[19:28] <slackguru> So, how doesone sift through what is operated by upstart and whatis still operated by common Sys-V scripting?
[19:32] <slackguru> It seems that if upstart plans to 'replace' the standard System-V scripting, that the /etc/init.d should also be replaced.
[19:33] <slackguru> Does UBUNTU plan to move further away from the current  standards? We already have a perfectly good System-V init model and the BSD style init model both of which are considered standards? I guess I don'tunderstand what is hoped to be achieved by implementing upstart.
[19:35] <slackguru> I am reading on upstartnow, and am wishing I could find some documentation on removing it. I am familiar with the System-V and the BSD style init that Slackware and BSD use, but right now, upstart just seems unwanted.
[19:38] <slackguru> It seems, that because of UPSTART, I have unwanted start-up scripts that  remain after software removal.
[19:38] <slackguru> It also appears that some of the things that upstart controls do not properly appear as system services.
[19:40] <slackguru> Because of this, I can not disable certain things fromrunning on start up without figuring out what exactly it is that upstart does. The website is fairly vague and contains very poor examples.
[19:40] <slackguru> Does Sys-V still run cron and atd or is that controlled by upstart. What about Evolution?
[19:56] <Md> slackguru: some ubuntu packages already replaced their init scripts with upstart config files
[19:56] <slackguru> I see that
[19:56] <slackguru> ln -s to another folder, thus all the confusion
[19:58] <slackguru> I have been immersed in the upstart.ubuntu.com website and it does not appear clear how to reverse the process. I recently upgraded from 8.04.3 LTS to 9.10 Karmic since they havethe same support ending date and will upgrade to the next LTS when available. When did upstart become a permanent addition?
[19:59] <Md> reverse what?
[20:01] <slackguru> It appears that upstart may be the culprit behind some of the problematic things I am experiencing and I would like to remove it until I can readu up on it further, but those packages that have already updated their scripts to upstart will then become problematic.
[20:01] <slackguru> brb
[20:02] <Md> ok, you cannot
[20:02] <Md> and I highly doubt that it's at fault
[20:02] <Md> anyway, this is a development channel. I recommend you look for help on an users-oriented channel like #ubuntu
[20:08] <slackguru> That isn't what upstart.ubuntu.com suggests.
[20:11] <slackguru> And the folks in #ubuntu are for more generalized support... Discussion about upstart (development and otherwise) takes place in #upstart on irc.freenode.net
[20:12] <slackguru> I need help with upstart, it's proper operation, converting everything to using it or removing it entirely. Are either a possibility?
[20:13] <raphael___> I guess it would be easier to help if you at least say what sort of problems you are having, in #ubuntu
[20:14] <Md> no. you cannot remove it nor convert other packages
[20:15] <raphael___> some init scripts have already been converted to upstart jobs in karmic, and more should follow. Most linux distributions are transitioning as well
[20:16] <slackguru> Well, I guess I had better learn it then.
[20:38] <slackguru> Looks like it wasimplemented back in 6.10
[20:41] <raphael___> yes, but was running in sysv compatibility mode (and still does, except for the base system which has been converted to upstart jobs)
[20:45] <slackguru> I can see the need for it now, wanting external calls to the kernel at random times for the appearance of new hardware in a hot swap environment is very attractive.
[20:55] <slackguru> event driven
[22:14] <JanC> I'm sure removing upstart is an option, if you don't mind configuring your favourite "init" system by hand
[22:36] <ion> slackguru: “Perfectly good System-V init model”? That’s a false statement.  That’s one of the major reasons for Upstart’s very existence.
[22:40] <raphael___> "async is the new trend" ;-)
[22:47] <JanC> I think some dependency loops will require upstart-specific code in applications to get solved though...
[22:49] <ion> slackguru: http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/ “Why change it?”


[11:50] <nigelb> daker_: Nice job on the open graph :)
[12:24] <cjohnston> mornin
[12:24] <nigelb> ohai cjohnston
[12:24] <cjohnston> o/
[12:24] <nigelb> did you guys figure out the local_settings issue?
[12:24] <cjohnston> no
[12:25] <nigelb> I will try something out when I get back.
[12:26] <nigelb> Next few days I'm going into preparing for my talks.
[12:26] <cjohnston> !fail
[12:26] <ubot4> Factoid 'fail' not found
[12:42] <cjohnston> mornin daker_ :-
[12:42] <cjohnston> :-)
[13:27] <cjohnston> mornin johnoxton
[14:00] <johnoxton> cjohnston hello! How are you?
[14:01] <cjohnston> doin well.. thanks.. you?
[14:01] <johnoxton> pretty good thanks.. over my bout of flu
[14:01] <cjohnston> thats good
[14:03] <johnoxton> so, re: summit schedule. Rach has done a bit of work actually. I need to ask her to join this channel
[14:03] <cjohnston> thats awesome
[14:05] <johnoxton> and I'll send an email sooooon! about a proposed workflow etc.
[14:06] <cjohnston> ok.. cool
[14:53]  * cjohnston notes that nigelb bugged mhall119 and I for days because we werent doing his reviews fast enough.
[14:54]  * cjohnston also notes that he has had a review waiting for 5 days now
[14:54]  * nigelb notes his reviews were dependent on one another.
[14:54] <nigelb> Also, I'm writing a talk for a conf, packing, etc :D
[14:54] <cjohnston> that stuff isnt important
[14:54] <cjohnston> :-P
[14:54] <johnoxton> cjohnston and anyone else for that matter, rachelisking just joined us to help with summit
[14:54] <cjohnston> rachelisking: !!!!
[14:54] <cjohnston> mhall119: nigelb ^ thats you
[14:54] <rachelisking> hello!
[14:55] <nigelb> Hi rachelisking!
[14:55] <cjohnston> bbiab
[14:55] <mhall119> awesome, welcome rachelisking
[14:56]  * nigelb is the guy who was skyped in.
[14:57] <rachelisking> ah, hi all
[15:01] <rachelisking> about summit, do you guys think we've missed the moment to do a survey?
[15:01] <nigelb> We did do a survey post-UDS.
[15:02] <nigelb> Actually, let me ask for those results.
[15:02] <nigelb> What do you think needs to be surveyed further?
[15:02] <rachelisking> ah, that would be good
[15:02] <rachelisking> there was talk at the hacking session of doing a specific schedule one
[15:05] <rachelisking> oh, actually I never shared the quick notes I took during the session - they are here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tz0ZREgH6hFA1eJWi8j9aiifzQRSJw7yx7H_JQ-_FDk/edit
[15:06] <rachelisking> feel free to add / change anything those who were there!
[15:07] <nigelb> Oooh.
[15:07] <nigelb> Some of them are in line with what I've been thinking.
[15:07] <nigelb> Like, room name not being important.
[15:08] <nigelb> We could do better views for desktop that way, while keeping it same for the screens.
[15:09] <nigelb> Michelle says the survey closes this friday. So we should have feedback next week.
[15:09] <rachelisking> ok great, can you remind me what summit questions were in there again?
[15:10] <nigelb> I think one was general feedback and suggestions
[15:10] <nigelb> and one was for remote participants - what device they were using, desktop, phone otheres.
[15:12] <rachelisking> ah yeah, cool
[17:15] <gmargo> Problem with packages.ubuntu.com - who to report it to?
[17:15] <nigelb> gmargo: #canonical-sysadmin
[17:16] <gmargo> nigelb: thank you
[17:16] <nigelb> gmargo: wait, problem of what kind?
[17:19] <gmargo> nigelb: The oneirc pages do not have package descriptions.
[17:19] <gmargo> s/oneirc/oneiric/
[17:20] <gmargo> For instance, compare http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/lxdm to http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/lxdm
[17:20] <nigelb> gmargo: could you mention that in #ubuntu-devel please?
[17:20] <nigelb> Someone there probably knows what's wwrong.
[17:20] <gmargo> OK
[17:21] <nigelb> Sorry to point at different places
[17:21] <nigelb> I initally thought it was down or something like that :)
[17:21] <gmargo> join #ubuntu-devel
[17:21] <gmargo> (oops_


[01:31] <CIA-14> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4202 xubuntu/about-xubuntu/C/about-xubuntu.xml: Jim's patch
[07:25] <rob> anyone mind me messing around and sorting out the AMD64 related stuff on the wiki and pretty much writing a lot of it?
[07:26] <Burgundavia> heh
[07:28] <rob> well, I'll just go ahead and you can undo my changes if you hate them :)
[07:29] <nixternal> we already hate them :)
[07:29] <nixternal> rob: we don't mind at all, actually we are happy that you would do such a thing :)
[07:29] <rob> oi :P
[07:30] <rob> nice, since buying an AMD64 box I've had to nut out a lot of little things myself, so it would be useful to others if it were all in the one place
[07:30] <nixternal> I have been lucky with both of my amd64 boxes
[08:33] <rob> gotta pick up my kids, going to finish the pages soon
[11:06] <rob> well, I hope you guys a liking https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AMD64/FirefoxAndPlugins, the main AMD64 page I'll do tomorrow
[06:27] <CIA-14> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4203 ubuntu/switching/C/whyswitch.xml: Applying Dougie's patch to move line on security


[12:20] <bmm> Is there a way of depending on inotify (from the kernel) in a package?
[12:30] <Amaranth> bluefoxicy: ugh, they changed that
[12:30] <bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  damnit.
[12:31] <Amaranth> i think the problem is there is no package
[12:32] <AndyP> bmm: if i understand what you're asking correctly, i don't think you'd need to
[12:33] <Amaranth> bluefoxicy: that's really annoying, he filed it in both places
[12:33] <Amaranth> one right after another
[12:33] <bluefoxicy> that was my bug :P
[12:33] <Amaranth> oh, you're the wiseguy :P
[12:34] <Amaranth> i'm tempted to just leave it or reject the launchpad bug
[12:34] <bluefoxicy> Yeah, I do stuff like that once in a while :p
[12:34] <Amaranth> it needs a package to do the upstream thing sanely
[12:35] <bluefoxicy> (the GNOME bug is really the more appropriate one because they're actually in a position to create software to meet a purpose-- that's pretty much what GNOME does, look at their project list; the Ubuntu bug is more of a back-pointer so there's an existing bug to reference later if someone actually does it)
[12:36] <bmm> AndyP: you probably do, so I'm happy with that awnser. Thanks!
[12:45] <bmm> Where can I find a list of packages that need to be packaged? I would like to find a simple package I can take a look at, but search in the bugs against Ubuntu didn't give me a good list.
[12:49] <AndyP> bmm: you can search for needs-packaging bugs
[12:49] <bmm> AndyP: must have missed that form.. I'll look harder and come back if I fail...
[12:50] <AndyP> bmm: http://tinyurl.com/2mbskn
[12:51] <bmm> AndyP: thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for.
[01:23] <TheMuso> ScottK: Re thinkfinger, what copyright issues? I could read scrollback, but you can probably sum it up quicker than I can find the discussion.
[01:39] <nixternal> everyone is liking that thinkfinger...Red Hat showed it off in April with Fedora 7
[01:43] <TheMuso> nixternal: I think its eventually worth getting into the main distribution, as a lot of laptops have those readers.
[01:43] <TheMuso> c
[01:43] <TheMuso> ugh
[01:44] <AndyP> i'm glad mine doesn't have one, people might want to chop my fingers off
[01:44] <nixternal> haha
[01:44] <TheMuso> c
[01:45] <TheMuso> urgh
[01:47] <RAOF> Oh, huzzah.  New democracyplayer upstream, complete with name change
[01:47] <RAOF> Hi TheMuso, nixternal :)
[01:47] <TheMuso> Hey RAOF
[01:48] <TheMuso> RAOF: Oh fun.
[01:48] <TheMuso> SOunds like its a bit of a lost cause IMO.
[01:48] <AndyP> so they've gone with Miro then
[01:49] <RAOF> Time to email the Debian maintainer and offer my services.
[01:50] <StevenK> RAOF: And condolences? :-)
[01:51] <RAOF> :)
[01:56] <RAOF> So, it turns out that you can't quite install ubuntu from a usb stick
[01:57] <StevenK> Sure you can.   Linky?
[02:03] <joejaxx> does anyone know what happened to the nice-n-neat Patch system howto?
[02:05] <TheMuso> s/hae/have/
[02:09] <StevenK> RAOF: It seems I can't find the link I used. This is going back to Dapper, mind you.
[02:10] <StevenK> It could have been the d-i manual ...
[03:37] <anculz> http://rectum.antiville.fr/
[03:37] <anculz> http://rectum.antiville.fr/
[03:37] <TheMuso> !ops
[03:37] <ubotu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, or fbond
[03:42] <ryanakca> how does one file a sync request if the changelog isn't up on http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/a/ yet? manually?
[03:43] <RAOF> Is the package actually in the debian archives yet?
[03:44] <StevenK> One curses and screams, since packages.d.o sucks.
[03:44] <ryanakca> RAOF: according to http://packages.debian.org/unstable/editors/aoeui , yes. #debian-mentors on OFTC says it'll take some days.
[03:44] <StevenK> After waiting three days to file my last sync, I gave up and did it manually.
[03:45] <ryanakca> StevenK: *nods* will do, thanks :)
[03:46] <ryanakca> hmm.. and is there a naming standard for debdiffs?
[03:47] <AndyP> ryanakca: i tend to use .debdiff for descriptiveness but i've seen .patch and .diff used before
[03:52] <AndyP> i tend to use shorter names but that works too
[03:53] <ScottK> TheMuso: The short version is that the upstream tarball has no license in it, links to a dead GPL link, and only says GPL, not which version.
[03:53] <TheMuso> ScottK: There is a COPYING file.
[03:54] <ScottK> Ah.
[03:54] <TheMuso> WHich has the license.
[03:54] <ScottK> That's what I get for believing what I'm told and not looking for myself.
[03:54] <TheMuso> If you are talking about thinkfinger.
[03:54] <ScottK> Yes.
[03:54] <TheMuso> Yeah, theres a COPYING file.
[03:55] <TheMuso> Dead link?
[03:55] <ScottK> Dead link to some version of the GPL.
[03:55] <TheMuso> oh ok
[04:07] <ryanakca> can one mark their own sync requests to confirmed/wishlist? (ex, bug 126906 )
[04:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126906 in Ubuntu "[Sync Request] : aoeui (1.1.0-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126906
[04:09] <crimsun> ryanakca: if you're in QA, yes.
[04:09] <crimsun> or bugsquad
[04:13] <AndyP> hm, what generates /etc/hosts?
[04:14] <jdong> AndyP: Joe Sysadmin?
[04:14] <jdong> I'm sure it's a configfile in some base package too...
[04:16] <AndyP> ok, just trying to fix it being missing.. probably just my fault for installing gutsy in a nonstandard way
[04:16] <jdong> AndyP: ah; your best bet is probably to just take /etc/hosts from another computer
[04:16] <jdong> or... err.. write one
[04:16] <jdong> <IP_ADDRESS> localhost
[04:16] <jdong> ::1 ip6-localhost
[04:16] <jdong> and you're roughly done.
[04:16] <jdong> lol
[04:16] <AndyP> jdong: yeah, i grabbed my feisty one from another partition :)
[04:17] <AndyP> jdong: thanks
[04:17] <jdong> no prab
[04:46] <ajmitch> magic
[04:46] <ajmitch> and some ponies
[04:47] <RAOF> And, it seems, wiki.ubuntu.com :P
[04:48] <RAOF> Wow, that's a lot of LVM space it suggests
[04:48] <ajmitch> how much? 10GB?
[04:49] <RAOF> 5Gb + 4gb temp space for the snapshots, so yeah.  About that.
[04:52] <ajmitch> that's expected
[04:53] <RAOF> Not by me :)
[04:57] <joejaxx> what are the advantages of sbuild?
[04:58] <TheMuso> Logs get created without you explicitly asking for them.
[04:58] <TheMuso> for one...
[04:58] <RAOF> LVM snapshots
[04:58] <joejaxx> oh ok
[04:59] <joejaxx> i will look into that
[04:59] <TheMuso> RAOF: I suggest setting up some sort of apt cache for your sbuild/LVM setup, as if you have to build the same package several times, its a pain having to redownload dependencies.
[05:00] <RAOF> TheMuso: A fine idea.  How? :)
[05:00] <TheMuso> Well since I use sbuild/LVM on several machines, I modified the /etc/schroot/setup.d/10mount to mount an NFS shared apt cache directory.
[05:01] <TheMuso> So basically bind mount/network mount a directory into the snapshot, using that script to help you do it.
[05:01] <RAOF> (13.05.59|   TheMuso)) So basically bind mount/network mount a directory into the snapshot, using that script to help you do it.
[05:01] <RAOF> Argh, sorry
[05:01] <TheMuso> heh
[05:02] <TheMuso> I also had to do something similar to expose my work directories, as they are also NFS shared accross several mahines.
[05:02] <TheMuso> machines
[05:02] <RAOF> Aaah.
[05:02] <RAOF> I'll probably just set up a buildd type box, and send everything there.
[05:03] <RAOF> Eventually :)
[05:03] <TheMuso> Well I like my setup, since I am able to simultaneously build the same package on i386/powerpc for example.
[05:03] <Toadstool> omg! xen in mainline linux \o/
[05:03] <Toadstool> awesome
[05:03] <Toadstool> hi everybody
[05:05] <TheMuso> Hey Toadstool
[05:05] <Toadstool> hi TheMuso
[05:07] <AndyP> sigh, guess that pain in my wrist means it's bedtime, good night folks
[05:08] <RAOF> TheMuso: Do you have a PPC box lying around?
[05:08] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yes.
[05:08] <TheMuso> Two in fact.
[05:08] <RAOF> TheMuso: Cool.
[05:09] <TheMuso> RAOF: Do you need anything tested/built?
[05:15] <RAOF> TheMuso: No, not really.  It's just cool
[05:15] <TheMuso> Well its an unsupported arch now anyway.
[05:16] <TheMuso> But I am fond of it.
[06:46] <jml> Hobbsee: pong
[06:46] <Hobbsee> jml: had any thoughts about where we should all meet up tomorrow night?
[06:46] <jml> No, not really.
[06:47] <Hobbsee> darn.
[06:47] <jml> I'm a fan of Red Oak in the CBD
[06:47] <Hobbsee> what is it?  bar?
[06:47] <jml> restaurant / microbrewery :)
[06:47] <Hobbsee> ahhh...
[06:47] <jml> probably a little too much
[06:48] <jml> uhhh...
[06:49] <jml> so, I don't live in this city. you guys should be the ones with ideas.
[06:49] <Hobbsee> jml: oh?  i thought you did..
[06:49] <TheMuso> haha
[06:49] <jml> nah, from Hobart.
[06:49] <TheMuso> As long as its close to a train station.
[06:51] <TheMuso> I know there are some nice places at Burwood, but I don't know what people might want, and I'm not sure its central enough for everybody.
[06:51] <Hobbsee> StevenK: and people might know
[06:52] <RAOF> That's probably a bit far for Hobbsee?
[06:52] <StevenK> I work in Burwood, so it works for me. :-)
[06:52] <RAOF> I don't really know anything in the city that isn't expensive :)
[06:52] <StevenK> Tomorrow is fine, too.
[06:52] <Hobbsee> RAOF: i'ts further for spiv
[06:52] <Hobbsee> burwood works.  *shrugs*
[06:53] <RAOF> It does have the advantage of being on the trainlines
[06:53] <Hobbsee> trainlines are good
[06:53] <StevenK> Burwood has hit saturation point for cafes and such, but there is a very nice Italian place not far from the station, and a nice pizza shop further done.
[06:53] <StevenK> If people are driving, they can park at my $WORK
[06:53] <StevenK> s/done/down/
[06:54] <StevenK> lifeless: ping, ^
[06:54] <Hobbsee> +1
[06:54] <Hobbsee> what time are we meeting, then?
[06:55] <StevenK> It's reasonable in times of price, to.
[06:55] <RAOF> Almost as much as French, but that tends to be expensive.  Outside of Hobart :)
[06:55] <StevenK> s/ro/too/
[06:55] <ScottK> This sort of thing was much easier to schedule for Baltimore, Maryland.  I just drove over to crimsun's apartment and picked him up.
[06:55] <TheMuso> haha
[06:55] <RAOF> 6 ish?
[06:55] <StevenK> Guys, I'm happy to book a table at the resturant, too.
[06:55] <jml> I'd like to move up here though.
[06:55] <jml> RAOF: ??!?
[06:55] <Hobbsee> clearly it wont be too late, as TheMuso needs to be able to get a train back, etc
[06:56] <Hobbsee> StevenK: we probably want to find numbers first
[06:56] <StevenK> 6 ish might be a little early.
[06:56] <jml> RAOF: I'll have to leave at noon or something to get there at 6
[06:56] <StevenK> jml: Where are you coming from? Adelaide? :_P
[06:56] <StevenK> s/_/-/
[06:56] <jml> StevenK: hornsby
[06:56] <Hobbsee> jml: grab a lift with spiv, maybe
[06:57] <TheMuso> 6:30/7 maybe
[06:57] <StevenK> No way. Hornsby station -> Strathfield station is like an hour
[06:57] <Hobbsee> jml: and train, not drive.
[06:57] <TheMuso> StevenK: aye
[06:57] <lifeless> StevenK: wassup?
[06:57] <TheMuso> I'm even happy to meat up with jml and travel to burwood if we can sort that out.
[06:57] <Hobbsee> lifeless: your presence is REQUIRED.
[06:57] <TheMuso> jml: meet at strathfield
[06:57] <jml> StevenK: right, but 6 is still too early. I basically finish work then.
[06:58] <StevenK> jml: Ah.
[06:58] <lifeless> whats up?
[06:59] <lifeless> REQUIRED for what I mean..
[06:59] <Hobbsee> lifeless: do you want to meet with some of the ubuntu sydney people tomorrow night?
[06:59] <StevenK> lifeless: Dinner with jml, Hobbsee, RAOF, TheMuso, me and probably a few others in Burwood tomorrow night.
[06:59] <RAOF> For food!
[06:59] <ajmitch> sounds like fun
[06:59] <Hobbsee> lifeless: for beer :P
[06:59] <lifeless> how about eastwood, some rocking indian there
[07:00] <TheMuso> I can do esatwood.
[07:00] <TheMuso> eastwood even
[07:00] <lifeless> burwood is, and I mean *no* offense, a hole.
[07:00] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yay!
[07:00] <StevenK> lifeless: Watch it, I'm in Burwood right now.
[07:00] <ajmitch> I'll have to see if I can make it to sydney
[07:00] <lifeless> StevenK: so look out a window, tell me I'm wrong.
[07:00] <StevenK> You're wrong.
[07:01] <lifeless> haha
[07:01] <lifeless> StevenK: what restraunt did you have in mind then ?
[07:01] <StevenK> I can't spell it. :-P
[07:01] <jml> I've been to Burwood once or twice
[07:02] <jml> While I wouldn't call it a hole...
[07:03] <lifeless> we had commitee meetings there for a year; and I've done contracts too.
[07:05] <StevenK> Found it.
[07:05] <StevenK> Acarbonara
[07:05] <RAOF> Ooooh.  Suggestive :)
[07:05] <Hobbsee> :)
[07:06] <StevenK> RAOF: Hrm?
[07:06] <lifeless> italian ?
[07:06] <RAOF> A Carbonara
[07:06] <StevenK> lifeless: Yup
[07:06] <lifeless> :(
[07:06] <RAOF> Is a delicious bacon, cream, and egg sauce
[07:07] <RAOF> lifeless: Not a fan of Italian
[07:08] <lifeless> theres about 3 italian dishes I can eat
[07:08] <TheMuso> I was wondering about that actually.
[07:08] <TheMuso> Well, IMO we consider Eastwood, and Indian.
[07:08] <RAOF> lifeless: Alergies?  They suck.
[07:08] <lifeless> and the carb load isn't great either; I've just done 10 days away from home so am already a) bloated b) tired of pizza-no cheese and bolognese
[07:08] <RAOF> Indian WorksForMe
[07:09] <ScottK> !worksforme | RAOF
[07:09] <ubotu> RAOF: Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability.
[07:09] <ScottK> ;-)
[07:09] <ScottK> Sorry RAOF.  Couldn't resist.
[07:10] <StevenK> I can do Indian, I just prefer Italian.
[07:10] <lifeless> thing I like about indian is that there is a reasonable range of non-cream curries
[07:10] <StevenK> Eastwood to Burwood is a little interesting via car, too.
[07:10] <lifeless> asian is definately the easiest for me thougj
[07:11] <lifeless> http://www.eatability.com.au/au/sydney/ajs_indian_restaurantt.htm is the one I was thinking of
[07:11] <RAOF> I'd prefer not asian, but I'm easy
[07:11] <elkbuntu> lifeless, how you survive all the travelling especially with crappy airline food, i'll never know
[07:11] <lifeless> elkbuntu: NLML meal code, kthnxbye
[07:11] <elkbuntu> oh, and lets not forget the petrified chicken at sydney airport, which would nearly kill anyone :
[07:12] <lifeless> that was lethal
[07:12] <TheMuso> heh
[07:12] <elkbuntu> if in doubt, sweet and sour
[07:12] <elkbuntu> i know these things. i worked in a chinese takeaway place
[07:12] <TheMuso> lifeless: I am assuming its near the station as well.
[07:12] <StevenK> lifeless: What's NLML?
[07:13] <lifeless> non-lactose-meal
[07:13] <StevenK> Ah, I was thinking so, just wasn't sure.
[07:13] <StevenK> TheMuso: Doesn't look like it.
[07:14] <lifeless> TheMuso: its not *that* close to a train. 3 blocks. But I can bring the car down and give you a lift to from the station
[07:14] <StevenK> TheMuso: 2.3km walk, looks like
[07:15] <TheMuso> Ok, well if we decide on that, we can sort something out.
[07:16] <TheMuso> Yet, thats not that far to walk IMO, but I am used to walking.
[07:16] <RAOF> That'd be no trouble for me, either
[07:17] <RAOF> We'd presumably meet at the station, then?
[07:17] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah.
[07:17] <TheMuso> As I don't know where I'm going.
[07:17] <lifeless> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=balaclava+rd,+eastwood,+nsw&daddr=Ethel+St+%40-33.790190,+151.082760&mra=cc&sll=-33.790419,151.093769&sspn=0.026179,0.064373&ie=UTF8&z=14&om=1
[07:19] <RAOF> jml: You got google maps on your mobile yet? ;)
[07:19] <jml> RAOF: no
[07:20] <TheMuso> heh
[07:21] <RAOF> StevenK: You should.  Fabulously useful :)
[07:22] <StevenK> Hrm.
[07:22] <StevenK> I think it just killed the phone's browser.
[07:22] <TheMuso> heh
[07:24] <TheMuso> So do we have a consensus?
[07:25] <lifeless> http://www.eatability.com.au/au/sydney/ajs_indian_restaurantt.htm at what time?
[07:26] <RAOF> So, indian, at Eastwood, at 7?
[07:26] <StevenK> Sounds okay
[07:26] <TheMuso> Yep, fine by me. SHould we book?
[07:27] <RAOF> Or maybe meet at the station at 6:30, or something.
[07:27] <RAOF> Yeah, booking seems good.
[07:27] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah, 6:30 meet at station for those training it sounds like a good idea.
[07:28] <Hobbsee> lifeless: any idea if there's parking around the station, etc, at that time?
[07:28] <ScottK> Well since everything I look at to see if I should ask for a sync isn't up on p.d.o yet and LP's about to take a long nap anyway...
[07:28] <ScottK> Good night all.  I'm going to bed.
[07:28] <TheMuso> Night ScottK.
[07:28] <Hobbsee> night ScottK
[07:28] <RAOF> night ScottK
[07:28] <lifeless> should be some yes
[07:29] <StevenK> If I remember correctly, parking in Eastwood is fairly dreadful.
[07:29] <StevenK> My mother used to work at Commonwealth Bank, Eastwood.
[07:29] <lifeless> theres a huge parking lot near the station
[07:30] <StevenK> Isn't that paid parking, though?
[07:30] <TheMuso> Ok, if coming from the city, which side of the station does one exit from?
[07:30] <lifeless> just NW of it
[07:30] <lifeless> exit on the East side of the station
[07:30] <TheMuso> lifeless: Ok.
[07:30] <lifeless> (not that you get a choice IIRC)
[07:30] <lifeless> but if you do - east side, up ethel street, down blaxland and right onto balaclava
[07:31] <lifeless> walk along balaclava to the strataiunt
[07:31] <lifeless> restaraunt. meg.
[07:31] <lifeless> *meh*
[07:31] <TheMuso> haha
[07:31] <lifeless> TheMuso: yes we should book. Numbers ?
[07:31] <lifeless> 1
[07:31] <TheMuso> 2
[07:32] <lifeless> (StevenK) 3
[07:32] <TheMuso> (Hobbsee) 4
[07:32] <RAOF> 5
[07:32] <RAOF> (jml) 6
[07:32] <Hobbsee> (possibly spiv)
[07:32] <lifeless> spiv is unlikely AIUI
[07:32] <Hobbsee> he was interested for slug at least, no idae on this week
[07:32] <Hobbsee> ahh okay
[07:33] <lifeless> I'll book for 6
[07:33] <RAOF> Awesome
[07:33] <Hobbsee> great :)
[07:34] <TheMuso> Sweet.
[07:35] <Hobbsee> possibly more useful for when *i* get lost, and need to call one of you.  *g*
[07:36] <lifeless> Hobbsee:  you have mine..
[07:37] <Hobbsee> lifeless: true
[07:38] <dholbach> good morning
[07:38] <Burgundavia> hey dholbach
[07:38] <dholbach> hiya Burgundavia
[07:39] <Hobbsee> hey dholbach, Burgundavia
[07:39] <dholbach> hey Hobbsee
[07:39] <TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
[07:39] <Hobbsee> hi beuno
[07:39] <RAOF> jml: You in on this?
[07:39] <beuno> hey Hobbsee, how are you doing this fine evening?
[07:40] <jml> RAOF: huh, what?
[07:40] <dholbach> hey TheMuso
[07:40] <jml> IRC on gaim is confusing
[07:40] <Hobbsee> beuno: good.  i'm thinking that i should write the release email and such
[07:40] <jml> too many colours
[07:40] <RAOF> jml: Heh.  Meeting at Eastwood station at 6:30
[07:41] <jml> ok
[07:41] <beuno> Hobbsee: I just got back from my 12 hour flight, I can work on the Wiki tomorrow.  Does that work?
[07:41] <Hobbsee> beuno: define "tomorrow"
[07:42] <Hobbsee> beuno: i want to release in ~7 hours, give or take
[07:42] <Hobbsee> tomorrow is an elusive term
[07:43] <beuno> Hobbsee: I haven't slept in 48hs, so I guess tomorrow is closer to 12 hours
[07:43] <beuno> maybe 16
[07:43] <Hobbsee> beuno: right
[07:43] <beuno> depends on how much work is waiting for me at the office
[07:43] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: can you help out?
[07:44] <Burgundavia> the release notes?
[07:44] <Burgundavia> in about an hour, yep
[07:44] <Hobbsee> yes
[07:44] <Hobbsee> great :)
[08:02] <elkbuntu> grrrr... if I ever find out who keeps stealing my CD/DVD markers....
[08:02] <nixternal> forget that, I want the person who decided to take down the auth db for the wiki
[08:03] <elkbuntu> nixternal, about 40 mins ago: <mthaddon> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a code update. Estimated downtime is approx 45mins.
[08:04] <nixternal> where at?
[08:04] <Burgundavia> canonical-sysadmin
[08:04] <nixternal> horseshit!
[08:05] <StevenK> nixternal: And -devel
[08:06] <ajmitch> well it should be the monthly rollout, I think
[08:06] <StevenK> It is. But that doesn't tell me anything about the build number itself.
[08:06] <nixternal> ya, I love how they do it prior to release
[08:06] <ajmitch> though the build number is meaningless
[08:11] <Burgundavia> ok, I having a total brainfreeze as to what features the Ubuntu Tribe3 page should feature
[08:13] <StevenK> "Lots of breakage. Lots of bugs. Oh, and bug fixes."
[08:13] <StevenK> Wait, don't put that. :-P
[08:13] <Burgundavia> there are good features to talk about, I am just stuck as to what they are
[08:13] <Burgundavia> compiz fusion I guess
[08:14] <StevenK> New GNOME?
[08:14] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:14] <Burgundavia> which delivered no new programs
[08:14] <StevenK> But shiny new version number
[08:15] <Burgundavia> I need something for a screenshot
[08:15] <RAOF> Is gnome-power-manager profiles new?
[08:16] <Burgundavia> hm, good thought
[08:16] <RAOF> That's cool, and will be unbroken in 2.19.6 :)
[08:16] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: that's what i had trouble with too
[08:16] <Burgundavia> new appearance caplet?
[08:17] <RAOF> Yeah, that's cool
[08:17] <Burgundavia> or was that there in Tribe2?
[08:17] <RAOF> I don't *think* so.
[08:17] <Burgundavia> we can talk about it
[08:18] <Burgundavia> ebox
[08:29] <RAOF> Gah!  What part of autotools creates the .deps/*.Plo files, and how can I unbreak it?
[08:31] <StevenK> A magical part ...
[08:32] <RAOF> Ah, it seems that they're generated by gcc -M, apparently.
[08:32] <Burgundavia> think the bit about Jamendo and Magnatune is worth mentioning?
[08:32] <Burgundavia> RB now supports Magnatune gift cards
[08:33] <RAOF> Gapless Rhythmbox backend?
[08:33] <RAOF> Was that there in Tribe2?
[08:33] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:34] <Burgundavia> but we can cheat, as it was not mentioned in the tribe2 notes
[08:36] <RAOF> Heh
[08:39] <Burgundavia> by power profiles, are you referring to the new battery profilling code?
[08:40] <Burgundavia> RAOF: ^
[08:42] <RAOF> Burgundavia: Yes
[08:42] <Burgundavia> right, that is what I thought
[08:42] <RAOF> Which is cool, except that it's broken
[08:42] <Burgundavia> now look at my pitiful battery life
[08:42] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe3?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=Power+History.png
[08:43] <Burgundavia> that is not gpm lying
[08:43] <RAOF> Just suspend your laptop a couple of times.  That'll get bump the profile up a bit.
[08:44] <Burgundavia> and then NM hangs on resume
[08:44] <Burgundavia> seriously, even if I turn gpm off, I get about 40 minutes
[08:44] <lifeless> ok, we're confirmed for 6 people.
[08:44] <lifeless> they are now fully booked
[08:44] <TheMuso> lifeless: Ok thanks
[08:44] <RAOF> Ah, awkward.  That'd be why you haven't seen the huge "20 hours remaining" annoyance.
[08:44] <RAOF> lifeless: Excellent.
[08:44] <Burgundavia> if anything, gpm was too conservative with me
[08:44] <lifeless> always the sign of a good restaraunt :)
[08:45] <Burgundavia> at 90% it would say "15 minutes remaining"
[08:45] <Hobbsee> lifeless: great :)
[08:45] <Burgundavia> lifeless: what are you celebrating?
[08:45] <lifeless> Ubuntu
[08:45] <RAOF> jml being up in Sydney, stuff :)
[08:45] <TheMuso> Burgundavia: Some Sydney Ubuntu contributers are getting together to have dinner tomorrow night
[08:45] <Burgundavia> cool
[08:48] <RAOF> Gah!      So, I can make Xgl's "make distclean" work by renaming .deps/solaris-$(SOLARIS_INOUT_ARCH).Plo to .deps/solaris-.Plo.  The question now is: why isn't that $(foo) being expanded in the first place, and how do I fix it.
[09:01] <elmargol> Is there an api for suggesting codec packages?
[09:02] <RAOF> There was libgimmie.  I'm not sure it that's still relevant
[09:07] <siretart> it says 'MOTU Media'
[09:20] <StevenK> siretart: I think it's been that way for a while.
[09:23] <RAOF> Heh.
[09:28] <jussi01> good morning all!
[09:29] <pygi> good morning
[09:30] <jussi01> morning pygi
[09:31] <Hobbsee> *** all sydney people, check the traffic reports before you go home ***
[09:32] <jussi01> lol, you poor sydneysiders...
[09:32] <jussi01> Hobbsee: whats happening there?
[09:32] <Hobbsee> jussi01: i hear talk about victoria road being blocked on the radio, which will stop a lot of people from getting home
[09:33] <jussi01> ouch.
[09:34] <Hobbsee> as in, it will clog other roads, which will lead to fun.
[09:34] <jussi01> yes, lot of fun... :P
[09:35] <StevenK> I hate how driving home is a lot like swimming upstream against the current.
[09:51] <porthose> Hello MOTU's:  Would you pleas comment/first advocate Ampache thank you http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6086
[10:06] <soren> porthose: Do you plan on having more than one version of ampache installable at the same time?
[10:07] <soren> porthose: Er... Never mind.
[10:07] <soren> porthose: I was looking in the wrong place.
[10:08] <porthose> soren: :)
[10:09] <soren> porthose: What was it the Debian guys didn't like?
[10:09] <porthose> I had a few lintian problems that I have fixed
[10:09] <soren> porthose: Ok.
[10:11] <soren> porthose: Does ampache really directly require apache2-mpm-prefork?
[10:12] <porthose> soren: yes If I remember correctly there was a threading issue with other version of apache
[10:13] <soren> porthose: Ok. Strange, but ok :)
[10:14] <soren> porthose: ampache.config asks about ampache/webserver_type, but ampache.templates has no info about that?
[10:16] <porthose> ah my bad I changed that to boolean, will need to fix
[10:17] <soren> porthose: While you're at it, could you remove the stuff about "this is a sample rules files" blah at the top of debian/rules?
[10:18] <porthose> soren:  np
[10:18] <porthose> ***porthose making list
[10:19] <soren> porthose: Heh.. It's not an error per se, but the way you build you .deb is a bit... unorthodox :)
[10:20] <soren> porthose: Usually, the upstream makefile is called upon to install everything into a temporary diretory (typically debian/packagename or debian/tmp). That tree (or a subset of it) is then put into the .deb.
[10:21] <soren> porthose: You're just skipping the in-between stuff.
[10:21] <soren> porthose: Ie. yanking it directly from upstream and shoving it into the .deb.
[10:22] <soren> porthose: But, as I said, it's not really an error. It's just.. unorthodox :)
[10:22] <porthose> soren:  suggestions?
[10:23] <porthose> soren:  want to get it right this time
[10:24] <soren> porthose: If you wanted to do it the orthodox way, you'd call $(MAKE) in the install target of debian/rules, and change your ampache.install to refer to debian/tmp or debian/ampache (whereever you chose to install it).
[10:25] <porthose> soren: k
[10:29] <porthose> soren: one of the other MOTU's suggested that I create ampache.install and let dh_install handle it.  Will change it.
[10:31] <soren> porthose: You already have a ampache.install ?
[10:32] <porthose> soren: ok understand now it's 3:30am
[10:34] <bmm> Hi everybody. I've added a watch file for a launchpad page (https) and uscan doesn't support it. Should I just remove it or keep it there for when uscan will support it?
[10:34] <soren> porthose: :)
[10:34] <bmm> (oh, the package is http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6089 )
[10:37] <soren> bmm: Hmmm. https support was added to uscan in devscripts version 2.10.6.
[10:37] <soren> bmm: So keep it.
[10:38] <soren> bmm: uscan will support it soon.
[10:38] <bmm> soren: oh?? Then I must have an old version: 2.10.5ubuntu2
[10:38] <bmm> I'll add that info to the revu page, thanks!
[10:40] <soren> bmm: It's not in Ubuntu just yet.
[10:41] <soren> bmm: Hence "soon". :)
[10:41] <bmm> soren: I understand.
[10:44] <NeoChapay> hi 2 all i create deb package of Kde4-svn071407 ho can me say how i can add him for devel repos !?
[10:45] <bmm> NeoChapay: after creating the source package you can upload that to revu with dput. I'll look up the tutorial for you...
[10:46] <bmm> NeoChapay: just follow http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/
[10:47] <porthose> NeoChapay: here is a good one on REVU https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU?action=show&redirect=REVU
[10:48] <NeoChapay> ok
[11:02] <porthose> soren: anything else? :)
[11:15] <soren> porthose: Not right now, no :)
[11:15] <bmm> Robocode is distributed as a Java program in both compiled java and source. Should I package the source or the bytecode?
[11:16] <porthose> sore: k thank  you very much for the review :) night
[11:16] <porthose> s/sore/soren
[11:25] <geser> bmm: the source as that's the prefered format for modifications
[11:26] <bmm> geser: thanks
[11:26] <geser> that way you're also sure that bytecode and source match
[11:41] <elkbuntu> ubuntu i386 20070718.1 does not seem to like my desktop :(
[01:23] <geser> zul_: Hi, is it ok if I grab the fantasdic merge and fix bug #124648?
[01:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124648 in fantasdic "fantasdic needs to use Gtk::StatusIcon from ruby-gnome2, or not at all" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124648
[01:29] <zul_> geser: be my guest
[01:43] <DarkSun88> Hi
[01:49] <StevenK> Hrm. ENOPERSIA
[01:56] <munckfish> Hi I've just noticed that 'jetty' is in multiverse, I can download the source using apt but cannot install the binary, why would this be?
[01:57] <geser> error message?
[01:57] <StevenK> Oh geeeeeeeeez.
[01:57] <munckfish> enyc: Couldn't find package jetty
[01:58] <munckfish> oops
[01:58] <munckfish> that should have been "E: Couldn't find package jetty"
[01:58] <geser> have you a deb line for multiverse or only a deb-src line for it?
[01:59] <munckfish> geser: I have both deb and deb-src
[01:59] <munckfish> I notice that it's arch is 'all' except there is no 'all' in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/multiverse/
[01:59] <munckfish> geser: is it likely the package did not build ok for Feisty?
[02:00] <StevenK> munckfish: Arch: 'all' gets dragged into each binary-*/Packages.gz
[02:00] <munckfish> ok
[02:00] <geser> jetty is a FTBFS
[02:01] <munckfish> jetty isn't in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/multiverse/binary-i386/Packages.gz
[02:01] <munckfish> sorry what's a FTBFS?
[02:01] <StevenK> Fails To Build From Source
[02:01] <munckfish> aha
[02:01] <StevenK> And that's the reason, it failed to build.
[02:01] <munckfish> so it needs love and attention
[02:02] <munckfish> thx
[02:02] <geser> yes
[02:02] <StevenK> It looks a give-back, I'll handle it.
[02:03] <StevenK> munckfish: It won't get fixed in Feisty, unfortunately.
[02:03] <munckfish> ok, if I had time to fix it, would it get into Gutsy do you think?
[02:04] <StevenK> I'm looking at it now, but if one of can, certainly.
[02:04] <munckfish> I'm trying to understand how the motu team treats multiverse
[02:05] <munckfish> ok for a start it's build-deb are referring to the wrong names for the sun java packages
[02:05] <munckfish> s/build-deb/build-deps/
[02:05] <StevenK> I wonder if it's fixed in Debian
[02:06] <StevenK> munckfish: If you can prepare a debdiff for this issue, I'm happy to look over it and upload it.
[02:06] <munckfish> StevenK: ok I'll see what I can do
[02:07] <munckfish> what's the best way to inform you when it's ready (I'm new to this malarky) lp bug or mailing list?
[02:07] <geser> LP bug
[02:07] <StevenK> Bug in Launchpad, filed against jetty
[02:08] <StevenK> munckfish: Then you can either drop the bug number in here and say there's a debdiff, or subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
[02:08] <StevenK> munckfish: Either way, that should get someone looking at it.
[02:08] <munckfish> ok thx I'll have a go
[02:09] <StevenK> munckfish: Also, you could look at setting up a Gutsy pbuilder, and trying a test build.
[02:09] <geser> munckfish: which java compiler do you want to use?
[02:09] <munckfish> ok I have gutsy in vmware so that's fine
[02:10] <geser> iirc you can't use sun-java-5 or sun-java-6 as they ask a question during installation
[02:10] <munckfish> geser: aha I see
[02:10] <munckfish> maybe there's another reason why it's stuck
[02:11] <StevenK> Oooh, I bet that's the reason for the preinst failing with exit status 10, which sounds like debconfage
[02:11] <geser> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/7154134/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.jetty_5.1.10-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is the last build log
[02:12] <geser> has j2{re,sdk}1.4 also this license question?
[02:12] <StevenK> Don't they download from the net or something?
[02:13] <munckfish> StevenK: what do you mean?
[02:13] <munckfish> I wasn't aware the the jdk downloaded certainly the docs and source need to be downloaded and placed for the installers to find em
[02:14] <StevenK> munckfish: Reading the build log shows that j2re1.4 and j2sdk1.4 failed to set up, due to their preinst scripts failing with an exit status 10. That sounds like a debconf problem, which might be that the preinst doesn't want to be called with DEBCONF_FRONTEND="noninteractive"
[02:15] <geser> StevenK: from the deb size for them, I'd say j2{re,sdk}1.4 doesn't download
[02:16] <munckfish> j2sdk1.4 is the Blackdown implementation
[02:16] <munckfish> I'm not sure what the licence is on that
[02:16] <geser> looking at the preinst in the diff.gz it exits with 10 when the license goes get accepted
[02:16] <munckfish> ok at the end of the package description it says "NOTE: You must accept Sun's EULA prior to successfully installing"
[02:18] <munckfish> I think judging by the debian bug page this package isn't being very actively maintained, unanswered bugs and new upstream version
[02:18] <munckfish> I'm referring to the jetty package
[02:18] <munckfish> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=423199
[02:18] <ubotu> Debian bug 423199 in jetty "jetty: should this package be orphaned?" [Serious,Open]
[02:23] <elmargol> tribe 2 (desktop) doesn't work on qemu?
[02:26] <StevenK> geser: The first Depends is kaffe
[02:26] <munckfish> StevenK, geser: you guys dropped out there for a sec? I think gcj is Java 1.4 compatible and it require me to accept a licence
[02:26] <munckfish> I mean didn't require me to accept a licence when I just installed it then
[02:28] <pygi> hey Hobbsee :)
[02:29] <xxxxx1> good morning all
[02:30] <Hobbsee> heya pygi!
[02:30] <geser> Hi Hobbsee
[02:31] <Hobbsee> hiya
[02:32] <geser> StevenK: but not in Build-Depends-Indep: j2sdk1.3 | j2sdk1.4 | j2sdk1.5 | kaffe (>= 2:1.1.5-5)
[02:32] <ScottK> Good (evening I guess) Hobbsee.
[02:32] <Hobbsee> hiya ScottK
[02:32] <Hobbsee> yeah, it's evening
[02:34] <geser> ScottK: TZ="Australia/Sydney" date
[02:35] <ScottK> Yes, but it's much less work to do it in my head and get it wrong.
[02:37] <geser> :)
[02:39] <xxxxx1> hello Hobbsee
[02:39] <Hobbsee> hiya
[02:40] <munckfish> geser, StevenK: I'm trying to replace those jdk versions with java-gcj-compat-dev this apparently brings in a java compatible interface for gcj
[02:41] <ScottK> Hooray!
[02:41] <munckfish> except, on trying to build the source package I'm getting a warning that the JAVA_HOME var isn't set
[02:53] <bmm> Hi. If upstream doesn't have a .desktop file, how do you add a menu entry (and specifically where)?
[02:56] <Kmos> bmm: create debian/menu
[02:56] <Kmos> and
[02:56] <Kmos> example:
[02:56] <Kmos> ?package(gqview):needs="X11" section="Apps/Viewers"\ title="GQview" command="/usr/bin/gqview"\ icon="/usr/share/pixmaps/gqview.xpm"\ longtitle="The GQview image viewer"
[02:56] <Kmos> bbl
[02:59] <bmm> Kmos: I've read that ubuntu doesn't use the debian menu ( file:///usr/share/packaging-guide/html/C/appendix-examples.html ) , so It would have to do more and my first test of a package with the "menu" didn't seem to work.
[03:07] <xxxxx1> ol fernando
[03:08] <fernando> xxxxx1, hi
[03:15] <munckfish> quick newbie question - if I am updating a package that has come from debian, and I need to update some of the debian/* files other than changelog do I need to store these modifications in a patch under debian/patches/*?
[03:16] <broonie> No. debian/patches is for changes to upstream source. Some things you couldn't modify via debian/patches anyway.
[03:16] <broonie> (upstream == upstream for Debian in this case)
[03:18] <munckfish> broonie: thx.
[03:20] <hroo772> so i found a package that needs updating, but it isn't updated in debian unstable, would we still update ourselves?
[03:37] <geser> hroo772: if there is a good reason and someone prepares an updated package, it could be done
[03:38] <hroo772> geser: well i noticed it for openarena the game, which released a new version on july 6th
[03:41] <geser> have to asked the Debian maintainers about an update?
[03:41] <hroo772> should i submit a 'wishlist' bug to have it updated? see if that gets anything
[03:45] <broonie> hroo772: A wishlist bug is the usual method, yes.
[03:46] <hroo772> cool cool, well ill go do that
[04:12] <coNP> StevenK: sorry for bugging you again
[04:12] <StevenK> You haven't even started. :-)
[04:12] <coNP> can you please tell me if there are any news about openbox 3.4 in debian / ubuntu now?
[04:15] <StevenK> Not that I've heard.
[04:16] <coNP> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5874 seems to be untouched
[04:23] <bmm> Any one who knows ;-): I'm having trouble adding a menu entry to my package. Currently I've got a debian/packagename.menu and dh_installmenu and the menu file is added to the pakage. However the ubuntu packaging guide tells me it won't work and it doesn't. What will work?
[04:23] <bmm> (I've looked at ogle as an example, but can't find anything really different with my own package and what ogle contains.
[04:25] <bmm> (a new version of my package, inotifyme, will appear below http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6089 within the next 15mins)
[04:27] <norsetto> New package available for review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6099 Your help is much appreciated
[04:28] <norsetto> dholbach: hi Daniel, don't get sunburned the next few weeks.....
[04:29] <geser> norsetto: don't delete files in ~
[04:29] <norsetto> its a conf file which needs to be purged
[04:29] <geser> why?
[04:30] <geser> and it only works for the user doing the purge
[04:30] <norsetto> yes, thats the point
[04:30] <geser> other users using bless have still ~/.config/bless
[04:30] <norsetto> btw, I asked upstream if this is configurable or hardcoded
[04:30] <dholbach> norsetto: I'll try not to :)
[04:31] <norsetto> geser: for instance, I modified few things and purged bless (at that time I still had not added the rm in postrm)
[04:32] <norsetto> geser: I then reinstalled bless and got warnings becuase it was not finding the right files, that becuase it was using the old configuration files
[04:32] <geser> norsetto: this also removes the config files for a shared ~ (like also used in a chroot)
[04:33] <geser> this only works for the admin but not for the other users, which still may have the old config files if bless was purged and installed later again
[04:33] <norsetto> geser: would you suggest anything else? I'd rather not leave an old unused configuration especially if the user wanted explicitely to get rid of it with a purge
[04:34] <norsetto> geser: btw, I really appreciate your advice
[04:35] <geser> other packages still leave files behind in ~, so that's normal
[04:35] <geser> and as said this only works for a single-user system
[04:35] <geser> on a multi-user system other users still have a ~/.config/bless file
[04:36] <norsetto> geser: anything else I can do? Use conffiles perhaps?
[04:36] <geser> that won't work
[04:36] <geser> I've also bind-mounted my ~ into my gutsy chroot I use for package building
[04:37] <norsetto> geser: so, all in all to leave the stuff behind is the lesser evil
[04:37] <geser> it would be bad if bless purge my config because I purged the package from my chroot but still have it installed in my normal system
[04:37] <geser> yes, unfortunately
[04:38] <norsetto> geser: ok thanks, as I said, much appreciated
[04:40] <geser> is there a reason why you don't use dh_scrollkeeper to generate the scrollkeeper snippet in postinst?
[04:41] <norsetto> geser: not really, can change to that if it makes it more readable
[04:42] <geser> it's less error-prone
[04:43] <geser> the dh_scrollkepper snippets do nearly the same as what you already have in postinst/postrm but they also check how the script got called
[04:43] <norsetto> geser: so I just change the whole snippet (if ...fi) with dh_scrollkeeper right? Shouldn't I do that for postrm as well?
[04:44] <geser> you call in debian/rules dh_scrollkeeper (check before if cdbs doesn't already do it for you) and it will place the right code into postinst/postrm
[04:46] <norsetto> geser: would you suggest a particular rule?
[04:47] <geser> I'm test-buiding it now to see if cdbs already called dh_scrollkeeper
[04:48] <norsetto> geser: I looked at my logs but they stop halfways, rebuilding it now too
[04:53] <norsetto> geser: haven't seen any reference to dh_scrollkeeper
[05:04] <blueCmd> Can anybody confirm this? I need to be sure about this since I will talk with Novell's iFolder builder about developing an autobuilder for them to Ubuntu. They use stuff like /usr/libexec/web and spread all the Assembly-files all over, I'll propose this: http://rafb.net/p/GAXted73.html but If any packager with Mono experience could tell me if it looks fine, that would be great.
[05:05] <sladen> I don't know mono unfortunately
[05:05] <blueCmd> One would think that one of the 162 remaining would :)
[05:06] <sladen> blueCmd:  :)
[05:06] <ScottK> All I know about mono is that it isn't seeded by default in Kubuntu.
[05:06] <blueCmd> http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-packaging.html
[05:07] <blueCmd> It's based on that, so I'm pretty sure it's OK, but I want to be sure
[05:15] <sladen> blueCmd: looking at the comment it says something about /usr/share , is it moveing to there, or fro mthere?
[05:15] <blueCmd> It normally resides in /usr/libexec/web
[05:15] <blueCmd> So I moved to to /usr/share
[05:29] <geser> norsetto: untested but it should work if you add dh_scrollkeeper to common-binary-predeb-indep:: where you already have two other dh_ calls
[05:32] <norsetto> geser: ok, checking now
[05:33] <Nergar> hello
[05:33] <jussi01> Nergar: how can we help you?
[05:33] <Nergar> how can i talk to about upgrading one package in the repositories?
[05:34] <_MMA_> Can a Universe package have a Multiverse package set as a "Recommend"? (I cant think of one that does atm)
[05:35] <ScottK> Is it a metapackage?
[05:35] <jussi01> Nergar: which package?
[05:35] <_MMA_> ScottK: @ me?
[05:35] <ScottK> yes
[05:35] <ScottK> Metapackage recommends get installed by default.
[05:36] <_MMA_> No.
[05:36] <ScottK> I think it's OK.
[05:36] <_MMA_> I have a little project that can use LAME.
[05:36] <ScottK> I know Main packages can have recommends for Universe.
[05:36] <_MMA_> Ok
[05:37] <Nergar> jussi01, i have this problem http://www.nabble.com/gnump3d-displays-absolute-directories-in-url.-t3673485.html
[05:38] <ScottK> Is the new version in Debian yet?
[05:38] <jussi01> !info gnump3d gutsy
[05:38] <ubotu> gnump3d: A streaming server for MP3 and OGG files. In component universe, is optional. Version <IP_ADDRESS>final (gutsy), package size 638 kB, installed size 2644 kB
[05:39] <jussi01> seems the new version is in gutst
[05:39] <jussi01> gutsy even
[05:39] <ScottK> There we go.
[05:40] <Nergar> ok, i think i can wait till my birthday (oct 21) :P
[05:40] <geser> are dlls created with mono architecture dependent or independent?
[05:40] <jussi01> :)
[05:40] <blueCmd> geser, independant
[05:41] <Nergar> ok, thnx
[05:41] <Nergar> later
[05:41] <blueCmd> geser, The policy even clearly states that Mono-libs _need_ to be Architecture: any
[05:41] <blueCmd> 3.1.1 For packages that consist of 100% managed code, "Architecture: all" must be chosen in debian/control.
[05:42] <tuxmaniac> How is the sync from Ubuntu to Debian happen? If some packages are there in Ubuntu and not in Debian how is the process initiated? Is it just filing a ITP?
[05:43] <Q-FUNK> Hobbsee: do you feel like reviewing a package?
[05:43] <Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: not really, sorry
[05:43] <LucidFox> tuxmaniac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian
[05:46] <geser> blueCmd: I'm not familiar with mono: how to distinguish managed code from native code?
[05:46] <AndyP> confusing.. early in the gmpc changelog: "* Use libcurl4 instead of obsolete libcurl3 (Closes: #423915)", and more recently: "* Use libcurl3 instead of obsolete libcurl4 (Closes: #432578)"
[05:47] <blueCmd> geser, That I'm not sure of :) I know that Gcc produces native code, but do not know if mcs can do that too
[05:47] <AndyP> both changes done in debian
[05:47] <Hobbsee> AndyP: you clearly never heard about the curl breakage
[05:47] <Hobbsee> AndyP: debian went to 4, then back to 3
[05:48] <AndyP> Hobbsee: no one tells me anything
[05:48] <ScottK> And StevenK's upload statistics shot way up.
[05:48] <Hobbsee> AndyP: keep reading #ubuntu-devel
[05:48] <Hobbsee> AndyP: it's useful
[05:48] <AndyP> :)
[05:48] <LucidFox> geser> Managed code is code executed within the CLR.
[05:49] <Q-FUNK> foobar (x.y-0ubuntu1) gutsy; urgency=low
[05:49] <LucidFox> So, basically, all code written in C# or VB.NET is managed code.
[05:49] <Q-FUNK> this is the correct format for directly going into ubuntu?
[05:49] <LucidFox> Q-FUNK> yes
[05:57] <norsetto> geser: I have added dh_scrollkeeper to common-binary-predeb-indep:: but it doesn't work
[05:58] <geser> hmm
[06:03] <Q-FUNK> ogra: I packaged the utility that Indrek pointed us to. If you have time to review and sponsor, I built it straight for Ubuntu, because of the upcoming freeze.
[06:04] <norsetto> geser: I wonder if we need to include dh_installdeb
[06:06] <blueCmd> geser, I suspect that most of the code is native. There is a flag /d:MONONATIVE, but the only app that google knows using it is iFolder
[06:06] <blueCmd> most of the code is managed*
[06:06] <geser> norsetto: dh_clideps: Warning! No Build-Depends(-Indep) on cli-common-dev (>= 0.4.4)!
[06:07] <geser> you should make the build-dependency versioned
[06:07] <norsetto> geser: ok
[06:08] <norsetto> geser: I saw that and I was wondering what it meant, now I know :-)
[06:14] <geser> norsetto: I've added dh_scrollkeeper to the common-binary-predeb-indep target which didn't work as expected
[06:15] <geser> now I also renamed the whole target to binary-install/bless:: and it works
[06:15] <AndyP> dholbach: regarding bug #126697, did you "Grrr" because i did something wrong? let me know so i don't do it again next time :)
[06:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126697 in kid3 "Please merge kid3 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126697
[06:15] <dholbach> AndyP: no no no - completely fine :)
[06:15] <Hobbsee> kid3 is tempramental.  i was meaning to look at that
[06:16] <dholbach> AndyP: grrrr because the two .orig.tar.gz tarballs in Ubuntu and Debian are different
[06:16] <Hobbsee> oh, tarballs differ
[06:16] <dholbach> AndyP: that was nto remotely your fault
[06:16] <Hobbsee> yes, i knew there was some reason we didnt sync from debian
[06:16] <Hobbsee> kid3 is a sync, iirc.
[06:16] <AndyP> ah cool, that's good news :)
[06:16] <Hobbsee> dholbach: well, it is his responsibility to check, iirc
[06:17] <dholbach> Hobbsee: he posted a debdiff, it was all completely fine
[06:17] <dholbach> Hobbsee: he didn't suggest syncing
[06:17] <norsetto> geser: and u get the right run-time dependancies too?
[06:17] <Hobbsee> ah
[06:17] <Hobbsee> presumably debian will implement the dh_icons, then we can sync.
[06:17] <Hobbsee> actually, if debian has dh_icons now, that could ahve been shoved into debian kde extras
[06:17] <blueCmd> Of all packages I could have choosen to maintain, why did I choose One java, one .NET and one without autotools? :) I could have choosen 3 libraries noone ever heard of..
[06:18] <geser> norsetto: Depends: mono-runtime (>= <IP_ADDRESS>), libglade2.0-cil (>= 2.10.0), libglib2.0-cil (>= 2.10.0), libgtk2.0-cil (>= 2.10.0), libmono-corlib2.0-cil (>= 1.2.4), libmono-system2.0-cil (>= 1.2.4), libmono2.0-cil (>= 1.2.4), gtk-sharp2 (>= 2.8), scrollkeeper
[06:18] <geser> you can also drop the dh_shlibdeps call as cdbs will call it
[06:19] <AndyP> btw to check the tarballs are the same, is it ok to compare the hashes in the .dsc files?
[06:19] <ScottK> blueCmd: For the learning experience?
[06:19] <norsetto> ok, on the warning, do you still get it after versioning? I do
[06:20] <blueCmd> ScottK, exactly :)
[06:21] <LucidFox> blueCmd> What is the third one without autotools?
[06:21] <geser> norsetto: didn't check yet
[06:21] <blueCmd> ScottK, I'm handling 2 con-current Upstream negotations, one about license and one about FSH, the other one is blocked because a bug in ant I found :) It's fun as hell!
[06:21] <Hobbsee> AndyP: yes
[06:22] <Hobbsee> AndyP: with the knowledge that the source *could* possibly be screwed, so they're wrong
[06:22] <blueCmd> LucidFox, It's a personal tool, so I'm the one to blaim on that
[06:22] <blueCmd> blame*
[06:22] <Hobbsee> but very unlikely
[06:22] <LucidFox> But what _does_ it use?
[06:22] <blueCmd> LucidFox, A handmade Makefile
[06:23] <AndyP> Hobbsee: ok, i'll keep that in mind
[06:24] <LucidFox> ah
[06:24] <LucidFox> well, it's not that bad
[06:25] <blueCmd> LucidFox, No, but the other packages are hard enough :)
[06:25] <LucidFox> I mean, qdvdauthor used a bloody GUI configuration tool.
[06:26] <blueCmd> Woo, that's nice :)
[06:26] <LucidFox> (which can also work in command-line mode, but the point still stands)
[06:28] <geser> norsetto: setting Build-Depends-Indep: cli-common-dev (>= 0.4.4), ... and the warning is gone
[06:29] <LucidFox> geser, sorry for an off-topic question, but where did you get your username from?
[06:30] <norsetto> geser: ok, I tried that before, but before versioning, and didn't work
[06:30] <rmunn> I have a bit of an unusual packaging question... I'm trying to package a piece of software where upstream forgot to set the +x bit on ./configure, which doesn't show up in a .diff.gz. Where would be the best place to set the +x bit on ./configure - debian/rules, or what?
[06:31] <norsetto> geser: I was thinking to use 0.4.6 (which is edgy-backports up)
[06:32] <LucidFox> rmunn> just before the command that runs configure
[06:33] <rmunn> So, in debian/rules then.
[06:33] <LucidFox> in the default debian/rules, it's config.status
[06:33] <geser> LucidFox: taken from the "Night Watch" books written by Sergej Lukianenko I was just reading as I started with IRC and needed to pick a username
[06:33] <LucidFox> geser> Great
[06:33] <LucidFox> Just as I guessed ^_^
[06:33] <LucidFox> you should watch the movies as well
[06:34] <rmunn> LucidFox: Thanks for the help.
[06:35] <geser> LucidFox: only the first one was shown in german cinemas till now (I also have it on DVD)
[06:35] <LucidFox> Also, rmunn, you will generally want to keep the diff.gz restricted to the debian/ directory
[06:42] <norsetto> geser: would you be so kind to pastebin your control and rules? I still get that warning.....
[06:43] <rootvzla> epale leonel
[06:49] <geser> norsetto: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30452/ and http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30453/
[06:54] <Q-FUNK> http://q-funk.iki.fi/debian/pool/m/mkelfimage/mkelfimage_2.7-0ubuntu1.dsc
[06:54] <Q-FUNK> if anybody feels like reviewing and sponsoring this, be my guest.
[06:54] <norsetto> geser: thanks, the only diff is mine (>=0.4.4) yours (>= 0.4.4)!? rules is identical
[06:56] <norsetto> geser: indeed with >= 0.4.4 no warning ... is this supposed to be so or is a little buggie in dh_clidebs?
[06:59] <munckfish> I'm trying to run debuild -S for a gutsy package but I'm on feisty - I have a warning from lintian about bad distribution in the changelog, is there some config I need to add to make that go away, or should I just ignore it?
[06:59] <Hobbsee> you can ignore it
[06:59] <munckfish> Hobbsee: thx
[07:00] <geser> norsetto: >=0.4.4 should afaik also works, so I guess dh_clidebs is a little petty about the whitespace
[07:01] <norsetto> geser: thanks mate, you have been a real help
[07:01] <geser> np
[07:55] <ryanakca> erm, how do I fix this? http://pastebin.ca/626460 , and , should I get "W: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz was corrupt" ?
[08:01] <geser> ryanakca: have you tried if re-running apt-get update fixed it?
[08:03] <ryanakca> geser: yes
[08:06] <geser> hmm, I guessed that you hit a mirror pulse but if it remains if you re-run it than probably something else
[08:10] <LaserJock> is there a MOTU about? :-)
[08:10] <ScottK> Yes
[08:10] <AndyP> !ask | LaserJock
[08:10] <ubotu> LaserJock: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[08:10] <AndyP> ;)
[08:11] <jussi01> lol
[08:12] <LaserJock> ScottK: got time for a quick metapackage review for me?
[08:12] <rootvzla> hi LaserJock
[08:13] <rootvzla> :-)
[08:13] <ScottK> LaserJock: No, I need to be out the door in 15 minutes.  Sorry.
[08:13] <LaserJock> AndyP: thanks, I would never have known ;-)
[08:13] <LaserJock> ScottK: ok,, no problem
[08:14] <geser> LaserJock: what for do you need a MOTU?
[08:14] <LaserJock> geser: I need a quick ack of a source package I'm uploading to NEW. the .dsc is at http://laserjock.us/ubuntu/edubuntu-addon-meta_0.1.dsc
[08:15] <guardian> hi
[08:15] <zul> hery LaserJock
[08:15] <LaserJock> hi zul
[08:16] <guardian> i installed alsa 1.0.14 gutsy debs from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/  , on my feisty setup. tried to make my emu1212m work. still no luck there's no sound
[08:16] <guardian> is there anything else i should have done, appart from installing the debs ?
[08:17] <tsmithe> well i would guess the problem is you don't have the firmware uploaded
[08:17] <guardian> hmm makes sense, how to do that ? i've never configured alsa by myself
[08:18] <tsmithe> hang on about half an hour, and i have a recent-ish alsa-firmware package uploaded to my repository
[08:18] <tsmithe> i'm going to start looking at including the alsa-firmwares into linux-restricted-modules
[08:18] <guardian> oh ok
[08:18] <LaserJock> guardian: you sing the sacred chant of "song of the crimsun god", turn around 3 times, and clap your hands ;-)
[08:18] <guardian> also, i have a sblive aswell in the box, it does not work :)
[08:19] <tsmithe> hmm the sblive should work
[08:19] <tsmithe> what is the ouput from `asoundconf list`?
[08:19] <guardian> LaserJock: i know he's involved, yet i guess it must be annoying to answer the same alsa questions again and again :)
[08:19] <tsmithe> guardian, heh. i think he feels the same way :)
[08:19] <tsmithe> one day, i'll know enough to be some help
[08:19] <guardian> tsmithe: it outputs Emu1212m Live and also stuff related to my live cam (quickcam zoom something taht is not even recognized :) )
[08:20] <guardian> i tried to set default card using asoundconf
[08:20] <tsmithe> ok
[08:20] <tsmithe> ok
[08:20] <geser> LaserJock: looks ok after a quick review
[08:20] <guardian> i'll test again in about 40 mins, girlfriend's using the box right now, and my laptop is running windows
[08:21] <tsmithe> guardian, ok
[08:21] <LaserJock> geser: ok thanks, it's a pretty trivial package
[08:21] <tsmithe> guardian, alsa-firmware 1.0.14rc4 is uploading
[08:21] <enyc> aha... munchfish writing to enyc by mistake... [ok]
[08:22] <geser> LaserJock: those files in desktop should they validate with desktop-file-validate?
[08:23] <geser> LaserJock: warning: key "Encoding" in group "Desktop Entry" is deprecated
[08:23] <geser> but I don't know if it needed here
[08:23] <LaserJock> geser: hmm, they don't *have* to validate, but I can fix that easily, I just copied the existing format
[08:23] <ryanakca> geser: ah, fixed.
[08:24] <geser> here is your quick ACK for it :)
[08:25] <LaserJock> ;-)
[08:27] <AndyP> looks like gmpc will be ok for syncing once libmpd 0.14.0-2 makes its way into gutsy, pending a test build of course
[08:34] <superm1> ScottK, fyi: lgpl3 is now in the common licenses directory
[08:34] <superm1> LGPL-3 is the name of the file
[08:35] <rootvzla> hi statik
[08:36] <statik> hi rootvzla
[08:49] <tsmithe> guardian, sorry that took longer than i expected. it'll probably be another half-hour yet. (mistakes with ppa and upload speeds to blame)
[08:49] <rootvzla> hola tsmithe
[08:50] <tsmithe> hi rootvzla
[08:50] <guardian> np
[09:24] <rootvzla> hi leonel
[09:30] <ryanakca> hmm. Any sbuilders have any idea what I can do to fix http://pastebin.ca/626606?
[09:30] <xtknight> TheMuso_, sorry i haven't been around to deal with that bug uploading.  but i will try to be here later on tonight if you want to.  or whenever's cool
[09:41] <guardian> tsmithe: ok i can access the linux box
[09:41] <guardian> how can i test my sb live ?
[09:42] <tsmithe> guardian, well, you can run `asoundconf set-default-card` on the card you want, then try speaker-test
[09:42] <tsmithe> i'll see if alsa-firmware is built yet
[09:42] <tsmithe> unfortunately not
[09:43] <tsmithe> let's take this to private message
[09:43] <guardian> it reports errors
[09:43] <guardian> sure
[09:57] <xxxxx1> bye all
[10:07] <alexr> Hi there
[10:08] <alexr> doko: any chance you looked at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gramps/+bug/120569 yet?
[10:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120569 in gtkspell "[gutsy]  gtkspell segfaults when trying to set the language on gtk.TextView" [High,Confirmed]
[10:08] <doko> alexr: sorry, not yet
[10:09] <alexr> I don't want to bug you every day
[10:09] <alexr> but we really need it fixed somehow
[10:09] <alexr> our app cannot run because of this: gtkspell segfaults python
[10:09] <alexr> doko: should I check back in a week?
[10:10] <doko> alexr: did you check with recent gutsy`
[10:10] <doko> ?
[10:10] <alexr> Not me, but another devel from our team tried the recent gutsy test release
[10:10] <alexr> Not sure if this is recent enough
[10:13] <alexr> doko: he tried Tribe-2
[11:53] <jekil> if i have a source "tar.gz" like this http://update.aptana.com/update/3.2/aptana_update.zip ?
[11:54] <jekil> i must repackage it to aptana-version.tar.gz ?
[11:57] <geser> yes, dpkg expects a orig.tar.gz
[12:02] <jekil> geser: so i can repackage it?
[12:05] <Jazzva> What do I need to enter in debian/rules to copy the icon file? I tried with "cp $(CURDIR)/debian/fakenes.xpm /usr/share/pixmaps/fakenes.xpm" and got the "Permission error"... any other way to do this?
[12:06] <geser> jekil: yes
[12:08] <geser> Jazzva: the package is build in $(CURDIR)/debian/<packagename> (or debian/tmp)
[12:09] <Jazzva> geser: So, instead of /usr/... I should copy it to $(CURDIR)/debian//usr/...
[12:09] <Jazzva> ?


[03:05] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[05:41] <ducasse> good morning
[06:12] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:33] <lotuspsychje> !info e17
[09:53] <lotuspsychje> absence: the difference between a support question and a discussion:
[09:54] <lotuspsychje> can you help me with making java work i need it for program x
[09:54] <lotuspsychje> discussion: please explain me why openjdk 13 has been removed from the repos
[09:55] <lotuspsychje> absence: we try to divide discussions and support questions into the right channels
[09:55] <ducasse> answer: it was never there
[09:55] <absence> lotuspsychje: to me they both look like support questions, but i'm happy to ask here if that's better :)
[09:57] <absence> ducasse: what do you mean?
[09:57] <absence> https://packages.ubuntu.com/source/eoan/openjdk-13
[09:57] <ducasse> !info openjdk-13 eoan
[09:59] <absence> !info openjdk-13-jdk eoan
[09:59] <absence> !info openjdk-13-jdk focal
[09:59] <absence> ducasse: confusing
[10:00] <ducasse> launchpad lists it as a debian package only
[10:00] <lotuspsychje> absence: tell us why you need 13 for exactly?
[10:01] <absence> ducasse: it was in 19.10 and was removed, but there's no info in the release notes, so i'm just trying to find out what is the ubuntu way to install it
[10:01] <ducasse> if it's not in the repos there is no official way
[10:02] <absence> lotuspsychje: development at work
[10:02] <lotuspsychje> absence: wich feature do you need from 13 you dont have in 11?
[10:04] <absence> lotuspsychje: i've no idea, it's what all the projects are set up for
[10:04] <lotuspsychje> absence: try 11 and let us know what you miss?
[10:18] <absence> lotuspsychje: looks like something is specifically looking for java 13
[10:18] <absence> anyway, if there's no ubuntu package for it anymore, i'll just get it from java.net
[10:19] <lotuspsychje> absence: 'something' ?
[10:20] <absence> lotuspsychje: yes, something. i'm not about to spend time on what it is when i can fix it by installing the version we're using :)
[10:22] <ducasse> you could look for a third party repo
[10:22] <lotuspsychje> absence: did you actually try 11?
[10:23] <daftykins> it's not really advisable to go backwards with things like java, functions could be used that simply don't exist in an earlier edition
[10:24] <daftykins> however, it also doesn't make sense that you would rush to adopt a newer LTS
[10:25] <lotuspsychje> im pretty curious about what actually not working in 11
[10:26] <absence> daftykins: i'm not on lts, this is just a dev machine, not the prod server
[10:27] <lotuspsychje> absence: but your original question was why 20.04 dint have 13 right
[10:27] <daftykins> absence: are you not asking about openjdk on focal? i.e. 20.04 i.e. LTS
[10:28] <daftykins> devs work on stable hosts in order to target stable releases.
[10:28] <absence> daftykins: well yes, but i upgraded from 19.10, so i'm not following lts releases
[10:31] <absence> lts wasn't viable last time because of hardware support issues, but focal seems to work, so maybe it's a good idea to stay on lts this time
[10:52] <jeremy31> lotuspsychje: discovered has a wifi that is supported only by rtl8812au-dkms in the repos
[10:53] <jeremy31> I wonder if it has not been patched for 20.04
[10:53] <lotuspsychje> jeremy31: he's on 20.04
[10:54] <lotuspsychje> his system seems up to date with kernel 5.4 -28 too
[10:56] <jeremy31> He is using an out of tree unsigned module from the dmesg
[10:56] <lotuspsychje> oh?
[10:57] <jeremy31> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rtl8812au/+bug/1875016
[10:58] <jeremy31> Last change to rtl8812au-dkms was July 2019
[10:59] <lotuspsychje> tnx jeremy31
[10:59] <jeremy31> It might be best to file a new bug report with apport info
[10:59] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[11:02] <lotuspsychje> jeremy31: requested an apport-collect on that bug
[14:52] <lotuspsychje> leftyfb: zahnx is being trolly since few days, offensive and all
[16:06] <leftyfb> ok, I'm done.