[05:04] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Stephen Michael Kellat: Remembering Planning @ http://coyote.works//remembering-planning.html
[07:59] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: The story of a feature: “View my invoices” @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/ux-design-story-invoices-feature
[13:40] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Vivaldi 4.0 Comes with Built-in Privacy-Friendly Translation @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/06/vivaldi-4-0-adds-a-privacy-friendly-translation-feature (by Joey Sneddon)


[00:01] <mrooney> lifeless: awesome thanks!
[00:02] <mrooney> my wildest dreams have true
[00:02] <mrooney> have come true, that is
[00:04] <mrooney> Actually my wildest dream would be one that functioned instantly offline by remembering info when it could
[00:04] <mrooney> but this will do nicely
[00:18] <jelmer> lifeless: so, different topic
[00:19] <jelmer> lifeless: you were talking about (optional) support for an index in bzr quite a while ago
[00:19] <jelmer> lifeless: how exactly would that fit in with the working tree?
[00:22] <lifeless> jelmer: remind me?
[00:23] <lifeless> jelmer: oh, no, I don't want an index. I think the index is a bug
[00:23] <lifeless> I want tagging of changes/paths in a tree, and tags supplied to operations like commit and diff
[00:23] <lifeless> I called these 'marks' to differentiate
[00:25] <jelmer> ahh
[00:25] <jelmer> so no staging area-like things?
[00:25] <lifeless> hell no
[00:26] <jelmer> bleh
[00:26] <lifeless> that leads to UI confusion and layer leakage
[00:26] <lifeless> look at commit -A,
[00:26] <lifeless> an unbreakme option if ever there was one
[00:26] <jelmer> you're making my job implementing a good mapping for git indexes ;-)
[00:26] <lifeless> being able to commit content totally unrelated to what your editor sees is a bug
[00:26] <jelmer> *a lot harder
[00:27] <lifeless> I wouldn't map it, I would give bzr running against a git tree bzr semantics.
[00:28] <lifeless> igc: so commit is good yeah?
[00:28] <jelmer> lifeless: well, I have to map git semantics to bzr semantics
[00:28] <jelmer> lifeless: that's a lot easier if bzr has a staging area :-P
[00:29] <lifeless> jelmer: You'll need to explain this for me, because I don't see why
[00:35] <jelmer> lifeless: so, what I'm trying to figure out is what "bzr add" should do in a git working tree
[00:36] <lifeless> jelmer: it should make sure the files are versioned
[00:37] <ronny> well, git add works on a  "add to the content of next commit basis"
[00:38] <poolie> lifeless: i just filed bug 348750 quoting your mail
[00:38] <poolie> i was quite confused :)
[00:38] <ronny> the staging area basically keeps track of the desired content changes in the whole tree
[00:38] <jelmer> lifeless: yeah, but that means adding the *current* version to the index
[00:39] <jelmer> lifeless: if the file gets changed after the add, those new changes won't be committed
[00:39] <lifeless> ronny: not quite, but yes, I do know what goes on here :)
[00:39] <jelmer> lifeless: in other words, what I'm saying is it's hard to map a git index to the Bazaar working tree APi
[00:39] <lifeless> jelmer: sure they will if you make sure you do the equivalent of 'commit -A'
[00:39] <ronny> yeah, i probably oversimplified the issue
[00:41] <lifeless> jelmer: as I said, I wouldn't make the index *at all*.
[00:41] <lifeless> s/make/map/
[00:41] <poolie> jelmer IMO it should remember it as 'versioned' and then commit should build the index implicitly
[00:41] <lifeless> looks like poolie agrees with me :)
[00:41] <lifeless> poolie: 'commit -A' in git updates the index from the current disk, for paths already in the index.
[00:41] <poolie> there is a bit of a question of where you would keep that
[00:41] <poolie> is this for using bzr in a git working tree, or just committing to a git repo?
[00:42] <jelmer> bzr in a git working tree
[00:43] <ronny> one could view the index as temporary commit on top of the actual tip
[00:43] <poolie> jelmer: i don't know if this is a great solution but one thing that would work would be to use the index just to keep track of which ones are versioned
[00:43] <poolie> ronny: i know what it is thanks
[00:43] <poolie> we just have a different model and we're trying to map them across
[00:44] <poolie> so, anyhow, then commit would need to re-add the files already in the index that match the commit parameters
[00:45] <lifeless> and back out unselected ones to the last commit state
[00:45] <lifeless> poolie: I think you are proposing exactly what I am
[00:45] <poolie> right
[00:53] <jfroy> Hello people. Quick question: is there a command to change the name of a local branch and update where a lightweight checkout of that branch?
[00:53] <jfroy> I have repo/A and a lightweight checkout of A in repo/sandbox. I want to move A to B (simple mv command), but I'm not sure how to switch over sandbox. switch will not operate because it doesn't find A.
[00:54] <jfroy> *and update the branch path of a lightweight checkout of that branch
[00:57] <poolie> jfroy: hi, will 'bzr bind NEWLOCATION' do it?
[00:58] <jfroy> poolie: no, it also errors out
[01:02] <mrooney> If I am going to attempt to do a branch of a quite large svn repos with bzr-svn, is it worth upgrading bzr on my Intrepid machine via the PPA, from 1.6.1-1?
[01:02] <mrooney> Will I get anything to improve that
[01:08] <spiv> mrooney: latest bzr-svn is much better than the version in Intrepid
[01:09] <spiv> mrooney: and it in turn requires a more recent bzr than 1.6.1-1
[01:09] <lifeless> mrooney: there is a major version upgrade to bzr-svn. much goodness.
[01:09] <spiv> Hopefully the ~bzr PPA has the current bzr-svn package, it usually does.
[01:13] <mrooney> spiv: 0.5.3-1?
[01:13] <spiv> mrooney: yeah
[01:16] <mrooney> oh for the PPA dependency, do I have to manually add that for it to work?
[01:16] <mrooney> oh no here we go I think
[01:18] <mrooney> oh no! this works differently
[01:18] <mrooney> before if my username didn't match and I just hit enter, it would ask me for the username
[01:18] <mrooney> now it just changes to "None password: "
[01:18] <mrooney> how can I specify a username?
[01:21] <spiv> mrooney: I think bzr-svn uses the same authentication.conf as the rest of bzr
[01:21] <spiv> mrooney: bzr help authentication | less
[01:22] <mrooney> okay, well the None user thing seems to be a regression
[01:22] <SamB> I would have expected it to use subversions authentication cache ...
[01:22] <spiv> mrooney: or maybe you can just stick the username in the URL?
[01:22] <spiv> mrooney: yeah, it does sound like a regression.
[01:23] <SamB> just make a bug
[01:23] <mrooney> yes that does work if I put it in the right place!
[01:26] <Guest68274> SamB: it also uses the svn authentication cache
[01:27] <Guest68274> SamB: but it won't store new credentials into the svn cache
[01:29] <mrooney> sweet bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AssertionError !
[01:30] <lifeless> mrooney: try running 'svn log URL' to get svn to cache the credentials, that used to work
[01:31] <mrooney> lifeless: well I got the credentials to work I think
[01:31] <mrooney> the AssertionError came in the middle of a branch
[01:31] <mrooney> multiple revisions in
[01:33] <mrooney> Expected <CachingRevisionMetadata for revision 5, path  in repository '4c6ca7b2-8423-0410-87e0-f25a40cf7e9c'> got <CachingRevisionMetadata for revision 4, path  in repository '4c6ca7b2-8423-0410-87e0-f25a40cf7e9c'>
[01:34] <lifeless> mrooney: interesting
[01:35] <lifeless> unfortunatly the bzr-svn author is asleep right now
[01:35] <lifeless> could you file a bug ?
[01:35] <mrooney> sure, against bzr?
[01:35] <Guest68274> lifeless: no, I'm not :-)
[01:35] <lifeless> mrooney: bzr-svn please
[01:36] <Guest68274> mrooney: is this bzr-svn 0.5.3?
[01:36] <mrooney> Guest68274: yeah, from the PPA
[01:36] <lifeless> Guest68274: oh, I didn't recognise you
[01:36] <mrooney> "  svn                  /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/plugins/svn [0.5.3]"
[01:39] <mrooney> jelmer: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/109661/
[01:40] <mrooney> that should be helpful I hope!
[01:40] <mrooney> it seems to get to roughly 30/1000 before dying
[01:48] <jelmer> mrooney: the repository is not public, I presume?
[01:52] <mrooney> jelmer: that is true :)
[02:01] <jelmer> mrooney: please file a bug
[02:01] <mrooney> jelmer: okay, can you give me a title for it?
[02:02] <jelmer> mrooney: what sort of changes do "svn log -v -r4" and "svn log -v -r5" report?
[02:04] <mrooney> jelmer: -r4 is a commit "manufactured by cvs2svn to create branch XX"
[02:04] <jelmer> mrooney: what sort of changes does it contain though?
[02:05] <jelmer> mrooney: file edits, file adds, deletes?
[02:05] <mrooney> Changed paths:
[02:05] <mrooney>    A /branches/XX (from /trunk:3)
[02:05] <mrooney>    D /branches/XX/CVSROOT
[02:05] <mrooney> and then r5 seems to be...nothing?
[02:07] <mrooney> jelmer: But the error doesn't appear until decently past r5, does that still make sense?
[02:10] <mrooney> the last number I seem to see is "copying revision 31/1000"
[02:10] <jelmer> mrooney: "revision without changes causes exception" would be a good title
[02:11] <jelmer> mrooney: bzr-svn should be warning you that you are cloning Subversion repository as branch.
[02:11] <mrooney> yes it is indeed
[02:12] <jelmer> mrooney: any reason you're cloning the repository root anyway, rather than using svn-import ?
[02:12] <jelmer> The latter should not trigger this bug
[02:13] <mrooney> I don't know, I just want to have the whole svn repos with version history
[02:13] <mrooney> is there a better way?
[02:13] <jelmer> mrooney: yes, svn-import should do that
[02:13] <mrooney> it says to use svn-import to get individual branches in the warning
[02:13] <mrooney> it doesn't recommend using that instead
[02:14] <mrooney> jelmer: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr-svn/+bug/348786
[02:14] <mrooney> okay I must head out for today, but I can look into svn-import tomorrow if you recommend it
[02:15] <jelmer> mrooney: but you're looking to import the individual branches right?
[02:15] <mrooney> no
[02:15] <jelmer> mrooney: e.g. trunk/ as a separate branch
[02:15] <jelmer> mrooney: branches/foo as a separate branch, etc
[02:16] <mrooney> I basically want a backup of the svn repository, that I can pull from each night and be up to date
[02:16] <mrooney> having those as branches would be nice
[02:16] <mrooney> so then I want svn-import?
[02:16] <jelmer> mrooney: yes
[02:17] <mrooney> jelmer: okay, I will use --incremental I guess
[02:17] <mrooney> since I don't want to lose it all if it fails at the 25,000th rev :)
[02:18] <mrooney> I am guessing that is what --incremental will get me, at a slight speed loss?
[02:18] <jelmer> mrooney: it's failsafe even without --incremental
[02:19] <jelmer> mrooney: --incremental will give you a speed improvement
[02:19] <mrooney> ...interesting!
[02:19] <jelmer> as it will remember where you left off the import
[02:20] <mrooney> okay, I am off for now but this has made it much further using svn-import
[02:20] <mrooney> at 500
[02:20] <mrooney> but, it says of /23902
[02:20] <jelmer> it breaks again at r500?
[02:20] <mrooney> no it is still going :)
[02:20] <jelmer> ah good :-)
[02:20] <mrooney> and it actually ends at 28,000 something
[02:20] <mrooney> and using branch seemed to notice that correctly
[02:21] <mrooney> so I am not sure, what that means
[02:21] <jelmer> mrooney: not all svn revisions will be imported as bzr revisions
[02:21] <mrooney> oh okay, whereas with branch they would?
[02:21] <jelmer> mrooney: e.g. that revision 5 won't show up in the bzr repository created this way
[02:22] <mrooney> hm so you lose forced commits and their messages?
[02:22] <jelmer> mrooney: yes, you lose commits that don't touch any of the branches
[02:23] <jelmer> however, a branch created with "bzr branch" on the repository root wouldn't be very useful in bzr and would use a significant amount more disk space
[02:24] <mrooney> oh okay, well thanks for your help and good work on bzr
[02:24] <mrooney> good night!
[02:24] <jelmer> gnight
[04:02] <johnf> Has anyone ever tried using bzr bd on a cdbs based package that only has a control.in in the repo?
[04:03] <johnf> hmm dpkg-buldpackage doesn't work either. Maybe time to read up on cdbs
[04:11] <spiv> jelmer: has the escaping of / in bzr-svn revids changed recently?
[04:12] <spiv> jelmer: I'm getting 'branches have diverged' when I try to pull Python's trunk, my disk has svn-v4:6015fed2-1504-0410-9fe1-9d1591cc4771:python/trunk:70244, but "bzr revision-info -d http://svn.python.org/projects/python/trunk" reports svn-v4:6015fed2-1504-0410-9fe1-9d1591cc4771:python%2Ftrunk:70601
[04:15] <spiv> jelmer: I'll just file a bug :)
[04:20] <spiv> jelmer: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr-svn/+bug/348805
[04:49] <lifeless> igc: ping; any chance of a reviewof my commit branch?
[04:55] <igc> lifeless: probably not today unfortunately - I didn't sleep last night so I'm not awake enough for a review that important
[04:56] <poolie> lifeless: i possibly can but i'm going to finish that mail first
[04:56] <igc> lifeless: I can tomorrow if no-one beats me to it
[04:59] <lifeless> igc: thanks
[04:59] <lifeless> poolie: no worries; that mail has priority :)
[05:03] <igc> lifeless: I didn't publish the results without your patch. For commit, they were 4x slower from memory so the proposed code is a big win. Really well done
[05:04] <lifeless> igc: thanks
[05:55] <BasicOSX> pyftpdlib working nicely with python2.6, good job
[07:05] <lifeless> well I'm done for the day modulo interest-fiddles
[07:23] <vila> hi all
[07:24] <vila> BasicOSX: glad you like it ;-)
[08:09] <CBro2007> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged. Use the merge command to reconcile them.
[08:10] <CBro2007> I get this error when I do a "bzr pull /goldrepo"
[08:10] <CBro2007> why is it saying that the branches have diverged?
[08:10] <CBro2007> Is it good to use pull or should I use merge?
[08:11] <CBro2007> I basically have a MAIN trunk where the gold copy of the app resides... every developer has his own FEATURE branch
[08:11] <CBro2007> now I want them to be able to UPDATE or SYNCH their branches with the latest changes in the gold copy as I could have merged in some other developer's features in there that everyone must have
[08:11] <CBro2007> should I use merge or pull?
[08:12] <CBro2007> or get them to infact use... merge or pull?
[08:14] <bob2> diverged = one is not a subset of the other
[08:14] <bob2> ie they're not just out of sync, they have both made independent commits the other has not picked up
[08:14] <CBro2007> but that will always be the case wouldn't it
[08:15] <bob2> no
[08:15] <CBro2007> I mean in reality developers will constantly keep committing changes to their own branch
[08:16] <CBro2007> ok so if a developer was working on a feature....  he shouldn't be commiting his changes to his local branch before his feature is completely done and he is ready to merge it into TRUNK?
[08:16] <CBro2007> is that what you are saying?
[08:16] <bob2> no
[08:16] <bob2> it will vary depends on what you and your developers do
[08:16] <CBro2007> yeah but I just told you what they will do
[08:17] <CBro2007> they will work on feature branches
[08:17] <lifeless> CBro2007: if its a feature branch they should merge from trunk
[08:17] <CBro2007> and once they are happy with their changes they will tell me which rev no committed copy I should merge into trunk
[08:17] <lifeless> CBro2007: if its a mirror they should pull
[08:17] <CBro2007> I suppose I am using a FEATURE branch then eh?
[08:18] <CBro2007> so when they do a merge they would still keep their local changes yeah?
[08:20] <lifeless> yes
[08:20] <lifeless> have you experimented with merge
[08:21] <CBro2007> yeah i have
[08:21] <CBro2007> whats the "pending merges"
[08:21] <CBro2007> ?
[08:22] <CBro2007> it seems like local changes have to be COMMITTED before you can do a MERGE
[08:22] <bob2> yes
[08:23] <lifeless> CBro2007: so you do a merge, and bzr leaves the result wwaiting for review
[08:23] <lifeless> you review it and commit
[08:23] <lifeless> and then you can continue
[08:23] <CBro2007> ok cool
[08:23] <CBro2007> get it
[08:23] <CBro2007> its pretty cool when you get the hang of it
[08:24] <lifeless> we think so :)
[08:24] <CBro2007> so I am thinking that the merge should work both ways - trunk to feature branch and vice versa
[08:24] <CBro2007> even if they are out of synch
[08:24] <lifeless> yes
[08:24] <CBro2007> like someone has been adding stuff to trunk directly
[08:24] <CBro2007> and someone to the feature branches
[08:24] <CBro2007> and we can merge all at anytime yeah>?
[08:24] <lifeless> to take something from a feature branch and put it in trunk, you cd to trunk, run bzr merge feature-branch, bzr commit -m "add feature to trunk"
[08:24] <CBro2007> yeah
[08:25] <CBro2007> and I can also merge a given revision with the -r (n) if i wanted
[08:25] <CBro2007> :)
[08:25] <CBro2007> soon I will be full of "bazaar life" mr lifeless
[08:25] <CBro2007> hahahhaha
[08:26] <lifeless> :)
[08:26] <lifeless> vila: so, I've spun up 18-way amazon on 8-way cores for testing... its fun
[08:26] <vila> lifeless:  isn't it :-)
[08:27] <lifeless> finding some interesting bugs
[08:27] <lifeless> did you see my doctest bug ?
[08:27] <vila> lifeless: I don't think so, where ? tests.parallel ?
[08:28] <lifeless> bb
[08:38] <CBro2007> wondering if I should let developers merge their shit into trunk directly
[08:38] <CBro2007> :)
[08:39] <CBro2007> or have them send it to me for review first
[08:41] <lifeless> CBro2007: what do they do at the moment ?
[08:41] <CBro2007> nothing
[08:41] <CBro2007> :)
[08:41] <CBro2007> I am setting up bzr so we can start to share the code
[08:41] <lifeless> ok
[08:41] <CBro2007> and they can make changes
[08:41] <lifeless> so I'd say don't add policy at the same time as adding technology
[08:41] <CBro2007> but don't want them putting in shit willy nilly
[08:42] <CBro2007> if they merged in stuff that is shit... it would be harder for me to get rid of it
[08:42] <lifeless> if at the moment the way they get their code deployed is 'cp to production', then thats basically willy nilly
[08:42] <CBro2007> they are not coding at the moment
[08:42] <CBro2007> its just been me all this while
[08:42] <CBro2007> they are going to be jumping on board to work on more features
[08:43] <CBro2007> but its still going to be a learning curve for them
[08:43] <CBro2007> so I would still like to review some of their work before I merge it into the GOLD copy
[08:43] <CBro2007> :)
[08:43] <CBro2007> I know I sound like a dick.. but hey
[08:43] <CBro2007> :)
[08:45] <lifeless> so, in which case, you should own 'gold' and merge features you're happy with
[09:57] <maxb> Does anyone know if 1.13.1 will be reaching Debian sid soon?
[10:35] <lifeless> vila: so, command line arg or variable, for test suite munging
[10:35] <lifeless> actually,
[10:35] <lifeless> I know
[10:36] <lifeless> I will do shiny long needed refactorin
[10:36] <lifeless> g
[10:36] <vila> lifeless: I'm all ears :-) Refactoring  what targeting what ?
[10:38] <kinkie> Hi guys.. a question o repository moving (if it's possible at all). I have a shared repo at /src/project/repo, containing various branches, which I check out and work on at /src/workspace. I'd like to move the shared repo up one level, to /src, to save on storage space. Is it possible to do somehow or would I have to create new branches, send -o and merge? Thanks1
[10:42] <Kinnison> I would recommend branching inside the repo and then making lightweight checkouts into /src/workspace
[10:42] <Kinnison> that way you get the "space" savings you're interested in, without compromising your current workflow any
[10:43] <kinkie> ok.
[10:43] <LarstiQ> also making sure not to have working trees in the repo
[10:43] <Kinnison> Indeed
[10:43] <Kinnison> a treeless repo and a separate area for lightweight checkouts is what I do for these kinds of things
[10:44] <kinkie> That's what I also do, but I was wondering if it was easier to do something different ;)
[10:48] <lifeless> vila: suite modifications, chain, like I made log
[10:50] <vila> lifeless: Hmm, the alternative. I'm not totally convinced by it, but I see where you're going,
[10:50] <vila> the main point that makes me nervous is that it means adding a 'fake' test to represent the remote suite,
[10:51] <vila> which I find a bit artificial, but I may be wrong and it may be the best trade-off
[10:52] <vila> I think it should make remote(parallelized) possible and clearer though
[10:52] <lifeless> vila: test suite is a composite pattern
[10:52] <lifeless> so a test is a suite is a test
[10:52] <lifeless> jml: http://pybites.blogspot.com/2009/03/unittest-now-with-test-skipping-finally.html
[10:53] <vila> I think it also requires that such modifications be done last rather than first
[10:55] <lifeless> well
[10:55] <lifeless> I think the ordering will be important
[10:55] <lifeless> if thats what you mean
[10:55] <vila> yes
[10:56] <vila> we don't want TestInSubprocess to filtered out because its id doesn't match some pattern for example
[10:57] <vila> since we tend to flatten test suite via iter_suite_tests or things like that, not a big concern right now, but it kind of make the design more fragile
[11:01] <vila> lifeless: your refactoring will include putting randomize_suite and exclude_tests_by_re inside that chain right ?
[11:20] <lifeless> vila: do you have python 2.4 handy?
[11:20] <lifeless> vila: if so, can you tell me if the base TestSuite has __iter__ defined in 2.4
[11:21] <vila> yes
[11:21] <vila> in unittest ?
[11:21] <lifeless> yes
[11:21] <vila>     def __iter__(self):
[11:21] <vila>         return iter(self._tests)
[11:21] <lifeless> so, regarding iter_suite_tests
[11:22] <lifeless> I see two possible approaches
[11:22] <lifeless> one is to say, if we iter, and it would break it (e.g. randomising), we should pass that responsibility onto children
[11:23] <lifeless> by e.g. passing --random to them too
[11:24] <vila> you mean children == subprocess, not children == tests right ?
[11:24] <lifeless> yes
[11:25] <lifeless> the other is to say, if we iter, the container should do what it needs to
[11:25] <lifeless> anyhow, nearly done
[11:27] <vila> Or we can make two chains: one post-load and one pre-run :-)
[11:29] <vila> lifeless: by the way, since randomizing was introduced to exhibit isolation problems (AFAIU) I wonder if it's still needed...
[11:29] <vila> I found more isolation problems by running test one by one than by randomizing the order
[11:30] <lifeless> I have no use for randomisation, never did :)
[11:41] <poolie> that was the point of it
[11:43] <lifeless> poolie: ok, well I'm not proposing to remove it
[11:43] <lifeless> it fits into this refactoring fine
[11:58] <lifeless> vila: not quite right :P
[11:58] <vila> lifeless: what ?
[11:58] <lifeless> [6/17475 in 8s]
[11:58] <lifeless> Ran 6 tests in 9.021s
[11:58] <vila> oh, your refactoring :)
[11:59] <vila> I like the elapsed time, try to keep it that way :)
[12:00] <lifeless> so
[12:00] <lifeless> http://paste.ubuntu.com/138181/
[12:02] <nevans> I'd like to set "whoami" for all of the branches in a shared repo (vs 'bzr whoami --branch' in each individual branch)... is that easily doable?
[12:03] <lifeless> sure, set it in ~/.bazaar/locations.conf
[12:04] <lifeless> vila: what do you think [there was a tiny bug, its fixed]
[12:05] <lifeless> two teeny bugs, fixed :P
[12:06] <vila> lifeless: in ExcludeDecorator ?
[12:07] <vila> lifeless: ignoring the details, the design sounds good
[12:07] <lifeless> can I claim 'refactoring, please no new tests'? :)
[12:07] <lifeless> vila: with this design, a plugin can do all of BZR_PARALLEL
[12:08] <vila> lifeless: you two bugs were caught by the actual test suire right ?
[12:08] <lifeless> yes
[12:08] <vila> s/you/your/
[12:08] <lifeless> [160/180 in 45s] test_selftest.TestTestResult.test_strict_with_known_failure
[12:08] <lifeless> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
[12:08] <lifeless> Ran 180 tests in 45.973s
[12:08] <lifeless> selftest selftest
[12:08] <vila> refactoring under test suite umbrella doesn't require new tests :-)
[12:09] <vila> selftest -s bt.test_selftest :)
[12:09] <lifeless> bb:approve then?
[12:09] <vila> BB:APPROVE
[12:10] <vila> But I don't see a way to plugin into suite_decorators
[12:11] <vila> provided in builtins.py ?
[12:11] <lifeless> yes
[12:11] <vila> yeah ! :)
[12:11] <lifeless> Command.hooks['extend_command']
[12:12] <lifeless> btw
[12:12] <lifeless> run 'bzr selftest selftest
[12:12] <lifeless> note the double printing of what we're testing
[12:12] <lifeless> something isn't isolated correctly
[12:14] <vila> ECANTREPRODUCE, bzr selftest selftest --no-plugins ?
[12:15] <vila> reproduced elsewhere
[12:16] <lifeless> kinkie: just mv /src/foo/bar /src/bar
[12:16] <lifeless> kinkie: or whatever
[12:17] <lifeless> kinkie: you may want to adjust some paths in ~/.bazaar/locations.conf
[12:18] <vila> lifeless: mv ~/lib/python/subunit ~/lib/python/subunitxx makes the double printing disappear
[12:18] <vila> not pointing fingers....
[12:19] <lifeless> odd..
[12:22] <lifeless> vila: its printed out in builtins.py
[12:23] <nevans> lifeless: thanks!  of course.   But yet :)
[12:24] <vila> using 'print' in builtins is wrong too
[12:27] <lifeless> yes
[12:27] <lifeless> jml: so, ConcurrentTestSuite, testtools will accept, or won't.
[12:27] <lifeless> jml: I need to know
[12:32] <vila> lifeless: bzr selftest -s bt.blackbox.test_selftest.TestOptions.test_subunit
[12:33] <vila> either gulty or victim
[12:34] <lifeless> ah
[12:34] <lifeless> I know what it will be
[12:34] <lifeless> the runner is not being contained
[12:34] <lifeless> or something like that
[12:34] <lifeless> probably guilty
[12:34]  * lifeless points fingers at whoever reviewed the test
[12:34] <vila> LOL
[12:35]  * vila points finger to self for still missing a test farm running isolated tests on a regular basis :)
[12:37] <lifeless> do you know if its possible to have an optional option
[12:38] <lifeless> e.g. --parallel[=foo] ?
[12:38] <vila> came under discussion with jam recently: no, but we should
[12:39] <vila> work-around : use a magic value :-/
[12:39] <vila> i.e. --parallel=0 => cpucount()
[12:42] <vila> lifeless: can you take http://paste.ubuntu.com/138205/ ?
[12:42] <vila> rhaa http://paste.ubuntu.com/138206/
[12:43] <lifeless> vila: thats better, but you know what would be awesome
[12:44] <vila> you know I don't (yet :)
[12:44] <lifeless> vila: do that printing by calling something [not foo.stream.write!] on the result object
[12:44] <vila> 'that' ?
[12:45] <vila> you realized -v and progress bar prints *during* execution, right ?
[12:46] <lifeless> 'that' == 'testing: ...'
[12:53] <vila> haa, so it can tell: testing 'this' 'here' ?
[12:54] <vila> I was wondering about remote testing issues if you test from os1 to os2...
[12:54] <vila> .. cans of worms
[12:55]  * vila needs to eat
[12:56] <lifeless> I'm off to be
[12:56] <lifeless> http://paste.ubuntu.com/138212/
[12:56] <lifeless> d
[12:56] <lifeless> thats my reimagined version
[12:56] <lifeless> it looks better to me
[12:57] <lifeless> night all
[14:12] <blizzz> hi, i have trac installed on a ubuntu 8.10 server. i want to use trac-bzr, but i get the warning: Warning: Can't synchronize with the repository (Unsupported version control system "bzr". Check that the Python support libraries for "bzr" are correctly installed.)
[14:13] <blizzz> i am new to both bzr and trac, so i don't really know where to look... google search didn't help either
[14:29] <jam> morning vila
[14:33]  * blizzz found a solutiob
[15:23] <jam> vila: http://paste.ubuntu.com/138325/
[15:28] <Tak|work> jelmer: have you tried my branch of the md-bzr addin lately?
[15:28] <Tak|work> jelmer: also, hi
[15:29] <jam> vila: http://paste.ubuntu.com/138326/
[17:04] <SamB> Is there a good way to see what the default push target is from a (non-python) script?
[17:07] <asabil> SamB: using bzr info ?
[17:07] <SamB> hmm.
[17:07] <SamB> I suppose that's not much dirtier than a lot of the tricks dvc already uses ...
[17:08] <asabil> SamB: I think you can also use the xml-output plugin
[17:08] <asabil> well gtg now, ttyl
[17:25] <stbuehler> how can i get bzr log to show the svn revision numbers? (debian testing/unstable bzr 1.13~rc1 + bzr-svn 0.5.3 )
[17:25] <Peng_> stbuehler: It doesn't do it for revisions created by bzr.
[17:26] <stbuehler> another reason never to use it again -.-
[17:26] <stbuehler> thx for the info
[17:26] <stbuehler> and please update at least the docs to mention this
[17:28] <jelmer_> hmm?
[17:29] <Peng_> Hiya jelmer_.
[17:30] <jelmer_> Peng_: what's up with lighttpd and bzr-svn?
[17:36] <Peng_> jelmer_: I don't know. What he said.
[17:37] <jelmer_> Peng_: 18:25 < stbuehler> another reason never to use it again -.-
[17:37] <mrooney> jelmer_: the svn-import seems to have been a success!
[17:38] <mrooney> although how do I update it, I tried doing a pull but it isn't a branch
[17:38] <Peng_> jelmer_: I don't know about that.
[17:38] <Peng_> Oh, he upgraded to bzr-svn 0.5! That's nice.
[17:39] <Peng_> jelmer_: He has a point about documenting the revno thing. I only found out about it after asking you. Not that I read the docs anyway... :P
[17:39] <jelmer_> mrooney: you can run svn-import again
[17:40] <jelmer_> Peng_: well, he didn't exactly seem happy about the upgrade..
[17:40] <Peng_> Indeed.
[17:40] <Peng_> I don't know anything about it, though.
[17:41] <mrooney> jelmer_: so it doesn't have a memory of the location, I should specify it each time?
[17:41] <jelmer_> mrooney: yeah
[17:41] <mrooney> I basically want to run it nightly to have a backup
[17:41] <mrooney> okay
[17:45] <mrooney> jelmer_: how functional, thanks :)
[19:24] <sohail> hey guys, I have a versioned directory that I want ot move into its own repository, maintaining history
[19:25] <sohail> any ideas on how to do this?
[19:25] <sohail> main use case for this is that this directory is never branched and I keep ediitng branched versions by accident
[19:42] <nekohayo> hmm. is there a way to apply a .patch easily? Tried bzr apply and bzr patch, no luck?
[19:44] <Peng_> nekohayo: What kind of patch? A regular .patch file, or a bzr bundle? For the latter, "bzr merge foo.patch"; for the former, I dunno.
[19:45] <nekohayo> a regular patch I guess.. I usually make patches by doing bzr diff>foo.patch
[19:48] <Peng_> Why are you sending around regular patches? You've got a DVCS! Use it! :D
[19:54] <nekohayo> peng_ in normal circumstances yes, but someone sent me a patch by mail :)
[20:42] <thumper> sohail: I know it can be done, but I don't know how
[20:42] <thumper> sohail: perhaps jam recalls
[20:43] <thumper> jam: splitting a versioned directory out of a branch into its own branch
[20:43] <jam> thumper, sohail: So there is a hidden command 'bzr split' which effectively does this, though I think you have to be in a 'rich-root' format for it to 'just work'.
[20:43] <jam> The direct alternative is:
[20:43] <jam> bzr branch project newsubproj
[20:44] <jam> cd newsubproj
[20:44] <jam> rm * (not the dir I want)
[20:44] <jam> mv dir/* .
[20:44] <jam> rmdir dir
[20:44] <jam> etc
[20:45] <jam> sohail: but do you want to continue having this subdir in the project? Just not edit it most of the time?
[21:04] <sohail> jam no I want it to be totally separate
[21:05] <sohail> essentially, I have a "training" sub-directory which I use to store the tex sources for training sessions
[21:05] <sohail> don't really need to branch it. I'll look into bzr split
[21:05] <sohail> thanks thumper & jam
[21:05] <thumper> sohail: bzr split will branch it
[21:06] <thumper> sohail: I'm pretty sure it is just a nicer UI around what jam suggested
[21:06] <sohail> I guess I could just do a branch and remove everything else like you say
[21:07] <jelmer_> 'evening jam, thumper
[21:07] <jam> hi jelmer_
[21:08]  * jelmer_ just finished some performance improvements to bzr-git
[21:08] <jelmer_> it now works ok on medium-size repositories, such as the git one
[21:09] <Peng_> jelmer_: Congrats. :)
[21:09] <thumper> hi jelmer_
[21:10] <thumper> jelmer_: excellent
[21:10] <thumper> jelmer_: we have the bzr-git stuff landed in LP now
[21:10] <thumper> jelmer_: no UI yet to request it though
[21:10] <jelmer_> thumper: ah, cool
[21:10] <thumper> jelmer_: we're going to test it over the current cycle
[21:10] <jelmer_> thumper: is there some other way to request imports?
[21:11] <thumper> jelmer_: yes, there is an import your project button
[21:11] <jelmer_> thumper: I have URLs for some small repositories that would be worth testing with
[21:11] <thumper> jelmer_: feel free to email them to me
[21:11] <jelmer_> thumper: will do
[21:14] <jelmer_> trying the kernel now >-)
[21:16] <jelmer_> thumper: looks like the kernel is actually doable
[21:17] <jelmer_> thumper: no huge memory usage anymore, albeit a bit slow
[21:17] <gnomefreak> what does bzr-builddeb do differently than dpkg-buildpackage with patch handling
[21:19] <jelmer_> gnomefreak: it can set tags for you when you release
[21:20] <jelmer_> gnomefreak: it provides revision specifiers in bzr for accessing debian versions
[21:20] <jelmer_> (e.g. "bzr ls -rpackage:1.0-1")
[21:20] <gnomefreak> jelmer_: dpkg-buildpackage fails to build makes a patch fail where as bzr builddeb doesnt make it fail. same source same bzr branch
[21:20] <jelmer_> it can automatically check out upstream if that's in bzr/svn
[21:20] <jelmer_> gnomefreak: what does dpkg-buildpackage provide exactly?
[21:20] <gnomefreak> since hardy doesnt have bzr-builddeb i have no choice
[21:21] <gnomefreak> jelmer_: it has to be used oin hardy since i get errors about bzr-builddeb not finding module or something along those lines
[21:22] <jelmer_> gnomefreak: but I mean, what patch handling are you talking about?
[21:22] <gnomefreak> jelmer_: dpkg-buildpackage in hardy the build fails on a patch where as bzr-bd doesnt fail at all
[21:22] <jelmer_> gnomefreak: what sort of patch?
[21:23] <jelmer_> gnomefreak: dpatch/quilt/cdbs/... patch ?
[21:23] <gnomefreak> +++ mozilla/config/autoconf.mk.in
[21:23] <jelmer_> or is the packaging branch in bzr-loom ?
[21:23] <gnomefreak> quilt
[21:23] <gnomefreak> bzr-loom?
[21:24] <gnomefreak> all mozilla packages that we package are quilt cdbs now
[21:24] <jelmer_> gnomefreak: afaik bzr-builddeb just runs a builder (such as dpkg-buildpackage), it doesn't worry about patches in debian/patches/ itself
[21:24] <gnomefreak> jelmer_: my point
[21:24] <jelmer_> gnomefreak: does debuild work?
[21:24] <gnomefreak> did try it i guess i should
[21:25] <gnomefreak> there is the failed build http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24369029/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.lightning-sunbird_0.9%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu3~8.04~jjv1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz  on my PPA the other 2 built fine
[21:27] <gnomefreak> debuild fails the same way on same patch
[21:27] <gnomefreak> if the patch was a problem than intrepid and jaunty would have failed as well
[21:32] <gnomefreak> im fairly sure building bzr bzr-bd python and friends is a bit more work than i would have thought
[21:35] <jelmer_> gnomefreak: sorry, no idea :-/
[21:35]  * jelmer_ joins nevans in saying spiv/lifeless's work on HPSS push rocks \o/
[21:37] <gnomefreak> jelmer_: thanks i have to get back to this build. does bzr-builddeb need a version of python or any version will work?
[21:38] <gnomefreak> if i can get away without building all python deps than it shouldnt take too long
[21:40] <jelmer_> gnomefreak: I think 2.4 (which dapper has) should be sufficient
[21:41] <gnomefreak> jelmer_: ok thanks ill give it a shot tonight i hope
[22:02] <spiv> jelmer_: thanks :)
[22:04] <lzhang> stacked branches in bzr
[22:04] <lzhang> what are they for?
[22:04] <Peng_> lzhang: So you can make a branch without keeping the entire history of the parent on your disk.
[22:04] <Peng_> lzhang: It's like heavyweight vs. lightweight checkouts.
[22:14] <sohail> jam, thumper fyi I just did it the manual way :-)
[22:14] <lzhang> Peng_: what's the distinction between a stacked branch and one created with the --lightweight flag
[22:15] <thumper> lzhang: a lightweight branch is a checkout and points to the repository and branch which are often in a different directory
[22:15] <thumper> lzhang: a stacked branch is one where the branch contains only the revisions that are not in the stacked on branch's repository
[22:17] <fullermd> There's no such thing as a --lightweight branch.  That's a checkout.
[22:17] <fullermd> So, the difference is that one's a checkout, and the other's a branch  ;)
[22:17] <lzhang> I see, makes sense
[22:24] <sohail> how do you guys back up your bzr repositories?
[22:25] <sohail> I'm using rsync for offsite backup
[22:25] <lzhang> no need, it's distributed all over the place for us
[22:25] <lzhang> every dev has a copy
[22:25] <sohail> sure but I mean for personal repositories
[22:25] <sohail> by "you guys" I meant "users of bzr"
[22:25] <lifeless> sohail: I push it somewhere :)
[22:25] <sohail> :-)
[22:25] <lzhang> oh, time machine hehe
[22:26] <sohail> rsync should be safe right?
[22:26] <lifeless> as long as noone is committing
[22:26] <lzhang> ya man totally
[22:26] <lifeless> or pushing
[22:26] <sohail> right now I have it distributed across 3 machines locally but I am making an offsite backup
[22:27] <lzhang> is there anything like svn's vendor branches for bzr?
[22:28] <sohail> svn does vendor branches by accident
[22:30] <lifeless> sohail: rsync reads the file system but isn't guaranteed to get a consistent snapshot of databases; and bzr is basically a databas.e
[22:30] <lifeless> sohail: which is why you can't be altering a repo when it runs and get a safe backup
[22:30] <lzhang> sohail: what does that mean
[22:30] <sohail> lifeless, so how would I push onto my server?
[22:30] <lifeless> sohail: 'bzr push' :)
[22:30] <sohail> that' sit?
[22:31] <lifeless> its what I do to make sure I have another copy of my code
[22:31] <sohail> really
[22:31] <lifeless> you can use rsync, just don't be committing/pulling/pushing while rsync runs
[22:31] <sohail> yeah I get that
[22:32] <sohail> I should be using anacron to schedule this too..
[22:37]  * igc breakfast
[22:41] <davidstrauss> We need something like this: http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2009/03/intro-to-git-for-web-designers/
[22:42] <lzhang> I say you guys need to fix up launchpad
[22:42] <lzhang> github is way cooler
[22:43] <lzhang> if you want a designer to use bzr then there has to be a gui client that looks like this
[22:43] <lzhang> http://versionsapp.com/
[22:43] <lifeless> davidstrauss: wow, someone vomited on that web page
[22:44] <davidstrauss> lifeless: lol
[22:53] <sohail> lzhang, a designer is not going to use bzr... svn is way easier
[22:54] <sohail> though I guess a gooey makes it easier
[23:00] <lifeless> well, designers do use bzr
[23:00] <lifeless> so there is at least an existence proof that they do :)
[23:07] <wgrant> How is svn easier than bzr?
[23:08] <jelmer_> wgrant: it has more polished GUI's, especially on windows
[23:09] <wgrant> Ah.
[23:09] <wgrant> But GUIs are overrated.
[23:15] <sohail> wgrant, you'd probably have some kind of time explaining that to a designer
[23:18] <lifeless> jam: do you want to talk about fetch?
[23:18] <lifeless> jam: also, is the commit stuff approve/tweak/whatever?
[23:20] <lifeless> jml: ping
[23:21] <jml> lifeless: pong
[23:21] <lifeless> so, I want to land bzr parallel test support to trunk
[23:21] <lifeless> poolie is happy with a [for-this-only] dependency on testtools
[23:21] <lifeless> or I can land the bits I wrote in evenings in bzr
[23:22] <lifeless> there are two classes I think have nothing to do with bzr, ConcurrentTestSuite and ThreadsafeForwardingResult
[23:27] <jml> lifeless: ok. so you think those should go into testtools
[23:27] <lifeless> I think that few people are finding 'bzrlib' when they search for python test support stuff
[23:28] <lifeless> have a look at this patch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/138212/
[23:29] <lifeless> you can see that all the bzr machinery for achieving parallelisation is separate to these classes
[23:30] <jml> sure.
[23:30] <jml> why the startTest / stopTest around all the calls in ThreadsafeForwardingResult?
[23:31] <lifeless> it aggregates
[23:31] <lifeless> consider two threads each with a test that takes 1 second to execute
[23:31] <lifeless> the point of TFR is to make sure the target sees t1.start, t1.RESULT, t1.stop, t2.start, t2.RESULT, t2.stop
[23:32] <jml> except if one of those tests adds two errors, then the output will be a bit confusing
[23:32] <lifeless> yes, though calling addError twice is not well defined anyhow
[23:34] <lifeless> stock TestResult in verbose mode will look ugly if you do that, for instance
[23:34] <lifeless> sorry, TextTestResult
[23:34] <jml> agreed. it happens a lot in testing concurrent apps though.
[23:34] <lifeless> ewll
[23:34] <lifeless> I could make it batch until stopTest
[23:35] <lifeless> so stopTest would do result.start, for status in self.statii: status(result); del self.status[:]; result.stop
[23:36] <lifeless> bah, to clever in spelling for my own good, but you get the idea
[23:36] <jml> my hunch is that some people would want that, and others would want what you have in the patch.
[23:37] <lifeless> I think that while unittest is unclear, but essentially implies that you should call just one status, its appropriate to stay with that
[23:37] <lifeless> also hav eyou seen the upstream skip stuff now?
[23:37] <jml> no, not yet.
[23:37] <jml> I've seen the Twisted bug report about it.
[23:37] <lifeless> http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/unittest.py?r1=70555&r2=70554&pathrev=70555
[23:38] <lifeless> http://pybites.blogspot.com/2009/03/unittest-now-with-test-skipping-finally.html
[23:38] <jml> wtf is ClassTestSuite?
[23:38] <lifeless> exactly
[23:38] <lifeless> I'm rather unhappy with the patch
[23:39] <lifeless> but perhaps I'm just coloured by liking clear code
[23:40] <lifeless> anyway
[23:41] <lifeless> jml: what I need is 'in princple yes, this is testtools material, submit to bzr without them and we'll move testtools stuff through' or
[23:41] <lifeless> 'no, I'm not happy with this in the near/immediate future, put it in bzr'
[23:41] <jml> lifeless: in principle I'm happy with concurrency support in testtools.
[23:41] <jml> lifeless: so, yes.
[23:41] <lifeless> ok
[23:42] <lifeless> I'll get a branch of testtools with both of these in it; that will let us review and discuss it, and put a patch for bzrlib depending on that branch
[23:42] <lifeless> and I'll make any changes you need
[23:49] <jml> lifeless: thanks.


[07:28] <k_alam> Trevinho: u there ?
[07:28] <Trevinho> k_alam: hey yes
[07:29] <k_alam> I have dropped the extra dependency from sharing panel.
[07:32] <k_alam> I have rebased unity patches for nautilus 3.30, can you please take if is the right approach for 20_add_timestamp_to_operations.patch ? https://git.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/nautilus/+git/unity-3.30/tree/debian/patches/20_add_timestamp_to_operations.patch
[07:33] <k_alam> and also for 19_unity_open_location_xid.patch
[07:33] <k_alam> https://git.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/nautilus/+git/unity-3.30/tree/debian/patches/19_unity_open_location_xid.patch
[07:44] <k_alam> other patches are in https://git.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/nautilus/+git/unity-3.30/tree/debian/patches
[08:11] <k_alam> Trevinho: And then there is this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1795888
[08:11] <k_alam> I tried to fix this in https://code.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/indicator-sound/gicon-regression-fix, but even then plugExternalMic fails. When I install it works ok, but we should fix those anyway.
[23:20] <PaulePanter> Hi. Using Ubuntu 18.10 with chromium-browser 70.0.3538.77-0, TLSv1.3 enabled sites are only loaded with TLSv1.2.
[23:20] <PaulePanter> Does a switch need to be enabled?
[23:21] <PaulePanter> https://calomel.org/ or Cloudflare or Facebook use TLSv1.3 already.
[23:22] <PaulePanter> … and it works with the shipped Mozilla Firefox browser.
[23:22]  * PaulePanter notes that ubuntu.com doesn’t support TLSv1.3 which is a pitty.


[00:03] <mr-rich> Ever since I applied the latest updates to my 12.04 LTS install, transparancy doesn't work anymore ... any ideas? I'm using the "Glassified" theme.
[00:10] <MichaelP> fresh install 13.04 kde 4.11.. updated installed fglrx and can't get desktop effects working!!
[00:38] <CmdrViral> Hello.
[00:42] <CmdrViral> Okay, I'm having an odd issue trying to install Kubuntu 13.04 on my laptop. The display refuses to show when running through Live USB. I get output when loading the kernel which seems to just be dmesg information and then the Kubuntu logo flashing. Past that? Black screen. I know something is running because my wireless card's indicator ticks on.
[00:44] <CmdrViral> The USB was set up using LinuxLive USB Creator.
[00:53] <rah_> anybody know anything about chevy's?
[00:56] <CmdrViral> Anybody have any clue what my issue could be? I'm about to try 12.04 and just do a distro upgrade.
[01:16] <juacom99> hi, i got a noob question, where is the right path to install a game system width, and the game data?
[06:10] <simplife> jfef
[06:10] <simplife> \help
[06:58] <Kristall> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/ How stable is 13.10 so far?
[07:02] <valorie> Kristall: try #ubuntu+1
[08:02] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:11] <rohan> does anyone know what power backend will kubuntu 13.10 use?
[08:11] <rohan> Reason i ask is that the pm-utils which 13.04 uses is antiquated
[08:12] <rohan> doesn't accept patches, doesn't support in-kernel suspend/hibernate
[08:42] <tsimpson> rohan: you could try asking in #ubuntu+1
[08:50] <V0dk4L3mm0n> someone know how to remove the little line under some letter in kde?
[09:13] <yofel> rohan: systemd-logind replaces pm-utils
[12:21] <rockprincess> hi
[12:21] <rockprincess> does anyone have experience with multipathing?
[12:21] <BluesKaj_> 'Morning folks
[12:22] <rockprincess> morning ;)
[12:25] <rysiek|pl> hi there
[12:25] <rysiek|pl> I have a problem with sound on Kubuntu 13.10 Beta and Dell Vostro 3350
[12:25] <BluesKaj_> hi rysiek|pl. rockprincess
[12:25] <rysiek|pl> and can't seem to fix it
[12:26] <rysiek|pl> I googled, I duckduckgo'd, to no avail
[12:26] <BluesKaj_> rysiek|pl, laptop?
[12:26] <rysiek|pl> I deleted all pulseaudio related configuration files, still nothing
[12:26] <rysiek|pl> BluesKaj_: Dell Vostro 3350
[12:26] <rysiek|pl> yup, a laptop
[12:26] <rysiek|pl> Phonon correctly identifies that headphones are being connected
[12:27] <rysiek|pl> but there's no sound
[12:27] <rysiek|pl> KMix shows full volume
[12:27] <BluesKaj_> rysiek|pl, run aplay -l and pastebin th eoutput
[12:29] <rysiek|pl> okay, I am officially a dumbass
[12:29] <rysiek|pl> the headphones were damaged, just tested on another device
[12:29] <rysiek|pl> -_-'
[12:30] <rysiek|pl> BluesKaj_: sorry to bother, I am now going to hide under a rock somewhere
[12:30] <BluesKaj_> rysiek|pl, run aplay -l in the terminal
[12:30] <rysiek|pl> BluesKaj_: it works. the headphones were broken. just tested on different headphones, everything works
[12:31] <BluesKaj_> rysiek|pl, some advice , buy some decent headphones
[12:31] <rysiek|pl> well-deserved, I give you that
[12:33] <rysiek|pl> so, how is everything in the Kubuntu world? been out on Chakra, Sidux and Aptosid for a year or so and now getting back to good ole Kubuntu
[12:35] <BluesKaj_> seems fine , fewer muckups and non boot issues with 13.10 and kde 4.11 ,compared to 12.10 and 13,04
[12:36] <BluesKaj_> 13.10 has it's own support chat at #ubuntu+1 , btw
[12:36] <rockprincess> anyone know anything about multipathing on linux?
[12:36] <rysiek|pl> BluesKaj_: yeah, figured, but thought it might be more of a K issue
[12:37] <BluesKaj_> rysiek|pl, usually audo probs these days are with the intel-hda driver kernel module not loading at startup
[12:38] <BluesKaj_> err audio
[12:38] <BluesKaj_> rockprincess,multipathing?
[12:38] <rysiek|pl> yeah, figures
[12:39] <rockprincess> BluesKay_ yes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_DM_Multipath
[12:39] <rockprincess> like this
[12:40] <BluesKaj_> rysiek|pl, sudo mopdprobe snd-hda-intel , usually solves 50% of the audio issues :)
[12:41] <rysiek|pl> BluesKaj_: :)
[12:42] <rysiek|pl> BluesKaj_: I just spent 20h migrating my 140k (no, not a typo) e-mails between different KMail2 versions. I was a bit frustrated with it all, hence my audio-jack-snafu ;)
[12:43] <BluesKaj_> rockprincess, this channel is for Kubuntu specific support not Linux server questions in general .
[12:43] <rysiek|pl> rockprincess: this seems more of a server-side thing; Kubuntu is rather geared towards desktops/laptops/end user devices
[12:43] <rysiek|pl> BluesKaj_: ah, beat me to it!
[12:44] <rysiek|pl> rockprincess: I'd suggest #debian, for example
[12:44] <rockprincess> yeah thought so....
[12:44] <rockprincess> thanks anyway...
[12:44] <rysiek|pl> cheerio
[12:44] <rysiek|pl> cu in #debian ;)
[12:44] <rockprincess> also I seem to have a major problem with the recent version of kmail2 too
[12:44] <rysiek|pl> rockprincess: KMail2 is a major problem, in and of itself
[12:44] <rockprincess> somehow i can't read emails anymore...they're downloaded but i can't display them :(
[12:45] <rockprincess> rysieklpl: hmm, kmail2 seemed to work fine for me, before I upgraded to kde 4.11.1 :(
[12:45] <rockprincess> fucking backports....lol
[12:46] <rysiek|pl> rockprincess: I'd suggest: 1. backing everything up; 2. deleting all KMail/Akonadi/Kontact-related config files and directories; 3. adding all accounts you can as IMAP; 4. restoring POP account e-mails from backups by importing them with the import wizard in KMail
[12:47] <rysiek|pl> this is exactluy what I have been doing for the better part of yesterday and this night; and it does seem to fix a number of problems, including serious speed hurdles
[12:47] <rysiek|pl> however, now my GPG/PGP signing does not work, yay.
[12:47] <BluesKaj_> yeah , I gave up on  Kmail , fortunately my setup doesn't depend on a database email server ,. thunderbird works for home users like me.
[12:48] <rockprincess> rysieklpl: WOW, sounds like a major pain in the ass :( to start with, I wouldn't know how to back everything up, since emails are no longer stored in .kde/share/apps/kmail2 it seems?!
[12:48] <rockprincess> BluesKaj_ yeah, I have thought about migrating to thunderbird as well.....but I haven't found a way how to EXPORT mails from kmail2 and IMPORT them in thunderbird...
[12:50] <rysiek|pl> rockprincess: do you have any POP3 accounts, or are you using IMAP exclusively?
[12:50] <rysiek|pl> rockprincess: if only IMAP, you're home. if POP3, well, the e-mails are indeed being kept somewhere on the disk, usually in ~/.kde/share/apps/kmail2 or something (look for .dotfiles)
[12:51] <rysiek|pl> rockprincess: or do a find .kde/ -iname 'cur', this will find you any Maildirs
[13:27] <MonkeyDust> gnome user here - for testing purposes: how do I install new icons in kde? following this guide... KDE control panel > application appearance > icons... and then? where is it?
[13:27] <MonkeyDust> http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Buuf+for+KDE+%28KDE+3%29?content=56726
[13:32] <BluesKaj_> MonkeyDust, look for "Get New Themes" , it's the installer
[13:34] <rysiek|pl> okay, I am starting to get really frustrated with KMail and GPG
[13:35] <rysiek|pl> each time I try to sign a message I get "Bad password" message, twice; not once am I asked about the password
[13:35] <rysiek|pl> ffs
[13:35] <MonkeyDust> BluesKaj_  ok, it's there, tnx, but just want to know how to do it manually
[13:35] <BluesKaj_> rysiek|pl, maybe the people at #kde can help
[13:36] <rysiek|pl> humm
[13:36] <rysiek|pl> will try
[13:36] <ScottyK> on a fresh install of Kubuntu, I'm making a separate /home partition. How much space should I reserve for kubuntu itself?
[13:36] <BluesKaj_> MonkeyDust, choose the "install theme file" option and navigate to the themes you've downloaded
[13:38] <BluesKaj_> ScottyK, between 12-15G is plenty if you autoremove and autoclean periodically
[13:39] <ScottyK> BluesKaj - Thanks!
[13:39] <BluesKaj_> ScottyK, np :)
[13:44] <rysiek|pl> #kde is silent
[13:45] <rysiek|pl> and there has to be a way to debug gpg-agent
[13:45] <rysiek|pl> I mean, ffs, I don't even know if KMail is actually trying to call it
[13:48] <ScottyK> Question - I have 14 packages that are broken and will not update. I've tried "sudo dpkg --configure -a" but that doesn't clear it out like it usually does. Next step?
[14:03] <BluesKaj> ScottyK, try , sudo apt-get -f install
[14:07] <ScottyK> @BluesKaj - Didn't work. Throws out same list of errors.
[14:08] <BluesKaj> ScottyK, dependency errors ?
[14:09] <ScottyK> BluesKaj - yes, lots of them
[14:09] <ScottyK> looks like a bunch of "libqt4" errors
[14:10] <BluesKaj> ScottyK, ok , make sure you don't have any old ppas hanging around
[14:10] <ScottyK> All 14 refer back to this , "libqt4-network:amd64 is not configured yet"
[14:13] <BluesKaj> ScottyK, did you upgrade via the internet or do a clean install ?
[14:14] <ScottyK> Did a clean install months ago, everything was working fine. Had a power burp last night during the routine update, and that's when I noticed the dependency errors
[14:15] <BluesKaj> ok ScottyK , do you have libqt4-network installed ?
[14:17] <ScottyK> checking...
[14:18] <ScottyK> yes, current version.
[14:18] <ScottyK> The error it throws out is too large to post here. Is there some sort of website one can post the error, and link back to it? Don't want to flood the channel.
[14:19] <BluesKaj> !paste
[14:20] <pm3003> hello everyone i would like to report a bug but i dont know where : On Kubuntu 13.10 Beta 1, the master sound volume adjuster ("Built in audio (stereo analog)") doesn´ t work when used by clicking on the tray icon. However, everything is fine when I use the mixer by clicking on "Mixer". Where should I report ?
[14:27] <ScottyK> I've got pastebin installed. How do I dump the error messages that come up into a .txt file so it can be uploaded?
[14:29] <BluesKaj> select all , or the lines you want to copy and drag them into the pastbinit icon in the panel , if you installed pastebinit
[14:30] <BluesKaj> then it will gib=ve you a url to post in here
[14:31] <BluesKaj> ok , it's called just pastebin now , but the method should be the same
[14:33] <tgary> Hi! How can I set "default apps" from the gnome apps to the kde apps? First I installed Ubuntu, then installed the kde packages. Now in mc or in Eclipse when I click to a pdf, it opens Evince, and not Okular.
[14:33] <ScottyK> pastebin icon? Not seeing that anywhere..
[14:35] <BluesKaj> tgary, install kubuntu-desktop, then you set defaults in "system settings>default applications
[14:36] <ScottyK> food time, back in a while...
[14:40] <tgary> BluesKaj: kubuntu-desktop is installed. Under "default applications" only 7 associations can be set. The "File Associations" is also ok, for pdf handling Okular is on the top. (Dolphin also opens Okular.) However as mc is not a kde application, is opens Evince by default.
[14:41] <BluesKaj> tgary, not file associations , default apps is what you wnat to setup
[14:41] <tgary> BluesKaj: I think, if I would have started with Kubuntu (and not Ubuntu), mc would open Okular and not Evince by default. ?
[14:42] <tgary> BluesKaj: Under default apps only 7 apps can be set: email client, text editor, fileman, messenger, term emulator, browser and window manager. There is nothing about "pdf files".
[14:43] <BluesKaj> tgary, with 2 desktops you have several duplicate apps that have differnt names but essentaily accomplish the same things , so the default apps have to be chosen in each desktop if you plan on continuing with 2
[14:45] <tgary> BluesKaj: no, now I just use KDE. I often fire up Konsole, and start mc. But when I press enter to a pdf file, it continues to open Evince instead of Okular. How can I "switch the whole system" to a KDE based system?
[14:45] <izanagi> i have a question: i have kubuntu 13.04 with plasma-netbook. How can i remove Find and run from task manager on panel?
[14:45] <BluesKaj> !purekde | tgary
[14:47] <BluesKaj> izanagi, find and run ?
[14:48] <izanagi> i dont have english version, i mean desktop looks like normal program on panel
[14:48] <tgary> izanagi: I don't know what do you refer exactly, but plasmoids everywhere can be removed by first right click unlock widgets, the right click, remove this panel.
[14:50] <izanagi> tgary:  if you run application you can see it in the taskbar on the panel, icon + name
[14:50] <izanagi> tgary:  but desktop is there too
[14:50] <izanagi> tgary: just like web browser or something
[14:57] <BluesKaj> izanagi, right click on the desktop icon and choose remove or close , or you also have the options in taskmanager settings
[15:00] <izanagi> BluesKaj: there is no remove, close dont work, in setting there is nothing about it
[15:01] <BluesKaj> izanagi, can you post a screenshot ?
[15:02] <izanagi> where can i upload ss?
[15:02] <tgary> izanagi: a screenshot would help. But I think you want to remove an accidentally added "plasmoid" (or widget). Sometimes it is hard to find the right click, "remove this plasmoid" command.
[15:05] <tgary> izanagi: find something, like imagebin or such.
[15:06] <izanagi> http://www19.speedyshare.com/JDMaC/download/zrzut-ekranu3.png
[15:09] <izanagi> in the left top corner
[15:09] <izanagi> znajdz i uruchom, which stands for find and run
[15:09] <BluesKaj> iz post your image in imagebin.org , no need for any downloading on our part to see the image'
[15:09] <BluesKaj> izanagi,^
[15:09] <izanagi> or execute
[15:10] <izanagi> yes, no need, link just look like that, but ok
[15:11] <tgary> BluesKaj: do not click to the download button, instead click the filename on the top. It will be opened in the browser.
[15:12] <BluesKaj> it didn't open here
[15:12] <BluesKaj> my adblock is probly on
[15:12] <izanagi> http://imagebin.org/271557
[15:13] <tgary> BluesKaj: I opened with noscript on.. : )
[15:15] <BluesKaj> tgary, that looks like the panel toolbox , it's part of the panel
[15:17] <izanagi> on my desktop computer, on kubuntu on mint i dont have that program icon
[15:17] <BluesKaj> mint isb't kubuntu
[15:17] <BluesKaj> isn't
[15:17] <izanagi> mint kde
[15:17] <izanagi> but on netbook i can turn off this icon
[15:17] <izanagi> cant*
[15:17] <BluesKaj> right , and it's not kubuntu
[15:18] <izanagi> when i add taskmanager only with icons, there is still plasma icon
[15:18] <BluesKaj> izanagi, what happens when you just click on it ?
[15:19] <izanagi> BluesKaj: shows the desktop
[15:20] <izanagi> i dont understand
[15:20] <BluesKaj> never seen that action without the desktop icon , which is removeable
[15:21] <tgary> izanagi: And whats in the right click menu, when you click the program left to Kadu? (The Znajdz...)
[15:22] <izanagi> tgary: same as for other programs: min, max, close  etc
[15:22] <tgary> izanagi: And if you press close? : )ű
[15:23] <izanagi> tgary: nothing happens
[15:23] <BluesKaj> then you may have the netbook setting enabled in systemsettings >workspace behaviour>workspace
[15:24] <izanagi> BluesKaj: well, this is a netbook
[15:25] <BluesKaj> heh , now he tells us :)
[15:25] <izanagi> BluesKaj: turn this off?
[15:26] <BluesKaj> dunno , I don't have a netbook , so I can't advise you
[15:26] <tgary> BluesKaj:
[15:27] <tgary> BluesKaj: if you search this program, it seems that it is a netbook-specific thing: BluesKaj:
[15:27] <tgary> BluesKaj: http://www.dobreprogramy.pl/lucas__/Tajniki-KDE-Pulpit,29429.html
[15:27] <BluesKaj> tgary, exactly
[15:28] <BluesKaj> my poiint is i wouldn't have bothered sinc e i don't know anything about netbopok settings , trg
[15:28] <BluesKaj> tgary,^
[15:30] <izanagi> when i change to desktop computer, thing is off, but panel is too big
[15:31] <izanagi> oh, i can resize it.
[15:31] <tgary> izanagi: I also didn't see this interface before.. But I think, in the desktop view you can see this yellow thing at the right. On your screenshot it wasn't there, but you saw this as an app.
[15:32] <izanagi> true
[15:33] <izanagi> maybe i will stick to that, looks better
[15:33] <izanagi> i will test it if all windows are not too big etc
[15:33] <BluesKaj> no yelloe cashew to open the panel toolbox on netbooks I guess
[15:34] <ScottyK> I'm trying to send the output of a command into pastebin, but I get the following error "you are trying to send an empty document, exiting". the command I'm entering is sudo dpkg --configure -a |  pastebinit
[15:34] <tgary> izanagi: in normal systems (see page that I linked before) this yellow thing is always there, and can not be removed.
[15:35] <izanagi> tgary: this yellow thing is better than whole rectangle
[15:35] <tgary> izanagi: worst case you can log off from kde, login to a shell, mv ~/.kde ~/.kde.old, and relogin. This case you start with a new kde profile, losing the old settings (that are probably messed up somehow).
[15:35] <BluesKaj> ScottyK, there may be no output from the dpkg command
[15:36] <ScottyK> Ok. How do I copy of the output of the error that dpkg generates into something you all can see?
[15:36] <izanagi> tgary: BluesKaj: thanks for help
[15:37] <Graf_Westerholt> ScottyK, if there is error output you maby cannot pipe it. ;) Just copy and paste.  ;)
[15:38] <ScottyK> Graf - ok. From the command line, what would I type to copy that into a .txt so then it can be uploaded to pastebin? It's too large to post here
[15:38] <BluesKaj> copy it to pastebin.org , ScottyK , it might be the quickest method
[15:39] <Graf_Westerholt> ScottyK, is it only command line? No KDE?
[15:39] <ScottyK> it works! Earlier pastebin.org wasn't working for me, now it came up. Excellent!
[15:39] <Graf_Westerholt> ScottyK, you can copy in a terminal inside KDE as usual.
[15:40] <Graf_Westerholt> I do not know how to pipe error output, but there is a way. Error output is different from normal output.
[15:41] <tgary> ubottu: thanks the tip. It removed my half system, then reinstalled a ton of packages. We will see, if it works or not. Thanks the help!
[15:41] <ScottyK> OK, got it. here's what I get when I try to update packages. This happened last night during  a routing upgrade, and we had a power burp. http://pastebin.com/srqwGhGV
[15:42] <Graf_Westerholt> ScottyK, it says you need an USV.
[15:43] <ScottyK> Grag - USV?
[15:43] <Graf_Westerholt> WTF? "We have temporarily blocked you from accessing our website because we have detected that you are browsing the site a little fast. The block usually lasts about 1 hour. Next time, please go easy on us."
[15:43] <Graf_Westerholt> Are they crazy?
[15:44] <BluesKaj> ScottyK, you oviously tried reinstalling libqt4-network , correct?
[15:44] <ScottyK> BluesKaj - yes, it said I had the most current version
[15:45] <BluesKaj> ScottyK, best to purge it and reinstall
[15:45] <Graf_Westerholt> ScottyK, sorry, UPS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply
[15:45] <ScottyK> the command would be "sudo apt-get remove libqt4-netowrk", correct?
[15:46] <ScottyK> Graf- LOL
[15:46] <BluesKaj> purge instead of remove
[15:46] <Graf_Westerholt> ScottyK ;)
[15:48] <ScottyK> Just curious, what's the difference between purge and remove?
[15:49] <BluesKaj> !purge
[15:50] <BluesKaj> remove  still leaves the config files behind
[15:50] <BluesKaj> ScottyK, , something we need to avoid here
[15:51] <ScottyK> purge in progress, 490 packages will be removed. yikes!
[15:51] <Graf_Westerholt> ScottyK, do you have backup of your files? ;)
[15:51] <jdrab> what are you doing ScottyK?  I think I just hosed my system :(
[15:54] <BluesKaj> may be not because it removes config fileof packages you've already removed
[15:56] <BluesKaj> ScottyK, run , sudo apt-get update:sudo apt-getdist-upgrade , after it's finished
[15:56] <BluesKaj> correction , sudo apt-get update:sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[15:57] <ScottyK> BluesKaj - Roger that
[15:58] <BluesKaj> sorry about that dangerous factoid command ScottyK , I never thought I'd see something like that from prompting the purge command
[16:09] <ScottyK> OK, down to one error, "libqt4-xml:amd64" package is in a very bad inconsistent state. When I try to remove it, it flashes the preceding error
[16:11] <BluesKaj> remove won't work , use the purge command
[16:14] <ScottyK> purge still displays the same error
[16:15] <Roey> BluesKaj:  hi
[16:15] <Roey> I actually don't have an issue today, just saying hello
[16:18] <BluesKaj> ScottyK, you may have to drop to a TTY to get the purge to work , or try the recovery kernel first
[16:18] <ScottyK> BluesKaj - Roger that
[16:43] <BluesKaj> gotta go , good luck ScottyK , hope it works out for you.
[16:45] <ScottyK> BluesKaj - Thanks! Gonna reboot in a while and try out that command
[17:06] <izanagi> enabling openGL 3.1 in desktop effect will do any good?
[17:32] <rohan> yofel: awesome, thanks!
[17:48] <rbetzen> /bye
[18:16] <rohan> yofel: are you sure? the metapackage still depends on pm-utils, and there is no mention of systemd
[18:16] <rohan> yofel: http://packages.ubuntu.com/saucy/kubuntu-desktop
[18:18] <yofel> that should probably be dropped (not sure if it's needed somewhere else). kde 4.11 suspends either by directly using logind (there was an issue with that), or by using upower (which uses logind if it's there otherwise falls back to pm-utils)
[18:18] <yofel> that's the full situation
[18:26] <Monsieur-B> hi all
[19:32] <MichaelP> How do i get ati catalyst 13.8 or 13.10 ?
[19:34] <MichaelP> never mind edgers xorg added it in jokey
[19:37] <lars_____> I need some help backing up my hard drive
[19:38] <lars_____> Can you help me resolve my problem with symbolic links?
[19:38] <lars_____> Please send me a link for posting screen shots
[19:49] <lars_____> How do you post a screen shot?
[19:54] <Unit193> !screenshot | Leon671
[19:54] <lars_____> thanks
[20:16] <lars_____> How do you ....Run Tools > Synchronize Files in Kubuntu 12.04?
[20:24] <rohan> yofel: thanks. so something else might pull in systemd-logind as a dependency?
[20:25] <yofel> rohan: udev, upower, network-manager and a few other things depend on systemd-services (which contains logind)
[20:26] <rohan> yofel: great, so pm-utils is there only as a fallback, right?
[20:26] <yofel> right
[20:26] <rohan> thanks for clarifying yofel, much appreciated
[20:33] <valorie> BluesKaj: I've reported that purge factoid to #ubuntu-ops
[20:33] <valorie> they will try to come up with something better
[20:33] <valorie> if you have a specific suggestion, please join and tell 'em
[20:33] <valorie> :-)
[21:12] <lars_____> Blues, are you here?
[21:12] <lars_____> I was trying to backup my hard drive when I ran into a problem
[21:13] <lars_____> Can smn help me?
[21:14] <lars_____> I tried to backup my root directory using K3B an image burner
[21:15] <lars_____> BluesKaj, I tried to backup my root directory using K3B an image burner
[21:16] <lars_____> But I ran into a problem with the symbolic links
[21:17] <lars_____> Is there anyone in this room?
[21:18] <lars_____> Is anyone here familiar with K3B, itś a CD Creator?
[21:20] <lars_____> BluesKaj?
[21:23] <lars_____> No one is familiar with K3B?  Itś a program that creates CDs and DVDs for Kubuntu
[21:26] <IdleOne> lars_____: ask your real question, you know the one you actually need help with
[21:29] <MichaelP> kubuntu 13.04 not detecting monitors right.. if i set my hdmi to 1920x1080 it does the same with my laptop display.. and it's only 1366x768
[22:09] <abhineet> have you been using usb-modems on unity?
[22:09] <abhineet> networl manager just crashes in 13.04!
[22:10] <abhineet> I have to kill -9 -1 and then login back again!
[22:21] <lars_____> How do I make Mozilla Firefox my default browser instead of Rekonq?
[22:24] <abhineet> open mozilla > go to options/preferences > general tab > click 'make mozilla my default browser'
[22:27] <lars_____> thanks
[22:28] <ScottyK> I have a new hard drive, and want to install Kubuntu, but also mint. Kubutu will be my "primary" OS, with Mint to play around on. I want to be able to access docs, pics, music, etc from both distros.
[22:29] <ScottyK> Should I make a /home, then let both distros write to it?
[22:32] <ScottyK> Or I could let the Kubuntu partition have everything, then create sim links from Mint to the kubuntu stuff?
[22:33] <abhineet> write Kubuntu on the HDD first > during installation let the grub write on /dev/sda
[22:33] <lars_____> I cannot post any files anywhere on my desktop.  How do I change or fix my desktop?
[22:33] <lars_____> Iḿ using Kubuntu 12.04
[22:34] <abhineet> after installation of kubuntu, set some 30 GB out as say /dev/sda1 or sda2 or whatever
[22:34] <abhineet> during installation of mint, write grub on /dev/sda1 or sda2
[22:35] <abhineet> both distributions will be able to detect each other's /home
[22:35] <abhineet> they will see the partitions separately which you can mount by clicking them
[22:36] <abhineet> cannot post?
[22:44] <izanagi> maybe past
[22:54] <lars_____> It works now
[22:54] <lars_____> f10 helped me fix the View Folder
[22:54] <abhineet> great!
[22:55] <lars_____> Hey, can you give me the link for posting screenshots: imagebin?
[22:59] <lars_____> I found it....
[22:59] <lars_____> http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add


[13:42] <GunnarHj> arges, RAOF: I would need help by somebody in the SRU team to approve ubuntu-docs in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+queue?queue_state=1
[13:42] <GunnarHj> It's a pure translation update. An update of the Utopic language packs will take place in a few days, and the package must have been built before then.
[14:19] <arges> GunnarHj: i'll take a look
[14:29] <GunnarHj> arges: Thanks. :)
[22:39] <tumbleweed> ^ previous SRU (#1368418) FTBFS on ppc in -proposed. This fixes it.
[22:46] <infinity> tumbleweed: So, basically, that's -fPIC on everything but i386?
[22:47] <infinity> tumbleweed: Can you reupload with a -v including the previous version?
[22:53] <tumbleweed> infinity: can do
[22:55] <tumbleweed> infinity: https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/src/8471ffc38d46b9fa1da64943e9d077631502d9bc/rpython/translator/platform/__init__.py?at=default#cl-252 - that's the current logic
[22:56] <infinity> tumbleweed: I got that from the diff context, yeah.
[22:57] <infinity> tumbleweed: And (at least in Ubuntu), the only arch that doesn't match that is i386.
[22:57] <infinity> tumbleweed: Which could also build with -fPIC.
[22:57] <tumbleweed> right
[22:57] <infinity> tumbleweed: So, the whole thing is a bit curious. :)
[22:57] <tumbleweed> the pypy people love to squeeze every bit of performance they can, out
[22:57] <infinity> tumbleweed: Anyhow, food for thought, not something to change in an SRU if you're sure the current method works.
[22:58] <tumbleweed> yeah, it works
[22:58] <infinity> tumbleweed: Ahh, they're intentionally doing it because they know i386 addressing is gimpy enough to get away with it?
[22:58] <tumbleweed> yes
[22:58] <infinity> tumbleweed: Fair enough.


[16:27] <MarkDude> Last chance on free baseball tix
[16:27] <MarkDude> 12:35 start
[16:27]  * MarkDude can leave tix at willcall
[16:27] <MarkDude> no need to even look at me :D


[01:13] <markomontana> alled flstudio?
[03:29] <Guest36333> Hello.  Newb question about writing files to blank optical media.
[03:30] <Guest36333> I have a list of files in the window labeled "CD/DVD Creator"   How do I proceed with burning them?
[03:40] <Guest36333> I don't see a "write" button anywhere described in the help text.
[04:03] <dewey_> cant remember password to authenicate
[05:59] <rh10> guys, is it real to put windows button (minimize, maximize, close) to top of the screen? for more handy press
[06:00] <rh10> not to aim accurately шт игеещт
[06:00] <rh10> in button (sorry)
[06:12] <rh10> and if there a way to switch programs in alt+tab using mouse?
[09:15] <mate|87831> czy ten komunikator da sieprzestawic aby byl po polskiemu...
[09:57] <looksao_> bonjour, je voudrais savoir si qq un utilise cyanogen sur tablette et rencontre des difficultes ? merci
[09:57] <alkisg> !fr
[10:12] <looksao> je tape ca ou svp ?
[10:18] <alkisg> looksao, I don't speak French. Only Greek and English.
[11:45] <mate|37430> Is there a keyboard shortcut to switch between windows of the current application?
[11:46] <alkisg> mate|37430: alt+`
[11:47] <mate|37430> weird. that doesn't seem to work.
[11:51] <alkisg> mate|37430: do you see those windows in alt+tab list?
[11:54] <mate|37430> yes
[11:55] <mate|37430> alt+` is completely unresponsive tho
[11:56] <mate|37430> i'm trying on a liveCD if that make any difference
[11:59] <alkisg> mate|37430: which application is this?
[11:59] <alkisg> Also, which ubuntu-mate live cd version?
[12:00] <mate|37430> i've tried it in eclipse and firefox
[12:00] <mate|37430> neither works
[12:00] <alkisg> mate|37430: and which ubuntu mate version is that?
[12:01] <mate|37430> ubuntu mate 17.10 live cd
[12:01] <alkisg> With firefox, I assume that you moved a tab into a separate window, correct?
[12:01] <alkisg> Are you running compiz, or metacity? try ps aux | grep metacity
[12:01] <mate|37430> yes
[12:02] <mate|37430> ubuntu-+ 16883  0.0  0.0  21452  1100 pts/0    S+   12:01   0:00 grep --color=auto metacity
[12:02] <alkisg> and this? ps aux | grep compiz
[12:02] <mate|37430> ubuntu-+ 16894  0.0  0.0  21452   992 pts/0    S+   12:02   0:00 grep --color=auto compiz
[12:02] <alkisg> and this? ps aux | grep marco
[12:03] <mate|37430> ubuntu-+ 16909  0.0  0.0  21452  1100 pts/0    S+   12:03   0:00 grep --color=auto marco
[12:03] <alkisg> mate|37430: this doesn't make a lot of sense, not running any window manager in mate...
[12:04] <alkisg> Do you mind if you upload your whole process list? ps aux | nc termbin.com 9999
[12:06] <alkisg> mate|37430: ubuntu-+  5814  3.0  0.6<PHONE_NUMBER>6 ?        Sl   10:40   2:31 compiz --replace ccp
[12:06] <alkisg> So you are running compiz there
[12:06] <alkisg> Maybe you only pasted the first line of the result here and you didn't include that one
[12:06] <alkisg> mate|37430: try this: marco --replace
[12:06] <alkisg> This will enable marco as the window manager. Then try Alt+` again
[12:06] <alkisg> If it works... that means it only works with marco
[12:07] <mate|37430> yep thats it
[12:07] <mate|37430> is marco the software compositor?
[12:08] <alkisg> marco and compiz are window managers. Both support composition.
[12:09] <alkisg> Maybe compiz has another key; maybe not; i'm not using it
[12:12] <mate|37430> Ah. well thanks for your help!
[12:12] <mate|37430> Much appreciated.
[13:07] <bulkior> hello, has anyone had problems in ubuntu 16.04 with the sound? "dummy output" is shown and no hardware detected in lspci.
[13:09] <bulkior> hello, has anyone had problems in ubuntu 16.04 with the sound? "dummy output" is shown and no hardware detected in lspci.
[13:11] <diogenes_> bulkior, aplay -l
[18:15] <ubuntu-mate> so does anyone know how to fix the mouse pad not working on lenovo ideapad 320
[18:16] <nemo> oooh this sounds familiar
[18:18] <ubuntu-mate> it gets frustrating, i keep trying with different versions of linux
[18:19] <ubuntu-mate> i really like matte and i might as well learn
[18:20] <nemo> ubuntu-mate: no, it's just that I bought a lenovo with exact same issue
[18:20] <nemo> ubuntu-mate: (also wifi but I think there's a fix for that)
[18:21] <diogenes_> omg, people, why do you buy lenovo and you just expect linux to run on it?
[18:21] <diogenes_> you have to gather information about the most linux compatible brands
[18:21] <nemo> diogenes_: I'd had pretty darn good luck w/ laptops lately.
[18:21] <nemo> diogenes_: also. ubuntu's laptop compatibility stuff is pretty dubious
[18:22] <ubuntu-mate> well i want to understand coding so its great to learn
[18:22] <diogenes_> lenovo is the least ever choice to run linux
[18:22] <diogenes_> it's just horrible
[18:22] <ubuntu-mate> i dont need you to be messed up
[18:22] <ubuntu-mate> some help website
[18:23] <ubuntu-mate> any help on touchpad issues?
[18:24] <nemo> ubuntu-mate: I'd collected some notes on things that could address it for my particular model
[18:24] <diogenes_> ubuntu-mate, If I were you I'd return and ask for refund.
[18:24] <nemo> ubuntu-mate: but I'd put it off since main thing I wanted to do was upgrade kernel
[18:24] <nemo> I'm waiting for devuan ascii to be released
[18:25] <nemo> diogenes_: https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201606-22367/  checkout this one
[18:25] <nemo> "hibernate is not working on system"
[18:25] <nemo> really should say "if you close your laptop lid or accidentally click suspend in default ubuntu desktop your system will crash and your HD will be corrupted"
[18:25] <nemo> at least, in ubuntu 16.04+  - he finally installed 14.04 which worked perfectly
[18:27] <diogenes_> nemo, shit happens now and then every time, nothing is perfect but none and I stress it out, NONE of the brands has ever had so many issues with linux that lenovo had and still has and will always have because they support windows only and nothing else.
[18:30] <diogenes_> and I'm telling this not because I've read in in the newspaper, I've had tons of different laptops to install linux on and none of them were so much trouble some but lenovo, that's why I don't advice it for people who intend to use linux.
[18:31] <nemo> diogenes_: I was referring to that specifically because the ubuntu certification is no protection
[18:31] <nemo> diogenes_: so "doing research" is not really that sufficient
[18:31] <nemo> anyway. in this particular case it is a synaptic touchpad that I just need to get working, and those have given me trouble under linux since the very first time I bought a laptop with a touchpad
[18:31] <nemo> they all are subtly different
[18:32] <nemo> aaaaand a wireless card that is doing something stupid, but that again has not much to do w/ lenovo
[18:32] <nemo> I know how to fix it, and I just want to see if the fix is already incorporated upstream
[18:32] <nemo> otherwise I'll just patch the kernel module
[18:32] <nemo> 01:00.0 Network controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8821AE 802.11ac PCIe Wireless Network Adapter
[18:32] <nemo> that one...
[18:33] <nemo> realtek is its own nightmare under linux too
[18:33] <nemo> so none of this is much of a shock to me
[18:33] <nemo> diogenes_: oh. I forgot to mention... the UEFI is also running into a bug too, but appears to be fixed upstream and isn't lenovo specific either
[18:33] <nemo> is just that UEFI is also a pile of s***
[18:34] <diogenes_> nemo, I understand, it comes with no warranty of whatsoever and it's good that you know how to fix, patch and so on, but what can a newbie do? if a newbie who wants to try linux will have much more luck with an HP an Asus or Dell than with lenovo
[18:34] <diogenes_> and will definitely have an excellent experience with the system76
[18:35] <nemo> well system76 obv
[18:35] <nemo> just skeptical about the dell
[18:35] <diogenes_> system76 actually even disables the intel management engine
[18:35] <nemo> diogenes_: my point was mostly that my linux laptop exp has been uniformly bad UNLESS that exact model was also shipped in a linux flavour
[18:35] <mate|21003> i am installing mate
[18:36] <nemo> diogenes_: well thankfully disabling it is default most of the time on non-corp installs, although making it completely inactive by selectively wiping it out is relatively rare. maybe they do that?
[18:36] <nemo> diogenes_: which is definitely the route I'd rather go
[18:37] <nemo> diogenes_: I mostly bought this laptop 'cause it was super cheap, and yeh.  If I wanted to be totally safe, I'd probably search for linux laptop, get the exact model and shop around for that (or pay for the preinstall)
[18:37] <nemo> which is probably a good move for noobs
[18:37] <diogenes_> nemo, I'll give you a link where they explain how they do it.
[18:37] <nemo> diogenes_: something I used to do in the past, that Best Buy was remarkably cool with, was bring a ubuntu on a thumb drive to the store 😃
[18:37] <nemo> diogenes_: got some people interesting in linux that way too
[18:39] <diogenes_> nemo, here they explain everything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MujjuTWpQJk&t=2284s
[18:40] <nemo> youtube ☹
[18:40] <nemo> eh. will check that out later
[18:40] <mate|21003> does someone has experience on vmware
[18:41] <nemo> mate|21003: I use vmware-view on ubuntu...
[18:41] <nemo> with a piv card even ☺
[18:41] <mate|21003> want to install vmware player
[18:42] <mate|21003> i am just installing u mate
[18:42] <nemo> unfamiliar w/ player sorry - only ever used VirtualBox for linux personally
[18:43] <nemo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Player  I see this...
[18:43] <nemo> mate|21003: IMO virtualbox does better at linux support
[18:43] <mate|21003> virtualbox was not my favorite, since so many problems with usb, sharing and so on
[18:44] <nemo> mate|21003: did you install the virtualbox extensions? the non-free stuff?
[18:44] <nemo> that's normally required for usb
[18:44] <nemo> otherwise no problems w/ that personally - was even able to do, oh, phone updates with it
[18:44] <mate|21003> yes but installation was not succesful
[18:45] <nemo> mate|21003: did you install as root?
[18:45] <nemo> hmmm you weren't using ubuntu software manager were you?
[18:45] <nemo> it does some stupid things
[18:45] <nemo> how long ago was this anyway?
[18:46] <mate|21003> i was using the software center. had the problem yesterday and today
[18:47] <nemo> mate|21003: yeah. software centre is broken on packages that have software license agreements - at least last time I used it
[18:47] <nemo> broke on MS core fonts. I use synaptic for that
[18:47] <nemo> mate|21003: also I'd recommend using the packaging on their downloads page
[18:47] <mate|21003> ok i will try
[18:47] <mate|21003> thands
[18:47] <mate|21003> thanks
[18:48] <nemo> also
[18:48] <mate|21003> thanks and good by
[18:48] <nemo> …
[18:48] <nemo> mate|21003: not gonna let me finish sentence? ☺
[18:48] <nemo> bah
[18:48] <nemo> apparently not
[18:49] <nemo> if it fails for him again, the other possibility is missing dkms
[18:49] <nemo> which might be an unspecified dependency
[18:49] <nemo> but OH WELL
[19:13] <tueftler_> hi there! i have a problem mounting a disk from a synology raid1 to a ubuntu mate
[19:14] <tueftler_> i'm a linux noob, but hoping you can help me mount that on my PC
[19:34] <nemo> man
[19:34] <nemo> what's w/ all these web gateway folks
[20:14] <greg__> no matter what i do Skype will not install on mate keep getting wrong architecture error
[20:29] <senia> hi
[20:31] <senia> my laptop is running super slow
[20:35] <sixwheeledbeast> You probably have the wrong architecture then.
[20:39] <greg__> i have a 64 bit lenovo desktop computer also running skype ,but not on mate on same computer. is there a bug in mate? thank you.
[20:49] <diogenes_> greg__, why you have to download it?
[20:49] <diogenes_> you can use it as a web app
[20:53] <greg__> when i use it as a web app through outlook it always say it's busy.
[20:53] <diogenes_> greg__, who says about outlook? all you need is chrome or chromium and it will work just great.
[20:57] <mate|73313> Hi All. I can't seem to get the Win+A, Win+S or Win+Shift+S shortcuts working
[20:57] <Akuli> mate|73313, what are those keys supposed to do?
[20:58] <greg__> ok mate thank you for you help ,but iam still perplexed why it runs on ubuntu 16.04 but not mate.
[20:59] <mate|73313> I've enable compiz, and as per the keyboard shortcuts in the welcome guide, the Win+A shows a zoom out of all workspaces
[20:59] <diogenes_> greg__, you could try snap install skype
[20:59] <Akuli> mate|73313, are you sure that compiz is actually running? open a terminal and run   compiz --replace
[20:59] <mate|73313> Win + S shows all windows on current workspace, like expose on mac
[21:01] <mate|73313> Yes, I can do the other shortcuts such as ctrl alt d to show desktop
[21:01] <greg__> ok thank you.
[21:15] <mate|56339> hello I recently installed ubunto on my Acer s7 392. However I am a bit of a noob with linux. Before my ssd had 2 disks with raid0 configuration.
[21:15] <mate|56339> As of now I have both disks separate where one disk has linux installed and the other is empty. Will I face problems in the future???
[21:18] <mate|56339> hello I recently installed ubunto on my Acer s7 392. However I am a bit of a noob with linux. Before my ssd had 2 disks with raid0 configuration.
[21:18] <mate|56339> As of now I have both disks separate where one disk has linux installed and the other is empty. Will I face problems in the future???
[21:18] <mate|56339> Anyone?
[21:19] <Akuli> what kind of problems do you expect?
[21:19] <sambo> probably not
[21:20] <mate|56339> I am expecting a boot problem. Ubuntu is booting up wierd where I have a purple screen then a white flash and eventually ubuntu boots up normally.
[21:21] <Akuli> it won't magically stop working by itself
[21:22] <mate|56339> I feel as if Somehow ubuntu wasn't installed correctly because previously I tried installing kali distro before and did all sorts of shenanigans
[21:22] <Akuli> do you want us to check how your hard drive stuff looks? run on terminal:  lsblk | nc termbin.com 9999
[21:23] <Akuli> it gives you a link, copy/paste it here
[21:23] <mate|56339> yes please
[21:24] <sambo> what is a crimson tide
[21:25] <sambo> google search crimson tide4
[21:26] <Akuli> looks ok to me
[21:26] <mate|56339> http://termbin.com/xt70
[21:27] <Akuli> if you run out of space you can always move stuff, that shouldn't be a problem
[21:27] <Akuli> i wouldn't be too worried about starting up weird as long as it's consistent
[21:28] <mate|56339> I also want to move my /home directory to the other 128 GB disk. Is that posibble??
[21:29] <Akuli> yes, i don't remember how but you can do that without reinstalling
[21:29] <Akuli> i believe you're supposed to edit /etc/fstab and reboot
[21:29] <Akuli> but ask for someone else to give better advice :) i need to go now
[21:29] <mate|56339> It's 1 SSD but shows 2 separate disks
[21:30] <mate|56339> alright thank you
[21:30] <mate|56339> take care


[06:38] <DanChapman> morning all
[06:42] <forestpiskie> morning DanChapman
[06:42] <elfy> morning DanChapman
[07:00] <DanChapman> hey elfy :-) So you going to have a nice relaxed weekend, with release now passed?
[07:00] <elfy> yep
[07:01] <elfy> doing as little as I can get away with :)
[07:01] <elfy> next week - I need to start working out if this autopilot stuff is ever going to be of use to us
[07:02] <elfy> so expect a ping :p
[07:04] <DanChapman> elfy, you can ping anytime. I'm planning to sort my personal wiki page out this weekend and apply for membership. Would appear i need testimonials.......
[07:05]  * DanChapman coughs
[07:05] <DanChapman> ;-P
[07:05] <elfy> don't cough - I've been coughing all week - got a Gold Medal for England in the Coughing Games :)
[07:06] <elfy> let me know when you've done the wiki and I'll be glad to stop the testimonial bit being empty :)
[07:07] <DanChapman> :-D thanks elfy