[00:05] <rizonz> sarnold: checkout debmirror, much nicer
[00:05] <rizonz> for ubuntu likes
[06:13] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:05] <cpaelzer> rbasak: if you ever wonder, those squid tests are run-once by design
[07:05] <cpaelzer> rbasak: I don't want you to waste the same 30 minutes I just wasted
[07:06] <cpaelzer> rbasak: they end with adding apparmor profiles that won't work for certain aa-tests, a rerun fails until you unload the profile
[07:11] <sarnold> o_O
[07:21] <col88> Hi! im trying to add an entry to /etc/hosts using preseed - any tips?
[07:24] <cpaelzer> col88: you can at least force your own hostname into /etc/hosts with netcfg/hostname https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/example-preseed.txt
[07:24] <cpaelzer> col88: but I guess you want more hosts into /etc/hosts ß
[07:24] <cpaelzer> ?
[07:25] <col88> essentially i need to tell my new hosts that my puppetmaster is identified as IP address xxxx
[07:25] <col88> so resolve the name to a static IP on all machines
[07:26] <cpaelzer> col88: sorry, no idea for normal preseeds, but if in your env cloud-init is an option http://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/examples.html#run-commands-on-first-boot
[07:27] <col88> ah ha thats a good idea
[07:45] <rbasak> cpaelzer: noted, thanks!
[11:01] <cpaelzer> rbasak: it turned out most fixes that I was writing were already in the upstream qa tests
[11:01] <cpaelzer> rbasak: so I pulled the latest version of those
[11:01] <cpaelzer> rbasak: and on top only tweaked to run against localhost
[11:01] <cpaelzer> rbasak: and a bit of setup to have something reasonable available at localhost
[11:02] <cpaelzer> rbasak: my tests on LP are starting soon (building atm), once successful we could push to z.p
[11:02] <cpaelzer> rbasak: although we are in freeze and this is not 100% bug-fix of the package itself
[11:02] <cpaelzer> rbasak: but I think proper testing would still be welcome
[11:03] <cpaelzer> rbasak: before that the tests have to actually pass on LP
[11:03] <cpaelzer> rbasak: to confirm - those tests are pure Ubuntu Delta atm, no need to send to Debian or did you intend to do so once they are working fine?
[11:06] <rbasak> cpaelzer: I intended to send to Debian once they were in reasonable shape, as I didn't think the previous state of them would be acceptable to Debian.
[11:06] <rbasak> cpaelzer: as for the freeze, I think dep8 fixes are absolutely fine.
[11:06] <rbasak> Or any kind of dep8 improvement, not just fixes.
[11:06] <cpaelzer> ok
[11:48] <blackflow> Hello. Need help understanding the bug resolution life cycle. What's the next step for Bug #1673357 ? It's been recommended to the server team, but it'll have to be patched by the maintainers first?
[11:51] <rbasak> blackflow: it's definitely fixed in Zesty in 2.0.33, right?
[11:52] <rbasak> blackflow: in that case see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates and in particular https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
[11:52] <rbasak> blackflow: anybody can do the preparation steps - the only thing you won't be able to is the actual upload, for which you'll need a sponsor.
[11:52] <rbasak> blackflow: the server team will get round to it eventually I hope, but if you'd like to speed up the process, please do as much as you are able.
[11:54] <blackflow> rbasak: I've been maintainer of some packages on FreeBSD (and bugzilla triager) so I'm in general familiar with the whole contribution process. However, I'd need help getting started with Ubuntu contribs. Is there a process/team/mentorship I can rely upon for that?
[11:54] <rbasak> blackflow: I wish we were better on the documentation front. It's mostly out of date :-/
[11:54] <rbasak> blackflow: feel free to ask here, or in #ubuntu-devel
[11:55] <rbasak> There's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess and some other related pages on the wiki but I'm afraid some of it isn't current.
[11:55] <rbasak> In short, post a debdiff to the bug, and subscribe ~ubuntu-sponsors, and it'll be in the sponsorship review queue.
[11:56] <rbasak> blackflow: if there's a specific thing you feel that we're missing in the process to help get new contributors on board, please let us know.
[11:56] <rbasak> We're working on a git-based workflow for contributions, but that's still a work in progress and not quite ready for general use.
[11:56] <rbasak> When it's ready, I'm hoping that we can replace most of the documentation with just "clone from here, push to here, submit a merge proposal here" flow.
[11:57] <rbasak> blackflow: in the meantime, I'd be happy to answer specific questions.
[12:01] <blackflow> rbasak: thanks. :) I don't have any for the moment, and in fact you've given me a pretty sound advice with debdiff.
[13:37] <zul> jamespage: question for you do we really need this patch? https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-dev/ubuntu/+source/keystone/tree/debian/patches/add-version-info.patch
[14:11] <jamespage> zul: :-)
[14:12] <zul> umm..yeah
[14:17] <cpaelzer> rbasak: grr - of course now other tests fail<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:18] <rbasak> :-/
[14:19] <cpaelzer> maybe I updated too much believing in the good of "new" too much
[14:19] <cpaelzer> but hey, http and https worked in LP infra
[14:19] <rbasak> cpaelzer: could it be because a proxy is set by default?
[14:19] <rbasak> Not sure about FTP though.
[14:19] <rbasak> But that sort of thing has been a cause of failures in the past.
[14:20] <rbasak> Causing requests intended for localhost to bounce through some external host that then resolves "localhost" differently, etc.
[14:22] <cpaelzer> rbasak: ah no I think I see the issue
[14:22]  * cpaelzer is touching all kind of wood
[14:25] <eanyx>  Hi, I need to make a cluster with an apps that was not designed to be in cluster. I would like to use keepalive + haproxy for failover. But how to watch for apps failover?
[14:27] <eanyx> I've a problem : I need to have rabbitmq writing from the 2 nodes on the same shared queue
[14:31] <cpaelzer> eanyx: doesn't rabbitmq have heartbeat and clustering as feature ? https://www.rabbitmq.com/reliability.html
[14:32] <cpaelzer> rbasak: that was good to fail actually
[14:33] <cpaelzer> rbasak: it had still some ubuntu.com references which might work for us but not on dbci
[14:33] <cpaelzer> rbasak: and the issue with those tests helped me to uncover
[14:33] <cpaelzer> rbasak: a new revision is building, but it builds oh-so-slowly
[14:33] <rbasak> Ah, great!
[14:33] <cpaelzer> rbasak: I can only trigger tests later on after some family life
[14:33] <rbasak> Sure :)
[14:33] <eanyx> yes, but how to integrate with my apps? I need some failover software to switch my apps from one node to other and then use anoter clustering techno (rabbitmq to switch over)?
[14:34] <cpaelzer> sorry eanyx, I just don't know - crossing fingers for you that somebody else does
[14:35] <eanyx> cpaelzer: are you aware of reentrant software?
[14:38] <cpaelzer> sure, but from reentrant functions via acid on a DB to no-state containers that can be something different for each of 10 people you ask
[17:08] <rizonz> sarnold: ping
[17:23] <sarnold> hey rizonz, how's your mirroring project coming?
[18:01] <cpaelzer> rbasak: https://bileto.ubuntu.com/excuses/2667/zesty.html all good now on squid
[18:02] <cpaelzer> rbasak: I'll do the publish and Debian submit tomorrow
[20:13] <rbasak> cpaelzer: o/ thank you1
[20:13] <rbasak> !
[23:28] <rizonz> is it possible to use metalink files for yuour local mirror ?
[23:30] <drab_> rizonz: did you figure out why your mirror kept getting bigger and bigger?
[23:31] <rizonz> drab_: he thanks for asking, dunno, I really cannot say... debmirror works perfectly
[23:37] <drab_> rizonz: so you were using apt-mirror before?
[23:37] <drab_> I actually need to do something about it because it's really slow and not allowing me to resync things selectively, at least not that I can find out
[23:38] <drab_> so if I have 5 things to mirror I can't just kick one off (unless I temporarily mess with the config file)
[23:40] <rizonz> drab: yap
[23:40] <rizonz> drab: it's damn slow
[23:41] <rizonz> debmirror did the erm, 150G in 1,5H :)
[23:41] <drab> wow, ok
[23:42] <drab> rizonz: the only thing is, debmirror seemed a lot more complicated to setup/maintain compared to apt-mirror, but maybe I just looked at the wrong howto
[23:42] <rizonz> drab: sec, have a doc for you... it's damn easy
[23:44] <rizonz> drab: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Debmirror
[23:47] <drab> rizonz: yeah, hacky :) . compared to adding the lines to mirror to a config file, that is
[23:47] <drab> rizonz: apt-mirror is a lot more consistent with the whole apt setup, configs are even in /etc/apt/
[23:48] <drab> so it's overall a lot more "sensible", but yeah, can't seem to be ablet o get it to work well so will need to ditch it
[23:48] <rizonz> drab: apt-mirror sucks
[23:48] <rizonz> comparing to debmirror
[23:49] <rizonz> drab: I don't think this is hacky
[23:50] <drab> that's fine, we clearly have diff definitions of hacky, not a problem :)
[23:50] <rizonz> drab: if you want a full mirror, just rsync it
[23:50] <rizonz> I do that with fedora as they repo structure it MUCH better
[23:51] <rizonz> *their
[23:51] <drab> that has other problems, no logs, which is also why I don't like backups with plain rsync + hardlinks even tho conceptually it's a good way to go, minus deduplication on large files/vm images
[23:59] <rizonz> drab: no just a good exclide file ;)
[23:59] <rizonz> *exclude


[05:48] <johnlittle> burgwork nope....replying fast at work
[07:14] <poningru> Burgwork: ping
[07:14] <poningru> either that or he is sshing in
[07:15] <poningru> anyway...
[07:15] <poningru> dude I need some help
[07:15] <poningru> we did sfd+post sfd events this week
[07:16] <poningru> but the shipit that I did (40 x86 cds) all got installed/picked up about half way through the events
[07:16] <poningru> so we are planning on doing this once every month from now on
[07:17] <poningru> but on a smaller scale
[07:36] <Madpilot> poningru, Burgundavia is Corey's main contact
[07:36] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: did poningru just try and ping Burgwork?
[07:36] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, he did
[07:36] <Burgundavia> poningru: what do you need?
[07:43] <poningru> Burgundavia: I was wondering how to get a 240 cd shipit request approved
[07:43] <Burgundavia> what do you need it for?
[07:43] <poningru> cause we are thinking of doing a minor sfd even like every month
[07:43] <Burgundavia> right
[07:43] <poningru> we gave away like 40 x86 cds and we know atleast 10 people installed
[07:44] <poningru> because they showed up for our lug
[07:44] <poningru> like that very same day
[07:44] <Burgundavia> to me, handing out a cd requires you show more than passing interest
[07:44] <poningru> right
[07:44] <Burgundavia> I would make/print some little 1/4 page thingys for the random person
[07:44] <poningru> but it wasnt for random people
[07:44] <Burgundavia> if they talk with you more than 30secs or a minute, give them a cd
[07:44] <poningru> it was for people who showed interest
[07:44] <Burgundavia> given that critera, how many cds do you need?
[07:44] <poningru> yeah
[07:45] <poningru> see we plan on doing this atleast once a month
[07:45] <poningru> so we are just stocking up
[07:45] <poningru> cause we ran out of cds half way through our event
[07:46] <poningru> and we dont wanna have to run into that
[07:46] <poningru> this was wasnt just randomly giving it to people,
[07:47] <Burgundavia> ok, I am just a hardass about cds-as-candy, because we truly have to get value for them
[07:48] <Flannel> You don't want to tell them "here, You throw this away"
[07:48] <poningru> this was our criterion: they had heard of linux, they were interested in trying out linux, and if they didnt wanna try it right then and there
[07:48] <poningru> we gave it to them
[07:48] <Burgundavia> ok, excellent
[07:48] <Burgundavia> are you an approved loco team?
[07:49] <poningru> unfortunately no
[07:49] <poningru> Burgundavia: this is my partner in crime
[07:49] <Burgundavia> hey gavinbaker
[07:49] <gavinbaker> in the past we did "cds-and-candy" and didn't get much return (as far as we could know)
[07:50] <gavinbaker> so we haven't been doing that
[07:50] <gavinbaker> in addition to the CDs we've given away, we've done ~8 installs personally in the past week alone
[07:50] <poningru> yeah the 8 we did right then and there
[07:50] <Burgundavia> very cool
[07:51] <Burgundavia> are you in the US?
[07:51] <poningru> yeah gainesville fl
[07:51] <poningru> college town
[07:51] <gavinbaker> if we do mini-sfd (maybe "Free Software Saturday") regularly, we'll come up with ways to follow up with the CDs (e.g. get contact info for each)
[07:51] <gavinbaker> the goal would be to be in the same place, at the same time, regularly, so people knew where to come for help or info
[07:52] <gavinbaker> since many people are intimidated/turned off by irc or forums, and appreciate personal help
[07:52] <poningru> yeah this is the every month thing I was talking about
[07:52] <gavinbaker> additionally, we will probably have 1 more "big" event before the next sfd... so we'll want a lot of cds
[07:52] <Burgundavia> I would email shipit, explain who you are and what you are planning todo
[07:52] <poningru> and the local lug is very much behind it
[07:52] <Burgundavia> explain what you just did to me, etc.
[07:53] <gavinbaker> as well as to have available at LUG meetings for those interested in ubuntu
[07:53] <poningru> Burgundavia: ok... do you know if jono has pull with them?
[07:53] <poningru> cause I am meeting him in orlando
[07:53] <poningru> ...
[07:54] <Burgundavia> yes, jono would be able to help you with that
[07:54] <poningru> ok cool
[07:55] <gavinbaker> ok, tnx for the help Burgundavia!
[07:55] <Burgundavia> no worries
[07:55] <gavinbaker> cheers
[07:55] <poningru> Burgundavia: also the reason we havent become 'official' loco team
[07:55] <Burgundavia> I would to work with somebody on creating a 1/4 page thingy on Ubuntu
[07:56] <poningru> Burgundavia: uh... we have those already dude
[07:56] <Burgundavia> where are they?
[07:57] <poningru> yeah thats the stuff I want bzr to have
[07:57] <poningru> for college
[07:58] <poningru> except I still dont know how to add stuff to bzr
[07:58] <nixternal> bzr push
[07:58] <nixternal> your best friend
[07:58] <nixternal> just remember branch, pull, push, stat, and diff
[07:58] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:58] <Burgundavia> johnlittle: you realize adding that Userful stuff to the UWN puts me in an awful position
[08:00] <Burgundavia> poningru: I work for Userful, hence the issue
[08:00] <poningru> ah ic
[08:02] <Madpilot> poningru, I've got a 6-per-page leaflet thing I designed ages ago for Ubuntu.ca that you can have the files for, if you need a small leaflet to hand out
[08:02] <Burgundavia> somebody needs to do a whirlwind tour through the various marketing content pages on the wiki and consolidate them. We also need to push them into bzr
[08:03] <poningru> bzr is the biggest thing that has to be done imho
[08:03] <poningru> cause then we can just link at it from all the marketing wiki stuff
[08:03] <Burgundavia> we need to link the finished stuff on the actual page, but we can use bzrweb todo that
[08:06] <Burgundavia> hey Bassetts
[08:06] <Burgundavia> thanks for the beginnings of that Beta page
[08:07] <Bassetts> hey, np Corey asked me to get it going
[08:07] <Bassetts> its not much but I did what i could at the time
[08:07] <Burgundavia> Bassetts: check my real name
[08:07] <Bassetts> oh
[08:07] <Madpilot> hehe
[08:07] <Bassetts> heh just realised
[08:07] <elkbuntu> lol
[08:07] <Bassetts> its like 7am here, just got up, had like 3 hours sleep =P
[08:07] <Burgundavia> ouch
[08:08] <elkbuntu> well that was foolish
[08:08] <Burgundavia> I need to sleep soon, as it is 11 here
[08:09] <Bassetts> ill see if i can get anymore done today, tomorrow i have college and the weekend im pretty much free
[08:09] <Burgundavia> ok, that is funny: http://static.flickr.com/82/245666281_04d6abf163_o.png
[08:09] <Madpilot> caffeine>sleep
[08:09] <elkbuntu> ++ Madpilot
[08:09] <Burgundavia> no
[08:10] <Burgundavia> tomorrow should be fun. Guy is getting fired at work first thing
[08:10] <Bassetts> who is the leader/contact for spread ubuntu?
[08:10] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, does guy-who-is-getting-fired know this?
[08:10] <Burgundavia> no, not yet
[08:10] <Burgundavia> Bassetts: jenda
[08:10] <Bassetts> irc name?
[08:11] <Burgundavia> jenda
[08:11] <Bassetts> ok
[08:11] <Bassetts> he on much?
[08:11] <Burgundavia> who is sadly mostly away
[08:11] <Burgundavia> used to be
[08:11] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, nice morning surprise for him, then. "Here, have a coffee, bagel, and a pink slip..."
[08:11] <Bassetts> damn
[08:11] <Bassetts> i am really interested in that project =(
[08:11] <Burgundavia> yes, well he destroyed a very nice day for me
[08:11] <Burgundavia> Bassetts: which aspects about it appealed to you?
[08:11] <Burgundavia> most of the spread Ubuntu project is actually already happening
[08:11] <elkbuntu> Bassetts, there's nothing stopping you from helping revitalise it. jenda should be back soon
[08:12] <Bassetts> the fact it seems to be something i can do
[08:12] <Bassetts> it will help the community
[08:12] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: please, let SU die and lets move to helping the fridge
[08:12] <elkbuntu> yessir
[08:12] <Burgundavia> Bassetts: if you want to help actually spread ubuntu, there are many ways todo that
[08:12] <Madpilot> elkbuntu, phear the wrath of the Burg
[08:12] <Burgundavia> if you want to help other people spread Ubuntu, you have come to the right placed
[08:12] <Bassetts> and i still remember being a clueless noob and think SU could help newbies get help and find out some good places i nthe community
[08:13] <Burgundavia> if you want to talk about people spreading Ubuntu, the fridge is the right place
[08:14] <Bassetts> =)
[08:14] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: now if only my loco team was as rocking as yours was
[08:14] <Bassetts> ive been trying to find someone to give back to ubuntu in a more than average way
[08:14] <Burgundavia> welcome
[08:14] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, i have the advantage of a few waughs ;)
[08:14] <Burgundavia> what grabs you? content creation? helping people at the local level? documentation?
[08:14] <Bassetts> and seeing as I am into web development (all be it pretty inexperienced)
[08:15] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: you locoteam has a high waughttage, as they say
[08:15] <elkbuntu> Bassetts, have you any clue about php?
[08:15] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, yep
[08:15] <Flannel> elkbuntu: I do, if you need something
[08:15] <Bassetts> im not completely confused if i read php source but i cannot write it
[08:15] <Bassetts> its a goal of mine to learn it
[08:16] <Bassetts> my current thing is to master css
[08:16] <Burgundavia> you created pamphlets and the like before?
[08:16] <elkbuntu> Flannel, i dont, jenda does and im behind on doing it for him :(
[08:16] <Flannel> elkbuntu: alright, well, if you need a hand
[08:16] <Bassetts> nope
[08:17] <elkbuntu> Flannel, i'll work something out later
[08:17] <Burgundavia> the best thing I can say to somebody who is starting off is: never assume the only way you can usefully contribute is to code
[08:17] <Flannel> elkbuntu: no hurry
[08:17] <Burgundavia> in fact, Ubuntu is the one of the best distros for non-programmers like myself
[08:17] <Bassetts> well i am pretty much up for helping out wherever i can, if i know i can do it i will, if i think that its a bit hard for me ill give it a go at the risk of learning something but if i get in over my head im not affraid to say so
[08:18] <Bassetts> i already know that Burgundavia =)
[08:18] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, heh. i'd have to class myself in that category. web dev != programming ;)
[08:18] <Burgundavia> I don't even do webdev
[08:18] <Bassetts> i try
[08:18] <Burgundavia> moin is about the most I will touch these says
[08:19] <Bassetts> so what projects are currently being worked on and need help?
[08:19] <Burgundavia> content creation of all kinds always needs help
[08:19] <Burgundavia> printed stuff
[08:19] <Burgundavia> we lack a good cohesive set of fast read brochures/pamphlets to be handed out
[08:20] <Bassetts> poster, leaflets and the sort?
[08:20] <Burgundavia> there are lots of beginnigns of those
[08:20] <Burgundavia> marketing is about providing a consistent message
[08:20] <Madpilot> IMO, content creation is the hard part. Once we have good text & content, we can move it to other media/etc easily...
[08:20] <Burgundavia> we need to create a general theme for a set of content and then create each one
[08:21] <Bassetts> so we basically need a identity so as soon as people see a poster/leaflet they know straight away that its to do with ubuntu?
[08:21] <Burgundavia> that is already pretty easy
[08:21] <Burgundavia> hmm, why did my work computer die...
[08:22] <Bassetts> it needed sleep
[08:22] <Burgundavia> we have a palette (although it needs updating) and some existing work
[08:23] <Bassetts> well ill see what i could do, although the nearest thing i have done is write a pretty much standard letter in OOo Writer
[08:23] <Burgundavia> the red, yellow and ornage we use are the best colours of attracting attention
[08:23] <Burgundavia> the tan we use is a nice background colour
[08:23] <Madpilot> Bassetts, send the text of that to the Marketing mailing list, someone can make it prettier in Scribus, Inkscape or something.
[08:24] <Madpilot> these days I mostly seem to be doing make-it-prettier stuff ;)
[08:24] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: have you seen 0.44 and its PDF generation stuff? it is downright good
[08:24] <Bassetts> Madpilot, i didnt mean a ubuntu related letter, just a standard letter =P
[08:24] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, haven't, but I've been meaning to grab the Ubuntu autopackage
[08:24] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: making it prettier is the last and most important step
[08:24] <Madpilot> of 0.44, that is
[08:24] <Burgundavia> steer clear of autopackage
[08:25] <Burgundavia> in there lies a giant nightmare of fun
[08:25] <Bassetts> all the previous stuff is on DIYMarketing right?
[08:25] <Madpilot> Bassetts, if you can write clearly, we need you. Even better, if you've got any skill at all at copyediting, we need you badly!
[08:25] <Burgundavia> mostly
[08:25] <Bassetts> copyediting?
[08:25] <Madpilot> Bassetts, editing & proofreading stuff other people have written
[08:26] <Burgundavia> one easy task you could do initially would be to trawl the wiki for other marketing content and then put it all on DIYMarketing and then redirect those pages to DIY
[08:26] <Bassetts> i passed english in high school... but i cant really write that well with this sort of stuff
[08:26] <Bassetts> im better at proofreading
[08:33] <Bassetts> they now include background music to enlighten our day?
[08:33] <Burgundavia> background music?
[09:18] <Bassetts> where can i get the ubuntu font?
[09:19] <Bassetts> its ttf-ubuntu-title right?
[09:23] <Burgundavia> Bassetts: yep, but please shy away from using for anything other than the actual logo
[09:24] <Bassetts> i was just writing ubuntu in the right text =)
[09:31] <Burgundavia> the logo is already out there
[10:03] <Burgundavia> night all
[04:47] <MitchM__> hey menza; got the stickers =)
[04:47] <MitchM__> look great.
[04:47] <MenZa> MitchM__: sweet :9
[04:47] <MitchM__> thanks a bunch for the _extras_
[04:47] <MitchM__> =)... still need to paypal jenda for the stuff.
[04:48] <MenZa> yup
[04:52] <MenZa> MitchM__: glad you like them :)
[04:53] <MitchM__> oh yes; very impressive.
[04:53] <MitchM__> i'm worried I may not have any to hand out if I keep sticking them to random things...
[04:53] <MitchM__> (j/k) =)
[05:07] <popey> i have started leaving Ubuntu CDs in the free newspaper which is on the counter in local restaurants
[05:07] <elkbuntu> well.. i finally got conned into putting up a hackergotchi...
[05:10] <MenZa> popey: :D
[05:10] <MenZa> If I still had my newspaper route I would've ordered one for each household and delivered it with the paper ;D
[05:11] <elkbuntu> MenZa, look here.. the ugliest hackergotchi ever --> https://launchpad.net/people/melissa
[05:13] <MenZa> A... hackergotchi?
[05:13] <elkbuntu> yeah.. little mugshots you put on launchpad :)
[05:13] <elkbuntu> aaaaaand.. --> * NickServ set your hostname to "ubuntu/member/elkbuntu"
[05:13] <elkbuntu> :D
[05:13] <elkbuntu> i need to figure how to make it show up though
[05:14] <willvdl> elkbuntu, are you still involved with user surveys?
[05:15] <elkbuntu> willvdl, yes.. the surveys are still running
[05:15] <willvdl> I'm wanting to use the basic idea to create a framework in generating use cases for edubuntu
[05:16] <willvdl> is there a public form?
[05:18] <elkbuntu> willvdl, not yet, and probably will not be in the immediate future, there will be eventually though
[05:20] <MenZa> elkbuntu: your face scares me.
[05:20] <MenZa> :D
[05:20] <elkbuntu> woohoo!
[05:21] <elkbuntu> you're not as fugly as me, so you might as well :)
[05:21] <MenZa> XD
[05:21] <MenZa> You're not uglt :SD
[05:21] <MenZa> ugly :D*
[05:21] <MenZa> (wow that was messed up typing)
[05:21] <willvdl> elkbuntu, is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SurveyQuestionIdeas the basic idea?
[05:22] <willvdl> or should I refer to something else?
[05:22] <elkbuntu> willvdl, that was the brainstorming stage for the questions, mainly
[05:22] <elkbuntu> willvdl, im not entirely sure what you are asking for
[05:23] <willvdl> basically for a [final]  survey form. The latest of what is developed :)
[05:24] <elkbuntu> will it's a form that sends into an sql db, and i'd really rather avoid releasing that code until oct 16th at least for security reasons
[05:24] <elkbuntu> i will however, at the request of someone else, be creating an engine to generate similarly extensive surveys
[05:25] <elkbuntu> but this will take time
[05:25] <willvdl> okie. just really looking for the list of questions
[05:25] <elkbuntu> ah.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/UbuntuSurveys
[05:26] <elkbuntu> that what you were after?
[05:26] <willvdl> ah. thanks.
[05:26] <willvdl> Not sure why I didn't find that :|
[05:26] <elkbuntu> because the wiki doesnt have human logic
[05:27] <elkbuntu> although it is at the top of the wiki page you did find ;)
[05:27] <willvdl> neither do I apparently. The link was in bold, blue and at the top of the page...
[05:27] <elkbuntu> lol
[05:28] <elkbuntu> hehe, to err is human
[05:29] <willvdl> to err in a nice way is humane
[05:33] <MenZa> elkbuntu: whee
[05:33] <MenZa> hackergotchi :D
[05:34] <MenZa> very emo though xD
[05:35] <MenZa> XD
[05:35] <MenZa> I'm not completely done
[05:35] <elkbuntu> heh
[05:35] <MenZa> Putting finishing touches to it now
[05:35] <MenZa> My hair is rather pointy in this thing.
[05:36] <MenZa> And it looks silly if I remove it completely
[05:36] <elkbuntu> hehe
[05:37] <MenZa> elkbuntu: http://menza.org/upload/hackergotchi.png
[05:37] <MenZa> 'twas the best pic I could find
[05:37] <elkbuntu> it's definately a different look to most of the others
[05:38] <MenZa> XD
[05:38] <MenZa> It's all I have ;\
[05:38] <MenZa> "Ooo, an eclipse"
[05:38] <elkbuntu> yeah hehhe
[09:26] <adamant1988> hello all
[09:26] <Bassetts> hey
[09:27] <adamant1988> how's everyone?
[09:27] <adamant1988> and nixternal
[09:29] <nixternal> what
[09:30] <adamant1988> nothing, I <3 you... grumpy
[09:32] <nixternal> haha
[09:33] <adamant1988> After Saturday I won't be able to use Linux for a while -_-
[09:45] <nixternal> why?
[09:45] <nixternal> you cutting your eyes out?
[09:45] <nixternal> and your ears off?
[09:45] <nixternal> removing your limbs?
[09:45] <nixternal> thats about all that "accessibility" covers, so ;)
[09:48] <mindspin> going to jail for some months?
[09:49] <lophyte> bwahaha.. hey guys, take a look at this
[09:49] <lophyte> http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/lophyte/lmfao.png
[09:51] <adamant1988> nixternal: had to buy a new computer fast, and I just happened to pick the most linux incompatible piece of hardware in the store.
[09:52] <nixternal> lophyte: please tell me you didn't take that screenshot
[09:52] <lophyte> hehe, actually I did
[09:53] <lophyte> no, I don't run Vista :P
[09:54] <adamant1988> funny
[09:55] <lophyte> I couldn't stop laughing when I saw it
[10:25] <MitchM__> argh; 'tis funny.
[10:26] <lophyte> a friend of mine tried to defend it.. that was horrible
[10:41] <MitchM__> lol.
[10:41] <lophyte> "that's not funny.. IE7 blocks automatic downloads.. that's a good thing"
[10:57] <Bassetts> johnlittle, you around?


[08:33] <bthomas> moo-ning :-)
[09:07] <Chipaca> mo'in
[09:12] <bthomas> Chipaca: would a 1:1 around 12:30 be fine with you . If so I can add it to your calendar ?
[09:21] <Chipaca> bthomas: go for it
[09:21] <bthomas> thanks
[09:36] <Chipaca> my day just got 78% better \o/ (a 1h meeting was canceled)
[09:53] <bthomas> :-)
[10:36] <facubatista> ¡Muy buenos días a todos!
[10:36] <bthomas> नमस्ते facubatista
[10:37] <facubatista> hola bthomas
[10:47] <mup> PR operator#435 closed: Only set sys.breakpointhook in Framework.__init__ if env is set <Created by chipaca> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/435>
[10:48] <Chipaca> facubatista: ｇｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｄ  ｍｏｒｎｉｎｇ！
[10:49] <Chipaca> facubatista: should i merge my suggestions into #432 and land it?
[10:49] <mup> PR #432: More docstrings (and some improved a little) <Created by facundobatista> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/432>
[10:49] <facubatista> Chipaca, please
[10:49] <facubatista> Chipaca, I'll work on other docstrings, unless you're on them
[10:50] <Chipaca> facubatista: i'm on the fix for #421
[10:50] <mup> Issue #421: breakpoint handlers unconditionally installed on framework initialization <Created by stub42> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/421>
[10:52] <facubatista> ack
[10:53] <facubatista> facubatista, let me know when you landed 432, thanks
[11:58] <mup> PR operator#432 closed: More docstrings (and some improved a little) <Created by facundobatista> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/432>
[11:58] <Chipaca> facubatista: ^
[11:58] <Chipaca> cheated a little because windows was taking ages
[12:11] <facubatista> Chipaca, in what sense you cheated?
[12:11] <Chipaca> facubatista: ☐ Use your administrator privileges to merge this pull request.
[12:12] <facubatista> Chipaca, ah, it's fine
[12:12] <Chipaca> yup
[12:31]  * bthomas pings Chipaca
[12:31] <Chipaca> whoops
[12:31] <Chipaca> 1 sec
[12:58]  * bthomas thanks Chipaca
[12:58] <Chipaca> de nada 🙂
[13:05] <facubatista> Chipaca, bueno, 424 should be green, and I +1ed 436
[13:05] <facubatista> that's all you should need for today from my side in the OF
[13:05] <facubatista> I'll start the charmcraft release process in 5' or so
[13:11] <Chipaca> facubatista: there'll be one more for OF, i'll ping you
[13:11] <Chipaca> bthomas: please review #436 if you can
[13:11] <mup> PR #436: Give ObjectEvents a useful __repr__ <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/436>
[13:12] <bthomas> will do
[13:19] <facubatista> Chipaca, sure
[14:10] <mthaddon> bthomas: I've created a few PRs against the prometheus operator, fwiw - https://github.com/canonical/prometheus-operator/pulls
[14:10] <bthomas>  mthaddon: will review thank you
[14:10] <mthaddon> thx - no hurry obviously
[14:13]  * Chipaca pokes travis
[14:16] <justinclark> Good morning o/
[14:17] <facubatista> hola justinclark
[14:24] <justinclark> bthomas - just reviewed the Prometheus PRs and they should be good to merge.
[14:24] <bthomas> :-) I was just going to request that from you.
[14:24] <bthomas> will merge now
[14:24] <bthomas> thanks
[14:25] <bthomas> I liked the use of assertLogs I think I am going to stick with them in the future
[14:33] <justinclark> Agreed ^ I'm going to refactor some of the Grafana tests to use it
[14:35] <JoseMasson> good morning justinclark
[14:36] <bthomas> monin JoseMasson
[14:36] <bthomas> :-)
[14:36] <JoseMasson> :-)
[14:37] <justinclark> I enjoy the friendliness in the morning over here on IRC
[14:37]  * bthomas wonders why justinclark does not enjoy friendliness at 2AM EST
[14:38]  * bthomas takes a coffee break
[14:40]  * justinclark wishes he enjoyed waking up at 2AM but, alas, does not for some strange reason
[14:46]  * bthomas back
[15:16]  * facubatista lunches while snap remote building works
[15:45] <mup> Issue operator#438 closed: defered events never re-emitted when using juju storage backend <Created by chipaca> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/438>
[15:45] <mup> PR operator#439 closed: Make JujuStorage.notices respect the api :-) <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/439>
[15:46] <Chipaca> facubatista: does the charmcraft snap include ops? and if so, wouldn't it make sense to release it after we release ops?
[16:01]  * Chipaca wonders if travis is somehow immunte to being stared at
[16:01] <Chipaca> immune*
[16:11] <facubatista> Chipaca, oh, maybe
[16:15] <facubatista> Chipaca, so, I aborted the remote build, I will re-trigger it when you're done
[16:16] <Chipaca> facubatista: travis is taking very long today
[16:16] <Chipaca> facubatista: i've got one more pr to push (the rework of the breakpoint init) but i'll push it once the current one is in to minimise builds
[16:16] <Chipaca> it's straightforward, but i'm not sure it'll make it in before my EOD
[16:17] <facubatista> Chipaca, we can release tomorrow
[16:18] <Chipaca> that's what _she_ said!
[16:18] <Chipaca> (my dog)
[17:22] <justinclark> Before I spend too many brain cycles rearranging charm logic, is there some way in OF to get the current application ingress-address without having a peer relation?
[17:26] <justinclark> I believe it's exposed by Juju (it's also an environmental variable in the application pod) but I haven't been able to figure out how to get it through the charm.
[17:32] <Chipaca> justinclark: would that be part of the juju-info implicit peer relation?
[17:36] <bthomas> justinclark: hopefully jam Chipaca or facubatista would be able to help you with your Q. I would be interested to know too. What I was trying to say was this : updating of minimum master nodes is only done in response to a peer relation joined event. Hence by the time you need to update it you may already have a relation to get the ingress address from. Besides operator framework does allow you to check if you have a relation or not and
[17:36] <bthomas> also the number of units in the relation. This leads me to believe it may be possible to find an implementation that works even if at present there is no way to get the ingress address without a realtion. Having said so I may in all possiblity be wrong and would gladly stand corrected, if so.
[17:42] <justinclark> Chipaca, I will look into juju-info. Is this still how it is used in OF? https://github.com/juju-solutions/interface-juju-info
[17:42] <Chipaca> justinclark: maybe https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/395 is a better place to start?
[17:43] <justinclark> Thank you Chipaca
[18:03] <justinclark> bthomas, I think you're right - we can do this without needing ingress-address.
[18:04] <justinclark> I still do want to make sure we have a good solution if there's ever a case where we need to set dynamic settings before a peer joins. But I think this can wait.
[18:19]  * bthomas is craving a five guys veggie burger and fries
[18:19]  * bthomas goes
[19:19] <dstathis> I am having an issue with the test framework
[19:21] <dstathis> never mind the issue is not what I thought it was
[19:52] <dstathis> Okay so I am still having an issue
[19:53] <dstathis> update_relation_data does not seem to be doing its job
[19:53] <dstathis> (or I don't understand it)
[19:54] <dstathis> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7CGKZGmTBc/
[19:54] <dstathis> I am making that call and seeing
[19:55] <dstathis> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/CYzTXVpxCW/
[19:56] <dstathis> lol I see the bug. - not _
[19:56] <dstathis> okay new issue
[19:57] <dstathis> the charm reads both the unit and app relation data on relation_changed
[19:57] <dstathis> but I can only set one of those at once
[19:58] <dstathis> so whichever I set first, I will get a failure saying the other wasn't set
[19:59] <dstathis> solved that too
[20:09] <mup> Issue operator#416 closed: Introspection for events <Created by balbirthomas> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/416>
[20:09] <mup> PR operator#436 closed: Give ObjectEvents a useful __repr__ <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/436>
[20:14] <mup> PR operator#440 opened: Set sys.breakpointhook in main instead of Framework.__init__ <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/440>
[20:15] <Chipaca> facubatista: ^ 440 if you're still here
[21:26] <facubatista> dstathis, that was fun :)
[21:27] <facubatista> Chipaca, will review


 http://wsvn.com/news/us-world/can-you-hear-me-dont-answer-that-question-on-the-phone/
 Fear mongering
 I just skimmed through it
 I haven't gone for several months.  Anyone care to join me?
 I'll be there
 I go to all the hack Miami meetings.
 And no Ubuntu Hours
 How funny


[02:45] <Chat8379> s
[02:46] <Chat8379> hi
[04:55] <RedSingularity> Ok good.  Yes, the user has the xswat ppa installed so I am not surprised.  Could you give me the dependency tree if possible?  Here is the bug link again.  bug 797673
[04:55] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 797673 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "upgrade from Ubuntu 10.10 to 11.0.4 64bit is halted (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797673
[04:55] <RedSingularity> jibel_: ^
[11:04] <evfool> ping mvo
[11:30] <mvo> hey evfool
[11:31] <evfool> mvo: could you please check bug 410310's last comment, Manfred Hampl does have a good point there
[11:31] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 410310 in update-manager (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "update-manager inconsistent with download size (affects: 10) (dups: 3) (heat: 76)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410310
[11:32] <mvo> thanks, let me check it out
[11:43] <mvo> evfool: indeed, he raises two good points
[11:43] <mvo> evfool: I think we need to change humanize_size to comply with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy
[11:44] <mvo> evfool: plus getting the decimal point thing from the locale
[11:44] <evfool> mvo: then also apt strutl has to be changed, as the factor is 1000.0 there
[11:45] <mvo> 1000.0 should be ok according to the unit policy 1kB = 1.000 bytes
[11:46] <evfool> mvo: right, sorry for that... couldn't we use then apt's strutl function in u-m, as u-m already depends on apt (AFAIK)
[11:47] <evfool> mvo: to avoid duplicating the code/writing the same thing in python ?
[11:47] <mvo> yeah, thats fine, if its doing the right thing, absolutely. loale.format(group=True) is the way to go with the locale
[11:48] <mvo> evfool: I haven't check if apt does the grouping as well, but I guess its not that important as the numbers are usually quite small
[11:48] <mvo> evfool: I'm all for using apt if it does all we need :)
[11:49] <evfool> mvo: thanks, I'll take a look, see what I can do about that, also assigning this one to me
[11:49] <mvo> great, thanks! let me know when its ready and I will merge or if you are getting stuck :)
[13:07] <Laibsch> Can somebody running multihead setup in oneiric please test whether bug 379382 is still an issue? If not, I'd like to get the SRU ball rolling.
[13:07] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 379382 in gnome-utils (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "gnome-screenshot (Alt-Printscreen) black/blanks out top of windows in multi monitor xinerama (affects: 16) (heat: 74)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/379382
[14:55] <Ursinha> pedro_: hola :)
[14:55] <Ursinha> pedro_: I've created this branch in launchpad: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-defect-analysts/+junk/reports-trunk
[14:55] <Ursinha> pedro_: you can put your scripts there, than I can put mine
[14:55] <Ursinha> we can work together, together is nice :)
[14:58] <pedro_> Ursinha, bom dia, sure i'll propose a branch, thanks for creating it :-)
[14:59] <Ursinha> pedro_: buenos dias :) don't bother proposing a merge, I'll make that branch owned by the defect-analysts team and you'll have access to that
[14:59] <Ursinha> just put your scripts there and let's call it the 0 point :)
[15:04]  * hggdh is curious about the closed cycle above
[15:24] <bdmurray> pedro_: do you remember some bug about system users showing up in the display manager user's list?  I just saw Samba guest account.
[15:25] <pedro_> Ursinha, i've added some code to the branch
[15:25] <Ursinha> pedro_: cool :)
[15:26] <Ursinha> I'll take a look soon
[15:26] <pedro_> bdmurray, i don't recall something like that , will do some search and let you know
[15:27] <bdmurray> bug 696038
[15:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 696038 in gdm (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "system user appears in login list of users (affects: 4) (heat: 24)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/696038
[15:28] <pedro_> bdmurray, is the same happening with ligthdm?
[15:29] <bdmurray> pedro_: don't know I'm using gdm at the moment
[15:29] <pedro_> well if its still there with gdm that'd be nice to fix too
[15:29] <pedro_> could you please open a bug?
[15:30] <pedro_> im sure upstream would be interesting on it
[15:34] <bdmurray> bug 814139
[15:34] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 814139 in gdm (Ubuntu) "samba guest user appears in list of users (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814139
[15:34] <pedro_> thanks
[15:34] <bdmurray> oh I didn't mention that other bug
[15:35] <pedro_> Folks remember that today is the Banshee bug day : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20110721
[15:35] <pedro_> there's still a lot of bugs waiting to be squashed
[15:37] <bdmurray> pedro_: update the topic?
[15:37] <pedro_> oh right
[15:37] <pedro_> i'll put at the organizing instructions so we don't forget
[17:08] <charlie-tca> Is this really going to help or make it harder to find the bugs that really need work?
[17:08] <charlie-tca> http://blog.launchpad.net/bug-tracking/automatic-confirmation
[17:10] <brendand_> hmm, let's see
[17:10] <greg-g> charlie-tca: hopefully easier. It should allow those who only want to help triage bugs that have been confirmed see all bugs that have actually been confirmed (by dupiclate/me too's)
[17:11] <charlie-tca> I hope so. I see a lot of bugs marked confirmed that get ignored because they are confirmed already
[17:13] <micahg> well, I would think there's 2 steps to triage, 1. can the bug be reproduced, 2. does this bug have enough information to dig for a fix
[17:13] <charlie-tca> How many bugs in "Confirmed" do you look at as needing triaged?
[17:13] <hggdh> this is the problem with having so coarse granularity...
[17:14] <micahg> well, 1 is confirmed, 2 is triaged
[17:14] <hggdh> if there are 'me too's and/or dupes, then the bug should be initially confirmed, I agree with it
[17:15] <micahg> right
[17:15] <hggdh> may not have enough data to set it to triaged, though, and may be a red herring
[17:15] <charlie-tca> so, we think it should help then
[17:15] <hggdh> I think so, Charlie, out of the depths of my ignorance
[17:16] <charlie-tca> I just see a problem with too many bugs in "New" being moved to too many bugs in "Confirmed"
[17:16] <hggdh> there is a potential problem, yes
[17:17] <hggdh> this does not *solve* the issue of too many bugs needing triage, of course
[17:18] <micahg> well, this could potentially affect teams that use confirmed as triaged though
[17:18] <charlie-tca> agreed. Maybe my brain is working overtime again, seeing issues when they don't exist yet
[17:18] <hggdh> micahg: this is only for Ubuntu and LP
[17:18] <hggdh> Ubuntu should not use 'confirmed == triaged'
[17:19] <charlie-tca> at this time, they are going to decide whether or not to make it apply to all projects in launchpad
[17:19] <micahg> hggdh: ISTR X and kernel having confirmed meaning more than confirmed
[17:19] <hggdh> oh hell
[17:20]  * hggdh goes on grumbling about not having more status and substatus
[17:20] <charlie-tca> um, kernel does confirm without always being to reproduce, though, since so much is hardware specific there.
[17:20] <micahg> hggdh: have you filled out the bug survey yet?
[17:20] <hggdh> nope
[17:20] <hggdh> I am not sure I want to, the questions are not quite there
[17:20] <charlie-tca> hggdh: +1 on needing more/finer tuned status
[17:20] <yofel> charlie-tca: for kernel confirmed means the debug info is present, not that the bug is confirmed
[17:20]  * micahg thinks both of you need to fill out the survey
[17:21] <hggdh> micahg: you win ;-) I will do it
[17:21] <micahg> hggdh: hopefully we all win :)
[17:21] <hggdh> just got a bit unhappy with the questions, and decided to wait a bit to cool down
[17:21] <charlie-tca> yofel: that's what I meant to say.
[17:23] <yofel> k :)
[17:24] <bdmurray> hggdh: I'd be interested to hear why you are unhappy with the questions if you could send me an email.
[17:25] <bdmurray> charlie-tca: you too
[17:26] <brendand> bdmurray: i'd be happy to fill it out, if it applies to me. not sure where it is.
[17:30] <bdmurray> https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGZqcm9YS083V19XT1RSMmV1RFJ2U3c6MQ
[17:39] <brendand> bdmurray - thanks , filling it now
[17:39] <brendand> bdmurray - my personal pet peeve is duplicate detection
[18:08] <hggdh> bdmurray: done
[18:08] <hggdh> so you can pretty much find which answer is mine ;-)
[18:11] <bdmurray> I'm sure I'd be able to spot your lingo anywhere
[18:12] <hggdh> LOL
[18:27] <Ampelbein> hello there, bugsquad. I'm thinking about adding a pattern for bug #523896 in the bugpatterns file as there are loads of reports with the same installation problem (stale /etc/[passwd|group|shadow].lock). The pattern would look like http://paste.ubuntu.com/649356/ . Do you think this is a good idea?
[18:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 523896 in shadow (Ubuntu) "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later. (affects: 20) (dups: 7) (heat: 111)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523896
[18:28] <Ampelbein> I'm a bit unsure if it is ok to just add such a pattern that would act on all (well, all apport-package) reports without discussing it first.
[18:48] <bdmurray> Ampelbein: I'm on a call but will look at it soon
[18:49] <Pici> w/22
[18:50] <Ampelbein> bdmurray: sure. Also, I would add the same pattern for DpkgTerminalLog (so that normal package installs are found as well). So the complete diff would be http://paste.ubuntu.com/649376/
[18:52] <bdmurray> Ampelbein: thanks for writing all the patterns you have
[18:53] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: I recall a discussion about this, but are we still marking 'invalid' due to inactivity or are we allowing the janitor to 'expire' it?
[18:54] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: just let the janitor do it
[18:54] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: very good.  Thanks.
[18:55] <Ampelbein> bdmurray: no problem. The more patterns we have the less time we spend on triaging known bugs.
[18:56] <Ampelbein> (And package installation are easy targets for patterns)
[19:02] <bdmurray> Ampelbein: indeed
[19:04] <Ampelbein> bdmurray: so, about the pattern. I think it will do the right thing, redirect issues of locked passwd/groups/shadow files to 523896 - they are not bugs in the package that cause the failure report.
[19:15] <bdmurray> bug 523896
[19:15] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 523896 in shadow (Ubuntu) "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later. (affects: 20) (dups: 7) (heat: 108)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523896
[19:15] <bdmurray> Ampelbein: looking now
[19:17] <bdmurray> Ampelbein: did you test it on any packages using search-bugs?
[19:20] <Ampelbein> bdmurray: I did try with ./test-local 813914 (a rtkit issue)
[19:21] <bdmurray> right, but search-bugs can also be useful for finding false positives
[19:22] <bdmurray> so think of a package that adds a user, postfix?, and check its bugs too
[19:22] <bdmurray>  ./search-bugs --package postfix --tags apport-package
[19:23] <Ampelbein> oh, right. False positive testing is important although I can't imagine a false match.
[19:23] <Ampelbein> Hmm, there is no option to search all bugs tagged apport-package?
[19:24] <bdmurray> no, it'd probably time out anyway ;-)
[19:24] <bdmurray> or maybe I did write that
[19:24]  * bdmurray looks
[19:24] <bdmurray> nope
[19:26] <Ampelbein> I'll do some tests against postfix, vsftp, courier and others I can think of that add users.
[19:27] <bdmurray> Looking at all my local DpkgTerminalLog.txt files there are only 25 matches
[19:27] <bdmurray> so I wouldn't worry too much
[19:28] <Ampelbein> say what? You have all DpkgTerminalLog.txt files from Launchpad on your computer? Wow, that's dedication ;-)
[19:28] <bdmurray> only from the open bugs ;-)
[19:30] <Ampelbein> nice
[19:41] <bdmurray> I think the pattern looks good though
[19:44] <Ampelbein> Ok, my testing didn't reveal any problem with the pattern and I think the explanation in 523896 is good enough to give people a hint what to do next.
[19:44] <Ampelbein> So I'll commit/push the changes.
[19:44] <Ampelbein> Thanks for your input, bdmurray.
[19:53] <nerd_bloke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/292203 has been marked as invalid against ppp, which project should it be assigned to for user creation with a usergroup membership?
[19:53] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 292203 in ppp (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/pppd has group owner dip, not dialout (affects: 6) (dups: 2) (heat: 48)" [Undecided,Invalid]
[19:54] <bdmurray> Ampelbein: I think updating the description with the stuff from comment 12 could help us track it down too
[19:55] <Ampelbein> I agree, I will update the description
[19:56] <Ampelbein> But I will do that tomorrow, Bed is calling ;-)
[19:58] <Laibsch> bdmurray: from comment 12?
[20:00] <Laibsch> nerd_bloke: are you evgeniy
[20:00] <Laibsch> ?
[20:01] <Laibsch> that guy needs a chill pill (although I agree progress has been slow on that one, but that's no different from many other tickets)
[20:02] <Laibsch> nerd_bloke is also subscribed to the ticket apart from the OP, so I guess nerd_bloke is not evgeniy
[20:03] <Laibsch> I think it's probably best to open a new ticket and dupe 292203 to that one
[20:05] <Laibsch> bdmurray, Ampelbein: I now realize you were talking about something else entirely.
[20:08] <bdmurray> pedro_: what package tells me I have num lock on when logging in a locked system?
[20:09] <nerd_bloke> Laibsch: there are a few tickets floating around for modems on ubuntu/gnome, i'd prefer not to create more dupes
[20:09] <nerd_bloke> Laibsch: he has a point, it should be a group membership for the default member...
[20:09] <Laibsch> I'm not creating a dupe, at least that's not my intention.  But I want to start from a clean slate
[20:10] <Laibsch> I agree about the problem
[20:10] <nerd_bloke> Laibsch: but i don't know which team handles that side of things
[20:10] <Laibsch> but I want a fresh ticket so devs understand immediately what needs to be done and don't have to wade through the rant
[20:10] <Laibsch> I'm trying to figure out what package creates the first account on the system
[20:12] <Laibsch> I think I'll try my luck with "live-installer", seems like the most likely candidate
[20:17] <Laibsch> nerd_bloke: bug 814270 it is now
[20:17] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 814270 in live-installer (Ubuntu) "first user created on the system needs to be in dip group (affects: 7) (dups: 3) (heat: 44)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814270
[20:18] <Laibsch> oh, duping now does transfer the "affects X users", cool!
[20:21] <nerd_bloke> Laibsch: thanks
[23:43] <bdmurray> woot dpkg bugs under 100


[01:14] <azm> Hi, should be linux-rt or do I have to download it?
[01:14] <azm> seems like its not in repos
[01:15] <holstein> azm: do you need it?
[01:15] <azm> holstein, I thought it would fix my xruns
[01:16] <holstein> you can use abogani's or falks PPA
[01:16] <holstein> https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa
[01:17] <azm> ok, thanks.
[01:17] <holstein> :)
[01:17] <holstein> azm: did you get jack-pulse sorted?
[01:17] <holstein> pulse-jack *
[01:17] <azm> nope, I have no clue where to start
[01:18] <holstein> is pulse running?
[01:18] <azm> it worked fine and after reboot it stops
[01:18] <azm> I will ask falktx if he will be around
[01:19] <holstein> yeah, he'll know
[01:19] <holstein> you can try issuing via alt-f2
[01:19] <holstein> pulseaudio
[01:19] <azm> also how is it solved in ubuntustudio, the pulse and jack issue ?
[01:19] <azm> I never got it properly working together
[01:19] <holstein> azm: solved?
[01:19] <azm> *solved = done
[01:19] <holstein> azm: not sure if there are plans to do anything about it really
[01:20] <holstein> JACK usually suspends pulse
[01:20] <holstein> and so far, thats usually fine for most folks
[01:21] <azm> yea but then you have no sound in firefox eg
[01:21] <holstein> right
[01:21] <holstein> thats not what my production machine is for anyway
[01:21] <holstein> so, thats fine with me
[01:21] <holstein> but, i see the need
[01:21] <holstein> and the frustration
[01:21] <azm> kinda sad. I would expect things like this resolved for such distro.
[01:22] <holstein> azm: i was going to suggest not shipping with anything that doesnt support  JACK ;)
[01:22] <azm> actually I thought it must be my personal problem
[01:22] <azm> not the ubuntustudios
[01:22] <holstein> well, out of the box
[01:22] <holstein> sound works
[01:22] <holstein> pulse FF whatever
[01:22] <holstein> you may or may not need JACK
[01:23] <holstein> and if you do, there are certain things that come with using JACK
[01:23] <azm> yea with patch that normal user can barely found
[01:23] <azm> *find
[01:23] <holstein> azm: nah, out of the box, everything is normal
[01:23] <holstein> just like ubuntu vanilla
[01:23] <azm> that is what I find weird
[01:24] <holstein> eh, you cant please everyone
[01:24] <azm> I think it could be better to somehow got it ready for sound production
[01:24] <holstein> lots of folk use it for graphics
[01:24] <holstein> and US needs to kinda be in the middle ground i think
[01:24] <azm> well that is not big deal
[01:24] <holstein> azm: BUT, i totally hear you
[01:25] <holstein> and remember my frustrations trying to set up any buntu for audio production
[01:25] <azm> ok, I understand that
[01:25] <holstein> but, we are chipping away at what we can
[01:25] <holstein> when we can
[01:25] <holstein> and actually making some nice progress
[01:25] <azm> instead of this, maybe some readme popup tutorial how to get it working properly for each user base would be nice
[01:26] <holstein> azm: you mean for JACK?
[01:26] <holstein> that would be great... but all hardware is kinda different
[01:26] <azm> yep jack and pa together
[01:26] <azm> or just jack
[01:26] <holstein> best we can do is spread the word about the wikis
[01:26] <holstein> and try and keep them updated
[01:26] <azm> both solution actually works and get broken sometimes for me
[01:27] <azm> thats true
[01:28] <azm> but eg. jack pulse brisge works out of the box
[01:28] <azm> *bridge
[01:29] <holstein> in theory
[01:29] <holstein> i have to start pulse manually
[01:29] <azm> falk does not have any tutorial on site
[01:29] <holstein> or make my own startup entry for it
[01:29] <holstein> BUT, i dont use it much anyways
[01:29] <holstein> azm: falk made it
[01:29] <holstein> the pulse-jack brige
[01:29] <azm> yea
[01:29] <holstein> bridge*
[01:29] <holstein> and for his purposes
[01:30] <holstein> KXstudio
[01:30] <holstein> there doesnt need to be a tutorial
[01:30] <holstein> since its usually 'just working'
[01:30] <holstein> in the background
[01:30] <azm> what is the difference ?
[01:30] <holstein> azm: JACK is running at login
[01:30] <holstein> and the pulse-jack bridge is already running
[01:31] <holstein> SO, he doesnt need to explain how to use it
[01:31] <holstein> one of us would need to do that for the ubuntustudio community
[01:31] <holstein> and i dont feel like i understand it enough
[01:31] <holstein> nor, use it enough to comment on it
[01:31] <holstein> or do a tutorial
[01:32] <azm> I see, so there are some advantages to run it before login
[01:32] <holstein> azm: sure, its just out of my usual workflow
[01:32] <holstein> and im still not a fan of KDE
[01:32] <azm> so you use jack for all stuff?
[01:33] <azm> me neither
[01:33] <holstein> on my production machine
[01:33] <azm> ah, well I have now one ntb only
[01:33] <azm> ah, falk is here
[01:33] <azm> I will ask
[01:33] <holstein> cool :)
[17:06] <azm> does someone running -33 realtime with nvidia drivers?
[17:06] <azm> I had no luck installing them from cmd
[17:09] <holstein> azm: i just dont
[17:09] <holstein> i just use nouveau
[17:10] <azm> if it would have 3d support I would use it too
[17:10] <holstein> compiz?
[17:10] <azm> its kinda still in development
[17:10] <azm> nope, blender eg.
[17:10] <holstein> AH
[17:11] <holstein> doesnt work?
[17:11] <holstein> azm: try catching falk
[17:11] <azm> to be honest I never tried
[17:11] <holstein> OR ask in #kxstudio
[17:11] <azm> I just read specs
[17:11] <holstein> i know folks are doing it
[17:11] <holstein> BUT, 3d works on my card
[17:11] <holstein> just not compiz
[17:12] <holstein> which is fine for that box
[17:12] <azm> and how is the performance with flash and browser?
[17:12] <holstein> i dont know
[17:12] <holstein> i dont hav flash installed on that machine
[17:12] <holstein> have*
[17:12] <azm> that problem is that you are not using it for everything like me
[17:12] <holstein> other video plays fine
[17:12] <holstein> its a pretty peppy box
[17:13] <azm> well I will try -31 now or compile -33 myself
[17:13] <holstein> azm: falk addressed that
[17:13] <holstein> the nividia drivers
[17:13] <holstein> his kernels are supposed to be patched of nvidia proprietary drivers
[17:14] <azm> that should do it
[17:14] <holstein> i just never tried to confirm that
[17:14] <azm> I downloaded newest driver from nvidia
[17:14] <azm> tried to run but i to got some error
[17:15] <holstein> azm: the -lowlatency is friendlier
[17:15] <azm> the distribution provided pre install script failed!
[17:15] <holstein> azm: what latency setting are you running at?
[17:15] <holstein> i mean, i can hear anything above 11ms or so really
[17:15] <holstein> SO, if you're getting xruns at like 20ms
[17:16] <holstein> i say, go ahead and relax JACK settings
[17:16] <holstein> and just use tht generic kernel
[17:16] <azm> now periods 3 frames 1024
[17:16] <azm> which already kinda sucks
[17:16] <holstein> azm: yeah, so you're not getting anything you can use in realtime anyways
[17:16] <holstein> SO, you might as well bump that up
[17:17] <holstein> and just roll with what you got
[17:17] <azm> if I relax jack settings I have delay in seconds
[17:17] <azm> lol
[17:17] <holstein> azm: yeah, but does it really matter?
[17:17] <holstein> i mean, you're already at like 60ms
[17:17] <holstein> probably
[17:17] <holstein> SO, who cares if its a second
[17:17] <holstein> ardour adjusts
[17:18] <azm> well If you play in rackarrack eg. and the sound goes out delayd from speakers its weird
[17:18] <holstein> you already cant use rakarrack live
[17:18] <holstein> or soft synths
[17:18] <azm> but its problem with media too
[17:18] <azm> you play youtube video
[17:18] <holstein> media?
[17:18] <holstein> azm: just stop JACK
[17:18] <holstein> and play the video
[17:19] <azm> and its start to get xruns and I get lags
[17:19] <azm> that is not option
[17:19] <holstein> yeah?
[17:19] <azm> not for me
[17:19] <azm> too demanding
[17:19] <azm> :)
[17:19] <holstein> theres a GUI for it
[17:19] <holstein> a button and all
[17:19] <azm> I know
[17:19] <holstein> not too bad
[17:19] <azm> Im usingi t
[17:19] <holstein> and i have a mixer
[17:20] <holstein> line mixer
[17:20] <holstein> i route whatever cards/devices to whatever speakers i want
[17:20] <holstein> azm: thats a realtime connection ;)
[17:20] <holstein> analog, outside the box :)