[00:10] <emgent`nl> heya
[00:12] <nhandler> Hello emgent`nl
[03:05] <bddebian> Why the fsck can I not create an intrepid pbuilder from hardy?
[03:06] <lifeless> have you installed the backported pbuilder?
[03:06] <bddebian> Probably not.  Do I have to?
[03:06] <bddebian> I normally just copy the debootstrap scripts and modify them a little.
[03:06] <lifeless> yes, hardies pbuilder is frozen before intrepid exists
[03:07] <lifeless> well, there are a bunch of deps of debootstrap - any of them being outdated can cause an error
[03:07] <bddebian> Hmm, never done it before between releases.
[03:07] <bddebian> persia: Guess I can't help ya. ;-P
[03:12] <bddebian> Hardy-backports doesn't pick up any newer version
[03:15] <lifeless> well, if the deps are up to date, it might just be something anomalous
[03:17] <persia> bddebian: There's an updated debootstrap in backports.
[03:18] <persia> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/ : look for ~hardy1
[03:18] <persia> If that doesn't work, 1.0.10 can be backported (and maybe should be, considering DeveloperWeek)
[03:20] <bddebian> fricking thing is downloading alien-arena-data at the moment :(
[03:25] <persia> bddebian: Which debootstrap do you have installed?
[03:27] <bddebian> 1.0.8
[03:27] <persia> What arch do you have?
[03:27] <bddebian> i386
[03:27] <persia> Actually, doesn't even matter.  Grab http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_1.0.9~hardy1_all.deb
[03:28] <persia> If that doesn't work, complain, and 1.0.10 can be backported..  Just grab http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_1.0.10.dsc and recompile under hardy.
[03:32] <persia> lifeless: The main issue with debootstrap 1.0.8 is that the release "intrepid" is entirely unknown, rather than dependencies, etc.
[03:32] <bddebian> persia: Aye, which is why I usually just copy and modify
[03:32] <NCommander> persia, I "worked" around the issue by just copying the hardy script to intrepid
[03:32] <NCommander> or just install the old release, and then upgrade it
[03:33] <persia> NCommander: remember, an upgrade (even with do-release-upgrade) doesn't leave the system in the same state as an install.
[03:34] <lifeless> persia: you can use the result though to do a clean debootstrap :P
[03:34] <persia> bddebian: As NCommander points out, it's always possible to create a hardy chroot, log in, and upgrade it.  Not 100% clean, but likely fine for most build tests.
[03:34] <persia> lifeless: Indeed :)
[03:35] <NCommander> persia, you going to be around for a little bit
[03:35] <persia> Actually, one can probably do pbuilder --login (which doesn't save by default), upgrade, create a new pbuilder chroot, save that, and then throw away the dirty upgrade.
[03:36] <persia> NCommander: For a while, I expect.
[03:45]  * NCommander loads a trap with ScottK bait
[03:45] <bddebian> Heh
[03:46] <NCommander> Shhh, I'm hunting Kitterman's
[03:47] <StevenK> Be wevy wevy qwiet?
[03:47] <NCommander> Yup, its ScottK season
[03:48] <NCommander> hehehehhee
[03:49] <StevenK> ITYM Elmer
[03:50] <NCommander> I best kill this joke right now, or else its going to get into a GPL/LGPL season joke
[03:50] <bddebian> heh
[03:50] <bddebian> Its BSD season!
[03:50] <NCommander> Netcraft confirms it! BSD is Dead!
[03:50] <bddebian> heh
[03:51] <NCommander> !meme
[03:51] <NCommander> I was expecting something about overused poorly written memes :-/
[03:51] <NCommander> ubottu needs an upgrade
[03:51] <NCommander> Or an AI
[03:52] <StevenK> NCommander: http://www.google.com/intl/xx-elmer/
[03:52] <NCommander> o_o;
[03:53] <NCommander> Well, if that isn't fud, I don't know what is :-)
[03:53]  * NCommander is enjoying these bad puns
[03:53] <StevenK> Booo, hiss!
[03:54] <NCommander> #ubuntu-fudd - when Ubuntu and Looney Toons cross :-)
[03:55]  * StevenK looks for NCommander's latitude and longitude for an ICBM
[03:55] <NCommander> StevenK, they say the brilliant are insane. Maybe the inverse is true.
[03:56] <NCommander> Since I'm insane, maybe I can back into brilliance
[03:56] <bddebian> Heh, let me know how that works out eh? :-)
[03:57] <NCommander> Well, lets put it another way. They say those who like pain are crazy.
[03:57] <NCommander> I like to program in x86 real mode ASM (ah, the DOS days)
[03:57] <NCommander> Thus I like pain, and those who like pain are crazy
[03:57] <NCommander> Thus I'm crazy
[03:57] <NCommander> QED
[04:07] <NCommander> .... you know, I have that scary thought those last five lines of IRC transcript are going to be (b)logged somewhere, and come back to hurt me when I apply for a tech job
[04:09] <bddebian> heh
[04:12]  * ajmitch wanders over to bash.org
[04:16] <coppro> bash is back up?
[04:16] <coppro> sweet!
[04:16] <coppro> aw, nope :(
[04:17] <jdong> new azureus looks good.... less vuze junk comin soon :)
[04:21] <NCommander> Wooo, saved from being logged
[04:21] <bddebian> This is where pbuilder keeps choking: http://paste.debian.net/16359/
[04:23] <NCommander> bddebian, er, why don't you simply copy the hardy script to intrepid
[04:23] <NCommander> It works fine
[04:23] <NCommander> (you get an intrepid chroot)
[04:23] <bddebian> d00d, that is where I started from
[04:23] <NCommander> I never had any issues, I just did that yesterday on PowerPC
[04:24] <bddebian> Neither have I in the past
[04:32] <persia> bddebian: Try purging aptitude before upgrading.  aptitude isn't installed by default for intrepid.
[04:33] <persia> slangasek: Yes, libjna-java did get test built.  I don't know why it worked for me, and not in the archives yet.    I thought you were upgrading from hardy.  If you're creating it from scratch, I'm not sure how it could get in a state to do that.
[04:37] <persia> Does debootstrap work by itself against some arbitrary directory?  Is this a pbuilder-specific issue?
[04:48] <mneptok> persia: ohaiyo
[04:50] <persia> mneptok: 今日は
[04:51] <mneptok> mmm! noodles!
[04:51] <mneptok> persia: how goes the struggle?
[04:52] <ajmitch> bddebian: using some odd pbuilderrc?
[04:53] <persia> mneptok: It rained.
[04:53] <mneptok> persia: i leave for Albuquerque tomorrow. feel free to tag along.
[04:53]  * ajmitch tries to setup an intrepid pbuilder on the laptop
[04:54] <persia> heh
[04:55]  * NCommander is bootstrapping Ubuntu from source from Gentoo
[04:55] <NCommander> We have officially left the horizon of sanity
[04:55] <ajmitch> begone, heathen
[04:56] <NCommander> ajmitch, I'm doing it from an amd64 gentoo box
[04:56] <NCommander> ;-)
[04:56] <bddebian> ajmitch: Same one I've been using since Dapper I think :)
[04:56] <ajmitch> bddebian: that may be an issue
[04:56] <ajmitch> The following NEW packages will be installed: aptitude binutils build-essential ccache cpp cpp-4.3 dpkg-dev g++ g++-4.3 gcc gcc-4.3 libc6-dev
[04:56] <ajmitch> ...
[04:56] <ajmitch> so something is dragging it in for me
[04:57] <ajmitch> bddebian: apart from that, it configured without any problems
[04:58] <persia> NCommander: You do know there are liveCDs, right?
[04:58] <NCommander> persia, not for what I'm doing
[04:59] <persia> NCommander: Yes.  That is *why* there are liveCDs :P
[05:00] <NCommander> I'm rebuilding the archive with the PIE flag done
[05:00] <NCommander> *on
[05:26] <Light-> Does MOTU only Ubuntu-ise Debian packages, or do they also make Ubuntu packages from source (in cases where there is no Debian version available to Ubuntu-ise)?
[05:28] <foxbuntu> Light-, MOTU, is package administrators developers submit code to revu for MOTUs to review its up to snuff
[05:30] <ScottK> Light-: We do both.  Generally we like to use the Debian packages unmodified and would prefer to pass fixes and improvements back to Debian.
[05:30] <Light-> so... MOTU's only review submitted packages?
[05:30] <Light-> ohk
[05:30] <ScottK> No, we also package stuff too.
[05:35] <persia> Light-: Essentially, MOTU are responsible for about 12,000 packages, so wherever we can find ways to reduce the workload, we tend to be in favour.  Getting packages into Debian, and getting bugfixes upstreams are two ways we do that.
[05:38] <Light-> When you speak of bugfixes... are you referring to bugs in the package and not in the program?
[05:39] <persia> Light-: Both.
[05:39] <persia> Where we can, we push package bugfixes to Debian (although there are a number of package bugfixes that are unique to Ubuntu), and we tend to push bugfixes for programs to both Debian and the program developers directly.
[05:40] <Light-> oh I see
[05:43] <persia> As long as we've not been successful in pushing the bugfixes upstream, we have to maintain the patches and port them to successive upstream releases, which is a lot of busywork, and does little to contribute to the overall quality of Ubuntu.
[05:43] <persia> (not merging is bad, but not having to merge is ideal)
[05:48] <ApOgEE-> hi all
[05:50] <cody-somerville> Hiya
[07:54] <AnAnt> doko: ping
[07:57] <dholbach> good morning
[08:04] <highvoltage> morning dholbach
[08:04] <highvoltage> how is udw going?
[08:04] <dholbach> highvoltage: very very well
[08:04] <dholbach> lots of clever people, lots of excitement, lots of energy, lots of fun :)
[08:04] <dholbach> I'm very excited
[08:04] <iulian> Morning
[08:04] <dholbach> hi iulian
[08:05] <dholbach> iulian: what happened to "Iulian"?
[08:05] <iulian> Hiya Daniel
[08:05] <iulian> dholbach: Changed it because people used to call me lulian ;)
[08:05] <dholbach> haha, ok :)
[08:14] <highvoltage> dholbach: excellent. I wish I could get involved, but I'm under a bit of strain at work this week
[08:14] <highvoltage> dholbach: I'm glad it's going good though, it means that it will probably happen again :)
[08:14] <dholbach> highvoltage: yeah, I'd think so :-)
[08:14] <dholbach> highvoltage: luckily the scribes team has put up logs of the sessions
[08:15] <highvoltage> cool.
[08:21] <NCommander> hey dholbach
[08:22] <geser> good morning
[08:22] <NCommander> hey geser
[08:22] <geser> Hi NCommander
[08:22] <NCommander> geser, how goes your  morning?
[08:22] <dholbach> hi NCommander, hi geser
[08:23]  * NCommander works on bootstrapping Ubuntu
[08:23] <gnomefreak> anyone know if we added/removed support for "intex rtl8139D" nic
[08:23] <geser> Hi dholbach
[08:23] <dholbach> gnomefreak: I'd ask in #ubuntu-kernel
[08:23]  * dholbach doesn't know
[08:24] <gnomefreak> thanks dholbach i was thinking about asking there but noone is talking so i figured id try here first
[08:25] <dholbach> gnomefreak: yeah... it might be that they're all asleep - did you try #ubuntu-devel?
[08:25] <gnomefreak> dholbach: no not yet
[08:25] <dholbach> ok
[09:07] <huats> morning everyone
[09:14] <didrocks> morning o/
[09:15] <huats> hey didrocks :)
[09:16] <didrocks> huats \o/
[10:02] <jpds> How does one easily rm .la files from debian/rules? (CDBS).
[10:06] <cody-somerville> find
[10:07] <jpds> But which make target? I've tried post-install::.
[10:21] <james_w> directhex: Hey. MIR is approved, do we sync now then?
[10:21] <directhex> james_w, unless you have any objections, i'd say definitely
[10:21] <james_w> directhex: cool, I'm away for the weekend, so it may be next week that I get to it.
[10:22] <directhex> as long as intrepid ships with a fully 1.9.1 stack, i'm not fussed about when precisely ;)
[11:05] <geser> I'm correct that requests for sponsoring a merge filed before FF now also need a FFe if they are for a new upstream version?
[11:17] <directhex> geser, i've been told both yes and no. YMMV.
[11:20] <DktrKranz> geser: new upstream version doesn't always mean a FFe is required. If sponsors think new upstream is only for bugfixes (and it's clearly so), they can proceed stating new upstream is for bugfix only.
[12:26] <cbx333> man I'm ticked off at #ubuntu
[12:28] <persia> cbx333: Then fix it :)
[12:28] <Pici> cbx333: Whats up?
[12:28] <cbx333> annoying zealots
[12:28] <cbx333> I was asking advice on my slow graphics response
[12:28] <cbx333> and was told that I was very slow, for not being able to grasp a simple question
[12:29] <highvoltage> cbx333: ouch
[12:29] <cbx333> yeh ouch indeed
[12:29] <cbx333> it's unacceptable
[12:29] <highvoltage> the person who did that should be reminded that the ubuntu CoC applies to the ubuntu irc channels
[12:29] <cbx333> this is for some people the first place they touch base
[12:29] <cbx333> indeed
[12:29] <Pici> cbx333: I just got on, but I see it in my logs here, we'll take care of it.
[12:29] <cbx333> I looked at the CoC
[12:29] <Pici> <- #ubuntu op
[12:29] <cbx333> Pici, thank you
[12:29] <cbx333> Pici, ok awesome
[12:30] <cbx333> As an ubuntu MOTU and a dev in the past....I was utterly insulted
[12:30] <cbx333> hey highvoltage....howz it going any how
[12:30] <highvoltage> cbx333: there is a small minority of people that make it unpleasant that constatnly have to be pruned back. I guess it's just the anture of things
[12:31] <highvoltage> cbx333: going well thanks. read your recent blog entries, glad to see that it's going good your side still
[12:31] <cbx333> Pici, also seek out "don't you get the point? or are you just being stubborn for the sake of it?"
[12:31] <cbx333> haha cool
[12:31] <persia> cbx333: You're *still* MOTU (for another three weeks or so, or if you renew)
[12:31] <cbx333> yeh things are going good
[12:31] <highvoltage> (and that you're managing giving atention to your kid)
[12:31] <cbx333> just don't have all the time to do all that I used to
[12:31] <ajmitch> cbx333: hey
[12:31] <Pici> cbx333: Things like this anger me quite a bit, don't worry, I'll get to the bottom of it.
[12:31] <cbx333> persia, I'd like to review
[12:31] <cbx333> thanks Pici
[12:32] <cbx333> hey ajmitch
[12:32] <cbx333> persia, think I'll be allowed?
[12:32] <persia> cbx333: You ought get the reminder mail in a week to 10 days.
[12:32] <cbx333> ok
[12:32] <cbx333> awesome
[12:32] <ajmitch> persia: I let my membership for that one lapse
[12:32] <cbx333> oh man I've missed it in here
[12:32] <ajmitch> heh
[12:32] <cbx333> so many friends that I don't have gmail accounts for :p
[12:32] <persia> cbx333: The practice has been to let people self-renew, and only ask for a declaration of intent if they miss the deadline.  No reason you're special in that regard.
[12:32] <cbx333> :)
[12:32] <ajmitch> of course he's special ;)
[12:32] <cbx333> cool cool
[12:33] <cbx333> ha ha
[12:33] <cbx333> so how are you ajmitch?
[12:33] <cbx333> man work is getting tough now
[12:33] <ajmitch> alright, busy enough
[12:33] <cbx333> got a week off
[12:33] <cbx333> phew
[12:33] <ajmitch> from the look of things, you're busy as well?
[12:33] <ajmitch> nice
[12:33] <cbx333> yeh man
[12:33] <cbx333> the company I went to work for got bought out by Atmel a while back
[12:33] <cbx333> so....I now work for Atmel
[12:33] <cbx333> as an IT manager
[12:34] <ajmitch> interesting
[12:34] <cbx333> which is ..... a lot of fun
[12:34] <persia> ajmitch: You're still Core Dev, but you're likely welcome back to MOTU fairly easily, by poking MC by mail (if you care).
[12:34] <cbx333> so howz Intrepid coming along?
[12:34] <ajmitch> persia: I renewed core dev last week, as it was my last hold on both upload rights & membership :)
[12:34] <ajmitch> so I can still upload to universe & main if needed
[12:35] <cbx333> I was after core dev...but never quite got there
[12:35] <cbx333> and now just wouldn't have the time
[12:36]  * ajmitch would be reluctant to dive back into uploading without a thorough review of what's changed
[12:36] <cbx333> totally
[12:37] <persia> Unfortunately, it's still true that nobody put that document together.
[12:37] <ajmitch> which one?
[12:37]  * ajmitch has been following the mailing lists, at least
[12:37] <persia> The "We're sorry life took you away, but here's what you need to get caught up and get uploading again" document.
[12:37] <cbx333> hehehe
[12:38] <cbx333> I'm just sorry I never managed to get Geyser off the ground
[12:38] <ajmitch> heh
[12:38] <cbx333> I really wanted to do that project
[12:38] <persia> I've seen requests for it since Dapper, but it's one of those things that never gets written.  I know I wanted to read it in feisty (as I missed edgy).
[12:38] <cbx333> are my sounds still in Intrepid?
[12:38]  * ajmitch has had to do some package mangling recently at work, setting up pbuilder again & backporting
[12:38] <cbx333> ouch
[12:39] <cbx333> Pici, are there any "official" support people
[12:39] <ajmitch> I was trying to backport stuff from lenny to etch, in the end gave up & upgraded the whole box to lenny :)
[12:39] <cbx333> hehe
[12:39] <ajmitch> had to backport subversion 1.5 to hardy for my personal use
[12:39] <persia> I thought a couple people already backported subversion 1.5
[12:40] <ajmitch> yeah, when I looked at the bug, ScottK said he just had to put a package together
[12:40] <ajmitch> the few changes were just java related
[12:44] <leleobhz> someone here can help-me to compile a very old program?
[12:45] <leleobhz> help page say it compile in kernel 2.0.x
[12:45] <cbx333> right I'm off
[12:45] <leleobhz> (but the programm dont use anything directly linked with kernel)
[12:45] <cbx333> thanks again Pici
[12:45] <Pici> cbx333: yep, cyas.
[12:45] <cbx333> really rubbed me up the wrong way today
[12:46] <directhex> leleobhz, for making an ubuntu package?
[12:46] <leleobhz> directhex: its a intent
[12:46] <leleobhz> but i cant even compile the application
[12:46] <directhex> what app?
[12:46] <leleobhz> directhex: http://www.sai.msu.su/sal/Z/3/WAVES+.html
[12:47] <persia> leleobhz: What errors do you get trying to build?
[12:47] <leleobhz> this app is now behind a BSD licence
[12:47] <directhex> HPC apps are, by and large, absolutely terrible
[12:47] <leleobhz> persia: a lot really.. let me see if ive saved the output here
[12:47] <directhex> i mean shockingly bad
[12:48] <directhex> also, i see no link to source. where is there source?
[12:48] <leleobhz> no... ive removed the file..
[12:48] <leleobhz> directhex: well, the original version is here: http://www.speech.kth.se/speech/esps/esps.zip
[12:49] <leleobhz> have another link from a modified install script
[12:49] <jmehdi> could someone review my package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=webstrict ?
[12:49] <directhex> sigh, no build system. i sorta expect it for scientific software these days
[12:49] <leleobhz> that "appear" to support fedora...
[12:50] <leleobhz> directhex: this app is *VERY* old
[12:50] <leleobhz> and unmantained since 2001 i think
[12:52] <leleobhz> directhex: this is the another link: http://ldc.upenn.edu/software/esps60.3.linmac.src.tgz
[12:52] <leleobhz> directhex: have some text about here: http://www.corpus4u.org/showthread.php?t=2454
[12:56] <leleobhz> directhex: ill compile again to get the erros
[12:56] <leleobhz> *errors
[12:59] <directhex> this is gonna take MAJOR hacking work in debian/rules
[12:59] <leleobhz> directhex: i need only to find a way to compile it in ubuntu
[12:59] <leleobhz> patches is another thing :]
[12:59] <directhex> there's a LOT of hard-coded nonsense
[13:00] <leleobhz> yeap
[13:02] <leleobhz> directhex: how can i redirect both stdout and stderr to a file?
[13:03] <directhex> 2>&1 > filename.foo
[13:03] <directhex> or, apparently, just &>
[13:06] <leleobhz> directhex: ill use fakeroot to run these scripts... i get a lot of file i can remove after try compile
[13:08] <leleobhz> directhex: im compiling in ubuntu and ill paste the errors when its done
[13:09] <leleobhz> but have a lot of:
[13:09] <leleobhz> lpcfloat.c: Na função ‘get_window’:
[13:09] <leleobhz> lpcfloat.c:112: aviso: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function ‘malloc’
[13:09] <leleobhz> for example
[13:09] <directhex> never assume you're pasting the right thing
[13:09] <directhex> pastebin it all, or not at all
[13:11] <leleobhz> leleobhz@zorg:~/TRABALHO/DEVELOPMENT/SETFON/SVN/setfon/trunk/high_experimental/esps/ESPS/general$ ./ESPS_INSTALL &> /home/leleobhz/esps.err.inst
[13:11] <leleobhz> leleobhz@zorg:~/TRABALHO/DEVELOPMENT/SETFON/SVN/setfon/trunk/high_experimental/esps/ESPS/general$ ls -lah /home/leleobhz/esps.err.inst
[13:11] <leleobhz> -rw-r--r-- 1 leleobhz leleobhz 6,7M 2008-09-04 09:09 /home/leleobhz/esps.err.inst
[13:12] <leleobhz> 6.7M only for out & errors :]
[13:12] <leleobhz> directhex: can i paste it on filebin?
[13:12] <directhex> oh god. yeah, whatever
[13:13] <leleobhz> directhex: this is from ./SETUP: http://pastebin.com/f5c2034e7
[13:15] <leleobhz> directhex: http://filebin.ca/txbbtg/esps.err.inst
[13:23] <directhex> leleobhz, install flex-old
[14:12] <ScottK> Here's a thought: Now that clamav is in Main, deactivate myself from core-dev so I CAN'T maintain it anymore ...
[14:13] <laga> you could post patches and someone else will sponsor them
[14:20] <leleobhz> directhex: /usr/esps/include/xview/window.h:430: erro: expected declaration specifiers or ‘...’ before ‘XClientMessageEvent’
[14:20] <leleobhz> /usr/esps/include/xview/window.h:432: erro: expected ‘=’, ‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘win_pointer_under’
[14:21] <directhex> try using gcc-3.4 instead of 4.whatever?
[14:21] <leleobhz> ok
[14:25] <ScottK> laga: That's the flaw in my plan.
[14:25] <leleobhz> directhex: more erros
[14:25] <leleobhz> errors
[14:26] <directhex> you know this software is just badly written, yeah?
[14:26] <leleobhz> http://paste.milk-it.net/922
[14:27] <leleobhz> directhex: i think its too old to be built in newer compilation systems
[14:27] <leleobhz> anyway, the best alternative for this app really sucks more (and is the prefered)
[14:28] <directhex> that's with flex-old or flex?
[14:28] <leleobhz> felx-old
[14:28] <directhex> switch around which you use
[14:28] <leleobhz> err
[14:28] <leleobhz> leleobhz@zorg:~/TRABALHO/DEVELOPMENT/SETFON/SVN/setfon/trunk/high_experimental/esps/ESPS/general$ ls -lah /usr/bin/yacc /etc/alternatives/yacc
[14:28] <leleobhz> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 19 2008-08-29 16:35 /etc/alternatives/yacc -> /usr/bin/bison.yacc
[14:29] <leleobhz> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 2008-08-29 16:16 /usr/bin/yacc -> /etc/alternatives/yacc
[14:29] <directhex> right, so?
[14:29] <leleobhz> cannot be a bison problem?
[14:30] <directhex> maybe. but it might also be a flex problem
[14:30] <leleobhz> hmmm
[14:30] <directhex> and i've had more problems with flex breaking on different apps than bison, where both are used together
[14:30] <leleobhz> pi  flex                                       - A fast lexical analyzer generator.
[14:31] <leleobhz> iB  flex-old                                   - The old version of the fast lexical analyzer generato
[14:31] <leleobhz> directhex: hmmm
[15:08] <nxvl> uhgr my mouse is not automatically detected when i plug it
[15:16] <Mathiasdm> are there any guides for packaging java ant packages?
[15:33] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:35] <geser> Hi bddebian
[15:36] <bddebian> Heya geser
[16:52] <sebner> ScottK: promoted to main \o/
[17:38] <liw> would anyone be interested in reviewing my two packages in REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=python-fstab and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=system-cleaner are the relevant pages; the python-fstab package is needed by the system-cleaner package
[17:38] <liw> the system-cleaner package will hopefully be a really cool tool for keeping a system clean from all sorts of cruft, even for people who keep upgrading them during development or from release to release
[17:39] <persia> liw: How does system-cleaner compare to the cruft utility?
[17:40] <liw> persia, it's not restricted to packages, for example it adds the "relatime" option to fstab; it also has a GUI
[17:42] <persia> Oh, so it keeps all the miscellaneous configuration changes up-to-date, even though it's not a fresh install?
[17:43] <liw> that's the idea, yes
[17:50]  * persia watches the joins/parts for a python packager who can check these packages, as they sound nifty
[17:51] <ScottK> liw: What's the compelling rationale for a Feature Freeze exception for Intrepid for this?
[17:51] <ScottK> There are lots of people who still want packages in, but it's generally too late.  Why should these be special?
[17:52] <sebner> persia: system cleaner O_o
[17:53] <liw> ScottK, that's a good question, I'm not sure I have an immediate answer, actually
[17:54] <liw> which means I suck, of course
[17:54] <ScottK> liw: Fair enough.  I suggest that's probably the first thing to get worked out.  Note you can't get an actual FFe until you have a reviewed package, but some early discussion with motu-release to see if it's worth doing now would probably be a good thing.
[17:54] <liw> however, a review would still be very much appreciated
[18:01] <NCommander> morning ScottK
[18:01] <sebner> liw: try to get it into Debian and with intrepid +1 we get it automatically
[18:03] <persia> sebner: Well, it's kinda Ubuntu-specific, no?  It cleans up leftover Ubuntu cruft.
[18:05] <ogra> liw, i thought relatime was hardcoded in kernel now ? why do you need it in fstab
[18:05] <liw> I'm going to upload it to Debian, too (obviously, since I'm a DD), but Debian is in hard freeze, and I'm not going to bother Debian with this until after they release lenny; however, it might be good for Ubuntu to get this into intrepid so that cruft build-up can be reduced from intrepid already, and not from intrepid+1
[18:05] <liw> ogra, is it? I didn't know that (and I would be surprised, since it changes filesystem semantics)
[18:06] <ogra> i see it all over my classmates where i use noatime in fstab by default ... so cat /proc/mounts looks a bit messy on them
[18:06] <sebner> persia: is it reallly useful or is like all the >1000 windows tools?
[18:06] <ogra> showing noatime,relatime
[18:06] <liw> ogra, hmm
[18:07] <persia> liw: It cleans all cruft, not just Ubuntu cruft?
[18:07] <ogra> but i see relatime in my fstab on the normal intrepid lappie ... not sure how it got there
[18:07] <ogra> and in /proc/mounts as well
[18:08] <liw> persia, it has a plugin arch, and when I upload it for Debian, it will handle Debian cruft as well as Ubuntu
[18:08] <liw> ogra, could it be specific to the lpia kernel?
[18:08] <persia> Ah.
[18:08] <ogra> liw, nope, celeron classmates here
[18:08] <ogra> not using lpia
[18:09] <liw> persia, however, certainly some of the tweaks are going to be system specific
[18:09] <persia> Obviously, as both the upgrade paths and specific cruft may differ.
[18:10] <ogra> but the kernel changelog doesnt talk about relatime so maybe i misremember
[18:10] <ogra> and mount only talks about having it added to the manpage n its changelog
[18:11]  * ogra quickly rushes to the shop ... forgot to buy catfood
[18:11] <laga> ah, another cat lover
[18:30] <kees> can a motu-council member please change the universe-contributors emblem to this one, which has transparency: http://outflux.net/wrench_emblem-trans.png
[18:31] <siretart> Lutin: could you please take a look at the mlt package? it currently FTBFS in intrepid, and it seems you touched the package last. I suspect that we need a new upstream version because of newer ffmpeg, but I'm not familiar with mlt at all
[18:33] <siretart> Lutin: same for kdenlive
[18:35] <Lutin> siretart: I know, and this is long overdue. however, I don't have the time needed to do that for the moment
[18:35] <persia> kees: Working on it.  Thanks for the submission.
[18:36] <Lutin> siretart: but I'd bet the FTBFS is related to missing headers // gcc-4.3
[18:37] <persia> kees: Does that look better to you?
[18:37] <siretart> Lutin: filed bug #264790 with full buildlog
[18:37] <siretart> and bug #264613 for mlt
[18:38] <Lutin> gcc-4.3-related for mlt
[18:39] <siretart> Lutin: there is a new upstream for this on debian-multimedia.org. I suspect that a merge would fix that
[18:40] <Lutin> I think so, but I fear I won't have much time
[18:40] <siretart> same here
[18:40] <siretart> anyone else willing to give it a shot? just grad the mentioned bugs!
[18:41] <sebner> siretart: just merging (though I won't have time until weekend)
[18:42] <siretart> sebner: I reckon that would be it. and I think it would fix a number of other bugs in launchpad with it
[18:43] <kees> persia: yea, that looks great, thanks!
[18:43] <sebner> siretart: kk, like I said. I'd do it but no before weekend :(
[18:43] <persia> kees: Now, how can you tell?  I don't see any difference on my user page.
[18:44] <kees> persia: when it's displayed on a non-white background (for example, with the greasemonkey script "karma_suffix"), it's very clear.
[18:44] <Lutin> sebner: mlt and mlt++ are both in debian now, you might want to have a look at it (and possibly ask fabo about it)
[18:45] <persia> Ah.  greasemonkey.
[18:45] <kees> persia: (yay bzr URLs) http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Egm-dev-launchpad/launchpad-gm-scripts/master/download/brian%40canonical.com-20080902180527-ailnday1yom5lppx/lp_karma_suffix.png-20080902174541-ccz35l22h5b1y54p-1/lp_karma_suffix.png?file_id=screenshots-20080902165617-0p38lk8fk43a7cxf-1
[18:46] <ScottK> NCommander: Heya.
[18:46] <sebner> siretart: Lutin : Wait! Are we talking about kdenlive or mlt? ^^
[18:46] <persia> kees: Interesting.  I suppose it gets cluttered as people belong to a sufficiency of teams, or does it filter only "interesting" teams?
[18:46] <Lutin> sebner: mlt
[18:47] <kees> persia: it filters only to "interesting" teams.
[18:47] <NCommander> How goes it ScottK ?
[18:47] <persia> Hrm.  All sorts of use for that.
[18:47] <Lutin> sebner: well actually - they all go together. you very very likely won't be able to compile a recent kdenlive with the mlt in the archive
[18:47] <ScottK> Sick kid home from school, but other than that, pretty normal.
[18:47]  * NCommander hits the toolchain
[18:48] <sebner> Lutin: ^^, buh mlt was never merged before. Resync again or a pure merge?
[18:49] <siretart> sebner: answering that question is part of the task ;)
[18:49] <Lutin> yup
[18:49] <siretart> sebner: feel free to upload to the motumedia PPA to test it
[18:49] <Lutin> away, will be back in a couple hours
[18:49] <sebner> siretart: bah /me hides :P
[18:52] <sebner> siretart: but don't expect anything before saturday/sunday :\
[19:02] <sebner> Lutin: ha! at least debian version of mlt is building :D but more on weekend ^^
[19:05] <NCommander> Why does binutils brak with hardening wrapper O_O;
[19:19] <emgent`nl> good evening
[19:20] <sebner> emgent`nl: \o/
[19:20] <emgent`nl> hey, hey hey
[19:21] <devfil> emgent`nl, sebner: hi
[19:21] <sebner> devfil: :)
[19:59] <stefanlsd> hi emgent :)
[20:18] <zoeken> hello
[20:19] <zoeken> i am new to MOTU community
[20:19] <ScottK> Hello zoeken.
[20:20] <zoeken> i want to contribute to ubuntu,what should i do?
[20:20] <zoeken> hello ScottK
[20:21] <ScottK> zoeken: It boils down to what do you want to do and what experience do you have.  We can advise you, but as a volunteer, you should try to follow your interests.
[20:21] <sebner> !MOTU | zoeken
[20:23] <zoeken> thank you
[20:23] <sebner> :)
[20:24] <sebner> ScottK: happy now since MIr was successful=
[20:24] <ScottK> Well I still have to add it to the server seed so it gets on the CD, and that means I have to use bzr.
[20:25] <sebner> ScottK: brrr, bzw :P don't worry too much. It got accepted. That's a big step forward =)
[20:26] <ScottK> Yes.
[20:26]  * sebner can see how ScottK jumps up and down ^^
[20:27] <ScottK> sebner: I'm WAY too old to jump up and down.
[20:27] <DktrKranz> ScottK, alias bzr to svn and do the job, IIRC commands are the same for both
[20:27] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Yes, well that's how I generally manage it.
[20:27] <sebner> DktrKranz: ha! you approved my FFe's :P
[20:28] <DktrKranz> sebner, one... it's 250 euros, you know
[20:28] <sebner> DktrKranz: not 2=
[20:28] <sebner> ?
[20:28] <DktrKranz> two... so it's 500
[20:28] <iulian> Yikes!
[20:28] <sebner> OWNED
[20:29]  * DktrKranz is happy to finally see seahorse-plugins in NEW
[20:37] <leonel> ScottK: once python-django 1.0  gets in intrepid .. we can do a backport to hardy  right ??
[20:38] <ScottK> Sure.  If someone asks for it and does the testing.  I'm still waiting for test reports for 1.0 on Intrepid for the FFe.
[20:41] <laga> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mythtv-theme-metallurgy-wide - can someone pretty please ACK my package? i'd need it go into intrepid for mythbuntu.
[20:44] <ScottK> laga: Did superm1 approve an FFe for it?
[20:44] <laga> ScottK: yeah.
[20:44] <laga> someone from motu-release also said it was OK
[20:44] <laga> and it's artwork anyways. ;)
[20:45] <superm1> i suppose i didn't on the bug, just in IRC, so let me add my ack to the bug
[20:45] <ScottK> He's got delegated authority for mythbuntu stuff anyway.  I'd suggest it's worth mentioning that in a comment.
[20:45] <superm1> there we  go
[20:45] <superm1> bug 236242
[20:45] <ScottK> That too.
[20:45] <superm1> hmm
[20:45] <superm1> that's not it
[20:45] <superm1> bug 263242
[20:46] <ScottK> superm1: Make it confirmed too.
[20:46] <laga> i wasn't sure about the workflow. the FFe wiki page for new packages seemed to suggest that i need to get it ACKed on REVU first before getting the FFe ACKed formally on LP.
[20:47] <ScottK> Normally that's the case, but superm1 is welcome to deviate if it works for him.
[20:47] <geser> laga: on the other hand you will have it hard to find someone to review it without a FFe, so you need to do it in parallel
[20:48] <ScottK> In this case, it makes it clear that a package review at this point is a useful thing to do.
[20:48] <laga> hum, yes.
[20:48] <laga> bureaucracy is complicated. :)
[21:26] <laga> i find it fascinating that people constantly ask me whether i got a FFe or not, but nobody actually reviews my stuff. but i'll be back tomorrow ;)
[21:28] <geser> laga: it's just because the want to know if they need an other excuse for not reviewing your package :)
[21:28] <laga> you bet ;)
[21:30] <laga> i even offered cat pictures. i'll have a new incentive tomorrow.
[21:31] <geser> laga: like the ones on http://lolcats.com/?
[21:32] <laga> no, i've got two cats.
[21:32] <laga> ;)
[21:32] <directhex> you should have chinchillas. they're fuzzier
[21:33] <laga> i'm thinking about getting a maine coon
[21:33] <laga> they're very big
[21:39] <fabrice_sp> Hi. I'm having a look at bug #262173, and as the 'wrong' dependency comes from debian, what should I do next?
[21:46] <DktrKranz> mok0, http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=intrepid&package=theseus reveals it has some unmet dependencies. Do you plan to have a look at it?
[21:57] <mok0> DktrKranz: yes
[21:57] <DktrKranz> nice :)
[21:58] <mok0> DktrKranz: ah, it's a change concerning atlas3-base-dev
[22:44] <POX_> fabrice_sp__: for #262173 - ask for a sync with Debian of javascript-common package
[22:55] <DktrKranz> mok0, thanks for theseus :)
[23:03] <mok0> DktrKranz: you're welcome :-)
[23:04] <mok0> Hmm, some of them failed
[23:06] <mok0> Weird
[23:08] <leonel> ScottK:   for backport django  to hardy  we need  python-sphinx  and libjs-jquery    all these 3  builds and installs fine in hardy from intrepid  well django from debian unstable ..
[23:10] <ScottK> leonel: OK.  Should be doable.  First I need people to fille out all the wanted info on the FFe to get it into Intrepid.
[23:12] <mok0> Anyone recognize this gfortran/libatlas-base linking error? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/43478/
[23:12] <leonel> ScottK: ok
[23:13] <mok0> Compiles under x86_64 but not i386
[23:13] <ScottK> mok0: Does theseus need an SRU for Hardy too?
[23:14] <mok0> ScottK: I don't think so... this is a gfortran transition issue
[23:14] <mok0> ScottK: we still have g77 in hardy
[23:14] <ScottK> Ah.  OK.
[23:14] <ScottK> Nevermind me.
[23:15] <mok0> ScottK: but are you aware of libatlas troubles in ii?
[23:15] <mok0> Perhaps I should ping norsetto
[23:16] <ScottK> No.  Just thinking it might be needed.
[23:20] <albert23> mok0: that's probably because atlas is ftbfs on i386, but successfully built on amd64
[23:21] <mok0> albert23: I suspect you are right
[23:29] <directhex> what use is gcc-compiled atlas?
[23:39] <slangasek> as opposed to what?
[23:39] <azeem> hand-optimized assembler
[23:39] <azeem> know your cache sizes!
[23:42] <frith> when building a package, how can i turn off the tests that are performed?
[23:43] <azeem> frith: is it your package?
[23:43] <mok0> directhex: what do you mean?
[23:43] <azeem> frith: otherwise, try to export  DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck
[23:43] <directhex> i guess i don't really see who ATLAS is for
[23:44] <frith> openldap 2.4.11
[23:44] <directhex> openldap uses BLAS?
[23:44] <mok0> directhex: it's a linear algebra library, highly optimized
[23:45] <frith> BLAS ?
[23:45] <mok0> directhex: opendlap? I don't think so
[23:45] <directhex> getting 2 threads mixed.
[23:45] <mok0> heeeehe
[23:46] <mathiaz> frith: openldap support the nocheck option
[23:46] <directhex> i guess i just don't know anyone who uses a distro-provided BLAS.
[23:46] <directhex> actually, it's probably a sensible option for developing on a desktop
[23:47] <mathiaz> frith: tests won't be run if you use DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck
[23:47] <frith> already building :) thanks
[23:47] <azeem> directhex: there's quite some programs which use blas/lapack but which don't do such heavy computations that it'd take minutes/hours/days
[23:47] <frith> i've only ever got it to build once and pass the tests
[23:48] <azeem> but where atlas might make a difference in response time compared to blas/lapack
[23:48] <mok0> Probably a dumb question, but... what CPUs use the lpia archetecture?
[23:48] <mok0> s/arche/archi/
[23:49] <directhex> lpia is i386 with a few different compiler flags iirc. intel atom.
[23:49] <mok0> ah, eeepc
[23:50] <azeem> only the last one
[23:50] <mok0> oh, yeah
[23:51] <frith> hmm
[23:51] <frith> checks are happening
[23:51] <directhex> azeem, i've never pictured BLAS as something you'd use unless you're a numerical analyst or someone's holding a knife to your throat. maybe both!
[23:51] <mok0> frith: why don't you want checks to happen? Seems sensible to me
[23:51] <azeem> frith: how did you set DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS?  How do you build it?
[23:51] <frith> i exported it
[23:52] <azeem> directhex: apps use blas
[23:52] <frith> mok0, i've rarely get the checks to pass
[23:53] <mok0> frith: eeerrh, sounds like a bug?
[23:54] <frith> well, i don't think my own backporting of openldap 2.4.11 to hardy counts as a bug
[23:54] <directhex> good god, a gimp plugins package using blas
[23:54] <mok0> directhex: yup.
[23:54] <mok0> directhex: It's used lots of places
[23:59] <directhex> well, the gimp plugin thing is probably the best example of what azeem's talking about. wasn't expecting it, but i consider myself re-educated.


 Ubuntu launch time - I'll get on IRC on the mobile
[08:44] <Trixar_za> Come on 8ta, show me those wifi locations. I know it's free from the site
[08:46] <Kilos> Trixar_za, hows your 8ta speed now? mine is much better
[08:46] <Kilos> helps to fone and complain
[08:46] <Trixar_za> Yeah mine too
[08:46] <Trixar_za> Since around yesterday
[08:46] <Kilos> ya
[08:49] <Trixar_za> lol
[08:49] <Trixar_za> You're kidding me
[08:49] <Trixar_za> I'm not IN the block of coverage
[08:50] <Trixar_za> But if I'm in the middle of Brackenfell, then I am
[08:52] <Kilos> eish
[08:54] <Trixar_za> 8ta keeps giving me free wifi data, but I can't use it :/
[08:54] <Trixar_za> Well, at least this is an excuse to go to Cape Gate
[08:54] <Trixar_za> Even if it's just to use Wifi :P
[08:54] <Kilos> ya that sucks
[08:55] <Kilos> ive lost a few free 2g ones
[08:58] <georgelappies> hi Kilos, how are doing on this Saterday morning? ;)
[08:59] <Kilos> hi georgelappies good ty and you?
[09:00] <georgelappies> good thanks, need to studying but yeah, difficult to get the wheel in motion as they say
[09:02] <Kilos> study all you can lad. its the rest of your life you are studying for
[09:03] <georgelappies> thanks Kilos, is true what you say, spoken like a sage ;)
[09:03] <Kilos> hehe
[09:04] <Kilos> knowledge is power
[09:45] <Kilos> remastersys makes a lekker livedvd same as booting from your drive just slower
[10:06] <Symmetria> Ullo all
[10:06]  * Symmetria got himself a new phone :)
[10:06] <Kilos> hi Symmetria
[10:06] <Symmetria> heh went and bought an S4 this morning, am happy, coupla hours into it and can already see a noticeable improvement on S3 battery life
[10:06] <Symmetria> which was primary reason for buying the thing
[10:57] <inetpro> good morning, err is it afternoon already?
[10:57] <Kilos> lo inetpro
[10:58] <inetpro> Kilos: why you still keep breaking your system?
[10:58] <Kilos> not me man but its fixed without a clean install and working kiff
[10:59] <inetpro> 03/05 20:41:24 <Kilos> kde makes me gray
[10:59] <Kilos> oh because it first lost its gui when i tried to make a remastersys dvd
[10:59] <Kilos> unity just worked
[11:00] <Kilos> but now kde is fixed
[11:00] <Kilos> lots purging and stuff
[11:00] <Kilos> then installs of the x stuff
[11:00] <inetpro> what is this remastersys all about and why you even doing that?
[11:00] <inetpro> it's not even in the repos
[11:01] <Kilos> because it works
[11:01] <inetpro> ai!
[11:01] <Kilos> tired of doing installs and having no 3g
[11:01] <Kilos> it makes a live dvd of you working system man
[11:02] <inetpro> and then?
[11:05] <inetpro> according to his website the guy ".. decided to stop development of remastersys and it will no longer be available"
[11:08] <inetpro> the guy called Tony
[11:08] <Kilos> its been carried on and works well
[11:08] <Kilos> i have kde and unity dvd's working
[11:09] <inetpro> yep looks like Roberto is porting it and it will in future be called System Imager
[11:10] <inetpro> on his own distro called OS4
[11:13] <Kilos> ah
[11:13] <Kilos> see you always fight me first
[11:13] <Kilos> ai!
[11:13] <Kilos> i may be stupid but im not a fool
[11:13] <Kilos> hehe
[11:20] <inetpro> I still don't see why you would really want a live dvd of your system
[11:20] <inetpro> things change all the time
[11:20] <Kilos> so if necessary i can install 12.04 without the 3g hassles
[11:21] <inetpro> but surely by now your system should be running stable
[11:21] <Kilos> yes three of them
[11:22] <Kilos> maverick 12.04 kde and unity
[11:24] <Kilos> crashes do happen with our power  probs and mistakes we make and drives packing up
[11:26] <Kilos> so good to have a quick dvd install of you working OS
[11:26] <Kilos> dont you think?
[11:27] <inetpro> hmm...
[11:27] <Kilos> s/you/your
[11:27] <Kilos> Maaz, hmm...
[11:27] <Maaz> hmm... is often used to try make others believe one is actually thinking
[11:27] <inetpro> a fresh install should take less than 20 minutes
[11:27] <inetpro> unlike the 5 hours on Windows
[11:28] <Kilos> yes then updating upgrading
[11:28] <Kilos> then rsyncing packages
[11:29] <Kilos> much quicker to install the working os and then it bypasses any probs you had with a clean install
[11:30] <inetpro> ok maybe you have a point, but I haven't had even 5% of the trouble that you seem to have had
[11:30] <Kilos> ya i know
[11:30] <Kilos> mine was only 3g with 12.04
[11:30] <Kilos> modem even works with 13.04
[11:31] <Kilos> only 12.04  has probs with this modem and nm
[11:31] <inetpro> so have you dealt with the privacy stuff on 13.04 yet?
[11:31] <Kilos> my kde remastersys dvd is 3.8g big
[11:32] <Kilos> nope dont like it too much so will stay with 12.04 till 14.04
[11:32] <Kilos> maybe just look at 13.10
[11:32] <inetpro> ok
[11:35] <Kilos> i actually enjoy 12.04 in both flavours
[11:36] <Kilos> but unity is faster thasn kde
[11:36] <Kilos> than
[11:45]  * inetpro doesn't care about faster as much as about functionality
[11:45] <inetpro> my kde is more than fast enough
[11:46] <Kilos> hehe i dunno how to use that functioanilty to its best
[11:46] <Kilos> but i like kde so stop nagging
[11:47]  * inetpro nagging? Never!
[11:47] <Kilos> hehe
[11:47] <Kilos> go catch your chicken eater
[11:50] <inetpro> Kilos: perhaps all you actually need is a modern wifi router
[11:51] <Kilos> ya maybe
[11:52] <Kilos> but would prefer a faster pc then i wont look for faster flavours
[11:53] <inetpro> anyway I see superfly also had some troubles yesterday and I would love to know more about what he actually did there
[11:53] <Kilos> yeah i read that as it was happening. very interesting
[11:54] <inetpro> superfly: would be nice if you could give a slight bit of more detail
[11:54] <Kilos> used the fone as a bridge
[11:55] <inetpro> these android phones of ours are truely amazing these days
[11:55] <Kilos> looks like
[11:56] <inetpro> the tethering functionality has been a life saver on many occasions
[11:57] <Kilos> lol half or more of what they said i dint understand
[11:57] <Kilos> didnt
[11:57] <inetpro> my best experience was when I was able to help American friends to get online during a conference last year
[11:57] <Kilos> but was lekker to see them work their way around the prob
[11:58] <Kilos> you okes are too clever
[11:58] <Kilos> cant be good for the head methinks
[11:59] <inetpro> it really is just a press of a single button
[11:59] <inetpro> I have it as a shortcut on my homescreen
[12:00] <Kilos> wow
[12:01] <inetpro> all you need is a data bundle and a good signal
[12:02] <Kilos> is your 8ta better too?
[12:02] <inetpro> a wifi router in your pocket
[12:03] <Kilos> mine is going well again and they contacted me and are sending a technician to the tower to get a better signal to me
[12:03] <inetpro> haven't noticed a difference really
[12:04] <Kilos> i got up to 195 mB/s i think it was
[12:04] <inetpro> but wow! Just did a speedtest and it's 4.9Mbps at the moment
[12:04] <Kilos> 295
[12:04] <Kilos> thats lekker
[12:04] <Kilos> what speetest do you use
[12:04] <inetpro> normally is just under 1Mbps in the evening
[12:05] <inetpro> I used yours now
[12:05] <inetpro> normally use http://www.speedtest.net/
[12:05] <Kilos> mine went up from 1mb/s to 2.3 mb/s
[12:05] <Kilos> oh ya thats what they told me to use
[12:17] <inetpro> eish!
[12:18] <inetpro> just tried my vodacom hotspot speed.... getting less than 0.1Mbps at the moment
[12:19] <Kilos> eish
[12:21] <Kilos> eek mine is down to .83 mb/s
[12:22] <Kilos> more fone calls monday
[13:15] <zeref> tumbleweed:
[13:32] <zeref> anybody done some .deb packaging?
[13:57]  * inetpro just tested tethering via USB cable for the first time
[13:57] <inetpro> just plugged in the cable, enabled USB tethering and voila... pc connected to the interwebs via interface usb0 automagically
[13:57] <inetpro> this is magic!
[13:58] <inetpro> thought I would have to do some configuration
[13:59] <inetpro> and it even looks like the cable improves the signal on the phone
[14:00] <inetpro> this will be my preferred fallback option from here onwards
[14:02] <Kilos> whats tetherning inetpro
[14:02] <Kilos> thethering
[14:02] <Kilos> ai!
[14:02] <Kilos> tethering
[14:05] <inetpro> Kilos: Tethering refers to connecting one device to another
[14:05] <inetpro> In the context of mobile phones or Internet tablets, tethering allows sharing the Internet connection of the phone or tablet with other devices such as laptops.
[14:06] <Kilos> oh not just the normal connect to internet option on the older fones when you plugin the usb cable
[14:06] <Kilos> something more advanced
[14:07] <zeref> inetpro: ever done .deb packaging?
[14:07] <inetpro> zeref: not really
[14:08] <inetpro> zeref: tumbleweed and superfly are the big guns here re packaging but what is your question
[14:09] <Kilos> oh zeref there was a whole class on that one night on ubntu-classroom
[14:09] <zeref> k, I'd like to package an program from 13.04 and backport for the othere release
[14:09] <inetpro> Ubuntu Packaging Guide http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/
[14:09] <zeref> I'vei've packaged before
[14:10] <zeref> just need to ask about backporting
[14:10] <inetpro> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/backports.html
[14:11] <Kilos> koud ne inetpro ?
[14:11] <zeref> yeah been there
[14:11] <zeref> does not really tell me what i need
[14:11] <zeref> :-(
[14:11] <tumbleweed> zeref: what do you need?
[14:11] <Kilos> then wait for tumbleweed zeref thats his game
[14:11] <Kilos> hehe
[14:12] <Kilos> speak of the devil
[14:12] <inetpro> zeref: perhaps you should to ask at #ubuntu-packaging
[14:12] <tumbleweed> backporting is just a matter of building for the older release, and using a sligtly lower version (to smoothly upgrade away from the backport)
[14:13] <tumbleweed> for easy packages, backportpackage in ubuntu-dev-tools can do it all automatically
[14:13] <inetpro> s/perhaps you should to ask at/perhaps you could ask at/
[14:14] <zeref> so tumbleweed do I change that in debian/changelog?
[14:15] <tumbleweed> zeref: yes
[14:16] <zeref> so eesentially packaging 1 application twice?
[14:16] <zeref> just change changelog from precise to say raring?
[14:17] <tumbleweed> that's the opposite of a backport
[14:17] <tumbleweed> raring is newer than precise
[14:18] <zeref> soz, i meant raring to the lower releases
[14:18] <tumbleweed> so, yes
[14:18] <tumbleweed> and put something like ~precise1 at the end of the version
[14:19] <zeref> cool, thanks tumbleweed
[15:00] <Kilos> hi Mezenir hubx
[15:04] <Mezenir> hi kilos
[17:01] <Symmetria> sup
[17:26] <charl> good evening
[17:26] <charl> Maaz: coffee on
[17:26]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[17:30] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl!
[17:30] <charl> Maaz: dankeschon
[17:30] <Maaz> charl: Excuse me?
[17:30] <Kilos> hi charl
[17:31] <charl> hi Kilos
[17:31] <charl> how's it going
[17:31] <Kilos> good ty and you
[17:31] <charl> good good
[17:32] <charl> just came back from a little anime convention in my region
[17:32] <charl> was watching some of the newer anime series on a projector screen
[17:32] <Kilos> ah
[17:32] <charl> and good sound, but it's all stuff i've already seen
[17:33] <Symmetria> hrm
[17:33] <Symmetria> any whisky fans here?
[17:33] <Kilos> eeek
[17:34] <charl> not here, i only drink beer
[17:34] <Kilos> that stink stuff
[17:34]  * Symmetria is trying this new whisky and cant decide if he loves it or hates it lol
[17:34] <Symmetria> http://www.glenmorangie.com/our-whiskies/signet
[17:34] <charl> he how difficult can it be :)
[17:34] <charl> that looks like fancy stuff
[17:35] <Symmetria> heh charl difficult :) when you drink a fair number of fine whiskys you get kinda particular
[17:35] <Kilos> if one can aquire a taste for that one can aquire a taste for dog droppings too
[17:35] <Kilos> save on food bill
[17:35] <Kilos> oh sorry Symmetria
[17:36] <Symmetria> lol
[17:37] <charl> lol!!! am watching http://youtu.be/wJETdagRMuk
[17:37] <charl> the guy has a funny twitch in his left eye
[17:38] <Kilos> wb georgelappies
[17:38] <georgelappies> thanks Kilos
[17:38] <Kilos> yw
[17:39] <Kilos> did you study lots?
[17:42] <magespawn> good evening all
[17:42] <charl> hi magespawn
[17:43] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[17:43] <magespawn> hey charl Kilos
[17:44] <magespawn> how do we ask Maaz if a site is up?
[17:45] <Kilos> oh my
[17:45] <Kilos> is it down
[17:45] <Kilos> is link down
[17:45] <magespawn> trying that now
[17:45] <Kilos> or up
[17:45] <Kilos> i forget
[17:46] <Symmetria> http://valhalla.clue.be/~vort/wildlife/monkey1.jpg <[17:47] <trender> yo Symmetria dude take some chick photos man
[17:47] <magespawn> Maaz help
[17:47] <Maaz> magespawn: I can help you with: looking things up, remembering things, delivering messages, decisions, games, monitoring things, browsing the internet, conversions, silly fun stuff, calculations, system administration, software development and south african stuff.
[17:47] <Maaz> Ask me "help me with ..." for more details.
[17:47] <magespawn> Maaz help me with looking things up
[17:47] <Maaz> magespawn: I use the following features for looking things up: apt-file, aptitude, bash, bible, dict, distance, dns, factoid, feeds, fml, fortune, google, help, imdb, lastfm, lotto, mac, man, microblog, mlia, oeis, ports, rfc, seen, tfln, tinyurl, tld, translate, tvshow, unicode, weather and youtube
[17:47] <Maaz> Ask me "how do I use ..." for more details.
[17:48] <Kilos> magespawn, whats the link
[17:49] <Symmetria> http://valhalla.clue.be/~vort/wildlife/monkey3.jpg <[17:49] <magespawn> the website isitdown says the site i need is down
[17:49] <magespawn> my.unisa.ac.za
[17:49] <Kilos> you can try QA too hey
[17:49] <Kilos> sometimes maaz gets a bit sick
[17:50] <magespawn> Symmetria: i'll look on the morrow when back on incapped adsl
[17:50] <magespawn> s/in/un
[17:52] <Symmetria> lol, yeah smart move, those photos are 12 or 15 meg big each
[17:52] <Symmetria> only reason I didnt scale em down before uploading em, is when you zoom in the detail and stuff is so awesome to look at
[17:52] <Symmetria> lol, you can see the reflection of things in its eyes its so clear
[17:54] <Kilos> magespawn, the command is maaz is "link" down
[17:54] <Kilos> if not he says no its just you
[17:54] <Kilos> hehe
[17:55] <magespawn> Maaz is my.unisa.ac.za down
[17:56] <magespawn> or maybe
[17:56] <magespawn> Maaz is my.unisa.ac.za down ?
 Yes, http://my.unisa.ac.za/ is down (Server is not responding)
[17:57] <charl> magespawn: http://www.isup.me/
[17:57] <Kilos> no ? after
[17:57] <charl> or http://www.isup.me/my.unisa.ac.za in this case
[17:58] <Symmetria> hrm is unisa's internet link up by their graphs?
[17:58] <magespawn> thanks guys
[17:58] <charl> seems like it http://protea.tenet.ac.za/mrtg-new/unisa-mc-ipnet-bb.html
[17:58] <Symmetria> wow, unisa been down for 12 hours
[17:59] <Symmetria> charl that graph is ancient
[17:59] <Symmetria> look at graphs.tenet.ac.za
[17:59] <Symmetria> tenet 77
[17:59] <charl> oh sorry only saw now
[17:59] <Symmetria> tsn 77 I mean
[18:00] <charl> the main campus?
[18:00] <charl> looks very down
[18:02] <Symmetria> yeah its down
[18:02] <Symmetria> looks like multiple fiber breaks on the pretoria north fiber ring
[18:06] <magespawn> how do you tell Symmetria ?
[18:11] <Symmetria> magespawn because its constructed on a ring, mpls ring
[18:11] <Symmetria> and since the provider edge router is up by the graphs
[18:11] <Symmetria> either unisa has lost power entirely (unlikely, that stuff is heavily ups backed up)
[18:11] <Symmetria> or there is a dual break on the ring
[18:13] <magespawn> hectic
[18:13] <Symmetria> lol most people wouldnt be able to tell that stuff just from graphs, I have the advantage of the fact that I designed that network and deployed it
[18:14] <Symmetria> so its easy to tell from a glance whats likely broken
[18:18] <magespawn> somebody stealing the fiber?
[18:24] <Symmetria> could be, or road works or something
[19:18] <Kilos> night all . sleep tight
[20:03] <voyager_za> Kilos: thanks for trying to get in touch with me about the release party
[20:10] <Vince-0> Kilos is away
[20:22] <voyager_za> I realised that afterwards... no matter
[21:27] <superfly> inetpro: http://christianoss.org/blog/2013/05/04/quick-easy-workaround-broken-networking-linux
[21:29] <inetpro> superfly: nice posting
[21:30] <inetpro> superfly: but just to be sure, you just enabled tethering via USB?
[21:30] <superfly> yup
[21:30] <inetpro> and the other uncertainty I had, did you have no GUI at all?
[21:31] <inetpro> in other words USB tethering works perfectly even in the most basic cli mode?
[21:32] <inetpro> superfly: ^^
[21:32] <superfly> inetpro: no, I got to lightdm, KDE didn't want to start up
[21:32] <inetpro> ahh
[21:32] <superfly> inetpro: networkmanager is a service, doesn't need a GUI
[21:33] <superfly> even if you don't have a GUI on Ubuntu/Kubuntu, you'll still have nm running
[21:33] <inetpro> sounds like something I would need to test
[21:33] <Tonberry_> does ubuntu server actually run network manager?
[21:33] <superfly> then normally you can use nmcli to connect, but because my dbus installation was messed up, and nm uses dbus, nothing worked
[21:34] <superfly> Tonberry_: I'm not sure
[21:34] <inetpro> always good to know that you can get to the interwebs in a worst case scenario
[21:34] <Tonberry_> i usually just configure everything in /etc/network/interfaces so even if network manager is there it would not do much
[21:35] <superfly> Tonberry_: on my desktop I'm happy to let nm do its thing
[21:35] <Tonberry_> same
[21:41] <voyager_za> superfly: interesting... I've had to resort to nmcli to get my 3g modem working without gui.
[21:42] <superfly> voyager_za: nmcli wasn't working for me at all due to afforementioned dbus issue
[21:44] <voyager_za> ah... missed that.
[21:50] <superfly> night all


[00:00] <hatch> I'd just hate for you to go down the wrong hole
[00:53] <rick_h_> got it :) now to make it all actually work out
[00:54] <hatch> nice
[00:54] <hatch> got a diff?
[00:55] <hatch> oh, on gh
[00:55] <hatch> :)
[00:55] <rick_h_> https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/254/files
[00:55] <rick_h_> yea
[00:55] <rick_h_> working through it, I know I just blew up a TON of tests
[00:55] <rick_h_> so let that roll and generate a big giant number for mw
[00:55] <rick_h_> for me that is
[00:56] <rick_h_>   ✖ 27 of 1694 tests failed:
[00:56] <rick_h_> not bad actually
[00:56] <hatch> ahh you moved the search view out of the sidebar
[00:56] <hatch> nice
[00:56] <hatch> good move
[00:56] <rick_h_> right, we're working around the sidebar having the single search UI stuff
[00:57] <rick_h_> so this kicks the workaround and just makes it work *right*
[00:57] <hatch> yup good call
[00:57] <rick_h_> then the card fix is the one line   ✖ 27 of 1694 tests failed:
[00:57] <rick_h_>         viewCfg.filters.text = metadata.search;
[00:57] <rick_h_> that line ^
[00:57] <rick_h_> is the actual card issue
[00:57] <hatch> yep
[00:58] <hatch> much nicer without all of the workarounds to keep it in the sidebar
[00:58] <rick_h_> right
[00:58] <rick_h_> and seems to work ok here in a quick dev/test run of it
[00:58] <rick_h_> makes the home button work out fine, etc
[00:58] <hatch> sidebar is doing less and less :) pretty soon it'll just be a div haha
[00:58] <rick_h_> hey, I always said it should be
[00:59] <rick_h_> just a single container to style and clear/etc
[00:59] <rick_h_> anyway, now on to problem two for the night
[01:00] <hatch> good so looks like you fixed that the proper way so I'm happy
[01:00] <rick_h_> I try to do things right :)
[01:00] <hatch> lol, I mean, instead of introducing another workaround
[01:01] <hatch> so does the state workflow make sense now?
[01:01] <rick_h_> yea, little bit. The "it ONLY goes through routeDefault" was really easy to miss
[01:02] <rick_h_> it'll need some comments and some others to grok it and it'll be cool
[01:02] <rick_h_> we had talked about it in principle, but I'd missed the actually talking to code
[01:02] <rick_h_> and it calling the same sidebar() threw me as it does a ton of work that clearly wasn't meant to be done in the routeDefault
[01:03] <hatch> ahh yes yes, there is going to be so much code that will be removed
[01:03] <hatch> I'm sure it'll be sad to see all that code you wrote go away :)
[01:03] <rick_h_> not at all
[01:03] <rick_h_> this is stuff I always knew/hoped would get cleaned up
[01:03] <rick_h_> it's not like fullscreen where I STILL think it's the only decent way to search charms/bundles
[01:04] <rick_h_> oh bah bah bah, stupid breakout panels
[01:04] <hatch> lol - yeah they will add it back in
[01:04] <hatch> I know it
[01:04] <rick_h_> no, it's going into the new project so not our problem
[01:05] <hatch> ohh gotcha
[01:05] <rick_h_> but it will be a fullscreen experience, so at least I can feel like I was right
[01:05] <hatch> sounds good
[01:05] <hatch> haha
[01:05] <rick_h_> :P
[01:06] <hatch> well I'm going to pop off, see some of you in DEN, the others in LAS
[01:06] <hatch> have a good night
[01:06] <rick_h_> have a good night and safe travels
[01:06] <hatch> thanks you too
[01:12] <huwshimi> hatch: See you in a few days!
[01:15] <rick_h_> huwshimi: make sure to block out thurs during sprints for hte team dinner
[01:16] <huwshimi> rick_h_: Sure thing.
[12:03]  * frankban lunches
[12:29] <jcsackett> rick_h_: my parents dropped in to stay with us last night. i can come to the call at 9 but i may have to hop off in the middle for a few moments to see them off.
[12:30] <rick_h_> jcsackett: all good thanks for the heads up
[12:30] <rick_h_> jcsackett: I can run through it early/later if it works better
[12:30] <rick_h_> just wanted to get the word out
[12:30] <jcsackett> how long a call do you figure?
[12:30] <rick_h_> 20min?
[12:31] <jcsackett> you want to push it to 9:30? they claim they'll be gone then, so no interruptions. :p
[12:31] <rick_h_> jcsackett: ok, will see if kadams can
[12:31] <jcsackett> ok
[12:40] <bac> rick_h_: update on charmworld deploy.  it has been bumpy due to obsolete bundles on production that never got updated.  data on the new staging was fresh as it came from ingest with current proof rules.  some bundles on production do not pass proof rules so it took a few iterations to get the migration right.
[12:41] <bac> rick_h_: thedac worked out the procedure to copy the prod database to staging and the latest code drop did the exodus cleanly.  so now we just have to apply it to production.  waiting on him to handle it so i don't have to bring the vanguard up to speed.  he's vancouver-based so it'll be a few hours.
[12:43] <rick_h_> bac: since bundles are one revision and reimportable can we blow them away and then migrate?
[12:44] <rick_h_> bac: do we have the code in place to convert the strings on reingest?
[12:44] <bac> rick_h_: as i said, the exodus works cleanly now on a copy of the production db.  so it should apply to production ok.  i'd rather let it run when thedac gets in.
[12:45] <rick_h_> bac: sorry, read that as it applies on a clean db
[12:45] <bac> rick_h_: yes, ingest does the convert
[12:45] <rick_h_> bac: ok cool
[12:45] <rick_h_> bac: thanks for the heads up. Let me know what we need in case you need to head out before things complete
[12:46] <bac> ok.  RT 69701 (noted in card) has the details
[12:50] <hatch> morning all
[12:50] <bac> ugh.  just realized i have to pack for cold/rainy and hot/dry.
[12:50] <bac> hi hatch
[12:51] <hatch> bac cold/rainy? Where are you going?
[12:51] <rick_h_> bac: heh, I hate that.
[12:51] <rick_h_> packing for montreal sucked, but looking forward to just vegas
[12:51] <hatch> flight delayed 3h, sitting at airport....awww yeah
[12:52] <rick_h_> lol
[12:52]  * hatch puts on sunglasses like CSI
[12:52] <hatch> free wifi at the airport though
[12:52] <hatch> slow....so hotspotting instead
[12:53] <jcsackett> hotspots always seem better than airport wifi.
[12:53] <hatch> LTE hotspot will definitely be better than airport wifi lol
[12:54] <hatch> and I don't have to worry about anyone wiresharking me
[12:54] <hatch> haha
[12:58] <jcsackett> rick_h_: i'm guessing 9 is still go time, which works for me.
[12:58] <rick_h_> jcsackett: ok
[12:58] <rick_h_> jcsackett: yea, not seen kadams yet this morning
[12:59] <jcsackett> rick_h_: yeah. i'm guessing his hours start at 9 like mine, but he has less of an email addiction. :P
[12:59] <rick_h_> heh, he accepted late last night :P
[12:59] <hatch> and kids
[12:59] <hatch> :)
[12:59] <jcsackett> i take it all back. we'll just blame the kids.
[12:59] <jcsackett> :p
[12:59] <rick_h_> +1
[13:00] <hatch> our new airport has plugins at each seat.....everyone here is on a laptop
[13:01] <jcsackett> rick_h_: i think, given you assigned me to a card i thought i was already assigned to, that i wasn't connected to the internet when i was manipulating kanban yesterday evening. and now i find that to move my card goes over lane limits. should i do so? don't think we have time for me to do slack while waiting.
[13:02] <rick_h_> jcsackett: over limit is ok. we'll clear it out today and priority is prepping for release
[13:02] <rick_h_> jcsackett: if you were really motivated you could review/land huw's branch to make room
[13:02] <rick_h_> but I can try to look at that after our call
[13:03] <jcsackett> if you don't have time for that i can certainly review it, but also post call for me.
[13:03] <rick_h_> but Makyo's card should be landing, it was in review and commented on yesterday
[13:03] <hatch> rick_h_ http://www.engadget.com/2014/04/22/air-berlin-pebble/?ncid=rss_truncated :-)
[13:03] <rick_h_> hatch: nice
[13:03] <hatch> thought you'd like that....being a pebble user and all
[13:04] <rick_h_> the ios part sucks but oh well :P
[13:06] <hatch> haha yeah
[13:15] <rick_h_> hatch: heh you wanted deleting https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/255/files
[13:15] <hatch> noice!! almost 1k lines
[13:15] <hatch> where we're going, we don't need code!
[13:30] <rick_h_> jcsackett: if you're available let's do this sans kadams then. Not sure where he is
[13:34] <jcsackett> rick_h_: there he is, and i'm in the hangout.
[13:34] <rick_h_> jcsackett: in https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/go-over-search?authuser=1
[13:34] <jcsackett> rick_h_: it was attached to the appt, i'm already there.
[13:34] <rick_h_> jcsackett: try again, that's the one attached to the calendar
[13:34] <rick_h_> kadams54: and I are there
[13:36] <jcastro> hey guys, did the gui stop showing icons for local deployments recently?
[13:36] <jcastro> I moved a demo over to a new box and no icons
[13:36] <rick_h_> jcastro: no
[13:37] <rick_h_> jcastro: nothing changed recently, no releases done though hoping for one tomorrow
[13:37] <jcastro> rick_h_, how can I force the icons on again?
[13:38] <rick_h_> jcastro: you can't at the moment
[13:38] <jcastro> any idea why icons would show up on some machines but not others?
[13:43] <kadams54> jcsackett, rick_h_: Google Hangouts is now crashing immediately on me… gonna restart the browser.
[13:43] <jcastro> rick_h_, is there a bug for linking to the service's page from the gui?
[13:43] <rick_h_> services page?
[13:44] <jcastro> so like I fire up say, hadoop
[13:44] <jcastro> and I want to see the hadoop page
[13:44] <jcastro> I have to URL mangle/guess
[13:44] <rick_h_> which hadoop page?
[13:44] <rick_h_> I need more info, we've got a lot of hadoop pages
[13:44] <jcastro> I deploy hadoop in the gui
[13:44] <jcastro> then I click on the box
[13:44] <rick_h_> ok, yes, you deployed it
[13:44] <jcastro> then I find the unit
[13:45] <jcastro> click, then I find the IP
[13:45] <jcastro> then I click on it
[13:45] <jcastro> but like, it takes me "x.x.x.x" and not "x.x.x.x:xxx/hadoop" or whatever it is supposed to be
[13:45] <rick_h_> ok, we don't know what hte url is in the charms
[13:45] <rick_h_> do they expose "available urls"?
[13:45] <jcastro> right, I winder if that's a good idea
[13:45] <rick_h_> that's not something we can do.
[13:45] <jcastro> like, it should be right, if you're in the gui
[13:45] <jcastro> you should be able to hit any page on any service
[13:46] <rick_h_> ah ok, it's been talked about but we'd need the charms to expose it. I forget what it was talked about
[13:46] <jcastro> rick_h_, I mean "we" as in all of juju, not just you
[13:46] <jcastro> hmm, I'm going to ask
[13:46] <rick_h_> ok cool
[13:46] <rick_h_> yea, we can look at it
[13:47] <jcastro> do any of you have time to help debug our gui?
[13:47] <jcastro> we need the icons for mark's demo
[13:47] <rick_h_> jcastro: ok, otp give me 2
[13:47] <kadams54> Apparently the browser restart was not sufficient
[13:48] <rick_h_> kadams54: all good, I think we're set
[13:48] <kadams54> Great
[13:48] <kadams54> I shall go forth and code… er… test… er… fix broken tests… by coding.
[13:48] <jcsackett> kadams54: only question left was do i need to sync with your other branch, or just the one rick has put up?
[13:48] <rick_h_> kadams54: jcsackett let me know if you hit any issues that delay. We're squeezing in for release tomorrow
[13:48] <rick_h_> jcastro: sure thihng
[13:48] <kadams54> jcsackett: my other branch is crap, so I suspect not :-)
[13:48] <jcsackett> kadams54: dig. :)
[13:48] <rick_h_> jcastro: is the gui up where I can hit it?
[13:48] <jcastro> one sec
[13:48] <kadams54> Too many rabbit holes with no results
[13:49] <jcastro> rick_h_, do you have access to the lab?
[13:49] <rick_h_> jcastro: not that I'm aware of
[14:41] <kadams54> rick_h_: hey, what would be the best way to take over your branch/PR?
[14:41] <kadams54> I could use the `git qa-pr` alias to pull down a local copy…
[14:42] <rick_h_> kadams54: you could use the qa-pr tool to pull it down and wokr on it, rebase it, and then push to your own as git push origin xxx:xxx
[14:42] <kadams54> (y)
[14:45] <Makyo> jujugui did we ever figure out why mocha sometimes fails with no difference between actual and expected?
[14:46] <frankban> Makyo: because useless failure output is one of the mocha design goals?
[14:46] <Makyo> frankban, +1000
[14:46] <bac> it is a wildly successful program, then
[14:50] <Makyo> jujugui call in 10
[14:54] <bac> jcsackett: here are the logs from staging.  https://pastebin.canonical.com/108999/plain/
[14:54] <bac> jcsackett: the beaker exceptions in app-exception.log have been seen for a while and thought to be innocuous
[14:55] <jcsackett> bac: the same errors are seen on production?
[14:55] <bac> yes
[14:56] <jcsackett> huh.
[14:56] <jcsackett> that is a damn shame.
[14:56] <jcsackett> yeah, i don't see anything in here that explains the login behavior.
[15:01] <rick_h_> jcsackett: hangout time
[15:01] <rick_h_> frankban: ^
[15:01] <kadams54> Bah, Google Hangouts is crashing on me again…
[15:11] <Makyo> So.  assert.deepEqual(actual, expected) fails, but assert.equal(JSON.stringify(actual), JSON.stringify(result)) passes.  Nice.
[15:11] <rick_h_> lol
[15:15] <rick_h_> I'm going to print this 100 times and ship it in a box to hatch's house http://hadihariri.com/2014/04/21/build-make-no-more/ :)
[15:17] <Makyo> HAhaha
[15:19] <Makyo> Once per day for a year?
[15:20] <rick_h_> that sounds good
[15:43] <bac> rick_h_: charmworld updated and seems happy
[15:45] <rick_h_> bac: woot thanks!
[15:45] <rick_h_> bac: have a good trip, see you on the other side
[16:02]  * bac bye
[16:10] <Makyo> jujugui ready for re-review  - I've confirmed that the tests pass in IE10, but will be looking at the saucelabs video just to be sure.
[16:12] <jcastro> rick_h_, icons still broken
[16:12] <jcastro> and also it seems that when we deploy it forgets where the boxes are supposed to go in the bundle
[16:15] <Makyo> jujugui forgot the link: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/253 (confirmed it was a timeout on saucelabs' side, too)
[16:18] <rick_h_> jcastro: k, bringing up a test environment
[16:18] <rick_h_> jcastro: will figure out how to build the url manually
[16:19] <Makyo> Holy crap, they accepted our offer!
[16:19] <frankban> guihelp: I need two reviews for https://codereview.appspot.com/90570044 (quickstart/python, high priority) with my apologies for the long diff. Anyone available? Thanks!
[16:22] <rick_h_> Makyo: woot! party in vegas to celebrate!
[16:22] <rick_h_> jcastro: frankban can help look into it. Can you pm him the info from juju status and the environment admin secret so he can look at how to build a url to check if the files are in juju or not?
[16:22] <jcastro> sure
[16:33] <Makyo> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ranna/sets/72157644219100342/ 1.09 acres, 2362 sqft., hickory floors, quartz counters, glass backsplash tile...
[16:36] <rick_h_> go hickory, that's what I put in. <3 those floors
[16:37] <rick_h_> frankban: so if you're helping jcastro I'm going to go back to working on the inspector release blocker stuff. Let me know if you need a hand
[16:37] <frankban> rick_h_: sure thanks
[16:59] <jcastro> rick_h_, all fixed, I owe frankban more beer
[16:59] <jcastro> thanks!
[16:59] <frankban> :-)
[16:59] <rick_h_> jcastro: cool, what was it frankban ?
[16:59] <frankban> outdated charm branch
[17:00] <rick_h_> oh lol
[17:00] <rick_h_> nice and easy then cool
[17:00] <Makyo> jujugui running out to pick up hatch from the airport.  Will be back from the hotel.
[17:01] <rick_h_> Makyo: rgr, give him the grand tour and maybe find him some chicken and waffles :P
[17:01] <Makyo> Hahaha
[17:38] <rick_h_> jujugui need a review and qa for a small branch please https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/257
[18:48] <rick_h_> kadams54: jcsackett either of you have a chance to review https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/257 please? Tests pass now :0
[19:16] <rick_h_> kadams54: jcsackett going afk. I'll be back tonight. If you need anything important ping me on hangouts
[19:24] <jcsackett> rick_h_: i may have time to look at it later today.
[19:34] <kadams54> rick_h_: Taking a look…
[20:05] <hazmat> rick_h_, can we make gui use the same trick it does for local charms on store charms?
[20:05] <hazmat> rick_h_, re icons
[20:06] <hazmat> rick_h_, ie. always get charm icons from the backend on deployed charms
[20:14] <hazmat> guihelp /juju-gui ^
[20:58] <rick_h_> hazmat: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpi460salmu56blakp9rmtes?authuser=1&hl=en
[21:00] <rick_h_> hazmat: app/views/utils.js getCharmIconUrl has the if local condition you want
[21:01] <hatch> hi all
[21:01] <rick_h_> hey hatch
[21:02] <rick_h_> hazmat: testing it out on ec2 with https://github.com/mitechie/juju-gui/tree/always-store-icons
[21:03] <hatch> hazmat are you in DEN yet?
[21:04] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, he just ping'd from the hotel there. I think most folks are there based on earlier irc
[21:04] <hatch> oh cool, I got the sim card updated but had to pay the $10 for hotel wifi....ugh
[21:04] <hatch> charging for internet must be a North American hotel thing
[21:05] <rick_h_> yea, it sucks
[21:05] <rick_h_> was $25 when I was in chicago once
[21:05] <hatch> holy crap!
[21:05] <hatch> I think I'll hot spot for the rest of the time
[21:05] <hatch> man npm issues galore in CI
[21:05] <hatch> :/
[21:10] <jcsackett> kadams54: did your branch land yet?
[21:11] <kadams54> No, net yet
[21:13] <kadams54> hatch: for you: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/257/files#r11924124
[21:13] <kadams54> ;-)
[21:13] <hatch> lol ^5
[21:13]  * hatch ducks and covers
[21:16] <jcsackett> jujugui: can i get a review of https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/258/files
[21:16] <rick_h_> kadams54: hatch what's the goal of the preventDefault vs halt?
[21:16] <hatch> rick_h_ halt stops the propagation of the event whereas preventDefault only prevents the default event for that handler
[21:17] <hatch> so you won't be able to listen on a container for that event and there will be no way to debug it
[21:17] <kadams54> I view halt as a bit of a nuclear option
[21:17] <hatch> it burnt me hard earlier in the gui and in past projects
[21:17] <hatch> so I really try to avoid it
[21:17] <rick_h_> hatch: ok, but it's used on a close button. It's already on a container, and it's own html/template of control. No one else should be listening to that things events.
[21:18] <rick_h_> it's like having code across the page looking in case someone does some raw JS event on some temporary node used in a widget
[21:18] <rick_h_> you bind to events on the widget, not click events in the widgets html
[21:18] <rick_h_> otherwise it's fragile as can be
[21:18] <hatch> well say you wanted to capture all click events in a element for whatever reason
[21:18] <hatch> this click event would never reach your handler if halt is used
[21:18] <rick_h_> hatch: right, I'd scream to high heaven you can't do that :)
[21:19] <hatch> that's how pjax works
[21:19] <rick_h_> so no, I prefer my nuclear option in my widget :)
[21:19] <rick_h_> ok, will look at the scope but not sure this is an 'always good' rule and that it's appropriate here
[21:20] <hatch> the only reason halt is 'required' here is because of pjax, else prevent Default would work just fine
[21:20] <hatch> jcsackett I can review your branch
[21:20] <jcsackett> hatch: cool, thanks.
[21:21] <hatch> oh crud, I can't QA
[21:21] <hatch> I can't connect to my vagrant for whatever reason
[21:22] <hatch> probably this network
[21:30] <hatch> jcsackett done
[21:30] <hatch> you just need someone to qa
[21:30] <rick_h_> I can qa tonight at the coffee shop
[21:30] <jcsackett> hatch: how strongly do you feel about that personal preference noted? b/c it runs entirely counter to my personal preference. :p
[21:30] <jcsackett> rick_h_: thanks.
[21:30] <hatch> jcsackett haha, tbh I'll be voted down on it so up to you
[21:31] <hatch> I think it looks more like python style indentation
[21:31] <hatch> so I figured you python guys would prefer it
[21:31] <hatch> but doesn't look like it :)
[21:31] <rick_h_> hatch: multiple lines is per our code convention docs
[21:31] <jcsackett> on short constructs, yeah. on large blocks like that it makes it way harder to keep track of what's where, imo.
[21:31] <rick_h_> hatch: with any complex objects as their own var = line
[21:31] <rick_h_> hatch: we had a friday retro on this
[21:32] <hatch> jcsackett but in python you don't have that problem.... :)
[21:32] <rick_h_> we can revisit, but I'm with jcsackett. Seeing vars vs hiding vars. I hate we don't use the rule on out tests and don't force them to be alphabetical
[21:32] <hatch> rick_h_ yeah - I'm talking about the curlies
[21:33] <rick_h_> oh, that one
[21:33] <hatch> I think smushing all the curlies up on the end of the last line is cleaner
[21:33] <rick_h_> meh, I'm still with jcsackett. Lines up and easy to see.
[21:33] <rick_h_> the fact that you call it "smushing" is hurting your case :P
[21:33] <hatch> lol!
[21:34] <rick_h_> I don't ever think "boy that's some great smuching code. Much more readable smushed like that"
[21:34] <rick_h_> smushing
[21:34] <hatch> I really wish github had syntax highlighting in diffs
[21:34] <jcsackett> does anyone have that?
[21:35] <hatch> jcsackett I dont' think so, I think they all just colour the diffs
[21:35] <jcsackett> yeah.
[21:35] <jcsackett> hm. i find myself missing `bzr shelve`.
[21:36] <hatch> git stash :)
[21:36] <hatch> and it's cousin, git pop
[21:37] <hatch> hmm I really have no idea how to debug/fix this network issue....
[21:37] <hatch> guess I won't be fixing it today :)
[21:39] <jcsackett> git stash doesn't do quite the same thing.
[21:39] <hatch> oh?
[21:39] <hatch> I thought they were almost identical
[21:39] <hatch> what is the difference?
[21:39] <jcsackett> if i have several chunks of changes in one file, bzr shelve lets me shelve them selectively.
[21:40] <jcsackett> stash is just "what's the WIP? let's stash it" -- or at least appears to be that.
[21:41] <hatch> ahh yeah, I didn't know bzr shelve did that. How does it determine where the chunks are?
[21:41] <rick_h_> bzr diff, grab each chunk
[21:42] <hatch> ok so basically wherever there is a line which isn't changed is a divider
[21:43] <hatch> I could see that being useful
[21:43] <hatch> there has to be a way to do that with git
[21:43] <hatch> ....you can do everything with git somehow :)
[21:51] <hatch> so you can git stash only a single file if you have edited multiple
[21:52] <hatch> but I can't find any way to stash parts of a diff
[21:52] <hatch> oh wait
[21:53] <hatch> `git stash --patch --no-keep-index`
[21:53] <hatch> ^ jcsackett  you can try that
[21:53] <jcsackett> hatch: alright, i'll give that a go.
[21:53] <hatch> you might need to use `save --patch`
[21:53] <hatch> but maybe not
[21:54] <hatch> https://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-stash.html grep for --patch for more info
[21:54] <hatch> I knew there had to be a way haha
[21:55] <hatch> apparently `git stash -p` works exactly like what you're asking....but I can't find any docs to back that up
[22:01] <Makyo> jujugui quick code review for demo-able deployer button - https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/259
[22:02] <Makyo> jujugui also, confirmed the CI failure was an unrelated timeout on https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/253
[22:04] <hatch> Makyo review done - I can't QA unfortunately
[22:08] <hatch> ahah fixed the network issue
[22:08] <hatch> Makyo I can QA now
[22:08] <rick_h_> anyone recall the guiserver url?
[22:08] <rick_h_> guihelp ^
[22:08] <hatch> hmmm
[22:09] <hatch> mind.....is......blank
[22:09] <hatch> rick_h_ like you want to access the guiserver not the gui?
[22:10] <rick_h_> hatch: nvm, I think I'm close now
[22:10] <hatch> ok cool
[22:11] <rick_h_> hazmat: I don't think it'll work. I don't know the core internals to tell but trying to force the icons to the store is easy, but the data isn't there in the api
[22:12] <hatch> hazmat Makyo I'm going to start walking to the meetup at about 4:30
[22:12] <Makyo> Sounds good.
[22:12] <rick_h_> hazmat: pita, but think https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1Y8Uhomr4_6L3nFXLXPZY2V-tFjl5KjOIknQLuXdzU_A/edit might be the best bet for the demo so that you can ingest the charms in that local store and provide the icons
[22:13] <rick_h_> hazmat: unless there's something in the core api for the files that will allow this to work for non-local charms
[22:13] <rick_h_> hazmat: https://ec2-54-87-142-1.compute-1.amazonaws.com/juju-core/charms?url=cs:precise/juju-gui-90&file= is the url for getting a list of the files
[22:13] <hatch> fixed the network issue now only to have other stuff break....bleh
[22:14] <rick_h_> hazmat: obviously change to your url/etc
[22:17] <rick_h_> Makyo: jcsackett so both of you need qa?
[22:17] <hatch> looks like it
[22:17] <Makyo> Yes please.
[22:17] <hatch> I'll try and get mine up and running when we get back
[22:18] <hatch> Makyo meet you in the lobby?
[22:18] <Makyo> Yep, down in a few.
[22:18] <hatch> ok cya all
[22:20] <Makyo> Ducking out too.  Will catch up later, possibly while there.
[23:01] <mbruzek> Hi rick_h_ Can I have a minute of your time?
[23:02] <huwshimi> Morning
[23:06] <mbruzek> I am doing a charm review, and Jose added defaults to the config.yaml for juju-gui.  https://code.launchpad.net/~jose/charms/precise/juju-gui/add-blank-defaults/+merge/212885
[23:07] <mbruzek> Normally this is not a problem, but I have encountered charm authors who counted on some parameters to be "unset" and I was wondering if anyone in the juju-gui would like to weigh in on this?
[23:10] <mbruzek> Specifically the config options that he now defaults to "" are:  ssl-cert-contents, ssl-key-contents, login-help.  Does anyone know if the juju-gui depends on those 3 being unset rather than empty string?
[23:10] <mbruzek> also password
[23:53] <rick_h_> mbruzek: sure thing
[23:54] <rick_h_> mbruzek: we've got a task to look at unset itself. The defaults should be ok as "". I don't recall if we'll send them as "" or not
[23:55] <rick_h_> mbruzek: honestly, I'd try it out and see. I think the unset we need to do is to reset a config where they expect it to be unset
[23:55] <rick_h_> if he's defaulting to "" then he's expecting that?


[00:22] <AugurNZ> Hi all, anybody going to linux.conf.au in Auckland on 12-16 Jan, and interested in an Ubuntu NZ LoCo meetup?