[00:13] <chris4585> got on then had to do some work
[00:14] <chris4585> lol @ earlier
[02:02] <wrst> chris4585: :)
[02:09] <chris4585> wrst, did vychune get everything sorted out? lol
[02:09] <wrst> i don't know i was having one of them days at work so wasn't able to spend as much time as i wanted
[02:10] <wrst> i would suggest people really get their passwords straight !
[03:03] <chris4585> ah, well I'm glad I tried to help, I thought I was butting into you helping
[03:50] <chris4585> I didn't feel like I was doing a great job because I wasn't too clear, I figured vychune could sort it out if pointed in the right direction
[10:52] <wrst> chris4585: yep I mean google has all the answers to that problem :)
[10:53] <chris4585> pretty much
[12:05] <wrst> the great google always does it seems
[12:50] <chris4585> indeed, well time for sleep, later wrst
[17:47] <xTEMPLARx> ALL RIGHT
[17:47] <xTEMPLARx> straighten up in here
[17:48] <xTEMPLARx> Mom's comin' over and this place is a pig sty
[17:54] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: so you decide to blow in for your yearly look-see? :P
[17:54] <xTEMPLARx> it was on my schedule
[17:54] <wrst> about time!
[17:54] <xTEMPLARx> its been so long since I've authed, nickserv forgot my registration :((
[17:54] <xTEMPLARx> :D
[17:54] <wrst> finally someone below me alphabetically in the nick list
[17:55] <wrst> and i though all you had resigned to were random facebook post xTEMPLARx
[17:55] <xTEMPLARx> if there is someone out there using facebook to only wait on my sporadic posts, they'd abandon facebook as a dead website :D
[17:56] <wrst> i post about 3 times a year, once a quarter and i usually miss a quarter
[18:02] <xTEMPLARx> 'tis good to skip a quarter here and there
[18:03] <xTEMPLARx> how's that little one treating you, wrst?
[18:03] <xTEMPLARx> sleeping soundly thru the night yet?
[18:03] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: has been for  a while actually
[18:03] <wrst> its very nice
[18:04] <wrst> but she has to be in the bed with us is the only drawback but for a good night's sleep whatever
[18:14] <wrst> oh Unit193 you are back... :P
[18:14] <Unit193> Yep, lost USB support again, really ticks me off...
[18:15] <wrst> usb wifi dongly thingy?
[18:18] <xTEMPx> Whee
[18:21] <wrst> wb xTEMPLARx or xTEMPx what???
[18:21] <wrst> there are two??? why??? oh the humanity!!
[18:21] <xTEMPx> It's a conspiracy, I think
[18:21] <xTEMPx> <--- on the iPad in a meeting
[18:21] <Unit193> USB ethernet thingy.
[18:23] <wrst> oh hmm Unit193 i thought those worked fairly well... and I have to ask the question pci ethernet cards.. well they practically give them away
[18:27] <Unit193> The device isn't the problem, the computer lost support for USB devices.  I already have/had a USB card, but I may have a PCI and that'd be worth more I'd think in this case, but I was planning on swapping out that computer for a newer one (but still old)
[18:28]  * wrst passes the hat for the Unit193 computer fund
[18:31] <Unit193> Heh. :P
[18:36]  * xTEMPx looks around cautiously...
[18:36] <xTEMPx>  /quit
[18:39] <Unit193> Nono, that looks a bit off, pull the router network cable!
[18:48] <xTEMPLARx> lol
[18:48] <xTEMPLARx> i typed /quit
[18:48] <xTEMPLARx> and it didn't work
[18:48] <xTEMPLARx> crazy iOS
[18:51] <Unit193> You had a space.
[18:51] <xTEMPLARx> hrmmm
[18:51] <xTEMPLARx> you may be onto something there
[18:52] <xTEMPLARx> let's try again
[18:52] <xTEMPLARx> yup
[18:52] <xTEMPLARx> good eye
[18:53] <Unit193> Seen it many a time, bad part is when it is  /msg nickserv identify unit193 littleponiesarescary
[18:53] <xTEMPLARx> rofl
[18:53] <xTEMPLARx> indeed :D
[19:56] <xTEMPLARx> I need to get re-cloaked
[20:00] <Unit193> xTEMPLARx: You a Ubuntu member?  If not, you'll want to ask in #freenode rather than -irc.
[20:00] <xTEMPLARx> I am
[20:00] <xTEMPLARx> a member that is
[20:01] <Unit193> Coolio.
[20:03] <xTEMPLARx> haha didn't notice you were in there too ;)
[20:04] <Unit193> I'm in quite a few channels. :P
[20:08]  * Unit193 watches for xTEMPLARx to join #freenode... :D
[20:09] <xTEMPLARx> lol
[20:10] <xTEMPLARx> don't make me dive back down below periscope depth
[20:10] <Unit193> Na, that's pretty basic and simple: "Howdy, I'd like an unaffiliated cloak please" ;)
[20:11] <xTEMPLARx> i did a /stats p to find some helpful people :D
[20:12] <netritious> sup xTEMPLARx! long time no see
[20:12] <xTEMPLARx> Heya sir!  How are those DW's treating ya?
[20:12] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: does this mean you are going to stick around for a while or just disappear again? :P
[20:12] <xTEMPLARx> wrst:  you just never know!
[20:12] <xTEMPLARx> i'm a gypsy spirit
[20:12] <xTEMPLARx> or else just easily distracted by life
[20:13] <xTEMPLARx> one of the two
[20:13] <wrst> well xTEMPLARx any new musical projects ?
[20:13] <xTEMPLARx> not really.  We've had a few graduate out of our youth band, so I"m back on bass where I belong
[20:13] <Unit193> xTEMPLARx: Great!
[20:13] <netritious> xTEMPLARx: pretty good! they sound awesome
[20:15] <xTEMPLARx> netritious:  good to hear :D  But then, they're DWs, they oughta sound good ;)
[20:16] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: isn't bass for guitar players who have fat fingers? :P
[20:17] <xTEMPLARx> LONG fingers... its LONG fingers
[20:17] <netritious> true xTEMPLARx
[20:17] <wrst> well i have to try to play guitar with fat short fingers xTEMPLARx i think i am a bass player in training
[20:17] <netritious> hello wrst, Unit193
[20:17] <xTEMPLARx> if you don't look like you're throwin' gang signs while you're playing bass, you're not playing properly :D
[20:17] <wrst> howdy netritious
[20:17] <wrst> ha ha xTEMPLARx
[20:18] <xTEMPLARx> bass is one of the few instruments I can just play without thinking about it too much
[20:18] <xTEMPLARx> but I suppose i need more practice across the board
[20:18] <xTEMPLARx> I've been hanging out on TDPRI here lately, so I'm trying my hand at building a telecaster
[20:19] <Unit193> Howdy netritious.
[20:27] <netritious> What has everyone been up to lately?
[20:28] <netritious> xTEMPLARx: building a telecaster? As in, you can buy a kit to make your own?
[20:29] <wrst> cool xTEMPLARx i have thought about building a tele also
[20:29] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: we will have to excuse netritious he is into that heavy "devil" music :D
[20:29] <netritious> haha \m/
[20:29] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: ever had a G&L?
[20:30] <netritious> my guitarist plays Washburn ;)
[20:31] <netritious> I've played one wrst...didn't like the way the frets...they kind of protruded outwards off the neck
[20:31] <wrst> netritious: you can buy bodies, necks etc from ebay all day long or you can buy the blanks or the actual bodies just depends on how much work you want to do
[20:31] <netritious> ah cool
[20:32] <wrst> hmm interesting netritious i have considered one i have a nice little mexican strat that's actually a decent guitar but it is how shall i say not the manliest color of blue
[20:33] <netritious> lol
[20:33] <wrst> i have considered going for a tele, or refinishing that one
[20:34] <netritious> I like strat style guitars. I have a Dean, Washburn Extended Cutaway, and a Samick
[20:34] <wrst> they are just a little thin feeling for my taste
[20:34] <netritious> strats?
[20:35] <wrst> yes but i prefer D size and jumbo acoustics and only play electric when no one else is around to keep me from it :)
[20:35] <xTEMPLARx> netritious:  no kits involved... unless you consider raw lumber and power tools a kit :D
[20:35] <netritious> nice
[20:35] <wrst> but netritious i prefer how a les paul style guitar feels but i like the tone of a tele better
[20:36] <xTEMPLARx> tele's are pretty raw
[20:36] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: really you are going to start out with a blank and go for it?
[20:36] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: yep
[20:36] <xTEMPLARx> if by blank, you mean boards
[20:36] <xTEMPLARx> lol
[20:36] <wrst> oh so you are really going all the way
[20:36] <xTEMPLARx> my first neck may actually be in log form at the moment
[20:36] <wrst> what are you using?
[20:36] <wrst> ash body/ maple neck?
[20:36] <xTEMPLARx> probably gonna stick with pine for the first couple of bodies till I get my system down and stop making mistakes
[20:36] <xTEMPLARx> first neck will likely be walnut
[20:37] <wrst> oh I love me some walnut
[20:37] <xTEMPLARx> i have access to a log and a sawmill and a kiln
[20:37] <xTEMPLARx> so
[20:37] <wrst> that's nice
[20:37] <wrst> i have coveted soem walnut taylors i've seen before they may sound like poo but look great
[20:37] <xTEMPLARx> I'm inheriting all of my dad's workshop and tools
[20:37] <xTEMPLARx> so I've been going over and taking mental inventory
[20:38] <xTEMPLARx> and so far, he is only missing one router bit of having everything I need
[20:38] <xTEMPLARx> minus wood that is
[20:38] <wrst> cool xTEMPLARx you will have to teach a class
[20:38] <xTEMPLARx> but he probably has that too
[20:38] <xTEMPLARx> just gotta dig it all out
[20:38] <xTEMPLARx> the sawmill, walnut log and kiln are his too
[20:38] <netritious> wow that's a pretty nice inheritence
[20:38] <xTEMPLARx> the kiln is on the side of the workshop
[20:39] <xTEMPLARx> net:  yeah my dad's in his 70s and has been collecting tools his entire life
[20:39] <xTEMPLARx> so on top of the woodworking equipment, there are also plenty of other tools for automotive, welding, etc
[20:39] <netritious> sounds like my dad, just my dad is all about engines and stuff
[20:39] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: i have looked at some acoustice guitar kits and that's just beyond my skill by a long shot
[20:39] <xTEMPLARx> wrst:  acoustics are definitely a bit outside of my comfort zone
[20:40] <xTEMPLARx> I feel better about my chances with bolt-neck electrics
[20:40] <xTEMPLARx> but hopefully that'll change with experience
[20:40] <wrst> if i did an acoustic it would be a bolt neck
[20:40] <xTEMPLARx> my acoustic I play now is a bolt neck
[20:40] <wrst> what type xTEMPLARx?
[20:40] <xTEMPLARx> I'll link it
[20:41] <xTEMPLARx> http://www.univox.org/pics/guitars/auditorium.jpg
[20:41] <xTEMPLARx> its a smallish size, but once I got it set up nicely it projects well
[20:41] <xTEMPLARx> no electronics though
[20:42] <wrst> but you have a woodworking shope you can add that
[20:42] <xTEMPLARx> dunno if I would even try on this guitar
[20:42] <wrst> i have a breedlove that has a bolt on neck... i think
[20:42] <xTEMPLARx> it doesn't have a standard bridge on it
[20:42] <xTEMPLARx> its adjustable like a les paul's
[20:43] <xTEMPLARx> has two thumbscrews to raise the bridge up and down
[20:43] <xTEMPLARx> i.e., no under-bridge pickup for me :(
[20:43] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: look at an iBeam pickup they are pretty sweet
[20:43] <xTEMPLARx> might be able to find something that just attaches under the bridge to the wood inside the guitar
[20:44] <xTEMPLARx> yeah just like that
[20:44] <xTEMPLARx> you played one with this installed yet?
[20:44] <xTEMPLARx> one thing I love about those kits are the small dials just inside the soundhole
[20:45] <xTEMPLARx> keeps it clean-looking
[20:45] <xTEMPLARx> I wonder how it would fair with a soundhole cover, though
[20:45] <xTEMPLARx> hrm
[20:45] <Juzzy> http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120801/WILLIAMSON01/120801010/2275/RSS05?nclick_check=1
[20:46] <xTEMPLARx> and its quite affordable... hmmm
[20:46] <xTEMPLARx> I tried to go to Chick Fil A today, and had to give it up because I wouldnt' have had food by the time my lunch hour was over
[20:46] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: yes i had a Huss and Dalton DM with one, of coruse that guitar is pretty amazing by itself but that pickup was great, only issue was tendency to feedback but a guitar like that will probably have some issues with anything
[20:47] <xTEMPLARx> wrst:  I hear ya... any guitar that resonates like it should would have that problem.  Funny, they claim it resists feedback... :D  OH well.  Guess it'd still be necessary to figure out a way to mount a soundhole cover
[20:48] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: for this guitar i thought it was fine but there was a tendency to feedback because you are amplifying not so much the string vibrations like an under saddle piezo but you are actually getting the body vibrating more
[20:49] <netritious> you guys like neck through or bolt on?
[20:49] <wrst> netritious:  i have only played one neck through bass, it was awesome!
[20:49] <xTEMPLARx> neck throughs and set-necks have their place
[20:50] <xTEMPLARx> but a well-made bolt-on has no issues inherent to the neck joint
[20:50] <netritious> yeah my washburn is neck through, though the neck is on the thin side for my tastes.
[20:50] <wrst> my only concern on a neck through long term would be that there's not really any adjustment?
[20:50] <xTEMPLARx> my 12-string 335 copy is a bolt-neck, and it sustains and projects for days
[20:50] <xTEMPLARx> wrst:  you still have a truss rod in a set neck or neck-through
[20:50] <netritious> there's still a truss rod (spelling?) in mine at least
[20:51] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: but with a say dovetail neck joint you eventually have the need to reset the neck will that ever be an issue in a neck through?
[20:51] <xTEMPLARx> and I've read that a truss rod really isn't necessary on a properly-built instrument, provided you're not a touring musician
[20:52] <netritious> my brother set the action and adjusted mine...I don't know what to do with a truss rod myself
[20:52] <xTEMPLARx> wrst:  It would depend on the instrument and how it's been cared for if it NEEDS a re-set
[20:52] <netritious> "righty tighty, lefty lucy" is all I know about it lol
[20:52] <xTEMPLARx> usually they need a reset if the joint's broken loose or has been damaged somehow
[20:52] <xTEMPLARx> but at least its an option!
[20:52] <xTEMPLARx> with a neck-thru, not so much
[20:52] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: if you have a 1940's martin, it has needed a neck reset to keep it playable
[20:53] <xTEMPLARx> well that's an acoustic
[20:53] <wrst> just from the pull of the strings over the years
[20:53] <xTEMPLARx> you're attaching a baseball bat to the side of a thin wooden box
[20:53] <xTEMPLARx> I'm thinking in terms of electrics
[20:53] <xTEMPLARx> no such thing as a neck-thru acoustic, to my knowledge :D
[20:53] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: well me too a bass has a lot of string tension
[20:53] <xTEMPLARx> have you seen the acoustic jazz boxes that have the floating neck?
[20:53] <wrst> i would think the same principles would apply?
[20:54] <wrst> yes
[20:54] <xTEMPLARx> detachable for travel
[20:54] <xTEMPLARx> very nice looking
[20:54]  * wrst isn't good enough to play jazz
[20:54] <xTEMPLARx> lol
[20:54] <xTEMPLARx> <---- same applies to this guy
[20:54] <wrst> jazz uses all those chords with funny names
[20:54]  * wrst is diminished by jazz chords
[20:54] <xTEMPLARx> I call them "i mash my fingers this way, or this way, or sometimes THIS way"
[20:55] <wrst> i need 8 fingers and them to be attached to 3 hands to play jazz chords
[20:55] <xTEMPLARx> no matter how you scrunch your fingers on the fretboard, there's a name for that chord
[20:55] <xTEMPLARx> :D
[20:55] <wrst> exactly xTEMPLARx
[20:55] <wrst> netritious: who needs ubuntu we can talk music! ;)
[20:55] <xTEMPLARx> lol
[20:56] <xTEMPLARx> second wave of the storm's rolling into knoxville
[20:56] <xTEMPLARx> get to carry my bass out to the car in the rain... thankfully its in a hard case
[20:56] <xTEMPLARx> although I wouldn't accuse it of being watertight
[20:57] <wrst> no but they make a case for that i'm sure
[20:57] <xTEMPLARx> I'm sure they do, but mine's all vintage n stuff, and I don't have the money a replacement :D
[20:57] <xTEMPLARx> maybe if I can build a stinkin guitar or twelve, I could afford to buy one :D
[20:58] <xTEMPLARx> welp, time to pack up and head out
[20:58] <xTEMPLARx> chat ye later :)
[20:58] <wrst> later xTEMPLARx, try to come back in say another 5 years or so!
[20:58] <xTEMPLARx> lol will do ;)
[20:58] <xTEMPLARx> nite guys
[20:58] <wrst> netritious: i don't know what to think about these bums like xTEMPLARx do you? come in here chat up and then leave for years
[21:01] <netritious> lol
[21:01] <netritious> I don't mind
[21:02] <wrst> netritious: wish we could do something loco wise with ubuntu and its benefits to musicians
[21:02] <wrst> guess not so much ubuntu as opensource
[21:03] <netritious> well drum something up wrst! :D
[21:03] <wrst> i don't know what it will be but the thought just came in my head, but my head is an empty place so thoughts are free to hang around for a while
[21:03] <wrst> have you ever used ardour?
[21:03] <netritious> lol
[21:03] <netritious> no sure haven't wrst
[21:03] <netritious> brb
[21:04] <netritious> ^using how it should be uses btw
[21:04] <netritious> *used
[21:16] <netritious> back
[21:16] <Genphlux> Howdy
[21:17] <netritious> Howdy Genphlux...what's shakin'
[21:17] <wrst> hello Genphlux
[21:17] <Genphlux> Nada.  Worki
[21:17] <Genphlux> n
[21:18] <netritious> Genphlux: have you ever used DEFT? I know you're into BackTrack is why I ask
[21:19] <Genphlux> The forensics liveCD?
[21:19] <netritious> yeah
[21:19] <Genphlux> Nah I haven't
[21:19] <netritious> has some hack tools to
[21:21] <Genphlux> Nah I guess I should check it out
[21:24] <netritious> Just something else to add to the arsenal
[21:24] <netritious> I just found out about it today.
[21:25] <netritious> btw, did you get to see the demo of unlocking hotel doors?
[21:28] <Genphlux> No, it was crazy busy.  It was definitely the talk of the con though
[21:28] <Genphlux> brb
[21:30] <vychune> o/
[21:30] <netritious> hey there vychune
[21:30] <vychune> hey guys i have a question?
[21:30] <netritious> no
[21:30] <vychune> hey netritious
[21:30] <netritious> lol, just ask man
[21:30] <vychune> lol
[21:31] <vychune> does number ten (10) on this page look right to you? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Quickbooks%20Enterprise%20Data%20Server
[21:33] <netritious> What's wrong with it?
[21:34] <binarymutant> vychune, it's skipable
[21:34] <vychune>   * Add daemon.* -/var/log/qbdbfilemon.log
[21:34] <vychune> that line looked wrong
[21:35] <vychune> binarymutant: i would but it's for a client lol
[21:35] <vychune> or do i just put the touch line?
[21:35] <binarymutant> I wouldn't put it into the syslogs
[21:35] <binarymutant> brb
[21:36] <netritious> vychune: I haven't had a lot of success manipulating syslog configurations
[21:36] <vychune> or then
[21:37] <vychune> s/or/ok
[21:38] <netritious> albeit I was trying to setup a remote syslog server so that had it's own set of complexities, that and ubuntu somewhere along the way changed from syslogd to rsyslog
[21:38] <vychune> oh lol
[21:38] <netritious> whose instructions though are for 10.04, and rsyslog was already the default by then
[21:39] <netritious> personally I would add it and test
[21:39] <netritious> s/whose/those/
[21:40] <vychune> ok then
[21:41] <netritious> I guess you figured out how to reset the passwd? Didn't mean to leave you hanging yesterday, just was on the phone for what seemed like forever
[21:41] <vychune> syslog was a new file so i'll try rsyslog and yeah that wasnt the problem lol
[21:41] <vychune> the user should have been fredremmers
[21:42] <vychune> is was ferdremmers
[21:42] <vychune> s/it/is
[21:42] <netritious> oh lol...a misspelled user name, ouch
[21:42] <vychune> yeah pretty much lol'
[21:43] <netritious> brb in 10
[21:44] <vychune> dang ok
[21:57] <binarymutant> how do I get nvidia-glx to work on debian?
[21:58] <vychune> gtg guys fedex is calling
[21:58] <vychune> o/
[21:58] <binarymutant> later
[21:58] <vychune> THANKS SO MUCH!!!!
[21:59] <netritious> back
[22:38] <wrst> wb netritious :)
[22:40] <binarymutant> finally
[23:29] <xTEMPx> Whee!
[23:29] <xTEMPx> Works on the iPhone too
[23:46] <netritious> thx wrst
[23:46] <netritious> binarymutant: did you get it figured out?
[23:46] <binarymutant> netritious, there was an update that fixed my problem
[23:49] <netritious> awesome. are you using sid or squeeze repos?
[23:50] <binarymutant> sid
[23:51] <binarymutant> and for some reason I've been put onto an rt&pae kernel instead of vanilla
[23:51] <netritious> rt?
[23:51] <binarymutant> real time
[23:51] <netritious> huh. how much ram does the system have?
[23:51] <binarymutant> like 2 gb
[23:51] <binarymutant> not enough for pae
[23:52] <netritious> exactly. that's weird.
[23:52] <binarymutant> ikr
[23:52] <netritious> I guess that's what you get when you use sid? :D
[23:52] <binarymutant> lol maybe
[23:58] <binarymutant> it's good to know I have the same nvidia problem on debian and ubuntu as I did with arch http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=611452


[00:02] <[reed]> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/02/09/is-canonical-becoming-the-new-microsoft/
[00:02] <[reed]> "Next comes dumping GIMP, OOo and other much-loved applications from the default installation of versions of the forthcoming distribution."
[00:02] <[reed]> really?
[00:02] <[reed]> I hadn't heard that
[00:02] <micahg> [reed]: gimp won't be on teh regular cd and OOo won't be on the netbook CD from what I heard
[00:03] <micahg> but both are installable
[00:03] <[reed]> interesting
[00:03] <micahg> [reed]: it's a matter of space for gimp and usage for netbooks
[00:08] <asac> [reed]: i am not really sure for UNE in general, but for arm we try to create a more lightweight image of une
[00:08] <asac> so we drop ooo for sure
[00:08] <asac> and try to come up with some weboffice integration by default
[00:08] <[reed]> sure
[00:08] <asac> you can still install everything
[00:08] <asac> i think the idea for UNE in general came late and was born by what we do on arm somewhat
[00:09] <asac> i will have a call on that tomorow with the stakeholders
[00:25] <asac> fta: why did we go to 5.x for chromium?
[00:25] <asac> was there ever a stable 4 release?
[00:26] <asac> oh it failed everywhere
[00:35] <mbana> im following the emails asac.  so a fix isn't coming soon i take it
[00:36] <micahg> mbana: meeting on Thursday to discuss goals
[01:43] <LLStarks> asac, the font hinting bug you referenced is probably irrelevant.
[01:43] <LLStarks> this is 3.6 we are talking about
[01:43] <LLStarks> 3.6 in the repos. 3.6 in the umd.
[01:44] <LLStarks> no cairo hinting whatsoever
[01:45] <LLStarks> *subpixel hinting
[01:45] <LLStarks> bug 512615
[01:46] <LLStarks> that's the one i'm talking about
[01:52] <micahg> asac: did you upload ff to lucid yet?
[01:53] <micahg> asac: if not, I have one more fix
[01:56] <micahg> LLStarks: meeting on Thursday
[01:56] <LLStarks> is that an invitation or statement?
[01:56] <micahg> LLStarks: both
[01:56] <LLStarks> time and topics of discussion?
[01:57] <micahg> LLStarks: 1600 UTC, goals of mozilla team for lucid cycle
[01:59] <LLStarks> i should be able to attend.
[02:02] <LLStarks> micahg, what will keyword default to?
[02:02] <micahg> LLStarks: ?
[02:02] <LLStarks> keyword.URL
[02:02] <micahg> LLStarks: idk, my guess is yahoo
[02:03] <LLStarks> both search and addressbar will not overwrite during upgrades, right?
[02:03] <LLStarks> that is, google stays google from karmi to lucid.
[02:03] <micahg> LLStarks: if they're default, it will change to yahoo
[02:03] <LLStarks> wait. what.
[02:04] <LLStarks> why wouldn't it respect pre-existing user settings?
[02:10]  * micahg gives up on the topic
[02:10] <micahg> LLStarks: default will stay default
[02:10] <micahg> default now is google default in Lucid will be yahoo!
[02:12] <LLStarks> if you are going to overwrite that default and ignore user settings, we are getting to get hell for it unless there is a meaningful way to change the keyword.URL without forcing about:config
[02:12] <micahg> LLStarks: no, not ignore user settings
[02:12] <micahg> just modify the default
[02:14] <LLStarks> but let's say i'm a new ubuntu user and i ****ing hate yahoo.
[02:14] <micahg> LLStarks: if you choose wikipedia as your default, it will stay
[02:14] <LLStarks> i  can change the drop-down search engine default
[02:14] <micahg> LLStarks: if you didn't change from google, it will become yahoo
[02:14] <LLStarks> but that doesn't change the keyword.url
[02:14] <micahg> LLStarks: you can change it right back to google
[02:15] <micahg> LLStarks: the awesomebar will use whatever you select as your search engine on teh right
[02:15] <LLStarks> if i choose google, and i'm a new user, my keyword.url is still yahoo.
[02:15] <micahg> LLStarks: no
[02:15] <LLStarks> right now, it doesn't do that.
[02:15] <LLStarks> i'm using 3.6 umd right now.
[02:16] <LLStarks> a query into the awesomebar will use google if i select yahoo as my default search engine
[02:16] <micahg> LLStarks: yes, I think we're changing that forl ucid
[02:16] <LLStarks> is it on launchpad? if not, i'll file it.
[02:17] <micahg> LLStarks: better to discuss it at the meeting on thursday
[05:11] <micahg> asac: karmic and jaunty xul191 and ff35 are ready, but I didn't pull in PIE from xul191.head
[05:12]  * micahg also realized that we'll have to release <IP_ADDRESS> to lucid as well because of the apps that are using xulrunner...
[09:35] <BUGabundo_remote> {quick} morning
[14:31] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel/xulrunner-list
[15:46] <asac> ccheney: whats the status on libsoup?
[15:51] <asac> ArneGoetje: did you get my mail with the perl expression to fix the devmode stuff?
[15:53] <ArneGoetje> asac: yes, but I didn't have the time yet to look at it. I found another problem in the meantime. The install.rdf file which gets generated in firefox-3.6 for Lucid, has the wrong version numbers. It refers to firefox-3.0 instead of firefox-3.6. That's why all firefox translations in Lucid are currently broken.
[15:53] <micahg> I saw something like that in one of the packages
[15:53] <micahg> asac: did you do the upload yet
[15:53] <micahg> I can fix it
[15:54] <ArneGoetje> also the minVersion field has 3.0 as value and the maxVersion is 3.6. I guess it should be 3.6 and 3.6.* respectively.
[15:55] <micahg> ArneGoetje: yep
[15:58] <ArneGoetje> I can hack this into the en-US.xpi on langpack-o-matic for Lucid and rebuild the latest langpacks. Then we don't need to wait for the next full export from rosetta.
[16:02] <micahg> ArneGoetje: I fixed the rules file, I just need to know from asac if I need to bump the changelog
[16:02] <ArneGoetje> micahg: ok, thanks
[16:03] <ccheney> asac: almost done with i think, haven't had it put up any more large sets of unknown symbols recently
[16:03] <micahg> ArneGoetje: I have it pulling whatever the current FF version is for the minimum and 3.6.* for the max
[16:04] <ArneGoetje> micahg: ok
[16:06] <ArneGoetje> micahg: the @firefox-3.0 has also been corrected?
[16:07] <micahg> ArneGoetje: what do you mean?
[16:08] <ArneGoetje> micahg: the language identifier string is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>. This needs to be corrected to be firefox-3.6, otherwise the translations are not found.
[16:09] <micahg> ah
[16:09] <micahg> let me make sure
[16:09] <ArneGoetje> micahg: is that string supposed to be the template name in rosetta?
[16:09] <micahg> yes
[16:09] <micahg> I think so
[16:10]  * micahg is checking the version file
[16:11] <micahg> ArneGoetje: is that pulled from the EM_TRANSLATION_VERSION variable?
[16:12] <ArneGoetje> micahg: I don't know
[16:14] <asac> ccheney: cool
[16:14] <asac> micahg: should be ... yes.
[16:14] <asac> its sed'ed in the rules file
[16:15] <asac> check that
[16:15] <micahg> asac: http://pastebin.com/f2135de
[16:15] <ArneGoetje> asac: no, it's hardcoded in debian/translation-support/install.rdf.in
[16:15] <micahg> ArneGoetje: no, we create that :)
[16:16] <micahg> oh
[16:16] <micahg> maybe not :(
[16:16]  * micahg needs to slow down
[16:16] <asac> ok going for lunch
[16:16] <asac> out for a bit
[16:16] <micahg> asac: wait
[16:16] <micahg> did you do the upload, or can I add thisw fix
[16:17] <ccheney> asac: i think libsoup might be done today besides the part needing integration directly into glib
[16:17] <ccheney> i only have a few more macro expansion copies to do, each are quite a few functions
[16:18] <micahg> ArneGoetje: you are correct, hardcoded :)
[16:18] <micahg> I think I'll fix that...
[16:19] <ArneGoetje> micahg: wait... let me check something
[16:25] <ArneGoetje> micahg: yes, it's the template name in rosetta... which gives us a little problem now. We need to make a decision here...
[16:26] <micahg> oh, so there's a different template for 3.0 and 3
[16:26] <micahg> 3.5?
[16:26] <ArneGoetje> micahg: the template for 3.6 is supposed to be the final template for all further firefox versions, right?
[16:26] <ArneGoetje> micahg: yes, that's part of the problem.
[16:27] <micahg> ArneGoetje: well, what does the template say?
[16:29] <ArneGoetje> micahg: we have the template 'firefox' for 3.0, 'firefox-3.5' for 3.5 and now 'firefox-3.6' for 3.6. I planned to rename it to 'firefox' once we have 3.6 in all releases and obsolete older versions...
[16:29] <micahg> ah, well, yes, it will be called firefox from now on in releases, but asac should have final say
[16:30] <ArneGoetje> micahg: ok, so it should be 'firefox' for all further releases
[16:30] <micahg> yes, at least for the stable version
[16:30] <micahg> ArneGoetje: do I still need to make it be firefox-3.6 in the install.rdf?
[16:31] <ArneGoetje> micahg: that means, for now we need to hardcode firefox-3.6 in the install.rdf, because that's the current name of the template in rosetta (and that one is used in po2xpi to determine the installation path). ONce we rename the template to 'firefox' the install.rdf and po2xpi need to be fixed accordingly.
[16:33]  * BUGabundo_remote is in a passive aggressive mood
[16:33] <BUGabundo_remote> >On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 16:28, Wayne Mery (vn<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:
[16:33] <BUGabundo_remote> >BUGabundo do you still plan to create a followup bug?
[16:33] <BUGabundo_remote> >https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=490234
[16:33] <BUGabundo_remote> Na...
[16:33] <BUGabundo_remote> I'll just not user TB....
[16:33] <BUGabundo_remote> KMail suits me well enough.
[16:33] <BUGabundo_remote> If an email client (even if in alpha) can accept accounts, it isnt very usefull for my test abilities.
[16:33] <BUGabundo_remote> Keep up the hard work
[16:39] <micahg> ArneGoetje: so maybe I'll leave it hardcoded then
[16:39] <ArneGoetje> micahg: yes, but change it to 'firefox-3.6' for now.
[16:39] <micahg> ArneGoetje: k
[16:40] <ArneGoetje> micahg: when we rename the template in rosetta, we need to change this string accordingly.
[16:40] <micahg> ArneGoetje: just ping me when you do and I'll make the change
[16:41] <ArneGoetje> micahg: will do, thanks :)
[17:03] <ArneGoetje> micahg: do we remove the branding from the en-US.xpi?
[17:03] <micahg> ArneGoetje: idk
[17:06] <ArneGoetje> micahg: who does know?
[17:17] <micahg> ArneGoetje: asac
[17:20] <micahg> I'll be back in about an hour
[17:21] <shang> hi all, if I don't want to save any of my password in FF3.0, is there an entry in about:config (pref.js) that I can set??
[17:22] <asac> ArneGoetje: i dont think we remove that ... why?
[17:23] <ArneGoetje> asac: because it's missing
[17:23] <asac> since 3.6?
[17:23] <asac> or before as well?
[17:23] <asac> in the end the branding isnt really translatable ... does it break completely?
[17:24] <ArneGoetje> asac: there are references in other .dtd files which source branding/locale/brand.dtd ... I need to check further...
[17:25] <asac> yes
[17:25] <asac> but that should fall back to the en-US brand.dtd
[17:25] <asac> usually if a complete file is missing its not a problem
[17:26] <ArneGoetje> asac: ok, just want to make sure if it's a problem at all
[17:29] <asac> i dont think its a problem
[17:29] <asac> ArneGoetje: you can check by opening about -> help
[17:29] <asac> etc.
[17:29] <asac> thats where you can branding strings
[17:29] <asac> if its completly broken the dialog should be dead
[17:29] <asac> also having the Mozilla Firefox in the title of each window is a good indication that all is fine
[17:30] <ArneGoetje> asac: ok, looks fine
[17:36] <ArneGoetje> asac: your perl snippet also works. Now need to find a way to put this into po2xpi
[17:37] <asac> yeah ;)
[17:50] <ArneGoetje> asac: for entityline in `grep ENTITY.*%.*SYSTEM $dtdfile`; do <- shouldn't this grep for any SYSTEM .dtd and not only for the current filename?
[17:51] <ArneGoetje> asac: oh sorry... I', too tired. ;)
[17:51] <ArneGoetje> I'm
[17:52] <asac> ArneGoetje: i think ... the idea was to preprocess the full .dtd with that perl thing
[17:52] <asac> that would (iirc) merge all multiline entities into one line
[17:52] <asac> maybe try that and see if anything gets lost
[17:52] <asac> e.g. especially things like %blabla;
[17:53] <ArneGoetje> asac: the perl snippet only searches for SYSTEM lines
[17:53] <ArneGoetje> asac: I think only relace that grep statement with the perl snippet... will try that
[17:54] <asac> ArneGoetje: right. that might be it
[17:54] <asac> good
[18:01] <ArneGoetje> asac: ok, I will build new Lucid langpacks over night and see if the changes have solved the issue
[18:36] <micahg> asac: am I ok to fix ff translation version before upload?
[18:40] <asac> micahg: sure ... i havent uploaded yet ;)
[18:41] <micahg> asac: k
[18:42] <micahg> asac: I'm hardcoding the template name since there will only be one more change to it
[18:44] <micahg> asac: pushed
[18:44] <micahg> oops, I did the translation version and template change in the same commit
[19:19] <fta> http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/07/heineken-bot-does-what-it-says-on-the-keg-soon-to-be-mans-new/
[19:29] <asac> micahg: thats ok if its in the commit message
[20:29] <micahg> asac: yep
[20:34] <micahg> asac: I goofed the changelog, do I still have time to fix (wrote debian rules instead of debian/rules)
[20:50] <asac> micahg: sure
[20:50] <asac> i wont upload until i have finished dinner ;)
[20:51]  * micahg wonders how many times I can uncommit and commit the same release tag ;)
[21:19] <BUGabundo> evening
[21:34] <fta> asac, sent chromium from the last dev channel to lucid
[21:36] <BUGabundo> fta: at least is better then last night :\
[21:36] <fta> BUGabundo, ?
[21:37] <BUGabundo> yesterday it would explode and close it self
[21:37] <fta> the dev channel? or trunk?
[21:41] <BUGabundo> trunk
[22:56] <asac> fta: wondered if there was a beta release in between (because they bumped to 5.*)?
[23:24] <fta> asac, nope, the beta version is lower than the 1st version we uploaded
[23:39] <asac> right
[23:39] <asac> just wondered based on what the major version was bumped
[23:40] <ArneGoetje> asac: \o/ current FF translations for Lucid look good!!! :)
[23:40] <micahg> we didn't respin yet, did we?
[23:41] <ArneGoetje> micahg: I'm uploading the new langpacks now
[23:41] <micahg> ArneGoetje: yeah, but the ff version with the fixes wasn't uploaded, does that matter?
[23:41] <asac> ArneGoetje: very good. i will merge your branch soon too ;)
[23:41] <asac> sorry for the delay
[23:42] <ArneGoetje> micahg: no, it doesn't, I fixed the same issues locally
[23:42] <ArneGoetje> micahg: that is, for the latest full-export for Lucid
[23:42] <ArneGoetje> asac: ok, I will commit the perl snippet change to my branch
[23:43] <ArneGoetje> asac: it indeed fixes the problem
[23:43] <asac> yeah thats good i guess
[23:43] <asac> nice
[23:43] <asac> next thing we need to tackle is inclusion of searchplugins in langpack production ;)
[23:43] <micahg> asac: ?
[23:43] <asac> we want to ship localized searchplugins
[23:43] <micahg> oh, localized
[23:44] <asac> like what you get with upstream localized builds
[23:44] <asac> just that we do that in a multi-lang build (which doesnt work upstream)
[23:44] <asac> well it would work i guess ;) ... its just that they have no form to distribute those in an .pxi
[23:44] <micahg> asac: can we create a package like tb-locales and generate them?
[23:45] <asac> ArneGoetje: so the idea is that we add a for the common_xpi/firefox*/LANGCODE/searchplugins directory
[23:45] <asac> and then just ship that as /usr/lib/firefox-addons/searchplugins/LANGCODE/
[23:45] <asac> micahg: we use langpack-o-matic for firefox
[23:46] <ArneGoetje> asac: that one doesn't get exposed to rosetta, right?
[23:46] <fta> asac, because 4.* was released as stable for windows
[23:46] <asac> ArneGoetje: no. its just on rookery (or howver its called)
[23:46] <asac> fta: :(
[23:46] <asac> ok
[23:46] <ArneGoetje> asac: ok... static
[23:46] <asac> ArneGoetje: so we inject it to the lang tarballs
[23:46] <ArneGoetje> asac: ok, shouldn't be a big deal
[23:46] <asac> not sure which scripts would be the bet place to do that
[23:47] <asac> but I have the feeling that should be an easy pick ;)
[23:47] <asac> ArneGoetje: oh ... and we need that by monday ;)
[23:47]  * ccheney many hundreds of lines later still not done with libsoup2.4 (!#$!*
[23:48] <ArneGoetje> asac: !!!
[23:48] <asac> ArneGoetje: so we can push that up for a3 still
[23:48]  * ccheney is at 6K lines now
[23:48] <asac> aslong as it gets better ;)
[23:49]  * micahg needs to make sure xul192 gets into a3
[23:49] <micahg> wait, that'll be in universe, so no matter
[23:49] <asac> its not on CD so its really bound by a freeze
[23:49] <asac> yes.
[23:49] <asac> but having that as a milestone target makes sense anyway
[23:49] <ccheney> 176K+ of source, yuck
[23:58] <ArneGoetje> asac: if I am supposed to hack that into po2xpi, can you please give me a work item? I'm already behind schedule with my language-selector work... :(


[04:26] <Mdxxx> @search narnia
[04:26] <Mdxxx> wrong channel sorry
[19:39] <Guest51800> hello folks :)
[19:40] <Guest51800> Can someone recommend a tool to create a multiboot on a USB key?
[19:40] <Guest51800> i need lubuntu & windows installer on same usb.. if thats even possible ?
[19:45] <Guest51800> :/
[22:04] <karmaclown1> test
[22:04] <tsimonq2> !test | karmaclown1
[22:04] <tsimonq2> :)


[00:53] <psusi> does anyone remember when the toolchain moved to gcc 4.5?  was it after alpha 1?
[01:00] <penguin42> psusi: From my dpkg.log I'd say I 1st got it 12th December
[01:04] <psusi> hrm... I be that bug is also what is causing unity to foul up when you right click on it and it tries to display the transparent menu
[01:04] <psusi> that's about when it started doing that
[06:30] <GreenRollup> DAMN GIRL. ELKY YOU IN THE DEVEL? well shoot. you have some sexy cards up your sleeve
[06:30] <GreenRollup> how you doing maco?
[06:31] <slangasek> SpamapS: restarting portmap doesn't seem to actually cause statd to be restarted (at least in maverick), because 'ON_BOOT=' doesn't match a job that doesn't have ON_BOOT as a variable at all... does this work in natty?
[06:32] <GreenRollup> you know i head a dream
[06:32] <GreenRollup> it was some sort of october get together at my school
[06:32] <GreenRollup> and then nude 3d models were on the sc reen
[06:32] <GreenRollup> and popcorn all over the place
[06:32] <GreenRollup> then a shooter starting shooting us
[06:33] <slangasek> GreenRollup: this channel is for Ubuntu development; please take your comments elsewhere
[06:33] <GreenRollup> i was shot in the head by a second shooter because i was distracted by a bright light
[06:33] <GreenRollup> ok
[06:33] <akshatj> !offtopic ! GreenRollup
[06:34] <akshatj> !offtopic | GreenRollup
[06:34] <GreenRollup> !bannedfromofftopic | akshatj
[06:43] <slangasek> SpamapS: got it sorted - requires fixes on both the portmap and statd jobs (env ON_BOOT=; then an order of operations bug in the statd start condition.)
[08:27] <aalex> I am a Debian maintainer. How can I file a bug to ask for a package's version to be more recent for the next Natty release? (the version at the freeze date contains bugs)
[08:30] <bryceh> aalex, there is a requestsync script
[08:32] <aalex> bryceh, in ubuntu-dev-tools ?
[08:32] <bryceh> aalex, or just file a bug report at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug - "Please sync foobar <version> from debian" against the appropriate package
[08:32] <aalex> (I'm on Lucid right now)
[08:33] <bryceh> aalex, yes, that's right
[08:33] <aalex> bryceh, Or there: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/toonloop/natty
[08:39] <aalex> bryceh, $ requestsync -s toonloop natty    ?
[08:40] <aalex> bryceh, given that GPGKEY=25DAAC75
[08:44] <aalex> E: No credentials found for 'ubuntu-dev-tools', please see the manage-credentials manpage for help on how to create one for this consumer.
[08:44] <aalex> :-(
[08:44] <aalex> E: Could not connect to fiordland.ubuntu.com:25: No route to host (113)
[09:11] <nucc1> hi, i get this error while trying to build evolution http://pastie.org/1465981 . anyone know what I'm missing?
[09:23] <geser> nucc1: install "dh-autoreconf" and "gnome-pkg-tools"
[09:24] <nucc1> geser, thanks, i sort of guessed the gnome-pkg-tools one though :)
[09:25] <geser> aalex: does the computer you run requestsync on have a working internet connection?
[09:34] <aalex> geser, no
[09:35] <geser> aalex: requestsync can either mail the bug report to Launchpad (with smtp) or file it directly (with http; LP API)
[09:36] <aalex> geser, ok... how can I get it to work the easiest way?
[09:36] <aalex> I never got reportbug to work either
[09:38] <geser> aalex: can you run requestsync from the box you use right now for IRC?
[09:41] <dupondje> gdm bit broken atm in Natty ?
[09:55] <nucc1> "pbuilder-dist <release> build ../<package>_<version>.dsc" is there some way to make this command take advantage of multiple cpu cores?  it seems to be doing only one thread
[09:57] <geser> nucc1: does the package support parallel building?
[09:58] <nucc1> geser, i'm not sure, and i don't know how to find that out
[09:59] <nucc1> when building from tarballs, i normally run make -j2 and that does the trick
[09:59] <nucc1> the package is 'evolution'
[09:59] <geser> nucc1: check the packaging if it does something similar
[10:00] <nucc1> packaging?
[10:00] <geser> the files in the debian/ directory
[10:00] <geser> more specific debian/rules
[10:03] <nucc1> geser, i could add -j2 to the #! /usr/bin/make -f on the first line?
[10:03] <aalex> geser, no, I get that error E: Could not connect to fiordland.ubuntu.com:25: No route to host (113)
[10:04] <aalex> geser, maybe I can change the server?
[10:04] <geser> nucc1: don't know if that would work
[10:05] <nucc1> if it supports parallel building, what would i have found in the file?
[10:06] <geser> nucc1: packages supporting it, check the value of "parallel" from the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS env variable and use this for -jX
[10:07] <geser> aalex: you can use DEBSMTP to specify a different smtp server
[10:08] <aalex> geser, ok. thanks
[10:08] <geser> aalex: what about the patch the Ubuntu package of "toonloop" has? and I've tried to build 2.0.4 in Ubuntu natty and it fails to build
[10:11] <aalex> geser, does it need libboost-system, maybe? I fixed it upstream... need to test it on natty first I guess.
[10:12] <aalex> geser, I can use pbuilder for that on a maverick box?
[10:12] <geser> aalex: yes, you can setup a natty pbuilder on maverick
[10:13] <aalex> geser, I'll make sure to test it on natty first, next I'll upload it to debian, and then ask for the sync
[10:13] <aalex> (I'm also upstream)
[10:14] <geser> aalex: the error is "configure: error: libstk is not installed: alsa"
[10:14] <aalex> oh
[10:15] <geser> aalex: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554658/ (from config.log)
[10:16] <geser> the problem is the "-lstk" before the conftest.cpp; this order doesn't with "ld --as-needed" anymore. You should be able to reproduce this with "binutils-gold" in Debian
[10:16] <aalex> geser, But libstk0-dev is on natty too. http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/libstk0-dev
[10:18] <geser> aalex: not the build-dependency is the issue, but configure.ac; you put "-lstk" into LDFLAGS instead of LIBS
[10:19] <aalex> geser, is there a patch?
[10:19] <geser> give me a minute
[10:25] <aalex> geser, great :)
[10:25] <geser> aalex: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554663/ is needed to get past configure and to start building
[10:26] <nucc1> geser, is there a shorter means to testing the changes i've made to a package? having to build a .deb and install is quite a long process
[10:26] <geser> aalex: but it fails later with a linking error about boost_system
[10:26] <aalex> geser, yeah... that's fixed in both upstream and the ubuntu package
[10:27] <aalex> here is my fix: http://github.com/aalex/toonloop/commit/750bd649c12e4e23c768b8eec602c950c5af3858
[10:28] <geser> nucc1: not that I know of if you change source code (ccache might speed up the compilation)
[10:33] <aalex> geser, so, I should put "-lstk" in LIBS, not LDFLAGS?
[10:33] <geser> yes
[10:35] <geser> with "ld --as-needed" (which natty uses by default) the linking order matters: a library gets only linked in when an object file *before* it on the command line uses one of its symbols
[10:35] <aalex> oh
[10:36] <geser> if you put "-lstk" into LDFLAGS it gets put before the object file (here: conftest.cpp) while LIBS are put after it by configure
[10:36] <aalex> geser, http://paste.debian.net/104729/ ?
[10:37] <geser> yes
[10:38] <aalex>  geser: thanks a lot! I'll make a new upstream release and try it on natty later on.
[10:40] <aalex> this could have been done with quilt, but anyways... I'm also upstream, so let's use it.
[10:42] <geser> bryceh: if I try the new X stack from xorg-edgers, can I keep updating from it once it landed in natty or will I have to manually "upgrade" to the official packages?
[10:51] <nucc1> geser, how can i build the associated dbg packages?
[10:53] <geser> evolution-dbg? this one you should get automatically as it's part of the package building process
[10:54] <nucc1> yea, i can't find it in the pbuilder directory where the .deb packages are
[10:54] <nucc1> ah, seen it.
[10:54] <aalex> geser, Fixed and released: http://github.com/aalex/toonloop/commit/cce7f7d4f346c47ddbf9c2e07c6aeac92bea6341
[10:55] <aalex> later,
[10:55] <geser> nice :)
[12:56] <grnd44> greetings. I noticed the async initramfs patchset has been shipping in U for several releases; could you enlighten me on why it's not upstream?
[15:53] <kaydsoft> Hi ..... would anyone who happens to be workin on natty answer this question .... what is the default python interpretor on natty .... zit 2.x ow 3.x?
[15:55] <kaydsoft> or am I askin the question in the wrong place?
[15:56] <\sh> kaydsoft: 2.x

[15:57] <kaydsoft> when will u start support for
[15:57] <kaydsoft> 3.x
[15:58] <\sh> most likely when most of all python packages do support 3.x ? more infos can doko give you when he's awake or back from dallas i think
[15:59] <kaydsoft> k thsnx
[15:59] <\sh> kaydsoft: but python 3 is also in the archives...and some of the packages are building already python3 bin pkgs
[15:59] <\sh> afaik...I'm not focussing on py3 right now
[15:59] <kaydsoft> k
[16:00] <kaydsoft> so I should tka my focus fwom py3
[16:00] <kaydsoft> n settle for py2
[16:00] <kaydsoft> ?
[16:03] <\sh> kaydsoft: depends on you? :)
[16:19] <kaydsoft> k
[17:12] <pavolzetor> hi, why my program reports tihs?
[17:12] <pavolzetor>  ./xml_parser rss.xml Cannot connect to destination (<IP_ADDRESS>)
[17:12] <pavolzetor> It is written in vala
[17:12] <pavolzetor> I have ubuntu natty
[17:13] <pavolzetor> this works http://localhost:59693/_utils/index.html
[20:57] <slangasek> SpamapS: so now that statd is sorted, I'm trying to work out bug #643289 as well for idmapd... maybe you see an easy way out of this that I've overlooked :)
[22:38] <cxo> There is a "liblastfm0" package provided on ubuntu. Its the (now) official last.fm backed library that uses Nokia QT. I wrote a lastfm library in pure C and I want to package it for Ubuntu. What do i call it?
[22:39] <cxo> Oh do i need to be in #ubuntu-app-devel?
[22:40] <Tm_T> cxo: you mean Qt?
[22:41] <Tm_T> cxo: and you can call it anything you like, as long as it's not "liblastfm"
[22:42] <cxo> How annoying
[22:43] <cxo> I wonder if i asked nicely if they would rename theirs to libqt-lastfm
[22:43] <cxo> So I have no idea what to call it now. Any suggestions?
[22:44] <Tm_T> liblastfm-c (;
[22:44] <cxo> liblastfmlib
[22:44] <Tm_T> or to be witty, "libfirstfm"
[22:44] <cxo> I remember there used to be a taglib and a libtag., once upon a time
[22:45] <Tm_T> taglib package is called libtaglib (lib prefix for library package)
[22:45] <Tm_T> or something
[22:46] <cxo> The reason i wrote my own implementation is because having to pull in qt for just one silly lib is such drag for people who use gnome
[22:47] <cxo> http://liblastfm.sourceforge.net/
[22:47] <cxo> I have the name on launchpad actually
[22:49] <cxo> Tm_T, in terms of packaging. Can i include a "breaks:" param in the control file to say its not compatible with the other library?
[22:50] <Tm_T> err, I see no point having it to break the other library
[22:52] <Tm_T> actually, you have to make sure it doesn't break it
[22:57] <cxo> Is there an easy apt-trick way to find out which apps in the repo actually use that library?
[23:01] <Tm_T> apt-cache rdepends liblastfm0
[23:02] <cxo> So its basically used for one QT/KDE app - Amarok
[23:03] <cxo> No surprising. Unless you're writing a QT app, no point on using that library.
[23:03] <cxo> s/No/Not/
[23:04] <Tm_T> still you must avoid breaking it, installing your library should never break other apps unless it's absolutely necessary
[23:06] <cxo> Yeah. I'm going to ask them to change their library name to reflect the toolkit bias
[23:08] <cxo> Thanks for the help
[23:09] <Tm_T> np
[23:11] <cxo> I heard that banshee is going to be replacing rhythmbox in 11.04. Is that true?
[23:18] <micahg> cxo: I think it's already done
[23:19] <cxo> Does this now make mono an "essential" package?
[23:20] <micahg> cxo: no, we use seeds for defaults not essential
[23:26] <cxo> Sorry, what does that mean?
[23:29] <micahg> cxo: there's a file used to generate the dependencies for ubuntu-desktop
[23:40] <cxo> So I'm guessing the majority of ubuntu users are now using banshee, thats why the switch?
[23:48] <micahg> cxo: not necessarily, but it was decided at UDS to switch to it as the default music player
[23:49] <cxo> hmm
[23:49] <cxo> What do you use?
[23:49] <micahg> cxo: I use Xubuntu, but I also use banshee
[23:50] <cxo> Oh interesting. Don't like Amarok?
[23:50] <micahg> cxo: Dropped it a while back when I needed ipod support
[23:53] <cxo> It would be nice to have something like libipod (or whatever its called) hooked into nautilus, so every media player doesnt have to duplicate the code
[23:54] <micahg> cxo: there's libgpod
[23:55] <cxo> If you're not too busy, I'd like to see what banshee looks like on Xubuntu. Can you post a screenshot?


[01:58] <alarmo> Hello, everyone. Can anyone help me trying to dim my notebook's lcd brightness on 8.04 beta ? The thing is blinding me already...
[02:09] <shinynew> anyone here?
[02:12] <gaurdro> I am
[02:13] <tim__> no one is here?
[02:19] <zoredache> !anyone | shinynew
[02:19] <ubotu> shinynew: A large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..."  Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out?
[02:20] <shinynew> ok if i change my .xsession and leave the gdm to the .xclient script will it run the .xsession?
[02:20] <shinynew> how should i go about just writeing a few things to start up and not xfce4 desktop
[02:22] <tim__> sry no one is here
[09:22] <LeFish-Xubuntu> hi anyone has some time to give me a quick hint?
[09:34] <Iskr> LeFish-Xubuntu, just ask if someone know the answer will answer you
[09:38] <LeFish-Xubuntu> i can adjust the volume using comands like amixer set Master 5+-
[09:38] <LeFish-Xubuntu> but amixer set Master mute or toggle doesnt do anything
[10:26] <whileimhere> Good Morning from the eastcoast USA
[10:26] <whileimhere> How are all the roomies here today?
[10:27] <whileimhere> I just switched over to XFCE in hoped of getting some improvements in my AMD Sempron with just a gig of ram.
[11:57] <yodah> i get this when i try to boot from xubuntu 7.10 live cd --> [ 0.000000] ACPI: BIOS age (1999) fails cutoff (2000), acpi=force is required to enable ACPI
[11:57] <yodah> its an old compaq PII
[11:57] <yodah> with 160MB of RAM
[11:59] <yodah> any help....?
[12:07] <Iskr> it remids me something
[12:07] <Iskr> i think i too experienced this once
[12:07] <Iskr> try to use the option provided
[12:07] <Iskr> (acpi=force)
[12:26] <yodah> Iskr : i am a n00b, how do i use that option?
[12:26] <TheSheep> !boot | yodah
[12:26] <ubotu> yodah: Boot options: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions - To add/remove startup services, you can use the package 'bum', or update-rc.d - To add your own startup scripts, use /etc/rc.local - See also !grub and !dualboot - Making a boot floppy: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto/BootFloppy - Also see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SmartBootManagerHowto
[12:30] <skylive> Hi all, what's a good wifi manager for xubuntu? would be great if it can connect on startup.
[12:31] <cody-somerville> Xubuntu includes the network manager applet
[12:32] <skylive> correct, but my wireless USB Adapter is not listed there, even though through ndiswrapper's GUI, its installed.
[12:41] <skylive> hello? What's a good alternative?
[12:41] <Iskr> don't know
[14:38] <pteague> what's the diff between totem-gstreamer & totem-xine ?
[14:39] <pteague> i guess the better question is what's the diff between gstreamer & xine?
[14:39] <cody-somerville> They're different backends
[14:41] <kommer> Can anyone help me out with the screen resolution in xubuntu please?
[15:54] <Qjimbo> hey
[15:54] <Qjimbo> how do I force a text mode installed on xubuntu?
[15:54] <Qjimbo> *install
[15:55] <Qjimbo> the cd drive on my laptop is too slow to effectively run the live cd
[15:55] <Iskr> use the alternate install cd
[15:55] <Qjimbo> oh?
[15:56] <TheSheep> !alternate
[15:56] <ubotu> The Alternate CD is a classical text-mode install CD. It supports a wider range of hardware than the !LiveCD, and can also be used as an upgrade CD.  Look for the alternate checkbox on the Ubuntu download page - See also !minimal
[15:56] <Iskr> !minimal
[15:56] <ubotu> The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want (the installer is like the one on the !Alternate CD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[15:59] <Qjimbo> thanks downloading now =)
[15:59] <Qjimbo> yeah I grabbed the desktop one before, that was silly
[16:49] <breetai> Hey all. Does anybody know if wubi is on the Xubuntu 8.04 Beta
[16:50] <cody-somerville> I believe it is but someone reported they had difficulty with it on amd64
[16:50] <cody-somerville> I'd love to hear from you if you get it to work or not
[17:03] <breetai> cody-somerville: looks like it is time for me to download the ISO
[17:04] <cody-somerville> :)
[18:01] <Qjimbo> Is it possible to skip the "Scanning the mirror..." part of the text install?
[18:02] <Qjimbo> it's been stuck on 60% for ages because I haven't configured the network yet
[18:06] <zoredache> Qjimbo: it is possible if you go into expert mode I believe...
[18:47] <Qjimbo> hmm still stuck at 60%
[18:47] <Qjimbo> I don't know how  to get into expert mode =(
[18:48] <maxamillion> then you shouldn't be in expert mode
[18:49] <cody-somerville> lol
[18:51] <Qjimbo> well I've found Alt+F4 brings up another console which shows whats going on
[19:40] <_maw> in xubuntu my laptop audio keys were not automatically discovered (kubuntu did this for me) any suggestions?
[19:40] <cody-somerville> _maw, try installing aumix
[19:41] <_maw> text or gtk?
[19:41] <_maw> I don't really care either way
[19:42] <cody-somerville> Actually, disregard that
[19:42] <cody-somerville> One moment please
[19:44] <_maw> ah ok I see what this app does, I will keep it but it doesnt make the hardware buttons work :\
[20:39] <birgi> hey all, i just installed xubuntu and have a problem. after the grub menu i only see a black screen until the gdm asks for a password. how can i fix this?
[20:41] <HACKhalo2> :?
[20:42] <TheSheep> birgi: edot /etc/ussplash.conf and put smaller resolutioni n there
[20:42] <HACKhalo2> try using the password you set when you installed Xubuntu
[20:43] <birgi> thanks guys, it is annoying because normally linux shows everything that it does in the boot process, but now i can see nothing, let me try that resolution thing
[20:45] <birgi> TheSheep: now it is 1280x1024, what would you suggest? and this is only for the part before the gdm right?
[20:45] <TheSheep> birgi: yes, maybe 1024x768
[20:46] <birgi> ok thanks
[21:26] <Qjimbo> heh well I'm now onto the main install
[21:26] <Qjimbo> and this cd-r seems to be working the cd drive hard
[21:26] <Qjimbo> the laser movement sounds like there's a little mouse inside haxsawing
[21:33] <Lobster> hello
[21:33] <Qjimbo> hey hows it going?
[21:33] <zoredache> !hi
[21:33] <ubotu> Hi! Welcome to #xubuntu!
[21:33] <Qjimbo> rofl
[21:34] <Qjimbo> thats the laziest script ever
[21:34] <HACKhalo2> lol
[21:34] <HACKhalo2> i want one :P
[21:34] <Lobster> where are the theme-files for window-decoration stored?
[21:34]  * HACKhalo2 huggles ubotu
[21:34] <zoredache> !botsnack
[21:34] <ubotu> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
[21:35] <HACKhalo2> can i have one zoredache?
[21:35] <zoredache> can you have what?
[21:35] <HACKhalo2> a ubotu?
[21:36] <zoredache> !ubotu
[21:36] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[22:31] <Qjimbo> ok so best way of getting my netgear wg511 wireless card to work in xubuntu?
[22:32] <zoredache> I would start by checking out the wifi docs...
[22:32] <zoredache> !wifi | Qjimbo
[22:32] <ubotu> Qjimbo: Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
[22:41] <Lobster> may I change the sounds of errors? it always beeps and thats anoying
[22:43] <Iskr> well it maybe is your internal speaker
[22:44] <zoredache> what is 'it' that is beeping?
[22:48] <zoredache> for example in bash you can set your 'bell-style' to 'visible'
[22:49] <Lobster> yes the internal speaker. it's for example when I hit backspace in an empty text field
[22:53] <Iskr> so you could mute it
[22:53] <Iskr> i did so
[22:55] <Lobster> yeah I hoped not to have to use the unplug-speaker-solution ;) I will try that bell-style otion
[23:12] <birgi> TheSheep: it did not work out...
[23:13] <TheSheep> birgi: is it a laptop?
[23:14] <birgi> yes it is, it has a problematic video card (ati hd 2600)
[23:14] <TheSheep> birgi: some laptops will try to display the usplash on their vga out or something like that
[23:15] <TheSheep> birgi: you can disable the graphical splash entirely and have text instead
[23:15] <birgi> yep, it perfectly works for me, how can i do that?
[23:16] <TheSheep> birgi: edit /boot/grub/menu.lst and remove 'quiet splash' options from boot options
[23:16] <birgi> ok, thanks a lot.
[23:42] <Lobster> hmmm I didn't got rid of that beep, but I got rid of that stupid capslock :)


[00:10] <irc_FoxDie> hi
[00:29] <Azelphur> Anyone know if oracle java has an ARM build?
[00:31] <shauno> heh, you're funny.
[00:31] <shauno> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/embedded/downloads/javase/index.html
[00:31] <Azelphur> cool
[00:31] <Azelphur> so that gets me in browser java on arm?
[00:31]  * Azelphur grabs that :P
[00:31] <Azelphur> hmm, so many options
[00:32] <Azelphur> there's only one headful version, so I suppose that's the one I want?
[00:39] <shauno> haven't the foggiest I'm afraid
[00:39] <Azelphur> me either
[00:39] <Azelphur> maybe icedtea will work
[00:39] <shauno> however, 'headful' is a fun word that I may try to use again some time
[00:39] <Azelphur> xD
[00:42] <directhex> Azelphur: i don't think there's a java browser plugin for ARM
[00:43] <shauno> trying to buy ubercheap servers isn't fun.  appears intel have an aversion to stating which chips are EMT64 and which are actually x86_64
[00:43] <directhex> e.g. firefox doesn't properly support browser plugins on arm
[00:43] <directhex> shauno: er, what's the difference?
[00:43] <Azelphur> :<
[00:44] <shauno> I don't believe 64bit builds of ubuntu will run on a 6yo xeon that's emt64 but not amd64
[00:44] <directhex> i kinda got moonlight running on ARM by patching monlight to identify its browser API as "Unknown_Linux" rather than "Linux_i386_gcc34" or something like that
[00:45] <directhex> shauno: i think you're mistaken.
[00:45] <shauno> it's a possibility, especially if you ask my wife.  but I'm fairly averse to buying servers off ebay without knowing for sure
[00:47] <directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Older_implementations are all the differences
[00:47] <directhex> i really don't think ubuntu is built not to run on older em64t chips
[00:48] <directhex> and if you order tonight, you can get a new HP server for <£150. http://www.ebuyer.com/281915-hp-proliant-turion-ii-n40l-microserver-100-cashback-658553-421
[00:51] <shauno> yeah, I've been watching out for those.  they haven't run the cashback thing in the republic since december :/
[00:53] <shauno> oh no, looks like it ran in september too
[06:43] <bb15> Good morning!
[07:37] <dwatkins> ello
[08:11] <bootinfdsds> dwatkins,  Looks like they made it ! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adapteva/parallella-a-supercomputer-for-everyone/
[08:20] <dwatkins> bootinfdsds: interesting
[08:22] <dwatkins> bootinfdsds: the little penguin under his TV looks exactly like the one given out to all SGI employees about 7 years ago, perhaps he used to work there.
[08:25] <dwatkins> What I don't understand about Kickstarter projects like this is why the larger manufacturers aren't already doing this sort of thing.
[08:42] <AlanBell> dwatkins: because they have the capital already
[08:42] <AlanBell> or can raise it conventionally
[08:42] <dwatkins> AlanBell: I mean that I don't know why the bigger manufacturers aren't making this kind of board ;)
[08:42] <AlanBell> oh, right :)
[08:43] <dwatkins> Sorry for being ambiguous.
[08:43] <AlanBell> heh, I was going to drift off into an economics lecture :)
[08:43] <dwatkins> We had snow yesterday in Doncaster, it's getting properly cold now.
[08:44] <dwatkins> I do enjoy hearing about economics. Someone pointed out the other day that Apple's prices being high means that people are reassured by them.
[08:44] <dwatkins> "reassuringly expensive" actually does sell
[08:44] <AlanBell> yes, it does
[08:47] <christel> i was pleased to see they made it and shall look forward to receiving my board!
[08:47] <christel> \o/
[08:48] <dwatkins> I'm tempted to get one, christel.
[08:48] <christel> :D
[08:49] <dwatkins> I didn't know there was an Ubuntu release for RISC.
[09:21] <ali1234> nobody is making a board like that because it is of limited use outside academia
[09:22] <ali1234> nobody else needs parallel computing just for the sake of it
[09:31] <ali1234> "45GHz CPU"
[09:31] <christel> i parsed board as beard \o/
[09:31] <ali1234> by their metric an i7 is 24 GHz
[09:32] <ali1234> so their 64 core version which doesn't exist yet is twice as good as an i7
[09:33] <ali1234> except that it isn't because their risc core is nowhere near as powerful as an x86, clock for clock.
[09:33] <ali1234> so basically if the question is "why is nobody making massively inefficient and point parallel computing devices" i think the answer is obvious
[09:36] <popey> morning all
[09:39] <directhex> ali1234: for once, we wholeheartedly agree!
[09:39] <ali1234> directhex: it's not the first time
[09:39] <directhex> it's a 2-core arm a9, with some crazy vector nonsense on the side. like my first cell for kids
[09:40] <ali1234> yep. great for teaching "how to write parallel software" but of little use in the real world, because real hardware is so much better
[09:40] <ali1234> dwatkins: the ubuntu OS that comes with it will only run on the ARM cores
[09:40] <directhex> not even useful for that, tbh
[09:40] <ali1234> maybe, maybe not
[09:41] <directhex> it's no use for teaching parallel programming, since it can't teach any of the parallel programming paradigms used in real-world scale-up architecture
[09:41] <ali1234> why not?
[09:41] <directhex> i.e. it's not openmp or mpi or opencl, therefore it's esoteric single-use nonsense
[09:41] <ali1234> they claim it supports openmp and mpi
[09:41] <directhex> pfft
[09:41] <directhex> i'll believe it when i see it
[09:41] <directhex> hint: i won't see it
[09:42] <popey> directhex, signed up for the valve beta?
[09:42] <directhex> popey: bien sur!
[09:42] <popey> http://www.valvesoftware.com/linuxsurvey.php
[09:42] <ali1234> maybe i misread it
[09:43] <ali1234> writing a opencl implementation for it should at least be possible and probably make a nice undergraduate thesis for someone
[09:43] <directhex> opencl i can see it doing
[09:43] <directhex> the architecture doesn't allow for openmp, and memory constraints make it kinda useless for nontrivial mpi
[09:43] <ali1234> though if you want opencl to play on, just get a GPU
[09:44] <directhex> but you'd learn more writing an mpi app on a multi-core linux desktop, using the shared memory back-end
[09:45] <directhex> the secret truth about parallel computing is you don't want 64 crap cores. you want 1 super powerful one. every time
[09:45] <directhex> if your app is 99% parallelizable and efficient, on 64 cores, that means 0.99^64 i.e. 52%
[09:46] <ali1234> yes. parallel computing is where you go when you've exceeded the limits of what you can do with 1 core.
[09:58] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:28] <andyc> This is probably the wrong place to ask this question, but does anyone know of any good deals on laptops at the moment that have good support for ubuntu?
[10:29] <andyc> I had heard that thinkpads generally run linux quite well but don't know whether this is still the case
[10:29] <andyc> I'm thinking in terms of ACPI support for suspend/hibernate specifically
[10:30] <andyc> (I'm assuming that network/sound are generally well supported but I've found that waking from suspend is something which my computer struggles with)
[10:56] <SuperMatt> installing windows 8. restart count: 3
[10:56] <SuperMatt> so far
[10:56] <SuperMatt> and this is just an inline install
[11:17] <bigcalm_laptop> Jello!
[11:18] <awilkins> Straw poll ; how many people have removed unity-lens-shopping ?
[11:18] <bashrc> yes
[11:19] <ahayzen> no
[11:19] <bigcalm_laptop> *GONG*
[11:19] <ahayzen> was i supposed to? lol ;)
[11:21] <awilkins> Not implying a right choice either way, just interested to know peoples opinion and their actions reflect that the best :-)
[11:21] <bigcalm_laptop> I had a quick look and wasn't happy how it worked. There didn't appear to be an 'easy' click here to disable
[11:21]  * bigcalm_laptop continues with xubuntu and ignorant bliss
[11:21] <bashrc> I think it can be dissabled within the privacy settings
[11:21] <bigcalm_laptop> It can, but that takes effort
[11:21] <ahayzen> doesn't that disable all data from the internet though?
[11:22] <bigcalm_laptop> Or, more effort
[11:22] <ahayzen> eg the U1 Music Store data source? or have i miss understood that button?
[11:23] <bigcalm_laptop> Off I pop
[11:25] <ali1234> i haven't installed 12.10 but if i had, i would remove it
[11:27] <ali1234> there wouldn't be any point in me having it installed anyway as I have uninstall unity because it depends on compiz-0.9 which conflicts with compiz
[11:30] <AlanBell> ahayzen: no, it doesn't disable all data from the internet
[11:30] <AlanBell> it is just a preference setting that lenses and scopes can decide whether or not to honour
[11:31] <ahayzen> AlanBell, ah i see thanks
[11:31] <AlanBell> it actually has almost nothing to do with whether results come from the internet or not
[11:31] <ahayzen> but it says 'Include online search results' :(
[11:32] <AlanBell> yeah, it lies
[11:32] <AlanBell> well, misleads
[11:32] <ahayzen> yeah
[11:32] <AlanBell> if you check it then some canonical produced lenses will s
[11:32] <bashrc> I thought the dash was a nice feature in 12.04, but then they went and messed it up in 12.10 with the amazon stuff
[11:32] <AlanBell> if you uncheck it then some canonical produced lenses will stop providing online search results
[11:33] <AlanBell> bashrc: that is nonsense, it had youtube stuff in 12.04
[11:33] <ahayzen> *some* ;)
[11:33] <ahayzen> not all then
[11:33] <bashrc> yes, but the youtube stuff didn't appear in the default search, it was within its own lens
[11:33] <AlanBell> ahayzen: well, all the default ones I think
[11:34] <ahayzen> awesome...but it should work as a kill switch for all lenses official or not
[11:34] <bashrc> I thought the youtube search was a good feature of 12.04
[11:34] <AlanBell> bashrc: true, and I don't like the way they have set the invisible property on the amazon lens
[11:35] <AlanBell> bashrc: yeah, it is a good feature, as is the amazon lens. Just the "OMG Amazon are getting our search queries!!11!" stuff isn't really news
[11:36] <bashrc> don't know if anyone has already seen this  http://www.valvesoftware.com/linuxsurvey.php
[11:36] <AlanBell> all lenses and scopes can listen to your global search queries and do evil stuff with them if they want
[11:36] <AlanBell> you can today write a scope/lens that displays *nothing* does not appear in the lens bar, does not present any results but listens to every query you type
[11:37] <bashrc> amazon in it's own lens would be fine, especially if specific lenses are uninstallable (I almost never use amazon)
[11:37] <AlanBell> and sends it off to an evil datawarehouse full of  "term" and "gedi" and "firef"
[11:37] <AlanBell> and that evil scope could do it's evil "gedi" harvesting irrespective of your choice in the privacy dialog
[11:38] <AlanBell> personally I think the non-functional privacy checkbox is the bad thing, the lens itself is fine
[11:39] <AlanBell> and I don't think lenses should be permitted to set visible=false and hide from the lens bar at the bottom of the dash
[11:39] <bashrc> didn't know that could happen
[11:39] <AlanBell> that is how the amazon lens doesn't show up there
[11:40] <bashrc> hidden lenses sending data to who knows where could be pretty bad - imagine what spammers would do with it
[11:40] <AlanBell> I was trying to find out what the relevant UDS session would be to raise these topics but I don't see a lens thing on the schedule yet
[11:41] <AlanBell> bashrc: well, I actually can't imagine what spammers would do with "gedi" and "ter"
[11:41] <AlanBell> but in principal I agree
[11:42] <AlanBell> personally I don't type high quality harvestable data into the global dash search
[11:42] <bashrc> with the possibility of there being more proprietary stuff on ubuntu in future - especially games - it's probably a good idea not to build in features which could allow the user to be tricked
[11:43] <AlanBell> would be interesting to find out if other people do . . . I could write a simple hidden lens to get some data on this . . .
[11:43] <AlanBell> argh, I just turned evil didn't I
[11:43] <bashrc> where's the black hat...
[11:43] <bashrc> any info cn be used as a crib
[11:44] <bashrc> or just for traffic analysis
[11:46] <bashrc> but anyway that kind of stuff is sufficiently proximal to personal files/documents that it's a potential security issue
[11:46] <bashrc> especially if I was using ubuntu in a business context
[11:48] <ali1234> i have yet to see a good explanation of how, if i am searching for a video on youtube, it is useful to me to have recipes, news articles, files from my hard disk, and products i can buy on amazon mixed into the search results randomly
[11:50] <bashrc> I suppose the Microsoft equivalent would be that anything you type into the windows explorer search box gets sent to Redmond by default.
[11:51] <ali1234> yeah
[11:51] <ali1234> or google desktop
[11:51] <ali1234> or chrome OS
[11:53] <awilkins> I think Google Desktop and ChromeOS probably did / do that
[11:53] <bashrc> yes, but I think chromeos is not much more than a kernel and a browser
[11:54] <awilkins> For similar reasons - Google want all your data with them
[11:55] <ali1234> the revenue Canonical earns from integrated amazon search results will be used to bring you more great features like integrated amazon search results
[11:55] <bashrc> heh
[11:55] <bashrc> but as a linux user I don't want to become the product
[11:55] <directhex> canonical needs revenue streams
[11:55] <bashrc> true, but there are better ways of doing it
[11:56] <ali1234> without that revenue great features like integrated amazon search results just wouldn't be possible
[11:56] <directhex> if you didn't hand over money for it, then you're the product. applies everywhere.
[11:56] <ahayzen> anyone know how much Canonical will be getting from including the amazon search results?
[11:59] <ali1234> http://xkcd.com/1021/ probably the most insightful cartoon xkcd man ever made
[11:59] <directhex> ahayzen: presumably they're just going to get affiliate money when people buy things from those results
[12:00] <ahayzen> directhex, yeah...but i wonder what cut they get
[12:01] <ali1234> the same cut as anyone
[12:01] <ahayzen> which is?
[12:01] <ali1234> which reminds me i need to make a ubuntu respin with my amazon affiliate account and then seed it on pirate bay
[12:02] <directhex> "up to 10%"
[12:02] <directhex> https://affiliate-program.amazon.co.uk/
[12:03] <ahayzen> directhex, thanks...will be interesting how much they get from this per release
[12:04] <directhex> a gorillion dollars!
[12:05] <ahayzen> him they could get quite a lot
[12:07] <ahayzen> say there are 5 million unity users (20 million Ubuntu users last time i check - say 25% on 12.10 and unity) .... then say that 10% of them spend £5 on amazon... if that revenue is from the total price and not the profit then Canonical would get £250,000!
[12:07] <ali1234> 10% is far too high
[12:08] <ahayzen> but then £5 is probably too low?
[12:08] <ali1234> not really
[12:08] <ahayzen> dunno was just putting random numbers in to see wht the outcome would be
[12:08] <ali1234> not enough to make up for 10% being two orers of magnitude too high
[12:09] <bashrc> and then what's the salary for canonical's staff?
[12:09] <ahayzen> well how many man hours does it take to create and run the servers that power the lens
[12:10] <bashrc> So ubuntu included a feature which only 0.1% of its users might actually use?
[12:11] <ali1234> when you look at who unity is actually used by, yeah pretty much
[12:11] <bashrc> :-)
[12:11] <ali1234> basically children, people who are scared of computers, and canonical employees
[12:12] <bashrc> that's a bit harsh
[12:12] <ali1234> children don't have disposable income. people who are afraid of computers are extremely afraid of online shopping
[12:12] <ali1234> harsh but true
[12:12] <ali1234> i forgot fanbois
[12:12] <bashrc> but if you notice in a lot of the YouTube tech reviews of distros they're usually running virtualbox within ubuntu with unity
[12:13] <ahayzen> so was it actually worth the hassle/backlash from implementing the feature for the small revenue gain they will get?
[12:13] <ali1234> if you notice a lot of those videos are done by 15 year old kids too
[12:14] <bashrc> not the ones I watch
[12:14] <ali1234> i wouldn't watch a review of a distro done in a virtual machine. i can do that myself.
[12:14] <ahayzen> i would have personally preferred them to have finished the spread design specification or Local Menus first
[12:18] <ali1234> yeah
[12:18] <ali1234> so i would estimate that perhaps 50% of ubuntu users are on unity
[12:19] <ali1234> of those maybe 25% are on 12.10
[12:19] <ali1234> that's 2.5 million
[12:19] <ali1234> assuming 20 million users is at all accurate
[12:31] <AlanBell> ali1234: the affiliate code isn't present in the desktop it is in products.ubuntu.com
[15:08] <alexcockell> Hi all...
[15:09] <alexcockell> Who's about - and who's got ITV1 tuned in?
[15:09] <christel> im about but i fear i am watching soccer saturday, whats on itv1? :)
[15:19] <SuperEngineer> boo!
[15:20] <alexcockell> A New Hope... Greedo's just had his nuts fried...
[15:21] <DJones> I just looked at the year of production for that, must admit, its 20 years younger than I thought, I thought it was more 1977, not 1997
[15:24] <Pendulum> A New Hope is 1977 originally (although I think it was originally just Star Wars). But Lucas made his CGI changes and re-released it as Star Wars: A New Hope in 1997
[15:24] <alexcockell> Yup - it's the SE version that's airing.
[15:25] <Pendulum> I don't know that it's possible to get ahold of the originals these days
[15:26] <Pendulum> (unless you know someone with them on VHS who can burn them to CD for you)
[15:28] <SuperEngineer> been trying out "other desktops" [gnome & cinnamon].  safely removed cinnamon via a ppa-purge - but it worries me removing gnome-desktop.
[15:28] <Pendulum> I don't mind the 97 versions. I'm not completely ballistic about the change he later made to part of the end of Return of the Jedi (after the movies I refuse to acknowledge were done), but I prefer the 97 or originals
[15:28] <SuperEngineer> is there a guarenteed safe way
[15:30] <SuperEngineer> [e.g. synaptic] I'm concerned that a removal might remove Unity / normal desktop stuff as well
[15:32] <alexcockell> Pendulum - they did see a DVD release in about 2000...
[15:32] <Pendulum> alexcockell: is that the one where they made the really controversial change? I remembered it being about 2004
[15:33] <Pendulum> (and I'd have expected it to be later than 2000)
[15:37] <DJones> I'm sure I've got a vhs video of the original hidden in a box under the stairs
[15:37] <Pendulum> yeah, it was with the 2004 box set that what I'd call the most controversial change happened to Return of the Jedi (it's the only change I really would prefer to revert to the original, I just didn't go ballistic the way a couple people I know who are Star Wars obsessed did)
[15:38] <Pendulum> most of the changes I can take or leave and there are a couple from the 97 SE that I think actually make the movies a bit better
[15:38] <alexcockell> Do you mean the "Wesa free!" line?
[15:38] <Pendulum> nope
[15:39] <alexcockell> Oh - I remember - 2004 - Hayden Photoshopped in?
[15:39] <Pendulum> yeah
[15:39] <Pendulum> that one
[15:39] <alexcockell> Didn't get that boxset.. I had the SE on VHS and the silver DVD boxset...
[15:41] <alexcockell> Oh - and had the two spools of highlights on Super 8 back in the day..
[15:41] <Pendulum> nice
[15:42]  * AlanBell goes to upgrade an Ubuntu Server CD
[15:42] <Pendulum> somewhere I have a burned version of the Christmas Special, but I don't know if I've ever tried to actually play it
[15:42] <alexcockell> I streamed it off Youtube... All I could say is OUCH.
[15:43] <alexcockell> Oh - no - was he Nostalgia Critic review.
[15:43] <Pendulum> yeah, it was more I was getting it because it was cheap on ebay and to just say I had it for the looks on people's faces ;)
[15:51] <SuperEngineer> oh well, I'll take that as a no then [rule 1: without knowledge of outcome... don't do]
[15:52] <alexcockell> re the Super 8 spools - as I was only 7-8, Dad spliced them into the correct sequence...
[15:57] <bittin> X
[16:02] <alexcockell> Hiya Bittin..
[16:02] <bittin> Hiya alan_g
[16:02] <bittin> alexcockell even
[17:12] <penguin42> heck, nPower's apparent 9% price rise is actually 19% for me
[17:17] <mattt> penguin42: i'm scared
[17:17] <mattt> early drop in temperatures + significant energy price rises won't bode well for a lot of people
[17:19] <penguin42> mattt: I switched to this when my previous fixed gas scheme finished only a month or so ago, there were no fixed ones available, so I went for the cheapest unfixed, and reckoned if it went up by 10% it would still be reasonalbe; what thjey've done is put the supposed average up 9.2% but massively changed the balance between standing rate/unit; this one was good for me precisely because it was a high standing rate
[17:22] <shauno> tihs is curious.  'screen' seems to have exploded on me overnight.  and I can't figure out why.  after running fine for 200+ days, it's now nagging me constantly.  (and it's survived a reboot)
[17:22] <penguin42> nagging?
[17:23] <shauno> I keep getting messages across the bottom row, complaining about trying to attach to a bad pid, or /dev/pts/3 not existing
[17:23] <shauno> which is getting annoying because I can't type until they're gone
[17:24] <penguin42> is /dev/pts/3 there?
[17:25] <shauno> it's not.  it's complained about 4 and 5 too, which are also not there.  but I'm not sure what's changed
[17:25] <penguin42> that's....odd
[17:25] <shauno> I'm on lucid, so the list of what's changed lately is incredibly small
[17:26] <penguin42> sounds like a job for strace
[17:27] <shauno> waiting for it to do it again so I can snag them.  but I haven't spotted rhyme nor reason yet, so no idea how long I'll be waiting
[17:29] <shauno> Attach attempt with bad pid(16312)!
[17:30] <shauno> This is the one that's perplexing.  I have no idea where it's getting this number from  (I rebooted recently, and am only up to pid 4500-ish)
[17:30] <penguin42> is pid ordering still deterministic these days?
[17:31] <shauno> they look fairly sequential looking at the contents of /proc
[17:31] <shauno> (I'm not sure if 10.04 counts as 'these days')
[17:34] <penguin42> shauno: Have you got multiuser mode enabled? There are a few people saying they got stuff like that with it on
[17:35] <shauno> not that I know of.  all I have in my screenrc is 'defutf8 on'
[17:37] <penguin42> shauno: looking through the screen source there is a lot of debug that can be turned on in the attacher.c code
[17:38] <penguin42> shauno: My best guess is that something is poking the socket in /tmp for some reason
[17:39] <shauno> it does seem something else is actually trying to attach.  I just got kicked out of the help screen because my window geometry changed  (mine didn't)
[17:40] <Darael> check ps for other running copies of screen that might be trying to attach?
[17:40] <shauno> ah, I have 3 copies of autossh running on my laptop.  that won't help.  ugh.
[17:43] <penguin42> autossh?
[17:43] <shauno> it's meant to sit in the background and try to relaunch ssh whenever it drops, because I use it for tunnels more than anything else
[17:44] <penguin42> how does that interact with screen?
[17:44] <shauno> but there really shouldn't be multiple copies running.  just killed them all of
[17:44] <shauno> screen's in my .bashrc
[17:45] <shauno> because I'm incredibly lazy :)  (although it does check to see if TERM is set to xterm first, else scp tries to attach screen, and life gets miserable)
[17:47] <penguin42> but why does it attaching break?
[17:49] <shauno> I'm not sure.  I still can't figure out where those pids came from either
[17:50] <shauno> no messages since I killed them and restarted it though.  very strange.  that's ticked away quite happily for years
[17:52] <penguin42> shauno: Almost though the stream of data on the socket got out of sync
[17:53] <shauno> most of these things work so well that I completely forget they're there, and just trust that when I hit my hotkey, screen is there waiting for me
[17:53] <penguin42> yeh, things you set up n years ago, forget about, forget how you set them up, until they break
[17:54] <shauno> and then when you see what's happening, you wonder who on earth bodged this all together in the first place
[17:54] <penguin42> haha yes :-)
[18:46] <ahayzen> Hi, having an issue with apt saying that an application depends on 'libglew1.6 (>= 1.6.0) but it is not installable'...but i have libglew1.8 installed...anyone know a way to tell apt to ignore the error or a workaround? Thanks Andy
[18:47] <AlanBell> ahayzen: what application?
[18:47] <ahayzen> AlanBell, trying to install vdrift from playdeb repo ;)
[18:47] <AlanBell> ahayzen: you should be able to install libglew1.6 that is a separate package
[18:48] <AlanBell> libglew1.8 is a different package to libglew1.6, it isn't a higher version number of the same thing
[18:48] <ahayzen> AlanBell, it doesn't appear in apt though?
[18:48] <AlanBell> as far as apt is concerned
[18:48] <AlanBell> !info libglew1.6
[18:48] <ahayzen> and it says it was removed here ... https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/amd64/libglew1.6
[18:49] <Darael> Wait, playdeb works?  How long has that been the case?  For months, getdeb and playdeb were both giving me 403s.
[18:49] <AlanBell> hmm, I appear to have it installed
[18:49] <ahayzen> i've done a clean install of 12.10 x64
[18:49] <AlanBell> I suspect you may be out of luck until the playdeb package gets fixed
[18:50] <AlanBell> maybe talk to cjwatson who removed it
[18:50] <AlanBell> he is in #ubuntu-motu
[18:50] <ahayzen> ok...may try compiling it again see if i can get round the odd permission errors i had last time....thanks
[18:50] <ahayzen> AlanBell, thanks
[19:37] <ahayzen> AlanBell, my bad, just realised that the software source says 'precise-getdeb' changed it to 'quantal-getdeb' seems to be installing something now ;)
[20:57] <czajkowski> evening
[20:58] <Laney> grargh
[20:58] <Laney> so not looking forward to the early start tomorrow
[21:01] <czajkowski> Laney: how bad is your start?
[21:01] <czajkowski> also dont forget clocks change
[21:02] <Laney> first train 0744
[21:02] <penguin42> ouch
[21:02] <czajkowski> oh nasty
[21:02] <czajkowski> I'll be awake but still
[21:02] <Laney> it takes twice as long to get to the airport than it does to get from there to cph
[21:03] <Laney> clocks back is a shitter indeed
[21:03] <Laney> i think i might not be very fun tomorrow night :P
[21:04] <penguin42> isn't that good for you? It means it's really 844 in todays clocks?
[21:04] <Laney> oh wait, it's an extra hour this time isn't it
[21:04] <Laney> spring forward, fall back
[21:05]  * czajkowski kicks Laney speak english! no such thing as all
[21:05] <czajkowski> *fall
[21:06] <dwatkins> "autumn back" isn't quite as memorable, though
[21:06] <Darael> Can we promote "autumn" as a verb synonymous to "fall", just to confuse Merkians?
[21:06]  * dwatkins autumns over
[21:07] <AlanBell> apparently they are starting to call it autumn
[21:07] <AlanBell> because fall is a silly name for it
[21:07] <dwatkins> agreed, AlanBell
[21:07] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19929249
[21:07] <Laney> yeah, the alternative doesn't help me remember :-)
[21:08]  * AlanBell would like the Americans to adopt the phrase "chuffed to bits"
[21:08] <czajkowski> it is a silly name
[21:08]  * Darael imagines it in an American accent, and shudders.
[21:09] <czajkowski> fall y'all
[21:09] <czajkowski> bah
[21:09] <dwatkins> I can think of a few english slang phrases that would raise an eyebrow in the US, due to the double meaning of certain words.
[21:09] <dwatkins> e.g. to steal a cigarette, in the colloquial form
[21:09] <AlanBell> yeah, that is a good one
[21:10] <Darael> I'd have translated that one as "beg" rather than "steal", but...
[21:10] <Darael> Point stands.
[21:11] <dwatkins> yeah, Darael - I used to say 'can I steal one...?' when I meant that.
[21:12] <Darael> dwatkins: That was my guess.  I do that too.  Just thinking that if we're trying to avoid colloquialisms to make meaning explicit, "beg" is probably better.
[21:12]  * dwatkins is watching XP being installed, a painful process on a good day but this machine has some kind of hardware problem or driver issues
[21:12] <dwatkins> indeed, Darael :)
[21:12] <dwatkins> I suggested they use Linux, but the kid's going to be playing games - I can't wait for Steam to be available with many games for Linux too
[21:12] <Darael> Well, except I don't do that with cigarettes.  But in analogous situations.
[21:13]  * dwatkins gave up stealing them
[21:13] <Laney> czajkowski: help me think what i've forgotten to pack
[21:13] <dwatkins> I've gone on holiday without my passport before.
[21:15] <czajkowski> Laney: tea bags
[21:15] <czajkowski> Laney: adaptor
[21:15] <czajkowski> Laney: gaffa tape!
[21:15] <Laney> hmm, tea, intriguing
[21:15] <Laney> i can't find my adaptors :(
[21:15] <AlanBell> dwatkins: I got through security at Heathrow on theopensourcerer's passport once
[21:15] <Laney> I swear every trip I buy a new one
[21:15] <dwatkins> AlanBell: I assume you look rather different ;)
[21:16] <Darael> dwatkins, AlanBell: I've flown on a railcard before.
[21:18] <AlanBell> dwatkins: most people don't mix us up
[21:18] <dwatkins> Darael: I did consider trying to fly with my driving license as ID.
[21:18] <dwatkins> Actually, it was the chunnel, not a flight.
[21:18] <Darael> dwatkins: Well, for domestic flights they'll take just about anything.
[21:19] <Darael> EU ones are slightly more stringent, but a DL might be enough.
[21:19] <dwatkins> yeah, I suspected they might not mind me not actually having a passport as I was staying within Europe, but didn't want to chance it, so rushed home and picked up my passport - got the train in the end, too.
[21:20] <Laney> I forgot to put GY!BE on my phone!
[21:20] <Laney> criminal
[21:20] <dwatkins> Canadian post-rock?
[21:21] <Laney> something like that
[21:21] <Laney> I Find it accompanies travelling very well
[21:25] <czajkowski> Laney: jumper scarf glovs and a hat
[21:27] <Laney> yeah got that
[21:27] <AlanBell> Laney: something to wear for the Gangnam Style flash mob on Tuesday
[21:27] <Laney> O_O
[21:27] <czajkowski> :o
[21:59] <cocoa117> how do u make ubuntu go to sleep when idled?
[22:01] <AlanBell> cocoa117: click on the battery in the top panel and go to power settings...
[22:01] <AlanBell> then you can set different timeouts for battery/AC power
[22:01] <mattt> evening all
[22:02] <cocoa117> AlanBell, what about a desktop computer?
[22:02] <AlanBell> oh, them! same thing but in the system settings area
[22:02] <cocoa117> AlanBell, can this be done on a server system?
[22:03] <AlanBell> erm, maybe, there was some work done on server suspend
[22:03] <AlanBell> and the metal as a service stuff might use it
[22:03] <czajkowski> right thats the heathrow express booked
[22:04] <AlanBell> off tomorrow czajkowski?
[22:04] <czajkowski> yarp
[23:53] <dubac0> hello
[23:54] <Darael> Good... morning.
[23:54] <dubac0> oh=?
[23:54] <Darael> Clocks don't go back for an hour.  It's five to one.
[23:55] <dubac0> and will be for an hour?
[23:55] <dubac0> kan haz time travel
[23:55] <dubac0> :P
[23:57] <Darael> Well, it's two to one now.
[23:57] <Darael> And in an hour and two minutes, it will be one again.
[23:59] <penguin42> time itself will be reversed
[23:59] <dubac0> Darael, 15