[05:00] <Vantrax> afternoon, anyone able to advise me on adding some docco to the wiki?
[20:10] <philip-> are you guys happy with how rosetta works?


[01:19] <sVooX> ="
[06:26] <knightwise> morning everyone
[06:26] <MooDoo_> morning
[06:27] <knightwise> hey MooDoo ! :)
[06:27] <knightwise> how are you today :)
[06:27] <MooDoo> knightwise: it's 07:27 and I'm in the office.....er FAB ;)
[06:34] <jussi> MooDoo: do you have a long trip to your office?  (Im often in mine at that time)
[06:35] <MooDoo> jussi: no it's about 40 mins from my house, I'm on the 7am start this week
[06:35] <jussi> MooDoo: ahh much longer than my commute then. :D
[06:35]  * jussi 's commute is approx 15 steps :D
[06:35] <MooDoo> jussi: ah work from home?
[06:36] <jussi> MooDoo: yep
[06:36] <jussi> MooDoo: what kind of work do you do?
[06:36] <MooDoo> jussi: tech support for an web hosting company
[06:37] <jussi> ahh yeah. Im one of those nasty salespeople (although for a software/open source type company)
[06:37] <MooDoo> :)
[06:38] <jussi> (and no, its not canonical :P )
[06:38] <MooDoo> hehe
[06:41] <MartijnVdS> jussi: as long as you don't sell things the devteam can't make.. ;)
[06:41] <jussi> MartijnVdS: of course I do!
[06:41] <jussi> :P
[07:16] <knightwise> anyone know a good command line bittorrent client ?
[07:17] <MooDoo> rtorrent i think
[07:21] <dwatkins> yeah, rtorrent is pretty nifty
[07:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings
[07:21] <dwatkins> greetings TheOpenSourcerer
[07:21] <MooDoo> mornign
[07:21] <MartijnVdS> \o TheOpenSourcerer
[07:21] <dwatkins> ...and everyone else ;)
[07:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Back after a week off.
[07:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not terribly motivated this morning. :-(
[07:22] <MooDoo> I can believe it
[07:22] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: This week: http://www.gbbf.org.uk/
[07:22] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: if you want something to look forward to ;)
[07:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh
[07:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've been to that a few times recently.
[07:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yesterday I was here: http://www.westdean.org.uk/Garden/News%20and%20Events/ChilliFiesta.aspx
[07:25] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: cool (hot?)
[07:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> yep
[07:57] <AlanBell> morning
[07:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> \o AlanBell
[08:16] <DJones> Morning
[08:33] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:34] <popey> Morning.
[08:34] <brobostigon> morning popey
[08:44] <SuperMatt> morning funky-hatted people
[08:44] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Youth Day! :-D
[08:44] <SuperMatt> bah
[08:44] <SuperMatt> youth
[08:45] <SuperMatt> I remember that
[08:48] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:51] <DJones> SuperMatt: Remembr youth? If I wasn't going senile, I might remember it
[09:03] <mungbean_> what class of micro sd card should i be getting for my phone?
[09:16] <popey> AlanBell: you said alt-tab was better in 13.10, can you test something for me pls?
[09:17] <popey> on workspace 1, open some apps (terminal and browser for example), then switch to workspace 2, open a terminal there so it's the in-focus app
[09:17] <popey> now switch back to workspace 1, alt-tab
[09:17] <popey> note that it keeps you in terminal, rather than taking you to the browser
[09:21] <Guest14455> nick mungbean
[09:44] <mungbean_> is there anythig faster than a class 10 micro sd?
[09:45] <directhex> yes
[09:45] <directhex> UHS grade 1
[09:46] <directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#Speeds
[09:47] <mungbean_> still 10MB/s?
[09:47] <mungbean_> my sd card is struggling as i've offset my internal phone storage onto it for apps et
[09:47] <mungbean_> cos the htc desire has pitiful internal storage
[09:47] <mungbean_> makes even the keyboard laggy
[09:48] <mungbean_> but i already have a class 10
[09:49] <DJones> mungbean_: I've got a class 10 in my Galaxy S3 with quite a few apps on the card, I can't say I've noticed any speed issues, that may just be because its a newer & faster phone though
[09:49] <mungbean_> i'm not doing the android "move to SD" thing though
[09:49] <mungbean_> rather formatted part of the sd card to use as internal storage
[09:51] <bigcalm> mungbean_: I think that you'll be limited by the hardware of the Desire
[09:51] <mungbean_> :(
[09:51] <bigcalm> This is my idle speculation
[09:51] <mungbean_> it speeds up when i clear cache etc
[09:52] <bigcalm> Yes, I found that with my Nexus One, before I sold it to my Dad
[09:52] <DJones> mungbean_: http://androidforums.com/htc-desire/304477-whats-fastest-sd-card-htc-desire-can-handle.html Suggests that even if you put a class 10 in, the desire is only capeable of accessing at class 6 speeds
[09:53] <mungbean_> bah
[09:53] <mungbean_> looks like i have to put up with it then
[09:53] <mungbean_> my missis doesn't suffer the same
[09:54] <mungbean_> (or doesn't complain)
[09:54] <DJones> The comment could be something thats not supported by facts though, maybe have to check the hardware spec to confirm it
[09:54] <mungbean_> apps are certainly getting a lot bigger
[09:54] <mungbean_> why is ebay and amazon app 10mb+
[09:55] <bigcalm> Partly why I continue to use web interfaces rather than apps
[09:55] <bigcalm> Very much so for Facebook, but then I don't use FB a whole lot any way
[09:55] <directhex> also, remember that the controller matters as much as the card
[09:56] <directhex> and most cards on the market are fakes which don't meet the stated speed class
[09:56] <DJones> The app's are 512K, its the adverts that make up the other 9.5Mb :)
[09:56] <mungbean_> it works OK sometimes but suffers from android lag
[09:56] <mungbean_> i was sad to hve to replace tweetdeck
[09:57] <mungbean_> installed the official twitter app and i have to sign in each time,. doesn't remember password
[09:59] <popey> damnit, made a cup of tea, left it in the kitchen #fml
[10:00] <bigcalm> Ha
[10:00] <bigcalm> popey: nothing worse in life eh?
[10:00] <DJones> That'd be more of problem if it was the kitchen at home and you were in the office
[10:00] <mungbean_> ewww tea
[10:04] <bigcalm> Will be sad not to go to oggcamp this year. Will somebody bring back a mug for me? :D
[10:04]  * popey no longer drinks coffee ☹
[10:04] <bigcalm> That said, winning 2 mugs last year in the raffle was a little much
[10:04] <bigcalm> (which have yet to be used)
[10:04] <popey> i use mine daily
[10:05] <bigcalm> Oh, the oggcamp mugs we use, I mean the chalk board mugs are still in their boxes
[10:05] <Oli> Any electricians (amateur or otherwise) in here? I'm looking for a crimp that can securely hold two wires that have been twisted together without anything else come in and touch them.  Certain they exist but I can't convince Google or Amazon to show me them. What's the proper name?
[10:05] <DJones> Duct tape?
[10:06] <Oli> That is my current option, yes
[10:06] <DJones> Thats about as near as I could come up with
[10:06] <bigcalm> Oli: so you don't want to use a chocolate block?
[10:06] <DJones> Chocolate blocks
[10:06] <Oli> bigcalm: truth is there may be more than one cable... There may be three or four.
[10:07] <popey> yeah, you should use choc blocks
[10:07] <Oli> Oh okay, you win
[10:07] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/BLUE-BUTT-TERMINAL-CRIMP-CONNECTORS/dp/B0046V1G9I/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1376302033&sr=8-2&keywords=crimp+connectors
[10:07] <popey> or those are what you specifically asked for?
[10:07] <DJones> There are some I've used on a car that take a 2 cables into a connector, the connector has a hole at each end and just compresses using pliers
[10:07] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Way-Gel-Filled-Connector-Crimps-Packet/dp/B007FGX3TW/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1376302050&sr=8-8&keywords=crimp+connectors
[10:07] <popey> or those for multi-way
[10:07] <DJones> Hmmh, popey read my mind
[10:08] <popey> amazon did
[10:08] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:08] <Oli> Butt terminals could do the job...
[10:08] <DJones> That was exactly what I was thinking of anyway
[10:08] <Oli> That gel one looks a bit whacky
[10:08] <bigcalm> Waterproof though
[10:09] <Oli> True
[10:10] <DJones> That just makes want to go out and buy a packet of gummi bears
[10:10] <Oli> These are what I was thinking of origininally: http://img.alibaba.com/wsphoto/v0/602861800_1/free-shipping-1000-pcs-Nylon-Crimp-Caps-Gauge-Wire-Connectors-Terminals-Close-End-Wire-Terminal.jpg
[10:11] <bigcalm> I think that there is a kind of screw on version of those as well
[10:12] <Oli> That sounds familiar
[10:14] <bigcalm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twist-on_wire_connector
[10:18] <AlanBell> popey: yes, it does
[10:18] <AlanBell> hmm, is that expected or not I wonder
[10:22] <popey> seems like a bug to me?
[10:27] <AlanBell> dunno, I expect the developers would dispute that
[10:27] <AlanBell> however the designers might not
[10:28] <AlanBell> alt-tab takes you to the last application type you had focus on, which was terminal, on the other workspace
[10:29] <popey> i will poke a designer
[10:29] <popey> and then talk to them on irc
[10:29] <AlanBell> or it takes you to the last window you had open, which was terminal on the other workspace
[10:37] <mungbean_> should i be able to add my ssh key to a keyring so i never have to type the password after logging in?
[10:38] <mungbean_> doesn't seem to work for me
[10:38] <directhex> yes, you should.
[10:41] <mungbean_> ah, under details i had "lock this key when i log out" selected
[10:42] <popey> AlanBell: confirmed with design it's a bug, can you confirm pls https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1211261
[10:45] <AlanBell> popey: do you sometimes see the top bar shadow overlayed on browser tabs of maximised browsers?
[10:45] <AlanBell> especially after changing monitor configurations a bit
[10:47] <popey> i can't say i have
[10:47] <popey> but i haven't plugged my laptop into an external display for a while
[10:48] <popey> bigcalm: i may have to duck out of the real ale train ☹
[10:48] <bigcalm> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :(
[10:50] <bigcalm> Life happens to us all but you shall be missed
[10:51]  * TheOpenSourcerer will also not be going on the RAT - I'll be in Italy. Anyone want to buy my ticket?
[10:51] <popey> well, i _could_ go, but i am off booze, so I would have to set around watching you lot get drunk
[10:51] <bigcalm> :O
[10:51] <bigcalm> Oh gawd
[10:51] <popey> guess i could go ☻
[10:52] <popey> and drive home after ☻
[10:52] <AlanBell> designated driver \o/
[10:52] <popey> yeah, why not, i love steam trains and I've already paid for the ticket :D
[10:52] <mgdm> I was thinking about going but it's a bit of a trek
[10:52] <jussi> popey: just make it 10£ per person for a lift home, and youll end up with more than you came...
[10:52] <mgdm> TheOpenSourcerer: I might, I will investigate further after lunch
[10:52] <popey> haha
[10:52] <bigcalm> Is this a short term change of drinking habit, or does it continue to the 25th October?
[10:52] <popey> good idea!
[10:53] <popey> bigcalm: not sure
[10:53] <popey> see what doc says
[10:53] <mgdm> Oh, medical reasons :/
[10:53] <bigcalm> popey: there will be other drinks, so as long as you come :)
[10:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Change your doc. Mine recommends 21 Units a day ;-)
[10:54] <jussi> haah
[10:54] <bigcalm> Nice
[10:54] <jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: are you your own doctor? :D
[10:54] <bigcalm> mgdm: a bit of a trek, but a damn good night out
[10:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - nope.
[10:55] <mgdm> bigcalm: where is it again?
[10:55] <popey> alton
[10:55] <bigcalm> mgdm: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/
[10:55] <bigcalm> (not Alton Towers)
[10:57] <JethroTroll> We need an #ubuntu-uk meet at Alton Towers!!
[10:57] <JethroTroll> AlanBell will smuggle the food in.
[11:04] <bigcalm> Did somebody mention cake? What a good idea
[11:04] <jussi> bigcalm: the cake is a lie!

[11:10] <bigcalm> This cake is no lie :D
[11:10] <davmor2> it is a lie to us :P
[11:11] <bigcalm> http://pushingthewrongbuttons.tumblr.com/post/57971649835/sunday-is-cake-baking-day
[11:11]  * bigcalm noms
[11:12] <davmor2> bigcalm: very nice
[11:12] <bigcalm> davmor2: I may have over done the butter icing a little
[11:18] <andylockran> morning alls
[11:22] <bigcalm> For a moment, I thought you were only greeting the Alans of the channel
[11:25] <mungbean_> i think this page needs removing http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> it's almost a year old
[11:26] <Oli> But weren't we all, once?
[11:28] <bigcalm> I think some of us still are
[11:28] <Oli> I'll have you know I'm at least one and three quarters.
[11:29] <Oli> Apologies, I think I'm having an alergic reaction to Monday. It's making me very silly.
[11:33] <popey> i'll set it to redirect to brobostigon's stats
[11:33] <popey> where are they?
[11:56] <dvrr> chkconfig  not install  in ubuntu12.10
[11:58] <popey> sudo apt-get install chkconfig
[11:59] <dvrr> i try to install  apt-get  i face  problem   "E: Package 'chkconfig' has no installation candidate"
[12:00] <dvrr> popey
[12:02] <popey> ooh, seems it's been removed
[12:02] <popey> i wonder why
[12:02] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/221293/why-chkconfig-is-not-available-in-ubuntu-12-10
[12:18] <davmor2> man gvfs has a big hit on speed, nautilus over ssh using gvfs 4.2 Gb/s,  scp 11.8 Gb/s on the same file
[12:19] <Guest22339> why does Firefox not use libnotify other than it not linking directly to downloads folder after a download being completed
[12:19] <bigcalm> davmor2: GB not KB?
[12:19] <bigcalm> Or even MB
[12:20] <davmor2> bigcalm: it's a backup on the local network
[12:20] <bigcalm> I would be happy with 4.2GB/s over a network connection :)
[12:21] <davmor2> bigcalm: no you're right sorry Mb/s
[12:21] <davmor2> but still it's a huge performance hit
[12:21]  * bigcalm prints and frames
[12:22] <davmor2> bigcalm: only this time most of the time you're wrong :P
[12:22] <bigcalm> Ha
[12:23] <davmor2> bigcalm: as I say though it's still a huge speed difference scp for the win me thinks :)
[12:24] <bigcalm> Quite
[12:24] <bigcalm> I see the same over CIFS. Haven't checked the speed of NFS yet
[12:29] <dwatkins> I've got my NAS mounted via NFS, and I get 11 Megabytes/s out of it.
[12:29] <dwatkins> nfsstat tells me I'm using NFS v3.
[12:49] <^2fC> lo :)
[12:49] <Oli> I get 113MB/s read over gigabit+NFS
[12:50] <Oli> Fades a bit after a few seconds to ~100-110MB/s
[12:50] <Oli> And that's a pv copy from RAID5 (nfs server) to /dev/null (so there's no write slowdown factored into that)
[12:58] <dwatkins> I imagine my speed is somewhat reduced by being over 100 MBit/s ethernet and to a rather old netbook.
[13:02] <mungbean> just ate the most disappointing sandwich ever.
[13:05] <dwatkins> what was in it, just margarine, mungbean?
[13:05] <mungbean> plum sauce and duck
[13:05] <mungbean> sounds lovely but was tasteless and minging
[13:10] <SuperMatt> mmm duck
[13:11] <brobostigon> i hope the stats are working right.
[13:12] <mungbean> i've lost the tux babygro ..wonder if my wife has "lost" it
[13:12] <mungbean> wanted to put my daughter in it
[13:14] <MartijnVdS> https://github.com/philipl/pifs
[13:19] <Guest67532> why doesfirefox not use libnotify for notifications
[13:22] <popey> brobostigon: link?
[13:24] <brobostigon-quas> taylorworld.me.uk/ubuntu-uk.HTML
[13:24] <brobostigon-quas> sorry, it messed up the case.
[13:24] <popey> looks like it's working fine
[13:25] <brobostigon-quas> cool, good.
[13:25] <mungbean> do you also collect monthly stats rather than alltime brobostigon-quas ?
[13:26] <mungbean> and what happened to gord?
[13:27] <brobostigon-quas> umm.
[13:27] <popey> http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/ now redirects
[13:27] <popey> he left canonical to do other things
[13:27] <popey> some while back now
[13:27] <brobostigon-quas> OK. I will do my best to keep it running properly.
[13:28] <mgdm> mrevell: did Chris Molozian move to another company?
[13:29] <mungbean> sorry i didn't explain, i mean, "most active nicks" is often more useful over a month period rather than all time , innit?
[13:29] <mrevell> mgdm, I think he is contracting.
[13:29] <mgdm> mrevell: Ah. I got an email from Lee this morning saying 'Chris is no longer with us', which I took to mean he'd left the company, not that he'd left this existence...
[13:29] <mrevell> hah, no, he is alive :)
[13:30] <mgdm> hehe
[13:30] <mgdm> good :-)
[14:05] <mungbean> "Please clear this box if you would not like to receive offers and information from us"
[14:05] <mungbean> arggh confusing!!
[14:17] <popey> mungbean: i hate the ones that have two boxes, one you have to tick, one you have to not tick
[14:18] <mungbean> yes, there followed a similar reverse question
[14:18] <mungbean> was stressful enough jst buying the product
[14:18] <popey> heh
[14:18] <mungbean> roofbars for my motor
[14:20]  * bigcalm returns from a lunch time nap - working from home++
[14:20] <mungbean> i wonder if g+ will ever take off
[14:21] <mungbean> i just have loads of contacts who never post anything, and nr do i
[14:22] <dwatkins> I use it quite a lot, but most people I know on there are technical-types.
[14:22] <mungbean> ask.fm must have benefitted from a lot of free publicity from the dailymail as somebody has signed up with my email address.
[14:24] <dwatkins> how does that get them free publicity?
[14:25] <popey> I'd say G+ has taken off
[14:25] <bigcalm> I've stopped looking at it
[14:25] <popey> given both my brother and sister out of the blue said they want to leave facebook, and try something else like twitter & G+
[14:25] <popey> neither of them are techy at all
[14:26] <popey> and I never talk about G+ to them, so it's not my influence
[14:33] <dwatkins> my niece left Facebook for a week.
[14:33] <mungbean> i like facebook
[14:33] <dwatkins> she's 15, though, this sort of thing is just what I expect as the on-going drama of being a teenager ;)
[14:34] <dwatkins> I saw the reason why - some kid at her school was horrid
[14:34] <dwatkins> (in a completely inappropriate way, too, but I won't go into details)
[14:34] <Oli> It's going to be amazing for kids these days when they're 40 and they look back at all this crap that Facebook kindly logged for them.
[14:34] <popey> my aunt created a new account because "my old one had thousands of friends, and I wanted a clean start"
[14:35] <popey> my neice posted photos of her driving license online ☹
[14:35] <zleap> i just got bored with facebook
[14:35] <zleap> ended up with 2 accounts as someone invited me and i was unable to work out how to add them to what i already had
[14:35] <mungbean> my family alone is around 70 people
[14:35] <mungbean> maybe nearer 100
[14:36] <mungbean> cousins and brothers , uncles etc
[14:36] <Oli> That's a lot of people.
[14:37] <popey> i have "30 friends" apparently
[14:37] <Oli> On facebook or just generally?
[14:39] <popey> fb
[14:39] <mungbean> i have about 30 in my staging area
[14:39] <mungbean> similar number waiting in linked for rejection
[14:39] <Oli> You make your friends audition?
[14:39] <popey> and i follow 1100 people on G+
[14:39] <Oli> cripes
[14:39] <AlanBell> if I post a picture of my kids building a robot arm, on Facebook people are more interested in what my kids are up to in the holidays, on G+ people want to know what python library we used
[14:40] <bigcalm> :D
[14:40] <mungbean> fb has more control and access to comments and notifications
[14:40] <mungbean> g+ handling of all that is terrible
[14:40] <AlanBell> I have zero clue who sees what on facebook
[14:40] <AlanBell> and why stuff turns up in my feed
[14:40] <zleap> AlanBell, cool re robot arm
[14:40] <popey> some of my family found out of my fathers death because someone tagged him and said something
[14:40] <zleap> tom on the dclug has a voice controlled robot arm
[14:41] <popey> so everyone who is a friend of his found out
[14:41] <zleap> not good i guess
[14:41] <popey> indeed
[14:41] <mungbean> unless you want that info out there, then its an excellent medium
[14:41] <dwatkins> I tagged someone on facebook who I wasn't aware had passed away :(
[14:42] <AlanBell> at some point I will probably unfriend pretty much everyone who isn't a relative on facebook
[14:42] <popey> thats exactly what I did
[14:42] <popey> and only use fb for family and for school / ballet groups, and admin of UUPC etc
[14:42] <mungbean> i belong to a large church (well over 1000 ppl each week), so there's a massive social side too
[14:43] <zleap> i just go to the page of my local rugby club,  theyh have several, i can't be botered enough to make an account and trawl all the different club fb pages for info
[14:43] <mungbean> its a good way for people to share their lives when you don't get chance to see them each week
[14:43] <zleap> yeah but if done properly
[14:43] <popey> yeah, since my dad went, his wife is on fb a lot, staying in contact and asking me for pc support
[14:44] <zleap> but the club also has a website it would be better to put events there and then have everyone share on their individual pages
[14:45] <zleap> i like the look of the plymouthwebdev group it has one simple webpage and a twitter link
[14:45] <zleap> so nice and simple,  the page as info about them and info as to when the meetings are
[14:48] <directhex> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/lingo-show/songs/lingo-show-blodwen-hello/
[15:00] <Oli> What is this?!
[15:00] <Oli> It burns.
[15:01]  * popey chuckles at @straightprideuk going full streisand
[15:01] <popey> although pretty sure it's an elaborate troll.
[15:03] <AlanBell> it is probably Anne Widicombe
[15:17] <mungbean> considering they mention gingerpride...pretty sure.
[15:19] <AlanBell> is codeplex good or bad? http://phpexcel.codeplex.com/ looks potentially useful
[15:19] <halt> HI guys, i try to configure sudo but got a syntax error could you guys have a look at it ?
[15:20] <AlanBell> halt: that doesn't quite make sense, but do ask your real question
[15:20] <halt> I have just simple file called user in the /etc/sudoers.d folder with 0440 permission, and the content of the file is "user ALL=NOPASSWD:/bin/su admin_user"
[15:20] <AlanBell> oh, maybe it does make sense :)
[15:21] <halt> i got the >>> /etc/sudoers.d/user: syntax error near line 0 <<<   message
[15:28] <halt> AlanBell: got it I think it's a bug
[15:28] <halt> i have to open one more line in the file
[15:29] <halt> then it's wroking, so if i have one single line then it's give me a sytax error, if i have one enter on the end of the line then it's works
[16:53] <Azelphur> popey: do you do full drive backups with rsnapshot? if so, can you show me your backup line? :)
[16:55] <bigcalm> rdiff-backup FTW :D
[17:03] <popey> Azelphur: backup line?
[17:03] <Azelphur> yea, the line with all the excludes and scuh
[17:03] <Azelphur> such(
[17:04] <popey> i dont have excludes in the individual backup lines
[17:04] <popey> i have excludes separately
[17:04] <Azelphur> oh?
[17:04] <popey> because i do the same excludes on all machines
[17:04] <Azelphur> I see
[17:04] <Azelphur> I'm game for that anyway tbh, would be nice to have full drive backups of all my stuff
[17:05] <popey> i exclude /dev /proc /tmp /sys /lib/udev/devices and /home/.ecryptfs
[17:06] <Azelphur> cool, ty :)
[17:19] <popey> np
[17:27] <awilkins> Just wasted 40 minutes of my life checking DLL versions on Windows copies of Apache2 / OpenSSL
[17:27] <diddledan> awilkins: why?
[17:27] <DJones> Can anybody suggest a reason for this http://imagebin.org/267290 Updated software is available, do I want to install it, but it doesn't tell me what it wants to update
[17:27] <awilkins> diddledan, Because our IT department gives us a free Security Check and sends us horrible vulnerability reports
[17:28] <awilkins> diddledan, The real question is : why the hell are we running services that run entirely off Apache, Java and Tomcat on *!&^^£!"£ Windows 2003 server
[17:28] <diddledan> DJones: it's a malware update :-p
[17:28] <awilkins> The philosophical question is : Why doesn't Windows have a proper fricking package manager
[17:29] <diddledan> awilkins: ouch, and yes, it should be running on a POSIX system!
[17:29] <DJones> diddledan: At least updating in a terminal tells me its bamfdaemon, libbamf3-1 and libdvdnav4
[17:29] <awilkins> The answer to the question is that these are virtual machines and our ICT dept is too "underskilled" to support Linux in a VM
[17:29] <diddledan> DJones: as I said, malware :-p
[17:30] <diddledan> whart?!
[17:30] <awilkins> Bah
[17:30] <awilkins> diddledan, They only have people who know how to break Windows, ysee
[17:30] <diddledan> thank god our techy team (including me in that) is entirely linux-based
[17:31] <diddledan> we're only small though, so we're able to be agile in that way
[17:31] <awilkins> Right, I'm blowing this popsicle stand and going home
[17:31] <diddledan> I've finally started moving our old outdated gentoo systems to ubuntu \o/
[17:32] <diddledan> our issue tracker and nagios setup are going to be the first to go
[18:17] <daftykins> some snaps of my island if anyones interested
[18:17] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/em6gqyhhbc4e01p/gT4UekIhov
[18:19] <popey> pretty place
[18:19] <diddledan> daftykins: I'm not sure you can claim ownership
[18:20] <daftykins> diddledan: after an accident one day i was left with a scar on my hand in the exact shape of the island, now i'm King due to old laws
[18:20] <daftykins> it's just yet to sink in to general knowledge... ;)
[18:20] <diddledan> lol
[18:20] <daftykins> popey: sure can be!
[18:20]  * davmor2 has an image of Braveheart in his head with daftykins saying My Island
[18:21] <diddledan> <weird accent>they can take our homes and our familiies and everything, but they cannot take our FREEDOM! oh wait, hang on.</weird accent>
[18:22] <diddledan> obviously that's paraphrased a bit
[18:22]  * dwatkins hands diddledan the blue paint
[18:23] <diddledan> mmm, tasty
[18:29] <diddledan> so, ubuntu phased updates. will they be used for security patches or only non-security updates?
[18:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> https://plus.google.com/u/0/104060033182234025482/posts/FAhn1YNnkjv
[18:37] <daftykins> :D
[18:37] <daftykins> there's a guy over here who has a second bike frame mounted on top of a first, so he's sat right up high like stilts height
[18:38] <daftykins> seems a frightening thing to ride
[18:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yay! England win the Ashes!
[18:44] <brobostigon> the brobostigon'ator is watching TBBT.
[18:45] <diddledan> o_O
[18:46] <diddledan> is that another simon cowell thing. first there was britain's got talent (BGT) now there's TBBT (The best British Talent)?
[18:46] <mgdm> The Big Bang Theory
[18:46] <diddledan> aah
[18:46] <diddledan> close
[18:46] <diddledan> I nearly got it first time
[18:47] <brobostigon> he blasphemed, not knowing TBBT, :D
[18:48] <diddledan> be honest, sciency types can't blaspheme, that's a religious thing.
[18:49] <diddledan> ok, closest seaside has to be more than 50 miles away, yet I keep hearing dozens of gulls
[18:49] <brobostigon> diddledan: yes , i know, cant one make a joke?
[18:49] <diddledan> brobostigon: in your case, probably not. certainly if that's your best effort :-p
[18:50] <ali1234> burn
[18:50] <diddledan> I'm a witch now?
[18:50] <mgdm> diddledan: you're in no position to be revoking anyone's licence to make jokes. :P
[18:51] <diddledan> mgdm: but.. I have a homemade "humour police" shield and everything!
[18:51] <brobostigon> diddledan: my best recent joke, is designing a baby brow for my brother and his partner, that says the following on a prison patterned texture, "i have been inside for 9 months"
[18:51] <diddledan> brobostigon: lol
[18:51] <brobostigon> grow*
[18:52] <brobostigon> diddledan: now thats a joke. :)
[18:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Time for University Challenge...
[18:53] <diddledan> I'm not geek enough to do well at university challenge
[18:55] <diddledan> the computer related questions are always widdle-easy though.
[18:56] <diddledan> I'm sure they must have had a question along the lines "after what mammal is a computer's pointing device named?"
[18:57] <mgdm> the last computer question I remember was 'what does the A in LAMP stand for?'
[18:57] <diddledan> did paxman pretend he knew the answer?
[18:58] <mgdm> he didn't have to pretend, seeing as it was written in front of him
[18:58] <diddledan> yeah, but sometimes he's incredulous that the teams don't know
[18:58] <diddledan> so he rubs their nose in it
[18:58] <diddledan> he's somewhat confrontational
[18:59] <diddledan> with his "come on!!!!"s
[19:32] <AlanBell> popey: when you hover over the sound indicator, and use the mouse wheel, should it change the volume like it used to do, or should you have to click it and hover over the slider and roll the wheel in what feels to me like the wrong way?
[19:32] <popey> heh
[19:33] <popey> i didnt know you used to be able to by just hovering over the indicator
[19:33] <popey> i thought you always had to open the indicator menu up
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> i filed a bug about that 2 weeks ago
[19:33] <popey> yay
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> let me find the number
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> bug 1220470
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> which got merged into bug 1204036
[19:36]  * popey "Me too's"
[19:38] <AlanBell> I guess the dash downloading and showing you screenshots of applications you ask it to launch is a feature though
[19:38] <AlanBell> oh, maybe they stopped that now
[19:39] <AlanBell> yay, they did
[19:40] <ali1234> wow, i thought everyone knew about the mouse wheel thing
[19:40] <ali1234> i wonder if that is broken if you use the sound indicator on gnome-panel?
[19:41] <AlanBell> it is a really nice feature, because you can change it without taking focus from any windows
[19:41] <ali1234> yes
[19:42] <ali1234> switching focus is always risky
[19:42] <ali1234> although technically clicking the indicator doesn't remove focus from the current window, at least not with gnome-panel and metacity
[19:43] <AlanBell> mainly because videos tend to un-fullscreen themselves, even if you do something on another monitor, but you can (could) do the volume change
[19:43] <ali1234> yeah there's that
[19:43] <ali1234> although i have seen applications that will un-fullscreen if you even so much as use the keyboard volume controls
[19:44] <ali1234> and then there's stuff that blocks keyboard controls and trap the mouse inside the fullscreen window (SDL!!!)
[19:45] <ali1234> i think that's fixed in SDL2 though
[19:45] <mungbean> man, i still cannot disable the ubuntu bongos in 12.04
[19:47] <ali1234> my dad accidentally booted into ubuntu one time and then asked me "what's umbongo tv?"
[19:47] <mungbean> :D
[19:48] <mungbean> they drink it in the congo
[19:48] <mungbean> ah, dconf-editor has a setting, maybe 3rd time lucky
[19:59] <diddledan> umbongo tv? where'd the tv come from?
[20:03] <diddledan> I love that about mikrotik software/hardware - lose your router ip and you can still admin it via mac address to reconfigure it's ip to something known (provided you're on the same L2)
[20:04] <diddledan> added benefit is it stays connected even when your local IP changes, such as when you're fiddling
[20:05] <diddledan> and we all know what sysadmins are like for fiddling (I'm no exception there!)
[20:06] <ali1234> i dunno
[20:07] <shauno> they're still problems?  ipv6 solves that for me
[20:07] <ali1234> you can do the mac trick on any router
[20:08] <ali1234> you have to know it's subnet though
[20:09] <AlanBell> how does that work then?
[20:09] <diddledan> knowing the subnet isn't a given
[20:09] <ali1234> you create a fake entry in the arp table for a made up IP, then anything you send to that IP will go to the router's MAC
[20:10] <ali1234> you won't get any packets back though if the subnet is wrong, because the router will just get "no route to host" when it tries to reply
[20:10] <diddledan> mikrotik works without knowing anything about the device other than it's mac
[20:11] <ali1234> most likely it has a special service which broadcasts the router address when it receives a special packet
[20:11] <diddledan> how would that work when I'm in a different subnet tho?
[20:11] <ali1234> because when you're in a different subnet you can send a packet to the router by arp spoofing
[20:11] <ali1234> you just can't receive anything back
[20:12] <ali1234> so the router gets the packet and sends a broadcast packet
[20:13] <shauno> pretty much the same as dhcp, but in reverse order.  you broadcast the answer instead of the question
[20:14] <diddledan> hmm
[20:14] <ali1234> yeah. needs special software on the router, but it's trivial to implement
[20:14] <ali1234> there are other tricks you can use if you don't have that
[20:14] <diddledan> they totally need to implement that kind of feature into ssh(d)
[20:14] <ali1234> why sshd?
[20:15] <diddledan> because most equipment these days has an sshd installed so if you lose a device you will still be able to ssh to it
[20:16] <diddledan> I certainly am not going to advocate using telnet
[20:16] <shauno> I don't get why it's ssh's problem to fix though
[20:18] <diddledan> so who should fix it then?
[20:18] <shauno> well, it's already fixed.  ipv6 link-local addresses + avahi
[20:21] <shauno> ssh is really one of those things that should be left alone to concentrate on what its there for, rather than trying to turn it into a featureset clown car
[20:22] <diddledan> brb, rebooting router
[20:23] <ali1234> "clown car" :D
[20:24] <ali1234> few network devices are completely silent on the network so a good trick is "sudo tcpdump -n -i eth0 ether host aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff" and then reboot it
[20:25] <diddledan> wow, did I reboot so quickly my connection didn't drop?
[20:25] <JethroTroll> Who diddled diddledan?
[20:26] <diddledan> that'll be shauno , JethroTroll
[20:26] <diddledan> he's always diddling me
[20:27] <shauno> yeah I've done that before ali1234.  if I don't know what subnet it thinks it's on, just listen for a 'whohas' and make a good guess
[21:12]  * AlanBell contemplates sitting outside watching for perseids
[21:15] <diddledan> too light here
[21:15] <diddledan> bloody streetlighting


[17:57] <letterrip> is there a way to disable my WLAN hardware switch?
[17:57] <letterrip> it is currently mapped to keycode 246 = XF86WLAN NoSymbol XF86WLAN
[17:57] <letterrip> i try and change its state with rfkill, but that is ignored
[17:59] <TJ-> letterrip: just came in, saw your last 2 messages. having trouble with soft or hard block on wifi? is it an Acer or Asus system?
[17:59] <letterrip> TJ- Sony VAIO
[17:59] <letterrip> hard block
[18:00] <letterrip> it fails intermittently - can be 'fixed' sometimes by pressing on the case
[18:00] <lordcirth_> letterrip, if it's bound to a keycode, could you unbind it in your keymap?
[18:01] <TJ-> which Vaio model? I have one I don't use now but that had the same kind of issue - I had to resolder and/or adjust the physical switch
[18:02] <TJ-> I found if I 'rammed' the switch to the enable position it was fine for a long time but it would eventually disengage and I'd have to repeatedly push it back n forward roughly to get it to re-enagage, so I took it apart and fixed it permanently
[18:02] <letterrip> TJ- VGN-AR320E - i think it is the same as one of hte older Acer/Asus - I could potentially disable the system and fix the physical switch - but if possible would prefer a kernel/software method
[18:02] <TJ-> letterrip: if a hard block is happening there's nothing you can do in software
[18:03] <letterrip> TJ- it is a hardware switch, but I think the kernel can ignore it
[18:03] <letterrip> ie it isn't interrupting the powersupply to the wifi - the kernel just 'knows' it is supposed to turn the wifi off/on
[18:03] <TJ-> letterrip: do you know if on that model the sony-laptop module controls rfkill function?
[18:04] <letterrip> using rfkill doesn't work
[18:06] <TJ-> looking at the kernel's rfkill module, it only has 1 param, master_switch_mode and that only controls the effect of SW_RFKILL_ALL
[18:07] <letterrip> TJ- ah
[18:08] <letterrip> TJ- I've read elsewhere that 'disabling the sony_laptop' module has worked for others to disable the hardware switch
[18:09] <letterrip> on related models
[18:09] <TJ-> sony-laptop.c has a lot of code handling rfkill too so looks like the signals come in via ACPI, where it calls sony_call_snc_handle() to get the switch state
[18:09] <TJ-> letterrip: it might do, yes
[18:09] <TJ-> you may also lose other functionality too
[18:11] <letterrip> ok - will look at the source, and maybe make a local modification
[18:11] <letterrip> thanks for the help
[18:13] <TJ-> letterrip: I did some exhaustive analysis of the ACPI of a range of Vaio models some time back, I'm trying to find where I left it so you can take a look
[18:13] <letterrip> ah cool
[18:27] <TJ-> Grrr... took me ages, had to remember how to map a directory from an old expired domain to a new domain! https://iam.tj/projects/snc/   -- it's analysis of the ACPI methods of a large number of models which we used to develop the sony-laptop module functions
[18:28] <letterrip> TJ- greatly appreciated
[18:28] <TJ-> I'm struggling to remember which method dealt with rfkill... it may have been GWDP
[18:29] <letterrip> k
[18:30] <TJ-> it may also have had some involvement of the methods dealing with extended key scan-code ... I don't have my original notes any more... I was wondering/hoping this data might point to a way to selectively disable hardware kill... but the easy way of course is to try it with sony-laptop unloaded
[18:31] <TJ-> blimey, that brings back memories - those tables were all auto-generated using awk scripts
[18:33] <letterrip> TJ- yeppers
[18:33] <letterrip> thanks for the pointer


[08:54] <ShaneM> Mornin' all
[09:07] <moylan> hey
[09:08] <czajkowski> moylan: hiya
[09:08] <moylan> czajkowski: hope the tooth is sorted soon!
[09:09] <czajkowski> me too
[09:09] <czajkowski> feckin annoying
[09:09] <moylan> constant grinding annoyance.  it amazes how it can drive you bonkers.  hope you have good pain killers.
[09:16] <slashtom> morning czajkowski
[09:16] <slashtom> how is battling the british medical system going?
[09:17] <czajkowski> entertaining
[09:17] <czajkowski> may just give up and go private dentist
[09:18] <slashtom> i thought they were all private dentists in .uk
[09:18] <slashtom> well mostly
[09:18] <czajkowski> nope
[09:18] <czajkowski> most near me are nhs
[09:18] <slashtom> very few NHS and don't expect great service
[09:18] <czajkowski> but cant register with them as dont have nhs number due to mess up at gp services
[09:18] <slashtom> most people in britain use private dentists
[09:18] <moylan> very few nhs dentists though.  queue can be huge from what i heard.
[09:19] <slashtom> but still get your GP registration sorted, as it will be hard getting other medical services without that
[09:19] <czajkowski> yup
[09:19] <czajkowski> I'm registed there but they didnt send the form somwehere
[09:19] <czajkowski> which is the hold up on me having a nhs number
[09:21] <slashtom> hope you're enjoying living in the past ;)
[09:21] <czajkowski> mutters
[09:21] <moylan> slashtom: you haven't dealt with irish system! :-)
[09:21] <czajkowski> soo frustrating
[09:21] <czajkowski> moylan: irish system a lot easier
[09:21] <slashtom> moylan: i go private ;)
[09:21] <czajkowski> moylan: you cna go to any gp
[09:22] <czajkowski> over here I've to show proof of where I live in the area to atten 1 gp
[09:22] <slashtom> and when i did see a GP, i just turned up and paid my €70
[09:22] <moylan> i go private for dentist too.  my dentist is flippin genius.  no pain whatsoever!
[09:22] <slashtom> aye, i have a great eastern european girl to work on my teeth
[09:22] <czajkowski> slashtom: 70 is very steep
[09:22] <czajkowski> usually betweet 45-55
[09:23] <slashtom> it was a weekend iirc
[09:23] <czajkowski> gp in dublin was 45
[09:23] <czajkowski> gp in limerick is 50
[09:23] <czajkowski> slashtom: hh that wuld be why so
[09:23] <slashtom> did you use a gp in dublin 7?
[09:23] <czajkowski> yup
[09:23] <czajkowski> stoney batter
[09:23] <czajkowski> manor street
[09:24] <czajkowski> very nice place
[09:24] <slashtom> any recommendations, for next time i'm ill
[09:24] <czajkowski> yup tis grand very helpful
[09:24] <czajkowski> and good at squeezing folks in
[09:24] <czajkowski> just up past traffic lights on the right hand side
[09:24] <slashtom> dr mullan?
[09:25] <czajkowski> there are a few in there
[09:25] <czajkowski> not sure
[09:25] <slashtom> ah
[09:25] <slashtom> okies
[09:26] <slashtom> we need to wander up that way, and get some fancy beer from the fancy off-licence in stoneybatter
[09:26] <slashtom> british beer, i would add... it's the *only* thing i miss
[09:27]  * slashtom welcomes ebel with a latte
[09:27] <ebel> o/
[09:28] <czajkowski> slashtom: I miss saussages sooo much over here
[09:28] <czajkowski> have found richmond irish ones
[09:28] <czajkowski> but they're no where near as nice as galtee or superquinn ones
[09:28] <moylan> nothing like irish pork sausages!
[09:29] <czajkowski> moylan: EXACTLY
[09:29] <czajkowski> over here they are all friggign full of herbes
[09:29] <czajkowski> so wrong
[09:29] <moylan> the scots do a sausage in a can that is devine though!
[09:31] <moylan> maybe an independent butcher makes proper sozzies.
[09:32] <czajkowski> nope
[09:32] <czajkowski> longer larger all variations of herbs
[09:32] <czajkowski> trust me I've looked
[09:32] <czajkowski> :s
[09:32] <czajkowski> mate is over in March
[09:32] <czajkowski> coming with rashers and saussages
[09:32]  * czajkowski misses Galtee!
[09:33] <moylan> when i was in london in 80s i remember some shops sold galtee products. weren't cheap though.  large irish market.
[09:33] <ebel> they probably sell polish sausages now :P
[09:33] <ebel> there's bound to be some expat shops.
[09:33] <moylan> every time we traveled there, went with box of tayto under arm too! :-)
[09:34] <czajkowski> I dont mind the crisps
[09:34] <czajkowski> decent enough selection
[09:34] <czajkowski> but damn it I just want my bacon!!!
[09:34] <ebel> we're still sending boxes of taytos to australia, even though they moved out 15 years ago
[09:34] <moylan> not a fan of british crisps.  heard that even china now has started importing irish food.
[09:35] <czajkowski> kettle crisps yummy
[09:35] <ebel> ireland is one of the largest exporters of beef etc
[09:35] <ShaneM> I haven't had breakfast yet!  Is no one actively updating it anymore? I'm pretty sure this has been asked before....
[09:37] <czajkowski> slashtom: ask in #linux on irc.linux.ie
[09:37] <czajkowski> :)
[09:37] <czajkowski> ShaneM: ^^^^^^6
[09:37] <ebel> ShaneM: what do you mean exactly?
[09:37] <ShaneM> Yerrrrr,will drop in later.
[09:37] <ebel> mailing list is a good place to ask
[09:37] <moylan> there are enough people travelling to the uk that it should be easy to arrange a constant delivery line.  smuggling sausages to the uk.  i remember in the 70s a relative who flew to the states with most of a pig in her luggage.
[09:37] <ShaneM> ebel: Yeah the mailing list is active, but the site looks derelict.
[09:38] <slashtom> that's geek UI design
[09:38] <ShaneM> linux.ie would be the first place that new users go in ireland and they find a site that looks dead. ... doesn't really make sense to me @_@
[09:39] <czajkowski> ShaneM: it's been under revew for some time, but they like it that basic
[09:39] <ShaneM> czajkowskI: Yeah I remember someone mentioning it before.
[09:39] <ShaneM> Just wondered what the situation was with it.
[09:48] <ShaneM> czajkowski: Did you find someone good for that job in the end? :)
[09:50] <czajkowski> ShaneM: we hired about 4 I think
[09:50] <czajkowski> still hoping to hire more in a few months time for our new offices
[09:50] <ShaneM> Excellent :)
[09:52] <ShaneM> ....I ask someone what software packages they want me to install to show them how to use them and they ask me to install powerpoint....
[09:53] <ShaneM> That's the definition of bad communication right there.
[09:55] <moylan> shanem: no biggie.  just ask for them to pay for the licence _or_ give them libre office for free.  works 90% of the time i encounter that.
[09:57] <czajkowski> ShaneM: problem is people associate a word with an item
[09:57] <czajkowski> like one hoovers things
[09:57] <czajkowski> when in reality you vaccum someting
[09:57] <czajkowski> it's a term they associate something with
[09:57] <ebel> Install LibreOffice, tell them that's the name for Powerpoint in Ubuntu :P
[09:58] <ShaneM> I thought I was being clear when I said "What dev libraries do you want me to bring". xD
[09:58] <ebel> Most people don't think "Powerpoint = that software from MS." they think "Powerpoint = the thing that lets me make slides and presentations"
[09:58] <moylan> the quick guide to user knowledge level is 'what browser do they use?'
[09:59] <ebel> moylan: "I use the Googles"
[09:59] <moylan> then give them a yoyo and install libre office without informing them! :-)
[10:00] <ebel> Deffo,
[10:00] <ebel> Most people don't know what 'presentation software' is. they will say "powerpoint" instead.
[10:01] <ebel> Mostly they don't want "MS Powerpoint", they want "Some Presentation Software"
[10:01] <moylan> most of my customers don't know powerpoint, they just tknow that there are emails that can't be opened.
[11:02] <moynihan> not strictly on topic, but I'm finding it a wee bit difficult to find answers on this
[11:02] <moynihan> does anyone know if the jokosher project is dead?
[11:02] <ebel> 'ello moynihan
[11:03] <ebel> moynihan: if you hadn't cut off your hair, you'd know this :P
[11:03] <ebel> moynihan: though about jokosher I dunno
[11:03] <ebel> (I really should !CoC myself for that comment though)
[11:03] <ebel> !coc | ebel
[11:07] <ebel> moynihan: the launchpad code repositoty (https://code.launchpad.net/~jokosher-code/jokosher/main) shows some activity this year... but not a lot
[11:09] <moynihan> yea any of the contact links on the site are broken
[11:10] <ebel> yeah i see some broken links aswell
[11:10] <moynihan> I havent read the CoC, but I'm assuming swearing in here wont be hugely well received
[11:10] <ebel> !coc
[11:11] <moynihan> hence the fact I didnt reply to your comment on my appearance :)
[11:11] <ebel> moynihan: basically "don't be mean and be helpful" (my initial comment was *ahem* less than helpful :) )
[11:11] <ebel> not all software needs to be actively developed all the time. just cause something hasn't been updated in 5 years doesn't mean it's useless.
[11:12] <moynihan> yea slighty
[11:12] <moynihan> well tbh i was kinda hopin to get involved and help em out
[11:12] <ebel> jokosher might work fine for what you or others need. that's the more relevant question...
[11:12] <moynihan> (incidentally wouldnt it have been funny if I wasnt who you thought I was)
[11:13] <ebel> I did check that it was you, just to make sure :P
[11:13] <ebel> well you can still get involved, even if it is 'dead'
[11:14] <ebel> in fact it can be a good learning experience. there's a lot to do, and bound to be ex-active-developers you can ask for help.
[11:15] <moynihan> yea, problem is that literally every page on the site with info on what they're lookin for, including their docs wiki is dead...
[11:16] <ebel> look at the outstanding bugs?
[11:16] <ebel> Start using it yourself and see what you wished it did?
[11:18] <moynihan> well i do use it, tbh as well you know I'm not much of a coder, so i was kinda hopin to do some grunt work as a learning experience
[11:18] <moynihan> suppose open bugs're the way to go
[11:18] <tdr112> morning
[11:31] <moynihan> on the subject of actually contributing, is there anything the loco team needs that I can help out with
[11:32] <moynihan> ?
[11:32] <ebel> :)
[11:33] <czajkowski> are ubuntu-ie holding a bug jam this year ?
[11:33] <ebel> everything from running and organising events, to working on our website, to contributing to the loco directory, etc.
[11:33] <ebel> czajkowski: when's it on?
[11:33] <czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/567/detail/
[11:38] <ebel> hmmm
[11:41] <ebel> we haven't anything planned
[11:42]  * ebel adds to the irc meeting
[11:43] <ebel> our meetings have been taking a while recently
[11:47] <ebel> reminds me of the People's Front of Judea always having meetings :)
[11:48] <moynihan> SPLITTER
[13:55]  * slashtom sees the agenda for tomorrow's meeting
[13:55] <slashtom> 3 items are the same thing!
[13:55] <slashtom> regarding the 11.04 discs
[13:56] <ebel> hehehe
[13:56] <ebel> yes more or less
[13:57] <ebel> I'll edit it to consilidate it
[13:57] <slashtom> thanks ebel
[13:58] <ebel> Merged!
[20:29] <Belserusk> Hi guys. Does Zeitgeist automatically update after each reboot or login?
[20:43] <lau1> evening all
[21:54] <czajkowski> davem: who is the current president of skynet
[21:58] <davem> marque (ogami)
[22:01] <czajkowski> thanks


[08:55] <Bernardo> good morning
[06:00] <hjmf> @schedule
[06:00] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 14 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 19:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 22:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 15:00: Kernel Team
[06:41] <Ubulette> hello
[06:48] <Jazzva> Hello Ubulette...
[07:03] <Jazzva> Hmm, I would need some help...
[07:03] <Ubulette> about ?
[07:03] <Jazzva> I have a label element inside one XUL overlay that is displayed in Add-ons window...
[07:04] <Jazzva> What attribute should I use if I want to call a function when Add-ons window opens...
[07:04] <Jazzva> Something like onload="function();"
[07:04] <Ubulette> hm, sorry, I don't know much about xul
[07:05] <Ubulette> asac should be able to answer
[07:05] <Jazzva> HTML and JavaScript? :)
[07:05] <Ubulette> yes
[07:05] <Jazzva> I suppose, but he's not around...
[07:06] <Jazzva> Hmm, ok... what would you use in <label> to call a function when it's loaded?
[07:06] <Jazzva> Inside HTML...
[07:06] <Jazzva> Inside=In
[07:07] <Ubulette> what about <label oncommand="yoursub()"> .
[07:07] <Jazzva> Ok, I'll give it a try :). Thanks
[07:14] <Jazzva> Hmm, not working... Off to try some other attributes :)...
[07:16] <Ubulette> onload didn't work ?
[07:17] <Jazzva> Nope... I read on MDC that it was meant for page load,  but I gave it a try anyway. Nothing...
[07:21] <Ubulette> hmm, they have events called onAddonUpdateStarted and onAddonUpdateEnded
[07:22] <Ubulette> onAddonSelect
[07:24] <Jazzva> Do you ae the link?
[07:26] <Jazzva> *have
[07:26] <Ubulette> just reading FF3 sources
[07:27] <Jazzva> Oh... ok :)
[07:28] <Ubulette> http://www.xulplanet.com/references/xpcomref/ifaces/nsIExtensionManager.html
[07:29] <Ubulette> http://www.xulplanet.com/references/xpcomref/group_ExtensionsandUpdate.html
[07:29] <Jazzva> Thanks, I'll take a look now :)
[07:31] <Ubulette> damn, I need to restart X, gutsy killed my gnome
[07:42] <Jazzva> Ubulette: Welcome back
[07:42] <Ubulette> :)
[07:42] <Ubulette> got tons of crashes
[07:42] <Jazzva> Ouch...
[07:42] <Ubulette> tracker-extract
[07:43] <Ubulette> kind of new in gutsy
[07:43] <Jazzva> And that is? :)
[07:43] <Jazzva> t-e, not gutsy :)
[07:43] <Ubulette> imho, too young to enter gutsy by default
[07:43] <Ubulette> tracker-extract - extract metadata from file and display them.
[07:44] <Ubulette> think it works with trackerd
[07:44] <Jazzva> Uh-huh...
[07:44] <Ubulette> used by nautilus
[07:44] <Ubulette> for instant searches
[07:44] <Ubulette> always uptodate
[07:45] <Jazzva> Hm, I think I read about it..
[07:46] <Jazzva> Well, gotta go now... See you later.
[07:46] <Ubulette> see you
[08:58] <Ubulette> mozilla bug 390451
[08:59] <ubotu> Mozilla bug 390451 in Libraries "Remembered passwords lost when changing Master Password" [Critical,New]  http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=390451
[11:29] <Jazzva> Good evening...
[11:50] <asac> hi
[11:50] <Jazzva> Hello asac...
[11:50] <Ubulette> hi
[11:50] <asac> hi
[11:50] <Jazzva> And Ubulette...
[11:51] <asac> sorry for the offline thing this we ... famliy calls ;)
[11:51] <Ubulette> np
[11:51] <Jazzva> No prob...
[11:51] <Jazzva> asac: If you have some free time now I would like to go over some things in Ubufox...
[11:52] <asac> Jazzva: well ... just ask
[11:52] <asac> i am almost in bed-mode though
[11:52] <Jazzva> Also, there's a debdiff attached for one of those two dep bugs: bug131410
[11:53] <asac> bug 131410
[11:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131410 in thunderbird-quickfile "[gutsy]  Doesn't depend on thunderbird" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131410
[11:53] <Jazzva> ubotu doesn't like me... damn :).
[11:53] <asac> i think it doesn't like your syntax ;)
[11:53] <Jazzva> Or that :).
[11:54] <Jazzva> I made a function which will test if /usr/bin/g-a-i is present, if it isn't it setts the hidden attribute of label to "true"...
[11:54] <Jazzva> And it works... Tested with <label id="..." ... onfocus="testBlabla();">
[11:55] <Jazzva> When g-a-i is uninstalled then the label "Get Ubuntu addons" dissapear, which is cool :)
[11:55] <Jazzva> Now, is there an event handler that will do that on window open?
[11:55] <Jazzva> I have tried with onload, but it works with window and image tag :/...
[11:56] <asac> Jazzva: can't you just insert the script?
[11:56] <Jazzva> Well, then I get the error...
[11:56] <asac> i mean at the end of the tag or after it?
[11:56] <asac> or is the tag not yet resolvable at that point?
[11:56] <Jazzva> labelGetUbuntu has no properties
[11:56] <asac> he?
[11:56] <asac> can you show the diff?
[11:57] <Jazzva> labelGetUbuntu is label which I fetch with getElementById, so I think it's still not resolvable
[11:57] <asac> (what you made so far)
[11:57] <Jazzva> Sure thing... just a sec...
[11:59] <Jazzva> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33512/
[12:00] <Jazzva> The first is the function which works...
[12:00] <Jazzva> And then I tried with script again and it gives me the "varible_name has no properties"
[12:03] <asac> Overlays do not have an onload event. To have initialization code in an overlay, place it directly in a script outside of a function. This is commonly used to call the addEventListener method to listen to the load event for the window which does not fire until the master window and all overlays are applied.
[12:03] <asac> http://www.xulplanet.com/references/elemref/ref_overlay.html
[12:03] <asac> Jazzva: so ... addEventListener for load event
[12:04] <Jazzva> Ok... thanks :)
[12:07] <Ubulette> asac, see you didn't push a7-u4
[12:08] <Ubulette> don't do it, i'll fix a few things 1st
[12:08] <Ubulette> starting from my #51
[12:12] <Ubulette> damn, spent 20 min on a nasty /bin/sh bug (bash vs dash)
[12:15] <asac> Ubulette: ?
[12:15] <Ubulette> yes?
[12:16] <asac> what needs a fix?
[12:16] <Ubulette> mozilla bug 390451
[12:16] <ubotu> Mozilla bug 390451 in Libraries "Remembered passwords lost when changing Master Password" [Critical,New]  http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=390451
[12:16] <Ubulette> they disabled the ui of the master password just before a7
[12:17] <Ubulette> as there was a nasty bug
[12:17] <Ubulette> fixed in cvs
[12:17] <Ubulette> now
[12:17] <Ubulette> so I can port the fix and re-enable the ui
[12:17] <Ubulette> easy
[12:17] <asac> well ... but why do we need to fix this in a7?
[12:17] <asac> i mean lets just bring -trunk package in shape ... and wait for beta1
[12:17] <Ubulette> because people with master passwords are doomed
[12:18] <asac> do what you do ... but please don't patch things worse ;)
[12:18] <Ubulette> sure
[12:18] <asac> let me know when ready ... i can upload tomorrow
[12:18] <asac> then i ahve to concentrate on something else for the rest of the week
[12:19] <Ubulette> ok. I'll probably either work on trunk or on xulrunner next week
[12:19] <Ubulette> this week
[12:19] <asac> cool
[12:24] <Ubulette> is trunk pushed ?


[03:12] <ian_001> if i wanted to build mythtv from source would i be best to get the latest from myths repo or should i use source used to build the latest mythbuntu?
[03:22] <hardlined> I just installed mythbuntu 8.04.1 with an analog tv attached. The picture is off to the right a little bit, and xrandr doesn't seem to be working, any ideas how I can move the screen over a bit?
[03:27] <hardlined> only seems to happen with the proprietary nvidia driver, nv works fine
[03:59] <UnNaturalHigh> is there a mythbuntu release for the ps3?
[04:04] <XJman> Hi, I'm attempting to run a file server. We have one pc that will feed the video to our Home theater system directly, and of course the file server to hold the massive amount of data I've got
[04:04] <XJman> I also would like to use the desktop as a regular pc. Will I be able to do that while streaming video to another pc over gigabit ethernet/
[04:05] <tgm4883_laptop> XJman, I suppose
[04:05] <joat> i don't have any trouble with other low bandwidth stuff...
[04:06] <tgm4883_laptop> UnNaturalHigh, no
[04:06] <joat> with another app that wants to use a sizeable chunk of bandwith the video playback gets a little jittery
[04:06] <tgm4883_laptop> UnNaturalHigh, although you could see if there are the packages in the repo for it, you could install regular Ubuntu
[04:06] <joat> then again, I'm usually pushing that video over 802.11g
[04:07] <UnNaturalHigh> tgm4883_laptop, thanks
[04:07] <tgm4883_laptop> joat, SD should be fine over G
[04:07] <joat> with gigabit, the bottleneck probably won't be the network
[04:07] <joat> XJman was asking if he could use his box for other things while streaming
[04:07] <tgm4883_laptop> ah
[04:08] <tgm4883_laptop> i was confused, as he has left
[04:08] <joat> XJman, the answer is "probably yes" as long as you don't have to do any transcoding
[04:08] <tgm4883_laptop> joat, again, he is not here anymore
[04:09] <joat> ah
[04:09] <joat> apologies!
[04:09] <tgm4883_laptop> np
[04:15] <bmathis> i noticed on my PS3 that I can browse my myth recordings... while doing that I am able to watch shows that I didnt record but watched live instead. Is there anyway to flush that from my system?
[04:35] <MythbuntuGuest15> hi guys
[04:36] <tgm4883_laptop> !ask
[04:36] <Zinn> Please don't ask if anyone is around or if it is alright to ask a question.  Many people check back periodically and may answer your question when they see it.  IRC is not normally an instant fix so check back often for an answer.
[04:37] <MythbuntuGuest15> Have problem getting Audio?
[04:37] <MythbuntuGuest15> I have VLC media Player and no Audio
[05:37] <MythbuntuGuest48> so close.... Diskless frontend boots up and loads interface but cannot find content.  /var/lib/mythtv/ exisist but no content
[05:40] <MythbuntuGuest48> where do I add my mount points for content?
[06:01] <Mr_Bones_> Just curious.... why isn't the user created during the mythbuntu install process made to already be in the mythtv group.  That seems like an obvious step to increase the usability of the install.
[06:19] <Mr_Bones_> if anyone in here is responsible for https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV/Install/Troubleshooting, under the root@localhost section, the last item recommends running /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt, which isn't likely to work.
[07:02] <MrChilly0> what's up all
[07:03] <MrChilly0> just installed..watching tv on my lappy...but instead of 4:3 I have 2 views of the same channel, in the same window...one on top of the other...did I miss something in the setup?
[07:04] <MrChilly0> if I change channels..as soon as the number appears in the corner the screen goes to just one view, but then back to 2 when the channel changes
[07:16] <darthanubis> how does one start mythzmserver as a service?
[09:25] <darthanubis> when I back out of a recording I don't get the option to remember location or delete?
[09:25] <darthanubis> I forget where that is?
[09:47] <doje> hi all, how do i enable visualizations ?
[09:48] <doje> all I seem to have is "blank"
[09:48] <doje> does gforce work ?
[19:37] <MythbuntuGuest86> .
[19:38] <laga> ..
[19:43] <MythbuntuGuest86> I am setting up a diskless front end, I get the error cound not connect to the master backend server -- is it running/  the ip is correct in the general settings and in the control center the database connection test ok
[19:43] <MythbuntuGuest86> and iders
[19:57] <MythbuntuGuest86> where is this set 2008-07-26 12:42:30.257 Connecting to backend server: localhost:6543 (try 1 of 5)
[20:07] <MythbuntuGuest86> .
[20:21] <MythbuntuGuest64> .
[20:25] <tgm4883_laptop> ..
[20:31] <MythbuntuGuest64> when front end boots it shows error connecting to localhost.  is that information pulled from the backend when the image is built for the frontend?  thanks
[20:32] <MythbuntuGuest64> is the fix as easy as changing localhost in the back end and rebuilt the frontend image?
[20:33] <tgm4883_laptop> so i can assume that you are using diskless then?
[20:36] <MythbuntuGuest64> correct
[21:33] <c3rb3rus5> 2 questions...
[21:34] <c3rb3rus5> 1) is there an easier way of importing lots of previously native archivedrecording other then one by one?
[21:35] <c3rb3rus5> and a follow up to that - if i have the native exported files on a remote drive and i want to import them in to the local machine do i copy them over first, then import, or just import straight from the network drive
[21:36] <c3rb3rus5> and 2) why would my channel icon download button be greyed out?
[21:45] <JoshEngleman> I am curious as to how I can remove the commercials from the TV I have recorded. I have edited the stream and flagged the commercials. I want to take out the commercials and have the file be in a format where it can be placed on a DVD once i have enough episodes to fill the DVD. If anyone can help me, that would be great as I cant seem to figure out based on reading the Wiki
[21:56] <MythbuntuGuest27> Hi, I have serveral questions 1) my video looks distored when I go to watch TV. Even the info boxes are distorted. However, the mythbuntu interface is fine 2) I am having trouble installing MythStreamTV. It cant find a template directory in the /var/www/mythweb directory. My goal is to broadcast my TV over the internet so I can watch it at another location. Thx Joseph
[22:07] <Seeker`> JoshEngleman: If the episode has a "cut list" (i.e. the commercials have been flagged) they can be automatically be stripped out when you burn them to DVD using the archive function
[22:08] <laga> if you have flagged the commercials *manually* - at least you need to load the commercial list into the cut list
[22:12] <c3rb3rus5> this does not seem right:
[22:12] <c3rb3rus5> 2008-07-26 17:08:56.479 copying from /var/lib/mythtv/recordings/2039_20080311220000.mpg
[22:12] <c3rb3rus5> 2008-07-26 17:08:56.479 to /2039_20080311220000.mpg
[22:12] <c3rb3rus5> i dont have any dir in mytharchive settings set to /
[22:13] <c3rb3rus5> and its failing because there are not sufficient permissions to copy the file...
[22:13] <sebrock> in which file is the menu "Watch recordings" in?
[22:33] <JoshEngleman> Seeker`: sorry for not responding to your reply sooner. basically as long as i have the cut list set up, when i am ready to burn the DVD, it will take out all of the commercials for me. i dont have to do anythign else? just want to make sure im understanding you correctly
[22:38] <c3rb3rus5> is there any way to do a batch import?
[22:52] <MythbuntuGuest89> diskless frontend shows "Connecting to backend server: localhost:6543 (try 1 of 5)"  gui shows, "could not connect to the master backend--is it running?
[22:52] <Seeker`> JoshEngleman: Yeah, there is a option in the archive option that obeys the cut list
[22:53] <MythbuntuGuest89> You probably should modify the Master Server,  where are is this modification? db connection tests fine
[22:53] <MythbuntuGuest89> frontend also shows "Connecting to backend server: localhost:6543"\
[22:54] <laga> MythbuntuGuest89: in mythbuntu-control-centre
[22:55] <laga> oh
[22:55] <laga> wait
[22:55] <laga> you can modify that in mythtv-setup
[23:09] <yalu> I'm installing mythbuntu from the live cd, doing mythsetup now; and I'm stuck. I see the kernel recognises my nova-t usb dvb-t tuner, but in mythtv-setup when I select "dvb dtv tv-card" it says: "informatie over kaart #0 kon niet" (information about card #0 could not).
[23:09] <yalu> the font is too big to display the entire message
[23:09] <yalu> I have a dvb/adapter0 file in /dev
[23:21]  * yalu in sleep mode. feel free to highlight.


[09:36] <lourot> o/ drawing your attention to this easy PR, thanks! (or is there a dedicated IRC channel for charm-tools maybe?) https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/pull/589
[09:52] <stickupkid> manadart, https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/12403
[09:54] <manadart> stickupkid: Looking
[10:02] <stickupkid> manadart, done
[11:58] <stickupkid> manadart, thoughts on this bad boy https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/12404
[15:30] <magicaltrout> hello folks, petevg[m] etc.... Kubernetes charms... is there a half decent demo that shows relations and stuff doing their thing thats reasonably current?
[16:08] <petevg[m]> @magi
[16:09] <petevg[m]> magicaltrout: (whoops. Not used to the client I'm using for IRC). We're working on some new tutorials that showcase exactly that.
[16:09] <petevg[m]> We're using prometheus and grafana, though they're in active development, and there's occaisonal breakage.
[16:12] <petevg[m]> magicaltrout: the following invocation should work (though I have to poke people about getting the dashboard password out of the k8s version of grafana):
[16:12] <petevg[m]> "juju deploy cs:~charmcraft/prometheus-0; juju deploy cs:~charmcraft/grafana-0; juju relate prometheus grafana
[16:29] <stickupkid> manadart, one for you https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/12271 - it's been in a pending state, but finished it so I don't have to care about it again
[16:35] <magicaltrout> thanks petevg[m]
[16:35] <magicaltrout> told the JPL open source crew I'd give them a demo next week and realised I've not touched k8s charms since the operator stuff came in
[16:36] <magicaltrout> working on Zookeeper, Solr and a web crawler we work on, so hopefully have something half demoable by mid next week but was looking for something else just in case
[16:36] <magicaltrout> so that should work
[16:37] <magicaltrout> half the problem with charmhub.io since there aren't any real tutorials is the upstream links to repo's have gone so I've been madly googling stuff trying to find charms with patterns I can rob
[16:38] <magicaltrout> I found stub's postgres charm which looks pretty well baked via some random link on a forum via a google search
[16:38] <magicaltrout> it isn't easy! ;)


[00:07] <mup> PR snapcraft#968 opened: sources: refactor subversion source into module <Created by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/968>
[00:13] <mup> PR snapcraft#969 opened: sources: refactor tar source into module <Created by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/969>
[00:16] <mup> PR snapcraft#970 opened: sources: refactor zip source into module <Created by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/970>
[00:34] <mup> PR snapd#2274 closed: interfaces: use sysd.{Disable,Stop} instead of sysd.DisableNow() <Created by mvo5> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2274>
[00:58] <mup> PR snapd#2345 closed: many: tweak devmode and jailmode capitalisation <Created by zyga> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2345>
[01:27] <barry> pedronis: thanks
[01:58] <mup> PR snapcraft#962 closed: sources: refactor bazaar source into module <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/962>
[03:25] <mup> PR snapcraft#963 closed: sources: refactor deb source into module <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/963>
[04:57] <luk3yx> Is this the best place to ask a snappy playpen question?
[05:01] <mup> PR snapcraft#971 opened: Fix integration tests in armhf <Created by elopio> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/971>
[06:55] <mup> PR snapd#2472 closed: tests: update custom core snap with the freshly build snap-confine <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2472>
[07:06] <mup> PR snapd#2459 closed: interfaces/builtin: add iio interface <Created by morphis> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2459>
[07:07] <mup> PR snapd#2452 closed: interfaces/builtin: fix pulseaudio apparmor rules <Created by bergotorino> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2452>
[07:27] <mup> PR snapd#2474 opened: Revert "interfaces: add new boot-config interface" <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2474>
[07:52] <dholbach> hey hey
[08:27] <kalikiana_> sliff
[08:57] <mup> PR snapd#2468 closed: tests: add debug output to see why autopkgtests are failing <Blocked> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2468>
[09:55] <mup> PR snapd#2475 opened: tests: nested image testing <Created by fgimenez> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2475>
[10:17] <mup> Bug #1649837 opened: Can remove required-snaps <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1649837>
[10:18] <mup> PR snapd#2450 closed: interfaces: support network namespaces via 'ip netns' in network-control (LP: #1624675) <Created by jdstrand> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2450>
[10:20] <mup> Bug #1649839 opened: unknown snap and snapd version when image created via ubuntu-image <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1649839>
[10:23] <mup> Bug #1649840 opened: unknown keys in model assertion are silently ignored <Snappy:New> <Ubuntu Image:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1649840>
[10:37] <mup> PR snapd#2438 closed: release: 2.18.1 <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2438>
[10:52] <mup> PR snapd#2476 opened: overlord/snapstate: fixing the placement/grouping of some functions <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2476>
[11:11] <mup> PR snapcraft#961 closed: sources: refactor local source into module <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/961>
[11:42] <mup> Bug #1488887 changed: porting documentation needs adjustment for new uboot.env setup <snap-docs> <Snappy:Invalid by ogra> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488887>
[11:45] <mup> Bug #1595581 changed: Snappy meta guide issues <snap-docs> <Ubuntu Developer Portal:Fix Released> <Snappy:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1595581>
[11:48] <mup> Bug #1611639 changed: docs/package-names.md is out of sync with the rest of the project <snap-docs> <Snappy:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611639>
[11:51] <mup> Bug #1637093 changed: docs/config.md needs an update <snap-docs> <Snappy:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637093>
[12:03] <mup> PR snapd#2476 closed: overlord/snapstate: fixing the placement/grouping of some functions <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2476>
[12:18] <ondra> ogra_ ping
[12:18] <ogra_> ondra, yo
[12:19] <ondra> ogra_ hey, are we hosting uboot somewhere or we are using https://github.com/hallor/u-boot directly with our patch on top?
[12:19] <ogra_> ondra, nope ...
[12:19] <ondra> ogra_ ha, nope to which part? :P
[12:20] <ondra> ogra_ say I want to compile u-boot for pi3 myself, where do I get code?
[12:20] <ogra_> ondra, from upstream and then you add the patch from the gadget tree
[12:20] <ondra> ogra_ and upstream is where?
[12:20] <ogra_> i just noticed we are missing said patch for the dragonboard in our tree
[12:21] <ogra_> ondra, denx.de
[12:21] <ogra_> upstream uboot
[12:21] <ogra_> for dragonboard we indeed used the above tree (since it has never been submitted upstream)
[12:21] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23628425/ is the patch
[12:22] <ogra_> the pi's and beaglebone just use the upstream tree
[12:23] <ondra> ogra_ cool
[12:23] <ondra> ogra_ yeah I have here dragonboard, and was not sure if we use same tree there or not
[12:23] <ondra> ogra_ so http://git.denx.de/ + patch from gadget for pi3 it is
[12:24] <ogra_> we might be a commit behind or so on the db ... (the binary worked and we had no bugs so it wasnt further updated)
[12:24] <ogra_> ondra, yeah
[12:25] <ondra> ogra_ thank you mister :)
[12:25] <ogra_> np :)
[13:41] <Chipaca> ogra_, I think https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1620559 is fix released; can you confirm?
[13:41] <mup> Bug #1620559: /etc/resolv.conf is empty on snappy <hw-specific> <verification-done> <Snappy:New> <systemd (Ubuntu):Fix Released> <systemd (Ubuntu Xenial):Fix Released by pitti> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1620559>
[13:53] <mup> PR snapcraft#972 opened: Add a checklist in the pull request template <Created by elopio> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/972>
[14:15] <niemeyer> jdstrand: ping
[14:18] <mup> PR snapd#2477 opened: interfaces/builtin/repowerd: First cut at repowerd interface <Created by afrantzis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2477>
[14:23] <mup> PR snapcraft#964 closed: sources: refactor git source into module <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/964>
[14:23] <jdstrand> niemeyer: hi!
[14:27] <jdstrand> niemeyer: if you are asking about James' feedback, I incorporated GetConnectionCredentials and responded to the other comments
[14:27] <jdstrand> niemeyer: (James' comments in https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1613 that is)
[14:27] <mup> PR snapd#1613: interfaces/builtin: add dbus interface (LP: #1590679) <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1613>
[14:34] <r2geo> question on ubuntu core: is there a way to run "lsusb" in bash? -bash: lsusb: command not found
[14:38] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Hey
[14:38] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Yeah, James feedback
[14:38] <niemeyer> jdstrand: What do you think of making "path" explicit?
[14:38] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Any reason not to?
[14:40] <jdstrand> niemeyer: I'd prefer not to keep adding to this. it has been lingering for so long. I mean, I can, but there is so much more that is needed for supporting complex services
[14:41] <jdstrand> niemeyer: he as asking for multiple paths and interfaces pur well-known name as well. we don't even have session services yet
[14:41] <jdstrand> pur?
[14:42] <jdstrand> per*
[14:42] <jdstrand> niemeyer: not sure if you read my response
[14:42] <jdstrand> (in the PR to James)
[14:48] <ogra_> Chipaca, bug updated ...
[14:49] <ogra_> (thanks for the pointer)
[14:49] <Chipaca> ogra_, incompletely fix released \o/
[14:49] <Chipaca> :-)
[14:49] <ogra_> haha
[14:49] <mup> Bug #1620559 changed: /etc/resolv.conf is empty on snappy <hw-specific> <verification-done> <Snappy:Fix Released> <systemd (Ubuntu):Fix Released> <systemd (Ubuntu Xenial):Fix Released by pitti> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1620559>
[14:53] <roadmr> hello folks, is there a version of snapd that works on trusty? even if it's from a PPA, that would fit my needs
[14:54] <ogra_> tvoss, ^^^^
[14:57] <niemeyer> jdstrand: I didn't.. will get back in this after lunch
[15:00] <tvoss> roadmr: yup, let me hand you instructions
[15:00] <roadmr> tvoss: great, thanks! (yes, perfectly happy to read up existing material)
[15:03] <mup> Issue snapd#2478 opened: Just testing <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/issue/2478>
[15:04] <jdstrand> niemeyer: ok, note I have an appt in 45 minutes for a couple of hours and then will be back
[15:22] <elfgoh> ogra_: how are you testing your BBB image?
[15:22] <ogra_> elfgoh, i install it on an SD, install htop to test snap interfaces and install the classic snap to test the classic functionallity usually
[15:23] <elfgoh> I see. So you test on an actual device?
[15:23] <ogra_> yes
[15:23] <elfgoh> If I wanna do it as a vm or something, instead of a physical device is it possible?
[15:24] <ogra_> not sure, does qemu support booting a plain img file ?
[15:24] <ogra_> iirc you need to have kernel and initrd separate for qemu system mode
[15:24] <ogra_> which would break
[15:25] <ogra_> (snappy kind of relies on the partitioning and certain files in certain places ... and it needs to interact with the bootloader)
[15:25] <elfgoh> I see
[15:25] <ogra_> if you can use qemu for BBB arches like kvm that would work, but only then
[15:26] <ogra_> (i.e. just point to the img file and have that boot)
[15:27] <elfgoh> So if I use KVM, it will work? Even though the host OS will not be arm?
[15:27] <ogra_> i dont think so ... kvm cant boot arm images afaik
[15:27] <ogra_> (though perhaps i'm not up to date)
[15:29] <ogra_> i meant above is "if you can use qemu *like* kvm" ... which meant just pointing to the img ... but i dont think thats possible)
[15:31] <elfgoh> ogra_, I think you are probably right
[15:31] <elfgoh> ogra_, then in the development of snaps for BBB, i am guessing it is best to build it on the BBB itself, instead of on say a linux vm running amd64?
[15:32] <ogra_> you can use a qemu-user-static chroot or an lxd container i suppose ...
[15:33] <ogra_> i.e. not a full BBB emulation ... but only the armhf userspace
[15:34] <ogra_> note that wont work for everything (i.e. i dont think you can compile mono apps) but for most
[15:40] <mup> PR snapd#2479 opened: many: implement snap unalias using snapstate.Unalias <Critical> <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2479>
[15:46] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Read your response.. I'm concerned with ignoring jamesh's feedback on it
[15:47] <niemeyer> @jdstrand Yes, we want to unblock people to use that interface, and yes it's fine to implement the solution partially and evolve it over time.. but jamesh's feedback points out precisely that there may be cases for those very applications that are not being correctly handled, and I don't see the path forward yet
[15:47] <nothal> niemeyer: No such command!
[15:49] <niemeyer> jdstrand: He points out that the same interface may be published under several different well known names, and he also points out that GetProperty is in a separate interface.. we didn't discuss any of those cases yet
[15:50] <niemeyer> GetProperty is a pretty concerning problem, for example, because it lives in its own separate interface.. how can we confine it properly?
[16:01] <mup> PR snapd#2480 opened: many: prepare landing on trusty <Created by vosst> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2480>
[16:02] <mup> Bug #1649934 opened: USB Auto-mount for assertion import fails <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1649934>
[16:02] <mup> PR snapd#2481 opened: osutil: fix unit tests to pass on OS X <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2481>
[16:06] <mup> Issue snapd#2478 closed: Just testing <Created by zyga> <Closed by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/issue/2478>
[16:19] <mup> PR snapd#2481 closed: osutil: fix unit tests to pass on OS X <Created by zyga> <Closed by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2481>
[16:23] <mup> PR snapcraft#965 closed: sources: refactor mercurial source into module <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/965>
[16:31] <mup> PR snapd#2482 opened: store: retry auth-related requests <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2482>
[16:41] <mup> PR snapd#2483 opened: store: use mocked retry strategy to make store tests faster <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2483>
[16:49] <mup> Issue snapd#2484 opened: Support removing all unused revisions <Created by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/issue/2484>
[16:53] <mup> Bug #1555217 changed: snappy leaks loop devices <snapd:Unknown> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1555217>
[18:17] <mup> PR snapcraft#973 opened: Check the license agreement on Travis <Created by elopio> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/973>
[18:17] <mup> PR snapcraft#974 opened: Updated maven plugin to use get_build_properties() <Created by ZenHarbinger> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/974>
[18:17] <mup> PR snapcraft#975 opened: Updated the gradle.py plugin to use the get_build_properties() method instead of modifying the schema <Created by ZenHarbinger> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/975>
[18:38] <jdstrand> niemeyer: did you see my response for Properties.Get()? it is covered for GNOME and KDE apps which this iteration is trying to unblock
[18:38] <ogra_> elopio, hmpf, not sure what you wanted to fool me with in rocket ... but it showed me that i cant log in at all anymore to rocket.ubuntu.com
[18:38] <ogra_> :
[18:38] <ogra_> :(
[18:38] <jdstrand> niemeyer: also, GNOME and KDE apps don't do the different interfaces, they use consistent interfaces that work with this PR
[18:40] <jdstrand> niemeyer: he is wanting a super-general interface that can work with any service. that isn't this PR. this PR is GNOME and KDE leaf-style applications [C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C
[18:41] <jdstrand> niemeyer: there is going to need to be considerable investigation, thought and design to try to support services generally. some services will work with just this, and that's fine, but we don't even support session services or dbus policy, etc, etc so blocking this PR to support services that won't work anyway seems odd
[18:42] <jdstrand> s/dbus policy/dbus bus policy generally/
[18:42] <mup> PR snapd#2479 closed: many: implement snap unalias using snapstate.Unalias <Critical> <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2479>
[18:45] <niemeyer> jdstrand: My concern is not even understanding what James is talking about..  I hear you saying we don't need to support everything, but when I see James saying we won't support the very thing he's working on, I get concerned we don't even understand which tradeoffs we're making
[18:45] <jdstrand> niemeyer: I'm concerned about scope creep for this PR. This will allow GNOME and KDE leaf-style applications to be able to be in stable. it is intended to also have them integrate into the desktop session and to have different leaf-style applications to talk to each other via snap connections. that's it. it lays the groundwork for services in general, but doesn't attempt to implement that yet
[18:46] <jdstrand> niemeyer: he is not trying to snap a GNOME application
[18:46] <jdstrand> niemeyer: he is trying to write a dbus session service
[18:46] <jdstrand> niemeyer: we don't support that in at least two other ways beyond this PR
[18:47] <jdstrand> this PR works for Properties.Get() for leaf-style applications. He did not notice the rule I mentioned covered his concern
[18:47] <niemeyer> I don't get that distinction.. gnome applications are just software like any other.. they can use dbus as they see fit
[18:48] <jdstrand> niemeyer: in addition, he is not blocked on this. he can write an interface for storage service just like everyone else has for bluez, network-manager, locationd, etc
[18:48] <jdstrand> niemeyer: gnome and kde applications use toolkit libraries that use dbus in a very specific way
[18:48] <jdstrand> niemeyer: eg, GApplication
[18:49] <jdstrand> this is why no GNOME application works today. GApplication binds to the well-known name
[18:49] <niemeyer> Do you know what James means when he talks about multiple well known names?
[18:49] <jdstrand> the toolkit takes that well-known name and actually creates dbus paths and interfaces very regularly
[18:49] <jdstrand> precisely in the way that this PR addresses
[18:49] <jdstrand> niemeyer: he was saying several things
[18:50] <niemeyer> I'm asking about one specific thing
[18:51] <jdstrand> niemeyer: 1. a single well-known name, eg, org.foo might have interfaces for org.foo and org.bar. 2. a single well-known name like org.foo might use different paths, like /org/foo and /org/bar and 3. a single service might bind to multiple well-known names
[18:51] <jdstrand> niemeyer: this PR handles '3'
[18:51] <jdstrand> '1' and '2' it does not. and we specifically decided before that it should not in *this* iteration
[18:52] <jdstrand> a future iteration would consider these other use cases and we would design for that
[18:52] <jdstrand> this PR is written in a manner that we can build upon for the future use cases
[18:53] <niemeyer> How do we handle 1 in the future? That'd what James was talking about
[18:53] <jdstrand> add 'interface' attribute
[18:54] <niemeyer> When referring to multiple well known names
[18:54] <jdstrand> and '2' is add 'path' attribute
[18:54] <niemeyer> Doesnt work.. interface is something else
[18:54] <jdstrand> ok, 'dbus-interface'
[18:54] <niemeyer> What is name then?
[18:54] <jdstrand> interface is an overloaded term
[18:54] <niemeyer> I thought that was interface
[18:55] <jdstrand> it means one thing in dbus and another in snappy
[18:55] <niemeyer> Yes, we're talking about dbus
[18:56] <niemeyer> What is the name attribute referring to? I thought it was the dbus interface name?
[18:56] <mup> PR snapcraft#966 closed: sources: refactor rpm source into module <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/966>
[18:56] <jdstrand> niemeyer: in dbus, you have a well-known name for a service (org.foo). that service may offer any number of dbus interfaces (eg, org.fo.bar, org.foo.baz, org.norf) and then dbus also has a path
[18:56] <jdstrand> niemeyer: the 'name' attribute is the well-known dbus connection name
[18:56] <jdstrand> org.gnome.Logs
[18:56] <jdstrand> org.gnome.Rhythmbox
[18:57] <jdstrand> GNOME and KDE toolkits are very regular with how the well-known name corresponds to dbus interface and dbus paths
[18:58] <jdstrand> which is why this PR does what it is doing now
[18:58] <jdstrand> what we are doing now would be the defaults we would always offer I imagine, and then additional attributes for 'dbus-interface' or 'dbus-path' would add additional security policy
[18:58] <niemeyer> So do we support any interface on the well known name?
[19:00] <jdstrand> we did discuss this before, but, look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1613/files#diff-715ebbcbcd440b44a1e536f154ca6138R149
[19:00] <mup> PR snapd#1613: interfaces/builtin: add dbus interface (LP: #1590679) <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1613>
[19:01] <jdstrand> we allow a connected snap to introspect our dbus api
[19:01] <jdstrand> we allow a connected snap to use any dbus interface and any dbus path if they are connecting to the well-known name
[19:02] <jdstrand> if they are using a non-well-known name, we allow connecting to any dbus path if the dbus interface is regular according to our well-known name
[19:02] <niemeyer> Okay, that sounds reasonable
[19:02] <niemeyer> Thanks for the long explanation
[19:02] <jdstrand> if they are using a non-well-known name, we allow connecting with any dbus interface if the dbus path is regular accoriding to our well-known name
[19:03] <niemeyer> Happy to go forward with it
[19:03] <jdstrand> \o/
[19:03] <niemeyer> Is the PR blocked on anything else at this point?
[19:04] <jdstrand> niemeyer: no. tyhicks reviewed the security policy. pedronis reviewed the code. I incorporated all applicable feedback from everywhere
[19:04] <niemeyer> So let's get it in
[19:04] <jdstrand> thanks!
[19:04] <niemeyer> Thank you!
[19:06] <jdstrand> niemeyer: so with that, I plan to work with the personal folks on designing their interfaces (eg, storage framework) and will be reviewing tvoss' work for session services and will be thinking about how all of this relates to this interface, improvements we can make to this interface, etc and when I have coherent thoughts on it, will present phase ii, phase iii, etc, etc iterations to you
[19:13] <elopio> morphis__: looking at your homeassitant reply, it's not really necessary to have the snapcraft.yaml in the root
[19:13] <elopio> https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core/pull/264/files#diff-a4a8be59175f107f2ba1ce86da0c8286R28
[19:13] <mup> PR blockstack/blockstack-core#264: Add the packaging metadata to build the blockstack-core snap <Created by elopio> <https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core/pull/264>
[19:14] <elopio> it looks better, that's true. And sometimes using the relative path might cause a mess. But it should work.
[19:15] <jdstrand> niemeyer: ok, I reviewed the testsuite issues-- all are unrelated to this PR (I left a comment). I also captured the tail end of the above IRC discussion in a comment so people understand what is allowed by the policy
[19:17] <jdstrand> niemeyer: since your previous 'requested changes' is still in effect, I'll leave this to you to pres the merge button?
[19:17] <jdstrand> press*
[19:19] <morphis__> elopio: interesting
[19:20] <mup> PR snapd#2485 opened: overlord: apply auto-aliases information from the snap-declaration on install or refresh <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2485>
[19:38]  * ahoneybun slides some money to someone who can snap this: https://github.com/wereturtle/ghostwriter
[19:41] <kyrofa> ahoneybun, did you run into problems with it?
[19:41] <ahoneybun> kyrofa: tbh I've not even tried
[19:42] <ahoneybun> I've only gotten 1 snap to work
[19:44] <ahoneybun> well half work as it needed flash for some content
[20:04] <kissiel> my network problems are gone, lesson learned: KEEP AWAY FROM NETGEAR
[20:05] <kyrofa> kissiel, yikes, was it compromised?
[20:06] <kissiel> not that bad; 9/10 snap commands timed out
[20:06] <kissiel> reason being bad DNS via ipv6 handling
[20:06] <kissiel> and causing a mess/timeouts
[20:09] <kyrofa> kissiel, if it makes you feel better, I think my asus is dying on me, too
[20:10] <kissiel> kyrofa: which one is it, cause from today on I got two :D
[20:10] <kyrofa> kissiel, RT-N66U, but it's pretty old nowadays
[20:10] <kyrofa> kissiel, and it might also be my modem. Or ISP :P
[20:11] <kyrofa> Tough to debug problems like that
[20:11] <kissiel> kyrofa: oh man; oh yeah
[20:12] <kissiel> kyrofa: my wget -4 apps.ubuntu.com took 0.2s, while without `-4` it took 15s+
[20:31] <mhall119> jdstrand: if a snap uses the removable-media interface, where will the snap environment see that media?
[20:38] <jdstrand> mhall119: /media on classic. an all snaps system with udisks2 snap installed, /run/media
[20:39] <mhall119> jdstrand: thanks, does it only make it visible when you try to access it?
[20:41] <jdstrand> mhall119: I'm not sure I understand the question. lsdir on / is blocked and /media is blocked without removable-media, so snaps can't see anything in there until snap connect. there is nothing special about the interface other than allowing access to the directory
[20:42] <mhall119> jdstrand: I snap-connected krita to removable-media, but the open dialog didn't show /media/ until I entered it manually, and then it wouldn't show /media/mhall/ until I undered that manually too, etc
[20:42] <mhall119> trying to determine if this is a snapd thing, or a krita thing
[20:44] <jdstrand> mhall119: you will definitely have to enter /media/. tab complete and things won't work and you can't navigate from say /home/mhall, /home, /, /media, cause all those directories are not readable
[20:44] <jdstrand> mhall119: let me check the exact rule for under /media
[20:45] <jdstrand> mhall119: right, cause mounts are done in /media/<user>/, you have to also enter /media/mhall/. after that you can tab complete and go to /media/mhall/subdir/subdir/... via the file dialog
[20:46] <jdstrand> these are the rules:
[20:46] <jdstrand> # Mount points could be in /run/media/<user>/* or /media/<user>/*
[20:46] <jdstrand> /{,run/}media/*/ r,
[20:46] <jdstrand> /{,run/}media/*/** rw,
[20:46] <mhall119> that's kind of hard to discover, is there any way we can make this better?
[20:48] <jdstrand> mhall119: the security policy is correct. snaps shouldn't be able to lsdir() all over the place. it can be improved, but it should be at the toolkit level. eg, the file dialog should not be run in-process, it should be out-of-process, like with content-hub
[20:48] <jdstrand> mhall119: that way the application doesn'
[20:49] <jdstrand> t have to care about snappy. the user drives the interaction, and the out of process trusted helper mediates the access
[20:49] <jdstrand> there is a bug on this and that is what was outlined
[20:49] <mhall119> jdstrand: ideally yes, and that's likely to come in the future, but doesn't help yet
[20:49] <mhall119> strangly, the open dialog can see /home and /snap when I point it to /
[20:50] <jdstrand> that is indeed strage
[20:53] <jdstrand> I mean, we *could* allow '/home/ r, / r, /media/ r,'. that would allow enumerating users. It wouldn't be the worst thing, especially on classic
[20:54] <jdstrand> there is a problematic directory though: ~/snap/. I was expressly asked to not allow lsdir access to it cause that would allow snaps to enumerate installed apps
[20:54] <jdstrand> and because HOME is set to /home/user/snap/$SNAP/$REVISION/, apps start down there. there is a bug on that too
[20:55] <jdstrand> (so, /home/user/snap/$SNAP/$REVISION is fine, /home/user/snap/$SNAP is fine, /home/user/snap is not, /home/user is fine with 'home', then get to /home, etc
[20:56] <jdstrand> )
[21:05] <mup> PR snapcraft#976 opened: demos: do not force arch for the tomcat demo <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/976>
[21:10] <knight__> Hello. I'm trying to use Ubuntu Core for the first time on a Raspberry Pi 3. First boot it needs config, so I setup the Wifi but it will not connect. It times out. I tried 3 different wifi networks available to me (one of which is less than 4 meters away). Any thoughts?
[21:10] <kyrofa> ogra_, ^^ if you're still around
[21:11] <ogra_> knight__, you need to do the initial setup wired ... later you can ssh into the board and re run "sudo console-conf" to disable wired and enable wireless
[21:12] <ogra_> (there is a bug with the pi33 driver on first boot setup, but it works fine later)
[21:12] <ogra_> **pi3
[21:19] <knight__> ogra_ why hasn't the bug been fixed? Is it a hardware issue? Or is there a problem with the kernel?
[21:20] <ogra_> its a driver issue, fix is in the works but not there
[21:20] <knight__> gotcha, ok thanks. Is there a way to preconfigure Ubuntu Core? I'm very Ubuntu familiar, but this is first time I'm using core.
[21:20] <knight__> For example, let's say I am building a custom firmware.
[21:23] <ogra_> there is a way through loading an assertion file from USB on first boot, but i dont know exacctly how or where thats documented, sorry
[21:38] <knight__> ogra_ but isn't the purpose of Ubuntu Core to be the basis of custom IoT firmwares?
[21:38] <ogra_> yes
[21:38] <knight__> So how are people customizing Ubuntu Core to be self-contained custom firmwares for their devices?
[21:39] <ogra_> they rll their own images based on a custom gadget snap
[21:39] <knight__> Oh I see. So not using the "intro" image
[21:40] <knight__> The image available on the Ubuntu Core page is really just to get running a vanilla core on a preferred supported device easy. Not as the start for a custom build.
[21:40] <knight__> Is that right?
[21:40] <ogra_> right, the gadget can ship default configs and such ... an when you build your own image using ubuntu-image you can easily add additional snap packages to get extra features
[21:40] <knight__> Ahh beautiful, ok.
[21:40] <ogra_> well, to get a custom build you would start from there
[21:40] <ogra_> install the official core image, add your additional snaps and configure them etc
[21:41] <ogra_> also for many applications the official image is sufficient ...
[21:41] <knight__> Are you aware of any native support for creating things like restore partitions and custom firmware updates?
[21:41] <ogra_> i.e. the nextcloud box ...
[21:41] <ogra_> you dont really need a local user for it ... you create and manage the nextcloud users via the nextcloud UI
[21:41] <knight__> Such as if two pins on the RPI3 GPIO are activated (button held down), can initiate a rollback to "stock" on the restore image
[21:42] <ogra_> (same would go for a kodi image, you wouldnt really need any users on it to watvh TV)
[21:42] <ogra_> such fanc stuff is further down the roadmap ... but yeah, things like recovery mode and factory reset are on the roadmap
[21:43] <ogra_> **fancy
[21:44] <knight__> oh nice
[21:44] <knight__> so not avail yet, but on the roadmap
[21:46] <ogra_> yep
[21:47] <ogra_> there is also a so called "model creator" planned, that should make it trivial to build your own custom images
[21:49] <knight__> oh wild
[21:49] <knight__> ok, all that right there just made me excited for Core
[21:49] <knight__> so, can i skip setting up wired networking altogether, then re-run console-conf on first boot? or must it establish a wired connection no matter what?
[21:50] <knight__> Seems like there's no way to skip networking.
[21:54] <ogra_> well, since you need an ubuntu SSO account to create the local user from ... network is kind of needed
[21:55] <ogra_> (core grabs your ssh key from the SSO account and sets up a local ssh key login for you)
[21:58] <knight__> Ahh right
[21:58] <knight__> OK.
[21:58] <knight__> Bummer, I don't have screen near network drop.
[22:00] <ogra_> serial console is enabled by default in case that helps ...
[22:00] <ogra_> (for console-conf)
[22:07] <mup> PR snapd#2486 opened: tests: fix tests on 17.04 <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2486>
[22:11] <mup> PR snapd#2487 opened: overlord/snapstate: implement snapstate.ResetAlias <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2487>
[22:13]  * ogra_ goes afk
[22:20] <knight__> ogra_ ... does that mean you don't have to get network up and logged in first?
[22:41] <mup> PR snapcraft#967 closed: sources: refactor script source into module <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/967>