[05:31] <Skiessi> @fortune
[05:32] <Skiessi> !fortune
[05:32] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about fortune - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[05:32] <Skiessi> !futurama
[05:32] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about futurama - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[05:33] <Skiessi> @chuck
[05:34] <Skiessi> "In #ubuntu-offtopic, the following functions are enabled:" wth, only in #ubuntu-offtopic?
[05:36] <Skiessi> hi


[10:39] <Kano> hi, could somebody merge 2.6.30-rc6
[12:25] <Loco> Hi. I just upgraded to Ubuntu 9.04. Now my MP3's play verry fast most of the time. It does not matter what app I use to play them or what size or bitrate they were made at..Any help would be apreciated.
[12:26] <Nafallo> mode +c would be appreciated as well :-)
[16:03] <vertix> i am having a hard time with booting 8.10 because of mixed drive configuration. I have IDE and SCSI (sata) drive. BIOS is set for IDE to be 1st drive. But when I boot from livecd, it becomes 2nd drive and when i regenerate grub and put it on MBR, it thinks it is 2nd drive (hd1) for grub. So, when you boot from grub and escape to commmand line, you are seeing that / partition as drive 1, not 2
[16:04] <vertix> and so all other partitions are on the wrong drive and fsck exits with error, because it is trying to check the wrong partition type, because what it is checking is not on the right drive
[16:08] <vertix> basically, what it boils down to is this: looks like you need to change the drive order in bios before you boot from livecd. then, do grub>find /boot/grub/stage1, specify kernel and do a setup, but before you start booting it, you need to go to bios and change drive order, else you won't be able to boot because what grub/kernel think of drive/partition order when you were generating grub, is not the same as when you BOOT
[16:10] <vertix> btw, i am talking about the case when you already had 8.10 installed and are trying to fix the MBR that was wiped out by windows install after ubuntu, in which cause you already have your system, except your MBR needs fixing
[16:11] <vertix> and interesting thing is that even if you refer to drives via guid (in grub's menu.lst), it still does not help
[16:11] <mjg59> I suspect you're misdiagnosing this
[16:12] <mjg59> The kernel ignores bios drive order
[16:12] <vertix> could be
[16:12] <mjg59> Whereas grub pays attention to nothing other than bios drive order
[16:12] <mjg59> So either you don't get a kernel or you don't get a root filesystem
[16:12] <vertix> unfortunately that is not what i am seeing
[16:13] <mjg59> If you get a kernel then grub works fine and it's not a bios drive order issue
[16:13] <vertix> what i see is grub seeing the same drive order as in bios ONLY when you get a grub> prompt. after that, at some point, the drives are swapped and if you manage to boot, your drive order is going to be different than what bios says
[16:13] <mjg59> The kernel doesn't care about bios order
[16:14] <mjg59> If you see any output from Linux then your issue has nothing to do with that
[16:14] <vertix> well, but the thing is, i get an error at the point when root partition is attempted to be mounted
[16:14] <mjg59> The kernel sees all disks and will use the appropriate uuid
[16:15] <vertix> yes, i saw some of that, except in my case, my ide drive was addressed not as guid because it had old grub from old redhat and i don't recall it being addressed as guid, but lemme see here
[16:19] <vertix> well, what i am seeing is menu.lst is not addressing the ide drive as guid. i don't remember exactly now, but it could be that i just copied the grub sections from ide drive (where redhat is installed) to the sata drive (where ubuntu is installed, just to be able to boot any one of them. could this cause some problem?
[16:20] <mjg59> menu.ls tis only parsed by grub
[16:20] <vertix> btw, do you know at what exact point in the boot sequence the grub's device.map goes into effect?
[16:20] <mjg59> In grub
[16:20] <mjg59> If grub can see your kernel then device.map is fine
[16:21] <vertix> grub CAN see my kernel, but it is on the wrong drive. becasue when that grub was generated, the drive order was different. What i am seeing is this:
[16:22] <vertix> when you boot and escape from grub, the drive order is the same as bios
[16:22] <vertix> but at some point in booting sequence, drive order is swapped, and if you manage to boot, then what bios says as drive 1, actually becomes drive 2
[16:22] <vertix> so, at some point, the drive switching happens
[16:23] <vertix> the question is exactly when and why?
[16:23] <mjg59> I have no idea what you mean
[16:23] <mjg59> The kernel doesn't use the BIOS drive order
[16:23] <mjg59> There's no swapping
[16:24] <mjg59> Kernel drive order has never had anything to do with BIOS drive order
[16:24] <vertix> well, but this is not what i am seeing
[16:24] <mjg59> So 0x80 may end up has hdc
[16:24] <vertix> there IS swapping and it is even discussed in GNU's grub documentation somewhere
[16:24] <mjg59> Or sdb
[16:24] <mjg59> Or whatever
[16:25] <mjg59> But if grub is reading the kernel then BIOS drive order is entirely not what you are having a problem with
[16:25] <vertix> you see, grub comes up from MBR of the drive that is set to be drive 1 in bios, doesn't it?
[16:25] <mjg59> Either grub is reading the wrong configuration file or your uuid entry in the grub config is wrong
[16:25] <mjg59> No
[16:25] <vertix> or "active partition"
[16:25] <mjg59> grub is launched from whatever partition the BIOS boots
[16:25] <vertix> correct
[16:25] <mjg59> The rules for that depend on the BIOS
[16:26] <vertix> yep
[16:26] <mjg59> grub then reads stage 1.5 and stage 2 off the disk
[16:26] <mjg59> If that works then grub and the bios agree on drive ordering
[16:26] <mjg59> Which means devices.map is correct
[16:27] <vertix> yep, i am asking about that device.map. at what point that device.map is being looked upon or takes effect in boot sequence?
[16:28] <mjg59> Neve
[16:28] <mjg59> r
[16:28] <mjg59> It's only read when grub is being installed into the boot sector
[16:28] <vertix> assume my 1st drive (in bios is ide), 2nd drive is sata. after kernel comes up, the sata drive shows as sda, not sdb, and ide shows as sdb. why?
[16:28] <vertix> oh, i see
[16:28] <mjg59> Because the kernel enumerates in PCI order, not BIOS order
[16:29] <vertix> so, i need to change the drive order in .map file and THEN regenerate the grub?
[16:29] <mjg59> No
[16:29] <vertix> cause what i am seeing is drives swapping around
[16:29] <mjg59> If grub is running then devices.map is correct
[16:29] <mjg59> The drives are *not* swapping
[16:29] <mjg59> BIOS order has nothing to do with kernel order
[16:30] <mjg59> You can't make them consistent
[16:30] <vertix> then i don't follow it? why do i see different drive order when just starting to boot and when i am booted?
[16:30] <mjg59> You don't
[16:30] <soren> Well, that's exactly *because* BIOS and kernel disk ordering are completely unrelated.
[16:31] <mjg59> Right
[16:31] <mjg59> You can't change the BIOS order
[16:31] <mjg59> And you can't change the kernel order
[16:31] <mjg59> devices.map exists just to tell grub how to get from kernel order (which it can read) to BIOS order (which it can't)
[16:33] <vertix> ok, assume i start booting. i escape from grub and do grub> find /boot/grub/stage1
[16:33] <Nafallo> ehrm. my laptop have two devices in their... I must have installed with the external plugged in :-P
[16:33] <Nafallo> s/eir/ere/
[16:33] <vertix> what I am seeing is stage 1 is not on the same drive as when i was booted from live cd and generated the mbr
[16:34] <mjg59> That's not what you were saying
[16:34] <mjg59> It's helpful if you explain your problem rather than what you think your problem is
[16:34] <mjg59> So grub is reading the wrong config file?
[16:35] <vertix> mjg59, basically, my question is simple: how do i make it boot? are you saying that when i generated grub, i should have done something different?
[16:35] <mjg59> You're not saying what's going wrong
[16:35] <vertix> kernel can not mount root partition because it is on the wrong drive
[16:36] <vertix> and when it does fsck, it says one of partitions is bad, because again, it is looking at the wrong drive
[16:36] <vertix> could it be because of initrd?
[16:36] <mjg59> If the kernel is booting then your problem is unrelated to grub
[16:36] <vertix> you see, i was able to get it booting at some point
[16:36] <mjg59> It could be the initrd
[16:36] <vertix> kernel is not booting. it can not, because it can not mount the /
[16:37] <mjg59> If you manage to end up with an initrd that doesn't contain drivers for your filesystem then you'll see that
[16:37] <mjg59> If the kernel didn't boot then you wouldn't get that message
[16:37] <mjg59> The kernel has loaded. It's executed. The initrd has then failed.
[16:38] <mjg59> eAnyway. 1:40AM here, so I'm sleeping.
[16:39] <vertix> well, the boot sequence started. because grub was told the actual correct root partition, but when boot process tried to mount /, it complained. it could be that driver for sata was not loaded. i don't argue that
[16:39] <vertix> k, thanx for your time
[17:00] <pong> Hi
[22:16] <vertix> my box got infected with rootkit and it looks like it progressed pretty far and now my cdrom drive does not work as advertised
[22:17] <vertix> looks like bios is infected and when i insert the rw+ disk into it, it starts doing something with the disk and, after a while, reboots the box
[22:18] <vertix> but when i insert the blank CD, then I see the message from ubuntu saying: blank disk is inserted
[22:18] <ikonia> how is this anything to do with a kernal ?
[22:18] <vertix> I am not sure it is a good idea to write anything to that disk, cause there is no guarantee that it is not going to add some viruses to the image
[22:19] <ikonia> this is a.) nothing to do with ubuntu-kernel b.) interesting to hear as you said you couldn't boot ubuntu
[22:19] <vertix> well, I am curious if someone knows that in case bios is infected, will it percolate to kernel?
[22:19] <ikonia> nothing to do with ubuntu-kernel
[22:19] <vertix> ikonia, why are you following me around and provoking some ugly stuff?
[22:19] <vertix> what does it have to do with YOU?
[22:19] <vertix> what is YOUR problem?
[22:19] <ikonia> I'm not following you, I was here in this channel when you joined, please read the /topic
[22:20] <vertix> and I know enough about kernel level issue to see what does it have to do with what
[22:20] <vertix> Yes, you ARE following me
[22:20] <vertix> here, than on #linux
[22:20] <vertix> what is that you want froim me?
[22:20] <ikonia> I was in this channel before you joined as I was in ##linux before you joined also
[22:20] <vertix> What is this ugly spying trip you are involved in?
[22:21] <ikonia> vertix: if your bios is infected with a virus is nothing to do with #ubuntu-kernel, plus I can't see how this is anything to do with ubuntu as you explained you can't boot ubuntu
[22:21] <vertix> ikonia, I am not interested in your opinions
[22:21] <ikonia> vertix: the topic is "ubuntu kernel development only"
[22:21] <vertix> you can just do all other exciting things you normally do
[22:21] <ikonia> please check the /topic
[22:22] <vertix> ikonia, one more time: I am not interested in YOUR opinion? Is that clear enough?
[22:22] <vertix> I have seen one of your opinions and it is totally off the wall
[22:22] <ikonia> vertix: one more time - respect the channels topic
[22:22] <LjL> vertix: please stay on topic.
[22:22] <vertix> I never had a single chance to work
[22:22] <vertix> and I would have to spend half a day doing the most stupid thing in the world
[22:23] <vertix> so, could you stay away from me and mind your own business?
[22:23] <ikonia> thats not our problem, follow the channels topic, please.
[22:23] <vertix> the topic is this:
[22:23] <ikonia> the topic is displayed in /topic
[22:23] <vertix> can virus potentially affect the cdrom drivers
[22:23] <vertix> kernel level
[22:23] <LjL> No, the topic is: "KERNEL BUG DAY 12-May-2009 | Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | Latest news: Released 2.6.28 kernel for Jaunty/9.04. | Kernel git trees: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git | Latest kernel upload: 2.6.28-12.43 based on <IP_ADDRESS> final"
[22:24] <vertix> k, I see, thanx anyway, I guess you have better things to do in your life
[22:24] <ikonia> thanks,


[00:28] <CarlFK> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-france-theresa-may-deal-nathalie-loiseau-cat-a8828026.html
[00:28] <CarlFK> France’s EU minister names her cat ‘Brexit’ because ‘he meows loudly to be let out but won’t go through the door’
[00:48] <tinoco> .
[04:46] <CarlFK> whoops, this is not https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/IRC :p
[08:16] <lag> Does anyone know how this images is created?
[08:16] <lag>   http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/18.04.2/release/ubuntu-18.04.2-server-arm64.iso
[08:17] <lag> There is lots of documentation regarding how to build a customised Ubuntu ISO for x86_64 (using ISOLINUX), but none for ARM64
[08:17] <lag> Does anyone know of a working `mkisofs` command that works for the ISO image above?
[08:18] <lag> .. or where the scripts that create this image reside?
[08:18] <mwhudson> lag: the code is all in debian-cd somewhere
[08:18] <lag> mwhudson: Is that a package?
[08:19] <mwhudson> no, it's a branch
[08:19] <mwhudson> this one https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu
[08:19] <alkisg> arm boxes have cds?! :)
[08:19] <lag> alkisg: Sure, why wouldn't they?
[08:20] <lag> alkisg: Also flashing these images onto USB flash drives and SD cards work
[08:20] <alkisg> I've only seen raspberries and the like, so no idea, I didn't imagine they'd have
[08:20] <mwhudson> fair warning, this code is not really designed for third party use
[08:20] <mwhudson> sadly
[08:20] <mwhudson> alkisg: x86_64 boxes have cds !? :)
[08:20] <mwhudson> none of mine do...
[08:20] <alkisg> For usb/sd cards, I thought the images were .img
[08:21] <alkisg> I.e. no need for hybrid .isos with workarounds etc
[08:22] <alkisg> BIOS/UEFI do have code to boot from El-torito cds, I didn't know arm firmware has that code too
[08:28] <lag> alkisg: You have led a sheltered life :D
[08:28] <alkisg> :D
[08:28] <lag> alkisg: There is more to (ARM) life than RPi
[08:29]  * alkisg would like to get sheltered from rpi as well, but has to support it in a couple of projects...
[08:30] <lag> alkisg: I'm not saying it a bad platform - just that there are so many more (better) platforms out there
[08:32] <alkisg> +1. Or maybe +1000. :D
[10:03] <lag> Does anyone know a bit about ISO files?
[10:04] <lag> alkisg: You seemed pretty knowledgable in that area (/me has lived a sheltered (ISO) life)
[10:04] <lag> I have 2 files - 1 made by Canonical, 1 by me:
[10:04] <lag>   https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/btdkvtnJDs/
[10:04] <lag> They look the same (should be ISO9660), but when they're flashed, the partition tables look totally different
[10:05] <lag> Canonical: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/btdkvtnJDs/
[10:05] <lag> Whoops - ignore that
[10:05] <lag> Canonical: https://i.imgur.com/MldCw7i.png
[10:05] <lag> Mine: https://i.imgur.com/uIbyFAJ.png
[10:05] <lag> What gives?
[10:07] <lag> CMD: xorriso -as mkisofs -r -checksum_algorithm_iso md5,sha1 -V "Bionic: AArch64 Laptops" -o laptops-ubuntu-bionic.iso -J -l -c boot/boot.cat -partition_offset 16 -append_partition 2 0xef CDDIR/boot/grub/efi.img -e boot/grub/efi.img -no-emul-boot CDDIR
[10:14] <rbasak> Is there a good answer to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2019-March/007820.html ?
[10:14] <rbasak> (Ctrl-C during release upgrade)
[10:14] <rbasak> I would apt -f install and fix anything up manually, or better redeploy to a new release and not do a release upgrade in the first place.
[10:15] <rbasak> I'm not sure if there's anything better that could be recommended.
[10:25] <alkisg> lag: sorry, I haven't studied the hybrid .iso internals recently, I don't know that much. I did find some related pages on the internet about it in the past, explaining both ubuntu's and fedora's methods, but it was so long ago that I don't remember anything to help you.
[10:28] <mwhudson> rbasak: yeah if dpkg --configure -a and apt install -f and friends don't fix it, either you're in for a lot of fiddling or should just start again i think
[10:29] <rbasak> mwhudson: I'm wondering: is that acceptable, or a bug that we don't have a better option?
[10:29] <mwhudson> rbasak: we should probably block C-c i guess...
[10:30] <mwhudson> i don't know, i guess apt install -f should really fix things and any way it doesn't would pedantically be a packaging bug?
[10:32] <alkisg> Maybe there's also "power loss recovery" involved, not just ctrl+c...
[10:33] <rbasak> In theory all maintainer scripts are idempotent and so apt install -f should always be able to fix things.
[10:33] <rbasak> But in practice do-release-upgrade exists instead of apt; doesn't that fix things up after apt is finished?
[10:33] <rbasak> So perhaps do-release-upgrade needs a "resume" entry point.
[11:01] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks for merging support for the new "Commands-*" indexfiles to LP. I did a quick test on disco and command-not-found there seems to be working fine and using the data from the archive.ubuntu.com indexfiles now instead of the old command-not-found-data package. so yay!
[11:03] <cjwatson> Excellent
[11:10] <xnox> whoop whoop
[11:15] <juliank> awesome!
[13:37] <rbalint> juliank, found the bug why u-u autopkgtest fails in disco when upgrading cosmic
[13:38] <juliank> :)
[13:38] <rbalint> i'm rather :-\, will push the fix after lunch
[14:01] <tseliot> doko: things should be fine now that nvidia is finally in restricted (rather than in multiverse)
[14:06] <ricotz> tseliot, without transitionals for i386 I don't see this properly working
[14:07] <ricotz> and libnvidia-common-410 should be arch all
[14:08] <tseliot> ricotz: let me check
[14:13] <tseliot> ricotz: this should do it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mbyPR5djWn/
[14:17] <ricotz> tseliot, this looks good
[14:19] <tseliot> good
[14:48] <bdmurray> Is command-not-found information now on Ubuntu mirrors?
[15:23] <bdmurray> seb128: does gnome-initial-setup still ask about automatic crash reporting?
[15:23] <seb128> bdmurray, it never did on Ubuntu I think
[15:24] <seb128> bdmurray, I don't think it knows how to talk to apport?
[15:24] <bdmurray> seb128: I thought didier did something about that a while ago
[15:24] <seb128> gnome-control-center yes
[15:24] <seb128> initial setup no
[15:25] <bdmurray> Ah, okay
[17:26] <rbalint> seb128, juliank: I pushed the converted repo, it matches usd imports (ignoring .bzr-builddeb) https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/software-properties/+git/software-properties
[17:27] <rbalint> tomorrow we can switch the default repo on lp and i push a pointer on top of the bzr repos
[17:27] <rbalint> and import the few dscs missing from trusty/precise
[17:28] <juliank> rbalint: Awesome!
[17:29] <seb128> rbalint, great, thx
[17:30] <juliank> then I'll rebase the PackageKit patch queue from Debian on top of the matching Ubuntu tag
[17:30] <juliank> and then I'll rebase again on top of ubuntu/master
[17:30] <juliank> It
[17:30] <juliank> It will be fun
[17:36] <rbalint> juliank, cool!
[17:36] <rbalint> juliank, i see there used to be a git repository on alioth but it is not migrated
[17:37] <rbalint> (to salsa)
[17:37] <rbalint> was there anything useful or i should not care about it?
[17:39] <rbalint> juliank, also are you ok with the git repo scheme? Debian uses quilt
[17:39] <juliank> rbalint: I have a git repo on salsa at https://salsa.debian.org/pkgutopia-team/software-properties, but it imports the ubuntu tarballs
[17:39] <juliank> rbalint: Yeah, it's fine. What I do in Debian is import the ubuntu .tar.xz and as an .orig.tar.xz, and then use 3.0 (quilt), so I can ship the same tarball
[17:40] <juliank> I'll probably merge in the Ubuntu git branches into the Debian branches soon, though
[17:40] <rbalint> juliank, ok, ack
[17:40] <juliank> instead of continuing to import tarballs :)
[17:41] <rbalint> juliank, i'm transitioning to this upstream/latest scheme, too, with my packages
[18:54] <coreycb> bdmurray: hello, would you be able to take a look at keystone in the cosmic unapproved queue? this version would replace the current version that is in cosmic-proposed (2:14.0.1-0ubuntu2).
[21:32] <tjaalton> LocutusOfBorg: hi, I have three patches for llvm/clang, needed by intel's "NEO" opencl compute runtime. I'll test the build tomorrow and would like to get them in disco
[21:33] <tjaalton> LocutusOfBorg: all are in llvm master, but not on llvm-8
[23:05] <coreycb> bdmurray: i added the additional test details to bug 1815126
[23:07] <bdmurray> coreycb: cool, thanks
[23:07] <coreycb> bdmurray: np thank you
[23:21] <teward> bdmurray: thanks for accepting parted to proposed for 1820090 :)


[12:06] <Chris_in_the_uk> hi, can someone help me set up screen - so i can ssh into my server then close the terminal and come back to it later?
[12:13] <neuralis> Chris_in_the_uk: that's a question for #ubuntu, and there's nothing to setup past installing the 'screen' package.
[12:13] <Chris_in_the_uk> neuralis: cheers
[12:55] <[g2] > first off, congrats on the recent AMD64 Sever release
[12:57] <[g2] > secondly, I'm thinking about a possible XScale server release
[01:33] <stinkydave> has anyone had any luck getting asterisk 1.2 to run on ubuntu
[10:20] <spike> 'morning
[10:21] <fabbione> morning guys
[10:24] <spike> cool
[05:01] <troy> moin


[00:06] <JanC> AlanBell: yeah, it got in late, but lots of people were beta-testing it by then (making it the default earlier would have been better though)
[00:11] <JanC> although it's difficult to say if they did a systematic test of all locales  ☺
[00:24] <jbicha> hmm, Gnome Magnifier doesn't work for me
[02:29] <charlie-tca> AlanBell: thank you for the write-up on making unity work in virtualbox! That is a great article
 charlie-tca, I did a screen reader install and it's really broken. it reads frm_liveinstaller, btn_forward, ... all the symbolic names of the widgets.
[16:01] <maco> it was reading "go forward button" before...
[16:02] <maco> i havent figured out yet how to make it say "install button" but i got instructions from ev for using accerciser, so that might be tonight
[16:05] <maco> jibel: which daily was this on?
[16:09] <charlie-tca> today
[16:09] <charlie-tca> We are smoke testing the final candidates
[16:21] <maco> thats a regression from a week ago
[16:23] <charlie-tca> We can't really win, huh?
[16:23] <Pendulum> :(
[16:24] <maco> im checking the revision history
[16:24] <charlie-tca> jibel made another comment -
 charlie-tca, technically that's because ubiquity routinely set the atk_name of the widget to the value taken from the glade file. I think that's used to test ubiquity and be independant of the language but that breaks the a11y devices.
[16:24] <charlie-tca> does that help?
[16:25] <jibel> maco, I'm testing again I tested the right build.
[16:26] <charlie-tca> Thanks, jibel
[16:26] <charlie-tca> We do keep trying ...
[16:26] <jibel> s/again/again to ensure/
[16:27] <Pendulum> is the release team aware of the issues?
[16:27] <maco> i dont know. i dont see any changes that look relevant
[16:28] <maco> i dont think there's a chance of this being good in natty. too close to release :-/
[16:29] <Pendulum> if we have 2 installers in a row borked (since Maverick is borked), it is not good :-/
[16:29] <maco> jibel: when you were doing it, do you remember what the partition page was like? was that also just widget names?
[16:30] <Pendulum> I'm just bringing up that it might be a good time to poke skaet since they're doing the release meeting right now
[16:30] <maco> because as of the 19th or 20th, that shouldve read labels next to the radio buttons
[16:30] <jibel> maco, that's what I'm checking, if it's ubiquity 2.6.5 or earlier. I'm testing so many image that I could have done a mistake. I'm double-checking.
[16:30] <maco> ok
[16:31] <maco> 2.6.6 is the one where the radio buttons should be correct
[16:32] <charlie-tca> yes, release team is aware
[16:32] <maco> (or maybe 2.6.7? i dont think "import atk" is actually needed since im pretty sure its automatic with gtk, but if it is...then 2.6.7 is the one that has the "import atk" line)
[16:34] <charlie-tca> hm, is it possible for the blind user to do the install with the names being given?
[16:34] <charlie-tca> Last orca install I did, I picked auto-login, and the screen-reader started with the desktop. It goes right to classic-desktop now.
[16:48] <jibel> maco, I confirm the problem with ubiquity 2.6.9
[16:49] <jibel> first there is bug 749702
[16:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 749702 in ubiquity ""Try Ubuntu" screen-reads as "Try $RELEASE"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749702
[16:49] <jibel> then the window name of ubiquity reads live_installer
[16:50] <maco> i wonder if this is related to the translation changes they made the last few days...
[16:50] <jibel> maco, and all the buttons/radio buttons/checkbox reads the label then a smybolic name like
[16:50] <maco> yeah i know they read the symbolic name after. i couldnt make it stop doing that. but the label being read *at all* is the important bit
[16:50] <jibel> replace_partition, reuse_partition, custom_partition, timezone_city_entry, ...
[16:50] <maco> there were changes to translation templates the last few days. i wonder if thats why variables are being read now
[16:51] <jibel> maco, another thing, this the "install now" button reads forward
[16:52] <maco> yes i know that
[16:52] <maco> thats the one i saw saying above i was attempting to sort
[16:53] <jibel> maco, ok so nothing new :-)
[16:53] <maco> s/saw/was/
[16:57] <jibel> maco, the weird name after the label is caused by this code in ubiquity/frontend/gtk_ui.py
[16:57] <jibel>             widget.set_name(name)
[16:57] <jibel>             atk_desc = widget.get_accessible()
[16:57] <jibel>             atk_desc.set_name(name)
[16:57] <jibel> it calls it routinely and set the id of the object from the glade file to the atk name
[16:59] <maco> i wondered what that was doing...
[17:00] <maco> that was added in december
[17:00] <maco> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/revision/4461
[17:36] <maco> jibel: im guessing ev thought that was better-than-nothing
[17:37] <maco> if we remove it, it'd probably stop the say-label-then-var thing, but itd probably also stop having anything said *at all* for most stuff :-/
[18:49] <AlanBell> bug 769104
[18:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 769104 in onboard "default layout always loaded due to gconf key handling error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769104
[18:50] <AlanBell> I will fix that one, but not going to jump up and down and stamp my feet to get it into Natty pre-release
[19:00] <JanC> it can go in the day after release...
[19:00] <JanC> or so
[19:00] <JanC> or next week if that's still allowed
[19:04] <maco> could get a 0-day sru
[19:06] <AlanBell> yeah, got to fix it first
[19:09] <AlanBell> and it will expose the fact that I didn't recolour the "Full" keyboard layout so I have to do that too
[20:18] <AlanBell> and the Full-Dark layout which is white text on dark keycaps
[20:57] <AlanBell> and it is all going to be a 0day SRU now
[23:16] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/onboardfulldark.png is the reversed colour layout as it stands today
[23:16] <AlanBell> although a bug prevents it from actually being available
[23:16] <AlanBell> curious what charlie-tca and others think of it


[03:24] <iWolf> Sorry
[03:24] <iWolf> Alll of them are registered!
[04:21] <kosmic> im getting segfaults in libc-2.10.1.so
[04:22] <kosmic> definitely introduced in KKK
[04:25] <MsMaco> ...might not want to use that abbreviation
[04:27] <iWolf> Really
[04:27] <iWolf> Please post a bug
[04:33] <kosmic> i'll leave that to others >;)
[04:34] <kosmic> found it on google, same versions so i cant be the only one
[04:39] <dtchen> kosmic: we need a lot more detail
[05:26] <quickvfr1> I can boot to the splash with the moving white line then the screen blinks black, goes back to the splash and loops.  Any ideas?
[05:28] <micahg1> check in #ubuntu for support
[12:38] <mantiena> Hi all
[12:38] <Ioneye> Hello.
[12:41] <mantiena> I've noticed lots of identifical bugreports about jaunty->karmic upgrading problems when users have ttf-mscorefonts-installer, maybe someone from Ubuntu developers can assign bug #464422 to the right person and increase importance ? Every day since karmic release about 10 identifical bugs are reported about this problem
[12:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 464422 in baltix "fail to complete upgrade jaunty > karmic   ttf-mscorefonts-installer" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/464422
[12:42] <mantiena> This problem appears because ttf-mscorefonts-installer always tries to download fonts from internet servers without asking if user wants to do this and returns an error if there are no access to the fonts download locations
[12:44] <mantiena> Afail the Summary of that bug should be changed to: "ttf-mscorefonts-installer shouldn't return an error if there are no access to corefonts download servers"
[12:44] <mantiena> I think ttf-mscorefonts-installer should display a dialog with buttons "Try again" and "Download later" (run dpkg-reconfigure ttf-mscorefonts-installer when you will have internet connection).
[12:51] <ikt> if someone had a working wi-fi card w/propreitary driver in use, did a clean install and ubuntu see's the card but doesn't recognise the appropriate driver for it, is that a regression?
[14:57] <goodnight> !bug 453579
[16:48] <kklimonda> is there a master bug for "sound problems" related to running 2.6.28 kernel on 9.10?
[16:49] <MsMaco> kklimonda: no, just been telling people how to fix it then letting them close them
[19:06] <mjw> I've just upgraded to 9.10 and now nm-applet crashes on startup if ath5k is loaded. Full information is here https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/465849/  .... has anyone experienced this?
[19:06] <ubot4> mjw: Error: This bug is private
[19:07] <mjw> Yeah... I'm not sure how to change this since apport generated and reported it.
[19:08] <mjw> It's a bit of a show stopper since I now have no network connectivity :(
[19:14] <ikt> mjw: you need to click the little edit button in the top right next to 'this report is private'
[19:14] <ikt> to set it to public
[19:16] <mjw> ikt; that's great thanks
[19:16] <ikt> :)
[19:16] <maxb> Hmm, I'm connected using ath5k right now
[19:18] <mjw> I'm not sure if I have something weird in my gconf that is causing this to barf somehow
[19:19] <micahg> wow, I don't even have access to that bug...the retracer must be looking at it now
[19:19] <mjw> maxb is ath5k working well for you? I had to revert back to ath_pci in 9.04  since ath5k at that point was giving me some very large ping times to my access point
[19:20] <micahg> mjw: do you have the backports installed?
[19:20] <micahg>  linux-backports-modules-wireless-karmic-generic
[19:21] <mjw> micahg; I'm not sure if the core dump contains a load of my wireless access point passwords
[19:21] <mjw> micahg; nope... I might try that when I reboot back into ubuntu in a bit... thanks for the tip on that one.
[19:22] <micahg> well, you generally don't want to make a private bug public unless the retracer has looked at it and you're sure there is no private data in attachments
[19:22] <mjw> micahg; yeah... that is what I'm unsure about at the moment
[19:23] <micahg> try the backports, it almost fixed ath9k for me
[19:23] <mjw> micahg; this is with 9.10 right?
[19:23] <micahg> yes
[19:23] <mjw> ok; thanks
[19:27] <maxb> mjw: Well, it all depends on the hardware, I think.
[19:27] <maxb> On my AAO, ath5k has been decent since intrepid+lbm
[19:28] <maxb> On my ThinkPad T40p, ath5k has *never* worked
[19:28] <mjw> I'm on a lenovo T61
[19:29] <mjw> ath5k phy0: Atheros AR5414 chip found (MAC: 0xa3, PHY: 0x61)
[19:39] <mjw> ok micahg, I'll give that a go... speak soon!
[20:00] <BUGabundo> bouas
[20:24] <Chorca> quick question.. anyone know what package I should report auto-dimming of a laptop screen against?
[20:26] <BUGabundo> Chorca: gnome?
[20:26] <BUGabundo> gnome-power-manager
[20:27] <Chorca> kay.. was thinking it was that but couldn't find any mention in the wiki. I'll file it against that.
[20:58] <iWolf[Ubuntu]> I Have To Restart Xchat [Amsg]
[21:51] <CarlFK> "Hardware Drivers" dialog says "No propriety drivers are in use on this system." but the list shows nvidia, and at the bottom "driver is activated and currently in use."  http://dev.personnelware.com/carl/a/pdrv1.png
[21:52] <CarlFK> I have not installed any propriety drivers. I did install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau - before that the dialog did not show any drivers.
[21:52] <CarlFK> what should I bug?
[21:57] <greg-g> CarlFK: the "jockey" source package
[21:57] <greg-g> "ubuntu-bug jockey-gtk" in the command line to have apport help out in reporting
[22:00] <CarlFK> greg-g: got it - thanks
[22:05] <mastermolch> i did a bug report today and i wonder it is correct this way. maybe additional information are needed? it is bug 469475
[22:05] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 469475 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-180 "3 Screens with 2 NVIDIA graphics cards and Ubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/469475
[22:30] <nstc> I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but the e-mail I was sent to confirm the OpenPGP key I entered trying to sign the code of conduct doesn't seem to want to decrypt. I enter the encryption key given to me, but Evolution says it's not the right one. Am I being stupid?
[22:34] <micahg> nstc: you can try #ubuntu for support
[22:35] <nstc> thanks :)
[22:42] <menace__> Hi, I wonder if I can get some help finding out if I need to file a bug report about a problem I'm having with Ubuntu?
[22:44] <JanC> if there is a bug then most likely you need to report it (or confirm it, if someone else reported it before you)
[22:45] <menace__> It relates to what looks like an endless loop while gdm is starting up.
[22:47] <JanC> that does sound like a bug  ☺
[22:47] <iWolf> in #ubuntu-bugs-announce
[22:49] <menace__> Also, I don't appear to have any virtual text consoles.
[22:49] <iWolf> Sorry,
[22:49] <iWolf> Failed join command
[22:49] <iWolf> :P
[23:01] <menace__> Okay, well I think I'll try to open up a bug report at launchpad.


[05:29] <SamNMJ> Hey.
[06:35] <adom> Hey.
[09:28] <InHisName> Morning
[09:28] <InHisName> adom: hay is for horses
[10:19] <JonathanD> Morning.
[10:59] <rmg51> Morning


[14:46] <OvenWerks> MauroGaspari[m]: known issue with kernel: snd_fireworks module will not load. (maybe other alsa firewire modules) However, ffado modules continue to both work and outperform alsa modules for any device :)
[14:47] <OvenWerks> snd_fireworks does load and work for 20.04
[15:37] <MauroGaspari[m]> <OvenWerks "Mauro Gaspari: known issue with "> Not sure if it is the same issue. What happens to me is system gets stuck after grub. Not every time, about 50% of the times. rebooting will allow me to go past that eventually. Only happens with AMD system (my desktop). Does not happen with my Intel + Nvidia system (laptop). Seems to be the same with 20.10 and 21.04.
[15:39] <MauroGaspari[m]> I have not reported yet because did not have the time to figure out the exact logs not even sure if those can be captured.
[15:43] <Eickmeyer> 100% a kernel regression. >_<
[15:43] <Eickmeyer> Sadly, I doubt we'll see the kernel developers do anything about it.
[15:45] <MauroGaspari[m]> Eickmeyer: also seems not to be any issue when I use rolling distros, probably was already fixed. Tried tumbleweed, Manjaro (both generic and realtime kernels) and fedora. no issues.
[15:45] <MauroGaspari[m]> so, no big deal, can live with that until it goes away 🙂
[15:47] <MauroGaspari[m]> Short of that, 21.04 is FANTASTIC. tested thoroughly Ubuntu Studio tools on Ubuntu Budgie 21.04. And also on Ubuntu Studio 21.04. Those plasma improvements ... 😍😍😍🤩🤩🤩 , The breeze twilight, new app launcher, OMG . It's awesome RikMills Eickmeyer
[15:48] <RikMills> and it's only the beta :)
[15:49] <RikMills> plasma beta that is
[15:49] <MauroGaspari[m]> I tried to mess with themes, applets, Latte Dock. Nope. No crashes of Plasma. And the theming seems to be very well done overall.
[15:51] <MauroGaspari[m]> only one thing but probably I am just a Plasma noob. There are a couple of apps such as Remmina (GTK app I believe). Refuses to behave like I cannot right click on the application top bar to move it to other desktops etc. And have not found a way yet on plasma to force it or add a system window frame.
[15:51] <MauroGaspari[m]> I do not have an older install so cannot verify if it is an issue on older plasma versions as well.
[15:52] <Eickmeyer> MauroGaspari[m]: There should still be an application icon present?
[15:53] <RikMills> I'll try to remember to look at that. probably not today though ;)
[15:54] <RikMills> yeah, should be able to move via the icon
[15:54] <Eickmeyer> Oh! I just tried a GTK headerbar app and you're right! There's no way to move it to another desktop! However, right-clicking on the icon in the task manager does the trick and gives you the option.
[15:55] <OvenWerks> Gnome's messing with the window decorations is just wrong.
[15:56] <OvenWerks> The is for the DE not the application
[15:57]  * RikMills meant the taskbar icon
[15:59] <MauroGaspari[m]> > * <@freenode_RikMills:matrix.org> meant the taskbar icon
[15:59] <MauroGaspari[m]> ahhhhhhhhhhh.... told you.. I am just a Plasma Padawan . This works even from the Latte Dock
[16:00] <MauroGaspari[m]> but unable to do that from the top app window frame. which might be an issue for someone. I think also Evolution does that. I'd call it a minor papercut
[16:02] <MauroGaspari[m]> <OvenWerks "The is for the DE not the applic"> totally agree, that is why I was looking if there was a kwin trick where I could force those specific apps to replace or add a system window frame. 😀
[16:10] <OvenWerks> MauroGaspari[m]: if I go to settings-> Application Style->Gnome/gtk application style and hit preview... it shows a window with proper window decorations... but the real gnome application does not follow, this is decptive
[16:15] <MauroGaspari[m]> <OvenWerks "Mauro Gaspari: if I go to settin"> yeah, I tried that, thanks. Still no controls right clicking on window frame. Interesting because I believe the same works with QT applications GTK DEs
[16:17] <MauroGaspari[m]> And again, guys, don't get me wrong. I am not complaining. I know it is probably one of those QT vs GTK issues. It's all good. For me, even XFCE is quite nice haha
[16:21] <MauroGaspari[m]> > <@freenode_OvenWerks:matrix.org> Mauro Gaspari: if I go to settings-> Application Style->Gnome/gtk application style and hit preview... it shows a window with proper window decorations... but the real gnome application does not follow, this is decptive
[16:21] <MauroGaspari[m]>  * yeah, I tried that, thanks. Still no controls right clicking on window frame. Interesting because I believe the same works with QT applications on GTK DEs
[16:26] <OvenWerks> So settings->kwin scripts->force decorations for GTK+ 3
[16:26] <OvenWerks> This does nto seem to work either (though I think it did at one time)
[16:30] <OvenWerks> Ah, it says "for a list of common GTK+3 applications" which means not all. It appears it has to be done on an application basis? no way of detecting this aberrant behaviour?
[16:49] <MauroGaspari[m]> OvenWerks: so this is funny. On telegram desktop, there is an option in the application, to use native window decorations. that fixes the issue.
[16:49] <MauroGaspari[m]> On Remmina, I find no such configuration to change. And i noted no matter what, I cannot make it work from the window frame.... but... if I open the options. options of remmina, is using plasma decorations and I can move that one to another desktop clicking on its window frame 😆😆 what a mess
[16:51] <RikMills> GTK/Gnome do not care a FFAARD about their things working on other DEs
[16:51] <OvenWerks> RikMills: yes, I know.
[16:52] <OvenWerks> They do not seem to care about their own stuff working correctly either.
[16:52] <RikMills> lol
[16:53] <OvenWerks> Their menu setup has been broken since the begining of freedesktop
[16:53] <OvenWerks> Considering the fix is one line....
[16:54] <MauroGaspari[m]> taking a mental note to always try to replace GTK apps with QT ones when using plasma. Time to have a look at KRDC lol
[16:55] <OvenWerks> The fix for the titlebar issue is to rewrite one of the gtk+3 libs and set it to replaces...
[16:55] <OvenWerks> if only I had the time...
[16:56] <MauroGaspari[m]> GTK4 for the fix?
[16:56] <OvenWerks> unlikely
[16:58] <OvenWerks> Gnome has chosen this idea going forward and certainly for kiosk/phone like use, which is probably most computer users, probably the right thing.
[16:59] <OvenWerks> What is not right is not making it work either way.
[17:00] <OvenWerks> It should not be that hard (firefox does it) to have both a menu bar or hide it.
[17:03] <MauroGaspari[m]> OvenWerks: it is quite... annoying. Good news though, Plasma in Ubuntu Studio 21.04 is super fast. It's unbelievable the progress KDE has made in the last few years.
[17:53] <OvenWerks> I was able to at least get the colour of the gtk title bar to be the same as the plasma titlebar
[18:10] <Eickmeyer> It should just pick-up whatever GTK theme is being used.
[18:11] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: which theme though? There seems to be a possible mix of themes all the way through
[18:11] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: The ISO uses Materia by default.
[18:12] <OvenWerks> There is a global theme, plasma style... ok both the same
[18:12] <OvenWerks> then there is application style
[18:12] <Eickmeyer> Global theme sets *EVERYTHING* except GTK.
[18:13] <Eickmeyer> The Global theme for us is Ubuntu Studio, which is just a symlink/reconfig of Materia.
[18:13] <Eickmeyer> Plasma style is the panel, desktop, etc. Application style is the applications themselves.
[18:14] <OvenWerks> Then there is application style, which does not include all the themes in global, but does affect gtk title bars :P
[18:14] <Eickmeyer> For us, application style is Kvantum because the Kvantum application sets the theme based on SVG.
[18:15] <Eickmeyer> That's because the GTK title bars are client-side, not server-side.
[18:15] <Eickmeyer> So they'll base on whatever GTK theme is being used (including application theme), not the window theme.
[18:15] <OvenWerks> Application style->gtk3 theme gives a dropdown which again does not include my global theme :P
[18:16] <OvenWerks> but application style->window decorations has more again.
[18:16] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: As I stated before, the global theme does not set GTK theme.
[18:17] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  that is ok. I am not that upset with that, but it is just finding where are all these tings
[18:17] <OvenWerks> it seems there are 5 or 6 different places for them
[18:17] <Eickmeyer> Window decorations don't affect GTK client-side decorations.
[18:18] <Eickmeyer> The Global Theme is supposed to be the one theme area to rule them all. Except GTK for reasons.
[18:19] <OvenWerks> reasons == broken
[18:19] <RikMills> https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kde-gtk-config/-/commit/7e61802bb179f53e0e785109ce7ab35d9b5dec54
[18:20] <RikMills> if that is what you mean?
[18:20] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: He's upset that the global theme doesn't affect the GTK theme.
[18:20] <Eickmeyer> (never has)
[18:20] <OvenWerks> no, that is not it.
[18:21] <OvenWerks> it is that there seem to be many places that affect things
[18:21] <RikMills> ok. I only skimmed the scrollback here
[18:21] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Global Theme sets Plasma style, Application style, and Window decorations. That's it.
[18:21] <Eickmeyer> That covers 3 of the 4 things.
[18:21] <Eickmeyer> Oh, it sets Icon theme too. 4/5
[18:21] <OvenWerks> if I go to /usr/share/themes I do not see the theme I am using...
[18:22] <RikMills> and wallpaper if it specifies one
[18:22] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Did you install a theme locally?
[18:22] <OvenWerks> if I try ~/.local/share/themes/ it doesn't exist
[18:22] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  yes of course]
[18:22] <OvenWerks> :)
[18:22] <Eickmeyer> GTK theme?
[18:23] <Eickmeyer> Or plasma theme?
[18:23] <OvenWerks> no plama
[18:23] <OvenWerks> plasma
[18:23] <OvenWerks> Actually two of them
[18:23] <Eickmeyer> Then it should be in ~/.local/share/plasma
[18:23] <Eickmeyer> (~/.local/share/themes only applies to GTK themes)
[18:24] <OvenWerks> Ah, I see so the system version is in /usr/share/plasma
[18:24] <Eickmeyer> Yes.
[18:25] <Eickmeyer> The window decorations go in /usr/share/kwin/aurorae
[18:25] <OvenWerks> So I should look for a gtk3 theme I like
[18:26] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, sure.
[18:26] <Eickmeyer> I thought you liked the CDE theme?
[18:27] <OvenWerks> That is what I am using.. commonality theme with the breeze-CDE window decorations I think.
[18:28] <Eickmeyer> Gotcha. Yeah, you might be able to find it.
[18:29] <OvenWerks> commonality has a horible window title BG, breeze-cde is the right one
[18:29] <Eickmeyer> https://store.kde.org/p/1231025
[18:29] <Eickmeyer> ^ CDE/Motif ?
[18:29] <OvenWerks> but the gtk apps grab the commonality colour
[18:30] <Eickmeyer> Yes, as they should. If you set to Breeze then they'll grab the right color scheme, but remain the breeze style.
[18:31] <OvenWerks>  :P I was able to manually change ~/.config/gtk-3.0/colors.css
[18:31] <OvenWerks> which does work
[18:32] <Eickmeyer> yes, that would do the trick.
[18:32] <OvenWerks>  but then I found there is a breeze-cde in colors that also works
[18:33] <OvenWerks> Now all that is left is to find matching icons for the title bar buttons
[19:50] <OvenWerks> MauroGaspari[m]: installing cdetheme (for gtk3) will tell the DE to add it's own title bar decorations
[19:51] <OvenWerks> MauroGaspari[m]: It will leave the GTK extra title bar as well though. But the plasma bar will allow move to desktop.
[19:52] <OvenWerks> MauroGaspari[m]: the cdetheme-solaris which comes in the same package, will probably change the colours in a less obtrusive manner
[19:53] <OvenWerks> There may be some other gtk themes that also add a title bar but with a look you perfer