[06:03] <mapps> yo
[06:53] <MooDoo_> morning all
[08:20] <dvrr> good morning everyone
[08:20] <MooDoo> morning
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:22] <directhex> 13 SteamOS (wheezy, more or less) games consoles coming 2014: http://www.engadget.com/gallery/valve-steam-machines-press-shots/#!slide=2134465
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> now all we need is a few Linux games
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> high-profile ones
[08:31] <dvrr> tomcat as service  i created  it's working but  pid (process Id) not created  how to create PID  my tomcat script http://paste.ubuntu.com/6707920/
[08:32] <dvrr> DooMoo
[08:35] <MooDoo> I thought when tomcat starts, it's created it's own pid
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: every process has its own pid
[08:38] <dvrr> i  am using  monit  tool  to monitoring  tomcat server
[08:38] <diplo_> Morning all
[08:38] <MooDoo> moring diplo_
[08:39] <diplo_> Drenched again! It downpours as I get out of the car to walk the kids into school
[08:39] <diplo_> Fed up with it now
[08:39] <diplo> I have a moat around my house where the ground is soooo waterlogged!
[08:40] <MartijnVdS> diplo: is it filled with alligators? ddo you have a drawbridge?
[08:43] <diplo> I need one, will take a photo later.. the path at the end of my garden has about a 4foot length of puddle about 4-5 inches deep
[08:47] <MooDoo> ouch
[08:48] <dvrr> it is passable to monitoring   tomcat server  using monit tool or another tools (monit  also i search in google) please guide me
[08:50] <MooDoo> what you breaking DJones ;)
[08:50] <DJones> Just seeing if we get a profusion of funkyhats rejoining
[08:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> I do think Valve are playing a very clever game [pun intended] here: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/01/valves-gabe-newell-offers-more-steam-machines-than-speaking-minutes-at-ces/
[08:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> 13 Steam Machine manufacturers.
[08:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Loads of competition
[08:51] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, and only one powered by intel graphics
[08:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh.
[09:01] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, a scary number using fglrx, considering how bad fglrx is
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> but AMD APUs are so cheap!
[09:04] <directhex> MartijnVdS, which is why they're being used
[09:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hopefully this will encourage AMD to make their Linux drivers better then ;-)
[09:04] <dvee> how to  monitoring  (MySQL Database Server) queries which are taking longer time
[09:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> dvee: slow-query-log
[09:17] <jussi> DJones: http://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-tabpro-8-4-official-specs-features-pricing-release-date-330966/ - some more info :)
[09:19] <DJones> jussi: That looks interesting, the only downside I can see from a quick glance is the touchwiz overlay on top of Android
[09:19] <jussi> DJones: Im certain there will be a cyanogenmod for it (and touchwiz isnt all bad tbh)
[09:20] <jussi> it actually looks incredibly nice device to me
[09:20] <jussi> Im sure its going to be crazy expensive though...
[09:21] <DJones> Wouldn't surprise me if it was around £350, maybe even higher
[09:22] <SuperMatt> oh why the home screen packed full of widgets?
[09:23] <SuperMatt> I can't be the only person that hates it?
[09:23] <DJones> The Tab 3 Lite looks as though that will sell for $130, so I'd expect the 8" to be be a fair bit higher than a Nexus 7, pricing may even around  the nearest sized ipad
[09:24] <DJones> SuperMatt: No, I hardly have any widgets on mine, I just use the home screen as the app launcher, if I need a widget, I'll stick it on one of the side screens
[09:25] <SuperMatt> I think manufacturers are confusing our desire for information with a want to have it forced down our throats
[09:25] <SuperMatt> I want my information at my own pace
[09:26] <DJones> At least there's always the trash bin :)
[09:27] <DJones> Doesn't matter what you get, whether its Apple, Android or Windows, you tailor it to how you use it, manufacturers probably just include half the apps for a kickback from the developer
[09:34] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:34] <bashrc> hi
[09:35] <popey> Yo
[09:36] <MooDoo> morning mornign
[09:52] <jussi> I should totally learn how to use LO properly someday
[09:52] <jussi> in the meantime, can someone remind me how to make a yes/no dropdown box in a column of cells?
[09:59] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[10:04] <Laney> JamesTait: is it over?
[10:05] <JamesTait> Laney, "it"?
[10:05] <Laney> well, I have no idea what "day" it is
[10:05] <MooDoo> mornign JamesTait
[10:05] <Laney> I don't know quite how to deal with that :P
[10:05] <MooDoo> and Laney how are you two today?
[10:05] <JamesTait> Laney, I think popey has taken over that duty. ;)
[10:06] <JamesTait> Hi MooDoo. :) Very well thanks, yourself?
[10:06] <MooDoo> JamesTait: yeah I'm ok thanks, just looking at my CV, think it needs updating lol
[10:06] <Laney> doing alright
[10:09] <xnox> It really ain't a rainfall, but a skyfall
[10:10] <foobarry> does anyone else have problems with damp stuff in their loft at the mo?
[10:11] <foobarry> stuff is going moudly
[10:12] <MooDoo> nope, you have a hot house as that sounds like condensation or a leak?
[10:12] <foobarry> i think my roof is open under the eaves
[10:12] <foobarry> for air flow
[10:13] <jussi> MooDoo: you are looking for a job?
[10:13] <MooDoo> jussi: always on the look out :) just seen a nice ahem windows ahem one in nottingham
[10:13] <foobarry> windows jobs should come with a precription for gaviscon
[10:13] <MooDoo> lol
[10:13] <jussi> what is your specialty?
[10:14] <MooDoo> jussi: jack of all trades lol I'm a team leader for an ISP at the moment, was 2nd line support
[10:14] <jussi> ahh ok
[10:14] <jussi> btw, anyone with answers to my question?
[10:14] <jussi>  :D
[10:16] <dwatkins> jussi: a radio button in a table?
[10:17] <jussi> dwatkins: no, just a simple yes/no dropdown. I will also need a 3 way dropdown soon, so Im hoping to learn the technique...
[10:19] <dwatkins> jussi: you mean an <option> list? http://reference.sitepoint.com/html/option
[10:20] <foobarry> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/diy-it-guy/diy-add-drop-down-lists-to-libreoffice-spreadsheets/
[10:22] <foobarry> data validity, list, type yes no click ok
[10:22] <foobarry> not intuitive unless you are told
[10:22] <jussi> foobarry: ahh that was easy. exactly what I was after
[10:22] <jussi> foobarry: and dwatkins thank you very much
[10:24] <foobarry> i've resorted to buying meds over the internet because it takes 2 weeks to see my doctor
[10:24] <foobarry> something is wrong with NHS
[10:25] <jussi> foobarry: just be thankful you dont live in the US without insurance ;)
[10:25] <foobarry> not sure it would make a difference
[10:26] <foobarry> i haven't seen my doc in few years, except for when i showed her my toe last year and she said meh
[10:26] <jussi> yeah, but have you seen the price of meds in the US?
[10:26] <foobarry> more expensive than high st chemist?
[10:27] <foobarry> i haz some medical issue that are never solved in a 5 minute appt with the doc, so they never get fixed
[10:27] <foobarry> because docs aren't intersted unless it can be fixed with antibitiocs
[10:28] <foobarry> at least the ones in london
[10:28] <Laney> all doctors in london
[10:28] <Laney> complain and/or change surgery
[10:29] <foobarry> what surgery in london has a doctor that isn't treating patients like a conveyor belt ?
[10:29] <foobarry> population issues i guess
[10:33] <foobarry> whats a good font for writing technical design documents?
[10:33] <MartijnVdS> courier 8-)
[10:33] <jussi> foobarry: comic sans? :P
[10:33]  * MartijnVdS tends to go with "whatever the default is"
[10:34] <foobarry> times NR
[10:34] <jussi> I am particularly fond of Deja vu sans :D
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> Computer Modern :)
[10:34] <MooDoo> i'm with jussi comic sans ;)
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> but.. Computer Modern! LaTeX default font!
[10:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Liberation
[10:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ubuntu!
[10:35] <jussi> btw foobarry - is there a way in LO to automatically make rows alternating light and dark shades? (for readability)
[10:35] <foobarry> dunno jussi
[10:36] <jussi> if someone else knows...
[10:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Jussi - I just C&P your question into google. This was the first answer: http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/9205/is-there-a-way-to-add-background-color-to-alternate-rows-of-a-tablespreadsheet/
[10:36] <foobarry> http://inspirationlab.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/infographiclarge_v2.png
[10:36] <jussi> hrm, do they have hapankorppu  in the UK?
[10:39] <diddledan> o_O
[10:39] <diddledan> hanky panky we have
[10:39] <diddledan> that's n0rty tho
[10:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ooops: https://twitter.com/ntoll/status/420494122118422528
[10:41] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: so BT users can't use IRC [freenode] unless they opt out the controls things?
[10:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Or you have to explicitly allow freenode.net from the comment in one of the other tweets on that page
[10:42] <diddledan> bt have replied as of 14 mintues ago disclaiming it
[10:43] <jussi> diddledan: hrm
[10:43] <diddledan> "parental controls are not on as default and any site can be added to the 'allowed list' by the account holder"
[10:43] <bashrc> I'm a BT user and I don't have trouble with freenode.  Or at least not recently
[10:43] <jussi> on wikipedia it claims to be rusks. but...
[10:43] <Myrtti> jussi: finncrisp? yes.
[10:43] <jussi> Myrtti: really? wow.
[10:44] <Myrtti> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=254926506
[10:44] <jussi> wow. I am somewhat amazed
[10:44] <bashrc> is this something added by BT very recently - like in the last few days?
[10:44]  * jussi nibbles on a garlic flavoured one...
[10:44] <foobarry> when will it ever stop raining?
[10:45] <DJones> I can't get to freenode.net at all from a BT connection
[10:45] <MooDoo> I watched an interview with kim.com last night, seems such an interesting bloke
[10:45] <jussi> foobarry: you live in the uk....
[10:45] <DJones> I just get "This page can't be displayed" using both IE & Chrome, no warning about it being a blocked site
[10:46] <Myrtti> jussi: http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/Shopping/FindProducts.aspx?Query=finn+crisp&Store=Waitrose
[10:46] <jussi> I was under the impression it never stops raining, it just gets a little less...
[10:46] <foobarry> since october, it hasn't stopped
[10:46] <bashrc> I'll have to try later when I get back home.  Not on a BT connection currently
[10:47] <ali1234> real ISPs remain unaffected
[10:49] <directhex> rain has stopped here. blue skies, sun shining
[10:49] <directhex> windy
[10:49] <Laney> yeah, it's quite nice here
[10:50] <foobarry> bah
[10:50] <MooDoo> oooo sun
[10:50] <jussi> pure greyness here
[10:51] <foobarry> actualyli have a doc written in century gothic here, which is akin to comic sans
[10:52] <bashrc> internet censorship seems to be getting out of hand.  I mean what does freenode have to do with terrorism?
[10:53] <popey> who said terrorism?
[10:53] <bashrc> also just blocking all of freenode seems stupid
[10:53] <popey> It's all about the children.
[10:53] <bashrc> so ubuntu-uk is too scary for children?
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> because ISPs always know better than parents
[10:53] <jussi> "just think of the children"?
[10:53] <popey> s/ubuntu-uk/chat/
[10:53] <foobarry> "nobody under 30 uses irc "
[10:53] <foobarry> :P
[10:53] <popey> i suspect that many chat systems are blocked
[10:53] <bashrc> it really is becoming a nanny state
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: only now?
[10:54] <foobarry> it is a democracy, we could always vote for the other nanny party
[10:54] <bashrc> hah, maybe it's just the latest development in a longer trend
[10:54] <MooDoo> don't forget it's opt out, so not really a problem is it?
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> you could always start your own non-nanny party 8-)
[10:55] <bashrc> opt out means people are never likely to encounter certain parts of the internet
[10:55] <foobarry> they tend to have unpalatable views
[10:55] <Myrtti> bt isn't blocking freenode
[10:55] <jussi> MartijnVdS: then they would make a law about that...
[10:55] <Myrtti> they're just slow
[10:55] <Myrtti> it's not malicious or intentional
[10:55] <bashrc> it would seem to me that freenode is entirely legitimate
[10:56] <popey> Myrtti: dns update or something?
[10:56] <Myrtti> something like that
[10:57] <foobarry> maybe they should block the web
[10:57] <foobarry> there's bad things on the web
[10:57] <Myrtti> and yes, I'm intentionally being vague
[10:57] <shauno> they're trying :/
[10:57] <bashrc> ban cars.  they're dangerous
[10:57] <bashrc> it's getting like China
[10:57] <foobarry> lol
[10:58] <foobarry> not quite
[10:58] <shauno> it's closer to 'quite' than 'not quite'; just blocking different topics.  for now.
[10:59] <foobarry> are we just talking about GFoC for now
[10:59] <foobarry> rather than their human rights issues
[10:59] <foobarry> freedom of expression and worship is still allowed in UK for now
[11:00] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[11:00] <shauno> curious, is it still freedom of expression if they can block it?
[11:01] <foobarry> you can still walk down the street dressed like an eejit though
[11:01] <MooDoo> brobostigon: mornign
[11:01] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[11:01] <Myrtti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
[11:01] <supergerbil> no, I am able to connect to freenode via my home server, although this doesn't use the standard DNS settings
[11:02] <MooDoo> nothing is blocked if you opt out right?
[11:02] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:02] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[11:02] <bashrc> I havn't opted in or out of anything as far as I know
[11:03] <foobarry> MooDoo: except you are on "a list" :0
[11:03] <diddledan> foobarry: MooDoo: it's the "perverts list"
[11:03] <foobarry> yep
[11:03] <bashrc> really?  That's news to me
[11:03] <diddledan> i.e. I click a button to tell the governement that I'm a pervert
[11:03] <MooDoo> lol if you've got nothing to hide then there isn't a problem is there
[11:03] <foobarry> even if you want to use an alterantive blocking service
[11:04] <foobarry> blocking service is useful to me, if i can control it
[11:04] <diddledan> tisn't useful for me. at all
[11:05] <bashrc> I agree that a blocking service would be useful if it was under the control of the user, not a secret list made up by someone in a government department
[11:05] <foobarry> opendns seems to work ok
[11:05] <diddledan> the only blocking systems that are at all relevant to me are those that block virus c&c servers
[11:06] <foobarry> i turned up the nudity filter pretty high, only once fell foul as i clicked on a story in teh sun
[11:06] <foobarry> wanted to test how it worked in normal usage having the setings set to strict
[11:06] <davmor2> Morning MooDoo how's life up Norff
[11:06] <foobarry> i think it banned lingerie etc too
[11:08] <diddledan> WHAT? no lingerie?!
[11:08] <MooDoo> davmor2: yeah pretty cool thanks :) what about you, getting ready for all the fun with the LTS release in april?
[11:08] <diddledan> that's far too strict :-p
[11:08] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: but the CHILDREN
[11:09] <davmor2> MooDoo: I haven't got time to think that far ahead
[11:09] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: they're not allowed to wear lingerie?
[11:09] <MooDoo> davmor2: lol get your people to do it while you drink tea :D
[11:09] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: ...
[11:10] <diddledan> better parenting trumps any form of blocklist
[11:10] <foobarry> both is helpful
[11:10] <foobarry> IMHO
[11:10] <MooDoo> diddledan: my son is just getting to that age where curiosity is getting the better of him with youtube, so we're starting to have to watch him a little closer lol
[11:11] <diddledan> yeah I can appreciate that a block list will aid in parenting decisions, but I don't like that it's default-on
[11:11] <SuperMatt> I've just discovered you can get firefox plugins to re-enable the blink tag
[11:11] <foobarry> the annoying thing with youtube settings in if you chose safe mode, you can't see comments without clicking off the video onto another screen
[11:11] <SuperMatt> my life is complete
[11:11] <diddledan> SuperMatt: myspace ftw
[11:11] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: you quit now?
[11:11] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: geocities!
[11:11] <diddledan> SuperMatt: even better, geocities ftw
[11:11] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: beat me!
[11:12] <SuperMatt> I miss geocities
[11:12] <foobarry> MooDoo: agree, when we were young, we didn't have the possibilty of pr0n being just  2 clicks away
[11:12] <diddledan> foobarry: it was too slow to be a click away :-p
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: you'd just find it on walks in the woods?
[11:12] <SuperMatt> http://themarqueeblink.com/ <- yes!
[11:12] <foobarry> MartijnVdS: i found a massive stash in the woods once
[11:12] <knightwise> hey everyone :)
[11:12] <foobarry> 100s of mags
[11:13] <MooDoo> foobarry: it's not pr0n, he's 5 and I caught it watching some video where people thought it would be a good idea to hit each other in the bit with a baseball bat to see how much it hurt, he was in histerics :D but we thought it's not suitable
[11:13] <shauno> MartijnVdS: oddly, that seems to be a very common story.  never understood that one
[11:13] <foobarry> threw it in the river then told my mates who almost beat me up
[11:13] <foobarry> MooDoo: tom and jerry?
[11:13] <MooDoo> foobarry: no more like dirty sanchez or something like that :d
[11:15] <foobarry> there's a difference between going to look for something wilfully and getting tempted to click on stuff thats in the sidebar
[11:15] <MooDoo> he's 5 he's curious lol
[11:15] <shauno> so, odd situation.  I'm stuck in my hotel room because they're trying to close the hotel, but I don't particularly want to be out on the street ahead of an 11pm flight
[11:15] <foobarry> which town?
[11:16] <shauno> bratislava
[11:17] <shauno> I'm suspecting they've just lost their franchise, because they're censoring the signage with bedsheets?
[11:17] <foobarry> oh, close the hotel down?
[11:17] <foobarry> woops
[11:17] <foobarry> don't you have to checkout at 9am or something?
[11:18] <shauno> nah, I paid though till tomorrow for just this reason
[11:18] <foobarry> i hate foreign travel
[11:24] <shauno> usually I love travelling.  but less fun when things start going wrong, delivered in just enough broken english that you're not entirely sure *what* went wrong
[11:25] <brobostigon> whats a good prgram, to create a google map type map, of a MC world?
[11:26] <DJones> brobostigon: The servers I play on use gmap
[11:26] <brobostigon> DJones: ok, let me look that up, thank you.
[11:27] <DJones> I think its called minecraft overviewer
[11:27] <shauno> I'm using overviewer.org (they have a deb/buntu repo)
[11:27] <DJones> That looks like the same one
[11:28] <brobostigon> ok, let me try that one, looks simple enough.
[11:29] <foobarry> how can i set my default font type and size for a document in LO write?
[11:29] <foobarry> keeps defaulting to times roman or 12pt font
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: that's because your template/style is set to that
[11:29] <foobarry> when i start a new para
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: you need to edit the style
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: in the "styles" dropdown (standard, heading 1, etc.) click "More" then right-click the one you want to change
[11:31] <foobarry> ah, some is default style and some are "text body"
[11:32] <foobarry> thanks
[11:48] <foobarry> should the headband of a pair of headphone sit onthe highest point of the head, or in front of it, or behind? can't find the comfy spot
[11:48] <popey> i went to the loo with my bluetooth headphones on the other day, looked down, nearly dropped them in the loo
[11:49] <popey> close shave
[11:52] <shauno> I find mine funny when I misplace my phone.  walking around the house listening to "connected .. didoo .. connected .."
[11:53] <directhex> arsen_, remember your enduring immortality on bash.org?
[11:54] <MooDoo> http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/06/intel-edison/ :D
[12:08] <Laney> In an openvpn config file, how do I specify to not accept the pushed DNS server?
[12:10] <Laney> I just noticed that all of my DNS is going over the tunnel which scares me
[12:10] <bigcalm> I get that when I have to use a client's VPN. So I only use the VPN when I really have to
[12:10] <bigcalm> Most annoying, and slow
[12:11] <Laney> I'd like to auto connect
[12:11] <Laney> actually, since resources on this VPN have their own TLD, I'd like to have split DNS
[12:12] <Laney> but that seems like it would be faff
[12:19] <Laney> oho, looks like dnsmasq can do that
[12:54] <jussi> eboooks from amazon are expensive. which sucks.
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> jussi: they have discounts often, it's like steam game buying
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> jussi: just wait for the right time
[12:54] <DJones> jussi: http://www.freebooksifter.com/
[12:55] <jussi> yeah, but the ones I want are rarely available on discount, at least in my experience
[12:55] <foobarry> market is flooded with smutty romance novels
[12:55] <jussi> like: http://www.amazon.com/The-Longest-Day-Classic-D-Day-ebook/dp/B000SEIXZW - I would actually like to read that...
[12:55] <DJones> jussi: Generally out of copyright/1st books but occasionally some decent ones (not often)
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> jussi: isn't that out of copyright yet?
[12:55] <foobarry> also amazon tend to reduce to 99p some books instead of making them free
[12:55] <jussi> MartijnVdS: no idea.
[12:56] <brobostigon> jabber.taylorworld.me.uk/mcmap/ i have it working, :)
[12:56] <foobarry> even out of copyright books are 69p on amazon
[12:56] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: so you download them from Gutenberg
[12:57] <foobarry> yep
[12:57] <foobarry> although the formatting is often sucky on both amazon and gutenberg
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> google books also has a good selection of out-of-© books
[12:58] <foobarry> still haven't found a way to buy magazines digitally while getting to keep the magazine
[13:06] <Wobbo> Hey
[13:06] <Wobbo> Any idea why Wine, Wine config even, stuck at 13.10? With all my other Ubuntu, I have no other (also 13.10), do not have this problem.
[13:07] <popey> eh?
[13:10] <Wobbo> So, Wine does not work.
[13:11] <diddledan> eh?
[13:13] <jussi> I still cant understand how a kindle edition can be more expensive than a brand new paperback...
[13:13] <foobarry> lack of solidarity among buyers
[13:14] <ali1234> perhaps it's because paperbacks come out much later?
[13:14] <ali1234> how does ebook pricing compare to hardbacks?
[13:16] <DJones> In the UK, ebooks can be more expensive because the retailer has to charge VAT on the electronic version, but don't on a paper copy of the same book
[13:17] <bigcalm> Background just changed to this and I really want to play it! http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1258456
[13:17] <foobarry> the ebook reflects the price of the hardback if no paperback is out yet (ripoff britain)
[13:18] <dwatkins> bigcalm: not entirely dissimilar: http://www.ghostcontrol.biz/
[13:34] <marxjohnson> I reinstalled a family friend's 7-year old Vista PC with 12.04 LTS after a good hoovering out. Saw her for the first time since today. She said "It's a lot faster, and really clear and simple" \o/
[13:34] <marxjohnson> She also said "I really like the little rubbish bin. What should I put in it?" :)
[13:34] <popey> heh
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> aww :)
[13:35] <diddledan> lol @ rubbish bin
[13:35] <popey> "Embarrasing photos of me when I was little" is the correct answer
[13:35] <marxjohnson> not that old a friend :)
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> "Embarrasing photos of yourself when you were little" then?
[13:42] <foobarry> we've all got embarrassing photos of popey when he was little in ours
[13:43] <popey> ☻
[13:43] <ali1234> i set my dad up with unity
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> I set up my grandmother with 12.04
[13:43] <foobarry> http://www.idontwannagrowup.com/1055/baby-pictures/funny-cute-18-adorable-baby-elvis-faces/
[13:43] <ali1234> he grumbled about the buttons being on the left and not being able to find menus
[13:43] <foobarry> these are hideous
[13:43] <Laney> haha
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: your dad already knew Windows then
[13:44] <ali1234> yeah of course he did. everyone over the age of 20 does
[13:44] <Laney> I set my mum up with Ubuntu phone... she complained about Mir vs. Wayland and CLAs
[13:44] <dwatkins> My dad doesn't want anything but XP.
[13:44] <popey> hahaha
[13:44] <foobarry> i understand dwatkins
[13:44] <popey> my mum didnt
[13:44] <foobarry> i felt the same about gnome2
[13:45] <popey> she hadn't used a computer at all before ubuntu
[13:45] <Laney> did she throw it in your face and say "THIS ISN'T ARCH"
[13:45] <popey> never used windows
[13:45] <dwatkins> He's got a whole list of applications he uses, including Eudora for mail (which is ancient), and knows where to find things like the options, has files in certain formats (years worth of mail etc.) so is unlikely to want to switch to anything but possibly Windows 7.
[13:45] <Laney> eudora :D
[13:45] <foobarry> think you need to set up 2 machines side by side
[13:45] <Laney> that's in my mind bucket alongside trumpet winsock
[13:45] <foobarry> one mega fast and slick
[13:45] <MartijnVdS> Pegasus?
[13:45] <popey> Pegasus mail! OMG
[13:46] <popey> That ones in the vault alongside Lotus CC:Mail
[13:46] <foobarry> netscape communicator
[13:46] <foobarry> on solaris
[13:46] <foobarry> \o/
[13:46] <dwatkins> popey: we still get calls from customers using Lotus notes.
[13:46] <ali1234> he's happy anyway because i spec'd the PC to be really fast. it boots in about 5 seconds and everything loads up instantly. his old XP computer took about 5 minutes to boot up.
[13:46] <foobarry> lotus notes != email client, although people try to use it as that
[13:46] <Laney> and agent news reader
[13:46] <popey> My mum called me today with a support question
[13:46] <popey> for some reason her pc was at the grub menu
[13:46] <ali1234> as long as it is fast, normal people don't care about the UI
[13:46] <Laney> wow, that still exists
[13:46] <popey> I think she may have leaned on the keyboard at boot
[13:47] <dwatkins> at least that was just a case of rebooting
[13:47] <popey> I said "press enter" and she said "the mouse doens't work", "No, Enter, on the keyboard"
[13:47] <popey> "Oh, its working now"
[13:47] <ali1234> "where is the any key?"
[13:47] <popey> thats the first support question for a month or so
[13:48] <popey> last time was that she had zoomed the browser in and couldn't see all of a photo attached to an email
[13:48] <popey> "scroll right"
[13:48] <popey> "Oh! There's the baby!"
[13:48] <popey> Not an expert user.
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> apparently, Pegasus is *still* being developed
[13:49] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: mail client?
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> yes
[13:49] <foobarry> maybe chromebooks are good for basic users
[13:49] <foobarry> although not many with larger screens
[13:49] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: not used that in years :D
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: they are, yes. If they don't need "real" office suites etc.
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I last used it in 98
[13:49] <ali1234> does anyone know how to set firefox zoom back to default for all webpages?
[13:49] <popey> good question
[13:50] <ali1234> he doesn't need to zoom any more because he's got a 24" monitor now
[13:51] <foobarry> ali1234: new user profile?
[13:51] <foobarry> always good to clear it out 1x per year
[13:51] <ali1234> apparently he learned how to zoom but then forgot because now he doesn't know how to fix it when he goes to a webpage and it's huge
[13:51] <ali1234> i have had the same firefox profile for like 8 years
[13:51] <foobarry> they get full of cruft
[13:51] <ali1234> i don't keep my homedir, i just copy ~/.mozilla and ~/.ssh
[13:51] <popey> they do?
[13:51] <foobarry> yes, there's dbs that grow huge
[13:51] <popey> oh, thats easily fixed
[13:51] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: there's an extension, "nosquint" which can do that apparently
[13:51] <foobarry> and other such problems
[13:52]  * popey hugs chromium
[13:52] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: i don't want to change the defaults - i just want firefox to forget the custom zoom level it already has for all sites
[13:52] <foobarry> running a dept with ~150 rolling users on firefox on automounted on NFS tends to find a few issues over time
[13:52] <foobarry> mostly related to adobe plugins :S
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: have you tried with that extension?
[13:53] <ali1234> no, because the description of it doesn't match with what i want to do
[13:53] <foobarry> gmail chat just fell over
[13:53] <marxjohnson> ali1234: For clearing Firefox zoom, Ctrl-0
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> http://en.kioskea.net/faq/14647-firefox-set-a-default-zoom-level-for-all-websites
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> marxjohnson: that's just for a sginle site/domain
[13:54] <ali1234> marxjohnson: yes i know. i want to do it for all sites
[13:54] <ali1234> without having to go to each site and press ctrl-0
[13:54] <marxjohnson> MartijnVdS: ORLY? I didn't realise it did it per-domain
[13:54] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: ^ that config option disables per-domain zoom levels
[13:54] <ali1234> right but i don't want to disable it, i just want to forget all the current settings
[13:55] <ali1234> i guess i'll go ask on a firefox channel or something
[13:55] <foobarry> its good to have another firefox profile just for quidco ;)
[13:55] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: maybe it forgets when you disable, fiddle zoom level then re-enable?
[13:55] <ali1234> maybe
[13:56] <popey> oooh http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon/
[13:56] <foobarry> non removable battery :(
[13:56] <Laney> 15 months
[13:57] <foobarry> how can they say stunning display when its 900 on vertical
[14:02] <popey> Laney: until laptop refresh?
[14:02] <Laney> ja
[14:02] <popey> ☻
[14:03] <popey> 10
[14:03] <Laney> this one has been going since early 2010
[14:03] <Laney> quite good really
[14:09] <popey> wossat?
[14:09] <Laney> macbook pro
[14:12] <directhex> my desktop pc is old :(
[14:13] <MooDoo> desktop pc ... luxury ;)
[14:13] <SuperMatt> I've had my desktop PC for about 15 years now
[14:13] <SuperMatt> I realised not so long ago that there hasn't been a single stage in my PC's history where a componant hasn't been carried forward from a previous configureation
[14:15] <SuperMatt> apparently that's called "ship of theseus," "theseus's paradox" or "trigger's broom"
[14:15] <dwatkins> not a trojan part?
[14:16] <directhex> ok, yes, it's been upgraded since first build
[14:16] <directhex> but it's still the same cpu/mobo
[14:16] <marxjohnson> I always understood "Trigger's brrom" to be where no part of the original is in the current incarnation
[14:16] <dwatkins> It sounds like a euphamism.
[14:16] <marxjohnson> broom*
[14:16] <dwatkins> ...or a star cluster
[14:17] <SuperMatt> marxjohnson: indeed. In talking about my computer, there really is zero part of the original for 15 years ago, but to me it's the same one because at each upgrade *something* has stayed the same
[14:18] <dwatkins> evolution at work
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> evolution doesn't quite work like that
[14:19]  * dwatkins was just being silly
[14:20] <SuperMatt> it's a problem with us humans applying permanence to something which we have named
[14:20] <dwatkins> I call my computer ubuntu-pc
[14:20] <SuperMatt> by naming the computer "my computer" and replacing all the parts, bit by bit, and computer with all the original parts could only be called "the other computer"
[14:21] <dwatkins> Occasionally it morphs into windows8-pc
[14:21] <dwatkins> ...but only temporarily
[14:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> is brobostigon here?
[14:24] <brobostigon> yes.
[14:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah cool.
[14:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Happy new year.
[14:24] <brobostigon> happy new year
[14:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> I might be meeting a prospect in Banbury tomorrow for a quick meeting/snack lunch. Need somewhere with decent wifi. Any recommendation?
[14:25] <brobostigon> what kind of place are you looking for? food/beer wise?
[14:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> quietish won't be drinking as will be driving. Somewhere to have a business meeting, laptops and a sarny really.
[14:26] <brobostigon> white horse will probably fit the bill,
[14:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks. Looking at their website now. Cheers brobostigon
[14:29] <brobostigon> youre welcome TheOpenSourcerer
[14:29] <foobarry> 10.99 for a 256 page paperback? you kidding me amazon?
[14:31] <dwatkins> demand the kindle version
[14:34] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it'll be 11.49
[14:34] <MartijnVdS> welcome to Kindle-land
[14:34] <foobarry> kindle version £4.72
[14:35] <foobarry> but ebay versions in paperback £2.50 delivered.
[14:35] <foobarry> i wasnt a kindle version for the ebay price
[14:35] <foobarry> :(
[14:39] <diplo> I'd buy the ebay paperback and grab the kindle version from another source
[14:39] <SuperMatt> I don't understand why kindle prices are more expensive
[14:40] <dwatkins> it's all those electrons they kill making the book
[14:41] <DJones> foobarry: How much is an electronic copy on the kobo/google play websites
[14:41] <diplo> I'd rather buy direct from the author at lower prices
[14:41] <foobarry> probably the same, although i'm avoiding kobo after what happened last time
[14:42] <foobarry> google play £4.72..
[14:42] <foobarry> coincidence?
[14:43] <foobarry> shame you can't buy 2nd hand ebook eh?
[14:44]  * foobarry tries the library...
[14:45] <foobarry> 10 copies...not in my borough
[14:46] <popey> diplo: might be better to contact the author and find out where they get the best mark-up
[14:46] <dwatkins> indeed, foobarry - that's a great shame, you can lend them, but only in certain situations or something
[14:47] <diplo> Yeah going to try that, I like Goodreads as quite a few authors actually talk back on there
[14:48] <foobarry> diplo: you mean TPB
[14:48] <foobarry> or i could rip every page out of the book and scan as a pdf
[14:49] <foobarry> is it still illegal to download an ebook of something you actually own? i guess so
[14:50] <diplo> foobarry: More than likely yes
[14:50] <diplo> About illegal
[14:50] <diddledan> are you allowed to make a backup copy of your physical-book in case of fire or theft?
[14:50] <foobarry> illegal but maybe ethical
[14:51] <diplo> Well the first thing I do if I buy an ebook is run it through Calibre and remove any restrictions so Amazon and anyone else can't remove it.
[14:51] <diddledan> most DVDs used to say you're allowed to make a single backup
[14:51] <diplo> But tbh, I've never used wireless on my kindle so not sure they could connect
[14:51] <diddledan> so I'm assuming papery-books are the same ;-)
[14:51] <foobarry> my books are in the loft going mouldy
[14:51] <diplo> heh mine are in the loft as well foobarry, 100's of them
[14:52] <foobarry> not getting read, but if they were ebooks they would be
[14:52] <foobarry> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/magazine/04FOB-ethicist-t.html?_r=0
[14:52] <diplo> Oh, I've read all mine that are up there
[14:52] <foobarry> if i buy a 2nd hand book, the author doesn't get paid either
[14:52] <MartijnVdS> yeah I've switched to e-books almost entirely
[14:53] <diplo> I had, but my mum bought me 6 paperbacks for Xmas, so more to add to the loft once read
[14:53] <foobarry> considering they only just changed the cd/tape format shifting law...
[14:56] <foobarry> i think that allow 1 personal copy now dunnit?
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> Come to the Netherlands, we allow any number of personal copies ("reasonable" is the limit)
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[15:04] <foobarry> It has previously been illegal in the UK to rip songs from a CD to a digital player or transfer eBooks, music, films and games from one device to another
[15:04] <foobarry> so we can rip CDs, can we rip books?
[15:05] <bashrc> rip all the things
[15:06] <foobarry> i ripped a book, now i need sellotape
[15:06] <MartijnVdS> Chello-tape
[15:07] <popey> it still is illegal to rip cds
[15:07] <foobarry> popey: no that changed
[15:07] <popey> the law hasn't changed in that regard, it was to be reviewed though
[15:07] <popey> [citation needed]
[15:08]  * MartijnVdS gives popey a citation for ripping CDs
[15:08] <diddledan> ergh @ wikipedia cite all the things
[15:08] <foobarry> "is to be made legal for the first time under government plans."
[15:08] <foobarry> dec 2012
[15:08] <foobarry> argh, aint they dunnit yet?
[15:08] <popey> indeed
[15:09] <diplo> http://www.zdnet.com/uk/cd-ripping-to-be-permitted-following-uk-copyright-reform-7000009127/
[15:09] <diplo> Being made legal in 2013
[15:09] <foobarry> how old is dr who?
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: 50 years + 1 month
[15:09] <foobarry> Broadcasts and cable programmes
[15:09] <foobarry> 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the broadcast
[15:09] <foobarry> was made
[15:09] <foobarry> so soon to enter public domain
[15:09] <diddledan> foobarry: over 900 at last count
[15:10] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: IT'S OVER 900!!!!11
[15:10] <MartijnVdS> wait..
[15:10] <diplo> Ah ok so it is legal to rip a CD, it is still illegal to remore copy right protection
[15:10] <diplo> :)
[15:10] <popey> no
[15:11] <popey> it is still illegal to rip a cd
[15:11] <popey> not that anyone takes any notice
[15:11] <diplo> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tech/news/a446817/uk-law-change-permits-cd-ripping.html
[15:11] <diplo> However, it remains illegal to remove the technical protection method (TPM) from any copyrighted content, so a barrier remains in place where a wealth of content is concerned.
[15:11] <diplo> Read more: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tech/news/a446817/uk-law-change-permits-cd-ripping.html#ixzz2pj3m6MYh
[15:12] <diplo> Follow us: @digitalspy on Twitter | digitalspyuk on Facebook
[15:12] <popey> haha
[15:12] <diplo> bah that pasted wrong, sorry
[15:12] <popey> its a report
[15:12] <popey> where's the law change
[15:12] <diddledan> I don't get the "illegal to remove drm" bits. mostly because in order for anything to be useful the drm needs to be decrypted so there's at least one partial copy of unencrypted data somewhere which can arguably be termed as having had it's drm removed
[15:12] <MartijnVdS> diplo: look up the "DCP" flag that's part of a CD TOC :)
[15:12] <foobarry> kindle books are decrypted every time i read them
[15:12] <popey> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/consumers-given-more-copyright-freedom
[15:12] <MartijnVdS> diplo: "Digital Copy Permitted" 8-)
[15:12] <popey> "In response to a consultation earlier this year, the Government will make changes to"
[15:12] <popey> *will*
[15:12] <popey> not "has"
[15:13] <popey> be nice to get a proper legal doc
[15:13] <popey> then get wikipedia fixed ☻
[15:13] <Laney> that was 2012
[15:13] <Laney> hopefully moved on in the year since then ...
[15:14] <diddledan> at what point does "playing back" or "reading" become "removing copy protection"?
[15:14] <diddledan> e.g. libdvdcss
[15:14] <diddledan> it allows me to play back but the law suggests it's illegal
[15:17] <diddledan> so why is playing back using libdvdcss illegal yet using the same functionality in fluendo media player perfectly fine?!
[15:18] <davmor2> diddledan: Because Fluendo has paid for a license in order to be able to playback with a protected dvd
[15:19] <davmor2> diddledan: that's why the dvd player from fluendo isn't never going to be free
[15:19] <diddledan> I tend to sit on the fence with DRM - I understand the want of media producers to protect their revenue stream but I also wholeheartedly agree that DRM is more appropriately termed "digital restrictions management"
[15:19] <diddledan> and all the guff that goes along with that agreement
[15:23] <diplo> Someone try http://<IP_ADDRESS> for me and let me know what happens ?
[15:24] <marxjohnson> diplo: If this is meatspin...
[15:24] <marxjohnson> diplo: 403
[15:24] <diplo> With a bt redirect ?
[15:25] <MartijnVdS> HTTP/1.1 307 Temporary Redirect
[15:26] <MartijnVdS> diplo: to http://redirect.svc.networks.btretail.net/webredirect/?ip=<IP_ADDRESS>&url=http://<IP_ADDRESS>/
[15:26] <marxjohnson> ah yes
[15:26] <marxjohnson> as MartijnVdS says
[15:26] <DJones> diplo: I get the same from a BT connection
[15:26] <diplo> That's a Draytek router, https works.. so not sure why that is happening ? Only thing I can think is BT blocking use of 80 on the IP and redirecting
[15:26] <diplo> Can't find anything google related
[15:32] <foobarry> https://kindle.amazon.com/most_popular
[15:32] <foobarry> i wonder if hunger games was used as a school text or something
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: probably, but it's also *very* popular (new film just came out too for part 2 (Catching Fire))
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: I read it last year
[15:33] <foobarry> but as most highlighted? its not exactly profound
[15:33] <SuperMatt> I don't think it would have been used by schools
[15:34] <foobarry> american schools?
[15:34] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: if a book is popular, more people read it, so more people highlight bits
[15:34] <SuperMatt> they haven't been out long enough to have been fully studied for use in a curriculum
[15:34] <SuperMatt> and people would be too tempted to see the films and "cheat"
[15:34] <SuperMatt> but they are very good books
[15:34] <foobarry> its nice to look back on my own highlights
[15:35] <foobarry> The Treaty of Versailles, as well as causing deep resentment in Germany, satisfied none of the Allies. The British, who wanted to see Germany punished but not destroyed, felt the treaty too harsh. The French ? having borne the brunt of the conflict ? were determined to see Germany destroyed and thought it too weak.
[15:35] <foobarry> "And of course, what this Italian chap had done was just to sit with his finger on ?L?, smoking a fag, the biggest crib there ever was. ?A message that long that contained only ?L?s! That actually broke one of the wheels of the Italian Enigma machine"
[15:35] <foobarry> i love that story about the lazy italian
[15:35] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: LLLLLL
[15:36] <foobarry> and turing, in true aspie style: "when after several years of anxiety, the prospect of a Nazi invasion of Britain had receded, he began to absent himself from parades. The authorities were irritated by Turing?s apparently casual approach, insisting that since he had signed up for Home Guard duties, he was under military law. Turing calmly pointed out to the furious officers in question that he was no such thing, and that he had stated as mu
[15:36] <MartijnVdS>  as mu..[chopped line]
[15:36] <SuperMatt> that sounds like cryptonomicon
[15:36] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: it's not
[15:36] <SuperMatt> booo
[15:36] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: though that also deals with Turing :)
[15:37] <foobarry>  on the form that he had signed. One of the questions on the form was Do you understand that by enrolling in the Home Guard, you place yourself liable to military law?? Turing had written his answer: ?No?. Naturally, no one had noticed."
[15:41] <SuperMatt> ugg, I'm tempted to write in all my documentation that I need to hand over "just figure it all out yourself, that's what I did"
[15:41] <foobarry> SuperMatt: the book was "The Secret Life of Bletchley Park: The WWII Codebreaking Centre and the Men and Women Who Worked There by Sinclair McKay"
[15:41] <SuperMatt> oh cool
[15:41] <SuperMatt> I might check that out
[15:42] <foobarry> more of an easy read as it focused on the lives
[15:42] <SuperMatt> I'm going to have a lot of spare time now that my commute will be doubling
[15:42] <foobarry> an interesting book
[15:42] <SuperMatt> awesome
[15:44] <Azelphur> Don't you just love it when ISPs oversell to ridiculous levels, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-07-154238_1387x897_scrot.png
[15:44] <Azelphur> This is 80mbit fibre -.-
[15:45] <dwatkins> only 80 MBit?
[15:45] <Azelphur> yup
[15:45] <dwatkins> also, contention
[15:45] <foobarry> one thing about kindle is that it must have killed off teh large print section of the library
[15:45] <SuperMatt> that's an insane oversell
[15:45] <dwatkins> foobarry: not necessarily - see "iPad"
[15:45] <foobarry> when i worked in the library, a massive section had to be set aside for large print versinos of books
[15:45] <Azelphur> they even told me the node is overloaded, it literally is an oversell
[15:46] <dwatkins> i.e. stuff isn't being killed-off, it's transitioning.
[15:46] <SuperMatt> I would have thought it would be illegal to oversell a service
[15:46] <dwatkins> Azelphur: I like to run "mtr" in these situations to see where the packet loss occurs.
[15:46] <Azelphur> Nothing wrong with the actual connection, during the small hours I get like 60mbit
[15:47] <dwatkins> probably too many people on your segment
[15:47] <SuperMatt> mtr is my favourite tool
[15:47] <foobarry> VM used to kill me in the first hop
[15:47] <foobarry> packet loss of 30%
[15:47] <Azelphur> yea, they say they are going to review if it needs an upgrade within the month
[15:47] <SuperMatt> Azelphur: I won't be surprised if that review fails to happen
[15:47] <Azelphur> and yea I make extensive use of mtr myself, not a huge amount to see though, no packet loss, decent latency, just no throughput
[15:47] <Azelphur> SuperMatt: I'm gonna call them today with that speedtest and ask for a refund to go buy a 3g dongle since it's well below the 16mbit
[15:47] <Azelphur> and I'll continue to do that until they fix it
[15:48] <SuperMatt> good luck
[15:49] <Azelphur> ty
[15:49] <SuperMatt> I'm sure many people will attest to BTs brilliant responsibility shirking powers
[15:49] <Azelphur> indeed
[16:04]  * diplo used to have to deal with them with 90+ sites for BB and 80+ sites with phones, it was a royal PITA!
[16:05] <diplo> in the end I got an external company to look after it, much easier!
[16:20] <SuperMatt> diplo: just moving the pain around ;)
[16:25] <Azelphur> BT are competent people that totally don't have debugging turned on in production, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-07-155350_1387x897_scrot.png
[16:26]  * Azelphur sighs
[16:59] <bigcalm> Right. I'm doing battle with 3 RHEL servers. Where would I find crontabs either system based or those set by users?
[17:00] <SuperMatt> /var/spool/cron
[17:00] <bigcalm> Ah, /etc/cron.* are all there as expected
[17:01] <bigcalm> spool, that's it, ta SuperMatt
[17:01] <SuperMatt> :)
[17:01] <SuperMatt> it seems a bit weird that spool is still used
[17:01] <bigcalm> Humm, no cronjobs for any users. This is confusing
[17:02] <SuperMatt> what's happening?
[17:02] <diplo> So my BT issue, "It's an issue with your router" for hours
[17:02] <diplo> Was a problem with billing on their account
[17:02] <SuperMatt>  -.-
[17:02] <diplo> lifted that, it worked, and yet their "coach" was still adamant it was a router issue!
[17:03] <diplo> I in the most polite way I could said, you're stupid and left the call at that.
[17:03] <diplo> Fixed it right on time! SuperMatt started the new job yet ?
[17:04] <SuperMatt> starting on the 20th :)
[17:04] <diplo> And I still haven't got a good reason why their security question is 'Whats your mothers maiden name' on a business account
[17:04] <diplo> Ah, not long now!
[17:04] <SuperMatt> indeed
[17:05] <diplo> Right, sort my stuff out and get outta here
[17:05] <SuperMatt> if Adobe has taught us anything, security questions are something we shouldn't be relying on
[17:05] <SuperMatt> the problem with all security stuff is that as soon as one thing is compromised, you have to assume it's all compromised
[17:06] <bigcalm> SuperMatt: a system I used to work on used crontab jobs. We've recently been given the project back after it went in-house for a while. I now can't find/remember those crontab jobs. I wonder if they removed the need for them
[17:08] <SuperMatt> oh, I see
[17:08] <SuperMatt> well I can't help you there
[17:08] <SuperMatt> try as I might
[17:11] <bigcalm> ;)
[17:11] <diddledan> bigcalm: maybe they outsourced the crontab? :-p
[17:12] <diddledan> I mean, why use an inbuilt cron functionality when you can pay for a service
[17:12] <SuperMatt> of course!
[17:12] <SuperMatt> outsource all the things!
[17:13]  * bigcalm nibbles his custard cream and ponders
[17:13] <diddledan> SuperMatt: exactly!
[17:14] <SuperMatt> bigcalm: I prefer bourbons
[17:14] <SuperMatt> so, to me, you are the enemy
[17:15] <bigcalm> Good job I'm not giving you any biscuits then!
[17:15] <SuperMatt> This means war!
[17:17] <bashrc> it doesn't make much sense to outsource something which you could put in cron
[17:17] <SuperMatt> the google term "bourbons vs custard creams" does not yeild any witty urls on the matter. I think it's time to write an app which logs "likes" of each type and has a running tally. People can like multiple times to show their love for each biscuit
[17:18] <diddledan> SuperMatt: make it so!
[17:18] <diddledan> such a weird phrase
[17:18] <bigcalm> This is why we still have no cure for cancer :P
[17:19] <diddledan> I think the crux is biscuits are the reason
[17:19] <diddledan> for everything
[17:22] <SuperMatt> I might wait till I start the new job before doing this
[17:23] <SuperMatt> after all, I'm going to get cheap hosting and I don't want to move more stuff across to the new host than I really need to
[17:34] <bigcalm> SuperMatt: was it you who got a job with Rackspace?
[17:37] <diddledan> oh the joys of mobile internet
[17:38] <Azelphur> diddledan: oh the joys of 80mbit fibre http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3214612446 xD
[17:39] <diddledan> my 40Mbit fibre is knackered
[17:39] <diddledan> hence the mobile
[17:40] <Azelphur> fun
[17:40] <Azelphur> I hear anything enta.net running through kingston is fairly fucked atm -.-
[17:42]  * AlanBell raises an eybrow at Azelphur's lack of imaginative expletives
[17:42] <Azelphur> sorry, family friendly...no bad words.
[17:46] <directhex> YMMV. http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3214631667
[17:53] <Laney> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3214645447
[17:53] <Laney> not massively fair as the server is hosted by my ISP in the same city ...
[17:55] <MartijnVdS> only 11 up? :)
[17:55] <MartijnVdS> though downstream is nice :)
[17:55] <Azelphur> directhex: blimey, that's nice
[17:56] <directhex> Azelphur, considering the telephone cable isn't even attached to the wall properly, it's just sorta dangling off the side of the house
[17:56] <Azelphur> haha
[17:57] <Laney> MartijnVdS: yeah, that's what you get with cable here really
[17:57]  * MartijnVdS is still waiting for the 500/500 upgrade
[17:58] <Laney> I wonder how much upstream I use just by downloading at 120
[18:01] <PaulW2U> ctrl-M /input return
[18:13] <Seeker`> Laney: http://www.speedtest.net/result/3214695598.png
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> Seeker`: DC?
[18:13] <Seeker`> MartijnVdS: work internets
[18:35] <popey> czajkowski: http://imgur.com/gallery/N9wEYP7
[18:38] <diddledan> time to stop working
[18:38] <diddledan> I work too hard
[18:38] <diddledan> :-p
[18:39] <daftykins> diddledan: sure you're not still getting warmed up post hols? :D
[18:42] <SuperMatt> bigcalm: yeah, it was me
[19:01] <popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2103217949/porta-pi-arcade-a-diy-mini-arcade-cabinet-for-rasp
[19:01] <popey> want
[19:02] <Azelphur> haha, nice
[19:03] <ali1234> is that spritetm's one?
[19:04] <ali1234> http://spritesmods.com/?art=rpi_arcade&page=3
[19:04] <ali1234> looks very similar... hmm
[19:05] <ali1234> hmm... it's not an exact copy, so i guess i'll allow it
[19:07] <ali1234> ah this new one is quite a bit bigger too
[19:12] <ali1234> you could probably retrofit a raspi and screen into a classic gameboy case
[19:12] <ali1234> in fact i bet someone already did it
[19:13] <ali1234> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=35260137 yup
[19:26] <diddledan> riotous ringworm is EOL as of the 27th?!
[19:26] <diddledan> short cycles ftl
[19:27] <diddledan> IMO you should have reasonable cycles or no cycles/rolling release
[19:27] <diddledan> "not pitifully short cycles"
[19:28] <davmor2> diddledan: 9 month cycles for non lts seems reasonable, it means it is supported till half way through the next release
[19:35] <ali1234> 9 months seems good to me
[19:35] <ali1234> rolling just isn't an option with how unstable ubuntu is
[19:42] <davmor2> diddledan: what you have to remember is if you have and 18 month release cycle plus 5 years on the desktop for lts at some point you will have 3 LTS and 3 interim releases to support something is going to snap, with a 9 month cycle you will only ever have one intrim and 3 LTS
[20:35] <czajkowski> popey: awww
[20:39] <foobarry> 9 month cycle does mean that somebody installing $current 1 month before the new release only gets 4 months support
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: and a notice to upgrade 1 month in
[20:40] <foobarry> hence people instlaling lts or a beta instead
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> good
[20:40] <foobarry> i would consider sacking someone for installing fedora on a server
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: but it doesn't matter if you install LTS or 13.10, yo'll get the upgrade notice once 14.04 is out
[20:41] <foobarry> i've seen web servers running fedora 8 and older in this place
[20:41] <foobarry> just think of all the security updates that have been missed because some numpty didn't use centos
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> people who are so bad about maintaining their infrastructure deserve to get pwned
[20:42] <foobarry> yes, and not promoted :-|
[20:43] <foobarry> i joined my previous company and found a load of IIS servers that  had been pwned rotten
[20:44] <foobarry> i said, why is IIS on this box? they didn't know. ftp and web set up as default
[20:44] <foobarry> susceptible to the ../../../pwn.asp bugs etc
[20:45] <foobarry> c'est la vie
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> we just run the latest LTS
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> new LTS? Time to deploy new machines
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> but then, we just store everything "config"-related in Chef
[20:46] <foobarry> when i supported desktops we had people who said "don't touch my machine until my phd is finished"
[20:46] <zleap> i can understand that
[20:46] <foobarry> hence SL with updates was basically install and forget. would be fine for 4 or 5 years
[20:46] <zleap> only surely people would back up their work if they are doing a phd
[20:46] <foobarry> NFS mounted home dirs
[20:47] <MartijnVdS> zleap: I upgrade to Ubuntu alphas on my workstation. Even during high-priority projects. Get an LTS VM if you want stable ;)
[20:47] <foobarry> but you ensured compatibility of python, c libs, etc ,etc all the way through your work
[20:47] <foobarry> if their machine died, we could redeploy a SL4/5/6 box for them the same as before anyway
[20:47] <foobarry> in 20 mins
[20:48] <diddledan> SL?
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> S.. S.. Suse?
[20:48] <foobarry> scientific linux ~ centos
[20:48] <diddledan> aah
[20:50] <foobarry> need to install 282 updates on this 12.04LTS
[20:50] <foobarry> woops 321
[20:50] <directhex> rhel (a bad distro) minus the paid support (the only reason to run a bad distro)
[20:50] <foobarry> disagree
[20:51] <foobarry> good deployment architecture
[20:51] <foobarry> good support from vendors e.g. use on HPC cluster
[20:51] <foobarry> solid as a rock
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> older than Debian Woody was when Sarge came out
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> or was potato->woody the big gap?
[20:52] <directhex> once purchased a cluster which shipped opensuse 10.1
[20:52] <foobarry> depends what you are doing with it
[20:52] <foobarry> rocks on suse
[20:53] <directhex> with like 5 months of updates left when we bought it
[20:53] <foobarry> rhel is bad when the updates run out
[20:53] <foobarry> so i prefer centos for that reason
[20:54] <popey> 20:40:55 < MartijnVdS> foobarry: but it doesn't matter if you install LTS or 13.10, yo'll get the upgrade notice once 14.04 is out
[20:54] <popey> s/14.04/14.04.1/
[20:54] <foobarry> when i think of servers i think of support across the whole lifetime of server, hence centos or LTS are only options for me
[20:54] <dogmatic69_> could anyone recomend a good router to use with openWRT
[20:54] <popey> netgear wndr3700 works well
[20:55] <dogmatic69_> good being reasonably cheap with decent spec
[20:55] <foobarry> there's a good site
[20:55] <foobarry> didn't we talk before about it?
[20:55] <dogmatic69_> popey: thanks, checking that out
[20:55] <foobarry> found an awesome site with routers for 15 quid
[20:55] <popey> mine has been on for months
[20:55] <dogmatic69_> popey: like that its filed under 'high performance' :D
[20:56] <popey> dual radios, 4 ports
[20:56] <dogmatic69_> cool
[20:56] <dogmatic69_> virgin media router is absolute rubbish
[20:56] <dogmatic69_> worse than BT home hub 3
[20:57] <dogmatic69_> cant even set a static internal IP
[20:57] <dogmatic69_> makes ssh to other pc's a pain
[20:57] <foobarry> can't remember the site i found before, but there's a recent dicsussion here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6828699
[21:27] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: TP-Link for me :)
[21:28] <popey> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2014-January/020100.html
[21:28] <popey> centos joins red hat
[21:29] <popey> dogmatic69_: yeah, i have two wndr3700's behind my virgin media box
[21:30] <ali1234> well that's cool
[21:30] <popey> yeah, good for centos, and their users
[21:36] <diddledan> so, umm, centos is now an official redhat release?
[21:50] <bigcalm> New humble bundle. Wonder if there's anything of interest this time
[21:51] <popey> i only have one of them
[21:51] <popey> (surgeon simulator)
[21:51] <ali1234> oh cool i've been wanting that game for ages
[21:51] <ali1234> "360 spoonflip"
[21:51] <popey> interestingly the highest payer was "o/ HEIL HITLER o/" at $5000 which seems to be removed
[21:52] <popey> and the average was $8.44 for some time, now it's down to ~$6
[21:52] <bigcalm> I have none of those games and they all look playable :)
[21:52] <popey> surgeon simulator is bonkers
[21:52]  * bigcalm nabs
[21:52] <directhex> tee hee http://www.razerzone.com/christine
[21:52] <ali1234> lol "to the moon!"
[21:52] <directhex> papo & yo is worth playing, imho
[21:52] <popey> phoneblocks
[21:53] <directhex> the gameplay is so-so, but it's got a great story to tell
[21:53] <popey> but with PCs
[21:53] <directhex> popey, phoneblocks with watercooling and ssds!
[21:53] <ali1234> "frog-induced rage" sounds good.
[21:54] <directhex> yeah, monster HATES frogs
[21:56]  * bigcalm fires up his SteamOS machine
[21:57] <bigcalm> Sadly it means removing the network and graphics cables from another machine. Hay ho
[22:00] <bigcalm> I love the password entry system using my xbox controller
[22:01] <bigcalm> Anybody else using an xbox controller with SteamOS? My controller is constantly flashing as though it's waiting to sync with the OS
[22:02] <diddledan> again the average price is higher from linux users
[22:03] <diddledan> I don't get why linux people are more willing to part with cash than "others"
[22:03] <diddledan> or rather part with more cash
[22:03] <bigcalm> Somebody suggested because we don't waste money buying an OS
[22:04] <bigcalm> I think it's because we are more about sharing
[22:04] <diddledan> I'm not sure the price of the platform is the differentiating factor
[22:05] <popey> i think its more to do with sheer volume of windows users paying near-zero
[22:05] <popey> dragging their average down
[22:05] <diddledan> probably
[22:05] <bigcalm> I've always paid the default of $25
[22:05] <diddledan> bloomin' freeloaders :-p
[22:07] <bigcalm> Papo & Yo and Reus aren't showing up in SteamOS for me :S
[22:07] <ali1234> they often don't
[22:07] <ali1234> just cos there is a linux port doesn't mean it's on steam
[22:07] <ali1234> it took like a year for super meat boy to show up
[22:08] <bigcalm> I redeemed the steam keys
[22:08] <bigcalm> I guess
[22:08] <ali1234> yeah... getting you the windows version and maybe mac
[22:08] <ali1234> and linux version if they ever bother to put it up
[22:08] <diddledan> the surgeon simulator videos remind me of being drunk
[22:09] <diddledan> only with sharp objects involved
[22:09] <bigcalm> Ah, the HB site says that Reus is still in beta for Mac and Linux
[22:16] <ali1234> "to the moon" is a missing executable
[22:16] <ali1234> ie they say it's available for linux but there's no package files at all
[22:20] <popey> as always, i get a humble bundle promo email 10 mins after I buy it
[22:21] <bigcalm> directhex: audio is muted by default. I had to go to the desktop to unmute. Is this your doing? ;)
[22:24] <directhex> bigcalm, this is covered in my YT video
[22:25] <bigcalm> Ah, I haven't watched that :)
[22:25] <ali1234> you should make it set the volume to maximum. because trolling is funny
[22:27] <dogmatic69_> popey: you still about? why you got 2 routers behind the VM?
[22:27] <popey> dogmatic69_: because one wouldn't cover the whole house
[22:27] <dogmatic69_> ah
[22:27] <popey> they're at opposite corners of the building
[22:27] <bigcalm> I'm going to have to put electrical tape over the xbox controller LEDs. Really bugging me
[22:27] <dogmatic69_> popey: I see
[22:27] <popey> one in my den 3 feet from me now, one in the bedroom, opposite corner
[22:28] <dogmatic69_> popey: NETWNDR3700-100UKS is the same thing?
[22:29] <ali1234> that just means version 1 UK firmware
[22:29] <dogmatic69_> ah
[22:29] <ali1234> version 1 being the hardware
[22:29] <dogmatic69_> and I would be able to flash that without any problems
[22:29] <popey> N600 WNDR3700v2
[22:29] <popey> is the one I have
[22:29] <ali1234> you need to check which version openwrt uses and the different versions are usually totally different
[22:30] <popey> http://blog.josefsson.org/2011/05/22/openwrt-with-huawei-e367-and-tp-link-tl-wr1043nd/
[22:30] <popey> thats the blog post I followed
[22:30] <popey> some time ago
[22:31] <popey>  ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT (bleeding edge, r27832) ----------
[22:31] <popey> just ssh'ed in for the first time in maybe a year
[22:31] <popey> Linux hawking <IP_ADDRESS> #1 Sat Jul 30 08:54:25 MST 2011 mips GNU/Linux
[22:33] <bigcalm> Despite my SteamOS machine not being that bad, it's really sucking with the graphics. Wonder what's wrong
[22:34] <bigcalm> I watched it install nvidia-current. So it really doesn't make sense
[22:36] <Seeker`> mips \o/
[22:49] <bigcalm> Is there no longer a link to the USC from HB?
[22:50] <directhex> hasn't been for ages
[22:50] <bigcalm> Ho hum
[22:57] <popey> reus is nice
[23:00] <ali1234> you don't want to install through USC anyway... not until click is sorted
[23:00] <ali1234> all those PPAs make it sloooooooooooow
[23:44] <bigcalm> Sleep now!
[23:44] <daftykins> nn o/
[23:59] <diddledan> o_O how can a used previous generation appletv cost nearly twice that of a brand new current generation?


[03:23] <Exmix> Anyone know a semi-quick/simple way to install OpenVPN on Ubuntu Server(Kinda similar to how PiVPN is easy to install)
[04:38] <gartral> I have a vm that's inaccessable... it's in emergency and asking for a root password... but as we know, ubuntu doesn't have a default root pass... what do I do here?!?!
[04:40] <gartral> it's a server 18.04 vm on a xen host (not xenserver, straight xen project), so I can't just boot an ISO, I tried, it doesn't boot
[07:25] <zzlatev> Hi guys
[08:31] <zzlatev> A start job is running for raise network interfaces (5 mins 1 sec)
[08:31] <zzlatev> can you help me
[08:48] <ren0v0> Hi, when i login via SSH to my server it says "67 packages can be updated", but when I run apt upgrade it says 0 packages to upgrade?
[09:00] <ren0v0> Seems completely broken somewhere!  https://pastebin.com/ump3RWZu
[09:00] <ren0v0> can anyone assist?
[09:36] <ren0v0> Think its the MOTD
[09:36] <ren0v0> anyone know how to force update it ?
[10:20] <rbasak> ren0v0: what's the output of running /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check? That's what the motd uses.
[10:22] <rbasak> ren0v0: I think you can remove /var/lib/update-notifier/updates-available but it gets recreated daily (or something like that) anyway
[10:22] <rbasak> ren0v0: via /etc/update-motd.d/90-updates-available
[15:12] <technoob> Hi guys
[15:12] <technoob> Need help
[15:13] <technoob> I have a problem in installing pihole docker version on ubuntu server 18
[15:13] <technoob> It says that port 53 is alrrady used
[15:16] <technoob> Anyone can help me?
[15:51] <blackflow> technoob: perhaps fix your connection first.
[15:51] <technoob> How?
[15:51] <blackflow> technoob: your connection that's making you disconnect from IRC I mean
[15:51] <technoob> I see
[15:51] <blackflow> nobody here is gonna play parrots to repeat stuff said when you were disconnected
[15:52] <technoob> Its because of my phone
[15:52] <blackflow> that said.... on a certain IP address (like localhost), there can be only one process listening at a port number
[15:52] <blackflow> by default ubuntu uses systemd-resolved as local resolver (and before that dnsmasq) which are all taking port 53. So if you want something else to listen on that <ip>:<port> combo, you'll have to disable whatever is running right now.
[15:52] <technoob> My phone keeps on disconnecting sorry
[15:53] <technoob> I see
[15:54] <technoob> How do i disable those running? I tried netstat and i see dnsmasq and systemd resolver
[15:54] <technoob> Those 2 are listening
[15:55] <blackflow> they can't both be listening on the same ip:port combo
[15:55] <blackflow> iirc systemd-resolved is not at <IP_ADDRESS>, right?
[15:59] <technoob> Im not sure what ip it was
[15:59] <technoob> My server is off right now
[15:59] <technoob> So couldnt check
[15:59] <technoob> But dnsmasq and the resolver have different ip
[15:59] <technoob> But same port
[16:01] <tomreyn> it listens _of course_ ;-) at <IP_ADDRESS>
[16:04] <technoob> Backflow
[16:04] <technoob> blackflow
[16:05] <blackflow> technoob: alright so, you have two options here. One, use pihole as the only resolver, or two, tell resolved to use pihole as its "upstream" (since resolved is just stub)
[16:06] <blackflow> option two should be most simple one, requiring only a change in /etc/systemd/resolved.conf, adding a proper DNS= line. That also requires your pihole docker to run at another ip
[16:07] <technoob> Ill try the easy one
[16:07] <technoob> So what dns should i add or change in conf
[16:11] <technoob> blackflow
[16:12] <blackflow> to the IP where the pihole is listening on
[16:12] <mybalzitch> why don't you learn to create a network in docker, then have your pihole docker use a specific ip on your network, without having to gut ubuntu's resolv system
[16:12] <blackflow> there we go.... the parrot game
[16:12] <mybalzitch> technoob: why don't you learn to create a network in docker, then have your pihole docker use a specific ip on your network, without having to gut ubuntu's resolv system
[16:13] <blackflow> technoob: and set DNS=   to the IP where the pihole is listening on
[16:14] <technoob> mybalzitch i see. I could do that too but im really new to sysadmin and alot of things are so confusing
[16:14] <technoob> Thats why im asking
[16:15] <technoob> But i will take into consideration your advice as i too also dont like to gut ubuntus default configuration
[16:16] <technoob> That was the reason why i opted to use a docker so that there is minimal changes done to the original env
[16:16] <technoob> Forgive me if i have used wrong terms
[16:16] <technoob> blackflow thanks ill try that maybe later as i need to get some shut eye
[16:30] <kab0m> Hi everyone.
[16:31] <kab0m> What is the best way to setup a VM as a vpn-router? has someone a guide on hand? I tried now serveral times and problems with dnsmasq openvpn and dnsleaks are coming back, im stuck.
[16:33] <blackflow> kab0m: debian or ubuntu. last you asked about resolv.conf was for debian. the two have very different default network settings paradigms.
[16:34] <kab0m> blackflow: i tried with both debian and ubuntu...no success so far...atm im happy with any of those two systems.i just need to get things running
[16:34] <kab0m> *i would be hapyp with guides for any of those systems
[16:35] <blackflow> kab0m: what I'd personally do, and what I _do_ actually, is replace the default resolving stack wiht a local bind resolver. you can use unbound as well. which includes a static /etc/resolv.conf . most flexible, best control, no leaks.   In contrast, there's been a plenty of reports about systemd-resolved not playing nicely with VPNs
[16:36] <blackflow> default stuffs in ubuntu are complex layers upon layers of reinvented or badly invented software.
[17:39] <kab0m> blackflow: thanks for the hints ;) do you maybe have a guide or a tutorial which i can use to start with?
[17:40] <blackflow> nothing in my bookmarks, sorry
[18:38] <tomreyn> Pici: we miss ubottu - could you have a look?
[19:46] <kab0m> is there a minimum disksize for a ubuntu-server installation? because i tried with 5gb and i couldn't select the disk as it is greyed out in the installer?
[19:47] <Ussat> thats a bit small
[19:47] <Ussat> I mean disk is cheap......I would think at least 20
[19:48] <kab0m> Ussat: i think 20gig a bit overpowered for a little service thats running on this thing.
[19:49] <Ussat> well then choose what you want
[19:49] <Ussat> like I said disk is cheap
[19:49] <kab0m> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements#Ubuntu_Server_.28CLI.29_Installation states 5GB should be enough...but the installer says nothing about
[19:50] <Ussat> ...
[19:50] <kab0m> Ussat: btw its a VM
[19:50] <Ussat> so use 10
[19:58] <tomreyn> 10 works fine for a basic installation without many services
[19:59] <kab0m> 10G was the key, thanks Ussat and tomreyn
[20:00] <Ussat> I just thin provision all my vm's and dont worry about it. If you give it 100G it doesnt matter, only uses what it needs
[20:13] <tomreyn> thanks Pici, it's back
[22:06] <RoyK> kab0m: 2GB should do for a server - I have that on a few VMs
[22:07] <RoyK> the base install for a server takes up 1GB or perhaps 1,2GB
[22:08] <RoyK> plus swap
[22:08] <kab0m> RoyK: Strange...i couldn't install it with 5GB as the installer greyed out the disk and i had to up the size to at least 9GB..how did you pass the ubuntu-server installer with that small disk?
[22:08] <RoyK> you want a bit of swap
[22:08] <RoyK> kab0m: was this the new installer or the old one?
[22:09] <kab0m> RoyK: the latest ubuntu-18.04.2-live-server-amd64.iso
[22:09] <RoyK> use the old installer
[22:10] <RoyK> you really don't need nine gigs for a basic server installation
[22:10] <kab0m> which one is the installer and what exactly is the difference?
[22:10] <RoyK> and then - take a copy of that installation and use it again
[22:10] <RoyK> the new installer is fancy and flashy and - well - sucks
[22:11] <RoyK> they made a new one to make everything flashy and forgot about making it useful
[22:11] <mybalzitch> hate it when that happens
[22:11] <RoyK> even for ubuntu desktop, you won't need 9 gigs for a base install
[22:12] <kab0m> RoyK: Ok good to know :D where can i find the "old" installer? and does it have any disadvantages?
[22:12] <kab0m> RoyK: LOL iirc the desktop installer now requires at least 20GB ore something like that? ^^
[22:13] <kab0m> its just insane
[22:13] <RoyK> kab0m: "traditional installer" on ubuntu.com download
[22:13] <RoyK> kab0m: that's just  bit weird
[22:13] <f2600> anyone here
[22:14] <RoyK> o/
[22:14] <tomreyn> no
[22:15] <f2600> looking for websites or book recommendations that go in depth on securing 18.04. My searches give pretty basic security info and looking to see if community has some recommendations
[22:16] <kab0m> RoyK: well, i fell for the shiny new installer as canonical has hidden the traditional very well on their download page as i see now^^
[22:16] <rbasak> It's because the installer uses an image which is generated at 8G.
[22:16] <rbasak> If you're using a VM, using an installer is like being in the dark ages. Use a cloud image.
[22:16] <rbasak> kab0m, RoyK: ^
[22:17] <kab0m> rbasak: ahhh thanks for the insight. ahm ok, where can i find the cloud images...also on ubuntu.com?
[22:17] <rbasak> cloud-images.ubuntu.com, but rather than using it direct, use tooling that uses an image.
[22:17] <rbasak> Try vagrant or multipass or uvtool.
[22:19] <kab0m> rbasak: tbh i have my vms running in virtualbox lol i guess something like unraid etc would be a better idea...but that would mean i would have to migrate everything, which i try to avoid atm
[22:19] <rbasak> vagrant supports virtualbox natively I think.
[22:19] <rbasak> Though vagrant images aren't suitable for production use unless they've changed how they do things.
[22:22] <kab0m> rbasak: is vagrant some kind of esxi vsphere clone?
[22:33] <ec0> vagrant is a tool for automating VM install and configuration
[22:34] <ec0> it has a virtualbox provider by default, but there's also other ones. I use the libvirt provider quite often to bring up VMs on KVM for testing purposes.
[22:34] <ec0> the ISOs for the installer are also pretty easy to snag from archive.ubuntu.com
[22:45] <kab0m> thanks ec0
[23:06] <ec0> no problem!
[23:12] <Exmix> So obviously I have UFW enabled on my Ubuntu Server, i have it to allow SSH, and Apache as I use it as a Web Server and a SFTP Server. I recently installed PiHole onto it so I can use my RaspberryPi for other nifty and fun things. Anyway, since I have the PiHole as my DHCP server and such, I would need to allow ports 67, and 68 correct? Would I also need to allow DNS(53)?
[23:15] <mybalzitch> yes if you are serving dns to the restof the network
[23:15] <mybalzitch> (which you probably will want to)
[23:25] <Exmix> Ok, Thank you. Now my other question is, if I 'ufw allow 67' it will add it to v6 as well, is that necessary or is there a way not add it to v6
[23:30] <Exmix> or does it really not matter?
[23:46] <OerHeks> Exmix, no, The excellent thing about UFW is that enables the firewall on both IP stacks
[23:51] <Exmix> So it doesn't matter if the v6 is there or not, gotcha. Thanks OerHeks


[01:57] <Sarvatt> RAOF: it costs $.10 more to add a real multitouch touchpad to a laptop, that adds up! :)
[01:58] <Sarvatt> only apple is willing to put something decent in there..
[12:52] <nerochiaro> i hve been told that at the moment touchpads will not send xi2 two-finger touch events to applications due to the mouse interpreter converting them to mousewheel. is there a way to disable this behavior globally, so i can test how apps will behave when they receive them ?
[12:54] <tseliot> mlankhorst, RAOF: ^
[13:11] <tjaalton> 01:56 < RAOF> Bah, nobody stays around to my morning :)
[13:11] <tjaalton> 01:57 < RAOF> t1mp: xserver-xorg-input-synaptics doesn't send two-finger multitouch events; it consumes them itself to  synthesise scroll events instead.
[13:11] <tjaalton> 01:57 < RAOF> t1mp: And most touchpads will _report_ more than 2 fingers touching the touchpad, but only send coordinates  for the first 2.
[13:11] <tjaalton> 01:58 < RAOF> t1mp: Because apparently Apple is _still_ buying up _all_ the non-terrible touchpad hardware :(
[13:11] <tjaalton> nerochiaro: ^
[13:13] <nerochiaro> tjaalton: yes, but can we temporarily disable this behavior somehow ? I want to see how my app would react when 2 finger events are not consumed by the stack anymore
[13:16] <tjaalton> disable synaptics
[13:16] <tjaalton> so that it'll load evdev instead
[13:28] <nerochiaro> tjaalton: can you please point me in the right direction on how to do that ?
[13:34] <tjaalton> nerochiaro: the most brutal way would be to remove the driver.. or move it aside, or change the xorg.conf.d snippet to not do anything
[13:35] <nerochiaro> tjaalton: i'll try the last one you suggested. seems the least brutal
[18:30] <Prf_Jakob> mlankhorst: did you push the svga fixes to the ubuntu packages?
[18:38] <Prf_Jakob> mlankhorst: I updated bug 1284134 if that is okay?