[01:52] <InZaneGamer84> why when I run chmod +x script.sh and then attempt to execute that script I get a permission denied error?
[02:50] <Kubunite84> i used clonezilla to copy from a 40gb hdd to a 80gb ssd and clonezilla reported everything went right but grub boots to the old installation?
[02:54] <InZaneGamer84> got disconnected
 @siduck, hey @siduck 👋
 hi
[08:31] <ktecho> Hey. I'm sure it has been asked already. Is 5.20 or 5.21 comming to kubuntu 20.10?  I'm trying wayland because I have 2 monitors with different resolutions, which works fine in wayland, but a lot of things don't work. I've heard that this stuff improves with more current versions of Plasma
[08:32] <ktecho> I mean, comming to backports
[09:07] <ktecho> Having a way to use different scaling for each monitor would suit me too, because Plasma with X11 works flawlessly
[11:54] <viewer|66> hello, my kubuntu 20.04 keeps failing. I tried reinstalling the installation multiple times and i also tried to download the iso multiple times and i tried multiple usb sticks, but no succes. I have no problem with ubuntu 20.04 installer
[11:57] <CoJaBo> viewer|66: Failing how?
[11:57] <CoJaBo> The first release could not be installed while connected to the Internet, but I assume they fixed that one
[11:57] <viewer|66> the installation just crashed at 90 to 100%
[12:00] <viewer|66> i maybe have to try without internet i guess
[12:00] <CoJaBo> I hate that they got rid of the text installer
[12:00] <viewer|66> yeah true
[12:00] <CoJaBo> Could always install ubuntu then install kde on it after
[12:01] <viewer|66> i really liked the minimal cd
[12:01] <CoJaBo> kubuntu-desktop or something is the package name; double-check that tho, I probably wrong lol
[12:01] <viewer|66> yeah i installed it on linux mint before
[12:02] <viewer|66> but i couldn't get rid of cinnamon desktop from linux mint
[13:01] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
 Gey
[13:07] <viewer|54> Hello, where do I find information about a post-installation error: The boot loader didn't start, instead grub started in rescue mode. Dual-boot with trisquel. EFI partition was flagged 'boot'.
[13:07] <viewer|54> i.e. Trisquel GNU/Linux.
[13:07] <diogenes_> EFI partition must be esp boot
[13:08] <viewer|54> if I remember right, it was 'esp boot'
[13:09] <viewer|54> I removed the flags in order to start Triquel again from the other partition
[13:09] <diogenes_> there you go, you removed the flags and you got in unbootable.
[13:10] <viewer|54> no, that was before I removed the flags. btw, what does esp stand for?
[13:10] <BluesKaj> viewer|54, this ubuntu support, try #trisquel chat
[13:11] <diogenes_> Extensible Firmware Interface
[13:11] <viewer|54> My computer was in boot mode 'both' i.e. BIOS legacy and UEFI, with UEFI as a priority. the error persisted after I changed to UEFI-mode
[13:12] <viewer|54> BluesKaj, this is about getting kubuntu running.
[13:12] <viewer|54> diogenes_, esp=Extensible Firmware Interface??
[13:13] <viewer|54> Only after nothing was working anymore, I changed the flags back to my Trisquel partition.
 @viewer|54, ESP stands for EFI System Partition
[13:13] <viewer|54> Thanks!
[13:13] <viewer|54> I looked a
 BluesKaj, is it advisable to install kde on Ubuntu ? or it will cause issues ?
[13:14] <viewer|54> I researched the (German) ubuntu forums, but the articles about settiing up EFI are cryptic to me ... I'm a beginner ...
[13:16] <BluesKaj> ri5h46h, it's possible, one just chooses the desktop at login, there should be very few issues if any.
 Ok
[13:33] <viewer|54> thanks for your help, I need to go. bye!
 @BluesKaj, oh okay. I asked because many say that mixing gtk and qt can result in issues.
[13:53] <BluesKaj> not really, each desktop environment handles them the same way and shouldn't care about which one gets used
[13:54] <BluesKaj> one just ends up with a larger OS footprint than using one DE exclusively
 @BluesKaj, oh. got it. :)
[14:02] <BluesKaj> i use some gtk apps like gparted rather than the default kde/plasma partitioner because it has more options and is more stable
 @BluesKaj, yes, the KDE Partition has crashed on my system when Partitioning a 2 TB disk
[14:03] <BluesKaj> yup, it's somewhat buggy
 Ok
 @Swift110, say something else also 😂.
[14:10] <user|50795> I just installed kubuntu 20.04, but my internet and audio don't work. I have currently a ethernet cable in the computer and the system does not detect it.
 @ri5h46h, Something else also
[14:11] <user|50795> I just installed the system and updated all applications and now my audio or ethernet don't work
[14:12] <user|50795> Kubuntu 20.04 to be exact
 Hi guys
 What do u recommend, manual markup or automatically markup for Kubuntu?
 Isn't it will lagging
 ?
[14:25] <BluesKaj> @rustyshka, do you mean update/upgrade ?
 No, I wanna to install
 And a markup
 Automatically or manually
 What's better
 I will format my disk
[14:26] <BluesKaj> markup packages?
 I don't know, is it markup or installation
 Automatically installation better?
[14:29] <BluesKaj> what do you meaqn by markup?
[14:29] <BluesKaj> mean
 Min...
 Disk markup
 When you installing Kubuntu and there markups, automatically and manually
[14:31] <BluesKaj> auto installation is usually best if you have a GPT partition ready and ext4 filesystem format
 By the way, what's difference, lts and default
 @BluesKaj, Yeap, I have gpt
 I'll format it and here install Kubuntu
[14:32] <BluesKaj> then auto install to the target partition should work
 Ok
[19:11] <trakinas> Hi, all! I have removed some pre-compiled binary files from my computer. However, Krunner still shows them up in the search box. Is there any place where I can clean up its cache? Could not find anything that would clarify that. Cleaning history from its menu does not help.
[23:28] <dillon> hello
[23:28] <dillon> I am new to linux and I'm having some problems already :/
[23:47] <dillon> hello is anyone here?
 dillon: ask your question and be patient
 don't ask top ask
 to


[07:23] <one> Does arikb remember the first chat he identified to me?
[07:38] <arikb> Sorry, one. I've read what you wrote in this chat and you are not a person I'm interested in having a discussion with. Please do not be offended but you are now being added to my ignore list and I will not be able to see any more messages from you.,
[08:33] <one> it is in your best interest
[08:34] <one> I am not interested in discussion at all
[08:35] <one> no not at all
[08:36] <one> it does nothing for me or for you
[08:39] <one> live by bel shem tav die by bel shem tav
[08:39] <one> discussion with me is looking death in the face
[08:41] <one> what is that program supposed to be a social worker?


[00:00] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: "If there are files that need to be installed into your package but your standard make install won't do it, put the filenames and destinations into this install file." Where am I lost?
[00:00] <tsimonq2> Those 2 cases are not mutually exclusive
[00:01] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. So... where does make install play a part?
[00:02] <tsimonq2> Using make install can help you understand what is programmatically going to is is programmatically going to be installed by a cement but if it's a different file that doesn't exist in she makes realm then it can install it
[00:02] <tsimonq2> Excuse my talk to text but that is my summary of that
[00:02] <arraybolt3[m]> cement = CMake?
[00:03] <tsimonq2> So install files can be used for both files that have been generated by a sea have been generated by a seamache and files that have not been generated by a sea make
[00:04] <arraybolt3[m]> So we specify everything in the .install file whether "make install" would do it or not?
[00:04] <arraybolt3[m]> But it's not technically necessary in some situations?
[00:05] <arraybolt3[m]> (Like, a very simple package where "make install" handles everything in a reasonable way could just be left without an install file, but one can be provided to make things clear and sensible? And to handle anything "make install" misses?)
[00:07] <arraybolt3[m]> (I get the "what" behind the install file, I'm just digging for the "why" so that I have a clear understanding of everything.)
[00:23] <arraybolt3[m]> I guess what would help it click the most for me is, in what situation would a package not include one or more install files?
 "(Like, a very simple package..." <- That is precisely right.
 "I guess what would help it click..." <- Like you said, a very small package
[00:29] <arraybolt3[m]> So they're not mandatory, but you should include one even if you don't have to.
[00:29] <tsimonq2> Or rather, a very simple package
[00:30] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, OK, I think I get it. So my last message was wrong.
[00:30] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I forget what policy says but it helps you keep track of upstream changes so I'd always opt for one
[00:30] <arraybolt3[m]> I can't even find anything about the install files in the policy so 🤷♂
[00:30] <tsimonq2> Nice. Love it.
[00:30] <tsimonq2> Hey here's a curveball for you, back to copyright...
[00:31] <tsimonq2> Is the upstream source DFSG-compatible?
[00:31] <arraybolt3[m]> For installer-prompt? Yes. For everything?
[00:31] <tsimonq2> s/compatible/compliant/
[00:31]  * arraybolt3[m] digs in docs
[00:32] <tsimonq2> Debian Free Software Guidelines. I'm not saying you need to dig into it at the same level as I did as a DD, for you it's probably one of those things where you read it once and get an understanding of it, and you kind of have a gut feeling to recheck it if something feels off
[00:33] <tsimonq2> (As a DD I had to read long license text for several licenses to determine whether they were DFSG-compatible and why or why not, precisely. That's too intense of a grilling for someone who hasn't explicitly volunteered for it. :P)
[00:34] <arraybolt3[m]> I might actually go ahead and try that (later). I always read the terms and conditions for almost everything (though I skipped Stack Exchange, Thomas is a mod on Ask Ubuntu and I was too tired to delve through that mess). I've read the entire GPL v2 and v3, and even decided on v3 rather than v2 for one software package I made once.
[00:34] <tsimonq2> In fact, with the right Googling you may get this answer in less than 5 minutes
[00:35] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Check the Lubuntu Developer wiki page, there's a link somewhere
[00:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I believe you have to be DSFG-compliant for a package to be accepted into Debian's main archive, but not for contrib or non-free. Not sure about Ubuntu yet, though.
[00:38] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Ubuntu follows the same criteria.
[00:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice. So main and universe are DSFG-compliant, restricted and multiverse not?
[00:39] <tsimonq2> So, for the two licenses present in this package, are they both DFSG compliant?
[00:40] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Restricted and multiverse just gets a little fuzzy.
[00:40] <arraybolt3[m]> GPL-3, yes.
[00:40] <arraybolt3[m]> (Looking up CC-BY...)
[00:40] <arraybolt3[m]> (I found this awesome partial list of DSFG-compliant licenses, I'm just gonna cheat and use that.)
[00:41] <arraybolt3[m]> (And it's in Debians official docs!)
[00:41] <tsimonq2> For every up and coming MOTU I mentored, I (used to at least) make them merge msttcorefonts from Debian :P (one of the most complicated mind-numbing convoluted hacky easy-to-break merges you will ever do) and that's in multiverse. That code is "open" but a license is required to be accepted before it can be installed.
[00:41] <arraybolt3[m]> CC-BY 4.0 is also DSFG.
[00:41] <tsimonq2> That answers my question :)
[00:42] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Nice fins
[00:42] <tsimonq2> * Nice find
[00:42] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Oh no. Pretty much anything Microsoft proprietary+Debian is virtually guaranteed to be easier to shatter than Arch Linux, right?
[00:43] <tsimonq2> tsimonq2: This is what they mean when they say "evil and pedantic, just like your sponsors" :P
[00:43] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yeah it is a mindf***
[00:43] <arraybolt3[m]> (So that's why you do '-E-', '-v-', '-I', '-L', '+pedantic' for Lintian!)
[00:43] <tsimonq2> In that order :P
[00:43] <tsimonq2> I can be evil when getting to the final stages of grilling someone for upload right endorsement
[00:44] <tsimonq2> Like "you're off by one line in your diff redo it" evil :P
[00:44] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Not sure if qualifies as evil when the alternative is to let someone wreak havoc.
[00:44] <tsimonq2> You'll know when you're there... cause you'll be able to handle it ;)
[00:44] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Fair enough
[00:44] <arraybolt3[m]> Tricky, sure. Evil? Not.
[00:46] <tsimonq2> Cruel is probably a more accurate description :P
[00:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, you talking about copyright files just made me realize I botched debian/copyright for installer-prompt. Better fix that...
[00:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Quick question, do we usually license the debian directory under some specific license, or is making it the same license at the source code par for the course?
[00:48] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I mean you're the guy packaging it, do you care if we just save the lines in the copyright file and also do GPL v3? :)
[00:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Nope, don't care, just want to not go against any policies or anything. (Shoot, I'm not even retaining copyright, I'm plopping it under "Lubuntu Developers", so really it's your decision, not mine.)
[00:49] <arraybolt3[m]> (Or at least the decision of the collective developers, so probably the Lubuntu Council, but if it's fine to save the lines, I'mma save the lines.)
[00:49] <arraybolt3[m]> (I can dive down rabbit holes sometimes...)
[00:50] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, back to how I botched it. Forgot to specify the CC-BY 4.0 in the copyright file. Fixing...
[00:51] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Lubuntu Developers works
[00:51] <tsimonq2> In fact you can just do the entire source including debian/ under the same copyright declaration
[00:52] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, so quick question, where do we intend to put img/background.png in the final package?
[00:52] <arraybolt3[m]> (Oh wait, this is a source package, nevermind...)
[00:56] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yeah for copyright it's source code paths only
[00:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh great, now I have to plop the whole license text in. (CC-BY-4.0, why can't I just license it as something easy? 😢)
[00:59] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Have fun. ;)
[00:59] <arraybolt3[m]> This is interesting, it's the license I picked, but I only picked it because the artwork contest requires it...
[00:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Well, thankfully, I can just hork it from another package from codesearch.debian.net.
[01:00] <tsimonq2> I mean, check the lubuntu-artwork copyright
[01:00] <tsimonq2> (And if that isn't up to date there's a problem lol)
[01:00] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Very nice
[01:00] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, not a bad idea.
[01:00] <arraybolt3[m]> (In response to the lubuntu-artwork package idea)
[01:01] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Nope, everyone went with CC-BY-SA.
[01:03] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, that was easier than I thought.
[01:04] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Cc Dan Simmons for accuracy
[01:04] <tsimonq2> Dan Simmons: that
[01:04] <tsimonq2> Aha
[01:05] <arraybolt3[m]> Not that I have anything against CC-BY-SA, but I tried to do CC0, so CC-BY seemed closer.
[01:12] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: And once we get this through NEW we can also add those icons :)
[01:13] <arraybolt3[m]> You liked those? I sure had fun making them.
[01:14] <arraybolt3[m]> Quick question, the source code for installer-prompt had the path to the background image hardcoded in. Once it's packaged, will that interfere with the executable's ability to  find the image?
[01:15] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Nope just make sure that png is installed in that path
[01:16] <arraybolt3[m]> Right... but we can't put a folder called "img" in /usr. So I'm guessing the working directory will be in usr/share/installer-prompt/<whatever>, and the picture in usr/share/installer-prompt/img?
[01:17] <tsimonq2> Yep
[01:18] <tsimonq2> See CMakeLists.txt
[01:18] <arraybolt3[m]> (I was looking in there...)
[01:19] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, I see the code changed since last I saw it. That makes it all make sense.
 "Not that I have anything against..." <- CC0 is stuff I horked from unsplash. That is the license they provide.
[01:30] <arraybolt3[m]> kc2bez[m]: Unsplash is awesome.
[01:30] <kc2bez[m]> It really is.
[01:36] <arraybolt3[m]> Si
[01:36] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Sorry if I'm being slow packaging, I'm simultaneously trying to do belated spring cleaning.
[01:36] <arraybolt3[m]> I do want to do the packaging though.
[01:36] <arraybolt3[m]> And I'm pretty far into it.
[01:37] <arraybolt3[m]>  * (enter instead of tab strikes again!)
[02:02] <tsimonq2> You're okay arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org
[02:02] <tsimonq2> Just had dinner with the family probably going to do more $sidejob work
[02:03] <tsimonq2> Ping me when you're stuck :)
[04:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Help
[04:02] <arraybolt3[m]> (Hit Enter too early, was going to make that funny, now it just looks pathetic...)
[04:02] <arraybolt3[m]> (And now I'm realizing I should probably figure this out myself.  Go figure.)
[04:06] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, I'm a bit stuck after all. I cannot figure out what's supposed to go in debian/upstream/signing-key.asc, but I do know that simply grabbing the .asc file that signs the source tarball doesn't work.
[04:09] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I would have to look up the exact terminology for you but you are just simply exporting my public key and an arrow to formats so that's used skin can process it
[04:09] <tsimonq2> Armored
[04:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, like what I do for adding a PPA to sbuild. Got it.
[04:14] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Thank you, that worked.
[05:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): During the packaging, I'm getting "no-manual-page" Lintian output, would you like to write a man page, would you like me to, or would you like me to override it?
[05:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): It wants manual pages for lubuntu-installer and lubuntu-installer-prompt.
[05:43] <arraybolt3[m]> (I can see already to override the lubuntu-installer script man page, it's not ever intended to be used by the end user, it's just for use by lubuntu-installer-prompt itself.)
[05:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Also, getting this: "lubuntu-installer-prompt: using-first-person-in-description line 2: we" Super easy to fix, but since I copied the description straight out of your GitHub repo, I want your go-ahead before fixing it.
[05:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Other than that, this thing is building Lintian-clean, and I'm about to test it out in a live session! 🎉
 "Simon Quigley (Developer..." <- Override, there's no CLI interface
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): It..." <- All good, disregard
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): Also,..." <- What specific part of the description is it complaining about?
[05:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): "Eventually we want to extend this to support multiple flavors."
[05:57] <arraybolt3[m]> * (Developer): "Eventually **we, * we** want
[05:57] <tsimonq2> Eventually the goal is this will be extended to support multiple flavors.
[05:57] <tsimonq2> Or similar
[05:57] <tsimonq2> Not particular
[05:57] <tsimonq2> In fact, that line prob shouldn't exist in a package desc
[05:57] <tsimonq2> I mean think about it :]
[05:58] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, I see your point.
[05:58] <tsimonq2> s/]/)/
[05:58] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, I can just remove that part if you'd like.
[05:58] <tsimonq2> Well... maybe.
[05:58] <tsimonq2> Thoughts?
[05:58] <arraybolt3[m]> (I kinda liked :] )
[05:58] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I'll just quote a snippet out of the Wine package description, that should summarize my thoughts.
[05:59] <tsimonq2> Cool sounds good man
[05:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, it used to say something like "This is buggy and a lot of stuff won't work", or something.
[05:59] <tsimonq2> I'll be home likely in the next 30 mins. Just depends on the intense conversation I'm about to have with my girlfriend on whether or not I'll be around tonight. :P
[05:59] <arraybolt3[m]> My idea was, "If it's kinda incomplete but we're releasing it anyway, why not put the line in there?"
[06:00] <arraybolt3[m]> (If I'm sucking away your time for your family, don't let me do that. I can stop pinging you and just pick up whenever you're back.)
[06:00] <tsimonq2> I mean, technically speaking it's feature-complete for a 0.x release. 1.0 may have all the fancy bells and whistles.
[06:00] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Nah I'm still out and about you're cool
[06:01] <tsimonq2> Thanks for your consideration but I'm waiting until I'm done with this task for $sidejob before I face the music
[06:17] <arraybolt3[m]> While I'm waiting for the Kinetic ISO to zsync, want me to GitHub my packaging so far and submit it for your roasting?
[06:17] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Ping
[06:23] <tsimonq2> Sure
[06:24] <tsimonq2> Just got home and it wasn't an instant argument, I'm surprised :) only a matter of time...
[06:24] <tsimonq2> Anyway
 "While I'm waiting for the..." <- When you test it you'll need to log out and log back in (password box stays empty) for it to show as intended
[06:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, not quite sure what that means at this moment, but I'll find out pretty soon here.
[06:27] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: As in like, install the package, log out of the LXQt session (but don't reboot!) and log back in (for the second time so it doesn't bite you in the ass later: **the password is blank**) :)
[06:27] <tsimonq2> As in, doesn't exist
[06:27] <tsimonq2> Null
[06:27] <tsimonq2> :))
[06:27] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Alright, tell me how bad I did: https://github.com/ArrayBolt3/installer-prompt-packaging
[06:28]  * tsimonq2 cracks his knuckles
[06:28] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Oh I get it, because this is in the live session. Sorry, trying to manage GitHub, prepare for testing, and do tech support all at once.
[06:29] <tsimonq2> You're good man :)
[06:29] <arraybolt3[m]> I probably botched the install dependencies I just remembered. So expect for me to need to fix that.
[06:29] <arraybolt3[m]> (The build deps are good though.)
[06:29] <arraybolt3[m]> (AFAIK.)
[06:29] <arraybolt3[m]> That's part of why I need to test, is to know what install deps are needed.
[06:29] <tsimonq2> Cool. I will be sure to review jubilant-doodle ASAP. ;)
[06:30]  * arraybolt3[m] understands why GitHub does that, but also think sometimes it comes out really funny.
[06:30]  * arraybolt3[m]  * understands why GitHub does that, but also thinks sometimes it comes out really funny.
[06:47] <tsimonq2> Lmaooo
[06:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Aaaand... fail. Missing qt6-qpa-plugins, need to add that as an install dependency. But once I installed that, I got it to work.
[06:47] <tsimonq2> Reviewing by mobile before I put it through the local script gauntlet
[06:47] <arraybolt3[m]> However... it does need some help with UI layout. Screenshot of problem incoming...
[06:48]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (2049KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/OHqnjaXxiAxENRkQkWGWCyYP/image.png >
[06:48] <arraybolt3[m]> (Well, it caught my second monitor, so there's extra junk in there, but you can see the problem with how it looks in a VM window.
[06:48] <arraybolt3[m]> * VM window.)
[06:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Not sure how we're going to make it look right on all screen sizes.
[06:49] <tsimonq2> Hmm. We'll have to work on that.
[06:49] <tsimonq2> What is your rationale for `debian/source/options`?
[06:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Also, if the user clicks "Install Lubuntu", then backs out of the installer, the installer-prompt is still there. Bug or feature?
[06:50] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: It is? Where does it go?
[06:51] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: I'm doing the packaging in a Git repo, I saw that other packages in LXQt had the option, and since it looked like it was making sure the gitignore file didn't get packaged in, I put it in too.
[06:51] <tsimonq2> ✅ debian/upstream and debian/watch with manually reviewing it, thanks
[06:51] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: As in, backing out of the installer lands you back on the installer-prompt screen.
[06:52] <arraybolt3[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Three different LXQt packaging repos all use that option.
[06:52] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: But my question to you is, **why** do they use that option? :)
[06:53] <arraybolt3[m]> I guess I should look up exactly why, I was guessing at what it did... and I know how guessing turned out last time.
[06:53] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Oh, yeah. File an issue on GH please
[06:54] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: It's not about guessing, guessing is okay every once in a while in controlled settings, I just want you to understand why you're making the decisions you're making
[06:54] <arraybolt3[m]> That makes sense. I figured, "looks reasonable, other, good packaging uses it, go with the flow."
[06:54] <tsimonq2> Also, I would definitely prefer you take the time to formulate a researched answer to questions over just giving me your gut reaction unless you know you know the whys.
[06:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Well, you did ask my rationale, so I was answering with what my rationale was. I could have dug around and found out exactly what the option did and then tell you would I should have done, but I didn't think that was exactly what you were asking.
[06:55] <tsimonq2> Thorough and comprehensive answers that show understanding but take longer > the first thing that pops into your head because the pressure makes you want to give me an answer quicker :)
[06:56] <arraybolt3[m]> Makes good sense.
[06:58] <arraybolt3[m]> Hmm, I'm having a hard time even finding info about the tar-ignore option...
[06:58] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Imagine this... you're 3 years down the line and one of the members of the Ubuntu Release Team asks you, "why tf would you do such a thing? What's your rationale?" you should be able to say "okay, looking at this again, I see my rationale was x, y, z, but I can see why you would question it." It's part of what they teach you as a lawyer, to be able to defend against rebuttals before they're made
[06:58] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, found it.
[06:58] <tsimonq2> Happens to all of us. Happened to me this cycle and same with Erich. My tl;dr is just be prepared to defend your decisions, make them confidently
[06:59] <tsimonq2> So if I ask for rationale, there's a reason I'm asking you
[06:59] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: That's good thinking. I actually do logical debate as a recreational activity, so this clicks instantly for me.
[06:59] <tsimonq2> But I also want to know the rationale :)
[07:00] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Perfect. Just keep that in mind. If you're stuck in a rabbit hole, I'm probably one of the more friendlier and patient faces you'll find :)
[07:00] <tsimonq2> But research is key. Especially when you're on your own and $new_fancy_thing is made default and I'm not around :)
[07:01] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, I'm going to have to find out what dpkg-source even is before I can answer correctly what that option does.
[07:01] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Ooh, nice one. Let me know if you have any questions.
[07:03] <arraybolt3[m]> So here's something I'm noticing, and maybe you can confirm that I'm understanding right here. We a lot of times have our packaging separate from the source code. I've noticed Debian has source and packaging together. And dpkg-source packs and unpacks Debian source archives. Does that mean it makes the orig.tar.gz files, or at least can make them?
[07:03] <arraybolt3[m]> If so, I believe the "tar-ignore" option I set is only useful for if we had our packaging and source together... but we don't, so I believe I should remove it.
[07:06] <arraybolt3[m]> So, the "good" answer to your question: "My rationale behind setting that option was simply that multiple other packaging directories I checked had that option set. However, upon further investigation, it looks like it's unnecessary for this particular package, and should be removed."
[07:07]  * arraybolt3[m] thinks that sounds like a newbie trying to sound professional, because that's exactly what it is
[07:08] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: No, so what dpkg-source does it takes the orig tarball, unpacks it as per the rules you set, errors if there's a local diff that's not in a patch, and builds the package. All that happens in the background in a tmp directory
[07:08] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh great. So I'm totally off in left field here.
[07:08] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Success is built on a mountain of mistakes. If you start with something small like that and hone it in, a while from now you'll have it down.
[07:09] <arraybolt3[m]> So, wait, if dpkg-source doesn't make the orig.tar.gz file, then why does the man page say this?
[07:09] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: You just have it exactly backwards. It doesn't take the source and makes the orig, it takes the orig and makes the source
[07:10] <arraybolt3[m]> (Matrix is being mean, hold on...)
[07:10] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I dunno, my understanding could be rusty but I know that orig isn't touched
[07:10] <arraybolt3[m]> If this option is specified, the pattern will be passed to tar(1)'s --exclude option when it is called
[07:10] <arraybolt3[m]>            to generate a .orig.tar or .tar file (--tar-ignore since dpkg 1.15.6).  For example, -ICVS will make
[07:10] <arraybolt3[m]>            tar skip over CVS directories when generating a .tar.gz file. The option may be repeated multiple times
[07:10] <arraybolt3[m]>            to list multiple patterns to exclude.
[07:10] <tsimonq2> OH
[07:10] <tsimonq2> Okay
[07:10] <tsimonq2> So
[07:10] <arraybolt3[m]> That's what tar-ignore does.
[07:11] <tsimonq2> Imagine this... there's a tarball with mostly free code. There's one module that's nonfree. You want to not include a copy of that source, anywhere in the archive. So you strip it and retar the orig
[07:11] <tsimonq2> That usually adds a +dfsg suffix
[07:11] <tsimonq2> ...get it, 'cause it's to be compliant with the DFSG?
[07:12] <tsimonq2> Anyway, it can make a derivative orig, but can't entirely generate a new pristine original
[07:12] <arraybolt3[m]> So "tar-ignore=.gitignore" says to leave the .gitignore file out if making a derivative orig?
[07:13] <tsimonq2> No, that's a cleaner way of just stripping it before it gets to the source
[07:14] <tsimonq2> See, we're talking about two different things, let me explain...
[07:14] <tsimonq2> That gitignore file is free software. We can legally ship it in the Debian and Ubuntu archives
[07:14] <tsimonq2> We don't have to build a new tar
[07:14] <tsimonq2> The existing tar is fine to ship
[07:15] <tsimonq2> A full repack is for non-free files that we literally need to purge from the archive for legal reasons
[07:15] <arraybolt3[m]> Right.
[07:15] <arraybolt3[m]> But we don't want the .gitignore to be in there during the build process, so while we ship it since it's legally fine to, we also strip it since it's otherwise useless to us?
[07:16] <tsimonq2> I think this particular issue is sorted by your formalized evaluation summary ;)
[07:16] <tsimonq2> It may be unnecessary. Doesn't hurt
[07:17] <tsimonq2> Upstream may include debian/ in the gitignore file, think about that too :)
[07:17] <arraybolt3[m]> That could cause problems if it got through to the build process, right?
[07:18] <tsimonq2> Nah, it's trivial
[07:18] <arraybolt3[m]> So, just the what. tar-ignore keeps files from within the tar from getting into the build process during the sbuild. Right or wrong?
[07:18] <arraybolt3[m]> (I just want to get a good handle on this so I know when to use the option in the future.)
[07:18] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yes correct
[07:19] <tsimonq2> And it's only used if the tar is entirely free, as we discussed before
[07:19] <arraybolt3[m]> click Got it!
[07:20] <tsimonq2> tsimonq2: (Well, I guess they're not mutually exclusive, you can use that option and still repack a tar but holy convoluted wtf lmao)
[07:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Makes sense. Like tar-ignore out just the .gitignore and then repack to remove the non-free stuff or something.
[07:21] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yeah
[07:21] <arraybolt3[m]> One part of me thinks I should get rid of the option to shave a tiny bit of space off of the source package, another part of me thinks, if everyone else thinks it's a good idea, let's also do it. What do you think?
[07:22] <tsimonq2> I'm about the same
[07:22] <arraybolt3[m]> LOL that didn't help...
[07:23] <tsimonq2> Pick one and roll with it
[07:23] <tsimonq2> I don't mind
[07:23] <arraybolt3[m]> Most practical thing to my mind is remove it. We'll shave some precious bytes of space off that might help someone store that one extra browser cookie or something.
[07:24] <tsimonq2> Next question, I think we've spent enough time here...
[07:25] <tsimonq2> What does this line do and what purpose does it serve with respect to long term package maintenence?
[07:25] <tsimonq2> ```
[07:25] <tsimonq2> dh_missing --fail-missing
[07:25] <tsimonq2> ```
[07:25] <arraybolt3[m]> One moment, may have just nuked Git yet again...
[07:25] <arraybolt3[m]> (Oh my gosh I ended up removing the .install file entirely because I was frustrated with trying to get it to work, that needs fixed.)
[07:26] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Nuked Git the program or your local Git clone? ;)
[07:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Local Git clone.
[07:27] <arraybolt3[m]> I just pushed it, may as well wipe and start over (ran "git add -A && git commit -m "message" in the wrong directory in detached HEAD mode, not sure how to undo that).
[07:27] <tsimonq2> ```
[07:27] <tsimonq2> git checkout PATH
[07:27] <tsimonq2> ```
[07:27] <tsimonq2> That will bring the file back
[07:27] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: git checkout master
[07:27] <tsimonq2> git status
[07:28] <arraybolt3[m]> I did "git checkout 0.2.0" earlier to fix an sbuild gripe when I had my source and packaging all together a bit ago, so doing "git checkout master" might wreak real havoc.
[07:28] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll save it as an interesting Git-fu testbed, and clone so I can keep going.
[07:29] <arraybolt3[m]> > <@tsimonq2:linuxdelta.com> What does this line do and what purpose does it serve with respect to long term package maintenence?... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/d8133b0f0db3720008c762da5eff19ded49bfb5d)
[07:29] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: man git-stash when switching branches around to get clean inline conflicts
[07:31] <arraybolt3[m]> > <@tsimonq2:linuxdelta.com> What does this line do and what purpose does it serve with respect to long term package maintenence?... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/75c39cc67eda8429149acaf5f78ed542f532e048)
[07:32] <arraybolt3[m]> For the lubuntu-installer-prompt project, this should help us not forget to install the icons once we add them.
[07:33] <tsimonq2> Thanks! Covers all the bases :)
[07:33] <arraybolt3[m]> I did that "research then reply" thing you suggested. Looks like it's working!
[07:33] <tsimonq2> :D
[07:34] <tsimonq2> Okay this one is going to be the toughest part of the manual source package review...
[07:34] <tsimonq2> debian/control time...
[07:35] <arraybolt3[m]> (There are problems I know about in there, so don't be surprised if something looks awry, it is. I only remembered them after pushing the repo.)
[07:35] <arraybolt3[m]> (I'm about to fix them.)
[07:42] <tsimonq2>  - Add your name to uploaders, you did more than I.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/ecbd41023ef5093a37db763cb30f7e21c8bdf8c6)
[07:42] <tsimonq2> I'm going to go afk, I don't expect you to answer all that tonight :)
[07:42] <tsimonq2> Besides those questions that about wraps up the package minus my script gauntlet
[07:43] <arraybolt3[m]> Whew, OK, looks like I have some work cut out for me. At least I got it Lintian clean thought.
[07:43] <tsimonq2> There is literally a script called `check-all-the-things` :P
[07:43] <tsimonq2> Lintian won't save you 100% >:P
[07:43] <tsimonq2> Anyway, thanks for your hard work. I appreciate it
[07:43] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Evidently!
[07:43] <tsimonq2> Have a great night, as always, ping with questions
[07:44] <arraybolt3[m]> Thank you! See you hopefully tomorrow
[07:44] <arraybolt3[m]> * hopefully tomorrow.
 in this particular case they are translations that come from weblate, I will look at the rest of the packages (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> Please excuse my talk to texans I'm driving but if you look at the upstream repositories the individual ones there should be websites commits in each one of the commit histories so and histories so for example feather pad well probably not feather paths probably not a good example maybe PC m
 they are weblate commits
 example —- > https://github.com/lxqt/pcmanfm-qt/commit/640c9e17aa49d07d24a9f61863050d9640bced58
 if that's not what you want, let me know
 my first pull request xD
 https://github.com/lubuntu-team/lubuntu-update-notifier/pull/4
 I have to look at the operation of the po files, supposedly I should see the entire program in Spanish, but I see it in English.
 The same can happen with the Japanese.
[17:06]  * tsimonq2 uploaded an image: (212KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/linuxdelta.com/ziYpiPYZsTojDGUDExRxdmgL/Screenshot_20220701-120610_Reddit.jpg >
 "Screenshot_20220701-120610_Reddi..." <- Yup, true story. libfuse2 is needed for janky appimages. They refuse to update the appimage code to support the newer standard.
[17:16] <tsimonq2> Please elaborate on what the newer standard is, I'm not familiar
[17:16] <kc2bez[m]> I think it is libfuse3
[17:17] <kc2bez[m]> libfuse2 was dropped from main
[17:17] <kc2bez[m]> I will dig up some links in a few.
[17:17] <tsimonq2> Cool, thanks
 Yes is libfuse3 installed by default (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <kc2bez[m]> I think it is libfuse3)
[17:25] <kc2bez[m]> Here is the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1965636
[17:27] <kc2bez[m]> Twitter was on fire over it too. https://twitter.com/probonopd/status/1519816861893939201?s=20&t=4yYxehYhW37or4FXAnC5vw
[17:32] <tsimonq2> Should we join them?
[17:32] <kc2bez[m]> Which side?
[17:32] <kc2bez[m]> XD
[17:32] <kc2bez[m]> We haven't joined either as of yet.
[17:34] <tsimonq2> XD
[17:34] <tsimonq2> Uhhh including it
[17:34] <tsimonq2> Does it take up a lot of space?
 Is in universe (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <kc2bez[m]> libfuse2 was dropped from main)
[17:35] <kc2bez[m]> I don't think it does, we could possibly do that.
[17:36] <kc2bez[m]> They seem to be co-installable.
[17:36] <tsimonq2> I want to know what guiverc @guiverc:matrix.org thinks too :)
[17:36] <kc2bez[m]> lubot: right like everything else that makes us "L"ubuntu
[17:37] <kc2bez[m]> tsimonq2: I agree.
 The problem is solved with sudo apt install libfuse2, but by default it doesn't work (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <kc2bez[m]> They seem to be co-installable.)
[17:38] <kc2bez[m]> Right, it isn't seeded.
[17:44] <kc2bez[m]> I guess my biggest concern here is the security aspect but it is no different than any other package in Universe.
 "I guess my biggest concern..." <- I've done those kind of security updates before.
[19:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I'd say include libfuse2, there are applications (such as LMMS) where the version in the archive doesn't actually have all of the features (LMMS is missing VST support in the archive), but the AppImage does.
[20:36] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): "Please explain what this does: `Rules-Requires-Root: no`" This field specifies whether some form of root privileges (root or fakeroot) are necessary for some part of the build process Since I was able to successfully build the program in Qt Creator without root privileges (to the best of my knowledge), this led me to believe that the package did not require root privileges to build, so I set this field
[20:36] <arraybolt3[m]> to "no" to silence a Lintian gripe.
[20:36] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): "What is the difference between a package with `Architecture: all` and `Architecture: amd64`? Why do you specify amd64 and not all?" The Architecture field specifies what CPU types the package is designed for. Since this package is a binary package, setting `Architecture: all` would be quite wrong, as it would attempt to run one particular CPU's code regardless of what CPU the user has (so an ARM user
[20:36] <arraybolt3[m]> could install it even if it's amd64 code, but it will probably fail to run). `Architecture: any` might possibly work, but Lubuntu only ships installation images for the amd64 architecture AFAIK, so users of other architectures will never use this application. Thus, `Architecture: amd64` is the most sane choice I can see.
[20:36] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Still need to look up the bit about `${misc:Depends}` and `${shlibs:Depends}`.
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): "What..." <- What about in the future when we build Calamares for the RPi?
[20:59] <tsimonq2> I think amd64 is wrong there for long-term expansion purposes
[20:59] <tsimonq2> I mean, we build cala on all arches
[21:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): In that instance, `Architecture: any` may be the way to go. It just seems wasteful to do `Architecture: any` for now, since it's never going to be used. If we do make an installation image for the RPi, then changing it to any would be best IMO.
[21:04] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Is it not possible to change architectures later?
[21:05] <arraybolt3[m]> Siq
[21:05] <arraybolt3[m]> (enter instead of tab strikes again!)
[21:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I guess I can see what you're saying, though, just because Intel/AMD has ruled for the last 20 years or so, doesn't mean it will always be that way. SD cards took over floppy disks. Streaming replaced DVD drives. Cellular, cable, and fiber got the advantage over dial-up. Apple is leaving Intel and going for ARM. So I think I actually agree with you now. I'll change it to `Architecture: any`.
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): In..." <- I figure if we're gonna put this through NEW we should prob do all arches
[21:13] <tsimonq2> So yes arch:any
[21:14] <arraybolt3[m]> (Approaching stuff from the standpoint of being ready for the future is a good idea. It's why Debian is prepped for using GNU/Hurd (like actually) or kfreebsd. It's why Linux Mint has a Debian edition in the event Ubuntu dies (which I sure hope it doesn't!). We should be prepped for modern technologies like Intel CPUs to no longer be commonplace, and be ready to change direction should that happen with minimal effort.)
[21:17] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Quick question, what does "put this through NEW" mean?
[21:24] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Also, I'm a bit stuck trying to make the install file. I'll pastebin the error I'm getting, maybe you can tell me what lubuntu-installer-prompt is doing differently from a bunch of our other packaging, or where I've boffo-ed the packaging.
[21:25] <arraybolt3[m]> https://pastebin.com/a6tBR6YU
[21:26] <arraybolt3[m]> My lubuntu-installer-prompt.install file: https://termbin.com/ygfq
[21:27] <arraybolt3[m]> s/our/the/, s/packaging/software we package/
 "Quick question, what does "put..." <- When you upload a new source package or even upload a source with new binaries on any arch, it goes through a manual review queue
[21:29] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Remove the leading /
[21:29] <tsimonq2> From the last line
[21:29] <arraybolt3[m]> I realized the error I pasted doesn't have enough context, here's the whole thing: https://termbin.com/iy9k
[21:29] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Will try that
[21:32] <arraybolt3[m]> Still getting a nearly identical error message.
[21:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I see what's happening - the build is placing files under "debian/lubuntu-installer-prompt" rather than under "debian/tmp". I can't see any visible difference between what FeatherPad and lubuntu-installer-prompt are doing in their packaging, so I'm suspecting the source code to be at fault here. I think I can make the install file work with it, but would it be preferable to change the source code?
[21:42] <arraybolt3[m]> (I think I figured it out, needed to add a dh_install override to debian/rules IIUC. Let's find out!)
[21:43] <tsimonq2> Try it out, feel free to send patches if you get it and need to modify the source :]
[21:43] <tsimonq2> s/]/)/
[22:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Bah, I can't figure it out. CMake is placing the built files in debian/lubuntu-installer-prompt, not debian/tmp, and I cannot figure out how to get it to put the files in the right spot for the install file to find them. Everything just works without the install file. Suggestions?
[22:41] <tsimonq2> Axe the install file then :]
[22:41] <arraybolt3[m]> (Also tried overriding dh_install to use debian/lubuntu-installer-prompt as the source directory, but since the CMake install process put them where they ultimately were supposed to go in the first place, that just kept erroring out. At this point, I really think omitting the install file entirely would be best.)
[22:41] <tsimonq2> s/]/)/
[22:41] <arraybolt3[m]> OK.
[22:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): "What does `${misc:Depends}` and `${shlibs:Depends}` do? Why are they there?" Debhelper is capable of detecting certain package dependencies and inserting them where these variables are located. `${misc:Depends}` contains any dependencies introduced by Debhelper commands, while `${shlibs:Depends}` contains all of the shared library dependencies for an application. They probably could be removed and the
[22:49] <arraybolt3[m]> necessary dependencies manually filled in instead, but it would be a pain, and potentially be unreliable.
[22:51] <arraybolt3[m]> (There's also `${perl:Depends}` for Perl dependencies, but our app doesn't use Perl, so it's not necessary.)
[22:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): https://github.com/ArrayBolt3/installer-prompt-packaging Builds Lintian clean, applied all suggested changes, installs and works out of the box first time in a live Lubuntu Kinetic ISO. And I couldn't find "check-all-the-things" for Ubuntu with a quick first try, so that's still to be done.
[22:59] <arraybolt3[m]> s/"/`/, s/"/`/
[23:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): One more test I might should run would be to upload this to a PPA and try it out in RISC-V to see what happens there.
[23:24] <arraybolt3[m]> And I accidentally left the "tar-ignore=.gitignore" option. But we didn't care whether it was there or not, so I'm just going to leave it.
[23:25] <arraybolt3[m]> (PPA build was successful on all arches, RISC-V64 build is in progress on my local system.)
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): "What..." <- You're correct. I'd say keep them
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): https..." <- Sweet!
[23:26] <tsimonq2> Nice work, keep it going :]
[23:26] <tsimonq2> s/]/)/
[23:27] <arraybolt3[m]> Thanks, I think this is almost ready!
[23:27] <arraybolt3[m]> If not ready.
[23:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Bug report for lubuntu-installer-prompt. https://github.com/lubuntu-team/installer-prompt/issues/1


[03:45] <loneTiger> hello ...just installed ubuntu and setup precise pangolin......
[03:46] <loneTiger> wth....just happy i got in this IRC chat
[03:46] <loneTiger> any one here???
[03:48] <loneTiger> Hello ????   anyone???
[03:50] <loneTiger> how do I add pidgin to the taskbar????
[03:50] <loneTiger> "menu bar"
[03:50] <loneTiger> ???
[03:50] <loneTiger> Hello???    anyone??
[03:51] <Unit193> Not used unity, but I'd guess there would be a pin option?
[03:52] <loneTiger> pin  option.....how do I do that?
[03:52] <loneTiger> total newbie here.....
[03:53] <Unit193> Well, as no Unity users seem to be here, I'd recommend asking in #ubuntu, sorry I can't help/
[03:53] <loneTiger> and i mean total....I'm checking out / trying out ubuntu 12.04 for he first time...hell seeing linux for th first time......
[03:54] <loneTiger> ok.. thx for the reply though......Unit193   glad to know this IRC thing works.. ( yea...another first for me today)
[03:54] <Unit193> It does, it is wonderful! :D
[03:55] <loneTiger> ok....stumbling to #ubuntu as u suggested.....ciao!!! unit193
[03:58] <Unit193> Have a good one.
[05:58] <llamawithamullet> Hi, does anyone know how to sort files in a folder by name but ignoring "the"? For example I want "The Avengers" to be listed next to "Avatar" instead of being near the bottom of the list
[06:00] <JoseeAntonioR> llamawithamullet: what I've seen is people listing files as "Avengers, The"
[06:00] <JoseeAntonioR> for example
[06:01] <histo> llamawithamullet: i'm trying to think of the easiest way to do this
[06:01] <llamawithamullet> Ah, that's a good idea
[06:01] <JoseeAntonioR> or "Flintstones, The"
[06:02] <llamawithamullet> It would be nice for the name to stay the same. I think windows might ignore "the"? Its a shame ubuntu doesnt give you the option
[06:02] <histo> llamawithamullet: sure you can there are many ways to do it i'm just trying to think of the easiest
[06:03] <llamawithamullet> Ohk cheers
[06:03] <JoseeAntonioR> exactly, I haven't really used it as I needn't it
[06:04] <histo> llamawithamullet: there is the sort command but not sure if you could ignore the in the beginning
[06:06] <llamawithamullet> Thats a shame. Guess I'll just change the file names. Thanks for the help
[06:12] <histo> well he could have used ls -I   for ignore
[10:01] <anas> Can anyone help me with Changing 802.11bgn to 802.11bg in Ubuntu 12.04 as I am facing frequent disconnects of my Wifi connection
[10:01] <bioterror> connect with browser to your wlan ap
[10:01] <bioterror> and configure
[10:02] <anas> Can you explain it ? I am a new linux user
[10:02] <bioterror> it has nothing to do with Linux
[10:03] <anas> What is wlan ap ?
[10:03] <bioterror> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_access_point
[10:05] <ButterflyOfFire> anas, do you want to change your WiFi card and install 802.11bg rather than b/g/n on your machine, or do you want to change your Access Point WLAN config ?
[10:09] <anas> Actually I recently installed Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and was constantly getting Wifi disconnects unlike in my Windows 7. I Googled and found this
[10:09] <anas> Code:
[10:09] <anas> gksudo gedit /etc/modprobe.d/rtl8192ce.conf
[10:09] <anas> and inserting this into the file : options rtl8192ce swenc=1
[10:12] <anas> It was also written change router settings to the one i mentioned
[10:13] <anas> That meant when I type "iwconfig" in terminal, in front of wlan0, it should display "bg" instead of "bgn"
[10:13] <anas> how to do that ?
[10:18] <bioterror> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man8/iwconfig.8.html and "modulation"
[10:21] <anas> In the modulation part some commands are mentioned, but not sure which one to make it 802.11gb
[10:21] <anas> sorry 802.11 bg
[10:23] <bioterror> my wife's laptop
[10:24] <bioterror> titia@salamanteri:~% iwlist modulation                                                                                .:13:20:16 on 12-08-20:.
[10:24] <bioterror> wlan0     unknown modulation information.
[10:24] <bioterror> D:
[10:24] <bioterror> how about yours?
[10:24] <anas> same
[10:25] <anas> but when i type "iwconfig" then this: wlan0     IEEE 802.11bgn  ESSID:"ION@14th-Block"
[10:25] <anas> I have to change that bgn to bg somehow
[10:33] <bioterror> hard to say, never really had the need to do it
[10:51] <ButterflyOfFire> if you Wifi card (reciever) is a b/g/n, it will display bgn, if it is a native b/g it will diplay bgn. This is normal
[10:53] <ButterflyOfFire> your*
[10:53] <ButterflyOfFire> if it is b/g it will display bg sorry
[10:55] <ButterflyOfFire> The problem of wifi getting connected and disconnected has a link with the driver of your wifi controller
[10:56] <ButterflyOfFire> Try to install the right driver (even proprietary or may use ndiswrapper)


[00:31] <maileh> roaksoax: anything you might suggest and i have'nt recieved anything after filing the bug
[00:52] <maileh> this is another extract from Commission Summary hw:setting:                 id: modified                 value: 2016-03-14 22:24:35               - lshw:setting:                 id: mount.fstype                 value: ext4               - lshw:setting:                 id: mount.options                 value: ro,relatime,data=ordered               - lshw:setting:                 id: mounted ....looks like it is OK
[00:54] <maileh> roaksoax: anything yet ???
[01:33] <mup> Bug #1576468 opened: APC Power Driver - NoneType' object has no attribute 'decode' <MAAS:Triaged by newell-jensen> <MAAS 1.9:Triaged by newell-jensen> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576468>
[02:40] <maileh> alexlist: can you help with my issue
[02:58] <maileh> helo anyone online now ???
[03:05] <maileh> helo
[07:54] <maileh> hellow
[07:55] <DavidRama> hello
[07:58] <maileh> hi david .... are you able to help my issue
[07:59] <maileh> MAAS successfully commisioned my two nodes yet it shows error on my machines detail page on storage section saying that i need to commossion my nodes before disk can be setup
[08:01] <maileh> david: ????
[09:50] <DavidRama> maileh: sorry I'm new to that also
[15:38] <mup> Bug #1576758 opened: [2.0b3] IP Ranges section on the subnet page should be shown even if no ranges <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576758>
[17:53] <bdx> hey whats up everyone?
[17:54] <bdx> will beta -> stable upgrades be supported?
[17:54] <bdx> for maas2.0
[17:55] <roaksoax> bdx: upgradability is a primary focus for maas
[17:55] <roaksoax> bdx: but yes, you'll be able to upgrade from beta to final without issues
[18:04] <bdx> roaksoax: awesome, thanks
[18:05] <bdx> roaksoax: when are you guys planning on dropping beta4?
[18:06] <roaksoax> bdx: we are testing right now
[18:06] <roaksoax> bdx: and waiting for a couple bug fixes to land
[18:07] <bdx> roaksoax: right on, will beta4 have improved functionality for lxd/lxc networking?
[18:07] <roaksoax> bdx: that actually comes from Juju
[18:07] <roaksoax> bdx: since MAAS doesn't really deploy lxd containers
[18:08] <roaksoax> bdx: but yes, maas 2.0 w/ juju 2.0 should have better lxd container networking
[18:08] <bdx> roaksoax: doesn't maas provision the network interfaces on containers though?
[18:09] <roaksoax> bdx: not for containers
[18:09] <bdx> ok
[18:10] <roaksoax> bdx: so since MAAS 1.8+ i think we supported registering containers , but juju never used the feature by default
[18:10] <roaksoax> bdx: maas ensures that IP addresses are reserved for the container and specific interface and such
[18:10] <roaksoax> bdx: but juju never used the feature by default
[18:10] <roaksoax> bdx: when you enabled it, juju didn't write e/n/i for the container, so maas would deliver everythin via DHC{
[18:10] <roaksoax> bdx: when you enabled it, juju didn't write e/n/i for the container, so maas would deliver everythin via DHCP
[18:11] <roaksoax> bdx: but since MAAS doesn't really provision the container, it cannot write e/n/i for it
[18:11] <bdx> totally
[18:11] <bdx> but the container gets its provisioning metadata from MAAS yea?
[18:11] <roaksoax> bdx: so, supposedly, Juju 2.0 will enable container registration in MAAS by default, and correctly e/n/i
[18:11] <roaksoax> bdx: but haven't tested yet
[18:11] <roaksoax> bdx: nope, conatiner gets everything from juju, other than the IP addresses
[18:12] <roaksoax> bdx: basically, juju just says "register a device under machine XYZ, and I want IP addresses for A, B, C interfaces/mac addresses"
[18:12] <bdx> I see
[18:12] <roaksoax> bdx: and maas returns that info, and juju creates the container, and configures it as ti should
[18:12] <bdx> but how does juju/maas know what interface to attach the container to?
[18:13] <roaksoax> bdx: so say in a machine you configured eth0 to subnet1, eth1 to subnet2
[18:13] <roaksoax> bdx: when you deploy a machine, juju asks for a machine in subnet1/subnet2
[18:13] <roaksoax> bdx: and if you want your container in subnet1
[18:13] <roaksoax> bdx: it puts it in subnet1
[18:14] <roaksoax> bdx: so MAAS provides the interfaces juju needs to do that
[18:14] <bdx> I see, do you know where this code lives, does it exist yet?
[18:14] <roaksoax> bdx: putting it on a different way, MAAS provides juju with information about the phisical world, so juju can do stuff
[18:15] <bdx> totaly
[18:15] <roaksoax> bdx: on juju, I don't know where it lives
[18:15] <bdx> ok
[18:15] <roaksoax> bdx: on maas, we do it via constraints
[18:15] <roaksoax> mpontillo: ^^ where are the network constraints ?
[18:15] <bdx> but if no constraints are passed, is a default used?
[18:15] <roaksoax> bdx: yeah if no constraints are passed, juju just takes the first interface of MAAS IIRC
[18:18] <bsod90> hey guys! I have a question: when maas is deploying one of my nodes which has 2 NICs connected to 2 different networks, both enabled, one getting IP from MAAS DHCP, another one from the other network DHCP. How does it decide which default route to set? I'd like it to always point to our company network rather that management one, but I'm feeling like it's set just randomly.
[18:20] <bdx> bsod90: your machine will use the last gateway route configured
[18:20] <bdx> bsod90: I get around that by not setting the gateway in my subsequent dhcp configured interfaces
[18:20] <roaksoax> bsod90: you can set that in maas : maas <session> node-interface set-default-gateway
[18:21] <bdx> roaksoax: I see, what if your interfaces can't talk on the same net?
[18:21] <bdx> similar to my situation
[18:21] <roaksoax> bdx: then this may solve your problem? https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1519828
[18:21] <roaksoax> :)
[18:21] <roaksoax> bdx: we might do that for 2.1
[18:22] <bdx> if I set dhcp on multiple subnets using maas, my nodes error when pxe booting due to getting dhcp from the wrong subnet
[18:23] <bsod90> I see. Thank you, bdx and roaksoax
[18:23] <bdx> roaksoax: so, I just configured 3rd party dhcp <- also doesn't set the gateway on subsequent interfaces
[18:23] <mpontillo> roaksoax: bdx: when you use the "machines allocate" endpoint you can specify a list of constraints (should be documented in the normal way the APIs are doc'd)
[18:23] <roaksoax> bdx: you are setting DHCP on multiple subnets under the same VLAN ? or different VLANs ?
[18:23] <mpontillo> roaksoax: bdx: you can also use the "verbose" and "dry_run" options on that endpoint to experiment with constraints and see a little more info
[18:24] <bdx> different vlans
[18:24] <bdx> mpontillo: oooh thats awesome
[18:24] <mpontillo> roaksoax: bdx: basically when that API returns you will see a "constraints_by_type" object on the node, specifying which storage or interface constraints matched what you specified
[18:24] <roaksoax> bdx: so that means the machine has eth0 and eth1, eth0 being PXE, but it DHCP's from the range that is supposed to be on a different VLAN to where the node has been connected to ?
[18:25] <roaksoax> bdx: and physically, they are different 'untagged' VLANs or the same VLAN in the switch?
[18:25] <bdx> roaksoax: I can replicate in all scenarios ...
[18:26]  * mpontillo steps out for lunch
[18:27] <bdx> roaksoax: a node with multiple interfaces, each interface gets dhcp from maas on different vlan and subnet
[18:27] <bdx> it hasn't made a difference whether the vlans are on separate switches, I disallow all comms from one to the other at the router level
[18:28] <roaksoax> bdx: right, but in MAAS you do that by enabling DHCP on different vlans on the same fabric, or same VLANS (for example, untagged), on different fabrics
[18:29] <bdx> roaksoax: entirely
[18:29] <roaksoax> bdx: so say, fabric0->untagged->subnet1 fabric1->untagged->subnet2
[18:29] <roaksoax> bdx: and fabric0/fabric1 is a different collection of switches
[18:29] <roaksoax> anyway
[18:29] <roaksoax> i'm giuessing this may be the issue with isc-dhcp we have a bug for
[18:30] <bdx> roaksoax: I see, yea, but how do you stop maas from handing out pxe on non mgmt subnets?
[18:31] <bdx> I think that is (at a high level) the root issue
[18:32] <roaksoax> bdx: oh so you mean you dont want to provide a next-server in certain subnet's range ?
[18:32] <roaksoax> bdx: can you file a bug for that ?
[18:32] <bdx> roaksoax: entirely, provide dhcp, but not next. but I don't know how to make that happen within the context of maas
[18:33] <bdx> yea
[18:33] <roaksoax> bdx: i was thiking about that couple weeks ago
[18:33] <roaksoax> bdx: but completely forgot about it :)
[18:33] <bdx> yea, its been biting me since 1.7
[18:33] <roaksoax> bdx: but yes, I do think it makes sense. You may want to enable DHCP on VLAN1, but not specifically for PXE, just for machines to get IP'sl from there
[18:33] <roaksoax> bdx: but in 1.9/2.0 you do know you don't really need to set DHCP for a NIC that's not management ...
[18:34] <roaksoax> bdx: you can allow maas to configure e/n/i for that interface, in the subnet you want
[18:34] <roaksoax> bdx: which is not "management"
[18:35] <bdx> so, what you are saying basically, is that the work around is to use other methods than dhcp to configure subsequent interfaces ?
[18:35] <bdx> I see
[18:36] <roaksoax> bdx: right, so say eth0 (pxe) -> fabric0 -> subnet1 -> auto-assign -> this would be NIC for the management netework
[18:36] <roaksoax> bdx: but then, eth1 -> fabric1 -> subnet1 -> auto-assign
[18:36] <roaksoax> bdx: maas would automatically pick an IP on subnet1
[18:37] <roaksoax> bdx: so you could even do:
[18:37] <roaksoax> eth0 (pxe) -> fabric0 -> untagged -> subnet1 -> auto-assign
[18:37] <bdx> Ahhh, auto-assign does not use dhcp?
[18:37] <roaksoax> eth1.1 -> fabric0 -> vlan1 -> subnet2 -> auto-assign # no DHCP is enabled in VLAN10, but MAAS will automatically pick an IP on subnet2
[18:38] <bdx> entirely
[18:38] <roaksoax> bdx: starting from 2.0, DHCP is really only used for enlistment and commissioning
[18:38] <bdx> ahhh, I see. Well that basically solves the issue
[18:38] <roaksoax> bdx: (same is the case for 1.9, but we had static ranges in the past, MAAS 2.0 no longer has static ranges)
[18:38] <bdx> I see that
[18:39] <roaksoax> bdx: but the bug you mention, about allowing to enable DHCP without PXE is completely valid
[18:39] <bdx> ok, I'll file it
[18:39] <roaksoax> thanks!
[18:39] <bdx> so, while I've got your attention .... the other issue that has caused a great deal of contention for me is disk replacement
[18:40] <bdx> I'm sure you are familiar with the issues surrounding disk replacement ?
[18:40] <roaksoax> bdx: meaning, you have a machine deployed, disk failed, you want to replace it, but want to keep your machine deployed, and not release it and recommission /
[18:40] <roaksoax> ?
[18:40] <bdx> exactly
[18:41] <roaksoax> bdx: yes, I've heard about the issue
[18:41] <roaksoax> we currently not support that yet, but I'll definitely raise that
[18:41]  * roaksoax takes note
[18:41] <bdx> if I reboot with out recommissioning, my disks numbering get out of whack and I endup borking the node
[18:41] <bdx> thank you
[18:42] <bdx> this has caused me multiple trips to the datacenter, and has been probably the lagest point of contention I've had using MAAS to date
[18:42] <bdx> I appreciate you looking into it
[18:42] <bdx> I filed a bug a while back .... let me see if I can't dig it up
[18:43] <roaksoax> bdx: np! the only issue I can think related to that, is that the new disk won't have the same partitioning as maas think the disk has
[18:43] <roaksoax> but we can definitely explore that and see if that lands in the roadmap for 2.1
[18:45] <bdx> yea, so, I can't get maas to recognize the new disk w/o recommissioning, the os will reletter the disks upon reboot, and then maas has a new /dev/sda, that wasn't previously sda :-(
[18:46] <bdx> the os does at least
[18:46] <bdx> maas retains the previous disk assignments
[18:46] <bdx> and thus the issue
[18:46] <bdx> thanks for hearing me out
[18:47] <roaksoax> bdx: yeah, I know what you mean. We've talked about that before indeed
[18:48] <roaksoax> bdx: maas doesn't have a way to discover current partitioning
[18:48] <roaksoax> so maas would need to grow a way to enter into a maintenance mode while deployed
[18:48] <roaksoax> and do a "recommission"
[18:48] <roaksoax> but force the user to re-partitioning
[18:48] <roaksoax> and maas would just update the knowledge it has about disks
[18:48] <roaksoax> or something along those lines
[18:48] <bdx> entirely, that would be HUGE
[18:49] <bdx> I feel like MAAS deployed storage nodes are ticking timebombs to that affect
[18:49] <roaksoax> yeah I'll bring that up when we discuss MAAS roadmap next
[18:50] <bdx> SUPER!
[18:53] <bdx> the CIO of my company constantly brings up the storage thing as a downside to implementing MAAS in production ... you can use that as firepower if you want
[18:54] <roaksoax> bdx: hehe, don't worry it is already added in the ideas section
[18:54] <roaksoax> but will use that as feedback from the field
[19:12] <Chuckuzzo> using version 1.9.1, MAAS CLI to assign a VLAN to a space.  Getting "Too many Subnet objects match the given query"… any idea?
[19:18] <roaksoax> mpontillo: ^^
[19:19] <mpontillo> Chuckuzzo: can you pastebin the exact command you're using?
[19:19] <mpontillo> (or just paste it, should be short) ;-)
[19:20] <Chuckuzzo> maas mymaas subnet update vlan:50 name=public-api space=4 gateway_ip=<IP_ADDRESS>
[19:20] <Chuckuzzo> Following Dimiter's blog
[19:20] <Chuckuzzo> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/01/23/maas-setup-deploying-openstack-on-maas-1-9-with-juju/
[19:20] <mpontillo> Chuckuzzo: ah, yeah, it would be nice if that affected both subnets in that VLAN, come to think of it. but that's currently not how it works
[19:21] <mpontillo> Chuckuzzo: it seems that you need to narrow your subnet query so that it only matches a single subnet
[19:21] <Chuckuzzo> Would that be in MAAS setup or the OS network side?
[19:22] <mpontillo> Chuckuzzo: well, you can use the same command, but to place your subnet into that space use "ip:<any-ip-address-in-the-subnet>" for each subnet you want to place into the space
[19:23] <mpontillo> Chuckuzzo: in place of "vlan:50" that is
[19:23] <mpontillo> Chuckuzzo: or you can specify the subnet by ID, but that would require looking it up
[19:23] <Chuckuzzo> I'll give that a try
[19:32] <Chuckuzzo> That worked
[19:32] <Chuckuzzo> Many thanks!
[19:33] <mpontillo> Chuckuzzo: np
[21:06] <mup> Bug #1576854 opened: MAAS should be able to use power commands with rack controllers <MAAS:New for ltrager> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576854>


[08:02] <guiverc_t> i've done planet articles... have ran out of time...  lots of my usual comments (thoughts)


[04:18] <locodir-user> hello
[04:18] <locodir-user> no one here?
[04:19] <benonsoftware> Hello locodir-user
[06:57] <dholbach> good morning


[18:15] <Jfbourdeau> Just installed ( former linux mint user) ubutun budgie... MY symantec keyboard volume up, down, mute do not work I must create shortcuts with CTRL + volume up, down, mute for the shortcut to work.. Is there a way to simply use the vulume up and down button ?
[18:15] <Jfbourdeau> how can we configure the dock bar where apps appear when we open them, to not dissapear ? It show / hide if we mouse over it, but I am affraid my wife will go crazy What is the best way to install Mozilla thunderbird as it doesn't show in the SOFTWARE module ? TKS !!


[00:53] <guiverc> 22.10 kinetic kudo fridge posted to all social media too finally
[00:54]  * guiverc had to wait for phone to charge so I could use 2fa delayed things a bit
[01:35] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Ubuntu 22.10: What’s New in the Official Flavours? @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/10/ubuntu-22-10-whats-new-in-the-official-flavours (by Joey Sneddon)
[01:45] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Vivaldi Web Browser Continues Adding Every Feature, Ever @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/10/vivaldi-5-5-adds-tasks-feature (by Joey Sneddon)
[01:59] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Fridge:: Ubuntu 22.10 (Kinetic Kudu) released @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2022/10/20/ubuntu-22-10-kinetic-kudu-released/ (by guiverc)
[02:09] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Ubuntu 22.10: What’s New in the Official Flavours? @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/10/ubuntu-22-10-whats-new-in-the-official-flavours (by Joey Sneddon)
[04:55] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Integrating Charmed Kubernetes with AWS via OIDC @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/integrating-charmed-kubernetes-with-aws-via-oidc
[04:59] <Bashing-om> IssueTemplate updated to include 22.10 in security and updates sections.
[05:05] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Security:: Episode 181 @ https://ubuntusecuritypodcast.org/episode-181/
[05:42] <guiverc> :) on 22.10; hadn't thought of that (yet anyway)
[05:47] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Look at all that *YOU* do think of :P
[05:48] <guiverc> :)  but just noticed my mispelling of kudu hours earlier so :(
[09:28] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: What’s new in Ubuntu Desktop 22.10, Kinetic Kudu @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/whats-new-in-ubuntu-desktop-22-10-kinetic-kudu
[09:28] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: What? The Steam snap is evolving! @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/what-the-steam-snap-is-evolving
[15:58] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::UbuntuOnAir:: Let's Collaborate on Content | UbuntuOnAir @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gvBQd-PJpc (by Ubuntu OnAir)
[16:17] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::UbuntuOnAir:: Ubuntu Desktop Team Indaba - October 21, 2022 @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJtU3c-lKFM (by Ubuntu OnAir)


[06:44] <Fableflame> Hello, I'm new here.
[08:41] <alourie> good morning
[08:45] <Fableflame> Hello
[08:56] <jibel> good morning
[08:56] <jibel> mvo, just to avoid overlap, I'm investigating the lts-server upgrade failure
[08:56] <jibel> and will file a bug
[09:10] <Fableflame> What's up?
[09:12] <brendand> gema - if we create wiki pages to cover the work we do for the QA tasks, should they go under QATeam on the Ubuntu wiki?
[09:24] <mvo> jibel: thanks
[09:28] <Fableflame> So how complicated is it, helping ubuntu-testing?
[09:29] <brendand> Fableflame - it depends what you want to do
[09:29] <brendand> Fableflame - do you already participate in ISO testing?
[09:48] <Fableflame> brendand, No, I've kind of just gained interest in helping out.
[09:55] <Fableflame> brendand, welcome back
[10:11] <Fableflame> brendand, you having connection issues?
[10:11] <brendand> Fableflame - i'm alright, just flicking between systems
[10:18] <Fableflame> ah
[10:25] <Fableflame> So, how complicated is ISO testing?
[10:27] <brendand> Fableflame - ISO testing is straightforward
[10:27] <brendand> Fableflame - It's only done at certain release points though. Alpha 1 was just finished last week
[10:28] <Fableflame> Then what about testing daily builds? That's smoke testing, right?
[10:43] <brendand> Fableflame - technically, no
[10:44] <brendand> Fableflame - you can test the daily images if you like, but have you seen the mail on the ubuntu-qa mailing list?
[10:44] <Fableflame> No, I haven't joined any mailing lists yet.
[10:45] <brendand> Fableflame - ok. https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-qa
[10:45] <Fableflame> I just decided that I wanted to be a part of this a couple of hours ago
[10:57] <Fableflame> Looking at the last message that was posted, I don't know if there is anything there that I can do.
[10:58] <Fableflame> Maybe I should re-read it
[11:02] <brendand> Fableflame - next ISO testing is the start of February
[11:02] <brendand> Fableflame - if you have a spare system you can run alpha1 on and keep updating, then report bugs if you find issues
[11:03] <Fableflame> brendand, using it on my main system actually won't be a problem, I don't use it for anything important, really.
[11:05] <brendand> Fableflame - ok. bear in mind it can be unstable (hopefully not but no guarantees)
[11:09] <Fableflame> brendand, will do. The only thing I use this laptop for is facebook and email. I keep windows on my desktop for Steam.
[11:11] <Fableflame> brendand, also when I install the alpha1, should I just stick to using the apps that come with it, or should I install the apps that I normally use? Like I use Gnome3 instead of Unity on this install.
[11:12] <brendand> Fableflame - to be honest, unity bugs will be much more useful than gnome-shell bugs, but who am I to tell you what to use
[11:12] <Fableflame> brendand, that's kind of what I was thinking, what with everybody constantly complaining about Unity. I don't dislike it, I just prefer Gnome.
[11:13] <Fableflame> but I can stick with Unity for testing's sake
[11:22] <Fableflame> brendand, has anybody gotten back to you about testing apt yet? Because that sounds like something simple enough that I could handle.
[11:23] <brendand> Fableflame - well, this is more in the context of testing it automatically on a regular basis. i wouldn't imagine it would be worth someone doing manually with every build
[11:24] <Fableflame> brendand, oh. You'll have to forgive me. I'm hoping this gets easier the longer I'm around.
[11:25] <Fableflame> I've never contributed to a project like this before
[12:45] <Fableflame> Hey
[12:45] <Fableflame> Is 12.04 supposed to look exactly like 11.10 at this point? The background on the log in screen even still says 11.10.
[13:19] <patdk-wk> yes
[13:19] <patdk-wk> I don't think that stuff changes till beta
[13:21] <jibel> Fableflame, that is bug 892394
[13:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 892394 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu Precise) (and 2 other projects) "Greeter logo needs to be updated for 12.04 (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 16)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892394
[13:26] <Fableflame> jibel, oh okay
[13:27] <jibel> yw
[13:28] <Fableflame> jibel, yeah, thanks.
[13:28] <Fableflame> I need to make a launchpad account
[14:20] <Fableflame> So once I'm all registered with Launchpad, should I start doing Test Cases?
[15:27] <alourie> hello again
[16:21] <stgraber> skaet, jibel, Daviey, utlemming: Working API to push results to the ISO tracker, just replace my login by yours and blablabla by the API key you set in User profile: http://paste.ubuntu.com/761764/
[16:22] <utlemming> stgraber: awesome, thank you kindly
[16:22] <stgraber> I'd suggest setting up separate accounts (local drupal accounts) for thins like Jenkins (like we have for our ubuntu-cdimage account)
[16:22] <stgraber> API currently only allows pushing results, I'm finishing testing the one for updates, listing results and removing results
[16:22] <skaet> stgraber: *\o/*  thanks!!!
[16:23]  * skaet starts to look forward to seeing the results showing up
[16:23] <jibel> congrats stgraber that's great
[16:24] <stgraber> doh, just noticed I missed something kind of important in the API, linking bugs ...
[16:24] <alourie> does this mean possibly external apps for tracking?
[16:24] <stgraber> will post an updated python script in a few minutes with the updated API call (I'll add bugs and critical_bugs, both being lists of ints)
[16:24] <alourie> s/tracking/iso testing/ ?
[16:29] <stgraber> jibel, utlemming, Daviey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/761775/
[16:29] <stgraber> updated to include an extra "bugs" parameter which is a dictionary of bugnumber (bugnumber string) => bugimportance (0 = regular, 1 = critical)
[16:35] <stgraber> alourie: yep, with the API you can do most of what's available on the website (at least once it's complete), so the initial use is for automated testing, but someone could also have checkbox or something else push results directly
[16:44] <alourie> stgraber: I thought actually about, maybe, more "single-task" applet, such as application with indicator. A participant would get, say, notification "There's a test available for you. Would you mind running it?", then person says yes, runs the test according to instructions, and reports the result right there.
[16:45] <alourie> no website, login each time, etc
[17:41] <stgraber> alourie: definitely doable, would just need to export the subscriptions API too so the indicator can query what the user subscribed too, the rest is already possible with the current API
[21:20] <alourie> gema: ping
[21:23] <gema> alourie: pong
[21:29] <alourie> gema: I may not be able to make the meeting tomorrow
[21:30] <gema> alourie: ok, no worries, I will send a link to the logs to the list
[21:30] <gema> alourie: if you have any update, you can send it to me whenever you can
[21:30] <alourie> so I'll read the logs later, and whichever you decide - I'll probably take it offline
[21:30] <alourie> :-)
[21:30] <alourie> sure
[21:30] <alourie> thanks
[21:30] <gema> alourie: thank you :)
[21:31] <gema> alourie: we won't give you any extra tasks, no worries :D
[21:38] <alourie> gema: I have no problems with extra tasks :-)
[21:39] <gema> alourie: haha, no tasks for no present people, that's the rule, you can send any comments/questions/progress on your current tasks to the list
[21:39] <gema> alourie: I am really excited with so many collaborators
[21:39] <alourie> yea
[21:39] <alourie> it's been awhile since it was like that
[21:40] <alourie> it's been quiet area in community QA for some time
[21:40] <gema> yep
[21:40] <alourie> I want to PR it now
[21:40] <gema> go for it
[21:41] <alourie> I am
[21:41] <alourie> :-)
[21:41] <gema> :)
[21:41] <alourie> need a bit more time
[21:41] <alourie> but I'll get there
[21:41] <gema> yep, I feel quite overwhelmed too, but getting there
[21:41] <Fableflame> Has anyone had the Update Manager freeze up on you?
[21:42] <alourie> Fableflame: no, not really
[21:42] <gema> Fableflame: me neither
[21:42] <Fableflame> After clicking "Install Updates" it just kinda greys out and sits there.
[21:42] <gema> Fableflame: which version are you using?
[21:43] <Fableflame> 12.04
[21:43] <gema> I have been told that A1 has problems with the updates, so maybe you are seeing a version of that problem
[21:43] <Fableflame> ah
[21:43] <gema> but I am not sure, jibel is your man, when he is online, tomorrow
[21:43] <gema> or maybe hggdh has seen it too
[21:44] <Fableflame> It just came back, didn't install anything. I tried again and it's doing the same thing O.o
[21:44] <gema> sorry I have to leave for today, talk to you tomorrow
[21:45] <Fableflame> Yup, there is already a bug filed. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/894671
[21:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 894671 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager freezes after initialization (affects: 3) (heat: 31)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[21:45] <alourie> Fableflame: I have it crashing a lot, so I do it manually
[21:46] <alourie> s/it crashing/update manager crashing/
[21:46] <Fableflame> the command for apt is apt-get update, right?
[21:47] <alourie> yes
[21:47] <alourie> that will fetch the updates
[21:47] <alourie> and then 'upgrade' will actually do the upgrade
[21:47] <roadmr> Fableflame: usually apt-get update (updates the packages lists), followed by either apt-get upgrade (apply available updates) or apt-get install foo (install just package foo plus its dependencies)
[21:48] <Fableflame> thanks guys
[21:48] <alourie> yea, what roadmr said :-)
[21:49] <Fableflame> What's foo? Sorry, I'm kind of a noob.
[21:49] <alourie> Fableflame: it's a generic name for a package, not anything specifiv
[21:49] <Fableflame> oh haha
[21:49] <alourie> just an example
[21:50] <alourie> you'll see it  used a lot around code examples
[21:50] <roadmr> sorry, should have clarified on that :)
[21:51] <Fableflame> No problem. I should probably be a little more informed before I attempt helping out with testing.
[21:54] <roadmr> Fableflame: all help is appreciated, and nobody was born knowing everything, so asking is ok
[21:55] <Fableflame> roadmr, thanks. So far people here seem pretty friendly.
[21:59] <alourie> Fableflame: well, you've just started. We're going to be much worse later.
[21:59] <Fableflame> haha
[22:00] <alourie> don't worry, just be patient. Sometimes, you won't get answers right away, as noone would be awake to do so.
[22:04] <Fableflame> I can't seem to find the list of bugs.
[22:08] <Fableflame> Found it
[22:10] <Fableflame> Are there no open bugs for Ubuntu Testing Team?
[22:11] <Fableflame> Or do we just file our bugs with the rest of Ubuntu?
[22:14] <alourie> Fableflame: what do you mean? filing and triaging bugs are 2 tasks within the QA team.
[22:14] <alourie> testing is another task
[22:15] <Fableflame> oh
[22:15] <alourie> actually, filing bugs is not just /our/ task, it's everyones'
[22:15] <alourie> :-)
[22:15] <Fableflame> So what do I do if I come across something that doesn't work right?
[22:15] <alourie> file a bug, of course
[22:16] <alourie> if you're sure it's a bug
[22:24] <Fableflame> Where do I file bugs at? I don't want to accidentally file them in the wrong place.
[22:26] <roadmr> Fableflame: someone will look at them for triaging after you file them, so it's not too bad if you file them in a wrong place
[22:27] <roadmr> Fableflame: best way to file a bug is from within ubuntu, open a terminal and type ubuntu-bug package
[22:27] <roadmr> Fableflame: where package is the one where you found the bug
[22:27] <Fableflame> oh ok
[22:27] <roadmr> Fableflame: for instance ubuntu-bug firefox
[22:27] <roadmr> Fableflame: if later it turns out that the problem was in Flash rather than in firefox, a triager and/or developer will figure it out and change it
[22:28] <roadmr> Fableflame: the advantage to using ubuntu-bug is that it adds a bunch of debugging information, such as hardware data, software versions, and so on
[22:28] <Fableflame> oh okay
[22:29] <Fableflame> Do I need to set up my SSH key first? I just finished setting up my PGP.
[22:29] <roadmr> Fableflame: not necessarily, you can file bugs without having configured the SSH key
[22:30] <Fableflame> ok
[22:30] <Fableflame> brb, gotta reboot


[11:50] <dpm> hi kelemengabor, quick question, do you think yelp-xslt should be listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslationDeadline ?
[11:50] <dpm> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/yelp-xsl/+pots/yelp-xsl
[11:56] <kelemengabor> dpm: I never thought so
[11:56] <kelemengabor> IMHO, not that important to warrant a rebuild
[11:57] <kelemengabor> we should be fine just with shipping what upstream provides
[11:59] <dpm> kelemengabor, in that case we might as well disable it from LP, but did it not contain some visible strings that can be seen when displaying the help?
[12:08] <kelemengabor> dpm: for sure, but all of them are merged into an xml file: http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/all/yelp-xsl/filelist
[12:09] <kelemengabor> and we currently don't care to rebuild the package, and maybe it's good this way
[12:10] <dpm> so your recommendation would be to disable the template?
[12:13] <kelemengabor> My take is if we can't make sure that a translation actually reaches our users, we should not  ask people to make it in the first place. So yeah, because it's more honest to say "please do it in upstream".
[12:14] <kelemengabor> but we may disagree on this :)
[12:22] <dpm> I think if we put it in the list, the Desktop team could do the merge, but as I cannot ensure it, and being pragmatic, let's disable it. In any case, I myself would rather say "more practical" than "more honest", as no one is trying to be dishonest here ;)
[12:23] <dpm> ok, disabled
[16:44] <andrejz> Hi! When compiz crashes in precise I see the following window - http://screencloud.net/v/9DyT - does anyone know where the strings could originate from. From my search it seems apport is not the source
[16:46] <dpm> hi andrejz, it is an apport hook. I think they are shipped by each package, not by apport. So in this case, it might be in the Compiz package
[16:46] <dpm> but I would bet it is not marked for translation
[16:48] <kelemengabor> or from the apport-symptoms package, which is intentionally left untranslated. You can't file a bug report in other languages than English anyways.
[16:55] <dpm> yep, that sounds a better candidate for a package
[19:37] <Geochr> Hi translators,
[19:38] <Geochr> keep in your mind the following bug when you translate in "Reviewer mode"
[19:38] <Geochr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/975970