[00:02]  * hao waiting for wits
[00:03] <hao> !ask | xsj
[00:31] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[00:33] <MacSlow> ups
[01:01] <inscw00table> On 22.04 I'm messing with cloud-init autoinstall config trying to do unattended installs.  early_commands: is too early to alter /target/* contents before installation starts and late_commands: is too late for those changes to affect the installer.  Anyone know any handy way to hook into and run commands after networking is setup and /target is available but before apt-config?
[01:02] <inscw00table> curtain docs seem to say you can control/add other 'stages', but it's not obvious to me if that can be done via autoinstall config too.
[01:03] <sarnold> inscw00table: I think the "The installation environment" paragraph on https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/install/autoinstall  might be the closest you'll find to docs on that area
[01:05]  * inscw00table nods.
[01:11] <inscw00table> I don't even really need anything all that fancy.  At the moment all I'm trying to accomplish is being able to remove /target/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50command-not-found before the apt-get update command so it can workaround pulling from intermittent mirrors that don't have CNF data populated.  It seems that maybe I could use the 'conf:' clause to customize the autoinstall -> apt: section, but I haven't yet come across how to do that either.
[01:16] <sarnold> hmm, killing command-not-found feels like an obvious feature to want..
[01:18] <inscw00table> I was just trying to avoid having to customize an iso just to wipe this file out... I assumed there would be a way.  Though... I guess I probably could hack up an early-command to modify the qubiquity/server/apt.py script that runs: apt-get update to wipe the file out.... :|
[01:19] <sarnold> the tail end of this discussion might have ideas worth stealing https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/please-test-autoinstalls-for-20-04/15250/301
[01:19]  * inscw00table clicks...
[01:21] <sarnold> oh my god I hate this interface so much
[01:31] <MacSlow> bbl
[02:16] <alkisg> I'm trying to see how widespread this issue is: (1) ssh localhost (2) pkexec bash ==> authentication failed
[02:16] <alkisg> I think it affects all ubuntu flavors in the last 4+ years, can someone verify it and mention their setup, e.g. it affects me on "ubuntu mate 22.04 amd64"
[02:16] <alkisg> Upstream bug report: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/polkit/polkit/-/issues/17
[02:16] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Issue 17 in polkit/polkit "pkexec fails with 'GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1.Error.Failed: No session for cookie'" [Opened]
[02:26] <bparker> alkisg: even without the ssh it fails for me on 22.04
[02:26] <alkisg> bparker: eeh, a plain `pkexec bash` fails while you're inside a graphical environment? That doesn't sound right...
[02:27] <alkisg> It should fail on console, but not inside graphical sessions
[02:27] <bparker> oh you didn't say graphical
[02:27] <alkisg> OK the ssh is there just to avoid the graphical agent from popping up
[02:28] <alkisg> Anything non-graphical should have the issue; are you connecting on e.g. vt2?
[02:28] <bparker> I'm just ssh'd in normally, one time
[02:28] <bparker> from another device
[02:28] <bparker> not linux
[02:28] <alkisg> OK, thank you for verifying; is that running gnome in the background? (it affects the running polkit agent)
[02:28] <bparker> yea
[02:29] <alkisg> Thanks!
[02:29] <bparker> np
[02:39] <sarah> hi
[02:43] <pconst167> hi
[02:43] <pconst167> Sarah
[05:00] <_jak> anyone around to help me debug a udev rule? I think I've mostly got it but I'm stalled at the finish line
[05:00] <_jak> here's the situation: I have a keyboard that is connected to a monitor that is connected to a kvm switch, and what I want is for this rule to be run every time the keyboard is connected
[05:00] <_jak> This is the rule: https://termbin.com/z3lc
[05:00] <_jak> and here is the output of `udevadm test --action="add"  $PATH_TO_KEYBOARD`: https://termbin.com/sikn
[05:00] <_jak> it seems like the rule is being run for the action "add" but I'm not sure this is the right event to be listening for, as the rule doesn't run when the keyboard gets reconnected. Anybody see what's wrong off the top of their mind?
[05:01] <_jak> thx in advance for any help
[05:22] <jarif> how to install internet explorer in ubuntu
[07:08] <alkisg> jarif: internet explorer has been deprecated in windows for years, why would you need it in ubuntu now...
[08:39] <elias_a> alkisg: Οι άνθρωποι έχουν όλων των ειδών τις διαστροφές.
[08:40] <alkisg> elias_a: hehe
[08:50] <alkisg> elias_a: I'm on matrix, it seems that PMs from irc to matrix have issues, I got notified about a PM but never actually received it...
[08:50] <elias_a> alkisg: Ok.   It's not a problem with the display & turning on/off "Personal Folder" in settings has not effect: https://sam.nl.tab.digital/s/doTk2Y6LGLnAtst
[09:29] <Diagon> Probably relevant that it doesn't show up in a screenshot: https://sam.nl.tab.digital/s/PWf2Ddr6BPRegLp
[09:30] <alkisg> Diagon: does it show up if you press ctrl+alt+f2 or if you go to BIOS?
[10:01] <realivanjx> my ubuntu scrolls a bit faster after recent updates. anyone else notices this?
[10:04] <profesor7> Pc2017
[10:35] <Diagon> alkisg / When logged in, my laptop screen is off & I'm using an external (AOC). Both C-A-F1/F2 leave me @gnome. C-A-F3 freezes the AOC & gives me a terminal prompt on my laptop screen.  So it doesn't look like useful information.
[10:36] <Diagon> My BIOS is not allowing me to use the AOC as the screen for post.  (Thinkpad W530.)
[10:36] <Diagon> But on my desktop, running 22.04, the blue rectangle doesn't appear.
[10:37] <Chunkyz> Morning all ❤🥰
[10:37] <alkisg> Diagon: well, just switch on the internal screen so that you can see if it's a software or hardware issue
[10:37] <Diagon> Ya, the internal screen has no such rectangle.
[10:37] <alkisg> Diagon:  If it doesn't appear in the internal screen, then it's a hardware issue, not related to the operating system (e.g. a broken monitor settings popup)
[10:38] <Diagon> Ah.
[10:38] <alkisg> I.e. ask in #hardware, not in #ubuntu:matrix.org
[10:38] <Diagon> Ok.  Confusing as it doesn't appear when it's connected to the desktop ...
[10:39] <Diagon> alkisg / ok, thanks for your time.
[10:39] <alkisg> Diagon: if you want to be really really sure, you can also boot a live cd, even a windows installation cd
[10:39] <Diagon> alkisg / good idea.  I've got Bob's OMB right here!  :)
[10:40] <Diagon> I'll try it out, thanks.  I'll try back if it's not hardware ...
[10:48] <alkisg> Diagon: another idea, some monitors warn about incorrect resolutions. If the native resolution is 1920, your desktop sends 1920, and your laptop sends 1680, then the popup would appear only from the laptop
[10:49] <alkisg> Diagon: in THAT case, if you can send the same resolution from your laptop, you'd solve this hardware issue with a software workaround
[11:15] <xatrix> Hi, can you advice me ? Why my system provides such an errors in a dmesg/logs ? I mean video driver errors, radeon. https://pastebin.com/4zK75gMW
[11:15] <xatrix> I still can't fire up my discrete graphics
[11:23] <xatrix> Please advice!
[11:30] <tomreyn> i recommend upgrading the hardware
[11:37] <MacSlow> Greetings everyone!
[11:41] <xatrix> tomreyn: yea, but is it possible to stay on this laptop ? I can't right now :(
[11:41] <xatrix> No backward compatibility ?
[11:47] <tomreyn> xatrix: i believe we discussed this before, didn't we? AMD GCN1 is not well supported unfortunately.
[11:47] <tomreyn> especially hainan
[11:48] <xatrix> :( damn. yea we did. I still believe it's possible to solve somehow :(
[11:48] <hermano> Interesting when connecting the 'apple trackpad 2' to ubuntu 22.04, if looking into 'power' is do see the trackpad indicating charging, but do not see it being found in bluetooth.
[11:52] <hermano> I tried another 'apple trackpad' into my laptop, and the laptop finds that trackpad, hm.
[12:06] <JexLamer> Hello everyone! Completely new here. First time using IRC since... the early 00s? xD
[12:07] <tomreyn> wb JexLamer. we use this very channel for support only, but there are numerous others, see...
[12:07] <tomreyn> !alis
[12:08] <JexLamer> I have a sound issue with Ubuntu. Basically I am currently running a Triple Boot (Windows 10, Ubuntu and Kali). Installed both distros yesterday and everything seems to work just fine except I can't get any sound on Ubuntu. I have already checked several resources before coming in here yet nothing seems to be doing the trick. I can see in SOUND control that the right OUTPUT DEVICE is selected
[12:08] <JexLamer> and I can even see the levels moving whenever I play anything but still... no sound
[12:09] <JexLamer> oh, obviously also double checked for anything muted but no, I dont think the levels would be showing as active anyway
[12:12] <MacSlow> JexLamer, for that it's worth... I sometimes run into a similar issue... that happens when I mess a bit to much with pavucontrol... going to the configuration and output tab and "trying out" all possible devies fixes it.
[12:13] <MacSlow> JexLamer, headphones are selected as output... but one expects the regular speakers to be the actual output device.
[12:15] <JexLamer> thanks @MacSlow I'll give that a try and fiddle around with it, thanks
[12:15] <JexLamer> I never got the sound to work, as I say, I just installed it yesterday
[12:15] <JexLamer> will let you know if it worked! Thanks!
[12:16] <MacSlow> JexLamer, good luck
[12:32] <hermano> Got the "apple trackpad 2" to work on ubuntu 22.04 through bluetooth. Seems its a bit sensitive to low battery even if the lowest I had was 63%.
[12:34] <hermano> JexLamer, Throw out multi boot, add one of the linux flavour as physical installation on drive, run the other linux and windows as virtual machines through KVD/QEMU.
[12:44] <tarel2> I'm running 22.04 I think is there way to make a background picture "wallpaper" fit your screen ?
[12:46] <ravage> tarel2: https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-install-tweak-tool-on-ubuntu-22-04-lts-jammy-jellyfish-linux
[12:49] <tarel2> Thanks ravage, I thought maybe but I did not know if maybe I was just missing a setting
[13:02] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:55] <JustCurious> Hello, is it possible to run Sigil 0.9.9 on Ubuntu 20.04 ?
[14:56] <JustCurious> I did use this program on 18.04 but after upgradeing to 20.04, Sigil also upgrade to 1.1
[14:56] <JustCurious> *upgraded
[14:57] <JustCurious> automatically
[14:57] <ravage> you would have to compile that yourself
[14:57] <ravage> and the current stable is 1.9.20
[14:57] <ravage> so maybe it is time to use a newer version anyway?
[14:58] <leftyfb> JustCurious: why? What's wrong with 1.1?
[14:59] <JustCurious> the version 0.9 is the last having a feature I like so much that I don't want to upgrade
[14:59] <JustCurious> *the last one
[15:00] <JustCurious> "book view"
[15:01] <JustCurious> I have my reasons
[15:01] <JustCurious> so the only way is "compiling" myself ?
[15:01] <ravage> you can add https://github.com/Sigil-Ebook/PageEdit/releases to sigil
[15:01] <ravage> https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3889662
[15:02] <leftyfb> JustCurious: you could install an Ubuntu 18.04 LXD container and run it from that
[15:02] <JustCurious> PageEdit does not replace Book View
[15:02] <JustCurious> in terms of usability
[15:03] <JustCurious> Ubuntu 18.04 ? in April it's EOL
[15:03] <leftyfb> yep
[15:03] <ravage> i thonk you were given some options now
[15:03] <leftyfb> just like the version of Sigil you're trying to run
[15:03] <ravage> choose the one you like
[15:03] <ravage> *think
[15:05] <ravage> at least it was amusing to see someone complaining that Ubuntu uses too new software on it's archives.
[15:06] <JustCurious> shame, I am talking to several partners using Sigil 0.8 (they don't want Sigil 1.1 or +) on Windows 10
[15:06] <JustCurious> they can run multiple Sigil versions there
[15:06] <leftyfb> JustCurious: sounds like something you need to take up with the Sigil project
[15:06] <JustCurious> on Windows
[15:07] <JustCurious> nope, it's totally Ubuntu related
[15:07] <JustCurious> Ubuntu 18 becomes EOL in 3 months anyway
[15:08] <leftyfb> JustCurious: nope, you want a feature in a piece of software that no longer exists in that software. Contact the maker of that software to let them know the feature is wanted. Ubuntu can't put that feature back in, neither can Microsoft. Running outdated software is never a good idea
[15:08] <JustCurious> Ubuntu 20 should have the packets to run old versions of Sigil
[15:09] <JustCurious> there are plenty of people running old versions of other applications
[15:10] <leftyfb> JustCurious: You can run almost any software you want on Ubuntu 20. It's just a matter of how much work you're willing to put into it. Ubuntu is going to progress and ship with new versions of software with no expectations to host precompiled versions of previous versions of the software
[15:10] <JustCurious> and yes, this piece of software exists
[15:10] <leftyfb> JustCurious: good luck
[15:10] <leftyfb> Sorry, Ubuntu 20.04. "Ubuntu 20" doesn't exist
[15:11] <JustCurious> I'm not a developer
[15:11] <JustCurious> just a user
[15:11] <leftyfb> JustCurious: you have been given multiple options to run your outdated and unsupported software. Good luck
[15:12] <JustCurious> I did choose Ubuntu because it's easy for non-technical users
[15:13] <JustCurious> ok good luck too
[15:14] <tarel2> is there an ubuntu offtopic?
[15:14] <leftyfb> !ot | tarel2
[15:25] <FKAShinobi> Can docker and virtual box be used at the same time?
[15:26] <tomreyn> probably. have you tried and found it not to work?
[15:28] <FKAShinobi> tomreyn: On windows, yes. I wanted to see if someone could confirm before I went through the effort  on my Ubuntu system and potentially render my VMs useless.
[15:29] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: docker != virtualization
[15:29] <FKAShinobi> leftyfb: I agree, but windows doesn't like the two to play at the same time.
[15:29] <FKAShinobi> for whatever reason
[15:30] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: Ubuntu != Windows
[15:30] <tomreyn> I've not touched docker much, but last time I looked at it, docker was containerization, not using IOMMU CPU isolation features (VT-x/VT-d or AMD equivalents), but virtualbox VMs would.
[15:30] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: docker and VirtualBox will work just fine
[15:30] <tomreyn> on windows, i think docker uses virtualization
[15:30] <leftyfb> tomreyn: exactly. Docker and LXD are namespaces. Everything else is virtualization
[15:30] <FKAShinobi> leftyfb: agreed, but it still may be an issue, so just thought I'd check
[15:31] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: it's not. And even if it were, removing docker would revert
[15:33] <FKAShinobi> leftyfb tomreyn: Great, thank you! All I'm looking to do is sandbox some apps. Is there a better way than docker? I don't think Linux has a "jails" feature like freebsd, but I could be wrong.
[15:34] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: LXD
[15:34] <leftyfb> or just docker
[15:34] <leftyfb> or snaps
[15:35] <tomreyn> FKAShinobi: are we talking server (text/no UI) or graphical UI use?
[15:35] <tomreyn> what kind of apps
[15:36] <tomreyn> docker is usually used for server-like workloads, virtualbox for desktop-like workloads, so it's an uncommon mix to begin with
[15:36] <FKAShinobi> both - code from git hub and other less trust worthy sources. I trust the code in the repos, but other sources not as much.
[15:36] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: I would use LXD
[15:37] <leftyfb> docker isn't meant to be an environment you mess with.
[15:37] <FKAShinobi> I don't need to virutalize hardware, so virtualbox is my last choice.
[15:37] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: LXD != virtualization
[15:37] <leftyfb> it uses namespaces just like docker
[15:38] <FKAShinobi> does it need it's own kernel or does it inherit from the host?
[15:38] <leftyfb> it shares the kernel
[15:39] <FKAShinobi> ok, I read an article yesterday comparing LXC to Docker and I left thinking it didn't virutalize hardware, but did need it's own kernel.
[15:39] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: sudo snap install lxd && sudo lxd init && lxc launch ubuntu:22.04 myfirstcontainer
[15:40] <cbreak> if you want to virtualize stuff, there's KVM (on linux)
[15:40] <cbreak> if you want something more exotic, there's qemu
[15:40] <FKAShinobi> is LXC also available as apt package?
[15:40] <leftyfb> LXD can be used to create and manage VM's with virtualization, but that's not it's primary use by default
[15:40] <bparker> just fyi qemu's hardware acceleration under linux _is_ KVM
[15:41] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: LXD is not available as apt in ubuntu. Only snap. Nothing wrong with snaps
[15:41] <bparker> leftyfb: fake news
[15:41] <bparker> it's a literal backdoor by definition
[15:41] <leftyfb> bparker: lets not
[15:41] <bparker> https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-mint-dumps-ubuntu-snap/
[15:41] <leftyfb> bparker: take it elsewhere
[15:42] <bparker> lol how's that boot taste
[15:42] <leftyfb> tomreyn: mind chiming in here?
[15:42] <bparker> call the wambulance, someone is mad at words on a screen
[15:43] <FKAShinobi> I think snaps are a fair tool. I'm still not sold on them.
[15:43] <cbreak> lxc snap works much better than firefox snap
[15:43] <FKAShinobi> Meaning I'm not sold on them to install all my software
[15:43] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: just give it a try
[15:43] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: sudo snap install lxd && sudo lxd init && lxc launch ubuntu:22.04 myfirstcontainer
[15:44] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: https://ubuntu.com/lxd
[15:44] <FKAShinobi> leftyfb: I will. :) But I do think that apt packages should be offered.
[15:47] <cbreak> bparker: I don't think that's always the case
[15:47] <leftyfb> cbreak: please take it to #ubuntu-offtopic
[15:47] <cbreak> qemu can emulate quite exotic things, like old PPC or 68k
[15:51] <bparker> cbreak: indeed, which does not use any hardware acceleration
[15:59] <tomreyn> bparker: I would say the "backdoor" characterization is a (strong) point of view. bringing up such terms into this support channel has the potential (and, i assume, intent, on your part) of initiating discussion, which would be better had in the more suitable locations.
[16:05] <theorem> I'm having trouble making heads or tails of this library symbol message -- https://nopaste.net/zfGVwLvTYk
[16:06] <theorem> It's clearing telling me that the installed version of libgdk-3 is missing support for wl_proxy_marshal_flags
[16:07] <theorem> the only way I know of resolving this is to recompiled libgdk-3 , but any installation of libgdk-3 have been through libraries, provided by apt.
[16:08] <theorem> since this symbol is missing in the bumdled package, then it means this shared library is useless because it is stealing the namespace for applications that need a shared library with this name, and all the symbols.
[16:09] <theorem> I am noticing too, that a numbe rof snap packages are also bundling this library in their packages, I assume for similar reasons (symbls missing) , which is working against the shared library approach, and wasting hard drive space for any snaps using this library.
[16:11] <theorem> regardless, is anyone familiar with resolving this in a consistent method because it appears that most of X relies on this library being in this location, and at this version (according to apt) but the need of the specific symbol for other shared packages is unclear.
[16:13] <theorem> I think this identifies a problem for apt -- whaen shared libraries are installed, is the package manager symbol-aware ?  if it is symbol aware, then it becomes possible to resolve these type of conflicts and modify LD_LIBRARY_PATH accordingly.  This also identifies a naming conflict problem - and allows apt to force recolution of naming cnflicts when libraries are provided which do not have (all) the
[16:13] <theorem> correct required symbols for a set of binaries.
[16:14] <JustCurious> Hi again
[16:14] <tomreyn> theorem: most of the time you see this message, it means the software you are using was built for / against a different ubuntu release or other linux distribution, and is just not compatible to it.
[16:14] <JustCurious> hello, I am trying to install the package PageEdit on Ubuntu Mate 20.04, but it's not in my repositories why?
[16:14] <tomreyn> theorem: this appears to be the case here.
[16:14] <JustCurious> accordint to https://www.faqforge.com/linux/how-to-install-pageedit-xhtml-editor-on-ubuntu/ it should be available, simply typing sudo apt install pageedi
[16:15] <theorem> tomreyn: got it, that makes sense.  I can go snag an old library and stick it in LD_LIBRARY_PATH
[16:15] <tomreyn> theorem: the right way to solve this is to rebuild the software you are trying to run on a system (with library versions) that is compatible to yours.
[16:16] <theorem> tallbarr: unfortunately, this is nvidia , and it come pre-built.
[16:16] <theorem> tallbarr: I will double check I have snagged the correct version, just in case.
[16:17] <JustCurious> *sudo apt install pageedit
[16:17] <tomreyn> theorem: they could provide the software in a cross-distribution/release version-compatible packaging format such as snap, flatpack, appimage.
[16:17] <tomreyn> that can be a good enough workaround
[16:18] <theorem> tomreyn: yes, hat could be a solve, not sure it's provided that way ...
[16:18] <tomreyn> something to discuss with nvidia then
[16:18] <theorem> tomreyn: I suspct flakpak and snaps are fundamentally solving the problem of the shared libraries and naming conflicts I have outlined .
[16:19] <theorem> I see them as just adding a layer of obfuscation, where apt should really be stepping in and managing it.
[16:20] <theorem> it looks like the gdk(?) team is stomping on the namespace for this library across the OS and making other's life difficult that need parts of the library
[16:20] <tomreyn> theorem: i prefer not having this discussion in this support channel (actually, personally, i prefer not having it at all).
[16:20] <theorem> all good
[16:20] <theorem> will poke at the SDK and see what I can come up with.
[16:21] <theorem> thanks for the insight !
[16:22] <tomreyn> JustCurious: https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=pageedit lists the ubuntu releases this package is available for, from the "universe" apt repository (which is usually enabled by default)
[16:22] <tomreyn> Ubuntu (Mate) 20.04, codenamed "focal", is not listed there
[16:23] <leftyfb> JustCurious: is this a fairly fresh install of ubuntu?
[16:24] <JustCurious> thanks tomreyn
[16:24] <JustCurious> no leftyfb
[16:27] <tomreyn> JustCurious: i don't know this for sure, but there is a chance that Ubuntu Mate 20.04 is no longer supported - make sure you check on this with the Mate team.
[16:27] <tomreyn> (I can't seem to find an EOL notice though)
[16:29] <leftyfb> tomreyn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_MATE   says April 2025
[16:29] <JustCurious> 25
[16:29] <JustCurious> yes
[16:29] <tomreyn> thanks, i found this, but not the source for this statement
[16:29] <JustCurious> but I don't find the package on the repository
[16:31] <leftyfb> JustCurious: PageEdit was not available in Ubuntu until 22.04
[16:31] <tomreyn> JustCurious: i tired to explain this previously: the "pageedit" package is not available for 20.04 ("focal") from default apt repositories. it *may* be available by other means, such as a !PPA, a snap, or the like.
[16:31] <JustCurious> ok thanks
[16:32] <JustCurious> I jsut installed compiling it
[16:32] <JustCurious> https://github.com/Sigil-Ebook/PageEdit
[16:32] <JustCurious> it works
[16:32] <tomreyn> you won't receive updates this way, though.
[16:33] <JustCurious> no prob
[16:33] <JustCurious> I'll wait until 2025
[16:33] <JustCurious> thanks
[16:34] <leftyfb> :/
[16:34] <theorem> lol
[16:36] <theorem> tomreyn: for real on the symbol / shared library problem though - I know it's not a great convo t ohave in a support channel, but where should this discussion be held ?  I suspect it's challenging for a lot of the projects out there
[16:40] <tomreyn> theorem: chances are you are really misunderstanding something that works as designed as being a problem. you could try getting a better understanding on versioned library dependencies + symbol lookups in dynamically vs statically linked builds in a channel discussing linkers, compilers, the very programming language in use, or a cross distribution channel. use !alis to find more channels.
[16:41] <theorem> possibly.
[16:41] <theorem> I was stunned to see the shared library packaged in so many snaps.
[18:00] <PeGaSuS> guys, some help please: https://0bin.xyz/view/5bdf634f
[18:00] <R3dMage> Hi, I was looking for some help
[18:01] <tomreyn> !ask | R3dMage
[18:02] <tomreyn> PeGaSuS: does this still happen when you    sudo apt update
[18:03] <PeGaSuS> tomreyn: yes. same error, basically
[18:03] <tomreyn> PeGaSuS: what prompted you to run    sudo apt install -f
[18:04] <PeGaSuS> I installed steam via `sudo dpkg -i steam_latest.deb` but it complained about some missing 32bits libs. so I ran `sudo apt install -f` and got that error
[18:05] <R3dMage> I installed Ubuntu 22.04 on my MacBookAir4,1. The WiFi connection is very bad. When I go to install or update anything it times out, and web pages also time out often. According to this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookAir4-2 the WiFi was functional in Ubuntu 12.04. Can someone tell me or link me to some good WiFi troubleshooting techniques or tell me if there are some known issues with the hardware?
[18:06] <tomreyn> PeGaSuS: i think the right way to install steam is using the apt package "steam-installer", available from the "multiverse" repository.
[18:07] <PeGaSuS> tomreyn: I've used the flatpak and it works but I still have that error no matter what
[18:08] <tomreyn> PeGaSuS: can you show    dpkg -l steam* | nc termbin.com 9999
[18:09] <PeGaSuS> tomreyn: https://termbin.com/lf45f
[18:09] <Elliria> R3dMage, this Ubuntu wiki page gives some tips and links for troubleshooting WiFi: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessTroubleShootingGuide
[18:10] <tomreyn> R3dMage: most of the time you want to edit, with root permissions, the file /etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/default-wifi-powersave-on.conf and set wifi.powersave = 2
[18:11] <tomreyn> R3dMage: if this doesn't help after a reboot, make sure to undo this change, setting it back to 3.
[18:11] <Jeremy31> R3dMage: >  sudo sed -i 's/wifi.powersave = 3/wifi.powersave = 2/' /etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/default-wifi-powersave-on.conf
[18:12] <tomreyn> PeGaSuS: sudo dpkg -P steam-launcher
[18:13] <tomreyn> PeGaSuS: does this print any errors or warnings?
[18:13] <R3dMage> Thank you for the direction, I'll try it out :)
[18:14] <PeGaSuS> tomreyn: https://0bin.xyz/view/d3694e1f
[18:17] <Menzador> Do I still need to use the Ubuntu Server installation disk to install Ubuntu with a GUI onto a RAID0 disk?
[18:18] <tomreyn> PeGaSuS: you may want to   sudo rm -ri /usr/lib/steam/steam_launcher    also to remove this leftover directory.
[18:18] <tomreyn> PeGaSuS: nothing else should depend on any leftovers in there
[18:19] <tomreyn> Menzador: what's a "RAID0 disk"? hardware/fake RAID?
[18:20] <PeGaSuS> tomreyn: done. the error is still presented, though
[18:21] <Menzador> tomreyn: It's two 64 GB mSATA drives in an Acer Aspire S7 that I've used mdadm to RAID0 together into a 128 GB volume called /dev/md0
[18:23] <Menzador> I'm currently trying the installation on a 22.04 LTS disk using the LVM option
[18:26] <PeGaSuS> tomreyn: if I rename fr.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_jammy_universe_binary-amd64_Packages to fr.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_jammy_universe_binary-amd64_Packages~bak, `apt update` works. now the question is: is this safe?
[18:28] <PeGaSuS> it seems the file gets recreated on `apt update`, so this should be safe enough?
[18:28] <Menzador> PeGaSuS: Are you editing your sources.list/.d or something?
[18:30] <PeGaSuS> Menzador: I do have some PPA's added, but it worked before. so, the issue doesn't come from there. I don't manually edit `/etc/apt/sources.list` though
[18:31] <tomreyn> PeGaSuS: yes, it's safe to rename or remove this locally cached copy of this apt repository index
[18:31] <PeGaSuS> tomreyn: cool, thanks. problem solved then :D
[18:32] <tomreyn> PeGaSuS: it may be solved for now, but this should not actually happen in the first place. i would suggest reviewing what may have caused it. possibly a bad disk?
[18:33] <PeGaSuS> it's a brand new SSD though
[18:33] <PeGaSuS> I've played with phased updates, if that may be related
[18:34] <tomreyn> Menzador: oh, so that's probably a software RAID 0 via mdadm then, I see. while you can use LVM to to RAID setups, the more commonly used tool for that is mdadm indeed. and i don't thinkt he desktop installer supports setting orassembling an existing RAID, yet.
[18:34] <PeGaSuS> content of `/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20phased-updates`: https://0bin.xyz/view/91397328
[18:34] <tomreyn> PeGaSuS: could be, depending on what you did
[18:35] <tomreyn> hmm, i don't know exactly how they work under the hood, so can't comment on whether changes to this file could be related to the errors you got (it seems unlikely to me)
[18:36] <PeGaSuS> I'll see if the issue arises again. I've forced some phased updates yesterday, by swapping the values there
[18:36] <PeGaSuS> then I've set the current values
[18:36] <tomreyn> Menzador: and even though LVM can do RAID1, the ubuntu desktop installer doesn't support LVM based RAID
[18:37] <Menzador> tomreyn: Got it. I have experience using the Ubuntu Server installer, so I'll just use that instead. Thanks!
[18:40] <jpmh> I bought a GATEWAY laptop, which I really love, obviously I put 22.04 on it and it runs like a DREAM.  The one thing I am confused about:  It has a fingerprint scanner but lsusb does not show it.  Can someone explain what I am missing, please.  I should add that I really don't care much about the scanner since the machine unlocks when my phone is close, and I really prefer that.  So, really this is just curiosity
[18:41] <theorem> it might not be a USB device ?
[18:41] <jpmh> theorem: AHA - OK - what else could it be?
[18:41] <theorem> or, perhaps an internet USB hub is not detected ?
[18:41] <toddc> lspci?
[18:41] <theorem> *internal
[18:41] <jpmh> theorem: more to the point, how do I find it
[18:42] <theorem> right, try lshw ?
[18:44] <oerheks> lspci could show it, and check the 8 digit hex code here https://fprint.freedesktop.org/supported-devices.html
[18:44] <theorem> I could be some obscure connection mechanism too -- you can probably take a look at the windows drivers for it on the mfg website
[18:45] <theorem> it's probably "secure" as a blob of code the more that I think about -- might take you into reverse engineering land a little bit.
[18:46] <jpmh> guys ty so much.  it is not showing with either lspci or lshw - both commands that are new to me -
[18:46] <theorem> hmm, ok, then let's take a scan through dmesg
[18:46] <theorem> sudo dmesg -T
[18:46] <theorem> check from boot time forward
[18:47] <oerheks> pastebin the output of lspci, maybe you do not recognize the name
[18:47] <theorem> yes, that too
[18:47] <jpmh> the reason I was so slow responding was that I tried to make sure I knew what every device that was reported was
[18:48] <theorem> sure.
[18:48] <theorem> doesn't hurt to have another set of eyes
[18:48] <jpmh> with dmesg what r u suggesting I may see?
[18:49] <theorem> jpmh: look for things that MIGHT be the device
[18:49] <theorem> jpmh: everything in Linux is going to be a filehandle -- so when something is detected, you'll get one.
[18:49] <theorem> there's also a very slim possibility that the devie might actually be bluetooth ...
[18:49] <theorem> that would be stupid, but possible .
[18:49] <jpmh> theorem: yes - that was my first thought and I scanned /dev with that in mind
[18:53] <jpmh> I'm sort of suspicios that it is not detected at all - and really that is fine.  I have no need for it
[18:54] <theorem> yes , it might be hidden by UEFI ?  , or maybe some BIOS changes might have disabled it ?  That's the next place I would look.
[18:55] <theorem> low level bios could be hiding it from you for some kind of security reason -- "unapproved OS" or some nonsense.
[19:03] <jpmh> theorem: and others - ty so much - There is no question that that is likely.  The GATEWAY brand was purchased by ACER and they use it for their "low cost" walmart only offering.  The machine was $199, has 8G, a 256 SSSD and a 14.5 inch screen - it is a lot of computer for less than $200 - and it is clearly an ACER - and I like that brand
[19:03] <theorem> jpmh: neat.
[19:04] <theorem> jpmh: came with windows home I assume ?
[19:15] <jpmh> yep - it came with THAT
[19:37] <Jeremy31> jpmh: On my gateway the fingerprint thing is on the ACPI and it is a FTE3600
[21:00] <arkanoid> "Software installer" won't let me install .deb I've downloaded from the web, but dpkg -i works nicely. Why is ubuntu blocking this on purpose?
[21:01] <oerheks> arkanoid, because we want you to use software center.
[21:02] <oerheks> like apt does, but you are free to download some deb somewhere
[21:02] <arkanoid> apt won't block me installing external debs. Permission system is in charge of this, not apt, not software installer.
[21:03] <oerheks> & some vendors do not want to publish in our repos.
[21:03] <wh> hi, why when i star in ubuntu 22.04 snap steam, always need enter admin password?
[21:04] <linuxmodder> wh, priveledged userspace
[21:04] <oerheks> " apt won't block me installing external debs."  ? only if that external deb had a signed key
[21:04] <arkanoid> I still see no reason to force uses into software center. Just drop a warning, but not block the user from using the integrated default gui
[21:04] <linuxmodder> snap needs root permission unless configured otherwise, which is not the default configuration for snap
[21:05] <oerheks> arkanoid, again, you are free to use other debs or sources.
[21:05] <linuxmodder> its an annoyance for some, maybe many but also a safety
[21:05] <arkanoid> bertieb:
[21:05] <arkanoid> ups
[21:05] <arkanoid> sorry
[21:05] <oerheks> but installing a random .deb package might not give you updates
[21:05] <oerheks> lolz
[21:06] <arkanoid> oerheks: it works the other way around: deb and snap lags behind, and I'm using debs from source
[21:06] <arkanoid> (source is microsoft)
[21:07] <oerheks> lag behind? maybe there is a newer version available, but not tested in ubuntu yet.
[21:07] <oerheks> !newest
[21:07] <arkanoid> btw, I'll look into an alternative gui for installing debs, as I consider this behaviour against user freedom and responsibility
[21:08] <oerheks> good luck!
[21:08] <oerheks> we do not limit the user freedom, i consider your request as an unstable situation.
[21:11] <leftyfb> arkanoid: the softeare center was made with 1 goal. Install and update software from the ubuntu repositories. Installing from .debs is not one of it's features. Just like gedit can't play back music. If you want to install .deb files, you need to use software that was made to do so like dpkg.
[21:11] <arkanoid> leftyfb: false, as by default it is linked to downloaded deb files in nautilus
[21:12] <linuxmodder> oerheks, funny how folks bitch about that type of annoyance and often return with my system is buggered
[21:12] <arkanoid> and gnome-software / synaptic or whatever is not delivered side by side
[21:12] <leftyfb> arkanoid: what are you talking about?
[21:13] <oerheks> dpkg -i <deb> works fine.. but if you double click the deb in a filemanager, software opens... that is so neet
[21:13] <linuxmodder> gedit linked to deb file sin nautilus ?   someone appears to be confused
[21:13] <oerheks> gedit?
[21:13] <oerheks> it gets weirder on saturday support..
[21:14] <linuxmodder> oerheks, I'm used to gentoo and fedora support on the weekends this is tame still
[21:21] <arkanoid> oerheks: 1: software manager is by default linked to all .deb files in nautilus. 2: software manager refuses to install debs not coming from ubuntu repository, agains the execution level of user running it. 3: dpgk -i is not an alternative, "software installer" should be the alternative for opening debs. 4: if you install gnome-software beside software installer, it gets hijacked by software
[21:21] <arkanoid> installer and you get same behaviour.
[21:22] <oerheks> dpgk -i is a *perfect*  alternative
[21:22] <oerheks> if you want something changed, file a bugreport/wishreport?
[21:22] <oerheks> but i bet it is not going to happen
[21:25] <linuxmodder> lol, arkanoid plain and simple that is meant to maintain the sanity and stability of your system, if oyu wish ot do otherwise and jeopardize that you are free to do so but.....
[21:25] <MacSlow> Anybody curious enough to test a patched version of kmscon (KMS-based system console) which allows xrandr-style output-rotation? I works on all of my machines... but that never counts right :)
[21:26] <MacSlow> prebuild .deb are here...  https://launchpad.net/~macslow/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=kmscon&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter= or you can grab the code from https://github.com/MacSlow/kmscon/tree/rotate-orientation
[21:28] <MacSlow> to see what it does you can take a look here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NE0iattvyI&list=PLXvTBWcnTI1OHF7-Op-ASYsQKKg1TYb5Z&index=3
[21:53] <Diagon> Ubuntu 22.04, external monitor. Works with X, but white screens with Wayland. I can see 3-4 pixel width of the top tray, but the rest is white.  Thoughts?
[21:54] <Habbie> Diagon, zero, but somebody who might have ideas will like to know: wayland in which desktop environment?
[21:56] <Diagon> It's pure vanilla 22.04. So that's some modified version of Gnome, right?
[21:56] <Habbie> i believe so
[22:11] <toddc> Diagon: mine works Gnome 22.04 dual monitors   I also found that wayland does not work with Nvidia drivers installer should change it back to X-11
[22:23] <Diagon> toddc / I'm using optimus/nouveau drivers. Display is AOC. Thinkpad W530. Whether on the dock or with mDP connector, it doesn't work.
[22:24] <Habbie> can you easily try without optimus?
[22:24] <Diagon> Habbie / you mean just with nvidia?  or just with iGPU?
[22:24] <Habbie> Diagon, both might actually be interesting
[22:25] <Diagon> It won't work with the iGPU as the display ports need nvidia.
[22:25] <Habbie> ack
[22:25] <Diagon> I suppose I could try with just nvidia.
[22:26] <Diagon> Will have to reboot.  That'll have to be in the evening.  But ...  it should work anyway, no?
[22:26] <Habbie> it should, of course
[22:28] <Habbie> i've been running without optimus for years (Debian, not Ubuntu) because of reasons i already forgot - but that's why i ask if without it works better :)
[22:57] <x1> anyone knows how to completely remove kde environment
[22:58] <cbreak> x1: remove kde-plasma-desktop, and the related stuff you don't want?
[22:59] <x1> correct
[22:59] <jhutchins> There used to be a "remove kde" factoid.  I think it was Debian though.
[23:00] <jhutchins> To remove or purge KDE: aptitude remove kdelibs-data kdelibs4c2a kdelibs5 kdelibs5-data libkdecore5.  Use 'purge' instead
[23:00] <jhutchins>              of 'remove' if that's what you want (ask me about <purge>).
[23:18] <Dunamis> I'm having some annoying issues on KDE with Wayland, things keep flickering (mostly dialogs and web pages)
[23:19] <Dunamis> Bunch of these in journal ```plasmashell[8361]: kf.plasma.quick: Couldn't create KWindowShadow for PlasmaQuick::Dialog_QML_118(0x558ff2832370, name="popupWindow")```
[23:19] <Dunamis> plasmashell[8361]: qt.qpa.wayland: Wayland does not support QWindow::requestActivate()
[23:19] <Dunamis> kwin_wayland_wrapper[8291]: kwin_core: XCB error: 3 (BadWindow),
[23:19] <Dunamis> Any ideas? it's driving me mad lol
[23:36] <jhutchins> Dunamis: Use X.
[23:37] <jhutchins> Dunamis: Wayland is still in development and is known to have problems with KDE.
[23:42] <g-html> oh hi is this thing on?
[23:42] <Habbie> g-html, it is
[23:44] <g-html> i installed ubuntu mate on an old desktop. it like the duel monitors and now it does not. can i delete the monitors.xml file and restart to get back to where i was ?


 I've been snowed under with work this last week like never before :-)
[01:32] <judax> I have not seen it yet, jsgotangco said he was going to do it when he woke up, I went to the mtg however
[01:33] <jsgotangco> the chat transcript are always available in fabbione's shell
[01:33] <judax> jsgotangco: you didn't sleep long
[01:33] <jsgotangco> i haven't done the minutes...i just woke up 2 hours ago :)
[01:33] <jsgotangco> yeah i can survive a 4 hour sleep
[01:33] <judax> that would kill me
[01:33] <JonA> jsgotangco: Got a URL for fabbione's webspace? Much appreciated :-)
[01:34] <jsgotangco> hold on
[01:34] <jsgotangco> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
[01:36] <jsgotangco> hmmm brb im going to move to gnome
[01:36] <jsgotangco> need to do some gui stuff now
[01:36] <jsgotangco> :)
[01:36] <judax> bah
[01:41] <jsgotangco> hmm the live hula account doesnt seem to accept email
[01:41] <JonA> Thanks for the URL, jsgotangco.
[01:41] <judax> jsgotangco: aren't we basing our docspecs on the one for the StyleGuide?
[01:41] <jsgotangco> JonA: its in the topic btw :)
[01:42] <jsgotangco> judax: its favored for consistency, but the premise is that all docs should have an overview
[01:43] <judax> agreed, I see that froud put some docspec outlines in svn for Kubuntu that are a bit different than the format that the
[01:43] <judax> Styleguide uses
[01:44] <judax> I was going to begin writing one and wanted to be consistent
[01:45] <JonA> jsgotangco: Hey, people read those things?! :-)
[01:45] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:45] <judax> nobody ever said that :)
[01:46] <jsgotangco> hmmm strange the hula calendar app assumes every sched needs an invitation
[01:47] <jsgotangco> even events
[01:50] <judax> anyway, I don't think it would look good if all docspecs were done differently
[01:55] <jsgotangco> i agree
[01:57] <judax> jsgotangco: I am going to do it on the wiki in the style the jeffsch used and worry about the stuff in svn later
[01:59] <jsgotangco> yeah i agree we make it simpler first
[04:30] <waterseven> Hi there... Is anyone here that does translations? I am not sure if this is the right channel to get some help with rosetta....
[04:34] <jsgotangco> sure but translations are now done in launchpad...
[04:41] <waterseven> launchpad.... I can't find the template that has the 'Add/remove programs' application such that I can translate it.
[06:31] <jsgotangco> jeezz this meeting minutes is long
[06:31] <jsgotangco> we covered so much
[06:35] <jdub> hello liz.au
[06:35] <jdub> whereabouts are you?
[06:39] <Liz> nsw
[06:39] <Liz> about an hour south of sydney
[06:40] <Liz> in wollongong
[06:40] <Liz> i believe your wifes giving a talk next week at sclug :)
[06:41] <Liz> and im quite looking forwred to it
[06:41] <jdub> cool
[06:53] <Burgundavia> apparently Ubuntu has "something with python"
[06:53] <Burgundavia> http://www.grep.be/blog/2005/06/30/#ubuntu_debian_sidegrade
[06:54] <Liz>  btw jdub ..is there a way to produce a filter that will just delete an email on the list instead of defering it?
[06:54] <Liz> im thinking more of the email lotto emails that have been coming through
[07:06] <jdub> Burgundavia: we do :)
[07:06] <jdub> Liz: there's a "discard all marked deferred" at the bottom and top
[07:06] <Burgundavia> jdub, I thought the comment was funny
[07:09] <Liz> jdub, is there a way to just filter all the lotto emails out without having to "discard all marked deferred"..or does that do an automatic filter?
[07:09] <Liz> i kinda thought that would do it on the whole email address
[07:10] <jdub> Liz: oh, not quite like that, no
[07:10] <jdub> Liz: when we shift the lists to the datacentre, we'll have reasonable spam filtering and so on
[07:14] <Liz> ahh..ok..thought id ask anyway :)
[08:12] <jsgotangco> hey Liz nice seeing you again
[08:13] <Burgundavia> the stuff that google is funding for ubuntu has now been posted
[08:13] <Burgundavia> cool stuff
[08:14] <Burgundavia> Small business server, firewalls, python modules, simple backup
[08:18] <jsgotangco> oh so small business server has become a bounty
[08:19] <Burgundavia> indeed
[08:19] <Burgundavia> how about xen?
[08:20] <jsgotangco> no idea
[08:20] <Burgundavia> if even half this stuff gets finished, it will be great
[08:20] <Burgundavia> no, it is also bountied
[08:20] <Burgundavia> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBounties
[08:21] <Liz> hi jsgotangco ..everyone..
[08:21] <Liz> excuse my rudeness for not saying hi earlier
[08:22] <jsgotangco> no problem i just arrived from lunch
[08:25] <froud> African Greetings
[08:25] <Burgundavia> salut froud
[08:27] <froud> how r u Burgundavia ?
[08:27] <Liz> hiya froud
[08:27] <Burgundavia> not bad
[08:27] <Burgundavia> my relationship with my ex is getting better
[08:27] <froud> Liz my darling Linux Chick, where have you been
[08:27] <froud> Burgundavia: thats good
[08:28] <Liz> here there and nowhere cause ive been lazy..heh
[08:28] <Burgundavia> and I learned that one of the people i did Katimavik with has a kid, with another one of the people I did katimvik with
[08:28] <froud> Katimavik?
[08:28] <Liz> how are you and family froud ?
[08:28] <froud> We're good
[08:28] <froud> cold caus eits winter, but good
[08:28] <Liz> :)
[08:29] <Liz> yeah, we have hte same complaint here
[08:29] <Liz> that and too much rain
[08:29] <froud> you in middle earth right?
[08:29] <Liz> well..southern earth more like
[08:29] <Liz> heh
[08:30] <Liz> new south wales australia froud
[08:30] <froud> we dont get rain in the winter, just chills
[08:30] <Liz> i think i prefer the rain to none
[08:30] <froud> Oh yeah, no worries
[08:30] <jsgotangco> i'd pay for winter in my place
[08:30] <jsgotangco> cost of airconditioning is killing me
[08:30] <froud> well when I live din Melbourne it seemed to rain all the time
[08:31] <froud> jsgotangco: noooo heat, gimme heat
[08:31] <froud> jsgotangco: hot, slippery and swetty nights
[08:31] <jsgotangco> wow
[08:31] <jsgotangco> i didnt know you lived in Melbourne
[08:31] <froud> yes, was on contract for a year with Medibank Private
[08:31] <Liz> lol
[08:31] <mdke> morning all
[08:31] <jsgotangco> no way i'm so tired of hot, humid environments
[08:31] <Liz> hiya mdke
[08:31] <Liz> i dont mind some heat
[08:32] <froud> jsgotangco: I grew up in Durban, hot and humid
[08:32] <Liz> and no images Burgundavia
[08:32] <jsgotangco> btw, meeting minutes almost done, sheeshh..we've covered so much last night the minutes are so long
[08:32] <mdke> :)
[08:32] <froud> Burgundavia: wrong images are good
[08:32] <mdke> but we made lots of decisions
[08:32] <froud> hello mdke
[08:32] <mdke> yo froud
[08:32] <Burgundavia> froud, sorry man, but not of you
[08:32] <froud> He he I hope not
[08:33] <jsgotangco> ok let me finish this first
[08:33] <jsgotangco> argghh
[08:33] <jsgotangco> mdke: and i was about to ask you to review it first
[08:33] <jsgotangco> grr
[08:33] <froud> Liz: you gonna work on some docs
[08:33] <mdke> jsgotangco, did you write that?
[08:33] <Liz> shortly froud i will be
[08:33] <Liz> just about caught up on all things ive put off with uni word
[08:33] <froud> Cool, are you doing gnome or kde?
[08:33] <jsgotangco> mdke: write what
[08:33] <Liz> gnome
[08:33] <froud> these days
[08:33] <froud> Ok cool
[08:34] <mdke> jsgotangco, the doc you committed just now
[08:34] <jsgotangco> mdke: its in the wiki, its almost done
[08:34] <jsgotangco> mdke: yeah, it sucks
[08:34] <mdke> oh
[08:34] <froud> question to all. Can I move trunk/debain to gnome/debian
[08:34] <mdke> what page is it in the wiki
[08:34] <jsgotangco> mdke: not in our wiki
[08:35] <jsgotangco> mdke: colin applegate wrote that, you should see him in the summit
[08:35] <jsgotangco> well not should
[08:35] <jsgotangco> i meant
[08:35] <jsgotangco> you might see him
[08:35] <mdke> jsgotangco, in the edubuntu wiki, what url is it
[08:35] <mdke> i can't find it
[08:35] <jsgotangco> mdke: its not there, i just grabbed it from the list
[08:35] <mdke> oh
[08:35] <mdke> 07:34 < jsgotangco> mdke: its in the wiki
[08:36] <froud> ppl. Can I move trunk/debain to gnome/debian
[08:36] <jsgotangco> mdke: i meant the minutes
[08:36] <jsgotangco> froud: why gnome?
[08:36] <froud> cause it is only gnome
[08:36] <froud> and we now have kde/debian
[08:36] <jsgotangco> hrrmm
[08:36] <jsgotangco> for consistency?
[08:36] <mdke> jsgotangco, ah i c
[08:36] <froud> yes and practical reasons
[08:37] <froud> during build
[08:37] <mdke> jsgotangco, is there still a question mark over where the edubuntu docs are going to be worked on?
[08:37] <jsgotangco> mdke: if you catch up ogra, can you say hi for me
[08:37] <mdke> alright
[08:37] <jsgotangco> mdke: yup, its still in flux....still have to wait for the live cd
[08:37] <mdke> i saw the list thread
[08:37] <jsgotangco> mdke: and tell ogra not to ignore the fish if its given to him heh
[08:38] <jsgotangco> mdke: maintaining documentation in moin is not a good idea IMO
[08:38] <jsgotangco> although its possible
[08:38] <mdke> yeah i'll let them know the limitations
[08:38] <mdke> henrik knows em too
[08:38] <jsgotangco> henrik is coming?
[08:38] <mdke> yes
[08:39] <jsgotangco> oh cool
[08:39] <mdke> thank god
[08:39] <mdke> otherwise there'd be not a single person i know
[08:39] <mdke> ;)
[08:39] <jsgotangco> oh they're incredibly easy to spot
[08:39] <jsgotangco> ogra looks like a rock guitar player
[08:40] <mdke> haha
[08:40] <mdke> i'm not so good at the whole schmoozing thing so fingers crosse
[08:40] <mdke> d
[08:40] <jsgotangco> schmoozing?
[08:40] <jsgotangco> kiss?
[08:40] <mdke> socialising
[08:40] <mdke> heh no
[08:41] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeetingSummary6
[08:42] <jsgotangco> can you review that while you're here
[08:42] <jsgotangco> its almost done, just the wiki part and the jdub part
[08:42] <mdke> not properly
[08:42] <mdke> i should leave soon
[08:42] <jsgotangco> ok
[08:42] <mdke> looks comprehensive though!
[08:43] <jsgotangco> jeezz we had 2 solid hours
[08:43] <jsgotangco> i barely slept..
[08:43] <mdke> ouch
[08:43] <jsgotangco> woke up around 5:30AM
[08:43] <mdke> bloody hell
[08:44] <jsgotangco> i had to leave by 6am
[08:44] <mdke> and I thought I hadn't had much sleep
[08:44] <mdke> ok i'm off
[08:44] <mdke> see ya later
[08:44] <jsgotangco> later
[08:46] <froud> jsgotangco: nice work dude
[08:46] <jsgotangco> almost done..
[08:46] <froud> jsgotangco: your wife just came back from KL and you wake up at 5:30AM. No dude
[08:47] <jsgotangco> :P
[08:48] <froud> Liz: we need more linux chicks to help out on docs
[08:48] <froud> Liz: to bring some sanity to us and normalize the testosterone levels
[08:49] <Liz> heh...yeah right
[08:58] <Liz> chicken ..heh
[09:09] <Liz> :o
[09:37] <froud> huh?
[09:38] <Burgundavia> your kde vendor drop
[09:39] <froud> Ah ha, could not be helped, svn does that by itself
[09:39] <froud> Ok changing computers. C you alllater
[10:06] <jsgotangco> alright the minutes are done
[10:06] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeetingSummary6
[10:06] <jsgotangco> (long read btw)
[10:11] <robitaille> thanks for the minute.  And totally agree with the very last quote from jdub (which explain why I didn't make it :) )
[10:15] <jsgotangco> haha
[10:15] <judax> whoa
[10:15] <jsgotangco> it was 2am on his side when it ended
[10:15] <judax> that commit email is dang near choking Kmail
[10:15] <jsgotangco> mine was 12am
[10:17] <robitaille> so I guess I made it to the wiki team without attending?  :)
[10:17] <robitaille> Which is fine, I was going to send an e-mail about the fact that I'm all for that
[10:18] <judax> beginnings of a docspec for kquickguide are at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KQuickGuide
[10:21] <froud> when changing /etc/apt/sources.list for the first time, is it worth removing the deb cdrom ?
[10:22] <jsgotangco> i wouldn't really do that
[10:22] <robitaille> personally I never use the cdrom in my sources.list
[10:23] <jsgotangco> i just find it handy though to have it because i wouldn't have to download everything just in case
[10:23] <robitaille> probably because I can never find my Ubuntu CD... and I know all the updated stuff is online
[10:24] <jsgotangco> its not an issue really if you have a nice online connection
[10:24] <judax> I removed it, but I have fat pipe
[10:24] <froud> yes, just thinking what is best to tell a user
[10:24] <froud> IMHO once you have the online repos you wont use the CD
[10:25] <judax> yes
[10:25] <froud> but then, some people like to install from CD and patch later
[10:25] <jsgotangco> yeah by default if there is no updated patch, it gets from the cd
[10:26] <judax> froud: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KQuickGuide as a start
[10:26] <judax> very young
[10:27] <jsgotangco> owww you beat me to it
[10:28] <judax> done quickly, so not proofed or done yet
[10:29] <froud> judax: cool dude
[10:29] <froud> I have to port it to svn
[10:30] <froud> question?
[10:30] <froud> when doing a dist-upgrade
[10:30] <froud> is it not better to do it just from a console login
[10:30] <froud> just incase there are mater to do with the display manager and x
[10:31] <robitaille> I don't think it matters (but could be wrong).  I have done dist-upgrade from both console and X session, and can
[10:32] <jdub> no, no reason to
[10:32] <judax> I have only ever done dist-upgrades from CLI, but I have done them from within the DE, maybe pressing my luck
[10:32] <robitaille> t remember  having a problem in one case not present in the other
[10:32] <Liz> bbl..the boy wants to use my machine
[10:33] <judax> need to sleep, short side of 4am here and the long side of a few Johnnie Walker's, take care
[10:33] <froud> Hmm, OK thanks
[10:33] <froud> judax: cheer
[10:34] <jsgotangco> nice
[10:36] <froud> dudes you may have seen an upstream kde vendor drop in vendor/kde/doc
[10:37] <froud> I will send mail to explain its use later
[10:37] <froud> now question?
[10:37] <froud> would ppl rather make a copy to trunk/kde/
[10:38] <froud> or work with it in vendor/kde/doc
[10:38] <jsgotangco> i have no idea
[10:38] <froud> anyone else
[10:39] <froud> darn svn is at 1.0
[10:39] <froud> can t use links
[10:40] <froud> need svn 1.1
[10:42] <froud> OK cant find him
[11:22] <froud> really like the format Jeffsch has started for the doc specs
[11:22] <froud> simple easy quick
[11:25] <jsgotangco> oh yeah
[11:26] <froud> anyone know where I can find information about the graphical installer
[11:31] <jsgotangco> have you tried the udu wiki?
[11:36] <froud> yes, I found this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalInstaller?highlight=%28Installer%29%7C%28Graphical%29
[11:43] <froud> anyone know how far along this is. Will it be included in a Colony (which one) so we can update the installation guide ?
[11:47] <jsgotangco> you can try asking Kamion if he's online
[11:47] <froud> thanks
[11:56] <froud> kamion is meeting with mdz next week to discuss the graphical installer. When it will be available for documentation is still not known
[12:04] <jsgotangco> ahh
[12:07] <Njal> Unfortunatly i have to reinstall my system, due to a failing hard drive amung other things, so i will not be writing patches for the next few days
[12:08] <jsgotangco> Njal: no worries, patches are always welcome anytime
[12:09] <Njal> I know, i'd rather not have to reinstall, but i have to, can someone email me the instruction's to set up the CVS again, since everything's gona be wiped
[12:11] <jsgotangco> mmm?
[12:12] <jsgotangco> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-docs
[12:13] <Njal> oh i'll just save the page on to one of my CD's that i'm backing up on to
[01:02] <froud> Thoughts and ideas on the cover for the the printed version of the Kubuntu User Guide welcome http://lnix.net/~froud/artwork/kubuntu-cover.png
[01:02] <froud> inkscape src available at https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/artwork/kubuntu-cover.svg
[04:35] <mgalvin> hi all
[05:39] <FLeiXiuS> Hey
[07:11] <froud> Anyone installed Kubuntu Breezy?
[07:12] <froud> I'm having problems with the dist-upgrade
[07:12] <froud> when it finished xserver, kdm and kde are all removed
[07:13] <froud> only a console remains
[07:13] <froud> anyone else had this problem?
[07:17] <FLeiXiuS> Might want to try #kubuntu :-P
[07:18] <judax> froud: I think there are X issues from what I read on the lists and boards, but there are easy fixes/workarounds
[07:19] <froud> pointers?
[07:19] <froud> URL
[07:19] <judax> froud: I have not done upgrade just what I read
[07:19] <judax> froud: bah, just whacked all my list mail
[07:20] <froud> OK, need to get a breezy running soon, there are some heavy changes. KControl Center is replaced with KDE-SystemSettings
[07:20] <judax> there is a pretty active current breezy X thread, I will ping you when I find it
[07:20] <froud> judax: Riddle has pointed me here http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuRoadmap
[07:21] <froud> but knowing what is and is not being worked on is hit-and-run
[07:22] <froud> Strange Ubuntu did work with a few nudges
[07:23] <judax> ok, I'll take a look at that page
[08:22] <mdke> evening all
[08:32] <jjesse> afternoon
[09:07] <froud> hello jjesse take a look at http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuRoadmap
[09:57] <judax> well, there goes the Kynaptic documentation
[10:23] <jjesse> YaY
[10:25] <froud> yep
[10:25] <froud> Kapture
[10:25] <froud> but the main problem is that it is hard to know what is and is notbeing worked on
[10:25] <froud> hard to plan docs when its like this
[10:26] <froud> and a colony cd for breezy k is way to close to release
[10:29] <jjesse> that colony cd will be both ubuntu and kubuntu right?
[10:29] <froud> well either way


[03:22] <[reed]> boo, UDS is at the Crittenden Complex
[03:22] <[reed]> not the Googleplex
[03:23] <[reed]> that's a long walk back to Mozilla :(
[08:29] <noosferema> hello everyone
[08:30] <noosferema> i have gathered a number of linux users in Tanzania that are willing to start working on the translation of ff3 to swahili
[08:30] <noosferema> i need some light as where to start
[08:32] <noosferema> someone please help me
[09:33] <asac> [reed]: oh :/ ... for me all this is far, far away ;)
[09:34] <asac> fta: yeah lets loiter the archive with huge -dbg packages
[10:16] <asac> sebner: congrats!!
[10:16]  * sebner hides
[10:17] <sebner> asac: thx :D
[10:17] <asac> sebner: now you can help here ;)
[10:17] <asac> - even more ;)
[10:17] <sebner> asac: epiphany ftw! :P
[10:44] <asac> fta: you remember that we had issues with something abrowser related on amd64?
[10:45] <asac> fta: some pref was empty or something
[10:58] <gnomefreak> crapload of meetings today, seems -meeting is gonna be busy today
[10:59] <asac> heh
[10:59] <asac> gnomefreak: hi!
[10:59] <gnomefreak> asac: good morning
[11:02] <gnomefreak> we are being complained about on the firefox dev list. we dont release fast enough
[11:03] <asac> gnomefreak: reference?
[11:04] <asac> you have a link?
[11:05] <asac> gnomefreak: which list is that on?
[11:07] <gnomefreak> give me a sec.
[11:08] <gnomefreak> the list looks to be<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:09] <gnomefreak> im grabbing link to topic
[11:11] <gnomefreak> asac: here is the link to the topic
[11:11] <gnomefreak> oops
[11:11] <gnomefreak> asac: http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.apps.firefox/browse_thread/thread/e962dfa292eb4200#
[11:13] <asac> gnomefreak: dont see any real complain there
[11:13] <asac> gnomefreak: just that the user doesnt know how to update his system ;)
[11:14] <gnomefreak> could be. i took the part about us not having released security update as fast as he would like. but i can see what you mean
[11:16] <asac> at least there is no direct accusation
[11:16] <asac> ;)
[11:18] <gnomefreak> Topic: Please no Firefox bars in SeaMonkey 2.0 is a good one
[11:18] <asac> heh
[11:18] <asac> in dev-apps-firefox?
[11:18] <asac> interesting ;)
[11:21] <gnomefreak> asac<EMAIL_ADDRESS>https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-seamonkey
[11:22] <asac> ah ;)
[11:23] <gnomefreak> seems sunbird 1.0 is gonna have UI changes like the wweek month ect... are being replaced with tabs
[11:24] <asac> hmm ... ok
[11:24] <asac> not sure if thats better though
[11:24] <asac> but well
[11:25] <gnomefreak> what does this mean? The current command did not succeed.  The mail server responded: No messages match. (Failure)
[11:25] <gnomefreak> .
[11:25] <gnomefreak> im getting tires of seeing that
[11:25] <gnomefreak> tired*
[11:25] <asac> gnomefreak: hmm
[11:26] <asac> gnomefreak: did you try to compact your folder?
[11:26] <asac> or remove the .msf files?
[11:26] <asac> maybe your cache is corrupted or out of sync with reality
[11:27] <gnomefreak> ok ill play with it see if i can find .msf or ill even start with new profile
[11:31] <gnomefreak> i dont see any .msf files but maybe ill try empting/removing .thunderbird-3.0/*.default/Cache
[11:32] <gnomefreak> brb making coffee and smoke
[11:33] <asac> dolske: hi! could you look at the review i asked for in 394610 a while back ... 1.8.0 branch. but ... ;)
[11:39] <asac> gnomefreak: hmm .... 3.0 doesnt use mfs anymore?
[11:39] <asac> gnomefreak: i have a bunch of them in my profile
[11:40] <asac> mfs
[11:40] <asac> msf
[11:40] <asac> ;)
[11:40] <gnomefreak> where?
[11:41] <gnomefreak> ~/.thunderbird-3.0/4rdbxcll.default has none
[11:42] <gnomefreak> ah its in IMAP
[11:42] <gnomefreak> but im not using IMAP i thought
[11:43] <gnomefreak> ok got rid of them
[11:43] <gnomefreak> will test when updates are done
[11:48] <gnomefreak> asac: NCommander seems to be fairly active in kubuntu-devel
[11:48] <asac> [reed]: i have some questions ;) ... will just take a minute if you need some distraction ;)
[11:49] <asac> gnomefreak: are we waiting for something from him?
[11:49] <gnomefreak> we denied him membership due to lack of work/experiance
[11:50] <gnomefreak> something like that IIRC
[11:51] <asac> lack of work
[11:51] <asac> contributions i think
[11:51] <gnomefreak> removing .msf files doesnt fix it
[11:51] <asac> not experience
[11:51] <gnomefreak> yeah that sounds better
[11:51] <asac> i said it was fine with me .... but we ask more than just one contribution
[11:51] <asac> he did one icedove update iirc
[11:51] <gnomefreak> ah
[11:53] <asac> asked him whats going on ;)
[11:53] <gnomefreak> you did?
[11:54] <gnomefreak> asac: what is chromium-*
[11:56] <asac> gnomefreak: chromium is to chrome what mozilla is to firefox ;)
[11:56] <gnomefreak> oh
[11:58] <gnomefreak> chrome is in FF source as i recall, why would we need it as another package?
[12:12]  * gnomefreak restarting
[12:26] <gnomefreak> can we remove Firefox 3 released to hardy-updates! from topic yet?
[12:28] <Nafallo> and the colon, and the extra whitspace ? :-)
[12:32] <asac> gnomefreak: go ahead ;)
[12:32] <gnomefreak> k as soon as im done with blogs
[12:34] <Nafallo> whitespace damnit
[12:34] <gnomefreak> i knew what you meant :)
[12:36] <Nafallo> meeh. whitespace and colon still there ;-)
[12:37] <Nafallo> eam: |  Mai
[12:37] <asac> and next meeting TBA ;)
[12:37] <gnomefreak> | Next meeting TBA, if you  is how it should be no?
[12:38] <asac> gnomefreak: wasnt that announced yet?
[12:38] <gnomefreak> whitespace after Mailing Lists is only due to address not fitting on same line
[12:38] <gnomefreak> asac: i havent seen any meeting announcement
[12:38] <Nafallo> it's before Mailing List :-)
[12:38] <Nafallo> aha
[12:38] <Nafallo> ehrm
[12:38] <Nafallo> odd
[12:39] <Nafallo> I thought that depended on what width you have on your client? ;-)
[12:39] <asac> gnomefreak: not?
[12:39] <asac> gnomefreak: maybe the mail needs moderation?
[12:39] <gnomefreak> yeah it does
[12:39] <gnomefreak> asac: looking at agenda
[12:39] <gnomefreak> nope no meeting set AFAIK
[12:40] <gnomefreak> no one did minutes?
[12:40] <asac> gnomefreak: i have to ... do you remember the date of last meeting?
[12:40] <asac> have to dig up the logs
[12:41] <gnomefreak> you would ask that :(
[12:41] <gnomefreak> one minute i think i can find it
[12:42] <gnomefreak> asac: 2008-11-20 looks to be right
[12:42] <gnomefreak> as i recall i edited the page after meeting
[12:42] <asac> 20 11?
[12:42] <asac> it definitly was longer ago
[12:42] <gnomefreak> nov 20
[12:42] <asac> not just two weeks ;)
[12:43] <gnomefreak> 195  2008-11-20 06:01:17  1884   gnomefreak  Updated for next meeting, Leaving agenda until it is finished and minutes are posted.  view
[12:43] <asac> yeah
[12:43] <asac> hmm
[12:43] <gnomefreak> asac: nov 2nd?
[12:43] <asac> wasnt that the weekend after release?
[12:43] <asac> yeah that sounds more reasonable
[12:44] <gnomefreak> your edit has nov 2nd shown on wiki
[12:44] <gnomefreak> When: November 2nd, 2008
[12:44] <gnomefreak> Where: #ubuntu-meeting on the Freenode Network
[12:44] <asac> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/11/02/%23ubuntu-meeting.txt
[12:44] <asac> seems to be a mozilla meeting there ;)
[12:45] <gnomefreak> thats the one
[12:45] <asac> gnomefreak: so how do minutes work? fill in the meeting page and then copy that ?
[12:45] <gnomefreak> i hate parent teacher confrences
[12:45] <gnomefreak> im not sure ive never done them
[12:54] <asac> gnomefreak: is your kid already that old?
[13:03] <gnomefreak> asac: i have a son from x-wife and a little girl with current g/f
[13:05] <gnomefreak> son is 14 and the baby is 22 months
[13:06] <asac> gnomefreak: is volans a member yet?
[13:06] <asac> gnomefreak: oh. didnt know about the older son ;)
[13:07] <gnomefreak> not sure. i dont remember seeing him apply
[13:07] <gnomefreak> E: read, still have 1625108 to read but none left
[13:07] <gnomefreak> E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened.
[13:07] <gnomefreak> i hate dpkg today
[13:08] <gnomefreak> asac: i dont normally talk about him since i dont see him everyday due to his mother being a <insert bad word here>
[13:10] <gnomefreak> ill be back, i need to get ready to go meeting is in 1 1/2 hours
[13:29] <asac> ok meeting minutes done ;) ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-11-02
[13:41] <asac> http://www.asoftsite.org/s9y/archives/155-Ubuntu-MozillaTeam-Meeting-Minutes-Nov,-2-2008.html
[14:11] <[reed]> asac: it's about a mile from Mozilla
[14:11] <[reed]> asac: I'll be around later if you need me
[14:11] <[reed]> going to class now
[14:53] <asac> [reed]: what hotel was the bad internet connectivity one?
[16:50] <[reed]> asac: Wild Palms
[16:50] <[reed]> we're at the Domain Hotel, though
[16:50] <[reed]> never been there, so dunno about internet
[16:52] <asac> [reed]: good. i think we stay at Domain too
[16:52] <asac> uncertainty is definitly better than certainty to have bad access ;)
[16:54] <[reed]> hehe
 [reed]: i have some questions ;) ... will just take a minute if you need some distraction ;)
[16:55] <[reed]> any other questions?
[16:59] <fta2> [reed], are you sure we're not at Wild Palms ?
[17:01] <fta2> asac, ^^
[17:01] <[reed]> fta2: yeah, I confirmed with jcastro
[17:01] <fta2> where is that mentionned ?
[17:02] <[reed]> in the e-mail
[17:02] <[reed]> that we got last week
[17:02] <fta2> damn, I sent to myself something at the Wild palms
[17:03] <[reed]> well, the wiki page says Wild Palms because that's the overflow hotel
[17:03] <[reed]> for those Canonical isn't paying for
[17:03] <fta2> overflow hotel ?
[17:03] <[reed]> yeah, Canonical bought every room in the Domain Hotel
[17:03] <fta2> damn
[17:04] <[reed]> must be a small hotel
[17:04] <fta2> what am i supposed to do now?
[17:04] <[reed]> well, they aren't far from each other
[17:04] <[reed]> you could call the Wild Palms and explain the problem... say you'll just pick it up next week
[17:05] <[reed]> they are about 1/2 mile apart
[17:06] <[reed]> fta2: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=1085+East+El+Camino+Real,+Sunnyvale,+CA+94087+(Domain+Hotel)&daddr=910+E+Fremont+Ave,+Sunnyvale,+CA+94087+(Wild+Palms+Hotel)&hl=en&geocode=FfX1OQIdk2W6-CEzs7NWYRi52A%3BCcOzhSoacpGzFfnvOQIdyTi6-CFKCwVYHFXddA&mra=pe&mrcr=0&dirflg=w&sll=37.352183,-122.02643&sspn=0.048238,0.077248&ie=UTF8&z=16
[17:08] <[reed]> and the bus may go to both hotels
[17:08] <[reed]> to pick up people
[17:08] <[reed]> I dunno
[17:08] <[reed]> you could check with Clare
[17:08] <[reed]> Claire*
[17:21] <directhex> Get:12 http://mirror.ox.ac.uk jaunty/main xulrunner-1.9-dev <IP_ADDRESS>+nobinonly-0ubuntu1 [4565kB]
[17:38] <fta2> [reed], done, I called the Domain, they'll take care of everything
[17:38] <fta2> or at least I hope so
[19:07] <asac> [reed]: i wanted to commit stuff and wondered how to document if a patch has been reviewed by two folks... but found an example
[19:08] <[reed]> r=bar r=foo
[19:08] <[reed]> r+sr=bar if the same person granted both
[19:08] <asac> [reed]: yeah. i found r=bar,foo
[19:08] <[reed]> I don't like that format personally
[19:08] <[reed]> find it better to keep them separate
[19:09] <asac> [reed]: ok
[19:09] <asac> [reed]: some commits seem to just say r=x sr=y a=z ... while some put a / in between
[19:09] <asac> [reed]: is there some official format ;)
[19:09] <asac> ?
[19:10] <[reed]> no
[19:10] <[reed]> just include bug #, description of patch/bug, reviewers, approvals
[19:10] <[reed]> no real standardized format
[19:11] <[reed]> what bug are you committin?
[19:11] <[reed]> =g
[19:11] <[reed]> +g*
[19:11] <asac> [reed]: some use p=reed ...some say Patch by Reed Looden<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:11] <asac> i sasume the patch credits deserve details?
[19:12] <[reed]> oh, it's not your patch?
[19:12] <[reed]> is this CVS or Hg?
[19:12] <asac> [reed]: CVS ...
[19:12] <[reed]> yeah, for CVS, you have to include the patch author
[19:12] <[reed]> for Hg, you can just commit as that user
[19:12] <[reed]> using hg commit -u
[19:12] <asac> [reed]: how to set the patch author in hg
[19:12] <asac> ok
[19:13] <asac> [reed]: hmm ... doesnt hg have the notion of "Committer: vs. Author:" ... like git does?
[19:13] <[reed]> hg commit -u "Alexander Sack<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:13] <[reed]> etc.
[19:13] <[reed]> not really, but we keep a lot of who really commits the patch
[19:13] <asac> thought i saw committs with both
[19:13] <asac> hmm
[19:13] <[reed]> a log*
[19:13] <asac> let me browse the hg page ... but most likely i just confuse with some git archive ;)
[19:14] <[reed]> lol
[19:15] <asac> [reed]: i alsways thought you imported the CVS history to hg and then auto synched there for a while
[19:15] <asac> [reed]: part of that thought seems to bewrong
[19:15] <asac> as hg blame mostly has all revision 1
[19:16] <[reed]> we did import some history from CVS into Hg
[19:16] <[reed]> not much, though
[19:16] <asac> [reed]: so you startred at some point and then synched for a whlie i guess?
[19:16] <[reed]> yes
[19:16] <[reed]> for a while
[19:16] <asac> ok that explains blame is so useless
[19:16] <[reed]> correct
[19:17] <asac> are there any efforts to ever fix that? i dont want blame, but i like to look at the bugs that lead to a commit
[19:17] <asac> currently i always have to go to old mozilla mxr
[19:17] <asac> which probably will become quite hard at some point ;) ... when the code drifts further away
[19:18] <[reed]> no
[19:32] <asac> [reed]: its about mozilla bug 413135 ... the combined patch by caillon is what should get committed
[19:33] <[reed]> so, my commit message would be:
[19:34] <[reed]> the combined patch has both patches in it?
[19:34] <[reed]> if so, I'd do something like
[19:34] <[reed]> Bug 413135 - "Prevent canceling individual keystrokes on input type="file""<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(Smaug) r+sr=bzbarsky r+sr=sicking a=caillon]
[19:35] <[reed]> that's my personal style
[19:35] <[reed]> if it's only one patch or the other, change reviewers appropriately
[19:35] <[reed]> etc.
[19:36] <asac> ok i think i get it.
[19:37] <asac> [reed]: why sicking instead of jonas ;)?
[19:37] <[reed]> usually use IRC nicks
[19:37] <asac> ok
[19:37] <[reed]> though, I use bzbarsky instead of bz, but whatever
[19:37] <asac> hmm.
[19:37] <[reed]> IRC nicks are more common
[19:37] <asac> probably look at precedence
[20:13] <fta> [reed], what email were you referring to earlier today?
[20:14] <[reed]> you and your e-mail problems
[20:14] <[reed]> lol
[20:15] <[reed]> Subject: UDS Final Notice
[20:15] <[reed]> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:17:25 -0500
[20:16] <[reed]> From: "Jorge O. Castro"<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:16] <[reed]> look for that
[20:16] <fta> i have that one
[20:16] <fta> oh, ok
[20:17] <fta> the supershuttle email
[20:26] <fta> asac, seems like you arrive in SFO ~30min after me. want to share the taxi/shuttle/whatever?
[20:54] <fta> asac, no ! xulrunner-1.9.1.head #379
[20:55] <fta> i need both xul -dev in the same chroot
[20:55] <fta> otherwise, i can't build both ff
[20:57] <asac> its a trade-off
[20:57] <asac> either you need to adjust each and every package you want to build against 1.9.1
[20:57] <asac> or to accept that -dev packages conflict
[20:58] <asac> i dont see a better solution ... we could divert stuff
[20:58] <asac> but sounds like over complicated
[20:58] <asac> if you really need it we can look into diversion
[20:58] <fta> divert will not solve anything
[20:58] <asac> fta: yes it will
[20:59] <fta> how, manually change each time i switch branch ?
[20:59] <asac> fta: ff doesnt even  use pkg-config for sdkdir
[20:59] <asac> fta: ff doesnt use pkg-config  but --with-libxul-sdk
[20:59] <fta> i know
[21:00] <fta> but i still need the two -dev
[21:00] <asac> fta: yes. currently it conflicts because i didnt see any issues with having both conflict
[21:00] <asac> diversions would remove conflict
[21:00] <asac> obviously ;)
[21:01] <asac> fta: do you need the same chroot for both?
[21:02] <fta> i work in a huge chroot
[21:31] <fta> crimsun, I can't finish a single level of openarena anymore :( sound is jerky, then o-a aborts because p-a is dead
[21:59] <fta> stevel, thanks for the songbird tag. i've built it locally, looks fine, pushing to my ppa right now (for hardy/intrepid/jaunty)
[22:00] <fta> stevel, i have a bunch of sqlite errors in the error console, probably the concert addon
[22:01] <fta> stevel, and i have a tab that opened with an error 500 on http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/173
[22:02] <stevel> fta: yeah, the sqlite errors are known - they'll be fixed soon, but they're innocuous
[22:02] <stevel> and the addons site issues are because we're getting swamped with traffic
[22:02] <stevel> new resources are being added to the site now to cope with the load
[22:03] <fta> ok, all fine then. now, the remaining issue is to enter the ubuntu repo officially
[22:05] <fta> a native systray, support for the multimedia keys, an unjailed main window and maybe a more native look and i'll drop rhythmbox for sure
[22:17] <stevel> woo! :)
[22:17] <stevel> will you be at fosscamp/uds next week?
[22:17] <fta> uds
[22:17] <stevel> hrm. are you going to the mozilla open house next wednesday evening?
[22:18] <fta> hm, not sure
[22:18] <fta> [reed], are we ? ^^
[22:18] <stevel> whoever is going - let me know your t-shirt sizes and i'll bring some songbird shirts down :)
[22:18] <fta> "S"
[22:18] <stevel> it's wednesday evening @ the mozilla office 6p-8p
[22:20] <fta> all builds just started: https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds
[22:21] <stevel> nice
[22:22] <fta> jcastro, https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds
[22:23] <jcastro> fta: stop hogging, I am trying to build stuff.
[22:23] <jcastro> just kidding
[22:23] <fta> i should wait the end of the builds before jumping everywhere
[22:23] <jcastro> hey you guys cool with a session with stevel during UDS wrt. songbird?
[22:24] <stevel> jcastro: i am! ;-)
[22:24] <fta> i am too
[22:24] <stevel> jcastro: i was just saying i'm going to be down there wednesday evening for the mozilla open house - we could meet up wednesday if you guys are free
[22:29] <jcastro> that sounds good
[22:29] <jcastro> there's a mozilla open house?
[22:30] <stevel> jcastro: yeah, in conjunction with add-on-con next thursday
[22:30] <stevel> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Add-on_con#Mozilla_Open_House
[22:30] <stevel> add-on-con page here: http://addoncon.com/
[22:35] <jcastro> oh man, I didn't know about that
[22:35] <jcastro> If it's open to other people then I will definately get the word out
[22:38] <stevel> it's an open house - so i'm pretty sure it's open to anyone :)
[22:38] <stevel> is UDS open to anyone?  or shall i come by at a specific time to meet you guys?
[22:39] <jcastro> it is open to anyone
[22:40] <jcastro> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-jaunty/
[22:40] <jcastro> there's the schedule
[22:40] <jcastro> I don't think it should be a formal one, we can just snag fta/asac and bust it out in the corner of a plenary room
[22:43] <stevel> 'k. i'll come down wednesday noon-ish and try to find you guys
[22:44] <fta> stevel, http://www.asoftsite.org/s9y/archives/134-UDS-Prague-MozillaTeam.html
[22:47] <stevel> ah-ha. nice. :)
[22:47] <stevel> <----- http://whacked.net/stevel.png
[22:48] <jcastro> speaking of, [reed]
[22:48] <jcastro> [reed]: you're supposed to have told us about this open house like, a long time ago
[22:49] <fta> i remember he announced addoncon here
[22:50] <fta> jcastro, btw, i was supposed to meet with at least one chromium guy on monday. but i thought we were in the googleplex
[22:51] <stevel> jcastro: do you know where in the GooglePlex UDS will be?
[22:51] <jcastro> stevel: yeah, 1400 or something like that
[22:51] <fta> stevel, songbird is quite a pig wrt cpu :(
[22:51] <jcastro> there's a map on the wikipage
[22:51] <stevel> jcastro: thanks
[22:51] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSJaunty
[22:52] <stevel> fta: do you have mashTape loaded?
[22:52] <fta> stevel, yes, it poped up as recommended
[22:53] <stevel> fta: 'k, yeah - mashTape tends to consume CPU and memory (since it's loading in images & Flash)
[22:53] <stevel> it's recommend since we think it's a really cool add-on, but is not for people who are looking for a lean media player
[22:54] <fta> 30% on my dual core 2 is quite high
[22:54] <stevel> try unloading mashTape and see if it drops
[22:56] <fta> 12%
[22:56] <fta> still high
[22:56] <stevel> better. still seems a bit high though
[23:06] <shiv> when I type a URL in firefox its not taking me to the new URL but to the last visited page. Any clue why this new behavior?
[23:07] <asac> stevel: i want a shirt too ;)
[23:12] <asac> j.k.
[23:18] <stevel> asac: what size?
[23:20] <fta> stevel, it is possible to have stickers too?
[23:20] <stevel> fta: totally - i'll bring a bunch of stickers down
[23:20] <fta> great
[23:20] <asac> stevel: would be XL ... I guess ;)
[23:20] <fta> asac, XL US ??
[23:20] <asac> fta: dont confuse me
[23:21] <asac> fta: not sure. XL is at least not too small ;)
[23:21] <fta> did you put on weight since we last met?
[23:21] <asac> hehe
[23:21] <asac> well. i can hide my weight ;)
[23:21] <asac> but L is sometimes too small
[23:21] <stevel> looking at that photo fta posted, i can't see how fta can be S while asac is XL
[23:21] <stevel> asac: i'll bring a bunch of sizes since i'm going to bring some to the mozilla open house and the add-on-con too... so if it doesn't fit, we can switch to another
[23:21] <asac> stevel: i stopped my breath ;)
[23:21] <stevel> lol
[23:22] <fta> when i buy shirts in the US, it's usually XS or S, for jeans, it's 28
[23:22] <asac> stevel: also its a bit tricky. you dont see my full width ;) i am hidden partly :)
[23:22] <asac> http://www.asoftsite.org/s9y/uploads/UDS-Prague-2008-MozillaTeam.png
[23:22] <fta> lol
[23:22] <asac> in the middle
[23:23] <asac> my guess would be that fta has M and I am L-XL
[23:23] <asac> S seems to be rather smallish ;)
[23:23] <stevel> S is pretty small, these tend to run on the slimmer side
[23:23] <fta> S in europe = XS in the US
[23:24] <fta> everything shifted
[23:24] <asac> hmm. i got XL from mozilla ... those were fine
[23:24] <fta> this summer, I saw 5XL in a shop!
[23:24] <asac> XXXXXL ?
[23:24] <asac> hehe
[23:25] <fta> that's 1 X more for us
[23:25] <asac> yeah. thats most likely what is left when you dont see claire opening the t-shirt box ;)
[23:26] <asac> stevel: when will you be there?
[23:28] <fta> stevel, if you think S is really too small, go for M
[23:28] <asac> its always possible to shrink shirts by doing hot laundry ;)
[23:30] <fta> strange, songbird is not done yet
[23:30] <fta> hmmm
[23:31] <fta> all stuck at the same place
[23:31] <fta> https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/hassium
[23:32] <fta> cdbs bug?
[23:32] <asac> stcuk?
[23:32] <asac> does it deadlock bds?
[23:32] <fta> how could I know?
[23:33] <stevel> asac: i'll be at FOSSCamp friday and saturday, and coming down to UDS on Wednesday
[23:33] <[reed]> jcastro: I didn't know about the open house until like last week! :)
[23:33] <stevel> fta: i'm bringing both and will save one of each for you so you can see which one fits better
[23:33] <fta> cool
[23:33] <[reed]> jcastro: I'm also happy to take Ubuntu folks to Mozilla at other times
[23:33] <[reed]> I have my Mozilla badge, so I can get in 24/7
[23:35] <[reed]> jcastro: I'm also in the middle of semester exams, so I'm a tad busy lately ;)
[23:38] <[reed]> jcastro: and too bad we're not going to be at the Googleplex... it's always fun to go there ;)
[23:38] <jcastro> what do you mean?
[23:38] <jcastro> UDS is at the googleplex
[23:39] <[reed]> it's at the Crittenden Campus, according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSJaunty
[23:39] <[reed]> that's not the "Googleplex"... about a mile from it
[23:40] <jcastro> oh, so not the old sgi buildings then?
[23:41] <[reed]> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=37.42152,-122.084112&daddr=1400+Crittenden+Lane+94043&hl=en&geocode=&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=16&sll=37.424,-122.07665&sspn=0.012048,0.019312&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=16
[23:41] <[reed]> bad directions, but you can see the two places
[23:42] <[reed]> if you scroll left some
[23:42] <[reed]> you can see "Mozilla Foundation"
[23:42] <[reed]> our two buildings are in that complex
[23:42] <jcastro> oh damn, I thought we were in the googleplex
[23:42] <jcastro> I better tell someone lest we confuse people
[23:43] <fta> i so wanted to have a tour of the googleplex :((
[23:43] <[reed]> jcastro: any idea when the schedule will be available at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-jaunty/?
[23:43] <jcastro> ? it's there
[23:43] <jcastro> are you signed in?
[23:44] <[reed]> yes
[23:44] <jcastro> click on the track or a day
[23:44] <[reed]> I can register for tracks I'm interested in
[23:44] <jcastro> should show you
[23:44] <[reed]> but there's no schedule
[23:45] <[reed]> fta: do you see anything?
[23:47] <[reed]> jcastro:
[23:47] <[reed]> http://i37.tinypic.com/2a6tvzr.png
[23:47] <[reed]> that's what I see
[23:47] <jcastro> !
[23:48] <jcastro> hmm, wth
[23:48] <jcastro> maybe it's not public yet?
[23:48] <jcastro> I'll find out
[23:50] <[reed]> and that shouldn't say "Googleplex" now :(
[23:50] <jcastro> yeah I am sending mails to the right guy
[23:51]  * [reed] heads to dinner
[23:52] <fta> [reed], i see the same thing


[09:11] <Duke`> hi
[09:12] <Duke`> I've just upgraded to natty + xorg-edgers, and gdm says I can't run Unity... Moreover, when running Ubuntu-classic, it doesn't use compiz as window-decorator (!), but if I run it manually after being logged, compiz works fine... Any idea why the system thinks I can't run compiz?
[09:23] <bryceh> many ideas
[09:40] <lucazade> hi everybody.. any suggestions for bug 775504 ?
[09:40] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 775504 in uck (and 1 other project) "X server crash while customizing image (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775504
[09:43] <bryceh> lucazade, full backtrace - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Backtracing
[09:43] <lucazade> bryceh ok thanks... i'll look into it!
[17:51] <ScottK> My suggestion was going to be don't customize effects ...