[22:23] <mjphilli_> ATI has the white screen of death and is a bitch to get compiz working with it
[22:23] <RAOF> Amaranth: The first part of the nouveau update?
[22:23] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: Would you like me to go through the list of problems that make me want to throw my nvidia laptop out the window?
[22:23] <Amaranth> nvidia has a "white screen of death" too
[22:23] <Amaranth> try user switcher
[22:23] <mjphilli_> Amaranth what driver do you use?
[22:23] <mjphilli_> from the repo or the website?
[22:24] <Amaranth> repo
[22:24] <mjphilli_> ok
[22:24] <Amaranth> website is no different
[22:24] <mjphilli_> umm
[22:24] <mjphilli_> i disagree, do you want to try to fix your problem?
[22:24] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: You are talking to the wrong person
[22:24] <RAOF> HEh.
[22:24] <mjphilli_> I will walk to through what i feel a pretty fail safe way, its easy
[22:25] <Amaranth> I used to maintain a l-r-m package with up-to-date nvidia drivers when they first got texture_from_pixmap support.
[22:25] <Amaranth> And my hatred of nvidia comes almost entirely from crap I run into while working on compiz
[22:26] <RAOF> mjphilli_: Incidentally, the 'white screen of death' is user error + Xgl, generally.
[22:26] <mjphilli_> i remove the restricted driver manager, blacklist nv in the restricted modules and install using the driver from the website
[22:26] <mjphilli_> works 100% of the time.
[22:26] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: Magic fairy dust reinstalls will not fix my bugs
[22:26] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: Because my bugs are deadlocks in the DDX and broken features.
[22:26] <Amaranth> Oh, and some awesome ACPI corruption
[22:26] <Amaranth> Oh, and some fun blinking
[22:27] <mjphilli_> that sucks
[22:27] <h3sp4wn> Fast user switching works for me
[22:27] <RAOF> And some frikkin screen update freezes between blinks!
[22:27] <h3sp4wn> (or at least doesn't crash anything)
[22:27] <h3sp4wn> dunno exactly how its supposed to work though
[22:27] <h3sp4wn> (on nvidia)
[22:27] <Amaranth> h3sp4wn: If compiz is running you'll come back to a white screen.
[22:28] <h3sp4wn> Ah I don't bother with that
[22:28] <Amaranth> Because when the X server is not the active VT new textures don't get memory so they come up blank. Fullscreen gnome-screensaver == white screen
[22:28] <Amaranth> Type your password blindly and hope gnome-screensaver really is running
[22:28] <RAOF> h3sp4wn: Yeah.  If you don't use compiz, nvidia is much less annoying :P
[22:29] <Amaranth> Although many of these bugs can be triggered with games too
[22:29] <Amaranth> Just not as often and not as likely
[22:29] <mjphilli_> compiz gives me hard locks up from time to time so i just use composite in metacity
[22:29] <h3sp4wn> When compiz cooperates properly with cadence then maybe I will try it
[22:29] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: Yes, those are nvidia bugs.
[22:30] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: As a compiz dev you have no idea how frustrating that is
[22:30] <void^> nvidia drivers generally give me hardlocks every 2 to 4 days even when not using any 3d features
[22:30] <Amaranth> Even when compiz seems to be at fault (using 100% CPU and not updating the screen) if you pull up gdb to see what it is doing it always seems to be spinning somewhere inside libGL
[22:30] <Amaranth> So, again, nvidia
[22:30] <mjphilli_> Amaranth, so do you recommend ATI?
[22:31] <Amaranth> Maybe in a year
[22:31] <Amaranth> Then again in a year nouveau will probably be good to use
[22:31] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: http://gould.cx/ted/presentations/scale6x/slides/62_drivers.svg.png
[22:31] <h3sp4wn> I doubt nouveau will ever have the same performance
[22:32] <mjphilli_> unless nvidia provides documentation
[22:32] <h3sp4wn> (Unless somehow they get the specs)
[22:32] <Amaranth> h3sp4wn: ha
[22:32] <Amaranth> They can already do Xvideo as fast or faster than the blob
[22:32] <RAOF> They've managed better performance on 2d than the blob (but that's presumably much easier).
[22:32] <Amaranth> And better looking too
[22:32] <Amaranth> oh, and better 2d performance
[22:32] <Amaranth> and with gallium we have the most advanced shader compiler in existence
[22:33] <h3sp4wn> One more thing quadro == tested
[22:33] <h3sp4wn> they don't care about the others as far as I can tell
[22:33] <Amaranth> quadro == geforce card they didn't disable things on
[22:33] <h3sp4wn> But they test the driver on it prior to release
[22:33] <RAOF> Yeah.  Gallium would be a big advantage for nouveau.
[22:33] <cyphase> Where's this new screen configuration tool that's mentioned in the alpha6 release notes?
[22:34] <RAOF> cyphase: Sys->Prefs->Screen Resolution
[22:34] <gil> Hmm I've just removed Nv non-free drivers, and restarted X, and now I only have one resolution option in Preferences/Screen Resolution :-\    Still defaulting to 1600 x 1200 - I'm wondering if this is maybe related to the fact that my 8600GT has twin outputs, and maybe two screens are running here somehow?
[22:34] <RAOF> Same as the old one, but shinier.
[22:34] <cyphase> ooooooh
[22:34] <RAOF> And, of course, doesn't work on nvidia.  Because randr12 is for pansies.
[22:34] <cyphase> RAOF: i was looking for a new button
[22:35]  * cyphase has an nVidia card :(
[22:35] <RAOF> cyphase: Works with nouveau :)
[22:35] <RAOF> Or nv, if you've got a nv5x.
[22:35] <cyphase> so i won't be able to change my resolution if i have an nvidia card?
[22:36] <macogw> RAOF: does nouveau do 3D yet?
[22:36] <gil> ....and I'm not sure if this is a hardy thing, but administration/screns and graphics is coming up with every option blank, and crashing hard the moment you try to do anything with it :-\
[22:36] <h3sp4wn> RAOF: Can I set the default screen with randr 1.2 properly yet ?
[22:36] <macogw> gil: we all know
[22:36] <Amaranth> macogw: experimental gallium driver for NV4x
[22:36] <macogw> tilthats on all hardy
[22:36] <macogw> wrong one
[22:36] <macogw> gil: thats on all hardy
[22:36] <gil> macogw according to the status page, nouveau does not do 3D yet
[22:36] <gil> macogw thanks
[22:37] <RAOF> gil, macogw: The status page lies.  Nouveau does OpenArena on my lappy.
[22:37] <Amaranth> gil: That's just to scare off people who won't be useful for testing ;)
[22:37] <RAOF> Or did, until they broke it.
[22:37] <macogw> gil: thing is, the new screen resolution thing has a nicer interface for marking which screen is left and right and all that, so i wouldnt be surprised if it replaces screens & graphics
[22:37] <Amaranth> Screen Resolution says "Unknown" for me
[22:37] <Amaranth> thanks a lot nvidia
[22:37] <gil> macogw it looks great - I just can't get it to set anything for me :)
[22:37] <macogw> well ill stick with Intel until Nouveau's in good shape
[22:37] <cyphase> Screens and Graphics doesn't even do anything right now in hardy
[22:37] <s3phiroth> is wine broken on hardy ?
[22:37] <macogw> gil: oh well um thats a problem
[22:38] <Amaranth> i have two monitors setup, it just has one big Unknown sized 2592x900
[22:38] <gil> macogw also, rather worringly, it gives me the option to set my resolution to "off" - that can't be right? :p
[22:38] <cyphase> it doesn't even show that any screens exist
[22:38] <macogw> cyphase: i thought they just merged one that did stuff?
[22:38] <h3sp4wn> Can it just scale nicely (Like e17 does)
[22:38] <Amaranth> Screen Resolution is a randr12 frontend
[22:38] <RAOF> Amaranth: Yeah, me too.
[22:38] <Amaranth> nvidia _still_ does not do randr12
[22:38] <Amaranth> so you can't use it
[22:38] <macogw> gil: you can only do one screen at a time while configuring
[22:38] <s3phiroth> i'm getting a Segmentation Fault everytime i try to run wine. is this happening to everyone ?
[22:38] <cyphase> macogw: i don't know about that..
[22:38] <Amaranth> s3phiroth: 55?
[22:38] <gil> RAOF / Amaranth - is the 3D support for the 8x series or just the earlier models?
[22:38] <Amaranth> s3phiroth: you need 0.9.56
[22:38] <macogw> gil: so you turn off the left screen while setting the right's resolution, then turn on left's and right's off and set left's resolution, then turn them both on
[22:38] <h3sp4wn> Amaranth: Do you think it ever will ? (or at least until either RHEL or Sun wants it badly enough)
[22:38] <Amaranth> gil: they don't even have 2D acceleration on the NV5x
[22:39] <RAOF> gil: nouveau isn't really working on nv5x.
[22:39] <s3phiroth> Amaranth: yes, 55, hardy's latest
[22:39] <RAOF> s3phiroth: Update your apt lists; 56 has been out for at least a day :)
[22:39] <Amaranth> s3phiroth: 0.9.56 is either building right now or on hold until after the alpha 6 release
[22:39] <Amaranth> oh, is it out?
[22:39] <Amaranth> i have a custom build so mine is pinned
[22:39] <s3phiroth> RAOF: oh...
[22:39] <s3phiroth> let me check
[22:39]  * RAOF used aptitude forbid-version, so it automatically updated to the not-broken version.
[22:40] <s3phiroth> oh, yes it is. let me upgrade it then.
[22:40] <macogw> cyphase: i saw something about it on planet the other day...lemme look for it
[22:41] <Amaranth> h3sp4wn: nvidia will never do randr12, they refuse
[22:41] <Amaranth> h3sp4wn: supposedly they'd do randr13, whenever that gets done
[22:41] <gil> macogw - thing is, I'm only running one screen - I think something got confused somehow. I tried disabling twinview manually in the devices section of xorg.conf, but still no joy :-\
[22:41] <s3phiroth> by the way, is anyone around here using an ati mobility x2300 on hardy ?
[22:41] <macogw> cyphase: http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/display-config-1
[22:41] <cyphase> macogw: i think i saw that already..
[22:41] <gil> Amaranth / RAOF kk was just checking that part of the status was up to date, or set to scare people off also :)
[22:41] <macogw> gil: there's not supposed to be much of anything in xorg.conf in hardy
[22:41] <cyphase> yea, i did
[22:42] <RAOF> gil: You'd be wanting to disable "dynamic twinview", which will make nvidia report the actual refresh rate.
[22:42] <cyphase> macogw: that's the thing that replaces System -> Preferences -> Screen Resolution
[22:42] <macogw> cyphase: yeah
[22:42] <cyphase> macogw: not Screens and Graphics
[22:42] <RAOF> gil: I'd suggest checking out nvidia-xconfig --advanced-help.  I don't manually edit xorg.conf :)
[22:42] <s3phiroth> oh wow ! wine is running :)
[22:42] <macogw> cyphase: well that *is* the screen resolution thing...uh but what doesnt it do that screens & graphics does?  set the driver.  that's it.
[22:43] <cyphase> s3phiroth: you must be really drunk if your alcohol is running from you
[22:43] <gil> RAOF so you don't think "dynamictwinview" "false" is a good route to go?
[22:43] <s3phiroth> cyphase: hah !
[22:43] <s3phiroth> it...grew legs !
[22:44] <s3phiroth> the fonts are a bit weirdish but at least it's running
[22:44] <cyphase> anyone know when alpha6 is coming?
[22:44] <RAOF> gil: Oh, that's probably what nvidia-xconfig will stick in your xorg.conf.  I'm just not sure where it needs to be.
[22:44] <s3phiroth> and on my new laptop it's blazing fast
[22:44] <gil> RAOF I tried putting it under devices, but it seemed to ignore it - I'm going to vanish for 5 minutes and try and reinstall non-free and try adding it through nvidia-xconfig this time :)
[22:46] <macogw> OOo still isnt fixed
[22:46] <macogw> still cant install updates
[22:46] <macogw> grrr
[22:50] <Amaranth> macogw: I have no idea what you're talking about
[22:50] <Amaranth> I'm fulling up-to-date
[22:50] <Amaranth> err, fully
[22:51] <macogw> Amaranth: The following packages have unmet dependencies: openoffice.org: Depends: openoffice.org-writer2latex which is a virtual package.
[22:51] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[22:51] <Amaranth> you got issues
[22:52] <macogw> and it wants to remove openoffice.org, openclipart-openoffice.org, and leave openoffice.org-writer's dependence on openoffice.org-writer2latex unresolved
[22:52] <h3sp4wn> Thats a recommend
[22:52] <h3sp4wn> (I got that but aptitude did the sane thing)
[22:52] <macogw> that IS aptitude
[22:52] <macogw> it wants to remove openoffice.org though
[22:53] <macogw> which i guess might be a virtualpackage....
[22:53] <h3sp4wn> just do a safe-upgrade
[22:53] <h3sp4wn> or change aptitude to not treat recommends as dependencies
[22:53] <gil> RAOF Success :)  nvidia-xconfig --disable-dynamic-twinview worked like a charm
[22:53] <willis_> thats weird. I did a update & upgrade, then when i logged in, restricted-manager tool THEN decided to let me upgrade the nvidia drivers.
[22:53] <RAOF> gil: Woho!
[22:54] <willis_> I would of thought it would of auto-upgrade them.. since i was allready using them
[22:54] <willis_> using twinview here also. :)
[22:54] <willis_> what does dynamic do? never used that optiun
[22:54] <gil> RAOF so now, in Screen Resolution, it is able to detect all the refresh rates my monitor is capable of - it doesn't want to change resolution though, but at least I solved half of my problem :)
[22:54] <h3sp4wn> willis_: same sort of thing xrandr 1.2 does
[22:55] <willis_> I just got an issue with KDM/GDM appearing on the wrong screen. :)
[22:55] <willis_> but thats fixable in kdm/gdm configs
[22:57] <willis_> Heh. NOW it wants a reboot.. :) go figure.. couldent of tole me that 10 min ago..
[22:59] <Amaranth> that's fixable in gdm config?
[22:59] <Amaranth> i thought that was because nvidia was stupid and setting my external monitor as the primary
[22:59] <willis_> yes. :) you have to manually edit the config file
[22:59] <strabes> what's the story with alpha 6?
[22:59] <strabes> isn't it supposed to come out today?
[22:59] <macogw> strabes: not out yet
[22:59] <Amaranth> because obviously the one physically attached to my laptop is not the main screen
[23:00] <Amaranth> willis_: change what?
[23:00] <strabes> oh, bummer
[23:00] <macogw> something about a bug thats too bad to release with
[23:00] <willis_> Amaranth,   I though the problem was with X being stupud. :) but I am on a desktop, so which one is the primary. :)
[23:00] <willis_> Amaranth,  theres some default screen to start gdm on, setting in the gdmrc
[23:00] <Amaranth> i don't do multiscreen though
[23:00] <Amaranth> i have twinview
[23:00] <willis_> I nogiced the nvidia-xconfig tool had a check box for primary monitor also.
[23:00] <Amaranth> one screen stretched over two monitors
[23:00] <willis_> Amaranth,  yes. but gdm still sort of sees it as 2 screens
[23:01] <Amaranth> that nvidia-settings checkbox does something that breaks nvidia's emulation of xinerama
[23:01] <Amaranth> so panels blow over both monitors and alt-f2 dialog is half-and-half and etc
[23:01] <willis_> twinview is doing some tweaking., twinview normally REpLACES xinerama  - i dont think you want to enable ximerama and twinviewq both
[23:01] <Amaranth> no no
[23:01] <Amaranth> randr12 and twinview both pretend to be xinerama
[23:02] <Amaranth> they set the "xinerama hints" so applications know what is going on and don't "center" themselves half on one monitor and half on the other
[23:02] <willis_> From what ive seen If i enable xinerama - i get those problems you mentioned.  I enble twinviww, disable xinerama, and have no idea on randr12 :) never used that befior
[23:02] <willis_> even with twinview ive seen some dumb apps still go in the middle.
[23:02] <Amaranth> right, because they don't read the xinerama hints
[23:03] <willis_> that makes vmware a real pain that they dont do that. :) it may be fixed in vmware however.
[23:04] <macogw> the new intel wireless isnt in l-r-m, right?
[23:04] <macogw> its unrestricted, right? it doesnt show in the restricted manager
[23:05] <willis_> well time to reboot this puppy and see what the new kernel offers. :)
[23:07] <Amaranth> macogw: right, it's included in 2.6.24 and has no control daemon
[23:07] <Amaranth> it's just driver and firmware
[23:08] <Amaranth> the firmware is in linux-ubuntu-modules
[23:08] <cyphase> does anyone else find it annoying that if the system "thumbnails" a video before installing codecs, after you install the codecs, it doesn't re-thumbail the files?
[23:08] <cyphase> i know i can just delete the ~/.thumbnail directory..
[23:09] <cyphase> but that's not a really good solution
[23:10] <macogw> Amaranth: so why do i have l-r-m?
[23:10] <Amaranth> because it's pulled in automatically
[23:10] <Amaranth> better to have the driver and not need it than need it and not have it, i guess
[23:12] <macogw> if i purge them will they go away from my vrms?
[23:12] <macogw> or will they keep messing up my score?
[23:13] <Amaranth> vrms? are you serious?
[23:13] <macogw> oh purge does work
[23:13] <macogw> mythtv sent it to heck anyway
[23:13]  * RAOF wonders what vrms is, and how it has a "score".
[23:13] <macogw> RAOF: Virtual Richard M Stallman
[23:14] <macogw> counts what % of your packages are non-free
[23:14] <RAOF> Right.  That was what I was thinking.
[23:14] <macogw> 1.6% now that i got rid of l-r-m
[23:14] <macogw> why are the ubuntu human icons non-free though?
[23:14] <macogw> i dont get it
[23:14] <Amaranth>   9 non-free packages, 0.6% of 1611 installed packages.
[23:14] <cyphase> anyone know what package that would fall under? that tumbnail bug..
[23:14] <macogw> i tango is because its CC not GPL
[23:14] <Amaranth> macogw: they're creative commons
[23:14] <macogw> oh ok
[23:14] <cyphase> thumbnail*
[23:15] <Amaranth> macogw: CC licenses are not DFSG-Free
[23:15] <macogw> i dont really get why CC is considered non-free
[23:15] <Amaranth> cyphase: nautilus
[23:15] <macogw> huh?
[23:15] <Amaranth> macogw: Debian Free Software Guidelines
[23:15] <macogw> CC-SA is pretty much identical to the GPL
[23:15] <macogw> oh
[23:15] <Amaranth> Nope, not legally
[23:15]  * hydrogen giggles
[23:15] <hydrogen> omg ITS NOT FREE ENOUGH
[23:15] <macogw> whats the difference? it says if you use it you have to use the same license that says "share!"
[23:16] <hydrogen> My virtual rms is better endowed than your virtual rms!
[23:16] <Amaranth> DFSG is stricter than FSF, according to the DFSG the GFDL is non-Free
[23:16] <askand> Anyone knows anything about alpha 6?
[23:16] <macogw> well i cant purge myth til my school project is done
[23:16] <Amaranth> GFDL is from the FSF :P
[23:16] <macogw> askand: held up by a bug
[23:16] <macogw> Amaranth: i know
[23:16] <hydrogen> mostly because debian users need a way to feel like they are better than everyone else
[23:16] <Amaranth> linux-generic             Complete Generic Linux kernel
[23:16] <Amaranth> wth
[23:16] <Amaranth> oh, it pulls in linux-restricted-modules
[23:16] <Amaranth> which i need, nvidia
[23:17] <askand> macogw: ok thanks
[23:17] <macogw> mine's all mythtv, human icons, tangerine icons, and spim (MIPS emulator for school)
[23:18] <Amaranth> vrms is not very precise though, gnewsense has stripped individual files out of the kernel because they aren't free enough
[23:18] <macogw> i think flash should be on the list too, but it came along when i copied my ~/.mozilla or something so vrms doesnt know about it
[23:18] <macogw> i really wish more media was available as oggs :(
[23:18] <Amaranth> so according to gnewsense the pristine upstream kernel tree is apparently not free enough :P
[23:19] <macogw> wow
[23:19] <Amaranth> yeah
[23:19] <Amaranth> apparently there are some files that they say are just non-Free firmware converted into mostly unreadable C code
[23:20] <macogw> oh like the NV drivers?
[23:20] <macogw> super-duper-obfuscated crap?
[23:20] <Amaranth> something like that
[23:20] <Amaranth> they probably don't ship nv either
[23:34] <cyphase> Alpha 6 is coming down..
[23:38] <h3sp4wn> The gnewsense take seems a little extreme to me when they support running with a non-free bios
[23:39] <naught101> have there been any updates in the last few hours?
[23:40] <h3sp4wn> And they don't even support ppc - pegasos open desktop workstation is the only machine I know with fully open everything
[23:42] <cyphase> Alpha 6 is here!
[23:42] <cyphase> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/alpha-6/
[23:58] <NoelJB> Ah, I love the smell of alpha code in the evening ... http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/alpha-6/
[23:59] <pwnguin> why do people come in here and advertise new alphas?


[04:42] <alusion> When I powered on my system
[04:43] <alusion> It has been taking unusually long time now stuck at cryptsetup: sda5_crypt set up successfully
[04:44] <rodrigo> admin <server>
[05:26] <what_if> Should I buy a G5 mac pro for linux use?
[05:27] <what_if> Is there anything that does not work on G5 linux (flash, youtube, etc)?
[06:11] <rishabh_> hi
[06:12] <rishabh_> gfsss
[06:16] <rishabh_> hi
[06:16] <rishabh_> n k
[06:22] <rob_> Hello
[06:24] <rob_> Any one know where to go to find a list of chatrooms for information about linux operating systems?
[08:10] <calwig> hi, i just created a USB boot disk but I think it changed the PC partition
[08:11] <calwig> Im afraid that if I boot I will not get a boot menu
[08:11] <calwig> how can it be checked to see if the boot sector is still going to boot from the PC?
[09:42] <novaisabadcat> Is there a way to sort the application launcher's "application" entries alphabetically without having to manually drag each entry?
[10:43] <paradiznik> Hello guys. I have abit of a problem. I have a lenovo e520 with switchable graphics and i cant get my battery to run more than 2 hours (while office work).
[10:44] <paradiznik> was searching on forums but cant find any solution that would work for me.
[10:46] <freed0m> hi to all
[10:46] <freed0m> i have a question
[10:47] <freed0m> i have a kubuntu 12.04
[10:47] <freed0m> and i added the ppa of kde and now i have kde 4.10
[10:47] <freed0m> but i have a lot's of problem of crashing
[10:47] <freed0m> question:if i upgrade from 12.04 to 12.10, is that ok?
[11:28] <nabalzs> Hello. Does Kubuntu has the same security updates as the main Ubuntu? (against malwares spywares...etc.)
[11:30] <Tm_T> nabalzs: yes, Kubuntu is Ubuntu
[11:30] <Tm_T> and the other way around
[11:31] <nabalzs> Tm_T: thank you
[11:49] <MsCourtney> Does Kubuntu work with Secure boot?
[12:27] <electron> hi
[14:14] <echofish_> Hello. Is there an "Hardware Drivers" application on Kubuntu?
[14:42] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[14:54] <Hemza> I changed from Ubuntu 12.04 because of unity. I finsh the intallation of Kubuntu 12.04.2 and the update. KDE is not so fast as Gnome. Is there a way to enhace the boot and package lanch???
[15:01] <BluesKaj> Hemza, your boot launch timing is controlled in /etc/default/grub, by the line GRUB_TIMEOUT=X (seconds)
[15:03] <BluesKaj> Hemza, how did you install Kubuntu , clean or did you install kubuntu-desktop and still retain your Ubuntu /Unity or Gnome apps and packages?
[15:05] <Hemza> @BluesKaj, a clean install. I think the issue is in the KDE design... I'm used to Gnome2 and XFCE,,, for that i feel some differences.
[15:06] <BluesKaj> Hemza, that maybe your impression of KDE , but most ppl who switch to KDE find that the opposite is true.
[15:07] <away> well, you can run an xfce DE in kubuntu, but then you might as well install xubuntu instead
[15:11] <Hemza> @away, No No.. I want to try KDE. I want to participate in this community
[15:16] <Steven_Seagal_> Hemza, try this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1889034 (sorry i don't speak english)
[15:18] <Hemza> Steven_Seagal_: thank you so much, that is what was looking for.
[15:20] <Steven_Seagal_> Hemza ;)
[15:33] <BluesKaj> IMO , trying make KDE "blazingly fast" " might save a half second here and there , but defeats the purpose of some KDE's benefits.. Hemza
[15:34] <nook> Hey, i bought this remote controlle from amazon, and it works good with Kubuntu 12.10 (http://www.amazon.de/Unbekannt-X10-PC-Funkfernbedienung-mit-USB-Empf%C3%A4nger/dp/B004KVRSGO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1361720029&sr=8-2)
[15:34] <nook> But i miss some keys, is it possible to change the default keys without Lirc?
[15:37] <BluesKaj> nook, this is and english chat , please post websites written in english
[15:37] <BluesKaj> an
[15:39] <nook> BluesKaj, sorry but i dont know if ther is a english version of this post someware
[15:41] <BluesKaj> nook, then perhaps the people at #kubunru-de can help you
[15:41] <BluesKaj> #kubuntu-de
[15:43] <nook> BluesKaj, but my only question is, is ther a way to change de default keymap? Thats my loaded Kernel Modul: ati_remote             18282  0
[15:43] <nook> rc_core                22331  3 rc_medion_x10_digitainer,ati_remote
[15:47] <DarthFrog> nook:  Why without lirc?
[15:47] <DarthFrog> Or is it not an IR remote?
[15:48] <nook> DarthFrog, yep, its an X10 remote controle without IR. But i found a website and they are using lirc. But if i use lirc i have to configure the complet keymap, but i only want to change some keys^^
[15:49] <DarthFrog> nook:  You'll have to find out where the current keymap is and edit it.  I've used lirc a fair bit but not radio remotes.
[15:50] <nook> DarthFrog, but how can i find the keymap? Never done some like this before...
[15:50] <DarthFrog> nook:  You're going to have to read the documentation and/or HOW-TO.
[15:53] <nook> DathFrog, yes i think so too, i found some (only german -.-) pages with the same or an older remotes but all x10. I think the german Company Medion is the only who builds x10 radio remoes^^
[15:56] <DarthFrog> nook:  Well, I'm Canadian so can't help you with German documentation.  I'm sure there are lots of x10 users though, either on IRC or web forums.
[16:01] <alusion> guys
[16:02] <alusion> I have my kubuntu system LVM encrypted
[16:02] <alusion> however when I enter my cryptsetup password
[16:02] <alusion> it is indefinently stuck at cryptsetup: sda5_crypt set up successfully
[16:02] <alusion> I can't log into my system
[16:06] <alusion> I'm at the grub menu
[16:06] <alusion> how can I fix
[16:30] <yofel> alusion: that sounds like the login manager never shows up, try pressing ctrl+alt+f1 and see if you can get to a shell login prompt there
[16:30] <yofel> after it sets up sda5_crypt
[16:30] <alusion> yofel: it says that the sda5_crypt set up successfully
[16:31] <alusion> but it just stays at that loading screen
[16:31] <yofel> yeah, at that point press ctrl+alt+f1 and see if you get a text login prompt
[16:31] <alusion> I press it and I just get a little blinking underscore in the corner
[16:33] <yofel> hm... ok, at the grub prompt, edit the ubuntu entry and remove "quiet splash vt.handoff=7" from the linux/kernel entry
[16:33] <yofel> maybe that will tell more
[16:34] <yofel> I need to go, will be back in a bit
[16:38] <MsCourtney> Does Kubuntu 12.10 support secure boot?
[16:38] <alusion> yesh
[16:40] <ikonia> ....does it ?
[16:43] <BluesKaj> MsCourtney, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/Kubuntu#QuantalQuetzal.2BAC8-ReleaseNotes.2BAC8-CommonInfrastructure.Secure_Boot
[16:53] <alusion> The problem persists
[16:54] <alusion> with no acute informtion to lean on
[16:54] <alusion> nvm verbose mode is saying stuff
[17:27] <alusion> having boot issues. Default profile doesn't exist
[17:29] <alusion> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xwqno2aq4w1svsm/20130224_120246.jpg verbose
[17:30] <alusion> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5o3bctco2e7a6gl/20130224_122909.jpg booting recovery
[17:30] <alusion> then it goes into call trace
[17:30] <alusion> this happens after I enter my cryptsetup passwd
[17:37] <DarthFrog> alusion:  Do you have an unencrypted backup of your home directory?
[17:38] <alusion> DarthFrog: I used back in time. However I think I foolishly saved it on the same encrypted drive
[17:38] <DarthFrog> oops.
[17:40] <alusion> god is just testing me
[17:40] <alusion> teaching me a lesson
[17:41] <DarthFrog> if that comforts you, go for it. :-)
[17:41] <DarthFrog> but plan on re-installing.
[17:42] <alusion> I'm trying to mount the drive in a live environment
[17:42] <alusion> it tells me
[17:42] <alusion> Error has occured, system responded: The requested operation has failed:. Requested filesystem type is neither well-known nor in /proc/filesystems nor in /etc/filesystems
[17:43] <DarthFrog> alusion: what are you passing with the "-t " option?
[17:44] <DarthFrog> I *think* (but do not know) it should be cryptfs.
[17:44] <alusion> there's an issue with the cryptsetup
[17:44] <alusion> idk what you mean with your question however.
[17:44] <alusion> I'm just trying to access it via dolphin right now
[17:46] <DarthFrog> I've never played around with filesystem encryption.  It seems to me to be too chancy.
[17:51] <BluesKaj> yeah , never trusted encryption after some files were no longer accessible after an upgrade , luckily I had them backed up in decrypted form
[17:52] <alusion> It says
[17:52] <alusion> Yeah well it was my fault for bad backup habits
[17:52] <alusion> it says
[17:52] <alusion> I'm trying to access the filesystem in live kubuntu
[17:53] <alusion> 'An error occurred while accessing 'Home', the system responded: The device is currently busy.: One or more block devices are holding /dev/sda5
[18:09] <alusion> what's the default kubuntu root passwd?
[18:10] <DarthFrog> There isn't one.  Use your password to get root privileges via the "sudo" command.
[18:11] <alusion> yeah but I want to change directory
[18:11] <DarthFrog> On a live system, I don't think there are any passwords.
[18:11] <alusion> and if I sudo cd
[18:11] <DarthFrog> you don't need sudo to chdir.
[18:11] <alusion> it says sudo: cd: command not found
[18:11] <DarthFrog> cd is an alias for chdir.
[18:11] <DarthFrog> chdir is the real command.
[18:12] <alusion> chdir is not found though
[18:12] <DarthFrog> Huh?  That's not right.
[18:12] <alusion> I wanna access the folder but I don't have permission o_o
[18:13] <alusion> yeah chdir works on here but not in the live kubuntu environment I have up
[18:13] <alusion> I can access my backintime snapshots
[18:13] <alusion> :O
[18:13] <alusion> that means I'm saved?!
[18:13] <Riddell> alusion: if you need a root shell use  sudo bash
[18:14] <DarthFrog> Riddell:  he needs help with getting access to his encrypted filesystem.
[18:15] <alusion> I used sudo bash and changed dir to the folder
[18:15] <alusion> I see two things
[18:15] <alusion> Access-Your-Private-Data.desktop and README.txt
[18:15] <BluesKaj> chdir doesn't work here either
[18:15] <alusion> readme says to run ecryptfs-mount-private
[18:15] <alusion> I run it but I receive an error
[18:15] <DarthFrog> BluesKaj:  It seems that chdir has been removed.
[18:15] <alusion> Encrypted private directory is not setup properly
[18:15] <BluesKaj> looks so DarthFrog
[18:16] <DarthFrog> alusion: If you can get access to your backup, make a copy of it on an un-encrypted file system ASAP.
[18:17] <alusion> doing that right now
[18:18] <alusion> the file is practically empty
[18:18] <alusion> is this normal of backintime lol
[18:18] <BluesKaj> heh , I recall using cd to changer dirs on the original windows OS waaay back
[18:18] <DarthFrog> No idea.  Are you sure the backup completed successfully?
[18:18] <DarthFrog> BluesKaj:  It was a DOS command.
[18:18] <BluesKaj> yup
[18:19] <murthy> BluesKaj: hi
[18:19] <BluesKaj> I hateed MS-DOS tho ..clunky and slower than using a real file cabinet :)
[18:20] <alusion> how do I enable su in a gui
[18:20] <BluesKaj> hi murthy
[18:20] <alusion> because the command didn't work
[18:20] <alusion> I want to have su privalege in dolphin
[18:20] <DarthFrog> alusion:  kdesudo
[18:21] <DarthFrog> alusion:  Press ALT-F2, type "kdesudo dolphin".
[18:22] <alusion> Hmm
[18:22] <alusion> when accessing my encrypted drive it says
[18:22] <alusion> The device is currently busy.:One or more block devices are holding /dev/sda5
[18:27] <AbhiK> DarthFrog: when i did your step, i didn't get to see any files in my "Home"
[18:27] <DarthFrog> AbhiK: ?
[18:28] <AbhiK> but opening dolphin normally, shows me my /home/#user/ directory
[18:29] <DarthFrog> AbhiK:  That's because your in the /root directory.  You'll have to navigate to /home/abhik
[18:30] <AbhiK> DarthFrog: in normal dolphin, "Home" is same as my "/home/abhik" directory
[18:31] <DarthFrog> AbhiK:  Undt zo?
[18:31] <DarthFrog> When you issue the kdesudo command, you're acting as root, not AbhiK
[18:31] <AbhiK> foriegn language?
[18:32] <AbhiK> ohkay!
[18:32] <DarthFrog> No, not a foreign language, just Sunday morning playfullness.  :-)
[18:32] <AbhiK> :D
[18:32] <AbhiK> it's monday now in my region
[18:33] <AbhiK> 12am
[18:35] <alusion> I wonder
[18:35] <alusion> if I copy the home dir
[18:35] <alusion> if I can access it elsewhere
[18:35] <alusion> it's only 65gb
[18:35] <FloodBotK1> alusion: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[18:36] <alusion> Ah yes my bad FloodBotK1 , time to eat breakfast anyhow. Hopefully the *nix gods will favor me today
[18:47] <micha_> hallo
[18:55] <Watcher> Problem with kubuntu 12.04 and dual booting Win 7 Pro. Ihave Kubuntu installed on the first drive, just installed Win 7 on the third drive, first primary partition. I've modified grub menu.lst  to load to add Win 7 to the menu. Kubuntu boot fine, Win7 does not. I get a grub error 12. How can I make Win7 boot?
[18:56] <Torch> isn't it true anymore that windows always wants itself (or its ntloader) to be on the first partition, first drive?
[18:57] <Torch> but maybe i'm just confused.
[18:57] <BluesKaj> Watcher, grub menu.list is a part of grub legacy . insttall grub2 ,. then sudo update-grub
[18:59] <Watcher> BluesKaj: Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't looked at grub2. Does it handle Win 7 dual better?
[18:59] <BluesKaj> Torch, first partition yes , first drive , no
[18:59] <BluesKaj> Watcher, grub2 is the default bootloader in kubuntu since 9.10 i think .
[19:01] <Watcher> BluesKaj: I wonder I haven't been upgraded. I've been running Kubuntu since like 6.0x. I'll look for a package.
[19:02] <BluesKaj> Watcher, how have been upgrading , net upogrades or..?
[19:03] <Watcher> BluesKaj: Net upgrades.
[19:03] <BluesKaj> ahh, that might expalin it , Watcher
[19:04] <BluesKaj> Watcher, also run sudo os-prober before , sudo update-grub after grub2 is installed
[19:04] <Watcher> BluesKaj: The net upgrades have always completed OK without error. Do I need to upgrade from disk to cath the grub upgrade?
[19:05] <BluesKaj> no grub2 is in the repos
[19:05] <Watcher> BluesKaj: Thanks, I'll give it a try this afternoon.
[19:08] <BluesKaj> Watcher, btw there no longer be a grub menu.list , it's /etc/default/grub , here's a good read http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/grub-2.html
[19:09] <Watcher> Thanks BluesKaj. I'll go there now.
[19:27] <alusion> Cannot use device /dev/sda5 which is in use (already mapped or mounted).
[19:28] <alusion> I'm trying to open it up, gparted shows it's unmounted
[19:35] <alusion> When I try to boot in recovery
[19:35] <alusion> it says
[19:35] <alusion> Default profile doesn't exist
[19:35] <alusion> Select a profile from the following list
[19:35] <alusion> disable
[19:35] <FloodBotK1> alusion: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[19:55] <alusion> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/ubuntu-mounting-your-encrypted-home-from-livecd/ I'm using this guide to recover my home dir from my encrypted LVM
[19:55] <alusion> However I get stuck @ Mount /proc file system inside /media/chroot
[19:55] <alusion> because the mount point /media/chroot/ /dev does not exist
[19:56] <tbruff13> I need help with kde 4.10 on Kubuntu I cannot move icons around
[19:58] <alusion> Also when I try to mount the volume
[19:58] <alusion> it tells me mount: unknown filesystem type 'crypto_LUKS'
[20:05] <dougl> why don't my filters work in my 12.10 install with kmail?
[20:07] <dougl> I want to filter my gmail sent/rec'd into seprate folders - why does kmail make it so difficult?
[20:47] <aPpYe> uh ... my system just asked me to upgrade to 13.04.  I installed my own kde desktop from the mini.iso.  I have had only quantal in my souces.list for some time.
[20:48] <genii-around> So then it's probably prudent not to go to 13.04 yet since it's still in development
[20:49] <aPpYe> but shouldn't it have not prompted me until 13.04 was released?
[20:50] <genii-around> aPpYe: You already just got your answer in another channel so I won't bother repeating it
[20:50] <aPpYe> genii-around, yep.
[20:51] <james> hello
[20:52] <Guest92984> derp
[20:53] <BluesKaj> derp?
[20:53] <cowdog1> i was messing with stuff
[20:53] <BluesKaj> stuff , oh that
[20:54] <BluesKaj> :)
[20:54] <cowdog1> k
[20:55] <cowdog1> so i just installed the ghost theme and its awesome
[20:56] <cowdog1> i can seem to find any icon themes that go with it thoug
[21:01] <BluesKaj> well one man's awesome is another's fugly ...hard to find anything awesome anymore since word is so over used
[21:10] <lordievader> Good evening :)
[21:33] <martinPL> hi, i have just installed my Kubuntu 12.10, i have installed kubuntu-resticted-extras and -addons, but the system will still not play video files, do you know what is wrong?
[21:39] <BluesKaj> martinPL,  in dragonplayer?
[21:45] <BluesKaj> !libdvdcss2 | martinPL
[21:46] <BluesKaj> !medibuntu | martinPL
[23:14] <Watcher> BluesKaj:I've upgraded to grub2 and I've run the before and after commands. I still can't boot Win 7. When I try I get these messages "error: No such device: 22cc193bcc190b25" and "error: No such partition". Any other suggestions?
[23:56] <MichaelP> How do i get pulseaudio's built in eq working ? In konsol i run qpaeq and get command not found !!


[12:22] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Are you about?
[15:08] <bjf> moin
[15:22] <cjwatson> proposed-migration is now running by default for trusty and utopic (in no-automatic-copies mode).  I also tweaked the control scripts to make sure proposed-migration runs again if any tests are in progress, so that we don't get stuck if the archive doesn't change but say an autopkgtest finishes.
[15:24] <rbasak> cjwatson: o/
[15:24] <rbasak> cjwatson: this is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1321691 ?
[15:24] <rbasak> Or something else?
[15:25] <cjwatson> Oh, I didn't notice that
[15:25] <cjwatson> (recently)
[15:26] <cjwatson> bdmurray: Would you be up for attempting to integrate stable release autopkgtests into pending-sru.html?  The best approximately machine-readable form is probably http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/trusty/update_excuses.yaml
[15:28] <cjwatson> Though we should get rid of the HTML tags from that IMO
[15:28] <cjwatson> Well, maybe
[15:28] <cjwatson> Anyway if we knew that u-a-t was using it we could take appropriate care about compatibility
[15:44] <bdmurray> cjwatson: yes, of course
[15:46] <cjwatson> lovely, thank you
[15:46] <bdmurray> what am I looking for in update_excuses?
[15:47] <cjwatson> anything with the reason set to autopkgtest
[15:48] <cjwatson> in which case the excuses field will contain more detail
[15:48] <cjwatson> we could perhaps argue that anything with is_candidate: false should at least be a yellow flag to SRU admins
[15:48] <cjwatson> and reason/excuses are refinements of that
[15:49] <cjwatson> that may take a while to settle down though
[15:49] <cjwatson> yeah, on reflection I think is_candidate: false is the top-level thing to look for
[15:50] <bdmurray> got it
[16:01] <apw> cjwatson, how often are those running ?  and are the <series>/* results the right ones?
[16:01] <cjwatson> apw: any time the relevant suites change and also now any time tests are still in progress, same as vivid; and yes
[16:02] <cjwatson> saw no reason to invent new logic there
[16:03] <apw> cjwatson, hmm, i have been looking at the generated-date: to confirm proposed-migration is running to completion, that seems flawed in the light of that
[16:03] <apw> cjwatson, is there some way i can tell otherwise?
[16:04] <cjwatson> apw: if I understand correctly then you could look at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/log/trusty/ etc. instead
[16:04] <cjwatson> if it has "Finished at:" at the end then it's good
[16:04] <cjwatson> the last log
[16:05] <apw> cjwatson, wergely 9m that last log
[16:05] <cjwatson> the same strategy was always flawed in principle for the development suite, it's just that it changes all the time
[16:06] <cjwatson> apw: yeah that's mostly because it's noticing vast piles of binary differences and applying a Debian-specific "smooth updates" thing; I need to work out how to turn that off correctly
[16:06] <apw> cjwatson, yes indeed, as you say i thought it was safe, because it always runs, i don't think i am downloading that heap to work it out though
[16:08] <cjwatson> I'll try to do something about that this week if I don't get hopelessly distracted
[16:08] <cjwatson> Since the log volume will become a problem over time
[16:10] <apw> cjwatson, it might be that i want to know when the last update to the pocket was, and that proposed migration finished since then
[16:12] <cjwatson> Perhaps we should put this in the SRU report
[16:13] <cjwatson> Though it seems slightly like human nagios :-)
[17:17] <elfy> Laney: is it you who's going to be sorting the vervet beta1 images tomorrow?
[17:17] <Laney> yes sir
[17:28] <flexiondotorg> Is there anyone here who can review some uploads for Ubuntu MATE that are awaiting review in the upload queue?
[17:40] <elfy> Laney: cool - timezones should be a bit easier then - what time do you think you'll be firing it up?
[17:40] <Laney> Dunno, morning?
[17:41] <elfy> okey - afaik the wiki I set up is right, I'll be gone before you're about likely, around lunchtime then 4ish
[17:41] <elfy> by wiki - I mean I assume that those taking part have said yes
[17:42] <Laney> seemed okay from what I was expecting
[17:42] <elfy> yep
[18:18] <cjwatson> slangasek: did you get a chance to look at https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/britney/dynamic-arches/+merge/250462 ?
[18:18] <cjwatson> (thanks for merging the rest of my stack!)
[18:19] <flexiondotorg> infinity, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1423597 (MAATE Tweak)
[18:20] <flexiondotorg> infinity, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1423581 (MATE Menu)
[18:20] <cjwatson> Ah, there are the MATE tasks now
[18:20]  * cjwatson kicks off a fresh build
[18:21] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/vivid/ubuntu-mate/+build/20555 is the amd64 build
[18:21] <cjwatson> Oh
[18:21] <cjwatson> I forgot to devirt that
[18:21] <cjwatson> Bah and thrice bah.  Cancelling
[18:22] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Thanks for your help. I really appreciate.
[18:22] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/vivid/ubuntu-mate/+build/20557 should be better
[18:23] <cjwatson> Looks like there's been a batch of KDE uploads, though, so there's a bit of a queue.
[18:24] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Thanks. I'll check on that later.
[18:33] <wxl> Laney: any clues as to what time tomorrow beta 1 images will be available?
[18:48] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Does this mean it worked? https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/vivid/ubuntu-mate/+build/20557
[18:50] <cjwatson> flexiondotorg: Looks promising.  It's waiting on a few other things - http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu-mate/vivid/daily-live-20150223.1.log is updated every 15 minutes
[18:51] <cjwatson> I'm just watching it on the build system
[18:51] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, So would that job you started produce a cd image? Or is that just a job for the livefs?
[18:51] <cjwatson> It should do the whole thing
[18:52] <cjwatson> The livefs is built on Launchpad and then the rest of it assembled separately
[18:54] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Thanks for the info. Will be interesting to see what it does, if anything.
[18:57] <cjwatson> flexiondotorg: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mate/daily-live/current/
[18:58] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Wow! Brilliant.
[18:58] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Thanks for your help. I'll give it a test and see what is busted.
[18:58] <cjwatson> flexiondotorg: You can probably reasonably ignore the oversized warning for now, since the size limit is a bit arbitrary anyway, but perhaps there's stuff there that shouldn't be.  Anyway, it's more important to see whether it works at all first.
[18:59] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, I think I ship way more language than the other flavours.
[18:59] <cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu-mate.vivid/ may be useful too.
[18:59] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Thanks.
[19:00] <cjwatson> flexiondotorg: I've set it to build nightly, now that it at least somewhat works.
[19:00] <cjwatson> So hopefully you can take it from here.
[19:00] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Excellent. I taken some days of work later this week to try and knock everything into shape.
[19:01] <cjwatson> Great.
[19:02] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Sorry, on a call.
[19:03] <flexiondotorg> infinity, No problem 😃
[19:03] <flexiondotorg> infinity, I've pushed the copyright changes, updated the original package requests. I think cyphermox is going to upload them.
[19:11] <cjwatson> finally, lp:ubuntu-cdimage tests pass again
[19:11] <cjwatson> hopefully they can be kept that way :P
[19:15] <cjwatson> stgraber: I guess "Ubuntu MATE Desktop amd64" and "Ubuntu MATE Desktop i386" should exist on the tracker at some point now?
[19:17] <elfy> is that going to impact on beta tomorrow?
[19:18] <cjwatson> what, mate?
[19:18] <elfy> yea
[19:18] <cjwatson> I don't see how
[19:18] <elfy> if it's going on tracker
[19:18] <cjwatson> won't make a difference
[19:18] <elfy> cjwatson: by impact I mean - do they want to do that
[19:18] <cjwatson> I think you misunderstand
[19:18] <elfy> probably
[19:18] <cjwatson> all the images we build should exist on the tracker
[19:19] <cjwatson> that's not the same as tracking them for a particular milestone
[19:19] <cjwatson> it means that they can be tracked for milestones in the future
[19:19] <elfy> yes I understand that - just assuming that if it is on the tracker that Mate would want to use *it*
[19:20] <cjwatson> well, that's up to them
[19:20] <cjwatson> but I would like the error messages from cdimage about the lack of tracker support to go away :)
[19:20] <elfy> :)
[19:20] <elfy> I can understand that as well :p
[19:20] <cjwatson> I would think that it's far too late for ubuntu-mate to be ready for beta
[19:21] <cjwatson> I could be wrong, but it would be pretty exceptional speed even if working full-time on it
[19:21] <cjwatson> and I understand not all their packages are in yet
[19:23] <elfy> right - actually only asked as I wasn't awake and I  put my name down onReleaseTaskSignup :)
[19:29] <flexiondotorg> elfy, Remember you said you'd show me round the QA stuff 😉
[19:30] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, There are 3 packages missing.
[19:31] <flexiondotorg> 2 of those are in the upload queue.
[19:31] <cjwatson> elfy: fair enough :)
[19:31] <cjwatson> flexiondotorg: *nod*
[19:33] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, So would you expect to ubiquity to fail if there are missing packages?
[19:33] <flexiondotorg> Still downloading the iso...
[19:33] <elfy> flexiondotorg: I can't find that anywhere in my logs :p
[19:35] <cjwatson> flexiondotorg: Probably not; it'll mostly be copying the filesystem it's given
[19:35] <elfy> flexiondotorg: place for that with me would be #ubuntu-quality though
[19:36] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Interesting, thanks.
[19:36]  * flexiondotorg goes to join #ubuntu-quality
[19:47] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Initial testing is positive 😃
[19:47] <cjwatson> Cool.  No need to tell me about further progress though, I was just the build monkey :)
[19:48] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, It might be suitable for Beta1. Is that even possible at this stage?
[19:48] <cjwatson> I don't know, ask the people driving it
[19:48] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseTaskSignup
[19:49] <cjwatson> It would be pretty amazing to be able to do a milestone three days after your first images roll out, but I guess it's possible
[19:57] <elfy> flexiondotorg: as far as I'm concerned - all I'd want to know is that you wanted to take part and that Ubuntu MAte was on the beta1 wiki before I wander off in the morning
[19:57] <elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/Beta1
[19:57] <flexiondotorg> elfy, I want to participate.
[19:59] <flexiondotorg> elfy, I have updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/Beta1
[19:59] <flexiondotorg> elfy, Although it looks like my changes need approving.
[20:00] <elfy> it was there - dodgy wiki error - I moved you though :)
[20:00] <balloons> stgraber, actually I have no permissions to set owners on iso.qa.ubuntu.com.. can you fix that?
[20:01] <elfy> Laney: just in case you don't notice - Mate added to Beta 1 run
[20:03] <flexiondotorg> elfy, Thanks.
[20:05] <bdmurray> cjwatson: only use update_excuses for Trusty and Utopic though correct?
[21:00] <stgraber> balloons: so what's the LP team for MATE access to the tracker?
[21:00] <elfy> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-release
[21:00] <elfy> stgraber: ^^
[21:04] <stgraber> ok, access updated
[21:05] <elfy> ty stgraber - I see that here
[22:52] <cjwatson> bdmurray: For now, but it'll hopefully exist for precise fairly soon too.  Never lucid though.
[22:59] <bdmurray> cjwatson: something like this? http://people.canonical.com/~brian/tmp/sru-report.html
[23:00] <cjwatson> bdmurray: looks pretty good!
[23:00] <cjwatson> (modulo lack of line breaks and such in a few places which I'm sure you've spotted)
[23:01] <cjwatson> but yeah, that's pretty close to what I was thinking of.  Indeed probably doesn't make sense to introduce a new column and have the page be even wider
[23:01] <bdmurray> cjwatson: right, I'll fix that up
[23:50] <bluesabre> I don't seem to be able to upload thunar to vivid/vivid-proposed... "The signer of this package is lacking the upload rights for the source package, component or package set in question." I still appear to be in the packageset, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/vivid/xubuntu - any idea whats going on?
[23:55] <ScottK> bluesabre: Seems a bit odd.  It's in mythbuntu and studio, but not xubuntu
[23:57] <bluesabre> ScottK: don't suppose there's an easy resolution? :)
[23:57] <ScottK> Easy is ask Laney and wait.  Won't be quick however.
[23:58] <bluesabre> ok, np
[23:58] <bluesabre> Thanks ScottK


[09:24] <lifeless> wgrant: am I going to be disappoint if I ask about OOPS-6d81cb892ef5856f7cfcc3285c6db4ea
[09:30] <wgrant> lifeless: A retry doesn't work?
[09:31] <lifeless> that was the retry
[09:31] <lifeless> a direct post rather than API worked
[09:32] <wgrant> It's in some part because of the linked questions.
[09:33] <wgrant> (those notifications are all in-request, unlike bug notifications)
[09:52] <lifeless> I remember :)
[19:23] <lifeless> wgrant: qastaging is down/gone ?
[19:29] <cjwatson> I think it's being shuffled around as part of staging upgrades
[19:29] <cjwatson> (don't know details, just background memory of -ops scrollback)
[19:44] <lifeless> ack thanks


[07:19] <jibel> Good morning
[07:20] <didrocks> salut jibel
[07:21] <jibel> Salut didrocks , ça va?
[07:21] <duflu> Hi jibel + didrocks
[07:22] <jibel> Hi duflu
[07:27] <didrocks> jibel: ça va et toi ?
[07:27] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:39] <jibel> didrocks, ça va bien
[07:54] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:59] <duflu> Hi oSoMoN
[08:02] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[09:01] <Laney> yo
[09:02] <seb128> hey Laney
[09:02] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[09:07] <duflu> Hey Laney and seb128
[09:07] <seb128> hey duflu, how is the hacking going today?
[09:08] <duflu> seb128, incredibly frustrating (upstream made a few conflicts for me today) but now very fruitful. How are you?
[09:08] <oSoMoN> good morning Laney, seb128
[09:08] <duflu> Although the frustration also came from community testing discussions
[09:10] <duflu> And it came from knowing I need to finish on time to cook dinner tonight, and will be away tomorrow. Everything is my own making in a way
[09:14] <seb128> lut oSoMoN
[09:15] <seb128> duflu, well, if things get ready friday or next week rather than today it's no big deal, we are early in the cycle and their is no freeze or anything pending, just relax and go cook dinner
[09:21] <Laney> morning seb128 duflu oSoMoN
[09:21] <Laney> whats up
[09:22] <willcooke> morning all
[09:24] <duflu> Hi willcooke
[09:33] <oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
[09:33] <willcooke> oSoMoN, thanks for testing with Sogou, its great to hear it works!
[09:35] <oSoMoN> yeah, I was pleasantly surprised that it didn't require any tweaking
[09:44] <seb128> hey willcooke
[10:03] <seb128> who here has an "airplane mode" key on their laptop keyboard?
[10:05] <willcooke> seb128, I have a "wifi off" button
[10:06] <seb128> willcooke, I'm not sure it's the same? it's to test/debug bug #1740894
[10:06] <seb128> the xkeyboard-config SRU makes the key being handled, but apparently then getting out of airplane mode fails
[10:07] <willcooke> if I run xev I should see KEY_RFKILL right?
[10:07] <seb128> though your key might trigger the same mode
[10:08] <willcooke> reading the bug
[10:09] <seb128> willcooke, well, it's easy, it's basically "using the key should toggle airplane mode on/off"
[10:09] <seb128> though the reporter here seems to have an issue where the second use doesn't success to toggle it off
[10:13] <willcooke> my key works fine, so I guess I can't reproduce
[10:25] <seb128> k, might be hardware specific
[10:26] <seb128> willcooke, thx for testing
[10:26] <seb128> Laney, ^ that mentions XPS, maybe you could give it a try see if yours behaves the same way?
[10:32] <Laney> seb128: the rfkill key?
[10:32] <Laney> it works, I use it often
[10:33] <Laney> mainly to toggle NM when it craps itself :-)
[10:35] <Laney> oh yeah, I am on wayland tho
[10:36] <Laney> hello from x
[10:36] <Laney> the key still works, sorry :(
[10:53] <jibel> seb128, what's the naming convention for blueprints?
[10:56] <jibel> seb128, would desktop-dd-<project_name> be fine?
[12:39] <seb128> jibel, yes, that sounds fine as naming
[12:44] <seb128> Laney, weird :/ what keycode does it generate? our xkeyboard-config didn't have the definition of rkfill so it shouldn't be working
[12:45] <seb128> or maybe it's handled at the hardware level ... but g-s-d is supposed to inhibit the kernel handling
[12:47] <Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/g6T7RNrtDZ/ that's what xev says
[12:53] <seb128> no KeyPress KeyRelease events, weird
[12:54] <Laney> don't get those for other osd keys either
[12:54] <Laney> probably the osd grabs focus
[12:55] <seb128> the debug comments on https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-settings-daemon/issues/90 have the events
[12:55] <gitbot> GNOME issue 90 in gnome-settings-daemon "Airplane mode key on Asus ZenBook Flip UX561UD laptop not working in gnome-shell 3.30 (X or Wayland) but working on console. (Ubuntu Cosmic 18.10)" [3. Not Gnome, Closed]
[12:55] <seb128> unsure what's different
[12:55] <Laney> or g-s-d has grabbed the key or something
[12:55] <seb128> I wonder if it means g-s-d is bailing out from inhibiting the kernel handling for you
[12:56] <seb128> and so the key is being handled low level
[12:56] <Laney> would expect to see it for volume up/down no?
[12:56] <seb128> unless it's the same and hardware handled on the xps
[12:56] <seb128> I don't remember exactly how those are working :/
[12:56] <seb128> well, thx for trying :)
[12:57] <Laney> If I map them to another key it still gives me the same events
[12:59] <seb128> I do get a keyrelease event here with the volume
[12:59] <seb128> but no keypress
[12:59] <seb128> weird
[12:59] <seb128> KeyRelease event, serial 38, synthetic NO, window 0x5000001,
[12:59] <seb128>     root 0xf7, subw 0x0, time 23588627, (-28,858), root:(1318,910),
[12:59] <seb128>     state 0x10, keycode 122 (keysym 0x1008ff11, XF86AudioLowerVolume), same_screen YES,
[12:59] <seb128> that's under and xorg session, not wayland
[12:59] <Laney> i'm on xorg now
[13:00] <seb128> k
[13:00] <seb128> well I don't know enough about that stack to have a guess at the difference between the systems
[13:00] <seb128> the bug is also not that important, I'm just going to put it on the side for now
[13:00] <seb128> thx for poking though!
[13:01] <Laney> I could see if the SRUed package makes it worse for me too
[13:02] <seb128> it would be useful to see if it creates a difference in the xev/g-s-d handling at least
[13:30] <Laney> seems more buggy with respect to coming out of airplane mode now
[13:30] <Laney> also my key sends XF86WLAN now XF86RFKill, that's probably why it worked
[13:30] <Laney> s/now/not/
[13:34] <seb128> ok, so you at least confirm the regression
[13:36] <Laney> seems so :<
[13:36] <seb128> I'm confused though
[13:36] <seb128> the diff is https://launchpadlibrarian.net/394768060/xkeyboard-config_2.23.1-1ubuntu1_2.23.1-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>.diff.gz
[13:36] <seb128> it shouldn't impact on your key since the symbol it's using was already define before that change
[13:38] <Laney> all very weird
[13:39] <seb128> yeah, exactly my though :)
[13:39] <seb128> +t
[13:44] <andyrock> Laney: do snaps have access to /run
[13:44] <andyrock> ?
[13:44] <Laney> dunno
[13:46] <andyrock> Laney: otherwise the boot-id seems like a good idea but in the short-term we still that workaround
[13:47] <Laney> good old short-term workarounds :-)
[13:49] <seb128> andyrock, jdstrand probably knows
[13:50] <andyrock> I'll keep that in mind when I'll rewrite the way canonical-livepatch updates the status file (we need that anyway)
[13:50] <seb128> oh I see you asked on #snappy
[13:50] <seb128> probably a better idea :)
[13:50] <andyrock> Laney: I know but we really want that fixed in the short-term :P
[13:51] <jdstrand> andyrock: what in /run do you want access to? (the short answer is that /run is (for the most part) /run from the host, but security policy limit what you can access there)
[13:52] <andyrock> jdstrand: yeah I got  the same answer in #snappy
[13:53] <Laney> andyrock: sure, I didn't try to stop you fixing it
[13:53] <Laney> I was more hinting that I bet this code still exists in 5 years
[13:54] <Laney> it's like the curse you bring down when you call something "short term" :P
[13:58] <andyrock> 😂
[14:03] <andyrock> seb128: Laney: so it looks like that we can use /run/user/0/snap.canonical-livepatch/status
[14:04] <seb128> except the issue Jamie just pointed out :p
[14:04] <andyrock> ah countermand
[14:05] <seb128> well, that's an ongoing discuss/item for this cycle, if you say the status file code needs updating anyway
[14:05] <seb128> meanwhile the update-notifier "temporary" solution will do...
[14:05] <Laney> the lifetime of that directory is not right
[14:05] <andyrock> Laney: is not per boot?
[14:05] <seb128> it's linked to the active session?
[14:05] <Laney> your xdg runtime directory gets removed when your last session ends
[14:06] <seb128> right, well there is no active session atm for those snaps
[14:06] <seb128> which is the issue Jamie was pointing you, /run/user/0 doesn't exist
[14:07] <Laney> ok, but it's not right even if it did
[14:08] <seb128> yeah, it should probably just be a file under /run
[14:09] <Laney> anyway
[14:09] <seb128> yeah
[14:09] <seb128> thx for the input Laney!
[14:09] <Laney> I usually try to propose nicer solutions if I see them
[14:09] <Laney> often they get ignored
[14:09] <Laney> that is life
[14:10] <Laney> ignored / not done
[14:10] <andyrock> can you argue that in #snappy
[14:11] <Laney> is there an argument ongoing?
[14:12] <Laney> if it were me I'd probably file a bug on livepatch asking if they think that is a good idea in the first place, as a first step
[14:13] <Laney> well, assuming there is a bug tracker for that thing :P
[14:17] <seb128> no much "arguing" no, discussing potential ways to provide what is needed
[14:17] <Laney> cool
[14:17] <seb128> but yeah, at this point best in a bug report
[14:17] <seb128> andyrock, let me know the bug number once you have it filed :)
[14:17] <Laney> it's a way to track the issue without having to spend a lot of time on it now or interrupt anyone
[14:18] <Laney> and if you can get it on a backlog, possibly even worked on at some point ;-)
[14:19] <seb128> zyg_a says they could add access to /run/snap.<SNAP_NAME> and maybe to it for the next .1
[14:20] <Laney> that would be nice
[14:20] <Laney> on that note, I have some avocado to eat
[14:20] <Laney> BYE
[14:20] <seb128> s/to it/do it/
[14:20] <seb128> Laney, enjoy!
[14:51] <Laney> big tasty
[14:56] <willcooke> kenvandine, you around for a quick call with diddledan?
[14:56] <kenvandine> sure
[14:56] <kenvandine> 5 minutes?
[15:00] <willcooke> kenvandine, cancel that, thx
[15:00] <kenvandine> willcooke: ok, just give me a shout if you need me
[15:02] <willcooke> thanks kenvandine
[15:43] <CarlenWhite> Huh. Got hit with a nasty lockup and didn't get a kernel panic screen. Picture just stuck and played a bit of sound in repeat.
[16:01] <seb128> Laney, btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1802112 if you were interested by the details of that discussion
[16:03] <Laney> nice, that went quite smoothly
[16:23] <Laney> how does XDG_RUNTIME_DIR even work for snaps?
[16:23] <Laney> do they have to make it and set up like the wayland socket and stuff themselves?
[16:25]  * Laney read the launch script, looks like it
[16:29] <Laney> https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/wayland-dconf-and-xdg-runtime-dir/186
[16:29] <Laney> went a bit quiet though
[16:31] <willcooke> wheeeeee: https://imgur.com/a/jbV2eaH
[16:43] <andyrock> 😂
[16:44] <andyrock> willcooke: I can take a look
[16:44] <andyrock> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1797205 do we want this in cosmic?
[16:44] <Laney> that one is filed somewhere
[16:44] <Laney> it actually doesn't happen for me any more on cosmic
[16:45] <willcooke> andyrock, not urgent, but I logged a bug anyway: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1802139
[16:46] <Laney> could be 86a520b880808ad18d397ab8e7a7a05b1a8b4e4c
[16:48] <willcooke> yeah, sounds like it could help
[16:48] <willcooke> https://git.launchpad.net/gnome-shell/commit/?id=86a520b880808ad18d397ab8e7a7a05b1a8b4e4c
[16:50] <andyrock> That reminds me that I get a crash when closing that dialog on gnome-shell upstream
[16:53] <Laney> it's ba33a05dd27e1c23bfcfbd4ac06fcb0d6e06ebf4 in the 3.28 branch, queued up for the next stable release
[16:53] <Laney> plenty of fixes in there :/
[16:55] <andyrock> :/ is for the fixes or because it's taking to lot to release the next 3.28.x ?
[16:55] <Laney> fixes are :D
[16:55] <Laney> not having them is :/
[16:56] <Laney> it is UNACCEPTABLE for it to be dark at this time too
[16:57] <andyrock> dsl is :/
[16:57] <andyrock> *dst
[17:02] <willcooke> I concur
[17:05] <seb128> willcooke, bug #1797205 doesn't have many reports so far so need to SRU imho but if we do one for other fixes we can include that one
[17:07] <andyrock> kk
[17:08] <Laney> it's in the branch, will get it naturally if we do the update
[17:09] <Laney> in 3.30.2 even, already out
[17:09] <andyrock> just asking because it has been in the "in review" trello list for too much
[17:10] <andyrock> maybe we need a list "waiting for release"
[17:12] <Laney> you could help it along by preparing the SRU ;-)
[17:15] <andyrock> Laney: sure thing
[17:16] <andyrock> let me prepare a mp to release in D before
[17:16] <Laney> cool
[17:16] <Laney> should be the same except changelog and control probably
[17:17] <andyrock> I'll do debian unstable too
[17:17] <Laney> nice one
[17:17] <Laney> I can review that tomorrow
[17:18]  * Laney uploads more bits to the systemd-user ppa
[17:23] <Laney> backporting this stuff to the package is so irritating
[17:23] <Laney> I should be doing it in git, at least then it would remember how to resolve the conflicts
[22:17] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, popey: FYI, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1505593
[22:18] <kenvandine> oSoMoN: thanks
[22:24]  * oSoMoN is off to bed and to a long week-end, see ya all next week


[00:26] <wallyworld> thumper: whenever.... https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11668
[01:29]  * thumper looks
[01:29]  * thumper looks briefly, and decides to look in more detail loater
[08:21] <Chipaca> 'juju status' (with 2.7.6 installed from snap) freezes apparently forever, is there a trick to it?
[08:23] <stickupkid> Chipaca, that normally happens if it can't communicate with the controller
[08:24] <stickupkid> Chipaca, there are other times when this can happen also as well, but that would be where I'd look first
[08:25] <Chipaca> stickupkid: it's just a local thing talking to an lxd, does that make a difference?
[08:25] <stickupkid> Chipaca, same scenario. What does `lxc list` say
[08:27] <Chipaca> stickupkid: so, this started happening yesterday, and as this is only used by me for testing stuff, i purged juju and lxd and reinstalled; 'lxc list' lists nothing, but 'juju bootsrap localhost overlord' tells me 'ERROR controller "overlord" already exists'
[08:27]  * Chipaca is probably breaking all kinds of stuff in his ignorance
[08:28] <stickupkid> Chipaca, so you don't have a controller, juju thinks there still is one. You have two options... clean up the ./local/share/juju yaml files or run `juju controllers --format=json | jq -r ".controllers | keys[]" | xargs -I% juju kill-controller -y -t 0 %`
[08:29] <stickupkid> it assumes you have `jq` installed.
[08:29] <Chipaca> why would the juju snap keep state outside of ~/snap :-/
[08:29] <Chipaca> sigh
[08:29] <stickupkid> --classic
[08:30] <stickupkid> Chipaca, we don't support confinement yet, we do have it on our roadmap... priorities I guess ;-)
[08:30] <Chipaca> i know, but you're just making harder for yourselves :)
[08:30] <Chipaca> anyway, thanks, that's exactly the problem
[08:30] <Chipaca> i'll nuke that and start afresh \o/
[08:31] <Chipaca> stickupkid: thanks!
[08:32] <wallyworld> stickupkid: juju unregister
[08:32] <wallyworld> will get rid of an orphaned controller entry
[08:32] <wallyworld> no direct editing of controllers.yaml needed
[08:32] <stickupkid> wallyworld, haha, knew there was another command
[08:33] <Chipaca> FWIW the jq pipeline didn't work so I went for removing ~/.local/share/juju
[08:33] <Chipaca> Unable to open API: open connection timed out
[08:33] <Chipaca> WARNING unknown config field "lxd-snap-channel"
[08:33] <Chipaca> ERROR getting controller environ: getting environ using bootstrap config from client store: Get https://<IP_ADDRESS>:8443/1.0: Unable to connect to: <IP_ADDRESS>:8443
[08:33] <Chipaca> ~
[08:34] <stickupkid> achilleasa, this is new --> WARNING unknown config field "lxd-snap-channel" - when trying to remove a controller
[08:44] <achilleasa> stickupkid: that's a side-effect of how we access these settings in the workers. TLDR: we pop them off the map when accessed and complain about remaining entries. We do that here (https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/worker/provisioner/container_initialisation.go#L207) for this field but this (https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/container/lxd/manager.go#L78) doesn't hence the warning.
[08:45] <achilleasa> we could add a dummy pop in the latter file to silence the warning but I didn't add it as part of my commit because it looked weird. We can do that as a drive-by fix in any future PR
[08:59] <stickupkid> manadart, ping
[09:00] <manadart> stickupkid: Pong; just starting a call.
[09:00] <stickupkid> manadart, ping when you're free
[10:38] <manadart> stickupkid: I'm in Daily.
[12:38] <Eryn_1983_FL> hey guys
[12:38] <achilleasa> manadart: what is the current status on spaces and manual machines?
[12:38] <Eryn_1983_FL> whats the default username/password for maas and juju?
[12:38] <Eryn_1983_FL> for ssh
[12:38] <Eryn_1983_FL> im locked out atm
[12:40] <manadart> achilleasa: Currently unsupported; on the this cycle of work to enable. It just requires population of subnets from the machine NICs.
[12:51] <Eryn_1983_FL> manadart:  if i got into rescue mode can i get to a console?
[12:54] <manadart> Eryn_1983_FL: There's no default. Juju sets up it's own key in authorized_keys, which allows `juju ssh <machine-id>`.
[12:55] <Eryn_1983_FL> i dont has ssh to juju
[12:55] <manadart> Or `juju ssh <unit>` for that matter.
[12:56] <manadart> Eryn_1983_FL: You have no client connectivity to your Juju controller?
[12:56] <Eryn_1983_FL> i got the web gui
[12:59] <Eryn_1983_FL> just dont understand why my keys are not working
[13:29] <Eryn_1983_FL> time to reinstall again
[13:35] <achilleasa> quick CR https://github.com/juju/utils/pull/312 anyone? needed to fix the broken tests on develop
[14:35] <stickupkid> manadart, https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1882097
[14:35] <mup> Bug #1882097: Needless brute forcing with finding AZ in space topology in the provisioner task <juju:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1882097>
[14:40] <manadart> stickupkid: výborne
[15:25] <achilleasa> Can someone review and run the "straightforward" QA steps for https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11670?
[15:44] <stickupkid> achilleasa, I'm stealling your PR for now (sorry for the noise)
[15:47] <achilleasa> no worries. I want to force-push a fix for one of the tests. Let me know when you need a new !!build!! in there ;-)
[15:51] <stickupkid> achilleasa, do it when ever I'm breaking stuff atm
[19:16] <pmatulis> has something changed in 2.8 that may affect deploying bundles? seems slower going through all bundle lines
[19:20] <pmatulis> really slower
[21:18] <thumper> pmatulis: yes, the multiwatcher code was refactored, and it does slightly more now
[21:18] <thumper> pmatulis: I'm currently looking into it to see what can be done
[21:19] <thumper> this is the basis of a watcher that bundle deploys use
[22:44] <pmatulis> thumper, ok thanks. what else does it do? more validation?
[23:00] <thumper> pmatulis: there shouldn't be a measurable difference between 2.7 and 2.8. If there is, we need to work out why
[23:00] <thumper> pmatulis: if you were able to show how different it is, that would be very helpful
[23:00] <thumper> https://github.com/juju/collections/pull/4
[23:08] <pmatulis> thumper, ok, will do


[04:40]  * Kilos greets from ZA
[06:18] <Rajendra> hi
[06:22] <Rajendra> hi
[06:23] <Kilos> hi Rajendra
[07:25] <Rajendra> hello
[07:26] <Rajendra> can you help me
[07:27] <Kilos> where are you Rajendra
[07:28] <Kilos> havent you got a local loco there, otherwise #ubuntu is the help channel
[07:29] <Rajendra> hi
[07:29] <Kilos> hi
[07:30] <Rajendra> i have a problem
[07:30] <Kilos> explain what the prob is
[17:37] <Kilos> evening all
[17:37] <Kilos> hi TaeheeJang  have you succeeded
[19:16] <PabloRubianes> mhall119: ping


[17:50] <kiko> a hoy
[19:00] <Rinchen> #startmeeting
[19:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:02. The chair is Rinchen.
[19:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:00] <Rinchen> wootbot
[19:00] <Rinchen> Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating Launchpad development.
[19:00] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Roll Call
[19:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
[19:00] <Rinchen> me
[19:00] <mrevell> me
[19:00] <bigjools> me
[19:00] <jtv> me
[19:00] <abentley> me
[19:00] <leonardr> me
[19:00] <bac> me
[19:01] <intellectronica> me
[19:01] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[19:01] <sinzui> me
[19:01] <barry> me
[19:01] <al-maisan> me
[19:01] <schwuk> me
[19:01] <gmb> me
[19:01] <thumper> me
[19:01] <adeuring> me
[19:01] <kiko> me
[19:01] <mpt> me
[19:01] <salgado> me
[19:01] <kiko> cprov sends apologies but had to dash!
[19:01] <flacoste> me
[19:01] <Rinchen> matsubara?
[19:01] <BjornT> me
[19:01] <matsubara> me
[19:01] <kiko> thanks jtv for being with us
[19:01] <thumper> rockstar?
[19:01] <rockstar> ,e
[19:01] <Rinchen> releases team is here
[19:01] <rockstar> er, me
[19:02] <bigjools> cprov sends his apologies, I am covering for him
[19:02] <stub> me
[19:03] <kiko> stub!
[19:03] <Rinchen> herb, mthaddon ?
[19:03] <kiko> good to have you here
[19:03] <herb> me
[19:03] <mthaddon> here
[19:03] <Rinchen> statik, ?
[19:03] <Rinchen> hmm
[19:03] <Rinchen> well, we're missing a few people
[19:03] <Rinchen> but i'll move fwd
[19:04] <mrevell> Rinchen: I believe statik is travelling today
[19:04] <Rinchen> thanks
[19:04] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Agenda
[19:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
[19:04] <Rinchen>  * Next meeting
[19:04] <Rinchen>  * Actions from last meeting
[19:04] <Rinchen>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[19:04] <Rinchen>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[19:04] <Rinchen>  * Bug tags
[19:04] <Rinchen>  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb)
[19:04] <Rinchen>  * DBA report (stub)
[19:04] <Rinchen>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[19:04] <Rinchen>  * New packages required (salgado)
[19:04] <Rinchen>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[19:04] <Rinchen>  * Doc Team report (mrevell)
[19:04] <Rinchen> plsu
[19:04] <Rinchen> er
[19:04] <Rinchen> plus
[19:04] <Rinchen>     *
[19:04] <Rinchen>       Policies for launchpad dependency packages (kiko)
[19:04] <Rinchen>     *
[19:04] <Rinchen>       Storm and Hardy Updates (kiko)
[19:04] <Rinchen>     *
[19:04] <Rinchen>       iframe on every LP page (kiko)
[19:04] <Rinchen> hmpf
[19:04] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Next meeting
[19:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
[19:05] <Rinchen> I won't be here next week
[19:05] <BjornT> i won't be here next week
[19:05] <Rinchen> kiko, can you run the the meeting?
[19:05] <kiko> yes
[19:05] <kiko> I can
[19:05] <kiko> I am good at such things
[19:05] <Rinchen> very well
[19:05] <kiko> (making messes out of meetings)
[19:05] <Rinchen> ok, same time same place?
[19:05] <abentley> kiko: he said "run", not "ruin" :-)
[19:06] <Rinchen> [AGREED] meeting next week, same place, same time, Kiko to rui...er...run the meeting. :-)
[19:06] <MootBot> AGREED received:  meeting next week, same place, same time, Kiko to rui...er...run the meeting. :-)
[19:06]  * kiko scratches eyes
[19:06] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Actions from last meeting
[19:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from last meeting
[19:06] <kiko> so he did, maybe that wasn't such a great id..
[19:06] <Rinchen> we had none
[19:06] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Oops report (Matsubara)
[19:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Oops report (Matsubara)
[19:07] <matsubara> today's oops report is about bug 239519
[19:07] <matsubara> thumper: can you take that one?
[19:08] <thumper> I'll allocate it, yes
[19:08] <matsubara> there's another OOPS which I'm checking but haven't filed a bug yet. https://devpad.canonical.com/~matsubara/oops.cgi/2008-06-11/EC36
[19:08] <matsubara> salgado: I think that oops is for you :-)
[19:08] <matsubara> it's an AssertionError in peoplemerge
[19:08] <Rinchen> [AGREED] Thumper to allocate someone to look at bug 239519
[19:08] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Thumper to allocate someone to look at bug 239519
[19:08] <salgado> matsubara, I'll have a look
[19:09] <matsubara> thanks, we can coordinate about it after the meeting.
[19:09] <matsubara> Rinchen: that's it from me. thanks
[19:09] <Rinchen> [AGREED] salgado to look at a particular oops :-)
[19:09] <MootBot> AGREED received:  salgado to look at a particular oops :-)
[19:09] <kiko> matsubara, I think it only occurs when I fuck it up, but it should be very easy to fix
[19:09] <Rinchen> thanks matsubara
[19:09] <matsubara> thanks everyone
[19:09] <kiko> oh, no
[19:09] <kiko> it's not
[19:09] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[19:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[19:09] <Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/234254
[19:09] <Rinchen> cprov, what's the status with this one? This appears to me to either be fixed committed or high, but no longer critical.
[19:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/234254
[19:10] <bigjools> Rinchen: it's a config change
[19:10] <bigjools> I think cprov did a branch for it, I don't know if it's in PQM or landed yet
[19:10] <Rinchen> there is one branch from a while ago documented but history shows that you've raised it in priority since then
[19:11] <Rinchen> I haven't seen any recent activity, hence my questioning.
[19:11] <bigjools> it's config for the restricted librarian
[19:11] <kiko> bigjools, can you check and update the bug accordingly, please?
[19:11] <bigjools> yup
[19:11] <kiko> bigjools, no bugs should be left critical
[19:11] <kiko> NONE
[19:11]  * kiko blows the cavalier trumpet
[19:11] <bigjools> AFAIK cprov is actively working on it
[19:11] <bigjools> so don't panic!
[19:11] <Rinchen> [ACTION] Julian to review and update bug 234254
[19:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Julian to review and update bug 234254
[19:11] <Rinchen> thanks jules
[19:12] <kiko> bigjools, it's not cprov's responsibility. it's the team's. it's a critical bug.
[19:12] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Bug tags
[19:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug tags
[19:12] <Rinchen> we have one
[19:12] <kiko> i.e. if you don't know about it, something's wrong
[19:12] <Rinchen> https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs
[19:12] <kiko> a bug tag, my favorite
[19:12] <bigjools> I do know about it
[19:12] <Rinchen> package-diff  - cprov
[19:13] <Rinchen> bigjools, do you have anything to say on the bug tag on behalf of cprov-out?
[19:13] <adeuring> f
[19:14] <Rinchen> I'm ok with it if it helps your team out.
[19:14] <bigjools> Well he mentioned it to me before dashing off earlier, I know as much as you just pasted - I guess it's for bugs relating to the new package diff calculations, since there seem to be a few
[19:14] <bigjools> (BTW the fix for 234254 is #2 in PQM's queue)
[19:14] <Rinchen> we can approve it, reject it, or postpone it.   kiko, you have any thoughts?
[19:15] <Rinchen> al-maisan, any thoughts from you?
[19:15] <kiko> let me check.
[19:15] <bigjools> I would be happy with it
[19:15] <kiko> sure, I think that's fine
[19:15] <al-maisa1> Rinchen: sorry my connection dropped
[19:15] <al-maisa1> missed the question
[19:15] <Rinchen> al-maisa1, package-diff bug tag proposed by cprov
[19:16] <al-maisa1> fine with me
[19:16] <kiko> yeah, it makes sense to me
[19:16] <Rinchen> ok, so carried.
[19:16] <Rinchen> [AGREED] Package-diff tag approved.
[19:16] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Package-diff tag approved.
[19:16] <Rinchen> bigjools, can you get cprov-out to update that page again please and move the tag to approved?
[19:16] <bigjools> wilco
[19:16] <Rinchen> thank you sir
[19:16] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon/herb)
[19:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Operations report (mthaddon/herb)
[19:17] <herb> Monday (2008-06-09) lpnet1 & lpnet2 had died around midnight.  Was caught by the SAs and they restarted.
[19:17] <herb> Monday (2008-06-09) lpnet4 died with logrotate. It was manually restarted.
[19:17] <herb> There are currently 2 CP requests awaiting approval. (r6410 & r6451)
[19:17] <herb> We're about mid-way through the hardy upgrades. The app servers are going today
[19:17] <herb> as we speak.
[19:17] <herb> Thanks to an update today edge is now using storm.
[19:17] <herb> The new codeimport system seems to be working well, but it hits the DB pretty ha
[19:17] <herb> rd. It doesn't seem there is any connection pooling of any kind which can result in 50+ open db connections.
[19:17] <herb> I failed to update Bug 224623 last week with the debug logs as promised.  Look f
[19:17] <herb> or them before the end of my day today.
[19:18] <Rinchen> thumper, any activities on the radar to address the db connections?
[19:18] <kiko> okay.
[19:18] <kiko> thumper, yeah, was going to ask that
[19:18] <thumper> hmm
[19:18] <herb> we haven't opened a bug on it yet.  just started noticing it recently.
[19:19] <herb> we can get a bug opened on it today if you'd like.
[19:19] <flacoste> herb: any idea why the app server died?
[19:19] <thumper> I'll talk with mwhudson_ about it this morning
[19:19] <stub> Is this one connection per process or thread, or just the usual open-and-close connections really fast? If the latter, Storm could fix that.
[19:19] <herb> flacoste: sadly no.
[19:19] <Rinchen> herb, if you could please, open a bug and let thumper and mwh know the number. Please include any data/output you have in the report.
[19:19] <herb> Rinchen: will do.
[19:20] <matsubara> ls
[19:20] <kiko> stub, hmm, I think it's the latter, tbh
[19:20] <kiko> thumper, do you know?
[19:20] <thumper> there are up to 10 processes running at once on each import machine
[19:20] <thumper> we only have two slaves
[19:21] <thumper> so I'd expect to see around 20 not 50
[19:21] <kiko> right
[19:21] <kiko> okay -- we'll figure it out with mwh the import code master
[19:21] <Rinchen> perhaps it is just an optimization issue....unused connections being closed later than expected.
[19:21] <herb> thumper: keep on eye out for the bug a bit later today.
[19:21] <Rinchen> any other questions for herb and mthaddon ?
[19:22] <stub> Previously, the zopeless commit would close and reopen a new connection. This behavior has (hopefully) been sorted as a side effect of the storm branch landing.
[19:22] <Rinchen> should be interesting to see what effect that has
[19:22] <Rinchen> thanks herb
[19:22] <herb> thanks
[19:23] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] DBA report (stub)
[19:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  DBA report (stub)
[19:23] <stub> This close and reopening is often done so fast you have 2 or 3 times as many clients on the db as necessary as they are being opened faster than PG can clean them up.
[19:23] <stub> Production DB will be upgraded to PostgreSQL 8.3 on Tuesday during the Hardy upgrade window.
[19:23] <stub> The rest of the DB reviews for this cycle will be done tomorrow and the db freeze lifted if edge is in good shape with todays branch. I might delay opening until Monday or Tuesday if there are urgent fixes that need landing on edge and kiko agrees. With luck, the freeze will be lifted by landing the auth-person-split branch.
[19:23] <stub> PQM has been running PG 8.3 for two days apparantly. I haven't confirmed this with my own eyes yet though as I just noticed the RT request followup :-) Thanks to Lamont and Tom.
[19:23] <stub> The databases on carbon (staging, demo) should be switched to 8.3 ASAP - I'll look at this if the losas don't beat me to it. The upgrade will also switch the DB to the correct locale (currently running default, should be C locale to match production).
[19:23] <stub> Nothing else to report.
[19:24] <kiko> stub, I had expected staging and demo to be running 8.3 already tbh
[19:24] <Rinchen> yay for auth-person-split
[19:24] <kiko> stub, will you do this before the weekend?
[19:24] <mars> me! phooey.
[19:25] <stub> Yes. staging and demo where to be done after PQM. The downtime window approached more rapidly than expected.
[19:25] <kiko> stub, I am kinda hoping everything will fall into place tomorrow -- the only thing I can imagine will help us on edge is fixing mars' favorite iframe and possibly a storm optimo, but it's OOPSes that might tell me otherwise
[19:25] <kiko> stub, yeah, we got things in gear now :)
[19:25] <stub> Yup
[19:25] <flacoste> mars' favorite iframe?
[19:25] <Rinchen> agenda item
[19:25] <Rinchen> anything else for Stu?
[19:26] <stub> beer!
[19:26] <Rinchen> and thai food, yes I read the lodging request :-)
[19:26] <Rinchen> thanks stub
[19:26] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[19:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[19:26] <kiko> fun
[19:26] <Rinchen> Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent?
[19:26] <stub> RT #30960 needs action Monday at the latest so I can confirm the PG upgrade will go smoothly.
[19:26]  * flacoste pokes barry
[19:26] <kiko> none from me, IS have nuked all of mine so quickly
[19:26] <bigjools> cprov asked me to mention 30778
[19:26] <barry> flacoste, Rinchen we are no longer blocked
[19:27] <flacoste> cool!
[19:27] <bigjools> which is the Gina machine
[19:27] <barry> well, my branch won't land for another 11 hours, but the rt was marked resolved :)
[19:27] <Rinchen> ok thanks. I'll have a look at them after the meeting, set dates and priorities, and ping the cuddly red fellow
[19:28] <Rinchen> a little deviation here for a moment
[19:28] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Policies for launchpad dependency packages (kiko)
[19:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Policies for launchpad dependency packages (kiko)
[19:28] <kiko> aha!
[19:28] <kiko> so today we had a bit of a revelation when we figured out that our dependencies packages aren't being directly used on the appservers
[19:28] <kiko> they are being used as references, but not literally
[19:29] <kiko> I had a call with james today to attempt to sort that out
[19:29] <kiko> turns out that there are some bad things we're doing, so I want salgado to document and follow a policy for package updates
[19:29] <salgado> on the app servers they are used, no?  just chokecherry that was missing them?
[19:29] <kiko> salgado, well, it varies. the PQM chroot, for instance, doesn't use l-d-d
[19:29] <kiko> anyway
[19:30] <kiko> let me cover the specifics, and then the policy
[19:30] <kiko> 1. httplib. I understand we're using a version that isn't in intrepid yet. is there a bug open for this being packaged in Ubuntu intrepid and backported to hardy?
[19:30] <kiko> (that's for barry and flacoste)
[19:30] <barry> kiko: not that i know of
[19:31] <kiko> barry, okay. there should be. see policy coming up in a sec.
[19:31] <kiko> 2. apache and ssh. both packages are required for l-d-d. they are both daemons and can't really be run inside the PQM chroot.
[19:31] <kiko> so following comes a policy definition
[19:31] <kiko> for our dependencies packages
[19:32] <kiko> 1. it's not okay to depend on daemons. you can recommend a daemon, but not depend on it.
[19:32] <kiko> 2. if you require a version which isn't available in the current ubuntu release we're running, then it's okay to use a custom package /as long as/ there is a request to package that version in Ubuntu, and that bug is escalated to the distro team
[19:33] <kiko> that's all. I guess this needs to go into a document, but I'll let Rinchen sort that out with salgado!
[19:33]  * barry will open a bug for httplib2
[19:33] <salgado> AFAIK, we need apache to run launchpad
[19:34] <salgado> not to run, but to access it
[19:34] <kiko> salgado, PQM doesn't have it, so no, we don't really.
[19:34] <salgado> most package managers don't do anything with recommends, so that may cause developers to have to manually install it
[19:34] <kiko> salgado, it's okay to have l-d-d recommend apachd
[19:35] <salgado> kiko, I meant for a user to access.  tests are something else
[19:35] <kiko> salgado, I actually think apt follows recommends.
[19:36] <Rinchen> in any event, I could modify the newlaunchpadder docs to ensure folks install recommends
[19:36] <flacoste> it's usually a config policy
[19:36] <stub> It doesn't really matter if RocketFuel setup documents an extra command - it isn't like anyone follows that process every day.
[19:36] <thumper> aptitude does
[19:36] <salgado> and I don't know what update-manager does with Recommends
[19:36] <abentley> Wouldn't it be okay to require apache for launchpad-developer-dependencies, but not launchpad-dependencies?
[19:36] <Rinchen> good point
[19:36] <salgado> that's what we do currently
[19:37] <salgado> maybe we should have launchpad-tests-dependencies
[19:37] <kiko> abentley, no.
[19:37] <salgado> and launchpad-developer-dependencies
[19:37] <abentley> shouldn't PQM et al be using plain launchpad-dependencies?
[19:37] <kiko> salgado, it's unnecessary. recommends works.
[19:37] <salgado> then PQM would only have lp-tests-deps installed
[19:38] <Rinchen> launchpad-dependences today recommends launchpad-developer-dependencies
[19:38] <kiko> and that's fine
[19:38] <kiko> as I said, recommends works
[19:38] <kiko> can we move on, Rinchen?
[19:38] <salgado> abentley, PQM needs the dev deps in order to run the testsuite
[19:39] <Rinchen> kiko, yes if you are done.  Salgado, can you get with kiko if you have further questions?
[19:39] <abentley> salgado: Okay.  I can see the argument that we don't want too many metapackages.
[19:39] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] New packages required (salgado)
[19:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  New packages required (salgado)
[19:39] <salgado> any new dependencies for this week?
[19:40] <Rinchen> [ACTION] Joey to ping Salgado about documenting package dependency policy
[19:40] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Joey to ping Salgado about documenting package dependency policy
[19:40] <kiko> sounds like no :)
[19:40] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[19:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[19:41] <mrevell> Hello. Three things today.
[19:41] <mrevell> First up: quick reminder that we'll have service interruptions on 17th, 18th and 19th June. You can find out more in our blog post at: http://news.launchpad.net/notifications/launchpad-service-interruptions-17th-18th-and-19th-june
[19:41] <mrevell> Second: Kiko's going to talk about this later, but here's a quick note to any non-team members present: you may spot an empty box at the bottom of pages on edge. We're aware of this, so please don't worry about filing a bug.
[19:41] <mrevell> And the main issue this week: matsubara mentioned that intellectronica is currently helping one of our users who is experiencing problems with the email interface.
[19:41] <mrevell> This person, Iain, is sending GPG-signed messages for both the bug tracker and Answers, but getting no response. So far, one other person has reported the same problem.
[19:41] <mrevell> You can see the question at: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/35165
[19:41] <mrevell> I think intellectronica would welcome a discussion of what could be causing this.
[19:41] <mrevell> Thanks Rinchen.
[19:42] <Rinchen> Anything for mrevell or intellectronica?
[19:42] <intellectronica> to add more information to that - the user doesn't seem to be able to get even as far as requesting help via the email interface
[19:42] <barry> intellectronica: let me know if there's anything i can help with
[19:42] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Doc Team report (mrevell)
[19:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  Doc Team report (mrevell)
[19:42] <kiko> mrevell, matsubara, intellectronica: I have confirmation from IS that the message hits us
[19:43] <kiko> who should I forward that information to?
[19:43] <intellectronica> kiko: me
[19:43] <mrevell> Cool, thanks guys.
[19:43] <mrevell> A busy week for me working on user guide material, and primarily further tweaks to the tour, following Mark's feedback. I'd like to arrange a call with each team lead to go through the relevant section of the tour content with you. Please ping me with suitable times.
[19:43] <mrevell> No news from the doc team this week.
[19:43] <mrevell> Thanks Rinchen.
[19:43] <intellectronica> there's a question. maybe this is the time to convert it to a bug
[19:44] <Rinchen> sounds good to me :-)
[19:44] <flacoste> intellectronica: i would look into signed_message_from_string failing
[19:44] <flacoste> intellectronica: look at the log, you should be able to find the email failing
[19:44] <kiko> intellectronica, will do. thanks!
[19:44] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Storm and Hardy Updates (kiko)
[19:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Storm and Hardy Updates (kiko)
[19:44] <kiko> aha
[19:45] <kiko> I am the bearer of great tidings
[19:45] <kiko> staging and our edge server are nor updated to latest Storm
[19:45] <kiko> err
[19:45] <kiko> now updated
[19:45] <kiko> we are aware of some performance regressions that this will impact
[19:46] <kiko> for instance, BjornT has seen the number of queries on certain bug pages going up surprisingly
[19:46] <kiko> we also know that PQM took a 15 minute hit
[19:46] <kiko> this is somewhat expected and we'll be working on fixing it as we progress
[19:46] <kiko> there's also an OOPS on the wild that mthaddon has triggered, which is something we're going to investigate further
[19:47] <kiko> ZStormError: Store named 'main' already exists
[19:47] <kiko> is what the OOPS says
[19:47] <kiko> aaaanyway. help us through the rough waters by offering help and objective issue reports. general whining is not ok.
[19:48] <kiko> last item of news is hardy upgrades -- you guys know this is happening next week, along with pg8.3 coming on tuesday thanks to stub and the losas
[19:48] <kiko> so keep your eyes peeled for any issues that come during this period, and let us know
[19:48] <kiko> thanks and sorry for running overtime -- it's always like that when you let me do the talking...
[19:48] <Rinchen> and for the final topic...
[19:48] <Rinchen> iframe on every LP page (kiko)
[19:48] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] iframe on every LP page (kiko)
[19:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  iframe on every LP page (kiko)
[19:48] <kiko> why is this me?
[19:48] <kiko> anyway.
[19:49] <kiko> edge has an iframe being rendered on every single page.
[19:49] <kiko> it's a CSS mistake, I believe -- invisible isn't actually causing invisibility.
[19:49] <flacoste> should be display: none
[19:49] <intellectronica> fyi, it also has a javascript error on all pages. it's part of the same bug
[19:49] <mars> kiko, working on it now
[19:49] <kiko> it's a critical problem, and as soon as we have a branch (tests for it will be.. interesting) we should push this right up to the front of the PQM queue.
[19:49] <sinzui> Invisible != none
[19:50] <kiko> mthaddon, herb: can you work with mars and intellectronica to ensure that happens? will owe you a tall glass 'a beer
[19:50] <sinzui> I thought the intent *was* to have it load everytime, so invisible was used.
[19:50] <herb> kiko: not a problem
[19:50] <kiko> I know the beer's not a problem. I meant the PQM reorder. :)
[19:50] <mpt> It shouldn't be invisible, it should be non-existent until summoned
[19:50] <mthaddon> kiko, sure
[19:50] <Rinchen> like a good familiar
[19:50] <Rinchen> err
[19:51] <Rinchen> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Developer Meeting.
[19:51] <Rinchen> #endmeeting
[19:51] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:53.
[19:51] <thumper> mpt: not existant implies created with JS
[19:51] <abentley> Thanks Rinchen
[19:51] <mpt> thumper, exactly
[19:51] <thumper> Rinchen: thanks
[19:51] <barry> Rinchen: thanks
[19:51] <mrevell> thanks rinchen
[19:51]  * Rinchen attempts to summon the mootbot logs


[00:42] <dscassel> You know, I'm really liking 13.04...
[02:41] <DJJeff> any Vancouver-ites ?
[04:27] <DarwinSurvivor> About an hour out of Vancouver here
[04:55] <DJJeff> sorry not close enough
[04:55] <DJJeff> lol
[04:55] <DJJeff> jk
[04:55] <DJJeff> im Burnaby / New West myself
[04:55] <DJJeff> wtf is Darwin anyways
[05:07] <DarwinSurvivor> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin
[05:24] <DJJeff> good not apple darwin
[06:51] <dscassel> DJJeff: the Vancouver LoCo doesn't go in for online stuff much.  A few drop in from time to time, but you can find them here: http://www.meetup.com/ubuntuvancouver/
[07:06] <DJJeff> thats too bad that they dont
[07:07] <DJJeff> I tried to attend a vancouver loco meetup a while back
[07:19] <DarwinSurvivor> yeah, the vancouver guys tend to do regular face-to-face events instead. I've yet to make it to any unfortunately.
[07:20] <DarwinSurvivor> They do have a fairly active meet-up page where they post all of their events if you are interrested


[17:50] <andrejz> hello kelemengabor! Do you maybe have a template to send to launchpad project owners to change translations permissions from open to restricted anywhere handy?
[17:53] <kelemengabor> andrejz: I don't, maybe David. IIRC he wrote it up in some bug, maybe I can dig it up. Stay tuned :)
[17:53] <andrejz> actually i just found it
[17:53] <andrejz> it's about remina
[17:53] <andrejz> i marked it with a star for future reference
[17:54] <andrejz> translations for remina still have open premissions
[17:56] <andrejz> maybe it would be wise to send a reminder
[18:07] <kelemengabor> sure, remmina deserves better :)
[18:08] <kelemengabor> also, I cannot find that mail :(


[16:31] <chrisccoulson> hi m_conley_away, how are you feeling?
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> m_conley_away, https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/bp-0e092710-dce1-4f62-b356-a05592120127
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> that has symbols for non-mozilla binaries now :)