[00:00] <SpamapS> just fire up a merge proposal for the drafts directory?
[00:01] <jimbaker> SpamapS, that would be a normal process. and this info would be really cool to have, and a nice way to integrate w/ puppet too
[00:16] <hazmat> SpamapS, write a rest formatted specification, put in docs/specifications of a branch, and propose on list
[00:16] <hazmat> SpamapS, alternatively just start the discussion on list
[00:17] <SpamapS> I may try my hand at implementing it too... it should be pretty easy, as there's no data storage requirement.. just a proxy to the real info really
[00:37] <hazmat> SpamapS, to save time/effort, i'd try'd to start the discussion b4 impl
[00:41] <SpamapS> hazmat: but I wanna play with my six-guns!
[00:43] <hazmat> SpamapS, word.. i've been thinking about plugin apis
[00:43] <hazmat> probably wouldn't help here.. but it would be nice to have
[00:44] <hazmat> i'd like to keep playing with the auto-resolve  i put together... which might work as a plugin
[00:44] <SpamapS> yeah actually thats probably the right way to go since there are some murky aspects of what we actually want auto-resolution to do
[00:44] <hazmat> SpamapS, course there's always room for a BFG  ;-)
[00:46] <hazmat> SpamapS, minus the remote repo stuff, the one committed, is pretty solid.. takes into account env, pull extra deps and adds any needed relations (including against existing services).. but that's pretty trivial.. multiple providers in the environment and the formula are pretty much random selection.. remote should be straightforward.. still needs some tweaks on the repository lookup order (using the repository found for a dep as the primary lookup f
[00:46] <hazmat> or the next dep for any formulas from that repo)
[00:47] <hazmat> with the remote repo the sharing store should be pretty nice
[01:01] <SpamapS> hazmat: I think we need a new way to express "recommends" and "suggests" type relations in formulas. I don't want to force people to use munin, just because mysql supports it.
[01:01] <hazmat> SpamapS, i don't think that should be in the mysql formula
[01:01] <hazmat> its not core to its responsibilties
[01:01] <SpamapS> agreed, its a policy thing :)
[01:01] <SpamapS> but it needs to be *doable* before I can take it out
[01:01] <SpamapS> because I want to graph stuff, damnit. ;)
[01:02] <SpamapS> also mediawiki works great w/o memcache
[01:02] <hazmat> either inheritance, possibly containment based (pull additional stuff from env) or policy formulas.. policy formulas are a little better in avoiding possible tight association to a machine
[01:02] <hazmat> yeah.. graphing stuff is required..
[01:02] <hazmat> first rule of devops.. measure
[01:03] <SpamapS> I was thinking maybe the answer to the policy thing is to have a way to model your desired machines much the same way you model your services
[01:03] <SpamapS> which is sort of like inheritance
[01:04] <SpamapS> like, inherit this class "ubuntu::mymachine" and morph it into ubuntu::mymachine::mysql
[01:13] <hazmat> SpamapS, tight machine coupling to units is best avoided
[01:13] <hazmat> it makes unit migration much harder
[01:14] <hazmat> either for scaling up compute capacity available to a unit.... or resurrection in the case of a dead machine
[01:15] <SpamapS> hrm, I guess what I mean is, I want to be able to say two things.. 1) I want my machines to look like X, and 2) I want my service to be deployed on my machines.
[01:15] <SpamapS> Right now we're saying "I want my machine to look like a bare bones Ubuntu machine"
[01:24] <hazmat> SpamapS, true.. the question of what to do with 1) is basically how does ensemble handle machine configuration management
[01:24] <hazmat> 2) is a little dangerous.. because if the service depends on the machine configuration than we loose reuse
[01:25] <hazmat> re 1) we either adopt an existing configuration management system, adopt policy formulas, or grow our own declarative config
[01:27] <hazmat> pretty much every corp env.. i've seen has a bunch of policy associated to a machine.. nfs mounts to sans, auth mech integration, monitoring/alerting.
[01:37] <SpamapS> hazmat: I'd say that we should make sure we have a hand in the machine config, as that way we can at least have a chance at early warning that a formula and a machine policy conflict
[01:38] <SpamapS> hazmat: most of what is "machine policy" in big corp environments tho, is to get around how hard it is to deploy things. :)
[14:43] <kim0> niemeyer: morning :)
[14:43] <niemeyer> Good morning!
[14:44] <kim0> niemeyer: I noticed your debug-hooks branch .. is it in a useable state ?
[14:44] <niemeyer> kim0: It actually is!
[14:44] <niemeyer> kim0: I'll be finishing it within the next hour or so, so any input you have will be welcome
[14:45] <kim0> niemeyer: well I tried using it
[14:45] <kim0> but it blocks on "connecting to remote machine ... "
[14:45] <kim0> I killed it multiple times .. always the same
[14:45] <niemeyer> kim0: Have you tweaked your configuration to actually use the branch in the server side as well?
[14:45] <kim0> ah :)
[14:45] <kim0> nope
[14:45] <niemeyer> kim0: Yeah, that won't work
[14:46] <kim0> ok I'll do it
[14:46] <kim0> thanks
[14:46] <niemeyer> kim0: ensemble-branch: lp:~niemeyer/ensemble/debug-hook-fixes
[14:46] <niemeyer> kim0: next to type: ec2
[14:46] <kim0> Yeah thanks .. I did that one before
[14:48] <kim0> Q: does relation-get foo, have a non-zero exit status if foo has not been set yet?
[14:54] <niemeyer> kim0: IIRC, no.. for relation-get, not setting is equivalent to the empty value
[14:54] <niemeyer> kim0: So much so that relation-set foo= will erase the value
[15:18] <_mup_> ensemble/debug-hook-fixes r243 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:18] <_mup_> - Don't overwrite config if it exists.
[15:18] <_mup_> - Tests work again, even though a bit difficult to test the shell
[15:18] <_mup_>   scripts themselves without a real run.
[15:18] <_mup_> Now, for some real world testing.
[15:19] <niemeyer> kim0: Just pushed the RC (Review Candidate ;-), if you want to test it
[15:19] <niemeyer> I'm doing the same here
[15:19] <kim0> great .. pulling
[15:37] <_mup_> Bug #792406 was filed: "Will wait" never returns <Ensemble:Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/792406 >
[15:42] <niemeyer> kim0: There's a bug on it, btw
[15:42] <kim0> niemeyer: it's not finish initialization ?
[15:43] <kim0> finishing*
[15:44] <niemeyer> Yep
[15:44] <niemeyer> kim0: Am on it
[15:45] <_mup_> ensemble/debug-hook-fixes r244 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:45] <_mup_> Forgot to rename the control import after the rename of
[15:45] <_mup_> the debug_hook file to reflect the actual debug-hooks
[15:45] <_mup_> command name.
[15:45] <niemeyer> kim0: ^
[15:45] <niemeyer> Pushing
[15:46] <kim0> niemeyer: is there some way for drupal/0 to talk to drupal/1 ?
[15:46] <kim0> as in tell it, "I already did the DB setup .. just use it"
[15:53] <niemeyer> kim0: That's not a task for them
[15:54] <niemeyer> kim0: The mysql units are the ones doing the database setup
[15:55] <kim0> niemeyer: I kinda meant .. I populated the DB tables
[15:55] <hallyn> hey - i'm trying to set up relations between a master and new slave node in jenkins.  Is there a definitive order in which the master and slave's -joined hooks fire?
[15:56] <niemeyer> hallyn: Hey Serge!  Very happy to see you're experimenting with it
[15:56] <hallyn> actually, maybe i'm being silly.  i guess one of the steps i wanted to sync doesn't need to wait
[15:56] <hallyn> niemeyer: i'm really enjoying it!
[15:56] <niemeyer> hallyn: Woot!
[15:56] <niemeyer> hallyn: There isn't an order
[15:56] <niemeyer> hallyn: On purpose, mostly
[15:57] <hallyn> ok
[15:57] <kim0> niemeyer: currently this is done by drupal/0 .. I'd like to tell drupal/1 to skip creating the tables and part and just connect (I could ofc check if the tables exist, just wondering if there's a better way)
[15:57] <niemeyer> hallyn: But you can create the ordering by setting/getting relation settings as you see fit
[15:58] <hallyn> what do you mean?  in particular - i think i don't need this after all, but am wondering - waht if i need to do a 5-way protocol between master/server?
[15:58] <niemeyer> hallyn: We should document better that feature, actually.
[15:58] <hallyn> master/slave, that is
[15:58] <niemeyer> hallyn: That's fine
[15:58] <hallyn> oh, i can use relation-{set,get} as sync points?
[15:58] <hallyn> suddenly i'm using Ada!
[15:58] <niemeyer> hallyn: Yeah.. you can do something like this:
[15:59] <niemeyer> hallyn: if [ -z "relation-get someinfo" ]; then exit 0; fi # Data isn't there yet
[15:59] <niemeyer> hallyn: Ensemble guarantees that when anything on the relation is changed, the hook is called again
[15:59] <hallyn> aaah
[15:59] <hallyn> makes sense
[15:59] <hallyn> meanwhile, -joined gets called for both ends, right?
[15:59] <niemeyer> Sorry, that should be backticks, but you get the idea
[15:59] <hallyn> yup :)
[15:59] <niemeyer> hallyn: Yeah, joined is a single shot
[16:00] <hallyn> cool.  thanks.  i'm off to try and finish this then
[16:00] <niemeyer> hallyn: That's awesome, please let us know how it goes
[16:01] <niemeyer> kim0: There is something for exactly this case, but we haven't put much work on it yet
[16:01] <niemeyer> kim0: Besides client/server relations, we have something called peer relations
[16:01] <niemeyer> kim0: Their use is precisely for that kind of thing
[16:01] <kim0> a ha
[16:01] <niemeyer> kim0: You can talk to the other units of the node
[16:02] <kim0> ok np
[16:02] <niemeyer> kim0: Be aware though, we need to test it :-)
[16:02] <kim0> I'll just interrogate the DB
[16:02] <niemeyer> kim0: That's a good way for the moment
[16:02] <niemeyer> kim0: peer relations will be perfect for that in the near future
[16:02]  * kim0 proceeding to torture the debug-hooks branch
[16:02] <niemeyer> kim0: Sweet :-)
[16:02] <kim0> hehe
[16:03] <niemeyer> jimbaker: ping
[16:03] <kim0> can you guys silence the txaws warning :)
[16:03] <niemeyer> kim0: Which warning?
[16:03] <kim0> /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/txaws/ec2/client.py:223: FutureWarning: The behavior of this method will change in future versions.  Use specific 'len(elem)' or 'elem is not None' test instead.
[16:03] <niemeyer> kim0: Weird.. I'm not seeing that
[16:03] <kim0> I'm probably using an old version
[16:09] <kim0> niemeyer: I though tmux was using screen cli shortcuts ?
[16:09] <kim0> thought*
[16:11] <kim0> niemeyer: also, is it normal that I don't see ensemble-log messages from install hooks
[16:13] <niemeyer> kim0: Which shortcuts are you missing?
[16:13] <kim0> Ctrl-A " ?
[16:14] <niemeyer> kim0: re. logs, what's the context?
[16:14] <niemeyer> kim0: What does that do?
[16:14] <kim0> niemeyer: shows a list of windows .. allowing visual selection
[16:14] <kim0> it was just the first thing I tried .. I see now it's not that bad :)
[16:15] <jimbaker> niemeyer, hi
[16:15] <niemeyer> kim0: CTRL-A 1?
[16:15] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Hey jim
[16:15] <kim0> niemeyer: using deploy drupal .. the install hook fires, calls ensemble-log .. but that doesn't show in my debug-log session
[16:15] <kim0> jimbaker: morning o/
[16:15] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Ensemble needs some more love on the connection establishment front
[16:15] <kim0> any default filters exist ?
[16:15] <jimbaker> kim0, beautiful morning here
[16:15] <kim0> :) sweet
[16:16] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? yes
[16:16] <niemeyer> ProviderError: Interaction with machine provider failed: ConnectionTimeoutException('could not connect before timeout after 1 retries',)
[16:16] <niemeyer> 2011-06-03 12:02:44,706 ERROR ProviderError: Interaction with machine provider failed: ConnectionTimeoutException('could not connect before timeout after 1 retries',)
[16:16] <niemeyer> etc
[16:16] <niemeyer> jimbaker: It fails in different ways in different cases, doesn't wait properly, etc
[16:16] <kim0> Would be awesome if we could reuse connections as well :)
[16:16] <niemeyer> jimbaker: After you're done with exposure, it'd be good to spend some time actually trying to use it for real
[16:17] <niemeyer> kim0: Just got my time machine.. ensemble open-tunnel
[16:17] <kim0> have no idea what does that do ?
[16:17] <niemeyer> kim0: What you asked for :)
[16:17] <kim0> oh!
[16:17] <jimbaker> niemeyer, ok. from what you posted, seems like a matter of tuning, but i'll look at it in depth as you suggest
[16:18] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Yeah, tunning/bug fixing/polishing.. whatever we want to call it.. we just need a smoother experience on connection establishment
[16:18] <niemeyer> jimbaker: How's that exposure stuff going?
[16:18] <jimbaker> niemeyer, agreed. probably bumping the retries would suffice
[16:18] <jimbaker> niemeyer, bumping up that is
[16:19] <niemeyer> jimbaker: No, it likely wouldn't..
[16:19] <niemeyer> jimbaker: I'm pretty sure *1* retry isn't the number we have today
[16:20] <bcsaller> bug #792406 sounds like the halting problem ;)
[16:20] <_mup_> Bug #792406: "Will wait" never returns <Ensemble:Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/792406 >
[16:20] <kim0> bin/ensemble debug-log -i '*'   →  still doesn't show ensemble-log messages fired at install/start stage ?!
[16:20] <niemeyer> bcsaller: Hey!
[16:20] <jimbaker> niemeyer, exposure is going fine - i have hook commands working, just need some more testing; and i'm waiting on the review of the expose-provision-service-hierarchy review
[16:20] <bcsaller> hey
[16:21] <kim0> bcsaller: hi there
[16:21] <niemeyer> jimbaker: You have an open review on the pre-requisite branch
[16:21] <niemeyer> jimbaker: I'm waiting for you to address this one before looking at the next one
[16:21] <niemeyer> jimbaker: The branch is pretty simple, so I was expecting you'd get through it quickly
[16:21] <jimbaker> niemeyer, ahh, ok, i will work on that now then
[16:22] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Are you doing debug-log + debug-hooks?
[16:23] <niemeyer> Sorry
[16:23] <niemeyer> kim0: Are you doing debug-log + debug-hooks?
[16:23] <hallyn> all right, if i have formulas 'x' and 'x-slave', with x providing master: x and x-slave providing slave:x (and each requiring the other), should the forumales be called 'x-relation-joined' or 'master-relation-joined'?
[16:23] <kim0> niemeyer: yeah
[16:23] <kim0> is there some conflict
[16:23] <jimbaker> niemeyer, yes, it is really a matter of determining some code patterns you were asking about to see what's going on - most of that came from the waiting for godot redux work
[16:23] <niemeyer> kim0: Yeah, the output from the hook on debug-hooks is your terminal, so you won't see it in the logs
[16:24] <jimbaker> as in, presumably already vetted code, i wanted to see if i made some mistake in applying the pattern, and if not, how else is it used
[16:24] <niemeyer> kim0: I'm not touching that area on this branch, and I'm not aware of any issues on debug-log, so if you have any known issues on debug-log, please bring them up
[16:24] <kim0> niemeyer: sorry, in the install hook stage .. I hadn't opened debug-hooks yet
[16:24] <kim0> niemeyer: Also .. once a window opens in tmux .. it cds to /usr/lib/ensemble/txzookeeper .. not where the hooks are
[16:24] <niemeyer> kim0: Do note, however, that today debug log only starts logging after you execute the command
[16:25] <niemeyer> kim0: Yes, we talked about that yesterday
[16:25] <kim0> should I open a bug on that
[16:25] <niemeyer> kim0: As I pointed out yesterday, this is a more general issue.  All hooks are executed in another directory. We have to fix that generically, and put the hooks to execute with curdir set to the formula dir.
[16:25] <niemeyer> kim0: I _think_ we already have a bug open for that
[16:26] <kim0> ok got you
[16:26] <niemeyer> kim0: That said, please do check it out and file if you can't find it
[16:26] <niemeyer> kim0: This feels like something I can address right after this is finished
[16:26] <niemeyer> kim0: This first one, on debug-hooks, that is
[16:26]  * kim0 nods
[16:27] <kim0> cd to hooks dir .. ok
[16:29] <kim0> getting strange debug-log output → 2011-06-03 17:22:51,493 unit:drupal/0: hook.output ERROR: /tmp/tmpe7x6qc-db-relation-joined: line 37: kill: (2378) - No such process
[16:33] <jimbaker> niemeyer, SSHClient.connect controls this with a timeout parameter. maybe this should be exposed to our commands as a  standard param or env var. right now it defaults to 30s.
[16:34] <jimbaker> niemeyer, there is some testing to verify that the timeout actually is effective (and so can have more than one retry), but it is mock testing.
[16:35] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Please do finish the expose stuff before working on this
[16:35] <kim0> niemeyer: please check that kill error ^ looks weird
[16:35] <jimbaker> niemeyer, sounds good
[16:36] <niemeyer> kim0: Indeed, that sounds quite interesting
[16:36] <niemeyer> kim0: Investigatingt
[16:36] <niemeyer> Actually, I'll just merge a branch before that
[16:39] <hallyn> ambiguous endpoints
[16:41] <kim0> Writing formulas is much fun :)
[16:41] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk r240 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:41] <_mup_> Merge close-zk-port branch [r=jimbaker,hazmat]
[16:41] <_mup_> This prevents a very silly security issue which allows external people
[16:41] <_mup_> to dial into the zookeeper port.
[16:41] <_mup_> The expose+open-port work in progress at the moment will address this
[16:41] <_mup_> in a better way, and the follow up work on ZK ACLs will close the door
[16:41] <_mup_> more properly.
[16:41] <kim0> I am genuinly happy btw :) no sarcasm
[16:42] <SpamapS> kim0: +1 .. :)
[16:42] <kim0> SpamapS: morning o/
[16:43] <niemeyer> hallyn: When establishing a relation?
[16:43] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Yo!  Awesome news re. the talk approval
[16:44] <niemeyer> kim0: Aha, thanks for the warning re. kill
[16:44] <niemeyer> kim0: It wasn't a bug, but rather a message we shouldn't print
[16:44] <SpamapS> niemeyer: just a bof, but definitely should be cool. I actually hope the puppet and chef guys will be there (they're all speaking at oscon).
[16:44] <niemeyer> kim0: kill -0 was expected to fail at some point there
[16:44] <SpamapS> no surprise that puppet labs would be there.. given its in Portland where their home office is.
[16:45] <kim0> niemeyer: cool .. another suspicious message would be → 2011-06-03 17:22:51,565 unit:drupal/0: hook.output ERROR: duplicate session: drupal/0
[16:46] <niemeyer> kim0: Hah, cool, same case
[16:46] <niemeyer> kim0: That's actually one of the bugs being fixed
[16:46] <niemeyer> kim0: Before it would simply create the two sessions
[16:47]  * kim0 nods
[16:49] <niemeyer> kim0: Ok, both fixed locally.. will do a last run after lunch, and then submit for review
[16:49] <SpamapS> niemeyer: how do I take advantage of the open-tunnel command btw?
[16:49] <niemeyer> kim0: Thanks a lot for your help
[16:49] <kim0> niemeyer: aye aye
[16:50] <niemeyer> kim0: Please ping me if you find anything else you feel would need attention
[16:50] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Just open it in a different terminal
[16:50] <kim0> niemeyer: I'm running it in bg &
[16:50] <niemeyer> SpamapS: While the command is open/executing, every other command will make use of the tunnel if possible
[16:50] <kim0> niemeyer: doesn't make status faster ?
[16:50] <SpamapS> niemeyer: I was thinking it would give me some sort of indication its working. I tried reading the code and I have *no* idea how it can possibly work. ;)
[16:51] <niemeyer> SpamapS: It's actually fairly simple.  We make heavy use of a feature of SSH which is not very explored, which is why you don't find much logic in there.
[16:51] <niemeyer> SpamapS: The best indication is that your commands will be blazing fast :)
[16:52] <SpamapS> niemeyer: is it using the Master/Slave stuff?
[16:52] <hallyn> niemeyer: oh, yes.  when establishing relation.  probably my extraneous statements inthe metadata.yaml.  trying again
[16:53] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Yeah
[16:53] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Check prepare_ssh_sharing, under ensemble/state/sshforward.py
[16:53] <niemeyer> hallyn: Ah, that's fine
[16:53] <niemeyer> hallyn: In general it just means there are multiple possible ways to make the relation
[16:54] <niemeyer> hallyn: You can disambiguate by providing the relation name in addition to the service name
[16:54] <niemeyer> hallyn: e.g. add-relation myservice1:therelationname service2
[16:54] <niemeyer> hallyn: For instance
[16:55] <hallyn> oh, will try that if it fails again, thaks.  but i was specifying 'provides: slave: x', which probably is confusing
[16:55] <SpamapS> the mediawiki formula has two mysql interface requires relations, so one always has to specify whether they want the 'db' relation or the 'slave' relation.
[16:55] <niemeyer> Ok, lunch!
[16:55] <niemeyer> biab
[16:58] <kim0> niemeyer: is there a good way to "debug-hooks" before "install" hook fires .. other than launching debug-hooks in the nick of time
[16:58]  * SpamapS notes that ensemble should Recommend: python-pydot
[16:59] <_mup_> txzookeeper/session-event-handling r42 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:59] <_mup_> watch wrapper that diverts session events to a session event callback set on a connection.
[16:59] <kim0> SpamapS: what does that do
[17:00] <SpamapS> kim0: bzr status --format dot
[17:00] <SpamapS> err
[17:00] <SpamapS> haha
[17:00] <SpamapS> ensemble status --format dot
[17:00] <SpamapS> I keep mixing those two up. :-P
[17:01] <kim0> installing
[17:01] <SpamapS> hmm doesn't seem to work ...
[17:01] <SpamapS> bcsaller: having trouble using ensembl status --format dot ..
[17:02] <SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/617639/
[17:02] <bcsaller> ensemble status --format svg --output /tmp/status.svg ; eog /tmp/status.svg
[17:02] <SpamapS> Oh!
[17:03] <bcsaller> though that error is confusing, it looks like there is some other issue
[17:03] <SpamapS> same error
[17:04] <kim0> bcsaller: wow that rox :)
[17:04] <bcsaller> SpamapS: can you email me the dot file, it seems like there is some version error happening here, I want to see if I can find it
[17:05] <SpamapS> bcsaller: where would the dot file be?
[17:05] <bcsaller> hmm. nowhere if you can't even generate it I guess :-/
[17:07] <SpamapS> bcsaller: Here's my status output... http://paste.ubuntu.com/617644/
[17:07] <SpamapS> You can reproduce very easily with the mediawiki test from principia-tools
[17:07] <bcsaller> the first error listed a tmp file, is that left around or cleaned up?
[17:07] <SpamapS> bcsaller: if you have a quick answer that would be awesome.. trying to put together a "WTF is ensemble" blog post
[17:07] <SpamapS> cleaned up
[17:42] <_mup_> Bug #792448 was filed: status dot ouput fails with errors <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/792448 >
[17:43] <kim0> Is it ok to put template files besides hooks .. and use them from the hooks ?
[17:43] <SpamapS> yep
[17:43] <SpamapS> kim0: the whole formula dir is zipped up and sent to the machine
[17:43] <kim0> cool
[17:44] <kim0> trying to embed php code in bash scripts is no fun :)
[17:52] <SpamapS> Yeah I just went ahead and wrote a few hooks in PHP ;)
[17:53] <SpamapS> so I could extract stuff from includes/settings files.
[17:53] <SpamapS> PHP actually has a quite rich set of capabilities for file manipulation
[17:54] <SpamapS> Hmm ok so if I wanted to spawn m1.small's instead of t1.micro's ... anybody have a clue how I might do that?
[17:54] <SpamapS> I thought changing environments.yaml to add 'default-instance-type: m1.small' would do it, but still seem to be spawning t1.micro's
[17:56] <hazmat> SpamapS, hmm
[17:56] <hazmat> default-instance-type should do it
[17:56]  * hazmat digs
[17:57] <SpamapS> environments:
[17:57] <SpamapS>   sample:
[17:57] <SpamapS>     type: ec2
[17:57] <hazmat> SpamapS, default-instance-type: m1.small after that should do it
[17:58] <hazmat> hmm.. oh against an existing environment
[17:58] <SpamapS> right
[17:58] <SpamapS> can I specify it to add-unit/deploy ?
[17:58] <SpamapS> that would be t3h awesome
[17:59] <SpamapS> also before I go and try it, would you expect an instance that reboots to re-join ensemble properly?
[17:59] <SpamapS> because I can always convert t1.micro's to m1.small's
[17:59] <hazmat> SpamapS, no re rejoin.. not until we do upstart integration
[17:59] <SpamapS> so on boot up it won't get run?
[18:00] <hazmat> SpamapS, yeah
[18:00] <SpamapS> doh
[18:00] <hazmat> SpamapS, the config setting change locally to environments.yaml is  propagated to the provisioning agent on deploy
[18:00] <SpamapS> so .. that would be something that needs to be overridable at runtime with a cmdline switch
[18:01] <hazmat> making a provider image identifier part of the machine state would allow for the cmd line switch, to be processed by the provisioning agent.
[18:02] <SpamapS> no offense, but all I see there is "eep opp glorp cmd line switch ok gru blorg" ;)
[18:03] <jimbaker> hazmat, in the watcher function in this paste (http://paste.ubuntu.com/617670/), is it possible for the connection to be lost between the test in line 13 and the watch in line 16?
[18:03] <SpamapS> hah, just got my AWS bill for May.. $67 .. a new record!
[18:04] <hazmat> SpamapS, i think i got to the 200s playing around with cloudformation.. that was painful
[18:04] <hazmat> SpamapS, fair enough re klingon speak
[18:04] <SpamapS> hazmat: just giving you a hard time because I am too lazy to read the specs. ;)
[18:05]  * niemeyer waves
[18:05] <niemeyer> kim0: We have plans for that
[18:06] <niemeyer> kim0: We discussed a bit the idea of having something like deploy --debug-hooks
[18:06] <SpamapS> You know.. t1.micro's are really unpredictable for performance at all. :-P
[18:06] <niemeyer> kim0: To fire a new unit with debugging on
[18:06] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Yeah, I think we should switch back to small by default
[18:06] <SpamapS> I have 6 in a mediawiki right now.. sometimes its *FAST* .. then a few of them just *stall*
[18:06] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Otherwise Ensemble will end up being blamed for this
[18:07] <hazmat> jimbaker, its concievable, but if your getting that, there's background activity when the test closes.. which we're trying to avoid.. typically the teardown closes a client, to kill watches before clearing out the tree
[18:07] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Yeah, that's exactly what they advertise them to be
[18:07] <SpamapS> niemeyer: agreed, especially since people can't take advantage of the reboot-into-something-bigger game of t1.micro
[18:07] <jimbaker> hazmat, this is in reference to https://code.launchpad.net/~jimbaker/ensemble/expose-watch-exposed-flag/+merge/63066, but the specific code is the watch_resolved function, which has the same guard
[18:07] <niemeyer> SpamapS: It can spike in performance, at the price of stalling completely
[18:07] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Cool, let's do this then
[18:07] <SpamapS> I'm going to re-run my tests with m1.small and compare.
[18:07] <SpamapS> They're, what, 2x the price?
[18:07] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Sweet, let us know
[18:08] <niemeyer> SpamapS: More
[18:08] <hazmat> jimbaker, yeah.. its possibly not relevant anymore post godot-redux
[18:08] <niemeyer> SpamapS: But it's worth it
[18:08] <SpamapS> I was thinking it would be cool if we can also add in spot pricing capabilities...
[18:08] <jimbaker> niemeyer, does that make sense to you?
[18:08] <niemeyer> jimbaker: What's that?
[18:08] <SpamapS> Since we can always add units.. spot priced units would be ideal for expanding beyond a certain level.. if they disappear.. oops, just add a full price unit.
[18:08] <hazmat> jimbaker, i added that in when doing looped tests of some of the watch apis
[18:08] <jimbaker> hazmat, correct, it's necessary to support such looped tests
[18:09] <hazmat> jimbaker, i guess the question is are you seeing a problem?
[18:09] <hazmat> and if so what is it
[18:09] <jimbaker> niemeyer, this in reference to your review of the expose-watch-exposed-flag branch, and asking why this guard was necessary
[18:09] <jimbaker> hazmat, i'm trying to investigate niemeyer'
[18:09] <niemeyer> jimbaker: and what's the conclusion?
[18:09] <jimbaker> s review point
[18:11] <jimbaker> hazmat says it is necessary, and that there should not be a scenario where the connection is in fact lost between the guard and the establishment of the watch
[18:11] <jimbaker> which was my concern
[18:12] <jimbaker> it would be nice if we could have the need for this guard tested outside of using -u loops
[18:12] <SpamapS> bcsaller: fyi, its something to do with the scale or make-up of the status.. if I do it with just the bootstrap node I don't get the dot error
[18:12] <jimbaker> maybe a separate branch for that, so we can do it for all the watches using this guard?
[18:14] <niemeyer> jimbaker, hazmat: I don't understand why this is necessary in this specific location, and not everywhere else in Ensemble
[18:14] <bcsaller> SpamapS: interesting. The test case for it uses a med. size multi-node topology so this is a little unexpected. I'll try to get to it later today
[18:15] <jimbaker> niemeyer, i understand the pragmatic reason for it. the tests otherwise fail. hazmat, anything else you would want to add?
[18:15] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Why do they fail?
[18:16] <jimbaker> niemeyer, for the same reason they always do - we are still doing something in the background when the tests are being torn down
[18:17] <jimbaker> niemeyer, so there is a probably a good solution in this case
[18:17] <jimbaker> write better tests :)
[18:18] <jimbaker> in thinking this through, what's confusing about the guard is that it is making an assertion about being connected which as you mention applies to any code hitting zk
[18:18] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Yes, please :)
[18:18] <jimbaker> niemeyer, do you want me to fix the other watches with this problem?
[18:19] <niemeyer> jimbaker: There shouldn't be background logic happening on tests in unexpected ways
[18:19] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Not in this branch
[18:19] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Just don't introduce more of it
[18:19] <jimbaker> niemeyer, ok
[18:20] <hazmat> jimbaker, if you remove the check, can you run the tests looped?
[18:20] <jimbaker> niemeyer, actually most of the work i spent on the corresponding branch (expose-provision-service-hierarchy) was cleaning up this problem. so certainly one that has a familiar quality
[18:21] <jimbaker> hazmat, no, they will always fail
[18:21] <jimbaker> hazmat, but the check should not be there at all, per what niemeyer has said
[18:21] <SpamapS> oh yeah, m1.small already just *feels* faster to navigate
[18:21] <jimbaker> since it is compensating for bad tests
[18:21] <niemeyer> Right
[18:21] <jimbaker> that don't properly clean up
[18:21] <hazmat> jimbaker, unless the watch is stopped there is always a chance for background activity on a watch
[18:22] <jimbaker> hazmat, what can we do to fix that then?
[18:22] <jimbaker> seems like a fundamental thing to get right
[18:23] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Don't allow a watch to stay alive after the test has finished, ever
[18:23] <hazmat> the state request protocol have lifecycle methods to control stopping them
[18:23] <hazmat> jimbaker, in the interim.. raising a stopwatcher from the callback is an alternative
[18:23] <niemeyer> hazmat: What about closing the connection?
[18:23] <jimbaker> hazmat, right, that's what i do to control such watches for the provision agent tests
[18:24] <jimbaker> niemeyer, that sounds like a good way to test this type of solution :)
[18:24] <niemeyer> jimbaker: We do this in several places already
[18:25] <jimbaker> niemeyer, sounds good, i will look for that code
[18:25] <niemeyer> jimbaker: and it's always worked for me in the places I had such logic
[18:26] <niemeyer> jimbaker: See tearDown of StateTestBase
[18:26] <jimbaker> hazmat, it seems to me that we are moving to supporting StopWatcher in all the watches. certainly the one that is to be fixed for now that's the case, in fact that's part of the changes in this branch
[18:26] <jimbaker> niemeyer, thanks
[18:26] <hazmat> niemeyer, that's part of the problem, connection close while the watch is firing in the background
[18:26] <niemeyer> hazmat: Well, that means a watch is firing as part of the test action itself
[18:27] <niemeyer> hazmat: Which falls back to the conversation we had before
[18:27] <niemeyer> hazmat: Currently we sleep in those cases, we need a way to sync up the zk connection
[18:28] <niemeyer> jimbaker: StopWatcher is unrelated, IMO
[18:28] <niemeyer> jimbaker: StopWatcher means the watch is being fired in the first place
[18:31] <_mup_> ensemble/debug-hook-fixes r245 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:31] <_mup_> Send error output to /dev/null in cases we expect the
[18:31] <_mup_> command to fail.
[18:33] <niemeyer> Ok, I think I'm happy with this branch
[18:33] <niemeyer> Will push it for review
[18:37] <hallyn> jamespage: yay, we're in business.
[18:37] <SpamapS> You guys ready to submit to principia? ;)
[18:37] <hallyn> now my only problem is lp isn't letting me create lp:~serge-hallyn/principia/oneiric/jenkins-slave/trunk
[18:38] <hallyn> it let me create jenkins/trunk...
[18:38] <SpamapS> hallyn: you have to create a package called 'jenkins-slave' .. bug in LP
[18:38] <SpamapS> hallyn: why isn't your formula just 'jenkins' though?
[18:38] <hallyn> SpamapS: the one for jenkins is :)
[18:39] <hallyn> i used a separate one for slaves
[18:39] <SpamapS> I'm curious why
[18:39] <SpamapS> I'd think thats just a difference of relations
[18:39] <hallyn> uh
[18:39] <hallyn> well i install different packages
[18:39] <hallyn> at init
[18:39] <hallyn> i probably could just install all everywhere...
[18:39] <SpamapS> Right, or you could just install the packages you need at the time that the relationship is established.
[18:40] <hallyn> meh
[18:40] <SpamapS> I'm guessing a jenkins slave is way simpler than a jenkins master
[18:40] <hallyn> so, wehreas i now have 'jenkins-relation-joined' in both jenkins and jenkins-slave,
[18:40] <hallyn> would i call them master/slave?
[18:40] <hallyn> ok first step
[18:40] <SpamapS> thats what I did in the mysql formula
[18:40] <hallyn> how do i 'create the package'?
[18:41] <hallyn> ok.
[18:41] <SpamapS> upload a dummy package to a ppa anywhere on lp
[18:41] <hallyn> i'll try consolidating
[18:41] <hallyn> got it
[18:41] <SpamapS> the benefit of consolidating is that you have one place to gather all of the operational knowledge for jenkins
[18:41] <hallyn> yeah
[18:41] <kim0> niemeyer: relation-get in "upgrade-formula" seems to blow up spectacularly
[18:41] <hallyn> will do and get bck to you
[18:41] <SpamapS> the benefit of not consolidating is you have two simpler formulas instead of one possibly more complex formula
[18:41] <SpamapS> kim0: probably same problem as the blow up in install
[18:42] <niemeyer> kim0: I've reported this bug yesterday
[18:42]  * kim0 nods
[18:42] <SpamapS> hallyn: its been working great for mysql... I deploy a master-db, then slave-db .. then relate them
[18:42] <niemeyer> kim0: upgrade-formula is not part of a relation, so it doesn't make sense to call relation-get
[18:42] <hallyn> how do you deploy them?
[18:42] <niemeyer> kim0: relation-get shouldn't break that way, though
[18:42] <kim0> yeah exactly
[18:42] <SpamapS> lp:principia-tools/tests/wiki-slave.sh is an example
[18:42] <hallyn> i've not gotten around to using multiple instances of a formula, dunno how to name them :)
[18:43] <SpamapS> ensemble deploy mysql master-db  names the service master-db
[18:46] <hallyn> jamespage: so if a slave first does 'sudo apt-get install jenkins' that shouldn't be a big deal right?  do you think it's wroth doing apt-get remove jenkins before installing jenkins-slave when it gets related to a master?
[18:47] <hazmat> kim0, the relation cli api only works currently in relation hooks
[18:47] <hallyn> oh, why not
[18:47] <kim0> hazmat: yeah got that .. still a more graceful error would be nicer :)
[18:48] <hazmat> indeed
[18:53] <SpamapS> hallyn: is jenkins-slave way way simpler than jenkins?
[18:53] <_mup_> ensemble/debug-hook-fixes r246 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:53] <_mup_> Self review:
[18:53] <_mup_> - Some additional comments.
[18:53] <_mup_> - Add new valid hooks on debug-hooks to tests, even though those tests
[18:53] <_mup_>   aren't really great. They will not break once we have more hooks.
[18:53] <SpamapS> hallyn: I mean, if you have to jump through hoops to morph it into something completely different, then I may say that its better to split them.
[18:56] <_mup_> ensemble/debug-hook-fixes r247 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:56] <_mup_> Minor comment fix.
[19:03] <jamespage> hallyn: well you will end up with another running jenkins master node in that case
[19:09] <SpamapS> hrm.. wordpress's "<code>" tag kind of sucks in my theme. :-/
[19:09] <hallyn> jamespage: right so i'm just doing apt-get purge
[19:11] <_mup_> ensemble/micro-is-slugish r241 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:11] <_mup_> Switch default instance type to t1.micro.  Does that work?
[19:11] <niemeyer> Erm
[19:11] <_mup_> ensemble/micro-is-slugish r241 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:11] <_mup_> Switch default instance type to m1.small.  Does that work?
[19:14] <hallyn> SpamapS: gr.  well it shoudl be pretty simple, it just forces me to become more familiar with the terminology.  So, the consolidated version isn't working yet for me...  working on it
[19:14] <SpamapS> hallyn: what I mean is, if jenkins-slave is an entirely different piece of software than jenkins, I may have been wrong that they should be consolidated.
[19:15] <jamespage> SpamapS, hallyn
[19:15]  * hallyn listens up
[19:15] <jamespage> I was thinking that once we have this working well I might that a look at writing a Jenkins plugin to automagically add and remove slaves depending on demand
[19:16] <jamespage> using ensemble
[19:17] <SpamapS> NICE
[19:18] <niemeyer> Sweet!
[19:18] <kim0> niemeyer: btw the open-tunnel isn't really working for me
[19:18] <niemeyer> jamespage: ensemble add-unit jenkins FTW!
[19:18] <niemeyer> kim0: What happens?
[19:18] <kim0> niemeyer: I think it's just equally slow
[19:18] <niemeyer> kim0: When doing what?
[19:18] <kim0> status
[19:19] <kim0> niemeyer: status takes 5.4s
[19:19] <niemeyer> kim0: status should definitely improve with the tunnel open
[19:20] <niemeyer> kim0: Let me try here
[19:20] <kim0> niemeyer: could u launch as enseble open-tunnel &
[19:20]  * niemeyer cranks another environment.. Amazon says Katching!
[19:20] <kim0> hehe
[19:21] <niemeyer> kim0: I'd recommned against it
[19:21] <niemeyer> kim0: Keep it open in the forefront
[19:21] <niemeyer> kim0: and put a warning in your wall saying "MY ENVIRONMENT IS EXPOSED"
[19:21] <kim0> the 2 times I tried it .. I bg'ed it
[19:21] <kim0> exposed ?!
[19:21] <kim0> isn't it only to my user?
[19:22] <niemeyer> kim0: You have a root tunnel to your environment's control machine
[19:22] <niemeyer> kim0: That's why we don't just do that magically for you
[19:22] <kim0> niemeyer: got it .. so no technical reason not to background, but a security one
[19:22] <niemeyer> kim0: It's neat and all, but be aware :)
[19:22] <kim0> hehe yeah :)
[19:22] <kim0> ok I'd love to have this working
[19:23] <niemeyer> kim0: It should be working.. trying right now
[19:24] <niemeyer> With tunnel:
[19:24] <niemeyer> bin/ensemble status  0.29s user 0.08s system 8% cpu 4.309 total
[19:24] <niemeyer> Without tunnel:
[19:24] <niemeyer> bin/ensemble status  0.34s user 0.05s system 5% cpu 7.033 total
[19:24] <niemeyer> kim0: Seems to work
[19:24] <niemeyer> kim0: If you want to be sure:
[19:24] <kim0> 0.3s! something must be wrong on my box (it's 5s)
[19:24] <niemeyer> kim0: 1) Open the tunnel
[19:25] <kim0> it's open
[19:25] <niemeyer> kim0: On another terminal, run this:
[19:25] <niemeyer> kim0: ensemble ssh 0
[19:25] <niemeyer> kim0: Then, close the tunnel with CTRL-C
[19:25] <niemeyer> kim0: What happened to your ssh?
[19:26] <niemeyer> kim0: You were looking at the wrong number.. it's 4.3s
[19:26] <kim0> niemeyer: it was terminated
[19:26] <niemeyer> kim0: Bingo
[19:26] <niemeyer> kim0: It was going through the tunnel
[19:27] <kim0> ah yeah .. You'd think the tunnel would make it even faster
[19:28] <niemeyer> kim0: That's the penalty of living at thousands of km from the DC
[19:28] <kim0> is it bandwidth limited
[19:29] <niemeyer> kim0: Latency
[19:31] <niemeyer> Okay!
[19:31] <niemeyer> m1.small works..
[19:31] <niemeyer> hazmat++
[19:34] <_mup_> Bug #792491 was filed: t1.micro is too sluggish <Ensemble:In Progress by niemeyer> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/792491 >
[19:35] <niemeyer> In review
[19:35] <niemeyer> kim0: I'll look at the problem of the default directory now
[19:36] <niemeyer> Actually.. standup..
[19:36] <niemeyer> Who's up for it?
[19:36] <niemeyer> hazmat, jimbaker, bcsaller: Yo?
[19:36] <hazmat> i'm game if need be.. almost done with session work
[19:37] <bcsaller> almost done addressing review
[19:37]  * hazmat parks in mumble
[19:38] <jimbaker> niemeyer, sounds good to me
[19:39] <niemeyer> jimbaker: We're all there
[19:39] <jimbaker> yeah, my laptop just needed to reboot... unity issues ;)
[19:39] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Heh, sure, blame unity :)
[19:39] <jimbaker> which features a need for daily reboots it seems, otherwise everything else is great
[19:40] <jimbaker> fortunately i know about alt-f1
[19:40] <jimbaker> so fewer reboots required
[19:40] <hallyn> SpamapS: lp:~serge-hallyn/principia/oneiric/jenkins works for me
[19:40] <hallyn> (jenkins/trunc, that is)
[19:40] <SpamapS> right
[19:41] <hallyn> still have some jenkins usage to learn to figure out how to use this to test kernel compiles
[19:41] <jimbaker> well it looks no sound for me
[19:41] <SpamapS> hallyn: for new formulas, I'm going to put together a "how to propose a new formula" document at some point. Right now I think you can just bug me.. eventually we'll need a "NEW" queue like thing.
[19:41] <hallyn> if it was all one bzr tree we could do merge requests...
[19:43] <hazmat> jimbaker, unity again
[19:44] <jimbaker> just one more reboot, now i have sound!
[19:54] <niemeyer> https://code.launchpad.net/~jimbaker/ensemble/expose-watch-exposed-flag/+merge/63066
[19:55] <SpamapS> http://fewbar.com/2011/06/so-what-is-ensemble-anyway/
[19:57] <hazmat> SpamapS, woot!
[19:59] <SpamapS> graph porn at the bottom. ;)
[19:59] <bcsaller> SpamapS: now I'm extra sorry status didn't draw properly for you
[20:02] <niemeyer> SpamapS: WOAH
[20:03] <SpamapS> bcsaller: I can always add it back in. ;)
[20:03] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Have you tweeted it yet?
[20:03] <SpamapS> niemeyer: my blog auto-tweets. :)
[20:03] <niemeyer> SpamapS: What your username there?
[20:03] <SpamapS> niemeyer: guess! ;) spamaps
[20:04] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Cool :)
[20:45] <koolhead17> SpamapS: is it your blogpage :D
[20:45]  * koolhead17 just did niemeyer RT :P
[20:47] <niemeyer> koolhead17: It is indeed
[20:47] <niemeyer> An awesome intro
[20:47]  * koolhead17 reading it
[20:53] <_mup_> Bug #792540 was filed: example mysql formula should publish details of precreated databases <Ensemble:New for kim0> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/792540 >
[20:55] <koolhead17> kim0: that website bug has been confirmed and assigned!! :D
[20:55] <kim0> koolhead17: Yeah it's important ! thanks :)
[20:56] <koolhead17> kim0: karma ++ :D
[20:56] <kim0> haha :) enjot
[20:56] <kim0> enjoy*
[20:57] <koolhead17> http://www.youtube.com/canonicalmatters  it needs to be populated :F
[20:57] <koolhead17> :D
[21:01] <kim0> Just fixed the mysql example formula to make it publish DB details of precreated formulas .. yaay
[21:01] <kim0> precreated DBs I mean .. yaay :)
[21:09] <robbiew> SpamapS: so when can we get the narrated screencast version?
[21:09] <robbiew> :P
[21:15] <SpamapS> kim0: how did you manage that, given that the password is encrypted?
[21:16] <kim0> SpamapS: caught it as it's being created and saved it in file like how the master password is?
[21:16] <SpamapS> kim0: ah, I went through great pains to avoid that in principia. ;)
[21:16] <SpamapS> kim0: but I'm not really sure why. ;)
[21:16] <kim0> hehe :)
[21:17] <kim0> I'm using those example formulas in tutorials .. so I value simplicity above all
[21:20] <SpamapS> The reality is you shouldn't ever have to re-use those users. You just have to keep track of two things. 1) does the db exist yet or not, and 2) has the relationship been completely severed or not.
[21:21] <SpamapS> as long as there is a relationship, the username/db doesn't have to change
[22:40] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-watch-exposed-flag r241 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:40] <_mup_> Removed unnecessary guard and separated out ports tests from ServiceStateManagerTest megatest
[22:47] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-watch-exposed-flag r242 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:47] <_mup_> PEP8
[22:49] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provision-service-hierarchy r264 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:49] <_mup_> Merged upstread expose-watch-exposed-flag
[22:50] <kim0> SpamapS: I've written a drupal formula at https://code.launchpad.net/~kim0/+junk/drupal .. Mind importing to principia ?
[22:52] <SpamapS> kim0: reading now
[22:52] <kim0> cool
[22:52] <SpamapS> kim0: we had another guy submit one recently too.. ;)
[22:52] <kim0> it's pretty basic :)
[22:52] <kim0> oh np though :)
[22:54] <SpamapS> kim0: I love how all formulas start with at least 5 - 10 revisions. :-p
[22:54] <kim0> hahah :D
[22:54] <kim0> even as basic as this one
[22:54] <SpamapS> The other one had a good idea.. his was<PHONE_NUMBER>00
[22:54] <kim0> a ha .. yeah like DNS zone versions
[22:54] <SpamapS> Ok first off, descriptions shouldn't say what it "does", they should say what it "is".
[22:55] <kim0> It's a blant copy from the wordpress example .. so we probably should change both of em
[22:55] <SpamapS> Yeah
[22:56] <SpamapS> Been thinking about writing up a basic set of guidelines and sending it out for comment
[22:56] <SpamapS> drush?
[22:57] <kim0> drupal shell
[22:57] <kim0> nice little tool that automates lots of things
[22:57] <SpamapS> kim0: right.. I'm not sure we're going to accept stuff in Principia that pulls things from archives other than Ubuntu...
[22:58] <kim0> it doesnt ?
[22:58] <kim0> drush is packaged
[22:58] <SpamapS> ensemble-log "Using drush to download latest Drupal"
[22:58] <SpamapS> 10
[22:58] <SpamapS> cd /var/www && drush dl drupal --drupal-project-rename=ensemble
[22:58] <kim0> ah ..
[22:58] <kim0> hmm
[22:58] <SpamapS> The reason being, then we lose the security updates of the Ubuntu release.
[22:59] <SpamapS> Everything else looks fine for importing.
[22:59] <kim0> althogh I'd argue a deployed ensemble, won't upgrade itself yet :)
[22:59] <SpamapS> The drush stuff is *awesome* though.
[23:00] <kim0> It can auto-update core drupal
[23:00] <kim0> and all modules/plugins/themes ..etc
[23:00] <SpamapS> kim0: one can at least ssh to it and upgrade, but yeah, this goes back to being able to enforce policy across the machines.
[23:00] <kim0> if ensemble would give me a hook to check/apply updates
[23:00] <kim0> it would probably be better than apt :)
[23:00] <SpamapS> we don't need a hook for that
[23:00] <SpamapS> install a cron job
[23:01] <SpamapS> But then you get into, why not just enable unattended upgrades
[23:02] <kim0> ok I'll probably tweak it later for apt ..
[23:05] <SpamapS> We need to discuss this though
[23:05] <kim0> Yeah ..
[23:06] <SpamapS> I don't feel adamantly opposed to having formulas that deploy software outside Ubuntu's archives in Principia.. but I do think we need to think about it.
[23:06] <kim0> agreed
[23:06] <kim0> maybe start a thread
[23:07] <kim0> SpamapS: if I were to deploy a drupal cluster, I'd need a shared filesystem across all nodes ... what's your take on implementing this in ensemble ? an NFS formula ?
[23:07] <kim0> what about gluster on the same nodes
[23:07] <SpamapS> I want to do it with several options
[23:07] <SpamapS> gluster and NFS would be the simplest/safest
[23:07] <SpamapS> NFS would need to be failover/drbd or something like that.
[23:08] <SpamapS> gluster w/ a peer formula would be *pimp*
[23:08] <kim0> I suppose that's good :)
[23:08] <SpamapS> wordpress and mediawiki have the same needs
[23:08] <SpamapS> Tho.. I'd bet all 3 have S3 plugins
[23:08] <SpamapS> actually I *know* wordpress does because I use it
[23:09] <kim0> yeah, having one formula per instance sounds a bit limiting ? wish I could group more than one formula on a single instance
[23:09] <SpamapS> i totally agree
[23:09] <SpamapS> like as long as neither of them provide the same interface, it should be no problem
[23:09] <kim0> yeah
[23:10] <kim0> and while we're at it .. I think we'd need a documented "interface" for a formula
[23:10] <kim0> for example to write that drupal formula .. I had to read the mysql formula source, which doesn't sound scalable
[23:11] <kim0> basically documenting the wire protocol .. nothing more
[23:11] <SpamapS> Agreed, I think the providing formula should always document it. It would be great if ensemble even enforced/warned when something didn't follow the documented semantics.
[23:11]  * kim0 nods
[23:13] <SpamapS> http://pastebin.com/TqwWjgEB
[23:14] <kim0> will we need "gets" as well
[23:14] <SpamapS> http://pastebin.com/KaBHLnX9
[23:14] <kim0> and will we need "when" .. which hook .. does that make a difference
[23:14] <SpamapS> Yeah... s/expects/gets/
[23:15] <SpamapS> Maybe
[23:15] <kim0> good start though
[23:16] <kim0> It will need a description .. like memcached gets/sets "ip" which is totally different afaict
[23:18] <kim0> I was also thinking about the need to have "joined" when we have "changed" .. knowing that changed always fires after joined, and pretty much always has to detect whehter or not this is its first run!
[23:18] <SpamapS> hmm
[23:19] <SpamapS> I tend to find it easy.. if relation-get has values, configure things. If not, don't.
[23:19] <kim0> Yeah
[23:19] <SpamapS> then joined can just create data/etc. if need be
[23:20] <SpamapS> and departed/broken can clean up
[23:20] <SpamapS> though broken needs something to tell us which relation broke.
[23:21] <kim0> I feel like everything is still possible without joined
[23:21] <kim0> will think about it a bit more
[23:22] <SpamapS> well the idea is that joined *only* gets called when a new member arrives
[23:23] <kim0> changed, would still be called, so it'd need to do the right thing as well
[23:24] <kim0> any way .. it's past midnight for me .. nightie everyone
[23:25] <kim0> enjoy your weekend
[23:25] <SpamapS> kim0: will do, thanks for the formula work/ideas/everything :)
[23:26] <kim0> SpamapS: thanks man :)


[16:28] <saladim> cant get mini-buildd running. when preparing repository it says: SoSe call failed: No distribution definitions found in /var/lib/mini-buildd/repositories/test/conf/distributions!


[20:19] <xangua> slyrobot: you know, you can just open the telegram web client in any browser or use the telegram desktop app
[20:19] <j4g0> glachas, to change shell see https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-change-linux-unix-freebsd-login-shell/ for example
[20:20] <j4g0> konrados, did you try to kill it via kill command or (indirectly) via htop?
[20:20] <slyrobot> Yes. But i want to use Instant Messaging.
[20:22] <xangua> slyrobot: I imagine the plugin you want to use is a libpurple plugin, so you may wanna check pidgin site or the channel #pidgin
[20:22] <Erick3k> hi
[20:22] <j4g0> ho
[20:23] <glachas> Eric, j4g0: Its saying 'you may not change the shell <username>'
[20:23] <Erick3k> i am changing the disk size and when the machine is turned on gets stuck here https://i.imgur.com/tWkFmqX.png
[20:24] <Erick3k> its a cloud image
[20:24] <Erick3k> can someone help?
[20:26] <xangua> slyrobot: I'm reading Morse is a telepathy connector, but it specifically mentioned being a qt telepathy connector.. So maybe doesn't work with empathy? Are you using KDE?
[20:26] <arpit1294> hi
[20:26] <j4g0> glachas, did you try to change the shell of a different user than the one you used to shh ?
[20:27] <EriC^^> glachas: what's the currently set shell? try "getent passwd <user>" and look at the last column
[20:30] <Erick3k> can someone help me, ubuntu getting stuck at boot after resizing disk
[20:30] <glachas> j4g0: Actually, I have admin access to that system to which I am remotely accessing. And yes I tried changing the shell.
[20:30] <glachas> Eric^^: Currently, -sh
[20:31] <j4g0> an bash is available on the system? "less /etc/shells"
[20:31] <j4g0> *and
[20:32] <glachas> Eric^^: The last column is giving me the path of the current directory(I think) "home/<username>".
[20:32] <glachas> j4g0: Yes
[20:33] <EriC^^> glachas: aha the user doesn't have a set shell then
[20:33] <EriC^^> glachas: is the user disabled or something?
[20:34] <glachas> Eric^^: How to check that?
[20:34] <glachas> :(
[20:35] <EriC^^> glachas: try "passwd -S <user>"
[20:35] <EriC^^> look at the end field
[20:35] <EriC^^> *2nd
[20:37] <glachas> Eric^^: After username ? It is 'P'
[20:37] <EriC^^> glachas: that means it's good
[20:37] <EriC^^> glachas: try "sudo chsh <user>" and see if it'll let you set it
[20:38] <EriC^^> glachas: when it asks for login shell type "/bin/bash"
[20:39] <glachas> Eric^^: Did.
[20:39] <EriC^^> glachas: ok try to logout and back in and it should work
[20:41] <glachas> Eric^^: It again showing '-sh' when typed "echo $0"
[20:41] <glachas> :(
[20:41] <EriC^^> getent passwd <user> shows /bin/bash at the end?
[20:42] <s7rawman> I'm getting an error when running sudo apt update. The specific error is Subprocess .../dpkg returned an error code 1
[20:42] <s7rawman> any pointers?
[20:42] <EriC^^> s7rawman: paste the error info before that in a pastebin
[20:42] <k1l_> s7rawman: that is not the full output. so no, there are no pointers with only that line.
[20:42] <glachas> Eric^^: It is showing username.
[20:43] <konrados> I'm really sorry for the stupid mistake I made, when I do the ``ps aux  | grep nano`` it shows me... the "grep" command - and I was sure it's a nano process running. But...
[20:43] <s7rawman> would you want the sudo dpkg --configure a output? or just the sudo apt update ouput?
[20:43] <EriC^^> glachas: try "sudo chsh -s /bin/bash <user>"
[20:43] <konrados> But I still don't know why I get "file /tmp/test is being edited (by konrad with nano 2.5.3, PID 809); continue"
[20:44] <k1l_> s7rawman: run sudo apt update and put all the output to paste.ubuntu.com
[20:46] <konrados> Anybody? Or should I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2F1rFmyQmY ?
[20:47] <k1l_> konrados: there might be some lock file left or such.
[20:47] <s7rawman> paste link here http://paste.ubuntu.com/24302321/
[20:47] <konrados> k1l_, - like... where?
[20:47] <konrados> How can I know this?
[20:47] <k1l_> look at the folder where the file is located
[20:48] <konrados> Yes I did that k1l_ - nothing.
[20:48] <k1l_> s7rawman: gzip: stdout: No space left on device
[20:48] <s7rawman> how do I find which specific drive that is?
[20:48] <k1l_> s7rawman: "df -h"
[20:49] <zeroeax> Is there a limit to how much swap space I can have if I used LVM?
[20:49] <glachas> Eric^^: Now it is working fine. It get changed to /bin/bash. The problem was that I am not updating the database.
[20:50] <zeroeax> like, if I'm compiling something really massive and it ends up using 10gb of swap, will LVM adjust things so it has that much to use?
[20:50] <s7rawman> it appears /boot is full?
[20:50] <glachas> Eric^^: j4g0: Thanx :)
[20:50] <k1l_> s7rawman: i dont know, i cant see what you see
[20:50] <j4g0> glachas: you're welcome :)
[20:50] <EriC^^> glachas: no problem
[20:51] <zeroeax> I doubt anything is going to use that much RAM, but right now it only has 2gb of swap and I only have 4gb of ram, and I'm compiling something very big with a very ram expensive version of gcc tailored to the architecture I'm compiling for
[20:51] <willytell> s7rawman: run "df -h" and paste the output in paste.ubuntu.com
[20:52] <zeroeax> so going over 6gb of ram total usage might happen, will LVM adjust to add more swap?
[20:52] <zeroeax> or can I force LVM to allocate more swap?
[20:53] <s7rawman> willytell: how do I just pipe it to paste.ubuntu.com?
[20:53] <EriC^^> s7rawman: command | pastebinit
[20:53] <k1l_> s7rawman: df- h | nc termbin.com 9999
[20:53] <rhombus> I have an external repository added to my system, but synaptic does not see packages in that repository. Why not?
[20:54] <k1l_> rhombus: run "sudo apt update"
[20:54] <s7rawman> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24302364/
[20:54] <rhombus> k1l_: what does that do?
[20:54] <Delvien> rhombus: sudo apt-get update
[20:55] <k1l_> rhombus: it reads the sources.list and looks at the servers for an recent packages list
[20:55] <OerHeks> rhombus, care to share what repo, and on what ubuntu?
[20:56] <k1l_> s7rawman: remove some of the not used kernel images packages manually with "sudo dpkg -r package1 package2...."
[20:56] <rhombus> OerHeks: It's the xbmc repo
[20:56] <s7rawman> k1l_: alright. thank you
[20:56] <rhombus> k1l_: I've already done "sudo apt update" numerous times, it has had no effect
[20:56] <rhombus> OerHeks: It's like it is totally ignoring the packages in it
[20:56] <k1l_> rhombus: did it show any errors then?
[20:57] <technochips> need help, when i try to record audio, it shows a very loud static noise
[20:57] <technochips> using my laptop microphone
[20:58] <technochips> tried to google it, but couldn't fix it
[20:58] <technochips> mic boost in alsamixer doesn't do anything
[20:58] <k1l_> technochips: some laptops have bad wires. try to unplug the energy cable
[20:58] <rhombus> k1l_: it does complain with "Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11:resource temporarily unavailable)" and "Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg), is another process using it?"
[20:59] <rhombus> k1l_: probably because I have synaptic running
[20:59] <k1l_> rhombus: yes
[20:59] <technochips> also: i made a dual boot, on windows it works well, no static noise
[20:59] <Delvien> k1l_:  The energy cable.
[21:00] <rhombus> ok, so... I've done sudo apt update and it has made no difference
[21:00] <rhombus> but I have checked the repo via its http page and there are packages in there that are not showing up in apt
[21:00] <k1l_> rhombus: please put the output to a pastebin.
[21:01] <Kiicki> It seems like I have a v-sync issue with the driver "fglrx-updates" Where if V-sync is ON in the Catalyst I will get 30fps in Minecraft. Changing V-sync ON/OFF in the game itself won't matter if the V-sync is on in Catalyst. If I turn V-sync OFF in Catalyst, then I will get screen tear watching Youtube so I kinda need to have it on for that to work. Anyways,
[21:01] <Kiicki> when V-sync is OFF in Catalyst and it's OFF in Minecraft, I get 60 FPS. I turn ON V-sync in Minecraft, I'm back at 30FPS. It's like V-sync is set to 30fps or something even though I use a 60hz monitor. I use Minecraft as a test kinda thing as it's fast to install
[21:01] <Kiicki> Hope that made any sense
[21:01] <Delvien> Kiicki: check your refresh rate on your video output with xrandr
[21:01] <rhombus> k1l_: which output?
[21:02] <k1l_> rhombus: "sudo apt update"
[21:02] <rhombus> k1l_: hang on, it's on another machine
[21:02] <Kiicki> Delvien thanks but how do I do that? If it's more complicated than I will look into it
[21:05] <willytell> s7rawman, old kernel images packages can be removed from gui or command line, anyway, don't remove your latest kernel image. See the different versions of each kernel image package.
[21:06] <zeroeax> guys, will LVM adjust my swap size if I need more swap?
[21:06] <zeroeax> or do I need to manually tell it to use more swap?
[21:06] <rhombus> k1l_: ok, that was a good hint -- it appears the repo in question is not in the sudo apt-get update output.
[21:06] <s7rawman> willytell k1l_ thank you. I'm getting them removed now. thank you
[21:06] <k1l_> rhombus: so what did you add where?
[21:06] <rhombus> k1l_: but when I open synaptic package manager and look in settings and other repositories, it's listed there and is checked off
[21:07] <k1l_> rhombus: would actually help to see the facts :/
[21:07] <rhombus> k1l_: you want to see the output?
[21:07] <Delvien> Kiicki: just type in xrandr, into a term, and it will show you the refresh rate
[21:07] <rhombus> I can give you the pastebin link
[21:08] <k1l_> rhombus: yes
[21:08] <Delvien> Kiicki:  for example, mine says:  1600x900      60.00*+ (on my laptop atm)
[21:08] <rhombus> k1l_: I followed the instructions listed here: http://kodi.wiki/view/HOW-TO:Install_Kodi_for_Linux
[21:08] <rhombus> k1l_: under item 1
[21:09] <rhombus> k1l_: here's the pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/3790727
[21:10] <wellick> greetings, trying linux for the first time. I have 2 hard disks, one with ubuntu and the other for storage. I can't seem to be able to find my 2nd disk though...
[21:10] <FAKECLOUDS> good day
[21:11] <technochips> wellick: does it shows in the disks application?
[21:11] <Kiicki> Delvien Thanks, I kinda lied and I'm on Mint atm. I'm just trying different stuff and the command did work but I get a lot of different things here
[21:11] <k1l_> rhombus:  "grep ^ /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* |nc termbin.com 9999"
[21:11] <Bashing-om> wellick: Pastebin the output of terminal command ' sudo parted -l ' . We see then what the system sees .
[21:11] <Delvien> Kiicki: mint is basically ubuntu, pastebin your output of xrandr
[21:11] <rhombus> k1l_: so, for some strange reason, it's not being updated here, but yet it's in /etc/apt/sources.list.d
[21:12] <zeroeax> Ok since no one answered I just did a test where I filled my ram with garbage using a looping memory leak in a 20 line C program... LVM will NOT adjust your swap space if you need more
[21:12] <k1l_> Kiicki: Delvien mint is not supported here since they change stuff. so ask their support
[21:12] <zeroeax> now I need to read the LVM manuals to figure out how to add more
[21:12] <k1l_> !mint | Kiicki
[21:12] <Delvien> k1l_ I'll support whatever I want to support mind yur beeswax
[21:13] <k1l_> !guidelines | Delvien
[21:13] <Kiicki> https://paste.ubuntu.com/24302476/
[21:13] <Delvien> Kiicki: still, pastebin your output
[21:13] <k1l_> Delvien: you can support what you want but not in #ubuntu
[21:13] <Kiicki> Delvien I was on it. Had to log in to IRC
[21:13] <Delvien> Kiicki: its running at 60 hz, so maybe its a minecraft problem?
[21:13] <Kiicki> k1l_ I know but the issue is the same
[21:13] <Kiicki> Delvien maybe
[21:14] <Kiicki> but even with v-sync off there, if I enable v-sync in catalyst, same 30fps issue Delvien
[21:14] <k1l_> Kiicki: doesnt matter. ask them. they have own support channels and forums. please keep this channel to the ubuntu users. thanks
[21:14] <Delvien> Kiicki:  you said you had nvidia right? Turn off adaptive vsync
[21:14] <thatlizdude> hi, what USB format is supported on Ubuntu?
[21:14] <Kiicki> No, got AMD HD 5450. Using the fgrlx-updates driver Delvien
[21:14] <Ben64> thatlizdude: not sure what you mean by usb format
[21:14] <k1l_> thatlizdude: you mean for data usb pendrive?
[21:15] <Delvien> thatlizdude: everything if you have the right FS "libs"
[21:15] <rhombus> k1l_: termbin.com/21qs
[21:15] <wellick> Bashing-om: https://pastebin.com/HEVhNQ4n
[21:15] <thatlizdude> Like NTFS, FAT
[21:15] <thatlizdude> i have mine ExFAT I think and it can't be read
[21:15] <Ben64> thatlizdude: pretty much everything
[21:15] <k1l_> rhombus: so what package do you want to install?
[21:16] <Delvien> Kiicki: one post said "dont use vsync. and use fast math instead in the performance settings" dont know what that means, but hopefully it helps
[21:16] <Ben64> thatlizdude: you'll want to install exfat-fuse and exfat-utils
[21:16] <thatlizdude> ok thanks
[21:16] <rhombus> kodi, from the xbmc repo
[21:16] <rhombus> k1l_: kodi, from the xbmc repo
[21:17] <geirha> what does   apt-cache policy kodi   output?
[21:17] <Bashing-om> wellick: Your drive is seen , 1sr drive of 640GB has ubuntu, and the 2nd 1000GB is stirage with a Windows file system, NTFS , How are you trying to access the 2nd drive ?
[21:18] <k1l_> rhombus: "apt-cache policy kodi | nc termbin.com 9999"
[21:18] <wellick> ther 2nd drive is an external drive I have connected. But I also have a 2nd internal drive.
[21:18] <wellick> I know it's there and working, I've been using it with windows 7.
[21:19] <rhombus> k1l_: termbin.com/rstu
[21:19] <k1l_> rhombus: sudo apt-get install kodi
[21:19] <wellick> when I click files it should appear somewhere around "Computer", I suppose...
[21:20] <rhombus> k1l_: then it installs the the wrong package -- 2:14.2~git20150327.1058-final-0precise
[21:20] <rhombus> k1l_: which is not what I want
[21:20] <rhombus> k1l_: the repo contains 2:17.1
[21:20] <k1l_> rhombus: but that is what the ppa contains
[21:21] <Bashing-om> wellick: What Windows calls a drive is actually a partition , That 1st drive only has ubuntu on it .
[21:21] <rhombus> k1l_: the ppa contains this: https://launchpad.net/~team-xbmc/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
[21:21] <k1l_> rhombus: you run ubutnu 12.04 (which is from 2012 and looses support in few days).
[21:21] <k1l_> rhombus: so you need to look what packages are for precise in that ppa. not the latest one you find.
[21:22] <wellick> bashing-om: interesting thing is, I don't remember my primary drive having so many gigas. is it possible that ubuntu is considering those 640 gb as the sum of the two disks?
[21:22] <rhombus> k1l_: ah -- so it is distro version dependent
[21:22] <rhombus> k1l_: sorry, I am a Gentoo user, we don't have "distro versions" :)
[21:22] <k1l_> rhombus: use the "published in " dropdown, to let it show you the 12.04 pacakges
[21:22] <rhombus> k1l_: ah, ok
[21:22] <k1l_> rhombus: yes, you have the nearly dead release
[21:22] <rhombus> k1l_: now I get it
[21:23] <wellick> Bashing-om: a btw, I just installed ubuntu and erased windows 10. that drive was deleted but the contents of the 2nd drive, should be there, right?
[21:23] <rhombus> k1l_: I guess "Long-Term Support" doesn't mean "Forever Support"
[21:23] <Bashing-om> wellick: When ya look at the numbers . all that is on that drive is linux . - but ' sudo fdisk -lu ' will relate better to the numbers .
[21:23] <k1l_> rhombus: no, it means 5 years support. instead of 9 months for the non-lts
[21:23] <Delvien> wellick: yes
[21:24] <Bashing-om> wellick: IF there were 2 physical hard drives in the machine then yes - that other drive should not have been touched . When you boot up, does bios show 3 drives presently ?
[21:25] <rhombus> k1l_: ok, thank you for your help, I learned a few new things
[21:25] <Ben64> rhombus: now time to upgrade to at least 14.04
[21:25] <wellick> Bashing-om: haven't booted yet
[21:25] <rhombus> Ben64: I'm going to do that
[21:26] <sweatsuit> navigate
[21:26] <sweatsuit> exit
[21:26] <Bashing-om> wellick: My concern here is that you have replaced Windows with ubuntu on that 1st drive .
[21:27] <wellick> 1st or 2nd? you mean my drive that didn't have windows?
[21:27] <wellick> I had most things backed up so it's not catastrophic.
[21:28] <Bashing-om> wellick: On that 2nd drive is a single partition .. do not think that could possibly be the Windows Operating System .
[21:30] <wellick> Bashing-om: I ejected my external drive and typed that command again: https://pastebin.com/yVScvbdT
[21:31] <technochips> need help, when i try to record audio using my laptop microphone, it shows a very loud static noise. it did this since i installed ubuntu, twice. it got a dual boot and on windows the microphone works perfectly. tried to low the mic boost on alsamixer, it just made the static noise less loud.
[21:32] <arpit1294>      fuck
[21:33] <Bashing-om> wellick: Uh Huh, and only the single internal drive is now seen, This drive "Disk /dev/sda: 640GB" only contains a linux file system ( sda == Serial Device 1 - where a is 1 ) partitions are as sda1 sda2 sda5.
[21:35] <wellick> Bashing-om: it seems this problem I'm having is not uncommon. let me try some google fu.
[21:36] <Bashing-om> wellick: We remian here to help guide and assist .
[21:36] <wellick> of course. thank you.
[21:38] <Bashing-om> wellick: Gint, If bios does not see a 2nd hard drive . the system will not either . very likley a 2nd physical drive does not exist .
[21:38] <Bashing-om> Hint*
[21:40] <wellick> I«m pretty sure it's there. I was just moving files there 30 minutes ago. Only thing that changed was I intalled ubuntu and deleted windows 10
[21:41] <Bashing-om> wellick: " erase disk and install ubuntu" does just that . no more Windows with that install option .
[21:42] <wellick> yep. i'm fine with no windows for the moment.
[22:03] <Erick3k> any idea why ubuntu getting stuck at https://i.imgur.com/7flnrI9.png
[22:05] <zeroeax> I'm no expert, but based on the limited about of debugging output we have, it looks like one of your drives in a 3 drive 2 unique and one backup, failed, and it's trying to use the backup drives XOR results combined with the working drive to reverse the XOR and recreate the failed drives data
[22:06] <zeroeax> this is just a guess, and requires more information to verify or disprove, we need more than that screen shot
[22:07] <zeroeax> Can you get us full logs of the boot sequence, and maybe run SMART scans and filesystem checks on the drives if the logs don't point to something else?
[22:07] <zeroeax> Like I said, I'm no expert
[22:08] <zeroeax> I'm just an armature kenrel and hardware hacker with no experience running RAID on linux, but that's what those errors make me guess is the problem
[22:09] <Erick3k> hehe thanks
[22:09] <Erick3k> well is really complicated and am not sure whats going on
[22:09] <Erick3k> i create a vm from template, works
[22:09] <OerHeks> Erick3k, you might want to repost in #ubuntu-server too
[22:10] <Erick3k> turn of that vm, create a template from it, machine don't work
[22:10] <Erick3k> ok
[22:11] <zeroeax> It looks like it started doing something related to a raid error and is just continuing doing that without any progress output, but that screen shot isn't enough for me to try and verify that guess
[22:22] <adrian_1908> I have a question about "snaps". Can I create these as downloadable packages like Debian archives, or do they have to be registered with a central databased?
[22:22] <adrian_1908> *database
[22:26] <OerHeks> adrian_1908, you can build and publish on ubuntu store or git https://snapcraft.io/docs/build-snaps/publish
[22:27] <adrian_1908> thanks!
[22:29] <brother_Brewer> Newbie question. Has anyone else been having trouble getting their ethernet connection to open? I've checked cords on both ends, rebooted the router and the laptop with no success.
[22:30] <OerHeks> brother_Brewer, seen that only with windows10 + fastboot enabled, that prevented the use of networking & usb
[22:31] <OerHeks> else see if the device has a driver in use, 'ifconfig' would tell
[22:33] <JuPaname> sorry :x
[22:34] <DarkByD3sign> Evening all, anyone around to ask a security question.
[22:37] <Menzador> !ask | DarkByD3sign
[22:39] <DarkByD3sign> I've created a VPS from a well known cloud service. I've created my ssh key in putty gen and added it to the details on the cloud service so I can log in. Do I need to edit anything on the server side like in /etc/ssh/sshd_config?
[22:41] <Menzador> DarkByD3sign: I found a tutorial that might help: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-ssh-tunneling-on-a-vps
[22:42] <AssociateX> I have been trying to figure out why my laptop runs so slow. Programs are slow to start and close, everything is very laggy. Any help on where to start looking would be great.
[22:42] <DarkByD3sign> AssociateX, thank you, i'll check it out.
[22:43] <AssociateX> DarkByD3sign, you tagged the wrong person in your last comment.
[22:44] <DarkByD3sign> Ahaha oops.
[22:44] <DarkByD3sign> Menzador, thank you, i'll check it out.
[22:47] <Menzador> AssociateX: Run [ inxi -F | curl -F https://ptpb.pw?u=1 ] and paste the link
[22:47] <Menzador> err, not that
[22:47] <Menzador> AssociateX: Run [ inxi -F | curl -F c=@- https://ptpb.pw?u=1 ] and paste the link
[22:47] <pheurton> .mode
[22:47] <cmecca_> hey all -- i'm finding that `apt-config dump` is not reflecting the settings im changing in the /etc/apt/apt.conf.d files.  is there a way to 'refresh the running config' without a reboot; (some settings arent even reflected after a reboot actually) [14.04lts]
[22:48] <FXpro> how do you iinstall drivers via .sh script?
[22:48] <AssociateX> Menzador, I will have to install inxi, bbs.
[22:48] <Menzador> AssociateX: You're also going to need curl
[22:49] <AssociateX> Menzador, installing that also.
[22:50] <OerHeks> http://askubuntu.com/questions/38661/how-do-i-run-sh-files
[22:51] <OerHeks> but installing drivers with a sh script are usuall untrusted. on ubuntu, that is.
[22:52] <AssociateX> Menzador, https://ptpb.pw/HX3q
[22:52] <cmecca_> - or is there a way to forcefully change the running configuration of apt
[22:54] <OerHeks> cmecca_, sudo apt update would
[22:55] <FXpro> the thing says "network service discovery disabled"
[22:55] <Menzador> AssociateX: Are you using any proprietary drivers?
[22:55] <cmecca_> OerHeks: cool ill try that - thanks
[22:55] <AssociateX> Menzador, this might be a little easier to read: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24303178/
[22:55] <Menzador> Haha, yes that would
[22:55] <AssociateX> Menzador, for my HP printer I am for sure, I would have to look for anything else.
[22:56] <Menzador> AssociateX: Well, hplip is almost a necessity for HP printers
[22:56] <FXpro> "your current  network has a .local domain, which is not recommended and incompatible with the avahi network service discovery.  the service has been disabled"
[22:57] <AssociateX> Menzador, I agree
[22:58] <Menzador> AssociateX: Can you look at top and see what processes have negative levels of nice?
[22:58] <Menzador> (i.e., run [ top ]
[22:58] <Menzador> )
[22:59] <AssociateX> I have top running, let me look. While you're waiting check this out https://paste.ubuntu.com/24303197/
[23:00] <AssociateX> Menzador, there are a lot that are at -20, a few called kworker
[23:01] <AssociateX> Menzador, *kworker/0:0H
[23:02] <Menzador> AssociateX: Are you running KDE?
[23:02] <AssociateX> Menzador, yes
[23:02] <AssociateX> but I can run blackbox or flux if you would rather me.
[23:03] <Menzador> AssociateX: Start a Fluxbox session for me.
[23:03] <AssociateX> OK, bbs
[23:10] <AssociateX> I'm back.
[23:10] <AssociateX> Menzador, I'm back.
[23:12] <Menzador> AssociateX: Sorry I had to step away
[23:12] <Menzador> OK
[23:12] <Menzador> Now check top again
[23:12] <Menzador> AssociateX: ^
[23:12] <AssociateX> Menzador, kworker/0:0H kworker/1:0H and so on are all -20
[23:13] <Menzador> Hmmm.
[23:13] <AssociateX> Menzador, I don't need KDE in my life, I just like a lot of their apps.
[23:14] <Menzador> AssociateX: All isn't lost, join #kubuntu and see if they might be able to help.
[23:15] <AssociateX> Menzador, https://paste.ubuntu.com/24303299/
[23:17] <Menzador> AssociateX: It looks like Google Chrome is what hates you
[23:17] <Menzador> Try another browser
[23:17] <AssociateX> Menzador, OK, like which one?
[23:17] <AssociateX> Menzador, or is there a way to fix that?
[23:17] <Menzador> AssociateX: At most Firefox, if not something that's basically a WebKit wrapper
[23:18] <Menzador> Well, Chrome is a giant kludge to begin with.
[23:18] <AssociateX> Menzador, well, I have opera installed already.
[23:19] <Menzador> AssociateX: Kill all instances of Chrome and see if Opera is better to you. It's Chromium-based so I can't promise anything
[23:31] <BenderRodriguez> This is driving crazy
[23:31] <BenderRodriguez> I have enabled the 8021q module and added the necessary config in /etc/network/interfaces file to enable ens3.20 interface (a vlan interface) to come up at boot time
[23:32] <BenderRodriguez> This works fine in one linux host and I can see the interface is coming up onlien just fine
[23:32] <BenderRodriguez> but on another machine, at boot up, the interface doesn't come up
[23:32] <BenderRodriguez> I have to manually run vconfig to add the vlan and restart the networking service to enable it
[23:32] <BenderRodriguez> Any ideas as to the cause?
[23:33] <snkcld> i have ubuntu installed on my laptop, and i want to install it on my usb drive. can i apt-get install the ubuntu installer program which is found on the live iso's to do this?
[23:34] <BenderRodriguez> snkcld: you can use dd to write the iso image directly onto the usb
[23:34] <BenderRodriguez> if that's what you're asking
[23:34] <BenderRodriguez> But any idea on my issue anyone? :(
[23:35] <snkcld> BenderRodriguez: yea i know, but i want to do the install like a regular install
[23:36] <Bashing-om> snkcld: "i want to install it on my usb drive" . How large is this drive ?
[23:36] <BenderRodriguez> oh
[23:36] <snkcld> BenderRodriguez: 16G
[23:36] <BenderRodriguez> just run it as a persistent live CD
[23:37] <BenderRodriguez> problem solved
[23:37] <snkcld> lol ok
[23:37] <snkcld> so... is the installer app not available to be installed, then?
[23:37] <snkcld> my question is not which method is best, but i do appreciate the extra info
[23:37] <snkcld> my question is, is that app something available in the repo, and whats its name?
[23:38] <Bashing-om> snkcld: 16 gigs will be real tight . Wont leave much to install anything else .
[23:38] <snkcld> Bashing-om: the install on my usb will only be used for maintenance on my laptop so i wont have to install anything large
[23:38] <BenderRodriguez> *shrugs*
[23:40] <snkcld> heh
[23:40] <snkcld> ill just use the debootstrap method
[23:40] <Bashing-om> snkcld: identify the USB device ' sudo fdisk -lu ' and from say a liveDVD ' wipe disk and install ubuntu"  onto the correct drive .
[23:44] <AssociateX> Menzador, do you see anything wrong here: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24303412/
[23:45] <Menzador> AssociateX: Looks OK. Is your system still sluggish?
[23:46] <AssociateX> Menzador, not that I can tell yet. Just at log in at sddm.
[23:47] <Menzador> AssociateX: You mean you didn't start Opera yet?
[23:48] <AssociateX> Menzador, no, opera is running right now with 5 tabs open.
[23:48] <Menzador> AssociateX: Oh, so only SDDM felt laggy
[23:49] <Menzador> AssociateX: Have you tried with plain ol' Chromium? [ sudo apt install chromium-browser ]
[23:49] <AssociateX> Menzador, yeah, it is for sure. I type in my password, hit enter, and it just sits for the longest time, maybe 20 seconds before there appears to be any log in activity.
[23:50] <AssociateX> Menzador, I have not used chromium for a while.
[23:50] <Menzador> AssociateX: That's typical with loading KDE though.
[23:51] <AssociateX> Menzador, even while logging into flux or bb.
[23:51] <Menzador> I have ever achieved a loading time of less than 15 seconds on a hard disk with 2 GB or more of RAM.
[23:51] <Menzador> Well, yeah, SDDM in general is like that
[23:51] <AssociateX> Not load time, but rather starting to work time. It take almost 2 minutes to boot my computer to a desktop.
[23:55] <Menzador> brb