[00:00] <jelmer> vanguard: yep, there's "bzr log" and the release notes (doc/en/release-notes/*.txt)
[00:01] <poolie> the release notes are the main forum for giving credit to people
[00:01] <poolie> what were you planning to work on?
[00:01] <vanguard> i18n
[00:01] <poolie> oh, hi
[00:01] <poolie> excellent
[00:01] <jelmer> vanguard: Are you Martin?
[00:01] <vanguard> jelmer: yep
[00:01] <poolie> also, yet another martin :)
[00:02] <poolie> it may be one of those things that is actually less difficult than people have come to believe
[00:02] <poolie> or not :)
[00:02] <vanguard> I tried i18n on my own projects and found it pretty straightforward
[00:02] <vanguard> but my biggest project was 10k LOC, so bzr is quite different I suppose
[00:04] <jelmer> poolie: are you talking about i18n or the number of Martins ? :)
[00:05] <vanguard> having two people with the same name is not that difficult I guess :-)
[00:06] <poolie> i think there are now about 4
[00:06] <poolie> jelmer, about 4 Martins (or more?) contributing to bzr
[00:06] <poolie> plus a couple commenting
[00:07] <poolie> it seems unusually rich
[00:07] <poolie> counting gz and beuno
[00:07] <beuno> all the smart people are named Martin, yes
[00:09] <vanguard> it is the 234th most popular name in the US apparently (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=martin)
[00:11] <vanguard> you use spaces in bzr codebase?
[00:11] <poolie> rather than ^i tab characters, yes
[00:11] <poolie> and just generally following PEP8
[00:12] <vanguard> okay, I use tabs everywhere, I just wondered why python did not like my indent :)
[00:19] <jelmer> poolie: I've started using the "bazaar" superproject in Launchpad more and it's been working quite well. The main problem is that there are some subprojects that are inactive, and they clutter up the superproject views.
[00:19] <jelmer> poolie: Do you know if there's anything we could do about that?
[00:20] <jelmer> removing subprojects from the superproject is possible, but probably also suboptimal (makes it harder to find them back later)
[00:25]  * jelmer gets some sleep
[00:26] <vanguard> maybe create a subsuperproject where the abandoned projects go?
[00:50] <bignose> jelmer: my trunk branch, bound to the Subversion repository, doesn't have a ‘subversion.conf’ file.
[00:50] <jelmer> bignose: ~/.bazaar/subversion.conf
[00:50] <bignose> oh, it's a *global* setting? :-(
[00:51] <jelmer> no, that file has per-repository settings
[00:51] <bignose> okay. confusing, but I'll manage
[00:52] <bignose> jelmer: to confirm my interpretation:
[00:52] <jelmer> bignose: you can also set it in ~/.bazaar/locations.conf I think
[00:52] <bignose> jelmer: if I set ‘push_merged_revisions=True’ for the particular repository,
[00:53] <bignose> and then merge and commit in that repository,
[00:53] <bignose> the Subversion repository will get the merged revisions in automatically-created Subversion branches?
[00:53] <jelmer> bignose: yep
[00:54] <jelmer> bignose: (but again, the version in sid is too old for this to work well)
[00:54] <bignose> jelmer: and then, when I remove the branches from svn, the history will show the same afterward?
[00:54] <jelmer> bignose: yep
[01:09] <bignose> jelmer: sounds like a winner. I'll try it today.
[01:10] <bignose> jelmer: ‘push_merged_revisions’, or ‘push-merged-revisions’? or are both spellings equivalent?
[01:11] <jelmer> bignose: push_merged_revisions
[01:12] <bignose> oh, I just saw you saying that it won't work well?
[01:13] <bignose> bzr-svn 1.0.3-1
[01:13] <jelmer> bignose: that's too old, you'll need something from at most 10 days ago
[01:13] <bignose> gah
[01:13] <jelmer> 1.1.0 is due out later this week, if that helps
[01:14] <bignose> I'll need to wait for the next OS release then.
[01:23] <bignose> (the machine where this is being done is pinned at Ubuntu Maverick)
[01:27] <poolie> the next os release after maverick?
[01:27] <poolie> that happened yesterday
[01:27] <bignose> goodie
[01:28] <bignose> but is the ‘bzr-svn’ that jelmer refers to included in that?
[01:29] <poolie>    bzr-svn | 1.0.4+bzr3475-1 | natty/universe | source, all
[01:29] <poolie> i don't know if that's new enough-
[01:29] <poolie> i doubt they updated only 10 days ago
[05:10] <KombuchaKip> How do I add a user to the list of people that have write access to my launchpad hosted bzr branch?
[05:23] <spiv> KombuchaKip: write access on Launchpad is determined by the owner of the branch
[05:23] <spiv> KombuchaKip: so have the branch be owned by a team, and have that user be a member of that team
[05:23] <KombuchaKip> spiv: Right. But if I want to give some others write access?
[05:24] <KombuchaKip> spiv: Hmm, I created a branch already so I would have to move it to the teams...
[05:24] <KombuchaKip> spiv: I have a feeling this is going to create a headache.
[05:25] <spiv> KombuchaKip: If you follow the 'Change branch details' link on the branch's page you can change its owner
[05:25] <KombuchaKip> spiv: You're right! That was easy!
[05:26] <spiv> :)
[06:22] <poolie> hi spiv, i'm back
[06:40] <spiv> poolie: hi, welcome back
[06:52] <vila> hi all, I'm back too ;)
[06:56] <poolie> hi spiv, vila
[07:01] <poolie> spiv does https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/772935 ring any bells for you?
[07:01] <poolie> you commented earlier on one that looks a lot like a dupe
[07:01] <poolie> and generally speaking it looks a bit like some bugs that were thought to be fixed
[07:14] <spiv> poolie: lifeless was asking me about that on #launchpad
[07:15] <spiv> poolie: no particular bells rung.  It's worrying, but it doesn't ring bells more specific than "stacking, maybe?"
[10:39] <jam> hey vila, I just saw this: http://babune.ladeuil.net:24842/job/selftest-windows/413/testReport/
[10:39] <jam> But, it works just fine here on Windows
[10:39] <jam> I wonder if it is an NTFS vs FAT thing?
[10:39] <vila> jam: :) You should revise your belief that "it works on windows because if works on *my* windows" ;)
[10:40] <vila> jam: but, yes, it has failed twice in a row so it's probably an indication that something is wrong
[10:40] <jam> vila: I've never claimed because something works here it works everywhere.
[10:40] <jam> I have the feeling it is something *specific to your machine* that I cannot reproduce
[10:41] <jam> so it isn't strictly that the test is at fault, I'm hesitant to just remove/disable the test
[10:41] <vila> I was wondering if you were able to reproduce it locally but I'm upgrading babune to natty and didn't think it was an urgent one
[10:41] <jam> can you do "os.utime" or your machine and see if it allows anything?
[10:41] <vila> not right now
[10:41] <vila> but
[10:42] <vila> if race conditions in file system accesses... that's something that ring so many bells on babune that I can't even hear you anymore ;)
[10:44] <vila> ntfs vs fat could also be a good lead
[10:44] <vila> jam: can't you just create some fat fs on either an external HD or even USB stick ?
[10:45] <jam> vila: faster for me to just wait for you to upgrade your machine :)
[10:46] <vila> jam: with the upgrade announcing still 1 hour to download the packages, I doubt it
[10:46] <vila> 1h33 even
[10:47] <vila> Is ubuntu.com so heavily loaded that it can't provide more bandwidth ?
[10:47] <jam> vila: less of my personal time, since I can perfectly happily ignore this until next week
[10:49]  * vila too ;)
[11:11] <jam> vila: so in this case "a" is a directory. and I imagine FAT can't set mtime for dirs. I'm happy enough with a try/except OSError there and just skip it on babune
[11:15] <vila> jam: you mean a try/except in the test ?
[11:16] <jam> vila: yep
[11:16] <jam> vila: sending to pqm now unless you object
[11:16] <vila> oh, right, I see the code now
[11:17] <vila> well, if I had objections it would be about using some sort of test feature instead of catching the exception in the test, but I think it's an edge case so, just land
[11:18] <jam> vila: if we have more of these, I'd go for it
[11:18] <jam> but right now, for just 1 test, it isn't worth a Feature
[11:18]  * vila nods
[11:18] <vila> I haven't looked in detail and didn't realize it was a single test
[11:19] <jam> vila: yeah, 1 test permuted 4 times
[11:19] <vila> yup
[11:20] <vila> on the other hand, there may be other ways to update the dir mtime in more portable ways, but again, probably not worth the trouble in this case
[11:21] <jam> vila: I don't know what FAT is giving for mtime anyway, and putting a 10s sleep in there is much worse
[11:21] <vila> yeah, evil++ ;)
[11:21] <jam> (well, a 2+s sleep for FAT granularity)
[11:22]  * jam is thinking we should just go with a 1s timeout to our hash cache, and let FAT people live with the fallout.
[11:22] <jam> It won't be often that they update content 2x in a 2s window from commit
[11:22] <jam> they can always touch things if they need ot
[11:22] <jam> to
[12:01] <vanguard> I am just reading the i18n specs in the wiki and I see _() everywhere. Isn't using the _ as a function against the use of _ as the "last return value" causing problems in the debugger?
[12:04] <vila> vanguard: I don't remember the details but: 1) you're right, that caused problems 2) they were fixed for bzr-gtk
[12:07] <vanguard> so it is save to use _() or should one use something else instead()
[12:07] <vanguard> s/()/?
[12:11] <vila> well... IIRC, the issue was that gettext was injecting '_' aggressively in some dicts, so the issue could come back
[12:12] <vila> and the workaround was to fix it in a way that only modules that needed it were fixed
[12:12] <vila> from a usability pov for devs, I don't have enough experience there to comment
[12:12]  * vila goes for lunch
[13:39] <vanguard> can I somehow set the commit --strict option as a default?
[14:12] <knighthawk> how do I "unbound" a branch?
[14:51] <spiv> knighthawk: 'bzr unbind', or alternatively 'bzr reconfigure' to the state you want instead.
[14:51] <knighthawk> thanks spiv
[15:26] <hrw> hi
[15:27] <hrw>   parent branch: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~linaro-maintainers/linaro-images/hwpack.natty.linaro-panda/
[15:27] <hrw> 16:26 hrw@home:hwpacks$ bzr push lp:~hrw/linaro-images/hwpack.natty.linaro-panda/use-ubuntu-kernel
[15:27] <hrw> bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~hrw/linaro-images/hwpack.natty.linaro-panda/use-ubuntu-kernel/": : Cannot create branch at '/~hrw/linaro-images/hwpack.natty.linaro-panda/use-ubuntu-kernel'
[15:27] <hrw> what I am doing wrong?
[15:27] <jelmer> hrw: there's a slash too many in there as far as I can tell
[15:27] <james_w`> hrw, linaro-images is the project name
[15:27] <james_w`> there can only be one path segment after that
[15:28] <jelmer> hrw: ~username/projectname/branchname is the standard form
[15:28] <james_w`> i.e. replace the last / with a - or something
[15:28] <hrw> ok
[15:29] <hrw> thx
[15:30] <jelmer> jam: still there?
[15:40] <rryan`> hmm, our launchpad repository is now throwing errors on checkout and branch for bazaar 2.1.1
[15:40] <rryan`> http://pastebin.com/Kud2MsqQ
[15:40] <rryan`> should I file a bug as the output suggests or is this something you think is already fixed in a newer version ?
[15:41] <rryan`> (or alternatively, is our repository broken somehow now? it works fine for existing checkouts/branches)
[15:45] <jelmer> I'll give it a try with 2.4, one sec..
[16:04] <spiv> rryan`, jelmer: there's already a bug filed, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/772935
[16:16] <jelmer> spiv: hey spiv
[16:16] <jelmer> thanks
[16:24] <rryan`> spiv: thanks -- right hand not talking to the left :)
[16:35] <pmatulis> what's the easiest way to change a commit message?
[18:48] <mdke> hi there. is there a way to make "bzr revert" delete unknown files?
[18:48] <vanguard> you can use bzr clean-tree for that
[18:48] <vanguard> try it with `bzr clean-tree --dry-run` if you like
[18:49] <mdke> vanguard: can I give it a path?
[18:49] <vanguard> bzr clean-tree --help offers a list of options, you can delete ignored files, backup files, etc
[18:49] <vanguard> mdke: not sure, try a dry-run in the directory that you want cleaned
[18:51] <mdke> vanguard: doesn't look like it. Still a useful tool though, thanks
[18:51] <vanguard> you can file a bug against it on launchpad.net/bzr if you want that feature added
[18:52] <mdke> vanguard: do you think that it is a sensible feature to request? perhaps it is a design choice
[19:17] <vanguard> mdke: well, you might want to use that to clean out build files, the tree is not really affected by unversioned files, so I think adding this option does not hurt
[22:27] <mhall119> is this a good place to ask questions about the bzrlib api?
[22:28] <mhall119> I want to be able to clear the revision history of a local branch
[22:28] <mhall119> basically I branch from a remote source, then I want to start with a clean revision history, but keep all the files that were under version control
[22:43] <glyph> mhall119: why bother with a plugin for that?  you can just 'bzr export; bzr init; bzr add; bzr commit'
[22:55] <mhall119> I'm not writing a plugin, just a cli program, and I wanted to use bzrlib instead of subprocess.call()


[01:32] <hatch> rick_h_: are you around?
[01:35] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, what's up?
[01:35] <hatch> questions about your proposed branch
[01:35] <hatch> is that for the little tab to open the store?
[01:35] <rick_h_> hatch: shoot
[01:35] <rick_h_> right
[01:35] <rick_h_> that opens/closes
[01:35] <hatch> so why couldn't you have a simple css based tab with a open/close method on the subapp ?
[01:36] <hatch> it looks like that's all it's doing but with way more code
[01:36] <rick_h_> hatch: no, because it needs to be state, back button enabled, urlable, etc
[01:37] <hatch> well doesn't it only have two states? shown and not?
[01:37] <hatch> and it's shown if the other two are closed
[01:38] <rick_h_> hatch: maybe I'm not following. So there's three 'states' to the browser. minmized, fullscreen, or sidebar view. And tomorrow I have ot add a hidden state as well
[01:38] <hatch> wana guichat it?
[01:38] <rick_h_> hatch: and I was going to ask to pair up on that because whenever we're on the juju-gui interior views, we have to get the sidebar to go to a hidden state and make sure the back button pops it back to the old state/etc
[01:38] <rick_h_> hatch: can we setup first thing tomorrow? I've only got 20min left here at the coffee shop
[01:39] <hatch> oh yeah sure np
[01:39] <rick_h_> hatch: cool, let me konw when you get in tomorrow morning and we can chat as I wanted to grab your time on the hidden state stuff as well.
[01:39] <hatch> going out tonight so it definitely wont' be before my usual time (8am) :)
[01:40] <rick_h_> hatch: rgr, have fun
[01:40] <hatch> currently 7:40pm
[01:40] <rick_h_> yea, add 2hrs here
[01:43] <huwshimi> rick_h_: In fact the minimised sidebar needs to remember its state so that when you open it again it remains the same as it was before you minimised it
[01:45] <rick_h_> huwshimi: right, so it should. It pushes a new state and doesn't change anything like charmids, search input, etc
[01:45] <rick_h_> huwshimi: so when you open it, it reloads. When we get the cache into place it'll avoid that reload as well
[01:45] <rick_h_> huwshimi: but that cache state stuff will be later on. For insance we can cache the interesting charm list and search results from fullscreen/sidebar and such
[01:46] <huwshimi> rick_h_: Ah I see your branch actually does that, but shouldn't it just be the real sidebar there that is just moved over?
[01:46] <huwshimi> (Although I don't know how that should be handled when you were in full-screen mode)
[01:46] <rick_h_> huwshimi: so yes/no. Yes, but that'll be harder since we'll have this state change but moving it over while this took me 2hrs tonight to add
[01:47] <rick_h_> huwshimi: so going with this for a first pass that does what it should and we can look closer at how to do it with sidebar/fullscreen/animation/etc as a later improvement
[01:47] <huwshimi> rick_h_: Yeah, fair enough, that makes sense
[01:48] <hatch> rick_h_: btw- 3.10 doesn't make any apreciable difference in speed in the tests :(
[01:48] <hatch> appreciable
[01:49] <rick_h_> hatch: :(
[01:49] <hatch> yeah....oh well
[01:49] <hatch> here's hoping 3.11
[01:49] <hatch> :)
[01:49]  * hatch out!
[01:50] <rick_h_> hatch: we'll just have to fix our crap and make it faster :P
[01:50] <hatch> haha
[01:50]  * hatch really out!
[12:08] <gary_poster> uh-oh, new version of nodejs....
[12:09] <rick_h_> lol, run for the hills!
[12:09] <gary_poster> :-)
[12:10] <gary_poster> ugh, that's a lot of fonts to download.  Did you do a comparison on the download size rick_h_ ?  I'm fine with that landing, but I may want to negotiate with UX if this is a big increase
[12:11] <rick_h_> gary_poster: yea, I'm looking at it qa'ing it now
[12:11] <gary_poster> cool thanks
[12:11] <rick_h_> gary_poster: 482B gzip
[12:11] <rick_h_> gary_poster: well that's the css
[12:11] <gary_poster> B?
[12:11] <rick_h_> gary_poster: there we go, 164KB in fonts
[12:11] <gary_poster> heh
[12:12] <rick_h_> for the woff font in chrome
[12:12] <gary_poster> what was it before do you know?
[12:12] <rick_h_> I'm checking aganist uistage
[12:12] <gary_poster> cool
[12:13] <rick_h_> gary_poster: 164? what it says but wtf
[12:13] <gary_poster> uh
[12:13] <gary_poster> ooooh kay
[12:13] <gary_poster> :-)
[12:14] <gary_poster> maybe the different weights are done programmatically?
[12:14] <rick_h_> checking in FF. Havnig a hard time buying it
[12:14] <gary_poster> thx
[12:19] <bac> oops, i forgot to wear my raring t-shirt today.  /me changes
[12:19] <gary_poster> :-)
[12:20] <rick_h_> gary_poster: oh, so that's the old value. my local instance didn't pick up the change to index.html so it's still loading the old size
[12:20]  * bac much better
[12:21] <rick_h_> gary_poster: so the update isn't much bigger 205KB, but it's 5 files :/
[12:21] <gary_poster> :-/
[12:22] <gary_poster> rick_h_, was how many before? 1?
[12:22] <rick_h_> gary_poster: yea, one request out. Trying to see why it changed to 5. Not used the google webfonts much beyond "I want this font, load"
[12:22] <gary_poster> yeah, me too.
[12:23] <rick_h_> ah, css at least seems to have a diff url for each font/weight
[12:23] <gary_poster> ah that makes sense
[12:24] <rick_h_> well, but had hoped google would combine. Almost wonder if it'll to all of the ubuntu font in one request but larger size that's cached
[12:32] <rick_h_> gary_poster: ok, so I dropped the Book 300. Not sure if we need that one. Got it down to 4 requests. but yea, I'm not sure how to drop it down more without getting UX to agree to limit fonts combo/italics
[12:32] <rick_h_> http://www.google.com/fonts/#UsePlace:use/Collection:Ubuntu+Mono:400,700,400italic,700italic|Ubuntu:400,500,700,400italic,500italic,700italic
[12:33] <gary_poster> rick_h_, ok, thank you.  I'd love to have your research saved someplace for later discussion...
[12:33]  * gary_poster thinks
[12:34] <gary_poster> jujugui blog?  I can put it there or give you posting privs
[12:34] <rick_h_> gary_poster: yea, I'll put this up for review if that's ok and move forward, but file a bug/card to talk with UX on it.
[12:34] <gary_poster> ok perfect thanks rick_h_
[12:34] <rick_h_> gary_poster: sure, I can post something there.
[12:34] <gary_poster> your choice rick_h_ .  I'll go ahead and give you privs, and then you do whichever you prefer
[12:56] <rick_h_> gary_poster: ok, changed my mind. Did some more tweaking, posted to the blog. Thanks for access
[12:57] <rick_h_> gary_poster: if you get a sec, can you +1 the changes since you've peeked at it and we've had the chat?
[12:58] <gary_poster> rick_h_, will do.  thanks for blog post and for the further imporvements you talk about
[12:59] <gary_poster> rick_h_, LGTM done
[12:59] <rick_h_> ty much
[13:01] <hatch> morning!
[13:01] <rick_h_> morn
[13:01] <hatch> rick_h_: looks like I made it an hour early
[13:01] <hatch> lol
[13:01]  * hatch isn't here
[13:02] <rick_h_> hatch: :P yea, I need a sec to swap out hard drives so come back later
[13:02]  * gary_poster looks around, sure he just heard hatch somewhere,,,
[13:02] <hatch> haha
[13:02] <rick_h_> my backup of my backup of my NAS finished after I started work so finally can swap the second drive out
[13:02]  * benji sees a hatch-shaped ghost fly through the wall.
[13:03]  * rick_h_ sees some green goo left behind on the wall and hopes he doesn't have to clean it up :)
[13:03] <hatch> do we have any beer connoisseurs?
[13:03] <rick_h_> wine?
[13:04] <hatch> http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/westmalle-dubbel/2205/
[13:04] <hatch> taists like cherry chocolate :)
[13:55] <gary_poster> ugh
[13:55] <gary_poster> anyone remember where the pyjuju logs are?
[13:55] <gary_poster> on the machines
[13:56] <gary_poster> jujugui ^^
[13:57] <bac> gary_poster: /var/lib/juju/units/.../charm.log ?
[13:57] <bac> i'm not sure about the exact path but you should be able to follow from /var/lib/juju
[13:58] <gary_poster> bac that's it! thank you
[14:01] <gary_poster> hatch, probelm in CI is that make distfile is failing with this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5601096/
[14:01] <hatch> oh awesome you were able to log in
[14:01] <hatch> looking...
[14:01] <gary_poster> I assume we can dupe after a make clean-all
[14:01] <hatch> ugh not that again
[14:01] <gary_poster> hatch, what is that?
[14:02] <hatch> it's a versioning issue
[14:03] <hatch> something between imagemagik and spritegen if I remember correctly
[14:04] <gary_poster> ah
[14:04] <hatch> this happened right after we switched node to 10.x right?
[14:04] <gary_poster> so what was the resolution before?  (and why is it failing only in Canonistack, I wonder?)
[14:04] <gary_poster> yes hatch
[14:05] <hatch> can you do a version check on node, npm and the depdendencies so we can compare them to the working local versions
[14:05] <hatch> maybe for some reason it's getting a different version?
[14:05] <rick_h_> hatch: ready to chat whenever you are
[14:06] <hatch> I can help look through the dependency list if you like as it's pretty large
[14:08] <rick_h_> luca_: so I'm using https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/whatfont/jabopobgcpjmedljpbcaablpmlmfcogm?hl=en to check the fonts and only the readme is incorrect. One suggestion would be to launch a private browsing session so that it should break appcache/js cache and view the page? http://uistage.jujucharms.com:8080/bws/fullscreen/precise/cassandra-2/
[14:08] <gary_poster> hatch, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5601114/ .  Shouldn't the dependencies be the same because of the shrinkwrap?
[14:09] <hatch> yeah they should be
[14:10] <hatch> but outside of the versioning I don't know what else could cause this error
[14:12] <gary_poster> I'm looking to see what version of ImageMagick is on a working precise instance
[14:13] <gary_poster> I'm also thereby running make distfile there
[14:13] <gary_poster> it may be that we don't see this normally because we don't normally start the charm form a branch, and we are just broken on Precise
[14:16] <hatch> ohh that's possible
[14:17] <hatch> let me know if you want me to look into it more
[14:20] <hatch> rick_h_: guichat?
[14:20] <rick_h_> hatch: sure
[14:21] <abentley> rick_h_, alejandraobregon, luca_, jovan2: I've fixed staging, so uistage should also be fixed.
[14:22] <rick_h_> abentley: thanks! what was up? some charm bomb things out?
[14:23] <abentley> rick_h_: mongodb and elasticsearch had config-changed errors, but I don't know why because the debug logs are jammed up back to April 19.
[14:23] <luca_> rick_h_: I sent you an email of what I see in my chrome
[14:23] <luca_> rick_h_: the Ubuntu font isn't showing on the headers
[14:24] <luca_> rick_h_: but it shows in the body copy
[14:24] <rick_h_> luca_: k, otp
[14:32] <hatch> gary_poster: I'm going to get back on this service details stuff, but before I do that did you want me to look into this error or do you have it?
[14:32] <rick_h_> luca_: after this call can we do a hangout on your machine and try to use screen sharing/etc to walk through checking it out?
[14:33] <gary_poster> hatch, problem is in charm making distfile
[14:33] <gary_poster> hatch, if you change juju-gui-source=lp:juju-gui
[14:33] <gary_poster> then you can dupe
[14:34] <gary_poster> hatch, so simplest solution is to just revert the change
[14:34] <gary_poster> hatch I'd like to keep teknico's doc changes
[14:36] <hatch> yeah reverting to node 8.x is a quick fix - just need to change to the legacy ppa
[14:36] <hatch> although that's not going to be available forever
[14:36] <rick_h_> hatch: can you look over that branch please?
[14:36] <hatch> sure
[14:36] <rick_h_> hatch: ty much kind sir
[14:40] <gary_poster> hatch we can make our own PPA, as I proposed (on call, sorry)
[14:41] <hatch> oh right - yeah that should really help solve a lot of our issues....assuming that making our own PPA isn't a huge PITA (I have no idea how that's done)
[14:41] <gary_poster> very easy
[14:48] <hatch> ohh ok well in that case....maybe I Should do it so I can learn how ;)
[15:05] <Makyo> Black magic going on in this dumb zoom code.
[15:08] <hatch> rick_h_: after I reviewed your branch I had an idea about the url stuff re minimized, lemme know when you have a second
[15:09] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, I need a few please. Trying to multi task around calls has me in cirlces atm
[15:09] <hatch> no rush whenever you have time
[15:09] <hatch> but I would really like some starbucks
[15:09] <hatch> hmmm.....
[15:13] <rick_h_> hatch: guichat?
[15:13] <hatch> sure
[15:26] <gary_poster> hatch I'd like to get the charm fixed up ASAP so I can send a juju-core announcement
[15:27] <gary_poster> hatch, talk through it when you are available?  you may be on another call now
[15:27] <hatch> sorry on call with rick_h_
[15:29] <gary_poster> ack
[15:35] <gary_poster> bcsaller, hey.  I'd like to talk over your current card with you when you get a chance, please
[15:43] <hatch> gary_poster: done - did you want to chat?
[15:43] <gary_poster> hatch sure
[15:43] <gary_poster> guichat
[15:45] <bcsaller> gary_poster: I'm around to chat after that
[15:45] <gary_poster> thanks bcsaller
[15:45] <gary_poster> will ping
[15:49] <rick_h_> luca_: ping, still around?
[15:50] <gary_poster> jujugui please update kanban
[15:57] <luca_> rick_h_: I'm available now, are you?
[15:58] <gary_poster> jujugui call in 2
[15:58] <luca_> rick_h_: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/cf491220dfb7736cee2876baf29110eeb52f5997
[16:02] <rick_h_> luca_: one sec
[16:03] <luca_> rick_h_: np
[16:31] <hatch> oh yay they dropped off our curbside recycling bin.....just what I always wanted...to pay for things I already do now for free
[16:43] <hatch> crap, I pushed to the wrong branch and now lbox thinks that's the one it should push to
[16:43] <hatch> anyone run into this before?
[16:47] <benji> hatch: I think you can do a bzr push with --remember to the right branch and lbox will use it from then on
[16:47] <hatch> ahh ok - I just deleted it and started over
[16:47] <hatch> but I'll remember that next time
[16:48] <hatch> gary_poster: bcsaller https://codereview.appspot.com/8631048/ plz
[16:50] <hatch> rick_h_: is the router approach working?
[16:51] <rick_h_> hatch:  no idea yet. Been sidetracked in calls for a bit
[16:51] <hatch> gotcha np
[17:05] <hatch> oh I gota push this to a trunk branch for it to be able to work
[17:05] <hatch> poop
[17:05] <hatch> I forgot about that issue
[17:06] <rick_h_> jovan2: looks like luca ran away. Can you verify that the fonts are all ubuntu for you on staging now please? http://uistage.jujucharms.com:8080/bws/sidebar/precise/ceph-7/
[17:07] <jovan2> rick_h_ will do
[17:08] <jovan2> rick_h_ looking good :)
[17:08] <rick_h_> jovan2: yay!
[17:11] <benji> gary_poster: did you ever figure out where pyjuju puts the logs?  I'd like to look at the gui charm log output.
[17:12] <gary_poster> benji /var/lib/juju/units/.../charm.log.
[17:12] <rick_h_> jovan2: questions posted on https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1172790
[17:12] <_mup_> Bug #1172790: Lots of empty space below charm details <charmbrowser> <juju-gui:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1172790>
[17:12] <jovan2> rick_h_ will send charm icons to you in a mo...
[17:12] <benji> thanks
[17:12] <rick_h_> jovan2: cool, for the featured charms? Those really go to jcastro and arosales
[17:13] <rick_h_> jovan2: I can't get those in
[17:13] <jovan2> rick_h_ yeah but you're being copied in ;)
[17:13] <rick_h_> jovan2: ah ok thanks
[17:29] <arosales> rick_h_, I'll work with my team on getting some merge requests for the icons into charms if I don't have time myself today.
[17:29] <rick_h_> arosales: thanks! I'm working on getting manage.jujucharms.com up and to the latest release so we can get them marked as featured and add QA to somem of them as well
[17:29] <rick_h_> arosales: that'll probably be tomorrow
[17:31] <arosales> rick_h_, sounds good
[17:32] <rick_h_> oh yay, the browser toggle branch landed on staging as well jovan...who left
[17:32]  * rick_h_ hits toggle over and over bwuhahaha
[17:36] <hatch> lol
[17:49] <hatch> the node downgrade appears to be deploying properly on EC2 once it completes all the tests I'll land that branch and get our CI back on track
[17:50] <hatch> but for now I'm going to grab lunch
[17:50] <rick_h_> does JS regex not support /^\/(charms|unit)/ ? for matching a set?
[18:01] <gary_poster> rick_h_, yeah, that would match /charms or /unit or /charmskumquat or /charms/kumquat and so on. :-)
[18:01] <rick_h_> gary_poster: hmm, regex tester fails only matching charms. I'll mess with it some more
[18:02] <rick_h_> I think I'm doomed anyway since I see there's no way to negate that in JS
[18:03] <gary_poster> rick_h_, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5601849/ wfm <shrug>
[18:03] <rick_h_> gary_poster: cool thanks
[18:41] <hatch> rick_h_: oh yeah regex tester has some odd issues, it claims to work with everything js regexy but I've found a number of issues, I usually just try it in the console
[18:41] <hatch> gary_poster: I read charmskumquat as charmsqat lol
[18:41] <gary_poster> :-)
[18:42] <hatch> tests all passed and the branch has been submitted
[18:43] <hatch> so CI should be back on track now
[18:45] <rick_h_> hatch: so I've got a working prototype here but I'm worried if this will always hold true: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/949/
[18:46] <hatch> ok looking
[18:46] <hatch> why would it always hold true?
[18:46] <rick_h_> I'm worried will :gui: always be in the url?
[18:47] <hatch> unless it's on /
[18:47] <hatch> at which point that should be false, and then show the browser
[18:47] <rick_h_> hatch: not that i'll always be true, but that this regex will always catch the internal views. Does :gui: every go out of the url?
[18:47] <rick_h_> hatch: ok, cool then
[18:47] <hatch> if /service /unit or /charms are in the url, it will be under the :gui: namespace
[18:47] <hatch> at least unless something else changes of course
[19:09] <hatch> anyone have any idea why `this.get('env')` in serviceList will return an array of undefined values equal to the number of services in the environment?
[19:12] <hatch> I'm pretty baffled, the envChange event is being fired with an undefined event facade
[19:15] <hatch> O K now I'm bonified confused because it's working now lol
[19:15] <rick_h_> hatch: hmm, login/logout view?
[19:16] <hatch> imho it should be hidden and so should the little toggle button
[19:16] <hatch> but I don't know how much say I have in that decision :D
[19:17] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, but there's no url to check on those
[19:17] <rick_h_> it's determined mid-request processing it looks like?
[19:17] <hatch> { path: '/logout/', callbacks: 'logout'}
[19:17] <hatch> ?
[19:17] <rick_h_> hatch: oh hmm, didn't see it in the browser when I did it
[19:17] <rick_h_> and was checknig for login :)
[19:18] <hatch> but you are right there is no login
[19:18] <hatch> see check_user_credentials
[19:18] <hatch> method
[19:19] <hatch> so we might need manual fn calls in there
[19:19] <hatch> darn!
[19:19] <rick_h_> hatch: checking, so logout I do have a url. And logout shows the login at the same time without another request
[19:20] <rick_h_> so that just works as is, check for that in the url as well
[19:20] <rick_h_> can you get to just login? there's no url for it
[19:20] <gary_poster> benji, would 40 minutes from now work for you?
[19:20] <hatch> if there are no credentials then it shows the login page
[19:20] <hatch> it should redirect to /login
[19:20] <hatch> I've been meaning to bring that up
[19:20]  * hatch creates card
[19:20] <hatch> rick_h_: in the meantime you'll need to call the callback manually in the check_user_credentials method
[19:21] <rick_h_> hatch: does it auto log you in though? I'm logging myself out and then I see a login screen. When I reload, I get the main site
[19:21] <rick_h_> hatch: k, looking for that method
[19:21] <hatch> yeah that's in the config.js
[19:21] <hatch> config-debug.js
[19:21] <hatch> has user: and password: properties
[19:21] <hatch> set those to undefined to land on a login page
[19:21] <rick_h_> hmm, but if I check user credentials it shows the login. I don't want to check it again
[19:22] <rick_h_> ah, but it cancels any other routes so I should be good
[19:22] <rick_h_> it'll show the login and kill dispatch so never hit my stuff
[19:23] <hatch> you want to put your callback call on line 682, right after this.show_login();
[19:23] <hatch> that way if there are no credentials and it's showing the login then hide ths browser
[19:24] <hatch> at least it makes sense in my head
[19:24] <hatch> which has been wrong from time to time ;)
[19:24] <rick_h_> it seems dirty and another edge case for me to cover. Shouldn't subapps get killed on the login?
[19:24] <rick_h_> it seems crazy to need to call another method to force hidden in another corner case.
[19:25] <hatch> well your routes shouldn't be called if there are no credentials
[19:25] <hatch> so....
[19:25] <hatch> yeah
[19:25] <hatch> ignore me
[19:25] <rick_h_> right, that's what I was thinking
[19:26] <rick_h_> cool, I'm happier now
[19:26] <hatch> and I feel dumber
[19:26] <hatch> THANKS!!!
[19:26] <hatch> haha
[19:26] <rick_h_> :P
[19:31] <benji> gary_poster: my internet connection is back from its brief hiatus
[19:32] <gary_poster> hey benji cool.  I asked earlier when I didn't realize that you were gone of we could postpone a half hour from the usual time.  that work?
[19:32] <gary_poster> *if
[19:32] <benji> gary_poster: yep, that's fine
[19:32] <gary_poster> ok thanks benji
[19:47] <rick_h_> hatch: https://codereview.appspot.com/8937046
[19:47] <gary_poster> bac I lost you
[19:49] <hatch> rick_h_: cool, does it work? ;)
[19:49] <rick_h_> hatch: :)
[19:49] <rick_h_> hatch: seems to work fine. Do wish multi-dispatch would run away as it hits it 10 times but works
[19:50] <hatch> lol.....working on it
[19:50] <rick_h_> hatch: if you get a sec for review appreciate it.
[19:52] <hatch> yup doing it right now
[19:52] <rick_h_> hatch: ty
[19:55] <rick_h_> gary_poster: did you email luca over the landscape stuff from https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1171531 ?
[19:55] <_mup_> Bug #1171531: Zoom control <charmbrowser> <juju-gui:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1171531>
[19:56] <gary_poster> rick_h_, I talked to jovan about it.  He said to put the zoom control in the center.  sorry for not updating bug.  would you mind? :-P
[19:57] <rick_h_> not at all, will add note about moving zoom control to the center then. Thanks
[20:00] <hatch> rick_h_: review done
[20:01] <rick_h_> hatch: thanks, looking.
[20:12] <Makyo> jujugui: can I get one more review on https://codereview.appspot.com/8961044/ to help clear a card?
[20:12]  * hatch will do it
[20:13] <Makyo> \o/
[20:16] <hatch> Makyo: done like dinnah
[20:20] <gary_poster> ok benji, sorry, joining
[20:20] <bac> hi hatch can i chat with you for a bit?
[20:20]  * benji looks up the URL
[20:22] <hatch> bac: sure, couple mins, just need to get the dogs in
[20:22] <bac> ok
[20:24] <hatch> ok guichat
[20:25] <hatch> ^ bac
[21:07] <hatch> gary_poster: bac: here was the tiny RTE I was talking about http://mindmup.github.io/bootstrap-wysiwyg/
[21:08] <hatch> I/we could likely convert that to YUI pretty easily
[21:10] <hatch> gary_poster: bac: There is also https://github.com/smugmug/yui-gallery/tree/master/src/sm-editor which is based on Y.Editor
[21:11] <hatch> demo if it http://jsbin.com/abaqiq/2
[21:22] <rick_h_> hatch: some replies sent your way. Will work on adding a functional test. Was having a hard time finding a good home for it/how to get at it but working on it
[21:22] <hatch> thanks - yeah functional tests are hard but I wanted to avoid the case where we release the app and noone noticed that breaking :)
[21:23] <rick_h_> hatch: no, you're right. I did look around but test_app seemed bare and tried to sneak by :P
[21:23] <hatch> haha - nobody lets me sneak by so I'm just passing on the love rofl
[21:34] <rick_h_> hatch: ok, actually found an easy way to test yay. So code going through lbox now :)
[21:35] <hatch> awesome
[21:35] <hatch> !
[21:35] <rick_h_> hatch: if you can get a second to look over before EOD so I can get it through that'd be great please
[21:35] <hatch> yep as soon as it updates I'll do it
[21:35] <rick_h_> doh, linter fail
[21:36] <rick_h_> thanks, clears the way for me to work on making it the default after this :)
[21:37] <hatch> haha - I have started to lint and make all tests pass before final commit so I don't get the last commit being "f'n linter" ;)
[21:42] <hatch> rick_h_: you're gona be irritated but you forgot to destroy app in your new test :)
[21:42] <rick_h_> hatch: lol, well crap. I was trying to use makeApp at first which auto destroyed
[21:42] <rick_h_> but it's nto in this closure so swapped out but missed that my bad
[21:43] <rick_h_> oh wtf, the tests before it app.destroy first?
[21:44] <hatch> afterEach has an app.destroy()
[21:44] <rick_h_> oh hatch there's an ap.destroy in afterEach
[21:44] <hatch> but you created it with var
[21:44] <hatch> :)
[21:44] <rick_h_> ok, I can remove that :P
[21:44] <hatch> haha - it's been LGTM'd
[21:45] <hatch> charmstore is sure gona look good once it has some icons with some color
[21:45] <hatch> like in the mockups
[21:45] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, they got some 10 icons in today but not through injest yet
[21:45] <rick_h_> hopefully tomorrow they'll start to show up
[21:45] <rick_h_> thanks for helping me out with this one today hatch
[21:46] <hatch> anytime
[21:46] <hatch> thanks for the implementation :)
[21:58] <rick_h_> ah crap, test-prod failure now? wtf
[22:31] <hatch> can anyone tell me why charm provides and requires would be undefined in a charm = db.charms.add()
[22:45] <hatch> ahh nm got it....newly introduced byg
[22:45] <hatch> bug
[22:59] <hatch> arg so close to finishing this
[23:53] <gary_poster> hey hatch.  we explicitly don't want a RTE AFAIK, but I imagine bac already said that to you.
[23:53] <gary_poster> Is Rick's recent branch supposed to fix the CI failure?


[08:04] <luis220413> I have an open question in bug 1982670 regarding the security update for Jammy.
[08:11] <luis220413> This is the question (in comment #4): "Is an upgrade to 6.4.12 acceptable for a security update for Jammy, given that the package has an extensive testsuite?"
[08:12] <luis220413> Jammy has 6.4.8-1 and Kinetic has 6.4.8-2. I will file a Debian bug now for the unpatched vulnerabilities.
[08:26] <luis220413> A Debian bug was filed by another person on July 21.
[08:48] <luis220413> I will leave now but I will see your replies in the logs for this channel.
[11:52] <mdeslaur> I commented in the bug
[16:46] <codingkoopa> When a package update is pushed to <release>-security, is the same package uploaded to <release>-updates too, at the same time? Consulting `apt-cache policy`, this seems to be the case on my Ubuntu 18.04 machine (specifically with DigitalOcean mirrors) but not on Debian.
[16:47] <mdeslaur> codingkoopa: it gets copied to -updates about a half-hour later or so
[16:47] <codingkoopa> Perfect, thank you ^^
[16:47] <mdeslaur> codingkoopa: that's so those packages end up being mirrored...security.ubuntu.com isn't mirrored
[16:48] <codingkoopa> ah, that makes sense
[17:20] <sdeziel> mdeslaur: why have the half-hour delay? Isn't it just hitting security.ubuntu.com harder than needed?
[17:20] <mdeslaur> sdeziel: it's copied over at the next publisher run I think
[17:20] <sdeziel> mdeslaur: ah, makes sense then :)
[17:21] <mdeslaur> sdeziel: not sure how often the publisher runs, but something around that
[17:38] <JanC> mdeslaur: -security is mirrored (although probably not from that domain)?
[18:18] <mdeslaur> JanC: it's mirrored, but I think we preconfigure with security.ubuntu.com so that slow mirrors don't impact security updates...I'd have to check a clean install
[18:19] <mdeslaur> ie: by default -security shouldn't be downloaded from mirrors
[20:01] <JanC> yeah, security.ubuntu.com is configured first in most installs, although some cloud & other internal images & such might not...


[03:09] <Asad3ainJalout> Hello guys, I originally wanted to run Kubuntu, however the live cd install from their site lacked many drivers (weird). So I installed Ubuntu and then installed KDE. However, there are some weird bugs. For example after some updates my Display Manager will switch from KDE to Unity. And occassionally instead of opening Dolphin it will open the Unity File Manager. Since I do not use Unity anyways, Is there
[03:09] <Asad3ainJalout> any safe way to uninstall Unity completely.
[06:05] <kyfella> where are all the admins here from
[06:05] <kyfella> new to the channel
[06:06] <mokush> anybody from the romanian kubuntu/kde community around?
[06:06] <kyfella> never been to romania but I heard the landscape out there is totally awesome
[06:06] <kyfella> Im from the USA
[06:07] <kyfella> Anyone else from the US?
[06:07]  * valorie is from Washington state, in the northwest USA
[06:08] <kyfella> hello valarie
[06:08] <kyfella> Im from Kentucky East US
[06:08] <valorie> kyfella: freenode discourages people from staying opped unless necessary
[06:08] <kyfella> let me check
[06:15] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:39] <mohidin> halo
[10:00] <ovidiu-florin> mokush: hello
[10:01] <ovidiu-florin> I'm from the romanian Kubuntu/kde comunity
[10:01] <ovidiu-florin> mokush: how can I help you?
[10:57] <ovidiu-florin> how can I get the kubuntu news feed in agregator?
[10:57] <cortexA9> hello i have a question
[10:58] <cortexA9> can i dual boot kubuntu with windows 8 ?
[11:25] <Gnjurac> hi i installed kubuntu on 512ram mashine whit some shite grapshick thinked it woild work good but it lags a lot is ther a wey to lower all setings to lowest posible or meybe some wey to install xfce
[11:58] <Gargoyle1976> anyone know why a usb mouse would be jerky and a ps2 would be fine?
[12:13] <hateball> Gargoyle1976: is this new hardware, or hardware that has been working "properly" before etc?
[12:18] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[12:45] <Gargoyle1976> hateball: I had to change out my video card and my usb mouse started being jerky.  Tried ps2 and it works fine
[12:45] <Gargoyle1976> hateball: It was fine before I had to change the vid card
[12:46] <hateball> Gargoyle1976: Heh, that's quite odd. Is it the same regardless of USB port?
[12:46] <hateball> I'm thinking if it's a power issue or something
[12:46] <Gargoyle1976> hateball: yes.  check on all usb ports but same problem
[12:47] <Gargoyle1976> hateball: weird
[12:47] <hateball> hmmm
[12:48] <hateball> Gargoyle1976: Did you change from like Intel -> nVidia ?
[12:50] <Gargoyle1976> hateball: nvidia 9600gt ---> nvidia gt610
[12:50] <Gargoyle1976> less 3d proc pwr but newer procs regardless
[12:51] <hateball> hmmm, then I guess it's still the same driver as well
[12:51] <hateball> didnt change from nvidia binary to nouveau or something?
[12:54] <BluesKaj> Gargoyle1976:  install dkms , the run dkms status to see which video driver is installed
[12:54] <BluesKaj> then
[12:57] <hateball> Still, it's weird the driver should affect a USB mouse, but you never know
[12:59] <Gargoyle1976> hateball: ok
[13:00] <Gargoyle1976> hateball: what is the process to run dkms?  switches?
[13:11] <hateball> Gargoyle1976: I don't know, it was BluesKaj's suggestion :)
[13:11]  * hateball only uses Intel stuff
[13:12] <Gargoyle1976> whoops..sorry
[13:12] <Gargoyle1976> blueskaj: what is the process to run dkms? switches?
[13:12] <BluesKaj> dkms status , Gargoyle1976
[13:13] <Gargoyle1976> blueskaj: Got an error.  Couldn't find dkms.conf
[13:14] <Gargoyle1976> blueskaj: nvidia-310-updates, 310.44, 3.8.0-30-generic, i686: installedError! Could not locate dkms.conf file.
[13:14] <Gargoyle1976> File:  does not exist.
[13:14] <BluesKaj> it tells us which dynamic kernel module/driver is supported
[13:14] <BluesKaj> install dkms
[13:15] <Gargoyle1976> blueskaj: It's installed...remove and re-install?
[13:15] <BluesKaj> it tells us which dynamic kernel module/driver is installed and supported
[13:15] <BluesKaj> rather
[13:16] <BluesKaj> perhaps , but sometimes just a reinstall works , Gargoyle1976
[13:17] <Gargoyle1976> it says it is already newest version
[13:23] <BluesKaj> Gargoyle1976:  another method is , glxinfo | grep OpenGL
[13:24] <BluesKaj> but from your previous post above it seems the 319 driver is installed
[13:25] <BluesKaj> err the 310 rather
[13:25]  * BluesKaj cleans his glasses
[13:27] <Gargoyle1976> blueskaj: gotta run out thanks for the input
[13:28] <BluesKaj> np Gargoyle1976
[13:44] <soee> BluesKaj, http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19498450.aspx
[13:44] <soee> ill dig through it but good to know im not alone :)
[13:46] <Mocque> hello
[13:55] <BluesKaj> !bumblebee | soee
[13:55] <BluesKaj> hmm , I have bumblebee in the repos on 13.10 , soee
[13:55] <soee> :)
[13:56] <excognac> hi all. I suspect i have a stuck ctrl key, it is quite annoying in grub bootmenu. any ideas how to get rid of it? (plugging an external keyboard in doesn't help)
[13:56] <BluesKaj> soee:  http://bumblebee-project.org/
[13:57] <Roey> hi BluesKaj
[13:58] <BluesKaj> hi Roey
[13:59] <soee> BluesKaj, and wht with this nvidia-prime http://www.webupd8.org/2013/08/using-nvidia-graphics-drivers-with.html ?
[14:06] <lordievader> Good afternoon.
[14:57] <lattera> so I installed ubuntu, then apt-get'ed kubuntu-full... looks like Dolphin can't connect to my CIFS shares
[15:02] <lattera> I'm just getting an access denied error
[22:00] <alphacrypt> hi how can just clean the /etc/apt/sources.list
[22:01] <alphacrypt> apt-get update makes an error N: Datei Â»cdÂ« in Verzeichnis Â»/etc/apt/sources.list.d/Â« wird ignoriert, da sie keine Dateinamen-Erweiterung hat. because of locale problems the special characters are shown strange?
[22:01] <alphacrypt> maybe you can just help me
[22:09] <Canid> Hello - I am getting an error in SHotwell to do with write permissions, but I have write permission to the folder it mentions
[22:11] <Canid> 1 photo failed to import because the photo library folder was not writable:
[22:12] <Canid> /media/canid/Data/Pictures/Family/Photo Archives - Other/Daniel/SAM_0140.JPG
[22:12] <Canid> The photo library folder is writable
[22:13] <Canid> I found a but report saying this error was due to write permission where shotwell stores its thumbnails... but hat folder is writable too
[22:16] <Canid> if I enter SHOTWELL_LOG=1 shotwell into the terminal, I get a parsing error about the color theme - could that be related?
[22:28] <kristal> Guize please save me from the Unity.... is 13.10 stable enough yet?


[02:31] <ion_> http://heh.fi/tmp/kaukajarvi (panorama)
[10:57] <sadleder> hi Keybuk, is there any expected release for upstart and related jobs for Ubuntu gutsy?


[06:59] <vish> troy_s: hey, do you have the blender files for the UW logo you had done? or any other blender files you can share would be nice too.. i would like to learn to use blender  ;)
[07:13] <vish> troy_s: when you get around to it , can you mail them to me ? : vish at ubuntu.com , thanks in advance  :)
[07:14] <vish> darkmatter: do you have a bunch of devs interested in creating a new editor?  or just making a mockup-ish to improve GIMP?
[07:14] <vish> ie to send to the GIMP guys..
[07:44] <darkmatter> vish: I'm actually thinking of doing my own. I'm just using the gimp to play around with as much as I can before finalizing a look/feel (I know one or two devs who _may_ be available, plus I can code as well, I just dun wanna run this solo), but the stuff I do do to the gimp I'll probably send to the gimp guys as a suggestion. it's not like it's a radical core overhaul or anything
[07:49] <darkmatter> vish: but I want to create something drastically cleaner and more portable (touchscreens, netbooks, etc. it should just fit/function wher it lands), few different approaches to organization of tools (toolbox for the "always there" essentials, main window nd contextual for image/layer/function specifics. still organizing that stuff on paper). something that isn't little or big, but highly modular. ships with just the right mix by defau
[07:56] <darkmatter> vish: that's why all the stuff I've been working on is taking so fraking long. aside from a few new ideas I've had to hybridize the interfaces at the conceptual level. it's not about "an interface for everyone" generic-fail. it's about a ui you can take with you (as in have a familiar tool on various devices with various inputs like tablets etc)
[07:58] <vish> yeah, sending to the GIMP guys should be easier , if we fork/start new , it becomes a huge burden to maintain :s
[07:59] <vish> wasnt there a spin-off of gimp already.. i recall a UDS video of a guy called the 'ingimp guy' or something?
[08:00] <vish> which was a few minor changes to how gimp behaved/reacted
[08:07] <darkmatter> vish: yeah. and it is a totally useless so-called fork, not even remotely design or usability oriented
[08:08] <darkmatter> vish: gimpshop. gimp with more photoshop like menus (layout, naming conventions). that's not an improvement by any means imo, and is a complete waste of time
[08:08] <vish> darkmatter: yeah , it was about getting the drunk to draw proper circles! ;p
[08:22] <darkmatter> vish:  but the overall concept is thus: instead of shipping a massive suite (ala photoshop) and marketing it as do-all-end all (be it a new app or just a re envisioned gimp). (re)design as an application that grows with you. have sane defauts/intuitive ui than even a begin artist can wrap their head around with ease. if your needs are more advanced, or as your skills grow and you need more advance tools/features, those become accessib
[08:22] <darkmatter> vish: that there is a winning formula imo
[08:23] <vish> darkmatter: +1  sane defaults to start with, allowing it to get insane is the way to go :)
[08:23] <darkmatter> simplicity and ease of learning + power as it is needed
[08:24] <vish> there *can* *not* be a one size fits all!
[08:24] <darkmatter> vish: of course we'd have to set rules regarding hoe extensions plug into the ui level, so that even the insanity is coherent :P
[08:26] <vish> ;)
[08:26] <darkmatter> vish: I'm not saying one size fits all. that's not a possibility. it would never be a gimp or photoshop per se, but it would be allowed to grow with the user until there skill bypasses it's usefulness
[08:26] <vish> darkmatter: nah, i dint say you were saying that.. but thats what people often try to do
[08:27] <darkmatter> we dun wanna create a graphics version of firefox after all *shudders at the thought*
[08:27] <vish> darkmatter: like i cant understand why a tablet oriented design is used for the metacity title bar.. each needs its own design..
[08:28] <vish> or are we just being lazy :/
[08:28] <thorwil> lazy
[08:28] <darkmatter> *shrugs*
[08:30] <thorwil> also certain people seem to have reached a 2nd stage of design sensibilities, where they just learned that whitespace is useful. the next stage then is about using it in a modest way ;)
[08:32]  * darkmatter points at gnome3's metacity accusingly
[08:32] <thorwil> for touch vs mouse, a lot could be gained by having a scaling parameter (though not necessarily enough)
[08:34] <darkmatter> thorwil: I was actually "attempting" to start a discussion about scaling and a few other things in g-d a few days ago, but super-jumbo default targets seem more practical I guess ;P
[08:37] <vish> it's easy to blame Ubuntu for trying to 'fork gnome', Unity! , but very often the case is that people at gnome are not very open to suggestions :(
[08:39] <darkmatter> vish: they blame everyone for "forking" like when novell first changed gnomes defaults to fit with their customers needs. that was a royal shitstorm
[08:40] <darkmatter> vish: I remember trying to explain to some gnomers that it wasn't a fork, it was applets. complete denial. it had to be a fork. yup. because the gnomers said so
[08:43] <darkmatter> vish: and usually they don't even have the courtesy to deny your suggestion verbally. they just pretend you're not there ;)
[08:43] <vish> lol!
[08:46] <doctormo> vish: Open to suggestions? This would be the same gnome that doesn't take advantage of xdg and instead persists in gconf. It's not just their UI design that lacks sensibilities, but also their infrastructure design.
[08:49] <vish> doctormo: i just imagined that the 'gnome does not accept patches from canonical' was a myth , but i noticed this first hand while trying to get patches accepted Upstream , they just dont want to respond when the patches are being done by a canonical employee :(
[08:49] <darkmatter> speaking of xdg and other related stuff, I remember suggesting once that they should consider adopting the .directory specification. all I heard was crickets chirping
[08:49] <darkmatter> vish: and people wonder why I don't file bugs against gnome :P
[08:50] <doctormo> darkmatter: There are a pile of infrastructure projects that are just failing to get traction because of the gnome project. I'm glad Zeiguist has the forsight to push forward anyway.
[08:50] <darkmatter> doctormo: indeed
[08:51] <darkmatter> I'm considering moving back to ubuntu. less religion and elitism
[08:51] <vish> when gnome3 started , i recall zeitgeist being the main selling point! but now that dropped flat :/
[08:51] <doctormo> darkmatter: If I had a few billion rupees, I'd dump EDS, gconf and gvfs and replace them all with lower in the stack projects.
[08:52] <vish> doctormo: rupeeeeeeeeeees! ? ;D
[08:52] <darkmatter> doctormo: yeah. I've talked about winning the lottery myself (amongst people that actual _listen_ to ideas ;))
[08:53] <doctormo> darkmatter: Had a very interesting chat with Mark about this problem and it's really boiling down to: It's not economical to make pipes.
[08:54] <doctormo> So the only way to make pipes is either government funding, charity or massive amounts of programmers dedicating their time out of compassion.
[08:54] <doctormo> Sure as hell can't get OEMs to put any money into it.
[08:57] <darkmatter> " but, but! if that scenario arose you'd piss off a lot of devs!"(regarding having a wallet to back up words and making serious fixes). yeah, well, they pissed me off first. eye for an eye :P
[08:57] <troy_s> vish: It is pretty hard to learn from Blender files.
[08:58] <troy_s> vish: Especially some of the more intermediate concepts. Even then, I'm more of a 2D fellow than a 3D, although I've learnt enough to survive. There is an interesting side of Blender that not many think of - the ability to create working interface mocks using the game engine.
[08:58] <darkmatter> pissing of elitists = progress
[09:00] <darkmatter> that's why they tend to get so fired up, it's not because you're making changes, it's because you're making _improvements_
[09:00] <darkmatter> narcissism: the straw that broke the camels back
[09:01] <troy_s> darkmatter: Improvements are relative. One man's meat be another's poison.
[09:01] <darkmatter> troy_s: buzzkill :P
[09:04] <vish> troy_s: nah , usually i like breaking down things that are already done, while i learn something new , it somehow helps me learn quicker :)
[09:04] <troy_s> vish: It might be easier to just get handed through it. If you are interested, I can probably help step you through bits a little bit at a time. It would depend on what you want to learn though.
[09:04] <troy_s> vish: I'm likely not the most useful fellow if your needs are strictly 3D.
[09:05] <troy_s> vish: And if you are looking for all of the work in the uW, the repository has everything. All sources.
[09:05] <troy_s> vish: But again, you may need to at least wrap your head around some of the basic useful bits. Like the ability to find missing files to resolve pathnames etc.
[09:05] <vish> troy_s: not 3D , i liked how you had done those presentations, i just dont know how to do that yet.. Its something i intend to get used to slowly :)
[09:06] <troy_s> vish: It's very simple really.
[09:06] <troy_s> vish: The worst thing you can do (arguably with _anything_) is start with the tool. Tools make tools.
[09:06] <troy_s> vish: If you start with a goal and work backwards, it is _far_ easier, and much easier for someone to help you get there.
[09:06] <vish> troy_s: oh , resources repository? i'm not sure where that is..
[09:08] <troy_s> vish: https://code.launchpad.net/~troy-sobotka/+junk/ubuntu-women-community-identity
[09:08] <darkmatter> nut my move back to ubuntu is gonna have to wait, I don't really feel like I wanna install twice in two months
[09:08] <troy_s> vish: It was unfortunate that they took the bits _out_ of there. I tried to make it clear to leave the bits _in_ there so that they were able to be updated 100% of the time. Now there is a sync issue. For example, there is a spelling mistake in the identity standards manual...
[09:09] <troy_s> vish: Had the 'official' link been to the repository itself, it wouldn't be an issue to fix.
[09:09] <vish> hmm..
[09:10] <vish> troy_s: neat thanks for that link.. yeah, blender is something i'm interested in getting more familiar with at some point.. i just need to make time for it  :)
[09:10] <thorwil> vish: what are you planning to do with blender?
[09:10] <troy_s> vish: But anyways, that's what you were asking for. It is all in there. You will need to re-link the files (as I didn't embed them) but that is painless as it is a menu selection from the File menu.
[09:11] <vish> thorwil: no solid plan yet, but _everyone_ seems gah gah over it , so i'm just interested :)
[09:11] <troy_s> vish: It is the only tool that is even remotely close to useful in the broad scope. Still missing a few vital and critical aspects, but those are in the pipes.
[09:12] <troy_s> vish: Doubly so if Ton does a live action project next. *cough*
[09:13] <thorwil> vish: heh, yeah, it's an incredible application and a very well run project
[09:13] <troy_s> It is very simple as to why it exceeds all of the other tripe that professes to be about everyone
[09:14] <troy_s> It _isn't_. And even better, it is put through real-world paces at regular intervals with external pipeline requirements (Such as DPX 10 bit log needs, etc.)
[09:14] <troy_s> That said, there are a few remaining glaring holes that need to be filled.
[09:17] <troy_s> Wholly crapistan are those videos... well... so Ubuntu.
[09:17] <vish> hehe! Ubuntu!Movies! ;p
[09:17] <vish> ?
[09:17] <troy_s> vish: Yes. Very uh...
[09:17] <troy_s> vish: Ubuntuific.
[09:18] <troy_s> vish: When I say it is a cultural problem... I am pretty sure that sort of output reinforces it.
[09:18] <doctormo> darkmatter: meat/poison, first one then the other.
[09:19]  * vish lunches!
[09:19] <troy_s> vish: Ciao.
[09:27] <troy_s> Night droogies.
[11:01] <thorwil> so looking into how the inkscape tiled clones dialog could be improved, i landed on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallpaper_group
[16:28] <knome> hey, does anybody know how to control thunderbird menubar from gtkrc?
[16:29] <knome> the text is dark grey in our theme, but we need to change it to white since the background is blue
[21:21] <darkmatter> knome: userchrome.css. you can't properly theme xul apps from gtk proper (yet) because of the way xul apps handle menus/bars (particularly the text)
[21:22] <knome> we've managed to tweak the firefox menubar.
[21:24] <darkmatter> firefox is reasonable. it's an age thing (they tend to spend the most effort on having it git in, since it's default almost everywhere). but thunderbird, sunbird, and other xul apps can be pigheaded to various degrees
[21:24] <knome> can userchrome.css be theme-specific?
[21:25] <darkmatter> yup. to a cetian degree. the user chome for sonar in opensuse is hosted bt the actual theme itself. sec
[21:31] <darkmatter> knome: example userChrome.css from openSUSE. it's how the prevent the dropdown in the awesomebar from being all black and fugly. frome /usr/share/themes/Sonar/mozilla: http://pastebin.ca/1927940
[21:32] <knome> seems like pastebin.ca is damn slow
[21:33] <darkmatter> exactly how much xul themeing can be hosted external (beyons the . directory), of that I'm uncertain, I haven't had a chance to tinker with it yet
[21:33] <knome> and yeah, i know userchrome.css, but that's not really a preferred solution if it can't be theme-specific
[21:34] <darkmatter> knome: no. I mean at least in that degree it is theme specific. if you pull the css out of the theme directory and reaplly sonar it goes all funky
[21:34] <knome> right
[21:35] <darkmatter> it's just the degree to which that functionality is exportable of which I'm uncertain
[21:35] <knome> mm-hmm
[21:37] <knome> but then, if you disable the theme, you should remove the userchrome.css again to revert back to normal
[21:37] <knome> i'm not really sure if that's possible
[21:39] <darkmatter> pkus naming conventions. do we just need the mozilla subfolder for the theme _or_ do we also need to have say, thunderbird and sunbird (since they have there own config directories). I would hope that's not the case, and that it's just using the mozilla namespace in the general sense, but again. I don't have any documentation oin that. the only way I learned you could export the user chrome at all was seeing that when the css was firs
[21:40] <knome> "the css was firs --" ?
[21:41] <darkmatter> knome: no. I mean that css in sonar doesn't get copied to your firefox profile. it stays in the theme (that's from Sonar/mozilla) and works from there
[21:41] <knome> aha..
[21:41] <darkmatter> knome: was first added and going hmmm and then pissing around a bit<-- tht
[21:44] <darkmatter> but like I said, I don't know if that behaviour is unique to firefox or not, but it appears the moz namespace can be read from an external directory for themeing (if only in a limited fashion) I just need to find the time to really play around and see how far it goes
[21:44] <knome> yeah
[21:44] <knome> right
[21:44] <knome> is there some documentation?
[21:44] <knome> (i'd *REALLY* just would like to change the menubar color, nothing else :))
[21:45] <knome> menubar text color, i mean :)
[21:48] <darkmatter> yeah. I know. gotta love self hosting toolkits :P
[21:49] <darkmatter> ok. self-hosting sounds off, but I just work up and havent dosed with coffee yet, so you'll have to just deal with it :P
[21:49] <knome> np ;)


[08:04] <dholbach> good morning
[08:50] <dholbach> dpm, mhall119: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33284171/added-updated-pages-in-wrong-place-in-django-cms-article-tree-using-postgres/33399188#33399188
[08:51] <dholbach> I'll try to upgrade mptt and see if that helps
[08:51] <dholbach> we should really make https://code.launchpad.net/~developer-ubuntu-com-dev/developer-ubuntu-com/1470715/+merge/268471 a priority
[08:51] <dholbach> especially now with landings being possible again
[08:57] <dpm> thanks dholbach!
[08:59] <dpm> dholbach, the bug report does only say do django upgrade. From which version to which version, and why do we need the upgrade?
[09:01] <dholbach> it's slightly outdated
[09:03] <dpm> ok, I can see the new revision on the diff too: 1.8.4
[09:05] <dpm> it seems we should be able to drop South too, as 1.7 shipped built-in schema migration?
[09:06] <dholbach> yes
[09:07] <dholbach> that's why the diff of the MP is so big
[09:07] <dholbach> all migrations need to be converted from the old to the new format
[09:07] <dholbach> everything from L525 onwards it the non-migrations part of the diff
[09:09] <dholbach> but for bug 1506861 we probably don't need the full upgrade
[09:09] <ubot2> bug 1506861 in developer-ubuntu-com "Markdown article importer messes up article tree" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1506861
[09:09] <dholbach> it might make sense to fix this issue before
[09:11] <dholbach> WOW
[09:11] <dholbach> it looks like manage.py cms fix-mptt  actually made it work
[09:12] <dholbach> I'll embed it in my testing
[09:15] <dholbach> Daniele is a great guy - he's a contact from mhall119
[09:15] <dholbach> I'll ask him if he has an Amazon Wishlist or something
[09:16] <dpm> :-)
[09:40] <dholbach> hum, that might have been a bit premature... it just worked one time now - I'll need to figure out more specifically how it works and under which conditions it fixes the issue
[09:40] <dholbach> it looks like we should move off of the old django cms (and with that off of mptt to treebeard) in any case
[09:59] <czajkowski> aloha
[10:00] <dpm> morning czajkowski
[10:02] <dpm> dholbach, I guess it's a two step process, right? First upgrade django (which we can theoretically do right now) and then migrate to treebeard?
[10:03] <dholbach> dpm, I personally would for now just upgrade to a newer mptt and apply the fix-mptt change (if I can make sure that fixes everything we need in the importer)
[10:03] <dholbach> and then do the big upgrade where we do django and everything else
[10:03] <dholbach> and migrate to treebeard with that at the same time
[10:03] <dholbach> the big upgrade will need a lot of testing to see if all plugins still work etc
[10:04] <dholbach> maybe we can try to do a better job staying on current stuff later on
[10:04] <dpm> dholbach, ok
[10:04] <dholbach> but we can discuss it later on with davidcalle and mhall119 if you like
[10:04] <dholbach> just to see how everyone feels about it
[10:04] <dholbach> for now I'll just work on an isolated fix for the importer
[10:05] <dholbach> davidcalle, mhall119's contact gave us some food for thought (and experimentation: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33284171/)
[10:05] <dholbach> I'll let you know how it goes :)
[11:36] <dholbach> davidcalle, mhall119: if you have some time later on, I'd appreciate a review (and testing) of https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/developer-ubuntu-com/1506861/+merge/276104
[12:00] <dholbach> davidcalle, mhall119: and there's https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/developer-ubuntu-com/1510904/+merge/276111 now
[12:02] <dholbach> with that I I'll run out for lunch :-)
[12:02] <dholbach> see you later!
[12:50] <dpm> davidcalle, could you add a description for the "JavaScript scopes hands-on" session? I'm writing a blog post announcing the summit and I wanted to highlight it :)
[13:48] <dholbach> dpm, davidcalle, mhall119: shall we have a chat about landing the rest of MPs in our docs hour call in 40m?
[13:49] <dpm> dholbach, sounds good to me
[13:49] <mhall119> dholbach: works for me
[13:50] <dholbach> awesome
[14:21] <davidcalle> dpm, sure!
[14:21] <davidcalle> dholbach, sure!
[14:29] <davidcalle> dholbach, mhall119, will be 5 min late
[14:30] <dholbach> ok
[14:35] <dpm> dholbach, will be a few mins
[14:35] <mhall119> seems we all will ;)
[14:39] <popey> we hanging out?
[15:27] <dholbach> davidcalle, I'll test yours in a sec
[15:28] <dholbach> let me know if you have any feedback about the branches
[15:28] <davidcalle> dholbach, yep
[15:32] <dholbach> davidcalle, <IP_ADDRESS>/:44 Uncaught TypeError: window.location.href.contains is not a function
[15:32] <davidcalle> waaat
[15:34] <dholbach> davidcalle, this seems to work .indexOf(...) > -1
[15:40] <davidcalle> dholbach, where do you see this issue?
[15:40] <dholbach> trunk
[15:40] <dholbach> trunk + your branch using chromium
[15:40] <davidcalle> dholbach, this output I mean
[15:40] <dholbach> in the js console
[15:40] <dholbach> press f12
[15:41] <davidcalle> dholbach, works in firefox :p
[15:41] <dholbach> does it work for you in chromium?
[15:42] <davidcalle> dholbach, just tested in chrome, doesn't work
[15:43] <dholbach> this might work: if(window.location.href.indexOf("cn.developer.ubuntu.com") == -1)
[15:43] <dholbach> I'm still trying to figure out how to pretend I'm "cn.developer.ubuntu.com"
[15:44] <dholbach> nevermind, I was a bit dense :)
[15:44] <dholbach> shall we remove http://stats.g.doubleclick.net/dc.js as well?
[15:44] <dholbach> not sure where that's coming from
[15:45] <davidcalle> dholbach, don't know
[15:45] <dholbach> ok
[15:45] <dholbach> so the check I posted above wfm
[15:45] <dholbach> both in chromium and firefox
[15:46] <davidcalle> dholbach, was testing, can confirm
[15:46]  * davidcalle changes
[15:51] <davidcalle> dholbach, updated: https://code.launchpad.net/~davidc3/developer-ubuntu-com/analytics-exclude-cn-domain/+merge/275887
[15:53] <dholbach> approved
[15:55] <davidcalle> Yay
[15:55]  * davidcalle hugs dholv
[15:55] <jcastro> popey: this latest podcast is brilliant, well done
[15:55] <davidcalle> *dholbach
[15:55] <jcastro> well, brilliant so far I mean, in the middle of listening
[15:55]  * dholbach hugs davidcalle back
[15:56] <popey> ooh, cool, thanks jcastro
[16:26] <davidcalle> dholbach, I'm impatient to test your importer fix on staging!
[16:26] <dholbach> davidcalle, oh ok... I thought somebody was going to review and test them?
[16:26] <dholbach> or do we just push to trunk?
[16:26] <davidcalle> dholbach, I've just tried it :)
[16:27] <dholbach> ah! great!
[16:27] <dholbach> so I can push to trunk now? :)
[16:27] <davidcalle> dholbach, yep :)
[16:28] <dholbach> both?
[16:28] <davidcalle> dholbach, haven't tested git yet, and taking tristan to the doc in 10 min :/
[16:29] <dholbach> ^ mhall119 - can you look at the git branch then?
[16:29] <dholbach> I'll merge the other one
[16:30] <mhall119> dholbach: do we know that bzr and git command-line tools are available on the server?
[16:30] <dholbach> it'd surprise me a lot if bzr wasn'T
[16:30] <dholbach> but for git we should ask
[16:31] <davidcalle> bzr is, since it imports on tsaging
[16:31] <davidcalle> staging*
[17:04] <dholbach> mhall119 (and davidcalle|afk): I pushed a check for bzr/git availability to the branch
[17:05] <dholbach> I hope that's better
[17:08] <dholbach> all right - I call it a day - see you all tomorrow!
[19:00] <dpm> hi czajkowski, around?
[19:05] <dpm> czajkowski, nm, we can chat tomorrow if you're around
[19:05] <dpm> calling it a day for today
[19:05] <dpm> see you all tomorrow!


[12:17] <foxhound31> yeah at the moment
[12:17] <foxhound31> i'm actually trying to decide between ubuntu and suse
[12:17] <jjesse> ubuntu of course :)
[12:18] <foxhound31> cos most of all i have decided to dump my windows cos dont need it for anything anymore
[12:18] <Burgwork> we are kind of biased here
[12:18] <foxhound31> indeed :)
[12:18] <foxhound31> if i want a os for myself then its ubuntu
[12:19] <foxhound31> but suse will make inroads into business desktops in the future
[12:19] <foxhound31> so it might be handy to know it for work
[12:20] <foxhound31> can you do an internet install in ubuntu?
[12:21] <Burgwork> yes
[12:22] <foxhound31> great
[12:22] <Burgwork> you can also kickstart it
[12:22] <Burgwork> there is a team in ubuntu to make our centralized management better
[12:23] <foxhound31> its picked up market share a lot lately is that true?
[12:23] <Burgwork> yes
[12:23] <foxhound31> was looking at wine app databse
[12:23] <foxhound31> and taking the stats by distro
[12:23] <foxhound31> ubuntu was out near the top
[12:24] <foxhound31> so looks that way
[12:25] <foxhound31> was also suprised how many games run in wine without anyform of winex cedega
[12:28] <Burgwork> different markets need different things
[12:28] <Burgwork> the gaming market is a giant red herring
[12:28] <Burgwork> enterprise desktops are far more interesting
[12:28] <foxhound31> think so
[12:28] <foxhound31> plus my belief is that longterm the PC wont be a games platform anymore
[12:29] <foxhound31> the companies want a secure platform that they can be sure wont be warezed
[12:29] <foxhound31> and games ripped off
[12:30] <foxhound31> if your in europe Burgwork which country are you in
[12:31] <Burgwork> canada
[12:34] <foxhound31> well not exactley in europe but not exactley non european either
[12:34] <foxhound31> Canada still has a few european parts to its character
[12:35] <foxhound31> I'm in Edinburgh
[12:35] <foxhound31> the one in Scotland
[12:35] <foxhound31> the real one
[12:35] <Burgwork> canada is increasingly european is feel
[12:35] <foxhound31> saw the news from Nova Scotia once
[12:36] <foxhound31> it was like hearing the Scottish news wth a Canadian accent
[12:36] <foxhound31> very strange great tho
[12:42] <foxhound31> yeah will go with ubuntu but get the kde version
[12:42] <foxhound31> see you
[12:43] <foxhound31> thanks
[12:50] <LaserJock> that was ... interesting
[12:50] <nixternal> [17:42:53]  <foxhound31> yeah will go with ubuntu but get the kde version
[12:50] <nixternal> WOOHOO
[12:51] <nixternal> he is super smart!
[12:51] <Burgwork> blah
[12:51] <nixternal> gahahaha
[12:51] <Burgwork> another one down the drain
[12:51] <Burgwork> he seemed to promising
[12:51] <nixternal> lol
[12:52] <nixternal> woohoo...amarok so kicks arse..they now have the magnatune setup...so you can purchases DRM-free music!!!
[01:23] <LaserJock> Burgwork: have you ever tried Mambo or Joomla?
[01:23] <Burgwork> neither
[01:33] <nixternal> LaserJock: they were both garbage when i first messed with them a few months back
[01:34] <nixternal> unfortunately, i prefer drupal over them
[01:34] <LaserJock> well, they seem really blingy
[01:36] <LaserJock> what I'd really like is web-based project management for personal use
[01:37] <LaserJock> dotproject seems to be a bit overkill
[01:37] <Burgwork> LaserJock: activeCollab
[01:37] <Burgwork> it rocks
[01:38] <LaserJock> but I've got PHP4 :(
[01:38] <Burgwork> php5 is supported
[01:38] <Burgwork> 4 is not
[01:39] <Burgwork> dump that 4 crap
[01:39] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:40] <LaserJock> Burgwork: is it a lot better then dotproject?
[01:40] <Burgwork> tons
[01:40] <Burgwork> dotproject is a giant bloated piece of crap
[01:40] <dsas> LaserJock: It's not open source but http://www.backpackit.com/ is supposed to be pretty good.
[01:40] <jjesse_> we use dotProject at work and i don't like it at all
[01:40] <Burgwork> activeCollab is open source backpack
[01:41] <LaserJock> I more or less just want: calendar/wiki or notes/task tracking
[01:41] <LaserJock> I just need to organize my Ubuntu work better
[01:41] <Burgwork> for that, I would use tomboy
[01:41] <LaserJock> but I work from multiple machines
[01:41] <Burgwork> and the ubuntu wiki
[01:41] <Burgwork> why not the main ubuntu wiki?
[01:41] <jjesse_> tomboy is included in edgy right now isn't it
[01:41] <Burgwork> yes, yes it is
[01:42] <LaserJock> well, the ubuntu wiki isn't really that ideal
[01:42] <LaserJock> I'd also probably use it for work too
[01:43] <Burgwork> honestly, I use tomboy
[01:43] <Burgwork> I need to play with conduit
[01:43] <nixternal> LaserJock: just setup a personal mediawiki server or what not
[01:43] <Burgwork> mediawiki is pretty heavy
[01:43] <dsas> I think tomboy is planned to get sharing one day...
[01:43] <Burgwork> coming
[01:44] <Burgwork> but conduit can give you it now
[01:44] <LaserJock> nixternal: yeah, the hosting place for laserjock.us only has tikiwiki (huge) and phpwiki by defailt
[01:44] <nixternal> Emacs Wiki
[01:44] <nixternal> ;(
[01:44] <LaserJock> I might just try phpwiki to start with
[01:44] <nixternal> ;) rather
[01:44] <LaserJock> well
[01:44] <LaserJock> I've done that in the past
[01:44] <LaserJock> but I work on like 4 different machines
[01:45] <LaserJock> it's tough to keep things coordinated
[01:45] <dsas> Personally I use pen and paper still, with a calendar for appointments/deadlines.
[01:46] <LaserJock> heh, well if that worked for me I'd already be doing it. no matter what though I need to get more disciplined with it
[01:46] <nixternal> [18:45:18]  <dsas> Personally I use pen and paper still, with a calendar for appointments/deadlines
[01:46] <nixternal> so do i, and then input it later
[01:46] <jjesse_> grin i use OneNote for most of my stuff
[01:46] <nixternal> omg
[01:47] <nixternal> jjesse_ is a traitor!
[01:47] <jjesse_> grin
[01:47] <nixternal> hehe
[01:47] <LaserJock> poor jjesse_
[01:47] <nixternal> i will admit, OneNote is super nice
[01:47] <jjesse_> i still have to use windows as my primary OS, need access to SQL Site management and Visual Studio
[01:47] <jjesse_> unless SQL management studio 2005 can be run under win/
[01:47] <jjesse_> wine?
[01:48] <Burgwork> jjesse_: you need a new job
[01:48] <jjesse_> Burgwork: no i like my job
[02:00] <nixternal> Burgwork: you read Jono's LoCo meeting email wrong, 10pm not 10am, so that would be 2pm your time
[02:01] <nixternal> you seen 10, and though 10:00 and not 22:00 more than likely
[02:38] <jjesse_> did everyone leave?
[02:39] <pygi> nop
[02:41] <dsas> not yet.
[02:41] <jjesse_> just got reall quiet :)
[02:49] <pygi> jjesse_: considering it's almost 3 AM ... :P
[02:49] <jjesse_> i figured everyone was in bed :)
[02:50] <jjesse_> hardly any doc team members in my time zone
[02:50] <jjesse_> eastern
[02:53] <LaserJock> jjesse_: no,  but I'm in Pacific :p
[02:54] <Williamts99> Hello, I created a page called HowToBootFromCD but realized that it would be better to name it HowtoBootFromCd so that it will link easy from the wiki, what is the best way to go about changing this?
[02:59] <Williamts99> Should I recreate the page and then just delete and link the older page, or is there someone that can rename it, and then link the older page, or delete it?
[03:00] <jjesse_> umm there is someone, but it might be just easier for you to clean it up
[03:02] <Williamts99> Understood, thank you.
[03:03] <LaserJock> Williamts99: well, I don't think it will really matter
[03:03] <LaserJock> I think HowToBootFromCD should link as easily as HowToBootFromCd
[03:05] <Williamts99> I thought that while creating the page, but I just tried to link to it from another page, but when I preview my changes it doesn't want to automatically create the link.
[03:06] <LaserJock> hmm, that's odd
[03:06] <Williamts99> But if I change the D in CD to a lowercase d it links just fine.
[03:06] <LaserJock> although I always use ["HowToBootFromCD"]  style anyway
[03:09] <Williamts99> Thank you, I am new to creating/editing pages and I didn't even think of that, that would be a lot easier to just link it that way, and it won't create 'clutter'
[03:10] <Williamts99> well the clutter of an extra page sitting around doing nothing :-)
[03:11] <nixternal> ahh, ya the old, 2 caps in a row kills wiki link
[03:13] <Williamts99> What do you think nixternal?  Should I recreate the page with a name that will be eaiser linked to in the future, or leave it the way it is and require the use of ["HowToBootFromCD"]  to link to it?
[03:14] <nixternal> leave it the way it is and just do ["HowToBootFromCD"]
[03:14] <Williamts99> Also, as my first page, what do you all think of it?
[03:16] <nixternal> how did you do thos bios screenies?
[03:17] <Williamts99> The easiest way is to use a camera to take pictures of them, or you can use the BIOS inside of vmware and do a printscreen
[03:17] <nixternal> i never noticed the bios pop up in vmware..i will have to look at that
[03:18] <nixternal> thats definitely a great start there
[03:18] <nixternal> hopefully people will add different bios setups in there and expand on it now
[03:18] <Williamts99> When you first start VMware, it is F2 to get into the 'bios'
[03:18] <nixternal> that is very important documentation that the Chicago LoCo has been working on creating as well
[03:18] <nixternal> cool..thanks for that pointer
[03:20] <Williamts99> No problem, I wonder if there is a way to simulate another BIOS, that would be great because that is about the best quality screenshots of the bios that you can get.
[03:22] <nixternal> i will see what i can do...i usually grab really good screenshots, however, i never use jpg, only png, that way you don't loose colors causing the pixelation and blur
[03:24] <jroes> have you guys ever been able to paste in VMWare btw?
[03:24] <nixternal> jroes: you need to install vmware tools
[03:25] <nixternal> like copy from outside of vmware, and paste into vmware?
[03:25] <nixternal> and vice versa?
[03:25] <jroes> yeah
[03:25] <jroes> I didn't know I had to install vmware tools, guess that would explain it :)
[03:25] <nixternal> ya, once vmware is up and running with the operating system, goto the VM tab and Install Vmware Tools
[03:25] <nixternal> at least thats how it is done with VMWare server
[03:26] <nixternal> i love making a preference change in the wiki..it only takes 4 minutes to save one checkbox
[03:27] <jroes> lol
[03:30] <Williamts99> Thanks for that tip, they do look a lot better as png, I just used that on CdIntegrityCheck and the png looks a lot better
[03:31] <nixternal> hehe, yes they do
[03:46] <LaserJock> Burgwork: are all the existing Tomboy plugins included in the Ubuntu package or are there others floating about?
[03:46] <LaserJock> I couldn't find any plugin info the their website
[03:57] <nixternal> wth..why are Tomboy Plugins .dll files?
[03:58] <LaserJock> because it's C# silly
[03:59] <LaserJock> or Mono or however you want to put it
[03:59] <nixternal> so is KDE, but there aren't any DLL files there
[03:59] <nixternal> mono maybe, since i know nothing about it
[03:59] <LaserJock> C# not C++
[03:59] <nixternal> just noticed that #
[05:49] <Madpilot> cool, help.ubuntu.com finally has a favicon
[07:27] <LaserJock> Burgwork: you still around?
[07:33] <Madpilot> LaserJock, he's usually out on Monday nights
[07:35] <LaserJock> silly man
[07:35] <LaserJock> I had a tomboy question for him
[07:38] <Madpilot> what sort of tomboy question?
[07:42] <LaserJock> well, I copies some of the .notes files from my other compute
[07:42] <LaserJock> but they don't show up
[07:42] <LaserJock> I wondered if that works
[07:58] <Madpilot> LaserJock, they don't show up when you drop them in ~/.tomboy?
[08:07] <LaserJock> Madpilot: no
[08:07] <Madpilot> odd
[08:07] <LaserJock> oh
[08:07] <LaserJock> I had to remove Tomboy from the panel and re add it
[08:08] <Madpilot> that seems like a bit of a hack to force Tomboy to refresh
[08:10] <LaserJock> well, I didn't see ano ption torefresh
[08:20] <LaserJock> ah, speak of the devil
[08:20] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: hmm?
[08:20] <Burgundavia> you guys dicussing me?
[08:21] <LaserJock> I was going to ask you a Tomboy question
[08:21] <Burgundavia> shoot
[08:21] <LaserJock> I got home and scp'ed my .notes from work to ~/.tomboy/
[08:21] <LaserJock> but they didn't immediatly show up
[08:21] <LaserJock> I had to remove tomboy from the panel and readd it
[08:21] <LaserJock> is there an easier way to refresh it?
[08:24] <Burgundavia> hmm, no idea
[08:25] <Burgundavia> there is some network tomboy stuff coming
[08:25] <LaserJock> well, previously I didn't use tomboy because I was using OS X a lot on my iMac
[08:25] <LaserJock> but I've got it dual booting with edgy right now
[08:26] <LaserJock> so I'm all Ubuntu all day long
[08:27] <Burgundavia> cool
[08:27] <LaserJock> it is nice
[08:28] <Burgundavia> I have never done what you have done, so I cannot tell you
[08:28] <LaserJock> I liked OS X fine, much better then Windows
[08:28] <LaserJock> but the shear amount of useful software in Ubuntu is great
[08:28] <LaserJock> and things do "Just Work"
[08:30] <Burgundavia> I don't know how I could not use tomboy
[08:31] <LaserJock> well, there are some similar apps for OS X
[08:31] <LaserJock> but none as simple and easy to use
[08:33] <Burgundavia> f-spot is another app very much liek that
[08:35] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:35] <LaserJock> I tried it not long ago
[08:35] <LaserJock> I used it to show my inlaws pics over the weekend
[08:38] <Burgundavia> ok, this new epiphany is crashing for me constantly
[08:38] <Burgundavia> I suspect the new Firefox
[08:40] <LaserJock> new as in?
[08:42] <Burgundavia> edgy new, 2.0
[08:46] <LaserJock> does it happen on particular sites?
[09:44] <Burgundavia> mdke: morning
[09:44] <Burgundavia> sleepy time for me
[09:44] <mdke> good night
[09:45] <jsgotangco> heh
[09:54] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: the wiki lifecycle page is a good start still
[09:54] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:54] <Burgundavia> please flesh out further
[09:54] <Burgundavia> I want to move some point this week
[09:55] <jsgotangco> imho a real annoucement should at least have a webpage saying what to do next
[09:55] <jsgotangco> if you're in the EOL loop
[09:55] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:55] <LaserJock> lay down and die
[09:56] <LaserJock> it's the end of the road
[09:56] <Burgundavia> well, night
[09:56] <Burgundavia> truly this time
[10:01] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: how's it going?
[10:02] <LaserJock> bah, it's going I suppose
[10:02] <jsgotangco> ok i'll just let you bee
[10:03] <LaserJock> heh
[10:04] <LaserJock> it's no problem
[10:04] <LaserJock> but lots of deadlines, if you know what I mean
[10:06] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: how are you doing?
[10:07] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: pretty busy myself at new work too, but its the start of the holiday so i have 4 days off starting tomorrow and will be catching up on virtual work
[06:15] <nixternal> http://www.debianadmin.com/ubuntu-edgy-upgrade-common-problems-with-solutions.html
[06:16] <nixternal> Jonathan Carter suggested we do something similar in a blog post ^^ and ideas?
[09:16] <mdke> nixternal: you could add things to the current documentation
[09:18] <nixternal> current wiki docs is what i was going to attack..i wrote the author and email asking permission to utilize his responses
[09:21] <mdke> sounds good
[10:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69576 in ubuntu-docs "Wrong alignment and bidi problems in Hebrew system help" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69576


[09:42] <vip> moin
[12:52] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
 Why does Plasma have a default of letting games turn off compositing?