[00:47] <nellery> Hi, I installed edubuntu-desktop from the addon CD, which made it so that my splash image isn't shown when I boot my computer
[00:47] <nellery> How do I make it so that it is shown?
[00:50] <stgraber> nellery: update-alternatives --config usplash-artwork.so
[00:50] <stgraber> nellery: then update-initramfs -u
[00:51] <nellery> stgraber: I get this output
[00:51] <nellery> There is only 1 program which provides usplash-artwork.so
[00:51] <nellery> (/usr/lib/usplash/usplash-theme-ubuntu.so). Nothing to configure.
[00:52] <nellery> I should mention that I removed the edubuntu-desktop package
[00:52] <stgraber> ok, so maybe the update-initramfs will be enough to fix
[00:53] <nellery> stgraber: thanks, restarting now to test it
[00:56] <nellery> stgraber: thanks a lot, that fixed it :)
[00:59] <stgraber> np
[04:25] <Ahmuck> is there a way to get edubuntu look and feel without the other programs (icons, background, fonts, etc.)
[04:28] <HedgeMag1> Ahmuck: I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you are asking -- you want to change Edubuntu's look/feel by changing theme elements such as icons, backgrounds, and fonts, or you want Edubuntu's theme elements without certain edubuntu apps?
[04:34] <Ahmuck> i want tu change the look and feel of ubuntu ltsp to edubuntu without having to install the edubuntu desktop
[04:34] <Ahmuck> yes, the latter
[04:39] <HedgeMag1> ahh, okay
[04:40] <HedgeMag1> Yes, you can download the Gnome theme, icons, etc from anyone who has edubuntu (or it may even be on the web somewhere) -- they do not require the edubuntu games and such
[04:40] <LaserJock> sbalneav!
[04:40] <LaserJock> sbalneav: dude, am I too late?
[04:41] <Ahmuck> nubae: i noticed your fat client section and it appears to be comprehensive.  i've not had a chance to try it yet
[04:41] <Ahmuck> HedgeMag1: theme not packaged seperatly ?
[04:42] <HedgeMag1> Ahmuck: I don't know if it is...I've never looked.
[04:43] <HedgeMag1> Ahmuck: If not, you can just get someone with an edubuntu box to tarball the stuff for you
[04:43] <HedgeMag1> Ahmuck: it basically consists of the backgrounds, icons, gnome theme, and gdm theme
[04:45] <Ahmuck> k, i migh do that through a vm
[05:26] <sbalneav> LaserJock: I was doing some stuff earlier
[05:26] <sbalneav> I'll do some stuff now
[05:29] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ltsp bugs?
[05:44] <sbalneav> yup
[05:44] <sbalneav> Working now.
[05:45] <sbalneav> 2 are cleared off
[05:45] <sbalneav> I'm applying a patch now for a third
[05:46] <LaserJock> sbalneav: are you keeping track of which ones are fixed in intrepid but need a SRU?
[06:07] <sbalneav> Yeah, will do, those are usually tagged "fix committed"
[06:28] <LaserJock> sbalneav: what you should do is mark Fix Commited for the main task
[06:28] <LaserJock> sbalneav: and then open up a Hardy task, using "Nominate for Release"
[06:29] <sbalneav> Ah, ok
[06:29] <highvoltage> ooh, sbalneav and LaserJock together!
[06:29] <sbalneav> Well, I'll work on it more tomorrow
[06:29] <sbalneav> 5 closed
[06:29] <sbalneav> comments on a bunch of others.
[06:29] <highvoltage> morning LaserJock and sbalneav
[06:29] <sbalneav> Morning!
[06:29] <LaserJock> sbalneav: yeah, I'm getting them in my bugmail
[06:29] <highvoltage> can I jump a question/suggestion on you?
[06:31]  * LaserJock runs
[06:31] <highvoltage> the local apps in intrepid is quite cool. I was wondering if the custom menu work that LaserJock has done before could be used to change menus on a client so that apps run locally if the client is strong enough
[06:33] <LaserJock> so essentially you want to have local apps replace remote apps when available?
[06:33] <highvoltage> available, and if the client has enough memory/cpu to support it
[06:34] <highvoltage> so that you could mix like, real old machines and new machines in a lab, and the old ones would pretty much automatically run it from the server
[06:34] <highvoltage> and your core 2 duos with 2gb ram or whatever would decide to run it locally
[06:35] <highvoltage> (if the app is available locally)
[06:35] <LaserJock> well, are the chroots different?
[06:35] <LaserJock> I can imagine putting custom menus in chroots
[06:36] <highvoltage> the ltsp clients would have a different chroot from the server
[06:36] <highvoltage> but the session is ran on the server, so the users would see the server's session
[06:36] <LaserJock> I just wondered if we could inject something into the client chroot
[06:37] <highvoltage> unless you want to run the session from the chroot for the big machines, but that would get too complicated for an admin since you'd have to manage two complete systems on the server
[06:37] <LaserJock> but I guess it could be fairly simple if we have an easy way of knowing which clients are local-apps enabled
[06:37] <LaserJock> in the login script we could check for some flag and send the user to a different config directory
[06:38] <highvoltage> yep, I was thinking along the same lines
[06:38] <highvoltage> a local app could be run that checks the system specs (or what was specified in lts.conf) and write a setting in the user's home directory
[06:39] <highvoltage> and if it's set, it adjust your menus so that certain apps run locally
[06:39] <LaserJock> I just don't know how all that works
[06:40] <LaserJock> but if there's something to check then it should be possible
[06:40] <highvoltage> running the local app to determine whether the machine is up to scratch and doing something in the home directory is quite easy though
[06:42] <LaserJock> how do you mean?
[06:44] <highvoltage> on a session startup, you can run a script in the local machine that will check the hardware of your thin client, and store something in the user's home directory, like ~/.ltsp/local-apps-capable
[06:45] <highvoltage> perhaps the menus could use a wrapper of something that checks whether that file exists and if it does, it then checks whether the program is available in the chroot, and then it launches it from there
[06:46] <highvoltage> otherwise it runs it from the server ('locally')
[06:46] <LaserJock> how are these apps run differently
[06:46] <LaserJock> ?
[06:46] <LaserJock> how are the executed?
[06:46] <highvoltage> the local apps?
[06:49] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:50] <highvoltage> they run on the thin client's cpu and ram, and they have direct access to the hardware, so you can run 3d apps on them like google earth
[06:51] <LaserJock> no, I know that
[06:51] <LaserJock> but how do you actually start them up
[06:51] <highvoltage> one big problem we've always had in ltsp labs is gcompris. it used to suck down the server and the whole lab gets slow. now we're running that locally and it's awesome. everyone gets decent performance, and the server is idling
[06:51] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ah, there's a script on the ltsp server with which you call it
[06:51] <highvoltage> ltsp-localapps oowriter
[06:52] <highvoltage> (I think it's called ltsp-localapps, it's something like that)
[06:52] <LaserJock> ah
[06:52] <LaserJock> so we need to replace oowriter with ltsp-localapps oowriter
[06:52] <highvoltage> yep
[06:53] <LaserJock> ok, so hmm, how do we decide what apps should be local?
[06:54] <LaserJock> I wonder if an admin can give a list
[06:54] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I guess you'd have a config file where you specify it, maybe in lts.conf
[06:54] <LaserJock> for given clients
[06:54] <LaserJock> then when we log in we check that list, if it's empty we have no local apps
[06:55] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I think if you want to specify it on a per-client basis, then lts.conf is certainly the way, because then you can do it by mac address
[06:55] <LaserJock> if it's not empty we create a new menu with menu items for the local apps
[06:56] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I have a client for who this would be very beneficial, so my plan is to come up with an implementation that works well, but might be a bit hacky
[06:56] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I thought it would be nice if we could get a more polished, proper implementation of this for edubuntu at some point as well
[06:57] <highvoltage> I think it's great how easy local apps are atm, but if it's just a little more easier than it is now, it could become a killer feature
[06:58] <LaserJock> well, that seems pretty doable
[06:59] <highvoltage> I think I'll just put together the hacky version as a proof of concept, and then I can show it to you and the ltsp people to smack down
[06:59] <LaserJock> somehow I think I need to turn into a menu guru ;-)
[06:59] <highvoltage> I thought you were!
[07:01] <LaserJock> not really
[07:01] <LaserJock> I did some stuff
[07:01] <LaserJock> but I've got a long ways to go before I'll be really good at hacking around with it
[07:01] <LaserJock> like being able to write menu editors
[07:50] <LaserJock> wahoo, I just made a CLI apps that shows my Remember the Milk tasks
[07:51] <LaserJock> s/apps/app/


[06:39] <magespawn> Good morning.
[06:44] <roryy> ello
[06:52] <magespawn> Howdy, a new face, when did you start coming here?
[06:52] <roryy> ag, i pop onto irc one every 6 months for a few days
[06:53] <magespawn> Cool
[06:55] <magespawn> This channel is normally pretty quite, now there lots of peeps
[12:11] <magespawn> afternoon all
[12:33] <superfly> hi magespawn
[12:33] <magespawn> hey superfly
[12:35] <magespawn> busy watching this in youtube quite interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UghlW1TsMA&feature=youtube_gdata
[12:53] <magespawn> hacking in the 80's and 90's
[12:54] <superfly> magespawn: looks interesting... will have to watch it when junior isn't watching a movie next to me
[12:55] <magespawn> ahh the kids. fish one use to fall asleep in my lap while I was playing starcraft
[12:55] <magespawn> 300 baud modems
[12:56] <magespawn> 5 1/2 inch floppies
[13:05] <magespawn> superfly what would you use to encrypt email
[13:05] <magespawn> or files
[13:06] <superfly> IIRC you can use PGP or GnuPG
[13:13] <magespawn> when I found out what that means I thought it was quite funny
[13:33] <zeref> o00o, interesting watch: http://www.thefilterbubble.com/ted-talk
[13:58] <magespawn> this sort of thing has been going on since we started looking for information
[13:59] <magespawn> you must learn to get rid of your own patterns
[14:00] <magespawn> now it happens automatically bit like the the tv remote control
[14:01] <magespawn> not really a bit fan of the facebook timelinehave missed things from friends who are not that active
[14:01] <magespawn> big
[14:16] <charlvn> magespawn: i also use gpg or sometimes bcrypt (blowfish)
[14:16] <magespawn> cool why change from one to the other?
[14:17] <charlvn> they both support symmetric passphrase-based encryption for files but i'm quite interested to know which one is more secure
[14:17] <magespawn> a video on how to use vim for those who do not know http://www.everymanit.com/2010/09/15/vim-for-file-editing/
[14:18] <charlvn> gpg also supports ppk (asymmetric) encryption
[14:18] <tumbleweed> gpg supports a lot more encryption options than bcrypt
[14:18] <magespawn> be interesting to find out, i need one that will run on different platforms
[14:18] <charlvn> yeah it's much more advanced, you can have a keyring etc
[14:18] <tumbleweed> there in gpg / pgp pretty much everywhere
[14:19] <charlvn> bcrypt is simple and afaik quite secure but limited in terms of functionality
[14:19] <charlvn> magespawn: gpg is cross-platform, not sure of bcrypt
[14:19] <charlvn> but blowfish is pretty popular so i assume it would be too
[14:19] <tumbleweed> blowfish isn't that popular these days, but it isn't signidficantly broken
[14:20] <charlvn> blowfish usually gets used for backend purposes, very rarely by normal users
[14:20] <magespawn> no support for windows but will run in cygwin
[14:20] <charlvn> only reason i use and know about it is because it is my job (software development)
[14:20] <magespawn> tumbleweed do you use one?
[14:21] <charlvn> http://codahale.com/how-to-safely-store-a-password/
[14:21] <tumbleweed> these days, you'd usually use AES
[14:21] <magespawn> sorry i lie there is a windows binary for blowfish
[14:21] <tumbleweed> magespawn: gpg, we use gpg signatures to authenticate debian & ubuntu uploads
[14:21] <charlvn> depends on the purpose, bcrypt is super efficient for symmetric key encryption
[14:22] <tumbleweed> magespawn: blowfish is just a cipher, you'll find implementations for it everywhere
[14:22] <charlvn> but... if you need PPK you need to go AES
[14:22] <tumbleweed> e.g. it's one of the many supported by gpg
[14:22] <tumbleweed> charlvn: AES is a symmetric cipher
[14:22] <tumbleweed> just like blowfish
[14:23] <charlvn> just checked on the wikipedia, that's indeed correct, not sure why i thought otherwise
[14:23] <magespawn> is it possible to break the encryption? practically speaking?
[14:24] <charlvn> everything is possible, depends on the computing resources you have at your disposal
[14:24] <tumbleweed> no known way. Usually any attacks go through side channels or implementation mistakes
[14:25] <magespawn> right thanks a lot guys, i have to take kids home now, will see you all a bit later
[14:26] <charlvn> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/
[14:27] <charlvn> lol while searching for that link i found this: http://en.shiapost.com/?p=2260
[14:36] <Kilos> afternoon superfly and others
[14:36] <charlvn> hi Kilos
[14:36] <Kilos> just popped in for coffee
[14:36] <Kilos> hi there charlvn
[14:36] <superfly> afternoon Kilos
[14:36] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[14:36]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[14:38] <Kilos> wiped xubuntu off 6g drive and installed natty and without updating have been installing everything from saved natty archives with gdebi
[14:38] <Kilos> what a job
[14:39] <charlvn> superfly: here's the problem i'm having with VB http://i.imgur.com/doZOK.png
[14:40] <superfly> charlvn: it gave me that message, and then I went and switched on 3D acceleration, and I have full Gnome 3
[14:40] <superfly> s/3/Shell/
[14:40] <charlvn> ok lemme try that.. hold on
[14:40] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[14:41] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[14:41] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[14:41] <superfly> but, I'm not a Gnomer, so I don't know anything more than what I did
[14:41] <Kilos> lol
[14:41] <superfly> charlvn: also, my Gnome 3 was in Debian, so it may differ from Ubuntu
[14:42] <charlvn> this is on fedora core
[14:42] <superfly> and Fedora :-)
[14:42] <charlvn> in principle it shouldn't matter unless there is some strange driver problem
[14:42] <superfly> yeah
[14:43] <charlvn> weird, enabled 3d acceleration in the virtual machine settings
[14:44] <charlvn> but it still doesn't work
[14:44] <superfly> charlvn: did you shut the machine down and restart it?
[14:44] <charlvn> yeah of course
[14:44] <charlvn> very strange
[14:44] <superfly> charlvn: I presume you also have the guest utils installed?
[14:45] <charlvn> no this is booting from the live cd, so i think that must be the problem
[14:46] <charlvn> ok lemme do an install and get the drivers in there
[14:50] <Kilos> bbl
[14:50] <charlvn> i never understand why they hide the install option under system tools
[14:50] <Kilos> lol
[14:50] <charlvn> you would think they would make it simpler
[14:50] <charlvn> yeah weird
[14:55] <charlvn> fedora, wtf srsly
[14:55] <charlvn> hold on
[14:56] <charlvn> installer started complaining that the installation media is corrupt - then did a md5sum and the .iso is perfect
[14:56] <charlvn> hit retry, continued working
[14:59] <Kilos> superfly, i did apt-get update without internet connection. and saw it said failed to get to a whole lotta sites. can i give those links to ian and will he be able to get the security updates etc. here is a sample link
[14:59] <Kilos> whew
[14:59] <Kilos> http://security.ubuntu.com natty-security InRelease
[14:59] <superfly> Kilos: no, those won't work
[14:59] <Kilos> or wont a browser go there
[14:59] <Kilos> aw
[15:00] <superfly> Kilos: they aren't links
[15:00] <Kilos> so its gotta be done throught apt-get then ?
[15:00] <Kilos> sigh
[15:01] <charlvn> lol http://i.imgur.com/meI3K.png
[15:01] <superfly> yes
[15:01] <charlvn> ok serves me right for using fedora :P
[15:01] <charlvn> (and complaining about it on an ubuntu channel of all things)
[15:01] <Kilos> lol
[15:02] <Kilos> ty superfly
[15:02] <Kilos> charlvn, you also chasing gnome?
[15:03] <charlvn> Kilos: yes and not catching up to it apparently ;)
[15:03] <Kilos> ha ha ha
[15:03] <Kilos> at least im not alone
[15:04] <Kilos> maybe ill go kubuntu
[15:04] <superfly> charlvn: from what I've heard, Gnome Shell is in 12.04, it's just not installed by default
[15:04] <charlvn> +1
[15:04] <charlvn> yes it's the gnome-shell package
[15:04] <Kilos> then the fly will go gray quick
[15:04] <charlvn> i installed that yesterday inside vmware and it worked perfectly
[15:04] <superfly> Kilos: no more than I already am :-P
[15:04] <Kilos> lol
[15:04] <charlvn> i should try inside ubuntu now
[15:05] <charlvn> s/ubuntu/virtualbox/
[15:05] <Kilos> superfly, you gray already?
[15:05] <superfly> Kilos: no, and I won't before a long time
[15:05] <Kilos> ah
[15:06] <Kilos> charlvn, http://www.filiwiese.com/installing-gnome-on-ubuntu-12-04-precise-pangolin/
[15:07] <charlvn> Kilos: ah interesting, very interesting
[15:07] <charlvn> i think i did it wrong then
[15:07] <charlvn> because i never sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gnome3-team/gnome3
[15:07] <Kilos> ah
[15:07] <charlvn> ok gonna try it a bit later, thanks
[15:07] <Kilos> good luck
[15:07] <superfly> and you shouldn't... one should steer clear of unofficial repositories
[15:08] <Kilos> charlvn, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/gnome-classic-in-ubuntu-12-04-its-like-nothing-ever-changed/
[15:09] <Kilos> if that works i will go 12.04 when i get a cd
[15:09] <charlvn> superfly: i think there is room for unofficial repos, but as always, caution should be applied
[15:09] <charlvn> superfly: the only ppa i'm using at the moment is for exfat http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6537878/how-to-mount-a-exfat-partition-in-ubuntu-11-04
[15:10] <superfly> charlvn: yeah, the problem is that PPA's are becoming so "mainstream" that people are throwing caution to the wind
[15:10] <superfly> charlvn: I maintain a PPA ;-)
[15:10] <superfly> (two, technically)
[15:10] <charlvn> yeah that's probably true
[15:10] <charlvn> but most people are pushing for features, not for stability
[15:10] <superfly> ya
[15:11] <charlvn> that's why lots of people moved away from debian and centos
[15:11]  * superfly is sorta in the process of getting his software into Debian, and thus Ubuntu, so that there will be no need for PPAs
[15:11] <charlvn> when i first saw people running fedora on a server i freaked (this was many years ago)
[15:12] <superfly> charlvn: I'd still freak if I saw anyone running fedora on a server
[15:12] <superfly> it's not meant for servers
[15:12] <charlvn> Kilos: i think when i installed the gnome-shell yesterday without the ppa i got "gnome classic" or whatever people want to call it
[15:12] <charlvn> it looked exactly the same as i'm used to from the old gnome
[15:13] <charlvn> superfly: amazon ec2 offers fedora only, no centos
[15:13] <superfly> charlvn: they offer Ubuntu though, and I'd far rather run Ubuntu than Fedora
[15:13] <Kilos> ah as in classic on 11.04 but if you look at freecell in games the colours are shocking
[15:14] <charlvn> superfly: yeah same here
[15:14] <Kilos> this switch to ubity has rattled many feathers
[15:14] <charlvn> Kilos: ah yeah haven't spent too much time with that
[15:14] <charlvn> yeah indeed
[15:14] <Kilos> *unity
[15:15] <superfly> I think it's ruffled far fewer feathers than the media tries to tell us
[15:15] <superfly> Empty vessels make the most noise, as do ruffled feathers.
[15:15] <Kilos> im just going by the mails on our lists
[15:16] <Kilos> peeps like lee sharp
[15:17] <superfly> Kilos: like I said, empty vessels make the most noise
[15:17] <superfly> ;-)
[15:17] <Kilos> lol
[15:17] <Kilos> i better not say another word
[15:17] <charlvn> ah no sorry, i was wrong, apparently they do support centos https://aws.amazon.com/amis/rightimage-centos-5-2-base-image-beta-version-4-0-2-32-bit
[15:17] <charlvn> but it's community contributed
[15:17] <Kilos> when i get another graphics card i will try ubity
[15:18] <Kilos> unity
[15:18] <charlvn> in the short list back when i used it (2009/2010) i didn't see that option in my panel though
[15:18] <charlvn> probably only officially supported distros, tried to get a list of them now but can't find it
[15:19] <Kilos> charlvn, http://www.techlw.com/2012/02/install-gnome-shell-on-ubuntu-1204.html
[15:19] <Kilos> do they also say PPA
[15:20] <charlvn> rackspace does support centos fedora ubuntu and debian officially
[15:20] <charlvn> "Choose from a variety of popular 64-bit Linux® Distributions—Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, CentOS, Fedora, Arch and Red Hat Enterprise Linux"
[15:20] <charlvn> http://www.rackspace.com/cloud/cloud_hosting_products/servers/
[15:21] <charlvn> Kilos: ah yeah that's exactly what i did yesterday
[15:21] <charlvn> but my desktop did not look like the second screenshot
[15:21] <charlvn> weird
[15:21] <Kilos> you musta missed something
[15:22] <charlvn> yeah
[15:22] <charlvn> ok i'll install it under virtualbox in any case and then try to see if i can get it to work
[15:22] <Kilos> lol
[15:22] <Kilos> have you tried unity ChanServ
[15:22] <Kilos> ?
[15:23] <Kilos> eish
[15:23] <charlvn> lol
[15:23] <Kilos> that was for you charlvn
[15:23] <Kilos> lol
[15:23] <charlvn> yeah i'm actually using it right now on my macbook pro
[15:23] <charlvn> but i'm not a big fan
[15:23] <Kilos> i am so used to typing three characters and then tab
[15:24] <Kilos> ah
[15:25] <charlvn> yeah same here
[15:25] <Kilos> were all creatures of habid
[15:25] <Kilos> habit
[15:36] <Kilos> bbl
[15:43] <charlvn> just ate pancake with rhubarb - it's better than it sounds
[16:00] <charlvn> ok results are in
[16:00] <charlvn> no need for the ppa just install gnome-shell
[16:00] <charlvn> enable 3d acceleration in virtualbox and it works perfectly
[16:00] <charlvn> http://i.imgur.com/VDDal.png
[16:00] <charlvn> the mandatory screenshot
[16:00] <charlvn> according to the folks on #ubuntu-nl, the ppa is unnecessary
[16:01] <tumbleweed> it shouldn't have been necessary in oneiric either
[16:02] <charlvn> i can try it, since i'm still running it here on my host os
[16:03] <charlvn> oneiric = 11.10 right? the names keep confusing me
[16:03] <tumbleweed> yes
[16:03] <charlvn> ok busy installing now
[16:06] <charlvn> need to close xchat to log out and test it, brb
[16:10] <charlvn> ok in gnome3 now - it's slow even on my mbp8.1 which is only a year old (with an intel core i5)
[16:10] <charlvn> not too impressed so far
[16:10] <charlvn> running natively i mean, on ubuntu 11.10
[17:21] <magespawn> Evening all
[17:22] <superfly> hi magespawn
[17:27] <charlvn> superfly: thanks for the tip regarding enabling 3d acceleration
[17:27] <charlvn> works really nicely
[17:27] <superfly> charlvn: np... been using it for ages, actually
[17:28] <charlvn> strange that it isn't enabled by default but i'm sure there is a good reason for that
[17:28] <charlvn> for most virtual machines i'm sure you won't need it in any case
[17:28] <charlvn> ok i'm going to take a shower bbl
[17:28] <superfly> yeah, I think it's to make sure it works out of the box on most setups
[17:50] <magespawn> Right lets see if I can stay here this time
[17:54] <charlvn> ok back
[17:54] <charlvn> lol magespawn both you and psydroid quit and entered right after each other
[17:55] <magespawn> Maybe it is an alergic reaction
[17:58] <charlvn> there is a certain type of sauce that can create that reaction in some... http://i.imgur.com/dSgkr.png
[17:58] <charlvn> with added vitamin cool
[18:09] <psydroid> oh, hi charlvn
[18:10] <psydroid> hi magespawn
[18:10] <magespawn> Hi psydroid
[18:10] <psydroid> my battery ran out
[18:11] <charlvn> lol
[18:11] <charlvn> ok then it was completely unrelated :P
[18:12] <psydroid> :)
[18:12] <psydroid> we're on different continents too
[18:12] <magespawn> 4chan is now html5 https://boards.4chan.org/g/res/24506058
[18:13] <magespawn> Well thats a relief
[18:17] <charlvn> http://validator.w3.org/unicorn/check?ucn_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fboards.4chan.org%2Fhtmlnew%2F
[18:17] <charlvn> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=https%3A%2F%2Fboards.4chan.org%2Fhtmlnew%2F
[18:18] <charlvn> still needs a bit of work apparently but it's already a huge improvement
[18:18] <charlvn> http://validator.nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fboards.4chan.org%2Fhtmlnew%2F
[18:20] <charlvn> psydroid: you could both be using the same irc server though
[18:20] <charlvn> the trouble could be on the server's end
[18:21] <psydroid> charvn, that would certainly be possible
[18:27] <kbmonkey> hello
[18:28] <psydroid> hello kbmonkey
[18:28] <kbmonkey> nice long weekend, hey?
[18:30] <psydroid> yeah
[18:30] <magespawn> Hey kbmonkey, do not really know what a long weekend is, but the days off are nice
[18:30] <charlvn> it's a nice break
[18:30] <charlvn> s/break/extra long break/
[18:32] <kbmonkey> the main difference magespawn, is instead of doing work you have to do, and doing work you want to do ;)
[18:34] <charlvn> lol +1
[18:34] <magespawn> Mm, I live in a very nice place, I never have to do work I do not want to do.
[18:36] <charlvn> magespawn: ever had to do the dishes
[18:36] <charlvn> ?
[18:37] <magespawn> All the time
[18:38] <charlvn> well if you enjoy doing the dishes, good for you :P
[18:38] <magespawn> But I still choose to
[18:38] <charlvn> well if you don't do the dishes... they heap up :(
[18:38] <superfly> kbmonkey: I dunno, I want to work when I go to work.
[18:38] <superfly> or rather, I'm doing what I enjoy when I go to work
[18:39] <magespawn> No not really but I dislike having no clean plates more
[18:39] <charlvn> lol
[18:39] <charlvn> well said
[18:39] <charlvn> otherwise, you could just throw all the dirty dishes away right?
[18:39] <charlvn> but then there are no clean ones
[18:41] <magespawn> If i had that much money it might be an option but I really have a problem with wastage
[18:41] <roryy> cut out the middleman.  eat out of the pot.
[18:42] <magespawn> So maybe I could donate them to charity or something, along with the left over food.
[18:43] <charlvn> talking about luxury problems... :P
[18:45] <magespawn> Still would not, waste of time and effort, do not think I am that eccentric. ;)
[18:47] <charlvn> watching the latest episode of ancient aliens now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8KE7nPzme0
[18:48] <magespawn> I heard this somewhere: Rich people are eccentric, poor people are crazy.
[18:48] <charlvn> here is the pattern of thought: assumption, assumption, fact, assumption assumption assumption, fact, assumption assumption
[18:48] <charlvn> lol
[18:51] <kbmonkey> ha ha, good solution roryy ;D
[18:51] <kbmonkey> 1st world problems (TM)
[18:52] <magespawn> Yup indeed.
[18:54] <charlvn> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/first-world-problems vs http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/third-world-success
[18:57] <charlvn> i think measuring fact-to-assumption ratio in documentaries would produce very interesting results
[18:58] <charlvn> especially on the history channel
[18:59] <magespawn> Some of those show do construct the trex from a toe bone.
[19:00] <charlvn> :D
[19:00] <magespawn> Brb battery is dying.
[19:01] <charlvn> this is more or less how it goes: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ancient-aliens
[19:01] <charlvn> what happened? it must have been the aliens!
[19:01] <charlvn> if our current civilisation goes under, people from thousands of years from now will dig up our "advanced" technology and will claim alien intervention
[19:02] <charlvn> ubuntu? the only way to explain the existence of such advanced technology must have been the aliens
[19:03] <magespawn> like a boomarang
[19:04] <charlvn> what is it with you and psydroid and your batters ffs
[19:04] <charlvn> *batteries
[19:04] <magespawn> tablet has been working all day, now on my phone.
[19:04] <charlvn> are you sure you don't know each other lol
[19:11] <psydroid> charlvn, I am on wifi all the time, the battery gets drained after a few hours
[19:11] <magespawn> ping
[19:11] <magespawn> Maaz coffee on
[19:11]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[19:11] <psydroid> when I have a tablet, it will hopefully improvw as magespawn says
[19:12] <kbmonkey> Maaz, coffee please
[19:12] <Maaz> kbmonkey: Yessir
[19:12] <kbmonkey> that shold help. mmm fresh brew
[19:15] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for magespawn and kbmonkey!
[19:25] <charlvn> psydroid: yeah wifi kills a wireless device
[19:25] <charlvn> especially when you tether to a phone via wifi and then let the phone connect out via hsdpa
[19:25] <charlvn> you better have that phone connected to a charger...
[19:25] <charlvn> otherwise that phone gets pwned within a couple of mins, hour tops
[19:27] <kbmonkey> nothing beats sitting at the console ;)
[19:27] <psydroid> yes, I have it connected to one now
[19:28] <psydroid> ok, a regular keyboard allows you to type faster, but a touch-based device is more convenient
[19:29] <psydroid> even a netbook isn't as convenient as a phone or a tablet for light uses
[19:29] <kbmonkey> nah, no need to multitask IRL and the metaverse.
[19:29] <charlvn> netbook is old school... ultrabooks people
[19:29] <kbmonkey> I mean, when I do something on the PC, why would I want to do anything else at the same time ;)
[19:30] <charlvn> i actually had an acer ultrabook in for testing and it worked very nicely, was super light in comparison to this mbp i have on my lap right now
[19:30] <charlvn> through my contacts i could get it at cost price but i ended up not buying one because the memory is all onboard with no extension capabilities
[19:30] <kbmonkey> hot damn, boss got a new dell xps, one of those smanchy ssd's. battery life about 8 hours
[19:30] <charlvn> so i was limited to 4GB
[19:31] <charlvn> kbmonkey: sounds typical for ultrabooks, the battery life is amazing
[19:41] <magespawn> howdy AGAIN.
[19:44] <superfly> magespawn: I have two words for you: IRC bouncer
[19:45] <magespawn> okay whats that? like quassel core?
[19:46] <kbmonkey> two words: remote shell XD
[19:46] <magespawn> okay guys one at a time
[19:47] <magespawn> will google once i am back on adsl
[20:03] <charlvn> vps+screen+irssi
[20:03] <superfly> magespawn: either a remote shell, or quassel core
[20:03] <psydroid> I have that too now
[20:04] <psydroid> but I must go to sleep, good night guys
[20:04] <magespawn> night psydroid
[20:05] <kbmonkey> nite psydroid
[20:08] <magespawn> might hold off on this until i get the wifi/wug setup.
[20:08] <charlvn> http://wiki.znc.in/ZNC
[20:10] <charlvn> that's the most popular bnc atm afaik
[20:12] <charlvn> quassel is a normal irc client (for kde) no?
[20:12] <magespawn> yes also has android client
[20:12] <superfly> charlvn: well, it's written in Qt, but there is a KDE-specific version too
[20:13] <superfly> and it has both a "normal" and a bouncer setup
[20:13] <superfly> (well, they're different binaries, but the "normal" is a conglomeration of the client and core binaries)
[20:13] <charlvn> superfly: ah i see, didn't know that, interesting
[20:13] <superfly> charlvn: it works very well on OS X and on Windows too
[20:14] <superfly> and my Gnomified friends tell me it looks just like a GTK app in Gnome
[20:14] <magespawn> thats good to know.
[20:14] <magespawn> could you run irc on a wug?
[20:14] <superfly> magespawn: as far as I know, the big WUGs all have their own internal IRC networks
[20:15] <magespawn> irc software FOSS?
[20:16] <roryy> the must be
[20:16] <roryy> there, even
[20:16] <superfly> magespawn: most IRC networks are running FOSS servers
[20:16] <roryy> aptitude search ircd gives at least four options
[20:17] <kbmonkey> ircd is widely used
[20:17] <kbmonkey> ircd-irc2 for ex
[20:17] <charlvn> i used to run some servers on bahamut
[20:17] <magespawn> will be very useful
[20:17] <charlvn> a small irc network a number of years ago
[20:19] <magespawn> do not why I asked that should have been obvious
[20:20] <charlvn> http://achurch.org/services/
[20:31] <charlvn> magespawn: http://hak5.org/episodes/hak5-1104
[20:33] <charlvn> magespawn: http://www.wug.za.net/chat.php
[20:36] <magespawn> ty
[20:38] <magespawn> ty
[20:39] <magespawn> i am off, early start tomrrow, night all.
[20:40] <superfly> night magespawn
[20:40] <charlvn> night magespawn
[21:07] <charlvn> g'night all


[01:18] <histo> Are we going to be able to install ubuntu on our current devices like a Galaxy S3?
[01:19] <xsacha_> on that question, would i be able to install it on a nokia n9?
[01:21] <histo> xsacha_: http://askubuntu.com/questions/243203/ubuntu-phone-for-nokia-n9
[01:23] <sebsebseb> hi
[01:39] <xsacha_> histo: hmm didn't really answer my question. is it the last comment that it is more targeted towards high-end phones?
[03:46] <surgemcgee> Shot in the dark here, do I have to declare namespaces for xml files which do not have them?
[03:59] <freethinker> how does one go about install the ubuntu phone sdk on archlinux?
[03:59] <freethinker> installing*
[04:03] <mhall119> freethinker: um, I suppose you can download and extract all the .debs
[04:05] <freethinker> mhall119, compilation from source would be more elegant,  trying to figure out how to add it to AUR
[04:09] <mhall119> freethinker: grab the source debs then
[04:54] <histo> freethinker: you can extract from debs
[11:57] <raven_> hi
[11:58] <raven_> will ubuntu phone be developed for asus padphone 2?
[11:58] <raven_> if not - any way to make a request for it?
[12:13] <doomlord> i'm very pleased it just happens to be on the phone I have
[12:13] <doomlord> my next phone purchase decision will be driven by ubuntu-phone support
[12:23] <xsacha> doomlord: my next purchase will be driven by whether the bootloader is unlocked. sort of the same thing
[12:40] <raven_> any way to make a request for ubuntu on asus padphone 2?
[12:41] <hourd> i think the idea is that it will eventually work on any phone that conforms to the android specification
[12:41] <hourd> s/phone/device/
[12:43] <raven_> hourd, would be nice but a device that not at least supports mass storage access seems to be very closed......
[12:48] <hourd> ? like usb storage?
[12:49] <raven_> yes
[12:49] <raven_> it supports only mtp and ptp
[12:49] <hourd> you can with the otg adapters no?
[12:50] <raven_> whats this?
[12:50] <hourd> microusb -> usb female
[12:51] <hourd> i use it to plug a hdd into my nexus7
[12:51] <hourd> or a keyboard/mouse
[12:51] <raven_> i need mass storage access from my ubuntu notebook
[12:51] <hourd> notebook? then surely it has it?
[12:51] <raven_> ???
[12:51] <raven_> the padphone does not support simply mass storage
[12:51] <hourd> oh....
[12:51] <raven_> only mtp and ptp
[12:52] <hourd> right use the phone as mass storage
[12:52] <hourd> i misundestood
[12:52] <raven_> hourd, it has NO OPTION to provide it as mass storage
[12:53] <hourd> is this ubuntu phone in general or a phone you currently own?
[12:54] <raven_> i want my padphone 2 running android 4.1 be available as mass storage device via my ubuntu notebook
[12:54] <hourd> oh ok. I dont see how that relates to ubuntu phone
[12:54] <raven_> i only wanted to say, because it does not support mass storage access by default it obviously is not wanted to be open by asus
[12:55] <cooperyuan> is ubuntu-phone available for download
[12:55] <hourd> maybe but seems odd as the nexus7 is asus and thats pretty damn open
[12:55] <cooperyuan> I mean source code
[12:55] <hourd> cooperyuan: not yet. check topic
[12:55] <raven_> how to make a ubuntu request for padphone?
[12:56] <cooperyuan> cool, Feb'13
[12:56] <cooperyuan> thanks
[12:56] <hourd> raven_: i don't think you can
[12:56] <raven_> why?
[12:56] <hourd> raven_: and why would it be an ubuntu request?
[12:56] <hourd> to do what?
[12:56] <popey> raven_: we're not taking requests at the moment
[12:56] <doomlord> he want ubuntu ported to padphone
[12:57] <doomlord> offer bounty
[12:57] <doomlord> thats one of the compromises with FOSS..  so much hardware variety, you can't expect it will all be supported
[12:58] <popey> well, we're expecting the community to help in that regard
[12:59] <hourd> isn't that why its conforming the the android hardware spec so that its easier to support the individual devices
[13:00] <doomlord> i gaather android is very fragmented though .. its like PC's all over again, many permutations
[13:00] <doomlord> difficult to test :)
[13:04] <doomlord> i'd be curious to know if ubuntu (phone/android) can acess the pressure sensitive pen on the Galaxy Note devices
[13:04] <doomlord> i'd like to get one of those.. but would hesitate if ubuntu can't exploit it
[13:05] <doomlord> it would make a lot more sense of the ability to run a desktop on it i think (more so the 10' tablet)
[13:59] <elpapo> Hi, Do you think the SAR (radiation Value) will be changed if installing Ubuntu on Samsung Galaxy Nexus? (http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone)
[13:59] <elpapo> Just a thought...
[14:17] <krovatti> elpapo: independently i think
[14:38] <elpapo> krovatti, Ok, thx for answer.
[15:20] <Jester86> Hey all, I have an old smart phone.. original droid.
[15:21] <Jester86> I've been considering upgrading but will lose my unlimited data and what not.
[15:21] <smartboyhw> Jester86, wow
[15:22] <Jester86> That in mind, I'd be willing to consider leaving verizon for a cheaper plan if possible.  Do any of you think any vendor will be more likely to adopt Ubuntu Phone.
[15:22] <hourd> Jester86: just buy one outright and keep your dataplan
[15:22] <hourd> thats what i did
[15:22] <Jester86> yes.. smartboyhw.. i've been running aftermarket roms on it for a while so it hasn't been bad but with the more recent CG milestone rom its just been dog slow.
[15:23] <Jester86> hourd.. I would be the issue is that I'm still on the family plan from when i was in college/high school.  I'm afraid eventually one of my family members will do an upgrade and screw the pooch.
[15:24] <Jester86> we all pitch in on the bill but I'm sure its only a matter of time until one of them jacks it up.
[15:25] <Jester86> I use my phone to stream music all day ever day.. and use it for navigation for 30+ minutes at least once a week on average.
[15:25] <Jester86> I'm not sure what sort of data that comes out to per month but I'm sure I'm over 2 gigs
[15:25] <Jester86> probably over 4
[15:26] <Jester86> with verizon's new plans there is a $60 fee just for having the basic service in addition to your data plan.. my bill would easily go up quite a bit from where I am today.
[15:54] <krovatti> popey, so what's about my question about integrating brand new apps or games into Ubuntu Phone. can everyone offer it and will it be available "out of the box". I know there's no official answer this time.  just your thoughts as a developer at Canonical
[15:54] <krovatti> Loofy, hi ) what's up?
[15:57] <popey> hello krovatti
[15:57] <popey> krovatti: not sure I understand your question
[15:58] <krovatti> popey: ok, i'll rewrite it
[15:59] <krovatti> popey: i mean next situation. imagine. i'm a developer and i wrote a cool app (or game). can i offer it to the community and then will this app (or game) distribute with Ubuntu Phone?
[16:00] <krovatti> popey: is this clear?
[16:01] <popey> you mean, shipping out of the box?
[16:02] <krovatti> popey: yes
[16:02] <popey> krovatti: we're already looking at a set of core apps. maybe you saw jono's blog post about it?
[16:02] <popey> http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/01/23/community-driven-ubuntu-phone-core-apps/
[16:04] <krovatti> popey: i know about searching for a CORE APPS (such as timer, alarm clock). i mean non core apps (such as translator for e.g. or brick breaker game). and yes, i'll contribute some code and ideas to core apps
[16:04] <blackout23> I'd belive that any 3rd party app will simply be available for download through the ported Software Center on the phone
[16:05] <blackout23> imagine there are 5000 apps at some point they won't come preinstalled when they leave the factory of course
[16:06] <blackout23> Every smartphone only ships with the core applications.
[16:06] <krovatti> blackout23: yes, they will be. but i told about apps distributing in system by default ("out of the box", but not core apps) :)
[16:07] <krovatti> blackout23: let me don't agree with you. in some regions, some oem's distribute own apps or games with core apps
[16:07] <blackout23> I don't understand what you mean to be honest
[16:08] <blackout23> yes that's up the the oem
[16:08] <blackout23> Canonical has its core apps. OEM adds maybe 4 of their own that's it.
[16:08] <blackout23> Some might ship vanila Ubuntu Phone kind of like the Nexus with vanilla Android
[16:09] <blackout23> anything else is just a community contribution and will not be preinstalled
[16:09] <krovatti> blackout23: f***. go back to the previous messages and try to figure out :)
[16:09] <krovatti> blackout23: oh, thanks
[16:10] <krovatti> blackout23: are you a dev at Canonical?
[16:10] <blackout23> nope but I'd be very surprised if it won't be like I just explained. Anything else just doesn't make any sense.
[16:12] <krovatti> blackout23: maybe you're right
[16:14] <blackout23> This how everyone in the industry handles it. Some carriers in the US deliver customized phones to their customers to include their own set of Apps. Some OEM like HTC and Samsung have their own Android spinoff. If you want Android without anything you need to buy a Nexus device.
[16:16] <blackout23> In Europe network carrier apps are not that common. Phone are generaly unlocked and unbranded. Only if you let's say a Galaxy S3 you'll find some Samsung Apps that are not part of the original Android that comes from Google.
[16:17] <blackout23> + buy
[16:25] <doomlord> is it likely aanyone will SHIP ubuntu phones?
[16:26] <blackout23> That's canonicals goal to have handset manufacturs making Ubuntu Phones that you can buy in stores or with your new phone contract.
[16:27] <popey> doomlord: yes
[16:28] <blackout23> popey: but there is no offical OEM that will make Ubuntu Phones I guess at this point?
[16:28] <doomlord> well i do home this crystalizes. it wouuld be awesome
[16:28] <xsacha> is dell interested?
[16:28] <popey> we have nothing to announce yet.
[16:30] <blackout23> I think it is intersting to see that even Samsung doesn't want to be married to Android even though their Galaxy Smartphones with Android are very successful
[16:31] <blackout23> otherwise they wouldn't be Tizen
[16:36] <doomlord> tizen=?
[16:37] <popey> A mobile phone OS ☺
[16:37] <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen
[17:43] <moocow1452> Knock knock?
[17:43] <blackout23> Who is there?
[17:43] <moocow1452> Me, Moocow, it says so on the left side of the screen, right?
[17:44] <blackout23> ;-)
[17:44] <blackout23> brb
[17:52] <moocow1452> Wondering the possiblity at this point of having something like Tasker available for Ubuntu Phone. Would a straight port be possible if the developer is willing to put in the time, and/or could a port be feasibly made?
[17:54] <moocow1452> blackout, you got my last message about the possiblity of something like Tasker or Tasker itself on the Ubuntu Phone?
[17:55] <moocow1452> Do we know anything about how apps would be run or ported at this point, or is it mostly guess work?
[18:02] <blackout23> I'm not familiar with the program called Tasker
[18:02] <Wiz007> can I install ubuntu in Xperia u?
[18:02] <blackout23> The developer would have to do a port with C/C++ and QML  as far as I know
[18:03] <blackout23> Wiz007 if someone builds an image for your phone than yes
[18:03] <blackout23> the first image that will be availabe will be for Samsung Galaxy Nexus
[18:04] <blackout23> The community would have to do a port for your phone just like there are ports of Android ROMs for different devices
[18:05] <Wiz007> I dont think ubuntu will work fine in xperia as it has only 512mb ram
[18:05] <Wiz007> even if the image is released
[18:07] <blackout23> 512 MB seems to be the minimum requirement for low end phones with Ubuntu OS.
[18:14] <surgemcgee> Is there a way to change the Button sizes in the Ubuntu components?
[18:22] <doomlord> can you display the regular desktop on ubuntu phone on the phone (however unusuable it might be)
[18:22] <doomlord> kind of like win8's "desktop-is-an-app" perhaps
[18:37] <blackout23> I don't think there is such a feature right now. And it would be rather hard. The 1280x720 resolution of the Galaxy Nexus might be comparable to a desktop resolution
[18:37] <blackout23> but on a 4.7 inch display window controls would be tiny
[18:38] <blackout23> I could only think of an option where you zoom and pan the Desktop like you do with a Website on a mobile browser
[18:39] <blackout23> But I'm rather sure that this isn't a top priority of canonical at this time to include such a feature
[18:41] <blackout23> It would be kind of cool I have to agree but more from a geeky point of view
[18:41] <doomlord> i presume the phone will get a terminal app :)
[18:42] <Joe_B> Terminal is one of the core apps, see here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/Design
[18:43] <xsacha> i sure hope it is as good as the nokia n9 terminal :D
[18:44] <blackout23> I did some of the mockup work you can see on the balsamiq site
[18:44] <blackout23> I don't know about the n9 terminal but I think my idea might be the best possible touch terminal
[18:45] <blackout23> You don't need extra keys. You hardly have to type anything, because the way autocompletion is done.  etc.
[18:47] <xsacha> yeah the n9 one is seriously the best one i've ever used. it felt really nice
[18:47] <xsacha> and n9 has no buttons
[18:47] <xsacha> irssi was really nice in it
[18:49] <blackout23> I'll see if I can find a video.
[18:49] <blackout23> but n9 has a slide out physical keyboard if i remember correct?
[18:50] <popey> no
[18:50] <popey> n950 does
[18:52] <Joe_B> blackout23, I just left a comment there actually.
[18:52] <Joe_B> I was wondering how you would scroll up if scroll was dedicated to cycling through previous commands.
[18:53] <Joe_B> I thought maybe use the volume rocker to scroll through commands and swipe up/down to scroll through previous output?
[18:53] <xsacha> http://vesuri.jormas.com/n9apps/n9-irssi.png
[18:57] <blackout23> Joe_B I replied
[18:59] <blackout23> xsacha so for ctrl + shift + v for pasting text from clipboard into terminal you have to get 3 fingers on the touchkeyboard?
[19:07] <Joe_B> Ideally we can cover completion, cycling through previous commands, jump to end of line & beginning of line and scrolling.  I'd also add jump by word (though tapping on the location you want the cursor seems ok).  Anything else?
[20:24] <ninjaaron> Are the default coreutils on the phone going to be GNU, busybox, or something else?
[20:28] <mhall119> ninjaaron: unknown at this point
[20:29] <dmj_nova> I would hope they're identical to the desktop ones
[20:31] <ninjaaron> dmj_nova: That would be ideal, but something like busybox might provide better performance, being designed for embedded devices.
[20:32] <ninjaaron> The wiki page about the terminal app says something about 'integration with busybox commands,' which lead me to believe that busybox might be used on the phone instead of GNU.
[20:46] <ninjaaron> Interesting. sh on ubuntu is dash (I would have expected bash), so I guess the busybox shell (ash) should already run... though looking now, some of them have bash in the shebang, but the syntax is POSIX, as far as I can tell. Eh... whatever. I'm sure someone has already thought of all this.
[20:48] <ninjaaron> "some of them" = "some of the init scripts"
[22:20] <Hashcode> Anyone know what kernel they've been using for the GNex running UbuntuPhone?
[22:25] <gdane> Hello
[22:26] <gdane> i have a comunicator based on intel xscale pxa270, does Canonical have some ubuntu phone project for such processor?
[22:28] <gdane> what faqs or info i have to read first to make ubuntu for such comunicator?
[22:28] <gdane> may be some manualk or something
[22:28] <gdane> manual
[22:28] <MrMorf> hi 2 all
[22:28] <MrMorf>  people i have a one question about ubuntu phone.
[22:28] <MrMorf>  Can i buy phone on android, and in the future change andriod os for ubuntu?
[22:29] <oh7fdn> yep
[22:30] <k1l> gdane: you saw the hardware specs mentioned on the http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone/operators-and-oems site ?
[22:30] <MrMorf> oh7fdn, thx
[22:30] <k1l> MrMorf: see the hardware recommendations and make sure  your device got a open bootloader
[22:30] <gdane> k1l, thx, i didnt see this page before
[22:31] <oh7fdn> galaxy nexus should work fine...
[22:32] <gdane> hmm cortex a9 - is it a armv5 or armv7?
[22:32] <Hashcode> v7
[22:32] <gdane> ohh then pxa more older proc
[22:32] <k1l> gdane: what i saw that device you mentioned looks too old/slow
[22:33] <gdane> i have htc x7510
[22:33] <gdane> athena
[22:33] <gdane> so ill wait my rasperri py then
[22:33] <gdane> it have to be delivered soon
[22:34] <gdane> right now i have debian rootfs + xfce on htc x7510
[22:34] <gdane> but comunicator stacks then i try to mek apt-get update
[22:34] <gdane> *make
[22:35] <k1l> gdane: that raspberry pi is not a ubuntu-phone hardware. you better want to look into #ubuntu-arm for that (but there is no ubuntu port for raspberry pi )
[22:35] <gdane> shell without x11 works fine
[22:37] <Hashcode> Does the GNex demo run on the current Android 3.0 kernel?  Or does Ubuntu Phone need alterations?
[22:38] <MrMorf> k1l: unfortunately, i had a lot of money and whant buy phone like as Prestigio PAP4040 DUO,  ZTE V880E.  How u think can i install ubuntu on this phone. I'm not very good at flashing phones, this would love to hear your opinion. Is it worth? 'm Afraid not wait to release their ancient phone handsets with preinstalled OS.
[22:40] <doomlord> whats the expected support roadmap for ubuntu phone. (i.e which phones is it likely to run on)
[22:40] <k1l> MrMorf: if you want to be safe get a galaxy nexus. since that is the dev-phone it will support ubuntu-phone. what devices will recieve support is not mentioned, yet
[22:41] <Hashcode> I would imagine some of that will depend on manufacturers and community devs putting it on existing devices.
[22:41] <k1l> doomlord: see that hardware minimum specs as posted above. and like i just told its not mentioned so far which devices will recieve support
[22:42] <Hashcode> I have so many technical questions about the GNex implementation (I support 5 OMAP4 phones for Android).  Feb 13th is far far away. :/
[22:43] <k1l> Hashcode: just ask them here an be patient. its not a very living channel but most phone-team guys idle in here and take a peek from time to time.
[22:44] <Hashcode> AH, wasn't sure any of the phone-team actually stopped by
[22:46] <gdane> Does Canonical plan to work with older comunicators?
[22:46] <k1l> gdane: honestly
[22:46] <k1l> , i would stick to the recommendations mentioned on that page, so far
[22:47] <gdane> ok, ill do when ill plane to buy new comunicator
[22:47] <gdane> bur right now i dont need new one
[22:47] <gdane> i work with stuff i have already
[22:48] <Hashcode> Dev Question: OMAP Android uses OMX-IL layer for HD codec/camera support.  Standard Ubuntu for devices like PandaBoard don't use OMX layer.  They use Gstreamer, etc.  Which will Ubuntu Phone use?
[22:48] <MrMorf> k1l, tnx for answer. I see on website, that different untill "Entry level Ubuntu smartphone" and "High-end Ubuntu "superphone"" only in desktop convergence? If i had PC with Windows, i think that i don't need high-end b coz, on my pc don't install unbuntu (only in virtual box). How u think, on this basis, what better buy: phone with  Cortex A9  or  Quad-core A9 or Intel Atom?
[22:50] <MrMorf> that is, I mean, I would buy high-end? in addition to performance.
[22:50] <k1l> MrMorf: i understand it that way, that you need the more power for a fluid desktop experience when docking the phone in and use it as a desktop with mouse and keyboard and monitor.
[22:52] <k1l> MrMorf: at this stage there is not much information on how good the real OS is running on which hardware. the whole OS is not really done right now. so i would wait for the code and images to show at the end of february
[22:53] <k1l> phones with ubuntu-phone are expected not before end of 2013 more like 2014.
[22:58] <MrMorf> k1l: I'm beginning to understand you better. But not sure that we understand each other correctly.I want to buy a new phone, but in the future to install ubuntu on it. But if I installed Windows. That is, whether it makes sense to take the more expensive phone with an "Quad-core A9 or Intel Atom" when in fact, I will not use the Desktop convergence?
[22:59] <MrMorf> windows on my PC*
[23:00] <k1l> MrMorf: you are not forced to use the desktop mode on that phone :) but since its hardware and this is still an early developing stage i would stick to the developing phone (galaxy nexus) or go with a similar better equipped one. i think a 4core device will run more fluid. but noone can guarantee you anything right now
[23:03] <MrMorf> k1l: tnx for u time and answer  :)
[23:23] <livefree424> Anyone have an ETA on when you can buy a phone with it pre-installed, ill probly flash it myself after its further developed but I would love to see it for sale in stores
[23:23] <Hashcode> ^^ about 5 comments
 phones with ubuntu-phone are expected not before end of 2013 more like 2014.
[23:23] <ubuntubhoy_> talking 2014
[23:24] <k1l> livefree424: end of 2013 or better beginning of 2014 was mentioned
[23:25] <livefree424> I just rolled in didn't see the other comments but that's cool its not too far out
[23:26] <darkstar> hi LL
[23:27] <darkstar> anyone have any fun updates
[23:27] <darkstar> Hi livefree


[07:22] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[07:31] <diplo> Morning all
[07:31] <brobostigon> morning diplo
[07:38] <diplo> morning brobostigon
[07:55] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:58] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:55] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[08:56] <Myrtti> Ascension day today :-P public holiday in Finland
[08:59] <DJones> No public holiday here for it, unusually, we haven't got a Church service, there's normally something arrange
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: same in .nl
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> though I wonder why.. nobody even goes to church anymore
[09:06] <mungbean> nobody?
[09:07] <Myrtti> my hometown is in big trouble because the church is way oversized for the current congregation apart from confirmation Sundays
[09:07] <Myrtti> when a lot of relatives of the kids attend
[09:07] <mungbean> i know many churches with year on year doubling of numbers
[09:07] <mungbean> >1000 ppls etc
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> We don't have that in .nl
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> Only declining numbers
[09:08] <mungbean> well there is a trend of late that only christians are attending church
[09:08] <Myrtti> numbers have been going down ever since you could resign the church officially easier too
[09:09] <mungbean> as opposed to culture dictating church attendance
[09:09] <MooDoo> lots of church number are dwindling, people just don't need it any more
[09:09] <JamesTait> Several months ago we had a visit from a friendly old man, who turned out to be a Jehova's Witness.  I humoured him for a while and thought that would be the end of it.  Now he visits every week, around Wednesday lunchtime, and I make my excuses and leave my wife to chat with him.
[09:09] <mungbean> so we are just seeing truer numbers
[09:09] <JamesTait> So we don't go to church, the church comes to us.
[09:09] <mungbean> except they are a cult
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: draw (in blood) a pentagram on the door, and open it naked
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: then shout back into the house "Honey, LUNCH just arrived!"
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: see if he ever returns :)
[09:10] <directhex> there is a strong correlation between belief in a deity, and national education standards
[09:10] <directhex> the US is a huge outlier there, for having okay education but high levels of religiousness
[09:10] <MartijnVdS> directhex: lack of belief, I guess?
[09:10] <DJones> I wouldn't say it was commonplace in the uk, there aren't significant numbers of new young families/people starting to attend, its normally older people who are regulars and as they get older, the number of regulars declines due to age
[09:10] <JamesTait> I told him quite plainly the first time he called that I don't believe in a creator.  I think he thinks because I haven't told him to get lost, he can convert me.
[09:10] <mungbean> directhex: also the poor/rich have different levels of belief. beware of attributing causation where there is only correlation
[09:11] <directhex> MartijnVdS, negative correlation is still a correlation
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> directhex: sure
[09:11] <directhex> mungbean, and the poor/rich have different levels of education, especially in "poor" countries!
[09:11] <directhex> mungbean, also, i carefully said "correlation" not "causation"
[09:11] <mungbean> yes
[09:12] <MooDoo> directhex: did I read that right as in if you believe you have a better education?  sorry got a bit of a headache so not thinking straight
[09:12]  * mungbean has a first class science degree
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: no that's the "negative correlation" bit
[09:12] <directhex> MooDoo, countries where people are well educated usually have fewer people who attend religious service than countries where people are poorly educated (and/or poor)
[09:13] <directhex> with the usa as an exception to that
[09:13] <MooDoo> people are realising you don't actually need to be religious to get on in life
[09:13] <mungbean> well God isn't an ATM
[09:14] <mungbean> except in africa, then pastors tend to preach wealth and prosperity ...
[09:14] <popey> Indeed. ATMs exist.
[09:14] <MooDoo> +1 popey
[09:14] <popey> http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/9/4314844/nokia-asha-501-new-platform-launch interesting
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> popey: I'm going to need proof of that
[09:15] <mungbean> lost an hour of my morning as i foolishly booted into windows yesterday to use vmware
[09:15]  * popey points at his bank statement from the past.. surely you believe this written proof from the prophets of "Santander"!?
[09:15] <mungbean> then ...installing 50 of 72
[09:15] <MooDoo> vmware o/
[09:15] <popey> eww
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> popey: All bow to Saint Ander! :)
[09:15] <popey> ☻
[09:18] <MooDoo> mungbean: that's the only reason I have a partition on my laptop for windows and vmware
[09:19] <mungbean> yes, ubuntu and vsphere OS
[09:19] <mungbean> i prefer that to using VMs but today it bites me
[09:19] <mungbean> has anyone seen instances of snapshotting a VM causes processes inside the vm to crash?
[09:20] <MooDoo> mungbean: well i'm using esxi 3.5 but the client is only for windows
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> http://resme.me/3ub21d.jpg
[09:21] <MooDoo> having a good day then MartijnVdS :)
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you know it! ;)
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> Was anyone outside last night? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22460716
[09:27] <diplo> I was, but didn't see it :)
[09:29] <MooDoo> I didn't even know about it :(
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: nobody did until it happened :)
[09:35] <mungbean> lol
[09:35] <mungbean> i was up till gone 4am
[09:36] <mungbean> not outside though
[09:36] <mungbean> not sure why it made the news
[09:36] <mungbean> doesn't it happen a lot?
[09:37] <diplo> Quite a bit, but not as noticable I guess as that
[09:37] <mungbean> i wonder where it landed
[09:39] <popey> people were tweeting about it last night
[10:04] <Wobbo> I would like to install the NVidia because the open source replacement is not going well at Asus eee1215N. Only the old way you could install this software no longer exists? In addition, my Wifi is also not good, this is an old problem. This problem is only for when you use the closed / commercial source. Alth very surprising that Ubuntu does as anti closed / commercial source. Can anyone help me?
[10:06] <bigcalm> Mornin' all
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: what's "the old way"?
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: there has been one "proper" way for years now
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: (and that's through jockey(-gtk))
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia
[10:07] <Wobbo> Old way is 12.04 and 12.10.
[10:07] <Wobbo> Sorry
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: it's still the same in 13.04
[10:09] <Wobbo> Yes and no,
[10:15] <Wobbo> At first, the standard was not closed / commercial source but now.
[10:16] <popey> eh?
[10:23] <Wobbo> So 13.04 is using the closedsource version for my Wi-fi instead of the opensource version.
[10:24] <popey> depends on your wifi card
[10:24] <popey> very little changed in terms of what drivers get used between 12.04, 12.10 and 13.04
[10:25] <popey> it's mostly just "newer stuff" in the newer releases
[10:27] <Wobbo> How to uninstall the current closedsource software Wi-Fi
[10:27] <popey> depens on your wireless card. what make/model is it?
[10:27] <Wobbo> And how to install NV?
[10:27] <popey> nv isn't maintained anymore
[10:28] <popey> nouveau (open source) or nvidia (closed) are
[10:30] <MooDoo> i just used the closed source drivers for nvidia from the additional drivers section of the software sources :D
[10:32] <diddledan> brb, switching machines
[10:33] <Wobbo> Thanks
[10:47] <SuperMatt> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/05/08/235237/did-the-queen-just-resurrect-the-snoopers-charter <- more reasons to ignore slashdot - they don't actually know anything about The Queen. TBH though, I struggle to find a news site that is at least as fully featured, without the idiocy
[10:47] <SuperMatt> it's the daily mail or tech
[10:47] <SuperMatt> *of
[10:48] <BigRedS> I tried HN for a bit, but that's even more fanboisim and even less news... :(
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> arstechnica is OK
[10:49] <mgdm> HN is OK if you only look at the links
[10:49] <mgdm> Do *not* read the comments
[10:49] <BigRedS> haha
[10:49] <popey> BigRedS: out of interested (wrt your comment on czajkowski's G+ post) where did you hear lament of Ubuntu server? Was it in an ubuntu channel or outside our "space"?
[10:49] <mgdm> (which is good advice for much of the internet)
[10:49]  * popey tickles mgdm with a spreadsheet :0
[10:49] <popey> ☻
[10:49] <SuperMatt> for instance, when the new packaging system was announced to be in development, the readers all jumped up and down and said "why are you ditching apt?" without reading that apt wouldn't be ditched
[10:50] <mgdm> popey: I gave it a go to discover it was dead :-) left it charging overnight, will do it at lunch
[10:50] <SuperMatt> mgdm: HN?
[10:50] <mgdm> SuperMatt: Hacker News - news.ycombinator.com
[10:50] <popey> booo
[10:50] <SuperMatt> ah right
[10:50] <BigRedS> popey: it's the common grumble at work currently. I think we hit a couple of daft bugs and the assumption is that this si because attention's switched away from the server and towards desktops
[10:50] <popey> yeah, i use hn now and then
[10:50] <SuperMatt> I've noticed that ars has been getting a little traction recently, I might start peeking at that more and mroe
[10:50] <popey> BigRedS: difficult given separate teams work on each really
[10:51] <BigRedS> we're also institutionally afraid of The Cloud, so that's all sort-of viewed as a bit of a distraction from 'proper' servers
[10:51] <BigRedS> yeah, I found it hard to imagine anyone being pulled off the server and given work on a DE...
[10:51] <mgdm> I've come around to the mindset that all my machines are disposable
[10:51] <mgdm> doubt I'll ever deploy something on bare metal again
[10:51] <mgdm> "that's not working? kill it, rebuild it"
[10:52] <BigRedS> mgdm: yeah, that's one of the benefits I've been trying to impress upon the people who make decisions here
[10:53] <mgdm> my dev server is a Vagrant box built with Puppet, too
[10:53] <mgdm> so if it breaks it's dead easy to start again
[11:00] <popey> BigRedS: have you seen the "please dont call it cloud" thread on the debian list?
[11:01] <Laney> rms ♥
[11:01] <MartijnVdS> popey: link? :)
[11:02] <popey> hah
[11:03] <popey> http://lists.debian.org/debian-cloud/2013/04/msg00032.html
[11:03] <popey> it's a big thread
[11:05] <directhex> i am tempted to reply to that thread with a link to a chromium extension i use, which replaces all in-text instances of "the cloud" with "my butt"
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> directhex: does it also do this: http://xkcd.com/37/
[11:05] <directhex> "I agree with Richard and would like to add that having a philosophy about "my butt" may be futile"
[11:06] <mgdm> That ext caused hilarity recently when someone I know did a talk at ac onf called 'Keeping the cloud in check', which he kept on getting told was obscene
[11:06] <mgdm> turned out the guy who thought it was obscene had that extension and forgot about it
[11:06] <BigRedS> popey: ooh, no, I've been ignoring debian-users for a while now...
[11:07] <BigRedS> popey: A few paragraphs in, that could be written by one of the directors here :(
[11:07] <BigRedS> Oh. RMS.
[11:08] <MartijnVdS> root mean square?
[11:09] <directhex> "I believe it is really important that you understand it fully, so that you can discuss "freedom in my butt" in general"
[11:12]  * brobostigon points at his mouth, and says, insert coffee here please. :)
[11:15] <MooDoo> brobostigon: just drinking mine now.....
[11:15] <MooDoo> :p
[11:15] <MartijnVdS> bah, coffee
[11:15]  * MartijnVdS makes some more tea
[11:15] <brobostigon> yummy, yes please.
[11:15]  * brobostigon makes some coffee
[11:19] <directhex> jesus christ RMS is a moron. he is utterly incapable of comprehending any computing concept from post-1980
[11:20]  * brobostigon slurps, :)
[11:20] <mgdm> does he still use that toy computer because it's the only thing in the world with open firmware?
[11:20] <diddledan> popcorn time?
[11:20] <mgdm> I wonder if he thinks that the hardware is entirely innocent :-)
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: he doesn't care about closed hardware.. as long as he has enough specs to write the software
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: also.. his "free software" ideals don't extend to documents in "human" languages
[11:21] <mgdm> so the hardware could be backdoored from here to the moon and he'd not care :-)
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> so documentation? out.
[11:24] <Myrtti> yay new keyboard
[11:26] <brobostigon> :)
[12:52] <mungbean> using rhn, how can i define that a server uses 6.2 release only and not 6.x (yum upgrade will update it to 6.4)
[12:54]  * popey blinks
[12:55] <mungbean> i could ask in redhat but they aren't as friendly o_0
[12:57] <JamesTait> mungbean, you're not asking Ubuntu questions in there are you? That might explain it. :-P
[12:58] <mungbean> :P
[12:58] <diplo> centos channel is awful
[12:58] <mungbean> nah just relationship advice
[13:00] <diplo> How about setting in the repo files to release=5.5&arch=x86&repo=os ?
[13:00] <diplo> When using vault.centos.org you have to manually set the version you're using
[13:01] <diplo> Good example maybe, not found an offical resource yet though
[13:01] <diplo> http://linuximagination.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/upgrading-centos-54-to-55not-latest.html
[13:08] <brobostigon> wow 25mph SW wind,
[13:14] <awilkins> The change to nautilus that means that typing starts a search, rather than selects an item in the current view, is really really annoying me, can it be configured to go back to the old way of doing it? (I presume so, I haven't noticed it on boxes I've upgraded to raring, just boxes that I've installed fresh)
[13:16] <SuperMatt> awilkins: I'm not sure it can be. I've actually found that to be extremely useful as it seems to now be searching subfolders too. So now I just go in to my videos folder, type xx and it'll find the prons I want from a subdir
[13:17] <awilkins> Yeah, it sucks for me because I have a vast hierarchy of files and it really makes things chunder
[13:17] <awilkins> We're talking folders with 20,000 files nested in them
[13:17] <diddledan> that's a lot of pron
[13:17] <awilkins> 20,000 videos (of any kind ;-) ) would be too big for most hard drives
[13:18] <awilkins> Mostly source code
[13:18] <mgdm> single hard drives perhaps, RAID arrays no
[13:19] <awilkins> I'll have to look for the option later, had not reflected that my upgraded machines aren't doing it but my new install is
[13:20] <awilkins> If it's one of these things where you have to enter cryptic dconf commands or edit an XML file I shall be vexed. Flippin' Gnome and their "Hide the useful stuff from people in case they use it"...
[13:20] <popey> awilkins: i agree
[13:20] <popey> i hate the new way nautilus works
[13:20] <awilkins> No in-pane tree expansion
[13:20] <popey> \o/ GNOME
[13:21] <awilkins> Stupid typing == search rather than navigation
[15:25] <bigcalm> AlanBell: what was the script that you used that generated a pretty diagram of a website's bottle necks?
[15:26] <christel> Bottled by Bell.
[15:26] <christel> (i made that up)
[15:26] <mgdm> that sounds like a perfume
[15:26] <bigcalm> christel: \o/
[15:26] <christel> hullu bigcalm!
[15:26] <christel> mgdm: would you wear it? :)
[15:27] <mgdm> I'd think about it, but then I'd probably bottle it
[15:28] <christel> haha
[15:31] <mgdm> how goes it, christel? Not seen you around these parts for a while
[15:32] <christel> it goes well! :)
[15:32] <mgdm> \o/
[15:50] <czajkowski> BigRedS: you're brave to reply to that unusal thread :)
[15:52] <AlanBell> bigcalm: the thing that does this? http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/callgraphs/contact.png
[15:52] <bigcalm> AlanBell: yes
[15:53] <bigcalm> AlanBell: I'm looking at webgrind, same thing?
[15:53] <AlanBell> xhprof
[15:54] <bigcalm> AlanBell: thanks
[15:54] <AlanBell> http://phpmaster.com/the-need-for-speed-profiling-with-xhprof-and-xhgui/
[15:54] <BigRedS> czajkowski: I was puzzled, it seemed a reasonable question :)
[15:56] <czajkowski> could just back things up to the cloud for the most part
[15:56] <bigcalm> AlanBell: the page helps a lot, thanks again. Looks like I'll be tinkering with it later
[15:56] <czajkowski> and if you are a technican of any sort you should have another HD
[15:56] <czajkowski> alternaitvely borrow one.
[15:56] <czajkowski> but not sending the device back...
[15:56] <bigcalm> So. How do people feel about dressing up for the RAT in September? :)
[15:56] <czajkowski> negative :)
[15:56] <bigcalm> Haha
[15:57] <czajkowski> gonna be a fun night
[15:57] <christel> dressing up eh? :)
[15:57] <czajkowski> bunch of the LUG folks are coming also
[15:57] <bigcalm> Cool
[15:57] <bigcalm> czajkowski: get them added to http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/?
[15:58] <czajkowski> they won't :)
[15:58] <bigcalm> Fair enough
[15:58] <BigRedS> czajkowski: I did nearly check how much free S3 you get, but then I realised that I wasn't that interested
[16:00] <christel> i shall add myself to that seeing how i have procured tickets a while bakc
[16:00] <czajkowski> tbh the replies to the service desk were rather rude tbh - they've offered to collect it and fix it, like anything though evne when I sent my machine back  you have to accomdate the request if you want your stuff fixed
[16:00] <czajkowski> christel: w00p
[16:13] <popey> Uh-oh!
[16:13] <popey> overhearing the "christening" conversation going on in the kitchen
[16:15] <mgdm> You're mishearing.  Except that will result in me getting duplicate emails
[16:37] <czajkowski> popey: is that a bad conversation :)
[16:38] <popey> depends
[16:38] <popey> Azelphur: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/05/weve-got-a-butterfly-labs-bitcoin-miner-and-its-pretty-darn-fast/
[16:39] <Azelphur> fun
[16:41] <popey> czajkowski: we came to an agreeable solution which is the kids will choose what they want when they're old enough
[16:42] <czajkowski> nods
[16:42] <popey> sam started asking about it today because one of his friends must have brought it up I guess
[16:42] <czajkowski> I asuumed it wasn't about your kids
[16:42] <popey> yeah, it is
[16:42] <popey> Sam started asking more questions and whether he should be or not
[16:42] <czajkowski> ahh
[16:42] <popey> i dont believe 6 is old enough to make the decision
[16:43] <czajkowski> no
[16:43] <czajkowski> not really considering you only make your comunion when you're about 8 and that;s only just enough time to undersand it all, and 12 for confirmation
[16:44] <neuro> ah communion and confirmation ...
[16:44]  * neuro remembers them well
[16:45] <neuro> i bet ubuntubhoy does as well </enforce-stereotype> :)
[16:45] <AlanBell> anyone following the discussion about reinventing the package manager wheel?
[16:45] <czajkowski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPkByAkAdZs&feature=youtu.be <-- favourite add I keep rewatching
[16:45] <AlanBell> the bit I don't get is the problem of apps overwiting their own code
[16:45] <AlanBell> why is that a terrible thing?
[16:46] <neuro> because it's naughty?
[16:46] <AlanBell> why?
[16:46] <neuro> because it is?
[16:46] <neuro> i basically have no argument here
[16:46] <popey> because you test something that says "I wont do naughty things"
[16:46] <popey> and then it self modifies to do those naughty things
[16:46] <neuro> popey++
[16:47] <neuro> polymorphic code \o/
[16:47] <popey> allows programs to self-update
[16:47] <popey> See Facebook on android
[16:47] <AlanBell> hmm, so to avoid the problem of apps being able to overwite their own code we currently use sudo dpkg -i foo.deb , which allows the installation scripts of foo.deb to overwrite important stuff
[16:47] <popey> well they cant now because they dont have rights
[16:47] <neuro> but is that downloading new support data within its sandbox, or is it modifying the apk?
[16:48] <popey> not sure how fb does it, but it's "bad"
[16:48] <jacobw> DEBIAN/md5sums?
[16:48] <popey> such that google says so
[16:48] <neuro> facebook doing something "bad"? NOOOOOO!
[16:48] <Azelphur> popey: you reminded me I needed to call BFL about mine, just did it :p
[16:48] <AlanBell> I can see that it isn't brilliant, however installing as root seems worse
[16:48] <popey> AlanBell: but we curate those debs
[16:48] <Azelphur> the guy on the phone sounds a bit lost lol
[16:48] <popey> there's a difference
[16:48] <Azelphur> but, apparently I'mma be one of the first to get one
[16:49]  * neuro points at package signing too
[16:49] <jacobw> Maintainer scripts shouldn't change any files other than the package's conffiles
[16:49] <popey> when debs install the install scripts run as root, which is bad mmkay
[16:49] <popey> you don't want random fart apps to have root on your phone
[16:49] <neuro> maybe *you* don't
[16:50] <popey> I don't. No.
[16:50] <neuro> fart
[16:50] <neuro> you now have the word 'fart' in my head, cheers
[16:50] <neuro> fart
[16:50] <jacobw> I don't want to be the guy who let the app the bosses kid downloaded steal his credit card details
[16:50] <mgdm> it's OK, you won't need apps for that, now that the Onion have released fartscroll.js
[16:50] <neuro> mgdm: faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaart?
[16:50] <mgdm> neuro: http://theonion.github.io/fartscroll.js/
[16:50] <AlanBell> yeah, I would rather that the install scripts run sandboxed
[16:51] <mgdm> neuro: make window small and scroll
[16:51] <neuro> jacobw: apps that enable cc payments outwith the app's ecosystem should burn in hell
[16:51] <neuro> mgdm: EPIC
[16:52] <neuro> love the comments too
[16:52] <AlanBell> jacobw: yeah, but maintainer scripts *can* do whatever they want
[16:52] <AlanBell> maybe this new format won't have stuff in the bundle that gets executed
[16:52] <AlanBell> as part of the installation that is
[16:52] <popey> exactly
[16:53] <popey> basically it should contain a zip (or whatever) containing the app, and a manifest which tells apparmour what the app is allowed to do
[16:53] <neuro> mgdm: actually the comments remind me of some random commit comments i've been making for the last couple of days
[16:53] <mgdm> heh
[16:53] <mgdm> neuro: http://whatthecommit.com/
[16:53] <jacobw> They can, but Debian policy disallows maintainer scripts that change files from other packages or files in the package that aren't conffiles
[16:54] <jacobw> It's a complete policy, it just doesn't accodomate for things like Webmin
[16:54] <AlanBell> indeed, so when installing a random .deb the first thing you do is give it root access to your system before you figure out what is in it
[16:54] <AlanBell> or you unzip it and read the scripts
[16:55] <AlanBell> or you get it from a trusted repository
[16:55] <jacobw> That's true, but that's the point of the policy, you won't get a maintainer script that changes files it shouldn't from Debian
[16:55] <neuro> mgdm: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13137/Screen%20Shot%202013-05-09%20at%2017.54.10.png
[16:56] <ubuntubhoy> neuro: which of my stereotypes ?
[16:56] <AlanBell> nom nom doggy noms http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Canonical-plans-dogfood-capable-phones-by-the-end-of-May-1859877.html
[16:56] <mgdm> neuro: ffs :P
[16:57] <neuro> ubuntubhoy: i have (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that you were raised RC and thus subjected to communion and confirmation
[16:57] <neuro> mgdm: ffs? :)
[16:57] <mgdm> neuro: crap commit messages do my head in :-)
[16:57] <neuro> the commit itself was relatively self explanatory
[16:57] <neuro> also i'm really the only one using that repo
[16:58] <mgdm> my 'favourite' one of late consisted of one line saying 'weird', while committing one useful change to a CSS file, a bunch of random reindenting to another CSS file, and a zero-byte a.out file
[16:58] <mgdm> People who git commit -am "weird" without doing a git diff first ought to be launched into the sun
[16:58] <neuro> nice
[16:58] <neuro> yes, i agree
[16:59] <ali1234> i love how ever bzr project has thousands of commits called "temp commit" and similar
[16:59] <neuro> "Sorry, this commit history took too long to generate." Gee, thanks github
[16:59] <mgdm> I'm not fond of git merge commits either, but I can live with them I suppose
[16:59] <ali1234> github just went down btw
[16:59] <ubuntubhoy> neuro: nope - was raised without religion - Catholic dad & Jewish mother, went to a non-dom (Protestant) school, and lived in an area with a majority Asian population. To me all religion is bollocks
[17:00] <neuro> lucky sod :)
[17:01] <neuro> good catch on non-dom ... at the high school I went to (the Gregory's Girl one), it always amused me we got carted off to the Kirk every easter, and you got funny looks if you wanted to stay behind
[17:01] <neuro> ali1234: seems ok here, apart from not being able to look at a git repo's commit history
[17:02] <ubuntubhoy> neuro: I think it's a Scottish disease though.
[17:02] <neuro> aye
[17:02] <neuro> my folks were pretty good about it but i was still going to chapel til i was 18
[17:02] <neuro> (altar boy, ha!)
[17:03] <mgdm> the graphs on https://status.github.com/ do show a bit of a spike
[17:03] <neuro> then i made some Religious Life Choices
[17:03] <neuro> so yeah, popey, make em wait til they're 18 :
[17:03] <neuro> :)
[17:03] <neuro> blimeh
[17:03] <neuro> spikage
[17:04] <neuro> i need to build something like that at my new gig
[17:04] <popey> indeed, 16/18 or thereabouts sounds fair :D
[17:04] <popey> when they can do whatever they like and not actually ask me
[17:04] <neuro> "leave me aloooone!" :)
[17:05] <ubuntubhoy> at `1
[17:05] <popey> hopefully by then all religions will be eradicated and the world will be more enlightened anyway ㋛
[17:05] <ubuntubhoy> at 18 they only have one question
[17:05] <mgdm> neuro: I have an NFS server that the clients keep getting 'nfs: server <IP_ADDRESS> not responding, still trying' - any idea what resource on the server itself I need to increase?
[17:05] <popey> can I have a car?
[17:05] <ubuntubhoy> can I get (insert expensive option here)
[17:05] <neuro> umm buffery things?
[17:05] <popey> sophie asked for an ipod touch for xmas
[17:05] <ubuntubhoy> how old ?
[17:05] <mgdm> neuro: do you know the name for the buffery widget things?
[17:06] <popey> 9
[17:06] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[17:06] <popey> bunch of her friends have them
[17:06] <mgdm> (also buffery is something you don't want to typo)
[17:06] <popey> they're very popular amongst that age group
[17:06] <popey> a few have ipads
[17:06] <ubuntubhoy> popular in every age group
[17:06] <popey> well, yes ☻
[17:06] <neuro> mgdm: http://nfs.sourceforge.net/nfs-howto/ar01s05.html maybe?
[17:06] <ubuntubhoy> my youngest two bought their own iPod touches with birthday/xmas money and savings
[17:06] <neuro> buy her one and lock it down?
[17:07] <popey> yeah, I dont mind if they buy their own
[17:07] <neuro> with your own apple id
[17:07] <popey> but I'm not buying one for them
[17:07] <popey> too expensive
[17:07] <neuro> or ok, don't :)
[17:07] <ubuntubhoy> we limit xmas & B'day pressies
[17:07] <popey> they both have ipods already
[17:08] <ubuntubhoy> same amount on all four
[17:08] <ubuntubhoy> never anything mental
[17:08] <neuro> yeah but ipods don't do "stuff"
[17:08] <mgdm> neuro: I've added more instances of the nfsd. Might prod t'other ones eventually. Dont' want to break it, clearly :)
[17:08] <neuro> totally
[17:08]  * neuro is going to be looking at glusterfs soonish
[17:09] <popey> you have four kids ubuntubhoy ?
[17:09] <neuro> and tossing out oracle mysql in favour of percona
[17:09] <mgdm> I'm looking at either percona or perhaps mariadb
[17:09] <neuro> maria is allegedly not as compatible as percona
[17:09] <mgdm> o rly?
[17:09] <mgdm> didn't hear that
[17:09] <neuro> allegedly
[17:09] <mgdm> we'd be doing a 5.1 -> something newer migration anyway
[17:09] <neuro> but it can do funky stuff like multi-master plus slaves which apparently mysql and percona can't do
[17:10] <mgdm> hmmm
[17:10]  * neuro is looking at a multiple 5.1+5.5 migration :P
[17:10] <mgdm> we just do normal master/slave tuff
[17:10] <neuro> it's going to be a paaaaaaain
[17:10] <mgdm> our infra is not that tricky in the grand scheme of things
[17:10] <neuro> i'm leaning towards master+slave as it gives bigger DR options, so we can chuck a slave in ap-southeast-foo or us-west-foo
[17:11] <ubuntubhoy> popey: yeah 12, 14, 21 and 23
[17:11] <bigcalm> Getting a little unhappy on the ml today :S
[17:11] <neuro> but multi-master sounds ossm
[17:11] <neuro> perfOOOOOrmance!
[17:11] <mgdm> percona are cool of only because of xtrabackup
[17:11] <neuro> ^ this
[17:12] <neuro> but as a co they are frickin amazing
[17:12] <neuro> they helped us loads at linden lab
[17:12] <mgdm> I've met a couple of blokes from them at various conferences - they do know their stuff
[17:12] <neuro> they Know Stuff
[17:12] <neuro> ha
[17:12] <popey> meh @ list
[17:12] <popey> Liam is right IMO
[17:12] <neuro> which list, uk?
[17:13] <bigcalm> Hai
[17:13] <bigcalm> I mean yes
[17:20] <neuro> popey: just caught up, i agree
[17:20] <neuro> if you're not backing up business critical data, especially from a laptop, you're mad
[17:21]  * neuro has rsnapshot and time machine running everywhere, saves so much hassle
[17:26] <bigcalm> 2 x 2TB discs should be here on Monday to replace current backup drives. Do I go with 4TB of space or 2TB RAID1 like the other 2 drives in the server?
[17:26] <bigcalm> The latter means I need to remember how to set-up the raid again :)
[17:27] <jpds> bigcalm: RAID5.
[17:27] <jpds> Actually, probably a bad idea on disks that size.
[17:27] <popey> \o/ btrfs
[17:27] <neuro> :)
[17:27] <bigcalm> Tea time!
[17:27]  * bigcalm slithers awau
[17:27] <bigcalm> away
[17:27] <neuro> i only use raid1 when i absolutely positively need some form of data security
[17:27] <neuro> raid5 for everything else
[17:27] <neuro> raid0 is deadly
[17:27] <neuro> imho
[17:28] <neuro> been burned by it before
[17:28] <neuro> never again
[19:10] <popey> Happy Birthday Daviey !
[19:40] <CyberJacob> evening all
[19:41] <mungbean> howdy
[19:41] <CyberJacob> Is anybody else getting 'moderated list' messages for the ubuntu-uk mailing list?
[19:42] <popey> CyberJacob: are you subscribed?
[19:42] <CyberJacob> yup
[19:43] <CyberJacob> And I replied from the same address I'm subscribed with
[19:43] <popey> strange
[19:43] <CyberJacob> I've replied from the wrong address before, and I think the message just got blocked
[19:43] <popey> your address is set to moderation
[19:44] <CyberJacob> ok, any idea why?
[19:45] <popey> nope ☻
[19:46] <popey> have undone it
[19:46] <CyberJacob> thanks :)
[19:50] <mungbean> 10.04 ends today? argh
[19:52] <mungbean> my desktop at work runs it
[19:55] <popey> really windy out
[19:55] <popey> yes
[19:57] <mungbean> yes, its like october
[20:07] <jacobw> That's an odd description
[20:12] <mungbean> wind & rain
[20:12] <mungbean> watching hoarders prog. feeling convicted
[20:13] <mungbean> too much stuff , too small house
[20:18] <popey> i love those hoarders programmes
[20:18] <popey> what channel is it on?
[20:20] <mungbean> bbc1, not as good as "the hoarder next door"
[20:21] <mungbean> this one is britains biggest hoarders
[20:21] <mungbean> just been scoffing my face after watching secret eaters
[20:21] <mungbean> hoping to get to sleep before 4am toinght
[20:21] <mungbean> poorly child
[20:24] <mungbean> anyone used http://project-redcap.org/ before?
[20:39] <mungbean> this bbc version is more about bag ladies and mad ppl
[20:42] <popey> \o/
[20:42] <popey> Mr Trebus
[20:47] <Stuz719> \part
[21:09] <shauno> oddly enough, I don't think I've ever seen a nerd on any of these 'hoarder' shows
[21:10] <mungbean> last week was a guy with old pcs and car parts
[21:10] <mungbean> but not a usual geek because extreme behaviour is a bit of an ollness
[21:10] <mgdm> I know several people that could be ;-)
[21:11] <mungbean> i had >10pcs before i got married
[21:11] <mungbean> msinly due to office clearance
[21:11] <mungbean> i gave them to ppl
[21:11] <makt> Evening all :)
[21:13] <mungbean> last week i threw away some amiga memory and ps/2 kb/mice
[21:14] <mungbean> and loads of ram
[21:20] <popey> i know someone who is a geek and a hoarder
[21:20] <popey> you have to climb over stuff to get into his house
[21:21] <czajkowski> popey: Jon :)
[21:21] <mungbean> he hoards tech?
[21:21] <czajkowski> everything and anything
[21:21] <czajkowski> bucket and buckets of cables, radios, old computers, discs, ram
[21:22] <mungbean> my house is q bad right now but me mrs e 2 tired with sprogs
[21:23]  * czajkowski is a tidt freak
[21:23] <czajkowski> and I like things in boxes even clear boxes
[21:23] <diddledan> I think genetically men are incapable of throwing things away :-p (said as a man)
[21:24] <czajkowski> was great fun moving down from london, got a load of clear containers and one box was for each area , phones, radios, cables, etc had to get more boxes, he doesnt like getting rid of stuff
[21:24] <czajkowski> diddledan: I find the disapproving look to be a good look at things not being kept
[21:35] <popey> my den is quite tidy for me
[21:35] <popey> tidy enough that I can get the sofa bed out
[21:38] <czajkowski> popey: tidy in the view of your webcam for hangouts :)
[21:39] <popey> yup
[21:39] <popey> its tidy outside the cone of clean too
[21:39] <popey> right, bed
[21:39] <czajkowski> toodles
[21:46] <daftykins> although he may not necessarily wear clothes outside of the cone of cam view :>
[22:03] <fujisan> hello
[22:03] <fujisan> where can i download the new Ubuntu and can i run it on a single core AMD cpu?
[22:04] <bigcalm> fujisan: ubuntu.com and yes :)
[22:04] <fujisan> thanks
[22:06] <daftykins> http://releases.ubuntu.com/raring/ubuntu-13.04-desktop-amd64.iso
[22:06] <daftykins> that one no less
[22:07] <fujisan> oh wait
[22:07] <fujisan> my CPU isnt 64 bit
[22:07] <daftykins> no?
[22:07] <fujisan> it's 32
[22:07] <fujisan> it's very old
[22:07] <daftykins> http://releases.ubuntu.com/raring/ubuntu-13.04-desktop-i386.iso
[22:07] <daftykins> is it an AMD Athlon XP?
[22:07] <fujisan> oh thanks
[22:07] <fujisan> yes
[22:07] <fujisan> how did you know?
[22:07] <bigcalm> Should work still
[22:07] <daftykins> mmm might not perform very well
[22:07] <daftykins> how much RAM?
[22:07] <bigcalm> They were very popular, lucky guess :)
[22:07] <directhex> athlon xp was awesome, once
[22:08] <fujisan> 2 gb
[22:08] <fujisan> lol directhex :)
[22:08] <directhex> i had a duron
[22:08] <bigcalm> I still have mine
[22:08] <directhex> too cheap for athlon
[22:08] <daftykins> well before the Athlon64 there were only AMD Athlon XP's and AMD Semprons that were 32-bit only
[22:08] <fujisan> yes it was in 2004 when i got it
[22:08] <daftykins> :D
[22:08] <fujisan> how much to built a new AMD pc you reckon?
[22:09]  * bigcalm throws some shapes to The Crystal Method and gets back to bench testing
[22:09] <fujisan> i have a Mac but i wont Ubuntu since we use it at work
[22:09] <daftykins> some say they're cheap but i always put together intel 'cause they just seem to win it since the last few years
[22:10] <daftykins> i've wanted to check out a modern AMD system - just don't want to pay to find out
[22:10] <directhex> amd is dirt cheap
[22:10] <fujisan> yeah i just want a rig that runs Ubuntu fairly decent i dont need anything high end
[22:10] <daftykins> fujisan: just run xubuntu or lubuntu instead
[22:10] <directhex> cpu is about tree fiddy. motherboard is five quid plus a kingsize snickers.
[22:10] <fujisan> i tried those both on my old PC
[22:10] <daftykins> they'll still run well on old hardware
[22:11] <fujisan> and the irony is im not trolling is that windows7 seems to run better on old hw than Ubuntu these days
[22:11] <daftykins> directhex: damn monster tell me he need tree fiddy ;x
[22:11] <fujisan> better*
[22:11] <daftykins> hmm
[22:11] <fujisan> but i like the new direction of Ubuntu
[22:12] <fujisan> so i want to try it at home as well
[22:12] <daftykins> i'm right now debating buying a PATA SSD for £100 for my old Sony ultra-portable, it runs Windows XP on an intel core solo ultra low voltage 1.2GHz
[22:12] <daftykins> i guess it'd be kinda stupid for me to put money into something so old :>
[22:12] <fujisan> yeah maybe i still kept my old PC
[22:13] <fujisan> i dont like to throw out something just because it's old
[22:13] <fujisan> i spend 80 euros on it a few years ago to get a new powersupply
[22:14] <daftykins> yeah stuff like that's fine
[22:14] <daftykins> i ran my Athlon XP until Christmas 2007/8
[22:15] <daftykins> then i upgraded to an intel core 2 quad
[22:15] <daftykins> gave the Athlon XP to a friend :) he kept her going for a few more years
[22:15] <daftykins> he eventually finished studying to be a Doctor so finally could afford his own though
[22:16] <fujisan> oh okay that's great
[22:17] <daftykins> but yeah the little laptop isn't really much use to me
[22:17] <daftykins> lives on a shelf at the moment
[22:17] <fujisan> in my city we even have repair centers for old appliances it was even featured in the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/world/europe/amsterdam-tries-to-change-culture-with-repair-cafes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
[22:17] <daftykins> ooh neat
[22:17] <daftykins> it's definitely how it should be
[22:17] <daftykins> culture's too disposable
[22:17] <fujisan> yeah
[22:18] <daftykins> it does make me sad when people just buy a new PC when all it needs is an OS reinstall or say, a new HDD
[22:19] <daftykins> equally though they probably don't want to pay me my hourly rate to sort it out
[22:19] <daftykins> as that's the kind of work i do
[22:28] <fujisan> yeah well some people just want the latest and the greatest
[22:28] <daftykins> hmm i don't even know which is newer of AMD Piledriver + Bulldozer
[22:29] <fujisan> me neither
[22:30] <fujisan> i just wonder if i could get a nice budget AMD system for 300 euros
[22:32] <fujisan> maybe i should double that budget though :)
[22:33] <fujisan> and it's not for gaming so i can get a cheap gfx card
[22:34] <daftykins> Ah Piledriver appears newer
[22:34] <daftykins> why have a card at all if it's got onboard? :)
[22:35] <fujisan> yeah good point i didnt know AMD did that
[22:36] <daftykins> they might not be the top performers mind you
[22:36] <daftykins> i found a recent AMD vs. Intel kind of article
[22:36] <daftykins> http://anandtech.com/show/6396/the-vishera-review-amd-fx8350-fx8320-fx6300-and-fx4300-tested
[22:38] <daftykins> comparing at the top end, a £125 AMD FX8350 to an Intel i7-3770K at £233
[22:38] <daftykins> that's definitely quite the price difference
[22:39] <directhex> daftykins, my cpu is 4 years old now.
[22:40] <daftykins> what are you running? my desktop has a Q6600 on LGA775
[22:40] <daftykins> so that's about 5yrs
[22:40] <directhex> also mobo and half my ram. and psu and case. and blu-ray drive. and speakers. i think that's all the original components
[22:40] <directhex> daftykins, i7 920
[22:40] <directhex> on socket 1366
[22:41] <daftykins> ah yeah
[22:41] <daftykins> i remember that being the premium option at the time
[22:41] <directhex> super premium :|
[22:41] <daftykins> hehe
[22:41] <directhex> >£100 motherboards
[22:41] <daftykins> she's lasted well though
[22:41] <directhex> as entry level for the socket
[22:41] <daftykins> i don't know if you remember fraggy from quakenet, but he is running about the same
[22:41] <directhex> i tried cheaping out on the only sub-£100 mobo, an XFX. DOA.
[22:41] <directhex> got it replaced. DOA.
[22:42] <daftykins> :(
[22:42] <daftykins> officially stung
[22:42] <directhex> paid the price difference for gigabyte. fine first time
[22:42] <directhex> problem now is a significant cpu upgrade without replacing the mobo is... LOTS of money. LOTS.
[22:42] <daftykins> i'm glad i gave up the upgrade game
[22:42] <daftykins> ja indeed, you may as well get a new case and do a whole separate build
[22:43] <daftykins> i've the same situation with LGA775
[22:43] <daftykins> and do you know, i don't even think the upgrade would feel justified, even once Intel's Haswell is out
[22:43] <directhex> the cpu support list for this mobo is 66% xeons
[22:44] <daftykins> hahaha
[22:44] <daftykins> £££
[22:44] <directhex> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=2958
[22:45] <daftykins> there we go, a top-end Nehalem? :>
[22:45] <daftykins> 130W TDPs feature a lot there >_<
[22:45] <directhex> about £50 00 on ebay for a W3690 nehalem
[22:46] <directhex> er, £500
[22:46] <directhex> used
[22:46] <directhex> imported
[22:47] <directhex> bed.
[22:47] <daftykins> nn sir
[22:47] <daftykins> fujisan: AMD Trinity is what you want to look at for budget CPUs with graphics
[22:47] <daftykins> just read what they are :D
[22:58] <shauno> your nicks seem to line up just enough that for a moment there, I thought it was just one person talking to himself
[22:58] <daftykins> me and hexy are actually one schizophrenic individual :(