[08:32] <tobias-urdin> coreycb: jamespage any of you around?
[08:32] <sahid> jamespage: morning, I have some snapshots ready for train m1
[08:32] <jamespage> tobias-urdin: I am
[08:36] <tobias-urdin> jamespage: sorry for ping, maybe coreycb is on pto, here is a snippet or my irc spam from last night http://paste.openstack.org/show/753171/
[08:57] <sahid> jamespage: when you have a moement can you sponsor me to syncpackage python3-ddt? cinder is needed version 1.2.1 which is in experimental
[08:57] <sahid> i successfully built the package on eoan
[08:58] <jamespage> sahid: yep - do you have alist of things I need to look at?
[08:59] <jamespage> tobias-urdin: which UCA pocket does that test pull from?
[08:59] <sahid> jamespage: sure let me prepare one for you
[09:05] <jamespage> sahid: if we sync python-ddt from debian experimental it drops python-ddt as a binary package which is OK - but we have to be prepared todo the work to drop py2 support from the reverse dependency chain
[09:05] <jamespage> sahid: 'reverse-depends -b python-ddt'
[09:05] <jamespage> that's the first set of rdepends, each of those may have some more
[09:05] <jamespage> without fully dropping the reverse-dependencies, it will just wedge in -proposed until we complete the work
[09:30] <sahid> jamespage: i probably missed something, i'm asking about to sync the python3
[09:32] <sahid> or you are saying that, syncing python3-ddt will drop python-dtt?
[09:38] <jamespage> sahid: yes
[09:39] <jamespage> sahid: the source package is python-ddt - the version in debian experimental only builds python3-ddt (python-ddt has been dropped)
[09:42] <jamespage> sahid: ftr we can only sync source packages - python3-ddt is a binary package only - $ rmadison -u debian python3-ddt
[09:48] <sahid> jamespage: understood, so basically doing a merge by our own like we do with the openstack deps, right?
[09:53] <jamespage> sahid: to unblock the milestones we're currently working on I'd just do a version bump in Ubuntu; we need todo the python-* drop soon, but I'd try not to entangle it with this first milestone
[10:13] <jamespage> sahid: working your list of merges now - thankyou!
[10:19] <jamespage> sahid: one amendment to manila-ui - https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Jszy3FfJTG/
[10:19] <jamespage> python versioning is not quite the same as distro versioning
[10:20] <jamespage> <IP_ADDRESS>b3 is equivalent to 14.0.0~b3 in distro versioning
[10:20] <tobias-urdin> jamespage: sry, went to lunch, you mean repos? here is the apt cache
[10:20] <tobias-urdin> http://logs.openstack.org/04/665704/1/check/puppet-openstack-integration-5-scenario001-tempest-ubuntu-bionic-mimic/f4cd240/logs/apt-cache-policy.txt.gz
[10:20] <jamespage> however we normally just use 14.0.0~ in this case to capture all betas/rcs etc during development
[10:33] <jamespage> sahid: ok those are all done and uploaded - thankyou :)
[10:41] <jamespage> tobias-urdin: yeah - qemu has moved to oldlibs in disco/bionic-stein
[10:41] <jamespage> so we'll need to change the dependency in nova-compute-qemu to pick the right qemu package
[10:42] <jamespage> is there a bug open for this?
[10:48] <tobias-urdin> jamespage: no, i wasn't sure if it was a bug :) do you want me to create one?
[10:51] <jamespage> tobias-urdin: yes please!
[11:02] <tobias-urdin> jamespage: thanks for the help! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nova/+bug/1833406
[11:06] <supaman> do system accounts like www-data, openldap etc always get the same UID/GID on ubuntu systems?
[11:07] <cpaelzer> supaman: there is a set of preallocated IDs, hose using that get the same ID
[11:07] <cpaelzer> supaman: this is requried fro e.g. cross node NFS UID stability
[11:07] <cpaelzer> base- something, let me check
[11:07] <supaman> ok, thanks
[11:08] <supaman> NFS sharing is excactly what I am thinking about :-)
[11:08] <cpaelzer> supaman: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-passwd
[11:08] <cpaelzer> TL;DR: you request a ID, you get one and then the packages postinst can use this ID
[11:09] <supaman> excellent, thanks
[11:10] <supaman> aha, /usr/share/base-passwd/{group,passwd}.master contains the info
[11:14] <sahid> ack for the versionning issue
[11:14] <sahid> thanks for the review/upload jamespage
[12:57] <mason> Is there an arm-specific channel? I'm seeing oddly different behaviour writing ubuntu-18.04.2-preinstalled-server-armhf+raspi3.img to a memstick (which works) and an actual hard drive (which ends up not working)
[12:59] <TJ-> mason: what device are you trying to boot from the hard-disk image?
[13:06] <ahasenack> rbasak: can an sru, assuming the other changes are ok, also change a package from native to non-native?
[13:06] <ahasenack> I mean in terms of policy
[13:09] <mason> TJ-: RPI3b+. It boots Raspbian from the hard drive unproblematically. It boots Ubuntu from the memstick unproblematically, but won't do it from the hard drive. Still exploring
[13:12] <TJ-> mason: how far does the boot get? what do you see?
[13:12] <mason> TJ-: It never finds a bootloader.
[13:13] <mason> I'll find another USB hard drive later and compare what gets written out.
[13:19] <TJ-> mason: have you see this, and the first para link to  "why some USB mass storage devices don't work"  https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bootmodes/msd.md
[13:20] <mason> TJ-: Doesn't apply.
[13:20] <mason> TJ-: If it did, I wouldn't be able to boot Raspbian from the drive.
[13:21] <rbasak> ahasenack: I don't think we have any policy on that. It seems like quite a rare event :)
[13:21] <rbasak> ahasenack: I don't see any reason it'd be a problem because it's only a source level change that doesn't impact the built binaries.
[13:22] <rbasak> ahasenack: you should call it out in the SRU documentation though so it doesn't confuse the reviewer.
[13:22] <ahasenack> sure
[13:22] <ahasenack> (about the call out)
[13:22] <ahasenack> I was wondering if it would become a "new" package in the queue
[13:22] <rbasak> You could probably demonstrate via binary debdiff that it hasn't impacted the output.
[13:22] <TJ-> mason: so presumably the boot images are subtly different
[13:22] <rbasak> I don't think it would
[13:23] <rbasak> ahasenack: I would probably run that by someone to make sure I haven't missed anything before accepting.
[13:23] <rbasak> But I can't think of any issue.
[13:23] <mason> TJ-: Yeah, and I need to figure out just how. Having one of each available instead of each in turn, I'll be able to compare directly.
[13:29] <TJ-> mason: I suspect the image has been designed (expected) to only boot from SD-card
[13:29] <mason> TJ-: Maybe. I'll explore the differences when I get a chance later.
[13:29] <mason> TJ-: Do you know if there's a specific channel where folks talk about ARM?
[13:30] <TJ-> mason: I'm not aware of one, but then again I've never needed to.
[13:32] <mason> I'll report back whatever I find. Maybe I'll end up constructing the partitioning by hand and copying things over. Be nice if the image worked out of the box, so if I can identify what's different, maybe you guys can make the requisite changes.
[13:37] <TJ-> mason: I'm not sure who does those builds or if there is a team/project in Launchpad for it even
[13:41] <mason> TJ-: Eh, we can tackle that after I figure out what's different. :)
[13:41] <mason> It wouldn't be a problem if Raspbian were more pleasant, but... =cough=
[13:48] <TJ-> mason: what's wrong with it?
[13:48] <mason> TJ-: Have you used it much?
[13:48] <TJ-> mason: this may be the ubuntu image builder but it is difficult to find any info https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-pi-flavour-maker
[13:48] <mason> Hm, will explore it. Thank you.
[13:48] <TJ-> mason: Yes
[13:49] <mason> TJ-: So, they incorporate bits of systemd, but it's hit or missing knowing just what. They have a configuration tool that doesn't wholly configure the things it says its configuring. Just a lot of slap-dash stitching together of tools...
[13:50] <TJ-> Sounds like typical sysv-init
[13:51] <mason> TJ-: Nah, sysvinit is a lot more straightforward and approachable.
[13:51] <mason> TJ-: sysvinit is why we have this playground to experiment and inflict new horrors on the world. It's the sheer success of sysvinit that gives us an industry.
[13:52] <mason> TJ-: But either way, you saw the bit where they've moved to systemd, yes?
[13:52] <TJ-> mason: I use it extensively, not had any problems with Rasbian in that respect
[13:53] <mason> Raspbian
[13:53] <jamespage> mdeslaur: testing the disco update for ceph at the moment
[13:54] <mason> TJ-: To be fair, I've never before encountered anyone with my sheer bugfinding potential.
[13:54] <ahasenack> rbasak: regarding haproxy, we are two versions behind
[13:54] <ahasenack> us and debian unstable are at 1.8.x, but debian experimental has 1.9.x already, and upstream just released 2.0 which you saw
[13:55] <mdeslaur> jamespage: thanks
[14:05] <jamespage> mdeslaur: I'm preparing point release updates for disco and cosmic (13.2.x series) are the security updates included in those releases.
[14:05] <jamespage> ?
[14:23] <mdeslaur> jamespage: one sec, let me check
[14:25] <jamespage> mdeslaur: anyway +1 on the disco update; doing cosmic next
[14:26] <mdeslaur> jamespage: I gather that is going to be 13.2.6?
[14:26] <jamespage> mdeslaur: yes
[14:30] <mdeslaur> jamespage: looks like they are
[15:46] <supaman> in the output of mount, the rsize and wsize for NFS shares, are they bits or bytes?
[15:46] <lordcirth> supaman, bytes
[15:47] <supaman> ok, 256 KB ... thats a bit large isn't it (not sending that large files usually) :-)
[16:58] <sfx2496> what is the right way to deal with "Ubuntu Server 18.04 Temporary failure in name resolution" at custom DNS, solutions like these give no result: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/53687051/ping-google-com-temporary-failure-in-name-resolution only /etc/resolv.conf works as temporary solution
[17:00] <lordcirth> sfx2496, please pastebin the output of 'systemd-resolve --status'
[17:25] <sfx2496> http://termbin.com/ycrz
[17:32] <lordcirth> sfx2496, so, you don't have a DNS server set there
[17:32] <lordcirth> sfx2496, How are you configuring your networking?
[17:33] <sfx2496> in /etc/netplan/50-cloud-init.yaml since other ways are depreciated so it seems
[17:34] <lordcirth> sfx2496, and do you have 'nameservers:' configured there?
[17:40] <sfx2496> now I have
[17:40] <sfx2496> seems to work after reboot
[17:41] <sfx2496> while still have "prepend domain-name-server" set to my DNS in dhclient.conf
[17:45] <sfx2496> so I derailed away from the yaml file by random solutions on this error
[17:45] <sfx2496> ty for pointing out
[17:46] <lordcirth> no problem
[17:47] <sfx2496> are those x.x.in-addr.arpa under DNSSEC NTA: default resolvers?
[17:50] <sfx2496> k, http://www.tcpipguide.com/free/t_DNSReverseNameResolutionUsingtheINADDRARPADomain-2.htm
[17:51] <tds> sfx2496: DNSSEC NTAs are nagtive trust achors, they tell resolved to not validate dnssec for anything in those zones
[17:52] <tds> eg that's mostly zones used for reverse dns of private address space
[18:58] <geard> hey everyone,i have stepped into a new environment with very little documentation on setup, configuration and system state. I am looking for suggestions on how you would approach inventorying a largish(~100 systems) crusty network
[19:02] <sarnold> ow, that's quite the undertaking
[19:03] <sarnold> I think I'd try a few prongs -- scanssh to get a quick inventory of what's there and what feels old, collect crednetials to all the machines as you can; maybe some arp scraping to try to find out what's on the network and *not* responding to ssh on the usual port..
[19:03] <geard> sarnold: yeah, I figured I would get that kind of response. I would eventually like to implement puppet or chef or insert CM solution here
[19:03] <sarnold> maybe managed switches can dump that information for you already..
[19:05] <geard> sarnold: I have a decent inventory. luckily we are  amostly virtual shop(vmware) so I have a decent inventory of systems. I am more looking for how to identify which applications are installed first. then backup their configurations.
[19:05] <sarnold> geard: ohhh, that's (slightly) better than I feared :)
[19:05] <geard> at some point the old admins went on a real vm sprawl bender
[19:06] <sarnold> heh, which is better? 1000 unmonitored VMs, each with one purpose? or ten big VMs that each do a hundred things? :)
[19:06] <geard> sarnold: depends on the medications you injest i suppose
[19:06] <sarnold> heheh
[19:07] <sarnold> nmaps to gather rough ideas of what's listening; dpkg -l | grep '^ii' to see what's installed..
[19:07] <sarnold> (that'll be drinking from a firehose, since of course everything has glibc and vim and so on..)
[19:08] <geard> I wrote some scripts that grab configurations i know about, rabbitmq, apache, nginx things of that nature but its those one off things that no one knows about that i'm worried about
[19:08] <geard> sarnold: yeah, i guess i could start off with a single system filter out the things i know i don't care about.
[19:09] <geard> thanks for a good starting point. out of curiousity what does the '^ii' do?
[19:10] <sarnold> geard: dpkg -l can show packages that aren't quite installed, or were once installed but then removed, etc.. ii in the first column shows packages installed and configured and everything
[19:10] <lordcirth> geard, '^' is the beginning of the line. so '^ii' matches any line that starts with 'ii'
[19:13] <kinghat> i have 2x1 TB drives in a ZFS mirror(pool?). i just got another 1TB drive. i would like to incorporate it into the system somehow. do you guys have any suggestions? i currently have 0 backups of this mirror.
[19:13] <geard> sarnold: thanks.
[19:13] <geard> lordcirth: thank you for the explaination
[19:16] <sarnold> kinghat: first, be sure to use zpool's -n command line option whatever you decide, to do a dry-run. I've seen more than a handful of people screw up and add a vdev with NO REDUNDANCY to their pools and immediately regret life.
[19:18] <sarnold> kinghat: I'd make it a three-way mirror. that's pretty safe choice, will improve read speeds, and give you a chance to slightly stress the disk to make sure it's not a dud
[19:18] <sarnold> kinghat: and if you ever get a fourth disk, it'd be easy to split the drive back off to make it into a pool with two vdevs of mirrors
[19:19] <kinghat> so it would be a mirror on top of the 2x1 mirror? with half the mirror only being 1x1 TB?
[19:20] <sarnold> kinghat: it'd be three drives with identical data
[19:20] <sarnold> kinghat: one of my pools here is three vdevs with 3-way mirrors: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dV3DzK8NRq/
[19:21] <kinghat> so the options are 3 way mirror, a backup of the mirror, and then making a 3 way pool of some sort?
[19:23] <sarnold> I'm not sure what the "3 way pool of some sort" would be -- you could have three vdevs with no redundancy, but that's too scary for me ;)
[19:23] <kinghat> i mean 3x1TB drives in some sort of combo where there is redundancy?
[19:24] <sarnold> you could do a raidz1, but that means rebuilding the pool
[19:25] <sdeziel> sarnold: don't you need to have mirrored logs to survive the lost of your NVME? or are log/zil devices not critical for consistency?
[19:25] <lordcirth> kinghat, with 3 drives, your only options with redundancy are 'mirror' - all three drives are identical (1TB usable) or 'raidz' - 1 parity drive with 2TB usable
[19:25] <sarnold> sdeziel: yeah, for this application I'm okay with that. I may even remove the slog at some point, since it's nearly unused
[19:27] <sdeziel> sarnold: ah OK, I wasn't sure if you wanted to optimize for read speed mostly or reliability with that 3-way mirror ;)
[19:27] <kinghat> is there a way to do the raidz setup but build it and keep the data somehow? build it on two drives and add the 3rd with the data or something?
[19:27] <lordcirth> kinghat, iirc it
[19:27] <lordcirth> *iirc it's possible to build a degraded raidz
[19:27] <sarnold> sdeziel: at the moment, read speed; the intention was to have a full searachable archive unpacked.. not much need for safety there :)
[19:27] <kinghat> degraded raidz?
[19:28] <sarnold> sdeziel: .. but I also thought at some point it'd be nice to consolidate all my photos and 25 years of scattered hard drives into one place, and then it'd be nicely redundant for safety too
[19:29] <sdeziel> sarnold: so is that single log device putting your array at risk?
[19:29] <lordcirth> kinghat, you can create a 3-drive raidz using 2 drives and a fake 1GB file, then remove that file. Then you can copy data over and then re-add the 3rd drive. But you should know what you are doing and have backups!
[19:29] <sarnold> sdeziel: not really. I'm fine with losing five seconds of writes if that nvme doesn't survive a powerless
[19:29] <lordcirth> Oops, you actually need a 1TB sparse file. But still
[19:30] <sdeziel> sarnold: ah nice, that's the thing I didn't know. I was (wrongly) assuming the ZIL was always a SPOF.. which makes no sense due to the CoW nature of ZFS
[19:30] <sarnold> sdeziel: the slog is only ever read at zpool import time, if it's needed
[19:30] <sarnold> sdeziel: that's low enough risk for me ;)
[19:31] <sdeziel> sarnold: indeed, thanks for setting me straight on the slog/ZIL :)
[19:31] <sarnold> sdeziel: and thanks for worrying about my data :D
[19:37] <kinghat> hmm maybe I'll just toss it in as a 3way mirror for now. extra 2 TB of space would be cool for a raidz.
[19:39] <sarnold> I'm vaguely thinking of turning my two pools into a single pool with a raidz3 vdev of nine spilling metal disks, and then two 2-way ssds as "special vdevs": https://zfsonlinux.org/manpages/0.8.0/man8/zpool.8.html#lbAK
[19:39] <sarnold> then I'd go from ~8 tb of storage to ~18 tb of storage
[19:42] <mason> That level of complexity feels fragily.
[19:42] <mason> fragile*
[19:42] <sarnold> "fragily" accurately describes it, yes
[19:43] <mason> If it were me I'd still be frightened of the SSDs.
[19:43] <sarnold> I'm hoping others will test out the special classes of vdevs
[19:43] <sarnold> I *think* that machine has space for two more ssds..
[22:22] <geard> how is the "62 packages can be updated.
[22:22] <geard> generated?
[22:22] <geard> sorryfor the double lines
[22:23] <sarnold> geard: update-motd(5)
[22:42] <geard> sarnold: thanks


[00:23] <choki> lubuntu is shit. tryin to set xterm 256 color support. why cant simple things work out of the box??? pain as HELL!
[00:23] <choki> -.-
[00:23] <choki> btw where is philw?
[00:23] <wxl> !language | choki
[00:24] <choki> yeah
[00:29] <choki> stupid, i go to arch
[00:29] <choki> just pain to set up
[00:29] <choki> https://push.cx/2008/256-color-xterms-in-ubuntu won't help at all
[00:29] <choki> bye
[00:30]  * crepple is listening reading choki and then searching https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/LXTerminal/Customising
[00:31] <choki> crepple: the wors wiki article i found before, doesnt help at all
[00:35] <crepple> choki The lxde channel is a bit form ant at this time of night but they're helpful in the (European) morning
[00:35] <crepple> I meant dormant
[00:36] <choki> crepple: xterm is just sh... u know the sh.... word
[00:36] <wxl> choki: so use your terminal of choice, hm?
[00:36] <choki> how can simple things to setup beeing so hard??
[00:36] <crepple> choki I know what you mean. I'm just getting used to lxde - I'm normally an xfce man
[00:37] <choki> crepple: no it is not about simple things like gui or deskto environments. setting 256 colors in xterm u need to study 10 years before u get it work
[00:38] <choki> work, which should be done by canoncial or lubuntu dev team
[00:38] <crepple> choki I think I read that lubuntu is unofficial - gets no support from canonical?
[00:38] <wxl> crepple: not true anymore
[00:39] <wxl> choki: you should be complaining at debian, it would seem.
[00:39] <crepple> wxl OK I'm out of date. I'll update my memory :)
[00:39] <choki> i would like to tell with philw now
[00:39] <choki> please
[00:39] <wxl> crepple: several years out of date, frankly
[00:39] <choki> where is he gone?
[00:39] <wxl> choki: go msg him
[00:39] <choki> i remember him
[00:40] <choki> he is not online anymore :(
[00:40] <choki> does he stilll fine, still alive?
[00:40] <wxl> um, he's online, for sure.
[00:40] <choki> no
[00:40] <choki> i cant see him here
[00:40] <choki> philw
[00:40] <wxl> he's not in this channel
[00:40] <wxl> but he is on the irc network
[00:40] <choki> why
[00:40] <choki> he was always in here
[00:40] <wxl> like i said, msg him and ask him
[00:41] <crepple> wxl though to be honest - the Debian channels peeps are so knowledgeable. ~They really know their OS
[00:41] <wxl> this is not #phillw
[00:41] <choki> oh
[00:41] <wxl> crepple: yep, and they're upstream for ubuntu. so any problems with xterm generally start there.
[00:42] <choki> ok i will rant there now...
[00:42] <wxl> can't wait
[18:43] <plujon> Is there some way to script a desktop session?  I would like to do something like: open firefox, wait a second, open new tab, wait a second, open another tab so that I can compare screencasts of different levels of quality using the exact same actions and timing.
[18:45] <ianorlin> plujon: you might want to look into xdotool which is a way to automate things with x
[18:47] <plujon> ianorlin: Cool; thanks; I'll take a look.
[18:57] <asd> Hey guys, is it true that in Lubuntu  I can't run cron jobs at reboot?
[18:58] <plujon> asd: "cron jobs at reboot"?
[18:59] <plujon> asd: A cron job by definition does not take place at a specific _event_.  It takes place at a specific _time_.
[18:59] <asd> yea running jobs at reboot
[18:59] <Unit193> "is it true" meaning someone told you or you can't figure it out?
[18:59] <Unit193> plujon: Well, there is @reboot :P
[18:59] <asd> yes @reboot
[19:00] <asd> Unit193, I read it on a site
[19:00] <plujon> I've never heard of that.  In a crontab?  Interesting.
[19:00] <asd> yea in crontab
[19:00] <Unit193> plujon: Yep, generally yes things are time based, but @reboot is a time right? ;)
[19:00] <asd> but even simple things like: @reboot ls, cant work for me
[19:02] <Unit193> @yearly|@annually, @monthly, @weekly, @daily|@midnight, @hourly  are all just aliases.
[19:04] <plujon> asd: @reboot sleep 30 && ls # maybe?
[19:04] <asd> plujon, I'm going to try it now
[19:05] <Unit193> asd: Where are you expecting the output?
[19:05] <asd> in terminal-emulator
[19:06] <Unit193> No...  That's not how crontab works...  Try @reboot ls > ~/myfiles
[19:07] <asd> I could run @reebot  xterm -hold -e ls
[19:07] <asd> probably
[19:23] <Unit193> DISPLAY=:0
[21:08] <plujon> I'd like to make a recording of my desktop for publishing on the web.  I am trying to use recordmydesktop and avconv to convert the result to webm format, but the result is pretty poor.  Is there a guide for doing this?
[21:09] <plujon> By "pretty poor", I mean, "looks fuzzy".  And I notice that the size of the webm result is practically unrelated to the size of the .ogv produced by recordmydesktop (I produced about a dozen to compare different frame rates and such).
[21:09] <Unit193> !screencast | This is the best I can see
[21:11] <plujon> Unit193: Thanks, that page looks useful.
[21:14] <Unit193> Lets hope.
[21:15] <plujon> Interestingly, webm isn't mentioned in the above pages.
[21:15] <plujon> I am using webm because I noticed my android device doesn't play .ogv files.
[21:18] <Unit193> And, webm is pretty cool, just like opus.
[21:21] <plujon> "For size we recommend 1024x768/1280x720 at 24fps."
[21:22] <plujon> No recommendation for quality.
[21:23] <plujon> Well, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RecordingScreencasts has some useful information, but it also lacks the information I most want: namely, exactly what app and settings to use to publish a screencast so that it is available to most people, not too big, and clear enough to view.
[21:33] <Pyhscript> hello
[21:34] <Pyhscript> i have 448 mb of ram will i be able to run lubuntu?
[22:08] <MajB> pyhscript:  That should be enough to run Lubuntu.  It is more than the minimum required but the only way to be sure because hardware makes a difference is to try it and see.
[22:10] <Pyhscript> MajB i know it was minimun for older version but afaik it's less than mimimum for new version
[22:11] <Unit193> Browsers aren't going to work well, at all.
[22:12] <Pyhscript> Unit193, with my specs?
[22:12] <Unit193> 448M ram?  Unless you're using w3m.
[22:13] <Pyhscript> my integrated graphic card takes 64 mb
[22:13] <Pyhscript> but ok i understand
[22:13] <Pyhscript> Unit193, suggestions?
[22:14] <Unit193> Pyhscript: Well, any system you use isn't going to like browsers.  You can try some more lightweight ones, but that's just plain not a lot of ram.  Xombrero, qupzilla, etc to name a few.
[22:16] <Pyhscript> Unit193, are browsers for lubuntu more advanced? here on xp(i know i am moving away from it) i can run chrome,mozilla or any browser i want without problems
[22:17] <MajB> I am running Lubuntu 14.04.2 on an old Dell Inspiron 1000 with about amount of RAM.  I am using Firefox with no problems.
[22:19] <MajB> with about the same amount of RAM
[22:20]  * Unit193 shrugs.
[22:20] <Unit193> If it works, it works I suppose.  Least I've run it on was 1G, which was..
[22:20] <Pyhscript> and yea one more question: i use usb 3g dongle t connect is that good supported on lubuntu?
[22:21] <Pyhscript> *to
[22:21] <MajB> Boot from a CD and try all of the stuff out.  Take it for a test drive.
[22:21] <Unit193> !info modemmanager
[22:21] <Unit193> Exactly, live is very helpful.
[22:22] <Pyhscript> MajB i will use liveusb as i dont have burner
[22:23] <MajB> Same same.
[22:23] <Pyhscript> oh modemanager is used to connect? is it easy to use? or i need to configure stuff ,make conf files etc
[22:23] <Pyhscript> switch modes
[22:23] <MajB> I recently had a problem with a flash drive that I created with unetbootin.  Apparently there is a bug.
[22:24] <Pyhscript> !info NetworkManager
[22:24] <Pyhscript> ah ok i heard that's used in ubuntu
[22:24] <Pyhscript> or arch
[22:24] <Unit193> !info network-manager
[22:24] <Pyhscript> oh
[22:26] <Pyhscript> ok sorry i am noob but do they come when i download lubuntu or i must download it from xp and then get it from lubuntu?
[22:26] <Pyhscript> ok let me clarify: to get those packages do i need internet access?
[22:27] <MajB> Have you downloaded the Lubuntu iso
[22:27] <Unit193> They are installed by default.  I've never used 3G.
[22:28] <Pyhscript> ah ok
[22:31] <Pyhscript> MajB not yet
[22:37] <MajB> That will be your first step.
[22:38] <MajB> Since you have what appears to be an old machine, you will probably want to down load the 32 bit i386iso to try it first.
[22:39] <Pyhscript> MajB so not desktop edition?
[22:40] <Pyhscript> i cant find i386
[22:40] <MajB> Yes that is the desktop edition
[22:40] <Pyhscript> ah good
[22:40] <MajB> If you notice there are many.  Some are 32 bit and some are 64 bit.
[22:42] <Pyhscript> no there are no many just standard pc 32 bit,standard pc 64 bit,powerpc and alternative version for < 400 mb of ram
[22:42] <Pyhscript> MajB
[22:43] <Pyhscript> i need standard pc 32 bit right?
[22:43] <Pyhscript> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/GetLubuntu
[22:43] <Pyhscript> here right?
[22:45] <MajB> Go here http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/14.04/release/
[22:46] <MajB> Download the first one.  That is the 32 bit version.
[22:48] <Pyhscript> MajB ok i am downloading
[22:49] <Pyhscript> it will take a while
[22:49] <Pyhscript> 25 minutes
[22:49] <Pyhscript> MajB i might fall a sleep will you be here tommorow?
[22:50] <MajB> After you download the iso, you should check the md5sum (hash).  If you don't know how to do that check here.  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM
[22:50] <Pyhscript> dont worry i know
[22:50] <Pyhscript> i have python script to do it(you see Py in my name :) )
[22:51] <Pyhscript> s/(//
[22:51] <MajB> I will be on tomorrow but we are traveling from Texas to Arizona
[22:51] <Pyhscript> oh
[22:52] <MajB> It may be late.
[22:54] <Pyhscript> well it's late here now here it's  almost 1:==
[22:54] <Pyhscript> 1:00 *
[22:57] <MajB> So there is a 7 hour time difference.  You are in Europe somewhere.
[22:58] <Pyhscript> yup
[22:58] <Pyhscript> not saying where thought :D
[22:58] <Pyhscript> MajB , 7 hours more or less?
[22:59] <MajB> OK.  I will look for you tomorrow if you have any more questions, but I am sure anyone on this channel will be able and more than willing to assist.
[22:59] <Pyhscript> ok np
[22:59] <Pyhscript> thanks
[23:02] <Pyhscript> MajB basically what i need to do when its downloaded is to get iso to usb with universal usb installer or usb writer or something i'll find by simple search right?
[23:02] <MajB> That is correct
[23:03] <Pyhscript> good
[23:04] <Pyhscript> then make it in bios to boot it of usb and then choose to run in live mode and then everything i need to do is to connect it?
[23:04] <MajB> You got it.  It is really simple.
[23:05] <Pyhscript> oh good
[23:26] <Pyhscript> uh oh iso downloaded
[23:26] <Pyhscript> ok i go check md5sum


[22:42] <pleia2> nhaines: can we cross-post your blog post to fridge.u.c ? (we give attribution, link back
[22:42] <pleia2> )
[22:42] <pleia2> was just going to grab the mailing list post to put on fridge, but it doesn't have enough detail


[21:49] <scarfhogg> hi all. i'm on kubuntu 9.04 beta and tried to install the package libical-dev
[21:50] <scarfhogg> but it gives me a dependency error: libical-dev: Hängt ab: libical0 (= 0.43-2) aber 0.43-2ubuntu1~intrepid1~ppa1 soll installiert werden
[21:50] <knotnaam> !jaunty
[21:52] <evoleh> Does anyone know I reset programs on ubuntu? I tried to remove a program and then readd it, but the settings were still the same.
[21:52] <jamesjedimaster> look for its settings inside .kde directory and delete them
[21:52] <evoleh> Aight. Thnx
[21:53] <kanon-mat> or maybe use dpkg-reconfigure packagename
[21:53] <kanon-mat> it may not be a kde app
[21:54] <shantzu> could anyone please recommend me a good text editor with syntax highlighting for web editors (php, html, js, css, etc)?
[21:56] <jamesjedimaster> kate, I saw its highlighted syntax. but I still prefer vi
[21:56] <kanon-mat> quanta is for web dev
[21:57] <scarfhogg> jedit
[21:57] <kalidar> guys i have a seriuos problem when i play et the game bugs out and crashes alot
[21:57] <kalidar> and i lag terrabaly even tho the graphics are medeoker
[21:57] <kalidar> can someone help me fix this?
[21:58] <kanon-mat> u have compiz on?
[21:58] <kalidar> yea
[21:58] <kalidar> compiz is gnome isent it/
[21:58] <kalidar> im in kde
[21:58] <kalidar> im in kwin i think
[21:58] <kanon-mat> anyway, desktop effects can interfere with games
[21:58] <shantzu> cool, thanks guys =)
[21:59] <kalidar> \ok
[21:59] <kalidar> whats your shugestion?
[22:00] <jamesjedimaster> disable compiz and/or disable acceleration graphics
[22:00] <kanon-mat> if you use desktop effects, try playing without
[22:00] <kalidar> how do i do that? that sucks btw i shouldent have to do all this stuff evertime iwana play a game
[22:00] <kanon-mat> or is this a gfx driver issue?
[22:00] <kalidar> what do you consider desktop efects i have alot of widgets if thats what u mean
[22:00] <kalidar> dont think its graphix driver isue
[22:01] <kalidar> as i se the game fine most of the time
[22:01] <kalidar> just sometimes the game glitches out
[22:01] <kalidar> and crashes and or graphix get bugy
[22:01] <kanon-mat> do you run some other apps at the same time?
[22:02] <kalidar> umm just ktorrent
[22:02] <kalidar> and xchat
[22:02] <BOZG> Hey
[22:02] <_Goat_> hi
[22:02] <kalidar> do i seriousley have to disable desktop effects and metacity --replace everytime i wana play a game?
[22:02] <BOZG> Since I switched to Kubuntu, from Ubuntu, Firefox no longer associates any file types with programmes.
[22:02] <BOZG> Anyone have any idea?
[22:03] <kanon-mat> running torrents while playing games is known to lag you down
[22:03] <BOZG> Even clicking Open Containing Folder asks me to open with
[22:03] <kalidar> i disable the downloads tho
[22:03] <kalidar> i just leave it open is al
[22:03] <kalidar> ok how do i disable desktop effects and what is a good window manager for kde cuz kwin sux
[22:04] <kalidar> everytime i run a fulscren game in kwin it gets glithey
[22:04] <kalidar> and colorfull lol
[22:04] <kanon-mat> i think kwin is ok, idk
[22:04] <kalidar> aww man well im using metacity rite now
[22:04] <kanon-mat> i play games in windowed mode the size of my screen
[22:04] <jamesjedimaster> k menu -> system -> desktop effects
[22:04] <kalidar> and metacity is gnome
[22:05] <kanon-mat> and turn borders off
[22:05] <kanon-mat> i use kde3, idk exactly how that works in kde4
[22:05] <kalidar> that dosent work
[22:06] <kalidar> i think its a kde 4 isue
[22:06] <jamesjedimaster> do you use ubuntu or kubuntu?
[22:06] <kalidar> kubuntu
[22:06] <wir> 8.04 or 8.10?
[22:06] <kalidar> also i cant get sound in games
[22:06] <kalidar> 8.10
[22:06] <kanon-mat> have you tried other games?
[22:07] <kalidar> sorry just et i cant get sound
[22:07] <kalidar> yeah other games work fine untill i fullscren them
[22:07] <wir> what graphics car u got?
[22:07] <kalidar> when i play games fulscren it gliches and gets realy colorfull and glitchey
[22:07] <kalidar> i dunno
[22:07] <wir> that's a point
[22:08] <wir> u need know otherwise we cannot help
[22:08] <kanon-mat> some games dont provide sound in glx and in 64bit version
[22:08] <kalidar> well if is my graphics card then im skrewed
[22:08] <kalidar> im playing the 32 bit version
[22:08] <wir> ah sorry sound card ;-)
[22:08] <kanon-mat> so i use the sdlversion
[22:08] <kalidar> how i find out what sound card i have
[22:08] <wir> thats rather not a problem
[22:08] <kalidar> ich forget he soundcard
[22:09] <kalidar> i wana get the graphix workin first
[22:09] <kalidar> no point fixing sound if i cant play it lol
[22:09] <wir> find out more about your hardware
[22:09] <wir> what do u see in logs?
[22:09] <kalidar> omg i hate linux
[22:09] <kanon-mat> what graphics card
[22:09] <kalidar> hold on
[22:10] <kalidar> how i find out what graphix card i have
[22:10] <kalidar> in linux
[22:10] <kanon-mat> open case :)
[22:10] <wir> kalidar: if u hate it why u use it?
[22:10] <kalidar> cuz i love it too
[22:10] <kalidar> lol i hate it and i love it
[22:10] <Mamarok> kalidar: type lspci in a console
[22:10] <kalidar> its a love hate relationship
[22:10] <kalidar> lspci got it
[22:10] <gundam_rx78nt1> hello, is there a problem with updating?  I keep geting Hash Sum mismatch everytime I try to update.
[22:10] <gundam_rx78nt1> any pointers on how to correct this?
[22:10] <kanon-mat> lspci | less is even better
[22:10] <cinex> kanon-mat: lspci
[22:11] <kalidar> its a intell
[22:11] <cinex> lspci |less is gay
[22:11] <kanon-mat> integrated graphics card?
[22:11] <wir> shit, this channel so busy ;-)
[22:11] <kalidar> a00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) High Definition Audio Controller (rev 02)
[22:11] <Dragnslcr> !language
[22:12] <wir> ohh sorry pal
[22:12] <kanon-mat> what commands are i allowed to use? :(
[22:12] <wir> Dragnslcr: what language?
[22:12] <cinex> any u want kanon-mat
[22:12] <wir> :-)
[22:12] <wir> no problem
[22:12] <kanon-mat> i think cinex was using language :)
[22:13] <kalidar> ok forget it if i wana play games ill jus go to windows i dont have patiants to be doing all this debuging rite now ill come back later maby
[22:13] <kalidar> and try this again
[22:13] <kalidar> im gona go read some faq and stuf
[22:13] <kanon-mat> integrated graphics?
[22:13] <kalidar> thanks guys
[22:13] <gundam_rx78nt1> Anybody  having problems with updating?
[22:13] <kalidar> how i find out
[22:14] <kalidar> graphix card information
[22:14] <gundam_rx78nt1> Hash Sum mismatch problems when doing an update to the distro?
[22:14] <wir> kalidar: yes, try read it, then try to contact us if u need more help ;-)
[22:14] <kalidar> indeed
[22:14] <kalidar> l8trs thx
[22:16] <kanon-mat> i havent heard of Hash Sum mismatch, is that a repository problem? wrong keys? idk
[22:16] <oem> hola
[22:16] <gundam_rx78nt1> I don't really know.
[22:16] <gundam_rx78nt1> I haven't done anything to cause that problem.
[22:17] <gundam_rx78nt1> I haven't been able to update my system  for the past 2 weeks.
[22:17] <gundam_rx78nt1> Even if I try to do an apt-get on the command line, it will  fail  with that error.
[22:18] <gundam_rx78nt1> It is also happening to my 8.04 box
[22:18] <kanon-mat> maybe you have to choose other repos
[22:20] <kanon-mat> i read there is a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/173932
[22:25] <kanon-mat> gundam_rx78nt1: is it the same when you do: sudo aptitude update?
[22:25] <idespinner> Ive had a hash key mismatch in my ubuntu gnome 8.04 for the past 2 months...
[22:26] <idespinner> not sure what it is though, I hit ignore
[22:27] <kanon-mat> "My case turned out to be because, here at work, I'm behind the corporate firewall and needed to configure apt-get to use the proxy server (in Synaptic Package Manager -> Settings -> Network tab)"
[22:28] <kanon-mat> from http://www.zyxware.com/articles/2008/07/27/how-to-fix-hash-sum-mismatch-and-size-mismatch-errors-from-apt-get-apt-cacher
[22:37] <Jampiter> I have both kdm and gdm installed. Kdm is active. How do I change this to gdm?
[22:41] <rickest> Jampiter: use update-rc.d to disable kdm, enable gdm
[22:45] <berna> Hi all
[22:46] <berna> ??
[22:48] <kalidar> ok guys i got my graphix to work fine in enemy terratory but i cant get sound atall
[22:48] <kalidar> i was wondering how do i find out what my soundcard is so i can echo it
[22:49] <kalidar> maby that will work
[22:56] <gundam_rx78nt1> Ok, no matter what I do, I still have the hash sum mismatch error when trying to update my distribution on 8.10
[22:57] <gundam_rx78nt1> I have changed my repositories to no avail.
[22:57] <gundam_rx78nt1> how do I get the keys for the main kubuntu repositories?
[22:59] <vital> pulseaudio does not 'find' my hardware, can I add it manually? or run some detection-stuff?  running jaunty beta.
[23:00] <jdahl> I have not been able to configure are wireless network in Kubuntu 9.04,  but it has always worked without problems in Ubuntu.  Do you need to do anything special?  I navigated to "network settings -> wireless" and found my wireless access point by "scan", but I cannot activate it
[23:07] <Haza1__> Quick question. How do i list all the ports that are open and listening on my system via the terminal?
[23:07] <Cycom> is it possible to stream video from an sftp server to something like Dragon?  I was able to do this in gnome, but haven't been able to figure it out in KDE.  It seems that dolphin (or whatever app manages this) attempts to copy the entire file to temp first.
[23:07] <Cycom> Haza1__: I think it's netstat...
[23:07] <Cycom> Haza1__: if you're looking for actual open ports, you can always use nmap to portscan yourself.
[23:08] <mjrclark> kalidar: lspci as before, in fact your message at 22:11:48 shows your sound card info
[23:09] <Haza1__> Cycom: Thank you :)
[23:10] <Haza1__> Cycom: Can i pass netstat an argument to check and see if anything is listening on a certain port?
[23:15] <Cycom> Haza1__: I beleive so, can't remember what argument though.
[23:21] <mjrclark> Hazal__: man page doesn't say anything other than -l for listening, could pass the huge output to | grep portnumber
[23:33] <Cycom> but yeah, is it possible to play media files over sftp?
[23:34] <robinr> if the player understands the sftp protocol, why not?
[23:35] <robinr> but, my guess is that few if any does
[23:36] <guest> I have duel displays set up and I cant figure out for the life of me how to move the panel to the other display.
[23:37] <Cycom> robinr: in gnome they had gvfs handle it, at least in 8.10, so just about anything could be played even if the player doesn't understand the proto.
[23:38] <robinr> guest: you need to set up xinerame, sometimes called twinview for that
[23:38] <robinr> s/xinerama
[23:38] <guest> yea I have twinview setup all ready
[23:38] <robinr> Cycom: if the player supports the gvfs
[23:38] <frogonwheels> guest presumably youcan move windows across displays
[23:38] <guest> yup
[23:38] <robinr> (and kio slaves for KDE)
[23:39] <Cycom> robinr: does vlc support gvfs?
[23:39] <frogonwheels> guest in kde 4.2 you can definitely move the panel across displays
[23:39] <josh-l> weird gimp toolbox isnt showing in the taskmanager
[23:39] <guest> frogonwheels:span across both displays?
[23:40] <robinr> guest: try to look for something like "primary screen" in the settings
[23:40] <frogonwheels> guest. possibly, but not what I meant.
[23:40] <guest> yea it has my wide screen as the primary but it shows up on the secondary
[23:40] <frogonwheels> guest you can always add a panel to the primary
[23:41] <frogonwheels> guest:  I've just upgraded to 4.2 - can't remember how you move the panel to different edges in 4.1 um..
[23:42] <frogonwheels> when you select the pallet for the panel,  is there a 'move' command shown?
[23:42] <guest> frogonwheels: im on 4.2 also
[23:43] <frogonwheels> guest cool.   then click the pallette for the panel and click and drage on 'move edge'
[23:43] <frogonwheels> drage=drag
[23:44] <frogonwheels> Does that makes sense?
[23:44] <guest> frogonwheels: maybe its the task manager im talking about. The bar that goes accross the bottom of the screen.
[23:45] <frogonwheels> .. and there's that little pallete drop thing that edits the panel (that contains the task manager)
[23:45] <frogonwheels> (drop shape in a semi-circle - click that)
[23:45] <frogonwheels> I think of it as a paint palette - but that might not be the idea!?
[23:45] <guest> frogonwheels: ok
[23:46] <frogonwheels> the one for the panel, not for the desktop.
[23:46] <frogonwheels> (it's a semi-circle on the panel, actually :))
[23:48] <josh-l> weird gimp toolbox isnt showing in the taskmanager
[23:49] <frogonwheels> josh-l: there's an option somewhere to obey the hint to hide windows from the taskmanager.
[23:49] <frogonwheels> josh-l: I suspect the gimp toolbox has the 'don't show me in the taskmanager' hint.. and you have the option ticked
[23:49] <josh-l> frogonwheels: would that be in settings then?
[23:49] <josh-l> i mean system settings
[23:49] <frogonwheels> josh-l: Yep. somewhere there.
[23:49] <josh-l> k thx
[23:50] <guest> frogonwheels: nope
[23:50] <frogonwheels> as in you can't find the 'move edge' button?
[23:50] <guest> cant find it
[23:51] <frogonwheels> ok. I'll paint you a picture. hold a sec.
[23:51] <guest> when I click the semicricle thing all it has is add widget
[23:51] <frogonwheels> hmmm. where do I pastebin images?
[23:51] <josh-l> frogonwheels: dont see it
[23:52] <guest> imagebin.ca
[23:52] <|PaperTiger|> How do I install ATi Catalyst Control Centre?
[23:52] <josh-l> frogonwheels: i see how i can make it skip taskbar if i want... but its unselected already
[23:53]  * frogonwheels shrugs
[23:55] <phoenixz_> Should Kubuntu 9.04 now install KDE4.2?
[23:56] <phoenixz_> I had 4.1++  and after upgrade its the same
[23:56] <phoenixz_> friend of mine had 4.1 and after upgrade itsa also the same
[23:56] <frogonwheels> guest http://imagebin.ca/view/U8Pn5lyh.html
[23:57] <|PaperTiger|> I'm using 4.1 on 8.10
[23:57] <phoenixz_> For one, we're both missing a large bunch of applets (no battery monitor anymore, and the supposed to be there wifi network applet isnt there either
[23:57] <frogonwheels> guest you click on the little palette thing in the orange circle.. and you see that config panel pop down
[23:58] <frogonwheels> guest: then you click-drag the /Screen Edge/ button (in blue circle)


[15:46] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[16:15] <micahg> good morning ChanServ
[16:15] <micahg> oops
[16:15] <micahg> good morning charlie-tca
[16:15] <charlie-tca> Good morning, micahg
[16:50] <davmor2> charlie-tca: how did we miss each other dude?  I was looking out for you and persia describe you and I thought I saw him :(
[16:50] <davmor2> charlie-tca: I hope you had an uneventful flight home :)
[17:00] <charlie-tca> davmor2: had a good flight home.
[17:01] <charlie-tca> tried to find you, but sometimes, it just doesn't work out
[17:01] <charlie-tca> I had time to talk with persia this time. It was Great!
[17:01] <davmor2> charlie-tca: yeah 600 people in a confined space doesn't help
[17:01] <davmor2> yeah persia is a dude
[17:01] <charlie-tca> yeah, exactly.
[17:02] <charlie-tca> Then try to find someone you don't know at all, too
[17:02] <davmor2> charlie-tca: Yeap that too
[17:03] <davmor2> charlie-tca: best of it is you spoke to one of my colleagues a couple of times at breakfast dsowen
[17:05] <charlie-tca> heh
[17:05] <charlie-tca> I spoke to a lot of people, I think
[17:23] <charlie-tca> davmor2: next time, look for the elderly gray haired guy!
[17:23] <davmor2> with a stick
[17:23] <charlie-tca> yeah, that one
[17:39] <davmor2> charlie-tca: well hopefully I'll be at the next one too so should be good
[17:42] <charlie-tca> That would be great!
[17:43] <charlie-tca> I did finally get to meet some of the other people, though. I guess a few at a time works.
[17:43] <charlie-tca> I even got to meet pleia2 in person!
[17:44] <charlie-tca> It is really hard to meet up with the one called cody-somerville though. Maybe we can get together in orlando, too
[17:45] <davmor2> charlie-tca: Cody is easy to find just look for some one else and he always seems to be there :D
[17:46] <charlie-tca> I didn't try that one :-)


[12:46] <Aweman> Hello, I think I found a small bug with the Ubuntu 15.04 installation process.
[12:47] <Aweman> When u select a language and follow some more steps in the installation process and then go back to the beginning and select another language, the language won't change to the newly selected one everywhere
[12:48] <Aweman> Since this might be hard to understand I recorded a short video which shows the behaviour
[12:48] <Aweman> https://www.dropbox.com/s/e5iokdbxdmymbl2/Ubuntu%2015.04%20Language%20Selection%20BUG.webm?dl=0
[22:06] <pyrite> Could someone look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bash-completion/+bug/1358154
[22:06] <pyrite> There is a merge request waiting for review
[22:07] <pyrite> It was thought to be fixed in vivid, but there was a typo and the patch was never applied
[22:10] <tarpman> pyrite: I'd suggest re-opening the bug (change the status from Fix Released back to Confirmed) and subscribe sponsors team (ubuntu-sponsors) so it shows up on http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
[22:12] <pyrite> I dont have the permissions to change from Fix Released
[22:24] <pyrite> Can I apply for the necessary permissions? Or would someone else reopen it


[00:23] <wwitzel3> perrito666: you still around?
[03:48] <davecheney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1353239
[05:19] <davecheney> menn0_: i'm going to try again
[05:19] <davecheney> but this time run my mongo in the foreground
[05:19] <menn0_> davecheney: good idea
[05:20] <menn0_> I'm getting closer to finding the culprit rev
[05:21] <davecheney> menn0_: i'm not sure it's our fault
[05:21] <davecheney> mongo appears to be shitting itself
[05:21] <davecheney> we're still using 2.4.x on precise
[05:21] <menn0_> I think it's triggered by the way we're setting up mongo though
[05:22] <davecheney> sure
[05:22] <davecheney> no argument there
[05:22] <menn0_> whether what we're doing is reasonable or not is another matter
[05:22] <davecheney> but having to work around fragile software does not lead to robust systems
[05:23] <menn0_> sure but let's narrow this down first before jumping to conclusions :)
[05:34] <davecheney> reasons to hate upstart number 1<<72
[05:34] <davecheney> ubuntu@ip-10-251-35-4:~$ service juju-db
[05:34] <davecheney> juju-db: unrecognized service
[05:34] <davecheney> ubuntu@ip-10-251-35-4:~$ service juju-db status
[05:34] <davecheney> juju-db start/running, process 10783
[05:37] <menn0> davecheney: "service" isn't upstart is it? You want: "status <service-name>"
[05:38] <davecheney> why does the 2 arg form but the 3 arg version work ?
[05:39] <davecheney> menn0: i'm seeing the same mongo connection reauthenticating itself over and over again
[05:39] <menn0> davecheney: yep I think I see the same
[05:39] <davecheney> that sounds wrong
[05:40]  * davecheney logs bug
[05:41] <davecheney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1353275
[05:46] <davecheney> hmmm, Wed Aug  6 05:45:38.641 [rsMgr] replSet not electing self, not all members up and we have been up less than 5 minutes
[05:46] <davecheney> Wed Aug  6 05:45:38.641 [rsMgr] replSet info electSelf 1
[05:46] <davecheney> Wed Aug  6 05:45:39.574 [conn2] end connection <IP_ADDRESS>:32995 (1 connection now open)
[05:53] <davecheney> menn0: even when mongo doesn't shit itself
[05:53] <davecheney> the environment is still unusable
[05:53] <davecheney> the api server is offline
[05:53] <menn0> yes, I've seen that
[05:53] <menn0> in fact I have an env doing exactly that now
[05:54] <menn0> I'm beginning to think this is culprit:
[05:54] <menn0> commit 62e172632c3e9d8496805ed5223f9f4acc28986a
[05:54] <menn0> Merge: 8275fa4 ce0840e
[05:54] <menn0> Author: Juju bot<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:54] <menn0> Date:   Thu Jul 31 12:53:28 2014 +0100
[05:54] <menn0>     Merge pull request #416 from axw/mongo-journalenabled
[05:54] <menn0>
[05:54] <menn0>     Only set Safe.J (with mgo.SetSafe) if journaling is enabled
[05:54] <menn0>
[05:54] <menn0>     Mongo 2.6 errors if you attempt to set Safe.J when journaling is disabled. We introduce a new fun
[05:55] <davecheney> menn0: if you want to push the revert button
[05:55] <davecheney> i'll LGTM that
[05:55] <davecheney> i think it's time for some drastic action
[05:55] <menn0> I'm going to try a local build first without that rev and see what happens
[05:56] <davecheney> oh look, https://bugs.launchpad.net/mgo/+bug/1340275
[06:01] <menn0_> davecheney: interesting...
[06:03] <davecheney> menn0_: more information
[06:03] <davecheney> machines 1, and 2
[06:03] <davecheney> the new replicas
[06:03] <davecheney> never start
[06:03] <davecheney> sorry
[06:03] <davecheney> the machine gets through cloud init
[06:03] <davecheney> but they can never connect to the original api server
[06:04] <davecheney> so they can never get their configuration and find they are running a state server job
[06:06]  * menn0_ nods
[06:06] <menn0_> I'm not sure it always happens that way but I have seen something like that
[06:06] <menn0_> I'm trying now with the Safe.J change removed
[06:16] <menn0_> davecheney: how much longer are you going to be around
[06:16] <menn0_> ?
[06:16] <menn0_> I need to go eat with the family
[06:19] <davecheney> menn0_: i'm out pretty much now
[06:19] <davecheney> need to get into the city for that meetup
[06:19] <menn0_> ok
[06:19] <menn0_> davecheney: that ensure-avail just finish and 3 state servers are up and "started"
[06:19] <menn0_> things aren't happy in the logs but removing that revision seems to have helped the immediate issue
[06:20] <menn0_> i'll send an email a bit later on
[06:20] <davecheney> menn0_: what do you think ?
[06:20] <davecheney> do you want to propose it ?
[06:20] <menn0_> I think I'll email people and wait for some feedback
[06:20] <davecheney> ok
[06:22] <menn0_> davecheney: update... so things have now settled down post "juju ensure-availability" and the env looks healthy
[06:22] <menn0_> I think it's probably that rev
[06:26] <davecheney> menn0_: my vote is to roll that rev back
[06:26] <davecheney> you have my LGTM if you want to land that change
[06:42] <voidspace> morning all
[06:48] <menn0_> voidspace: mornin'
[06:48]  * menn0_ is about to upgrade his router firmware to see if it helps his flaky link
[06:52] <voidspace> menn0_: morning :-)
[06:55] <dimitern> morning
[06:55] <voidspace> dimitern: morning
[07:18] <voidspace> m1k43l
[07:33] <voidspace> dimitern: ping
[07:33] <voidspace> dimitern: if a machine is "pending" (instance-id and agent-state for the unit) how do I tell what state it's actually in
[07:33] <voidspace> i.e. what it's waiting for / where it has got to
[07:34] <voidspace> dimitern: this is local provider, and I suspect it's downloading the lxc image
[07:35] <voidspace> but I'd like to *know*
[07:35] <dimitern> in a call, will get back to you sorry
[07:35] <voidspace> there's nothing of use in the logs
[07:35] <voidspace> dimitern: sure
[07:35] <voidspace> np
[07:35] <voidspace> will go make coffee
[07:35] <voidspace> maybe it just needs time
[07:35] <dimitern> 10x :)
[07:55] <dimitern> voidspace, i'm back; so to answer your question - "pending" means the machine agent haven't yet started (or at least haven't logged into the api to start the agent alive presence pinger)
[07:56] <voidspace> dimitern: right, and I suspect that the vm (in this case an lxc container is not up)
[07:56] <voidspace> dimitern: how do I *tell*
[07:56] <voidspace> dimitern: it's still pending
[07:56] <dimitern> voidspace, ah, debugging why an lxc container is not starting is fun :)
[07:56] <voidspace> is it even possible...
[07:57] <dimitern> voidspace, i'd try a couple of things: 1) set logging-config in env.yaml for that environment to <root>=DEBUG
[07:57] <voidspace> ok, cool
[07:57] <dimitern> voidspace, oops sorry, <root>=TRACE
[07:57] <voidspace> good start
[07:57] <voidspace> right
[07:57] <dimitern> voidspace, trace logs for all lxc ops should be in the MA log
[07:58] <jam1> dimitern: I rejoined juju-networking
[07:58] <dimitern> voidspace, then, you can check $ sudo lxc-ls --fancy on the machine to see if lxc is running
[07:58] <voidspace> so machine-1.log
[07:58] <jam1> voidspace: I think if you find things like "downloading lxc images" aren't in the logs, but are there under TRACE, we need to bump those up to DEBUG
[07:58] <jam1> at least, if not INFO
[07:58] <voidspace> ah, I was using lxc-ls but without sudo
[07:58] <dimitern> voidspace, and in /var/lib/lxc and /var/log/lxc (as root) you can find useful logs sometimes
[07:58] <jam1> something that might take 10 min should be at INFO level, certainly
[07:59] <jam1> though I think LXC itself downloads images outside of our control
[07:59] <voidspace> heh, lots of fun
[07:59] <voidspace> I *think* that's where it's stuck - but hard to tell
[07:59] <voidspace> ah, cool
[07:59] <voidspace> so lxc-ls --fancy
[08:00] <voidspace> tells me that the precise-template exists (which is how I was able to start a precise vm)
[08:00] <voidspace> but there's no trusty template
[08:00] <voidspace> so I assume (hope) that's still downloading
[08:00] <voidspace> precious little network activity though
[08:00] <voidspace> I will restart with trace logging
[08:15] <TheMue> mornign
[08:18] <voidspace> TheMue: morning
[08:19] <TheMue> voidspace: just seen you’re playing with lxc
[08:19] <voidspace> TheMue: heh
[08:19] <voidspace> TheMue: unavoidable, I'm working with local provider :-/
[08:19] <TheMue> voidspace: hehe
[08:20] <TheMue> voidspace: I’m in contact with Serge and Stéphane about IPv6 and LXC
[08:20] <voidspace> ah, cool
[08:39] <jam1> morning TheMue, welcome back
[08:39] <jam1> voidspace:
[08:39] <jam1> if you're restarting in the middel
[08:39] <jam1> then likely there are filesystem locks that are stale now
[08:46] <TheMue> jam1: morning to Nuremberg
[08:46]  * TheMue has to fix his client to do a better signaling
[09:00] <voidspace> jam1: so how would I check / resolve?
[09:00] <voidspace> jam1: a reboot in between should be sufficient to release locks, right
[09:00] <dimitern> voidspace, what are you seeing?
[09:01] <jam1> voidspace: no
[09:01] <voidspace> dimitern: machine never starts, no trusty template downloaded
[09:01] <jam1> voidspace: there is a directory that gets created as a lock, that persists
[09:01] <dimitern> voidspace, ah, bugger
[09:01] <jam1> so destroy-environment while it is held doesn't clean it up
[09:01] <voidspace> so that's probably the problem
[09:02] <jam1> voidspace: IIRC, there is a plugin "juju-clean" that nukes everything that needs nuking
[09:02] <dimitern> voidspace, I have a nifty little snippet to obliterate a local env + all lxc artifacts
[09:02] <voidspace> is this an lxc lock or a juju lock?
[09:02] <jam1> I've found it in the past using debugging and finding the file it was waiting for and selectively deleting stuff
[09:02] <voidspace> dimitern: cool
[09:02] <jam1> voidspace: creation of the "precise-template" or trusty is a juju lock
[09:02] <dimitern> voidspace, http://blog.naydenov.net/2014/03/remove-juju-local-environment-cleanly/ - give it a try to see if it'll help, or just run some of the steps
[09:03] <jam1> voidspace: https://github.com/juju/plugins
[09:03] <jam1> dimitern: ^^
[09:03] <jam1> juju-clean is in there, IIRC
[09:03] <voidspace> jam1: thanks, awesome
[09:04] <jam1> its a pretty big hammer
[09:04] <jam1> and I'd like us to never need it, so file bugs when you do need it
[09:04] <jam1> I wish it would report what it actually had to clean up, but anyway
[09:10] <dimitern> :) nice
[09:11] <dimitern> thanks jam1
[09:21] <voidspace> lunch
[09:49] <voidspace> jam1: the juju clean plugin solved my problem and unblocked me.
[09:49] <voidspace> I don't think I can usefully file a bug though as I don't know what it solved :-)
[09:50] <voidspace> I suspect that it was stale filesystem locks from a failed / stalled template download due to my crappy network
[09:50] <voidspace> but I don't know
[09:50] <voidspace> and now I have new and weirder issues, but at least the lxc container starts ok and I have both precise and trusty templates
[09:53] <dimitern> voidspace, it might be the templates weren't downloaded properly
[09:53] <voidspace> dimitern: right
[09:54] <voidspace> now I have working containers, but install hooks seem to fail consistently - but succeed when retried
[09:54] <voidspace> digging in
[09:54] <dimitern> voidspace, can you paste some logs?
[09:55] <dimitern> from the failing unit
[09:55] <voidspace> dimitern: in a bit, I just blew everything away to try again :-)
[09:55] <dimitern> :) alright
[09:55] <voidspace> the failure mode is consistent
[09:55] <dimitern> voidspace, which charm are you trying?
[09:56] <voidspace> mmand "lsmod | grep -q 8021q || modprobe 8021q" failed
[09:56] <voidspace> command "lsmod | grep -q 8021q || modprobe 8021q" failed
[09:56] <dimitern> voidspace, right!
[09:56] <voidspace> machine-1: 2014-08-06 09:19:28 ERROR juju.worker runner.go:219 exited "networker": command "lsmod | grep -q 8021q || modprobe 8021q" failed (code: 1, stdout: , stderr: modprobe: ERROR: ../libkmod/libkmod.c:556 kmod_search_moddep() could not open moddep file '/lib/modules/3.13.0-32-generic/modules.dep.bin'
[09:56] <dimitern> voidspace, somebody reported that recently
[09:57] <voidspace> dimitern: that's the mysql one
[09:57] <voidspace> dimitern: I reported it yesterday
[09:57] <dimitern> voidspace, :) ah
[09:57] <dimitern> voidspace, the problem with this could be solved if you modprobe 8021q on the host before starting the container, hopefully
[09:57] <voidspace> ah
[09:57] <voidspace> maybe
[09:58] <voidspace> modprobe is looking in the wrong place inside the container
[09:58] <voidspace> it's using the host path
[09:58] <voidspace> so maybe that would solve it
[09:58] <voidspace> dimitern: juju resolved --retry
[09:58] <voidspace> dimitern: seems to consistently fix it
[09:58] <dimitern> voidspace, from inside the container, you can't modprobe stuff, but if it was done on the host, lsmod will list it - that's the intention of the script
[09:59] <voidspace> dimitern: ok
[09:59] <voidspace> so maybe that's fixed
[09:59] <voidspace> just waiting for wordpress to come up so I can test the relation
[09:59] <dimitern> voidspace, i think I see the problem
[10:00] <voidspace> dimitern: do you want me to file a bug for this?
[10:00] <voidspace> in the meantime
[10:00] <voidspace> moar coffeez
[10:00] <dimitern> voidspace, the hook is not really failing, maybe just the uniter (or the whole unit agent) gets killed and restarted, but because the networker already run the lsmod script, retry "solves" it
[10:00] <voidspace> heh
[10:01] <voidspace> sounds plausible
[10:01] <dimitern> voidspace, yes, please, and attach the unit + machine logs
[10:47] <dimitern> voidspace, standup?
[10:47] <voidspace> dimitern: on my way
[10:48] <voidspace> dimitern: it's finally letting me in
[10:48] <voidspace> my crappy network
[10:52] <dimitern> voidspace, rejoin?
[10:57] <perrito666> so there are bad luck days and then there are days where you come to work on a borrowed office and forget the power brick for the computer....
[11:09] <rogpeppe1> any chance of a review of a charm package PR, please? https://github.com/juju/charm/pull/36
[11:12] <rogpeppe1> perrito666: :-(
[11:30] <perrito666> https://github.com/juju/utils/pull/18
[11:30] <perrito666> mm, menno and dave left already
[11:40] <TheMue> perrito666: +1
[11:41] <perrito666> TheMue: thanks, but for what exactly?
[11:41] <TheMue> perrito666: your PR
[11:41] <TheMue> ;)
[11:41] <perrito666> ah lol sorry
[11:42] <perrito666> thank you
[11:42] <TheMue> perrito666: yw
[11:43] <TheMue> dimitern: btw, will ping you a bit later. a friend just called and asked if he can grab a cup of coffee :)
[11:43] <dimitern> TheMue, no worries :)
[11:43] <perrito666> nooo, I just discovered the coolest thing from github
[11:44] <TheMue> dimitern: I’ll also invite you to the current doc/collection of notes on Google Docs
[11:44] <perrito666> you can convert a pr into a patch or diff
[11:44] <perrito666> by just adding .diff or .patch to the pr
[11:51] <dimitern> TheMue, sure, can you send me a link?
[11:52] <TheMue> dimitern: you should have received the google mail
[11:52] <dimitern> TheMue, ah, I've just seen it, thanks!
[11:55]  * TheMue is afk
[11:58] <voidspace>  dimitern: I filed that bug by the way https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1353443
[11:58] <voidspace> tasdomas: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1353443
[11:59] <dimitern> voidspace, cheers!
[12:08] <voidspace> dimitern: and I can confirm, with this branch I can use local provider and it doesn't kill my networking
[12:08] <voidspace> https://github.com/voidspace/juju/tree/network-interfaces
[12:08] <voidspace> dimitern: I need to work on tests, and myabe prettify it - but confirmation that this works for MAAS would be good
[12:16] <dimitern> voidspace, great! I'll get to it soon to test on MAAS
[12:17] <voidspace> dimitern: cool, let me know please
[12:17] <dimitern> voidspace, will do
[12:34] <natefinch> voidspace: huzzah for not killing networking
[12:35] <voidspace> natefinch: heh, well hopefully this fix works for MAAS
[12:35] <voidspace> natefinch: but yeah, the fix is basically "don't screw with networking on the local provider host"
[12:39] <perrito666> natefinch: lol
[12:39]  * perrito666 tries menn0 and davechenneys patch without success
[12:39] <perrito666> sinzui: any clue when will that land on jenkins?
[12:41] <sinzui> perrito666, I see something being tested now http://juju-ci.vapour.ws:8080/
[12:42] <sinzui> perrito666, wallyworld's  maas-hostname-address is being tested now
[12:42] <voidspace> natefinch: ping
[12:43] <natefinch> voidspace: what's up?
[12:52] <perrito666> I did not understand if menn0s patch actually fixes the bug :|
[12:55] <wwitzel3> rogpeppe1: ping
[12:55] <rogpeppe1> wwitzel3: pong
[12:56] <wwitzel3> rogpeppe1: re your mailing list reply .. what collection in mongo do I need to put the machine-0 peer group member?
[12:57]  * rogpeppe1 looks
[12:57] <wwitzel3> rogpeppe1: well, I guess I could look at what collection the code is reading from ..
[12:57] <wwitzel3> rogpeppe1: no point in make you do my foot work :P
[12:57] <rogpeppe1> wwitzel3: :-)
[12:57] <wwitzel3> rogpeppe1: was just checking if you knew without looking :)
[12:58] <rogpeppe1> wwitzel3: i can never remember state collection names...
[12:58] <rogpeppe1> wwitzel3: you'll need to know the field names too of course
[12:59] <jam1> dimitern: hey, you brought up that we actually get 2 IPv6 addresses as the common case, can you clarify what those are?
[12:59] <jam1> I *think* they are (1) Link Local (which isn't really routable from the outside and (2) Actually the routable one
[12:59] <jam1> is that true?
[13:00] <jam1> in which case, we can really just ignore (1), and we are down to just one IPv6 address
[13:00] <dimitern> jam1, true
[13:01] <jam1> dimitern: and LinkLocal is a known IPv6 prefix, right? So it is trivial to filter out in the instance poller
[13:02] <dimitern> jam1, the link-local is required by the IPv6 spec to exist; obviously ::1 will exist as well, and a private (or Unique Local Address in IPv6 terms) might be there or not (in the latter case we can't usefully do anything ofc)
[13:02] <dimitern> jam1, it is, and we're actually doing that already
[13:02] <jam1> dimitern: can we usefully detect that it is a "private" address that we can't make use of ?
[13:03] <natefinch> sinzui: do we have a tag for "blocks CI"?  if not, can we make one?
[13:03] <dimitern> jam1, so my comment was more about "we need to be aware of this, if we're aiming to model and display all addresses"
[13:03] <dimitern> jam1, if you refer to a ULA - no, we can't unless we try
[13:04] <sinzui> natefinch, "ci regression" are the tags in combination
[13:04] <dimitern> jam1, otherwise, any valid IPv6 can be usable locally in the cloud of course
[13:07] <natefinch> sinzui: how do I search for two tags at the same time?
[13:08] <natefinch> nevermind, I see the tags field in advanced search
[13:09] <natefinch> sinzui: there's a bug marked medium that is tagged ci regression.... I presume that's not blocking CI
[13:10] <natefinch> http://goo.gl/URSQcV
[13:10] <sinzui> natefinch, advance search has an option for both, but right only triaged and inprogress critical ci regressions block
[13:12] <sinzui> natefinch, This is the smallest query https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.importance%3Alist=CRITICAL&field.tag=ci+regression+&field.tags_combinator=ALL
[13:13] <abentley> sinzui: I'm catching up on email now.  It seems a fair few things happened when I was gone.  Should we have a chat?
[13:13] <sinzui> abentley, I cannot now
[13:14] <sinzui> abentley, I would like to chat, maybe I can steal away from a meeting
[13:15] <abentley> sinzui: Sure.  I'm around all day.
[13:16] <natefinch> sinzui: thanks for the link
[13:18] <sinzui> natefinch, I will change reports.vapour.ws to show that information. Lp requires separate queries for trunk and stable
[13:18] <perrito666> sinzui: natefinch arosales I believe one of you is the person who can give me azure credentials
[13:18] <sinzui> perrito666, arosales can link your azure account to the canonical account. I can help you run tests as CI
[13:19]  * perrito666 thinks he does not have an azure account at all
[13:19] <natefinch> perrito666: I used to have an azure account, but then my last company decided to stop paying for my MSDN subscription 10 months after I left.  I guess they don't love me any more.
[13:20] <sinzui> perrito666, you have mail
[13:21] <perrito666> sinzui: yes I do :p
[13:21] <sinzui> natefinch, you can read environments.yaml in cloud-city to run as CI
[13:27] <natefinch> sinzui: thanks
[13:31] <perrito666> sinzui: hoy likely am I to break things with the data you just passed to me?
[13:36] <natefinch> wwitzel3:  let's do our 1:1 after the standup, if that's ok?
[13:36] <wwitzel3> natefinch: that's fine
[14:01] <natefinch> mup: help
[14:01] <mup> natefinch: Run "help <cmdname>" for details on: bug, echo, help, infer, poke, run, sendraw, sms
[14:01] <natefinch> mup: help sms
[14:01] <mup> natefinch: sms <nick> <message ...> — Sends an SMS message.
[14:01] <mup> natefinch: The configured LDAP directory is queried for a person with the provided IRC nick ("mozillaNickname") and a phone ("mobile") in international format (+NN...). The message sender must also be registered in the LDAP directory with the IRC nick in use.
[14:02] <natefinch> mup help poke
[14:02] <natefinch> mup: help poke
[14:02] <mup> natefinch: poke <query ...> — Searches people in the LDAP directory.
[14:02] <mup> natefinch: The provided query will be searched for as an exact IRC nick ("mozillaNickname") or part of a name ("cn").
[14:02] <natefinch> mup: poke Finch
[14:02] <mup> natefinch: Plugin "ldap" is not enabled here.
[14:02] <natefinch> doh
[14:03] <natefinch> mup: help infer
[14:03] <mup> natefinch: infer [-all] <query ...> — Queries the WolframAlpha engine.
[14:03] <mup> natefinch: If -all is provided, all known information about the query is displayed rather than just the primary results.
[14:03] <natefinch> mup: infer time
[14:03] <mup> natefinch: 10:03:44 am EDT Wednesday, August 6, 2014.
[14:05] <natefinch> mup: sms natefinch boo!
[14:05] <mup> natefinch: Plugin "aql" is not enabled here.
[14:11] <ericsnow> natefinch: getting cozy with mup, eh?
[14:12] <ericsnow> :)
[14:14] <natefinch> ericsnow: just read gustavo's email, so figured I'd try it out.  Evidently it's good I did.
[14:14] <ericsnow> natefinch: plugins are overrated <wink>
[14:27] <dpb1> Hi -- when juju clones an LXC template I notice the cloud-init gets run again.  How does that happen?
[14:28] <ericsnow> here's a fix for (at least most of, if not all of) issue #1351019: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/476
[14:28] <wwitzel3> sinzui: I noticed that manual for precise and trusty had clean runs this morning, is bug #1347715 still an issue?
[14:38] <sinzui> wwitzel3, Those were 1.20
[14:39] <sinzui> wwitzel3, http://juju-ci.vapour.ws:8080/job/manual-deploy-precise-amd64/ shows that the blues are 1.20 and the reds are master
[14:39]  * sinzui adds task to make reports/jenkins be clear about what is under test
[14:40] <wwitzel3> sinzui: ahh ok, I'm having trouble replicating the error locally with master. I manually started up an EC2 instance on AWS, configured the manual provider with its host, then I've done juju bootstrap .. and I'm not getting any of the SSH errors.
[14:43] <sinzui> wwitzel3, Have you set authorized-keys or authorized-key-path. CI is always stating which key to use
[14:44]  * sinzui thinks about the test
[14:45] <dimitern> voidspace, so far my testing with the local provider and your branch looks fine (had some trouble convincing it to run at all at first)
[14:45] <wwitzel3> sinzui: no, I will set that in the config and try again .. does it set both?
[14:46] <dimitern> voidspace, unfortunately, I won't be able to do the MAAS test today, as I'll need to go out soon, but I'll do it tomorrow morning, if that's ok
[14:49] <dimitern> voidspace, it seems the install hook errors you're getting are happening to me as well, and in 2 cases: 1) when trying parallel deployments (i.e. deploy wordpress, then deploy mysql without waiting the first to install and start), 2) with each lxc container after the first one
[14:51] <dimitern> both of these are related to the lxc filesystem cloning or whatever, due to "Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?" (i.e. apt-get fails on one container, because the lock is held by another container running apt-get or the host itself)
[14:52] <mattyw> hi folks, is someone able to answer some questions about MESS for me?
[14:52] <jrwren> dimitern: each container should have its own /var/lib/dpkg, shouldn't it?
[14:53] <dimitern> jrwren, I've guessed so, but something apparently changed recently
[14:54] <dimitern> ..and it's looks troubling
[14:59] <sinzui> wwitzel3, CI ran something like this to create the instance
[14:59] <sinzui> euca-run-instances -k id_rsa -t m1.large -g my-manual-test ami-36aa4d5e
[14:59] <mattyw> rogpeppe1, ping?
[14:59] <sinzui> wwitzel3, ^ change id_rsa to the key you have in ec2. That might help reproduce the ec2 setup
[15:01] <bodie_> pinging fwereade re his concerns on pr 415 -- addressed or commented
[15:06] <wwitzel3> sinzui: ok, thanks
[15:12] <voidspace> dimitern: how odd
[15:12] <voidspace> dimitern: are you seeing that on trunk?
[15:12] <voidspace> dimitern: or with my branch
[15:12] <voidspace> it seems unlikely that my branch causes that
[15:12] <natefinch> wwitzel3: ericsnow: perrito666:  exceedingly late standup?
[15:13] <wwitzel3> natefinch: oops, sorry
[15:13] <ericsnow> natefinch: hangouts is flaking out on me
[15:13] <wwitzel3> omw
[15:13] <perrito666> natefinch: sorry going there
[15:13] <jam1> mgz: poke
[15:13] <voidspace> dimitern: I have to go out soon as well (~20minutes), but I'll be working again later tonight
[15:14] <dimitern> voidspace, I guess trunk is the same as your branch in this case (no local-provider-specific lxc changes); maybe it's just my env config
[15:14] <voidspace> dimitern: maybe - I don't think that's the *same* error I was seeing
[15:15] <rogpeppe1> mattyw: pong
[15:18] <mattyw> rogpeppe1, do you know much about the potential multi environment state server stuff? I have a specific question about how it might or might not affect the agent on the state server
[15:19] <rogpeppe1> mattyw: some, but i'm not directly involved
[15:19] <mattyw> rogpeppe1, do you know who is?
[15:19] <rogpeppe1> mattyw: in the implementation of the multi-tenant state server
[15:19] <rogpeppe1> mattyw: no, sorry
[15:20] <voidspace> mattyw: I believe that would be thumper's team
[15:20] <voidspace> mattyw: natefinch was involved in the planning of that feature - but has now passed it on I believe
[15:20] <mattyw> voidspace, ok great thanks
[15:21] <mattyw> rogpeppe1, multi tenant is where the state server might be split across machines?
[15:21] <rogpeppe1> mattyw: no, where a single state server can serve several environments
[15:22] <rogpeppe1> mattyw: the state server itself can always be split over multiple machines (HA)
[15:22] <rogpeppe1> pwd
[15:22] <mattyw> rogpeppe1, that's what I was going to ask - I thought it was the same as ha
[15:22] <voidspace> rogpeppe1: C:\Documents and Settings
[15:22] <rogpeppe1> mattyw: nope. entirely orthogonal.
[15:22] <rogpeppe1> rofl
[15:22] <alexisb> natefinch, ping
[15:22] <mattyw> voidspace, nice
[15:23] <natefinch> alexisb: what is up, yo?
[15:24] <natefinch> ericsnow: reboot, it always fixes things (or deletes your networking config.... one of those two)
[15:24] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: did you try turning it off and back on again? ;)
[15:24] <ericsnow> natefinch: wwitzel3: gee, thanks ;)
[15:46] <fwereade> natefinch, ping
[15:47] <fwereade> natefinch, do you have a rough developer-weeks estimate for remaining time on backup/restore
[15:48] <perrito666> fwereade: he is afk
[15:56] <natefinch> back
[16:15] <natefinch> wwitzel3: should I reassign the manual provider bug to you?
[16:17] <jcw4> I have a couple of minor pull requests waiting to land that are just test changes that will isolate a handful of tests from the users .bashrc better
[16:18] <jcw4> Any objections to me JFDI'ing those PR's since they're approved and they would only contribute to more stable tests, and don't change non-test code?
[16:19] <natefinch> jcw4: show me the PRs?
[16:19] <jcw4> natefinch: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/450
[16:20] <jcw4> natefinch: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/454
[16:21] <jcw4> natefinch: re-reading 450 it does change non-test code
[16:21] <jcw4> so I'm fine with that one waiting...
[16:22] <perrito666> aghh lost sinzui again
[16:27] <mgz> jcw4: I'm sending pr454 through now
[16:27] <jcw4> mgz: tx!
[16:27] <mgz> 450 also seems fine
[16:27] <wwitzel3> natefinch: I will pick it up, I'm in there now anyway
[16:28] <jcw4> yeah trivial change too.  Thanks mgz and natefinch
[16:28] <wwitzel3> though I can't replicate it even using the euca command sinzui gave me.
[16:32] <perrito666> bbl ppl
[17:47] <mattyw> calling it a day folks, night!
[18:05] <natefinch> phew... electrician and bee inspector showed up at the same time
[18:06] <mgz> electric bees!
[18:07] <natefinch> I do have an electric fence around the bees, but that's just coincidental :)
[19:31] <perrito666> natefinch: what is a bee inspector_
[19:32]  * perrito666 has the strangest bug no browser will start
[19:32] <wwitzel3> perrito666: I've had that before
[19:32] <wwitzel3> perrito666: I never figured it out, just ended up logout/login
[19:33] <perrito666> lol if I tell you what it is you will laugh at me
[19:33] <perrito666> browsers where starting up in the external screen and the monitor was off
[19:34] <wwitzel3> lol
[19:34] <wwitzel3> you are right
[19:35] <natefinch> haha
[19:35] <natefinch> I've had that happen
[19:35] <natefinch> What's worse is when they open up completely off the screen top or bottom because you've changed resolutions or something
[19:36] <perrito666> natefinch: I use all external screen apps full screen to avoid that
[19:36] <perrito666> (as in f11)
[19:36] <natefinch> perrito666: a bee inspector is someone paid by the state to go around to all the known beehives in his county and check them for disease, mites, etc.
[19:37] <perrito666> wow you guys really have the state in your lives, our state only takes money and leaves us alone
[19:42] <natefinch> perrito666: not all states in the US have inspectors, but some do.  Bees are pretty important for agriculture, so we try to make sure some idiot doesn't spread disease and screw everything up
[19:45] <perrito666> natefinch: that makes sense, I dont think we have control for bees here, at least not for small producers
[19:55] <perrito666> sinzui: are you around?
[20:04] <natefinch> mup: infer time in Nuremburg
[20:04] <mup> natefinch: Cannot infer much out of this. :-(
[20:04] <wwitzel3> lol
[20:04] <natefinch> hrmph
[20:05] <natefinch> mup: infer time
[20:05] <mup> natefinch: 4:05:16 pm EDT Wednesday, August 6, 2014.
[20:05] <natefinch> mup: infer time in nuremburg, germany
[20:05] <mup> natefinch: Cannot infer much out of this. :-(
[20:05] <natefinch> dang
[20:05] <jcw4> mup: infer time UTC+0200
[20:05] <mup> jcw4: 10:05:56 pm GMT+2 Wednesday, August 6, 2014.
[20:06] <natefinch> it worked for gustavo in his email :/
[20:06] <jcw4> teh suk
[20:06] <natefinch> mup: infer timezone in nuremburg
[20:06] <mup> natefinch: Cannot infer much out of this. :-(
[20:06] <niemeyer> mup: infer time in nurenbERG
[20:06] <mup> niemeyer: 10:06:37 pm CEST Wednesday, August 6, 2014.
[20:06] <natefinch> agg frig
[20:06] <jcw4> s/m/n s/u/e/
[20:07] <natefinch> niemeyer: spelling gets me every time
[20:09] <natefinch> google says it's nuremberg
[20:09] <natefinch> anyway
[20:11] <niemeyer> Not burg
[20:12] <natefinch> yep
[20:12] <jcw4> niemeyer: so that's mountain not city right?
[20:13] <niemeyer> jcw4: What is?
[20:13] <jcw4> berg vs. burg
[20:13] <niemeyer> Good question, I don't know, but I'm curious now
[20:13] <jcw4> niemeyer: at least that's the difference in afrikaans
[20:13] <niemeyer> The real city name is actually Nürnberg
[20:13] <natefinch> mup: infer time in Nürnberg
[20:14] <mup> natefinch: Cannot infer much out of this. :-(
[20:14] <natefinch> boo
[20:14] <jcw4> heh
[20:14] <niemeyer> natefinch: Ask in German
[20:14] <jcw4> what does mup use? google?
[20:14] <natefinch> rofl
[20:14] <niemeyer> mup: help infer
[20:14] <mup> niemeyer: infer [-all] <query ...> — Queries the WolframAlpha engine.
[20:14] <mup> niemeyer: If -all is provided, all known information about the query is displayed rather than just the primary results.
[20:14] <jcw4> mup: infer -all berg vs. burg
[20:14] <mup> jcw4: Distances: distance flight time, Berg, Jamtland, Sweden to Burg 729 miles 1 hour 20 minutes, (assuming direct flight path at 550 mph) — Demographics: Berg, Jamtland, Sweden Burg, Saxony-Anhalt, Germany, population 8175 people 24364 people.
[20:14] <mup> jcw4:  — Geographic properties: Berg, Jamtland, Sweden Burg, area 2384 mi^2 (square miles), average elevation 124.7 feet.
[20:14] <natefinch> niemeyer: my german is umm.... somewhat rusty
[20:14] <jcw4> lol
[20:15] <perrito666> mup: folgern Zeit in Nürnberg
[20:15] <mup> perrito666: In-com-pre-hen-si-ble-ness.
[20:15] <natefinch> rofl
[20:15] <perrito666> mup: infer Zeit in Nürnberg
[20:15] <mup> perrito666: Cannot infer much out of this. :-(
[20:16] <jcw4> mup: was ist die ziet in Nürnberg
[20:16] <mup> jcw4: Roses are red, violets are blue, and I don't understand what you just said.
[20:16] <natefinch> mup: infer -all Nuremberg
[20:16] <mup> natefinch: Population: city population 505664 people (country rank: 14th) (2010 estimate).
[20:18] <katco> niemeyer: hey, while you're here. where will the goamz lib live on github?
[20:18] <katco> niemeyer: also, hello :)
[20:19] <niemeyer> katco: Hey :)
[20:19] <niemeyer> katco: I don't really know yet
[20:19] <natefinch> oh hey, while people are paying attention, how do you specify an empty map in yaml?  Google is failing me.
[20:20] <katco> niemeyer: ok no worries. we're just about wrapping up changes, so it would be nice to have a home for the little guy somewhat soon, but we can work around it if not :)
[20:21] <jcw4> mup: infer -all all your base
[20:21] <mup> jcw4: ...are belong to us., (according to the video game Zero Wing).
[20:21] <katco> mup: infer \b
[20:21] <mup> katco: Cannot infer much out of this. :-(
[20:22] <katco> good job, mup :)
[20:22] <jcw4> hehe
[20:22] <jcw4> mup: infer how to represent an empty map in yaml?
[20:22] <katco> haha
[20:22] <mup> jcw4: Cannot infer much out of this. :-(
[20:22] <katco> there we go
[20:22] <katco> mup: help
[20:22] <mup> katco: Run "help <cmdname>" for details on: bug, echo, help, infer, poke, run, sendraw, sms
[20:23] <jcw4> oooh sms
[20:23] <katco> mup: help poke
[20:23] <mup> katco: poke <query ...> — Searches people in the LDAP directory.
[20:23] <mup> katco: The provided query will be searched for as an exact IRC nick ("mozillaNickname") or part of a name ("cn").
[20:23] <katco> mup: poke katco-
[20:23] <mup> katco: Plugin "ldap" is not enabled here.
[20:23] <natefinch> poke and sms don't work on freenode
[20:23] <katco> ah
[20:24]  * natefinch made that mistake this morning :)
[20:24] <katco> natefinch: hey new site looks nice
[20:24] <katco> mup: help sendraw
[20:24] <mup> katco: sendraw [-account=<string>] <text ...> — Sends the provided text as a raw IRC protocol message.
[20:24] <mup> katco: If an account name is not provided, it defaults to the current one.
[20:24] <perrito666> sinzui: ping me when you are around
[20:25] <natefinch> katco: thanks... Hugo is pretty cool, and since it's in Go, I can actually understand the code ;)
[20:25] <katco> natefinch: lol
[20:26] <katco> i have been thinking about switching to a static based site
[20:26] <natefinch> katco: it's mostly the jekyll theme, ported to Hugo's format, and tweaked slightly by me.  I have near zero web dev / design ability... but I am really good at changing margins and colors
[20:26] <katco> just using blogger right now
[20:26] <katco> lol
[20:27] <natefinch> er... the "hyde" jekyll theme
[20:27] <katco> http://stchuxderbychix.appspot.com/ <-- old website i did in Go for my derby team. not using best practices though.
[20:27] <natefinch> katco: highly recommend Hugo.  It's pretty easy to use, since it's all Go templates and pretty well thought out.
[20:28] <natefinch> katco: I actually asked Steven Francia to be a committer on the repo so I could help fix bugs and land PRs and stuff
[20:28] <natefinch> also, free hosting on github is pretty sweet
[20:28] <katco> yeah haha
[20:28] <katco> google app engine is probably better free hosting ;)
[20:28] <katco> geographical redundancy for my dinky blog!
[20:28] <natefinch> katco: that site looks 100 times better than anything I could produce.  Nice thing about a blog is that it's mostly text :)
[20:29] <katco> natefinch: i was pretty proud of it. it aggregates data from different web services
[20:29] <natefinch> Oh yeah, I remember you mentioning that. Pretty cool.
[20:30] <katco> it's funny that it's a dead site, but it still has some current info
[20:30] <katco> e.g. next bout looks like
[20:31] <natefinch> katco: can GAE easily host a static site?  I like that I don't have to do anything but git push to github to update my site.
[20:31] <katco> natefinch: yeah. git push is way easier, but they have a python script that pushes things up for you
[20:31] <katco> but yeah, does static content quite nicely actually
[20:31] <katco> and since under some huge amount of traffic is free, it's essentially free hosting :p
[20:32] <katco> b/c it was designed for actual applications
[20:32] <katco> but you can also run some live go code on there if you want a bit of dynamic ability. python, java, i think php now
[20:33] <natefinch> yeah, that's cool
[20:34] <katco> of course i don't know why anyone would want to use python /duck
[20:35]  * natefinch notes katco doesn't even need to mention java or php because.... *shudder*
[20:35] <katco> haha
[20:35] <katco> java... ok i can do that. php... just... no. never again.
[20:35] <katco> i wrote a CMS in php back in the early 00's. before it had support for classes.
[20:35] <natefinch> I've never done PHP.   Java I've done.  It's ok.
[20:36] <natefinch> gotta go in  a sec
[20:36] <katco> java is ok albeit verbose. php to me is design by accident
[20:36] <perrito666> there is this cool tool called nikola which generates your whole website which includes comments support, paging and some other goodies from rest
[20:37] <natefinch> perrito666: hugo does that from markdown and Go templates
[20:37] <natefinch> http://hugo.spf13.com/
[20:37] <natefinch> ok, gotta go
[21:06] <ericsnow> could anyone spare a few minutes for a review (the patch is small)? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/476
[21:19] <menn0> waigani: morning
[21:19] <perrito666> menn0: morning
[21:19] <perrito666> good findings
[21:19] <menn0> perrito666: howdy
[21:19] <waigani> menn0: morning
[21:19] <menn0> yeah
[21:19] <menn0> it took all day :)
[21:20] <menn0> but I learned a lot along the way
[21:20] <waigani> perrito666: morning :)
[21:20] <waigani> menn0: what took all day?
[21:20] <menn0> figuring out the HA problem
[21:20] <perrito666> menn0: you make me feel better, i was al eeffing day setting those things and failing
[21:20] <waigani> menn0: you solved it?
[21:21] <menn0> well I found the commit that caused the problem and reverted it
[21:21] <menn0> although, I've seen that the merge failed
[21:21] <menn0> more to look at ...
[21:21] <waigani> ah yeah, just saw your PR - nice work man!
[21:22] <menn0> I need to take care of something here (screaming kids)
[21:22] <menn0> back in a bit
[21:22] <perrito666> menn0: your revert should break the build somewhere else though
[21:53] <menn0> perrito666: sorry.
[21:53] <menn0> perrito666: yeah I feared that it might
[21:53] <perrito666> menn0: I was waiting on it to merge
[21:54] <menn0> perrito666: I will try to understand the Safe.J change some more
[21:54] <perrito666> but reading that commits message it seems to be fixing a bug in newer versions of juju
[21:54] <menn0> new versions of mongo right?
[21:54] <perrito666> well apparently setting safe.j was ok even though you had no journal set
[21:54] <perrito666> menn0: yes
[21:55] <perrito666> but since 2....6? i think that is no longer true
[21:57] <menn0> well before doing anything else I'm trying the merge again because the way it failed is one of the errors we see regularly in test runs
[22:27] <perrito666> menn0: your changes got merged
[22:28] <perrito666> please have an eye on jenkins
[22:28] <menn0> perrito666: \o/
[22:28] <menn0> perrito666: what do you mean: "please have an eye on jenkins"
[22:29] <perrito666> menn0: there are a couple of CI jobs linked on the ticket
[22:29] <perrito666> make sure they pass when they test your rev
[22:29] <menn0> perrito666: right
[22:29] <menn0> perrito666: I'm also running the CI test you were testing with (test_recovery.py --ha) manually now
[22:30] <menn0> perrito666: so far it's already getting further than it did before
[22:30] <menn0> perrito666: thanks for those instructions btw. they help a lot.
[22:30] <perrito666> menn0: I am glad
[22:31] <menn0> I didn't end up doing the custom stream creation though
[22:31] <menn0> I hacked up the test helpers a bit ...
[22:36] <perrito666> heh
[22:51] <menn0> perrito666: hooray! test_recovery.py --ha passes
[23:03] <ericsnow> menn0: \o/
[23:08] <perrito666> sweet
[23:08] <perrito666> now we need to bug curtis to see if it passes a few times
[23:22] <menn0> perrito666: Curtis knows
[23:34] <waigani> menn0: I'm happy to do some reviewing if that helps
[23:34] <menn0> waigani: that would be awesome
[23:35] <waigani> menn0: okay - you owe me a beer ;)
[23:35] <menn0> waigani: done!
[23:35] <menn0> waigani: we should coordinate to make sure we don't end up overlapping too much
[23:36] <waigani> menn0: on that point I think you can actually assign a reviewer to a PR
[23:37] <menn0> waigani: ok cool. I didn't know that.
[23:37] <menn0> let's do that.


[11:33] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:35] <iomari891> greetings, is it possible to update kde gear to 23.08? I'm on kubuntu 23.04.
[12:40] <BluesKaj> iomari891, there is no Kubuntu 23.08. The next release 23.10. If you have upgraded your 23.04 from default sources within the last week or so then your KDE desktop is probly up to date.
[12:41] <diogenes_Vx15> BluesKaj, it's not about the distro :)
[12:41] <diogenes_Vx15> https://kde.org/announcements/gear/23.08.0/
[12:42] <iomari891> BluesKaj: no kubunut, kde gear.
[12:42] <iomari891> not Kubuntu, KDE GEar
[12:44] <BluesKaj> I reckon #kde chat would be the place to ask iomari891
[12:46] <iomari891> BluesKaj: ok, thanks