[03:40] <wallyworld> can anyone tell me, given a BranchRevision object, the correct way to figure out if the revision was from merging in another branch and what that other branch is? Do you look for some attribute of any revision parents?
[03:42] <StevenK> wallyworld: wgrant says "lol"
[03:42] <wallyworld> why lol?
[03:42] <wallyworld> did i say something funny?
[03:43] <wgrant> You may be able to use look at the revision's parents' getBranch method.
[03:43] <wgrant> s/look at //
[03:43] <wallyworld> that's what i'm doing now - i get the first parent and use getBranch() on that
[03:43] <wallyworld> i wasn't sure if that was the correct thing to do or not
[03:44] <wallyworld> i don't have any good data to check
[03:44] <wallyworld> that my theory is correct that it is the right thing to do
[03:44] <lifeless> I suggest discussing this with tim / a bazaar dev
[03:44] <lifeless> I would, but its too much like work
[03:45] <wallyworld> lifeless: and you are on HOLIDAYS
[03:45] <lifeless> exactly
[03:45] <wgrant>  /abr lifeless
[03:45] <lifeless> abr
[03:45] <lifeless> ?
[03:45] <wallyworld> lifeless: so shut down your irc client :-)
[03:45] <StevenK> OUT, DAMN SPOT
[03:46] <wgrant> lifeless: auto op, ban, remove, de-op.
[03:47] <lifeless> wgrant: thats an odd thing to suggest
[03:48] <lifeless> wallyworld: On leave != uninterested :)
[03:48] <lifeless> wallyworld: just relaxed :>
[03:49] <wallyworld> lifeless: well i hope you have a beer in hand or something :-)
[03:49] <lifeless> I'm playing wow :)
[03:50] <lifeless> wallyworld: while you are here
[03:50] <lifeless> bug 691343
[03:50] <_mup_> Bug #691343: OOPS page should reflect new bug filing location <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/691343 >
[03:50] <lifeless> would be easy and extremely useful to fix :)
[03:50] <wallyworld> lifeless: ok. i'll take a look
[03:52]  * wallyworld assigns bug ^^^^ to himself
[09:08] <mrevell> Hello
[09:20] <danilos> wgrant, hi, are you perhaps still around?
[10:05] <wgrant> danilos: Hi.
[10:05] <wgrant> danilos: You're wondering about TTBJ.build?
[10:06]  * StevenK looks for a reviewer in here as well ...
[10:06] <StevenK> wgrant: Doesn't that just link to the Build table?
[10:07] <wgrant> danilos: I think it should link to the TTB.
[10:07] <wgrant> danilos: But that whole part of the model is being ripped out when I get bored.
[10:07] <wgrant> Which may end up being next week.
[10:09] <wgrant> StevenK: Down to 9.1EB yet?
[10:09] <StevenK><PHONE_NUMBER>695 MB
[10:10] <wgrant> :(
[10:10] <StevenK> wgrant: You have 23 hours 55 minutes to get here and download the entire Internet
[10:11] <lifeless> wtf
[10:12] <StevenK> lifeless: So, internet here said I had 500MB download limit. I logged in again after it disconnected me for hitting the limit, and it seems my limit is now 9.2EB
[10:12] <wgrant> The limit also decreased as we used it.
[10:13] <wgrant> It seems to be counting properly.
[10:13] <lifeless> wheeee
[10:13] <wgrant> Despite being 9.2EB of 500MB.
[10:13] <jpds> How odd.
[10:13] <StevenK> I suspect an overflow bug of some kind
[10:13] <lifeless> [10:13] <lifeless>     Hard / Soft  Page ID
[10:13] <lifeless>       59 /  242  BugTask:+index
[10:13] <lifeless>       31 /  267  ProjectGroupSet:CollectionResource:#project_groups
[10:13] <lifeless>       25 / 3459  Archive:+index
[10:13] <lifeless>       25 /  289  Distribution:+bugs
[10:13] <lifeless>       18 /  237  POFile:+translate
[10:13] <wgrant> jpds: Yet remarkably convenient.
[10:13] <danilos> wgrant, that's right (sorry, phone and emails :)
[10:13] <lifeless>       12 /    1  Bug:EntryResource
[10:13] <lifeless>        8 /  120  Question:+index
[10:13] <wgrant> lifeless: Nooooooo.
[10:13] <lifeless>        6 /   18  DistroSeriesLanguage:+index
[10:13] <lifeless>        6 /    0  Person:+leave
[10:13] <lifeless>        5 /    2  Person:+bugs
[10:13] <lifeless> StevenK: overflow would count down :P
[10:14] <StevenK> Haha, Person:+leave
[10:14] <StevenK> lifeless: It does count down as it use it ...
[10:14] <lifeless> sorry, I meant up
[10:14] <lifeless> overflows would be in 2's complement
[10:14] <StevenK> Yes. It's very strange
[10:14] <danilos> wgrant, also, do you think we could just switch getCurrentBuildFarmJob to get the new-style jobs directly thus not needing to add it for the TranslationTemplateBuildJob?
[10:14] <lifeless> I suspect an unsigned where it should be signed ;)
[10:15] <StevenK> And I don't want to tell them, since then they might fix it
[10:16] <lifeless> meep
[10:16] <wgrant> danilos: If you can find a way to do that, sure.
[10:16] <lifeless> filebug is borked in prod
[10:16] <lifeless> on chromium
[10:16] <wgrant> danilos: I'm not sure it's possible yet.
[10:16] <lifeless> apparently if you click 'just so', worked when  retried.
[10:17] <wgrant> I forget if BuildFarmJob.builder is set during the build.
[10:17] <wgrant> And at 9:20pm after just getting home from a sprint, I'm not entirely sure that I want to find out.
[10:18] <StevenK> Like the sprint was that hard, you slacker
[10:19] <lifeless> wgrant: 900ms queries
[10:19] <wgrant> danilos: It looks like BuildFarmJob.builder is not set during the build, so you probably can't do it.
[10:19] <lifeless> wgrant: *, well, 15
[10:19] <wgrant> danilos: You have to go through the BuildFarmJobOld
[10:20] <wgrant> lifeless: I fail at interpreting OOPS reports. How do I find an OOPS for that pageid?
[10:20] <lifeless> wgrant: you start on the oops summary, sent to canonical-launchpad
[10:20] <lifeless> wgrant: then, you look for bugs tagged timeout, and you find (just filed) bug 691478
[10:20] <_mup_> Bug #691478: Archive:+index timeouts <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/691478 >
[10:20] <lifeless> wgrant: and in there, click on the link :)
[10:20] <danilos> wgrant, tbh, I don't really understand most of this, so I am just seeing if there's anything that we really need to do to make it possible for you guys to finish the migration
[10:21] <wgrant> danilos: I don't know exactly what is necessary, sorry. I need to swap that all back in.
[10:21] <wgrant> It's been a few months.
[10:21] <lifeless> wgrant: oh, to find the entry in the report, search for the pageid in the summary report.
[10:21] <wgrant> lifeless: Hm, OK. Thanks.
[10:21] <danilos> wgrant, right, so perhaps just adding the build property to the TTBJ should solve what we can do on our side, and I'll let you worry about the rest
[10:22] <wgrant> lifeless: Ow.
[10:22] <danilos> wgrant, though, I am not sure how do we switch buildmaster to use new TTBs instead of TTBJs for translation jobs, but I guess that's easy enough
[10:23] <danilos> wgrant, also, what happens with all the BFJOld info like score and such, I don't see that in BFJs anymore
[10:23] <wgrant> danilos: The new classes (TTB, BPB, SPRB, etc.) are mostly just used for storing data for histories.
[10:23] <wgrant> Most control is still performed by the BFJOld.
[10:24] <wgrant> The score is on BuildQueue.
[10:24] <wgrant> I want to merge BuildQueue into BuildFarmJob, but some others do not.
[10:24] <wgrant> Score will remain there for now.
[10:24] <wgrant> And BuildQueue will link to BuildFarmJob.
[10:24] <danilos> wgrant, ah, ok, so we are still pretty far off from being able to completely switch to the new model if I got that correctly
[10:24] <wgrant> danilos: Not *really*.
[10:25] <wgrant> Just needs some code moved around, basically.
[10:25] <danilos> wgrant, heh, ok, then I didn't get that correctly :)
[10:25] <wgrant> But I need to work out what.
[10:25] <wgrant> The job-specific schema changes are done.
[10:25] <wgrant> Apart from deleting the old tables.
[10:25] <danilos> wgrant, right, so do you think it makes the most sense for you to deal with that? would it help if TTBJ.build was provided and pointed at TTB?
[10:26] <wgrant> danilos: Do that for now, since it makes the buildd-manager log sad.
[10:26] <danilos> wgrant, ok, I hope I'll be able to come up with a nice simple query to get that (i.e. I am hoping a TTBJ has enough information to do it)
[10:27] <danilos> wgrant, thanks for the input
[10:27] <wgrant> danilos: Sorry I can't be more help.
[10:27] <wgrant> But uni pushed all that stuff way down.
[10:28] <danilos> wgrant, yeah, don't worry, it's just that _that_ bigjools guys is pushing us to implement stuff that I believe we mostly implemented :)
[10:28] <wgrant> danilos: It's all a bit of a mess, yes.
[10:28] <wgrant> We are really close now, though.
[10:29] <danilos> wgrant, and I don't know enough to tell him off, so I am trying to learn all about this in a few hours which turns out is not the simplest thing around ;)
[10:29] <danilos> wgrant, not to mention that TTBJ is at the same time a BFJOld and a BranchJob, just to make it more interesting :)
[10:29] <wgrant> danilos: Yeah, I like to blissfully forget that detail.
[10:30] <danilos> hey bigjools, I was just gossiping about you, but if I tell you what it was, it won't be proper talk-behind-the-back stuff
[10:30] <lifeless> hmm, we should probably log returned rows in the oops query history
[10:30] <wgrant> lifeless: The number of returned rows?
[10:30] <lifeless> yeah
[10:30] <wgrant> Indeed.
[10:30] <lifeless> so we can see slow but fast per row
[10:31] <lifeless> vs fast but few rows
[10:31] <lifeless> vs slow and few rows
[10:31] <danilos> wgrant, yeah, I hate that, and I am hoping we can soon just make TTBJ a BranchJob and let any buildd stuff live in TTB
[10:31] <wgrant> danilos: I will hopefully be deleting TTBJ.
[10:32] <wgrant> Although it may end up staying, but not as part of the build farm model.
[10:32] <danilos> wgrant, well, we can't delete the branchjob stuff, that's what schedules the build
[10:32] <wgrant> Right.
[10:32] <danilos> wgrant, right, we should just rename it
[10:32] <wgrant> TTB will probably know about it, but nothing else.
[10:32] <lifeless> wgrant: there wqere some dups
[10:32] <lifeless> wgrant: but only 2.5 seconds worth
[10:33] <wgrant> lifeless: yeah, max of 3 reps.
[10:33] <wgrant> Not 100.
[10:33] <lifeless> wgrant: max of 26 perhaps
[10:33] <lifeless> row 4 of duplicates
[10:33] <danilos> wgrant, right, though perhaps not even that (i.e. we use it to add a TTB to the queue, but that should be it)
[10:33] <lifeless> ah nope, wrong column
[10:34] <lifeless> wgrant: so I think we've still got a per-row-in-ui just-in-time query being triggered
[10:34]  * bigjools is not here
[10:34] <wgrant> lifeless: Possibly. Can I see recent OOPSes for Archive:+packages somehow?
[10:35] <wgrant> I want to compare them to Archive:+index.
[10:35] <lifeless> wgrant: log into devpad, grep.
[10:35] <wgrant> Yay.
[10:35] <wgrant> I will just trigger new ones instead.
[10:35] <wgrant> On DF.
[10:35] <lifeless> wgrant: or
[10:35] <lifeless> OOPS-1811H1896
[10:35] <lifeless> 25 seconds!
[10:35] <lifeless> (top 10 durations in the lpnet summary)
[10:36] <wgrant> Minimal reps.
[10:36] <wgrant> Just... very slow.
[10:36] <wgrant> Hm.
[10:36] <wgrant> That OOPS must be wrong.
[10:36]  * wgrant blames the GIL.
[10:36] <wgrant> 5s gap after a 200ms query.
[10:37] <lifeless> there's a bug for getting per thread times
[10:37] <lifeless> just needs tuits
[10:37] <wgrant> And a couple of other similar ones.
[10:37] <lifeless> wgrant: large row counts coming back through storm can legitimately show up as that, fwiw
[10:37] <wgrant> Oh, that +index OOPS is the same.
[10:37] <wgrant> Multi-second gaps after ~200ms queries that wouldn't return that many rows.
[10:38] <lifeless> heh
[10:38] <wgrant> Like <100.
[10:38] <lifeless> well, someone should merge my single threaded appserver branch :)
[11:38] <henninge> danilos: do you know about LaunchpadWriteTarFile?
[11:38] <danilos> henninge, now I do :)
[11:39] <henninge> danilos: it's in lp.translations.utilites.translation_export
[11:39] <henninge> but I think it belongs under lp.testing.
[11:39] <danilos> henninge, right, and it might, though testing does sound weird, let me look
[11:40] <henninge> danilos: oh, right. I thought it was only used in tests
[11:40] <danilos> henninge, it might make sense to move it to lp.services though
[11:40] <henninge> but the language pack exporter uses it, too.
[11:40] <henninge> danilos: yes, I agree.
[11:41] <henninge> danilos: I'll put it in lp.services.tarfile
[11:42] <danilos> henninge, sure, though you might want to avoid using the same name as the global tarfile module imho :)
[11:42] <henninge> ok
[11:42] <henninge> lptarfile
[11:42] <henninge> ?
[11:42] <danilos> henninge, i.e. you can't do "from lp.services import tarfile" and "import tarfile" then
[11:43] <danilos> henninge, I don't know, it's also only for writing
[11:43] <henninge> I would not recommend taht anyway
[11:43] <henninge> importing the module, I mean.
[11:43] <henninge> tarfile_helpers
[11:43] <danilos> henninge, heh, I am not saying I'd recommend it, it's just that it'd be unobvious to a reader of the code which tarfile module is being used in that case
[11:44] <henninge> true
[11:44] <henninge> danilos: how is tarfile_helpers?
[11:44] <danilos> henninge, probably good enough, go with that and see if your reviewer thinks otherwise
[11:44] <henninge> cool, thanks
[11:59] <deryck> Morning, all.
[12:31] <maxb> *blink*   Is PPA +copy-packages supposed to offer o-series and p-series as destinations?
[12:33] <jelmer> maxb, there's a bug open about that
[12:34] <jelmer> maxb, we previously didn't really support distro series that were present but not initialized
[14:12] <gmb> gary_poster: Are you the right person to talk to about making lxml a dependency for Launchpad?
[14:12] <gary_poster> gmb, I guess
[14:13] <gmb> gary_poster: I ask because I've got a branch in review that depends on it; bac has pointed out that we don't necessarily have it on our appservers.
[14:14] <gary_poster> gmb, lxml is notoriously annoying to build as a Python egg.  Is the Deb-packaged version acceptable?  Also...
[14:14] <gmb> gary_poster: There's now some discussion in launchpad-reviews about this...
[14:14] <gary_poster> ISTR that we have had an lxml dependency in the past
[14:14] <gmb> ORLY.
[14:14] <gary_poster> yeah, I saw, gmb, I'm not entirely sure where to write :-)
[14:14] <gmb> Over there. There are more people paying attention :)
[14:59] <maxb> gmb: Remember to tag the launchpad-dependencies branch :-)
[15:03] <gmb> maxb: Done, thanks for the reminder. There are two sets of instructions for maintaining that .deb and on of htem is wrong.
[15:03] <gmb> I'll update it now...
[15:03] <maxb> gmb: where is the second?
[15:05] <gmb> maxb: Well, the first is here: https://dev.launchpad.net/Hacking#Changing%20the%20launchpad%20dependency%20debs (and was wrong). The second (correct; or at least more up-to-date) version is here: https://dev.launchpad.net/LaunchpadPpa#launchpad-dependencies
[15:05] <gmb> I'd got all the way through the process before finding hte second.
[15:06] <gmb> I've updated /Hacking to point at the LaunchpadPPA page.
[15:07] <maxb> hah, nice. I never knew of the first, when I wrote the second
[15:07] <maxb> Neither did anyone who was asking me if there were any instructions for doing it :-)
[15:08] <gmb> Heh.
[15:08] <gmb> Well, they were similar enough that I didn't screw things up. The first just used the old, non-bzr-builddeb way.
[16:08] <henninge> danilos: fxing bug 619121
[16:08] <_mup_> Bug #619121: Inactive template in rosetta: Confusing wording <bugjam2010> <lp-translations> <trivial> <ui> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by henninge> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/619121 >
[16:08] <henninge> danilos: do you agree with "Template active?" instead of "Accept translations?"
[16:18] <danilos> henninge, yes
[16:18] <danilos> henninge, or "Template is active"
[16:19] <henninge> without the '?'
[16:19] <henninge> I think I like that even better
[16:19] <danilos> henninge, I don't, I think it should just be "???"
[16:20] <henninge> ;-)
[16:20] <henninge> danilos: bug 670821
[16:20] <_mup_> Bug #670821: translator comment formating lost <lp-translations> <trivial> <ui> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/670821 >
[16:20] <henninge> do you know of any reason not to use a <pre> here?
[16:21] <danilos> henninge, well, one: comments in PO files commonly have some whitespace padding as in:
[16:21] <danilos> #.   This is all so cool
[16:21] <danilos> #.     that it doesn't make sense at all
[16:22] <danilos> (imagine those two were aligned: basically, we'd need equivalents for "rectangle whitespace" handling)
[16:22] <danilos> henninge, but, it's probably an improvement to just use <pre>, which is why it's 'trivial' :)
[16:22] <henninge> danilos: but doesn't <pre> give us that?
[16:23] <danilos> henninge, well, my point was that it'd be nice to strip initial spaces (same amount from every line) and then put it into <pre>
[16:24] <danilos> henninge, i.e. think of a case like this as well:
[16:24] <danilos> #.    numbered items:
[16:24] <danilos> #.      1. one
[16:24] <danilos> #.      2. two
[16:24] <danilos> henninge, it'd be nice if we stripped those 4 leading spaces from each line, but not a big deal imo
[16:25] <henninge> no, not really. ;)
[16:25] <danilos> henninge, yeah, so go for the trivial :)
[16:25] <henninge> we can do that when we redesign the +translate page ... ;)
[16:25] <danilos> henninge, heh, right, "when" :)
[16:25] <henninge> meaning 'if'?
[16:26] <danilos> henninge, well, meaning "we" :)
[16:26] <danilos> or rather, "we?" :)
[16:31] <henninge> they!
[17:27] <danilos> MutatedCelebrityError :(
[17:35] <maxb> hah
[17:35] <maxb> that is an AMAZING classname :-)
[17:41] <danilos> :)
[17:41] <danilos> I'd probably enjoy it more if we didn't get ~800 OOPSes with that :)
[17:45] <benji> I'm reminded of the TemporalParadox raised when you tried to edit a past version of an object in the Zope 2 history tab.
[20:19] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build (231): FAILURE in 3 hr 38 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/231/
[21:59] <LPCIBot> Project devel build (313): FAILURE in 3 hr 13 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/devel/313/
[21:59] <LPCIBot> Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [r=bac][ui=none][bug=685624] Provide
[21:59] <LPCIBot> TranslationTemplatesBuildJob.build property linking to
[21:59] <LPCIBot> TranslationTemplatesBuild objects to stop polluting
[21:59] <LPCIBot> build-manager logs.


[08:18] <Regor> i have to put bionic on dell but i want same settings/apps (vlc, weechat,mupdf,rhythmbox,pychess,sagemath.....etc) that i am using on desktop . what is best way to do it?
[08:25] <well_laid_lawn> Regor:  check if they have their configs in dot files in your home directory
[08:25] <well_laid_lawn> and copy them over
[10:38] <BuSdRiVer320> I have to say, in 10 years of using linux, I have never come across a NON-LTS release to be so pleasing on the eye and so stable
[10:38] <BuSdRiVer320> seems like an LTS release
[11:04] <well_laid_lawn> xubuntu looks good in blue
[17:02] <Regor> i have done it successfully ... few errors i had ..but finally all went well.
[17:03] <Regor> bionic is excellent !
[18:59] <jdwwatts> fresh install seems to work fine
[22:16] <i3ernd> YOU GUYS ARE GREAT !


[01:56] <greg-g> rick_h_: awesome!
[01:57] <greg-g> rick_h_: and yeah, just because they offered and sent a follow-up email saying "why haven't you requested yours yet, it hurts our feelings"
[01:57] <rick_h_> ah, cool
[12:04] <snap-l> Good morning, gentle-folk
[12:05] <rick_h_> morning
[12:06] <brousch> i worked 2.5 days out of the last 10. vacation is over :(
[12:06] <rick_h_> ugh
[12:07] <snap-l> Welcome back? :)
[12:11] <brousch> you are too chipper today
[12:11] <snap-l> Not really
[12:11] <rick_h_> going to be a hot one :(
[12:11] <snap-l> But compared with yesterday, today should be better.
[12:12] <brousch> who cares, i'm inside an air conditioned building
[12:12] <snap-l> rick_h_: I found your new keyboard: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Solar-Keyboard-K750/dp/B004MF11MU
[12:12] <snap-l> and it's on sale today only, too.
[12:13] <rick_h_> yea, I saw this thing
[12:13] <rick_h_> but I don't get it
[12:13] <rick_h_> going to have crappy keys
[12:13] <snap-l> Dude, it's SOLAR.
[12:13] <rick_h_> and I hate wireless input
[12:13] <snap-l> Totally Green, hippie tech
[12:13] <snap-l> Gives you a place to put your peicils
[12:14] <snap-l> Tactile feedback. Pshaw.
[12:15] <snap-l> Of course if you live in a cave like most developers, your keyboard will die about 15 minutes after unboxing. ;)
[12:15] <snap-l> unless it can charge from the glow of your monitor.
[12:15] <nullspace> oh yeah unity hates to run on my system
[12:16] <rick_h_> that's ok, it hates everyone
[12:16] <snap-l> I kinda like it
[12:16] <nullspace> well at least it's an equal oppertunity hater
[12:17] <snap-l> though the dock on the side needs a "please go away, you're obscuring the side of libreoffice" button
[12:17] <nullspace> I wouldn't know it just hoses X for me because I have a 7300 GPU
[12:18] <snap-l> You need a new computer. ;)
[12:18] <snap-l> Just use that as a DNS server.
[12:19] <nullspace> that sounds like some marketing plan by another company I know, didn't balmer say that same thing
[12:19] <snap-l> No, he said "rabble rabble blargh BAZINGA"
[12:19] <snap-l> Which roughly translates to "please help me keep my job"
[12:20] <nullspace> and give me more booze
[12:20] <snap-l> You haven't studied Ballmer-ese
[12:20] <snap-l> Give me more booze is "developers developers developers"
[12:21] <snap-l> adding the fourth "developers" means "please give me more booze for I am sweaty"
[12:22] <snap-l> Never thought I'd say this, but I miss Bill Gates as the head of Microsoft
[12:22] <snap-l> at least he gave the company some testicles to kick
[12:27] <brousch> i just looked outside and it's darker than when i woke up this morning
[12:27] <brousch> way darker
[12:51] <snap-l> brousch: You're supposed to get storms today.
[12:52] <brousch> we are
[12:52] <snap-l> And so are we. :)
[12:52] <snap-l> Should be nice and comfy with 92F storms. ;)
[13:17] <Wolfger> but they bring cooler weather with them
[13:17] <Wolfger> or behind them
[13:18] <snap-l> Yes, yes they doo
[13:18] <snap-l> which is why I'm not complaining too hard.
[14:17] <snap-l> http://outloud.fm/moshpit
[15:20] <rick_h_> yummy, monitor reorg time
[15:20] <snap-l> yay!
[15:21] <snap-l> I <3 conference calls
[15:22] <snap-l> So completely silly right now
[15:23] <rick_h_> fun fun fun
[15:26] <rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/tkadlec/status/90411122817118208
[15:26] <rick_h_> wow
[15:26] <snap-l> That's pretty cool
[15:26] <snap-l> And sad, because IIRC that was the LISP course, correct?
[15:30] <greg-g> :( I miss Lisp
[15:31] <greg-g> probably just in a "oh, the good ole days of undergrad" kind of way
[15:32] <snap-l> I have several books of lisp on my shelf
[15:32] <snap-l> should really get them out someday.
[15:32] <snap-l> someday.
[15:32] <snap-l> someday.
[15:32] <snap-l> I say that a lot.
[15:33] <greg-g> ditto
[15:42] <Wolfger> ditto
[15:43] <Wolfger> Like "someday I should learn Python"
[15:43] <Wolfger> "someday I should learn C"
[15:43] <Wolfger> "someday I should sit my butt down and start writing an app"
[15:43] <Wolfger> someday, I'm gonna be awesome.
[15:46] <brousch> sameday, you'll be dead!
[15:46] <brousch> hm, not what i intended, but ok
[15:52] <rick_h_> I think everyone does, there's too much stuff these days
[15:52] <rick_h_> was listening to a podcast where they got talking how just web development has moved from the one guy you'd hire to do you whole company site
[15:52] <rick_h_> to a team of specialists and applications layered in crazy fasion
[15:53] <rick_h_> things just get more and more involved and complicated and just trying to keep up somewhere is crazy
[16:06] <snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I tend to agree, though I'm not sure it's as complicated as some folks make it out to be
[16:06] <snap-l> at the end of the day it's all about getting bits from one location to another
[16:07] <snap-l> I was on a call where they were hyperventilating about adding JSON support to one of our products
[16:07] <rick_h_> meh, it's a lot out there
[16:07] <snap-l> and I'm thinking "You already sling XML out this thing. Unless you're doing something crazy stupid, throwing out JSON shouldn't be that dificult"
[16:07] <rick_h_> hahahahahahahaha
[16:08] <rick_h_> except that xml allows for much more complicated stuctures than json
[16:08] <snap-l> But then again, it's Java-based so lord knows what gyrations you'd need
[16:08] <rick_h_> the reverse would be true, but going from xml -> json might not even be possible
[16:08] <snap-l> rick_h_: I doubt it. It's essentially key-value pairs
[16:08] <rick_h_> ok, yea I mean if it's simple data
[16:08] <rick_h_> but some places have a lot more
[16:09] <rick_h_> think about xml attribs for instance
[16:09] <snap-l> just sprinkle some SOAP so Java can auto-cope.
[16:09] <rick_h_> json has no home for them
[16:09] <snap-l> True
[16:10] <snap-l> I'm firmly in the camp that Java and the auto-tools they use are setting back computer-development about 20 years
[16:11] <snap-l> People don't think anymore about what they're using; they just point their IDE at some URL and expect code to just happen.
[16:11] <snap-l> Which is all fine and good once you understand what's happening underneath
[16:12] <snap-l> [insert standard rant about not being able to build Java code without Eclipse here]
[16:14] <snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/CRREdwards/statuses/90449814415872000 <- Snicker.
[16:35] <_stink_> getting daaarrrkk
[16:36] <Wolfger> round 2 of the storm?
[16:36] <_stink_> looks like it
[16:37] <_stink_> didn't really get much of a round one up here
[16:38] <greg-g> yeah, no round 1 here, but what just happened as round 2 was crazy. It was almost as dark as night
[17:08] <Wolfger> CNN needs more poll options. Like "Yes", "No", and "Don't be stupid."
[17:15] <snap-l> Wolfger: You expect people online to not be stupid?
[17:15] <snap-l> Bwahahahaha
[17:16] <jcastro> rick_h_: hah, so we craigslisted our fish tank
[17:16] <jcastro> and this dude came over
[17:16] <jcastro> and he misread so he thought I was giving him my entire kit for $35
[17:16] <jcastro> I'm like no dude, $350.
[17:16] <jcastro> he's like "oh, well bye."
[17:16] <snap-l> Fuckin' Craigslist
[17:17] <jcastro> well, we have emails with him
[17:17] <jcastro> he just didn't read I guess
[17:17] <jcastro> it's like yes dude, you're getting this huge entire aquarium setup with everything including the kickass substrate for growing plants for thirty five bucks.
[17:17] <Wolfger> snap-l: No, I expect CNN to not be stupid. Which I admit is nearly as laughable an idea...
[17:18] <Wolfger> Thanks, jcastro, for that excellent example of stupid people on the internet. :-)
[17:18] <rick_h_> jcastro: lol
[17:18] <rick_h_> well sucky
[17:20] <snap-l> jcastro: yeah, that sucks
[17:21] <jcastro> I more want it gone so I can go bigger next time. :)
[17:21] <jcastro> just doesn't make sense to set it up in a place where I will only be a year
[17:21] <rick_h_> uh oh, jcastro has the bug
[17:21] <snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
[17:21] <rick_h_> yea, I'm dying to set mine back up
[17:21] <rick_h_> the boy loves watching fish at the stores/etc
[17:21] <snap-l> I want to get back into keeping up an aquarium
[17:22] <rick_h_> think I'll start it back up this fall when the yard duties cut down
[17:22] <snap-l> but right now isn't the best time to be dumping money into fish
[17:22] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, everything going ok with the relocation project?
[17:22] <brousch> maybe you should invest in fish you can eat when they get too big
[17:22] <brousch> or maybe sardines
[17:22] <brousch> instead of tropical foofoo fish
[17:22] <snap-l> rick_h_: It goes. I think he's settling in
[17:23] <snap-l> but his TV is jacked, and he wants cable and ...
[17:23] <rick_h_> ah, gotcha
[17:24] <snap-l> Hell, I told him I'd put Dirty Jobs in the DVD player on repeat
[17:24] <snap-l> same thing as cable
[17:24] <brousch> start a new movement: The Patriot Aquarium
[17:24] <brousch> like the patriot gardens
[17:28] <Wolfger> Invest in sushi.  KINDLE CAN DIAF
[19:13] <rick_h_> this one guy, he said that he thought the kobo was the bestest e-reader evar! Nook + Kindle are baby beaters
[19:13] <rick_h_> so I bought stock in kobo
[19:14] <snap-l> Just like all of the people who said that any day now people would realize the brilliance of OS/2
[19:15] <snap-l> and now we're basking in OS/2's incredible marketshare
[19:15] <snap-l> OS/2 Vista and OS/2 7
[19:15] <rick_h_> have you seen all that linux news? it's the most popular. If you do a google trends it's much higher than windows :P
[19:15] <brousch> finally
[19:17] <snap-l> Well yeah... "how do I run Windows games on my Linux computer" has to be the biggest FAQ of them all.
[19:18] <snap-l> Followed by "how do I run Windows games on my Ubuntu"
[19:18] <rick_h_> actually number one search is "WTF is with all these linux asshats?"
[19:19] <snap-l> "I installed Linux on my talkie the talking toaster and now all it does is make me crumpets.  At least it sounds like Swedish, but I'm not sure. Can someone please help?"
[19:21] <_stink_> "I tried the above commands, and i bricked my toaster.  Can you help me."
[19:21] <snap-l> "Idiot, talkie the talking toaster doesn't know Swedish. It can't be saying anything in Swedish."
[19:22] <snap-l> "OK, after 3 updates, 12 patches, and the threat of violence, my toaster ran away last night. Please help me, as I don't have enough money for a new toaster. Answers to the name 'Nigel'"
[19:24] <snap-l> "Thank you for your bug report. We have moved from Natty Nutella to Oblong Orange Marmalade, and are closing your bug report. Have a nice day!"
[19:26] <rick_h_> get it all out :P
[19:26] <rick_h_> so went and got the mail, it's not currently 94...that's a nice suprise
[19:27] <snap-l> Yeah, but the humidity is 94%
[19:27] <snap-l> at least
[20:37] <snap-l> jcastro: Is Scrabble Free better than Word Feud?
[20:37] <jcastro> it's about the same
[20:37] <jcastro> but the squares are in the right place
[20:38] <jcastro> i wish they had a pay version, hate these ads.
[20:39] <jcastro> it has real push notifications, and a dictionary
[20:39] <jcastro> there are some nice things, other things are ok
[20:39] <jcastro> wordfeud is faster I think
[20:39] <snap-l> Yeah, that's what I'm finding
[20:39] <snap-l> I can almost play real-time with Wordfeud
[20:39] <jcastro> yeah
[20:39] <jcastro> this isn't slow
[20:40] <jcastro> I prefer real scrabble since it's the same as the board game
[20:41] <snap-l> I thought you'd prefer Wordfeud because they give you all the vowels, and me all of the consonants. :)
[20:41] <jcastro> heh
[20:41] <snap-l> Couldn't make a fucking word for the beginning of the last game.
[20:41] <snap-l> I'm going to drain out my Words With Friends, and stick with Word Feud
[20:43] <jcastro> yeah for sure WwF is junk, not sure I will stay with wordfued yet
[20:44] <jcastro> it's kind of important to me to play the real scrabble as I play the real game all the time
[20:44] <jcastro> so this doesn't have to be better than wordfeud, just not terrible enough
[20:44] <jcastro> hahah, the android motto: It only needs to not be totally horrible
[20:44] <snap-l> jcastro: We should play a game with random placement
[20:44] <snap-l> that'll sharpen ya. ;)
[20:59] <greg-g> rick_h_: I got my replacement charger in the mail (and it works!). When will I see you in person next?
[21:46] <snap-l> I <3 that there's a catdvi
[21:56] <Blazeix> anyone know of a really good noob HTML/CSS tutorial? I need to find one for an intern, and I really don't want to point him to w3schools or tizag...
[22:05] <Blazeix> hm, I think I remember htmldog not being terrible, maybe I'll send him that.
[22:41] <gamerchick02> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1798769 has anyone in here had this issue? no reply from S76. i'm thinking of calling them tomorrow afternoon.
[22:54] <Blazeix> weird, you'd think someone from S76 would at least acknowledge you.
[22:55] <gamerchick02> yeah
[22:55] <gamerchick02> unless they're all on vacation.
[23:35] <gamerchick02> i did get a reply. isantop was on vacation. heh


[01:20] <key> 哈哈
[01:48] <ledah> hello
[02:16] <gonssal> Hi all. If I already updated to Kmail2 (4.8.5), is it safe to completely remove ~/.kde/share/apps/kmail folder?
[02:40] <DaemonFC> did video calls in telepathy break recently? (using the ppa)
[03:06] <ledah> i installed the realtek audio drivers and now i have a dummy card, already purged and reinstalled alsa and pulseaudio
[04:25] <contrast> Greets, everyone. Anyone know of a fix for this bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/plasma-widget-menubar/+bug/1052192 (besides just not using the menu bar widget)?
[04:37] <dniMretsaM> I need some help with K3b. it won't burn a CD-R. it tells me to use a CD-RW (which I don't have). it's burned CD-Rs of the exact same kind before. it sees my drive and says it has write capabilities for CD-Rs. Any help would be appreciated. K3b 2.0.2 on KDE Platform 4.9.1.
[10:58] <ManDay> Hello, I require urgent assistance. Someone who I'm trying to help remotely over phone gets an error "The permission of the setuid helper is not correct" when trying to log in and subsequently most major components of the system don't work - internet included. This happend since an update two days ago. Does anyone know help?
[11:08] <Peace-> ManDay: mm
[11:08] <Peace-> ManDay: first  any ppa added ?
[11:09] <Peace-> ManDay: what did you do with "update"?
[11:19] <ManDay> Peace-: Nothing, update manager - I just found the solution on Google: dpkg --configure
[11:19] <ManDay> -a
[11:19] <ManDay> Thanks though
[11:22] <Peace-> ManDay: well dpkg --configure -a it means you have stopped an upgrade or something like that
[11:22] <Peace-> and ... of course it's not the best of situation you could have
[11:22] <ManDay> I could not parse yoru sentence
[11:23] <Peace-> dpkg --configure -a = you stop an upgrade when the system is installing stuff
[11:23] <Peace-> and you want your system resume the installation
[11:24] <Peace-> this is good for the most of times but... for some packages stop the installation is not a good thing
[11:24] <ManDay> "you stop"...
[11:24] <ManDay> You're jumping at assumptions, Peace-
[11:24] <Peace-> block ?
[11:25] <Peace-> dpkg  --configure -a = means you have stopped the installation
[11:25] <ManDay> I don't use (K)Ubuntu personally, but in my experience apt-get upgrade is all but working well
[11:25] <ManDay> *I* did not stop anything. Neither did the person I was trying to help, I assume
[11:25] <Peace-> depends if you use some weird ppa or not
[11:25] <ManDay> apt-get / update-manager just fucked it up
[11:26] <Peace-> i have asked before did you add some weird ppa ?  [13:08] <Peace-> ManDay: first  any ppa added ?
[11:26] <Peace-> if yes = it's normal that upgrade can mess yoursystem
[11:26] <ManDay> Peace-: I'm pretty sure I did not.
[11:26] <ManDay> But I cannot answer that definitely
[11:27] <ManDay> As I said I was trying to help remotely over phone
[11:27] <Peace-> well the fast answer is choose another kernel on the boot and try with that
[11:27] <Peace-> but your system could be unusable
[11:28] <Peace-> some people loves use ppa then when they upgrade they forget to remove them
[11:28] <Peace-> and some time system can be useless
[13:12] <oneadvent> hi. I am trying to start netbeans using a gtk theme and I get this message: (java:9998): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in module_path: "crux-engine",
[13:12] <oneadvent> any ideas?
[13:22] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[14:54] <agronholm> has anyone here tried installing 12.10 beta 2?
[14:54] <agronholm> I just did, all I got was a screen full of garbage after the KDE boot
[14:55] <agronholm> first I thought maybe it was due to my laptop being docked, but I removed it from the dock and tried again...same results
[14:55] <agronholm> I cannot install 12.10 AT ALL
[14:56] <Evpok> I have had no problem since the upgrade (02 sept)
[14:56] <Evpok> What do you mean "full of garbage" ?
[14:56] <agronholm> well on the first reboot, it gave me a garbled image with parts from some video buffer remaining from before the reboot
[14:56] <BluesKaj> agronholm, yes   I'm running it ...do you mean the login page , if so , drop to a tty , ctrl+alt+f1 or f2  , login then , startx
[14:57] <agronholm> BluesKaj: I mean, I cannot get the installer image to work
[14:57] <Evpok> Ah, it may be issues with lightdm
[14:57] <agronholm> I boot it, it displays the running counter (where USB keyboard does not work), then starts the boot sequence
[14:57] <Evpok> Though I can't understand why
[14:57] <agronholm> where it shows the KDE gear image
[14:58] <agronholm> when that goes away, my screen is filled with garbage
[14:58] <agronholm> and nothing
[14:58] <agronholm> I can ctrl+alt+f1 and get to the shell, so it's not hanged or anything
[14:58] <agronholm> I took a photo of my screens
[14:58] <agronholm> sec
[14:58] <Evpok> Was it a fresh install on a clean system?
[14:59] <BluesKaj> agronholm, , best to join #ubuntu+1 for support
[14:59] <agronholm> I'm telling you, I was booting the 12.10 beta image
[14:59] <agronholm> alright
[14:59] <Evpok> Oh, right, sorry
[15:57] <Torch_> is it safe to ignore this totally unhelpful message from grub during a security upgrade (as if it had been my decision to make any changes):
[15:57] <Torch_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1249776/
[17:10] <lordievader> Good evening
[17:16] <spooky_ddd> Heey there. Latest beta in VM here, it keeps repeating keys erratically or eating up keeys as I type.
[17:17] <bazhang> spooky_ddd, #ubuntu+1 for 12.10
[17:17] <spooky_ddd> same for kubuntu??
[17:17] <bazhang> yes
[17:21] <gonssal_> Hi all. If I already updated to Kmail2 (4.8.5), is it safe to completely remove ~/.kde/share/apps/kmail folder?
[17:29] <Peace-> gonssal_: ?
[17:29] <Peace-> gonssal_: what do you mean ?
[17:30] <gonssal_> Peace-: i have ~/.kde/share/apps/kmail and kmail2 folders
[17:30] <Peace-> gonssal_: so ?
[17:30] <gonssal_> is it safe to remove the kmail one?
[17:30] <lordievader> Doesn't kmail store the mail there?
[17:30] <gonssal_> i believe it does on kmail2 now?
[17:30] <Peace-> gonssal_: it's a local folder , so that if you remove it  kmail will recreate it .... but you will lost the stuff you have into so ... just remove it
[17:31] <gonssal_> but isn't kmail2 using the kmail2 folder only?
[17:31] <Peace-> gonssal_: RENAME IT
[17:31] <lordievader> That's what I'd say, rename, if nothing breaks you can remove it.
[20:18] <slevsk> .
[20:22] <slevsk> ...
[20:22] <slevsk> :D
[20:23] <BluesKaj> slevsk, ??
[20:33] <Guest29525> Anyone got a minute to help me with my wireless network?
[20:43] <scarface> hello....test..
[20:43] <scarface> ah great....
[21:02] <DaemonFC> does anyone happen to know a handy way to stop Nouveau from loading and to use vesa instead?
[21:05] <rork> DaemonFC: you can select the drivers through "Additional Drivers", I think it's under System in the start menu or just look for drivers in kicker
[21:06] <DaemonFC> I'm not going to get that far. Nouveau is preventing X from loading in Quantal
[21:07] <DaemonFC> I guess I could use the alternate installer then force a safe mode boot and install nvidia from there
[21:08] <DaemonFC> oh, they discontinued the alternate installer *sigh*
[21:09] <rork> I'm afraid I'm not able to help you with that, too long ago that I had to set it from the commandline (un)fortunately
[21:10] <DaemonFC> they need to just stop trying to use Nouveau on Fermi and Kepler by default for now (my opinion)
[21:11] <Sentynel> DaemonFC: assuming you've got a console okay you should just be able to blacklist the nouveau module
[21:12] <DaemonFC> yeah, but Ubuntu doesn't default to having a grub countdown and that makes it very hard to catch the grub menu
[21:21] <ScottyK> Greetings! for the "additional Drivers" for my ATI card, there are two options, the regular driver, and a "post-release update". What is post-release update? Thanks!
[21:22] <DaemonFC> exactly what it sounds like :)
[21:22] <skreech_> ScottyK: I would assume that it's a driver that came out after Kubuntu was released and so hasn[t been through as much beta testing
[21:22] <ScottyK> so that means it will get updates, where the first one will not?
[21:22] <DaemonFC> the regular one is  the version from around March I think, and will not change
[21:23] <ScottyK> so if you want the latest and greatest, go for the post-release?
[21:23] <skreech_> But You can do some research on it to see if it's given other problems or alternatively it fixes an issue you have and then decide if you would like to update to it
[21:23] <skreech_> ScottyK: correct
[21:23] <skreech_> At least if you want the latest
[21:23] <DaemonFC> ScottyK: Yeah
[21:23] <skreech_> I can't vouch for greatest
[21:23] <DaemonFC> latest doesn't always mean greatest :)
[21:23] <DaemonFC> it can, but you can also get regressions
[21:23] <ScottyK> Great, not trying to fix anything major, just a bit of a lag, wondering if the post-release would clear that out
[21:24] <DaemonFC> I'm using 305.51 (which is the latest), and I have not had any problems out of it. I'm just one person with one particular card though.
[21:24] <ScottyK> how do you check what version driver you are using?
[21:25] <DaemonFC> If you think about the hundreds of chipsets and dozens of distributions that Nvidia has to support, it's conceivable that they could have a regression that affects a particular combination of hardware and distribution
[21:25] <DaemonFC> the glxinfo utility should say
[21:25] <DaemonFC> it's in the mesa-utils package
[21:26] <DaemonFC> "OpenGL version string: 4.2.0 NVIDIA 304.51"
[21:26] <ScottyK> download in progress, thanks
[21:26] <DaemonFC> something like that
[21:27] <ScottyK> OpenGL renderer string: AMD Radeon HD 6550D
[21:27] <ScottyK> oops, that's not it
[21:28] <ScottyK> OpenGL version string: 4.2.11627
[21:28] <ScottyK> there it is
[21:28] <ScottyK> This new system I put together, I was going to use my Nvidia GeForce 8600 GS, but the system has so many problems booting. As soon as I removed it and ran with the onboard- problems disappeared.
[21:28] <DaemonFC> a RadeonHD with Crapalyst :)
[21:29] <DaemonFC> great hardware, horrible driver
[21:30] <DaemonFC> they have a 12.9 beta out for that which is much better
[21:30] <slevsk> русские есть? :D
[21:30] <ScottyK> for the Radeon?
[21:30] <DaemonFC> I don't know that anyone has packaged it yet, but generating debs is not too hard from their installer script
[21:30] <DaemonFC> yeah
[21:30] <DaemonFC> it finally fixes KDE direct rendering so you can use the OpenGL 2 backend
[21:31] <DaemonFC> but if you're using KDE 4.8, you'd have to set an environment variable to tell kwin to skip the driver check
[21:31] <ScottyK> yeah I'm on 4.8.5
[21:31] <DaemonFC> 4.9 takes Catalyst off the blacklist o' broken crap if it's newer than 12.6
[21:32] <DaemonFC> indirect rendering is seriously ugly
[21:32] <DaemonFC> Catalyst was the only reason that backend still lives
[21:32] <ScottyK> sounds like I should try and get this nvidia card working again
[21:32] <DaemonFC> Nvidia just gets the OpenGL 2 / direct rendering support and has ever since it was introduced in KDE 4.6
[21:32] <DaemonFC> it's so much more pleasant to deal with
[21:33] <DaemonFC> indirect rendering is much slower and it limits you to OpenGL 1.x
[21:33] <DaemonFC> bugs in older versions of Catalyst caused a multitude of problems, including the entire system hanging if you tried to launch a second OpenGL application :)
[21:33] <ScottyK> Let me ask you this, I've got about $110 to spend on a new video card. I don't do any serious gaming (Grand Theft Auto 4 would be fun to play), What do you recommend?
[21:34] <DaemonFC> Newegg has an EVGA GTX 560 on sale for $159 with a $30 rebate
[21:34] <DaemonFC> if you can go for that, it's your best bet anywhere near that price range right now
[21:35] <DaemonFC> so it works out to $129 after you get the rebate
[21:35] <ScottyK> excellent, thanks for the info!
[21:35] <DaemonFC> but you have to make sure your system can handle it
[21:35] <DaemonFC> it requires two 6 pin adapters straight from the power supply
[21:35] <ScottyK> As luck would have it, I just bought a new PSU, and I have those
[21:36] <DaemonFC> if your power supply doesn't have two 6 pin adapters and at least 28 amps on the 12 volt rail......
[21:36] <DaemonFC> then you can get away with a RadeonHD 7770 with one 6 pin adapter or a 7750 if you don't have one at all
[21:36] <DaemonFC> those would probably be your best bets in either of those cases
[21:37] <DaemonFC> but the Geforce GTX 560 is a much much faster card than a RadeonHD 7770 and it has a much better driver
[21:37] <DaemonFC> with that rebate, it came in $20 cheaper than the 7770
[21:37] <DaemonFC> so I went ahead and upgraded my power supply to deal with it
[21:37] <DaemonFC> B-)
[21:38] <DaemonFC> that's definitely the cheapest card you're going to get with a 256 bit memory bus
[21:38] <ScottyK> excellent, off to browse Newegg for a while!
[21:39] <DaemonFC> yeah, it's a 01G-P3-1461-KR
[21:39] <DaemonFC> see if it still has the rebate for $30, if it does, that's a steal
[21:40] <DaemonFC> that card was $229 in January 2011
[21:40] <DaemonFC> if you're upgrading, it's best to give a serious look at last year's cards first
[21:41] <DaemonFC> the price sinks like a stone past the first year, and you can get something out of last year's mid range for about the same price as this year's low end cards
[21:41] <DaemonFC> and it will walk all over the low end of the new models
[21:41] <ScottyK> that's a better idea. I don't need (and can't afford) the latest and greatest. Just want something better that the on-board stuff I'm running now
[21:42] <DaemonFC> tick "Use FXAA" in the Nvidia driver settings
[21:42] <DaemonFC> it will use fast antialiasing on all OpenGL apps, including kwin
[21:42] <DaemonFC> no jaggies anywhere at all, period
[21:42] <DaemonFC> and the overhead is next to nothing
[21:45] <DaemonFC> ScottyK: I don't suggest going RadeonHD anything unless you're prepared to shell out for Graphics Core Next models, which start with the 7750
[21:46] <DaemonFC> the last series that they had before that which was worth a look was the 5000 models
[21:46] <DaemonFC> what they did to the 6670 was a crime :) (or should be)
[21:47] <DaemonFC> the 5670s all had GDDR 5 memory and they decided to saddle the 6670s with GDDR3 to slow them down to create the price point
[21:47] <DaemonFC> if you look closely, you catch them doing nasty things like that sometimes
[21:48] <DaemonFC> I'd rather have the faster memory than the faster chipset. If you use large display resolutions with slow graphics memory, you'll be really sorry.
[21:52] <skreech_> !ru
[22:16] <scarface> i am trying to unstall compiz on kubuntu but give me error....any help plz..
[22:16] <ikonia> you need to explain the error
[22:17] <scarface> ah ok i have to go now i will continue tomorow ...
[22:18] <scarface> thanks for the quiq answer...
[23:25] <eamon> noob question: Where can I get a Kubuntu Live-CD? I can only see install CDs on the downlad page - can I boot live with those?
[23:27] <Obsidian1723> yes.


[00:06] <Traveler> no configure/make experts around lately ?
[00:31] <MutantTurkey> ubuntu = fail for development. end of discussion
[00:31] <MutantTurkey> circular depends, all sorts of crap i've run into. version problems. meh.
[00:32] <MutantTurkey> lets laugh at this link : http://xkcd.com/754/
[00:32] <PennBot> Title: xkcd: Dependencies (at xkcd.com)
[00:43] <Traveler> It shoulda been cpsc432 - cpsc433 prereq       and   cpsc433 - cpsc432 prereq
[00:58] <MutantTurkey> hehe
[02:14] <maciej_> why can't i change a folder permissions to read only after sudo nautiluis
[02:14] <ChinnoDog> Are you on 10.10?
[02:14] <maciej_> yes
[02:15] <ChinnoDog> just a sec. trying it.
[02:15] <maciej_> after i change the file acces to read only as root it jumps back to "-"
[02:16] <ChinnoDog> oh, you mean on the top part of the permissions tab?
[02:17] <maciej_> yeah
[02:17] <ChinnoDog> I think it is because that field is not relevant when setting permissions on a folder
[02:17] <maciej_> i need to copy a folder to my sd card on my android phone but it has to be read only
[02:17] <andrew> evening
[02:19] <ChinnoDog> maciej_: then set folder access to "list files only"
[02:19] <ChinnoDog> If you 'ls -l' you will see that it only sets the read flag on the folder.
[02:21] <maciej_> ok i see now, im very new at this, thank you
[02:21] <ChinnoDog> maciej_: who are you protecting the folder from?
[02:22] <maciej_> the folder has audio.ogg files that i want to use for my ringtones but last i tried to copy the file to the android system it could only be read only
[02:22] <ChinnoDog> Meaning it was not selectable as a ringtone if it was not read only?
[02:23] <maciej_> i couldn't place the folder in the audio section of android , i was moving the folder from my sd card
[02:24] <maciej_> let me see if it works
[02:28] <ChinnoDog> Are you putting the file in /sdcard/ringtones or /syste/media/audio/ringtones?
[02:28] <ChinnoDog> oops
[02:28] <ChinnoDog> /system/media/audio/ringtones
[02:29] <maciej_> system media audio ringtones
[02:31] <ChinnoDog> The files in there are mode 644
[02:32] <ChinnoDog> root is owner and has write access. Are you saying android complains if group or other access has +w?
[02:33] <ChinnoDog> There are ringtones in here I didn't even know existed. They must have come down with an OTA update.
[02:34] <maciej_> i couldn't copy the folder, the folder has permissions rwxrwxr-x
[02:35] <maciej_> i may just need to find an app that lets me change the folder permissions on android
[02:35] <maciej_> i dont understand why i can't make a folder read only on ubuntu
[02:35] <ChinnoDog> oh. I am browsing the file system from connectbot on the phone...
[02:36] <maciej_> are you able to long press on a folder and have an option to change permissions?
[02:36] <ChinnoDog> I'm browsing from a terminal
[02:36] <ChinnoDog> Astro might let you do it. I don't currently have it installed
[02:36] <maciej_> why is it so hard to make a folder read only on here, i may try on windwos, i know its a simple check box to make a folder read only
[02:37] <ChinnoDog> I still don't understand why you want the folder to be read only..
[02:37] <ChinnoDog> You want more permissions, not less
[02:37] <ChinnoDog> unix permisisons and windows permissions work differently. The result is the same as what I told you.
[02:38] <maciej_> when i move the folder with the ogg files to system/media/audio/notifications- a warning says cannot paste here because the file system is read only
[02:39] <maciej_> maybe i need to change permissions of the folder i'm trying to copy to
[02:39] <ChinnoDog> Did you root the phone?
[02:39] <maciej_> yeah
[02:39] <ChinnoDog> So you can just log into it with a terminal and change the permissions on the folder there.
[02:41] <maciej_> terminal on android?
[02:41] <ChinnoDog> Yes, like ConnectBot
[02:41] <ChinnoDog> I use Irssi ConnectBot which was forked to make using irssi easier in the terminal
[02:41] <ChinnoDog> But, why are you so resistant to putting you ringtone on your SD card?
[02:41] <ChinnoDog> s/you/your
[02:43] <maciej_> i guess i dont have to put the new notifications with the system notifications, android will just scan the disk youre saying?
[02:43] <ChinnoDog> According to this it will: http://androidforums.com/android-lounge/5930-definitive-androids-folder-structure.html
[02:44] <ChinnoDog> PennBot: Are you awake?
[02:44] <PennBot> Dunno, ChinnoDog.
[02:44] <ChinnoDog> andrew: Is PennBot's web browser broken?
[02:44] <maciej_> thats easy enough
[02:45] <ChinnoDog> So you were just making this difficult this whole time?  hehe
[02:45] <maciej_> yes
[02:47] <andrew> PennBot: ping
[02:47] <PennBot> pong
[02:47] <andrew> http://www.google.com
[02:47] <PennBot> Title: Google (at www.google.com)
[02:47] <andrew> http://androidforums.com/android-lounge/5930-definitive-androids-folder-structure.html
[02:47] <andrew> hmm
[02:48] <ChinnoDog> Guess we were no longer useful to her.
[02:48] <andrew> dunno
[02:49] <ChinnoDog> http://www.google.com
[02:49] <PennBot> Title: Google (at www.google.com)
[02:49] <ChinnoDog> Must be the url?
[02:49] <ChinnoDog> http://www.google.com/index.html
[02:49] <PennBot> Title: Google (at www.google.com)
[02:51] <ChinnoDog> http://androidforums.com
[02:51] <ChinnoDog> http://www.androidforums.com
[02:51] <ChinnoDog> andrew: PennBot doesn't like this web site I guess?
[02:51] <andrew> or the website returns something different for his user-agent?
[02:52] <ChinnoDog> What user-agent is he sending?
[02:52] <andrew> dunno off hand
[02:52] <andrew> give him a url that you can pull the logs from
[02:52] <ChinnoDog> http://www.chinnodog.com
[02:52] <PennBot> Title: ChinnoDogs blog - Just me and my inflatable life. (at www.chinnodog.com)
[02:53] <ChinnoDog> <IP_ADDRESS> - - [30/Jan/2011:21:53:44 -0500] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 15952 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Compatible; Supybot <IP_ADDRESS>)"
[02:54] <andrew> try switching your user agent to that and visiting the android site
[02:54] <ChinnoDog> idk how to do that in chrome
[02:54] <ChinnoDog> I guess I could override it in ff
[02:54] <andrew> neither do i off hand
[02:54] <ChinnoDog> oh. I don't have that plugin installed
[02:56] <MutantTurkey>  chrome hmmm?
[02:57] <MutantTurkey> does ubuntu provide chrome or chromium?
[02:58] <andrew> ium
[02:58] <ChinnoDog> I use chrome from the google repo i think
[02:58] <andrew> but chrome is easy enough to install
[03:04] <ChinnoDog> ah. I got the Modify Headers extension working in chrome
[03:04] <ChinnoDog> I mean ff, not chrome
[03:05] <ChinnoDog> andrew: androidforums.com looks the same with this header...
[03:07] <ChinnoDog> Must be a genuine bug
[03:07] <andrew> dunno
[03:08] <andrew> report it then
[03:16] <ChinnoDog> andrew: What category is this?  plugin or core module?
[03:16] <ChinnoDog> or 3rd party?
[03:25] <andrew> plugin
[03:35] <ChinnoDog> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3168483&group_id=58965&atid=489447
[03:35] <PennBot> Title: SourceForge.net: Supybot: Detail: 3168483 - Can't retrieve info for androidforums.com (at sourceforge.net)
[06:05] <Traveler> what does this line in a script do?    ac_res=-l$ac_lib
[06:09] <Traveler> everyone sawin' zzzz's already ?
[06:35] <Traveler> restarting
[12:45] <Traveler> so quiet around here
[12:45] <Traveler> GOOD MORNING !!!!
[12:48] <SamuraiAlba> Good bacon to all!
[13:01] <JonathanD> morning
[13:01] <JonathanD> I hope you brought enough for the whole class.
[14:01] <Traveler> Well, I FINALLY made the install work.   I am now UNdeleting "permanently" deleted files from an ext4 file system.
[14:12] <Traveler> now boot back to normal system
[16:58] <ChinnoDog> sup, turkey?
[19:20] <ChinnoDog> WokFi++
[19:20] <ChinnoDog> Why didn't I think of that?
[20:07] <ChinnoDog> "Additional sleet accumulation up to 1 inch"
[20:07] <ChinnoDog> That is a lot of ice
[20:08] <pleia2> sheesh, you guys are having another busy winter
[20:08] <JonathanD> weather people told us this would be a "mild winter"
[20:08] <pleia2> not truth
[20:09] <JonathanD> maybe they meant in australia.
[20:09] <JonathanD> wait, hasn't been mild there either.
[20:09] <ChinnoDog> Phil's not going to be able to come out of his hole this year
[20:09] <waltman> Nor has it been winter.
[20:10] <ChinnoDog> s/Phil's not/Phil isn't/ (idk how I did that...)
[20:10] <waltman> either way works
[20:11] <ChinnoDog> "Phil's" doesn't work last I checked. It denotes posession, not a contraction.
[20:12] <pleia2> it's a contraction for "Phil is"
[20:12] <pleia2> it's fine
[20:13] <waltman> what pleia2 said
[20:13] <waltman> pleia2: we don't even want to know what the weather's like in SF today, do we?
[20:13] <ChinnoDog> Since when can you use an apostrophe after the noun as a contraction?
[20:13] <pleia2> waltman: nope
[20:14] <pleia2> the general rule I use is "thing's" ok if it can be expanded to "thing is"
[20:14] <pleia2> or if it's actually posesseive
[20:14] <waltman> ChinnoDog: It's a common contraction.
[20:14] <pleia2> "she's going to the store"
[20:14] <waltman> It's a common contraction."
[20:18] <ChinnoDog> http://blog.writersdigest.com/qq/Contractions+With+Proper+Nouns+Brians+A+Baseball+Fan.aspx
[20:18] <ChinnoDog> I guess your right, there is no rule against it
[20:18] <PennBot> Title: Writer's Digest Questions and Quandaries - Contractions With Proper Nouns (Brian's a baseball Fan) (at blog.writersdigest.com)
[20:18] <ChinnoDog> I never use it with a proper noun though.
[20:19] <ChinnoDog> I do use it with personal pronouns though
[20:20] <ChinnoDog> That is interesting... a convention I was unaware I was following.
[20:23] <waltman> ChinnoDog: Hint -- when questioning proper apostrophe usage, perhaps it's a good idea to not confuse your and you're :)
[20:24] <ChinnoDog> :-p Yes, you're right. I do that all the time.
[20:24] <pleia2> english is hard
[20:25] <jedijf> your/you're is my fail...until i hit enter then i realize it...need a takeback button
[20:26] <waltman> That's why I try to stick with "ur" :)
[20:26] <ChinnoDog> PennBot needs a grammer check so he can be sure we are all speaking the King's English.
[20:26] <PennBot> Got it, ChinnoDog.
[20:27] <waltman> It's really odd how that works.  I do that all the time, too.  I guess they're mapped together in my brain somehow.
[20:28] <jedijf> i blame it on rushing or multitasking
[20:28] <jedijf> which i know humans can't do.....
[20:28] <jedijf> but i try and fail constantly.....
[20:29] <ChinnoDog> The first time I saw "we've cheeseburger" I didn't like that either, but I had to accept that usage too.
[20:30] <waltman> ChinnoDog: That's more of a British usage. It's not common in USAnian English.
[20:30] <ChinnoDog> The person that wrote it was British. :-)
[20:31] <ChinnoDog> Or at least, that is where he learned English. He had an accent.
[20:45] <andrew> pleia2: Do you have a problem with our weekly midweek winter storms?
[20:46] <pleia2> andrew: problem? no
[20:46] <pleia2> a little sad that PA didn't decide to let loose with the awesome winters until I left though
[20:48] <andrew> Come back! It's not too late
[20:52] <JonathanD> Does anyone happen to have a thinkpad x200? :)
[23:00] <SamuraiAlba> good bacon to all!


[10:18] <tomti> What is the easiest way to find the latest official kernel version for a particular ubuntu release? I tried apt-cache show|madison|showpkg but none give what I want
[10:48] <genkgo> afw: We spoke yesterday on the read-only filesystem issue with ubuntu (3.13/ext4) vs centos (3.10/xfs) inside a HyperV platform. We created a new VPS and started to backup the machine hourly. This machine just went into read-only state and I grabbed info from dmesg: http://pastebin.com/48CK60Hi and /proc/mounts http://pastebin.com/WwLej7r7 as you told me.
[10:50] <genkgo> afw: the machine is still in read-only mode, so if you need more info, please let me know.
[11:16] <infinity> genkgo: Nothing earlier in dmesg before that?   Looks like the (fake) disk driver exploding.
[11:19] <genkgo> infinity: yes, http://pastebin.com/DTmvZgHS
[11:20] <genkgo> infinity: the lines I just added happen during every VSS backup
[11:22] <genkgo> infinity: I explained yesterday to afw that I have four machines, three ubuntu 3.13.0-52 with ext4 and one with centos 3.10.0-123 with xfs. The Ubuntu go into read-only mode randomly while the CentOS machine is doing fine.
[11:24] <genkgo> infinity: Sorry, go randomly into read-only while HyperV is creating a backup of the four machines (in a row, not simultaneously). That could be during a backup of the specific is created but also at the end of the complete backup process.
[11:24] <genkgo> * of the specific machine
[11:26] <xnox> .... hyperv backup does freeze on to the filesystems and devices.
[11:26] <xnox> and expects the freeze & unfreeze to work...
[11:26] <genkgo> lifeless showed me a picture of the HyperV VSS process: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa384589(v=vs.85).aspx confirming information is exchanged between the hyperv cluster and the guest machines at the end of a backup
[11:27] <genkgo> xnox: yes, that is confirmed on the link I just pasted
[11:27] <genkgo> but why do the ubuntu machines go into read-only mode while the centos is doing fine?
[11:28] <genkgo> xnox: and what does the dmesg http://pastebin.com/48CK60Hi output tell me?
[11:29] <genkgo> except from being in read-only: we knew that, I cannot find a cause in the message.
[11:30] <xnox> writting journal was aborted, then time jumps 200ms, journal is attempted to be read and is incomplete.
[11:30] <genkgo> ok, and this means filesystem inconsistency and therefore ubuntu kernel switch the filesystem to read-only?
[11:30] <xnox> imho that smells like "sync" did not complete, yet "freeze" returned and backup kicked in thus expoding at "thaw" and remounting ro
[11:32] <genkgo> xnox: do you have any advice what to do? I have machines in production that are affected by this, causing downtime.
[11:33] <genkgo> afw asked me yesterday to file a bug if I knew what was going on (dmesg). Now I have that information. Is it a bug? Is it Ubuntu Kernel related?
[11:33] <xnox> dunno, i would have asked cking to stress test freezing/unfreezing vms under I/O workload to figure out what's going on.
[11:33] <xnox> it should be reproducible outside hypervm
[11:34] <xnox> not sure who afw is, you mean apw?
[11:34] <genkgo> xnox: sorry, I mean apw indeed :)
[11:35] <apw> genkgo, well you have a pretty clear disk error there
[11:35] <apw> end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 65127256
[11:35] <apw> that IO failed so the filesystem wen't offline
[11:35] <genkgo> apw: ok, so you guess bad hardware?
[11:35] <apw> genkgo, i would like to see more of the dmesg before that
[11:36] <apw> genkgo, it is a VM so it is likely not actual h/w failure, it presumably is talking about a virtual disk
[11:36] <xnox> also it would be interesting to know how hyperv initiates vm freeze... given that we probably lack fsfreeze and xfs_freeze userspace tools in 14.04
[11:36] <genkgo> apw: http://pastebin.com/DTmvZgHS contains the other lines (I also showed you yesterday). Would you like me to include boot sequence too? Because there is nothing more in between.
[11:37] <apw> genkgo, if you showed afw yesterday, then i'd have not noticed
[11:37] <xnox> genkgo: use pate.canonical.com and show everything =)
[11:37] <genkgo> hehe :)
[11:37] <xnox> genkgo: also paste.ubuntu.com works nicer with pastebinit utility ;-)
[11:39] <apw> genkgo, remind me of the kernel version again
[11:43] <apw> genkgo, and do the ones which do not fail also report those changed operating definition
[11:44] <genkgo> apw: yes, they do
[11:44] <genkgo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11112285/
[11:45] <apw> i see you are using 3.13 kernels on these hyper-v guests, we are mostly producing images with HWE kernels installed for hyper-v
[11:46] <apw> because the hypervisor interface is evolving so very fast at the moment
[11:46] <apw> genkgo, that one also shows an aborted journal
[11:46] <apw> [66392.076569] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 65127256
[11:46] <apw> [66392.076610] Aborting journal on device sda5-8.
[11:47] <genkgo> apw: correct, this is is full output of dmesg
[11:47] <genkgo> of the same machine
[11:47] <apw> or is that a change for each backup, and only the last output if the only one which failed
[11:47] <genkgo> yeah, we replicated a machine as test machine yesterday, started backup hourly until the system went into read-only, which just happened
[11:48] <genkgo> this is the full output from boot yesterday untill now
[11:48] <genkgo> apw: we are using 3.13 kernels for all ubuntu machines (the centos one is using 3.10)
[11:49] <apw> genkgo, is the centos running the same workload as the ubuntu machines in the backup set ?
[11:50] <xnox> genkgo: ....  centos is xfs which always had freeze support, e.g. ext2 only gained freeze support in 3.19 kernel.
[11:50] <genkgo> yeah, every machine has other purposes and therefore other services, but yeah, I think there is no difference in load
[11:50] <xnox> genkgo: plus centos version numbers are a bit pointless, as 3.10 can have eons of cherrypicked patches.
[11:50] <apw> genkgo, i mean are they doing the exact same things?  i'd say the one which has failed had an IO in flight when the change request popped out and that has made it go pop
[11:50] <xnox> and we default to mounting ext2 filesystems with the ext4 driver. so logs are different.
[11:51] <genkgo> xnox: I noticed we are on version 3.10.0-123 so yeah I imagined the pataches
[11:51] <xnox> imho you should _only_ be using hwe kernels on hyperv.
[11:51] <genkgo> apw: no, in that case they are doing really different things
[11:51] <xnox> apw: centos is usind different filesystem type....
[11:51] <genkgo> centos is doing mail (imap and smtp)
[11:52] <xnox> as in no IO at all...
[11:52] <genkgo> while two ubuntu machines are handling http requests
[11:52] <xnox> which logs all the time to disk...
[11:53] <genkgo> the final ubuntu is helper machine with all kinds of services (tomcat / libreoffice converter etc.)
[11:54] <genkgo> xnox: so you are saying we should switch filesystem?
[11:55] <xnox> genkgo: no.
[11:55] <xnox> genkgo: i am saying it's uneven comparison with centos. oranges and apples.
[11:55] <genkgo> xnox: ok
[11:56] <xnox> genkgo: you should switch to our hwe kernels, and check if you can reproduce this with 3.19 - vivid's kernel.
[11:56] <xnox> genkgo: and azure people want ubuntu to use 3.19 kernel and better... to get the ext2 freeze support
[11:57] <xnox> cause default server config uses ext2 + lvm volume group and they can't freeze that for backup across the board.
[11:57] <xnox> on other clouds we default to hwe kernels. e.g. on ec2 and similar.
[11:59] <genkgo> xnox: ok, I will do that. switching to xfs makes no sense?
[11:59] <xnox> genkgo: we cannot do that, no.
[11:59] <xnox> genkgo: we are talking about all ubuntu vms launched in azure, not just your three vms.
[12:00] <genkgo> xnox: allright, I never meant to talk about all ubuntu vms
[12:00] <genkgo> xnox: so I leave to fs to ext4 and upgrade to HWE kernels
[12:01] <genkgo> being 3.19
[12:02] <genkgo> xnox: this page does not indicate there is a 3.19 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[12:04] <genkgo> xnox: is this the ppa ppa:canonical-kernel-team/ppa I should use?
[12:05] <xnox> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-lts-vivid
[12:05] <xnox> it's in proposed
[12:06] <genkgo> xnox: thank you very much for helping me out
[12:06] <genkgo> I will install it and see what happends
[12:17] <apw> genkgo, if this is a test box, i would suggest that you run a test using the linux-lts-utopic
[12:17] <apw> as in theory that is what is being tested in majority in azure
[12:18] <genkgo> apw: I am already installed 3.19 on the test machine, using sudo add-apt-repository ppa:canonical-kernel-team/ppa, sudo apt-get install linux-generic-lts-vivid
[12:26] <genkgo> hmm, now I am into dependency troubles
[12:37] <genkgo> hmm, this dependency issue is harder than I had before
[12:39] <genkgo> dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe)
[12:39] <genkgo> while trying to install tools and could tools
[12:44] <genkgo> trying to overwrite '/usr/bin/perf', which is also in package linux-tools-common 3.13.0-52.86
[12:44] <genkgo> I see this was a problem before
[12:44] <genkgo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1410278
[12:46] <genkgo> I cannot remove reinstall 3.19
[13:15] <genkgo> xnox: how should I install hv-kvp-daemon-init in combination with vivid kernel?
[13:16] <genkgo> if I just do apt-get install I asks me to install the cloud tools of the older kernel
[13:16] <genkgo> 3.13
[13:16] <genkgo> I now have 3.19 + tools + cloud tools
[13:17] <genkgo> but no hv-kvp-daemon-init
[13:24] <apw> linux-cloud-tools-lts-vivid perhaps ?
[13:26] <genkgo> apw: that is already installed
[13:27] <genkgo> apw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11113627/
[13:28] <genkgo> And I am currently on 3.19.0-17-generic.
[14:04] <genkgo> xnox: apw: There is no current release of this source package in The Vivid Vervet (hv-kvp-daemon-init).
[14:04] <apw> genkgo, hv-kvp-daemon-init should not be needed
[14:05] <apw> those are carried in the kernel now
[14:05] <genkgo> ah alright, perfect
[14:06] <apw> and /usr/sbin/hv_kvp_daemon  should start it, and it should be being started automatically from upstart
[14:06] <genkgo> apw: there is a binary over there
[14:07] <apw> did it start correctly thought
[14:07] <apw> though
[14:08] <genkgo> apw: it is not in the list of processes, I only see hv_vmbus_con hv_vmbus_ctl
[14:09] <genkgo> apw: I do see some additional errors in dmesg when booting
[14:09] <genkgo> visorutil: module is from the staging directory, the quality is unknown, you have been warned
[14:10] <genkgo> and some visorchannel errors
[14:10] <apw> genkgo, what does "initctl status | grep hv" sat
[14:10] <apw> say
[14:11] <genkgo> initctl: missing job name
[14:11] <apw> sorry initctl list | grep hv
[14:11] <genkgo> empty
[14:11] <apw> this is trusty right?  so it is running upstart ?
[14:11] <genkgo> apw: this is vivid
[14:12] <apw> oh now we are getting confused, i thought it was trusty with lts-vivid installed ?
[14:12] <genkgo> this 14.04 with vivid
[14:12] <apw> so trusty right
[14:12] <genkgo> :) yes
[14:12] <apw> with the hew vivid kernel
[14:12] <genkgo> yes
[14:12] <apw> hwe
[14:13] <apw> and "initctl list | head" has jobs listed
[14:13] <genkgo> apw: yes, there are jobs
[14:13] <apw> ls -l /etc/init/hv-*
[14:13] <genkgo> and I installed the kernel by sudo add-apt-repository ppa:canonical-kernel-team/ppa, sudo apt-get install linux-generic-lts-vivid
[14:14] <apw> and do you have the hv- init configuration ?
[14:14] <genkgo> ls: cannot access /etc/init/hv-*: No such file or directory
[14:15] <genkgo> apw: I guess not, before I just install cloud tools and tools together with the hv daemon
[14:16] <genkgo> http://apt-browse.org/browse/ubuntu/trusty/main/all/linux-cloud-tools-common/3.13.0-24.46/file/etc/init/hv-kvp-daemon.conf
[14:16] <genkgo> apw: should I add that file?
[14:16] <apw> well if you have linux-cloud-tools-lts-vivid installed you should have linunx-cloud-tools-common installed as a dependancy
[14:19] <genkgo> apw: I have linux-lts-vivid-cloud-tools-common installed
[14:19] <genkgo> not linux-cloud-tools-common
[14:19] <genkgo> if I do, it tries to install the 3.13.0 one
[14:20] <apw> i don't believe i expect there to _be_ an linux-lts-vivid-cloud-tools-common
[14:20] <apw> and yes i expect it to use the 3.13 common one, as it is common to _all_ versions
[14:20] <apw> it only carries the wrapper scripts which are common
[14:20] <apw> and the same between them all
[14:20] <genkgo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11113627/
[14:21] <apw> well that seems bust to me
[14:21] <genkgo> apw, so I should remove the linux-lts-vivid-cloud-tools-common
[14:22] <genkgo> an install the common one again
[14:22] <apw> if it will let you yes, as i think the vivid one is empty.  it should also not exist
[14:22] <apw> if it is a depenency of linux-cloud-tools-generic-lts-vivid or whatever you installed, then it is broke
[14:25] <genkgo> ok, so now I have common tools and cloud tools (3.13.0-52.86) and the vivid kernel
[14:25] <genkgo> hv-kvp-daemon stop/waiting
[14:25] <apw> it think this kernel may have broken tools dependancies
[14:25] <genkgo> same for vss and fcopy daemons
[14:25] <apw> i am looking at it
[14:27] <genkgo> apw: I changed the linux-lts-vivid-cloud-tools to the common one
[14:27] <genkgo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11114346/
[14:27] <genkgo> but the hv daemons are not starting
[14:28] <apw> yep, and it has deinstalled the actual daemons
[14:28] <apw> i think this is just broken
[14:28] <apw> and i am not sure the utopic one is any better
[14:28]  * apw checks properly
[14:29] <genkgo> apw: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1410278
[14:59] <genkgo> apw: is it broken indeed?
[18:00] <smoser> hey... wonder if someone could confirm my suspicion / conclusion in bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/curtin/+bug/1443542
[18:04] <smoser> maybe, wonder if there is a way to acheive what i want there, without monitoring udev hooks myself or somethingto that effect.
[19:40] <apw> smoser, welll i can say whne you do the reread ioctl the udev message has been queued before we return to you
[19:41] <apw> whether udev would include pending ones it has not yet read in its idea of pending is still in the air
[19:42] <smoser> hm..
[19:42] <smoser>    udevadm settle [options]
[19:42] <smoser>        Watches the udev event queue, and exits if all current events are
[19:42] <smoser>        handled.
[19:42] <smoser> what else would be the point, apw ?
[19:47] <apw> smoser, i'd say it ought to see them, to my reading of that english, which is of course not the source code
[19:49] <apw> smoser, all i can really for sure say is if you did the reread ioctl, and that returned 0 then it will have completed the:
[19:49] <apw>         kobject_uevent(&disk_to_dev(disk)->kobj, KOBJ_CHANGE);
[19:50] <apw> that is that that has been queued to all listeners
[19:51] <smoser> apw, k. thanks.
[19:51] <smoser> now i'm back to not knowing what was wrong.
[19:52] <smoser> i think you shot my theory
[19:52] <smoser> rbasak, ^ just fyi.
[20:02] <apw> smoser, and from what i can see in udev that even it we got out of the kernel and into udevadm settle before udev is woken to read the event, we will read the event before checkign if we are idle and responding
[20:02] <apw> to the settle
[20:03] <smoser> apw, so i think you're saying that it should work like i originally expected / coded for.
[20:04] <smoser>  a.) echo "2048," | sfdisk /dev/sda
[20:04] <smoser>  b.) blockdev --rereadpt
[20:04] <smoser>  c.) udevadm settle
[20:04] <smoser>  d.) expect /dev/sda1 to exist
[20:04] <smoser> right?
[20:04] <apw> smoser, though i guess it depends if more than one is produced
[20:05] <apw> smoser, and whether you are waiting for the second one
[20:05] <smoser> more than one?
[20:05] <apw> yes, the event i listed was the "device has changed" for i assume sda in this case
[20:05] <apw> is it sda1 you are waiting for ?
[20:07] <smoser> yes.
[20:08] <smoser> so are you saying that the kernel would emit "device_has_changed(sda)", then return from blockdev, then subsequently emit "device_has_changed(sda1)" ?
[20:08] <smoser> that would seem unfortunate.
[20:08] <apw> smoser, oh ... but ... actually the interface for settle is a bit odd, it is actually using a file in /run
[20:08] <apw> smoser, no it queues them all i believe before returning 0
[20:09] <smoser> and then udevadm settle *should* wait until it has processed the entire queue
[20:09] <smoser> at least it says it will.
[20:09] <smoser> (or 120 seconds, but i dont htink thats the issue here)
[20:12] <apw> so i think although it is using a file, it is interlocking with udevd by pinging it, so they at least think they are doing the right thing
[20:12] <apw> do you get the events in the end in your scenario ?
[20:12] <apw> smoser, ^
[20:13] <smoser> well, all i have to go on is the bug at this point.
[20:13] <smoser> and the code i pointed to
[20:20] <smoser> apw, thanks for your help.
[20:20] <rbasak> smoser: I think beisner said he can reliably reproduce it?
[20:20] <smoser> yeah, but i can't have access at the moment.
[20:21] <rbasak> I guess maybe the next step is to log udev events and compare the timing of those to the timing of the commands
[20:22] <smoser> yeah... given apw's assesement, i think maybe we're in a different path than i originally thought.
 that is that that has been queued to all listeners
[20:23] <rbasak> apw: does that definitely mean that it's visible to udev in userspace by that point?
[20:24] <apw> rbasak, to my understanding of the netlink code yes
[20:24] <rbasak> I know that's what you're saying; just want to eliminate the possibility of there being some other queue in kernelspace in the way
[20:24] <rbasak> OK, thanks.
[20:24] <rbasak> Then I wonder if there's a race in udev between reading that and handling "settle".
[20:25] <apw> rbasak, there may be, but it is at least claiming to handle the proposed race
[20:25] <rbasak> Understood
[20:25] <apw> rbasak, but i also don't think we have any proof the right thing was actually done yet ... ie that the do appear
[20:25] <apw> (the events)
[20:26] <rbasak> I am curious enough to dig into udev's source, but I'm busy this evening
[20:26]  * rbasak should go
[20:54] <smoser> rbasak, apw http://paste.ubuntu.com/11119254/
[20:55] <smoser> i can get that to fail.
[20:55] <smoser> like:
[20:55] <smoser> BLKRRPART: Device or resource busy
[20:55] <smoser> waitfor after partition2 failed
[20:55] <smoser> i think that the script is doing all sane things.
[20:56] <apw> what says BLKRRPART: De...
[20:58] <smoser> blockdev
[20:58] <smoser> i thikn
[20:58] <smoser> but i can patch to make sure
[20:58] <apw> so the wait is bound to fail, as you didn't actually do the partition reload
[20:59] <apw> which might indicate something has one of the partitions open
[20:59] <smoser> tomomrrow.
[20:59] <smoser> ?
[20:59] <apw> if the blockdev failed, then it didn't change anything
[20:59] <apw> and didn't emit anything to wait for
[21:00] <smoser> sorry. i have to run. oi'll look more tomorrow.
[21:08] <nessita> jsalisbury, hi, quick question, in the audio bug you mention kernel /v4.1-rc3-vivid/ but I only see v4.1-rc2-vivid in http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[21:08] <nessita> jsalisbury, shall I try v4.1-rc2-vivid or v4.1-rc3-unstable
[21:58] <jsalisbury> nessita, I would suggest v4.1-rc3