[00:33] <isapgswell> i am thinking in another concept i called: OFUSCATED SMOKE SCREEN (new security sysinfo paradigma)
[00:35] <jjbuggle> anyone know how to connect to a samsung tv?  It has wifi, and macs have a built in method called airplay.  But my google-fu is coming up short for ubuntu
[00:35] <chibill[m]> So anyone know why pulseaudio wouldn't see my soundcard while alsa does.
[00:37] <jjbuggle> chibill[m]: you could try this to get more info: pulseaudio -k; pulseaudio -vvvvv
[00:37] <jjbuggle> at least that might work.  It might not if ubuntu auto-restarts pulsea
[00:39] <chibill[m]> Waiting on my stuff to load, launched the default DE to see if LXDE is somehow busted.
[00:51] <chibill[m]> Hm it sees the card but isn't making it available.
[00:52] <isapgswell> Qubes OS is on the right path
[00:52] <isapgswell> most isolated programs context is the right decision to QA(quality assurance) like stability, security, performance, privacy, symetric/assimetric processing and finnally scalability
[00:52] <isapgswell> i would like to add another security info concern, how to implement OFUSCATED SMOKE SCREEN in addition to a isolated vm's environment
[00:52] <isapgswell> lets think some about this new paradgima/techniqué
[00:52] <chibill[m]> At least it sees it if I run it as root, as a normal user even after killing pulseaudio with pulseaudio -k it says the daemon is running.
[00:55] <sarnold> isapgswell: you may like to read about EROS-OS and Fucshia
[00:56] <isapgswell> sarnold good idea
[01:01] <isapgswell> sarnold it is too difficult to think QUANTUM energy, performance and scalability without the QubesOS/PureOS and even Tails contribs
[01:05] <isapgswell> sarnold repeating: quantum security analisys, energy "offer", , performance and scallability
[01:05] <isapgswell> hail allan turing !!!
[01:18] <chibill[m]> After rebooting I found pulseaudio wasn't running, as my volume control could not connect to the daemon.  This is the log from trying to start the daemon. https://pastebin.com/TCMLPHMD
[01:20] <jjbuggle> chibill[m]: maybe try some of the stuff here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1056153/pulseaudio-not-working-daemon-already-running-and-no-permission-for-home-folder
[01:35] <chibill[m]> Now its not seeing the USB sound card at all in Pulseaudio.
[01:36] <chibill[m]> If I launch it with sudo it can see it but no applications can use pulseaudio.
[01:48] <kandinski> How can I know whether lightdm is using x or wayland in the first place, and configure it to ensure it uses X?
[01:51] <Bashing-om> kandinski: ' ps -efly | grep Xorg' .
[01:54] <kandinski> Bashing-om: thanks! ok, so maybe I need to run barrier with --display :0
[01:55] <kandinski> there are a bunch of lightdm processes, and it's a bit confusing
[01:55] <Bashing-om> kandinski: Can not say - no xperience with barrier.
[01:56] <kandinski> well, the ps output pointed out that lightdm was using display :0, so...
[01:56] <kandinski> (can't hurt)
[01:56] <kandinski> right? /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg -core :0 -seat seat0 -auth /var/run/lightdm/root/:0 -nolisten tcp vt7 -novtswitch
[01:57] <kandinski> in this case, barrier is launched as an accessibility optional keyboard by lightdm-gtk-greeter
[01:57] <Bashing-om> kandinski: ' echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE ' work for you ?
[01:57] <kandinski> can't do that while under lightdm
[01:57] <kandinski> the user session is X, and that's fine
[01:58] <kandinski> it's the dm/greeter that's giving me trouble, so I can log into the user session
[01:58] <kandinski> Bashing-om: does this make sense?
[01:59] <kandinski> (yes, $XDG_SESSION_TYPE is set and it works for me under my user, to answer your question)
[02:10] <Bashing-om> kandinski: Maybe ' lightdm --show-config ' will give a hint on which config file to edit ?
[02:11] <kandinski> Bashing-om: I think I have the correct one, there's a GUI even.
[02:38] <kandinski> Bashing-om: oh fudge. Snap-installed applications have sandboxed file acess permissions, so barrier from snap has issues creating files under /run
[02:38] <kandinski> GROAN
[02:39] <kandinski> (letting you know in case you'd like to have a mental alert for this kind of issues, since you've been nice enough to help me, for which I'm grateful)
[02:41] <Bashing-om> kandinski: Not been of the help level that helps :( - but pleased you know what is not happening. And yep - that ^ is but one of the reasons why I avoid snaps on the desktop.
[02:42] <kandinski> this is well, five yaks under my current need-to-do task, but at least I have some visibility
[03:03] <samian> anyone know of a UI text file comparison program that I can open by selecting to files in a file browser like dolphin and right clicking?
[03:05] <mesaboogie> samian: should be able to do that. I use a plugin for nautilus that provides the menu-item-to-compare-diff-the-files. should be a way then for dolphin. maybe a plugin/extension. *shrug*
[03:08] <toddc> samian: look at FSlint to see if it has the options you want
[03:09] <mesaboogie> surely yes, fslint is a grandpappy utility with many options. =)
[03:35] <samian> yes I use dolphin
[03:41] <mesaboogie> samian: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dolphin#Compare_files
[04:00] <isapgswell> i would like to disable multithread to access my internet digital open banking
[04:00] <isapgswell> exclusive read/write buffer to my app running
[04:00] <isapgswell> is it possible?
[04:00] <isapgswell> on ubuntu
[04:11] <isapgswell> 1 mouse click is symetric input
[04:11] <isapgswell> 2 mouse clicks is assymetric input
[04:11] <isapgswell> i want to exclude USER INPUT IRQ  EVENT from smp and thread
[04:12] <isapgswell> start/stop event needs quickly ininterrupt processing
[04:16] <isapgswell> mouse and keyboard
[04:16] <isapgswell> neutral list
[04:17] <isapgswell> skip mice/keyboard from smp and threading
[04:19] <isapgswell> processing
[05:50] <x0n^> is this a good place to discuss snapd?
[05:54] <guiverc> x0n^, this is a support room, use #ubuntu-discuss for non-support discussions, or #ubuntu-offtopic for less focused discussions
[06:37] <RupertEverton> Good morning, I'm having issues with ecryptfs private directory: I have to manually run the "ecryptfs-mount-private" command a good few times before the folder is actually mounted. Is there a way to fix it?
[07:01] <wez> RupertEverton: Are you using Ubuntu Desktop and do you have auto login enabled?
[07:02] <mgedmin> also are you using a password or something else (fingerprint) to log in?
[07:03] <RupertEverton> I'm using Ubuntu desktop and I do have auto login enabled. I dont need the private directory to automount or anything, I just need it to mount when I issue the command. But as of now, it just mounts whenever it wants after i issue the command a good few times
[07:04] <mgedmin> what do the logs say?
[07:04] <RupertEverton> where can i find them?
[07:04] <wez> RupertEverton: You probably need to unlock your keyring first, I had that issue before when enabling auto login.
[07:04] <mgedmin> journalctl
[07:07] <RupertEverton> mgedmin I'll restart and try again fresh and see what the logs say
[07:08] <wez> 👍
[07:16] <RupertEverton> Alright this time it opened on the first try, could be that i removed the inegration with pam ?
[07:18] <mgedmin> can you describe what happened?  you reboot, the desktop autologins, you open a terminal, type ecryptfs-mount-private, it works?
[07:18] <mgedmin> were there any password prompts?
[07:19] <RupertEverton> rebooted, autologged, opened the Private directory and ran the Access-Your-Private-Data.desktop script
[07:19] <RupertEverton> got prompted for my login pass as usual
[07:20] <RupertEverton> tbf it was also slow at unmounting before, while now it worked instantly
[07:20] <RupertEverton> so i think it was the integration with pam that was causing issues
[07:20] <RupertEverton> just to be clear, this is what im referring to: pam-auth-update --force
[07:21] <mgedmin> hm, unlikely
[07:21] <RupertEverton> should i reboot and give it another try? this time i'll type the command directly in terminal
[07:22] <RupertEverton> see if anything changes
[07:22] <mgedmin> no reason, it does Exec=/usr/bin/ecryptfs-mount-private
[07:23] <mgedmin> with Terminal=true
[07:23] <RupertEverton> yeah i know
[07:23] <RupertEverton> but at least with a reboot we can see if it was a one time thing or not
[07:24] <mgedmin> the PAM configuration for ecryptfs-utils does two things: (1) automount the Private directory on login, if you use a password to log in
[07:24] <mgedmin> (2) re-wrap your encryption passphrase with the new password whenever you change your login password
[07:25] <mgedmin> there's no way PAM could cause a slow unmount
[07:25] <RupertEverton> the slow unmount was really the secondary issue tho, i was mostly concerned with the slow and inconsistent mount
[07:25] <mgedmin> maybe some applications were keeping files open inside ~/Private (tracker indexer?  but isn't Private excluded from desktop indexing by default)
[07:26] <mgedmin> the slow mount is more interesting, and it would be helpful to see what's going on in journalctl if you reproduce it
[07:27] <RupertEverton> to reproduce it i need to reboot. after it's mounted the first time it's usually quite quick to remount
[07:28] <mgedmin> not that ecryptfs logs much, I see only one message on login
[07:29] <mgedmin> "gdm-password][3298]: pam_ecryptfs: Passphrase file wrapped"
[07:29] <RupertEverton> yeah i was looking just at that
[07:30] <RupertEverton> actually
[07:31] <RupertEverton> gnome-screensaver-dialog[15908]: pam_ecryptfs: seteuid error
[07:31] <RupertEverton> ---
[07:31] <RupertEverton> umount.ecryptfs[6820]: Failed to find key with sig [***]: Required key not available
[07:35] <RupertEverton> mgedmin I'll reboot a few more times with pam integration enabled and disabled -- brb
[07:52] <RupertEverton> mgedmin now this is weird, it worked every time with and without pam. The only difference shown in the logs is that when pam is enable i have the following three logs:
[07:52] <RupertEverton> systemd-modules-load[47x]: Module 'ecryptfs' is built in
[07:52] <RupertEverton> systemd[108x]: Perhaps try the interactive 'ecryptfs-mount-private'
[07:52] <RupertEverton> lightdm[109x]: Perhaps try the interactive 'ecryptfs-mount-private'
[07:52] <mgedmin> yeah
[07:53] <mgedmin> afaict the pam_ecryptfs: seteuid error is purely costemtic
[07:53] <mgedmin> *cosmetic
[07:53] <mgedmin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/1085706
[07:53] <mgedmin> also, lightdm?  gnome-screensaver?  what ubuntu version are you using?
[07:53] <RupertEverton> ubuntu budgie 21.04
[07:54] <mgedmin> I'm also very surprised that unmounting needs the secret key
[07:54] <mgedmin> you can use `keyctl show` to see if you have any keys added to the the kernel keyring
[07:55] <mgedmin> I see two user: keys here (as an ecryptfs user)
[07:55] <mgedmin> AFAIU one's used to encrypt filenames, and the other one to encrypt file contents?
[07:55] <mgedmin> looked at /usr/bin/ecryptfs-mount-private (which is a bash script) a bit
[07:55] <RupertEverton> yes i also have two keys
[07:55] <mgedmin> the way things work, it asks for your password, then uses that password to unwrap the encryption key and stuff it into the kernel keyring
[07:56] <mgedmin> nothing should be randomly removing keys from the kernel keyring
[07:56] <mgedmin> so I cannot explain the "umount.ecryptfs[6820]: Failed to find key with sig [***]: Required key not available"
[07:57] <RupertEverton> i got two consecutive errors like that one with different key ids, so i'd imagine those were the two keys stored in the keyring
[07:59] <mgedmin> it would be intresting to see what keyctl show shows when that error happens
[08:06] <mgedmin> speaking of ecryptfs, it's deperecated, and I wonder about alternatives
[08:06] <mgedmin> fscrypt?
[08:06] <RupertEverton> is it actually?
[08:07] <RupertEverton> i knew it's no longer employed on ubuntu installers in favor of luks
[08:07] <mgedmin> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECryptfs says it's deprecated, but the citation leads to a 404
[08:09] <uluntu> Hi
[08:10] <uluntu> I need help please with: Installing ubuntu 20.04 server: how to delete a partition? https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/652999/installing-ubuntu-20-04-server-how-to-delete-a-partition
[08:10] <RupertEverton> tbh the ecryptfs website doesnt seem to have been updated since 2020
[08:14] <mgedmin> uluntu: the error is produced here: https://github.com/canonical/subiquity/blob/2c7ec18aa870b8982972fc7c761a3ac34e5b0484/subiquity/common/filesystem/actions.py#L293
[08:14] <mgedmin> the logic of it escapes me
[08:16] <mgedmin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/subiquity/+bug/1868249
[08:21] <zamba> can linux (ubuntu) perform BOTH machine-based and user-based 802.1x authentication?
[08:22] <zamba> so first machine-based to put the computer into a network and then user-based whenever a user logs in?
[08:24] <uluntu> @mgedmin: I read https://github.com/canonical/subiquity/blob/2c7ec18aa870b8982972fc7c761a3ac34e5b0484/subiquity/common/filesystem/actions.py#L293 How should I Use that? Thanks.
[08:24] <mgedmin> the bug link is more useful
[08:25] <mgedmin> afaict your choices are (1) erase entire disk and create a new partition layour, or (2) switch to a shell on ctrl+alt+f2 and use a different partitioning tool (parted, or cfdisk)
[08:25] <uluntu> But how to use it?
[08:25] <mgedmin> I like cfdisk but I think it's deprecated/unmaintained
[08:42] <uluntu> @mgedmin: How the subiquity bug report helps?
[08:50] <tomreyn> uluntu: reading it seems to confirm that your choices are those mgedmin listed. so that's reassuring, i'd say.
[08:51] <uluntu> I think so.
[08:51] <tomreyn> uluntu: is you use case that you need to retain some partitions but need to install ubuntu to the same disk?
[08:53] <uluntu> @tomreyn: yes. I had wanted to delete that partition, create a new one to replace the deleted one and install ubuntu server on the new created one.
[08:54] <tomreyn> so i guess just destroying that partition outside of the installer GUI is your easiest otion then
[08:54] <tomreyn> btw. there's also #ubuntu-server
[08:57] <uluntu> @tomreyn: Thank you for letting me know the channel #ubuntu-server
[09:00] <tomreyn> you're welcome, uluntu. i also doubt they'll have a different answer - it's an unfixed bug. but i can be wrong.
[09:04] <sail0r> i thought you could ssh into ubuntu by default when you first start up?
[09:06] <tomreyn> as soon as an ssh server is installed, sure
[09:07] <tomreyn> i don't think the desktop installer installs on by default
[09:11] <toddc> Correct the desktop does not have ssh installed by default
[09:13] <toddc> I Just tested and it is not installed on ubuntu server 20.04 by default either
[09:13] <tomreyn> i think ubuntu server lets you choose to install one on the last but one installation screen
[09:15] <toddc> correct but not as default   how hard is sudo apt-get install openssh-server after install  otr the check box option either way
[09:15] <sail0r> i had the client but not the server so i could only ssh out.
[09:16] <sail0r> i installed openssh server and everything worked fine, but now i cant' ssh in anymore
[09:16] <toddc> most of the VM templates have it installed for user but not root so even those you have to add a user before ssh into a box
[09:18] <francis> sail0r: what error message are you getting if any?
[09:20] <sail0r> aallllllso having wreleess kb problems.. ihink i remember having the same issue last time i installed ubuntu
[09:20] <sail0r> no response
[09:20] <toddc> Rare for ssh to fail either way first test is to verify user and password and IP assuming local network on the server
[09:21] <toddc> I seem to mess up my notes all the time
[09:21] <sail0r> i installed xrdp and did one mod and thats all i can think that would cause an issue. but not sure why that would prevent ssh sessions from getting through
[09:22] <toddc> can you ping the server?
[09:23] <sail0r> well i wasnt sure if you have to change a config on / for all users or if it just auto config the user account config
[09:23] <toddc> user always
[09:24] <sail0r> well, im actually on it now... wanted to see if i missed something before going to bed
[09:24] <francis> does "ssh localhost" from the machine itself work?
[09:24] <sail0r> yes
[09:25] <francis> that's a good sign then :)
[09:25] <francis> have you got a firewall installed, eg ufw?
[09:25] <sail0r> no firewawll
[09:25] <sail0r> fresh install everythings still closed up
[09:27] <francis> are you able to visit https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 from the machine?
[09:27] <francis> it's an online port scanner and from the "common ports" tab you'll be able to see if ssh is open from the greater internet
[09:30] <sail0r> shouldnt it be available on my intranet?
[09:30] <sail0r> they're on the same network
[09:31] <sail0r> host n client
[09:32] <francis> ah. if it's lan you should be golden, hmm...
[09:33] <francis> what's the local ip address?
[09:35] <toddc> ssh username@local-IP-address
[09:36] <sail0r> yup, worked he first time but now it gets closed
[09:38] <francis> could you paste the output of "ssh -vv local-ip" to https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/ ?
[09:38] <sail0r> couuld this command have done anything to it?"echo "gnome-session --session=ubuntu-2d" > .xsession
[09:38] <sail0r> "
[09:41] <sail0r> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/gJcj83gMfw/
[09:41] <toddc> sail0r: no echo command does not change anything related to the network
[09:41] <sail0r> i cant recall right now if i logged in using the ip the first time or the hostaname
[09:42] <francis> you need to replace "local-ip" with you local ip address :)
[09:42] <francis> which you can find from "ip a s" or the network settingsconnections guis
[09:42] <sail0r> toddc: i was wondering if it was the output sent to the .xsession command that might have changed some config or somethin
[09:43] <sail0r> francis: in the host file or the etc ssh config?
[09:44] <sail0r> where is that script reading the debug info from to get that reply?
[09:44] <francis> neither. take a look at https://itsfoss.com/check-ip-address-ubuntu/
[09:44] <toddc> no echo will just verifiy a output of the opertion in this case gnome
[09:44] <francis> once you have you r local ip address (let's say <IP_ADDRESS>), then you "ssh -vv <IP_ADDRESS>"
[09:45] <sail0r> toddc; thanks
[09:46] <toddc>  as francis said hostname adds a few more issues work with a ip  static is preferred then deal with a hostname  second as that willl involve you router
[09:46] <sail0r> i had already done that, i just cant remember if i was trying to use the hostname or not. ill have to try in the morning. although it would be ideal to have it work for the hostname.
[09:48] <sail0r> well i didn't expect that my device would get the same ip every tie anyway, and wouldn't the hostname be prefereble for that anyhow
[09:48] <sail0r> ?
[09:48] <sail0r> default on raspbian and lmde seem to work with hostnames
[09:49] <toddc> you router may not be updating hostname to ip  that thaks a while to update if any changes happed
[09:50] <toddc> so for testing ip does not need a router ---better till everything works and is stable
[09:51] <sail0r> hrrmm, i guess that makes sense. im passing out so ill try again later. thank for the help guys
[09:51] <toddc> ip goes direct to the server vs host name gomes from the router and has to be updated on both machines to find each other
[09:52] <toddc> in simple terms
[11:04] <ac5tin> is lightdm prefered over gdm3 ?
[11:05] <mgedmin> by who?
[11:05] <mgedmin> ubuntu desktop uses gdm3
[11:06] <mgedmin> I'm sure there are some users somewhere that prefer lightdm
[11:06] <mgedmin> note that modern gnome desktop requires gdm for some features to work correctly (fast user switching?  screen locking?  I don't remember all the details)
[11:06] <ac5tin> trying to install xserver and it asked whether to install gdm3 or lightdm
[11:07] <ac5tin> instaling xfce4
[11:27] <guiverc> ac5tin, gdm3 is a cut-down GNOME DM so makes sense for a GNOME desktop... makes less sense with XFCE so I'd use whatever Xubuntu does
[11:42] <RupertEverton> I'm having a no-sound issue -- in settings i see the bar coloring up when i play a video but there's no actual output. i tried to force-reload alsa, remove pulseaudio config and reboot, reinstall alsa-base and pulseaudio. alsamixer shows that the speakers are not muted and at full volume. the following is the output of "pulseaudio"
[11:42] <RupertEverton> E: [pulseaudio] pid.c: Daemon already running.
[11:42] <RupertEverton> E: [pulseaudio] main.c: pa_pid_file_create() failed.
[11:44] <dragon2> is anyone good with wireless connection on printers?
[11:44] <mgedmin> dunno, the office mfp is wireless and works fine here
[11:45] <mgedmin> all I had to do is use its touchscreen to connect to the right wlan with the right wpa key
[11:45] <jeremy31> I connect my printer to the router and it works fine
[11:45] <dragon2> I get as far as filling in the password,  but then it beeps in protest
[11:47] <dragon2> It`s a Brother printer, I am installing new drivers on a Windows machine at work, and hoping my laptop detects it
[11:47] <dragon2> Ubuntu should detect things like that?
[11:48] <dragon2> I think it`s mostly a wireless issue, but making things work between PCs and printers, etc
[11:49] <mgedmin> at one point it was easier to print from ubuntu than from a windows laptop -- ubuntu would autodetect the printer, we never figured out how to make it work on windows
[11:49] <mgedmin> but wifi setup comes first, and ubuntu can't help here
[11:50] <dragon2> Ubuntu is usually very smooth with interactions
[11:50] <mgedmin> (ignoring bugs, which are, alas, not yet all eradicated)
[11:50] <dragon2> A usb cable would probably work right a way, but I need the wireless
[11:54] <lotuspsychje> dragon2: does gnome systemsettings recognize your printer?
[11:56] <dragon2> no printer detecrted
[11:58] <lotuspsychje> dragon2: maybe you should journalctl -f and plug it with usb first, to see what it does
[11:59] <mgedmin> mdns-scan or avahi-browse -a can tell you if the printer is connected to your network and is broadcasting mDNS announcements
[12:01] <mgedmin> I'm getting 10 of these for my printer, plus an extra 3 from cups on our local server
[12:11] <Guest82> what is the best way to set DNS servers permanently for the whole system?
[12:11] <mgedmin> have your dhcp server hand them out?
[12:13] <mgedmin> you can configure static DNS in netplan
[12:13] <mgedmin> (or whatever network configuration tool you use)
[12:15] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[12:15] <Guest82> mgedmin not possible in systemd-resolv?
[12:16] <mgedmin> systemd-resolved takes upstream DNS configuration from systemd-networkd or network-manager, depending on which one you use
[12:17] <mgedmin> I guess the simplest option is to replace the /etc/resolv.conf symlink with a plain file that has your desired DNS server
[12:17] <mgedmin> but then you lose systemd-resolved's features like caching and DNSSEC support
[12:22] <Guest8240> mgedmin i applied conf here https://linuxize.com/post/how-to-set-dns-nameservers-on-ubuntu-18-04/ but still not affected
[12:22] <mgedmin> ah so it's a desktop and you use network manager
[12:22] <Guest8240> yes
[12:23] <mgedmin> and what does systemd-resolve --status say?
[12:23] <Guest8240> DNS Servers: <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:23] <mgedmin> hmm
[12:23] <mgedmin> have you tried disconnecting and then reconnecting?
[12:24] <bailsman> Is it possible to filter a repository so that I get only one package from it?
[12:25] <Guest8240> mgedmin  restarted the systemd-resolv
[12:25] <mgedmin> bailsman: yes, see man apt_preferences
[12:26] <bailsman> Found this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto is that the right approach?
[12:27] <mgedmin> yes-ish
[12:27] <mgedmin> I wouldn't touch APT::Default-Release, it'll cause pain on upgrades
[12:28] <mgedmin> the other bit, /etc/apt/preferences, is the thing I mentioned earlier
[12:28] <bailsman> I want to install prometheus-node-exporter from Groovy so that I can use tls. But that is the only package I want to pull/update from groovy. I realize that this is 100% at my own risk and there is a decent chance cross release packages won't even work at all or malfunction in weird ways.
[12:28] <mgedmin> https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/impish/en/man5/apt_preferences.5.html
[12:28] <mgedmin> finding a ppa that backports the thing you want is better
[12:28] <mgedmin> if there's no ppa you can try to create one and do the backport yourself
[12:30] <mgedmin> all you need is pull-lp-source prometheus-node-exporter groovy; cd prometheus-node-exporter-*; dch -i and adjust the version number to be same as in groovy with a ~ubuntu20.04 suffix (assuming you're backporting to focal) and set the release to focal
[12:30] <mgedmin> then debuild -i -S, cd .., dput *.changes
[12:30] <mgedmin> oh and you need to have a gpg key associated with your launchpad account and a ppa created in launchpad
[12:31] <mgedmin> and I omitted the ppa:yourname/ppa argument from dput
[12:31] <bailsman> Thing is that I don't want to watch prometheus github, if there's a security issue or anything, I want it to auto update or at least flag that there's an update. If it breaks completely after the update, that's fine, maybe I'll rebuild it myself the.n
[12:31] <mgedmin> well, hmm
[12:31] <Guest8240> why ubuntu still doesn't fully encrypt the disk including /boot yet?
[12:32] <mgedmin> I suspect you'll get library compatibility issues if you try to install a groovy package on focal, but eh, why not try it out in docker or lxd or something
[12:40] <Guest8240> mgedmin renderer in netplan should be netowrkd or networkmanager?
[12:40] <mgedmin> it depends on which one you use
[12:41] <mgedmin> if you don't understand it, don't change it
[12:41] <bailsman> It actually worked in Docker! Does that mean this ISNT a major footgun? Also: don't I need the default release, even though it messes with upgrades, just to make sure I don't accidentally upgrade another package?
[12:42] <bailsman> Is there an apt preferences only method? I did the pinning for prometheus-node-exporter
[12:43] <mgedmin> you pin everything in groovy to some very low priority like -1, and then pin prometheus-node-exporter to something higher than the default pin (which is 500)
[12:43] <bailsman> Beautiful! Thank you
[13:34] <isapgswell> xrandr works with mutter???
[13:35] <isapgswell> or autorandr
[13:36] <ogra> xrandr works with X11 ... no matter what window manager you use
[13:36] <isapgswell> ogra humm
[13:37] <isapgswell> i disabled xrandr via gsettings
[13:37] <isapgswell> it break my wallpaper rendering
[13:51] <isapgswell> daemon/service is assynchronous and no arbritary
[13:51] <isapgswell> agent/client is synchronous and arbritary
[13:54] <isapgswell> mouse_click/mouse_release, dual IRQ??
[13:55] <isapgswell> duo IRQ?
[13:55] <isapgswell> same event?
[13:57] <isapgswell> what about thread listening transition events
[13:57] <isapgswell> sorry, thread waiting transitions terminating
[13:59] <ogra> isapgswell, are you aware that you are dumping completely context-less stuff into the channel since two days ? it would really help if you phrased proper questions in full sentences, described what you have tried which lead to which errors etc etc just dumping phrases like "fabookle mobatle or not ?" into the channel wont help you or us to help you
[14:00] <isapgswell> ogra :-D
[14:01] <DJD> I think is better just to type /quit and go to /server irc.freenode.net instead of pulling up with jerks ;X like Unit193 and there French hating Americans.
[14:01] <DJD> ;X
[14:01] <DJD> Of the IRCOPS from this net
[14:02] <DJD> Diving the nets
[14:18] <magic_ninja> How can I reload the v4l2 kernel module? For some reason my webcam locks up sometimes and I have to reboot. I want to see if just reloading the kernel module works
[14:21] <tomreyn> magic_ninja: is that an integrated webcam?
[14:21] <magic_ninja> tomreyn, no, it is a usb webcam.
[14:21] <tomreyn> if not, just pull the usb cable and reconnect it, maybe to a different usb port.
[14:21] <magic_ninja> is there a way to reset a usb port via software?
[14:22] <tomreyn> most likely, but i dont know it
[14:22] <ogra> beyond this it is very likely the module it uses is "uvcvideo"
[14:22] <magic_ninja> fair enough. It actually isn't even showing up on usb.
[14:23] <ogra> regarding powering usb ports off/on ... see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18765725/turning-off-a-single-usb-device-again
[14:24] <ogra> (via the bind/unbind sysfs nodes)
[14:25] <magic_ninja> Unplugging and plugging back in works, but only sometimes.
[14:25] <magic_ninja> It worked this time, but has failed the other dozen or so times it happened.
[14:25] <magic_ninja> I kind of wonder if perhaps something changes after I apply updates that causes it.
[14:32] <tomreyn> https://askubuntu.com/questions/645/how-do-you-reset-a-usb-device-from-the-command-line should work, it sends a USBDEVFS_RESET ioctl to the device. i assume that's also possible through sysfs, but not sure how
[14:48] <tsujp> What user does cloud-init run as? I've done `su - myuser` in a bash script I'm giving it and it says it's myuser (verified with $(pwd) in the script) but everything it creates etc is chowned to `root`... why?
[14:48] <tsujp> also stuff like $USER and $HOME aren't set
[14:56] <ogra> tsujp, perhaps more a question for #ubuntu-server
[14:57] <tsujp> Cheers ogra
[15:44] <bl> Are there any issues with running Ubuntu and Xubuntu with the same /home directory?
[15:45] <tomreyn> bl: i would *assume* not.
[15:45] <tomreyn> unless it's two different kernels accessing it at the same time
[15:46] <bl> oh, that's a good point.  i hadn't thought of it like that.  i was thinking for a single machine
[15:47] <tomreyn> if you'll do multi-boot (booting only one at a time) or switch DEs during login then i assume it will be fine.
[15:48] <tomreyn> but.. that's theoretical
[15:48] <bl> what are DEs?
[15:48] <tomreyn> desktop environments
[15:48] <bl> gotcha
[15:48] <tomreyn> i.e. gnome-shell/metacity (ubuntu) and xfce4/xfwm4 (xubuntu)
[15:49] <bl> we'll it'll be an interesting experiment
[15:49] <bl> yea
[15:49] <tomreyn> just don't expect it to be easily reversible
[15:50] <ioria> and remember that by now (21.04) home is ecrypted by default
[15:51] <bl> a situation where multiple kernels might access /home at the same time would be if the storage (ie. /home) is on network storage and multiple machines can access at once
[15:51] <bl> or virtual machines?
[15:52] <bl> ioria: thanks, i didn't realize that was the case
[15:53] <ioria> bl if you ask me, it's just  not a good idea (can lead to conflicts,  i mean the programs settings in the hidden folders and such )
[15:54] <bl> ioria: sounds like this just isn't a use case considered by the Ubuntu/Xubuntu teams
[15:54] <tomreyn> bl: a situation where multiple kernels might access /home at the same time would *not* be a problem is that home was e.g. an NFS export. it *woould* be a problem if those were e.g. virtual machines both accessing the same storage device directly.
[15:55] <tomreyn> bl: most people will choose one desktop environment and keep using that.
[15:56] <tomreyn> what's your use case?
[15:59] <toddc> We have done mutible DE's at our installfest with no issues to show the differences . It works and we have had no issues but I might not call that stable or well tested
[15:59] <ratrace> Hello. I want to install Ubuntu bit without a predefined desktop, and then build up a i3-wm based one, package by package.  Is it better I start from the desktop ISO, or is the server ISO fine too? I prefer building UP instead of removing packages.
[15:59] <bl> tomreyn: oh, is that because NFS will serialize the IO?  also i guess my use case is just wanting to be able to use either distribution.  i have used Ubuntu for years and i like a lot of things about it but i think Xubuntu is supposed to be a bit lighter weight
[16:00] <toddc> ratrace: desktop kernal build and change to the new DE and programs
[16:01] <ioria> bl  especially   if you use different versions of the two OSs (Xub 18.04 and Ubu 21.04); in this case, you'll have different versions of the same programs stroring its settings
[16:01] <ratrace> toddc: I don't understand what you're saying. I'm primarily asking if I can build up to a desktop of choice, starting with headless server ISO
[16:02] <bl> ioria: that's a good point, i was definitely planning on keeping the same version ie. 20.04
[16:03] <tomreyn> bl: i don't actually know how exactly NFS or other network file systems ensure that concurrent writes are possible, but i'm sure you can read up on this online.
[16:03] <Guest8240> why it's wrong to set dns server in /etc/resolv.conf?
[16:03] <toddc> ratrace: you can but the server kernal is not optimised for a desktop envoroment so it would be better to change A-B
[16:06] <tomreyn> toddc: it's actually the same kernel
[16:07] <ratrace> yeah I think it's the same linux-image-generic
[16:07] <tomreyn> ratrace: i think both approaches can work. the server installation will have less software installed, and some different defaults, whereas the desktop installation will have more software installed you may want to remove.
[16:07] <tomreyn> a third approach would be debootstrap or the like
[16:07] <ratrace> tomreyn: right. I want a very minimal setup for i3-wm and steam, nothing else.
[16:08] <ratrace> yeah debootstrap, I have setup scripts but for servers. hence me wanting to start with the server ISO
[16:08] <tomreyn> there's also the legacy debian-installer for some releases which could create small customized installations
[16:10] <tomreyn> so start with subiquity and install network-manager afterwards, and replace the systemd-networkd configuration and remove netplan
[16:10] <tomreyn> this is probably far from a full list of the differences between a ubiquity and a subiquity installation.
[16:11] <toddc> tomreyn: you are correct 12.04 and newer are the same I learnid somthing today
[16:19] <ratrace> I don't really plan to use network manager but networkd. thanks for confirming tho, I'll manage. Just wasn't sure if ubuntu is "still" the same big repo, and it only depends which packages you install.
[16:24] <Guest20> I set dns=none to NetworkManager conf but it still overwrites /etc/resolv.conf, any idea?
[16:33] <Guest9956> hi
[16:33] <Guest9956> I cannot install Linux Mint with a amd dedicated gpu
[16:36] <Mekaneck> Guest9956: this is a Ubuntu support channel. We don't support Linux Mint here.
[16:37] <Mekaneck> Guest9956: you can find them on the Spotchat server
[16:38] <Mekaneck> |Mint
[16:38] <Mekaneck> !Mint
[16:38] <Mekaneck> Guest9956: ^
[16:38] <jpmh> I have a USB connected Raspberry Pi on my Ubuntu laptop.  The laptop is and needs to be connected to wifi, sometimes 10. network, sometimes 192.168 types, depending on the coffee shop  I am in.  When I do an ip a, each device does see the other.  The pi has a 16.254 local address for the usb.  In order to connect the two though I have a problem.  dhcp allocated a 10. address to my wifi, but no address to my usb0 device.  I can force
[16:38] <jpmh> dhcp to do that with dhcpcd but then I lose access to my wifi.  How should I be doing this.  I would add that the Pi too has wifi.  When I do use dhcpcd on the Ubuntu machine I can indeed connect to pi.local
[16:46] <irl25519> Is it possible to override font sizes for specific applications?
[16:47] <jpmh> on the communication question that I asked.  I solved it - just needed to tell dhcpcd to probe BOTH interfaces
[16:51] <who> rroblopx
[16:51] <who> d
[16:52] <jpmh> when I connect a device Ubuntu allocates it a name such as enx16ac4bd157b9 - how does it determine that name and why?
[16:59] <oerheks> jpmh, because the new network interface naming protocol, https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
[16:59] <oerheks> it is a breeze when MAAS or cluster is setup
[17:00] <jpmh> oerheks: TY - I will go and read that.  But why can it notjust give the same name each time I connect the same device
[17:02] <jpmh> oerheks: that document implies that it does do what I want it to do and it doesn't - what am I missing here?
[17:05] <oerheks> jpmh, create a static naming in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules, some old reading https://itectec.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-network-interface-name-changes-after-update-to-15-10-udev-changes/
[17:05] <oerheks> maybe #ubuntu-server can answer more than this //
[17:06] <jpmh> oerheks: TY agaun -now reading that
[17:21] <jjbuggle> so this is an out there question:  I want to organize and tag a group of files on my harddrive, but without changing the file names.  Any suggestions?  I've been using folders and links, and maybe I should just use a spread sheet.  I dunno
[17:29] <RupertEverton> Does anyone know how to adjust scaling to support HiDPI screens? Spotify is barely usable as it's too small -- followed the suggestions here but none worked https://community.spotify.com/t5/Desktop-Linux/Linux-client-barely-usable-on-HiDPI-displays/td-p/1067272
[17:40] <RupertEverton> nvm, solved the above with menulibre
[17:54] <JamesB192> how can I get apt update and install to work for hirsute/impish in docker? it would appear I need to add one or more keys.
[18:05] <jpmh> JamesB192: works for me with nothing special
[18:07] <quantum> have a strange issue. I unplugged my computer (Asus MB). then the system would not start up. had to reset the bios, then the system would boot, but hand during booting. so I booted to an older kernel and it works. Now I am trying to figure out why the newer kernel will not boot. running5.8.0-53-generic, but5.8.0-55-generic  will not boot. Not sure what is going on
[18:09] <quantum> I have tried update-grub and various things, but nothing seems to fix it.
[18:10] <jeremy31> quantum: what Ubuntu version?
[18:10] <quantum> Not sure what to try next. right now if I boot with recovery mode it hangs after saying ok to reached target local encrypted volumes
[18:10] <quantum> 20.04
[18:12] <quantum> since I can boot to the older kernel version if feels like something got corrupted with the newer one. I feel like it is something with the NVIDIA drivers, but am not sure
[18:12] <jeremy31> you could try reinstalling that kernel> sudo apt install --reinstall linux-generic-hwe-20.04
[18:13] <quantum> I tried switching the nvidia driver while booted in the  running5.8.0-53-generic, but don't know if that switched it for the other kernel. either way it didn't boot still
[18:13] <jeremy31> Are you using encryption?
[18:13] <quantum> don't think so, but it seemed to say o.k. to that line
[18:14] <quantum> [o.k.] Reached target Local Encrypted Volume
[18:15] <quantum> that will reinstall the 5.8.0-55-generic kernel?
[18:16] <quantum> is there a way to reinstall all the NVIDIA stuff too?
[18:17] <tomreyn> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1319889/ubuntu-20-04-stuck-at-ok-reached-target-local-encrypted-volumes ran into the same symptoms as you did
[18:17] <jeremy31> quantum: It should install it as that should be the kernel pulled in by the meta package
[18:18] <quantum> yeah that looks like where mine stopped
[18:18] <jeremy31> So whatever it was going to check next failed
[18:19] <quantum> yes, is there a script it is following
[18:21] <quantum> he says something about getting stuck at gnome display manager, that sounds about right
[18:21] <jeremy31> quantum: see if nvidia is installed for the -55 kernel in>  dkms status
[18:21] <quantum> which seems like it is something with the graphics drivers to me
[18:22] <quantum> vidia, 460.80, 5.8.0-55-generic, x86_64: installed
[18:22] <quantum> is there a way to --reinstall it though if it got corrupted or something
[18:23] <jeremy31> sudo dkms install nvidia/460.80 -k 5.8.0-55-generic
[18:24] <quantum> yes it is installed apparently for the 55 kernel, would this work 'sudo apt install --reinstall nvidia-driver-460' work?
[18:25] <jeremy31> It may attempt to reinstall
[18:25] <quantum> or should I try with dkms uninstall then reinstall
[18:26] <jeremy31> quantum: I don't think you want to uninstall
[18:27] <quantum> well, if I do the reinstall it my screw up my currently running kernel so that doesn't seem like a good choice, unless I downgrade the driver then do an install and a reinstall after booting to the older version I guess
[18:27] <quantum> I mean if I do  a reinstall it may screw up my currently running system
[18:28] <quantum> well, let me try a reboot as is since I did the kernel reinstall and see what happens. I will hopefully be back
[18:28] <jeremy31> quantum: it will just tell you already installed on that kernel, just tried with a different dkms driver
[18:28] <quantum> yes dkms says it is sintalled for both kernels
[18:28] <jeremy31> the kernel reinstall may have triggered dkms to build new
[18:29] <quantum> ok, be back after a reboot hopefully
[18:33] <quantum> o.k. I think the apt install --reinstall linux-=generic-hwe-20.04 seemed to fix it
[18:34] <quantum> seemed to book up with 5.8.0-55-generic o.k. now
[18:34] <quantum> thanks
[18:34] <jeremy31> good
[18:34] <quantum> still very strange, no idea what my MB did to it
[18:35] <quantum> wonder if there is a glitch with my NVMe
[18:36] <jeremy31> Could have been some odd error with the kernel install
[18:37] <quantum> oh, well, guess I know how to fix it now if it happens again
[18:48] <ratrace> hi. I'm running Focal live USB ISO env... I'm in "Try out ubuntu" mode because I want to debootstrap the installation. The live env no longer has the ability to set up non-en keyboard layout?
[18:48] <bumblefuzz> So, my wifi will just completely stop working
[18:49] <bumblefuzz> I have to reboot to fix it
[18:49] <bumblefuzz> when I do, the logs are gone
[18:49] <bumblefuzz> this is a snapshot of the logs before I rebooted: https://i.imgur.com/6wfaZBq.png
[18:50] <bumblefuzz> also, I did export all the logs before I rebooted... so maybe it's in there?
[18:50] <bumblefuzz> there's just a ton of files and I don't know which to look in
[18:53] <CodeMouse92> I need some help. I have full-disk encryption and auto-login (because why password twice), but although gnome-keyring-daemon is included in startup applications, the GNOME keyring is NOT unlocking automatically, nor prompting to unlock...
[18:53] <bumblefuzz> can anyone help me figure out why my wifi just stalls requiring a reboot all the time?
[18:53] <CodeMouse92> To make matters worse, goa-daemon is starting, not seeing an unlocked keyring, and thus reporting that there are no online accounts
[18:54] <CodeMouse92> Which in turn causes Evolution to clear its settings. Every. Single. Boot.
[18:54] <quantum> is one supposed to do a apt-get dist-upgrade without breaking Ubuntu
[18:54] <CodeMouse92> How do I fix this little issue?
[18:54] <jeremy31> bumblefuzz: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2354328&p=13614520&#post13614520
[18:54] <CodeMouse92> quantum: in theory, although any given package update *might* theoretically break something. ;)
[18:54] <CodeMouse92> But it doesn't, say, go from 18.04 to 20.04 or anything nuts like that
[18:59] <quantum> o.k. but was trying to figure out if it is something typically done. it sounds like there is generally no reason to do it
[18:59] <Anna_> tomreyn: Hello. Do you remember me?
[18:59] <CodeMouse92> quantum: Basically, no. You can roll things back in the worst case.
[18:59] <CodeMouse92> I mean...roll back an individual package.
[18:59] <CodeMouse92> But, 10 years, never had a dist-upgrade break my user OS.
[19:00] <bumblefuzz> jeremy31 did you look at the picture I posted?
[19:00] <bumblefuzz> I don't think that's the problem
[19:00] <bumblefuzz> it stalls because of keys and encryption
[19:00] <quantum> ok thanks
[19:01] <jeremy31> bumblefuzz: Are you using TKIP encryption
[19:01] <bumblefuzz> no
[19:02] <bumblefuzz> I can check the logs but I don't know where to find the messages that popped up before I rebooted
[19:02] <bumblefuzz> I exported everything
[19:02] <bumblefuzz> so it should be there
[19:03] <jeremy31> bumblefuzz: on a Live ISO?
[19:03] <bumblefuzz> no
[19:03] <jeremy31> older kernel logs should have the errors
[19:04] <jeremy31> bumblefuzz: run the 2 commands at https://gist.github.com/jeremyb31/a2bee9856d8c13f42f1835bc31bf9480 in terminal and post the termbin URL after the second command is done.
[19:05] <bumblefuzz> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VSmZmN7jqG/
[19:08] <ratrace> is there a bot factoid for (focal's) apt/sources.list ?
[19:09] <jeremy31> bumblefuzz: try>  echo "options iwlwifi 11n_disable=1 swcrypto=1" | sudo tee /etc/modprobe.d/iwlwifi-opt.conf
[19:09] <bumblefuzz> jeremy31https://termbin.com/0vas
[19:10] <jeremy31> bumblefuzz: > sudo iwconfig wlp0s20f3 power off
[19:10] <bumblefuzz> will that not shut off my wifi?
[19:11] <jeremy31> bumblefuzz: no, just disable power management, change the router to channel 6
[19:12] <oerheks> ratrace, no
[19:12] <bumblefuzz> and the first command?
[19:12] <bumblefuzz> swcrypto?
[19:12] <oerheks> sudo cp /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list
[19:12] <oerheks> basicly for any ubuntu version.
[19:12] <jeremy31> bumblefuzz: According to an archlinux thread, that might fix it
[19:12] <ratrace> oerheks: k, thanks
[19:12] <Unit193> Huh, didn't know that one.
[19:12] <oerheks> all you need is to add universe probably
[19:13] <oerheks> Unit193, found @ https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2455131
[19:13] <Unit193> I use deb822 formatting, so it'd be different.  But that's great, I'll have to remember that if someone else asks.
[19:14] <oerheks> Unit193, maybe i should ask for this solution to be added as factoid
[19:15] <jeremy31> bumblefuzz: The router might need a reboot as one line in the results is unusual>  Authentication Suites (2) : PSK unknown (4)
[19:16] <jeremy31> bumblefuzz: also try with firewall disabled
[19:24] <bumblefuzz> jeremy31 so now we just wait and see if it happens again
[19:24] <bumblefuzz> ?
[19:25] <jeremy31> bumblefuzz: That swcrypto doesn't take effect until a reboot
[19:25] <bumblefuzz> and what does that do exactly?
[19:26] <jeremy31> enables software encryption if I remember
[19:26] <jeremy31> bumblefuzz: lets change that>  echo "options iwlwifi 11n_disable=8 swcrypto=1" | sudo tee /etc/modprobe.d/iwlwifi-opt.conf
[19:27] <bumblefuzz> and reboot?
[19:27] <jeremy31> 11n_disable=1 actually disables wifi-n, =8 enables agressive TX, reboot
[19:31] <bumblefuzz> jeremy31 anything else?
[19:32] <jeremy31> not that I can think of, unless there is an update for the router
[19:32] <bumblefuzz> not that I see
[19:33] <bumblefuzz> I'll just wait and see
[19:33] <bumblefuzz> thanks for your help!
[19:33] <jeremy31> ok
[19:34] <pikapika> Anyone using firefox here?
[19:35] <cbreak> I use firefox everywhere
[19:35] <pikapika> cbreak, do you have that infamous firefox 89 now
[19:35] <pikapika> If you have
[19:35] <pikapika> Do you see the downloads button?
[19:36] <cbreak> yes, and yes.
[19:37] <cbreak> 89 on Mac OS, Ubuntu, Android
[19:37] <cbreak> I see a download button on the first two
[19:37] <pikapika> Like the one you get a dropdown of current downloads from if you click it right?
[19:37] <pikapika> to the right of the url bar
[19:37] <cbreak> yes
[19:37] <cbreak> just like before, but with a different icon.
[19:37] <pikapika> cbreak, its suddely missing in mine
[19:38] <cbreak> right click toolbar, select customize...
[19:38] <cbreak> and drag it back, if you find it there
[19:38] <cbreak> or find it in the overflow menu and drag it out
[19:38] <pikapika> Yeah its not there either
[19:38] <pikapika> In theCustomize toolbar page
[19:38] <pikapika> cbreak, whats the overflow menu?
[19:38] <cbreak> the thing that looks like a right shift
[19:38] <cbreak> >>
[19:39] <pikapika> I don't see thsat
[19:39] <pikapika> I don't see that
[19:39] <pikapika> oh wtf
[19:40] <pikapika> cbreak, I just noticed it
[19:40] <pikapika> What in the name of fucking fuck is this new icon
[19:40] <cbreak> it's down ... load?
[19:40] <pikapika> Its a pie chart
[19:40] <Unit193> pikapika: Can you keep the language a bit cleaner here?  Thanks.
[19:40] <pikapika> A white circle with a blue slice
[19:40] <pikapika> wtf
[19:40] <pikapika> Unit193, these new "ui developments" make it hard to but I'll avoid
[19:40] <cbreak> here it looks like an arrow pointing down
[19:40] <Chunkyz-RPi> !language | pikapika
[19:41] <pikapika> cbreak, it used to be a downward arrow
[19:41] <Unit193> I get frustrated with firefox too, yeah.
[19:41] <cbreak> with a kind of dish below it
[19:41] <pikapika> Its now just a pie chart icon
[19:41] <cbreak> it changes to a progress circle while you download stuff
[19:41] <cbreak> I think?
[19:41] <pikapika> cbreak, thats a new thing
[19:41] <cbreak> like a radial progress bar
[19:41] <pikapika> I always had one or two paused downloads
[19:41] <cbreak> well... not a bar. A progress pie chart
[19:41] <pikapika> But it didn't change the icon
[19:41] <pikapika> I canceled it
[19:41] <pikapika> And now its back to the down arrow
[19:42] <pikapika> It was a pie chart before
[19:42] <pikapika> Which it wasn't even in this partial download stage in the earlier ui
[19:42] <cbreak> well, grats, you found your button. It was just cosplaying
[19:42] <pikapika> I'll have to investigate how to keep the same Down arrow in both states now
[19:42] <pikapika> Goddamn ui designer idiots
[19:42] <cbreak> having progress is nice.
[19:43] <cbreak> you could enable text labels :D
[19:43] <cbreak> in the good old times, text was all we had. These new-fangled "graphical iconographics"... don't need 'em
[19:44] <Chunkyz-RPi> Unit193: he's been told SEVERAL times about his bad language and continues to swear.
[19:45] <pikapika> Yeah but like its very unintuitve for the downloads icon to change to a completely different thing depending upon state
[19:45] <cbreak> might not be intuitive, but it's useful.
[19:46] <cbreak> it is probably possible to skin it to some degree...
[20:17] <Guest91> hey all. i've got a fresh install of 20.04 lts. when i run snap-store from terminal I get this: https://pastebin.com/j7hkMALj
[20:18] <Guest91> ive attempted to reinstall snap-store as well as libgtk3.0 with no change
[20:18] <Guest91> has anyone else run into this?
[20:18] <oerheks> why run snapstore from terminal?
[20:18] <Guest91> it won't launch from gnome. just hangs and closes
[20:18] <Guest91> was trying to troubleshoot why
[20:20] <oerheks> tried to reinstall? or proper update; sudo apt update && sudo apt dist-upgrade
[20:20] <Guest91> i was attempting to avoid reinstallation. i've done apt-get update and upgrade
[20:21] <Guest91> ill try dis-upgrade
[20:21] <Guest91> dist*
[20:22] <Guest91> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[20:23] <oerheks> snap remove snap-store and snap install snap-store again should fix it
[20:23] <Guest91> i have attempted that as well
[20:23] <Guest91> no change
[20:24] <arif-ali> oerheks: have you tried with snap remove --purge <snap>
[20:24] <Guest91> i think i have. but can't hurt to try again
[20:25] <arif-ali> sorry wrong tag
[20:25] <Guest91> its all good
[20:26] <Guest91> same error on output after running a purge
[20:27] <Guest91> @arif-ali https://pastebin.com/j7hkMALj
[20:27] <oerheks> i cannot run it from terminal too, so try from the menu again
[20:28] <Guest91> it opened in the task bar, hung and closed
[20:29] <Guest91> is snap store any different than gnome-software? im giving this laptop to a 13 year old to learn on
[20:29] <Guest91> if not I just won't worry about
[20:29] <oerheks> https://status.snapcraft.io/
[20:29] <arif-ali> tbh, I get an error too, never tried snap-store before
[20:30] <Guest91> ah. their site shows intermittent access
[20:30] <Guest91> maybe i've over complicated this too much
[20:31] <spartanturtle> is snap store suffering side effects of Fastly?
[20:48] <ogra> spartanturtle, nope, the snap store stopped using fastly a while ago
[20:49] <ogra> (not related)
[21:34] <Sven_vB> in focal, how can I tell systemd that nullmailer shall only run when any network interface with a default gateway is up?


[06:32] <didrocks> good morning
[07:34] <pitti> Good morning
[07:35] <pitti> Bonjour
[07:37] <didrocks> bonjour pitti! c'est à ton tour de te lever tard ;)
[07:38] <pitti> didrocks: oui, je ne suis pas très bien
[07:38] <pitti> seems my cold came back, after I was already over it
[07:40] <larsu> good morning!
[07:40] <didrocks> argh, take care pitti :/
[07:40] <didrocks> hey larsu! how are you?
[07:40] <larsu> didrocks, good thanks, and you?
[07:40] <pitti> hey larsu!
[07:40] <larsu> pitti, hi, gute Besserung!
[07:41] <didrocks> larsu: I'm fine, thanks!
[07:41] <larsu> is there a reason that `update-manager -d` doesn't work?
[07:41]  * larsu wants to finally update to R
[07:43] <mvo> larsu: do you have pending updates?
[07:43] <larsu> mvo, no
[07:43] <mvo> larsu: hm, does do-release-upgrade -d work?
[07:43] <pitti> oh, hey mvo, happy new year!
[07:44] <mvo> hey pitti, happy new year!
[07:44] <larsu> mvo, seems to work, thanks!
[07:45] <larsu> and happy new year ;)
[07:45] <mvo> cool
[07:45] <mvo> and happy new year larsu
[07:45] <larsu> thanks :)
[07:52] <didrocks> hey mvo! happy new year :-)
[08:15] <pitti> RAOF: hey Chris, how are you?
[08:15] <RAOF> pitti: Yo!
[08:16] <RAOF> pitti: I'm within one standard deviation of my long-term average :)
[08:16] <pitti> haha
[08:16] <pitti> RAOF: happy new year then!
[08:17] <RAOF> pitti: And to you, likewise!
[08:17] <pitti> RAOF: and may your health not deviate more than 1.5σ from the expected value :)
[08:18] <pitti> RAOF: so I wanted to ask you, do you know how and where X.org detects monitors?
[08:18] <pitti> RAOF: I already checked the X.org server itself and its xrandr extension; that doesn't just seem to read sysfs or so; it seems that's the responsibility of the individual device drivers?
[08:19] <pitti> RAOF: background is, I want to see whether and to which degree we can simulate monitors in a mock environment, for writing tsts
[08:19] <pitti> and tests, too
[08:19] <RAOF> The drivers we care about query the kernel.
[08:19] <pitti> so I was hoping it would just read syfs, but it doesn't
[08:19] <RAOF> Mocking that out is going to require mocking libdrm
[08:20] <RAOF> Specifically the handful of ioctls dealing with modesetting.
[08:20] <pitti> ah, so they are directly poking the hardware, not reading /sys/class/drm ?
[08:20] <RAOF> Correct.
[08:21] <pitti> RAOF: intercepting ioctls is already on my table
[08:21] <RAOF> You can quirk an edid by writing to the firmware-ish file, but that's not going to help if the output is not detected as connected, or if you want to fake, say, an HDMI output.
[08:21] <pitti> xvfb doesn't seem to have xrandr capability, so I guess we need to start the real X.org under some kind of dummy driver
[08:22] <pitti> RAOF: so I guess as we have to use a dummy driver anyway, that one coudl just report a set of fake monitors?
[08:22] <RAOF> Absolutely.
[08:23] <RAOF> That'd be a simple extension to xf86-video-dummy
[08:23] <pitti> right, that woudl have been my next question; is xserver-xorg-video-dummy the right driver for this kind of thing?
[08:23] <RAOF> ¹: For sufficiently boring boilerplaity values of “simple”
[08:24] <RAOF> I would think so, yes; it's pretty much what you're after - a no-hardware fake graphics driver.
[08:25] <pitti> do you know if that's sufficiently capable to run unity on?
[08:27] <pitti> RAOF: ok, thanks so far; I'll play around with this, see how to start X.org with the dummy driver, and where to plug in RR bits
[08:27] <soren> pitti: Funny, I looked into this just last night. What specifically are you wanting to test?
[08:27] <RAOF> If unity can run with software rendering it can run on dummy.
[08:28] <pitti> RAOF: oh, another question -- how does X.org detect the driver to use?
[08:28] <RAOF> Magic!
[08:29] <pitti> soren: I have no specific test right now; I want to evaluate how we can set up various "multiple monitor" scenarios and then test xrandr and unity within that
[08:29] <RAOF> pitti: It's got a pciid→driver switch statement buried in the bowels of it.
[08:29] <pitti> RAOF: right, I meant, does it again do its own hardware poking, or just iterate through /sys or /proc?
[08:30] <RAOF> It uses libpcithingamabob; I think that does /sys probing, from memory.
[08:30] <pitti> ah, libpciaccess0
[08:30] <RAOF> pitti: This *might* be superceded by the udev code, new in 1.13 (or 1.12); I've not looked at the driver matching code since that landed.
[08:30] <RAOF> pitti: Yeah, that one.
[08:30] <pitti> splendid, thanks
[08:31] <pitti> we can easily mock bits in /sys
[08:31] <pitti> soren: so what did you look at? starting X.org with the dummy driver?
[08:31] <pitti> RAOF: thanks for your help!
[08:31] <soren> pitti: Ok, I can't help much then. I was looking at slightly higher layers, but if you wat to be able to test xrandr itself, that's a different story.
[08:32] <seb128> hey desktopers
[08:32] <pitti> it's a seb!
[08:32] <pitti> bonjour mon ami
[08:32] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:33] <soren> pitti: I was looking into adding some automatic monitor switching magic to XFCE and wondered how I could test it.
[08:33] <pitti> soren: doesn't that also require faking monitors?
[08:33] <soren> pitti: Gnome has its own abstraction for it, which should be easily mockable if you just want to test the unity bits.
[08:33] <pitti> in libgnome-desktop, yes
[08:34] <soren> Right.
[08:34] <seb128> pitti, hey, how are you?
[08:34] <seb128> didrocks, lut ;-)
[08:34] <pitti> seb128: my cold bounced back, so could be better, but ok for now
[08:35] <pitti> how are you?
[08:35] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[08:35] <pitti> soren: I thought that would just be a rather straight interface to xrandr
[08:35] <soren> pitti: I didn't actually write any code. I just looked at what it would take. I think I'd just have faked the "something changed" event and checked that it used the correct, new config. In unit tests, that is. I suspect you're doing something more integration test-ish?
[08:35] <pitti> soren: i. e. no file interface in between which you could intercept?
[08:35] <pitti> soren: ah, ok
[08:36] <soren> pitti: Both Gnome and XFCE uses the xrandr library. I suppose xrandr must as well. Perhaps that's easier to deal with?
[08:36] <pitti> soren: yeah, ideally we could start an X server (with -dummy or even xvfb, but that doesn't seem to work), run unity or gnome-shell or whatever in it, then change the mocked monitors, and verify that it adjusts accordingly
[08:37] <pitti> soren: that's the bit I'm currently investigating :)
[08:37] <pitti> soren: everything that uses /sys properly to detect hardware is easy to mock
[08:37] <pitti> everything that does its own probing with poking ports and ioctls is much harder, of course
[08:38] <pitti> but I guess X.org needs to work on more systems than just linux
[08:38] <soren> pitti: Oh, what I meant was a mock implementation of libxrandr itself, not the primitives that xrandr uses/manipulates.
[08:38] <pitti> ah
[08:38] <soren> pitti: I don't know if that'll be more or less work, really. I'm just throwing the idea out there.
[08:39] <pitti> soren: well, xrandr itself is pretty shallow
[08:39] <pitti> soren: it's little more than poking commands into the X socket
[08:39] <pitti> the actual detection and implementation of the commands happens on the driver side
[08:39] <pitti> (shallow from the mocking perspective, not from the logic, of cours)
[08:40] <soren> Do you mean libxrandr? Or /usr/bin/xrandr ?
[08:40] <pitti> both really
[08:40] <pitti> on the client side, xrandr has no hardware specific bits
[08:40] <soren> Right.
[08:41] <pitti> it just talks to the X socket, no to sysfs, ioctls, etc.
[08:41] <soren> Right.
[08:42] <soren> This seems like a good place to hook in to me.
[08:42] <soren> ..but you naturally understand much better what it is that you want to test. :)
[08:43] <soren> That saves you completely from having to think about hardware. I like to not think about hardware :)
[08:43] <pitti> indeed intercepting it at the X protocol level would be a lot simpler
[08:44] <pitti> I'm not actually interested in the sever-side layers; mostly in that applications and the desktop DTRT in various multiple-monitor scenarios
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:02] <Laney> hey
[09:04] <mvo> hey didrocks, happy new year to you as well!
[09:04] <didrocks> thanks ;)
[09:05] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, Laney
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, Laney, how are you?
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> hi mvo, happy new year :)
[09:05] <Laney> striving away
[09:05] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: good good! yourself? :-)
[09:05] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: regular ping about my thunderbird stalling issue btw :p
[09:06] <mvo> hey chrisccoulson! happy new year to you as well :)
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, tired. both daughters decided that they were far too cool to sleep last night
[09:07] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, Laney
[09:07] <seb128> mvo, oh, a mvo! happy new year!
[09:07]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[09:07] <seb128> mvo, how are you?
[09:07] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: argh ;)
[09:07] <mvo> seb128: !!! happy new year
[09:07]  * mvo hugs seb128
[09:08] <mvo> seb128: I'm good, thanks, all very new, like I get up at 6 in the morning and commute to a office, a really strange experience. but I can hack on the train, so thats great
[09:08] <didrocks> mvo: how far are you from the university?
[09:09] <seb128> mvo, 6, man ... I decided to try to start working at reasonable time and be at the computer at 9am so I wake up between 8 and 9 and I already find that difficult :p
[09:09] <mvo> didrocks: its about ~35min by train plus a short bus trip
[09:09] <didrocks> seems reasonable :)
[09:09] <mvo> seb128: haha
[09:09] <mvo> didrocks: yeah, its not too bad
[09:09] <mvo> didrocks: but quite a change
[09:09] <didrocks> yeah, I can imagine :)
[09:10] <Laney> seeing /real people/!
[09:10] <didrocks> Laney: do they exist? I keep hearing from that, but never conducted that to facts
[09:10] <mvo> Laney: yes! out of my cave. I wasn't aware of how many people there are actually in the real -world ;)
[09:11] <mvo> didrocks: I have empiric evidence of that now! at least here in my part of the world they do exist :)
[09:11] <didrocks> 10:05:56      didrocks | chrisccoulson: regular ping about my thunderbird stalling issue btw :p
[09:11] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I think you missed it ^
[09:11] <seb128> mvo, see, they were right when they put you in the "dog" category back then (was it in plymouth?) ... you like people after all ;-)
[09:11] <didrocks> mvo: waow! amazing :-)
[09:11] <didrocks> should be a German-only thing. I refuse to believe it! :-)
[09:12] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, i've not looked at any thunderbird stuff since i got back ;)
[09:12] <chrisccoulson> (thanks to firefox bugs)
[09:12] <mvo> seb128: lol
[09:12] <mvo> seb128: indeed, I think that was around the plymouth time - the funny thing is that my first thought about plymouth was the bootscreen, not the conference we had there :P
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> mvo, i don't believe real people exist. you must provide evidence :)
[09:13] <Laney> they're the people that bring my internet shopping deliveries, right?
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> actually, i think i saw a person walk past my window one day
[09:14] <mvo> chrisccoulson: haha, I can take pictures from the cafeteria - there are two kinds, man *and* woman
[09:14] <mvo> Laney: lol
[09:16] <seb128> mvo, lol, same here, I had to check on google if that spelling for the city was the same :p
[09:21] <mvo> unity is crashing btw on my dual monitor fglrx setup :P but I will look into that later, gtg
[10:07] <pitti> RAOF: hm, is there a replacement for -nohwaccess ? (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Rootless)
[10:10] <pitti> RAOF: nevermind, apparently not needed with using the dummy driver
[10:26] <pitti> didrocks: do you happen to know whether it's possible to run two unitys at the same time as an user/
[10:26] <pitti> didrocks: I tried "DISPLAY=:1 dbus-launch unity", and while that works, that still kills/restarts my "main" unity
[10:26] <didrocks> pitti: hum, I doubt it, first compiz is checking there is no other window compositor running
[10:26] <pitti> DISPLAY=:1 compiz seems to work fine
[10:26] <pitti> didrocks: well, my real session is on display :0
[10:26] <didrocks> ah, another DISPLAY
[10:26] <pitti> I tried the dbus-launch, but that doesn't seem to help either
[10:27] <didrocks> you have some services that you will need to dbus-launch as well
[10:27] <didrocks> but that shouldn't kill as it happens for you here
[10:28] <didrocks>     Window currentWmSnOwner = XGetSelectionOwner (dpy, wmSnAtom);
[10:28] <didrocks> this is the detection of the other compiz running
[10:29] <didrocks> it seems to be per dpy
[10:29] <didrocks> pitti: do you know if at least, compiz is trying to load its plugin?
[10:29] <pitti> didrocks: they actually do run in parallel, just that the original compiz restarts
[10:29] <pitti> didrocks: yes, that all seems to work fine
[10:29] <didrocks> pitti: well, unity is running --replace by default
[10:29] <pitti> DISPLAY=:1 compiz
[10:29] <pitti> flawless even with the same dbus
[10:30] <didrocks> even ok, so it's really unity, I don't see any reason off hand
[10:30] <pitti> didrocks: ok, nevermind; not a biggie for now
[10:30] <didrocks> but as you are stealing the unity-panel-service dbus connection, maybe that impact
[10:30] <didrocks> (it's dbus activated, so you need 2 of them)
[10:30] <pitti> that was my first guess, but with dbus-launch it has its own private bus
[10:31] <didrocks> oh right, so you have a second one running spawn by the second bus
[10:31] <didrocks> hum
[10:31] <pitti> anyway, my main exercise was to run unity under an user X.org with the dummy driver, which seems to work
[10:31] <didrocks> sweet :)
[10:32] <pitti> I'll try to do a screenshot
[10:32] <didrocks> that would be interesting :)
[10:38] <pitti> awesome, that works nicely
[10:56] <didrocks> Laney: do you want to have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~logan/ubuntu/raring/gst-plugins-good1.0/debian-merge/+merge/141136?
[10:57] <didrocks> as you won the privilege to be the gst maintainer :)
[10:57]  * Laney screams
[10:57] <Laney> yeah, sure :P
[10:57] <didrocks> Laney: webkit, gst, what would be next? :p
[10:57] <didrocks> will*
[10:57] <didrocks> thanks Laney ;)
[10:58] <smspillaz> desrt: hey you about ?
[10:59] <smspillaz> desrt: I'm generating an introspection binary and it hangs on my_thing_get_type () inside of g_once_init_enter, was wondering if there's an obvious solution that I missed
[11:01] <xclaesse> seb128, is it possible to upload devhelp 3.6.1 in quantal?
[11:01] <xclaesse> seb128, it fix an annoying bug that I cannot do ctr-c to copy text
[11:02] <xclaesse> IIRC that's the only fix in .1 release
[11:02] <seb128> xclaesse, you pinged me about that in december
[11:02] <seb128> xclaesse, I got it uploaded: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devhelp/3.6.1-0ubuntu0.1
[11:02] <seb128> xclaesse, it didn't go from proposed to updates because nobody confirmed that the bug is fixed, if you want to do it please comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devhelp/+bug/1079694
[11:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079694 in devhelp (Ubuntu Quantal) "3.6.1 stable update, fix ctrl-C copy" [Low,Fix committed]
[11:03] <xclaesse> seb128, ahhh, ok. I though you forgot about it :)
[11:03] <seb128> xclaesse, ;-)
[11:03] <xclaesse> seb128, ok I'll test that right now
[11:03] <seb128> xclaesse, just enable quantal-proposed and get it from there
[11:04] <seb128> xclaesse, thanks
[11:14] <xclaesse> seb128, cannot get to software source settings
[11:14] <xclaesse> it does nothing when I click on it
[11:15] <xclaesse> seb128, I tried to just dpkg -i the deb from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devhelp/3.6.1-0ubuntu0.1/+build/4024122 but it's missing -common package
[11:21] <xclaesse> seb128, http://pastebin.com/qbD1ALKD
[11:21] <xclaesse> python3....
[12:20]  * Laney requests the Archive Gods consider promotion of farstream-0.2
[12:20] <Laney> requires gstreamer1.0-nice too
[12:59] <Mirv> I wonder if anyone has tested grilo yet? related to bug #1035701
[12:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1035701 in totem (Ubuntu) "grilo plugins should be enabled in Totem" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035701
[12:59] <Mirv> I've found myself missing UPnP/DLNA support
[13:00] <Mirv> just a mental note partly to myself...
[13:21] <tjaalton> requesting a new merge of cairo, with the egl backend enabled
[13:22] <tjaalton> it's been enabled on debian all the time, no mention on the changelog why it's disabled on ubuntu
[13:22] <tjaalton> weston would like to have it
[13:23] <tjaalton> ok, ricotz explained why :)
[13:25]  * Sweetshark is churning away on precise patches ...
[13:26] <ricotz> Laney, hi
[13:27] <ricotz> Laney, while you were looking into enabling wayland-backend, would it be much trouble if you add --enable-broadway-backend too (gdk lib size will increase by like 90kb)
[13:28] <ricotz> Laney, be aware of the backend default choice which might need to be patch in 3.6.x
[13:35] <larsu> attente, good morning
[13:35] <attente> larsu, hi
[13:35] <larsu> attente, I can't reproduce your crash :)
[13:35] <larsu> but I do get the same warning about the handler id
[13:36] <larsu> anything specific I need to do to trigger it?
[13:36] <attente> the warning itself is the crash
[13:36] <attente> totally kills it for me
[13:36] <larsu> interesting. Are you running with G_DEBUG=fatal-warnings or something?
[13:36] <larsu> it just continues running for me
[13:37] <attente> do the menus work for you?
[13:37] <larsu> yes, except for the emoticon menu
[13:37] <larsu> I guess because they are custom widgets?
[13:37] <attente> probably
[13:39] <larsu> actually the menu works, but the images aren't displayed
[13:40] <attente> is there a G_MENU_ATTRIBUTE for menu item images?
[13:40] <larsu> not upstream, no. We've been using x-canonical-icon for the indicators, but that probably doesn't work yet for the appmenu
[13:41] <larsu> by the way: what are you patching in indicator-appmenu?
[13:41] <attente> it's just an extra action group with the "unity." namespace
[13:41] <larsu> ah, good idea
[13:41] <attente> so that we don't have to go through the trouble of grabbing the old action group and merging it into ours
[13:42] <larsu> makes sense. And the action names are simply the labels of the menu items?
[13:42] <attente> all desrt's idea
[13:42] <attente> in general, yes
[13:42] <attente> but if a GtkAction is available, we use that instead
[13:43] <larsu> wow, this thing is much cleverer than I thought :)
[13:43] <larsu> hm, that warning appears (twice) when I receive a message. But not every time...
[13:44] <attente> haha, it's been in the works for a long time now, so i would hope so...
[13:45] <attente> anyways, i'm still trying to fix the package again...
[14:09]  * Sweetshark is down to 5 patches for precise backports.
[14:19] <ritz> seb128 heya, sorry for the delay. done - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/1026442
[14:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1026442 in pidgin (Ubuntu) "Buddy pounce - send message window too short" [Low,Confirmed]
[14:37] <smspillaz> y
[14:37] <smspillaz> whoops :)
[14:41] <seb128> ritz, hey, ok, thanks
[14:41] <seb128> attente, hey, need packaging help there?
[14:42] <attente> seb128, things seem to be working fine here, but thanks :)
[14:43] <seb128> great, well done!
[14:43] <larsu> attente, this bug is super tricky :-/
[14:43] <ritz> seb128 is it fine if I post the SRU notes to priv lp
[14:43] <ritz> or this has to be to pub lp
[14:44] <larsu> empathy does some crazy stuff with that menu (it's the Contact menu), but it appears like it's nothing illegal :)
[14:44] <attente> larsu yeah... don't worry about it too much...
[14:44] <attente> larsu: what is it doing exactly?
[14:44] <seb128> ritz, better public, otherwise the SRU team and the verification team will not be able to read those
[14:45] <ritz> okay, cool
[14:46] <larsu> attente, it sets the submenu for the contact, a qdata (that it doesn't seem to use) and connects to notify::visible for no apparent reason
[14:46] <larsu> attente, http://git.gnome.org/browse/empathy/tree/src/empathy-chat-window.c#n603
[14:47] <larsu> attente, I tried creating the same circumstances from a test script, but didn't manage to get the same warning
[14:50] <attente> larsu, your test script also switches the submenu?
[14:50] <larsu> attente, yes
[14:50] <attente> huh.
[14:51] <gQuigs> hello there
[14:51] <gQuigs> anyone know what the status of the LibreOffice ppa is?
[14:52] <gQuigs> it looks like 3.6.1-rc2 never got built, and hasn't been updated since
[14:52] <gQuigs> https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=precise
[14:54] <seb128> gQuigs, hey, check with Sweetshark, he's maintaining libreoffice for Ubuntu
[14:54] <gQuigs> thanks seb128, ping Sweetshark
[14:55] <Sweetshark> pong
[14:55] <Sweetshark> gQuigs: you have 5 minutes, then Ill be in a TDF board of directors call
[14:55] <Sweetshark> ;)
[14:56] <Sweetshark> eh, tricky. first writing the content, then the ping.
[14:56] <gQuigs> thanks Sweetshark, I was just wondering what the status of the PPA is?.. it looks like 3.6.1-rc2 failed in someway
[14:58] <Sweetshark> yes, it seems ricotz did that. I asked him to always build in a separate ppa, but IIRC he ignored that here because it was the first 3.6 upload.
[14:58] <Sweetshark> still would have been better
[14:59]  * Sweetshark checks the buildlog
[15:00] <Sweetshark> seems like there are deps missing on precise. for the specific one a first workaround would be to disable the mediawiki extenion to be build.
[15:01] <Sweetshark> gQuigs: https://launchpad.net/~bdcomp <- he is currently working on backporting LO to precise, but he still has a lot to learn, so it still might take a while.
[15:01] <Sweetshark> anyway: gone for now, call ;)
[15:02] <gQuigs> Sweetshark: thanks!
[15:04] <Sweetshark> fscking timezone, was off the mark by one hour. anyway, I think you got what you needed for a start ;)
[15:06] <Sweetshark> gQuigs: https://launchpad.net/~bdcomp/+archive/backports/+packages <- there is a package building in there. note the big, fat "DO NOT USE IT" on the ppa though ;)
[15:07] <gQuigs> I did notice that... :)
[15:09] <larsu> attente, something tries to disconnect the handler twice. This might mean we have a circular menu structure somewhere...
[15:09] <attente> ok
[15:10] <attente> but the handler is on the UnityGtkMenuShell, right?
[15:10] <attente> not the GtkMenuShell, i believe
[15:11] <attente> er... sorry
[15:11] <larsu> yes, UnityGtkMenuShell is the GMenuModel, right?
[15:11] <attente> right, but actually the exported version of that
[15:11] <larsu> yes
[15:13] <attente> i'm just fixing that non-portable linking warning right now
[15:13] <larsu> attente, actually, the handler is on a UnityGtkMenuSection
[15:14] <larsu> oh, wait, I think I'm mistaken: the handler isn't disconnected twice
[15:14] <larsu> I got confused by dual debug printfs :)
[15:14] <attente> hehe
[15:22] <larsu> attente, so its much easier than this... just a object_unref too many. The question is: where? :P
[15:23] <attente> larsu, could it just be that the section is disappearing without the disconnect code knowing about it?
[15:24] <larsu> attente, well, the disconnect code has a reference on it, so it shouldn't disappear
[15:24] <larsu> but it definitely does, I put a weak ref on it
[15:24] <attente> :S
[15:24] <larsu> ya
[15:24] <larsu> :)
[15:24] <attente> ok, haha, thanks :)
[15:39] <larsu> attente, got it.
[15:39] <larsu> phew
[15:39] <Laney> seb128 / didrocks: Direct ping regarding the ^^^ promotion request ;-) farstream-0.2 (source) and gstreamer1.0-nice (binary from source already in main)
[15:39] <Laney> if you have time
[15:39] <attente> larsu: what was it?
[15:39] <seb128> Laney, didrocks: can do
[15:39] <seb128> looking
[15:39] <Laney> merci
[15:39] <seb128> de rien, sorry for missing it earlier
[15:39] <didrocks> thanks seb128 :)
[15:39] <seb128> yw ;-)
[15:40] <larsu> attente, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1513350/
[15:40] <larsu> ah wait, that's your own function
[15:41] <larsu> Your log says "Run dispose to break cycles."
[15:41] <seb128> Laney, done
[15:41] <Laney> great
[15:42] <Laney> will upload empathy when that publishes then
[15:42] <larsu> attente, I'm pretty sure you shouldn't call g_object_run_dispose in this case
[15:42] <larsu> but it's a question for desrt, really
[15:42] <larsu> do you remember which problem this solved?
[15:43] <attente> larsu, i added that to break the ref cycle between shell and section when the section disappears
[15:43] <attente> or is supposed to disappear
[15:44] <larsu> hm, I'm not sure I know enough about your code to give good advice here :)
[15:44] <attente> but i thought the problem was that g_object_unref was getting called too many times
[15:45] <attente> but if the fix works, you're probably right
[15:50] <larsu> attente, hm. I'm not sure I fully understand it yet
[15:50] <larsu> (after what you just said)
[15:50] <attente> actually, i'm having a hard time understanding why it would fix the problem too...
[15:55] <desrt> smspillaz: using only DEFINE_TYPE macros?
[15:55] <desrt> smspillaz: doing anything odd from class_init() functions?
[15:55] <desrt> if you're using the stock get_type() from G_DEFINE_TYPE then the usual cause of this is that you're doing something bad in some sort of class_init
[15:56] <larsu> desrt, are weak refs notified on dispose?
[15:56] <desrt> otherwise, it could be an obscure race that I know we have in multi-threaded situations... would be strange to see that in the go-i scanner, though
[15:56] <desrt> unless, as above, you're calling weird stuff from class_init() :)
[15:56] <larsu> desrt, as in, if attente calls g_object_dispose manually, will weak refs be notified?
[15:56] <desrt> larsu: yes and no
[15:56] <desrt> larsu: no.
[15:56] <desrt> but they are notified before dispose() is called automatically after the last ref drops
[15:56] <larsu> I have a stack trace that looks like it
[15:56] <larsu> hm, weird
[15:56] <desrt> well
[15:57] <desrt> dispose() often results in the handler calling unref() on a lot of stuff
[15:57] <desrt> which in turn could obviously cause a weak notify
[15:57] <larsu> yeah but it's on the same object
[15:57] <desrt> hmm
[15:57] <desrt> odd
[15:57] <larsu> cycles?
[15:58] <desrt> i doubt it
[15:58] <desrt> read the trace...
[15:58] <desrt> then read the source :)
[15:58] <larsu> ya
[15:59] <larsu> desrt, in any case, running dispose manually is probably not a good idea, is it?
[15:59] <larsu> I mean, what if other objects still have references...
[15:59] <desrt> in my opinion dispose is completely stupid
[15:59] <larsu> I know
[15:59] <larsu> but that doesn't answer my question :)
[16:03] <attente> running dispose is supposed to be an idempotent operation, right?
[16:03] <larsu> yes
[16:11] <attente> desrt, want to meet an old friend for lunch today?
[16:12] <desrt> is he swiss?
[16:12] <attente> no, that's on the 19th, btw
[16:12] <desrt> cool :)
[16:13] <desrt> i'm probably up for it as long as the location is reasonable
[16:13] <desrt> although it would probably be nice to know who it is first
[16:13] <attente> mehdi
[16:13] <attente> king and bay
[16:13] <desrt> for sure
[16:13] <attente> 12:30
[16:13] <attente> sorry about the short notice
[16:13] <desrt> i still have a sworn pact to murder the two of you for what you did to the se3f03 course webpage
[16:14] <attente> hahah
[16:14] <desrt> it will be very convenient to see both of you in one spot
[16:21] <desrt> well... this is an interesting development
[16:33] <dobey> seb128, didrocks: hey, just replied on bug #1047606 ; do i need to fix and attach new files to the bug, or wait until it's accepted and just upload a new revision?
[16:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1047606 in Ubuntu Raring "[needs-packaging] ubuntuone-client-data" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1047606
[16:38] <seb128> dobey, new revision will do
[16:49] <larsu> attente, sorry, I was distracted for a bit, but I have the real solution
[16:49] <larsu> for which I had to go into gobject.c
[16:49] <larsu> not nice
[16:50] <attente> what is it?
[16:50] <larsu> so g_object_dispose calls g_signal_handlers_destroy
[16:50] <larsu> pretty simple :)
[16:51] <larsu> I think the real fix here is to not call dispose. If you're worried about cyclic references, use a weak ref on one side
[16:52] <attente> huh, ok, i'll give it a shot :)
[16:52] <larsu> or no reference, if you can be sure that the section's shell pointer is only valid as long as the shell also has a ref on the section
[16:52] <larsu> the latter is probably the easier solution in your case
[16:52] <larsu> the same goes for "items" btw, dispose is called on them too
[16:54] <attente> larsu, i think you're right, there's no reason for these to have a strong reference to their parents, no reason i can remember right now at least
[16:55] <attente> larsu, thanks for your help once again :)
[16:55] <larsu> attente, no problem :)
[17:05] <desrt> attente: good general rule: don't call dispose
[17:05] <desrt> if you're trying to do that you're probably trying to do something wrong
[17:07] <attente> desrt: is there a proper way to break a ref cycle without using dispose?
[17:07] <desrt> don't create the cycle
[17:08] <attente> lesson learned
[17:08] <attente> :)
[17:28] <desrt> attente: seriously, though
[17:29] <desrt> reference cycles are an annoying hazard of refcounted OO (which you're surely aware of from your obj-C upbringing)
[17:29] <desrt> techniques used to break them are workarounds and it's usually possible to just avoid the cycle in the first place
[17:29] <desrt> through more careful design of your object relationships
[17:31] <desrt> i often find when i'm in a situation where A depends on B and B depends on A then at least one of them could be split into two separate classes (let's split B into B and B2) such that B depends on A and B2 and A depends only on B2 (ie: B is the public-facing part and B2 is some internal utility)
[17:31] <desrt> that way B2 stays for as long as either A or B are around but safely goes away when both are gone, and there are no cycles
[18:24] <cyphermox> is it supposed to be best to put .vapi files under the versioned /usr/share/vala-0.XX/vapi/  or the unversioned directory /usr/share/vala/vapi/ ?
[18:34] <ricotz> cyphermox, unversioned
[18:35] <ricotz> cyphermox, the versioned directory is exclusive for the vapis shipped with vala itself
[18:35] <cyphermox> ack
[18:36] <cyphermox> is that described anywhere in policy or something? because it's not really obvious
[18:37] <ricotz> not sure if it is written somewhere, but it is common sense for upstream shipped bindings
[19:12] <bcurtiswx> AlanBell, who am i supposed to talk with about getting meetingology in loco channels ? you're the person who set the topic as nobody else seems to ever exist in the scribes channel
[19:14] <AlanBell> bcurtiswx: what channel?
[19:15] <bcurtiswx> AlanBell, #ubuntu-us-dc
[19:15] <AlanBell> done
[19:15] <bcurtiswx> AlanBell, thanks :)
[19:15] <AlanBell> np
[19:22]  * didrocks finished to debug something, time for evening!
[19:22] <bcurtiswx> nite didrocks
[19:22] <didrocks> bye bcurtiswx ;)
[19:39] <ricotz> jbicha, hi :)
[19:39] <ricotz> syncing harfbuzz leads to some problems while graphite2 isnt multiarched :\
[19:43] <ricotz> i guess graphite2 should be synced from exp too (isnt multiarched yet though)
[20:27] <jbicha> ricotz: ok, the exp. graphite2 has a soname bump so maybe we should just wait for multiarch?
[20:29] <jbicha> are you actually using harfbuzz for anything yet?
[20:35] <ricotz> jbicha, syncing and transitioning it doesnt interfere with a later multiarch enablement
[20:35] <ricotz> jbicha, yes, the new pango uses it
[20:36] <ricotz> so does the whole gnome stack therefore
[20:37] <micahg> ricotz: well, it's potentially rebuilding the reverse dependencies twice
[20:37] <ricotz> micahg, hmm, i dont think so
[20:38] <ricotz> but multiarch first is fine too
[20:38] <micahg> oh, is graphite2 already multiarched?
[20:38] <ricotz> no
[20:38] <micahg> right, so, the SONAME bump is one rebuild, and multiarching is potentially another depending on what paths are used where
[20:40] <ricotz> micahg, the library look up shouldn't break when it is moved from "lib" to "lib/.../"
[20:40] <ricotz> or does it
[20:40] <ricotz> ?
[20:41] <micahg> ricotz: that depends on what the package is doing during build (binaries might continue to work, but the package might FTBFS)
[20:42] <ricotz> i see
[20:42] <micahg> binaries could break as well if it's doing something silly like manually checking paths
[20:42] <ricotz> alright
[20:45] <jbicha> ricotz: harfbuzz is still optional for latest pango, right?
[20:47] <ricotz> jbicha, no, hard dep
[20:48] <ricotz> https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing/+sourcepub/2919028/+listing-archive-extra
[20:48] <ricotz> jbicha, ^
[20:49] <jbicha> are we going to try for pango 1.32 in raring?
[20:49] <ricotz> in gnome3-staging at least since it is a hard-dep of gtk+
[21:09] <bcurtiswx> interesting, todays removal of libat4 wants to remove skype
[21:09] <bcurtiswx> libqt4*
[21:10] <bcurtiswx> well, nix that all the i386 parts of qt4
[21:13] <chrisccoulson_> lol @ bug 1097940
[21:13] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1097940 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "gsettings" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1097940
[21:14] <jbicha> ricotz: actually that package built fine if I removed libharfbuz-dev from the build-depends
[21:25] <ricotz> jbicha, hmm, i doubt that
[21:26] <ricotz> the ppa package adds back the x backend to preserve backwards compat
[21:26] <ricotz> try to disable the "readd_pangox.patch"
[21:28] <ricotz> the build should fail badly anyway
[21:31] <jbicha> ricotz: some day you might do changelogs ;)
[21:32] <ricotz> i know :\
[21:33] <ricotz> jbicha, btw, the chances are good gjs will need mozjs 1.8.8 if we see a release
[21:33] <ricotz> chrisccoulson_, hi ^
[21:34] <jbicha> ricotz: ok, for raring we'll be stuck with gnome-shell 3.6 since gnome-control-center/settings-daemon 3.8 won't be ready for the gnome3 ppa
[21:35] <ricotz> chrisccoulson_, not sure if you are following the js-standalone hassle, but i was looking into snapshots from the ESR17 branch https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/staging/+sourcepub/2909894/+listing-archive-extra
[21:35] <ricotz> jbicha, yeah, that was foreseeable, that is what gnome3-ppa is for ;)
[22:31] <desrt>  blehhhh
[22:31] <desrt> yay for dentists
[22:31] <attente> cavities?
[22:31] <desrt> ya
[22:31] <desrt> well, only one
[22:32] <attente> pretty good
[22:32] <desrt> first one in as long as i can remember -- more or less since my early teens, i think
[22:32] <desrt> maybe even longer
[22:32] <attente> haven't been to one in a year and a half
[22:32] <desrt> i hadn't gone in a very very long time
[22:33] <desrt> but apparently my obsessive brushing/flossing paid off in that time


[08:23] <Dro> Mornings guys
[08:30] <elacheche> Morning guys!
[08:30] <elacheche> davlefou: Salut!
[08:31] <davlefou> elacheche, Bonjour!
[08:31] <davlefou> et Bonjour au autre!
[08:31] <elacheche> nzoueidi: Finally! No more Unity x) I hope that by 20.04 we'll drop systemd too x)
[08:31] <davlefou> Tu va la conférence de la semaine?
[08:32] <elacheche> FNL?
[08:32] <nzoueidi> \o/ elacheche That news really made my day :D But in the other hand I am wondering what will happen to the Ubuntu GNOME flavor..
[08:33] <elacheche> Oui! Mais les organisateurs ne répodent pas à mes questions :/
[08:33] <davlefou> Front National Linux?
[08:33] <elacheche> FESTIVAL NUMÉRIQUE LIBRE
[08:34] <elacheche> nzoueidi: Good for the Ubuntu Gnome Devs! I'm already seeing them in my mind joining Canonical as employees x)
[08:34] <davlefou> Aussi...
[08:35] <davlefou> et donc, qui y va et qui s'est inscrit pour des conférences?
[08:35] <elacheche> davlefou: I see a mail about this, let me check it 1st
[08:35] <elacheche> I'm sick, and my eyes hearts, I didn't use my laptop by night for days
[08:57] <elacheche> nzoueidi: /r/ubuntu is on fire because of that announcement x)
[08:58] <nzoueidi> yep :D especially LinuxAC x)
[09:00] <elacheche> there is a LinuxAC subreddit?
[09:07] <praisethemoon> good morning fellas
[09:08] <elacheche> Hey praisethemoon
[09:09] <elacheche> nzoueidi: Wait a sec.. So now.. Ubuntu will move on to Wayland instead of Mir..
[09:16] <elacheche> https://github.com/saitoha/libsixel
[09:16] <u-la-la> [ GitHub - saitoha/libsixel: The new standard of SIXEL development ] - https://github.com
[09:30] <nzoueidi> yep elacheche that's the 2nd surprising part
[09:31] <nzoueidi> o/ praisethemoon
[09:31] <praisethemoon> \o/
[09:34] <nzoueidi> praisethemoon: You are a C/C++ developer, I am trying to understand the architecture of LibreOffice; need to patch some things :s
[09:34] <nzoueidi> Have you any good/prefered resources to master specially C++, that would be very helpful :D
[09:34] <praisethemoon> isn't libreoffice java?
[09:35] <praisethemoon> well not C++
[09:35] <praisethemoon> it is horrible and painful
[09:35] <praisethemoon> jk
[09:35] <praisethemoon> But it's no easy task :/
[09:35] <praisethemoon> i suggest starting with C
[09:36] <nzoueidi> I know :/ yep I am good with C but didn't contribute to any open source project based on C++ :(
[09:36] <praisethemoon> alright then
[09:36] <praisethemoon> our dearly beleved developpez.net xD
[09:37] <praisethemoon> has some good tutorials :)
[09:37] <praisethemoon> https://cpp.developpez.com/cours/
[09:37] <u-la-la> [ Les meilleurs cours et tutoriels pour apprendre la programmation C++ ] - https://cpp.developpez.com
[09:37] <praisethemoon> the thing is; C++ is changing incredibly fast
[09:38] <praisethemoon> so you can't just say C++ any more,
[09:38] <praisethemoon> C++11? 17?
[09:38] <praisethemoon> :/
[09:38] <nzoueidi> Yep :( will take a look, ty :D
[09:57] <praisethemoon> you're welcome nzoueidi and come pm if u need any help :)
[09:57]  * elacheche hides
[09:57] <praisethemoon> elacheche, you need to learn assembly
[09:58] <praisethemoon> just for the lolz
[09:58] <praisethemoon> :D
[09:58] <u-la-la> praisethemoon: :D
[09:59] <elacheche> praisethemoon: I need to learn too many thing, I reached a point that because of that I waste all day thinking what should I do 1st and end the day without doing anything at all..
[10:00] <praisethemoon> welcome to my life
[10:01] <elacheche> praisethemoon: That's not new to me.. I was entering this kind of loops and get out of them every now and then since 2010.. x(
[10:01]  * elacheche is sick, excuse his bad english and snetences..
[10:06] <nzoueidi> elacheche: praisethemoon I have the same habit, and when getting involved in a such big project, I realise that I wasted my time failbooking :'(
[10:06] <praisethemoon> u boys lack motivations
[10:07] <praisethemoon> pavlushka, we need a motivation bot!
[10:07] <praisethemoon> .motivate elacheche
[10:07] <praisethemoon> .inspire nzoueidi
[10:07] <Dro> .kill praisethemoon
[10:07] <elacheche> Lucky me, I don't use Failbook anymore.. But even with that, I managed to develop an other time wasting behaviour with a good variety of websites x(
[10:07] <nzoueidi> For that reason, I have deactivated my fb account x)
[10:09]  * pavlushka looking into the script :p
[10:09] <nzoueidi> elacheche: just for records, I have 3 LibreOffice issues and 2 Thunderbird issues that need to be patched, and lastly a 24 system/networking issues that need to be closed..
[10:09]  * nzoueidi runs away far awayyy screaming..
[10:09] <elacheche> x)
[10:10] <pavlushka> nzoueidi: may I know the LivreOffice issues? coz I am having some too
[10:11] <pavlushka> copy pasting table contents from one to other
[10:11] <nzoueidi> pavlushka: they were reported years ago..
[10:11] <nzoueidi> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=570914#c65
[10:11] <u-la-la> [ 570914 - When working with IMAP attachments are sometimes corrupt (if base64 encoded part, data of "This body part will be downloaded on demand." is base64 decoded upon save and 27 bytes file is creat[...] ] - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org
[10:11] <nzoueidi> and https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345832
[10:11] <u-la-la> [ 345832 - download binary IMAP attachments on demand ONLY! ] - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org
[10:12] <nzoueidi> Aw :( I pasted the TB issues
[10:13] <pavlushka> and in impress, it crashes all the time when adding or tuning the slides
[10:15] <pavlushka> nzoueidi: and the other one? that's 2 of the LibreOffice issues
[10:16] <nzoueidi> pavlushka: not about LibreOffice softwares (LO Writer, Calc and Impress).  This is the secret of success, spire praisethemoon!
[10:42] <praisethemoon> u-la-la, you are wisdom itself
[10:44] <pavlushka> ok, I ma dropping the smiley auto-reply module of u-la-la , kinda annoying
[10:45] <pavlushka> XD
[10:51] <praisethemoon> pavlushka, +1 ^^
[10:51] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: but the slap module is still there :p
[10:56] <praisethemoon> .slap nzoueidi
[10:56]  * u-la-la kicks nzoueidi
[10:56] <praisethemoon> muahaha
[10:56] <nzoueidi> hahaha :D
[11:19] <Dro> !seen neo*
[11:19] <Dro> no seen module?  x)
[14:20] <Dro> lol
[14:20] <Dro> nzoueidi, u're smart, thats enough :P
[14:21] <nzoueidi> haha x)
[14:23] <praisethemoon> * Dro strikesagain *
[14:23] <Dro> * praisethemoon isthegoalkeeper *
[14:24] <praisethemoon> i was a good goal keeper back in the days
[14:24] <Dro> i don't think so..
[14:29] <praisethemoon> heh
[14:30] <Dro> I have to try playing against u
[14:30] <Dro> i bet i'll win<PHONE_NUMBER>32138-0 in 5 minutes
[14:31] <praisethemoon> scoring 0 does not make you the winner ;)
[14:49] <pavlushka> my HDD just died with all the data \o/
[14:50] <praisethemoon> \o/
[14:50] <praisethemoon> we're too badass that we don't try to recover lost data xD
[14:50] <elacheche> pavlushka: I was just reading this old bookmark http://www.geekyprojects.com/storage/how-to-recover-data-even-when-hard-drive-is-damaged/
[14:51] <pavlushka> elacheche: aha!
[14:51] <pavlushka> so no u-la-la for a moment :)
[14:51] <praisethemoon> NOOO
[14:51] <praisethemoon> that is plain inacceptable!
[14:52] <pavlushka> running on USB pendrive
[14:52] <pavlushka> which I keep always to setup up anyone's machine anytime :(
[14:53] <elacheche> Try that link pavlushka
[14:53] <pavlushka> Its an all ready ubuntu-mate setup
[14:55] <pavlushka> elacheche: on it, its not getting the HDD even, was a usb portable one
[15:01] <pavlushka> the sound of the HDD, https://clyp.it/s5viadwk
[15:01] <pavlushka> while connected
[15:02] <pavlushka> but fdisk -l does not shows it
[15:16] <pavlushka> *show
[15:19] <elacheche> I really hate how FNL pre-organized.. Everything is done in background.. I hate this..
[15:42] <Dro> praisethemoon, I have a bad news for you
[15:42] <Dro> praisethemoon: Your IP address is: <IP_ADDRESS> and you'll be under ddos attack.
[15:44] <praisethemoon> i thought i'm logged in ..
[15:47] <Dro> praisethemoon, la9ad wa9a3ta fel fa5
[15:47] <Dro> Your network is under control :P
[15:48] <praisethemoon> idc
[15:48] <praisethemoon> i'm @ work
[15:48] <Dro> :P
[15:48] <praisethemoon> plz steal my everything
[15:48] <praisethemoon> like i care xD
[15:49] <praisethemoon> but i'm already logged in to freenode
[15:49] <praisethemoon> elacheche, can you explain this?
[16:08] <elacheche> praisethemoon: HEXCHAT config
[16:09] <praisethemoon> what about it?
[16:10] <elacheche> Something is wrong, ask about it in their IRC channel.. I had the same issue years ago when I was on xchat, then someone told me the trick, and I forget what was it
[16:14] <praisethemoon> What do I have to ask
[16:14] <praisethemoon> i need a concrete question x)
[16:31] <elacheche> praisethemoon: I just started my old xchat.. let me review the config
[16:32]  * praisethemoon has no idea what's going on
[16:33] <elacheche> praisethemoon: try this
[16:34] <elacheche> CTRL+s will prompte the servers list
[16:34] <elacheche> Select FREENODE, then click on EDIT
[16:35] <elacheche> put your password in the 2 fields "NickServ Password" and "Server Password"
[16:35] <elacheche> Try it, then save and restart hexchat
[16:36] <praisethemoon> elacheche, http://imgur.com/a/xQPTA
[16:36] <praisethemoon> which one
[16:38] <elacheche> Hold on, HEXCHAT and XCHAT don't looks similar anymor!! Let me install and start hexchat
[16:41] <praisethemoon> :'(
[16:41] <praisethemoon> i criiveritim
[16:41] <elacheche> What option are you using right now?
[16:44] <elacheche> Here you go praisethemoon https://freenode.net/kb/answer/hexchat
[16:46] <Dro> praisethemoon, change login method to /pass password
[16:47] <praisethemoon> \o/
[16:47] <praisethemoon> is everything okay now?
[16:47] <Dro> its ok, but i'm using /pass password method myself :)
[16:47] <elacheche> Yes it is praisethemoon :)
[16:47] <praisethemoon> PRAISTHEMOON YALL
[16:47] <praisethemoon> thanks elacheche & dro ^^
[16:47] <praisethemoon> but what was the issue in fact?
[16:47] <Dro> praisethemoon, 10 DT
[16:47] <elacheche> Dro: Why! what's the diff!
[16:48] <Dro> praisethemoon, maybe the login method was wrong?
[16:48] <praisethemoon> yeah i had /nick
[16:48] <Dro> elacheche, the /nickserv .. etc method will login after being connected to server
[16:48] <praisethemoon> ahhh
[16:48] <Dro> but the other way works just while connecting
[16:48] <elacheche> Actually when using NickServ you should use /msg nickserv identify password.. I guess HEXCHAT drops the identify thing :/
[16:49] <Dro> no, but to /msg nickserv you must be connected to the server :)
[16:49] <Dro> nickserv is considered as a regular user
[16:49] <elacheche> Dro: I mean, what's the diff between SASL and /pass
[16:49] <Dro> you can't /msg it without being connected
[16:49] <Dro> elacheche, not sure about SASL
[16:50] <elacheche> K
[16:50] <Dro> praisethemoon, btw your join was looking like this:
[16:50] <Dro> * pavlushka has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:50] <Dro> * praisethemoon<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined
[16:50] <Dro> * praisethemoon has quit (Changing host)
[16:50] <Dro> * praisethemoon (~praisethe@unaffiliated/praisethemoon) has joined
[16:51] <Dro> what was happening is: you're connected, you /msg nickserv , your host is updated
[16:51] <Dro> now: * praisethemoon (~praisethe@unaffiliated/praisethemoon) has joined
[16:51] <Dro> you join directly with a hidden host
[16:57] <praisethemoon> ahhh alrighty
[16:59] <Dro> good night guys