[12:08] <mdz> hmm, debzilla seems to have stalled
[12:09] <mdz> I disabled the cron job, apparently
[12:11] <doko> oh, does this mean, we get all the RC reports from unstable?
[12:12] <Mithrandir> well, bed.
[12:15] <mjg59> mdz: Is there a more correct way of requesting a sync from Debian than just asking elmo on IRC?
[12:17] <elmo> if it's a new upstream version and in main, mail mdz, cc me.  if it's not, irc is fine, fallback on irc if I miss it
[12:17] <elmo> meh s/on irc/on email/
[12:17] <elmo> and I'm missing a lot ATM, thanks to apple being the worst company in the world EVAH
[12:19] <doko> elmo: may I fall back to irc as well? ;)
[12:20] <elmo> not at 11 o'clock at night, you can't no.  well you can try, but I retain rights to ignore you
[12:21] <doko> heh, I tried earlier as well ;)
[12:23] <mjg59> elmo: Ok - it would be good to get hotkey-setup from Debian once the new version is in the archive
[12:24] <elmo> mjg59: ok, irc syncs definitely only work if I can sync it _right now_ ;-) pls mail and I'll deal with it when it appears
[12:25] <doko> elmo: syncs from unstable to make anastacia happy: aspell-br 0.50-2-6 / ispellcat 0.4-4 / dutch 1:0.1e-37 / python-numeric (23.8-4), python-numarray (1.3.2-2)
[12:26] <doko> elmo: universe: python-extclass python-tz umfpack libghemical
[12:27] <ajmitch> elmo: sync clamav (UVF, but is security fix) please :)
[12:27] <elmo> eh, I synced clamav already today
[12:27] <mjg59> elmo: Ok, no problem
[12:28] <ajmitch> elmo: ah, thanks
[12:37] <mjg59> mdz: Does Colony 3 have restricted drivers in the installer?
[12:37] <mdz> mjg59: not unless someone did it without my noticing
[12:37] <mjg59> mdz: Ok
[12:52] <jdub> see what happens when a new colony CD is announced! stop that!
[12:54] <elmo> or that could be debzilla being turned back on ...
[12:56] <jdub> that's way less exciting
[12:56] <jdub> now you get to drink from THE FIRE HOSE!
[01:00] <mjg59> ogra: gnome-power-manager still doesn't seem to do much...
[01:03] <doko> mjg59: usually windows tools with "power" in it's name dont't do much either ;)
[01:04] <mjg59> doko: ?
[01:06] <robitaille> jdub:  it's the debzilla effect (now up to 310; maybe I should unsubscribe from ubuntu-bugs...)
[01:07] <Nafallo> jdub: have we got our mailinglist yet?! :-D
[01:09] <mjg59> Oh, yeah, can we have a laptop team mailing list?
[01:10] <jdub> Nafallo: today - i fell asleep as soon as i got home last night
[01:10] <jdub> mjg59: oh, you have one
[01:10] <jdub> mjg59: i sent you and claire the admin details
[01:11] <mjg59> jdub: Oh, do we?
[01:11] <mjg59> I don't think I got a mail from you
[01:11] <Nafallo> jdub: :-)
[01:12] <mjg59> jdub: Could you send it again? I may have accidently deleted it, or something
[01:12] <Nafallo> mjg59: manual spam-filter? ;-)
[01:16] <ajmitch> another mailing list for me to join? :)
[01:21] <elmo> man, there's going to be so many random dpkg questions again for hoary -> breezy
[01:23] <Keybuk> *nods*
[01:23] <Keybuk> daniels caused a lot of them ;)
[01:24] <mpt_> So, there's the main cdimage server, that has Colony but won't give it
[01:24] <mpt_> and the US mirror, that's nice and fast, but doesn't have Colony 3 yet
[01:25] <elmo> uh, it doesn't?
[01:25] <elmo> oh, yeah it won't
[01:25] <elmo> we only trigger releases
[01:25] <elmo> I should probably fix that
[01:30] <Keybuk> I still want to know whether this iz gtk bug or iz xkb bug
[01:58] <carstenh_> is there a standard way for changing /etc/network/interfaces in debian/ubuntu from a package maintainer script?
[01:59] <carstenh_> (it's not a conffile)
[02:06] <carstenh_> and what is the standard way for endusers to configure their network? i don't use  a standard-installation :/
[02:06] <HrdwrBoB> using network-admin
[02:06] <carstenh_> ok, thanks
[02:44] <elmo> christ on a stick, is there something like xmms (not rhythmbox), that doesn't use freaking GTK 1 file chooser dialogs?
[02:44] <elmo> very preferably in hoary
[02:45] <mgalvin> bmp maybe, not sure though
[02:45] <whiprush_> beep-media-player
[02:46] <Keybuk> mdz: so I've been looking at that annoying "eth0 can't be mapped reliably" warning
[02:46] <Keybuk> elmo: muine?
[02:48] <Keybuk> basically it looks like it always moans if you try and ifrename eth0 or wlan0
[02:48] <daniels> elmo: there's an xmms2 that uses gtk2.  but upstream are against it.  sapping and impurifying our precious bodily fluids.
[02:49] <elmo> ...
[02:49] <Keybuk> I think we can just add "-t" to the ifrename call in hotplug, but I'm not sure whether that will cause death and destruction or not
[02:49] <jdub> yeah, use muine
[02:49] <Keybuk> alternatively, we can comment out the warning ;)
[02:49] <jdub> it is rad
[02:49] <jdub> if you like xmms stylin's
[02:50] <jdub> well, sort of
[02:50] <jdub> try it anyway
[02:50] <elmo> yeah, I'm installing both muine and b-m-p to try
[02:50] <infinity> Keybuk : Given that the ifrename run happens before the network comes up, -t /should/ DTRT.
[02:50] <Keybuk> infinity: it's whether it runs before the _other_ network interface comes up though, isn't it
[02:51] <Keybuk> the manpage claims "this is not compatible with hotplug", but I can't see why
[02:52] <carstenh_> i don't like the idea of randomly changing interface names either
[02:52] <Keybuk> well, in theory, -t will result in the interface names always matching what iftab says
[02:52] <infinity> They can randomly change, depending on when hotplug detects them, or what order the kernel drivers load in, or the phase of the moon, or who knows what.  That's the point of ifrename.
[02:52] <infinity> Keybuk : Exactly.  The only real way to know for sure is to do some testing, I guess.
[02:53] <jdub> ifrename punched me in the face the other day
[02:53] <infinity> Keybuk : It can't be much worse than the current situation, where half our users will have their interfaces move between hoary and breezy "just cause".
[02:54] <Keybuk> jdub: what did it do?
[02:54] <jdub> i tried to change iftab, but the kernel just complained about trying to rename each device on top of the other
[02:54] <Keybuk> infinity: I've played a bit, and I couldn't futz it
[02:54] <jdub> so it never actually did what it was told
[02:54] <Keybuk> jdub: ah, see, you _wanted_ this "-t" we're discussing
[02:54] <Keybuk> -t is "takeover the interface name and do what I say, not what the kernel says"
[02:54] <jdub> oh
[02:55] <infinity> And -t is pretty much required on most machines with multiple interfaces.
[02:55] <infinity> So, I'm not sure why we weren't already using it.
[02:55] <jdub> oh well, the tulip card probably rocks harder than the nvidia one anyway ;)
[02:55] <mdz> Keybuk: doesn't -t come with some scary warning attached?
[02:55] <mdz> "MAY EAT KITTENS"
[02:55] <Keybuk> mdz: -t won't work if the interface name you're trying to steal is already plumbed
[02:56] <Keybuk> but we aggressively seed /etc/iftab with every interface, no?
[02:56] <mdz> Keybuk: but it will if it exists but is down?
[02:56] <mjg59> The death of kittens is necessary
[02:56] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, exists but down is fine
[02:56] <mjg59> Otherwise how would they get to heaven?
[02:56] <mdz> Keybuk: we seed it at install time, yes
[02:56] <Keybuk> I managed to successfully swap my eth0 and ath0 around when playing
[02:57] <infinity> (Note that they MUST be down for it to work... So we should ensure that's the case)
[02:59] <infinity> ie: Ensure everything listed in iftab is down; then perform swaps, make it atomic (ish).  Cause if one interface is up, the whole operation will go tits-up in curious ways (like you may end up with an interface with a completely random name)
[02:59] <Keybuk> actually, it's not that random
[02:59] <Keybuk> and it goes tits up in curious ways _now_ :p
[02:59] <infinity> Not in random ways, though.
[03:00] <infinity> "Not renaming the interfaces at all" is a pretty normal behaviour.
[03:01] <Keybuk> ya know we run ifrename _after_ hotplug right now? heh
[03:01] <infinity> Yes.
[03:02] <Keybuk> if we move S40ifrename to S39ifrename, it'll get run before hotplug and networking
[03:02] <infinity> And then any interfaces that only exist as a result of hotplug can't get renamed.
[03:02] <Keybuk> yeah they can, because hotplug's net.agent calls ifrename
[03:02] <Keybuk> (before calling ifup)
[03:03] <infinity> Hrm.  So, we'd still want/need the -t in the ifrename init script, but could probably skip it in hotplug (since we'd assume any names the hotplug devices conflict with have already been renamed)?
[03:03] <Keybuk> exactly
[03:04] <infinity> Seems fair.
[03:04] <mdz> Keybuk: should we be calling ifrename at boot time at all?
[03:04] <mdz> isn't it called by hotplug at the right time?
[03:04] <mdz> s/at boot time/from its init script/
[03:04] <Keybuk> if we didn't call its own init script, we couldn't rename interfaces that aren't hotplug
[03:05] <infinity> Does hotplug walk all network interfaces and act on them, regardless of their actualy hotplugginess?
[03:05] <infinity> s/actualy/actual/
[03:05] <Keybuk> ie. users fannying around adding "auto" stuff
[03:05] <Keybuk> infinity: ish. it looks at all interfaces briefly, but only processes ones it thinks it should
[03:05] <infinity> Right, then we need the init script.
[03:06] <infinity> If it only acts on "mapping=hotplug" ones (or whatever)
[03:06] <elmo> [I haven't been following this but:]  it'd be kind of nice to not mandate hotplugging of interfaces
[03:06] <Keybuk> elmo: indeed
[03:09] <Keybuk> ah, we don't need to move the init script
[03:09] <Keybuk> it's still before "networking"
[03:09] <Keybuk> just make sure that we call it with -t in net.agent and its own init script
[03:10] <infinity> I'm pretty sure that's what you said 10 minutes ago. :)
[03:10] <Keybuk> that's good then, I'm in agreement with myself
[03:14] <Keybuk> ok, that's really confusing now
[03:16] <Keybuk> this'd fix #13551 too
[03:18] <Keybuk> (as well as #8391 & #10240)
[03:19] <Keybuk> mdz: what do you reckon?  stick it in now and back it out if anyone screams?
[03:20] <mdz> Keybuk:  it == -t?
[03:20] <Keybuk> yeah
[03:20] <Keybuk> I've had an hour of playing of renaming and swapping three interfaces on my laptop, and can't actually make it break
[03:20] <Keybuk> actually, that's not true, I made it break by deliberately adding an earlier boot that ifup'd one of them -- but all it did then was said "File exists" and didn't rename either of the two involved
[03:22] <mdz> Keybuk: yes, I think that's sane
[03:22] <mdz> in fact I think we discussed this late in hoary as a thing to do for breezy
[03:26] <daniels> mdz: makedepend needs NEWing before Mesa can build, as does the libdrm I'm uploading now
[03:28] <jdub> daniels: are all the metapackage dependencies working to have xkb work by default now? it works on my desktop but not on my laptop...
[03:29] <infinity> jdub : Was your laptop upgraded through several broken breezy upgrades, or a hoary->recentBreezy upgrade?
[03:29] <jdub> several breezy upgrades
[03:29] <jdub> i'm all about the devel branch, man
[03:29] <infinity> jdub : If you stepped through the many broken breezies, that's known to be problematic, and Daniel's mail to -devel/-users gave some hints about what to do to unbreak it.
[03:29] <jdub> hrm, pretty sure i did that
[03:30] <jdub> daniels: btw, with mgp:
[03:30] <jdub> imake -DUseInstalled -I/etc/X11/config/cf
[03:30] <jdub> In file included from /etc/X11/config/cf/Imake.tmpl:47,
[03:30] <jdub>                  from Imakefile.c:35:
[03:30] <jdub> /etc/X11/config/cf/site.def:44: error: host.def: No such file or directory
[03:30] <jdub> In file included from /etc/X11/config/cf/linux.cf:1085,
[03:30] <jdub>                  from /etc/X11/config/cf/Imake.tmpl:106,
[03:30] <jdub>                  from Imakefile.c:35:
[03:30] <jdub> /etc/X11/config/cf/xorg.cf:13: error: date.def: No such file or directory
[03:30] <jdub> imake: Exit code 1.
[03:30] <jdub>   Stop.
[03:30] <jdub>
[03:31] <infinity> jdub : Yeah, siretart saw that last night building libforms1 too.
[03:31] <jdub> aha, was missing lots of files
[03:31] <jdub> sorted xkb
[03:31] <daniels> yeargh.  stupid diff outsmarted me.
[03:32] <infinity> jdub : Missed the "--force-confmiss" step?
[03:32] <jdub> yeah
[03:32] <daniels> (it excludes empty files, and doesn't tell you about it)
[03:35] <daniels> jdub: fix uploaded; itmt, just touch /etc/X11/config/cf/{host,date}.def
[03:36] <jdub> daniels: thanks!
[03:37] <jdub> d'oh, build failure anyway ;)
[03:37] <jdub> draw.o: In function `xft_getdraw':
[03:37] <jdub> draw.c:(.text+0x2904): undefined reference to `XftDrawCreate'
[03:39] <daniels> jdub: sounds like it's wanting -lXft.  which package is this?
[03:40] <jdub> mgp
[03:40] <jdub> it has -lXft
[03:40] <daniels> jdub: worked for me ...
[03:40] <jdub> ah, it had a blank -L before it though
[03:40] <jdub> must've short circuited
[03:40] <daniels> daniels@brainfreeze:~% objdump -T /usr/lib/libXft.so | egrep 'XftDrawCreate$'
[03:41] <daniels><PHONE_NUMBER>008d30 g    DF .text<PHONE_NUMBER>0000ba  Base        XftDrawCreate
[03:41] <daniels> yeah, blank -L's make the baby Jesus cry
[03:41] <jdub> once i deleted the -L, it was fine
[03:42] <jdub> crap, and it still has the broken fonts -2 had
[03:43] <daniels> svgslides is calling you
[03:47] <mgalvin> daniels: just a heads up... 7439 is fixed (works for me anyway)
[03:49] <Keybuk> it's nice to see people describing when ${random piece of software} will be available by what Ubuntu release it'll turn up in
[03:50] <infinity> Keybuk : And what random piece of software are we shipping now? :)
[03:51] <Keybuk> they were talking about gtk-using-cairo-and-running-like-a-dog :p
[03:53] <TheMuso> Has anybody's 2nd stage install of Breezy colony 3 on i386 frozen at 91%? The message currently being displayed is Downloading files 5 of 6 (0s remaining)
[03:55] <TheMuso> On VT 4, it appears that new packages are going to be installed. There is nothing left to download, but it is stuck at 57% and says that it is working.
[04:06] <daniels> mgalvin: as in, the nvidia drivers?
[04:06] <daniels> mgalvin: what problem were you having in the first place?
[04:16] <mdz> elmo: if you're still around, Colin's cron jobs can be re-enabled now
[04:25] <Keybuk> /etc/init.d/gdm start ... laptop goes down
[04:26] <jdub> hrm
[04:27] <jdub> my battery applet is still b0rk
[04:27] <jdub> hal bong!
[04:27] <Keybuk> ?!  "cannot execute binary file"
[04:27] <Keybuk> wtf is my laptop on?
[04:28] <elmo> mdz: done
[04:28] <Keybuk> no, it's not my laptop
[04:28] <Keybuk> elmo: the buildds just managed to generate a binary that was all \0
[04:29] <Keybuk> oh, no, wait
[04:29] <Keybuk> XFS
[04:29] <mgalvin> daniels: its the bug number for the issue i had where with both the installed system and the live cd X would always start up with just a blank screen... i always have to switch to con6 then back to con7 to get the display to work... this problem is fixed with the current x server
[04:29] <mgalvin> it starts up normally now
[04:30] <mgalvin> on intel i810 graphic chipsets
[04:30] <daniels> mgalvin: oh, ok
[04:30] <daniels> mgalvin: thanks
[04:30] <mgalvin> np
[04:45] <krystoff> hi there
[04:47] <krystoff> wanna know where i can find docs about the way do well-done packages for ubuntu ?
[04:50] <rbelem> krystoff, hi...
[04:50] <krystoff> :)
[04:51] <rbelem> look these links
[04:51] <rbelem> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingTips
[04:51] <rbelem> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
[04:51] <krystoff> thx a lot
[04:51] <rbelem> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[04:51] <krystoff> yes i m on this one :)
[04:52] <rbelem> http://www.nl.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/
[04:52] <rbelem> ;-)
[04:52] <Keybuk> so, err, silly question time -- do we have either a ppc or amd64 machine I can debug something on?
[04:53] <rbelem> there are more links at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RodrigoBelem
[04:53] <krystoff> in fact i have a source .tar.gz and wanna create a package with it ... i m looking for the right info ?
[04:55] <mdz> Keybuk: yes
[04:55] <rbelem> krystoff, yep ;-)
[04:55] <Keybuk> I'm guessing I never got accounts on those while I was in the lp team? :p
[04:55] <mdz> Keybuk: concordia.ubuntu.com is an amd64
[04:55] <krystoff> ok thx a lot rbelem
[04:56] <Keybuk> don't have an account on that
[04:58] <infinity> Keybuk : And you want davis for ppc.  (which yo umay also no have an account on)
[04:58] <infinity> But with fewer typos.
[04:58] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[04:58] <Keybuk> yah; some elmo-worshipping needed tomorrow I think
[04:59] <Keybuk> jdub: dude, I'm awake ... you expect someone else from the UK to be?
[04:59] <daniels> Keybuk: elmo was until very recently
[04:59] <jdub> Keybuk: you might be keeping him awake :)
[04:59] <Keybuk> he slept on the SOFA
[04:59] <jdub> well, get some matches and some spare plastic lying around
[04:59] <jdub> and stick it where the oxygen don't burn
[05:00] <daniels> i thought oxygen never burnt, but just acted as a catalyst
[05:04] <rbelem> krystoff, ;-)
[05:07] <krystoff> ok it seems big work to do :)
[05:10] <krystoff> rbelem ok the first thing i have to do is a chroot env right ?
[05:17] <bob2> well, that's handy
[05:17] <fabbione> morning
[05:22] <Keybuk> uh-oh, fabbione's awake; must be bed time! :p
[05:22] <Keybuk> heyhey fabio!  *hugs*
[05:24] <fabbione> hey Keybuk
[05:25] <Keybuk> how you doing?
[05:25] <mdz> good morning sir fabio
[05:25] <fabbione> still jetlagged that you are awake so late?
[05:25] <fabbione> hey mdz...
[05:25] <Keybuk> I'm not sure it's jet-lag, but just my usual inability to sleep at times other people consider normal
[05:25] <fabbione> Keybuk: injecting the first liter of coffee in my blood
[05:25] <fabbione> i am not even awake yet :P
[05:26] <fabbione> mdz: congrat with Colony 3. i am going to break a couple of things for a day... need to upload a new kernel with ABI change and all the rest to realling the overall
[05:26] <fabbione> mdz: the usual abi change drill
[05:27] <mdz> fabbione: I thought you were joking about that
[05:27] <fabbione> no i wasn't...
[05:28] <fabbione> but we are not ready for upload yet.
[05:28] <fabbione> i need to finish the test builds around first
[05:28] <mdz> fabbione: when you are ready, try to coordinate as much as possible to minimize the breakage
[05:28] <fabbione> (we are almost there)
[05:28] <mdz> get the source, builds, seed changes, and d-i build done in quick succession
[05:28] <fabbione> mdz: yup.. i already have all the other packages ready.
[05:28] <fabbione> i will need somebody with super power to new the overall
[05:29] <fabbione> or somebody to give me super power to do so
[05:29] <mdz> elmo and I usually don't sleep at the same time
[05:29] <fabbione> yes i know.. don't worry.. i didn't plan to make a mess around :)
[05:29] <mdz> what is your estimated launch time?
[05:29] <fabbione> tomorrow morning.. probably at this time
[05:29] <fabbione> it depends how fast i can manage to test build today
[05:29] <mdz> your/elmo's morning or mine?
[05:30] <fabbione> my time
[05:30] <mdz> this lithuanian beer is pretty tasty
[05:30] <fabbione> ehehhe
[05:30] <mdz> stevea is not the only worthwhile thing coming from lithuania
[05:30] <Keybuk> I think BjornT would resent that
[05:30] <mdz> oh, that's right
[05:30] <mdz> he seems to spend so little time there I forgot he was native
[05:30] <fabbione> mdz: i might also prepare all the packages for you and you can do the upload/NEW dance your morning..
[05:31] <fabbione> if you prefer that solution
[05:31] <Keybuk> and stevea really comes from lancashire, and just pretends to be lituanian ;P
[05:32] <mdz> he doesn't pretend very well
[05:32] <Keybuk> this is true
[05:32] <mdz> unless lithuanians really like eggs
[05:34] <luis_> tseng: you around?
[05:34] <mdz> colony 3 isn't on distrowatch yet; ladislav must be sleeping
[05:34] <Keybuk> he's cutting down on the eggs
[05:34] <Keybuk> didn't touch a single one in Brazil
[05:34] <daniels> Keybuk: ?!?
[05:35] <daniels> Keybuk: you're sure this was the real SteveA, and not an infiltrator
[05:35] <Keybuk> it was the real one, nobody else has psychic hair
[05:35] <whiprush_> luis_: your test pdf blows up my evince in breezy
[05:35] <mdz> Keybuk: that one deserves an explanation
[05:35] <Keybuk> have you never noticed that SteveA's hair reflects his mood?
[05:35] <Keybuk> when he's relaxed, laid-back, or (more usually) drunk -- it gets very fluffy and wavey
[05:36] <Keybuk> but if he's stressed or angry about something, it goes flat and straight
[05:36] <luis_> whiprush_: I'm running HEAD, not breezy perse, and I believe there is a cairo bug in the last release wrt evince and fonts
[05:36] <whiprush_> ah ok, good to know
[05:38] <mdz> Keybuk: it's not so much psychic as empathic
[05:38] <Keybuk> perhaps
[05:44] <fabbione> Keybuk: i had an insane idea for dpkg...
[05:44] <fabbione> Keybuk: when you are more fresh we should talk about it
[05:44] <fabbione> it might tickle your imagination :)
[05:44] <Keybuk> actually, I'm pretty fresh now
[05:44] <mdz> you're always pretty fresh
[05:44] <Keybuk> I am?
[05:44] <fabbione> ok :)
[05:44] <mdz> in one sense or another
[05:45] <daniels> you win
[05:45] <fabbione> hehe
[05:46] <fabbione> Keybuk: the idea is to kill metapackages. they are horribly boring to maintain and keep around.
[05:46] <fabbione> Keybuk: some part of it is implemented already as task
[05:46] <Keybuk> I dunno, he's been my boss just three days, and he's already getting offensive :p
[05:46] <fabbione> Keybuk: but it's not exactly the same
[05:46] <Keybuk> i'm listening
[05:47] <fabbione> so my idea was to introduce a keyword in the control file like:
[05:47] <fabbione> PartOf: $package_foo
[05:48] <fabbione> so N package that are part of package foo, will be automatically installed if you ask apt to install foo...
[05:48] <daniels> don't we already have the Task: field for this?
[05:48] <fabbione> without having a metapackage called foo
[05:48] <Keybuk> that does sound remarkably exactly the same as the way Tasks work now
[05:48] <fabbione> daniels: this is more dynamic.. tasks are maintained at archive level
[05:48] <Keybuk> stick Task: wibble in a bunch of packages
[05:48] <Keybuk> aptitude install ~twibble
[05:48] <daniels> fabbione: err, last I checked, Task: was done in a control field
[05:49] <mdz> Keybuk: I am completely tame; I leave the offense to sabdfl
[05:49] <fabbione> hmmm
[05:49] <fabbione> Keybuk: i tought that Task was for archive only...
[05:49] <fabbione> if that's the case, than no. it's no need of Task:
[05:49] <fabbione> s/Task/PartOf
[05:49] <Keybuk> you can stick Task: in control files and Packages files and stuff
[05:50] <fabbione> ok
[05:50] <fabbione> than forget my idea :)
[05:50] <fabbione> DANKE
[05:50] <Keybuk> good idea though :p
[05:50] <mdz> the difference between tasks and metapackages is that metapackages have state
[05:51] <fabbione> mdz: yes.. that was the idea in PArtOF.. to keep a state...
[05:51] <fabbione> but well i guess it's no point..
[05:51] <mdz> fabbione: how so?
[05:51] <Keybuk> yeah, it'd be nice to be able to remember whether a task was "installed" or not and use that in the calculation for the auto stuff
[05:51] <Keybuk> I'm sure mvo and I talked about that in UDU
[05:51] <mdz> if we implemented metapackages using properly-handled Recommends, that would be very close to the ideal semantics
[05:52] <Keybuk> "properly-handled" ?
[05:52] <mdz> aptitude/dselect semantics
[05:52] <mdz> rather than, say, apt-get semantics
[05:52] <mdz> you know, it would go a long way toward that if I just got rid of apt-get
[05:53] <Keybuk> $ apt-get install foo
[05:53] <Keybuk>  ______________
[05:53] <Keybuk> < use aptitude >
[05:53] <Keybuk>  --------------
[05:53] <Keybuk>         \   ^__^
[05:53] <Keybuk>          \  (oo)\_______
[05:53] <Keybuk>             (__)\       )\/\
[05:53] <Keybuk>                 ||----w |
[05:53] <Keybuk>                 ||     ||
[05:53] <mdz> if aptitude did build-dep I could totally get away with it
[05:53] <mdz> replace apt-get with a shell script and see if anyone notices
[05:53] <Lathiat> haha Keybuk
[05:53] <daniels> mdz: dude, you have a hard enough time convincing people that dselect is a bad idea.  htf do you expect to slip apt-get by them?
[05:53] <mdz> daniels: I only have a hard time convincing *Colin*
[05:54] <Keybuk> and elmo
[05:54] <daniels> mdz: (and elmo)
[05:54] <Keybuk> my plans to move dselect into universe for breezy have failed :'(
[05:54] <mdz> elmo is beyond hope
[05:54] <mdz> Keybuk: how so?
[05:54] <Keybuk> I guess you'd also have to include iwj in that list now too
[05:54] <mdz> it is not too late, as far as I'm concerned :-P
[05:55] <Keybuk> elmo suggested that it was his project, and his ftp archive, and there was no way he was going to run universe software on our servers, so ergo it wouldn't go in
[05:55] <daniels> mdz: sure, scott can ask for it to be moved, but you say that like it has any gravity
[05:55] <Keybuk> and as he was the only person with the button to make that change, etc.
[05:55] <daniels> right
[05:55] <mdz> he isn't anymore
[05:55] <mdz> but 2 of the 3 people with that power are dselect weenies
[05:55] <Keybuk> though it was much louder, with more swearing and funnier; because elmo said it
[05:55] <calc> dselect rox
[05:55] <Lathiat> peopel still use dselect?
[05:56] <LaserJock> have any of you install Breezy from Colony 3?
[05:56] <mdz> LaserJock: yes, I do tend to do that a few times before announcing a release ;-)
[05:56] <Keybuk> Lathiat: I know of at least one person who still uses the dpkg ftp method, and dselect; and doesn't even have apt installed
[05:56] <Lathiat> dselect caused me much paino when i started on debian, its ui was horrid.
[05:56] <Lathiat> i never really use aptitude tho
[05:56] <Lathiat> i just use apt-cache and apt-get
[05:56] <LaserJock> mdz: I had trouble getting things installed smoothly, aptitude keeps freezing
[05:57] <calc> LaserJock: aptitude sorting is horrid
[05:57] <mdz> LaserJock: hardware problems?
[05:57] <Keybuk> I use aptitude
[05:57] <calc> LaserJock: if aptitude got decent sorting it could probably be a useful replacement for dselect
[05:57] <LaserJock> mdz: I was having trouble with X
[05:57] <Keybuk> I've given up even testing dselect these days :)  I figure if I break it, the only people who care will fix it for me
[05:58] <LaserJock> I keep rebooting and it seems to get further
[05:58] <LaserJock> but X seems to be spotty too
[05:58] <Keybuk> LaserJock: freezing where, out of interest?
[05:59] <LaserJock> Keybuk: I had a hard time getting through the first reboot
[05:59] <Keybuk> LaserJock: which bit was freezing though, what was on screen at the time?
[05:59] <mdz> LaserJock: run a memory test
[06:00] <mdz> there's one available from the grub menu
[06:00] <LaserJock> downloading 9 out of 10 .. something or another
[06:00] <mdz> Keybuk: LWN article on autopackage
[06:00] <mdz> it doesn't include even one occurrence of the word "crack"
[06:01] <LaserJock> BTW, Colony 2 worked fine
[06:01] <mdz> LaserJock: if you still have colony 2, try it again and see if it still works
[06:02] <LaserJock> well, I'm dual booting with Hoary, does that count?
[06:02] <AndyFitz> mfz,  even mike hearn has mentioned that its crack :-)
[06:02] <Keybuk> wasn't someone else complaining about the same thing earlier?
[06:03] <Keybuk> TheMuso Has anybody's 2nd stage install of Breezy colony 3 on i386 frozen at 91%? The message currently being displayed is Downloading files 5 of 6 (0s remaining)
[06:03] <Keybuk> TheMuso On VT 4, it appears that new packages are going to be installed. There is nothing left to download, but it is stuck at 57% and says that it is working.
[06:03] <mdz> Keybuk: not that I've heard
[06:03] <AndyFitz> but it was usefuly for inkscape development snapshots
[06:03] <mdz> LaserJock: when you say "freezing", do you mean the system hangs, or the progress bar stops being updated?
[06:03] <ajmitch> mdz: so you don't want the autopackage installer in universe? :)
[06:03] <mdz> LaserJock: try alt+f4 or such
[06:03] <LaserJock> other vt's work
[06:04] <mdz> oh, ok
[06:04] <LaserJock> I do top and I there is 0 CPU activity
[06:04] <mdz> perhaps a network issue, then
[06:04] <LaserJock> it is exactly ad Keybuk said
[06:04] <LaserJock> *as
[06:04] <Keybuk> why does the CD download stuff?  language packs?
[06:04] <ajmitch> I'm just surprised that noone requested autopackage on the universe candidates list
[06:04] <mdz> Keybuk: a bug
[06:04] <mdz> Keybuk: (yes, language packs)
[06:05] <ajmitch> afternoon jsgotangco
[06:05] <mdz> ajmitch: well, the author did come by and say we were wasting our time packaging things and that we should use autopackage instead
[06:05] <jsgotangco> hi
[06:07] <LaserJock> well, i'm not so worried about the install thing because I restarted a few times and it got farther each time and I think it is done
[06:07] <Keybuk> Users have often been heard to complain, however, that the GNOME hackers Know Too Much to listen to those cries as they follow the One True Course. A tendency by some developers to describe user requests as "crack" probably has not helped in this regard.
[06:07] <Keybuk> *giggle*
[06:07] <LaserJock> however, I installed the nvidia drivers and now X doesn't work
[06:07] <TheMuso> Keybuk: I was able to get past it though.  I am going to attempt an install on PowerPC as well and if I get the same problem, I will let you know.
[06:08] <Lathiat> Keybuk: haha
[06:08] <mdz> Keybuk: "crack" totally started as an Ubuntu-ism, not a GNOME-ism
[06:08] <Keybuk> it did
[06:09] <mdz> now all the cool kids are saying it
[06:09] <jsgotangco> hehe
[06:10] <Keybuk> way back in London
[06:10] <AndyFitz> its been heard of before within redhat
[06:10] <mdz> "way the hell back"
[06:10] <Keybuk> when mdz had hair
[06:10] <AndyFitz> nobody knows where it came from
[06:10] <mdz> almost 18 months!
[06:11] <mdz> Keybuk: I temporarily had hair in London
[06:11] <daniels> eh, crack was a debianism
[06:11] <Keybuk> I'll have been at this company 18 months in just two weeks
[06:11] <mdz> daniels: debian described people as being "on crack" or "smoking crack", but not the ideas themselves as "crack"
[06:12] <mdz> Keybuk: having fun yet? ;-)
[06:12] <daniels> mdz: point
[06:12] <mdz> jdub: what was OSCON like?
[06:13] <whiprush_> I'm pretty sure "crack" was a gnome-ism from a long time back.
[06:14] <whiprush_> "That said, the goal is a "mainstream" rather than "UNIX" desktop and that goal has always been explicit. So _when_ there's a tradeoff or conflict the needs of office workers will win out over those of a 20-year UNIX sysadmin. Not a secret."
[06:14] <mdz> whiprush_: this debate will go down in the annals of history next to "who put the bomp in the bomp-she-bomp"
[06:14] <whiprush_> heh, havoc rocks.
[06:14] <daniels> mdz: THE CHICKEN!
[06:15] <Keybuk> mdz: things are improving, certainly
[06:15] <mdz> we should have an Ubuntu vs. GNOME ultimate frisbee match to settle it
[06:15] <whiprush_> so, jam was on the linux link tech show tonight, lots of good ltsp and ubuntu publicity.
[06:16] <mdz> yeah, he mentioned it on #ltsp
[06:16] <mdz> is the show available for download?
[06:16] <Keybuk> ah yes, isn't that lugradio without all the foul-mouthed ubuntu-worship? :p
[06:16] <whiprush_> I believe it is a few hours after the cas.
[06:17] <robitaille> mdz: http://www.tllts.info/archives/tllts_97-08-17-05.ogg
[06:17] <mdz> thanks
[06:17] <whiprush_> they did it live though, the first 30 minutes is them struggling with asterisk.
[06:17] <whiprush_> pretty painfull.
[06:18] <LaserJock> does anybody know how to diagnose why X won't start when there aren't any errors in the X log?
[06:18] <jdub> mdz: pretty good. it's like lca but with a very corporate attendee profile (very expensive conference). heaps more web and scripting stuff.
[06:18] <mdz> hah, this is hilarious
[06:19] <mdz> they have a pretty pro-sounding voiceover guy
[06:19] <whiprush_> yeah
[06:19] <whiprush_> it has like, voiceover repeats and stuff.
[06:20] <whiprush_> "This Sunday, SUNDAY! Watch monster trucks take on LINUX!"
[06:20] <mdz> jdub: there should be an oscon which is about operating systems
[06:20] <robitaille> jdub: were the mailing lists ever moved to a server with spamassassin? (wondering if the spams I reject as a list admin is the iceberg, or the tip of one)
[06:20] <`anthony> jdub: don't forget lots of vendor-supplied free alcohol!
[06:20] <jdub> mdz: i think they call it USENIX, but it's all lame now.
[06:20] <mdz> jdub: USENIX is totally has-been
[06:20] <jdub> robitaille: haven't been moved yet, no, but will be doing SA in the interim.
[06:21] <`anthony> isn't lca06 in foreign places?
[06:21] <jsgotangco> its in dunedin
[06:21] <jsgotangco> NZ
[06:22] <ajmitch> `anthony: yeah, the other australian state
[06:22] <mdz> ouch, clipping
[06:22] <jsgotangco> january is summer right?
[06:22] <Keybuk> ajmitch: I've tried to submit a talk, and have tried to bribe the panel to accept it, so we'll see :p
[06:22] <whiprush_> jdub: oy you going to make it this way for ohiolinux?
[06:23] <jdub> whiprush_: it's looking like a no
[06:23] <jdub> otherwise i'm going to be away from home for months on end
[06:23] <Keybuk> . o O { Whatever happened to Ubuntu Weekly News ? }
[06:23] <whiprush_> k
[06:23] <jdub> if my travel schedule materialises as I think
[06:24] <Keybuk> s/Weekly News/Traffic/
[06:24] <mdz> Keybuk: the fridge ate it
[06:24] <Keybuk> the fridge never happened though, did it?
[06:24] <jdub> we didn't have a UWN
[06:24] <jdub> Keybuk: fridge is happening as we speak
[06:24] <whiprush_> Keybuk: yeah dude, get with it.
[06:24] <jdub> we still need a traffic regardless of fridge
[06:24] <jsgotangco> where?
[06:24] <daniels> mdz: can we please move libglut3-dev from universe to main kthx
[06:25] <daniels> mdz: it's a dependenciy of freeglut3-dev (main), which makes it uninstallable
[06:25] <mdz> daniels: is it a new source?
[06:25] <daniels> mdz: and the rest of the glut source package seems to be in main
[06:25] <daniels> mdz: no
[06:25] <whiprush_> jdub: jam and I will do an ubuntu talk at ohiolinux, probably gonna have aseigo do a few slides wrt. kubuntu.
[06:25] <infinity> mdz : No, the source is glut, which is alreayd in main.
[06:25] <Keybuk> "If a project provides an autopackage, you know it can work on your distribution."
[06:25] <mdz> daniels: what's the name of the source package?
[06:25] <Keybuk> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[06:25] <mdz> infinity: tx
[06:25] <whiprush_> jdub: I heard your slides are very rip off-able ...
[06:25] <daniels> mdz: but it is required for mesa to build (feel free to ponder the irony of the libGL build requiring the GL Utility Toolkit, which is built on top of libGL)
[06:25] <mdz> daniels: done
[06:25] <Keybuk> yes, especially when it provides a file that gets overwritten by something provided by something else
[06:26] <daniels> mdz: thanks
[06:26] <mdz> cancel that
[06:26] <LaserJock> is there any reason that the nividia drivers (installed from synaptic) would prevent X from starting?
[06:26] <mdz> attempted, but failed
[06:26] <jdub> whiprush_: hrm, dunno about that, my talks are mgp
[06:26] <infinity> ...
[06:26] <jdub> whiprush_: but my talk will be up soon with slides
[06:26] <daniels> erm
[06:26] <mdz> I think katie is pissed about the fact that it's the same version in warty, hoary and breezy
[06:26] <whiprush_> jdub: you're so sun dude. it's all about ME ME ME.
[06:26] <whiprush_> :p
[06:26] <jdub> there's a tarball of slide images though
[06:26] <`anthony> jdub: mgp?
[06:26] <jdub> magicpoint
[06:26] <mdz> daniels: should be sorted now
[06:27] <daniels> thanks
[06:27] <AndyFitz> jdub,  get the font ?
[06:27] <jdub> yep
[06:27] <jdub> you should pitch it to the kubuntu guys, to fix up their ugly k
[06:28] <jdub> the m and w are a bit square
[06:28] <jdub> the z doesn't seem to fit, either
[06:28] <AndyFitz> yeah they used to be 2 n's   but they looked a bit weird.  I'll try lowering the arches a step to round them off
[06:28] <mdz> z is important
[06:28] <AndyFitz> the Z and the X are the 2 glyphs I'm having trouble with
[06:28] <AndyFitz> I just can't sex them up
[06:28] <jdub> actually, most of the characters with straight lines look a little odd
[06:29] <jdub> v, x
[06:29] <jdub> c doesn't look round enough
[06:29] <mdz> the font was designed as a curvy roundy thing
[06:29] <AndyFitz> v is curved a little ( on janes request )
[06:29] <jdub> yeah, doesn't quite go though; perhaps thinner would work
[06:29] <AndyFitz> the d,be,h&p are all the same shape ( as in the logo )
[06:29] <jdub> the s is not very curvy, for a curvy character in a curvy font
[06:30] <jdub> the numbers are all a bit whacky ;-) ;-)
[06:30] <AndyFitz> hrm  yeah it used to be even straighter.  I'll curve it a bit more ( no more horizontal beziers )
[06:31] <Gman> whiprush_, hey, what's wrong with sun!?!? don't forget there's an 'S' in sun....'share' :)
[06:31] <`anthony> AndyFitz: You're designing a font, and asking for opinions? dear gods, you're in for a world of hurt.
[06:31] <jdub> e is great
[06:31] <jdub> that seems to fit more closely than the s style
[06:31] <AndyFitz> and the numbers suck :-P   the title font shouldnt have uppercase glyphs and I don't see numbers / symbols coming into it either  but I'll let them evolve
[06:31] <whiprush_> Gman: man, I thought you were asleep. :p
[06:31] <lamont> mdz/fabbione: what change do I need to make to the livecd script?
[06:31] <jdub> AndyFitz: controversial suggestion - wonder what f is like without a complete crossbar? :)
[06:32] <fabbione> lamont: ????
[06:32] <jdub> everything up to l is rad
[06:32] <mdz> lamont: clear out /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d I think
[06:32] <mdz> lamont: but perhaps check with mvo to be certain
[06:32] <jdub> m looks flat
[06:32] <mdz> maybe just touch a file instead
[06:32] <fabbione> ah yeah...
[06:32] <jdub> nopqr rad
[06:32] <AndyFitz> `anthony:  it seems everyone has their pet peeve glyph.   mine is X  keybuk's is Z I think  and jdubs is S.  ( janes was V ) and a mates was W
[06:32] <jdub> s seems uncurvy
[06:32] <fabbione> lamont: one sec...
[06:32] <jdub> tu rad
[06:32] <AndyFitz> jdub,  I
[06:32] <jdub> v curvy weird
[06:33] <jdub> w flat like m
[06:33] <jdub> x seems too harshly sharp
[06:33] <jdub> y rad
[06:33] <jdub> z flat/sharp
[06:33] <fabbione> lamont: ./var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/
[06:33] <`anthony> jdub: just use comic sans MS ;)
[06:33] <AndyFitz> 'll send you the svg source linework and have a quick play.   it takes a bit to turn it into a typeface  but if you can throw me some ideas back in vector it'd be alot of help
[06:33] <fabbione> as mdz said
[06:34] <lamont> wow - i386 is > 92% current
[06:34] <jdub> AndyFitz: perhaps with vxz, thinner is the way to go - the bounding box looks square compared to the rectangular bound of the other glyphs
[06:34] <AndyFitz> okay,  so X,Z,M,Wand S  all need a little ubuntu-love
[06:34] <fabbione> lamont: what about sparc?
[06:35] <lamont> fabbione: so rm -f var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/*?
[06:35] <jdub> AndyFitz: if vxz were as thin as u, that might work
[06:35] <lamont> i386 92.21% 5993 of 6499
[06:35] <lamont> powerpc 91.44% 5778 of 6319
[06:35] <lamont> amd64 90.68% 5692 of 6277
[06:35] <lamont> ia64 90.18% 5638 of 6252
[06:35] <lamont> hppa 76.81% 4795 of 6243
[06:35] <lamont> sparc 75.10% 4715 of 6278
[06:35] <AndyFitz> jdub yeah,  I think I'll try and wave the x a little in a slight curve like the V  the Z is a nightmare
[06:36] <fabbione> lamont: for what is my concern, that would do..
[06:36] <ajmitch> AndyFitz: this going to be public for us to look at?
[06:36] <jdub> if it were thin as the u, that would probably solve jane's request
[06:37] <jdub> whiprush_: man, all the boring chitter at the start of this show... yeesh ;)
[06:37] <AndyFitz> ajmitch,   its actually a bounty. I don't know what the rules are but I'm happy to make what I have public
[06:37] <lamont> mdz: now that base lacks postfix, could you have casper quit nuking it?  (that way if someone builds a derived CD with postfix, it'll actually work...)
[06:37] <lamont> or have a chance of it anyway
[06:37] <whiprush_> jdub: yeah, the production quality is pretty crap.
[06:37] <AndyFitz> jdub,  thanks for the valuable feedback.    Requires a kernel patch that I didn't get to today.  I hope to have it to Fabio by end of my day tomorrow, though.
[06:38] <AndyFitz> 10 points to whoever implemented proper text selection
[06:39] <jdub> daniels: whoa, big upgrade
[06:39] <jdub> jbailey: aha
[06:39] <jdub> jbailey: that must be why my acpi reporting is so *BONG* :-)
[06:39] <whiprush_> jdub: what the world really needs is a mjg59 radio show.
[06:39] <daniels> jdub: big upgrade?
[06:39] <whiprush_> get all of the swear words out at once.
[06:39] <jdub> daniels: xorg
[06:39] <daniels> jdub: dude, -50 was like 28 hours ago
[06:40] <Keybuk> whiprush_: we tried to persuade him to do a "Matthew's Angry Hour" at debconf last year
[06:40] <jdub> lots of goodies
[06:40] <daniels> jdub: i have bigger and cooler planned for xorg
[06:40] <jbailey> jdub: Quite probably.  initramfs-tools loads the DSDT.aml file into the right place, the kernel just doesn't look there yet.
[06:40] <Keybuk> we'd give him a microphone and poke him with sticks to make him angry
[06:40] <Keybuk> sadly mjg59 is disappointing in real life
[06:40] <jdub> jbailey: ahar.
[06:40] <daniels> jdub: like getting rid of all the shared libraries except libXfont
[06:40] <doko> good morning
[06:40] <jdub> Keybuk: not once he's inebriated.
[06:40] <daniels> Keybuk: except when he yells out 'FUCK.    I tend to get those with Mozilla
[06:59] <jdub> Keybuk: gtk bug :-)
[06:59] <mdz> Keybuk: you use mozilla (-browser)?
[06:59] <Keybuk> I got those with mozilla since before gtk even existed :)
[06:59] <Lathiat> daniels: can i do something to force it to ungrab?
[06:59] <Lathiat> short of restarting mjy xsession
[06:59] <Keybuk> mdz: where Mozilla is a generic term to describe any output from MosaicCorp/Netscape/AOL/MoFo etc.
[06:59] <mdz> Lathiat: shoot your computer
[07:00] <Lathiat> ok so it was gnome panel cus i killed it and now i have no mouse cursor at all
[07:00] <daniels> haha, awesome
[07:00] <Lathiat> oh wait it came back
[07:00] <Lathiat> yay
[07:00] <daniels> there's ctrl-shift-numpad/ or something and numpad*
[07:00] <mdz> daniels,infinity: are you guys going to need any more archive love tonight?
[07:01] <daniels> which ostensibly kill all open grabs, and kill all clients with open grabs
[07:01] <daniels> mdz: yes, when mesa finishesbuilding we'll need binary NEWs
[07:01] <Lathiat> oh cool
[07:01] <mdz> ok, I should be around for that
[07:01] <daniels> but I think those key combos have been broken since about 4.3
[07:01] <Lathiat> daniels: what, like xscreensaver? :)
[07:01] <mdz> but at some point I'll sleep
[07:01] <daniels> Lathiat: heh.  that's why it's not enabled by default, presumably.
[07:01] <Lathiat> whcih kindly kills your x session if that happens tho
[07:01] <Lathiat> i tried to kill it when i had it lock my screen on the hoary live cd
[07:01] <Lathiat> and then it went kapoof :)
[07:02] <Lathiat> should have killed its little manager at the same time
[07:02] <mdz> mako: dude, you spelled Minsky's name wrong in your blog
[07:02] <infinity> mdz : Beyond mesa (which is building right now), we should be okay on our own.
[07:03] <daniels> infinity: you sound like we're in grade 3 and you're accompanying me to the toilet or something
[07:03] <daniels> 'we're big kids now!'
[07:03] <infinity> *cough*
[07:03] <Lathiat> with training nappys
[07:03] <Keybuk> I don't think they do them in daniels's size
[07:04] <daniels> hey, I'm a small, delicate flower
[07:04] <Keybuk> in the body of someone who fell into the potion as a baby
[07:04] <infinity> And forvermore, I shall call him Obelix.  Thanks.
[07:05] <daniels> must've been all the margarine I habitually ate before I was 10
[07:05] <daniels> which is roughly when I started growing stupid tall
[07:05] <Lathiat> not by itself, right?
[07:05] <daniels> out of the tub with a spoon, yes
[07:06] <Lathiat> ew
[07:06] <daniels> yes
[07:06] <Lathiat> wtf dude that makes me sick ;p
[07:06] <AndyFitz> infinity:  brisbane is the new melbourne.  we have snobs too now
[07:06] <whiprush_> infinity: are you the network-manager dude now?
[07:07] <daniels> AndyFitz: sydney has the pretensious snobs.  we have things that are *actually* cool.
[07:07] <daniels> AndyFitz: brisbane just aspire to be pretensious.
[07:07] <infinity> whiprush_ : Yes, but if you have high hopes for it making it to breezy, I'd place your faith elsewhere.  The more I look at it (and the further we get past feature freeze), the more it looks like it's just too immature to get it happy.
[07:07] <daniels> network-manager wants a pony
[07:07] <whiprush_> :-/
[07:07] <infinity> whiprush_ : But I'm all for help on improving it in universe with an eye to actually having something useful for breezy+1.
[07:08] <whiprush_> it was working pretty well most of the cycle.
[07:08] <infinity> For some value of "working well" that doesn't really mesh with my idea of "should be on every desktop"...
[07:08] <whiprush_> question:
[07:08] <AndyFitz> daniels.  we have the resindogs.  and sydney has the avalanches.  melb has the cat empire.. ( I think )  that says a bit
[07:09] <daniels> AndyFitz: um, dude.  we have tzu, bias b, muphin (and plutonic lab also), j-red, selekt, dexta (dj from the avalanches) is from melbourne ...
[07:09] <whiprush_> if you don't think it'll make it, moving it out to universe would mean more leeway as far as updating it right?
[07:09] <AndyFitz> daniels: bam
[07:09] <bob2> dext*er*
[07:09] <bob2> who is coming here soon
[07:10] <bob2> and brisbane has the resin dogs, > avalanches (who broke up)
[07:10] <infinity> whiprush_ : It's in universe already.
[07:10] <Mithrandir> 'morning
[07:10] <whiprush_> oh, thought it had moved to main.
[07:10] <infinity> whiprush_ : And yes, I'm sure we'd rather have something that works in universe than something that doesn't.
[07:10] <daniels> bob2: dext*a*.
[07:10] <AndyFitz> bob2  arent the avalanches releasing a new albumb ?
[07:10] <Keybuk> one thing always worried me about network-manager
[07:10] <Keybuk> it seems to spend all of its time bringing interfaces up and down
[07:10] <infinity> whiprush_ : I've had some feedback from a few people, will update to the latest CVS, and have some integration changes to make, but even with all of those, I've run into some "gotchas" that I think make it just not ready for primetime in ubuntu-desktop.
[07:10] <Keybuk> when it could just leave them up and change the default route a bit
[07:11] <whiprush_> infinity: I've been playing with it for like 4 months, didn't know you had taken maintainership of it.
[07:11] <Keybuk> whiprush_: he touched it last
[07:11] <whiprush_> I'll pull from cvs tomorrow and do stuff.
[07:11] <whiprush_> oh
[07:11] <daniels> bob2: unless he's changed his name from what it used to be.  and his brother is kuya.  one year, dexta was the defending champion from .au (2000? 2001?), and came up against kuya in the nationals, because kuya won victoria.
[07:11] <infinity> Keybuk : Actually, it was thrown at me, and I can't seem to wipe it off.
[07:12] <whiprush_> heh
[07:12] <infinity> mdz : mesa should be ready for binary NEW.
[07:12] <AndyFitz> daniels,   I saw dexta do a set at last splendour in the grass.  the man has skillz that kills
[07:12] <daniels> but tzu/bias b/muphin (with or without plutonic)/pegz/matty b/lyrical commission/etc > resins
[07:14] <whiprush_> infinity: all I can offer is some testing and a bottle of liquor at the next ubuntu conference, heh.
[07:14] <bob2> daniels: google says 4960 vs 587, to the charming young man fron the capital
[07:15] <infinity> whiprush_ : Testing is much appreciated.  Code would also be handy. :)
[07:15] <whiprush_> heh, now you ask the impossible!
[07:15] <whiprush_> for me anyway. :p
[07:15] <infinity> whiprush_ : Catch me when I get back, if you're still around, so I can pick your brain about the current state of affairs.
[07:15] <daniels> bob2: hm?
[07:15] <whiprush_> okey
[07:15] <daniels> bob2: and they're all better than koolism also
[07:15] <bob2> daniels: dj.dexta vs dj.dexter hits
[07:16] <bob2> daniels: dexter does not appear to give shouts out to spencer street station
[07:16] <mdz> infinity: done
[07:16] <infinity> mdz : Danke.
[07:17] <daniels> bob2: that's because we can just say melbourne and everyone knows we rock, rather than having to namecheck libraries and art galleries etc
[07:18] <Keybuk> right -> bed
[07:20] <\sh> morning
[07:20] <\sh> who is responsible for the bts importer to bugzilla?
[07:22] <daniels> i swear autoconf is just taunting me at this point
[07:22] <daniels> \sh: mdz
[07:23] <\sh> eeks
[07:25] <robitaille> \sh: yeah, mdz turned it on again a few hours ago; I think the importer had been off for quite a while...
[07:26] <\sh> bad bad bad
[07:26] <\sh> many dupes of already resolved and fixed bugs
[07:28] <\sh> ok...will try to mark them as that
[07:28] <robitaille> it's too bad our weekly bug day was yesterday :)
[07:29] <\sh> anyways...it's not good to have old bugs reopened by debian bts again
[07:31] <\sh> ok..have to go to work first...then the rest :)
[07:31] <\sh> later dudes
[07:40] <sivang> morning all
[07:41] <jdub> daniels: QUESTACON!
[07:42] <desrt> the laptop team template is really good
[07:42] <jdub> elmo: planet update please :-)
[07:42] <daniels> jdub: questacon is crap.  their only draw is still that 'run against cathy freeman' thing.
[07:42] <desrt> i have problems with my laptop that i didn't even realise!
[07:43] <`anthony> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/16/solaris_x86_not_too_shabby/print.html <-- "Solaris 10 will kill Linux. Oh, except that the installer sucks, and there's no device support". /me headslaps.
[07:43] <AndyFitz> jdub,  update emailed
[07:43] <bob2> daniels: um, and an earthquake machine.  and a lightning machine.  how many enclosed natural disasters does melbourne have?
[07:44] <bob2> `anthony: hm, thursday is a "sun doesn't like linux day"?
[07:44] <`anthony> bob2: less since we voted out kennett.
[07:45] <AndyFitz> hahahaha
[07:45] <`anthony> bob2: as opposed to the rest of the week, which is "Sun makes cheap shots at Redhat" days. You'll know Ubuntu has made it when Schwartz starts slagging it.
[07:45] <AndyFitz> I went to the observation deck on melbourne and pointed to the entertainment centre and asked the guy what it was.  and  he said   "oh,  thats just jeff's shed"
[07:45] <bob2> `anthony: wednesday is "Solaris is our version of Linux" day, iirc
[07:45] <sivang> `anthony: just ignore the press, there's someone in .IL (a "known" technology reporter) that still claims that linux is not ready for the embedded market
[07:46] <daniels> bob2: none.  because no-one wants to destroy it, unlike sydney (where your house gets destroyed every year).
[07:46] <AndyFitz> kennett was a bit wacky hey ?
[07:46] <jsgotangco> lol
[07:46] <daniels> 'There is no /root directory, which means that all of root's stuff piles up in /, which is hardly a major problem, but perhaps not the best thing for organization.'
[07:46] <daniels> AndyFitz: more sensible than Joh
[07:46] <HrdwrBoB> daniels: we have REAL natural disasters
[07:46] <HrdwrBoB> er bob2
[07:47] <`anthony> AndyFitz: I think it was Rod Quantock who pointed out that most of Kennett's building projects featured things sticking up at 45 degree angles, around the same angle as the nazi salute.
[07:47] <daniels> HrdwrBoB: only the odd flash-flood
[07:47] <AndyFitz> hahahaha
[07:47] <HrdwrBoB> two in the past year and a half
[07:48] <daniels> HrdwrBoB: yes, but no-one likes fairfield anyway.  full of stinky hippies.
[07:49] <AndyFitz> it seems australian politics has consumed #ubuntu-devel  .   I can imagine that being frustrating to other locales
[07:49] <HrdwrBoB> they might get an inferiority complex
[07:50] <`anthony> So, to recap: device driver support is suck, installer is suck, management interface is suck, available software in packages is suck, no online automated security patching without paying $, but Solaris is a threat to Linux. Riiiight.
[07:51] <HrdwrBoB> it's ok the reviewer can't find the 'hide messages when deleted' button
[07:51] <HrdwrBoB> in evolution
[07:51] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: stupid default, dude.
[07:51] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[07:51] <HrdwrBoB> I totally agree
[07:51] <jdub> and totally stupid functionality in the first place
[07:52] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/Ubuntu-Title.ttf  - let it be known that I don't like the M or W
[07:52] <`anthony> jdub: _obviously_ the solution is spatial deletion, where when you delete something, it moves to a different area of the screen.
[07:53] <jdub> AndyFitz: aha, X is on the money
[07:53] <jdub> Z is on the money
[07:54] <AndyFitz> and S ???
[07:54] <jdub> M/W... hrm... dunno
[07:54] <HrdwrBoB> M/W is too .. bendy
[07:54] <AndyFitz> m / w has gotten worse than the block looking ones
[07:54] <daniels> HrdwrBoB: ... dude.
[07:54] <jsgotangco> wow..its soo ubuntu...
[07:54] <jdub> V is much closer, though would love to see non-curvy one of similar width
[07:54] <AndyFitz> to keep it close to the N we need kill the curves again
[07:55] <jdub> S is *really* close
[07:55] <jsgotangco> n doesn't look like n at all
[07:55] <jsgotangco> but i see the pattern on r
[07:56] <jdub> AndyFitz: how about not having a strong centre stroke on the M/W?
[07:56] <jdub> so much more like the n, but just a dip, not a complete stroke
[07:57] <AndyFitz> jdub,  yeah I'll go back to the old way and cut the center stroke bit in half
[07:57] <AndyFitz> I tried with the dip and it looks weird ..  like a mutated U
[07:57] <AndyFitz> but half is a nice balance
[07:57] <jdub> one thing with the k, the top stroke seems to be coming out of the bottom stroke
[07:57] <AndyFitz> so it dies on the same line the X crosses
[07:57] <jdub> would be good to have both joining at the same point
[07:58] <AndyFitz> jdub,  yes its a lowercase K  this is a typographical technique.  the weight is too heavy with both stroked coming from the balancing line
[07:59] <AndyFitz> that was the way I had it in the firstplace but it has since been modified due to it not fitting in with the rest of the set
[08:00] <AndyFitz> it suits hard edges sans fonts . but not gothic-sans fonts ( and this ultimately is a fat gothic sans typeface )
[08:00] <jdub> generally both meet at the same point but not in the upright
[08:00] <jdub> |<
[08:00] <jdub> ^ like that :-)
[08:00] <jdub> only closer...
[08:00] <jdub> ;)
[08:01] <AndyFitz> can't be done and made to look sexy .
[08:02] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/ok.png
[08:02] <AndyFitz> nono
[08:02] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/K.png
[08:02] <AndyFitz> damn gaim autoreplace
[08:02] <jdub> well, if nothing else, the bottom one should hang from the top one
[08:04] <AndyFitz> refresh http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/K.png
[08:04] <AndyFitz> hrm.,  I'm picking up what you're putting down
[08:05] <AndyFitz> :)
[08:05] <pitti> Good morning
[08:05] <ajmitch> hi pitti
[08:05] <AndyFitz> g'day pitti
[08:06] <jdub> AndyFitz: hey, you're joining within the upright
[08:06] <AndyFitz> jdub:  does the most left  K  suit ?
[08:06] <jdub> and the first k looks better than the second :-)
[08:06] <jdub> yes, vastly better :-)
[08:06] <AndyFitz> agreed
[08:06] <jdub> that k
[08:06] <jdub> all by itself
[08:06] <jdub> will make kubuntu suck less
[08:06] <AndyFitz> haha
[08:07] <jdub> that k has offended me for too long
[08:07] <AndyFitz> spoken like a devout gnome user
[08:07] <jdub> more the typography fascist in me, than the gnome contributor
[08:08] <jdub> hey, now the a is looking weird
[08:08] <AndyFitz> huh ?
[08:08] <AndyFitz> it always looked like that
[08:08] <jdub> yeah
[08:08] <jdub> but as the other characters improve
[08:08] <AndyFitz> the A has been a hassle for me
[08:09] <jsgotangco> the g looks pretty toned down to me
[08:09] <AndyFitz> its hard to make it not look like an o
[08:09] <jdub> how about going for an old-fashioned style a?
[08:09] <AndyFitz> I thought about it but that would break the consistency on all the other curves
[08:10] <AndyFitz> its possible . but would look squishy at that character height
[08:10] <AndyFitz> esp with the thick lines
[08:12] <pitti> jdub: does your battery applet work now with the new hal?
[08:13] <jdub> pitti: you'll see some bug mess in your mail :-)
[08:13] <jdub> AndyFitz: like the s
[08:13] <pitti> jdub: ok, I didn't yet come that far in my mailbox...
[08:13] <AndyFitz> jdub I'llshow you a screenie of it like that
[08:15] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/a.png
[08:16] <AndyFitz> not too sexy
[08:16] <jdub> hmm
[08:16] <jdub> appeals to me
[08:16] <jdub> dunno
[08:17] <jsgotangco> it does not feel right to me
[08:17] <jsgotangco> like a "bizarro" feel
[08:17] <jdub> AndyFitz: maybe the normal one would benefit from being slightly wider?
[08:17] <jdub> hrrm.
[08:17] <jdub> no, that's rough
[08:21] <AndyFitz> oops kernel panicked
[08:22] <fabbione> AndyFitz: time to buy better hw
[08:25] <AndyFitz> fabbione,   my lappy is still the highest spec machine dell sell
[08:26] <daniels> s/spec/weight/
[08:26] <AndyFitz> panics just happen
[08:26] <daniels> AndyFitz: none of this invalidates what fabbione said
[08:26] <`anthony> daniels: No, that's my 5150.
[08:26] <daniels> `anthony: andy's gives it a run for its money, certainly
[08:26] <daniels> `anthony: it's insane
[08:27] <`anthony> this sucker's something like 5.5kgs with the powersupply.
[08:27] <AndyFitz> hence I can't buy better hw  because I can no longer afford it lol
[08:27] <`anthony> power supply is a monster.
[08:27] <bob2> you just need an equally big hip flask to wear on the other side while carrying it
[08:28] <Mithrandir> I bet it's unusable to hit people with
[08:29] <AndyFitz> jdub: did you see the issue with the 'a'
[08:31] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/badges.jpg  - valley market humour
[08:41] <AndyFitz> jdub:  http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/Ubuntu-Title.ttf  updated
[08:42] <highvoltage> AndyFitz: is that a free font?
[08:42] <AndyFitz> highvoltage:  it will be released under GPL
[08:43] <AndyFitz> its not released yet
[08:44] <highvoltage> ok
[08:45] <AndyFitz> just updated with a dash on the 1   so you can tell it apart from the l    however its not a font for numbers symbols etc so this shouldnt matter
[08:45] <AndyFitz> with a serif  mean
[08:45] <lucas> hi
[08:46] <AndyFitz> hi lucas
[08:46] <lucas> I'm seeking confirmation for a bug about locales in X before I submit it. The bug report I intend to submit is on http://blop.info/ubuntubug.txt
[08:47] <lucas> can sbody look at it and confirm the issue ?
[08:48] <daniels> non-utf-8 locales may well be broken, yes.  is there any reason why you're not using utf-8?
[08:51] <lucas> well, is there a good guide about utf-8 migration, dealing with using [G] VIM and vim in ssh sessions on non-UTF8 systems ?
[08:52] <lucas> each time I try migrating, I end up facing issues I don't really understand
[08:52] <Mithrandir> lucas: luit fixes the latter, at least.
[08:55] <lucas> cool, thanks
[08:55] <jdub> AndyFitz: btw, GPL is not a good choice
[08:55] <lucas> daniels: for the record, I should report this bug anyway. which is the correct package ?
[08:55] <jdub> fonts are regarded as computer programs in most jurisdictions
[08:56] <daniels> lucas: libx11-6
[08:56] <jdub> AndyFitz: hrm, i don't have any more ideas for M/W
[08:59] <pitti> Hey mvo
[09:00] <AndyFitz> jdub,  GPL is a good choice in my opinion.  but I'm open to suggestions
[09:01] <AndyFitz> creative commons wouldnt suit I don't think.  esp since this will be canonical's not mine so attribution would get confusing
[09:01] <jdub> AndyFitz: so, consider the legal POV on using this font in, say, acrobat reader.
[09:01] <mvo> hey pitti
[09:01] <infinity> 3-clause BSD, MIT, or LGPL would all be better choices for something as widely-used as a font, IMO.
[09:02] <bob2> MIT/x11 4 lyf
[09:02] <AndyFitz> I have no problem with LGPL if thats cool with the rest of canonical
[09:03] <lucas> arg luit isn't in Ubuntu anymore :/
[09:05] <jdub> an MPL derived license might be a good choice
[09:05] <jdub> hrm, hmm.
[09:06] <AndyFitz> sabdfl agreed to gpl so I ran with that but anything is good so long as its free enough to be distributed freely
[09:07] <AndyFitz> time for this geek to skate back to the bat cave.
[09:08] <AndyFitz> jdub,  thanks alot for you help.  I appreciate it.  ciao
[09:31] <daniels> mdz: please update the seeds to have libgl1-mesa and libgl1-mesa-dri instead of xlibmesa-gl/libgl1-xorg and xlibmesa-dri/libgl1-xorg-dri
[09:31] <jdub> hmm
[09:32] <daniels> elmo: please remove libgl1-xorg* from the archive
[09:33] <jdub> yo chmj
[09:33] <mvo> daniels: will we get r300 dri support :) ?
[09:34] <daniels> mvo: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/2005-August/009480.html
[09:34] <daniels> mvo: that's possibly slightly misleading as we need ddx and drm updates yet, but close enough
[09:34] <chmj> hey jdub
[09:34] <daniels> mvo: ddx is coming, i guess drm is close too
[09:36] <mvo> daniels: that's great news!
[09:36] <seb128> hi
[09:37] <pitti_> Hi seb128
[09:37] <seb128> what is great news?
[09:37] <mvo> morning seb128
[09:37] <seb128> hey pitti mvo :)
[09:38] <mvo> seb128: we are getting dri support for r300 based cards
[09:38] <seb128> oh, cool
[09:39] <daniels> yeah
[09:39] <daniels> only agp though
[09:39] <daniels> no-one's written pcie gart stuff for the drm though
[09:41] <daniels> mdz: (nevermind)
[09:48] <Mithrandir> daniels: does that mean "pcie cards won't work" or "pcie won't be accellerated"?
[09:48] <daniels> the latter
[09:48] <daniels> you don't get DRI, or good Xv
[09:48] <daniels> (since good Xv requires you to be able to DMA to the card)
[09:48] <seb128> elmo: around?
[09:50] <\sh> gentlemen...u want to listen to a secret at my company?
[09:50] <\sh> we replaced all of our sun dns machines to hp/compaq dl380 ones with hoary on it...
[09:50] <infinity> Well, it won't be very secret if you disclose it in a publically logged channel.
[09:51] <daniels> the only thing better than a dl380 is a dl385
[09:51] <\sh> hehe..i don't mention the name of the company
[09:51] <`anthony> daniels: is it worth logging a bug about fullscreen Xv support using the nv driver producing corrupted video? or will upstream just not care?
[09:51] <Treenaks> \sh: congrats :)
[09:51] <infinity> servereyes.de?
[09:51] <\sh> infinity: no...
[09:51] <daniels> if that's what passes for a secret at your company, you need to work somewhere more exciting
[09:51] <daniels> unless it's novell or red hat or something (or sun) which makes it interesting
[09:51] <\sh> infinity: the company which is paying me, and payed ogra before he started to work for canonical :)
[09:52] <\sh> daniels: i worked for redhat ,-)
[09:52] <daniels> `anthony: yeah, sure, but worth trying the nv driver from head first.  if I'm feeling particularly useful, I'll even merge in Exa support to nv first, so you can have a shiny fast desktop.
[09:52] <\sh> infinity: i will talk to our PR guys...to have a real announcement for ubuntu :)
[09:53] <mvo> daniels: is it worth to report a file conflict between libgl1-mesa-dev and x11proto-gl-dev? (/usr/include/GL/glx.h)
[09:53] <daniels> (if the gods smile upon me, breezy will ship with exa as the default for nv and radeon.)
[09:53] <daniels> mvo: no, because I've already fixed it, but I just forgot to upload x11proto-gl
[09:54] <mvo> daniels: ok, thanks
[09:54] <\sh> daniels: this won't happen...cause god is coming to cologne and his partner landed a couple of minutes ago in cologne/bonn airport
[09:54] <\sh> s/in/at/
[09:54] <daniels> mvo: fix uploaded
[09:55] <daniels> (oh yeah, and maybe for sis too, but no-one cares about sis aside from twini.)
[09:55] <seb128> daniels: the video card on the box that get 640x480 with hoary liveCD is an "intel 82865G"
[09:55] <mvo> daniels: heh, that was fast!
[09:55] <daniels> seb128: yeah, known issue.  the only bug with more dupes was the 'x is broken in ten ways' one from the start of breezy.
[09:55] <daniels> mvo: well, I'd already fixed it a couple of days ago before I did mesa, just forgot to upload.
[09:55] <`anthony> daniels: Exa support?
[09:56] <daniels> seb128: it has slightly more dupes than 'nvidia bites', I think
[09:56] <daniels> s/nvidia/&-glx/
[09:56] <daniels> `anthony: shiny new acceleration architecture to replace our crappy old one.  largely cribbed from kaa in kdrive, so it makes composite accelerated and usable, and does xrender very well (its use cases during development were render and composite).
[09:57] <seb128> daniels: hum, k. Going to be fixed for 5.10 ?
[09:57] <daniels> `anthony: and the main exa ninja reverse-engineered large swathes of most of the nvidia chipsets one day out of sheer frustration, so nv has working exa support, including dma for uploading and downloading data. :)
[09:57] <daniels> seb128: it was fixed in the first upload after hoary
[09:57] <seb128> gra, ok ok
[09:57] <`anthony> daniels: K. Is this going to be something (the HEAD nv driver) that I can install on a hoary box without massive massive pain? I'm completely uninterested in running breezy on it, cos it's my main work machine.
[09:57] <daniels> seb128: i don't have any intel desktop kit, and I didn't get a single useful log or anything until after it was too late
[09:58] <daniels> seb128: just 'oh my god how broken'
[09:58] <daniels> `anthony: ha ha.
[09:58] <`anthony> daniels: That's what I figured.
[09:58] <daniels> `anthony: it changes the server core as well as the drivers, so no
[09:58] <`anthony> I'd think about running breezy, but I'm too attached to having a working X server.
[09:58] <\sh> `anthony: the x server is working
[09:59] <`anthony> \sh: today ;)
[09:59] <infinity> It's been fine for weeks.
[09:59] <`anthony> I will wait a week or so, and grab a livecd to test with that.
[10:00] <\sh> `anthony: it's running for weeks now...
[10:01] <\sh> oh sorry...i didn't want to repeat infinity
[10:01] <doko> pitti: the dutch thing ... please don't upload, waiting for elmo to sync ...
[10:01] <Mithrandir> repeat infinity can take a long time, I guess.
[10:01] <pitti> doko: no, I won't
[10:01] <\sh> Mithrandir: hmmmm...Freud?
[10:02] <\sh> I think so
[10:04] <seb128> pitti: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13678 is either for you or to close (we have 2.3.7 as current package, not sure if you fixed warty/hoary)
[10:05] <pitti> seb128: ah, you also wade through the huge bug list imported from Debian?
[10:05] <pitti> seb128: yes, I fixed that in a recent USN
[10:05] <seb128> pitti: yet, like I had no enough bugs waiting for me, they decided to make a new wave :)
[10:06] <pitti> closed
[10:06] <seb128> thanks
[10:07] <daniels> seb128: do you want more bugs?
[10:07] <daniels> seb128: now X is split, I can happily hand off all the shitty little client-side libraries to you :P
[10:08] <seb128> daniels: no thanks ;)
[10:09] <pitti> bah, why don't we have jigdo files for the current images?
[10:10] <daniels> seb128: it'll be great.  you'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll drink yourself to an early death.
[10:10] <daniels> seb128: well, you won't really laugh, but close enough.
[10:10] <seb128> I've already my fun with GNOME
[10:10] <seb128> but you can try giving that to pitti by example :)
[10:12] <daniels> seb128: think of how awesome it will be
[10:12] <daniels> seb128: i'll never tell you that something's a gtk bug again
[10:12] <daniels> seb128: it doesn't matter whether it's in gtk, libxrender, or libx11, because it'll always be your fault!
[10:12] <daniels> seb128: it'll make life much easier
[10:13] <infinity> I fully support this initiative.
[10:13] <seb128> hum, thanks
[10:13] <seb128> because of you I kind of like my gtk bugs now :p
[10:13] <daniels> 'i am interested in your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.'
[10:15] <tepsipakki> daniels: about #13362 (again)... will this exa make my life easier?-)
[10:17] <Mithrandir> doko: 13660, does that affect us?
[10:18] <doko> yes and no, we either need to install the correct x86_64 headers from glibc, or update amd64-libs to glibc-2.3.5. that's a jbailey thing at the moment
[10:19] <daniels> tepsipakki: umm ... not at all.  the nv exa acceleration only accelerates 2d ops, no 3d.
[10:19] <tepsipakki> daniels: ok
[10:19] <Mithrandir> doko: ok, so I'll bump it to jbailey.
[10:19] <ogra> morning
[10:19] <doko> please do
[10:20] <tepsipakki> daniels: I know how to get around the preseeding stuff, touch nvidia_drv.o before xserver-xorg configures
[10:20] <tepsipakki> but if the config-script hasn't changed much after hoary it should still work
[10:21] <tepsipakki> without that trickery
[10:26] <Jimbob> daniels (or anyone): What's the diff between libgl1-xorg and libgl1-mesa in breezy?
[10:41] <infinity> Jimbob : The first is going away tonight, that's the difference.  Give me time to upload and rebuild everything. :)
[10:42] <Jimbob> ahh
[10:44] <daniels> tepsipakki: i'm surprised that preseeding nvidia worked at all in hoary.  istr the logic being roughly the same.
[10:46] <tepsipakki> well, if nvidia-glx has been unpacked, shouldn't xserver-xorg.config then notice the driver in /usr.../modules?
[10:46] <lucas> daniels: any workarounds for my non-UTF-8 locales bug ? I tried for an hour, but life in UTF-8 sucks for me.
[10:47] <daniels> lucas: no idea, sorry.  i'm swamped looking at other stuff.
[10:47] <lucas> ok :/
[10:55] <daniels> seb128: ... evince uses dbus?
[10:55] <seb128> daniels: correct
[10:55] <Lathiat> daniels: isnt it the factory stuff? (bonobo styles?)
[10:55] <daniels> seb128: what on earth for?
[10:56] <seb128> daniels: to be commanded by dbus
[10:57] <daniels> seb128: ow, my head.
[10:57] <tepsipakki> the new evince rocks.. it finally has proper text-selection
[11:02] <infinity> seb128 : What sort of use case is there for externally driving a document reader?
[11:03] <daniels> i mean, i'm the biggest dbus cheerleader evar (ask jdub), but even I think this is a little bit insane
[11:03] <daniels> just like I think one module for every tiny little script and sample app that xorg ships is slightly insane
[11:05] <seb128> infinity: automated testing
[11:05] <seb128> the wiki page mention " Backend sandboxing; like [WWW] Colin Walters imsep idea, run the rendering backend in an SELinux jail over DBus... call it D-Evince."
[11:06] <daniels> how about just writing a backend that isn't hideously insecure?
[11:06] <daniels> alos, d-evince totally has to use dconf
[11:06] <seb128> ha ha
[11:06] <seb128> good one
[11:06] <Nafallo> morning all :-)
[11:06] <daniels> seb128: you think i'm joking
[11:06] <seb128> this dconf stuff is a joke
[11:06] <daniels> seb128: i'll make that official fd.o policy.  any d* project has to use dconf.  including d-bus.
[11:07] <seb128> would be funny :)
[11:07] <daniels> including dak
[11:07] <daniels> dak will have to use dconf as well
[11:08] <seb128> let's move dpkg on freedesktop and make it use dconf too :)
[11:09] <daniels> totally
[11:09] <daniels> it can't possibly get any worse than it is now :P
[11:12] <tepsipakki> is there any hope of gconf getting a ldap-backend by 6.04?-)
[11:12] <daniels> tepsipakki: DECONF!
[11:12] <daniels> DCONF, even
[11:13] <tepsipakki> heh
[11:13] <daniels> seb128: you'd better watch your back, or I'm going to write a DconfSpec, SebastienBacherLead
[11:13] <daniels> seb128: BreezyGoal
[11:13] <Nafallo> FeautureFreeze ;-)
[11:13] <Nafallo> Breezy+1
[11:13] <seb128> daniels: speaking aobut spec you should better get the xine one moving :)
[11:14] <daniels> dconf is too important to wait
[11:14] <daniels> seb128: can't do it this week
[11:14] <azeem> I thought dconf was just a step on the way to econf, as that clearly has the sexier letter in front of it
[11:15] <daniels> econf will be FULLY GL-RENDERED
[11:15] <daniels> and also never released, and crash all the time
[11:15] <daniels> and all your settings will come out typoed
[11:15] <Treenaks> daniels: ah, you've spoken to rasterman?
[11:15] <Lathiat> i thought gconf had an ldap backend
[11:16] <Lathiat> or is it non operational?
[11:16] <tepsipakki> not applied
[11:16] <tepsipakki> it should exist thouhg
[11:16] <daniels> and stacked benchmarks of econf will come out which clearly show econf's best case it has been hand-tweaked for against gconf's worst case ever, a case that no-one uses, and then people will run around saying OMG NOT PERFORMANT WTF
[11:16] <daniels> not that I'm bitter
[11:17] <Lathiat> you just want a pony?
[11:18] <daniels> i want several ponies
[11:18] <tepsipakki> for me one of the worst "features" of GNOME/KDE is that two sessions on different machines is not supported
[11:18] <Lathiat> now now don't get greedy
[11:20] <\sh> hmmm...colony 3...I should manually partition my harddrive...but there is no way to do it ,-)
[11:23] <ogra_> seb128: do you know if your student also made sure that the update-nootifier doesnt get run for non privileged users ? i think thats an essential thing ...
[11:24] <ogra_> (just struck me)
[11:24] <mvo> ogra_++
[11:25] <seb128> what has that to do with my student?
[11:25] <seb128> update-notifier is mvo's
[11:25] <ogra_> seb128: i think he works on  a distinction mechanism fro privileged/unprivileged users
[11:26] <seb128> that's not app specific
[11:26] <seb128> up to mvo to use X-Ubuntu-RootRequired=yes for his .desktop
[11:26] <ogra_> no, but if all gksudo stuff gets supressed, update-notifier should too
[11:26] <seb128> all desktop files using X-Ubuntu-RootRequired=yes are masked
[11:26] <ogra_> hmm, ut its more then a .desktop file in this case
[11:27] <seb128> that's up to the package to use it
[11:28] <mvo> seb128: could you please ask him to send me a quick overview what method he uses to figure if the user is a sudoer?
[11:30] <ogra> which will be difficult for trayicons....
[11:30] <seb128> mvo: atm it looks if you are on the "adm" group
[11:30] <seb128> ups
[11:30] <seb128> admin
[11:30] <mvo> seb128: good enough for ubuntu I suspect
[11:30] <seb128> yeah, good enough while we sort the "sudo -l" stuff
[11:31] <seb128> I've to restart to be sure the new orbit package doesn't screw anything, brb
[11:37] <pitti> cu later
[11:43] <mayco> I've downloaded and tried the colony 3 live cd on my dell inspiron 6000 laptop, but when it gets into X, i get a blank screen. Whan can I do to help make the dell inspiron 6000 work out of the box?
[11:47] <seb128> siretart: around?
[11:47] <seb128> elmo: ping?
[11:55] <Lathiat> daniels: sooo...
[11:55] <Lathiat> daniels: libgl1-mesa-dev now?
[11:55] <daniels> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of libxf1bpp.so not recognized
[11:55] <daniels> debian/xserver-xorg-core/usr/lib/xorg/modules/libxf1bpp.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped
[11:55] <daniels> what's not to recognise?
[11:56] <daniels> Lathiat: libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev
[11:56] <Lathiat> and libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev ?
[11:56] <daniels> yeah
[11:56] <Lathiat> well, at least its consistent now.
[12:03] <daniels> gar, why is dpkg-shlibdeps so hideously broken
[12:03] <infinity> Lathiat : They're mostly being fixed by me right now anyway.
[12:03] <Mithrandir> is mozilla (suite) unstable on ppc?
[12:04] <Mithrandir> daniels: it tries to parse the name, and it doesn't understand that you can have unversioned shared objects.
[12:06] <daniels> Mithrandir: no, it does
[12:06] <daniels>             if (m,^\s*NEEDED\s+((\S+)\.so\.(\S+))$,) {
[12:07] <daniels>             } elsif (m,^\s*NEEDED\s+((\S+)-(\S+)\.so)$,) {
[12:07] <daniels> utterly, utterly broken
[12:23] <daniels> elmo: could you please promote everything built from mesa to main?
[12:24] <infinity> elmo : It's reasonably urgent. :/  (Half the world is FTBFS until mesa-common-dev moves to main)
[12:28] <infinity> elmo : "it" being daniels's request to move the mesa binaries to main.
[12:30] <Mithrandir> go kino, ==3230==    definitely lost: 1893257 bytes in 38 blocks.
[12:31] <seb128__> elmo: we also need to sync cairo, and the new pango 2.10 from experimental with it ... and libcairo2 (soname change) needs to go to main or the other half of the world will FTBFS too since it will break anything using GTK
[12:35] <Lathiat> infinity: are your doing mass gl dep changes?
[12:36] <infinity> Lathiat : yes, but I can't finish main until elmo fixes the archive.  I'll do as much universe as I can do, though (ie: the packages that don't depend on main being changed first)
[12:36] <Lathiat> righto
[12:37] <Lathiat> i need to get approved as a motu so i can do these sorts of things that are such a waste of time doing debdiffs for :)
[12:37] <infinity> Takes longer to look at a debdiff and fix it than it does to just do it myself.
[12:37] <Lathiat> exactly
[12:38] <infinity> And in this case, I promised to fix what daniels and I broke (intentionally), so it's in my lap anyway. :)
[12:38] <Lathiat> does give me more to base my case for becoming a motu tho :)
[12:38] <seb128> infinity: are you going to upload a lot of GTK dependend stuff?
[12:38] <Lathiat> whats wrong with archive?
[12:40] <infinity> seb128 : GTK, QT, libforms, you name it.  GL/GLU support is toolkit agnostic, baby.
[12:40] <infinity> seb128 : Wehy do you ask?  Do we need a mass rebuild for the cairo bump as well
[12:40] <infinity> ?
[12:40] <seb128> infinity: exactly, cairo soname change is planned for today
[12:41] <seb128> as soon as elmo is around ...
[12:41] <seb128> so better to rebuild stuff once
[12:41] <infinity> seb128 : Heh.  Elmo is mine first, damnit.
[12:41] <seb128> :)
[12:41] <infinity> seb128 : I don't much care how many times things get rebuilt.  We have the CPU power. :)
[12:41] <seb128> k
[12:41] <infinity> seb128 : But in the name of elegance, I'll agree with you.  It also sucks if our uploads collide.
[12:42] <seb128> right, so we just have to find elmo now ;)
[12:42] <Lathiat> in general gtk/gl stuff doesnt cross *that* much
[12:42] <infinity> seb128 : How about you just promise not to touch anything with a dep/build-dep on libgl/libglu/freeglut/libglut until after I've touched it?
[12:42] <infinity> :)
[12:42] <seb128> infinity: I've an another solution, what about you doing both transition so we don't conflict? :)
[12:42] <infinity> (Add *mesae* to that list)
[12:43] <infinity> Yeah, Icould do that too. :)
[12:43] <seb128> do you have a rebuild-o-matic for transition?
[12:43] <seb128> hum, I should have a look on what doko pointed the other day
[12:43] <infinity> Oh, libcairo1 only has 236 rdepends.  That's not so bad...
[12:44] <infinity> seb128 : You could just upload them all right now.
[12:45] <infinity> Bump your libcairo build-deps, version your library build-deps to be tight enough, watch them all enter dep-wait, then wait for elmo to do the sync.
[12:45] <seb128> making them Build-Depends on the new gtk so they will dep-wait?
[12:45] <seb128> k
[12:46] <infinity> When all 236 start building, it's like a lottery to see which ones FTBFS! :)
[12:46] <infinity> (It's also a reasonably sane way to do it anyway, as tight build-deps mean stuff is actually rebuildable... Ish)
[12:46] <seb128> yeah, expecting than you don't win at lottery :p
[12:48] <infinity> seb128 : Advantage of you slamming all those uploads up as quickly as you can is that I can grab your ACCEPTED sources and do my changes, no harm done.
[12:48] <Nafallo> jdub: btw, you got my planet-mail some month ago or so? :-)
[12:48] <seb128> infinity: yeah, I'll start doing that just after lunch
[12:49] <infinity> Lunch, schmunch.
[12:49] <doko> seb128: send me a list of source packages, thenI can do that as well
[12:50] <seb128> doko: is there a way to make a list of the sources packages from the binary packages?
[12:52] <Lathiat> infinity: when you do poker3d, it needs libxml2-python2.4 -> python2.4-libxml2 build-dep change too
[12:52] <infinity> Lathiat : I'm sure I would have found that out the hard way. :)
[12:53] <Lathiat> heh just saying i was goign through my list of pending patches for someone to look at :)
[12:53] <infinity> seb128 : Does it have to be pretty?
[12:53] <infinity> for i in `apt-cache rdepends libcairo1 | grep '^ '`; do apt-cache showsrc $i; done |grep ^Package | awk '{print $2}' | sort -u
[12:53] <infinity> Cause that's pretty ugly. :)
[12:54] <doko> yes, something like that ...
[12:55] <guillem> Tell me if this is not the right channel: I've seen poor performance at USB-sticks and DVD-RAM when using filesystems other than reiserfs (and perhaps vfat) mounted with the sync option.
[12:55] <seb128> infinity: that should do the trick, thanks.
[12:56] <guillem> That problem did not happen at my RH7.3 box (no DVD-RAM there, so only USB-stick checked)
[01:03] <mvo> seb128: a pretty version: import apt, sys
[01:03] <mvo> c = apt.Cache()
[01:03] <mvo> p = c[sys.argv[1] ]
[01:03] <mvo> for rdep in p._pkg.RevDependsList:
[01:03] <mvo>         print c[rdep.ParentPkg.Name] .sourcePackageName
[01:04] <seb128> mvo: do you have a version doing main / universe as separate lists? :)
[01:04] <seb128> doko: where did you say you have your transition stuff?
[01:05] <\sh> c++?
[01:05] <doko> concordia cxx/auto
[01:05] <\sh> oh
[01:06] <siretart> seb128: pong
[01:06] <mvo> seb128: oregano (universe/gnome) Src: oregano
[01:06] <mvo> libgpewidget1 (universe/libs) Src: libgpewidget
[01:06] <mvo> libgcj6-awt (universe/libs) Src: gcc-4.0
[01:06] <mvo> gcc-snapshot (universe/devel) Src: gcc-snapshot
[01:06] <mvo> fdclock (universe/x11) Src: fdclock
[01:06] <mvo> libcairo1-dev (libdevel) Src: libcairo
[01:06] <mvo> seb128: is that waht you want?
[01:06] <seb128> mvo: ups, I should try befire asking :)
[01:06] <seb128> yeah
[01:07] <mvo> seb128: no, I had to tweak it first :)
[01:07] <seb128> oh, k
[01:08] <doko> seb128: please leave out the gcc-4.0 and gcc-snapshot package ;)
[01:09] <ogra> first32.c:(.text+0x1f3): undefined reference to `memcmp'
[01:09] <mvo> doko: is that for gcj stuff (the dependency?)
[01:09] <ogra> hmm, string.h is included.... has anybody an idea ?
[01:09] <seb128> doko: k, I'm trying to figure how your tools work
[01:09] <doko> AWT gtk peer bindings, yes
[01:10] <mvo> ogra: what pkg?
[01:10] <ogra> mknbi
[01:10] <seb128> doko: aspell-update.sh and bupdate.sh are 2 different transitions, right ?
[01:10] <doko> seb128: you did ask for the tool, not for the docs ;-P
[01:10] <doko> yes, take bupdate.sh
[01:11] <seb128> I just have to tweak them for the upload/changelog/build-depends changes I want and to provide the right list?
[01:11] <seb128> k
[01:11] <doko> modifiy the message in the script, and call it bupdate.s $(cat sources)
[01:11] <doko> seb128: yes, insert the edit stuff at the place, where dch is called
[01:12] <doko> seb128: ahh, and when you edit something, don't insert a buildN suffix, but always a ubuntuN suffix ...
[01:13] <seb128> doko: depending on the transitionned version of GTK is the clean way to do that ... but I'm not sure I can automate that correctly
[01:13] <seb128> maybe I should wait to get the new gtk on the buildd
[01:13] <seb128> and they do a rebuild without changes
[01:14] <mvo> ogra: that's a interessting package. assembler code all over the place
[01:15] <doko> seb128: that sounds better, although it needs infinity, lamont and fabbione ... at least it's only _one_ package which needs to be installed on the buildd
[01:16] <seb128> infinity: would that be good enough?
[01:16] <ogra> mvo, i simply dont understand why it include string.h but still doesnt find memcmp
[01:16] <seb128> mvo: what did you tweak to get the section?
[01:17] <mvo> seb128: import apt, sys
[01:17] <mvo> c = apt.Cache()
[01:17] <mvo> p = c[sys.argv[1] ]
[01:17] <mvo> for rdep in p._pkg.RevDependsList:
[01:17] <mvo>         pkg =  c[rdep.ParentPkg.Name]
[01:17] <mvo>         print "%s (%s) Src: %s" % (pkg.name, pkg.section, pkg.sourcePackageNam
[01:17] <seb128> thanks
[01:17] <seb128> and sorry to be lazy :)
[01:17] <mvo> ogra: it's in linux-asm-string.h, it does not link against libc
[01:17] <mvo> seb128: no problem :)
[01:17] <mvo> seb128: sorry for not pasting it earlier
[01:18] <ogra> seb128, you and the word lazy in one sencents simply doesnt fit ;)
[01:19] <ogra> sentence
[01:19] <seb128> ha ha
[01:20] <\sh> grmpf
[01:20] <\sh> no evolution connector for ms exchange 5.5?
[01:21] <infinity> seb128 : The buildd chroots shouldn't have gtk installed at all anyway, the problem is that if an arch lags behind, it could do your rebuilt apps before it rebuilds GTK.
[01:21] <infinity> seb128 : Not a problem for the DC arches, but it could break hppa/sparc (in the grand scheme of things, breaking hppa/sparc isn't a big deal, but it does upset lamont and fabio a bit)
[01:22] <infinity> seb128 : For the DC arches, though, if you rebuild GTK, wait for it to be installed in the archive on all 4 arches, then do your other uploads, it should "just work".
[01:23] <infinity> seb128 : And I wouldn't slap you too hard about doing it that way.
[01:23] <infinity> seb128 : It means you can't upload anything until elmo shows up, though. :)
[01:23] <seb128> yeah, k, I'll do that
[01:23] <seb128> and that's only ~200 packages to rebuild
[01:24] <seb128> fabbione/lamont will manage to catch up :)
[01:24] <infinity> It's not a question of catching up, it's that they may end up with broken deps if they build out of order.
[01:24] <seb128> they will have to binary NMU the stuff still depending on libcairo1
[01:24] <infinity> Which means new source uploads to fix second-class arches, since we don't do binNMUs.
[01:24] <seb128> or to wait for the next upload
[01:25] <fabbione> or use versioned B-D like any sane develope
[01:25] <fabbione> +r
[01:26] <seb128> fabbione: want to do the 200 uploads ?
[01:26] <fabbione> that would be about time..
[01:26] <seb128> I'm already kind of really busy
[01:26] <fabbione> seb128: do you want to take over kernel and X apps :)
[01:26] <fabbione> so am i
[01:26] <seb128> so if I can automate that instead of taking 2 days
[01:26] <mjg59> jdub: Hi
[01:27] <fabbione> seb128: just tell me the order. i can stop the buildd and do it manually..
[01:27] <doko> seb128, infinity: why not do the same game as we did for the C++ stuff?
[01:27] <infinity> fabbione : Verioned build-deps were my first suggestion.  He's trying to weasel out of them. :)
[01:28] <seb128> there other options is:
[01:28] <seb128> I do the ~80 mains packages
[01:28] <doko> infinity: b-d's are evil for such kind of things ;)
[01:28] <seb128> and I let MOTU fix the universe craps :)
[01:28] <mvo> doko: do you know if something changed in gcc 4.0 and it's buildin intrinsics (like __buildin_memcmp)?
[01:28] <doko> mov: no
[01:28] <seb128> anyway I'm grabbing some food, brb
[01:28] <infinity> doko : No, it's precisely one of the things they're meant for.  Build-depends are for build daemons, it's a happy accident that they sometimes work for by-hand builds and backports.
[01:28] <doko> mvo: no, nothing changed AFAIK
[01:28] <pitti> Hi
[01:29] <infinity> doko : Build-depends are the only way we really have to enforce consistent builds.
[01:29] <doko> infinity: yes for libs, no for apps
[01:30] <doko> at least that's the way unstable is currently handled ...
[01:30] <infinity> fabbione : You may be better off just telling your buildd not to build anything until you've done GTK and uploaded it.
[01:31] <doko> seb128: do you change the b-d to libcairo2-dev?
[01:31] <infinity> doko : Yeah, that's because Debian developers whine loudly, and with 1000 voices.  Ubuntu build-deps do seem to be tighter, on average.
[01:31] <fabbione> infinity: ok i did stop the buildd..
[01:32] <fabbione> infinity: so again.. i need to build cairo and than gtk?
[01:32] <fabbione> and then i can unleash the buildd again?
[01:32] <infinity> fabbione : yeah, once elmo pops his head in and does the cairo sync.
[01:32] <fabbione> ok
[01:33] <infinity> fabbione : GTK will build-dep on the new cairo, so that's not an issue.  Just looks like the apps won't have versioned GTK build-deps, cause seb has other things to do (TBH, I don't blame him)
[01:33] <infinity> fabbione : Oh, while you're waiting, can you make sure that the latest mesa is built on sparc?... That'll effect my uploads (again, once elmo's around and shuffles the archive)
[01:36] <fabbione> infinity: it's still building..
[01:36] <fabbione> so if it doesn't FTBFS we are teh rock
[01:36] <infinity> It won't.
[01:42] <Mitario> hi everyone
[01:42] <Mithrandir> iconview/qiconview.cpp:378: warning: class QIconViewToolTip has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
[01:42] <Mithrandir> iconview/qiconview.cpp: In member function virtual void QIconView::doAutoScroll():
[01:42] <Mithrandir> iconview/qiconview.cpp:3310: error: region was not declared in this scope
[01:42] <Mitario> is there some bazaar bugreport/development channel?
[01:42] <Mithrandir> oh, bloody silly qt.
[01:42] <seb128> doko: gtk will build-depends on libcairo2-dev
[01:42] <seb128> doko: apps only build-depends on libgtk2.0-dev, not on cairo
[01:42] <seb128> they get the Depends while building with gtk
[01:42] <\sh> Mithrandir: qt4? ,-)
[01:43] <Mithrandir> \sh: qt3 from breezy.
[01:44] <\sh> Mithrandir: which arc? qt3 was building fine the last time I tried ;)
[01:44] <infinity> seb128 : That sort of thing could be fixed once and for all with a sane useage of libtool that didn't leak transient library deps...
[01:46] <Mithrandir> \sh: the last two versions haven't built properly.
[01:46] <infinity> If QT builds at all, I consider that improper.
[01:48] <\sh> Mithrandir: are the sources in the archives? so I can have a look this evenin
[01:48] <\sh> g
[01:49] <Mithrandir> \sh: feel free
[01:49] <\sh> Mithrandir: 3:3.3.4-4ubuntu3 ?
[01:50] <Mithrandir> \sh: yes.
[01:50] <\sh> Mithrandir: can't be serious ,-)
[01:51] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ~ > apt-cache showsrc qt-x11-free | grep ^Version ; apt-cache show libqt3-mt-dev | grep ^Version
[01:51] <Mithrandir> Version: 3:3.3.4-4ubuntu3
[01:51] <Mithrandir> Version: 3:3.3.4-4ubuntu2
[01:52] <mvo> ogra_*: can you actually test this mknbi stuff? I made it build but would feel better if it was tested
[01:53] <ogra_ltsp> mvo, i could try, but i have not even a machine with floppy around... mknbi creates netboot floppies
[01:53] <Lathiat> can use qemu
[01:53] <Lathiat> or vmware
[01:55] <mvo> doko: it looks like -Os does not/no longer include __buildin_* intrinsics?
[01:55] <mvo> ogra__: I killed my last floppy a while ago ...
[01:56] <fabbione> infinity: ok.. i have MESA up for sparc.. buildd is in idle
[01:56] <mvo> ogra__: you need this stuff for edubuntu, right?
[01:57] <infinity> fabbione : Fantabulous.  Do freeglut once the new mesa is in, and you're doing even better. :)
[01:57] <fabbione> infinity: it's already in mesa..
[01:58] <fabbione> i have a local cache for pkgs in main :)
[01:58] <fabbione> so i can save 2/3 hours roundrobin between archive -> ports -> home
[01:58] <doko> doko: since when?
[01:59] <ogra> mvo, where is the source to test ?
 doko: since when? <- lovely to talk alone, isn't it?
[02:00] <fabbione> infinity: freeglut building
[02:01] <doko> fabbione: ok, need a break ...
[02:01] <doko> mvo: since when?
[02:01] <mvo> orga: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/mknbi
[02:01] <ogra> thanks
[02:01] <mvo> doko: don't know, it seems to be (one) cause for the FTBFS of mknbi, I will do a quick test-case to check it
[02:02] <pvanhoof> will the mono packages in breezy get fixed?
[02:03] <pvanhoof> it's missing all the assemblies
[02:03] <ogra> mvo, looks bad....
[02:03] <ogra> mvo, (not caused by your fix though)
[02:04] <ogra> seems to have utf8 probs....
[02:04] <mvo> ogra: what's happening?
[02:04] <ogra> just upgrading the machine, probably perl is outdated
[02:08] <retrix> am i correct in assuming breezy will use the network-admin tool as hoary did?
[02:08] <ogra> looks like :/
[02:08] <ogra> mvo, ogra@workie:~$ mknbi-linux
[02:08] <ogra> Warning: Perl 5.8 may have a bug that affects handing of strings in Unicode
[02:08] <ogra> locales that may cause misbehaviour with binary files.  To work around this
[02:08] <ogra> problem, set $LANG to not have a suffix of .UTF-8 before running this program.
[02:08] <ogra> mkelf-linux is preferred in future instead of mknbi-linux
[02:08] <ogra> Usage: /usr/bin/mknbi-linux kernelimage [ramdisk]
[02:09] <ogra> mvo, even after an upgrade....
[02:09] <mvo> doko: seems to be a pretty special case the problem with mknbi
[02:09] <mvo> ogra: just unsetting LANG before running it does not help?
[02:10] <ogra> works...
[02:10] <hunger> What is left of the network magic goal, now that network manager seems to be out of scope?
[02:16] <mjg59> Anyone have any opinions on 13743?
[02:16] <mjg59> ogra: Ping?
[02:20] <carstenh> pitti: ping
[02:21] <pitti> hi carstenh
[02:21] <Mithrandir> mjg59: try loading them in the other order, or can that fail too?
[02:22] <mjg59> Mithrandir: That could fail too
[02:22] <mjg59> The problem is that if one module doesn't load, we don't fall back to the second
[02:22] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I guess "beat the manufacturer with a baseball bat" is not an option?
[02:23] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Not now the hardware exists, no
[02:23] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I guess just falling back as you suggest is our only real option, then
[02:25] <infinity> Erm, wait.  Which manufacturer has 8139[abc]  PCI ids on an 8139c+ card?  (or vice versa)
[02:25] <infinity> That's just wrong.
[02:26] <infinity> (But yes, if such overlaps do exist, there's not much we can do but try both and pray)
[02:27] <Mithrandir> 0000:00:05.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10)
[02:27] <Mithrandir> you mean that one?
[02:31] <mjg59> Yeah
[02:32] <mjg59> That PCI ID could be either driver
[02:32] <fabbione> infinity: ok.. freeglut done.. what's next?
[02:33] <fabbione> infinity: ubuntu7 is only a rebuild.. right?
[02:34] <infinity> fabbione : yeah, no worries rthere.
[02:34] <fabbione> infinity: so ia64 did use the old mesa...
[02:35] <fabbione> or is it something else i need to check?
[02:35] <infinity> fabbione : Dirty chroot.  1 out of my 12 chroots apparently still had the dpkg segv breakage.  Cleaned up now.
[02:35] <fabbione> ahh ok
[02:36] <mako> mdz: you're right
[02:37] <Treenaks> infinity: ogra?
[02:37] <infinity> That would be fun.
[02:41] <infinity> Alternately, I could blame it on daniels.  Hrmph.
[02:42] <ogra> infinity, my last build of xscreensaver was on Jun 02, that one worked... no idea why there is no debian/tmp/etc/X11/app-defaults/XScreenSaver
[02:42] <ogra> only pitti any you touched it inbetween
[02:43] <infinity> I know why there isn't.  Looking into it.
[02:43] <ogra> mjg59, pong... sorry, had nop time for gnome-power yet
[02:43] <ogra> (guessing thats the reason for the ping)
[02:43] <mjg59> ogra: Yup
[02:43] <mjg59> ogra: If it's going into Breezy, we need to fix it up soon
[02:44] <ogra> i know... i'll try to get it ready before sunday
[02:45] <paolo-> seb128: what word does describe the current status of libcairo? :-)
[02:45] <seb128> paolo-: waiting for elmo
[02:46] <ogra> mjg59, sorry, i got struck by some unexpected stuff i have to fix first
[02:46] <paolo-> OK, cool.  In the meanwhile we got it working in gtk, it is really nice :-) http://haskell.org/gtk2hs/gallery/cairo/Screenshot_drawing_gdk http://haskell.org/gtk2hs/gallery/cairo/Screenshot_drawing_cairo
[02:47] <seb128> rocl
[02:47] <seb128> rock
[02:47] <seb128> paolo-: is that using cairo directly, or gdk with cairo ?
[02:48] <paolo-> seb128: it's using cairo functions on the cairo context got from gdk_cairo_create()
[02:49] <seb128> paolo-: there is difference on the same program between gdk 2.6 and 2.8?
[02:49] <seb128> ie: it doesn't get better because gtk uses cairo?
[02:49] <mjg59> ogra: Ok, cool
[02:49] <mjg59> ogra: Thanks!
[02:49] <paolo-> seb128: this snippet is built agains 2.8, in Gtk+2.6 you'd need to bind that GtkCairo widget or such.
[02:50] <seb128> paolo-: yeah, but the non-smooth-lines is gtk 2.6 or 2.8 ?
[02:50] <paolo-> 2.8
[02:50] <seb128> :(
[02:50] <paolo-> Hmm, let me see..
[02:50] <seb128> I thought than GTK was using cairo for such stuff
[02:50] <seb128> so you win the smooth for free
[02:50] <seb128> ie: no need to recode stuff
[02:51] <paolo-> Let me check with the guy fond on Gtk :-)
[02:51] <seb128> k
[02:51] <paolo-> OK, it's 2.8 using Gdk :-(
[02:51] <seb128> does the guy know why it's not smooth?
[02:51] <seb128> since gdk uses cairo
[02:53] <paolo-> The GDK interface still use direct Xlib things.
[02:55] <paolo-> He say that thisis justified on the basis on compatibility, not upsetting things.  And if people want the smooth lines & co then they can use the cairo interface which is more powerful and has more features than the gdk one, anyway.
[02:56] <paolo-> "It's just that gtk+ 2.8 is using cairo now in places where it previously used the gdk drawing primitives, but if you use gdk you get gdk - besides, the gdk is quicker since it's lower level and more direcly maps to xlib calls"
[02:57] <seb128> paolo-: thanks
[02:57] <paolo-> You're welcome!
[02:58] <carstenh> JaneW: ping. pitti told me that you are very creative when choosing kernel-names. do you have any suggestion for our firewall tool?
[02:59] <JaneW> carstenh: hi...
[02:59] <JaneW> carstenh: do you have a theme in mind?
[02:59] <carstenh> hi
[02:59] <JaneW> carstenh: and do you need a one off name or a series?
[02:59] <carstenh> i have no idea :/
[02:59] <carstenh> should sound good and easy rememberalbe
[03:00] <paolo-> seb128: I'll notice libcairo2 from breezy-changes, right?  (so I'll not beg you anymore)
[03:00] <carstenh> +be
[03:00] <JaneW> carstenh: well I like the name Gryphon (mythical beast with body of a lion and head of an eagle, protector of the holy grail)
[03:00] <seb128> paolo-: yep, but it'll probably be uploaded today
[03:00] <carstenh> catalyst would sound good, but cisco uses it for its switches
[03:00] <pitti> JaneW: we need a name for the firewall package, so no series :-)
[03:00] <ogra> carstenh, portmaster... but thats (tm) too
[03:01] <pitti> ubuwall - too ugly
[03:01] <carstenh> ogra: originally i used netfilter in my proposal :/
[03:02] <pitti> carstenh: that's the name of the kernel side
[03:02] <carstenh> pitti: because of that people writing this might not like me to use this name :)
[03:02] <ogra> doorkeeper  ?
[03:02] <pitti> gryphon -- see, these names are the reason why I suggested to ask  Jane :-)
[03:03] <carstenh> JaneW: gryphon really sounds good, but a linux cd palyer uses it too
[03:03] <chmj> pitti: eheh, that should be a winner
[03:04] <JaneW> It's also spelt griffin (my sons name!) but the spelling Gryphon is more mythical
[03:04] <JaneW> carstenh: ok Norbert? Fire breathing baby dragon in Harry Potter...
[03:04] <pitti> reminds me of Gryffindor :-)
[03:04] <JaneW> pitti: that too
[03:05] <tseng> norbert is a DD
[03:05] <carstenh> :)
[03:05] <pitti> packetcop
[03:05] <pitti> no, too ugly
[03:05] <Mithrandir> elmo: please add linux-wlan-ng for amd64 as well in PaS
[03:05] <\sh> JaneW: read the new harry potter...
[03:06] <pitti> \sh: I have the book, but I didn't find time to read it so far :-)
[03:06] <pitti> my gf has, though
[03:06] <ogra> mvo, mknbi seems to produce a kernel image, i cant test its netboot capabilitys.... lets upload it and see if we get bugreports... a building package is still better then a non building package
[03:06] <JaneW> \sh: no I only read the first - found them a bit 'young' but the movies have been good.... I akm sure I'll read them to the kids though
[03:06] <\sh> pitti: I read it in a couple of hours...
[03:07] <\sh> JaneW: the last two books are not for children (IMHO)
[03:07] <\sh> JaneW: too much SM inside
[03:07] <carstenh> siegfried killed a dragon, how was its name?
[03:07] <\sh> kunigunde?
[03:07] <\sh> oh no..that was the wifes name *lol*
[03:08] <JaneW> Fafnir
[03:08] <JaneW> A Norse dragon.  Either way, he was ultimately transformed into a dragon and slain by Siegfried.
[03:08] <JaneW> doesn't really roll off the toungue though...
[03:09] <JaneW> sounds like a stiffled sneeze!
[03:09] <\sh> JaneW: fan of Nibelungen?
[03:11] <\sh> reading "The Hobbit" and "LotR" at least twice a year, is pure fun :)
[03:12] <carstenh> smaug does not really sound that good
[03:12] <\sh> and every second year Kings "The Stand" (original edition with those 7592883 pages more)
[03:12] <JaneW> Hestia - Greek goddess of fire, the hearth and home.
[03:12] <JaneW> Pyrrha - "Fire"; daughter of Pandora and Epimetheus, and the Hellenic equivalent of Noah's wife.
[03:12] <JaneW> Vesta - Roman goddess of fire, the hearth and home.
[03:12] <JaneW> Eisa - "Embers"; Norse goddess of fire, the hearth and home, and daughter of the god Loki.
[03:12] <JaneW> Gerda - Norse goddess of beauty, magic, fire, the sun and day, time.
[03:13] <carstenh> JaneW: hestia sounds imho good
[03:14] <ubuntuguy> Please improve ndiswrapper support for Breezy release. Thank you!
[03:14] <Treenaks> uh
[03:14] <pitti> wow
[03:14] <Treenaks> please file a bug next time, kthxbye
[03:14] <\sh> rotfl
[03:14] <\sh> what was that
[03:14] <pitti> fix my bugs, kthxbye
[03:15] <elmo> seb128: what do you mean by pango 2.10?\
[03:16] <elmo> I only see a pango1.0 package in experimental
[03:16] <pitti> seb128: do you know whether any program directly wants to access /tmp/.esd/socket?
[03:16] <carstenh> since it is written in python pyrrha might be better ;)
[03:16] <elmo> seb128: and I assume you mean 'libcairo' from unstable?
[03:16] <carstenh> thanks a lot for all the suggestions
[03:16] <seb128> elmo: pango1.0 1.10.0
[03:16] <\sh> I just found something about "Jane"...and she is really a "Jane"
[03:17] <\sh> "Jane is an artificial sentience thought to exist within the ansible network by which spaceships and planets communicate in realtime across galactic distances."
[03:17] <seb128> elmo: libcairo 0.9.2
[03:17] <pitti> carstenh: plasma - starts with p and is fire :-)
[03:17] <seb128> elmo: and I'm going to upload gtk 2.8.0 ... I'll ping you again about it when incoming lists it
[03:17] <pitti> yay, new gtk
[03:18] <seb128> pitti: not that I know of
[03:18] <fabbione> crack
[03:18] <JaneW> \sh: :)
[03:18] <JaneW> \sh: what about JANE weekly
[03:18] <fabbione> seb128: cairo didn't propagate yet.. did it?
[03:19] <seb128> fabbione: when this GTK is built and available for the buildd, all the rdepends of libcairo1 are going to be rebuild
[03:19] <\sh> JaneW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_%28Ender%27s_Game%29
[03:19] <seb128> fabbione: no, it has not been synced yet, elmo just ponged
[03:19] <fabbione> seb128: i did stop the buildd, waiting for cairo and later for gtk
[03:19] <fabbione> ah ok
[03:19] <seb128> fabbione: what you want to do is stop building with gtk << 2.8 from now
[03:19] <fabbione> i already stopped..
[03:19] <seb128> ok
[03:20] <JaneW> \sh: I mean Jane's Defense weekly
[03:20] <carstenh> pitti: plasma.sf.net is upstream-dead since three years
[03:20] <fabbione> seb128: remember i still have a bunch of apps that can't be built due to that binutils problem..
[03:20] <seb128> brb, I just reboot this box with gtk 2.8.0 before uploading to be sure
[03:20] <pitti> carstenh: oh, it already exists? darn
[03:21] <\sh> JaneW: u mean "What's the status of <name your fav. breezyGoal>" ? this defense? ,-)
[03:22] <JaneW> lol
[03:22] <bur[n] er> i dunno if you guys know this, but hibernate actually works in breezy ;)
[03:25] <pitti> bur[n] er: not for me :-(
[03:26] <\sh> pitti: wanna have this toshiba baby? ,-)
[03:28] <carstenh> apollon is also known to put of harm (this is what a firewall should do) and is somehow related to python since he killed it :)
[03:28] <pitti> \sh: well, my iBook works reasonably, and suspend to ram works fine :-)
[03:30] <\sh> pitti: yesterday evening I tried to suspend2ram my nc6000..this morning I woke up..I had to remove the battery as well to let it run again..
[03:30] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[03:30] <\sh> the power led was on..and the laptop was hot
[03:31] <infinity> seb128 : Alright, where are you at in preparing for your transition, and what do we need to coordinate to not step on each others' toes?
[03:32] <seb128> infinity: cairo/pango have been synced. I'm uploading gtk 2.8.0 which use them to Debian atm and will ask elmo to sync it from incoming when it's here
[03:33] <bur[n] er> pitti: how do you suspend to ram?  there's no gui way correct?
[03:33] <seb128> infinity: then I'll make sure with you / fabbione / lamont than the buildd are ok before using doko's script to a mass rebuild
[03:33] <jelkner> does anyone here have a minute to help out with a umask question?
[03:34] <pitti> bur[n] er: I just close the lid or press the power button
[03:34] <pitti> jelkner: just ask
[03:34] <infinity> seb128 : Okay, tell me before you start, so I can stop uploading potentially-clashing packages.  Until you're ready, I'll assume the archive is mine. :)
[03:34] <jelkner> i have an ubuntu web server set up at our school, and i can't get the umask set right
[03:34] <infinity> seb128 : Deal?
[03:35] <pitti> jelkner: however, it sounds as if #ubuntu would be more appropriate
[03:35] <seb128> infinity: fine with me, let's do that :)
[03:35] <pitti> jelkner: you mean you can't set it or you don't know which one to set?
[03:35] <jelkner> i put "umask 002" in both the user's .bashrc and .bash_profile
[03:35] <jelkner> but when she ftp's a file it still has 600 permissions
[03:36] <jelkner> since apache is running as www-data
[03:36] <jelkner> i made her group www-data
[03:37] <jelkner> so that pages she uploads can be read by the server
[03:37] <pitti> jelkner: -> #ubuntu
[03:37] <jelkner> ok, but i find that channel frequently *not* helpful
[03:37] <jelkner> but i'll try again
[03:41] <JaneW> carstenh: so are you happy with that name or should I keep looking?
[03:42] <infinity> doko : Do you happen to know why htmldoc is built with g++-3.3?
[03:43] <doko> infinity: yes, circular build dependencies between fltk1.1 and htmldoc
[03:43] <infinity> doko : So it can be transitioned now, I assume?
[03:44] <doko> maybe I forgot to rebuild htmldoc?
[03:44] <doko> infinity: yes, I think so, if fltk1.1 is built on all archs
[03:44] <carstenh> JaneW: apollon is already taken by a kde file sharing tool, so feel free to suggest another names :) thanks a lot for your help
[03:44] <JaneW> carstenh: cos my last 2 atempts are Typhon and Quetzalcoatl
[03:44] <infinity> doko : You uploaded a "rebuild for transition" change, but didn't actually remove the g++-3.3 build-dep or the bit in debian/rules.
[03:44] <doko> oops, I'll fix it
[03:45] <infinity> doko : Thanks.  I noticed it cause I'm rebuilding fltk1.1 right now (not for C++).
[03:45] <infinity> doko : Actually, if it build-deps on libfltk1.1-dev, hold off until I've uploaded the new fltk.  It'll just be broken anyway until I do.
[03:46] <doko> infinity: ok
[03:48] <carstenh> the latter is too long and typhoon is some commerial firewall tool (or something similar)
[03:50] <carstenh> JaneW: i forgot to hilight you :)
[03:53] <mjg59> Is Claire around at the moment?
[03:55] <mvo> seb128: is there something wrong with gdm? I seem to be unable to log into a Xnet gdm
[03:56] <JaneW> crsten: sigh, this is HARD :P
[03:56] <carstenh> :)
[03:56] <JaneW> carstenh: I mean ^
[03:56] <\sh> grmpf...
[03:56] <\sh> fixing qt
[03:58] <JaneW> carstenh: trebuchet ?
[03:58] <ogra> JaneW, thats a microsoft font
[03:58] <JaneW> argh!
[03:58] <ogra> (a very popular one)
[03:58] <JaneW> ok we'll need to make up a word
[03:59] <infinity> \sh : Making it build again?  While you're at it, it needs a mesa transition.
[03:59] <ogra> just shuffle some letters together
[03:59] <\sh> carstenh: a name for what?
[03:59] <\sh> I think "Stephan" is a good name for a boy ,-) or "Stephen" for international purposes
[03:59] <infinity> \sh : When you have it building, can you ping me?
[03:59] <JaneW> Wallace
[03:59] <\sh> infinity: ok...this comes next
[03:59] <\sh> infinity: sure
[04:00] <JaneW> carstenh: Mr Plod? (Policeman from Noddy)
[04:00] <infinity> \sh : Alternately, I can transition it right now, watch it FTBFS, and you can work from my sources. :)
[04:00] <\sh> infinity: what build deps for mesa trans.?
[04:01] <carstenh> \sh: for the firewall
[04:01] <\sh> infinity: or let me fix the source errors first...I just created a patch
[04:01] <carstenh> JaneW: i never heard something about noddy :/
[04:02] <mvo> carstenh: what about "captain carrot" (famous discworld policeman)
[04:02] <ogra> mvo, did you get my last msg ? i'd upload it if you could give me a minimally more descriptive changelog entry
[04:02] <carstenh> hmm, it is very long
[04:02] <ogra> but cool
[04:02] <\sh> carstenh: for ubuntu? what about a short name like PUFW
[04:02] <\sh> PersonalUbuntuFireWall
[04:03] <ogra> i like captain carrot
[04:03] <\sh> In german it sounds like puff daddy ,-)
[04:03] <mvo> carstenh: jusr "carrot"?  or "vimes" (after commander vimes, another very famous discworld policeman)
[04:03] <carstenh> \sh: yes, for ubuntu
[04:03] <fabbione> seb128: libcairo -> gtk -> pango, right?
[04:03] <mvo> \sh: pufw gives me the wrong mental images ;)
[04:03] <ogra> heh, me too
[04:03] <mvo> ogra: no, haven't got it, I'll /msg you
[04:03] <carstenh> hmm, this are a lot of suggestions :)
[04:03] <\sh> mvo: accidently...
[04:04] <seb128> fabbione: no
[04:04] <seb128> fabbione: libcairo, pango, gtk
[04:04] <seb128> mvo: what about gdm?
[04:04] <mvo> carstenh: it's always the hardest bit of developing ;)
[04:04] <\sh> mvo: but those people are using as well human wearable firewalls ,-)
[04:04] <seb128> mvo: what does it say?
[04:04] <fabbione> seb128: perfect.. thanks
[04:04] <mvo> seb128: nothing, just "wrong password" when I try to login into a nested gnome esssion
[04:04] <mvo> \sh: heh
[04:05] <seb128> mvo: are you sure your keyboard config is ok, not using qwerty or something?
[04:05] <\sh> ah...colony 3 doesn't install in a VMWare VMachine
[04:05] <seb128> elmo: please sync gtk+2.0 2.8.0-1 from incoming
[04:06] <\sh> forgot to tell ya...it complains after stage 1 reboot that there is no "tty" accessable...and stops inside the busybox
[04:06] <mvo> seb128: right, I have a "qwerty" in the nested window. how can I get rid of it :) ?
[04:08] <seb128> mvo: no clue, it works for me .. your main gdm as an another layout?
[04:08] <\sh> infinity: qiconview ftbfs fixed
[04:09] <\sh> infinity: I will let it compile further to see other issues...send me the mesa stuff for debian/control and I'll adjust them as well
[04:10] <\sh> infinity: btw...it was an easy fix ,-) QRegion region; was missing...
[04:10] <JaneW> carstenh: Noddy.com , http://www.altavista.com/image/results?itag=ody&q=mr+plod&kgs=1&kls=0 <- Mr Plod
[04:10] <mvo> seb128: my main gdm has "qwertz"
[04:11] <seb128> mvo: and you use gdmflexiserver --xnest?
[04:11] <mvo> seb128: yes
[04:11] <seb128> do you have the issue with "gdmflexiserver" ?
[04:12] <carstenh> JaneW: looks funny :)
[04:12] <infinity> \sh : Let me grab the source and give you a patch.
[04:12] <JaneW> carstenh: is
[04:13] <\sh> infinity: then it's easier I'll send u the dpatch an 00list and u adjust the control...:)
[04:14] <JaneW> carstenh: ok I have an ethnic african word that might work, and go with ubuntu...
[04:15] <desrt> daniels; dpkg: erreur de traitement de /var/cache/apt/archives/libgl1-xorg-dri_6.8.2-50_i386.deb (--unpack): tentative de remplacement de /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/gamma_dri.so, qui appartient aussi au paquet xlibmesa-dri
[04:16] <JaneW> carstenh: it's kraal....Kraal  is an Afrikaans word for either an enclosure for horses, cattle and the like, or a native village surrounded by a palisade, mud wall, or other fencing, roughly circular in form. The word is derived possibly from a native African word, but probably from the Spanish corral, or Portuguese ciirral. The term has been more broadly used to describe the way of life associated with the kraal that is found among
[04:16] <JaneW> some African, especially South African, peoples. Among certain peoples of KwaZulu Natal, for example, the kraal consists of a collection of huts.
[04:16] <JaneW> Folds for animals and enclosures made specially for defensive purposes are also called kraals.
[04:16] <\sh> infinity: mail sent
[04:16] <mvo> seb128: if I run just gdmflexiserver i get a window "choose server"
[04:17] <mvo> seb128: and then I get a new login and keys are fine
[04:17] <mvo> strage
[04:17] <mvo> strange even
[04:17] <seb128> mvo: the "Choose server" is a known issue
[04:17] <seb128> mvo: I would say that's an xnest issue, not a gdm one
[04:18] <carstenh> JaneW: sounds really good, thanks :)
[04:19] <mvo> seb128: ok, fair enough
[04:19] <elmo> seb128: done
[04:19] <mvo> ping ogra
[04:19] <seb128> elmo: thanks!
[04:21] <JaneW> carstenh: :), must go I will be back later for meetings
[04:21] <JaneW> bye all
[04:21] <infinity> \sh : Cheers, uploaded.
[04:21] <\sh> infinity: ur welcome .)
[04:22] <carstenh> bye JaneW
[04:22] <infinity> doko : fltk1.1 is looking good, if you upload htmldoc for the next cron.daily, it should be fine.
[04:26] <chmj> carstenh: u still open for name suggestions ?
[04:27] <bddebian> Hello
[04:28] <seb128> chmj: you work on bluetooth, right?
[04:28] <seb128> hi bddebian
[04:28] <chmj> seb128: yes
[04:28] <bddebian> Hi seb128
[04:28] <seb128> chmj: gnome-bluetooth update planned before 5.10?
[04:28] <doko> infinity: ok
[04:29] <chmj> seb128: only to fix that Nautilus "send via bluetooth" option
[04:29] <seb128> chmj: nautilus-sendto is main and gnome-bluetooth universe, which is an issue
[04:30] <seb128> chmj: planned to move it to main?
[04:30] <chmj> seb128: its too late now, don't think mdz will allow that
[04:31] <chmj> seb128: SoC stuff is also deffered
[04:31] <seb128> k
[04:32] <lamont-away> seb128: so there's a libcairo sync, then a new gtk+2.0, and then we can let the fur fly?
[04:33] <seb128> lamont-away: libcairo, pango1.0, gtk+2.0
[04:33] <seb128> lamont-away: everything using gtk has to be built using libgtk2.0-0 2.8.0-1 from now
[04:33] <seb128> that's the version using libcairo2
[04:36] <chmj> carstenh: ping
[04:37] <infinity> lamont-away : And while there's fur flying, make sure you have the new mesa and new freeglut (and some clean chroots) before doing anything else.
[04:37] <carstenh> chmj: sure :)
[04:37] <infinity> lamont-away : It's a double fur day.
[04:37] <lamont-away> infinity: well, a kernel is building now, so that helps some...
[04:38] <lamont-away> OTOH, it's about done.
[04:39] <pef> hi
[04:41] <seb128> infinity: pango1.0 is dep-waiting on libcairo right?
[04:42] <seb128> ie: it'll retry by itself?
[04:43] <chmj> carstenh: "sigmoid" - used mostly in AI, its a mathematical function that produces a S shaped curve, not relevant to firewalling though
[04:44] <carstenh> chmj: sounds good too, thanks :)
[04:44] <chmj> carstenh: :)
[05:03] <lamont-away> infinity: mesa/freeglut means building xorg? or something else?
[05:03] <infinity> lamont-away : No, just mesa and freeglut...
[05:03] <lamont-away> infinity: rather, specifically what source package do I need to build and install
[05:03] <infinity> lamont-away : Unless you're a few xorg releases behind, then that might be nice to build too.
[05:03] <lamont-away> I have -43
[05:04] <trygvebw> Any major breakages in Breezy atm?
[05:04] <infinity> lamont-away : Ouch.  I'd build -50 if I were you, then do mesa and freeglut.
[05:04] <lamont-away> libs/mesa_<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1: Needs-Build [optional:out-of-date]
[05:04] <lamont-away> x11/xorg_6.8.2-50: Needs-Build [optional:out-of-date]
[05:04] <lamont-away> graphics/freeglut_2.2.0-8ubuntu5: Installed [optional:]
[05:05] <infinity> lamont-away : being 7 releases behind on X is very m68kish of you.
[05:05] <infinity> lamont-away : Are you suffering toolchain issues, or just lack of horsies?
[05:05] <doko> :-)
[05:06] <lamont-away> was suffering toolchain issues
[05:06] <lamont-away> and it's more of a bandwidth issue than a CPU issue - esp when xorg, oo.o*, and the kernel all churn together
[05:06] <lamont-away> and I see that I need a newer freeglut
[05:07] <seb128> k, pango has built .... gtk to go :)
[05:07] <infinity> seb128 : gtk will get given-back when I see pango in the archive.
[05:07] <lamont-away> seb128: when I screw up and build some gtk apps with the wrong stuff, what's the symptom?
[05:07] <seb128> thanks
[05:08] <lamont-away> seb128: that is, how can I tell that it's a bad build and shouldn't be uploaded?
[05:08] <infinity> (ie: cron.daily is still running)
[05:08] <seb128> lamont-away: depends on libcairo1 which is not available since that's libcairo2 now
[05:08] <lamont-away> so anything that Depends: libcairo1 is evil.  check
[05:08] <seb128> correct
[05:09] <infinity> Oo, that was a quick cron.daily.
[05:10] <infinity> Okay, how sad is it that I've been conditioned to belive that 7 minutes is "quick"?
[05:12] <infinity> And GTK starts just as QT finishes.  Serendipity.
[05:12] <lamont-away> infinity: anything really borkish on the mesa/freeglut front, or do they just FTBFS?
[05:13] <infinity> lamont-away : Nothing will FTBFS, cause nothing really should, you just end up with suboptimal dependencies that germinate doens't like.
[05:13] <infinity> lamont-away : Since germinate probably doesn't look at or care about SCC arches anyway, it may not really matter. :)
[05:13] <infinity> lamont-away : Basically, this is the whole xlibmesa/libgl*-xorg -> libgl*-mesa transition, once and for all.
[05:14] <lamont-away> actually, it'll mean that packages wind up Depending on universe packages, if germinate and elmo rip them that direction...
[05:14] <infinity> lamont-away : And all should go well if mesa is built before anything else, and your chroots aren't dirty with libgl* crap (which may have happened due to segfaulting dpkg..)
[05:15] <infinity> lamont-away : Nah, cause all libgl* deps are "|" deps.
[05:15] <infinity> lamont-away : So, for releas arches, that confuses germinate, for you, it's a non-issue, probbaly.
[05:16] <infinity> lamont-away : There's no functional difference between "xlibmesa-gl | libgl1" and "libgl1-mesa | libgl1", for instance.
[05:16] <infinity> If germinate looks at SCC arches, we have big problems, so I assume it doesn't.
[05:16] <lamont-away> it doesn't
[05:17] <lamont-away> other than pulling specific packages in for them (that are seeded)
... Like kernel udebs, etc.
[05:18] <seb128> Lathiat: have you restarted/upgraded dbus or something?
[05:19] <Lathiat> seb128: nope
[05:20] <seb128> and could you send upstream bug upstream? :)
[05:20] <seb128> thanks anyway
[05:20] <Lathiat> seb128: this happens all the time, rebooted clean a few time
[05:20] <Lathiat> s
[05:20] <Lathiat> ok
[05:20] <Lathiat> i prefer yoru judgement over if it should go upstream than mine
[05:21] <lamont-away> seb128: infinity: that sound right?
[05:22] <seb128> lamont-away: seems correct to me
[05:22] <lamont-away> mdz: infinity: I'll get a new livecd-rootfs in once I get to the office, and let mdz know it's there so he can have livecd love again.
[05:22] <seb128> Lathiat: do you know how to build a package?
[05:22] <infinity> lamont-away : That should do well.
[05:22] <infinity> lamont-away : Oh, and if you're just dying for more massive shit to build, QT is happy again too.
[05:22] <Lathiat> seb128: ya
[05:22] <daniels> desrt: known issue, install libgl1-mesa{,-dri}
[05:22] <infinity> lamont-away : It can go somewhere after GTK. :)
[05:23] <seb128> Lathiat: gnome-vfs2 has a ./test-volumes that list all the drives/volumes ... that could be useful
[05:23] <lamont-away> (fur flies --> $no_build_regex = ".";)
[05:23] <lamont-away> or rather, fur flies when I remove it.
[05:25] <desrt> daniels; also fixed by uninstalling the old package
[05:26] <desrt> daniels; everything is peachy now :)
[05:26] <daniels> desrt: either way.  testing for libgl1-mesa* would be nice in any case.
[05:26] <desrt> is this the new one that includes support for the R350?
[05:26] <desrt> or am i totally off the mark about what does what in X?
[05:28] <daniels> r3xx dri needs to come from a combination of drm, dri and ddx
[05:28] <daniels> right now we only have the dri part via mesa
[05:28] <daniels> drm is up to fabio or benc, ddx I'm doing with my next xorg update
[05:28] <desrt> awesome
[05:28] <daniels> but we just switched over where we build libGL and the DRI modules
[05:29] <desrt> any word on when the keyboard stuff is getting fixed?
[05:29] <daniels> so if you have working DRI and can test libgl1-mesa* PLEASE DO
[05:29] <daniels> what keyboard stuff?
[05:29] <desrt> i get a gnome keyboard properties dialog on startup.. that thing where it tells me that it can't set stuff
[05:29] <tseng> xkb has been fixed for ages
[05:29] <desrt> !!
[05:29] <tseng> if you would read the mailing list
[05:29] <tseng> there was a very nice post by mr. stone
[05:29] <desrt> readinging mailing lists is not a viable option :)
[05:30] <Surak> tseng: there are still weird stuff happening with xkb
[05:30] <desrt> ok.  it's obviously a problem here.  i'll look into it :)
[05:30] <tseng> using breezy && not reading mailing lists == you lose
[05:30] <desrt> what ML should i subscribe to, then?
[05:30] <Surak> when you remove every keyboard layouts...
[05:30] <tseng> -devel
[05:30] <desrt> Surak; that's a gnome bug... it's been that way forever
[05:31] <Surak> desrt: it was already posted upstream - but someone at gnome.org said that works for him/her
[05:33] <desrt> wow.  lists contain useful information
[05:33] <desrt> daniels; from the standpoint of someone who occasionally helps people in #ubuntu -- please keep glxinfo in -desktop
[05:33] <Surak> :-)
[05:33] <lamont-away> pitti: it's a compiler bug, I'm betting... I guess I should track it down more and get a bug filed upstream gcc
[05:33] <lamont-away> or at least pester doko to do so. :-)
[05:33] <daniels> desrt: sudo apt-get install mesa-utils
[05:33] <pitti> lamont-away: ok, if it's really a compiler issue, then we can leave the workaround
[05:33] <desrt> eh.  i suppose that's not too much to ask people to do
[05:34] <daniels> desrt: it's also depended on by xbase-utils when I upload -51
[05:34] <doko> pitti: which one?
[05:35] <pitti> doko: #13486
[05:35] <desrt> daniels; ah.  that's perfect.
[05:36] <desrt> hmm.  still not ctrl+alt+F1 love
[05:36] <doko> pitti: nice. can you identify the function?
[05:36] <desrt> but gnome is no longer complaining :)
[05:36] <pitti> doko: no, sorry, stack trace is completely unusable
[05:37] <pitti> doko: and as soon as you don't compile with -O2 to make it usable, it doesn't crash
[05:37] <pitti> doko: the classic heisenbug
[05:38] <daniels> pitti: s/^\(.*\)$/printf("we're at %s:%s\n", __FILE__, __LINE__); &/;
[05:38] <pitti> daniels: nice idea
[05:39] <desrt> daniels; if recompiling without -O2 fixes it then that's almost definitely gonna fix it :P
[05:40] <doko> pitti: make two sets of object files, -O2/-O1, then combine them, that should let you identify the file in log n steps
[05:40] <Surak> Does somebody know about changes in gdialog?
[05:41] <Surak> It no longer works for me - since breezy of august 16 or 15.
[05:46] <pitti> daniels: but that certainly needs to be refined, it totally breaks source files that way
[05:50] <daniels> pitti: a little, yeah
[05:51] <pitti> daniels: one really has to do it manually, unless you have implemented a C parser that can put the commands between every command, not every line...
[05:52] <daniels> pitti: hack gcc's parser to preprend that to every source line
[05:52] <pitti> no way
[05:54] <infinity> seb128 : There, GTK uploaded on all arches, should be installed everywhere on the next cron.daily.  Let the uploads fly.
[05:55] <pitti> daniels: that thing even works again when building with -O2 -g. grumpf
[05:56] <pitti> well, since this is policy anyway, we could just leave it like that :-)
[05:56] <daniels> heh
[05:56] <doko> hmm, don't leave dormant bugs ...
[05:56] <seb128> infinity: k. Can you apt-get update the concordia i386 when it's available, so I can start using doko's script on it
[05:56] <pitti> doko: just kidding
[05:56] <daniels> seb128: er, I don't think infinity has the root.
[05:58] <seb128> oh, will ask elmo then :)
[05:59] <infinity> daniels : Shh, I'll lose all my street cred.
[06:00] <infinity> seb128 : He's right, only elmo can muck around in the porting chroots.
[06:00] <infinity> seb128 : I assume elmo's newly-hired protege will gain said powers in time as well.
[06:00] <seb128> k
[06:08] <Keybuk> he's got to be first trained in the powers of sarcasm, wit and irony
[06:09] <Keybuk> not to mention inducted into the holy church of the cyclone of hate
[06:20] <mvo> pitti: thanks for fixing #2132!
[06:23] <mdz> morning
[06:25] <mvo> morning mdz!
[06:25] <Surak> hallo
[06:25] <infinity> seb128 : gnome-pilot is FTBFS.
[06:25] <seb128> hi mdz
[06:26] <seb128> infinity: k, thanks
[06:27] <mjr> ,24,24
[06:30] <mdz> anyone know how netbooting works on powerpc?
[06:32] <mdz> ah, it uses yaboot
[06:37] <seb128> elmo: can you update concordia chroot please?
[06:40] <mvo> mdz: ogra asked if mknbi can move to main (it's a new dependency of ltsp, he already wrote a maininclusion report. his network is down I have him on the phone right now
[06:41] <mvo> it's FTBFS right now, but we have a fix
[06:45] <mdz> mvo: yes, it should be considered for main, but meanwhile I've relaxed the dependency to unblock him
[06:45] <mdz> I just uploaded ltsp
[06:46] <mvo> mdz: ogra says thanks you :)
[06:46] <hunger> Any chance of someone upgrading monotone to the debian version?
[06:47] <mdz> mvo: does he want new CD builds when it's ready?
[06:47] <infinity> seb128 : I'm going to go nap so we don't step on each others' toes.  I'll finish the mesa transition when I wake up, under the assumption that you've already uploaded all your trivial rebuilds.
[06:47] <infinity> seb128 : If anything you upload is FTBFS due to mesa/gl/glu stuff, don't worry about it, I'll fix it for you.
[06:48] <seb128> infinity: k, thank you. Have a good night :)
[06:48] <mvo> mdz: he hasn't figured how to put the edubuntu-server package on the cd yet, so it's probably best to wait a bit
[06:49] <mvo> mdz: his upstream network provider (deutsche telekom) has a failure in his area and everyone is offline right now (in his area)
[06:49] <infinity> seb128 : Just be sure to be working on fresh sources, since I've uploaded a few things in the last half hour.
[06:50] <infinity> seb128 : Not sure what, if anything, overlaps with stuff you need to rebuild.
[06:50] <seb128> will do, thanks
[06:55] <mjg59> jdub: Could you plesae forward me admin information for the laptop testing list?
[06:57] <elmo> seb128: done on the amd64 chroot
[06:57] <elmo> benc is using the i386 one atm
[06:58] <infinity> elmo : You may want to do it again after the next cron.daily, to make sure seb128's working on Packages and Sources that are in sync with my uploads before bed.
[06:58] <infinity> elmo : If you could be so kind.
[06:59] <seb128> elmo: amd64 one is fine for me, thanks
[07:00] <seb128> elmo: oh, and get you install libxine-dev and liblaunchpad-integration-dev here too please?
[07:00] <seb128> thank you
[07:01] <elmo> seb128: done
[07:01] <elmo> infinity: ok
[07:11] <mjg59> elmo: Could you sync hotkey-setup, please?
[07:24] <mdz> mvo: it should probably be added to the 'ship' line in STRUCTURE
[07:28] <mvo> mdz: ok, I'll tell him that
[07:28] <mvo> thanks