[00:01] <ali1234> misplaced notifications still isn't fixed
[00:01] <ali1234> not that i mind
[00:05] <ali1234> installing flash through the software centre is "interesting"
[00:06] <ali1234> if you search in the dash the first thing it shows is the amd64 metapackage for nspluginwrapper - even if you are on a i386 machine
[00:06] <ali1234> so you have to click on the second result
[00:06] <ali1234> not that you can tell because they both look identical
[00:09] <ali1234> apparently if you pick the second one on amd64 it doesn't work
[00:13] <daftykins> 0o
[00:13] <ali1234> i assume this should be reported against unity-places-applications?
[00:14] <ali1234> ~info vrms
[00:14] <ali1234> !info vrms
[00:14] <ali1234> whut?
[00:15] <daftykins> you have what installed O_O
[00:15] <ali1234> i don't have it installed
[00:15] <ali1234> i just saw it while searching for unity-places-applications
[00:15] <daftykins> ^_^
[00:15] <daftykins> i see
[00:15] <ali1234> which is actually called unity-place-applications
[00:15] <daftykins> sounds a little - odd
[00:16] <ali1234> well quite
[00:16]  * daftykins hands out the monacles O_.
[00:23] <ali1234> bug 863745
[00:24] <daftykins> OSs are beginning to look quite confusing without a stock WIMP UI
[00:24] <ali1234> "i told you so"
[00:24] <daftykins> just looking at some screenshots of Oneiric now
[00:24] <daftykins> mmm?
[00:25] <ali1234> the whole point of all of these things is supposedly to make them easier to use
[00:25] <ali1234> but it just makes them more frustrating
[00:25] <daftykins> haha
[00:25] <daftykins> indeed
[00:25] <ali1234> because it gives all the control to the software
[00:25] <ali1234> and the software is usually broken
[00:25] <daftykins> i got linked to an amusing article on gnome3 from some intel guy and Linus Torvalds
[00:25] <ali1234> so now i can get tripped up by stupid things like this, purely because the information isn't available to me
[00:25] <daftykins> from their perspective, rather
[00:25] <daftykins> yeah i'm not fond of the way 'computing' is going
[00:26] <daftykins> i haven't even really touched ubuntu 11.04
[00:27] <ali1234> this is relevant http://blog.jospoortvliet.com/2011/09/meego-and-opensuse-invitation.html
[00:27] <ali1234> not that i'm saying you should switch to opensuse
[00:27] <ali1234> but the core message is worth repeating
[00:32] <daftykins> reading
[00:33] <ali1234> the reason this annoys me so much is that yes, you can make an argument that synaptic is confusing for the noobs
[00:33] <ali1234> but the replacement is no less confusing, in fact it is worse, because even i can't make sense of it
[00:33] <ali1234> because the information just isn't there, whether you can understand it or not
[00:34] <ali1234> and this just presents a barrier for people who want to learn
[00:34] <ali1234> you can't reason logically abut which icon is more appropriate
[00:34] <ali1234> you just have to guess
[00:35] <daftykins> absolutely
[00:35] <daftykins> those that know, are stumped. so how can 'lesser' users have a chance? all they can hope for is clicking the right combinations of fancy pictures (icons) until something happens
[00:35] <ali1234> right
[00:36] <ali1234> have faith in the fancy icons
[00:36] <daftykins> :)
[00:36] <ali1234> that is the very antithesis of what free and open source software is all about
[00:36] <ali1234> if i wanted to put my faith in some hidden away system i'd be using apple or microsoft
[00:37] <daftykins> i can kind of understand how the desktop environment people (probably the wrong term, there) don't really know where to go from here - that's fair to say isn't it? we've had a lot of similar stuff for a long time
[00:37] <ali1234> yes
[00:37] <ali1234> but just because something is 20 years old, doesn't mean it's bad
[00:37] <daftykins> but yeah right now they're more about user experimentation than user interface design
[00:37] <ali1234> sure, from a marketing pov, it is harder to sell
[00:38] <ali1234> also here's another thing
[00:39] <ali1234> compare that opensuse post to jono's recent post about "getting your apps in ubuntu"
[00:39] <ali1234> the opensuse guy is community manager too
[00:39] <ali1234> jono's is a lot more diplomatic :)
[00:39] <ali1234> but still has a veiled reference to meego in that he mentions "qt and qml"
[00:40] <shauno> I honestly think developer.u.c is a bad joke :/
[00:40] <ali1234> i;ve never seen it before
[00:40] <daftykins> that concorde-effected on me
[00:40] <ali1234> what exactly do you think is wrong with it?
[00:40] <ali1234> what's concorde-effected mean?
[00:41] <shauno> it feels a whole lot like they've decided they need an "ecosystem" to match the ios/android/etc models
[00:41] <ali1234> well that's because they have
[00:41] <ali1234> and they do
[00:41] <ali1234> but you have to remember that that is all they mean by "developer"
[00:42] <ali1234> people who make fart apps basically
[00:42] <ali1234> the only thing i see wrong with it is the focus on pygtk/quickly - which are just frankly awful tools
[00:42] <daftykins> ali1234: it went right over my head
[00:42] <ali1234> qt creator is lightyears ahead, and can compete with apple and windows development systems
[00:43] <ali1234> and that's the reason the qt and qml reference in jono's post stuck out for me
[00:43] <ali1234> i've never heard him push anything but quickly before
[00:43] <daftykins> oic it was an abbreviation for .ubuntu.com
[00:44] <ali1234> so i don't think it was a coincidence with the meego situation and all
[00:45] <ali1234> (if you didn't know, meego was supposed to use qt for app dev, but now it's dead, replaced by tizen, which it seems won't have qt at all)
[00:45] <daftykins> oh so they're turning ubuntu into a platform for smartphone-like apps
[00:45] <daftykins> ooh-err
[00:45] <ali1234> yes
[00:46] <daftykins> careful gents, the ship's going down
[00:46] <ali1234> have you been living under a rock for the past year?
[00:46] <hamitron> it is probably the right direction
[00:46] <daftykins> i've been nowhere near Ubuntu in about that long, yes
[00:46] <ali1234> it's not just ubuntu
[00:46] <daftykins> oh
[00:46] <ali1234> meego was entirely about making a platform to shift apps
[00:46] <daftykins> oh i see
[00:47] <ali1234> except intel and nokia wanted to do it all themselves
[00:47] <ali1234> so instead of forking some established distro, they started over from scratch
[00:47] <daftykins> you'll have to forgive me, i've read the links but i'm quite slow and have had a few :)
[00:47] <daftykins> madness
[00:47] <ali1234> then a year later, when they were just about at the point of getting a viable base distro (think ubuntu maverick), nokia decided to go to windows mobile instead
[00:47] <hamitron> ali1234, you are using unity?
[00:47] <ali1234> and now another 6 months later, intel have quit too
[00:47] <daftykins> i'd heard the name in the news but no idea on this background
[00:48] <ali1234> hamitron: yes, i've been using it for 6 months now
[00:48] <hamitron> k :)
[00:48] <hamitron> so what are intel backing?
[00:48] <daftykins> is that painful?
[00:48] <ali1234> so anyway, now meego has no commercial backers
[00:48] <ali1234> hamitron: tizen
[00:48] <ali1234> meego was supposedly this open community thing
[00:49] <hamitron> I think I may have to use google to know wtf that is
[00:49] <hamitron> ;)
[00:49] <ali1234> but really it was only ever nokia and intel, and a forum where people could pretend they were involved
[00:49] <ali1234> hamitron: if you go to meego.com there is now a link to tizen.com at the top of every page
[00:49] <ali1234> it appeared there a couple days ago along with a blog post from intel basically saying "sorry everyone, meego is dead now. thanks for your time, now get out"
[00:50] <ali1234> like everything thats ever happened with meego, this all happened without anyone in the community having any idea it was coming
[00:50] <hamitron> tizen sounds like a different kind of system
[00:50] <ali1234> it isn't, really
[00:51] <ali1234> there's only so many ways you can package up linux kernel, glibc, core utils
[00:51] <hamitron> didn't meego focus on native apps more?
[00:51] <ali1234> the difference with tizen is there will be far less standards involved in implementing "compliance"
[00:51] <ali1234> yes, meego was about native apps with qt
[00:51] <ali1234> tizen is all html5 apps
[00:51] <ali1234> but that doesn't really mean they are not native
[00:51] <ali1234> meego was all QML
[00:51] <ali1234> QML isn't really very different from HTML5
[00:51] <ali1234> i sure the syntax is different
[00:52] <ali1234> but they are both markup languages
[00:52] <ali1234> they both use javascript
[00:52] <ali1234> and the way they treat objects ont he page is quite similar
[00:52] <ali1234> QML certainly is not "native" by any stretch
[00:53] <hamitron> HTML5 was probably set to "win" over QML though
[00:53] <ali1234> technically QML and Qt are better than html5
[00:53] <ali1234> but html just has way more momentum and support
[00:53] <hamitron> yeh
[00:56] <daftykins> is tizen meant to be a mobile platform only, or?
[00:56] <ali1234> yes
[00:56] <ali1234> well depends on your definition of mobile really
[00:56] <ali1234> it's for set top boxes, in vehicle displays etc
[00:57] <ali1234> anything that could potentially have "apps" installed, but isn't a "real" computer
[00:57] <ali1234> meego was never meant for end users
[00:57] <daftykins> oh i see
[00:57] <ali1234> it was meant to be adapted for and sold with OEM hardware
[00:57] <daftykins> for some reason i thought it was going to be a mobile phone OS
[00:57] <ali1234> tizen will be no different
[00:57] <ali1234> it is going to be a mobile phone OS as well
[00:58] <hamitron> tizen sounds promising tbh
[00:58] <ali1234> lol
[00:58] <ali1234> don't fall for it
[00:58] <hamitron> ;)
[00:58] <ali1234> meego sounded promising too
[00:58] <ali1234> so did maemo
[00:58] <ali1234> so did moblin
[00:58] <ali1234> all now abandoned
[00:58] <hamitron> well, I think this has something going for it
[00:58] <hamitron> with the cross platform apps
[00:59] <hamitron> and just sounds simple
[00:59] <ali1234> i take it you've never tried to use OBS
[00:59] <ali1234> simple it is not
[00:59] <hamitron> no
[00:59] <hamitron> ok :)
[00:59] <ali1234> not that the others are any better
[00:59] <ali1234> but in the end it's just linux
[01:00] <shauno> I find it oddly entertaining that there's so many contenders for the completely-nonexistant linux-phone market
[01:00] <ali1234> once you've built it and installed the packages, there's not much difference between distros
[01:00] <ali1234> shauno: you've missed the point
[01:00] <ali1234> it's not about selling an operating system
[01:00] <ali1234> it's about giving away an operating system that is tied to your app store
[01:00] <ali1234> meego was never going to be shipped in a way that could be called "open"
[01:01] <hamitron> and saving on writing the OS yourself ;)
[01:01] <ali1234> exactly
[01:01] <ali1234> OEMs like samsung dream of being able to sell a mobile device tied to an app store and take a cut of every piece of software sold
[01:01] <ali1234> they could do that with microsoft, but they are too cheap to split the profits
[01:01] <ali1234> they want it all
[01:02] <ali1234> linux allows them to build their own half-assed distro and DRM it up, tie it to their app store
[01:02] <hamitron> I only see Apple and Google in a position for that atm
[01:02] <ali1234> but they are also too cheap to even do that themselves
[01:02] <hamitron> and Amazon
[01:02] <hamitron> ;/
[01:02] <ali1234> so meego and tizen were invented in order to trick the linux community into making it all for them
[01:02] <shauno> that's pretty much exactly what amazon just did with the kindle fire.  it's the most sewn-shut android going, and people are going nuts for it
[01:03] <ali1234> with the offer that "you'll get a real open linux smartphone if you help us"
[01:03] <ali1234> "not like that android where you have no say over the governance"
[01:03] <hamitron> the kindle fire would interest me, if I knew it was going to have a longer life than the current android devices
[01:03] <ali1234> except it didn't work out like that
[01:03] <ali1234> it worked out exactly as open as android except more buggy and with no devices
[01:03] <daftykins> i'm waiting for my HP Touchpad to get android :)
[01:04] <ali1234> but hey, when android was only 1.5 years old it sucked too
[01:04] <hamitron> daftykins, fun yes, but I just want something that is "normal" and works
[01:04] <hamitron> ;)
[01:04] <ali1234> if they keep starting over every 1.5 years they'll never get past the suckage
[01:04] <ali1234> unless they base off another distro, like canonical wisely chose to
[01:04] <hamitron> is there any more news on webOS?
[01:04] <ali1234> webos supposedly to be sold to amazon?
[01:05] <ali1234> daftykins: some people are working on a touchpad bootloader in #msm-bootloader
[01:05] <daftykins> hamitron: why won't that work 0o
[01:05] <hamitron> if that happens, that answers my question on how long amazon will support the fire :/
[01:06] <ali1234> amazon will support it as long as people keep buying stuff with it
[01:06] <daftykins> ali1234: neat, the cyanogenmod team are doing well
[01:06] <hamitron> daftykins, by "just works", I mean with no hassle, fully supported
[01:06] <daftykins> hamitron: so you want to be locked into a content provider?
[01:06] <hamitron> yes
[01:06] <ali1234> daftykins: the htclinux people too
[01:06] <hamitron> daftykins, only on that 1 device
[01:06] <hamitron> ;)
[01:07] <daftykins> ah i was not aware of htc linux
[01:07] <daftykins> ff 7.0.1 already 0o
[01:07] <daftykins> who broke what...
[01:07] <ali1234> they do more crazy stuff than cyanogen... they port android to windows mobile phones :)
[01:07] <ali1234> and now the touchpad
[01:07] <daftykins> ah yes they made HaRET
[01:07] <daftykins> i've used that on my HTC Touch Diamond to boot android
[01:07] <ali1234> anyway i am confident it will happen... plenty of smart people are working on it
[01:07] <daftykins> useless on a phone with 192MB RAM though
[01:08] <hamitron> http://www.boffer.co.uk/
[01:08] <ali1234> i have a phone with 64mb that runs android 1.6
[01:08] <hamitron> tempted
[01:08] <hamitron> :/
[01:08] <ali1234> or 1.5... or was it 1.4?
[01:08] <ali1234> anyway it's useless
[01:08] <ali1234> noooo donot buy those cheapass tablets
[01:08] <daftykins> indeed
[01:08] <ali1234> "N700" lol
[01:09] <hamitron> ali1234, I won't.... it turns out I am cheaper than even that tablet ;)
[01:09] <daftykins> wasn't that an ancient nokia?
[01:09] <daftykins> hamitron: you missed the touchpads then?
[01:09] <ali1234> you're thinking of the N770... and i think that's the idea :)
[01:09] <hamitron> daftykins, too expensive
[01:09] <ali1234> that was the first maemo device
[01:09] <daftykins> even during the firesale?
[01:09] <ali1234> almost everyone missed them
[01:10] <hamitron> by the time the touchpad is running android in a useful way, android will have greater requirements imo
[01:10] <ali1234> even the mobile analysts i know failed to purchase them
[01:10] <daftykins> ah i got 2 as i was in the US at the time
[01:10] <ali1234> and they know everything that's going to happen 2 weeks in advance
[01:11] <hamitron> a mate offered me one for £90 he'd got
[01:11] <hamitron> but i decided I wouldn't use it
[01:11] <ali1234> you probably wouldn't
[01:11] <hamitron> yeh
[01:11] <hamitron> :)
[01:11] <ali1234> i don't use any of the mobile stuffi have
[01:11] <hamitron> me neither
[01:12] <daftykins> i've used it for google reader on the toilet so far
[01:12] <daftykins> think i'll have more use once android's on
[01:12] <hamitron> I'd rather buy a few books on stuff I want to learn
[01:12] <daftykins> as i could do something with XBMC
[01:13] <hamitron> and as for how the computing market is going.... not interested
[01:13] <hamitron> I like a traditional upgradeable PC
[01:13] <daftykins> heh i don't get companies releasing those all-in-ones now
[01:14] <hamitron> well, I think tablets will take over, or something like them
[01:14] <daftykins> for the common folk, yeah
[01:14] <hamitron> and as that happens, I won't be so interested
[01:14] <hamitron> yep
[01:14] <daftykins> saw so many on boat trips and airports recently
[01:14] <hamitron> there will still be people like us ofc
[01:14] <hamitron> :)
[01:14] <daftykins> i think it's the touch manipulation, it really appeals to the simpler folk
[01:15] <daftykins> deffo
[01:15] <daftykins> though, as i was teaching recently, they're definitely getting worse
[01:15] <hamitron> what are?
[01:15] <daftykins> youngsters
[01:15] <ali1234> tabets won't takeover, that is silly
[01:15] <hamitron> how you mean?
[01:15] <hamitron> "worse"
[01:16] <ali1234> like was said the other day, do you think people will run autocad on a tablet? maya? avid?
[01:16] <hamitron> ali1234, the average user doesn't load autocad
[01:16] <daftykins> they do their social networking, general arsing around in browsers - but basically consider OSs and anything lower level to be pixie dust and magic
[01:16] <hamitron> they load facebook
[01:16] <hamitron> ;/
[01:16] <ali1234> i know this
[01:16] <ali1234> computers existed before facebook
[01:16] <ali1234> and they will continue to exist
[01:16] <daftykins> thus, kids are getting worse
[01:16] <ali1234> you can still buy a typewriter if you want to!
[01:17] <daftykins> i'm on a heavily modded one right now!
[01:17] <ali1234> computers wern't mass market until about ... 1995
[01:17] <daftykins> quad ink ribbons
[01:17] <hamitron> they will exist, sure.... but the PC in the home like now, will die away
[01:17] <daftykins> <3
[01:17] <ali1234> yes, the entertainment PC will die
[01:17] <hamitron> even the PC to do basic work
[01:18] <ali1234> but it was never a particularly good solution anyway
[01:18] <ali1234> most people don't want a PC
[01:18] <hamitron> word processing and stuff
[01:18] <ali1234> word processing on a tablet... no
[01:18] <hamitron> yes
[01:18] <ali1234> ipad can't even print
[01:18] <daftykins> think it can now
[01:18] <ali1234> these devices are not meant for creation
[01:18] <ali1234> except creating apps
[01:18] <ali1234> from which the OEMs can take a cut
[01:19] <hamitron> I think tablets will evolve
[01:19] <daftykins> indeed, amazon kinda has it right with the fire being about consumption
[01:19] <ali1234> they're not even for that
[01:19] <ali1234> they are devices for consumption only
[01:19] <daftykins> though i'm a tad confused who wants to watch TV+film on a small screen on the go
[01:19] <ali1234> consuming bandwidth, media, apps, anything that can be charged for
[01:19] <daftykins> also, when the demo guy said they can resume what they're watching on the big screen - what device do they mean?
[01:19] <ali1234> amazon is spot on with the fire
[01:20] <ali1234> the question is whether they have the technical ability to support an android device
[01:20] <ali1234> kindle software is kind of flaky...
[01:20] <ali1234> daftykins: shifting media between screens is something meego was supposed to do
[01:20] <hamitron> I still think the average business will be happy to replace PC with more feature full tablet/small devices
[01:20] <daftykins> oh so just HDMI output?
[01:20] <ali1234> except it never worked because about the only thing they didn't put in the compliance spec was what codecs a meego device should support
[01:21] <ali1234> daftykins: no, the cloud knows where you were in the video and knows how to resume on another device
[01:21] <ali1234> it was even demoed at some meego conference
[01:21] <daftykins> oh yeah
[01:21] <ali1234> but it was doomed because of codec issues
[01:21] <ali1234> it would only have worked if all your media was ogg with no drm
[01:21] <daftykins> but right now when amazon refer to it
[01:21] <ali1234> otherwise, meego probably wouldn't have been able to play it
[01:21] <daftykins> what's going to be the device under the TV?
[01:22] <ali1234> well the kindle already does it with books
[01:22] <ali1234> the device under the TV will be a set top box
[01:22] <hamitron> daftykins, it won't need to be under the tv, it will probably comunicate wirelessly
[01:22] <hamitron> ;)
[01:22] <ali1234> like your PVR, except with internet, basically
[01:22] <daftykins> oh a WiDi thing
[01:22] <daftykins> but that's intel D:
[01:22] <ali1234> or rather like an average person's PVR
[01:22] <daftykins> ^_^
[01:23] <daftykins> ah
[01:23] <ali1234> wireless or not is irrelevant
[01:23] <hamitron> what is to stop having the PVR in the cloud?
[01:23] <daftykins> yeah, was gonna say i think TV recording is an old usage model now
[01:23] <ali1234> they want to sell you two boxes, both of which are connected to the cloud (for which you'll have to pay for bandwidth of course)
[01:23] <ali1234> hamitron: the PVR *will* be in the cloud
[01:23] <ali1234> but you'll still need a box to connect to your TV
[01:24] <ali1234> or a TV with such a box integrated
[01:24] <ali1234> either way doesn't matter
[01:24] <hamitron> dvla?
[01:24] <hamitron> erm
[01:24] <daftykins> lol
[01:24] <hamitron> or whatever it is over the network
[01:24] <hamitron> haha
[01:24] <ali1234> dlna
[01:24] <daftykins> DNLA / DLNA
[01:24] <hamitron> that is it
[01:24] <ali1234> aka upnp
[01:24] <ali1234> which was a nice try
[01:25] <daftykins> i used the youtube functionality on a Sharp blu-ray player the other day
[01:25] <ali1234> but another "standard" that died due to nobody made their devices compatible
[01:25] <daftykins> oh my gawd they're terrible
[01:25] <hamitron> why couldn't android offer a new version of it?
[01:25] <ali1234> making that stuff actually work across manufacturers was a stated goal of meego
[01:25] <ali1234> hamitron: it could. it will.
[01:25] <ali1234> hamitron: meego and tizen existed because the OEMs are frankly terrified of google and apple
[01:26] <hamitron> yeh
[01:26] <ali1234> google already has "google tv"
[01:26] <hamitron> google do 1 thing wrong
[01:26] <ali1234> heh
[01:27] <hamitron> they start too many things, and let some fail so often
[01:27] <ali1234> imo the one thing google does wrong is be too honest
[01:27] <hamitron> often half assed
[01:27] <ali1234> people complain about google and privacy and then they go and use facebook, ilife, and msn live, as if they are any different
[01:27] <ali1234> the only difference is google are up front about what they do
[01:28] <hamitron> yeh
[01:28] <ali1234> the same thing can be said about meego vs android
[01:28] <ali1234> meego made a big thing about being more open than android
[01:28]  * hamitron has been tempted to quit everything and just use his own stuff
[01:28] <hamitron> ;)
[01:28] <ali1234> but in the end they were exactly the same in terms of openness
[01:29] <ali1234> the only difference being google were up front from the start about who was in control
[01:29] <ali1234> while meego (ie intel and nokia) just kept making promises and then breaking them
[01:29] <hamitron> I know we all use open source stuff here.... but tbh, it often takes someone controlling something, to make it good
[01:29] <hamitron> :)
[01:29] <ali1234> very much so
[01:29] <hamitron> so it has direction
[01:29] <daftykins> oh yeah
[01:30] <ali1234> a guy from google made a post in response to "openness" complaints
[01:30] <daftykins> and someone headed in a direction you like
[01:30]  * hamitron breaths sigh of relief, not getting flamed
[01:30] <ali1234> basically what he said was, the only thing that matters is, is the source available? is it free? and does it compile?
[01:30] <daftykins> hmm
[01:30] <ali1234> when he made that post, meego still wouldn't compile properly
[01:30] <daftykins> haha
[01:30] <ali1234> unless you had an account on a machine in the cloud
[01:30] <ali1234> a machine running OBS
[01:31] <hamitron> I assume he means "free", like how the FSF define it
[01:31] <ali1234> and you had to track down a dude on irc and ask him to give you an account
[01:31] <ali1234> hamitron: free to be reused, yes
[01:31] <ali1234> hang on, i'll find the post
[01:34] <daftykins> http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/09/use-a-send-only-email-client-to-increase-productivity-at-work/244207/
[01:34] <daftykins> what a ridiculous idea
[01:35] <hamitron> :)
[01:35] <hamitron> I automatically ignore all email anyway
[01:35] <hamitron> :/
[01:35] <daftykins> :D
[01:36] <hamitron> or it must seem that way
[01:36] <hamitron> :D
[01:36] <daftykins> i keep getting my addy signed up to stuff by a Dennis <my surname> in america
[01:36] <hamitron> :/
[01:36] <daftykins> get some new spam, "god damn it Dennis"
[01:36] <daftykins> :D
[01:36] <hamitron> I've started to spam spammers
[01:36] <hamitron> when i can be bothered
[01:36] <daftykins> finally i somehow discovered his actual address and sent him an email, but he was more interested in chasing our family tree
[01:37] <hamitron> :\
[01:37] <shauno> I keep getting mail for someone in the UK.  which is odd, since my email address is my full name.  and he doesn't have my name.
[01:37] <daftykins> :D
[01:37] <daftykins> yeah i got email for a couple more d(something) <mysurname>
[01:37] <daftykins> as i'm a Dave
[01:37] <daftykins> and i replied to the latest saying, er this isn't his address
[01:37] <daftykins> they replied saying they'd basically guessed at his address
[01:37] <daftykins> :S
[01:38] <daftykins> haha i've still got Dennis' emails
[01:38] <ali1234> hamitron: https://plus.google.com/114765095157367281222/posts/VjjxfHcc2dg
[01:39] <hamitron> not available
[01:39] <shauno> I ended up sending this chap an sms asking him to quit it, when he signed up to vodafone using my email address
[01:39] <hamitron> :/
[01:39] <daftykins> :O
[01:39] <daftykins> lmao
[01:39] <daftykins> shauno: that's amazing - get a reply?
[01:39] <shauno> yeah.  he denied he did
[01:39] <shauno> despite the fact I was sending him webtexts from his own account, since they'd mailed me all the details
[01:40] <hamitron> ahaha
[01:40] <daftykins> lmfao
[01:40] <shauno> (and it costs me money to sms the UK)
[01:40] <daftykins> how long did it go on for?
[01:40] <shauno> I still get his mail :/
[01:40] <shauno> but not from vodafone anymore, oddly enough
[01:40] <hamitron> can you terminate his contract?
[01:40] <hamitron> ;)
[01:40] <hamitron> awwww
[01:41] <daftykins> lmao
[01:41] <daftykins> i had a great one asking if i'd go over and tutor some woman's daughter/son in California
[01:41] <daftykins> i wasn't free that day, sadly...
[01:42] <daftykins> so i decided to let her know i wouldn't make it
[01:42] <daftykins> and that perhaps she'd better contact the actual tutor
[01:42] <hamitron> omg, why do i get no good emails? :/
[01:42] <hamitron> mine are all viagra and huge lottery wins
[01:42] <hamitron> :(
[01:42] <daftykins> i'm happy to report everyone replies really gratefully to me after i point out their mistake :)
[01:43] <daftykins> although i never replied to Dennis about the family tree :S
[01:43] <dogmatic69_> what is worse sudo rm -rf / or sudo chmod -r 0000 /
[01:43] <daftykins> in Ubuntu you can just modify the hostname and not match it up with the hosts file
[01:43] <hamitron> rm imo
[01:43] <daftykins> = sudo borked
[01:43] <daftykins> need a livecd to repair :D
[01:44] <daftykins> muahaha
[01:44] <dogmatic69_> the both would suck
[01:46] <shauno> I think I'd rather rm.  easier to clean up.  permissions can be subtle
[01:46] <daftykins> true, that. i spent ages earlier today diagnosing why a Ricoh printer/all-in-one wouldn't push scan to a samba share
[01:47] <hamitron> could something like sh be replaced with a script to shutdown, just to annoy someone easy?
[01:47] <daftykins> permissions were actually fine, just for some reason the printer needed a restart *and* the server, but the server after
[01:47] <daftykins> samba restarts didn't solve it 0o
[01:47] <daftykins> :D
[01:47] <daftykins> hamitron: cruel
[01:48] <hamitron> they'd wonder what happened
[01:48] <daftykins> i probably told this before
[01:48] <daftykins> but when i was a student in College, IE had that thing where some code could eject your optical drive
[01:48] <dogmatic69_> hamitron: maybe alias ls="sudo shutdown -P 0"
[01:49] <shauno> shutdown's mean.  something like PROMPT_COMMAND=eject  is harmless and fun :)
[01:49] <daftykins> i made up a CD-R labelled "Windows XP SPx" and put autorun config on it to auto place that webpage with a hidden internet explorer window in Windows' startup folders
[01:49] <daftykins> and another class guy took it :>
[01:51] <hamitron> naughty :/
[01:53] <daftykins> right i'm calling it a night
[01:53] <daftykins> later all o/
[01:53] <hamitron> nn
[01:53] <hamitron> I'm cosnidering it too
[01:53] <hamitron> considering
[02:06] <hamitron> o/
[06:41] <czajkowski> aloha
[06:42] <MartijnVdS>  \o
[07:20] <czajkowski> Rugby time
[07:22] <togster> Generic greetings to all
[07:33] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:34] <czajkowski> no lord :(
[07:38] <popey> Morning
[07:41] <czajkowski> howdy popey
[07:41] <czajkowski> nicely done 3 pts on the board for scotland
[07:50] <czajkowski> oh dear
[08:01] <scoundrel50a> what channel is for talking about oneiric?
[08:01] <popey> you can here if you like
[08:01] <popey> whats up?
[08:02] <popey> there is also #ubuntu+1
[08:02] <scoundrel50a> I wsa just wondering, on the window, there is only an x to close, nothing else, is that going to change?
[08:02]  * AlanBell will be doing some screencasts of Oneiric later
[08:03] <scoundrel50a> I like the gui for oneiric, and its getting less buggy
[08:03] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:03] <AlanBell> scoundrel50a: is that a window that doesn't resize?
[08:04] <scoundrel50a> yes
[08:04] <scoundrel50a> everything I open wont resize
[08:04] <scoundrel50a> just has an  x to close
[08:04] <popey> can you show us a screenshot?
[08:05] <AlanBell> that doesn't sound right, there are a couple of programs that don't resize, but most should, and should have the window controls
[08:07] <scoundrel50a> um, have a problem, I have a lenovo laptop, but cant find the print screen button on it, is there a program for pront screen?
[08:08] <scoundrel50a> give me a couple of minutes, I call them up, brb
[08:09] <AlanBell> scoundrel50a: run gnome-screenshot -i
[08:11] <scoundrel50a> oh wow, that is good, ok, I need to add it to imgur one sec
[08:11] <scoundrel50a> http://imgur.com/n84Bv
[08:12] <scoundrel50a> ok, that shows x-chat what and firefox and they both only have an x
[08:12] <scoundrel50a> all windows I open are the same
[08:12] <AlanBell> that is all wrong!
[08:12] <popey> thats just the accessibility theme enabled isnt it?
[08:12] <AlanBell> what theme is that?
[08:13] <popey> oh, no thats gnome shell
[08:13] <popey> scoundrel50a: you installed gnome-shell?
[08:13] <scoundrel50a> yes, and its highcontrast theme, but its like that on all the windows
[08:13] <AlanBell> it isn't just the high contrast theme
[08:13] <popey> thats not unity
[08:14] <popey> thats gnome-shell
[08:14] <scoundrel50a> I will change it to something else to show you
[08:14] <popey> scoundrel50a: whats the history of this install?
[08:15] <scoundrel50a> it was installed from Linux Emporium, with just unity, then I installed gnome shell
[08:15] <popey> right
[08:15] <AlanBell> as luck would have it the high contrast theme was on my list to screenshot anyway  . . .
[08:15] <czajkowski> if anyone is around the lord I suggest stepping back
[08:15] <scoundrel50a> with 11.-04 dual boot
[08:15] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/highcontrast.png
[08:16] <popey> scoundrel50a: you upgraded to 11.10?
[08:17] <scoundrel50a> its on dual boot with 11.04 so its on its own partition
[08:17] <popey> ah, gotcha
[08:18] <scoundrel50a> and its just a Ubuntu machine, no windows
[08:19] <popey> so your original question seemed to assume this was the gui in 11.10, which it isnt
[08:19] <popey> Unity is the default desktop user interface in 11.10, but you can install gnome-shell if you like, as you have discovered
[08:19] <AlanBell> either way, the window controls should exist
[08:20] <scoundrel50a> they are there in Unity, not in gnome-shell
[08:21] <AlanBell> I will try installing gnome-shell later (when I have all the screenshots I want
[08:21] <AlanBell> )
[08:22] <scoundrel50a> ok
[08:22] <scoundrel50a> it is worth installing though, I prefer it to unity
[08:23] <AlanBell> I am doing screenshots of the high contrast theme, the onboard on screen keyboard and a screencast with audio of the screenreader install
[08:23] <popey> i filed a bug against onboard last night
[08:23] <popey> during a google hangout with jorge and jason
[08:24] <AlanBell> there is a performance issue with it on top of the 3d dash
[08:24] <popey> its quite handy having one of the unity developers on your screen :|D
[08:24] <AlanBell> I blame gord
[08:24] <popey> onboard can reliably crash unity if you press the right keys
[08:24] <AlanBell> but I am very pleased that DBO managed to scrape in the code to allow onboard to type into the 3d dash at all
[08:25] <popey> yeah
[08:25] <popey> open onboard, and click ALT in it then click the button above tab
[08:25] <popey> *boom*
[08:25] <AlanBell> popey: maximise onboard in unity 2d
[08:25] <popey> does that do similar?
[08:25] <AlanBell> then try and get out of the situation :)
[08:25] <popey> hah
[08:26] <AlanBell> no window controls, it refuses focus, no keyboard shortcuts, no double click the title bar
[08:26] <czajkowski> danfish: you watchin this pile of you know what
[08:27] <AlanBell> *boom* alt+` in onboard doesn't make unity a happy desktop
[08:27] <popey> :D
[08:28]  * AlanBell adds to the a11y release notes
[08:28] <popey> its already fixed
[08:28] <AlanBell> oh good
[08:28] <popey> he fixed it last night
[08:28] <AlanBell> testing has been so late this cycle
[08:29] <popey> stability has been so late this cycle :D
[08:29] <AlanBell> yup, it just has not been runnable enough to test
[08:30] <AlanBell> I really hope the LTS starts out pretty much as Oneiric is right now
[08:32] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:38] <brobostigon> whats firefox 7 like? iceweasel, debian's version of FF was just upgraded to 7 here in debian unstable.
[08:38] <popey> no idea, i dont use firefox
[08:39] <brobostigon> just curious, havent used it in years.
[08:39] <brobostigon> i use chromium now.
[08:39] <czajkowski> brobostigon: it;s ok
[08:40] <czajkowski> lot of the plugins aren;t caught up to work wiht it yet
[08:41] <brobostigon> czajkowski: ah, i see. from that reponse, i think it isnt worth my time trying then. thank you for your insight.
[08:49] <popey> hmmmm
[08:49] <popey> i do love chroot
[08:49] <popey> chrooting to a natty install on another disk and upgrading it to oneiric
[09:07] <popey>
[09:40] <czajkowski>
[09:56] <bigcalm> Breaking news: popey and czajkowski lost for words. More at 11
[09:56] <nymwar> silence of the lambs
[10:02] <ali1234> oneiric goes into suspend even if you disable it in the settings
[10:11] <ali1234> hmm if i click a disk icon multiple times it opens multiple windows - unlike every other icon on the launcher
[10:12] <MooDoo> bigcalm: czajkowski lost for words?  never!!! lies!!!
[10:12] <MooDoo> :)
[10:15] <directhex> i wonder if i can play popeycraft over 3g
[10:16] <bigcalm> directhex: I regularly do it when staying at PremierInn hotels
[10:16] <bigcalm> Hayley likes to take a while in the shower, what else am I to do? :P
[10:17] <directhex> don't premier inn have wiffle?
[10:17] <bigcalm> They do, which you have to pay for
[10:18] <bigcalm> Minecraft doesn't require that much bandwidth really
[10:18] <bigcalm> 3g is good enough
[10:19] <nymwar> I never understood the minecraft fad
[10:19] <directhex> nymwar, it's not a game. that's the #1 thing to remember
[10:19] <bigcalm> Simple things amuse me. Like my credit card saying 3,333. Of course it means I have a crap load to pay off, but still amused
[10:20] <nymwar> if it's not a game does that mean it's a religion?
[10:20] <directhex> nymwar, it's a toy.
[10:20] <directhex> monopoly is a game. you can win at monopoly. a barbie is a toy. you can't win at barbie.
[10:56] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[11:24] <popey> ali1234: i have noticed this suspending too
[11:25] <ali1234> it is a known bug
[11:25] <popey> ah ok
[11:25] <ali1234> https://launchpad.net/bugs/854624
[11:27] <popey> ta
[11:31] <Laney> I like the bug where if you set the monitor to never turn off it actually turns off instantly
[11:32] <ali1234> lol
[11:32] <MartijnVdS> Suspending (and brightness up/down) only work after suspending+resuming first on my laptop
[11:32] <MartijnVdS> also a great feature 8-)
[11:33] <directhex> did they fix the bug where if you turn off your laptop display & turn on only the external display, it turns off all displays?
[11:33] <directhex> natty shipped with that
[11:37] <popey> erk
[11:37] <popey> alan@wopr:~$ sudo apt-get update
[11:37] <popey> E: The method driver /usr/lib/apt/methods/https could not be found.
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> popey: apt-get install apt-transport-https
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> it has a few dependencies..
[11:37] <popey> ta
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> we use it at work with client certs so only "official" machines can use the internal repo
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> (this makes configuring pbuilder.. interesting.. too :))
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> Speaking of lovely bugs.. Alt+F2 -> type too fast <enter> --> previous program started using Alt+F2 gets run (instead of intended one)
[11:54] <windmill> hello, oneiric: is there a way to adjust delay before screen dimming? it dims a bit quick for me
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> windmill: it should be in either the "Screen" or "Power" preferences
[12:00] <windmill> MartijnVdS, it jsut seem to be an on-off option with no control
[12:02] <windmill> It seems to dim after about 5 seconds, I'd like it a little longer as if I'm reading a screen full of text it is a bit distracting
[12:04] <MartijnVdS> I have no idea where configs are stored these days
[12:04] <MartijnVdS> there used to be keys in gconf that you could adjust
[12:04] <MartijnVdS> but not anymore, it seems
[12:05] <windmill> hmm
[12:41] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[12:42] <pr0ph3t> I have noticed the disappearance of the Mobile Broadband option on the pop-up network manager in 11.10, any of you experiencing the same thing?
[12:43] <pr0ph3t> so when clicking on the wireless icon in the top bar I cannot connect to mobile broadband anymore
[12:44] <pr0ph3t> or is there a separate channel to talk about the next version of Ubuntu
[12:45] <AlanBell> there is #ubuntu+1
[12:45] <popey>   hmm
[12:45]  * popey plugs his mobile broadband dongle in
[12:45] <AlanBell> no there isn't :)
[12:45]  * AlanBell has screwed up channels
[12:46] <AlanBell> thats better, #ubuntu+1 is the right channel, but so is this one
[12:46] <popey> yup, plugged in my dongle and it asks for the pin unlock code
[12:47] <popey> and i see it listed in network manager
[12:47] <pr0ph3t> popey, can you disable it in the pop-up window?
[12:47] <popey> what popup window?
[12:48] <pr0ph3t> as in un-tick the Mobil Broadband
[12:48] <pr0ph3t> Mobile*
[12:48] <popey> in what popup window?
[12:48] <popey> the menu you get when you click network?
[12:48] <pr0ph3t> top bar, to the right, where the wireless icon is
[12:48] <popey> its not ticked
[12:48] <popey> so there's nothing to untick
[12:48] <pr0ph3t> but it shows
[12:49] <popey> yes
[12:49] <popey> o_O
[12:50] <pr0ph3t> right, that's what happens when you un-tick your main connection
[12:52] <pr0ph3t> unfortunately I have a very annoying internal dongle and although I managed to get it to work in previous versions of Ubuntu every time I install a new version it stops working again
[13:00] <pr0ph3t> if I get the error -1 Unknown symbol in module when doing insmod is it because I'm doing something wrong?
[13:02] <popey> ☹
[13:03] <kirrus> Why is there still people on IRC.. it is *beautiful* outside!
[13:04] <penguin42> kirrus: Vamparism
[13:04] <MooDoo> at work :(
[13:04] <popey> ETOOHOT
[13:04] <kirrus> MooDoo: as am I ;)
[13:05] <kirrus> popey: Sunshade + Drink-with-lots-of-ice?
[13:05] <gord> pfft i was outside this morning, it was a giant mistake
[13:05] <kirrus> gord: you get burned?
[13:05] <gord> i'm pretty sure the giant ball of gasses fusing together is trying to kill us
[13:05] <kirrus> Nah, it's only trying to kill you.
[13:05] <kirrus> :p
[13:06] <kirrus> tea tree based after sun lotion helps a lot imho
[13:08] <shauno> ireland helps a lot too.  13º of pure grey here
[13:09]  * kirrus is very glad he doesn't have to put the expensive electric heating on for a while yet
[13:09] <penguin42> anyone know a way to debug why apt is saying 'The following packages cannot be authenticated' ?
[13:09] <penguin42> it's a package from multiverse, and I have the latest ubuntu-keychain installed
[13:10] <kirrus> penguin42: this might be a silly question, but have you updated your repo list?
[13:10] <kirrus> as in, done an apt-get update
[13:10] <penguin42> kirrus: Why would I need to do that ?
[13:11] <penguin42> kirrus: Well I'm not sure when I last did - but why would that cause a cannot be authenticated error?
[13:11] <pr0ph3t> so, what could be causing the Unknown symbol error when I do "sudo insmod module.ko"?
[13:11] <pr0ph3t> an actual error in the coding of the module?
[13:11] <penguin42> pr0ph3t: It normally shows the symbols in dmesg if it's missing one
[13:13] <kirrus> penguin42: sometimes packages are removed, or updated, and so don't get authenticated. It's worth doing an apt-get update before you try installing anything, so you've got an up-to-date listing. Not too critical on modern ubuntu systems, as they tend to do one every day anyway, for the package update listing
[13:13] <penguin42> kirrus: OK, go back a step - where does the authentication come from?
[13:14]  * penguin42 is trying to understand the error in detail, not just fix it!
[13:14] <kirrus> penguin42: each package is PGP signed, and the core keys are in the keychain package. Its decrypting this that gives you the authentication - to make sure the package hasn't been altered
[13:15] <kirrus> Or rather, checking the signature, not decrypting, as they're not encrypted.
[13:15] <penguin42> kirrus: OK, so why would an apt-get update fix that?
[13:16] <kirrus> If you've an out-of-date package list, you might be trying to get a package that has been moved or changed, so you're getting one without the signature your system is expecting for that package
[13:16] <penguin42> kirrus: I didn't think that could happen; if the package was updated then it would have a different version number and filename, if I tried to apt-get that then it would fail with a not found
[13:16] <kirrus> Also, the keychain may have been updated, and if you've not updated your package list, you can't be sure you've not got the current one.
[13:17] <kirrus> penguin42: I'm not sure exactly why it happens, just that it does.
[13:17] <penguin42> (an apt-get update did just fix it! But I'd still like to understand why)
[13:17] <kirrus> penguin42: you could try waiting for someone who knows the packaging system better than I. jpds might have an idea.
[13:17] <pr0ph3t> there are 7 unknown "symbols", they could be functions (i.e. input_register_polled_device (err 0)). Does that mean I'm missing something?
[13:18] <penguin42> pr0ph3t: It is either you're missing another module it depends on or the symbol names changed
[13:19] <popey> kirrus: I may dip in the pool later
[13:19] <popey> just unclogged the filter, full of grass
[13:20] <kirrus> popey: sounds like a plan \o/. Is it a 'solar heated' pool (i.e. the sun on it's own)
[13:21] <popey> no
[13:21] <popey> pump & heater
[13:22] <popey> it's 30 degrees right now :D
[13:22] <popey> might have to go down the shop and get beer to drink whilst in said pool
[13:22] <kirrus> Sounds wonderful
[13:22]  * kirrus is not getting jealous again.
[13:22] <kirrus> ;)
[13:23] <kirrus> oh, penguin42, you could try asking on #ubuntu or on the ubuntu-uk mailing list, rather than wasting the glorious sunshine ;) :)
[13:23] <penguin42> kirrus: Hey I went out yesterday, I don't want to over do it!
[13:29] <kirrus> penguin42: there is no such thing as overdoing it in the UK, when we're going to be stuck with a whole winter of dull grey days ;)
[13:29] <penguin42> kirrus: Especially in Manchester
[13:30] <kirrus> penguin42: so what are you doing still inside? :P
[13:30] <penguin42> I've not woken up yet; it's only 2.30
[14:28] <Azelphur> 70C at idle is way too hot for a Q9400, right?
[14:31] <hamitron> Azelphur, you don't need thermal socks for your cpu :/
[14:31] <Azelphur> :p
[15:22]  * SuprEngr has found a way to make Unity more "ok for the eyes" - simples, background illumination -off- by default [well done Compiz!]
[15:26] <SuprEngr> [it's amazing what a day off work lets you find -0 stuff that what was available all along. doh!]
[16:27] <funkyHat> hum. Just put a DVD drive in my MicroServer, but I'm struggling to break out the metal bit from the case...
[16:28] <funkyHat> ahar. Just needed to push a bit harder
[16:34] <penguin42> use a larger hammer
[17:44] <Azelphur> haha, that doctor that's on the news recently, doctor richard scott
[17:44] <Azelphur> that's my doctor o.O
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> The Doctor?
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> Only 20 more minutes :P
[17:45] <Azelphur> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-15021419 nah this one
[18:27] <ikonia> this Doctor Who is just random nonsense now
[18:28] <ikonia> they can't think up plots, so they are just writing random words on a page and calling it a script
[18:53] <czajkowski> aloha
[18:53] <AlanBell> o/
[18:54] <zleap> hi
[19:00] <czajkowski> hows folks
[19:00] <zleap> i am good
[19:03] <czajkowski> I am all shopped out
[19:04] <penguin42> bought anything fun?
[19:07] <bigcalm> I am a banana
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: if it's yellow, go see a doctor
[19:10] <czajkowski> penguin42: bought a purse as mine broke yesterday to match a bag that AlanBell has for me
[19:10] <czajkowski> mostly my bf did the shopping for work stuff
[19:11] <czajkowski> but nice day out in westfield and we got champagne and strawberries
[19:12]  * AlanBell has got czajkowski a bag???
[19:12] <czajkowski> aye in the suitcase
[19:12] <czajkowski> but tis ok will be moving that soon!
[19:12] <AlanBell> oh, right :)
[19:29] <ali1234> mpeg2 ts demuxer is broken in oneiric
[19:29] <ali1234> so i can't play mythtv recordings
[19:29] <ali1234> well not with the default movie player anyway
[20:38] <zleap> hi
[20:42] <zleap> hi
[20:45] <popey> hi
[20:45] <AlanBell> ho
[20:46] <zleap> can someone help me finda guide to help me fix messed up packages please
[20:46] <zleap> popey, yousaid there were guides to un screwing up things
[20:46] <popey> ya
[20:46] <zleap> hi
[20:46] <popey> the key is not the package name but the error message you get from dpkg
[20:46] <popey> thats what I'd google for
[20:46] <zleap> ok
[20:46] <popey> I dont know the answer, I just know the answer is out there
[20:47] <zleap> any idea why things get so messed up in the first place
[20:47] <popey> probably involves massaging some files in /var/lib/dpkg
[20:47] <popey> yes
[20:47] <popey> shit packages from the vendor
[20:47] <zleap> ah
[20:47] <popey> they probably have an RPM which they convert with alien and then say "There, I fixed it"
[20:48] <zleap> well i know the lpr package is messed up as i need to create some directories manualy, it tries to do it but fails
[20:48] <zleap> popey, yeah they have both rpm and .deb
[20:51] <popey> yes
[20:51] <popey> thats not the point, the point is how they make them
[20:52] <ali1234> ar -x *.deb
[20:52] <ali1234> tar -xf data.tar.gz
[20:52] <ali1234> copy out the files you need
[20:52] <ali1234> ...
[20:52] <ali1234> profit
[20:53] <zleap> h ok
[20:53] <zleap> i am not sure hat i ned
[20:53] <ali1234> well you start by looking at what is actually in there
[20:53] <zleap> i need the ppd file but its saying the driver is missing
[20:53] <zleap> ok
[20:57] <zleap> so if i can find the file i need i just copy that to the right place
[20:57] <ali1234> sure
[20:57] <zleap> mfcj615wlpr
[20:58] <zleap> even though the add printer program asks for a wrapper lpd file
[20:58] <zleap> or lpd wrapper
[20:59] <ali1234> is anyone else watching the lectures on quantum computing that were linked on slashdot today?
[20:59] <ali1234> http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/quantum-computing-for-the-determined/
[21:00] <ali1234> i just watched the first one, it's so simple
[21:02] <dutchie> i watched some david deutsch ones a while back
[21:03] <dutchie> http://www.quiprocone.org/Protected/DD_lectures.htm # these ones
[21:04] <ali1234> oh dear, i crashed the codec installer
[21:07] <ali1234> wow super compression
[21:08] <ali1234> ok this is a rather different style of introduction
[21:08] <ali1234> he's going off about multiverses
[21:09] <ali1234> don't like this :)
[21:10] <dutchie> mmm, the compression is a bit iffy on those
[21:11] <ali1234> i don't like it when things are over explained
[21:13] <ali1234> if you understand complex numbers and vectors you'll understand that first video
[21:14] <ali1234> if you've ever used quaternions or done stuff with the mandlebrot set, you probably have enough background
[21:20] <popey> ali1234: are you in unity right now?
[21:20] <ali1234> yes
[21:21] <popey> you were talking about the alt-tab behaviour the other day
[21:21] <ali1234> yes
[21:21] <popey> I learned a couple of interesting things about it
[21:21] <ali1234> it is not like you said
[21:21] <AlanBell> it got tweaked
[21:21] <AlanBell> it now prioritises the current workspace a bit somehow
[21:21] <popey> thats a compiz setting
[21:22] <popey> which is now on by default I believe
[21:22] <popey> and you can use alt+the_key_above_tab to do the alt-tabbing within an app
[21:22] <ali1234> if you just hit alt tab you always go between the last two apps
[21:23] <AlanBell> I was trying to explain that last time we discussed it, but it does't restrict to current workspace
[21:23] <ali1234> no matter what apps they are
[21:24] <popey> yes, thats the case
[21:24] <popey> they figure you're most likely to go between two apps
[21:24] <popey> it kinda breaks if you have 3 apps open spread over two desktops
[21:24] <ali1234> yeah
[21:24] <ali1234> but that's why i don't use alt tab
[21:33] <dutchie> heh
[21:33] <dutchie> this may be bad considering my current workflow is three apps spread over two workspaces
[21:36] <AlanBell> in this website (which isn't counting down to the release) http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/ the body tag has a class "NzcgNmYgNzIgNmMgNjQgMjAgNzMgNzAgNjEgNjMgNjUgMjAgNjEgNjcgNjUgNmUgNjMgNzkgMjAgNmYgNzIgNjc" which I believe to be an encoded message
[21:36] <ali1234> oryl?
[21:38] <ali1234> baconian cypher perhaps?
[21:38] <AlanBell> NNNNNMNNNNNMNNNNNNMNNN
[21:38] <AlanBell> zmzmjjzzjjjjjjjmjzjmzj
[21:38] <AlanBell> cYIMQAMAEMUAEcUUMkAYIc
[21:38] <AlanBell> ggggggggggggggggggggg
[21:38] <AlanBell> is a trivial reordering of it
[21:39] <ali1234> gNj<capital><lowercase> appears like 4 times
[21:39] <AlanBell> the third line isn't a simple ceasar, the first two lines look like things you have to do to the third one
[21:40] <ali1234> hmm there seems to be a letter missing?
[21:40] <AlanBell> yes, I would expect a final g
[21:40] <ali1234> and the final c should be capital
[21:41] <ali1234> or maybe not
[21:41] <AlanBell> why?
[21:41] <AlanBell> there are 3 lower case c, I thought they might be spaces or something
[21:41] <AlanBell> or the 2 M in the first line might be
[21:42] <ali1234> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/2h1NFVTfR1
[21:45] <ali1234> the class is not used in the style.css of course :)
[21:46] <AlanBell> nope
[21:46] <AlanBell> and I don't think it is a google site verification thing either
[21:52] <ali1234> perhaps there's no final g because it is intended to be used with split('g')
[21:53] <AlanBell> ok, that makes sense
[22:03] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[22:03] <pr0ph3t> I think I made a mistake
[22:03] <pr0ph3t> I had a driver for my asus laptop in Ubuntu 11.10 and the I did modprobe -r driver.ko
[22:04] <pr0ph3t> actually without .ko
[22:04] <pr0ph3t> how can I get that driver or module back into place?
[22:05] <pr0ph3t> if that is even possible that is
[22:05] <popey> modprobe driver
[22:06] <pr0ph3t> thanks popey, do I need to do modprobe at every start?
[22:12] <popey> pass
[22:12] <popey> dunno what the driver is or does
[22:13] <dogmatic69_> popey: you just have a random list of drivers floating round your head :D
[22:14] <shauno> if you didn't need to load it explicitly before you remove'd it, you shouldn't need to do anything more with it  (eg, whatever conditions caused it to be loaded ont his boot, should be true on the next boot too)


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