[09:15] <rbasak> jsalisbury: FYI, I just reassigned bug 1584042. Looks credible.
[09:15] <rbasak> I don't know what kernel version he's using though. I guess I'll let the bot handle that.
[11:36] <jsalisbury> rbasak, thanks, I'll look into it.
[15:06] <mamarley> ricotz: So did you see that message someone just posted on the graphics-drivers mailing list?  Some people…
[15:09] <mamarley> Oh wait, sorry, wrong channel.  I meant to put that in #ubuntu-x.
[15:22] <ricotz> mamarley, hi, no, haven't seen it
[15:23] <mamarley> Some guy just made a post ranting about how the NVIDIA drivers had never worked properly without giving any useful details and in general being an unappreciative loser.
[15:23]  * ricotz reads
[15:26] <ricotz> hmm, yeah, this isn't helpful at all, no real information as you said
[15:27] <ricotz> I can't say much since I don't have a system with both intel and nvidia gfx
[15:28] <ricotz> does the zenbook really have a nvidia card? the support for the latest skylake graphics was a bit unfortunate as well
[17:43] <djs> is a v4.6-wily kernel going to appear in the mainline kernel ppa? I see all the rc's [1234567] and v4.6-yakkety
[20:46] <apw> djs, that extension is about which configuration was used as a base to build it, yakkety's is a more appropriate one than wily


[12:20] <jokerdino> hey, i am back
[12:20] <jokerdino> and i fixed the bullet points in my wiki page! (look: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/jokerdino)
[12:53] <jokerdino> and well, i guess this is more relevant than the previous one. goo.gl/dan10
[12:54] <jokerdino> a simple spreadsheet to track tamil translation stats.
[12:56] <jokerdino> though i got to say, i love the graph in the stats page
[13:21] <dpm> jokerdino, is there anything I could add to the stats page that would help you in not having to use an additional spreadsheet? I can see you've added "days to freeze", perhaps that's something I could add
[13:25] <jokerdino> oh those would help.
[13:26] <jokerdino> i just wanted to keep myself a daily target to try and achieve in order to hit 80%
[13:29] <TLE> dpm: when we get history we could also calculate the development (slope of the graph) over different length intervals
[13:30] <dpm> TLE, we've already got history
[13:30] <TLE> that might help people track progress
[13:30] <TLE> it's up?
[13:30] <TLE> awesome
[13:30] <TLE> so it is adding data once a day regularly now
[13:31] <TLE> that is great
[13:31] <dpm> yes, I enabled it on Friday for the UGJ, and I've now set it up on a daily cron job
[13:31] <TLE> dpm: nice
[13:31] <TLE> btw
[13:32] <TLE> I was thinking, you were talking the other day of making a proper project for it and everything
[13:32] <dpm> TLE, http://<IP_ADDRESS>/stats/precise/da
[13:32] <dpm> yeah, I'll do it as soon as I've got a minute
[13:32] <dpm> it shouldn't have been a +junk branch for that long!
[13:33] <TLE> I was thinking that maybe we should combine the two app into one project, the django framewrok has good support for that anyway
[13:33] <TLE> that may remove a little of the admin overhead
[13:34] <dpm> TLE, I've been thinking of that too, but I'm not too sure about sharing the database. Although, on the other hand, I think it should be ok
[13:34] <dpm> so it might be a good idea
[13:34] <TLE> dpm: I considered the database as well
[13:34] <TLE> it will make it more difficult to run an off line version
[13:35] <jokerdino> dpm, if there is an easy way to check the 80% mark and the days remaining before the freeze, it would be awesome.
[13:35] <jokerdino> that would be enough to do away with my personal sheet
[13:35] <TLE> but there is no problem in the image app using the same dbase as the stats page, since it is separate data structures, separate tables and the dabse usage on the image page is really low
[13:39] <TLE> on another note, I finished half of the work on object orieting the data structures yesterday, so it'll soon be in a non-embarraring state :D
[13:41] <dpm> cool :)
[13:42] <dpm> jokerdino, what do you mean with a way to check the 80% mark?
[13:42] <dpm> the number of messages to reach 80%?
[13:42] <jokerdino> yeah
[13:42] <dpm> let me see what I can do, but it might take me a few days
[13:43] <jokerdino> thanks
[13:43] <TLE> dpm: let's chew on for a couple of days
[13:46] <dpm> ok
[19:06] <kondicherry> need help


[09:49] <GrueMaster> :j #ubuntu-uds-teck
[09:52] <GrueMaster> j #ubuntu-uds-teck
[09:54] <StevenK> GrueMaster: Multiple fail
[09:55] <GrueMaster> I was trying to figure out quassel's aliases.
[09:55] <GrueMaster> it's /j.
[09:55] <GrueMaster> but it isn't documented as such.
[09:55] <GrueMaster> why, did my typing look like a touch of Aussie?


 Glad to be back.
[17:24] <Saviq> Talk tomorrow o/


[17:24] <vish> looks like a lot of folks are registered here » http://www.elance.com/
[17:26] <coz_> vish,  mm  that looks interesting
[20:17] <vish> troy_s: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/5940406445
[20:17] <troy_s> erp
[20:17] <troy_s> vish: *sigh*


 Looks like it was an issue with VirtualBox. Got an updated version of VB n now the new iso build is getting installed.
 Forwarded from unknown: Ubuntu Unity 20.10 is now available for the Raspberry Pi!  🎉 It includes amd64-arm, which sets up an emulated Debian x86_64 (Stretch) environment. This would help you to run common 64-bit (amd64) programs on your Raspberry Pi.Details are available at: https://ubuntuunity.org/2020/12/01/ubuntu-unity-20-10-for-raspberry-pi/ :
 Forwarded from unknown:


[04:12]  * highvoltage crawls in bed and watches star trek
[10:37] <sakhi> happy birthday highvoltage
[12:59] <mgariepy> good morning everybody !
[13:16] <highvoltage> enkosi kakhulu sakhi :)
[13:16] <highvoltage> bon matin mgariepy
[13:18] <mgariepy> bonne fête highvoltage
[13:19] <highvoltage> merci :)
[15:45] <linuxson> Hi. Is there a channel I can join for iTalc users?
[15:51] <highvoltage> good question
[15:51] <highvoltage> linuxson: feel free to ask here, if you hang around there's a good chance someone could give an answer
[15:54] <linuxson> highvoltage: Ok :)
[15:58] <linuxson26> I am having some difficulty with iTalc, more specifically  with the powering back on and logging into of client  computers. I can switch them off, and wakeonlan has been  enabled...but I can't get them to power back on again. Got  MAC addresses and everything set up in iTalc
[15:58] <linuxson26> And logging in with usernames and passwords is also not working
[15:59] <highvoltage> linuxson26: sorry if I'm jumping to the first obvious question, but have you checked the bios yet to see if WoL is enabled?
[16:01] <highvoltage> linuxson26 : you could also test with the wakeonlan script from the wakeonlan package to eliminate whether it's an italc problem or not
[16:02] <linuxson26> highvoltage: I have alerady done all this, and I can power the machines back on using etherwake
[16:02] <nigelb> stgraber: poke?
[16:03] <linuxson26> But I am still trying to figure out how to let etherwake run a script, if at all possible, so that I don't have to run it for every single machine
[16:03] <nigelb> stgraber: hey, would you be willing to talk at udw about app review board and extras.ubuntu.com?
[16:03] <linuxson26> highvoltage: I tried wakeonlan, but it's giving me a "no such file/folder at line 138" error or something
[16:04] <linuxson26> highvoltage: So I am currently stuck with etherwake and iTalc
[16:06] <stgraber> nigelb: when is it ?
[16:06] <nigelb> stgraber: last week of march
[16:06] <nigelb> you can pick an empty slot from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Timetable
[16:12] <stgraber> nigelb: ok, Thursday at 18:00 UTC would work
[16:12] <nigelb> stgraber: \o/ Thank you
[16:12] <stgraber> not sure what I'd say for an hour though, but I'll have time to think about it :)
[16:12] <nigelb> stgraber: what do you want me to title it as 'Getting your app into Ubuntu' ?
[16:13] <nigelb> stgraber: ouch, rickspencer picked up that slot a while back
[16:13] <stgraber> ah, right ;) 19:00 UTC then
[16:13] <nigelb> ok!
[16:14] <linuxson26> I am having some difficulty with iTalc, more specifically  with the powering back on and logging into of client  computers. I can switch them off, and wakeonlan has been  enabled...but I can't get them to power back on again. Got  MAC addresses and everything set up in iTalc
[16:14] <stgraber> nigelb: title should either mention extra or post-release
[16:14] <nigelb> ok


[01:56] <owner_> anyone know why when I hit my uefi reset cmos button on the back of my case I get the ubuntu efi boot option in the bios but after I restart again it is gone?
[01:57] <owner_> I am trying to get the dual boot option going it works fine with grub first go around then gone back to windows boot loader
[01:57] <owner_> I suppose I could put ubuntu into the windows 10 boot loader somehow.
[01:58] <owner_> could someone please send me an instruction
[01:58] <owner_> I think there was a way to rewrite the bcd with the linux boot in a program under windows but I think it was depreciated with uefi
[01:59] <owner_> also I have secure boot off
[01:59] <owner_> easybcd?
[01:59] <owner_> does it work now?
[02:00] <fareast> you guys get those message?
[03:00] <zxq9> fareast/owner: Are you still on in any form?
[06:34] <co_cari_kerja_bu> is anyone here
[06:41] <hateball> !ask | co_cari_kerja_bu
[06:57] <lordievader> Good morning
[12:41] <chan201> hi
[12:42] <lordievader> 👋
[12:43] <chan201> hi
[13:39] <BluesKaj_> Hi folks
[18:20] <lakitu> i notice you guys package firefox with kubuntu - big thanks
[18:21] <lakitu> good ethics at mozilla, from what i know of
[18:38] <fareast> is there a way to get an applications icon on the desktop?
[18:40] <lakitu> drag & drop, if your desktop is set to desktop/folder view layout
[18:41] <lakitu> sometime's i've had to play with the file properties, to get certain programs (e.g. jar files, etc) to run properly
[18:41] <lakitu> on the created icon
[18:41] <lakitu> sometimes*
[18:42] <lakitu> i meant to type
[20:45] <fareast> I am trying to dual boot someone help guide me I am pretty tech savy.
[20:45] <fareast> win 10 uefi and ubuntu uefi don't play, if I go ubuntu legacy will I have better chance and keeping the bios from borking?
[20:46] <mr-rich> I haven't dual booted in 20 years ...
[20:46] <fareast> I am even running on separate drives
[20:46] <fareast> well congrats
[20:46] <fareast> I don't just work on linux machines
[20:46] <fareast> I use them all
[20:46] <fareast> even android
[20:47] <mr-rich> You could try VBox instead ...
[20:47] <mr-rich> run both at the same time ... sorta
[20:47] <fareast> well yeah
[20:47] <fareast> but as far as native hardware running and not vm you have to boot it.
[20:48] <fareast> I am trying to unleash the animal.
[20:48] <mr-rich> Laptop?
[20:48] <fareast> no
[20:49] <fareast> workstation
[20:50] <fareast> I just can't believe someone hasn't made a hack to bypass the ms efi write back to the bios yet
[20:50] <fareast> I am going to google it.
[20:50] <mr-rich> Never tried to dual boot on uefi ... heard it can be nasty ...
[20:50] <fareast> yeah well ms drops their lock in there.
[20:50] <fareast> as soon as their os gains control of your bios
[20:50] <fareast> only way of getting back to linux is cmos reset to factory setup
[20:51] <mr-rich> Boot Ununtu and run Win10 as a VM ... problem solved ... :)
[20:51] <fareast> luckily i have a button that does that on the back of the case
[20:51] <fareast> no that isn't a solution
[20:51] <fareast> I need full headroom for both os
[20:51] <fareast> depending on what is going on.
[20:51] <mr-rich> is for me ... :)
[20:52] <mr-rich> I have 4 computers ... Only 1 runs M$ ... a cheap laptop ... 2 run Linux and 1 Mac ....
[20:52] <mr-rich> Bill can byte me ... :)
[20:54] <fareast> oh god
[20:54] <fareast> here is the solution
[20:54] <fareast> set a password in your bios so ms can't access it
[20:54] <fareast> simple
[20:54] <fareast> imma try it and report back
[21:04] <fareast> nothing works
[21:04] <fareast> ms is just evil
[21:05] <fareast> you can't dual boot uefi at least not on this system
[21:05] <fareast> someone said lenovo had a lockout with the password
[21:05] <fareast> prolly cause lenovo bios is built for nasa
[21:05] <fareast> and they run fedora
[21:08] <fareast> as far as using this bcdedit /set "{bootmgr}" path \EFI\ubuntu\grubx64.efi
[21:08] <fareast> which changes the windows boot to point to grub that just gives you a black screen now
[21:09] <fareast> like they have killed it with a if then statement or something
[21:12] <fareast> so the only solution would be boot legacy then change back to uefi if going back into windows
[21:12] <fareast> well well


[00:40] <Riddell> superm1: how do I tag?
[00:40] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Installer/Development/Release doesn't say and debcommit -r -R doesn't want to do it
[05:18] <superm1> Riddell, bzr tag
[05:18] <superm1> normally debcommit -r would, but you already did the release with it
[13:08] <Riddell> "Failed to load stepPrepare.ui.
[13:08] <Riddell> The following required catalogs are unavailable: gtkwidgets"
[13:08] <Riddell> how can I load that?
[13:08]  * Riddell eyes up ev
[13:28]  * highvoltage needs to work with ubiquity plugins too over the next few days and is scared already!
[18:20] <cruejones> Hi, think I might have found a preseed bug on ubuntu-10.04-alternate-amd64.iso
[18:20] <cruejones> does not seem to respect "d-i pkgsel/update-policy select none"
[18:21] <cruejones> using the same preseed file on the server iso works as expected ( ubuntu-10.04-server-amd64.iso )


[04:15] <inetpro> good evening
[04:52] <magespawn> good morning
[05:14] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[05:15] <Kilos> hi magespawn  and everyone else
[05:24] <magespawn> got to go
[05:24] <magespawn> chat later
[05:24] <Kilos> go well
[05:44] <thatgraemeguy> mornings
[05:45] <Kilos> hi thatgraemeguy
[05:46] <chesedo> morning Kilos thatgraemeguy and others
[05:46] <chesedo> and evening inetpro
[05:47] <Kilos> hi chesedo
[06:44] <Kilos> hi Na3iL
[06:45] <Kilos> morning superfly
[07:06] <theblazehen> morning Kilos, superfly
[07:06] <Kilos> hi theblazehen
[07:06] <theblazehen> How's things going Kilos?
[07:07] <Kilos> ok ty and you lad?
[07:07] <theblazehen> I'm pretty good thanks
[08:50] <theblazehen> Wow. Kde plasmashell is using 160% CPU, Xorg 90%, other plasmashell process 70%
[09:00] <Kilos> ouch
[09:07] <superfly> good evening
[09:20] <TheMurdz> Morning!
[09:20] <mazal> Mornings
[09:21] <mazal> Oom Kilos , I got that dongle working in Kubuntu. Was straight forward once I knew where to go
[09:21] <Kilos> well done
[09:21] <Kilos> hi the mur
[09:22] <Kilos> ai!
[09:22] <Kilos> TheMurdz
[09:22] <TheMurdz> Howdy :)
[09:22] <Kilos> what is a murdz
[09:22] <TheMurdz> It's a me.
[09:22] <Kilos> hahaha
[09:22] <Kilos> well said
[09:23] <Kilos> Maaz define murdz
[09:23] <Maaz> Kilos: I don't have a definition for that. Is it even a word?
[09:23] <mazal> My connection keeps jumping between U and H. I know what H is but don't know what U is
[09:23] <Kilos> its one faster
[09:24] <Kilos> kde 14.04 has no hassles finfing and connecting with usb dongles
[09:25] <Kilos> finding
[09:25] <Kilos> maybe im going blinder
[10:58] <mazal> A favour please , could someone say my name in 15 secs from now , trying to fix my *ding*
[11:04] <thatgraemeguy> mazal: DING DING DING
[11:04] <mazal> Thanx thatgraemeguy , still not working ai
[11:04] <mazal> Where is this freekin setting
[11:05] <thatgraemeguy> mine flashes
[11:05] <mazal> At least I have a system tray icon now
[11:05] <thatgraemeguy> ding useless to me if headphones aren't on
[11:05] <mazal> Little white one that flash also , but no sound
[11:14] <mazal> I think I miiiiiiiiight have found it
[11:25] <theblazehen> Makro has a sale on 5 TB drives btw. Something like R2300 each. Gonna get a few
[15:12] <Cryterion> Afternoon
[15:23] <Kilos> hi Cryterion
[15:23] <Cryterion> Hey Kilos
[16:30] <Kilos> hmm...
[16:31] <pavlushka> Hello guys!
[16:33] <inetpro> ⁛
[16:35] <Kilos> evening inetpro
[16:35] <inetpro> oh hi Kilos
[16:36] <inetpro> und hallo pavlushka
[16:36] <Kilos> lol
[16:36] <Kilos> i was bad today
[16:37] <Kilos> crashed all afternoon and missed a membership meeting
[16:37] <Kilos> shame
[16:41] <pavlushka> inetpro: I am good, thanks for asking, now I am even better, :)
[16:42] <pavlushka> Kilos: that's not likely of you I think.
[16:42] <inetpro> Kilos: oh my, he's being sarcastic?
[16:43] <Kilos> yes but luckily so did all other board members except one
[16:43] <pavlushka> lol
[16:43] <inetpro> pavlushka: are you ok?
[16:43] <Kilos> the 12 utc time is always bad to get board members there
[16:44] <pavlushka> inetpro: yeah I am ok, any inconsistency you noticed?
[16:47] <Kilos> lol
[16:52] <pavlushka> Good news, its reboot time!
[17:30] <Wolfeyes> evening all
[17:30] <Kilos> hi Wolfeyes
[17:32] <pavlushka> inetpro: help!!!
[17:32] <Kilos> what did you break
[17:34] <pavlushka> I cloned a linux system partition to another partition, updated grub, selected the new system entry to boot but it boots into the old one.
[17:34] <pavlushka> or into the original one
[17:37] <Kilos> haha been waiting to try this
[17:37] <Kilos> wayttd
[17:38] <Kilos> what are you trying to do
[17:39] <pavlushka> I just wanted to shift my working system to a bigger partition which is not an adjacent partition.
[17:40] <Wolfeyes> lol @ the kid
[17:41] <Wolfeyes> kilos you a big kid
[17:41] <Kilos> why?
[17:41] <Wolfeyes> what you typed up there ^
[17:41] <Kilos> lol
[17:41] <Wolfeyes> Got another question maybe you can answer it...
[17:41] <Kilos> te guys always asked me that and everytime i had to do ??
[17:42] <Kilos> seems memory is improving
[17:42] <Wolfeyes> how do I put into the terminal a command from a script?
[17:42] <Wolfeyes> like a batch file
[17:42] <Kilos> copy paste
[17:42] <Wolfeyes> lol
[17:42] <Wolfeyes> no man
[17:43] <pavlushka> Wolfeyes: I am on my toes here, :|
[17:43] <Wolfeyes> I want it to be in a script and when I click on the script it activates the terminal
[17:43] <Wolfeyes> You changing light bulbs pavlushka?
[17:43] <Kilos> on kde?
[17:44] <Wolfeyes> it's actually for windows, but I need to know the command going to a terminal like console (cygwin) within windows.
[17:44] <Kilos> sjoe
[17:44] <Wolfeyes> I get the program open but can't put commands into it
[17:44] <Kilos> i dont know if you will get that kinda help here
[17:45] <Wolfeyes> ?
[17:45] <Wolfeyes> it is for a terminal
[17:45] <Kilos> peeps here dont play with win
[17:45] <Wolfeyes> it is for a linux terminal
[17:46] <Kilos> yes i know
[17:46] <Kilos> how would you do it on kde
[17:46] <Wolfeyes> well that's what I am asking lol
[17:46] <Wolfeyes> now you asking me the same thing back
[17:47] <Kilos> you want to run a program from terminal
[17:47] <Kilos> then you just type it in terminal
[17:47] <Wolfeyes> I want to create a script, which opens a terminal and opens and runs a program according to the command put in
[17:47] <Kilos> like i can start gparted by typing sudo gparted
[17:48] <Kilos> im the greeter bot here, maybe someone else can help
[17:49] <Kilos> what does google show you
[17:49] <Wolfeyes> like lets say in the script there is, open terminal , and then putting the commands to update and upgrade your pc, so all you do is click on the script and your daily update and upgrade gets done.
[17:49] <Kilos> oh yes i been wanting to ask someone what is google fu
[17:50] <Wolfeyes> to many other things which is way off the topic
[17:50] <Kilos> we use cron for that
[17:50] <Kilos> well others do
[17:50] <Wolfeyes> cron?
[17:50] <Kilos> try man cron
[17:50] <Wolfeyes> okay ty
[17:51] <Kilos> you set up a cron job that does that stuff
[17:51] <Kilos> oh my you on win now
[17:51] <Kilos> Wolfeyes ^^
[17:51] <MaNI> xdg-terminal should open the system default terminal
[17:51] <Kilos> man dont work there
[17:52] <Wolfeyes> nope
[17:52] <Wolfeyes> kde
[17:52] <Kilos> ah
[17:52] <Wolfeyes> that is the right idea but now I want to do that from a batch file, can it be done?
[17:52] <Wolfeyes> mmmmm
[17:53] <MaNI> on kde you can use 'konsole' to open konsole which is the terminal application, but xdg-open - if it is present - is 'better' because it will work no matter what default terminal you switch too
[17:53] <Wolfeyes> maybe cron is installable in windows
[17:53] <Wolfeyes> mmmm interesting
[17:53] <MaNI> a cron will allow you to run the script in an automatically scheduled way, which is a bit different from what you've asked for but of course not necessarily wrong
[17:54] <inetpro> Wolfeyes: what you want is the following
[17:54] <inetpro> https://www.google.com/search?q=unattended+upgrades+ubuntu
[17:55] <Kilos> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CronHowto
[17:56] <chesedo> Wolfeyes: does it have to open the terminal?
[17:59] <Wolfeyes> well yes and no inetpro idea is right, wrong application - I want to open a terminal and then run a command to run stream editor in it, to edit a file with an error in it, because without editing the error it can't be imported into the computer software
[18:00] <inetpro> 04/20 19:49:24 <Wolfeyes> like lets say in the script there is, open terminal , and then putting the commands to update and upgrade your pc, so all you do is click on the script and your daily update and upgrade gets done.
[18:01] <inetpro> Wolfeyes: that sounds different to what you wrote there ^^
[18:01] <Wolfeyes> I was giving my father an example he could understand
[18:01] <inetpro> oh my
[18:02] <Wolfeyes> opening the terminal is the same, what commmand you put there shouldn't make a difference to run the program
[18:02] <inetpro> well I don't understand you last example either
[18:02] <Wolfeyes> okay
[18:02] <inetpro> your*
[18:02] <Wolfeyes> lets try again
[18:04] <Wolfeyes> I want to click on a script, which will open a terminal, then input a command into the terminal and run, which will be, "sed -i 's/oldtext/newtext/g' path", problem solved...
[18:04] <MaNI> I do believe I already answered this, call xdg-open or konsole from the script (in decreasing order of preference) depending on whats available on your system - is there a reason this answer doesn't work for you?
[18:04] <MaNI> *xdg-terminal
[18:05] <Wolfeyes> and how do you put in a command to the xdg-open?
[18:05] <Wolfeyes> xdg-terminal*
[18:06] <Wolfeyes> from a script
[18:08] <MaNI> just pass it as an argument - e.g. `xdg-terminal top`
[18:09] <MaNI> or `konsole -e top`
[18:12] <Wolfeyes> ty for the help I will see if I come right with this
[18:12] <Wolfeyes> or google more
[18:13] <Kilos> sjoe good luck
[18:27] <pavlushka> Kilos: are you working late today?
[18:27] <Kilos> nope
[18:27] <Kilos> but i slept all afternoon so have a bit more energy
[18:32] <pavlushka> hmm
[18:32] <pavlushka> inetpro: hi, how are you???
[18:39] <Kilos> ai!
[18:41] <Kilos> only 32 bit iso i have is 12.04 and older
[19:01] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:14] <pavlushka> yea.., my problem solved!!!!!! :)
[19:14] <chesedo> congrats pavlushka
[19:15] <pavlushka> chesedo: congrats to you too, :), you know I am very happy now,;)
[19:15] <pavlushka> that's why!!
[20:17] <mazal> Ai  , a sad day for old school gamers :(
[20:24] <theblazehen> mazal: What's that?
[20:25] <mazal> http://sagamer.co.za/2016/04/20/the-end-of-an-era-has-arrived-xbox-360-has-officially-been-discontinued
[20:25] <mazal> Been the best era there was yet
[20:28] <mazal> Sony will probably follow suit shortly with the PS3
[21:34] <theblazehen> "Been the best era there was yet" [Citation needed]
[21:34] <theblazehen> I'm not gonna start anything..
[22:29] <Cryterion> 16.04 release date


[00:28] <kostmo> i can't seem to get uploaded packages to show up on my PPA page
[00:29] <kostmo> dput executes without any error messages
[00:37] <cody-somerville> What exactly are you executing?
[00:38] <kostmo> dput my-ppa pyrocket_0.5_source.changes
[00:39] <kostmo> this is right after I run 'debuild -S -sa'
[00:39] <kostmo> 'pyrocket' is the name of my package
[00:57] <wgrant> kostmo: They should on't appear every 5 or 10 minutes. Do you get an email about it?
[00:57] <kostmo> I never received an e-mail, though I expected one.  I ran dput last night.
[00:58] <wgrant> kostmo: Was your package appropriately signed, with a key associated with your Launchpad account?
[01:02] <kostmo> it was.  I went through the business of adding and verifying a GPG key to my Launchpad acct., and debuild did prompt me for my passphrase to sign the package.
[01:02] <kostmo> nothing with "ppa" or "ubuntu" in my spam folder either
[01:04] <wgrant> kostmo: To which directory on the FTP server were you uploading?
[01:05] <kostmo> my .dput.cf file has a line that says: incoming = ~kostmo/ubuntu/
[01:06] <wgrant> OK, so that should be fine...
[01:07] <kostmo> The last two lines that dput says are: (1) Successfully uploaded packages. , and (2) Not running dinstall.
[01:07] <wgrant> Right, but dput doesn't do much - it merely uploads something to an FTP server.
[01:08] <wgrant> Can you pastebin your unsigned .changes? It needs to be unsigned, as a signed one is dangerous.
[01:08] <wgrant> There are only a couple of reasons for it to not email you.
[01:10] <kostmo> ok, so I should run 'debuild -sa' without the '-S'?
[01:10] <wgrant> No, you need the -S.
[01:10] <wgrant> S is for source-only.
[01:10] <wgrant> debuild -S -Sa -us -uc
[01:10] <wgrant> (us == unsigned source, uc == unsigned .changes)
[01:10] <wgrant> Er, -sa
[01:11] <wgrant> Not -Sa
[01:12] <kostmo> Format: 1.7
[01:12] <kostmo> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 02:30:26 -0500
[01:12] <kostmo> Source: pyrocket
[01:12] <kostmo> Architecture: source
[01:12] <kostmo> Version: 0.5
[01:12] <kostmo> Distribution: unstable
[01:12] <kostmo> Urgency: low
[01:13] <kostmo> Maintainer: Karl Ostmo<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:13] <kostmo> Changed-By: Karl Ostmo <kostmo@lapster>
[01:13] <kostmo> Changes:
[01:13] <kostmo>  pyrocket (0.5) unstable; urgency=low
[01:13] <kostmo>  .
[01:13] <kostmo>    * Initial release.
[01:13] <kostmo> Files:
[01:13] <kostmo>  ff3937811f2941b997d769d7349bddd8 152 games optional pyrocket_0.5.dsc
[01:13] <kostmo>  d607386c1f38bf6b3e5123e177d6ff4b 61990 games optional pyrocket_0.5.tar.gz
[01:14] <wgrant> !paste | kostmo
[01:14] <wgrant> That Changed-By is bogus.
[01:14] <wgrant> That might be it.
[01:14] <wgrant> Use a proper email address in the changelog
[01:14] <wgrant> Though, hmm, I've seen uploads like that before.
[01:14] <wgrant> Ah.
[01:15] <wgrant> The distribution is wrong.
[01:15] <wgrant> It needs to be an Ubuntu release.
[01:15] <eMxyzptlk> hey guys, how to add a new distro to the page https://code.launchpad.net/distros ??
[01:15] <cody-somerville> eMxyzptlk, you can't
[01:15] <wgrant> eMxyzptlk: Your best bet is probably to ask a question at the Launchpad Answers URL in the topic.
[01:15] <eMxyzptlk> wgrant, ah ok
[01:15] <eMxyzptlk> Thx
[01:15] <wgrant> Only Launchpad Admins can do it.
[01:16] <eMxyzptlk> Okay well I try to ask a question...
[01:16] <eMxyzptlk> We already set up a project
[01:16] <eMxyzptlk> for it on LP
[01:16] <kostmo> wgrant: thanks, I'll change the Distribution line and see what happens
[01:17] <wgrant> kostmo: Change it in the changelog.
[01:18] <kostmo> should I change the word 'unstable' to 'hardy'?  My ppa only lists repositories for 'intrepid'
[01:19] <wgrant> kostmo: If you want it to go to Hardy, change it to hardy.
[01:29] <kostmo> ok, I changed the distribution name to 'hardy' and the e-mail address from 'kostmo@lapster' to<EMAIL_ADDRESS> Waiting for a confirmation e-mail.  Is it the e-mail that should take 5+ minutes, or just showing up in the PPA list?
[01:32] <eMxyzptlk> Okay question added https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/36900
[01:36] <wgrant> kostmo: They should occur simultaneously.
[01:38] <kostmo> ok, 'cause I read in https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart that it could take up to twenty minutes... so I could be waiting that long for the email
[01:39] <wgrant> kostmo: It could take up to 20 minutes for it to appear on ppa.launchpad.net.
[01:40] <kostmo> right, but did you say that appearing there is simultaneous with the confirmation e-mail?
[01:41] <wgrant> kostmo: Appearing on your PPA page, ie. https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+archive, is different from appearing on ppa.launchpad.net.
[01:42] <kostmo> ok
[01:43] <kostmo> looks like there's a tilde there rather than a +; https://launchpad.net/~kostmo/+archive
[01:45] <wgrant> kostmo: /people/+me redirects to ~yourusername
[01:47] <kostmo> ah ic that's a literal "me" -- i wasn't supposed to change it
[01:49] <wgrant> Correct.
[01:49] <kostmo> ok well anyway -- still no confirmation e-mail -- i suspect it would be here by now if it was going to work
[01:49] <wgrant> kostmo: Right, we'll have to wait for somebody with access to the logs on the PPA server.
[01:49] <wgrant> cprov: ^^
[01:53] <kostmo> another thing - I'm getting some warnings when I run "dbuild", such as "dpkg-source: warning: unknown information field 'Package'..."
[01:54] <kostmo> though when I use "dpkg -b" to make my binary, it results in a perfectly installable .deb package
[01:55] <kostmo> I'm concerned that these warnings might have something to do with this upload problem, though dput tells me that the upload has taken place
[01:55] <wgrant> As I said earlier, dput does nothing but verify the signature on the .dsc and .changes, and upload them to an FTP server.
[01:56] <kostmo> would this type of warning be something that this 'confirmation e-mail' reports back to me?  Or will it silently fail?
[01:58] <wgrant> I only know of two circumstances in which it will fail to even send an email - an invalid signature (or a signature by a key unknown to Launchpad), or an invalid maintainer address.
[02:02] <kostmo> well, Launchpad says that I have an active key "1024D/93D6AA97", and I've been running "debuild -S -sa -k93D6AA97"
[02:03] <kostmo> which prompts me for my passphrase, then "dput" later says 'gpg: Good signature from "Karl Ostmo<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:04] <wgrant> Right, so it's probably another problem.
[02:06] <kostmo> alright... I can leave my xchat window open in case someone with PPA server log access drops in... but I have to take off in an hour
[02:07] <kostmo> is there a board I can post on with this problem?
[02:08] <wgrant> kostmo: You could ask at https://answers.launchpad.net/soyuz
[02:12] <cprov> kostmo: how are you building your source package, you changesfile is broken -> Unable to find mandatory field 'binary' in the changes file.
[02:13] <wgrant> Aha, that will be from the dpkg-source 'Package' error.
[02:14] <wgrant> kostmo: Can you please pastebin (not paste here) your debian/control?
[02:14] <cprov> I doubt `debuild -S` would pass thoughtthis control file w/o a warning
[02:14] <kostmo> there were warnings for sure
[02:14] <wgrant> cprov: Shouldn't it email in that case, as long as the sig is valid and there's a maintainer?
[02:15] <cprov> wgrant: changesfile is unparsable, since it lacks mandatory fields, we can't to much in such cases
[02:16] <wgrant> cprov: OK, so this needs that feature where rejected uploads are displays somewhere on launchpad.net.
[02:16] <wgrant> *displayed
[02:16] <cprov> wgrant: the plan for 3.0 is do to such basic checks before finishing the ftp/scp session
[02:17] <wgrant> cprov: That would be even better.
[02:17] <cprov> wgrant: so dput will 'know
[02:17] <cprov> if something is horribly broken
[02:17] <kostmo> ok, I used the pastebin thingy to upload my 'control' file
[02:17] <kostmo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/21709/
[02:17] <cprov> no binaries ?
[02:18] <wgrant> Wow. That's broken.
[02:18] <wgrant> Only one paragraph, and a Version field.
[02:18] <wgrant> kostmo: You need another linefeed before the Package field, and you need to drop the Version field.
[02:18] <wgrant> And your description needs to be split into 80-character lines.
[02:19] <wgrant> And I would have thought that lintian would have picked all of this up.
[02:19] <kostmo> yeah lintian complained too, but since dpkg -b worked, and since I didn't get any e-mail confirmation, I wasn't sure it was actually an issue
[02:20] <wgrant> If lintian complains, it is an issue.
[02:20] <wgrant> Unless you know why the error is there, and there's no way around it, lintian is always right.
[02:21] <kostmo> ok. does dpkg use a different format for the 'control' file?  Or is it just more robust?
[02:21] <wgrant> Probably more robust.
[02:21] <wgrant> Who knows why.
[02:23] <wgrant> The control file that killed your PPA upload was a different one, however.
[02:23] <wgrant> But generated from debian/control.
[02:24] <kostmo> In my debian/control, dbuild still gives me the warning "unknown information field 'Package' in input data in general section of control info file", even after adding another linefeed
[02:25] <james_w> It needs to be "Source:" instead of "Package:"
[02:25] <james_w> ah, sorry, it is
[02:27] <kostmo> james_w: it is what?
[02:27] <kostmo> oh i get it
[02:27] <kostmo> i think
[02:29] <kostmo> OK, so when I add that newline in between the "" and "" lines, I get an error when I try to build the binary .deb file with "dpkg": "dpkg-deb: parse error, in file `pyrocket-0.4/DEBIAN/control' near line 5:
[02:29] <kostmo>  missing package name"
[02:30] <wgrant> Pastebin it, please.
[02:30] <kostmo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/21711/
[02:31] <wgrant> The description field is corrupt - continuations need to be indented by a space.
[02:32] <wgrant> Here's a good example of mine: http://pastebin.com/f1c7db5a1
[02:32] <kostmo> ok... i think i'm seeing a trend of incompatability between dpkg -b and debuild
[02:34] <kostmo> dpkg-deb: parse error, in file `pyrocket-0.4/DEBIAN/control' near line 16 package `pyrocket':
[02:34] <kostmo>  missing version
[02:34] <wgrant> How are you trying to build it?
[02:35] <kostmo> dpkg -b pyrocket-0.5
[02:35] <wgrant> I've never seen anybody do that before.
[02:35] <wgrant> Use dpkg-buildpackage or debuild.
[02:35] <kostmo> might have grabbed that from an old tutorial...
[02:35] <kostmo> but it worked, so I stuck with it... until now
[02:35] <wgrant> A decade old, maybe.
[02:36] <kostmo> it also required capitalized DEBIAN, so I added a symbolic link of lowercase debian to the existing DEBIAN
[02:39] <kostmo> I wonder if and where it would be appropriate to warn people away from my method (dpkg -b)?
[02:54] <kostmo> I'm getting an error with debuild:
[02:54] <kostmo>  dpkg-genchanges  >../pyrocket_0.5_i386.changes
[02:54] <kostmo> dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
[02:54] <kostmo> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: dpkg-genchanges gave error exit status 2
[02:55] <vadi2> How can I make launchpad linkify an apt: link in the PPA description?
[02:55] <cprov> vadi2: filing a bug ;) It doesn't support it right now.
[02:56] <kostmo> what's the "files list file"?
[02:56] <cprov> vadi2: does firefox supports apt:$url ?
[02:57] <vadi2> cprov: yes, apt: works too
[02:58] <vadi2> It seems a bug about this was already filed in january
[02:59] <cprov> vadi2: bug # ?
[02:59] <vadi2> 179868
[03:04] <cprov> vadi2: right
[03:13] <kostmo> g2g, thanks for the direction wgrant, cprov.  Will read up on some modern packaging procedures now :)
[04:47] <wgrant> Is edge meant to be OOPSing regularly (often while trying to authenticate my cookie, it appears)
[04:47] <wgrant> *?
[05:00] <Peng> It's a study to see how determined people really are to use LP. :)
[05:00] <wgrant> And somebody couldn't make up their mind on how to name table fields, I see.
[12:50] <exarkun> I clicked on a link to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightyear/storm/twisted_integration_dfr_ref_multithread_fix/revision/204 and I got a page that said I should come here and say what happened
[12:54] <persia> Odd.  I only get a 404 error there (and not an LP-branded 404, but a "Powered by CherryPy 2.2.21 404)
[12:54] <persia> Ah, but you've left :(
[13:43] <lifeless> :P
[13:43] <lifeless> persia: thats loggerhead
[17:37] <mrooney> hello, I have noticed that sometimes multiple people are working on the same bug at once unknowingly (say bugsquaders on new bugs) and one person may make changes, then the other submits their changes, and stomps over the first person
[17:38] <mrooney> I was wondering if it might be possible to send along both the old and new value for each changed parameter, so launchpad could compare if the current value is what your submission thought was the old value, and if not, warn that it is changed since you loaded the page
[17:46] <Peng> The client only needs to send back the timestamp or ID of the last change, then the server can do the diffin.g
[17:47] <Peng> Bugzilla seems to be good about mid-air collisions.
[17:48] <mrooney> Peng: yeah, those solutions would work. Granted sending back the old info would allow better feedback for the user, to see what has changed and have a screen to show what is in conflict and give choices
[17:48] <mrooney> but, that would be a great improvement, just having a timestamp or id
[17:50] <Peng> No, what I mean is that the timestamp or ID is all that's needed for the server to be able to show all of that information.
[17:51] <mrooney> Peng: I see, you may be right
[17:51]  * Peng wanders off.
[17:51] <Peng> Bye. :)
[17:51] <mrooney> so, what is involved in having that done :)
[17:52] <Peng> Bribe the developers with muffins. :)
[17:52] <Peng> And anime.
[17:52]  * Peng wanders off.
[17:52]  * mrooney gets to work on anime-themed muffins
[21:56] <ianm_> jelmer: are you there/
[21:56] <jelmer> Hi ianm_
[21:57] <ianm_> jelmer: I'd like to talk to you about https://launchpad.net/gruler
[21:58] <ianm_> jelmer: that's you, no?
[21:58] <jelmer> ianm_: ? I registered the trunk branch, yes - it's owned by the gnome-bzr-mirror team
[21:58] <ianm_> jelmer: ok. well I'm the author of gruler
[21:59] <ianm_> jelmer: it is now known as screenruler and development is happening in launchpad bzr
[22:00] <ianm_> it's all quite confusing... there's gruler, screenruler, and screen-ruler
[22:00] <jelmer> Ah, ok
[22:00] <ianm_> https://launchpad.net/screen-ruler is the official page
[22:00] <jelmer> ianm_: We've simply registered all branches that existed in GNOME svn
[22:00] <ianm_> I would like to move that to https://launchpad.net/screenruler but someone just registered it
[22:00] <jelmer> ianm_: I don't have access to any of these launchpad pages unfortunately (just registered that branch)
[22:01] <ianm_> should I put in a Launchpad Answers request to remove it?
[22:01] <jelmer> Yeah, that would probably be the easiest way to get rid of the gruler page
[22:02] <jelmer> I've had the same problem with some other projects
[22:04] <jelmer> there were various GTK+ GUI's registered for bzr that were later merged
[22:04] <ianm_> who owns the https://launchpad.net/screenruler project?
[22:05] <ianm_> it just has a link to my blog/project page
[22:24] <ianm_> can a dev tell me who registered that project page (for MY project) so I can ask them if I can have it?
[22:25] <ianm_> or is that info somewhere?
[22:29] <LarstiQ> ianm_: https://edge.launchpad.net/~nitrofurano afaics
[22:29] <LarstiQ> ianm_: but it doesn't seem to be owned/driven by anyone atm
[22:30] <ianm_> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/36980
[22:30] <LarstiQ> ianm_: That should help
[22:31] <ianm_> this project now has three launchpad pages
[22:31] <ianm_> only one of them correct / owned by me
[22:31] <ianm_> sigh :)
[22:32] <LarstiQ> ianm_: you've filed a question, so it's trackable now.
[22:55] <lifeless> hi LarstiQ
[23:21] <LarstiQ> hi lifeless
[23:33] <lifeless> hi LarstiQ
[23:33] <lifeless> erm, lol, just did that
[23:33] <lifeless> more caffeine
[23:34] <epsy> hi
[23:38] <epsy> is there any way to use filters on bugs so that it shows only bugs that haven't been fixed ( open bugs minus fix committed ones )
[23:43] <YokoZar> I have a bug that was "marked for expiration 18 days ago" -- shouldn't launchpad janitor have made it invalid by now?
[23:45] <cody-somerville_> YokoZar, that was disabled.
[23:46] <YokoZar> cody-somerville_: oh...do I have to manually mark 50 expired bugs invalid now?
[23:46] <cody-somerville_> Preferably not.
[23:46] <cody-somerville_> Just leave them be unless they're *really* old
[23:49] <YokoZar> I'm pretty sure most are solved acutally (these are Wine bugs with applications, likely fixed in the newer Wine)
[23:52] <persia> YokoZar: Maybe you could poke the submitters to retest with the newer wine (assuming you don't have the relevant applications to replicate)?
[23:53] <YokoZar> persia: That's what I do; when I make the poke I mark the bug incomplete.  Some of these reports are now 90+ days old after having me asked that


[00:48] <davecheney> help, how do I fix this ?
[00:48] <davecheney> Error details:
[00:48] <davecheney> empty tools-url in environment configuration
[00:50] <davecheney> well, fuck
[00:50] <davecheney> % juju destroy-environment -y ap-southeast-2
[00:50] <davecheney> ERROR empty tools-url in environment configuration
[01:34] <wallyworld_> davecheney: um, not sure. is there a tools-url in the yaml?
[01:50] <davecheney> wallyworld_: i fixed it
[01:50] <davecheney> my working copy was old
[01:50] <wallyworld_> ah ok
[01:53] <davecheney> i got the thing I needed
[01:53] <davecheney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1227952
[01:53] <_mup_> Bug #1227952: juju get give a "panic: index out of range" error <regression> <goyaml:New> <juju-core:Confirmed for dave-cheney> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227952>
[01:53] <davecheney> yay yaml
[01:54] <wallyworld_> yay indeed
[01:56] <davecheney> ** Bug watch added: Go Issue Tracker #6761 http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=6761
[01:56] <davecheney> ^ I didn't know LP did this
[02:02] <davecheney> wallyworld_: http://play.golang.org/p/hedM5ozbo2
[02:02] <davecheney> simple repro
[02:03] <wallyworld_> can't find import: "launchpad.net/goyaml"
[02:03] <davecheney> yeah, won't work in the playground
[02:03] <davecheney> copy and paste it into a file
[02:04] <wallyworld_> well, that error does indeed suck
[02:05] <wallyworld_> at least it can be produced trivially
[02:05] <davecheney> is
[02:05] <davecheney> value: -
[02:05] <davecheney> valid yaml ?
[02:05] <davecheney> wallyworld_: could you try doing the same in python ?
[02:05] <wallyworld_> not sure
[02:05] <wallyworld_> ok
[02:05] <davecheney> ta
[02:11] <davecheney> wallyworld_: i fixed the bug, tests all pass
[02:11] <davecheney> by deleting code
[02:11] <davecheney> i'm not sure how gustavo will like that :)
[02:13] <wallyworld_> davecheney: ah, ok. good luck :-)
[02:16] <wallyworld_> davecheney: after i apt get installed a python yaml lib, python does seem to think it is valid fwiw
[02:16] <sinzui> davecheney, wallyworld_ We updated charm-tools proof a few weeks ago to check for valid yaml.
[02:17] <davecheney> sinzui: do you know if - has to be escaped in yaml ?
[02:17] <davecheney> ie
[02:17] <davecheney> output-file: -
[02:18] <sinzui> davecheney, It must be quoted when you don't mean list item
[02:19] <davecheney> right, so the charm is invalid ?
[02:20] <davecheney> g: Yes                     # a boolean True
[02:20] <davecheney> ^ oh for fucks sake yaml
[02:21] <davecheney> sinzui: i cannot find any think to say that values must be quited
[02:21] <davecheney> quoted
[02:25] <sinzui> Values do need to be quoted ":" must be in normal string values. dash is accepted at http://yaml-online-parser.appspot.com/
[02:26] <davecheney> sinzui: orly
[02:26] <davecheney> i used that validator and it said
[02:26] <davecheney> value: -
[02:26] <davecheney> sequence entries are not allowed here
[02:26] <davecheney>   in "<unicode string>", line 1, column 8:
[02:26] <davecheney>     value: -
[02:26] <davecheney> in short
[02:26] <davecheney> gotta quote it
[02:27] <sinzui> ah
[02:27] <sinzui>  but it you type
[02:27] <sinzui> value: this -that
[02:27] <sinzui> I think it is accepted
[02:27] <davecheney> yeah
[02:27] <davecheney> it's the bare hyphen that needs quoting
[02:28] <sinzui> yep
[02:28] <sinzui> value: nil
[02:28] <sinzui> is a problem not in yaml but is in our goyaml
[02:30] <davecheney>     wsgi_log_file:
[02:30] <davecheney>         type: string
[02:30] <davecheney>         default: "-"
[02:30] <davecheney>         description: "The log file to write to. If empty the logs would be handle by upstart."
[02:30] <davecheney> ^ the original yaml
[02:30] <davecheney> ah ha!
[02:30] <davecheney> ja'cuse
[02:30] <davecheney> this is correct
[02:30] <davecheney> when we format the data from juju get $SERVICE
[02:30] <davecheney> goyaml cocks it up
[02:30] <sinzui> davecheney, I see that wsgi_log_file: "-" is quoted in the current config.yaml
[02:31] <sinzui> ah we saw the same thig
[02:36] <davecheney> right, fixed
[02:36] <davecheney> MP incoming
[02:41] <davecheney> https://codereview.appspot.com/26430043
[02:41] <davecheney> oh crap
[02:41] <davecheney> it's nearly 2
[02:41] <davecheney> time for lunch
[05:31] <bigjools> if I know my charm needs certain constraints, can that be hard-coded in the charm such that juju will pick it up?
[05:32] <davecheney> bigjools: nope
[05:32] <bigjools> davecheney: bugger. worth a bug?
[05:32] <davecheney> sure
[05:33] <bigjools> ok ta
[05:33] <davecheney> i'm pretty sure this is by design
[05:33] <bigjools> oh?
[05:33] <bigjools> seems odd to me
[05:33] <davecheney> i didn't say it was a sensible design
[05:33] <bigjools> heh
[05:33] <davecheney> jam: ping
[05:33] <jam> davecheney: pong
[05:33] <davecheney> jam: you are an owner on goyaml, could I get a review https://codereview.appspot.com/26430043
[05:33] <davecheney> pls
[05:34] <jam> bigjools: we've talked about adding charm defined constraints in SFO, I don't know if/where it ended up on the schedule
[05:34] <bigjools> jam: ok, well I shall file a bug anyway for book-keeping
[05:35] <davecheney> jolly good
[05:35] <jam> davecheney: so the actual change is just len() ?
[05:36] <davecheney> jam: yup, the error was encode was detecting - as the start of a --- documented seperator
[05:36] <davecheney> and panicing when it ran off the end of the slice
[05:37] <davecheney> an altertive solution would be to delete line 1015-1017
[05:37] <jam> davecheney: so LGTM though if you have a bug related it would be good to associate it.
[05:37] <davecheney> bug is linked to the MP
[05:37] <jam> ah, it wasn't linked in the codereview which you linked me :)
[05:37] <davecheney> sorry
[05:37] <davecheney> lbox failed me
[05:37] <jam> joys of having double systems
[05:37] <davecheney> jam: can you please commit that for me
[05:38] <davecheney> i do not have permission
[05:45] <davecheney> jam: thanks for committing that
[05:47] <jam> davecheney: np, I'm glad I was able to submit it correctly for you :)
[05:48] <davecheney> jam: how can I target this bug to 1.16 stable ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/goyaml/+bug/1227952
[05:48] <_mup_> Bug #1227952: juju get give a "panic: index out of range" error <regression> <goyaml:Fix Committed by dave-cheney> <juju-core:Fix Committed by dave-cheney> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227952>
[05:48] <jam> There should be a "Target to series" underneath the existing bug targets
[05:49] <davecheney> I only get project and distro
[05:49] <davecheney> oh no wait
[05:49] <davecheney> reloading the page
[05:49] <davecheney> does somethine selse
[05:49] <jam> so going to the page probalby brought you to the goyaml version
[05:50] <davecheney> aaah
[05:50] <jam> you want the juju-core version at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1227952
[05:50] <jam> I think
[05:50] <_mup_> Bug #1227952: juju get give a "panic: index out of range" error <regression> <goyaml:Fix Committed by dave-cheney> <juju-core:Fix Committed by dave-cheney> <juju-core 1.16:Fix Committed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227952>
[05:50] <jam> davecheney: so, is an update to the goyaml dependency in the 1.16 branch?
[05:50] <jam> (or at least sinzui knows about it?)
[05:50] <jam> otherwise I'd mark it "In Progress"
[05:51] <davecheney> kk
[05:51] <davecheney> yeah, i nede to make sure sinzui knows that deps.tsv needs to be updated
[05:52] <davecheney> rogpeppe1: ping, need help with godeps
[05:54] <wallyworld_> jam: when we upgrade, and a config.New() is done by the juju upgrade command (client), do those config values get pushed to the server environment? in particular, if i delete a config value, will that value then be made to disappear from the server env config on the (old version) state server before the server side upgrade process starts?
[05:54] <wallyworld_> i didn't think that would happen, but maye it does
[05:55] <jam> wallyworld_: AFAIK when we upgrade nothing changes unless you put that code into the new version
[05:57] <wallyworld_> jam: that's what i thought, and yet it seems that if i delete tools-url from the config (in 1.17), then 1.16 servers complain they can't find it
[05:57] <axw> jam: there's a bug (?) in state that means no config attributes ever get removed from state
[05:57] <axw> err sorry, wallyworld_
[05:58] <wallyworld_> that's what i thought
[05:58] <wallyworld_> but there's an upgrade bug that seems to be caused by tools-url not being available when the 1.16 servers run the upgrade process. i'll test a bit more. gotta duck out to take my kid to the doctor. back later
[06:03] <jam> wallyworld_: my guess is that the original bootstrap *didn't* have a tools-url because it was using stock tools and so it didn't need it. Then "upgrade-juju" is running from an environment which has been edited to *add* tools-url but only locally.
[06:03] <jam> You probably need a "juju set-environment tools-url=XYZ; juju upgrade-juju"
[06:06] <axw> jam, wallyworld_: now that I think of it, this was one of the feature requests from IS at SFO
[06:06] <axw> atomic upgrade + set-env
[06:11] <jam> axw: I'm pretty sure they wanted it for charms, not for juju as a whole
[06:12] <axw> jam: ah yes, sorry, right you are
[06:17] <davecheney> https://code.launchpad.net/~dave-cheney/juju-core/161-update-goyaml-godep/+merge/195173
[06:18] <jam> davecheney: I just approved, but you seem to have a debug "fmt.Printf" in there
[06:24] <davecheney> jam: good catch
[06:24] <davecheney> that diff is dirty
[06:24] <davecheney> it shold only be the deps.tsv
[06:24] <davecheney> TIL, don't remove files from the bzr commit message, it doesn't care
[06:25] <jam> davecheney: no, it doesn't do anything. You have to specify it on the command line
[06:25] <jam> the listing in the message is just for you as the writer of the message
[06:25] <jam> I can see the draw, though.
[07:36] <jam> wallyworld_: when you're back, I've sorted through enough logs to feel like I have a handle on bug #1250974 but I need some feedback from you
[07:36] <_mup_> Bug #1250974: upgrade to 1.17.0 fails <ci> <regression> <upgrade-juju> <juju-core:In Progress by wallyworld> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1250974>
[07:37] <jam> the short summary: When you call "upgrade-juju" it marks the AgentVersion field by writing the entire EnvironConfig. However, our "write the config" code is just "add/update these fields to the dict".
[07:37] <jam> If you have an omitted entry, it *doesn't* touch it. (as noted by axw)
[07:37] <jam> so when you did patch r2053
[07:37] <jam> you changed tools-url:null into tools-url: ""
[07:37] <jam> which means that SetEnvironConfig({stuff, tools-url:null}) would not have touched that field
[07:37] <jam> well, I should say
[07:38] <jam> SetEnvironConfig({stuff, agent-version:"1.17.0", tools-url:null)
[07:38] <jam> but SetEnvironConfig({stuff, agent-version:"1.17.0", tools-url:""}) *does* wipe out the tools-url field.
[07:39] <jam> And note, upgrade-juju *does* read the remote environ config
[07:39] <jam> with conn.State.EnvironConfig()
[07:40] <jam> but that yaml is parsed by the local code
[07:40] <jam> so it strips out stuff it doesn't understand
[07:40] <jam> wallyworld_: so what I need to understand is why in r2053 did you need to switch from Omit (which would have it locally just ignored) to a default of "" which means we cause it to get overwritten.
[08:00] <dimitern> fwereade, if you're around - https://codereview.appspot.com/25080043/ from yesterday, when you can please
[08:03] <wallyworld_> jam: cause i got errors in some live tests
[08:04] <wallyworld_> oh bugger. dinner ready
[08:04] <wallyworld_> back soon
[08:14] <wallyworld_> jam: i did a live test on ec2, upgrade from 1.16 to 1.17, it worked ok, but i did it with the line which deletes tools-url from the config attrs map commented out
[08:15] <wallyworld_> i will test again with that line back in
[08:16] <wallyworld_> jam: what i was asking before was about whether config created on the new 1.17 client would overwrite config in the env state on the 1.16 node - you seem to imply it will overwrite?
[08:17] <jam> wallyworld_: yeah. so "set agent-version: NEWVERSION" is "read the config from remote, change that line, and write it back"
[08:17] <jam> but the "read from remote" parses it with the local structure
[08:17] <jam> write it back only update fields that exist in the thing we are writing
[08:17] <wallyworld_> ok, so the code in trunk should work then
[08:17] <jam> well, I could be wrong with the direct DB access
[08:17] <jam> well 2053 doesn't
[08:17] <jam> wallyworld_: is there a follow up later?
[08:17] <wallyworld_> cause i remove tools-url from the map
[08:18] <wallyworld_> so it should not overwrite the value in env sate
[08:18] <jam> wallyworld_: so *if* my understanding of SetEnvironConfig is true, then you're right
[08:18] <wallyworld_> and yet, if i remove the delet(attrs, "tools-url") line it works
[08:19] <wallyworld_> that's the only change i made from trunk before i tested
[08:19] <wallyworld_> i'll test again with trunk
[08:20] <wallyworld_> jam: to answer question above - no follow up yet to 2053
[08:39] <jam> wallyworld_: so looking at state/state.go SetEnvironConfig. It expects to have a config.Config that at least has an AgentVersion in it, but that appears to be the only thing it needs, and it only calls old.Update(new)
[08:40] <wallyworld_> i'm running another test, will look in more detail at that code in a sec
[08:41] <jam> wallyworld_: k. I'm thinking we *might* be able to get away with just creating a new Config that just has the fields we actually want to update, to sort of protect us in the future from other incompatible Config things.
[08:42] <wallyworld_> makes sense, would be more robust
[08:46] <fwereade> dimitern, reviewed, basically LGTM, one substantial question
[08:47] <fwereade> wallyworld_, jam: is it time to fix SetEnvironConfig? :/
[08:47] <wallyworld_> perhaps
[08:47] <wallyworld_> just confirming my theory about ause
[08:47] <jam> fwereade: well Dimiter is at least fixing Upgrade by going via the API and we can sort of do something better there.
[08:47] <wallyworld_> cause
[08:48] <fwereade> jam, yeah, there's SetEnvironAgentVersion already
[08:48] <jam> SetEnvironConfig is *almost* just taking a delta and applying it, so we could just make that explicit "UpdateEnvironConfig" and go from there.
[08:48] <fwereade> jam, but SetEnvironConfig itself is kinda broken by not-even-design
[08:48] <fwereade> jam, there's no way to remove fields but maybe that's not a serious problem?
[08:48] <dimitern> fwereade, thanks
[08:50] <jam> fwereade: well I mean write an UpdateEnvironConfig that would take an actual delta (maybe 1 map to add and a list to remove? Or 2 maps and we assert old and new values?)
[08:51] <fwereade> jam, yeah, that (probably the former) sounds sane
[08:51] <fwereade> jam, there is still the validity problem
[08:55] <dimitern> fwereade, I thought you suggested trying first the newest current and then next stable?
[08:56] <fwereade> dimitern, I don't *think* I did, but maybe -- did I say why?
[08:57] <fwereade> dimitern, I thought the logic was the other way round before, and I was *trying* to suggest just reversing the test but keeping the logic the same, so the preferred branch came first
[08:57] <dimitern> fwereade, something about "we should be always able to upgrade to a more recent current version"
[08:57] <dimitern> fwereade, ah, ok then - will change it to prefer next stable over current
[08:57] <fwereade> dimitern, that should always be a plausible fallback, but I *think* it makes most sense to go as far as we know we can
[08:57] <dimitern> fwereade, although it kinda makes sense to prefer current as it is
[08:58] <fwereade> dimitern, both do, don't they
[08:58] <dimitern> fwereade, that way we can upgrade as far as possible on the current one, and once there's no more recent current we'll automatically choose next stable
[08:59] <dimitern> fwereade, seems less intrusive
[08:59] <fwereade> dimitern, if you're on <IP_ADDRESS> and you use "--version 1.17", that'll keep you where you want to be, right?
[08:59] <fwereade> dimitern, otherwise I think we want people on the latest stable by default
[08:59]  * jam goes to get some lunch, back in a bit
[09:00] <dimitern> fwereade, ok
[09:00] <fwereade> dimitern, cheers
[09:00] <jam> fwereade: arguably what we want is an index on something.canonical.com that says "if you're at X go to Y"
[09:00] <jam> and then we can make the jumps whatever we've tested :)
[09:01] <fwereade> jam, that'd be a nice argument to have, but I think it's out of scope here
[09:02] <jam> fwereade: that way if we find a bug in 1.16.2 that prevents upgrading to 1.18.0, we can point you at 1.16.4 before you go to 1.18. But yeah, ESCOPE
[09:22] <wallyworld_> axw: do you have the bug number handy for the config attrs not being deleted?
[09:23] <axw> wallyworld_: nope, I'll do a quick search
[09:23] <wallyworld_> or i can, was just being lazy :-)
[09:23] <axw> wallyworld_: #1248809
[09:23] <_mup_> Bug #1248809: state.State.SetEnvironConfig never forgets <state-server> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248809>
[09:23] <wallyworld_> ta
[09:33] <axw> fwereade: no worries, we can chat about the bootstrap stuff tomorrow. I'll have to refresh my memory on what I did ;)
[09:33] <fwereade> axw, yeah, that was my problem with reviewing it, it demands an awful lot of context
[09:34] <fwereade> axw, I've been trying to think of how to split it, though,and it's not easy
[09:34] <axw> yeah, it's all related :(
[09:34] <axw> not the monolith I wanted
[09:34] <fwereade> dimitern, would you also take a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/14433058/ please? it's related to what you've been doing
[09:34] <fwereade> axw, haha
[09:36] <dimitern> fwereade, looking
[09:44]  * TheMue grumbles, has latest changes dislike him
[09:48] <axw> fwereade: if you didn't see, I simplified (I hope) the destroy-env CL: https://codereview.appspot.com/22870045/
[09:49] <axw> it now rejects an attempt to destroy-env while there are manual non-manager machines
[10:00] <rogpeppe1> jam: i just posted a query to https://codereview.appspot.com/26430043/ - it looks slightly questionable to me, but that's only from a naive p.o.v.
[10:01] <fwereade> axw, ah, thanks, I'll check it out
[10:02] <jam> fwereade: team meeting
[10:02] <jam> mgz^^
[10:02] <jam> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/bWFyay5yYW1tLWNocmlzdGVuc2VuQGNhbm9uaWNhbC5jb20.09gvki7lhmlucq76s2d0lns804
[10:34] <wallyworld_> fwereade: jam: if you guys could take another look at my updated merge proposals from yesterday that would be muchly appreciated
[10:42] <jam> (14:41:31) jam: fwereade: good job sorting out the backporting of destroy-machine --force, your coverletter shows a lot of convoluted steps
[10:42] <jam> (14:42:01) jam: axw: if you're around for a bit, I'm interested in chatting about the manual teardown stuff
[10:42] <jam> (I meant them in this channel)
[10:42] <axw> sure
[10:43] <jam> axw: so. the question I had was is it possible to have the jujud/juju client generate the teardown when it is time to tear down, rather than at the time we create it
[10:43] <jam> axw: even once we have this, what happens if we upgrade 1.17 => 1.18
[10:43] <jam> could the teardown change?
[10:44] <axw> jam: ah, right. hmm... not really, because it's an agent-level thing?
[10:45] <axw> sorry, just a minute
[10:46] <dimitern> blast
[10:47] <axw> jam: I think I misunderstood, I thought you meant from the client side. one of the reasons why it's difficult to do at runtime is because, for example, the juju-db job isn't known to the machine-agent
[10:47] <dimitern> what happened to the weekly meeting?
[10:47] <jam> dimitern: we did it
[10:47] <jam> Daylightsavings time and all
[10:47] <dimitern> ah, sorry
[10:47] <jam> it was at 10:00 UTC
[10:47] <jam> we went pretty fast
[10:48] <dimitern> jam, did I miss anything important?
[10:48] <jam> dimitern: we're making you do all the work this week for missing the meeting :)
[10:49] <dimitern> jam, sweet :)
[10:49] <jam> dimitern: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1eeHzbtyt_4dlKQMof-vRfplMWMrClBx32k6BFI-77MI not a lot. Mostly talked about release planning
[10:49] <dimitern> jam, thanks!
[10:51] <axw> jam: sorry, family's home - I need to help with the kids
[10:51] <axw> mind if we chat about it tomorrow?
[10:51] <jam>  axw: I won't be around tomorrow, but you can chat with a different reviewer then :)
[10:52] <jam> enjoy your family time
[10:52] <axw> ok
[10:52] <axw> thanks
[10:52] <axw> have a nice weekend
[11:06] <wallyworld_> jam: https://codereview.appspot.com/26550043/
[11:06] <wallyworld_> fix for tools-url
[11:07] <jam> wallyworld_: yeah, I was thinking about the reverse problem, someone used an old 1.16 to bootstrap, and then tries to upgrade to 1.17. They won't have tools-metadata-url set (though I'm guessing your compat code would have migrated it anyway?)
[11:08] <wallyworld_> yeah, the original code did migrate it
[11:09] <wallyworld_> jam: and the previous public-bucket-url deprecation - the bucket value could be removed from config because the tools url that was set up overrode it. but this case is subtley different
[11:10] <jam> wallyworld_: did you do live testing ?
[11:10] <wallyworld_> yep
[11:10] <wallyworld_> before i did the patch :-)
[11:10] <wallyworld_> well, before  i did the tests
[11:10] <jam> wallyworld_: I would hope that your live testing was of the patch :)
[11:10] <wallyworld_> yeah, i meant i made sure it worked before doing the unit tests
[11:25] <jam> wallyworld_: if you didn't see the email LGTM
[11:25] <wallyworld_> thanks jam
[11:25] <wallyworld_> doing one final test
[11:36] <wallyworld_> jam: there's a separate issue. if you start a 1.16 system without *any* tools url, then add one to your config (cause 1.17 tools are elsewhere) and try to upgrade, the server side does not find any 1.17 tools. but that's more a separate corner case, not a blocker
[11:36] <wallyworld_> the juju client doesn't complain though when firing off the upgrade
[11:36] <wallyworld_> which it would if the client could not find the 1.17 tools
[11:37] <jam> wallyworld_: from what I've seen it won't try to find the tools, because it *is* smart enough to ignore your local tools-url and read the remote one.
[11:37] <jam> wallyworld_: are you sure?
[11:37] <wallyworld_> i am pretty sure
[11:37] <jam> the code I see in "cmd/juju/upgradejuju.go" first uses conn.State.EnvironConfig()
[11:37] <jam> it doesn't use the local EnvConfig
[11:37] <wallyworld_> but i may have made a mistake testing
[11:39] <wallyworld_> ffs, i've cleared my scrollback buffer. so can't check for sure without re-testing. will do it tomorrow
[11:39] <wallyworld_> at least curtis' issue is fixed
[14:17] <hazmat>  do we have godoc output for juju-core available/extant anywhere?
[14:19] <mgz> only insofaras you can build/serve it out of the branch I think, hazmat
[14:19] <mgz> not seperately hosted anywhere
[14:19] <hazmat> hmm.. hard to ref the api docs for third parties if we don't publish our docs.
[14:21] <sinzui> wallyworld_, jam: did we intentionally change dependencies.tsv to be space delimited, not tab?
[14:21] <mgz> it would be nice to bundle it into a build process for the juju.ubuntu.com docs
[14:22] <mgz> sinzui: looks like it's still tabs to me...
[14:23] <sinzui> mgz, wallyworld_'s goyaml line uses spaces!
[14:23] <mgz> ah, that's likely an error from that update then
[14:23] <sinzui> CI is down. I think godeps doesn't support spaces either
[14:24] <mgz> it does not.
[14:25] <mgz> I can propose or lgtm a fix for that if it'd help curtis
[14:27] <sinzui> mgz, I can propose the fix if you can review it
[14:27] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: is this close to your wishes regarding ensure-ha? i've written the docs as if it was completely done, so we have an idea where we're going, although we won't implement all of it to start with (e.g. prefer-machines, no-destroy)
[14:27] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6416040/
[14:29] <TheMue> hazmat: http://godoc.org/launchpad.net/juju-core
[14:30] <mgz> TheMue: oo, lookit dat
[14:31] <hazmat> TheMue, thanks
[14:32] <mgz> TheMue: that seems to be lacking lots of doc things though
[14:33] <TheMue> mgz: indeed, we don't have many package docs
[14:34] <mgz> or ah, I see, without enough magic it just omits things. stuff like instance/address.go is actually quite well covered
[14:35] <natefinch> mgz: we aren't following convention in a bunxch of things.  we should fix that.  Godoc is the Go standard
[14:38] <rogpeppe1> mgz: what specific things are you thinking we're missing?
[14:38] <rogpeppe1> mgz: (doc-wise, that is)
[14:40]  * rogpeppe1 goes for some lunch
[14:46] <natefinch> rogpeppe1, mgz: this is kind of unconscionable:  http://godoc.org/launchpad.net/juju-core/cmd/juju
[14:47] <mgz> rogpeppe1: I was just looking at some random packages. the provider ones are pretty sparse
[14:52] <TheMue> natefinch, mgz: displaying the import chars is sometimes wild
[14:53] <TheMue> eh, s/chars/graphs/
[14:58]  * TheMue => lunch
[15:00] <natefinch> mgz, TheMue, rogpeppe1:  how to do it right: http://godoc.org/github.com/natefinch/gocog  :)
[15:15] <sinzui> mgz, do you have time to review https://codereview.appspot.com/26370044
[15:29] <TheMue> natefinch: or http://godoc.org/git.tideland.biz/gocn or http://godoc.org/git.tideland.biz/godm etc
[15:29] <TheMue> natefinch: ;)
[15:32] <natefinch> TheMue: yeah... my specific point was that our command (the juju client executable) doesn't have any godocs.  But yes, nicely done.  I really like that it's so easy to write docs for Go, and how standard they are, that when they're missing, it's a glaring deficiency.
[15:35] <TheMue> natefinch: +1
[15:38] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: agreed. we should probably have some preprocessor that generates godoc output from the standard help commands.
[15:39] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: and also there's the fact that packages with a package comment in the right style get rated higher in godoc
[15:39] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: which might well be good for our general visibility
[15:39] <mgz> sinzui: approved
[15:39] <sinzui> thank you mgz
[15:45] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: ping
[16:09] <sinzui> rogpeppe1, was ths fix for this bug just to gomass? Could I update  the 1.16 branch to use that dep to release a fix? https://bugs.launchpad.net/gomaasapi/+bug/1222671
[16:09] <_mup_> Bug #1222671: Using the same maas user in different juju environments causes them to clash <cts-cloud-review> <maas-provider> <Go MAAS API Library:Fix Committed> <juju-core:Fix Committed by thumper> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222671>
[16:09] <rogpeppe1> sinzui: looking
[16:10] <rogpeppe1> sinzui: do you have a reference for the merge proposal that fixed it?
[16:10] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, pong, sorry, happened while I was joining a meeting
[16:10] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: np
[16:10] <sinzui> rogpeppe1, I don't :(
[16:11] <rogpeppe1> sinzui: i'm pretty sure it's a maas-only bug
[16:11] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: i wonder if you could pass your eyes over this for sanity checking. i'm trying to stick closely to what you have been suggesting. http://paste.ubuntu.com/6416040/
[16:12]  * fwereade looks
[16:13] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: that's my take at a complete description. obviously we won't implement it all to start with.
[16:16] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, for a complete spec, I think you convinced me that we do want to be able to demote rather than destroy a non-functioning manager
[16:16] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: how do you propose we do that?
[16:17] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, well, it does irritatingly involve watching jobs -- but if we have prefer-machines we need that anyway
[16:17] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, do you mean inside state?
[16:17] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, we remove the appropriate jobs from the problematic machine in the same transaction we bring up the new one -- am I being obtuse?
[16:18] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: that seems possible, but does mean we have to do dynamic jobs in the machine agent now rather than later
[16:19] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: also, it's not clear to me that just because a state server's network connection has been down for more than 3 minutes that we should take it out of action indefinitely
[16:19] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, or, at least, the job that maintains mongo needs to keep an eye on whether it still should and exit without error if it doesn't
[16:19] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, indeed, this is the source of my resistance to the *automatic* failover of state
[16:20] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, I expect some degree of human judgment to be applied
[16:20] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: so if you happen to run ensure-ha and a server happens to have been down for more than 3 minutes, then the logic triggers
[16:22] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, yes
[16:22] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: there's another question: when do we actually add and remove machines to/from the set of mongo peers?
[16:24] <natefinch> fwereade, rogpeppe1:  it seems like there's a difference between automatic failover and automatic replacement of machines.  Failover has to be automatic, otherwise it's useless.  But maybe that's just me nitpicking semantics.
[16:24] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, as soon as we can, I think?
[16:24] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, natefinch: yeah, I used the word "failover" intemperately above
[16:24] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: we need an agent to do it, because we can't necessarily do it until the machines come up
[16:25] <natefinch> fwereade: ok, I thought so, but just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding
[16:26] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: i'm thinking that it's that agent that can be responsible for being the last word in making sure that mongo has an odd number of peers
[16:26] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: the state machines in state are only an aim - they don't necessarily reflect reality
[16:27] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, sure -- it's that target set of peers that I want hard guarantees about
[16:27] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: right
[16:27] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, the fact that the rest of reality has to converge is inescapable
[16:27] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: well actually, i think we want guarantees about the *actual* set of peers too, as much as possible
[16:28] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: so, for instance, if you start two new state servers and only one comes up, what should we do then?
[16:28] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: i'm thinking that we don't add either of them as peers until they both come up (or we might possibly consider adding the first one as non-voting peer)
[16:30] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, yeah, the agent's job has subtleties -- there surely is a meaningful distinction between never-came-up and went-down-unexpectedly
[16:32] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: indeed, and perhaps that's something that needs to be stored in state
[16:33] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: i'm wondering if the agent should announce its state in its machine somehow, so we have a permanent record that it actually came up
[16:33] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: BTW i've discovered that each mongo peer caches the addresses of its peers
[16:34] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, that might be sensible, I don;t have a strong opinion at the moment
[16:34] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: which makes life a little easier for us, although we'll still need to cache the API addresses.
[16:35] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, ah yes :)
[16:36] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: one possibility is that the machine agent can store (perhaps amongst other info) the port that its mongo server is listening on. that gives us the potential freedom at some point in the future, to host state servers where not all the servers in an environment are listening on the same port.
[16:37] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, I'm not sure I see the use case there tbh
[16:38] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: it means that you can host state servers on machines that are hosting other state servers, without having to try to choose an arbitrary port that noone is already using.
[16:39] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: it also means that if someone happens to have a service that's using the juju port, and they want to host a state server on that node, that they can do that
[16:40] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: it seems like a potentially useful piece of flexibility - it's easy to add right now, but perhaps not so easy in the future.
[16:41] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: it's also potentially useful for testing
[16:41] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, multiple state servers per machine does not really seem like something we want to encourage... except, hm, indeed, in a testing context
[16:42] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: i don't see why multiple state servers (for different environments) on a single machine should be a particular problem
[16:42] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: are you thinking just from a load perspective?
[16:43] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, I'm thinking from an "isn't that just a parallel multitenant implementation" perspective
[16:43] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: well, kinda, but there are various reasons that you might not want them as peers inside the same state server
[16:45] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, and that'd be allowed by the env setting anyway, right?
[16:45] <rogpeppe1> fwereade: what would, sorry?
[16:46] <fwereade> rogpeppe1, mutiple envs' state servers on the same hardware if people *really* wanted to do that
[16:47]  * fwereade quick ciggie before next meeting, response rate will slow down a bit
[17:53] <TheMue> fwereade: thx for your review, I think I've got now covered most of it
[17:53] <TheMue> fwereade: next step is live testing
[18:29] <rogpeppe> natefinch: here's a collection of slightly more thought-through details on the ensure-ha stuff - just the parts that are directly concerned with starting and stopping state servers. http://paste.ubuntu.com/6417151/
[18:29] <rogpeppe> fwereade: you might want to take a look at the above for sanity checking
[18:30] <rogpeppe> and with that i must heed the call from downstairs
[18:30] <rogpeppe> g'night all
[18:30] <natefinch> rogpeppe: where did prefer-machines come from?  That seems too... squishy.    Like "Hey, you know, if you feel like, try to get the state servers over there, if you don't mind."
[18:30] <natefinch> rogpeppe: night, I'll read up
[18:30] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it was fwereade's suggestion
[18:30] <natefinch> rogpeppe: I'll complain to him then ;)
[18:30] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i'm trying very hard to be non-controversial
[18:30] <rogpeppe> natefinch: yes
[18:31] <rogpeppe> natefinch: g'night
[18:50] <sinzui> natefinch, do you have a few minutes to review https://codereview.appspot.com/24280044
[18:52] <natefinch> sinzui: sure thing.  I like the easy ones
[18:53] <natefinch> sinzui: looks kinda buggy, but I guess I can give it the LGTM
[18:53] <sinzui> it is?
[18:53] <natefinch> sinzui: a joke.  It's two characters, changing a 3 to 4 :)
[18:54] <sinzui> natefinch, I am humour challenged today. I saw CI make a 1.16.3 release thought, oops, they better not ever get out into the wild
[18:58] <natefinch> sinzui: ahh,  apologies.  Glad it got caught.
[22:38] <davecheney> rogpeppe1: good news!
[22:38] <davecheney> the reflect issue in gccgo isn't as bad as everyone things
[22:39] <rogpeppe1> davecheney: i heard that
[22:40] <rogpeppe1> davecheney: only struct{}
[22:41] <davecheney> yup
[22:41] <davecheney> it will be straight forward to fix
[22:41] <axw__> fwereade: a bit late your time? do you want to chat your morning instead?


 Notifications - Systems Settings : the popup doesn't follow the custom position .. any idea?
[14:07] <BluesKaj> Hi all
 that would maybe work if I could boot at all. (re @IrcsomeBot: <mmikowski> RikMills: Cool. ahoneybun: you can drop a file in /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d to set kernel compression level, although I do like the 800x600 solution for the grub menu as well.)
 Well if I had an install then boot from a live disk to access that install.
[18:28] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: Where are you at with bug 1965439? It's pretty ancient and I'm not sure you ever did the upload? Also, do you want to do the SRU on bug 2002025 or should I?
[18:28] -ubottu:#kubuntu-devel- Bug 1965439 in kubuntu-settings (Ubuntu Jammy) "[SRU] kdesu fails to authenticate with sudo from Jammy" [High, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1965439
[18:28] -ubottu:#kubuntu-devel- Bug 2002025 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu Kinetic) "Roboto break with hintfull hintstyle" [Undecided, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2002025
[22:47] <mmikowski> ahoneybun: Hi Aaron. Well that sucks! :P Here's a few ideas, and I apologize if this is redundant. 1. Try adding GFXMODE=800x600. 2. Use rescue mode per comment 44. Best of luck!


 Crostini booted, but then when I clicked terminal it would launch the icon, spin for a bit, then stop and go away.  😕
 Disabled and reenabled. It's working fine!
 Whoohoo!  Chrome is now the OS that runs more apps than any other in history.
 My first install was "sl".
 @AdamOutler, It has been true for some time. Technically you can do the same with Windows/Linux or MacOS but ChromeOS is the only that has official support for all of the OSs without needing to install any third party software
 Nope.  Not on mine.  Just got the update @KMyers 😀
 i should have just waited for it to come out on the acer, lol
 @AdamOutler, What device did you get?
 It's a last year Acer c610?  It has a dual core Intel.
 I don't know the model
 Ok. Not bad at all
 It's bad.   I wouldn't use it but it does my kids homework and web games.
 Ssh in a pinch
 Celeron and slow storage.
 I am hoping they make a Pixelbook V2
 My pixel 2 just got the call screening feature.
 I don't need a pixel 3 now.
 Did you guys see this Meetup? … Pre Turkey Rooftop Yoga - With LuluLemon & Ironhack (Free!) … Ironhack Miami: Learn to Code + Design … Tuesday, 6:30 PM Nov 20
 There are 5 programming related meetups this week.
 Nice but I am currently 1200 miles away
 What is the benefit of using redhat over Ubuntu?
 Dnf maybe is my immediate thought
 Dnf?  Did not finish?
 My work wants me to use redhat for a server.  Redhat has licensing fees and then also fees for virtualization, then more fees for the redhat VMs license.  I'm just trying to figure out what RedHat provided that is not provided by canonical.
 CentOS gives the best RedHat experience without the license
 I'm trying to figure out what the advantage is of RedHat.  It appears that nobody has ever challenged the paradigm.  Is there a reason for red hat?
 There are a few things it used to do better when it came to servers but that gap has been closed for years
 It's so expensive.
 I don't think the industry has evolved. They see Red Hat as the only "Enterprise" option and the rest is just a toy for neck beards and hackers
 @AdamOutler, The historical/transactional reverses etc that can be tied easily into playbooks or some such. I'm sure other distros have an equivalent. Guess for Enterprise it just boils down to support contacts
 Iirc, yum also has that feature
 I can also imagine the resistant to change thing
 Years of a shop running distro X, and distro Y breaks legacy scripts nobody knows how to support
 That's more a corporate thing than a distro viability thing though
 The same reason nobody runs ipv6 I'd wager.
[20:33] <maxolasersquad> I definitely think it has to do with market penetration and familiarity. Familiarity with a technology drives a lot of IT decisions over the best product for the problem.
[20:33] <maxolasersquad> I think companies that are younger and have a younger group of employees are more likely to implement Debian based distros.
[20:34] <maxolasersquad> The licensing simplicity of Ubuntu is a huge advantage over Redhat, IMHO.
[20:34] <maxolasersquad> I can run Ubuntu and spin up instances all night and day with ease, and then finally deploy to my production Ubuntu box that looks identical to all of my other Ubuntu instances across the board.


[00:00] <jamesstansell> will the 6u3 debs be added to the feisty repository?
[22:09] <eggeral> hi, I am trying to get java 5 working on ubuntu sparc. no luck till now. Any ideas around?
[22:17] <leonel> what errors you have ?    btw  I'm not a sparc user ..


[04:52] <sabdfl> nd?
[04:52] <sabdfl> ww
[04:53] <sabdfl> but while i'm here, how are you all?
[18:30]  * larsu wonders why gsettings-qt tests fail in dpkg-buildpackage but not when running `make check` directly
[18:30] <larsu> QXcbConnection: Could not connect to display
[18:31] <larsu> (it depends on X only because libqt5quicktest5 does)
[22:15] <Guest55222> hello


[02:34] <micahg> zequence: I assume that the kernel team is still reviewing your uploads?  I'm happy to sponsor packages you prepare, but they still need sponsorship until you apply to the DMB for upload rights
[07:09] <zequence> micahg: Yes, apw always checks them before uploading them, I guess he checks the changelog and diff
[07:10] <smartboyhw_> Hello zequence, how are ya?
[07:11] <zequence> smartboyhw_: Fine. A little annoyed with weathe reporters, as they can't seem to make up their minds
[07:12] <smartboyhw_> zequence: LOL.  How often do you go to IKEA?
[07:18] <zequence> smartboyhw_: Only if I need to buy cheap furniture
[07:18] <zequence> nowadays you can find IKEA just about anywhere
[07:19] <zequence> I live in Sweden, but I'm not Swedish
[07:19] <zequence> I'm Finnish
[07:19] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Oh. In HK IKEA is VERY popular.
[07:20] <smartboyhw_> zequence: You should go back to Finland and visit astraljava;P
[07:20] <smartboyhw_> And probably knome
[07:20] <zequence> Yeah, that would be fun. I should also visit my grand mother
[07:22] <smartboyhw_> zequence: :)
[07:23] <zequence> She's living in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savonia_%28historical_province%29
[07:23] <smartboyhw_> zequence, don't give me Finnish history to study:P
[07:24] <smartboyhw_> Nor Swedish
[07:24] <zequence> It's not really history, as the region still exists
[07:24] <zequence> Just like in any country, you have different regions
[07:25] <zequence> This is called Savonia
[07:25] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Or rather, don't give me Finnish Geography to read
[07:27] <zequence> smartboyhw_: No need to be rude
[07:28] <smartboyhw_> zequence: I'm not rude.
[07:28] <smartboyhw_> Just that my Geography isn't as good as science subjects
[07:29] <smartboyhw_> And our History teacher just doesn't seem to be able to control our class (every class in fact
[07:29] <zequence> That's too bad. Science will only teach you how to count. History will teach you why to count
[07:31] <smartboyhw_> zequence: …
[07:32] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Science is good for me :P
[08:28]  * smartboyhw needs to beat his classmates into pieces...
[10:28] <smartboyhw> zequence: I came to think of it, between October 2013 and January 2014 you will be maintaining 4 kernels:O
[10:30] <smartboyhw> Add oil
[12:18] <smartboyhw> Hello!
[12:19] <madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : Hi : )
[12:19] <smartboyhw> Hey madeinkobaia
[12:21] <madeinkobaia> :)
[12:28] <smartboyhw> All: The Saucy Salamander archive is open!
[13:53] <smartboyhw_> Hello DarkEra
[13:53] <DarkEra> hi smartboyhw_
[14:37] <smartboyhw> zequence: I renamed the SReleaseSchedule wiki page to SaucyReleaseSchedule and pointed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DevelopmentReleaseSchedule at it
[14:59] <micahg> zequence: I'd like to see you apply for Studio upload rights this cycle, but you'd probably need to do a bit more with the general packageset
[15:00]  * smartboyhw agrees with micahg
[15:01] <smartboyhw> zequence: Become a full-fledged developer:)
[15:02] <micahg> upload rights are not a barrier to contribution
[15:03] <smartboyhw> micahg: I do think that so-called "Ubuntu Developers" should be called "Ubuntu uploaders" or sth like that
[15:03] <smartboyhw> Of course upload rights wasn't a barrier
[15:48] <zequence> micahg: What's required? Becoming a MOTU?
[15:49] <micahg> zequence: no, just a packageset uplaoder for ubuntustudio
[15:49] <micahg> http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/saucy/ubuntustudio
[15:50] <micahg> hrm, automake in a flavor packageset seems wrong..
[15:50] <zequence> :)
[15:51] <zequence> micahg: So, how do I go about to apply for it?
[15:51] <micahg> it's becuase isdntools is out of sync...
[15:51] <micahg> zequence: well, first you need experience working with the packageset, AFAIK, you've just been working on the kernel and the ubuntustudio-* packages
[15:52] <micahg> so, I'd suggest working on merges/updates for some of the packageset to show you're familiar with Debian packaging
[15:54] <micahg> open merges are here: https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html , you can ask the person who touched it last (as listed) if they mind you doing the merge, then you just get it sponsored when you're done'
[15:54] <micahg> that's all of universe (there's a multiverse page as well)
[15:55] <micahg> so, you'll need to just pick the studio packages (well, you can work on whatever you want, but studio packages will help for studio more than others)
[15:55] <zequence> micahg: Ok. Thanks. I'll get busy doing that this cycle than.


[05:55] <jabberwocky93> more Kilos :)
[05:58] <Kilos>  morning jabberwocky93  Cantide  Spekko  superfly  and others too
[05:58] <Cantide> hi!
[05:58] <Cantide> long time no chat!
[05:58] <Kilos> yeah
[05:58] <Cantide> how goes it, oom Kilos ? '-';;
[05:58] <superfly> Morning Kilos
[05:58] <Kilos> good ty and you?
[05:58] <Cantide> hey superfly ~
[05:58] <Cantide> Kilos, very well, thanks :)
[05:59] <Cantide> got my PC at last
[05:59] <Cantide> got a girlfriend
[05:59] <Cantide> got 2 jobs
[05:59] <Cantide> been busy T-T
[05:59] <Kilos> great
[06:00] <Cantide> what have you been up to?
[06:00] <Kilos> just playing here
[06:00] <Kilos> oh and over a week of flu
[06:01] <Cantide> 'o'
[06:01]  * Cantide sends Kilos some 유자차
[06:01] <nuvolari> oh hi
[06:01] <nuvolari> o/
[06:02] <Kilos> hi nuvolari
[06:02] <jabberwocky93> o/
[06:03] <Cantide> hello nuvolari :)
[06:04] <Spekko> morning Kilos
[06:09] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[06:10] <magespawn> hi Kilos
[06:37] <magespawn> back again
[06:37] <magespawn> Maaz coffee on
[06:37]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[06:37] <magespawn> Maaz large please
[06:37] <Maaz> magespawn: Huh?
[06:37] <Kilos> Maaz  coffee please
[06:37] <Maaz> Kilos: Done
[06:37] <magespawn> Maaz coffee please
[06:37] <Maaz> magespawn: Now now, we don't want anyone getting caffeine overdoses
[06:37] <magespawn> Maaz large
[06:37] <Maaz> In a beer mug just for you magespawn
[06:37] <magespawn> Maaz ty
[06:37] <Maaz> You are welcome magespawn
[06:37] <Kilos> hehe
[06:38] <magespawn> i think i am going to need it today
[06:38] <Kilos> why whats different
[06:39] <ThatGraemeGuy> People with SSL certs to manage, hope you've seen this: http://heartbleed.com
[06:41] <Kilos> ai!
[06:41] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for magespawn and Kilos!
[06:41] <Kilos> Maaz  ty
[06:41] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[06:46] <inetpro> good mornings
[06:46] <Kilos> morning inetpro
[07:16] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[07:20] <Cantide> I can never make the meetings here T-T
[07:20] <Cantide> too late for me
[07:22] <Kilos> you in bed so early?
[07:22] <Kilos> half pas 8 till half past nine
[07:25] <Cantide> plus 7 hours for me
[07:25] <Cantide> and i get up at 05:30 each day...
[07:25] <Kilos> where are you?
[07:25] <Cantide> South Korea ?
[07:26] <Cantide> I've been here for 6 months already :p
[07:26] <Kilos> oh ya
[07:26] <Kilos> well you can read the logs and then mail comments to the list
[07:26] <Cantide> yeah...
[07:26] <Cantide> when i have time :)
[07:26] <Cantide> excited for 14.04
[07:27] <Cantide> thinking of buying a new drive for it
[07:27] <Kilos> ive tried it live
[07:27] <Kilos> the beta
[07:29] <Cantide> how is it?
[07:30] <Cantide> looks like a good release to me
[07:30] <Cantide> worth reinstalling for!
[07:30] <Kilos> yeah
[07:30] <Cantide> i'm still on 12.04 anyway :p so it will be nice to get it
[07:30] <Kilos> id try it first
[07:30] <Cantide> i'll install it and see :)
[07:30] <Cantide> thinking of buying a new drive, so it won't matter
[07:30] <Kilos> has lots of personalizing to do
[07:31] <Kilos> yeah on a new drive is good
[07:31] <Vince-0> o//
[07:31] <Kilos> im also on 12.04
[07:31] <Cantide> i
[07:31] <Cantide> i've still got my SSD which is nearly 2 years old
[07:31] <Cantide> and it's only a 120 GiB
[07:31] <Cantide> so i'll get a new drive, install 14.04, copy my data and then install Windows on this drive (ewwww)
[07:32] <Kilos> lol
[07:36] <Cantide> bye bye~
[07:36] <Cantide> back to work for me!
[07:47] <Kilos> hi psyatw
[07:48] <psyatw> hi Kilos
[08:13] <magespawn> lets hope i can stay
[08:13] <Kilos> lol
[08:57] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy  superfly
[08:57] <superfly> again, Kilos?
[09:00] <Kilos> oh sorry superfly
[09:28] <Kilos> hi Golynx
[09:29] <Golynx> Hi Kilos
[09:29] <Kilos> you winning?
[09:29] <Golynx> winning what ?
[09:29] <Kilos> with what you are doing man
[09:30] <Kilos> like are you becoming an ubuntero
[09:30] <Golynx> Nope, Epic Fail! :p
[09:30] <Kilos> what you failing with
[09:30] <Golynx> i need windows , yes its sad
[09:31] <Golynx> i wont be successful without it.
[09:31] <Kilos> can you wait another month or so
[09:31] <Kilos> and is xp ok
[09:33] <Golynx> 40% of the software i use will work with Xp, but most is made for 7
[09:33] <Golynx> but xp is okay
[09:33] <Kilos> as soon as i get some cash ill send xp
[09:34] <Golynx> thanks Kilos :)
[09:34] <not_found> note that support for xp is no-more except if you have some business arangement with MS
[09:34] <not_found> I think today is the day it ends
[09:34] <Kilos> did anyone ever use their support
[09:35] <not_found> updates etc.
[09:35] <not_found> eol
[09:35] <not_found> you use you will get exploited (more than normal)
[09:36] <Kilos> xp is lekker for modem tools
[09:48] <Kilos> Maaz  wb
[09:48] <Maaz> Thank you so much Kilos my good good friend
[11:07] <jabberwocky93> just for anyway who has not been informed of the openssl security issue: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/openssl-heartbleed-security-bug/2014/04/08
[11:24] <Vince-0> test here: http://filippo.io/Heartbleed/
[11:29] <Kilos> what server hostname you put in there Vince-0
[11:31] <Vince-0> the one you want to test the vulnerability for
[11:33] <Kilos> ah i see. it says google.com is all good
[11:41] <Symmetria> http://blog.existentialize.com/diagnosis-of-the-openssl-heartbleed-bug.html
[11:42] <Symmetria> interesting
[14:47] <Kilos> poor jabber.org sick again
[14:52] <Kilos> wbb
[14:55] <Kilos> nfo] Trying to reconnect to chat.freenode.net (port 6667) in 10 seconds.
[14:55] <Kilos> [16:53] [error] Closing Link: 8ta-151-215-171.telkomadsl.co.za (Sorry, server is full - try later)
[14:55] <Kilos> oh my
[16:43] <Kilos> lol
[16:59] <Kilos> hi adeebnqo
[17:00] <adeebnqo> hey
[17:00] <adeebnqo> how u doin?
[17:06] <Kilos> good ty and you?
[17:06] <Golynx> hey adeebnqo
[17:08] <adeebnqo> i'm great --- just a bit frustrated, i'm playing around with the (NM)DC protocol in python
[17:22] <Kilos> (NM)DC?
[17:22] <Kilos> hi psydroid
[17:23] <psydroid> hi Kilos
[17:23] <Golynx> hi psydroid
[17:25] <adeebnqo> the original direct connect protocol.