[16:49] <shakes808> Morning everyone.  I am redoing my server and want to know what "Publishing applications" is in the software to install section.
[17:36] <dzho> shakes808: on 14.04, I think that would be  agave, font-manager, fontforge, gimp, gimp-data-extras, gimp-gap, gimp-plugin-registry, gimp-ufraw, musescore, openclipart-svg, scribus
[17:36] <dzho> which are the recommends from ubuntustudio-publishing
[17:36] <dzho> this is based on tasksel
[17:38] <shakes808> dzho: Thank you.  I actually just got that same answer in the ubuntu server chat.  Was just about to echo back in here.
[17:39] <dzho> cool
[17:39] <shakes808> this is what they sent me: http://packages.ubuntu.com/wily/ubuntustudio-publishing
[17:39] <dzho> yeah.
[17:39] <dzho> the way I dug that up was to install tasksel, and then
[17:39] <dzho> tasksel --list-tasks
[17:39] <dzho> and I saw the package, and so did
[17:39] <shakes808> after my install finishes, I will try that
[17:39] <dzho> apt-cache show ubuntustudio-publishing
[17:40] <dzho> in general, if in doubt, leave it out, because you can always install it later
[17:40] <dzho> for values of "always" that assume you have a decent network connection
[17:40] <shakes808> yeah, that is what one of the other people said :)
[17:40] <dzho> \o/
[17:41] <dzho> we don't aspire to hivemind, but sometimes it happens :-)
[17:41] <dzho> it's interesting they don't include dia in there
[17:43] <dzho> and musescore is a funny choice for publishing in general, since it's specifically about music notation
[17:43] <dzho> fits in a "music studio" sense but less so in a "graphic design studio" sense
[17:44] <dzho> oh, another big one missing!
[17:44] <dzho> inkscape!
[17:48] <shakes808> haha
[17:53] <dzho> apt-get install gimp scribus inkscape dia
[17:53]  * dzho may look into what those other packages offer at some point
[17:58] <shakes808> hmmm.  install finished and now it won't boot  :(
[18:00] <dzho> :(
[18:01] <shakes808> i can get into the bios
[18:02] <dzho> is it in fact a bios machine or is an efi machine?
[18:02] <dzho> how new, etc
[18:04] <shakes808> the computer is an old DELL 330.  I had Ubuntu 14.04 LTS on this which I just upgraded from the last LTS.  I think something happened to it, because my user wasn't part of sudoer and I couldn't get into ROOT.  So I just went ahead and installed 15.10 on it.  and not it gets past the initial DELL boot screen but then blank.
[18:04] <shakes808> I tried to SSH into it and nothing as well.
[18:05] <shakes808>  :(
[18:07] <shakes808> maybe too old for 15.10?
[18:08] <shakes808> seeing if the usb boots up
[18:09] <shakes808> yes :(
[18:09] <dzho> optiplex 330
[18:09] <dzho> with intel core 2 duo
[18:09] <dzho> if that's it, shouldn't be a problem
[18:10] <dzho> the only age-related problem I know about with regard to hardware has been with machines that didn't support PAE well
[18:10] <dzho> and that has to do with hardware much older than core 2
[18:11] <shakes808> right?! That is what I thought.  :( going to reinstall it
[18:54] <shakes808> i am thinking that 15.10 can't be run on my hardware.  going back to 14.04
[20:58] <shakes808> 14.04 works :) just need to get everything else updated.  thank you for your assistance today dzho
[22:14] <dzho> :)


[05:14] <mappps> hi
[05:14] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[05:33] <mapps> ;]
[08:15] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:19] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:30] <foobarry> i have this song in my head today
[08:30] <foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp2qcCrdBLA
[08:35] <foobarry> is there a way to turn off nicklist in irssi for certain channels? that would be great. big channels i don't care, but < 10 ppl i do need to see the nicks
[09:06] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy World Password Day! (passwordday.org) 😃 🔑 🔒
[09:07] <zmoylan-pi> as long as no one else uses password password i'll be grand...
[09:11] <diplo> I use p@ssword1234 - 12 characters and numbers!!!1=111~!
[09:12] <JamesTait> At parents' evening a few weeks ago, one of the teachers was wanting to get away and had been entrusted with another teacher's account to close off some report.  So he then passed on the username and password to the teacher I was with.
[09:12] <JamesTait> "His password is password...."
[09:14] <diplo> Did you have a word ?
[09:15] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRFHXMQP-QU pretty good password right there
[09:15] <diplo> My girlfriend is ateacher, they have ipads ( quite a lot of them ) there account password is a townname and the year.... this is devices with kids info on it! I couldn't believe it really, they seem so lax about it
[09:15] <JamesTait> I held my tongue, because the words that wanted to come out of my mouth would likely have had me escorted off the premises.
[09:16] <diplo> I have thought about looking into what they should have in place ( even though my kids don't go to this school ) mine might be just as bad
[09:17] <bashrc> given the choice people will choose bad passwords, and so this is why for my own projects I generate random passwords and then get users to write them down
[09:17] <JamesTait> I didn't manage to stifle the snort of disbelief, though, which got me a raised eyebrow.
[09:19] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLE7zsJk4AI is the best password related video
[09:22] <diplo> heh that is good :P
[09:29] <foobarry> anyone remember the bladerunner spoof where he tries to load windows?
[09:31] <zmoylan-pi> would explain why all the robots were homocidal... :-P
[09:44] <diplo> Nope, I may google that
[09:46] <foobarry> i can't find it :( my google fu aint working
[09:47] <zmoylan-pi> this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s2sTif3yS4
[09:49] <foobarry> its a spoof of this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHepKd38pr0
[09:50] <foobarry> he's in his dark house trying to boot windows on that thing and getting BSOD
[10:13] <davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD-MdiUm1_Y song stuck in my head today :)
[11:33] <daftykins> hrmm here's that track Led Zep are being dragged through the courts accused of pilfering for 'Stairway' : https://youtu.be/xd8AVbwB_6E?t=40
[11:36] <foobarry> this predates stiairway?
[11:36] <SuperMatt> daftykins: hasn't thing been going on for years?
[11:37] <daftykins> foobarry: allegedly
[11:38] <daftykins> ah yes allegedly 50 years running, now
[11:39] <SuperMatt> it's one of those legal battles which will keep going on until one side runs out of money
[11:39] <foobarry> stoopid lawyers
[11:39] <SuperMatt> and I can guarantee it won't be Led Zepp
[11:40] <zmoylan-pi> non stupid lawyers, lawyers putting their kids through lawyer school on one job
[11:40] <daftykins> i heard it on the radio and meant to read up on it
[11:41] <daftykins> sounds like a lot of Led Zep's tracks have attracted such attention over the years o0
[11:44] <SuperMatt> problem is, there's no such thing as a song that cannot have some claim put on it
[11:45] <SuperMatt> A band I love, Dream Theater, even name sections of their songs after the tunes that inspired them
[11:45] <daftykins> mmm, all a bit messy - i'd link to the article i found on bloomberg but it has a particularly inappropriate header image that you'd not want to open at work
[11:45] <SuperMatt> they're even on video saying "and this is the inspector gadget section"
[11:45] <zmoylan-pi> well some tunes predate copyright and they are public domain. still get illegal claims on them that have to be beaten off
[11:48] <daftykins> http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-led-zeppelin-trial/img/filing-chart.jpg
[11:48] <daftykins> that's amusing
[11:50] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: my VPN tweaking mission continues :) i have to ride back and remove a ; i added to the config breaking things today :|
[11:51] <daftykins> i've been riding there, setting things up, then riding to my friends art gallery nearby to use their connection for testing before riding home :D
[11:51] <popey> can you not test over 3g?
[11:51] <zmoylan-pi> well ride safe...
[11:51] <daftykins> popey: weirdly where my uncle lives, i get a really shoddy mobile data connection
[11:52] <daftykins> but as the intended uses are services unavailable from my phone, it needs a proper test over broadband really
[11:52] <popey> bummer
[11:52] <daftykins> for example, trying to hit google with a search of "my ip" to see the IP change, was taking north of 40 seconds to load
[11:53] <daftykins> to be honest i think i need to tell him that his 20/1 ADSL service is far too inadequate, needs to move up to the 40/5 VDSL like i'm on
[11:53] <daftykins> openVPN running via UDP was just not even cutting it until i switched it to TCP
[12:00] <daftykins> and then it had upwards of 1.5 seconds of latency routing just a ping O_O
[12:05] <daftykins> ah well, we wouldn't want it to be easy now, would we? :)
[12:32] <daftykins> https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/05/04/apple-stole-my-music-no-seriously/
[12:32]  * daftykins chuckles
[12:32] <SuperMatt> yeah, I looked at a bit of that
[12:32] <SuperMatt> completely the wrong thing for apple to do
[12:35] <daftykins> i raised an eyebrow when a client had sync'd a new iPod to her desktop iMac, but on pulling it out down in Spain to play some music discovered it was empty
[12:35] <daftykins> but Apple things just work! ;)
[12:39] <diddledan> https://twitter.com/rit/status/549814266094551040
[12:40] <diddledan> daftykins: idevices do just work. they just don’t work the way you expect.
[12:40] <daftykins> :D
[13:30] <foobarry> anyone on libreoffice5 able to do a test for me?
[13:31] <SuperMatt> sure
[13:31] <foobarry> ta
[13:31] <SuperMatt> <IP_ADDRESS>
[13:31] <foobarry> document with text in it. unfocus selection by clikcing browser or something else. click back on LO5 doc and it selects a block of text
[13:33] <SuperMatt> nope, nothing of the sort happening for me
[13:34] <foobarry> thanks
[13:34] <foobarry> <IP_ADDRESS>
[13:35] <SuperMatt> what os are you running? I can quickly spin up a vm
[13:35] <foobarry> its ok, i will ask on elementary #channel
[13:35] <SuperMatt> cool cool
[14:33] <SuperMatt> right, who in here was keeping track of the number of jobs I've had? MooDoo?
[14:33] <DJones> SuperMatt: Off the top of my head, 356
[14:33] <SuperMatt> one of those numbers is correct, and another will be correct as of June 6th
[14:34] <DJones> 5 & 6 then I guess
[14:34] <SuperMatt> correct!
[14:34]  * DJones stops hacking SuperMatt's computer
[14:36] <daftykins> crikey!
[14:36] <daftykins> hopefully this was your choice, SuperMatt!
[14:37] <SuperMatt> yup
[14:39] <DJones> Its always seemed like that for the people I speak to IRL that work in IT, they change jobs fairly regularly asprojects finish or change
[14:39] <SuperMatt> that's how it goes
[14:40] <SuperMatt> IT skills are always in demand, and because you learn so much on one job, it's easy to apply that to the next and get paid more for it
[14:40] <DJones> Yep, although they're framed as permanent positions, in reality, they're project jobs
[14:40] <SuperMatt> The next one feels like it could well be a little more permanent for me
[14:40] <DJones> Good luck with it anywy
[14:40] <SuperMatt> thanks
[14:41] <daftykins> indeed, gl!
[14:44] <davmor2> SuperMatt: pfff whippersnapper multiply it by 5 or 6 and you get closer to mine ;)  But then I was in manual jobs for a long long time.
[14:46] <SuperMatt> I'm 31, that's an average of a new job every two years out of Uni... actually, that's not too bad
[14:55] <foobarry> SuperMatt: you're leaving rackspace?
[14:55] <foobarry> i did about 5 jobs by age 30. then 2 jobs since then.
[14:58] <SuperMatt> foobarry: I left there 6 months ago
[14:58] <SuperMatt> I'm leaving this one now too
[14:58] <foobarry> :o
[14:58] <foobarry> why did you leave rs?
[14:58] <SuperMatt> because management kept adding too much work without adding staff
[14:59] <foobarry> i had an email from their recruiter the other day
[14:59] <foobarry> and your next job sucked?
[15:00] <davmor2> SuperMatt: I was a temp driving for years so I held 30-40 positions there, prior to that I did all sorts and often got made redundant last in first out policies and all that, and then finally I had 6 long term positions Driving for companies rather than temping and then canonical :)
[15:03] <SuperMatt> foobarry: not that it sucked, I haven't really been engaged in it, and the next job is pretty damn difficult to refuse
[15:03] <foobarry> google?
[15:03] <foobarry> new google
[15:03] <foobarry> uber driver?
[15:03] <foobarry> facebook?
[15:04] <foobarry> canonononononical?
[15:04] <SuperMatt> Sky, actually
[15:04] <foobarry> how's the journey?
[15:04] <foobarry> aren't they far away?
[15:04] <SuperMatt> An hour, so not too bad
[15:05] <foobarry> ok. rs was in hayes though, which is a show stopper for most ppl
[15:05] <foobarry> i know a guy at sky, his journey is 2hrs each way
[15:06] <SuperMatt> yeah, it can be mental, but I can scoot round the side of london
[16:01] <diddledan> https://twitter.com/islamscifi/status/727905700861587456
[16:01] <diddledan> I like that
[16:27] <daftykins> ;)
[20:02] <diddledan> oh, it’s electionday
[20:03] <diddledan> oops
[20:12] <zmoylan-pi> vote early, vote often :-)
[20:12] <zmoylan-pi> or vote late and tamper with the voting boxes later... :-P
[20:13] <diddledan> lmao
[20:13] <daftykins> i wondered why that curtain had a raspy-pi hanging from it, it's making sure the coast is clear whilst zmoylan-pi fiddles the numbers!
[20:14]  * diddledan fiddles with zmoylan-pi’s numbers.. oh myy
[20:15] <zmoylan-pi> my number is pi... all the way down...
[20:15]  * diddledan writes that down
[20:15] <zmoylan-pi> fiddle with that and you break the universe
[20:15] <diddledan> jeez, how long is this thing?!
[20:16] <zmoylan-pi> there was an interesting story on how many digits nasa uses of pi for calculating orbits recently
[20:17] <diddledan> tv series to watch: quantico.
[20:17] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: they use all of them, no?
[20:17] <zmoylan-pi> you'd think nasa would be sticklers for accuracy and so use a lot but nope... and the margin of error even with those few is tiny in a space the size of a solar system iirc
[20:18] <daftykins> lemme catculate that - https://i.imgur.com/uwmIj3I.gifv
[20:18] <diddledan> wow, that cat is a genius?!
[20:18] <daftykins> ikr!
[20:18] <diddledan> he’s like newton reincarnated!
[20:19] <daftykins> mewton
[20:19] <daftykins> ;D
[20:20] <zmoylan-pi> well newton invented the cat flap so he prepared for his comeback :-)
[20:20] <diddledan> lol
[20:29] <zmoylan-pi> probably the biggest time saving device invented ever :-)


[00:06] <mup> PR snapd#6133 opened: tests: fix how pinentry is prepared for new gpg v 2.1 and 2.2 <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6133>
[02:52] <mup> PR snapd#6134 opened: tests: skip opensuse from interfaces-openvswitch-support test <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6134>
[06:14] <mborzecki> morning
[06:31] <zyga> good morning
[06:34] <mborzecki> zyga: hey, i usually stay away from the computer over the weekends, but i tried 2.36.1 snapd in opensuse TW, seems to be working fine, nvidia, basic AA
[06:34] <zyga> that's great, thank you for trying!
[07:36] <kjackal> hello snappy people, did we do a core release?
[07:38] <mvo> kjackal: we have not made a stable release yet, 2.36.1 is still under QA
[07:45] <zyga> hey mvo
[07:45] <mvo> zyga: good morning!
[07:45] <zyga> hey, just getting into the office
[07:47] <mborzecki> mvo: hey, had to restart travis job in 6039 as it timeouted
[07:47] <mvo> mborzecki: :( ok
[07:47] <mvo> mborzecki: thank you
[07:48] <mborzecki> mvo: heh, and another restart, was it the same yday?
[07:49] <zyga> mvo: what should I attack first? the bug that a customer found or anything else?
[07:49] <mvo> zyga: please check my PR on top of yours, it has a spread test. I'm cleaning the mock gpio a bit more as we speak but the basic idea is the same. but you can also wait for ~10min, then I shall push this small cleanup. either way is fine
[07:50] <zyga> super, I'll check it out
[08:04] <mvo> zyga: we should probably also switch the other gpio spread tests to the new method (6128). I pushed the updated code I may need to tweak a bit more, spread test is still running but this should allow you to see what is going on
[08:05] <pstolowski|afk> morning
[08:06] <zyga> mvo: thanks, I'm reading reviews and should get to yours in a moment
[08:06] <zyga> hey pawel
[08:08] <zyga> mvo: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6128/commits/dd08e0ed21fe2dd9030887d386f0971391dd0459 hmm
[08:08] <mup> PR #6128: overlord/ifacestate: setup security backends phased by backends first <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6128>
[08:08] <zyga> mvo: the reason I did it that way was to not change the behaviour of other code
[08:08] <zyga> that's not something we catch in tests today
[08:08] <zyga> but this changes the order of setup in all the interfaces
[08:08] <zyga> whereas the initial branch was just changing it for gpio (in practice, because that is the only consumer)
[08:08] <zyga> I'd like to postpone that tweak to 2.37
[08:09] <mvo> zyga: my PR is aimed for edge
[08:09] <pstolowski> zyga: hey, we need to talk about the mapper and implicit slots, can we have a chat in 10-15 mins?
[08:10] <mvo> zyga: we need to find out if the user who is affected is fine with refreshing to edge or if we wants something else
[08:10] <mvo> zyga: but unless we know that I think its ok to build something for edge
[08:10] <zyga> mvo: I think edge might be okay for them but regardless I think we should do a deeper inspection of the impact of the change in ordering
[08:10] <zyga> note that I fused the setup of the principal snap and the affected snaps
[08:11] <zyga> so now we do things in quite a different order in practice
[08:11] <mup> PR snapd#6135 opened: packaging/arch: fix bash completions path <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6135>
[08:11] <mvo> zyga: fair enough, I feel slightly uneasy about this too. is gpio the only thing that uses systemd?
[08:11] <zyga> yes
[08:11] <mborzecki> trivial PR ^^
[08:11] <zyga> don't get me wrong, I think what you did is _desired_
[08:11] <zyga> it's just that I wanted to do that separately, once the fire is put out
[08:11] <zyga> because it has bigger impact
[08:11] <mvo> zyga: yeah
[08:11] <zyga> and it may not be as fully tested
[08:11] <mvo> zyga: ok
[08:11] <zyga> since our unit tests use one test backend
[08:12] <zyga> they don't exercise those interactions
[08:12] <mvo> ok
[08:12] <zyga> so we only have spread tests to, hopefully, catch any issues
[08:12] <mvo> pstolowski: 6132 should be an easy merge
[08:13] <pstolowski> looking
[08:13] <mvo> zyga: ok, lets cherry pick the spread test to your PR and we can discuss the approach in the standup
[08:13] <zyga> ok
[08:15] <mup> PR snapd#6132 closed: many: some small doc comment fixes in recent hotplug code <Created by pedronis> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6132>
[08:18] <zyga> mvo: one thing I don't get about the spread test, where is the GPIO pin definition?
[08:18] <zyga> the slot that is
[08:21] <mvo> zyga: in prepare.sh
[08:21] <mup> PR snapd#6136 opened: tests: run interfaces-openvswitch-support on arch again, the arch bug is fixed <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6136>
[08:21] <mvo> zyga: it is part of the core snap
[08:21] <zyga> ah, I din't notice thatt
[08:21] <mvo> zyga: we unpack and modify the core snap during setup to add one
[08:21] <mvo> zyga: its quite hidden :(
[08:22] <mvo> zyga: also it is not done for core18 so there is work there as well, I want to look at this too
[08:22] <mvo> zyga: plus we have some existing gpio tests which can also be simplified
[08:26] <mvo> zyga: thanks for the review, I address your points now :) I pushed a small tweak already
[08:26] <zyga> mvo: thank *you* for writing this :)
[08:26] <zyga> I didn't think about mocking the whole thing this way
[08:28] <mborzecki> mvo: one more fix needed in 6039, will push it in a bit
[08:28] <mvo> mborzecki: what is the fix ? spread test that checks the error message? thanks for handling this!
[08:29] <mborzecki> mvo: yup, the spread test
[08:38] <mup> PR snapd#6131 closed: store:  remove unused currentSnap and currentSnapJSON <Simple 😃> <Created by chipaca> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6131>
[08:41] <pedronis> pstolowski: hi, I finished reading the already landed hot plug code, thanks for looking at my small doc tweaks. Of that the only bit I wasnt sure about is hotplug/spec.go,  it makes it look like a backend but it's not, also not sure why it's organized exactly like it is, but anyway nothing deep, can be reconsidered when I get further. I will start reviewing new code today, when I'm not in meetings :)
[08:47] <pstolowski> pedronis: thanks. sure, we can discuss if hotplug spec should be re-organized. it's an API for interfaces, not sure if this is clear from what already landed, but the camera interface is an example of how this is used - https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6098 ; i've done it like that to follow the general pattern of *.Specifificaton objects that we pass to interfaces, this was from suggestions from early reviews
[08:47] <mup> PR #6098: interfaces/builtin: support hotplug for camera interface <Hotplug 🔌> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6098>
[08:48] <pedronis> pstolowski: yes, I understand but is used very differently, I'm not sure if the similiraty helps or is confusing
[08:48] <pedronis> anyway there is no action atm
[08:49] <pedronis> just pointing out that I wondered a bit about this bit
[08:49] <pstolowski> sure, i see
[08:55] <mvo> zyga: updated 6128
[08:55] <zyga> mmm
[08:56] <zyga> neat, thank you!
[09:00] <pstolowski> zyga: do you have some time to talk about mapper/implicit slots?
[09:04] <pstolowski> #6124 is trivial, needs 2nd review
[09:04] <mup> PR #6124: tests: simple reproducer for snap try and hooks bug <Simple 😃> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6124>
[09:09] <zyga> pstolowski: I think so
[09:15] <pstolowski> zyga: standup HO?
[09:15] <mvo> pstolowski: occupied ;)
[09:15] <pstolowski> :)
[09:16] <zyga> pstolowski: can we have a call on tg?
[09:16] <zyga> pstolowski: just need to print one last invoice
[09:16] <zyga> sorry, monthly accounting time
[09:17] <pstolowski> zyga: sure. nb, i recommend switching to queterly ;)
[09:17] <zyga> queterly?
[09:18] <zyga> ah
[09:18] <zyga> I get it
[09:18] <pstolowski> telegram is fine
[09:19] <zyga> one sec, printer didn't respond
[09:32] <mup> PR snapd#6130 closed: snap: make Epoch's MarshalJSON not simplify <Simple 😃> <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6130>
[09:32] <zyga> pstolowski: ok, you have my full attention now
[09:32] <zyga> pstolowski: is the HO still used?
[09:34] <zyga> seems to be
[09:34] <pstolowski> zyga: yep
[09:34] <zyga> pstolowski: how about https://meet.google.com/fsz-xtpa-xqb?ijlm=1542101675152&adhoc=1&hs=125&authuser=0
[09:51] <mup> PR snapd#6039 closed: snapstate: do not allow classic mode for strict snaps <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6039>
[09:51] <mborzecki> yay!
[09:52] <popey> double yay
[10:01] <mvo> mborzecki: yay indeed - thank you!
[10:02] <mborzecki> mvo: thank you for picking it up in the first place :)
[10:07] <mvo> mborzecki: silly question about 6136 - the bug that prevented the openvswitch-support test to run is now fixed. but the test still fails. do we just need to blacklist it or is it something simple (like a missing package dependency)?
[10:08] <mborzecki> mvo: i think we may need to start uuidd.socket before the test (at least on arch)
[10:13] <mvo> mborzecki: aha, right - this does not happen on package install automatically
[10:13] <mup> PR snapd#6137 opened: snap: make Epoch default to {[0],[0]} on load from yaml <Simple 😃> <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6137>
[10:24] <zyga> I will need to work from the road one more time today
[10:24] <zyga> need to sign the paperwork and say goodbye to my car today
[10:24] <zyga> I will focus on reviews while on the road
[10:30] <mup> PR core18#88 closed: hooks: make ld-so symlink in /lib64 relative <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/core18/pull/88>
[10:30] <zyga> random test failure from reviews:
[10:30] <zyga> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/6mMG7HK9/
[10:31] <mup> PR core18#83 closed: add swapfile support (ported from ubuntu-core-config) <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/core18/pull/83>
[10:32] <zyga> pedronis: question about an error I saw over weekend:
[10:33] <zyga> zyga@pi2-2:~$ sudo snap refresh
[10:33] <zyga> error: too early for operation, device not yet seeded or device model not acknowledged
[10:33] <zyga> pedronis: I updated the timezone, time shifted one hour forward
[10:33] <pedronis> that check is not time dependent afaik
[10:33] <zyga> pedronis: that device then went into "busted mode"
[10:34] <zyga> not sure what happened
[10:34] <pedronis> ah
[10:34] <zyga> I have it disconnected to inspect
[10:34] <zyga> perhaps some tasks didn't run
[10:34] <pedronis> it's really busted if it thinks is not seeded anymore
[10:34] <pedronis> or it lost its model
[10:34] <zyga> it went from "stable released on cdimage" to stable
[10:34] <zyga> just flash and refresh
[10:34] <zyga> I'll collect more data and report it
[10:36] <mvo> doko: hey, could you please click on "Request builds" in https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-service/+snap/core18  and do an amd64 build for me? I don't have permissions to do this myself anymore :/ (or someone else from foundations maybe?)
[10:42] <Chipaca> zyga: if you're in review-mode, 6137 is nice an' easy :-)
[10:43] <Chipaca> it was a tiny part of #6052 but stands on its own
[10:44] <mup> PR #6052: snap, store, overlod/snapstate: always send epochs <Created by chipaca> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6052>
[10:44] <Chipaca> and will make the actually-send-epochs pr that much easier to review
[10:53] <mborzecki> hmm fake store does not send snap type :/
[10:54] <mup> PR snapd#6124 closed: tests: simple reproducer for snap try and hooks bug <Simple 😃> <Created by stolowski> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6124>
[10:54] <mvo> mborzecki: uh, I thought we fixed that :(
[11:24] <zyga> I’m in review mode but signing papers now
[11:25] <Chipaca> mvo: isn't there more than one fake store?
[11:41] <mup> PR snapd#6138 opened: overlord/ifacestate: use remapper when checking if system snap is installed <Hotplug 🔌> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6138>
[11:42] <pstolowski> zyga: does this make sense? ^
[11:51] <Chipaca> this epoch vs *epoch things gets annoying
[11:51] <mup> PR snapd#6134 closed: tests: skip opensuse from interfaces-openvswitch-support test <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Merged by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6134>
[11:55] <mup> PR snapd#6129 closed: data/completion: pass documented arguments to completion functions <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6129>
[11:56] <zyga> pstolowski|afk: done
[11:57] <zyga> Chipaca: 6137 ready
[11:58] <mup> PR snapd#6137 closed: snap: make Epoch default to {[0],[0]} on load from yaml <Simple 😃> <Created by chipaca> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6137>
[12:01] <mup> PR snapd#6139 opened: snap, store, overlord/snapshotstate: drop epoch pointers <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6139>
[12:10] <Chipaca> zyga: you'll like 6139 but it's not simple
[12:10] <Chipaca> bah. It's simple. It's also long.
[12:10] <Chipaca> relatively
[12:24] <ogra> cjwatson, i have a prob with stage-packages when cross building, i have tired three variants yet: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/XpRF9ND5tf/ the first one gets me a build error telling me i need "dpkg --add-architecture armhf", the latter two are completely ignored, am i doing anything wrong or do i need a pecial part that calls dpkg --add-architecture first ?
[12:25] <ogra> *special
[12:25] <ogra> note this works fine with a local build
[12:27] <ogra> (i had the impression with the recent architecture changes on the buildds such things should be possible without extra hacks)
[12:32] <cjwatson> ogra: I really have no idea, I'm sorry.  I would not have expected this to be at all affected by recent changes
[12:33] <cjwatson> All we did in LP was arrange to understand the syntax enough to dispatch builds to the right architectures
[12:33] <zyga> Looking
[12:33] <cjwatson> This is mostly on the snapcraft side AFAIK
[12:33] <ogra> ok, but we dont automatically add all possible arches to the sources.lists
[12:33] <cjwatson> We do not, at present
[12:34]  * Chipaca ~> lunch
[12:34] <ogra> i'll try a part that call "dpkg --add-architecture armhf" then, lets see
[12:34] <ogra> *calls
[12:34] <cjwatson> Maybe also apt update, not sure
[12:34] <ogra> yep
[12:34] <ogra> (was to lazy to type that out :) )
[12:35] <pstolowski> pedronis: can you take a look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6138 (it's trivial)?
[12:35] <mup> PR #6138: overlord/ifacestate: use remapper when checking if system snap is installed <Hotplug 🔌> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6138>
[12:36] <pedronis> pstolowski: in a bit, about to go to my dentist appt
[12:36] <pstolowski> sure
[12:40] <zyga> Chipaca: reviewed
[12:40] <Chipaca> who's best to pick up a custom store contact?
[12:41] <zyga> Dunno
[12:41] <Chipaca> JamieBennett: ^?
[12:41] <Chipaca> zyga: thanks
[12:41] <JamieBennett> Chipaca: feel free to pass them on to me
[12:43] <Chipaca> JamieBennett: @'ed you on the forum
[12:43] <Chipaca> JamieBennett: thanks
[12:43] <ogra> cjwatson, FYI ... seemss to have worked
[12:43] <Chipaca> now yes, lunch
[12:44] <ogra> ARGH !
[12:44] <ogra> Store upload failed:
[12:44] <ogra>     ('Connection aborted.', gaierror(-3, 'Temporary failure in name resolution'))
[12:44] <ogra> i hate when that happens !!
[12:45] <cjwatson> You and me both
[12:47] <cjwatson> I've asked for the haywire worker to be killed
[12:54] <mup> PR snapd#6140 opened: tests, fakestore: extend refresh tests with parallel installed snaps <Parallel installs ⛓> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6140>
[12:57] <zyga> mborzecki: will you have time to look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6111
[12:57] <mup> PR #6111: packaging/opensuse: move most logic to snapd.mk <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6111>
[12:57] <zyga> Nothing urgent
[12:57] <mborzecki> zyga: i'm going out to pick up the kids in a bit, i can do that later or during the standup
[12:58] <zyga> Sure
[12:58] <zyga> Looking at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6104 now
[12:58] <mup> PR #6104: snapctl: add "services" <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6104>
[12:59] <Chipaca> zyga: I need to tweak that pr
[13:00] <Chipaca> also i need to actually go do something about lunch
[13:00] <Chipaca> drat
[13:00]  * Chipaca rips himself away
[13:24] <mup> PR snapd#6136 closed: tests: run interfaces-openvswitch-support on arch again, the arch bug is fixed <Created by mvo5> <Closed by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6136>
[13:41] <cachio> plars, cwayne, hey, could you please confirm if 2.36.1 is ready for candidate?
[13:41] <cachio> thanks
[13:56] <zyga> Chipaca: sure, let me know
[14:01] <mborzecki> Chipaca: standup
[14:20] <popey> cjwatson: got a developer reporting the name resolution error on build.snapcraft.io
[14:21] <popey> apolitech is the developer account
[14:26] <popey> hello APolihron :)
[14:28] <cjwatson> popey: how long ago?
[14:28] <mup> PR snapcraft#2403 opened: project_loader: add git to build-packages for version: git <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2403>
[14:28] <popey> APolihron: ^ When did it happen?
[14:28] <cjwatson> never mind
[14:39] <pedronis> Chipaca: did you see my pm with the link?
[14:40] <APolihron_> hey all! so i've change the yalm file from my github projects to build only for a amd64 , bump up the release number and the grade to stable but i get build, fail to release when using snapcraft.io build serv
[14:40] <APolihron_> this is one of the project that will not release
[14:40] <APolihron_> https://github.com/apolitech/Udemy/blob/master/snap/snapcraft.yaml
[14:41] <APolihron_> and this is the error Error:('Connection aborted.', gaierror(-3, 'Temporary failure in name resolution'))
[14:42] <cjwatson> APolihron_: This is https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1792920 - I've asked for the worker to be killed
[14:42] <mup> Bug #1792920: celery workers sometimes end up cursed and produce OOPSes for all SnapStoreUploadJobs <oops> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792920>
[14:50] <APolihron_> so how can i help or what i need to do?
[14:51] <cjwatson> APolihron_: wait until I tell you to try again, then try again
[14:52] <cjwatson> (I'm waiting for a sysadmin to get back to me)
[14:54] <APolihron_> ok
[14:54] <APolihron_> thanks
[15:04] <cjwatson> APolihron_: try again now
[15:11] <mborzecki> heh, our file.sh helpers are not eally working well with char devices, the checks all use `if [ -f ... ]` which is onviously not true for paths that are not regular files
[15:18] <mup> PR snapd#6141 opened: interfaces: export gpio pin in AppArmorConnectedPlug <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6141>
[15:18] <pstolowski> mborzecki: oh wow, nice finding!
[15:19] <mvo> pedronis: sorry to put more burden on your shoulders - I pushed 6141 which contains an alternative fix for the gpio problem. your input on this would be most welcome
[15:19] <mvo> pedronis: it sidesteps the problem entirely by avoiding the dependency between appamror and systemd on the expense of some extra code in the gpio interface
[15:24] <pedronis> mvo: so we understand we are both exporting it permanently (across reboots) via systemd units, and explicit in the app armor backend?
[15:24] <pedronis> s/we/I/
[15:28] <mvo> pedronis: correct
[15:29] <mvo> pedronis: this way we avoid the dependency that the systemd backend needs to start the unit before the apparmor backend can stat the symlink
[15:29] <pedronis> mvo: ok, I left a question there
[15:30] <APolihron_> cjwatson working, thanks
[15:30] <mvo> pedronis: thanks, I will look at this and reply inline there is a tocttou race here I think, both places check. otoh we don't run this is parallel yet so it should be fine
[15:31] <pedronis> mvo: as I said we let go of the lock for backends, so whether is run in parallel or not is a bit unclear
[15:32] <mvo> pedronis: so the race would be if two tasks both want to export gpio30 ?
[15:32] <pedronis> or we might have the unit
[15:32] <pedronis> and systemd is doing strange things
[15:32] <pedronis> or the user
[15:33] <pedronis> mvo: it seems at least that if you fail to write, you need to check if by chance the link is there
[15:33] <pedronis> if it is ignore the error
[15:33] <pedronis> that's my 2cts
[15:33] <mvo> pedronis: indeed, that is a good suggestion
[15:33] <mvo> pedronis: we have the same problem with the unit, there is also a test || write in there which might race
[15:33] <mvo> pedronis: I look into it, thanks!
[15:34] <pedronis> np
[15:34] <cachio> niemeyer, hey, I need to save the images we use for beta/edge validation
[15:34]  * pedronis break
[15:34] <mvo> pedronis: on a meta level (not urgent) we need some suggestion which of the approaches we should take to fix the actual bug. zyga and I are not of the same opinion about what approach is the one to pick :)
[15:34] <mvo> pedronis: enjoy your break, not urgent
[15:34] <cachio> niemeyer, do you think we can store them in the gcloud filestorage?
[15:35] <cachio> niemeyer, we are not gonna use more than 5GB
[15:41] <micah> hi, i need to symlink /snap to /rw/snap on my system, but if I do that, then the core mount job fails because of: snap-core-5742.mount: Mount path /snap/core/5742 is not canonical (contains a symlink) -- is there some way I can override that?
[15:41]  * cachio lunch
[15:45] <micah> starting with systemd 238, mount units will fail if the mount point needs to follow a symbolic link
[15:49] <ppisati> ogra: for the wifi issue you were mentioning some time ago, could you test this kernel snap? -> https://code.launchpad.net/~p-pisati/+snap/raspi2-test/+build/377679/+files/pi2-kernel_4.4.0-1101.109_armhf.snap
[15:50] <ogra> ppisati, will do
[15:56] <pedronis> mvo: what are main zyga objections about?  the duplication, the fact that is new unproven code, the fact that is on the plug side?
[16:12] <zyga> That it feels like layering violation. No other interface code modified the system
[16:12] <pedronis> zyga: modified in which sense?
[16:13] <zyga> That it feels like layering violation. No other interface code modified the system
[16:13] <pedronis> ?
[16:14] <pedronis> zyga: modify in which sense? they all touch files on the system? and for sure the systemd code is creating a unit that modifies the system?
[16:14] <zyga> Writing to sysfs
[16:15] <zyga> Exporting GPIO from the kernel to userspace in a method that computes apparmor snippet
[16:15] <pedronis> ok, that's clearer
[16:16] <zyga> Systems unit is just defined
[16:16] <zyga> Not on disk
[16:16] <zyga> All changes are done by backend
[16:16] <mup> PR snapd#6139 closed: snap, store, overlord/snapshotstate: drop epoch pointers <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6139>
[16:17] <zyga> Systemd specification holds units in memory
[16:17] <pedronis> zyga: I understood
[16:17] <mup> PR snapd#6142 opened: overlord/snapstate, store: always send epochs <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6142>
[16:34] <pedronis> zyga: mvo: at the moment all considered #6128 seems my favorite fix, but it depends whether we think we need this also for 2.36.x
[16:35] <mup> PR #6128: overlord/ifacestate: setup security backends phased by backends first <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6128>
[16:38] <zyga> pedronis: that's fine though this implementation has slightly bigger impact than the first one I pushed (with the special casing of systemd backend)
[16:38] <zyga> pedronis: after a QA pass I don't mind landing that at all
[16:40] <pedronis> zyga: that's why I said it depends whether we need something to backport
[16:40] <pedronis> zyga: anyway I think mvo is offline changing location
[16:40] <pedronis> atm
[16:40] <zyga> ack
[16:40] <zyga> I'll get onto other things
[16:41] <zyga> I'm happy to discuss this when needed
[16:48] <pedronis> zyga: what are you working on atm?  back to user namespaces?
[16:48] <zyga> yes
[16:48] <pedronis> ok, thanks
[16:48] <zyga> I will do some reviews of pawel's work as well
[16:52] <pstolowski> zyga: ty!
[17:39] <Chipaca> error: cannot install snap file: cannot refresh snap "basic" as new epoch (2) can't read old epoch (0)
[17:39] <Chipaca> looks like it might work
[17:40] <roadmr> epochs ftwwwww
[17:41] <Chipaca> that's from a local install
[17:42] <pedronis> roadmr: yes, Chipaca is progressing on them
[17:42] <roadmr> yya :)
[17:43] <zyga> Chipaca: _neat_
[17:43] <zyga> snaps get serious 🙂
[17:54]  * Chipaca mostly EODs
[17:57] <Chipaca> a little early because the chorizo + split lentil stew smell is distracting me too much
[18:49] <zyga> o/
[18:59]  * cachio afk
[19:33] <mvo> zyga: you had a chat about gpio? can you point me to a pastebin or give me a tl;dr summary?
[19:34] <zyga> with Samuele?
[19:34] <mvo> zyga: yes
[19:34] <mvo> zyga: i.e. should I stop messing around with 6141 ?
[19:34] <zyga> I only said what my objections are
[19:35] <pedronis> I wrote this: <pedronis> zyga: mvo: at the moment all considered #6128 seems my favorite fix, but it depends whether we think we need this also for 2.36.x
 PR #6128: overlord/ifacestate: setup security backends phased by backends first <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6128>
 pedronis: that's fine though this implementation has slightly bigger impact than the first one I pushed (with the special casing of systemd backend)
 pedronis: after a QA pass I don't mind landing that at all
[19:35] <mup> PR #6128: overlord/ifacestate: setup security backends phased by backends first <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6128>
 zyga: that's why I said it depends whether we need something to backport
 zyga: anyway I think mvo is offline changing location
[19:35] <zyga> we did not discuss more than that
[19:35] <pedronis> we can chat more in the morning, but we do need to try to converge, and also decide about 2.36.x
[19:36] <zyga> I agree
[19:38] <mvo> zyga: ok, thanks
[19:39] <mvo> pedronis: thank you as well
[19:39] <mvo> it looks like they all need reviews anyway, so lets sync up in the morning
[19:54] <mvo> ackk: core18 with the ld-so symlink fix is in edge now, please let me know if you it is not sufficient
[21:01] <jdstrand> roadmr: hi! whenever its convenient, can you pull 1155 of the review-tools?
[21:01] <mup> PR #1155: integration-tests: remove the integration daemon tests <Created by elopio> <Merged by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1155>
[21:01] <roadmr> jdstrand: sure thing!
[21:02] <jdstrand> roadmr: thanks
[21:03] <Caelum> zyga: thank you so much for finally doing the snapd update, to be honest I've been using flatpak spotify in the meantime
[21:05] <Caelum> zyga: if you ever want help with anything, just ping me
[21:47] <mup> PR snapcraft#2404 opened: cli: handle yaml errors for cleanbuild <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2404>
[23:25] <mup> PR snapd#6143 opened: cmd: install snap-discard-ns in "make hack" <Simple 😃> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6143>
[23:28] <mup> PR snapd#6144 opened: cmd: handle tumbleweed and leap in autogen.sh <Simple 😃> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6144>
[23:29] <ijohnson> zyga: sorry I forgot but I just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1803210 for you to look at
[23:29] <mup> PR snapd#6145 opened: cmd/snap-confine: capture initialized per-user mount ns <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6145>
[23:30] <mup> Bug #1803210: snap's device cgroup is not discarded upon uninstall <snapd:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1803210>
[23:30] <ijohnson> no rush it's a low priority


[00:20] <jose> pleia2: ping
[00:21] <jose> would it be ok to x-post a goodbye post from the lococouncil to the members who are leaving to the fridge?
[01:54] <pleia2> jose: I thought about it after I posted :\ it's a bit late now
[01:55] <pleia2> the CC has thanked them privately and stuff
[07:10] <jose> well, if so then we'll leave it like this
[07:10] <jose> thanks!
[15:53]  * PaulW2U wonders where all the summary writers have gone. Down to the last half dozen now  :(
[20:23] <PaulW2U> pleia2: summaries now finished - with a little help from an anonymous wombat :o)
[21:26] <pleia2> \o/


[11:34] <ozcanesen> hey i have a foss project, will you translate it to your language? https://translations.launchpad.net/terra thanks
[14:00] <Asta> ozcanesen: Is it more like Terminator or Guake ? :)
[14:05] <ozcanesen> Asta, sorry i was afk
[14:05] <ozcanesen> i think its more like Guake
[14:11] <Asta> ozcanesen: No problem ! I will take a look at the translations
[14:11] <ozcanesen> Asta, thanks it will not take your time much, only 100 strings
[14:20] <Asta> ozcanesen: What do you mean with "Always use primary" ? :/
[14:21] <ozcanesen> You can select which monitor do you want to show main window
[14:21] <ozcanesen> or you can select "always use primary"
[14:21] <Asta> ok, I wanted to be sure about the monitor :)
[14:45] <Asta> ozcanesen: For the 79 - "Restrore defaults", I think it is 'Restore' :)
[14:46] <ozcanesen> ah thanks i will fix it
[14:55] <Asta> ozcanesen: I think it's done :)
[14:55] <Asta> Perhaps improvable but comprehensive I think
[14:56] <ozcanesen> Asta, thanks :) i love free software community
[15:00] <Asta> Do you plan to build a Ubuntu-version? :)
[15:00] <Asta> Oh, it's in python, perhaps I can run it with the source o/
[15:21] <Asta> ozcanesen: Woow, I launched it on Ubuntu, it's great ! :D
[15:21] <Asta> It's a Guake who can be splitted <3
[15:22] <Asta> But i cannot run the setup.py, I installed the dependecies but they are errors...
[15:48] <ozcanesen> whic distro are you using?
[15:48] <Asta> Ubuntu :$
[15:48] <Asta> 13.04
[15:49] <ozcanesen> actually there is a ppa
[15:49] <ozcanesen> https://launchpad.net/~ozcanesen/+archive/terra-terminal
[15:49] <Asta> ozcanesen: Thanks, I will look for it !
[15:50] <Asta> Thanks !


[03:05] <AdonisK> Hey guyz, anyone else having issues signing in google in the blue online accounts (which I guess is Gnome's one)
[03:06] <AdonisK> I'm using the gnome3 ppa
[03:39] <darkxst> AdonisK, havent seen any issues
[03:40] <darkxst> are you using staging ppa as well?
[10:33] <DarkEra> hi guys, just a question. I've been using Ubuntu Gnome 13.04 for a while now with the Gnome ppa added to get 3.8. Now today with the updates that i pulled in i noticed that some were for unity. I rebooted the system after the updates were completed and out of curiosity i checked the session from the login screen. Now i'm not sure if it was there before but there's a Ubuntu session among it that starts the Unity desktop. Is this normal for Ubu
[10:33] <DarkEra> ntu Gnome?
[10:34] <DarkEra> i thought it was a pure Gnome experience without a Unity session
[12:38] <bersace_nss> DarkEra: that's normal. Ubuntu patched gnome-session to provide a "Ubuntu session"
[12:38] <bersace_nss> it's the same package
[12:39] <DarkEra> bersace_nss, ok, thanks for the info :)
[12:46] <bersace_nss> anyone know why empathy 3.8 is not uploaded ? I guess there is some mess with UOA…
[22:46] <Mikegwald> Hi anyone have any issues upgrade to gnome 3.8 ?
[22:47] <atrus> i'm sure somebody did
[23:01] <mikegwald> hi guys
[23:01] <mikegwald> anyone have any issues trying to upgrade to gnome 3.8 ?
[23:03] <mikegwald> anyone home ?
[23:41] <Logix_> Hello, is anyone available to answer a quick question of mine?


[00:18] <JackFrost> But at least it's snappy! :>
[03:46] <JackFrost> Holy crap, batman.  That notes changelog is loooooong.
[08:55] <knome> JackFrost, you didn't answer my question, and, is it really? (snappy?)
[08:55] <JackFrost> knome: I haven't the slightest clue about the snap store.
[08:56] <knome> also, do snaps still store their data in ~/snap and path isn't configurable?
[08:57] <JackFrost> ~/.local/share/snap would make more sense, depending on what type of data.
[08:57] <knome> i used the blender snap, and it might have been configuration
[08:58] <knome> the gist was that a snap created a directory visible on my homedir
[08:59] <knome> and that's so annoying that i haven't even thought about other reasons to potentially (dis)like snap
[09:00] <JackFrost> I have ssh access to a 22.04.3 host with snapd installed, I can maybe check..
[09:01] <knome> i mean my machine is 22.04 and i can install snaps, so...
[09:02] <JackFrost> That's about all I can tell you, I don't have it on a desktop, never have. :3
[09:02]  * knome shrugs
[09:02] <knome> the more time passes by, the less i seem to care about technological stuff as long as it works
[09:04] <JackFrost> I'm still of the older mindset, if it's not packaged then it doesn't exist. :P
[09:04] <JackFrost> (Presuming I can't be tricked into packaging it.)
[09:04] <knome> ...i mean, snap is sort a package? (:
[09:04] <knome> +of
[09:05] <JackFrost> Well, so is rpm.  But I don't count either.
[09:06] <knome> :)
[09:07] <JackFrost> I had to switch from Gandi to Porkbun, one of the biggest downsides is now I maintain pkb-client in Debian. :3
[09:07] <knome> why?
[09:07] <JackFrost> Cost of Gandi doubled, Porkbun had all the features I needed at old-Gandi prices.
[09:07] <knome> ahh.
[09:08] <JackFrost> I could have added more years on my domain in July, but I missed the cutoff so I went looking for alternatives instead...
[09:09] <knome> fair enough
[09:20] <knome> always fun when you have a directory named "cd"
[11:31] <bluesabre> Snap Store installs snaps and deb packages from the archive (doesn't seem to install downloaded .deb files)
[11:32] <bluesabre> We currently ship a single snap package: Firefox
[11:32] <bluesabre> It does create a `snap` folder in your home directory
[11:33] <bluesabre> I've thought about shipping a .hidden file to just hide the snap directory... because it's not useful
[11:35] <bluesabre> Also doesn't install .snap files downloaded from the Internet (those exist! https://obsidian.md/download)
[11:36] <bluesabre> And the `snap` path isn't configurable. Can become a pain when your home directory is on a smaller partition.
[11:48] <knome> smaller or not, i think it's infuriating that they decided it's ok for a default to create a visible directory in ~
[12:11] <bluesabre> Totally agreed.
[12:22] <knome> ...and not be able to change that
[15:07] <arraybolt3>  does it work to make it a symlink?
[15:07] <arraybolt3> not really a solution to the problem of a user-visible folder but might let you move it regardless
[17:12] <knome> don't know but the visibility is the main issue
[17:12] <knome> not the space required
[17:29] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Bump actions/setup-python from 4.7.1 to 5.0.0 @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/660832cb233532aec133551d9184f56b70191414 (by dependabot)
[17:29] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: usr/share/gtksourceview-5: Add gtksourceview-5 themes (LP: #2049115) @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/13839d5a0fa037537d8ecc808d97c3ce121e1e79 (by bluesabre)
[17:29] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: usr/share/libgedit-gtksourceview-300: Add libgedit-gtksourceview-300 … @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/a6b5fcd66d4265749db8bcfc029b2dcbafe06879 (by bluesabre)
[17:29] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Merge pull request #29 from Xubuntu/dependabot/github_actions/actions… @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/9f63261260be18071e22b12e8a2196f7e60b782d (by bluesabre)
[17:38] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Bump JamesIves/github-pages-deploy-action from 4.4.3 to 4.5.0 @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/38e2871bb4866d83e82e7aac46f1b3b94be20ed9 (by dependabot)
[17:38] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Bump actions/setup-python from 4.7.1 to 5.0.0 @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/b8fd6448d11d3e89044a5895e2867a824732ae11 (by dependabot)
[17:38] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Merge pull request #44 from Xubuntu/dependabot/github_actions/actions… @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/df872ea24cf019cf15041be7a5f3169f03f661e9 (by bluesabre)
[17:38] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Merge pull request #42 from Xubuntu/dependabot/github_actions/JamesIv… @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/93783690103922d8e7bfe6741bc2c1f44777d137 (by bluesabre)
[17:41] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: build(deps): bump actions/setup-python from 4.7.1 to 5.0.0 @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/5af4dbd8e3fd00cce74c321131e7d4b3e4502b45 (by dependabot)
[17:41] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate whiskermenu.pot in de @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/f9370e9e35344c2929465ddf54fc81b4f6834626 (by transifex-integration)
[17:41] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in de @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/9a23501d9371d078ad7ba43916a7e1392e14be12 (by transifex-integration)
[17:41] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in de @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/04a2ba2e94edba9d9cc1569bd3282b0362264835 (by transifex-integration)
[17:41] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate xds-xsession-files.pot in de @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/ba9fbb9bfc0d80bb94c0d99fa1d59ae382a54995 (by transifex-integration)
[17:41] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Merge pull request #78 from Xubuntu/dependabot/github_actions/actions… @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/6c887c4c0c3012b45e8a92ba0cb906aabb0a418b (by bluesabre)
[17:46] <bluesabre> It lives!
[19:29] <knome> that was... a lot