[00:15] <Bashing-om> krytarik: popey: "@Bashingom I could probably create a bot account which just uses the RSS feed from the fridge to post when a new issue comes out, if that's any use?".
[00:17] <guiverc> more than just UWN gets posted to fridge; most from us (News) which includes release stuff, but Community Council have posted notices about members losing that privilege before there too  (ie. not 'great' news though that's rare)
[00:20] <Bashing-om> guiverc: I bet however that popey can set up the bot to scrape for only UWN.
[00:20] <guiverc> there are TAGS though; if the RSS feed was to scan & limit "<category>News</category>" etc the rare stuff could be excluded...
[00:21] <guiverc> ^ what I was ~typing
[00:21] <guiverc> I'd have thought the release stuff is worth including anyway  (to me you'd want to avoid the very rare stuff; it can create some 'hate' type reactions..)
[00:22] <guiverc> s/hate/negative ^
[00:23] <krytarik> Yeah, I was also thinking of the category thing here, but also it'd likely be limited to post title and URL - as opposed to either our usual formatting for social media or even the personal one.
[00:23] <Bashing-om> guiverc: What I am dping on Masyodon presently - like so: https://ubuntu.social/@Bashingom/109819670936137265 .
[00:23] <guiverc> I'm pretty consistent with title; I believe I've only made a typo in title the once..  (2017 to now)
[00:25] <guiverc> :) Great Bashing-om !   (i was on a waiting list for popey's ubuntu.social; I'll have to chase that up)
[00:31] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Maybe popey is real backed up presently - was quick for me when I applied.
[00:33] <krytarik> It would seem we could simply tie it to the Planet category then - some of those unpleasant posts I remember weren't tagged with it either.
[00:33] <guiverc> i joined just prior to Christmas so assumed Alan was taking time off (fine with me), but I've just not followed it up; re-tried
[00:34] <Eickmeyer> Unrelated, and possibly controversial question: Have you guys thought about posting on the discourse as opposed to the wiki in the future?
[00:34] <guiverc> I concur; the 'defrock' (sorry can't think of a better word) type of posts don't have planet tagged as I recall either  (community maybe only)
[00:35] <guiverc> I posted copies to discourse (long ago), but not the same thing as just summary/redirects to wiki
[00:36] <Eickmeyer> Right, but the wiki is moribund. Most documentation is being transferred to discourse, fwiw.
[00:38] <krytarik> I'm not sure Discourse wouldn't throw a fit at the full length of the usual UWN issues for once though, similar to the forums.
[00:39] <Eickmeyer> Nah, it wouldn't. Highly scalable, more resilliant.
[00:39] <Bashing-om> Yeah - on the Forums I have to do some curtailing :(
[00:39] <guiverc> If you wanted me to test, I could try posting a UWN on Lubuntu's discourse in Admin area (You won't be able to see), but if similar version of discourse I can at least have a 'look'
[00:41] <krytarik> Well, the issue on the forums isn't the scalability either though, but rather it'd raise security issues thinking it's spam.
[00:42] <Eickmeyer> discourse != forums. Not the same thing. Throw what you know of the old Ubuntu forums out of your head, they're not the same thing or the same infrastructure or the same spam filtering.
[00:46] <guiverc> first issue would be size; An error occurred: Body is limited to 32000 characters; you entered 46012  (error tacking UWN773 to a very short test post on lubuntu discourse)
[00:46] <krytarik> guiverc: Thinking about it, since the UWN is literally the only thing we post on the wiki rather than on the Fridge directly, do you think WordPress would cope with their length? :3
[00:48] <guiverc> I have no idea krytarik , you fix many of my mistakes/booboos knowing more about wordpress (& esp. formatting) that I do
[00:48] <Eickmeyer> guiverc: The Ubuntu discourse might perform differently. Canonical's infra vs te_ward's personal infra.
[00:49] <guiverc> I can't disagree with that, I have no idea, and even if same version, settings maybe different..
[00:49] <krytarik> I mean I guess we could just test it by creating a draft there with the current issue.. but then we'd also have to adapt our workflow with Bashing-om being the one who currently assembles the issue on the wiki and who doesn't do WP yet..
[00:50] <guiverc> Yep was thinking of that krytarik ; I can do so.  (& yep... it was clearly visible discourse didn't know what to do with much wiki formatting..)
[00:50] <Eickmeyer> If worse comes to worst, a simple question to IS about it would probably be about as painful as it gets (with a tag to aaronprisk[m]).
[00:52] <Bashing-om> and aaronprisk[m] frequebts the #ubuntu-community-team channel :)
[00:53] <Bashing-om> frequents*
[00:53] <Eickmeyer> (Literally his job)
[00:55]  * guiverc waits for preview to show result... (https://fridge.ubuntu.com/?p=9735&preview=true for those you can peek if they want to)  ... WordPress coped with length well & ignoring formatting issues; it looks good; which some PICS picked up from the 9to5 URLS (not others though)
[00:57] <guiverc> With only picking up 9to5 URLS for pics/shares, we could be 'accused' of favoring?  I don't know why, but that's what I see (just site specific though)
[00:57] <Eickmeyer> Can't see it at all.
[00:58]  * guiverc trying to get around that..
[01:04] <guiverc> try https://imgur.com/QrxB3Pk
[01:05] <krytarik> guiverc: Oh, you mean that it seems to have magically changed the link anchor text in some instances (but not even all of the 9to5linux ones) to the post title?
[01:05] <guiverc> yeah... (inc. not all which I missed at first)... yeah
[01:05] <Eickmeyer> Wordpress magically does that for Wordpress.
[01:06] <guiverc> that was just a paste of wiki.page into a blank (no tag, title added) on fridge/wp
[01:06] <guiverc> it did it only for 3 links (and 2 look very similar)
[01:19] <aaronprisk[m]> I was going to reach out here in the coming days to ask about the future platform for UWN, but since it was brought up.. Do you feel that Discourse would serve as an adequate platform?
[01:22] <guiverc> Personally I'd prefer discourse to wordpress, but that's just me.
[01:27] <Bashing-om> I will use whatever tools are at my disposal - whatever broadens exposure is a good thing.
[01:27]  * guiverc just deleted the test773 on fridge  (so not accidently published)
[01:28] <aaronprisk[m]> I agree. As was stated earlier, it would have the benefit of living on our infrastructure and have the moderation and helpful metrics that come with Discourse.
[01:28] <aaronprisk[m]> I'd be more than happy to help with a transition and remove any blockers.
[01:29] <krytarik> guiverc: When posting to Discourse, can you also just drop a plain URL there without any tags or such and it'll be rendered as an actual link rather than it being unclickable text like on WP?
[01:31] <krytarik> Or anyone else here who regularly posts to any Discourse instance, for that matter.
[01:31] <guiverc> I'd have to post to recall what i do ..  (I just do it, & adjust if I used the wrong formatting for the site; being worse at wp than others).. but a quick look at a doco link on lubu.discourse, URLS are just that & become links
[01:32] <guiverc> I'll re-test with UWN773 (but not all of it this time so no size limit reached)
[01:33] <guiverc> links look okay (diff color), open correctly
[01:34] <guiverc> none of the pics that I saw on wordpress, but all URLs in planet are treated EQUALLY thus easier for us too so ++
[01:35] <aaronprisk[m]> IIRC you use Google docs for staging of links/future issue drafts, correct?
[01:36] <krytarik> guiverc: Alright, that's something at least..  And looking around the net on Discourse formatting, it seems we should mostly match it with what we currently do on the wiki.. so what specifically would be off there?
[01:36] <krytarik> And yes, that's (unfortunately) correct.
[01:36] <guiverc> aaronprisk[m], yep.
[01:37] <guiverc> alas it was cleared earlier today (after 773 was published)
[01:38] <guiverc> The title format '== General Community' & '[01:38] <aaronprisk[m]> I mention it because Discourse does a pretty good job of pulling the formatting from the doc and turning it into the proper Markdown that Discourse likes.
[01:39] <krytarik> guiverc: You mean it doesn't like the right part of them?  Wondered if that'd be the case.
[01:39] <guiverc> the [01:40]  * guiverc trying to get screengrab; but it's not reading my firefox/snap window; just getting black for some reason
[01:40] <krytarik> Oh right, different character..
[01:40] <guiverc> that's only adjustment on our skeleton; easy as I see it
[01:41] <krytarik> Yeah, that'd be super trivial then indeed.
[01:43] <krytarik> And grabbing from the Google Doc directly wouldn't work, because we also got notes and placeholders and different formatting there.
[01:44] <guiverc> https://imgur.com/Pxa2Vxq.png is a full screen; sorry it's everything (and messy) .. but the window view is at top (three displays; top screen so middle/top third)
[01:44] <aaronprisk[m]> krytarik: Makes sense. You can always start your topics as unlisted in Discourse, which is what we typically do when working on new community docs, then simply list them once it's ready for publication.
[01:45] <guiverc> the links are different color (blueish) & all work.
[01:46] <guiverc> another (horrid) view lower down, HUB showing how links for articles appear...
[01:46] <guiverc> https://imgur.com/4dEhAkA.png
[01:49] <krytarik> aaronprisk[m]: Yeah, I guess that'd be similar to the workflow we got on the wiki currently.  While on the latter it's already visible to everybody then, I wonder if unlisted on Discourse means that if you guess the URL minus the appended number, you also get to see it..?  Not that visibility particularly matters in either case though, just curious.
[01:50] <krytarik> guiverc: LOL XD
[01:50] <guiverc> the updates stuff at end looks okay too, listed with links working; https://imgur.com/4yawcMM.png  (posted that as reply and not original)
[01:51] <aaronprisk[m]> Correct, if someone really wants that sneak peek they have to work for it.
[01:52] <krytarik> guiverc: Uhm, so it seems that it also magically changes the link anchor text to the title at the URL's end.. :3
[01:52] <guiverc> yep; different blue hue & open with nothing done :)
[01:53] <krytarik> ..Except for the update links? :o
[01:54] <krytarik> I mean they look like actual links, just with the bare URL rather than the title.
[01:55] <guiverc> all links look good to me krytarik ;  maybe my terrible screenshots
[01:56]  * guiverc wonders why we did this today; my screenshots are showing mouse instead of bird  (menu/de)
[01:57] <guiverc> my top display (i have 3 not aligned) was the discourse..  (bottom right was mousepad)
[01:58] <guiverc> (or wallpaper & telegram for earlier screenshots)
[02:00] <krytarik> guiverc: I mean if you look at the links in the first screenshots, they all got converted from the plain URL also being the anchor text to the latter being the title of the page they lead to - but on the update lists that's not the case.
[02:01] <krytarik> Of course though, the converting is the actual issue here.
[02:02] <krytarik> Which may force us to indeed do tags stuff around the URLs then.
[02:03]  * guiverc looking
[02:04] <guiverc> Yeah I see what you mean, but not yet seeing the consequence though
[02:05] <Eickmeyer> As far as formatting, it's just a different form of markdown. Traditional markdown vs moin.
[02:05] <guiverc> I would hope we could work out to 'tweak' what we want in gdoc so copy/paste gets an almost perfect result..
[02:08]  * guiverc retesting... my final was done as a REPLY not original thread post; maybe that makes a difference
[02:13] <krytarik> guiverc, Bashing-om: Well, why not just start out on Discourse directly instead, with a template that also includes notes - and in the process of finalizing the post remove the excess and unwanted bits the same as currently on the wiki?
[02:16] <Bashing-om> krytarik: I got no heartburn using discourse as our development platform. But like before - I be monkee see monkee do. Be a process of learning the ropes.
[02:19] <krytarik> I mean currently we do all the compiling, writing, and formatting in advance in the Google Doc - and at publishing time copypaste the relevant bits from there to the wiki.  And I can see no real reason why we shouldn't start out at the target directly - and the Google Doc is visible to anybody too.
[02:19] <guiverc> I wonder if what we need is a new "News" area in discourse for it?  (community is probably closest currently on quick scan) & we can 'fudge' the current wiki.post there & work out what is required.  (official 773 remains on wiki)
[02:20] <guiverc> (it'll also confirm if ubuntu discourse has the ~32KB limit the lubuntu site has)
[02:21] <guiverc> Annoucements maybe closest existing category (not community)
[02:22] <guiverc> I'd prefer not to 'crowd' that out, which a weekly would do..
[02:23] <krytarik> Yeah, maybe we can even get a dedicated "Fridge" category! :P
[02:23] <guiverc> aaronprisk[m], a new 'News' or 'Fridge' category on discourse?   Currently I see (^) Annoucements as the best fitting category; but a weekly newsletter would 'crowd' out other key annoucements...
[02:25] <guiverc> my thinking currently is to create a UWN773 there (from our wiki.post for 773) & we can look at issues.. Myself, Bashing-om, krytarik would need access if restricted area
[02:25] <guiverc> aaronprisk[m], ^
[02:26] <krytarik> Speaking of which, why does the site currently not have a favicon? >_<
[02:27] <Eickmeyer> I see a favicon...
[02:28] <aaronprisk[m]> I think either a new Category or even a subcategory under Community would work as it's a community driven entity. Do you have a preference?
[02:28] <krytarik> I'll note that I'm not even registered with the Discourse instance yet though.
[02:28] <Bashing-om> guiverc: How about I try and revert Gdoc to 773 and we work from our Gdoc ?
[02:28] <Eickmeyer> aaronprisk[m]: Even "Flavors" are community driven, so I wouldn't want to overcrowd the Community category.
[02:29] <Eickmeyer> Technically, the entire Ubuntu project is community driven.
[02:31] <krytarik> Eickmeyer: Huh, what the heck.. loading it in a private window made it show up here too.. :o
[02:31] <Eickmeyer> krytarik: Means your caches are messed.
[02:32] <guiverc> Bashing-om, this box isn't my old core2q so maybe a little 'faster' at reverting  (sorry phone call..)
[02:32] <krytarik> Also it loads forever otherwise.
[02:32] <guiverc> aaronprisk[m], I don't have a preference..
[02:32] <aaronprisk[m]> Fair point. Top level it is. There is some additional housekeeping that needs to take place at the top level anyhow.
[02:33] <Bashing-om> guiverc: I now have 32 Gigs of ram - I have been anxious to see if now I can "work" Gdoc :D
[02:33] <guiverc> :)     More than me; feel free !
[02:34] <krytarik> I don't see any value in repopulating the Google Doc though.
[02:34] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Lemme see what happens // I make a copy before I do it.
[02:35] <guiverc> the only benefit is we can work/commuicate together  (yeah it's a slower bad version of mousepad... but we both can see & talk.. as in prep on occasion)
[02:36] <krytarik> I mean right now and in the context of trying Discourse with it.
[02:38] <guiverc> I'd use wiki.post & make global changes; '[02:39] <krytarik> Yep, that!
[02:39]  * guiverc # for major headings...
[02:53] <krytarik> Eickmeyer: Aha, figured why the difference, and as suspected it's got to do with disabled scripts (which is why I was loading the site in a private window to begin with, to possibly enable some more).. for some reason in a non-private window it tries to load scripts from 'ubuntucommunity.s3.dualstack.us-east-2.amazonaws.com' while it doesn't in a private one - which is why it wasn't slow ...
[02:53] <krytarik> ... and broken in the latter. :o
[02:54] <Eickmeyer> krytarik: ope!
[03:01] <krytarik> guiverc: And yes, the annotation and chat features is what we'd lose on switching to Discourse for the initial compiling.
[03:06] <aaronprisk[m]> I'll work on getting a 'News' category setup tomorrow morning and report back.
[03:06] <guiverc> thanks aaronprisk[m]
[03:17] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Fridge:: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 773 @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2023/02/06/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-773/ (by guiverc)
[03:20] <krytarik> Unless we can somehow get the raw post text via URL from Discourse though, then we'll have issues using the scripts that we currently use for creating the Fridge, the forums, and the microblogging posts from the base.
[03:22] <Bashing-om> krytarik: ^ that will take some time and effort :(
[03:25] <krytarik> I mean the workaround there in that case would be to copypaste the raw text from the Discourse post to a local file in the directory of the script repo and then run the slightly amended script, but obviously it wouldn't be ideal..
[03:25] <guiverc> I just realized that krytarik , everything we have works from wiki...
[03:26]  * guiverc just out from a shower, where I realized ~all scripts will need work...
[03:27] <krytarik> And if we have to add extra formatting to make the links not be converted into the titles, then it'd suck to send this out via mail too.
[03:43] <aaronprisk[m]> May be something the Discourse topic API can help with
[07:44] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Secure open source MLOps for AI/ML applications in financial services @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/secure-open-source-mlops-for-ai-ml-applications-in-financial-services
[09:14] <guiverc> uwn 773 posted to fb
[21:06] <krytarik> aaronprisk[m], guiverc, Bashing-om: Yeah, I've had success getting the raw text of a post via its thread by using the Discourse API.  Now the remaining issue is the link formatting and whether we do need to add markup around them which would make it unsuitable for sending out via mail.
[21:12] <krytarik> Another thing with regards to compiling is though that Discourse as opposed to the wiki doesn't seem to know the concept of hidden inline comments.
[21:54] <guiverc> ack krytarik
[21:57] <krytarik> guiverc: I'm also currently working on a script based on the reformat.py one for the forums, to do the same for Discourse - so you'd have it easier later to test posting on the latter.  It should be done soon.
[21:58] <guiverc> :) & thanks krytarik
[22:14] <krytarik> guiverc: https://paste.opendev.org/show/bpGHkBe3a8qXa0Goj3DI/ - this should be about it, but without taking into account the possibly needed extra formatting for links.. and if we'll have to do that, then 1.) we'd have to amend quite a few scripts, 2.) it'd make it harder for you on writing, and 3.) we can forget about sending the result out via mail.
[22:19] <guiverc> the links as they were (in what I saw with pastes on lubu.discourse) didn't worry me.. I want to understand what's there & where I click to get what i want; and I could use what I saw (ie. me in readers seat; but yes first-time readers will react differently..
[23:54] <Bashing-om> Discourse: Caught up with the log to krytarik's ammended script: https://paste.opendev.org/show/bpGHkBe3a8qXa0Goj3DI/ . Waiting to see what I can do further.
[23:54]  * guiverc is holding for discourse permission
[23:57] <guiverc> ie.  i was thinking we'd 'massage' latest issue on discourse; then diff what was required (for discourse) to original (wiki source)...   My thinking was all edits being done locally (editor) & pasted ; using preview window for most stuff, but we'll need to post for comments
[23:59] <guiverc> (comments; as in not person doing the text entry who can see preview)


[06:50] <lordievader> Good morning
[10:45] <Neo4> I need a list of needed apps for frash ubuntu installation
[10:46] <Neo4> I'm going to reinstall ubuntu and next time don't want to do installation manually.
[10:47] <Neo4> installation over ubuntu software takes long time, it's not efficient :)
[10:47] <Neo4> much better over shell script
[10:58] <Neo4> I did this script and reinstall ubuntu, want to remove dualap and put home to separated disk ,now it together with OS
[10:59] <RoyK> dpkg --get-selections > pkglist.txt
[10:59] <RoyK> then dpkg --set-selections < pkglist.txt on the new machine
[11:00] <RoyK> then apt-get install -f # IIRC
[11:00] <RoyK> obviously you'll have to store the file somewhere safe during reinstallation
[11:02] <Neo4> and need put to .vimrc and .bashrc your own settings too
[11:02] <Neo4> this automatization has many details
[11:02] <RoyK> Neo4: better use ansible
[11:03] <RoyK> then you have it for later too
[11:03] <Neo4> RoyK: no, this is easy echo "needed setting" tee -a $HOME/.vimrc
[11:03] <RoyK> it's easier to use ansible with "blockinfile" to do that stuff
[11:03] <RoyK> or lineinfile
[11:04] <RoyK> ansible is really neat
[11:04] <RoyK> I've used to roll out some 20 raspberry pi machines as infoscreens
[11:04] <Neo4> RoyK: I will have two separated scripts one for desktop, desktop_install and one for vps vps_install? or might better put all in one? This will bloated menu
[11:20] <lordievader> Or use puppet, or some other automation tool. Anything is better than a bunch of scripts.
[12:47] <RoyK> lordievader: not to start a holy war, but I prefer ansible :)
[12:48] <lordievader> Never tried ansible. puppet+foreman works here.
[12:52] <blackflow> SaltStack ftw! ;)
[12:53] <blackflow> The attraction of ansible is that it's very simple, no need to install nodes/minions/clients, works over ssh and is simplistic enough even for managing a single host with some declarative config.
[12:57] <RoyK> that's probably why I like ansible ;)
[13:00] <ikonia> it struggles with windows though
[13:00] <ikonia> winrm....wow
[13:01] <ikonia> blackflow: do you have a large saltstack deployment estate ?
[13:01] <ikonia> I'm yet to really get experience on a large scale salt deployment so I"m a bit on the fence about it
[13:01] <blackflow> ikonia: nah, a dozen or so servers.
[13:02] <ikonia> yeah, I'd like to see the "few hundred" scale minimum
[13:02] <blackflow> ikonia: but eh, the only reason we're using saltstack and not ansible, is the "reactor" functionality, where nodes can trigger events on other nodes.
[13:02] <ikonia> blackflow: thats one of the things I'd like to see at scale for dynamic cloud type operations
[13:02] <blackflow> otherwise for such a small deployment we'd probably have stayed on ansible.
[13:03] <blackflow> ikonia: from what I've read and heard, it scales well.
[13:03] <ikonia> hands on understanding though is priceless
[13:03] <blackflow> oh definitely.
[16:31] <sonu_nk> hi i am facing this issue on linode "Network Helper did not run: could not determine distribution or distribution version   " suddenly all stopped...
[16:58] <ikonia> sonu_nk: what distro are you running ?
[17:07] <sonu_nk> centos 7
[17:07] <ikonia> sonu_nk: then why are you asking in an ubuntu channel
[17:08] <sonu_nk> i am asking if anyone knows this error "Network Helper did not run: could not determine distribution or distribution version"
[17:08] <ikonia> this channel supports ubuntu
[17:08] <ikonia> not centos problems


[20:26] <sebsebseb> since the old version is :)    it seems when I do 10.04 on there I will end up using KDM instead
[20:27] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: Maybe you haven't been following me so far since your new, there are differnet log in screens
[20:27] <sebsebseb> Desktop Linux is all about choice,  choice for nearly every type of program you can think of
[20:28] <rainbow007> sebsebseb:thanks for the advise. at least that would help me.i know what you mean, thanks a lot.
[20:28] <rainbow007> vitamin-carrot:thanks a lot for trying to help me
[20:29] <vitamin-carrot> rainbow007: thats cool dude ... ive only been using ubuntu since gutsy
[20:29] <sebsebseb> vitamin-carrot: second release in 2005 for me, with Fedora Core 2 and 4 before it,  started using Desktop Linux in 2004
[20:29] <vitamin-carrot> rainbow007: im so novice i forgot that vbox only runs 32bit OS's
[20:30] <vitamin-carrot> lol
[20:30] <rainbow007> thanks a guys. its my first chat in this forum and you people or awesome.
[20:30] <sebsebseb> FC2  the one I just installed,  Knoppix, Gnooppix, and Morphix Live CD's later on etc
[20:31] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: Newer is not always better!   With  Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu  it's not about what is the latest version, it's about what is still supported by security updates.
[20:32] <vitamin-carrot> vmware workstation allows 64bit OS's yes?
[20:32] <rainbow007> sebsebseb:i will download 9.04 and install it.thanks a lot mate.i'm really pleased for the response.
[20:32] <sebsebseb> sometimes a new version of a program isn't  good for a particular user,  GDM 2  for example when it comes to me.
[20:32] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: I didn't say to put 9.04 on as your host
[20:32] <sebsebseb> I just said you might want to try it in a vm
[20:33] <sebsebseb> also if you install Kubuntu rather than Ubuntu,  you will get KDM   not GDM 2 by default :)
[20:33] <rainbow007> sebsebseb:i'm going to try it in a vm. what is the best one?
[20:33] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: then if  you want Ubuntu/Gnome as well you can install it, and it will probably  say that Ubuntu is loading up and shutting down rather than Kubuntu, but that can also be changed
[20:33] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: The best Ubuntu you mean?
[20:34] <rainbow007> yes
[20:35] <rainbow007> sebsebseb: if i install kubuntu, can i switch between ubuntu gdm and kde
[20:35] <sebsebseb> ok let's make sure you understand this first what a release is, that's the number.   9.10 is the latest.   Then there are differnet versions of that,  Ubuntu, Kubuntu,  Xubuntu   and differnet versions of that even  Desktop version, server version etc.
[20:35] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: GDM and KDM all they are is log in screens basicalley
[20:36] <sebsebseb> your meant to be able to boot up Ubuntu or Kubuntu or Xubuntu for example, with them as long as they are installed
[20:36] <rainbow007> sebsebseb:will there be options on the left hand cornor, so that i can choose
[20:37] <sebsebseb> some log in screen's are better  than others depending on a user and what they want,  just like  for some users Ubuntu is better than Kubuntu or  Kubuntu is better than  Ubuntu, depending on the user and what they want
[20:37] <sebsebseb> !best
[20:37] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: yes on KDM there is
[20:37] <vitamin-carrot> brb installing kubuntu on the missus's machine
[20:37] <sebsebseb> with Ubuntu 9.04  on the old GDM there is,   as for GDM  2 it's a bit differnet
[20:39] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: I like the old GDM and not GDM 2, so I'll use KDM now.   In my opinion  KDM is now much better than  GDM 2.   At the end of  the day it doesn't really matter which one you use, as long as you can load up what you want to load from it,  Ubuntu or Kubuntu or Xubuntu or whatever you got installed
[20:39] <rainbow007> sebsebseb: how do you change the option to boot to different derivatives(xubuntu,ubuntu,kubuntu)
[20:40] <sebsebseb> the log in screen is meant to let you do that, once you have them installed
[20:40] <PAR> Hi all, using kubuntu, trying to write a rule to run 'xmodmap' when I insert a usb mouse.  Currently I've got the rule calling a shell script, but xmodmap doesn't seem to be executing.  Prob doing something stupid.. any thoughts or a better place to ask?
[20:40] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: personalley  I like  KDE 3 which you can't just have in 9.10,   one reason I will virtual machine the 9.10 version
[20:41] <rainbow007> sebsebseb:so logging into the different derivatives gives different user  experience? interms of look and feel , programs/applications e.t.c?
[20:41] <sebsebseb> KDE 3 is an older version of  KDE  that has been used for years,  KDE 4 which is used in Kubuntu 9.10 is pretty new really,   as I said before  Desktop Linux is very much about choice
[20:42] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: basicalley yeah
[20:42] <sebsebseb> Gnome and KDE are the two most popular desktop environments  with XFCE in third place
[20:43] <rainbow007> what version of kubuntu is good to test on vm?
[20:43] <sebsebseb> so that's  the way it looks,  and  quite a lot of programs as well,   then there are also  window managers which are just a graphical user interface such as  Fluxbox for example
[20:43] <sebsebseb> if you have  differnet ones installed onot the same install,  your meant to select them from the log in screen, and decide which one to use
[20:45] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: Most Linux distros  Linux distributions http://www.distrowatch.com that many people use today, will run  Gnome or KDE by default
[20:46] <sebsebseb> I suggested earlier to vm  Kubuntu  9.10  since  your doing vm's anyway,  so  you have then tried both  Ubuntu and Kubuntu 9.10
[20:46] <rainbow007> sebsebseb:good.very good explanation mate.which version of kubuntu you like for testing, so that one can choose all 3 of them installed and tested by logging into them different one's
[20:46] <sebsebseb> Then really ideally  I think you should probably pick one to install  onto your computer for real onto the hard disk.   Then if you want to use the other you can install that as well yes.
[20:47] <sebsebseb> I don't like  KDE 4  personalley as a desktop envrionement GUI and all that
[20:47] <rainbow007> sebsebseb:would kubuntu 9.10 allow me to switch between all 3 derivatives (ubuntu,xbuntu and kbuntu)
[20:47] <sebsebseb> I do however like some  of the KDE apps the Konversation IRC client for example, which I run inside Gnome
[20:47] <sebsebseb> it used to be the KDE 3 version, but now it's the KDE 4 version
[20:48] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: if they are installed yes, but that's a bit like dual booting switching to another one from the log in screen, so that's a bit sucky realy
[20:49] <sebsebseb> What I personalley  would do is this,  put on a distro that  I am happy enough  to have as my host OS,   Ubuntu 9.10 for example,  and then virtual machine anything else that I want to do,   Kubuntu  KDE 3 version,  Windows even
[20:49] <sebsebseb> and well  you know vm's it's basically running two or more OS's at once,  or  in this case desktop environments if for example you run  KDE inside  Gnome,  or  Gnome inside KDE
[20:50] <rainbow007> sebsebseb:thats a great help.i don't really do that in rpoduction .but for testing and more over learning wi need to do.
[20:51] <vitamin-carrot> and all with no risk to the host
[20:51] <sebsebseb> yep
[20:52] <rainbow007> this help is more than microsoft's technical support team. i'm really pleased guys
[20:52] <vitamin-carrot> lol just waiting for the install to finish on the gf's machine
[20:52] <vitamin-carrot> shes all excited and stuff
[20:52] <sebsebseb> rainbow007: well there is a Windows channel on this network as well
[20:52] <sebsebseb> ,but not run by Microsoft
[20:52] <rainbow007> ohhh.great to know
[20:53] <sebsebseb> ,but yes  Ubuntu and Kubuntu have a lot of good community support
[20:53] <rainbow007> once again thanks a lot guys. good bye
[20:53] <sebsebseb> ok no problem
[20:53] <sebsebseb> hopefuly your running a proper install soon
[20:54] <sebsebseb> installed onto your hard disk
[20:54] <sebsebseb> :)
[20:54] <rainbow007> definitely.i will rung kubuntu as host and the vista or windows 7.0 as vm.
[20:54] <vitamin-carrot> best of luck rainbow007
[20:54] <rainbow007> does it support windows 7.0
[20:55] <rainbow007> as vm
[20:55] <rainbow007> vitamin-carrot:thanks mate
[20:55] <rainbow007> sebsebseb:can i run windows 7 as a vm on kubuntu
[20:56] <vitamin-carrot> if you have vmworkstatioon i dont see why not
[20:57]  * vitamin-carrot picks his nose
[20:57] <rainbow007> vitamin-carrot:thanks a lot.
[20:57] <rainbow007> good bye. have a nice day guys
[21:02] <harmankaya> selam
[21:02] <harmankaya> :S
[21:02] <harmankaya> hi (:
[21:03] <harmankaya> #ubuntu-tr
[21:03] <harmankaya> join #ubuntu-tr
[21:03] <harmankaya> :S
[21:04] <apparle> harmankaya: if you are trying to join #ubuntu-tr and use '/joing #ubuntu-tr'
[21:05] <yofel> or rather '/join #ubuntu-tr' ^^
[21:05] <ericG> anyone know if its possible to use the new ubuntu software center in kubuntu?
[21:06] <yofel> ericG: install the 'software-center' package
[21:06] <FastElbow> "/j #whatever"is enough
[21:06] <ericG> yofel:  do you know if there are any issues with using it kubuntu?
[21:07] <yofel> ericG: none that I know of
[21:07] <ericG> thanks yofel
[21:10] <avihay__> doesn't work for me
[21:15] <manase> hi
[21:18] <vitamin-carrot> right im off gotta play some unreal tounament 3
[21:18] <vitamin-carrot> cya
[21:30] <vanessa> ,fg
[21:56] <saxofun> hi all
[21:57] <saxofun> I've the problem that I have no sound in firefox 3.5.4 when I play flash videos. Any ideas?
[22:09] <drostie> Is there anything useful I can do to diagnose kcryptd? Like, "why are you running on my system?" etc. ?
[22:10] <drostie> oh, nevermind. Apparently kcryptd isn't kde-related. o_O
[22:12] <The_Journey> How do I install a left handed cursor pointing to the right in kubuntu?
[22:21] <luis_> hello i wanna build my own HTPC using mithTV, can someone tell me what i need and what  i have to do? i got a sony bravia 42 so i wanna get to its max while using a ps3 also
[22:22] <estrato> hi i whant to learn to use this can some one explain me plx oO?
[22:24] <yofel> estrato: ?
[22:25] <estrato> yes
[22:25] <estrato> xD?
[22:25] <estrato> yofel ?
[22:29] <ayoze> olaa
[22:30] <ayoze> algun español?
[22:30] <ayoze> algun español?
[22:31] <ayoze> olaa
[22:31] <jamesjedimaster> !es | ayoze
[22:32] <ayoze> y como entro ahi?
[22:33] <Traveler> hola
[22:33] <Guest96379> hello
[22:33] <Guest96379> hello all
[22:34] <yofel> !hi
[22:34] <estrato> !hi
[22:35] <estrato> #kubuntu
[22:36] <Guest96379> a question
[22:36] <Guest96379> kubuntu have support for hp 2133 (mininote)
[22:39] <Guest96379> who speaked spanish
[22:39] <yofel> !es
[22:40] <Guest96379> gracias
[22:40] <Guest96379> thank you
[22:40] <yofel> !me
[22:41] <yofel> ;)
[22:41] <alximik> "Cannot get the exclusive lock on the packaging backend.
[22:41] <alximik> Please close any other legacy packaging tools that may be open."
[22:41] <alximik> what can i do with it?
[22:42] <yofel> alximik: a) what application tells you that? b) do you have apt-get, aptitude, synaptic, ... open?
[22:43] <buketbarazi> tyt
[22:43] <yofel> it means that you are trying to install/remove a package and another application already has locked the package database
[22:44] <lovre> what is the best alternative for Fireworks on linux?
[22:44] <yofel> alximik: if you can't find the application that's  causing the lock see
[22:44] <yofel> !aptlock | alximik
[22:44] <alximik> yofel: any application, i have just installed kubuntu and i can install nothing
[22:45] <yofel> alximik: tried what ubottu told you?
[22:51] <alximik> yofel: yes, but i cant understand if updates was installed
[22:52] <yofel> alximik: run 'sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade' to check if you have all updates installed
[22:52] <yofel> or check in kpackagekit if you have any
[22:53] <alximik> yofel: now i can see updates downloading... i believe it will wirk!
[22:53] <alximik> *work
[22:54] <yofel> :)
[22:55] <alximik> yofel: can you explain (for noobs =)) what was the reason?
[22:56] <yofel> alximik: not sure, but I guess at some point the application that was installing something (updates?) crashed and left /var/lib/dpkg/lock behind
[22:57] <yofel> that file tells other applications that they must not access the package database or it'll be corrupted
[22:57] <yofel> so you had to remove the file by hand
[22:57] <wojtek> Hi
[23:00] <alximik> yofel: thanks you!!!
[23:00] <jwx> hey! why is grub beta in 9.10?
[23:02] <adaptr> grub 2.0
[23:03] <jwx> adaptr: it's 1.97~beta4 here.. maybe i did something wrong then
[23:04] <adaptr> dunno
[23:04] <jwx> do you have 2.0?
[23:04] <adaptr> rlogin.dk
[23:04] <adaptr> bah
[23:04] <adaptr> ii  grub                                      0.97-29ubuntu59                           GRand Unified Bootloader
[23:06] <jwx> right.. so one can downgrade without issues?
[23:06] <adaptr> downgrade to what ?
[23:07] <jwx> grub 1.97 to 0.97 ?
[23:08] <adaptr> you really have 1.97 ? look again...
[23:09] <yofel> adaptr: karmic uses grub2 by default
[23:10] <yofel> jwx: for 0.97 remove grub-pc and install grub
[23:10] <yofel> it *should* work
[23:10] <yofel> I never tested it
[23:10] <adaptr> yofel: it doesn't upgrade during the dist-upgrade, then ?
[23:10] <adaptr> because it didn't
[23:10] <yofel> adaptr: there was some discussion about that, I don't know how it works right now, iirc it dosn't upgrade
[23:11] <adaptr> yofel: it has not upgraded for me
[23:12] <jwx> grub-install -v says grub-install (GNU GRUB 1.97~beta4).. well it's working so maybe I shouldnt change =P
[23:13] <yofel> jwx: do you have any issues with grub2?
[23:13] <yofel> and 1.97~beta4 is the official version in karmic
[23:13] <jwx> yofel: no just thought it was funny first thing shown when booting a new release was the text beta.. haven't had any problems with it
[23:13] <yofel> (the devs want it tested in real life before the lucid LTS...)
[23:13] <jwx> ah ok
[23:14] <adaptr> lucid whatbeast ?
[23:14] <adaptr> llama ?
[23:14] <yofel> !lts
[23:14] <adaptr> pity
[23:25] <BluesKaj> lucid lunatic ftw!
[23:27] <BluesKaj> lucid lynx doesn't inspire me
[23:27] <Guest70707> I'm not getting any temperatures from my plasma things
[23:27] <Guest70707> do I need to install a package so it recognises my cpu?
[23:28] <LjL> possibly "lm-sensors" (and run "sudo sensors-detect")
[23:31] <BluesKaj> Guest70707, if not then open widgets and choose System Monitor - Temperature
[23:38] <wickywooster> hello
[23:42] <Guest70707> nope.... sensors-detect says no sensors were detected
[23:42] <Guest70707> odd
[23:49] <ultma2> I need help, I'm getting no sound form amorak when I try to play an mp3 file, but there is sound from videos on youtube
[23:49] <korvin_> did you install codec?
[23:50] <ultma2> korvin_: how?
[23:50] <korvin_> sudo apt-get install kubuntu-restricted-extras


[19:49] <thomi> Hi pleia2, are you responsible for maintaining help.ubuntu.com? I'm seeing frequent HTTP 500 responses, as well as occaisonal very long load times for certain pages. I'm wondering if this is a known issue?
[19:50] <pleia2> thomi: Canonical IS over in #canonical-sysadmin handles the actual hosting of these servers, and yes, it's been a known issue for some time
[19:51] <thomi> pleia2: are IS responsible for the code maintenance, or just the hosting?
[19:51] <pleia2> unfortunately the moinmoin wiki software doesn't seem to haev been built for the scale we're using it at
[19:51] <thomi> ahhh, ok
[19:51] <pleia2> thomi: code maintenance?
[19:51] <thomi> well... "fixing the bugs" :D
[19:51] <pleia2> all we do here in ubuntu-doc is work on the actual documentation :) Canonical IS manages the software and servers
[19:51] <thomi> ahh, ok - thanks
[19:51] <pleia2> and I have a meeting to run off to now, bbl
[19:52] <thomi> I'll head back to IS who sent me here in the first place :D
[19:52] <thomi> thanks for your help!


[07:39] <Saviq> Bonjour o/
[07:59] <alan_g[m]> \o Goedemorgen
[08:45] <sophie-w> * in CI (deadlock). Can't
[11:53] <alan_g[m]> I just tried VT switching with #2711 and Miriway crashes reliably - I've not had that before. I wonder what's changed...
[12:55] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths opened [pull request #2712](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2712): Fix VT switching
[12:55] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server-
[12:55] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- > By reverting the commit that broke it
[12:59] <alan_g[m]> Saviq , sophie ^ I don't know why, but that's what changed (and I've been using mir-team/rc which misses that commit
[13:05] <sophie-w> Not too surprising that that PR could have done it. That PR wasn't fixing any problem in particlar, so I'm not very motivated to fix and re-merge it. If clients getting a bunch of global remove events before their connection is closed ever becomes a problem we can do that.
[13:20] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq closed [pull request #2711](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2711): Implement wp_primary_selection_unstable_v1
[13:20] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq reopened [pull request #2711](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2711): Implement wp_primary_selection_unstable_v1
[14:22] <Saviq> Hum. Bors looks stuck.
[14:23] <alan_g[m]> Just taking its time? Or broken?
[14:27] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq opened [issue #2713](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2713): Forgive incorrect `add-wayland-extension`... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/37c45ccf541e91a34ddf553d77f5a701f5ea3d78>)
[14:27] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq edited [issue #2713](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2713): Forgive incorrect `add-wayland-extensions`
 "Just taking its time? Or broken?" <- Was on lunch, it seems. Back now.
[14:50] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2646](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2646): Expose wait features
[14:50] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] closed [issue #2543](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2543): miral does not expose wait features based on MainLoop
[14:51] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** Eldho1416 opened [issue #92](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/92): ubuntu frame daemon fails... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/a7812e80d00eedb52dce29f6a255d18f36a9ec5a>)
[15:40] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** graysonguarino marked [pull request #89](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/pull/89): Add Frame Diagnostic delay as ready for review
[15:42] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq assigned  to [pull request #2712](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2712): Fix VT switching
[15:46] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2712](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2712): Fix VT switching
[15:55] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths closed [issue #2701](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2701): Mir crashes when wayvnc connection opened while Mir is on a non-active TTY
[16:06] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** Saviq closed [issue #47](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/47): Virtualbox support
[16:07] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** Saviq closed [issue #34](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/34): Locks up system if user TTY switches while frame is stopping
[16:12] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** Saviq opened [issue #93](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/93): `--diagnostic-path` required absolute... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/815b5de3e0198d2b9ddc11d785fc5b8d7f3e824d>)
[16:14] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** Saviq added bug to [issue #93](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/93): `--diagnostic-path` required absolute
[16:24] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** Saviq opened [issue #94](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/94): `--diagnostic-path` crashes when existing on start, but removed... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/eb85060eabec44e911dda43b53d9f4f063de84b3>)
[16:25] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** AlanGriffiths edited [issue #93](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/93): `--diagnostic-path` needs to include directory
[16:25] <Saviq> Found some work 👆 ;)
[16:27] <Saviq> Guten abend o/
[16:58] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** Eldho1416 closed [issue #92](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/92): ubuntu frame daemon fails
[17:01] <alan_g[m]> Goedenavond o/


[08:58] <lordievader> Good morning.
[11:12] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:10] <lordievader> BluesKaj: As 14.10 does not have sysd, I continue here: sounds like your kernel doesn't have cgroup support.
[13:25] <BluesKaj> lordievader, an upgrade must have installed systemd, because I sure didn't or my memory is failing me .. it' shows as installed in muon
[13:30] <lordievader> BluesKaj: Yes, 15.04 has systemd capability
[13:30] <BluesKaj> lordievader, I'm talking about 14.10 on this old desktop
[13:31] <lordievader> Hmm, I thought you where on 15.04, don't think 14.10 supports systemd.
[13:33] <BluesKaj> then why is it installed on 14.10 and if I try to remove or purge, it will take most of kde with it
[13:34] <lordievader> Let's move this back to #kubuntu, as I said, I thought you were on 15.04.
[14:59] <BluesKaj_> what's the archive/repos for the 3.18 kernel in vivid?  15.04 is hung up on not finding the archive for the 3.18 kernel
[14:59] <lordievader> !info linux-image-generic
[15:00] <k1l> kernels are in main
[15:06] <BluesKaj_> odd, main is listed, but apt isn't seeing it
[15:06] <k1l> o_O
[15:35] <BluesKaj_> !linux-headers
[15:35] <BluesKaj_> !linux-kernel
[15:42] <BluesKaj_> !info linux-image
[15:43] <BluesKaj_> !info linux-image-generic
[16:09] <lordievader> BluesKaj: You do have a kernel installed, right?
[18:55] <not_roasted> hi
[18:56] <not_roasted> is it acceptable to ask unity 8 oriented questions here or is there another channell for that
[18:58] <bubbasaures> not_roasted, 15.04 related is the channel, not an area I know is all, hope that helps. unity 8 is part of the development.
[18:58] <not_roasted> bubbasaures: what I'm looking for is kind of simple. I just want to spin up the latest unity 8 to just check things out. I wasn't sure if that means installing 15.04 or if there's a specific ISO anymore (I can't seem to find ubuntu next ISO??)
[19:00] <bubbasaures> not_roasted, I believe not sure unity 8 can be installed even in supported like 14.10, 15.04 has to be installed I think, not sure of a specific iso, but you could run one live and install unity 8.
[19:00] <bubbasaures> not_roasted, I'm not your best help in this, I wish I knew more. ;)
[19:00] <not_roasted> yeah I'm fine with 15.04. Whatever is most logical to check out the latest unity 8 builds. It's a test machine so I can destroy it without harm.
[19:01] <bubbasaures> excellent that is the way to run
[19:01] <not_roasted> I tried 15.04 and installed unity 8 about two weeks ago, but it wouldn't even open. I got to wondering if what I was doing was *the* way to check out unity 8 and it just needs more work or if I needed a different ISO of some sort.
[19:02] <not_roasted> unity 7 is wearing on me in a few areas so I just wanted to check if what the potential "light at the end of the tunnel" would bring. :P
[19:03] <bubbasaures> would be nice to know I suppose
[20:13] <retroispresto> Hey~
[22:40] <schultza> How do I know if my system is running ubuntu+1 ?
[22:40] <elfy> ummm
[22:40] <k1l_> schultza: "lsb_release -d"
[22:41] <schultza> 14.10
[22:41] <schultza> so my 'sudo do-relase-upgrade -d' didnt work?
[22:41] <k1l_> what sources are in "cat /etc/apt/sources.list"?
[22:42] <schultza> Here. <http://paste.ubuntu.com/9752475/>
[22:42] <elfy> that's utopic
[22:42] <schultza> Do I need to run that command again?
[22:43] <schultza> to get to ubuntu+1 ?
[22:43] <k1l_> schultza: ok, that is 15.04. so there is just no updated lsb package yet in 15.04
[22:43] <k1l_> schultza: a "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" makes sure you got all new packages
[22:45] <schultza> 22 more upgrades...
[23:02] <elfy> schultza: if there's a kernel upgrade to  3.18.0-9 I'd say you're on the way
[23:02] <schultza> That cleared out of my buffer. I'm seeing something else here... hang one min.
[23:04] <schultza> This came across as a little odd. <http://paste.ubuntu.com/9752574/> I updated and did the dist-upgrade again, and it shows the same message: libinput0 needs to be autoremoved.
[23:05] <schultza> and apparently I dont see that kernel in my /boot area.
[23:11] <schultza> oh... maybe i had to do it again. i WAS on 14.04 the first time i did the 'do-release-upgrade -d' command.
[23:11] <k1l_> schultza: :/
[23:11] <schultza> I think I will do that tomorrow. Thanks.
[23:11] <k1l_> you need the -d trigger to get from 14.10 to 15.04.
[23:13] <k1l_> sorry i miss interpreted your pastebin. it says utopic so you are on 14.10. you of course need the do-release-upgrade -d     to get to 15.04 now
[23:13] <schultza> i did from the 14.04
[23:13] <k1l_> there is no upgrade from 14.04 to 15.05.
[23:14] <schultza> so it stopped in 14.10.. now i cant do it again... something about a network error
[23:14] <k1l_> you need the step with 14.04 - 14.10 to 15.04

[23:14] <k1l_> there is no extra repo for 15.04 so far. that should not be a problem
[23:15] <schultza> but it stopped my do-release-update
[23:17] <schultza> Do I need to disable Extras?
[23:18] <elfy> yes
[23:18] <elfy> it's just fail
[23:19] <elfy> really annoying - there's talk of ditching that extras repo now thankfully
[23:19] <k1l_> well, its a alpha
[23:19] <k1l_> if you want fully working stable stuff use the released versions :)
[23:20] <k1l_> most PPAs will not work anyway, too
[23:22] <schultza> Yes, those PPAs are not building against the current vivid code anyways, so I know why those are failing.
[23:23] <schultza> Guess I should run vivid in a VM or on an older computer.
[23:31] <elfy> what I tend to do with ppas is edit them - and change the source from 'dev' to released version then see what happens
[23:32] <elfy> you are testing - test some 'guy's' ppa and let them know


[06:54] <juergh> thunder, the focal HWE kernel will move to 5.15 eventually.
[06:58] <thunder> nice. thanks for the headsup!
[07:07] <tjaalton> Eickmeyer: I don't know, but looks like it has never passed and was marked as failing on the kernel test matrix
[09:08] <enyc> juergh: funny you should say that I was wondrering EXACTLY that in another channel =)
[09:08] <enyc> i.e. -> I imagine linux 5.15 will become the HWE kernel for 20.04 , but maybe only after 22.04 lts released [?]
[09:09] <enyc> I (thought) hwe kernel andp oint release etc  tended to come after respective upstream release done [??]
[09:38] <Nafallo> LTS + 1st point-release will use the GA kernel, 2st pointrelease LTS+1, 3rd pointrelease LTS+2, 4th pointrelease LTS+3, 5th pointrelease LTS+4 (which is the LTS after).
[09:40] <Nafallo> so 20.04 and 20.04.1 - no HWE, 20.04.2 with 20.10, 20.04.3 with 21.04, 20.04.4 with 21.10, 20.04.5 with 22.04
[10:05] <apw> though 20.04 and 20.04.1 are using the GA kernel, they are setup to roll to the HWE kernel later, so they behave semantically the same as .2 and later.
[10:07] <Jeremy31> 5.15 should be available in July, before 5.13 is EOL
[10:09] <Jeremy31> Likely sooner than July for linux-generic-hwe-20.04-edge
[11:49] <apw> Jeremy31, already so: linux-generic-hwe-20.04-edge | <IP_ADDRESS>.18~20.04.3   | focal-proposed  | amd64, arm64, armhf, ppc64el, s390x
[12:41] <Jeremy31> apw: good, I am working with an unsupported wifi card, works with mt7921e module but can't change the tx power from 3 dBm


[01:21] <psusi> can you connect a glib signal directly to a dbus signal, or do you have to set up a proxy object and a callback function to raise the signal in the gobject when the dbus object signals?
[03:58] <c2tarun> bug 216301 shows that fix is released in debian, but rmadison is not detecting elog into debian.
[03:58] <c2tarun> why so?
[04:19] <micahg> c2tarun: it was removed from debian almost 3 years ago
[04:19] <Mase_wk> heh
[04:20] <c2tarun> micahg: can you tell me some security bugs on which I can work on?
[04:21] <micahg> c2tarun: anything here: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/universe
[04:42] <c2tarun> micahg: I need a bit help on this, are you free for a moment?
[04:42] <micahg> c2tarun: in a bit, working on something ATM
[04:43] <c2tarun> micahg: sure :) can you please ping me when you are free I am waiting
[05:05] <micahg> c2tarun: go ahead
[05:06] <c2tarun> micahg: I want to work on some security bugs, but dont know how to start, I read the manual pages and found that there are some CVE issues which raise the security threat in bugs, My question is how can I start working on a security bug?
[05:07] <micahg> c2tarun: pick a package, pick a release, try to find the patches for the CVEs and create a debdiff
[05:08] <c2tarun> micahg: suppose I pick a this package http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sql-ledger.html , how can i look for the patch?
[05:10] <micahg> c2tarun: each CVE should list an upstream bug and/or an upstream commit, find the upstream commit and/or a patch with the fix in Debian and prepare a debdiff with the fixes for Ubuntu with a changelog like here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation
[05:11] <micahg> c2tarun: I can't walk through a lot of stuff tonight, maybe another night, you can also ask in #ubuntu-hardened for security stuff
[05:12] <c2tarun> micahg: thanks :)
[05:42] <c2tarun> micahg: I failed to find any patch or upstream commit for the package I selected, may b I dont know where to, can you please help.
[05:43] <micahg> c2tarun: try another package would be my suggestion ATM
[05:45] <c2tarun> micahg: I tried this one also http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/flatnuke.html but failed to find
[05:45]  * micahg never heard of these packages
[05:46] <micahg> c2tarun: you want to try phpmyadmin lucid?
[05:47] <micahg> it's kinda crazy for a first time though
[05:47] <c2tarun> micahg: oh... there is a patch :)
[05:47] <micahg> c2tarun: there are lots of patches :)
[05:48]  * micahg has about 20 sitting on his machine waiting to make a debdiff...
[05:48] <c2tarun> micahg: all 20 are from that same canonica CVE bug tracker?
[05:49] <micahg> c2tarun: no, those 20 are from 1 upstream advisory
[05:49] <micahg> c2tarun: yes, they're all listed on teh CVE tracker
[05:49] <micahg> there are about 8 advisories w/patches, some of the patches are in the maverick package
[05:50] <c2tarun> micahg: in that phpmyadmin whenever I am opening any patch I am getting XML parsing error
[05:50] <micahg> c2tarun: someone else will have to help here, I can't do this tonight
[05:51] <c2tarun> ok, so should I ask in ubuntu-hardened?
[05:52] <micahg> c2tarun: sure
[05:52] <c2tarun> micahg: thanks for help :)
[08:17] <geser> c2tarun: you pinged me yesterday, is the question resolved?
[08:22] <c2tarun> geser: yup :) thanks for replying
[08:33] <dholbach> good morning
[08:49] <geser> good morning dholbach
[08:50] <dholbach> hi geser
[09:31] <iulian> Morning dholbach, geser.
[09:32] <dholbach> hey iulian
[09:33] <iulian> How's it going?
[09:54] <dholbach> iulian, good good - how are you?
[09:59] <iulian> dholbach: Not bad, I'm trying to wake myself up.  I've just had a couple of hours of sleep last night.
[09:59] <dholbach> good luck with that :)
[09:59] <iulian> Heh. :)
[10:05] <jfi> Hello, if someone at the time to sponsor it, bug 731832 is trivial and I have attached a debdiff for the fix. Anyway, that's a low importance one.
[10:56] <geser> jfi: I see that the Ubuntu task is "Fix committed". Where was it committed?
[10:58] <jfi> geser, yes, it appears that somebody has commited a fix, but I don't have enough knowledge of launchpad to know where exactly it has been comited. Anyway it seems that the project is using bzr for the code.
[10:59] <geser> jfi: please also add "(LP: #731832)" to your debian/changelog entry to auto-close the bug upon upload (the brackets are optional)
[11:00] <jfi> geser: you mean for the debdiff that I have attached to the bug report?
[11:01] <geser> jfi: yes (generally speaking)
[11:02] <jfi> geser: ok, I am going to upload a new debdiff, thanks for the information.
[11:02] <geser> I'll ask seb128 (who set the bug to Fix Committed) about the current status
[11:06] <geser> jfi: your patch will get uploaded as part of the weekly dx updates tomorrow, so nothing has to be done on your part anymore (just wait :) )
[11:07] <jfi> geser, nice! thanks!
[11:10] <geser> jfi: for your next fix: if you want attention from sponsors subscribe "ubuntu-sponsors" to the bug you want sponsored (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess)
[11:13] <jfi> geser, ok
[16:07] <micahg> \sh: did you see the security advisory for zf
[16:24] <c2tarun> I am trying to link bug 732064 with debian bug 617529 but getting error. Can anyone please help?
[16:27] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: what error do you get?
[16:27] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: There is no project in Launchpad named "http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=617529". Please search for it as it may be registered with a different name.
[16:28] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: you have to click on 'Also affects Distribution' then select debian from the drop-down list.
[16:31] <\sh> micahg: yes
[16:31] <micahg> \sh: are you preparing updates?
[16:33] <\sh> micahg: you mean security updates? when I find the time, sure, but regarding my actual work I think I have to find someone who is doing the security updates
[16:34] <micahg> \sh: I was referring to debdiffs for any previous releases that might need them :)
[16:39] <\sh> micahg: yeah, that means security updates :) I don't know when I have the time for it to extract the patch and provide debdiffs (via security pocket)
[16:40] <micahg> \sh: ok, idk when I'll have time either
[17:48] <kklimonda> debfx: is the current Gtk+ view in Qt the best we can get?
[17:49] <geser> does somebody know if a sync request with a binary package rename needs a FFe?
[17:49] <kklimonda> debfx: "current Gtk+ look & feel" event
[17:49] <kklimonda> even*
[18:03] <bdrung> tumbleweed: do you got the debian-devel mail about "new scripts and patches for devscripts". would you volunteer to maintain the python scripts if they moved from u-d-t to devscripts?
[18:04] <c2tarun> can anyone help me with this error http://paste.kde.org/6936/ I was trying to pull a source code.
[18:05] <geser> c2tarun: can you please paste the ownership and permissions of /home/tarun/.launchpadlib?
[18:06] <c2tarun> geser: there is no such file
[18:07] <tumbleweed> bdrung: just read it
[18:09] <tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah I'd help maintain them
[18:09] <c2tarun> geser: very sorry I thought it was a file and not a folder, drwx------  3 root  root   4096 Mar  9 09:10 .launchpadlib here is the permissions
[18:10] <bdrung> tumbleweed: thx, i'll respond to the mailing list later today offering us two to maintain the python scripts
[18:11] <geser> c2tarun: looks like you a script created it which got run as root, chown the directory to your user to fix it (sudo chown tarun:tarun ~/.launchpadlib)
[18:11] <tumbleweed> bdrung: cool
[18:12] <c2tarun> geser: fixed :) thanks
[18:40] <debfx> kklimonda: yes, assuming it correctly uses qgtkstyle
[18:53] <kklimonda> debfx: hmm.. even the simplest button looks different. I was under the impression that Qt uses Gtk+ widgets completely (i.e. for the button it displays GtkButton with the set text, and mnemonics) and it doesn't seem to be the case.
[18:53] <directhex> toolkits pretending to be other toolkits always feel alien
[18:53] <directhex> hell, firefox and openoffice on ubuntu feel alien
[18:55] <kklimonda> directhex: sure, but I've hoped that the difference comes mostly from the fact that you create one gui for three platforms, and that if you work with Linux in mind you could create something closely following the look and feel of Gtk+.
[18:56] <kklimonda> and it's close.. just not close enough - it leaves this nagging feeling in the back of my head, that something isn't completely right.
[18:56] <directhex> kklimonda, even if you emulate gtk's widgets 100%, the HIG for apps differs
[18:56] <kklimonda> directhex: yes, but I've hard idea to follow GNOME HIG in Qt
[18:57] <debfx> afaik qgtkstyle uses native gtk widgets
[18:58] <kklimonda> debfx: it seems to be using gtk widgets' style
[18:59] <kklimonda> they do link with gtk+ and create gtk widgets - but they don't look and feel like gtk widgets. So I assume that they just take style from buttons and still paint their own widgets using this style.
[20:32] <ari-tczew> Daviey: please don't write about updated maintainer field in d/changelog.
[20:33] <soren> It really doesn't matter.
[20:33] <Daviey> ari-tczew, uh?
[20:34] <ari-tczew> Daviey: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomcat6/6.0.28-10ubuntu1
[20:34] <ari-tczew> soren: it's wrong with policy.
[20:34] <soren> Which policy forbids it?
[20:35] <Daviey> ari-tczew, url please
[20:42] <ari-tczew> Daviey: I don't have anything which could tell it 100%, http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ch-source.html#s-dpkgchangelog
[20:43] <Daviey> ari-tczew, that seems to make no reference to it :/
[20:43] <ari-tczew> Daviey: In general, we keep the information in d/changelog only which mean remaining changes which are blocking sync.
[20:43] <Daviey> ari-tczew, Where did you hear/read it was against policy, because that is /totally/ new to me
[20:43] <ari-tczew> Daviey: a lot of times
[20:44] <ari-tczew> herer
[20:44] <ari-tczew> here *
[20:44] <Daviey> ari-tczew, Well i can see your point, but i disagree..
[20:44] <ari-tczew> Daviey: why?
[20:44] <ari-tczew> is it really urgent information to keep in d/changelog?
[20:44] <Daviey> ari-tczew, it's something which has changed....
[20:44] <soren> Is it really so bad to put it there that you think it's necessary to complain when people do?
[20:44] <ari-tczew> Daviey: but it doesn't block sync
[20:45] <Daviey> ari-tczew, In a package lifecycle from diverging from Debian it should only be there ONCE... it's not like it's excess noise.
[20:45] <ari-tczew> soren: I don't say it's bad. Just telling it's not necessary and I discourage to using it next time.
[20:45] <Daviey> ari-tczew, Please find something documented.
[20:45] <ari-tczew> Daviey: I have to ask cjwatson, he has got policy.
[20:46] <soren> I agree it's rather useless information. Making that change is required by policy, but if people want to write in in the changelog, I don't care.
[20:47] <soren> Certainly not enough to be confrontational about it.
[20:47] <Daviey> ari-tczew, so if it's things purely blocking sync, if i cherry pick a patch from a debian package... but don't want the whole thing (think post feature freeze), what do you sugest the changelog entry is?
[20:47] <ari-tczew> soren: I like when everything is done perfect. <3
[20:47] <Daviey> because that situation does not block a sync.
[20:48] <ari-tczew> Daviey: I don't understand your question. don't you know how describe it in d/changelog?
[20:48] <Daviey> ari-tczew, Let me try again...
[20:49] <Daviey> Debian unstable has a new upload, fixing super-awesome-thing.patch....
[20:49] <ari-tczew> * debian/patches/XXXX.patch: fix blah blah blah (LP: #xxxx, Closes: #XXX)
[20:49] <Daviey> But also lots of new features
[20:49] <Daviey> Now, this patch is cherry picked, unedited from debian.
[20:49] <Daviey> I ONLY want that one patch, not the rest of the changes.
[20:49] <ari-tczew> yes
[20:49] <ari-tczew> so do it
[20:49] <Daviey> Threfore, it's not a sync blocker next cycle
[20:50] <ari-tczew> with *ubuntu1 upload
[20:50] <Daviey> Therefore, by your defintion - it doesn't need a changelog entry.
[20:50] <ari-tczew> Daviey: you don't understand me
[20:50] <ari-tczew> it blocks sync
[20:50] <Daviey> ari-tczew, no - i think you missunderstand me.
[20:50] <soren> It doesn't block sync. The change he made is in the Debian version, so a sync would include it.
[20:50] <Daviey> d/changelog is /purely/ sync blockers, when people are decided in the next cycle to sync or merge, right?
[20:51] <Daviey> ^^ That is how i understood your defintion.
[20:51] <ari-tczew> Daviey: look, QA changes like update maintainer or Vcs fields can be dropped for sync.
[20:51] <Daviey> agreed.
[20:51] <ari-tczew> patch of course, but it needs to be described
[20:51] <ari-tczew> in d/changelog
[20:51] <Daviey> So can my cherry picked patch, super-awesome.patch
[20:51] <ari-tczew> update-maintainer doesn't
[20:53] <Daviey> ari-tczew, as i said, this issue is pretty much resolved if you can find /any/ documentation that states we have policy describing this.
[20:54] <geser> Daviey: see the last sentence of http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ch-binary.html#s3.3
[20:55] <geser> about the documentation of Maintainer changes
[20:55] <ari-tczew> thanks geser
[20:57] <Daviey> geser, Okay, that does confirm it.  I don't agree with it, considering it should only happen once in a lifecycle - but if that is what is stated, ok.
[20:57] <Daviey> I'd like to know when that was approved, as it's *very* common for people to note that change.
[20:58] <ari-tczew> Daviey: I think a lot of developers know this one, looking on their uploads. ;-)
[20:58] <ScottK> Daviey: It's been a couple of years.
[20:58] <geser> Daviey: it was mentioned on the ubuntu-devel mailing list or even ubuntu-devel-announce, let me try to find it
[20:58] <soren> update-maintainer was updated to stop mentioning it in 2008.
[20:58] <Daviey> That is interesting... /me is tempted to do some grep to look at stats.
[20:59] <ari-tczew> This is an example when I'm afraid of giving core-dev for non expierenced Canonical staff.
[20:59] <Daviey> ari-tczew, dude... back off.
[20:59] <soren> *sigh*
[21:01] <ScottK> ari-tczew: That's really out of line.  An extra changelog entry is not ideal, but it has exactly zero affect on anything the user sees or does.
[21:01] <ari-tczew> ScottK: I wrote example.
[21:02] <ari-tczew> small example, right
[21:02] <ari-tczew> and nothing terrible
[21:02] <ScottK> ari-tczew: It's not an example of the kind at all.
[21:02] <soren> I've been core-dev for years and was MOTU for years before that and was developing on Ubuntu for years before that. I still make mistakes.
[21:02] <soren> We're not robots.
[21:02] <soren> Doesn't many any of us is any less suited to be core-dev.
[21:02] <geser> Daviey: a reference to the change I could find is https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-October/026623.html
[21:03]  * ari-tczew no? looking sometimes on people character here, I think so
[21:03] <highvoltage> soren++ (any human will make mistakes)
[21:03] <soren> If being core-dev meant you had to be infallible, there'd be exactly 0 core-devs and we'd get nothing at all done.
[21:04] <Daviey> geser, "There is no need" is not exactly the same as TB resolution on policy change.
[21:05] <ari-tczew> ScottK: I mean cases when people not very familiar with policies gain full upload access.
[21:05] <geser> Daviey: if you follow this thread to the third message, you will see the proposal for the change to the ubuntu-policy document
[21:06] <ScottK> ari-tczew: I don't think that's a conclusion you can reasonably draw from this incident.
[21:06] <Daviey> geser, ack
[21:06] <highvoltage> ari-tczew: I think the DMB would be quite offended at that statement, they take giving upload rights very seriously, and don't just hand out upload rights to Canonical staff if they didn'r already deserve it
[21:07] <geser> Daviey: I only want to point out, that this "no need to document it" is nothing new (didn't remember myself that it was that old already (Oct 2008))
[21:07] <Daviey> At *no* point has my employer been part of my application.  I'm not entirely happy about it being mentioned like this.
[21:07] <Daviey> I am a Ubuntu Developer, Not a Canonical Developer.
[21:08] <Daviey> geser, Yeah.. I was wrong about that..  Although i do feel a little hard done by here, I am tempted to grep changelogs to show that a significant amount of people do this.
[21:08] <soren> I think we'd be hard pressed to find a developer who remembered every tiny little bit of information in the policy anyway.
[21:08]  * Daviey feels attacked, and that makes him sad.
[21:09] <ScottK> Daviey: It's not worth it.  Spend your time on something productive.
[21:10] <highvoltage> Daviey: you woulndn't even need to, https://launchpad.net/~davewalker/+related-software speaks for itself!
[21:12] <ari-tczew> Daviey: Don't mess your feeling by me. Really.
[21:13] <ari-tczew> Daviey: Sorry for bad feeling. I wanted to make it as usual discussion.
[21:14] <Daviey> ari-tczew, you approached it very badly.
[21:14] <Daviey> Equally, I'm interested if you have been specifically following my work.
[21:14] <Daviey> I am interested why you added a comment, which mirrored exactly what i said on.
[21:14] <Daviey> https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/ubuntu//ubuntu-geoip/fix-719324/+merge/52268
[21:15] <ari-tczew> Daviey: It doesn't exist.
[21:16] <ari-tczew> Daviey: IIRC it was on sponsors overview, so I left a comment. I think it's not prohibited.
[21:16] <Daviey> https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-geoip/fix-719324/+merge/52268
[21:16] <ari-tczew> Daviey: Do you think I'm spying you?
[21:16] <Daviey> ari-tczew, It did make me wonder.
[21:16] <cody-somerville> Lets assume everyone is working in good faith please.
[21:17] <ari-tczew> Daviey: In ubuntu-geoip's case as I wrote, it was on sponsors overview, I left a comment.
[21:18] <ari-tczew> Daviey: About today's case - I check every upload when I look on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty
[21:18] <ari-tczew> every *last* upload
[21:18] <cody-somerville> Daviey, FWIW, I believe ari-tczew when he says that. I've seen him make this comment to numerous individuals.
[21:19] <ari-tczew> cody-somerville: thanks for trust :)
[21:26] <geser> Daviey: that was meant to be "used" against you, just informational (at least from me). I forget some specifics sometimes too and have to ask others.
[21:26] <geser> s/was/wasn't/
[21:27] <geser> my usual mistake: to think the "not" but not type it
[21:28] <cody-somerville> ari-tczew, On the same token, Daviey is core-dev and I trust him to make his changelogs useful. If he wants to include that bit of information, I'm fine with that. You're welcome to point out to people that they don't need to but I don't think it represents a serious lack of skill or experience. Its pedantic of you but thats your choice ;)
[21:30] <ari-tczew> cody-somerville: yea, it's nitpick
[21:33] <cody-somerville> And I don't think 'nitpicks' are worth making the accusation that someone is not fit for core-dev, don't you agree? ;)
[21:37] <ari-tczew> cody-somerville: Agree. I apologized.
[21:38] <cody-somerville> Daviey, Do you accept ari-tczew's apology? :)
[21:39] <Daviey> cody-somerville, Yes.
[21:40]  * Daviey is gonna get away from the computer for a bit.


 @Ivoriesablaze free game, ignore the Russian text. Telegram is being weird.
 https://www.gog.com/game/grim_fandango_remastered
[15:46] <maxolasersquad> Looks like it requires a $3.00 donation to their charity drive thing.
[15:47] <maxolasersquad> I think it's a charity, not sure.
 Nope
 My Dad passed away, I'm getting to this message late but there's a viewing today at the Palm Beach Memorial in Seacrest 4pm-7pm, there will be a gathering tonight at my house (ask for address if needed) and funeral tomorrow at 11am, Holy Spirit Catholic Church on Lantana Road..
 I'm actually it out of the state right now! I'm so sorry Judd!
[18:55] <maxolasersquad> Sorry to hear about that RazPi. I hope you have a good service this evening.
 When is the next meetup?  I'm going with my sister-in-law and family to myako sushi this weekend.
 @AdamOutler, I have been I'll with the flu for the past few days, I don't think I will be up for one this weekend
 My brethren, please bare witness to my testimony.
 There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.
 And with these words, I am now a formal member of the Church of Emacs.
 https://stallman.org/saint.html
[21:09] <maxolasersquad> Hmmm, didn't know we allowed emac heretics in this holy land. :)
 My brother in North Carolina just found someone giving away a TRS 80 on Craigslist. He asked me how hard is it to run Netflix on it for the kids to watch.
 It's easy.  You just need to compress the stream to 40px
 That's the hard part.
 He called BS when I said it does not have WiFi


[04:01] <pabs3> LeoNerd: if you are on Debian, take a look at debbisect from devscripts to figure out what update broke it. or this page for a more manual method https://wiki.debian.org/BisectDebian
[11:57] <LeoNerd> Ahyes I could try that, thanks
[16:40] <jelmer>  LeoNerd: do you have any plugins installed?
[17:04] <LeoNerd> Oh maybe.. hmm let me check
[17:04] <LeoNerd> Uhm wow, quite a lot according to `bzr plugins`...