[07:43] <veebers> mzanetti: ping
[07:45] <mzanetti> veebers: hi
[07:46] <veebers> mzanetti: hey, last week I think you mentioned that you wanted to sync tonight/nowish?
[07:46] <mzanetti> veebers: yeah... if that's ok for you
[07:46] <mzanetti> veebers: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/88c14f801dd860966b7acae71497df586a31360e
[07:47] <veebers> mzanetti: sweet, one moment moving to office
[08:34] <larsu> is autolanding in unity8 failing for everyone or just my branch? https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/unity8/lp1219057/+merge/184622
[08:38] <dednick> larsu: been happening for me as well. it's pretty flaky.
[08:43] <larsu> dednick: ah, good to know, thanks
[08:43] <mzanetti> larsu: hmm... there seems to be some breakage
[08:43] <mzanetti> larsu: as the test results for your job contains all sorts of results of the apps
[08:44] <mzanetti> veebers: fyi: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/unity8/lp1219057/+merge/184622
[08:45] <mzanetti> veebers: I'll ask omer/fginter to check it when they show up as it's out of working hours. but just in case you have seen this before and know whats going on already, let us know
[08:56] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, is the right edge you mentioned rightEdgeDraggingArea in Stage.qml?
[08:56] <nic-doffay> Because I'm setting enabled and it's not making a difference.
[08:59] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, if you aren't sure do you have an idea who would know a bit more? Would save me a lot of time.
[08:59] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: I'm quite sure that's the one
[08:59] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: dandrader created that stuff
[09:00] <dandrader> o/
[09:00] <dandrader> nic-doffay, what do you want to do?
[09:01] <mzanetti> dandrader: he needs to disable the right edge drag when an overlay is open
[09:01] <mzanetti> dandrader: pretty much like the HUD, or the indicators do it
[09:01] <nic-doffay> dandrader, I'm busy setting enabled (line 443) in Stage.qml.
[09:01] <nic-doffay> To disabled the right edge behaviour.
[09:01] <nic-doffay> Doesn't seem to be affecting it.
[09:02] <nic-doffay> It's printing false but the drag behaviour persists.
[09:03]  * dandrader tries it out
[09:04] <dandrader> (but EdgeDragArea really shouldn't do anything if enabled:false || visible::false)
[09:04] <mzanetti> hmm... looking at that code I don't see anything hud or indicators related in there
[09:04] <mzanetti> maybe they do it somewhere else...
[09:04] <dandrader> as per DirectionalDragArea.cpp:461
[09:05] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: have you tried adding your stuff in Shell.qml at line 501 ?
[09:05] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: that kinda looks like how the others disable that
[09:07] <dandrader> nic-doffay, disabling that DragArea makes you unable to switch between apps. but it does not affect the right-edge drag behavior when Dash is on foreground (the behavior that restores the last minimized app to foreground)
[09:07] <dandrader> as this is done by another DragArea
[09:07] <nic-doffay> dandrader, yeah that's what I suspected.
[09:07]  * dandrader searches for it
[09:07] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, no I haven't will try now quickly...
[09:12] <dandrader> nic-doffay, it's the DragHandle in Shell.qml:395
[09:14] <nic-doffay> dandrader, spot on, ta!
[09:17] <dandrader> mzanetti, I'm still getting failures in notification autopilot tests :( https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/unity8/MouseTouchAdaptor_MultiWindow/+merge/185820/comments/423184
[09:17] <nic-doffay> dandrader, there still seems to be a component interfering. I've disabled both the rightEdgeDragging area in Stage.qml and the aforementioned one in Shell, however when I click that area the filters are dismissed.
[09:17] <nic-doffay> Any idea what might be affecting this now?
[09:18] <mzanetti> dandrader: hm... this is weird
[09:18] <mzanetti> MacSlow: any idea? https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/unity8/MouseTouchAdaptor_MultiWindow/+merge/185820/comments/423184
[09:19] <dandrader> nic-doffay, what "filters"?
[09:19] <dandrader> mzanetti, btw, that MP still needs your review :)
[09:20] <mzanetti> dandrader: yeah... I'm using it right now in my branch... functionality looks ok. still gotta read through the code
[09:20] <nic-doffay> dandrader, that's something I'm working on. It's part of the PageHeader.
[09:21] <nic-doffay> So it appears the PageHeader is dismissed.
[09:21] <nic-doffay> When clicking that right edge once both of the respective components "enabled" properties are set to false.
[09:24] <dandrader> nic-doffay, hmm, hard to say
[09:41] <nic-doffay> dandrader, strange an inverseMouseArea was interfering.
[09:41] <nic-doffay> once those were disabled.
[09:47] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, that's the last one ticked off the list then. Feel free to take another spin. Going to try get someone from #sdk to land the other branch in the mean time.
[09:51] <nic-doffay> MacSlow, won't be able to land that branch atm.
[09:51] <nic-doffay> Autopilot issues.
[10:07] <MacSlow> mzanetti, looking
[10:09] <MacSlow> nic-doffay, ok
[11:19] <mzanetti> dandrader: very small nitpick comment on your merge... do you want to fix it or shall I approve as is? https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/unity8/MouseTouchAdaptor_MultiWindow/+merge/185820
[11:21] <dandrader> mzanetti, replied
[11:22] <mzanetti> dandrader: approved
[11:23] <dandrader> mzanetti, can you top-approve as well (and hope that the autolander has no issues with the autopilot tests)?
[11:23] <mzanetti> sure
[11:23] <dandrader> mzanetti, thanks!
[11:25] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: seriuosly dude... if you tell me that you fixed all the stuff I reall do expect you to have...
[12:50] <paulliu> mhr3: https://code.launchpad.net/~paulliu/unity8/movie-preview/+merge/181856
[12:50] <paulliu> mhr3: please help to review. Thanks.
[13:01] <mhr3> paulliu, there are still some traces of qtmultimedia
[13:01] <mhr3> i suppose you want to get rid of those? :)
[13:04] <mhr3> paulliu, also, `apt-get install unity-scope-video-remote` after restart you should see some online videos, try previewing them and see if things work
[13:06] <paulliu> mhr3: ok.
[13:07] <paulliu> mhr3: Yeah.. Let me remove those qtmultimedia stuff and try the new scope.
[13:09] <Saviq> mzanetti, I don't think what Satoris wrote was a Qt or QML API proposition ;)
[13:09] <Saviq> mzanetti, rather a lower level one
[13:09] <mzanetti> Saviq: it starts with ItemName {} :P
[13:10] <mhr3> sil2100, ping?
[13:10] <mhr3> sil2100, you know what i'm going to ask, don't you? :)
[13:11] <sil2100> mhr3: yes! But fear not! We have it planned :)
[13:11] <mzanetti> Saviq: https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/split-surfaces
[13:11] <sil2100> mhr3: we will try landing it... TODAY!
[13:11] <sil2100> Later today
[13:11] <mzanetti> Saviq: the launcher is so to say "done"
[13:11] <Saviq> mzanetti, cool!
[13:11] <mhr3> sil2100, awesomeness :)
[13:11] <mzanetti> Saviq: I won't do all the other overlays right now, or?
[13:12] <mhr3> ssweeny, ^^^
[13:12] <mzanetti> Saviq: better way for a) if that'll work on mir and b) if we're actually using it
[13:12] <Saviq> mzanetti, answer to b) is "yes"
[13:15] <ssweeny> mhr3, \0/
[13:27] <bregma> latest Unity7 daily just failed because of the new xpathselect-dev package, with new features added and old features removed...  WEEKS after feature freeze
[13:28] <bregma> why both having a feature fereze?
[13:32] <mzanetti> Saviq: you joining the standup?
[13:43] <greyback> dednick: I couldn't follow the first thing you said. Could you add it yourself?
[13:43] <greyback> dednick: or write it here and I'll add it
[13:44] <dednick> greyback: yeah, i'll add it
[13:44] <greyback> dednick: appreciated, thanks
[13:50] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, regarding your comment, the best way to sort that out would probably be to disable dash clicks.
[13:50] <nic-doffay> Do you know if this is done elsewhere?
[13:51] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: I'd say you just anchors.fill the overlay with a MouseArea doing nothing
[13:52] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: also, make sure that you have read all the other comments above... I'm not happy with the way you do the launcherShown thingie
[13:52] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, I thought of that but it seems hacky
[13:52] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: nah... having a MouseArea to "eat" clicks is a quite common thing actually
[13:57] <pete-woods> MacSlow: hi - do you have a plan for when you're aiming to finish the extended snap decisions work? are we talking past the end of this week or more?
[13:58] <MacSlow> pete-woods, I'll be splitting up my branches... into what's working already and the remaining parts that are still in wip (wifi-selection)...
[13:58] <pete-woods> sounds like a good plan!
[13:58] <MacSlow> pete-woods, so I'll put pin-entry, password and user-authentication into a MR this week...
[13:58] <pete-woods> (as you can probably guess, I have pressure to get the revised network secret agent working)
[13:58] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, my reason for doing the launcherShown bool was to close the search popover too.
[13:59] <nic-doffay> Since I figured there's no point having that open with the launcher...
[13:59] <MacSlow> pete-woods, there's no security (white-list protection) yet
[13:59] <pete-woods> MacSlow: awesome news :)
[13:59] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: its good that you close that too. still read the comment on how to do it in a better way
[13:59] <MacSlow> pete-woods, I've pressure from all-sides... so welcome to the club :)
[14:00] <pete-woods> MacSlow: well thanks for the info, and good luck with this stuff :)
[14:01] <MacSlow> pete-woods, didn't I CC you too in my eMail earlier today...
[14:01]  * MacSlow looks...
[14:02] <pete-woods> I have an e-mail from yesterday, but it didn't have estimates in, unless I'm blind that is
[14:02] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, yeah but that's got nothing to do with the alias you mentioned.
[14:02] <nic-doffay> It's a popover
[14:02] <nic-doffay> Which is handled in PageHeader.qml
[14:02] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: so?
[14:02] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, so it shouldn't close when the filters close.
[14:02] <nic-doffay> It should be handled separately.
[14:03] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: ah... hmm... I see.. but wait... if its a popover you can't open the launcher while its open...
[14:04] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, why not?
[14:05] <mzanetti> because popovers have an inversemousearea round them that closes the popover if you tap somewhere outside of it
[14:06] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, so disable the launcher instead?
[14:06] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: no... just ignore the popup
[14:06] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: that's already handled correctly
[14:07] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, so you mean don't close the popup then?
[14:07] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: the popover will close itself if you try to open the launcher
[14:09] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, right cool
[14:13] <mzanetti> Cimi: can you do a review? https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/launcher-fix-removal-of-running-app/+merge/185878
[14:14] <mzanetti> greyback: hey, I think we introduced another issue with the new app manager
[14:14] <greyback> mzanetti: a good issue? /me hopes
[14:15] <mzanetti> greyback: launching an app from the commandline seems only possible with --destkop_file_hint pointing to a desktop file located in /usr/share/applications/
[14:15] <mzanetti> greyback: which kinda breaks run_on_device scripts for apps
[14:15] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, pushed to the branch.
[14:16] <nic-doffay> However something is interfering with the filters being dismissed.
[14:16] <nic-doffay> No idea what.
[14:16] <nic-doffay> Check line 455 in the diff.
[14:16] <nic-doffay> This works but the filters remain on screen.
[14:17] <greyback> mzanetti: ok, that's quite possible, will look now
[14:17] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, wait I see, althought I'm unsure how to get around it.
[14:17] <greyback> mzanetti: you got this on mir or SF? (but I'll check both to be sure)
[14:18] <mzanetti> greyback: yeah... still using SF here... Mir freezes the device on starting apps here
[14:18] <kgunn> MacSlow: ping
[14:19] <greyback> mzanetti: I'd need to look into that too! Running app via command line on Mir causes it to freeze?
[14:19] <mzanetti> greyback: no... running an app from the dash
[14:19] <MacSlow> kgunn, pong
[14:20] <mzanetti> greyback: changes are > 80% here that it lock up when starting an app
[14:20] <mzanetti> greyback: chances...
[14:20] <greyback> mzanetti: well obviously that's not right. I don't have such a high fail rate here tho. Nexus4?
[14:21] <mzanetti> greyback: galaxy nexus
[14:21] <greyback> mzanetti: okay. I'll flash today's image to check.
[14:21] <mzanetti> greyback: I assumed you know about that and are working hard to get it fixed already. so I didn't complain
[14:21] <kgunn> MacSlow: hey...so, i have a note in our delivery sheet
[14:21] <mzanetti> greyback: I noticed that with yesterdays image
[14:21] <kgunn> that the designers look at to test
[14:22] <larsu> om26er: re bug #1226312, did you set mute the volume after restarting pulse? I can't find that in the log...
[14:22] <kgunn> and one of the blocks next to notifications says "user can see app install animations"
[14:22] <greyback> mzanetti: the main problem I see is due to focus switching, which is more a Mir issue. Most of time time, launching apps is ok for me.
[14:22] <larsu> om26er: or did you have problems because indicator-sound doesn't reconnect to pulse (known bug btw ;) )
[14:22] <om26er> larsu, yes I did set it to mute
[14:22] <kgunn> MacSlow: i think its just a mistake....or...is there supposed to be a notification when
[14:22] <kgunn> MacSlow: installing the app? (this is on touch)
[14:22] <MacSlow> kgunn, never heard of that before...
[14:22] <om26er> larsu, that could be the case that the sound menu didn't connect to pulse
[14:22] <kgunn> MacSlow: gotta be a mistake...
[14:23] <MacSlow> kgunn, that sounds like a thing happening in the launcher (on an icon there)?
[14:23] <kgunn> MacSlow: i think i'm going to replace it with something like "user sees notification upon recieving a msg"
[14:23] <mzanetti> greyback: could well be that it is related to focus switching
[14:23] <MacSlow> kgunn, I've not seen/heard anything like that in the recent design-doc regarding that
[14:23] <larsu> om26er: right. Can you try again please, but restarting indicator-sound-service after you've restarted pulse? So that the mute is definitly happening?
[14:23] <om26er> larsu, you need to get a Ubuntu phone dude, "ask your manager" :)
[14:23] <mzanetti> greyback: I have the feeling it freezes just when the app should become visible/usable
[14:23] <larsu> om26er: I have one, but no sim in there.
[14:24] <kgunn> MacSlow: yeah... i just need to replace it with a sensible user experience for notifications
[14:24] <mzanetti> greyback: so not directly when clicking on the icon... more like 1.5 secs later
[14:24] <larsu> om26er: do you know if I can fake phone calls somehow?
[14:24] <greyback> mzanetti: indeed. Quite likely. I'm hoping focus fixes in Mir will help. But I need to gather more data to help them.
[14:24] <greyback> mzanetti: just didn't want you to think we had no idea :)
[14:25] <om26er> larsu, on the phones I am not sure, on the desktop that was possible
[14:25] <om26er> larsu, I just tried this: restarted my phone, opened sound menu and changed to mute, made a call from another phone and there was no sound as expected but when I disconnected the call the sound menu automatically changed to unmute infront of my eyes
[14:26] <kgunn> MacSlow: ...yep, someone goofed...i just revision history in google docs (super handy)
[14:26] <MacSlow> kgunn, phew :)
[14:26] <larsu> om26er: right, but that could still be another process chaning the mute status with pulse. The sound menu listens to that
[14:26] <mzanetti> kgunn: fyi. the install app animation in the launcher doesn't match with the specs for the dash. so vesar is clarifying with design if we really need it
[14:27] <larsu> om26er: and I have no clue how it could ever change the volume when a call comes in - the sound menu doesn't know about incoming calls at all
[14:27] <om26er> larsu, do you think any other logs could help ?
[14:27] <om26er> right
[14:28] <larsu> om26er: can you send me the new log (of the process you just described, after you rebooted)
[14:29] <kgunn> mzanetti: thanks for the heads up
[14:29] <kgunn> mzanetti: kinda seems like overkill on phone to do launcher anim's for installs....imho
[14:29] <mzanetti> kgunn: the problem is that apps are not in the launcher while they are being installed
[14:30] <mzanetti> kgunn: and the dash has a button "Pin to launcher" after the installation completes.
[14:30] <mzanetti> kgunn: so even if we would automatically pin each and every app (which I'm strongly against btw) we would cause a clash with the dash spec
[14:31] <kgunn> mzanetti: yeah...makes sense with the "pin 2launcher" button in the dash not to just overpopulate launcher
[14:32] <mzanetti> +1
[14:33] <mzanetti> kgunn: I think that's where we will go. but vesa will clarify with John and Oren
[14:33] <om26er> larsu, http://ubuntuone.com/6zgwQ3FbtEIUeH4G2bPwBG
[14:33] <om26er> wow ubuntuone bug
[14:33] <om26er> its still uploading
[14:34] <om26er> larsu, http://ubuntuone.com/6zgwQ3FbtEIUeH4G2bPwBG
[14:34] <om26er> ah, its the same but now its working
[14:39] <vesar> mzanetti, kgunn: Yes I'm trying to sort out the design part of this. I also agree that adding the installed application to launcher is overkill. But apparently it is something that's seen very important on the desktop side.
[14:40] <mzanetti> vesar: yeah... but on the desktop you don't install 50 fart apps a day
[14:40] <mzanetti> luckily
[14:41] <vesar> mzanetti, :) true. but we have to think about the consistency between form factors.
[14:41] <mzanetti> vesar: yeah... remove that feature from the desktop too :D
[14:42] <larsu> om26er: thanks, I'll have a look
[14:42] <mzanetti> (just kidding)
[14:42] <vesar> mzanetti, kgunn : anyway I'm +1 for getting rid of it. but there are opposing opinions.
[14:42] <om26er> larsu, (Y)
[14:43] <vesar> mzanetti, kgunn : apparently user's haven't found their newly installed apps on desktop. Adding it to launcher automatically and alerting when installation finished has been to solution so far.
[14:43] <vesar> mzanetti, kgunn : anyway I'm on this.
[14:52] <ssweeny> mhr3, hey, i have a scope that works fine on its own but it doesn't show up when made into a subscope of a master. is there anything i need to do other than move the scope file into the right subdir?
[14:55] <om26er> how can I change timezones in touch_ro images ?
[15:00] <mhr3> ssweeny, yes, subscopes need to conform with the master scopes
[15:01] <ssweeny> mhr3, conform how exactly? :)
[15:01] <mhr3> ssweeny, most importantly, their category ids need be a subset of the master's
[15:01] <ssweeny> ah, ok
[15:01] <ssweeny> mhr3, those are the ones laid out in the .scope files?
[15:01] <mhr3> ssweeny, yes, master scopes define them in their .scope files, subscope in the code
[15:07] <ssweeny> mhr3, if no categories are defined in the master does that mean no filtering or would that not show anything?
[15:07] <ssweeny> (i tried removing the categories in case they were mismatched)
[15:07] <ssweeny> (this is my own master scope btw)
[15:08] <mhr3> ssweeny, if you didn't define any categories in the master, there's one default called "global"
[15:09] <mhr3> so you need to define at least that one in the subscope
[15:10] <ssweeny> ok
[15:15] <om26er> bug 1226650
[15:15] <om26er> anyone ?
[15:15] <om26er> popey, confirming bugs today ?
[15:15] <om26er> :)
[15:26] <ssweeny> mhr3, do i need to do anything to make a subscope always show?
[15:29] <mhr3> cwayne1, no, but we were promised that later today, see above (current_time - 2h15m)
[15:29] <mhr3> ssweeny, not sure what you mean
[15:30] <mhr3> ssweeny, still not getting any results?
[15:30] <ssweeny> mhr3, right. but i was wondering what the difference is between something like the "recently used" app scope which always shows up and the other scopes which only show when they have relevant results
[15:31] <ssweeny> mhr3, i have a subscope that basically just always returns the same results. they show when the scope is loaded by itself
[15:33] <mhr3> ssweeny, recent apps only show up on empty searches
[15:33] <ssweeny> ok
[15:33] <mhr3> so no, there isn't anything special
[15:33] <mhr3> ssweeny, do you have the code in a branch somewhere?
[15:34] <ssweeny> mhr3, sure. let me find it
[15:34] <mhr3> ssweeny, are you testing this on the phone itself?
[15:34] <mhr3> or using the desktop?
[15:34] <ssweeny> mhr3, on the phone
[15:34] <mhr3> ok, harder to debug :/
[15:35] <mhr3> ssweeny, but you're not putting the scope to /custom yet, are you?
[15:35] <ssweeny> mhr3, no this is all out of /usr/share/
[15:35] <mhr3> ok
[15:37]  * mhr3 waits for the branch
[15:38] <Saviq> greyback, mzanetti, so I'll take care of the .desktop file issues in unity-mir, ok?
[15:38] <mzanetti> Saviq: fine with me
[15:38] <Saviq> i.e. only supporting ones from /usr/share and not working with --desktop_file_hint from the console
[15:38] <mzanetti> Saviq: yep
[15:57] <mzanetti> Saviq: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/fix-preview-collapsing/+merge/186085
[15:57] <Saviq> mzanetti, cheers
[16:42] <mzanetti> Saviq: updated the branch
[16:50] <sil2100> bregma: ping
[16:50] <sil2100> bschaefer: ping ;)
[16:51] <bregma> sil2100, pong
[16:51] <bschaefer> sil2100, hello!
[16:56] <sil2100> bregma, bschaefer: so... it *seems* we have a FTBFS for unity
[16:56] <bschaefer> sil2100, well thats not good!
[16:57]  * bschaefer grabs truck
[16:57] <bregma> sil2100, yes, a new xpathselect landed and it;s not backward compatible
[16:57] <sil2100> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/150489792/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.unity_7.1.0%2B13.10.20130917-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz <- seems to fail for all archs
[16:57] <bregma> we're working on a possible workaround by pinning the version in the build-depends, but it takes a while to verify
[16:58] <sil2100> bregma: thanks!
[16:58] <bregma> landing new features in a library after feature freeze should be grounds for burning at the stake, expecially if the old features are removed
[16:59] <sil2100> bregma: uugh, how did that get past the release team? You know if they had a FFE for that?
[17:00] <bregma> I have no idea
[17:00] <sil2100> bregma: since if not, I guess we can force a revert
[17:00] <bregma> it's only in the daily PPA right now, and a dependency of autopilot
[17:01] <sil2100> grrr
[17:01] <thomi> bregma: sil2100: wait, xpathselect1.4 should *not* be in saucy
[17:01] <Saviq> mzanetti, thanks
[17:01] <thomi> we agreed to land that in 'T'.
[17:02] <sil2100> thomi: oh! Let me check then what's up
[17:02] <thomi> sil2100: thanks
[17:03] <thomi> sil2100: all the autopilot 1.4.X packages are targetted at 'T' - that includes the autopiot packages, libautopilot-*, xpathselect, etc.
[17:03] <sil2100> thomi: ok, so clearly we have something broken in daily-release
[17:03] <sil2100> thomi: the config is ok, but maybe someone didn't redeploy and we got this change in...
[17:04] <bschaefer> sooo far trunk is build fine for me on main saucy
[17:04]  * bregma is looking forward to an expedient resolution
[17:04] <thomi> sil2100: OK, can I leave it with you to back that out?
[17:04] <sil2100> thomi: right!
[17:04] <thomi> sil2100: lp:xpathsleect/1.3 is what should be landing in saucy
[17:08] <sil2100> thomi: confirming, the config is correct but stacks weren't redeployed - so the changes weren't actually running ;/
[17:08] <mhr3> Saviq, btw we don't have a generic music result grid
[17:09] <sil2100> Someone didn't redeploy...
[17:09] <mhr3> Saviq, do you have someone to work on that?
[17:10] <Saviq> mhr3, MusicFilterGrid not good?
[17:11] <thomi> sil2100: :(
[17:11] <mhr3> Saviq, oh, cool, so we're just missing a case in GenericScopeView
[17:11] <thomi> sil2100: well, good to know what went wrong anyway
[17:11] <sil2100> thomi: fixing... eh :<
[17:11] <Saviq> mhr3, right
[17:15] <mhr3> Saviq, https://code.launchpad.net/~mhr3/unity8/music-grid-renderer-support/+merge/186109
[17:16] <mhr3> aah
[17:16] <Saviq> mhr3, ubuntu-mono-dark? ;)
[17:16] <mhr3> Saviq, fixed
[17:17] <Saviq> mhr3, happroved
[17:17] <mhr3> tom
[17:17] <mhr3> hanks
[17:50] <bschaefer> mterry, heeey, soo i see one of your very old branches that is fixing a crash we are seeing :)
[17:50] <bschaefer> https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/nux/null-ibus-config/+merge/129212
[17:51] <mterry> bschaefer, poke a nux maintainer to review it -- I've been waiting on a review
[17:51] <bschaefer> mterry, it has some conflict, so would you mind if I proposed my own branch? (Unless you would like to fix it up :)
[17:51] <mterry> bschaefer, oh that's fine if you've got a branch
[17:51] <bschaefer> bschaefer, i am a nux maintainer, and im sorry i missed it
[17:51] <bschaefer> opps
[17:51] <bschaefer> geez
[17:51] <bschaefer> mterry, ^
[17:51] <mterry> bschaefer, :)
[17:52] <bschaefer> mterry, cool, thanks just wanted to double check, also thanks for making that branch! (sorry again for missing it!)
[17:53] <mterry> bschaefer, awesome
[17:54] <Saviq> greyback, https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/unity-mir/fix-desktopfile/+merge/186120
[18:13] <xjunior> hey, a question about unity: Is it planned to make multitouch gestures configurable?
[18:15] <bregma> xjunior, are you asking about the phone or the desktop?
[18:17] <xjunior> bregma, desktop
[18:18] <bregma> xjunior, not in Unity, but possibly for applictions
[18:19] <xjunior> bregma, just as an example
[18:19] <xjunior> four fingers swipe left/right now shows and hides the launcher
[18:19] <xjunior> making that change workspace would be more valuable
[18:19] <xjunior> bregma, isn't this kind of thing planned?
[18:19] <bregma> xjunior, no, we have no plans to make the 3- and 4-touch gestures in Unity configurable
[18:20] <xjunior> gotcha
[18:20] <bregma> xjunior, but support for gestures in Unity is still incomplete
[18:20] <xjunior> I see
[18:20] <xjunior> anyway, pretty good job y'all are doing. Keep it up
[18:20] <bregma> 14.04 is coming.....
[18:21] <xjunior> bregma, what's in there?
[18:22] <bregma> xjunior, no decisions yet, but improved gesture support in unity is a good candidate
[18:23] <xjunior> ohhhh, awesome :)
[18:23] <bregma> now that Windows 8 is catching up :)
[18:23] <xjunior> well, that's not my opinion yet :P


[00:15] <ahoneybun> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/p5aIZv0h/IMG_20171020_182058.jpg
 definitely not Florida any more!
[00:33] <valorie> looking like that here lately
[00:33] <valorie> but soggier after this week
[00:33] <valorie> off to dinner
[21:03] <acheronuk> https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php/72524-New-to-Kubuntu
[21:27] <valorie> thanks for posting the link, acheronuk
[21:27] <valorie> what a great thread
[23:43] <valorie> https://panopticlick.eff.org/


[08:46] <HarKoT> ol
[01:28] <jrib> did you read the README file?
[01:28] <jrib> Laugh:
[01:28] <Laugh> ok, listening
[01:28] <Laugh> yes
[01:28] <Laugh> i read it
[01:29] <jrib> you need to address people in #ubuntu or no one will have any clue what you are talking about (including me)
[01:29] <jrib> !who
[01:29] <ubotu> As you can see, this is a large channel. If you're speaking to someone in particular, please put their nickname in what you say (use !tab), or else messages get lost and it becomes confusing :)
[01:29] <Laugh> i finaly could install it i think
[01:29] <jrib> Laugh: and did you try what the README said?
[01:29] <Laugh> ok
[01:29] <Laugh> jrib, i tried it, opened the terminal, found the commands by myself to start the installations, it started, said succesfully done
[01:30] <jrib> k, and now?
[01:30] <Laugh> jrib, but i could not find the murrine configurator nowhere yet.
[01:30] <jrib> how did you install it?  paste the command you used here
[01:30] <Laugh> give me a second
[01:31] <Laugh> here it is (the command): sudo /home/alimurat/Desktop/newmurrineconfigurator/install.sh
[01:31] <Laugh> sorry, jrip, here it is (the command): sudo /home/alimurat/Desktop/newmurrineconfigurator/install.sh
[01:31] <Laugh> sorry, jrib, here it is (the command): sudo /home/alimurat/Desktop/newmurrineconfigurator/install.sh
[01:31] <Laugh> again
[01:32] <jrib> k, now what does this return: 'ls /usr/share/applications/murrine-configurator.desktop'
[01:34] <Laugh> jrib, it says, "no such file or directory
[01:34] <jrib> Laugh: pastebin the entire output of your 'sudo /home/alimurat/Desktop/newmurrineconfigurator/install.sh' command
[01:35] <Laugh> jrib, i'm a new and a stupid user
[01:35] <jrib> actually, I think I know what may be wrong
[01:35] <Laugh> so, the things you write are sometimes too complex
[01:36] <Laugh> pastebin for example
[01:36] <jrib> !pastebin
[01:36] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[01:36] <Laugh> !pastebin
[01:37] <Laugh> jrib, done, here it is: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35375
[01:38] <jrib> k
[01:38] <jrib> do this: cd /home/alimurat/Desktop/newmurrineconfigurator
[01:38] <jrib> then run it like this: sudo ./install.sh
[01:39] <jrib> then pastebin the output
[01:39] <Laugh> ok, give me a second
[01:39] <jrib> you can have more than one
[01:40] <Laugh> jrib, ok, here it is: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35378/
[01:41] <jrib> this install script is not the smartest...
[01:41] <jrib> run: ./install.sh --uninstall
[01:42] <Laugh> jrib, all of them?
[01:42] <jrib> what do you mean "all of them?"
[01:42] <Laugh> jrib: i mean, should i write all of them to the terminal beginnning as: run: ......
[01:43] <jrib> oh
[01:43] <jrib> no, I just mean that you should now execute the command: ./install.sh --uninstall
[01:43] <Laugh> ok
[01:44] <Laugh> jrib, it says: succesfully uninstalled
[01:44] <Laugh> successefully...??..:)
[01:44] <jrib> great, now run this command and let me know the output: ls /usr/share/nmc /usr/share/pixmaps/murrine-configurator.png /usr/share/applications/murrine-configurator.desktop
[01:46] <Laugh> jrib: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35380/
[01:46] <jrib> good
[01:46] <jrib> do this: cd /home/alimurat/Desktop/newmurrineconfigurator
[01:47] <Laugh> jrib... done
[01:47] <jrib> applications that you install outside of the package manager should go to /usr/local
[01:47] <Laugh> yes...?
[01:47] <jrib> so now to install, do this: sudo ./install.sh --prefix=/usr/local
[01:48] <Laugh> jrib: again...:(, all of them?
[01:48] <jrib> just the stuff after the :
[01:48] <jrib> sudo ./install.sh --prefix=/usr/local
[01:48] <Laugh> ok, i meant about the prefix, maybe it should be something else...
[01:48] <Laugh> starting
[01:49] <Laugh> jrib, it says succesfully installed
[01:49] <jrib> ok
[01:49] <jrib> now check your settings menu
[01:49] <jrib> probably in system -> preferences
[01:49] <Laugh> ok, give me second
[01:51] <Laugh> :), it's there... i hope it'll work and worth to give headaches to me and the helping you..:)
[01:51] <Laugh> hey, jrib, can i change the language of it to english?
[01:51] <Laugh> it looks like it's latin or something
[01:52] <jrib> you'll have to check the program's source
[01:52] <jrib> it wasn't in english here either
[01:53] <Laugh> jrib: ok, thanks a lot
[01:53] <Laugh> :
[01:53] <Laugh> :)
[07:21] <seba> hi all
[07:21] <seba> how can i change keyboard setup on ubuntu serrver ?
[11:34] <steveatlocalhost> hello
[11:34] <jrib> hi
[11:34] <jrib> arghh2D2: pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list for me
[11:36] <arghh2D2> jrib: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35466/
[11:37] <jrib> arghh2D2: try 'sudo apt-get -f install', pastebin the output before agreeing
[11:37] <jrib> or at least read it before you agree
[11:40] <arghh2D2> jrib: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35467/
[11:41] <jrib> arghh2D2: and when you agree?
[11:41] <arghh2D2> working
[11:41] <arghh2D2> justasec
[11:41] <jrib> hmm weird
[11:42] <arghh2D2> liscence agreements in ncurses stuff
[11:42] <jrib> k, agree (if you agree)
[11:43] <arghh2D2> jrib: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35468/
[11:44] <jrib> looks ok now
[11:44] <jrib> does synaptic still complain?
[11:45] <arghh2D2> jrib: nope
[11:45] <jrib> k, not sure what went wrong there, but you should be good to go now
[11:46] <arghh2D2> yeah, i think so, thanks a million pal.
[11:52] <jrib> np


[06:13] <mup> Bug #1994943 opened: No SSH pub key content or fingerprint in WebUI <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1994943>
[06:31] <mup> Bug #1994695 changed: Unable to deploy a custom image <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1994695>
[14:11] <mup> Bug #1996065 opened: CLI errors when redirecting the output to a file <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1996065>
[14:14] <mup> Bug #1996065 changed: CLI errors when redirecting the output to a file <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1996065>
[14:26] <mup> Bug #1996065 opened: CLI errors when redirecting the output to a file <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1996065>
[15:20] <mup> Bug #1996074 opened: Machine details stuck at "Loading" for machines with no disks <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1996074>
[17:27] <mup> Bug #1996090 opened: Errors during snap refresh from 3.2.6 to 3.3 beta <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1996090>
[17:33] <mup> Bug #1996090 changed: Errors during snap refresh from 3.2.6 to 3.3 beta <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1996090>
[17:36] <mup> Bug #1996090 opened: Errors during snap refresh from 3.2.6 to 3.3 beta <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1996090>
[17:42] <mup> Bug #1996090 changed: Errors during snap refresh from 3.2.6 to 3.3 beta <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1996090>
[17:51] <mup> Bug #1996090 opened: Errors during snap refresh from 3.2.6 to 3.3 beta <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1996090>
[23:06] <mup> Bug #1993836 changed: Libvirt VM host provisioning never completes with image revision 20221018 <apport-collected> <focal> <regression-update> <uec-images> <MAAS:Invalid by cgrabowski> <maas-images:Triaged> <cloud-init (Ubuntu):In Progress by falcojr> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1993836>


[00:43] <ApOgEE>        hehe
[00:43] <ApOgEE> selamat pagi semua
[01:10]  * ApOgEE poke shah`
[01:11] <ApOgEE> eloo excalibr hyperair shah`
[01:12] <hyperair> elo
[01:12] <ApOgEE> hi hyperair, how r u doing?
[01:13] <ApOgEE> what do you do now? coding?
[01:25] <hyperair> yeah
[01:25] <hyperair> i'm fine thanks
[01:25] <hyperair> currently at work
[01:25] <hyperair> what about you?
[13:41] <excalibr> hi guys


[17:33] <mup> PR snapd#9702 closed: interfaces/seccomp/template.go: allow copy_file_range <Simple 😃> <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9702>


[21:30] <bac> jcsackett: i know this isn't your OCR day but care to do a review?
[21:30] <jcsackett> bac: sure.
[21:33] <bac> jcsackett: thanks.  https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/bug-693357/+merge/45075
[21:39] <jcsackett> bac: any chance you could also take a look at one for me?
[21:39] <bac> jcsackett: sure
[21:39] <jcsackett> cool. https://code.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/launchpad/mergeproposal-status-icon-589584/+merge/44531
[21:40] <jcsackett> thanks, bac.
[21:41] <jcsackett> bac, are there any tests for get PPAOwnedByPerson?
[21:41] <bac> jcsackett: just those in the doc test
[21:42] <jcsackett> bac: okay. soyuz is nasty enough i'm not going to suggest trying to build new tests for it--they makesourcepackage stuff is fairly slow and cumbersome.
[21:43] <bac> jcsackett: your branch looks more interesting
[21:43] <jcsackett> bac: it is and it isn't. :-P
[21:43] <jcsackett> it's only interesting because the template bit has irritating  bits. :-P
[21:48] <jcsackett> bac: i see at the bottom of your diff the default for has_packages in the method is None; given that it's a boolean switch, shouldn't the default be False, just for readability?
[21:49] <bac> jcsackett: yeah, probably.  i originally thought about None, True, False but abandoned that idea.  i'll make the change
[21:50] <jcsackett> bac: cool. thanks.
[21:52] <jcsackett> bac: r=me. i have requested follow up from sinzui.
[21:52] <bac> jcsackett: thanks
[21:52] <jcsackett> one day, i hope, i will not have to append that last sentence when ending reviews. :-)
[22:19] <sinzui> bac: I approved your branch
[22:19] <bac> sinzui: i saw that and have sent it off to ec2.  thank you.
[22:21] <bac> jcsackett: i approved your branch.  you may want to give gavin a chance to look it over, though, out of courtesy.  unless you're super itchy to land it.
[22:26] <jcsackett> bac: i'm not super itchy, just wanted to get a stamp on it in case gavin is out for a while. if he's back tomorrow i'm going to poke him.
[22:27] <bac> jcsackett: perfect
[22:27] <jcsackett> thanks for the review.


[10:08] <blinry> My upload gets rejected because of "name_version.dsc: Unknown section '-' ". In the control file I'm using the sections video, libs and libdevel for three packages. Has anyone seen this error before?
[10:10] <wgrant> blinry: Is your Source stanza's Section field missing, perhaps?
[10:10] <wgrant> The .dsc only contains the source section, not the binary sections.
[10:17] <blinry> That's it. Thanks!
[15:03] <CarlFK> how do I search PPAs for   http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/libgstreamer-vaapi1.0-0   (I am trying to find a package for saucy )
[19:05] <tsimpson> CarlFK: I think your best bet is to go to the source package on LP (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer-vaapi) and see the "Other versions of 'gstreamer-vaapi' in untrusted archives." section
[19:41] <ESphynx> hey guys where's the translation channel
[21:08] <dobey> ESphynx: translation of launchpad itself? or translation of some project hosted on launchpad? if you mean ubuntu, it is #ubuntu-i38n, if it's an arbitrary project, then you have to ask whomever owns that project
[21:30] <flexxxv> I have a public project but can't changeits branches from  Embargoed to public. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.
[21:34] <flexxxv> nvermind. I didn't know that there seperate permissions for code, blueprints etc.
[23:34] <ESphynx> dobey: I meant projects hosted on launchpad... I thought there was #launchpad-translators or somethign


[01:16] <SpamapS> jcastro: hahahahah no I made that for the Cloud Days presentation like 3 months ago. ;)
[01:24] <jcastro> SpamapS: I didn't know about it before
[01:24] <jcastro> I am going to steal it
[01:26] <SpamapS> jcastro: the one on the wiki is svg ... make sure to steal *that* :)
[01:26] <jcastro> We should ask someone on design to prettyfy it
[01:26] <SpamapS> yeah that would be cool
[01:27] <SpamapS> I'm hesitant to make the marketing assets more polished than ensemble itself tho ;)
[01:27] <jcastro> well, I see people are using it and reporting the annoyances
[01:28] <jcastro> robert collins just filed a few
[06:34] <niemeyer> Good morning all
[07:49] <niemeyer> fwereade: Morning
[07:53] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk r288 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:53] <_mup_> Merged fix-status-scope branch from Clint [r=bcsaller,fwereade]
[07:53] <_mup_> Fixes ensemble status to work with multiple scope filters as per the
[07:53] <_mup_> help documentation. Tests were also adapted to reflect the arguments
[07:53] <_mup_> one should expect from argparse.
[08:08] <kim0> Morning all
[08:17] <niemeyer> kim0: Morning!
[08:17] <kim0> niemeyer: hey .. oh you're up so early :)
[08:17] <niemeyer> kim0: Yeah, I'm actually about to step back to try to sleep some more
[08:18] <kim0> have some nice rest then
[08:18] <niemeyer> Just couldn't sleep for a while, and decided to get up and do something useful
[08:18] <niemeyer> Thanks,  see you soon :)
[08:18] <kim0> :)
[08:22] <fwereade> niemeyer: hey! totally missed you, don't expect people on IRC at this time :p
[08:23] <fwereade> nice w/e?
[08:23] <fwereade> and hey kim0 ;)
[08:23] <kim0> fwereade: Hey Morning o/ :)
[08:35] <raphink> I think one should expect people on IRC at about any time
[08:36] <raphink> given there's people who live all around the globe (and even have internet access)
[10:16] <fwereade> I have a recollection that "fix released" currently means "merged into trunk" rather than actually "released" -- can anyone confirm?
[10:17] <fwereade> if so I can mark a couple of bugs "fix released", and tidy up kanban a little
[10:25] <kim0> raphink: yeah pretty much :)
[10:40] <noodles775> Hi! Does anyone know if m_3 's psql branch is near ready for inclusion in principia ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/principia/+bug/803841
[10:40] <_mup_> Bug #803841: Formula needed (postgresql) <new-formula> <Ensemble Formulas:In Progress by mark-mims> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/803841 >
[11:15] <kim0> SpamapS: oh nice work on the graphic at http://askubuntu.com/questions/55179/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-bootstrapping-instance-ensemble :)
[11:15] <kim0> wonder if that should be added to the bootstrapping section of the user-tutorial
[11:56] <hazmat> g'morning
[11:58] <fwereade> hazmat: heyhey
[12:04] <hazmat> fwereade, how's your day so far?
[12:04]  * hazmat tries to figure out if there's a way to see what the service-config settings are for a service
[12:05] <fwereade> hazmat: ah, not too bad... I think I may have actually just run out of work for the moment, I was about to take a look at some reviews
[12:05] <fwereade> once I get confirmation from andres that cobbler-launch-machine works for him I'll have anothe 3 branches to propose
[12:06] <hazmat> fwereade, nice re cobbler, that's awesome
[12:06] <fwereade> and you; nice weekend?
[12:06] <fwereade> hazmat: there are a few more things we need to think about but I've been concentrating on getting parity with the spike branch
[12:08] <hazmat> fwereade, quiet weekend, don't remember much of it ;-) spent some time cutting a computer case with with a rotary blade so it could fit some 5x3 drive enclosures, also picked up a 4g hotspot device till my new internet connection is setup (my old isp sucked and 'accidentally' dropped me when i made an unrelated request).
[12:08] <hazmat> fwereade, do you have a local cobbler instance for testing or is it based on extraction from the spike w/ mocking?
[12:09] <fwereade> my local cobbler is, er, partially working
[12:10] <fwereade> most stuff I can test directly, but actually completing a netboot install of oneiric has had a long series of hilarious and bizarre problems
[12:10] <fwereade> I might grid my lions and have another go shortly but it's a dispiriting prospect ;)
[12:27] <fwereade> btw, hazmat, I was going to take a look at lp:~hazmat/ensemble/security-groups, but I'm a bit confused about its status
[12:29] <fwereade> it claims to depend on lp:~hazmat/ensemble/security-connection... which lp thinks exists, but bzr doesn't
[12:54] <hazmat> fwereade, it depends on lp:~hazmat/ensemble/security-connection-redux
[12:55] <hazmat> fwereade, i'm not sure what happened to security-connection branch, but lp doesn't like it.. the revisions are the same though
[12:58] <fwereade> hazmat: heh, ok, thanks :)
[13:11]  * hazmat pokes at fwereade  fds testing work
[13:11]  * fwereade wishes to make clear he has no idea what he's doing, and really appreciates fixes and explanations ;)
[13:12] <hazmat> fwereade, i'm curious to see if we manually run the gc how the numbers change
[13:12] <fwereade> hazmat: good idea
[13:13] <hazmat> fwereade, alternatively to scanning all fds, it might have been easier to just scan the /proc/pid/fd
[13:14] <hazmat> oh.. that's what's its doing
[13:15] <hazmat> 'self'
[13:15] <fwereade> hazmat: that's what I do, is there some code lying around still doing things the dumb way?
[13:15] <fwereade> hey, I don't think I fixed ... er ... the branch it was originally flagged on, whatever it was
[13:16] <hazmat> fwereade, yeah my mistake, looks fine, i hadn't seen the 'self' syntax before
[13:16] <fwereade> (and it turns out I did fix lp:~fwereade/ensemble/storage-file-objects :))
[13:16] <fwereade> hazmat: cool :)
[13:17] <hazmat> one other issue, if  a test fails and had temp files/dirs they stick around post test run
[13:17] <hazmat> not related to the branch, just a general test issue
[13:19] <fwereade> hazmat: I view that as a feature, myself: when a test fails I really like to be able to look at the problematic temp files ;)
[13:21] <hazmat> fwereade, so this is actually pointing out alot of failures in things that are okay
[13:22] <hazmat> fwereade, the addCleanup calls from lib/mocker.py run after teardown
[13:22] <hazmat> which take care of self.makeDir, self.makeFile afaicr
[13:22]  * hazmat double checks
[13:22] <fwereade> hazmat: gaah! nice catch :D
[13:22] <hazmat> mocker isn't deferred aware so the ordering is a little odd at times
[13:23] <fwereade> hazmat: I assumed teardown happened in tearDown, but you know what they say about assumptions :)
[13:23] <fwereade> (they make an ass of u and mptions... hmm, doesn't quite work like that)
[13:26] <hazmat> fwereade, i made a one line change to fix it against spurious tests, in the modified _run, if methodName=="tearDown": self.addCleanup(self._diff_fds)
[13:26] <hazmat> spurious failures that is
[13:26] <fwereade> hazmat: awesome, how much nicer does it come out?
[13:27] <hazmat> fwereade, not catching normal operations, reduces the problem almost entirely afaics
[13:27] <fwereade> hazmat: and I guess we're pretty safe from having further cleanups added at that point
[13:27] <hazmat> fwereade, doing a full run now
[13:28] <fwereade> hazmat, brb
[13:32] <fwereade> b
[13:36] <m_3> noodles775: currently the basic pg formula works.  authentication is wide open and there's no replication.
[13:37] <hazmat> hmm, trial has an addCleanup that masks mocker's addCleanup
[13:37] <noodles775> k, thanks m_3.
[13:37] <m_3> noodles775: I should get the acls working before inclusion into principia
[13:38] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: howdy!!
[13:38] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: heyhey!
[13:38] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: nice weekend?
[13:38] <noodles775> m_3: Yep, sounds sane :) I've subscribed to the bug so I'll know when I can try it. Thanks mor working on it!
[13:39] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: yeah!! busy though!! how was yours?
[13:40] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: nice, very peaceful, cath and laura were still in the UK for most of it
[13:41] <m_3> noodles775: awesome, I'll keep it updated
[13:41] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: cool ;)
[13:41] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: anywas, what's your latest branch?
[13:42] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: hmm :)
[13:43] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: shadow-trunk is not yet updated with either lp:~fwereade/ensemble/cobbler-kill-machine or lp:~fwereade/ensemble/bootstrap-verify-storage
[13:43] <fwereade> but maybe best to skip bootstrap-verify-storage for now: I think it's good, but it could interact with launch-machine (which is merged)
[13:44] <fwereade> and I'd like to be sure of cobbler-launch-machine's status
[13:46] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: ok
[13:47] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: i'll work on top of shadow-trunk first then
[13:47] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: awesome
[13:47] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: if it looks healthy, I'll merge in 2 more and make 3 merge proposals
[13:50] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: awesome!
[13:50] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: it actually works?
[13:52] <fwereade> hazmat: I'm sorry, but I'm really confused about your security-* pipeline: would you please tell me exactly what order I should be looking at them in? I'm driving myself slightly insane
[13:53] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: havent started yet
[13:53] <RoAkSoAx> will let you know as soon as I do
[13:53] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: im updating all the cobbler-side pieces first
[14:03] <fwereade> hazmat: don't worry, I think I've figured it out
[14:36] <niemeyer> Good morning!
[14:37] <niemeyer> Hmm.. funny to say that twice in the same day
[14:38] <niemeyer> Aram, Aram2: Morning to both of you
[14:38] <Aram2> hi :-).
[14:38] <Aram2> I'm having some issues running the tests. http://pastebin.com/GPkiK7uZ
[14:39]  * niemeyer looks
[14:39] <Aram2> I assume it doesn't parse ~/.ensemble/environments.yaml ?
[14:40] <niemeyer> Aram2: Hmmm
[14:40] <niemeyer> Aram2: That's strange.. have you touched any code?
[14:40] <Aram2> no.
[14:40] <Aram2> latest rev from bzr.
[14:40] <niemeyer> Aram2: Let me try to run this test
[14:40] <niemeyer> Aram2: In theory, this test should be mocked
[14:40] <niemeyer> Aram2: Sorry, I actually mean that this part of the logic should be mocked
[14:41] <Aram2> I see.
[14:41] <niemeyer> Aram2: Test passes here
[14:41] <niemeyer> Hmm
[14:41]  * niemeyer reads the test
[14:42] <Aram2> how can I run only this tests and not all?
[14:42] <niemeyer> Aram2: Just take that last string at the end of your paste and put it after ./test
[14:43] <Aram2> also, I am using bzr branch lp:ensemble , I assume this is the branch I am interested about.
[14:43] <Aram2> ah, ok.
[14:43] <niemeyer> Aram2: It is indeed
[14:43] <Aram2> yeah, test fails.
[14:43] <Aram2> ensemble works though.
[14:44] <niemeyer> Aram2: Phew.. that's actually good
[14:44] <niemeyer> Aram2: If it passed it'd mean the failure would come from the interaction between tests, and would be harder to debug :-)
[14:46] <niemeyer> Aram2: Hah
[14:47] <niemeyer> Aram2: This test is actually broken, nevermind
[14:47] <Aram2> heh.
[14:47] <niemeyer> Aram2: It's just that pretty much all of us have the environment set up
[14:47] <niemeyer> Aram2: The real env, I mean
[14:47] <niemeyer> Aram2: Not ~/.ensemble
[14:48] <Aram2> aha.
[14:48] <niemeyer> Aram2: Many EC2 tools depend on the AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID variable
[14:48] <niemeyer> Aram2: and it's partner (AWS_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY)
[14:48] <niemeyer> Aram2: Our tests should not depend on it to run, though
[14:49] <Aram2> yeah...
[14:49] <niemeyer> Aram2: For the moment, you can just disable this test
[14:50] <_mup_> Bug #819329 was filed: Tests depend on AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID being set <Ensemble:Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/819329 >
[14:51] <hazmat> niemeyer, good afternoon ;-)
[14:52] <niemeyer> hazmat: Hey!
[14:54]  * hazmat hands off review queue crown to fwereade
[14:55]  * fwereade peers at it, and tries to put it on his foot
[14:58] <niemeyer> :-)
[14:58] <jcastro> robbiew: heya do you have those 5 reasons narrowed down? I need them for a slide
[14:58] <robbiew> yeah...but they aren't "blessed" yet
[14:59] <robbiew> need to run them by sabdfl with jono
[14:59]  * jcastro nods
[14:59] <robbiew> they are in the Messaging whatever
[14:59] <jcastro> ok
[14:59] <robbiew> one of the bazillion ensemble google docs
[15:02] <niemeyer> :)
[15:03] <niemeyer> Aram2: How's it going overall, btw?  Have you started doing any coding, or still at the understanding phase?
[15:04] <Aram2> Aram2: I have been busy a little bit... I have played with ensemble, read he current code and now I'm trying to make Go and Python work together nicely in some way.
[15:04] <Aram2> it would be nice if you could call one from the other but unfortunately you can'
[15:04] <Aram2> t :-).
[15:05] <niemeyer> Aram2: Right, agreed
[15:05] <niemeyer> Aram2: Note that for this experiment, you don't really have to make them play together
[15:05] <niemeyer> Aram2: The question is more how it'd look like if some pieces were ported over
[15:06] <Aram2> yeah.
[15:13] <_mup_> ensemble/states-with-principals r302 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:13] <_mup_> use constant for otp identity key in domain state dict, machine state tracks otp data reference.
[15:36] <fwereade> niemeyer, hazmat: security-otp-principal
[15:36] <fwereade> intended only to narrow the window of opportunity for a potential attacker, rather than anything stronger?
[15:37] <hazmat> fwereade, i'm in progress on a reply on the mp, the nutshell is your assessment is correct, there is a window till the otp is consumed that an attacker can gain access to the persistent principal credentials if they can get ahold of the otp prinicipal/data enroute.
[15:38] <fwereade> hazmat: thanks
[15:39] <fwereade> is there any way to review "approve so long as you file a bug about this shortcoming when you merge it"? :p
[15:39] <niemeyer> It would be mitigated by encryption, though
[15:39] <fwereade> niemeyer: sorry, what's encrypted?
[15:40] <niemeyer> fwereade: Nothing..
[15:40] <niemeyer> fwereade: It would :)
[15:40] <fwereade> niemeyer: ah :)
[15:40] <niemeyer> For now this is already good progress on top of what we do now
[15:40] <hazmat> fwereade, atm i don't see a good way to manage that risk alternatively without a dedicated security agent.. we effectively create the structure with acls referencing the intended principal credentials within the cli which need to get past through at least one other process (which creates the intended connected client/agent) before they get to their destination
[15:40] <fwereade> niemeyer: absolutely, I don't want to reject it, just to make sure that we track the fact that it's a potential issue
[15:41] <niemeyer> fwereade: I know, I'm just explaining as well, rather than attempting to change your feeling about it :)
[15:41] <hazmat> niemeyer, encryption of the otp data? the decrypt key needs to be passed as well
[15:42] <fwereade> shall I file a bug then, and we can worry about it later?
[15:42] <hazmat> niemeyer, fwereade i'm totally open to alternate ideas on this
[15:44] <fwereade> hazmat, niemeyer: I think that at some stage in the future a security agent may be a good way around this (we could implement something that really did delete all unhashed records of the otp when it was first accessed) but for now I'm happy with it
[15:44] <niemeyer> hazmat: No, encrypt of the channel used to communicate back with zk with the key
[15:45] <niemeyer> hazmat: I think what you have is good progress already
[15:45] <hazmat> niemeyer, fwereade its unclear to me if alternate solutions would work well without such an interception gap without implementing a new zk auth mechanism
[15:45] <niemeyer> hazmat: We can easily hack ZK to implement real OTPs, or other mechanisms in the future
[15:45] <hazmat> niemeyer, sounds good
[15:45] <fwereade> cool, I'll approve and file
[15:45] <niemeyer> fwereade: Agreed
[15:47] <_mup_> Bug #819379 was filed: otp mechanism is vulnerable to interception <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/819379 >
[15:48] <hazmat> fwereade, thanks for the reviews!
[15:48] <fwereade> hazmat: a pleasure :)
[15:53] <SpamapS> kim0: thats an older graphic, though updated with new understanding. :)
[16:02] <robbiew> m_3: call time?
[16:02] <m_3> robbiew: yup
[16:06]  * hazmat enjoys googling for ensemble bugs
[16:08] <niemeyer> Lunch time.. biab
[16:14] <fwereade> need to pop out for a little while, bbs
[17:04]  * niemeyer pops back
[17:34] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: so now the orchestra config should provide a storage-url?
[17:37] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: yes
[17:38] <fwereade> it seemed foolish to assume it was *necessarily* on the same server as cobbler itself
[17:38] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: what's the formatting? http://W.X.Y.Z/abc?
[17:38] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: yep
[17:38] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: well kind of but given that the cobbler server was the "orchestra" server it made sense to keep it there
[17:39] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: fair point :)
[17:41] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: yes cause the idea is to make orchestra automatically configure the webdav server
[17:41] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: and have it up and running post installation and ready to serve ensemble
[17:42] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: let's do this, if no storage-url is provided, then assume a default, which would be the <orchestra-server/webdav>
[17:42] <niemeyer> RoAkSoAx: Agreed, at least defaulting to it sounds like a good plan
[17:43] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: then we can trim that back :)
[17:43] <fwereade> sure, happy to add that
[17:43] <RoAkSoAx> niemeyer: indeed
[17:43] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: yeah! that will allow us more flexibility in case someone would like to chagne the storage somewhere else
[17:43] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: ...but still nothassle people by asking them to configure it until they need it
[17:43] <fwereade> perfect
[17:43] <fwereade> cheers :)
[17:44] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: indeed
[17:48] <daker> m_3, what's the status of the postgres formula ?
[17:55] <fwereade> I think it's the end of my day now; RoAkSoAx, I'll probably be back on later to merge that change through the plumbing and into shadow-trunk (and everywhere else it needs to be)
[17:55] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: btw.. AFAIK, a "name" on a cobbler system cannot be changed
[17:55] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: cool I'll continue my testing
[17:57] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: and the changes on setting the provider-state using the UID doesn't really seem relevant because , as far as I can see, to be able to edit a system, you need to obtain the name of the UID
[17:57] <RoAkSoAx> so at the end it seems to be the same
[18:05] <m_3> daker: in progress... eta few hours
[18:06] <daker> ok
[18:07] <m_3> daker: have machine-based acls working (pg_hba)
[18:33]  * negronjl is away: out to lunch
[18:51]  * niemeyer finds his way through the maze of branches creates by fwereade ;-)
[18:51] <niemeyer> s/creates/created
[19:07] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: belatedly: I just changed a system name, to prove I could
[19:07] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: there's a rename button in the system list
[19:08] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: I think you *can't* change a name while something else is holding a reference to it though
[19:09] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: yeah maybe
[19:09] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: btw...
[19:09] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: the way how you obtaining the keys for clout-init user-data is broken
[19:09] <RoAkSoAx> as it makes clout-init to fail
[19:09] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: bah :(
[19:10] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: I thought I was doing it just the same as in EC2, didn't expect *that* of all things to be a problem
[19:10] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: http://paste.ubuntu.com/656595/
[19:11] <fwereade> goodness me
[19:11] <SpamapS> negronjl: does redis support master<->master replication?
[19:12] <fwereade> I guess it's travelling a very different path to the one it takes on EC2
[19:16] <_mup_> ensemble/webdav-storage-prereq r318 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:16] <_mup_> Merged generic-state-ops.
[19:16] <niemeyer> Please ignore this.. just a temp branch for review
[19:17] <niemeyer> fwereade: Hmm
[19:18] <fwereade> niemeyer: Hmm?
[19:18] <fwereade> (sorry, irresistible symetry)
[19:20] <niemeyer> fwereade: Sorry, just double checking
[19:21] <_mup_> ensemble/webdav-storage-prereq r318 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:21] <_mup_> Merged generic-state-ops.
[19:21] <fwereade> niemeyer: I'm fretting that I've done something unforgivably dumb now :/
[19:21] <niemeyer> fwereade: No, I'm just a bit stuck on webdav-storage
[19:21] <niemeyer> fwereade: I can't find the proper review base
[19:22] <fwereade> niemeyer: is that one of the ones with 2 parents?
[19:22] <niemeyer> fwereade: I get a 600 lines diff on it, including things I already reviewed
[19:22] <fwereade> I seem to recall it requires cobbler-instance-ids as well
[19:22] <niemeyer> fwereade: Yes, but I'm taking that into account
[19:22] <niemeyer> fwereade: Yeah.. I'm merging both of these to form a base
[19:22] <niemeyer> There's still more, apparently
[19:23] <fwereade> niemeyer: hmm, not that I recall...
[19:23] <fwereade> niemeyer: I'm being called, bbs, I'll see if I can see what I've done
[19:24] <niemeyer> fwereade: Hmmm.. part of the diff is within one of the pre-req branches, actually
[19:24] <niemeyer> fwereade: Maybe it's just the diff that is bogus..
[19:24] <niemeyer> fwereade: Let me try something else
[19:26] <niemeyer> fwereade: Alright, I think I got it
[19:26] <niemeyer> fwereade: Don't move too fast.. I'll review it quickly before the diff disappears.. ;)
[19:27] <fwereade> niemeyer: back, shout if I can help at all
[19:27] <niemeyer> fwereade: Super, thanks
[19:34] <niemeyer> robbiew: ping
[19:46] <negronjl> SpamapS: no.  afaik redis only supports master-slave
[19:47] <SpamapS> negronjl: I wonder if we can take the redis-master and redis-slave formulas and just make a 'redis' formula..
[19:47] <negronjl> SpamapS:  i'll give that a shot
[19:48] <SpamapS> negronjl: also can redis slaves be promoted to masters?
[19:49] <SpamapS> negronjl: if thats the case (and not too complicated) then it might make sense to have them work in a ring.
[19:49] <negronjl> SpamapS:  afaik.  yes.  still reading a bit about redis
[20:17] <robbiew> jcastro: ping
[20:18] <jcastro> robbiew: pong
[20:28] <fwereade> ok, I think that really is it for me for now :)
[20:28] <fwereade> nn all
[21:07] <hazmat> niemeyer, the extra security work integrated into domain object creation (service, unit, machine) seems to have some impacts on total test run time, about 25-30% increases, for tests that heavily use the api.. the setup/teardown deltas are under 2%, its just the extra cost of manipulating the additional nodes afaics
[21:12] <niemeyer> hazmat: Hmm
[21:13] <niemeyer> hazmat: If you're comfortable the API is the right one, we can move forward with this no matter what
[21:13] <niemeyer> hazmat: and worry about optimization down the road
[21:14] <niemeyer> hazmat: We can do tricks like disabling the auth steps under controlled scenarios
[21:14] <niemeyer> hazmat: But I'd be happier to run them all the time until we're sure they are good
[21:15] <hazmat> niemeyer, yeah.. i tried seeing what i can do about optimization now, but i'm not seeing any quick gains, i've got most of the api encapsulated into a class, that i could switch toggle by test
[21:15] <hazmat> which might get things a bit closer
[21:15] <hazmat> niemeyer, sounds good re goodness
[22:43]  * niemeyer steps out for watching a movie..
[23:55] <_mup_> Bug #819562 was filed: ensemble.formula.tests.test_bundle fails on buildds <Ensemble:New> <ensemble (Ubuntu):New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/819562 >
[23:57] <_mup_> Bug #819563 was filed: ensemble.formula.tests.test_bundle.BundleTest.test_executable_extraction fails on buildds <Ensemble:New> <ensemble (Ubuntu):New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/819563 >


[02:59] <nhaines> pleia2: how'd it go?
[04:36] <pleia2> nhaines: went well I think! I managed to drag people in so it didn't feel like I was talking to a ghost town ;)
[04:47] <MarkDude> Sry I was not able to participate. I am on CLS and OSCON now-. I was wondering what I have done wrong with the CA ML
[04:47] <MarkDude> I sent to Ubuntus Oregon and Washington
[04:47] <MarkDude> and CA, and only their lists got it
[04:48] <MarkDude> rww helped me on this before, I thought mark @gk was accepted
[04:48] <pleia2> your mail came through fine, larry replied
[04:48] <pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2011-July/001765.html
[04:48] <pleia2> see, it's in the archives :)
[04:49] <MarkDude> Why yes it is
[04:49]  * MarkDude checked earlier and it was not
[04:49] <pleia2> I don't know how they update their list archives, might be a cron job or something that's only run at certain times
[04:49] <MarkDude> Pay no attention to the guy getting hectic for a 36 hour countdown
[04:49] <MarkDude> :D
[04:49] <pleia2> :)
[04:50] <jyo> pleia2: Mt. View Ubuntu Hour on for tomorrow?
[04:51] <pleia2> jyo: as far as I know, yes, but you can confirm with jtatum
[04:51] <jyo> Ah. Thanks!
[06:00] <jtatum> rumors of tomorrow's mountain view ubuntu hour are true! email forthcoming
[06:03] <philipballew> roseville ubuntu hour as well!
[19:15] <philipballew> who runs the twitter page. I need to have the roseville ubuntu hour tweet sent out?
[19:19] <rww> pleia2 has access to it, I think.
[19:19] <pleia2> a bunch of people do, iheartubuntu usually handles the hour announcements
[19:19] <pleia2> I can do it though
[19:20] <philipballew> i can text dave easily
[19:20] <philipballew> if that needs to be
[19:20] <philipballew> or if i was given access do it to? unless thats bad. haha
[19:20] <pleia2> I've got it
[19:20] <philipballew> sweet!
[19:22] <pleia2> 6pm tonight?
[19:22] <philipballew> I think thats when i set it for yeah
[19:22] <pleia2> just confirming the loco directory is correct :) thanks
[19:23] <philipballew> lol. I know your busy, but if anyone in the bay wants to come up, feel free to!
[19:23] <philipballew> haha, take a weekend trip to tahoe and stop on your way up
[19:24]  * pleia2 sends out one for mt view too
[19:24] <philipballew> I see to many people from the bay stopping in this town every weekend to spend the weekend in tahoe. haha. nice place though
[19:26] <pleia2> boo, posterous is acting up
[19:28] <akk> Tahoe is a bit cooler than the central valley in midsummer ... no offense. :)
[19:29] <philipballew> haha, akk if anyone wants to ever go, i have a cabin i rent out. where in the C.V. are you?
[19:30] <akk> I'm not in the central valley, except when I drive through it ...
[19:30] <akk> (and then I"m not on IRC, 'cause I"m not cool and modern like some people)
[19:31] <philipballew> oh, haha. I drove from here to so cal last weekend. TO HOT! i also lack the smart phones and cell phone internet, :)
[19:31] <akk> Roseville is in the CV, no? I was explaining why people might rather go to Tahoe than Roseville in July.
[19:31] <akk> yeah, we got our car's AC "fixed" the day before we drove SJ-LA, and of course the "fix" didn't quite work.
[19:32] <akk> What is it about AC that it always breaks when you're driving on trips up/down I5? Happened on the way to OSCON once too.
[19:33] <philipballew> for sure. there is an in in out here in auburn. its the last in in out before reno. I go there on weekends and always see people who well. just look like they dont belong if you will
[19:33] <akk> And then again the "fix" by the useless mechanic in Portland didn't fix anything, so we had no AC on the way back.
[19:33] <pleia2> there is goes, tweets are out :)
[19:33] <pleia2> (and identica, and facebook)
[19:33] <philipballew> you goin to oscon this time? akk
[19:33] <akk> no, can't, schedule problems
[19:34] <philipballew> me to akk, there are not really any other conventions besides that and scale around
[19:34] <philipballew> thanks pleia2 !
[19:35] <akk> philipballew: No big linux confs. But there are small ones happening fairly often, and sometimes it's hard to find out about them.
[19:35]  * philipballew has retweetd as well
[19:35] <philipballew> the bay area has a few correct?
[19:35] <akk> philipballew: back in -- May, I think it was? -- there were nonstop conferences in the bay area (most of them free!) for about 6 weeks.
[19:35] <akk> Then ... nothing for months.
[19:36] <akk> but some more coming up, codecamp and some google coding thing that's already filled up and I forget what else
[19:36] <philipballew> in sd there is a linux bassed network security confrence i will go to. torcon in ortober, and that is all
[19:36] <philipballew> google coding sounds fun
[19:36] <akk> People keep trying to start websites that track tech confs,
[19:37] <akk> with the result that now it's just as hard to keep up with all the partial tech conf websites as it was to keep up with the tech confs. :)
[19:37] <akk> (it's even harder if you're trying to hear about them early so you can make a proposal)
[19:38] <philipballew> what would you like to do a proposal on?
[19:39] <akk> Depends on the conf, obviously -- a talk for a javascript conf would be different from a python one would be different from privacy camp etc.
[19:40] <philipballew> haha, its true, so you are a programmer i see
[19:40] <akk> yeah, though I don't always talk about programming
[19:41] <akk> though I've been doing that more, partly because confs prefer advanced geeky talks and partly to show that yes, there are women developers giving talks.
[19:43] <akk> Beginner talks are actually more fun -- it's easier to be entertaining and lively talking about concepts than when explaining a page of code.
[19:45] <philipballew> i agree. i went to a talk on python once and though i understood it, i wasnt as excited about that as just a simple talk on vim, vs emac. witch made me laugh
[19:46] <akk> It's possible to be funny on advanced geeky subjects -- the best OSCON preso I went to year before last was on the SMTP (email sending) protocol.
[19:46] <akk> It was hilarious (and still educational), believe it or not.
[19:46] <philipballew> it takes more then just knowing the subject but also good communation skills i gueess
[19:46] <philipballew> *guess
[19:47] <akk> Yes, it's really hard to make a techy subject funny and still communicate good info.
[19:48] <philipballew> I was offered a while back to give a talk on ubuntu, i still need to talk to the lug and set that up.
[19:48] <akk> I try -- I know I'm not as good as some of my speaking idols but I think I'm making progress.
[19:48] <philipballew> read up on good communication or public speaking. :)
[19:49] <akk> I've been in Toastmasters for 7+ years -- trust me, I do a lot of reading and practicing.
[19:49] <philipballew> nice, ive thought about going to one of those. worth it?
[19:49] <akk> oh yes, very much so!
[19:49] <akk> It made a huge difference in my speaking.
[19:50] <akk> In a few weeks I have a 1-day class in javascript for high school girls, and I'm trying to figure out how to do interactive sessions
[19:50] <akk> like "program a person to do something" to illustrate how programming works
[19:51] <akk> which lots of people talk about in theory but nobody seems to write about how you really do that
[19:51] <philipballew> social coding?
[19:52] <akk> I don't know what that is.
[19:53] <philipballew> its like hacking someones mind to do something
[19:54] <akk> That sounds a lot more subtle than what you'd do with a roomful of high school first-time programmers.
[19:55] <philipballew> haha, i understand. my hs tought basic as a first language
[19:56] <philipballew> do you still give talks on gimp?
[19:58] <philipballew> basic is okay, but I would never use it seriously for much
[20:01] <akk> Last year I gave a lot of gimp scripting talks. Haven't given any basic gimp user talks in a while.
[20:02] <akk> I've been thinking maybe it's been long enough that I can start proposing them again.
[20:02] <akk> (confs don't seem to want a topic they've already had in the last few years)
[20:02] <philipballew> i have had a lot of people ask me about it. well. would you wait till 2.8?
[20:05] <akk> I might, for conference talks (where I can't give one again for N years afterward)
[20:05] <akk> though not for local talks -- I'm happy to give local gimp talks any time.
[20:08] <philipballew> haha, you live in a nice area for that. it seems gimp would be non-geekey enough to get a good audience then
[20:09] <raginkestrel> akk: I have just started using Gimp for a website that I am designing.  What is the best way to learn more about the program?
[20:10] <philipballew> raginkestrel, there are good books on gimp i have seen?
[20:10] <akk> Like miiiiine! :)
[20:10] <akk> http://gimpbook.com
[20:11] <raginkestrel> Awesome. I will check out the site now.
[20:11] <akk> If you don't want to buy a book, there are lots of links on my site to online tutorials.
[20:11] <seidos> philipballew: the ppl in #gimp are helpful too
[20:11] <akk> I'd say, do tutorials for a while, and if you find yourself wanting to understand things better, a book will probably help.
[20:12] <akk> At least, that's the way I went. And yes, #gimp (on irc.gimp.org) is helpful. I don't know anything about the one here on freenode.
[20:12] <raginkestrel> I like having a book as well.  It tends to explain more than tutorials.
[20:13] <akk> I started with "Grokking the GIMP" (gimp-savvy.com)
[20:13] <akk> which is a great book, but the UI is way out of date (it's based on gimp 1.x).
[20:14] <raginkestrel> If you give a local talk will you publish on the mailing list?
[20:15] <akk> On ubuntu-california? That might be sort of off-topic.
[20:15] <akk> Have to go, back in an hour or two ...
[20:16] <raginkestrel> Thanks for your help everyone.  I have got a few good leads here!
[20:17] <philipballew> raginkestrel, sweet!
[20:19] <raginkestrel> One more question.  Is this channel open for all topics or just topics strictly related to loco events?
[20:34] <seidos> raginkestrel:  not really sure.  i am hesitant to bring up all kinds of weird stuff, but mostly because i imagine people in the channel giving me funny looks and slowly wandering away from me
[20:35] <nhaines> raginkestrel: it's focused on LoCo stuff (not just events) but general chatter's fine too.  Just remember that this channel is logged and publically archived.
[20:35] <raginkestrel> seidos: lol, I was worried about that too.
[20:36] <raginkestrel> nhaines: Is this basically where California members hang out, or more official?
[20:38] <nhaines> raginkestrel: It's officially the California Local Community Team IRC Channel, but no one here bites and anyone is welcome anyway.
[20:38] <raginkestrel> I caught Jono Bacon's presentation this morning and he recommended joining.  However, the loco website recommends getting in touch before joining.  Who do I get in touch with?
[20:39] <pleia2> sometimes we talk about our cats (or turtles)
[20:39] <pleia2> being here is "getting in touch" :)
[20:39] <pleia2> hello!
[20:40] <raginkestrel> Hello!  I will now go to Launchpad and join.
[20:40] <jono> I like turtles :-)
[20:40] <raginkestrel> jono, I have a pond and need a couple of turtles to keep fish under control.
[20:42] <jono> :-)\
[20:42] <jono> :-)
[20:44] <raginkestrel> All right, it appears that I am now a member.  Now what?
[20:44] <seidos> saw turtles @ the exploratorium on tuesday
[20:44] <seidos> suckers are deceptively fast when they want to be
[20:47] <nhaines> pleia2: I just downloaded Ubuntu 10.04.3 LTS and threw the ISOs on my NAS drive here at work.
[20:48] <pleia2> \o/
[20:48] <nhaines> 5.75GB is an easier download at work!  :)
[20:48] <raginkestrel> I have been personally advocating Ubuntu.  How do I learn more about troubleshooting and the command line.  I am a little worried that I will have a configuring issue on someone elses computer and not know how to deal with it?
[20:49] <nhaines> And it looks like a coworker just got Ubuntu 11.04 installed on his Macbook.
[20:50] <seidos> raginkestrel: best way is probably to get your hands on someone's "cheat sheet", but there is also a program i heard about called "cli companion" written in python
[20:52] <raginkestrel> seidos, where can I get a "cheat sheet" or do I just need to get to know people here better?
[20:52] <seidos> raginkestrel: i'd give you mine, but it's on a hdd that i don't have access to right now
[20:53] <seidos> i want to post it on my site, along with two other "projects"
[20:53] <raginkestrel> seidos: No worries.  I have learned a lot in the last three months between the forums and irc.
[20:54] <seidos> no worries no worries \o/
[20:54]  * philipballew waves to seidos
[20:55]  * seidos waves back
[20:56] <seidos> ttyl all
[22:34] <pleia2> http://blog.grossmeier.net/2011/07/21/moving-to-sf-working-with-cc/ \o/
[22:34] <pleia2> we steal more ubuntu people!
[22:34] <pleia2> (sorry michigan)
[22:50] <quicksilver_> "Oracle today announced it's completed the acquisition of K-Splice, dropping support for Redhat, CentOS, and SUSE, and closing doors to new customers. Unless of course you want to become a Oracle Linux Premier Support subscriber — then it comes as standard."
[22:50] <quicksilver_> [/slashdot]
[23:00] <pleia2> remember the days when oracle wasn't completely evil? those were the days
[23:01] <quicksilver_> Good placement of the word "completely"
[23:02] <pleia2> yeah, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a time when they weren't at least a little evil
[23:03] <pleia2> but you know, back in the day, biggest database player in the world supports their product on linux, cool cool
[23:04] <broder> uh, i know hte ksplice guys personally
[23:04] <broder> i don't think i've seen any evidence that they were dropping support for non-oracle products
[23:04] <broder> i assume people are getting worked up over "The combination of Ksplice technology and Oracle Linux Premier Support is expected to be the only enterprise Linux provider that can offer zero downtime updates"
[23:05] <broder> but ksplice can continue to sell RHEL, etc. updates without contradicting that statement
[23:05] <broder> since the updates wouldn't be coming from the EL provider
[23:06] <broder> (also, seirously, for crying out loud, you link to the wikipedia article but mis-capitalize and mis-hyphenate "Ksplice"?)
[23:07] <pleia2> yeah, it would be sad if the aquisition meant that ksplice itself stopped being developed outside of oracle (which would kinda be hard to prevent)
[23:07] <broder> anyway, i can't back this up with facts, because my friends at ksplice don't seem to be on any form of im at the moment
[23:08] <broder> but they're certainly not evil, even if oracle is
[23:08] <pleia2> I don't think anyone said they were, it's all oracle
[23:08] <pleia2> oracle has been making a mess of open source all year
[23:08] <broder> actually, looks like lwn got a quote from an e-mail jeff sent out: http://lwn.net/Articles/452498/
[23:09] <akk> It's strange -- oracle had done some good pro-linux things prior to buying sun, then suddenly they turn around and start acting goofy.
[23:09] <pleia2> yeah
[23:10] <akk> Admittedly sun always acted goofy and inconsistent about open source, so maybe the sun goofiness combined with the oracle huge-corporationness.
[23:10] <pleia2> that's been my assumption
[23:10] <jyo> but guys, they donated OOo to Apache so we're all cool now. :P
[23:10] <pleia2> jyo: it only took a major fork and loss of all their contributors!
[23:11] <pleia2> "well this is useless now, here apache"
[23:11] <jyo> go go license incompatibility


[01:45] <N-S> How can I install a more recent (beta/unstable) version of a program?
[10:52] <turtle_> anyone rolling with koffice?
[10:55] <Guest21111> Hello, I need some advice
[10:56] <Besogon> asc
[10:56] <Guest21111> What's the shortcut command to open the application menu?
[10:57] <Besogon> I don't know
[10:59] <Guest21111> Found it. It's /usr/bin/xfce4-popup-menu
[14:04] <alienkid10> how my friends windows SYSTEM registry hive is corrupt or missing and they are me fix it, but they want their data backed-up so I employed Ubuntu for the job. Unfortunately the NTFS partition is "in use" and I am unsure if forcing it to mount would cause more damage. So if I force it would it cause more damage?
[14:07] <TheSheep> you can back up the whole disk with dd
[14:07] <TheSheep> without having to mount it
[14:07] <alienkid10> I can mount the partition
[14:07] <alienkid10> and I don't have storage for 100GB of info
[14:08] <alienkid10> would forcing it cause more damage?
[14:14] <alienkid10> would?
[14:14] <alienkid10> * would it?
[14:18] <alienkid10> gtg
[16:10] <wilsonj> anyone know how I could go about changing my default filemanager?
[21:21] <S0210> Is there a way to figure out the original file name of the pictures in .tumbnails?
[21:27] <Hezy> S0210: that's an interesting qustion
[21:33] <SiDi> S0210, i dont think you can
[21:43] <S0210> Hmmm... are they created by the thunar?
[21:45] <Hezy> S0210: I'm not an expert, but I understand that they can be imported from the camera itself, or get made by any app
[21:47] <Hezy> I think that the xfce thumbnail infrastructure is being rewritten right now, so whatever you find might not be true in the near future
[21:53] <SiDi> S0210, yeah, but there is no way that i know to retrieve an image with the current system
[21:53] <SiDi> XFCE 4.8 will come with a new lib for thumbnail manipulation, with which there will be ways to do this
[21:54] <SiDi> (developers ways, though)
[21:54] <Hezy> you should look for a general way to do it, not in xfce
[21:55] <SiDi> Well, i think the current pictures names are generated by a hash of the location of the original picture
[21:55] <SiDi> so you cant find the original location from the hash
[21:59] <SiDi> Hezy, S0210 i asked an XFCE dev and he said that the image should contain the location of the original file in its metadata
[22:02] <S0210> SiDi: thank you
[22:22] <omniplatform> I got problems with 9.10 Alpha 3 installed via wubi.  When I boot and select xubuntu, the screen goes black and it resets itself
[22:30] <SiDi> omniplatform, this looks like a X crash
[22:30] <SiDi> what if you boot xterm ?
[22:30] <SiDi> And did you try Ubuntu ? Does GNOME boot ?
[22:32] <omniplatform> ahhh, no Gnome isn't installed, just xubuntu with xfce
[22:32] <omniplatform> I don't get the chance to boot xterm, I don't think.  from the windows OS selector, I select xubuntu then it immediately reboots
[22:33] <SiDi> I meant from the login manager
[22:33] <SiDi> So it crashes before login ?
[22:33] <SiDi> (the alpha 4 is out, by the way :P)
[22:34] <omniplatform> yes, long before login (oh I think it is alpha 4 after all)
[22:35] <omniplatform> trying it again (i'm chatting using a different 'puter than the one I'm trying to fix)
[22:36] <omniplatform> OK, I get "Please select the operating system to start:" then the two options, WinXP Home and Xubuntu
[22:37] <SiDi> Okey, this is the windows bootloader, since you installed with Wubi
[22:37] <omniplatform> it displays something really fast, then turns off. I'll try again to pause it at the message
[22:38] <omniplatform> it says "Try hd" something or other before turning off
[22:38] <omniplatform> "Try (hd0,0): NTFS5
[22:38] <SiDi> Ok, i think the bootloader entry is doing something wrong, or it does things right and then grub2 does something wrong :/
[22:38] <SiDi> you should ask for a similar issue in #ubuntu+1
[22:39] <SiDi> if noone can confirm, then i suppose you'll have to get the whole message and report a bug against Ubuntu Karmic in https://bugs.launchpad.net
[22:40] <omniplatform> The message i see very briefly(after the "Try hd...) and cannot seem to pause in time says something about memory
[22:42] <omniplatform> also says something about "type help"
[22:42] <omniplatform> ok, I'll try to take this over if I don't get more info