[19:02] <revolutionary> hi :)
[22:10] <revolutionary> hi
[22:10] <revolutionary> i got your email but i can't find your channel on Matrix
[22:10] <revolutionary> i searched on #freenode but no luck
[22:10] <revolutionary> doesn't exist
[22:12] <obfs4[m]> hi theodotos :)
[22:13] <obfs4[m]> did you read my previous comments about grub encryption?


[18:11] <MrGrymReaper> Hello.
[18:12] <MrGrymReaper> Is the Ubuntu Desktop 14.04 release coming along well?


[09:32] <stickupkid> achilleasa, CR if you're around? fixes your concerns around reading stdin https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11796
[09:34] <achilleasa> stickupkid: looking
[10:38] <achilleasa> stickupkid: got more questions
[10:39] <stickupkid> achilleasa, because it's expected to use the very annoying options in the command
[10:40] <stickupkid> achilleasa, that parseOneArg does more than you think
[10:43] <stickupkid> achilleasa, also your code - os.Stdin isn't an io.Reader
[10:45] <achilleasa> it's not?
[10:45] <achilleasa> it should be an *os.File
[10:46] <stickupkid> let me try
[10:47] <achilleasa> stickupkid: so, does the ignoreagentversion bit also work for stdin inputs? I am confused :D
[10:47] <stickupkid> achilleasa, works for everything
[10:53] <stickupkid> achilleasa, if you don't add the ignore flag you get this error message
[10:53] <stickupkid> juju model-config --format=yaml | juju model-config -
[10:53] <stickupkid> ERROR "agent-version"" must be set via "upgrade-model"
[10:58] <stickupkid> achilleasa, you free for a sec?
[11:00] <achilleasa> stickupkid: sure; meet you in daily
[11:41] <zeestrat> Hey Juju folks, I have an existing model (v 2.5.8) with MAAS backend where I just added a new AZ and machines in that AZ but when I try to deploy new units it fails when provisioning as it does not recognise the new AZ and the machines in it. I tried `juju update-cloud <nameofmymaascloud>` but that didn't do the trick. How do I get Juju to recognise/update AZs from MAAS?
[11:42] <stickupkid> achilleasa, ^ that's reload spaces right?
[11:43] <zeestrat> I presumed reload spaces only reload the network spaces from MAAS and not the AZ?
[11:48] <achilleasa> stickupkid: I think that reload-spaces only refreshes subnets and spaces. Not sure about AZs though
[11:48] <stickupkid> yeah, that's why I asked, I'm not sure either
[11:48] <manadart_> zeestrat: We are working on independent modelling of AZs this cycle, but at present AZs are stored as part of subnet data, which is discovered during `reload-spaces`.
[11:50] <manadart_> zeestrat: If that does not work, it might be a MAAS provisioning bug.
[11:50] <zeestrat> manadart_: I see. I'll give it a try. Thank you. P.S Is there a way to inquire what AZs juju knows about?
[11:51] <manadart_> zeestrat: That is precisely the work we have on the table, including notification when a new one becomes available :)
[11:51] <zeestrat> manadart_: Great :) Any bugs or PRs I can subscribe to to follow along?
[12:01] <zeestrat> manadart_: Unfortunately it looks like `reload-spaces` didn't do the trick.
[12:02] <manadart_> zeestrat: Got some logs you can put in a pastebin?
[12:14] <zeestrat> manadart_: I tried scouring the machine logs, but not a lot to find. Here's what I have: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/QhzdvNwBs7/ Let me know if there is something else I should look at
[12:21] <manadart_> zeestrat: I need to look at the (old ;)) 2.5 code to get the real work on this. But have you tried using placement instead of a constraint? I.e. `--to zone=x`.
[12:31] <zeestrat> manadart_: Much appreciated! Yes, I tried `juju deploy ubuntu ubuntu --to zone=hcc-dev-rack4` for example, but that just hangs on pending: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MDWhGt5tPh/
[12:47] <manadart_> zeestrat: Are you running HA?
[12:48] <zeestrat> manadart_: If you mean HA controllers, yes, 3x.
[12:49] <manadart_> zeestrat: OK, so what you need to do is restart each of the controller machine agents.
[12:49] <manadart_> zeestrat: This is a bug in the provisioner, which has a cache of distribution groups for distributing new machines across AZs.
[12:50] <manadart_> zeestrat: So as per the cycle work, we need to make it aware of the fact that new AZs can come online.
[12:50] <manadart_> I replicated your situation and restarting my controller fixed it.
[12:52] <zeestrat> manadart_: I can work with that :) Is the `reload-spaces` still required in addition to the restarts?
[12:52] <manadart_> zeestrat: No.
[12:53] <manadart_> zeestrat: If you create a bug for this, I'll triage it and add it to the feature task list.
[12:54] <zeestrat> manadart_: Gotcha, will do. I'll give it a spin in dev here just to check. Thank you very much for digging in! (And apologies for the old version. Had this one since 2.0 and we're slowly catching up)
[12:55]  * manadart_ nods.
[13:15] <zeestrat> manadart_: Worked as a charm in dev, thanks again! For writing up the issue, is it a general provisioner issue or limited to HA and/or MAAS?
[13:15] <manadart_> zeestrat: Glad you're up. It's a general provisioner error.
[13:51] <zeestrat> manadart_: Created https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1886666 Please edit as you see fit.
[13:51] <mup> Bug #1886666: juju 2.5.8 does not recognise new AZs created in cloud after deployment of controller <juju:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1886666>
[13:52] <manadart_> zeestrat: Great, thanks.
[14:44] <jam> stickupkid, thanks for the review
[14:44] <stickupkid> jam, nps
[16:16] <manadart_> achilleasa: Got time to look at some more link-layer mechanics? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11807
[16:20] <achilleasa> manadart_: looking
[16:27] <achilleasa> manadart_: got a small nit about DocID(). Take a look at my comment and let me know what you think
[16:56] <stickupkid> hml, I updated my PR to rename charm to entity
[16:56] <hml> stickupkid: ack
[16:57] <stickupkid> hml, but I left the json tag for the client as "charm" so it will still work with their API
[16:57] <hml> :-)
[16:57] <stickupkid> see here https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11793/commits/a0a9060221f382d83648a63427d513094114b543#diff-0c3b53c2399932098ef150096b7df011R15
[16:57] <hml> stickupkid: i’ve started working on the review
[16:58] <stickupkid> i'm still unsure if we want an entity or a charm or bundle type.
[16:58] <stickupkid> but for now let's do this
[16:58] <hml> stickupkid: in my rework of where info convert is done… i used entity inside the apiserver, charm/bundle outside
[17:14] <manadart_> achilleasa: Replied to your comment. Have to head home now, so will look tomorrow.


[02:57] <jbicha> darkxst: why *do* we have gnome-shell depend on gdm3? I dropped that in artful for now and I'm thinking it might be good to SRU that back to xenial
[02:57] <jbicha> that debconf question is very annoying since I think many users don't know how to handle it
[03:03] <jbicha> people will still get the question if they install ubuntu-gnome-desktop unless we make that an alternate dependency
[05:11] <TheNumb> Didn't the lock screen depend on gdm?
[05:12] <TheNumb> I think it used to be the case
[12:24] <tony1> the package "nautilus-emblems" has a dependency issue. it will not work unless "gnome-icon-theme" is installed on the system, Whether or not it is used as the system theme icon set.
[12:25] <tony1> I hope devs are here?
[12:27] <jbicha> tony1: please file a bug
[12:31] <tony1> jbicha: where is the proper place?
[12:32] <jbicha> you can run ubuntu-bug nautilus-emblems
[12:32] <jbicha> We get the package from Debian so you could optionally file the bug there too
[12:33] <tony1> you could probably get more emblems installing more icon sets on the system.
[12:33] <tony1> ok will do
[14:04] <dreamcat4> hi. i just noticed that your official download links for 'stable release' are 16.04.2... however ubuntu has changed their policy (starting this .2 version)
[14:06] <dreamcat4> ... it seems that is a problem now actually! because this .2 gets less stable (newer) 4.8 kernel, etc like non-LSB releases and is not guaranteed for 5 years
[14:06] <dreamcat4> so where to download 'ubuntu-gnome' 16.04.0 from?
[14:06] <jbicha> dreamcat4: that's basically how 14.04 worked except that it's a bit better in 16.04 as it will automatically update the kernel and graphics driver
[14:07] <dreamcat4> oh ok
[14:07] <jbicha> if you want 16.04 without Hardware Enablement, you can download 16.04.1 from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-gnome/releases/16.04/release/
[14:08] <dreamcat4> my graphics is screwed up on 4.8 (because ASPEED didn't get around to fix it yet)
[14:08] <dreamcat4> thanks
[14:09] <dreamcat4> actually ... this explain also makes me a great help for other broken driver back in 14.04.x
[14:09] <dreamcat4> (which was a dvb tuner card)
[14:10] <dreamcat4> they should call it 'hardware breakage' instead of 'hardware enablement'
[15:16] <tony1> dreamcat4: installing ubuntu-gnome 17.04 actually fixed some driver issues for me but the upgrade processes caused issues and I needed to install clean.
[15:17] <dreamcat4> unfortunately only LTS release has the live kernel patching... (at least for the time being)
[16:09] <elopio> jbicha: Hello! Like a month ago I sent you an email about the ubuntu testing days on fridays. We are talking about ubuntu flavours, and we would like to talk about gnome too, with you.
[16:10] <elopio> it's just a relaxed talk, 30 minutes tops. Like this one about mate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75zgIVHkXRA
[16:10] <elopio> jbicha: would you like to join us one of the following fridays?
[19:45] <tony1> with 17.04 where did the option go to right click and umount a share that is shown on the desktop?


[00:00] <rtgz_> tchernobog, the only way I can explain this is that couchdb was not very cooperative to evolution. When couchdb got restarted, existing e-d-s did not spot the change of the credentials, environment or the phase of the moon. Killing e-d-s made it reconnect to couchdb server.
[00:00] <rtgz_> BUT
[00:01] <rtgz_> the question is why it did not work earlier
[00:01] <tchernobog> nice question
[00:01] <tchernobog> probably because the credentials went wrong for both the sync daemon and evo
[00:02] <rtgz_> tchernobog, yes, but you say that sync stopped this friday or so.
[00:03] <rtgz_> tchernobog, okay, the only thing required is to reproduce it somehow with some dummy data to make sure this will not get 'WTF?' questions in the future
[00:05] <tchernobog> oh, for heaven sake. i don't know if i should shiver or cheer
[00:06] <tchernobog> it has also sent online the contact I copied from my evolution addressbook
[00:06] <tchernobog> to the couchdb one
[00:06] <tchernobog> it took ages, but it did that
[00:07] <rtgz_> tchernobog, the contacts are first created in local couchdb and then replicated to u1 service every $some minute.
[00:07] <tchernobog> yes, so we know now it works
[00:07] <tchernobog> but i'm still wondering why it didn't before
[00:09] <rtgz_> tchernobog, unfortunately I've seen at least 2 such cases here in the last 2 weeks, when it "magically" started to work.
[00:09] <tchernobog> so, the fastest route seems to remove the auth keys from seahorse and, if you're not familiar with the terminal, log out and in again
[00:10] <rtgz_> tchernobog, okay, that was a nice chat but it's 2AM over here and it looks like this is time to sleep :) So good luck with your BhD! And stay tuned to #ubuntuone, not only if something bad happens but when something good happens as well :)
[00:10] <tchernobog> it's 1 AM here, so I agree
[00:10] <rtgz_> tchernobog, in your case it was necessary to kill the management
[00:10] <rtgz_> :)
[00:10] <rtgz_> * the management database :)
[00:10] <tchernobog> sleep tight, thanks for everything
[00:10] <tchernobog> oh, i do that at work everyday
[00:10] <tchernobog> damn, you beat me on time
[00:11] <tchernobog> goodbye, and thanks
[00:11] <rtgz_> tchernobog, yep, you too. good night :)
[00:11]  * rtgz_ copies the log 'cause ubuntulog does not seem to log this weekend's conversations
[04:23] <TaoYinqing> hello is anybody here
[04:24] <TaoYinqing> i have a question that when i synchronize notes use tomboy with one.ubuntu there is a error that "Could not synchronize notes"
[04:25] <TaoYinqing> my tomboy is new install but i have some notes in the ubuntuone before some notes write using tomboy under ubuntu and some under xp
[04:27] <TaoYinqing> ???????????
[09:19] <aquarius> thomasbe, hey
[09:20] <mandel> aquarius: is launchpad down?
[09:21] <aquarius> looks like it
[09:22] <mandel> aquarius: question, have you notice that when working with desktopcouch trunk if you try to access the db through the bookmark it asks for username and password?
[09:22] <mandel> I've been dealing with it most of the weekend and I do not know it is is 'cause I broke it or 'cause it happens in every machine
[09:22] <aquarius> mandel, it shouldn't do; if it does, that means the couchdb.html file is out of date. that's what we tried to fix in dallas, no?
[09:23] <mandel> aquarius, dallas was another issue, there the bookmark was not updated with the right port and password, in this case the port is correct but it ask for auth
[09:24] <aquarius> ah, you mean that it says "you are about to log into localhost port 23423 with username KLHFOIUHEFPHP are you sure you want to allow this?"
[09:25] <mandel> no, it actually asks for the user name and password, that message I know
[09:25] <aquarius> so the port is right but the username/password are wrong?
[09:25] <aquarius> that's broken
[09:25] <aquarius> delete the ini file and restart DC
[09:26] <aquarius> I actually have instructions for how to do that in http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch/Documentation/Troubleshooting now :)
[09:28] <mandel> that is what I have been doing all day :P
[09:28] <aquarius> mandel, LP back up anyway
[09:28] <mandel> well, and fight with bloody quickly to make a package...
[09:28] <aquarius> mandel, confused :(
[09:29] <mandel> aquarius, funny, anyways, I just wanted to check if my ppa was there with the new version
[09:30] <homeasvs_> aquarius, hi
[09:30] <mandel> I'll hang around here all day anyway, I'm working from home, the business is deciding if the cancel yet another project I'm working on at the office, so nothing to do there today :D
[09:30] <homeasvs_> aquarius, so, currently struggling with figuring out why couchdb internally fails to replicate with ubuntuone
[09:30] <homeasvs_> aquarius, works on my ubuntu macbook, fails on my two f11 machines
[09:31] <aquarius> homeasvs_, and the replication log isn't showing anything massively obvious?
[09:31] <homeasvs_> aquarius, currently suspecting certificate stuff, but don't know how erlang/ssl/couchdb/desktopcouch works
[09:31] <homeasvs_> aquarius, nope, nothing obvious
[09:31] <homeasvs_> aquarius, and pretty sure it's in ssl_esock
[09:31] <homeasvs_> which is what I've been stracing for a while now
[09:31] <homeasvs_> it would help if someone could look at the u1's couchdb log :)
[09:31] <aquarius> ah, man, you think it's actuallly failing in the SSL stuff?
[09:31] <homeasvs_> yeah
[09:31] <aquarius> I can look at that log, sort of
[09:31] <homeasvs_> that's my best guess atm
[09:31] <aquarius> we only get it refreshed once an hour
[09:32] <aquarius> (debugging this stuff was really hard for us, too)
[09:32] <homeasvs_> oh well, should be fine, it's been failing all weekend :)
[09:32] <homeasvs_> but first of all, know anything about how the certificate part works ?
[09:32]  * aquarius grins. I'll have a look
[09:32] <homeasvs_> maybe erlang is just internally failing because it doesn't know the certificate
[09:32] <aquarius> could be -- have you said your couch debugging level to debug?
[09:33] <homeasvs_> also, what's the 'weird' part from this url:  https://couchdb.one.ubuntu.com/u%2F0a4%2F330%2F97870%2Fgtd/
[09:33] <homeasvs_> is that some hash tied to my user ?
[09:33] <aquarius> yes
[09:33] <homeasvs_> aquarius, yes, I did, also on the working one, to see where it compares
[09:33] <homeasvs_> aquarius, ok, do you have a way to see if it's actually there on the server ?
[09:33] <aquarius> we need that because you might have a gtd database and so might i
[09:33] <homeasvs_> understood
[09:34] <homeasvs_> how long is an oauth token valid for ? I tried to do manual curl requests to see if I could debug it, but couldn't get a working token
[09:34] <aquarius> I don't have such a way, but I think I can find an admin who does :)
[09:34] <aquarius> oauth token should be valid forever
[09:34] <aquarius> BUT
[09:34] <homeasvs_> can only be used once ? :)
[09:34] <aquarius> we've had a couple of server problems with oauth tokens
[09:34] <aquarius> the token for filesync occasionally doesn't end up correctly in couchdb
[09:34] <aquarius> meaning that you can't authenticate
[09:35] <homeasvs_> hm, well filesync has worked from the beginning
[09:35] <aquarius> yep
[09:35] <homeasvs_> my problem is pretty much only with the couchdb sync part
[09:35] <homeasvs_> so, anyone who knows about the certificates part and how I can debug it ?
[09:35] <aquarius> yeah, the issue is that for some people, their oauth token never gets copied to couchdb, so they can't sync to couch.
[09:35] <homeasvs_> the weird thing is, on the macbook, I see it looking for a .pem file, but it fails to find it
[09:35] <aquarius> it only seems to happen occasionally, and we're not sure why
[09:35] <homeasvs_> and it goes on without it
[09:36] <homeasvs_> on my machine, it does find it, reads through it, and then goes on
[09:36] <homeasvs_> hm
[09:36] <homeasvs_> maybe I should try *moving* my ssl certs temporarily just to see what would happen
[09:36] <aquarius> I don't get that, though
[09:37] <aquarius> give me a quick primer on SSL -- do you suspect that the problem is that our SSL server is signed with a root cert that's not in Fedora but is in Ubuntu? or do you suspect something stranger?
[09:37] <homeasvs_> I assume u1's couch is only available over https ?
[09:37] <aquarius> correct, https only.
[09:38] <homeasvs_> aquarius, at the moment I'm suspecting the reverse - ubuntu's ssl_esock is not finding any certificates, so just happily accepts
[09:38] <aquarius> otherwise all your data is sniffable :)
[09:38]  * aquarius laughs
[09:38] <homeasvs_> fedora's does find certificates, and then hangs up because it doesn't match
[09:38] <homeasvs_> it's a wild intuition based on the logs however
[09:38] <aquarius> if that's actually the case, then I do believe we have a bug to fix, since SSL is flat not meant to work like that :)
[09:38] <homeasvs_> my previous guess was 'fedora doesn't know about u1's cert, so it hangs up' haven't ruled that out yet
[09:39] <homeasvs_> yeah :)
[09:39] <homeasvs_> well, it's harder with the exponential backoff :) right now it's waiting for 256 secs before giving up finally
[09:39] <homeasvs_> definitely, desktopcouch-service doesn't handle this error case nicely - a bunch of threads are left hanging
[09:39] <homeasvs_> (when you run -stop)
[09:40] <homeasvs_> (why are you even spawning threads at all if you're using twisted ?)
[09:41] <aquarius> on threads, I'm not sure -- chad knows more about that piece of the code.
[09:43] <aquarius> On error handling -- from my perspective that's a slightly philosophical issue. It should work. We shouldn't deal with auth not working, because there's no reason why it shouldn't work, in the same way that apps shouldn't have to deal well with "I wrote the letter A to a file and when I read it back it was B", because that should just work
[09:44] <homeasvs_> what do you mean, 'auth should just work' ? the internet is a hostile place, code should handle failures gracefully
[09:44] <homeasvs_> hm, any idea what cert auth your cert is signed by ? the go daddy one ?
[09:45] <aquarius> there isn't any graceful handling, though. If replication doesn't work then the whole replication daemon is screwed, basically
[09:45] <aquarius> what should it do at that point?
[09:46] <homeasvs_> not sure which use case specifically we're talking about here
[09:47] <homeasvs_> for the filesync I'd expect the notification applet to tell me there is a problem
[09:47] <homeasvs_> (but right now it's still using 100% CPU when it's running, that's after this ssl bug on my list of things to fix)
[09:47] <homeasvs_> hm
[09:47] <homeasvs_> so, might it be possible that you need one of the two u1-storage-protocol .pem files installed for this to work at all ?
[09:47] <aquarius> asking our admin people about the cert
[09:48] <homeasvs_> if that's the case, *and* I am lucky, then it's just a matter of installing those .pems in the different locatino for fedora
[09:49] <aquarius> admins say: godaddy
[09:50] <aquarius> fingers crossed that you are lucky :-)
[09:51]  * aquarius gives bug 489963 a baffled look
[09:52] <aquarius> why would d-bus starting desktopcouch-service make a difference? don't understand that.
[09:52] <homeasvs_> yeah, me neither
[09:52] <homeasvs_> I will do a bunch of repeat tests, maybe it's entirely random
[09:53] <homeasvs_> hm, so those two pem's you ship with u1-storage.... are they CA certs ? or something else ?
[09:53]  * homeasvs_ always gets those things confused
[09:57] <aquarius> I don't know about the pems either -- I *think* they are certs
[09:57] <homeasvs_> ok, so let's start simple here.
[09:57] <homeasvs_> How can I issue a curl request to my local desktopcouch to make it try and replicate to u1 ?
[09:57] <homeasvs_> that would make this debug process a lot faster
[09:59] <aquarius> right, let me construct that for you, hang on
[10:04] <homeasvs_> I'm not convinced I have a cert problem.  When I browse manually with firefox or links to https://couchdb.one.ubuntu.com/(hash)/contacts/, it pops up a dialog saying 'administrator' asking for user/pass
[10:05] <homeasvs_> that would indicate there is no cert issue, I'd think
[10:12] <aquarius> homeasvs_, curl -X POST http://basicauthusername:pw@localhost:LOCALPORT/_replicate -d '{"source":"database", "target": { "url": "", "auth": { "oauth": {"token":"", "token_secret": "", "consumer_key": "", "consumer_secret": "" } } } }'
[10:12] <aquarius> homeasvs_, I agree on the cert thing
[10:13] <aquarius> see your local management database for the oauth details, specifically the record about Ubuntu One
[10:14] <rtgz> could somebody with sufficient permissions please poke ubuntulog so that it starts logging to irclogs.ubuntu.com?
[10:15] <homeasvs_> aquarius, I tried that this weekend, let's see if I can try that again
[10:16] <homeasvs_> aquarius, did you know that jsut changing the http:// part of that to be correct makes the request hang ?
[10:16] <homeasvs_> aquarius, ie, with all empty vars
[10:16] <homeasvs_> aquarius, can you reproduce that problem ?
[10:18] <aquarius> so, with correct basicauthusername/password, a correct source dbname, and a correct target url?
[10:20] <homeasvs_> yes
[10:20] <homeasvs_> wait
[10:20] <homeasvs_> that's not what I meant
[10:20] <homeasvs_> with correct basicauthusername/pw, and everything else as you typed
[10:20] <aquarius> doesn't hang for me; I get {"error":"db_not_found","reason":"could not open https://couchdb.one.ubuntu.com/u%2F3c5%2F9dc%2F21%2Ftest/"}
[10:20] <homeasvs_> ie, empty variable values
[10:20] <aquarius> which I'd expect
[10:21] <aquarius> with an empty target url, I get an erlang traceback error,no_scheme
[10:21] <aquarius> which I'd also expect
[10:21] <homeasvs_> really ? I get no result
[10:21] <homeasvs_> just hangs
[10:21] <homeasvs_> I'd expect it to error out
[10:21] <aquarius> because it's trying to connect to a target URL that isn't there
[10:21] <homeasvs_> maybe I should try this against my 'normal' one
[10:22] <homeasvs_> so it should tell me it's not there instead of hanging!
[10:22] <aquarius> curl -X POST http://UUU:PPP@localhost:39834/_replicate -d '{"source":"test", "target": { "url": "", "auth": { "oauth": {"token":"", "token_secret": "", "consumer_key": "", "consumer_secret": "" } } } }'
[10:22] <aquarius> that gives me an erlang traceback
[10:22] <homeasvs_> it does so too on my macbook
[10:22] <homeasvs_> not on my fedora machines
[10:22] <aquarius> are you using the same version of couch?
[10:22] <aquarius> we carry a couple of couch patches
[10:23] <homeasvs_> yeah, I pulled in those patches this weekend
[10:23] <homeasvs_> so afaik yes, but not sure how to be sure :)
[10:23]  * aquarius grins
[10:23] <homeasvs_> I just noticed though you guys carry erlang 13b while fedora has r12b
[10:23] <aquarius> I'm not sure either
[10:23] <aquarius> aha
[10:24] <aquarius> that might have something to do with it
[10:24] <homeasvs_> you think there might be important bugs fixed there ?
[10:24] <homeasvs_> sheesh, I would *not* look forward to rebuilding erlang :/
[10:24] <aquarius> yes. the couch people bumped their required erlang version up a few notches
[10:24] <aquarius> I don't know exactly which minimum version is required, but I am pretty sure that you need r13
[10:25] <aquarius> we rely on #couchdb to tell us that...
[10:25] <aquarius> I'll ask them
[10:30] <homeasvs_> ok, so interesting!
[10:30] <homeasvs_> I can get curl to do replication now
[10:30] <homeasvs_> on my fedora machine
[10:31] <homeasvs_> when source is local, and target is ubuntuone, it seems to 'work' in the sense that it finishes properly
[10:31] <homeasvs_> when I reverse source and target, to pull from u1, then I get all the worker dead errors in my couchdb log
[10:31] <mandel> rodrigo_ ping
[10:31] <homeasvs_> trying the same now on the macbook
[10:31] <homeasvs_> so on the macbook, it works both ways
[10:31] <homeasvs_> interesting!
[10:31] <homeasvs_> now what could cause the push to work and the pull to fail ?
[10:32] <homeasvs_> aquarius, I think we could really use those server logs right about now :)
[10:33] <aquarius> looking for them :)
[10:35] <aquarius> can you name a specific database that you've been trying to replicate that other people may not have?
[10:36] <homeasvs> well, right now I'm doing it with contacts
[10:36] <homeasvs> I know it's there, since it works on the macbook with ubuntu
[10:37] <homeasvs> and u1's web shows me the contacts I created
[10:37] <homeasvs> one is me, one is one i created through the web, and one from evo
[10:37] <homeasvs> this particular db I cannot 'pull' from u1 on my f11 machine
[10:37] <homeasvs> to me it seems like it's failing internally somewhere
[10:37] <homeasvs> I'll show you what debug messages I get from that
[10:39] <aquarius> ok, looking at logs
[10:39] <rodrigo_> mandel: pong
[10:39] <homeasvs> aquarius, http://pastebin.com/m251b3508
[10:40] <homeasvs> aquarius, so, as soon as I ask to replicate, I get these couch_rep_httpc errors
[10:40] <mandel> rodrigo_: I was wondering what are we going to be doing about the groups, are we using the categories field?
[10:40] <aquarius> ooooo.
[10:41] <rodrigo_> mandel: not on the stable version, but we should be adding it soon
[10:41] <mandel> rodrigo_: and how are the groups represented, string, lists of strings...
[10:41] <aquarius> they're not good. Like you say, that's an internal-to-couchdb error
[10:41] <rodrigo_> mandel: comma-separated strings
[10:41] <mandel> rodrigo_: which field?
[10:42] <rodrigo_> mandel: categories
[10:43] <mandel> rodrigo_: ok, I'll work on my side with that assumption to try and get my stuff working, gracias :P
[10:43] <rodrigo_> mandel: for simulating groups, we could use '/', so friends/madrid, work, work/design_team, etc
[10:44] <mandel> rodrigo_: I was thinking of that as well, it should be easy to implement without much problems
[10:47] <aquarius> once again, don't do that
[10:47] <aquarius> make a group a list
[10:48] <aquarius> [ ["friends", "madrid"], ["work"], ["work", "design team"] ]
[10:48] <aquarius> otherwise fans/AC/DC is a problem
[10:48] <aquarius> :)
[10:48] <mandel> aquarius: bloody AC/DC
[10:49] <aquarius> hey, they have a number of fans, what with being the most popular rock band in the world and all :-)
[10:49] <mandel> aquarius: the worst thing is that you used the same example in dallas
[10:49] <aquarius> I know :)
[10:56] <homeasvs> aquarius, f12 has a 13B erlang, will try and rebuild that one and see what happens
[10:56] <aquarius> aha, that sounds useful
[10:56] <homeasvs> I wish erlang tracebacks were more readable
[10:56] <aquarius> I don't know how easy it is to backpor
[10:56] <aquarius> *backport
[10:56] <homeasvs> come to think of it, I wish erlang were more readable :)
[10:56] <homeasvs> we'll see soon enough
[10:56] <aquarius> homeasvs, hahaha. You are not the first person to complain about this, my man :)
[10:57] <homeasvs> do you guys carry specific erlang patches ?
[10:57] <aquarius> we hate it just as much as you do :)
[10:57] <homeasvs> I don't know yet if it's hate or ignorance :)
[10:57] <aquarius> erlang...not sure, hang on
[10:57] <homeasvs> I need to context-switch into work
[10:58] <aquarius> bah
[10:58] <aquarius> work's not important. :)
[10:58] <aquarius> I concede that I have the advantage that this *is* work for me :)
[11:02] <mandel> aquarius: that is not fair... wanna swap jobs? :P
[11:02] <aquarius> nah, i like my job :)
[11:03] <mandel> aquarius: sigh, had to try ;)
[11:18] <aquarius> homeasvs, I don't *think* we're carrying any relevant erlang patches to 13b1. There *is* an ssl patch, but it says that it's to add ipv6 support for ssl
[11:19] <aquarius> I suppose it's possible that that alters the way ssl works in some way. But I'd try the stock r13b from f12 first, I think
[12:11] <gourgi> hi all,. QUESTION: is birthday & anniversary contact sync working ?  what is the proper format for birthday so that i can test it from the webUI ?  01/15/2001 is correct ?
[12:11] <homeasvs> aquarius, ok, it looks like exactly the same request with 13b erlang works
[12:12] <aquarius> homeasvs, aha. so, I conclude that r13b is required :)
[12:13] <homeasvs> will file a couchdb bug and see what they say
[12:13] <homeasvs> and verify some more
[12:13] <aquarius> gourgi, that's a rodrigo_ question, that is :)
[12:13] <homeasvs> this might be close to the end of the tunnel
[12:13] <aquarius> homeasvs, heh, enjoy interacting with the glory that is Jira :)
[12:13] <gourgi> :)
[12:13] <aquarius> rodrigo_, ^^
[12:13] <rodrigo_> gourgi: yyyy-mm-dd
[12:14] <rodrigo_> gourgi: but there is a bug in the version in karmic, so please use the updates in our beta ppa
[12:14] <gourgi> ty rodrigo_ , so it should work , right?
[12:14] <aquarius> rodrigo_, if date format matters, should we be enforcing it?
[12:14] <gourgi> ah ok , i will thanks rodrigo_
[12:14] <gourgi> keep up the good work guys ;) U1 is great so far
[12:14] <rodrigo_> aquarius: we enforce it in the web UI
[12:14] <rodrigo_> aquarius: and evolution knows how to deal with the current locale
[12:14] <aquarius> ah, OK
[12:15] <aquarius> gourgi, where were you entering a date?
[12:15] <gourgi> at evolution firstrly, now i;ll try the PPA and the webUI
[12:15] <gourgi> evolution first didn't work, only for birthday data
[12:16] <rodrigo_> gourgi: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone/+archive/beta
[12:16] <gourgi> rodrigo_ ty :)
[12:16] <rodrigo_> gourgi: yeah, it was broken, so was not saving any date at all
[12:18] <thomasbe> aquarius: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-585
[12:18] <homeasvs> alright, let's see if I can get full sync working now
[12:18] <gourgi> rodrigo_ another question : in the webUI contacts sort by first name. wouldn't be better to be sorted by last name?
[12:19] <gourgi> at least that is the default sorting in my country (Greece)
[12:19] <aquarius> homeasvs, good work. We make progress!
[12:19] <aquarius> homeasvs, s/We/You/, obviously :P
[12:19] <homeasvs> aquarius, heh.  where progress is me suffering all weekend and you coming in on a monday :)
[12:20] <aquarius> homeasvs, I'd have been here over the weekend if I had the net
[12:20] <aquarius> as it is I am still using my mobile phone
[12:20] <aquarius> stupid cable provider :(
[12:20] <homeasvs> aquarius, no worries, I'm a free man, it's my choice to waste my weekend on exciting new and fragile tech :)
[12:20]  * aquarius grins
[12:20] <rtgz> gourgi, I guess the better option is to be able to specify the sorting method, 'cause it is common to sort by last name here, in post-USSR countries, but the 'new generation' uses first name sorting
[12:21] <rodrigo_> gourgi: yeah, maybe, file a bug if you think so please
[12:21] <homeasvs> aquarius, btw I submitted a patch to make desktop-pair a little cleaner code-wise - not sure if I need to sign anything if you want to accept those ?
[12:21] <aquarius> most mobile phones etc seem to default to first-name sorting, because people think of their friends as "George", not "Mr Kite"
[12:21] <gourgi> rtgz agree, rodrigo_ what is the proper package.place to fill a bug ?
[12:22] <aquarius> homeasvs, I saw the patch (and good work!); we need the contributor agreement signed, yeah (http://www.canonical.com/contributors), if you would
[12:22] <aquarius> gourgi, file a bug with "ubuntu-bug evolution-couchdb" from a terminal
[12:23] <rtgz> gourgi, I guess it will be the https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+filebug. aquarius isn't it the Web UI setting, re: sorting method?
[12:23] <gourgi> aquarius ok thanks, i've asked because it is a suggestion against the webUI
[12:23] <aquarius> rtgz, hm, yes, true -- gourgi, please use the URL that rtgz gives :) sorry :)
[12:24] <gourgi> okk :)
[12:24] <homeasvs> sweet jesus
[12:24] <homeasvs> here are all my contacts and bookmarks, sitting pretty in my desktopcouch
[12:24] <aquarius> homeasvs, w00! rawk.
[12:24] <homeasvs> ok, now I can get into the more interesting questions
[12:24] <homeasvs> still left: 100% CPU in the applet to fix
[12:24] <homeasvs> so, first question
[12:24] <homeasvs> why are the replications not continuous ? :)
[12:25] <aquarius> ah, now, we thought about continuous replication, and there were some issues with it
[12:25] <homeasvs> I find it weird to go through all this trouble, then notice a delay between editing on one machine and seeing them on another
[12:25] <aquarius> but, annoyingly, I can't remember precisely what led us to do every-10-minutes rather than continuous
[12:25] <rtgz> one more, there were some disruptions of the service yesterday, i.e. no files were accessible via the web interface. Is there any way for u1 to set up some 'status' service, i.e. "the storage service is inaccessible because it broke. ETA: 12 hours, workarounds:", "couchdb service: ok", "sync service": ok
[12:25] <homeasvs> it's like running the race, then falling over right before arriving at the finish line, dropping your pants, and sticking your bottom out
[12:25] <aquarius> when cardinalfang shows up we'll ask him, since I bet he remembers. :)
[12:26] <aquarius> homeasvs, colourful analogy ;-)
[12:26] <homeasvs> aquarius, all I'm saying is, we should be going the last mile :)
[12:26] <rtgz> because the users are made to think about u1 as a 'magical world' where everything happens by itself :)
[12:26] <homeasvs> aquarius, if there's a reason, I'd like to know, because all your eager testers are going to wonder exactly the same thing.  'why does this thing not sync automatically?'
[12:27] <aquarius> homeasvs, agreed
[12:27] <homeasvs> ok, I'll clean up my packaging so I can put stuff online.  I've patched everything that didn'twork on stock python 2.6.0, without needing to touch python
[12:27] <homeasvs> it's a fragile balance but it seems to work, except for the applet.
[12:27] <gourgi> bug submitted # 490311
[12:27] <homeasvs> I should try desktop pairing again to see if sync now works fine there
[12:28] <aquarius> thanks for doing that. It's a touch difficult for us to check whether a thing we're relying on actually appeared in python 2.6.1 or whatever :(
[12:28] <homeasvs> aquarius, buildbots ?
[12:28] <homeasvs> shouldn't be too hard
[12:28] <aquarius> the horror that is httplib being a case in point
[12:29] <homeasvs> come to think of it - do you have a testsuite that would have shown me these bugs ?
[12:29] <aquarius> there's a test suite, yes, but it doesn't test replication at the moment
[12:29] <aquarius> "trial desktopcouch" will run the test suite
[12:30] <aquarius> homeasvs, on buildbots, yeah, but we rely on a load of stuff that appeared in 9.10, so we don't test against 9.04, which had a lower version of Python
[12:34] <homeasvs> aquarius, second question, is my data encrypted on u1 ?
[12:34] <homeasvs> aquarius, if not, any plans for that ?
[12:34] <homeasvs> aquarius, not yet sure I *want* my personal data readable by your admins
[12:35] <aquarius> homeasvs, it's not encrypted on the back end, because we want to integrate with encryption on the desktop; obviously data that's encrypted ont he desktop will be encrypted on the server too
[12:35] <aquarius> testing replication is hard, btw, because the test suite would need to set up two couchdbs and an ssl proxy to do it properly :(
[12:36] <homeasvs> aquarius, so you're basically saying, the client should encrypt docs somehow before sending to ubuntuone ?
[12:36] <aquarius> Ubuntu has the concept of an "encrypted Private directory" (it uses ecryptfs), so we'd like to integrate with that
[12:36] <gourgi> homeasvs try cryptkeeper, it uses EncFS for encryption , i use it and it works. you only need to remember the passprhase and keep .encfs6.xml for restore purposes.
[12:37] <homeasvs> aquarius, gourgi: not sure how either would work for my data in couchdb ?
[12:37] <aquarius> homeasvs, oh, couchdb data? that's not encrypted, but it is secured with your oauth token, which I do not have
[12:38] <homeasvs> aquarius, but anyone who's root on that machine can get my data no ?
[12:38] <homeasvs> aquarius, or am I missing something ?
[12:38] <aquarius> homeasvs, correct, because they can read your oauth token out of your keyring
[12:39] <homeasvs> ok
[12:39] <homeasvs> so encryption might still be a desired feature
[12:39] <homeasvs> maybe that should be a couchdb feature
[12:39] <homeasvs> ok, third question
[12:39] <homeasvs> it looks like replication doesn't replicate any of my views/templates/...
[12:39] <aquarius> interesting idea. I'm not sure how it'd work, but it needs talking about
[12:39] <homeasvs> is that possible ?
[12:40] <homeasvs> it'd be nice if it was possible to get something futon-like accessible for the u1 couchdb
[12:40] <homeasvs> it makes it hard to debug certain things without seeing what's going on there
[12:40] <aquarius> it would be nice. We're still talking about that.
[12:40] <aquarius> part of the problem is that browsers don't do oauth :(
[12:40] <gourgi> is there a way to force a contact sync from evolution ?
[12:41] <aquarius> homeasvs, there are certain issues with you being able to create views that actually run on one.ubuntu.com, like we need to stop you writing a view which eats all the CPU for example. This is why it's not currently possible :)
[12:42] <aquarius> homeasvs, but I really like the idea of being able to write CouchApps on top of couchdb and deploy them on our infrastructure
[12:42] <homeasvs> aquarius, yeah, the views was what I was suspecting would be the major blocker, but it ought to be doable to limit that
[12:43] <homeasvs> aquarius, I don't necessarily need to run my couchapp on your infrastructure, I just want that couchapp replicated to all my clients
[12:43] <aquarius> agreed it ought to be doable, we just haven't yet had a chance to figure out how :)
[12:43] <homeasvs> aquarius, right now it seems it doesn't do that
[12:43] <homeasvs> aquarius, am I missing something maybe ? Or has it not been tried ?
[12:43] <homeasvs> I'm not 100% sure how these things work, I  think they are attachments to a database
[12:44] <aquarius> yeah. A temporary get-halfway-there approach would be to allow replicating the views but not allow them to run on the infrastructure
[12:44] <aquarius> I believe the issue is this: views are defined in design documents. To create a design document you have to be an admin. you're not an admin on couchdb.one.ubuntu.com, so the views don't replicate
[12:44] <homeasvs> oh, ok
[12:44] <aquarius> thisfred knows Much about this area, though, so we'll ping him when he arrives
[12:45] <homeasvs> ok
[12:45] <homeasvs> so I guess for now I need to use couchapp to push it to my desktopcouch instance
[12:45] <aquarius> yeah, although couchapp won't push it there by default because it doesn't know about oauth
[12:45] <aquarius> on my list of Cool Stuff I Would Like To Do is teach it :)
[12:46] <aquarius> (you could just use the basic auth username adn password, which you are Not Supposed To Do, but I didn't just suggest that :))
[12:46] <gourgi> contact sync with birthday works with the ppa version. cool! :)
[12:47] <aquarius> gourgi, excellent!
[12:47] <homeasvs> aquarius, don't worry, I was already planning to do just that
[12:47] <homeasvs> aquarius, let's ping thisfred now that he's arrived
[12:49] <thisfred> homeasvs: actually I just dropped in on IRC to say that I'm sick, sorry. You can mail me at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and I promise I'll have a look at it when I get better, if no ome else here can help you
[12:49] <homeasvs> thisfred, get better soon
[13:14] <aquarius> homeasvs, have submitted your patch for code review at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~sil/desktopcouch/pick-or-listen-non-global-489925/+merge/15419
[13:15] <aquarius> homeasvs, I don't know if you're using bzr, but if you are then you are welcome to submit branches yourself?)
[13:35] <mandel> aquarius: question, is when creating a record passing a dict, the dict contains and "_id", should't the record_id be set up?
[13:35] <aquarius> mandel, yes.
[13:35] <aquarius> I think
[13:35]  * aquarius checks :)
[13:36] <mandel> aquarius, do you mind if i send a patch then :D
[13:38] <aquarius> mandel, it works for me
[13:38] <aquarius> python -c "from desktopcouch.records.server import CouchDatabase; from desktopcouch.records.record import Record; db=CouchDatabase('test', create=True); r=Record({'_id':'someid','name':'sil'}, record_type='http://example.org'); db.put_record(r)"
[13:39] <mandel> aquarius, 'cause the couchdatabase class does the check, but not if you do: record = Record({"_id":"2323"}, record_type="url")
[13:39] <mandel> server_base does record_id = record.record_id or record._data.get('_id', '')
[13:39] <mandel> while record does not
[13:40] <aquarius> mandel, ah, so you want Record by itself to set up record_id? gotcha. Yep, patch patch patch away :)
[13:40] <mandel> aquarius: ok, thanks :D
[13:43] <mandel> aquarius: what should happen if the data passed to record have an _id and we pass the record_id parameter?
[13:43] <mandel> aquarius, I'd say exception
[13:44] <aquarius> issue a warning with warnings.warn and use the one in _id
[13:44] <aquarius> I suppose we could throw an exception, but it seems a bit harsh
[13:44] <mandel> aquarius, ok
[14:20] <mandel> aquarius, patch done and summited :)
[14:21] <aquarius> mandel, nice :) did you link your newly created bug to the branch?
[14:21] <mandel> aquarius, yes
[14:21] <aquarius> winner
[14:21] <mandel> aquarius, I'm getting better at this ;)
[14:37]  * rtgz has been browsing google wave for 6 hours and still can't get the point...
[14:40] <rtgz> http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Ubuntu-One-Clients-for-KDE-and-Fedora: Independent of the Kubuntu project, Fedora developer Thomas Vander Stichele is working on an Ubuntu One client for Fedora. Because Ubuntu One is at least partially a closed code project, it creates somewhat of a challenge. (Marcel Hilzinger)
[14:43] <mandel> you, close source bastards! hehe
[14:44] <rtgz> yep, we demand the access to the closed-source billing system including credit cards data
[14:50] <homeasvs> it's amazing how many pingbacks I get on the fact that I'm doing this
[15:24] <CardinalFang> mandel, I reviewed "record_id" branch.
[15:26] <mandel> CardinalFang: replying right now, I agree with most of it, including removing record_id and use a property that just looks into _data
[15:26] <mandel> in the branch I already removed all the uses of _id outside record that I know
[15:26] <CardinalFang> You rock.
[15:28] <mandel> CardinalFang: I'll update the code and will let u know through lp :P
[15:36] <mandel> CardinalFang: wondering about the setter... we probably need it to make sure that we do not brak anything that already uses it
[15:37] <mandel> probably when someone does a put_record he also sets it, which is something that the CouchDatabase object does not take care of
[16:25] <mandel> CardinalFang: ping
[16:29] <rtgz> joshuahoover, have you seen the diagnostic script for u1 client?
[16:29] <joshuahoover> rtgz: i have not, i was out the past few days
[16:32] <CardinalFang> mandel, hi
[16:32] <mandel> CardinalFang, hello
[16:33] <CardinalFang> "What if the record_id is not None and the data['_id']is indeed None? we could try to put in the db {'_id':None} which will raise an exception."
[16:33] <mandel> CardinalFang, yes, that
[16:33] <mandel> so record_id is None so we do not get in the if statement and therefore we do not check if _id is None
[16:34] <mandel> should the exception be raised when putting the record or when creating the record
[16:34] <CardinalFang> mandel, since there is a way to update the record, after creation, raise error only at putting it.
[16:35] <mandel> ok, fair enough, I'll push the other if instead
[16:40] <mandel> CardinalFang: done, I'm done for the day, thanks for your help
[16:42] <CardinalFang> mandel, Thank you sir.  I hope to have attachments ready for you tomorrow morning.
[16:43] <mandel> CardinalFang: awesome, hopefully nicola finishes reviewing the other branch and I can start adding them to the contact class
[16:43] <mandel> have a good evening, adios
[17:09] <Goliath> Salve a tutti, ho sottoscritto il servizio sul sito ma tra le pagine non ho trovato da nessuna parte come aggiungere il mio pc a quelli da sincronizzare, qualcuno puo` aiutarmi? Grazie
[17:10] <dobey> vds: ^ decypher please? :)
[17:10] <vds> ciao Goliath
[17:10] <Goliath> vds: ciao
[17:11] <vds> Goliath: cosa hai fatto fin'ora?
[17:12] <Goliath> vds: Mi sono registrato sul sito di ubuntu one, ho avviato ubuntu one ma non sincronizza.
[17:12] <vds> Goliath: come hai avviato ubuntuone?
[17:13] <vds> dal menu` internet?
[17:13] <Goliath> vds: Applicazioni -> Internet -> UbuntuOne
[17:13] <vds> Goliath: vedi l'applet nel pannello?
[17:13] <Goliath> vds: Il punto e` che sul sito non trovo come autenticare il mio pc alla sincronizzazione
[17:13] <Goliath> vds: si
[17:14] <vds> Goliath: clicka con il destro e seleziona go to web
[17:14] <Goliath> vds:ok
[17:15] <Goliath> vds:mi chiede di loggarmi
[17:15] <vds> Goliath: ok fai il login
[17:15] <Goliath> vds:fatto
[17:16] <Goliath> vds: ok sono su: https://one.ubuntu.com/files/#path=/My%20Files
[17:16] <vds> Goliath: e non ti ha chiesto prima di aggiungere il computer?
[17:16] <vds> direi di no :)
[17:16] <Goliath> no
[17:16] <Goliath> :-)
[17:17] <Goliath> vds: Per caso, non e` che potresti mandarmi il link della pagina in cui lo chiede
[17:17] <vds> Goliath: vai su account
[17:17] <vds> vedi la tab account?
[17:17] <Goliath> vds: done
[17:18] <vds> Goliath: aggiunto?
[17:18] <Goliath> vds: no
[17:18] <Goliath> vds: ho il link che mi manda alla pagina per vedere quali macchine possono loggarsi
[17:19] <Goliath> vds: ma quando arrivo li, mi dice che devo andare a guardare l'help
[17:20] <Goliath> vds:e l'help mi rimanda al link che ti ho gia` inviato
[17:20] <vds> jblount: when you're supposed to been asked to add a computer?
[17:20] <vds> jblount: and where to go if you want to register a new machine?
[17:20] <vds> dobey: ^^ do you know?
[17:22] <dobey> it's the first thing that's supposed to happen when you run the applet
[17:22] <Goliath> dobey: I can tell you that it is not happened to me
[17:22] <dobey> it also happens when you click "Connect" on the applet's menu, if you've not got a token in the keyring
[17:22] <vds> dobey: yes, but what to do if it doesn't happen?
[17:22] <dobey> vds: file a bug?
[17:23] <vds> dobey: :)
[17:23] <dobey> (right click on applet and choose "Report a Problem")
[17:23] <vds> dobey: that's the second thing I guess :)
[17:23] <jblount> vds: Clicking connect is what dobey always tells me.
[17:23] <dobey> vds: debug and figure out why it's failing
[17:23] <vds> Goliath: se apri la cartella Ubuntu One in alto a destra hai connect
[17:23] <vds> Goliath: prova a premere li
[17:24] <Goliath> vds: si, gia` fatto, tenta di connettersi all'infinito e basta
[17:24] <dobey> vds: if it's not working, there should be an error dialog popping up. if there isn't an error dialog, then there is something new wrong and i have no idea what it is exactly :)
[17:25] <Goliath> jblount: where i can find log files?
[17:25] <vds> Goliath: .cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log
[17:25] <dobey> syncdaemon.log is probably irrelevant
[17:25] <dobey> oauth-login.log is more useful
[17:26] <vds> Goliath: are you using karmic?
[17:28] <Goliath> vds: yes karmic
[17:29] <Goliath> dobey: oauth-login says: Avvio client Ubuntu One versione 1.0.2
[17:29] <Goliath> Unable to contact NetworkManager
[17:30] <vds> Goliath: preferisci continuare in inglese o in italiano?
[17:30] <Goliath> dobey: the first line only says: starting client
[17:30] <Goliath> vds: as you want
[17:30] <dobey> right
[17:30] <vds> Goliath: do you have NetworkManager intalled on your machine
[17:30] <vds> ?
[17:30] <Goliath> vds: certo se dobbiamo parlare con dobey forse conviene proseguire in inglese
[17:30] <dobey> your problem is that you're not using networkmanager, and there is a bug that is fixed, but not backported to karmic yet
[17:31] <dobey> the beta PPA packages have the fix though
[17:31] <Goliath> dobey: then what i must do?
[17:32] <Goliath> vds: but networkmanager isn't installed by default in karmic?
[17:32] <dobey> upgrade to the "unstable" beta PPA packages, or wait for an update to Karmic
[17:32] <dobey> network manager is installed/used by default in karmic, yes
[17:32] <vds> Goliath: unless you removed it, networkmanager is there by default
[17:33] <dobey> i must go get lunch, be back in a bit
[17:33] <rtgz> joshuahoover, may I start spamming about the ubuntuone-client-diagnose over here?
[17:33] <joshuahoover> rtgz: sure :)
[17:33] <rtgz> he he he
[17:34] <Goliath> vds: damn you are right, I've uninstalled netman!
[17:34] <Goliath> vds: but i don't remember y i did it!
[17:34] <Goliath> :-)
[17:34] <rtgz> Introducing Ubuntu One Client Diagnostic script that is aimed to provide professional ubuntuone client diagnostic without the need of the developers!
[17:35] <vds> Goliath: so you can choose whether to re-install NM or use the packages in dobey PPA
[17:35] <Goliath> vds-dobey: can you wait till i reboot? I just reinstalled NM
[17:35] <rtgz> The script is documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RomanYepishev/UbuntuOne/Diagnostics and provides support to detect most common errors for U1 installations
[17:36] <vds> Goliath: sure
[17:36] <Goliath> vds: I'll be back ;-)
[17:37] <rtgz> e.g. missing Network Manager, Capabilities mismatch error, Turkish locale error (yes, i switched to turkish locale to test this), Error with applet not being able to connect automatically, Protocol version error with throttling enabled, Invalid UTF characters in filenames (AND it gives you the names for all the files and directories that needs your attention)...
[17:38] <rtgz> The trunk version of the script is available at http://ubuntuone-client-diagnose.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ubuntuone-client-diagnose.py
[17:38] <rtgz> Just download it and give it a try: python ubuntuone-client-diagnose.py
[17:39] <rtgz> Legal copy: this is an alpha version, not all test cases are covered. Written by long-time Perl programmer, code revised by verterok (no "WTF?" code found)

[17:45] <Goliath> I'm back
[17:45] <Goliath> ...and...
[17:45] <Goliath> IT WORKS!!!
[17:45] <Goliath> thanks a lot!!
[17:45] <Goliath> vds: Grazie mille
[17:46] <vds> Goliath: prego!
[17:46] <Goliath> vds: purtroppo devo scappare, ciao e ancora grazie
[17:46] <Goliath> bye bye
[17:46] <vds> Goliath: bye :)
[17:46] <vds> too late
[17:49] <CardinalFang> rodrigo_, What's with Bug#417800?  Surely not "fix released".  Either "Invalid", dup, or "Needs information".
[17:49] <CardinalFang> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/desktopcouch/+bug/417800
[17:50] <CardinalFang> rodrigo_, When I see this later when making the next release, I will wonder what code we released to fix it.
[18:19] <dobey> rtgz: what is the "turkish locale problem" exactly?
[18:24] <urbanape> afternoon, all
[18:25] <urbanape> Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving (who's into such things)
[18:25] <dobey> hey urbanape
[18:25] <CardinalFang> urbanape, j0.
[18:28] <rtgz> dobey, bug #467397
[18:30] <rtgz> dobey, however this is python bug but it affects ubuntuone since it does not show any user-meaningful error, just silently fails
[18:32] <CardinalFang> That bug is hilarious.
[18:34] <dobey> hrmm
[18:35] <dobey> hrmmph
[18:36] <rtgz> at first I thought that ROUND_CEiLiNG is somehow misspelled but it turns out to be the exact message for KeyError :)
[18:39] <dobey> another reason to oust twisted
[18:40] <CardinalFang> dobey, It's "decimal" that is trying to be too clever.
[18:40] <CardinalFang> rtgz, we can't fix that.  What do you think the error message should be?
[18:40] <dobey> CardinalFang: yes, but we're getting the error because twisted web server bits are doing some funky things
[18:41] <dobey> CardinalFang: we can't forward the error message to the client's error handler, unfortunately
[18:41] <rtgz> CardinalFang, actually we can work around it, since it makes everyone with tr_* locale unable to use ubuntuone
[18:42] <CardinalFang> rtgz, what's the work around?  Unsetting the locale?
[18:42] <dobey> switching away from using twisted in the client applet and oauthdesktop will solve this, and a few other problems
[18:43] <dobey> unless we decide to use the decimel module for some insane reason
[18:43] <rtgz> CardinalFang, the most non-intrusive solution is to force setting the locale in .desktop file for ubuntuone-client-applet.
[18:43] <dobey> rtgz: that's more intrusive, since translations would break for everyone not using english :)
[18:43] <rtgz> i don't like this but it is better than a cloud with exclamation mark for all Turkey
[18:44] <dobey> cloud with ! doesn't mean what you think it means
[18:44] <rtgz> dobey, yep, broken in any way
[18:44] <CardinalFang> rtgz, that's bad.  When FR users get "5.123 MB used", is that 5 MB or 5 GB?  I expect 5.  They expect 5000.
[18:44] <dobey> hard drive with cloud with ! does mean what you think it means, though
[18:45] <rtgz> dobey, okay, not only !, but it just does not sync the files, which is an intended behavior. It does not get to couchdb/ubuntuone pairing since it crashes on startup...
[18:46] <dobey> rtgz: i know it doesn't work in that case
[18:46] <rtgz> the cloud just sits there, attracts attention and any "I SAID CONNECT!" requests are silently failing
[18:46] <dobey> rtgz: but i was alluding to the fact that the icon in the Humanity theme isn't really very accurate of what is going on (or not going on as it may be)
[18:47] <dobey> joshuahoover: what's the canonical bug # for the "add back timestamps" issue? :)
[18:48] <CardinalFang> rtgz, dobey, TR users are going to have lots of problems in everything until Python is fixed.  Anything that does exact, non-2s-complement math is going to break.
[18:49] <rtgz> dobey, yep, it is either fluffy cloud (everybody is happy) or a cloud with exclamation mark telling you that there is something... not connected, broken...
[18:49] <rtgz> dobey, are you talking about oauth-login.log?
[18:49] <dobey> rtgz: the line-art cloud with ! only means "disconnected"
[18:49] <dobey> rtgz: the error icon in Humanity is actually the two sync arrows with a ! in the middle
[18:50] <dobey> rtgz: for timestamps bug #, yes
[18:50] <rtgz> dobey, yes, true. sorry
[18:50] <rtgz> dobey, part of bug #488425
[18:50] <dobey> i'm trying to get some fixes backported, so that we can get some SRU loving
[18:51] <dobey> rtgz: no there was another bug specifically about missing timestamps
[18:51] <dobey> well, there were multiple other bugs, because joshuahoover filed the same one at least twice :)
[18:52] <rtgz> dobey, bug #473314
[18:52] <rtgz> dobey, btw, according to the early logs for u1 client the timestamps were there and disappeared later  :)
[18:53]  * dobey dupes that
[18:54] <dobey> rtgz: yes, they were missing for a bit when we squelched some of the other log messages and tweaked the oauthdesktop logging stuff to do rotation
[18:54] <dobey> rtgz: but they are fixed in trunk (and the beta/nightlies PPA packages of 1.1)
[18:57] <rtgz> CardinalFang, I finally understood the limitations of such approach for locale setting, I am using en_US locale only so the delimiters are common. Not an option. If it does not break in ubuntuone then it will break elsewhere :(
[18:58] <CardinalFang> Sad.  I've visited a few places, and Istanbul is by far my favorite walking-around city.
[19:00] <dobey> Not Constantinople?

[19:01] <CardinalFang> Every girl in Constantinople lives in Istanbul (not Constantinople), so if you've a date in Constantinople, she'll be waiting in Istanbul.
[19:02] <dobey> i don't think those are the lyrics to that song
[19:03] <dobey> haha
[19:04] <dobey> Magellan GPS is advertising some OneTouch technology
[19:04] <CardinalFang> Explain Plz.
[19:04] <dobey> ah the lyrics are mostly right i guess
[19:04] <dobey> s/girl/gal/
[19:05] <CardinalFang> No karaoke for me!
[19:13] <statik> Chipaca, i missed the standup meeting today, did it get moved?
[19:14] <dobey> statik: i think it was sort of supplanted by the desktop+ team meeting we had today?
[19:14] <CardinalFang> statik, we had a different team meeting an hour before and it spanned over the normal time.
[19:14] <statik> ah, that explains it. voice call or something?
[19:15] <CardinalFang> IRC.  Other server, #desktop+
[19:16] <Chipaca> hm, I coudl've done it in freenode
[19:16] <dobey> next time
[19:17] <statik> thanks! I was just curious
[19:18] <dobey> i really really really wish loggerhead and bzr had wasy to easily view revprops
[19:29] <rtgz> Please forgive my ignorance, but what is "Desktop+" ?
[19:32] <jblount> rtgz: One of the three teams that Canonical employees working on Ubuntu One are split into.
[19:32] <jblount> rtgz: Foundations+ Ops+ and Desktop+
[19:33] <jblount> rtgz: Desktop+ deals with "stuff users see" like client software and websites. Chipaca is our fearless leader.
[19:34] <Chipaca> jblount: fear*some*
[19:34] <rtgz> jblount, ah, then it started to make sense to me, re: "Desktop+ standup meeting" :)
[19:35] <CardinalFang> Chipaca, Fear*ed*.
[20:52] <rtgz> dobey, may i poke you about bug #472287?
[20:53] <dobey> i guess
[20:55] <dobey> rtgz: not sure i'll be able to answer anything though, as i'm not sure how to reproduce the issue exactly
[20:55] <rtgz> dobey, I had this bug triggered a while ago after filling up the UbuntuOne directory in large chunks, like 100 audio files at a time, then 50 etc. syncdaemon was happily syncing and then applet told me that the files are all synced. Syncdaemon was not performing any activities, so I checked the metadata and it turned up that 20 files were still missing
[20:55] <rtgz> dobey, "a while ago" means "last week" in this context
[20:55] <dobey> rtgz: were they still syncing, or just ignored?
[20:56] <dobey> if they were just ignored, i'm guessing it's a different issue
[20:56] <rtgz> dobey, they were completely ignored, client connect/disconnect did not trigger their update, syncdaemon restart made it see the files again and it finished syncing
[20:57] <dobey> rtgz: that is a separate issue
[20:57] <rtgz> dobey, ok
[20:57] <dobey> rtgz: this issue is that syncdaemon is apparently still syncing things after the client thought stuff was done


[18:27] <rbelem> ian_brasil, ping
[18:27] <ian_brasil> ian_brasil, pong
[18:27] <ian_brasil> :0 rbelem pong
[18:29] <rbelem> ian_brasil, lets discuss about the name
[18:30] <ian_brasil> ok..i will work on the source package list while we are doing that
[18:30] <ian_brasil> i dont like MID too much
[18:30] <rbelem> ian_brasil, i was thinking something like "fuels the device"
[18:30] <ian_brasil> what lool said yesterday makes sense about devices
[18:31] <rbelem> yep
[18:31] <ian_brasil> sounds good to me..maybe we just need like 1 word
[18:31] <rbelem> ian_brasil, one small word
[18:32]  * ian_brasil puts fuels the device into google
[18:33] <rbelem> ian_brasil, something like eletric, electron
[18:33] <rbelem> ian_brasil, hum?
[18:33] <ian_brasil> electric sounds cool
[18:34] <rbelem> ian_brasil, spin?
[18:34] <ian_brasil> ha ha...swerve
[18:34] <rbelem> ian_brasil, swerve?
[18:34] <ian_brasil> desvio
[18:35] <ian_brasil> spin sounds pretty good too
[18:36] <rbelem> ian_brasil, i liked spin
[18:37] <ian_brasil> me too..that sounds cool rbelem
[18:37] <rbelem> ian_brasil, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spin
[18:39] <ian_brasil> spin is a fundamental characteristic property of elementary particles
[18:39] <ian_brasil> nice!
[18:39] <rbelem> lool, what do you think about ubuntu-spin-remix?
[18:39] <rbelem> ian_brasil, cool!
[18:41] <ian_brasil> rbelem, for me that name is ok..if we go with that can you set the team and ppa up
[18:42] <rbelem> ian_brasil, let's wait for lool
[18:43] <ian_brasil> ok
[18:45] <rbelem> ian_brasil, let's continue our search
[18:47] <ian_brasil> rbelem, i am doing that now
[18:52] <ian_brasil> rbelem, should i pull hildon desktop from debian ..it is 1:2.0.19 and the version in ubuntu is 1:2.0.11
[18:54] <rbelem> ian_brasil, add a column with debian version
[18:55] <ian_brasil> rbelem, ok
[18:55] <rbelem> ian_brasil, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/yare
[18:56] <ian_brasil> huh?
[19:00] <rbelem> ian_brasil, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/swiftness
[19:02] <ian_brasil> rbelem, choosing something like this is not a good idea IMO
[19:02] <rbelem> eheheh
[19:03] <ian_brasil> if the remix is not that swift then lots of fun can be had by people!
[19:03] <ian_brasil> i like spin or spun or span
[19:05] <ian_brasil> or spinning , whirling ..something like that
[19:09] <rbelem> ian_brasil, something like Hitchhiking
[19:09] <rbelem> ian_brasil, what do you think?
[19:10] <dereks>  /topic
[19:10] <ian_brasil> rbelem, nice..hitchiking..ha ha
[19:13] <rbelem> ian_brasil, "On the Road"
[19:14] <rbelem> ian_brasil, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ride
[19:14] <ian_brasil> i called the liferea port 'Frothing' - feed reading on the hoof
[19:28] <rbelem> eheheh
[20:40] <ian_brasil> rbelem, i updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/UbuntuMIDRemix
[21:31] <lool> ian_brasil: Hey
[21:32] <ian_brasil> lool, hi
[21:32] <lool> ian_brasil: spin is a bit problematic because it's analog in meaning to flavour
[21:32] <lool> ian_brasil: We often say "the moblin spin"
[21:32] <ian_brasil> ah ok
[21:33] <lool> Perhaps you should consider a symbolic name which has no actual meaning
[21:33] <lool> Or take a cheese name
[21:33] <lool> Ubuntu Roquefort Remix
[21:33] <lool> ian_brasil: I feel bad for taking part in the project name discussion
[21:33] <ian_brasil> only a french person could think of that ;)
[21:34] <lool> Bah you could name it after a cow if you like  :-)
[21:34] <ian_brasil> rbelem is in a meeting now so i will talk with him..i quite like the idea of some name without meaning
[21:35] <lool> For instance Mer has nothing to do with tablets
[21:36] <lool> ian_brasil: I think it would help a lot if you guys would write down the actual goals of the project you're creating
[21:36] <lool> What does it solve over the existing projects, why is it there, what's the motivation, philosophy etc. etc.
[21:37] <ian_brasil> yes we will..one big one is to be free desktop compliant
[21:38] <ian_brasil> personally remove all the hard coded nastyness in the theming would be awesome
[21:38] <lool> These are technical goals
[21:38] <lool> Just like building an image
[21:39] <lool> ian_brasil: For instance you could have for a goal to bring the latest Maemo technologies to tablet users basing on Ubuntu software
[21:39] <lool> Or creating a demonstration and development environment for tablet users
[21:40] <lool> Or enabling programmers to develop Maemo apps under Ubuntu
[21:40] <lool> Or all of that
[21:40] <lool> You need a scope so to speak   :-)
[21:49] <ian_brasil> ok i will do that..it will be a small scope