[01:54] <C4mbone> Anyone can help me? I've a issue with my headphone, It doesn't work. In audio control it doesn't show the option of output devices. In alsamix shows the headphone bar off with the letters "MM" and i can't change it. HELP.
[02:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> !morehelp | C4mbone


[00:06] <rockstar> jelmer, ping
[00:15] <lifeless> spiv: 78->25
[00:15] <bignose> lifeless: if you have the bandwitch available, your input on the above questions for loom and quilt would be appreciated
[00:15] <bignose> s/witch/width/
[00:16] <lifeless> bignose: hmm, thought there was a bug open; filing one
[00:17] <lifeless> I want bzr send to generate a patch series
[00:19] <lifeless> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr-loom/+bug/336470
[00:19] <poolie> lifeless: do you have any ideas about bug 336267?
[00:21] <lifeless> poolie: something has mangled the actual error, but from its phrasing I'd guess at zlib
[00:21] <poolie> yes
[00:21] <lifeless> poolie: (phrasing and being in the header parsing stage)
[00:21] <poolie> it seems like a very low-level error to be caused by us
[00:21] <lifeless> I don't think its a bzr bug, though it might be. I'd instead be expecting bad data
[00:21] <poolie> i thought so too
[00:22] <lifeless> its on the client side
[00:22] <lifeless> and its in the pack repo code
[00:22] <lifeless> so its using regular vfs methods; and spiv and I haven't done anything nasty to those
[00:22] <bignose> lifeless: thanks for the response, and the bug report
[00:23] <lifeless> bignose: the send -r thread:..-1 loop is missing a 'bzr switch next-thread' in it, if you want to reproduce by hand
[00:25] <bignose> why would I choose ‘send’ over ‘diff’ in this case?
[00:33] <lifeless> I realise its at my end, but please use plain ascii for this conversation, otherwise I can't read what you are typing.
[00:33] <lifeless> I saw "why would I choose a over a in this case?"
[00:38] <fbond> Does anyone here use trac-bzr?  Can anyone tell me if it is capable of working with multiple branches?
[00:41] <fbond> I get the feeling that it is supposed, to, but I'm only able to successfully browse the branch containing the most recent revision.
[00:43] <bignose> lifeless: why would I choose 'send' over 'diff' in this case?
[00:43] <lifeless> bignose: if you're submitting to bzr users, use send. If you're submitting to non-bzr users, you can use send or diff
[00:44] <lifeless> bignose: send includes the revision metadata and any dependent history to allow a normal merge to be done at the far end
[00:47] <bignose> okay. since in this instance I'm only generating the patch for use with quilt, I'll just use diff.
[01:01] <greg-g> What is the correct workflow for maintaining two branches of a project with a "dev" and a release branch (eg: 1.0)?  Do I commit to dev, then pull that commit from dev to the 1.0 branch somehow? or just commit to both separately (which would have the possibility of non-mergeable branches later, right? I might be wrong with this)
[01:13] <poolie> greg-g: definitely don't make unrelated commits to both
[01:13] <poolie> i'd consider having actually a branch per individual release on 1.0
[01:13] <poolie> like 1.1, 1.2, etc
[01:14] <poolie> otherwise, either merge in to 1.0 and then do bzr ci -m "release 1.0.1"
[01:14] <poolie> or just pull
[01:14] <poolie> either would work
[01:14] <greg-g> our 1.0 is the branch that we are going to release as 1.0 when we feel it is ready. basically a "stable" branch
[01:14] <poolie> the first will be better if you ever need to do little fixes directly in 1.0 to fix packaging bugs for examlpe
[01:14] <poolie> oh i see
[01:14] <poolie> so the other thing is, it's generally easier to merge from a more-stable branch into a less-stable
[01:15] <poolie> than vice versa
[01:15] <poolie> so i'd consider, for any work that will land in 1.0
[01:15] <poolie> doing it in a branch based off 1.0
[01:15] <poolie> then merging to 1.0, and then either merging all of that back to trunk, or merging the individual bits
[01:15] <poolie> this is not so much for technical reasons as just that as the software changes
[01:16] <poolie> it tends to be easier to update your 1.0 changes to fit other stuff than to backport your fixes
[01:16] <greg-g> so for things that are more or less self-contained commits, put in 1.0, then merge to dev from there. but what about things that are partially implemented but we want to test with dev?
[01:16] <poolie> how do you mean partially implemented?
[01:16] <greg-g> then later, when completed, merge only that feature into 1.0
[01:17] <poolie> igc, btw thanks for fixing the status html; what was wrong?
[01:17] <poolie> igc, also, maybe i should change it to order bzr-dev first?
[01:17] <poolie> greg-g: ok i think i understand
[01:17] <poolie> i would: make a branch off 1.0, implement it there
[01:17] <poolie> and primarily test there
[01:17] <poolie> if, before you're finished, you also want to check how well it will mesh with dev
[01:17] <poolie> make *another* branch coming dev, merge your new features in to that
[01:18] <poolie> then when you're done, you merge those two work branches in to 1.0 and dev respectively
[01:18] <greg-g> gotcha
[01:19] <greg-g> would cherrypicking also be an acceptable way to handle that (cherrypick it from dev to 1.0)?
[01:21] <greg-g> I saw there was something about bzr not tracking cherrypicked revisions.  I'm too knew to understand where that will have an adverse effect in the future.
[01:23] <igc> poolie: status html? you mean the colouring?
[01:24] <igc> poolie: I think the first tool ought to be bzr-current, i.e. the currently released version
[01:24] <igc> bzr.dev ought to be compared to that
[01:24] <igc> poolie: I'm not sure looking at earlier versions (before bzr-current) buys much
[01:25] <igc> poolie: the 3 interesting versions IMO are bzr-current bzr-dev bzr-brisbane
[01:26] <igc> lifeless: bzr selftest groupcompress is failing because ...
[01:27] <igc> 1. I haven't compiled the groupcompress_c stuff using pyrex
[01:27] <igc> 2. some other issue
[01:27] <igc> lifeless: it looks like the tests are *meant* to skip ...
[01:27] <igc> the compiled tests if the compiled stuff isn't there?
[01:28] <spiv> no
[01:28] <igc> I wonder if setUp() happens before tests_needs_feature?
[01:28] <spiv> (^ that was <lifeless>)
[01:28]  * spiv & lifeless -> food
[01:48] <lifeless> igc: possibly; for now, just build them :)
[01:52] <poolie> igc, i was thinking bzr-dev first because that's what we're more likely to change for good or ill
[01:52] <poolie> also i should check current is in fact current now :)
[01:54] <lifeless> as we have a current now, that should be easier to maintain :)
[01:54] <lifeless> greg-g: the adverse effect is fairly small and isolated. Its two things:
[01:54] <lifeless>  - you can't use bzr to report 'what has been cherrypicked'
[01:55] <lifeless>  - you may get spurious conflicts on subsequent merges if you change the line of code further
[01:55] <poolie> greg-g: what robert says is correct, but it's not so much about bzr capabilities
[01:55] <poolie> more that it's actually easier for you to write it in 90% of cases if you do not cherrypick
[01:55] <poolie> but keep it separate to start with
[01:58] <greg-g> lifeless / poolie thanks! I think I've got it figured out now.
[01:59] <lifeless> greg-g: anytime
[02:11] <mwhudson> poolie, spiv: could one of you make the tweaks you ask for for my "LockableFiles.__del__ must die" as you land it?
[02:11] <poolie> no promises but i'll try
[02:12] <mwhudson> thanks
[02:21] <lifeless> jam: ping
[02:32] <poolie> abentley: BB is down
[02:34] <abentley> poolie: restarted
[02:35] <poolie> thanks
[02:55]  * igc food
[03:59] <lmiller> Hi
[04:21] <poolie> gar too much mail
[04:22] <fullermd> I have some ideas on how to handle that.  I'll send you an email about it...
[04:26] <contingencyplan> Have a question for you guy, if anybody's around:
[04:26] <contingencyplan> I'm currently using mercurial, but I've hit a brick wall, so seeing if bazaar can handle this better.
[04:27] <contingencyplan> I have a repository with a subdirectory in it with code. When I started making the repository, I was the only one using it, so that was fine, but now I'm in another project that also needs that code.
[04:28] <contingencyplan> How easy is it to have 2 bazaar repositories that share a common code-base? Ideally, I want that common code-base to be transparent to each repository - for my private repository, it looks and acts just like it always has, for the new repository there's no apparent difference whether it's in that repository or stored elsewhere.
[04:28] <contingencyplan> (sorry for the lengthy msg there)
[04:29] <lifeless> contingencyplan: there is a merge-into plugin that can join the two brances
[04:39] <lmiller> Anyone know how to get the bzrbuildbot plugin working with a central bzr repository?
[04:39] <lmiller> From what I can tell, each user needs to put it in their own plugins dir
[04:42]  * igc bbiab
[04:46] <lifeless> lmiller: what hook does it use?
[04:47] <lmiller> on change
[04:48] <lmiller> post_change_branch_tip I believe
[04:50] <lifeless> lmiller: that will run on the server
[04:51] <lifeless> lmiller: as long as you're pushing with bzr 1.6 or so, and over bzr+ssh, not sftp or webdav.
[04:51] <lmiller> lifeless: It requires a location.conf file, but I don't seem to have anywhere to place it on the server
[04:51] <lmiller> where the server will find it I mean
[04:52] <lifeless> lmiller: you can configure the same settings in branch.conf
[04:52] <lifeless> in the branch you want to test
[04:53] <lmiller> So, if I wanted to trigger the main branch, I would edit branch.conf inside the repos (eg /repos/main/proj/.bzr/branch/ )?
[04:54] <lmiller> I'm coming from svn, so excuse me if I ask nervously about editing files inside the repository ... heh heh
[04:54] <lifeless> yah, repos/main/proj/.bzr/branch/branch.conf, if your branch is bzr+ssh://host/repos/main/proj
[04:54] <lifeless> its not ideal, we want a better answer here, but it will work :)
[05:36] <lmiller> exceptions.NameError: global name 'failure' is not defined
[05:36] <lmiller> Ah, I love programming
[05:37] <lifeless> :P
[05:48] <mwhudson> flymake-mode ftw
[05:52] <jml> so, it looks like bzr-svn really really really wants more than 360MB of RAM
[05:57] <lmiller> lifeless: Thanks for that ... all working now
[06:25] <lifeless> lmiller: cool
[07:33] <vila> Hi all ! :-)
[07:35] <fullermd> Wow, that's way too chipper.  You obviously have coffee you need to share...
[07:40] <vila> fullermd: hehe, no, same coffee as usual, but some days are better than others, just from the start (the opposite is also true...)
[08:09] <poolie> vila: hello, welcome!
[08:16]  * igc dinner
[08:18] <vila> poolie: thanks :)
[08:23] <poolie> vila, want to talk?
[08:23] <vila> poolie: with pleasure
[08:24] <poolie> could you call me here then?
[08:25] <vila> sure
[09:07] <lifeless> ok, stream branching collection of patches all landed
[09:07] <lifeless> tomorrow, streaming from stacked
[09:12] <poolie> hi
[09:12] <poolie> way to go
[09:22] <poolie> vila, does bug 336582 look familar to you at all?
[09:23] <vila> poolie: didn't Andrew mention that on the list today ?
[09:24] <poolie> it sounded familiar somehow
[09:24] <vila> poolie: hmm, he mentioned hpss not sftp though
[09:29] <spiv> vila: yeah, my patch wouldn't affect sftp
[09:30] <poolie> tired -> good night all
[09:31] <spiv> Weird that the traceback involves SFTP, but the test doesn't run at all if FTPServer is missing.
[09:32] <spiv> I suspect the test is not granular enough...
[09:33] <lifeless> gnight poolie
[10:43] <lifeless> igc: ping
[10:44] <igc> hi lifeless
[10:45] <lifeless> so I've replied to your mail
[10:45] <lifeless> short story though is that you need to be digging deeper, and I'd like to help you do that
[10:47]  * igc reads email
[10:49] <igc> lifeless: thanks. I've got to run right now - might be back later
[10:49] <lifeless> igc: ok, well I may be up; if I am, skype will know :P
[10:52] <lifeless> igc: and if so, chat/call me on skype, I doubt I'll have irc in front of me
[10:57] <igc> lifeless: still there?
[10:57] <lifeless> yes
[10:57] <igc> so no fast path is running
[10:57] <igc> in log -v currently
[10:58] <lifeless> well then :P
[10:58] <igc> what routine are you thinking of?
[10:58] <lifeless> CHKInventory._make_delta(aCHKInventory)
[10:58] <lifeless> line 1709 in my copy of inventory.py
[10:59] <lifeless> if you're not hitting that, then you're not seeing CHK delta generation, and it will blow chunks.
[10:59] <lifeless> if you are seeing that, you're at least getting some of the work done by the CHK core
[11:00]  * igc pulls up profiling data
[11:00] <lifeless> but unless you have an lsprof run, its going to be very hard to tell whats going on :)
[11:01] <igc> lifeless: 77% of time in iter_changes() - inventory.py line 1655
[11:02] <igc> no calls to make_delta
[11:02] <lifeless> ok
[11:02] <lifeless> thats the CHKInventory fast path
[11:02] <lifeless> so, I'd look at what its doing
[11:03] <lifeless> (or it should be - is it CHKInventory.iter_changes?)
[11:03] <igc> lifeless: oh, I know what's its doing ...
[11:03] <igc> reo.get_delta_for_revisions() builds trees and calls tree.changes_from() -> delta._compare_trees -> iter_changes
[11:03] <igc> s/reo/repo/
[11:04] <igc> lifeless: yes, CHKInventory.iter_changes()
[11:05] <lifeless> ok, that all seems normal
[11:05] <lifeless> so we're looking at the right code path
[11:06] <lifeless> now, it may be doing duplicate work
[11:06] <lifeless> it may be discarding one side of the trees, or things may not be getting kept in ram once loaded
[11:06] <lifeless> I'd be inclined to instrument
[11:06] <lifeless> finding duplicate CHK page reads, for instance
[11:06] <lifeless> a cheap way of detecting this
[11:06] <lifeless> is too look in the call graph
[11:06] <lifeless> if you're doing (say) a 100 revision range
[11:07] <lifeless> and you see 1M get_record_stream calls
[11:07] <lifeless> then something suspect is going on
[11:07] <lifeless> remember that there is nearly _no_ optimisation in here at the moment
[11:07] <lifeless> assume that the core data structures are decent - John is tuning them, and they have passed all our design checks along the way
[11:08] <igc> lifeless: ok, so 1000 revisions -> 15830 get_record_streams calls in groupcompress
[11:08] <lifeless> 15 pages per revision
[11:08] <lifeless> what project?
[11:09] <igc> first 1k revisions of wordpress
[11:09] <lifeless> how big is wordpress, files in the tree
[11:11] <igc> lifeless: small, 142 files
[11:11] <lifeless> so
[11:12] <lifeless> we expect
[11:12] <lifeless> 1 read to get the inventory, 1 to get the root of the dir map, 1 to get the root of the inventory entry map
[11:12] <lifeless> (roughly)
[11:12] <lifeless> so we can explain 3K reads
[11:13] <lifeless> that leaves 12K reads to calculate the differences, but 142 entries isn't many
[11:14] <lifeless> to get 15 reads per diff, I'd expect more files or many very large changes
[11:14] <lifeless> so - I suggest using my patch for VersionedFileDecorator to whip up a little LoggingVersionedFile
[11:14] <lifeless> and decorate the chk versioned file object on the repository
[11:15] <lifeless> then dump the log to disk after the operation, and we can look for repeated requests
[11:15] <igc> lifeless: interesting
[11:15] <lifeless> you only need to care about get_record_stream, and the keys parameter
[11:16] <lifeless> an interesting test would be diffing one revision
[11:16] <lifeless> log -v 1..2
[11:16] <igc> yes
[11:16] <lifeless> for instance
[11:16] <igc> lifeless:I'll start digging deeper - thanks for your help
[11:17] <lifeless> my pleasure
[11:17] <lifeless> I'm oing to play computer games for a bit
[11:17] <lifeless> I'll check back in a while
[12:12] <djr> Is there anyone around who understands how to install from source (bzr-*.tar.gz) on linux, please?
[12:15] <_MMA_> Ok. So it's 8hrs later and a upload to a branch I was working on is still locked. "bzr break-lock" does nothing and the recommended command to use when it tells me the branch is locked tells me: "bzr: ERROR: Unsupported protocol for url "lp-45955728:///~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-icon-theme/UbuntuStudio/.bzr/repository/lock"
[12:18] <djr> Installing bzr from source is supposed to require only Python, right? So why does it fail trying to run gcc?
[12:18] <lifeless> _MMA_: "bzr break-lock lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-icon-theme/UbuntuStudio"
[12:18] <lifeless> djr: it tries to build the C accelerators, if you don't have them then you can still just run from source
[12:19] <lifeless> djr: but we recommend building them, it makes a big performance difference
[12:20] <_MMA_> lifeless: Thanx man. I don't know whether I should file a bug. The suggestion it gives seems wrong.
[12:21] <lifeless> _MMA_: there is one about the url it gives being bad,and another that we should auto-break in some situations
[12:22] <_MMA_> Ok. I'll just hope it resolves itself. ;)
[12:25] <_MMA_> lifeless: Maybe you can tell about one more. I have a bunch of older branches. So I'll get the "please use 'bzr upgrade' to get better performance" warning from time to time. So, I do. But then when going to upload after that, after upgrading, I get the warning again. Am I missing something?
[12:26] <lifeless> _MMA_: you need to upgrade each instance - so you need to upgrade where you are pushing to
[12:27] <lifeless> there is a bug/limitation in upgrade at the moment with launchpad; you need to use 'bzr upgrade sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-icon-theme/UbuntuStudio' rather than 'bzr upgrade lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-icon-theme/UbuntuStudio'
[12:28] <_MMA_> lifeless: Oh sure sure. Each branch. I didn't mean to imply that I wanted to do it once and it would be fixed for all.
[12:28] <lifeless> :)
[12:29] <_MMA_> I will upgrade a branch. Then on same branch, get the warning again.
[12:29] <lifeless> _MMA_: do you have a shared repo?
[12:30] <_MMA_> ~ubuntustudio-dev's yeah.
[12:30] <lifeless> on your laptop/workstation I mean
[12:30] <lifeless> launchpad doesn't have shared repos
[12:31] <_MMA_> Oh Oh. ie: 2 machines that work on network shared folder?
[12:32] <_MMA_> Both have access to some BZR work Im doing?
[12:32] <lifeless> _MMA_: no, its a specific term in bzr, a 'shared repository', created by 'bzr init-repo'
[12:32] <_MMA_> Ok. I remember now. No.
[12:32] <lifeless> _MMA_: please run 'bzr info -v' on a branch where you are having this happen
[12:32] <_MMA_> Gotcha
[12:35] <lifeless> if you pastebin the output the next time it warns, I'd be delighted to help you
[12:36] <_MMA_> lifeless: I'll be doing some more work later so Ill be sure to if it happens again.
[12:36] <lifeless> djr: its possible we have a setup.py regression with installing without the extensions; if thats the case, please file a bug
[12:37] <lifeless> djr:  you can run bzr from source without installing it, as a work around - just symlink 'bzr' into your path, or add the source dir to your path
[12:37] <_MMA_> lifeless: So when I run "bzr upgrade" it makes a "backup.bzr" folder.  After doing "bzr add" it added that folder and now I look to be uploading that content. Can I either *not* create that backup or delete "backup.bzr" later?
[12:37] <lifeless> you can't avoid the backup; just rm -rf backup.bzr once you've done the upgrade in a given branch
[12:38] <_MMA_> lifeless: After or before a push to LP?
[12:38] <_MMA_> Oh I see.
[12:38] <lifeless> before you next commit ;)
[12:39] <lifeless> if you've committed it, just uncommit
[12:40] <_MMA_> Well I did. :( So now I've been sitting at: "[\      ] Transferring:Walking content. 1/1" since I broke the lock.
[12:44] <lifeless> igc: deeper still :)
[12:45] <igc> lifeless: in the morning, when I'm awake :-)
[12:45] <lifeless> igc: sure
[12:45] <lifeless> igc: are you starting to see the shape of the intent ?
[12:46] <LarstiQ> beuno: do you know if loggerhead is supposed to generate relative links, instead of hardcoding the hostname in the href?
[12:46] <igc> lifeless: I think so. just saw your reply ...
[12:47] <igc> the root would change for a read-centric operation like log though
[12:47] <igc> s/would/won't/
[12:47] <lifeless> igc: Nodes are immutable, so they will never change after being written;
[12:47] <lifeless> igc: however the root will be different for  every inventory unless the inventories are identical
[12:48] <igc> sure
[12:48] <lifeless> igc: so for log, we should be reusing the tree - first as child then as parent
[12:54] <igc> lifeless: we do reuse the trees at the repo level *but* the code for iter_changes (tree.py line 928) always calls through to CHKInventory.iter_changes()
[12:55] <lifeless> igc: right, that should be fine
[12:55] <lifeless> oh, the variables you asked about, I was looking in inventory.py
[12:56] <lifeless> I'll reply again tomorrow after I page this in
[12:56] <lifeless> igc: _get_node would seem to be buggy, as it notes: does not update
[12:57] <lifeless> igc: fixing that to actually update the items dict may be useful :)
[12:57] <igc> :-)
[12:57] <lifeless> igc: all the same
[12:58] <lifeless> it kindof assumes that the differences from treeA to treeB will be similar to treeB to treeC
[12:58] <lifeless> for that to matter
[12:58] <lifeless> CHKMap is the code to own though
[12:58] <lifeless> its the driving abstraction
[12:58] <lifeless> gnight!
[12:58] <igc> night (and thanks)
[12:59] <LarstiQ> beuno: it seems loggerhead.apps.branch.url: request.construct_url(...) includes the hostname, so that is one piece were it is already broken
[12:59] <LarstiQ> beuno: (for my use case at least, maybe there is a reason for this?)
[12:59] <_MMA_> lifeless: http://paste.ubuntu.com/125256
[13:01] <beuno> LarstiQ, old versions of paste/patedeploy?
[13:01] <LarstiQ> beuno: python-paste 1.6, python-pastedeploy 1.3.1
[13:02] <beuno> hrm, that seems correct
[13:03] <LarstiQ> let me make sure I'm using loggerhead trunk
[13:04] <LarstiQ> beuno: yeah, lp:loggerhead 288
[13:05] <beuno> LarstiQ, it does use absolute URLs, but it should be generating them properly
[13:05] <beuno> you've got apache setup properly, etc?
[13:06] <LarstiQ> beuno: well, how does it generate them?
[13:06] <beuno> LarstiQ, based on what apache tells it through pastedeploy
[13:06] <beuno> there's some stuff in the README about it
[13:06] <beuno> did you follow that?
[13:07] <LarstiQ> beuno: my situation is (outerhost:4443 -> innerhost:80 -> localhost:8080)
[13:07]  * LarstiQ needs to look at how pastedeploy works then
[13:09] <LarstiQ> beuno: the README.txt is very thin, but yeah I've got a ProxyPass setup like that.
[13:09] <beuno> LarstiQ, hrm...  I don't really know. It's all mwhudson's magic
[13:10] <LarstiQ> beuno: k, I'll go bother him then (and in fact already have a thread at bugs.launchpad.net)
[13:10] <LarstiQ> beuno: thanks :)
[13:11] <igc> night all
[13:11] <LarstiQ> night igc
[13:18] <djr> about installing bzr on linux, again. In the absence of gcc, once I have unpacked the tar.gz, what do I do? the InstallationFaq says link to ~bzr/bzr.dev/bzr, but I don't have that file/directory.
[13:19] <djr> Is the bzr executable in the archive all I need?
[13:20] <james_w> djr: if you just run ./bzr from the unpacked source it should work
[13:22] <djr> Indeed it does. I wasn't sure if maybe it was an illusion and wasn't working properly. Could someone who understands these things refresh InstallationFaq on the wiki?
[13:27] <LarstiQ> beuno: fwiw, I stuck in: relative_url = urlparse.urlunparse(('', '') + urlparse.urlparse(absolute_url)[2:])
[13:28] <LarstiQ> beuno: and now it works, I'll followup with mwhudson
[13:28] <beuno> LarstiQ, ah, cool. Thanks   :)
[13:31] <LarstiQ> beuno: that does destroy the 'To get this branch, use bzr branch /loggerhead' bla, but ah well
[13:31] <beuno> LarstiQ, right. We're very bad with URLs in LH
[14:08] <_MMA_> lifeless: Man. "bzr upgrade" has never worked for me. :( I puled the branch new. (gave me the upgrade warning) Did "bzr upgrade" and removed "backup.bzr". Made a minor edit then committed/pushed to LP. Gave me the "bzr upgrade" warning again. :(
[14:09] <awilkins> djr: It will work out of the archive, but there are some parts that can be compiled to give more performance
[14:09] <Kinnison> _MMA_: It may be warning about the branch on LP
[14:13] <djr> awilkins: following the wiki seems to violate Principle of Least Surprise. It says 'all you need is Python', but by default tries to invoke gcc, and gives no guidance on how to proceed once it has failed.
[14:13] <_MMA_> lifeless: Current output of "bzr info -v ": http://paste.ubuntu.com/125281
[14:20] <LarstiQ> _MMA_: that sounds like the _remote_ branch needs to be upgraded
[14:21] <_MMA_> LarstiQ: Ahh.. Maybe that's what I'm hitting with alot of my branches. Is that something *I* can do?
[14:22] <LarstiQ> _MMA_: ie, `bzr upgrade sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-icon-theme/UbuntuStudio`
[14:22] <LarstiQ> _MMA_: yes
[14:22] <_MMA_> Ah...
[14:22]  * _MMA_ tries.
[14:26] <jam> lifeless: pong (if you are still awake)
[14:27] <_MMA_> LarstiQ: That looks like it. Thanx man.
[14:28]  * _MMA_ goes to upgrade all his branches.
[14:30] <LarstiQ> _MMA_: glad I could help
[14:32] <jam> djr: doesn't it tell you that you can use "build_ext --allow-python-fallback" ?
[14:35] <Lo-lan-do> Hi all
[14:37] <Lo-lan-do> I'm having a strange error with bzr-rebase... http://pastebin.com/df38d43c
[14:38] <Lo-lan-do> It tells me my tree is out of date although it isn't.
[14:59] <djr> jam: no it doesn't. there is a long an noisy traceback that concludes "log.warn('\n Cannot build extensions.\n' TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting
[14:59] <jam> djr: ok, our warning code has a typo in it. :(
[15:00] <djr> to (mis)quote Etienne "I tried bzr once. It failed to install!"
[15:01] <jam> Looking closer, it is the code trying to tell you '--allow-python-fallback', but it falls over at that time.
[15:01] <jam> I'll make sure that is fixed for the next release
[15:01] <djr> is that an additional option to 'setup.py install' ?
[15:04] <djr> A: no, it's not an option that INSTALL recognises
[15:04] <jam> djr: it is 'python setup.py install build_ext --allow-python-fallback'
[15:11] <asabil> hi all
[15:12] <asabil> it seems like bzr doesn't display a progress bar anymore when ran from inside a script
[15:12] <asabil> (for example from inside jhbuild)
[15:12] <asabil> is this a known issue ?
[15:13] <jam> asabil: there have been some reports of the progress bar disappearing on win32, but I haven't heard anything about scripts
[15:13] <jam> it may be the same root cause, though
[15:14] <asabil> hmm ok
[15:15] <jam> it is possible that the code figuring out the 'terminal width' is somehow getting a width of 0
[15:15] <jam> or some other strang ebit
[15:16] <jelmer> jam, it may be related to that
[15:16] <jelmer> progress bars aren't resized for me anymore
[15:16] <jelmer> they always stay small
[15:16] <jam> jelmer: well we don't continually poll
[15:16] <jam> we used to check on every update, I think
[15:16] <jam> which isn't great either
[15:16] <jam> the code has a comment about SIGWINCH
[15:16] <djr> jam: thanks John, that's done the trick. I think that's a documentation fix as well as a code fix required? Or why not enable fallback by default, so that the first-time would-be user gets a working install even if not an optimum one?
[15:16] <jam> but I don't see anything that uses a null progress bar anywhere
[15:17] <jelmer> jam, well, they even stay small if I resize my terminal window *before* starting bzr
[15:17] <jam> djr: because first-time users should know that they aren't getting an optimum one
[15:17] <jelmer> jam, that used to work ok with the previous progress bars
[15:18] <djr> jam: if you've triggered the fallback path you could tell them
[15:18] <jam> jelmer: we never resize the progress bar itself
[15:18] <jam> which is intentional
[15:18] <jam> we *do* write more text off to the right
[15:18] <jelmer> ah, ok
[15:20] <jam> vila: are you around?
[15:20] <jam> (bbiab, changing network connections)
[15:22] <jam> ok, back
[15:22] <LarstiQ> jelmer: you want me to file a new bug, and then you can mark it as dupe if that happens to be the case, right?
[15:23] <jelmer> LarstiQ, please
[15:23] <vila> jam: yup
[15:30] <LarstiQ> jelmer: done
[15:47] <oubiwann> spiv (or anyone else): got a question for you
[15:47] <oubiwann> is there any way to move/copy/import code from a completely separate branch into a subdirectory of a different codebase and preserve the revision history of the original?
[15:54] <radix> oubiwann: yes
[15:54] <radix> with a plugin I think
[15:54] <radix> The word "join" is floating through my head
[15:54] <oubiwann> radix: awesome -- I'll google-dig and see what I can find, thanks :-)
[15:56] <jam> oubiwann: lp:bzr-merge-into
[15:56] <jam> should get you going
[15:56] <jam> or https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr-merge-into if you want a bit more info
[15:57] <oubiwann> jam: thanks!
[15:57] <radix> okay I guess I was wrong about join :)
[15:57] <jam> radix: join works, but only in rich-root trees, etc, etc.
[15:57] <jam> we're getting there :)
[15:57] <radix> ah :)
[16:06] <jam> jelmer: quick question about samba
[16:06] <jam> I have a fairly old samba server running, and for some reason when I mount it, I can see the directories just fine
[16:06] <jam> but if I try to read any *file* it aborts with a READ ERROR
[16:06] <jam> Errno 13, Permission Denied  (it would seem)
[16:06] <jelmer> jam, how old is fairly old?
[16:07] <jam> jelmer: 3.0.23a-1.fc4.1
[16:07] <jam> what is weird
[16:07] <jam> is that it mounts just fine on my Vista machine
[16:07] <jelmer> jam, doesn't sound familiar
[16:07] <jelmer> jam, and on the client side?
[16:08] <jam> $ smbclient --version
[16:08] <jam> Version 3.0.28a
[16:09] <jelmer> jam, The kernel version I mean
[16:09] <jelmer> jam, (since the kernel module is not actually part of Samba)
[16:09] <jam> client is Hardy, server is FC4
[16:09] <jam> 2.6.24-23-generic
[16:10] <jelmer> hmm, that should work quite well
[16:10] <jelmer> jam: are you using smbfs or cifsfs?
[16:10] <jelmer> if you're not using cifsfs yet, you may want to give that a try
[16:10] <jam> i'm guessing my FC4 server won't have cifsfs
[16:11] <jam> but my client *is* using cifs
[16:11] <jelmer> jam: It's the client for which it should matter
[16:11] <jam> //<IP_ADDRESS>/jameinel on /home/jameinel/juju type cifs (rw,mand,nosuid,nodev,user=jameinel)
[16:11] <jam> //<IP_ADDRESS>/jameinel on /home/jameinel/juju type cifs (rw,mand)
[16:11] <jam> according to mount
[16:11] <jam> why would there be 2 entries?
[16:11] <jelmer> as the server doesn't need any kernel stuff
[16:11] <jelmer> there shouldn't be two entries
[16:12] <jelmer> jam, that may be the source of the problems
[16:12] <jam> jelmer: well, after 1 umount, I have a single entry, but then it does:
[16:12] <jam> $ sudo umount /home/jameinel/juju
[16:12] <jam> This utility only unmounts cifs filesystems.
[16:12] <jam> This utility only unmounts cifs filesystems.
[16:12] <loffe> How can I "bzr upload" with some uncommited changes?
[16:13] <loffe> To be clear: I want to upload the last commited revision, w/o working changes...
[16:13] <jam> loffe: 'bzr shelve; bzr upload; bzr unshelve' ?
[16:13] <james_w> "bzr upload -r -1"?
[16:14] <jam> jelmer: any idea of how to get it to unmount via something other than 'umount'?
[16:14] <jelmer> jam: Well, umount.cifs but I think that's also what umount is invoking under the hood
[16:14] <jam> jelmer: yeah, that gives the same error
[16:15] <jam> as does 'smbumount'
[16:15] <jam> though those only give the error 1 time
[16:15] <jam> while 'umount' gives it twice
[16:15] <vila> loffe: both suggestion by james_w and jam should work, file a bug if it doesn't
[16:15] <loffe> jam, james_w thanks, -r did it. However shelve loks like a nice command
[16:15] <jam> umount -f doesn't work either
[16:16] <jelmer> jam: no idea then, sorry :-/
[16:16] <jelmer> jam, The duplicate mount doesn't seem right to me though
[16:16] <jam> -f, -n, -l, all der-br0ken
[16:16] <jam> all say that they can only unmount a cifs filesystem
[16:16] <jam> and mount certainly thinks that is what I have
[16:17] <jam> note that there are *no files* if I do "ls mounted/path"
[16:17] <jam> so there isn't a real mount there
[16:17] <jam> just something claiming that there is... :(
[16:18] <jam> jelmer: could there be a UID mapping issue?
[16:19] <jam> that 'jameinel' on the local machine versus the remote machine is causing problems?
[16:19] <jelmer> jam: all files will be accessed as the user with which you did the mount
[16:19] <jam> (I ended up manually removing the line from mtab, and things are a bit nicer now)
[16:19] <jelmer> and it will also do local access checking
[16:19] <jelmer> if you have unix extensions enabled in the server, it should just use the same uids the server has
[16:20] <jam> so the uids *are* different
[16:20] <jam> 502 == jameinel on the server, 1000 == jameinel locally
[16:21] <jam> though ls seems to say everything is 'jameinel.jameinel'
[16:25] <jam> oh well, I guess I'll try repacking over sftp then
[16:30] <jam> ah, but that fails because it tries to read approx 2GB in one pass...
[16:31] <jelmer> jam: so if you're the only one using the remote server over smb from unix, you can disable the unix extensions
[16:32] <jelmer> jam: and you should be able to specify a uid= option to mount to indicate what user should appear to own all remote files
[16:32] <jam> jelmer: I'd be happy to do so, if I knew how to turn them on/off in the first place
[16:32] <jam> jelmer: I tried uid= and it still failed
[16:32] <jelmer> jam, "unix extensions = no" in smb.conf on the server side
[16:32] <jelmer> jam, uid= is ignored if the server has unix extensions enabled
[16:32] <jam> hmm.. I guess I'll try that
[16:39] <jam> jelmer: so setting 'unix extensions = no' changed the default file/dir permissions, which seems correct
[16:39] <jam> setting them manually via the -ofile_mode=XXX sets them as I would expect
[16:39] <jam> but I still can't read anything
[16:41] <jelmer> jam, did you override the uid=?
[16:41] <jam> jelmer: yep
[16:41] <jelmer> hmm, no idea then - sorry :-(
[16:42] <jelmer> It's probably a cifsfs bug, but no idea what specifically
[16:43] <jam> jelmer: I see this in the client's /var/log/message: Mar  2 10:39:45 liliana kernel: [1105324.900870] Status code returned 0xc0000022 NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED
[16:44] <jelmer> jam, that would suggest the server refusing the operation
[16:44] <jelmer> jam, can you read these files with a windows machine?
[16:45] <jam> jelmer: yep
[16:45] <jam> from Vista
[16:45] <jam> (I'll note that when I started accessing this share from Vista, it seemed to break mounting via Linux)
[16:46] <jam> I don't know if that is relevant at all
[16:48] <jelmer> jam, the vista machine may have a lock open at the moment?
[16:49] <jelmer> jam, samba will enforce windows-like locks across clients, which are mandatory not advisory
[16:49] <jam> jelmer: different files
[16:49] <jam> but on the same fs
[16:49] <jam> I can't read *any* files via linux
[16:49] <jam> I can see the directory listing, etc
[16:49] <jam> but when I go to 'cat foo' it gives me a perm error
[16:49] <jelmer> hmm, still no idea then
[16:51] <jam> does 'mount' list the options that you supply when doing 'smbmount', because I'm supplying a lot that I don't see
[16:51] <jelmer> jam, no, it doesn't list them
[16:51] <jelmer> jam, man mount.cifs should
[17:00] <jam> no luck
[17:00] <jam> and certainly I can supply what are obviously wrong parameters
[17:00] <jam> and nothing complains
[17:00] <jam> at least not right away
[17:23] <LarstiQ> jelmer: hmm, I get the impression my bug mail is slower than your bugmail
[19:59] <lifeless> jam: hi
[19:59] <jam> hi lifeless, you're up early :)
[19:59] <lifeless> 7am, not so early :P
[20:03] <lifeless> jam: igc: was having trouble with gc
[20:03] <lifeless> jam: did you see the bug
[20:03] <jam> I saw one which has an obvious fix
[20:03] <jam> something about None not being sortable
[20:03] <lifeless> None is not indexable?
[20:03] <jam> yeah
[20:08] <lifeless> jam: is that fixed?
[20:08] <jam> lifeless: fix just committed, thanks for the reminder
[20:08] <lifeless> jam: jinx :) thanks
[20:09] <lifeless> jam: so, I'd like to have a copy of python in gcrchk255
[20:17] <jam> well, gcr is undergoing a lot of flux right now
[20:17] <jam> but I'm willing to kick of a conversion to have a data point to talk about
[20:17] <lifeless> jam: not to give them so much as to say, look, this is what we're polishing at the moment
[20:18] <jam> I suppose the other thing is that I haven't been making the -rich-root variants yet, as I already have too many variants
[20:18] <jam> but that, again, is easy to fix
[20:20] <jam> ultimately, I'd certainly rather have rich-root as the default variant
[20:20] <lifeless> jam: does https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr-groupcompress/trunk have gcr? or just whats still suitable for bbc ?
[20:20] <jam> lifeless: trunk does not have gcr
[20:20] <jam> I'll push up a branch, though
[20:21] <lifeless> jam: I can't promise to look at it :P.
[20:21] <jam> lifeless: what is your feeling about disk compatibility
[20:21] <jam> that's fine
[20:21] <jam> I'm just trying to decide whether I should leave all-new format strings
[20:21] <jam> or whether we should somehow support both for a hile
[20:21] <jam> while
[20:22] <lifeless> its easy to twiddle them
[20:22] <lifeless> I do not care about backwards compatibility for repo formats in bbc/gc
[20:22] <lifeless> they are both entirely experimental
[20:22] <lifeless> as opposed to beta like devX formats in trunk
[20:24] <jam> lifeless: lp:~bzr/bzr-groupcompress/rabin  for now
[20:29] <lifeless> jam: so the rabin index extension
[20:30] <lifeless> jam: you're having some trouble with that?
[20:30] <jam> I have it working for now.
[20:30] <jam> Just by using multiple indexes
[20:30] <jam> I know how to combine them
[20:30] <lifeless> right
[20:30] <jam> but this ended up easier to implement
[20:30] <lifeless> thats how gc started
[20:30] <lifeless> oh
[20:30] <lifeless> I see, nice
[20:47] <dlee> Any chance there's a bzr<-->MediaWiki versioning solution, much like we have for Bzr<-->Subversion?
[21:02] <poolie> hello all,
[21:02] <poolie> hello jam
[21:02] <lifeless> hi
[21:02] <jam> morning poolie
[21:02] <poolie> jam, want to talk in 5m?
[21:03] <jam> poolie: sure, you can call my cell phone, I have to go pick up my wife at the train station
[21:03] <poolie> sure
[21:06] <lifeless> jam: btw, streaming pull is landed to now, at least the first cut thereof
[21:06] <kees> /home/kees/.bazaar/plugins/hooks/__init__.py:20: DeprecationWarning: bzrlib.branch.BranchHooks.install_hook was deprecated in version 1.5.
[21:07] <kees> what should I be using instead?
[21:08] <mwhudson> kees: install_named_hook
[21:09] <kees> mwhudson: so, if I had this:   Branch.hooks.install_hook('pre_commit', run_tests)
[21:09] <kees> I want Branch.install_named_hook now?
[21:09] <LarstiQ> hey mwhudson
[21:09] <mwhudson> kees: yes, and you need to pass a name too
[21:09] <lifeless> kees: Branch.hooks.install_named_hook('pre_commit', run_tests, 'Run my tests')
[21:10] <lifeless> mwhudson: ITYM "no, keep the hooks component in the object path" :)
[21:10] <mwhudson> LarstiQ: hello
[21:10] <kees> mwhudson: cool, great.  is there a way to install hooks only in a given bzr tree?
[21:10] <kees> mwhudson: right now, I have this as a global hook, and it does:
[21:10] <mwhudson> kees:
[21:10] <LarstiQ> mwhudson: I suspect I need to file a new bug re my ssl/proxy troubles.
[21:10] <mwhudson> um
[21:10] <kees> def run_tests(local, master, old_revno, old_revid, new_revno, new_revid, seven, eight):
[21:11] <kees>     if 'ubuntu-cve-tracker' in master.base:
[21:11] <kees> as a way to only run it for the ubuntu-cve-tracker tree
[21:11] <mwhudson> kees: you can put
[21:11] <mwhudson> [/home/kees/cve-tracker]
[21:11] <mwhudson> my_magic_config = value
[21:11] <lifeless> kees: use a config variable
[21:11] <mwhudson> in ~/.bazaar/locations.conf
[21:12] <lifeless> kees: if not master.get_config().get_user_option('cvs_enabled'): return
[21:12] <kees> mwhudson, lifeless: ah, interesting, okay, thanks.
[21:12] <lifeless> kees: then you can enable per branch using branch.conf, or url prefix via locations.conf
[21:17] <lifeless> jelmer: we're getting a bad pattern on that bug :)
[21:27] <mwhudson> LarstiQ: probably sane
[21:28] <LarstiQ> mwhudson: will do tomorrow, to tired to think now
[21:28] <LarstiQ> ciao
[21:28] <mwhudson> :)
[21:45] <Glenjamin> hey guys, are there any docs around on using bzr's functions programatically?
[21:45] <Glenjamin> i was going to just write a shell script, but i thought error handling would be much neater just using normal python
[21:47] <beuno> Glenjamin, maybe something like: http://bazaar-vcs.org/Integrating_with_Bazaar
[21:47] <Glenjamin> ah perfect
[21:47] <Glenjamin> thanks
[21:48] <beuno> welcome'
[21:52] <mxpxpod> jelmer: are there docs for subvertpy?
[22:01] <igc> morning
[22:06] <jam> lifeless: i noticed, it breaks brisbane-core when you merge the new streaming code ... :)
[22:07] <lifeless> jam: :P ><
[22:19]  * igc breakfast
[22:32] <james_w> thanks Aaron
[22:57] <abentley> james_w: np
[22:58] <james_w> abentley: my reviews won't be counted as votes, correct?
[22:58] <abentley> james_w: They will.
[22:59] <james_w> oh, ok
[23:03] <lifeless> yay netsplits
[23:03] <kenichi> feeling blind, are there any sort of instructions for loggerhead setup anywhere?
[23:04] <kenichi> oh hee, nm.
[23:04] <lifeless> abentley: I intend to move cloning_metadir down to the format, with a signature like Format.cloning_format(self, a_dir)
[23:05] <lifeless> abentley: this is to allow avoiding more VFS calls
[23:05] <lifeless> abentley: alternatively, I could do a network version of cloning_metadir; do you have a preference/haven't thought about it ?
[23:07] <abentley> lifeless: I think it's okay to move it down, but you've got to make sure that format is accurate, then.
[23:08] <lifeless> abentley: well the goal is to have RemoteBzrDirFormat.cloning_format(a_dir) call self._real_format.cloning_format(a_dir), where a_dir is a RemoteBzrDir
[23:08] <lifeless> abentley: I think I'll do a network version, for now
[23:09] <abentley> lifeless: works for me.
[23:09] <lifeless> abentley: because its not an api change, and thats easier in some ways
[23:13] <poolie> jam, regarding weave merge
[23:13] <poolie> i thought i remembered that we would conflict on delete vs change
[23:13] <poolie> i might be wrong
[23:14] <abentley> poolie: I think it's not interpreted as a change because the line is moved.
[23:16] <poolie> really, does weave know about that kind of merge?
[23:21] <mwhudson> jelmer: are you here?
[23:24] <thumper> :(
[23:24] <thumper> looks like not
[23:38] <mwhudson> lazy students
[23:45] <jelmer> mwhudson, hey
[23:46] <thumper> jelmer: why are you awake!
[23:46] <mwhudson> jelmer: does bzr-git support branching from non-master branches in a repo?
[23:47] <mwhudson> (please excuse any lack of understanding of git from me...)
[23:47] <jelmer> mwhudson: not yet, as bzr has no way to address those branche syet
[23:47] <mwhudson> ok, that issue
[23:47] <jelmer> mwhudson, bzr git-import will import them though
[23:48] <mwhudson> git-import will import all branches in a repo
[23:48] <mwhudson> ?
[23:48] <mwhudson> jelmer: also, is lp:bzr-git, lp:dulwich the way to get the latest, most fun, bzr-git?
[23:48] <jelmer> mwhudson, yes, git-import imports all branches
[23:50] <jelmer> mwhudson, the latest is lp:dulwich and lp:~jelmer/bzr-git/trunk
[23:50] <mwhudson> jelmer: ok thanks
[23:51] <jfroy> Hey people.
[23:51] <jfroy> Are there specific setup instructions for running the bazaar test suite?
[23:51] <jfroy> I naively tried to run bzr selftest, only to have it immediately die on me with bzr: ERROR: No module named blackbox.test_diff
[23:52] <lifeless> jfroy: generally you should be running from the source, not from a binary
[23:53] <jfroy> that is what I did
[23:54] <jfroy> I went into the source distribution and ran the ./bzr
[23:54] <jfroy> perhaps I need to force that path on the sys.path first
[23:59] <lifeless> jfroy: no, shouldn't need to
[23:59] <lifeless> jfroy: uhm that was from a tarball?


[01:24] <Hydr0p0nX> thoughts on http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130746 vs. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157366
[03:09] <Patrickdk> well, that depends
[03:09] <Patrickdk> the first one would be ok for a frontend likely
[03:10] <Patrickdk> the second one looks better for a backend, or if you want your own graphics card
[03:29] <Hydr0p0nX> it's both
[03:29] <Hydr0p0nX> I decided on the asrock board though :)


[02:40] <Unit193> canthus13: Do you happen to know how to enable the bell in terminal? (Did all this: http://n0nb.us/blog/2011/01/enable-the-pc-speaker-beep-in-xfce-terminal/) and searched all around...
[03:12] <canthus13> Not sure in xfce...
[03:12] <Unit193> Might be close to gnome :/
[03:13] <canthus13> screen can be configured to use the bell, I believe...
[03:13] <canthus13> The profile preferences screen in gnome-terminal has a checkbox for enabling the bell.
[03:15] <Unit193> Hrm... Works over SSH in PuTTY... We just need it in xfce-terminal...
[23:54] <Unguided> Hello All! Any of you from the toledo area?


[08:06] <nhaines> Man, I think I created all the packaging for ubuntu-wallpapers-xenial.  And it was a lot of work.  :P


[00:23] <cjwelborn> !info linux-image
[03:11] <redDragon> is there a way to move the panel widget around in the system tray panel
[03:11] <redDragon> something like dragging them
[03:11] <redDragon> and placing them whereever I wish?
[03:15] <tsimpson> redDragon: press the cashew, then you should be able to position them
[03:16] <redDragon> tsimpson: whats a cashew?
[03:16] <tsimpson> the little icon you use to open the menu to resize the panel, add widgets, etc
[03:16] <redDragon> ah
[03:16] <redDragon> got it
[03:16] <redDragon> tsimpson: thank you !!
[03:16] <tsimpson> sure :)
[03:22] <FloodBotK1> !netsplit
[04:10] <Whiskey`Wonka> ive got a box VERSION="12.10, Quantal Quetzal" that I want to update but the mirrors are going at 4kb/s. Its NOT a network issue ive got 50mbit and 10mbit is in use, i can wget from palces at 25+mbit. any way to make apt-get pull from many sources??
[04:20] <valorie> Whiskey`Wonka: sounds like you want a torrent
[04:20]  * valorie is seeding atm
[04:20] <Whiskey`Wonka> valorie: sure but apt-get can not use them
[04:21] <Whiskey`Wonka> and i dont want ot pull the entire multi gig repo for these 500mb or some odd packages
[04:21] <valorie> ok
[04:22] <Whiskey`Wonka> itm ight be faster to do it tho, uhg!
[04:22] <Whiskey`Wonka> ttp://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ is going slooooooooooow
[04:22] <valorie> some people do set up their own local archive
[04:22] <Whiskey`Wonka> ya
[04:23] <valorie> zsync seems like the best way to keep that current
[07:26] <gsedej_work> Hi! I would like to use Alt+1 for switching to first tab in browsers. Somehow it does not work (other numbers work). There is no other shortcut for Alt+1
[07:32] <sbivol> gsedej_work: I just tested in Firefox and Rekonq, on Kubuntu 13.04. both work with Alt+F1
[07:33] <sbivol> maybe you have that combination assigned to some shortcut?
[07:36] <sbivol> gsedej_work: Alt+1, I mean
[07:46] <gsedej_work> sbivol, it works in gnome for both firefox and chromium
[07:46] <gsedej_work> and it works in kde for alt+2, 3, 4 ...
[07:46] <gsedej_work> but not alt+1 which is for first tab (mail)
[09:28] <VodkaLemmon> lordievader:
[10:18] <debfan_> can someone help me with server clock problem?   my ntpdate has .. I think the offset problem?
[10:18] <debfan_> ''no servers can be used, exiting'
[11:17] <obert> hello, i got a wrong date; i downloaded my lang locale files and installed them, i got the wrong date though
[11:36] <lordievader> Good afternoon.
[12:03] <evilC> Hi all, I wonder if anyone can help me work around a kubuntu bug stopping multi-monitor from working?
[12:04] <evilC> (Well, ubuntu suffers from the same bug, would I need to report it there?)
[12:05] <evilC> specifically, when plugging more than one monitor into a secondary GPU, you cannot use the computer as it always displays the login screen
[12:07] <obert> i changed my time zone into mine, but i still see "hh:mm PM" in the clock on the right bottom side
[12:43] <kaddi> has anybody here installed ubuntu on a samsung ativ book 9? (940x3g). Is it safe to do so or can it brick the machine? How well does linux run on it?
[13:01] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[14:33] <woon> 你好
[14:34] <lordievader> !china| woon
[14:46] <woon> join#ubuntu-cn
[15:17] <judgen> how do i set how many % the audio volume changes when using the scroll wheel over the kmix icon?
[16:34] <zafan> Hi hi
[18:34] <danboid> Is there a guide on how to compile kde-baseapps from git under Ubuntu anywhere?
[18:36] <danboid> I've found this http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Building_An_Existing_Application
[18:36] <danboid> but its very generic
[18:37] <danboid> It lists about 20 envvars you need to define before it will build!
[18:38] <danboid> I expect not all are required
[20:23] <rodnice> QUESTION: Does anyone know how I would go about fixing AUDIO?  Specifically, Studio programs (Ardour, Hydrogen) tend to hog all of the audio when they are opened and don't let go of the resource until I restart the computer.
[20:41] <acooper> Howdy.  I notice that kubuntu has something called LightDM instead of KDM.  How big a deal is it to install KDM instead?  I looking online but haven't found anything specific about that yet.
[20:45] <Authority> acooper: I've flip-flopped between LightDM and KDM in the past and don't remember any particular difficulties
[20:46] <acooper> Cool.  Is is just a matter of running the "sudo dpkg-reconfigure kdm" command?
[20:46] <Authority> seems like after the installation of KDM, it will present a little dialog to let you choose which login manager you want to use
[20:46] <Authority> or that
[20:47] <acooper> Should I be using kdesudo instead of sudo for some reason?
[20:57] <acooper> Alright, that was easy enough.  Thanks Authority.
[20:58] <kita> nn
[20:59] <kita> hello there am new to this
[21:17] <rodnice> Question: Cloning a Drive: How would I go about that?
[21:29] <michaelkrtikos> Hello everyone
[21:31] <michaelkrtikos> could you please help me with the instant messaging? It seems that i cannot login to facebook chat via Empathy or Instant Messages Contacts
[21:31] <michaelkrtikos> I get an authorization failed error
[21:32] <michaelkrtikos> Let me say that with pidgin i can connect
[21:36] <Mamarok> rodnice: the tool commonly used to cloe a drive is called dd
[21:37] <Mamarok> to clone* an drive
[21:37] <rodnice> Mamarok: is there a GUI you could suggest?
[21:38] <Mamarok> nope, stuff like that is usually not done in a GUI
[21:38] <septix> hey guys im trying to use an usb dvb-s2 box under my kubuntu 13.10, could anybody tell me whats the problem with make is? http://paste.frubar.net/15713
[21:39] <Mamarok> septix: are you following a guide for that? You didn't specify a target
[21:39] <septix> yes i follow a readme file, would you like to see it Mamarok ?
[21:40] <Mamarok> septix: not really, you should read it again as you probably missed a step, the error you pasted tells you what you did wrong
[21:40] <rodnice> Mamarok: I hope I'm using the correct terminology. So if I want to copy my current laptop as is (without probably media files) and install it to another computer, that is called "cloning" correct?
[21:40] <Mamarok> rodnice: yes
[21:41] <Mamarok> but cloning takes a lot of time, you would be probably better of to just backup your files and then make a fresh installation
[21:41] <septix> Mamarok, the readme says "build and install the driver with make && make install", thats what i tried, "make"
[21:41] <Mamarok> espeically if the operating system is also on that drive
[21:42] <rodnice> oh
[21:42] <Mamarok> and if the laptop specifications are not exactly the same this will not work
[21:42] <rodnice> OK
[21:42] <rodnice> Ohhhh OK OK
[21:42] <rodnice> yeah I guess you're right
[21:42] <Mamarok> septix: make needs a target, and you probably don't have all dependencies
[21:42] <rodnice> just being lazy and don't want to setup my system again with all the tweeks
[21:43] <Mamarok> septix: are you sure you need a driver that is not available in a repo?
[21:43] <Mamarok> rodnice: I fear that cloing is not meant for that, it is used to duplicate identical installations, including the same ahrdware
[21:43] <Mamarok> very handy in big deplyoments
[21:44] <Mamarok> not suitable if you change your hardware
[21:44] <rodnice> ahhhhh
[21:44] <rodnice> Mamarok: Thanks man!
[21:44] <Mamarok> you are welcome, but I am not a man :)
[21:44] <rodnice> I'll read up on dd
[21:44] <septix> i dont really know, its a DVB-S2 USB Box with a driver supplied by the company, i dont really know much things about this thats why i strictly try to install whats on the delivered cd Mamarok
[21:44] <rodnice> Mamarok: sorry!
[21:45] <rodnice> Where is Paparok?
[21:45] <rodnice> j/k
[21:45] <Mamarok> septix: well, the drivers are usually meant for Windows, not for Linux
[21:45] <rodnice> Mamarok: so what is Ubuntu Customization Kit and Remastersys for?
[21:45] <septix> Mamarok, this company delivered a linux driver on the cd
[21:46] <Mamarok> rodnice: no idea, did you google it? But really reinstalling a Kubuntu and just copying over your personal files with rsync is really much easier, believe me
[21:46] <Mamarok> and you would get a fresh installation without all the cruft you probably have on the old one
[21:46] <rodnice> OK... see I need to get Windows out of my head
[21:46] <Mamarok> yep
[21:47] <Mamarok> especially since a fresh installation of a Kubuntu system takes less than an hour
[21:47] <Mamarok> not like Windows :)
[21:47] <rodnice> Mamarok: take care. I gotta go.  you're the bestest! (that is a word... at least now it is)
[21:47] <Mamarok> :)
[21:47] <wikus> INDEX
[21:47] <Mamarok> septix: did you try to just connect to it without that driver first?
[21:48] <Mamarok> wikus: please read the topic
[21:52] <septix> Mamarok, well, i came from another dristribution, there i tried just "plug and play", since the delivered drivers are for ubuntu based systems i installed kubuntu real quick
[21:53] <Mamarok> septix: what puzzles me is the kernel number, is that the Linux kernel? seems not to be what is current in 13.10
[21:54] <septix> uname -r throws 3.11.0-12-generic
[21:54] <septix> i installed 3.04 and updated to 3.10
[21:55] <Mamarok> well, that error message talks about a kernel 3.1.2, which is definitely not the right one
[21:55] <Mamarok> so the driver provided is precompiled for a much older kernel
[21:55] <Mamarok> I guess
[21:56] <Mamarok> which is not surprising as hardware manufacturers are rarely up-to-date when it comes to Linux
[21:59] <septix> ah thats right, i didnt payed attention to that, i tried something and have to reboot now, i will be right back and post the result Mamarok :)
[22:00] <goodtime> hmmph
[22:01] <goodtime> hey BluesKaj you available?
[22:02] <goodtime> need some info man
[22:03] <septix> so back i am
[22:06] <septix> Mamarok, because of you i recognized i was in the wrong folder with the OLD driver the whole time :/.. the output of the new driver i a little different, but i get an error too: http://paste.frubar.net/15714
[22:07] <Mamarok> septix: did you use sudo rights?
[22:07] <septix> i have a root terminal running
[22:07] <goodtime> and?
[22:08] <goodtime> so i guess your ready to install or change things as root...
[22:08] <Mamarok> goodtime: YOu were not here earlier, please...
[22:09] <goodtime> septix are you trying to do something as root?
[22:09] <Mamarok> goodtime: yes, he is, and you lack half an hour of what we were doing earlier, so please
[22:10] <goodtime> because if you dont know what your doing as root youll prob mess things up a bit
[22:10] <goodtime> ok sorry
[22:10] <goodtime> my bad i just like helping
[22:10] <goodtime>  if possibale
[22:10] <Mamarok> septix: did you try to erase the build folder and start from scratch?
[22:11] <Mamarok> goodtime: well, as I said, this is something that started long before you came in, and I am handling it
[22:11] <goodtime> ok   ;)
[22:12] <septix> Mamarok, do you mean deleati
[22:12] <septix> deleating the /lib/modules/3.11.0-12-generic/build folder?
[22:12] <Mamarok> no, don't tuch that one, but the folder you are in when you run make
[22:12] <septix> no, but i can do that real quick
[22:12] <Mamarok> I presume you had to create a new folder
[22:13] <Mamarok> and make writes stuff in the folder, so maybe the old config files it did create are not valid anymore
[22:13] <Mamarok> just don't erase anything in /lib/
[22:14] <septix> alright, thats because i got confused i would never delete something there without exactly knowing what i do
[22:15] <Mamarok> septix: in your home folder you can do what you want, just don't do anythin in a system folder with sudo rights
[22:15] <Mamarok> septix: as I said: you are working in your home folder, aren't you? because if you are in a system folder that is very wrong
[22:17] <septix> yes i am in my home follder, i just typed su and use root currently so i didnt have to type sudo everytime
[22:17] <Mamarok> well, in kubuntu you shouldn't use su
[22:17] <Mamarok> use sudo, eventually sudo -i if you don't want to have to enter your password repeatedly
[22:20] <septix> ok i will do that, thanks for the tipp. Here is the new output of a "fresh" try http://paste.frubar.net/15715
[22:22] <Mamarok> same error as before, I guess it is about time to check the manufacturer's website
[22:25] <septix> sounds bad
[22:26] <Mamarok> no, maybe there is an update available intheir support
[22:27] <Mamarok> quit often the case
[22:28] <Mamarok> as the software delivered with the hardware is rarely up-to-date
[22:42] <septix> ok Mamarok i looked around little bit and might found something, have to reboot again, if your are still here later i will report you, if not thanks for your help so far
[22:57] <rodnice> Mamarok: you there?
[22:59] <Mamarok> rodnice: just
[22:59] <rodnice> Mamarok: so why wouldn't I use Ubuntu Customization Kit?
[22:59] <Mamarok> rodnice: I don't know it
[23:00] <Mamarok> can't tell
[23:00] <rodnice> ok
[23:00] <Mamarok> but I doubt you will spare time with that
[23:00] <rodnice> Mamarok: ok let's say I do have 3 identical machines I just bought and wanted to set up a small lab for the public or something...
[23:01] <rodnice> Mamarok: what's the prefered way of getting them to look identical?
[23:01] <Mamarok> rodnice: well, yes, but you are aware that the customization kit is just creating a Live CD with specifications you want
[23:01] <Mamarok> it will not install anything
[23:02] <Mamarok> so why not just backing up your data, do a fresh install of you new laptop and then copy the date you need back?
[23:02] <Mamarok> especially since a Live CD is probably not big enough for a whole system, let alone a complete HD
[23:02] <rodnice> Mamarok: yes, for one laptop, I'll do what you said.  However, if I come into that down the line with like 4 desktop computers...
[23:03] <rodnice> yeah you're right... it always fits on a DVD
[23:03] <Mamarok> read my last line
[23:03] <Mamarok> my system for example would never fit on one DVD
[23:04] <rodnice> Mamarok: wow, so what do system admins do? Like places like public libraries where all the computers for the public need to be the same?
[23:04] <Mamarok> and if you are planing to install an identical system on 4 desktops, then use dd, much faster
[23:05] <Mamarok> well, those public computers are often equipped with a reduced set of applications,
[23:05] <Mamarok> so that would certainly even fit on a Life CD
[23:05] <Mamarok> all depends on what is the target
[23:06] <rodnice> Mamarok: ah, the dreaded dd, lol.  I would need to read a pretty substantial book to begin using that?  I don't mind, I'm just trying to figure out future options.
[23:06] <Mamarok> no, there are guides online, and man dd is the starting point
[23:07] <Mamarok> as dd is part of every bsic Linux installation
[23:08] <Mamarok> but if you want to be a sysadmin then there are a few books to read indeed, as it is a full-time job after all :)
[23:08] <rodnice> lol
[23:08] <rodnice> ok
[23:09] <rodnice> shoot... I was trying to take the Windows way out of this one lol
[23:09] <Mamarok> oh my, you will have a GUI that doesn't explain what is happening and you will have learned nothing
[23:10] <Mamarok> dd at least is not that doifficult to learn and you also learn something you will document for yourself and will be able to re-use
[23:10] <Mamarok> for free
[23:14] <rodnice> Mamarok: same advice I give my lazy friends but hate when it applies to me lol
[23:14] <rodnice> Mamarok: Somedays I don't wanna be the pilot... I just wanna pay the ticket and ride 1st class :-)
[23:19] <Mamarok> rodnice: yes, we are all lazy at times :)
[23:19] <Mamarok> ok, bedtime for me now, good night everyone
[23:19] <rodnice> gnight
[23:26] <rodnice> QUESTION: Does anyone know how I would go about fixing AUDIO?  Specifically, Studio programs (Ardour, Hydrogen) tend to hog all of the audio when they are opened and don't let go of the resource until I restart the computer.
[23:43] <advnet> oi


[00:30] <dtchen> cjwatson: at least from inspecting current git HEAD of anaconda, it seems the PAE is indeed quite straightforward: (from isys/isys.py:711)   if line.startswith("flags") and line.find("pae") != -1:
[00:30] <dtchen> err, "the PAE check"
[00:33] <cjwatson> dtchen: ok, thought so
[00:33] <cjwatson> my question about how the heck we're going to actually account for both sets of users on a single CD stands, though ...
[00:34] <cjwatson> (but I see Tim has answered. Fair enough. I guess time will tell)
[00:35] <cjwatson> (and any bugs I get about it will be unceremoniously reassigned to the kernel! :-) )
[00:41] <Sarvatt> is the default i386 generic kernel switching to PAE? or is there going to be a PAE flavor?
[00:42]  * Sarvatt hopes its not the former for the sake of all intel graphics users :D
[00:45] <Sarvatt> (because GEM doesnt work with PAE)
[00:48] <cjwatson> *blink* that's news to me
[00:48] <cjwatson> shame rtg left a while back ...
[00:49] <cjwatson> the proposal was to leave -generic alone but basically only offer it for netboot/DVD users; that may be a bit of a roadblock
[00:59] <jjohansen> it might be but there are work around patches that can be applied if the real fix doesn't land for .31
[01:04] <maxb> ogasawara: I don't agree with wontfixing that bug based on that mail link. The bug is about "Why are these packages no longer in the archive", the mail thread is about "How do I build these packages locally"
[01:04] <maxb> "Debug packages are so large that they are only built on the buildd's." does not explain why the debug packages built on the buildds are not then published to the archive
[01:05] <ogasawara> maxb: feel free to add a comment
[01:07] <cjwatson> Sarvatt: I've brought the GEM issue up on the mail thread, thanks
[01:31] <Sarvatt> is there really alot of demand for the default kernel to be PAE on x86? I would think most everything with >4gb ram is going to be x64 compatable so it's down to NX vs the performance overhead and incompatability issues with PAE.. theres some discussion on it in this thread - http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/843866
[01:38] <cjwatson> lots of people don't want to use amd64 on desktops because then they have to deal with 32-bit compatibility libraries and argh nightmare pain
[01:48] <cjwatson> but yeah, interesting comments from Linus there
[08:27] <ikepanhc> hi apw
[08:30] <apw> hi
[08:32] <ikepanhc> apw: could you look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/276949, is that ok?
[08:32] <ubot3> Malone bug 276949 in linux "No driver for HP Webcam - 15b8:6002" [Medium,Triaged]
[08:37] <apw> ikepanhc, what do you need me to see?
[08:38] <ikepanhc> apw: the last comment I just sent
[08:38] <apw> ok, the statement seems factual
[08:39] <ikepanhc> I try to, I just afraid bug reporter will be disapoint
[08:42] <apw> they are always dissapointed when we cannot do everything for them
[08:42] <apw> if you have asked smb and he is against then thats that
[08:43] <apw> we will have a release before long, and have given them an unofficial kernel which supported the camera
[08:44] <ikepanhc> thanks, I will ask smb's story or viewpoint
[08:44] <apw> yep... he can aways comment on the bug if there is dissent
[08:44]  * apw looks if the patch is in stable
[08:45] <ikepanhc> that is not a short patch
[08:52] <apw> that indeed is the  issue, big patches == risk
[09:26] <smb> Ideally I would like a stable topic branch to be like the mainline builds. So you can install it simply to try out stuff
[09:27] <smb> and you could switch between the official one and the other
[09:27] <zeroprog> hey guys i just installed karmic koala and it says that it is built on kernel 2.6.30 but when i do uname -r it says 2.6.28....and i cannot find the source with the correct patches so that i can set up a proper driver dev environment
[09:28] <smb> If we got that, then a pocket in the kernel-team ppa might be the place to put it
[09:29] <smb> zeroprog, Was that a clean install/chroot/or upgrade?
[09:29] <zeroprog> clean install
[09:29] <apw> smb, yeah i tend to agree with all of that
[09:29] <apw> zeroprog, the kernel should indeed be 2.6.30
[09:30] <zeroprog> hmm.....it says 2.6.28-11.....which doesnt have a source package i guess
[09:30] <smb> zeroprog, exactly. the uname output comes from the kernel... Just to rule that out /proc/version says the same?
[09:31] <zeroprog> yes smb
[09:31] <apw> zeroprog, can you paste the output of cat /proc/version_signature please
[09:31] <smb> zeroprog, 2.6.28 is the Jaunty kernel
[09:31] <zeroprog> cat /proc/version
[09:31] <zeroprog> Linux version 2.6.28-11-generic (buildd@palmer) (gcc version 4.3.3 (Ubuntu 4.3.3-5ubuntu4) ) #42-Ubuntu SMP Fri Apr 17 01:57:59 UTC 2009
[09:31] <smb> That is the Jaunty release kernel
[09:31] <apw> how about the output of: dpkg -l | grep linux-image
[09:32] <zeroprog> dpkg -l |grep linux-image
[09:32] <zeroprog> ii  linux-image-2.6.28-11-generic              2.6.28-11.42                              Linux kernel image for version 2.6.28 on x86
[09:32] <zeroprog> ii  linux-image-generic                        <IP_ADDRESS>.15                              Generic Linux kernel image
[09:32] <smb> And maybe to check sanity, check what /etc/apt/source.list has as release
[09:32] <apw> and the output of: cat /etc/lsb-release
[09:33] <zeroprog> ok it says distrib is jaunty but i just bought an ubuntu book with a karmic koala cd
[09:34] <apw> finally check /etc/apt/sources.list
[09:34] <smb> apw, and yeas. I think we are on the same track there. I hope we can allocate a slot to think just about the versioning. The rest might be simple enough
[09:34] <apw> zeroprog, it claims to be karmic, thats not even released
[09:34] <smb> zeroprog, Interesting yeah ^^^
[09:34] <smb> Chances are rather that they have a Jaunty CD
[09:34] <zeroprog> really....it was supposed to be beta
[09:35] <smb> zeroprog, alpha
[09:35] <apw> karmic is only at alpha2
[09:35] <zeroprog> yes alpha sorry
[09:35] <apw> hmmm... then it is possible that the CD was taken at alpha1
[09:35] <apw> zeroprog, the easiest way forward is likely to run update-manager -d
[09:35] <apw> and then take the option to update to karmic
[09:35] <smb> apw, Not if sources.list is wrong
[09:36] <apw> update-manager will sort that out in theory
[09:36] <smb> Or aeh
[09:36] <smb> You are right
[09:36] <zeroprog> well id prefer to stay on jaunty because it is stable...but i still cannot get the source for it
[09:36] <apw> zeroprog, ok so what is the actual issue?
[09:37] <apw> what source are you trying to get
[09:37] <zeroprog> i keep getting the invalid format when compiling a simple module .... extension is ko
[09:37] <apw> can you paste the commands you are doing and all of the output into a pastebin and point us to it
[09:38] <zeroprog> well i went to kernel.org and downloaded 2.6.28
[09:39] <zeroprog> http://pastebin.com/d21a8f2fd
[09:39] <smb> zeroprog, One thing (probably not really related) The kernel 2.6.28-11 looks like you never did any sort of update on that system. The current updates kernel would be 2.6.28-14.33
[09:39] <apw> zeroprog, so are you trying to enable something specific?
[09:40] <zeroprog> yes ive just installed this within the last two days after using hardy heron for a year
[09:40] <zeroprog> just the ability to write device drivers heh
[09:40]  * smb wonders wheter this might be "make menuconfig"
[09:40] <apw> ok that paste has no errors?
[09:40] <zeroprog> hardy is working fine on my alernative notebook but this one seems to be giving me trouble
[09:41] <smb> Though that should not be required to get an external module to build
[09:41] <zeroprog> there are no errors everything installs fine
[09:41] <apw> except you complained about errors?
[09:41] <zeroprog> invalid format hello.ko
[09:41] <apw> right that is an error, who says it where from what command
[09:41] <zeroprog> from make
[09:42] <smb> zeroprog, Does dmesg say something at the end
[09:42] <smb> like disagrees about version
[09:42] <zeroprog> yes
[09:42] <apw> ok so when i asked for the command and the errors, those were the ones i was referring to
[09:43] <zeroprog> disagrees with symbol struct_module
[09:43] <apw> you need to be running your installed kernel
[09:43] <apw> before you can load up modules which you built for it]
[09:43] <apw> your uname says you are running the ubuntu kernel, not your built kernel there
[09:44] <smb> This might be just an external module tree. Not a complete kernel
[09:44] <zeroprog> it says im running a generic kernel
[09:45] <smb> zeroprog, the place you run the make commands. Is that just containing ou hello world module?
[09:45] <zeroprog> yes
[09:45] <apw> paste the uname -r output again
[09:45] <zeroprog> 2.6.28-11-generic
[09:46] <apw> that is not a generic kernel, that is the ubuntu generic flavour
[09:46] <apw> the mainline kernel would say 2.6.28
[09:46] <zeroprog> the vanilla kernel yes but that failed so i tried this one
[09:48] <apw> right but modules are specific to the kernel you built them for
[09:48] <apw> so you either need to be running the mainline kernel and make modules for that
[09:48] <apw> or you need to be running the ubuntu kernel and need to make modules for that
[09:48] <apw> the two will not mix in either combination
[09:49] <apw> you should be able to make modules for the ubuntu kernel using the headers
[09:49] <apw> they should contain enough to allow 'out of tree' compilation of a module
[09:49] <smb> Were there any linux-headers-generic installed?
[09:50] <zeroprog> i tried that also....how do i install the mainline kernel?
[09:50] <zeroprog> yes smb
[09:51] <apw> it sounds like you already did, from those commands
[09:51] <apw> when you say 'it failed' what does that mean
[09:51] <zeroprog> id get the invalid format hello.ko error
[09:51] <apw> so somehow you are not making the module for either kernel it seems
[09:53] <zeroprog> i am sketchy at makefiles but heres mine http://pastebin.com/d3a99a3cd
[09:53] <zeroprog> i just switched it to the headers
[09:53] <smb> The danger lies in the absolute path for the headers
[09:54] <zeroprog> i dont see it
[09:54] <smb> normally you go through /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build
[09:54] <smb> make -C /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.28-11-generic M=$(PWD) modules
[09:55] <smb> ^ here you force it to use that path. That might not be your running kernel
[09:55] <apw> thats the one
[09:56] <apw> make -C /usr/src/linux-headers-`uname -r` M=`pwd` modules
[09:57] <smb> or "make -C /lib/modules/`uname -r`/build M=`pwd` modules"
[09:57] <smb> same for clean
[09:57] <zeroprog> i get target /path/to/my/src does not match target pattern
[09:59] <smb> That is another problem.  The rest might or might not be correct, given I just typed from my head
[10:06] <zeroprog> yeah im getting a missing separator error
[10:07] <smb> And just another note: I really do not understand the "make menu config" part. That sounds slightly like useless (or even dangerous) voodoo
[10:07] <zeroprog> the tutorial i read on installing and setting up the kernel source said to do it
[10:07] <zeroprog> actually it was the README
[10:08] <zeroprog> alright ive bothered u guys enough thanks for the help ill try to figure the rest out on my own
[10:22] <tjaalton> hey, I have no 3G with my thinkpad in karmic, worked in jaunty (and with the jaunty kernel)
[10:23] <tjaalton> I wonder if the kernel thinks it's disabled or something
[10:24] <tjaalton> filed bug 386528, will attach the dmesg output now..
[10:24] <ubot3> Malone bug 386528 in linux "[karmic] No sierra 3G with 2.6.30, works with 2.6.28" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386528
[10:24] <smb> tjaalton, Is the 3G visible in lspci -vvvnn (and has a module loaded)?
[10:24] <mvo> hello! looking at https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-karmic-flavours its not entirely clear to me what the new names will be linux-generic (with PAE) and linux-legacy (without) - what about linux-386? is that going to go away? what about -server, -virtual? -rt? etc?
[10:25] <smb> apw, Actually what was that ubuntu-bug incarnation that collects all kind of usefull data
[10:25] <tjaalton> smb: the module was listed in /etc/modules, so it's loaded, but can't see anything with lspci
[10:26] <apw> ubuntu-bug linux i thought
[10:26] <tjaalton> and the command is apport-collect ###, but I'd need to clear the lp auth first
[10:26] <apw> there is also apport-collect something to add it to another bug
[10:26] <tjaalton> where is the cookie stored?
[10:26] <smb> But given the fact it is not in lscpi looks a bit suspicious
[10:27] <smb> anyhow
[10:27] <tjaalton> I'll try .27
[10:27] <apw> mvo, the linux-386 version will remain in ports as far as i know
[10:27] <tjaalton> make that .28
[10:27] <smb> mvo, -rt has been a community kernel anyways
[10:28] <apw> mvo, the -server is likely to remain unchanged name wise.  -rt is a port flavour and not part of the review
[10:28] <smb> -386 a ports kernel (also community)
[10:29] <smb> I think that leaves virtual which anyways was a repackaged server kernel
[10:29] <tjaalton> smb: actually, it's a usb device, but lsusb doesn't show it either
[10:30] <mvo> thanks - so I will add code then that transitions from "generic" -> "legacy" if no PAE is available for now
[10:30] <smb> tjaalton, Heh, ok. Wrong lead then. Hm usb...
[10:31] <mvo> I'm still wondering what to do about -386 for people with old installs/upgrades. I guess it makes sense to transition them to -generic if they have PAE
[10:31] <mvo> ?
[10:32] <smb> mvo, If they have PAE that would make sense. What we were not quite clear is people without and possibly cpus not even up to M586
[10:34] <mvo> right. if PAE is safe I start with that, if there is a additional combination of flags/information to look at, I'm happy to add them too
[10:34] <smb> tjaalton, Just a very wild guess as all the usb modules have been compiled in in jaunty too. maybe you could experiment with unbinding the (crap which one was usb1) ehci driver
[10:34] <mvo> I just want to be very careful not to transition people to a kernel that does not boot
[10:34] <smb> mvo, We tried to start of with cpus whe have on that page.
[10:35] <mvo> smb: should I add info there as well for my machines (also I have mostly relatively recent ones)?
[10:35] <mvo> i.e. is that useful for you?
[10:36] <smb> mvo, Tentiatively it feels like getting info about the ones that might break (the older) being more helpful. apw, what would you say?
[10:36] <tjaalton> smb: ok I'll try. .28 shows it ok, sierra wireless 1199:6813
[10:37] <apw> smb, yeah agree with that
[10:38] <mvo> the oldest in use I have is a P3-mobile, I guess that is not really very helpful
[10:38] <mvo> thanks, I think I got enough info to add basic transition support
[10:41] <tjaalton> smb: hmm you mean not building EHCI_HCD in the kernel?
[10:41] <apw> mvo, there were people who were transistioned onto the 386 ports kerenl who prolly should not have been when upgrading
[10:42] <apw> from pre hardy->hardy which are worth considering in the transition
[10:42] <smb> tjaalton, No, actually (without any experience) I thought it should be possible to use sysfs to unbind the driver from activeness...
[10:42] <mvo> apw: there is no code in update-manager that would do a transition like this, they probably had -386 installed before?
[10:43] <mvo> apw: -386 -> -generic is done if they run a SMP kernel, but thats aobut all the magic there is currently
[10:43] <tjaalton> smb: ah. ok
[10:43] <apw> right, thats the issue.  older releases the i386 kernel was the default, they updated and ended up on the ports kernel, not thorough an action but through inaction
[10:44] <apw> you mentioned pulling them up to pae if they had support, it is worth considering pulling them up to -legacy if they have 586 and above
[10:44] <mvo> right, I know about this problem, I would love to fix it, but I need a reliable way to know what machines should not be transitioned
[10:44] <mvo> I do not want to transition everyone and end up with some machines no longer booting
[10:45] <mvo> ok, if 586 is good, I can certainly do that
[10:45] <smb> mvo, Yeah, we need the support of all low-level-cpu loving folks out there
[11:08] <tjaalton> smb: it's possible to unbind a device from the driver, but the device isn't bound anywhere..
[11:09] <cjwatson> can we please not call the non-PAE kernel "legacy"?
[11:10] <cjwatson> firstly, having names that are basically "old" and "new" runs into rather obvious trouble when you need a third; we found that with nvidia
[11:10] <cjwatson> descriptive names are *always* better
[11:10] <cjwatson> secondly, as I said in e-mail, I'm concerned about the likely performance of using PAE everywhere when it isn't necessary and I think "legacy" is considerably overoptimistic
[11:11] <apw> cjwatson, i thought the flip side was that the security people were very keen to have it turned on for NX
[11:11] <cjwatson> there are lots of considerations
[11:12] <cjwatson> but I don't think they're simple enough that we can just say "screw you guys, you're legacy"
[11:12] <apw> not trying to dismiss your concerns
[11:12] <cjwatson> I linked to a comment from Linus that was basically "people who turn on HIGHMEM64G are crackheads"
[11:12] <cjwatson> but anyway, why not just have value-neutral names?
[11:13] <cjwatson> Tim used -generic and -generic-pae in another place, which seemed reasonable
[11:13] <apw> yep, that part is separate and obvious
[11:14] <apw> as in i  htink we should separate the naming issues as against the how to choose the appropriate kernel issues
[11:14] <cjwatson> yes
[11:19] <apw> cjwatson, your thread as i see it has no mention of naming, we should inject that into that thread, as it seems to be the master discussion on this feature
[11:23] <cjwatson> that's because Tim's original mail in that thread used names I didn't object to :-)
[11:27] <cjwatson> apw: I've injected it now
[11:31] <apw> cjwatson, thanks thats excellent
[11:45] <tjaalton> smb: looks like the sierra doesn't work even with mainline <IP_ADDRESS>
[11:53] <apw> cjwatson, in what form is the kernel on the CD image.  is there a full kernel install, as in the .deb installed?
[11:54] <cjwatson> which CD image?
[11:54] <apw> hrm, i was thinking of the live ones
[11:54] <cjwatson> the .deb's just installed in the live filesystem
[11:54] <apw> thats what i assumed, thanks
[11:54] <cjwatson> the only difference from a regular installation is that the actual kernel image is removed, because it's also on the ISO9660 filesystem
[11:55] <cjwatson> saves us several megabytes
[11:55] <cjwatson> and the installer is smart enough to copy it from the right place
[11:55] <cjwatson> but other than that it's as normal
[11:55] <apw> thanks
[12:39] <smb> tjaalton, It least that narrows down the pile. Though it probably still is the whole of usb-core to look at
[13:16] <alex_joni> cjwatson: is that also true for 8.04 LiveCDs ?
[13:17] <alex_joni> cjwatson: meaning if I install a custom kernel deb, and I install the kernel and initrd outside the squashfs, can I simply remove the kernel from /boot ?
[13:24] <AceLan> alex_joni: I can't understand what's your problem, could you describe more explicitly?
[13:28] <alex_joni> AceLan: see what cjwatson said above
[13:30] <cjwatson> alex_joni: no, I'm afraid this was added in 8.10
[13:30] <cjwatson> AceLan: I understood :-)
[13:30] <alex_joni> cjwatson: ok, thanks.. something to remember for 10.04 then
[13:31] <cjwatson> (and it went badly wrong when first introduced, resulting in world-writable kernel images, but we fixed that just before release ...)
[13:32] <alex_joni> world-writable (after the copy from the CD to the live system) ?
[15:58] <rtg> soren: do we still need a 32 bit virtual kernel package for Karmic?
[16:34] <Keybuk> apw: Jan replied to the vfs union mount issue
[16:34] <apw> Keybuk, after the 'i'll look later' ?
[16:34] <Keybuk> Arrgh, it is the autofs crap that is killing us (see commit
[16:34] <Keybuk> 051d381259eb57d6074d02a6ba6e90e744f1a29f). They actually replace the nameidata
[16:34] <Keybuk> and therefore the inode operations when they see a symlink which isn't coming
[16:34] <Keybuk> from the filesystem of the parent directory. This is because their root dentry
[16:34] <Keybuk> is actually a symbolic link ...
[16:34] <Keybuk> Thanks for finding this,
[16:34] <Keybuk> Jan
[16:35] <apw> Keybuk, ahh yes
[16:35] <apw> so i guess we might get a fix sometime soon
[16:36] <Keybuk> yes
[16:36] <Keybuk> I didn't know whether the commit id was a fix or the cause
[16:36] <Keybuk> or which tree that was in
[16:36] <Keybuk> etc.
[16:36] <apw> looks to be the cause
[16:37] <apw>     [PATCH] autofs4: nameidata needs to be up to date for follow_link
[18:25] <cjwatson> alex_joni: after the copy from the CD to the *installed* system
[18:26] <cjwatson> alex_joni: but don't worry about it, it's fixed now
[20:59] <alex_joni> cjwatson: heh, I have tons of confidence that you guys squash these bugs pretty fast
[21:17] <solarion> Can also do more than 2 channels?
[21:17] <solarion> ALSA, rather
[21:18] <solarion> (is what this amd guy is saying: http://blogs.amd.com/home/2009/06/16/turning-it-up-to-11/comment-page-1/#comment-224)
[21:18] <solarion> ah, perhaps I misread; he meant that the current driver only does 2channel audio
[21:20] <cjwatson> alex_joni: where in this case "pretty fast" is "massive panic the day before release", yes :-/
[21:24] <alex_joni> cjwatson: don't we all work better under pressure and deadlines :D
[21:24] <alex_joni> errr.. not :D
[21:36] <dtchen> solarion: alsa does not place artificial limits on the number of channels available to software above it in the audio stack