[04:58] <mattt> morning
[05:46] <daubers> morning
[06:53] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:00] <DJones> Morning
[07:02] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:26] <czajkowski> morning
[07:29] <Flashtek> merning
[07:42] <dwatkins> hiya
[07:48] <popey> morning
[08:15]  * directhex reaches inescapable conclusion: Qt is bloated
[08:18] <diplo> Morning
[08:18] <popey> http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/06/finally-unity-3d-game-engine-adds-linux.html golly
[08:18] <popey> thats good isnt it?
[08:19] <BigRedS> I was very confused at all these "unity support for linux" headlines I was seeing
[08:20] <directhex> popey, depends.
[08:20] <directhex> popey, it's good if you want more games on linux. it's bad if you hate mono
[08:22] <gord> i didn't think unity used mono
[08:22] <directhex> the unity3d game engine is all mono. that's what makes it funny that microsoft used unity3d to make ipad games
[08:22] <gord> ha, neat. mono is cool
[08:23] <directhex> and i'm just waiting on a review to upload monogame (bastion's engine) to debian
[08:24] <gord> though i get the feeling most people building the games for linux will just build once before releasing in the humle bumble and it will be a buggy mess
[08:30] <BigRedS> yeah, I'm generally wary of anything cross-platform until the developer is, too
[08:33] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:34] <AlanBell> morning bigcalm
[08:34] <oimon> anyone know how to create separate rsyslog logs based upon source host when colecting logs centrally?
[08:35] <bigcalm> AlanBell: as predicted, Hayley would love to go to the BBQ. But we both agreed that we can't justify the expense right now. She's looking forward to catching up with you guys on the RAT though :)
[08:38] <AlanBell> yeah, RAT will be fun
[08:56] <AlanBell> so will the BBQ http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
[08:57] <JamesTai1> Good morning all! :)
[08:59] <JamesTait> AlanBell: I think your predicition for when summer will be is off - it started yesterday and ends today. ;)
[09:00] <gord> anyone here happen to be a zen customer? or have any opinions on them as an isp?
[09:05] <diplo> gord: I am not a customer but we have lots of customers of ours who use them and are happy. Also a guy in the office here also uses them and says he has had good service, not heard awful things is probably where I am going with this :)
[09:06] <gord> they look a bit expensive, but it looks like they don't do dumb things like traffic shape, hard to find a good fibre isp
[09:07] <diplo> I think costs are probably helping them with maybe not doing shaping ?
[09:07] <diplo> That's why I don't go with the cheapest for customers
[09:08] <gord> maybe, though they do have limits which i don't like at all. hate that feeling
[09:09] <diplo> I'm with Sky, not hit any limits yet
[09:11] <dwatkins> gord: my dad's with Zen, he is quite happy with them despite only getting 6 MBit a mile from the exchange (small village)
[09:12] <ikonia> Zen are golden
[09:12] <gord> 6mbit on fibre?
[09:12] <ikonia> I get 70MB
[09:12] <dwatkins> I'm with BeThere - no limits, and consistently fast unencumbered internets
[09:12] <dwatkins> gord: no, copper
[09:12] <ikonia> well 69.8
[09:13] <gord> i'm on Be, but they started blocking websites and don't have a fibre plan at all, so shopping about
[09:13] <dwatkins> I was tempted to choose BT's fibre-to-the-cabinett 'infinity' offering, but by then I was fed up with their idiocy.
[09:13] <gord> zen basically resell that
[09:14] <gord> so its bt infinity, without the idiocy
[09:14] <ikonia> Zen will do that for you with zero idiocy
[09:14] <dwatkins> I suspect my dad's village doesn't have that quite yet, though.
[09:14] <ikonia> I can't speak well enough about Zen
[09:14] <dwatkins> Line enabled for Fibre Broadband:	No
[09:15] <gord> ikonia, have to use their router?
[09:15] <dwatkins> sadly the equivalent tool on BeThere's website is still down
[09:15] <bigcalm> Is there a site one can use to see if fibre is coming to one's area?
[09:15] <bigcalm> We're in a VM cabled area, so think it unlikely
[09:16] <dwatkins> bigcalm: this might be useful: http://www.zen.co.uk/business/broadband/fibre-broadband/bt-exchanges-scheduled-to-be-fttc-enabled.aspx
[09:16] <AlanBell> BT infinity through a reseller is the way to go, I use plus net
[09:16] <bigcalm> dwatkins: ta
[09:17] <bigcalm> Wow, it is coming to the local town
[09:17] <dwatkins> I'm surprised my dad's exchange isn't on there
[09:17] <diplo> bigcalm: I'm in cabled area and we already have Infinity
[09:17] <AlanBell> openreach are putting posters on street cabinets when they get FTTC
[09:17] <bigcalm> On google maps, our village looks to be part of the local town. So maybe we'll get it
[09:18] <diplo> yeah thats what made melook AlanBell
[09:18] <diplo> Noticed it on one near me
[09:18] <bigcalm> If we ever lose our Mates Rates from VM, I'll be shopping around
[09:18] <diplo> Yet the place I really want it ( this office ) doesnn't have it yet, but on initial release of Infinity it was supposed to be done before my estate :(
[09:20] <diplo> Site doesn't work that well for checking, set to unknown at the mo
[09:22] <directhex> i'm on Infinity. not via a reseller as BT are uncapped and resellers are capped.
[09:26] <gord> if you are in a cable area, is infinity really that attractive?
[09:27] <directhex> i'm not in a cable area, sadly
[09:28] <daubers> gord: More attractive than the fail that is VM
[09:29] <diplo> I was with Blueyonder then Virgin for about 12 years or so
[09:29] <diplo> Service went downhill over the last 2 years or so
[09:29] <DJones> Argh, why do I spend 30 minutes checking the broadband connection, restarting the router, making sure the servers are powered up and running, only to find that the reason we've lost all internet & server access is beacuse somebody turned a mini switch off
[09:29] <diplo> Any sort of torrents and the line would come to a halt
[09:30] <diplo> DJones: Nagios or something to monitor switches / routers
[09:30] <diplo> :)
[09:31] <DJones> diplo: What have can you suggest that monitors people moving their bin/handbag to knock the power switch though? 6 inch nails to nail their hands to teh desk
[09:32] <bigcalm> Sounds reasonable
[09:32] <AlanBell> DJones: gaffer tape should be sufficient
[09:32] <BigRedS> put things with power switches in boxes?
[09:32] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:32] <BigRedS> g'morning!
[09:32] <DJones> AlanBell: But not as much fun
[09:33] <brobostigon> morning BigRedS
[09:34] <DJones> BigRedS: Getting a box to put something in would be harder than getting some rocking horse manure for the weeds outside the office, for a business that can't work without its computers, IT spending is none existant
[09:34] <diplo> DJones: But you would have at least known it was the switch that had gone down ?
[09:34] <directhex> today's blogging flamebait is gonna be fun <3
[09:34] <diplo> And you can buy secure covers for power sockets, we sued them at my last place
[09:35] <diplo> http://www.pluglock.co.uk/
[09:35] <diplo> Cleaners used to unplug things at night, including servers at branches :)
[09:37] <DJones> I would love to get things like that, I can't even get the owners to replace the server, which has failed twice in the last year, power supply died & took 4 days to get a replacement via a junk shop (Yes, the server is that old)
[09:38] <DJones> 2nd time, the 40Gb drives on the server were full and need replacing or the server needs replacing, managed to free up 500Mb space so that it'd keep running for now
[09:39] <diplo> heh, we have customers like that
[09:39] <ikonia> gord: I use Zens' router for fiber, yes
[09:39] <diplo> One where someone broke some setup on a CentOS box, GLIBC_2 errors not found etc
[09:40] <diplo> That was probably a year ago, won't let us reinstall.. we just fix things as they break
[09:40] <DJones> Our IT support firm told the directors 2 years ago that the servers were held together with stick tape & hope
[09:40] <BigRedS> This opera-alike new-tab screen that just arrived in an update; is it part of the Ubuntu firefox modifications or are Mozilla drunk?
[09:41] <diplo> heh, I miss those days DJones
[09:41] <BigRedS> DJones: telling them never works. You need to engineer downtime
[09:41] <ikonia> BigRedS: mozilla
[09:41] <BigRedS> :(
[09:41] <diplo> I don't have to deal with these people anymore, I just fix the stuff the other guys can't now adays
[09:41] <BigRedS> it's incredibly poorly done
[09:41] <DJones> BigRedS: I don't need to "engineer" downtime, it happens often enough on its own
[09:41] <diplo> lol
[09:42] <BigRedS> DJones: if they still don't want the fixes, clearly not enough :)
[09:42] <DJones> BigRedS: They want the fixes, they just want them for free
[09:44] <directhex> ikonia, you're about a lot today. things calmer at work?
[09:45] <DJones> My attitude now is, if it doesn't affect me, I leave it, if I did anything, nothing would happen anyway.  I back my stuff up locally so & can keep working, I leave the rest to the people who don't know enough about it, but know enough that they won't pay for fixes
[09:47] <BigRedS> ah yeah, I was broadly in that position by the time they made me redundant. I went through a long phase of working quite hard to make it obvious that we needed upgrades or changes in policy and much of it did work, but it was _so_ much extra work, and on top of the work I was supposed to be doing
[09:47] <diplo> DJones: I moved to pretty much the same mindset before I left the last company... they stopped paying for stuff, they stopped paying ANY overtime etc so I just looked after myself after that
[09:47] <BigRedS> oh yeah, when I started needing to prearrange overtime I stopped doing anything unneccesary
[09:48] <diplo> I think it seems we all go through the same **** but at different comapnies :)
[09:48] <BigRedS> even got asked to stop fixing the mailserver 'cause it was 5pm once.
[09:48] <diplo> Well the company that has taken over the place I worked at refuses to let me colleague fix stuff out of hours
[09:49] <diplo> and the people who use the software/hardware during the day refuse to let him do anything during the say
[09:49] <diplo> day*
[09:49] <diplo> So he is now doing nothing
[09:49] <diplo> :)
[09:49] <DJones> At least you work in IT, its not even my job
[09:50] <DJones> When you do get to fix things, you have the tools/support/advice etc you need
[09:51] <diplo> I forget that people in here are not in IT Aswell :)
[09:51] <diplo> What is your job DJones ? If you don't mind ?
[09:52] <DJones> Accounts
[09:52] <DJones> I'm the finance manager at a luxury holiday firm
[09:54] <diplo> oh right, know where to get some deals now then
[09:54] <diplo> Slip in some discounts as the invoices go through
[09:54] <DJones> Heh
[09:55] <BigRedS> ah yeah, I keep making the same mistake as diplo
[10:02] <DJones> diplo: Just checked the price list, I can do Barbados (subject to availability) for about £45,000 per week, that does include a house manager, chef, butler, maid, laundress, boatman & a night watchman, you pay extra for food
[10:03] <bigcalm> DJones: after all of the costs of employment etc, what's the margin?
[10:04] <DJones> We aim to make about 15% on each booking, the villa's are owned by 3rd parties, we just act as an agent
[10:05] <bigcalm> I see
[10:06] <bigcalm> DJones: sounds like one of my main clients who rent out apartments in Paris
[10:06] <bigcalm> And Italy and London now
[10:06] <DJones> To me, what some people are prepared to pay is silly money, but I guess they've got the money and can afford it out of their loose change
[10:07] <bigcalm> Yup
[10:09] <bigcalm> I've set up vtiger and civicrm for my Father to play with. Still on the look out for a web app to manage club membership. Anybody got any suggestions for off the self, open source, Linux based apps?
[10:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] Enormity - http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/416/
[10:11] <directhex> aha
[10:11] <diplo> DJones: Sorry was away... I'll book 2 weeks at that price please!
[10:12] <DJones> Do you have your own transport/plane/boat, or do you want flights as well :)
[10:12] <diplo> heh, LearJet please
[10:12] <DJones> :)
[10:19] <diplo> heh directhex, still trying to get people to believe you I see :)
[10:20] <diplo> I think the people that don't listen are the ones you won't change there minds with proof or not
[10:27] <BigRedS> I don't remember the last time I was particularly concerned about the amount of diskspace a particular install would require
[10:27] <BigRedS> partculary not when it's tens of MB
[10:31] <diplo> I don't think they mean it like that, well not how i take it
[10:31] <diplo> I feel it meant bloated as in deps etc to do anything
[10:33] <diplo> Or it could be i got the wrong end of the stick :D
[10:42] <BigRedS> yeah, that's still what I meant
[10:42] <BigRedS> if AppA requires 100MB and AppB requires 6MB I'd still be more interested in how good each is than that 90MB of disk space
[10:44] <diplo> Same here, but I think what I put earlier is what the others bitch about
[10:44] <diplo> Pointless.. but yeah
[11:10] <oimon> why do people on this youtube video have blue faces?
[11:11] <oimon> hint: it's not avatar or the smurfs
[11:11] <AlanBell> because you are using flash
[11:11] <oimon> did they break it?
[11:11] <BigRedS> flash *is* them breaking it
[11:11]  * oimon has no sound too :-\
[11:11] <AlanBell> yeah, they announced their final version for linux and broke it on nvidia as they did so
[11:11] <oimon> since logging into lxde i think that issue was
[11:12] <oimon> how long has it been broken?
[11:12] <AlanBell> https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=bug&id=3109467
[11:12] <oimon> i think i didn't notice because i was usually logged into chromium which is using html5 when i'm logged in
[11:14] <AlanBell> bug 967091 has a workaround (disable accelleration)
[11:15] <oimon> no sound in lubuntu ...any ideas anyone?
[11:15] <oimon> all i hear is hiss
[11:15] <czajkowski> #lubuntu
[11:15] <oimon> alsamixer headphone setting is 00
[11:15] <czajkowski> ask in #lubuntu perhaps
[11:19] <oimon> it's probably related to installing lxde on top of ubuntu..i'll try them tho
[11:21] <BigRedS> if you install lubuntu-desktop then it's no excuse for breaking
[11:21] <oimon> i agree
[11:21] <oimon> installing lubuntu-desktop =/= installing lubuntu though
[11:21] <oimon> lots of quirky theme issues i woulnd't otherwise see
[11:21] <popey> lubuntu doesnt use pulse i think
[11:22] <popey> oimon: you seem to change desktop a lot!
[11:22] <oimon> only since unity :s
[11:22] <oimon> lxde +xcompmgr + docky + gnome do is good for me atm and stable
[11:22] <oimon> maybe if elementary get round to releasing i'lll be happy with that.
[11:23] <oimon> i was on gnome-fallback and happy but had odd issues with the systray and performance issues
[11:23]  * AlanBell is using gnome-fallback at the moment
[11:23]  * diplo is waiting for oimon to come together with a good solution before reinstalling
[11:24] <diplo> Takes the hassle out of playing with lots of DE
[11:24] <AlanBell> annoyed at how much I like it compared to unity
[11:24] <diplo> 's
[11:24] <oimon> :D
[11:24]  * BigRedS uses Gnome3
[11:24] <oimon> lxde as presented by lubuntu is very nice
[11:24] <BigRedS> well, gnome-session
[11:24] <diplo> AlanBell: same here, partially familiarity but for me it's more becuase it's more stable
[11:24] <oimon> stock lxde is not so pretty
[11:25] <oimon> i am amazed at the speed of lxde , and functionality is equal to gnome2
[11:25] <BigRedS> I tried XFCE the other day, it feels _so_ dated now I'm used to gnome session and unity
[11:25] <BigRedS> even the ubuntu one which is basically Gnome2 prettiness
[11:26] <AlanBell> I do like lenses as a concept and I am OK with the launcher and quicklists
[11:27] <AlanBell> just wish the nux stuff worked better
[11:27] <dogmatic69> encrypted home was the biggest mistake ever :/
[11:27] <BigRedS> I think I'd like lenses if they didn't take so long to start working
[11:27] <AlanBell> having an alt-tab that does what I expect is nice
[11:27] <BigRedS> and, generally, they just take a while. which is great if you're searching, but I'm normally not
[11:28] <BigRedS> so I type what I want and hit enter, and it's still got the search result from the first four characters so it runs that...
[11:28] <BigRedS> I've reverted to the old alt-tab, and when I use unity it's with only one workspace
[11:29] <BigRedS> it seems a lot like that's what it's designed for
[11:30] <AlanBell> yeah, I tend not to use additional workspaces with unity, but I did loads when I used the cube
[11:31] <Myrtti> I just configure the workspaces to be side by side rather than a grid
[11:32] <BigRedS> yeah, i just find that it's a lot less surprising on a single workspace
[11:42] <oimon> i hear synapse uses zeitgeist too
[11:43] <oimon> the moment i get a spare hour at work i'm installing lubuntu from fresh
[12:58] <TheFred> hello
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> I've removed zeitgeist
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> too much disk i/o
[13:27] <gord> MartijnVdS, is that based on any statistics?
[13:28] <BigRedS> well, *any* I/O supporting something I don't use is too much :)
[13:28] <gord> zeitgeist is explicitly designed to minimise disk i/o, it relies on outside sources to inform it of changes to the disk
[13:28] <gord> thats the point, it doesn't. gedit says "hey Zeitgeist, i saved a file!" and Zeitgeist goes "okay, recording that!"
[13:29] <BigRedS> oh, so it only gets data from things that are aware of it?
[13:29] <gord> pretty much, though i don't know all the in's and outs and there are extensions that do random stuff, but that is the general idea
[13:29] <BigRedS> ahh
[13:42] <daubers> 3I thought zeitgeist did some inotify type magic too?
[13:43] <gord> the idea is not to have to do that, because it causes wake-ups
[13:43] <gord> i think we might do something like that explicitly for unity, to watch ~/Downloads or something
[13:43] <daubers> Ah. I know it did at one point, because I kept running out of notify handles :) Not had that recently though
[13:45] <AlanBell> UbuntuOne kills your notify handles
[13:47] <daubers> Haven't noticed that too much... but don't have much in U1 anyway
[13:50] <gord> surely u1 should be just putting a watch on each shared directory?
[13:52] <AlanBell> yeah, I put my projects directory in U1 then did a few things like branching unity and compiz there
[13:52] <AlanBell> 100% CPU for a few hours and a couple of days to sync and inotify broke
[13:53] <gord> fun, filed a bug? u1 shouldn't make that many handles
[13:53] <AlanBell> I now don't use U1 for that kind of area where I could suddenly create a few thousand small files
[13:53] <popey> wfm ⍨
[13:54] <BigRedS> surely all that was under some other version control anyway?
[13:54] <AlanBell> BigRedS: sure, I just pointed U1 at my projects folder because it would be nice to have it sync to other machines
[13:55] <MartijnVdS> gord: it's based on my experience
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> gord: system slow.  System fast.
[14:01] <AlanBell> what php performance tweaks are good to do? I have installed php-apc, is there other magic stuff to make it fast?
[14:02] <BigRedS> AlanBell: depends on the site generally. There's some tuning of APC you can do but it's rarely needed
[14:02] <BigRedS> generally, the biggest problem with running PHP is the programmer
[14:03] <BigRedS> most tweaks we make are to send MySQL query stats to the programmer and get them to not do such stupid things with the database
[14:05] <AlanBell> yeah, I think this could use some optimisation
[14:05] <AlanBell> pushing bigish data into vtiger
[14:08] <bigcalm> AlanBell: my dad finally got to play with vtiger. Well, he looked at the site I set up for him. Haven't heard anything for a few days. I feel for his safety
[14:08] <AlanBell> heh
[14:08] <AlanBell> is memcached as exciting as it sounds?
[14:09] <mgdm> it's nto exciting, but it really works
[14:09] <diplo> Guys use it at my work place, not had any need to touch it myself yet
[14:09] <diplo> Don't FB use it in a big way
[14:09] <diplo> ?
[14:09] <AlanBell> yeah, I think they wrote it
[14:09] <mgdm> yeah, they have a couple of hundred terabytes of it
[14:09] <mgdm> AlanBell: No, LiveJournal did
[14:10] <AlanBell> oh, ok
[14:10] <mgdm> APC is the obvious PHP tweak. Memcached is not something you can just drop in, unless your app is built for it
[14:11] <AlanBell> BigRedS: how do you get the mysql query stats?
[14:12] <bigcalm> Take cakephp 1.1 app that works on php 5.2. Upgrade to PHP 5.3 and find the cakephp 1.1 app doesn't work. Install APC. Cakephp 1.1 app works!
[14:12] <bigcalm> APC is magic
[14:12] <mgdm> bigcalm: that's just weird, there is no reason for that to happen
[14:12] <mgdm> AlanBell: there are tools like xhprof which can show you really detailed things about the guts of your app
[14:12] <bigcalm> mgdm: I agree
[14:12] <mgdm> but that might be a little low level
[14:13] <mgdm> New Relic is *really* nice, but $$$
[14:18] <bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/-/dp/B003BIFSFK £47 quid to add traffic fun to my satnav. Is it worth it I wonder?
[14:21] <balor> czajkowski, Are you honestly trying to convince people to move from git to bzr?
[14:24] <czajkowski> balor: hello there :)
[14:24] <czajkowski> balor: I dont need to convience was meerly pointing out a useful document
[14:25]  * AlanBell wonders if launchpad will support git code hosting at some point
[14:25] <balor> czajkowski, ah.  I have used bazaar since before its tla days, and even I've switched to git.
[14:25] <AlanBell> to be honest what I want it to do is render documentation like github does with the README.md stuff
[14:26] <czajkowski> balor: yes but you're not normal now are you :)
[14:27] <balor> czajkowski, probably not.  I prefer darcs to either bzr or git.  But the rest of the world uses git, so I have to conform.
[14:29] <czajkowski> hah you conform
[14:29] <czajkowski> now there is a first :)
[14:30] <balor> czajkowski, They're making me use Windows in work
[14:31] <czajkowski> balor: and you haven't stomped your feet
[14:31] <czajkowski> for shame! :)
[14:31] <czajkowski> call yourself a geek :p
[14:31] <BigRedS> AlanBell: slow query log
[14:31] <BigRedS> it's in the my.cnf, then there's a mysql slow query log analyser which was from maatkit and I think is now offline
[14:31] <BigRedS> I can send you a copy though. The guy who wrote it went to percona and stopped being so freely useful :)
[14:32] <BigRedS> 99% of the time you can just check the logs yourself and sneakily add indexes, but sometimes you can see that four million rows are being selected and the page is only showing the first five or something
[14:32] <balor> czajkowski, I've been stomping for years.  It's now time to give them what they want, and then see if they actually want it.
[14:33] <czajkowski> balor: hehe
[14:38] <AlanBell> BigRedS: that would be cool, I just turned on slow query logging and non-indexed queries, doesn't look like it makes any unindexed queries
[14:38] <AlanBell> just rather a *lot* of small queries I expect
[14:39] <daubers> I'd forgotten how much better my sennheisers where than my logitech USB headphones
[14:39] <bigcalm> AlanBell: I had this same problem last week. Logging didn't show me what was wrong. Ended up using micro timers in the PHP around functions until I found the one taking up the most time
[14:40] <BigRedS> AlanBell: what is this you're running? If it's a 'proper' project (i.e. OSS) it's probably fine
[14:40] <BigRedS> but custom-written things seem to almost always completely misuse the db
[14:40] <bigcalm> Yep :D
[14:40] <bigcalm> Dealing with code from 2001 isn't healthy
[14:40] <AlanBell> BigRedS: vtiger, it is open source
[14:41] <BigRedS> you can profile the php, too, but it's less easy. The old adage of not optimising until you've run the code, have detected that it's slow *and* defined 'acceptable' holds, though :)
[14:41] <BigRedS> AlanBell: ah, yeah, that's likely to be fairly well behaved, then :)
[14:41] <AlanBell> the web services API to it is kinda sluggish (in fact the whole thing is underperforming a bit)
[14:41] <mgdm> xhprof \o/
[14:42] <BigRedS> yeah, I was just going to say that there's proper tools for profiling these things, and mgdm will know what they are :)
[14:47]  * diplo takes a look at xhprof
[15:01] <diplo> Might have to have a play with that xhprof
[15:01] <AlanBell> logging sql queries is quite instructive
[15:01] <diplo> Looks quite good, never bothered profiling any of our stuff before
[15:01] <AlanBell> using web services to create one contact record causes 118 sql queries to happen
[15:02] <diplo> jeesh, thatvtiger?
[15:02] <diplo> My space bar sucks! :(
[15:03] <AlanBell> yeah, viger
[15:03] <AlanBell> t
[15:03] <diplo> Seems a quite good package, took a look the other week after you mentioned it
[15:04] <diplo> czajkowski: Any ideas on pay on that job you just posted?
[15:04] <czajkowski> diplo: nope sorry
[15:04] <AlanBell> yeah, it is OK for a PHP application, and performs fine most of the time, I just think it can go faster
[15:05]  * AlanBell always used to take toys apart to make them go faster
[15:05] <diplo> heh, why not if it's there to be tinkered with tinker away
[15:05] <diplo> But as you say 118 queries
[15:05] <diplo> !
[15:06] <diplo> We have had to catch our developers on simialr issues with our in house app AlanBell
[15:06] <diplo> They were loading every .js .css file on every page loaded
[15:06] <AlanBell> it does 112 selects and 6 inserts
[15:07] <AlanBell> I am thinking of getting my import routine to generate those inserts and cut out the other junk
[15:07] <diplo> It was putting 2+ sec time on loads
[15:07] <czajkowski> diplo: you can always ask HR or talk to them they know  tbh
[15:08] <diplo> yeah, wasn't 100% interested in the job.. peeked my interest a little
[15:08] <diplo> thanks, will keep it in mind
[15:08] <diplo> Are Canonical quite flexible on hours ?
[15:09] <diplo> So say i started at 8am and finished at 5pm, but one day a week i couldn't start till 9am..
[15:09] <diplo> Do they allow for stuff like that ?
[15:09] <diplo> Been interested in a few jobs on the site, but in my situation now I need to be able to sort my kids out
[15:10] <diplo> *From your experience ( Not asking for a definitive answer )
[15:10] <diplo> AlanBell: Lot's of tables to have that many inserts/selects ?
[15:10] <AlanBell> yeah, it is a full tablefest
[15:12] <diplo> heh, nothing ever prepared me for SAP's structure and I don't think anything can ever be as bad
[15:13] <directhex> davical is ~40 tables
[15:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> vtiger ~ 500
[15:13] <czajkowski> diplo: very kid friendly
[15:13] <diplo> \o/
[15:13] <diplo> thanks
[15:13] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, davical is just a calendar server
[15:13] <czajkowski> some folks start later to do school runs
[15:14] <czajkowski> others finish early to do schools, and others split it really depends on the team but it is very flexible
[15:14] <gord> that reminds me, need to fabricate some children so i can have "emergencies".. "oh no, timmy ran into the chainsaw in the garage again, gotta go take him to the video games. i mean hospital. hospital not video games"
[15:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I know directhex
[15:14] <diplo> SAPs initial install for the DB was 120GB empty.... i think
[15:14] <diplo> from memory
[15:15] <diplo> That's exactly my issue czajkowski, thanks, drop them at school @ 8:30 and pick up at 3:30 on amonday and once every other friday
[15:15] <czajkowski> gord: Tim.. Tim..... TIMMY!!!
[15:15] <diplo> Worried that will cause me issues in other companies, currents one is flexible but I'm really not enjoying my job :(
[15:15] <czajkowski> diplo: pretty standard from what I can see, I dont' have kids, but most of my team does and nobody bats an eyelid
[15:18] <diplo> heh gord, just read yours
[15:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> we are [will be] a child friendly employer
[15:19] <diplo> Must send you my CV at some point :)
[15:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> Feel free to do that diplo
[15:19]  * AlanBell thoroughly approves of child labour
[15:19]  * mgdm has a talk he has done on occasion about making websites fast
[15:19] <mgdm> I'll dig out the slides if anyone wants
[15:19] <diplo> I really think my 5 year old wants to do more, I'm scared to let him on to the PC's to much
[15:19] <AlanBell> oh, does child friendly not mean that?
[15:20] <diplo> mgdm: I'm interested
[15:20] <mgdm> diplo: email me your address -<EMAIL_ADDRESS>- it'll help me remember :-)
[15:20] <mgdm> whe I say 'address' I mean 'email', clearly :)
[15:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> My son is beating me up - he wants MOAR SPEED on his PC - to play Minecraft... And do stop-motion videos
[15:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's pretty old now so I do feel for him... An AMD 3400+ IIRC
[15:21] <diplo> Done, as I'd forget otherwise
[15:22] <diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: How old ?
[15:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> 11
[15:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> This is the kind pof thing he's into: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOqT711zQWo
[15:22] <diplo> Ah mines only 5, turning 6 in Sept. But about 9 in his head :)
[15:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have a 7yr old too.
[15:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> he's also needing moar speed.
[15:23] <diplo> So clever, the 4 year old was on the laptop I have for them the other day trying to swipe the screen to change pages, wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry
[15:24] <matti> diplo: Hahah
[15:24] <diplo> Wouldn't have had  a clue at their agge
[15:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> I introduced them to Scratch a few weeks ago. gave them a 1/2 hr run through then left them to it. They made a simple Pacman type game in a few hours.
[15:25] <diplo> mgdm: Guessing that would explain some of the php knowledge from the email address :)
[15:26] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: what video card does it have?
[15:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Some (very)old nvidia thinggy
[15:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> with 4 stream processors running at 30Hz IIRC.
[15:27] <popey> find out what it is, I may have a better one you can have
[15:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> PCI
[15:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not PCIe
[15:27] <mgdm> diplo: possibly :-)
[15:27] <popey> ah
[15:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> or anything later
[15:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mobo is an Asus asus A8N-SLI Delux IIRC
[15:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - So it will be PCIe
[15:28] <popey> yeah
[15:28] <popey> i have one in my old desktop
[15:29] <popey> i may have something, lemme look when i get home
[15:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'll do a lspci on it. I can WoL it from here.
[15:30] <popey> ok
[15:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV37GL [Quadro FX 330/GeForce PCX 5300] (rev a2)
[16:13] <jacobw> TheOpenSourcerer: scratch is used by the open university
[16:54] <ali1234> scratch is app inventor renamed right?
[16:56] <jacobw> i don't think so
[16:56] <jacobw> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_%28programming_language%29
[16:56] <ali1234> the "programming language" part looks identical
[17:20] <Flashtek> damnit.. why can't i change my V5c addresses online...
[17:43] <AlanBell>  ali1234 scratch pre-dates app inventor by some margin
[17:44] <ali1234> yeah i saw that. they are closely related though. makes sense that google gave the source to MIT too
[17:45] <ali1234> also: submitted merge request with spelling fixes. maintainer merges it, and spells my name wrong :)
[17:45] <AlanBell> http://ronaldbradford.com/blog/last_insert_idexpr-the-lesser-known-usage-2007-09-12/ this is the slowest query that mysql does
[17:46] <AlanBell> update vtiger_crmentity_seq set id=LAST_INSERT_ID(id+1);
[17:51] <diplo> evening all
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I get that all the time
[17:53] <diplo> 10.10 dual screen, I have a 24" 2407 and 20" 2007, 20" on the left and landscape
[17:53] <diplo> Can't get nvidia settings to change on the left screen
[17:53] <diplo> Any tips / tools any one can recommend ?
[17:54] <ali1234> change what?
[17:54] <MartijnVdS> diplo: buy intel :P\
[17:54] <mgdm> AlanBell: there's no way on earth that can be the slowest query
[17:54] <diplo> The orientation ( missed that bit )
[17:54] <diplo> Got intel on board, this is a 8800GTX
[17:55] <ali1234> i didn't know nvidia settings could do that
[17:55] <AlanBell> mgdm: thats what I thought too
[17:55] <mgdm> t might have been in that particular run
[17:55] <diplo> It can't that I can find ali1234
[17:55] <mgdm> the important thing about profiling is don't get hung up on the outliers
[17:55] <diplo> Trying to find something else if possible
[17:55] <mgdm> look at the 95% time
[17:56] <AlanBell> really, it is that
[17:57] <AlanBell> pt-query-digest mysql-slow.log    ->    http://paste.ubuntu.com/1049546/
[17:59] <AlanBell> so, that is two cold runs of inserting 100 contacts through the web services interface
[17:59] <AlanBell> the PARTITIONS and TABLES queries don't count as they only happened once per restart of mysql
[18:00] <mgdm> weird
[18:00] <AlanBell> yeah, I am trying to understand the side effects of LAST_INSERT_ID
[18:01] <diplo> I use it on my sites AlanBell probably for similar reasons, as it's for my contact info i use it on mine
[18:02] <AlanBell> it does a vast number of queries on the vtiger_ws_entity_fieldtype table which mostly return nothing, but they return fast
[18:02] <AlanBell> I am not sure if this measures all of the overhead for doing a query
[18:07] <AlanBell> mgdm: I am seeing lots of places to download xhprof from but it isn't in the repos, which installation method would you recommend?
[18:08] <mgdm> AlanBell: github.com/preinheimer/xhprof
[18:08] <mgdm> AlanBell: that variant makes the UI somewhat less insane
[18:09] <mgdm> AlanBell: you can compile the extension as long as you have 'php5-dev' installed - go into the extension directory and do 'phpize', './configure', 'make', then 'sudo make install'
[18:09] <mgdm> AlanBell: it only puts one file into the PHP modules dir, and then you need to put 'extension=xhprof.so' into /etc/php5/conf.d/xhprof.ini
[18:09] <AlanBell> great
[18:18] <directhex> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2011/12/08/kingston-hyper-x-240gb-review/1 for £132 delivered.
[18:23] <diplo> Before I pick a random scrolling banner like this one, can anyone recommend anything ?
[18:23] <diplo> http://www.mclelun.com/labs/#jqbanner
[18:24] <mgdm> directhex: nice
[18:24] <mgdm> diplo: I used jQuery Cycle for that
[18:25] <diplo> ta, taking a look now
[19:00] <diplo> Well me and js still don't get on :)
[19:00]  * diplo goes watch telly for a bit and come back to it
[19:00] <diplo> Could be the hacking I'm doing to Joomla, and breaking something there though :)
[19:03] <mgdm> eep
[19:03] <mgdm> I don't get on with Joomla
[19:14] <diplo> heh, a few people recommended it
[19:14] <diplo> Been asked if I can replace http://www.peopleagainstpoverty.com site
[19:14] <diplo> And I want mainly styling with a few added extras
[19:32] <diplo> I knew if i came back to it I'd fix it :)
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> Pendulum: Aw.. you're splitting up? http://www.supajam.com/news/story/Pendulum-to-split-up?tr=6190795
[19:35] <DJones> diplo: If you do replace that website, run a spell check on the trustee's page before it goes public
[19:37] <diplo> heh, never looked at it. It's a charity where I work.. I like one of the girls in there :)
[19:37] <diplo> Will do though, and will advise them.
[19:37]  * diplo looks now actually
[19:37] <DJones> Heh
[19:37] <DJones> Which charity do you work for?
[19:38] <diplo> Not me, the PAP website people are a charity, I've done some work for them recently
[19:38] <diplo> Helping out to get in a girls good books :)
[19:38] <DJones> Right, I'm with you
[19:39] <diplo> I said I'd have a look and see how much work is involved
[19:39] <diplo> Seems ok so far
[19:43] <mattt> tv advertisement for the macbook pro
[19:43] <mattt> don't recall seeing those before
[19:45] <diplo> So the Majority of this is going to be CSS
[19:45] <diplo> A little hacking
[19:45] <diplo> Might say I will do it :)
[19:45] <mgdm> I redid my website recently, wrote the CSS using LESS instead
[19:48] <mgdm> which is like CSS, but you can nest things and use variables
[19:48] <mgdm> so instead of remembering your link colour is #33f you can define @linkcolor = #33f and use @linkcolor everywhere :-)
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: they're adding support to Webkit for variables
[19:49] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: aye, but it's not quite the same thing
[19:49] <diplo> Might take a look at that mgdm, done a lot less web deb stuff in last few months
[19:50] <mgdm> the variables in LESS are a little more like #defines in the C preprocessor
[19:50] <AlanBell> yeah variables in CSS make a heap of sense
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: aren't the webkit/css variables mostly the same?
[19:50] <mgdm> Hmm, actually, disregard that, i'd mixed them up with something
[19:50] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: I was thinking of something else
[19:51] <AlanBell> even if they were *just* for colours they would be really useful
[20:06] <popey> http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/ \o/
[20:06] <MartijnVdS> ooh it's public
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> lots of very basic questions
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> to be expected of course :)
[20:09] <ali1234> i see lots of questions that are exact dulicates of questions on other sites
[20:10] <popey> thats not surprising at all
[20:11] <mcphail> the only question I'm interested in is "when will mine pop through the letterbox?"
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> it's a whole new group of people discovering Linux
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> and not the most polished distro either
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> so questions like that are to be expected
[20:12] <diplo> mcphail: +1
[20:12] <diplo> :/
[20:12] <diplo> My work colleage has had his 2 weeks and it's still sat on his desk doing nothing :(
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> I have mine on my desk
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> in a nice case
[20:13] <mcphail> mine will be getting sellotaped to the back of the tv
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> I've installed Raspbian
[20:14] <diplo> I'm going to get a few eventually, I want 2 xbmc ones, and one as a low powered server to monitor stuff and maybe house automation eventually
[20:14] <ali1234> the quality of answers is really poor too :(
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: that you can fix
[20:14] <diplo> ali1234: I'd agree with that, people answering with more questions really :)
[20:15] <ali1234> again, i'm not going to answer the same questions here that i've already answered on other sites
[20:15] <mcphail> diplo: i can recommed a sheevaplug as a low power arm server. I'm not sure the rasp pi is quite up to the task
[20:15] <ali1234> which is why the answers are so poor, probably
[20:15] <ali1234> this site shouldn't exist, all these questions should be asked on the main SE sites, where they will be instantly marked as duplicates of the questions with existing good answers
[20:16] <BigRedS> it does seem a little over-specific, but then there is the thinkpadlinux thing...
[20:17] <ali1234> here is a classic example: http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/258/how-to-program-a-usb-device-with-debian-python?rq=1
[20:17] <ali1234> that question has nothing at all to do with raspberry pi
[20:18]  * mgdm never got into stackoverflow
[20:18] <BigRedS> Is that notably different from a question about bash scripting on a Ubuntu forum?
[20:19] <mgdm> I search it, but have never asked or answered a question
[20:19] <ali1234> no, it isn't
[20:19] <ali1234> but stack exchange isn't a forum
[20:20] <BigRedS> well, a ubuntu stack exchange thing then
[20:20] <ali1234> many people believe ask ubuntu shouldn't be a separate site either, and when it comes to thing like prgramming questions, they often get moved to main SE sites
[20:21] <ali1234> if you ask a questionthat somehow involves ubuntu-specific APIs (like unity integration, or using quickly) then that's one thing
[20:22] <ali1234> but if, for example, you ask a question like "how do i write a usb driver for my webcam?" then the question will at best be moved somewhere else, or at worst receive only bad answers (or no answers at all)
[20:23] <ali1234> this is also why stack exchange discourages sites aimed at "beginners" and also dumped the tag for "beginner" questions. it's because if you make a site like that only beginners will use it and you won't ever get good answers.
[20:26] <BigRedS> yeah, beginner forums only work if you've already got a big community with experienced people who specifically want to help them
[20:27] <BigRedS> and even then they don't really
[20:31] <kane1309> helllo
[20:33] <BigRedS> good morning
[20:34] <kane1309> hello how do i get my minecraft in termial i forgot
[20:36] <BigRedS> er,   java -jar <minecraft jar file>   I think?
[20:37] <BigRedS> It's been a long time since I've played Minecraft; didn't it say it on the downloads page?
[20:37] <DJones> kane1309: java -jar minecraft.jar (I think)
[20:38] <kane1309> thanks
[20:45] <AlanBell> mgdm: I am struggling to get xhprof to do anything :(
[20:46] <mgdm> AlanBell: :/
[20:46] <AlanBell> I have installed it and referenced it in /etc/php5/conf.d/xhprof
[20:46] <AlanBell> php -m shows it is loaded
[20:46] <mgdm> OK
[20:46] <mgdm> did you set up the UI and add the header and footer include files?
[20:46] <AlanBell> I tried to
[20:47] <AlanBell> not entirely clear where the header and footer includes go, it says in a vhost
[20:48] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1049899/ not sure if that is right, just sticking them at the bottom
[20:48] <mgdm> that's fine
[20:49] <AlanBell> restarted apache, there doesn't appear to be any output happening in /tmp
[20:49] <mgdm> Hmmm? It should go into MySQL
[20:49] <AlanBell> oh
[20:50] <AlanBell> how does it know to go there?
[20:50] <mgdm> when you set up the UI stuff there's meant to be a config file to tell it how to store it
[20:50] <mgdm> thought that was in the instructions somewhere, evidently not
[20:50] <AlanBell> ah, and the footer and header reference that, ok
[20:51] <mgdm> yeah
[20:51] <AlanBell> ok, so I set up an empty database, with an xhprof user and added that to the config
[20:52] <mgdm> ok
[20:52] <mgdm> there's a file somewhere with the table structure
[20:52] <mgdm> sorry, this is a little vague, i'm doing two things at once
[20:58] <AlanBell> mgdm: ok, getting there I think :)
[20:59] <mgdm> AlanBell: *phew* :)
[21:37] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/callgraphs/ comedy callgraphs
[21:38] <diplo> bloomin eck
[21:38] <diplo> Big graph
[21:44] <mgdm> xhprof is great for having a comedy big black line going 'this is where you screwed up'
[21:44] <mgdm> glad you got it working :)
[21:44] <mgdm> there's nothing really obviously wrong there, though
[21:45] <BigRedS> oooh
[22:06] <keir_> my tab autocomplete in terminal emulators (xfterm, xterm) seems to have stopped working, any ideas on what might be going wrong/how i could get it back?
[22:09] <mcphail> keir_: have you changed shell? are you using bash?
[22:14] <keir_> mcphail, am using bash, havent changed shell, recently upgraded to 12.04 which I assume is what broke things...
[22:14] <keir_> when I ssh in it works fine
[23:18] <popey> uhm
[23:18] <popey> gedit some file
[23:18] <popey> in the terminal press ctrl+\
[23:18] <popey> it core dumps here
[23:19] <ali1234> what is ctrl+\
[23:20] <popey> the key next to z ☺
[23:20] <popey> I dunno, i hit it by accident
[23:20] <popey> and the editor crapped itself
[23:20] <ali1234> yeah it segfaults here too
[23:21] <popey> its not just gedit
[23:21] <popey> tried gcalctool
[23:21] <ali1234> so what signal is that sending?
[23:21]  * popey straces
[23:22] <ali1234> maybe it sends sig11?
[23:22] <ali1234> ie SEGV
[23:22] <ali1234> which would be handy for testing crash handlers
[23:23] <ali1234> no, that does something different
[23:25] <ali1234> aaah
[23:25] <ali1234> well i was close
[23:25] <ali1234> behaviour is intended
[23:25] <ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control-%5C
[23:26] <ali1234> "Under most UNIX based operating systems control-\ is used to terminate a running process from a command shell and have it produce a memory core dump by sending it a SIGQUIT signal."
[23:27] <popey>    golly
[23:48] <dubac0> http://www.canon-europe.com/Support/Consumer_Products/products/printers/Laser/i-SENSYS_LBP7200Cdn.aspx?DLtcmuri=tcm:13-846492&page=1&type=download would this work with ubuntu?
[23:49] <ali1234> no
[23:49] <dubac0> cannon i-sensys lbp7200cdn         ubuntu 12.04
[23:49] <dubac0> how to get that working as a network printer?
[23:49] <ali1234> oh wait it's driver version 2.4 not linux version 2.4
[23:51] <dubac0> ali1234: so it may work?
[23:51] <ali1234> i don't know


[03:12] <glick> hi
[03:12] <glick> how can i get the snap version of lmms?
[03:12] <glick> its newer than the repo one but in the kubuntu discover app i cant find it
[03:12] <glick> i cant find the snap version
[03:18] <glick> what is the official ubuntu flathub?
[03:31] <glick> why do I get "Aborted due to failure" when i try to install lmms flatpak?
[03:31] <glick> through discover?
[03:51] <glick> now i cant even remove the 'flathub' source from discover
[03:51] <glick> just another failure message with no clues given
[03:52] <glick> love that!
[03:56] <glick> hi
[03:56] <glick> is anyone here?
[04:17] <lethu> glick, sudo flatpak remote-delete
[04:18] <lethu> glick, add the source to the command
[04:36] <IrcsomeBot1> Jason was added by: Jason
[05:31] <glick> hey how come when i try to select an image with startup disk creator it doesnt open the iso image
[05:35] <Alabalistic> what kind of iso do you have win, or Linux
[05:35] <glick> im on linux and i have a linux image iso
[05:36] <Alabalistic> I had similar problem with some VM installer, when my iso was outside my home dir
[05:37] <glick> its in my downloads directory
[05:39] <Alabalistic> do you wanna use dd
 Hey sorry if that's a dumb question but does kubuntu support uefi?
[12:48] <diogenes_> yes
 Because I wanted to change to uefi and afaik I need to reformat my hard-drive?
[12:48] <diogenes_> yes to GPT
 Ahh yeah is there a way to do it in Linux? Or would I need an CD or something
 Because I wanted to dual boot windows and linux
[12:51] <jpjacobs> I can only recommend to take a good backup. Last time I installed windows, on a different physical disk than my previously installed kubuntu, it managed to wipe the entire disk (home partition included).
[12:51] <diogenes_> first install windows in UEFI then linux.
[12:52] <jpjacobs> As it was an SSD, there was no way of recovering anything (and admittedly, my backup wasn't as complete as I would have liked).
 Jpjacobs well reformatting normally wipes your hard drive lol
[12:52] <jpjacobs> IrcsomeBot: I didn't, I told it to install on a *different drive*
 Meh I just need to save some text files that's all xD this computer is almost dead anyways
[12:52] <jpjacobs> yet it managed somehow to nuke the other
 I only have one hard-drive xD
 But how do I actually reformat it?
[12:54] <jpjacobs> you just do so while installing windows.
 That's the thing it doesn't work
 It just says the hard drive ain't compatible
[12:56] <jpjacobs> in that case, boot a live cd session, use the disk management tool to make a new partition table (GPT) (after backup of anything you'd might want to keep)
 Yeah I'm backing up right now and actually I don't have a CD rn
[12:59] <jpjacobs> so get a disk image, and put it on a usb stick
 I don't have a USB stick xD
 Does a kubuntu image work?
[13:00] <jpjacobs> There's even an android app to do that, that works well
[13:00] <jpjacobs> image on what then, (if not usb stick or CD)?
 I have no empty CD that's what I meant
[13:01] <jpjacobs> well, to do any kind of installing without jumping through burning hoops, you'd need at least a USB stick or CD/DVD
 I have a kubuntu CD and a windows CD isn't that all I need
[13:04] <jpjacobs> ah, so you do have a live cd...
[13:04] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
 Oh sorry I forgot kubuntu was a livecd oof
 Does it take long to reformat it?
[13:08] <jpjacobs> it's almost instantly, as it's just the GPT that has to be written, and the rest of the disk does not get wiped
 Wait so nothing gets wiped?
[13:08] <jpjacobs> unless of course you need to securely wipe it for some reasons...
 But I would need to reinstall kubuntu right?
[13:09] <jpjacobs> not immediately. Formatting just means setting the filesystem to assume previously used blocks are now free to be overwritten
[13:10] <jpjacobs> installing a new partition table is about the same
 But I need to reinstall kubuntu to have it work with uefi right?
[13:10] <jpjacobs> yes, I think so
 OK because I recently discovered my laptop supports uefi lol
[13:10] <jpjacobs> at least, that's the easiest and most fool-proof option.
 Ok can I somehow wipe the whole hard drive
 Because I guess it's easier and then installing windows and Linux instead of deleting every partition
[13:11] <jpjacobs> so then, you make a GPT table for the disk, install windows, and resize the windows partition when installing kubuntu
 Afaik I can resize it in the windows installer
[13:12] <jpjacobs> so wipe as in make sure there's no way to recover, or just starting out with a new partition table and new partitions?
[13:12] <jpjacobs> because secure wiping takes time, while creating a new partition table does not.
 Just so it's empty I don't need a secure wipe
[13:13] <jpjacobs> so yes, that's easy
 Ok
[13:14] <jpjacobs> you open partition manager in the live CD session, select the (RIGHT) disk, and press the "new partition table" button
 Hang on I need to find my kubuntu disk first xD
 I need to start the disk in uefi mode right?
[13:16] <jpjacobs> be sure it's a kubuntu version that's still supported too. Because otherwise you'll have troubles updating after installation.
 It should be 19.10
[13:17] <jpjacobs> I think you'd need to set the correct boot mode in the BIOS (or whatever they call that in the UEFI age): UEFI, no secure boot.
[13:17] <jpjacobs> that's fine then
 Uhm in my bios it says UEFI: Slimtype DVD bla bla … SATA: Slimtype DVD bla bla
 But it doesn't say anything from secure boot
[13:18] <jpjacobs> sure, but there should be somewhere the boot mode (not boot device)
 OK I will check in a sec
[13:19] <jpjacobs> it's independent from the device you boot from, IIRC.
 What does iirc mean?
[13:20] <jpjacobs> if I recall correctly.
 Ahh OK thanks
 I just found some empty CDs oof let me just burn kubuntu on there I can't find my other CD
 What would be better 19.10 or 18.04?
[13:27] <jpjacobs> I'd go for 19.10, unless you require and LTS release (e.g. use in business, ...)
 Nah just my home pc
 OK Will do thanks for helping btw
[13:33] <jpjacobs> you're welcome
 OK I don't think I can do this
 Either kubuntu or my CD drive is shitting itself rn
 I'll just check if my other pc has a burner
 OK sorry for the long wait I just got my CD @jpjacobs
 I don't see anything about secure boot
[14:09] <jpjacobs> ok then
[14:09] <jpjacobs> I'd say, give it a try
 Ok
 Should I boot now in uefi or later?
[14:12] <jpjacobs> I don't think it really matters when just reformating the disk
 Ok
 I will just try in uefi
[14:12] <jpjacobs> when installing, it does matter I think
 OK it's starting
 OK im in the livecd now
 What to do now?
[14:22] <jpjacobs> start the partioning tool
[14:22] <jpjacobs> windows key, then type partition manager
 I did
 It shows my hard-drive
[14:22] <jpjacobs> great
[14:23] <jpjacobs> You did back up what you still need (from the entire drive, all partitions)?
 Yea from Linux and windows
[14:24] <jpjacobs> and you do intend to reinstall both linux and windows, right?
 Correct
[14:24] <jpjacobs> great. So press the " new partition table button" in the toolbar
 It's grayed out
[14:25] <jpjacobs> that's ... strange
[14:25] <jpjacobs> you didn't mount any partition on the drive, nor use any swap partition, right?
 Swap partition?
 I have a partition that's called Linuxswap
 And there is a lock symbol besides it
[14:26] <jpjacobs> that's it
 Do I need to click deactivate swap?
[14:27] <jpjacobs> open konsole, type sudo swapoff -a
[14:27] <jpjacobs> or that, indeed
 Ok
 Ahh now I can create a partition table
 I need to select gpt right?
[14:27] <jpjacobs> then you'll probably be asked what type you want
[14:28] <jpjacobs> indeed
 OK one sec
 OK I did
 Was that all?
 Oh I need to click apply right?
[14:30] <jpjacobs> you'll have to apply the changes
[14:30] <jpjacobs> indeed
 That was so easy
 Thanks mate
[14:30] <jpjacobs> I think now you could just give it a try to install windows, and then afterwards resize the windows install to make place for your linux partition(s)
 Yea I will just give windows like 200GB and Linux the rest
[14:31] <jpjacobs> if it doesn't work, boot into the live cd again, and create an NTFS partition.
[14:31] <jpjacobs> I don't really know the black magic that window's installer does nowadays...
 Windows should it in the setup iirc
 Haha xD
[14:32] <jpjacobs> safest to install windows first, and resize to add linux later
 Yeah probably
 Oof the shutdown button doesn't work
 But console did lmao
 Thanks again man have a great day
[14:45] <jpjacobs> you too
[14:51] <Bolvaron> Hey, ive got a problem: i had installed kubuntu to test before i completely switched. now ive got 2 versions on different disks. how can i get rid of one?
[14:55] <jpjacobs> Bolvaron: if reinstalling is not a big thing (i.e. you don't want to keep your system) it's easiest to reinstall. Otherwise you can just format the partition of the one you don't need anymore from the version you intend to keep
[14:56] <jpjacobs> But I'd take a backup of your data, and double check before pressing ok to avoid mistakes causing data loss
[14:56] <Bolvaron> ive reinstalled the system with the option to use the complete disk, but it didnt delete the other installation. If i format this, will it also get out of grub?
[14:56] <jpjacobs> strange. can you still boot the other, or did it just stick around in grub?
[14:57] <jpjacobs> after formatting, you should use sudo update-grub
[14:57] <Bolvaron> i can still boot into the other atm
[14:57] <jpjacobs> but are you sure it's a separate install, not just another kernel version??
[14:57] <Bolvaron> so i just use gparted to get rid of the other installation and then update grub?
[14:57] <Bolvaron> and yes, its my 2nd installation
[14:58] <Bolvaron> absolutely sure
 Bolvaron boot into the session you want to keep and from a terminal run:  mount | grep /sd
[14:58] <jpjacobs> I think that should doo the trick
[14:59] <Bolvaron> ok ill reboot and report back
 That will show you the partition names you do not want to delete.  Then live boot and remove then merge/extend the other partitions as desired.
[15:00] <Bolvaron> ive deleted the 2nd linux now via gparted and updated grub, trying to reboot
[15:00] <Bolvaron> will be back soon
[15:02] <Bolvaron> ok, seems to have worked
[15:03] <Bolvaron> thanks for your help with grub update, didnt know that way
 Hi I somehow minimized the installer can I bring it up again somehow?
[16:37] <diogenes_> FailBacon alt+tab
 Doesn't work
[17:06] <jordan__> Hey
[17:06] <jordan__> Hey
 Cool
[17:06] <BluesKaj> hey jordan__
[17:07] <jordan__> Hey BluesKaj
[17:07] <jordan__> What's up
[17:07] <jordan__> Man
[17:07] <BluesKaj> try the windows key, FailBacon, if you get a menu type ubiquity in the search
[17:08] <jordan__> Well what's about kubuntu
[17:08] <jordan__> I recently used it
[17:08] <BluesKaj> this is kubuntu support
[17:08] <jordan__> So I'm not sure
[17:08] <jordan__> About services
 Nothing worked eventually my machine froze I'm installing it again (without me minimizing it hopefully xD)
[17:10] <jordan__> Hey thing interesting in kubuntu
[17:10] <jordan__> Any thing interesting in kubuntu
 ?
[17:11] <Bolvaron> im beginning to love kubuntu, if uplay would work with lutris
[17:11] <BluesKaj> yeah, thousands of packages :-)
[17:12] <jordan__> What is lutris
[17:12] <Bolvaron> im a gamer and used windows for a long time
[17:12] <Bolvaron> its like a helper for wine
 Well im still sticking with shadow on kubuntu lol
[17:14] <BluesKaj> https://lutris.net/
 Is it normal that the installer freezes mid installation
 But not the PC just the installer
[17:22] <BluesKaj> why would that be normal, obviously something is erroring
 Well maybe there is a part of the installation where it needs to copy or pull so many files that it freezes
 So what should I do?
[19:41] <RamiousZoriastar> hello
[19:42] <RamiousZoriastar> I am running Linux Mint Cinnamon
[19:42] <RamiousZoriastar> I am trying to create a bootable usb of Windowsx
[19:42] <RamiousZoriastar> But
[19:42] <RamiousZoriastar> Its not booting when I  restart
[19:42] <RamiousZoriastar> I used Woeusb and all of that already
[19:42] <RamiousZoriastar> And even direct file copy method
[19:42] <Heavyarms-> did you try manually setting your bios to boot from usb?
[19:42] <RamiousZoriastar> And ultipul windows iso
[19:43] <RamiousZoriastar> Yes
[19:43] <RamiousZoriastar> I even manually go into the boot selection menu and pick it
[19:43] <RamiousZoriastar> or does it have to be set to usb as number one?
[19:43] <Heavyarms-> I believe that is the case, yes
[19:44] <RamiousZoriastar> ok. I will brb then.
[19:44] <Heavyarms-> for sure
[20:26] <mparillo> In Network Manager > Edit Network Connections, for each connection, there is a option on Connect Automatically with Priority option. I assume that way I can prefer some connections to others. Can you point me to any documentation?
[20:26] <mparillo> In Network Manager > Edit Network Connections, for each connection, there is a option on Connect Automatically with Priority option. I assume that way I can prefer some connections to others. Can you point me to any documentation?
[20:26] <mparillo> In Network Manager > Edit Network Connections, for each connection, there is a option on Connect Automatically with Priority option. I assume that way I can prefer some connections to others. Can you point me to any documentation?
[20:26] <mparillo> In Network Manager > Edit Network Connections, for each connection, there is a option on Connect Automatically with Priority option. I assume that way I can prefer some connections to others. Can you point me to any documentation?
[20:28] <mparillo> In Network Manager > Edit Network Connections, for each connection, there is a option on Connect Automatically with Priority option. I assume that way I can prefer some connections to others. Can you point me to any documentation?
[20:28] <mparillo> Oh, sorry, I did not see my scroll bar was not at the bottom.
[20:36] <bprompt> echo echo echo
[21:13] <mparillo> Mea culpa
[22:52] <kinghat> does kubuntu 18.04 not have kde backports? i added the repo and full-upgrade and it still showed 5.12.9(iirc).
[22:54] <valorie> kinghat: not everything can be backported to something so old
[22:55] <kinghat> LTS?
[23:02] <valorie> support means support
[23:02] <valorie> not endless updates
[23:03] <valorie> the base doesn't support newest Qt, frameworks, plasma
[23:03] <valorie> next LTS will
[23:07] <Bolvaron> wow, is this true? Linux uses half the memory that windows uses in the same situation
[23:08] <bprompt> Bolvaron:  unconfirmed, but doubt it, depends on many factors
[23:09] <Bolvaron> without any programs, the OS uses 800 MB RAM, windows fully booted without any programs: 2-3 GB
[23:09] <bprompt> does google chrome in *nix use less memory and cpu than google chrome on windows for the same task?  no that I can tell
[23:10] <bprompt> Bolvaron:  yes, but those 2-3gbs may well be cached and buffered content for speedy access, which aren't part of the OS core per se
[23:10] <Bolvaron> i can just see the facts, thats all, and when playing game, it uses 2 GB less than windows also
[23:11] <bprompt> Bolvaron:  I run kubuntu, but I don't use Kwin, loading Kwin, the system uses more ram than using LXQT which is what I run
[23:11] <bprompt> so, there are many factors in the process
[23:11] <Bolvaron> i run kubuntu, and while gaming im using Lutris cause of WoW
[23:13] <bprompt> I do know that, a new kubuntu install is under 10Gbs I think around 7gbs, windows10 is around 12gbs, but that's not ram, just storage
[23:22] <Bolvaron> how can i read out how much space the system needs atm?
[23:26] <bprompt> Bolvaron:  the system needs?
[23:27] <bprompt> Bolvaron:  you can always check free space with -> df / -lh


 valorie: Alaska decided to move my flight up a bit!
 Well, two hours later on both arrival and departure, but yeah
[05:16] <valorie> departure!
[05:16] <valorie> wow
[05:16] <valorie> ok
 I know
 I didn't expect this
[05:17] <valorie> reality is what it is
[05:17] <valorie> we'll deal
 Ok


[05:28] <mardy> svip: hi! I think it's because you need to run journalctl as root
[06:14] <mborzecki> morning
[06:43] <mardy> hi mborzecki
[07:03] <mborzecki> mardy: hey
[07:04] <pstolowski> morning
[07:32] <mup> PR snapd#11767 closed: osutil/disks: partition UUID lookup <Simple 😃> <factory reset 🔌> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11767>
[08:18] <pieq> Hello!
[08:18] <pieq> I'm having a problem when trying to access my snap's listing (https://snapcraft.io/<my snap>/listing)
[08:19] <pieq> No matter the snap, I always end on a `Internal Server Error` page
[08:19] <pieq> but https://status.snapcraft.io/ is telling me everything's fine... :)
[08:21] <pstolowski> pieq: right (just checked), best if you report it via one of the links under the error
[08:21] <pstolowski> forum will be fastest
[08:23] <pstolowski> pieq: actually, let me quickly take it to the right people
[08:32] <mup> PR snapd#11783 opened: debug-tools: list all snaps <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11783>
[08:34] <pstolowski> pieq: webteam is looking into this
[08:43] <mup> PR core#131 opened: hooks: add empty /etc/default/crda and make writable <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/131>
[09:00] <jamesh> mvo: fyi, I've marked https://github.com/seccomp/libseccomp/pull/384 as ready for review now. Lets see what upstream thinks.
[09:00] <mup> PR seccomp/libseccomp#384: RFE: add support for comparisons against 32-bit arguments <Created by jhenstridge> <https://github.com/seccomp/libseccomp/pull/384>
[10:01] <pstolowski> pieq: that should be fixed now
[10:11] <mvo> jamesh: nice, thank you!
[10:12] <mup> PR snapd#11776 closed: cmd/snap: join search terms passed in the command line <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11776>
[11:16] <mup> PR snapcraft#3739 closed: legacy: plugins: convert paths to strings for commands <Created by mr-cal> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3739>
[12:45] <sil2100> mvo: hey! So I see a new version of snapd in jammy, but not uploaded to kinetic. Should I review it for jammy and then forward-copy with binaries to kinetic?
[12:45] <sil2100> I'd prefer a separate kinetic-specific upload as building snapd will take a while and w emight forget about the forward-copy then
[12:53] <mup> PR snapd#11784 opened: secboot: support for changing encryption keys via keymgr <factory reset 🔌> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11784>
[13:08] <mup> PR snapd#11783 closed: debug-tools: list all snaps <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11783>
[13:18] <mup> PR snapd#11612 closed: client/clientutil: add shared code for printing model assertions as yaml or json (1/3) <Complex> <Created by Meulengracht> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11612>
[13:26] <sil2100> mvo: left additional comments on the bug attached to the SRU (the 2.55 bug..?)
[21:24] <mup> Bug #1973245 opened: Unable to get NTP server name and/or address <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1973245>
[21:30] <mup> Bug #1973245 changed: Unable to get NTP server name and/or address <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1973245>
[21:36] <mup> Bug #1973245 opened: Unable to get NTP server name and/or address <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1973245>
[22:26] <mup> PR snapd#11785 opened: RFC: WSL2 GPU support in strict confinement <Created by diddledani> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11785>


[00:32] <Unit193> k1l_: All of the beginners channels are, should be forwarded or invite only.
[01:46] <rww> IdleOne: did phunyguy get bantracker access? i forget if that's an immediate thing
[01:47] <IdleOne> I don't believe he has yet and will have to check on that.
[01:47] <rww> okays
[01:47] <Unit193> Last I knew, you got it after a while.
[01:47] <rww> @login
[01:48] <IdleOne> suppose he could try @login
[01:48] <rww> true
[01:48] <rww> phunyguy: ^^
[01:49] <phunyguy> @login
[01:49] <phunyguy> ;__;
[01:49] <IdleOne> yeah, not added yet
[01:49] <IdleOne> but he should still be able to comment on any bans/removes he places
[01:50] <tsimpson> probably not
[01:50] <Pici> only registered/logged in users can use other @commands
[01:50] <Pici> iirc
[01:51] <tsimpson> @useradd phunyguy
[01:51] <tsimpson> @Admin capability add phunyguy bantracker
[01:52] <IdleOne> well there ya go
[01:52] <Pici> woo
[01:52] <phunyguy> \o/
[01:52] <Pici> tsimpson: thanks :)
[01:52] <rww> phunyguy: @login again?
[01:52] <phunyguy> @login
[01:52] <rww> phunyguy: @btlogin, grab the link it PMs you, and we'll go back to PM for the tour
[01:52] <phunyguy> might need a crash course on this
[01:52] <rww> @btlogin
[01:52] <phunyguy> @btlogin
[01:53] <IdleOne> don't share that link
[01:53] <IdleOne> :)
[01:53] <phunyguy> I know :)
[01:54] <LjL-Landan> or, only share it with people who will enjoy gossiping about it
[01:54] <LjL-Landan> that's what i do
[01:54] <IdleOne> right
[01:54] <IdleOne> don't let us know you shared that link*
[01:55] <tsimpson> the session is tied to your nick, so we'll know who's responsible :)
[01:55] <IdleOne> don't let tsimpson find out**
[01:56] <LjL-Landan> IdleOne, what i meant to say is, i would do that if there was no obvious security issue with doing that
[01:56] <LjL-Landan> of course i would never actually do that
[01:56] <tsimpson> I has logs >:)
[01:56] <rww> but do you check the logs!
[01:57] <tsimpson> every now and then
[01:57] <IdleOne> he's checking them now
[01:57] <IdleOne> :)
[01:57] <LjL-Landan> tsimpson then please tell me the IPs of the people i did (not) share my sessions with, i would actually not mind knowing them
[01:58] <tsimpson> sorry, that information is not publicly available
[01:58]  * tsimpson runs away
[01:59] <rww> does it invalidate previous session keys when you @btlogin now
[01:59] <rww> i forget if that change got made
[01:59] <tsimpson> no, you just get a new session
[01:59] <rww> :c
[01:59] <tsimpson> but old sessions disappear after some time
[02:01] <tsimpson> I've been thinking about using the SSO stuff, but it make by brain itch
[02:02] <Unit193> Eww, thanks for not doing so. :)
[02:02] <LjL-Landan> tsimpson: that sounded so much like freenode staff :(
[02:03] <rww> LjL-Landan: he answered at all, so no ;(
[02:08] <elky> so what's this i hear about someone having the bright idea of letting rww train up new ops now?
[02:09] <rww> elky: you're not allowed to be a mentor, you're not even good at deopping yourself
[02:09] <phunyguy> ;__;
[02:09] <rww> lol i can do that now
[02:11] <IdleOne> rww wanted back in
[02:11] <IdleOne> well he is all the way back
[02:11] <rww> hot
[02:11] <elky> i knew that. but the innocent newbies
[02:11] <elky> the poor innnocent newbops
[02:12] <IdleOne> I think they will compliment each other OR contribute to each others self destruction
[02:12] <IdleOne> either way. WE WIN
[02:12] <rww> compliment or complement?
[02:12] <IdleOne> both
[02:13] <rww> phunyguy: you're pretty funny
[02:14] <phunyguy> no u
[02:24] <elky> I thought he was phuny.
[02:24] <rww> elky: he's also punny
[02:26] <phunyguy> and a puny human
[02:36] <Jordan_U> Does new in #ubuntu not realise that Ubuntu 12.04 is a newer version of Ubuntu and 10.04 an older one? I think they may think they're different "versions" in a different sense, like different distributions or flavors.
[02:39] <rww> heh, autobleh hasn't had a new version in 2 years
[02:39] <rww> is it perfect or unmaintained
[02:42] <Unit193> rww: Try setting a /topicset with ':' in it. :)
[02:42] <Unit193> Build: 20140122   for example.
[03:37] <rww> updated ops factoids for the relevant channels to add me and phunyguy
[03:37] <phunyguy> ty
[03:40] <IdleOne> that reminds me!
[06:10] <rww> on it ^
[06:12] <rww> staff notified for cross-channel spam
[07:34] <linus> i was banned for no reason by  k1l_
[07:36] <Myrtti> which channel and when?
[07:37] <linus>  ChanServ gives channel operator status to k1l_
[07:37] <linus> * k1l_ sets ban on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:37] <Myrtti> that doesn't really answer my question
[07:38] <linus> #ubuntu 2days ago
[07:39] <linus> i can send u the logs
[07:40] <Myrtti> right, no need
[09:13] <AlanBell> linus: I think you have been banned under your rampageripper name
[09:14] <linus> so u don't like it?
[09:15] <AlanBell> we don't like you evading an existing ban, no
[09:15] <linus> u mean i was already banned before?
[09:19] <linus> but i haven't joined #ubuntu so long ago
[09:19] <AlanBell> linus: yeah, you were using the nick lalala_ooops previously I believe
[09:23] <ikonia> you where in ubuntu 2 days ago
[09:23] <ikonia> and you where told you where evading a ban
[09:25] <linus> actually i wasn't trying to evade bans .and what is this ban about afterall?
[09:25] <ikonia> oh, so you've not been in #ubuntu for ages...but now you remember the conversation from two days ago
[09:25] <ikonia> that's a shocking change
[09:26] <AlanBell> huh ikonia?
[09:26] <AlanBell> the ban was two days ago :)
[09:26] <AlanBell> on the ip address
[09:27] <ikonia> yes....
[09:27] <AlanBell> linus: so clearly a couple of days ago you wanted actual sensible support in #ubuntu
[09:27] <ikonia> and the cloak
[09:27] <AlanBell> but back in November on the 17th you wanted to mess about
[09:27] <ikonia> the ban was also on the cloak
[09:28] <AlanBell> we can't have people messing about in the channel just being attention seeking, and then asking for people to support them
[09:28] <linus> AlanBell, absolutely true
[09:38] <AlanBell> so, are you are going to use the channel for sensible support related reasons and not silly stuff like you did here http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/17/%23ubuntu.html
[09:47] <linus> i can't find anything in this paste in concern
[09:48] <AlanBell> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/17/%23ubuntu.html#t14:04
[09:49] <AlanBell> the lalala_ooops stuff is not really the typical support question that the #ubuntu channel can assist with
[10:04] <linus> ok,i won't discuss it an let's forget about all that.now how
[10:05] <linus> to  out an end to this ban?
[10:18] <AlanBell> linus: ok, the bans have been removed, please use the channel for support questions and absolutely don't try to evade any ban in future by dropping the cloak
[10:19] <linus> ok,thanx AlanBell
[12:08] <Pricey> Whose idea was it to approve rww for anything?
[12:10] <bazhang> heaven knows
[12:10] <bazhang> phunyguy, welcome!
[12:10] <bazhang> or condolences
[13:04] <Myrtti> it has to be some kind of black magic
[13:04] <Myrtti> please take note: if there's someone cycling out of #ubuntu due to Max SendQ error, just op me up
[13:04] <Myrtti> (and please later on deop me as well)
[13:05] <Myrtti> it seems to work magic in stabilising connections.
[13:07] <ikonia> ??
[13:07] <Myrtti> opped up to banforward jypie to fix your connection
[13:08] <ikonia> ah
[13:08] <Myrtti> and after opping up I always wait for them to cycle once more
[13:08] <Myrtti> it seems to stop there as by telepathic instructions in about 50% of cases
[13:08] <Myrtti> but twice today
[13:18] <k1l> the .co.za ip rings some bells
[13:19] <ikonia> he's done it a few times
[13:19] <ikonia> I normally just boot him on site, but I was a bit slow
[13:21] <k1l> your are getting old ;p
[17:08] <phunyguy> bazhang: thank you!
[19:57] <AcerChrome> !ops
[19:57] <AcerChrome> !staff
[19:57] <AcerChrome> -_-
[19:59] <ikonia> I'm repenting
[20:04] <Pricey> Surely they've worked out the scope of the ignore already..
[20:05] <ikonia> it would appear not
[20:05] <ikonia> perhaps more credit to IQ has been given than should have been
[20:14] <rww> Myrtti: that happens to me a lot too. I used to just +b straight away, but it magically stops when I op up often enough that I wait too now
[23:09] <k1l> @mark #ubuntu BullSherd ref-spam link


[09:51] <duflu> alan_g: In case you didn't notice, I rejigged Mir to show 0.27 is the focus of development again.
[09:51] <duflu> And corresponding changelogs proposed
[09:52] <duflu> Oh, you did notice one of them
[09:52] <alan_g> duflu: I saw the MP, not looked further yet. Thanks for that.
[09:53] <duflu> alan_g: I'm not sure what value there is having any bugs assigned to future milestone 0.28.0 though
[09:53] <duflu> And 0.27 would be wrong. Maybe remove the whole 0.28 series
[09:54] <alan_g> duflu: we're /probably/ doing 1.0 right after 0.27
[09:54] <duflu> Because 0.28.0 shows up as assignable in bugs, which is confusing
[09:55] <alan_g> Yes, dropping the 0.28 series makes sense
[09:55] <alan_g> We can always resurrect it
[10:00] <duflu> Done. https://launchpad.net/mir/+series


[08:14] <k1412> Hello, I have a little question. How do we configure network-control for an existing snapd application. I don't find a complete tutorial about it.
[09:57] <mup> PR snapd#5886 opened: [testing] [pre-rfc] [wip] split spread in travis <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5886>
[12:49] <zyga> k1412: hey,
[12:49] <zyga> k1412: just add a network-control slot to your snapcraft.yaml file
[12:49] <zyga> then connect it
[12:49] <zyga> it grants numerous permissions to setup networking
[12:50] <k1412> Hello zyga, it work also if we installed it with snap install anbox --devmode --beta ? Because in this case I not know where is the yaml file exactly
[12:51] <zyga> k1412: what are you trying to do exactly?
[12:51] <zyga> are you making a new snap
[12:51] <zyga> or changing an existing snap?
[12:52] <k1412> Changing an existing one, I want launch it isolate in a defined network namespace
[12:55] <k1412> zyga: normaly I launch my application with ip netns exec but for snapd it fail with an error so I saw he info about network-control
[12:55] <zyga> mmm
[12:55] <zyga> you can repack a snap but I would not recommend to do that
[12:56] <k1412> zyga: it look a little compicate when I hear that ^^, maybe the error message can help to understand the issue ?
[12:56] <zyga> k1412: snapd doesn't use network namespaces
[12:56] <zyga> so you should be able to just wrap the whole thing with a new network namespace
[12:56] <zyga> and run any snap this way
[12:57] <k1412> zyga: this is the error I have when I try to run my snap with ip netns
[12:57] <k1412> cannot execute snap-update-ns: Permission denied
[12:57] <k1412> snap-update-ns failed with code 1: File exists
[12:58] <zyga> do you have any apparmor denials in syslog/journald?
[12:58] <k1412> I use debian so I think there is maybe a default configuration (this is the command I use for launch it sudo ip netns exec protected sudo -u $USER snap run anbox)
[13:00] <zyga> what is 'protected'?
[13:00] <zyga> and what are you trying to achieve?
[13:00] <zyga> anbox snap is just an installer last time I checked
[13:00] <zyga> it requires some thighs that may or may not work on Debian (I don't know)
[13:02] <k1412> protected is my network namespace I created before, I want be sure that anbox only use the interface that I allow to use (example  no connection, vpn, lan network)
[13:03] <k1412> zyga: the normal launch (snap run anbox) is working
[13:12] <zyga> Mmm. I see
[13:12] <zyga> TBH not sure why it fails
[13:15] <k1412> zyga: no issue, i will try to have some answers from firejail too because they have a snapd profile but it look failling too (https://privatebin.net/?299984217221dd99#Iv9/L1Q49cU41it7bVeo2zjRIqKt9mAHD3JO7/SKy00=)
[13:16] <zyga> Frankly unless you want to jump into kernel and snapd confining snapd is not an easy task
[13:16] <zyga> Perhaps run it in a VM
[13:16] <zyga> If you want to investigate what is going on at that level then all the power to you
[13:16] <zyga> Just want to say it is severely complicated.
[13:17] <k1412> I'm not good enough to going so far away ^^ maybe a complete chroot with firejail would be more easy
[13:20] <zyga> I doubt it
[13:20] <zyga> Firejail is just another level of apparmor and seccomp
[13:20] <zyga> So more complexity and kernel interaction
[13:20] <zyga> And snap changes profiles
[13:21] <zyga> So unless firejail stacks (and that is a super new feature in apparmor itself) you may effectively NOP
[13:21] <zyga> Firejail won’t confine snap apps
[13:21] <zyga> (Again, just a theory)
[13:22] <k1412> I will try it to see, it would be a lot of fun ^^ (that is assuming that snapd can work in something like a chroot, I'm already not sure about it)
[13:23] <zyga> Well, snapd talks to systemd
[13:23] <zyga> And to the kernel
[13:24] <zyga> I’m unsure your actions make sense in trying to prevent snapd from affecting your system
[13:26] <k1412> It's more that if it can work in a chroot (like another system) I just need to pass my complete chroot to my network namespace (but that is many theory) I will begin to just try to run snap from a chroot and see what happen
[13:27] <zyga> Snapd can get out of a chroot
[13:27] <zyga> Choot is not effective confinement
[13:28] <k1412> zyga: Ah ? there is a way to test it (in same time so I can try it a little)
[13:34] <zyga> k1412: test what specifically?
[13:35] <k1412> zyga: to exit a chroot with snap
[13:35] <zyga> k1412: all of those things have complex interactions; it seems you are trying to harden your installation of snapd; to effectively measure if the hardening makes any changes you'd have to know how snapd operates and how the kernel features it uses and (+chroot + fire jail) interact with each other; then you could try to mount an attack to see if the contraption works
[13:36] <zyga> k1412: snap-confine does this
[13:36] <zyga> I don't think this is sensible confinement
[13:36] <zyga> because it deals with sandboxing of apps snapd is not a typical service that can be sandboxed easily
[13:37] <zyga> the permissions snapd _can_ grant applications are equivalent of sandbox escape in some cases
[13:37] <zyga> so it's really meaningless to chroot it
[13:38] <k1412> I see, to be honnest i just try to find a way to affect it to a network namespace I want but without rebuilding a snap. Maybe you have reason it's maybe more easy to run it in virtualbox and assign virtualbox to a network namespace
[13:38] <zyga> I don't know why it failed for you in the most straightforward case
[13:38] <zyga> I'd look at debugging that
[13:39] <zyga> strace ip setns
[13:39] <zyga> see what happens
[13:44] <k1412> zyga: it look complaining about the uid that is not 0 and think that sudo is maybe with suid or without root rights (it's maybe related when i do sudo -u the second time)
[13:45] <zyga> it == ip setns?
[13:46] <k1412> zyga: snap i can copy paste the log of strace but it's in french, i'm not sure it will help
[13:46] <zyga> I think I'm too tired to debug that
[13:47] <k1412> No issue thanks for giving me some tracks that can help
[14:59] <erio> :O
[14:59] <erio> damn
[14:59] <erio> https://github.com/search?q=depends-on-alsa&type=Code
[15:02] <erio> https://www.google.com/search?q=%22depends-on-alsa%3A%22+%22snapcraft.yaml%22&oq=%22depends-on-alsa%3A%22+%22snapcraft.yaml%22&aqs=chrome..69i57.10368j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
[15:31] <erio> anyone here?
[17:30] <erio> :O
[18:01] <erio> :o
[18:59] <erio> ?
[20:32] <mup> PR snapd#5887 opened: tests: moving core-snap-refresh-on-core test from main to nested suite <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5887>
[20:41] <erio> could someone explain me wth is stage and wth is prime ?
[20:41] <erio> the definition in the docs is just awful
[23:44] <erio> anyone online?
[23:49] <erio> anyone online?


[03:13] <CavemanZipper> Kernel Panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown block
[03:13] <CavemanZipper> I see this and a whole bunch of other lines
[03:13] <CavemanZipper> When I boot up Ubuntu
[03:13] <CavemanZipper> I downloaded through WUBI on their website,
[03:13] <CavemanZipper> Any ideas?
[03:13] <CavemanZipper> Someone suggested loading the iso onto a cd and running it from there
[03:15] <Unit193> Yeah, don't use wubi.
[03:15] <Unit193> !burn
[03:15] <ubot2> CD/DVD burning software: k3b (KDE), brasero (GNOME), gnomebaker, xcdroast, wodim (command-line) | To burn ISO files, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
[04:35] <CavemanZipper> will running from the iso be stable?
[07:33] <anup> ??
[07:33] <anup> :S
[07:33] <anup> any one here?
[07:34] <geirha> depends on how hard your question will be
[07:34] <anup> okay!
[07:34] <geirha> :)
[07:34] <anup> how to install tar.gz file?
[07:35] <anup> i'm trying terminal and it's kinds tedious to install:S
[07:35]  * geirha runs like the wind!
[07:35] <anup> is it a hard question?
[07:35]  * hobgoblin follows in the slipsream
[07:35] <geirha> There's no one solution for "installing tar.gz" files
[07:35] <anup> :Shmm
[07:36] <Unit193> Unless you know what you're doing, you really shouldn't install that way and just use the repos.
[07:36] <Unit193> hobgoblin: Andromeda?
[07:36] <geirha> a tar.gz file is a compressed archive. It could contain anything.
[07:36] <anup> should i to move that tar file to trash folder?
[07:36] <anup> it's flash player
[07:36] <anup> adobe
[07:37] <anup> sudo apt-get install flashplayer
[07:37] <anup> how's it?:S
[07:37] <anup> how to locate directories
[07:38] <anup> :Si've a billion of queries about ubuntu:D
[07:38] <hobgoblin> I suspect that the majority will have been asked before ;)
[07:39] <geirha> You want the flash player for your web browser?  Open the software center, search for flash, install
[07:39] <anup> i guess that majority 'll keep asking:D
[07:39] <anup> software centre
[07:39] <anup> k. trying!
[07:39] <anup> thank you if it works!:D
[07:40] <anup> damn! fp was there. now installing. . .
[07:42] <anup> ty! again. I'm getting suffocation better if i leave out.:D
[07:43] <geirha> Or possibly star trek voyager
[07:43] <hobgoblin> blake's 7 ...
[07:44] <hobgoblin> never admit to knowing blake's 7
[07:45] <geirha> never heard of it
[07:45]  * hobgoblin neither
[07:55] <geirha> ... yes you have
[07:56] <hobgoblin> :p