[01:12] <ara> bdmurray, sbeattie: do you already have a xmas tree: http://quiltville.blogspot.com/2008/12/in-spirit-of-yesterdays-post.html?
[01:14] <sbeattie> ara: schwuk may want to make one of those.
[01:16] <bdmurray> What would I do with all the Mountain Dew?
[01:17] <ara> bdmurray: you can still use heineken cans
[01:21] <bdmurray> ara: awesome!
[01:32] <charlie-tca> Jaunty Question: Finally got an alternate cd image that loaded. If /home/$USER is carried forward, the user can be added!
[01:33] <charlie-tca> The user does not currently exist, but /home/$USER does. Trying to add the user generates an error that home directory exists.
[01:42] <charlie-tca> If the user does not currently exist, but /home/$USER does. Trying to add the user generates an error that home directory exists.
[01:42] <charlie-tca> Is this a known bug?
[01:51] <charlie-tca> Any workaround to add the user if /home/$USER exists without losing the home directory?
[02:33] <hggdh> charlie-tca, I do not think this is the right channel...
[02:34] <hggdh> but did you check if the userIds (user number) are the same?
[02:34] <charlie-tca> Yeah, Sorry. I asked in #ubuntu+1 and then found the bug from hardy
[02:34] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[02:34] <charlie-tca> UserIds match. I´ll give it a day or two.
[18:20] <davmor2> bdmurray: could you not just have a tickbox put in launch pad for sru?
[19:38] <davmor2> cr3: what happens about 3d driver issue/ compiz issue on these machines is it possible to test these?
[19:39] <cr3> davmor2: for laptops, that requires on site assistance from myself
[19:41] <davmor2> Okay cool.  Will there be some way to inform the developers of this?
[19:41] <cr3> davmor2: upstream or distro?
[19:41] <davmor2> I'm guessing distro
[19:41] <davmor2> or is this what the advanced search thing will do?
[19:42] <cr3> davmor2: this could be documented and the three points of contact proposed could answer this kind of question
[19:42] <cr3> davmor2: the advanced search thing is strictly to find what hardware has what
[19:43] <davmor2> cr3: I think a quick doc listing what is available where I think would be better quicker and easier.  Also if all the lappy tests need you around then the points of contact can only redirect to you.
[19:44] <cr3> davmor2: the certification website already has a listing of everything available and where, but that's only moderately useful considering most questions I've received are for specific devices
[19:44] <davmor2> :)
[19:49] <davmor2> cr3: what's the max resolution on the monitor etc?
[19:50] <davmor2> on non laptops
[19:51] <cr3> davmor2: through the kvm? not sure, but rather low
[19:52] <davmor2> so how would you go about checking hi res issues would that be a case of manual testing on the laptops?
[19:54] <cr3> davmor2: I'm contemplating automatic graphics controller testing which would: 1. cycle through all supported resolutions; 2. take a screenshot and compare against golden images; 3. have a human only validate one of the resolutions
[19:56] <davmor2> cr3: Okay cool.  Only other thing hardware wise is external devices being pluged in.  i.e. dell inspire ..... doesn't work with my ipod etc
[20:02] <cr3> davmor2: yeah, that's a tough one... lego mindstorm bots running around, plugging devices in and out?
[20:03] <davmor2> It's getting the devices too :)
[20:08] <davmor2> cr3: do any of the servers come with impi cards in if so that will tell you if it has power from a remote location
[20:08] <cr3> davmor2: the servers have various heterogeneous ways to get that information from the serial port, but each are probably different :(
[20:10] <davmor2> cr3: okay I just remember a talk at the lug about impi 3 and how useful it was for remote power switch on/reset etc
[20:23] <davmor2> schwuk: that's an outrageous lie ;)
[20:40] <davmor2> ara: that's most cos we have no pr in the testing team :D
[23:26] <davmor2> ara: will you be covering layout and base format for the testcases?
[23:26] <ara> davmor2: sure, that's the main topic of the sessoin :)
[23:27] <stgraber> davmor2: sound quality's ok ?
[23:27] <davmor2> stgraber: quiet but okay
[23:29] <davmor2> ara: would it be possible to create a template for a blank testcase page while the majority of the team are in one place?


[00:37] <rtorto> Hello. I have a problem. Sound is being output to both my speakers(plugged in to the back of pc) and my headphones(plugged in the front) when I choose analog output connector, and to neither when I choose analog headphones connector. How do I get this to behave properly?
[01:47] <[1]CryptKeeper> hello
[01:48] <[1]CryptKeeper> does anyone here uses Second Life with US 64 bits?
[01:48] <[1]CryptKeeper> use*
[01:50] <[1]CryptKeeper> I installed all the gstream packages and still no luck, I'm using US oneiric ozealot and phoniex viewer/firestorm, no luck with any of these two viewers anyhow
[01:59] <[1]CryptKeeper> oh, there is Imprudence for linux x64
[02:26] <acerimmer> yes ubuntu does art and it really does it well!
[13:39] <cbarth> hi all
[13:43] <cbarth> holstein: fixed my prob with bristol jack and rosegarden
[21:00] <msepsis> I know I've seen this before but don't remember the fix:
[21:00] <msepsis> How do i get the top bar of my windows back in ubuntu 10.04, gnome?
[21:01] <msepsis> After a sequence of installing and uninstalling nvidida drivers (both from .run files and the "additional hardware" applet I somehow lost the top bar of all my windows. . .
[21:01] <acerimmer> msepsis: you mean the menu bar?
[21:04] <ailo> msepsis: You mean the window borders
[21:04] <ailo> Try changing desktop effects to none and back again
[21:04] <ailo> Right click on the desktop to change background, and in one of the tabs you find desktop effects
[21:05] <ailo> msepsis: Have you ever been messing with compiz settings?
[21:05] <ailo> If not, the window borders are managed by metacity
[22:17] <hendrikus> hello everybody _ i installad the last year many linux distro's - NONE of them was able to make movies with sound from the webcam - name it and i installed in all this distoś mint chrunchbang, Pardus Moonos Fedora Ubuntu Xubuntu edubuntu is there any hope that it is working in Ubuntu Studio?
[22:20] <acerimmer> hendrikus: what hardware
[22:20] <hendrikus> acer laptop
[22:20] <hendrikus> acerimmer, acer laptop
[22:21] <acerimmer> hendrikus: run in terminal ls -hw so we can ID your camera
[22:21] <hendrikus> acerimmer, aspire 9420
[22:21] <hendrikus> acerimmer, ok
[22:21] <acerimmer> lshw
[22:22] <hendrikus> acerimmer, that command is not complete it is not working
[22:22] <hendrikus> ls -hw
[22:22] <acerimmer> lshw
[22:23] <hendrikus> acerimmer, it has to be sudo lshw
[22:24] <acerimmer> you've got diff settins than me then, but did you install Cheese?
[22:25] <hendrikus> acerimmer, cheese yes but that is not any distro stable >>> please understand i am not a beginner >>>
[22:26] <acerimmer> hendrikus: what results did cheese give you?
[22:27] <hendrikus> acerimmer, not stable - that means - one moment it make a video - a other moment nothing - please and not in one distro i checkt it in more distro's
[22:28] <hendrikus> acerimmer, what do you wont to know from lshw ?
[22:28] <hendrikus> acerimmer, because this is a long list
[22:30] <acerimmer> hendrikus: different idea.  If you've got VLC put this in terminal:  vlc v4l2:///dev/video0  FWIW, my '09 Dell with internal webcam works 100%  can't understand why your's doesn't.   Hoped to see the vendor id on the camera.
[22:32] <hendrikus> acerimmer, I also tried many things with vlc >>> Sorry but my webcam works in Google chat Skype in cheese it is the programme software cheese ore webcamstudio who are not working and stable
[22:33] <hendrikus> acerimmer,  vlc v4l2:///dev/video0 O.k that is working >>> now I like to get sound with the video
[22:35] <hendrikus> acerimmer,  vlc v4l2:///dev/video0 >>> I mean how can I record this in a stable way
[22:35] <acerimmer> hendrikus: if you've got ANY video output, the issue is properly configuring the video program you want to use.
[22:36] <acerimmer> hendrikus: test it.  hit the VLC record button and see what you get.
[22:36] <hendrikus> acerimmer,  vlc v4l2:///dev/video0 this give me a video output
[22:36] <acerimmer> right.  see the red button?  = record
[22:37] <hendrikus> acerimmer, were in Vlc do you see a record button?
[22:37] <acerimmer> lower left corner under the picture
[22:39] <hendrikus> acerimmer, please I don't see any red button in Vlc
[22:39] <hendrikus> acerimmer, lower left corner ther is only a play or pause button
[22:40] <acerimmer> no record button when running terminal command "vlc v4l2:///dev/video0"?
[22:41] <hendrikus> acerimmer, yes no record button - and I didn see it in any vlc before you mentioned to me - it is not there
[22:43] <acerimmer> hendrikus: can you play dvd or .mp4 videos at all?
[22:43] <hendrikus> acerimmer, do you think i have to buy a Mac  for this kind of thinks?
[22:43] <astraljava> hendrikus: You have to enable Advanced Controls from the View menu.
[22:44] <hendrikus> acerimmer, chure i can play dvd and mp4
[22:44] <hendrikus> astraljava, i wil take a look
[22:45] <hendrikus> astraljava, jip that correct >>> I will try it
[22:45] <acerimmer> me>facepalm
[22:45] <acerimmer> !me facepalm
[22:45]  * acerimmer facepalm
[22:46] <astraljava> acerimmer: Hmm?
[22:47] <hendrikus> astraljava, thats working only no sound?
[22:47] <astraljava> astraljava: I can't help you further, I'm no video guy.
[22:47] <hendrikus> acerimmer, only no sound
[22:47] <acerimmer> hendrikus: so it records now??
[22:47] <hendrikus> acerimmer, jip only no sound
[22:49] <acerimmer> see Sound Preferences.  Check your Hardware profile and Input Device settings.  You're close...
[22:49] <holstein> im not checking the scroll back, but lemme fire out pavucontrol as a helper
[22:50] <hendrikus> acerimmer, yes >>> but what i don't understand that there is not one software product what do this job out of the box
[22:52] <hendrikus> acerimmer, I dont see where in vlc i can configure the input audio only the output audio I find
[22:52] <acerimmer> hendrikus: too much variation to make a universal hardware detect/configure app
[22:52] <hendrikus> acerimmer, ye ye ye that not hte right anwser
[22:53] <acerimmer> hendrikus: UBUNTU System>Preferences>Sound
[22:53] <hendrikus> acerimmer, ok i take a look
[22:53] <holstein> yeah. or pavucontrol
[22:54] <holstein> unless you are using JACK
[22:54] <holstein> i had sound using cheese though ;)
[22:54] <hendrikus> acerimmer, i am in xubuntu >>> that not there
[22:55] <holstein> hendrikus: pavucontrol will be.. you can install it and run it from the terminal or alt+F2 if you prefer
[22:55] <acerimmer> hendrikus: you're on 11.04/11.10?  quick suggestion: go with 10.04 LTS release and fully developed.  The port of UStudio to XFCE is incomplete.
[22:55] <hendrikus> holstein, it is not hte sounds in cheese wich is un stable it is the video wich is not workeble for me
[22:56] <hendrikus> acerimmer, explaine me more aboutyour sugestion
[22:57] <hendrikus> acerimmer, i am on 11.10 xubuntu
[22:58] <astraljava> acerimmer: 11.04 wasn't based on Xubuntu.
[22:58] <hendrikus> acerimmer, do you mean ubuntu studio 10.04 LTS is what i have to install and all the video will work????
[22:59] <hendrikus> acerimmer, out of the box video recording?
[22:59] <acerimmer> hendrikus: idk, but the chances are better than with 11.10 IMHO.  Maybe astral can speak on this...
[22:59] <acerimmer> hendrikus: fwiw, i'm on 10.04 and video with sound has never been an issue
[22:59] <hendrikus> acerimmer, you mean 11.10 is not good
[23:00] <hendrikus> acerimmer, is that the old Ubuntu look because I dont like gnome 3 or 4
[23:00] <acerimmer> hendrikus: it's INCOMPLETE.  didn't say "not good".  applications, parts and pieces are missing or not fully in place.  Nice thing about LTS is it's tested and maintained better than interim releases.
[23:01] <astraljava> hendrikus: acerimmer is right in that 10.04 was an LTS, which means all software components _at that time_ got more careful testing, and were possibly less bug-ridden as the ones that are in 11.10 currently are.
[23:01] <astraljava> hendrikus: Please note that that doesn't necessarily mean that all your problems are solved with that, however.
[23:01] <hendrikus> acerimmer, why are they making a new distro number wich is not complete >>> do i live in the wrong Linux world to understand this?
[23:02] <astraljava> hendrikus: There is the possibility that some features have been introduced to necessary applications/drivers after 10.04 schedule.
[23:02] <astraljava> hendrikus: You can test this with live-cd, of course, without messing your current installation.
[23:03] <acerimmer> hendrikus: interim releases provide the opportunity to test out new features.  IMHO they should NOT be used in production machines, i.e. the one that HAS to work.
[23:03] <astraljava> +1
[23:04] <hendrikus> astraljava, I mean why it is so dificult to make a distro special for multimedia video audio and then there will not work recording from the webcam >>> that must works otherwise you dont can talk about i mutimedia studio >>> that not more than any other distro
[23:04] <acerimmer> hendrikus: again just IMO, once I decided to install LTS only, my ubuntu error rate dropped considederably.
[23:05] <hendrikus> acerimmer, that is a thing i directly believe from you - is that the old looking ubuntu style - not gnome 3
[23:05] <acerimmer> hendrikus: you've got video at least part time.  You've had audio at least part time.  It's not a hardware issue.  It's testing to find the CORRECT configuration for YOUR particular machine.
[23:06] <astraljava> hendrikus: Very few webcams can provide the professional-like quality that is sought after with the tools and components of the distribution. If you would like that changed, I propose voicing that matter on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>mailing list, or joining #ubuntustudio-devel channel, and talking to the devs about it.
[23:06] <acerimmer> hendrikus: won't solve your audio/video issue, but you might wish to do like me: I installed LTS 10.04 and won't upgrade before 12.04 and MAY not do so then.  But I do run 11.04/11.10 in virtual box just so I can see how things are changing.
[23:07] <astraljava> hendrikus: Please do notice, though, that we're very far into the development cycle for 12.04, and so are unlikely to get new features in anymore. But the release after that is a very fine candidate for new experimental things, again.
[23:07] <acerimmer> hendrikus: co-sign astraljava's suggestion.  Also, might wish to check with the ubuntu forums.
[23:07] <hendrikus> acerimmer, O.k i will install 10.04 LTS >>> Do you know I work with the Korg mr 1000 DSD recorder >>> this machine is amasing >>> did you ever heard a 1 bit recording with a sample rate of more then 5 miljoen /sec?
[23:08] <astraljava> hendrikus: The thing in this case, though, is not very likely to enhance. It's not like the regular distributions are resorting to using lesser drivers, for instance. Everybody are using the same.
[23:09] <astraljava> hendrikus: In essence, the best out there.
[23:09] <acerimmer> hendrikus: don't know Korg stuff.  sorry
[23:09] <astraljava> hendrikus: Please, do test with a live-cd before you install. I would not want to hear about regression in many things, and at worst no progress in the one problem area.
[23:09] <hendrikus> astraljava, And because verybody using the same itis easyer to make it working >>> but that not so
[23:10] <astraljava> hendrikus: With the limited resources of the FOSS circles, it is hard to make it work for everybody, unless everybody who have varying hardware provide support as well. Support can be bug reports, test reports etc.
[23:11] <hendrikus> astraljava, don 't worrie I don't come back to tell you that you make me a bad advice >>> Because that no true you helping me the best you can!
[23:11] <astraljava> hendrikus: I'm not worried about us, I'm worried about users. :)
[23:12] <hendrikus> astraljava, the better !
[23:12] <astraljava> We can handle criticism, but we don't want users to have reason to do so. :)
[23:12] <acerimmer> astraljava: ...OEM manufacturers support
[23:12] <hendrikus> O.k I start downloading the Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
[23:12] <holstein> hendrikus: im not suggestiing you use cheese... i suggesting you use pavucontrol
[23:12] <holstein> im just saying... all i did was install cheese, and i had video and sound
[23:13] <holstein> i ended up using something else
[23:13] <acerimmer> hendrikus: lemme know how it goes.  I'm on here lots of days.  Been with Ubuntu Studio for years and not dropping it any time soon.
[23:13] <astraljava> acerimmer: Good to hear! Thanks! :)
[23:14] <acerimmer> astraljava: Hey I LOVE UStudio...although I still would have preferred LXDE over XFCE.  Might have to try a custom build.
[23:16] <astraljava> acerimmer: Well, the concensus was that Xfce could provide a closer-to-previous work flow than any other DE, when GNOME 2 went away. That together with the excellent devs and contributors over at Xubuntu tipped the scale.
[23:16] <astraljava> And I must admit, I'm not sorry.
[23:17] <astraljava> I'm using Xubuntu on my main workhorse now.
[23:17] <acerimmer> astraljava: what % of porting from gnome to xfce can we expect in 12.04?
[23:18] <astraljava> acerimmer: Well, there are no huge changes, but we're deviating from the standard Xubuntu somewhat, and also the appearance will be more old skool Studio-like.
[23:19] <acerimmer> astraljava: nice!  I've made a point of saving the artwork from previous released, but my collection is incomplete.
[23:19] <astraljava> acerimmer: But there's one MAJOR difference from the previous releases. We're switching over to live DVD now.
[23:19] <hendrikus> acerimmer, I have to thank yo all for to helping me on my way >>> I will go >>> have i nice time together
[23:19] <astraljava> hendrikus: Good luck, and come back to report!
[23:19] <acerimmer> hendrikus: good luck hope to see your work soon!
[23:20] <acerimmer> astraljava: upgrading from vanilla to ustudio will still be an option?  or xubuntu to ustudio??
[23:21] <astraljava> acerimmer: The basics are still the same. Everything can be pulled in by meta-packages, just like previously.
[23:21] <hendrikus> acerimmer, I am a musician 432Hz Improvisation Singing htp://hendrikusgodvliet.appspot.com/sing.html
[23:23] <acerimmer> hendrikus: Mostly I podcast but I do make the occasional video: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7001421/Kokujin%20Chronicles%20Episode%20007.mp4
[23:33] <hendrikus> acerimmer, did you make the video in Blender?
[23:35] <acerimmer> hendrikus: no blender.  ihackintosh to use the Star Wars Text Generator > ffmpeg to render stills to video and overlay logos, openshot to mix audio/video
[23:36] <acerimmer> hendrikus: I learned a LOT of linux/UStudio for this one.  :)
[23:47] <hendrikus> acerimmer,  <<< openshot to mix audio/video>>> This can also be than with ffmpeg >>> ffmpeg -i movie.avi -i 026.WAV -ab 320k -sameq video+sound.avi
[23:48] <hendrikus> acerimmer, I burning the disk - so within 5 min I will leave this place --
[23:49] <acerimmer> hendrikus: yes, but then I would have missed out on the 3 days of headbanging b4 I could get OS's developer to tell me how to render still's to video.
[23:50] <hendrikus> acerimmer, O.k I understand you point >>> I go


[02:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Xubuntu Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[02:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Edubuntu Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[02:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Xubuntu Minimal amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[02:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: rust-asynchronous-codec (mantic-proposed/primary) [0.6.2-1]
[02:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: rust-core2 (mantic-proposed/primary) [0.4.0-1]
[03:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu MATE Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[06:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[06:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base arm64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[06:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base armhf [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[06:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base ppc64el [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[06:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base riscv64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[06:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base s390x [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[06:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Desktop arm64+raspi [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[07:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[07:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server arm64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[07:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server riscv64+icicle [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[07:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server riscv64+licheerv [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[07:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server riscv64+nezha [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[07:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server riscv64+unmatched [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[08:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[09:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Desktop (Legacy) amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[09:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Core amd64 edge [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[10:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu WSL [Mantic Daily] has been updated<PHONE_NUMBER>)
[12:31] <RikMills> ubuntu-release: could I get an ack on? LP: #2034941
[12:31] -ubottu:#ubuntu-release- Launchpad bug 2034941 in plasma-framework (Ubuntu) "[FFe] KDE frameworks 5.110.0 into Mantic archive" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2034941
[13:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Unity Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[13:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Cinnamon Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[15:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Budgie Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[16:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[18:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Studio DVD amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)
[21:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: rust-libwebp-sys (mantic-proposed/primary) [0.9.2-1]
[21:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: rust-qoi (mantic-proposed/primary) [0.4.1-1]
[21:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: rust-webp (mantic-proposed/primary) [0.2.5-1]
[22:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Kylin Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230909)


[05:27] <wafflejock> daftykins, if you see this and get back on try pinging me in the support channel still got that video problem, tried with the latest kernel too and see it's using the i915 from the 4.9 kernel but still no luck
[05:32] <Bashing-om> wafflejock: daftykins is still under exile in the support channel :(
[05:34] <wafflejock> Bashing-om, ah thanks for the heads up okay well daftykins ping me here then if you see this and have any ideas what else to dig into
[06:45] <ducasse> morning all
[07:44] <ilmaisin> hi
[07:44] <ilmaisin> would it be possible for some developer to take a look on this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1439771
[07:44] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1439771 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "wpa_supplicant[874]: dbus: Failed to construct signal after 'suspend'" [Medium,Confirmed]
[07:45] <ilmaisin> it's quite important as it does seem to apply to a wide range of hardware
[07:46] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:47] <ilmaisin> it looks like fixing bugs is not high priority for ubunutu
[07:52] <ducasse> ilmaisin: this is the wrong place to ask, you might want to try somewhere like #ubuntu-devel
[07:53] <ilmaisin> ducasse: okay, thanks
[11:20] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[12:19] <daftykins> hi all \o
[12:21] <EriC^^> hi daftykins
[12:21] <EriC^^> o/
[12:22] <daftykins> :D what's new EriC^^ ?
[12:22] <EriC^^> not much
[12:22] <EriC^^> reading up on how to paint right now
[12:23] <EriC^^> i want to paint the living room
[12:23] <EriC^^> :D
[12:25] <EriC^^> what about you?
[12:27] <EriC^^> damn i'm too hungry for this right now
[12:29] <daftykins> haha neat
[12:29] <daftykins> well i just put 3 smartphones up for sale last night and sold the first one already :O
[12:29] <daftykins> one of my screen repair successes :>
[12:31] <Ben64> what phone and which are left
[12:37] <EriC^^> cool
[13:08] <pauljw> Hi everyone
[13:11] <daftykins> \o
[13:11] <daftykins> afty
[13:17] <pauljw> o/
[13:17] <daftykins> how goes it sir?
[13:17] <pauljw> doing fine, you?
[13:18] <daftykins> yeah good :) put up some phones last night for sale and got rid of one already!
[13:19] <daftykins> Ben64: not sure if my replies got through btw, since Wilhelm died - Nexus 5 32GB and a HTC One X+ 64GB are what i have left
[13:19] <daftykins> sold a Samsung Galaxy S3 16GB this morn
[13:19] <pauljw> :)
[13:20] <daftykins> oh i should call a telco and see if they still take old ones for recycling, got a tonne of junk age dumphones and mildly educated phones that can go
[13:38] <daftykins> alrighty i should consider some other activities for the day, later folks \o
[13:40] <pauljw> l8er
[13:41] <BluesKaj> 'Morniing pauljw, notice how some vpn servers are recognized by IRC and others are masked
[13:42] <pauljw> i've noticed that
[13:45] <BluesKaj> PIA is a Freenode supporter, whether they do it with money or other methods seems to be a secret
[13:45] <pauljw> :)
[13:45] <BluesKaj> or other means would probly fit
[13:48] <pauljw> i'm happy that they do support it, how doesn't matter to me, so long as i can connect while using vpn.
[13:48] <pauljw> sites that block vpn tick me off
[13:54] <BluesKaj> netflix is blocking some vpns the Canadians use to access programs that aren't available here...I checked out the US netflix programming and it still didn't do much for me  ;-)
[13:59] <BluesKaj> but I'm an old fogey and alot of stuff on regular tv isn't my cuppa tea either
[13:59] <pauljw> i know that's the excuse they're using, people just need to stop using or buying any form of music or movies for six months and all this would miraculously disappear.  they think they're losing money to illicit use of their material now?  let em go 6mos with zero income and see how they act towards their customers.
[14:01] <pauljw> i don't care for much of what's on tv, that's why i am always online.  and i listen to my collection of CDs that i paid for.
[14:02] <BluesKaj> well, it 's the rights to to different shows that various countries don't have, an antiquated legality in thei day and age
[14:03] <BluesKaj> this
[14:06] <pauljw> i agree
[14:08] <pauljw> but many or most of these regulations are the direct result of industry lobbying and if the industry's bottom line were seriously impacted, they'd fix the problem.
[14:09] <BluesKaj> it's just plain old greed setup by filmakers' lawyers and Congress in the US ,and Parliament in other countries 100yrs ago
[14:10] <BluesKaj> lawyers is operative word
[14:18] <pauljw> yep
[14:21] <BluesKaj> speaking of cds , I noticed some the flac files I compressed from  collection sound crappy, so I rekonverted them to wav and the sound is a bit better ...less proicessing I guess.
[14:22] <pauljw> interesting, i use ogg here.
[14:22] <BluesKaj> oops reconverted even ...the kde influence is becoming embedded in me
[14:23] <pauljw> heheh
[14:26] <BluesKaj> think i'll reinstall my old maudio soundcard. I used to be a pita to switch audio outputs in VLC to watch movies due to my obsession with using the correct digital audio formats available, but now with kodi that problem is solved
[14:27] <pauljw> nice
[14:31] <BluesKaj> never really cared for the the "aidio suite" all in one appraoch to media , but after setting up and experimenting with kodi I became favorably impressed with it's capabilities and ease of use ...not totally convinced yet but it looks promising
[14:31] <BluesKaj> audio suite
[14:32] <BluesKaj> media suite is a better term
[14:34] <pauljw> i know you've been messing around with it for a while, are you using your pi to run it?  i'm close to going that route here simply because the pi fascinates me and a media center would be a practical excuse to buy one.
[14:35] <pauljw> i just want a low power, fanless setup for the living room or i could use a desktop in the basement and run a cable to the living room... :)
[14:40] <BluesKaj> pauljw, kodi works well on the rpi3...but my wifi isn't up to handling full bown DD or DTS  and Hidef video simultaneously from my media server,...think a proper ethernet connection would probly work better
[14:41] <pauljw> good to hear, ya, i imagine that ethernet would be best.
[14:41] <BluesKaj> my router might not be upt to the wifi task
[14:42] <pauljw> i stream bluetooth from my laptop to my stereo and that works great, but that's nothing like a movie.
[14:44] <BluesKaj> but I have kodi on my media server directly connected to our tv for  the full movie experience. I don't notice any noise from the pc during movies etc
[14:44] <BluesKaj> connected to our tv and audio system
[14:46] <BluesKaj> but i think you're right about using ethernet instead of wifi if possible
[15:21] <EriC^^> hey Bashing-om :D
[15:25] <Bashing-om> My man ! EriC^^ Hoz eric in Beruit ?
[15:27] <EriC^^> good good :D
[15:27] <EriC^^> yourself?
[15:29] <Bashing-om> Oh good for the most part .. Fighting with new gear on old hardware . Awaiting a replacement Bios chip see if then I can use the new nVidia GT 710 card and a Smasung SSD . It's been UnFun trying to get them to work .
[15:32] <EriC^^> aha
[15:32] <EriC^^> the bios doesn't like the ssd and nvidia?
[15:35] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: Nope .. the card has no support in 14.04 (but the mesa driver is fine here ) .. freezes with nouveau in 16.04 .. and the SSD produces ATA errors when booting . Sure hope the newer version of Bios helps .
[15:35] <BluesKaj> Bashing-om, odd I have samsung evo 850 ssd and nvidia 8400gs here on an 8yrold pc and it all works
[15:36] <Bashing-om> BluesKaj: I had expected it all to just work ! .. running a 2007 dual core Athlon who's bios is 5 versions behind ( if it works do not fix it !) ..
[15:36] <EriC^^> Bashing-om: cool, when do you receive it?
[15:37] <Bashing-om> rtStill awaiting the Bios chip .. choose to replace rather than flash present chip .. easier and safer !
[15:38] <BluesKaj> Bashing-om, wow, 5 versions behind ..understood, sounds like you have a grip on the problem at least :-)
[15:40] <Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Oh just a proces to get the hardware to interface . I really do not want to have to discard this ole box .. kinda fond of it . Besides, I am cheap and do not want to afford the monies and time to build another box :)
[15:42] <BluesKaj> Bashing-om, I read you loud and clear. gonna make this old pc run untill it gives up the ghost as well
[15:45] <Bashing-om> Well, Yeah ! ... I installed 16.04 some time back prior to changing the graphic's card .. and was plased that this ole system even ran 16.04 ! Meant I was good 'til at least the year 2021 .... But but but the system just pukes on the new mVidia card .
[15:45] <Bashing-om> pleased*
[16:23] <BluesKaj> Bashing-om, did you have to replace your PSU for the new card, some require a power increase over the std PSUs that come with pcs
[16:26] <Bashing-om> BluesKaj: No .. I have a 750 watt PS ( over provisioned for the future when I built this box ) .
[16:26] <BluesKaj>  cool
[16:27] <daftykins> :)
[16:27] <daftykins> i just got given some of the devil's hardware, an iPad 2 free o0
[16:28] <EriC^^> lol
[16:28] <EriC^^> i got screwed on the iphone
[16:29] <BluesKaj> ok, a non std box ...often thought of building one, but my electronixs experience is mostly with audio kits etc, a bit leary about tackling a pc
[16:29] <EriC^^> i wanted the 6s since half a year, and i thought i'll wait for the 7 cause it's almost out, then got the samsung when the battery was starting to inflate
[16:29] <EriC^^> and then the iphone 7 came out, and here they want $1200 or so for the jet black one!
[16:30] <EriC^^> so i'm waiting now
[16:30] <daftykins> BluesKaj: yeah like with many things it's not even the 'lego' of putting it together but knowing all the gubbins to sort it out when it doesn't behave :D
[16:31] <daftykins> EriC^^: ouch, although i've already seen articles of that devilspawn device losing its' markings to cases XD
[16:31] <EriC^^> losing its' markings to cases?
[16:31] <EriC^^> what's that mean? :D
[16:31] <daftykins> yep all the logos on the back
[16:31] <BluesKaj> daftykins, or doing a lot of research before ordering
[16:31] <EriC^^> oh
[16:32] <daftykins> you can't go too far wrong these days with parts :>
[16:32] <Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Instructions are generally provided and with care can be followed . Just many times tedious and an act of devotion .
[16:32] <EriC^^> i built a pc with my dad when i was about 16 i think
[16:33] <EriC^^> it wasn't difficult (the guy had wrote the instructions on a piece of paper though)
[16:33] <BluesKaj> Bashing-om, daftykins, ok that sounds encouraging
[16:34] <Bashing-om> Just download th manual for your current motherboard. you will see the instructions ( wiring) are prerry thorough .
[16:35] <Bashing-om> pretty*
[16:35] <daftykins> i wouldn't buy AMD though.
[16:36] <BluesKaj> no defintely intel i5 cpu at a minimum and nvidia gpu
[16:37] <daftykins> new generation out in the new year of course (Kaby Lake 7xxx)
[16:37] <BluesKaj> learned my lesson with amd
[16:38] <BluesKaj> well, I'm cheap, don't overkill for what i do on a pc
[16:38] <BluesKaj> not a gamer
[16:38] <Bashing-om> What's wrong with AMD ??.. the are 2nd, and have to try harder and build better . IMHO .
[16:40] <BluesKaj> Bashing-om, it's mostly their graphics aren't as linux friendly , driverwise
[16:41] <daftykins> Bashing-om: what BluesKaj said but also they're miles behind, the new Zen chips might finally compete though
[16:41] <daftykins> current AMDs on the desktop with a discrete graphics card is fine if you're on a real budget, but i tend to tell people they should do it once and do it right instead of giving into budget concerns
[16:42] <BluesKaj> my laptop has an I3 cpu and it's wicked fast vs my desktop, even with a spinner hdd
[16:42] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Was look'n - maybe have to replace this mother board - .. will be $500 USD for the new 8 core AMD board .
[16:44] <BluesKaj> ok  bbl...local news
[16:44] <daftykins> Bashing-om: lol ouch, that's a whole new build with 8 to 16GB RAM cost
[16:49] <Bashing-om> daftykins: UH Huh .. But If that board were instaled be good for several years .. what ever the future might hold ( the time I bet is comming that 64 Gigs of ram will not be enough ) .
[16:49] <daftykins> did you mean $50?
[16:49] <daftykins> because 500 i would not even consider it :>
[16:50] <EriC^^> 8 core or 8 thread?
[16:50]  * EriC^^ core fetish
[16:50] <Bashing-om> Well .. the board, CPU, and ram .. $500 all told .
[16:52] <Bashing-om> But ! For what I do now-a-days ... this duial core does me well .. now if only I can get the nVidia card and the SSD to integrate well .
[16:56] <daftykins> oh i see, thought you meant board only and the existing kit
[16:56] <daftykins> AMDs are a bit weird so it's more like 8 x 0.5 than 8 core :D
[16:59] <Bashing-om> I have looked just a bit at intel also ..just that I am the more familiar, and therefore the more comfortable, with AMD .
[17:00] <daftykins> i used to be the same, but i abandoned them after the Athlon64 and never looked back
[17:00] <daftykins> intel: chipsets that work
[17:00] <daftykins> maybe not so much when it comes to on-CPU graphics in Linux, what with Linux being Linux ;)
[17:02] <Bashing-om> Well, like you, I do have a preference for PCI graphic's cards . I do like options options options.
[17:04] <ducasse> hi guys and bots
[17:06]  * Bashing-om recognizes one ducasse // still up and functional ?
[17:07] <ducasse> yes, just finishing up all i needed to get done today, working on some translations tomorrow.
[17:08] <Bashing-om> You are a good man . Do what we can for our operating system ecosystem of choice :)
[17:09] <ducasse> i can't code, so i do translation into norwegian for a couple of projects. new claws mail coming next month, so that's what i'm doing tomorrow. :)
[17:10] <ducasse> (well, i _can_ code a little, but i wouldn't want to share it)
[17:10] <daftykins> :>
[17:10] <daftykins> i debated that once
[17:11] <daftykins> maybe i can make a Guernsey specific version, but then i was horrified how my bug about the wrong keyboard region took 8 years to be solved
[17:11] <daftykins> so i was not best impressed at FOSS at the time ;)
[17:12] <Bashing-om> Me. I devote the majority of my time to helping .. with the vindication that I help myself first .. in this for what I can learn :)
[17:13] <ducasse> i filed a fedora bug (i've only tested it briefly in a vm, but found a bug) about 3 years ago, still don't think it's been fixed :)
[17:14] <daftykins> heh, was it a showstopper?
[17:16] <ducasse> no, far from - mostly cosmetic. i get bug triage, but it would probably have been a one-line fix.
[17:17] <Bashing-om> No showstoppers for me, if the system ain't got the ram, ain't got the CPU power -- lubuntu ->> DSL here it comes !
[17:17] <ducasse> as for fedora i just didn't really like it. these days i'm entertaining the idea of putting arch on my laptop...
[17:19] <EriC^^> "the good thing in Lunix platform that your system is protected from pirates and spies"
[17:19] <EriC^^> this is priceless
[17:20] <daftykins> uh oh, got an #ubuntu special case on the go?
[17:20] <EriC^^> ahoi me mates :D
[17:20] <ducasse> 'it is based on command shells'
[17:20] <ducasse> wow
[17:21] <ducasse> aaaand matrix quotes :D
[17:21] <EriC^^> daftykins: somebody new joined the channel and another person is explaining the lunix ways
[17:21] <daftykins> i think Sylvester Stallone said those are kept beside the three sea shells
[17:21] <daftykins> ah right :) blind leading the blind style
[17:22] <EriC^^> "if you want to go to the hole of rabit you have to follow me"
[17:22] <EriC^^> lol
[17:23] <daftykins> if you give it 5 minutes and shout "CHANGE PLACES!" all hell with break loose
[17:23] <daftykins> ;)
[17:23] <EriC^^> had to paste that one
[17:25] <Bashing-om> For some reason the nick Kaddouri rings a bad bell from the past .
[17:26] <daftykins> i used to get such bell rings, i figure it's more #ubuntu PTSD ;)
[17:28] <Bashing-om> Well possible that PTSD - gives the benefit of the doubt .
[17:29] <ducasse> my first couple of jobs were tech support, i still get flashbacks and nightmares :)
[17:30] <ducasse> "there's only two jobs that call their customers 'users'" :)
[17:31]  * daftykins blinks
[17:31] <daftykins> what's the second?
[17:31] <ducasse> drug dealing.
[17:31] <daftykins> hahaha
[17:33] <Bashing-om> Back in the day .. SPC ( RailRoad) became SPRINT. I was a technician and one of the chores that was shared was customer support .. YUK ! when the duty fell to me .
[17:37] <ducasse> some questions just make you want to go and smack them in the face, it's the same in #ubuntu.
[17:37] <daftykins> oof!
[17:38] <ducasse> "did you even *consider* googling this first?"
[17:40] <Bashing-om> I tend to be very helpful .. so long as the 'user' is also trying to help themselves . I do recall the struggle to become PC aware .
[17:42] <daftykins> have you folks noticed that the trend with the youngsters is to claim to have been "googling for hours" ?
[17:42] <ducasse> it's just that some people don't _want_ to learn, they just want the fix, and next time they've got the same problem they're going to come back and ask again.
[17:42] <daftykins> and i swear it's a straight up lie every time ;)
[17:42] <ducasse> +1
[17:42] <daftykins> ducasse: yep i think that's what these supposed 'digital native' millennials are becoming
[17:43] <daftykins> older folks claim that the youngsters are getting better with tech, but i know it's the opposite :>
[17:43] <ducasse> absolutely, they are just as dumb as their parents >:-)
[17:44] <Bashing-om> Andddd .. I have other things I could be doing  .. patience then wears thin if I think I being lied to .. or the end user not putting forth the effort that it does take .
[17:45] <daftykins> *nod* i needed to learn to walk away a bit better :>
[17:46] <Bashing-om> Hey, I do remember a slide rule .. when was the last time I picked one up ?
[17:57] <ducasse> here's a good example:
[17:57] <ducasse> 14:12 <codfection> its too much to read. can you please tell me what specific do I need to fix
[17:57] <daftykins> yep that's an ignore right there, in fact that gives me ringing bells of a troll, too
[17:58] <daftykins> i definitely think it's about this time of year they start coming in from the summer
[17:58] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Yeah ! I do recall that ^ one ! .. did I ever loose interest quick !
[17:58] <ducasse> that particular guy is going into one channel to get a problem fixed, and immediately jumps to another channel to have someone there fix his next problem.
[17:59] <daftykins> sounds about right!
[17:59] <ducasse> i swear he's never googled anything in his life.
[17:59] <daftykins> surprised it isn't cross-posting the first ;)
[17:59] <daftykins> webchat user too?
[18:00] <ducasse> never checked, but actually think he's said he uses weechat but doesn't like it because it's too 'complicated'
[18:02] <daftykins> usually the user's host would be weechat@blah if it were
[18:03] <daftykins> my money was going to be on webchat
[18:05] <ducasse> he's offline now anyway, so i can't check.
[18:09] <ducasse> still, he's the type of user that needs to be told to try sorting things out himself first. oh, and he _does_ often crosspost :)
[18:27] <daftykins> those need the cannon -> sun treatment
[19:28] <Bashing-om> OK. slow .. nap time ! .. be bck in a spell .
[19:28] <daftykins> \o enjoy
[19:28] <Bashing-om> back*
[19:30] <ducasse> i need to go to bed soon myself, my eyes are getting tired.
[19:32] <BluesKaj> ducasse, that user is well known for his demanding attitude , most support chats are aware pf his tactics
[19:32] <daftykins> shame the ops are inactive as always ;)
[19:33] <ducasse> BluesKaj: ok, thanks for the warning. i'm shutting down soon anyway.
[19:33] <BluesKaj> ducasse, right, sleep well :-)
[19:34] <ducasse> thanks :)
[19:34] <daftykins> \o nn
[19:34] <ducasse> daftykins: ttyl
[20:02] <pauljw> biab
[21:57] <Bashing-om> Back on duty .. and all caught up .
[22:03] <daftykins> \o
[22:04] <Bashing-om> daftykins: ty .. Got back in time for it to slow down once more .
[22:05] <daftykins> hahaha
[22:05] <daftykins> ideal timing
[22:09] <pauljw> bbl, dinner time


[15:13] <cnd> dandrader: pong
[15:20] <dandrader> cnd, it was about access rights for making a new release of the libraries etc. But I got it sorted out
[15:20] <cnd> ok


[16:41] <teward> anyone able to force-end a meeting in #ubuntu-meeting?  The chair of the meeting disappeared so we're having difficulties ending the meeting
[16:44] <teward> (the bot won't let anyone close it)
[16:45] <k1l_> i dont know if Pici is around
[16:45] <Pici> Mikaela: around?
[16:45] <Pici> I am, but I'm not very knowledgable about meetingology
[16:45] <Mikaela> checking
[16:45] <Pici> ty
[16:48] <Mikaela> teward: possibly done, I am not sure on those commands, I fear it removed your current logs too
[16:48] <Mikaela> https://zero.mikaela.info/?e72b10caf164a1c7#K4FV0mjY5Ji1yYB7RWpfeiQcdb5DEOBlp9+hiWs8JK0=
[16:48] <teward> it might've, i'll pull IRC logs then
[16:49] <Mikaela> afterwards thinking I should possibly have done "savemeetings" before attempting to "deletemeeting" even if "if save is given, safe the meeting first, defaults to saving", what is that even supposed to mean?
[16:49] <teward> heh
[16:49]  * Mikaela will be wiser next time then.
[16:52] <k1l_> or adding another chair. that can close it?
[17:07] <teward> Mikaela: thanks for poking it though :)
[17:08] <Mikaela> you're welcome
[17:14] <Mikaela> correction: meetingology is wiser than me and wrote the logs to http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ even if it forgot to mention it


[22:31] <Goldenscorp> pi,g
[22:31] <Goldenscorp> ping
[22:33] <Neo31> pong Goldenscorp
[22:33] <crack3r> pong Goldenscorp
[22:33] <Goldenscorp> slt Neo31
[22:38] <r3zguin0> slt crack3r
[22:38] <crack3r> xD i see what you did there
[22:39] <r3zguin0> what ru talking about ? :p
[22:42] <crack3r> nada
[22:42] <crack3r> rien lol


[16:59] <holstein> the studio-ers are moving in ;)
[16:59] <astraljava> Holla guys an' gals. Are we ready to rock?
[16:59] <astraljava> Or is it hola? I always forget.
[16:59] <craigs63> hola back
[16:59] <falktx> hey
[17:00] <astraljava> I think we're on.
[17:01] <astraljava> #startmeeting Ubuntu Studio development monthly
[17:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Sun Sep  4 17:01:12 2011 UTC.  The chair is astraljava. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[17:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:01] <astraljava> #chair astraljava
[17:01] <meetingology> Current chairs: astraljava
[17:01] <astraljava> Welcome everyone!
[17:01] <astraljava> For starters, I'd like to say that I'm excited to see some new activity in this project.
[17:02] <holstein> o/
[17:02] <astraljava> Welcome all the new contributors, whole-heartedly!
[17:02] <astraljava> Not forgetting the old ones, of course. :)
[17:02] <astraljava> Okay, as you probably already recall now, you can find the agenda and all other related information at:
[17:03] <astraljava> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4
[17:03] <astraljava> But here's the agenda for today, anyway:
[17:03] <astraljava> Call Meeting to Order
[17:03] <astraljava> Old Business
[17:03] <astraljava> website udpate - new website is impractical right now, ScottL will see about updating current one
[17:03] <astraljava> thanks everyone involved in Beta1 testing, especially astraljava
[17:03] <astraljava> New Business
[17:03] <astraljava> XFCE migration - how is it going?
[17:03] <astraljava> lightdm - is it working now with background?
[17:03] <astraljava> new audience - musicians moving to and unfamiliar with Linux?
[17:03] <astraljava> Beta2 testing is coming
[17:04] <astraljava> new meeting schedule for twice a month (in contrast to once a month) for oneiric+1 ?
[17:04] <astraljava> Goals for Oneiric+1
[17:04] <astraljava> live dvd
[17:04] <astraljava> lowlatency kernel
[17:04] <astraljava> new UI or theme for xfce
[17:04] <astraljava> new documentation
[17:04] <astraljava> links/documentation on desktop/menu for new users?
[17:04] <astraljava> how can we make is more simple, clean, easy for users?
[17:04] <astraljava> Team structure / Strategy document
[17:04] <astraljava> Any Other Business (all/anyone)
[17:04] <astraljava> Next Meeting Time/Location
[17:04] <astraljava> Next Meeting Chair
[17:04] <astraljava> I think we're done with the first, so let's hit it on.
[17:04] <astraljava> #topic Old Business
[17:04] <astraljava> Hmm... did the bot die on me?
[17:04] <astraljava> Oh good, there it is.
[17:05] <astraljava> #subtopic website update
[17:05] <holstein> so, thats bagged for a while?
[17:05] <holstein> i was assuming the work load might be similar to fix the current one, or just drop in the new one
[17:05] <scott-upstairs> sorry, i'm a dork and i'm slow and stupid
[17:05] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Would you like to go on that one?
[17:05] <astraljava> No worries, we knew. :D
[17:06] <holstein> the new one seemed so ready to go last time i looked
[17:06] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, sorry, i missed the topic
[17:06] <scott-upstairs> website?
[17:06] <astraljava> website update
[17:06] <holstein> and my rationale was, it cant be *more* broken than what we have
[17:06] <scott-upstairs> suggestion is to use the "new" one that jorge made?
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> let me play with the old one first and test something
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> if its crap i'll see if i can get the new one over
[17:07] <falktx> is there a screenshot of the new proposal?
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> but i'm no expert with website and especially with part of the website in launchpad
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> falktx, hold one
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> one
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> on
[17:07] <holstein> i mean, i dont think we should waste time doing anything to the old one now
[17:07] <shnatsel|busy> edubuntu guys seem to be happy with their blog-like website - you might want to try it
[17:07] <holstein> even if that means sitting on it for a bit
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> http://www.myhaiku.org/ falktx
[17:08] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: i like the blog like style
[17:08] <falktx> scott-upstairs: looks cool!
[17:08] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, we had consideredd various other things, like hosting our own, using wordpress, etc
[17:08] <holstein> but, we are already somewhat commited to this idea
[17:08] <scott-upstairs> but in terms of maintence we felt that staying with current hosting and drupal was the way to go
[17:09] <scott-upstairs> i'll see what i can do
[17:09] <holstein> yeah... thats true
[17:09] <holstein> scott-upstairs: let us know if we can do anything
[17:09] <holstein> i can put a drupal box online here, but i dont think thats the issue
[17:09] <holstein> moving the database over is a drag right?
[17:10] <scott-upstairs> holstein, the database will basically not really be needed i think because the new website doesn't really have any content
[17:10] <scott-upstairs> i think
[17:10] <holstein> COOL
[17:10] <falktx> scott-upstairs: I think too, this seems like pure html
[17:10] <holstein> that would be easier for us then
[17:10] <scott-upstairs> but my concern is the mechanics of making new pages....the old site has many pages but the new one doesn't
[17:10]  * falktx loves the new website proposal
[17:10] <holstein> scott-upstairs: good
[17:10] <scott-upstairs> i want to test on the old one and see if we can add new pages
[17:10] <holstein> i dont think we need a bunch of pages
[17:10] <scott-upstairs> without having to edit launchpad code
[17:11] <holstein> links to wikis
[17:11] <holstein> a one page clean site would be great right now
[17:11] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: wikis suck. make them WISYWIG or use Google Docs.
[17:11] <scott-upstairs> i just want to know how to manipulate things before we drop one that kinda works and has content for one that has two pages and no content
[17:11] <falktx> scott-upstairs: I know a way around this, as I used it before
[17:11] <scott-upstairs> falktx, for which?
[17:11] <falktx> scott-upstairs: we create a simple xml file containing the news, and a simple php function will auto-read-and-make pages from it (news only)
[17:11] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, how would we make them WISYWIG?
[17:12] <scott-upstairs> falktx, okay
[17:12] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: AFAIK MoinMoin has a plugin for that
[17:12] <falktx> scott-upstairs: I've done it before, it's easy for me
[17:12] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: im talking about the current ubuntu wikis
[17:12] <holstein> they are what we got
[17:12] <holstein> anything we have local is a duplication of efforts
[17:12] <holstein> and would be confusing (in my opinion)
[17:12] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, are you saying we try to pull content from the wiki into the website and make is pretty then?
[17:12] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: for user-editable content they totally suck.
[17:13] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: sure, but that ubuntu-wide
[17:13] <holstein> thast*
[17:13] <falktx> holstein: is it possible to put the wiki into an iframe?
[17:13] <holstein> its not something we can change now
[17:13]  * scott-upstairs thinks that edubuntu is doing that already
[17:13] <scott-upstairs> falktx, what is an iframe?
[17:13] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: artwork team tried to work that around
[17:13] <falktx> scott-upstairs: a html frame (part of the site), rendered as the site, but that actually comes from another place
[17:13] <holstein> im sure we can, but we have to be sure the new user knows whats what
[17:13] <holstein> and why they are being redirected
[17:14] <holstein> then, we have to maintain both...
[17:14] <scott-upstairs> falktx, yes, i would like to do this!
[17:14] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: they failed because Canonical doesn't care about community artwork team
[17:14] <holstein> shnatsel|busy:  :/
[17:14] <scott-upstairs> as holstein said, i don't want to duplicate effort
[17:14] <holstein> yup
[17:14] <holstein> we *cant* do that now
[17:14] <holstein> we dont have the resources to waste effort
[17:14] <holstein> we have wikis, and forums
[17:14] <holstein> it would be work to leave them, and implement something on our own
[17:14] <scott-upstairs> okay so that plan is i will see what i can do to move the new site, then work with falktx to see about using the iframe bit to display existing wiki information in the website
[17:15] <holstein> not that we cant do that at some point
[17:15] <scott-upstairs> s/that/the
[17:15] <scott-upstairs> holstein, ^^^
[17:15] <holstein> scott-upstairs: i like that
[17:15] <holstein> even if its just links to the current stuff
[17:15] <holstein> thats fine with me
[17:15] <astraljava> Okay, sounds good. Perhaps we should move on to other things now?
[17:15] <scott-upstairs> please
[17:15] <falktx> wait a bit
[17:15] <scott-upstairs> oh... :)
[17:15] <astraljava> falktx: Go ahead.
[17:15] <falktx> we need to make sure the ubuntu wiki supports this
[17:16] <falktx> some site do, others don't
[17:16] <scott-upstairs> falktx, edubuntu is doing this already some how
[17:16] <falktx> scott-upstairs: website?
[17:16] <scott-upstairs> aye
[17:16] <falktx> please post an example link
[17:16] <scott-upstairs> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio
[17:17] <scott-upstairs> this also is apparently better at SEO as well
[17:17] <scott-upstairs> i haven't look at the source so i'm not sure, but they have all Ubuntu Studio edits too quickly (IMO) for copying of vast tracts of text to their servers
[17:17] <holstein> as long as it doesnt add an edit point, and we can handle the maintanence, im all for it
[17:18] <shnatsel|busy> looks cool indeed
[17:18] <falktx> well, I don't think this is really easy stuff
[17:18] <falktx> we should contact them, they will surely help though
[17:19] <scott-upstairs> REALLY good example, our agenda for today:  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4
[17:19] <shnatsel|busy> screenshots.ubuntu.com is just screenshots.debian.com, I'm pretty sure one can add a custom CSS to that system
[17:19] <falktx> scott-upstairs: I guess the new website would have a "wiki" tab that pushes the US wiki, right?
[17:19] <scott-upstairs> falktx, i don't really know
[17:19] <scott-upstairs> all links from edubuntu point to the real site
[17:19] <scott-upstairs> but let's discuss this after we get the new website up, that will take long enough already
[17:20] <falktx> ah, they are probably accessing the database and creating his own pages
[17:20] <astraljava> #action scott-upstairs to look into moving the new site, and work with falktx re: using iframes for wiki access
[17:20] <meetingology> ACTION: scott-upstairs to look into moving the new site, and work with falktx re: using iframes for wiki access
[17:20] <falktx> scott-upstairs: that is probably a custom mediawiki theme, or some other wiki engine
[17:20] <holstein> w00t
[17:20] <shnatsel|busy> falktx: MoinMoin
[17:20] <falktx> ah, ok
[17:21] <shnatsel|busy> http://moinmo.in
[17:21] <falktx> shnatsel|busy: we'll just need a custom theme to match the new website
[17:21] <astraljava> Okay, just a side-note, could we finish our speaks with double-dots (..), so the chair will know we're done with the topic?
[17:21] <astraljava> I mean, when you're done with your soap-box for the time, add that on an otherwise empty line.
[17:21] <scott-upstairs> okay
[17:21] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:21] <shnatsel|busy> ..
[17:21] <falktx> all good now I think
[17:21] <falktx> next please
[17:22] <astraljava> Thanks, it will make the chair's life easier in the future, as we're growing now.
[17:22] <falktx> ;)
[17:22] <astraljava> #subtopic Beta1 testing
[17:22] <astraljava> Thanks for everyone involved! We got a (not-so) beautiful release for it.
[17:22] <astraljava> #topic New Business
[17:22] <astraljava> #subtopic XFCE migration
[17:23] <astraljava> We have finally gotted rid of unity \m/
[17:23] <holstein> :)
[17:23] <falktx> astraljava: were the fixed-menu pushed to the repos?
[17:23] <astraljava> On the otherhand, our sessions still look like crap.
[17:23] <holstein> hehe
[17:23] <scott-upstairs> yay, congratulations astraljava for your efforts to accomplish this
[17:23] <holstein> hey, its a work in progress
[17:23] <astraljava> Which leads to falktx's question, no it is not.
[17:23] <astraljava> I'll try to get it done tonight.
[17:24]  * scott-upstairs was going to download a dialy image to test lightdm and menu
[17:24] <astraljava> Weekend didn't really go as planned.
[17:24] <scott-upstairs> i'll wait a few more days then, astraljava please let me know when it is pushed so i can test
[17:24] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Will do.
[17:24] <falktx> they should appear in the oneiric-changes mailiing list
[17:25] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:25] <astraljava> We will need to look at how our session integrates with XFCE desktop.
[17:25] <astraljava> I can look into this too, but are there others who could assist (or better yet, take over?)
[17:26] <scott-upstairs> didirock helped me last time with 'ubuntu-classic' (i.e. gnome-panel) vs. 'ubuntu' (i.e. unity)
[17:26] <falktx> I never got a working ISO install, so I don't know how it looks. can someone explain in detail what is the issue?
[17:26] <scott-upstairs> falktx, when you select your user name it defaults to some other session that xfce
[17:26] <holstein> astraljava: it would be nice to get the xubuntu guy help
[17:26] <astraljava> falktx: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/(X)ubuntu_studio_cropped.png
[17:26] <scott-upstairs> you have to select xfce for it to work
[17:26] <holstein> i could do that prolly
[17:26] <holstein> i have no idea how to do it on my own
[17:26] <falktx> uh, ugly
[17:26] <astraljava> That's how it looks like now. There are no studio icons, no desktop wallpaper etc.
[17:26] <holstein> but if someone will help, i'll try and organize it
[17:27] <shnatsel|busy> I think I can help
[17:27] <shnatsel|busy> Didrocks helped me with that already
[17:27] <falktx> astraljava: can't we just copy xubuntu-default-settings there?
[17:27] <astraljava> holstein: shnatsel|busy: Excellent! Can we assign this task to you?
[17:27] <holstein> sure
[17:27] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, that link was for the menu
[17:27] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: just let me know what i can do... and take it easy on me :)
[17:27] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: Switch default X session? OK, assign me to the bug.
[17:27] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Sure, but you can see that none of the standard icons aren't replaced by ours.
[17:28] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: The thing is, we only have XFCE session in the greeter.
[17:28] <scott-upstairs> oh, i thought you meant that for the xfce session
[17:28] <astraljava> So none of our stuff will be loaded.
[17:28] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: you have some custom stuff beyound XFCE?
[17:29] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Yes, our theming should have stuff that replaces the standard stuff. But we can discuss about that on our own channel after the meeting.
[17:29] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: I've worked only with gnome-session and switching sessions in LightDM, I've never configured xfce4-session
[17:29] <shnatsel|busy> oh, and switching them in GDM too, obviously...
[17:30] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Okay, but are you willing to look into that?
[17:30] <astraljava> falktx: Good question, one that I don't have an answer to at this moment.
[17:30] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: OK, I'll try
[17:30] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, that would be awesome
[17:30] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Let's just be vocal about it on the channel, so others can chime in if you get stuck.
[17:31] <scott-upstairs> cory should have _something_ done, perhaps we should email him ?
[17:31] <holstein> scott-upstairs: about XFCE?
[17:31] <scott-upstairs> aye!
[17:31] <holstein> i think he wanted to kill it right?
[17:31] <astraljava> #action holstein and shnatsel|busy to look into utilizing studio icons etc. on desktop session.
[17:31] <meetingology> ACTION: holstein and shnatsel|busy to look into utilizing studio icons etc. on desktop session.
[17:31] <scott-upstairs> if cory has something started no point in shnatsel|busy having to rediscover anything
[17:31] <holstein> wont hurt to ask \
[17:31] <scott-upstairs> i'll send him an email then
[17:31] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Good point, so can you ask him?
[17:31] <falktx> I think xfce is just not using the US theme
[17:32] <falktx> if it uses the theme, the icons will look good, i guess
[17:32] <astraljava> #action scott-upstairs to ask Cory about any pending work on theming the session
[17:32] <meetingology> ACTION: scott-upstairs to ask Cory about any pending work on theming the session
[17:32] <scott-upstairs> he said something about it's easy because xfce uses an XML file
[17:33] <astraljava> ..'s ?
[17:33] <shnatsel|busy> custom icon themes in XFCE?! do they have any link to sessions at all?!
[17:33] <falktx> hm, confused
[17:34] <falktx> I was talking about the screenshot, were the icons are not right
[17:34] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: I believe that's what should get done while you select a session in the lightdm greeter.
[17:34] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:34] <astraljava> ...or rather, after you've selected it, and logged in.
[17:35] <astraljava> But again, we can discuss the technicals on our channel afterwards.
[17:35] <astraljava> ..
[17:35] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: in GNOME it's just a default setting. It's not dependent on sessions (however sessions could change that before Natty)
[17:36] <falktx> I know this for sure, xfce uses some different icon names than gnome, so a little symlinks will be needed in the US icon theme
[17:36] <holstein> which would be easy?
[17:36] <holstein> right?
[17:36] <holstein> and that would give us our current icons in XFCE?
[17:36] <holstein> that would be nice
[17:36] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: I've ported Humanity to LibreOffice. No more icon porting for me.
[17:36] <falktx> yes
[17:37] <holstein> i think a good goal would be to change as little as possible
[17:37] <falktx> holstein: I did that for kxstudio kde-gnome compatibility
[17:37] <holstein> when folks fire it up, it looks like gnome2-ish
[17:37] <falktx> yep
[17:37] <falktx> holstein: that is the point I guess
[17:37] <holstein> falktx: for now at least
[17:37] <falktx> have the interface looking like in previous releases
[17:37] <holstein> the least amount of change
[17:37] <holstein> i like the look/feel anyways
[17:38] <holstein> and i think others do too
[17:38] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Noted, thanks.
[17:38] <scott-upstairs> let's discuss this at length later
[17:38] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:38] <shnatsel|busy> I personally think that US should not invent its own themes; I'm a strong believer in division of labor
[17:38] <shnatsel|busy> So let icon designers do the icon set
[17:38] <scott-upstairs> +1
[17:38] <shnatsel|busy> and we should make the distro, not icon sets
[17:38] <holstein> sure
[17:38] <holstein> i can identify with that
[17:39] <shnatsel|busy> package and integrate apps, etc
[17:39] <scott-upstairs> need some ".."
[17:39] <shnatsel|busy> do like Ubuntu did - just use elementaty icons with minimal mods
[17:39] <scott-upstairs> 's
[17:39] <falktx> faenza ftw!
[17:39] <astraljava> Maybe we shall add theming and branding for discussion in later meetings, then, as this seems to have some controversy in opinions.
[17:39] <shnatsel|busy> falktx: fancy but not intuitive and the whole experience breaks when you meet an icon that's not from faenza
[17:40] <shnatsel|busy> ..
[17:40] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava++
[17:40] <scott-upstairs> i hope we can speed things up because i will need to be going rather soon
[17:40] <scott-upstairs> we're already +40 minutes
[17:40] <astraljava> #subtopic lightdm
[17:40] <falktx> eek, 40 mins
[17:40] <astraljava> Like mentioned already, no it is not using the new background yet.
[17:40] <scott-upstairs> anyone testing the lightdm background fix falktx did?
[17:41] <scott-upstairs> oh, is that what you need to push astraljava as well?
[17:41] <astraljava> #action astraljava to drop in the background for lightdm greeter
[17:41] <meetingology> ACTION: astraljava to drop in the background for lightdm greeter
[17:41] <astraljava> ..
[17:41] <scott-upstairs> let me know when as with the menu astraljava , i'll test
[17:41] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:41] <astraljava> #subtopic new audience
[17:41] <astraljava> This is a huge one, and as we're pressed on time, shall we move onwards?
[17:42] <holstein> well, we could just say what it is
[17:42] <holstein> i think we have all agreed right?
[17:42] <holstein> new users?
[17:42] <falktx> new users!
[17:42] <holstein> maybe not...
[17:42] <scott-upstairs> let's say that the idea is to support musicians who are new to linux
[17:42] <falktx> I agree it's new users
[17:42] <scott-upstairs> but hold comments until a later meeting
[17:42] <holstein> yup, new users to linux/audio
[17:42] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:42] <holstein> we need to nail this down though
[17:42] <holstein> and i think that does
[17:43] <holstein> seems like so many decisions hinge on this target audience
[17:43] <holstein> keepint to the musician new to linux is fine
[17:43] <astraljava> Right, so let's discuss that on October's meeting, so that we get it right for the next cycle.
[17:43] <holstein> that gives us a goal
[17:43] <shnatsel|busy> Artists too!
[17:43] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, aye!  good point
[17:43] <shnatsel|busy> And photographers
[17:43] <holstein> i can go there too
[17:44] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:44] <astraljava> #action move new audience to October's meeting
[17:44] <meetingology> ACTION: move new audience to October's meeting
[17:44] <astraljava> #subtopic Beta2 is coming
[17:44] <holstein> subscribing to the iso testing is how to help with that right?
[17:44] <astraljava> The testing will happen on around 20th to 22nd of September.
[17:45] <astraljava> holstein: That is correct.
[17:45] <scott-upstairs> sept 22
[17:45] <holstein> cool..
[17:45] <scott-upstairs> oh, sorry, you already got it :)
[17:45] <astraljava> Everyone is encouraged to do that, so please, if you can spare time for it, that'd would rock! \m/
[17:45] <holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[17:45] <falktx> wow, ~2 weeks from beta to final release?
[17:45] <scott-upstairs> hopefully we will not have so many respins this time as well
[17:45] <scott-upstairs> falktx, that's the way the schedule fell this cycle :(
[17:45] <falktx> :(
[17:46] <astraljava> For those un-aware of the release schedule, check:
[17:46] <scott-upstairs> i think we can avoid FFe's if we file bugs against things like lightdm or the menu to fix things also
[17:46] <astraljava> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
[17:46] <scott-upstairs> which technically wouldn't need a FFe or other anyway
[17:46] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:46] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: FFes are not too big of a problem for us, when most of the changes we do only affect us.
[17:47] <astraljava> ..
[17:47] <astraljava> Anything else for New Business?
[17:47] <holstein> there was something
[17:47] <astraljava> Oh sorry.
[17:47] <holstein> xsane to whatever is used now
[17:47] <astraljava> #subtopic new meeting schedule
[17:47] <holstein> simplescan?
[17:47] <holstein> are we on simplescan?
[17:47] <shnatsel|busy> yes
[17:47] <holstein> this is non-important i think
[17:47] <shnatsel|busy> simplescan
[17:48] <holstein> but it came up on the mailing list
[17:48] <shnatsel|busy> Ubuntu changed 3 releases ago
[17:48] <shnatsel|busy> doo eet!
[17:48] <holstein> i think when we have time, switching to simplescan too would be a good idea
[17:48] <astraljava> We can do the change. It's not a big problem, I think.
[17:48] <scott-upstairs> ewww, yeah we should probably do likewise
[17:48] <holstein> astraljava: if its easy
[17:48] <shnatsel|busy> it's easy
[17:48] <astraljava> #action astraljava to look into replacing xsane with simplescan
[17:48] <meetingology> ACTION: astraljava to look into replacing xsane with simplescan
[17:48] <shnatsel|busy> remove line from seed, add line to seed
[17:48] <scott-upstairs> just changing the seed and getting luke to update the metas
[17:48] <holstein> i cant find that email... there were a few more suggestions
[17:49] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: yep, from me
[17:49] <astraljava> Yep, we'll just have to check the dependencies.
[17:49] <astraljava> ..
[17:49] <holstein> that was the easiest, and most relavant though
[17:49] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: COOL
[17:49] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: "last call for oneiric seeds" thread
[17:49] <holstein> what were the others?
[17:49] <holstein> 2 others?
[17:49] <scott-upstairs> darktable
[17:49] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: Darktable, photo seed, something else
[17:49] <shnatsel|busy> MyPaint
[17:50] <holstein> maybe thats whats up... i have no experience with those
[17:50] <scott-upstairs> holstein, shnatsel|busy, can you figure out what you want and talk to astraljava after the meeting about including them?
[17:50] <holstein> sure
[17:50] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:50] <astraljava> Thanks!
[17:50] <holstein> no problem :)
[17:50] <shnatsel|busy> I also propose to replace nautilus-image-converter with Phatch: photobatch.stani.be
[17:50] <shnatsel|busy> http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/phatch
[17:50] <shnatsel|busy> That Nautilus extension is useless because Ubuntu Studio has switched to Thunar anyway, and Phatch is a praised and useful app.
[17:50] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: np
[17:50] <astraljava> Now, I mentioned that we should start having meetings more often for the next cycle.
[17:50] <holstein> astraljava: sure
[17:50] <astraljava> Maybe every week is a little too much.
[17:51] <holstein> twice a month?
[17:51] <astraljava> But bi-weekly?
[17:51] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: I suggest weekly
[17:51] <holstein> maybe the 1st and 3rd sundays?
[17:51] <scott-upstairs> +1 more meetings
[17:51] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: If we can commit to that, then I'm all for it.
[17:51] <holstein> if we need more, we can go weekly
[17:51] <falktx> twice a month sounds cool to me
[17:51] <astraljava> Shall we vote on that?
[17:51] <scott-upstairs> can we start with two meetings a month (bi-monthly) and see how it goes?
[17:51] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: cool?
[17:51] <falktx> scott-upstairs: I'm with you
[17:51] <craigs63> same time of day as this?
[17:51] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs++
[17:51] <holstein> craigs63: i can check the schedule here, but thats a good point
[17:51] <astraljava> craigs63: That can be adjusted.
[17:52] <holstein> maybe a different time for the 2nd meeting
[17:52] <holstein> for those who cant make this meeting
[17:52] <astraljava> We can always agree on the next one in a current meeting.
[17:52] <astraljava> Yeah, holstein's got the point.
[17:53] <astraljava> So, we agree on bi-weekly meetings, the first one to be scheduled in October's meeting.
[17:53] <holstein> i like that
[17:53] <astraljava> #action bi-weekly meetings, the first one to be scheduled in October's meeting.
[17:53] <meetingology> ACTION: bi-weekly meetings, the first one to be scheduled in October's meeting.
[17:53] <scott-upstairs> maybe email the mailing list to give available times for everyoen?
[17:53] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:53] <holstein> i can check availablility here, and try and field some times
[17:54] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Absolutely, chair will have to be more active than the (presently lacking) one has been, sorry. :-/
[17:54] <craigs63> Well, bi-weekly means not necessarily falling on the 1st Sunday.
[17:54] <astraljava> Yep, that's the point.
[17:54] <holstein> yeah, we can rotate the chair
[17:54] <holstein> i dont mind doing stuff like that too, since i cant do much other stuff
[17:54] <astraljava> Like for instance Xubuntu-devel has the other on Sundays, and the other on Mondays.
[17:55] <holstein> astraljava: i think you're doing great :)
[17:55] <astraljava> I think we agreed on rotating the chair just for motivational purposes, but that can be discussed later.
[17:55] <astraljava> ..
[17:55] <astraljava> #topic Goals for Oneiric + 1
[17:55] <astraljava> #subtopic live dvd
[17:55] <holstein> i think we table that til later
[17:55] <holstein> til after oneiric
[17:56] <scott-upstairs> table live dvd?
[17:56] <holstein> live DVD is not for now right?
[17:56] <holstein> would that simplifiy our situation at all?
[17:56] <scott-upstairs> can we talk if this is the direction we want to go for oneiric+1?
[17:56] <astraljava> So far it seems that we have agreed to switch to having a live dvd instead of the alternate install
[17:56] <holstein> or make it worse?
[17:56] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: we gotta test it during Oneiric at least, and start it now - or we'll never do it
[17:56] <astraljava> Well, the topic says "Oneiric + 1"
[17:56] <holstein> i think if making a live DVD is easier for us for the oneiric release, lets do it
[17:56] <holstein> otherwise, i dont want to 'rock the boat'
[17:57] <scott-upstairs> holstein, not for oneiric, never will happen
[17:57] <holstein> scott-upstairs: yeah?
[17:57] <holstein> hmmm
[17:57] <astraljava> We don't have time for official live dvd, for sure.
[17:57] <holstein> i mean... i think its the way to go
[17:57] <scott-upstairs> but can we agree as a group that we want to do a live dvd for oneiric+1?
[17:57] <astraljava> But if someone wants to do that as a hobby, by all means.
[17:57] <holstein> scott-upstairs: yeah
[17:57] <holstein> i want that for 12.04
[17:57] <scott-upstairs> +1 from me
[17:57] <astraljava> 0
[17:58] <holstein> not now, unless it drastically simplifies the process
[17:58] <holstein> astraljava: we can talk about it for sure
[17:58] <astraljava> holstein: The talk is on the release _after_ Oneiric.
[17:58] <holstein> i can see either wat
[17:58] <holstein> way*
[17:58] <holstein> but, i think if the new user is the target, the alternate installer is a drag
[17:58] <astraljava> Please keep that in mind.
[17:58] <astraljava> Okay, so far we're +2. Any other votes?
[17:59] <holstein> +1
[17:59] <astraljava> That was already in. :)
[17:59] <holstein> oh... hehe :)
[17:59] <astraljava> falktx: craigs63: shnatsel|busy: others?
[17:59] <shnatsel|busy> Going LiveDVD for Oneiric //means starting now
[17:59] <shnatsel|busy> +1
[17:59] <astraljava> Okay, that one pushed it over the brink, we're going with that then.
[17:59] <holstein> \o/
[18:00] <astraljava> #action switch to using live dvd for Oneiric + 1
[18:00] <meetingology> ACTION: switch to using live dvd for Oneiric + 1
[18:00] <falktx> I can help, surely
[18:00] <falktx> but I need to ask permission for a custom build
[18:00] <scott-upstairs> ..
[18:00] <astraljava> Of course, we will have to keep track on how that progresses from early on, and have alternate as an easy fallback in case things turn awkward.
[18:00] <falktx> UbuntuStudio 11.10 +KXStudio repos (updated apps and some new)
[18:00] <astraljava> ..
[18:00] <falktx> it's like a UbuntuStudio Remix
[18:01] <holstein> hehe
[18:01] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, i would like to work very closely with you on the live dvd
[18:01] <holstein> we could always have, and encourage community spins
[18:01] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: awesome!
[18:01] <astraljava> holstein: Sure, but we're discussing official spins here.
[18:01] <holstein> and get falktx in the mix too
[18:02] <holstein> astraljava: sure, but we cant have kxstudio pacagkes in an official spin
[18:02] <astraljava> Images that are spinned by Canonical services.
[18:02] <holstein> we cant add non repo pacakges right?
[18:02] <falktx> holstein: If I make one, I would have to host it. So hosted on kxstudio sourceforge, a US-remix makes sense I guess
[18:02] <astraljava> holstein: I know, that's why we're not including KXStudio in the discussion directly. We can, of course, utilize falktx's excellent knowledge and experience on the matter.
[18:02] <holstein> cool
[18:02] <falktx> astraljava: ^
[18:03] <astraljava> falktx: Noted.
[18:03] <holstein> well, we are at an hour... thats pretty much it?
[18:03] <astraljava> Can I get any ..'s ?
[18:03] <falktx> astraljava: also note that, using PPAs, we are free to do/add anything
[18:03] <astraljava> holstein: Did we ever limit ourselves to an hour?
[18:03] <falktx> astraljava: including VST plugins
[18:03] <holstein> astraljava: nay
[18:03] <holstein> just sayin
[18:03] <astraljava> Sure.
[18:03] <scott-upstairs> ..
[18:03] <holstein> i think scott-upstairs needs to split
[18:03] <astraljava> falktx: Yup, but we cannot, as Ubuntu Studio.
[18:03] <scott-upstairs> i'm good for a bit more
[18:04] <holstein> cool
[18:04] <holstein> me too
[18:04] <astraljava> Right, moving on.
[18:04] <astraljava> #subtopic lowlatency kernel
[18:04] <astraljava> Anyone checked this recently?
[18:04] <scott-upstairs> i'll spearhead this
[18:04] <holstein> i guess we still need it right?
[18:04] <falktx> astraljava: I know, but a community image can, that's the cool thing about it
[18:04] <falktx> I guess...
[18:04] <scott-upstairs> yes, we need it and we will have it for oneiric
[18:04] <holstein> scott-upstairs: w00t
[18:04] <scott-upstairs> i was relying on persia, i'll be more persistent with him
[18:04] <falktx> abogani usually did this
[18:05] <falktx> what happened to him?
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> falktx he made the package, yes
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> but i am doing it now for him
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> and if i can't get persia to commit to anyting
[18:05] <holstein> yeah, he doesnt want to maintain it anymore
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> i'm going to start pushing extremely hard in #ubuntu-motu to review the package in REVU
[18:05] <holstein> scott-upstairs: let me know
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> i plan to move heaven and earth as much as i can to make this happen
[18:05] <holstein> ill mention it to the graners :)
[18:06] <astraljava> #action scott-upstairs to make lowlatency move forward
[18:06] <meetingology> ACTION: scott-upstairs to make lowlatency move forward
[18:06] <astraljava> ..
[18:06] <scott-upstairs> we don't need UKT input for this, just MOTU
[18:06] <scott-upstairs> ..
[18:06] <scott-upstairs> can we skip to launchpad and lbueprints ?
[18:06] <shnatsel|busy> ..
[18:06] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Sure.
[18:06] <scott-upstairs> i feel it's very important
[18:06] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Did you include it in the agenda?I'm not seeing it.
[18:07] <shnatsel|busy> I did
[18:07] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: refresh :)
[18:07] <scott-upstairs> it's down close to bottom
[18:07] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Ahh, thanks.
[18:07] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, should probably table this topic anyways
[18:07] <shnatsel|busy> I feel that US needs more organized workflow inside the project
[18:07] <astraljava> #action skipping a few items, will postpone to October's meeting.
[18:07] <meetingology> ACTION: skipping a few items, will postpone to October's meeting.
[18:07] <astraljava> #topic Improving workflow
[18:08] <astraljava> #subtopic Use a public specification tracker (LP blueprints?)
[18:08] <shnatsel|busy> for example, there's this LiveDVD initiative, but nobody except those who visit the meetings know about it
[18:08] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: scott-upstairs: Go ahead.
[18:08] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: actually, its been emailed around a few time
[18:08] <shnatsel|busy> there's no place which lists plans for next release
[18:08] <shnatsel|busy> etc
[18:08] <scott-upstairs> or keeps things organized and easy to update
[18:08] <holstein> i think there are, but there are many places
[18:08] <holstein> the wikis get fragmented
[18:08] <holstein> and duplicated
[18:08] <shnatsel|busy> there needs one, open, easy to maintain place
[18:09] <scott-upstairs> but this would be a good way to keep it all together and let people know exactly where to go and update
[18:09] <holstein> its not clear, thats for sure.. i can agree
[18:09] <shnatsel|busy> I have a writeup on that considering different options
[18:09] <shnatsel|busy> http://elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-what%E2%80%99s-our-sleeves
[18:09] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: i like that
[18:09] <shnatsel|busy> We ended up using LP blueprints
[18:09] <scott-upstairs> i've been exploring some blueprints as well and coming to grips with them and specifications
[18:09] <shnatsel|busy> and that really worked
[18:09] <shnatsel|busy> the thing I love about blueprints is that not only they provide a convenient way to track plans and proposals (we have LiveDVD proposal but it's not written down anywhere, the todo list exists only in my mind, etc), but they also make those plans visible to the public.
[18:09] <shnatsel|busy> http://elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-what%E2%80%99s-our-sleeves really worked - people not involved in the project started picking up blueprints and working on them
[18:10] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: what does that mean to us though?
[18:10] <holstein> what would i do to use that?
[18:10]  * holstein looking at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/
[18:10] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: here we come to the next, closely related topic
[18:11] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: workflow guidelines
[18:11] <holstein> :)
[18:11] <astraljava> #subtopic Write/update workflow guidelines
[18:12] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: if you take time to read the blog post behind the link above, you'll see that first it explains the concept of a blueprint, why they are needed and how to use them
[18:12] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: then it explains the desired workflow
[18:12] <holstein> sure, i'll give it a look
[18:13] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: that ensures tjat proposals are seen and plan listings are available for anybody to read
[18:13] <scott-upstairs> +1
[18:14] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: moreover, community contributors can pick up certain tasks
[18:14] <holstein> sure, i like the idea
[18:14] <holstein> +1
[18:14] <holstein> im sure it works well
[18:14] <holstein> we are just so wiki-centric
[18:14] <astraljava> A needless +1
[18:14] <astraljava> This is just a given. :)
[18:15] <shnatsel|busy> I actually thought it will happen, but I was surprised nevertheless when a stranger came and did lots of work that I planned for myself but wrote down to a blueprint anyway
[18:15] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Are you willing to drive this issue, so that every member of the team gets familiar with it, and it starts to see actual usage?
[18:15] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: maybe you can talk me through setting one up sometime
[18:16] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: I hope that my journal post (link above) is sufficient
[18:16] <shnatsel|busy> I can explain any details you need
[18:16] <scott-upstairs> i can help those who want to create one as well
[18:16] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: we also need a way to communicate with the audience
[18:16] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: to make all that openness work
[18:17] <falktx> website comments!
[18:17] <shnatsel|busy> falktx: blog-centric website!
[18:17] <craigs63> +1
[18:17] <shnatsel|busy> falktx: posts in newsblogs about us!
[18:17] <holstein> yeah, but it might be a little late
[18:17] <holstein> i mean, we can do that
[18:17] <holstein> but, we need to start over on the site
[18:17] <shnatsel|busy> OMG!Ubuntu! is a good way to give visibility to something.
[18:17] <holstein> and its been *so* long that the currrent one has be borked
[18:17] <falktx> holstein: the new proposal allows comments
[18:18] <astraljava> I will add that as an item for a later meeting, we will not have time for it today.
[18:18] <holstein> i hate to take on a new system, and start over
[18:18] <scott-upstairs> we can make a blog site that is not at our current website
[18:18] <scott-upstairs> like OMGUbuntu
[18:18] <holstein> at this point, i want something new/funtional even if its wrong
[18:18] <falktx> scott-upstairs: what happened to jorge (creator of the site proposal) ?
[18:18] <holstein> falktx: busy :/
[18:18] <holstein> new job?
[18:18] <scott-upstairs> falktx, jorge moved to japan and is too busy with a new job
[18:18] <holstein> something like that
[18:18] <astraljava> ..
[18:19] <holstein> he checks in occaionally though
[18:19] <holstein> and i like that site
[18:19] <falktx> is it possible to have the his website sources?
[18:19] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: somebody gotta take up where he left
[18:19] <holstein> i remember us talking about blogs back then though
[18:19] <falktx> I'm willing to keep working on the site, but I need sources...
[18:19] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, are you suggesting we make dedicated blog site or roll it into whatever website we end up with?
[18:19] <holstein> can we remember why we didnt do a blog?
[18:20] <scott-upstairs> i like the former because it can be split between people
[18:20] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: make the main US website blog-centric for now and use newsblogs to promote the project as well
[18:20] <astraljava> The topic, however isn't on the website, now. Can we discuss that later on?
[18:20] <scott-upstairs> absolutely ...
[18:20] <scott-upstairs> ..
[18:21] <astraljava> I guess we already covered the next subtopic, then.
[18:21] <shnatsel|busy> To sum up, we need workflow guidelines to be written, and lots of deduplication, switching to more user-friendly services, etc
[18:21] <astraljava> #topic Any other business?
[18:21] <astraljava> Sorry, shnatsel|busy, please go on.
[18:21] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: im all for that, and will help anyway i can
[18:22] <holstein> duplication is a drag
[18:22] <astraljava> Agreed, we're lagging behind in that one.
[18:22] <holstein> and when i think about cleaning up our wiki's, i get sad
[18:22] <astraljava> And a good thing to keep in mind with this is that it's not contained in a devel cycle timeframe.
[18:22] <holstein> i would much rather implement something we would like and move forward with that
[18:22] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: then drop it.
[18:22] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: drop what?
[18:22] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: blueprints + links to whatever services where the full specs are stored
[18:23] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: that's the core
[18:23] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: bug tracker rocks
[18:23] <scott-upstairs> drop the wiki he's saying
[18:23] <holstein> yeah.. but can we?
[18:23] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: you also need a blog, that's a website affair
[18:23] <holstein> scott-upstairs: would we just clean out the wikis?
[18:23] <holstein> will someone delete them for us? the pages?
[18:23] <holstein> anyways... for later...
[18:23] <scott-upstairs> i'm sure we can do something
[18:24] <scott-upstairs> we're pushing 90 minutes, i gotta go
[18:24] <holstein> lets just say, this is a good idea for now, and see where it goes
[18:24] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: if you don't like them, don't link to them from main US wiki page
[18:24] <shnatsel|busy> ok
[18:24] <shnatsel|busy> ..
[18:24] <astraljava> Right, so to cut it short, any other business that hasn't been discussed yet?
[18:24] <falktx> delete the wiki? and have the webpage with a wiki contained?
[18:24] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, i would like to work with you again on the work flow, blueprints, blog direction and develop a good plan to move forward
[18:24] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: awsum
[18:25] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: I already did much of that for elementary, so I think we can reuse lots of stuff
[18:25] <astraljava> #action scott-upstairs to drive the usage of blueprints etc. with shnatsel|busy, astraljava (and others who so inspire)
[18:25] <meetingology> ACTION: scott-upstairs to drive the usage of blueprints etc. with shnatsel|busy, astraljava (and others who so inspire)
[18:25] <astraljava> If not, then I'm going to close this meeting.
[18:26] <astraljava> Next meeting is...
[18:26] <astraljava> October 2nd.
[18:26] <astraljava> 17000 UTC.
[18:26] <astraljava> oops
[18:26] <astraljava> 1700 UTC, of course.
[18:26] <astraljava> On #ubuntu-meeting.
[18:27] <holstein> great meeting all... thanks
[18:27] <astraljava> #topic Next Meeting Chair
[18:27] <astraljava> Any volunteers?
[18:27] <holstein> astraljava: im always up for it assuming im home
[18:27] <astraljava> holstein: Thanks.
[18:28] <astraljava> #action holstein to chair the next meeting, unless something surprising happens
[18:28] <meetingology> ACTION: holstein to chair the next meeting, unless something surprising happens
[18:28] <astraljava> #endmeeting
[18:28] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Sep  4 18:28:18 2011 UTC.
[18:28] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-04-17.01.moin.txt
[18:28] <holstein> we can leave it a little loose for now, and come up with a rotation soon
[18:28] <holstein> something we can reference easily
[18:28] <astraljava> Thanks everyone for attending, and keeping Ubuntu Studio afloat! :)
[18:29] <astraljava> We have a little to learn on how we keep it coherent and more intact, but we're getting there. :)
[18:31] <AlanBell> thanks astraljava, awesome use of the bot :)
[18:31] <astraljava> AlanBell: Thanks so much for providing it! :)
[18:31] <astraljava> It certainly makes life so much easier.
[18:32] <astraljava> Just will have to learn to use it better, and then try to get the team use it more as well.
[18:32] <astraljava> What a wonderful tool.
[18:40] <AlanBell> I want to make the minutes look better, any suggestions would be great
[18:41] <astraljava> I'll give it some thought when I plant it on the wiki.