[05:07] <Brainstorm> 🏠 भूकंप! Earthquake! 5.3 Mb tremor, registered by KOERI, with 7 reports, occurred 6 minutes ago (05:01:12 UTC), during daytime, Bāsār, India (27.98, 94.24) ± 63 km likely felt 220 km away (in Dibrugarh…) by 140000 people (www.koeri.boun.edu.tr)
[05:53] <Brainstorm> 📈 Earthquake 5.6 Mwp tremor, registered by 7 agencies, with 8 reports, 1 early, occurred 51 minutes ago (05:01:09 UTC), during daytime, Along, India (28.43, 94.39) ± 2 km, ↓19 km likely felt 280 km away (webservices.ingv.it)
[15:02] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +69 cases, +4528 tests since 23 hours ago


[19:21] <RikMills> If anyone wants to start preping a website release announcement, that would be very helpful :D
[21:46] <mparillo> https://kubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=4850&action=edit Needs sharp-eyed review and the targets do not exist for Download (obviously) but also release notes and upgrade instructions.
[22:36] <mparillo> Created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JammyJellyfish/ReleaseNotes/Kubuntu as a placeholder


[00:08] <Peng> Yikes, importing bzrlib.lazy_import imports 70 modules.
[01:19] <Debolaz> Does bazaar distinguish between author and committer?
[01:20] <jelmer> Debolaz: yes
[01:24] <Debolaz> jelmer: So I could export a patch for someone to commit, and it would automagically credit me as the author even though they committed it? Emphasis on the automagic part here.
[01:25] <jelmer> Debolaz: No, you can use --author to specify a different author when committing somebody elses patch
[01:25] <jelmer> or you can use "bzr bundle" to create a patch that contains the metadata
[01:25] <jelmer> which somebody else can then "bzr pull"
[01:25] <jelmer> or "bzr merge"
[01:53] <rolly> Hm, I'm testing push-and-update and I get an error:
[01:53] <rolly> running "ssh user@example.com:2233 bzr update /var/docs/example.com/trunk/"
[01:53] <rolly> bzr: ERROR: [Error 2] The system cannot find the file specified
[01:54] <rolly> But there's nothing in either the local .bzr.log or the remote .bzr.log
[01:55] <rolly> The command "bzr update /var/docs/example.com/trunk/" works fine, if I run it in my remote shell. Anyone have a clue?
[01:56] <rolly> Oops, maybe I need to install push-and-update on the remote side too
[02:07] <rolly> n/m, there is indeed an error in the .bzr.log
[02:13] <rolly> ah... Windows doesn't have 'ssh'
[04:34] <beuno> jelmer, it shouldn't depend on it
[04:35] <beuno> where are you seing it does?
[04:35] <jelmer> bkc was saying he was worried upgrading bzrtools would cause bzr-xmloutput to break
[04:36] <beuno> ah, well, it shouldn't
[12:08] <muffinresearch_> Can anyone point me in the direction of docs for the nested-trees functionality?
[12:11] <bob2> there's http://bazaar-vcs.org/NestedTreeSupport
[13:51] <brink_> Bazaar retains history when file is renamed.  Is there a way to retain history when a file is split?
[13:58] <bob2> not as yet
[14:58] <lifeless_> don't you hate it when your brane won't quiesce
[16:18] <wingo> greets! is there any way to get bzr.dev via bzr:// ?
[16:19] <Odd_Bloke> wingo: I don't believe so, no.
[16:19] <Odd_Bloke> Why?
[16:20] <wingo> Odd_Bloke: i was just updating a checkout from two or three months ago, and it was running really slowly
[16:23] <luks> that's probably because bzr.dev was upgraded to packs and your branch is in knits
[16:23] <wingo> luks: probably so
[16:23] <wingo> i'm doing a fresh checkout and it's running much faster
[17:56] <ubotu> New bug: #188684 in bzr-webserve "UI Improvement?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188684
[20:14] <alecw1> How do I find out which version of bzr I'm using?
[20:15] <luks> bzr --version
[20:15] <alecw1> luks: thanks.
[22:20] <wjl> I'm switching a lot of my projects from mercurial to bazaar, but I really miss mercurial queues (gives quilt-like behavior, integrated with mercurial). Are there any plans for a mq-like plugin from bazaar? Or is there another way to get this functionality (besides hundreds of feature-branches) using bazaar that anyone can suggestion?
[22:21] <mwhudson> there's 'looms'
[22:21] <mwhudson> but i'm not totally sure what they do or how they work :)
[22:21] <wjl> I saw a mention of that somewhere, but couldn't find a link -- any idea where that is being developed?
[22:22] <mwhudson> no, come to mention it
[22:22] <mwhudson> maybe it's not released yet
[22:22] <mwhudson> lifeless should know
[22:23] <wjl> okay, maybe I'll do a little more searching, and if I don't find anything I'll ask on the mailing list
[22:23] <mwhudson> good idea
[22:23] <wjl> okay, looks like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NoMoreSourcePackages was where I saw it mentioned
[22:23] <wjl> JFYI
[22:24] <wjl> I can't tell from that page if it's just an idea, or a real project
[22:24] <mtaylor> wjl: I believe there is something like quilt coming
[22:24] <mwhudson> it certainly exists
[22:25] <wjl> Right now, to port from Mercurial w/ MQ, I'm using Bazaar + Quilt, but it's a little clunky.
[22:26] <lifeless> yo
[22:27] <wjl> looms sounds like it would be / will be great, I just am not sure where it's development is at
[22:28] <lifeless> its basically a concept for now
[22:28] <lifeless> we're hoping to have it be more in a few weeks
[22:28] <lifeless> but there is other stuff to do first; like network performance
[22:31] <wjl> I'd love to help, once there is a first cut to try -- I have quite a few projects using MQ that would be interesting to try converting at some point
[22:32] <wjl> Anyway, I'll keep using mercurial and bzr+quilt for now, and keep my ears open for loom developments. =)
[22:41] <lifeless> cool
[22:58] <igc> morning
[23:15] <rcohen> for something like quilt, i have written several tools in the past which do basically the same thing and come to the conclusion that patches are a horrible storage format
[23:15] <rcohen> my latest attempt stores whole pre- and post-images and uses 3 way merge
[23:15] <rcohen> which is much easier on the user than having to deal with .rej files
[23:15] <rcohen> http://codeville.org/fst/
[23:17] <rcohen> it's got some very basic integration tools for a VCS, but probably not enough
[23:18] <rcohen> anyway, whoever is working on loom, feel free to steal ideas, code or pick my brain on the subject
[23:18] <fullermd> What you really need to do is embed darcs to handle that stuff   ;)
[23:19] <rcohen> that's certainly one approach
[23:52] <simony> I killed a bzr process and it left the repo locked. Can I safely remove the lock directory?
[23:54] <mwhudson> simony: there's bzr break-lock for that
[23:54] <simony> thanks
[23:55] <simony> break-lock seems to hang as well
[23:55] <simony> at least breaking that didn't leave it locked
[23:58] <mwhudson> strange
[23:59] <mlh> simony: what sort of fs are you on?


[01:37] <epikvision> Good evening everyone from Los Angeles!
[01:38] <UnderControl> Afternoon epikvision
[01:39] <epikvision> hey UnderControl.  How are you doing today?
[01:41] <UnderControl> ...
[03:04] <philballew> epikvision, whats up


[00:33] <micahg> bluesabre: move from project -> distro to move to Ubuntu, also affects distro for a second task
[00:34] <micahg> bluesabre: if zeitgeist isn't normally used, it should be suggests, otherwise, recommends (depends is only if it'll break without it)
[00:34] <bluesabre> micahg, right.  I've added a comment about that in the comments on that bug
[07:38] <Noskcaj> anyone able to help the kubuntu guys with  bug 1172059
[08:53] <knome> was there a specific page where the new release model was described?
[08:53] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCadence/RollingRelease would be meh for the release ntoes
[08:53] <knome> *notes
[08:54] <elfy> I don't think there is any definitve description of it yet - I've not seen anything definitive at all - just a whole lot of we might/could/should do this
[08:55] <knome> o hai elfy :)
[08:57] <elfy> hi knome :)
[09:05] <Noskcaj> knome, to my knowledge they're working it out during S series, nothing confirmed yet. i do believe Lubuntu had a vote on it and were against a rolling release.
[09:32] <knome> people i the team, please review http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=1684&action=edit
[09:32] <knome> (and if you make changes, please click "save draft", not "publish" :)
[09:33] <knome> (actually you shouldn't be able to publish unless you're on the web team, so nvm)
[09:34] <Noskcaj> looking now
[09:36] <Noskcaj> it won't even let me access the page, oh well
[09:36] <elfy> looking now
[09:37] <knome> "pepole in the team" :)
[09:37] <Noskcaj> :(
[09:37] <Noskcaj> i feel excluded ;)
[09:37] <knome> but we should look at that after the release as well
[09:38] <elfy> looks ok to me - I'd maybe change Starting from 13.04 to Starting with 13.04 but that's possibly my old and corrupted use of English
[09:38] <knome> done :P
[09:39] <knome> Noskcaj, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/raring_website/releaseannouncement.png
[09:40] <elfy> not sure about 'too many' the too seems superfluous
[09:40] <knome> where exactly
[09:40] <elfy> Xubuntu 13.04 is mostly a maintenance release, and there aren't too many new features. However, there are some changes, which include:
[09:40] <knome> oh
[09:40] <knome> done
[09:41] <elfy> ok - I could have done it lol
[09:41] <knome> yeah... :)
[09:41] <knome> otoh i have the edit lock
[09:41] <knome> which is not an edit lock
[09:41] <elfy> just never sure bout my old hampshire english
[09:41] <knome> :P
[09:41] <elfy> ok - I couldn't have done it lol
[09:41] <elfy> :p
[09:41] <knome> yup
[09:42] <elfy> of course if I'd read the big red bit that said 'Pasi is ... ' ;)
[09:42] <Noskcaj> one thing, you don't need a dvd or usb stick to install 13.04. the way you've worded that makes it seem like the only options
[09:42] <knome> elfy, yeah, that's the so-called edit lock.. it won't actually stop you from editing it :P
[09:43] <knome> Noskcaj, what are the other options then really?
[09:43] <elfy> well it'll not fit on a cd ... and I'm not sure many will want to get into trying to use grub to boot it
[09:43] <knome> exactly
[09:43] <knome> of course you can do the weirdest things to install it... but if you know how to do that, you don't need us telling what you can use
[09:44] <knome> ...and if you don't, you shouldn't, and we shouldn't encourage it any way
[09:44] <Noskcaj> knome, mini.iso, upgrade, splice, blu-ray, network install, disk image...
[09:44] <knome> the only thing we *might* consider pointing out is the upgrade
[09:44] <knome> we never done that before either though
[09:44] <elfy> which are things most people wouldn't use
[09:45] <knome> and the minimal iso is not even really xubuntu
[09:45] <knome> it's just a general way
[09:45] <Noskcaj> knome, yes, but it's still "installing xubuntu"
[09:45] <Noskcaj> i see your point though.
[09:45] <elfy> you could install xubuntu by installing ubuntu and then installing xubuntu-desktop and then removing ubuntu
[09:46] <Noskcaj> could you change it to a "we reccomend" type thing
[09:46] <Noskcaj> elfy, yes
[09:46] <knome> or by copying the files individually to your HDD...
[09:46] <Noskcaj> what i meant with disk image
[09:47] <elfy> but mostly that page is a 'news' page so it needs to be short and snappy so people read the whole page - very important they get to the end and see the release notes imo
[09:47] <knome> Noskcaj, if we say "we recommend" that clearly says "there are other ways as well", or somebody could even take it as "you could even do that with CD, but we don't tell yo how"
[09:48] <elfy> knome: I think recommend would be ok, given that we say at the bottom the iso won't fit on a CD
[09:48] <Noskcaj> knome, good point
[09:49] <knome> well, we do say "you will need other media *such as*"
[09:49] <elfy> we're in danger of over examining it :)
[09:49] <knome> yes, definitely
[09:49] <knome> i think the current wording is fine
[09:50] <elfy> go for it :)
[09:50] <Noskcaj> yeah, i agree
[09:50] <knome> i just changed the wording in the intro sentence to "such as" as well
[09:52] <Noskcaj> sounds good
[09:54] <elfy> k
[11:04] <ochosi> knome: re:release-announcement: instead of just mentioning greybird, i'd say "and our icon-theme"
[12:03] <knome> ochosi, you can edit it yourself...
[12:38] <elfy> just a small point here - should the settings manager have customise your desktop as it's decription once you open it?
[12:38] <elfy> given that a whole bunch of other things are in there - perhaps settings manager to match it's menu entry
[12:56] <GridCube> !release
[12:56] <GridCube> well, today its release day? correct?
[12:56] <elfy> 25th I thought
[12:57] <GridCube> oh right
[12:57] <GridCube> :)
[12:57] <elfy> I could be wrong
[12:57] <skellat> Nope, 25th
[12:58] <skellat> We do need to edit the factoid to reflect that non-LTS releases are only supported for 9 months starting with 13.04
[12:58] <elfy> yep
[13:50] <knome> the release day is always a thursday
[13:51] <knome> elfy, we'll need to fix the settings manager description for S
[13:52] <GridCube> i never learn the proper correlation of the day names to spanish, :P so i always mess them up
[13:52] <elfy> knome: cool - might even be something I could fix lol
[13:52] <elfy> not even sure why I noticed that
[13:53] <knome> !release | skellat
[13:54] <knome> we should probably do a xubuntu-specific factoid out of that though
[13:54] <knome> !release-#xubuntu | skellat, that good?
[13:55] <knome> err
[13:55] <knome> !release-#xubuntu
[13:55] <knome> that
[13:56] <knome> bbl.
[16:27] <skellat> knome: Looks good
[16:34] <skellat> knome ochosi Is LP Bug #1163504 known to affect us in artwork in any way?
[17:02] <skellat> Alrighty, it looks like xubuntu-artwork is clean of The Forbidden Trademarked Asset...namely the Skype icon.  We're good to go on that account then.
[19:09] <ochosi> skellat: yeah, i tried to avoid that. the only thing we ship is a png-converted version of the firefox and thunderbird icons in 64px
[19:33] <Unit193> knome: That mean you wouldn't really want to publish the other one I drafted?
[21:22] <knome> skellat, oh, ok :)
[21:22] <knome> Unit193, what that? :)
[21:22] <knome> Unit193, the plop article? no, i think it's fine.
[21:22] <knome> Unit193, it's just that i don't think we should be too technical in our release announcement.
[21:23] <Unit193> Was mainly referring to "...and if you don't, you shouldn't, and we shouldn't encourage it any way" and figured I'd ask.  Otherwise I think this close to release, it can be published (or at release, I don't care too much.)
[21:23] <Unit193> knome: And yeah, I agree with that.
[21:23] <knome> ah
[21:24] <knome> well, i mean in the release announcement
[23:53] <alpacaherder> knome: I'm out at the farm but I got this put into the queue as a placeholder regardless of how the leader election turns out: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/client-xubuntu-1305
[23:55]  * alpacaherder disappears to go be with family


  SCIM was better... easier :|
[10:11] <Cantide> aha, making progress
[10:11] <Cantide> does anyone know how i can import my old Thunderbird emails successfully?
[10:11] <Cantide> I tried to copy the files, but it failed :|
[10:23] <nlsthzn> Cantide: don't know Thunderbird but I suspect you should have exported it first so you can now import them :/
[10:24] <Cantide> :<
[10:24] <superfly> Cantide: just copy the whole .mozilla or .thunderbird directory
[10:24] <Cantide> i don't think there was an export option
[10:24] <Cantide> superfly, i tried that, it didn't work
[10:24] <superfly> I did it the other day, worked perfectly
[10:24] <superfly> so yeah, if that doesn't work, I'm afraid I don't know
[10:24] <Cantide> i read a few 'tutorials' online before i installed the new Ubuntu, they all said to just copy the files :|
[10:24] <superfly> ask Google
[10:25] <Cantide> i asked, it tells me the same thing lol
[10:25] <superfly> heh
[10:25] <Cantide> i think it might be because the version i had before was 2.x and the one i have now is 3.x
[10:25] <Cantide> so there must be some difference regarding the storage of the files :|
[10:26] <Cantide> anyway, gotta go shopping :| thanks for the help though
[10:26] <Cantide> i'll just idle here until i get back
[10:26] <Cantide> *AFK*
[11:33] <Cantide> wb nlsthzn
[11:33] <Cantide> :p
[11:36] <nlsthzn> Cantide: thanks... just upgraded my lappies ram to 2gb and installled a new keyboard :) nice to have it running at full power now :)
[11:37] <Cantide> cool :D
[11:37] <Cantide> new keyboard? as in USB keyboard, or the laptop's built in keyboard?
[11:37] <Cantide> built-in *
[11:38] <kbmonkey> 'day all
[11:39] <Cantide> hey kbmonkey
[11:40] <nlsthzn> Cantide: built in keyboard...
[11:40] <Cantide> was it difficult?
[11:40] <Cantide> seems like a mission to me... but i guess i've never done it
[11:41] <nlsthzn> got a manual from the net and once I figured out the bloody zif xocket it was a breeze :)
[11:42] <kbmonkey> more ram is always good :)
[11:43] <nlsthzn> Thing is, I never used the 1GB that was installed fully to be honest... so I don't know if I will really see such a big improvement
[11:43] <Cantide> :P
[11:43] <Cantide> still, rather too much than too little
[11:43] <nlsthzn> overkill is underrated
[11:44] <Cantide> i'm almost ready to give up on my mail and cut it as a loss lol
[11:44] <Cantide> which hex editors are good for Ubuntu ?
[11:44]  * nlsthzn has no knowledge of the arcane arts
[11:44] <kbmonkey> ram is good for when you run many VM's and such :)
[11:45] <kbmonkey> I like octeta hex editor
[11:45] <kbmonkey> *okteta
[11:45] <kbmonkey> its kde based though
[11:45] <nlsthzn> true... I refrained from virtualbox due to the one gig problem... now I can mini distro hop :D
[11:46] <Cantide> hmm
[11:46] <Cantide> maybe i'll settle for gHex then :|
[11:53] <Cantide> i might just try to rip the headers from a Thunderbird 3.x mail file and superimpose it on my 2.x mail files
[11:55] <kbmonkey> or try hexer, its a vi-like hex editor :)
[11:58] <drubin> nlsthzn: where is your irc bouncer located? never seen an ip starting with a single digit :)
[11:58] <nlsthzn> drubin: english please :p
[11:59] <drubin> nlsthzn: what country is your quassel hosted in
[12:00] <nlsthzn> drubin: I have no idea... afaik I am just connecting to irc.freenode.com... I am in the UAE... is there a command or something I can use to give you more info?
[12:00] <nlsthzn> freenode.net
[12:00] <drubin> nlsthzn: Nah don't worry :)
[12:01] <Cantide> TOR works pretty well as a proxy .-.
[12:01] <Cantide> but sloooow for anything that's bandwidth intensive :|
[12:01] <nlsthzn> I am not running any proxies currently...
[12:08] <kbmonkey> my IP was banned from freenode last week, policy against running tor relays :p
[12:11] <Cantide> hehe
[18:01] <Kilos> evening all
[18:01] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[18:01]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[18:02] <nlsthzn> Go BULLE!
[18:02] <nlsthzn> erm... hi all :p
[18:02] <Kilos> hiya nlsthzn
[18:02] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee for all
[18:02] <Maaz> Sure thing Kilos... Hey guy's!!  Bring your mugs.  :P
[18:07]  * nlsthzn spies grammar nazi :p
[18:09] <Cantide> live score over supersport.co.za sucks :(
[18:09] <nlsthzn> stream radio...
[18:11] <Kilos> aw is guys spelt wrong
[18:12] <Kilos> nlsthzn, did you watch the sharks and cheetahs
[18:12] <nlsthzn> well... listened to the radio and watched a slide show :p
[18:13] <Kilos> ah
[18:13] <nlsthzn> most of it anycase
[18:14] <Cantide> Can Jantjies kick?
[18:14] <Kilos> ?
[18:14] <Cantide> he seems to have missed his kicks in this game...
[18:15] <Kilos> can anyone tell me why sudo apt-get update and then upgrade doesnt upgrade everything
[18:15] <Kilos> if you go to synaptic afterwards there is lots that still needs updating
[18:16] <nlsthzn> it should update all...
[18:17] <nlsthzn> I sometimes do aptitude after apt-get to make sure :D
[18:17] <linuxboy> Kilos: upgrade will upgrade packages that don't pull in new packages
[18:18] <Kilos> i had windows closing on their own yesterday and spent the day in synaptic reinstalling all gnome and audacious and some more and now all is good here
[18:18] <linuxboy> Kilos: ie, linux-kernel may depend on 'linux-kernel-2.6.24', after an upgrade it needs 'linux-kernel-2.6.25'. An 'apt-get upgrade' won't pull that new package in, and won't upgrade teh first package because of that
[18:18] <linuxboy> Kilos: apt-get dist-upgrade will however pull that new package in for you
[18:19] <Kilos> ah ty very much
[18:22] <Kilos> there are also lots of lib files that arent complete
[18:24] <Kilos> is there perhaps a command that will update everything?
[18:24] <linuxboy> apt-get dist-upgrade
[18:25] <Kilos> i mean even of the apps installed as well
[18:26] <Kilos> i copied /var/cache/apt/archives then did the update upgrade
[18:26] <linuxboy> it will upgrade any package that you have where there is a newer version, including teh packages that depends on a new package that isn't installed
[18:26] <Kilos> thanks linuxboy that will save me hours next time
[18:26] <linuxboy> also, why are you copying /var/cache/apt/archives?
[18:27] <Kilos> i saved it on an external  and then did a clean install
[18:27] <linuxboy> oh
[18:27] <Kilos> all about saving data
[18:27] <linuxboy> you shouldn't do that
[18:27] <Kilos> oh
[18:27] <linuxboy> you should backup /etc/apt/sources.list
[18:28] <linuxboy> oh wait
[18:28] <linuxboy> sorry
[18:28] <linuxboy> thats fine
[18:28] <Kilos> hehe whats fine?
[18:28] <linuxboy> backing up /var/cache/apt/archives if you want to save bandwidth
[18:30] <Kilos> so its sudo backup /var/cache/apt/archives /media/backup
[18:30] <linuxboy> there is no command called backup
[18:30] <linuxboy> also, why are you bothering? to save bandwidth?
[18:30] <Kilos> i have the external split in backup and storage
[18:30] <Kilos> yip bandwidth kills me
[18:30] <linuxboy> get uncapped
[18:31] <Kilos> cant
[18:31] <linuxboy> why?
[18:31] <Kilos> i live by sister
[18:31] <Kilos> and they dont wanna pay a big fone bill
[18:31] <linuxboy> oh, you're on 3G?
[18:31] <Kilos> they have a kinda pay as you go account
[18:31] <Kilos> yip
[18:32] <linuxboy> spend that money on an adsl line :P
[18:33] <Kilos> just the fone account is a few hundred a month
[18:33] <Kilos> then still adsl
[18:33] <linuxboy> how much do you pay on 3G/
[18:33] <Kilos> at times i use less than 500m data a month
[18:34] <linuxboy> for about R600 I'm sure you can get uncapped
[18:34] <Kilos> i rely on family to give what and when they can
[18:34] <Cantide> i'm using the Cell C data sim
[18:34] <linuxboy> ah
[18:35] <Kilos> 600m airtime is R189
[18:35] <Cantide> works out cheap per gb ( not cheaper than ADSL, but I don't have a land line )
[18:35] <Kilos> hehe at times i only have pidgin open
[18:36] <Kilos> and better times pidgin and xchat
[18:36] <Cantide> i'm the same, but i'm using more this month -.-v
[18:36] <Kilos> anyway we do what we can
[18:37] <Cantide> yeah
[18:37] <Kilos> i just use lots when i gotta do a clean install
[18:37] <Cantide> same, i did a clean install on Friday
[18:37] <Kilos> hehe
[18:37] <Kilos> i had no choice
[18:37] <Cantide> and i decided not to try and install my old debs, because there's no point in installing a new OS, but using old apps :|
[18:38] <Kilos> got a bug that killed mbr on 2 drives
[18:38] <Cantide> :o
[18:38] <Cantide> that's nasty
[18:38] <Kilos> took weeks to fix it
[18:38] <Kilos> 80g drive would only take xp at times
[18:39] <Kilos> refused all ubuntu releases
[18:39] <Kilos> but now i got ubuntu only from a zeroed drive
[18:39] <Kilos> so no winsucks anywhere
[18:40] <Cantide> nice... i was too chicken to take the plunge
[18:40] <Kilos> hehe
[18:40] <Cantide> so i'm dual booting again, but win 7 and 10.10 this time
[18:40] <Cantide> as opposed to XP and 9.10 that i had before :p
[18:40] <Kilos> i havent use ms for a year but tried everything to fix the mbr
[18:40] <Cantide> which version of Ubuntu do you have?
[18:41] <Kilos> i am using karmic now . i had 10.10 but thats when i crashed and was scared to try it again  as the drive only took 9.10
[18:42] <Cantide> :o
[18:42] <Cantide> don't say things like that :D
[18:42] <Kilos> maybe there a prob with my 10.10 cd
[18:42] <Cantide> i've only been using 10.10 for a day lol
[18:42] <Kilos> have ordered another
[18:42] <Kilos> maverick is great
[18:42] <Kilos> i loved it
[18:42] <Cantide> how long did you use it before it crashed?
[18:43] <Kilos> until 2 weeks ago
[18:43] <Cantide> Lions have almost caught up to the bulls :o
[18:43] <Kilos> from 2 weeks after it was released i think
[18:43] <Kilos> or 3
[18:43] <Cantide> oh, quite long '<
[18:43] <Kilos> yeah its great
[18:44] <Kilos> i like everything on the left
[18:44] <Kilos> took some getting used to
[18:44] <Kilos> then had to learn again after going back to karmic
[18:44] <Cantide> everything on the left?
[18:44] <Kilos> the close down x
[18:45] <Kilos> etc
[18:45] <Cantide> aha
[18:45] <Kilos> hehe
[18:45] <Cantide> that was only in one theme, i've already changed it :p
[18:45] <Kilos> i got used to it like that and enjoyed it
[18:47] <Cantide> :)
[18:47] <Cantide> i guess i never gave it a chance
[18:48] <Kilos> yeah it takes a while but if you dual booting windows it will mess with your head
[18:50] <Cantide> i barely ever use Windows...
[18:51] <Cantide> maybe once a week to play a game or something
[18:51] <Kilos> you will find you need to install aptitude and gdebi and gedit separately i think
[18:51] <Kilos> they arent part of the install as they were before
[18:52] <Cantide> gedit is here
[18:52] <Cantide> i use it a lot for php, so i made sure of that :D
[18:53] <Kilos> lol
[18:53] <Kilos> also it wants to install everything from software centre
[18:54] <Cantide> I want the Lions to win for a change, but it'll mess with my superbru predictions :-S
[18:54] <Kilos> hehe
[18:54] <Cantide> yeah, i used to software center a lot today and it worked well for me
[18:54] <Kilos> time is gone
[18:54] <Cantide> oh
[18:54] <Kilos> 15 secs
[18:54] <Cantide> the 'live' score is clearly not live
[18:54] <Cantide> what's the score?
[18:54] <Kilos> they lost
[18:54] <Cantide> 20 - 24 ?
[18:55] <Kilos> 20/24
[18:55] <Cantide> ah well, decent prediction then :D
[18:55] <Kilos> game over
[18:55] <Cantide> but that's impressive for the Lions
[18:55] <Cantide> especially the 2nd half
[18:55] <Kilos> yes they tried hard second half
[18:55] <Cantide> there is hope for them yet :)
[18:57] <Kilos> i prefer gdebi to software centre
[18:58] <Kilos> but thats me
[18:58] <Kilos> and synaptic of course
[18:58] <Cantide> i usually use the terminal to install stuff... not sure wht
[18:58] <Cantide> why *
[18:58] <Kilos> ah
[18:58] <Cantide> but lately i've been using software centre
[18:59] <Kilos> i been doing that lots lately too
[18:59] <Cantide> grr, software center * :@
[18:59] <Kilos> n9o its too slow and you dont see whats happening
[19:00] <Cantide> what, software center?
[19:00] <Kilos> yeah
[19:00] <Cantide> true, but it is simplier
[19:00] <Kilos> hehe
[19:00] <Cantide> sometimes the terminal drives me crazy - if i'm lacking dependencies
[19:00] <Cantide> and then i don't know the package names etc.
[19:01] <Kilos> thats why i like synaptic and gdebi
[19:01] <Cantide> i'd still prefer to download a deb of each application, and store it somewhere, but they're always being updated :|
[19:01] <Kilos> in synaptic it sorts all dependancies for you
[19:02] <Kilos> they are all in /var/cache/apt/archives
[19:03] <Cantide> aha
[19:03] <Cantide> hence your backing up of that folder
[19:03] <Kilos> yip
[19:03] <Kilos> inetpro taught me that
[19:03] <Kilos> save like 300m data on a clean install  of an old release
[19:06] <Cantide> '<
[19:06] <Cantide> sleep time :|
[19:06] <Cantide> good night -.-
[19:29] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:29] <Kilos> see ya morrow time


[00:25] <BenC> stgraber: how do I check the test results?
[00:33] <stgraber> BenC: no idea, in my case the build died right after the failure. If you actually get debuild to succeed, then it didn't fail for you
[00:35] <BenC> stgraber: it failed in the tests, but I'm trying to find the output of those failures and it isn't very easy
[00:36] <bretth> how do i make an "applet" that runs in the ubuntu "system-tray" ?
[00:38] <TheMuso> bretth: YOu want to create an indicator. Best you ask on #ubuntu-app-devel, I am pretty sure someone in there can point you to indicator documentation.
[00:38] <bretth> TheMuso, thanks!
[00:41] <Diopter> Is there an easier way to add a custom .udeb to an initrd.gz than rebuilding the debian-installer?
[02:19] <bretth> what's the best way from python for my script to know that it is running in Ubuntu with Unity?
[02:20] <bretth> (my script needs to support multiple desktops, Gnome3, Cinnamon, etc)
[02:21] <bretth> i was thinking that "try: import appindicator" is one way, but kind of looks like a hack.
[02:29] <TheMuso> bretth: I believe jockey does something similar to check environment. Check the jockey source package from Ubuntu, quantal should do, but precise would be a better option, as jockey has changed somewhat so far as I understand things...
[02:29] <TheMuso> bretth: Jockey also has multiple frontends for GTK and KDE.
[02:31] <RAOF> @pilot in
[02:32] <bretth> TheMuso, thanks, another question, how long will Ubuntu support pygtk (gtk2)? is it safe to write my app using pygtk?
[02:52] <TheMuso> bretth: If you are supporting precise or later, I strongly suggest you use Gtk2 via GObject introspection.
[02:52] <TheMuso> Or even better, use GTK3.
[02:52] <bretth> i need to also support Ubuntu 10.10
[02:52] <TheMuso> Pygtk2 is not supported upstream really, so far as I know, if anything, they want it gone.
[02:53] <TheMuso> Ah ok, then I think pygtk2 is your best bet then.
[02:53] <micahg> bretth: Ubuntu 10.10 is no longer supported, why would you want to support it?
[02:53] <bretth> micahg, its not my decision
[02:54] <micahg> bretth: 10.04 is supported on the desktop for another 9 months
[02:54] <bretth> 10.04 is Unity?
[02:55] <micahg> bretth: no, it's pre unity, but even in precise, you don't have to use Unity, there are many other desktop environments
[02:56] <bretth> micahg, seems that must use Unity for appindicator.
[02:56] <JontheEchidna> gnome2 had indicator-applet, iirc
[02:56] <infinity> And indicators are used in other DEs as well.
[02:56] <micahg> bretth: no, I don't think that's true, there are indicators in xubntu
[02:56] <infinity> They're there by default on Xubuntu.
[02:56] <micahg> *Xubuntu
[02:57] <infinity> Kubuntu may also do something with them, but I don't remember.
[02:57] <bretth> oh good, that makes it easier to support Xubuntu.
[02:57] <JontheEchidna> the KDE panel tray supports anything conforming to the indicator spec
[02:58] <bretth> i already have a applet designed for KDE
[02:58] <JontheEchidna> oh yeah, you were in #kde-devel last night I think
[02:58] <bretth> yep, that was me.
[02:59] <bretth> so is Wayland making it into the next Ubuntu?
[03:00] <JontheEchidna> I don't think that'll happen for a while. *Maybe* there will be a tech demo available for installation in the archives for the next Ubuntu.
[03:00] <bretth> i have python wrappers for wayland working
[03:00] <bretth> works with Python2, Python3, and PyPy
[03:00] <bretth> http://code.google.com/p/rpythonic/source/browse/examples/wayland-server-eventloop.py
[03:01] <bretth> http://code.google.com/p/rpythonic/source/browse/examples/wayland_server/__init__.py
[03:01] <JontheEchidna> !info weston quantal
[03:29] <scientes> JontheEchidna, does it work with gtk now?
[03:33] <bretth> scientes, i saw some screen shots of gtk on wayland.
[03:33] <scientes> yes yes i've used it myself
[03:33] <scientes> but i mean in ubuntu
[03:33] <scientes> without building anything
[04:21] <vibhav> cjwatson: ping
[04:56] <pitti> Good morning
[05:01] <ScottK> Good morning pitti.
[05:02] <ScottK> pitti: Just so someone else other than me knows the status: We've had Bug #1024016  and a fair number of duplicates pile up yesterday and tonight.  I think I just uploaded the final bit of fixing it.
[05:04] <ScottK> Made the publisher run by a few seconds, so we should see goodness in half an hour.
[05:07] <ScottK> I grabbed the .debs from LP and confirmed it's really, really fixed now.
[05:07] <pitti> ah, seems I just ran into this during daily dist-upgrade; thanks!
[05:08] <ScottK> You can either grab the new versions of whatever you have installed from python3-defaults or wait a bit I guess.
[07:02] <dholbach> good morning
[08:31] <RAOF> @pilot out
[08:34]  * dholbach hugs RAOF
[08:34] <dholbach> hum, is anyone else having an issue with python3-minimal installation in quantal?
[08:34] <RAOF> Morning dholbach :)
[08:34] <dholbach> hey :)
[08:35] <RAOF> dholbach: That should be fixed in python3 3.2.3-3ubuntu1
[08:35] <RAOF> You're seeing bug #1024016
[08:36] <dholbach> ok, manually downloading the packages and installing them with dpkg -i fixed it
[08:36] <dholbach> but apt-get install -f didn't
[08:45] <jamespage> any perl guru's around? I need some help with bug 1022385 - seen this a few times now and not really sure what it points to
[08:47] <cjwatson> the exit code may be unrelated to the noise from debconf, since none of that noise ought to be fatal
[08:47] <cjwatson> 128 is an unlikely exit code for a debconf-related problem; but you can try with DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer to establish that more certainly
[08:48] <cjwatson> I think that noise basically means that the user disconnected from debconf, maybe by closing a dialog box or something
[08:50] <rbasak> Thanks. I'd left the bug there because I wondered if anyone else knew what was going on
[08:51] <jamespage> rbasak, I found another 128 code with bacula with similar symptoms hence my question - cjwatson - OK I'll get the reported to try that then
[08:51] <jamespage> ta
[08:51] <jamespage> cjwatson, does exit code 128 have any specific meaning?
[08:51] <jamespage> (and where would I look for that sort of thing)
[08:53] <cjwatson> There's no single place you can look.  Exit codes are very application-specific.
[08:56] <cjwatson> I can't think of any specific meaning for 128 that might have broad applicability.
[09:05] <cjwatson> hggdh: Don't suppose you had any luck getting me that debug output?
[09:06] <cjwatson> hggdh: There seems to be some in https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/job/quantal-desktop-i386_default/69/, but it doesn't contain the bits I expected ...
[09:30] <gema> cjwatson: I am executing another job, on a particular node and will connect to the VM whenever it's done installing
[09:30] <gema> cjwatson: I should be able to get you some logs out of it
[09:31] <cjwatson> OK, let's hope it actually fails
[09:31] <gema> cjwatson: indeed
[09:31] <cjwatson> Currently uploading ubiquity 2.11.14 with an utter-guesswork possible fix (I think it's a long shot but you never know)
[09:32] <gema> cjwatson: will I be able to connect to the VM if it never finishes installing?
[09:32] <cjwatson> I don't know
[09:32] <cjwatson> That all sounds rather specific to your test environment, and I'm not familiar with it
[09:33] <gema> cjwatson: I am learnin as I go, but the installer just said that it installed successfully :/
[09:35] <cjwatson> Try again
[09:35] <gema> ack
[09:36] <cjwatson> It's racy - even on jenkins, which seems to reproduce this more frequently than any other environment (maybe just because it does lots of runs), it only happens sometimes
[09:36] <gema> ok
[09:36] <cjwatson> I think only one of last night's runs failed
[09:36] <cjwatson> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/job/quantal-desktop-i386_encryptedhome/46/artifact/46/test-results/d-i-debug.log exists but is empty :-(
[09:37] <gema> cjwatson: do you know roughly at which point in the installation this happens?
[09:37] <cjwatson> hggdh: Whatever you did in https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/job/quantal-desktop-i386_encryptedhome/46/ seems to have made the d-i-syslog useless too
[09:37] <cjwatson> gema: "Configuring hardware"
[09:37] <cjwatson> Fairly near the end
[09:37] <cjwatson> hggdh: That seems to be more like casper.log or something ...
[09:38] <gema> cjwatson: I tried on one of my test machines the other day and it got stuck on the camera screen to never come back
[09:38] <cjwatson> gema: Whatever that is (a gstreamer bug, I guess), it's unrelated
[09:39] <gema> cjwatson: ack
[09:55] <dholbach> didrocks, can you join #ubuntu-arb again? :-D
[09:57] <didrocks> dholbach: yeah, coming. Should really adjust my autojoin :)
[09:57] <dholbach> :)
[10:12] <toabctl> i have a dependency problem with python3 on quantal: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1089585/
[10:14] <seb128> could somebody set https://code.launchpad.net/~lars.duesing/ubuntu/precise/aiccu/aiccu-upstart-server-patch-precise/+merge/111610 as merged?
[10:15] <seb128> the fix got uploaded but the merge request was targetting precise and not precise-proposed
[10:18] <pitti> seb128: done
[10:21] <seb128> pitti, danke
[11:56] <hggdh> cjwatson: all I did was pass to the kernel debug-ubiquity
[11:58] <hggdh> cjwatson: and the debug log seems to be empty. I tried /var/log/debug as I was told, and /var/log/installer/debug, as the wiki says
[11:58] <pitti> there, StacktraceSource.txt is being produced again: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/110026354/StacktraceSource.txt
[11:59] <seb128> cjwatson, green jenkins on both amd64 and i386, either we got lucky or you fixed the bug ;-)
[12:04] <cjwatson> seb128: we got lucky
[12:04] <cjwatson> I suspect
[12:04] <cjwatson> seb128: oh, do you mean with .14?
[12:06] <cjwatson> seb128: there've not been any tests with the latest build yet, so really can't say anything
[12:06] <seb128> cjwatson, no, 13.1 for both
[12:06] <cjwatson> hggdh: I did tell you /var/log/installer/debug, not /var/log/debug (which would be wrong)
[12:06] <seb128> cjwatson, I though .1 was your recent upload
[12:07] <seb128> cjwatson, .14 is tomorrow ;-)
[12:07] <seb128> cjwatson, well, anyway, let's see
[12:31] <pitti> seb128: retracers (hopefully) fixed again, after the two recent cron mails
[12:31] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[12:31] <seb128> pitti, what was the issue on those?
[12:32] <pitti> seb128: the first one was a bug when a source file had non-ascii characters, the retracer is running under C locale
[12:32] <pitti> seb128: the second just me picking the wrong cache dir when running apport-retrace manually
[12:32] <seb128> did I say how much I hate encodings? ;-)
[12:32] <pitti> seb128: it got exposed because StacktraceSource.txt is back on now
[12:33] <seb128> nice to see those back, thanks for that
[12:33] <pitti> seb128: yeah; one of these years, C and all other non-UTF-8 encodings just belong abolished..
[12:33] <seb128> it's handy to have them
[12:33] <cjwatson> seb128: yeah, everyone should speak ASCII-only languages
[12:33] <cjwatson> (shame English doesn't qualify ...)
[12:33] <seb128> english is not ascii only?
[12:33] <cjwatson> "naïve"
[12:34] <pitti> yeah, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/110026354/StacktraceSource.txt looks quite nice
[12:34] <seb128> you stole that to us, didn't you? ;-)
[12:34] <cjwatson> "fête" - various odds and ends like that
[12:34] <pitti> ("from"?)
[12:34] <cjwatson> and yeah, mostly French imports :)
[12:35] <cjwatson> actually these days it's mostly legit to drop the diacritics but anyway
[12:35] <pitti> cjwatson: don't forget about the ☺
[12:36]  * pitti imagines Kanji or Mandarin in ASCII art
[12:40] <seb128> pitti, Ṳßυᾔ⊥υ
[12:40] <seb128> pitti, http://fsymbols.com/generators/encool/ does that sort of stuff ;-)
[12:41] <seb128> you type ascii chars and it gives you a fancy similar looking one made from unicode chars
[12:41] <pitti> ¡ʎuunɟ sʞooן ʇɐɥʇ
[12:41] <seb128> ∂ε♭☤αη
[12:41] <pitti> oops, /me turns his monitor back up
[12:41] <seb128> lol
[12:41] <pitti> . o O { clearly Friday afternoon.. }
[12:41] <seb128> pitti, how did you do that? ;-)
[12:42] <pitti> seb128: I turned my monitor upside down
[12:42] <seb128> hehe
[12:42] <pitti> nah, http://www.sevenwires.com/play/UpsideDownLetters.html
[12:42] <seb128> ok, we just traded fun websites then :p
[12:42] <seb128> ⊥♄@☂❝ṧ ηḯ¢ε
[12:42] <seb128> it's friday indeed ;-)
[13:04] <ev> mpt: looking at the several week view of "average crashes per day." Rather unsurprisingly, theres a bump on the weekends.
[13:05] <zul> didrocks: ping
[13:05] <didrocks> zul: pong
[13:05] <mpt> ev, which isn't what we want ... You shouldn't be able to improve the stats by making Ubuntu so that people don't want to use it
[13:05] <zul> didrocks: can you have a look at the python-quantumclient MIR (LP: #1021822)
[13:07] <didrocks> zul: what is depending on it?
[13:07] <zul> didrocks: new nova build depends
[13:07] <didrocks> zul: can you please state that in the MIR?
[13:07] <ev> mpt: hmm? In that because it doesn't factor in the total usage it's skewed on the weekends? Thus if we make people use Ubuntu for shorter periods of times the graph will look better, but the experience will still be poor?
[13:08] <zul> didrocks: done
[13:08] <didrocks> zul: all build-deps are not in main
[13:09] <didrocks> zul: python-nosexcover is not for instance
[13:09] <zul> didrocks: crap
[13:09] <didrocks> zul: can you please check it again? the stenza in the MIR is not just for copy and paste :)
[13:10] <didrocks> zul: please reassign once sorted out :)
[13:12] <mdeslaur> barry: is there a bug open for the uninstallable python 3 in quantal?
[13:13] <cjwatson> can't be entirely uninstallable, livefs builds haven't broken
[13:13] <cjwatson> (I haven't looked at it at all mind you and won't, enough on my plate)
[13:14] <ogasawara> @pilot in
[13:16] <mdeslaur> dobey: did you figure out your python3 install issue? is there a bug open?
[13:17] <dobey> mdeslaur: i haven't figured it out, no. there is a bug with many dupes afaik. let me see if i can find the #
[13:17] <dobey> mdeslaur: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python3-defaults/+bug/1024016 i think
[13:19] <mdeslaur> dobey: ah, yes, that's the one...thanks
[13:21] <mdeslaur> dobey: ah, manually upgrading python3 as suggested at the end just worked for me
[13:25] <dobey> yeah i just had to manually install the 3ubuntu1 version, then do -f install
[13:32] <pitti> mvo: hey Michael, how are you?
[13:32] <seb128> mvo, aptdaemon SRU veri^W forget about that you did it :p
[13:32] <seb128> ;-)
[13:32] <mvo> hey pitti, good, thanks! how are you (phonecall though right now)
[13:33] <pitti> mvo: good, thanks! currently investigating some auto-upgrade-tester failures
[13:37] <cr3> ogra_: hi there, roadmr and I need your assistance to close bug #245488 by removing the ol' hwdb-client package from universe :)
[13:37] <mvo> pitti: aha, precise->quantal? or lucid->precise?
[13:37] <pitti> mvo: lucid->precise, but both really
[13:37] <ogra_> cr3, yeah, i saw the bugmail, why the heck is that still there ?
[13:38] <pitti> mvo: WDYT about http://paste.ubuntu.com/1089849/ ?
[13:38] <cr3> ogra_: no clue but, instead of just marking the bug as invalid, we'd like to take this opportunity to clean the archive a bit
[13:38] <ogra_> cr3, and that bug is obviously invalid now
[13:38] <ogra_> ah
[13:39] <cr3> ogra_: I'm using the bug as a nagging reminder to do things right :)
[13:39] <ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Removing_Packages
[13:39] <pitti> mvo: I added a reproducer and analysis to bug 1024346 and verified that it works fine now
[13:41] <cr3> ogra_, roadmr: 23 bugs for hwdb-client in ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hwdb-client
[13:41] <cr3> ogra_: thanks for the link, we'll follow the process
[13:41] <ogra_> cr3, just doing so
[13:42] <cr3> ogra_: sweet, thanks!
[13:42] <cjwatson> cr3: does checkbox still have any file overlaps with hwdb-client?
[13:42] <roadmr> cr3: I got rid of all the hwtest bugs, didn't touch hwdb-client
[13:44] <cr3> cjwatson: nope, hwdb-client was there such a long time ago, it was even renamed to hwtest before being finally renamed to checkbox
[13:44] <ogra_> right
[13:44] <cr3> ogra_: the good ol' days :)
[13:44] <cjwatson> cr3: since it is still in the archive, if there were any file overlaps then they can't be excused by intermediate renamings
[13:44] <cjwatson> so is the answer yes or no? :)
[13:45] <ogra_> cjwatson, i changed the bug above into a removal bug for hwdb.-client
[13:45] <cjwatson> I know, but that doesn't answer my question either
[13:45] <cr3> roadmr: when did we remove the transitional package for hwtest -> checkbox? is it still in precise?
[13:45] <roadmr> cr3: nope, last release it shows for is oneiric
[13:46] <ogra_> how could there be file overlaps if one is in universe and the other is in main
[13:46] <cjwatson> ogra_: that said, I'm confused, hwdb-client is not in quantal
[13:46] <ogra_> even shipped on the cd
[13:46] <cjwatson> ogra_: overlaps in their *contents*
[13:46] <roadmr> cr3: removed since 2012-02-01
[13:46] <cjwatson> universe/main> totally irrelevant
[13:46] <cjwatson> right, I removed hwdb-client from intrepid in 2008.  I don't know why you're asking for it to be removed now :)
[13:47] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hwdb-client/+publishinghistory
[13:47]  * ogra_ doesnt get that, if checkbox works standalone without hwdb-client installed, where should be file overlaps ?
[13:47] <cjwatson> sigh
[13:47] <cjwatson> you know what replaces: is for, right?
[13:47] <ogra_> yes
[13:47] <cjwatson> among other things, it's for when a package ships a file previously shipped by another package
[13:47] <roadmr> I looked for hwdb-client and I found it in universe: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/h/hwdb-client/
[13:47] <ogra_> yes
[13:47] <cr3> cjwatson: I just checked the packages in the archive and there are no overlaps with any files in checkbox
[13:47] <ogra_> roadmr, thats old stuff
[13:48] <cjwatson> if checkbox had shipped a file that hwdb-client previously shipped, then it ought to have had a Replaces header, despite hwtest coming in between
[13:48] <ogra_> cjwatson, i still dont get how that would be relevant for the removal of hwdb-client
[13:48] <cr3> ogra_: it might've been possible that both hwdb-client and checkbox installed /usr/bin/foo, for example. I think that's what we're looking for
[13:48] <cjwatson> it's not particularly, it's just that sometimes people think that removing the old package is good enough in such cases, and it isn't
[13:48] <roadmr> oh, foo
[13:48] <cjwatson> I was checking that due diligence had been done
[13:48] <ogra_> ah, ok
[13:48] <cr3> cjwatson: hwtest, that followed hwdb-client, had a Replaces header
[13:49] <cr3> cjwatson: err, checkbox has a Replaces header for hwtest, that followed hwdb-client
[13:49] <cjwatson> understood but not relevant :)
[13:49] <hggdh> cjwatson: were you talking (when you said the ubiquity syslog was useless) about the 'not copying..." etc?
[13:49] <cjwatson> in general we cannot assume that users have traced through every step in our package renamings
[13:49] <cjwatson> anyway, this is moot, because hwdb-client was gone in intrepid and you've said that there are no file overlaps
[13:49] <cjwatson> hggdh: in the URL I gave, it's not even a ubiquity syslog.  it stops at the end of casper.
[13:50] <ev> mpt: ah, excellent. That's much better than dealing with it off a subpage
[13:50] <pitti> gema, mvo: do you know whether the jenkins upgrade tests use the branch or the package for auto-upgrade-testing?
[13:51] <pitti> gema, mvo: i. e. I hope we don't need to SRU the latest changes just to fix the tests
[13:51] <gema> pitti: I don't really know
[13:52] <hggdh> cjwatson: yes, this build failed -- we got an error relating to hardware, and the install got stuck on a pop-up, and was eventually canceled on timeout
[13:56] <mvo> pitti: I'm pretty sure it uses the package
[13:56] <pitti> mvo: gah
[13:56] <pitti> mvo: anyway, do you think the xvfb-run patch is appropriate?
[13:57] <cjwatson> hggdh: ok
[14:13] <pitti> ScottK: thanks for fixing the py3 mess!
[14:14] <mvo> pitti: yeah, I think that is a excellent idea
[14:14] <pitti> mvo: ok, thanks; committing that and uplaoding to quantal, so that at least teh precise->quantal tests should have this fixed
[14:14] <ScottK> pitti: Thanks.  It was my sync that caused it, so I think it was mine to fix.
[14:15] <mvo> pitti: cool, thanks
[15:04] <jono> seb128, are you aware of compiz constantly restarting when using Libreoffice?
[15:04] <seb128> jono, no
[15:05] <seb128> jono, seems like a segfault, what Ubuntu version, is apport triggering?
[15:05] <jono> seb128, I have been working on a presentation and it keeps restarting for me
[15:05] <jono> apport isnt triggering
[15:05] <jono> I am on Quantal
[15:05] <seb128> jono, tail /var/log/apport.log?
[15:06] <jono> seb128, no output
[15:07] <seb128> jono, dmesg | grep compiz ?
[15:09] <jono> seb128, [73664.275452] compiz[1828]: segfault at 64 ip b45b0677 sp bfac8f90 error 4 in libunityshell.so (deleted)[b4401000+307000]
[15:10] <seb128> jono, there you go
[15:10] <seb128> jono, sudo service apport start force_start=1
[15:10] <seb128> jono, get the issue
[15:10] <seb128> jono, report the bug
[15:10] <jono> start: Job is already running: apport
[15:11] <seb128> jono, ok, not sure why apport is not working then
[15:11] <seb128> jono, nothing in /var/crash ?
[15:12] <jono> seb128, bunch of things in there
[15:12] <seb128> jono, compiz one?
[15:13] <seb128> jono, you might want to wipe them all, trigger the bug and see if a compiz one gets written
[15:13] <seb128> doko, hey, is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdb/+bug/1006860 good to upload or do you want to review,handle it?
[15:15] <doko> seb128, won't have time for it. a NULL check doesn't sound bad. please could you keep the report open?
[15:15] <seb128> doko, is it fine if I upload? it's blocking the dx guys in some of the debugging they do
[15:29] <doko> chrisccoulson, ping
[15:30] <seb128> doko, probably leave some context, he's off for 2 weeks on paternity leave
[15:30] <seb128> doko, he might look at IRC every now and then but is not working
[15:46] <jono> seb128, just retriggered the bug, no apport crash
[15:46] <jono> seb128, sorry for the delay, was on a call
[15:46] <seb128> jono, nothing in /var/log/apport.log?
[15:47] <jono> seb128, nope
[15:48] <seb128> jono, do you have a ~/.apport-ignore.xml?
[15:48] <jono> seb128, yep
[15:48] <seb128> jono, does it contain something saying to ignore compiz issues?
[15:48] <jono>  <ignore mtime="1340068323" program="/usr/share/accomplishments/scripts/ubuntu-community/infrastructure/canonical-contributor.py"/>
[15:48] <jono> nope
[15:49] <seb128> :-(
[15:49] <seb128> you would need pitti then, not sure why apport doesn't work
[15:49] <seb128> but he called it a week already I think
[15:49] <jono> thanks seb128
[15:49] <seb128> jono, I get you are down to "use gdb"
[15:49] <seb128> if you want a stacktrace
[15:50] <jono> I will see if this is still happening
[15:50] <jono> seb128, if you open LO and edit a presentation, does the bug occur for you?
[15:57] <seb128> jono, wb, do you think I'm crazy enough to run quantal yet? :p
[15:58] <jono> seb128, are you serious? lol
[15:58] <jono> seb128, I thought you would need to be running it
[15:58] <jono> :-)
[15:58] <seb128> jono, I'm part of the LTS .1 team in fact so for once I'm staying on stable for some time ;-)
[15:59] <didrocks> jono: I see no crash in that case. However, the top unity panel becomes transparent, which is an interesting case on itself :)
[15:59] <didrocks> when you double click to select something
[15:59] <didrocks> well, not everytime
[15:59] <didrocks> but common enough
[15:59] <seb128> jono, it would help to get a stacktrace of the issue, do you know how to do that?
[15:59] <jono> seb128, nope
[16:00] <jono> I just rebooted and I can't reproduce
[16:00] <seb128> hum, k
[16:00] <jono> maybe this was fixed in an update
[16:00] <jono> just trying to trigger it now
[16:00] <seb128> could be
[16:00] <jono> didrocks, hah!
[16:00] <didrocks> well, there is transparent panel to get fixed :)
[16:00] <jono> aha
[16:00] <jono> it just happened
[16:00] <jono> how do I get a trace seb128?
[16:00] <seb128> didrocks, why do you hate the bling? ;-)
[16:00] <didrocks> jono: if you get something similar, try to hover the panel
[16:00] <didrocks> see if it's a crash
[16:01] <didrocks> or something like I experience
[16:01] <didrocks> seb128: well, I think we just created the <blink /> tag in unity :)
[16:01] <seb128> jono, apport is still not logging any compiz file in /var/crash even after reboot?
[16:01] <jono> didrocks, I see Unity seemingly restart and LAuncher vanishes and then returns
[16:01] <jono> seb128, nope
[16:01] <didrocks> jono: so maybe it's the same bug, it's not crashing, it's just blinking
[16:01] <didrocks> that's why you don't get a crash file :)
[16:02] <seb128> jono, basically, go to a vt, sudo gdb -p $(pidof compiz), on the compiz prompt:
[16:02] <seb128> set logging on
[16:02] <seb128> c
[16:02] <didrocks> tsss
[16:02] <seb128> return to your session
[16:02] <seb128> get the bug
[16:02] <didrocks> unity --advanced-debug in a vt
[16:02] <didrocks> why do I work for otherwise? :)
[16:02] <seb128> jono, ^ what didrocks says
[16:03] <seb128> didrocks, does that log into a file?
[16:03] <seb128> didrocks, or do you need to add --log?
[16:04] <didrocks> seb128: I'm looking, I have a fish memory on what I did :)
[16:04] <seb128> jono, key point is to run those commands from a vt or another session since when compiz will segfault you will not be able to access your session to go to gdb if you run it there
[16:04] <jono> hmm switching VTs seems to restart compiz too
[16:04] <jono> ok I ran --advanced-debug in a bt
[16:04] <jono> vt
[16:05] <seb128> jono, good, get the bug now ;-)
[16:05] <jono> so just trigger it?
[16:05] <seb128> yes
[16:05] <seb128> that will freeze your xorg session
[16:05] <seb128> got to the vt
[16:05] <seb128> type "bt"
[16:05] <seb128> and quit gdb
[16:05] <seb128> that will restore your graphical session
[16:06] <jono> ok triggered
[16:06] <didrocks> yeah, it should log
[16:06] <jono> bt says "no stack"
[16:06] <didrocks> yeah, so I'm sure you have the same thing than I have
[16:06] <didrocks> not a crash
[16:06] <didrocks> just the launcher/panel blinking
[16:07] <seb128> oh
[16:07] <jono> ahhh gotcha
[16:07] <jono> seb128, you should upgrade to see it ;-)
[16:07] <didrocks> jono: want to open a bug or me to do it?
[16:07] <jono> didrocks, would you as you can probably add more detail
[16:07] <jono> all I can say is that it blinks
[16:07] <didrocks> jono: sure
[16:07] <jono> I will add the details of LO triggering it though
[16:07] <jono> thanks didrocks!
[16:08] <seb128> jono, I will put quantal on my netbook, I want to play with the system compositor stuff from robert_ancell anyway ;-)
[16:08] <jono> thanks for the help seb128
[16:08] <didrocks> jono: I will write it in French to punish the upstream team :)
[16:08] <jono> didrocks, lol
[16:08] <seb128> jono, yw, that also explain why apport didn't work ;-)
[16:08] <jono> seb128, indeed
[16:08] <jono> :-)
[16:08] <jono> brb
[16:13] <didrocks> (if only launchpad would let me file a bug)
[16:14] <didrocks> seb128: does https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+filebug works for you?
[16:15] <seb128> didrocks, it loads
[16:15] <didrocks> not for me :/
[16:15] <seb128> didrocks, do you want me to try to submit?
[16:15] <didrocks> ok, ubuntu-bug unity FTW
[16:15] <didrocks> seb128: that's fine, I workaround it :)
[16:15] <didrocks> thanks!
[16:15] <seb128> ok
[16:15] <seb128> np ;-)
[16:20] <didrocks> jono: if you want to track it, bug #1024459
[16:23] <jono> thanks didrocks
[16:23] <didrocks> yw :)
[16:23] <jono> didrocks, did you notice this with the spreadsheet?
[16:23] <jono> it affects me in presenter
[16:23] <didrocks> jono: yeah, I did in spreadsheet and presenter
[16:24] <didrocks> I guess it's a general libreoffice issue
[16:24] <didrocks> seems related to the menu, maybe a bad export or something
[16:24] <didrocks> but unity should be stronger against those cases
[16:25] <didrocks> jono: added that it affects also presenter
[16:37] <jono> thanks didrocks
[16:56] <Sargun_Screen> Anyone have any ideas about bug 957494?
[16:57] <ev> mpt: yay foresight. I already have the data to hand for the per-problem graphs. This should be super easy.
[16:57] <mpt> \o/
[16:57] <Sargun_Screen> Is there a bzr branch for precise I can use the build the mdadm / mdmon package needed
[17:00] <seb128> could somebody reject https://code.launchpad.net/~nik90/ubuntu/precise/totem/add_keywords_new/+merge/101209 ?
[17:00] <stgraber> seb128: done
[17:00] <seb128> thanks
[17:32] <phoenix_firebrd> in the debian control file what should i put for section  for kmix?
[18:00] <toabctl> phoenix_firebrd, imho "sound"
[18:00] <ScottK> phoenix_firebrd: You shouldn't change what's already there.
[18:01] <phoenix_firebrd> ScottK: "unknown" was in the section, so the package got rejected
[18:01] <phoenix_firebrd> ScottK: sound works
[18:02] <ScottK> phoenix_firebrd: We already have a package for kmix, so you don't need to make your own.
[18:02] <toabctl> phoenix_firebrd, and "sound" is already in the debian/ubuntu package
[18:03] <phoenix_firebrd> i am learning to package, so i have to learn a lot
[18:03] <phoenix_firebrd> "File kmix_4.1-1.diff.gz already exists in Kde multimedia, but uploaded version has different contents" what does this mean?
[18:37] <shadeslayer> hi! seems like opencv build depends on libtiff4 whereas libsane-dev will drag in libtiff5 which conflicts with libtiff4
[18:38] <shadeslayer> could somone who has the appropriate upload rights fix this if s/he's around?
[18:40] <xnox> mterry hallyn ^^^^
[18:40] <xnox> shadeslayer: it's in progress http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/tiff.html
[18:40] <shadeslayer> awesome
[18:43] <shadeslayer> a heads up on the Ubuntu Devel ML would have been nice though ;)
[19:06] <cr3> if I have a package which contained a directory with files that was now changed to a symlink, it looks like upgrading the package is keeping the directory which is now empty :(
[19:11] <dobey> cr3: i think you need to add a Breaks/Replaces, to fix that
[19:12] <cr3> dobey: interesting, thanks!
[19:14] <dobey> switching files between dir/file/link is hard. i /think/ breaks/replaces of the older version will fix it, but not totally sure
[19:15] <cjwatson> no, dpkg will not switch between directory and link no matter what metadata you provide, quite deliberatelt.
[19:15] <cjwatson> *deliberately
[19:16] <cjwatson> you have to remove the old directory in the preinst.  for bonus points, handle rollback correctly.  I think there's an example in one of my packages somewhere - maybe groff or groff-base?
[19:17] <seb128> those things are harder than they should be ;-)
[19:17] <seb128> or aka "don't do that" ;-)
[19:17] <seb128> (that being replacing a symlink with a dir with the same name)
[19:17] <cjwatson> should be - matter of opinion.  the design decision in dpkg was that doing this automatically was too dangerous.
[19:18] <seb128> (or the other way around rather)
[19:18] <cjwatson> either
[19:31] <alazare619_> anyone here have knowledge of why i cant get ubiquity-frontend-debconf to run from terminal?
[19:43] <ogasawara> @pilot out
[20:18] <mdeslaur> FYI, I'm going to attempt to get ruby-rspec-core merged with the insane circular build depends
[20:53] <mterry> reportbug.debian.org is down  :(
[20:53] <mterry> or at least not accepting my SMTP requests...
[22:06] <hippiehacker> Is there a way to seed a ubuntu install in oem-mode to not download the language packs? If I disconnect the network, the install is great/fast, but if I leave it connected to the network, I have to wait while it downloads language packs I don't want/need
[22:22] <phoenix_firebrd> i am getting build errors for a package in ppa
[22:22] <phoenix_firebrd> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/110060774/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.kmix_4.1-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> the build-dependencies are pretty incomplete
[22:24] <phoenix_firebrd> JontheEchidna: it builds locally
[22:25] <JontheEchidna> you'd have the build-depends installed locally
[22:25] <phoenix_firebrd> JontheEchidna: ya
[22:25] <phoenix_firebrd> JontheEchidna: so what should i do next?
[22:25] <cjwatson> hippiehacker: Preseed pkgsel/language-packs to the empty string.
[22:25] <JontheEchidna> add the proper build-depends until it builds
[22:26] <hippiehacker> cjwatson: thanks
[22:26] <phoenix_firebrd> JontheEchidna: where?
[22:26] <JontheEchidna> debian/control, in the Build-Depends field
[22:27] <phoenix_firebrd> JontheEchidna: ok
[22:28] <JontheEchidna> you could check the quantal package for kmix and check the build-depends there
[22:30] <phoenix_firebrd> JontheEchidna: thats a good idea
[22:34] <micahg> phoenix_firebrd: you can try backportpackage and see if that works as well
[22:35] <phoenix_firebrd> micahg: ok
[22:37] <hippiehacker> cjwatson: that worked, thanks => https://github.com/sputnik/sputnik-oem/commit/1152348e606154daf77409f227a1ae66d7736754
[22:40] <hippiehacker> I take that back, it's downloading language packs still, is there something else in my config that would cause them to download?
[22:41] <ScottK> mterry: Word is barry fixed it.
[22:53] <cjwatson> hippiehacker: not sure at this time of night, sorry
[22:54] <cjwatson> base-config/install-language-support <- question name obsolete for something like the last seven years.  Perhaps that should be pkgsel/install-language-support
[22:54] <cjwatson> (and owner "d-i" not "base-config")
[22:55] <cjwatson> other than that I guess I'd need a full debug log
[23:04] <hippiehacker> cjwatson: I'll give it another go and try that
[23:19] <alazare619_> im trying to build a ubuntu based distro from scratch im having 2 issues
[23:20] <alazare619_> 1 i cant dd it to a jump drive the iso and 2 when its booting it stalls on waiting for network configuration anyone have any ideas?
[23:20] <cjwatson> 1 sounds like you need to run isohybrid over the image
[23:21] <cjwatson> 2 casper.log may help, if you can extract it
[23:21] <cjwatson> and perhaps extract your initrd and the stock one and diff -ru them
[23:21] <cjwatson> make sure you can explain all the differences
[23:23] <alazare619_> also for some reason it wont boot straight to the live
[23:23] <alazare619_> i have to enter in the ubuntu user name without a password
[23:23] <alazare619_> any idea on that?
[23:24] <cjwatson> not without logs :)
[23:25] <cjwatson> but that stuff is configured by casper in the initrd, so perhaps caused by the same underlying mis-setup as 2
[23:26] <alazare619_> ok well i have each step all documented i did
[23:26] <alazare619_> theres not really any logs i did it all via debootstrap
[23:27] <alazare619_> then cp over the resolv  conf
[23:27] <alazare619_> chrooted in ran all the installs
[23:27] <alazare619_> exited after removing resolv.conf and the tmp folder
[23:28] <cjwatson> casper always writes a log as it boots
[23:28] <cjwatson> Sounds like you haven't set up a proper live-capable initramfs; it's necessary to install casper and run update-initramfs in the chroot to generate one
[23:28] <cjwatson> Although much easier to do it via livecd-rootfs + live-build
[23:29] <cjwatson> (Or even just live-build on its own)
[23:31] <alazare619_> cjwatson,  i keep having an issue with livecd-rootfs
[23:31] <alazare619_> basically it just keeps failing to build the chroot
[23:31] <alazare619_> without any modification it fails
[23:31] <alazare619_> it trys to gzip intrid
[23:33] <alazare619_> ok so i have to update-initramfs after casper and lupin-casper are installed?
[23:33] <cjwatson> I can probably help with livecd-rootfs, but only if you give me a full transcript of exactly what you're doing and the exact text of the error messages
[23:33] <cjwatson> I cannot help given only paraphrased summaries
[23:34] <cjwatson> I would rather help with livecd-rootfs than help with doing all the same kinds of things by hand
[23:34] <cjwatson> The latter will get very tedious very quickly
[23:35] <alazare619_> http://pastebin.com/1rNNKkzS
[23:35] <alazare619_> thats every command ive issued
[23:35] <alazare619_> so maybe you can track it down
[23:36] <alazare619_> ive tried doing it from scratch
[23:37] <alazare619_> but i suppose i can reattempt livecd-rootfs
[23:38] <alazare619_> only problem is i cant figure out how to make my own distro with it based on the fact it pulls in webseeds
[23:38] <alazare619_> im working on a qt based respin of ubuntu
[23:38] <cjwatson> I don't think I'm prepared to debug that enormous pile of stuff, sorry - it's not worth it
[23:39] <cjwatson> You can always use live-build directly; it doesn't have any seed-specific logic in it
[23:39] <alazare619_> live build fails on 12.04
[23:39] <cjwatson> I don't believe that, as we built 12.04 images using live-build on 12.04
[23:39] <cjwatson> live-build *with your configuration* fails on 12.04 :-)
[23:40] <alazare619_> do you have a auto config build clean setup that i can use with a custom package list?
[23:40] <cjwatson> That's kind of what livecd-rootfs is
[23:40] <cjwatson> You can copy it and hack it if you like
[23:41] <alazare619_> well i dont understand there "seed" files
[23:41] <alazare619_> there not packagelists
[23:41] <cjwatson> You don't need to
[23:41] <cjwatson> The only stuff that pulls in Ubuntu seeds there (at least ignoring the preinstalled-pool stuff which is basically only used on ARM) is the stuff that calls add_task
[23:41] <cjwatson> So just make that be add_package instead
[23:42] <cjwatson> And disregard anything that refers to PREINSTALLED or similar
[23:42] <cjwatson> add_package builds up a package-list for live-build
[23:43] <cjwatson> If the first argument to it is install, it adds to the set of packages that are installed in the livefs and will be copied to the target system; if the first argument is live, it adds to the set of packages that are installed in the livefs but will be removed from the target system
[23:43] <cjwatson> (target => on installation)
[23:44] <alazare619_> ok so if i want to do a livecd-roofs build
[23:44] <alazare619_> the first command would be export PROJECT=ubuntu SUITE=precise ARCH=i386 BINARYFORMAT=iso-hybrid
[23:44] <alazare619_> but that then pulls in everything that is ubuntu
[23:45] <cjwatson> You can just copy its auto/config script and edit it
[23:45] <cjwatson> You don't have to symlink it
[23:45] <cjwatson> That way it just gives you a starting point
[23:54] <alazare619_> yea im working on it
[23:55] <barry> ScottK, hippiehacker what did I fix? :)
[23:55] <ScottK> barry: reportbug.  mterry was whining about it earlier.
[23:56] <barry> ah, no it was a temporary outage.  bzed said they were moving the server.  but it's back now (though i have not gotten the email response to a bug i filed a couple of hours ago)
[23:58] <alazare619_> http://pastebin.com/ET9JdtP8
[23:58] <alazare619_> cjwatson,
[23:58] <alazare619_> thats the area i modified
[23:58] <alazare619_> seems about right