[19:14] <asac> ogra_: thanks :)
[19:14] <ogra_> rickspencer3, well, i'm not talking about click at all
[19:14] <rickspencer3> let's not dig deeper with click packages
[19:14] <rickspencer3> ogra_, I know
[19:14] <ogra_> more about the whole infrastructure
[19:14] <rickspencer3> I know and agree
[19:14] <cjwatson> beuno: using an app store entirely over HTTPS should help with that, but these considerations can be pretty subtle and if we're going to permit downgrades then I think somebody needs to analyse it
[19:14] <asac> big challenge
[19:14] <rickspencer3> this has been a pain point for me for years
[19:14] <asac> thats why we have a team now :_)
[19:14] <ogra_> asac, nah, just work and some proper planning :)
[19:14] <asac> right
[19:15] <asac> well. not so sure about that
[19:15] <rsalveti> asac: sure, but I'm just saying that expecting no bugs by FF is kind of against the FF itself
[19:15] <ogra_> stoppping smoking is a challenge ... improving rollback mechanisms is just work :)
[19:15] <rsalveti> we have FF so we can have fully working features
[19:15] <rsalveti> better tested and etc
[19:15] <asac> rsalveti: FF is something we should forget when we think about landing stuff
[19:15] <plars> asac, balloons: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/saucy/image/3785/ that looks a little nicer :)
[19:16] <rsalveti> asac: I agree, but that seems not to be the case for people planning stuff
[19:16] <rsalveti> managers and such
[19:16] <ogra_> asac, nope, we should land our stuff before FF
[19:16] <ogra_> which would have worked fine was this a normal release
[19:16] <asac> rsalveti: i think its more within your team than managers :)
[19:16] <ogra_> but we are putting work we would before have done over three cycles into one atm
[19:16] <asac> if i read what ogra says :)
[19:17] <rsalveti> well, I don't know who ChickenCutlass is talking with, but it was clear on monday what should be in before FF and what we should drop
[19:17] <ogra_> which means features arent ready by FF
[19:17] <ogra_> asac, i actually expect us to respect FF next cycle
[19:17] <ogra_> and be ready before it
[19:17] <asac> ogra_: yeah, after FF has been moved :)
[19:17] <rsalveti> well, we're kind of respecting FF this cycle it seems
[19:17] <asac> lol
[19:17] <ChickenCutlass> rsalveti, what are we arguing about
[19:17] <rsalveti> kind of
[19:17] <ogra_> lol
[19:17] <beuno> cjwatson, understood. Downgrading isn't currently supported, mostly due to work remaining, so there's still time to figure out what the best way forward there is
[19:17] <seb128> asac, we should respect FF
[19:18] <rsalveti> as it seems quite a few features got dropped because of the FF
[19:18] <ogra_> asac, if we dont respect FF we can as well tell the community we dont care about community governance in ubuntu
[19:18] <rsalveti> ChickenCutlass: this need to land stuff before FF even if not fully completed, stable and product quality :P
[19:18] <ChickenCutlass> rsalveti, I am not going to touch that one
[19:18] <asac> i am not sayuing: we sholdnt respect feature freeze ... my point was that FF shouldn't influecne our decisionm
[19:18] <ChickenCutlass> rsalveti, not a fan of that
[19:18] <rsalveti> right :-)
[19:18] <ogra_> i agree that in some cycles like this one it is needed that we handle FF more lax
[19:18] <asac> about whether something is ready for landing or not
[19:19] <seb128> asac, well, if you want to respect it, it kind of has to influence you..
[19:19] <asac> there is a difference
[19:19] <cjwatson> FF is for our own benefit as well as for the community
[19:19] <pmcgowan> we agreed to have a blanket freeze exception for packages affecting only touch images
[19:19] <ogra_> right
[19:19] <om26er> every app that uses sound fail to start on today's image (fully updated) is that expected ?
[19:19] <cjwatson> (even if it may not feel that way)
[19:19] <ogra_> pmcgowan, "we agreed" ?
[19:19] <rsalveti> pmcgowan: was that approved?
[19:19] <seb128> pmcgowan, those components don't affect only touch
[19:19] <om26er> camera, mediaplayer, music-app
[19:19] <asac> om26er: yeah :(
[19:19] <asac> rsalveti: yes
[19:19] <ogra_> pmcgowan, the release and freeze exceptions are handled by a community team
[19:19] <amosdomingos> which means this error at the end of the installation of ubuntu in nexus phone 4?   ERROR:phablet-flash:Command 'adb shell mount /sdcard/' returned non-zero exit status 255 an someone help me?
[19:19] <asac> rsalveti: we have a blanket FFe for everything not on desktop etc.
[19:19] <seb128> asac, no we don't
[19:19] <ogra_> pmcgowan, we can just not not respect them
[19:19] <asac> no?
[19:20] <asac> seb128: i was told different
[19:20] <rsalveti> where is the bug for that?
[19:20] <asac> seb128: everything touch as pmcgowan said
[19:20] <rsalveti> last time I check it was still not approved
[19:20] <ogra_> we have an FFe bug
[19:20] <asac> rsalveti: slangasek handled that
[19:20] <ogra_> that was still not approved
[19:20] <seb128> asac, we are trying to get one, there is some pushback (understandably) on some of the components
[19:20] <pmcgowan> ogra_, the request was made not sure on approval
[19:20] <ogra_> pmcgowan, right :)
[19:20] <seb128> there is pushback
[19:20] <seb128> on e.g qt5
[19:20] <ogra_> pmcgowan, we dont have any
[19:20] <ogra_> yeah
[19:20] <rsalveti> right, but we can't assume stuff otherwise FF will bite us
[19:20] <asac> qt5 doesnt sound like touch only
[19:21] <rsalveti> qt5 is not touch only
[19:21] <seb128> no, but it was part of the bucket
[19:21] <seb128> for the ffe
[19:21] <asac> should be decoupled
[19:21] <asac> from the general touch FFed
[19:21] <seb128> so it's in the middle of the discussion
[19:21] <seb128> well, it was not
[19:21] <slangasek> seb128: so I think we should proceed with the FFe for everything except qt5, and ScottK and I can argue some more about qt5, yeah
[19:21] <slangasek> qt5 *is* touch-only at present
[19:21] <cjwatson> bug 1208989
[19:21] <slangasek> Kubuntu isn't using it
[19:21] <cjwatson> (since people were asking)
[19:21] <ogra_> cjwatson, ah, thanks
[19:21] <rsalveti> thanks
[19:21] <slangasek> anyway, it's been on my list to follow up on, I'll get that done today
[19:21]  * ogra_ was still digging
[19:21] <asac> slangasek: yeah, but if thats what it takes lets back off from qt5 request for now
[19:22] <slangasek> asac: yep, exactly
[19:22] <seb128> slangasek, well, that bug didn't get acked, which is all we were saying
[19:22] <slangasek> yep
[19:22] <rsalveti> asac: but we can't assume stuff before getting the approval :-) so no, FF will indeed affect us
[19:22] <seb128> also some of the changes that are landing are pulseaudio related
[19:22] <seb128> and that's not touch specific either
[19:22] <seb128> so we need those before FF
[19:22] <rsalveti> yeah, that's why we wanted this to land this week
[19:22] <seb128> or an exception
[19:23] <asac> rsalveti: i am trusting slangasek's gut feeling on thhis
[19:23] <ogra_> right
[19:23] <ogra_> pulse, gstreamer etc
[19:23] <asac> and even if not we should take on the paperwork
[19:23] <asac> instead of landing stuff that we know will break stuff :)
[19:23] <rickspencer3> friggin' feature freeze
[19:23] <slangasek> man
[19:23] <mamenyaka> ogra_, rsalveti any last thing I could check, try with pulseaudio?
[19:23] <rsalveti> asac: right, but I'd prefer having the final words instead of depending on a gut feeling :-)
[19:23] <asac> </end of this discussion> :)
[19:23] <slangasek> I guess I'll go follow up on that right now, to avoid 20 minutes of metadiscussion :P
[19:24] <cjwatson> People forget sometimes that Canonical established feature freeze in the first place, I think :-)
[19:24] <seb128> asac, if we wait for things to be 100% perfect we would never land anything :p
[19:24] <asac> rsalveti: rright... hence discussing the proposal to break video to make FF for a week would have revealed all this :)
[19:24] <rsalveti> if we want stuff to be 100% perfect to land we don't need FF
[19:24] <rsalveti> as it'll always be perfect
[19:24] <rsalveti> product quality
[19:24] <asac> seb128: thats a flawed way to look at it
[19:24] <rsalveti> we can ship today
[19:24] <asac> no ...
[19:24] <rsalveti> lol
[19:24] <seb128> asac, your way is as flawed, just in the other direction
[19:25] <asac> mine isn't :) ... all i am saying is that FF shouldn't compromise our normal standards of daily quality
[19:25] <ogra_> his way is fine, it is just that we dont have the infrastructure to do his way
[19:25] <asac> i dont see how that can be flawed :)
[19:25] <seb128> asac, so you are saying that we can land those changes after 13.10, right? ;-)
[19:25] <rsalveti> our policy is also not matching his way properly
[19:25] <seb128> asac, that's the conclusion of "don't land to early & respect ff"
[19:26] <ogra_> seb128, imagine your team works on its own image until all is perfect, my team does that too etc ... and at FF all our images magically merge to a release
[19:26] <seb128> asac, if it's not ready by ff, it's not landing this cycle but next
[19:26] <asac> seb128: no. i am saying: ensure we get the stuff ready and apply for FFe if needed
[19:26] <asac> accept the additionaml paperwork in case our general FFe doesnt become true
[19:26] <seb128> works for me
[19:26] <seb128> but then you take the chance it's going to be for next cycle
[19:26] <cjohnston> /14
[19:26] <ogra_> it is an infrastructure limitation that asac's model doesnt work atm
[19:26] <rsalveti> yeah
[19:26] <rsalveti> then don't expect some stuff to land for 13.10
[19:27] <rsalveti> this is not matching properly with the reality, as we're planning what stuff will be in 13.10, and we get managers pushing for that :P
[19:27] <asac> rsalveti: sure, and we arrange a FFe
[19:27] <asac> if all fails we will be screwed :)
[19:27] <asac> thats life
[19:27] <rsalveti> so wait it to be perfect before landing would be fine, if we don't have the pressure to land it in a specific date
[19:27] <asac> but ... i dont think we will be
[19:27] <rsalveti> as that's against quality anyway
[19:27] <asac> no
[19:27] <asac> you misread what i am saying
[19:28] <asac> i say nowhere that stuff has to be perfect or bug free
[19:28]  * cjwatson checks the history ... yep, feature freeze was established in May 2004 before we were out from under the radar, so it was definitely of Canonical origin
[19:28] <cjwatson> I doubted my memory for a moment :)
[19:29] <rsalveti> asac: you just said unfinished
[19:29] <rsalveti> that can be bug free :P
[19:29] <rsalveti> or at least stable with no critical bugs
[19:30] <rsalveti> I'm not saying I'm against all that, I'd love if we had a proper CI with tests all around and just landing stuff when it's actually stable
[19:30] <rsalveti> just saying that this is not the reality
[19:30] <ogra_> yeah
[19:30] <asac> reality is that you knew that you would break mediaplayer :)
[19:30] <ogra_> as i said, infrastructural limitation
[19:30] <asac> so you did part one: asess the impact of the landing
[19:31] <rsalveti> we all knew, but we can't release with audioflinger
[19:31] <asac> part two: decide whether thats acceptable should happen more broadly
[19:31] <seb128> asac, well, that's called a transition and we don't flag the image current while it's happening
[19:31] <asac> tahts all i am saying :)
[19:31] <seb128> asac, same as saucy-proposed
[19:31] <seb128> we have transitions in there every day
[19:31] <asac> seb128: thats all fine. i am just critizing that in this  case the deicsion to make /our images not publishable to /current
[19:31] <asac> was taken a bit too unilatery
[19:32] <seb128> asac, that's the price to pay to be able to move forward
[19:32] <ogra_> asac, i told you ion friday that we held back the pulse transition to not have broken images over the weekend
[19:32] <seb128> asac, it was taken by team members and their managers... that's not so unilateral
[19:32] <rsalveti> I said quite a few weeks ago that video playback would break, also video recording
[19:32] <rsalveti> asac: next time I ping you specifically
[19:33] <asac> rsalveti: yeah its all good :). i thnk its really about properly announcing such "high impact" transitions
[19:33] <asac> so everyone agrees on timing and can prepare for the outage
[19:33] <asac> and might veto
[19:33] <seb128> asac, they don't "impact" anyone since no current image is broken
[19:33] <rsalveti> right, ubuntu-dev would be the place for that?
[19:33] <asac> seb128: /proposed is broken and we have engineering projects blocked on that not mobving to /current
[19:33] <ogra_> ubuntu-phone
[19:34] <asac> seb128: it actually means 150 engineers dont get a good basline update
[19:34] <seb128> ogra_, we need ubuntu-phone and ubuntu-phone-users ;-)
[19:34] <rsalveti> yeah
[19:34] <rsalveti> next time we email ubuntu-phone, ping asac directly
[19:34] <rsalveti> and we should be good :-)
[19:34] <seb128> right
[19:34] <ogra_> seb128, and ubuntu-phone-users-discuss and ubuntu-phone-discuss :)
[19:34] <asac> good. much bettrer
[19:34]  * sergiusens wants to get rid of ubuntu-phone@
[19:35] <asac> whenever your team comes to the conclusion that they have to break the image for 1-mayn days, ensure that all stakeholders get briefed and consulted
[19:35] <asac> then you are on safe side :)
[19:35] <asac> thx
[19:35] <asac> sergiusens: what do you want?
[19:35] <seb128> that makes sense I guess
[19:35]  * seb128 is glad some stuff land
[19:35] <seb128> it's getting end of august and still no system-image by default
[19:35] <seb128> no pulseaudio
[19:35] <seb128> no mir
[19:36] <seb128> no lightdm
[19:36] <asac> i am also super glad that pulse lands.
[19:36] <asac> :)
[19:36] <ogra_> seb128, ++
[19:36] <asac> once its working
[19:36] <ogra_> we are so badly behind :/
[19:36] <slangasek> rsalveti: there, FF approved ;)
[19:36] <ogra_> yay
[19:36] <rsalveti> slangasek: great, thanks! :D
[19:36] <sergiusens> ogra_: now that the chatter is down, where was the edify script hosted again?
[19:37] <seb128> slangasek, thanks
[19:37] <ogra_> sergiusens, somewhere in cdimage on nusakan
[19:37] <rsalveti> asac: now you can say that the FF is approved :P
[19:37] <rsalveti> FFe
[19:37] <asac> rsalveti: see... now we busted the image cowboy style because of lack-of-trust in one of your team maters... dont do that :)
[19:37] <asac> just because you thought you need to hurry
[19:37] <seb128> lol
[19:37] <asac> sorry... just kdding
[19:37] <seb128> asac, pulseaudio is not concerned by that FFe :p
[19:37] <asac> lets move on to other topic
[19:37] <seb128> just saying... ;-)
[19:38] <rsalveti> lol
[19:38] <sergiusens> ogra_: in your home or integrated?
[19:38]  * sergiusens branches
[19:38] <asac> seb128: trye ... but worth a paperwork stack
[19:38] <rsalveti> I love this
[19:38] <asac> yeah lets stop
[19:38] <ChickenCutlass> no keep it going
[19:38] <ChickenCutlass> lol
[19:38]  * sergiusens purchases a gaucho hat to take to rsalveti
[19:38] <ogra_> sergiusens, cjwatson integrated it ... and i know he told me where in the cdimage tree it is
[19:38] <seb128> it's not friday yet!
[19:38] <ogra_> but i cant find it
[19:38] <cjwatson> moment
[19:38] <sergiusens> ogra_: I can get to it
[19:38] <ogra_> ok
[19:38] <sergiusens> ty
[19:38] <bfiller> I was going to propose landing the new phone apps in tomorrow's image, but think it's best to wait for the dust to settle :)
[19:39] <cjwatson> /srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/utouch-android/phablet-build-scripts/ I believe
[19:39]  * rsalveti gets back to fix more stuff
[19:39] <cjwatson> or maybe a level up
[19:39] <asac> bfiller: what dust? :) ... there is no dust, just rubble and bricks flying around :)
[19:39] <bfiller> asac: shrapnel
[19:39] <cjwatson> sergiusens: ^
[19:39] <ogra_> cjwatson, ah, heh, i was staring at it the whole time
[19:40] <sergiusens> cjwatson: thanks
[19:40] <ogra_> but utouch didnt really strike me as ubuntu touch related ...
[19:40] <ChickenCutlass> bfiller, land them now
[19:40] <asac> bfiller: do your new apps come with tests?
[19:40] <ChickenCutlass> bfiller, why not
[19:40] <ogra_> it is bad if names you made up yourself arent recognized by yourself
[19:40] <sergiusens> bfiller: just land it
[19:40] <cjwatson> ogra_: I was going to say, you named it :)
[19:40] <bfiller> asac: of course! minimal right now but some
[19:41] <lool> ogra_: lol
[19:41] <lool> bfiller: SHIP IT
[19:41] <bfiller> ChickenCutlass, sergiusens : once phone calls work again with the old apps then we can switch so I don't get blamed
[19:41] <bfiller> what
[19:41] <ChickenCutlass> bfiller, we will blame you anyway
[19:41] <asac> yeah. lets get phone calls working first
[19:41] <ChickenCutlass> :)
[19:41] <asac> that feels reasonable
[19:42] <lool> with the _old_ apps?
[19:42] <bfiller> +1
[19:42] <asac> we can also keep the old phone-app installed?
[19:42] <asac> lool: yeah... first land pulse so old apps work again
[19:42] <pmcgowan> asac, no it conflicts
[19:42] <asac> then move over so we can blame bfiller
[19:42] <bfiller> asac: can't have both
[19:42] <asac> yeah. then serializing like abvove sounds reasonbale
[19:43] <asac> bfiller: lets check tomorrow where we stand ... in case todays image turn green and phone calls works
[19:43] <bfiller> ack
[19:43] <asac> bfiller: i assume we can just start landing them tomorrow morning europe in best case?
[19:43] <asac> (i gues s its unlikely)
[19:44] <bfiller> asac: I have the 2 MR's prepared that will need to get approved, the seed and the shell. apps already in the archive so that is all set
[19:44] <pmcgowan> bfiller, w00t
[19:45] <asac> bfiller: awesome
[19:45] <bfiller> pmcgowan: big milestone
[19:45] <asac> bfiller: so guess we can just guide this in once we have the other stuff sorted
[19:45] <bfiller> yup
[19:45]  * w00t eyes pmcgowan
[19:45] <asac> tomorrow when you get up best case
[19:45] <pmcgowan> oops ;)
[19:45] <w00t> :)
[19:46] <ogra_> w00t, thats as clever as a nick choice as picking lool as your nick :0
[19:46] <ogra_> :)
[19:46] <pmcgowan> l00l
[19:46] <ogra_> hehe
[19:46] <lool> it's kind of sad people moved from lol to lool without any kind of warning
[19:46] <lool> I'll just switch to r0tfl or something
[19:47] <w00t> lool: you need to add another o ;)
[19:47] <lool> it would only buy me a year at best
[19:48] <sergiusens> cjwatson: seems I can update lp:~phablet-team/touch-preview-images/phablet-build-scripts and we can later just pull in the new bits, thanks
[19:51] <ogra_> asac, hmm, no phone calls ... on maguro ... (though some breakage was expected there, it is worse than we thought)
[19:52] <asac> ogra_: so the update won't fix it?
[19:53] <ogra_> asac, nope, volume control doesnt seem to do anything in the indicator (that worked on the pulse image), and i have no ringtone nor any mic or earpiece function
[19:53] <ogra_> asac, did popey test on mako ?
[19:54] <asac> ogra_: did you upgrade?
[19:54] <asac> ogra_: i assume he stopped after it became evident that this image isnt going to be good
[19:54] <ogra_> i upgraded lxc-android-config, yes
[19:54] <ogra_> it should be good on mako
[19:54] <asac> ogra_: that was the only piece missing according to our transition plan?
[19:54] <ogra_> onlu maguro had issues
[19:54] <ogra_> yeah
[19:54] <rsalveti> ogra_: did you spin a new image?
[19:54] <rsalveti> want to test with a clean image
[19:55] <ogra_> rsalveti, yes, but lxc-android-config is still missing
[19:55] <asac> rsalveti: how would a clean image help?
[19:55] <rsalveti> try playing audio
[19:55] <ogra_> next build should start in 6 min
[19:55] <rsalveti> great, will wait that one for further testing
[19:55] <rsalveti> asac: well, I just prefer to test stuff like that in a clean env
[19:55] <asac> ack
[19:55] <asac> i agree
[19:55] <asac> no confusion at best :)
[19:55] <rsalveti> I'll test both maguro and mako once out
[19:56] <ogra_> rsalveti, well, selecting the ringtone function from system-settings hangs
[19:56]  * ogra_ blames seb
[19:56] <rsalveti> right, try with aplay, mplayer or similar
[19:56] <rsalveti> so you can at least check if pulseaudio is behaving properly
[19:56] <ogra_> well, let me check if pulse runs at all
[19:56] <bfiller> sergiusens: can we prevent address-book-app from being daily released until this stuff is sorted? the latest version depends on telephony-service which will uninstall phone-app
[19:57] <asac> hmm. i dont have a settings launcher anymore at all
[19:57] <ogra_> seems to run
[19:57] <ogra_> asac, expand "installed"
[19:58] <ogra_> (the caption)
[19:58] <sergiusens> bfiller: that's something for the daily release team
[19:58] <asac> ogra_: interesting ... i am sure i had it on top level before
[19:58] <sergiusens> bfiller: luckily they now do vanguard style https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dHFtUmlPOUtCRk8zR2dtaEpIbUVhMmc#gid=4
[19:58] <asac> oh ... i hear something :)
[19:58] <ogra_> asac, mako should be fine, as i said
[19:58] <asac> ogra_: on maguro i can play ringtone
[19:58] <asac> odd ... let me see if i really have the right image
[19:59] <sergiusens> bfiller: seems to be cyphermox turn
[19:59] <ogra_> asac, with the updated lxc-andrioid-config ? 0.82
[19:59] <bfiller> sergiusens: ken if I'm ready correctly
[19:59] <asac> ogra_: hmm. ... no
[20:00] <asac> i might run something very old
[20:00] <mefrio> is there any gallery app?
[20:00] <bfiller> kenvandine: can you temp disable address-book-app from daily release
[20:00] <ogra_> yeah
[20:00] <mefrio> *gallery app developer?
[20:00] <asac> ogra_: where do i check on thedevice?
[20:00] <sergiusens> bfiller: oh yeah, overlap and just reaching the cutover time
[20:00] <asac> ogra_: i am sure i upgraded during the UDS session... maybe forgot --pending
[20:00] <sergiusens> and robru
[20:00] <ogra_> asac, /var/log/installer/media-info
[20:00] <bfiller> kenvandine: it will pull in telephony-service which conflicts with phone-app and we're not ready for phone-app to be removed yet
[20:01] <asac> Ubuntu Saucy Salamander (development branch) - armhf (20130827.1)
[20:01] <asac> ogra_: ^^
[20:01] <bfiller> cyphermox: ^^^^ see request above
[20:01] <ogra_> asac, and you upgraded lxc-android-config to 0.82 ?
[20:01] <asac> lxc-* is 0.77
[20:01] <asac> ogra_: no ... seems not
[20:01] <ogra_> aha
[20:01] <ogra_> then you use audioflinger
[20:02] <asac> so that works still?
[20:02] <asac> nice
[20:02] <asac> then this image is good :)
[20:02] <ogra_> I/ServiceManager( 1549): Waiting for service media.audio_flinger...
[20:02] <ogra_> W/AudioSystem( 1549): AudioFlinger not published, waiting...
[20:02] <ogra_> rsalveti, ^^
[20:02] <ogra_> i didnt have that on the pulse image
[20:02] <asac> popey: did you try .1 ?
[20:03] <asac> sound in particular on mako
[20:03] <ogra_> rsalveti, was there more needed than the pre-start.d snippet  ?
[20:03] <asac> ogra_: can you try just the .1 image ... does that work?
[20:03] <asac> call etc.?
[20:03] <asac> or no chance at all?
[20:03] <asac> sound works at least for me
[20:03] <rsalveti> ogra_: that's fine, the waiting is because audioflinger is not up
[20:03] <ogra_> asac, yes, it works as long as i dont disable audioflinger (which lxc-android-config 0.82 does)
[20:03] <rsalveti> ogra_: guess that's because of the camera service and such
[20:04] <ogra_> rsalveti, well, i dont have any sound
[20:04] <asac> ogra_: so then .1 image is good to go, now?
[20:04] <asac> no?
[20:04] <ogra_> and apps that try to access sound hang hard
[20:04] <rsalveti> do you have the older alsa/audioflinger package installed?
[20:04] <ogra_> i unseeded that iirc
[20:04] <rsalveti> also check that the default config file from pulse is not using that
[20:04] <rsalveti> oh, is this a clean flash with latest?
[20:05] <rsalveti> thought you did apt-get update & dist-upgrade
[20:05] <ogra_> libandroid-audiosystem-asound2
[20:05] <rsalveti> right
[20:05] <cyphermox> bfiller: disabling address-book-app?
[20:05] <ogra_> well, i only flashed the armhf.zip
[20:05] <bfiller> cyphermox: yes
[20:05] <rsalveti> should be fine
[20:05] <ogra_> but yeah, it is 27.1
[20:05]  * asac has to restart system to get rid of glitches
[20:06] <cyphermox> can I ask why?
[20:06] <rsalveti> ogra_: let me just finish the camera patch and will get to it, hopefully with 27.2
[20:06] <ogra_> rsalveti, great
[20:07] <bfiller> cyphermox: we just landed something in that branch that deps on new telephony-service which conflicts/replaces phone-app and haven't added new dialer-app to seed yet as waiting for pulse related problems to be fixed first
[20:08] <bfiller> cyphermox: so if address-book-app lands the image will have no dialer basically until we seed dialer-app
[20:09] <cyphermox> I see dialer-app in the builds too?
[20:09] <bfiller> cyphermox: it's in the archive but not in the image by default yet
[20:10] <cyphermox> ok
[20:10] <cyphermox> well, seeding is completely separate from the daily-release stuff
[20:10] <bfiller> I know
[20:11] <bfiller> cyphermox: nevermind, I'll just remove address-book-app from the seed till everything is ready
[20:11] <cyphermox> either way works
[20:11] <cyphermox> I can disable it, I'm just trying to understand and write down why it's needed :)
[20:14] <cyphermox> kenvandine:  available for a config review? https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/cupstream2distro-config/2013-08-27_16-12/+merge/182486
[20:14] <bfiller> cyphermox: ok, go ahead and disable then if that's fine. will probably be pinging you tomorrow to turn it back on after things are sorted
[20:14] <cyphermox> ok
[20:15] <cyphermox> robru: around?  ^^^
[20:23] <robru> cyphermox, just got back. will look
[20:28] <alecu> lool: hi, I'm trying to debug the issue launching apps. How do I upgrade lxc-android-config in the RO image?
[20:28] <alecu> lool: I'm guessing "mounting rw, apt-get upgrade then mounting ro"
[20:30] <asac> hmm. wonder if my maguro battery is dying
[20:30] <asac> it doesnt go beyond red anymore ... maybe the indicator is lying?
[20:33] <ogra_> asac, open it
[20:33] <ogra_> the icon is lying
[20:33] <ogra_> the ndicator should show something proper
[20:34] <ogra_> hmm, so i can: paplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Center.wav
[20:35] <ogra_> as phablet user ... that works just fine
[20:35] <ogra_> but nothing of the UI apps seems to be able to talk to pulse
[20:38] <w-flo> still using qtubuntu-media instead of the pulseaudio qt thing?
[20:38] <asac> popey: ?
[20:38] <asac> popey: did it go well?
[20:38] <asac> popey: turns out the sound would work in theory
[20:39] <ogra_> w-flo, no, i removed that today
[20:39] <asac> plars: do you have a mako?
[20:39] <asac> with a SIM?
[20:39] <rsalveti> ogra_: do you have qtubuntu-media installed still?
[20:39] <plars> asac: I do
[20:39] <ogra_> rsalveti, !
[20:39] <asac> plars: can you try the .1 build and check if incoming call works?
[20:39]  * ogra_ slaps forehead
[20:39] <w-flo> ogra_, you only removed it 3 gizrs agi
[20:39] <w-flo> *hours ago :)
[20:39] <asac> plars: we want to push that, but didnt get confirm on that one (and the audio stack is a bit in flux right now)
[20:39] <rsalveti> ogra_: that's why I'm waiting the latest image, for a complete clean env :-)
[20:39]  * ogra_ likes gizrs
[20:40] <plars> asac: I have the system-image of .1 right now, I can reflash though
[20:40]  * ogra_ uninstalls ... lets see
[20:40] <rsalveti> that is probably what is requiring audioflinger
[20:40] <asac> plars: yeah that would be nice
[20:40] <asac> better do it right :)
[20:40] <asac> plars: though if you say it works now
[20:41] <asac> it might give me some confidence :)
[20:41]  * ogra_ reboots phone and crosses fingers
[20:42] <plars> asac: works on the system-image one
[20:42] <plars> asac: .2 is out now though it seems :)
[20:42] <plars> asac: specificly you want .1 though?
[20:42] <asac> plars: yeah but that is busted :)
[20:42] <plars> ok
[20:42] <asac> plars: hence i am very keen on getting .1 blessed :)
[20:43] <ogra_> well, seems to behave a bit better, but still doesnt work
[20:43] <asac> ogra_: so i assume having the ringtone settings testsed
[20:43] <asac> might reveal such things in auto testing?
[20:43] <asac> might be interesting to use this opportunity to land a test showing that audio is busted :)
[20:43] <ogra_> asac, well, currently for me the settings app hangs hard if i try to select a ringtone
[20:44] <ogra_> do we have anything in utah that makes sure the app gets killed in such a state ?
[20:44] <ogra_> then this would definitely make sense as a default audio test
[20:45] <rsalveti> ogra_: what is the behavior now?
[20:45] <ogra_> rsalveti, well, the popup on incoming calls works all the time
[20:45] <ogra_> but when the phone app opens it doesnt pick up the call
[20:46] <ogra_> when i make a call it is completely silent
[20:46] <ogra_> paplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Center.wav just works fine
[20:46] <rsalveti> compare the version of telepathy-ofono
[20:46] <ogra_> even when i plug in the headset it comes out there and switches the output properly
[20:46] <rsalveti> let me check the build log of that one as well
[20:47] <ogra_> i compared all package versions twice now
[20:47] <ogra_> its all up to date
[20:47] <ogra_> qtubuntu-media definitely was a bloking factor, but thats not all
[20:47] <rsalveti> -DUSE_PULSEAUDIO
[20:47] <rsalveti> seems to be right
[20:48] <ogra_> yeah, he dropped the dep
[20:48] <ogra_> and added pulse
[20:48] <rsalveti> so it seems pulse is working as expected
[20:48] <ogra_> yeah
[20:48] <ogra_> else paplay wouldnt work
[20:48] <rsalveti> wonder if we're not missing anything in telepathy-ofono
[20:48] <ogra_> it seems to be the layer between UI and pulse
[20:48] <rsalveti> so you have anyone requesting for audioflinger in logcat?
[20:48]  * ogra_ checks
[20:48] <rsalveti> can you dump logcat when doing the call?
[20:49] <ogra_> logcat is quiet
[20:50] <rsalveti> so yeah, then it's not even requesting the call to be up
[20:50] <rsalveti> otherwise it'd be clear in logcat
[20:50] <rsalveti> guess add some debugging in telepathy-ofono
[20:50] <ogra_> E/audio_hw_primary(  695): Entering IN_CALL state, in_call=0
[20:50] <ogra_> E/audio_hw_primary(  695): Opening modem PCMs
[20:50] <ogra_> thats all i get
[20:50] <rsalveti> right, that's the one
[20:51] <ogra_> my other phone rings, but there is nothing on the earpiece on the maguro
[20:51] <rsalveti> is that when making or receiving a call?
[20:51] <ogra_> making
[20:52] <ogra_> BAH !
[20:52] <ogra_> now incoming has a ringtone
[20:52] <ogra_> it didnt 5min before with the last test
[20:52] <rsalveti> something is still not right for maguro then
[20:53] <ogra_> ok, ringtone now always works
[20:53] <ogra_> earpiece still doesnt
[20:53] <ogra_> i wonder if it is caused by one of the phone app commits that asac pulled in today
[20:53] <rsalveti> is asac coding now?
[20:54] <ogra_> no, but phone-app was not up to date wrt trunk in the PPA
[20:54] <rsalveti> aa, too bad
[20:54] <asac> ogra_: that one touches tests only?
[20:54] <rsalveti> we need more developers :-)
[20:55] <rsalveti> ogra_: what happened with the phone-app archive transition?
[20:55] <rsalveti> is that something bfiller_afk will take care tomorrow?
[20:55] <rsalveti> so many moving parts
[20:55] <ogra_> rsalveti, one would hope so
[20:55] <asac> rsalveti: we want to hit green once
[20:55] <ChickenCutlass> ogra_, removing that package makes it much better :)
[20:55] <asac> then its coming next
[20:55] <ogra_> rsalveti,  it was just added to daily release
[20:55] <asac> (e.g. all the apps replacing phone-app)
[20:56] <ogra_> ChickenCutlass, yeah, except no audio on calls :)
[20:56] <ChickenCutlass> ogra_, on mako its fine
[20:56] <ogra_> phew
[20:56] <ogra_> something at least
[20:56] <rsalveti> ogra_: right, let's hope tomorrow the phone app will at least start :-)
[20:56] <ogra_> hey ! sintel plays fine too
[20:56] <rsalveti> using software decode
[20:57] <ogra_> well, it has audio
[20:57] <asac> ogra_: phone-app is only touching tests/ stuff from waht i see really
[20:57] <ogra_> it didnt even start before
[20:57] <rsalveti> wonder how we got the sw plugins in by default
[20:57] <rsalveti> ogra_: because of qtubuntu-media
[20:57] <ogra_> asac, yeah, if mako works fine then it is actually a device issue
[20:57] <plars> odd
[20:57] <rsalveti> ogra_: is 27.2 done already?
[20:57] <asac> ogra_: maybe its you? did you do a fresh install?
[20:57] <rsalveti> will test with both
[20:57] <ogra_> rsalveti, yup
[20:57] <rsalveti> awesome
[20:57] <plars> asac: I called from my mako to my personal phone, and it worked...
[20:57] <asac> rsalveti: we are interested in .1 build
[20:57] <ogra_> asac, indeed
[20:58] <plars> asac: but now my screen won't come on on the mako
[20:58] <asac> unless you come back and say that .2 is working on both
[20:58] <ogra_> asac, 27.1 is borked
[20:58] <plars> asac: I can hear it ring, but I can't see anything on screen
[20:58] <ogra_> asac, 27.1 isnt fixable, move to .2
[20:58] <asac> plars: thats different to what?
[20:58] <asac> ogra_: why is it borked? i only see green and didnt get a clear answer
[20:58] <plars> asac: I didn't experience this earlier
[20:58] <asac> whether its working :)
[20:58] <plars> asac: even on the system image .1
[20:58] <plars> maybe I just got lucky though
[20:59] <ogra_> asac, qtubuntu-mediawas only removed after it built
[20:59] <asac> plars: i would dismiss this for now
[20:59] <plars> asac: ok, well I can't confirm much with no display
[20:59] <ogra_> asac, that re-routes all audio to a non existing android service
[20:59] <ogra_> asac, 27.2 should be fine
[20:59] <asac> ogra_: but we upgraded lxc-android
[20:59] <asac> and that one was bad?
[20:59] <ogra_> (apart from device specific issues)
[20:59] <asac> well, let me try it
[21:00] <asac> at least what i can without a SIM'
[21:00]  * asac installs pending
[21:01] <asac> ogra_: can you explain why plars's issue will be fixed in .2 ?
[21:01] <asac> or even identify what issue that is:) ?
[21:01] <asac> seeing nothing during call?
[21:01] <ogra_> no idea, sounds like powerd
[21:02] <plars> asac: seeing nothing after a call actually
[21:02] <ogra_> or the sensor service
[21:02] <asac> plars: after ? so you can call, have audio and everything?
[21:02] <plars> ogra_: yeah, it sorta seems like the sensor shut off the screen, but it never came back
[21:02] <asac> ogra_: did we fix/change something in powerd ?
[21:02] <asac> plars: maybe downgrade?
[21:02] <asac> pwoerd?
[21:02] <plars> asac: I can call the phone, and I hear it ring as I said, but I don't think I can answer... I can't see anything on the screen
[21:02] <ogra_> plars, right, smells like powerd
[21:02] <asac> ogra_: is that just pwoerd or also libpowerd?
[21:02] <ogra_> there is a lib ?
[21:03] <asac> not sure :)
[21:03] <asac> i ask
[21:03]  * ogra_ wasnt even aware
[21:03] <asac> so guess just downgrading powerd :)
[21:03] <asac> plars: ^^
[21:03] <ogra_> heh, i dont think there is one
[21:03] <asac> try that
[21:03] <ogra_> well, it could as well be some bit powerd interacts with
[21:03] <asac> could be... we could look what changed as well :)
[21:03] <plars> let me see if it's reproducible
[21:03] <ogra_> plars, is that 27.2 ?
[21:04] <plars> ogra_: no, 27.1
[21:04] <asac> if we knew what the last build was that worked at least :)
[21:04] <ogra_> k
[21:04] <asac> i assume 22 is safe fallback
[21:04] <ogra_> maguro doesnt have such issues
[21:04] <ogra_> but no sound :)
[21:04] <asac> ogra_: on .2?
[21:04] <asac> why am i even testing that then
[21:05] <asac> :)
[21:05] <asac> ogra_: i have sound on .1
[21:05] <ogra_> on .1 .... i have my screen working fine
[21:05] <plars> one thing I notice... and I don't imagine this is new, is that it takes a bit after the phone powers on before I can make a call
[21:05] <plars> if I just go start phone-app and punch in a number and hit the call button, nothing happens
[21:05] <ogra_> asac, yeah you have most of the old stack there
[21:05] <asac> plars: define that "bit" a bit better?
[21:05] <plars> I have to wait a bit first
[21:05] <asac> 1, 2, 5, 10 minutes?
[21:06] <plars> asac: about 1 min
[21:06] <plars> asac: I'm having trouble reproducing the problem I mentioned earlier though
[21:06] <plars> asac: seems to be a corner case
[21:06] <asac> plars: so all fine for you?
[21:06] <plars> asac: now the screen is working for me
[21:06] <asac> plars: do you have a maguro as well? :)
[21:06] <asac> plars: and calls work too?
[21:07] <plars> asac: yes, calls to/from are working
[21:07] <asac> nice
[21:07] <asac> sounds like a golden image
[21:07] <asac> on mako
[21:07] <asac> :)
[21:07]  * ogra_ goes afk ...
[21:07] <asac> ogra_: now can you explain to me before you go, why exactly maguro is broken on .1 :)?
[21:07] <plars> asac: so what's broken on .2?
[21:08] <asac> plars: not sure... you could try that next :) ...
[21:08] <asac> but if i dist-upgraded
[21:08] <plars> asac: well you just said it was known to be broken
[21:08] <asac> it playing sound in "settings -> ringtone" didnt work
[21:08] <asac> plars: we dont know... rsalveti thinks that the image itself might behave better
[21:08] <asac> so i think we should try that as well... was just hoping to get a postitive on 22.1 as well :)
[21:08] <asac> first
[21:09] <asac> just clarity
[21:09] <rsalveti> qtubuntu-media was still part of 22.1
[21:09] <asac> rsalveti: and that is known to break maguro but not mako?
[21:09] <asac> fwiw, mako seems to be fine
[21:09] <rsalveti> well, audio/video playback would be broken for both
[21:09] <asac> rsalveti: plars can do calls and has sound
[21:09] <asac> :)
[21:09] <asac> on mako
[21:10] <plars> asac: on .1, if I go to settings->sound, I can play the sounds there, but if I switch enough times (all the same sounds) it quits playing any of them
[21:10] <asac> i have sound as well on maguro
[21:10] <asac> i just cant test calls
[21:10] <asac> which is what ogra says is broken
[21:10] <rsalveti> plars: can you check if you have qtubuntu-media installed?
[21:10] <w-flo> I think audioflinger was accidentally left enabled on 22.1, so audio works (since qtubuntu-media was also accidentally kept)
[21:10] <plars> rsalveti: on .1, yes it is installed
[21:10] <rsalveti> yeah, anyway, testing 27.2 now
[21:10] <plars> I can switch over to .2 now
[21:10] <w-flo> err. 27.1.
[21:11] <asac> w-flo: do you have a maguro?
[21:11] <asac> we need someone to make a tie-break test :)
[21:11] <w-flo> asac, no, I've never used any of todays images, too
[21:11] <asac> too bad
[21:11] <w-flo> this is just what I assume from following the discusion :)
[21:11] <asac> right
[21:12] <asac> thats also what i undersatnd. doesnt explain though why maguro should fail where mako succeeds
[21:12] <asac> :)
[21:13] <asac> rsalveti: sounds not working in settings -> ringtone -> start playing
[21:13] <asac> on maguro here
[21:13] <asac> it worked on .1
[21:13] <rsalveti> I believe then .1 was actually using audioflinger then
[21:14] <rsalveti> as iirc it also had the older lxc-android-config
[21:14] <asac> rsalveti: can you check .1 to give us a tie break?
[21:14] <rsalveti> why is .1 important?
[21:14] <asac> on maguro
[21:14] <rsalveti> it's broken
[21:14] <asac> rsalveti: we want to release an image... it seems to work well
[21:14] <rsalveti> and we got .2 already
[21:14] <asac> for users
[21:15] <rsalveti> right, .1 is broken
[21:15] <asac> rsalveti: .2 is broken on audio ... i just tried it
[21:15] <asac> .1 is working for me
[21:15] <asac> and for plars :)
[21:15] <plars> asac: I was able to break audio on .1
[21:15] <rsalveti> .1 = audioflinger
[21:15] <rsalveti> .2 = pulse
[21:15] <asac> so while i know that it is broken in terms of not using pulse, it seems to be working
[21:15] <plars> asac: didn't take long
[21:15] <rsalveti> actually .1 is some sort of audioflinger and pulse
[21:15] <rsalveti> that's why we shouldn't use it
[21:15] <asac> allright :)
[21:15] <asac> so check out .2
[21:15] <asac> and fix it
[21:16] <asac> i was just trying to get off some pressure here :)
[21:16] <rsalveti> yeah, I'd prefer that one :-)
[21:16]  * plars is pulling 27.2 now
[21:16] <asac> by getting an image out so we unblock system images testing
[21:16] <asac> rsalveti: ^^
[21:16] <asac> plars: thx
[21:16] <asac> maguro fails here :(
[21:16] <rsalveti> why is that blocking system image testing?
[21:16] <asac> rsalveti: because they need a newer image and we couldnt release one since last thu
[21:16] <asac> so friday we went dark
[21:16] <asac> and they need a base for testing
[21:17] <rsalveti> right, so they need a more recent one from current
[21:17] <rsalveti> not pending
[21:17] <asac> a more modern base (guess they landed something in our imgaes that are needed for the initial transition)
[21:17] <asac> rsalveti: exactly
[21:17] <asac> so i am trying to get something that i can ship to rick :)
[21:17] <rsalveti> don't we have a pending -> current for that as well?
[21:17] <asac> rsalveti: no. we dont
[21:17] <asac> also we have a few big landings
[21:17] <rsalveti> right
[21:17] <asac> so if we dont get green today or early tomoror
[21:17] <asac> w
[21:17] <asac> we will continue to be blcoked for ages in worst case
[21:18] <rsalveti> I'd probably guess you'll only get a stable image by friday
[21:18] <rsalveti> because it's FF week
[21:18] <rsalveti> and the new phone-app stack will land tomorrow as well
[21:18] <asac> why does it need to be like that?
[21:18] <asac> we have all that covered by the FFe
[21:18] <asac> we will wait with phone-app
[21:18] <asac> until this is sorted
[21:18] <asac> we will not land stuff until we have an image :)
[21:18] <rsalveti> right, might not necessarily be related, but we have big things landing this week
[21:18] <rsalveti> the phone-app is one
[21:18] <rsalveti> that we're waiting for weeks
[21:18] <asac> sure, lets coordinate
[21:18] <asac> first get back to green
[21:18] <asac> and then push them in bit by bit instead of accepting chaos
[21:19] <rsalveti> also, is indicator working again?
[21:19] <rsalveti> network indicator was giving empty here
[21:19] <uhm1> mmm hi :)
[21:19] <rsalveti> rebooting 27.2
[21:19] <asac> rsalveti: well, first basic features. :)
[21:19] <plars> rsalveti: which device are you looking at with 27.2
[21:19] <asac> if it auto connects folks can still use it in home enviornments :)
[21:19] <rsalveti> mako
[21:19] <asac> hehe
[21:19] <plars> rsalveti: same here
[21:19] <rsalveti> well, I need to connect to a network
[21:19] <rsalveti> but will also test maguro in a few
[21:19] <asac> rsalveti: phablet-network-setup :)
[21:19] <uhm1> I have ubuntu phone installed in my N4, but i don't know how it works! Somebody can link me a guide to configure it? For example, I can't call !!!
[21:19] <rsalveti> yeah, still empty
[21:20] <rsalveti> who is taking care of that?
[21:20] <rsalveti> we can't go green with that bug in as well
[21:20] <rsalveti> it's there since friday
[21:20] <rsalveti> cyphermox: is this something you can take a look?
[21:20] <asac> in my terms thats not a real regression ... in my experience we only had a working network indicator for a few days
[21:20] <rsalveti> indicator always worked fine
[21:20] <rsalveti> with a few issues, but I could always connect to a network
[21:21] <rsalveti> I always flash with -b
[21:21] <asac> i couldnt until recently
[21:21] <cyphermox> rsalveti: sorry, I'm not really reading backlog, I'm busy with something else -- could you explain what I need to look at?
[21:21] <rsalveti> maybe when I was in vac haha :-)
[21:21] <rsalveti> cyphermox: empty network indicator
[21:21] <rsalveti> cyphermox: just flash latest image
[21:21] <asac> yeah
[21:21] <uhm1> I have ubuntu phone installed in my N4, but i don't know how it works! Somebody can link me a guide to configure it? For example, I can't call !!!
[21:22] <cyphermox> not until in an hour or so, I got tons of stuff installed for mtp and NM
[21:22] <rsalveti> np, who is the owner of that indicator?
[21:22] <asac> plars: so for you its also broken, right?
[21:23] <asac> rsalveti: so if we hold the presses and focus on fixing what needs to be fixed, what would that list be?
[21:23] <asac>  + pulseaudio
[21:23] <asac>  + network indicator
[21:23] <asac>  + ????
[21:23] <rsalveti> guess that should be all
[21:23] <asac> phone-app? is that connected to pulse?
[21:24] <asac> guess that can wait
[21:24] <rsalveti> unless the new phone-app is also broken
[21:24] <rsalveti> but we had a few issues with the previous version as well
[21:24] <rsalveti> and ogra_ said we're now using a more recent one
[21:24] <rsalveti> anyway, let me first test this
[21:24] <uhm1> mmm how can i activate phone to recieve or do calls?
[21:24] <rsalveti> and open a bug for the indicator
[21:24] <plars> yeah, I have no indicator icon
[21:24] <seb128_> rsalveti, tedg owns the network indicator
[21:24] <rsalveti> tedg: hey, still around?
[21:24] <asac> rsalveti: so you think the audio stuff in .2 is just a minor detail?
[21:24] <rsalveti> tedg: network indicator is empty since last friday
[21:25] <asac> if we can get it into tomorrows first image that would make it
[21:25] <asac> otherwise we will hold the presses i guess
[21:25] <tedg> rsalveti, Yup, what's up?
[21:25] <uhm1> MMmmm algun español?
[21:25] <rsalveti> asac: I'd expect a working 28.1, as we need diwic to help fixing the remaining possible issues with pulse
[21:25] <rsalveti> but anyway, let me run a complete tests and get the bugs in place
[21:25] <rsalveti> tedg: network indicator is empty since friday
[21:26] <rsalveti> tedg: just flash latest image
[21:26] <tedg> rsalveti, Hmm, what version of indicator-network is that?
[21:26] <josepht> networks show up in the indicator for me on 27.2 mako
[21:26] <rsalveti> 0.5.0+13.10.20130827.3-0ubuntu1
[21:26] <rsalveti> tedg: ^
[21:26] <uhm1> mmmmm
[21:27] <uhm1> how can i see the version instaled?
[21:27] <rsalveti> I flashed with a clean flash, using -b --pending
[21:27] <ringtail> llo All
[21:28] <tedg> rsalveti, Huh, that's the same version I'm running, and I have tons of networking.
[21:28] <ringtail> Just now installed Ubuntu touch on Nexus 10
[21:28] <tedg> rsalveti, Anything in the upstart log?  ~/.cache/upstart/indicator-network.log
[21:28] <rsalveti> let me check
[21:28] <ringtail> Not sure how mature it is yet
[21:29] <ringtail> How do install more apps , or better browser atleast ?
[21:29] <rsalveti> tedg: just http://paste.ubuntu.com/6034377/
[21:29] <rsalveti> tedg: can you do a clean flash with 27.2?
[21:29] <tedg> rsalveti, Is network manager running?
[21:29] <rsalveti> yes
[21:30] <rsalveti> was able to connect after using phablet-network-setup
[21:30] <tedg> Try restarting indicator-network?
[21:30] <tedg> restart indicator-network
[21:31] <plars> calling works for me on 27.2 both ways, I can still make audio fail from settings->sound by just selecting different things quickly
[21:32] <rsalveti> tedg: still epty
[21:32] <rsalveti> empty
[21:33] <uhm1> SOMEBODY CAN TELL ME HOW TO ACTIVE MOBILE NETWORKS ? TO CAN SEND AND RECIEVE CALLS?
[21:33] <tedg> rsalveti, Not even the NM client error?
[21:33] <mhall119> uhm1: get a SIM, plug it in, that's all it took for me
[21:34] <uhm1> It's plugged  and dont ask me for PIN number
[21:34] <asac> uhm1: i think you need to use command line tool for PIN for now
[21:34] <asac> UI is landing soonish
[21:34] <uhm1> and how can i use command line tool?
[21:36] <asac> rsalveti: so what do you think about the sound?
[21:36] <rsalveti> tedg: which client error?
[21:36] <asac> anything obviously missing?
[21:36] <rsalveti> asac: checking still
[21:36] <asac> i know this was tested from a appa
[21:36] <tedg> rsalveti, The one you pastebin'd earlier.  Did it happen on restart again?
[21:36] <rsalveti> working fine for nexus 4
[21:36] <asac> so must be something eaasy hidden in obviousness
[21:36] <asac> :)
[21:37] <rsalveti> tedg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6034391/
[21:37] <rsalveti> plars: so yeah, audio playback and phone, making and receiving seems to be working fine with nexus 4
[21:37] <asac> really?
[21:37] <asac> nice
[21:37] <asac> did plars confirm that?
[21:38] <rsalveti> let me test with the music app
[21:38] <plars> asac: yes, but as with .1 I'm able to make sound stop playing in settings, but that could be just an issue with the app... it doesn't stop it for the whole device, just in settings and just until I kill it and restart the app
[21:38] <tedg> cyphermox, Did you change anything in the DBus config?  We're getting a rejection? ^
[21:38] <cyphermox> no
[21:38] <cyphermox> I don't touch that code
[21:39] <plars> we need some sample media for music player :)
[21:39] <asac> wonder if thats just a volume thing
[21:40] <asac> on maguro
[21:40] <tyhicks> tedg: what is the dbus package version?
[21:40] <seb128> tedg, tyhicks just uploaded dbus with confinement support to saucy
[21:41] <josepht> asac: incoming and outgoing call audio works for me on .2
[21:41] <seb128> but that's not likely it, rsalveti says he's having the indicator not working since friday
[21:41] <rsalveti> video playback also working fine
[21:41] <tyhicks> it is still in proposed, so I doubt that is the issue
[21:41] <rsalveti> but with software decoding
[21:41] <asac> josepht: maguro?
[21:41] <seb128> tyhicks, btw, did you guys make a performance impact on dbus of those changes?
[21:41] <rsalveti> music app failed, not sure why
[21:41] <josepht> asac: mako
[21:41] <asac> ack. thx for the confirm
[21:41] <asac> josepht: also from settings -> play ringtone?
[21:41] <asac> does that work?
[21:42] <tyhicks> seb128: there is an impact when the sending and/or receiving processes are confined by apparmor
[21:42] <tyhicks> seb128: no impact when both ends are unconfined
[21:42] <tedg> It looks like my phone has a different dbus config that my desktop for Network Manager.
[21:42] <seb128> tyhicks, that's great ;-)
[21:43] <josepht> asac: I hear some and not others.  They are all the same sound though.
[21:43] <asac> ok
[21:43] <asac> i hear nothing
[21:43] <asac> so confirmed that its maguro specific
[21:43] <rsalveti> plars: camera will fail to load, but for that I got a wip patch here, should be pushing later today
[21:43] <asac> rsalveti: ^^ so yeah. odd thingy
[21:43] <asac> thx
[21:43] <rsalveti> asac: will test with gnexus after nexus 4
[21:44] <asac> so you are a "good news first" type of person :)
[21:44] <plars> rsalveti: camera came up for me, but has some funny gray bars on the top/bottom
[21:44] <asac> good to know
[21:44] <asac> hehe
[21:45] <rsalveti> plars: hm, it shouldn't even be up
[21:45] <plars> rsalveti: it came up here
[21:45] <rsalveti> plars: can you check if you have the media service running?
[21:45] <rsalveti> can you paste me your logcat?
[21:45] <rsalveti> and couldn't get a crash in system-settings
[21:46] <rsalveti> all ringtones working as expected
[21:46] <rsalveti> selected quite a few, fast, and all working
[21:46] <plars> rsalveti: they even play different sounds?
[21:46] <rsalveti> plars: yes
[21:46] <plars> rsalveti: for me, under settings, it all plays the same sound
[21:46] <plars> if i quit and come back, I get a different sound, but they all play the same
[21:46] <rsalveti> plars: is that a clean 27.2?
[21:46] <rsalveti> with -b
[21:46] <plars> rsalveti: no -b, but I can try that
[21:46] <rsalveti> right, I'm testing with -b
[21:47] <rsalveti> and camera app is not running in here
[21:47] <rsalveti> plars: and this is the cdimage image, right? not the system one
[21:47] <plars> rsalveti: correct
[21:47] <rsalveti> right
[21:47] <plars> rsalveti: I'll reflash and see if I get any difference
[21:47] <rsalveti> cool
[21:47] <rsalveti> even using the 'Desktop Login' as ringtone now
[21:47] <rsalveti> lol
[21:48] <asac> rsalveti: sounds good for mako
[21:48] <asac> :)
[21:48] <rsalveti> too bad it's not really making any difference
[21:48] <rsalveti> ringtone for real is still using the old sound
[21:49] <rsalveti> but just noticed something we need to fix somewhere
[21:49] <rsalveti> let me take notes of my results
[21:50] <alecu> beuno: I think I found why your app won't start: the app name has a "_"
[21:51] <alecu> beuno: that would be line 5 here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6034427/
[21:52] <alecu> the app name is "hello_world" there
[21:52] <alecu> (the package name seems fine: "ar.com.beuno.hello-world")
[21:53] <rsalveti> jack detection working as well, awesome
[21:54] <alecu> lool: ^ I think the above error in beuno's app is what's preventing you from starting it.
[21:54] <uhm1> nice
[21:54] <uhm1> phone don0t work on my n4
[21:54] <uhm1> i cant do any call
[21:54] <uhm1> :/
[21:54] <tedg> cyphermox, I'm pretty sure the dbus config is broken on the phone.
[21:54] <uhm1> don't ask me about pin code
[21:54] <tedg> cyphermox, For network manager
[21:55] <cyphermox> tedg: impossible, this hasn't changed
[21:55] <cyphermox> it's the same code as on desktop
[21:55] <tedg> cyphermox, It is different than the one on my desktop
[21:55] <tedg> cyphermox, It looks like someone's patched in another stanza
[21:56] <spanner3003>  i have a nexus 7  wifi can we try to get sound/video working on it?  i can give logcat test est..
[21:56] <cyphermox> tedg: they definitely shouldn't do that
[21:56] <cyphermox> how different?
[21:56] <josepht> rsalveti: my test was with cdimage and -b and all the same sound for ringtones
[21:57] <tedg> cyphermox, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6034442/
[21:57] <asac> stgraber: there?
[21:57] <iBotPeaches> was wondering if anyone could take a look at my kmsg log, its an oppo find 5 trying to boot ubuntu that sat for about 30 minutes without booting, so I figured something was wrong http://ibotpeaches.com/last_kmsg
[21:58] <tedg> cyphermox, Seems like that should be more permissive though...
[21:58] <cyphermox> tedg: yeah, I don't think that's likely to break anything
[21:58] <cyphermox> phablet is in the admin group anyway
[21:59] <rsalveti> music player working with wavs
[21:59] <rsalveti> josepht: weird, let me reboot to see
[21:59] <tedg> cyphermox, The interesting thing is that rsalveti is seeing a dbus message for getting properties denied.
[21:59] <tedg> cyphermox, So something had to be blocking indicator-network from connecting.
[22:00] <cyphermox> I don't have any such message
[22:00] <tedg> Me neither
[22:00] <tedg> cyphermox, Do you have network items in the menu?
[22:00] <rsalveti> right, but which images are you both using?
[22:00] <rsalveti> started having that error with the second friday's image
[22:00] <cyphermox> tedg: no, just the connection I had previously on disk
[22:01] <cyphermox> there should be two or three other wifi networks in range
[22:01] <tedg> No clue about the image.  But I've dist-upgraded it.
[22:01] <cyphermox> tedg: it matches the list of networks from NM
[22:01] <cyphermox> tedg:  try nmcli dev wifi list
[22:01] <tedg> rsalveti, ^
[22:02] <rsalveti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6034457/
[22:02] <rsalveti> fails
[22:02] <tedg> Woot!  I'm certain the bug falls on cyphermox's side of the fence then!
[22:02] <tedg> ;-)
[22:02] <cyphermox> nah
[22:03] <cyphermox> rsalveti: NM isn't running on your phone
[22:03] <rsalveti> it is
[22:03] <rsalveti> root      1219  0.0  0.3  40820  6056 ?        Ssl  21:12   0:02 NetworkManager
[22:03] <cyphermox> then something is royal broke in dbus
[22:03] <tedg> You guys should meet halfway.  Florida at midnight!
[22:03] <rsalveti> even worked after I copied my connection with phablet-network-setup
[22:04] <tedg> Perhaps something in /var/log/upstart/networking.log?
[22:05] <rsalveti> rebooting, will check
[22:05] <tyhicks> rsalveti: is that dbus version 1.6.12-0ubuntu2 ?
[22:06] <rsalveti> still empty
[22:06] <cyphermox> tyhicks: yes, it is
[22:06] <rsalveti> nmcli failed as well
[22:06] <rsalveti> ii  dbus                                                  1.6.12-0ubuntu2                             armhf        simple interprocess messaging system (daemon and utilities)
[22:06] <rsalveti> tedg: ^
[22:07] <tyhicks> thanks, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't ubuntu4, to rule out a potential bug in the dbus package that I just uploaded
[22:07] <cyphermox> I don't know what it is
[22:07] <rsalveti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6034466/
[22:07] <cyphermox> tbh, I'm busy with mtp
[22:08] <rsalveti> nm is up, even connected with my 3g
[22:08] <rsalveti> cyphermox: anything I can do to help debugging?
[22:08] <cyphermox> rsalveti: debugging logs
[22:08] <cyphermox> but it doesn't seem to me like it's NM
[22:08] <cyphermox> wpa perhaps, or dbus
[22:08] <rsalveti> dbus monitor?
[22:09] <rsalveti> just finish your mtp stuff then give this a try
[22:09] <rsalveti> just flash latest with -b
[22:09] <cyphermox> not wpa, wpa hasn't changed in too long
[22:09] <cyphermox> I did reflash already
[22:09] <rsalveti> clean?
[22:09] <rsalveti> plars: you were also getting this with 27.2, right?
[22:10] <plars> rsalveti: I just reflashed with -b, getting what?
[22:10] <rsalveti> plars: empty network indicator
[22:10] <plars> rsalveti: yes
[22:10] <rsalveti> right, then it's reproducible
[22:10] <rsalveti> let me file a bug for that
[22:11] <plars> rsalveti: 'nmcli dev wifi list' shows me a list of APs though
[22:11] <rsalveti> interesting
[22:12] <tedg> plars, As root or phablet?
[22:12] <rsalveti> yeah
[22:12] <plars> tedg: as root
[22:12] <rsalveti> run as phablet
[22:12] <plars> yeah, I see :)
[22:13] <rsalveti> plars: cyphermox: bug 1217596
[22:13] <rsalveti> plars: please confirm
[22:13] <tedg> Okay, I need to run, ping me if there's anything else on my side.
[22:13] <tedg> 'night folks
[22:13] <plars> done
[22:14] <rsalveti> asac: bug 1217596
[22:14] <spanner3003>  i have a nexus 7  wifi can we try to get sound/video working on it?  i can give logcat test est..
[22:14] <rsalveti> plars: can you test jack detection with mako?
[22:14] <rsalveti> plars: not sure if my cable, but I'm only getting the left speaker
[22:15] <plars> rsalveti: sure, what are you trying? ringtone? or call? or video?
[22:15] <asac> rsalveti: ok... how about sound?
[22:15] <asac> the networking one doesnt sound "too bad" :)
[22:16] <rsalveti> can play mp3 just fine after installing gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly
[22:16] <plars> rsalveti: playing a video, I get sound from both sides
[22:16] <rsalveti> plars: just audio, can be video as well
[22:16] <rsalveti> lol, device is suspended when playing audio, nice
[22:16] <rsalveti> things working as expected
[22:17] <rsalveti> asac: I wouldn't make it green with that bug in place
[22:17] <rsalveti> but not my call
[22:17] <rsalveti> sound is fine with mako
[22:17] <rsalveti> no regression it seems
[22:17] <rsalveti> now moving to maguro
[22:17] <plars> video is *super* laggy though
[22:17] <rsalveti> yeah, software decode
[22:17] <rsalveti> once we removed qtubuntu-media, we also lost hardware decoding
[22:18] <asac> rsalveti: ah ... still mako
[22:18] <asac> yeah makois already blessed/rubberstamped :)
[22:18] <asac> hehe
[22:18] <asac> even though network indicator is still a big thing
[22:18] <asac> puts me on the edge :)
[22:19] <rsalveti> speaker phone also working
[22:20] <asac> rsalveti: maguro?
[22:20] <asac> guess not :)
[22:20] <rsalveti> mako, maguro is flashing still
[22:21] <rsalveti> for mako http://paste.ubuntu.com/6034497/
[22:21] <rsalveti> plars: see if it's the same for you
[22:24] <plars> rsalveti: interesting, jack doesn't seem to work with music player
[22:24] <plars> rsalveti: or to be specific, it plays over the headphone and the speaker
[22:24] <rsalveti> yeah
[22:24] <rsalveti> that's the behavior I got as well
[22:24] <rsalveti> but that's fine, I guess we still didn't yet define the audio policies
[22:25] <plars> rsalveti: I had both headphones on at the beginning so I just retried with video and it does the same there
[22:26] <harris> whats the difference between ubuntu for android and ubuntu touch
[22:26] <plars> oh I see you noted it there already :)
[22:26] <plars> rsalveti: worth mentioning the camera as well (confirmed after -b it doesn't work for me either)
[22:27] <rsalveti> plars: yeah, that one I'm fixing as we speak
[22:27] <rsalveti> :-)
[22:27] <rsalveti> but let me first test maguro
[22:27] <rsalveti> seems that's the one that needs a bit of more love
[22:28] <barry> stgraber: yay.  any ideas on how to unbrick my n7?
[22:29] <harris> whats the difference between ubuntu for android and ubuntu touch
[22:32] <harris> whats the difference between ubuntu for android and ubuntu touch
[22:32] <stgraber> barry: the insufficient privilege stuff sounds like your user not having enough rights to access the USB port, not a device issue
[22:33] <stgraber> barry: does flashing the latest one work at least?
[22:33] <barry> stgraber: i did another factory reset, and again at reboot, it's hanging on the google screen.  but now i can adb shell to it and i get busybox
[22:34] <barry> stgraber: flashing doesn't work "/system/bin/sh: getprop: not found"
[22:34] <stgraber> barry: did you try flashing when the device is in recovery mode?
[22:34] <barry> stgraber: not yet!
[22:34] <stgraber> barry: getprop isn't available from the initrd but it should be available in the recovery environment
[22:35] <stgraber> barry: when in busybox, the dmesg output may tell you what's going on (look for "initrd: *" lines)
[22:36] <barry> stgraber: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6034566/
[22:37] <stgraber> barry: that tells me blank userdata partition, so something must have gone pretty wrong when doing the initial flash :)
[22:37] <barry> stgraber: yeah ;)
[22:38] <stgraber> barry: if that happens again, look at /cache/recovery/log from the recovery environment
[22:38] <barry> stgraber: phablet-flash seemed all happy though.
[22:38] <barry> i'm in recovery mode now. wonder if i can reflash it
[22:39] <barry> still no getprop
[22:42] <barry> well, anyway -> dinner
[22:47] <Umeaboy> Is the Samsung Galaxy Tab P1000 out of the question to use ubuntu-touch?
[22:52] <plars> rsalveti: was there a bug for the camera thing already? It shows up failed (as I would expect) in the automated tests so I'd like to tag it if there is
[22:52] <rsalveti> plars: not yet, working on a fix directly, but feel free to open one
[22:53] <plars> rsalveti: ok, I'll probably skip lots of logs and details since you are already working on it and well aware
[22:54] <rsalveti> yeah, just a simple bug is fine
[22:54] <rsalveti> I can confirm
[22:57] <plars> rsalveti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/touch-preview-images/+bug/1217613
[22:58] <mijk> hi, anyone running Ubuntu on their Nexus 10?
[22:59] <rsalveti> plars: thanks
[23:03] <rsalveti> Aug 27 23:02:38 ubuntu-phablet kernel: [  182.571105] type=1400 audit(1377644558.856:74): apparmor="DENIED" operation="capable" parent=1 profile="/usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-ofono" pid=1657 comm="threaded-ml" capability=19  capname="sys_ptrace"
[23:03] <rsalveti> Aug 27 23:02:38 ubuntu-phablet kernel: [  182.571136] type=1400 audit(1377644558.856:75): apparmor="DENIED" operation="ptrace" parent=1 profile="/usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-ofono" pid=1657 comm="threaded-ml" target=044590C4044590C4081C23C508F459C410C459C410C459C407
[23:03] <rsalveti> hm, with maguro
[23:04] <rsalveti> sound is working, but can't hear it properly as the volume seems to be low
[23:04] <asac> rsalveti: how can i check what the volume is? the indicator seems to believe its 100%
[23:04] <mijk> how does one get 3D acceleration on a Nexus 10?
[23:06] <jjohansen> rsalveti: add
[23:06] <jjohansen>   capability ptrace,
[23:06] <jjohansen> to the ofono profile, for the other message run
[23:06] <jjohansen>   aa-decode on the value of target=
[23:06] <asac> rsalveti: so yeah connecting a headset to jack makes it work
[23:06] <asac> but not without :)
[23:06] <asac> cant hear a thing
[23:07] <rsalveti> it got back to the normal volume after opening up alsamixer
[23:07] <rsalveti> seems the ucm files are not doing the right thing
[23:07] <rsalveti> it's also getting errors when using the hall
[23:07] <jjohansen> rsalveti: oh hrmmm don't bother with aa-decode, you have just hit a bug
[23:07] <rsalveti> besides a kernel crash
[23:08] <iBotPeaches> okay more progress, got my oppo booting (just with no display) :p kmsg screams about ACL stuff http://ibotpeaches.com/last_kmsg (is that related to selinux?)
[23:08] <jjohansen> rsalveti: can you open a bug with logs etc
[23:08] <rsalveti> jjohansen: sure, against which package?
[23:09] <jjohansen> rsalveti: linux
[23:09] <asac> rsalveti: ok. thanks for checking. let me know what happened when you call it a day... i am off now
[23:09] <asac> :)
[23:10] <rsalveti> jjohansen: thanks
[23:10] <jjohansen> iBotPeaches: what kernel are you using?
[23:11] <jjohansen> iBotPeaches: its not apparmor nor selinux
[23:12] <iBotPeaches> jjohansen: Linux version 3.4.0-perf-svn1451 (oppo@oppo-OptiPlex-990) (gcc version 4.6.x-google 20120106 (prerelease) (GCC) ) #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Feb 6 11:40:03 CST 2013
[23:21] <rsalveti> jjohansen: bug 1217618, opened it against linux-maguro
[23:22] <jjohansen> rsalveti: okay thanks
[23:22] <penguincoder> hi guys, i am having trouble booting into a home-built version of ubuntu touch for the toro device. i either get stuck at the google logo or a black screen
[23:22] <rsalveti> jjohansen: any other log besides syslog?
[23:22] <penguincoder> i have successfully built cm-10.1 for the device, too.
[23:23] <sbeattie> jjohansen: is there a bug with aa-decode not handling 'target=' ?
[23:23] <jjohansen> sbeattie: not that I know of, the output is complete garbage
[23:24] <sbeattie> oh
[23:24] <jjohansen> rsalveti: I thought there was a kernel crash too?
[23:25] <jjohansen> sbeattie: we need to figure out if its just aa-decode or the kernel side
[23:27] <rsalveti> jjohansen: sorry, the crash seems to be part of the sound subsystem actually
[23:27] <jjohansen> sbeattie: my bet is the kernel
[23:28] <jjohansen> rsalveti: hrmm, okay


[09:29] <henninge> Hi noodles775!
[09:31] <noodles775> Hi henninge :)
[09:31] <henninge> ;)
[09:31] <henninge> noodles775: could you please have a look at jtv's review UI-wise? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/translationimportqueueentry-info/+merge/18963
[09:32] <henninge> noodles775: I just attached some screenshots for you to look at. Scroll down to after my code review. ;)
[09:32] <noodles775> henninge: I can, but it'd be great to check first if sinzui was keen (afaiui, he's keen to build up ui reviews). I can then go through it after that if required.
[09:32] <henninge> s/review/merge proposal/
[09:33] <noodles775> But if it's urgent, I can do it today?
[09:33] <henninge> noodles775: will sinzui not be available today? It could wait until he gets up ...
[09:35] <henninge> noodles775: according to Matt's mail he should be here, so it can wait.
[09:35] <henninge> noodles775: thanks
[10:22] <henninge> Hi jpds! I have not yet been able to land your branch. The ec2 test runs kept breaking off.
[10:22] <henninge> jpds: can you please merge the current devel into your branch and push it again?
[10:23] <henninge> I am talking about lp:~jpds/launchpad/fix_518232, btw. ;-)
[10:25] <jpds> henninge: I get http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/373098/
[10:25] <jpds> henninge: On an up-to-date devel.
[10:25] <henninge> jpds: sorry, that was the wrong way round ;-)
[10:26] <jpds> Ah, I get Nothing to do.
[10:26] <henninge> jpds: make sure to revert that merge on devel. "bzr revert" should do it if you did not commit.
[10:27] <henninge> jpds: what I meant was this : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/373099/
[10:27] <jpds> I did bzr revert --no-backup
[10:34] <al-maisan> hello allenap, I have an easy branch for you :)
[10:34] <al-maisan> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~al-maisan/launchpad/flip-the-switch-516545/+merge/18992
[10:34] <allenap> al-maisan: Cool, on it :)
[10:35] <al-maisan> allenap: thanks!
[10:37] <jpds> henninge: All done.
[10:38] <henninge> jpds: cool, I'll try landing again.
[10:52] <allenap> al-maisan: r=me, with one small comment.
[10:52] <al-maisan> allenap: thanks, on the phone.
[11:11] <henninge> jpds: ec2 test instance is running as usual this time. Looking good. ;)
[13:25] <jtv> henninge: updated...  it did grow the diff some.
[14:33] <henninge> jtv: ping
[14:38] <mrevell> allenap, review a branch for me NOW
[14:38] <allenap> mrevell: Aye aye.
[14:38] <mrevell> allenap, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~matthew.revell/launchpad/ppa-add-repo-help-492283/+merge/19010
[14:38] <mrevell> ta
[14:39] <bigjools> how to win friends and influence reviews, by mrevell
[14:39] <mrevell> yessir
[14:41] <allenap> mrevell: rejected=me, incorrectly formatted cover note.
[14:43] <mrevell> allenap, Are you complaing about my TPS reports?
[14:45] <allenap> mrevell: Launchpad cannot compete in the marketplace without correct TPS reports. Please sign up for the TPS refresher programme.
[14:47] <allenap> mrevell: How the (&&%$%^& do I see this new help on launchpad.dev?
[14:49] <jtv> henninge: pong
[14:57] <mrevell> allenap, good question, I take your point -- https://launchpad.dev/~cprov/+archive/ppa
[15:22] <al-maisan> hello jtv, would you be in a position to review a branch of mine?
[15:22] <al-maisan> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~al-maisan/launchpad/disabled-copyarch-519665/+merge/19019
[15:22] <jtv> al-maisan: right after the reviewers meeting and team standup, sure
[15:22] <al-maisan> ah
[15:22] <al-maisan> oh
[15:22] <al-maisan> I missed that..
[15:24] <jtv> allenap: should I do sinzui's branch first?
[15:25] <allenap> jtv: Okay, sounds good.
[15:25] <jtv> al-maisan: so you're in line after curtis then
[15:25] <al-maisan> yup
[15:37] <abentley> allenap, jtv: Could you please review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~abentley/launchpad/forbidden-oops/+merge/19021 ?
[15:37] <allenap> abentley: Sure.
[15:37] <abentley> allenap, thanks.
[15:42] <jtv> allenap: I don't see sinzui's MP anywhere... do you?
[15:43] <sinzui> jtv: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~sinzui/launchpad/launchapd-apocalypse-1/+merge/18462
[15:43] <allenap> jtv: There it is ;)
[15:43] <jtv> oh, that review's already been claimed
[15:44] <jtv> sinzui: do you want it handled by OCR or stick with Edwin/Abel?
[15:45] <sinzui> jtv: I really want the branch landed, so please review it. It is very boring.
[15:45] <jtv> sinzui: you lost me at "boring"
[15:45] <jtv> but alright :)
[15:46] <sinzui> jtv: the migrater script create large diffs of mechanical changes
[15:46] <jtv> now if only we had a mechanical reviewer...
[15:47] <jtv> sinzui: as for the renaming, personally I'm fine with "hwdb" as a prefix (which must be short) but "hardwaredb" as the module name (which must be reasonable but legible).
[15:51] <jtv> sinzui: if test_views.py is new, not copied over, then please update the copyright year
[15:51] <jtv> although this one looks familiar... if it's a copy-paste job, shouldn't we have a helper for this?
[15:51] <sinzui> jtv: right, the migrater assumes we did what we claimed we would do in 2009
[15:52] <jtv> sinzui: electric monk?
[15:52] <jtv> We're finally writing software to believe things for us that we don't have time to believe ourselves now?
[15:53] <sinzui> jtv:I think this is a case where many teams did not take this effort seriously. This issue looks like a large mass of uncompleted work
[15:53] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: I'm starting to review your forbidden-oops branch.
[15:54] <jtv> sinzui: you mean the migrator?
[15:54] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, allenap already agreed to review it.
[15:54] <sinzui> jtv: canonical.launchpad should not exist.
[15:55] <jtv> sinzui: your branch brings us a step closer.  Maybe file a foundations bug for the duplicate file?
[15:55] <sinzui> jtv: it remains the primary cause of circular imports, code that does not follow our style, code that you must hunt to fine, code that you cannot test on the module level for the feature
[15:55] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, I'm fine with you reviewing it, just want to avoid two people reviewing it.
[15:56] <EdwinGrubbs> makes sense
[15:56] <sinzui> I started another branch that modifies the migrater to support services so that I can move them on mass.
[15:56] <EdwinGrubbs> allenap: do you want me to take it.
[15:57] <allenap> EdwinGrubbs: If abentley is happy with that, then sure. I'll start it in just a few minutes otherwise; just finishing al-maisan's review.
[15:57] <jtv> sinzui: ambiguous parse...  sorry to be dense but is "support" a verb in that sentence?
[15:57] <jtv> (I could read it either way)
[15:57] <EdwinGrubbs> allenap, abentley: I'll start on it now.
[16:00] <sinzui> jtv: many of the unmigrated code should be subtrees in lp/serivces. Each has its own interfaces and models directory
[16:01] <jtv> sinzui: oic, that makes sense yes—a lot of the stuff that's still in l.c.l is there for that reason, I think
[16:02] <jtv> sinzui: about the review... in lib/lp/hardwaredb/tests/test_doc.py, you're using our long-list notation style for an arguments list.  I didn't know you could have a trailing comma there!
[16:02] <sinzui> jtv: I think pep8.py demands it to be there. The file was made by the migrater
[16:03] <sinzui> of, no it wasn't, I had to edit it
[16:03] <noodles775> Hi sinzui, would you have time for a small UI review? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~michael.nelson/launchpad/509370-access-non-unique-ppa-name/+merge/19022
[16:03] <jtv> sinzui: I didn't know pep8 said that... it's certainly not what we normally do.  Would you be willing to take it out?
[16:03] <noodles775> sinzui: it's not urgent, so I can wait for someone else if not.
[16:04] <noodles775> mrevell: Do you mind going over the wording change on the above MP too?
[16:04]  * mrevell reads up
[16:04] <mrevell> noodles775, would like to
[16:05] <mrevell> meaning, yes, I'll look now
[16:05] <noodles775> mrevell: thanks.
[16:05] <jtv> sinzui: in the migrater, you're protecting the removal of the setup and teardown hooks against exceptions... is that specifically to guard against the case where they were never inserted?  If so, better to specify the exception type (and make sure they're in the safe order)
[16:05] <sinzui> jtv: it does say that. one day I will replace my navel-lint script that I gave Launchpad with my  pure python lint that I switched to last year
[16:07] <jtv> sinzui: what does say what?
[16:07] <sinzui> jtv: One of the setup/teardowns was written oddly in the code and that killed the migrater. I added the try/except to see it complete. so that I could manually fix the issue. I discovered that the code was migrated correctly, so I left the try/except there
[16:08] <sinzui> jtv: I would rather 1) remove the script, and 2) other teams complete the work we agreed they would do. I am just trying to finish their work
[16:12] <deryck> hi allenap, jtv, and EdwinGrubbs -- I put one on the queue if someone can spare the review.
[16:20] <jtv> sinzui, deryck: otp
[16:25] <jtv> sinzui: I don't suppose there's any chance of this messing up a migration, ever?
[16:25] <jtv> the try/except clause, I mean?
[16:26] <sinzui> jtv:I can remove it since I am done with it. I usually do that, but I think that is also a contributing factor why engineers are not using the tool. Only jml has committed fixes to the script besides myself
[16:27] <jtv> sinzui: no point in leaving it broken, I guess—especially now that what's left is the modules that weren't migrated easily early on
[16:27] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: review sent
[16:27] <jtv> sinzui: so if this solves a real problem, leave it in.  But a comment would be helpful either way.
[16:48] <jtv> on call: allenap, jtv, Edwin || reviewing: al-maisan, -, - || queue [] || This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com || https://code.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+activereviews
[16:48] <jtv> allenap: did you take muharem's branch?
[16:49] <jtv> allenap: I just went over it as well, so if you're just starting, I can take it over from you
[16:49] <allenap> jtv: I did one of his branches recently.
[16:49] <jtv> allenap: the one about suspending jobs for disabled archives
[16:49] <allenap> jtv: That's the badger.
[16:49]  * jtv refreshes page
[16:50] <jtv> oh right
[16:50] <jtv> I do wonder what the pre-imp said about re-enabling archives
[16:51] <jtv> I had a lot of trouble with that test function as well—the scope of the "not" in the name is ambiguous.  AFAICS it would've been as easy, but clearer, to write to separate checks
[16:52] <allenap> jtv: Yeah... you should comment. I didn't think about that.
[16:53]  * jtv comments
[17:00] <jtv> allenap: done
[17:03] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, thanks for your review.
[17:38] <jtv> allenap: good night!
[17:38] <allenap> jtv: Cheerio :)
[17:58] <jtv> EdwinGrubbs: you're on your own
[17:59] <EdwinGrubbs> bye
[18:22] <bac> sinzui: where is the branch you mentioned?  even if it isn't ready to review i'd like to look at it.
[18:28] <sinzui> bac: indeed I was about to tell you to look at lp:~sinzui/launchpad/all-upstream-links . There is a test I need to update since beuno and I decided to present the table differently.
[18:46] <bac> sinzui: is 'status' too weasly as in 'Upstream information status"
[18:46] <sinzui> bac:umm...yes it is
[18:48] <bac> yeah, i thought so
[18:48] <sinzui> bac: This information is not necessarily about state. I think of these points as services, but I know that is not why we need to know them. This is really about the points where a project connects to different kinds of contributors
[18:49] <bac> what if were just labeled "Upstream Connections"
[18:50] <sinzui> bac: okay, I like that better than every other thought I have had....
[18:50] <bac> just grasping at straws here
[18:51] <sinzui> bac: I merged this information into the project information portlet. Maybe we can test this portlet name by naming a new portlet on the project page. <Community|Contributor> connections?
[18:52] <bac> ok
[18:54] <sinzui> bac: think the launchpad projects you work with. Would owners complete this information if it were presented with this name?
[18:55] <sinzui> bac: is "Upstream contributor connections" a better name for your portlet?
[18:56] <bac> i like the layout you've done.  but i think we need to make it easier to navigate to the action.
[18:57] <bac> if i wanted to set the bug tracker where is it done?
[18:58] <sinzui> bac: I think that is the next blueprint...
[18:58] <sinzui> we really need to get this blueprints's UI on edge for critique while we work on the upstream side...
[18:59] <bac> so links to the places to set the data will come later?
[19:00] <sinzui> bac: There are several issues, that are too much for this release: 1) change permissions so that you can set the information, and 2) change the forms so that the information can be set in context
[19:00] <bac> sinzui: ok.  that makes sense.
[19:01] <sinzui> bac: Can you really set the series branch from a vocabulary? And as for the f&cking bug tracker. you need to go to the hidden page to register it, then find the field on the project to set it--we can solve this like the Create release link on series I hope
[19:08] <bac> sinzui: do we want to macrotize the work you've done...or push the bool computations into a view mixin?
[19:08] <sinzui> bac: I think so.
[19:08] <bac> sinzui: which?  both?
[19:09] <sinzui> bac: my branch introduces: <metal:yes-no define-macro="yes-no">
[19:09] <bac> i'd say both.  i'd rather have the login in a view
[19:09] <bac> yeah, the yes-no is cool
[19:10] <bac> but i don't want to repeat  tal:define="bool not:series/translations_autoimport_mode/enumvalue:NO_IMPORT">
[19:10] <bac> and the bug tracker logic is more complicated than you've shown b/c it has to take parent project group info into account
[19:11] <sinzui> If the tables I created work for the portlet, I would push them into either in a macro or an view that exposes the four points
[19:12] <bac> sinzui: ok, let me steal from your branch and see if it works.  we can refactor afterwards
[19:12] <sinzui> bac: what? why can my project group have a bug tracker but not let me report a bug on the project group?
[19:13] <bac> sinzui: if firefox.bugtracker is None and official_malone is None but mozilla has a bug tracker then it will inherit mozilla's
[19:13] <bac> that's my understanding
[19:14] <sinzui> I did not know that, and that make me very upset that I cannot report a bug against mozilla
[19:15] <sinzui> bac: but given this, I favor a view that adapts a series or project that exposes the information. so that the template remains stupid
[19:15] <bac> i'm all for stupid-ass templates
[19:15] <bac> sinzui: but i think i've explained myself badly
[19:15] <bac> or even poorly
[19:16] <sinzui> bac: it should adapt the series because that is what is in the Packaging object
[19:16] <bac> you can report a bug against mozilla and firefox could have its own bug tracker but if it doesn't it uses the parent's
[19:20] <sinzui> bac: You cannot report a bug against launchpad-project...it defaults to blueprints. Most bugs reported in blueprints were from users who know launchpad is busted and they could not identify which componenet
[19:21] <bac> i didn't know that
[19:21]  * bac has never tried
[19:21] <sinzui> project groups do get a working dupe finder though...much better than our retarded decision to ask users to report bugs against /launchpad. Most bugs reported there are dupes. At least the bugs reported against blueprints are not
[19:58] <sinzui> bac: I updated my tests to check for "Upstream Contributor Connections" in the table. Are you working on a view+template to adapt the series to to two list layout?
[19:59] <bac> sinzui: not yet.  i was going to do some hard code experiments to see what how i can format the existing portlet
[20:00] <sinzui> bac: I was going to put my branch into review. I can instead extract the portable info to a view and template now
[20:01] <bac> sinzui: that would be good
[20:01] <sinzui> okay I will start
[23:07] <EdwinGrubbs> bac: I just wanted to check if you had any concerns about my reply to your review since I had left some of the changes out due to complications.
[23:07] <bac> nope
[23:07] <bac> sorry i didn't comment
[23:07] <bac> EdwinGrubbs: i did mark it as 'approved' after your reply...which was a subtle way to signal consent
[23:08] <EdwinGrubbs> ok, thanks. I hadn't noticed that it was approved before, or I would have asked you earlier.
[23:14] <sinzui> barry: land it
[23:14] <barry> sinzui: rock
[23:15] <sinzui> funny, that is almost the same as my review
[23:15] <barry> sinzui: :)
[23:15] <barry> sinzui: while i have you here, can you verify for me?  we only store oauth tokens for Persons not Accounts, right?
[23:17] <sinzui> barry: it is on the Person
[23:17] <barry> sinzui: that's what i thought.  what i don't know is whether we can limit reviews to folks who have lp accounts.  they might only have logins to ubuntu.com
[23:18] <barry> if it's the latter, then the problem we have is that we need to verify who is rating an app, and i think without oauth we have no way to do that
[23:18] <sinzui> barry: since lp profiles are created on demand when someone logins to lp, it is kind of moot
[23:19] <barry> sinzui: hmm... so let's say they've never heard about lp, but they've bought something from the store or set up their u1 account...
[23:19] <sinzui> barry: PersonSet.enrsurePerson('ubuntu-one-user') will create the user when he uses lp
[23:20] <barry> sinzui: does that work if the first time they see lp is through an oauth request via launchpadlib?
[23:20] <sinzui> I wouldn't know.
[23:20] <barry> sinzui: okay, i'll try to hunt that down
[23:21] <sinzui> auth is a foundations/isd matter. I see from bugs too many parts of launchpad try to woek with an account...the look up for a person fails the moment the email is accessed, but by using ensurePerson(), the conversion happens without pain
[23:21] <barry> sinzui: it feels like we're really close to something usable.  essentially we just want to use lp to verify who the person is and link their review to a login.u.com account
[23:23] <sinzui> barry: I think the crux of the issue is oauth. The steps are:
[23:23] <sinzui> 1) user submits a review to lp
[23:23] <sinzui> 2) lp gets user via ensurePerson()
[23:23] <sinzui> 3) lp asks user to authorise the script
[23:24] <barry> sinzui: yes, i think that's about it
[23:24] <sinzui> barry: you could use anonymous, and it may be possible to insert the user who is using the client
[23:24] <barry> sinzui: i don't follow
[23:25] <sinzui> I do not know how it is possible to allow an anonymous script to do an insert, but if it could happen, the script passes the review and with the user the client *claims* is using it
[23:26] <sinzui> I have never used anonymous access.


[00:13] <jrwren> Havenstance_: yes, looks like it.
[00:13] <Havenstance_> jrwren, that was a virtual machine running it.  I went from 4TB to 12TB (adding 2 - 4TB drives) without a reboot
[00:15] <Havenstance_> jrwren, I rebooted cuz the mobo was too old to support hot swap :)
[00:15] <Havenstance_> at home I use a bunch of old stuff that i've thrown together
[00:25] <mrgoodcat> Havenstance_: if you want to check if you are vuln to the heartbleed to `openssl version -a` and check your build date
[00:25] <mrgoodcat> should be built in the last 2 days
[00:34] <Havenstance_> okay
[00:34] <Havenstance_> yeah those in #xubuntu were rather rude and unhelpful about it
[00:35] <Havenstance_> mon apr 7 :) should be good, ty man
[00:43] <cmaloney> http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/superdirt-algoriddims
[00:43] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat:
[00:44] <jrwren> Havenstance_: dpkg -p libssl1.0.0
[00:45] <jrwren> the Version field there should be newer than what is listed on this page: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2165-1/
[00:45] <Havenstance_> jrwren, thanks for the info man :)
[00:46] <Havenstance_> I just built this install from USB like 2 days ago
[00:46] <Havenstance_> idk if that matters but not really worried about it, i'll be upgrading to 14.04 lts soon as it goes live
[00:47] <mrgoodcat> upgrade tomorrow
[00:47] <mrgoodcat> final beta
[00:47] <mrgoodcat> and the tubes will be faster
[00:54] <jrwren> it matters :)
[00:54] <jrwren> upgrade now. help test the betas.
[00:57] <Havenstance_> sadly enough, this hardware won't run 14.04 yet I tried a daily build the other day
[00:57] <Havenstance_> it died
[01:05] <cmaloney> http://www.lordi.fi/
[01:13] <jrwren> am tip:  echo BYOBU_PYTHON=python >> .byoburc   to prevent byobu from running python -c 'import snack' EVERY time it refreshes status line
[01:22] <cmaloney> jrwren: I stopped using byobu in favor of tmux
[01:38] <cmaloney> https://github.com/paultag/hy
[01:39] <cmaloney> https://github.com/hylang/hy/blob/master/hy/importer.py
[01:47] <jrwren> i use byobu-tmux
[01:48] <jrwren> i am a sucker for status line
[02:13] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: http://openmetalcast.com
[02:13] <cmaloney> ;)
[06:44] <greg-g> holy shit, this wikipedian died this weekend in a climbing accident, this is her last edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Peer_review/Bringing_Up_Baby/archive2&diff=prev&oldid=601663764
[06:44] <greg-g> so sad.
[10:46] <cmaloney> :(
[10:46] <cmaloney> Always sad to hear someone pass away
[13:13] <Havenstance> is there a list of sites somewhere that were hit by heartbleed?
[13:13] <Havenstance> I keep getting questions on this because our local news channel just picked this up this morning
[13:14] <brousch> All of them
[13:14] <Havenstance> brousch, that's kind of what I was leaning towards.
[13:15] <Havenstance> because even if the site in question doesn't use openSSL that doesn't mean that the DNS Server or something else wouldn't be using it potentially exposing passwords
[13:17] <jrwren> DNS Server or something else?
[13:17] <Havenstance> I know our network server has openssl 1.0.1d or something crazy like that on it.
[13:17] <Havenstance> jrwren, gateways, hosts, datacenters. all the information goes thru them first does it not?
[13:18] <jrwren> umm... yes?
[13:18] <jrwren> well, not "hosts"
[13:18] <jrwren> everything is a "host"
[13:18] <Havenstance> or am i understanding this wrong
[13:18] <jrwren> it sounds like you are understanding this wrong.
[13:18] <jrwren> all information definitely does not go to a dns server.
[13:19] <jrwren> this isn't a packet sniffing vulnerability either, so just becuase https traffic traverses a gateway, does not make it inspectable
[13:19] <Havenstance> okay so the purpose of open ssl is you call out thru the DNS Server gateway all that jazz, then establish a secure connection with that site alone
[13:20] <jrwren> "call out thru teh dns server" does nto makes sense.
[13:21] <Havenstance> but if the site you are calling out to is vulnerable then your secure connection is compromised. DNS, Gateway, and anything in between no longer matter after the secure connection is made with the website no?
[13:21] <jrwren> I can't understand what you are saying. You aren't using the common words used to describe network connections and sessions.
[13:22] <Havenstance> I havent even finished my first cup of coffee cut me some slack :D not fully awake yet :)
[13:22] <jrwren> hahah! me too.
[13:23] <Havenstance> what im asking is when you establish a secure connection, does it still call for DNS Translation after the connection is established? My understanding of OpenSSL is about zero to be honest
[13:24] <jrwren> after? no.
[13:24] <Havenstance> Case in point, My network configuration here, I have the client machines, who route through the server, the server hosts DHCP, DNS, and a VPN Tunnel, Then I route to a router which does essentially the same thing as the server except its DNS calls to my ISP's DNS Server, from there its handed to my ISP and they route the traffic through the closest datacenters and on to the destination
[13:25] <Havenstance> if there's a breach at any point in between isn't there a problem?
[13:25] <jrwren> define "breach"
[13:25] <Havenstance> breach being a heartbleed vulnerability
[13:25] <jrwren> right.
[13:25] <jrwren> then no, no problem.
[13:26] <Havenstance> okay, because my system actually establishes a SSL connection with the destination not the points in between
[13:26] <jrwren> right
[13:26] <Havenstance> perfect, I understood it right, I just couldn't explain it to save my ass this morning lol
[13:26] <Havenstance> btw, list of sites here https://github.com/musalbas/heartbleed-masstest/blob/master/top1000.txt
[13:27] <Havenstance> shows some vulnerable, some not vulnerable and some not using SSL
[13:27] <Havenstance> incase you get bombarded with questions about this over your office coffee pot this morning too
[16:19] <rick_h_> party party here come pycon!
[16:19] <jrwren> yay!
[16:35] <cmaloney> Woo woo
[17:05] <greg-g> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/04/10/wikimedias-response-to-the-heartbleed-security-vulnerability/
[17:15] <brousch> http://pyjvm.org/
[17:15] <jrwren> different from jython?
[17:15] <jrwren> OH GOD!
[17:16] <jrwren> brousch: why?!?!   why!!?!?
[17:17] <brousch> I don't know, but I wanted to share the wonder with you all
[17:18] <brousch> jython on pyjvm would be awesome
[17:22] <jrwren> pyjvm on jython on pyjvm
[17:23] <brousch> Can we run pyjvm on pypy?
[17:30] <jrwren> probably
[20:36] <mrgoodcat> hahahahahhaa
[20:36] <mrgoodcat> i wonder what posessed them to make that
[21:10] <jrwren> python + json + performance => terrible terrible terrible
[21:26] <rick_h_> jrwren: there's json libs that use c-helpers to go faster
[21:26] <rick_h_> actually thought the built in json did now :/
[21:28] <cmaloney> lo
[21:28] <jrwren> rick_h_: they suck.
[21:28] <jrwren> its like whoever wrote json and simplejson weren't python programmers and weren't C or Java programmers either.
[21:29] <jrwren> I'm pretty sure with a minor incision, I can make it much faster for my meniacle use case.
[22:42] <Havenstance_> ...
[22:43] <Havenstance_> so I get home, old lady packed up the house, she gone...
[23:01] <gamerchick02> whoa really? :(
[23:44] <jrwren> i got simplejson to do what I want. it ain't pretty.


[00:36] <user|70> Hi
[00:36] <user|70> When is the next release of kubuntu
[00:38] <tomreyn> user|70: there are two releases per year, one in april, one in october
[00:38] <tomreyn> !yy.mm | user|70
[03:35] <gu__> hello
[09:29] <ecureuil> c'est prévu quand (x)Ubuntu 22.04 ?
[10:21] <egor8799> hi?
[10:22] <egor8799> list
[10:22] <egor8799> help
[10:23] <egor8799> hello
[10:23] <egor8799> i'm using kubuntu 11 right now XD
[10:53] <egor8799> auh
 After i enter my password
 I see the plasma logo
 Not from the start , 2 or 3 weeks i think (re @IrcsomeBot: <tomreyn> Oov: where does it freeze exactly, what do you see at the time, which part of the boot is it at when it freezes? has this started happening recently on a system which you had installed for a while, or is this a fresh install and it happened from the start?)
 Some times the keyboard don't work (re @IrcsomeBot: <tomreyn> are there other problems? do you assume there can be hardware problems?)
 Kubuntu 20.04 lts (re @IrcsomeBot: <tomreyn> which ubuntu version are you running there, and which kernel version?)
[13:08] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:37] <derek01> http://gk5747.blogspot.com/
[13:39] <Maik> derek01: no spam please
[13:40] <derek01> Wheres Ircsomebot?
[13:42] <BluesKaj> that's the nick for telegram users
[13:42] <BluesKaj> and some matrix users were banned today
[13:43] <derek01> i just hack some guy camera feed. i am relaying the camera feed to my friend who going to meet me here. that is why i added the web link here.
[13:44] <Maik> derek01: you know that this is a Kubuntu support channel?
[13:44] <derek01> ya thats where he say he going to meet me
[13:44] <Maik> also hacking is not allowed here or in any other channels
[13:44] <BluesKaj> derek01, explain first before posting urls
[13:45] <Maik> derek01: it's all too weird imho, please don't use the support channel for this kind of stuff
[13:46] <derek01> that where he say he going to meet me
[13:46] <Maik> derek01: we got that by now. Try to meet elsewhere.
[13:46] <derek01> oh
[13:47] <derek01> you disrespect me tho
[13:48] <BluesKaj> not at all, you just have to do a little research into COC on IRC
[13:49] <derek01> i dont know what coc is. well. if ircsomebot come by, tell him to go to that link where all the camera feed are.
[13:49] <derek01> i go
 Ubuntu user and have bought laptop with 3840x2160 display - not thrilled with how Ubuntu handles scaling - does Kubuntu handle scaling better?  thinking about switching.
[22:54] <mybalzitch> the only diff you'd get is running wayland vs x11 I believe
[22:54] <mybalzitch> and depending on your gpu, wayland may not be an option
 I thought Plasma might handle scaling it better than Gnome - so, that doesn't have any effect?
 I thought Plasma might handle scaling better than Gnome - so, that doesn't have any effect?


[05:06] <dn4> why would ubuntu studio boot up an be missing letters
[05:06] <holstein> ?
[05:07] <dn4> it boots up and letters are missing
[05:08] <dn4> and I have to reboot a few times and they fix themselves
[05:08] <holstein> dn4: what letter?
[05:08] <holstein> on the keyboard? on the screen?
[05:08] <dn4> net ork
[05:08] <dn4> on the screen
[05:08] <holstein> network?
[05:08] <holstein> you mean, graphical elements?
[05:09] <holstein> !ati | dn4
[05:09] <holstein> i would install a proprietary driver if one is available
[05:09] <holstein> i would try booting a live CD with nomodest
[05:09] <holstein> !nomodeset
[05:10] <holstein> take a screenshot
[05:11] <dn4> next time it boots up like that I will
[05:11] <dn4> I am on an old HP Pavilion
[05:11] <dn4> onboard graphics
[05:12] <holstein> dn4: then, try the vesa driver... you can use nomodeset as i suggested, or try creating a custom xorg.conf
[05:12] <holstein> !vesa
[05:24] <dn4> just wanted to bring that up
[05:24] <dn4> I will be back later if some other issues happen
[07:28] <ntzrmtthihu777> bit of info usind dir2ogg? I need to used it to convert the .mid files that come with rpg maker xp because .ogg works out-of-box, but .mid is nigh impossible to get running under wine
[21:01]  * magic_silver_box slaps ChanServ around a bit with a large trout