[00:55] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Good morning. Or afternoon, depending.
[00:55] <robert_ancell> RAOF, hello
[00:56] <RAOF> Does lightdm have a tool to parse/modify lightdm.conf?
[00:57] <robert_ancell> RAOF, /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults
[01:00] <RAOF> Sweet, thanks.
[01:01] <RAOF> Hm. Presumably that could be trivially extended to support changing the session type, right?
[01:01] <robert_ancell> RAOF, yes
[01:04] <RAOF> Excellent.
[01:05] <RAOF> Hurray for awesome upstreams.
[01:59] <thomi> RAOF: hey - it sounds like maybe no decision was reached last night regarding the client API fd issue?
[01:59] <thomi> at least, no message to the ML or merges to change anything.
[02:04] <RAOF> thomi: Oh, I'll prepare a merge nom
[02:05] <thomi> RAOF: cool - I wasn't sure what the final consensus was
[02:05] <thomi> RAOF: all I know is that IMO we're currently violating the "make it hard to use incorrectly" tenet of API design.
[02:05] <RAOF> Indeed.
[02:05]  * thomi likes being the bumbling idiot to find all the problems your *real* users will find in the future
[02:08] <thomi> robert_ancell: so, are you back at work, or just lurking?
[02:13] <thomi> just lurking I guess :)
[02:16] <thomi> RAOF: in the mean time, do you know off the top of your head what I need to do to close that FD?
[02:16] <RAOF> thomi: close(platform_package.fd[0]) should do it.
[02:18] <thomi> RAOF: I'd need to call mir_connection_get_platform(my_connection, &my_platform_package) first, to populate those FDs, right?
[02:18] <RAOF> Right
[02:18] <robert_ancell> thomi, back to work
[02:18] <robert_ancell> (I am)
[02:18] <thomi> robert_ancell: cool!
[04:20] <thomi> RAOF: what's the name members used for in MirSurfaceParameters?
[04:20] <thomi> does it have to be the same as the name passed to mir_connect?
[04:20] <RAOF> ...
[04:20] <thomi> and if so, why can't it just be copied from the connection?
[04:20] <RAOF> I was going to say the application's ID, but that's clearly not right :)
[04:21] <thomi> the examples just use the same string as the application name
[04:21] <thomi> (i.e.- __PRETTY_FUNCTION__)
[04:21] <RAOF> So, there's good reason to name surfaces; for example, the title bar.
[04:22] <RAOF> I don't know of anything that's using that information right now, though.
[04:23] <thomi> ok
[04:23] <thomi> RAOF: I think something useful I could be doing is adding to the doxygen documentation of these types, but I wonder if anyone would object?
[04:23] <RAOF> Why?
[04:24] <thomi> dunno - I assumed they were undocumented for a reason
[04:24] <RAOF> The reason is almost certainly “no one bothered documenting it”
[04:26] <thomi> ok, I might start documenting things as I go
[04:43] <thomi> hmmm, I seem to have broken something, such that now mir_connect_sync hangs forever
[04:43] <thomi> even after restarting mir_demo_server O.0
[07:30] <hikiko> alf_, are you busy?
[07:31] <alf_> hikiko: hi, what's up?
[07:34] <hikiko> I can't find the EGLNativeWindowType anywhere and I wonder what is it... I guess something like the EGLNativeDisplay, but I wonder why we use it
[07:35] <hikiko> (client/gbm/gbm_platform.h/cpp)
[07:37] <alf_> hikiko: EGLNativeWindowType is an EGL type. It is an opaque handle for the native window type.
[07:39] <alf_> hikiko: we give it to the client so they can use EGL functions to set up the rendering context
[07:40] <hikiko> which is the context we created in the server?
[07:42] <alf_> hikiko: no, a new rendering context they can use to draw on a MirSurface
[07:43] <hikiko> so this is a context created in the client
[07:43] <hikiko> by the client*
[07:44] <hikiko> and the NativeWindow is the pc/android window that the client "sees" in his screen?
[07:44] <hikiko> or something else?
[07:46] <hikiko> I am trying to understand if I need to create another context using sdl or I can use the egl functions as they are, but I am not sure I understood 100% what's going on in the client platform :S
[07:46] <alf_> hikiko: yes, window == visible surface (whatever that may mean for each windowing system)
[07:47] <hikiko> ok, so I forget about all this and I create an sdl window again in the platform part...
[07:47] <alf_> hikiko: no, when using mirclient, the native window is a MirSurface
[07:49] <alf_> hikiko: or to be more exact some representation of MirSurfaces that the EGL system can use
[07:50] <alf_> hikiko: why can't you just compile with the gbm backend for now, until the server part is finished, and then move to the client part?
[07:50] <hikiko> because
[07:50] <hikiko> you can't use the gbm as it is
[07:51] <hikiko> one sec I ll show you
[07:51] <hikiko> irPlatformType mclg::GBMClientPlatform::platform_type() const
[07:51] <hikiko> {
[07:51] <hikiko>     return mir_platform_type_gbm;
[07:51] <hikiko> }
[07:51] <hikiko> each client platform
[07:51] <hikiko> has this function
[07:51] <hikiko> android returns android, gbm returns gbm, I have to return sdl
[07:52] <hikiko> mmm
[07:52] <hikiko> if i use gbm as it is
[07:52] <alf_> hikiko: It doesn't matter for now, the first step is to get the server-side examples working. Sure, the client side won't work, but we can fix this later.
[07:53] <hikiko> yes that's what I am trying to do :s ok let me try something.. bbl (+thanks!)
[07:59] <hikiko> btw alf_ is there any way to exclude gmock... of the build?
[07:59] <hikiko> I get tones of errors there
[08:01] <tvoss> hikiko, what kinds of erros?
[08:02] <hikiko> tvoss, about wrong declarations, syntax errors in templates and I end up with:
[08:02] <hikiko> fatal error: too many errors emitted, stopping now [-ferror-limit=]
[08:02] <tvoss> hikiko, then it's highly likely that you have an error somewhere in your header files. GMock compiles just fine in general
[08:03]  * tvoss notes that almost always one's own code is wrong :)
[08:03] <hikiko> tvoss, I was getting errors even when I was compiling the trunk
[08:03] <hikiko> just now they become fatal
[08:03] <hikiko> so, it's not only my header files
[08:03] <tvoss> hikiko, compilation works fine in CI and autolanding
[08:03] <hikiko> ok, then I ll change my compile params...
[08:04] <hikiko> :D
[08:04] <tvoss> hikiko, why do you have custom compile params?
[08:05] <hikiko> well, I use clang because each time I have an error like: forgot to include a header file, I trigger a gcc internal compiler error
[08:05] <hikiko> it was faster to change the env var and use clang
[08:05] <hikiko> than compile the next gcc versions
[08:05] <tvoss> hikiko, which gcc version are you using?
[08:05] <tvoss> hikiko, saucy has gcc 4.8
[08:05] <hikiko> gcc version 4.7.3 (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.7.3-1ubuntu1)
[08:06] <hikiko> I am still using raring tvoss
[08:06] <hikiko> do you think I have to upgrade?
[08:06] <tvoss> hikiko, not sure, but gcc 4.7.3 is quite stable for me
[08:07] <hikiko> well in my case it was crashing all the time with internal compiler error and no clue about the problem it triggered it
[08:07] <hikiko> so I gave up and replaced it
[08:09] <alan_g> tvoss: ping
[08:09] <tvoss> hikiko, at any rate, you should not need to compile a toolchain on your own: see https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-toolchain-r/+archive/test
[08:09] <tvoss> alan_g, pong
[08:10] <alan_g> tvoss:  did you see RAOF's email "Mir in Ubuntu"? IMO it raises some architectural issues...
[08:11] <tvoss> alan_g, yup, have seen it ... what are those issues?
[08:11] <alan_g> tvoss: we should have a plan for stabilizing ABI and comms protocol
[08:11] <tvoss> alan_g, yup, agreed
[08:11] <alan_g> Because it is starting to impact other components
[08:12] <alan_g> tvoss: is that something you should be driving? Or who?
[08:12] <tvoss> alan_g, I would think that the ABI stability is a requirements towards Mir and the team should just pick it up. But I'm happy to trigger the discussion
[08:14] <RAOF> I don't think comms protocol is particularly important to stabilise at this point - although backwards compatibility in comms protocol might be soon.
[08:14] <RAOF> But needing to rebuild unity-system-compositor for each Mir commit clearly won't scale to the distro.
[08:15] <tvoss> RAOF, fully agreed
[08:15] <alan_g> RAOF: ack (although I think we should prepare the way by adding version info to the protocol - even if we ignore it)
[08:16] <RAOF> alan_g: +1
[08:16] <RAOF> We should at least be able to return a sensible "whoops, this won't work" error.
[08:20] <alan_g> RAOF: We can return an error string containing "whoops, this won't work" - does that count? ;)
[08:20] <RAOF> alan_g: As long as it can be translated ☺
[09:35] <hikiko> alf_, what happened to the drm authenticator?
[09:36] <alf_> hikiko: it was removed, but it seems that we will need to reinstate it after all
[09:36] <hikiko> :S
[09:36] <hikiko> well without it my branch doesn't compile anymore
[09:37] <hikiko> I use the authenticator to register my drm device fd
[09:48] <alf_> hikiko: Why do you need to register a drm device fd?
[09:49] <hikiko> actually I have to tell the xserver
[09:49] <hikiko> which is my drm fd
[09:49] <alan_g> alf_: I'm not sure I've used it since rebuilding my system - is s-jenkins working for you?
[09:49] <tvoss> alan_g, it's down
[09:50] <alan_g> tvoss: ta
[09:51] <alf_> hikiko: Why is this needed for the SDLDisplay?
[09:51] <hikiko> if you want to create a gbm buffer
[09:51] <hikiko> you need the drm fd
[09:51] <hikiko> there's no other way
[09:52] <hikiko> but if you open a drm fd
[09:52] <hikiko> you need to authenticate
[09:52] <hikiko> tell the xserver that you will use this device
[09:52] <hikiko> otherwise you wont have permissions to do anything
[09:53] <alf_> hikiko: right, but my question still stands: why do you need to create a gbm buffer for the SDLDisplay (I mean that class in particular, not the sdl backend in general).
[09:54] <hikiko> because you use the gbm buffers in the ipc mechanism
[09:54] <hikiko> and you told me that there's no point to create my own type of buffers
[09:54] <hikiko> last month :s
[09:55] <hikiko> +the gbm buffer allocator is part of the gbm platform which is used in the display
[09:55] <hikiko> sorry
[09:55] <hikiko> you asked for the display ^^
[09:58] <alf_> hikiko: That's true, you don't need gbm buffers in the SDLDisplay class, you need them in the buffer allocator. My proposal for step 1 is to get SDLDisplay + render_to_fb to work, which doesn't involve the buffer allocator or any IPC/client code. I think that's the easiest way (step by step) to move forward, otherwise there are just too many things to take care of at once.
[09:59] <alf_> hikiko: then step 2 is getting the buffer allocator + render_surfaces to work, step 3 is IPC/client side rendering.
[10:05] <alf_> hikiko: that is, for step 1 you just need an SDLPlatform that returns a proper SDLDisplay and stub implementations for everything else
[12:55] <racarr> Good morning!
[13:26] <kgunn> racarr mornin'
[13:26] <kgunn> awfully early
[13:27] <alan_g> kgunn: racarr afternoon (not very early)
[13:27] <racarr> Morning all :)
[13:27] <kgunn> afternoon alan_g
[13:33] <racarr> alan_g: Can I explain "friend class SessionManager" from rebuild input targets
[13:33] <racarr> Am having trouble coming up with a better solution
[13:35] <alan_g> racarr: I guess you have the right. ;) (Although I've not tried for a deep understanding yet.)
[13:36] <racarr> I just meant I am asking for help :)
[13:36] <racarr> basically the problem is, now that ms::Surface is the input target
[13:36] <racarr> how can the shell with an msh::Surface give it keyboard focus (through the InputTargeter)
[13:37] <racarr> so I added msh::Surface::internal_surface, protected, and let the SessionManager use it -.-
[13:38] <racarr> it could also be InputTargeter instead of session manager.
[13:38] <racarr> or the even the InputRegistrar, could be the only one to use internal_surface, and it exposes like handle_for_surface(std::shared_ptr<msh::Surface>...) which the targeter uses
[13:38] <racarr> but I don't know. none of these (including friending the SessionManager)
[13:39] <racarr> are particularly compelling
[13:41] <alan_g> racarr: I've a feeling that the relationship between ms::Surface and msh::Surface is wrong. (And that things being modelled as attributes should be associations) Maybe this is part of the same issue.
[13:42] <racarr> alan_g: Hmm I think it is part of the same stickiness...what do you mean by attributes vs assosciations though?
[13:44] <alan_g> racarr: Let me try an example...
[13:45] <alan_g> A board game piece could have a "black" or "white" color attribute
[13:46] <alan_g> Or it could associated (e.g. in a set of) with "black pieces" or a with "white pieces"
[13:46] <racarr> vs some sort of external assosciation?
[13:46] <racarr> mm
[13:46] <racarr> I see
[13:47] <racarr> So you mean ::type/::state
[13:47] <racarr> give msh::Surface dual roles?
[13:47] <racarr> because without that it's just a resource managing class
[13:47] <racarr> (input did too, but now input is moved down)
[13:49] <alan_g> racarr: that's what I mean. Not sure my "unease" actually points to a solution.
[13:53] <racarr> alan_g: Hmm.
[13:53] <racarr> alan_g: Maybe the "solution" is to remove the friend/protected
[13:53] <racarr> resource managing classes typically expose something like that
[13:53] <racarr> and then aim at moving the state somewhere else
[13:55] <alan_g> racarr: certainly adding a friend to access a *protected* member seems odd
[13:56] <alan_g> racarr: and does internal_surface() need to be virtual?
[13:56] <racarr> No definitely not
[13:57] <racarr> it should probably return
[13:57] <racarr> weak_ptr?
[13:57] <racarr> as well
[13:58] <racarr> or throw an exception
[13:58] <alan_g> racarr: Possibly - or check the lock succeeds
[13:59] <racarr> alan_g: My current leading theory is remove the protected and friend class, remove the virtual, add an exception + tests for internal_surface
[14:01] <alan_g> racarr: actually, looking at where internal_surface() is used - could it be replaced by update_input_focus(InputTargetListener&) ?
[14:02] <racarr> It could.
[14:02] <racarr> hmm
[14:03] <racarr> well
[14:03] <racarr> except then InputTargetListener wants shared_ptr, which is maybe another bug?
[14:03] <racarr> I'm not sure that isn't more coupled though...im trying to think about how the tests would look
[14:06] <alan_g> racarr: is it more coupled? Then session manager doesn't need to know how the input target is moved (it doesn't need to get a ms::Surface from one place and pass it to another.
[14:07] <racarr> but the same way msh::Surface doesn't need to know about an InputTargetListener
[14:07] <racarr>  / how it receives focus
[14:07] <racarr> right now it doesnt even need to know if it has focus but eventually it will
[14:10] <racarr> I can see the appeal of update_input_focus
[14:11] <alan_g> "tell don't ask" ;)
[14:11] <racarr> it makes me uneasy though because I dont
[14:11] <racarr> think of focus as an attribute
[14:11] <racarr> of the surface.
[14:12] <racarr> though I guess it' clear with the InputTargetListener...
[14:12] <alan_g> "attribute" or "association"?
[14:12] <racarr> its
[14:12] <racarr> an assosciation
[14:13] <racarr> focus is assosciated with the surface (in the InputDispatcher as it stands)
[14:13] <racarr> but the surface isn't told, hey you got focus, hey you lost focus, etc.
[14:13] <alan_g> but that "surface" is the ms::Surface, not the msh::Surface
[14:14] <racarr> mm
[14:14] <racarr> Ugh
[14:14] <racarr> the reference issues
[14:14] <racarr> are difficult to solve :p
[14:14] <racarr> if you want to do it this way then InputTargetListener has to take
[14:15] <alan_g> a weak_ptr - or a proxy
[14:15] <alan_g> yep
[14:15] <racarr> ms::Surface&, so then the window handle repository has to take ms::Surface&
[14:15] <racarr> and
[14:15] <racarr> and so the surface stack :p
[14:15] <racarr> or a weak_ptr perhaps...?
[14:15] <racarr> thinkthink*
[14:16] <racarr> it's not that bad either way
[14:19] <alan_g> racarr: what isn't clear to me is what should happen to input if the focussed surface is zapped. (But I'll leave that as an exercise..."
[14:19] <alan_g> s/"/)
[14:19] <racarr> alan_g: Another possible way to solve this is with operator== overload
[14:20] <racarr> but it's kind of hairy
[14:20]  * alan_g headdesk
[14:20] <racarr> hmm, if the focused surface is zapped, then the InputDispatcher
[14:20] <racarr> will fail to promote the focused window handle
[14:20] <alan_g> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/why-arent-user-defined-operators-more-common/
[14:20] <racarr> and clear its focus
[14:21] <racarr> I know :p this seems like a pretty clear overload though
[14:22] <alan_g> racarr: that enough help for now?
[14:22] <racarr> Yes thanks. :)
[14:49] <racarr> coffee shop be back for meeting!
[15:01] <kdub> hello again folks, status, working on a swapping algorithm switcher
[15:10] <racarr> status: Updating rebuild-input-targeting. Then going to work on some lttng tracing for inpu
[15:10] <racarr> t
[15:15] <alan_g> racarr: you've a couple of other MPs in need of attention
[15:17] <racarr> alan_g: I will reject disable-sequences until later
[15:17] <racarr> alan_g: I can update depthify-stack but there is no point to land it without rebuild-input-targeting as input wont work in stacked scenarios
[15:18] <racarr> so have been waiting
[15:29] <alan_g> racarr: ok
[15:32] <racarr> oh wow...
[15:33] <racarr> alan_g: In that whole discusion before...I was wondering, how does msh::Surface then go on and pass itself to the InputTargeter from take_input_focus
[15:33] <racarr> now looking at the code...it needs to pass ms::Surface and it's all very obvious :p
[15:33] <racarr> I think I got crosswired because I am used to thinking that InputTarget=shell::Surface
[15:34] <alan_g> racarr: how very confusing
[15:35] <racarr> the msh::Surface/mf::Surface<->ms::Surface is so frustrating
[15:35] <racarr> maybe I will try and find a "once and for all" solution this week...I think its worth some thought
[15:38] <alan_g> racarr: good luck! (I keep being distracted by more urgent work.)
[15:38] <racarr> :)
[15:39] <alf_> status: BufferSwapperSpin and client::RpcReport MPs, with the next step being an lttng RpcReport implementation (and perhaps related client side improvements)
[15:39] <racarr> How come bypass comp?
[15:40] <alan_g> racarr: it is a maze of twisty little objects - I know what I want to happen, but untangling the bits I want to change is frustratingly slow.
[15:40] <racarr> mm :)
[15:41] <kdub> alan_g, anything I could help with?
[15:42] <alan_g> kdub: not right now, but once I get this first spike running I'll be grabbing you. (Hopefully tomorrow)
[15:46] <racarr> alan_g: Pushed updates to rebuild-input-targeting
[15:46] <racarr> let me know if I can help fit things together on review, etc...feel bad about dumping such a large branch but couldn't find any sensible way to split it up
[15:47] <alan_g> racarr: ack
[15:47] <racarr> I Guess I will write some doxygen too
[16:01] <racarr> alf_: I am looking at adding LTTNG for some interesting input statistics (just a few to start, such as received event from kernel, dispatched event, etc...)
[16:01] <racarr> alf_: Just want to make sure I have the idea right...
[16:02] <racarr> make a new report interface. Then provide lttng/logger implementations?
[16:02] <racarr> or are there other ways to use it
[16:04] <alf_> racarr: that's the recommended way, look at message_processor_report* in server/lttng/ as a template of how to do it
[16:08] <alf_> racarr: let me know if you have any questions
[16:08] <racarr> alf_: I think it makes sense. Thanks :)
[16:08] <alf_> racarr: yw
[16:08] <racarr> what I am wrestling with in my head...is...I guess I want a less explicit interface but
[16:08] <racarr> it's probably wrong?
[16:09] <racarr> the thing is. the way I imagine wanting to use tracing (espescially in parts like input) is to have...lots of trace points!
[16:09] <racarr> But if they are done through a report rather than explicitly they have a real cost
[16:10] <racarr> both runtime, and interface bloat
[16:10] <alf_> racarr: runtime=cost when using a null report?
[16:10] <alan_g> racarr: you were at the London sprint. We discussed the difference between reporting and tracing there
[16:11] <racarr> what you get through the report, is explicitness, and a contract.
[16:12] <racarr> alan_g: Mm
[16:12] <racarr> alf_: Well, it's still a virtual method invocation right. It's a hugely low cost I guess.
[16:12] <alan_g> racarr: is this the same discussion revisited?
[16:13] <racarr> mostly about interface bloat.
[16:13] <racarr> alan_g: sort of..
[16:13] <alf_> alan_g: racarr: hangout?
[16:13] <racarr> It's just there are some type of events...like say
[16:13] <racarr> "Couldn't load input device configuration file so falling back to generic"
[16:13] <racarr> that I am not sure are ever interesting as part of a report
[16:13] <racarr> and are so large
[16:14] <racarr> err, the space of possible events
[16:14] <racarr> but you would love to see them in a trace
[16:14] <racarr> *shrug*
[16:14] <racarr> alf_: We can. I don't want to distract everyone too much though
[16:14] <racarr> because I haven't spent much time thinking about this yet
[16:14] <alf_> racarr: ok
[16:15] <racarr> I think maybe I am getting ahead of myself anyway
[16:15] <racarr> as my initial goal was just to add tracing for a few interesting
[16:15] <racarr> occurences
[16:15] <racarr> not everything XD
[16:16] <racarr> lol at comments in android input stack
[16:16] <racarr> We hold a wake lock at all times except during epoll_wait().  This works due to some                                                                                // subtle choreography
[16:17] <racarr> "Subtle choreography"
[16:23] <alan_g> racarr: alf_ - do we want to hangout now? Or after racarr has spent a day implementing something?
[16:25] <alf_> alan_g: racarr: let's leave it for after
[16:25] <racarr> I agree. I just got ahead of myself. The current interfaces are fine for all I want to do now.
[16:26] <racarr> in the past. I've found really detailed tracing as a more useful way to debug
[16:26] <racarr> multithreaded/multiprocess systems
[16:26] <racarr> and might want to enable that one day?
[16:26] <racarr> but. ONE STEP AT A TIME *hits self on head with one step at a time stick*
[16:27] <alf_> kdub: how about BufferSwapperSync, BufferSwapperAsync ?
[16:28] <alan_g> racarr: ok, but it is good to share ideas about the overall shape of things too. ;)
[16:28] <alf_> kdub: hmm, Async doesn't really tell the whole story
[16:28] <kdub> alf_, yeah, "synced to what?" was my first thought
[16:29] <racarr> alan_g: The one thing I do have open for this first step is
[16:29] <racarr> the existing "InputReport" stuff to redirect the android logging
[16:29] <racarr> is conflicting in name because I can't provide an LTTNG backing for that really
[16:31] <racarr> at least, the command line option is conflicting ;)
[16:31] <alan_g> racarr: you'd like to rename it "LegacyInputReport"? Fine by me - I just stopped it spewing over the console
[16:31] <racarr> Ok
[16:31] <racarr> yes. Much appreciated :)
[16:31] <alan_g> racarr: one day we can get rid of the legacy. ;)
[16:32] <kdub> alf_, maybe FrameDroppingSwapper and VsyncSwapper?
[16:33] <kdub> sort of tough to convey all the nuances of a buffer swapper in class name ;-)
[18:31] <racarr> so how do I use lttng -.-
[18:42] <racarr> hmm neither my new lttng or the old lttng following alfs instructions
[18:42] <racarr> works for me
[18:50] <racarr> Lunccccch!
[19:13] <greyback|away> racarr: small patch for lp:~robertcarr/platform-api/mir branch so it builds against latest mir: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5711198/
[19:14] <greyback|away> after merging trunk ofc
[19:24] <racarr> annd back
[19:25] <racarr> greyback|away: Ah! thanks will merge
[20:07] <kdub> swapperswappers are tricky
[20:17] <racarr> :(
[21:15] <thomi> morning folks
[21:24] <robert_ancell> thomi, hello
[21:24] <robert_ancell> thomi, hey, any update on autorebuilding lightdm against libmirserver?
[21:24] <thomi> robert_ancell: should be working now
[21:24] <robert_ancell> \o/
[21:24] <robert_ancell> thomi, also, we need to enable lightdm building on saucy
[21:25] <thomi> might be done already, let me check
[21:25] <robert_ancell> thomi, https://launchpad.net/~mir-team/+archive/staging/+packages shows lightdm being rebuilt 2 May - so it doesn't appear to be working?
[21:26] <thomi> robert_ancell: ok, saucy is already enabled. I have a call with francis in 4 minutes, so I'll ask him about it then
[21:26] <robert_ancell> ok, ta
[21:27] <thomi> robert_ancell: also, I have a 50 line c++ program that reliably hangs the mir server :(
[21:27] <thomi> about to file a bug...
[21:27] <robert_ancell> :(
[21:27] <thomi> I'm really glad we're doing these stress tests, we seem to be fixing a lot of problems
[21:27] <thomi> well, when I say "we"... I'm not fixing anything :P
[21:29] <kgunn> thomi: hey...somebody's gotta break it before you can fix it
[21:30] <thomi> I'm the annoying guy who comes along and pokes holes in your nice shiny new code :)
[21:31] <kgunn> i'm grateful...good stuff!
[21:43] <robotfuel> I get the following error message when trying to run mir_demo_server on the phone: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5711560/ has anyone else run across this?
[21:44] <greyback|away> robotfuel: I find a reboot can help that. I sometimes get it after a package update
[21:44] <greyback|away> robotfuel: oh actually, are you running on your desktop?
[21:45] <robotfuel> greyback|away: no the ubuntu-touch image on a galaxy nexus
[21:46] <thomi> robert_ancell: got a moment for a quick hangout with francis to discuss the lightdm issue?
[21:46] <greyback|away> robotfuel: ah, I see. You need to run it via "adb shell" - not as the root user
[21:46] <robert_ancell> thomi, sure
[21:46] <robotfuel> greyback|away: I am running it in the ubuntu_chroot
[21:46] <robotfuel> via adb shell
[21:46] <robert_ancell> thomi, what is the issue?
[21:47] <thomi> robert_ancell: just the lightdm being rebuilt after every mir
[21:47] <robert_ancell> ack
[21:47] <thomi> robert_ancell: actually, don't worry
[21:47] <robert_ancell> even better :)
[21:47] <thomi> I'll manage, and pull you in if needed
[21:47] <greyback|away> robotfuel: ok good. Did you stop surfaceflinger?
[21:48] <greyback|away> robotfuel: you can do this while not in the chroot, by running simply "stop"
[21:48] <robotfuel> greyback|away: yes I ran stop && ubuntu_chroot shell
[21:48] <greyback|away> robotfuel: in that case, I'm running low on ideas. What device have you?
[21:49] <greyback|away> oh oyu said, galaxy nexus
[21:49] <robotfuel> greyback|away: yes a gnex
[21:50] <thomi> robert_ancell: you want lp:~mir-team/lightdm/unity rebuilt, right? not lp:lightdm
[21:50] <robert_ancell> thomi, correct
[21:50] <greyback|away> robotfuel: give me a minute, I'll try it on mine
[21:50] <robotfuel> I have jenkins running a glmark job on the desktop, but it should be more interesting on a phone, because fps isn't tied to the refresh rate of the monitor
[21:51] <thomi> robert_ancell: ok, we had enabled the autorebuild for unity-system-compositor, but not for lightdm, that's being done now
[21:51] <kgunn> robotfuel: on a phone you're still going to be tied to vsync
[21:51] <kgunn> unless you do something to unhinge it
[21:52] <robert_ancell> thomi, so U-S-C shows it is 19 days old
[21:52] <robert_ancell> thomi, oh duh. I was getting mixed up. I think technically we don't need to rebuild lightdm on libmirserver changes, but it is a nice to have anyway
[21:53] <thomi> robert_ancell: ok, well.. that's going in now anyway :-/
[21:53] <robert_ancell> we do need lightdm on saucy though
[21:53] <thomi> everything should be being built on saucy already
[21:53] <robert_ancell> thomi, it might actually need to be rebuilt when u-s-c changes in the future, but I'll bug you then if it's a problem
[21:54]  * robert_ancell takes a week off and forgets everything
[21:54] <fginther> yo
[21:54] <thomi> robert_ancell: so after the rebuild the packages should be pushed to ppa:mir-team/staging, ight?
[21:54] <robert_ancell> thomi, yes
[21:55] <thomi> fginther: can we do that easily?
[21:55] <robert_ancell> thomi, how do you version them?
[21:55] <fginther> robert_ancell, we can do that..
[21:55] <robert_ancell> fginther, so it just overwrites the existing one?
[21:55] <fginther> the packages can be versioned with a monotonically increasing version number
[21:55] <fginther> yes, it will overwrite the last one
[21:56] <robert_ancell> fginther, will a user upgrade from version X to X (i.e. if the binary has changed)?
[21:56] <thomi> presumably the version number will be X -> X+1 or X.1
[21:56] <robert_ancell> I was hoping we could have 0.0.1brz25.3 for the third rebuild of bzr version 25
[21:57] <greyback> robotfuel: ok I got it working here. I made sure everything was up to date. Then reboot, adb root, adb shell, stop, ubuntu_chroot, mir_demo_server&, mir_demo_client_accelerated
[21:57] <fginther> robert_ancell, if the user does a dist-upgrade, they will get the lastest, but if a user does a install of just mir, it will not pull in the lightdm-mir
[21:57] <robotfuel> greyback: thanks, I didn't try the client part
[21:58] <greyback> robotfuel: if the server returns that error message you got, then the client will fail. Server needs to be running
[21:58] <greyback> before client can show anything
[21:58] <thomi> robert_ancell: latest mir bug I've found is posted at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1185183
[21:59] <kdub> i can try on my phone... see what happens
[21:59] <robotfuel> I am using image 132, maybe that image has an issue.
[22:00] <greyback> robotfuel: perhaps, that I cannot say. apt-get dist-upgrade all up to date?
[22:00] <fginther> robert_ancell, it is very difficult to get the version numbers to 'reset', so what happens is, you'll see a version ending in '0' when the package is built due to a source change, othewise, the version will end in X, where X is always greater then the last X
[22:01] <robert_ancell> fginther, ok
[22:20] <robotfuel> greyback:  distupgrade fixed the issue, thanks!
[22:20] <racarr> earrrly in. early out!
[22:20] <greyback> robotfuel: glad to hear it.
[22:30] <kgunn> cya racarr
[22:50] <thomi> robert_ancell: got a second?
[22:50] <robert_ancell> thomi, sure
[22:51] <thomi> robert_ancell: so the bug I reported above is blocking the stress tests moving much further. I wonder who I should bug about this? Or should I just leave it with you and work on something else today?
[22:52] <robert_ancell> thomi, I'll have a look at it
[22:53] <thomi> robert_ancell: thanks
[22:58] <robert_ancell> thomi, always exactly after 500 times?
[22:58] <thomi> robert_ancell: 501 actually, yeah
[22:58] <robert_ancell> weird
[22:59] <thomi> yeah. I wondered if the sevrer was leaking 2 file handle per connection
[22:59] <thomi> just a guess
[22:59] <robert_ancell> thomi, why does it close the fd?
[22:59] <thomi> robert_ancell: otherwise the client leaks them. see mail to ML
[22:59] <robert_ancell> ok, that's just a workaround
[22:59] <thomi> RAOF was going to fix that in the client API
[22:59] <thomi> yeah


[00:43] <cjohnston> Salt, et al did yall see the update on the merge issue?
[00:44] <Salt> no, waddup?
[00:45] <cjohnston> there is a bug.. we have a fix... just gotta wait for it to be pushed
[00:45] <cjohnston> just can't do much with "it doesnt work"
[00:45] <cjohnston> :-(
[03:30] <valorie> cjohnston: \o/ on progress!


[10:18] <cenerentola> yeah... it's been the biggest mistake ever done...
[10:18] <cenerentola> and one of the most stupid questions ever made..
[10:18] <aardvark> KeyserSoze: u having problems ?
[10:18] <cenerentola> now is burning ...
[10:18] <Tzalidar> and yes, i have restarted my x session since setting the environment vars
[10:18] <calc> cenerentola: ok
[10:18] <crimsun> argh.
[10:18] <eruditus> aardvark- well, I managed to change the pipeline, but haven't managed to change the driver...
[10:18] <calc> someone ban KeyserSoze already
[10:18] <cenerentola> calc: the led on the burner is blinkin...
[10:19] <iz> kill -9 KeyserSoze
[10:19] <cenerentola> i dont know if its normale
[10:19] <LinuxJones> omg someone ban Keyser please
[10:19] <eruditus> iz - hehehe
[10:19] <aardvark> eruditus: which soundcard u using ? driver ?
[10:19] <calc> cenerentola: ok
[10:19] <eruditus> aardvark- ac97 - but I just remember that there are 2 drivers for it, and I need the "other" one...
[10:19] <LinuxJones> eruditus, you use the snd-ac97-codec ?
[10:19] <eruditus> wait - lemme see....
[10:20] <cenerentola> calc: if there were problems it would have said it no?
[10:20] <aardvark> eruditus: is it installed
[10:20] <calc> cenerentola: i think so
[10:20] <cenerentola> thx
[10:21] <eruditus> VT82C686 AC97 Audio Controller - that's the device name...
[10:21] <Skif> Okay, I think I've figured out how to support keyspan drivers with an otherwise unmodified ubuntu kernel-- is this something that should go on the wiki, given that it involves patching the kernel (minimally, but even so...) and non-free firmware?
[10:21] <eruditus> Where the **** do I find the driver name?!
[10:22] <aardvark> eruditus:  is it a onboard sound controller
[10:22] <eruditus> aardvark- yes it is.
[10:22] <aardvark> eruditus: what make of MB ?
[10:22] <aardvark> eruditus: chipset ?
[10:22] <plovs> Skif: write a KeyspanDriverHowto
[10:23] <Skif> plovs: 'k, will do
[10:23] <eruditus> aardvark- stated above --- VT82C686...
[10:24] <Tzalidar> gah, why can't i launch eclipse from gnome
[10:25] <eruditus> brb
[10:25] <aardvark> eruditus: uhhhh looks like you need to load the via82cxxx_audio kernel module
[10:26] <eruditus> aardvark- ok - how do I do that?
[10:27] <aardvark> eruditus: first check lsmod to verify which drivers loaded
[10:27] <eruditus> aardvark- ok - don't worry about it - found the wiki :)
[10:27] <eruditus> thanks a lot tho :)
[10:27] <aardvark> eruditus: cool
[10:27] <aardvark> eruditus: what link u got there for it ?
[10:27] <eruditus> aardvark- thank you very much for all your help.
[10:27] <skar> hi, anybody know of any planner/calendar app, which can list percent of tasks completed, time spent on each task on a specific day and also the tasks performed on a specific day, like gnotime(ofcourse other than gnotime, which seems to be broken currently)?
[10:27] <meff> Kamion: is there/or are there any plans to make a menu generated by packages installed like debian does? so we don't have to add the apps to gnome manually..
[10:28] <aardvark> eruditus: no problem
[10:31] <michel_v> flash\\off: non credo che questo channel sia tanto bene per questo :P
[10:31] <imnes> Does ubuntu support software raid, and does it allow you to create a raid array from the installer and install to it directly?
[10:31] <bestadvocate> skar: did you try opengroupware.org?
[10:31] <flash\\off> michel_v, lol sei italiano?
[10:31] <michel_v> (just for the record, the guy's asking for 81+ years old virgin guys for BDSM games, if anyone's interested)
[10:31] <aardvark> imnes: do a man md
[10:32] <michel_v> flash\\off: sono Corso, posso parlare un poco l'italiano
[10:32] <skar> bestadvocate: i'd rather prefer desktop apps, as they're fast and intuitive
[10:32] <twitchgame> evo doesn't do that sort of thing?
[10:32] <punkass> what is a good vnc client for ubuntu?
[10:32] <imnes> aardvark:  Do you know if the ubuntu installer will allow you to create and install to a raid array?
[10:33] <burner> punkass: tsclient
[10:33] <aardvark> imnes: software or hardware ?
[10:33] <punkass> just something to view a windows vncserver form ubuntu
[10:33] <skar> twitchgame: if it does, then i'll be over the moon
[10:34] <burner> hardware vnc?  is there such a thing?
[10:34] <imnes> punkass: xvncviewer comes installed I think
[10:34] <skar> twitchgame: i've been using gnotime and it was great, just fast and simple to use, a few clicks for every 2-3 hours or so :)
[10:34] <imnes> or even just vncviewer
[10:35] <imnes> aardvark: software
[10:35] <aardvark> imnes: u wanna configure it as part of install process ?
[10:35] <burner> vncviewer is so non-ubuntu though
[10:35] <burner> er... non-gnome even
[10:35] <punkass> imnes: ah thanks :)
[10:35] <burner> tsclient is all pretty and stuff
[10:35] <imnes> aardvark: I have a pair of 80gb drives and I want to make a striped raid array and install ubntu to it.
[10:36] <aardvark> tsclient is terminal server / windows based
[10:36] <punkass> imnes: is it in the menus?
[10:36] <punkass> not sitting in front of a ubuntu box at the moment
[10:36] <imnes> punkass: no you can do Appolications -> Run and just type in xvncviewer
[10:36] <punkass> ok
[10:36] <skar> how do i integrate planner with evolution calendar?
[10:36] <inklingx> tsclient is gnome and can connect to vnc servers -> Applications -> Internet -> Terminal Server Client
[10:36] <punkass> imnes:k thanks
[10:36] <aardvark> punkass: sudo apt-get install tsclient
[10:37] <skar> twitchgame: i guess thats what you meant, right?
[10:38] <imnes> aardvark: I've done raid arrays through the installers for redhat and mandrake before, was hoping ubuntu has something similar.
[10:38] <twitchgame> skar: i don't actually know what evo can or can't do but i would have thought it would have some sort of task functionality in it
[10:38] <aardvark> imnes: follow this http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Software-RAID-HOWTO-5.html
[10:38] <imnes> ok
[10:38] <aardvark> imnes: I dont think so at this point
[10:38] <aardvark> I speak under correction though
[10:39] <punkass> why is tsclient better?
[10:39] <burner> it's gnomeified
[10:39] <burner> that's all
[10:39] <clee> heh.
[10:39] <punkass> so it just looks nicer?
[10:40] <burner> punkass: http://gnomepro.com/tsclient/screenshots.phtml
[10:40] <burner> yes :)
[10:41] <punkass> ah yes it does look nice
[10:42] <bur[n] er> exit
[10:44] <CoryK> Getting acquainted with the basics
[10:44] <CoryK>     * The Seeing Is Believing Lesson  Setup, scaffolding show-off, hello world!
[10:44] <CoryK>     * Rails for windows  Simple setup under win32
[10:44] <CoryK>     * Rails for windows part2  XAMPP install, db usage
[10:44] <CoryK> shouldn't that first one actually follow the other 2...
[10:45] <CoryK> don't you need rails setup in order to actually follow the video...
[10:47] <CoryK> what is that square icon that keeps flashing?
[10:47] <CoryK> damn
[10:47] <CoryK> i just realized that i'm not even on the right channel
[10:47] <L|nu}{> lol
[10:48] <inklingx> and not even on the right planet i guess ;)
[10:48] <CoryK> :P
[10:48] <WW> join swingingsingles
[10:48] <WW> Hey babes!
[10:48] <WW> oh shit
[10:48] <WW> nm
[10:49] <burner> lol
[10:51] <cprov> Hi guys, I'm unable to boot Ubuntu (sounder9) in a PIII-Coopermine machine with 512Mb SDRAM , it returns a kernel panic with trace starting with "acpi_ut_acquire_from_cache", I'd already tried "pci=noacpi acpi=off" and the got the same result
[10:52] <aardvark> WW: hahaha :D
[10:53] <bern`> hello everyone
[10:53] <aardvark> bern`: *nod
[10:56] <burner> will someone accept a dcc send of mine for testing?
[10:56] <MarcN> fyi: ubuntu 1.0 install report http://nozell.com/blog/archives/2004/10/22/installing-ubuntu-10-on-an-hpcompaq-nc6000-laptop/
[10:56] <punkass> cprov: the only other one i know is:  nolapic
[10:57] <punkass> i had to use that one on a dell D600
[10:58] <cprov> punkass: I'll try, just a minute
[11:02] <aardvark> MarcN: I read "funny NSFW story".....hehehehe
[11:02] <ondrej> g'evening everybody
[11:03] <MarcN> aardvark, true too.
[11:03] <MarcN> aardvark, isn't gettyimages a microsoft stronghold?
[11:03] <aardvark> MarcN: kinda...but the penguin is rolling into town
[11:04] <aardvark> MarcN: we got Sun too
[11:04] <MarcN> aardvark, we have something like 300+ linux boxes in production at work.
[11:05] <aardvark> MarcN: at ?
[11:05] <inklingx> MarcN: it is not ubuntu 1.0, but 4.10 ;)
[11:05] <MarcN> inklingx, noted.  I'll fix soon.
[11:05] <MarcN> aardvark, a large hardware vendor.  you can figure it out from my blog
[11:06] <aardvark> MarcN: can u say OpenView
[11:06] <MarcN> aardvark, I can, but prefer to say ProLiant.
[11:06] <aardvark> MarcN: hahaha sure.....
[11:06] <aardvark> MarcN: I am a client then
[11:07] <MarcN> inklingx, fixed ubuntu 4.10
[11:08] <aardvark> MarcN: 300 linux boxen running which linux distro ?
[11:08] <aardvark> OOps he left
[11:08] <bern`> anyone know howcome ethereal isn't in the ubuntu repository?
[11:08] <bern`> and does anoyone know of any good ubuntu repositories
[11:09] <LinuxJones> bern`, ethereal si in universe
[11:10] <bern`> LinuxJones, i'm not to sure what that means?
[11:11] <bern`> LinuxJones, I'm quite new to linux itself but i tihnk i'm getting the hang of it
[11:11] <cardador> bern`: open synaptic,  settings, repositories, tick the 4th line and untick the 2nd
[11:12] <WW> bern`: For some background, read this: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/components/document_view
[11:12] <aardvark> bern`: did u uncomment the apt conf file settings for universe ?
[11:12] <bern`> cardador, thanks i'll do that now
[11:12] <bern`> WW, thanks as well
[11:12] <cardador> bern`: then, click reload and search for ethereal
[11:13] <cardador> aardvark: if a graphical solution is available, i think its better over comand line solution
[11:14] <aardvark> cardador: the joys of Nix.....gui and commandline
[11:14] <bern`> thanks guys that worked
[11:14] <LinuxJones> bern`, sorry I went afk
[11:14] <cardador> aardvark: i tend to prefer gui but command line is faster :)
[11:14] <bern`> didn't know of that
[11:14] <Poyayan> ok just installed it
[11:14] <Poyayan> pretty good so far
[11:15] <aardvark> cardador: choice is great thing !
[11:15] <alani> can anyone explain me please the diff between normal boot and rescue ? does ubuntu use the same kernel ?
[11:15] <aardvark> rescue is when regular fails, allowing you to specify boot parameters ?
[11:15] <xskoulax-> afternoon, morning, evening whatever the case maybe where you're at. I'm wondering where to pass the option to tell ubuntu to ignore my laptops plug and play bios, PnP is disabled at the bios level already, but Ubuntu still warns about stability issues and suggests passing the "nopnpbios" option
[11:16] <alani> I keep on getting kernel panics when booting with normal mode
[11:16] <alani> with rescue I just suceeded the first time
[11:16] <aardvark> alani: hmmm, what does dmesg say ?
[11:16] <LinuxJones> xskoulax, I jsut disable it in system bios
[11:16] <alani> aardvark, wait a sec, I will just reboot
[11:16] <aardvark> alani: u need to troubleshoot !
[11:17] <xskoulax-> LinuxJones: its disabled there but ubuntu still warns about it for some reason
[11:17] <LinuxJones> xskoulax, that' odd
[11:17] <Poyayan> just a question are the Ubuntu packages i486 or i386?  the cd has them all as i386 but the website says it's compiled using the i486 instruction set
[11:18] <alani> aardvark: now this is interesting it just worked for the first time booting with the normal mode
[11:18] <alani> I guess it could be memory problems
[11:19] <MarcN> nice, my intel w2100 wireless works out of the box
[11:19] <aardvark> alani: just check dmesg
[11:20] <alani> aardvark: have you ever tried the memory test entry in grub ??
[11:20] <alani> I just got an unexpected interrupt
[11:20] <aardvark> alani: oops, thats not good
[11:21] <alani> aardvark: yep, and it actually is a new system, so certainly not ubuntus fault ;-)
[11:21] <cprov> punkass: with "lapic" it just crash earlier ... strange behavior.
[11:22] <punkass> did u try nolapic?
[11:22] <Poyayan> I know out of the box you can't play mp3's but is there a plugin for rythmbox to allow mp3 playing?
[11:25] <WW> Poyayan: Hmmm... no answer to your question.  I think the answer is yes, but I don't know what or where the package is,
[11:26] <ribo> so just tried ubuntu for the first time. i have to say it's the most polished desktop distro i've seen
[11:26] <GotD0t-out> why don't you just use xmms
[11:27] <burner> beep-media-player is cooler
[11:27] <cardador> Poyayan: go to ubuntu web page, i guess that question is answered in the FAQ
[11:28] <ribo> i'm sorta missing galeon though :| and it's not in universe
[11:28] <WW> Isn't there some sort of mp3 support available in universe?
[11:28] <aardvark> burner: beep-media-player ?
[11:30] <Poyayan> well the faq just says that they are looking into the nature of divx, dvd, mp3, etc usage restrictions
[11:30] <Poyayan> they say to install mplayer and use totem-xine but nothing about getting rythmbox to work with mp3's
[11:30] <dommi> ubuntu is going to stop offering mp3 playback?
[11:30] <Poyayan> at least nothing I've been able to fine
[11:31] <cardador> Poyayan: i am listening to mp3s with rythmbox
[11:31] <dommi> rhythmbox works for me
[11:31] <WW> What packages use the library gstreamer0.8-mad?
[11:31] <Poyayan> really? what packages with rythmbox do you have cardador and dommi?
[11:31] <WW> s/library/plugin/
[11:31] <cardador> Poyayan: dont remember wich one
[11:31] <WW> Wait, I guess that would be totem-gstreamer?
[11:32] <dommi> Poyayan, dunno, it just works
[11:32] <inklingx> gstreamer0.8-mad is the one for enabling mp3 playback in rhythmbox
[11:32] <WW> Poyayan: gstreamer0.8-mad is an mp3 plugin.
[11:32] <Poyayan> oh
[11:33] <Poyayan> ok is there one for ffmpeg (aka divx playback)?
[11:34] <cardador> Poyayan: totem plays divx
[11:34] <Poyayan> again not by default though
[11:34] <cardador> Poyayan: youll need to add marillat repositories
[11:34] <Poyayan> ... yay
[11:34] <cardador> Poyayan: again, search the FAQ or wiki
[11:35] <Poyayan> merci
[11:35] <aardvark> Poyayan: try VLC
[11:35] <bern`> when i'm adding a new repository should i put multiverse as the section?
[11:36] <cardador> bern`: that depends on the repository
[11:36] <cardador> bern`: normally its "main"
[11:36] <cardador> never heard of multiverse
[11:37] <WW> bern`: What repository are you adding?  multiverse is an ubuntu component.
[11:37] <WW> bern`: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/helpcenterhowto.2004-10-20.3414506543
[11:37] <bern`> WW,  ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat
[11:37] <WW> bern`: Ah, then don't use multiverse.
[11:37] <tvon> official ubuntu has main, restricted universe and multiverse at leaset
[11:37] <tvon> least
[11:38] <bern`> just use main?
[11:38] <tvon> I don't know what multiverse is about though
[11:38] <bern`> WW,  just add it to main?
[11:38] <cardador> tvon: maybe WW can explain :)
[11:38] <WW> bern`: Scroll to the bottom: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[11:39] <bern`> WW,  okie doke i'll look at it now
[11:39] <WW> Regarding multiverse: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-10-20.1228090247
[11:41] <bern`> WW, thanks alot WW that was just what i was looking for but couldn't find it
[11:44] <letheus> What is the best e-mail program for linux, in your opinion?
[11:44] <cardador> letheus: evolution
[11:45] <WW> letheus: Best? Who knows?  I use evolution (but sometimes I pine for pine).
[11:45] <mikedo> hey does anyone know how to get my ISA Soundblaster 16 to work? I tried to modify /etc/modules.conf but after upgrading system I again don't have sound?
[11:47] <stvn> mikedo: you need to add some configuration options to the module IIRC
[11:47] <letheus> Ok :)
[11:47] <stvn> mikedo: like IRQ etc
[11:47] <bern`> well darn
[11:48] <bern`> ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat only has packages for i386
[11:49] <bern`> anyone known retricted format repositories for a64?
[11:49] <mikedo> what configuration options?
[11:50] <stvn> mikedo: I used to have a soundblaster ISA card, and had the proper values for my setup memorized, but they differ per system
[11:51] <stvn> mikedo: the IRQ and something else, you've to discover them somehow, I used win98 for that
[11:51] <mikedo> stvn: what did you have
[11:51] <stvn> mikedo: but I swapped it for a PCI card the first change I had, but if you google for ISA and soundblaster, you might get the answer
[11:52] <plovs> hornbeck: hi!
[11:52] <e> has anyone gotten kde 3.3 to work on their ubuntu yet?
[11:52] <mikedo> I'll try to google
[11:53] <mikedo> hey sasha privet!
[11:53] <trev0r> How long do you think it will take for a cd to arrive once I order it?
[11:53] <mikedo> kak dela v komnate 58
[11:53] <hornbeck> plovs: go to devel
[11:54] <mikedo> plovs: privet sasha!
[11:54] <Blues-Man> hi to all
[11:54] <hornbeck> hello
[11:55] <SporcusPorcus> my unbutu brings all the boys to the floor damn right its crappy as yours it can break you and make you bored
[11:55] <skar> how do i view lines containing my nick alone in irc chats under gaim?
[11:55] <Blues-Man> can i upgrade ubuntu to sid or only ubuntu upgrades every 6 month?
[11:55] <ribo> is there an apt source for galeon :|
[11:55] <SporcusPorcus> skar: rt gaim manual
[11:57] <lrn> how can i check if i got the latest ubuntu release
[11:57] <lrn> the final i mean
[11:57] <StarScream> is this the channel for unbuntu ppc as well or is there another on??
[11:57] <StarScream> +e
[11:58] <SporcusPorcus> well open up your browser and check if you picked teh correct iso imagine lrn
[11:58] <lrn> SporcusPorcus i had all the time the preview version and i did apt-get update and apt-get upgrade
[11:58] <xskoulax> StarScream: iirc there are a few people here running ppc boxes
[11:58] <lrn> how can i know if now i have the final release
[11:58] <stvn> lrn: do an update today, if nothing changes, you got it
[11:59] <SporcusPorcus> use the force
[11:59] <Blues-Man> excuse me , what's the default x font for gnome 2.8 on ubuntu?
[11:59] <lrn> well the logon screen and the splash screen changed,thank god they removed this pepole from there :P
[11:59] <lrn> i liked the chiks
[11:59] <lrn> but what the hell is this gay in the middle
[11:59] <plovs> mikedo: privet!


[01:36] <tumbleweed> superfly: pong
[05:52] <superfly> tumbleweed: no worries, I got it sorted... grub problems
[07:40] <Kilos> morning superfly  and others
[07:40] <superfly> hiya Kilos
[08:58] <inetpro> good morning Kilos, superfly, ++
[08:58] <Kilos> lo inetpro
[08:59] <superfly> hiya inetpro
[09:24] <Kilos> lo |3o|3
[09:24] <|3o|3> hey Kilos
[09:49] <queery> maaz, announce Western Cape Ubuntu Hour this Sunday at The Rock Room in Stellenbosch, RSVP and details at: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/1018/detail/
[09:49] <Maaz> Announcement from queery! Western Cape Ubuntu Hour this Sunday at The Rock Room in Stellenbosch, RSVP and details at: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/1018/detail/
[09:52] <queery> Maaz, set the topic: IRC meeting 20 June 19:30: http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/team/91/detail/ || Ubuntu South Africa LoCoTeam || Website: http://ubuntu-za.org/ || Forum: http://za.ubuntuforums.org/ || Join: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-za || Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-za ||Events: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-za/events || Pastebin: paste.ubuntu.com or codepad.org || Next Ubuntu Hour 12 June: http://loco.ubuntu
[09:52] <queery> .com/events/team/1018/detail/
[09:52] <Maaz> queery: Excuse me?
[09:53] <queery> maaz change channel topic to: IRC meeting 20 June 19:30: http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/team/91/detail/ || Ubuntu South Africa LoCoTeam || Website: http://ubuntu-za.org/ || Forum: http://za.ubuntuforums.org/ || Join: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-za || Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-za ||Events: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-za/events || Pastebin: paste.ubuntu.com or codepad.org || Next Ubuntu Hour 12 June: http://lo
[09:53] <Maaz> hoe lyk it
[09:53] <queery> co.ubuntu.com/events/team/1018/detail/
[09:55] <queery> dink nie dit het gewerk nie
[09:55] <Kilos> lol
[09:55] <Kilos> lo queery
[09:56] <queery> hi kilos
[16:52] <getack> quiet
[16:52] <Kilos> hi getack
[16:52] <Kilos> never seen you here before\
[16:53] <Kilos> or new nick
[16:53] <getack> hello kilos. first time here. :-/
[16:53] <getack> Im kinda active on the mailing lists usually
[16:53] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[16:53] <getack> thanks :-)
[16:53] <Kilos> been very quiet here the last while but we do have good days
[16:54] <getack> if it's quiet here it probably means nobody is having problems lol
[16:54] <Kilos> yeah
[16:55] <Kilos> thats good though
[16:55] <Kilos> just kinda lonely with only the coffee bot
[16:55] <kbmonkey> hi getack and Kilos :)
[16:55] <Kilos> hiya kb
[16:55] <Kilos> grrr
[16:55] <Kilos> kbmonkey,
[16:55] <getack> hello kbmonkey
[16:55] <Kilos> lo bmg505
[16:56] <getack> any folks from pta in here?
[16:56] <Kilos> normally yes
[16:57] <Kilos> they most likely lurking
[16:57] <getack> Yeah, like I usually do when I'm online. not that there's anything wrong with lurking?
[16:57] <Kilos> hehe
[16:58] <kbmonkey> :D
[16:59] <Kilos> lol
[16:59] <Kilos> Maaz, lurkers
[16:59] <Maaz> Lurkers are shirkers
[17:01] <Kilos> naughty maaz
[17:01] <getack> Anyway, since this is the support channel, I'ma gonna ask a support question.
[17:02] <getack> It's regarding empathy. How do I make it play it's little new message chime, when I have focus on the chat window? Right now it's only notifying me if another window has focus, which is nice, but I do not stare constantly at my screen, so I might miss something when I'm not looking at the screen
[17:02] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[17:02]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[17:02] <getack> is maaz real, or a machine? coz he replies really fast.
[17:02] <Kilos> dunno bout empathy i use pidgin
[17:02] <Kilos> bot
[17:03] <kbmonkey> Maaz, coffee please
[17:03] <Maaz> kbmonkey: Done
[17:03] <Kilos> superbot
[17:03] <Squirm2> http://www.bitterwallet.com/what-does-the-ip-in-ip-address-stand-for-ask-stephen-timms/27968
[17:03] <kbmonkey> caffeinebot :D he won't serve tea
[17:03] <Kilos> getack, must be in settings or tools then preferences
[17:03] <Kilos> lo Squirm
[17:04] <Squirm2> evening
[17:04] <Kilos> lol
[17:04] <kbmonkey> check the Empathy preferences getack?
[17:04] <getack> hmm I might just move over to pidgin. My natty is still quite new, just getting to know her  :-)
[17:04] <getack> No tea?
[17:04] <getack> maaz, tea please?
[17:04] <Maaz> Everybody here drinks coffee or goes thirsty
[17:04] <getack> ah. very well.
[17:04] <Kilos> hehe
[17:04] <Squirm2> lol
[17:04] <kbmonkey> ha ha!
[17:04] <Squirm2> ...denied
[17:04] <kbmonkey> I prefer Pidgin myself
[17:04] <Squirm2> same
[17:04] <Kilos> pidgin rocks
[17:05] <getack> Anyway, since I'm new here, Ill introduce myself!
[17:05] <Kilos> go on we listening
[17:06] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos and kbmonkey!
[17:06] <Kilos> Maaz, dankie man
[17:06] <Maaz> Groot plesier my vriend
[17:07] <Kilos> is the whoile internet sick the last week or two or is it just vodacom
[17:07] <kbmonkey> Maaz, thanks!
[17:07] <Maaz> kbmonkey: Okay :-)
[17:07] <Kilos> getack, fill us in on what you do and where
[17:08] <Kilos> we have some clever peeps in pta
[17:08] <kbmonkey> where are you from getack ?
[17:08] <getack> Hello all, my name is Getack. This is my de-facto internet handle, so If you see 'getack' anywhere else, it might be me.
[17:08] <Kilos> just kinda inactive lately
[17:08] <getack> Im 21, male, and a student to the University of Pretoria. I'm currently reading towards a degree in Information Science, specializing in multi-media. The second half of my second year is almost finished now.
[17:08] <getack> I have been a full-time 'buntu user for maybe two years now, and loving it!
[17:08] <Kilos> great nice to hear that
[17:09] <getack> thanks :-)
[17:09] <Kilos> hope you visit us regularly
[17:10] <Kilos> or even become a permanent fixture here
[17:10] <getack> I will definitely.
[17:10] <kbmonkey> yes irc is fun!
[17:10] <Kilos> have you tried pidgin
[17:10] <getack> I am behind my pc most of the day, so Ill possibly be online always.
[17:10] <Kilos> has everything and otr that the others dont have
[17:11] <Kilos> that good news
[17:11] <getack> Im gonna download pidgin now. Tried it before, never really used it much.
[17:11] <kbmonkey> I am a keyboard monkey, I like keyboard shortcuts. I stay in Durban and love the smell of ground coffee!
[17:11] <Kilos> lol
[17:11] <kbmonkey> anyone can recommend a mod/s3m player?
[17:12] <getack> hello kb. ground coffee is nice. Just had myself a huge mug of freshly ground Abyssinian!
[17:13] <kbmonkey> Wow get! That's nice :) The nicest coffee I had was from Rome, I drank it for a whole month :)
[17:13] <Kilos> I am the non pc pro on the channel
[17:13] <getack> nice!
[17:13] <getack> kilos: what pro are you then? ;-)
[17:14] <Kilos> um
[17:14] <Kilos> er
[17:14] <Kilos> whew
[17:14] <Kilos> dunno how to explain it
[17:14] <getack> It's okay, this place is anonymous ;-)
[17:14] <Kilos> was an electronic tech in the post office
[17:15] <Kilos> maybe 40 years ago
[17:15] <Kilos> then a diesel mechanic
[17:15] <Kilos> then a farmer
[17:15] <Kilos> then a corpse
[17:15] <Kilos> now i just me
[17:15] <Kilos> hehe
[17:16] <kbmonkey> extensive repetoire!
[17:16] <Kilos> lol
[17:16] <getack> ah I see... Well I'm still a student, so technically I'm not a pro at anything yet.
[17:16] <Kilos> im the one that needs the most help here and makes the most mistakes
[17:16] <kbmonkey> that's longer than I have lived!
[17:16] <Kilos> lol
[17:17] <kbmonkey> turning 30 this year :)
[17:17] <Kilos> but this is my home since starting to play with pc's
[17:17] <Kilos> my son is 35 and daughter 24
[17:18] <Kilos> you will see wolfeyes here whenever he gets stuck
[17:18] <Kilos> just gone to kubuntu natty
[17:18] <Kilos> i be the grandpa here i think
[17:19] <Kilos> and i love cyber coffee
[17:19] <getack> nothing wrong with being the grandpa :-)
[17:19] <getack> At least ask if you get stuck! On IRC nogal!
[17:19] <Kilos> and ubuntu of course
[17:20] <Kilos> lol
[17:21] <Kilos> i was driven here by a hatred of winsucks and all the hassles and no online help ever without first paying $49
[17:23] <getack> Ah I see. Anyway, Im going to of off now, quickly gonna setup pidgin and remove empathy and so on brb!
[17:25] <kbmonkey> same here Kilos, same here!
[17:25] <Kilos> hehe
[17:26] <kbmonkey> well let me get cracking. I added unstable repos to install nvidia drivers which broke some packages, need to fix that
[17:26] <Kilos> eish
[17:34] <getack> back :-)
[17:34] <Kilos> getack, wb
[17:35] <getack> thanks :-)
[17:35] <Kilos> i dunno about natty but in synaptic there is lots you can add to pidgin like blinklight etc
[17:36] <Kilos> on maverick and earlier i had to make it use alsa sound as well
[17:37] <getack> One day Ill explore it in depth. It looks like it works now.
[17:40] <getack> Maaz, my coffee is finished...
[17:40] <Maaz> getack: Got it
[17:40] <Kilos> lol
[17:40] <Kilos> he uses coffee on
[17:41] <getack> hmm. I love talking to bots. Especially when I make them fail the Turing test!
[17:41] <Kilos> lol
[17:41] <getack> Anyway, Im going into lurk mode now, I've got exam tomorrow...
[17:42] <Kilos> study well
[17:42] <Kilos> and good luck for the exam
[17:45] <getack> thanks!
[18:08] <kbmonkey> time to eat some soup :]
[18:32] <Kilos> yip. best food for this weather
[18:32] <Kilos> with lotsa chilli in
[20:14] <queery> maaz google lee evans
[20:14] <Maaz> queery: "Lee Evans (comedian) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Evans_(comedian) :: "Lee Evans - IMDb" http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0262968/ :: "Lee Evans, WR for the Buffalo Bills at NFL.com" http://www.nfl.com/players/leeevans/profile?id=EVA454901 :: "Lee Evans - Buffalo Bills - NFL - Yahoo! Sports" http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6772 :: "Lee Evans Profile - Buffalo Bills - ESPN" http://sports.espn.go
[20:31] <queery> maaz ty
[20:31] <Maaz> Enjoy queery


[08:08] <TehTux> hi, anyone alive here?
[08:08] <TehTux> I've got some additions to the Ubuntu Weekly newsletter
[08:09] <TehTux> for the "In The Blogosphere" section
[08:09] <TehTux> ...
[08:09] <TehTux> anyone? Is this the right place?
[08:09]  * TehTux wonders if he should start dinging ppl at random
[08:10] <TehTux> Ok, anyway - if it IS the right place, a review of Ubuntu 8.10 Alpha 2 is located here:
[08:10] <TehTux> http://www.headshotgamer.com/review.aspx?id=62
[08:11] <TehTux> If it's ok, I'd love to have it included in the blogosphere section.
[22:25] <cody-somerville> http://youtube.com/watch?v=PLHjT5-XM9o
[23:12] <johnc4510-laptop> nice
[23:13] <johnc4510-laptop> great scenes, and i love it when they fly