[00:07] <poolie> hello all
[00:15] <poolie> lifeless: hi, i was thinking about having a stab at either bug 385826 or bug 393677 today...
[00:15] <lifeless> 38826 is what spiv is working on
[00:16] <lifeless> 393677 doesn't conflict with anyone
[00:16] <lifeless> so I'd suggest 393677
[00:24] <poolie> hm i meant the one with InterDifferingSerializer
[00:24] <poolie> but at any rate it's related to what he's doing
[00:24] <poolie> i was hoping it would be complementary
[00:24] <poolie> i wonder if he sent his patch...
[00:25] <lifeless> poolie: so there are three things that need to lang all roughly at the same time
[00:25] <lifeless> 1) streaming inv deltas
[00:25] <lifeless> 2) fixup the streaming rich root conversion
[00:26] <lifeless> 3) disable IDS for non-local operations
[00:26] <lifeless> my hunch is that its better to have one person do all three, as I expect test interactions
[00:29] <spiv> poolie: still working on that patch... currently fixing differences in behaviour between the streaming path and InterDifferingSerializer that the tests found.
[00:30] <lifeless> spiv: the rich root conversion path?
[00:30] <spiv> lifeless: right
[00:30] <lifeless> great
[00:30] <spiv> Which I guess is your 2) from above.
[00:30] <lifeless> yes
[00:30] <lifeless> there are three separate bugs for 1,2 and 3
[00:30] <spiv> I'm basically taking the logic from IDS and transplanting it.
[00:30] <lifeless> you'll probably want to close them all  :)
[00:31] <spiv> Sure, the more bugs closed the merrier :)
[00:32] <spiv> FWIW, I have the bulk of 1) done, although I haven't finished exhaustively testing or polishing because of 2).
[00:33] <lifeless> the reason for 2 is that without 3, which needed 1, I'd have had to write awkward tests for 2 rather than the simpler generic tests
[00:33] <lifeless> and as it wasn't being used that seemed counterproductive
[00:35] <GungaJin> hHi
[00:35] <GungaJin> I upgraded to 1.16 on Windows and I keep getting now "bzr: ERROR: Unable to look up default port for ssh".
[00:35] <GungaJin> Any ideas why?
[00:35] <spiv> GungaJin: Someone else had that error the other day, but I don't recall the cause :/
[00:36] <spiv> Which version did you upgrade from?
[00:37] <GungaJin> 1.14
[00:37] <spiv> Hmm, I wouldn't expect there to be any changes since 1.14 that would cause that.
[00:38] <GungaJin> But that's what I'm getting on Windows
[00:38] <spiv> I wonder if something odd changed in the build process for the Windows installer since 1.14?
[00:38] <spiv> It sounds like a system misconfiguration issue, but I don't know why 1.16 would expose it if 1.14 didn't.
[00:39] <spiv> GungaJin: can you run the command with -Derror added to the commandline, and pastebin the traceback?
[00:40] <GungaJin> sure
[00:41] <spiv> Hmm.  That error string isn't part of bzrlib, so maybe it's one of the bundled plugins that's causing it...
[00:41] <GungaJin> http://pastebin.com/m6d892fee
[00:42] <spiv> Ah-hah, and I was right.
[00:42] <spiv> It seems to be due to the bzr-svn plugin.
[00:42] <lifeless> please file a bug on bzr-svn
[00:43] <spiv> Probably you can work around it by using --no-plugins or explicitly giving the port number in your URLs (i.e. bzr+ssh://hostname:22/...)
[00:43] <spiv> But please do file a bug.
[00:44] <GungaJin> How can you tell it's in bzr-svn?
[00:44] <spiv> I *think* this bug is already fixed in bzr-svn trunk, looking at the code.
[00:45] <GungaJin> I think so too.. I just found a similar post in launchpad.
[00:45] <spiv> (it now mutters that message to the log and returns cleanly, rather than raising an error)
[00:45] <GungaJin> https://answers.launchpad.net/bzr/+question/73528
[00:45] <spiv> GungaJin: I can tell because the last part of the traceback is in plugins\svn\auth.py
[00:46] <GungaJin> i c
[00:46] <GungaJin> (sorry.. I don't really know python..)
[00:46] <spiv> Sure, that's ok.
[00:46] <spiv> That's what we're here for :)
[00:48] <poolie> igc, you should blog about the bzr-explorer release with pretty pictures
[00:51] <igc> poolie: shall do
[00:53] <zsquareplusc> is there a recommended way to convert from svn to bzr?  i used just "branch" (with bzr-svn installed) and it seems to do the expected (creating a native bzr branch)
[00:53] <SamB> jelmer: with what should I replace "svnversion" in a Makefile in order to get something sensible from a bzr-svn working copy?
[00:59] <RAOF> zsquareplusc: Yeah, that's about it.
[01:00] <RAOF> SamB: GNOME Do uses 'bzr version-info --custom --template="bzr {branch_nick} r{revno}"'
[01:00] <zsquareplusc> fine
[01:00] <zsquareplusc> and is there a history editing tool. i.e i have an private branch that i'd like to clean up before publishing
[01:01] <dash> zsquareplusc: 'uncommit' is about all there is
[01:01] <RAOF> zsquareplusc: Not really.  You _can_ effectivly re-structure history by judicious merging, though.
[01:01] <SamB> RAOF: I meant, a way to extract just the nearest ancestral SVN revision number
[01:01] <SamB> with maybe some indication of how far away it was
[01:01] <dash> zsquareplusc: in general, there's not much reason to clean up history in a branch
[01:02] <poolie> igc, it does look like links to the group blog posts are broken on planet bazaar
[01:02] <dash> since it doesn't show up in the normal log of mainline
[01:02] <poolie> the feed looks ok to me so i'll file an rt I guess
[01:02] <SamB> poolie: but clicking on things from the feed, does that work?
[01:03] <poolie> yep
[01:03] <RAOF> zsquareplusc: If you've got a branch with lots of experimental commits, and you'd like to tie them into feature-commits, you can bzr merge -rA..B ../experimental branch, possibly fix stuff, then commit.  Follow with bzr merge -rB..C ../experimental, rince and repeat.
[01:03] <poolie> how about for you? http://bazaarvcs.wordpress.com/feed/
[01:03] <GungaJin> How do I uninstall the svn plugin?
[01:03] <zsquareplusc> dash: because i ran that project privately it may contain comments not intended for others eyes. or think of passwords in old changsets
[01:05] <zsquareplusc> RAOF: ah ok. so i could create a new history with a few important points relatively easy.
[01:05] <RAOF> zsquareplusc: I don't _think_ there's much support for that yet, although it's an acknowledged need.  Someone more knowledgable might have a better idea.  IIRC I've seen lifeless talk about this before?
[01:06] <dash> zsquareplusc: what RAOF described doesn't erase history
[01:06] <zsquareplusc> the alternative is i just import the head w/o any history. but that is kind of sad for all the time i took to write the commit comments :-)
[01:06] <RAOF> Yeah.  What I sugested merely clusters history into potentialy more useful groups.
[01:07] <lifeless> GungaJin: if you've used the executable installer you can't
[01:07] <lifeless> GungaJin: because its bundled in the same exe
[01:07] <poolie> filing an rt for the feed links...
[01:09] <lifeless> GungaJin: I think we'll need to fix the 1.16.1 installer with a new bzr-svn
[01:10] <zsquareplusc> i could start with an empty branch and go through the revisions of the original, copying the files to my branch for each step. would some work. :/
[01:11] <dash> zsquareplusc: _do_ you have passwords in your revision history?
[01:12] <GungaJin> lifeless - probably, but I don't feel like writing --no-plugins all the time... and I don't use this plugin anyway.
[01:12] <dash> there is a plugin named 'bzr-rebase', it might be of help
[01:12] <zsquareplusc> dash: probably not :-)  but it is a history over a few years, who knows what i did back then ;-)
[01:13] <zsquareplusc> an other issue i have is with bzr-gtk. everytime i start one of its commands like bzr vis i get a traceback (DBusException) on the 1st run. the 2nd time it is working.
[01:14] <zsquareplusc> mm. with 1.13.1 (jaunty)
[01:14] <spiv> GungaJin: I think there may be another way around it
[01:15] <GungaJin> I'll be glad to hear it.
[01:15] <spiv> GungaJin: you might be able to avoid that error by adding an entry for ssh to your windows\system32\drivers\etc\services directory
[01:15] <spiv> s/directory/file//
[01:16] <GungaJin> ?
[01:18] <spiv> GungaJin: I haven't used Windows in a pretty long time, so I might be wrong, but I think that file is used to lookup port numbers when a program calls the getservbyname winsock function.
[01:19] <spiv> GungaJin: you can probably just add a line like "ssh 22/tcp" to that file to avoid that bzr-svn bug
[01:19] <GungaJin> hmmmm... could be.
[01:19] <GungaJin> but I'm just using the default port...
[01:19] <SamB> spiv: why does guessing that have anything to do with using windows?
[01:19] <spiv> (that bzr-svn bug is triggered when getservbyname fails to look up a port for a scheme like 'ssh')
[01:19] <SamB> oh, because you can't remember if there is a file like that?
[01:20] <spiv> SamB: I'm pretty sure there used to be a file like that in roughly that location in older versions of Windows.
[01:20] <spiv> SamB: I could be wrong about the details, current Windows might do something completely different, etc :)
[01:20] <SamB> well, if there is already a file there, you can be pretty sure that it's for that
[01:21] <spiv> I think I'm mostly right, or wouldn't be wasting GungaJin's time, but I figure I should be clear when I'm not totally sure about my advice :)
[01:21] <SamB> a quick google indicates that they're apparantly still there in vista
[01:29] <kingos> lifeless: sorry to bug you, but any plans of what to do about my bzr check failing bug?
[01:29] <kingos> lifeless: I have a lot of users that would like some faster performance, and we can't upgrade because check fails
[01:29] <kingos> maybe there is someone else who could help?
[01:30] <poolie> kingos: what's the bug number?
[01:31] <kingos> bug 356028
[01:35] <lifeless> kingos: hi. I'll look into it this afternoon.
[01:49] <kingos> lifeless: thanks
[02:45] <emet> jhello
[02:46] <emet> 2 collaborators, no server
[02:46] <emet> how do I set up something like this
[02:49] <zsquareplusc> no server at all, or could you run a ssh/sftp server?
[02:50] <poolie> emet, if you have email you can just use bzr send
[02:50] <poolie> then merge or pulll from the bundles
[02:50] <davidstrauss> zsquareplusc: please explain your question a little more
[02:52] <zsquareplusc> davidstrauss: that was directed to emet.  i like that you can push and pull a bzr branch to a server with just an ssh account there. so no special SW on server
[02:57] <emet> okay bzr send might be a solution, SSH seems like a more secure solution
[02:59] <SamB> emet: bzr send is plenty secure if you review the diffs
[03:00] <poolie> well, send is as secure as your email setup
[03:00] <poolie> send with gpg and smtp tls and it's about as secure as ssh imo
[03:02] <spiv> Grr, pycurl test hangs are annoying.  At least you can strace to find out the fd it is polling then use gdb to close the fd to unhang it (and fail the test).
[03:07] <lifeless> popping out for a walk; going to think about how best to fit in the iterchanges changes for dirstate
[03:14] <spiv> Still, everything other test is passing, so that's good.
[03:15] <spiv> Now to fix the duplicated code...
[03:53]  * igc lunch
[04:04] <poolie> spiv, can you push it before you go out?
[05:21] <lifeless> I wish pyrex could be run straight from python
[05:21] <lifeless> it would be awesome
[05:22] <Peng_> Like what, import a .pyx and it would be automagically sorted out?
[05:22] <Peng_> Doesn't Cython have a feature like that?
[05:23] <Peng_> lifeless: http://docs.cython.org/docs/tutorial.html#pyximport-cython-compilation-the-easy-way
[05:30] <lifeless> Peng_: no, I mean run in emulation
[05:30] <lifeless> Peng_: to allow debugging with pdb etc while fixing shit
[05:30] <lifeless> then set it free with C after that
[05:31] <Peng_> Oooooh.
[05:31] <lifeless> Peng_: do you do stuff with GnomeDo?
[05:31] <Peng_> lifeless: Never heard of it.
[05:32] <lifeless> I saw a reference to Peng in the release blog post for it yesterday
[05:32] <lifeless> was wonding if Peng == Peng_
[05:33] <Peng_> I really should've gone with a more unique handle...
[05:44] <lifeless> Peng__?
[05:53] <Peng_> lifeless: Too many other people use Peng.
[05:54] <lifeless> Uin?
[05:54] <Peng_> Yeah. :\
[05:54] <lifeless> (pronounced 'win')
[05:54]  * Peng_ is terrible at coming up with names.
[05:54] <lifeless> I'm suggesting it for a name for you
[05:54] <Peng_> God forbid I ever have children... :D
[05:54] <Peng_> Oh.
[05:54] <Peng_> Not taken. Does Freenode allow 3-lettern icks?
[05:54] <Peng_> err, s/n / n/
[05:54] <poolie> try it... :)
[05:54] <lifeless> I suggested Peng__ too, but you seemed to miss the joke :)
[05:55] <Peng_> lifeless: Oh. Yes, I did.
[05:55] <Peng_> Someone on one network is annoyed by the single _. Two would probably kill him. :D
[05:55] <poolie> "joke" :)
[06:35] <lifeless> \o/ dirstate pyx passing the first test
[06:35] <lifeless> its polish from here on it
[06:35] <lifeless> *in*
[06:39] <poolie> that's good
[06:39] <lifeless> still got some careful thinking to do
[06:39] <poolie> but also surprising to me
[06:39] <lifeless> about ways we could still generate bad inv deltas
[06:39] <lifeless> poolie: whats surprising?
[06:45] <lifeless> python passes; CHKInv next
[07:13] <vila> hi all
[07:16] <poolie> hello vila!
[07:41] <poolie> vila, lifeless, any thoughts on my recent comments at the bottom of bug 340347?
[07:41] <lifeless> poolie: listifying is permitted by the contract
[07:42] <lifeless> poolie: in particular, the http transports all buffer a full copy AIUI (because of the underlying behaviour)
[07:42] <poolie> hm
[07:42] <poolie> i doubt access to packs over http would work in that case
[07:42] <poolie> and it does seem to
[07:43] <vila> lifeless: meeep, only pycurl does that
[07:43] <poolie> if it doesn't turn them back into a generator it will probably give a similar failure
[07:43] <poolie> it might...
[07:43]  * vila checking
[07:44] <lifeless> poolie: so what failure do you get? MemoryError?
[07:45] <poolie> lifeless: http does buffer a lot of stuff potentially but does eventually yield it out of readv, as a generator
[07:45] <poolie> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'next'
[07:45] <lifeless> oh
[07:45] <poolie> typical failure for something that wanted a generator and got a list of course
[07:45] <lifeless> the iterator probably wants to return iter() of what its returning at the moment
[07:45] <lifeless> s/iterator/generator/
[07:46] <vila> poolie, lifeless : confirmed, pycurl buffers as much as 4M, while urllib-based goes to great lengths to *not* buffer at all
[07:46] <lifeless> -or- the calling code should iter() what it gets
[07:46] <lifeless> vila: hyopthetical
[07:46] <vila> lifeless: ??
[07:46] <poolie> lifeless: itym s/iterator/decorator/?
[07:46] <lifeless> vila: what happens if you ask for 10000000-10000999, 15-20, and the server gives a 200
[07:46] <poolie> as i say, i'm actually wondering if we should do both of those
[07:47] <lifeless> poolie: yes, yes, I do
[07:47] <lifeless> poolie: and I think both would be sensible
[07:48] <vila> lifeless: as in 'squid is involved' ? :-P Seriously, pycurl will certainly raise MemoryError, urllib should just seek() the unwanted bits (I don remember exactly if we allow unsorted ranges)
[07:49] <lifeless> vila: any server is allowed to do this
[07:49] <vila> lifeless: I know, but some proxies abuse it (still joking ;-)
[07:50] <lifeless> vila: squid doesn't do this in fact; it generates ranges from its local cache
[07:50] <lifeless> vila: if we _permitted_ it to cache it would do better
[07:54] <vila> lifeless: hmm, I didn't thought about that... From https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/120697/comments/7 , my conclusions at that point was that we don't want squid to download a whole xxGB pack files for answering requests that will at most represent yyyMB, am I wrong ?
[07:55] <davidstrauss> Is it time to talk about Squid in this channel, too? :-)
[07:55] <lifeless> vila: we don't, but on the other hand if we're going to read all the pack file eventually anyway, cache hits would be good
[07:56] <vila> lifeless: ok
[07:58] <vila> poolie: I implemented readv as http://paste.ubuntu.com/207353/ in my transportstats plugin, AFAIK the tests are still passing
[07:58] <vila> poolie: i.e. just do for item in whatever-the-decorated-returns: yield item
[07:59] <poolie> yeah
[07:59] <poolie> log+ folds the whole thing into a list
[07:59] <poolie> this may be inferior
[07:59] <poolie> in several ways, but it does mean we can print the whole size
[08:00] <vila> yup, that's a problem transportstats has to address at a different level (and theres is still that big FIXME)
[08:00] <poolie> let's merge it sometime...
[08:01] <poolie> at least the feature if not the code
[08:01] <poolie> getting a total count at the end of -Dhpss is good...
[08:01] <vila> yeah, there is a huge TODO in that plugin :-/
[08:06] <lifeless> ciao
[08:06] <vila> lifeless: g'night
[08:06] <poolie> cheerio
[08:19] <poolie> lifeless, how about moving ReadVFile from pack.py into transport?
[08:19] <poolie> it seems totally generic
[08:19] <poolie> i guess it can wait though.
[08:40] <nono0> is there a bzr service like bitbucket
[08:41] <lifeless> launchpad.net
[09:35]  * igc1 dinner
[09:47] <victory747> Hi, I have a problem with bzr-svn - I branched a repo and then branched from that for my working copy.  Later, I had to bzr svn-upgrade the svn repo due to the format changing in bzr-svn.  Now I can't merge my working copy back into the svn one since the ids are different, nor can I bzr svn-upgrade the working copy since the parent is not a foreign repository.
[11:49] <awilkins> Should 2a always be smaller than the equivalent 1.14-rich-root repository?
[11:51] <LarstiQ> awilkins: http://bazaarvcs.wordpress.com/2009/06/30/scability-benchmarking/
[11:53] <awilkins> I'm just repacking it
[11:53] <awilkins> It was 711M to start with now it's 904
[11:53] <Peng_> Don't forget obsolete_packs.
[11:53] <awilkins> Deleted those
[11:53] <awilkins> And I'm only sizing "/packs"
[11:54] <asabil> hi all
[11:54] <asabil> a small stupid question, how can I cherry pick the last 3 commits from a release branch into trunk ?
[11:55] <asabil> bzr merge -r -3.. ../series/0.2  doesn't produce the expected result for me
[12:02] <jelmer> asabil, what's unexpected exactly?
[12:03] <asabil> I would like it to apply the 3 last commits as patches into the current working tree
[12:04] <asabil> at least that what I would expect since bzr doesn't track cherry picks
[12:04] <jelmer> asabil, but what does bzr merge -r3... do that you don't expect?
[12:04] <asabil> it just applies the last commit as a patch
[12:04] <jelmer> asabil, ah, sorry
[12:04] <jelmer> asabil, if you mean the *last* three patches, try -r-3
[12:05] <asabil> -r-3 will only apply the 3rd to the last patch according to the bzr user guide
[12:08] <awilkins> LarstiQ: After a repack it's now 651MB so a little smaller :)
[12:09] <LarstiQ> awilkins: ok
[12:13] <Peng_> bzr.dev r4494 ("(Jelmer) Pass create_prefix paremeter to BzrDir.push_branch.") doesn't actually introduce any changes...
[12:13] <jelmer> asabil, I mean -r-3..
[12:14] <asabil> jelmer: doesn't work, it tries to delete all the files
[12:29] <LeoNerd> Having 'bzr shelve'd some changes, can I show the stored diff somehow; like bzr shelf1 show ?
[13:04]  * asabil thinks that bzr needs something like bitbucket or github
[13:23] <gmb> Hi.
[13:23] <gmb> I'm receiving the following error when trying to `bzr branch`: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/207499/ Is there anything I can do to resolve it?
[13:36] <LarstiQ> gmb: there are bugs filed that look like that. Offhand you could try reconcile
[13:37] <gmb> LarstiQ: Okay, I'll give that a shot and do some digging. Thanks.
[14:50] <vila> Goood morning jam !
[14:50] <jam> morning vila
[15:02] <Tak> meh - is there a way to resolve "AssertionError: Tried registering <blah> as parent while None already was parent" on a bzr-svn pull?
[15:06] <jelmer> Tak, what version of bzr-svn?
[15:13] <Tak> whatever comes with the bzr1.16 winstaller
[15:14] <jelmer> Tak, you may be able to fix it by removing the cache directory and letting it regenerate that
[15:14] <Tak> where is the cache directory?
[15:15] <jelmer> somewhere under the directory with local settings for your user account
[15:15] <awilkins> %appdata%\bazaar\2.0\svn-cache
[15:16] <awilkins> Yegods, our network is reaching new lows today
[15:17] <Tak> success!
[15:28] <bialix> hello bzr!
[15:29] <bialix> jam, vila: I have fix for bug 307554
[15:29] <bialix> can somebody review it? please
[15:29] <bialix> http://bundlebuggy.aaronbentley.com/project/bzr/request/%3Ch21ldm%248pt%241%40ger.gmane.org%3E
[15:34] <vila> wow, I was convinced you managed to addresed the problem in qbzr only and din't need a fix bzr 8-/ I realized you updated the bug on lp correctly but I misread things between the greyed 'undecided' and the double affectation bzr/qbzr :-/
[15:35] <bialix> vila: no, the fix for bzr core is still required
[15:35] <vila> bialix: I see that
[15:35] <bialix> ok
[15:36] <bialix> I've followed lifeless suggestions
[15:37] <vila> bialix: sounds correct at first read, I'll install it and review
[15:38] <bialix> I know, I've missed NEWS entry
[15:39] <vila> bialix: an Ukrainian and French to write NEWS entry in English :-) Help !
[15:39] <LarstiQ> can I help? ;)
[15:39] <vila> Dutch to rescue ! Hurrah !
[15:40] <bialix> it was joke, I knew
[15:40] <bialix> :-)
[15:41] <vila> bialix, LarstiQ : Joke aside if alex can pastebin a proposed NEWS entry and wouter can review it, I'll submit the result :)
[15:41] <bialix> ouch!
[15:42] <vila> branch now accepts a --use-existing-dir parameter (Alexander Alexander Belchenko, #307554)
[15:43] <vila> Is that correct and complete enough ?
[15:45] <bialix> no, you wrote my name twice
[15:46] <vila> bialix: :)
[15:46] <bialix> one sec
[15:46] <vila> bialix: your got the code from cmd_checkout ?
[15:46] <bialix> cmd_push
[15:47] <bialix> vila, larstiq: http://pastebin.com/m160586c6
[15:47] <bialix> LarstiQ: ^
[15:47] <bialix> ok?
[15:48] <vila> god for me
[15:48] <vila> good for me
[15:48] <bialix> LarstiQ: you have to approve it
[15:48] <bialix> pleeeease!
[15:49] <bialix> heh
[15:49] <bialix> he's ran away?
[15:50] <bialix> vila: it seems so
[15:54] <bialix> vila: what is your verdict?
[15:55] <vila> approve, I'm fixing a few typos and I'll submit
[15:55] <bialix> ok, many thanks
[15:57] <Tak> jelmer: should I file a bug about that? I'm not sure how to reproduce...
[15:57] <Tak> (bzr-svn issue from hours ago...)
[16:00] <jelmer> Tak, It works now?
[16:00] <jelmer> Tak, I'm suspecting it's a bug in bzr-svn that was fixed earlier but caused issues in the cache
[16:09] <Tak> ok
[16:09] <Tak> yeah, it seems to be working
[16:17] <SamB> jelmer: what was it that needed to happen before bzr-svn supports ignoring files based on that SVN property?
[16:18] <SamB> jelmer: and more immediately useful, do you know of any tools to convert that property into the form used in .bzrignore files?
[16:19] <jelmer> SamB: bzr needs to support a generic API for handling ignores rather than relying on the fact that a versioned file named ".bzrignore" exists
[16:20] <SamB> jelmer: oh, that has to be versioned?
[16:20] <jelmer> SamB, there's some functions in bzr-svn for handling svn:ignore data, which is used for svn:ignore in working copies
[16:20] <SamB> that sounds kind of sick
[16:20] <jelmer> SamB, .bzrignore doesn't have to be versioned atm
[16:20] <SamB> ah good
[16:20] <SamB> that's as it should be, I think
[16:20] <SamB> ... how else is a soul supposed to test changes?
[16:22] <SamB> so ... can bzr-svn access the svn revprops when in a bzr-format working copy for a bzr-format branch?
[16:27] <jelmer> SamB, only svn:author, svn:log and svn:date (which are mapped to their bzr equivalents)
[16:27] <jelmer> SamB, if you think there's a reason to support others, please file a bug :-)
[16:28] <SamB> I was just hoping to add a command to to generate ignore rules in the form required by ".bzrignore"
[16:29] <SamB> so it would have to get the property from somewhere ...
[16:29] <jelmer> SamB, svn:ignore is not a revision property but a file property
[16:29] <SamB> oh, file property
[16:30] <SamB> right
[16:30] <jelmer> file properties aren't stored anywhere either (bzr doesn't have "free-form" file properties, only specific ones)
[16:30]  * SamB doesn't know why he said revprop above
[16:32] <SamB> well, would it be reasonable to write a command that takes an SVN url (perhaps defaulting to bound or parent URL?) and perhaps SVN revision number and outputs .bzrignore rules ?
[16:33]  * SamB wonders where svn:ignore is documented ... tries googling
[16:37] <jelmer> SamB, yeah, that'd be reasonable
[16:44] <SamB> is there a URL for the latest released svnbook ...?
[16:49] <SamB> jelmer: so where is this code dealing with svn:ignore?
[16:51] <jelmer> SamB, workingtree.py
[16:52] <SamB> and would I be able to use this even if I don't have an SVN working tree?
[16:53] <SamB> hmm, the main bit seems to be a method on SvnWorkingTree, so I'm thinking "not without refactoring"
[18:11] <SamB> jelmer: how do you test bzr-svn?
[18:12] <SamB> I mean, I don't really want to run all of the bzr self tests for bzr+all-installed-plugins
[19:05] <backz> hi, how to get a list of changed files since X rev?
[19:07] <beuno> backz, bzr log -v -r X
[19:08] <backz> beuno: ok, but I need only list of files
[19:08] <backz> I'm creating a rsync.txt
[19:09] <beuno> backz, not sure if there's a command that will give you that exact output
[19:10] <backz> ok, no prob, I'll parse log -v output in vim
[19:10] <backz> thanks!
[19:20] <Tak> ffs, how do you show the branch uri(s) in git?
[19:21] <garyvdm> Wrong channel?
[19:23] <Tak> it's relevant, because I'm trying to refind the uri for an existing git branch so I can rebranch it with bzr-git :-P
[19:24] <Tak> then the voices will stop shouting
[19:54] <phinze> just had a cool idea; wondering if there already exists a plugin that does this
[19:54] <phinze> would be nice if i could put in a comment some keyword that would block a checkin with that file
[19:55] <phinze> wouldn't be hard to have a plugin that checked incoming checkin for that keyword and bailed if it was found
[19:55] <phinze> something like # DONT-CHECK-ME-IN \n print($SECRET_VALUE)
[20:49] <ddaa> phinze: first note that you have to store secret values in the source tree of your deployment, you need a better configuration system.
[20:50] <ddaa> phinze: then, the common way to deal with this use case is with "bzr ignore"
[20:50] <ddaa> since involuntary commit is usually a consequence of runnig "bzr add" and not checking the result.
[20:50] <phinze> ddaa: right, i was just using a simple example
[20:51] <phinze> i'm just picturing a sanity-check that allows a dev to, for example, insert debugging code and make sure she doesn't forget about it before commit
[20:52] <phinze> whereas bzr ignore is file-wise
[20:53] <ddaa> oh, that's a much better use case :)
[20:53] <phinze> i looked at a few other pre-commit plugins; and it should be pretty simple to whip up.  i'll post to the room if/when i do that
[20:53] <ddaa> I sometimes put "NOCOMMIT" comments in my code. But what I usually mean is "do not merge that into trunk", not "do not commit that in my development brancH"
[20:54] <ddaa> so, I guess it would be useful to have an option that says in essence "bzr commit --with-the-nocommit-crap-too"
You know, bzr developers have this strange habits of doing multiple commits on development branches before merging on mainline, while other dvcs have crappy log commands that cause this behaviour to be regarded as "commit log pollution"</rant>
So they write strange tools to avoid doing commits, such as hg queues, and they claim they are really cool, while they are half-assed solutions to the wrong problem.</rant>
[20:57] <ddaa> Oops, sorry, I ranted on hg queues again.
[20:57] <fullermd> ddaa: You should try hg queues; they totally solve that problem.  They're really cool.
[20:58]  * ddaa hits fullermd with a large nail-studded stick
[20:59] <mneptok> fullermd: don;t take offense. that's ddaa's customary mating ritual.
[21:00] <ddaa> mneptok: I do not remember hitting any female with a nail-studded stick at our former common employer's meetings.
[21:02] <ddaa> I guess it was against company etiquette, unlike, say, filling a female's belly button with sugar.
[21:02] <fullermd> Are you mad?  Think of the calories!
[21:10] <moldy> hi
[21:10] <moldy> does bzr have an equivalent to svn export?
[21:10] <Tak> export?
[21:11] <moldy> Tak: i just realized that. the syntax was a little weird to me :)
[21:11] <ddaa> moldy: what about 'bzr export'?
[21:11] <moldy> ddaa: yep, thank you
[21:12] <moldy> i got irritated by the fact that it takes the destination as first and the source as second argument
[21:12] <ddaa> the common use case is to run this command from within the source
[21:13] <moldy> yep, i happen to have another use case :)
[21:41] <mwhudson> jelmer: hello
[21:42] <jelmer> mwhudson, hey
[21:44] <mwhudson> jelmer: thinking about using bzr-svn for launchpad again
[21:44] <dash> horray
[21:44] <jelmer> mwhudson, \o/
[21:44] <mwhudson> jelmer: have you made any releases subvertpy of bzr-svn since the last time i talked to you about this?
[21:45] <mwhudson> jelmer: does bzr-svn have anything like the git.db file?
[21:46] <jelmer> mwhudson, that depends on what the last time was that we talked about this :-)
[21:46] <mwhudson> jelmer: it has something in ~/.bazaar/svn-cache, right? not in the repo
[21:46] <jelmer> mwhudson, bzr-svn basically has a companion release for every bzr major release
[21:46] <mwhudson> jelmer: :)
[21:46] <jelmer> mwhudson, yeah, it's separate from the repo indeed
[21:49] <mwhudson> jelmer: so i guess if i did nothing each slave would end up building the cache separately
[21:49] <mwhudson> jelmer: do you think it's worth trying to preserve it somehow?
[21:53] <jelmer> mwhudson, if you have patience it's not really a problem to recreate it each time
[21:53] <mwhudson> sounds easiest :)
[21:53] <jelmer> preserving it would mainly save some CPU cycles on Launchpad's side
[21:54] <jelmer> and if people start roundtripping revisions from bzr into svn heavily you might face some other performance problems
[22:15] <jelmer> mwhudson: It would be nice to be able to import all of the branches from a foreign repository at once, that should in the general case be only slightly more expensive than fetching trunk
[22:16] <jelmer> mwhudson: There are separate commands for this, but no infrastructure afaik
[22:16] <mwhudson> jelmer: i think i'm going to mumble something about colocated branches here
[22:17] <jelmer> mwhudson: :-)
[22:23] <mwhudson> jelmer: i guess we could do something where we update all branches that we're doing from a particular repository at once
[22:24] <mwhudson> jelmer: but that sounds a bit complicated
[22:24] <jelmer> mwhudson, Well, the functionality for that is mostly already there but spread across multiple commands
[22:24] <jelmer> this is what "bzr svn-import" / "bzr git-import" do, and we'll probably end up with a "bzr hg-import", too
[22:25] <mwhudson> jelmer: complicated on my side, i meat
[22:25] <mwhudson> *meant
[22:25]  * mwhudson needs coffee
[22:25] <jelmer> mwhudson, ah
[22:26] <jelmer> yeah, it would I guess
[22:27] <mwhudson> i'm not really worried about wasting launchpad cpu cycles
[22:27] <mwhudson> (we can just buy more machines :)
[22:27] <mwhudson> load on the remote server is more of a concern
[22:27] <mwhudson> but heck
[22:27] <mwhudson> cscvs is about as bad as it can possibly be for this...
[22:28] <jelmer> well, there wouldn't be much overhead on the remote server with this
[22:28] <jelmer> because we can update all branches at once
[22:28] <jelmer> importing all branches at once would be a lot easier on the remote server than importing two individual branches separately
[22:46] <mtaylor> lifeless: awake yet?
[22:52] <mwhudson> jelmer: what about servers like svn.apache.org or svn.kde.org?
[22:52] <mwhudson> that contain squillions of projects
[22:53] <jelmer> mwhudson, that's trickier, though svn-import can import parts of the repository already
[22:55] <mwhudson> which, obscurely, reminds me to go check on a svnsync i've had running for days
[22:58] <lifeless> mtaylor: yes
[22:59] <lifeless> mwhudson: multipull
[23:00] <mtaylor> lifeless: yay!
[23:01] <mtaylor> lifeless: so - since you know everything... you wouldn't happen to know what the gcc option is that causes pointer values to be set to certain values indicating uninitialized and freed, would you?
[23:01] <mtaylor> lifeless: sometihng like ABBACDDC and BADDAFFA or something like that
[23:02] <lifeless> in forte?
[23:02] <mtaylor> is it in forte? I thought it was a gcc opt
[23:02] <mtaylor> that might explain why I haven't been able to find it in the gcc manual
[23:03] <lifeless> I'm fairly sure gcc doesn't, but othere compilers do (and I don't know which ones do)
[23:03] <lifeless> it came up in the past in standards-wrangling discussions
[23:03] <mtaylor> k. thanks.
[23:03] <lifeless> 'is NULL == 0L'
[23:03] <lifeless> and so on
[23:03] <mtaylor> yes. lovely conversations those must bre
[23:03] <LarstiQ> vila: hmm, no bialix. Sorry about earlier, but the conference wifi is pretty spotty at times
[23:03] <lifeless> oh yes
[23:06] <lifeless> mtaylor: if gcc has it it would be a -f option
[23:06] <lifeless> mtaylor: and you'd need to compile the closure of libraries
[23:06] <lifeless> [potentially]
[23:07] <lifeless> -fdelete-null-pointer-checks - nice
[23:10] <mtaylor> that's pretty
[23:27] <mneptok> oh no! The Other Monty has infected #bzr!
[23:27] <mneptok> *muah*
[23:32] <lifeless> mtaylor: a quick google.. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=11&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parasoft-embedded.com%2Fproducts%2Finsure.jsp&ei=m-NLSs79N5Pq6gOPyMDFBQ&usg=AFQjCNH33zIQ-AZmFK1aptLpTwE9x-6ZPg
[23:37]  * mtaylor is EVERYWHERE
[23:39] <fullermd> Really?


[00:18] <ScottL> quadrispro, don't worry about that thing I asked you to help me with, i already took care of it and it was a stupid mistake on my part
[00:19] <ScottL> forgot to "bzr add" to include the new install file :(    but it's fixed now :)
[00:20] <quadrispro> ScottL, I'm very very sorry, I got a flu and I was stuck for a week
[00:22] <ScottL> quadrispro, no, no, i took care of it right after we talked actually so i've been meaning to let you know that it's all good, no problem at all
[00:22] <quadrispro> ah fine, thanks
[00:23] <ScottL> TheMuso informed me that it needed to be done post haste since it was the plymouth theme and it was needed for the next beta
[17:36]  * abogani waves and as usual recall to all to
[17:37] <abogani> add comments for my application! :-)
[17:38] <rlameiro> abogani: what application?
[17:39] <abogani> rlameiro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlessioIgorBogani/linux-rtPPUApplication
[17:39] <rlameiro> abogani: I vote for you :DDDD
[17:40] <rlameiro> send it to the mailing list
[17:40] <rlameiro> the dev and the user
[17:40] <rlameiro> :D
[17:42] <abogani> rlameiro: Thanks. :)


[13:34] <jrwren> FYI: penguicon is looking for tech speakers.
[13:53] <cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, Kevin O'Brien is looking for folks willing to speak at Penguicon.
[13:54] <cmaloney> If anyone is interested please PM one of us and we'll send you his email address
[13:55] <brousch> Where can I rent a furry suit?
[13:56] <cmaloney> https://www.pinterest.com/michiganhumane/a-small-and-furrys-paradise/
[13:57] <cmaloney> brousch: I hope I gave you some pause with that link. :)
[13:58] <brousch> I actually know a few furries here
[14:02] <brousch> Hm, I could stay at my sister's house.  "With Incredible Psycho-Acoustic Experience" lol
[20:50] <rick_h_> though the usb hub in there is cool I guess, but it's usb2
[20:52] <brousch> But his is hand made
[20:52] <brousch> I expect a wooden version from you within 6 months
[20:52] <rick_h_> lol
[20:52] <rick_h_> I'll just keep using my kenisis and when not on this my thinkpad keyboards
[20:55] <cmaloney> I've enjoyed my Leopold keyboards, but they're on the cheaper-end
[20:55] <cmaloney> not as resiliant to my rages. :)
[20:56] <brousch> Your fingers lay on this thing for hours each day. Shouldn't they be touching keys you've hand-crafted with love?
[20:57] <cmaloney> brousch: Too many ways to go horribly wrong with that last sentence.
[20:58] <akelling> I always liked the MS Split keyboards that they have not made in years
[20:59] <akelling> Think they where called the Natrual line up and they where cheap too.
[21:01] <mthx|laptop> rick_h_: Filco looks decent. It's very bland though, and there is that problematic windows icon on the super key. I have been testing out one of my coworkers Das 4 Ultimates for a bit now and it feels and looks amazing. It feels so much better than my Logitech G105 and my Apple Keyboard. As important as function is, I also really appreciate how asthetically apealing the 4 Ultimate is, and also the 4C professional. I also detest havi
[21:01] <mthx|laptop> ng a windows icon on keyboard. The Das logo is an acceptable replacment. Yes, aesthetics are very important to me. Several mechanical keyboards never made it past the first round because they were horribly ugly (sorry Unicomp). I had not see filco before, but there's nothing stand out about the way it looks.
[21:06] <mthx|laptop> Correction* The one I've been testing is the DAS 3 Ultimate.
[21:09] <cmaloney> mthx|laptop: I'm surprised the Logitech G105 made it so far in your aesthetics filtering
[21:09] <cmaloney> That's one ugly keyboard. :)
[21:09] <mthx|laptop> It was a replacement keyboard for one that I spilled apple juice on a year or so ago :(  I needed something quick, so it was whatever best buy had.
[21:10] <cmaloney> yeah, anything Logitech G-series is ugly IMHO
[21:10] <cmaloney> Had one for a while, and returned it
[21:11] <cmaloney> Th eold amber one (not the one with the display)
[21:11] <mthx|laptop> Which btw, apple juice is nearly impossible to completely remove. I disassembled my old one several times and deep cleaned it, but it was forever sticky.
[21:12] <cmaloney> Yeah, it's as bad as Mt. Dew


[10:24] <sivaji_2009> Failed to fetch http://lk.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper-backports/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[10:24] <sivaji_2009> Reading package lists... Done
[10:24] <sivaji_2009> E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
[10:24] <freeride> I'm running dapper
[10:24] <freeride> there is an admin mode button for display
[10:24] <freeride> but not desktop
[10:24] <freeride> if thats what you mean
[10:25] <BluesKaj> yup
[10:25] <freeride> I upgraded to edgy but it wouldnt start x after I installed all the packages because of a video conflict
[10:25] <freeride> so I just re-installed dapper
[10:25] <sivaji_2009> yup means
[10:25] <BluesKaj> yes
[10:25] <stdin> sivaji_2009: yup means yes
[10:25] <freeride> so anyways, I've been reading the known issues
[10:25] <freeride> and there is a scrensaver bug in dapper
[10:26] <rmarianski> freeride: did you use the update-manager to install edgy? I just upgraded to edgy from dapper and it's working fine
[10:26] <sivaji_2009> can u see the error report
[10:26] <freeride> but I need someone who understands this a little bit more than I do
[10:26] <freeride> corymon77 helped me install edguy by changing my sources list and doing a sudo apt-get
[10:26] <freeride> we spent most of last night doing that
[10:27] <freeride> but it wouldnt start x so I just re-installed dapper
[10:27] <rmarianski> freeride: i've read in a few places and on the forums that using apt-get is less reliable than going through the update-manager
[10:27] <rmarianski> freeride: you may want to try again using the update-manager
[10:27] <freeride> when you say update manager, do you mean adept?
[10:27] <stdin> sivaji_2009: try changing "http://lk.archive.ubuntu.com dapper-backports main" to "http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper-backports main"
[10:27] <rmarianski> freeride: no .. there's an actual tool to upgrade called upgrade-manager
[10:27] <stdin> sivaji_2009: in /etc/apt/sources.list
[10:28] <BluesKaj> freeride, "sudo-dpkg reconfigure xserver-xorg"
[10:28] <rmarianski> freeride: err sorry ... update-manager
[10:28] <freeride> this is more than I want to tackle right now guys, I'd like to just get my screensaver working in dapper
[10:29] <rmarianski> freeride: the reconfigure might work also ... see this post: http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2006/10/aptget_distupgrade_broken_goin.html
[10:29] <BluesKaj> most of us are using edgy ...my experience in dapper is kinda limited , altho it's pretty straightforward with the scrnsver, if i remember correctly
[10:30] <BluesKaj> !pastebin
[10:30] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[10:33] <redcliffe> hi all - i'm having some difficulties installing kubuntu 6.10 amd64
[10:34] <BluesKaj> rmarianski, the "reconfigure" worked for me yesterday
[10:34] <redcliffe> a lot of the time the installer freezes, and when i finally did get it to install in text mode it freezes about 10 seconds after getting to the kdm login prompt
[10:34] <redcliffe> yet debian on same machine is still running fine
[10:34] <freeride> if I set the screen saver priority to high and then apply it and then go back and check, it's back to low, it doesnt stay, what am I doing wrong?
[10:35] <redcliffe> any ideas what could be going wrong?
[10:46] <sts9> I tried installing kde4 and my copy did not some with "/usr/lib/kde4/share/apps/kdm/sessions/kde.desktop" as the directions state.  the only kde.desktop file that came with kde4 is "/usr/lib/kde4/share/services/searchproviders/kde.desktop" and that one says is named KDE API Documentation
[10:47] <sts9> anyone else try kde4 in full session?
[10:47] <ArrAKeeN> hi
[10:48] <sts9> hmm kde4libs did not install with kde4base-dev package
[10:59] <braddoro> is it possible to reinstall kubuntu and not       blow away   your home                                        directories?
[11:00] <braddoro> theya re ont heir own drive
[11:01] <braddoro> sorry for all of the extra spaces
[11:07] <stdin> braddoro: you could try to do a normal install and just don't format (you may need the alternate CD)
[11:07] <braddoro> stdin: thank you
[11:07] <stdin> np
[11:09] <mxwlpxwl> hello....i am having trouble running applications from the command line. i receive the error Gtk *** cannot connect to display. I've tried xhost + and exporting the display, but nothing is working
[11:09] <hepme> how can i open a .iso file without burning it to cd? (like using daemon tools in windows)
[11:10] <stdin> mxwlpxwl: run them as a normal user (not root)
[11:10] <stdin> hepme: sudo mount -t iso9660 /path/to/image.iso /path/to/mount -o loop
[11:11] <mxwlpxwl> yes, that will work, but i want to be able to run them as root also
[11:11] <Pirate-king> anybody try the fiesty fawn distro of kubuntu?
[11:11] <stdin> mxwlpxwl: then use 'sudo command'
[11:12] <stdin> Pirate-king: yeah, i'm running it now
[11:12] <Pirate-king> it runnis on my laptop as a live cd
[11:12] <Pirate-king> but
[11:12] <Pirate-king> when I go to install it craps out at the keyboard
[11:12] <Pirate-king> the screen
[11:13] <mxwlpxwl> stdin: yes, i know i can execute commands as root in that manner, but i would like to execute commands from a root login shell
[11:13] <Pirate-king> goes all blue
[11:13] <stdin> Pirate-king: I used the alternate CD, only problem is hda is called sda with the 2.6.19 kernel
[11:13] <rmarianski> mxwlpxwl: try something called "sux" apt-get install sux; sudo sux; xeyes
[11:14] <Pirate-king> yeah I tried that one
[11:14] <mxwlpxwl> rmarinanski: thnx
[11:14] <stdin> mxwlpxwl: all I need to do, to do that is 'xhost +LOCAL:' (as the normal user), then 'DISPLAY=:0 command' (as root)
[11:14] <Pirate-king> tring to install with an xp partion
[11:16] <rmarianski> stdin: i tried that and it works great, thx
[11:16] <stdin> you're welcome :D
[11:16] <genii> Happy New Years to some already :) Not here tho for about 6 3/4 hrs
[11:17] <genii> stdin How'd the herd1 update go?
[11:17] <mxwlpxwl> stdin: thanx. that seemed to work
[11:17] <stdin> hey, genii
[11:17] <stdin> the upgrade went ok actually :P
[11:17] <genii> stdin Hi :) Good to know
[11:19] <stdin> openoffice still isn't upgradable yet, but you can work around it
[11:19] <genii> anyone get Conexant HSF/HCF modem drivers compiled under Edgy or Feisty yet?
[11:19] <genii> stdin Standard dist is what, 2.02?
[11:20] <genii> (OOo)
[11:20] <stdin> 2.1-1 is the upgrade candidate
[11:21] <genii> Ah OK
[11:21] <stdin> 2.0.4 is the dist default
[11:21] <stdin> (just had to check :P )
[11:21] <genii> :)
[11:22] <stdin> gotta get another drink, brb :P
[11:22] <genii> damn, new years eve and I'm feeling antisocial re: going out someplace etc
[11:23] <BluesKaj> <---staying home tonite, genii...freezing rain here
[11:24] <BluesKaj> small town ...few cabs and the driver are prolly out of it anyway
[11:24] <dwidmann> freezing rain, the best kind :)
[11:24] <hatta> we just got hit with 6 in of snow
[11:25] <BluesKaj> hatta, where ?
[11:25] <hatta> omaha
[11:25] <braddoro> i am trying to install kubuntu over and older installation, but I don't know which option to choose in order to preserve my home dirs
[11:26] <braddoro> resize IDE1 partition 6 and use freed space, erase hard disk (not this one) or manually edit partition table
[11:26] <BluesKaj> Northern Ontario....very little snow ...been raining for a month
[11:26] <braddoro> none of them sound good
[11:27] <genii> Drizzling a bit in Toronto
[11:27] <dwidmann> braddoro: if you had been wanting to keep your home directory, you should have put the home directory on a seperate partition to begin with ...
[11:27] <redcliffe> hi all - got problems with the 6.10 dvd for amd64, when it tries to switch to a higher graphic mode on install it freezes and the screens go blank
[11:27] <braddoro> drizzling rain in CHarlotte NC
[11:27] <BluesKaj> save them to a dvd/cd if possible and copy after re installing
[11:27] <braddoro> dwidmann: it is on a seperate partition
[11:28] <redcliffe> when i finally got it installed in text mode it freezes when i finally reach kdm
[11:28] <hatta> I thought I might go across town for a show tonight, but now I'll just stay at home and play with music software
[11:28] <braddoro> and I can't get the OS to boot in order to save them
[11:28] <redcliffe> the kdm login prompt comes up but freezes
[11:28] <just-this-time> pls help with this. komba2 ->mount all gives error smbmnt must be installed suid root
[11:28] <stdin> braddoro: manually edit the partition table, set it up as it was before, but make sure to choose not to format (or uncheck format)
[11:28] <genii> If you know which partition it uses manually edit option. Make /home the same again and tell it not to format that one
[11:29] <genii> stdin LOL
[11:29] <BluesKaj> redcliffe, have you tried configuring the graphics drivers in sys/settings
[11:29] <stdin> genii: his /home is on the same partition as  /
[11:29] <redcliffe> BluesKaj: where do i do that?
[11:29] <braddoro> stdin: thanks
[11:29] <hatta> anyone know some good tablature software?
[11:29] <redcliffe> BluesKaj: from the initial boot cd menu?
[11:29] <genii> I thought he just said /home was already on a separate partition....
[11:29] <hatta> difficulty: I'm playing the mandolin
[11:30] <BluesKaj> redcliffe, no it won't "take" there , do it after you install the OS
[11:30] <redcliffe> BluesKaj: well i can't get logged in to do that
[11:31] <stdin> genii: it may be, i'm in an easily confused state
[11:31] <redcliffe> i manually changed the settings in recovery mode in xorg.conf to use the nv driver, that got me to kdm, but no further as it locks up
[11:32] <BluesKaj> redcliffe, live cd?
[11:33] <genii> vesa driver *should* work in some safe setting to get kdm /X operational usually
[11:33] <redcliffe> BluesKaj: yep the kubuntu 6.10 amd64 live cd/install
[11:33] <redcliffe> burnt from the iso
[11:34] <BluesKaj> eeeww , the amd64 is buggy redcliffe , i dropped it due to allit's probs with hardware recognition and conf .... switched to x86
[11:34] <dwidmann> amd64 is only buggy on buggy hardware :P
[11:35] <redcliffe> ah ok, pity, wanted to get up on a 64 bit system
[11:35] <stdin> heh, that's true
[11:35] <BluesKaj> <--- amd64 cpu but running 32bit x86 edgy
[11:35] <genii> hatta Something called Lilypond looks interesting but I have not used it
[11:35] <redcliffe> dwidmann: yeah i've an albatron motherboard that's given me nothing but trouble, so figured it may be the problem
[11:35] <BluesKaj> there is no advantage to 64
[11:36] <dwidmann> there can be plenty of advantage to 64-bit, depending on what you do
[11:36] <BluesKaj> more trouble than it's worth
[11:36] <stdin> my BIOS is buggy, but that's what I expect from HP
[11:36] <redcliffe> depends what you're doing
[11:36] <hatta> genii, I'll check it out
[11:36] <BluesKaj> yeajh dwidmann, like ?
[11:37] <BluesKaj> dwidmann, try to convince me :)
[11:37] <genii> .
[11:37] <dwidmann> one sec, I had a goody laying around here somewhere
[11:37] <genii> sorry, keyboard burp
[11:37] <redcliffe> BluesKaj: 64 bit math for scientific simulations
[11:37] <stdin> 64bit is good if you have 4GB+ RAM and/or need very presice math
[11:38] <Sanne_> genii: you made your point (lol)
[11:38] <redcliffe> i use libgmp a lot, and 64 bit is useful for that
[11:38] <dwidmann> I hear rendering and encoding can be made quite a bit faster by using a 64-bit os.
[11:38] <redcliffe> but a working system is more important atm lol
[11:38] <genii> Sanne_ heh
[11:39] <redcliffe> alright thanks BluesKaj all, i'll try the x86 version
[11:39] <braddoro> well I either did it right, or I just blew away my home dirs
[11:40] <genii> hatta Apparently there is also an openoffice plugin for Lilypond also
[11:41] <genii> braddoro As long as you selected not to format /home you should be OK :) Just make sure ou have the same username as before afterwards
[11:41] <braddoro> will it overwrite it if I have the same username? when it creates my home dir
[11:41] <braddoro> I was wondering about that
[11:42] <braddoro> i was thinking I would use a differenet username and copy everything
[11:42] <genii> braddoror If you're unsure of using adduser etc   you could manually insert the name with vipw if you know how to use that
[11:43] <braddoro> i know how to add a user
[11:43] <braddoro> i just didn't know if I should do it durning the install
[11:43] <braddoro> i don't know if it will reinitialize my home dir if it already exists
[11:44] <genii> braddoro If you "man adduser" you can see the switch for not creating home dir etc
[11:45] <dwidmann> aha, I found what I was looking for
[11:45] <dwidmann> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=318743
[11:47] <ethos_> Anyone here ever used Iodine (IP-over-DNS)?
[11:48] <genii> 80 over 53?
[11:48] <ethos_> IP tunneling through DNS server
[11:49] <genii> Hmm no, sorry. Sounds intriguing however
[11:50] <stdin> what would you use it for?
[11:50] <genii> Have you looked at gre?
[11:50] <ethos_> It really is.  Supposed to be able to tunnel IP traffic from home through DNS server to the airport or wherever you have to pay for access but still can reach DNS.
[11:50] <stdin> ooh, that dose sound nice
[11:51] <ethos_> I finally got it to run, but it says "retrying..." 5 times and stops.  I think my home computer might have gone into standby or something.
[11:51] <ethos_> Should be usefull for me since I work at the airport.
[11:51] <genii> So just piggypack tcp 80 stuff over some airport wireless provider like Wayport's DNS?
[11:52] <ethos_> That's the idea, I think.  I'm still learning.
[11:53] <ethos_> I setup a DNS server to route to my home IP and run iodine at home.  Then I run iodine on my laptop, supposed to make a tunnel through the DNS server.
[11:53] <genii> Interesting. I think this may only work if no port masquerading is involved
[11:53] <ethos_> I'm so close I can taste it.
[11:53] <BluesKaj> dwidmann, nowhere does it mention the lack of hardware recognition with edgy 64 ...that's my complaint .. I had numerous probs with sound and video and software for vudeo codec conversions etc
[11:54] <genii> 6.10 generally is having some iisues ith wireless and video for some reasons
[11:54] <ethos_> I can ping the local wayport DNS, I can ping my DNS to my home IP too.  Should be working.
[11:54] <dwidmann> BluesKaj: No problems with my hardware ;) I built this system with 64-bit Linux in mind of course. As for other things, most are generally pretty easy to work around.
[11:54] <ethos_> Maybe I don't understand masquerading or, more simply, my home computer is stalled.
[11:55] <lovloss> How do you browse the gui as root in kde? im used to gksudo nautilus.
[11:55] <dwidmann> lovloss: kdesu konqueror
[11:56] <lovloss> aha
[11:56] <BluesKaj> well, i've got this x86 version almost totally working to my liking ...not gonna switch now :)
[11:56] <lovloss> this kde is different than gnome alright
[11:57] <stdin> yes, kde is better :P
[11:57] <genii> ethos_ Likely your home setup needs to be that port 53 has to pass straight through to the machine which is doing DNSbehind it
[11:57] <lovloss> It seems to be more capable with applications than gnome.
[11:58] <hepme> how do you get to the desktop in kde from the mouse? so i dont have to do ctrl+alt+d, in gnome there's an icon you can click like in windows
[11:58] <genii> eg: forwarded straight thru, not masqueraded
[11:58] <lovloss> though im a bit mad that the add/remove manager crashes if i select "all suites" with "unsupported"
[11:59] <BluesKaj> hepme, startkde in the console
[11:59] <braddoro> YAY - all of my hone dirs are still there, thanks for the help folks
[11:59] <ethos_> I need to study iptables.  It's getting complicated.  :)
[11:59] <hepme> BluesKaj: huh
[12:00] <stdin> hepme: there is a "Show Desktop" applet
[12:00] <hepme> where
[12:00] <genii> ethos_ If you have a hardware router you don't need iptables etc much, can all be done in the router
[12:00] <dwidmann> hepme: right click the panel -> add applet to panel
[12:01] <stdin> there ^^^
[12:01] <genii> Only if that machine is in DMZ etc you should have filtering on the box directly
[12:01] <BluesKaj> hepme , do you know what the console is ?
[12:01] <ethos_> I'm directly connected.  I wonder if wayport uses routing.
[12:02] <genii> ethos_ I probed their networks a couple years ack and I can tell you they have a very secure setup on Debian
[12:02] <hepme> Blueskaj yes but you misunderstood my question :p
[12:02] <T3hWiz0rd> Linux_Galore: i'm gonna h4x0r j00 buahahhaa
[12:02] <hepme> thanks dwidmann that worked
[12:02] <T3hWiz0rd> Linux_Galore: 0.o... lol
[12:02] <stdin> hepme: it bay be in the kdeaddons package, (which I recommend you install anyway because it has some cool applets in it) :P
[12:02] <lovloss> whats the kde equivalent of gedit?
[12:02] <genii> Kate
[12:02] <T3hWiz0rd> lovloss: vim ftw!
[12:02] <genii> or Kwrite
[12:02] <stdin> or kedit :P
[12:03] <dwidmann> kate, kedit, and kwrite are the editors that seem to float around ....
[12:03] <ethos_> Debian?  Wow.  That's interesting and depressing at the same time.  Meaning I may not be able to tunnel.
[12:03] <genii> stdin :)
[12:03] <lovloss> kdesu kate .... ?
[12:03] <stdin> lovloss: yeah, that'll work
[12:03] <genii> lovloss Yes, or any of the others mentioned
[12:03] <T3hWiz0rd> lovloss: you do know that (to my knowledge) kdesu shows your password as plain text.
[12:03] <hepme> which package is gvim?
[12:03] <ethos_> At least I can still ues my cell as a modem.
[12:04] <stdin> lovloss: tho I prefire 'sudo nano ...' :)
[12:04] <lovloss> ohhh ok
[12:04] <lovloss> ill sudo :3
[12:04] <BluesKaj> can someone answer hepme ... we're not communicating very well
[12:04] <T3hWiz0rd> stdin: if vim heard you use nano it would eat your spleen for dessert.
[12:04] <hepme> Blueskaj they answered my show-desktop question
[12:05] <genii> ethos_ Their setup has holes. as user "nobody" I was able to print off on their network printers that they bettter fix some user priveledges
[12:05] <hepme> waiting for my gvim question though :) i think it's vim-gtk?
[12:05] <T3hWiz0rd> stdin: don't be afraid of vim, embrace it
[12:05] <dwidmann> hepme: it's the vim-gtk package
[12:05] <hepme> vim isn't hard, you only have to learn a handful of commands to do most things, plus if you get gvim it has menus
[12:05] <stdin> can't, I'm vim-o-phobic
[12:05] <Rob-West> y can i access my PC from windows
[12:05] <dom> vim-full has it too iirc
[12:05] <hepme> it just has a TON of features you can use optionally if you ever want to,
[12:06] <genii> stdin I'm vim-o-phobic also LOL
[12:06] <hepme> if you can use man pages you can use vim
[12:06] <genii> <-- nano, pico   etc
[12:07] <hepme> think of it like a pager program where you can type commands without having to press the ctrl key first, and whenever you want to edit you just hit 'i' to go into 'insert text mode' and when you want to go back to command mode you just hit escape. thats IT
[12:07] <hepme> simple
[12:07] <dwidmann> vim-tiny is the scourge of the the universe :\
[12:07] <genii> dwidmann I must agree
[12:07] <Rob-West> !help
[12:07] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot.