[21:52] <pleia2> AlanBell: shall I x-post the IRCC call to fridge like we've done in the past? (I assume you'll put it on the blog so I won't x-post to planet)
[21:53] <Unit193> http://ubottu.com/ircc/ Didn't, think he should though.
[21:54] <pleia2> ah, good
[21:55] <AlanBell> literally just hit the submit button on the blog post
[21:56] <AlanBell> but yes, putting it on the fridge too would be great
[21:56] <Unit193> Hah, figures...
[21:56] <pleia2> k
[21:57] <pleia2> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/05/17/ubuntu-irc-council-position/


[17:04] <knightwise> heyhey
[17:22] <daftykins> \o
[17:22] <daftykins> how goes, knightwise ?
[17:51] <knightwise> doin some livestreaming
[17:51] <knightwise> www.knightwise.com/streamywindows
[17:51] <knightwise> testin a server
[17:53] <daftykins> ooh one of those WFH safe staged scenes with a minimalist shelf - nifty
[17:53] <knightwise> hahah :)
[17:54] <knightwise> thank you :)
[17:55] <knightwise> red ligh district working girl light included
[17:55] <daftykins> xD
[17:55] <daftykins> i can't even see the tourists walking past behind the camera, amazing
[17:55] <knightwise> they are all in my waiting room
[17:56] <daftykins> ooh the pitfalls of popularity
[17:57] <knightwise> that and chafing on my inner thighs
[17:58] <daftykins> lmao
[18:01] <knightwise> thanx D for stopping myt
[18:01] <knightwise> by
[18:02] <daftykins> :D interesting software pairing with the decks there, out of interest 3Mb seems quite low for 1080p60 - is it using H.264 or H.265?
[18:03] <knightwise> i ga264
[18:03] <knightwise> srr H264
[18:04] <daftykins> ah ha, might be relying on the scene not changing much then as the image quality is good


[07:20] <christoffer> Does anyone else experience problems with the launchpad mailinglists? I'm trying to send emails to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>but no email shows up on launchpad nor to any team member.
[07:20] <nigelb> Are you a member of the team?
[07:21] <nigelb> And are you sending it from the right email address?
[07:25] <christoffer> nigelb: Yes, owner of the team. Yes sending with the adress I'm registered with on launchpad
[07:26] <christoffer> I successfully sent 4 emails in september and october
[07:26] <christoffer> but since last sunday no emails arrive
[07:30] <wgrant> Nov 01 07:16:47 2011 (14613) post to ubuntu-se-screencasts from christoffer.holmstedt
[07:30] <wgrant> success
[07:30] <christoffer> wgrant: perfect
[07:30] <wgrant> christoffer: The archives are a bit behind.
[07:30] <christoffer> I suppose the public archive caches
[07:30] <christoffer> yea
[07:30] <wgrant> christoffer: But emails should be going out, and the web archives will update soonish.
[07:31] <christoffer> bit behind, is that more than a day so my email last sunday could very well have gone out?
[07:31] <wgrant> At the moment it could be even a few days behind.
[07:32] <christoffer> aha
[07:32] <christoffer> nigelb and wgrant thanks for your help, very much appreciated
[07:32] <wgrant> smtp to ubuntu-se-screencasts for 5 recips, completed in 6.344 seconds
[07:32] <wgrant> So the emails did go out.
[13:34] <mwhudson> suppose we want a ppa where superseded binaries don't expire
[13:49] <mwhudson> bigjools: hello
[13:57] <bigjools> mwhudson: hey
[13:57] <bigjools> we maintain a whitelist in code
[13:58] <mwhudson> bigjools: ah interesting, so with sufficient pleading we might be able to get a ppa onto the list?
[13:59] <bigjools> mwhudson: kneel before the losas
[13:59] <mwhudson> bigjools: :-)
[14:00] <bigjools> mwhudson: not in *that* way
[14:01] <mwhudson> bigjools: ew, my mind hadn't gone there
[14:01] <bigjools> mwhudson: maybe the same thing to get decent coffee at a UDS though
[14:02] <mwhudson> bigjools: this is why we need to hold a uds in au/nz, clearly
[14:02] <bigjools> +1
[14:02] <bigjools> flat white FTW
[14:03] <lifeless> \o/
[14:04] <mwhudson> although i guess it would be less effort to ship a barista and a tonne of coffee to uds...
[14:04] <jonathanj> what does a PasswordSetError mean?
[14:04] <jonathanj> oh that's keyring.backend.PasswordSetError apparently
[14:09] <jonathanj> trying to to bzr lp-propose (and then authorizing the device) results in bzr spewing that on Mac OS X 10.7.2
[14:51] <OdyX> Aye. Why can't I upload to my PPA anymore ("General error" when checking the GPG signature) ?
[14:52] <bigjools> OdyX: it will work, ignore the error
[14:53] <OdyX> bigjools:   Uploading pyside_1.0.8-1+py3~exp1~n1_source.changes: 4k/5k550 Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied.
[14:53] <bigjools> OdyX: it will work, ignore the error
[14:54] <OdyX> bigjools: okay. Let's try "trust" then. :->
[14:54] <OdyX> Meh, it worked indeed.
[14:54] <OdyX> thanks!
[14:54] <bigjools> np
[15:11] <bnitz> Is there any documentation on how to document a project in launchpad?  Specifically I'm trying to provide epidocs in a rendered form rather than as raw HTML.
[16:46] <bnitz> How do I document projects on launchpad?
[19:08] <Darxus> Did the 'bzr: ERROR: unknown command "dailydeb"' problem get fixed?  Is there an open bug?
[19:13] <Darxus> Looks like it's fixed.
[19:21] <danhg> abentley
[19:21] <abentley> danhg: yes?
[19:21] <danhg> hey, just opened a pvt
[19:29] <Darxus> Yup, 'bzr: ERROR: unknown command "dailydeb"' looks fixed.
[20:03] <danhg> flacoste
[23:26] <meebey> hiya, I am trying to import a git branch into lp but have issues because it thinks I am using submodules but I migrated the repo to use merged subtrees instead. how is lp detecting if submodules are used?
[23:27] <jelmer> meebey: are there submodules in the history perhaps?
[23:28] <jelmer> meebey: it raises that exception if it finds submodule entries in one of the Git Tree objects it's importing
[23:28] <meebey> in the history? I thought its just the .gitmodules file, see the repo: https://gitorious.org/~meebey/smuxi/meebeys-smuxi-subtree-mirror/commits/master and http://launchpadlibrarian.net/84220088/meebey-smuxi-subtree-mirror.log
[23:28] <meebey> jelmer: hm ic, I didnt filter anything
[23:29] <jelmer> meebey: yep, anywhere in the branch history
[23:29] <meebey> IMHO it should just check HEAD for submodules, or is that how modules work? putting commitids somewhere in the history
[23:30] <meebey> I wondered already why the .gitmodules file is not listing the linked commitids
[23:30] <jelmer> meebey: the problem is that it needs to be able to reproduce Git objects byte-for-byte because git servers send deltas
[23:31] <jelmer> meebey: in other words, it needs to convert submodules to *something* - it doesn't do lossy imports
[23:31] <meebey> so how can I convince lp that I no longer use submodules?
[23:31] <meebey> ah ic
[23:31] <meebey> each object, gotcha
[23:31] <meebey> or each commit to be precise
[23:31] <jelmer> meebey: unfortunately the only way to do that at the moment is to not actually have any submodules in your history
[23:32] <jelmer> this is by far the no 1 reason for git import failures on Launchpad
[23:32] <meebey> filtering is allright with me, I made a special repo for this
[23:32] <meebey> just not sure how to that yet though
[23:33] <meebey> or I just do a history-less import
[23:33] <meebey> HEAD
[23:33] <meebey> + the merged subtrees
[23:33] <meebey> that would be submodule commit free then
[23:33] <jelmer> yeah, a history less import would work too, indeed
[23:34] <jelmer> meebey: btw, while you're here... has the new smuxi RPC mechanism landed yet?
[23:34] <meebey> ok thanks
[23:35] <meebey> jelmer: new RPC meachism? the new sync code?
[23:35] <meebey> making the connect 4 times faster and allows to use the frontend while it is still syncing
[23:35] <jelmer> meebey: yeah, the mechanism for communication between the frontend and the smuxi server.. it caused my frontend to hang on high-latency connections
[23:36] <meebey> thats in git master
[23:36] <jelmer> sweet, I'll give it another go
[23:36] <meebey> working on development snapshots thus the need for lp branches :)
[23:36] <jelmer> heh
[23:36] <meebey> we have a windows auto builder now
[23:37] <meebey> each push triggers a new build
[23:38] <meebey> jelmer: basic xmpp support is also now officially merged, allows to connect to jabber, gtalk and facebook and can send and receive messages
[23:39] <jelmer> I'm more looking for something that is focussed on IRC
[23:40] <meebey> hehe ic
[23:41] <meebey> I need more than IRC because I have to use shitty web or gui interfaces for communication with regular people
[23:41] <meebey> the best web interface is still half as good as a proper desktop one
[23:44] <jelmer> IRC and IM are two vastly different things for me, I don't really want them in one app
[23:45] <jelmer> empathy works well here for IM stuff, and I like the fact that if I disconnect I go offline (as that's what others who try to talk to me expect)..
[23:45] <jelmer> still, I have the choice of ignoring IM support in smuxi I guess...
[23:45] <meebey> yes you do, you can even disable the code :)
[23:46] <meebey> by passing --disable-engine-xmpp to configure for example
[23:46] <wgrant> Is there a console frontend?
[23:46] <meebey> only an experimental one
[23:46] <wgrant> I've been looking for an irssi+screen replacement for quite a few years :)
[23:46] <wgrant> But console access is handy sometimes.
[23:46] <wgrant> Hmm.
[23:46] <wgrant> Might have to try it anyway.
[23:47] <meebey> experimental as in, the code builds and should work but probably has bugs
[23:47] <meebey> used it for a while on my android
[23:47] <meebey> via IrssiConnectBot
[23:48] <meebey> wgrant: I started the project 6 years for exactly that purpose, replacing my irssi+screen which I was using for some years
[23:48] <meebey> +ago


[17:54] <Geochr> Hi all, in Ubuntu Greece we release a new issue of our magazine, is there any process which can follow in order to speed up the puplish the issue ? The magazine had been uploaded a week ago, but it isn't still available in software center.
[17:54] <Geochr> The magazine is only a pdf file.
[17:58] <Geochr> Can someone help us ?
[18:47] <JanC> Geochr: maybe there should be implemented a fast-track procedure for such type of packages...
[18:49] <JanC> I suppose you can file a bug about that somewhere ☺
[18:58] <Geochr> JanC, thanks for the advice but now can i do something in order to publish the magazine ?
[18:59] <JanC> I can't do anything about it, but maybe somebody from the team who handles this will see your question later
[19:01] <JanC> Geochr: if you have a PPA, you could maybe instruct people how to add that...
[19:01] <Geochr> ok thanks JanC. I hope someone help in my/our questition.
[19:02] <Geochr> question*
[19:02] <JanC> I'm not sure the current USC & its associated process is the best solution to publish magazines anyway
[19:02] <JanC> actually, I'm sure it is not the best solution ☺
[19:03] <JanC> it's just that there is no alternative built into the OS right now...
[19:04] <Geochr> no we haven't a ppa, we have a web site for the magazine but we want everyone can find our magazine in ubuntu software center.
[19:05] <Geochr> JanC, What process do you suggest us ?
[19:05] <JanC> it's not "software", so IMO it doesn't really belong there
[19:05] <JanC> but OTOH, there is no alternative
[19:06] <Geochr> We have already add the two previous magazines
[19:07] <JanC> and so have others been doing
[19:07] <JanC> I just think it's the wrong way/place to distribute them
[19:08] <Geochr> Which is the best way to add the magazine on the ubuntu software center ?
[19:09] <JanC> I don't know
[19:10] <JanC> if it would be up to me, we would get something outside USC to download/buy magazines, books, music, etc.
[19:11] <JanC> software package management is really more than a bit overkill for publishing a magazine
[19:11] <Geochr> I think that this is another subject...
[19:12] <JanC> well, yes and no
[19:12] <JanC> there is only one way to do it right now, but it is clearly flawed
[19:12] <Geochr> there are many magazines on ubuntu software center, so the Ubuntistas isn't the only one!
[19:13] <JanC> and I'd rather things get fixed properly somewhere in the near future
[19:13] <JanC> as the current process clearly doesn't work
[19:14] <JanC> well, doesn't work well
[19:14] <JanC> so my proposal is not a solution for your current problem, but could make things much easier in the future if implemented  ☺
[19:15] <Geochr> Do you know if i can sent an email to someone or in a team ?
[19:17] <JanC> I think wendar and probably some others in here are members of the team that reviews submitted packages
[19:18] <JanC> Geochr: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/app-review-board seems to be their mailing list
[19:18] <wendar> Geochr: there are magazines going through now
[19:18] <Geochr> thanks JanC
[19:19] <wendar> Geochr: it's true that packaging isn't ideal for magazine/book content, but it's currently the best way to get them through
[19:19] <wendar> (and the packaging is very light for simple content)
[19:21] <JanC> another reason why packaging is the wrong solution is that it excludes users who aren't administrators on their system...
[19:21] <Geochr> wendar, yes but it seems to be the only way (for now)
[19:22] <wendar> Geochr: aye
[19:22] <JanC> imagine all the music in the U1MS being distributed using package management in USC...  ;)
[19:24] <Geochr> JanC, we are talking about a magazine which is from an ubuntu community and not my personal magazine!
[19:25] <Geochr> The magazine called Ubuntistas and it belongs in ubuntu-gr (Ubuntu Greece)
[19:36] <JanC> Geochr: I understand that
[19:59] <wendar> Geochr: so, the other Ubuntu magazines are handled through the commercial queue, where they do the packaging for you (and quickly)
[19:59] <wendar> Geochr: I asked if they'd take Ubuntistas, and they agreed
[20:00] <wendar> Geochr: so, don't be surprised to see the category change on your submission
[20:03] <Geochr> wendar, is there something which ca we do for that ?
[20:04] <wendar> Geochr: the PDF you submitted should be fine, but they'll contact you if they have any problems (using whatever email address you submitted it with)
[20:04] <wendar> Geochr: also, watch for comments and status updates in MyApps
[20:06] <Geochr> thanks wendar


[04:17] <sujiths80> hi
[04:18] <sujiths80> The sound icon is not appearing in startup application...can anybody tell how can I change the settings
[05:37] <Kottravai> Hello everyone
[07:26] <yu2> greetings to every one
[07:55] <sudhi> any one there ?
[13:03] <latenite> Hi folks, anyone in here who can help me setup bind? I got it running but it s not working right.
[13:13] <sebsebseb> Hi
[13:14] <bilalakhtar> hi sebsebseb
[13:14] <sebsebseb> bilalakhtar: hi
[13:14] <bilalakhtar> sebsebseb: Attending the UOW?
[13:15] <drcooper> bilalakhtar is conducting a session sebsebseb
[13:15] <bilalakhtar> drcooper: well, my session is tomorrow
[13:15] <bilalakhtar> was just asking sebsebseb
[13:16] <drcooper> bilalakhtar: ok..
[13:17] <drcooper> bilalakhtar: back from school?
[13:17] <bilalakhtar> drcooper: just now :) BTW, how do you know I attend school?
[13:17] <drcooper> bilalakhtar: all know u r 14
[13:17] <sebsebseb> bilalakhtar: yep
[13:18] <bilalakhtar> oh!
[13:18] <sebsebseb> bilalakhtar: attending UOW back later
[13:18] <drcooper> bilalakhtar: and im an Indian too..u are kindof getting famous
[13:18] <bilalakhtar> drcooper: good to know about you
[13:20] <drcooper> bilalakhtar: checked out cricket score ?:D
[13:21] <persia> So, this is neither a help channel nor a chat channel.
[13:21] <bilalakhtar> drcooper: yes, but I watch commonwealth games more nowadays :) This talk is getting offtopic, it would be better to move it to #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[13:21] <bilalakhtar> or even better, to #ubuntu-offtopic
[13:23] <persia> And the bind question belongs in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-server
[13:28] <latenite> persia, ok thanks i l go to u-server
[14:43] <genupulas> hello my name is raja ..i am new to ubuntu .may i join here to listen ....
[14:44] <SergioMeneses> genupulas, join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[14:51] <jcastro> woo!
[14:55] <nigelb> Hello folks!
[14:55] <bilalakhtar> nigelb: Your session?
[14:55] <nigelb> Welcome to Day 2 of the Ubuntu Open Week
[14:56] <nigelb> I hope you all had fun yesterday
[14:56] <nigelb> If you missed yesterday's sessions, you can find the logs here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/11/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t15:01
[14:58] <nigelb> We have another awesome set of sesions today about Translations, Finding your place in the community, Inkscape, and Qimo 4 kids!
[14:58] <nigelb> To know the full schedule, take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[15:00] <nigelb> Ok, we have a minute or so to go, so who's here and where are you from?
[15:00] <nigelb> (respond in -chat)
[15:01] <jcastro> (... having some problems with a missing person stand by!)
[15:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/12/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[15:04] <andrejz> hello!
[15:05] <jcastro> Ok, andrejz is going to step in and help us out
[15:05] <andrejz> my name is andrejz and i am a slovenain launchpad group translation coordinator
[15:05] <jcastro> we kind of put him on the spot so he's volunteered to take over, thanks andrejz!
[15:05] <andrejz> i have been just told dpm is not here so i haven't really prepared
[15:05] <andrejz> so if things seem a bit strange, just ask me and i will try to answer them as best as i can
[15:07] <andrejz> QUESTION: can you explain how a new contributor finds out what and how to translate Ubuntu?
[15:08] <andrejz> Ubuntu (and many other projects) are being translated through a web interface found on www.launchpad.net
[15:08] <andrejz> So the first thing you need to do is get an account there
[15:08] <andrejz> Then it's good to get in contact with your translation team - a list can be found here
[15:08] <andrejz> https://translations.launchpad.net/+groups/ubuntu-translators
[15:09] <andrejz> Different groups have different workflows (do things in a different way) according to the number of active members and they find suits them best
[15:10] <andrejz> So i guess it's best to ask the team leader where is the best area to contribute
[15:10] <andrejz> QUESTION: Do different translation teams work in different ways? Are there different workflows and "rules"?
[15:10] <andrejz> Yes they do
[15:11] <TLE> andrejz: just let me know when you are ready for new questions
[15:11] <andrejz> ok
[15:11] <andrejz> Maybe the people who asked them can say whether they were happy with the reply
[15:11] <andrejz> So back to the question..
[15:12] <andrejz> for example some teams only translate the strings, while others thorouglhy review them to ensure better quality. Of course this depends on how strong the team is
[15:12] <andrejz> Additionally a lot of translations get imported from upstream (for ubuntu two most important are gnome and debian)
[15:13] <andrejz> in some languages translation groups in upstream exist, in others they don't
[15:14] <andrejz> this can affect how the teams are going to cope with the workload. That's why it's best to get in contact with  the team leader who is probably aware of what needs the most attention
[15:14] <andrejz> next question please
[15:14] <TLE> bilalakhtar> QUESTION: Translation strings in Ubuntu keep changing very frequently early in the cycle. Hence, would you recommend new translators to work only after UI Freeze?
[15:15] <andrejz> That's a double edged sword. My opinion it's good to translate even before UI freeze
[15:15] <andrejz> the level of changes depends on the packages
[15:16] <TLE> You mind if I elaborate
[15:16] <andrejz> for example if we take evolution - it's a really stable program, so one can translate it and be certain only a few strings will change on the other hand unity has been developed during this cycle, so strings changed a lot
[15:17] <andrejz> so my advice is: do translate, but the projects for which the strings seem more "stable". Again translator coordinator should have a good grasp of which projects should be translated
[15:17] <andrejz> TLE, please elaborate
[15:17] <TLE> It can also depend a lot on the resources of your team
[15:17] <TLE> To translate early you accept that some of your work may be lost because the strings change
[15:18] <TLE> but you also help with development by spotting errors in the strings, at least if you report them as bugs
[15:18] <TLE> this is very helpful for developers
[15:19] <TLE> but if you are a very small team you may not have reources to spend on that
[15:19] <TLE> Next question
[15:19] <TLE> dholbach> QUESTION: What is upstream? How can one work together with upstream?
[15:19] <andrejz> Upstream are the projects from which ubuntu is built
[15:20] <andrejz> There are a lot of them, but the most important are Gnome, KDE and Debian
[15:20] <andrejz> Some of these projects (including the ones i mentioned below) also have their translation projects
[15:21] <andrejz> so one can translate packages within Gnome, KDE, Debian, etc ..
[15:21] <andrejz> Now again, it depends from team to team
[15:21] <andrejz> For big languages (like spanish for example) there is a gnome translation team, debian translation team, etc..
[15:21] <andrejz> for some smaller there is no upstream translation team
[15:22] <andrejz> you should visit sites of these projects to check whether they exist
[15:22] <andrejz> translations are automatically imported into launchpad, after the release of upstream packages
[15:23] <andrejz> so for example, translation will be imported in gnome the next time when gnome 2.32.1 is released
[15:23] <andrejz> that's why there is usually some lag between the time when translations are translated in upstream and until they appear in launchpad
[15:23] <andrejz> translations are currently not exported out of launchpad back to upstream
[15:24] <andrejz> so by working together with upstream i am primarily referring to : making sure that you don't translated the same packages (duplication of work)
[15:24] <andrejz> if you fix a bug in launchpad send notify the upstream, so they can fix it as well
[15:25] <andrejz> it's also good if you maintain some vocabulary standards, etc..
[15:25] <andrejz> again it depends on the specific teams (whether they exist and how strong in manpower they are)
[15:25] <andrejz> next question
[15:26] <TLE> Kottravai> QUESTION: Are there any specific rules to follow while translating?
[15:26] <andrejz> You mean technical or grammar rules ?
[15:27] <TLE> andrejz: lets take the next one
[15:27] <andrejz> Again it depends from team to team. For example in some teams it's required one enters the name of the package they intend to translate on a wiki
[15:27] <andrejz> ok, sure TLE
[15:27] <TLE> while he elaborate
[15:27] <TLE> genupulas> QUESTION: what is meant by UI freeze
[15:27] <TLE> maybe expand to stings freeze as well
[15:28] <andrejz> UI freeze means USer interface freeze. This means UI won't change anymore, so the translation strings are not going to change anymore. So UI freeze= string freeze
[15:29] <andrejz> This in theory means that the strings, which you translate won't be changed (and hence lost) before release of next ubuntu version
[15:29] <andrejz> usually this is about 1 month before the final release, actual date can be found in the release schedule
[15:29] <andrejz> But there can always be some string freeze exceptions if there is a good reasons and translators agree with it
[15:30] <andrejz> so it's good to be on ubuntu-translators mailing list in order to stay up to date with last minute strings changes
[15:30] <andrejz> next question please
[15:30] <TLE> we'll go back to Kottravai question
[15:30] <TLE> Kottravai> I'm asking about any rules that are unique to ubuntu - terminology you should not use, etc.
[15:31] <andrejz> No, there is no such thing. Of course different languages have different rules about foreign words, comas, voacabulary, etc. Some teams are more strict and others more loose. But there is nothing unique to ubuntu
[15:32] <andrejz> next question
[15:32] <TLE> dholbach> QUESTION: Do you know of LoCo teams that come together locally to translate together? This way they could also show new contributors  how to do it.
[15:32] <andrejz> well, we do :)
[15:33] <andrejz> we had this translations evenings this cycle, where people gathered (online) and translated /reviewed strings together. We really did a lot of work, and it's much easier to get motivated once you see others are motivated as well
[15:34] <andrejz> I believe it's better if events for new contributors are seperate, because otherwise they suddenly appear in translation frenzy and they might not be able to get their questions answered as detailed as they would like
[15:35] <andrejz> we also did that but earlier in this cycle (in august). In total we managed to get 3 regular new contributors, which is significant for a team of our size
[15:35] <andrejz> I am sure some of the other teams do similar things as well
[15:35] <andrejz> next question
[15:35] <TLE> QUESTION: How do I find a translating team for my language?
[15:35] <andrejz> https://translations.launchpad.net/+groups/ubuntu-translators
[15:36] <andrejz> next question
[15:36] <TLE> QUESTION: Are translations re-done every cycle? If not completely, how much % of it can be re-used?
[15:36] <andrejz> If the strings remain the same, then no additional work needs to be done
[15:37] <andrejz> But a number of strings changes during a release cycle, either to improve their clarity or strings get added, because the program gets more functions.
[15:37] <andrejz> these need to be translated
[15:38] <andrejz> with the new message translation sharing it is now possible to translate a string in 10.10 and the string is then automatically translated in all previous supported ubuntu versions (if the string exist there)
[15:38] <andrejz> so even if you are translating 10.10 you are still helping out with 10.04
[15:39] <andrejz> next and final question please, because i need to go (i jumped in at the last moment, so i couldn't allocate the time, sorry)
[15:39] <TLE> I can share a few approximate numbers
[15:39] <TLE> before the next question
[15:39] <andrejz> ok
[15:39] <TLE> The Gnome desktop which is a group of modules that are quite central to Ubuntu
[15:40] <TLE> it consist of roughly 40000-45000 string
[15:40] <TLE> and of those ~10 - 15% have to be translated or updated in each 6 month cycle
[15:40] <TLE> very roughly
[15:40] <TLE>  ;)
[15:40] <TLE> dholbach> QUESTION: What is the most difficult thing for a new translator? What should new translators be particular careful about?
[15:41] <andrejz> In my experience it's the language. because we usually talk differently than we translate, so one needs to get accustomed to that.
[15:42] <andrejz> also most translators are "power users" so they are quite familiar with english vocabulary and hence they tend to use englishisms a lot
[15:43] <andrejz> but if you are active and have a good mentor (someone who reviews your strings and gives you advice) you can improve to a quality translator in a month or so it's not that hard. one just needs to be persistent
[15:44] <andrejz> i need to leave, hope i answered your questions ok
[15:44] <TLE> thank you very much andrejz
[15:44] <TLE> I will answer the last question on my list
[15:44] <andrejz> if you have any additional questions you can always post on ubuntu-translators mailing list or on IRC
[15:44] <andrejz> regards
[15:44] <TLE> and then talk a little but quality
[15:45] <TLE> andrejz: have fun
[15:45] <TLE> Kottravai> QUESTION:What exactly are "Big" languages?
[15:45] <TLE> Big languages are the ones spoken by lots of people
[15:46] <TLE> or rather langueges used to a large extend by computer userss
[15:46] <TLE> so something like spanish, english, chinese and so on
[15:46] <TLE> dholbach> QUESTION: Are there strings that are harder to translate than others? What about things like plurals or strings that include some kind  of "code"? How can I test that I didn't break stuff when I translated?
[15:47] <TLE> Yes there are definitely strings that are harder than others
[15:47] <TLE> the first class of hard strings are single word ones e.g. "Load"
[15:48] <TLE> because english is quite ambigous, there is no way to know whether it refers to the noun or the verb
[15:48] <TLE> here you have to hope that the developers though of it and included a string that explains it
[15:48] <TLE> and if not you need to make a bugreport, because if you have that problem, then most likely other translators will to
[15:49] <TLE> you languaes team can help you determine the meaning or report a bug
[15:49] <TLE> second is something like strings with markup
[15:49] <TLE> "<b>Hallo world</b>"
[15:50] <TLE> we are seing fewer and fewer if such string, but for these it is important to not change the markup, i.e. the stuff between < .. >
[15:50] <TLE> lastly there is something like plural strings
[15:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[15:51] <TLE> e.g. if you want a string that says "You have ??? unsaved changes"
[15:51] <TLE> and you want ??? to be any number
[15:51] <TLE> or I should say if developers want ;)
[15:52] <TLE> then they will so called plural strings, they have one version for each plural state in english and you then need to make one translation for each plural state in your language
[15:53] <TLE> but this a quite an advanced topic and is much easier to grasp with an example, so ask you team or other translators when you run into it
[15:53] <TLE> I don't see any more questions, so lastly I will mention just a few quick words about quality
[15:54] <TLE> Strings that we translate are often very visible
[15:54] <TLE> therefore it is desireable to aim for as high quality in out translations as possible
[15:54] <TLE> However quality are a few different things
[15:55] <TLE> The obvious ones are grammar and spelling
[15:55] <TLE> take whatever help you can get and need to get it right, as many other people will see the strings you write
[15:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[15:56] <TLE> this is not meant to discourage anyone, you do not need to be a grammar superhero, just as throrough as you can be
[15:57] <TLE> another thing concerning quality is the quality of the stuff that you are writing in your own language
[15:57] <TLE> in my case Danish
[15:57] <TLE> When you are transating you have the english string riiiiight next to the one you are writing
[15:58] <TLE> which makes it very easy to fall accidentally adopt the english sentence structure
[15:58] <TLE> which might not be the most elegant in your own language
[15:59] <TLE> so try and let go of the actual english sentence, focus on its contents and the formulate it in your own language
[15:59] <TLE> Well I could talk about translaion quality all day
[15:59] <TLE> but I think that was the last we had time for
[16:00] <TLE> if you have any more questions please drop by #ubuntu-translators and ask them there
[16:01] <czajkowski> Aloha me again :) Many moons ago I started to use Ubuntu and that was me, an Ubuntu user and I was happy.  But I wanted to do more, when I had an issue what did I do or who could I poke/prod and ask for help.  I joined IRC and low and behold a whole new world was available to me.
[16:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/12/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[16:01] <czajkowski> I could log bugs, report issues, translate, volunteer and lots lots more. If I can do it anyone and everyone can and I thought in todays session I'd point people in the right direction. As sometimes you just need a push in the right direction in order to help out.
[16:01] <czajkowski> Firstly, EVERYONE is welcome to help and contribute back, you do not have to a whiz in an area but rather be willing to learn and ask questions.  There is no such thing as a daft or stupid or n00b, we all have to start somewhere and the Ubuntu community is one of the most welcoming communities around.
[16:01] <czajkowski> Many peope start off using Ubuntu and want to do more
[16:02] <czajkowski> so I'm hoping in this session to tell you about some areas you may be interested in getting involved in
[16:02] <czajkowski> So now you want to help, where do you go ? There are lots of teams out there and I'm going to highlight some of the ones that are good ways to get involved and introduced to the Ubuntu community!
[16:02] <czajkowski> Accessibility:
[16:02] <czajkowski> Works to improve the accessibility support on the Ubuntu platform and the software that runs on it.  f you have further questions or suggestion you can reach us via IRC (#ubuntu-accessibility), our mailing list https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility  The team is looking for more help with documentation, and testing, so if you want to get on board jump in and give a hand!
[16:02] <czajkowski> So you may not have heard of some of the teams
[16:03] <czajkowski> or not know they are looking for help
[16:03] <czajkowski> many idle on IRC and welcome people dropping by and asking questions and can point you in the right direction
[16:03] <czajkowski> Advocacy:
[16:03] <czajkowski> People like me :) and many of the open week presenters do this
[16:04] <czajkowski> There are lots of people who help out and promote Ubuntu and turn up for weeks like this one and are run by people who want to help and showcase Ubuntu and Free and open source software this is what advocacy is all about.
[16:04] <czajkowski> How can you get others on board without scaring them away.
[16:04] <czajkowski> the thing you have to remembers is not to force open source or Ubuntu on anyone, just talk ro explain to them what its about and let them decide
[16:04] <czajkowski> it;s all about choice.
[16:05] <czajkowski> Why not get involved in your loco team http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/  Help organise events and take part in them by giving demos or short talks ? There is always a way to contribute, by even attending events that other groups like local lugs or user groups are running and talking or showing your laptop working using Ubuntu it spreads the word
[16:05] <czajkowski> so many people first get involved and get on irc via their loco team
[16:05] <czajkowski> you can also volunteer there also
[16:05] <czajkowski> help run  meetings
[16:05] <czajkowski> update wiki websites
[16:05] <czajkowski> mailing lists
[16:06] <ClassBot> anneboleyn asked: What's a good option for someone who doesn't have much time to spare?
[16:06] <czajkowski> anneboleyn: great question
[16:07] <czajkowski> so starting off small and in your team is a great way
[16:07] <czajkowski> possibly taking a part of a wiki area and seeing if it needs to be updated in your team
[16:07] <czajkowski> always ask for help
[16:07] <czajkowski> or bug triaging which I'll get onto
[16:07] <czajkowski> Art/ Design:
[16:08] <czajkowski> Lots of choice here depending on your choice
[16:08] <czajkowski> The Art Community Team https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork <- For contributing to the art in Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu etc
[16:08] <czajkowski> The Ayatana Design Community   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana <- For user experence, design and the science of user interactivity
[16:08] <czajkowski> The "I use Ubuntu and make Art" community  http://ubuntu-artists.deviantart.com/
[16:08] <czajkowski> and finally
[16:08] <czajkowski> many many teams do some amazing artworkd
[16:09] <czajkowski> or create some funky templates for their teams
[16:09] <czajkowski> they add them to a website so we can all use them which is great!
[16:09] <czajkowski> if you have stuff for your team done and want to add it so other teams can benefit from it http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/ <- For contributing to LoCo media (posters etc)
[16:09] <ClassBot> Ethnopunk asked: Is there a way to contribute to making Ubuntu desktop a more productive user experience?
[16:09] <czajkowski> Ethnopunk: yes you can join the Ayatana mailing list and join the discssions there
[16:10] <czajkowski> or join #ubuntu-desktop and talk to the developers
[16:11] <czajkowski> Cloud:
[16:11] <czajkowski> cloud is the new thing everyone wants to get involved in
[16:11] <czajkowski> but many don't know where to turn to
[16:11] <czajkowski> Anyone interested in contributing to ubuntu cloud or server  then why not have a chat with Ahmed Kamal  / Kim0 on IRC   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AhmedKamal  and he will point you in the right direction and is currently looking for feedback for the next cycle on the cloud and community.
[16:12] <czajkowski> Documentation:
[16:12] <czajkowski> The Doc team is a group of community volunteers responsible for writing, editing, and updating the system documentation that ships with the Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Edubuntu desktop operating systems. New versions of these guides are available with each new release of Ubuntu
[16:12] <czajkowski> If you want to learn about documentation or get more experience in it or already do it why not help the documentation team.  It's a great way to learn and also there is a mentoring program so if you're shy and want to make sure you don't mess things up too badly, there is a safety net with people there to help you. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam or join #ubuntu-doc
[16:13] <czajkowski> again if you've no experience do not be put off
[16:13] <czajkowski> we all have to learn somewhere
[16:13] <czajkowski> and the best thing is to jump in and just ask
[16:13] <czajkowski> you won't be told off and you get to learn new applications which will benefit you possibly career wise
[16:14] <czajkowski> LoCo Directory:
[16:14] <czajkowski> if anyone hasn't guessed by now I rather love the LD :)
[16:14] <czajkowski> We have a fantastic resource that is the LoCo Directory (LD) and it's being worked on by an amazing group of folks in the community, it's a community driven proect which started off as a blueprint at UDS and has come a long long long way!
[16:14] <czajkowski> BUT! we do know there are some kinks in it, if someone mentions UTC timezones once more to me....... :) We are looking for developers/patches translations ideas on how to help it improve or just to help with the current load of work! http://loco.ubuntu.com/  ask or join in #ubuntu-locoteams
[16:15] <czajkowski> they are currently looking for people to help with CSS and to help work on the bugs that are there at presenr
[16:15] <czajkowski> *present
[16:15] <czajkowski> they are also looking to translate it https://translations.launchpad.net/loco-directory
[16:16] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bugs  why not try some of these and ask the developers how to get working on them in #ubuntu-locoteams
[16:16] <czajkowski> Ubuntu Weekly News Letter:
[16:16] <czajkowski> also known as UWN https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter is always looking for more reviewers and writers, why not get on board and help out and learn more about the community. Or pop into #ubuntu-news and ask where you can help
[16:17] <czajkowski> So if you like to write or are good at interviewing people
[16:17] <czajkowski> or even better still reading and summerising work then join here :)
[16:17] <czajkowski> Testing:
[16:17] <czajkowski> Ubuntu Testing Team seeks to improve Ubuntu through structured and exploratory testing of packages and ISO images. We aim to detect as many bugs and issues as possible before CDs are released to the general public.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing
[16:17] <czajkowski> You can join their mailing list https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-qa  or ask in #ubuntu-testing
[16:18] <czajkowski> There are lots of areas to chose from so don't be shy and thinking you can't test! Everyone tests in some manner or another when you do an upgrade or run an unstable release and you enconter an issue, now what do you do? DO you hope it goes away or someone else reports the bug! Why not learn more
[16:18] <czajkowski> lots of areas to chose from depending on your interest
[16:18] <czajkowski> Testing Team Activities
[16:18] <czajkowski> ISO Testing
[16:18] <czajkowski> Daily Smoke Testing
[16:18] <czajkowski> Stable Release Update (SRU) Testing
[16:18] <czajkowski> Feature Testing
[16:18] <czajkowski> General Testing
[16:19] <czajkowski> Application Testing
[16:19] <czajkowski> Automated Testing
[16:19] <czajkowski> Laptop Testing
[16:19] <czajkowski> Bugs
[16:19] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities
[16:20] <czajkowski> There are also lots of bugs there sittting waiting there feeling rather unloved as they've been reported and not been triaged or marked as valid or verified why not
[16:20] <ClassBot> hermes asked: How does one start, if he/she wants to start contribution at the Kernel Level
[16:21] <czajkowski> hermes: you can ask in #ubuntu-kernel or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BugTriage  learn about how to traige bugs
[16:21] <ClassBot> anneboleyn asked: If I use my computer for testing, is there a chance that other apps will be damaged by bugs?
[16:21] <czajkowski> anneboleyn: heh
[16:22] <czajkowski> I won't say damage but if you are running unstable releases then you may find things not working the way you'd expect them to do so
[16:22] <czajkowski> Test Drive an Ubuntu ISO in a Virtual Machine
[16:23] <czajkowski> https://launchpad.net/testdrive
[16:23] <czajkowski> very useful tool
[16:23] <czajkowski> Translations:
[16:23] <czajkowski> A lot of teams provide language support and also help with the large job of translations as we do appreciate not everyone speaks English and would like Ubuntu or what ever application they use to be in their native language.   There is a lot of help on their wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations with regular meetings and it gives you lots of pointers on where to get started.
[16:23] <czajkowski> Why not look them up on http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/locallanguage  or join #ubuntu-translations  or asking dpm on irc for help
[16:23] <czajkowski> Their mailing list https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
[16:24] <czajkowski> There is a way for everyone to contribute if you want to.  If you get stuck or don't know where to get involved ASK SOMEONE  you can ask in #ubuntu-locoteams and that's also a great place to hang out in IRC to meet other members from teams all over the world or ask in #ubuntu-community-team
[16:25] <czajkowski> WE have a massive community who are pretty tolerant and will help you if you need help. So don't worry.
[16:25] <czajkowski> Anyone have any questions ?
[16:28] <ClassBot> doctormo asked: did you talk about packaging at all?
[16:29] <czajkowski> Have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted  it links to
[16:29] <czajkowski> all the questions you have in #ubuntu-motu or #ubuntu-packaging
[16:29] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
[16:29] <czajkowski> or come along to bilalakhtar session tomorow on packaging
[16:30] <ClassBot> anneboleyn asked: Where can I learn more about advocacy?
[16:31] <czajkowski> anneboleyn: there isn't one set place on the wiki to be honest
[16:31] <czajkowski> you can ask in #ubuntu-locoteams
[16:31] <czajkowski> or the marketing team
[16:31] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam
[16:32] <czajkowski> or #ubuntu-community-team
[16:33] <czajkowski> Anything else ?
[16:34] <czajkowski> nope?
[16:35] <ClassBot> doctormo asked: Is there a way to get involved with teaching or making classes?
[16:36] <czajkowski> doctormo: thanks good questions
[16:36] <czajkowski> you can get involved in both in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
[16:36] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[16:37] <czajkowski> both have people there to teach you
[16:37] <czajkowski> but also if there is an area you are good at and want to share with others
[16:37] <czajkowski> you can give a class in here
[16:37] <ClassBot> pawelh asked: I have been trying to get in touch with my country's LoCo, but it seems to be inactive. How can I jump start it?
[16:37] <czajkowski> pawelh what LoCo is this ?
[16:38] <czajkowski> as I said teams are listed http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/
[16:38] <czajkowski> if you team is listed there it SHOULD have a team contact named and contact details
[16:38] <czajkowski> if there is nobody there running it
[16:38] <czajkowski> you can contact me and the loco council https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil and we can help
[16:39] <czajkowski> well the Polish loco is an APPROVED team http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-pl
[16:40] <czajkowski> they have a mailing list listed ?
[16:40] <czajkowski> so do try adn contact them and see what the story is
[16:40] <ClassBot> anneboleyn asked: Can I help with the content/presentation for classes even if I'm not very techno savvy?( Was an Instructional designer for a while)
[16:41] <czajkowski> anneboleyn: sure you can do a class on anything just contact the classroom team and they can help set up a session on it for you to run
[16:41] <czajkowski> anneboleyn: I'd say contact the learning team and see what you can sort out and work on
[16:41] <czajkowski> hope that helps
[16:44] <czajkowski> ok well if there are no more questions we can call it a day but if folks ever get stuck and want to know where to get involved you can dm me here on irc or mail me czajkowski @ ubuntu . com
[16:44] <czajkowski> Thanks for coming
[16:46] <doctormo> Welcome to the Making Posters in Inkscape session, we've taken a bit of extra time because we need to do some prep work.
[16:47] <doctormo> the first thing to do is to install inkscape, http://doctormo.org/install.pl?inkscape <- click there
[16:48] <doctormo> One of the important parts of doing media work is organising yourself so you can find everything. Poster creation, like all publishing, is about bringing lots of existing elements together.
[16:50] <doctormo> I'd like you to make a special folder to keep all your artworks in. Me I use ~/Graphics/
[16:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:51] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/12/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[16:52] <doctormo> I'm going to give you a library of existing elements, I've tried my hardest to document the licensing where it's original or commissioned work. I'd like you to download, extract and store in your graphics folder. I store mine in ~/Graphics/Media
[16:52] <doctormo> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/art/Media.tar.gz
[16:52] <doctormo> This is a my precious media archive which all LoCo people, art and marketing people should download.
[16:55] <doctormo> Once you have extracted your archive, I'd like you to open inkscape and get comfortable, open up your media directory too.
[16:55] <doctormo> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/art/inkscape-setup.png
[16:55] <doctormo> This is my work environment for making published media like posters.
[16:58] <doctormo> If you've got that all setup, then congratulations your ready for the class. I'll be printing this back out at 12:00 for everyone who has joined since and if all you who are ready can help those who are not in chat, that would be great.
[17:00] <doctormo> Welcome again to the Making Posters in Inkscape session, you will need to do some prep work to get ready. For everyone who has joined us since the hour.
[17:01] <doctormo> The first thing to do is to install inkscape, http://doctormo.org/install.pl?inkscape <- click there
[17:01] <doctormo> One of the important parts of doing media work is organising yourself so you can find everything. Poster creation, like all publishing, is about bringing lots of existing elements together.
[17:01] <doctormo> I'd like you to make a special folder to keep all your artworks in. Me, I use ~/Graphics/
[17:01] <doctormo> I'm going to give you a library of existing elements, I've tried my hardest to document the licensing where it's original or commissioned work.
[17:01] <doctormo> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/art/Media.tar.gz <- I'd like you to download, extract and store in your graphics folder. I store mine in ~/Graphics/Media
[17:01] <doctormo> Once you have extracted your archive, I'd like you to open inkscape and get comfortable, open up your media directory too.
[17:01] <doctormo> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/art/inkscape-setup.png 11:55 <- Just like this
[17:01] <doctormo> This is my work environment for making published media like posters.
[17:01] <doctormo> If you've got that all setup, then congratulations your ready for the class.
[17:02] <doctormo> I'll give you all another 3 minutes to do that, downloading the 7MB archive might take a second.
[17:05] <doctormo> You can extract the archive by right clicking on it and selecting "Extract here"
[17:05] <doctormo> You can have a look through the folders and see what's there, all fun stuff.
[17:06] <doctormo> OK time to move on, don't worry if your still downloading, we'll be doing backgrounds first.
[17:06] <doctormo> In your inkscape window, you'll have a canvas. It's important at this stage to get your canvas the right size and orentation.
[17:06] <doctormo> File > Document Properties
[17:07] <doctormo> In the Format selection, we're going to select Ledger/Tabloid which is two US Letter sheets stuck together. You can also use A3.
[17:08] <doctormo> Where it says background, we're going to click on that and change the colour to pure white with no transparency.
[17:09] <doctormo> Close that preferences window and go back tot he canvas.
[17:09] <doctormo> Goto File > Save As and save your work, use the save button on the toolbar religiously.
[17:10] <doctormo> Next we're going to make a square using the draw square tool
[17:11] <doctormo> Make a square just less than the size of the canvas. Clicking on the fill/stroke properties we want to give this square a 4px black border and an orange fill, your choice on complexity.
[17:13] <doctormo> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/art/Screenshot.png <- Like this
[17:15] <doctormo> Next we're going to write a title on our poster, I like to have a collection of fonts as much as I like a collection of media.
[17:15] <doctormo> I install ttf-aenigma to get access to a lot of interesting fonts and fill my ~/.fonts directory with downloaded ttf files.
[17:16] <doctormo> http://doctormo.org/install.pl?ttf-aenigma
[17:16] <doctormo> You may have to restart inkscape to see the new fonts.
[17:18] <doctormo> Once you have some text, we'll want to drag over an Ubuntu logo, which should be in the Ubuntu media folder.
[17:18] <doctormo> Like so: http://divajutta.com/doctormo/art/Screenshot-1.png
[17:21] <doctormo> Drag over some other elements and place them in your poster, go with images that reflect the style you want to convay.
[17:22] <doctormo> All these media elements are svg, so they're all editable and decomposable too.
[17:22] <doctormo> At this point I'd like to download some new media to put in my directory
[17:22] <doctormo> If it's something factual, like a flag, icon or brand I can use google to search wikimedia and type in "dell logo svg" for instance to get the svg.
[17:23] <doctormo> Make sure that when downloading from wikimedia you download the svg and not the png.
[17:24] <doctormo> For more creative works you can head over to http://openclipart.org and search the vast collections of works for svgs which fit your theme.
[17:24] <doctormo> You can also take any of the works on spread Ubuntu, I limit myself to the svg works as they're the most flexible. http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/
[17:25] <doctormo> Spread Ubuntu is incidentally where you should upload your poster once it's done.
[17:27] <doctormo> Once you've got all your downloadable elements together, next is the more creative part
[17:27] <doctormo> designing
[17:29] <doctormo> At this point we have to work a bit on Copyright. sorry guys!
[17:29] <doctormo> I's important
[17:29] <doctormo> For any pieces that you work on or that you download from openclipart (which are public domain) you don't need to worry at all.
[17:30] <doctormo> For works you downloaded from elsewhere, you need to pay close attention to the license and abide by the rules.
[17:30] <doctormo> A lot of the media I've given you is CC-BY-SA, so you're posters if they use those, will also need to be CC-BY-SA when you publish them.
[17:30] <doctormo> You'll also need to credit the authors, so keep a record of them if you can.
[17:31] <doctormo> Keeping a clean copyright workflow allows you a much better sense of security that your work isn't infringing on anything.
[17:31] <doctormo> this is what I have so far -> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/art/Screenshot-2.png
[17:32] <ClassBot> anneboleyn asked: What if I use some open-source stuff and some that are not free?
[17:33] <doctormo> You have to license work from the original authors in ways that are compatible. It's not possible to legally combine non-free and share-alike works for instance.
[17:33] <doctormo> If in doubt, make your own and license freely.
[17:36] <ClassBot> anneboleyn asked: Where can I get help in doing that (getting my own license)?
[17:37] <doctormo> You can get your own license from http://creativecommons.org/licenses/ you can of course always make your own, but that's legally unsure.
[17:38] <doctormo> OK so now if you've got something worthwhile and you've saved it.
[17:38] <doctormo> You'll need to know how to print it so it comes out like you expect.
[17:38] <doctormo> Make sure at this point to save your poster.
[17:39] <doctormo> You can save an SVG in inkscape as a PDF, but elements like blur and advanced filter effects are not accepted in pdf so they fail to translate.
[17:40] <doctormo> You'll also notice that inkscape svg itself is slightly incompatibility with text fields appearing blank or as black squares in other svg viewers. (don't worry!) you can save your svg as a svg 1.1 compatible file for viewing in other programs.
[17:40] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:41] <doctormo> The best process I've found is to use File > Export Bitmap and export the full page (select the page tab) at 300dpi
[17:41] <doctormo> You can then convert the png output into a pdf using imagemagik, gimp etc. This will be bigger than an svg -> pdf output, but it'll be much safer.
[17:41] <doctormo> Please do ask your questions now.
[17:45] <ClassBot> jothejo2 asked: doctormo can i add scripts in inkscape?
[17:45] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:46] <doctormo> jothejo2: Yes, you can make python, perl scripts as extentions. Do a web search for "python extentions" and read existing code.
[17:46] <doctormo> This is where I have got to now, going mad with inkscape: http://divajutta.com/doctormo/art/Screenshot-3.png
[17:46] <doctormo> How are you all doing?
[17:47] <ClassBot> avagraphique asked: do you use a font manager and what font file types are compatible to use in linux/ubuntu (ex ttf, postscript, otf)?
[17:48] <doctormo> ttf and otf are both compatible, I believe postscript and svg embedded fonts can be converted. I don't use a font manager, I make a symbolic link between the .fotns directory in my home folder and ~/Fonts which i just fill up witht he ttf files.
[17:49] <doctormo> Thank you all for coming to my session and I hope you spread the word about how easy this all is.
[17:49] <doctormo> Education is the primary activity we need to be doing! :-D
[17:51] <doctormo> Bye!
[17:51] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/12/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[18:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/12/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[18:01] <MichelleQ> Hi everyone.
[18:02] <MichelleQ> I was asked to give this session on Qimo, for anyone who might be unfamiliar with it, or have questions, etc.
[18:02] <MichelleQ> Qimo's an Ubuntu variant, for kids 3-10 years old.
[18:03] <MichelleQ> Please, those of you around, feel free to ask questions; I'd much rather do this as a Q&A session.
[18:04] <MichelleQ> Qimo's incorporated a basic set of educational games, and is designed to be extremely child friendly.
[18:05] <MichelleQ> For those of you who might be interested in *why* Qimo came to be, we designed it for our son, who at the time was three, and barely verbal.  He is high-functioning Autistic, and struggled with multi-step processes.
[18:06] <MichelleQ> So we made it as non-complicated as possible, putting the launcher on the bottom, with really large icons.
[18:07] <MichelleQ> It's also designed to run on old hardware.
[18:07] <MichelleQ> We, being mhall119 and myself, run a charity locally that recycles computers and gives them to at risk kids - and as such, we needed something that would run on very outdated hardware.
[18:08] <ClassBot> anneboleyn asked: What are the packages to install?
[18:08] <mhall119> starting in 10.04, we have some packages in the Universe repository
[18:09] <mhall119> if you install qimo-session, that will install everything (including Xfce)
[18:09] <mhall119> you can also install just qimo-games, which will only install the games
[18:09] <mhall119> and qimo-wallpaper, that has the lovely backgrounds from Qimo
[18:09] <MichelleQ> I suppose I should mention the names of the characters, Qimo & Illa.
[18:09] <mhall119> Qimo is also available as a CD ISO
[18:10] <ClassBot> bilalakhtar asked: How would you compare this to Edubuntu? In which ways is Qimo different from Edubuntu? In which ways would you recommend Qimo over it?
[18:11] <mhall119> we're actually working with the Edubuntu team to include Qimo as a session option for Edubuntu
[18:11] <mhall119> we'll be meeting with them at UDS-N to work out all the details of that
[18:11] <MichelleQ> Edubuntu is more designed for a classroom use, with classroom management tools, etc.  Qimo's intended more for home useage.
[18:11] <mhall119> so they really compliment eachother
[18:11] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Why is it called Qimo?
[18:12] <MichelleQ> The name is derived from a song by Bob Dylan - "Quinn the Eskimo."
[18:12] <MichelleQ> Our son is Quinn.
[18:12] <MichelleQ> We sang it to him since his was itty bitty, and when we set out looking for a mascot, something related to him seemed to fit.
[18:13] <ClassBot> mick_laptop asked: is this also a live cd like other ubuntu os cds
[18:13] <MichelleQ> yes
[18:13] <mhall119> yes, it's a live CD based on Xubuntu
[18:13] <mhall119> and you can install from that CD too
[18:13] <mhall119> you can get it from our website: http://www.qimo4kids.com
[18:14] <ClassBot> anneboleyn asked: Can I directly download the .vdi file from somewhere, or is it available only as a torrent?
[18:14] <mhall119> the .vdi was actually made for us by someone else
[18:14] <mhall119> so whatever options they offer
[18:16] <MichelleQ> Something to take note of:  Qimo is made to be stand alone, without internet access, and as such, has no filtering system.  If you want internet capabilities, you'll want to install something like Dan's Guardian before letting kids online.
[18:16] <ClassBot> n3gbz asked: did Qimo spawn the recycling program or is that a separate venture?
[18:16] <MichelleQ> they arose sort of hand-in-hand
[18:17] <mhall119> originally I was customizing every install we did into a simplified interface and installing the games
[18:17] <MichelleQ> mhall119 stripped down Ubuntu and handed it out to a handful of friends.  When the kids loved it, he proposed that we give old computers out more frequently.  We then launched both the charity, and then Qimo, within a relatively short period of time.
[18:18] <mhall119> doing the customization by hand was time consuming
[18:18] <mhall119> so initially I was just going to make a customized Ubuntu
[18:19] <mhall119> but once we started down that road, we decided to keep going and make it into it's own thing
[18:19] <MichelleQ> We decided that a customized Ubuntu just wouldn't do, so we came up with the notion of QImo.
[18:19] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Do you know about any schools that use Qimo?   If so how many and where?
[18:19] <MichelleQ> Gosh, there's a bunch.
[18:20] <MichelleQ> I know of a Romanian orphanage that uses it.  I know there are a couple of schools in South Africa that use it, and at least one in Central America.
[18:20] <mhall119> we regularly hear from teachers and school administrators who find it and tell us that they're going to be using it
[18:20] <mhall119> just last week we heard from an IT admin from a school in Poland
[18:21] <mhall119> so, we have no hard numbers, but we know it's making it's way around
[18:21] <MichelleQ> I know that the library system in Reno NV uses Qimo on all of it's children's computers
[18:21] <MichelleQ> we don't have a great way to track the numbers, but as close as we can figure from download numbers, etc, we'
[18:21] <MichelleQ> ve got close to 100k kids using Qimo.
[18:22] <MichelleQ> We get word regularly that Qimo is expanding into new territory
[18:22] <MichelleQ> Any questions?
[18:23] <mhall119> http://ubuntuone.com/p/Jzz/ is a screenshot of the default desktop from Qimo 2.0
[18:23] <mhall119> can everybody see that?
[18:23] <MichelleQ> Our new character, the polar bear, is Illa, whose name is an Inuit word for friend.
[18:24] <mhall119> http://ubuntuone.com/p/Jzz/ is the new Illa themed background
[18:24] <MichelleQ> She was inspired by our daughter's favorite lovey is a polar bear.
[18:24] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: How many schools  or home users have you visited that used Qimo and where?
[18:25] <MichelleQ> we've delivered personally to four schools/residence facilities in our community, and delivered close to 30 computers into individual homes.
[18:25] <MichelleQ> that's just the two of us.
[18:25] <ClassBot> anneboleyn asked: Have you seen Qimo being useful for children younger than three
[18:26] <MichelleQ> Depends on the child - our daughter took to it about 2.
[18:26] <mhall119> gCompris and Childsplay in particular have some games that even the very youngest can play
[18:27] <MichelleQ> There are some games included that are for rudimentary mouse/keyboard skills
[18:27] <mhall119> gCompris has a couple that teach them to use the keyboard and mouse to interact with the computer
[18:27] <ClassBot> n3gbz asked: great graphics; who designs them?
[18:27] <MichelleQ> My brother-in-law is a graphics artist, and donated his time.
[18:28] <mhall119> he also did the new mascot for Xen.org
[18:28] <ClassBot> mick_laptop asked: (related to the other comment) why do people never focus on younger children? (I'm developing educational material for children under 3)
[18:28] <MichelleQ> mick_laptop: I wish I knew.  I can only assume that people make the assumption that a child under three can not be capable of operating a computer.
[18:29] <MichelleQ> I argue that as long as he/she is in a safe environment, and is allowed to play monitored, for 5-10 minute stretches, that any child over about 18 mnths can learn something interesting.
[18:29] <mhall119> part of the problem is in communicating with the younger children how to interact with the game, and what the objectives are
[18:30] <mhall119> for the very young, I've found that 'gamine' is a great way to get them started
[18:30] <MichelleQ> Gamine is a great little cause-and-effect game.
[18:30] <mhall119> it has no objectives, and will respond to any input from the keyboard and mouse
[18:30] <mhall119> so there's nothing to learn
[18:30] <ClassBot> IdleOne asked: How many languages is Qimo translated to?
[18:31] <mhall119> there is very little text that is unique to Qimo
[18:31] <MichelleQ> IdleOne: We include a number of Ubuntu's language packs.
[18:31] <mhall119> so, any languages that Ubuntu's packages are translated into, we also get
[18:31] <MichelleQ> Spanish, Portuguese... a handful of others.
[18:31] <MichelleQ> We're limited by space on the CD, more than anything
[18:31] <mhall119> the ISO includes most of the major languages we've seen interest from
[18:32] <mhall119> others are available to download
[18:32] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: You mentioned how Qimio was designed to be used offline, why was it not designed to be used both offline and online?
[18:33] <MichelleQ> We felt that it would be best for the kids and families we were working with, specifically.  Most of the families that we work with through the charity are low income, and don't *have* internet access.
[18:33] <MichelleQ> So, we decided to not include filtering, etc, in favor of other games for the kids.
[18:33] <mhall119> also, like she mentioned earlier, CD space is a big constraint for us
[18:34] <mhall119> we already strip a lot of packages out in order to fit the games we ship
[18:34] <MichelleQ> We've discussed using something like Dan's Guardian in the future, and we've worked with the KidZui people in the past for filtering.
[18:34] <mhall119> there is also Gnome Nanny now
[18:34] <mhall119> which we will look into
[18:35] <ClassBot> anneboleyn asked: Where can I get Dan's Guardian? I can't find it in the repos
[18:35] <mhall119> 'dansguardian' is in the Universe repos
[18:35] <MichelleQ> dansguardian.org
[18:36] <mhall119> if you plan on running it locally, you'll need an HTTP proxy too, like Squid or TinyHttpd
[18:36] <mhall119> there are a lot of tutorials online for setting it up
[18:37] <mhall119> any other questions?
[18:38] <MichelleQ> Included as standard for Qimo are GCompris, which is a fabulous collection of games ranging from basic rudimentary to electrical engineering.
[18:38] <MichelleQ> Child's Play, which has a really good pac-man style spelling game
[18:38] <mhall119> and flashcards
[18:38] <MichelleQ> Laby, which is a rudimentary python programming game
[18:38] <MichelleQ> and then TuxPaint, TuxType, and TuxMath.
[18:39] <mhall119> Laby, for those who aren't familiar, is a really great way to introduce kids to programming
[18:39] <ClassBot> anneboleyn asked: In your opinion, what is the maximum age for a child to use Qimo?
[18:39] <MichelleQ> Maximum age really depends on the child.
[18:40] <MichelleQ> We've tested consistently with kids up to about 12, a handful a little older.
[18:40] <MichelleQ> I've also been made aware of Qimo being used for adult transition programs, for special needs adults.
[18:41] <MichelleQ> For those of you looking for online filtering for your children, I strongly encourage you to look at KidZui.
[18:42] <MichelleQ> Are there any other questions?
[18:43] <mhall119> Any thoughts on where we should take Qimo?
[18:43] <mhall119> We'll be planning version 3 at UDS-N
[18:43] <MichelleQ> Anything you'd like to see in the future?
[18:44] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Why is Qimo based on Xubuntu, rather than Ubuntu, or even another distro?
[18:44] <mhall119> going back to the charity, we had a lot of older hardware
[18:44] <MichelleQ> we're talking OLD.
[18:44] <mhall119> the majority of what we had when we got started was Pentium 2 or 3
[18:44] <MichelleQ> I broke the manufacturer's seal on a 386 about three months ago.
[18:44] <mhall119> if we had 256MB of RAM, we were lucky
[18:45] <mhall119> so we needed something light-weight, but still user friendly
[18:45] <MichelleQ> Xubuntu fit that need
[18:45] <mhall119> as light-weight as Ubuntu is compared to Windows, it's still slow on some of those
[18:45] <mhall119> We toyed with using Fluxbox or Openbox at first
[18:46] <mhall119> but most of the computers we were donating were going to be the _only_ computer in the house
[18:46] <mhall119> which means we wanted them to be usable as a normal desktop by the adults too
[18:46] <MichelleQ> And so we wanted the computer to be user-friendly for adults as well
[18:47] <mhall119> We are keeping an eye on Lubuntu, but for right now it just doesn't fit our need
[18:47] <mhall119> we're also planning on making a gnome-bases Qimo session for including with Edubuntu
[18:47] <ClassBot> mick_laptop asked: have you partnered w/ any other groups (or developers) with similar goals?
[18:47] <MichelleQ> We've been working with the Edubuntu group
[18:48] <MichelleQ> and we've been in contact with other charities who do similar things.
[18:48] <mhall119> the Edubuntu devs have been especially helpful to us, and we can't thank them enough
[18:49] <mhall119> that said, we'd welcome any support we can get, be it in development, infrastructure, testing (especially testing)
[18:49] <MichelleQ> Additional hands are always welcome
[18:49] <mhall119> or recommendations for new games
[18:50] <mhall119> any feedback we get helps us make Qimo better
[18:50] <MichelleQ> It is just mhall119 and myself, and I'm not a programmer, by any means.  Any additional development would be wonderful.
[18:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:51] <MichelleQ> Any additional questions?
[18:52] <mhall119> Qimo has a Launchpad page, where you can file bugs and ask questions: https://launchpad.net/qimo
[18:52] <mhall119> we also have a freenode channel: #qimo
[18:52] <mhall119> where you can feel free to stop by and chat
[18:52] <MichelleQ> As people upgrade, our donations have followed.  Where we were getting Pentium IIs & IIIs a year ago, we're now getting IIIs and IVs.
[18:52] <ClassBot> mick_laptop asked: how long will you be focusing on older hardware and what do your typical donations look like (re: hardware)
[18:53] <MichelleQ> We're starting to see laptop donations, which has been wonderful.
[18:53] <mhall119> as i mentioned earlier, a gnome-based Qimo session will be in the works for Edubuntu 11.04/Qimo 3
[18:53] <MichelleQ> But most everything we're still getting is within the Pentium III generation.
[18:53] <mhall119> whether or not we'll replace Xfce on the standalone ISO, that we haven't decided yet
[18:54] <ClassBot> IdleOne asked: Are there any games that teach how to speak/read/write other languages?
[18:54] <MichelleQ> Not at the moment, though we'd like to incorporate some kind of second-language learning game
[18:54] <mhall119> there are such apps in the Ubuntu repos though
[18:54] <MichelleQ> There are a couple of games where you can custom-make your own flashcards, and I suppose you could make other-language cards.
[18:54] <mhall119> 'parley' teaches reading and writing
[18:55] <MichelleQ> Any last questions?
[18:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:56] <MichelleQ> If there are no remaining questions, we'll wrap this up.  Thanks everyone.
[18:57] <mhall119> thank you everyone
[19:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/12/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[22:23] <quietone> are there transcripts/logs of these sessions? where?
[22:25] <porthose> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
[22:29] <quietone> porthose, thx. I found this difficult. How/where do I suggest what I think is a better place to put this link?
[22:31] <jcastro> it's one the schedule page
[22:31] <jcastro> and the bot announces it during the sesions
[22:32] <jcastro> oh I see, for this channel in general you mean
[22:32] <quietone> jcastro, what is the schedule page?
[22:33] <jcastro> we're currently in openweek http://wiki.ubuntu.com/OpenWeek
[22:38] <quietone> jcastro, the link for logs there go to  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekMaverick where there are no logs or links to them.
[22:39] <jcastro> I see, someone hasn't linked them up yet
[22:39] <jcastro> Adding a link to the /Classroom wikipage to the irclogs of the channel would probably be useful
[22:40] <quietone> jcastro, if you mean https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom. then I agree! that always came up high on the searches.
[22:42] <jcastro> feel free to add it somewhere!


[23:30] <BugeyeD_> internalkernel: sorry, been outta town (and off the grid)
[23:32] <BugeyeD_> internalkernel: you should probably be looking at tar ... if using gnu tar, i suggest looking at these options: -N, --newer, --after-date
[23:34] <BugeyeD_> internalkernel: rsync isn't going to do what you're looking for there - it synchronizes two resources, so with it you should always end up with the same number or more files, not less.
[23:36] <BugeyeD_> going back to the tar thing, though ... create a checkpoint file during the snapshot. the NEXT tar should reference that file for the --newer function. using that idea, you should be able to determine a safe date (in case of backup failures, cron failures, etc.)
[23:36] <BugeyeD_> hth
[23:44] <internalkernel> BugeyeD_: off the grid, sounds like a good thing! I just got back from philly today. The tar --listed-incrementals=afile with --newer looks like it's the way to go for incremental backups. Rsync has it's purposes but... yeah, it's not going to do what I want.


[07:06] <dholbach> good morning
[15:02] <jose> dholbach: ping
[15:03] <dholbach> jose, pong
[15:03] <jose> hey D, do you know if jono is at the sprint?
[15:03] <dholbach> jose, looks like Jono had to attend a meeting at a sprint today, so is sort of out
[15:03] <jose> ninja'd
[15:04] <jose> well, then I think there's nothing we can do, are you still having your meeting on wed?
[15:05] <dholbach> I won't be there, but yes, that's the plan
[15:05] <jose> hmm, let me check with the council and see what we can do
[15:05] <jose> thanks! :)
[15:06] <dholbach> no worries
[16:47] <dholbach> all right my friends!
[16:47] <dholbach> have a good time without me!
[16:47] <dholbach> I'm off into holidays
[16:58] <dholbach> bye!