[14:31] <cjwatson> Michalxo: Scott asked me to ask you to join #ubuntu-boot so he can debug this
[14:31] <cjwatson> (er, please don't everyone join there, it's a development channel and it'll be easier if people only join when needed)
[14:44] <ripps> hmm.... my wmctrl stopped working
[14:49] <dto> i get choppy sound playback in Audacity (using pulse plugin) on karmic. Sound Preferences shows Audacity rapidly appearing and disappearing as a client to pulseaudio
[14:51] <dto> also, realtime kernel won't boot. i see "udev killed by ABRT signal" and then "shpchp: cannot reserve MMIO region" then it hangs about 10 sec into bootup.
[14:51] <dto> hmm, new rt kernel update. hold on
[14:56] <dto> the new realtime kernel works!
[14:58] <nostahl> whats the realtime kernel do
[15:00] <QPrime> is it just me or are the latest init scripts seriously broken?
[15:01] <gord> QPrime:  please see the topic
[15:01] <QPrime> *grin* thanks ;)
[15:03] <Michalxo_> guys? anyone https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/429249 ?
[15:12] <dto> yay, ardour runs :_)
[15:20] <Cyberkilla> There are more status messages on my screen than actual conversation:P
[15:20] <philip__> my laptop screen refuses to turn on after closing the lid
[15:20] <philip__> I have to use an external monitor
[15:21] <philip__> Any ideas to get the screen to come back on? (this has happened before once, no idea how I was able to get it back on)
[15:22] <MagicFab> philip__, as a workaround, enable CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE
[15:26] <philip__> MagicFab: enable it in Keyboard Shortcuts?
[15:27] <MagicFab> philip__, yes
[15:28] <nixternal> alrighty, what's the trick to boot up with encrypted drives today?
[15:29] <MagicFab> System > Preferences > Keyboard, then Layouts > Layout options... > Key sequenece to kill the X server > mark the check box
[15:29] <MagicFab> nixternal, existing drive or new one ?
[15:30] <nixternal> existing
[15:30] <philip__> MagicFab: I even rebooted the machine, yet the screen wouldn't turn on. The Dell logo blinked real fast and that was it
[15:42] <TLF> hello
[15:42] <TLF> when is going alpha6 to be released?
[15:44] <Dr_Willis> When its ready :)
[15:54] <TLF> Dr_Willis: I see
[15:54] <TLF> Dr_Willis: and do you know if the migration assistant (the new version, supposedly not included in ubiquity) will be included?
[15:55] <Dr_Willis> No idea. Ive never had that thing work right .. so i never even try it any more.
[15:56] <BluesKaj> migration assistant ...for upgrading a distro ?
[15:57] <Dr_Willis> BluesKaj:  :) i was wondering about that also.. but i normally just do clean installs..
[15:58] <Heikki123> update-manager --dist-upgrade
[15:58] <BluesKaj> Dr_Willis, I was just asking , what is it ?"
[15:58] <BluesKaj> :)
[15:59] <Dr_Willis> BluesKaj:  oh - its a tool when you install that scans your windows partition and makes linux users with  the same username, and copoes over stuff like... err.... wallpaper.. and  MyDocuments.. and thats about it.. i think
[15:59] <Dr_Willis> Dident really do much. for all the  work it tried.
[16:01] <BluesKaj> my old memory is a bit short today
[16:01] <eolo999> hi, i have gnome 2.27.9? installed and purged pulseaudio  (don't want my cpu boiled by a 100% process!) but i cannot  find a way to have a volume-control applet of any kind.  Someone can suggest me a solution?
[16:02] <SKB> alsamixer?
[16:02] <JanC> eolo999: if PA uses 100% CPU there is something wrong with its configuration
[16:02] <Heikki123> hey, i also have a pulseaudio problem... in skype i can't change anything, i only have a list that contains one option: Pulseuaudio srever
[16:02] <cheers__> ah good, thought it was just me
[16:02] <cheers__> did a reinstall yesterday
[16:04] <eolo999> JanC: i'm quite tired of trying to solve pulseaudio related stuff. Every time i have pulseaudio installed i have problems, so now i'm so bored that i prefer 'apt-get remove --purge pulseaudio' without bothering anymore on which are the causes of the problems.
[16:04] <AlanBell> anyone tried karmic on the OLPC XO?
[16:05] <JanC> well, I never had any serious issues like that with PA (except maybe occasionaly in development versions)
[16:05] <eolo999> JanC: so, i'm very unlucky!
[16:05] <BluesKaj> eolo999, I agree 100% , pulse audio isn't required with most pci cards , even some onboards will use the kernel module with alsa
[16:06] <JanC> PA takes about 0% CPU here
[16:06] <SKB> no PA here :P
[16:06] <eolo999> JanC: I noticed googling that many people has problems with PA so that it seems that 'you' are lucky
[16:06] <JanC> actually, most people have no issues with PA  ;)
[16:06] <eolo999> SKB: how did you get a volume control applet in gnome panel?
[16:07] <Heikki123> my firefox is using 100% cpu :D
[16:07] <BluesKaj> PA is a pet project for some devs here and i don't know why it;s being included by default when it causes so many ppl so many problems
[16:07] <JanC> which doesn't mean the issues for the other people aren't important of course
[16:07] <SKB> i can adjust the volume on my speakers
[16:07] <SKB> and volume applet is rather useless
[16:08] <eolo999> BluesKaj: i don't understand why gnome 2.27/8 don't give us the opportunity to easily remove PA?
[16:08] <BluesKaj> JanC, hang around , you'll find a lot of ppl have probs with PA
[16:08] <SKB> you can use alsamixer to change volume without applets
[16:08] <JanC> BluesKaj: I know more people trhan hang around here, and most of them have no issues (except with crap like skype etc.)
[16:08] <eolo999> I find that the switch to pulse audio should have waited for a more mature tool!
[16:08] <BluesKaj> eolo999, same goes for kde ..even if one purges it's merely disabled not actually removed
[16:09] <alankila> eolo999: because it's serious work to keep something you regard as fundamental component at an arm's length from everything else, it seems.
[16:09] <alankila> pulseaudio is definitely removable, but last time I removed it the end result was that gconfd ended up in some kind of cpu-spinning loop because it tried to constantly do something with PA but couldn't find it
[16:10] <eolo999> till jaunty it was easy to remove all dependencies. In karmic it's a big problem
[16:10] <genii-around> Well, I'm on my backup machine now at work. Laptop wouldn't suspend last night and eventually ran out of battery, etc. Installing fresh again now
[16:10] <BluesKaj> yeah, the kernel module i bet, alankila
[16:11] <JanC> if PA takes so much CPU, IIRC that's most likely because your ALSA driver says it supports a sample rate that it doesn't or something like that
[16:11] <eagles0513875> hey BluesKaj
[16:11] <eagles0513875> hey genii
[16:11] <BluesKaj> hi eagles0513875
[16:12] <eagles0513875> genii-around: well i have no keyboard and mouse between last night and today somethign happened and i had my laptop shutdown
[16:12]  * genii-around makes a fresh pot of coffee
[16:12] <genii-around> eagles0513875: When I went to boot up later even grub was gone.
[16:12] <alankila> well, I examined pulseaudio a bit in the past. I used to have relatively high CPU use form pulseaudio even when no sample rate conversion was required. It turned out that the glitch-free codepath asked kernel for the current time so often that this was actually a serious CPU drain.
[16:13] <eagles0513875> ouch genii-around :(
[16:13] <BluesKaj> JanC, I dumped PA cuz the sound is choppy and distorted, as soon as I dumped it my audio became smooth and clean
[16:13] <eolo999> JanC: ok, i'll reinstall PA and for the tenth time try to resolve its weird issues. I promise myself it's the last time.
[16:13] <eagles0513875> im tempted to reinstall so i dont have an upgraded version from jaunty
[16:13] <alankila> almost in a loop trying to do something with gettimeofday. It's been a while and since then they seem to have fixed it because that particular bug is gone... but it isn't always resampling.
[16:14] <BluesKaj> eagles0513875, read the MOTD ... :)
[16:14] <eagles0513875> blarg
[16:14] <eagles0513875> i coudl just do a clean install of jaunty cuz i know that work slol
[16:14] <eagles0513875> works
[16:14] <BluesKaj> not today
[16:15] <BluesKaj> ok jaunty ..good jaunty prt prt :)
[16:15] <JanC> I'm sure there are some bugs in PA, but there are a lot more bugs in various ALSA drivers   ;)
[16:15] <BluesKaj> pet pet
[16:15] <MagicFab> philip__, Intel ?
[16:15] <JanC> and reporting those issues helps to get them resolved (one day...)
[16:16] <philip__> MagicFab: yes
[16:16] <eolo999> JanC: I did it, so many times...
[16:16] <eolo999> some times you get tired of a tool ;)
[16:16] <BluesKaj> ther kernel modules contain the drivers alsa just acts as a link/controller , from what i've been told ..there are lots of opinions about that issue as well
[16:17] <alankila> resample-method = src-sinc-medium-quality
[16:17] <alankila> Don't really mind to waste CPU when it goes for a good cause, though. Like high-quality resampling.
[16:17] <JanC> BluesKaj: the kernel modules are part of "ALSA" too
[16:18] <durt> hello folks, anyone report successful reboots with latest upgrades? including new kernel?
[16:19] <natewiebe13> durt: not here
[16:19] <alankila> durt: I had a pile of fail due to upstart-related changes this morning. No network-manager, gnome didn't start, or at least the panel was broken...
[16:19] <alankila> but a new dist-upgrade fixed it.
[16:19] <Heikki123> uuh, i was just going to update,... maybe it's better to wait for a while ;)
[16:19] <BluesKaj> JanC, are you absolutely sure about that, cuz there are ppl here who will dispute your statement. Mostly ppl who discuss issues which boil down to semantics .
[16:19] <natewiebe13> alankila: you have it working?
[16:19] <alankila> natewiebe13: gnome & nm? yes.
[16:20] <natewiebe13> alankila: i used sudo apt-get upgrade
[16:20] <natewiebe13> alankila: what should i have used?
[16:20] <tobixen> I got the system working this morning, but only after running "dpkg repair" from the rescue menu
[16:20] <alankila> probably just dist-upgrade. upgrade makes smaller, more conservative updates because it does not allow packages to replace other packages.
[16:20] <alankila> so it allows a package to be replaced by a new version only, in other words.
[16:21] <natewiebe13> alankila: command?
[16:21] <alankila> "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade" is what I use.
[16:21] <durt> not sure if upgrade would bring in a new kernel...
[16:21] <natewiebe13> upgrade brought a kernel update
[16:22] <durt> not worried about the above command, it's the reboot that scares me :C
[16:22] <aboSamoor> is the daily image now working ?
[16:22] <alankila> I guess it follows because the metapackage for kernel references a new package and the new package isn't installed already, so upgrade considers it fair to install it. It's like any other dependency... But then again, who knows. I'd prefer if the whole "upgrade" option didn't exist.
[16:23] <alankila> There was a point in the past when no serious debian systems administrator would have blindly done a dist-upgrade, but would have resolved that type of conflicts manually.
[16:24] <alankila> but now we're just end users and don't really care and expect a dist-upgrade to just work. It's either progress or regress, I'm not quite sure which.
[16:25] <Guest73611> help me!!!!
[16:25] <Guest73611> Ubuntu don't boot
[16:25] <AlanBell> Guest73611: are you using Karmic?
[16:25] <durt> I think I got my answer :/
[16:26] <Guest73611> yep
[16:26] <AlanBell> it is a known problem, happened to pretty much everyone yesterday/today
[16:26] <JanC> BluesKaj: you can grep the kernel source for "alsa" or "ALSA" if you want  ;)
[16:26] <mennapuzza> AlanBell, and now?
[16:26] <aboSamoor> mennapuzza: http://roderick-greening.blogspot.com/2009/09/recover-non-booting-linux-system.html
[16:27] <David-T> is the topic out of date now?
[16:27] <David-T> i.e. is it fixed?
[16:27] <mennapuzza> aboSamoor, thx
[16:27] <AlanBell> mennapuzza: can you get to a command prompt at all?
[16:28] <aboSamoor> should I download the daily image or the alpha 5 to fix my non-booting ubuntu ?
[16:28] <mennapuzza> AlanBell, no..
[16:28] <durt> David-T, I think it's more than just one 'it'. It seems the devs have decided now is the time to introduce a lot of stuff they've been working on.
[16:28] <mennapuzza> Now I download a livecd
[16:29] <Heikki123> ah, there is a livecd now?
[16:29] <AlanBell> mennapuzza: in which case, a live cd of some kind is your way forward
[16:29] <mennapuzza> AlanBell, thx so much
[16:29] <durt> we're still doing chroot to recover from hung boots?
[16:30] <David-T> currently i have no idea if my system will come back after a reboot/crash/powercut, but i also have no idea whether dist-upgrade would get it in to a state where it would survive a reboot
[16:30] <durt> David-T, ditto here...
[16:32] <cagonto> online boxing game http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html
[16:33] <AlanBell> I have a fully updated karmic box that has booted
[16:33] <AlanBell> I am not in a great hurry to reboot again though
[16:34] <durt> AlanBell, thank you.
[16:40] <solarion> anyone have any idea why printing would automatically rotate to portrait and scale the image (very odd-looking) despite it fitting best in landscape?
[16:40] <solarion> also, why is the page orientation grayed out?
[16:40] <bobfox321> cannot find boot options on 9.10 beta, getting too many boot up lines
[16:41] <natewiebe13> apt-get dist-upgrade worked.. there was an update for dbus, i think that did the trick
[16:41] <natewiebe13> im now on fully usable karmic [thumbs up]
[16:42] <bobfox321> skype works awesome on karmic
[16:43] <BluesKaj> JanC, like I said alsa is linked to the kernel module which include drivers for pci cards and some onboards , hence the problem with PA ..it's just another layer trying to act as a soundserver that isn't required in most cases.
[16:44] <solarion> I think this may well just be evince
[16:46] <bobfox321> cannot find boot options on karmic beta, getting too many boot up lines
[16:51] <CydeSwype> okay what'd i miss?  safe to reboot yet?
[16:53] <BluesKaj> CydeSwype, apparently not
[16:56] <CydeSwype> drat
[16:56] <solarion> filed bug #430811; would appreciate confirmation
[16:56] <randy_> Can I run postfix and sendmail on ubuntu-server 9.04 at the same time?
[16:57] <BluesKaj> yeah, I have kernel source issue with nvidia graphics right now ..the default has me in a resolution that doesn't work well with my samsung monitor
[16:58] <hggdh> ok, what happened to upstart?
[16:58] <solarion> hggdh: it was put in its place. ;)
[16:59] <hggdh> and broke my reboot... udev, network-manager, hal, etc
[16:59] <hggdh> none of them auto-started
[16:59] <hggdh> is this already known? Took me about half an hour to figure it out
[17:00] <CydeSwype> hggdh, yes it's known
[17:00] <hggdh> do you have the bug #?
[17:00] <CydeSwype> they've been reworking the boot sequence since yesterday
[17:00] <CydeSwype> i do not
[17:00] <hggdh> k, probably the kernel folks will known about it
[17:00] <JanC> there are probably 100 bug # by now  ;)
[17:01] <hggdh> :-)
[17:01] <hggdh> not really, most will just get stopped there...
[17:01] <hggdh> heh. The joys of running the bleeding edge ;-)
[17:01] <CydeSwype> i'm updating a twitter account here (https://twitter.com/UbuntuPlus1) if you want to follow that (rather than lurk here and filter through everything)
[17:02] <hggdh> thanks, CydeSwype
[17:04] <hggdh> its recoverable (at least for me) by manually 'start'ing dbus, hal, network-manager, and gdm/kdm
[17:05] <ali12341> i manually started X and it segfaulted
[17:05] <ali12341> meh, i nuked it and installed 9.04 anyway
[17:07] <hggdh> X will not work nicely (er, at all) without dbus
[17:08] <Pici> X will, your desktop environment of choice wont.
[17:09] <hggdh> Pici: indeed. I stand corrected
[17:10] <hggdh> well, will try again. There I go for a restart... will (hopefully) be back in a few minutes
[17:11] <Pici> Good luck
[17:14] <NoelJB> Is there a race condition with notify-osd?  With Jaunty, on startup I see messages related to network connection, avahi discovery (service discovery applet), etc.  With Karmic, I see only one message from Notify-OSD on boot.  But if I bounce my connection, all of the notifications display as expected.
[17:15] <NoelJB> this does not appear to be an issue related to the recent upstart changes.  its been an issue for a while.
[17:15] <solarion> more sucks; can the livecd get less already?
[17:16] <Q-FUNK> is there any work-around to get networking from inside a chroot to work again?
[17:17] <solarion> QPrime: if it works outside, it should work outside
[17:17] <solarion> you might need to cp /etc/resolv.conf in
[17:17] <solarion> also mount --bind /proc proc; mount --bind /sys sys; mount --bind /dev/ dev
[17:18] <solarion> if you're doing this for security, that might be a bad idea, tho
[17:18] <solarion> but networking should still work
[17:18] <Machtin> hey guys.. i can't boot. Says something about udev and something in  /lib/udev/rules was not okay.. i think Name="%k" or so.. idea, anyone?
[17:18] <Machtin> can't boot recovery mode either
[17:18] <QPrime> solarion: wrong 'Q' ;)
[17:19] <solarion> QPrime: right, sorry
[17:19] <QPrime> *grin* gotta love tab-completion.
[17:20] <solarion> yeah, it's special
[17:21] <CydeSwype> Machtin, check topic
[17:21] <arvind_khadri> hi, i have installed openssh-server on the computer i want to ssh into, its on the same network..but  there i have logged in a different user, the client says that there is no route to host. what to do?
[17:21] <cjwatson> Machtin: the NAME="%k" warning is just a warning, it isn't fatal
[17:21] <cjwatson> so your problem is something else
[17:21] <Machtin> oh, i see.
[17:22] <CydeSwype> mornin' cjwatson (or afternoon)
[17:22] <cjwatson> afternoon verging on evening
[17:22] <Q-FUNK> solarion: right. resol.conf indeed, except that this network is not static. copying the resolv.conf every time gets problematic.
[17:22] <DanaG> hmm, there's a pavucontrol 0.9.9 out now... any chance of it getting packaged?
[17:22] <mac_v>  /tpoic
[17:22] <mac_v> oops!
[17:22] <DanaG> oh wait, it already IS.
[17:22] <cjwatson> btw, newer libexpat1 and dbus packages from a few hours ago should help out people with separate /usr or /var who had problems with dbus starting
[17:23] <cjwatson> or not starting, rather
[17:23] <solarion> Q-FUNK: mount --bind?
[17:23] <solarion> write a little app to copy it every time it changes?
[17:23] <solarion> (easy to do with fnotify)
[17:24] <solarion> could even call it "fcp"
[17:24] <Machtin> CydeSwype: err, i don't have a chance to boot at all, right?
[17:24] <solarion> fcp <list of files> dest
[17:26] <RichardWolfVI> Hello, I'm having several issues since the latest updates.
[17:26] <RichardWolfVI> I have no Usplash at startup and now compiz seems broken, I'm stuck in metacity with a terrible performance.
[17:26] <jpds> RichardWolfVI: Welcome to the club.
[17:27] <RichardWolfVI> Well, at least I got to fix GRUB
[17:27]  * emonkey fixed the most things with a live CD and a chroot
[17:27] <RichardWolfVI> I almost fainted when GRUB said that there were no boot devices.
[17:27] <Q-FUNK> solarion: mount to link a file accross filesystems? :)
[17:27] <Machtin> hey, i couldn't boot at all.. i couldn't even do aptitude upgrade, since I have no access to anything :)
[17:28] <RichardWolfVI> emonkey: Did a chroot too.
[17:28] <stefanlsd> can someone do me a favour please and pastebin a grub menu.lst file (i think /boot/menu.lst or /boot/grub/menu.lst). mine is non existant :)
[17:28] <RichardWolfVI> Yes, I couldn't boot yesterday either
[17:28] <RichardWolfVI> stefan
[17:28] <RichardWolfVI> boot into a Live CD
[17:29] <RichardWolfVI> get into a chroot and purge GRUB and its dependencies
[17:29] <arvind_khadri> any ideas?
[17:29] <RichardWolfVI> update pacages and reinstall grub
[17:29] <RichardWolfVI> *packages
[17:30] <stefanlsd> RichardWolfVI: ok. i can give that a try.  grub2 is the package i should be using right?
[17:30] <Machtin> emonkey: did you recover access to your system with that?
[17:30] <RichardWolfVI> stefanlsd: yes, but it's just a metapackage
[17:30] <stefanlsd> RichardWolfVI: ok. thx
[17:30] <RichardWolfVI> get rid of grub-pc and grub-common as well
[17:30] <RichardWolfVI> oh, and os-prober
[17:30] <hggdh> OK. latest dbus and n-m makes reboot better, but not yet stable
[17:31] <emonkey> Machtin: yes I upgrade packages and reconfigured some, deactivated proprietary nvidia drivers and after that it worked again
[17:31] <RichardWolfVI> Gosh, a Q6600 with 4 GB RAM shouldn't be this slow :(
[17:32] <Machtin> emonkey: any hint on which packages to upgrade/reconfigure/whatever?
[17:32] <emonkey> Machtin: good question, i upgraded just all which where new in the repos
[17:33] <CydeSwype> yeah, and compiz was very slow for me with karmic.  i've always had to kill off compiz and revert to metacity as part of my boot
[17:33]  * emonkey has no compiz, I use kde
[17:33] <CydeSwype> nvidia-settings wants to see nvidia (not nv) in the xorg.conf, but that has the side-effect of initiating compiz
[17:33] <CydeSwype> ah
[17:34] <RichardWolfVI> emonkey: KDE also has compiz, jus sayin'
[17:34] <RichardWolfVI> *just
[17:34] <Machtin> emonkey: hm, kay.. i just rebooted 15 minutes ago or so.. should be the latest packages.. it's chroot /dev/root-partition /, not more, right?
[17:34] <Dr_Willis> kde has composting I think. is the 'proper' term isent it?
[17:34] <emonkey> RichardWolfVI: yes but i only use the desktop effects provided by kwin
[17:34] <Dr_Willis> Compositing. :)
[17:34] <virtuald> yay composting <3
[17:35] <RichardWolfVI> well, Metacity has compositing also, but right now is slower than ever
[17:35] <Dr_Willis> Plasmoids and Compost! and Gangleons!
[17:35] <Machtin> and then: how did you deactivate the nvidia-driver? simply wrote nv in the xorg.conf, emonkey?
[17:35] <emonkey> yes and they're not working right know because I use nv and not nvidia . Unfortunately everything is a bit slow withoout, but better than no system ... ;)
[17:35] <emonkey> Machtin: yes
[17:36] <Machtin> very well.. will try that too :) will be back soon *waves*
[17:36] <emonkey> My KDE deactivated compositing because of too slow animations providied by the oss-driver
[17:37] <emonkey> *provided
[17:38] <RichardWolfVI> Is there any lnk on this breakage?
[17:38] <emonkey> don't know but there are two others in our channel with this problem, at least one because of grub
[17:41]  * emonkey had only a 8.04 for the chroot ... :)  I should burn a new CD as soon as this problems are fixed.
[17:41] <cjwatson> RichardWolfVI: advising people to remove grub-pc in favour of grub just makes it harder for us to diagnose and fix problems in grub2 :(
[17:42] <RichardWolfVI> cjwatson: I wasn't advising that
[17:42] <cjwatson> "get rid of grub-pc and grub-common as well"?
[17:42] <RichardWolfVI> I'm advising purging and reinstalling grub, whichever version they are using
[17:42] <cjwatson> sorry, I read that as advising him to remove it permanently
[17:42] <cjwatson> ok
[17:44] <RichardWolfVI> My system ewas working almost well, but after further upgrades,. everything is very sluggish
[17:45] <kingspook> In Karmic, where is grub's menu.lst?
[17:46] <RichardWolfVI> kingspook: Can't boot either?
[17:46] <cjwatson> kingspook: grub2 uses grub.cfg, not menu.lst
[17:46] <kingspook> I can boot.
[17:47] <cjwatson> (although for many things you should actually edit /etc/default/grub instead)
[17:47] <Nafai> Still having problems :(
[17:47] <kingspook> Well, I'm looking to change boot order.
[17:47] <virtuald> is it safe to reboot now?
[17:47] <cjwatson> kingspook: in what way exactly?
[17:47] <kingspook> Against all wisdom, I'm going to put Karmic Koala on the lab machines, but they need to default boot into Windows.
[17:48] <RichardWolfVI> virtuald: At least I got to have a graphical session now
[17:48] <virtuald> :)
[17:48] <virtuald> nice
[17:48] <cjwatson> kingspook: well, that's possible, but it would be easier to just make it have a different default at the menu. Would that be acceptable?
[17:48] <virtuald> does things crash at random?
[17:48] <kingspook> cjwatson: I'm not sure I follow...
[17:48] <virtuald> i know pulseaudio does but other than that?
[17:48] <RichardWolfVI> kingspook: Karmic is broken right now, what a little while
[17:48] <RichardWolfVI> at least for the next Alpha
[17:49] <cjwatson> kingspook: do you care specifically about the order, or would it be enough for it to default to Windows even if Windows isn't the first thing in the menu?
[17:49] <RichardWolfVI> *wait
[17:49] <kingspook> cjwatson: default to Windows, order irrelevant.
[17:50] <virtuald> how did that apt-listbugs project that i read about on the mailing lists a while ago turn out?
[17:50] <nonix4> Does /etc/event.d exist in Karmic?
[17:50] <drs305> kingspook: Take a look at this link about Grub 2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2
[17:50] <cjwatson> kingspook: ok, so look in /boot/grub/grub.cfg and fish out the name of the menu item for Windows
[17:50] <kingspook> RichardWolfVI: Well, I need to put Linux on now, and I don't feel like doing it again in a month...plus, it'd be good for the CS students to learn to deal with the occasional OS bug...they are in the OS class after all...
[17:50] <Nafai> Is there an ETA for a fix for the current main problems?
[17:50] <cjwatson> kingspook: here, it's "Windows Vista (loader) (on /dev/sda3)"
[17:51] <virtuald> i have an /etc/event.d/ with control-alt-delete and sulogin in it
[17:51] <Machtin> *sigh* didn't really help to replace nvidia with nv.. still hangs on booting, emonkey :(
[17:51] <cjwatson> kingspook: taking that as an example, edit /etc/default/grub, find the GRUB_DEFAULT= line, and make it read GRUB_DEFAULT="Windows Vista (loader) (on /dev/sda3)" (the quotes are important)
[17:51] <cjwatson> kingspook: then run 'sudo update-grub'
[17:51] <cjwatson> that ought to do it
[17:51] <emonkey> Machtin: I'm sorry ...
[17:51] <Machtin> not your fault!
[17:51] <kingspook> cjwatson: sounds good, I'll test it out.
[17:51] <cjwatson> Nafai: the bulk of them should be fixed now
[17:51] <Machtin> just wanted to 'report back'
[17:52] <Machtin> though, didn't even get chroot to work.. but i could mount the fs.
[17:52] <emonkey> thank you :)
[17:52] <cjwatson> (FWIW I don't think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2 documents this use of GRUB_DEFAULT yet)
[17:52] <Nafai> cjwatson: So all I should need to do is the chroot stuff and apt-get dist-upgrade and then reboot?
[17:52] <cjwatson> Nafai: well, it depends what problems you're having
[17:53] <Nafai> udev and fscking all the time are the main ones right now
[17:53] <Nafai> At least the ones I see, perhaps more after I resolve those
[17:53] <cjwatson> fscking all the time is an entirely separate problem that's actually not directly related to the current boot extravaganza
[17:53] <cjwatson> there's some work being done on that and the most recent kernel *may* help (but may not, there are several interlocking causes)
[17:53] <cjwatson> "udev" - be more specific
[17:54] <Nafai> Sure, let me try booting and see what the exact messages are
[17:55] <Nafai> uknown key 'SYMLINK{unique}  in /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules and a few others
[17:55] <Nafai> But it is not stopping me from getting to gdm, so perhaps that is negligible
[17:55] <cjwatson> that's just a warning
[17:55] <Nafai> ok
[17:56] <cjwatson> it's not fixed yet
[17:56] <Nafai> I'm able to log in now, so I'm less concerned :)
[17:56] <Nafai> Thanks for the help
[17:56] <cjwatson> right, the libexpat1 and dbus fixes were the main relevant ones today
[17:56] <kingspook> daemon startup (ie. sshd) isn't also changed in koala, is it?
[17:56] <cjwatson> plus a few things to try to reduce the incidence of people getting hosed by partial upgrades
[17:56] <cjwatson> kingspook: some daemon startup is, but not sshd yet
[17:57] <kingspook> Huh, is the next alpha still on schedule to be released tomorrow?
[17:58] <cjwatson> so the release manager tells me
[17:59] <kingspook> Well...maybe I'll wait until tomorrow then.
[17:59] <kingspook> It'll be cutting it a bit close.
[18:09] <dto> hey Nafai
[18:10] <dto> desktop notifications come up about an inch below the top right corner of the screen, not right up against the panel where they should go. what do i do?
[18:11] <DanaG> It's a "feature".
[18:11] <RichardWolfVI> dio: they are supposed to be that way now
[18:12] <DanaG> It looks really stupid.
[18:12] <DanaG> The least they could do, would be to swap the two... that is, normal ones at the top, volume-change ones at the bottom.
[18:12]  * nonix4 ponders why images built with ltsp-build-client only manage to boot for --dist hardy and earlier, but not karmic nor jaunty when the command itself is ran on jaunty...
[18:12] <RichardWolfVI> well, it asn't as dumb as putting them in the middle
[18:12] <Michalxo> dto, :D
[18:12] <Michalxo> update ;)
[18:13] <Machtin> what's the reason that it tells me "permission denied", if i try to chroot into my mounted root-partition (when i'm on a live cd with root or sudo)
[18:13] <RichardWolfVI> It seems that Ubuntu way is fixing what it's not broken.
[18:13] <Michalxo> dto, or I think It's configurable by 0.21 or so
[18:13] <Michalxo> mac_v, sudo?
[18:13] <Michalxo> Machtin, sudo
[18:13] <DanaG> oh, and they broke the old-style brightness control in gnome-power-manager, too.
[18:13] <Michalxo> sorry mac_v
[18:14] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[18:14] <Machtin> Michalxo: i DO use sudo
[18:14] <Michalxo> sudo -s ? :)
[18:14] <dto> oh yeah, volume is at the top, whereas pidgin notificiations are 1 row down
[18:14] <Machtin> nah, did sudo su
[18:14] <mac_v> dto: thats the design
[18:15] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: Sudo?
[18:15] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: Sudo?
[18:15] <Michalxo> well....  Would you give us the full input/output?
[18:17] <Michalxo> TLF, nevermind ;)
[18:17] <virtuald> in the gnome panel and this irssi window
[18:17] <TLF> Michalxo: oh, mark shuttlework
[18:17] <TLF> Michalxo: did it said something about migration assistant? :)
[18:17] <mac_v> or rather > mark shuttleworth
[18:17] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: What you wrote in the terminal, and the output
[18:18] <DanaG> I've also always thought that having volume-change wait for the notification OF volume change... is a bad idea.
[18:18] <Machtin> RichardWolfVI: well.. I'm not on the live cd any more..
[18:18] <DanaG> It results in horrible lag.
[18:18] <Michalxo> TLF, heh.. sorry, nope :-)
[18:18] <DanaG> I should make a video of that, some time.
[18:18] <TLF> Michalxo: oh :(
[18:18] <RichardWolfVI> Oh well...
[18:18] <Michalxo> DanaG, you can always use that applet, it works OK :)
[18:19] <DanaG> oh, and now I get no brightness-change bubble at all under gnome-stracciatella-session.
[18:19] <Machtin> RichardWolfVI: but i googled.. it applied to this: http://mandrivausers.org/index.php?/topic/36838-why-cant-i-perform-chroot-to-mandriva-from-ubuntu/
[18:20]  * DanaG has to go elsewhere now.
[18:20] <DanaG> bye for now.
[18:20] <Machtin> byebye
[18:24] <TLF> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-migration-assistant
[18:24] <TLF> what it does mean the latest "deferred" here? That it will be launched along alpha6?
[18:26] <Machtin> Come on.. i just want to be able to boot again :o
[18:26] <[31d1]> dagnabbit my bug got marked as a dupe
[18:27] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: give me the out put of sudo fdisk -l
[18:27] <Seren__> hi there, is it safe to upgrade upstart/usplash now ? (on the main karmic repo )
[18:27] <Machtin> hm, can't.. am on windows now.. but sdb3 is the disc i want to mount
[18:28] <dutchie> can I upgrade now?
[18:28] <Machtin> rather not, i'd say.
[18:29] <robin0800> dutchie: see topic
[18:29] <virtuald> ok so ntpdate failed to update on boot because the networking script didn't work. so the time must have been read wrong from the rtc. where is it configured?
[18:29] <virtuald> also firefox froze on updating time
[18:29] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: Well, if you expect to boot again, you should be on a live CD, to start with
[18:29] <virtuald> 3.5
[18:29] <dutchie> i saw that, just wondering if it was out of date, because cjwatson said he'd have it fixed last night iirc
[18:30] <Machtin> RichardWolfVI: fair enough, i'll reboot
[18:30] <Michalxo> Seeker`, amd64 whole system always up to date :)
[18:30] <Machtin> brb.
[18:30] <cjwatson> dutchie: not just me
[18:31] <cjwatson> dutchie: the worst of the issues are fixed, but some people still have problems
[18:31] <xcdfgkjhgcv> cjwatson: My system won't even boot!
[18:32] <dutchie> OK, I won't upgrade this system but I'll see if my netbook boots
[18:32] <RichardWolfVI> xcdfgkjhgcv: Boot on a LiveCD, purge grub and reinstall it.
[18:32] <robin0800> dutchie: I downloaded a daily a nd X won't start
[18:32] <RichardWolfVI> While on a chroot on your system.
[18:32] <xcdfgkjhgcv> RichardWolfVI: I can't burn a Live CD without a PC to burn one with.
[18:32] <cjwatson> xcdfgkjhgcv: yes, you're one of the "some people" then, unfortunately I'm not an expert in fixing it - I was just sorting out the builds
[18:33] <cjwatson> so shouting at me isn't going to help you
[18:33] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I need to borrow a USB drive.
[18:33] <cjwatson> however, you upgraded mid-breakage, as I recall
[18:33] <RichardWolfVI> xcdfgkjhgcv: So do it.
[18:33] <cjwatson> so if you haven't managed to upgrade further since then, your system will certainly still be broken
[18:34] <oldude67> ok is it just me or a fresh install of alpha 5 not allowing to add gnome? if you install kubuntu?
[18:34] <robin0800> cjwatson: if you have an alternate cd you can use rescue
[18:34] <cjwatson> robin0800: it's not me having the problems :-) p.s. I wrote rescue mode in the alternate CD so I know it's there ;-)
[18:34] <virtuald> isn't time saved in the hardware clock on shutdown?
[18:35] <cjwatson> virtuald: the logic is much more horrible than you might hope
[18:35] <virtuald> :(
[18:35] <cjwatson> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareClock is the result of our last serious analysis of how it all (works | should work)
[18:35] <virtuald> thank you
[18:35] <robin0800> cjwatson: many thanks then saved me many times
[18:36] <[31d1]> cjwatson: new boot dealie is faaast. http://lrrr.us/boot.png yay :)
[18:36] <cjwatson> robin0800: good goodd
[18:36] <cjwatson> -d
[18:37] <cjwatson> [31d1]: nice
[18:38] <[31d1]> down from 8-9 seconds before the reorganization
[18:38] <BluesKaj> is there any advantage except just distance , to using the regular archive.ubuntu vs the us.archive.ubuntu repos ?
[18:38] <cjwatson> BluesKaj: right now, none, they resolve to the same IP addresses
[18:39] <BluesKaj> cjwatson,ok thanks
[18:40] <cjwatson> BluesKaj: in general it's worth using the per-country names because, when they are different from archive.ubuntu.com, they'll likely be somewhere that's closer on the network, and will help reduce overloading on archive.ubuntu.com
[18:41] <thebishop> would it be difficult to add a "Fix Grub" tool to the liveCD?  For instance, if someone installed Windows after Ubuntu and blew out their mbr
[18:42] <BluesKaj> cjwatson, right , I used to switch to mainserver from the ca.archives cuz the canadian repos servers were so darn slow.
[18:43] <BluesKaj> !grub | thebishop
[18:44] <BluesKaj> cjwatson, too many (k)ubuntu users here :)
[18:44] <thebishop> BluesKaj, i know how to fix it myself
[18:44] <thebishop> but for "normal" people
[18:44] <BluesKaj> normal ppl don't use linux :)
[18:45] <thebishop> isn't that contradictory to the whole idea of Ubuntu?
[18:45] <BluesKaj> jk ..nm
[18:45] <Ian_Corne> ubuntu+1 isn't for normal ppl
[18:45] <cjwatson> thebishop: there's a long-standing bug about it which we'd like to fix at some point
[18:45] <thebishop> :)
[18:45] <Ian_Corne> :p
[18:46] <cjwatson> it's not entirely trivial, really we'd want it to be part of something just ever so slightly more general rather than being a hack for grub alone
[18:46] <cjwatson> FWIW saying "contradictory to the whole idea of Ubuntu" tends to make developers go and do something else rather than arguing about it though ... ;-)
[18:46] <thebishop> hahaha
[18:47] <thebishop> nelson mandela is crying...
[18:47] <kingspook> apt-proxy vs. apt-cacher vs. approx -- any advice?
[18:51] <virtuald> is it safe to use ext4 with grub yet?
[18:51] <virtuald> grub2
[18:52] <RichardWolfVI> virtuald well, I had been usin ext4 in grub2 for a long while
[18:52] <Dr_Willis> i use ext4 with grub all the time.
[18:52] <Dr_Willis> and on the last release also
[18:52] <virtuald> :)
[18:52] <Dr_Willis> and with grub2 :)
[18:53] <Michalxo> virtuald, yes.. 3rd time here yes :)
[18:53] <Michalxo> and many others around will agree ;)
[18:53] <virtuald> ok good
[18:53] <RichardWolfVI> still no updates...
[18:54] <robin0800> whats still broken in karmic?
[18:56] <RichardWolfVI> Usplash and 3D and video stuff for me now
[18:56] <RichardWolfVI> a couple of hours ago, I couldn't boot
[18:57] <der_schreiner> hello
[18:57] <Michalxo> robin0800, everytime something else :)
[18:59] <der_schreiner> are you guys also still have some udev errors will booting?
[18:59] <der_schreiner> and aptd
[18:59] <xcdfgkjhgcv> der_schreiner: My PC won't even boot.
[18:59] <der_schreiner> what can you do atm?
[18:59] <arand> der_schreiner: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/430654 << still aplies for me
[19:03] <cjwatson> virtuald: it should work, but there've been scattered reports of problems on some ext4 filesystems - we haven't tracked down exactly why yet
[19:04] <cjwatson> der_schreiner: the udev warnings are harmless
[19:04] <der_schreiner> ok thx
[19:04] <virtuald> ok
[19:05] <cjwatson> if you're having boot problems, it's due to something else
[19:06] <virtuald> i haven't rebooted, i let the computer sleep the night before
[19:07] <der_schreiner> good idea ;)
[19:12] <sunshinepants> crashplan for cross-platform backups - opinions?
[19:13] <sunshinepants> sorry wrong channel
[19:13] <Machtin> okay.. that "brb" didn't work out to well.
[19:14] <Machtin> however, i managed to chroot into my normal system.. and can now do whatever is needed to get that system boot again.. anyone able to help me then?
[19:16] <Machtin> arand: it continues booting? seriously? how long would i have to wait for my system to boot?
[19:16] <Machtin> after the udev-messages i mean
[19:16] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: purge the following packages: grub2, grup-pc, grub-common and os-prober
[19:16] <e-jat> anyone know how to solve this bug 428365
[19:17] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: After that intall grub2
[19:17] <RichardWolfVI> *install
[19:18] <Machtin> okay, did that
[19:18] <RichardWolfVI> OK, that would do, then
[19:19] <RichardWolfVI> don't forget to update everything else
[19:19] <Machtin> so, i can reboot?
[19:20] <cjwatson> uh, is there a reason to believe that reinstalling grub will make a difference here?
[19:20] <cjwatson> I realise it did for you, but I don't think it will for most people
[19:21] <cjwatson> if Machtin is having problems with the new upstartified boot process, reinstalling grub won't make any difference
[19:21] <Machtin> Hm.. i don't  see why this should be grub-related, but i'm willing to try.
[19:21] <Machtin> cjwatson: what will make a difference then?
[19:22] <cjwatson> I don't know, you haven't described your problem in all that much detail
[19:22] <RichardWolfVI> Well, I'm trying my best shot on a situation that it's been widespread
[19:22] <e-jat> so any solution for it yet/
[19:22] <cjwatson> booting with --debug as a boot parameter might help to gather information; however unfortunately I have to go
[19:22] <Machtin> well i also get these udev-stuff warning messages.. and then it stops booting
[19:23] <RichardWolfVI> And I'd been affected, also.
[19:23] <cjwatson> RichardWolfVI: understood, it's just that I'm the grub2 maintainer in Ubuntu and I have absolutely no idea of how reinstalling grub would make the slightest difference
[19:23] <RichardWolfVI> less do I
[19:23] <cjwatson> and frankly I don't *believe* that it would make a difference if the problem comes after the kernel boots
[19:23] <RichardWolfVI> but it's a common procedure to reinstall packages if they're not behaving properly
[19:23] <cjwatson> if it appears to make a difference, I think it's more likely that either something else was also changed, or the problem is inconsistent (i.e. doesn't happen every time)
[19:24] <cjwatson> RichardWolfVI: but grub's job is done once the kernel and initrd are in place
[19:24] <Machtin> well, grub does behave properly.. i think
[19:24] <cjwatson> if the problem is after that, grub *is* behaving properly
[19:24] <RichardWolfVI> well, if the Kernel loads, I guess, updating the packages from a chroot would do
[19:24] <Machtin> however.. is there any hint with that little description that's available?
[19:25] <der_schreiner> if grubs work start with init=/bin/bash get network driver and network up and update
[19:26] <Machtin> well, i did update via live cd now
[19:26] <der_schreiner> k
[19:26] <Machtin> didn't change anything, though..
[19:26] <der_schreiner> over chroot?
[19:26] <Machtin> yup
[19:27] <der_schreiner> so i would try it with the boot parameter
[19:28] <gnata> ok looks like karmic is broken today
[19:28] <Machtin> don't get it.. and don't see the point (no offense.. don't get me wrong)
[19:28] <gnata> x does start
[19:28] <gnata> but no keyboard
[19:28] <gnata> no mouse
[19:29] <gnata> no usb at all
[19:29] <der_schreiner> oh yeah
[19:29] <der_schreiner> i know this
[19:29] <gnata> no touchpad
[19:29] <gnata> and? do we know what is going on?
[19:29] <der_schreiner> i had this yesterday (gmt+2)
[19:30] <e-jat_> me too ..
[19:30] <gnata> me too
[19:30] <der_schreiner> grub2?
[19:30] <e-jat_> after upgrading the mountall package ... now .. stuck at booting
[19:30] <gnata> but do a dailly safe-upgrade
[19:30] <gnata> to report bug
[19:30] <gnata> is was broken yesterday
[19:31] <gnata> I repaired it
[19:31] <gnata> it is once again broken today
[19:31] <gnata> I think I just have to wait,chroot and upgrade non?
[19:34] <Machtin> well.. i'll try to reboot once more. if it won't work.. i'll try again tomorrow
[19:34] <Machtin> thanks for now! *waves*
[19:34] <e-jat_> :(
[19:38] <AlanBell> just upgrading the kid's computer now. . .  hope it works
[19:39] <MagicFab> AlanBell, if it works... don't update daily.
[19:39] <RichardWolfVI> Ok, I'm switching to Windows for the time being, this slowness is unbearable :(
[19:41] <Heikki123> lol, i switched to linux because windows was too slow :) And someone is doing the other way...
[19:41] <Heikki123> linux is much faster for me
[19:41] <Heikki123> ubuntu
[19:41] <mac_v> anyone notice , after the recent compiz update, that the window jumps up when closing
[19:41] <Machtin> nah, but i noticed nothing works atm :P
[19:42] <mac_v> lol
[19:42] <Severian> RichardWolfVI, talk about unbearable.  Why go to something as unpleasant as Windows.  If you need to get work done on a machine, Use Ubuntu Stable(Jaunty for now)  If you want to help test, these breaks can happen.  They don't happen often, but you have to assume they can.
[19:42] <blueyed> upstart broke the system? mountall appears to hang for me forever (updated yesterday)
[19:43] <blueyed> any pointers?
[19:43] <Machtin> at least i got my fallback operating system.. it's very uncomfortable.. but you can't expect more from a gameloader i guess.. i mean.. it's windows.
[19:43] <blueyed> faster than a hardy live cd at least, Machtin ;)
[19:44] <Machtin> :> agreed.
[19:44] <webbb82> isnt the alpha 6 due out soon
[19:44] <Machtin> booting windows is just like switching on a xbox for me :D
[19:44] <der_schreiner> lol
[19:45] <Machtin> (i have no xbox, though)
[19:48]  * genii-around makes more coffee
[19:50] <Heikki123> software development is fun. when everything is working, there is a need to break everything ;)
[19:50] <Severian> webbb82, The schedule says alpha6 is due tomorrow.  I would imagine they want to fix the current problems before rolloing out alpha 6.
[19:51] <Heikki123> i think i have alpha 1, and i have no problems
[19:51] <Jaymac> I just installed karmic alpha 5 on a dual boot system - grub is giving me an error 2 message - is this something anyone else has experienced?
[19:51] <Heikki123> oh sorry, the only problem is the sound not working properly
[19:52] <Heikki123> pulseaudio crashes sometimes
[19:52] <Heikki123> but anyhows, nites mates!
[20:04] <mike> join eeepc
[20:14] <[GuS_atWork]> Hi guys, is possible that latest kernel upgrade broke all my hardware support? like sound, network, etc.?
[20:14] <[GuS_atWork]> ops.. i see the topic...
[20:16] <Mike1> Neither karmic nor the buildds are in a working state right now.
[20:16] <Mike1> wtf? why that?
[20:16] <blueyed> Karmic has been (some kind of) smooth during the last months, but just now it's all so bad again. It's bad because those upstart changes could have been tested before being uploaded.  I dunno if it fails for me because I have some "bind" mounts, or something else. And I'm not very motivated to test this using the reboot-oh-no-slow-livecd approach.
[20:17] <Mike1> Netbook Remix is buggy here :-(
[20:17] <[GuS_atWork]> Mike1: same here... today i cant make my system work correctly....
[20:17] <blueyed> Mike1: you can be glad if you can boot the system! ;)
[20:17] <[GuS_atWork]> but nowi saw the topic...
[20:17] <acicula> been having some issues earlier, much better now though
[20:17] <Mike1> but what does the topic mean??
[20:17] <Mike1> is ubuntu dead or what?
[20:17] <blueyed> nothing. just watch it.
[20:18] <Mike1> watch what?
[20:18] <Machtin> Well.. i can't boot at all. Will wait for someone to change that topic :f
[20:18] <Mike1> :D
[20:18] <[GuS_atWork]> but is cause of the kernel of something else?
[20:18] <genii-around> Machtin: I'm in same situation.
[20:18] <TLF> anyone here used migration assistant during install?
[20:18] <Mike1> [GuS_atWork]: try an other kernel and you will find out ;-)
[20:19]  * genii-around goes back to surfing freom livecd
[20:19] <arvind_khadri> hi, i want to use one of my drives as ext3 for storing data, how can i make it writable by user?
[20:19] <[GuS_atWork]> Mike1: too late, i've installed again the 5 alpha :P
[20:19] <[GuS_atWork]> since i've deleted the older kernels :S
[20:19] <[GuS_atWork]> bad move :P
[20:19] <blueyed> Machtin: do you have bind mounts? bug 430880
[20:19] <Machtin> [GuS_atWork]: i tried another kernel.
[20:20] <Machtin> blueyed: sorry.. i have no clue what bind mounts are.
[20:20] <acicula> !roadmap
[20:20] <blueyed> check your /etc/fstab (search for "bind"), but then probably not.
[20:20] <blueyed> !upstart
[20:21] <blueyed> !performance
[20:21] <blueyed> !sex
[20:21] <blueyed> !livecd
[20:21] <blueyed> !karmic
[20:21] <blueyed> !karma
[20:21] <blueyed> !anything
[20:22] <genii-around> !botabuse | blueyed
[20:22] <blueyed> !nothing
[20:22] <QPrime> blueyed: bored?  waiting for a the init/upstart situation to be sorted out?
[20:22] <acicula> blueyed: please stop that
[20:23] <Machtin> blueyed: no, didn't use anything like that
[20:23] <acicula> anyway with the last alpha? or beta comming up it is time for people to put stuff in, probably why you are experiencing more problems now then before
[20:25] <_markus__> lo
[20:25] <_markus__> anything new about the karmic breakage?
[20:25] <Machtin> nope.
[20:26]  * QPrime wraps a big init script around upstart :P
[20:26] <_markus__> darn :-(
[20:26] <_markus__> can't boot, can't develop. that sux
[20:26]  * _markus__ slaps himself
[20:27] <QPrime> _markus__: its not called an alpha for nothing.  Canonical just broke init/upstart to remind us all of that.
[20:27]  * acicula hands _markus__ a stable ubuntu 9.04 usb stick
[20:28] <_markus__> Is there an easy fix? I can use 9.04 and mount the partition read-write
[20:28] <_markus__> acicula: thanks, got one ;)
[20:28] <acicula> well all it did here was hang on windbind during boot, killed that , updated and it worked again
[20:28] <acicula> is there a bug/thread about the issue?
[20:29] <QPrime> _markus__: you can mod your interfaces file to get net connectivity and hammer apt-get update until it boots
[20:30] <_markus__> QPrime: I can't boot into the system that far. I can't get a shell with the system, I can only use another system to access the partition and I don't know where it hangs ...
[20:30] <Adapter> anybody seen catweazle
[20:30] <_markus__> recovery doens't cut it either. seems the / partition gets mounted read-only but no init scripts get executed at all
[20:31] <_markus__> ctrl-alt-del reboot, though
[20:31] <QPrime> _markus__: Hrmmm.
[20:31] <[GuS_atWork]> acicula: i think is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/430125
[20:31] <der_schreiner> this istnt aprob
[20:31] <der_schreiner> mount -o remount,rw /
[20:31] <der_schreiner> then you got write support
[20:32] <_markus__> der_schreiner: as I said, when I boot directly into the system I get no shell. I can use *another* system to gain r/w access; if I knew what to fix, I could do it
[20:32] <taneli> _markus__: do you have /dev/pts
[20:33] <David-T> anyone know what changed to make evolution start automatically (in the background) when you log in to gnome in karmic?
[20:33] <David-T> I'd like to turn it off since I just discovered it using 4GB of RAM + 6 GB of swap....
[20:33] <_markus__> taneli: I can't boot into the karmic installation to get a shell. I can use a 9.04 CD to get r/w access to that partition
[20:34] <_markus__> This describes exactly my problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/430125/comments/7
[20:34] <tormod> _markus__, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery
[20:35] <_markus__> (however I'm not sure about the mountall thing anymore ...
[20:35] <[GuS_atWork]> btw, is safe to upgrade now? i've installed again alpha 5 cause of this... is the bug fixed?
[20:35] <_markus__> tormod: that sounds like a plan, will try that, thanks!
[20:36] <Machtin> uhm
[20:38] <QPrime> doing a dist-upgrade on my broken test box now to see whats still broken
[20:38] <blueyed> _markus__: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.searchtext=mountall&field.has_patch=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_no_package=&field.status=NEW&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status=CONFIRMED&field.status=TRIAGED&field.status=INPROGRESS&field.status=FIXCOMMITTED&field.bug_reporter=&field.assignee= - they might all describe some part of your p
[20:40] <Machtin> 213440     ubottu> Launchpad bug 430125 in upstart "Karmic Latest - upstart kept back - missing mountall" [Critical,Fix released]
[20:41] <Machtin> did i get that right? there's a fix now for the not-able-to-boot-problem?
[20:41] <natewiebe13> Machtin: i did a dist-upgrade and my karmic is working great
[20:42] <Machtin> wonderful
[20:42] <Machtin> via livecd and chroot?
[20:42] <natewiebe13> also there is now a "ubuntu software store" which is new
[20:42] <natewiebe13> recovery mode
[20:42] <natewiebe13> went to root term with networking
[20:43] <natewiebe13> Machtin: ^
[20:43] <SiDi> Is anyone else lacking colors in bash, and aptitude / aptget autocompletion ?
[20:43] <idyle> Hi, I am running jaunty and earlier I did do-release-upgrade -d, and it was about to install, but I realized I didn't have time and aborted -- now when I try it, it says everything is up to date
[20:44] <natewiebe13> SiDi: like how the "ls" command gives colors?
[20:44] <natewiebe13> idyle: try update-manager -d
[20:44] <SiDi> natewiebe13: yeh... i got no colors anymore
[20:44] <NoelJB> SiDi, I lack the colors on my jaunty -> karmic upgrade, but I get them on my clean karmic install.
[20:44] <SiDi> i suspect i'm running the wrong shell
[20:44] <idyle> natewiebe13: yup did, says everything is up to date
[20:45] <SiDi> NoelJB: this is a clean install
[20:45] <natewiebe13> SiDi: working fine for me
[20:45] <natewiebe13> idyle: strange
[20:45] <natewiebe13> idyle: usually i do fresh installs, but if i were to upgrade, i would wait until at least beta
[20:46] <idyle> natewiebe13: alright, I suppose I can do that -- is there an ETA on the beta?
[20:46] <natewiebe13> idyle: how far did the upgrade get?
[20:46] <NoelJB> idyle, Karmic beta?
[20:46] <idyle> I never started it, I aborted before it started
[20:46] <idyle> NoelJB: yes
[20:46] <NoelJB> !ReleaseSchedule
[20:46] <NoelJB> One sec ...
[20:47] <natewiebe13> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
[20:47] <idyle> cool thanks guys
[20:47] <NoelJB> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
[20:47] <duffydack> Alpha 6 is tomorrow..    so this latest disaster is bad timing...
[20:47] <idyle> ok so we're getting close to beta!!!
[20:48] <natewiebe13> duffydack: i was talking to cjwatson, he said that they wont release alpha 6 until the problem is completely solved
[20:48] <duffydack> I`d assume its back to "working" order by then
[20:48] <natewiebe13> duffydack: so ive got no worries
[20:48] <natewiebe13> duffydack: im running karmic just fine
[20:48] <NoelJB> duffydack, I referred to it as ill-conceived based *solely* on the timing.  Colin pointed out that they could not wait for karmic+1 (if avoidable) because L will be an LTS release.  They really wanted to get all of the testing done in Karmic to prep for L.
[20:49] <aboSamoor1> on 10th of September was the second drop of artwork, is there any noticeable changes ?
[20:49] <NoelJB> And that's a very fair point.  They can back it out if they *have* to do so, but perhaps better to get everyone dealing with it now than in L.
[20:49] <natewiebe13> aboSamoor1: all ive noticed is that the old boot screen fades in and out
[20:50] <aboSamoor1> natewiebe13: I hope they change the xsplash, it is not cool
[20:50] <natewiebe13> you mean the throbber glitch?
[20:50] <natewiebe13> or the background?
[20:51] <RichardWolfVI> it seems the sytem is working properly again
[20:51] <natewiebe13> RichardWolfVI: it is here
[20:51] <aboSamoor1> natewiebe13: I mean the animation is weird and the background is boring
[20:51] <[31d1]> is there a new disaster since yesterday's?
[20:52] <natewiebe13> background can be changed.. ive done it myself already.. and as for the animation.. it is a bug which can be fixed by replacing the throbber png
[20:52] <kingspook> cjwatson: Still here? Setting grub's default by name didn't seem to work...
[20:52] <QPrime> after the last dist-upgrade things seem (mostly) functional.
[20:53] <natewiebe13> QPrime: agreed
[20:54] <QPrime> natewiebe13: yay! :)
[20:54] <aboSamoor1> natewiebe13: the throbber png bug was just fixed before an hour :)
[20:54] <natewiebe13> QPrime: no more running off of a livecd !
[20:55] <sparr> Why does tesseract-ocr depend on tesseract-ocr-deu instead of tesseract-ocr-eng?  I know, very american-centric of me, but that seems to be the norm for ubuntu and debian packages.
[20:55] <natewiebe13> aboSamoor1: ive still got that bug
[20:55] <AD5300> Hi, I need SERIOUS help with my Ubuntu box. I'm unable to start it up. And before you ask, no, I'm not an inexperienced user. I've been using computers for over 11 years.
[20:55] <NoelJB> QPrime, when you boot, what notices do you get from notify-osd?  I'm seeing one out of multiple that I should be seeing.  If I simply disconnect and reconnect my ethernet cable, I see messages that I ought to have seen initially, for example.
[20:55] <AD5300> Yes. At first, GRUB shows up displaying the boot options, upon booting Ubuntu, usplash starts up and I see the loading bar.Then it drops into a terminal, but there is no output as the quiet option is enabled by default.
[20:55] <AD5300> I am able to type on this terminal, but it appears to be loading somthing.
[20:56] <acicula> what does karmic use couchdb for?
[20:56] <AD5300> Recovery mode freezes on boot
[20:56] <[GuS_atWork]> maybe related to what the topic says AD5300
[20:56] <AD5300> I read the topic, I just wanted to see if anyone could help me...
[20:56] <_markus__> AD5300: sounds like my problem. I've been told to use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery which I'm currently doing; booting a live CD and fixing the broken karmic installation
[20:57] <natewiebe13> AD5300: can you get to the recovery screen where there is a bunch of selections?
[20:57] <Machtin> hm.. i booted the live cd.. but aptitude update doesn't give me anything new after chrooting to my root-partition?
[20:57]  * AD5300 really misses my Ubuntu computer and wishes he didn't have to type this on his windows netbook
[20:57] <AD5300> No, I cant get to recovery screen
[20:58] <QPrime> NoelJB: I'm going to do a warm boot now so I can some sort of baseline, one sec.
[20:58] <AD5300> I THINK it has something to do with a bad init.d script.
[20:58] <natewiebe13> ah.. i was able to get to the recovery screen and do a dist-upgrade :)
[20:58] <AD5300> But I'm not entirely sure.
[20:58] <_markus__> AD5300: the mountall package had some troubles, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.searchtext=mountall&field.has_patch=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_no_package=&field.status=NEW&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status=CONFIRMED&field.status=TRIAGED&field.status=INPROGRESS&field.status=FIXCOMMITTED
[20:58] <_markus__> &field.bug_reporter=&field.assignee=
[20:59] <AD5300> Hold on, I'm gonna go into GRUB on the machine, and turn "quiet" off so I can get some output for you guys...
[20:59]  * AD5300 will also turn off splash.
[20:59] <acicula> doesnt alt-f1 achieve the same result?
[21:00] <AD5300> Ok... booting up so far...
[21:00] <AD5300> Begin: Running /scripts/init-bottom
[21:00] <AD5300> Done.
[21:00] <_markus__> next time I update will be beginning of november .. :p
[21:00] <QPrime> NoelJB: well boot isnt pretty, still getting upstart errors, but it boots.
[21:01] <AD5300> sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk
[21:01] <AD5300> sd 6:0:0:1: [sdc] Attached SCSI removable disk
[21:01] <AD5300> sd 6:0:0:2: [sdd] Attached SCSI removable disk
[21:01] <NoelJB> QPrime, and when you get to the desktop, do you see any NotifyOSD messages?
[21:01] <AD5300> sd 6:0:0:3: [sde] Attached SCSI removable disk
[21:01] <AD5300> That's the last message on the screen.
[21:01] <robin0800_> QPrime: Same here but as you say it still boots
[21:01] <AD5300> Under that there is a flashing Underscore and I am able to type.
[21:01] <AD5300> Ctrl-D does nothing
[21:02] <QPrime> NoelJB: NotifyOSD *seems* to work properly here.
[21:02] <_markus__> AD5300: see my ChrootRecovery link; I just repaired my installation
[21:02] <AD5300> I can reboot the computer using Ctrl-Alt-Del or the SysRq commands
[21:02] <natewiebe13> ive got NotifyOSD working good
[21:03] <natewiebe13> no messages on boot
[21:03] <AD5300> your link got cut off... use like pastebay to paste the URL in and send it again
[21:04] <NoelJB> QPrime, so you get notices at startup for your network connections?  I seem to be seeing a race condition where I miss notices at startup that the same events later result in displaying.
[21:04] <_markus__> AD5300: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery
[21:04] <AD5300> oh... the https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.searchtext=mountall&field.has_patch=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_no_package=&field.status=NEW&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status=CONFIRMED&field.status=TRIAGED&field.status=INPROGRESS&field.status=FIXCOMMITTED link was the one that got cut off.
[21:05] <QPrime> NoelJB: checking a little further.  I had to reconfig to allow NM to manage my interfaces again... one sec.
[21:05] <_markus__> tormod: you saved my day, thanks!
[21:05] <AD5300> Can I use a 7.04 live CD to do the Chroot recovery?
[21:06] <_markus__> no idea
[21:06] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: no
[21:06] <AD5300> What did you use?
[21:07] <RichardWolfVI> Use a Karmic Cd, that will assure you won't mess up your system further
[21:07] <taneli> why wouldn't 7.04 work?
[21:07] <AD5300> I just need a working /etc/resolv.conf
[21:07] <AD5300> from Karmic.
[21:07] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha5
[21:08] <RichardWolfVI> tomorrow Alpha6 will be released
[21:08] <AD5300> Theoretically the only file that matters on the host system is resolv.conf
[21:08] <Guest14347> After updating+reboot now the cryptsetup disk does not come up anymore.. not asking for a password anymore.
[21:08] <AD5300> Great, so I'd waste a CD burning alpha 5 and then a day later get alpha 6? :(
[21:08] <RichardWolfVI> taneli: well, they have diferent packages, to start with
[21:08] <Guest14347> AD5300: use R+Ws
[21:09] <AD5300> Only packages that matter are the bash commands "chmod, chroot".
[21:09] <acicula> AD5300: most cd's will work tbh
[21:09] <taneli> but ChrootRecovery page instructs you to use apt-get inside chroot
[21:09] <RichardWolfVI> Note: The debootstrap utility is usually backwards compatible with older releases, but it may be incompatible with newer releases. For example, the debootstrap that is bundled with Jaunty can prepare a Hardy chroot like we are doing here, but the debootstrap that is bundled with Hardy cannot prepare a Jaunty chroot.
[21:10] <AD5300> Here's the thing -- The PC I'm trying to fix has a CD/DVD burner that works EXCELLENT. I'm on a crappy 9 inch ASUS Eee Netbook with no cd drive... any ideas?
[21:10] <AD5300> :/
[21:10] <RichardWolfVI> taneli: that's from the wiki
[21:10] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: USB thumbdrive
[21:10] <acicula> debootstrap is for doing new installs
[21:11] <kingspook> Does anyone know where I can find docs on Grub2 with a Grub Default that's a label?
[21:11] <AD5300> I have a 4Gb thumb drive, that might work, but can I boot from one?
[21:11] <kingspook> It's referenced on the Grub wiki, but I can't seem to find docs on it _anywhere_
[21:11] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: yes, you can
[21:11] <acicula> AD5300: depends on your bios, but unless you are on archaic hardware it'll work
[21:11] <AD5300> How do I copy the iso to the drive?
[21:11] <NoelJB> kingspook, cjwatson might be your best bet.
[21:12] <AD5300> I built the system myself. The MB is made in '09.Should be able to.
[21:12] <kingspook> NoelJB: Yeah, he's the one who turned me on to it. But it's not working and he appears to be busy/away/etc.
[21:12] <NoelJB> kingspook, pretty late where he is.
[21:12] <DanaG> heh, badly-worded bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/428914
[21:12] <kingspook> Ah. Europe?
[21:13] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
[21:13] <DanaG> !info usb-creator
[21:13] <QPrime> NoelJB: notifyosd seems to work fine.  Karmic does not display the desktop until its 'ready' so you may be missing an initial NM bubble that way.
[21:13] <James147> AD5300: the esiest way to get a bootable usb is to install it to the usb (not recomended) or create a liveusb (usb-creator is an easy way to do that)
[21:13] <AD5300> Is there ANY way to do this without a flash drive? It seems like a pain
[21:13] <RichardWolfVI> Well, no, there isn't
[21:13] <NoelJB> QPrime, yes, that seems to be different from Jaunty, where I see many notices at boot time.
[21:13] <AD5300> I have a working Vista partition on the broken machine.
[21:14] <AD5300> But i don't have a unix shell in vista obviously
[21:14] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: You may overwrite GRub
[21:14] <RichardWolfVI> *GRUB
[21:14] <RichardWolfVI> wait
[21:14] <NoelJB> AD5300, you don't need a unix shell to write a bootable CD :-)
[21:14] <RichardWolfVI> you can boot vista on that computer?
[21:15] <acicula> AD5300: Unetbootin can make usb boot sticks under windows
[21:15] <AD5300> I need a unix shell to mount the partition and copy the files.
[21:15] <AD5300> Yes. Vista works on it.
[21:15] <AD5300> Although I haven't used vista for over 8 months :PP
[21:15] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: Then, burn a LiveCD on vista and you're done
[21:15] <AD5300> Gonna have to break my record.
[21:15] <NoelJB> AD5300, but you don't need a unix shell to burn the ISO to a CD, and then you can boot the live CD.
[21:15] <AD5300> I'll try that... should've thought of that in the 1st place.
[21:16] <AD5300> Is there a limit to how many times I can erase/rewrite a CD-RW? Do they wear out easily?
[21:16] <AD5300> Only have like 5 blank ones around here
[21:16] <acicula> AD5300: yes, and not really
[21:16] <NoelJB> AD5300, personally, the way that I have it is a dedicated GRUB partition that boots to GRUB loaders in one of currently 5 partitions, plus a dedicated swap partition and a large shared data partition.
[21:17] <QPrime> "Ubuntu Store" freaks me out tho... I see a package removal in my future ;)
[21:17] <NoelJB> AD5300, so I can boot and repair using Fedora 11 or Ubuntu 8.04 - Ubuntu 9.10.  I'll get rid of Jaunty for the L alpha.  Hardy will probably survive until the M alpha.
[21:18] <QPrime> not knocking the need for it... but "you know..."
[21:18] <AD5300> I used to use Fedora... I don't like it much...
[21:18] <AD5300> I used fedora from Core 3 to Core 6 before I switched to Ubuntu.
[21:18] <AD5300> Haven't tried it since.
[21:18] <AD5300> Has it gotten much better?
[21:19] <NoelJB> AD5300, everything has gotten better since then.  But specifics would be off-topic.  :-)
[21:19] <guntbert> is the topic still true?
[21:20] <NoelJB> Point, simply, is that you can setup multiple bootable partitions, in case something happens.
[21:20] <QPrime> AD5300: as long as they use YUM I only have a morbid curiosity with RPM based distros
[21:20] <_markus__> AD5300: how are thins going, have you had any success so far?
[21:21] <Michalxo> any cure for today's latest updates? no keyboard,usb,mouse working, x?
[21:21] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: Fedora is over focused on the bleeding edge
[21:22] <RichardWolfVI> gotta get going
[21:22] <Michalxo> no cures? :(
[21:22] <QPrime> Michalxo: many ppl have gotten things working with the latest dist-upgrade
[21:23] <Michalxo> well.. thanks to letting me know
[21:23] <Michalxo> but how do I connect to wireless network via CLI?
[21:23] <QPrime> Michalxo: Its not exactly perfect, but it is working.
[21:24] <Michalxo> I got it to work by wpa_suppliant but I tried it again only in CLI, and had some driver failed issues :-/
[21:24]  * QPrime grabbed his ethernet cable for the update, you'll have to find a bigger brain to do wpa wireless via cli (sorry)
[21:24] <Michalxo> ow..
[21:25] <BUGabundo> olá
[21:25] <Michalxo> QPrime, and command was only dist-upgrade or some apt other?
[21:26] <Michalxo> BUGabundo, hi! got any experience in wifi via cli?
[21:26] <QPrime> Michalxo: apt-get dist-upgrade (after and update of course)
[21:26] <Michalxo> yeah, thanks QPrime :)
[21:26] <QPrime> np
[21:26] <Michalxo> I've got here 2 laptops, I only need a guide :-/
[21:27] <BUGabundo> hey Michalxo QPrime
[21:27] <htrejh> hi
[21:27] <BUGabundo> Michalxo: some
[21:27] <BUGabundo> what do you nee?
[21:27] <_markus__> Michalxo: just to make sure: you don't have some kind of Ubuntu live cd/usb to boot on the broken system?
[21:27] <Michalxo> connect to wifi via CLI
[21:27] <htrejh> i updated my karmic today, and when rebooting i couldn't use my mouse or keyboard anymore, what can be the problem?
[21:28] <Michalxo> _markus__, yes I have... but how to make install there?
[21:28] <Michalxo> htrejh, same problem here, resolving it by <QPrime> Michalxo: apt-get dist-upgrade (after and update of course)
[21:28] <guntbert> htrejh: did you read the topic today?
[21:28] <_markus__> Michalxo: I don't know how broken your system is, but I used the live cd to start a system which has networking (wifi!) enabled and followed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery
[21:28] <htrejh> but how can i type it without keyboard?
[21:29] <Michalxo> htrejh, ctrl+alt+f1 ;) login via CLI
[21:29] <htrejh> no i cant
[21:29] <htrejh> i cant use my keyboard
[21:29] <Michalxo> _markus__, aha now I see :) good
[21:29] <Michalxo> htrejh, no at all?
[21:29] <htrejh> nope
[21:29] <htrejh> i doesnt reactr
[21:29] <Michalxo> then take the tour with me :)
[21:29] <Michalxo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery
[21:30] <Michalxo> hehe, did the same when I got messed up by grub and grub2 :D
[21:30] <Michalxo> thanks _markus__!
[21:30] <htrejh> ok thanks
[21:31] <robin0800_> Michalxo: http://blog.tplus1.com/index.php/2008/06/13/how-to-connect-to-a-wireless-network-from-the-ubuntu-command-line/
[21:32] <Michalxo> thanks robin0800_
[21:33] <QPrime> actually, I take it back.  "Ubuntu Store" is kinda nice.  now, *how* many interfaces to we have to the ubuntu repos?  Wonder how long before the paid offerings turn up...
[21:34] <StevenMyers> Question: Anyone know how to link the /var/www on Ubuntu to Windows XP so the PC IP still loads the root folder for the index of/ ?
[21:35]  * _markus__ doesn't understand that Q at all ...
[21:35] <StevenMyers> I'll re-interate
[21:36] <Guest34883> Hi, I'm wondering whether karmic could use device manager as default. It's a stable plasmoid.
[21:36] <yofel> StevenMyers: mount the ntfs partition somewhere and make /var/www a symlink to the web / folder?
[21:37] <StevenMyers> Say you have Ubuntu on one partition and XP on the other. I can load 192.168.x.x on my Ubuntu side and it shows my IP root directory in my browser because Ubuntu is active and online through that IP. But when I load XP, the IP is not active because Ubuntu is not booted up for me to see.
[21:37] <StevenMyers> yofel: Yes I need the Ubuntu IP to link to the XP IP so the root folder is still active even when XP is loaded.
[21:38] <StevenMyers> example: http://www.stevenmyers.net
[21:38] <yofel> StevenMyers: oh, so you want the ubuntu /var/www to be visible from XP?
[21:38] <StevenMyers> YES
[21:39] <StevenMyers> This way 192.168.x.x is still active and people can still access my server
[21:39] <_markus__> StevenMyers: that's sounds like trouble. Afaik, yes, there are device drivers to access ext3 and such but ... you need a webserver on XP running pointing to that dir and such. Is that really what you want?
[21:40] <yofel> hm... Windows doesn't support any linux file systems, but there are some ext2/3 drivers for windows out there so you could use them to load the ubuntu fs and then set the windows web server up so that it uses it as it's root...
[21:40] <StevenMyers> yofel: Yes that is what I am needing _markus_: that is what I am looking and needing done.
[21:40] <_markus__> It should work with xampp, if the drivers work ...
[21:41] <StevenMyers> _markus_: that is what I was aiming for as well is xampp
[21:41] <_markus__> StevenMyers: well, yeah, find some ext2/ext3 drivers for XP and try it
[21:41] <_markus__> (if that's what your Ubuntu partition is formatted with)
[21:41] <StevenMyers> It is.
[21:41] <StevenMyers> Thanks guys, great support I appreciate it a lot
[21:42] <_markus__> well ... :-) good luck
[21:42] <StevenMyers> Thanks markus. Btw, do you see this domain as being active on your side: http://www.stevenmyers.net ?
[21:42] <_markus__> StevenMyers: yes I did
[21:42] <StevenMyers> Thank you sir.
[21:43] <jtatum> StevenMyers: Don't forget to back up your data :)
[21:43] <_markus__> good idea
[21:43] <StevenMyers> even better tip, thank you jtatum
[21:43] <acicula> StevenMyers: there is an ext2 implementation for windows xp, which can also read ext3 http://www.fs-driver.org/
[21:43] <Michalxo> guys?! is there a way that ubuntu fixes when I am in XP or rebooting it>?! :D
[21:44] <Michalxo> it magically works.. and I did nothing then 2 reboots :-/
[21:44] <StevenMyers> hmm
[21:44] <StevenMyers> That does seem interesting
[21:44] <Michalxo> lol
[21:44] <StevenMyers> Thank you acicula.
[21:44] <Michalxo> had that big-bug as everyone around... and it's fine now
[21:44] <acicula> StevenMyers: running your webpage on your home windows xp machine like that however may not be the best idea
[21:45] <StevenMyers> Safe on linux but not recommended on XP?
[21:45] <acicula> StevenMyers: unless you known a thing or two about running a safe webserver it's not safe on either really
[21:46] <StevenMyers> I have the DNS being updated when my dynamic IP changes, this way I don't have to worry about getting onto linux to update the server information.
[21:46] <StevenMyers> Then I suppose specific port blocking won't help either..
[21:47] <acicula> well running a firewall is never bad, though not really needed on a default ubuntu install. but it wont make a poorly configured webserver secure no
[21:48] <StevenMyers> ok
[21:48] <StevenMyers> Was looking into Firestarter but that scratches it off for me
[21:49] <cjwatson> kingspook: hmm, can't look now but could you file a bug on Ubuntu grub2 with all the details? (/etc/default/grub, /boot/grub/grub.cfg)
[21:49] <BUGabundo> hey cjwatson
[21:50] <BUGabundo> funny to find you here
[21:50] <cjwatson> kingspook: you won't find docs on the GRUB wiki because it's a patch I've sent upstream but hasn't yet been merged there since they're preparing to release 1.97
[21:50] <BUGabundo> humm
[21:50] <BUGabundo> compiz is broken
[21:50] <BUGabundo> I'm loosing shortcuts :(
[21:50] <BUGabundo> anyone else?
[21:51] <StevenMyers> That with karmic?
[21:51] <BUGabundo> of course
[21:52] <BUGabundo> what # are we in StevenMyers? :)
[21:52] <BUGabundo> where's dtchen?
[21:52] <BUGabundo> I need his help debuging PA 100% CPU usage
[21:52] <StevenMyers> Ah. What;s your RAM usage right now?
[21:53] <dto> hi folks. is it possible to temporarily prevent my kernel from being upgraded during system upgrades?
[21:53] <dto> these are known good so i want to keep them for now
[21:53] <BUGabundo> Mem:       4060464    3205972     854492          0     391328    1121812
[21:53] <StevenMyers> what does top say?
[21:54] <QPrime> dto: read up on package pinning
[21:54] <acicula> dto: pinning is the keyword, dunno how it works, but that's what you want
[21:54] <StevenMyers> Or is that from top?
[21:54] <BUGabundo> dto: no. only canceling in
[21:54] <dto> acicula: QPrime: thanks
[21:54] <BUGabundo> and of course you don't need to boot into it
[21:55] <QPrime> BUGabundo: he can pin packages and not have apt upgrade them (all automatic)
[21:55] <eternal_p> so...is it safe to reboot yet?
[21:55] <BUGabundo> StevenMyers: http://paste.ubuntu.com/272351/
[21:55] <BUGabundo> QPrime: to much trouble
[21:55] <StevenMyers> BUGabundo: in your System Monitor under Processes, set all compiz listings on low priority along with python if it's running in the backend
[21:55] <BUGabundo> plus he should really test the newer packages and file bugs on it
[21:56] <QPrime> BUGabundo: bah, pinning is important to learn.
[21:56] <BUGabundo> StevenMyers: how will *that* fix my shortcut remembering bug ??
[21:56] <kingspook> cjwatson: yeah, I'll do that.
[21:57] <StevenMyers> I was referring to your CPU usage, with the shortcut remembering bug that's a whole nother ball park on compiz. Just another bug report for upstream.
[21:57] <StevenMyers> My apologies that this was what you were expecting from me.
[21:58] <BUGabundo> nvm StevenMyers
[21:58] <BUGabundo> its all good
[21:58] <StevenMyers> Sorry bro.
[21:58] <BUGabundo> just asking to see if anyone else is also expereincing it
[21:58] <BUGabundo> no need to be sorry
[21:58] <StevenMyers> :-)
[21:58] <BUGabundo> its not your bug, is it ? :D)
[21:58] <StevenMyers> hehe
[21:59]  * BUGabundo gives cwillu a gentle smack in the forehead
[21:59]  * BUGabundo drags kklimonda back in....
[21:59] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: let go of your new toy and help us out :D
[21:59] <StevenMyers> I had the same issue when running 9.10 on alpha 5 (hoping this is what you're running) and reported the batch but never heard a word from anyone yet
[22:00] <StevenMyers> P.S BUGabundo: You may want to set Xorg on low priority 16 ;-)
[22:00] <BUGabundo> you mean I had the same bug?
[22:00] <BUGabundo> where compiz stop using alt+tab?
[22:00] <StevenMyers> eh vice versa works
[22:00] <BUGabundo> and many other keyb?
[22:01] <BUGabundo> damn it
[22:01] <BUGabundo> this is making me crazy
[22:01] <BUGabundo> guess I'll restore my last backup config
[22:06] <kingspook> cjwatson: but it's for sure that the label-ing won't disappear or something, right?
[22:15] <CydeSwype> so without reading all the backlog here... is it "safe" (as safe as alphas get) to reboot since the last update-manager upgrade?
[22:16] <dto> CydeSwype: started working for me a few hours ago, upgraded from jaunty to karmic without burps. a few hours later, update gives me a working realtime kernel, which is fabulous
[22:16] <Cynthia> CydeSwype: the repos are changing as we speak, so that would be a no
[22:16] <QPrime> CydeSwype: depends on how much you love your current alpha installation... I'd say its a reasonable risk. (but I wont commit to that)
[22:16] <dto> oh.
[22:16] <dto> so... should i generally just wait a while to update?
[22:16] <dto> i really love the working rt
[22:16] <QPrime> ha! the classic channel advice conflict ;)
[22:17] <Cynthia> :D
[22:17] <Cynthia> Apport had an upstart file fix, bug 430895
[22:17] <Michalxo> QPrime, problem fixed by itself.. booted into linux from XP and no problem at all :)
[22:17] <QPrime> CydeSwype: All I can tell you in for two days Upstart was very broken... right now its less so.
[22:17] <Cynthia> linux-firmware has an update too, uh oh
[22:18] <Cynthia> CydeSwype: I edit what I said and now say reasonably safe, but yeah, alpha
[22:18] <QPrime> Michalxo: glad your stars aligned.
[22:19] <Michalxo> hehe, but keyboard problem still persists
[22:19] <Michalxo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/429249 anyone?
[22:19] <BUGabundo> not here
[22:20] <BUGabundo> but I'm still instaling lattest updates
[22:20] <CydeSwype> Cynthia, QPrime, dto, thanks!  like to get that high level status update even if there is some debate  ;^)
[22:21]  * QPrime pokes his head up from the gutter... "did someone say high level?"
[22:21] <Michalxo> BUGabundo, me too :)
[22:22] <Michalxo> BUGabundo, I always do "safe"-upgrade :D
[22:22] <Michalxo> and messing up my OS :D
[22:22]  * QPrime knows just enough to be dangerous with his nano editor. (and wont touch vi with a barge pole)
[22:22] <BUGabundo> QPrime: I have to use vi all day at work
[22:23] <BUGabundo> hpux, aix and fedora servers :(
[22:23] <QPrime> I'll send you something to kill the pain.
[22:23] <Michalxo> keyboard bugs? :)
[22:23] <dto> the new "you are connected to a wired network" systray icon is um..... kind of huge and black and doesn't fit in with the other icons.
[22:23] <dto> is this an aesthetic bug?
[22:24] <CydeSwype> going to take the plunge on the reboot
[22:24] <CydeSwype> brb
[22:24]  * CydeSwype crosses fingers and holds breath
[22:25] <dto> ok, gnome-open is not working. opening urls in other applications in general is not working.
[22:26] <QPrime> dto: aesthetics for the NM icon.  your other issues, not so much.
[22:28]  * QPrime has to run - dinner time with the sig. other. nice chatting guys/gals.  bbiab.
[22:30] <CydeSwype> woohoo!
[22:31] <BUGabundo> also the mouse scroll is now extra sensible , is it not?
[22:32] <BUGabundo> and I don't see a way to change its settings :(
[22:48]  * mac_v never heard of sensible mouse ;p
[22:53] <mac_v> BUGabundo: $ gpointing-device-settings
[22:53] <mac_v> you can set the scroll speed using that^
[22:54] <solarion> anyone have an idea why my netbook stops booting mdiway through (in rescue mode, it's right after "Begin: Running /scripts/init-bottom ...\nDone.\ninit: sreadahead main process (1211) terminated with status 1 and then a bunch of sd appearing)
[22:54] <solarion> ctrl+alt+del drops to a shell as it reboots
[22:54] <mac_v> !topic | solarion
[22:55]  * BUGabundo is deaf. no audio :(
[22:55] <solarion> what does "working" mean precisely? What broke?
[22:55] <Cynthia> The boot process
[22:55] <solarion> my desktop reboots just fine
[22:55] <mac_v> solarion: the boot is broken
[22:55] <Wicked> is there a list of new things in karmic?
[22:55] <solarion> is there a workaround?
[22:56] <solarion> Wicked: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha5
[22:56] <BUGabundo> ok, autospawn disabled
[22:56] <BUGabundo> mac_v: nothing there for mouse scroll
[22:56] <Wicked> awesome. thanks solarion :)
[22:56] <Cynthia> During the boot process for PCs yesterday, you had to use Ctrl+Alt+F1 and Ctrl+Alt+F7 one after the other to continue booting to GDM
[22:56] <mac_v> BUGabundo: oh mouse , i thought touchpad!
[22:56] <cjwatson> solarion,mac_v: it's not broken for everyone
[22:56] <Cynthia> I have no idea for Netbooks
[22:56] <BUGabundo> nope
[22:57] <cjwatson> some people (e.g. me) are booting just fine, but there are problems with some edge cases
[22:57] <solarion> Wicked: np. Glad I could be of help. :)
[22:57] <cjwatson> for example I think anything with encrypted partitions is still known to have trouble
[22:57] <solarion> that'd perhaps be it then
[22:57] <solarion> too bad I can't remove that drive
[22:57] <gnata> on my box it boots fine but no keyboard nor a mouse as soon as X starts
[22:57] <gnata> :(
[22:58] <solarion> I can get into it with the alpha 5 livecd (on a stick) and then chrooting and things, but it's not 100% and rather awkward
[22:58] <solarion> anything I can do to pitch in?
[22:58] <mac_v> cjwatson: i'm using the boot ppa , are there problems with that too? i'v not reboot for fear of breakage :(
[22:59] <cjwatson> mac_v: I believe the boot PPA has been folded into the main archive
[22:59] <cjwatson> it may have a slightly different set of problems
[22:59] <mac_v> hrm...
[22:59] <cjwatson> solarion: I don't see a bug report about that - it would help if you could file one
[23:00]  * mac_v sets low priority for boot ppa
[23:01] <Cynthia> current status without ubuntu-boot PPA: network-manager updates, may fix (or break) networking
[23:04] <gnata> hal seems to be broken
[23:04] <virtuald> does ifupdown work yet?
[23:05] <gnata> try dhclient
[23:05] <BUGabundo> virtuald: it stoped?
[23:05] <Cynthia> net isn't broken here yay
[23:07] <AlanBell> yay, the playroom computer is upgraded and working, the kids will be pleased.
[23:07] <AlanBell> it took an upgrade and a reboot and a dist-upgrade and it seems pretty good.
[23:07] <Cynthia> AlanBell: you let your kids use alpha software? you're brave :)
[23:07] <Dai> Cynthia: it's gonna break one way or another :D
[23:08] <Cynthia> Dai: true, and it may be even more user interface testing
[23:08] <AlanBell> they have been using it from alpha 1
[23:08] <AlanBell> I only let it on any of my machines at alpha 5
[23:09] <Dai> i think i'll wait for alpha 6
[23:09] <AlanBell> I bet nobody has given tuxpaint the full karmic testing that my kids have.
[23:09] <Dai> especially considering the recent issues :)
[23:09] <DanaG> Here's one thing you could do: keep it, oh, a few days behind, in terms of updates.
[23:10] <DanaG> Use another box to test the latest stuff.  Or a VM.
[23:10] <AlanBell> hmm, gnome-blackjack. should be educational for them I suppose.
[23:10] <mac_v> DanaG: vm , great , i totally forgot ;)
[23:11] <AlanBell> wow, the games just got a bit of a harsh prune
[23:13] <solarion> cjwatson: bug #431040
[23:19] <peol> Anyone else having problems with .ogg playbacks using aplay, while vlc (haven't tested others) work fine? I'm just getting static sound, I've had this issue before but it just started when updated to Karmic again
[23:19] <MaximLevitsky> I have a problem with cdrom, gnome doesn't recognize it is in, it just doesn't display cdrom icon
[23:19] <MaximLevitsky> It happened yestarday, and it might be my fault
[23:19] <MaximLevitsky> Do you know any pointers to start digging?
[23:19] <DanaG> well, aplay won't do ogg.  All aplay does is wav.
[23:19] <MaximLevitsky1> sorry NM decided to quit....
[23:19] <DanaG> YOu need something else to play ogg.
[23:20] <peol> Hm, I did have my xchat set to use 'aplay' before, but it might be defaulting to it still (it's set to automatic), I'll play around with it, thanks for confirming it as pebcak :)
[23:20] <DanaG> One simple utility maybe: "sox".
[23:21] <MaximLevitsky1> does cdroms work for you?
[23:21] <MaximLevitsky1> I mean do cdroms work for you
[23:21] <MaximLevitsky1> ?
[23:22] <peol> You mean audio CD's? Haven't tried, gimme a sec
[23:22] <DanaG> CDs?  hmm, it's been a long time since I last played a CD.
[23:22] <MaximLevitsky1> no no audio, any cdrom
[23:22] <MaximLevitsky1> or dvd
[23:22] <MaximLevitsky1> anything optical
[23:22] <peol> Yeah, hal is mounting the dvd in /media automatically over here
[23:23] <MaximLevitsky1> peol: did you receive yesterday updates?
[23:24] <Cynthia> MaximLevitsky1: inserted my Ubuntu Karmic a5 CD-RW into the drive, no icon on the desktop
[23:24] <MaximLevitsky1> and nothing in places too, right?
[23:24] <Cynthia> MaximLevitsky1: Exactly
[23:25] <peol> dmesg
[23:25] <Cynthia> Nothing in /media either
[23:25] <MaximLevitsky1> Cynthia: nice, so it is a update breakage
[23:25] <JanC> does dbus run
[23:25] <Cynthia> last dmesg message = "[   25.452528] eth0: no IPv6 routers present"
[23:25] <NoelJB> Cynthia, if necessary, can you mount the CD directly?
[23:25] <MaximLevitsky1> Cynthia: and manual mount work
[23:25] <MaximLevitsky1> ?
[23:25] <MaximLevitsky1> Here it works
[23:25] <AlanBell> is it possible to install the gnome-games package from the software store?
[23:26] <Cynthia> karmic@voltorb:~$ sudo mkdir /media/cdrommanual && sudo mount /dev/sr0 /media/cdrommanual
[23:26] <JanC> AlanBell: gnome games is split up in several packages in karmic
[23:26] <Cynthia> this worked, and placed an icon on the desktop
[23:26] <NoelJB> Cynthia :-)
[23:27] <JanC> AlanBell: which I'm happy about, now I can remove the games I never play  ;)
[23:27] <AlanBell> can't say I am overly pleased with the games changes
[23:28] <AlanBell> lots of fun and friendly logic games out, replaced with vegas strip blackjack
[23:28] <MaximLevitsky1> AlanBell: mee too
[23:28] <Cynthia> NoelJB: But this was not really for me, it was to test MaximLevitsky1's report of regression in automounting
[23:28] <AlanBell> not so child friendly out of the box
[23:28] <BWARG> HI!
[23:28] <JanC> AlanBell: I'm not sure what's installed by default (I'm on an upgraded box here)
[23:28] <NoelJB> OK.  I'll check on my end in a bit.  I am in the process of backing up, then I'll pop the DVD drive back in.
[23:29] <BWARG> id like to download karmic koalla?
[23:29] <BWARG> id like to bug test
[23:29] <BWARG> i like breaking my linux installs
[23:29] <JanC> AlanBell: I agree that soem child-friendly games should be installed by default
[23:29] <BWARG> kalzium
[23:29] <Cynthia> bwarg: get the ISO from http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha5
[23:29] <BWARG> and atomix
[23:29] <BWARG> thank you!
[23:30] <MaximLevitsky1> NoelJB, last question, if you open brasero, you don't see the cdrom, right?
[23:30] <AlanBell> BWARG: you might be well advised to wait a bit for alpha 6
[23:30]  * Twigathy peers at /topic... not worth apt-get upgrade'ing today then? :-)
[23:30] <JanC> AlanBell: actually, installing TuxPaint by default would be great (it's about the favourite "game" of all the kids I showed Ubuntu to)
[23:30] <NoelJB> BWARG, that's why we do alpha cycles.  Out of 6 months, beta is < 1 month
[23:30] <NoelJB> MaximLevitsky1, can't look until after my backup finishes.
[23:31] <Michalxo> guys.. is it a bug or feature? I inserted 9.04 cd and I don't see it in "computer" nor ls /media/cdrom(0) lists anything
[23:31] <BWARG> yo i installed suse as a backup os and it broke the boot loader
[23:31] <Cynthia> MaximLevitsky1: I'll look. Automatic mount or manual?
[23:31] <AlanBell> JanC: yes tuxpaint is great
[23:31] <MaximLevitsky1> Cynthia: here it doesn't show in brasero no matter what
[23:31] <BWARG> lol wrong chat
[23:31] <Cynthia> Michalxo: The CD-ROM invisibility bug is being discussed right now :)
[23:31] <AlanBell> I just don't think of all the card games that are available blackjack is the best to include
[23:31] <Cynthia> MaximLevitsky1: Ok. Will test now
[23:32] <BWARG> make a card game about chemistry and math
[23:32] <BWARG> and offer an incentive
[23:32] <Michalxo> CydeSwype, thank you.. :) here I guess :)
[23:32] <MaximLevitsky1> This is what bothers me, I can live without automounting, but I need brasero now
[23:33] <JanC> AlanBell: right, considering the "gambling" nature of it...
[23:33] <Cynthia> brasero: Blank Disc shows "No available disc" for my CD-RW
[23:33] <Michalxo> MaximLevitsky1, same problem here then :) empty cdrom drive is shown, but when filled with a cd, I see nohing
[23:33] <BWARG> how familiar are you all with the yaST tool in suse?
[23:33] <MaximLevitsky1> Michalxo, in computer:// right?
[23:33] <Cynthia> Same with the CD-ROM drive manually mounted
[23:34] <Michalxo> yes
[23:34] <Michalxo> ls /media/cdrom shows nothing too
[23:34] <Cynthia> Is there a bug report for this yet?
[23:34] <MaximLevitsky1> Michalxo: great, so this is a bug, and I''l report it
[23:34] <Cynthia> Never mind me then
[23:34] <AlanBell> JanC: yes. I have no problem with gambling as such. Just don't think it is very wise to have it as one of the very few games installed.
[23:34] <Cynthia> Thanks Maxim
[23:34] <Michalxo> imo no
[23:35] <AlanBell> if there was a big collection of card games including solitaire, bridge, etc then it would totally make sense for it to be part of the collection
[23:35] <Cynthia> AlanBell: AisleRiot Solitaire seems to be a collection of solitaire games on its own
[23:35] <Michalxo> aisleriot rocks!
[23:35] <Michalxo> blackjack is not needed
[23:36] <BWARG> can there be some tool implemented sin the new version such as the /etc/sys config editor GUI in ubuntu?
[23:36] <CydeSwype> hey guys, is it time for a topic change yet?
[23:36] <Cynthia> AlanBell @ AisleRiot: Game / Select Game [Ctrl+O] shows a plethora of games
[23:36] <MaximLevitsky1> except cdrom bug, system works here
[23:37] <BWARG> it allows you to do such things as change your window manager in a gui
[23:37] <AlanBell> but is aisleriot still there? it is part of gnome-games (which I just reinstalled)
[23:37] <BWARG> change bnoot options
[23:37] <BWARG> boot
[23:37] <Cynthia> AlanBell: # apt-get install aisleriot
[23:37] <JanC> I'll try a new install one of these days...
[23:37] <Cynthia> The GNOME Games package was split into its constituent games this week
[23:38] <AlanBell> is there a wiki page about the games changes, I would like to read some of the thinking behind it
[23:38] <JanC> Cynthia: I think what AlanBell means is that some games are more appropriate to be installed by default than others
[23:38] <Cynthia> JanC: Oh
[23:38] <BWARG> i just thought that something like that would be great for user friendlyness seeing as you can do so many powerful things in a gui
[23:38] <AlanBell> exactly
[23:38] <MaximLevitsky1> done
[23:38] <MaximLevitsky1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/431055
[23:39] <Cynthia> Well, the games from gnome games are all still around... I guess we'll have to wait for Alpha 6 to know which subpackages are installed now
[23:39] <BWARG> i dont mean to be a douche but why are you all so focused on games?
[23:39] <cjwatson> AlanBell: I shoved sgt-puzzles on my stepson's box, although possibly for slightly older children as they aren't all that easy
[23:39] <Cynthia> Bug 376744
[23:39] <AlanBell> well I hope today was just a prune and they will be added back bit by bit.
[23:39] <Michalxo> keyboard bug here + cdrom bug
[23:40] <AlanBell> BWARG: because I just upgraded the playroom computer and half the games vanished
[23:40] <Michalxo_> warning NMapplet possible bug again
[23:40] <cjwatson> AlanBell: best file a bug or post to ubuntu-devel-discuss or something to make your feelings known
[23:40] <JanC> BWARG: because we were having a discussion about default games  ;)
[23:40] <BWARG> what about atomix then?
[23:40] <Michalxo_> Setting up network-manager (0.8~a~git.20090911t130220.4c77fa0-0ubuntu6) ... not sure if this does not brake system too
[23:41] <BWARG> move it from education
[23:41] <Cynthia> Michalxo_: It doesn't break everyone's system
[23:41] <Michalxo_> guys? who plats robots?
[23:41] <JanC> I'll try to remember to test alpha 6 image in a VM to check what's installed by default
[23:41] <Cynthia> Mine, for instance, is still solid net-wise
[23:41] <NoelJB> Cynthia, I can confirm.  Is there an open bug, yet?
[23:42] <Cynthia> NoelJB: For the CD-ROM trouble or NetworkManager?
[23:42] <NoelJB> Cynthia, CD-ROM
[23:42] <Michalxo_> robots tali,klotski? useless(?)
[23:42] <BWARG> klotski is great for kids
[23:42] <NoelJB> Ah, I see it ... bug 431055
[23:42] <Cynthia> NoelJB, MaximLevitsky1 filed Bug 431055
[23:42] <Cynthia> Yes :)
[23:42] <BWARG> i played it relentlessy
[23:42] <Michalxo_> hm.. tried once.. never again :)
[23:43] <Michalxo_> so tali / robots? :)
[23:43] <AlanBell> Cynthia: thanks for the bug link
[23:43] <BWARG> robots?
[23:43] <Michalxo_> Cynthia, thkx too :)
[23:43] <BWARG> link?
[23:43] <Michalxo_> Robots 2.27.92
[23:43] <BWARG> im on suse cause i broke my ubuntu
[23:43] <Michalxo_> Based on classic BSD Robots.
[23:43] <Michalxo_> Robots is a part of GNOME Games.
[23:43] <AD5300> ... I just realized I only have 650MB CR-RWs... is there any way I can fit Karmic Alpha 5 Live CD on that?
[23:44] <AD5300> I need to boot into it just to fix my chroot :/
[23:44] <cjwatson> I'm afraid we stopped supporting 650MB CDs several years ago
[23:44] <Cynthia> AD5300: No
[23:44] <cjwatson> we tried for a while but we couldn't make stuff fit any more
[23:44] <AD5300> Can I remove unneeded packages maybe?
[23:44] <MaximLevitsky1> cjwatson: just strip mono, and it will fit :-)
[23:45]  * BUGabundo slaps MaximLevitsky1
[23:45] <BUGabundo> hey I like my GnomeDO
[23:45] <Cynthia> MaximLevitsky1: and Tomboy, which (is the only program to?) use(s) Mono
[23:45] <cjwatson> MaximLevitsky1: *sigh* whatever
[23:45] <BWARG> im a fan of memory games and puzzle games
[23:45] <AD5300> Is there an easy way to remove mono from the ISO file?
[23:45] <MaximLevitsky1> Cynthia: gnote works fine here
[23:45] <Cynthia> ah, never mind me, I thought Tomboy was the only program to use Mono.
[23:45] <BWARG> open in a archive manager
[23:45] <AD5300> Can it still BOOT and go into the GUI without mono?
[23:45] <Michalxo_> wow! I've just beaten robot for the first time! finally I understand that game :D
[23:45] <BWARG> chroot
[23:46] <MaximLevitsky1> AD5300: sure, but this was just a joke
[23:46] <AD5300> Im not going to use it to install anything. I JUST need to fix my current Karmic installation.
[23:46] <MaximLevitsky1> AD5300: there are many packages that can be removed
[23:46] <NoelJB> MaximLevitsky1, confirming the basero behavior, too.
[23:46] <AD5300> How do I go about doing that?
[23:47] <AD5300> I'd like to remove OpenOffice (~200MB from the ISO image.
[23:47] <Cynthia> AD5300: http://nixbit.com/cat/system/operating-systems-linux-distri/alinux/
[23:47] <Cynthia> from the page: aLinux OS can be written to a 650MB CD
[23:47] <AD5300> I need to have a copy of Karmic as my host system for repairing my current system. It actually matters in this case.
[23:48] <BWARG> find the directory its installed to and rm -rf it?
[23:48] <AD5300> /etc/resolv.cfg needs to match the one from Karmic
[23:48] <AD5300> I'd just like to know the easiest way to remove OpenOffice from the LiveCD.
[23:48] <AD5300> ... so it can fit within 650MB.
[23:49] <BWARG> find tyhe directory its installed to
[23:49] <BWARG> and rm -rf it
[23:49] <BWARG> then when you boot do the uninstall thing
[23:49] <AD5300> no... I didnt burn the CD yet. That wont work
[23:49] <AD5300> Im trying to remove files from the ISO image
[23:50] <BWARG> open the iso in an archive manager
[23:50] <BWARG> copy that to a directory
[23:50] <BWARG> chroot into it
[23:50] <AD5300> I dont know what I can safely remove
[23:50] <Cynthia> remove wubi, remove the autorun.inf for Windows, remove /usr/bin/games and /usr/lib/openoffice with squashfs-tools or something that can handle squashfs
[23:50] <BWARG> do your thing
[23:50] <cjwatson> AD5300: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[23:50] <Cynthia> the whole "live cd" environment is in a single file
[23:50] <BWARG> oh
[23:50] <BWARG> what she said
[23:50] <AD5300> Im using Vista to modify the image since my Ubuntu PC is broken.
[23:50] <cjwatson> is the, er, canonical documentation for this
[23:51] <cjwatson> and has all the little details like the correct mkisofs options
[23:51] <cjwatson> you won't be able to do it on Vista
[23:51] <Cynthia> nice pun, cjwatson :)
[23:51] <cjwatson> sorry
[23:51] <cjwatson> Vista won't be able to do anything with the squashfs
[23:52] <AD5300> I have 7zip installed.
[23:52] <AD5300> I should be able to remove files from the iso
[23:52] <cjwatson> I doubt 7zip will understand squashfs
[23:52] <cjwatson> AD5300: can your machine talk to the network without complicated shenanigans? (no WPA, no proprietary drivers)
[23:53] <cjwatson> AD5300: if so, why not use the minimal netboot CD, which has a rescue mode feature?
[23:53] <cjwatson> AD5300: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/
[23:53] <BWARG> what about just burrowing or buying a larger CD?
[23:53] <DanaG> dude, there's a usb-creator for Windows.
[23:53] <AD5300> My machine cant even connect to the net from Ubuntu atm...
[23:53] <cjwatson> you won't get a GUI, but if all you need is chroot then it may suffice
[23:54] <cjwatson> ah, that might be a problem
[23:54] <AD5300> and I need the file called /etc/resolv.cfg
[23:54] <AD5300> which is on Karmic
[23:54] <cjwatson> personally I'd drop a couple of pounds on a stack of 100 CD-Rs or something :)
[23:54] <BWARG> i paid 4 dollars on 10 DVDRs
[23:54] <Cynthia> AD5300: ls -l /etc/resolv.cfg gives no output here
[23:54] <cjwatson> resolv.conf
[23:55] <AD5300> my bad. extension should be conf
[23:55] <AD5300> sorry
[23:55] <BWARG> lol google qemu and run a live cd in it
[23:55] <Cynthia> oh. well, mine got generated by NetworkManager
[23:55] <AD5300> I need to recover using Chroot.
[23:55] <NoelJB> Cynthia, yes, that IS how it gets generated.
[23:56] <NoelJB> and it will be specific to the ISP
[23:56] <NoelJB> since it will have the nameserver entries
[23:56] <AD5300> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery -- this is what I need to do.
[23:56] <Cynthia> true, I just never saw how this worked on direct PPPoE because I have a router
[23:56] <AD5300> Someone with the same problem as me said that guid fixed it.
[23:57] <Cynthia> AD5300: but you need to make Karmic a5 fit on a 650 MB CD, which requires something other than Vista, i.e. using your broken system to fix itself. Is that right?
[23:57] <AD5300> I don't even e PPPoE... I'm on 25mbps/15mbps Fiber-Optic connection with no logins.
[23:58] <AD5300> Yeah, which won't work since I cant even login in recovery mode
[23:58] <BUGabundo> chrisccoulson: are you around
[23:58] <BWARG> qemu frintend
[23:58] <chrisccoulson> BUGabundo - i am
[23:58] <BUGabundo> chrisccoulson: were you the one to introduce the new changes on compiz?
[23:58] <Michalxo_> AD5300, well.. for me it fixed reboot twice.. dunno what happened... but I could go into tty1 and execute there all :-/
[23:58] <chrisccoulson> i wasn't. which changes are these?
[23:59] <Cynthia> AD5300: shall I try to customise an .iso for you per /LiveCDCustomization, and upload it to you via this ADSL connection? (will be slow)
[23:59] <AD5300> Sure...
[23:59] <BUGabundo> chrisccoulson: its not the changes, but a side efect or new bug
[23:59] <BWARG> load up http://perso.wanadoo.es/comike/
[23:59] <AD5300> I'd appreciate that.
[23:59] <BWARG> qemu front end
[23:59] <Cynthia> it might take a while, I haven't done this before :/
[23:59] <chrisccoulson> BUGabundo - what's the issue?
[23:59] <BUGabundo> chrisccoulson: its losses info on shortcuts
[23:59] <BWARG> do you have a live cd available/