[12:09] <Flannel> Thats what we expected.   I think.  Or at least for the former.
[12:09] <RickH> okay
[12:09] <Flannel> So, go ahead and do it without the simulate, see if it works.
[12:09] <RickH> Now how do I revert from .31 to .29?
[12:09] <Flannel> If it doesn't work, and everything explodes, you'll still have your -15
[12:09] <Flannel> sudo apt-get upgrade
[12:09] <RickH> okay
[12:09] <Flannel> erm, dist-upgrade maybe
[12:09] <Flannel> I suppose it doesn't matter
[12:10] <RickH> rick@rick-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[12:10] <RickH> Reading package lists... Done
[12:10] <RickH> Building dependency tree
[12:10] <RickH> Reading state information... Done
[12:10] <RickH> Calculating upgrade... Done
[12:10] <RickH> The following packages have been kept back:
[12:10] <RickH>   linux-image-2.6.20-16-generic linux-restricted-modules-generic
[12:10] <RickH> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
[12:10] <RickH> rick@rick-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get upgrade
[12:10] <RickH> Reading package lists... Done
[12:10] <RickH> Building dependency tree
[12:10] <RickH> Reading state information... Done
[12:10] <RickH> The following packages have been kept back:
[12:10] <Flannel> right, it should be the same.
[12:10] <RickH>   linux-image-2.6.20-16-generic linux-restricted-modules-generic
[12:10] <RickH> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
[12:10] <RickH> how can I find out if I'm back to .29?
[12:12] <Flannel> apt-cache policy linux-image-2.6.20-16-generic
[12:13] <RickH> rick@rick-desktop:~$ apt-cache policy linux-image-2.6.20-16-generic
[12:13] <RickH> linux-image-2.6.20-16-generic:
[12:13] <RickH>   Installed: 2.6.20-16.31
[12:13] <RickH>   Candidate: (none)
[12:13] <RickH>   Package pin: (not found)
[12:13] <RickH>   Version table:
[12:13] <RickH>  *** 2.6.20-16.31 1001
[12:13] <RickH>         500 http://security.ubuntu.com feisty-security/main Packages
[12:13] <RickH>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty-security/main Packages
[12:13] <RickH>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[12:14] <Flannel> Hmm.  Did you save your preferences file?
[12:14] <RickH> Yes.
[12:14] <RickH> I've re-edited it by typing the gksu line again.
[12:14] <RickH> It comes back up.
[12:14] <RickH> rick@rick-desktop:~$ gksu gedit /etc/apt/preferences
[12:15] <Flannel> Well, shucks.  I have no idea.
[12:15] <Flannel> You'll have to ask someone who knows more about it than I do.
[12:16] <nalioth> whoa
[12:16] <RickH> okay.
[12:16] <Flannel> Luckily, nothing we did will affect your -15 version kernel
[12:16] <Flannel> nalioth: Have I been doing it all wrong?
[12:16] <nalioth> pastebin works a LOT better for help, guys
[12:16] <RickH> Except it doesn'tw ork with xserver
[12:16] <nalioth> it allows folks who are late to the party to see the pastebin when they arrive
[12:16] <nalioth> repeatedly pasting the same crap to irc channels is totally pointless
[12:17] <Flannel> I agree.  I suppose I didn't really notice all the paste.
[12:17] <Flannel> RickH: usually if it's more than about two lines, you pastebin it.
[12:18] <RickH> So what do I do?
[12:18] <RickH> Am I resigned to buying a new hard drive and installing Linux there and starting over?
[12:19] <Flannel> All because your sound doesn't work?  Worst case is you either use -15 with sound,or -16 without sound for a few days until the regression is worked out.  You did file a bug report about the regression, ddn't you?
[12:19] <RickH> nope
[12:19] <RickH> the problem just happened today and I came here first.
[12:19] <Flannel> RickH: ah, Well, launchpad might already have a workaround for all we know
[12:19] <RickH> For all I know, I did something to break it.
[12:21] <Flannel> RickH: But, you'll have to get someone elses help on that, I've gotta run
[12:21] <RickH> thanks, Flannel
[12:22] <RickH> nalioth:  There were only two of us here actively during the pasting.  I did not paste a tremendous amount.  We used pastebin for some stuff.
[02:26] <jrib> hi
[02:26] <Soskel> hey jrib
[02:26] <Soskel> http://texticle.net/index.php?show=44
[02:26] <Soskel> I get that
[02:26] <jrib> pastebin your vmx
[02:26] <jrib> what is the location of the .iso you want to use?
[02:26] <Soskel> http://texticle.net/index.php?show=45
[02:26] <Soskel> the location of the ISO?
[02:27] <Soskel> What do you mean?
[02:27] <jrib> you need a .iso or a cd to install your OS, do you have one of those?
[02:27] <Soskel> I have a black dvd
[02:27] <Soskel> *blank
[02:27] <jrib> what OS are you installing?
[02:27] <Soskel> windows 3.1
[02:28] <Soskel> I don't actually own windows 3.1
[02:28] <jrib> so you have a cd with windows 3.1 then?
[02:28] <jrib> then you can't use windows 3.1...
[02:28] <Soskel> are you joking?
[02:28] <jrib> ask microsoft
[02:28] <Soskel> what channel?
[02:28] <jrib> ...
[02:28] <Soskel> wait
[02:28] <Soskel> would it be possible to buy it?
[02:29] <jrib> I guess if someone sells it
[02:29] <jrib> why do you want windows 3.1?
[02:29] <Soskel> the same reason people want them model T's
[02:30] <jrib> heh :)
[02:31] <Soskel> thank you so much for trying to help me
[02:31] <jrib> Soskel: you can try installing ubuntu or another linux distro like debian from a .iso for practice
[02:31] <Soskel> bahahaha
[02:31] <Soskel> ok
[02:31] <Soskel> I want slackware
[02:31] <jrib> get the iso for it and create a .vmx that looks for that iso
[02:32] <Soskel> ok
[02:32] <Soskel> wait
[02:32] <Soskel> will it actually install on my system?
[02:32] <jrib> it installs it to a file
[02:33] <jrib> then when you run the virtual machine that file acts as the hard drive
[02:33] <Soskel> ohh
[02:33] <jrib> nothing happens to your system
[02:33] <Soskel> cool
[02:34] <Soskel> jrib: http://slackware.mirrors.easynews.com/linux/slackware
[02:34] <Soskel> witch one do I download?
[02:35] <jrib> never played with slackware so your guess is as good as mine
[02:35] <Soskel> for helping me, I will send you $10 via paypal
[02:35] <jrib> nah, don't worry about it
[02:35] <jrib> put it towards ubuntu bounties if you want :)
[02:36] <Soskel> :)
[02:36] <Soskel> what do you recommend?
[02:36] <jrib> I'd go with the latest
[02:37] <Soskel> I mean for a distro
[02:37] <jrib> ubuntu!
[02:37] <Soskel> hehe
[02:37] <Soskel> I use that as my primary os
[02:37] <Soskel> that is what I am using right now
[02:37] <Soskel> it is also my dev server
[02:39] <jrib> when you recreate the .vmx file use the "easyvmx" button on the left on the website and make sure you enable using the .iso as a second cdrom
[02:41] <Soskel> ok, I got a distro
[02:41] <Soskel> dsl


[00:15] <user|79> hello i have a elitebook 840 and im trying to down load the norton virus protection on it and i cant get the norton virus protection on it
[00:17] <cbreak> why would you want to get the norton virus?
 AFNF
 Yesterday I upgraded to kubuntu 23.10 from 22.04 LTS. Can connect to my router via wi-fi but can't connect to internet. LAN is also inactive. Anyone who can guide me in resolving this?
 E: The repository 'https://ppa.launchpadcontent.net/flatpak/stable/ubuntu mantic Release' does not have a Release file.
 W: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default.
 W: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user configuration details.
 why i am getting this error
[07:02] <valorie> @mr_honesty123 you just repeated the reason
[07:04] <valorie> I assume that there is no release file because it is no longer a supported release
[07:04] <valorie> !releases
[09:42] <ApoloXIII> Hi
[10:48] <ApoloXIII> hi diogenes_
[10:52] <diogeness> ApoloXIII: hi
[13:06] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[18:58] <mdiehl> Hi all.    I can ssh into it and everything seems to be there.
[18:58] <mdiehl> He's running Kubuntu 22.04
[18:58] <mdiehl> How can I set his system back to the default graphics config?
[19:00] <oerheks> hi mdiehl
[19:01] <oerheks> what card is he using exactly? lspci | grep VGA
[20:00] <mdiehl> @oerheks, Sorry for the delay.  He's running an on-board:
[20:00] <mdiehl> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
[20:01] <oerheks> try ; ubuntu-drivers devices, or do directly; sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall
[20:02] <oerheks> running internal intel, he added a card again?
[20:02] <mdiehl> He wanted dual monitors.
[20:04] <mdiehl> Then reboot?
[20:08] <oerheks> yes
[20:13] <mdiehl> OK, I rebooted and we saw the Kubuntu message.  Then the screen went blank.
[20:13] <mmikowski> mdiehl: How many screens are attached?
[20:14] <mmikowski> Make sure you just have the primary screen attached to start.
[20:14] <mdiehl> Now, just one.  Attached to the internal port.
[20:14] <mmikowski> For debugging purposes.
[20:14] <mmikowski> ok.
[20:14] <mdiehl> Yes.
[20:14] <mmikowski> What GPU is attached?
[20:15] <mmikowski> Are you plugged into that card or into the motherboard?
[20:15] <mdiehl> Motherboard.
[20:15] <mmikowski> The GPU before was Nvidia?
[20:15] <mmikowski> or AMD or Intel?
[20:16] <mdiehl> Intel.
[20:16] <mmikowski> And the display was working through that?
[20:16] <mdiehl> Yes.
[20:16] <mmikowski> So he removed an Intel Arc GPU?
[20:16] <mmikowski> Just clarifying.
[20:16] <mdiehl> No, he added another card...
[20:17] <mdiehl> Removed that and now the internal doesn't work.
[20:17] <mmikowski> Ok, so was the display through that before?
[20:17] <mmikowski> And what card was it? Like Nvidia RTX 1060 or similar?
[20:17] <oerheks> always use the plugincard connector
[20:18] <oerheks> one can do that 'live'
[20:18] <mdiehl> I don't think he got both cards working, so he removed the external.  Then the internal didn't work.
[20:18] <oerheks> no, if the onboard is used, it overrides ?
[20:19] <mdiehl> Hmmmm.
[20:19] <mmikowski> I do this for a living. If you answer my questions directly, I can quickly help you resolve.
[20:20] <mdiehl> And I appreciate your time.
[20:20] <mmikowski> If you can't, then I have to get to work. No offense, but I can't spend too much time on this.
[20:20] <mdiehl> I understand.
[20:20] <mdiehl> So, the internal is:  00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
[20:20] <mmikowski> So 1. Did he have the output running through the GPU before? Was it working?
[20:20] <mmikowski> Yes, that is now.
[20:21] <mmikowski> Before, what was the monitor that was working attached to? The MB or the GPU?
[20:21] <mmikowski> Or don't know?
[20:22] <mdiehl> The internal graphics worked.  Then he added a new card and tried to get it added.  It didn't work, so he pulled it.
[20:22] <mdiehl> Now the internal doesn't work.
[20:22] <mdiehl> Is that more complete?
[20:23] <mdiehl> I booted a live dvd and it worked.
[20:23] <mmikowski> Right.
[20:23] <mdiehl> So, it's a config issue.... right?
[20:23] <mmikowski> Right
[20:24] <mdiehl> I feel like if I removed the config, it would auto-config and I'd be golden...?
[20:24] <mmikowski> likely not.
[20:24] <mdiehl> I'm listening...
[20:24] <mmikowski> Well, the "config" is likely initramfs.
[20:24] <mmikowski> What is the GPU?
[20:24] <mmikowski> That he added?
[20:24] <mmikowski> Did he add drivers?
[20:25] <mmikowski> Can you get into a virtual terminal?
[20:25] <mdiehl> He added a DTX1050TI (Asus)
[20:25] <mmikowski> e.g. press <CTRL>+<ALT>+<F2>
[20:25] <mmikowski> to see a login screen?
[20:25] <mdiehl> No login.  Just the opening kubunt msg.
[20:26] <mdiehl> Oh, let me check.
[20:26] <mdiehl> He get's a login prompt.
[20:27] <oerheks> so it did work;  sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall
[20:27] <mmikowski> Ok, I have to get back to work. Assuming you can login to the virtual terminal, you can read how to recreate initramfs here: https://kfocus.org/wf/recovery#bkm_use_a_live
[20:28] <mmikowski> Right, sudo update-initramfs
[20:29] <mdiehl> I ran the sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall from an ssh prompt for what it's worth.
[20:29] <mmikowski> But if you can't get to a VT, you will need the recovery method in the attached article, which is quite a bit more involved, but not hard if you follow the steps.
[20:29] <mdiehl> I appreciate your time and I don't mind reading.
[20:29] <mmikowski> That will regenerate dkms and probably initramfs
[20:29] <mmikowski> Is it resolved?
[20:29] <mdiehl> Thanks.
[20:30] <mmikowski> Yes
[20:30] <mmikowski> ?
[20:30] <mdiehl> Working on it.
[20:31] <mmikowski> You may not need to go to such work. You should be able to update dkms and initramfs after removing the nvidia drivers.
[20:31] <mdiehl> I can work on it from here.  Thanks for the pointer.
[20:31] <mmikowski> ok, good luck. the key is described above.
[20:31] <mdiehl> I believe so.
[20:32] <mmikowski> removed nvidia-drivers which should update dkms and initramfs. Good luck!
[20:45] <foolishMachine> 0h pe0ple talk 1n th1s server
[20:45] <foolishMachine> neat
[20:46] <bprompt> Õ¿Õ
[21:04] <mdiehl> No, it isn't.  I'm gonna reboot on a live DVD and be sure nothing has changed.


[00:28] <IkimashoZ> hello, catfood
[00:35] <IkimashoZ> anyone awake here?
[00:41] <IkimashoZ> ...
[00:46] <hellocatfood> Ello
[00:47] <hellocatfood> Only barely awake
[00:54] <IkimashoZ> hi
[00:54] <IkimashoZ> I want to get involved
[00:54] <IkimashoZ> making icons
[00:55] <IkimashoZ> and other random artwork
[00:55] <IkimashoZ> not so much windows or themes
[00:55] <IkimashoZ> who should I talk to?
[01:02] <hellocatfood> Not sure
[01:02] <hellocatfood> Probably ask on the mailing list
[01:02] <hellocatfood> I'm new here myself
[06:20] <IkimashoZ> anyone here alive yet?
[06:27] <knome> note really. we're all still dead.
[06:27] <knome> or not born yet.
[06:34] <IkimashoZ> darn
[06:34] <IkimashoZ> I want to get involved with graphics
[06:34] <IkimashoZ> how do I start?
[06:35] <knome> IkimashoZ, i think the easiest way is to ask and wait.....
[06:35] <knome> IkimashoZ, we're having uds at the moment and i think that next week we'll have quite a lot of things to do for artists also.
[06:35] <IkimashoZ> ic
[06:38] <IkimashoZ> I've been reading things online about how there was supposed to be a completely new theme for 8.10, but it didn't materialize.  Is that going to be a priority for 9.04?
[06:39] <knome> are you talking about ubuntu, xubuntu or some other flavor?
[06:41] <IkimashoZ> not really sure
[06:41] <IkimashoZ> like I said, random internet mumblings
[06:41] <IkimashoZ> blogs and such
[06:41] <IkimashoZ> probably just rumors
[06:42] <knome> might be.
[12:55] <thorwil> hi!
[12:56] <robsta> hello
[13:05] <robsta> what's new, thorwil
[13:06] <thorwil> robsta: not much. a bit of work on 2 other projects
[13:06] <thorwil> here's hope for the weekend :)
[13:06] <thorwil> robsta: progress on your side?
[13:08] <robsta> thorwil: have been working on css representation of gtk style properties (like "GtkButton::default_border = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }")
[13:08] <robsta> should be finished soon
[13:09] <robsta> thorwil: looks like desktop-wide css use is finally within reach
[13:09] <thorwil> cool
[16:23] <dilomo> hi all
[16:24] <dilomo> thorwil: here's the final version of the top tabs:
[16:24] <dilomo> http://www.piccdrop.com/images/1229012622.png
[16:24] <dilomo> what do you think?
[16:26] <robsta> dilomo: you got it working, kudos
[16:26] <dilomo> :) thanks
[16:27] <dilomo> robsta: btw what's up with the css engine?
[16:27] <robsta> dilomo: lots and lots of legwork, just finishing up setting gtk style properties from css
[16:28] <dilomo> any new themes?
[16:28] <robsta> dilomo: no, but porting pixmap themes should be easy :P
[16:28] <dilomo> :) probably if you understand css
[16:29] <dilomo> I don't but if somebody wishes he can tranlate my theme into css
[16:29]  * thorwil looks
[16:32] <thorwil> dilomo: what are the changes i'm looking for? you made the top border of the page a little bit brighter?
[16:32] <dilomo> yes and it is not pushing down the top part
[16:34] <dilomo> I think I'm ready to go and do the resto of the tab positions (left, right and bottom)
[16:37] <dilomo> thorwil: btw I changed the combo entry a bit. How do you feel it?
[16:40] <thorwil> dilomo: looks almost as if the surface is slightly angled, downwards
[16:41] <thorwil> dilomo: likely because it doesn't have the bottom shadow like the command button
[16:43] <thorwil> dilomo: you could try to make it appear to sit a little bit deeper than regular buttons. with a subtle shadow on top and right side and less bright highlights. o highlights moved in 1px
[16:44] <dilomo> thorwil: yes but in the old version there was a heavy shadow under the button part that was not looking so good. Here's a preview:
[16:44] <dilomo> http://gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=3&id=87134&file1=87134-1.jpg&file2=87134-2.jpg&file3=87134-3.jpg&name=New+Wave
[16:45] <dilomo> thorwil: I will try this highlight movement but I think that on one level with the surface it is ok
[16:46] <thorwil> dilomo: i anticipated that problem, entry and button falling apart. that's why i suggested to "lower" it. although it does not look bad in the old version
[16:50] <thorwil> MetalMusicAddict: have you been started with -v?
[17:35] <dilomo> I have to run
[17:36] <dilomo> bb
[18:14] <_MMA_> thorwil: No I haven't. Does it matter?
[18:15] <_MMA_> And just a note, when my nick is MetalMusicAddict, I'm disconnected.
[18:15] <thorwil> aha
[18:15] <_MMA_> I started usin' bip (http://bip.t1r.net/) with Pidgin.
[18:16] <_MMA_> I just gotta figure out how to keep logging synced with multiple Pidgins.
[18:16] <_MMA_> (different machines)
[18:17] <thorwil> interesting. luckily i feel irc is distraction enough without worrying to log everything :)
[18:18] <_MMA_> Well I need the looging for searching for info in old meetings and such.


[06:56] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:03] <micmac> Hi, are leading zeros accepted in crontab for minutes/hours, or should they be avoided ?
[08:04] <micmac> like "00 01" to trigger something at 1 am or just "0 1" ?
[11:41] <grendal-prime> anyone had any issues with 18.04 to 20.04 upgrade?
[11:42] <grendal-prime> i want to have access to the desktop streaming features in 20.04...i need to cast to a roku tv in our conference room?  also has anyone had an luck with that?
[11:47] <grendal-prime> seems like a pretty benign upgrade with mostly interface enhancements
[14:03] <goddard> hey
[14:04] <goddard> i can't update from 19.04?
[14:05] <mgedmin> goddard: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
[14:05] <goddard> getting an error
[14:07] <goddard> where is my sources.list file?
[14:07] <mybalzitch> /etc/apt/
[14:07] <goddard> thanks
[14:13] <lotuspsychje> goddard: be carefull upgrading from eol releases for security issues
[14:13] <lotuspsychje> !usn | goddard see
[14:21] <goddard> probably easier to just move the data over to a new install
[14:21] <goddard> its just a cloud vm so i can keep the same ip with a new OS install
[14:42] <teward> goddard: i would suggest moving data to a new install, yes.  especially if your system is very EOL.
[14:42] <goddard> 19.04
[15:28] <teward> yikes yeah that's EOL, I'd spin a new 20.04 system up and then move your data over
[15:28] <teward> since 19.04 has been dead for over a year


[12:20] <xnox> Timeout error, please try again in a few minutes.
[12:20] <xnox> OK
[12:21] <xnox> is there a status page for launchpad availability?
[12:21] <xnox> next downtime appears to be scheduled for the 26th
[12:23] <cjwatson> There's no scheduled downtime at the moment.
[12:23] <cjwatson> Nor unscheduled downtime.  A timeout is usually just a slow page.
[12:23] <cjwatson> And if you're reporting one, you must quote the OOPS ID or the report is fairly useless.


[14:30] <cpaelzer> hiho
[14:31] <cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
[14:31] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 23 14:31:12 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:31] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[14:31] <cpaelzer> ddstreet: jamespage: doko: didrocks: sarnold: joeubuntu: - hi
[14:31] <ddstreet> o/
[14:31] <doko> hi
[14:31] <jamespage> o/
[14:31] <cpaelzer> did I miss anybody, I feel like I count one too few
[14:31] <cpaelzer> anyway lets get started, you poitn out in case I missed someone
[14:31] <cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
[14:32] <joeubuntu> o/
[14:32] <cpaelzer> no actions of last week, so - done
[14:32] <cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
[14:32] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
[14:32] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
[14:32] <cpaelzer> Mostly usual suspects we know from last time - we still have:
[14:32] <cpaelzer> - jeepney for jamespage
[14:32] <cpaelzer> - uboot for waveform
[14:32] <cpaelzer> One actual new entry rsync -> xxhash
[14:32] <cpaelzer> Does anyone have context on this one?
[14:32] <cpaelzer> It was in main in D&E, so it mist have been pre-MIRed right?
[14:33] <cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/teckit/+bug/1803230
[14:33] <cpaelzer> that included xxhash
[14:34] <didrocks> (hey)
[14:34] <cpaelzer> didrocks: is desktop still subscribed and if so are you ok re-promoting it under the old bug?
[14:34] <didrocks> cpaelzer: I can pass the message on, but being on holidays in a couple of hours, I can’t sign up for tracking
[14:35] <doko> but apparently would need a new subscriber
[14:35] <doko> or another
[14:35] <didrocks> IIRC there has been some discussions about the whole tex stack
[14:35] <didrocks> like, not being very desktopish
[14:35] <cpaelzer> or the newly added dependency in rsync has to be dropped
[14:36] <didrocks> yeah
[14:36] <cpaelzer> didrocks: as a suggestion, would you mind passing this on to the desktop team so that next week someone else is here to answer if you would take it (again) or not?
[14:36] <didrocks> cpaelzer: sure, doing it
[14:36] <cpaelzer> ok - from there we can go on then
[14:36] <cpaelzer> thanks
[14:36] <doko> cpaelzer: the better solution is to subscribe server or foundations to it
[14:37] <sarnold> good morning
[14:37] <cpaelzer> doko: if we want to keep it in I agree, but more often than not in such cases it end up no team wanting to own it
[14:37] <cpaelzer> doko: but if you ask around and next week know if "you'd take it if desktop passes" then that would be ok as well
[14:39] <cpaelzer> doko: we can sort out next week who of us will take a look after the desktop team is back with a clear answer on their state of it
[14:39] <cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
[14:39] <cpaelzer> this week we have a few
[14:39] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[14:39] <cpaelzer> jeepney is known and in process by security
[14:40] <cpaelzer> totally new we seem to have
[14:40] <cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libinih/+bug/1883890
[14:40] <cpaelzer> a lib for "not invented here" nice
[14:41] <sarnold> :)
[14:41] <cpaelzer> further we have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libjcat/+bug/1884003
[14:41] <cpaelzer> a security lib for fwupd
[14:41] <cpaelzer> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-teluguvijayam/+bug/1877134
[14:41] <cpaelzer> those three need to be assigned
[14:41] <cpaelzer> I at least have a friedn speaking telugu in case we need to check the real font
[14:41] <cpaelzer> so I'd volunteer for the last one
[14:42] <cpaelzer> others for nig and jcat ?
[14:42] <cpaelzer> nih and jcat
[14:42] <cpaelzer> 3/3 fonts packages I looked at in the past where very awkward - I hop ethis one is better
[14:43] <ddstreet> i can volunteer for one of them
[14:43] <seb128> cpaelzer, note that the font got promoted already so I was unsure if the MIR was needed but I still filed it
[14:44] <cpaelzer> oh really, maybe it was MIRed in the past already then
[14:44] <cpaelzer>  fonts-teluguvijayam | 1.0-3 | groovy          | source, all
[14:44] <cpaelzer> indeed seb128
[14:44] <cpaelzer> thanks
[14:44] <ddstreet> the 'libinih' name will probably confuse people, since upstart used 'libnih' which i believe is a totally different lib
[14:44] <sarnold> I haven't done a mir from the side of the mir team yet; libjcat feels likely to be a good, small, starting point
[14:44] <cpaelzer> it is INI parsing
[14:45] <cpaelzer> sarnold: if you want that would be great, otherwise I'll do it as my fonts package just got cancelled
[14:45] <cpaelzer> ddstreet: jcat for you then
[14:45] <cpaelzer> sarnold: and you let me know  if you run into any trouble
[14:45] <ddstreet> sounds good :)
[14:46] <cpaelzer> assigned
[14:46] <cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
[14:46] <seb128> cpaelzer, no, it was not MIRed in the past
[14:46] <cpaelzer> Last update on incomplete bugs was on 2020-05-12, no need to bring this subtopic up in more detail
[14:46] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[14:46] <cpaelzer> oh - interesting seb128
[14:46] <cpaelzer> lets continue that in the next topic then
[14:46] <cpaelzer> which is ...
[14:46] <cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
[14:46] <cpaelzer> doko: do we have any tracking who promoted something and why?
[14:47] <cpaelzer> from the archive admin POV I mean?
[14:47] <cpaelzer> seb128: ^^ ?
[14:47] <didrocks> I think everyone can see this, no?
[14:47] <seb128> cpaelzer, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-teluguvijayam/+publishinghistory
[14:47] <didrocks> in the publishing hist
[14:47] <doko> cpaelzer: see the publishing history
[14:47] <seb128> vorlon did it
[14:47] <seb128> but no reason recorded there though
[14:47] <seb128> so best to check with Steve
[14:48] <cpaelzer> well let me do the review then and either retrofit the Ack - or mention in case I don't agree
[14:48] <seb128> right
[14:48] <seb128> it made me wodner if there was an unstated policy that fonts don't need a MIR anymore
[14:48] <seb128> would be nice :)
[14:48] <cpaelzer> ok, this is on my plate to sort out then
[14:49] <cpaelzer> vorlon: ^^ in case you see this feel free to contact me as well if you have bonus info :-)
[14:49] <cpaelzer> we done with the meeting then, unless there is "other other business"
[14:49] <cpaelzer> is there ?
[14:49] <cpaelzer> ok we count out to 42 todady with Catalan numbers
[14:50] <cpaelzer> 1
[14:50] <cpaelzer> 1
[14:50] <cpaelzer> 2
[14:50] <cpaelzer> 5
[14:50] <cpaelzer> 14
[14:50] <cpaelzer> 42
[14:50] <cpaelzer> ok thanks everyone
[14:50] <sarnold> nice, thanks cpaelzer, all :)
[14:50] <cpaelzer> #endmeeting
[14:50] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 23 14:50:22 2020 UTC.
[14:50] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-06-23-14.31.moin.txt
[14:50] <ddstreet> o/
[14:50] <ddstreet> bye all
[14:51] <didrocks> thanks cpaelzer :)
[14:52] <seb128> cpaelzer, I'm unsure to understand why https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.html lists xxhash in the desktop section?
[14:52] <seb128> if rsync is what pulls it in
[14:53] <seb128> according to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rsync the subscribed teams are foundations and server
[14:57] <cpaelzer> seb128: xxhash was subscribed by desktop before
[14:57] <cpaelzer> and actually still has to be for it being in eoan main
[14:57] <doko> seb128: because it's still desktop responsibilty for the release version
[14:57] <cpaelzer> I ahve linked the old MIR above
[14:57] <doko> released
[14:59] <seb128> cpaelzer, doko, desktop-packages are still subscribed but I don't think it's fair for that package to fall of us only going forward, we do work to reduce our maintainance load and got dropped things back because they used to be on our set
[15:00] <cpaelzer> which is exactly what was mentioned above
[15:00] <seb128> also 19.10 is out of support
[15:00] <seb128> I don't understand <doko> seb128: because it's still desktop responsibilty for the release version
[15:00] <cpaelzer> see "[16:36] <doko> cpaelzer: the better solution is to subscribe server or foundations to it"
[15:00] <seb128> it's not in main for any supported serie
[15:00] <cpaelzer> there is no automatic unsubscribtion seb128
[15:00] <seb128> right
[15:01] <seb128> cpaelzer, sorry I joined mid meeting and saw your
 doko: we can sort out next week who of us will take a look after the desktop team is back with a clear answer on their state of it
[15:01] <seb128> I was just stating that we are not interested to be listed for it
[15:01] <cpaelzer> seb128: at the end there is the link to the log
[15:01] <cpaelzer> so you can recover the rest
[15:01] <cpaelzer> :-)
[15:02] <seb128> right, I did now, it takes some time for the logs to update
[15:02] <cpaelzer> seb128: if no release is left you might unsubscribe and if you want to be kind state so on the MIR bug why
[15:02] <seb128> cpaelzer, ack, I will do that
[15:04] <seb128> cpaelzer, commented
[17:34] <vorlon> cpaelzer, seb128: was that a case of a font being promoted because it had been split out into a separate source package?  Those wouldn't normally need to go through MIR.  Or, yes, I could've assumed it didn't need an MIR because it was a font


[00:54] <ScottL> holstein, do you think you could help with the team report for this (really last) month?  it would be due in seven days
[01:00] <holstein> ScottL: yes
[01:01] <holstein> i have a couple action items to get on
[01:01] <holstein> ScottL: im off tomorrow (so far)
[01:01] <holstein> i'll try and get cracking on it then
[01:02] <holstein> i think i'll get back too late tonite to catch you
[01:43] <ScottL> holstein, great!  thank you a lot :)  i'll help as well though
[01:46]  * ScottL is happy because he got pulse to work jack tonight using pulseaudio-module-jack
[01:46] <ScottL> i managed to record sound from youtube via firefox via jacksink into ardour through my delta44
[01:48] <crimsun> heh
[01:50] <falktx_> ScottL: pulse routed to jack ?
[01:50]  * falktx_ is interested on new methods
[01:50] <ScottL> eh, i'm using pulseaudio-module-jack to do it
[01:51] <ScottL> tonight was the first phase, just getting it working
[01:51] <ScottL> now i'll try to quantify it better and see the performance
[01:51] <ScottL> i'll be honest, it is apparently unusable on the onboard audio
[01:51] <ScottL> but on my delta44 is seems pretty damn good so far
[01:52] <ScottL> i'm curious how many people in ubuntu studio are using two audio cards
[01:52] <ScottL> maybe i shoudl just disable my onboard in bios
[01:54] <falktx_> ScottL: but how do you make pulse to bridge to jack?
[01:54] <falktx_> pulseaudio-module-jack is the module, but you need to do something to trigger the bridge...
[02:01] <ScottL> apparently jackdbus is happening now
[02:02] <ScottL> i'm not really up on all the technical aspect but i'm following what david h. said basically on the -devel mailing list
[02:02] <ScottL> falktx_,
[02:02] <ScottL> ^^^^
[02:03] <falktx_> ScottL: well, jackdbus does not do that
[02:03] <ScottL> david had said that things should "just work" now and it seems like it is
[02:03] <falktx_> jackdbus simply stops/starts jack as pulseaudio demans
[02:03] <ScottL> here's what i did
[02:03] <ScottL> unmuted my speakers first with enyv24control :)
[02:03] <ScottL> :P
[02:04] <ScottL> then i installed pulseaudio-module-jack
[02:04] <ScottL> restarted machine
[02:04] <ScottL> started firefox, found video, and started playing it
[02:04] <ScottL> using pavucontrol i made sure it was playing through delta44
[02:04] <ScottL> started qjackctl
[02:05] <ScottL> set jack for delta card and started jack
[02:05] <ScottL> oh, when i ran pavucontrol i think i actually set the stream to go through "jacksink"
[02:05] <ScottL> jack connections now show a jacksink input, routed it into ardour and recorded it
[02:07] <ScottL> falktx_, and i thought pulseaudio-module-jack _was_ the bridge
[02:09] <falktx_> ScottL: yes, kinda. you still need to make pulse connect to jack manually
[02:11] <ScottL> falktx_, in the qjackctl connections window i made the connection between the jacksink input and the ardour track
[02:16] <ScottL> falktx_, did you see what i typed last about using qjackctl to connect from jacksink to ardour?
[02:16] <ScottL> is this what you are talking about?
[02:20] <falktx_> ScottL: beh, forget this
[02:20] <falktx_> I'm still happy with my pulse-jack thing
[02:21] <falktx_> if you use jack all the time, even if not making music, it makes sense to have pulseaudio always bridged
[02:21] <ScottL> falktx_,  is there still confusion on how i made the bridge?
[02:21] <falktx_> my little script makes pulseaudio do that right from the login ;)
[02:21] <ScottL> is there something that i'm excluding perhaps or not explaining correctly?
[02:22] <falktx_> ScottL: you made the bridge when you selected the pulseaudio output as jacksink
[02:22] <falktx_> that is the key
[02:22] <ScottL> okay :)  good then
[02:23] <ScottL> i seem to be doing it right i assume
[05:49] <holstein> ScottL: your out right?
[13:12] <scott-work> buenos dias
[13:40] <scott-work> ailo: i made some changes to the help.ubuntu.com page mock-up:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#help.ubuntu.com%20landing%20page
[13:42] <ailo> scott-work, You're working on having the whole documentation live in the wiki, right?
[13:42] <ailo> I'm assuming..
[13:43] <scott-work> ailo:  i am using the sandbox just to play with it until we get the correct form then it will be put into https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio
[13:43] <scott-work> and i think all the user documentation should be located at help.ubuntu.com
[13:43] <scott-work> i also think that all the developer/contributer documentation should be in wiki.ubuntu.com
[13:44] <scott-work> which means that none of this will directly be located on the website (although we may see about mirroring it there)
[13:44] <scott-work> does that answer your question?
[13:44]  * scott-work was unsure
[13:45] <ailo> scott-work, Yeah. I think it looks good. No need to have documentation on the main site then.
[13:45] <ailo> I like it
[13:46] <scott-work> good :)
[13:46] <ailo> Then https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio should really be clean and professional, right?
[13:46] <scott-work> although i still would like to make a few other aesthetic changes to make it prettier and more integrated with itself
[13:47] <scott-work> i would like it to be clean and professional, yes
[13:47]  * scott-work worries that he isn't the right person to make it clean and professional though
[13:48] <scott-work> my primary concern is making it
[13:48] <scott-work> 1. contain thorough and essentially needed information for users
[13:49] <scott-work> 2. make it immediate accessible via structuring without needing to hunt through pages
[13:49] <scott-work> this is why i wanted to make https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio a landing page with broad links to other categories/wikis
[13:50] <scott-work> hopefully no more than three clicks will lead a user to the information they need
[13:50] <ailo> It makes sense
[13:50] <scott-work> i think trying to squeeze all the links, especially with the inclusion of work flows, tutorial videos, etc, into the front page would be too much
[13:52] <ailo> I have this 5-categories-per-level theory
[13:53] <ailo> Unless it's an index, which should be ordered alphabetically or numerally
[13:54] <ailo> If you have no more than 3-7 categories to choose from, you get a very nice overview of the information
[13:55] <ailo> If the frontpage has 3-7 links/categories, then each of them could have either 3-7 categories/links or a full text on a subject.
[13:55] <ailo> Something like that
[13:56] <ailo> But, first, you need to know what the material is about and how to cagorize it. Which is a sub-category to something else and so on
[13:58] <ailo> Anyway, I don't have any clear opinions on the outlay of the front page at the moment. But, I do think it's good to do some sketches and work on what is possible graphically
[14:00] <ailo> And about categories/links - I'm sure there's all kinds of science for it. I base my 3-7 category amount on human perception. When we look at something, we can easily see those amounts without needing to count. It's easy to orientate.
[14:02] <ailo> As for the actual categorization - I think I would like to follow other examples, like the standard Ubuntu Documentation and whatever comes to mind. It's a little chicken and the egg, though. Do you start with the categories, or do you base the categories on the material?
[14:02] <ailo> I would like to start with the material that I know for sure we need.
[14:03] <ailo> This way, I know exactly what I need to work on right now :)
[14:04] <ailo> So, that's why I would like to start with just gathering all the material I can find on Hardware issues and installation and try to condense that into some sort of readable text.
[14:10] <scott-work> ailo:  that is why i was focusing on :  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos
[14:10] <scott-work> i wanted to identify what material or information users might need
[14:10] <scott-work> granted the introduction sections probably should be moved to the website
[14:11] <scott-work> this presumes that the introduction stuff would be for people who have not already decided to use or are using ubuntu studio and therefore should be on the website as an outreach program
[14:11] <scott-work> ailo: please feel free to add or rearrange https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos as needed
[14:11] <scott-work> i would really like to develop an organizational chart to help us with doing the documentation
[14:12]  * scott-work realizes this may be an iterative process and likely to change throughout the entire process
[14:14] <ailo> What is important here, I think, is to think from a non-Linux point of view when doing the front page
[14:15] <ailo> Any Linux specific issues should of course be highlighted, but they might not have the same priority for a common user as for a Linux user
[14:40] <scott-work> ailo:  how inovled do you want to get with non-linux topics?
[14:41] <scott-work> i'm not adverse to including some helpful tips but i really didn't want to hold user's hands that haven't used linux before too much
[14:42] <ailo> scott-work, It's not that I want there to be additional topics, that are non-linux. Just that the form of the documentation can easily get unfriendly towards someone who doesn't know anything about Linux
[14:42] <scott-work> i was hoping that we might condense some topics that non-linux users would need and then provide links to existing documetnation
[14:42] <scott-work> oh, yeah, that makes sense ailo , i understand :)
[14:43] <scott-work> right, which is why i had structured the IntroTutVideo structure like i did, but i think that it's perhaps too much for the user documenation
[14:43] <scott-work> ailo: do you think we should include "what is ubuntu studio" in the user documentation?
[14:43]  * scott-work is second guessing himself too much
[14:43] <ailo> Absolutely
[14:44] <ailo> It think the documentation should be just as readable to anyone
[15:14] <scott-work> ailo:  then we will include the "what is ubuntu studio" stuff in the user documentaiton
[15:14] <holstein> scott-work: team reports?
[15:14] <scott-work> holstein: sure
[15:14] <scott-work> ailo: i don't mind doing the intial effort but i would certainly appreciate it you would proof read it afterwards
[15:14] <scott-work> holstein: what do you know about team reports
[15:14] <scott-work> ?
[15:15] <ailo> scott-work, Of course :). I will do my best with making it readable English. I will need someone who speaks English natively to double-check, though
[15:15] <holstein> well, i helped AKgraner do ours for our loco once
[15:15] <holstein> its been a LONG time though
[15:15] <holstein> AND, it could be differnt for us i suppose
[15:16] <holstein> they are monthly too?
[15:16] <holstein> ailo: i can do that
[15:16] <holstein> just hit me up
[15:16] <holstein> ailo: hello by the way
[15:16] <ailo> hi holstein
[15:20] <holstein> scott-work: looks like we need one for april and may right?
[15:23] <scott-work> holstein: probably so and yes, they are montly
[15:23] <scott-work> we will also need to update the "current" one, that is, the one with current in the link
[15:23] <holstein> scott-work: im making april and may stubs
[15:24]  * holstein looking for current
[15:24]  * scott-work is finding his links
[15:25] <scott-work> main ubuntu studio team reports page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports
[15:25] <scott-work> the "current" team report:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/Current
[15:25] <scott-work> this shows up on the master team report page via an <<include LINK>> on that page, this way the link is always current
[15:25] <holstein> AH, of course
[15:26] <holstein> i was in /11/Current looking around ;)
[15:26] <scott-work> apparently, this was the last one that i had worked on or finished (don't remember):  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/11/March
[15:26] <scott-work> it's not very formatted per their instructions, it just followed a form that i derived
[15:26] <scott-work> please feel free to change forms
[15:27] <holstein> scott-work: where are thier instructions?
[15:27] <scott-work> our TeamReports has the only instructions we were given, so reference them
[15:27] <holstein> and do we turn it in?
[15:27] <scott-work> we don't as far as i know
[15:27] <holstein> OK
[15:27] <scott-work> they get it from the /Current one i believe
[15:27] <holstein> so, its probably cool to just follow what you had goind on
[15:27] <holstein> going*
[15:28] <holstein> formatting-wise
[15:28] <holstein> its nice and clean
[15:34] <scott-work> or change it if you think something works better :)
[15:34] <scott-work> holstein: did you see what i'm dorking with for the landing page for the user documentation?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#help.ubuntu.com%20landing%20page
[15:34] <scott-work> ignore the colors at this point
[15:35] <holstein> looking good
[15:35] <holstein> i like the 2nd header there too
[15:36] <scott-work> i'm still playing with the general format, including borders or not, playing with line weights, line types,
[15:36] <scott-work> i think i can include the sidebar into the main body part so it doesn't seem to be so detached, but so that it just seems to contain slightly different content
[15:37] <scott-work> holstein: that header was something that i was dorking with for a while, i don't like colors anymore but it's certainly a start
[15:37] <scott-work> although i think we could even make it more unobstrusive be eliminating the "ubuntu studio header" area :P
[15:38] <holstein> good point
[15:48] <scott-work> new iteration of help.ubuntu.com page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#help.ubuntu.com%20landing%20page
[15:51] <scott-work> not only did i manage to get the sidebar into the main body section i was playing around with different types of headings in the body
[16:18] <scott-work> hi falktx :)
[16:18] <falktx> hey
[16:18] <scott-work> you are a building guy today
[16:19] <falktx> building guy?
[16:20] <scott-work> you've been pushing releases for kxstudio today
[16:20] <scott-work> building packages :P
[16:21] <falktx> yes
[16:21] <falktx> lots of errors though
[16:22] <falktx> I'm trying to push the latest lilv, serd, sord, suil stuff too, so qtractor 0.4.9 can be build
[16:23] <falktx> also mumble+jack, which has some issues too
[16:23] <falktx> it's tricky
[16:23] <falktx> scott-work: sorry about those mails...
[16:33] <falktx> sorry my network is just too bad, I'll be offline
[16:36] <scott-work> i don't even know what lilv, serd,sord, and suil are :(
[16:36] <scott-work> but the kxstudio emails don't bother me
[17:11] <astraljava> o/
[19:19] <scott-work> another iteration of the user documentation landing page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox
[19:19] <scott-work> holstein: ailo ^^^
[19:19] <scott-work> give me your honest impressions and thoughts
[19:19] <scott-work> tell me it sucks if that's what you think
[19:20] <ailo> scott-work, I like the colors, but I don't think it's easy to read
[19:25] <scott-work> ailo: do you think it is difficult to read because of the colors?  the text size? other reasons?
[19:26] <scott-work> i have trouble reading the new help.ubuntu.com pages anyways because of the font or the size or the background or the combination of all three!
[19:26] <scott-work> for example, this page is difficult to read without any formatting:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox/Header
[19:27] <ailo> scott-work, I agree. The new Ubuntu default style is pretty poor, even after they improved it a bit
[19:28] <ailo> scott-work, On your page, I think the text is not sorted. It looks like a lot of text. I think it needs bigger headings, more space, that sort of thing
[19:28] <ailo> And I wouldn't mind creating a couple of more colored boxes
[19:28] <scott-work> ailo: agreed, i tried using the default spacings and it doesn't really look quite organized
[19:28] <scott-work> ailo: we could totally do that!
[19:29] <scott-work> i would like to do that and most people have not liked it before so i shy away from it now :/
[19:29] <scott-work> i did play with underlining headings and making them bolder, which was probably the best result anyways
[19:30] <ailo> I think you can skip most of the text too
[19:30] <ailo> At least on the front page
[19:31] <ailo> Just keep the headers as links and maybe just a one line description
[19:31] <ailo> Really shorten it up. Make it more compact
[19:32] <ailo> Don't think we can decide on what Headers/Links there should be yet, but you could still work on the design idea
[19:35] <scott-work> try it now (but i didn't remove most of the text yet)
[19:40] <scott-work> ailo: most of the links are dummy links, i just added two somewhat related capitalized words together so that it would show up as a link, if you clicked it it would take to you a blank wiki page
[19:41] <scott-work> ailo: but would you object to moving forward with the headers as shown?  i understand that we probably will be changing them as we progress, but at least this gives us a place to link to and from
[19:42] <ailo> scott-work, It looks better now, but I would still want to ditch most of the text in favor of just keeping Topics as links
[19:42] <ailo> And maybe a one-line description for each Topic
[19:42] <ailo> I don't know any good examples from the top of my head, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to look around a little
[19:44] <scott-work> ailo: i agree with making the descriptions short and i will
[19:45] <ailo> scott-work, I think it would be nice to be able to see most of it in one window. And different topics could have different coloring perhaps
[19:46] <ailo> Maybe some topics belong together?
[19:46] <ailo> And then they could be in a box of it's own
[19:46] <ailo> Sort of like you have done with the misc panel
[20:29] <scott-work> reading backscroll
[20:29] <scott-work> ailo: sorry, had people coming to my desk for a while
[20:29] <scott-work> yeah, i agree that seeing it in one window would be good
[20:30] <scott-work> do you think that some of the topics would belong together?
[20:30] <scott-work> i'm thinking that most of the heading would be greatly diverse, unless we backed up pretty far and used very gross categorizations
[20:30] <scott-work> like Info    Usage    Support
[20:31] <scott-work> if we moved hardware under installation we could also move optimization under there as well
[20:31] <scott-work> or we could group them together in a colored box
[20:32] <scott-work> i imagine that there will be some redundancy, not necessarily of information but possibly links to that information
[20:59] <scott-work> hi thomashc :)
[20:59] <thomashc> hello scott-work
[21:31] <ailo> scott-work, I really don't know about the categorization yet, but I know I'd like something simple and clean. It's a help page right? It's a portal to information. I can't think further than that right now without getting a little dizzy. That's why I want to start compiling some basic material first
[23:11] <astraljava> Anyone else have problems with playing flash videos with sound after the latest update? This on AMD64.
[23:37] <iHaku> Did I miss any important discussions in IRC?  My connection has been out for a little while.
[23:48] <ScottL> ailo_, would you like to brainstorm which pages we think we need?  we can record them on the sandbox page
[23:48] <holstein> ScottL: im tied up with a few things for a bit
[23:48] <holstein> but, i still should be able to knock out the reports by the weekend :)
[23:48] <ScottL> ailo_, maybe then we would be able to discren a pattern and derive some headings
[23:48] <ScottL> oh good, holstein  :)


[03:20] <DBO> MDC1, you here?
[12:41] <mac_v> ara: regarding... Bug #444548  , i dont understand. there are only 4 icons for volume. high , medium , low and mute , you can see the different icons in the usr/share/Humanity/status/24/ , the volume mute is very different from volume low. if there is some other problem it must be a bug in the volume applet
[12:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 444548 in humanity-icon-theme "Not having a muted icon for the volume applet causes confusion" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444548
[12:43] <mac_v> i'm not sure the bug is in humanity but rather think its a bug in the volume applet
[12:43] <mdc_work> mac_v, seems to be working for me :)
[12:44] <mac_v> works for me too... but confused why the bug is filed in humanity
[13:52] <ara> mac_v, way to do reproduce it, turn the volume down completely, shows the muted icon, right click, unmute, and it is the same icon, but different stats
[13:53] <ara> s/stats/states
[13:54] <mac_v> ara: hmm... ok. so how do we fix this? new icon for the volume 0? i dont like how it was previously in human , [using volume low for volume 0]
[13:54] <mac_v> ara: could you check the last comment i wrote
[13:54]  * ara checks
[13:57] <ara> mac_v, I commented the bug
[13:57] <ara> "I think the zero volume icon should be the same as low, but without the darken of the last trunk. That will make the difference between the two."
[13:58] <mac_v> ara: yeah , i was thinking the same too
[14:30] <mdc_work> DBO, now i am (but at work)
[14:30] <DBO> ah I was wondering if you know where in the nautilus codebase the icons on the sidebar for mounted volumes are created
[14:31] <DBO> mmm just asking makes me find it
[14:31] <DBO> nevermind
[14:33] <mdc_work> hehe :)
[14:45] <DBO> hiiiiiiiiiiii MacSlow
[14:46] <MacSlow> DBO, hey Jason
[14:46] <MacSlow> DBO, just debugging the nasty dbus issue in notify-osd
[14:46] <MacSlow> DBO, thanks for the forkbomb-script... Neil gave it to me this morning
[14:46] <DBO> it was fun to write
[14:47] <DBO> I'll have you know I ran it first :P
[14:47] <MacSlow> :)
[14:47] <DBO> I was thinking about how to solve this issue however
[14:47] <DBO> it really does come down to simply not giving dbus back what it wants in a timely manner, right?
[14:48] <DBO> so lets just dispatch all whatever work that was going to get done into an glib idle handler, and return to dbus what it wants pretty much right away
[14:48] <DBO> this should prevent notify OSD from ever ever ever being slow with the response
[14:48] <DBO> also, neil is smelly
[14:49] <DBO> Neil, what do you think of dispatching all the work notify-osd is going to do on incoming dbus calls into a glib idle handlers, and then freeing ourselves up to reply to dbus immediately?
[14:51] <DBO> mmm I think I have been too obtuse
[14:52] <MacSlow> DBO, Neil is busy atm talking with Jay and David
[14:53] <DBO> so MacSlow, what do you think of dispatching the handling of incoming calls
[14:54] <MacSlow> DBO, it makes sense
[14:54] <MacSlow> I cannot see what possible side-effects that might have
[14:54] <DBO> well there is one easy way to find out
[14:55] <MacSlow> doing it of course :I
[14:55] <MacSlow> :)
[14:55] <DBO> but the quickest one I can think of is that hammering notify osd with that script will result in starving out all notifications (most likely)
[14:55] <MacSlow> just looking at stack.c:564
[14:55] <DBO> it be nice if that method were shorter
[14:55] <DBO> just moe all the non-dbus stuff into another method
[14:56] <MacSlow> I'm on it
[14:56] <DBO> also
[14:56] <DBO> there is a condition where you return true AND set error
[14:56] <DBO> this is incorrect
[14:57] <DBO> that should return false I believe
[14:57] <MacSlow> some people more familiar with DBus advised me to do that
[14:57] <MacSlow> the reason behind that I cannot recall atm
[14:57] <DBO> really?
[14:58] <DBO> okay, I will trust, the spec sheet says not to though *makes note*
[14:58] <DBO> probably should add a comment in there to that effect
[14:58] <MacSlow> DBO, it has to always return true
[14:58] <MacSlow> just asked ted
[14:58] <DBO> why does the dbus specification say to return false if you set an error?
[14:58] <DBO> ted isn't here is he?
[14:59] <MacSlow> tedg, he is
[14:59]  * DBO pokes tedg
[15:00] <tedg> Heh, it should probably return FALSE, but I thought there was a bug.
[15:00] <tedg> I mean, it'd be better to return false, but I doubt that's the issue.
[15:01] <DBO> ok
[15:02] <DBO> i suspect somewhere we have a poorly performing or IO bound thing happening between dbus call received and dbus call returned
[15:02] <DBO> and this is causing the hangups
[15:09] <DBO> DanRabbit,
[15:09] <DanRabbit> hey!
[15:09] <DBO> you desire to pull latest Docky 2.0, it contains a mounted volumes plugin
[15:10] <DanRabbit> I've been having trouble compiling
[15:10] <DanRabbit> unresolved dependencies
[15:10] <DBO> well give me the error
[15:10] <DanRabbit> I'm just missing some packages
[15:10] <DanRabbit> I have to not be lazy and go hunt them down
[15:11] <DanRabbit> but, check these out: http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/Docky2/Docky_alt2.svg and http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/Docky2/Docky.svg
[15:11] <DanRabbit> And PsyberS liked this one, http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/Docky2/Docky_alt.svg
[15:14] <DanRabbit> DBO: hey, I'm totally late for school
[15:14] <DanRabbit> so, I'll catch you later ;)
[15:14] <DBO> looking
[15:14] <DBO> later
[15:15] <DBO> oh man those are awesome
[15:15] <DanRabbit> let me know if you like any of those and then I can do all sizes
[15:15] <DBO> I love the white anchor
[15:15] <DanRabbit> DBO: btw, I'm starting on monochrome panel icons in elementary
[15:16]  * DBO gets ready to switch back
[15:16] <DanRabbit> you should pull bzr, I've got the wireless
[15:16] <DBO> awesome
[15:17] <DanRabbit> next is volume :D
[15:17] <DanRabbit> okay really g2g
[15:17] <DanRabbit> bye :D
[15:17] <DBO> awesome
[15:17] <DBO> love you babe
[15:24] <DBO> DanRabbit, go to school
[15:34] <djsiegel> mac_v DanRabbit lool, did Humanity get the U1 icons?
[15:37] <mac_v> djsiegel: yup
[15:41] <DBO> djsiegel, did you see the new Docky icon mockup?
[15:41] <djsiegel> DBO, no, can I see later? Pretty busy now.
[15:42] <DBO> roger
[16:06] <lool> djsiegel: You dont run karmic?
[16:50] <mac_v> lool: djsiegel at times doesnt even run Ubuntu ;p
[17:02] <lool> mac_v: haha
[17:03] <lool> mac_v: I'll be away in the next days; do you have upload contacts for humanity-icon-theme while I'm abroad?
[17:03] <lool> mac_v: I'd recommend chatting with pitti if you need to get any update; he's desktop team tech lead and release manager and aware of the humanity status
[17:03] <djsiegel> lool mac_v, that is so unfair
[17:03] <lool> mac_v: If you like we can do a status summary when I come back (Monday)
[17:04] <djsiegel> I have been an ubuntu user since it came out, and was running Karmic until last night when dist-upgrade made X crash on every login, returning me to GDM!
[17:04] <djsiegel> so there!
[17:04] <mac_v> djsiegel: ;p
[17:04] <djsiegel> But, yes, I am on snow leopard until I sort out Karmic...
[17:04] <mac_v> lool: i think we can do the next update on monday , or if needed i can as pitti , but do mention it to him also
[17:04] <djsiegel> But don't you want your designers exposed to other OSes?
[17:04] <djsiegel> ;)
[17:05]  * mac_v hates djsiegel getting ideas from OSX :/
[17:05] <djsiegel> mac_v: I hope that means you're not a GNOME Do user :)
[17:06] <djsiegel> anyway, ideas don't materialize out of nothing unfortunately
[17:06] <mac_v> ;)
[17:06] <djsiegel> it's incredibly frustrating when people want you to design something, but somehow not be influenced by past work
[17:06] <djsiegel> it's the exact opposite expectation of open source, where you are free and encouraged to build on past work of others
[17:07] <mac_v> djsiegel: lol , calm down :)
[17:07]  * mac_v was just kidding
[17:08] <djsiegel> I am calm :)
[17:53] <DBO> chaotic, when you got a chance can I borrow you for some quick feedback?
[18:27] <jcastro> tedg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
[18:27] <jcastro> you cannot escape me ted gould
[18:28] <mrooney|w> oh yeah, I was trying to figure out something to give a talk on last night!
[18:29] <mrooney|w> but most things I could think of seem more appropriate for a developer week
[18:29] <jcastro> heh
[18:30] <mrooney|w> open week is specifically aimed at non-developers right?
[18:31] <jcastro> yeah
[18:31] <jcastro> but you can have a bit of stuff in there
[18:31] <tedg> jcastro: I can't, but the wireless in Montreal can!
[18:32] <DBO> tedg, its all the moose, they chew on the wifi signals
[18:32] <tedg> DBO: It's the Tim Horton doughnuts, they make to me too slow to catch the packets!
[18:32] <DBO> also, moose antlers, when in high enough concentration act like a Faraday cage
[18:35] <mrooney|w> hm, there isn't anyone talking about getting started with bug triaging...I wonder if that would be useful
[18:39] <djsiegel> mac_v: ping
[18:40] <djsiegel> mac_v: You should be working on a non-trunk branch of humanity moving forward, not with an Incoming folder in the trunk branch :)
[18:47] <mac_v> djsiegel: bah... i think we wont be doing anymore icons.. it was just created more for jonian.. he kept adding too many icons :) he is a machine
[18:47] <djsiegel> mac_v: ah, ok
[18:48] <djsiegel> mac_v: please just use branches
[18:48] <DBO> how many people are working on icons?
[18:48] <mac_v> 3
[18:48] <DBO> erm
[18:48] <DBO> humanity
[18:48] <djsiegel> we should be working off of a karmic branch of humanity and only do changes based on UIF approved bugs
[18:48] <djsiegel> since we're working off of trunk, more work is going on that isn't being carefully reviewed, and it becomes hard to figure out which revisions are blessed
[18:49] <mac_v> djsiegel: dont worry , i dont expect any more icons ;)  they are almost all done more than what human theme ever had and nearly equal to gnome
[18:50] <djsiegel> mac_v:  awesome work
[18:51] <mac_v> djsiegel: the funny thing was we just zoomed since you said Ubuntu was using humanity and did nearly 160 revs.. that really made lool dizzy ;p
[18:52] <mac_v> most of the revs were minor color edits .. some icons got 4-5 edits untill all 3 of us agreed upon using it ;)
[20:03] <jcastro> djsiegel: want to do an openweek topic?
[20:03] <djsiegel> jcastro: sure
[20:03] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
[20:03] <jcastro> pick a slot and roll with it!
[20:03] <jcastro> tedg: see how cooperative djsiegel is? He embraces working with the community
[20:04] <tedg> jcastro: I'm not into your and djsiegel's man-love fest ;)
[20:04] <djsiegel> albeit begrudgingly
[20:05] <jcastro> someday I'll get you gould! *shakes fist*
[21:17] <djsiegel> mac_v DanRabbit1, I have to agree that the antenna symbol in the nm-applet should go away... :)
[21:18] <djsiegel> not now, of course
[21:18] <mac_v> djsiegel: why so?
[21:19] <djsiegel> because it's not a meaningful symbol to most people
[21:19] <mac_v> djsiegel: the fedora guys have had a look at the icons and they have been saying its the way to go
[21:19] <mac_v> djsiegel: the same icon is used in cell phones too ;)
[21:19] <djsiegel> mac_v: Please don't say "the fedora guys said" when we are talking about Ubuntu's default icons
[21:19] <djsiegel> :)
[21:20] <djsiegel> each indicator should be a basic shape with some detail
[21:20] <djsiegel> a cohesive whole
[21:20] <mac_v> djsiegel: well  , i didnt actually talk to the fedora guys , but the asac was telling me this ;)
[21:20] <mac_v> but asac*
[21:20] <djsiegel> this little symbol off to the side feels like a piece has broken off
[21:21] <djsiegel> if we needed that symbol for some reason, I would put it in the middle of the signal bars, over them
[21:21] <djsiegel> (as-is, that would not work, but you get the idea)
[21:21] <Laney> how can I start notify-osd in debug mode?
[21:46] <Laney> nm
[21:55] <DBO> DanRabbit1, you here?
[22:31] <lamalex> djsiegel: what are the nicks of your collegues who can give me some design review help? Do they come in here ever?
[22:33] <djsiegel> lamalex: chaotic, ivanka, mpt, mt, kwwii, djsiegel
[22:33] <lamalex> djsiegel: thanks :)
[22:33] <djsiegel> lamalex: np


[02:08] <zul> BenC: thanks for 2.6.27
[02:22] <juanpaul> hello, i'm having trouble to compile kernel on ubuntu. I've downloaded the kernel source via git, but, where i can download the 'linux-ubuntu-modules-<version>' via git?
[02:29] <juanpaul> no one?
[02:45] <juanpaul> solved: download git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-hardy-lum.git or apt-get source linux-ubuntu-modules-<version>
[03:25] <hyperair_> the iwl4965 driver in linux-backports-modules-2.6.24-21-generic causes a kernel panic when rmmod-ing. so i can't hibernate, suspend, or shutdown without a kernel panic.
[03:25] <hyperair_> anyone notice that?
[06:41] <pjwaffle> Hi!
[06:45] <pjwaffle> I want to compile latest (trunk) kernels for ubuntu... Would this be useful for ubuntu?
[14:30] <Ng> what's the best way to bring bugs in a -proposed kernel to the kernel team's attention?
[14:30] <Ng> I don't want to just start subscribing people randomly ;)
[14:30] <Ng> (wrt bug 260664 - reproduced on a thinkpad X41)
[16:10] <BenC> Ng: Best way is probably kernel-team@ or ogasawara
[16:12] <mo0n_sniper> so will it be 2.6.26 or 2.6.27?
[16:23] <mo0n_sniper> that's good....I hope
[16:39] <Iulian> Yay!
[16:44] <ilmari> it means the wifi on the asus eee 701 will work out of the box
[17:59] <Ng> BenC: ok thanks
[19:30] <leleobhz> compiling kernel 2.6.26 on hardy...
[19:30] <leleobhz> II: Checking for changes to ABI... HASH : reserve_ibft_region                      : 0xd5bca5ec => 0x2d09b21a HASH : dump_stack                               : 0xb4e32191 => 0x6b2dc060
[19:30] <leleobhz> EE: 2 symbols changed hash and weren't ignored
[19:30] <leleobhz> what can be?
[21:39] <ogasawara> Ng: wrt bug 260664 - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2008-August/002995.html
[21:39] <ogasawara> Ng: I wasn't sure if you are subscribed to the ml
[21:50] <pwnguin> ogasawara: is something like this too late for intrepid? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/215604
[22:50] <leleobhz> someone can explain to me how ABI works with kernel?
[22:52] <leleobhz> II: Checking modules for generic...previous or current modules file missing!
[22:52] <leleobhz> make: ** [module-check-generic] Erro 1
[22:52] <leleobhz> why this occour?


[00:08] <sloshy> im running 18.04 and when i try to copy a menu entry to the desktop it makes a link instead
[00:09] <sloshy> even though i choose "copy" in the context menu
[00:09] <valorie> copy a menu item to the desktop?
[00:09] <valorie> unsure what you are referring to
[00:09] <valorie> which menu?
[00:11] <valorie> sloshy: ^^
[00:14] <sloshy> the main menu
[00:14] <sloshy> the start menu
[00:15] <sloshy> in like every other version of plasma i could copy a menu item and it would create a copy of the .desktop file in the desktop folder
[00:15] <sloshy> but now it only creates a link
[00:15] <sloshy> even if i choose copy
[00:15] <sloshy> i think its a bug
[00:15] <sloshy> this is 5.12.6
[00:16] <valorie> well, I'm in 18.10 and it's fixed
[00:16] <valorie> I just copied to desktop Kate
[00:17] <valorie> and I get a nice little icon and label
[00:17] <valorie> click and it opens Kate
[00:18] <valorie> I have plasma 5.14.4
[00:18] <sloshy> yeah it worked in 18.10 but i went back to 18.04 because i was having other issues
[00:18] <sloshy> and i prefer to stick with lts releases anyway
[00:18] <valorie> sure
[00:19] <valorie> that should be an LTS of plasma as well
[00:19] <sloshy> yeah
[00:19] <valorie> I never put anything on the desktop
[00:19] <valorie> just pin to the panel
[00:20] <sloshy> yeah if i copy the menu entry to desktop, it creates a broken symlink to ../insertnamehere.desktop
[00:20] <sloshy> weird
[00:20] <valorie> but you can file a bug at bugs.kde.org on your version of plasma
[00:21] <valorie> and hopefully they will fix by next dot release
[00:21] <valorie> because you do get updates in those
[00:23] <sloshy> what part of kde would this be
[00:23] <sloshy> just plasma-desktop?
[00:23] <valorie> yes
[00:23] <sloshy> oh, probably not
[00:23] <valorie> ?
[00:23] <sloshy> idk if it will be fixed in lts
[00:23] <valorie> if you don't file a bug report, probably not
[00:24] <valorie> if you do, maybe
[00:24] <valorie> sounds like a junior job for some beginner
[00:24] <valorie> broken links shouldn't be hard to fix
[00:24]  * valorie is no coder
[00:26] <valorie> it's an LTS of plasma so....
[00:26] <valorie> that's why we chose it for the LTS
[00:28] <valorie> <---- laundry
[00:28] <valorie> bbl
[00:44] <ccb0x45> hey, I would really like to try wayland plasma on kubuntu, but when I try to start it, it just goes to a black screen
[00:44] <ccb0x45> any way to tell whats wrong?
[00:44] <ccb0x45> I install plasma-workspace-wayland and click the option in lightdm.... though it doesn't say Plasma(Wayland) it just says Plasma
[00:45] <ccb0x45> using AMD drivers
[00:45] <valorie> lightdm?
[00:45] <valorie> we use sddm
[00:46] <valorie> I have nvidia, so not gonna test
[00:46] <valorie> ccb0x45: what version of kubuntu?
[00:46] <ccb0x45> yea I have lightdm, I had switch that a while back
[00:46] <ccb0x45> but the dm shouldn't matter right?
[00:46] <valorie> no clue, honestly
[00:47] <valorie> since I've been unable to test
[00:47] <valorie> thanks, nvidia
[00:47] <valorie> although I hear that they are working with us again
[01:25] <[Relic]> is the color selector fixed in 18.10?
[02:05] <valorie> [Relic]: was it broken?
[02:05]  * valorie never used the color selector
[02:16] <[Relic]> it would only fill the first position, so you had to "add" the color twice to get it to go to the next spot or every time you came back to it it was the last color you added only
[02:17] <[Relic]> of course saving a color theme twice and have it be overwritten by something else was much more annoying, especially since the color picker doesn't save the colors properly
 my cardreader is shown in kde partition manager.but its not getting auto mount.can anyone guide me for the same????? pls
[07:06] <fareast> how can i scale the display lower than 1
[07:07] <fareast> I am on 1366x768 I want to make some ui element lower so i have more screen real estate, similar to like a virtual resolution feature.
[08:36] <eeos> hi everybody! Since the last update of the gdal library I cannot install qgis anymore ....
[08:37] <acheronuk> eeos: what release is this? and are the packages from the main archive or a ppa?
 is there a way to see "transfer rate of copying or moving files" in plasma or dolphine???
[09:25] <diogenes_> safeer_pasha, it should be in the notification area in the panel
[12:59] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:04] <_13LACK_> BluesKaj: Hi!
[13:04] <BluesKaj> hi _13LACK_
[22:59] <jubo2> y0 ... I put a Kubuntu 18.04.1 Kubuntu USB stick onto a new PC
[22:59] <jubo2> it gives alternatives to 1. book Kubunut 2. OEM install and 3. check disk
[23:00] <jubo2> If I select "check disk" it checks the USB and reports that "Check finished: errors found in 1 files!", but does not give any possibility to see which file it thinks is corrupt
[23:01] <jubo2> I did redownload the .iso file and reburn it to the stick, but I still get the same error when I check the disk
[23:01] <jubo2> What is going on?
[23:11] <valorie> "Book" Kubuntu?
[23:12] <valorie> it should allow you to run a live session or install
[23:12] <valorie> OEM install is always an option although I wouldn't advise it unless you want to do bulk installs
[23:12] <valorie> no clue about check disk
[23:52] <Dragnslcr> jubo2- run md5 or sha checksum on the .iso file, make sure it matches the list from the Ubuntu website
[23:54] <Dragnslcr> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/18.04.1/release/ has checksum files for md5, sha1, and sha256
[23:58] <valorie> !md5


[00:34] <i915> well the one i am using is using i915 for it kernel driver
[00:35] <i915> so ya my special case it is
[00:36] <i915> also my cases if probably no ware near as general as others have it
[05:54] <i915> weird question when compiling a module the make file uses path /lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/build which points to /usr/src/linux-headers-3.13.0-32/ looking to the Makefile you see lines like this  obj-$(CONFIG_VGA_ARB)  += vgaarb.o
[05:54] <i915> obj-$(CONFIG_VGA_SWITCHEROO) += vga_switcheroo.o
[05:55] <i915> I get what those make files are doing just including object files.... but where are these object files cann't find them anywhere so i am thinking they are zipped up in .a file or something
[05:57] <i915> The kernel headers are not worth anything without the object files to link against... i do see alot of .ko files under the /lib/module/... but those are for the already built modules that can be insmod
[06:02] <mjg59> i915: The .o files aren't shipped, because they're just intermediates between the .c and the .ko files
[06:03] <mjg59> The headers give you the information you need to build modules from source
[06:03] <i915> so why do the Makefiles have them in there or is that just left behind makefiles for the kernel itselfs code
[06:04] <i915> Yes but the headers need to be associated with some type of kernel level library to build the modules that the header file uses?
[06:07] <mjg59> Those are the makefiles from the kernel, yes
[06:07] <i915> or another words what are these o files for. Because if the modules are just using the .ko files that see and the top level makefiles for target modules searches the .ko file directory then what was the .o files
[06:07] <mjg59> There is no kernel level library
[06:08] <mjg59> The .o files are generated from building the .c files. A single .ko may include several .o files.
[06:08] <mjg59> They're just an intermediate during the build process
[06:09] <i915> yes but for building just modules you could remove all those makefiles with .o and you should still beable to build your LKM
[06:09] <mjg59> Sure, but ensuring that you remove those makefiles while not removing any that are required for the build process isn't really worth it
[06:12] <i915> LKM from what i am gathering is just using the .ko files in the /lib/modules/3.13.0-32-generic/kernel/ subdirectories
[06:12] <mjg59> Yes
[06:16] <i915> well then one could archive .ko into one big allmodverion3.6.2.a then take your module header files and integrate it with user land functions i would imagine as well
[06:19] <mjg59> No
[06:19] <i915> unless the insertion insmod the output would fail or the structure of the LKM
[06:19] <mjg59> Kernel code can't be executed in useland
[06:20] <mjg59> It calls into functions that only exist in the kernel itself
[06:20] <mjg59> And which can't be reimplemented in userspace
[06:20] <i915> yes so when insmod tries to install the LKM even if it was to compile with user land header/library functions it would fail to install into the kernel level
[06:21] <i915> because the user land libraries wouldn't work with kernel LKM
[06:22] <i915> i am guessing thats the reason but i see no reason why a LKM cann't load a .so or a kernel level  program call a user land library  is there no load library  that it can uses
[06:24] <i915> Maybe it has to do with the way the LKM and its resources are loaded into memory that it cann't access user land libraries but to me it seems the kernel should have a method to call any function ,process, or program in memory... hell it can get a task or runqueue to access any program resources
[06:26] <i915> So i am still left wondering what the real reason is why LKM or any kernel level program cann't get access or uses userland libraries or functions... in my eyes the kernel has complete control of memory and thus all it needs to do is locate the function in it... it also has complete control of the process so there you go you should beable to call upon anything in memory
[06:28] <i915> Maybe because the userland users a loader program for the .so and so since its lower then the loader program it would need to go thru the loader first to dynamically load the userland libraries thats my only guess
[06:32] <i915> But if the libraries where user libraries where specifically loaded for the LKM start up then you should also thru LKM or kernel functions beable to access the loaded library in memory by passing the loader
[06:32] <i915> bypassing
[06:33] <i915> and thus being able to call upon userland libraries from kernel mode
[06:34] <i915> Of course the only problem would be the mapping of the .so file functions to proper address maybe this part would actually take a page allocated , many other things that essentially would be just creating a loader at the kernel level for user land libraries
[06:36] <i915> Also the .got .plt ,...etc parts of the .elf for userland would have to be workable so you would need to somehow port a ld.so or some mechanism for that...
[06:36] <i915> this is probably the issue to
[06:44] <i915> maybe like the __jump_table section cann't be easilly converted to the got plt
[14:38] <i915> curious i was think again about LKM and if one statically compiled in user library function to it why would this not work the user land functions would be self contained in the LKM no dependences on .so
[15:24] <apw> if the module includes all of the code no reason any not, but most libraries assume they are running on top of the standard C library and expect to link to those kinds of things
[15:24] <apw> so most userpsace libraries would never find their deps
[15:25] <apw> not that it is clear why you would want to include all this userspace in a kernel module in the first place
[15:38] <ogra_> modprobe gnome
[15:38] <ogra_> ;)
[16:34] <JanC> well, there used to be a kernel module that implemented a http server because supposedly it was slightly faster than userspace http servers
[16:35] <JanC> it was also incredibly bad for security ;)
[16:36] <ogra_> who cares about security anyways .. thats so last century ...
[19:52] <i915> curious i see alot of kworker/u8:1 based stuff in ps -A are these workqueues created by the kernel
[19:58] <i915> or are they tasklets created by the kernel I would imagine tasklets and softirq won't show up in ps -A on workqueues because workqueues are truely the pthreads version of the kernel i imagine
[20:00] <apw> kworker are the kernel contexts for work queuesyes
[20:06] <i915>  kthreadd , ksoftirqd, kworker ,khelper kind wondering what the difference in purpose of these and where these all created by workqueues
[20:07] <arges> https://github.com/0xAX/linux-insides/blob/master/interrupts/interrupts-9.md has some good info about these topics
[20:09] <i915> ksoftirqd looks like it is a queue of interrupts when the interrupts come in to fast to process . But is there a way other then workerqueues to create a kernel process or is workqueues / tasks they way kernel threads are made in general
[20:13] <i915> No forget it apparently i am wrong kthread functions with task_struct is the equivalent of pthreads .When would one uses workqueues over kthreads then ?
[20:23] <i915> ok well i get a way to filter out kernel threads and user threads ps -fHuroot | awk '$3!=2' or ps -fHuroot | awk '$3==2' so i can distinguish between user and kernel threads provided the pid didn't change for your linux you can to or do it by the symlink -->exe in proc dev. Of course now my question is determining what the purpose of these different kernel process are . Next step is /proc/pid for them but not sure yet if it wil
[20:23] <i915> l give me a way to figure out what they are meant for
[20:30] <i915> Hum i am wondering if LKM are part of the kthreads process it looks like some are there but the names are different maybe they are contained with in the kernel threads trying to link the distinction of kthreads with LKM's
[20:36] <i915> so its like kthreadd spawns all kernel threads i.e kworker threads but there is additional ones i still have to look into later tonight to get them all down would be nice to know where the LKM's leave in which on of these kernel threads/process if any.
[20:38] <i915> because the insmod insertion into the kernel so i thought it would be a process/thread but maybe its just a fixed static code block that is hooked with irq hander routines to call the module functions. Or maybe the modules are normally just to set up irq for a callback handler that does the device driving not fully sure of all this yet