[00:06] <ScottK> Someone could look at kdenetwork and figure out what to do about libortp-dev being in Universe.
[00:06] <ScottK> off to cook dinner.
[00:07] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: I don't understand...I change some symbols files, yes, but my package is already in archive lol
[00:07] <Lex79> *changed
[00:07] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: but are bzr and the archive in sync?
[00:07] <Lex79> looking
[00:09] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: seems not
[00:39] <Lex79> kdeartwork is funny, JontheEchidna are you going to fix the mess in bzr for kdelibs?
[00:45] <ScottK> Lex79: Please clean it up then.
[00:45] <Lex79> I'm doing
[00:45] <ScottK> Great.
[00:45] <Lex79> ever
[00:45] <Lex79> :P
[00:49] <Lex79> ScottK: uhm, bzr is sync with archive + Jon changes, no changes in symbol file http://pastebin.ca/1706275
[00:49] <ScottK> Lex79: Odd.  Maybe I had on old one from the PPA.
[00:49]  * ScottK tries again.
[00:49] <ScottK> Thanks for looking.
[00:49] <Lex79> no problem
[00:50] <Lex79> the package in ppa have different symbol files due to different version of the package (~ppaX)
[00:54] <ScottK> Lex79: My fault.  I still had ninja PPA in my sources and it had 4.3.80a, so it got pulled
[00:54] <ScottK> Thanks again.
[00:54] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: its up?
[00:54] <ScottK> Getting there
[00:54] <DarkwingDuck> kk
[00:55] <DarkwingDuck> just got hm. its a flipping zoo down here
[00:55] <ScottK> Lex79 and JontheEchidna: All better now.
[00:56] <JontheEchidna> yay, kdebase-runtime built
[00:57] <ScottK> \o/
[00:57] <Daskreech> DarkwingDuck: Poop from the ceiling ?
[00:58] <ScottK> The depwait stuff is fixed for now, so stuff should try to build on their own once it's published
[00:59] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Uploaded.
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> \o/
[00:59] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I think it's just edu and artwork now.
[01:00]  * ScottK goes off to dinner.
[01:01] <DarkwingDuck> im in SoCal... 3 inches of rain today... 240 car crashes today alone
[01:22] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36555435/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-amd64.libattica_0.1.0~svn1055247-0ubuntu1~karmic1~ppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[01:23] <Lex79> libattica ftbs in staging due to dh --with kde clean, dh: unable to load addon kde
[01:23] <JontheEchidna> switching to kde.mk like other stuff from karmic should be very easy (and also fix it)
[01:24] <Lex79> ok
[01:25] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: this? include /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/qt-kde-team/1/debian-qt-kde.mk
[01:25] <JontheEchidna> nope
[01:25] <JontheEchidna> find kde.mk karmic
[01:25] <JontheEchidna> !find kde.mk karmic
[01:25] <JontheEchidna> :P
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[01:26] <Lex79> lol
[01:26] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: cdbs?
[01:26] <Lex79> /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/makefiles/1/cdbs/kde.mk
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/makefiles/1/cdbs/kde.mk
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> yes!
[01:26] <Lex79> perfect
[01:26] <Daskreech> !info kde
[01:27] <Daskreech> !info kubuntu-desktop
[01:27] <Daskreech> That's what I thought
[01:37] <Lex79> after 10 uploads, I'm beginning to hate kdeartwork
[01:38] <ScottK> ;-)
[01:39] <Daskreech> but it's so puuuurty
[01:40] <Lex79> :)
[01:41] <nixternal> is lucid in shams right now?
[01:42] <Daskreech> Lex79: what's up with KDE-pim ?
[01:43] <ScottK> Not for pre-alpha 1, no.
[01:47] <Lex79> kdepim is not in archive yet
[01:48] <Daskreech> Ok just checking
[01:49] <JontheEchidna> All kde apps seem to be stuck in a loop searching for localization information
[01:50] <JontheEchidna> strace shows it trying to read things over and over again from /usr/share/locale
[01:50] <Daskreech> Riddell is i10n ?
[01:50] <nicklas_> ok
[01:50] <Lex79> btw about kdepim, we should remove from the archive Bilbo, now is Blogilo and is part of kdepim
[01:50]  * Daskreech announces Minion
[01:51] <Daskreech> JontheEchidna: Would you like a new minion ?
[01:51] <nicklas_> anyone have that link for the ubuntu packaging guide?
[01:51] <Lex79> maybe this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[01:52] <nicklas_> that will take some time to read :-P
[01:52] <Lex79> eheh :)
[01:52] <Daskreech> :-D
[01:53] <Lex79> Daskreech: or this http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ :P
[01:54] <nicklas_> and im too tired to do it now, tomorrow 02.53 am here
[01:54] <Daskreech> nicklas_: No problem. Bookmarks Rock!
[01:59] <Lex79> oh kdeartwork built \o/
[02:00] <Daskreech> whoot now will it upload?
[02:00] <Daskreech> error: filesystem full
[02:00] <Lex79> lol
[02:10] <Lex79> ScottK: kdeartwork is done, I pushed to bzr
[02:10] <Lex79> 'night
[02:13] <ScottK> Lex79: Thanks
[02:14] <DarkwingDuck> um.. ScottK?
[02:14] <ScottK> What?
[02:14] <DarkwingDuck> My netbook is possessed I swear
[02:15] <DarkwingDuck> I updated...
[02:15] <DarkwingDuck> It boots into a terminal login
[02:15] <DarkwingDuck> once I login I start kdm
[02:15] <ScottK> If you'd asked me, I'd have suggested waiting until Wed.
[02:16] <ScottK> We'll be in the middle of the freeze for Alpha 1 and it should be reasonably stable at that point.
[02:16] <DarkwingDuck> Not it's stuck in a never ending loop of login screens
[02:16] <shtylman> can we build packages from bzr repos yet :) ?
[02:17] <ScottK> I don't think so
[02:17] <shtylman> sadness
[02:17] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: What happens if you startx instead of starting kdm directly?
[02:19] <DarkwingDuck> I'll try then when I get back upstairs
[02:38] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: startx loads it right up... However, no mouse anymore.
[02:39] <DarkwingDuck> KnetworkManager crashes
[02:39] <ScottK> Progress.
[02:39] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah, I finally have a workspace again! :D
[02:40] <DarkwingDuck> Now, what is the command line for auto-reconfigure a mouse...
[02:43] <DarkwingDuck> hmmm, my wireless card isn't working either...
[02:43] <DarkwingDuck> and my sound card crashed
[02:43] <DarkwingDuck> weeeeee
[02:43] <JontheEchidna> bleh, KDE is without a doubt busted
[02:44] <jjesse> are you running lucid DarkwingDuck?
[02:44] <JontheEchidna> luckily I planned ahead this time and installed xfce and gdm beforehand ;-)
[02:44] <DarkwingDuck> jjesse: yes
[02:45] <DarkwingDuck> I knew this was going to happen so, I wasn't planning on using my netbook till Camp-KDE
[02:45] <JontheEchidna> DarkwingDuck, how goes your kde upgrade?
[02:45] <ScottK> maco: Any word on edu?
[02:46] <maco> ScottK: ive been in class since you last asked
[02:46] <ScottK> maco: OK.
[02:46] <maco> ScottK: and now im going home to work on a final project i have to present tomorrow
[02:46] <DarkwingDuck> JontheEchidna: I have one work for the upgrade... Ouch
[02:46] <DarkwingDuck> work=word
[02:46] <ScottK> maco: Please upload what you have to the ninja PPA then so someone else can have a look.
[02:46] <maco> i dont know where to find apachelogger's hooks to let me figure out what happened in pbuilder, so im kinda stuck anyway at the moment
[02:46] <JontheEchidna> what happens when you startx?
[02:47] <DarkwingDuck> startx loads into workspace without wireless, sound or mouth
[02:47] <ScottK> th/se
[02:47] <JontheEchidna> ouch, but plasma and friends run?
[02:47] <DarkwingDuck> mouth=mouse
[02:47] <DarkwingDuck> yeah, it runs ish
[02:47] <Daskreech> DarkwingDuck: of course. You haven't run kdeinit probably
[02:47] <JontheEchidna> hmm... I just get the rotating cursor across a black screen of doom
[02:48] <Daskreech> ddoooooooooooooom
[02:48] <DarkwingDuck> I'm trying to remember how to reconfigure my mouse from terminal
[02:48] <JontheEchidna> kdostartupconfig4 hangs at 100% cpu indefinitely
[02:48] <JontheEchidna> and starting any KDE app from xfce causes it to take up 100% cpu, much as it did before the restart
[02:49] <DarkwingDuck> What the heck you guys do last night?
[02:49] <DarkwingDuck> :P:P
[02:49] <ScottK> Uploaded a beta release of a major KDE version.
[02:49] <JontheEchidna> the thing is, 4.4 beta worked for me at first
[02:49] <DarkwingDuck> ahhhh so this is KDE 4.4B fault?
[02:49] <ScottK> It would be suprising if it were smooth
[02:50] <DarkwingDuck> Oh I know
[02:50] <DarkwingDuck> I have the *net working via a wire
[02:52] <maco> ScottK: ok uploaded to ppa in a non-building state with -0ubuntu0~maco1 for version so it doesnt interfere when -0ubuntu1 is figured out
[02:52] <ScottK> maco: Thanks.
[02:54] <DarkwingDuck> ohhhhh... an error when sudo apt-get upgrade.... "Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/kdepim;ibs-data_4%3a4.3.80-0ubuntu1_all.deb   E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)"        <---- Any ideas?
[02:54]  * Daskreech chuckles
[02:54] <Daskreech> Is that a copy and paste?
[02:55] <DarkwingDuck> nawww...
[02:55] <DarkwingDuck> seperate systems. I tagged that
[02:55] <DarkwingDuck> read and type
[02:55] <Daskreech> ok
[02:55] <Daskreech> Would be amusing if someone uploaded a package with ; for a l
[02:55] <DarkwingDuck> oops, typo on the package
[02:55] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Already uploaded kdepimlibs to fix that
[02:56] <DarkwingDuck> ahhhh, when is that available for download?
[02:57]  * JontheEchidna is stuck with xchat and xterm and misses konversation and konsole :(
[02:57] <DarkwingDuck> Im a fan of quassel actually
[02:58] <DarkwingDuck> xchat? *gags*
[02:58] <Daskreech> JontheEchidna: ha I went for two weeks with no X once when some packages broke X
[02:59] <JontheEchidna> DarkwingDuck: kdepimlibs updates should be available now
[02:59] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah, it's crashing each time
[02:59] <DarkwingDuck> Ill try to update again before I upgrade *sigh*
[03:00] <JontheEchidna> sudo dpkg -i --force-overwrite  /var/cache/apt/archives/kdepimlibs-data_4%3a4.3.80-0ubuntu1_all.deb will get your packaging system in a usable state again
[03:00] <ScottK> artwork uploading
[03:01] <DarkwingDuck> woah...
[03:02] <DarkwingDuck> click click boom...
[03:02] <jjesse> good boom?  bad boom?
[03:02] <DarkwingDuck> Unknown media types
[03:02] <DarkwingDuck> That's the only error it turned back...
[03:03] <DarkwingDuck> ohhhhhhhhhh working...
[03:04] <DarkwingDuck> YAY!
[03:04] <DarkwingDuck> Okay, lemme try a reboot and see what happens
[03:05]  * JontheEchidna predicts spinning cursor of doom
[03:05] <dtchen> quilt push 0070-dont-bail-on-sound-class-modem-devs.patch
[03:06] <dtchen> gah, sorry
[03:06] <DarkwingDuck> GAHHHHHHHHH
[03:07] <DarkwingDuck> ROFLMAO!!!!
[03:08] <DarkwingDuck> Okay, no spinning curser of doom...
[03:08] <JontheEchidna> that's good
[03:08] <DarkwingDuck> believe it or not I'm back to the first error
[03:09] <DarkwingDuck> I login, it kicks me back to the login screen, I login a second time and it crashes
[03:10] <ScottK> artwork is up.  Is edu the last one we're missing?
[03:10] <DarkwingDuck> I have no workspace but, wireless, mouse and sound is back
[03:10] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: back to the first problem again LOL
[03:31]  * nixternal waits to update :)
[03:31] <nixternal> let me know when it is safe
[03:33] <DarkwingDuck> LOL hey nixternal
[03:33] <DarkwingDuck> BUT WHY... *sigh*
[03:35] <Daskreech> safe
[03:35] <Daskreech> lol
[03:35] <DarkwingDuck> why why why
[03:35] <DarkwingDuck> Why does it require me to login twice??
[03:36] <DarkwingDuck> and thus, cause plasma-netbook and KDE daemon to crash?
[03:36] <DarkwingDuck> *sigh*
[03:37] <DarkwingDuck> AND plasma desktop?
[03:38] <yofel> DarkwingDuck: can you rename /usr/lib/kde4/solid_hal_power.so and see if it still crahes?
[03:39] <ScottK> Note to self: Do NOT try to stop dbus inside the chroot "because it will help the new dbus to configure".
[03:40] <ScottK> It did what I wanted (dbus configured), but I forgot stopping dbus was stopping dbus.
[03:40] <DarkwingDuck> yofel: rebooting now.
[03:42] <DarkwingDuck> yofel: That worked!!
[03:42] <yofel> DarkwingDuck: DanaG posted that workaround in #ubuntu+1 yesterday (I had the same crashes on amd64)
[03:43] <yofel> now why does that make it crash...
[03:43]  * DarkwingDuck buys yofel a couple of kegs
[03:43] <DarkwingDuck> At least we know where it is... However, it still required me to log in twice
[03:43] <ScottK> yofel: Reported bugs to bugs.kde.org?
[03:44] <DarkwingDuck> If not, I will....
[03:44] <yofel> not yet, was too busy
[03:44] <nixternal> hey, whats up with 4.3.4? text editors are bombing -> "A KDE text-editor component could not be found. Please check your KDE installation."
[03:44] <DarkwingDuck> You want to report it yofel or, should I do it?
[03:45] <yofel> DarkwingDuck: can you do it please, I can't do it before tomorrow (and give me the bug number)
[03:45] <ScottK> nixternal: Please file a bug on project kubuntu-ppa
[03:45] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah, not a problem yofel. I'll get it as soon as I go smoke.
[03:58] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: It would fall under snapshot/SVN right?
[03:58] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Unless 4.3.80 is a choice
[03:58] <DarkwingDuck> Nope. 4.3.4
[04:00] <ScottK> Say in the text of the bug it's 4.3..80
[04:05] <DarkwingDuck> kk
[04:08] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK, yofel: Bug reported... https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=217816
[04:11]  * DarkwingDuck wonders why he has 48 blocked updates
[04:13] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: apt-get dist-ugprade
[04:15] <DarkwingDuck> oooohhhhh 184 MEGS of updates
[04:21]  * DarkwingDuck holds breath and reboots
[04:22] <DarkwingDuck> As long as my netbook works for capm-kde I'm all up for testing :D
[04:23] <DarkwingDuck> GAHHHHHH!!!!! *sigh*
[04:23] <DarkwingDuck> Nice little box... "Could not start kdeinit4. Check your installation"
[04:28] <DarkwingDuck> broken again ScottK
[04:28] <DarkwingDuck> :D
[04:29] <ScottK> Remember the part where I suggested waiting until the middle of the Alpha 1 freeze (like on Wed) to do any upgrades?
[04:29] <DarkwingDuck> LOL
[04:29]  * ScottK wasn't kidding.
[04:29] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah, wayyyy broken
[04:32] <DarkwingDuck> okay, wednesday then? LOL
[04:54] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: We have every spot filled on the Wiki ToDo list!!
[04:55] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: Maybe one of us should send out an email requesting at least a rough draft up and out be end of year?
[04:57] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: go for it :)
[04:58]  * nixternal is busy with trunk builds
[04:58] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: Okay, i'll get it out tonight
[05:49] <rgreening> Lex79: ping
[05:50] <rgreening> Lex79: pkg-kde-tools dep in karmic backports needs fixing
[05:56] <nixternal> Nightrose: for the junior-jobs do they have to be code related? I am sure I can come up with 100 junior-jobs for documentation :)
[08:12] <ghostcube> ehlo :)
[08:57] <Mamarok> hm, why do we still ship an outdated libmtp8? it's 0.3.7, 1.0.1 is out since August, 1.0.1 is released since a few weeks
[09:02] <Nightrose> nixternal: i have no problem with you filing documentation JJs and then pointing people there ;-)
[09:02] <Nightrose> go for it
[09:22] <Nightrose> uhmmm
[09:22]  * Nightrose hopes vorian isn't serious with that facebook invite
[10:56] <Lex79> rgreening: fixed, thanks
[11:12] <apachelogger> maco: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment
[11:12] <Riddell> oh tsk, who broke kde4libs
[11:12]  * apachelogger hides in fear that it was him
[11:14] <Riddell> hmm, symbols foo
[11:16] <apachelogger> hah, how cool is google goggles :D
[11:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: caused by what?
[11:17] <Riddell> I've no idea, nothing changed except a Replaces
[11:18] <Lex79> Riddell: you have to change 4.3.80-0ubuntu1 to 0ubuntu2 in libplasma3.symbols.in
[11:18] <apachelogger> oh my
[11:18] <Lex79> in all lines where there is 4.3.80-0ubuntu1
[11:18] <apachelogger> what a maintenance overhead
[11:19] <Lex79> yep
[11:19] <Riddell> why is the package version in the symbols?
[11:20] <Lex79> iirc I added when I merged
[11:22] <Riddell> debian doesn't have the debian part of the version number, I'm sure s/-0ubuntu1// would work
[11:22] <Riddell> I'll test that
[11:22] <Riddell> the alternative is just to remove the symbols file and ignore the issue
[11:25] <Lex79> I checked better, my fault, I added 0ubuntuX in this release, sorry :)
[11:29] <Riddell> building it without to test just incase
[12:16]  * Riddell takes a look at kdeadmin and kdewebdev build failures while kdelibs compiles
[12:47] <ghostcube> split me round round baby round round -.-
[12:55] <Riddell> hmm, so in debian libx11-dev is brought in by libgl1-mesa-dev which is brought in by libqt4-opengl-dev
[12:56]  * Riddell wonders why that's different with us
[13:00] <Mamarok> hm, why do we still ship an outdated libmtp8? it's 0.3.7, 1.0.1 is out since August, 1.0.1 is released since a few weeks
[13:00] <ghostcube> heh Mamarok good question :)
[13:01] <Mamarok> because it might be the solution to quite a few Amarok problems...
[13:04] <Riddell> I expect that's what debian had when we synced
[13:06] <ghostcube> debian stretched release date to later 2010 for new release i read
[13:07] <Mamarok> hm, I will try pinging the Debian folk, too
[13:21] <Riddell> seems our buildds don't install recommended packages
[13:22] <Riddell> so libqt4-opengl-dev doesn't get install so libx11-dev doesn't get installed
[13:22] <Riddell> humph
[13:22] <ScottK> Lex79, apachelogger, and Riddell: You shouldn't have to change the symbols files each update.  The version in the symbols file should be the version where the symbol first appeared.
[13:23] <Lex79> right
[13:23] <apachelogger> makes more sense :D
[13:26] <Riddell> infact debian doesn't install libqt4-opengl-dev in its buildds either nor libx11-dev so maybe libx11-dev is just a new dependency in 4.4
[13:26] <rgreening> seems so
[13:28] <Lex79> Riddell: the same issue is present also in some packages in universe, we have to add libx11-dev in this packages too
[13:29] <Lex79> so, it's not just a new dependency for 4.4.
[13:30] <rgreening> guess someone dropped the dep .. wonder if accidental or intentional
[13:30] <rgreening> or a result of a bad merge
[13:31] <Lex79> intentional
[13:31] <Riddell> debian doesn't have it
[13:31] <Lex79> yes
[13:31] <Riddell> so there's some difference somewhere
[13:32] <Riddell> well I'll add it back as a depend on libqt4-dev
[13:32] <Riddell> ScottK: you were saying colin was doing something which might make qt compile on arm?
[14:04] <JontheEchidna> bug 494027, strace coming (I knew I couldn't be alone)
[14:05] <JontheEchidna> will probably render the next daily iso unbootable
[14:05] <Riddell> oh joy
[14:06] <JontheEchidna> kdm_greet is affected too in my experience
[14:06] <yofel> it is
[14:06] <Riddell> would help if I could get kdelibs to compile, it gets stuck on meinproc doing the docs
[14:06] <JontheEchidna> meinproc has also gotten stuck for quintasan on kdeutils and for maco in kdeedu
[14:07] <yofel> when kdm starts up you get a spinning cursor of death with kdm_greet stuck at 100% CPU
[14:07] <JontheEchidna> yep
[14:08] <JontheEchidna> gotta install gdm and maybe xfce to get a working X environment
[14:08] <yofel> gdm + gnome works
[14:09] <JontheEchidna> I might keep xfce around even after KDE is fixed... it's not that large
[14:09] <Riddell> strace suggests its the same locale issue for meinproc
[14:09] <JontheEchidna> but I do not like xchat at all (not that it's an xfce thing, but...)
[14:10] <JontheEchidna> oh? They're related? interesting...
[14:10] <JontheEchidna> I did have a KDE 4.4 workspace working at one point
[14:10] <JontheEchidna> then after some upgrades stuff didn't work when I rebooted.
[14:11] <JontheEchidna> (this is when we were building stuff in -ninjas)
[14:11] <JontheEchidna> Unfortunately I cannot recall which upgrade killed things :(
[14:11] <Quintasan|Szel> hurr, just thinking I'm wasting my time in school makes me rage
[14:11] <Riddell> I'll try compiling kdelibs without patches and see if that sorts it
[14:15] <ScottK> Riddell: cjwatson was.  Let me check in with him.
[14:16] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan|Szel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnQSMTpFSMI (don't have speakers up)
[14:16] <JontheEchidna> oh.. but you're at school
[14:17]  * Quintasan|Szel is heading home now :P
[14:18] <Quintasan|Szel> anyways I've wasted 2h+ on PE and lesson after that because they didnt assign us a teacher for subsstitute :/
[14:23] <txwikinger> apachelogger has created the Church of Kubuntu now :D
[14:24] <apachelogger> now? you apparently did not notice all the secret societies I founded over the years :P
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: This looks suspicious: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdelibs/kdecore/localization/klocale.cpp?r1=1058720&r2=1058719&pathrev=1058720
[14:26] <apachelogger> "I've herd rumors that KDE might become the standard desktop environment in
[14:26] <apachelogger> Ubuntu.  Anyone else know anything about that?"
[14:26] <apachelogger> that is an interesting rumor indeed :D
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I believe that prompted a tarball respin
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> and before the new tarball things were working fine
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> wait, that's post-beta
[14:28] <JontheEchidna> still a bit suspicious
[14:29] <JontheEchidna> perhaps an infinite updatecatalogs loop due to an incorrect number of catalogs it's looking for?
[14:29] <JontheEchidna> since I believe we add a few
[14:32] <apachelogger> omg! android is beating up wmobile
[14:32] <apachelogger> at least in the HTC universe
[14:32] <apachelogger> oh my
[14:32]  * ghostcube maeomo user in the future
[14:32] <ghostcube> maemo
[14:33] <ghostcube> :)
[14:33]  * apachelogger is seriously looking forward to the battle maemo vs. android vs. iphone
[14:33] <ghostcube> vs iphone o.O
[14:33] <ScottK> Riddell: I got kdeedu building last night, but ran out of energy to get it finished.  I'm planning to upload it without the new packages added so we at least have a complete set.
[14:33] <ghostcube> iphone is a gameboy for runaways
[14:33] <txwikinger> apachelogger: There was a spoof blog entry somewhere about that some time ago
[14:34] <txwikinger> android?
[14:34] <ghostcube> what kde defaulting into ubuntu o.O
[14:34]  * txwikinger heard google is working on stealingn the evil empire status from M$
[14:34] <ghostcube> yeah with its strange chrome os
[14:34] <ghostcube> :)
[14:34] <apachelogger> hehe
[14:35] <apachelogger> its not google's fault that noone seemd to be able to create a sensible browser and then an OS tuned towards the intartubes
[14:35] <ghostcube> :D
[14:35]  * apachelogger finds that fact alone very scary TBH
[14:35] <claydoh> apachelogger: someone in kubuntuforums theorized the kde-to-replace-gnome thing, he is an anti-mono person, and postulated that shuttleworth keeps kubuntu around just in case the hammer comes down from MS on its patents
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> IBM was the evil empire for the mainframe days. Microsoft for the desktop days. Google will be the evil empire of the interwebs days
[14:36] <ScottK> claydoh: You going to do us an Alpha ! announcement?
[14:36] <ScottK> !/1
[14:36] <txwikinger> IBM was? IBM *is* still the evil empire for mainframes :D
[14:36] <claydoh> um, maybe, though I have not even tried lucid yet :/
[14:36] <JontheEchidna> but they're not evil since they put $1bn into linux
[14:36] <JontheEchidna> :P
[14:37] <apachelogger> claydoh: I hope someone explained to him that novell sold out to MS and hence mono is in no danger (well the next 10 years or so anyway)
[14:37] <txwikinger> well.. maybe they try to mask their evilness :p
[14:37] <claydoh> apachelogger: that won't woork with him
[14:37] <JontheEchidna> it's more of a public opinion thing
[14:37] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: kdelibs without patches seems to solve the meinproc infinite loop
[14:37] <txwikinger> JontheEchidna: Google uses Linux (even an internal ubuntu derivate) everywhere too
[14:37] <apachelogger> claydoh: so tell him that MS is advertising mono as official port
[14:37] <apachelogger> because that is what happens
[14:38] <JontheEchidna> I wonder if applying: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdelibs/kdecore/localization/klocale.cpp?r1=1058720&r2=1058719&pathrev=1058720 would fix it
[14:38]  * txwikinger deleted tomboy from his desktop after finding out it uses mono
[14:38] <claydoh> apachelogger: no, he is pretty much locked into his view
[14:39] <apachelogger> just saying, if you dont fix him, at least prevent others from believing him
[14:39]  * apachelogger finds that seroiusly messed up
[14:39] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I'll try that
[14:39] <apachelogger> just like I found it seriously messed up when gnome fanboys called Qt unfree because of the dual license thingy
[14:39] <txwikinger> btw... in South America there is something liek a 4:1 ration of KDE:Gnome usage
[14:40] <JontheEchidna> kde rev 1057627 looks suspicious too
[14:40] <txwikinger> apachelogger: I just don't like mono :D nothing to do with freedom :p
[14:40] <apachelogger> well, that is another thing
[14:41] <claydoh> apachelogger: if you are bored http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3108275.0
[14:41] <claydoh> icluding my lame attempt to get a simple question answered
[14:42] <apachelogger> someone sould add a disclaimr to the first post :P
[14:42] <apachelogger> then all is good
[14:44] <claydoh> Ok, so what is new and kewl for alpha1? besides the kde version?
[14:45] <apachelogger> curch of kubuntu obviously
[14:45] <txwikinger> Novell is a wholly owned subsidiary of M$?
[14:47] <apachelogger> txwikinger: did you take at novell's numbers recently ... their linux stuff drives in ~40M IIRC, compared to ~200M loss or so
[14:47] <apachelogger> mostly write-offs, but still
[14:47]  * claydoh goes out to move snow and then get lunch
[14:47] <txwikinger> apachelogger: They will win billions of $ from SCO :D :p
[14:48] <apachelogger> if they want to focus on the linux market stuff, then they either need to boost the market a whole lot, or they need to shrink the company
[14:48] <apachelogger> personally observation that is
[14:48] <apachelogger> txwikinger: I would not count on that :P
[14:48] <apachelogger> where there is nothing, you cant win anything :P
[14:49] <Tm_T> claydoh: that's nuts...
[14:50]  * txwikinger needs to stop reading nonsense and start working a bit
[14:52] <apachelogger> "These are the PATENTED libraries"
[14:52] <Riddell> if I don't apply kubuntu_56_langpacks_desktop_files.diff then meinproc works
[14:52] <apachelogger> one can patent whole libraries?
[14:52] <apachelogger> something must seriously be wrong with that patent system Oo
[14:53] <apachelogger> Riddell: not that I argued the whole langpacks stuff is causing maintenance overhead? :P
[14:54] <JontheEchidna> would an emergency upload unapplying that patch be appropriate for now?
[14:54] <Riddell> mm hmm
[14:54] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: well let me play around quickly and see what can be done
[14:54] <JontheEchidna> kk
[14:55] <apachelogger> as long as it comes back soonish :S
[14:55] <JontheEchidna> not like I could upload it anyways, due to wonky ACL for kubuntu-dev
[14:55] <JontheEchidna> a kubuntu-dev cannot upload soprano, akonadi, kde4libs or kdepimlibs
[14:56] <Riddell> but can upload gdm
[14:56] <apachelogger> hehe
[14:56] <JontheEchidna> heh, yeah
[14:56] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Would you please reply to my mail to ubuntu-devel of a few days ago adding the additional packages that concern us?
[14:57]  * JontheEchidna admits he's not subscribed to ubuntu-devel and never saw the mail
[14:58] <ScottK> You really should.  It's not terribly high volume.
[14:58] <apachelogger> I've got 2502 unread mails in there... not exactly low volume either
[14:59] <Riddell> only 2502?  you're lucky
[14:59] <apachelogger> hehe
[14:59] <apachelogger> >23k unread bug mails though
[15:08] <ScottK> kdeedu is up (finally)
[15:09] <Riddell> I believe that fixes our problem http://paste.ubuntu.com/337322/
[15:11] <Riddell> so back to the symbols question
[15:11] <Tm_T> claydoh: oh, that thread was more nuts than I first thought, ouch!
[15:17] <apachelogger> Quintasan|Szel: knew no better to write for your application
[15:17] <apachelogger> Tm_T: you read the whole thread?
[15:18] <apachelogger> oh boy
[15:28] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: make sure the backports get riddell's patch^
[15:29]  * JontheEchidna out for a bit
[15:29] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: ok
[15:29] <Tm_T> apachelogger: yes, and I really think administrator should never do rant threads, and double-no for closing discussion when they have their said done
[15:30] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: thanks
[15:30] <Lex79> np
[16:01] <Lure> apachelogger, Riddell, ScottK: if you have time to review by per-package upload request: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukaRenko/DigikamKipiPluginsApplication
[16:04]  * ScottK is fixing webdev.  Then I'll be off most of the day.
[16:06] <Quintasan> uff
[16:06] <Quintasan> finally
[16:06] <Riddell> hi Quintasan
[16:08] <Quintasan> Riddell: hello
[16:08] <skreech> Hello
[16:10] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: Hmm I forgot about libortp, I guess I shall remove it from bzr then
[16:10] <Quintasan> :wq
[16:10] <Quintasan> :/
[16:11] <Lure> ScottK: no hurry, I know most of you are busy ;-)
[16:19] <Tm_T> hmmm, we had default browser blueprint somewhere, but I cannot find it now
[16:23] <Tm_T> ah, this one atleast: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidPackaging
[16:24] <EagleScreen> hi boys
[16:26] <ghostcube> ehlo
[16:26] <ScottK> webdev fix is up, so I think we are complete.
[16:26] <ScottK> maco: If you want to continue on with edu, it looks like it needs two new binaries added.  I put the list-missing output in bzr for reference.
[16:27] <skreech> edu is the only one missing currently from Lynx ?
[16:27] <ScottK> edu is building now.
[16:27] <ScottK> Just uploaded the fix to get webdev built.
[16:27] <ScottK> I think that's it.
[16:28] <ScottK> People should do upgrade testing to catch file conflicts.
[16:29] <EagleScreen> i am trying to build a kind of merge between konversation 1.2.1-1 from Debian with Kubuntu patches in 1.2-0ubuntu3, I find that 0003-Change-indicator-app-entry-behavior.diff cannot be applied
[16:29] <Lex79> ScottK: kdepim is not uploaded yet, it's still in bzr
[16:30] <ScottK> Oh.
[16:30] <ScottK> Lex79: Is it ready?
[16:30] <Lex79> yes for me
[16:30] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: ^^^ Can you do this one?  I have to go.
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> kdepim? sure
[16:36] <JontheEchidna> agateau: ping
[16:44] <JontheEchidna> brb
[16:44] <agateau> JontheEchidna: pong
[16:44] <JontheEchidna> agateau: oh, glad I caught you
[16:44]  * JontheEchidna was about to reboot
[16:44] <JontheEchidna> anyway, it seems that the Konversation indicator patch fails to apply with 1.2.1, and I was hoping you could take a look at it
[16:45] <agateau> sure, let me download the source
[16:45] <JontheEchidna> also, now that kdepim accepted the indicator patches, upstream says that it increases the likelihood of them accepting the patch upstream
[16:45] <JontheEchidna> er, konversation upstream
[16:45] <agateau> great!
[16:45] <agateau> it needs a bit more work though
[16:45] <agateau> but would be cool
[16:46] <JontheEchidna> great, thanks. I'll reboot now. ;-)
[16:52] <amik> JontheEchidna: just a reminder, it would be nice to have ur jockey notification changes and the activation bugfix in the alpha...
[16:54] <JontheEchidna> oh, yeah. thanks
[16:54] <JontheEchidna> amik: where is your branch again? I'll poke pitti today
[16:57] <amik> JontheEchidna: lp:~amichai2/jockey/fixes. actually only revision 583 is relevant, the other is superceded by your changes iirc
[16:57] <amik> silly ubottu, trix are for kids
[16:58] <Tm_T> hi emma
[17:00] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: One more before I'm really gone ...  kdenetwork needs uploaded again to drop the Universe build-dep.
[17:08] <agateau> JontheEchidna: Here is a patchset which applied on upstream tar ball (didn't try with source pkg): http://people.canonical.com/~agateau/tmp/konversation-1.2.1-20091208.tar.bz2
[17:12] <Quintasan> Hmm next meeting friday morning :/
[17:18] <debfx> Riddell: I uploaded debdiffs for firefox and xulrunner to bug #494067
[17:18] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: remove libortp-dev from debian/control in bzr
[17:18] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: I mean I removed :P
[17:18] <debfx> Riddell: kmozillahelper is on REVU http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kmozillahelper
[17:20] <Riddell> debfx: ooh great
[17:25] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: k, I'll get to that after kdepim
[17:30] <lubyou> whats the current status of 4.4 beta packages?
[17:30] <tsimpson> kubuntu.org and the #kubuntu topic will be updated when packages are available
[17:31] <lubyou> well
[17:32] <lubyou> of course they will be, thought one could be a bit more specific
[17:34] <tsimpson> they'll be ready when they are ready, many are working on it as we speak :)
[17:34] <lubyou> ok whatever
[17:45]  * Riddell uploads qt4 and kde4libs
[18:37] <yofel> argh,  kde4libs build failed
[18:37] <yofel> ups, wrong channel
[19:04] <debfx> ScottK: I have refreshed the brightness osd patch: http://debfx.fobos.de/kubuntu_101_brightness_fn_keys_and_osd.diff
[19:12] <JontheEchidna> Woo, back in KDE
[19:15] <Lex79> :)
[19:17] <JontheEchidna> solution: remove the offending /usr/share/locale/currency/yourlocale.desktop
[19:24] <davmor2> Riddell: you about dude?
[19:26] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: kdelibs is still ftbs, I'm fixing, do you have the power for upload this package?
[19:26] <JontheEchidna> nope :(
[19:26] <Lex79> bah :(
[19:27] <JontheEchidna> I can't do akonadi, soprano, kde4libs or kdepimlibs
[19:28] <Lex79> ok I take note, qt too (iirc)
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> oh, yeah
[19:33] <cragdor> Hi all, Does anyone know when xrandr will support multihead nvidia setups?
[19:52] <Lex79> ScottK or Riddell, kdelibs fixed in bzr, it's still ftbs in archive, can upload please?
[19:52] <jussi01> cragdor: it does?
[19:52]  * Lex79 out for a bit
[19:53] <cragdor> jussi01; strange it doesn't pick up my second monitor! Its been driving me nuts as kubuntu loads just one monitor on boot
[19:54] <jussi01> cragdor: Ive mine setup with the nice nvidia config - have you tried that?
[19:55] <jussi01> you need to run it as root so it can write to your xorg though
[19:56] <cragdor> jussil01, i use nvidia settings, however that can't save to xorg anymore since the xorg conf doesn't exist in karmic koala(Its auto detect at boot)
[19:57] <cragdor> and it still only allows twinview rather than detecting each monitor seperately. xrandr can't identy both monitors
[19:59] <Riddell> hi davmor2
[19:59] <Riddell> davmor2: I've got a blog to write tonight
[20:00] <Riddell> Lex79: so what's the secret to updating the symbols file?
[20:01] <davmor2> Riddell: did you get to the bottom of the xorg issue in the end, that was preventing kub alt from installing?
[20:06] <Riddell> davmor2: no I've not looked at that, was going to wait until kde 4.4 beta was in then worry about whether CDs built
[20:07] <davmor2> Riddell: you know that alpha 1 is like thursday right ;)
[20:07] <Riddell> ages to go yet!
[20:12] <Lex79> Riddell: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36597752/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.kde4libs_4%3A4.3.80-0ubuntu4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[20:13] <Lex79> at the end of buildlog see the lines starting with "-"
[20:13] <Lex79> they should be removed since are missing
[20:13] <Lex79> and when the line starts with "+" should be added
[20:14] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: uploading kdepim
[20:14] <Lex79> with just "+" and not with "+#MISSING"
[20:15] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: thanks, looks good? it was a bit mess :(
[20:15] <Lex79> kpilot is gone \o/
[20:16] <davmor2> Riddell: hah there's still time for you to run out of you mean ;)
[20:16] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: we just have to remember to add back the docs after kde4libs is fixed
[20:17] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: kdelibs is fixed with Riddell's patch?
[20:17] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[20:19] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: should we remove bilbo from the archive after 4.4 final ? now there is blogilo (which was bilbo)
[20:19] <JontheEchidna> we get to remove a lot of plasma-widget- packages that were merged in to KDE
[20:20] <JontheEchidna> It should probably go now, to prevent problems
[20:30] <Riddell> Lure: I said nice things on your application
[20:30] <Riddell> Quintasan|Szel: where's yours again?
[20:30] <Lure> Riddell: you liar ;-)
[20:30]  * Lure checks
[20:31] <Lure> Riddell: thanks
[20:47] <Riddell> Quintasan|Szel: done
[21:01] <ruphy> https://launchpad.net/~fintiminti nice way to spam, this is getting linked
[22:11] <Riddell> Lex79: waa
[22:11] <Riddell> compiled on amd64, failed on i386
[22:12] <Riddell> I'm tempted just to get rid of the file, it's more hassle than its worth
[22:12] <maco> ruphy: oh goodness
[22:48] <Lex79> Riddell: we have to check every time if it built on both arch since symbols are differents for amd64 and i386, get rid of it is the best choice I think
[22:53]  * JontheEchidna updates webkitkde now that we have KDE 4.4. in
[23:01] <Riddell> Lex79: there must be some way that debian uses it, but I'm not convinced its worth the effort
[23:06] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: what's the policy on uploading stuff during alpha freeze? Are FTBFS fixes ok?
[23:07] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: symbols stuff helps shlibdeps discover the exact version of a library that $PACKAGE should depend on
[23:08] <JontheEchidna> probably part of their paranoia against libplasma becoming binary incompatible ;-)
[23:09] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: are you asking about kdelibs?  I'd like to get that sorted before alpha so we can still upload it
[23:09] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: kdeplasma-addons, I uploaded a conflicts/replace fix earlier today and it failed due to a build-dep that wasn't bumped during the initial 4.3.80 upload
[23:10] <JontheEchidna> also kdenetwork 4.3.80-0ubuntu1 failed due to a universe build-dep. I'm also wondering if it would be appropriate to sponsor a fix for that.
[23:12] <Riddell> I uploaded kdenetwork not long ago
[23:13] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: go ahead on kdeplasma-addons
[23:13] <JontheEchidna> oh, so  you did
[23:14] <JontheEchidna> this buildlog worries me, though: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeplasma-addons/4:4.3.80-0ubuntu3/+build/1386728/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.kdeplasma-addons_4:4.3.80-0ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[23:14] <JontheEchidna> more than just libkexiv2-7-dev aren't installable
[23:15] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: needs keedu 4.3.80, new marble version
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> that would make sense
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> what needs done with kdeedu?
[23:18] <Lex79> uhmm, kdeedu is built, maybe kdeplasma-addons is built against a lower version of kdeedu...I saw that error many times in ppa in the past
[23:22] <Lex79> uhm no plasma-addons is built with libmarble-dev 4.3.80 :(
[23:23] <JontheEchidna> kdepim needs pushed through new queue
[23:45] <nixternal> woo snow!
[23:45] <jjesse> snow sucks, o'hare is delayed 2 hours on average
[23:46] <nixternal> there you are
[23:46] <nixternal> jjesse: it is supposed to get worse before it gets better :)
[23:46] <nixternal> how long have you been there?
[23:46] <jjesse> tell me about it, i'll be suprised if i leave tonight
[23:46] <jjesse> want to drive me to michigan?
[23:47] <nixternal> haha, can you wait until saturday? I am heading to BH with my sister
[23:47] <jjesse> i think my wife would kill me
[23:47] <nixternal> hehe
[23:47] <nixternal> better you than me
[23:47] <nixternal> I heard GR took some snow the other day
[23:47] <jjesse> 6 inches
[23:48] <jjesse> weatherman says 6 more by tomorrow evening
[23:48] <nixternal> yeah, weatherman said an inch, we already have that and then some in just over an hours worth of snowfall
[23:49] <nixternal> ok, what am I missing here...trying to build kdelibs but it is complaining about no polkit-1 so it is doing a fake backend for kauth
[23:49] <nixternal> i swear both polkit and polkit-1 are installed


[23:34] <GEEKMASTER> Hi, anyone here know how to post materials at http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/


[12:10] <czajkowski> aloha
[12:11] <czajkowski> hows folks
[12:11] <czajkowski> ebel: good comments on the article
[12:11] <czajkowski> didnt know that about the paddys day parade in NYC
[12:12] <slashbel> hello
[12:12] <czajkowski> slashbel: howdy
[12:12] <ebel> czajkowski: yeah it's the "Ancient Order of Hibernians" that run the New York on
[12:13] <czajkowski> huh never knew that
[12:13] <czajkowski> Pendulum: usually is my source of NYC news
[12:13] <ebel> czajkowski: but "Irish-American" is different from "Irish". e.g. there are non-nationals in paddy's day parade in ireland
[12:14] <czajkowski> nods
[12:14] <ebel> but that's cause it's a national holiday here
[12:14] <ebel> whereas in USA, Irish-Americans are an ethnic minority
[12:14] <ebel> it's a privately run parade in USA
[12:14] <czajkowski> I do tire of the 3rd and 4th generation people going on about how theyir great great counsin was irish
[12:15] <czajkowski> it's like really you've lived in usa longer than over here, and never been here
[12:15] <ebel> czajkowski: if you want a real head desk look at the New York paddy's day parade banner rules.
[12:15] <czajkowski> just admit you're American
[12:15] <czajkowski> ebel: aye saw it
[12:15] <ebel> Your banner can have your group name or "English out of Ireland". WTF!?
[12:15] <czajkowski> indeed
[12:15] <czajkowski> bit ott
[12:16] <ebel> You'll note I say "Irish-American" not "Irish" :P Irish-Americans ≠ Irish
[12:16] <czajkowski> yes I know this and you know this
[12:16] <czajkowski> not everyone does
[12:16] <ebel> yup
[12:16] <czajkowski> it becomes head wrecking at events tbh
[12:17] <ebel> USAians use the term "Irish" in USA. It means "Irish-American" IMO
[12:17] <czajkowski> I've yet to find one that sees that distinction
[12:18] <ebel> I think most "Irish-American" groups in USA are also strongly catholic
[12:19] <czajkowski> ah the ones I've met are baptist
[12:19] <czajkowski> is that spelt correctly
[12:19]  * czajkowski peers
[12:19] <ebel> which is a change from current Irish. That's why I dislike USAians who call themselves "Irish".
[12:19] <ebel> Protestants eh? :P
[12:19] <czajkowski> I'm not saying that :)
[12:19] <ebel> Baptists probably would consider themselves Protestants I think
[12:20] <ebel> It's mostly an ecumincal matter :P
[12:20] <czajkowski> nods
[12:22] <ebel> Of course "Irish-American" culture was formed/influenced by being a minority in USA, which didn't happen in Ireland.
[12:23] <czajkowski> I just find them ott, more irish then the irish. naming their children irish names when they've never even stepped foot in ireland
[12:23] <czajkowski> not in their lifetime or their parents
[12:27] <ebel> It's cause in USA, everyone has to "come from somewhere" unless your a native american.
[12:27] <czajkowski> yeah I find that boggling
[12:27] <czajkowski> surely after 90+ years you're american and come from america
[12:27] <czajkowski> I just have to tune out tbh
[12:31] <ebel> I don't mind them saying "Irish-American" because that's a valid subgroup within American culture
[12:31] <ebel> In the same way "Cork" is a valid ethnic subidentity within Irish culture (say)
[12:31] <czajkowski> lol
[12:31] <ebel> But no, they aren't Irish, and they aren't more in touch with what irish culture actually means.
[12:34] <ebel> Heh, I wonder a good way to mess with their heads would be to insist that anyone who says they're "Irish" is not actually American...
[12:34] <ebel> "I'm Irish", "Oh so you don't like America? Grand so."
[12:34] <czajkowski> yeah these are topics I stay well clear of
[12:34] <czajkowski> and tend tonod and smile and run away :)
[12:34] <ebel> Play the Irish-identity side against the American-identity side :P Tis a bit mean though
[12:35] <czajkowski> you're a bit evil
[12:35] <czajkowski> so ye going biking any time soon again
[12:35] <ebel> Pfft, if they're going to claim my identity, I'm going to start claiming things about their identity :P
[12:35] <czajkowski> LOL!!
[12:36] <ebel> Fun fact: Back in the day, there was a lot of anti-Irish racism in USA. new Irish migrants weren't considered white (twas only white anglo-saxon protestands (WASPs) that counted as white)
[12:37] <czajkowski> ;o
[12:37] <ebel> some extreme protestants didn't think catholicism was a real christianity
[12:37] <ebel> JFK was asked if him being catholic would interfer/hinder him being president
[12:37] <ebel> (sorta like obama/black thing :P )
[12:37] <slashbel> popery… the pope is the anti-christ (in some protestant churches)
[12:39]  * ebel wonders why he keeps /parting…
[12:42] <ebel> anyway, no no biking planned. weather is a bit cold, and the sun is quite low so that can interfer with vision
[12:45] <czajkowski> nods
[12:45] <czajkowski> plans for another long ride this summer?
[12:46] <ebel> next year big holiday will prob. not be a bike one. Might go on a week long trip to scotland or alps.
[12:46] <ebel> big holiday next year miiight be africa trip
[12:47] <ebel> how's your fella's bike?
[12:47] <czajkowski> grand
[12:47] <czajkowski> he's just sold his old one and still has the new one
[12:48] <czajkowski> though the old one is only about 24 months old I think
[12:49] <slashbel> czajkowski: you weren't tempted to have the old one?
[12:54] <czajkowski> nope
[12:54] <czajkowski> he also just bought a car over the weekend so will be able to drive that :)
[14:12] <Pendulum> czajkowski: I blame the emphasis on US schools teaching that US culture is a "melting pot". Also, maybe the number of holidays that relate to "coming to America"
[14:13] <czajkowski> melting pot?
[14:13] <czajkowski> how so?
[14:15] <Pendulum> You get taught as a kid in US schools (or you did when I was a kid, at least) that the US is a melting pot of all the cultures and nationalities that immigrants brought when they moved over
[14:16] <Pendulum> So that it comes out of this mixture of culture
[14:16] <ebel> Which sorta is true. The USA is a very multi-ethnic country
[14:16] <Pendulum> right
[14:16] <Pendulum> although not completely true because there are so many areas where immigrants tried to *not* mix with other groups
[14:17] <czajkowski> nods
[14:17] <ebel> well, so are other countries, but that's local ethnicities, rather than USA's "people moving in" thing
[14:17] <zmoylan> in terry pratchetts discworld he admitted that he based the dwarves on the irish who seem to become more irish the further away from ireland that they lived.
[14:18] <slashbel> i wonder if that is true of other cultures
[14:18] <czajkowski> zmoylan: aye I know one or two like that, they'd never really been irish irhs, but move them thousands of miles away and they crave for the irish pubs and social meet ups
[14:18] <Pendulum> but as a result there's a whole thing where schools start teaching you young that you need to really care where your anscestors moved from no matter how long ago
[14:18] <czajkowski> I miss my taytos and red lemonads but not liable to be joining any irish ex pats groups over here tbh
[14:19] <czajkowski> Pendulum: yeah I know it's just get a bit much from time to time
[14:19] <zmoylan> and been a minority in another place can make you cling to what you brought with you.
[14:19] <slashbel> czajkowski: i still haven't found any shops selling red lemonade
[14:19] <czajkowski> slashbel: bah go up to stoneybatter and you;ll find some
[14:19] <czajkowski> not liekly to be sold in Fresh
[14:19] <czajkowski> tesco or dunnes
[14:19] <zmoylan> a mate working for the first time in the uk when he found an irish 2p coin kept it and showed it to all the irisg folk he met.
[14:19] <ebel> I'd say other cultures do it aswell, just look at (say) indians etc. in india
[14:19] <czajkowski> nods
[14:20] <ebel> sorry indians in UK
[14:20] <ebel> Most irish-americans just like the plastic bits of irish-ness, "wearing green" etc,
[14:20] <zmoylan> plastic paddies.  well known condition.
[14:20] <zmoylan> :-)
[14:20] <ebel> as I said, USAians are culturally different from EU
[14:23] <Pendulum> ebel: I always find it interesting when people say that about "Irish Americans". Because while it's true for a few they're often not the ones who actually have any Irish ancestors. When you get the real Irish-American communities, they mock the "wearing green" and that side and find those folks offensive.
[14:26] <Pendulum> The places where I tend to actually think of there being a proper "Irish American" community, are the places where there's usually a good number of folks who have moved to the US in their lifetime and where the kids all go to the same schools (usually Catholic), go to the same church, etc. They're less likely to actively throw the fact that they're Irish in your face because where they are it's just how everyone is.
[14:27] <czajkowski> nods
[14:29] <Pendulum> I don't know if it's true in other large cities that are loud about having an Irish-American population, but NYC ends up being this funny mix of the obnoxious, in your face and the "just are" sort
[14:30] <Pendulum> The ones who are obnoxious are,  most of the time, not the ones who've had any new Irish blood in their family in so many generations that they can't trace back
[14:32] <Pendulum> they won't fit in with the real communities
[14:33] <Pendulum> And there are some people who fit in with the proper communities who don't have much Irish blood, but a huge part of the difference in acceptance is based on behaviour.
[14:34] <czajkowski> what do you mean by the last bit
[14:34] <Pendulum> If you're obnoxiously loud about being Irish, you probably won't fit in any of the communities
[14:34] <zmoylan> the old phrase from school.  'more irish than the irish themselves'
[14:34] <Pendulum> right
[14:35] <czajkowski> ah yes
[14:35] <czajkowski> sorry
[14:35] <czajkowski> that I understand
[14:35] <zmoylan> there were laws against that.  the statutes of kilkenny if memory serves :-)
[14:38] <Pendulum> But I also have an unique thing in that even at a young age I stood out because I called myself a "mutt" rather than saying that I was from any specific cultural background
[14:38] <Pendulum> So that i've always been outside looking at the various cultural groups rather than belonging to one.
[14:40] <Pendulum> Which was extra interesting growing up in my area where most people IDed as being Irish, Polish, or Italian. (Never more than one because it was our parents' generation that still could be kicked out of their families if they married someone of a different group)
[14:45] <czajkowski> nods


[13:47] <cmaloney> Good morning
[13:56] <rick_h> morning
[14:02] <shakes808_> morning
[14:12] <brousch> I have to perform my first code review today. It's for our intern.
[14:12] <rick_h> remember, always ask questions
[14:12] <rick_h> goes so much better if phrased as a question ime
[14:12] <brousch> WTF were you thinking here?
[14:13] <cmaloney> heh
[14:13] <brousch> "Are you an idiot?"
[14:14] <brousch> These seem useful https://smartbear.com/learn/code-review/best-practices-for-peer-code-review/
[14:14] <rick_h> :)
[14:14] <rick_h> "What do you think of trying this way"
[14:14] <rick_h> "can you walk me through how it'll work in this case" (which I know will cause it to go boom)
[14:15] <rick_h> "you have checked out the style guide link here: .... "
[14:15] <rick_h> err have you that is
[14:16] <brousch> Heh, no style guides here.
[14:16] <brousch> We do have PEP8 checker on some stuff
[14:16] <rick_h> "have you run this through make check" :)
[14:18] <brousch> I like the annotation tip: have him annotate the code before I review
[14:19] <rick_h> oh yea, always have the person self-review before asking someone else to look
[14:20] <rick_h> create the PR, get a coffee, then review the diff stand along in the review tool
[14:20] <rick_h> and only THEN ask folks to spend their time looking at it
[14:20] <cmaloney> But above all make it clear that it's not a hearing
[14:20] <rick_h> but watch out, if the PR needs a lot of annotations then the code might as well
[14:20] <rick_h> which means comments and docs and ... vs just a PR comment
[14:23] <brousch> Heh, looking at the code. He's definitely gonna need some PEP8 love.  He is learning PYthon while writing this
[14:24] <cmaloney> Nice
[14:24] <brousch> So far he's learned C++ at UM. He's going into Sophomore year
[14:26] <notlikethesoup> morning
[14:27] <cmaloney> Ah, so you have C++ as interpreted via Python
[14:28] <jrwren> pet peeve: making a class when you don't need a class. :)
[14:29] <cmaloney> class Addition(object):
[14:29] <cmaloney>    def __init__(self, a, b):
[14:30] <cmaloney>     self.a = a
[14:30] <cmaloney>     self.b = b
[14:30] <cmaloney>     def add_setter(a):
[14:30] <cmaloney>     self.a = a
[14:30] <cmaloney> feh, I goofed my own goofy example
[14:30] <cmaloney> def add_setter_a(a):
[14:31] <cmaloney>   self.a = a
[14:31] <cmaloney> etc.
[14:40] <jrwren> even modern c++ doesn't use classes unless needed.
[14:40] <jrwren> Stroustrup even said he was astounded at how C++ was used and that it was never his intent for classes to be used so much.
[14:42] <rick_h> jrwren: but but but OOP dude!
[14:43] <rick_h> when classes are mistaken for a namespace
[14:45] <cmaloney> They're not? :)
[14:45]  * cmaloney whistles at the number of times he used a class as a global.
[14:48] <cmaloney> So is it pretty much a given that when something say "this doesn't use a Framework" that JQuery 3 is not a framework? :)
[14:49] <cmaloney> (I know that's a strange question, but saw a tutorial that said "Single Page Application with no Frameworks" and the first few paragraphs say "we're using JQuery / Handlebars because it's easier to manipulate the DOM that way")
[15:00] <jrwren> access to globals being slow in python is a pretty good reason to always use classes... in python :p
[15:10] <cmaloney> heh
[15:11] <cmaloney> Hadn't heard that global access in Python is slow
[15:11] <jrwren> i always forget that it is, but yes, it is.
[15:12] <jrwren> https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSpeed/PerformanceTips#Local_Variables
[15:12] <cmaloney> huh
[15:12] <cmaloney> Ah, because it takes longer for it to find it
[15:12] <cmaloney> that makes sense
[15:12] <cmaloney> shouldn't be miliseconds though, but huh
[15:13] <jrwren> yeah, its not a big deal at all... because if you care about perf, you'll use pypy anyway and it won't matter.
[15:13] <cmaloney> Heh
[15:13] <cmaloney> I tried playing around with CPython to speed p a probram gor JoDee. That was fun
[15:13] <cmaloney> s/CPython/Cython/
[15:14] <cmaloney> and pypy
[15:14] <jrwren> cython is awesome. I used it a lot at arbor.
[15:14] <cmaloney> also ufora, but couldn't get it working right
[15:14] <cmaloney> though I think that was my fault
[15:14] <cmaloney> but seemed rather heavy for what I was trying to do
[15:40] <notlikethesoup> mm python tho
[16:57] <greg-g> "do you wear underwear? when you're in bed?" "no" "me neither, watch!"
[16:57] <greg-g> oh to overhear 5-7 year olds playing in the morning
[16:59] <cmaloney> o.0
[17:00] <cmaloney> I wear underwear in bed
[17:02] <greg-g> rowan wears pants, but not underwear, most of the time
[17:02] <greg-g> tmi? :)
[17:02] <cmaloney> meh. Whatever works.
[17:03] <_stink__> my kids are usually the opposite
[17:03] <cmaloney> pants optional?
[17:03] <brousch> _stink__++
[17:03] <_stink__> yes
[17:03] <greg-g> well, that is when he *does* wear pants, usually he's "shirt cocking" (as they say at burning man)
[17:04] <_stink__> or perhaps discouraged
[17:04] <_stink__> haha
[17:05] <jrwren> oh, my!
[17:06] <cmaloney> shirt cocking?
[17:06] <cmaloney> "This is the type of nudity known as "shirtcocking." Shirtcocking is when a man wears a top but is naked from the waist down. I have also heard this look referred to as "the toddler," or "Porky Pigging.""
[17:07] <cmaloney> Thank you, Quora
[17:07] <rick_h> heh I had to look it up as well
[17:07] <_stink__> i just used the ol' imagination
[17:07] <cmaloney> I had a vague idea, but needed the confirmation
[17:07] <rick_h> yea, sometimes you have to go "no...that can't really ..."
 Last I talked with him he was going through a rough patch
[17:21] <notlikethesoup> we were at a wedding and bachelor party together two and three weeks ago, it was a good time and he was good
[17:22] <notlikethesoup> hell, he helped me out a lot because i drank a bit too much haha
[17:23] <notlikethesoup> welcome to open bar weddings
[17:25] <cmaloney> Leave your keys at the door
[17:26] <notlikethesoup> our airbnb was only about a half-mile walk away, it was great
[17:47] <notlikethesoup> wb mrgoodcat :)
[17:47] <mrgoodcat> hi
[17:48] <mrgoodcat> my client keeps re-nicking me to "danny" when we netwplit