[03:58] <mnaines> Any idea if Ubuntu TV will be available to home users like myself and how much it will cost?
[06:00] <mnaines> Hello, tbf
[06:04] <tbf> mnaines, hi
[06:05] <mnaines> tbf, I would like to know more about Ubuntu TV...Is it a streaming service like what Netflix offers or is it a full-content service like what Cable providers offer?
[06:07] <tbf> mnaines, so far i'd also have to speculate
[06:08] <tbf> mnaines, you better ask jhodapp, willcooke, or Saviq
[06:08] <mnaines> tbf, from what little I gathered on the website, it is being marketed as a bridge between TV manufacturers and content providers
[06:09] <tbf> mnaines, yup.
[06:09] <mnaines> It makes me wonder if it is something to do with the whole "TV through your computer" idea
[06:09] <tbf> mnaines, in the end the plan seems to be to get ubuntu on setup boxes or even tvs
[06:10] <tbf> apparently with a highly(?) customized version of unity
[06:11] <mnaines> tbf, yes, although it would be easier just to provide end-users with a method of using their existing Ubuntu install to view TV content over the internet
[06:12] <tbf> mnaines, as i understand jhodapp the plan is to provide all ubuntu tv components for the desktop version of ubuntu
[06:12] <mnaines> tbf, those of us with shared TVs don't always get the premium channels on the shared TVs...Time Warner doesn't let my family have all the premium channels on every TV in the house
[06:13] <tbf> mnaines, sounds like a nice job for something like rygel...
[06:13] <mnaines> We would need a separate box for each TV to do that.  That is why I am curious as to what Ubuntu TV really is.
[06:14] <tbf> mnaines: in the sense that rygel grabs your tv card's decrypted stream and distributes it via DLNA
[06:14] <tbf> mnaines, guess the best way to figure out would be attending UDS, but the way you talk about time warner i fear copenhagen is a bit distant
[06:15] <mnaines> tbf, I live in what is considered the heart of America
[06:15] <tbf> mnaines: kansas!
[06:15] <mnaines> To most Americans, "Copenhagen" is a brand of chewing tobacco
[06:16] <tbf> mnaines, nah... don't talk about the viking's lovely capital like that :-D
[06:17] <mnaines> tbf, ask any American if they know who the mayor of their town is and all you'll get are blank stares or the always-fascinating "Wha?" reaction
[06:17] <mnaines> Nearly half of all Americans can't even pass America's citizenship exams
[06:18] <tbf> wha... good that you elect the mayor directly in my town.
[06:19] <tbf> leads to unexpected coalitions among parties if the mayor is well respected :-D
[06:19] <mnaines> Oh, I bet city council meetings are as fun as MMA sessions...lol
[06:19] <tbf> well. and interestingly also forces the mayor to remember well whom he serves
[06:21] <tbf> oh... and actually the really seem to be heated sometimes :-)
[06:21] <mnaines> tbf, on a more serious note, being able to watch full-content TV on my computer is something I've actually been wanting since I started working with computers
[06:22] <mnaines> Especially now that my laptop comes equipped with a GPU that can run full 720p HD and not even break a sweat
[06:23] <tbf> mnaines, i believe we'll get close to that next year
[06:23] <tbf> mnaines, still might be useful to ask for that use case on the mailing list
[06:24] <mnaines> AMD A8-3500M, a 1.5GHz quad-core CPU with an integrated Radeon HD 6620G.  Youtube, Avatar movie trailer, full 1080p HD...Only 18% utilization across all four cores
[06:24] <tbf> helps to argue on what to spent resources (hint ;-))
[06:25] <tbf> well, but at least in my (very personal) pov, ubuntu tv should just get full dlna support...
[06:25] <mnaines> AND, it easily, and I do mean quite literally very easily, outperforms Intel
[06:25] <tbf> ...so that you can share your media library, and (like you suggest) or pay tv streams
[06:25] <mnaines> Intel's most powerful laptop CPU, the Core i7-2820QM
[06:26] <mnaines> Side by side, these Llanos will flat-out destroy any of Intel's Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPUs in raw power
[06:27] <tbf> entirely lost overview regarding CPUs and GPUs
[06:27] <mnaines> For general-purpose computing, they all but hold their own against Intel's most powerful Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge laptop CPUs...For 3D graphics processing, its no contest.  The Llanos win every time
[06:27] <tbf> compared to what i've started with, everything you can buy today is more than fast enough
[06:27] <tbf> heavy monsters.
[06:28] <mnaines> Four Phenom-class CPU cores, a full power-gated Radeon chipset and a very efficient DDR3 memory controller, all on one chip
[06:30] <mnaines> Can completely power down the entire Radeon chipset and each individual CPU core as needed or can divert some of the Radeon cores' processing power to data processing, boosting runtime performance by as much as 30%
[06:30] <tbf> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php
[06:31] <mnaines> Combine that with AMD's Turbo Core feature and the lowest power consumption of any CPU on the market (just shy of 40W at full load compared to 180W at full load for an Intel Core i7-2820QM)
[06:34] <mnaines> tbf, Dirt 3, 4x Antialiasing, Medium quality graphics, the AMD A8-3500M held its own, clocking consistent framerates in the 30 to 35 frames per second range, while the Core i7-2820QM was completely unplayable
[06:35] <tbf> mnaines: seriously, no idea. that rarely i find time for games, i just turn on my aging wii...
[06:35] <tbf> ...just to realize that my reflexes aren't anymore what they used to be
[06:36] <tbf> so for laptop and desktop gpus really everything i can buy today is fast enough
[06:36] <mnaines> tbf, I have an AMD A8-3500M in my laptop, which currently runs Ubuntu Studio, and so far I haven't found anything on Ubuntu that can stress-test these Llano APUs
[06:36] <tbf> more concerned about flawless operation, than about performance when it comes to gpus
[06:37] <mnaines> And as far as reliability, this laptop runs 24/7 and doesn't complain...I could sit playing Crysis 2 all day long with zero crashes
[06:39] <mnaines> I never worry about hardware-related crashes...Any crashes are generally due to my D-Link router saying "wtf" after I start gaming or some flaw within the game that causes the game to lock up if I play too long
[06:40] <mnaines> If I'm just doing basic, general-purpose stuff like web browsing, email, IM, IRC, and the like, I have zero issues with reliability and can actually leave the laptop running 24/7 and it won't complain one bit
[06:43] <mnaines> tbf, on a more serious note, do you have any idea who all is awake right now?
[07:11] <mnaines> Hello, tsdgeos
[07:14] <tsdgeos> hi
[07:15] <mnaines> tsdgeos, do you know if Ubuntu TV is a streaming service like what Netflix offers or is it a full-content broadcast service like the cable companies offer?
[07:17] <tsdgeos> http://www.ubuntu.com/tv has all the official available information as far as i know
[07:18] <mnaines> Which doesn't tell me much at all.
[07:19] <mnaines> They are marketing it as a bridge between TV manufacturers and content providers, but it leaves me wondering if its just another set-top box or if its integrated into Ubuntu itself
[07:27] <mnaines> Saviq, just the person I was looking for
[07:50] <mnaines> What exactly is Ubuntu TV?  Is it a streaming service like what Netflix offers or is it a full-content broadcast service like what the cable companies offer?
[07:53] <Saviq> mnaines, first of all, it's considered rude to PM people without asking them first
[07:54] <Saviq> mnaines, and no, Ubuntu TV isn't a streaming service, it's software for building a TV receiver / STB with capabilities to integrate streaming services
[07:55] <mnaines> Is it going to be available to home users or just to content providers?
[08:00] <Saviq> mnaines, everything that's possible will also be available in stock Ubuntu
[08:01] <mnaines> Saviq, so I would be able to watch the same TV channels I get from my cable company on Ubuntu itself?
[08:01] <Saviq> mnaines, that depends on oh so many factors
[08:01] <mnaines> But it is possible at this point?
[08:01] <Saviq> not with Ubuntu TV, no
[08:02] <Saviq> but with Ubuntu and some additional software - yes, provided you can get conditional access working
[08:03] <mnaines> "conditional access"?
[08:03] <Saviq> mnaines, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_access
[08:05] <mnaines> Looks to be DCAS-linked stuff...
[08:08] <mnaines> Interesting...If I am understanding this whole thing right, Ubuntu TV is actually designed to be more like a DCAS system
[08:09] <mnaines> Downloadable Content Access System
[08:10] <mnaines> Basically devices that allow customers to legally view digital content without having to rent equipment from the cable companies, per an FCC mandate back in 2007
[08:12] <mnaines> Downloadable Conditional Access System or DCAS is a proposal advanced by CableLabs for secure software download of a specific Conditional Access client (computer program) which controls digital rights management (DRM) into an OCAP-compliant host consumer media device.
[08:14] <Saviq> mnaines, so DRM you can't expect to be integrated with Ubuntu on the desktop, that's probably just not gonna happen
[08:16] <mnaines> If I am understanding the Ubuntu TV website correctly, the whole thing is set up in a similar way to how Apple set up its stuff, to seamlessly integrate and communicate with other devices, sharing content between the devices but still keeping the devices separate from each other
[08:17] <Saviq> mnaines, yes, local network integration is at the core
[08:18] <mnaines> So in order for Ubuntu TV to work, I would have to download it to a set-top box?
[08:19] <Saviq> mnaines, for embedded devices you would probably have to get a preinstalled device
[08:20] <Saviq> whether a TV with UbuntuTV in it or a STB
[08:20] <mnaines> Those aren't cheap
[08:21] <mnaines> And the way things are set up at my house, only one TV has a set-top box.  All the other TVs don't have boxes and so only get the basic channels
[08:21] <Saviq> mnaines, a) there's no way you can download software on the STB
[08:22] <Saviq> b) there's no saying what hardware is there - it's not as easy as it is in PCs
[08:23] <mnaines> So there's no way for me to get full-content TV without a box?
[08:23] <Saviq> there's nothing UbuntuTV can change in that market
[08:24] <Saviq> people want to protect their content, hence they need total control over the device
[08:25] <Saviq> if you only want non-protected content then things like "HDMI dongles" will probably be the cheapest way to get Ubuntu on them
[08:25] <Saviq> you would still be able to use the Ubuntu TV interface
[08:26] <Saviq> but wouldn't be able to use any protected content, be it streamed or over-the-air
[08:27] <mnaines> All I know is when Time Warner set up the cable lines inside my house, they spliced everything so the TV in my room was hooked up to the cable TV connection that was shared with the same connection the STB is on
[08:27] <mnaines> But since the TV itself is only capable of 64 channels, I have no real way of viewing any content on other channels outside that range
[08:30] <mnaines> I think it was a year ago, maybe two years, when the FCC required media stations to broadcast all-digital signals, and when the analog signals were shut off, I still got signal, so I know there's some DRM going on someplace
[08:31] <Saviq> for cable it's probably not DRM, but Conditional Access as I mentioned before
[08:32] <Saviq> i.e. your STB has to descramble the signal
[08:32] <Saviq> and to be able to do that in Ubuntu on your desktop, you'd need an off-the-shelf solution
[08:33] <mnaines> Ah, so technically I could get full-content broadcast if I could find an UbuntuTV-capable receiver that can receive those channels?
[08:33] <Saviq> in Europe it's usually a CI module (Common Interface) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Interface
[08:33] <Saviq> but very few providers actually let them have you
[08:33] <Saviq> their business is in keeping you tied to the crappy STB
[08:35] <mnaines> Saviq, I know that strategy all too well...One STB for the DRM, another for the DVR, and don't even get me started on the wireless receivers that AT&T U-Verse has for TVs
[08:36] <Saviq> yup
[08:36] <mnaines> Would be nice to finally see a single box that can do all that by itself
[08:36] <Saviq> it's the same here for the most part, there's a small amount of providers that let you get a SmartCard or a paired CAM + SmartCard
[08:37] <Saviq> and put it in any CI-capable receiver
[08:37] <Saviq> but then their problem is that after CI you can do just anything with the content
[08:37] <Saviq> i.e. put it on the internet (like it's not already there...)
[08:37] <mnaines> So Ubuntu TV on an STB would be all those features rolled into one box?
[08:37] <Saviq> mnaines, it very much depends
[08:38] <Saviq> mnaines, in your case, we'd have to get in bed with Time Warner to integrate hardware capable of receiving their content
[08:38] <Saviq> and it's them that would distribute the boxes
[08:38] <Saviq> but you'd get all the other features of UbuntuTV
[08:39] <mnaines> So I'd be better off keeping my existing STB and getting a TV preloaded with UbuntuTV?
[08:41] <Saviq> mnaines, sure, that would work, too
[08:42] <mnaines> Now if only I could convince the rest of my family to switch to Ubuntu...I already got my brother to use Macs
[08:43] <mnaines> Both of my brothers have been Apple fanboys for years now
[08:48] <mnaines> I need a new TV anyway...The one I have now is years out of date...an old, dusty 14" CRT TV by Toshiba