[10:01] <LaserJock> meeting?
[10:02] <terrex> it should be already started :s
[10:02] <LaserJock> ok, who all is here for the Doc Team meeting?
[10:04] <manicka> I'm here
[10:05] <LaserJock> hmm, doesn't look promising
[10:05] <manicka> no
[10:06] <robotgeek> i'm here too
[10:10] <LaserJock> hmm, well if naaman isn't here...
[10:10] <manicka> there's not much to talk about...
[10:14] <LaserJock> hmm, well does anybody have suggestions for the next meeting?
[10:16] <bustacap> hello all, is the doc meeting on now?
[10:16] <manicka> hi
[10:16] <bustacap> oh poo where is mdke??
[10:16] <robotgeek> bustacap: naaman isn't here
[10:16] <manicka> lol
[10:16] <bustacap> haha naaman is bustacap :D
[10:17] <robotgeek> bustacap: oh, my bad. lol
[10:17] <bustacap> hehe
[10:17] <LaserJock> hmm, ok so not many people here then
[10:18] <bustacap> I just woke up underneath my coffee table in the lounge room (did not know how I got there) at 7am (2100 UTC) thinking "oh shit, it's the Doc Team meeting"
[10:18] <jjesse> not around for much longer
[10:18] <bustacap> well, if there isn't any senior members in attendance - I will convene it...
[10:19] <bustacap> I am still in my work clothes from yesterday (I had a decent drinking session straight after work ;) )
[10:20] <bustacap> OK onto the meeting..
[10:20] <LaserJock> well, I think that we might want to try a bit harder to get some agenda items for next time
[10:20] <bustacap> we will just put issues to the next meeting without the people here to represent them
[10:20] <bustacap> but onto the first one..
[10:21] <bustacap> using common files in the DocBook documents
[10:21] <bustacap> does anyone else (other than mdke) have something to bring up about this..
[10:21] <LaserJock> I think a far amount of docs are using the common preface
[10:22] <bustacap> I think this issue has been brought up before at a previous meeting..
[10:22] <robotgeek> the Kubuntu docs use the common kde entities mostly
[10:22] <manicka> there's a fair maount on commonality between the ubuntu and kubuntu dg's
[10:22] <bustacap> is this the same as the ubuntu .xml files?
[10:23] <robotgeek> manicka: hmm, i havent seen many common ones, to be honest
[10:23] <bustacap> manicka, I think mdke is after is a common look and feel to all of the ubuntu documentation..
[10:23] <manicka> ah, ok
[10:25] <robotgeek> well, i don't know if we can discuss this without mdke being here
[10:25] <bustacap> well to add my two cents - perhaps the preface might be a little different in the guides
[10:26] <bustacap> but - the getting-help.xml should be exactly the same
[10:26] <bustacap> it should point to the same web-help resources..
[10:26] <LaserJock> what mdke and I were thinking about is about having a common preface
[10:26] <LaserJock> and perhaps other common elements
[10:26] <robotgeek> bustacap: for examsple the, mailing lists are different
[10:26] <bustacap> for the getting help??
[10:27] <robotgeek> bustacap: yes, ubuntu-users and kubuntu-users
[10:27] <bustacap> well I think that the getting-help should encompass all versions of ubuntu
[10:27] <jjesse> and the different channels
[10:27] <bustacap> it should say in the USG - for help with Ubuntu -> go here; for help with Kubuntu -> go here..
[10:28] <jjesse> i don't think there is enough commonality to get common files
[10:28] <robotgeek> jjesse: +1
[10:28] <bustacap> it is documented in the USG to convert over to Kubuntu in the USG
[10:28] <jjesse> USG == Ubuntu Server Guide?
[10:28] <robotgeek> bustacap: then the KDG takes over :)
[10:28] <bustacap> so there should be help resources on where to go as well..
[10:29] <bustacap> ok - fair call..
[10:29] <robotgeek> bustacap: it's Ubuntu Desktop Guide, the "starter" term is removed now
[10:29] <bustacap> ooh sorry ;)
[10:29] <bustacap> I am out of the loop :)
[10:29] <jjesse> to make a distinction between server guide nad desktop guide
[10:29] <bustacap> yeah..
[10:29] <robotgeek> bustacap: i was too, until yesterday :)
[10:30] <LaserJock> ok, but anyway I think the goal was to think about commonality so we can just change things once
[10:30] <robotgeek> LaserJock: i believe the global entities are in one file
[10:31] <LaserJock> right, but we talked about a common preface for example
[10:31] <bustacap> oh, but it is a fair call to say that it is not worth doing..
[10:31] <bustacap> it is a good idea in principle, but I say not to worry about it..
[10:31] <bustacap> moving on - next item..
[10:31] <LaserJock> but I think that the item is already implemented quite a bit so it might not be worth discussing in length
[10:32] <robotgeek> LaserJock: yeah, i guess that is the way it is
[10:32] <robotgeek> i copied KDG's preface from UDG
[10:32] <bustacap> WikiCleanupProposal
[10:32] <bustacap> manicka are you in on this?
[10:32] <jjesse> i would argue for common files where they make sense... for example on the kubuntu side all the docs should use the same preface if they have a preface
[10:32] <LaserJock> jjesse: exactly
[10:33] <bustacap> for sure jjesse
[10:33] <LaserJock> jjesse: that was the point
[10:33] <jjesse> sorry working so only paying half attention
[10:33] <manicka> I'm prepared to help where i can
[10:33] <bustacap> sure..
[10:33] <robotgeek> jjesse: hmm, it's pretty easy to implement, i guess
[10:33] <bustacap> it should already be implemented for same distro docs..
[10:34] <LaserJock> bustacap: I don't know that it is exactly though
[10:34] <bustacap> LaserJock, I don't think it would be too much effort to correct
[10:35] <robotgeek> bustacap: it's just changing an entity for me, i'm sure it's the same for the rest too
[10:35] <LaserJock> right, but people need to be aware of it and do it ;-)
[10:35] <bustacap> we can say that the preface.xml and getting-help.xml aren't compatible with each other atm and it isn't a smart move to make them compatible in the future either..
[10:36] <robotgeek> bustacap: preface.xml is document neutral, getting-help.xml is not
[10:36] <LaserJock> ?
[10:36] <bustacap> there isn't too much to be gained by making them the same document..
[10:36] <bustacap> well preface.xml could contain more distro-specific information..
[10:36] <robotgeek> it would make sense for a common preface.xml across both ubuntu and kubuntu
[10:37] <bustacap> iirc, preface.xml in the UDG talks about the work put in by the kubuntu team to make an alternative to ubuntu
[10:37] <robotgeek> bustacap: preface just says how the document is formatted and how to interpret it.
[10:37] <LaserJock> the preface contents are just a " these are the conventions, etc. used in the doc" and since those should be consistent...
[10:37] <bustacap> oh ok..
[10:38] <bustacap> well that could be the same then..
[10:38] <robotgeek> and getting help could be common across all ubuntu documents, and all kubuntu docs
[10:38] <LaserJock> it wasn't a huge deal it was just where we can have common items we should try to, so that we have consistency and eliminate redundancy
[10:39] <robotgeek> true, it's only a small change to make, let's make it and keep moving :)
[10:39] <bustacap> well include both Kubuntu and Ubuntu sources of help in both then..
[10:39] <bustacap> yeah..
[10:39] <bustacap> it will also create more awareness of Kubuntu when people are looking for help in the UDG as well..
[10:40] <LaserJock> bustacap: the current common preface is distro neutral
[10:40] <bustacap> ok - well make that common across all distros..
[10:40] <robotgeek> LaserJock: maybe not
[10:41] <robotgeek> i have Konsole instead of gnome-terminal
[10:41] <bustacap> in preface??
[10:41] <LaserJock> you guys, it is fine. I don't know what you guys are looking at but the common preface doesn't have anything distro specific that I know of
[10:41] <robotgeek> To start a Terminal  session, select: Konsole  from the desktop menu system.
[10:41] <robotgeek> maybe i should just rephrase that, lol
[10:41] <bustacap> I wouldn't imagine that would be in preface.xml??
[10:42] <robotgeek> that is in preface
[10:42] <LaserJock> no it isn't
[10:42] <bustacap> why would command-line operations be in a Preface??
[10:42] <LaserJock> robotgeek: look at the Ubuntu Packaging Guide preface
[10:42] <robotgeek> okay, atlease in the kdg preface :) http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/preface.html
[10:43] <LaserJock> robotgeek: that is because it isn't using the common preface!
[10:43] <robotgeek> okay, i think need to change it then
[10:43] <robotgeek> :)
[10:43] <bustacap> well that line could be easily stripped then..
[10:43] <bustacap> it is unnecessary to tell a user how to open a shell from the Conventions section..
[10:43] <LaserJock> arrghhh, guys, there is a common preface.xml that you can be using that is distro neutral
[10:44] <LaserJock> you shouldn't have a preface.xml file in your doc directory
[10:44] <robotgeek> okay, fine. will make the change
[10:45] <bustacap> I think this is issue is now pretty much open-and-shut -> move on to making both files common across all documentation
[10:45] <LaserJock> do you guys see it? in common/C/
[10:45] <robotgeek> LaserJock: i see it, and will make the change now
[10:46] <bustacap> alright - moving on to the next item..
[10:46] <bustacap> WikiCleanupProposal
[10:47] <bustacap> at the moment the WCP has been moving along quite well
[10:48] <bustacap> I might move through a couple of points in it and where it is at..
[10:48] <manicka> feedback on the list has been very productive
[10:48] <bustacap> the Wiki Move..
[10:50] <bustacap> there may need to be a day of the Wiki Team making sure that all of the important docs on the Wiki are categorised in the CategoryDocumentation before the wiki move
[10:50] <bustacap> other than that - I cannot see any problems with the impending wiki move (whenever that happens)
[10:50] <bustacap> any information about the wiki move?
[10:51] <bustacap> there has been a spec put forward about it..
[10:52] <manicka> I believe it was discussed at the last cc, but mdke wasn't there to clarify the issues
[10:52] <bustacap> yeah, that's why he is going down the spec route rather than discussing it at CC meetings..
[10:52] <manicka> discussion went round in circles a bit
[10:52] <bustacap> it might even be in Launchpad
[10:53] <bustacap> ok, moving onto Restructuring of the Wiki
[10:53] <bustacap> bit of a shame mdke isn't here
[10:53] <bustacap> but manicka you seem to be happy with mdke's proposal for the changes to UserDocumentation??
[10:54] <manicka> I like the concise nature of his suggestions
[10:54] <bustacap> yeah, it is a good cleanup
[10:54] <manicka> the frontpage needs to be as simple as possible
[10:55] <bustacap> I can see where he is coming from with his objections to my "Misc" series of pages
[10:55] <manicka> yes
[10:55] <bustacap> albeit a temporary solution to the problems whilst UserDocBeta was being built
[10:56] <manicka> the problem I see is making it happen, there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in the wiki
[10:56] <bustacap> yeah, I am getting that feeling as well
[10:57] <bustacap> I find that hard to understand given the usefulness of the Wiki
[10:57] <manicka> such a large restructure needs a concerted effort
[10:57] <robotgeek> true
[10:57] <manicka> a few people can't pull it off on their own
[10:58] <bustacap> from a sysadmin perspective - we are in the "google" age of looking for assistance with sysadmin tasks - the Ubuntu Wiki fits right in with looking for doco on the net
[10:58] <manicka> agreed
[10:58] <bustacap> for sure manicka, but I think a quick restructure and then some slow and steady work by a few can improve it greatly
[10:59] <manicka> yes
[10:59] <bustacap> if there isn't enough support by the general Doc-Team, well yourself and I can take it slowly as long as it is supported (in ideals) by the Doc-Team
[11:00] <bustacap> I don't want to be working on a project that the majority of the Doc-Team turn there noses up at..
[11:00] <manicka> yes, agreed
[11:00] <bustacap> that's why I have been trying to engage some dialog about the issue..
[11:00] <manicka> so our first gioal must be approval of the idea
[11:00] <manicka> the beta I mean
[11:00] <bustacap> robotgeek, look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiCleanupProposal for a good introduction to the matter
[11:00] <robotgeek> bustacap: reading it now
[11:01] <bustacap> well I think that the beta may be dead given that mdke has gone and suggested his model
[11:01] <bustacap> the whole subindexing - however - is not dead
[11:01] <manicka> I was thinking of the long term model
[11:02] <bustacap> yeah, see my initial opposition to mdke's model was that if we went to his model - we could not go back to the beta model if everything was ready in the background..
[11:03] <manicka> there's no point putting a lot of effort into a background model if it won't fly in the long run
[11:03] <bustacap> with his model - a new beta doesn't need to be drafted
[11:04] <bustacap> I think the main thing that has come out of my proposals is that there is a need for some general sub-index pages across all subject areas
[11:05] <bustacap> and whatever the main page model is - the sub-indexes will greatly help people find doco quicker and give them a really good understanding of what Ubuntu has to offer
[11:05] <robotgeek> bustacap: +1
[11:05] <bustacap> there needs to be more higher-level simple doco about Ubuntu and the apps it has
[11:05] <manicka> yes and this would assist with the other goal of attracting forum people to contribute
[11:06] <bustacap> absolutely
[11:06] <robotgeek> bustacap: for example like the KQuickguide?
[11:06] <manicka> I'd just like to see something happen
[11:06] <bustacap> manicka, once a conclusion has been reached about the main page model - I will be able to start drafting a recruitment drive for people from the forums
[11:07] <bustacap> manicka, well once I have a chat with mdke - I will continue driving the issue
[11:07] <manicka> ok
[11:08] <bustacap> the problem was that I was not getting any feedback from the Doc-Team about the work and like have said - it seems that nobody cares about cleaning up the wiki - or like I said - nobody is saying anything because that don't agree about what I have proposed
[11:08] <manicka> it's difficult to know either way
[11:08] <robotgeek> bustacap: from me, i just have been too busy with other stuff
[11:09] <manicka> I look at it this way. If you want help with the task I'll pitch in, but I'm really tired of all the background stuff
[11:09] <manicka> the udsf issues have worn me out somewhat
[11:11] <bustacap> robotgeek, it is just not about a short guide - it's about opening people's minds up to all of the possiblities of Ubuntu apps when they are searching for a specific issue - if somebody is searching for playing MP3s - the may browse on of the sub-index pages (MultimediaApplications is a good example) and discover all of the different MP3 players along with the video players etc... basically look for help in one subject area and be enli
[11:11] <bustacap> ghtened in so many more :)
[11:11] <bustacap> manicka, that is a fair call, I don't think we need to visit there..
[11:11] <manicka> no, agreed
[11:12] <robotgeek> bustacap: hmm, i like idea of subpages, Todd has been working on WifiDocs  converted the wireless pages that ways
[11:12] <bustacap> and as far as the whole joint meeting went - I think there is a really positive attitude from the Ubuntu Forums to wholly support the Wiki once there is a suitable framework there..
[11:13] <bustacap> yeah, I have liked Todd's work on getting something up and going..
[11:13] <manicka> yes, a suitable framework is the key...
[11:13] <bustacap> basically manicka, we need at least another 2-3 people involved in the project with the same committment as you and I to really get this off the ground..
[11:14] <bustacap> and as far as I look at the whole doc situation - I think the UDG and KDG are in there final stages of being closed off for Dapper and the members of the Doc-Team should have some time to contribute to fixing up the Wiki
[11:14] <manicka> hmm, that may be difficult. Most of the good people on the forums are working on 'other' projects
[11:15] <manicka> but you never know
[11:15] <bustacap> yeah, I know that - but I am after 2-3 extras from the Doc-Team initially
[11:15] <robotgeek> i may have time, but i can't commit right now
[11:15] <manicka> so we may see some activity in a few weeks
[11:15] <robotgeek> commit time, i mean
[11:16] <robotgeek> btw, i have some input to provide about our first agenda item
[11:16] <bustacap> robotgeek, but by commit - I don't mean spending 2 hours every night on it - I just mean that you agree with the proposals put forward and I include you in any high level emails/discussions that may arise over the project..
[11:17] <bustacap> robotgeek, I might wrap up the current agenda item anyway and close off the meeting
[11:17] <robotgeek> bustacap: i'll go thru the whole issue over the weekend and get in touch with you?
[11:17] <bustacap> sure, drop me an email (check private message)
[11:18] <bustacap> basically, we could do with an extra 2-3 people committed to this project but either way - mdke's proposal looks good and I will slowly change the beta to suit
[11:19] <manicka> ok
[11:19] <bustacap> also, I will have a chat with mdke about his proposal and move it across to UserDocumentationDraft
[11:19] <manicka> great
[11:19] <bustacap> once approved at UserDocumentationDraft - it will replace the current UserDocumentation
[11:20] <bustacap> and! I will then attempt to take over the WikiTeam docs as far as cleanup proposals, todo pages, etc to get the ball rolling..
[11:21] <manicka> sounds like a plan
[11:21] <bustacap> excellent
[11:21] <robotgeek> :)
[11:21] <bustacap> well I think that concludes today's meeting..
[11:21] <robotgeek> holdon
[11:22] <bustacap> sorry robotgeek, bring up your issue, I am getting a drink of water and heading to bed - big night last night
[11:22] <robotgeek> LaserJock: the preface.xml in KDG doesn't have all xml headers . Riddell removed them for something related to xincludes
[11:23] <bustacap> night/morning all..
[11:23] <robotgeek> bustacap: sure, later
[11:23] <robotgeek> anyways, i could discuss this later. only to tell that i won't be making a change right now
[11:23] <robotgeek> alrite, later all


[01:49] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[07:48] <marcoagpinto> Hello!
[07:59] <ducasse> good morning
[11:29] <Chunkyz> lol
[11:30]  * Chunkyz looks around and goes back to #ubuntu


[06:36] <flocculant> bluesabre: that's a very nice e-mail, where is this relaxed chat though ;)
[09:02] <bluesabre> flocculant: on the "Ubuntu on Air" channel... I don't have a link to the chat until it's set up
[09:02] <bluesabre> ... will you be joining us?
[09:21] <knome> yes please
[09:21] <knome> ;)
[11:05] <flocculant> bluesabre: ummm
[11:05] <flocculant> I'm travelling to Greenland
[11:06] <flocculant> or I've got a bone in my leg
[11:06] <flocculant> or webcam suddenly broken
[11:06] <flocculant> take your pick :p
[11:07] <flocculant> definitely a Xubuntu Council thing - no-one else has a clue where we are going ;)
[11:12] <Unit193> flocculant: Canada.
[11:16] <flocculant> on serious note - no I won't be unless I can irc
[11:22] <knome> what? :D
[11:22] <knome> hah.
[11:23] <knome> ehhhhh
[11:23] <knome> i need a printer
[11:28] <flocculant> and tbh hard to talk about testing - what do we say 'mmm sometimes we even manage to get 4 people to test for us' ...
[11:28] <flocculant> with that bbl ;)
[11:35] <knome> flocculant, you can talk about other things than testing too :P
[11:46] <Spass> I have a laptop (currently occupied with Widows 7) which I could intend for testing purposes, is dual-booting more important to test or should I wipe it?
[11:46] <knome> we do not specifically test dual booting, so it doesn't make a difference
[11:47] <knome> what i mean is that we don't have different tests for dual booting and singular booting
[11:48] <Spass> ok, but it may be important how the installation process is behaving when I choose to share my disk with Windows?
[11:48] <knome> if there are issues with that part, then you should absolutely report that
[11:48] <knome> but then again, that isn't specifically what we're testing
[11:49] <knome> you might want to ask flocculant and akxwi-dave whether they'd rather like a dualbooting env or a clean one if you don't mind either one
[11:51] <Spass> personally I'd lean towards dual-booting, because it's my fallback machine just in case, but if clean install is significantly more important to test I can live with that too :)
[11:52] <knome> nope
[12:03] <knome> pleia2, i'm planning to move the static assets and wiki into the dev-xubuntu-org branch of lp:xubuntu-website; and after that merge is done, move that under a separate project. make noises if any objections...
[12:04] <knome> also should push more stuff to lp:xubuntu-marketing...
[12:07] <knome> anyway, bbl
[12:18] <akxwi-dave> Spass: I dual boot on two of my machines, A desktop and a Laptop.. BUT also have spare Xubuntu only machines... to be honest its doesn't matter whether you dual boot or full install..   just remember to backup any data from windows just in case..   It would also be a good test to try the auto resize install test.. or you will need to shrink teh windows
[12:18] <akxwi-dave> partition before installing xubuntu
[12:30] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfdesktop 4.13.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfdesktop-4-13-0-released-tp49217.html (by Eric Koegel)
[12:31] <eric_the_idiot> that announce bot is quick
[12:39] <Spass> akxwi-dave: thanks, so I will try installing with auto-resize then, is it to early to test the daily AA builds from ISO tracker? if not, I will do the static test next week
[13:05] <akxwi-dave> the AA builds are pretty stable at the moment, so now is the time to try it.. i.e you won't get any major problems with the first install of it.. Also there are a number of bugs found already,.. so will give you good one to look at and give you an idea of what to look for..
[16:03] <pleia2> knome: sounds good
[17:47] <knome> pleia2, so i was thinking following the dev.xubuntu.org directory structure but omitting dokuwiki files etc., effectively only adding themes and such
[17:47] <knome> pleia2, maybe we want a script or some kind of README for setting the stuff too though?
[17:48] <knome> pleia2, i guess we don't have server configuration that is obscure enough to not be easily reproducible?
[17:50] <pleia2> it's all pretty simple apache
[17:51] <knome> yeah
[17:51] <knome> "Xubuntu Development Server" and xubuntu-development-server ok for title and url?
[17:51] <pleia2> sure
[17:51] <knome> good
[17:51] <knome> https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-development-server
[18:09] <knome> ok, stuff should be there in one branch


[03:33] <tsimonq2> slangasek: Should be good to go then, he uploaded as is with Conflicts instead of Breaks, going with what you said, now it just needs pushing through NEW by an archive admin... :)
[06:00] <slangasek> fossfreedom: hi, so I'm reviewing NEW packages, and I'm confused about the changelog rationale for budgie-lightdm-theme-base.  What do you mean by "self budgie-desktop builds using the Ubuntu Minimal ISO"?
[08:53] <fossfreedom> slangasek: quite a few people in the community have asked for the ability to create their own builds of budgie-desktop.  So rather that starting from the full ISO and deinstalling they are building from - I presume the netiso or similar - and wanted a simpler method to get a working desktop without pulling in the various customisations/artwork/themes/icon-sets etc we have in Ubuntu Budgie.
[10:12] <ginggs> tsimonq2: do you think we can revert renaming library packages for g++5 ABI transition in healpix-cxx?  Then healpy will become sync-able.
[11:39] <mitya57> slangasek, hm, the policy says a different thing
[11:39] <mitya57> Conflicts should be used … when two packages provide the same file and *will continue to do so*
[11:40] <mitya57> (emphasis mine). So not when one of them is being obsoleted completely.
[11:40] <mitya57> That case seems to fall under "when moving a file from one package to another" which is Breaks according to the policy
[12:04] <fossfreedom> on the off-chance ... anybody have any ideas why our daily builds are failing at the moment?  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/zesty/ubuntu-budgie
[12:09] <cjwatson> mitya57: Conflicts+Replaces is described separately
[12:09] <cjwatson> mitya57: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s7.6.2
[12:21] <mitya57> cjwatson, thanks a lot, now I finally understand it :)
[19:25] <teward> this may sound stupid, but how do I disable PIE / PIC in package rules for a given package?
[19:25] <teward> (nginx merge won't build with it)
[19:41] <hjd> teward: https://wiki.debian.org/Hardening/PIEByDefaultTransition possibly -no-pie (don
[19:41] <hjd> 't really know much about this)
[19:42] <hjd> I'm not sure how large the Ubuntu delta for this package is, but when merging from Debian, presumably that part built successfully with PIE?
[19:56] <teward> we haven't had a merge since 16.04
[19:57] <teward> just direct updates
[19:57] <teward> so... yeah...
[19:57] <teward> blurgh.
[20:00] <hjd> oh :/
[20:04] <hjd> I see, might be easier to look at whether PIE can be enabled again once the delta is more under control? :p
[21:22] <teward> it's not the delta, it's upstream changes that introduce breakage
[21:23] <teward> in dynamic modules
[21:23] <teward> so there's no solution at the moment
[21:47] <hjd> teward: I'm not familiar with the nginx package so I might be missing something obvious, but if the problem is in the upstream code, shouldn't that cause problems in Debian as well? Looks like it built fine there just a couple of days ago.
[21:59] <tzero> uscan is supposed to work, right?
[22:00] <tzero> like, `uscan -d` is supposed to follow the watch file and download something instead of report: "uscan warn: No upstream tarball downloaded."
[22:14] <hjd> tzero: Does it give any other warnings or error messages?
[22:14] <hjd> You could try with `--verbose` or even `--force-download` (check the manpage for details)
[22:17] <tzero> hjd: only "uscan info:    => Package is up to date for from" and "uscan info: Not downloading upstream package: "; it finds everything correctly (watch file is just the standard github boilerplate), mangles the download URL, then tells me it's not going to actually download anything
[22:17] <tzero> oh, force-download works.. why is that even necessary
[22:21] <hjd> I'm afraid I don't know.
[22:53] <ginggs> teward: try DEB_BUILD_MAINT_OPTIONS=hardening=+all,-pie in debian/rules
[23:09] <ginggs> autopkgtests against lmfit-py armhf fail since python-pandas is no longer available for this arch. Can anything be done to prevent these tests from being run, or the results ignored? affected packages are python-numpy,  python-defaults,  matplotlib, python-stdlib-extensions and pandas.
[23:12] <tumbleweed> ginggs: we can tell britney that lmfit-py is known to fail on armhf
[23:12] <tumbleweed> (force-badtest)
[23:14] <ginggs> tumbleweed: thanks.  anyone around who can do this? ^
[23:16]  * tumbleweed can
[23:19] <ginggs> would tumbleweed then, please?
[23:26] <tumbleweed> ginggs: it's not just armhf: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pandas/0.19.1-3
[23:28] <ginggs> tumbleweed: see e.g. http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#python-stdlib-extensions
[23:28] <ginggs> only armhf shows a regression
[23:29] <ginggs> ah, we don't run autopkgtest on arm64 and powerpc
[23:34] <tumbleweed> ginggs: and the version that is in release is published for armhf, so the autopkgtests should be using that...
[23:39] <ginggs> tumbleweed: i think the python-pandas binaries in release have already been removed so it can migrate
[23:46] <tumbleweed> ginggs: aah
[23:48] <tumbleweed> ginggs: done
[23:59] <ginggs> tumbleweed: thanks! and goodnight


[00:16] <JackFrost> https://ubuntu.com//blog/bare-metal-provisioning-of-hot-metal is dead.
[00:24] <Bashing-om> JackFrost: rechecking ^ :(
[00:49] <Bashing-om> krytarik: ^^  Pulling https://ubuntu.com//blog/bare-metal-provisioning-of-hot-metal. Also Ouch ! "Diátaxis, a new foundation for Canonical documentation" also no longer is on The Planet - We want to move it elsewhere in our newsletter?
[02:23] <guiverc> yeah Bashing-om, doing my read-thry now & I don't find the Diátaxis ubuntu blog report on planet; maybe move to general news?   I have no issue with it remaining in planet though.. (it's in my liferea/RSS feed as in planet.ubuntu so it WAS there anyway)
[02:24] <guiverc> s/readthry/readthru etc... my usual typos
[02:28] <Bashing-om> guiverc: The article was on the Planet - (remains as a link too on twitter) - We should not be held resposible as the article is no more there ( we do have a prededence for this). But, I too have no hearburn to move up to General.
[02:28] <guiverc> Bashing-om, URL needs changing; from https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-ugly-sweater-contest-and-end-of-the-year-party/25674  to  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_p9MiJxjbg  (looking.. video in my opinion; the discourse post was last week getting entries for youtube/video presentation; it was the video that's news this week)
[02:29] <guiverc> I'm sure not worried about links that change;  I worried maybe first 2-3 times, but it's water of duck's back now.. I'm happy with planet.ubuntu for the diathingy
[02:29] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Agreed on OnAir link - will change :)
[02:30]  * guiverc used diagthing as I wasn't willing to cut/paste that word again.. or select from my list of clipboard whatevers either
[02:35] <guiverc> my read thru is complete; looks good Bashing-om
[02:36] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Great - we do good works :P
[17:08] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: elementary OS 6.1 Released, This is What’s New @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/12/elementary-os-6-1-released-see-whats-new (by Joey Sneddon)
[20:03] <Bashing-om> UWN: Pulling "WIP" - log cheched, no further edits are known, Time to push 21:00 UTC.
[21:00] <Bashing-om> UWN: ubuntu-news@lists is away - doing the Forum post next.
[21:14] <guiverc> okay to push 714 to fridge Bashing-om ?
[21:17] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Yeah push away - be aware line 77 fridge/publish-uwn-fridge.pl is screaming and hollering .
[21:18] <guiverc> yeah got that, I needed to correct/change to URLs is all I noticed.
[21:18] <guiverc> https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2021/12/20/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-714/  & tweeted
[21:18] <Bashing-om> UWN: Forum post done - normal abrigments - doing the Re-directs next.
[21:21] <guiverc> posted 714 to telegram  (reddit & other too places as me)
[21:27] <Bashing-om> UWN: Re-directs completed. spot check of Fridge coming up :D
[21:29] <Bashing-om> Fridge: spot check and the Fridge looks good all over :D
[21:29] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Clear now to wipe away Gdoc ?
[21:30] <guiverc> posted 714 to fb too, and yep scrub away :)
[21:32] <Bashing-om> \o/ for FB - doing the wipe deed ATT :D
[21:38] <Bashing-om> UWN: We do Issue715 :D
[21:41] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: The Fridge: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 714 @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2021/12/20/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-714/


[04:34] <jashacharjee> hello everyone
[04:34] <jashacharjee> I want to make a port of  ubuntu touch to my Moto Z2 play
[04:34] <jashacharjee> can anyone guide me?
[04:34] <jashacharjee> I seem to be lost after few pages of the documentation
[04:37] <jashacharjee> Can anyone help me?
[09:52] <Fuseteam> Ozzz: grouper is not supported atm
[09:53] <Fuseteam> jashacharjee: the best way to get help is to just ask your question
[09:54] <Fuseteam> That said the halium telegram group is probably the best place to find an answer atm
[09:54] <jashacharjee> ohh okay sure
[09:54] <jashacharjee> thanks
[09:57] <Fuseteam> Nobo: i believe there is way with qemu, but its not really usable atm
[09:58] <Fuseteam> PoVoq: sadly the bridge is still down :(


[15:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mitya57, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3998 Preparing packages
[16:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mitya57, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3998 Successfully built
[16:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mitya57, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3998 Publishing packages
[16:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mitya57, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3998 Proposed pocket
[17:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mitya57, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3998 Release pocket


[08:29] <richardcavell> Hi all. I'm running Ubuntu 9.04 on a MacBook with Intel GMA950 chipset.  The drivers are pretty buggy.  I hope to fix them by upgrading from the stable release to something more edgy.  I'm thinking kernel 2.6.30 with KMS, and later builds of the intel linux drivers. Can anyone nominate an easy way to do this?
[08:30] <tjaalton> yeah, upgrade to karmic
[08:30] <tjaalton> or use the xorg-updates PPA
[08:31] <crevette> richardcavell, but karmic is still in development so it going to be unstable
[08:31] <richardcavell> crevette: well my present video system is unstable...
[08:32] <richardcavell> tjaalton: If I simply upgrade to Karmic will that give me kernel mode setting, and the latest intel drivers?
[08:32] <tjaalton> yes
[08:32] <tjaalton> other things might get broken though, like crevette pointed out
[08:32] <richardcavell> The latest intel drivers (from intellinuxdrivers.org) are xf86-video-intel-2.8.0
[08:33] <richardcavell> I tried downloading the source and ./configure but it gives me an error and I don't know enough to fix it
[08:34] <richardcavell> checking for XORG... configure: error: Package requirements (xorg-server >= 1.6 xproto fontsproto ) were not met:
[08:34] <richardcavell> No package 'xorg-server' found
[08:34] <richardcavell> No package 'fontsproto' found
[08:34] <tjaalton> even if you got it working, it wouldn't be enough
[08:34] <tjaalton> since you need the new kernel
[08:35] <richardcavell> tjaalton: I can download binaries for the new kernel
[08:35] <tjaalton> so build the deb from karmic then?
[08:35] <richardcavell> tjaalton: but I can't find binaries for Ubuntu for the latest intel drivers.  2.6.3 is the latest stable version
[08:36] <richardcavell> looking at the changelogs for the intel drivers, it looks like heaps of bugs have been fixed between 2.6.3 and 2.8.0
[08:36] <tjaalton> yes, but in order to get 2.8.0 working you really need 2.6.31rc
[08:37] <tjaalton> .30 might work
[08:41] <richardcavell> I'll upgrade if it will fix my problems, but I'm not sure if it will
[08:41] <tjaalton> you could also try the xorg-edgers PPA and only pull -intel and it's deps
[08:41] <tjaalton> and the new kernel
[08:45] <richardcavell> tjaalton: that's what I'd prefer
[08:46] <tjaalton> and after installing what you need, disable it
[08:46] <tjaalton> so that the other crack won't be installed along with other updates
[08:47] <hyperair> has anyone gotten the rc4 kernel to not panic with intel + modesetting?
[08:47] <tjaalton> haven't tried it yet
[08:57] <richardcavell> Okay, I want to upgrade to a more recent set of drivers for my Intel GMA950 on Jaunty.  Here's what I'm planning to do: Install linux kernel 2.6.30-10 and everything in the xorg-edgers PPA.  Does this sound good?
[09:12] <tjaalton> don't install everything, just the driver and kernel
[09:12] <tjaalton> gone ->
[09:35] <RAOF> Look out ninjas.  Preliminary suspend/resume support for g80 (exactly) lands in xorg-edgers/nouveau.
[12:17] <Guest6103> Hi, guys. I have Jaunty running on a Macbook second-generation, which has an Intel GMA 950.  I was getting poor performance with the standard issue Jaunty drivers.  So I installed everything from the xorg-edgers PPA and now X won't start at all!  Any ideas?
[12:21] <Guest6103> Okay, can I ask this: I can't get X11 to work, but I can get to a root command line.  What's the metapackage that I need to force install via apt-get to give me the standard Jaunty stable xorg?
[14:33] <Sarvatt> well heck, I go out of my way to make sure edgers always works and am conservative about updates in it. if people see it that way i might as well just throw xorg 7.5 in there and really break things :)
[14:43] <Sarvatt> telling people to just install intel and its dependencies is kinda a bad idea, its not like the packaging scripts get all the deps right since its based on the older releases.. and back when xserver <IP_ADDRESS>2 was in there it wouldnt even work with the jaunty xserver because of how the dri2 abi was broken.. thats what x-updates is for
[14:47] <Sarvatt> guess i need to work on the hooks more, the xserver in there requires mesa 7.5 at least because it compiles in setTexBuffer2 support because its available at build time
[15:50] <Le-Chuck_ITA> Hi all, can someone take a look at bug #402982? Bryce do you have an intel card? Do you have the same bug?
[16:02] <Sarvatt> revert back to the 2.6.30-2 kernel
[16:02] <Sarvatt> err 2.6.31-2
[16:02] <Sarvatt> hopefully the fix makes it into 2.6.31-5, it didnt make it into 2.6.31-4
[16:05] <Sarvatt> lots of people are having that problem though
[16:06] <Sarvatt> started with 2.6.31-rc3 because of this http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=7662c8bd6545c12ac7b2b39e4554c3ba34789c50
[17:57] <jbarnes> tseliot: ping
[17:57] <tseliot> jbarnes: pong
[17:57] <jbarnes> tseliot: hi!
[17:57] <jbarnes> so
[17:57] <tseliot> hi :-)
[17:57] <jbarnes> I just upgraded my dell mini 12 to jaunty yesterday
[17:58] <jbarnes> and found (after some digging) the ubuntu mobile repo with the latest poulsbo drivers
[17:58] <jbarnes> they seem to work a bit, but they hang a lot and suspend/resume takes forever
[17:58] <jbarnes> are there any updates in the works or something I can subscribe to for status updates?
[17:59] <tseliot> yes, that's not what I worked on
[17:59] <tseliot> I don't think I can share the OEM repositories though
[17:59] <jbarnes> oh so the mobile repo has old stuff?
[17:59] <tseliot> I'm not sure, as I don't maintain that
[18:00] <tseliot> I can ask my boss to see if I can share the repo
[18:00] <jbarnes> thanks
[18:01] <jbarnes> or you could point me at someone else... I'd like to get this machine to be a little more stable
[18:01] <jbarnes> I can also ping some people internally
[18:02] <tseliot> jbarnes: do you know Michael Frey?
[18:02] <jbarnes> no I don't think so
[18:03] <tseliot> jbarnes: ok, let me ask around in our private oem chat room
[18:04] <jbarnes> thanks, I poked some UMG folks too
[18:04] <jbarnes> maybe I can get access to the bits we end up sending you guys :)
[18:06] <tseliot> jbarnes: I did some work so that it works with DKMS, add diversions, etc.
[18:06] <jbarnes> cool
[18:06] <jbarnes> so if you're ever able to include it in the jaunty/karmic repos it should be easy right? :)
[18:07] <tseliot> jbarnes: I don't think I can do that. Maybe I can upload them to a PPA. I'm discussing this with my team manager
[18:08] <jbarnes> oh right, I'm not sure how you handle the binary only stuff
[18:10] <tseliot> jbarnes: ok, I can set up a PPA
[18:11] <jbarnes> yay
[18:11]  * jbarnes hopes the bits are better than the ones he already has
[18:15] <tseliot> jbarnes: ok, I'll upload the packages here: https://launchpad.net/~albertomilone/+archive/poulsbo-graphics
[18:15] <jbarnes> cool
[18:15] <tseliot> it will take a while though
[18:15] <jbarnes> np I probably won't get a chance to update until tonight
[18:18] <bryce> well I've gotten stuck on my upload tool
[18:18] <jbarnes> tseliot: thanks a lot
[18:19] <bryce> launchpad doesn't give enough info about attachments unfortunately
[18:19] <jbarnes> all the poor suffering poulsbo users will be a bit happier now
[18:19] <tseliot> jbarnes: np ;)
[18:19] <jbarnes> tseliot: fwiw there are a few forum threads etc where you could announce the ppa
[18:19] <jbarnes> seems quite a few people are looking for it
[18:20] <tseliot> jbarnes: I don't want to make too much noise about it
[18:21] <jbarnes> yeah I suppose attracting attention to poulsbo is a bad thing generally :)
[18:21] <tseliot> hehe
[18:22] <ScottK> tseliot: Are you going to build poulsbo for Karmic?
[18:23] <tseliot> ScottK: I'm not even sure as to whether it builds with the kernels in Karmic
[18:23] <ScottK> OK.
[18:24] <tseliot> ScottK: BTW did my synaptics package work well for you?
[18:25] <ScottK> tseliot: I still didn't get my 10v back to normal after Alpha 3 testing, so I didn't try it yet.
[18:25] <ScottK> $WORK has been very busy this week.
[18:25] <tseliot> ok, np
[18:27] <ScottK> I saw you got some very good feedback on it though.
[18:28] <tseliot> right. Thanks apw :-)
[18:29] <apw> tseliot, heh :)  my 10v was a pig to use without that one package with it its not bad
[18:29] <tseliot> :-)
[18:29] <apw> i have large finger tips and i could do with the buttons making bigger
[18:29] <apw> or whatever its doing to stop it going  bonkers
[18:30] <apw> anyhow ... win over the previous option which was poking ones eyes out everytime you lifted the wrong finger first
[18:30] <tseliot> apw: have you tried the xinput property?
[18:30] <tseliot> "Synaptics Area"
[18:30]  * apw has only added the package
[18:30] <apw> there is more magic?
[18:31] <tseliot> apw: that will allow you to create an area outside of which movements, taps, etc. are ignored
[18:31] <apw> oh nice so i can deaden like the whole bottom or something
[18:31] <tseliot> apw: yes, exactly
[18:31] <apw> is that just in the driver, or something the pad does?
[18:32] <apw> as it would be nice to be able to say the bottom left triangle
[18:32] <tseliot> apw: I implemented that in the X driver (and it's in upstream now)
[18:33] <apw> so we could make it any shape in principle
[18:33] <tseliot> triangle?
[18:33] <tseliot> it works with rectangles right now
[18:33] <apw> the area lets me define a rectagle in the middle which is active basically yes?
[18:34] <apw> for the particular case of the 10v it would be nice to define two square which do not work out of the corners of the pad
[18:34] <tseliot> yes
[18:34] <apw> rather then lose all the bottom or all the sides or whatever
[18:34] <apw> anyhow thats all academic, it sounds like in principle we could do that if we wanted
[18:34] <apw> as its done in sw we have control over :)
[18:35] <tseliot> it's doable but it took me a while to get my patch accepted ;)
[18:35] <apw> heh yeah ...
[18:35] <tseliot> for now you can try with xinput set-int-prop $YOUR_DEVICE_ID "Synaptics Area" 32 0 0 0 4000
[18:35] <apw> the main bit i am benfiting from then is just the 'you couldn't get there that fast, i can't hear you' fix
[18:36] <apw> how does one find out ones DEVICE_ID
[18:36] <tseliot> note: 0 means that limit = physical edge
[18:36]  * apw strays out of his nice comfortable kernel cave
[18:36] <tseliot> xinput list
[18:36] <tseliot> and see where it says id
[18:37] <apw> what the heck is a macintosh button emulation when its at home
[18:37] <apw> tseliot, so why 5 numbers?
[18:37] <tseliot> 32 bit
[18:38] <apw> ahh
[18:38] <apw> stupid interfaces :)
[18:38] <tseliot> then you have left, right, top, bottom. It's all documented in the man page of synaptics
[18:38] <apw> so is that 4000, 4000 units from the bottom up or 4000 from the top down
[18:39] <tseliot> y is inverted, so top < bottom
[18:39] <apw> so to make the bottom band smaller i'd make it > 4000
[18:40] <tseliot> apw: right
[18:40] <tseliot> jbarnes: do things improve if you put this in a file in /etc/modprobe.d/ :
[18:40] <tseliot> options psb disable_vsync=1 no_fb=1
[18:41] <tseliot> that should help
[18:41] <jbarnes> ok cool I'll try that
[18:42] <tseliot> jbarnes: that should prevent it from hanging or make it hang less frequently at least
[19:54] <Sarvatt> might be a little easier to use like synclient AreaBottomEdge 4000 instead of figuring out the id
[21:46] <Sarvatt> oops, I meant synclient AreaButtomEdge=4000 earlier
[22:12]  * hyperair feels stupid
[22:12] <hyperair> turns out the panic was because i forgot to add an initrd
[22:25]  * hyperair watches ccache hits rise and kernel modules go whizzing by


[12:51] <ddstreet> fyi, the backporters meeting today has been rescheduled to aug 2, for anyone interested


[00:23] <rusbus> solidity in atom set tab equal to 4 spaces
[00:23] <rusbus> sorted
[00:27] <kulelu88> you a night-owl? rusbus
[00:30] <rusbus> I used to be
[00:30] <rusbus> not anymore cause of work
[00:33] <rusbus> night
[06:21] <Kilos> morning nlsthzn  and everyone else
[07:23] <nlsthzn> o/
[08:09] <captine> morning all
[08:09] <Kilos> hi captine  hows things?
[08:09] <Kilos> hi georgelappies
[08:09] <captine> ok.  finally finished a project that had me at the office till all hours of hte morning
[08:10] <captine> so things should be getting to normal
[08:10] <Kilos> i just spent an hour looking at comments on facebook, something i rarely do
[08:11] <Kilos> looks like there will never be such a thing as normal anymore
[08:11] <Kilos> i see the fly has learned to bake bread and make pizza too
[08:12] <Kilos> made me hungry looking at it
[08:12] <Cryterion> being unique is far from normal
[08:12] <Kilos> hi Cryterion
[08:12] <Cryterion> hiya
[08:12] <Kilos> captine  we have had a flood of new peeps here
[08:12] <captine> awesome
[08:13] <captine> Kilos, wanted to ask you about your take on the KDE dev and the community council.  Struggling to get my head around what happened.
[08:13] <Kilos> imo its all about um
[08:13] <Kilos> sec lemme think
[08:14] <captine> um?
[08:14] <Kilos> when peeps differ of opinion and instead of being friendly about it getting agro with each other
[08:15] <Kilos> um is when i try think
[08:15] <Kilos> when it takes a while then its followed by er
[08:15] <captine> lol
[08:15] <captine> ok
[08:16] <Kilos> they gotta sort it because i <3 kde
[08:18] <Kilos> saw an interesting link in the lists for ubuntu users but dont wanna try on my kde
[08:18] <Kilos> http://news.softpedia.com/news/You-Can-Now-Install-and-Test-Unity-8-and-Mir-in-Any-Supported-Ubuntu-OS-483206.shtml
[08:19] <Kilos> unity 8 is he thing thats gonna get convergence going if i read things correctly
[08:19] <Kilos> ai! sticky t
[08:23] <superfly> Kilos: they might rename Kubuntu and use Debian instead of Ubuntu. They'll keep KDE.
[08:23] <Kilos> whew ty superfly
[08:24] <georgelappies> hi all
[08:24] <georgelappies> hi Kilos
[08:25] <Kilos> hows georgelappies  today
[08:25] <superfly> Kilos: you can always use Debian, which has KDE
[08:25] <georgelappies> lol, good thanks. Cold but good :)
[08:26] <superfly> It's a little warmer today in Cape Town
[08:26] <Kilos> superfly  i will, if things get bad, but im kinda loyal to ubuntu so long
[08:26] <Kilos> superfly  you must eat freshly baked bread when its hot
[08:26] <Kilos> very lekker
[08:26] <Kilos> hi chris_za
[08:27] <chris_za> howdie
[08:27] <superfly> Kilos: I know, it just didn't work out that way.
[08:27] <superfly> Hi chris_za
[08:27] <Kilos> and your pizza looks great
[08:27] <chris_za> was just setting this up for when I get stuck lol
[08:27] <Kilos> chris_za  you been here before hey?
[08:27] <superfly> Kilos: that's mrs_fly's pizza
[08:27] <chris_za> nope 1st time
[08:27] <Kilos> tell her it looks yummy
[08:28] <Kilos> chris_za  welcome to ubuntu-za
[08:28] <superfly> Kilos: it was very yummy ;-)
[08:28] <chris_za> ty :), I promise to behave lol
[08:28] <Kilos> you are welcome to hang here 24/7
[08:28] <Kilos> if you need help chris_za  just state your prob
[08:29] <chris_za> so far my probs are unfixable lol
[08:29] <Kilos> lol
[08:29] <chris_za> switched to ubuntu finally and none of my damn prnt's will work :)
[08:29] <Kilos> tell us a bit about yourself chris_za  starting with how you found us
[08:30] <Kilos> ai!
[08:32] <Kilos> superfly  do you use enigmail?
[08:33] <Kilos> pro got me to go through all of that yesterday
[08:34] <Kilos> now did i chase chris or is it net probs
[08:34] <Kilos> sigh
[08:38] <superfly> Kilos: no, my email is Web based
[08:38] <Kilos> ah
[08:38] <Kilos> what a job all this security is
[08:47] <captine> superfly, I am a little annoyed with this Kubuntu thing.  Really hope to get the full picture to see where I lie.. I love Unity, and am really enjoying Gnome 3 on 15.04... but to be honest, never really found KDE to be my thing.  Used it on Arch for about 3 months and enjoyed it, but for my use case, find Gnome and Unity to fit me...  that said, still want to know whats happening, as I would hate Kubuntu to disappear.
[08:49] <captine> PS, anyone seen the roundcube indiegogo... I hope companies like my ISP (Cybersmart) club in given their use of Roundcube...
[08:50] <Kilos> hi rusbus
[09:17] <solidity> rusbus> solidity in atom set tab equal to 4 spaces
[09:17] <solidity> That is like sweeping dirt under the rug.
[09:17] <solidity> I will know those aren't real tabs but fake tabs.
[09:25] <stickyboy> atom text editor is pretty... but not ready yet.
[09:25] <solidity> Well, I was looking for a lightweight editor, but it turns out this thing is fairly large.
[09:25] <solidity> And slower than I expected.
[09:26] <solidity> but I haven't actually used it yet
[09:28] <Cryterion> Cryt-Survival: players
[09:28] <stickyboy> solidity: Yah, it's CSS + JS. Pretty heavy.
[09:28] <Cryterion> hmm, wrong room
[09:28] <stickyboy> solidity: Speaking of, lemme update my installed version + plugins...
[09:29] <stickyboy> I keep checking it every week or two.
[09:31] <solidity> Is it built with CSS + JS?
[09:31] <superfly> captine: Kubuntu is not really going to go anywhere. It may change name and morph somewhat, but JRiddell, ScottK and the others are not going anywhere.
[09:32] <stickyboy> solidity: Yeah, Atom is Chromium + NodeJS.
[09:32] <solidity> oh wow
[09:32] <solidity> that is interesting
[09:34] <stickyboy> Yah
[09:34] <solidity> Maybe I'll keep using it them simply because if that is the platform for it's "hackability" then I should be able to get started right away.
[09:34] <stickyboy> It even has a plugin for vim key bindings...
[09:35] <solidity> Yeah I saw.
[09:37] <solidity> It is more responsive today, guess it was just because it was the first time running yesterday and it hand to cache things and whatnot.
[09:38] <solidity> had*
[09:43] <stickyboy> solidity: True
[09:43] <stickyboy> It does stuff in the backend. Sometimes I see apm doing stuff in htop.
[09:48] <stickyboy> https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamjuly2008_djvu.txt
[09:49] <solidity> This is very relevant to my interests.
[09:50] <stickyboy> solidity: The open access manifesto?
[09:50] <solidity> Ran into paywalls for science papers way too often.
[09:50] <stickyboy> It's by Aaron Swartz... who... killed himself.
[09:50] <solidity> I'm still reading, but I like what I'm reading.
[09:53] <solidity> Why?
[09:53] <solidity> inb4 illuminati assassination made to look like suicide
[10:01] <solidity> Can't believe I haven't heard of this guy before.
[10:03] <stickyboy> Yah, he founded Reddit and was influential in some other web standards, like RSS I think.
[10:08] <solidity>  Swartz has been identified as a cofounder of Reddit, but the title is a source of controversy. With the merger of Infogami and Reddit, Swartz became a coowner and director of parent company Not A Bug, Inc., along with Reddit cofounders Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian.[220
[13:00] <squish102> ssh'ing from windows i use mobaxterm... now that i have a mac, what is a good one?
[13:03] <rusbus> solidity how is it sweeping dirt under a rug?
[13:03] <rusbus> and atom is slow on startup
[13:03] <rusbus> but fast otherwise
[13:03] <rusbus> unless if you're opening a VERY large file and trying to ctrl+f through it, you won't think it's slow
[13:20] <rusbus> Kilos
[13:20] <Kilos> yes
[13:20] <rusbus> I found tinned curry mix veggies
[13:20] <rusbus> :D
[13:20] <Kilos> golddish?
[13:20] <rusbus> rhodes quality
[13:21] <rusbus> still good
[13:21] <rusbus> if you never mentioned it I would have been blind to it
[13:21] <rusbus> but now I looked for curried veg and found em :D
[13:21] <Kilos> i use all the others for adding to a curry i make but the golddish i eat straight out the tin
[13:21] <rusbus> I wish they still sold tinned biryai - love that stuff
[13:21] <rusbus> hmm I need to find golddish then
[13:22] <rusbus> I'm currently chowing this straight from the tin :p
[13:22] <Kilos> next time look for gold dish and tell me what you think
[13:22] <rusbus> I wish this was spicier but still very good
[13:22] <Kilos> they have the recipe spot on and not lots of water with i
[13:22] <Kilos> it
[13:22] <rusbus> ya this one is more watery than I'd like tbh
[13:23] <Kilos> you will see the diffs when you find it
[13:23] <Kilos> also to make it better you can make your own with it
[13:23] <rusbus> where do you buy from?
[13:23] <rusbus> I went to checkers
[13:23] <Kilos> fry onions and garlic and he spices you want then add the curry
[13:24] <Kilos> all of the supermarkets
[13:24] <rusbus> hmm they didn't have golddish
[13:24] <rusbus> or I didn't find it
[13:24] <Kilos> golddish was the first we could get then the others followed suite
[13:25] <rusbus> is it mixed veg
[13:25] <rusbus> or something else?
[13:25] <Kilos> mixed veg
[13:25] <rusbus> I bought some curry powder
[13:25] <rusbus> keen to make some curry mince
[13:25] <rusbus> and make some roti's
[13:25] <rusbus> :D
[13:25] <Kilos> less water for starters than the others and richer flavour
[13:26] <Kilos> rajah curry powder is the best
[13:26] <rusbus> thats what I got :D
[13:26] <Kilos> for peeps that cant take hot food the mild and spicy is best
[13:26] <Kilos> if you want it hot you add chili
[13:27] <Kilos> i have my recipe somewhere ill post it for you when i find it
[13:27] <Kilos> oh and you in durbs
[13:27] <rusbus> ye
[13:27] <Kilos> you can get curry leaves there too
[13:27] <rusbus> I like it hot
[13:27] <rusbus> :D
[13:28] <rusbus> ya there is actually a gorimas like 20m from where I work
[13:28] <rusbus> so I can always get stuff easily
[13:28] <Kilos> i have a curry leaf tree here i have to carry in every winter
[13:28] <rusbus> you carry every winter?
[13:28] <rusbus> thats something I need to grow myself
[13:28] <Kilos> carry the tree inside or frost kills it
[13:28] <rusbus> they make for good looking trees
[13:29] <rusbus> oh so yours is potted
[13:29] <Kilos> you can get them at nursaries there
[13:29] <Kilos> yes large pot
[13:29] <Kilos> makes quite a big bush/tree thing
[13:30] <rusbus> I like to grow my stuff from seeds
[13:30] <Kilos> leaves add taste to any stew without hot curry burn
[13:30] <rusbus> I wanted to grow a lemon tree but bought one from a nursery and it hasn't grown in like 6 months that I've had it :(
[13:30] <Kilos> these grow from roots sprouting
[13:30] <rusbus> what insects chow your tree?
[13:31] <Kilos> all around the curry tree new trees come up
[13:31] <Kilos> none
[13:31] <rusbus> wonder if it'll be the same here
[13:31] <Kilos> curry leaf onion and garlic is about all that bugs dont attack
[13:31] <rusbus> how do you wash/prepare your leaves?
[13:32] <Kilos> yes man i brought my first one from our place in toti
[13:32] <Kilos> i just pick them and throw then in
[13:32] <Kilos> hehe
[13:32] <rusbus> that sounds dangerous to me xD
[13:32] <rusbus> #ubuntu-za-cooking
[13:32] <rusbus> xD
[13:33] <rusbus> #ubuntu-za-curry
[13:33] <Kilos> ill get you a pic of the tree
[13:33] <rusbus> cool :D
[13:33] <rusbus> I had an... incident with a friends fathers curry tree
[13:33] <rusbus> I don't think he ever forgave me :p
[13:34] <rusbus> being the young, testosterone filled adrenaline junkie I was
[13:34] <rusbus> I was on my friends BMX
[13:34] <rusbus> with him on the back pegs
[13:34] <rusbus> cycling as hard as I could down his steep road
[13:34] <rusbus> took my hands off the handlebars to make my friend shit himself
[13:34] <rusbus> which he did
[13:35] <rusbus> took a corner like that
[13:35] <rusbus> and into his driveway
[13:35] <rusbus> everything was under control
[13:35] <rusbus> but he had these big potholes in his driveway
[13:35] <rusbus> I tried to go left around it and he freaked out and put his weight to the right
[13:35] <rusbus> we smacked the pothole and went flying into the tree
[13:35] <rusbus> and OWNED it
[13:36] <Kilos> lol
[13:36] <Kilos> just touching those leaves make me hungry
[13:36] <Kilos> what a lekker smell
[13:36] <rusbus> pavlovs dog :D
[13:37] <Kilos> my sis must mail me the pic
[13:37] <Kilos> my stupid fone can do pics
[13:37] <rusbus> lol
[13:39] <Kilos> i mean cant
[13:39] <rusbus> I knew what you meant :)
[13:39] <Kilos> pm me youe email addy
[13:39] <Kilos> i make lotsa typos
[13:39] <Kilos> sorry
[13:40] <rusbus> my mother has conditioned me to read poorly constructed sentences :p
[13:40] <rusbus> (not that yours are)
[13:41] <Kilos> lol
[13:42] <Kilos> i even have an advocado pear tree that also must come in in winter
[13:42] <Kilos> i really miss toti
[13:42] <Kilos> the old toti
[13:43] <rusbus> I grew 5 avo trees from pips, my sisters bery young son killed the one
[13:43] <rusbus> I need bigger pots for them now
[13:43] <rusbus> they're about 2 years old
[13:43] <rusbus> very*
[13:43] <rusbus> oh, Kilos, your tree is quite small
[13:44] <rusbus> my friends fathers free was a little taller than I am
[13:44] <rusbus> quite a decent size
[13:44] <rusbus> I feel hungry looking at a plant :p
[13:45] <Kilos> see the thicks stalks
[13:45] <rusbus> ya
[13:45] <Kilos> i keep cutting it down so i can carry it in
[13:46] <Kilos> they have them in the nursaries around warners winkel i think
[13:47] <Kilos> nursaries
[13:47] <Kilos> sjoe something looks wrong
[13:47] <rusbus> there is a nursary in winkle?
[13:47] <Kilos> on the road from warners to winkel there used to be a good one
[13:49] <rusbus> I think I only know of two
[13:49] <rusbus> illovo nursary
[13:49] <rusbus> and then there is a halls mica nursery that is relatively new
[13:49] <Kilos> just ask around
[13:50] <rusbus> a lot changes in 20 years :p
[13:50] <Kilos> they get where the new sprout comes up and take a bit of root on either side and pot it
[13:50] <Kilos> yeah
[13:50] <rusbus> when last were you here?
[13:50] <Kilos> whew lemme work on that
[13:51] <Kilos> i think been gone since 88
[13:51] <rusbus> 27 years
[13:51] <Kilos> haha
[13:51] <rusbus> I know this cause my sister was born in 88 and just turned 27 :p
[13:52] <Kilos> lol
[13:52] <rusbus> when last were you in UMHLANGA?
[13:52] <rusbus> that place...
[13:52] <rusbus> in like 10 years
[13:52] <rusbus> went from sugar can to this massive beast
[13:52] <rusbus> well back in 88 it wasn't even umhlanga
[13:52] <rusbus> do you remember where the sharks board was?
[13:53] <rusbus> not sure how long it's been where it is
[13:53] <Kilos> yes
[13:53] <rusbus> there durban north area
[13:53] <Kilos> i met beula there
[13:53] <rusbus> in all that sugar cane
[13:53] <rusbus> beula?
[13:53] <Kilos> beula davies i think her name is
[13:53] <Kilos> was head of sharks board
[13:53] <rusbus> who is that? xD
[13:53] <rusbus> oh
[13:53] <rusbus> well when I was a kid
[13:53] <rusbus> you literally travelled on a long road
[13:53] <rusbus> and got to the sharks board
[13:53] <Kilos> yes
[13:54] <rusbus> it was just sugar cane everywhere
[13:54] <rusbus> now it's madness
[13:54] <rusbus> thats near where I work now
[13:54] <Kilos> at the sharks board?
[13:54] <rusbus> down the road from it
[13:54] <Kilos> ah
[13:54] <rusbus> https://www.google.co.za/maps/place/Kwazulu-Natal+Sharks+Board/@-29.718266,31.0831562,14z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x1ef705f4cd231243:0xfeb6a6b80c5315c4?hl=en
[13:54] <rusbus> just zoom out on that map
[13:55] <rusbus> 10 years ago it was ONLY the sharks board there
[13:55] <rusbus> ok maybe 15 years
[13:55] <rusbus> go into street view
[13:55] <rusbus> and look at how built up it is
[13:56] <rusbus> the sharks board could sell their land for big moola now
[13:56] <Kilos> wow
[13:56] <rusbus> those images are 2 years old
[13:57] <rusbus> whatever you see under construction there has been finished
[13:57] <rusbus> and more stuff next to it
[13:57] <Kilos> when i left, if you travelled up to pmb there was nothing behind about 3ks past elgro
[13:57] <rusbus> elgro?
[13:57] <Kilos> all sugar cane too
[13:57] <rusbus> why would you go past elgro
[13:58] <Kilos> elgro flats on top of the hill
[13:58] <rusbus> I know elgro
[13:58] <rusbus> but why go past elgro to go to PMB?
[13:58] <gremble> o/
[13:58] <rusbus> o/
[13:58] <Kilos> no man i mean up the pmb road
[13:58] <Kilos> there wasnt much other side of elgro
[13:59] <rusbus> 'the pmb road' == ?
[13:59] <Kilos> like from where you turned left to illovo sugarestates there was nothing
[13:59] <rusbus> oh the uuhh
[13:59] <rusbus> R206 or w/e it's called
[13:59] <Kilos> the pmb road from winkel up
[13:59] <rusbus> you'd go that route to PMB? xD
[14:00] <Kilos> yes
[14:00] <rusbus> I don't think I've ever done that :p
[14:00] <rusbus> I've taken that road to other places
[14:00] <Kilos> was a lekker road for a fast bike
[14:00] <rusbus> but never to pmb
[14:00] <rusbus> ya I've taken my bike along there
[14:01] <Kilos> many cane trucks though to make things interesting at 200 kph
[14:01] <rusbus> ya and dropped sugar cane...
[14:01] <Kilos> lol
[14:01] <Kilos> i loved speed
[14:01] <rusbus> same
[14:02] <rusbus> o/
[14:02] <Kilos> my moto guzzi le mans i think it was loved that road
[14:02] <rusbus> it has been a VERY long time since I've seen a moto guzzi
[14:02] <Kilos> wonderful handling bikes
[14:03] <rusbus> maybe at those days standards :p
[14:03] <Kilos> even better than my bmw r100s
[14:03] <rusbus> that bwm
[14:03] <rusbus> had a boxster motor?
[14:03] <rusbus> that gives me shivers thinking about it
[14:03] <rusbus> I'd never want to ride it
[14:03] <Kilos> tose days we spoke of german quality and reliability and jap scrap
[14:04] <Kilos> wonderful bike
[14:04] <Kilos> very forgiving
[14:04] <rusbus> I'm pretty sure thats the same bike my uncle crashed and broke both arms, both legs and many ribs :p
[14:04] <Kilos> and warm feet in winter
[14:05] <Kilos> crashed how
[14:05] <Kilos> into something
[14:12] <Kilos> rusbus  you here?
[14:12] <Kilos> http://bin.snyman.info/cxvrh
[14:33] <rusbus> sorry, was cooking dinner for my doggies
[14:33] <rusbus> with all our juicy left overs
[14:34] <rusbus> Kilos I think cause of the boxster engine he was going through an S type corner
[14:34] <rusbus> was fine on the right hander
[14:34] <rusbus> crashed on the left hander
[14:34] <rusbus> cause the pistons go side to side
[14:34] <rusbus> so he said he felt more pull the one side
[14:34] <rusbus> and bam
[14:34] <Kilos> na man
[14:35] <Kilos> he played wrong with the throttle
[14:35] <Kilos> but he learned
[14:35] <rusbus> well I never really understood it myself
[14:35] <rusbus> but that is his story
[14:35] <Kilos> lol
[14:35] <Kilos> did you go see my recipe
[14:35] <rusbus> pretty sure it has the same centrifugal force no matter the side you lean
[14:35] <rusbus> ya I got it open
[14:35] <rusbus> just watching something
[14:35] <Kilos> you can add chili or use a hotter rajah
[14:35] <rusbus> http://www.twitch.tv/orenaza
[14:36] <rusbus> ^
[14:36] <rusbus> the winners of this game get to go compete in canada
[14:36] <rusbus> bvd the favorites are 1 round from losing
[14:36] <rusbus> also my cousin plays for bvd
[14:36] <Kilos> i dont watch moving things, they waste my data
[14:36] <rusbus> oh
[14:36] <rusbus> #cappedlife
[14:36] <rusbus> it's a competitive csgo game being played live
[14:36] <Kilos> lol
[14:36] <Kilos> cool
[14:39] <rusbus> oh there is still 1 more map to be played
[14:41] <rusbus> Kilos thanks for the recipe
[14:41] <rusbus> saved :D
[14:41] <Kilos> yw
[15:28] <inetpro> good afternoon
[15:29]  * inetpro shedding the stupid eskom load again
[15:37] <Kilos> ai!
[15:37] <Kilos> hi theblazehen
[16:13] <gremble> Has something happened with WhatsApp? A lot of strangers switching to Telegram suddenly
[16:17] <rusbus> telegram is great
[16:17] <rusbus> get on it!
[16:18] <gremble> I use it
[16:18] <rusbus> good man.
[16:19] <gremble> I like it because it has a very nice desktop application
[16:19] <rusbus> yes
[16:19] <rusbus> you can get it on any platform
[16:19] <rusbus> doesn't do the dumb proxy thing whatsapp web does
[16:19] <squish102> is it the same as the other million ones?
[16:19] <rusbus> and it's opensource
[16:19] <rusbus> the protocol
[16:19] <squish102> hangouts/skype etc
[16:19] <rusbus> no
[16:19] <gremble> Nah
[16:19] <gremble> lighter
[16:19] <rusbus> different in it's own way
[16:19] <gremble> I like it. Looks very nice
[16:19] <rusbus> prolly better encryption
[16:20] <rusbus> I love them stickers
[16:20] <rusbus> xD
[16:20] <rusbus> many lulz
[16:20] <gremble> Also has a nice encryption protocol
[16:20] <squish102> ohhh, can i buy sticker packs?
[16:20] <inetpro> yes Telegram is really much better than whatsapp
[16:20] <rusbus> free sticker packs
[16:20] <gremble> They're free
[16:20] <gremble> I have no idea how they make money
[16:20] <gremble> :P
[16:20]  * inetpro is back on power again \o/
[16:20] <gremble> Nice
[16:20] <gremble> Also, hello inetpro
[16:21] <rusbus> gremble the one co-founder/owner of VK (russian FB) funds it himself
[16:21] <rusbus> they made MTProto (the protocol) for lulz
[16:21] <Kilos> yay inetpro
[16:22] <gremble> Unless it makes money, it will start doing stupid shit
[16:22] <inetpro> the fact that you need to have the mobile on the network while using Whatsapp on the browser/desktop is absolutely stupid
[16:23] <rusbus> yes ^
[16:23] <rusbus> your phone is a proxy
[16:23] <rusbus> ;c
[16:23] <squish102> never knew why whatsapp got so popular
[16:23] <squish102> other than the privacy thing
[16:26] <gremble> Just one of those things
[16:27] <Kilos> ok so where do you register with telegram or will pidgin sort that side
[16:28] <Kilos> fly told me long ago to get it
[16:28] <gremble> You register with your phone I think
[16:28] <Kilos> ai! again'
[16:29] <squish102> i think i have to try stick to one... line,oovoo,hangouts,sms,skype,whatsapp and facebook messenger
[16:29] <squish102> i think that is all i have on my phone
[16:29] <gremble> Most of those are shit :P
[16:30] <squish102> the one i use the most is probably hangouts because it does sms too
[16:30] <squish102> and for some reason ppl still stick with sms
[16:31] <gremble> I only get smses from the church
[16:37] <solidity> All these IM networks and protocols.
[16:38] <solidity> Would be great if you could just use one, but not everyone is on any particular one.
[16:38] <Kilos> pidgin
[16:39] <gremble> pidgin is not a specific one
[16:39] <Kilos> pidgin can do them all
[16:39] <gremble> Pidgin cannot do xmpp anymore. Google is dropping support for it
[16:39] <Kilos> even telegram i see now
[16:40] <solidity> can't use pidgin on android it seems
[16:40] <Kilos> mine still works, just see it as hangouts now but still with xmpp
[16:40] <gremble> Pidgin is a computer client for protocols
[16:40] <Kilos> oh i thought you meant on pc
[16:40] <solidity> both pc and android
[16:41] <solidity> any network, any protocol, any platform
[16:41] <solidity> the world needs this
[16:43] <squish102> anyone do js, or mongo? doind a beginners course and i am stuck with a stupid update
[16:43] <solidity> I know a bit of js
[16:43] <Kilos> what does this say?
[16:43] <Kilos> https://pidgin.im/pipermail/support/2012-May/025333.html
[16:44] <squish102> so I do the following: var myobj = db.products.find({_id : ObjectId("507d95d5719dbef170f15c00")})
[16:45] <squish102> gives me an object called myobj... now i want to update a field called term_years
[16:45] <squish102> can i not do myobj.term_years = 3
[16:46] <solidity> I'm not familiar with mongo.
[16:47] <solidity> Did you change the object and then update the db with it?
[16:47] <solidity> Or does mongo automatically update when you change the object?
[16:48] <squish102> have not tried to update db yet. just trying to assign a new value to the obj before i update db
[16:48] <solidity> dot notation should work yes
[16:48] <solidity> another way to do it is myobj['term_years'] = 3;
[16:49] <squish102> ok will try tx
[16:49] <solidity> But as long as the property isn't set be immutable(which is the default) you can just assign a new value.
[16:51] <solidity> If you want to double check before you push to the db you use console.log(myobj)
[16:53] <solidity> or console.log(myobj.term_years) actually
[16:54] <solidity> kilos: that links shows an app called IM+, a multiprotocol app, but it only supports one of the networks I use.
[16:55] <Kilos> ok i tried
[16:55] <Kilos> i dont like them android things
[16:56] <Kilos> eish ice again tonight
[16:57] <gremble> double = zipwith ($) (cycle [id, (*2)])
[16:57] <gremble> That is beautiful
[16:57] <gremble> D:
[17:00] <gremble> It doesn't work as expected :(
[17:47] <inetpro> and now?
[17:47]  * inetpro thought they would never stop talking
[17:50] <Kilos> lol
[18:01] <Cryterion> and load shedding starts lol
[19:01] <MaNI> Cryterion, load shedding back?
[19:03] <MaNI> so much for the "no loadshedding this winter" claims ;)
[19:12] <Cryterion> seems like it, dead on schedule to, not a minute late
[19:12] <Cryterion> lappy is now a flatty, may be back later
[20:09] <smile> Hi :)
[20:10] <inetpro> wb smile
[20:11] <smile> Thank you
[20:11] <smile> :)
[20:17] <smile> How are you inetpro
[20:17] <inetpro> all good thanks and you?
[20:18] <smile> Except for money affairs and head aches pretty good
[20:18] <smile> :)
[20:20] <smile> I should find a student job :)
[20:21] <inetpro> take a cold shower, it will save money and is healthy
[20:31] <smile> Not eating will also save money
[20:33] <inetpro> hmm... not healthy
[20:34] <smile> Not paying bills will also save money
[20:34] <smile> :-P
[20:35] <inetpro> ai!
[20:35] <inetpro> you'll get more headaches
[20:36] <smile> Probably :-P
[20:36] <MaNI> until the debt collector comes for you, then it will cost you money :p
[20:36] <smile> I cant give them what I dont have
[20:36] <smile> ;-)
[20:36] <solidity> Give them your headache.
[20:37] <smile> Its not easily transferable :-P
[20:38] <solidity> But not impossible?
[20:38] <melodie> smile you can do it
[20:38] <solidity> Where there's a will there's a headbutt.
[20:38] <melodie> you explain your problems to them and ask them to help you solve
[20:39] <melodie> then they have the headache
[20:39] <melodie> solidity what is a headbutt ?
[20:39] <solidity> "A headbutt is a strike with the head, typically involving the use of robust parts of the cranium as the area of impact. Effective headbutting involves striking a sensitive area of an opponent using the forehead, such as the nose of an opponent."
[20:40] <melodie> aha !
[20:40] <melodie> un coup de tête
[20:40] <melodie> got it
[20:40] <smile> Kopstoot :-P
[20:40] <melodie> cheers
[20:40] <melodie> :p
[20:41] <melodie> I learned a new smiley, it looks like something of the kind:
[20:41] <smile> I found a fancy feature on my irc app jaay
[20:41] <melodie> :-Pd-:
[20:41] <smile> Lol
[20:41] <melodie> guess what it is?
[20:42] <smile> Headbutt
[20:42] <smile> :-P
[20:42] <melodie> no wrong
[20:42] <melodie> it's a French kiss
[20:42] <smile> :-(
[20:42] <smile> I see!
[20:43] <melodie> :D
[20:43] <smile> Tongzoen
[20:43] <smile> :-D
[20:43] <melodie> Tongue zehen?
[20:43] <smile> No. Tongue kiss
[20:43] <smile> Zoen is kiss
[20:44] <melodie> if you say "tongue" in French, it's a flat shoe used on the beach
[20:46] <smile> Slipper in Dutch :-P
[20:47] <melodie> and slipper in English are the shoes for inside the house (chaussons)
[20:47] <melodie> ^_^
[20:49] <smile> The word has two meanings/uses in Dutch. :)
[20:49] <smile> So that word matches both variants
[20:51] <smile> Melodie what technologies are you experienced with? :)
[20:52] <melodie> right now?
[20:52] <melodie> why this question?
[20:53] <smile> Yeah
[20:54] <smile> I want some bugs fixed :-P I can pay for it
[20:54] <melodie> I have rooted my smartphone, but didn't install a cyanogen rom because the android geeks haven't done one for my brand yet
[20:54] <melodie> smile didn't you say you lacked money?
[20:54] <melodie> but maybe this is the bug you want fixed?
[20:55] <smile> Yeah, for now. In two weeks my bank account will be recharged  :)
[20:55] <melodie> how do you do that? \o/
[20:55] <melodie> plain magic? XD
[20:56] <smile> Work hard. Spend all the money you had from before. Wait for the hard  money to come in.
[20:57] <melodie> ok
[20:57] <melodie> what do you need help with?
[20:58] <smile> Wine bugs and LibreOffice bugs
[20:59] <smile> http://hugsmile.eu/tools/bug
[21:00] <melodie> wine has features, the bug is the need of using windows applications.
[21:01] <melodie> concerning LO, you need to talk to the lo devs, at #libreoffice some time
[21:01] <melodie> this is the best advice I can give for LO, that's a free advice
[21:01] <smile> Okay. So you say you are willing to port windirstat to Linux? :-P and notepad++
[21:01] <melodie> concerning wine the problem is the same:
[21:01] <melodie> you need to see at winehq what they can tell you and how they can help
[21:02] <melodie> notepad++ is best replaced with Geany
[21:02] <melodie> what are the features of windirstat ?
[21:02] <MaNI> there is already e.g. filelight
[21:02] <MaNI> which is pretty much the same thing
[21:02] <MaNI> and a few others
[21:02] <solidity> http://alternativeto.net/software/windirstat/?platform=linux
[21:03] <melodie> MaNI +1, and Baobab also does a good job, and isn't big
[21:03] <melodie> filelight has many kde depends I fear?
[21:03] <MaNI> filelight is nicer than windirstat in my opinion, the circular display is more natural
[21:03] <melodie> good link solidity
[21:04] <solidity> alternativeto.net is a pretty handy website
[21:04] <melodie> MaNI I tell you Baobad isn't bad
[21:04] <melodie> but I like filelight a lot too
[21:04] <MaNI> kdirstat  is a more direct clone - it's basically the same thing
[21:04] <MaNI> can't say I've tried boabab ;)
[21:04] <melodie> however I use "du -csh" or "du -cs" in console, and "df" or "df -h"
[21:04] <smile> Kdirstat isnt bad but windirstat on wine is better
[21:05] <melodie> smile ok, bugs for wine should be directed upstream to winehq, really the most relevant place
[21:05] <melodie> http://forum.winehq.org
[21:06] <smile> I know, but they are all reported.. :-P
[21:06] <smile> It just doesnt move
[21:08] <MaNI> boabab does look quite nice
[21:09] <smile> Not in my opinion :-P
[21:10] <smile> The file manager of wine needs a lot of work
[21:11] <smile> I would like to integrate wine more with my system, like using the native browser to open links
[21:11] <melodie> smile why not forget the non free software world and request features to the devs who do free software meant to work in open source distros ?
[21:12] <smile> I do, from time to time
[21:12] <MaNI> nothing wrong with wine improvements, though I suspect the wine developers aren't much interested in that side of things and more on getting as many apps as possible to run
[21:12] <smile> :)
[21:13] <smile> Wine is such a mess
[21:13] <smile> Performance isnt good either
[21:14] <smile> I want autowikibrowser to run on wine, but it doesnt :-(
[21:14] <MaNI> depends what you use it for I guess, I've had apps perform reasonably well in it
[21:15] <smile> Wine startup is slow
[21:17] <MaNI> a little
[21:17] <MaNI> just tried it here - seemed about 6-7 seconds
[21:17] <smile> Thats just too much
[21:17] <solidity> I just run windows. \o/
[21:17] <smile> If you want only run a single app..
[21:18] <smile> Its nice to run windows app inside linux
[21:18] <smile> :)
[21:18] <MaNI> I've seen java apps take longer
[21:18] <smile> Java is non existant
[21:18] <MaNI> booting a VM takes longer
[21:18] <smile> :-P
[21:18] <MaNI> it doesn't seem that terrible :p
[21:18] <melodie> solidity you don't, it is Windows which runs you
[21:18] <solidity> From what you are saying it doesn't sound as nice as running windows apps inside windows :P
[21:18] <smile> Lol
[21:18] <smile> :-P
[21:19] <solidity> melodie: how does windows run me?
[21:19] <smile> I would like a wine preloader to start wine on boot
[21:20] <melodie> solidity ask Windows
[21:20] <smile> That would decrease the waiting time for a single app
[21:20] <melodie> smile ok
[21:20] <melodie> sudo apt-get install prelink
[21:20] <melodie> then:
[21:20] <melodie> sudo -vmR /usr/bin/wine
[21:21] <melodie> once done you need to find the cron job it brings with it, and remove the x bit
[21:21] <smile> What??
[21:21] <melodie> because if you don't
[21:21] <melodie> what ??
[21:21] <melodie> install prelink and configure it as I explain you
[21:22] <smile> Whats vmR
[21:22] <melodie> options
[21:22] <smile> For
[21:22] <melodie> important options
[21:22] <melodie> man prelink will tell you
[21:22] <melodie> the docs on the web say do "-avmR"
[21:22] <melodie> but I don't do "-a"
[21:22] <smile> But you say it are sudo options
[21:23] <solidity> melodie: ok...
[21:23] <melodie> I prelink only a few options
[21:23] <melodie> i mean
[21:23] <melodie> I prelink a few heavy apps only, or it defeats the purpose
[21:23] <melodie> smile I forgot a command, sorry
[21:23] <melodie> you do:
[21:23] <melodie> sudo apt-get install prelink
[21:24] <melodie> then
[21:24] <melodie> sudo prelink -vmR /usr/bin/wine
[21:24] <melodie> make sure /usr/bin/wine is actually an executable elf, or it won't work
[21:24] <melodie> a binary
[21:24] <melodie> once done you tell me and I tell you how to configure it right after that
[21:25] <smile> Okay. Will do. I use arch with systemd, so I dont have cron
[21:26] <melodie> let me check that
[21:27] <melodie> smile why do I have cron.d in Arch ? /media/melodie/arch64/etc/cron.d
[21:27] <melodie> with 0hourly in it?
[21:27] <smile> Hmm
[21:28] <smile> I dont think I have it. Will need to check it
[21:29] <melodie> and $ ls -l cron.hourly/
[21:29] <melodie> total 4
[21:29] <melodie> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 392 nov.  24  2014 0anacron
[21:29] <melodie> also
[21:29] <melodie> smile do "ls -l /etc/cron*"
[21:29] <smile> If the prelink works, you are my hero :)
[21:29] <smile> I cant ssh from a nokia :-P
[21:30] <melodie> you have to be weary that prelink used to be automatically restarted every now and then (2 weeks) and would prelink all possible binaries: this is not good for what you need it to do
[21:30] <melodie> it has to be configured, and you need to check it's configuration file in /etc also
[21:31] <smile> Can i reboot my computer after I have installed it
[21:31] <melodie> no
[21:31] <melodie> you have to configure it
[21:32] <smile> Okay
[21:32] <melodie> see /etc/prelink.conf
[21:32] <smile> Thats all for now
[21:32] <smile> Good night
[21:32] <smile> :)
[21:32] <melodie> ok
[21:32] <melodie> gn smile
[21:33] <smile> Thanks