[16:06] <tdaitx> hi there! could someone please set the priority of LP: #1637239 to whishlist?
[16:06] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1637239 in ncurses (Ubuntu) "Please merge ncurses 6.0+20160917-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637239
[16:07] <tdaitx> s/priority/importance/
[16:12] <rbasak> tdaitx: done, and I added an update-software-version tag.
[16:13] <tdaitx> rbasak, thanks! I was trying to figure out which tag I had to add, note taken =)


[07:13] <Unit193> jrgifford: You know launchpad recipes?
[07:15] <yano> the codes? you've got the codes?
[07:25] <Unit193> Heh, seems I also made an oopsie. :P
[07:34] <Unit193> Always remember to put stuff in +junk...
[12:37]  * canthus13 yawns.
[12:58] <jrgifford> Unit193, launchpad recipes? nah
[12:58] <jrgifford> i like to pretend I know them though
[13:18] <Unit193> Heh, I saw one that seems to not be built right.
[17:38]  * canthus13 nods.
[17:38] <canthus13> .
[17:38] <Unit193> Glad you agree with me.
[18:18] <thafreak> what's these launchpad recipes you speak of
[18:18] <canthus13> Unit193: Actually, I was just in the wrong chan. :/
[18:18] <Unit193> I figured.
[18:19] <canthus13> thafreak: They're for half-baked ideas like Unity.
[18:19] <Unit193> thafreak: https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesgifford/+recipe/pianobar-daily
[18:23] <thafreak> hows it different than like a ppa?
[18:24] <Unit193> That's the script that autobuilds it and places it in the PPA.
[18:27] <thafreak> gotcha
[18:28] <Unit193> On another note: You think I know?
[21:17] <jrgifford> i am totally incapable of lp recipes
[21:17] <jrgifford> it is *completely* different from everything else i've seen.
[21:18] <jrgifford> because its not a shell script, but its not *not* a shell sccript.
[21:18] <Unit193> Yep, I saw the build fail logs. ;)
[21:18] <jrgifford> that thing still running? :P
[21:22] <jrgifford> ok, changed to on request instead of daily.
[21:23] <Unit193> Yep, was looking for pianobar stuff, but foundout that you need the debian build scripts in your code.
[21:28] <jrgifford> and ignorant me doesn't really know how to do that. ;)
[21:33] <Unit193> I am also not a packager.


[06:26] <dholbach> good morning
[10:29] <benunter> ouais
[14:27] <dholbach> mhall119, hangout set up for later on and informed ubuntu-phone@ as well
[14:34] <mhall119> thanks dholbach
[14:36] <mhall119> dholbach: has bzoltan confirmed that he'll be there?
[14:36] <dholbach> mhall119, not on google calendar, but on IRC, when I asked him on Friday
[16:01] <mhall119> o/
[16:01] <beuno> o/
[16:03] <beuno> #buymhall119agoodheadset on twitter
[16:03]  * dholbach hugs beuno
[16:04] <dholbach> let's use http://pad.ubuntu.com/Ci248KWxmC for notes
[16:04] <mhall119> beuno: it's not the headset, it's the new hangout plugin
[16:04] <lool> v
[16:04] <mhall119> it sometimes ignores the fact that I'm muted
[16:04] <lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Click/Frameworks/UpdateProcess
[16:04] <mhall119> and carries sound across anyway
[16:07] <dholbach> any questions or suggestions from our audience?
[16:14] <DeV_noob> hello
[16:14] <mhall119> hi DeV_noob
[16:15] <DeV_noob> can i join this discussion?
[16:15] <DeV_noob> i got webcam already
[16:15] <DeV_noob> ?
[16:18] <nik90> QUESTION: For the clock app, we want to able to support RTM (14.10 framework) while at the same target the new upcoming frameworks 15.04. How can I do that without having multiple click package versions of the same app in the store? The 14.10 framework version will obviously only get bug fixes like SRUs while the the 15.04 framework will get new features
[16:18] <nik90> etc. This is not beta channel that I am referring to.
[16:18] <dholbach> DeV_noob, we're a bunch of people already ... could you let me know what your particular interest in the discussion is?
[16:20] <DeV_noob> ubuntu phone OS's wallpaer
[16:21] <mhall119> DeV_noob: is it related to the frameworks dicussion?
[16:21] <popey> nik90: beuno you will want to add new features before 15.04 is final though, won't you?
[16:21] <mhall119> this is a very targeted discussion, we want to stay on topic
[16:21] <dholbach> DeV_noob, I'm afraid that's not on our agenda - we're talking about the technical structure of the app framework right now
[16:21] <DeV_noob> hmm
[16:21] <popey> so you're going to want to update to 15.04 features in the clock app before 15.04 is final enough for those shipped devices
[16:21] <dholbach> DeV_noob, you could mail<EMAIL_ADDRESS>about your request though
[16:21] <popey> so people wont have 15.04 on their shipped devices, because it's not ready yet
[16:22] <popey> but nik90 wants to target that new shiny, and that breaks people on 14.10
[16:22] <mhall119> popey: nik90: I think the current answer to that is to have separate apps in the store
[16:22] <mhall119> like we do now for clock and clock-reboot
[16:22] <popey> gah
[16:22] <popey> mess
[16:22] <beuno> or, future beta channel
[16:22] <mhall119> until beta support is in the store
[16:23] <mhall119> ^^
[16:23] <popey> that doesnt scale
[16:24] <nik90> I think the beta channel is the answer then
[16:24] <popey> right
[16:25] <popey> its not that "they can't use the features" it's that you ship an app which is actively _broken_ for people on 14.10
[16:25] <popey> (in this use case)
[16:25] <popey> i.e. won't start or some feature is broken
[16:25] <beuno> popey, you can't, becuause 14.10 won't see 15.04, right?
[16:26] <beuno> *you can't break
[16:26] <mhall119> popey: you would only be able to download an app if you have the frameworks it requires
[16:26] <popey> ok, but then anyone on 14.10 will no longer even _see_ the app in the store, it'll be uninstallable.
[16:26] <popey> which for a clock is a bit of a pain
[16:27] <beuno> popey, we could still show them the last version for that framework
[16:27] <beuno> we need to think about the ramifications
[16:27] <popey> yeah.
[16:27] <beuno> and yes
[16:27] <beuno> ultimately
[16:27] <popey> there neds to be a "last known good"
[16:27] <beuno> I don't think the 15.04 version should be in the store
[16:27] <beuno> other than the beta channel
[16:27] <beuno> I think developers need to care about the current framework
[16:27] <beuno> and put all the love there
[16:28] <DeV_noob> i think we should make a separate framework for kiosk framework
[16:28] <beuno> experiment with the future, but focus on what's currently on all devices
[16:29] <DeV_noob> mean kiosk computers
[16:30] <lool> click has lists of base versions of frameworks, but the frameworks are actually listed in the ubuntu-touch meta package as files
[16:30] <lool> and its dependencies pull in the content of frameworks
[16:31] <DeV_noob> that can make ubuntu go everywhere.. restaurants, malls, billing machines... all digital environments should benefit equal stability from ubuntu, isn't it?
[16:32] <mhall119> DeV_noob: that's possible already, but kind of tangential to this discussion
[16:32] <mhall119> the topic of this call is *how* we manage these different frameworks
[16:54] <dholbach> EVERYONE: sorry, my mic is auto-increasing the volume right now up to 11, so I can't really unmute myself
[16:54] <dholbach> we have 6 minutes left
[16:54] <dholbach> can we get to work items soon?
[16:56] <dholbach_> ... like figuring out from all api data consumers which data they need exactly
[16:56] <dholbach_> mhall119, lool: ^
[16:57] <mhall119> dholbach_: I'll bring it up
[16:58] <dholbach> thanks
[17:03] <dholbach> all right - thanks a lot everyone
[17:04] <dholbach> mhall119, sorry about and thanks for helping out
[17:04] <dholbach> for some reason the mic recording levels went up on their own all the time :-/
[17:04] <mhall119> no worries
[17:04] <dholbach> all rightie
[17:05] <dholbach> I'll drop everyone and email and we can have a follow up session - maybe it'll help if we write the agenda together after everyone did a little bit of research
[17:05] <dholbach> so we know what particularly to dive into next time
[17:06] <dholbach> I'm off, see you all tomorrow *hugs*
[17:06] <JamesTait> dholbach, o/
[17:19] <pleia2> jose: AirBot went a bit sideways, restarted and loaded classbot script, might want to poke and confirm all is well


[01:24] <ko2> hi
[01:25] <ko2> Who are there?
[02:33] <pmatulis> what?
[11:55] <lordievader> Good afternoon.
[12:43] <Razva> good afternoon
[12:57] <lordievader> o/
[13:04] <shredding> Where can i learn about the stuff in ifconfig?
[13:04] <shredding> E.g. what is utun, what is ethernet etc.
[13:05] <ikonia> different device file types, you may want to look at the bridge-utils documentation
[13:07] <shredding> ikonia: Is there a place that generally gives an introduction in terms and concepts?
[13:07] <shredding> sth like https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/an-introduction-to-dns-terminology-components-and-concepts for dns
[13:07] <ikonia> shredding: no idea
[13:08] <shredding> ok
[14:56] <jayjo> How can I list all processes that are running? when I run top some PIDs come in an out of the list, but they aren't there constantly
[14:57] <Pici> ps aux
[14:57] <jayjo> for example mysqld will show up running over 3 GB but then dissapear
[14:57] <hateball> "ps auxww" shows you even more info, if that is desired
[14:57] <Pici> jayjo: you can also scroll in top, but I find htop much easier to use.
[15:04] <jayjo> ps aux and top seem to be showing me different things. top says I have 8GB memory (and I actually don't know how much I have, can I find tha from the command line... I dont have access to the AWS dashboard) but in ps aux it says the same memory is being consumed but it is 10% of memory
[15:04] <jayjo> under %MEM
[15:04] <Pici> See free -m
[15:05] <jayjo> Pici: these are MBs?
[15:05] <Pici> Yes.
[15:05] <Pici> The -m means MB
[15:05] <jayjo> ah OK, so the %MEM is not accurate I think in ps aux
[15:15] <jamespage> ddellav, coreycb: any reason where holding back on the swift 2.6.0 upload?
[15:16] <coreycb> jamespage, nope not that I know of
[15:16] <jamespage> coreycb, let me take a look - I'll sponsor it...
[15:16] <coreycb> jamespage, thanks
[15:32] <jamespage> coreycb, I'll try to unpick the python-django-compressor merge I've had on my list for a while now today as well but might be tomorrow
[15:33] <coreycb> jamespage, ok
[15:33] <coreycb> jamespage, I've started on the b3 core packages, and so far just blocked on the new paramiko release
[15:34] <jamespage> coreycb, urgh
[15:34] <coreycb> jamespage, which seems fairly important: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268197/
[15:46] <ws2k3> im trying to install ubuntu 12.04 but at downloading installer component i just get a purple screen and then nothing happens what could this be
[15:47] <jamespage> coreycb, ~ well yes it important but generally rather than openstack specifically
[15:57] <ws2k3> im trying to install ubuntu 12.04 but at downloading installer component i just get a purple screen and then nothing happens what could this be
[15:59] <ws2k3> i also tryed other mirrors but all mirrors seems to have this issue
[16:59] <xnox> rbasak, hello =) would you like to be on the Developer Membership Board?
[16:59] <xnox> jamespage, hello =) would you like to be on the Developer Membership Board?
[16:59] <jamespage> xnox, +1 on rbasak on the DMB
[17:00] <xnox> Daviey, hello =) would you like to be on the Developer Membership Board?
[17:00] <jamespage> xnox, lol
[17:00] <xnox> jamespage, excellent. Do you have rbasak's gpg key to sign and send in nomination? =)
[17:01] <jamespage> xnox, yes
[17:01] <jamespage> coreycb, hey - looking a python-django-compressor - will need a MIR for three new packages to go to 2.0
[17:01] <jamespage> two are pull-outs of existing vendored code in 1.6
[17:02] <jamespage> and the other is new
[17:05] <coreycb> ddellav, take a look at python-pika-pool for an example of running tests as autopkgtests
[17:07] <Logos01> Howdy, folks. So I have a bit of a confusion that maybe someone here could help me work out...  why is it that there is so little interest in pulp in the .deb world?
[17:07] <coreycb> jamespage, need a hand with those MIRs?
[17:07] <Logos01> I mean, it's been over two years since the basic framework for .deb support was published to the pulp github, and it's *still* nonfunctional.
[17:07] <jamespage> coreycb, I'll need a ffe first - you focus on the rest of the stuff...
[17:07] <coreycb> jamespage, ok
[17:11] <rbasak> What's pulp?
[17:11] <Logos01> Pulp is a repository synchronization/publication engine
[17:11] <rbasak> Why does the .deb world need this?
[17:11] <Logos01> http://www.pulpproject.org/
[17:12] <Logos01> rbasak: Well for one it would enable the use of products like Katello
[17:12] <rbasak> What's Katello? Why does the .deb world need that?
[17:13] <Logos01> It is a significant gain over apt-mirror in that it enables administrators to create repositories interanally and associate them with specific servers in order to more readily manage what packages are accessible to what servers (up to and including recency of mirror, to enable package lifecycles for promotion paths from nonprod to prod, etc., etc..)
[17:14] <Logos01> Katello is the opensource upstream of the Red Hat Network Satellite (version 6.x)  ( http://www.katello.org/ )
[17:14] <Logos01> It ... does a great deal of things, including bundling foreman, puppet, pulp, and candlepin
[17:14] <Logos01> Gives you recency, inventorying, ownership tracking, config management, etc., in a bundled manner.
[17:15] <rbasak> I don't see a benefit here. You need to frame this in terms of the benefits it brings, not in terms of other things whose benefit you have also not explained.
[17:15] <Logos01> O_o
[17:16] <rbasak> IM(personal)HO, apt repositories outside the distro are fundamentally broken anyway. PPAs are about as far as they'll stretch.
[17:16] <rbasak> apt wasn't designed for this, and it shows.
[17:16] <rbasak> I suspect RPMs are the same.
[17:16] <Logos01> rbasak: You can do PPAs as well with this, but it's primary function is in handling the core distro channels.
[17:16] <Logos01> It's a repository mirroring engine.
[17:17] <jamespage> coreycb, for reference:
[17:17] <jamespage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-django-compressor/+bug/1554134
[17:17] <Logos01> It lets you do things like expose the current packageset to your dev environment, a week old version of that to your acceptance/staging/testing environments, and a month old to your production
[17:18] <rbasak> That sounds handy.
[17:18] <Logos01> So you can just let packages autoupgrade and still have that assurance of burn-in on all packages.
[17:18] <Logos01> This is what I mean by "recency"
[17:18] <rbasak> Make it do that easily for Ubuntu users and perhaps they'll take it up.
[17:18] <Logos01> It *ALSO* lets you do things like track which DSAs (or the Ubuntu equivalent) are applicable to which of your servers.
[17:18] <Logos01> rbasak: ... That's exactly what I'm asking about.
[17:18] <rbasak> Add a million layers of abstraction in the middle, and I suspect that nobody will bother.
[17:19] <Logos01> Why isn't this there already? It just needs plugin development.
[17:19] <Logos01> Apparently the answer is nobody in the .deb world has heard of it. Which seems surreal to me.
[17:19] <rbasak> Someone needs to champion it for Ubuntu I guess.
[17:19] <Logos01> You're familiar with Ubuntu Landscape?
[17:19] <rbasak> Yes.
[17:19] <coreycb> jamespage, thanks
[17:19] <Logos01> Katello is a free and opensource "competitor" in a sense to it.
[17:20] <Logos01> (You can also use pulp for pip, cpan, gems, or puppetforge)
[17:20] <rbasak> So be competitive :)
[17:20] <Logos01> I'm not a developer.
[17:20] <rbasak> Ah.
[17:20] <Logos01> I'm just trying to understand why it seems like nobody in the .deb world seems to give a crap about it.
[17:20] <rbasak> What you're really asking is why nobody is spending money on developing it.
[17:20] <Logos01> I've been asking this for years. I never get a good answer beyond "I've never heard of it"
[17:20] <Logos01> Which is just ... bizarre.
[17:21] <rbasak> There's a big difference between those questions.
[17:21] <rbasak> Nobody has heard of it because nobody else is spending resources on developing it for this world.
[17:21] <rbasak> Simple answer I think.
[17:22]  * Logos01 shrugs
[17:22] <Logos01> It's not even like it would take a great deal of manhours to do.
[17:22] <Logos01> https://github.com/pulp/pulp_deb
[17:22] <rbasak> Give somebody a good reason to spend those manhours, and perhaps they will.
[17:24] <Logos01> That is ... a surreal answer, to me.
[17:24] <rbasak> That is exactly how the Free Software ecosystem works. I don't understand why it's surreal.
[17:25] <Logos01> Because the benefits of the thing are rather extensive; knowledge of the project in and of itself should comprise sufficient reason for at least *someone* to want to make that development.
[17:25] <Logos01> Especially considering it is developing a plugin, not overhauling the engine itself, that is all that's called for.
[17:25] <rbasak> That's not how it works.
[17:25] <Logos01> And yet no matter how many times I've brought this up over the years nobody has ever seemed to ever say anything other than "Why should we care?"
[17:26] <Logos01> And I can explain and reexplain the benefits of having repository management and all the ancillary benefits therein and it just doesn't sink in.
[17:26] <rbasak> You can wish for developers to magically appear all you want. Actually everyone only does stuff because of some reason to motivate them. This applies to everything, not just this project.
[17:28] <Logos01> There's a difference between wishing for something to have happened, and trying to understand why there seems to be significant resistance to something that has obvious and imminent gains for the community.
[17:28] <Logos01> The latter is what I'm trying to figure out here.
[17:28] <rbasak> I don't see any resistance.
[17:28] <rbasak> You say resistance, I say lack of motivation.
[17:29] <Logos01> That is; not merely, "Why hasn't someone done what *I* want" but rather "Why has no one done this despite how painfully obvious the benefits of it are?"
[17:29] <Logos01> And to be clear; they *are*
[17:29] <Logos01> Which is why I find answers like yours surreal.
[17:29] <Logos01> Because this is far from the first time I've brough this topic up.
[17:29] <rbasak> I suspect most people in a position to need this find it easier to just pay for Landscape.
[17:29] <Logos01> Yet that is *always* the answer: "Why should we care?" "Do it yourself", etc..
[17:30] <rbasak> s/need/develop/ maybe.
[17:30] <rbasak> Again, that's how the ecosystem works.
[17:30] <Logos01> Or, more commonly, as you did, "Never heard of it"
[17:30] <Logos01> And it's that last part that is the most perplexing.
[17:31] <Logos01> Oh well.
[17:31] <Logos01> It seems the answer hasn't changed from the last dozen times I've asked this question (in here, no less)
[17:31] <Logos01> Thanks for your time.
[17:31]  * Logos01 walks away in utter astonishment
[17:31] <rbasak> That's because the motivation for the existence of the Free Software ecosystem hasn't changed, either.
[17:32] <rbasak> How can you still be astonished, if others have given you the same answer previously?
[17:32] <nacc> well, it seems like pulp explicitly lists only RH-family distros, no? and the diagram is all yum ... http://www.pulpproject.org/
[17:32] <jamespage> matsubara, rbasak: did you guys make progress on the dlm merge from debian?
[17:32] <nacc> or is that the point of this discussion?
[17:33] <rbasak> jamespage: I don't recall any movement on that.
[17:33] <rbasak> jgrimm: do you know the status of the dlm merge?
[17:33] <nacc> "There is also a community-contributed plugin for Debian packages."
[17:33] <nacc> Logos01: --^ ?
[17:33] <nacc> Logos01: why isn't that "good enough"?
[17:34] <Logos01> nacc: It's a skeleton that is non-functional and has been in that state since it was first created over two years ago.
[17:34] <Logos01> It wouldn't take much work to finalize but nobody in the .deb world ever seems to care.
[17:35] <rbasak> It sounds to me that it's a RH world product that claims to be "cross platform" in order to make it more appealing to users to lock themselves in, because in reality they're only paying lip service to that claimed portability.
[17:35] <nacc> Logos01: i have to agree with rbasak; what you've described above is a generic argument for why pulp is good. But not why I should care to contribute. And tbh, it doesn't solve a gap for me, as a user. The gap seems to be deploying pulp in a place that wants to host Debian
[17:35] <nacc> or Ubuntu
[17:36] <Logos01> nacc: I'm not agitating for it to be done.
[17:36] <Logos01> I'm not *asking* for it to be done.
[17:36] <Logos01> I'm trying to understand why nobody in the .deb world already *wants* it to be done.
[17:38] <nacc> Logos01: why would anyone in the .deb world particularly care to make a RH/rpm-based product integrate with deb-based? why is it so much better than what already exists? (and if it is, i think it would naturally be supplanting it in the ecosystem ... the best tools, ime, exist & thrive in FOSS)
[17:39] <jamespage> rbasak, I'll deal with it - clearing my merge backlog...
[17:39] <Logos01> nacc: The closest analogue to it is apt-mirror, and pulp is a significant gain over that in terms of the raw functionality it provides, to the point where I don't even know where to begin to describe how much so this is true.
[17:40] <Logos01> And you're asking exactly the question I'm asking with the latter parts there. Which is why I am constantly amazed by the lack of penetration or care/concern it has here.
[17:40] <rbasak> The people who might want that functionality probably use Landscape. So you need to be comparing against Landscape, not apt-mirror.
[17:40] <Logos01> rbasak: Pulp is best compared against apt-mirror.
[17:41] <Logos01> Katello, which uses pulp as a component, is what is best compared against Landscape.
[17:41] <rbasak> If you say so. I doubt users care.
[17:41] <Logos01> You can use Pulp without anything else. Many do.
[17:42] <Logos01> Also, and this is a major consideration point; Individuals who want to learn how to manage the closed-source product from Red Hat (RHN Satellite) can deploy their own Katello instances in the lab, and take exactly those skills across without having to license anything.
[17:42] <Logos01> Makes for a much easier entry path into competence.
[17:44] <rattking> I use aptly snapshots to do what sounds like the same things
[17:44] <rattking> same things being alpha/beta/prod snapshots on a local mirror plus personal repos
[17:47] <Logos01> rattking: From the description (on the page as well) it seems very similar, yes.
[18:55] <nacc> jamespage: i just noticed something else about commons-vfs that I missed before, I apologize! there's a bindep from libcommons-vfs-java-doc -> libcommons-net-java-doc but the latter is in universe. It looks like historically (it hasn't been packaged in ubuntu since oneiric?) it was in main. Should it be MIR'd? the package does build & test successfully without either of libjackrabbit or
[18:55] <nacc> libcommons-net-java-doc, but i'm guessing maybe some documentation linking won't work?
[19:45] <jancoow> Hi. Does someone know a tutorial (that works) for running at least 1 application over a vpn, but the rest of the server over the normal ethernet connection
[20:17] <lordievader> jancoow: VPN's usually work on a basis of routes, not applications.
[20:24] <bekks> jancoow: lordievader: https://schnouki.net//schnouki.net/posts/2014/12/12/openvpn-for-a-single-application-on-linux/
[20:25] <lordievader> bekks: 'That page doesn't exist!'?
[20:26] <lordievader> Ah, double schnouki.net
[20:26] <bekks> indeed - no clue how I copied that :D
[20:27] <lordievader> This forces a program to use a different default gateway?
[20:27] <bekks> Yes. Which basically what a VPN does, as well.
[20:27] <jancoow> well i tried that
[20:28] <jancoow> the virtual interface is kinda working but it lost connection after x seconds
[20:28] <jancoow> like i could ping , but when i try 10 seconds later: nope no connection
[20:28] <lordievader> Nice though.
[20:28] <jancoow> (and that's without vpn running)
[20:28] <lordievader> jancoow: So, the underlying network connection has problems?
[20:29] <bekks> jancoow: that solution requires a vpn.
[20:31] <jancoow> bekks: i also tried a vpn. If i do it in "the first 10 seconds" the vpn could communicate with the vpn server. But this also timed out after 15 seconds or so
[20:31] <jancoow> lordievader: i do think so!
[20:32] <jancoow> i simply runned this https://gist.github.com/Schnouki/fd171bcb2d8c556e8fdf with ""up"
[20:32] <jancoow> and changed the fping to ping (because i doesn't have fping installed) :)
[20:33] <jancoow> and eventually started openvpn (with another config, ofcourse)
[20:33] <lordievader> jancoow: So fix your network first ;)
[20:33] <jancoow> lordievader: well the normal ethernet connection is just fine (the one on eth0)
[20:34] <lordievader> < jancoow> lordievader: i do think so! <- /me is confused
[20:34] <jancoow> wut ;p
[20:35] <lordievader> I asked if the underlaying network connection has problems, you said yes. And later you said it didn't.
[20:36] <jancoow> lordievader: oh wel. The "Yes" was more on the underlaying network connections UNDER the vpn :). So actually the bridge between the virtual interface and the realinterface
[20:36] <lordievader> Ah, the regular network is fine?
[20:37] <jancoow> yes!
[20:37] <jancoow> server is already up for 200 days and never had problems :)
[20:39] <lordievader> Ah, I misunderstood. So after some time the vpn connection, and only the vpn connection, dies?
[20:40] <jancoow> not only the vpn connection. Even when i doesn't start the vpn on it, and i'm trying to use ping it doesnt work
[20:41] <lordievader> jancoow: Was the "ip netns exec frootvpn ping www.google.com" from the guide set?
[20:41] <jancoow> yes
[20:41] <jancoow> this is for example the output after i imdetialy run the script: https://jancokock.me/f/b566a
[20:42] <lordievader> Does ping work after removing that setting?
[20:42] <jancoow> how can i test that without running that command?
[20:43] <bekks> You cant. :)
[20:43] <lordievader> You cant remove those settings?
[20:44] <jancoow> well it isn't a setting, right? It exec's a program, and that programm is ping
[20:44] <bekks> No. The exec program is frootvpn
[20:44] <bekks> and that executes ping.
[20:44] <jancoow> ah!
[20:45]  * lordievader fears his understanding of the Linux network stack is too little
[20:45] <bekks> actually that frootvpn is a network namespace which you execute ping in.
[20:46] <bekks> So it is vital to use "ip netns frootvpn ..."
[20:46] <jancoow> but why does it stops working after some seconds :/
[20:46] <jancoow> that's the question ;
[20:46] <jancoow> ;p
[20:47] <jancoow> do you know if there are somewhere logs ??
[20:47] <bekks> Look at the logs? :)
[20:47] <jancoow> ?*
[20:47] <bekks> Logs are in /var/log/ e.g.
[20:47] <jancoow> yeah
[20:48] <jancoow> there are a lot of logs there :D
[20:48] <bekks> Thats why the directory is names /var/log :P
[20:48] <jancoow> the only thing i can see in dmesg is [16873278.337995] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): vpn0: link is not ready
[20:48] <jancoow> [16873278.360117] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_CHANGE): vpn0: link becomes ready
[21:03] <jancoow> bekks: any idea? :D
[21:29] <jancoow> btw
[21:29] <jancoow> is it bad that i didn't rebooted my server for already 200 days
[21:30] <genii> If you did security updates in that time and didn't reboot yet, then yes
[21:30] <jancoow> just regual updates in apt update/upgrade
[21:31] <tomreyn> during the past 200 days there was the glic patch, which suggests you should reboot
[21:33] <tomreyn> (not all ubuntu versions / platforms were affected by it, though). while i have not checked, it is somewhat likely that kernel security patches were also made available during this time. which, unless you use live kerbel patching, would also requiore a reboot to apply.
[21:33] <tomreyn> s/ kerbal / kernel /
[21:33] <jancoow> ubuntu doesn't have the ability for live kernal patching right?
[21:34] <jancoow> only redhat right?
[21:34] <tomreyn> linux has the ability
[21:34] <tomreyn> in some versions or other
[21:37] <genii> Ubuntu does, but it gets convoluted
[21:37] <genii> !info ksplice
[21:38] <jancoow> and how safe is it to do?
[21:38] <jancoow> or is it stable
[21:39] <genii> ksplice itself is stable, but the updates then work differently than normal
[22:01] <coreycb> ddellav, can you update the (build-)dependencies for heat?
[22:01] <coreycb> ddellav, looks ok other than that
[22:01] <ddellav> coreycb ok
[22:06] <Logos01> jancoow: If you're worried about live kernel patching then you might want to look into LXD
[22:06] <Logos01> And then containerize all of your services.
[22:06] <Logos01> Probably a safer/easier path
[22:35] <jancoow> i'm not woried
[22:35] <jancoow> just asking :)
[22:35] <jancoow> still didn't fix my vpn
[22:50] <ChibaPet> Hey all. If this is not yet on-topic I'll go elsewhere, but Xenial installs with the server ISO that set up LUKS root seem to all time out on shutdown, as systemd can't dispense with the LUKS container or the MD-RAID (in some cases) underneath it. Is there a known workaround
[22:50] <ChibaPet> ?
[22:59] <Jukse> Hello! i have a question!
[23:22] <ChibaPet> !ask
[23:25] <sarnold> ChibaPet: probably best to file a bug against systemd, sounds like something that might require attention from someone in foundations
[23:26] <ChibaPet> sarnold: Yeah, I suspect that's the thing to do. I'll also read a bit about this shutdown-initrd concept.
[23:26] <ChibaPet> I wish I'd noticed this sooner, as we're somewhat close to release.
[23:27] <ChibaPet> Anyway, commuting, and I'll file a bug report when I am connected via wires again.
[23:27] <sarnold> yeah, I'm surprised just how soon we are..
[23:27] <sarnold> mm wires


[01:38] <mup> PR operator#871 closed: Update minimum Python version from 3.5 to 3.8 <Created by benhoyt> <Merged by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/871>
[02:25] <mup> PR operator#866 closed: fix pebble idempotency behavior in testing <Created by yanksyoon> <Closed by yanksyoon> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/866>
[02:32] <mup> PR operator#876 opened: add pebble idempotency behavior <Created by yanksyoon> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/876>
[03:54] <mup> PR operator#876 closed: add pebble idempotency behavior <Created by yanksyoon> <Merged by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/876>


[03:55] <wallyworld> kelvinliu: trvial PR - we've had an outage on 2.7 due to  a nil pointer https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11823
[04:10] <kelvinliu> wallyworld:  just went to get some food, looking now
[06:13] <wallyworld> kelvinliu: trivial forward port of the previous 2.7 fix https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11825
[06:14] <kelvinliu> approved
[06:14] <wallyworld> ty
[06:14] <kelvinliu> np
[08:32] <manadart_> achilleasa stickupkid: need a tick on https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11820
[08:33] <stickupkid> fyi: I never think empty is good for a unknown value https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11820/files#diff-78b22e8095fbb037f2aea902e906cfb5R41
[08:45] <achilleasa> stickupkid: it's probably the same if you are using iota. I've also seen the empty value for enum-like definitions being unexported and only used in the package for sanity checking
[08:48] <stickupkid> I just think it should be a value
[08:48] <stickupkid> error if it's not
[08:49] <achilleasa> unknown is a value ;-)
[08:49] <stickupkid> "" isn't ;p
[08:49] <achilleasa> technically, it's a typed empty value :D
[08:49] <stickupkid> ha
[10:27] <stickupkid> achilleasa, this fixes the 2.8 ci integration failures https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11826
[10:28] <achilleasa> stickupkid: looking
[14:54] <achilleasa> Can I get a CR and QA on the manual cleanup script backport? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11827?
[15:07] <achilleasa> and a cherry-pick for 2.8 https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11828
[15:30] <achilleasa> manadart_: I think I found a (hacky) workaround for getting the info we need for the subnets on bionic; as the controller instance will be already up, we can query its state (that api works on bionic) and extrapolate the subnet data. I think we won't be able to figure out the parent bridge though which is probably fine I guess
[19:32] <petevg> hml: I'm working on QA for https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11822, btw.
[19:33] <hml> petevg: ty
[19:33] <petevg> np!


[18:18] <MarkDude> akk, you ok with your pics from release party being included in Fedora Foundations video?
[18:19] <akk> Sure, MarkDude
[18:19] <MarkDude> I know D is ok with it, and assume you are also
[18:19] <MarkDude> :)
[18:19] <MarkDude> Cool
[18:19] <MarkDude> I had another question
[18:20] <MarkDude> WHAT would be the most helpful thing for GIMP, as far as progressing the project?
[18:20] <MarkDude> Volunteers?
[18:20] <MarkDude> I see GIMP as one of the last great needs of FOSS
[18:20] <akk> It needs volunteers -- but volunteering is tricky. As with a lot of projects, there are lots of rules about what can/can't be done
[18:20] <akk> and who can get involved where
[18:21] <akk> (much like ubuntu or any big project).
[18:21] <MarkDude> IS there any effort from say Ubuntu and Fedora and others?
[18:21] <akk> effort from the distros to contribute to gimp? No.
[18:21] <MarkDude> I mean, most Distros should see GIMP as needed to be helped
[18:22] <MarkDude> Not to be evil, but I have been using CS5
[18:22] <akk> I get the impression ubuntu sees gimp as sort of an annoyance (dropping it from the release). Not sure about fedora.
[18:22] <MarkDude> The program is great (and evil)
[18:22] <MarkDude> Well Fedora could get behind it more
[18:23] <pleia2> it's a huge annoyance to new uses who go to support forums to complain about how hard it is to use
[18:23] <MarkDude> I figure Ubuntu could get into an easier to use, more streamlined version
[18:23] <pleia2> s/uses/users
[18:23] <pleia2> "normal" people want MS Paint, not Photoshop :\
[18:23] <akk> Unfortunately, anything that involves changing the UI in any way is a huge pile of worms and it's not likely someone new to the project would change anything.
[18:24] <akk> True enough, pleia2 -- gimp (and PS too) are advanced tools, and very hard for a beginner to use.
[18:25] <akk> MarkDude: This would actually be a relatively good time for new developers to get involved with gimp.
[18:25] <akk> MarkDude: For a long time the project was kind of hostile, but most of that element has moved on.
[18:26] <akk> (It's still intimidating and full of rules, not something I'd recommend to a newbie, but an experienced dev could get involved without getting insulted or abused much.)
[18:29] <MarkDude> Cool
[18:30]  * MarkDude sees this as sumthin' that goes beyond any one Distro
[18:30] <MarkDude> pleia2, normal folks want sumthin like maint.net
[18:30] <MarkDude> MS paint is horrible
[18:31] <MarkDude> I think they allow jpgs now, but defaults to bmp
[18:31] <MarkDude> paint.net
[18:31] <akk> I've been hearing a lot about mypaint, keep meaning to try it.
[18:31] <akk> It's apparently pretty easy to get started with.
[18:31] <MarkDude> the underlying structure and parts of GIMP could be used for sumthin slightly powerful
[18:32] <MarkDude> People could get into simple *actions* onb GIMP
[18:32] <MarkDude> if they had them
[18:32] <MarkDude> Filters where you hit PLAY, and then fine tune
[18:33] <akk> That will supposedly become easier as gegl becomes more integrated
[18:33] <akk> though someone already made a plug-in even without gegl that does that
[18:33] <akk> but apparently it requires a lot of maintenance, because its list of actions isn't automatically generated from the gimp src.
[18:34] <akk> That's another thing I've been wanting to look into.
[18:34] <MarkDude> Ok, thats why I asked you
[18:35] <akk> You can already write scripts (and could easily make a gui for it) to play gegl actions ... but mentally mapping gimp operations to gegl actions isn't something people quite grok yet (including me, must remedy that soon).
[18:35] <akk> I expect I'll be learning a lot more about that over the next 6 months (3rd edition probably actually happening!)
[18:35] <akk> and giving talks on gegl scripting next year.
[18:39] <MarkDude> Ok, so high on the list would be mapping *or creating represntation * of gegl?
[18:39] <MarkDude> To help see it, then the loose ends would more likely be able to be addressed
[18:40] <philipballew> pleia2, pm for a quick question?
[18:40] <akk> MarkDude: Actually, yes, that would probably be a good place for someone to get involved.
[18:41] <akk> MarkDude: It could be done at least mostly as a plug-in, so it wouldn't need a lot of buy-in from the gimp core planners.
[18:41] <MarkDude> So GIMP forums would be the place to go?
[18:41] <akk> MarkDude: And the gegl dev (pippin) is in favor of tools like that.
[18:41] <akk> MarkDude: yes, #gimp and/or #gegl on gimpnet -- probably start with #gimp.
[18:41] <akk> During European hours.
[18:41] <MarkDude> Ah, makes sense
[18:42]  * MarkDude just sees there are so many great parts and pieces with GIMP
[18:42] <MarkDude> and it still does some really cool stuff that even CS5 does not
[18:43] <MarkDude> I had a friend tell me I would burn in hell for using CS5
[18:43] <MarkDude> :D
[18:43] <MarkDude> They are maybe correct. At least my using Win 7 could do that
[18:44] <akk> That might be a little extreme. :)
[18:50] <MarkDude> lol
[18:50] <MarkDude> Take a look at some of the zombie pics later, if you could
[18:50] <MarkDude> I am getting mixed reviews
[18:51] <MarkDude> hmmm, I did not have you on comic list on FB, added you. I can remove you if you like
[18:52] <MarkDude> pleia2, opted out of that list. UW folks are interested about 50% of the time
[18:57] <pleia2> philipballew: sure
[18:59] <akk> I never see FB lists anyway ... never figured out how those work.
[18:59] <MarkDude> akk, they are awesome
[18:59] <akk> I stopped having time to check FB and G+ when I started the ML class
[18:59]  * MarkDude realized only a few people cared about Jono and his metal
[18:59] <akk> and now it's over but I have tons of other stuff to do (fun hacking projects)
[19:00] <MarkDude> So I created a rock list
[19:00] <MarkDude> and post loud music to that
[19:00] <MarkDude> I have a comic list, since go figure, some folks dont want to see zombie stuff
[19:01] <MarkDude> I also have a short list of people that I care most about their updates
[19:01] <MarkDude> A list like that for you would be good
[19:01]  * akk needs to get her head out of this interesting HTML simplification project and back to work on my cool SCALE demo
[19:01] <MarkDude> We care most about just a few people
[19:01] <akk> These FB lists basically just control who sees your updates, and then people see them if they're regularly checking their FB streams?
[19:02] <MarkDude> making HTML simple? Whats your demo
[19:02] <MarkDude> well lists are two fold
[19:02] <MarkDude> I use it mostly to publish to specific people
[19:02]  * MarkDude overshares, and people complained
[19:02] <akk> MarkDude: My demo involves a cool robot project controlled from my laptop, and I don't want to go into too much detail ahead of time
[19:03] <MarkDude> I do have 2-3 lists of people that are most interesting
[19:03] <akk> I hope to demo it live at my SCALE talk (Sunday afternoon) assuming I can get it working reliably enough.
[19:03] <MarkDude> a tech list
[19:03] <MarkDude> just my tech friends
[19:03] <MarkDude> They usually dont have crapville requests
[19:03] <MarkDude> Which, by blocking most apps, my feede is now sorta useful
[19:06] <akk> I always blocked apps. But it's still a hassle to have to go there several times a day, and try to remember which updates I've seen before and which I haven't.
[19:06] <akk> It's a very inefficient model for keeping up with anyone, and I found it took too much time.
[19:07] <MarkDude> true
[19:07] <MarkDude> if you had a tech list, close friend list, and maybe one more
[19:07] <MarkDude> for family
[19:07] <MarkDude> Just dont have people on two or more lists
[19:08] <MarkDude> You dont see the same stuff
[19:08] <akk> Maybe they've finally changed that. They used to show things out of order, so every time I checked, there would be some new stuff and some old stuff.
[19:08] <MarkDude> I check my family list every so often, and dont miss stuff, and dont see the same stuff again
[19:08] <akk> They'd try to bubble "popular" things and things that had recent replies up higher in the list.
[19:08] <MarkDude> with good lists
[19:09] <MarkDude> Yes, it places us FB whores on top of feed
[19:09] <akk> If I checked once a day on every web forum (incl. FB and G+) that interests me, I'd do nothing else but check websites.
[19:09] <MarkDude> Not so good, just because all sorts of idiots wrote about it- does NOT make it interesting
[19:09] <akk> I wish it had a push model, where it would just send me the new stuff since the last update.
[19:09] <akk> You know, like email. :)
[19:09] <MarkDude> When you have recent 1st checked
[19:10] <MarkDude> you can do that, I can check the interersting stuff in a few minutes, with lists
[19:11]  * MarkDude will wroite a post on this, FB is more useful for me now
[19:11] <akk> I'd like to read your post (please announce it somewhere other than FB, so people who need to read it will see it :)
[19:12] <MarkDude> lol
[19:12] <MarkDude> I can do that
[19:12] <MarkDude> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150472335118805&set=a.10150389370018805.376793.717333804&type=3&theater
[19:13] <MarkDude> Zombies
[19:13] <akk> will try to remember to look later ... not sure I even have my FB profile set up on this machine
[19:13] <MarkDude> And not gross ones either, I had a few folks complain, mine are old skool mind control zombies, like with voodoo
[19:13] <akk> and that's members only, can't see it w/o a FB account
[19:13] <MarkDude> Yep, well some folks prefer to not see them.
[19:14] <MarkDude> I am putting some on picasa to make it easier
[19:15] <MarkDude> oh, before I go, I salute your soon-to-be supybot overlord you are making
[19:15] <MarkDude> :D
[20:06] <MarkDude> akk,  did any of your berries get killed by frost?
[20:07] <MarkDude> One of my plants did, the rest are fine
[20:07] <MarkDude> One had the tips die
[20:07] <akk> Not sure yet -- it was okay (a little brown) when I left.
[20:08] <akk> I gave it a lot of water beforehand, hoping that helps (supposedly it does).
[20:16] <MarkDude> Yep , I think the one that died lacked water before
[20:16] <MarkDude> So it was not happy


[02:57] <Pwnna> does anyone work on btrfs for ubuntu?
[03:03] <Pwnna> the choice of mounting / as subvol=@, is there a particular reason for this? This choice has made it impossible to use snapper without getting rid of that option all together.
[23:48] <wxl> `mk-sbuild trusty` on trusty results in: E: 99check: E: Failed to execute “99check”: No such file or directory. any ideas how to fix this?


[19:47] <highvoltage> ● edubuntu Meeting in a bit more than 10 minutes on #ubuntu-meeting
[20:58] <highvoltage> ~/win 29