[23:05] <popey> Bah
[23:05] <popey> Why can't fedora "evangelists" be nice?
[23:06] <popey> Is it in their DNA to be dicks to other free software projects?


[09:43] <apw> smb, ok the kernel packages are in, so meta can be uploaded, would you do the honours
[09:43] <smb> apw, sure
[09:45] <apw> smb, in the normal place (i hope)
[09:45] <smb> apw, yes it is
[09:56] <smb> apw, From the debdiff it seems to add new suggest/recommend entries to control.common but not in control. Unfortunately that gets easily lost in the git tree. It will fix itself on build, but it would confuse a bit. Sorry, just saw that now.
[09:57] <apw> smb, s'ok will have a look, rather get it right
[09:58] <smb> apw, Right, actually that would probably be also something to go into the changelog as that change fixes a bug
[10:00] <apw> smb, which bit fixes the bug?  the removal of the delta control -> control.common or the adding of the recommends?
[10:01] <smb> apw, The addition of recommends
[10:01] <smb> Recommend apport for linux-crashdump
[10:01] <smb>
[10:01] <smb>     Bug: #391026
[10:01] <apw> yeah will make sure thats in the changelog
[10:02] <apw> somehow it got lost that must be my erorr
[10:02] <apw> this is why you are a good check for my packages :)
[10:04] <smb> apw, Yeah, its always good to have the stupid/innocent second glance on it :)
[10:05] <apw> i have learned a useful way to do a last ditch check this time round ... thanks
[10:10] <apw> smb, ok ... updated the packages
[10:11] <smb> apw, Looks fine to me now. Then I start upload. You will push?
[10:11] <apw> smb, is pushed now (based on your ack there :)
[10:12] <smb> apw, Got it :)
[10:12] <apw> most excellent
[10:15] <smb> apw, ubuntu installer san says "accepted"
[10:16] <apw> hehe sounds good
[10:27] <TheMuso> apw: Speaking of the metapackage, I am happy to maintain a separate linux-ports metapackage, as the binary packages built from the meta won't be changing, and it means we update the kernels when the ports kernels are ready, separate from main arches. The metapackage is somewhat easier to maintain separately. :)
[10:28] <apw> i assume we are still doing that :)  as i don't see any ports arches in my lnux-meta upload
[10:28] <apw> and yes that cirtainly sounds reasonable to me
[10:28] <TheMuso> I know that, and since I wasn't asked about that... But thought I'd double check
[10:29] <apw> as they are likely to lag a little at least, cirtainly during this phase
[10:29] <TheMuso> yep
[10:29] <apw> i don't see how that package hurts the admins either as its a single package and has a constant name, no newing required
[10:30] <TheMuso> yep
[10:30]  * apw calls that a decision and a plan
[10:33] <apw> smb, ok i built something usnig the build tools .. .and its gone idle(last build failed)
[10:34] <apw> is there a toy for finding the logs?
[10:34] <smb> apw, There will be a build.log in the <series>-<arch> dir
[10:35] <smb> apw, the tool is ssh into the porter, I am afraid
[10:35] <apw> heh ok thanks :)
[10:47] <apw> smb, ok so how do i teach this thing about a group of machiens?
[10:48] <smb> apw, You add a file in .ubuild/groups that contains the short names (or archs) you want to have in that group. Then you can use than (file-)name instead of a machine
[10:48] <apw> nice
[10:49] <smb> If you use the name of an arch, it would take just the first host it can find doing that arch
[11:26] <apw> smb, does it know which ones are busy?
[11:26] <smb> apw, It will check for status files, yes
[11:27] <apw> so if i say build amd64 and my local builder is busy it will use ronne, sort of thign?
[11:27] <apw> how does it define the order?
[11:27] <smb> Err, no. not that intelligent
[11:27] <smb> It will just tell you I am busy
[11:27] <apw> damn
[11:27] <smb> I was thinking of that feature but bacame distracted
[11:38] <kdub> hello everyone
[12:18] <apw> kdub, hello there
[13:46] <pgraner> apw: ping
[13:46] <apw> pgraner, hi
[13:47] <pgraner> apw: i saw your were working on the noveau kernel code... it blew up on me while it was trying to dkms-ify, known issue?
[13:48] <apw> the nouveau stuff isn't in dkms?
[13:49] <pgraner> apw: no it was but when I installed the ppa it tried to compile the dkms code and it shit itself
[13:50] <pgraner> apw: I suspect the reason is cuz the code int he ppa was for .30 and the kernel I'm running is .31
[13:50] <apw> which ppa you using
[13:51] <pgraner> apw: https://edge.launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/nouveau
[13:53] <apw> hrm so you are using the DKMS stuff for nouveau from there, not seen that even, in there is also my .30 nouveau kernel.  most confusing
[13:53] <apw> but yes, the chances of that dkms carrying forward with the level of drm change which occured is low
[13:54] <apw> i'll have a look in a bit for the latest nouveau bits
[13:54] <pgraner> apw: do you have a .31 nouveau kernel by chance?
[13:54] <apw> not yet
[13:54] <pgraner> apw: no worries, I have a card that is supposed to work with it and was trying to test kms
[13:54] <apw> yep.  and a good test it would be
[13:55] <pgraner> apw: from now on when you update let me know and i'll run it thru its paces
[13:55] <apw> sure
[14:32] <NCommander> apw, I have a patch to fix the ia64 build (it got left out of Luke's tree because I accidently included config changes that were irreveleant to it). I sent a mail to the list but its stuck in a moderation queue
[14:33] <apw> heh ... sounds pretty normal ... annoying list
[14:33] <apw> ok so should i merge whats there, and wait for more, or just wait for more
[14:33] <NCommander> apw, its a single patch, I think you merge what's there, then pop on my patch (I'm uploading it now)
[14:34] <apw> NCommander, can do that
[14:34] <NCommander> apw, I plan to work on sparc this weekend, I have the hardware, just a hosed install ATM
[14:34] <apw> any idea what the sparc chroot issue is?
[14:34] <NCommander> glibc isn't too happy on the porting boxes
[14:34] <NCommander> Dunno why
[14:34] <NCommander> WOrks fine on mine
[14:34] <NCommander> (and my sparcs are two models earlier than whats in the DC)
[14:35] <NCommander> apw, anyway, I hope to simply the ports tree down to one sparc kernel, and two powerpc kernels
[14:35] <apw> hrm.  is anyone looking at it?  and i assume that affects the buildds too?
[14:35] <NCommander> Which should make life much much easier for touching ports (although I need to fire an email, we accidently dropped support for Itanium1 machines w/ intrepid, not sure if we care enough to readd it)
[14:35] <NCommander> apw, it only seems to affect dchroot, I'm not fully sure what's going on except it hangs hard
[14:36] <apw> don't we use dchroot for the buildd builds also?
[14:36] <NCommander> apw, sbuild
[14:36] <NCommander> apw, http://people.ubuntu.com/~mcasadevall/0002-UBUNTU-Upstream-Patch-to-fix-iommu-on-ia64-architect.patch
[14:37] <NCommander> apw, if you want, I can kick the kernel tree after its merged into a devirtualized PPA
[14:37] <apw> how do i get one of those setup i wonder, i could do with one which builds on all architectures for this very use
[14:38] <NCommander> apw, talk to IS, but devirtualized PPAs build on the normal distro machines so they can block things building ina rchive
[14:38] <apw> yeah ... but its the only way to do a proper test so someone in kernel should have one
[14:39] <NCommander> apw, indeed. I've had one for ages, but it was never an issue for the kernel team before because the ports tree and the mainline trees were separate
[14:39] <NCommander> Of course, now its an issue ;-)
[14:39] <apw> does yours have just one machine in it?
[14:39] <apw> as in one architecture?:
[14:39] <NCommander> apw, its an all or nothing thing
[14:39] <NCommander> Basically you get PPA only arches, or all of them
[14:39] <apw> ahh i see
[14:39] <NCommander> Yeah
[14:40] <NCommander> apw, hopefully with this upload, this will fix ia64 d-i, and get CD images building again (which is nice because I have an ia64 desktop ;-))
[14:40] <apw> yeah there is some hope
[14:42] <NCommander> apw, so everything except sparc should build now (sparc's config files need to be reworked, and the exclude modules updated, which is an annoying amount of drudge work)
[14:42] <NCommander> but once done, it should just keep on going
[14:43] <mdz> apw, it looks like the linux-doc patch didn't make it into 2.6.31, is it still pending?
[14:44] <apw> yes its still pending ... not forgotten, we should have no docs now is my understanding
[15:20] <SEJeff> Is there any sort of backport or whatnot of the creative x-fi modules for existing distros? Or should users wanting to use that soundcard with a release such as hardy just install their own kernels or manually build the modules?
[15:30] <Kmos> hi
[15:30] <Kmos> could someone have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/390292 ?
[15:30] <ubot3> Malone bug 390292 in console-setup "undefined kernel key code  ( in karmic a2)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[15:31] <Kmos> i can't boot my home machine because of the same problem
[15:31] <Kmos> i've upgraded from jaunty to karmic
[15:47] <apw> Kmos, that doesn't look like a kernel issue, they seem to be blaming some userspace code there.  i am supprised its stopping you booting
[15:49] <Kmos> apw: I tried to chmod -x console-setup and setupcon as cjwatson suggested but no luck
[15:50] <apw> you still get the messages?
[15:50] <Kmos> when I do dpkg-reconfigure console-setup it always show these warnings.
[15:50] <Kmos> yes, i'm not at home right now, but there aren't no updates that fix it, i can boot in recovery, but not in normal mode
[15:50] <Kmos> it hangs at setting console and font
[15:52] <apw> you could try putting an exit 0 at the top of the console-setup script to ensure it does not execute
[15:53] <apw> but its not obvious how setupcon could run if its -x
[15:54] <apw> you might need to do the same to console-screen.sh (add an exit 0 to the top there too)
[15:54] <apw> that also does stuff with the console if setupcon is not avaialble
[16:05] <cjwatson> Kmos: for the avoidance of doubt, I did *not* advise you to chmod -x /etc/init.d/console-setup and /bin/setupcon
[16:05] <cjwatson> Kmos: I advised you to use 'set -x', which is a command you put in a shell script to turn on execution tracing
[16:06] <cjwatson> Kmos: but, if you did 'chmod -x', then that pretty much proves that it isn't actually console-setup causing a problem after all, but rather whatever runs directly after console-setup, I'd have thought ...
[16:16] <Kmos> cjwatson: I didn't know about the 'set -x' command. sorry.. I made the -x and it also breaks. but the problem of dpkg-reconfigure console-setup giving that warning messages?
[16:16] <Kmos> apw: I need to try that at home
[16:16] <cjwatson> is entirely unrelated to your boot trouble, and not a high priority
[16:18] <Kmos> I don't know what's breaking it, because setting debug=vc and remove quiet and splash didn't show anything
[16:18] <Kmos> and dont know how to debug it better
[16:19] <Kmos> maybe the only solution is to reinstall :-(
[16:19] <cjwatson> find the thing after console-setup and debug that with set -x
[16:19] <cjwatson> (you'll need debug=vc and remove quiet/splash to get useful output there)
[16:20] <cjwatson> or debug /etc/init.d/rc with set -x to make absolutely sure of which script is being executed at the point of the hang
[16:20] <Kmos> I need to -x the script at rcS.d after the console-setup
[16:20] <Kmos> right?
[17:05] <manjo> apw, compcache source comes with scripts to load and unload the modules, do we need to ship these userspace scripts somehow ?
[17:06] <apw> i am sure we don't in the kernel
[17:06] <apw> i am sure whatever uses it knows how
[17:06] <apw> ubuiquity or whatever
[17:41] <cjwatson> manjo: it's already integrated in initramfs-tools and casper
[17:41] <manjo> k
[18:27] <pgraner> apw: ping, that audio bug from yesterday is 394014 FYI
[18:42] <mjg59> cking: Where does the source for the hpmini kerneld driver live? I'm sure I'd found it at some point, but now I can't
[18:52] <cking> mjg59: gimme 5...
[18:52] <mjg59> Ah, I've found a tarball with it
[18:55] <cking> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-hardy-lum.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/netbook-lpia-dennis
[18:55] <mjg59> Ah, wonderful
[18:56] <mjg59> Thanks!
[18:56] <cking> no probs
[18:56] <mjg59> Didn't catch that it was under a different branch
[18:56] <cking> yeah. What are you gonna do with it?
[18:56] <mjg59> Was planning on adapting it to rfkill
[18:57] <mjg59> Huh. git will give me the pretty version, but asking it for the raw blob gives me a 0 length file
[18:57] <cking> great!
[18:58] <cking> ?
[18:58] <mjg59> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-hardy-lum.git;a=blob;f=ubuntu/misc/hpmini.c;h=03b24dd7f18093bdae155b4df04d38616ffc1b62;hb=refs/heads/netbook-lpia-dennis
[18:58] <mjg59> Clicking on "raw" gives me nothing back
[18:58] <mjg59> And clicking on "HEAD" gives me 403
[18:59] <smb> mjg59, HEAD has the same results for me. But raw pops up a save window...
[19:00] <mjg59> smb: Does it actually save anything, or is it just sending headers and no content?
[19:00] <smb> mjg59, Ah, ok. I see
[19:02] <mjg59> Oh, hang on
[19:02] <mjg59> It's the same GUID as hp-wmi
[19:02] <mjg59> Heh. It's an entirely unnecessary driver :)
[19:22] <mmerlone> Hi all, I have a question regarding a mac address flip flop reported by arpwatch, is this a rigth place to ask?
[19:29] <james_w> could someone with the power please fish my mail from the kernel-team moderation queue?
[22:30] <robbiew> apw: you around?


[12:05] <seaLne> wow :( http://commercial-archive.com/129885.php
[12:06] <\sh> oh my
[12:06] <kwwii> nifty
[12:07] <kwwii> well done
[12:07] <kwwii> great marketing
[12:09] <\sh> this would never reach germanz
[12:09] <\sh> germany
[12:09] <kwwii> yeah, the germans are too freaky about their own past to allow that
[12:09] <kwwii> it is simply too provocative
[12:10] <DaSkreech> Well they seem to have gotten over it pretty quick
[12:10] <\sh> kwwii: if they were too freaky about their past, they would let this go through...but you know we are doing business with some of those countries...china e.g.
[12:10] <hunger> \sh: Who isen't?
[12:11] <kwwii> \sh: dude, that is an even worse reason
[12:11] <hunger> \sh: I bet swiss is doing business with china as well!
[12:11] <seaLne> one of the big problems with the media being companies or government controlled
[12:11] <kwwii> seeing as they are in the WTO I guess pretty much everyone is in onw way or another
[12:11] <\sh> hunger: but swiss is democratic , their people are deciding what's going on and what not...
[12:12] <kwwii> thank god for that
[12:12] <\sh> damn...did I just say, that germany is not democratic?
[12:12] <DaSkreech> seaLne: Huh?
[12:12] <DaSkreech> What else should they be?
[12:12] <kwwii> since I have lived here I have wondered why they still call it one, I guess because the people are so trained to just accept things that they don't notice
[12:13] <kwwii> :P
[12:13] <DaSkreech> \sh: it's the most stable democracy on earth actually
[12:13] <seaLne> DaSkreech: that is the problem, how to not be influenced and just report news
[12:13] <\sh> DaSkreech: germany?
[12:13] <DaSkreech> Yeah :)
[12:13] <\sh> DaSkreech: I live in the wrong germany then
[12:13] <kwwii> yeah, me too
[12:14] <\sh> democracy is something else..
[12:14] <DaSkreech> I never said it was good democracy. Just stable :)
[12:14] <kwwii> well, in a way, he is right
[12:14] <kwwii> it is very stable because every follows the line
[12:14] <\sh> yes...we have a chancellor
[12:14] <kwwii> so it is more a socio-cultural problem than a political one
[12:15] <seaLne> but the media tell the people that it is democratic so they think it is :-/
[12:15] <DaSkreech> Yeah legally it's really hard to undermine the system
[12:15] <DaSkreech> Well the main problem with democracy is that people have to be involved ;-)
[12:15] <DaSkreech> Kind of like FOSS
[12:16] <seaLne> but in FLOSS power corupts/ absolute power corrupts absolutly isn't quite as much a problem
[12:17] <DaSkreech> It will be once gnucash is responsible for doing all our taxes :)
[12:17] <\sh> seaLne: I think, if you do a lot in FOSS universe, you have power, and you can change things, right, but people who never worked like the man from the street, deciding about the man's future...I don't think this power is good
[12:19] <hunger> Hmmm... ubuntu based distris are *very* popular on distrowatch:-)
[12:19] <DaSkreech> Who is the man? Just for reference?
[12:19] <seaLne> everyone
[12:20] <DaSkreech> Democracy by itself isn't an answer
[12:20] <DaSkreech> No government by itself and virtue of design is an answer
[12:20] <DaSkreech> Like FOSS the only thing that really counts is action
[12:22] <\sh> DaSkreech: but action comes from the people, but there is actually no action in germany, only from the politicians...
[12:22] <seaLne> but reputations also grant power such as Linus' KDE/GNOME thing
[12:22] <DaSkreech> Right
[12:22] <\sh> seaLne: which is ok, because he will be punished by the people
[12:22] <DaSkreech> pffft
[12:23] <seaLne> \sh where i stay voting is almost pointless as so many people vote for the party their parents did ignoring policies etc
[12:23] <DaSkreech> You really think that if LInus said that he was using FluxBox or iceWM that all of a sudden distros would ship with it on by default?
[12:24] <seaLne> maybe, but personally i found the whole thing amusing the way it was blown out of porportions
[12:24] <\sh> DaSkreech: well, no...but no distro (neither novell/suse or redhat/fedora) switched to kde exclusivly...neither did ubuntu
[12:24] <\sh> DaSkreech: the opposite is going on :)
[12:25] <DaSkreech> Right so where is his power then? :)
[12:25] <seaLne> bah :)
[12:25] <\sh> DaSkreech: he does not let reiserfs4 in ;)
[12:26] <\sh> which is power
[12:26] <\sh> ok last cigarette really
[12:26] <kwwii> hehe
[12:26] <seaLne> the "benign" in "benign dictator" is open to interpritation :)
[12:27] <DaSkreech> No it's not
[12:27] <kwwii> benevolent
[12:27] <DaSkreech> It's defined by the dictator :)
[12:27] <seaLne> err ok, to much bier
[12:28] <\sh> whereas sabdfl can be overruled by the community ;)
[12:28] <seaLne> has he?
[12:28] <DaSkreech> Like getting KDE4 packages in Edgy :)
[12:29] <\sh> seaLne: I think there was one occasion where it happened
[12:29] <\sh> DaSkreech: where did you read this?
[12:29] <seaLne> tbh what ever it was that was good
[12:29] <DaSkreech> \sh: It's in the topic
[12:29] <kwwii> he is in no way stupid, but he definitely knows what he wants
[12:29] <kwwii> there will be kde4 packages
[12:30] <kwwii> but it will be nothing in the way of useable
[12:30] <seaLne> i haven't met him yet but i don't doubt he is inteligent
[12:30] <\sh> DaSkreech: hum? well, if there is a working kde4 installation in edgy, this won't be installed as main desktop...
[12:30] <crimsun> cf. the removal of the "naked" wallpaper in Warty
[12:30] <kwwii> not because of the integration to kubuntu but because of the general state of kde4
[12:30] <DaSkreech> Oh no I never said it would be
[12:31] <\sh> crimsun: he did remove it because of the community?
[12:31] <DaSkreech> crimsun: yeah what happened with that? he was to start back the calendar wasn't he?
[12:32] <crimsun> \sh: yes, a.k.a. "baby jesus cried"
[12:32] <\sh> crimsun: baby jesus?
[12:32] <\sh> doesn't matter
[12:32] <crimsun> \sh: it's the term that jeff waugh used to describe the community's interests overriding mark's direction
[12:33] <\sh> crimsun: oh
[12:33] <seaLne> which was likely to offend more peole than the image :-/
[12:33] <\sh> baby jesus..is not so annoying then "the crowd" or "the crazy masses" or "the user" ;)
[12:34] <DaSkreech> Won't someone think of the children?
[12:34] <\sh> DaSkreech: the pictures weren't offending
[12:34] <DaSkreech> Well apparently they were
[12:35] <seaLne> anything you do will offend someone
[12:35] <\sh> DaSkreech: my son (when he was 12) saw them, and he liked them, even my ex-wife
[12:35] <hunger> Anyone still got that wallpaper somewhere?
[12:35] <\sh> they are in the archives of warty and hoary I think
[12:35] <DaSkreech> I had the calendar so you got a new one every month
[12:35] <seaLne> yeah i can't actually remember what it looked like :)
[12:35] <\sh> ubuntu-calendar or something
[12:35] <DaSkreech> hunger: You can google it it's all over the plae
[12:36] <DaSkreech> Just ignore the one with all the bottoms kissing
[12:36] <kwwii> now you got my attention
[12:36] <hunger> DaSkreech: I am surprisingly bad at finding pictures of nude people on the net;-)
[12:36] <\sh> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ubuntu-calendar/
[12:37] <seaLne> and ignore the image on the first hit for "ubuntu naked" :)
[12:37] <seaLne> errr
[12:39] <hunger> baby jesus must be really sensitive to cry over such a picture.
[12:39] <kwwii> or american
[12:40] <\sh> hmm...what is with "hips don't lie" by shakira and whitecliff jean? that's erotic and oh wow...
[12:40] <\sh> she doesn't need to be naked at all, just her belly
[12:41] <\sh> ok...this is kubuntu-devel...
[12:41] <\sh> we need a welcome sound of shakira, with a "hips don't lie" splash video
[12:41] <\sh> I'll mail her for approval ;)
[12:41] <DaSkreech> #kubuntu-devel-offtopic
[12:42] <hunger> \sh: Sounds like you would even volunteer to record it;-)
[12:42] <nixternal> http://kubuntuforums.net/mkportal/modules/gallery/album/a_35.png   <- this is kmon's desktop...i want it...has anyone seen it?
[12:42] <nixternal> i have to have that wallpaper ;)
[12:43] <\sh> hunger: I have the video ...
[12:43] <\sh> and we need one video splash of robbie williams
[12:44] <jpatrick> nixternal: can i have it
[12:44] <\sh> to be d'accord ;)
[12:44] <nixternal> if i can find it you can have it ;)
[12:44] <\sh> ok..now enough of that...going to bed
[12:45] <\sh> cu folks...
[12:45] <nixternal> i have been searching...i did a search on webshots, google, you name it...i did however manage to see alot of the people in here...their ugly faces ;)
[12:45] <jpatrick> cya \sh
[12:45] <nixternal> \sh: nite
[12:45] <nixternal> doh
[12:45] <seaLne> nixternal: :P
[12:45] <jpatrick> oh I thought you had it
[12:45] <nixternal> ok kwwii stop holding back on the uber graphics...lets see um :)
[12:46] <kwwii> I think I should make a shakira icon
[12:47] <jpatrick> lol
[12:49] <DaSkreech> :-)
[12:49] <linuxmonkey> lol
[12:49] <nixternal> jpatrick: i found it
[12:49] <nixternal> muhahaha...and it was easy to find...of all places too
[12:49] <linuxmonkey> nixternal: what you find
[12:49] <nixternal> http://www.kde-look.org    search for it ;)
[12:50] <jpatrick> w00t
[12:50] <nixternal> kmon's wallpaper
[12:50] <nixternal> it is freakin' amazing
[12:51] <kwwii> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=18803
[12:51] <kwwii> ?
[12:51] <kwwii> lol
[12:51] <linuxmonkey> i like http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=30970
[12:51] <nixternal> hahaha
[12:52] <nixternal> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=31556
[12:52] <nixternal> that is it ^^
[12:53] <kwwii> I like the multi-style better
[12:53] <kwwii> erm, the middle screenshot in those pics
[12:53] <kwwii> where one sees more of the logo
[12:53] <kwwii> the angle is better
[12:53] <nixternal> ya
[12:54] <linuxmonkey> is there an easy way to get transparency without XGL
[01:09] <Tonio_> linuxmonkey: if there was a way, everyone would use this :)
[01:10] <kwwii> :p
[01:10] <linuxmonkey> u use xgl before
[01:10] <linuxmonkey> ?
[01:10] <kwwii> xgl sucks
[01:11] <linuxmonkey> lol
[01:11] <kwwii> oh, yeah..I am sorry...I have seen people who have systems that run it halfway decently...only I don't have one or the money to buy one ro the time to figure out which one, from the ones I can buy, will work well
[01:11] <linuxmonkey> its not very stable is it
[01:12] <DaSkreech> try air :)
[01:12] <linuxmonkey> lol
[01:18] <kwwii> what I do not get with the whole 3d crap in linux is this: why do something that is just half as good as others have already done
[01:19] <kwwii> yippee...you can make a window wobble to the point of stupidity
[01:21] <DaSkreech> kwwii: Huh?
[01:22] <linuxmonkey> i dont want the wobble i want the transparency
[01:24] <kwwii> DaSkreech: well, there is nothing innovative about XGL, AIXGL, ad nauseum...it is about catching up, and that in poor manner
[01:24] <DaSkreech> Huh?
[01:24] <DaSkreech> What part of it is catching up?
[01:24] <kwwii> well, shadows, and animated windows
[01:25] <DaSkreech> Well this is 3D accelerated Shadows :)
[01:26] <kwwii> everything else that I have seen in that area simply goes too far
[01:26] <kwwii> who wants to watch a movie on the edge of a cube?
[01:26] <DaSkreech> A few folks
[01:26] <DaSkreech> THey are still in the new area :)
[01:26] <linuxmonkey> kwwii: i will agree that is stupid
[01:26] <DaSkreech> Wait till dbus gets thrown in the mix
[01:27] <kwwii> actually, the idea of representing the desktops a faces on a cube is interesting
[01:27] <kwwii> but too much
[01:27] <kwwii> keep it simpler
[01:28] <kwwii> people cannot remeber more than 3 things at time
[01:28] <DaSkreech> Yeah the plugins are a bit strange but as I said you can do some fun stuff once you think about it
[01:29] <DaSkreech> Like the rain effect happening when it actually rains
[01:31] <kwwii> erm
[01:31] <kwwii> I think we fundamentally disagree
[01:31] <kwwii> :-)
[01:32] <kwwii> I mean, if it is raining outside already, how much does it help to make it rain on your desktop
[01:32] <kwwii> ?
[01:32] <DaSkreech> Well the upside is you can make compiz as simple as you like
[01:32] <linuxmonkey> or as complex as you wanr
[01:32] <linuxmonkey> want
[01:32] <kwwii> well, we will see what happens
[01:33] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[01:33] <kwwii> I will be the first of a long series of things, if my experience proves correct
[01:33] <kwwii> and in one sense, it is the first to do what it has done
[01:33] <DaSkreech> So what do you mean it's trying to catch up?
[01:34] <kwwii> DaSkreech: well, OSX had amazing visual effects, and I think that a lot of the inspiration came out of making something that was one step beyond what they did
[01:36] <kwwii> the inspiration is good, the implementation is the first step down a long road, I agree, but the way it is used and has been shown has not capitalized on any really new idea which expands functionality and increases simplicity
[01:38] <DaSkreech> Well they actually do have some good stuff in there
[01:39] <DaSkreech> Like visual cues to actions and placements
[01:40] <DaSkreech> Some of it is subtle but then thats what people like about the OSX attention
[01:44] <DaSkreech> Woah Tenor is pretty cool
[01:46] <kwwii> yeah
[01:49] <DaSkreech> Course it's been pretty silent
[01:50] <kwwii> yeah
[01:50] <kwwii> Scott works for SAP and has been really busxy in recent times
[01:50] <kwwii> busy
[01:51] <DaSkreech> Ah :) So he's the lifeblood of tenor?
[01:51] <kwwii> it seems so
[01:52] <kwwii> I will not hold my breath for that one
[01:52] <DaSkreech> That's not good :( there are no docs on it or anything
[01:52] <kwwii> it is a great idea, like teleportation
[01:53] <DaSkreech> or Knoware or GISDesktop :(
[01:53] <kwwii> kinda
[01:55] <DaSkreech> So.. there will be the possibility of apt-getting kde4 pkgs during the Edgy Cycle?
[01:55] <DaSkreech> Or will they just be for Kubuntu Devs to test?
[01:58] <toma> DaSkreech: i dont think it will be apt-gettable, but maybe someone will put up an .deb on a userspace
[01:58] <DaSkreech> ok. That sounds better
[01:58] <DaSkreech> I guess you would need two installs to test with though
[01:58] <kwwii> from what I have heard from Riddell, there will be apt-get-able packages
[01:58] <kwwii> or officially posted ones
[01:58] <DaSkreech> You couldn't select KDE3 from KDE4 at the KDM
[01:59] <kwwii> but they will not promise in any way to be usable
[01:59] <kwwii> no, nothing like thast
[01:59] <kwwii> that
[01:59] <DaSkreech> yeah doesn't sound feasible
[01:59] <kwwii> oh, I imagine that kubuntu will have the best packages around
[02:00] <kwwii> for kde4
[02:00] <linuxmonkey> hell ya
[02:00] <DaSkreech> Since Suse is apparently confused now
[02:00] <toma> kwwii: i dont think kde will be ready to have something packaged during edgys cycle
[02:00] <kwwii> it is, in the meantime, become the reference distribution of KDE
[02:00] <kwwii> toma: yeah, that is what I meant
[02:01] <toma> DaSkreech: suse confused?
[02:01] <kwwii> well, they layed me off, so they must be out of their minds
[02:02] <DaSkreech> toma: I'm gnomish? kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk??
[02:02] <linuxmonkey> i remember when red hat and others were #1 on distro watch but ubuntu is 1000~ ahead of other distro's
[02:02] <DaSkreech> lol
[02:02] <kwwii> then again, the compensation for 7 years of work was pretty good
[02:02] <kwwii> so screw
[02:02] <DaSkreech> ok nothing more bad to say about suse then :)
[02:02] <kwwii> suse
[02:02] <kwwii> suse does not exist anymore anyway
[02:02] <toma> DaSkreech: there are still some top hackers paid by suse, so they know exactly howto package kde.
[02:02] <kwwii> there is only novell and opensuse
[02:02] <DaSkreech> Probably all been said already and at very loud volumes
[02:03] <kwwii> suse is a product made from opensuse (but the website design is still mine)
[02:05] <kwwii> toma: yes, they have 4 kde developers still...they did not fire them because they realized (shortle before they did fire them) that they have lots of support contracts for the enterprise server and most of them run kde
[02:06] <kwwii> once those contracts wear out, we'll see what happens
[02:06] <kwwii> they are certainly pushing in the G direction
[02:06] <toma> kwwii: interesting angle
[02:07] <kwwii> toma: yeah, the inside one
[02:08] <toma> kwwii: we will see what happen, i do hope they stay active for kde whatever the outcome is.
[02:08] <kwwii> I do too, lots of the developers there are my good friends
[02:08] <DaSkreech> back :)
[02:09] <kwwii> see you all in two days, when I am back online
[02:09] <DaSkreech> ye
[02:09] <DaSkreech> How long is paris?
[02:09] <kwwii> bye
[02:09] <kwwii> till next saturday
[02:09] <DaSkreech> OK
[02:09] <DaSkreech> Sleep well
[02:09] <kwwii> 7 days, all in all
[02:10] <kwwii> night
[02:16] <DaSkreech> Good night
[04:53] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: Hello :-)
[04:53] <Hobbsee> hi DaSkreech
[04:53] <DaSkreech> Guess what I've been reading :)
[04:53] <Hobbsee> what?
[04:53] <Hobbsee> my wiki page, or something scary?
[04:54] <DaSkreech> http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/
[04:54] <Hobbsee> ah yes
[04:54] <Hobbsee> what did you think of it?
[04:54] <DaSkreech> I love how it assumes that all men are Jerky eating meat lovers :)
[04:54] <Hobbsee> haha
[04:56] <DaSkreech> there are some good points and some stuff kind goes against the entire argument
[04:56] <Hobbsee> true
[04:56] <DaSkreech> Are you on Stumbleupon?
[04:56] <Hobbsee> it's not perfect, some of it i dont agree with - as in, women arent made of crystal either - well, i'm not at least, dont know about anything else
[04:57] <DaSkreech> Yeah I know
[04:57] <DaSkreech> http://www.stumbleupon.com/url/www.linuxchix.org/
[04:57] <nixternal> woohoo
[04:58] <DaSkreech> *pumps fist*
[04:58] <DaSkreech> Woo Hoo?
[04:58] <Hobbsee> ha!  @ the comments, particularly the first one
[04:58] <nixternal> haha
[04:58] <DaSkreech> Yeah I know :)
[04:59] <DaSkreech> Great isn't it?
[04:59] <DaSkreech> They have a Tech Chyxs group :-)
[05:00] <DaSkreech> http://myrtti.stumbleupon.com/ is the founder
[05:06] <Hobbsee> page not found.  odd
[05:07] <Hobbsee> ah here we are
[05:08] <Hobbsee> wow, there are a lot of scholarships etc around - they really seem to want women in there..
[05:08] <DaSkreech> Where?
[05:11] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: further down the site
[05:11] <Hobbsee> rofl @ one of the FAQ bits
[05:11] <Hobbsee> 1.7.
[05:11] <Hobbsee> Is this list for picking up men/geekgrrls?
[05:11] <Hobbsee>
[05:11] <Hobbsee> No. Next question?
[05:13] <DaSkreech> haha :)
[05:14] <DaSkreech> One of the things I don't get about the Linux Women site is saying that you shouldn't focus on technical details
[05:15] <DaSkreech> thats fine but then they are saying that for an entire LUG
[05:15] <DaSkreech> Isn't the point of a LUG to kind of have fellowship and to get more technical details?
[05:17] <Hobbsee> i dont know, it seems kinda weird to me too...
[05:17] <Hobbsee> i see they do have a programming list though
[05:18] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, worse case , you dont like the list and un-subscribe ;)
[05:18] <imbrandon> btw morning all
[05:18] <Hobbsee> true
[05:18] <Hobbsee> heya imbrandon
[05:18] <DaSkreech> G'moring
[05:19] <Hobbsee> i did that from the ubuntu women one
[05:19] <imbrandon> breakfast time bbiab
[05:19] <Hobbsee> dont tempt me..
[05:19] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: where are you?
[05:19] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:19] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, home ....
[05:19] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: no, what country?
[05:19] <imbrandon> USA ( yea yea i know, i'm a night owl, i just woke up, so its still breakfast to me )
[05:20] <Hobbsee> that's what i thought, from the accent.
[05:20] <imbrandon> heh
[05:20] <DaSkreech> Oui Oui!
[05:20] <Hobbsee> an american that follows AU timezones...
[05:20] <imbrandon> yea Kansas City USA
[05:20] <Hobbsee> interesting.
[05:20] <imbrandon> hahahahah yup
[05:21] <Hobbsee> ooh fun
[05:21] <DaSkreech> Long commute
[05:21] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: there was talk of jobs in germany last night, if you were watching
[05:21] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea , and raphink told me of some in france too
[05:21] <Hobbsee> nice
[05:21] <DaSkreech> :-)
[05:22] <imbrandon> heheh come on up to EU ;)
[05:22] <DaSkreech> Cmon Hobbsee we'll write that POS and rule the world!!
[05:22] <imbrandon> its nice and warm on the med sea
[05:22] <imbrandon> all year
[05:22] <imbrandon> no more blue fingers
[05:22] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:22] <Hobbsee> yeah, dont tempt me.  i probably need to stay where i am if i want to continue my optoelectronics degree
[05:22] <imbrandon> true
[05:23] <imbrandon> but once done what are you gonna do ?
[05:23] <Hobbsee> besides, i'm still *just* underage
[05:23] <imbrandon> hahah Hobbsee i wasent talking tomarrow or nothing ;)
[05:23] <Hobbsee> i dont know - i might end up doing a programming degree as well, so i could work in both fields...
[05:23] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:23] <DaSkreech> :-D
[05:23] <Hobbsee> it seems a shame to get a D or a HD - which is what i think i got in that paper, and then not continue on with computing...
[05:23] <nixternal> [22:22]  <Hobbsee> that's what i thought, from the accent.
[05:24] <nixternal> ^^what?
[05:24] <nixternal> imbrandon don't have an accent ;)
[05:24] <imbrandon> nixternal, VoIP
[05:24] <Hobbsee> nixternal: from imbrandon's accent
[05:24] <Hobbsee> he has a slight one :P
[05:24] <imbrandon> heh
[05:24] <nixternal> everyone outside of the midwest has an accent ;)
[05:24] <Hobbsee> actually, theMuso has more of an accent that imbrandon, to my ears :P
[05:24] <Hobbsee> and he's in my state!
[05:24] <nixternal> hehe
[05:24] <nixternal> oh lord
[05:25] <nixternal> pak the ka in the front yad
[05:25] <imbrandon> yea themuso i have a hard time understanding some times
[05:25] <nixternal> getta bea at the bah
[05:25] <Hobbsee> same here, not sure why - maybe dodgy mic or something - and there's usually music in the background too
[05:25] <nixternal> prolly from the outback ;)
[05:25] <nixternal> hehe
[05:25] <imbrandon> yea i think its the music ;)
[05:25] <Hobbsee> nah, theMuso's in the city...
[05:26] <nixternal> lol
[05:26] <nixternal> DaSkreech: wher yiou from?
[05:26] <imbrandon> dunno after i eat i'll be on TS
[05:26] <DaSkreech> Umm
[05:26] <DaSkreech> Close by :)
[05:26] <nixternal> hehe
[05:26] <Hobbsee> another darned exam tomorrow :(
[05:26] <imbrandon> ouch
[05:26] <DaSkreech> iSN'T IT Sunday?
[05:27] <nixternal> 1.5 hours it will be
[05:27] <nixternal> tomorrow will be monday for her though
[05:27] <imbrandon> in AU it will be for another 11 hours
[05:27] <DaSkreech> Isn't that against the law in non-jewish countries?
[05:27] <imbrandon> lol
[05:27] <nixternal> hahaha
[05:27] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: yes, it is
[05:27] <DaSkreech> Just checking :0
[05:27] <nixternal> imbrandon you know where you can stick that pointer ;)
[05:27] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: i dont have much choice - exam is on monday morning
[05:28] <imbrandon> hah
[05:28] <DaSkreech> Cmon this is the chitchat before the conference :)
[05:28] <nixternal> everyone in here is in france anyways ;)
[05:28] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: actually, that's against the law for the jews, not everyone else.
[05:28] <DaSkreech> Unless you are presenting in which case. Get to writing!!!
[05:28] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:28] <nixternal> nows your turn to op yourself and boot Riddell-awa while he isn't lookin' :)
[05:28] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: Well it would be Friday to Saturday for them
[05:28] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: true
[05:28] <nixternal> haha
[05:29] <nixternal> if Hobbsee had ops, i guarantee she would have hopped on that one though ;0
[05:29] <nixternal> doh
[05:29] <Hobbsee> nixternal: nah, i like booting other people :P
[05:29] <nixternal> i guess i was wrong...thats a first ;)
[05:29] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:29] <nixternal> lol
[05:29] <DaSkreech> Sooooo Riddell isn't a person?
[05:29] <nixternal> he is a bot ;)
[05:29] <Hobbsee> nixternal: he can always be horrible and call me in the middle of the night - so it wouldnt be a good idea to get him annoyed at me :P
[05:29] <nixternal> hehe
[05:29] <Hobbsee> no, Riddell *is* a person.
[05:29] <nixternal> true
[05:30] <Hobbsee> that's if i forget to turn  my phone off
[05:30] <imbrandon> probbly wouldent make mom / dad happy
[05:31] <Hobbsee> they dont know
[05:31] <nixternal> alrighty...im on bug watch...go go go !!!
[05:31] <imbrandon> thats also why people on the internet only get my cell phone number ( that way it can goto voice mail if i'm asleep )
[05:31] <Hobbsee> yeah, i dont usually answer my home phone....
[05:31] <nixternal> i don't answer any phone..you call me you get screened
[05:32] <nixternal> my own mother and father get screened when they call me
[05:32] <imbrandon> lol
[05:32] <imbrandon> callerid man
[05:32] <imbrandon> get into the 20th century
[05:32] <imbrandon> lol
[05:32] <nixternal> #50174
[05:32] <nixternal> thats a good one
[05:32] <nixternal> hmmm...no ubugto
[05:32] <nixternal> bug 50174
[05:32] <imbrandon> malone #50174
[05:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50174 in ubiquity "Ubunru Dapper Desktop. Installer crashed "/ xfs", "swap" and "/home xfs"" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50174
[05:32] <Hobbsee> Ubugtu: sure there is
[05:32] <nixternal> wake up
[05:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50174 in ubiquity "Ubunru Dapper Desktop. Installer crashed "/ xfs", "swap" and "/home xfs"" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50174
[05:32] <nixternal> Ubunru
[05:32] <nixternal> lol
[05:33] <Hobbsee> you just cant spell :P
[05:33] <DaSkreech> So Bill Gates stepped down
[05:33] <imbrandon> i'm telling you the only reason i have a computer is for kcalc and spell check
[05:33] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:33] <nixternal> ya DaSkreech so they say
[05:33] <imbrandon> DaSkreech, in 2008
[05:34] <Hobbsee> we werent allowed calculators in our computing exams yesterday...
[05:34] <DaSkreech> nixternal: No He said it. It's on the microsoft site
[05:34] <imbrandon> hehe write one ;)
[05:34] <DaSkreech> lol
[05:34] <Hobbsee> my goodness, this guy is a twit.
[05:34] <nixternal> he makes more money with the bill and melinda gates fund then he does with microsoft...microsoft has reported back to back fiscal losses which has never heppaned before
[05:34] <DaSkreech> Alt+Space
[05:34] <DaSkreech> Insta Calc :)
[05:34] <imbrandon> DaSkreech, only gradulay over the next 2 years ( july 2008 )
[05:34] <nixternal> he is stepping down on paper..that is it
[05:35] <Hobbsee> bleh.  all MS stuff can go to k-o
[05:35] <nixternal> all ms stuff can go to the gb
[05:35] <nixternal> garbage bin ;)
[05:35] <imbrandon> i hate k-o becouse of the "clique" ........... did i say that out loud ?
[05:35] <imbrandon> anyhow breakfast time
[05:36] <imbrandon> bbiab
[05:36] <Hobbsee> well, i could have said that it all can go to /dev/null...
[05:36] <imbrandon>  /dev/zero
[05:37] <Hobbsee> whichever
[05:43] <DaSkreech> can I change the name of a wiki page?
[05:44] <Hobbsee> probably, no idea how to
[05:53] <imbrandon> make a new one  copy/paste old one, then #redirect the old to the new
[05:54] <imbrandon> thatway bookmarks arent messed up either
[05:54] <DaSkreech> Hmm ok
[05:54] <DaSkreech> don't think any one has bookmarked mine though :-)
[06:34] <Hobbsee> BOO!
[06:35] <Hobbsee> hey waggling DaSkreech
[06:50] <DaSkreech> Hi testy Hobbsee
[06:51] <Hobbsee> -s
[06:51] <robotgeek> Hobbsee: BANG!
[06:51] <Hobbsee> down boy!
[06:51] <imbrandon> lol
[06:52] <robotgeek> Hobbsee: heh, how are you doing?
[06:52] <Hobbsee> robotgeek: studying :(  chemistry, unfortunately
[06:53] <robotgeek> its ALIVE!
[06:53] <imbrandon> heh
[06:53] <imbrandon> hrm
[06:54] <imbrandon> isnt there a completely gnu ubuntu flavr ?
[06:54] <DaSkreech> hmm
[06:54] <robotgeek> DaSkreech: you have a rename action in the "More actions" menu
[06:54] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: i think there was talk of one, yes
[06:54] <DaSkreech> Drat you broke the three letter words starting with h trend
[06:54] <imbrandon> hek
[06:54] <DaSkreech> imbrandon: #ubuntu-libre
[06:54] <DaSkreech> ham
[06:55] <DaSkreech> robotgeek: Scuse me?
[06:55] <robotgeek> DaSkreech: on the wiki, i see you were asking a while ago
[06:55] <DaSkreech> robotgeek: ah thank you very much :)
[06:55] <DaSkreech> Quick poll
[06:56] <DaSkreech> What do you think of the name GISWhere?
[06:56] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:56] <Hobbsee> only played it for one afternoon
[06:57] <DaSkreech> You won I take it?
[06:57] <Hobbsee> oh yes, i won eventually, once i got the hang of the game.
[06:57] <Hobbsee> we were playing with paperclips though
[06:57] <imbrandon> heh
[06:57] <Hobbsee> i wouldnt play with money - too much chance
[06:57] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, casino's are great , i made a ton on craps in reno
[06:58] <Hobbsee> i'd have to play somethign like spades, or maybe bridge/five hundred (with a little more practice), with a decent partner to bet money
[06:58] <Hobbsee> never been in a casino legitimately...
[06:58] <imbrandon> ohhhh spades
[06:59] <imbrandon> robotgeek, but if you look at it as entertainment its ok
[06:59] <imbrandon> if you go looking to make money then yes your in for trubble
[06:59] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: There is an age limit on casinos?
[06:59] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: yes, 18
[06:59] <imbrandon> DaSkreech, 21 in the USA
[06:59] <DaSkreech> You can't go in?
[06:59] <DaSkreech> Or just can't play?
[07:00] <imbrandon> cant go in here
[07:00] <imbrandon> unless your 21
[07:00] <imbrandon> and even then only certain cities/states its legal
[07:00] <Hobbsee> both
[07:00] <DaSkreech> Neat  :-)
[07:00] <imbrandon> las vegas and reno being two bigest in the usa
[07:00] <DaSkreech> I know
[07:00] <imbrandon> that its legal in
[07:01] <DaSkreech> Third structure that can be seen from outer space with the naked eye
[07:01] <imbrandon> whats that ? the mgmgrand ?
[07:01] <Hobbsee> actually, in one i was near before, it said that any minors who went in and won anything - they'd have to give the winnings back to the hotel
[07:01] <DaSkreech> o Las Vegas
[07:01] <DaSkreech> Jackasses
[07:01] <imbrandon> ahh vegas is a city not realy a structure ;)
[07:02] <DaSkreech> Man made thingy then
[07:02] <imbrandon> heh yea becosue its a ton of neon in the middle of the 100's of miles of dessert
[07:03] <imbrandon> it would be like a major city right in the dead center of the outback in au , pretty easy to see from space ;)
[07:03] <DaSkreech> :-)
[07:03] <DaSkreech> So About my poll
[07:04] <DaSkreech> What do you think?
[07:04] <imbrandon> its looking better , i'm not a GIS buff as i said before but for those that are its looking good
[07:05] <DaSkreech> Well I was asking about the name change
[07:05] <DaSkreech> to GISwhere
[07:05] <imbrandon> right that was included
[07:05] <DaSkreech> Everyone pronounces GIS as G-I-S
[07:05] <imbrandon> in the "looking better"
[07:05] <DaSkreech> Cool ;)
[07:05] <imbrandon> DaSkreech, yea i know , i know a few GIS majors in school
[07:06] <DaSkreech> Just wanted to make sure there wasn't the smell of "It's Gouda!!" about it
[07:06] <DaSkreech> I may want to speak with them imbrandon :)
[07:06] <DaSkreech> linux users?
[07:06] <imbrandon> i know "about" gis as in what it is etc , just dont use it personaly nor have a desire to , but all in all the spec looks ok
[07:06] <imbrandon> DaSkreech, most are yes
[07:07] <DaSkreech> Sweet :)
[07:07] <imbrandon> i'll drop them a note at our next lug meeting to have a look at it
[07:07] <imbrandon> ( july 5th )
[07:07] <DaSkreech> Cool
[07:08] <DaSkreech> I'll try and have it more eloquent then
[07:08] <imbrandon> but rember these guys arent programers / codemonkeys , they are GIS users ;)
[07:08] <DaSkreech> I did a bunch of research on it this week and I think that my main problem is now bigger and my minor problems are now smaller
[07:08] <DaSkreech> Don't know how I should feel about that
[07:09] <DaSkreech> imbrandon: They don't need to be. Code seems to be the least of my problems
[07:09] <imbrandon> in other words they can give you input most likely but probbly wont be able to help implment it
[07:10] <DaSkreech> Precisely what I'm starving for
[07:10] <imbrandon> nah probbly not
[07:10] <imbrandon> just keep the wiki upto date
[07:11] <DaSkreech> Cool :)
[07:11] <DaSkreech> Well since the family is ignoring me I'll be off to bed
[07:11] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, who is znarl ?
[07:11] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: no idea, check on LP
[07:12] <Hobbsee> where's he mentioned?
[07:12] <imbrandon> TS
[07:12] <Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/people/karl-tilbury
[07:12] <Hobbsee> oh
[07:12] <Hobbsee> canonical person - LP stuff
[07:13] <imbrandon> ahh cool
[07:13] <imbrandon> just wondering , always on TS and never talks ;)
[07:13] <imbrandon> gah i need to update my ssh key(s) on LP
[07:14] <DaSkreech> Is there going to be a site tracking paris?
[07:14] <imbrandon> gnight DaSkreech
[07:14] <DaSkreech> Or just kind of a report at the end?
[07:14] <imbrandon> there is a wiki and TS that will be updated continuslyu
[07:14] <imbrandon> afaik
[07:14] <DaSkreech> alright
[07:15] <DaSkreech> Night
[07:15] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: Study!
[07:18] <Hobbsee> that's why i'm not talking much..
[08:03] <mornfall> morning
[08:03] <mornfall> --> shower :]
[08:52] <seaLne> oops kubuntu team wasn't notified for konq bugs
[09:23] <mornfall> well, breakfast
[09:23] <mornfall> anyone with ideas how one gets from terminal 2B to the hotel? :-)
[09:24] <imbrandon> morning mornfall and nope not i
[09:34] <raphink_sleep> hi mornfall
[09:34] <raphink_sleep> welcome to paris
[09:34] <raphink_sleep> I guess ;)
[09:34] <raphink_sleep> wish I were there, too ;)
[09:36] <crimsun> I thought you /were/, raphink
[09:36] <raphink_sleep> no :-
[09:36] <raphink_sleep> :(
[09:36] <mornfall> i'm still home :P
[09:36] <raphink_sleep> I couldn't make it as I have to work this week
[09:36] <mornfall> i'm landing around 9pm
[09:37] <raphink_sleep> ok
[09:37] <raphink_sleep> where is home for you mornfall?
[09:37] <mornfall> brno, czech republic
[09:37] <raphink_sleep> crimsun: I'd have loved to come but I began my new work on thursday so I couldn't really take vacation right now
[09:48] <crimsun> raphink_sleep: completely understood, similar position w/ work
[09:50] <raphink_sleep> ok
[10:44] <mornfall> blaha
[11:44] <mornfall> --> paris
[11:44] <mornfall> laters :)
[11:45] <imbrandon> l8tr mornfall
[11:55] <toma> morning
[12:01] <Tonio_> hey guys
[12:01] <Tonio_> yop toma
[12:02] <toma> hi Tonio_
[12:03] <Tonio_> especially to find one compatible with linux
[12:03] <freeflying|away> why don't you use usb's?
[12:05] <\sh> moins
[12:05] <ajmitch_> hi \sh
[12:07] <Tonio_> freeflying|away: I don't want to use a dongle to avoid pluging and unpluging every day....
[12:07] <Tonio_> I use bluetooth a lot so I need something embedded
[12:07] <Tonio_> and since my laptop doesn't (I'm surprise but that's it) have a minipci slot, I have to go with pcmcia
[12:07] <Tonio_> hey stephan
[12:08] <Tonio_> I will probably buy this one : http://www.quickspot.nl/images/cn-504-2.jpg (sitecom cn-504)
[12:09] <Tonio_> freeflying|away: reported to work on certain linux distros, so I assume I will be able to find a driver
[12:09] <Tonio_> freeflying|away: but if someone know a plug and play one, I'm ready to listen ;)
[12:10] <Tonio_> my stupidity had been to neglect the bluetooth availability when I bought my vaio...
[12:20] <freeflying|away> Tonio_: I'd tell you use a use one, and put it inside your notebook  :)
[01:01] <\sh> I never needed bluetooth
[01:03] <Tonio__> freeflying|away: a "use" one ?
[01:03] <Tonio__> \sh: you should give a shot ;) that's very usefull
[01:03] <freeflying|away> Tonio__:  s/use/usb
[01:03] <Tonio__> freeflying|away: how do you put it inside a notebook ? ^^
[01:03] <\sh> Tonio__: I have a bluetooth keyboard at work (MS one) but it didn't work
[01:04] <Tonio__> \sh: did you set HIDD_ENABLED=1 in /etc/default/bluez-utils ?
[01:05] <Tonio__> I just did that and my mouse worked directly after a reboot ( or a complete reload of hte bluetooth kernel modules)
[01:05] <freeflying|away> Tonio__: open your notebook, and put it inside, usb BT adpator need few space  :)
[01:05] <Tonio__> freeflying|away: mouarf ^_^
[01:06] <\sh> Tonio_: no
[01:06] <Tonio_> \sh: you should eventually try ;)
[01:06] <\sh> Tonio_: will test it on monday
[01:06] <Tonio_> I would eventually suggest to set this by default with edgy
[01:07] <Tonio_> \sh: the only problem with this is that ALL hid bluetooth hardware will work on your laptop ;)
[01:08] <Tonio_> \sh: so expect no other devices are arround ;)
[01:08] <Tonio_> \sh: the other way is to set a direct connection using the mac address of your keyboard
[01:09] <\sh> Tonio_: that's bad..because everybody else has bluetooth keyboards as well ;)
[01:10] <Tonio_> so once the option is activated, and you have rebooted, perform an hidd scan to find the hardware and force the connection to only this one in /etc/default/bluez-utils
[01:10] <uniq> sounds like we need a GUI for that. :)
[01:10] <Tonio_> if you do this, only this one will work, and that should be okay (need to reboot again to activate this of course)
[01:10] <Tonio_> that's the way I do
[01:10] <Tonio_> uniq: yes, kde-bluetooth doesn't allow to manage this
[01:11] <\sh> reboot?
[01:11] <\sh> we are on linux...not windows
[01:11] <Tonio_> \sh: or unload and reload bluetooth modules
[01:11] <uniq> doesn't restart bluez-utils do it?
[01:11] <Tonio_> \sh: for some reasons I don't figure, restarting bluez-utils doesn't work
[01:11] <Tonio_> only rebooting allowed me to get the changes working
[01:11] <Tonio_> I spent one hour yesterday trying to understand this without success
[01:12] <uniq> I got my bluetooth handsfree to play sounds from my laptop some days ago, useless, but cool :)
[01:12] <Tonio_> \sh: another solution is to unload bluetooth modules and reload them, then restarting bluez-utils
[01:12] <\sh> Tonio_: that's more linux alike ;)
[01:12] <Tonio_> but simply restarting bluez-utils daemon doesn't work.... sounds weird but that's it
[01:13] <Tonio_> \sh: I generally tell the people arround me to reboot since it is easier for them :)
[01:13] <Tonio_> I just forgot you were \sh lol ^^
[01:14] <\sh> Tonio_: oh boy ;)
[01:14] <Tonio_> I generaly reboot since it is quicker sometimes that finding the required module :)
[01:14] <Tonio_> but that's a very bad way to do !
[01:15] <imbrandon> ;)
[01:16] <Tonio_> \sh: if you find the response to "why changing bluez-utils options doesn't work when restarting bluez-utils service ?", I would be glad to listen to your explanation ;)
[01:17] <\sh> I would say bluetooth is not ready for action ;)
[01:17] <\sh> but I need to have a closer look on this ;)
[01:17] <Tonio_> \sh: hehe
[02:14] <Tonio_> is there a way to have kmail or kontact reduced in the systray ?
[02:16] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: i thought i had it like that.  there's certainly a little icon for it
[02:16] <Tonio_> okay
[02:16] <\sh> yes
[02:17] <\sh> configure kmail
[02:17] <\sh> appearance
[02:17] <\sh> system tray
[02:19] <imbrandon> ok got to run my kids and ex are taking me out to eat ( its fathers day in the USA ) bbiab
[02:20] <Tonio_> \sh: just found thanks ;)
[02:20] <Tonio_> I just don't understand how could I have been that for days without success....
[02:20] <Tonio_> since I did the full kontact config for kubuntu....
[02:22] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:01] <toma> Tonio_: are you still maintaining those settings?
[03:03] <Tonio_> toma: which ones ?
[03:03] <toma> kmail
[03:04] <Tonio_> nope, those packages are maintained by riddell
[03:04] <Tonio_> but I maintain a part of the config within kds
[03:05] <toma> ok, not exactly a setting, but the Debian people are considering disabling 'disconnected imap'.
[03:06] <Tonio_> toma: hu ? what's the reason for this ?
[03:06] <Tonio_> it works very nicelly
[03:08] <toma> Tonio_: sometimes it eats mail. see  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104956
[03:08] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 104956 in disconnected IMAP "dimap: sudden mail loss" [Critical,New]
[03:08] <Tonio_> wow nasty...
[03:09] <Tonio_> I use disconnected imap for month and never saw this
[03:09] <toma> it is a bug which can not be reproduced reliably it seems.
[03:10] <Tonio_> yup
[03:10] <Tonio_> very dirty...
[03:11] <toma> I'll keep an eye on what Debian will decide for their release.
[03:12] <Tonio_> yup, it makes sense
[03:14] <\sh> hmmm..only dimap? with normal imap i never saw this happen
[03:15] <toma> dimap only
[03:15] <\sh> so I'm safe ;)
[03:16] <uniq> tonio_: which part of kds do you maintain? - i would request a keyboard shortcut for show hidden files. gnome has alt+h.
[03:16] <Hobbsee> uniq: alt+h is usually assigned to showing the help menu
[03:16] <Hobbsee> ctrl+h, however..
[03:17] <Tonio_> uniq: I maintain all kds
[03:17] <Tonio_> I agree that could be a good idea ;)
[03:17] <toma> kds?
[03:17] <Tonio_> kubuntu-default-settings*
[03:17] <toma> ah
[03:18] <Tonio_> too long to type everytime
[03:18] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: we'd have to vote on it though :P
[03:19] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: we need to rethink the full shortcuts ;)
[03:19] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: that is true.
[03:19] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: wouldnt that vary from upstream a lot then?
[03:20] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: we can had a bunch of secondary shortcuts
[03:20] <Hobbsee> true
[03:20] <Tonio_> this is what I did for gwenview for example
[03:20] <Tonio_> I don't want to touch the primary ones of course
[03:21] <uniq> we can make shortcut schemes.
[03:21] <Hobbsee> true
[03:21] <Tonio_> uniq: yup
[03:22] <uniq> that way making a gnome-ish shortcut scheme some users can have alt+h show/hide hidden files.. and others can choose the Kubuntu shortcut scheme,to open help.
[03:25] <Hobbsee> we cant use alt+h, that mucks up all the alt to open the menus at the top of the app
[03:25] <uniq> no?
[03:25] <uniq> alt+h would work just fine.
[03:26] <Hobbsee> oh, maybe it's cos i was using windows shortcuts originally
[03:27] <uniq> with alt you toggle selection of the menu, you can release alt and then press H to select the help menu.
[03:28] <Hobbsee> holding down alt, and hitting h, still activates the help menu
[03:28] <uniq> i don't have strong feelings for alt+h, but i just know that's what gnome has.
[03:28] <toma> uniq: not many people use it that way
[03:29] <Hobbsee> for the windows shortcuts at at least, so..
[03:29] <uniq> toma: probably true.
[03:29] <uniq> lets use another shortcut :)
[03:29] <toma> right
[03:30] <toma> if we are short in keys, we can always setup the caps key to do somehting usefull in life
[03:30] <uniq> hehe.. i have it as ctrl :)
[04:45] <jeroenvrp> Hobbsee: do you know soemthing about the wireless assistent
[04:45] <jeroenvrp> or anyone else
[04:46] <Hobbsee> jeroenvrp: w.r.t?
[04:46] <jeroenvrp> I have here a friend of mine with a laptop, with a fresh installed dapper
[04:46] <Hobbsee> Lure: packaged it, i believe.  him or Tonio_
[04:46] <jeroenvrp> his wireless modem uses a WPA-SPK encryption, but it only asks for WEP?!
[04:47] <uniq> i would recommend using knetworkmanager
[04:47] <jeroenvrp> uniq: ok I see
[04:47] <jeroenvrp> one moment
[04:52] <jeroenvrp> uniq: knetworkmanager doesnt even seem networks
[04:52] <jeroenvrp> it must be possible with the wireless assistent
[04:52] <uniq> hmm.. unsupported wifi card maybe.
[04:52] <Tonio_> jeroenvrp: I packaged it why ?
[04:52] <jeroenvrp> Tonio_: hi
[04:52] <Tonio_> hey ;)
[04:52] <jeroenvrp> uniq: it works
[04:53] <jeroenvrp> uniq: I can have a uncrypted network
[04:53] <jeroenvrp> Tonio_: how to add a WPA-SPK key instead of a WEP key?
[04:53] <Tonio_> jeroenvrp: wireless assistant doesn't handle wpa, only wep....
[04:53] <jeroenvrp> mmm
[04:53] <uniq> jeroenvrp: with knetworkmanager? you should be able to choose that.
[04:53] <Tonio_> we need to find a better manager like kwlan for edgy
[04:53] <jeroenvrp> so how do I use WPA-SDK
[04:54] <Tonio_> the only working tool I know is knetworkmanager
[04:54] <jeroenvrp> ok
[04:54] <Tonio_> maybe kwlan can do it since it is also a frontend to wpasupplicant
[04:54] <jeroenvrp> but when I open it it doesnt show any trusted or untrusted networks
[04:54] <jeroenvrp> where can I configure the devices
[04:54] <jeroenvrp> in kcontrol?
[04:54] <Tonio_> jeroenvrp: do you user ndiswrapper ?
[04:54] <jeroenvrp> whats that
[04:54] <Tonio_> those limitations are generally due to the driver
[04:55] <jeroenvrp> btw: the card is working
[04:55] <Tonio_> it is a tool that allows the usage of a windows driver wiht linux
[04:55] <Tonio_> jeroenvrp: working doesn't mean everything works
[04:55] <uniq> jeroenvrp: click the knetworkmanager icon -> connect to ... -> now input your wireless info.
[04:55] <jeroenvrp> we are connected with an uncrypted modem somewhere around
[04:55] <Tonio_> for example, my shuttle's wifi card doesn't support anything else than wep
[04:55] <jeroenvrp> uniq: ok, I try again
[04:55] <jeroenvrp> few moments pleaser
[04:55] <Tonio_> oki
[04:55] <Tonio_> not all card's driver do support all wifi modes.... unfortunately
[04:56] <Tonio_> that's why I bought a centrino based config :)
[04:56] <uniq> i haven't tried wpa anywhere yet. I use wep+openvpn at home.
[04:56] <uniq> bcm43xx is getting there for me.
[04:59] <Tonio_> uniq: so you have extracted the firmwares from the windows driver didn't you ?
[04:59] <uniq> from the macosx driver yes.
[04:59] <Tonio_> I had the same drivers on my laptop
[04:59] <Tonio_> okay, it is exactely the same
[04:59] <Tonio_> I had a few issues with the driver in knetworkmanager
[04:59] <uniq> I don't have any.
[04:59] <Tonio_> for example, strengh was always on the maximum
[05:00] <Tonio_> but it worked with no issues with my wpa router
[05:00] <uniq> that can be true for me too.. the strength part.
[05:00] <Tonio_> uniq: as far as I remember I had issues with the bcm driver
[05:01] <Tonio_> yes, that's it !!
[05:01] <Tonio_> I blacklisted it in modprobe's blacklist and use ndiswrapper instead
[05:01] <Tonio_> I had better result with this one
[05:01] <Tonio_> ;)
[05:01] <jeroenvrp> I tried a few things
[05:01] <jeroenvrp> 1. in kcontrol I see eth0 as the lan and eth1 as the wlan
[05:02] <jeroenvrp> 2. the systray icon of knetworkmanager says disconnected
[05:02] <uniq> tonio_: ok, only problem i might have is the strengt part, and that i don't care about. It works and it's fast for me. And everything is so nice with knm :)
[05:02] <Tonio_> jeroenvrp: what is your card ?
[05:02] <jeroenvrp> 3. but were are connected
[05:02] <Tonio_> what driver do you use with it ?
[05:03] <jeroenvrp> Tonio_: a dell laptop precision M71
[05:03] <Tonio_> uniq: nice it works for you :) but it never worked for me
[05:03] <Tonio_> jeroenvrp: what wireless card
[05:03] <Tonio_> can you try this : lsmod | grep bcm
[05:03] <Tonio_> and pipe the result here plz
[05:03] <Tonio_> s/pipe/paste
[05:04] <Tonio_> I suspect you use the bcm43xx driver and you didn't extract the firmwares
[05:04] <Tonio_> that driver is really confusing, don't you think uniq ?
[05:04] <Tonio_> since nothing tells you it doesn't work out of the box
[05:05] <uniq> jeroenvrp: did you say you could connect to a open wlan with it?
[05:06] <jeroenvrp> uniq: yes
[05:06] <goldenear> Hi Tonio_ :)
[05:06] <goldenear> Tonio_: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/oskar
[05:06] <Tonio_> hey goldenear :)
[05:06] <Tonio_> great ;)
[05:06] <Tonio_> I'll discuss this this week in paris
[05:07] <Tonio_> that's a major plan for kubuntu edgy
[05:07] <uniq> jeroenvrp: then the driver works.
[05:07] <goldenear> Tonio_: I'll be in paris too
[05:07] <uniq> jeroenvrp: are there references to the wlan card in /etc/network/interfaces?
[05:07] <Tonio_> goldenear: great ;)
[05:07] <Tonio_> tomorrow ?
[05:07] <Tonio_> the new UI is very nice !!!!!!!
[05:07] <goldenear> I think
[05:08] <Tonio_> I'm away, we'll discuss this tomorrow
[05:08] <goldenear> Tonio_: at what time is the begining
[05:08] <Tonio_> 9 am
[05:08] <goldenear> I could only be there during the afternoon
[05:12] <jeroenvrp> Tonio_: no output for  lsmod | grep bcm\
[05:12] <jeroenvrp> Tonio_: no output for  lsmod | grep bcm
[05:12] <Tonio_> jeroenvrp: don't you know which card is on your system ?
[05:13] <uniq> jeroenvrp: are there references to the wlan card in /etc/network/interfaces?
[05:13] <uniq> in case there are, you must remove them for knetworkmanager to work on the device.
[05:13] <uniq> on/for
[05:14] <jeroenvrp> uniq: yes
[05:14] <jeroenvrp> ok
[05:15] <jeroenvrp> uniq: what must be removed
[05:15] <jeroenvrp> all of eth0 and eth1
[05:15] <uniq> if you want knetworkmanager to handle both, yes.
[05:15] <jeroenvrp> ok
[05:15] <uniq> uncomment please.
[05:15] <uniq> don't delete :)
[05:24] <Lure> goldenear: you should Add to meeting the psec if you want it to be discussed on UDS
[05:26] <goldenear> Lure: ?? what do you mean ?
[05:27] <Lure> Select Add to meeting on left side and assign it to uds-paris
[05:28] <goldenear> OK, done it :) Thank you Lure
[05:28] <Lure> goldenear: now you just need to hope that someone (Riddell?) approves it for meeting
[05:32] <goldenear> Lure: If it's not approved, I'll have an "unofficial" meeting with Tonio and any other interrested people :)
[05:33] <Lure> goldenear: for sure - I think there will be time to try...
[05:33] <Lure> BTW, did anybody test teamspeak (VoIP for UDS in Paris)?
[05:37] <Hobbsee> Lure: yeah, works nicely
[05:37] <Lure> Hobbsee: hi - so I just need to grab the binaries from teamspeak?
[05:37] <Hobbsee> Lure: yep
[05:38] <Hobbsee> run the installer, then cd TeamSpeak<tab> , and run the shell script
[05:38] <Lure> ok, will do now - I hope I will be able to participte on some sessions next week (if they do not clash with my work agenda - which is quite full already :-()
[05:41] <Hobbsee> Lure: :)
[05:41] <goldenear> Lure: what's teamspeek ?
[05:42] <jeroenvrp> uniq: thanks, it works :-)
[05:42] <Hobbsee> goldenear: VOIP client
[05:42] <Lure> VoIP conferencing SW that will be used on UDS
[05:42] <Hobbsee> Lure: at least i never have to worry about identifying myself
[05:42] <uniq> jeroenvrp: great :)
[05:44] <goldenear> is teamspeak opensource ?
[05:44] <Lure> Hobbsee: windows installer?!?!
[05:44] <Hobbsee> Lure: yeah i know :(
[05:44] <Lure> Hobbsee: is TS wine app?
[05:44] <Hobbsee> hey Mez
[05:44] <Mez> hey sarah
[05:44] <uniq> no, and there is no binary for linuxppc either.
[05:44] <Hobbsee> Lure: no, there's a linux one further down
[05:45] <Mez> Riddell: ping
[05:45] <goldenear> Why not to use asterisk+ekiga or twinkle ?
[05:45] <Lure> Mez: Riddell is supposed to be offline until tommorow...
[05:45] <Mez> ah - i'll ring him later then
[05:46] <Lure> Mez: he is already in Paris (also to have some fun)
[05:46] <Mez> whats happeinign in paris then ?
[05:47] <jpatrick> dev summit
[05:47] <jpatrick> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis
[05:48] <Mez> ah - didnt know bout it or woulda gone
[05:48] <goldenear> Is that a Riddell picture ? http://photos.jonmasters.org/albums/LUGRadioLive_20050625/dscn0031.sized.jpg
[05:48] <Lure> Hobbsee: it installs under Games? ;-) (that is first "game" on my system)
[05:48] <jpatrick> goldenear: yes
[05:48] <Mez> goldenear that be ruddell
[05:48] <goldenear> ok
[05:48] <Mez> riddell ...
[05:48] <goldenear> So I will be able to recognize him now :)
[05:48] <Hobbsee> Lure: yeah - apparently it's usually for games
[05:49] <jpatrick> goldenear: you can just see Jonathan Riddell on the id card
[05:49] <goldenear> the id card ?
[05:50] <jpatrick> in the picture
[05:50] <goldenear> I can't read it
[05:50] <goldenear> it's too small on my screen
[05:50] <Mez> ne1 here gonna be at LRL this yead?
[05:50] <Hobbsee> lrl?
[05:51] <Mez> LUGRadio Live
[05:51] <Hobbsee> oh
[05:51] <jpatrick> Not me
[05:53] <Mez> y not jpatrick
[05:54] <jpatrick> Mez: 1) No way my parents would let me
[05:54] <Lure> Hobbsee: I am on, but not sure if anybody hears me...
[05:54] <Mez> jpatrick - where u live ?
[05:55] <Hobbsee> Lure: i'm not there atm....
[05:55] <Lure> Hobbsee: is there a text chat to?
[05:55] <Hobbsee> Lure: not really
[05:55] <jpatrick> Mez: Girona, Spain
[05:55] <Mez> ah - bit of a PITA then
[05:55] <jpatrick> they won't even let me go to Barcelona
[05:56] <Hobbsee> oh yeah
[05:56] <Lure> Hobbsee: I see I can sent text message.... And that you are trying to get in... ;-)
[05:56] <Mez> lol - I'm lucky Iive close to LRL
[05:56] <Hobbsee> Lure: try speaking
[05:56] <Hobbsee> hey Lure - i hear you :)
[05:56] <Lure> I tried...
[05:57] <Lure> ok, good... Can you speak?
[05:57] <Hobbsee> Lure: no, parents are asleep
[05:57] <Lure> ok, thanks anyway...
[05:57] <Lure> ;-)
[05:57] <Lure> I am more concerned about my mike...
[05:58] <Hobbsee> Lure: it sounds okay to me
[05:58] <jpatrick> Mez: Maybe it would of being better if I was back in London
[05:58] <Hobbsee> Lure: were you using push to talk, or the other?
[05:58] <Lure> Hobbsee: good - we will see how this works under load on Monday... ;-)
[05:58] <Lure> Hobbsee: PTT
[05:58] <Hobbsee> yeah..
[05:59] <Hobbsee> should be interesting
[06:16] <\sh> Tonio_: ping
[06:17] <\sh> Lure: are you in paris_
[06:17] <jpatrick> Hope so
[06:17] <Lure> \sh: no....
[06:17] <jpatrick> ;)
[06:17] <\sh> Lure: hmmm
[06:17] <Lure> too much work related stuff next week
[06:17] <\sh> who is living in paris? Tonio_
[06:18] <\sh> raphink_sleep is in nice I think?
[06:18] <Lure> \sh: yes
[06:18] <Lure> maybe goldenear?
[06:26] <goldenear> ??
[06:26] <\sh> are you in paris?
[06:26] <goldenear> Yes I am
[06:27] <goldenear> I live in Paris
[06:27] <\sh> carlospc needs help :)
[06:27] <\sh> jump to #ubuntu-devel :)
[06:34] <aplg|drowning> Tonio_: ping
[06:35] <jpatrick> you're drowning....
[06:35] <aplg|drowning> oh ^^
[06:35] <aplg|drowning> re
[06:36] <jpatrick> f/d apachelogger
[06:38] <uniq> heh.. qt4 dance. :)
[06:40] <jpatrick> np: "Knights of Cydonia" - Muse | Black Holes And Revelations [amaroK]
[06:47] <uniq> hmm.. how do you guys read gpg encrypted mails in kmail?
[06:47] <\sh> yes
[06:47] <\sh> but not without gnupg-agent and pinentry-qt installed ;)
[06:47] <uniq> i used to use gpg-agent with pinentry-qt.. but after upgrading to dapper it doesn't work anymore :|
[06:48] <uniq> have to set it up again i guess.
[06:48] <\sh> it still works..check /etc/X11/Xsession.options
[06:48] <uniq> use-ssh-agent
[06:49] <uniq> it's there.. but it doesn't start.
[06:49] <\sh> no
[06:49] <\sh> gpg-agent
[06:49] <uniq> hmm..
[06:49] <\sh> you need
[06:50] <uniq> gpg-agent ah.
[06:50] <uniq> stupid me.
[06:50] <uniq> gpg != ssh
[06:50] <\sh> yes :=
[06:52] <uniq> hmm.. Xsession.d/90gpg-agent says that 'use-agent' in ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf is enought.
[06:52] <\sh> uniq: comment out use-agent in gpg.conf
[06:52] <uniq> or ~/.gnupg/options
[06:53] <uniq> hang on.. i'll relogin.
[06:53] <\sh> i need to grab something to smoke...give me 10
[07:01] <uniq> \sh: i didn't change Xsession.options at all, just added "use-agent" to ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf and it works. nice to know that it's just a user config.
[07:01] <uniq> Xsession.d/90gpg-agent takes care of the rest.
[07:04] <\sh> uniq: but you have to enable it in Xsession.options to start it globally.
[07:06] <uniq> \sh: yes, but each user can select to start it or not. that's what i want.
[07:51] <Lure> http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=14927
[07:55] <apachelogger> hm, is the lock panels option not visible enough? Oo
[07:56] <\sh> oh it's this ranting freak again
[07:56] <\sh> 1 Dec 1984
[07:56] <\sh> birthdate, that says everything
[07:57] <apachelogger> well, if the other 2 posts are as stupid shit, he is really.....
[07:57] <apachelogger> anyway, the point about kdesu is a good one
[07:57] <apachelogger> if a user doesn't start kdesu itself
[07:57] <apachelogger> as in case of adept
[07:57] <apachelogger> he doesn't know which password to use
[07:57] <\sh> well, that kde has a lot of UI design mistakes, it's known since 1.0
[07:57] <apachelogger> though he also can start kdesu without knowing what it does
[07:58] <\sh> which hopefully goes away with kde4
[07:58] <apachelogger> well, there is the accessibility problem
[07:58] <\sh> ah...thunder :)
[07:58] <apachelogger> we talked about the other day in #amarok
[07:59] <apachelogger> kde sux about accessibility
[07:59] <apachelogger> big time actually
[07:59] <apachelogger> the apps which are their are mostly wirten for KDE 3.2/3
[07:59] <apachelogger> *written
[07:59] <apachelogger> and bugging like hell
[07:59] <apachelogger> there also this missing usability is really really visible
[07:59] <\sh> sute
[07:59] <\sh> sure
[08:00] <\sh> no doubt...but the problem is, there are not enough people in KDE who are doing usability and accessibility work
[08:00] <apachelogger> yeah
[08:00] <apachelogger> that's why we started initial thoughts about promo for development ;-)
[08:00] <apachelogger> secret though :P
[08:01] <\sh> well, not development...we need someone like mpt or ken and steve jobs
[08:01] <apachelogger> we just need everything
[08:01] <apachelogger> current problem is imo that there are far too less people working on KDE
[08:01] <\sh> sadly yes
[08:02] <apachelogger> though, as much as I hate this "we wanna translate everything" stuff, but our translations (as I can tell from german and french) are really really good ones
[08:45] <jpatrick> fd
[09:00] <uniq> cowbuilder looks nice.
[09:01] <uniq> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/05/msg02735.html
[09:03] <\sh> I want this: http://www.therawfeed.com/2006/06/worst-usb-gadget-yet-decapitated-teddy.html
[09:10] <jpatrick> \sh: nice
[09:42] <Riddell-awa> goldenear: yes, that's me, not looking my best
[09:42] <Riddell-awa> "no, Riddell *is* a person" that's nice to have confirmed :)
[09:45] <raphink_sleep> wow :)
[09:46] <raphink> good to know :)
[09:46] <raphink> hehe
[09:53] <nixternal> lol Riddell-awa: sorry for calling you a bot :)
[09:53] <nixternal> but it was fun messing with the other guy...he actually thought you were fake...but hobbsee stepped in and set him straight ;)
[09:54] <nixternal> had him believing you were a bot..LOL
[09:58] <Riddell-awa> testers needed on teamspeak
[10:03] <uniq> sorry, teamspeak doesn't provide a linuxppc binary. so i'm left out in the cold.
[10:04] <nixternal> i am still waiting for my usb headset/phone so i can use it with teamspeak and skype
[10:04] <nixternal> right now i am using an old headset/mic combo
[10:04] <nixternal> i guess they heard me..cuz i heard someone say "thanks nixternal"
[10:04] <toma> what is teamspeak?
[10:05] <\sh> http://www.goteamspeak.com/
[10:05] <uniq> voip software for gamers
[10:05] <nixternal> toma: it is a VoIP .....
[10:05] <toma> thanks all
[10:05] <nixternal> ya what uniq said and the \sh link ;)
[10:05] <nixternal> i used to use it many years ago when i was into the gaming community
[10:06] <nixternal> first time i used it with Linux though...actually runs great for me
[10:06] <jpatrick> -> http://experts.microsoft.fr/
[10:06] <uniq> i find it strange to choose a voip software that's not supported on all archs ubuntu officially supports.
[10:07] <nixternal> someone just growled on teamspeak ;)
[10:07] <nixternal> \sh no mic?
[10:08] <\sh> nixternal: looks like my mic is not working..and I don't hear anything
[10:08] <nixternal> you didn't
[10:09] <nixternal> Welcome Message:  "Sorry for my TeamSpeak"
[10:09] <nixternal> LOL
[10:09] <\sh> does it work only with OSS?
[10:09] <nixternal> ohhhh
[10:09] <nixternal> \sh temp fix
[10:09] <\sh> how?
[10:10] <nixternal> go into system settings > sounds ...and shut off system sounds
[10:10] <nixternal> imbrandon_ knows of an oss wrapper that works...im waiting for him to show me..but in the mean time shutting off the system sounds work
[10:11] <nixternal> hey kmon
[10:12] <kmon> hi
[10:14] <kmon> i'm reading this about kde in kubuntu: http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=14927
[10:14] <kmon> it's a rant
[10:14] <\sh> oh damn
[10:14] <\sh> I can hear you ...
[10:14] <\sh> but I can't speak
[10:14] <\sh> with a normal analog headset
[10:14] <\sh> now I'm trying it with my usb one
[10:16] <\sh> brb
[10:17] <nixternal> he has some valid points kmon..but that guy does nothing but rant about everything...it is ok to rant, but if you don't help the situation then it is nothing but a waste of time in my eyes
[10:17] <Riddell-awa> wow, osnews just gets worse and worse
[10:17] <kmon> nixternal: yep.
[10:18] <nixternal> and some of his rants aren't even valid
[10:18] <kmon> I find myself kde more consistent than gnome
[10:18] <Riddell-awa> it's way more consistent, xml-rpc takes care of that
[10:19] <nixternal> changing the size of icons is way to easy ;)
[10:19] <Riddell-awa> especially if you consider firefox part of gnome
[10:19] <nixternal> kmon i am with you on that...i have Ubuntu installed on my laptop and it is nice, but Gnome is...i don't know, goofy ?
[10:20] <kmon> it's not my taste
[10:20] <nixternal> oh and people have issues with Konqi, try Epiphony..it is horrible ;)
[10:20] <kmon> Riddell-awa: tomorrow is the kde event?
[10:20] <nixternal> im starting to use Konqi more and more now for web browsing
[10:20] <kmon> konqui rocks
[10:20] <Riddell-awa> kmon: tomorrow is the ubuntu developers summit
[10:21] <kmon> yep
[10:21] <kmon> I thought tomorrow canonical people meet kde people
[10:22] <jpatrick> and vice verse
[10:24] <Lure> Riddell-awa: btw, is schedule for tommorow already set?
[10:25] <Riddell-awa> Lure: nope
[10:25] <Riddell-awa> Lure: I think tomorrow starts with everyone introducing their spec so I don't know when the BoFs start
[10:25] <Lure> Riddell-awa: ok, makes sense...
[10:27] <\sh> what was the server again?
[10:27] <jpatrick>  teamspeak.uds.canonical.com
[10:30] <\sh> ok..sound on the headphones now
[10:30] <\sh> but not with teamspeak
[10:31] <\sh> i need this alsa 2 oss tool
[10:32] <\sh> if nothing works..i have a windows machine at work ,)
[10:32] <nixternal> ewww
[10:32] <nixternal> ;)
[10:33] <imbrandon_> \sh: apt-get install alsa-oss then modprobe -m snd-pcm-oss
[10:33] <\sh> argl..
[10:33] <imbrandon_> all should work with oss after that
[10:33] <\sh> even with aoss it doens't work
[10:33] <imbrandon_> ^^ \sh read above, thats how i got mine working with alsa
[10:33] <nixternal> gahahah
[10:33] <nixternal> hello moto
[10:34] <\sh> imbrandon_: nope
[10:34] <linuxmonkey> whats the ts info
[10:34] <\sh> imbrandon_: I'm on the toshiba now
[10:34] <nixternal> ya...\sh is muted
[10:34] <\sh> imbrandon_: and I need to use the usb head set
[10:34] <imbrandon_> ahh
[10:34] <\sh> i can't even hear anything
[10:34] <goldenear> Riddell-awa: are you in Paris ?
[10:34] <imbrandon_> alsa-oss SHOULD remap /dev/dsp to alsa
[10:34] <imbrandon_> SHOULD
[10:35] <imbrandon_> goldenear: yes he is
[10:35] <\sh> well...let me use windows for that ;)
[10:35] <\sh> as I said, teamspeak is evil ;)
[10:35] <\sh> brb
[10:35] <Riddell-awa> goldenear: yes
[10:36] <imbrandon_> yea TS is evil thats for sure ( we need to as a group push for better group voip stuff for linux thats foss )
[10:36] <goldenear> Riddell-awa: I hope you'll have a nice week here in Paris :)
[10:36] <linuxmonkey> Riddell-awa: whats the TS server info
[10:36] <imbrandon_> linuxmonkey: teamspeak.uds.caonical.com
[10:36] <linuxmonkey> thanks imbrandon_
[10:37] <Riddell-awa> goldenear: you're coming to join us?
[10:37] <goldenear> sure
[10:37] <Riddell-awa> great
[10:37] <goldenear> I'll try to be there tomorrow afternoon
[10:37] <imbrandon_> what time does the confrence start in the AM ? ( GMT/UTC time ? )
[10:37] <Riddell-awa> imbrandon_: 09:00 ESTC
[10:37] <Riddell-awa> UTC+2
[10:37] <imbrandon_> kk
[10:37] <imbrandon_> thanks
[10:38] <goldenear> Riddell-awa: is there a planing for the conferences (topics)?
[10:39] <Lure> goldenear: this sounds similar like your oskar spec: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-videoplayer-ui
[10:39] <goldenear> I mean, some discutions will concerne only ubuntu/gnome
[10:40] <goldenear> yes Lure: that's exactly that
[10:41] <Lure> goldenear: not sure if you can close spec as duplicate.. ;-)
[10:41] <Riddell-awa> goldenear: http://launchpad.net/people/jr/+specs the Braindump ones
[10:41] <Riddell-awa> and all of these https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-paris/+specs
[10:42] <Riddell-awa> Lure: you can mark it as superceded
[10:42] <Riddell-awa> Lure: yes, that's for oskar
[10:43] <Lure> Riddell-awa: yes, there is another one: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/oskar
[10:43] <\sh> this is so embarassing
[10:43] <Lure> \sh: what? to use Windows for VoIP?>
[10:44] <\sh> teamspeak is no voip
[10:44] <Riddell-awa> Lure: right, one of those should e maked as superceded then
[10:44] <goldenear> why not to use open source technologies instead of teamspeak ?
[10:44] <Riddell-awa> goldenear: nothing matches the funtionality
[10:45] <goldenear> it's easy to setup as asterisk conference server
[10:45] <Riddell-awa> goldenear: mark will bounty it if someone wants to make it
[10:45] <goldenear> asterisk does
[10:45] <Riddell-awa> goldenear: that's a server, needs frontend
[10:45] <jsgotangco> i dont think there's enough time to make this work on asterisk
[10:45] <goldenear> and clients are available for linux
[10:45] <Riddell-awa> the killer issue was visual clue on who's talking I believe
[10:45] <goldenear> ekiga for gnome, twinkle for kde
[10:45] <jsgotangco> atm elmo is pretty busy wiring stuff here
[10:45] <\sh> Riddell-awa: ah well, you can't always have an eye on ts
[10:46] <\sh> can somebody speak a test message?
[10:47] <goldenear> it would be easy to have a streaming video of the conference
[10:48] <\sh> how many connections you can do with the freeware server?
[10:48] <Riddell-awa> 250
[10:49] <\sh> i hope that's enough ;)
[10:54] <goldenear> Riddell-awa: what's the schedule for the conferences ? eg when are the kubuntu specific conferences ?
[10:55] <Riddell-awa> goldenear: no idea, we'll find out in the morning
[10:56] <goldenear> ok
[11:01] <\sh> re
[11:01] <Tonio_> hey Riddell-awa !
[11:02] <Tonio_> did you appreciate those 2 days in paris ?
[11:02] <Riddell-awa> Tonio_: yes, lovely
[11:02] <Tonio_> great
[11:02] <linuxmonkey> anyone here an op for #kubuntu, we need to restore some order...they are debating politics
[11:03] <\sh> fighting debating politics with raw force? ;)
[11:27] <toma> Riddell-awa: i didnt see a spec for keytouch or bzr....
[11:35] <apachelogger> \sh: http://dev.bit-freaks.net/apachelogger/print.pdf
[11:37] <\sh> apachelogger: not possible :(
[11:38] <\sh> apachelogger: amarok is main, and we don't know if during installation a network is available
[11:38] <apachelogger> \sh: ?
[11:38] <apachelogger> not good
[11:38] <\sh> The plainest way would be to write a bash script wgetting a seperate MP3
[11:38] <\sh> package (for example for xine) and install it by bord tools using kdesu.
[11:38] <\sh> thats what I mean with "not possible"
[11:39] <\sh> the right thing to do is to patch xine...to remove mp3 codec from the default list
[11:39] <goldenear> did you read this: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=14927
[11:39] <\sh> yeah
[11:39] <apachelogger> \sh: well, the system got designed with Riddell-awa afaik, so he might know what to do ;-)
[11:39] <goldenear> I think this may me discussed in Paris
[11:40] <\sh> goldenear: there is nothing to discuss...problem is, to less people are doing UI and accessibilty work on kde...
[11:40] <\sh> goldenear: the only thing to discuss is, how to shut the fck up this guy...he does nothing, just ranting
[11:40] <goldenear> I really would like to work on this
[11:41] <\sh> apachelogger: this but report in kde bugzilla is quite right about the way to go, imho
[11:42] <apachelogger> \sh: which report?
[11:42] <\sh> goldenear: kwwii can help to get in touch with the right people on kdes site
[11:42] <\sh> apachelogger: zou remember the bug, that amarok does play playlist with mp3 files, and not saying that mp3 codec is not installed?
[11:43] <goldenear> \sh: I'll ask him :)
[11:43] <Riddell-awa> toma: keytouch?
[11:44] <\sh> apachelogger: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124540
[11:44] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 124540 in general "When codecs are not available Amarok finishes playback instantly, Amarok should popup a complaint to the user to fix his/her codecs." [Wishlist,Resolved: invalid]
[11:44] <toma> Riddell-awa: the app to easily setup multimedia keys, addition to guidance
[11:44] <Riddell-awa> toma: this is a distro only conference, no bzr
[11:45] <apachelogger> \sh: got also fixed at K3M
[11:45] <toma> wrt bzr, setup home dir with bzr enabled
[11:45] <\sh> Riddell-awa: have fun...good night :)
[11:45] <apachelogger> \sh: as part of it
[11:45] <apachelogger> either that codec feature is active
[11:45] <apachelogger> then it says
[11:45] <apachelogger> mp3 is not available, shall I install it - and starts the script defined in exec
[11:45] <apachelogger> or it just says "wooho, no mp3 you poor user!"
[11:45] <\sh> apachelogger: this is more then ok...because then amarok is already started the first time
[11:46] <\sh> but during installation assuming that network is available, is a no go ;)
[11:46] <apachelogger> wah, it doesn't do while installation ;-)
[11:47] <apachelogger> our screen record team should do a vid :P
[11:48] <\sh> apachelogger: the text in the announcement can be misunderstood then ;)
[11:51] <\sh> I just bought my first cd via ebay and paypal
[11:51] <apachelogger> \sh: I wrote some more lines ;-)
[11:51] <\sh> apachelogger: thx :)


[00:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2841 Preparing packages
[01:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2861 Needs rebuild due to new commits (artful/unity). Successfully built (artful/unity-control-center)
[01:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2861 Preparing packages
[01:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2841 Pending binary packages (xenial/unity). Successfully built (xenial/compiz, xenial/nux, xenial/unity-control-center)
[02:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2841 Successfully built
[02:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2861 Pending binary packages (artful/unity). Successfully built (artful/unity-control-center)
[02:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2861 Successfully built
[05:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- tsimonq2 mitya57, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2819 Diff missing (artful/akonadi, artful/ciborium, artful/fcitx-qt5, artful/frameworkintegration, artful/kdeclarative, artful/kguiaddons, artful/kwayland, artful/kwin, artful/libfm-qt, artful/libqtxdg, artful/lxqt-qtplugin, artful/lxqt-session, artful/maliit-framework, artful/openorienteering-mapper, artful/plasma-integration, artful/pyqt5, artful/qlipper, artful/qt3d-opensource-src, artful
[08:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2874 Publishing packages
[08:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2861 Preparing packages
[08:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2718 Preparing packages
[08:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2841 Preparing packages
[08:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2874 Proposed pocket
[09:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2718 Needs rebuild due to new commits
[09:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2841 Failed to build (xenial/unity). Successfully built (xenial/compiz, xenial/nux, xenial/unity-control-center)
[09:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2861 Pending binary packages (artful/unity). Successfully built (artful/unity-control-center)
[10:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2861 Successfully built
[10:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2874 Release pocket
[12:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2774 Abandoning ticket
[13:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2717 Abandoning ticket
[13:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2729 Abandoning ticket
[13:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2877 Preparing packages
[16:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2878 Preparing packages
[17:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2878 Generating diffs
[17:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2878 Successfully built
[22:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2841 Preparing packages
[23:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2841 Pending binary packages (xenial/unity). Successfully built (xenial/compiz, xenial/nux, xenial/unity-control-center)


[09:18] <bobdobbs> Hi all. I want to test something that will run on ubuntu server and not ubuntu desktop. Is anyone aware of the existence of a virtual appliance of ubuntu server that will just run on something like virtualbox, without the need for pre-installation configution?
[09:19] <bobdobbs> The appliances that I've found require configuration before they are run in order for a user to log in. I want to sidestep that if I can.
[09:22] <andol> bobdobbs: Vagrant, together with the official https://app.vagrantup.com/ubuntu images, are kind of nice for those kind of scenarios.
[09:26] <bobdobbs> thanks
[10:56] <frickler> bobdobbs: there are also cloud-images if you want to run on OpenStack or similar https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/
[11:06] <winshit> hi there! i am bringing up my question from yesterday again...
[11:07] <winshit> during start of the grafana-server service i get "bind:permission denied" for port 80
[11:07] <winshit> even though i created a systemd unit override with: CapabilityBoundingSet=CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE , AmbientCapabilities=CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE as well as PrivateUsers=false
[11:08] <winshit> i did a systemctl daemon-reaload, i restarted the service, i restarted the machine. but the error remains.
[11:09] <winshit> system is a ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS vm
[11:11] <winshit> complete error msg is: "failed to open listener on address <IP_ADDRESS>:80: listen tcp <IP_ADDRESS>:80: bind: permission denied"
[11:18] <winshit> systemctl status grafana-server shows "Drop-In: /etc/systemd/grafana-server.service.d with override.conf"
[11:18] <winshit> so i guess it found my override and is aware of it
[11:25] <winshit> what can i do to further debug the situation?
[11:27] <winshit> just in case if somebody is wondering: port 80 is NOT occupied by some other service


[00:26] <slangasek> mathiaz: for new stuff, definitely preferred to modify the job directly; for existing stuff, I've tried to respect the existing configs when converting
[00:27] <mathiaz> slangasek: great thanks
[00:27] <mathiaz> slangasek: I'm writting my UDW session about server packages
[00:27] <mathiaz> slangasek: and plan a topic about upstart jobs
[00:27] <slangasek> ah :)
[00:27] <mathiaz> slangasek: do you have specific ideas about upstart features useful for daemons?
[00:28] <mathiaz> slangasek: I already have: supervision
[00:28] <mathiaz> slangasek: support for forking daemons
[00:28] <mathiaz> slangasek: examples of running daemons in foreground
[00:28] <slangasek> I was intending to put together a talk about authoring upstart jobs for UDW, but I didn't see a call for sessions this time around (just an announcement of when it was that implied the slots were already filled)
[00:28] <slangasek> mathiaz: automatically cascading restarts?
[00:29] <mathiaz> slangasek: oh nice
[00:29] <mathiaz> slangasek: examples?
[00:29] <slangasek> (service portmap restart -> restarts portmap, gssd, statd)
[00:30] <slangasek> not sure that's actually /needed/ for either of those services, but in practice it will happen :)
[00:30] <mathiaz> slangasek: is this already available in lucid?
[00:30] <slangasek> yes
[00:30] <slangasek> and in karmic
[00:30] <mathiaz> slangasek: do you have example of an upstart job that starts a process that forks
[00:30] <mathiaz> slangasek: IIRC there is the fork keyword available
[00:30] <mathiaz> slangasek: or expect fork - something like that
[00:31] <slangasek> mathiaz: many do... ssh, portmap, atd, et al
[00:31] <ion> Upstart’s fork-following code is quite fragile currently. The next-gen Upstart will have a proper implementation that should handle any situation well.
[00:31] <slangasek> really?  that's not a caveat Keybnz has mentioned :)
[00:32] <mathiaz> slangasek: any other ideas about Upstart feature relevant for managing daemons?
[00:32] <ion> He has mentioned it repeatedly.
[00:33] <slangasek> mathiaz: built in support for oom handling?
[00:33] <slangasek> ion: to you, apparently, but not anywhere that I've picked up on it...
[00:33] <slangasek> mathiaz: +nicing +limits
[00:33] <mathiaz> slangasek: hmmm - any examples of this use?
[00:34] <slangasek> mathiaz: ssh in lucid; for the other two I don't have live examples, just init(5)
[00:34] <ion> If the job’s main command consistently does a fork or a double fork and you tell Upstart about it with the expect stanza, things will work.
[00:35] <slangasek> ion: oh, fragile in that you have to tell upstart what to look for, sure
[00:35] <ion> If the main command is a shell script that runs stuff and then execs the main daemon *that forks*, that’s likely to break the current implementation.
[00:35] <mathiaz> slangasek: great - thanks for the input!
[00:35] <slangasek> ion: right, that was one of the points for my theoretical UDW talk, under the heading "how to write an upstart job that you have to reboot to fix" :)
[00:35] <mathiaz> slangasek: I also noticed that there wasn't a reload command
[00:35] <ion> If the shell script does a fork-and-exec for an external command, the code will shit itself. :-)
[00:36] <mathiaz> slangasek: hm - sorry
[00:36] <mathiaz> slangasek: a force-reload command
[00:36] <ion> The proper implementation in Upstart 0.10 or whatever it’ll be called will handle that, too.
[00:36] <mathiaz> slangasek: as mentionned in the Debian policy
[00:37] <slangasek> mathiaz: Debian policy describes the behavior of init scripts in /etc/init.d; the upstart-job shim implements force-reload
[00:38] <slangasek> (though I'm not sure the 'reload' command is the right backend for that, maybe we have a bug there)
[00:38] <mathiaz> slangasek: is there a way to specify in the upstart job the command to be used for reload?
[00:38] <mathiaz> slangasek: ie send SIGUSR2 to the process for example?
[00:41] <slangasek> no
[00:49] <LLStarks> okay. can somebody tell me why reinstalling packages doesn't actually reinstall files?
[00:49] <LLStarks> if i reinstall the pulseaudio package after rm'ing the /etc/pulse directory, i expect it to be restored.
[00:49] <LLStarks> i shouldn't have to purge and then install
[00:50] <RAOF> LLStarks: /etc/pulse/ contains conffiles (as defined by dpkg), and dpkg makes sure that your changes to conffiles are preserved across installs.
[00:50] <LLStarks> how do i override?
[00:50] <RAOF> Well, you've found one way; purging will remove dpkg's memory of your conf file changes.
[00:51] <LLStarks> well, that can break and uninstall other packages
[00:51] <LLStarks> is there a more direct way?
[00:52] <RAOF> dpkg --purge --force-depends should purge just the package you're interested in, leaving everything else installed (but broken).  I think.
[00:52] <RAOF> Then installing again will reconfigure everything.
[00:53] <geser> IIRC there are some options to dpkg to force reinstall of missing /etc/ files
[00:54] <geser> LLStarks: try "dpkg --force-confmiss $the.deb"
[00:54] <LLStarks> thanks.
[10:40] <persia> slangasek: IF you're still interested in a UDW slot, you can have mine, as I'm just reprising a talk I've given lots of times (and I suspect all would be better served by a good understanding of upstart vs. me blathering about stacktraces again)
[10:51] <slangasek> persia: when is your slot?  I haven't done any prep work yet
[10:54] <persia> Friday
[10:54]  * persia digs up the exact time
[10:55] <persia> 29th January 20:00 UTC.  It's 5:00 saturday local for me, so I really won't miss it :)
[13:20] <hyperair> is it possible to create nfs shares without requiring root access?
[13:20] <hyperair> if it was, then i could possibly expand nautilus-share's scope to include NFS support.
[19:34] <geser> what's the solution for the python and linking with ssl issue?
[19:35] <ScottK> What's the issue?
[19:37] <geser> I'm trying to merge vim and got the problem that linking with python failed because of -lssl not being there
[19:38] <geser> I remember that some other builds had similar issues in the past too
[19:53] <geser> ScottK: looks like vim pulls in the value from LOCALMODLIBS from /usr/lib/python2.6/config/Makefile and -lssl is listed there
[19:55] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[19:55] <ScottK> geser: Oh.  No idea on that one.
[19:56] <_Groo_> you guys are updating to rc2 as i can see, gonna have to update my kde multimedia pulseaudio as soon as you upload the new multimedia to lucid
[19:58] <ion> hi/2 looks like an Erlang function reference.
[19:59] <_Groo_> ion: actually its an os/2 old warrior reference
[20:00] <_Groo_> ScottK: is rc2 be up 100% today (also with kdebindings for the first time? oO
[20:01] <ScottK> _Groo_: I know it's building now.  I didn't help with the packaging this time around, so I don't know about kdebindings.
[20:01]  * _Groo_ cross is fingers
[20:02] <_Groo_> ScottK: but the complete package will be uploaded today?
[20:02] <ScottK> _Groo_: It's all uploaded now.  In the process of building.
[20:02] <_Groo_> ScottK: sorry i mean published :) do you have a url i could see fo check for building progress?
[20:03] <ScottK> _Groo_: For kdebindings?
[20:03] <ScottK> There isn't one url for all of KDE.
[20:03] <_Groo_> ScottK: no, i mean, are you using a ppa to test or something like that? i wanna check what packages are built and published already
[20:04] <ScottK> _Groo_: For Lucid, it's in the Ubuntu archive.
[20:04] <_Groo_> ScottK: link pls?
[20:05] <ScottK> _Groo_: There isn't one for all of KDE.  You should probably ask in #kubuntu-devel for someone who was involved in packaging it.
[20:07] <_Groo_> ScottK: OMG i forgot that konversation removed that tab lol.. you are right
[21:02] <qense> What is the difference between Python packages in /usr/share/pyshared/ and those in /usr/share/?
[21:35] <ScottK> Generally the ones in /usr/share/pyshared are designed to (properly) support more than one Python version on a system.


 Took my phone to ubreakifix as it's a Samsung authorized repair center. Got a new battery yesterday for my s7 to extend the life of the phone
 They actually did an amazing job


[18:24] <bgardner> I was working with krytarik yesterday on a lxpanel crash, and although they are offline today I figure I'd report my results in case they (or anyone else) would find it helpful and/or read the logs.
[18:24] <bgardner> My original issue was that lxpanel would not start, and was filling my logs with errors about menu-cached.  I could not find any way to get more debug, so in desperation I pulled the wily source package from launchpad.
[18:25] <bgardner> That required me to install bzr, which I did not have installed.  That install barked at me because a perl subcomponent saw that I did not have my locales configured yet.
[18:25] <kryten> bgardner: Well, I'm here - nicks flipped in the night. :P
[18:25] <bgardner> Cool, good to close the loop :)
[18:26] <kryten> :)
[18:27] <bgardner> So what did the trick for me was to 'locale-gen en_US en_US.UTF-8', followed by 'dpkg-reconfigure locales', followed by a reboot.
[18:27] <bgardner> Once those were done, LXDE came right up with full menus, everything working as it should.
[18:27] <kryten> Yay! :)
[18:29] <bgardner> All kinds of yay, thanks very much for your help yesterday and have a great week!
[18:29] <kryten> You too - and welcome.
[18:33] <kryten> bgardner: Oh, and thanks for reporting back, of course!
[18:34] <bgardner> Trying to pay it forward; I've gotten a lot of support over the years from "Hey, I found the answer" kind of posts/conversations.
[18:35] <kryten> Yep, me too - that's how the community is supposed to work.
[19:08] <hughes-r> hey, guys. could anyone spare a minute to help me with my audio woes?
[19:50] <hughes-r> anyone? :(
[19:58] <hughes-r> hi. i'm looking for help with my audio issues in lubuntu 15.10. i currently have no sound at all and can't seem to fix this.