[10:26] <furycd001> Hey.. Just wondering if there is any sort of todo list like plugin for xfce4-panel :?
[11:56] <gnrp> furycd001: todo for what?
[11:58] <furycd001> Like a general todo list that I can add things to & then check off whenever completed....
[14:18] <JohnDVD> p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }
[14:18] <JohnDVD> FNsggzs16!
[14:18] <JohnDVD> alökdjfklöa
[14:19] <JohnDVD> Hi
[14:21] <JohnDVD> I'm using xfce4 and multiple opened programs are grouped in its taskbar. How can I avoid that behaviour?
[14:24] <sublevel> I saw that the other day,  checking
[14:24] <sublevel> Panel preferences, Items tab
[14:24] <sublevel> select Window Buttons then the edit button to the right
[14:30] <JohnDVD> Thank you very much. :)
[14:30] <JohnDVD> It Works
[18:53] <talin> spello. has anyone found a way to circumvent the problem with being unable to recover from the screensaver (blank screen instead of login prompt) on 18.04 and 19.04?
[18:53] <talin> supposedly removing lightdm and installing e.g. gnome-screensaver instead should work, but it does nothing in my case
[18:58] <sublevel> Wasn't it light-locker, not lightdm that was suggested to remove?
[18:59] <sublevel> I didn't try that but was successful with making the .conf in comment #24 here: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1801609
[19:05] <sublevel> Actually the version in comment #30,  if you don't have intel graphics I don't know if you can use this method
[19:26] <talin> sublevel: oops, you are right, light-locker.
[19:38] <xubuntu9w> Hello! I hope this is the right place to ask for help. I am very new to Xubuntu, and I love it. However, the laptop won't run on battery despite it recognizing it, charging it and it is fully charged. The battery is entirely new from the factory (as I first thought this was a issue with an old battery I bought a new one, but the problem persists).
[19:38] <xubuntu9w> Thank you!
[19:38] <xubuntu9w> Running 18.04
[19:40] <xubuntu9w> I have tried TLP too...
[19:40] <brainwash> xubuntu9w: what does "won't run" mean in this context?
[19:41] <xubuntu9w> hi and thank you! well, it shuts down immediately whenever it isn't connected to the AC adapter/power brick
[19:41] <brainwash> and you think this is related to Xubuntu?
[19:42] <xubuntu9w> Could it be? The battery is brand new, so I figured it might be a software related issue
[19:43] <brainwash> I would check if the same thing happens while you have the BIOS/UEFI menu open
[19:44] <brainwash> so, while Xubuntu is not loaded yet
[19:45] <xubuntu9w> You mean, boot into BIOS menu, then unplug and see if it runs on battery then? Sure, I can give it a try, thanks
[19:45] <brainwash> exactly
[19:45] <xubuntu9w> (y)
[19:46] <xubuntu9w> And if the problem persists?
[19:46] <brainwash> then it has to be a hardware issue
[19:46] <xubuntu9w> OK gotcha! Is there anything I should do while in BIOS, given that it can run on battery then?
[19:47] <brainwash> if you trigger a shutdown via the session menu in Xubuntu, then it should show you a brief shutdown screen
[19:47] <brainwash> and not immediately power off the system
[19:48] <brainwash> no idea if there is anything worth to check in the BIOS
[19:48] <xubuntu9w> Alright, I will give it a go
[19:48] <xubuntu9w> Have a nice Friday (or Saturday, depending on where you are in the world)!


[00:17] <Eickmeyer> mwhudson: Indeed. Video makes the task ubuntustudio-video, but I guess snaps aren't taken into account if they're in anything except desktop. (ubuntustudio has more seeds than most in order to have a ton of metapackages... dunno why it was done that way, but it was)
[00:17] <Eickmeyer> Lots of things that were done about a decade B.E.
[13:16] <Md> I have a complex debian-installer recipe that I need to convert to 22.04: which one of the many installers do I need to use to have preseeding support?
[13:38] <juliank> Md: only the desktop installer supports preseeding afai aware, all the newer ones you'll have to adapt to the new methods
[13:39] <juliank> Md: see https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/install/autoinstall
[13:39] <juliank> Md: autoinstall-generator helps you translate preseed to autoinstall
[13:40] <Md> and is there any reason why I should not just use the desktop installer to create a VM image?
[13:40] <Md> I am not looking forward to maintaining a different installation recipe just for ubuntu
[13:41] <juliank> if you want to install desktop, that works fine
[13:41] <juliank> until the new destkop installer is ready
[13:42] <juliank> and then we'll finally be free of d-i
[13:43] <Md> I do not understand the difference between a "desktop installer" and "server installer", unless the desktop installer will force me to install something that I do not want
[13:44] <juliank> Md: installers copy live images to the disk
[13:44] <juliank> Desktop installer copies desktop live Image, Server copies Server live image
[13:45] <juliank> There are no installers that start with debootstrap and/or install packages based on that
[13:46] <Md> oh well. looks like our customers will have to do without Ubuntu for a while then, thank you
[16:00] <rbasak> !dmb-ping
[16:00] <teward> *yawns* do i have to today xD
[16:02] <utkarsh2102> \o
[16:42] <rbasak> sil2100: o/ could you please adjust the DMB calendar events that are on the fridge calendar and add the new members to it?
[16:42] <rbasak> Also please add me using my @canonical address because my @ubuntu one won't show up on my calendar.
[16:42] <rbasak> utkarsh2102, kanashiro: ^
[16:43] <utkarsh2102> also, add us please:)
[16:43] <kanashiro> that'd help me a lot, today I had lunch a bit earlier than usual and totally forgot about the meeting :/
[16:43] <sil2100> rbasak: on it!
[16:44] <sil2100> Apologies, I missed updating the calendar completely
[16:45] <sil2100> ...should be done now o/
[16:46] <sil2100> Oh, there's the other one as well
[16:46] <sil2100> Let me update the alternating meeting now
[16:47] <kanashiro> sil2100, thanks


[09:48]  * ppisati goes to update his laptop to saucy...
[09:56] <ogra_> pfft ... laptop
[09:56] <ogra_> update your *phone* to saucy :)
[10:02] <ppisati> ogra_: btw, out of curiosity, did we already choose how we will expose the internal of our mobile devices to the rest of the world? umass or mtp?
[10:03] <ogra_> well, tvoss did rebuild the android mtp server under ubuntu using libc .... not sure we will actually use it though
[10:04] <ppisati> ogra_: interesting, was it packaged?
[10:04] <ogra_> not yet ...
[10:04] <ogra_> the prob is that M$ has it patented
[10:04] <ogra_> so that will require some more discussion
[10:05] <ogra_> i personally prefer umass ... but that means to have a vfat partition in the back iirc
[10:05] <ppisati> actually m$ invented it (on top of pptp) but it was later standardized by the usb $whatever std commitee, and pretty much everyone is using it
[10:06] <ppisati> ogra_: right, and vfat means royalties to be paid too
[10:06] <ogra_> right, and paying the patent
[10:07] <ppisati> btw, my mtp experience in linux has been _really_ bad so far
[10:07] <ogra_> oh ?
[10:07] <ogra_> the few times i used it it just worked OOTB
[10:08] <ppisati> sync media files to an mtp-enabeld device? what did you use?
[10:08] <ppisati> i tried many different things
[10:08] <ogra_> nexu4 and my chromebook
[10:08] <ppisati> among which, rhythmbox, our music player
[10:08] <ogra_> and nexus4 with my desktop too
[10:08] <ppisati> when i try to sync my mp3 library, it simply crashes
[10:08] <ogra_> ah, i didnt use RB ... only nautilus
[10:10] <ppisati> well, but when you move media files around you need a sw that uses libmtp which in turn let you manipulate metadata too
[10:10] <ppisati> else you stuff won't properly show on the device
[10:10] <ppisati> e.g.
[10:10] <ppisati> right now i've the nexus10 attached to my desktop
[10:10] <ppisati> and while it is mounted via gvfs (and thus i can copy files to it)
[10:11] <ppisati> rhythmbox says
[10:11] <ppisati> 'unable to open the Google Inc Nexus 4/10(MTP+ADB) device'
[10:11] <ppisati> so, now media sync for this
[10:11] <ppisati> anyhow, there's a new libmto in saucy
[10:12] <ppisati> so i'll know in a bit if it fixes it
[10:12] <ppisati> since the changelog explicitly mentions
[10:12] <ppisati> nexus4 support
[10:12] <ppisati> let's see
[10:14] <ogra_> yeah
[11:34] <tseliot> apw: do you happen to have an agp nvidia card that works with the 304 driver? http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/304.88/README/supportedchips.html
[11:34] <tseliot> or tjaalton ^
[11:35] <tjaalton> nope..
[11:35] <tjaalton> only pcie gf8600gt
[11:35] <tseliot> too bad
[11:36] <tseliot> I need to test my code...
[11:36] <tseliot> with linux 3.10
[11:39] <davmor2> tseliot: I have  a laptop with optimus gfx I've not installed the nvidia element so don't know which driver version it uses, if that is of any use to you?
[11:40] <apw> tseliot, i am not sure i have, will let you know if i find one
[11:41] <tseliot> davmor2: I assume that wouldn't be an agp card. If you want you can use optimus though. It's just a matter of installing nvidia-319 and the nvidia-prime package (if you want to try it)
[11:41] <tseliot> apw: thanks, as I'd like to know if I'm using the procfs correctly
[11:41] <davmor2> tseliot: I'll give it a go
[11:44] <tseliot> good :)
[11:44] <tseliot> davmor2: you won't have to do anything else, just install those packages and reboot
[11:45] <davmor2> tseliot: installling..............
[11:46] <davmor2> tseliot: rebooting................  What's the best way to test it all worked?
[11:47] <tseliot> davmor2: unity should start and the system won't boot into a black screen ;)
[11:47] <davmor2> tseliot: OMG!!!!! splash screen I see a splash screen and a login screen that's a first on this laptop :)
[11:48] <tseliot> :)
[11:48] <davmor2> tseliot: effects seem faster too
[11:49] <tseliot> davmor2: yes, you're using nvidia now
[11:58] <davmor2> tseliot: now it's up and running any tests you'd like run on it?
[12:04] <apw> rtg_, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/
[12:20] <apw> rtg_, the problem with britney is it runs before the publisher (as it does publishing) so it is possible a package gets published into -proposed after it has looked, and then picked up for migration the next run
[12:20] <apw> (so we may be suffering that lag)
[12:20] <rtg_> apw, yep, I'll just wait a bit
[12:20] <apw> rtg_, but britney just updated, and it is still there
[12:20] <apw> so ... i think that is a fail
[12:21] <rtg_> sounds like a job for infinity
[12:24] <apw> 08:59:55*     queuebot | 05:59:55> New: accepted linux-grouper [armhf] (saucy-proposed) [3.1.10-4.12]                │ adam_g_
[12:24] <apw> rtg_, so it got accepted some very many hours ago, i have asked on #ubuntu-release
[12:54] <tseliot> davmor2: not really, the fact that it works is enough, thanks :)
[12:57]  * ppisati goes out for a bit
[13:02] <davmor2> tseliot: there is one thing the backlight doesn't look like it is turning off when the screen sleeps now, I'll dig into that a bit more though
[13:03] <tseliot> davmor2: are you running Saucy?
[13:03] <davmor2> tseliot: Yeap
[13:04] <tseliot> tjaalton: I thought the problems with the backlight were solved ^
[13:05] <davmor2> tseliot: there is definitely a glow from it it is very faint but is noticeable
[13:05] <tseliot> davmor2: I thought we included a patch to make sure that DPMS works and the screen can be switched off
[13:21] <tjaalton> i ran it with -intel for a while, retesting with -modesetting..
[13:22] <tjaalton> xset dpms force off works
[13:28] <davmor2> tjaalton, tseliot: ah hang on I think I see it now,  could it be that the backlight has a very slow fade to black.  before it was kinda a very dark purple now a few minutes latter there is no glow and it is a black screen,  I just wasn't letting it get to the black bit obviously :)
[13:29] <davmor2> I can't see any light at all now examining the edges of the screen like I could before
[13:34] <tjaalton> yeah seems to work fine here
[13:35] <tseliot> good
[13:36] <davmor2> yeap just re-trying again it is currently dark purple with a faint glow from the edges of the screen
[13:37] <davmor2> and now it is off, no glow and a black screen  1 minutes 27seconds ish
[13:40] <davmor2> tseliot, tjaalton: mhh there is another issue, if you hit the brightness down button I get a black screen on minimum setting  I'll write a bug up for that though
[13:41] <tjaalton> not here
[13:41] <tjaalton> with t420s
[13:41] <tseliot> I guess that depends on the modesetting driver, not on the nvidia driver
[13:41] <davmor2> tjaalton: maybe hardware specific I have an ideapad Y580
[13:43] <davmor2> tseliot: and now I'm going to give it a quick stress test with oil rush
[13:47] <rtg_> jsalisbury, henrix: need to bounce gomeisa for openssl update
[13:47] <henrix> rtg_: ack
[13:47] <tseliot> davmor2: sounds good
[13:47] <jsalisbury> rtg_, ack
[13:50] <davmor2> tseliot: gfx set to max and it is handling it with ease, that's a first :)
[13:50] <tseliot> davmor2: excellent :)
[13:52] <davmor2> tseliot: it is however throwing out some massive heat so I think I'll switch it off now :)
[13:53] <tseliot> davmor2: yes, the discrete gpu uses more power
[14:15]  * henrix -> back in 15
[14:19] <bjf> apw, still running your unstable kernel after 40+ hrs.; no wierd times in htop though it did appear to stop updating after 24 hrs.; a new htop instance is running fine
[14:23] <apw> odder
[14:26]  * rtg_ bounces tangerine for openssl update
[16:19] <devoid> hi all, I think I found a regression on the ixgbe driver, it looks like the driver option provided by this patch https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1065475 no longer does anything in 3.2, 3.5 and 3.8?
[16:19] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1065475 in linux (Ubuntu Quantal) "Add patch for various SFP+ module support to ixgbe driver in kernel 3.2.0-x (12.04 Precise)" [Medium,Fix released]
[16:23] <devoid> can someone point me to the source archive for 3.8.0-23?
[16:24] <devoid> that way I can check the driver code and see if the relevant patch http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/commit/?id=8ef78adcb03b1fcb53c3bd62df4e96c1d2706c58 landed or was silently disabled
[16:24] <rtg_> devoid, git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-precise.git
[16:25] <henrix> devoid: the commit is there (in all the kernels). something else changed in the meantime
[16:25] <henrix> devoid: do you have a bug number?
[16:25] <rtg_> devoid, 81469917bcd677dd65363da61137bebacb932587 in ubuntu-precise.git
[16:25] <devoid> henrix: i haven't filed a bug yet, there's some irc chatter about the option no longer working though.
[16:27] <devoid> s/irc/linux-network-mailing list/
[16:27] <devoid> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.network/259128
[16:27] <henrix> devoid: ah, interesting
[16:28] <henrix> devoid: so this is an upstream issue. i could actually still work on the ubuntu kernels, but would require some testing
[16:29] <rtg_> henrix, I see no patches to ixgbe_main.c afterwards that would affect it
[16:30] <henrix> rtg_: yeah, so we should be ok unless the regression was tagged with 'cc: stable@' :)
[16:31] <henrix> devoid: so, have you seen this issue on any of the ubuntu kernels?
[16:31] <devoid> henrix: yes, 3.2, 3.5 and 3.8
[16:32] <devoid> (currently on 3.8.0-23)
[16:41] <henrix> devoid: btw, when opening the bug, please make sure you provide the last version that worked for you. that should help figuring out which commit introduced the regression
[16:41] <devoid> henrix: I haven't found a version that works. ;)
[16:42] <henrix> devoid: at least the version that closed bug #1065475 should have worked
[16:42] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1065475 in linux (Ubuntu Quantal) "Add patch for various SFP+ module support to ixgbe driver in kernel 3.2.0-x (12.04 Precise)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065475
[16:42] <henrix> devoid: as the bug was verified
[17:12]  * henrix -> back in 15
[17:23]  * rtg_ -> lunch
[17:59] <bjf> lamont, are you still affected by bug 1170887 ?
[17:59] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1170887 in linux (Ubuntu) "OOPS generated during boot loading drivers" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170887
[18:16] <lamont> bjf: I'll look
[19:50]  * rtg_ -> EOD
[20:00] <infinity> apw: We can haz #1186932 fixed in saucy too?
[20:01] <infinity> bug #1186932 ... silly bot.
[20:01] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1186932 in linux (Ubuntu) "Regression: kernel 3.8.0-24 breaks WPA enterprise auth [iwlwifi]" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1186932
[20:16] <arges> jsalisbury: infinity : ok kernel works for me!
[20:17] <arges> also did you target this bug against saucy? since it affected me in 3.9 as well
[23:18] <slangasek> jsalisbury: hi, so bug #1190781 and bug #1190414 are probably duplicates of one another... and it looks suspiciously like suspend/resume is completely broken on my x201 in saucy
[23:18] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1190781 in linux (Ubuntu) "[LENOVO 3249CTO] suspend/resume failure" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190781
[23:18] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1190414 in linux (Ubuntu) "[LENOVO 3249CTO] suspend/resume failure" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190414


[08:03] <dholbach> good morning
[09:32] <popey> dpm: mzanetti when i use ./run_on_ubuntu_touch.sh I keep getting password prompts for<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:32] <popey> not seen that before
[09:32] <popey> have i missed a step?
[09:32] <dpm> popey, yeah, that's the issue I'm having too
[09:34] <mzanetti> popey: dpm: tun_on_device -s ?
[09:34] <mzanetti> popey: dpm: run_on_device -s ?
[09:34] <popey> ah duh
[09:34] <popey> yea, i clean flashed phone
[09:34] <popey> so need to do that
[09:34] <dpm> mzanetti, that didn't fix it for me when I tried last week
[09:35] <popey> yeah, does it with -s too
[09:36]  * mzanetti looks
[09:36] <popey> i am on #129
[09:37] <mzanetti> popey: dpm: ah... maybe you are hit by the SDK bug... it generates a new ssh keypair every time you plug a freshly flashed device. at some point the system will give up trying all the old wrong keys
[09:37] <mzanetti> try deleting ~/.ssh/ubuntudevice*
[09:38] <popey> mzanetti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6755293/
[09:39]  * popey rm's /home/phablet/reminders-app too
[09:39] <mzanetti> popey: the stale ssh keys are on your pc
[09:39] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6755295/
[09:40] <popey> better, but it wants r/w ?
[09:40] <popey> E: Unable to write to /var/cache/apt/
[09:40] <mzanetti> popey: to install gcc and everything on the device
[09:40] <popey> ah
[09:40] <mzanetti> popey, dpm: please vote for this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1237923
[09:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1237923 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "SSH keys should not be generated automatically - or at least kept for QtCreator use only" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[09:41] <popey> looks like I already "me too'd" it
[09:46] <popey> mzanetti: maybe you should rm the ssh keys in the script ㋛
[09:47] <mzanetti> popey: would work for me as I don't use qtcreator's deploy and run for ubuntu anyways. but might annoy other people
[09:47] <popey> pffft, other people
[10:00] <popey> dpm / mzanetti can you reproduce bug 1264843 ?
[10:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1264843 in Ubuntu Reminders app "Connection timeout if left too long before signing in" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1264843
[10:00] <popey> Basically start the app then go and get a coffee, come back and tap your login
[10:00] <dpm> mzanetti, but the script cannot be used via qtcreator anyway, can it?
[10:01] <dpm> popey, will do, let me update to the image with the online accounts plugin and install
[10:02] <mzanetti> dpm: not really... but if I remove all those ssh keys with the script, it might remove ssh keys used by qtcreator
[10:02] <dpm> aaah ok
[10:02] <mzanetti> popey: yeah... I've seen something like this
[10:03] <mzanetti> popey: and intentionally not caught that exception to be aware of when it happens
[10:03] <mzanetti> I'm still unsure if I should just catch that exception and try to reconnect
[10:03] <dpm> mzanetti, btw, as mentioned yesterday, the accounts plugin is now in the latest image. So for manual, local testing and demos we can now just install the click package without having to set the phone to R/W and install the accounts plugin first
[10:03] <mzanetti> or if this shouldn't happen in the first place
[10:04] <mzanetti> dpm: ah ok, nice
[10:31] <WebbyIT> ehy popey, could you review this, please? https://code.launchpad.net/~rpadovani/ubuntu-calculator-app/1267820/+merge/201313
[10:36] <popey> sure WebbyIT
[11:01] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Hat Day! :-D
[11:13] <WebbyIT> popey, just see your comment, what escape key is supposed to do? Now it scroll down the page if last calc is not on view
[11:14] <popey> "Pressing "escape" in a label should revert the current edit and edit editing, not clear the calculation"
[11:14] <popey> (from the bug)
[11:19] <WebbyIT> popey, mhh, this is weird, on my pc it works.. do you have time to try a thing?
[11:19] <popey> for you, of course
[11:19] <WebbyIT> :-) On line 203 of Simple/SimplePage.qml, after Keys.onPressed, add console.log(event.key)
[11:20] <WebbyIT> popey, and then run the app and give me the output
[11:24] <dholbach> hey daker - how are you doing? does https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/ubuntu-html5-theme/fix.1216873/+merge/185360 need more work or does it need another review? do you need any help with it?
[11:27] <popey> 16777216 WebbyIT
[11:27] <popey> when i press escape
[11:28] <WebbyIT> popey, ok, thanks.. It's the same I have, maybe it's something with Qt.Key_Escape. I try to exlicit it
[11:29] <popey> np
[11:29] <nik90> WebbyIT: have you looked at http://doc.qt.digia.com/4.6/qt.html#Key-enum for the key names?
[11:30] <WebbyIT> nik90, yap, I followed it
[11:31] <nik90> popey: btw, the stopwatch label bug should be a 1 line fix. Will propose MP soon
[11:31] <popey> k
[11:31] <nik90> I need someone to review https://code.launchpad.net/~nik90/ubuntu-clock-app/fix-alarm-analogue-format/+merge/201282
[11:38] <WebbyIT> popey, I updated the MR, could you try please? I have also found error you said when hit enter and fixed it
[11:38] <WebbyIT> https://code.launchpad.net/~rpadovani/ubuntu-calculator-app/1267820/+merge/201313
[11:38] <popey> sure
[11:40] <popey> WebbyIT: escape now works.
[11:40] <popey> however the display jumps down when i press escape
[11:41] <popey> WebbyIT: http://imgur.com/tgXgDC0
[11:41] <popey> i did 10 * 10 [Esc]
[11:41] <popey> and it jumped down
[11:45] <nik90> timp: Would it be possible to get someone to merge your qml loader fix MP today?
[11:46] <timp> nik90: depends on whether zsombi has time for it
[11:46] <timp> zsombi1: ^ https://code.launchpad.net/~tpeeters/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/pageHeight/+merge/201382
[11:46] <timp> nik90: ^ that one right?
[11:47] <zsombi1> timp: uhh.. ok, I'll push its priority up then
[11:48] <WebbyIT> popey, mhh, what's wrong? If you press esc when you are doing a calc, you delete the calc
[11:50] <popey> well, note how the number area has moved down
[11:50] <popey> it scrolled without me scrolling
[11:56] <daker> dholbach: alex-abreu did explain the situation to mhall119
[12:07] <nik90> timp: yeah that's the one
[12:12] <dpm> oSoMoN, do you have a minute for a quick cmake/translations question? I'm looking at indicator-location, which doesn't have i18n support yet, and I thought I could reuse the cmake rules you created for browser & co. Looking at indicator-location, it seems to have something in place already, though, but I'm not familiar enough with cmake to tell if it would be enough to build a .pot file and then the .mo files. It's at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~in
[12:12] <dpm> dicator-applet-developers/indicator-location/trunk.14.04/view/head:/po/CMakeLists.txt - What do you think?
[12:13] <oSoMoN> dpm, I’m about to leave for lunch (eating out today), mind if I have a look when I get back?
[12:14] <dpm> oSoMoN, of course, no worries, thanks!
[12:32] <ahayzen> timp, ping
[12:36] <dholbach> daker, ah ok
[12:39] <nik90> zsombi: Hey, on looking through your pickerpanel code, I noticed the following line, Component.onCompleted: isPhone = formFactorPhone && (QuickUtils.inputMethodProvider !== "")
[12:40] <nik90> zsombi: does QuickUtils.inputMethodProvider help in detecting if the device has a on-screen keyboard?
[12:40] <nik90> zsombi: I am asking since I may need to implement something similar for the clock app
[12:46] <timp> ahayzen: pong
[12:46] <ahayzen> timp, this is still failing :/ https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/fix-swipe-delete-001/+merge/199906 ... looking at the logs https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-mediumtests-runner-mako/4675/console its like the process doesn't even start
[12:47] <ahayzen> timp, how can such a small change be causing such chaos lol
[12:53] <timp> ahayzen: at first sight is till looks like a broken jenkins to me :s
[12:54] <ahayzen> timp, :/
[12:54] <timp> ahayzen: I'd ask for help in #ubuntu-ci-eng, but they may be very busy
[12:54] <ahayzen> timp, thanks understood
[14:20] <zsombi> nik90: QuickUtils does, however it is not a public API seo we don't promise anything for that. We have plans to have something that would help on detecting the form factor the app is running, so till then you need to use something else to find out in what FF are you running. Use the GU pixel size, that's better
[14:26] <oSoMoN> dpm, I had a look at the pot file generation for indicator-location, there is already some cmake logic that adds a pot target, however it’s not working, looks like the generated target is missing a parameter to call xgettext (-f path/to/POTFILES.in)
[14:26] <oSoMoN> dpm, it’s using a custom cmake module to do that which I don’t know
[14:27] <dpm> oSoMoN, do you think it might be worth fixing that to get it to do what we need, or just replace it by the rules you and the other guys created for the system apps?
[14:28] <oSoMoN> dpm, I think it’s probably much easier to fix what’s already there, let’s ask charles about it
[14:29] <oSoMoN> charles, dpm and myself are trying to figure out how to make the pot target work for indicator-location, looks like you got that code from lp:indicator-session, did you ever get it to work?
[14:30] <dpm> charles, to provide some more context, it's about this bug to make indicator-location translatable: bug 1232412
[14:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1232412 in Ubuntu Translations "Needs translation setup" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232412
[15:41] <dpm> hi charles, I'm not sure if you were up yet. Did you have the chance to look at the question from earlier on about indicator-location? ^^
[15:59] <charles> oSoMoN, dpm: I seem to recall the problem was that cmake and intltool/gettext weren't playing nicely with each other
[16:00] <charles> oSoMoN, dpm: iirc seb128 was the one who found this in the indicators and came up with the original workaround. iirc he'd seen something similar in u-s-s but I'm less sure about that?
[16:01] <charles> are there any cmake-based indicators that are known to work? If so we can modify the rest to use its rules
[16:21] <dpm> charles, sorry for not being too responsive, on a call right now. I'm not familiar with the build system of the rest of the indicators and whether they use cmake
[16:21] <dpm> the other option is to use the cmake rules that are known to work for the system apps
[16:22] <charles> dpm: no problem. I know the indicator side of it, but need guidance on which (if any) indicators are known to be working right, so that I can use their rules as in the others' code
[16:23] <charles> I suspect seb128 knows the answer to this
[16:23] <dpm> charles, all of the rest on the phone do load translations, but I've not had a look at their code yet to see if they're cmake-based. I can have a look after the call
[16:24] <charles> dpm: on the phone, indicator-sound and indicator-datetime are both cmake based
[16:24] <charles> they're working correctly?
[16:25] <charles> I'll compare what they do wrt i18n to what indicator-location is doing.
[16:25] <charles> sounds like it should be an easy thing; most likely indicator-location just got overlooked when we added the workaround to the other cmake indicators
[16:26]  * charles assigns himself to https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232412
[16:26] <dpm> charles, they were working when I was testing the image yesterday, at least I remember the i-d being localized, but I can double-check later on today
[16:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1232412 in Ubuntu Translations "Needs translation setup" [High,Triaged]
[16:26] <dpm> thanks charles!
[16:27] <charles> dpm, oSoMoN: thanks for pointing this out to me :)
[16:28] <WebbyIT> ehy popey, I updated today branch to fix the error you notice, but I think it's a bug in SDK
[16:28] <WebbyIT> If I use formulaView.positionViewAtBeginning() doesn't work
[16:28] <WebbyIT> but if I use formulaView.contentY = 0 works as expected
[16:35] <seb128> charles, dpm: what's the issue with cmake/intltool?
[17:08] <dpm> seb128, sorry, just got off the phone. So the context was that indicator-location is currently the last indicator missing i18n support. It seems to have some i18n cmake rules in place in the source tree, but they seem to be incomplete and do not generate a .pot file (nor they build the .mo files afaiui). We thought that if there are other indicators using cmake and implementing i18n support we could just steal the build rules from them, and as you r
[17:08] <dpm> eplied to the bug, you might know more about that
[17:11] <seb128> dpm, dh-translations should work, let me have a look
[17:11] <dpm> thanks seb128
[17:15] <seb128> dpm, is the issue with the vcs or the packaging?
[17:15] <seb128> dpm, because https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157540889/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-i386.indicator-location_13.10.0%2B14.04.20131125-0ubuntu1_UPLOADING.txt.gz has
[17:15] <seb128> "Wrote indicator-location.pot"
[17:15] <seb128> I've it as well locally
[17:16] <dpm> seb128, oh, I was looking at the upstream project and noticed it didn't have translations enabled. I couldn't see them in the source package, either, but perhaps I missed something. Let me double-check
[17:17] <seb128> dpm, there is something wrong with launchpad there, that translation never made it to the queue
[17:17] <dpm> indeed it didn't: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/indicator-location/+imports
[17:17] <seb128> dpm, I wonder if that's https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1260754
[17:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1260754 in Launchpad itself "Translation not imported from source to launchpad" [Undecided,New]
[17:17] <seb128> or a similar issue
[17:18] <dpm> that's weird, I haven't seen LP failing on importing templates in a while
[17:18] <seb128> dpm, OH!
[17:18] <seb128> dpm, it's in universe, we don't langpack universe
[17:19] <dpm> aha!
[17:19] <seb128> I guess we don't import templates either?
[17:19] <dpm> we can actually import them
[17:19] <dpm> let me check how. Or is this planned to get into main soon?
[17:19] <seb128> there was some sort of effort to do that but I though we reverted the packages that did it because of some bug on the launchpad side
[17:19] <seb128> we should MIR it in any case
[17:20] <dpm> ok, so doing the MIR looks like the way to go. In the meantime we can enable translations in the upstream project
[17:20] <seb128> right
[17:20] <dpm> charles, were you planning in doing a MIR for indicator-location?
[17:21] <seb128> dpm, charles: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess for the process details
[17:21] <seb128> should be easy nowadays (if it doesn't depends on stuff that are not promoted yet)
[17:21] <dpm> seb128, if dh-translations works, I assume that building the .pot locally from the source tree should work too, right?
[17:22] <seb128> dpm, yeah, I did a local build, worked fine, calling intltool-update -p also works (it just names the file untitled.pot)
[17:23] <dpm> ok, so I think what I'll do is to do an intltool-update and manually upload the template in the upstream project, and then clarify with charles about the MIR
[17:23] <seb128> sounds good to me
[17:23] <dpm> awesome, thanks seb128!
[17:23] <seb128> yw ;-)
[17:38] <myNameIsWho> How do I add items to the Hud ?
[17:39] <myNameIsWho> thanks
[17:40] <myNameIsWho> Also I am making a torrent client/server and am wondering how I am going to get around the security issues of things like saving files and what not
[17:47] <ahayzen> timp, u still around?
[18:15] <timp> ahayzen: yes
[18:16] <ahayzen> timp, so ur branch passed? https://code.launchpad.net/~tpeeters/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/fix-swipe-delete-001/+merge/201784
[18:16] <ahayzen> timp, i was talking to the CI guys they said tht qmlscene crashed...
[18:19] <timp> ahayzen: I wonder whether the fails are random and we are very unlucky.
[18:19] <timp> ahayzen: I wonder whether the fails are random and we are very unlucky.
[18:20] <timp> ahayzen: I top-approved it again. if it fails I will ask someone to top-approve my copy of the MR
[18:20] <ahayzen> timp, hopefully...they said to get one of the UITK devs to look at the .crash file
[18:20] <timp> I am one of the UITK devs
[18:20] <timp> looking now....
[18:21] <timp> ah I looked at them before, and had no clue what's happening
[18:22] <ahayzen> timp, hehe
[18:23] <timp> I'll ask in #ubuntu-ci-eng why CI on my branch passes and your autolanding fails
[18:24] <ahayzen> timp, cool... i'll join tht channel as well
[20:11] <ahayzen> balloons, FYI we have a bug report now for the MediaPlayer autopilot issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/autopilot-qt/+bug/1269578
[20:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1269578 in Autopilot Qt Support "Autopilot cannot access MediaPlayer component" [High,In progress]
[20:11] <balloons> ahayzen, ahh perfect. I'd add that to the merge
[20:11] <ahayzen> balloons, it is linked
[20:11] <balloons> nice find.. but sorry you had to hit it :-)
[20:12] <ahayzen> balloons, :) i like breaking things
[20:49] <nik90> hey guys, do you know how to set the minimum width of a qml app?
[20:50] <nik90> I don't want the clock app width to go below units.gu(50) since it makes the analogue clock face look bad.
[20:52] <ahayzen> nik90, does ur clock app have swipeDelete in it?
[20:53] <nik90> ahayzen: it does
[20:53] <ahayzen> nik90, do u have autopilot tests on it?
[20:54] <ahayzen> nik90, as in performing the swipeDelete?
[20:54] <nik90> ahayzen: yup
[20:54] <ahayzen> nik90, i'm just wondering how u do it cause i've just removed the music-app's custom swipeDelete component
[20:55] <nik90> ahayzen: I also removed the custom swipeDelete from clock app and started using the SDK component for that
[20:55] <nik90> ahayzen: the SDK autopilot emulator provides a function to swipe delete
[20:55] <ahayzen> nik90, can u remember which test it is in?
[20:55] <ahayzen> nik90, and my initial reorder component will hopefully land soon \o/
[20:56] <ahayzen> nik90, just no scrolling yet :/
[20:56] <nik90> ahayzen: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6758385/
[20:56] <ahayzen> nik90, think i've found it delete_alarm() ?
[20:57] <nik90> it is a simple swipe_to_delete() emulator function
[20:57] <ahayzen> nik90, oh nice first_lap.swipe_to_delete(), first_lap.confirm_removal()
[20:57] <nik90> ahayzen: dont look at alarms tests, they are broken at the moment
[20:57] <nik90> ahayzen: yup that's it
[20:57] <ahayzen> nik90, ah ok .. u having issues with autopilot as well ;)
[20:58] <nik90> ahayzen: well not really. the alarms feature is still a wip
[20:58] <nik90> hence no sense making the test to work :)
[20:58] <ahayzen> nik90, oh u still waiting for the service?
[20:58] <nik90> ahayzen: waiting on the notification service yes
[20:59] <nik90> ahayzen: and some minute bugs in the alarms API
[20:59] <ahayzen> nik90, we are waiting on two services :/ once they start landing it'll be awesome though :D
[20:59] <nik90> ahayzen: which ones?
[20:59] <ahayzen> nik90, mediascanner and ... mediahub?
[20:59] <ahayzen> nik90, one to scan for music and one tht plays music while the phone is locked etc
[21:00] <nik90> ahayzen: ah okay ... I am guessing they will replace the grillo plugin
[21:00] <ahayzen> nik90, yep thts why we are not too bothered about issues in grilo
[21:00] <nik90> ahayzen: I thought the music app works even when the phonne is locked
[21:00] <nik90> using qt powerd
[21:00] <ahayzen> nik90, we have an exception in powerd IIRC
[21:01] <ahayzen> nik90, but it means our app is always running which is not best
[21:01] <nik90> ahayzen: ah.. then it makes sense
[21:01] <ahayzen> nik90, so this would allow our app to sleep like the others
[21:01] <nik90> ahayzen: oh btw did you see today's convergence hangout?
[21:01] <nik90> we discussed about the sheets
[21:01] <nik90> in the music app
[21:01] <ahayzen> nik90, and we're hoping will fix a few other issues
[21:01] <nik90> it has to go
[21:01] <ahayzen> nik90, yeah i did thx for covering :)
[21:02] <nik90> :)
[21:13] <nik90> ahayzen: hey btw are you defining all your keyboard shortcuts in the main qml file? or did you put them in their respective files?
[21:14] <ahayzen> nik90, https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/music-app/convergence-keyboard-shortcuts/+merge/201266 at the moment
[21:14] <ahayzen> nik90, i dunno whether to move all of the HUD actions and shortcuts into a separate file
[21:14] <nik90> ahayzen: I was thinking the same thing. I am not a fan of making the main file big by adding everything to it
[21:15] <nik90> although I have no idea how to do it
[21:15] <ahayzen> u could just listen to the events?
[21:15] <nik90> using connections?
[21:16] <nik90> but say I move all the shortcuts to keyboard.qml, what would the object be defined as in that file?
[21:16] <nik90> Item {} ?
[21:17] <ahayzen> nik90, erm probably... i'll have a look in a second just fixing up autopilot
[21:17] <nik90> ahayzen: oh yeah sorry. go ahead
[21:19] <ahayzen> nik90, i have waaaay to many things going on
[21:19] <ahayzen> nik90, literally the whole of the QtCreator sidebar just says music-app repeated from top to bottom of the screen must be a good 20 branches going lol
[21:20] <nik90> lol
[21:24] <ahayzen> nik90, right keyboard shortcuts
[21:24]  * ahayzen hates it how QtCreator just displays "music-app"
[21:25] <nik90> ahayzen: +1
[21:26] <nik90> are you trying to search your sidebar for the right project? lol
[21:26] <ahayzen> nik90, yeah i usually end up clicking the little computer icon then search tht list which shows the filepaths...click on it then it highlights the right 'music-app' :)
[21:27] <ahayzen> nik90, hmm ur probably still gonna have a Keys { } in the mainView
[21:28] <ahayzen> nik90, or not lol
[21:29] <nik90> ahayzen: right now, I defined the entire Keys.onPressed signal in the main file which is only going to get bigger. Hence pushing that into a separate file would be lovely
[21:30] <ahayzen> nik90, easiest way would probably be to just call a function from Keys.onPressed: { myFunction(event) }
[21:30] <ahayzen> nik90, and have tht function in another file
[21:31] <nik90> ahayzen: hmm yeah that could work
[21:32] <ahayzen> nik90, probably the simplest/easiest :P
[21:42] <nik90> popey: as I said the stopwatch label fix is quite small -> https://code.launchpad.net/~nik90/ubuntu-clock-app/fix-stopwatch-label-size/+merge/201842


[16:25] <nicomachus> I have a rpi set up as a network "gateway" so that I can SSH into a few different machines. Previously, I was using a desktop PC for that with full Ubuntu (12.04 through 16.10). With the full ubuntu machine, I was able to reboot the pc remotely (which would drop connection) but I could SSH back in after it rebooted, without having physical access to log the machine in. Now, with the rpi running
[16:25] <nicomachus> Mate 16.04, if I reboot remotely I lose connection and SSH back in until I physically log into the rpi from local. What's the difference there? Can I fix it?
[16:26] <nicomachus> CAN'T SSh back in*** on the rpi


[05:41] <troy_s> greetings
[05:42] <dinda> howdy
[07:07] <troy_s> ze pilot
[07:08] <Madpilot> hi
[07:08] <troy_s> greetz
[07:10] <Madpilot> gah... tired. Nine hours at work w/ a 90 minute commute each way, new job...
[07:30] <troy_s> uggh
[07:30] <troy_s> ugggllleeeee
[09:01] <dizz1> what is that button under ubuntu logo everywhere?
[09:01] <dizz1> why?
[09:02] <dizz1> do you know what i mean?
[09:02] <Madpilot> which button?
[09:02] <dizz1> i ve just updated ubuntu and i see the new artwork
[09:03] <dizz1> on the panel
[09:03] <dizz1> near the applications
[09:03] <dizz1> it must be removed
[09:03] <Madpilot> the logo in the top-left corner?
[09:03] <dizz1> yes
[09:04] <dizz1> also under system/about ubuntu
[09:04] <Madpilot> yes
[09:04] <dizz1> you see it?
[09:05] <Madpilot> of course.
[09:06] <Madpilot> why must Ubuntu's own logo be removed from the Ubuntu desktop, anyway?
[09:06] <dizz1> i think it should be like in gnome
[09:06] <Madpilot> with the foot instead?
[09:06] <dizz1> not the logo but the button under
[09:06] <dizz1> you know?
[09:07] <dizz1> yesterday it was without a button
[09:07] <Madpilot> no, I've never used a 'pure' Gnome desktop, only Ubuntu's and a couple of other distro's
[09:07] <Madpilot> still not sure what you mean by 'the button under'...
[09:08] <dizz1> there's a square under the logo
[09:09] <dizz1> the square looks like a button
[09:09] <dizz1> square as a background
[09:09] <Madpilot> I'm still running Ubuntu 5.10, and there's no square, just the logo...
[09:10] <dizz1> oh....
[09:10] <dizz1> I had to say that
[09:10] <Madpilot> are you running Dapper?
[09:10] <dizz1> im using the dapper
[09:11] <dizz1> anyway
[09:11] <dizz1> where can i give my suggestins about the artwork?
[09:11] <Madpilot> the artwork team mailing list is probably best
[09:12] <dizz1> do you have a link?
[09:14] <Madpilot> sure, just a sec
[09:14] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam
[09:22] <dizz1> you are a member of the ubuntu-art team!
[09:23] <dizz1> so you are the person who i should talk
[09:24] <dizz1> my opinion is: remove the square beneath the logo
[09:24] <dizz1> Madpilot:
[09:25] <Madpilot> dizz1, can you stick a screenshot up so I can see this square?
[09:26] <dizz1> yeah!
[09:34] <Madpilot> dizz1, I'm signing off for the night. Post a screenshot somewhere, and send the URL to the artteam mailing list
[09:36] <dizz1> Madpilot: thanx for helping
[11:34] <marcin_ant> guys really don't mess with ubuntu artwork please!
[11:35] <marcin_ant> this button under ubuntu logo is just ugly - same with thrash icon
[11:35] <marcin_ant> please revert to previous artwork which was nice and clean
[03:03] <bersace> Wow
[03:03] <bersace> i'm testing OpenSuSE 10.1
[03:03] <bersace> that is so pretty
[03:03] <bersace> so professionnal
[03:32] <kwwii> testing gnome or kde?
[03:32] <kwwii> cause the kde in it is shit
[03:32] <kwwii> but hey, we all expected that
[03:32] <kwwii> time for a nap
[03:39] <lapo_> hi
[03:41] <bersace> hi
[04:10] <dholbach> heya
[04:13] <Who_> hi
[04:13] <Who_> dholbach: quiet, isn't it :)
[04:14] <bersace> dholbach: do we still ship gnome-themes ?
[04:14] <dholbach> yeah, we do
[04:14] <dholbach> Who_: that's how we get gtk2-engine-pixbuf:   ubuntu-desktop -> gnome-themes -> g-e-pixbuf
[04:14] <dholbach> so we're happy over there as well
[04:15] <dholbach> no new depends to do, wihch makes me happy
[04:15] <bersace> dholbach: wouldn't it be nice to drop gnome-themes except accessibility themes ?
[04:15] <Who_> dholbach: wow, you gotta be on top of this :)
[04:15] <dholbach> bersace: no, can't do that - people who upgrade will loose their themes, if they selected them.
[04:16] <bersace> ?
[04:16] <dholbach> bersace: we'd remove them under their seat, that doesn't work.
[04:16] <bersace> if ubuntu-desktop does not depend on a package, it will be removed ???
[04:16] <Who_> dholbach: does it hurt to make ubuntu-desktop depend on pixbuf?
[04:16] <bersace> Who_: agree
[04:16] <dholbach> Who_: it depends on gnome-themes, which depends on pixbuf, so there's no need for that
[04:17] <Who_> dholbach: okie, I was just thinking about dropping gnome-themes in the future, but I guess that isn't likely to happen...?
[04:17] <dholbach> bersace: Matt asked us to not do last minute seed changes (which change ubuntu-{desktop,minimal,...}
[04:17] <z_diver> dholbach: how about the nuoveXT icons?  Is there any problem with including them?
[04:18] <dholbach> no, I fear not this time
[04:18] <dholbach> z_diver: where are those? it's a complete new icon set to get on the CD?
[04:18] <bersace> dholbach: of course, that is more intended for edgy
[04:18] <dholbach> bersace: ok, let's discuss it then.
[04:18] <bersace> that would be nice to have Artteam selected theme only including an accessibility theme
[04:18] <z_diver> dholbach: yes, both industrialXT and GrayXT count on them
[04:19] <z_diver> I can send them to you.
[04:19] <z_diver> dholbach: but is there space
[04:19] <dholbach> bersace: that doesn't work either. we need *all* of the themes, as disabled people have different impairements. there is no "one size fits all" theme for them.
[04:19] <dholbach> z_diver: there is no space, not at all.
[04:19] <bersace> dholbach: you mean that we need several accessibility theme ?
[04:19] <dholbach> I wasn't aware of the new icon and it's far to late to package it and get it approved for main, included in the seeds etc.
[04:19] <dholbach> bersace: yes.
[04:19] <bersace> that's not the problem,
[04:20] <z_diver> dholbach: OK.  we need to alter the depency then
[04:20] <dholbach> bersace: you can ask on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>about that.
[04:20] <dholbach> z_diver: in which way? what do you propose?
[04:20] <z_diver> dholbach: change both those to use the Human icons in the metatheme file
[04:20] <dholbach> I don't mean to be rude or anything, but I'd have been happy with all this kind of information some days ago :-/
[04:20] <bersace> i want to drop Grand Canyon, Glider, Mist, Ocean Dream, Simple Smockey Blue and Traditionnal
[04:20] <Who_> Summary of themes and dependencies; GrayXT: Pixbuf (ubuntu-desktop-->gnome-themes); LegacyHuman: Clearlooks (ubuntu-desktop); DapperDrake, Silicon, Human: UbuntuLooks (ubuntu-artwork); Resilience: Smooth (ubuntu-desktop)
[04:20] <dholbach> z_diver: is that something the other people hit me for?
[04:21] <dholbach> bersace: drop as in how?
[04:21] <bersace> ?
[04:21] <bersace> do not ship it by default.
[04:21] <dholbach> ask on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>about that.
[04:21] <z_diver> dholbach: I don't think this was done on time and it's a big mess now.
[04:22] <lapo_> dholbach: andreasn is planning an accessibility icon theme for edgy and i think I'll help him
[04:22] <dholbach> lapo: that sounds marvellous
[04:22] <dholbach> z_diver: I perfectly agree.
[04:22] <z_diver> dholbach: I guessed the nuoveXT icons were too big in the begining
[04:22] <bersace> dholbach: i just want to know if the artwork team is the team that decide which themes are shiped (except accessibility theme which are choosed by accessibility team)
[04:22] <dholbach> z_diver: does Human fit with that?
[04:22] <Who_> dholbach: Do you have the email I sent you with the original GraXT themes - it linked to the NuoveXT icons
[04:22] <z_diver> dholbach: not great.
[04:23] <dholbach> bersace: it has to be in accordance with everybody else.
[04:23] <z_diver> dholbach: Let me have a look for althernatives.
[04:23] <sabdfl> hi all
[04:23] <dholbach> Who_: I can't package and get them on the CD now - it's too late for that.
[04:23] <Who_> dholbach: okay, so we need to change the Gray and Industrial themes to use some other icons?
[04:23] <dholbach> Who_: we already had to drop language-packs and make room for the 2,5 MB of artwork.
[04:23] <dholbach> Who_: yes, for Dapper.
[04:23] <z_diver> Who_: Yeah, we need to find something on there that will look nice and work.
[04:24] <Who_> dholbach: okay on to it now
[04:24] <dholbach> Who_: things would have been different some days or weeks ago, but it's a bad time to get a new icon theme packaged, approved for main, added to the seeds and other stuff remove for it.
[04:24] <Who_> Anyone know which icon themes we have by default on the CD
[04:24] <dholbach> tango, tangerine, human, gnome
[04:24] <Who_> dholbach: is there the possibility of having NuoveXT somewhere in the repos?
[04:25] <Who_> okay, I'm gonna go with Tangerine for GrayXT, and Gnome for IndustrialXT
[04:25] <Who_> any objections?
[04:25] <Who_> in fact, Tango for Industrial, cos we don't have that anywhere else as selectable
[04:25] <dholbach> Who_: I think it's too late for nuoveXT - I'm very busy with the Dapper release
[04:25] <z_diver> Who_: How about Tango for Industrrial
[04:26] <Who_> dholbach: okay. Edgy it is :)
[04:26] <Who_> z_diver: great minds....
[04:26] <z_diver> Who_: blue and blue at leat
[04:26] <z_diver> Who_: least
[04:26] <Who_> z_diver: see above :) I agree
[04:26] <bersace> hello sabdfl !
[04:26] <dholbach> can you drop me a quick mail with the changes I need to do for the icons for the themes?
[04:27] <z_diver> dholbach: sure thing
[04:27] <bersace> i just want to know if the artwork team is the team that decide which themes are shiped (except accessibility theme which are choosed by accessibility team)
[04:27] <lapo_> what is tango for industrial?
[04:27] <dholbach> z_diver: thanks
[04:27] <Who_> dholbach: will do. Is it too much to rename GrayXT and IndustrialXT as they no longer ahve any XT to them?
[04:27] <z_diver> lapo: I think it may work
[04:27] <dholbach> Who_: we have industrial already in the archive, for grayxt we have to hope that nobody uses it already
[04:28] <dholbach> Who_: which means, that I'm not so happy about changing the names now
[04:28] <Who_> okay. I'll keep them
[04:28] <dholbach> ok thanks
[04:28] <Who_> dholbach: - or add a Tangerine to the end or somethin - I guess the folder structure has to be redone anyway?
[04:29] <dholbach> Who_: I'll take care of the directory issues of the themes
[04:30] <Who_> sholbach: it is essential that the name of the directory matches the name in the index.theme file - that is how the names of the themes are done - if you change the directory name you must also change the name of the gtk theme in dirname/index.theme
[04:30] <Who_> dholbach: it is essential that the name of the directory matches the name in the index.theme file - that is how the names of the themes are done - if you change the directory name you must also change the name of the gtk theme in dirname/index.theme
[04:31] <lapo_> tangerine and tango-icon-theme follow the tango style guidelines, so for an original theme we could just ship a minimal set of icons (let's say folders, trashbin, and some other random stuff) done following the guidelins
[04:31] <lapo_> and iherits the rest from tango or tangerine
[04:32] <z_diver> lapo: That's a nice idea.
[04:32] <lapo_> something similar to what windows95 plus pack did
[04:32] <lapo_> z_diver: it is what we will be do for gnome themes probably
[04:33] <dholbach> Who_: according to the quick look I had on the gconf keys, it's the name - but i'm sure at some point it needs to be resolved to the directory it's in. so better not mess with it now.
[04:33] <z_diver> lapo: for all of them
[04:33] <dholbach> please drop me a mail with all the icon decisions for the themes and i'll get it done with the next upload.
[04:33] <lapo_> surelly "crux refresh" I'm working on with thos will use a minimal set of tango style icons
[04:33] <Who_> dholbach: ok
[04:34] <lapo_> well the "crux refresh" thos is working is more correct :-)
[04:35] <z_diver> lapo: but the four themes listed above will be complete won't they?
[04:36] <lapo_> z_diver: dunno about those theme sorry
[04:36] <bersace> dholbach: about g-e-pixbuf, is ubuntu-desktop or ubuntu-artwork that actually need it ?
[04:36] <Who_> lapo:I have IconTheme=Tangerine in my metatheme but it seems not to work, any ideas?
[04:37] <Who_> lapo: my mistake" I don't have them installed!
[04:37] <dholbach> bersace: i'll think about it
[04:39] <z_diver> Is it true that tango, tangerine, human and gnome icon sets are to be included in full?
[04:39] <Who_> ok - anyone ready to test these themes? I need an opinion on whether Tangerine is OK with Gray too, not just to know if they work
[04:40] <z_diver> Who_: I have about 5 minutes ;)
[04:40] <Who_> okay :)
[04:41] <z_diver> Who_: are you sending somethign or do you want me to test what I have here.
[04:41] <Who_> I am sending...
[04:42] <Who_> My current thinking is that GrayXT looks better with Gnome icons than Tangerine - opinions?
[04:44] <Who_> Anyone?
[04:45] <bersace> Who_: wait
[04:46] <z_diver> Who_: Something should change.
[04:46] <Who_> z_diver: go on...
[04:46] <z_diver> Who_: I think the window border is too light and doesn't stand out
[04:47] <z_diver> Who_: I'll test with the gnome icons now.
[04:47] <z_diver> Who_: I do like the Industial with Tango.  Nice.
[04:48] <Who_> dholbach: urrm... I assume neither tango-silicon nor Gion icons are included either - I just checked the other that are supposed to be included, Dapper-Drake uses Gion and Silicon uses Tango-Silicon... :S
[04:48] <dholbach> urg urg urg
[04:48] <Who_> z_diver: I know we are making changes but I would l;ike to stick to what was voted on as closely as possible...
[04:48] <dholbach> we need this adapted to the "real world"
[04:49] <Who_> dholbach: okay - there is no space for any more icons, right?
[04:49] <z_diver> Who_: I realize that too.  It was just a thought.
[04:49] <dholbach> Who_: no there isn't and I don't have time to package it up for universe or whatever, i'm sorry
[04:50] <z_diver> Who_: I think grey needs some color.  I like the Tangerine icons
[04:51] <Who_> dholbach: OK - just in case - Gion is only a 314 k download (it falls back on to Tango)  - any chance?
[04:51] <dholbach> no, not the time, really
[04:51] <Who_> dholbach: shall I get those in IRC to choose an icon set already included for each theme or do we need to axe a theme or two?
[04:51] <dholbach> it takes time to get it 1) packaged, 2) approved as a package including licensing etc, 3) to get it through security review, 4) approved for main, 5) added to the seeds (to appear in ubuntu-desktop
[04:51] <z_diver> dholbach: Which brings up the point that Dapper-Drake needs Gion
[04:52] <dholbach> there's no time for new icon themes, really not
[04:52] <troy_s> greetz all.
[04:52] <z_diver> dholbach: So that nees to be changed too.  BVC will want to choose it.
[04:52] <dholbach> so either you decided on a theme, which looks good or you axe it
[04:52] <dholbach> it's your call
[04:53] <z_diver> I think we understand that now
[04:53] <dholbach> and I know it makes people unhappy, but that's how life is ~2 days before relase
[04:53] <dholbach> and i'm very busy
[04:53] <dholbach> really
[04:53] <dholbach> sorry.
[04:53] <bersace> Who_: about Gray, maybe Tango-noir :)
[04:53] <Who_> troy_s: we are having a bit of a crisis - no space for new icon themes so either we axe a theme or assign an icon set out of Tango, Tangerine, Human or Gnome to apply to theme
[04:54] <Who_> dholbach: I think we all know this is really our fault for not getting things done sooner :)
[04:54] <bersace> Who_: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=38964
[04:54] <dholbach> Who_: thanks.
[04:54] <troy_s> hrm...
[04:54] <troy_s> axe a theme then
[04:54] <Who_> bersace: it is _really_ clear there is _NO way_ we can inlude new icons ...
[04:54] <dholbach> I don't want to appear with a picture on the art team's dart board. :-)
[04:54] <troy_s> daniel, everyone knows or should know that you work like a bloody dog.
[04:55] <Who_> dholbach: since we haven't even made a debs for our themes I think that would ba a bit rich
[04:56] <troy_s> so the options are axe or borrow?
[04:56] <z_diver> troy_s: pretty much
[04:56] <bersace> Who_: of course.
[04:57] <Who_> so people: the themes we currently have problems with are Dapper-Drake and Silicon What are we going to do?
[04:57] <Who_> Silicon is Mikkel, Dapper Drake is Billy, I believe...right?
[04:57] <z_diver> troy_s: bvc is going to want to pick for Dapper I bet
[04:57] <z_diver> Who_: right
[04:58] <troy_s> squeaky wheels always prevail for some reason.
[04:58] <troy_s> had we had launchpad in order
[04:58] <Who_> well we have very limited time - can we get hold of bvc so quickly?
[04:58] <Who_> troy_s: later! we need to work this out now
[04:58] <troy_s> we could have it polled and done.  but now it is going to seem a little undemocratic.  this leads me to believe that once again,
[04:59] <troy_s> well just vote.
[04:59] <bersace> troy_s: dapper is not democratic, edgy will
[04:59] <troy_s> it's not terribly democratic, but daniel needs a solution
[04:59] <bersace> :)
[04:59] <bersace> drop unusable theme
[04:59] <Who_> So: Dapper-Drake who votes to axe it, who votes for new icons?
[04:59] <troy_s> bersace:  at our current structure level, it is going to be the same
[04:59] <troy_s> axe
[04:59] <troy_s> two votes for axe
[04:59] <Who_> axe
[04:59] <troy_s> three votes for axe
[04:59] <troy_s> who else is alive?
[04:59] <z_diver> axe wht
[05:00] <z_diver> We still need to pick themes
[05:00] <z_diver> or at least icons themes
[05:00] <Who_> axe Dapper-Drake cos it has no icons
[05:00] <troy_s> axe
[05:00] <z_diver> What do we have left?
[05:00] <troy_s> yes... go with the ones that are most complete seems to make the most sense
[05:00] <Who_> sorry troy_s - I was explaining to z_diver
[05:00] <troy_s> who:  with you brother.
[05:01] <Who_> Now Silicon: I propose we keep but use Human or Gnome icons
[05:01] <z_diver> Dapper can use Human icons
[05:01] <Who_> too bright?
[05:01] <bersace> Resilience is not shipped
[05:01] <troy_s> someone mock up a quick wiki
[05:01] <troy_s> or at least provide links.
[05:02] <troy_s> someone got the links?  i am half baked awake here... morning.
[05:02] <z_diver> I'm on my way to work so I can't do it.
[05:02] <z_diver> I'll vote if there is a change
[05:02] <z_diver> chance
[05:02] <Who_> ok. I'll get a wiki page up
[05:03] <bersace> Silicon is not shipped too .
[05:03] <bersace> :S
[05:03] <z_diver> I thought I saw both Silicon and Resilience
[05:03] <troy_s> erk!
[05:03] <troy_s> well what way are you leaning now z before you are off?
[05:03] <troy_s> at least you had a bit of a say
[05:04] <troy_s> cuz resolution has to happen in how long daniel?  one hour?
[05:04] <troy_s> half hour?
[05:05] <z_diver> I'd like to find appropriate icon sets from the four available, tango, tangerine, humman and gnome and be done with it.
[05:05] <troy_s> dissolving kickstart artwork team now cuz mark added more admins
[05:05] <troy_s> thank god.
[05:05] <z_diver> deleting themes seems like hard on users, while new themes entirely seems like more work.
[05:06] <z_diver> so patch up the ones we have
[05:06] <z_diver> I do have to run.  I'll leave my vote as that.  Good luck.  If I have a chance I'll check back in.
[05:07] <z_diver> AND THANKS TO ALL
[05:12] <troy_s> so everyone is leaving, who you still here bro?
[05:13] <Who_> ok, wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/DapperThemes_OLD
[05:14] <Who_> troy_s: we need to make a decision on this really soon so Daniel can package in time
[05:14] <troy_s> yep
[05:14] <troy_s> and the mailing list is going nuts
[05:14] <Who_> nuts?
[05:14] <Who_> what kind of nuts?
[05:14] <troy_s> completely bonkers
[05:14] <troy_s> um like 50 mails
[05:14] <troy_s> in about 3 seconds
[05:15] <Who_> I haven't got them yet!
[05:15] <Who_> in response to my email?
[05:16] <troy_s> i will launchpad
[05:16] <troy_s> the poll...
[05:16] <troy_s> is it as you have it there who?
[05:17] <troy_s> for what it is worth, even though it won't get done correctly...
[05:17] <Who_> can you link me?
[05:18] <troy_s> hold.
[05:18] <Who_> Troy: I see no mails to the list about it...? maybe gmail is slow?
[05:18] <troy_s> who
[05:18] <troy_s> can you tell me:
[05:19] <troy_s> we must axe how many
[05:19] <troy_s> and how many stay?
[05:19] <troy_s> quick... i want to get it up.
[05:19] <troy_s> Who?
[05:19] <Who_> we need to axe none! we need to decde which icons to apply to each theme
[05:20] <Who_> or to axe them
[05:20] <Who_> look at the wiki page, it more or less explains
[05:22] <Who_> troy_s: are there replies to my email on the mailing list? cos if not then we need to do something - no-one has edited the wiki...
[05:23] <troy_s> dammit
[05:23] <troy_s> this polling thing would be nice if i had like six minutes to get the damn thing out.
[05:23] <troy_s> time issues... working.
[05:25] <troy_s> pascal
[05:25] <Who_> kelpas: Ideas on the themes and icons?
[05:25] <klepas> keep Tango, Tangerine and Human
[05:25] <Who_> I need to do it now cos Daniel needs the decisions and files
[05:25] <klepas> i don't mind about the rest particularly :)
[05:25] <Who_> we do keep the cions we have to apply icons to themes
[05:25] <klepas> and i'm off for some much needed sleep
[05:26] <Who_> okay, can you just add your name to the wiki for each option before you go?
[05:26] <klepas> as it's getting earlier by the minute and i've got classes today :)
[05:26] <klepas> sure
[05:26] <Who_> you know which page?
[05:27] <Who_> troy_s - could you get your name on the wiki too, please?
[05:27] <troy_s> yah...
[05:27] <troy_s> ok it was brutal and it sucks, but launchpad now has a poll listed.
[05:28] <troy_s> lord knows that i was supposed to understand how to to it from the outset with no prior knowledge.
[05:29] <Who_> now we have two polls - does that help?
[05:29] <klepas> and no options :)
[05:29] <klepas> and no permission to add any
[05:30] <klepas> bah
[05:30] <klepas> ah well
[05:30] <klepas> i'll add my name in the wiki
[05:30] <klepas> as i really need to be off
[05:30] <Who_> I still see no options. Can we _please_ just use the wiki for now
[05:30] <bersace> Who_: we vote using the wiki ?
[05:30] <Who_> I'd like it to be like that
[05:30] <klepas> yea
[05:30] <Who_> the wiki works no whereas Launchpad will take some time
[05:30] <klepas> just this one last time
[05:31] <troy_s> launchpad is done
[05:31] <troy_s> not correct
[05:31] <troy_s> but done
[05:31] <troy_s> i guessed on the times...
[05:31] <troy_s> life moves on
[05:31] <troy_s> i at least knew where the hell to go with it.
[05:32] <Who_> Please note that IndustrialInspirate looks really good with Tango :)
[05:32] <troy_s> blah... just make a decision.  daniel needs one.
[05:32] <troy_s> at this point, it is completely throwing darts at a board.
[05:32] <Who_> I have :)
[05:32] <troy_s> (well a little better than that, but alas, crisis)
[05:33] <klepas> what is this T.I.F.O?
[05:33] <bersace> Who_: voted
[05:33] <Who_> troy_s: I'm just trying to sway the directino of your darts :)
[05:33] <Who_> bersace: Thanks :)
[05:33] <bersace> shit
[05:33] <bersace> someone vote during me :)
[05:33] <troy_s> Yah i just put use use use...
[05:33] <troy_s> laf love the wiki for crisis laf.
[05:33] <bersace> klepas !!!!! :)
[05:33] <klepas> sorry, these tables are annoying
[05:34] <klepas> there we go
[05:34] <klepas> :)
[05:34] <klepas> all happy now
[05:34] <Who_> bersace: I can't see your votes yet?
[05:34] <klepas> as i was editig
[05:34] <klepas> bersace: go for it now :)
[05:34] <bersace> :)
[05:34] <troy_s> tables are annoying, but this structure is worse :)
[05:34] <troy_s> see where i was going the last week or so pascal?
[05:35] <troy_s> and finally mark stood up so hopefully people will listen now.
[05:35] <bersace> job done
[05:35] <klepas> :)
[05:35] <Who_> cool
[05:35] <troy_s> poke poke
[05:35] <klepas> alrighty, that's it for me.
[05:35] <troy_s> thanks for at least trying pas.
[05:35] <klepas> huh?
[05:35] <Who_> thanks bersace
[05:36] <bersace> i find that voting with a wiki is quite ugly
[05:36] <klepas> interesting...
[05:36] <klepas> revision problem.
[05:36] <klepas> one moment
[05:36] <klepas> no one editing i hope as i fix a vote
[05:37] <Who_> guys, I have to step out for 15 mins, but I'll be back - I have a feeling it's gonna fall to me to do the final pre-packaging for sending to Daniel (as in I told him I would )
[05:38] <Who_> but I still don't see anything on the ML!?
[05:38] <klepas> well i am off
[05:38] <klepas> sleep
[05:38] <klepas> cheerio folks
[05:38] <Who_> seeya
[05:41] <troy_s> who run with it... at least you are here.
[05:41] <bersace> troy_s: do you wanna icons and hackergotchi for ubuntu-art  on launchpad ?
[05:41] <troy_s> yah i'll get to that...
[05:41] <troy_s> scrambling... must make coffee for wifey
[05:42] <bersace> Who_: hh ! : http://wikipoll.free.fr/mediawiki-1.6.5/index.php?title=Main_Page
[05:44] <troy_s> well this sucks
[05:45] <troy_s> i can' t add ubuntu-art mailing list as a contact until it gets confirmed... and i think the spam trap caught it.
[05:45] <troy_s> grr.
[05:47] <bersace> i also tryed it for ubuntu-artwork :)
[05:47] <troy_s> did the spam trap catch it ber?
[05:48] <bersace> yes
[05:48] <troy_s> feck
[05:48] <bersace> i never received any mail
[05:48] <troy_s> welp pretty sure that henrik can force it.
[05:49] <troy_s> needless to say, we are going to need more admins...
[05:50] <bersace> i think so
[05:50] <bersace> admin can't make admin ...
[05:51] <troy_s> i think they can
[05:51] <troy_s> actually...
[05:51] <bersace> troy_s: all you want : http://bersace03.free.fr/pub/Ubuntu/Artwork/Team/
[05:52] <troy_s> nope
[05:52] <troy_s> yer right
[05:52] <troy_s> only owner
[05:52] <bersace> hh
[05:52] <troy_s> and our owner is a little ... lax
[05:52] <troy_s> thanks ber...
[05:56] <troy_s> etienne
[05:56] <troy_s> can you update the wiki link to point to the ubuntu-art launchpad team now
[05:56] <troy_s> i obsoleted the other one
[05:56] <troy_s> although more work needs to be done of course.
[05:57] <bersace> k
[05:58] <bersace> troy_s: avoid "here" link every were
[05:59] <bersace> people have to read entire sentense in order to understand the links
[05:59] <bersace> that's anoying
[05:59] <bersace> and google don't read the sentences before "here"
[06:05] <Who_> tory_s: Can I confirm something please: I ahve had 1 reply to the mail Urgetn: Themes and Icons - hoave you had loads?
[06:06] <Who_> troy_s: see above - typo on the name :)
[06:11] <bersace> troy_s: Mark set 3 administrator. They seems to be that core of Art Team Leader
[06:11] <bersace> don't expect more admins :)
[06:12] <troy_s> well i asked him
[06:12] <troy_s> because let's see... i don't know franks aptitude with launch tech etc
[06:12] <troy_s> joel is ...?
[06:12] <troy_s> and i am a busy bugger.
[06:12] <troy_s> so we need more.  period.
[06:13] <troy_s> who:  if you package, go with your guts.  less is more.  more is bugs.
[06:13] <bersace> troy_s: we should avoid discussion on wiki
[06:13] <troy_s> it has to get done, and you appear to be in a position to do something about it.
[06:13] <bersace> such as https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Meetings/Agenda
[06:13] <troy_s> ber:  we need to formalize in document form how stuffs gets done.
[06:13] <troy_s> that is a paper trail -- it should be a byproduct of the mailing list
[06:14] <bersace> That's really annoying
[06:14] <troy_s> yah but it needs to be documented and centralized.  everyone has been very nonchalant about the whole mess up to mark stepping in and saying we need guidelines etc...
[06:14] <troy_s> something i have been harping on for oh... a while.
[06:16] <bersace> troy_s: yes, i also ask for guideline for some weeks ago ...
[06:16] <Who_> OK, I'm gonna do the packaging in 20 mins
[06:17] <Who_> I think we all knew we need a clear leader - I think Mark thought Joel was the leader
[06:17] <troy_s> joel is not the leader, he is the owner of the launchpad team
[06:17] <troy_s> if you do a little leg work you can see that...
[06:18] <Who_> megabyte405: anything to say on the Icons/Thmese front
[06:18] <troy_s> and owners (if you run a test team) have ultimate control over the team
[06:18] <megabyte405> I'm updating now to see waht they look like
[06:18] <megabyte405> that's why I came in
[06:18] <troy_s> icons/themes are a lot of work.  we need to target things specifically.
[06:18] <Who_> troy_s: yea, I know that! I just think Mark saw him as the leader of the team...
[06:18] <troy_s> who:  i don't believe so.
[06:18] <troy_s> who:  mark has been harping on about leadership now for a while, and NOTHING has gotten done.
[06:19] <Who_> updating isn't going to work, there is a big bug that we will sort out at the same time as fixing the icons problem
[06:19] <troy_s> I tried to restructure the wiki a little better and the only things I see for it in the mailing list is gripes from b.
[06:19] <troy_s> meaning we need design docs
[06:19] <troy_s> and an orderly way to get things put on the mailing list etc...
[06:19] <Who_> troy_s: ahh, well ok then - I only joined about 3 months ago, maybe fewer...
[06:19] <troy_s> ok outt for family.
[06:20] <Who_> megabyte405: have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/DapperThemes_OLD
[06:20] <megabyte405> it would be really great if there actually was an orgazational structure - using launchapd and whatever tools we haven't so it's not a freeforall for 5 months - I know someone mailed against that idea, but i think it's quite important.
[06:20] <megabyte405> yeah
[06:21] <dinda> <-- new member hoping to help next time around :)
[06:21] <troy_s> yep
[06:21] <troy_s> in a community
[06:21] <troy_s> EVERYONE contributes
[06:21] <troy_s> a little
[06:21] <troy_s> i am going to be too busy to keep everyone on the same page.
[06:22] <troy_s> but i will hopefully get a few fundamental docs in place
[06:22] <troy_s> everyone right now can help out by shushing and trying to at least attack a few tasks on the tasks page
[06:22] <troy_s> because i can't do that work, so i need help.
[06:22] <troy_s> deal?
[06:22] <troy_s> that means everyone in here steps up and does some work.
[06:22] <troy_s> thanks for your help.
[06:23] <troy_s> (legwork thru mailing list would be a good start)
[06:23] <troy_s> then at least we have centralized a few items.
[06:23] <megabyte405> still care for any thoughts on the themes here quickly?
[06:23] <troy_s> themes?
[06:23] <troy_s> in what respect?
[06:23] <troy_s> they are a huge deal
[06:23] <megabyte405> the icon sets
[06:23] <troy_s> well hopefully we can attack them in detail with a little more structure.
[06:23] <Who_> yeas please :)
[06:24] <megabyte405> industrialinspirate == industrialXT?  if so, then tango
[06:24] <Who_> cool
[06:24] <Who_> megabyte504: can you add your names to the wiki page?
[06:24] <megabyte405> ok
[06:24] <Who_> troy: about the close icon bug, the icond dude (canonical hired) will deal with it
[06:25] <Who_> the website should be dealt with by submissions to Henrik who who will chose what he wants
[06:31] <Who_> megabyte405: you done?
[06:31] <megabyte405> just about
[06:31] <Who_> megabyte405: I see no votes but I'm gonn have to make the packages very soon
[06:31] <megabyte405> just hit save
[06:32] <Who_> megabyte405: sorry to push you - but I feel sorry for Daniel who has to package iot before release!
[06:32] <troy_s> add your names to launchpad
[06:32] <troy_s> as well
[06:32] <megabyte405> Yeah, I know
[06:32] <megabyte405> Just got up
[06:32] <troy_s> daniel does a ridiculous amount of work
[06:32] <megabyte405> yeah, did so already
[06:32] <troy_s> we also need to locate people who can pacakge
[06:32] <troy_s> who you know what youa re doing
[06:32] <troy_s> so maybe start documenting HOW you do it in the wiki in content
[06:32] <troy_s> i'll edit it later.
[06:32] <troy_s> okie?
[06:32] <megabyte405> there it's all up
[06:33] <Who_> lol, I'm making theme tarballs, not deb packages :)
[06:34] <Who_> but I can write up how to do that, though there are lots of good tutorials I could link to
[06:34] <troy_s> well no one knows how
[06:34] <troy_s> and there wont be one person who can do it
[06:34] <troy_s> i dont mind editing
[06:34] <troy_s> even how to tarball is handy
[06:34] <troy_s> people need knowledge to particpate
[06:35] <troy_s> like even i don't know what composes a theme in total, so maybe list the items?
[06:35] <Who_> okie, after I've done these
[06:35] <troy_s> great
[06:36] <troy_s> and _that_, as insignificant as it seems, is progress
[06:36] <Who_> megabyte405: lol, look what you've done! it's a draw for Silicon and Dapper Drake. We're gonna have to wait for another voter
[06:36] <megabyte405> oops
[06:36] <megabyte405> I didn't think it was going to be a draw...
[06:36] <Who_> lol - worry not :)
[06:36] <megabyte405> let me look again
[06:37] <Who_> I think it's best we just wait - no need to change
[06:37] <bersace> Who_: i may change my mind if needed :)
[06:37] <megabyte405> oh, yeah, sure enough
[06:37] <megabyte405> I didn't really pay attention to the axe column, since I think they are nice themes
[06:37] <Who_> well, give it 5 mins
[06:38] <Who_> dholbach: you still around?
[06:40] <dholbach> yes, but incredibly busy
[06:40] <troy_s> don't think about nice
[06:41] <troy_s> think about hte implications if we stick things in that are untested
[06:41] <troy_s> my humble 2 pennies
[06:41] <troy_s> bugs come up, and we all look bad ...
[06:41] <troy_s> it is better to include nothing and have it work than much and cause problems for the next cycle doing nothing but fixing.
[06:42] <Who_> dholbach: how is it easiest for me to give you the fixed themes, as one tarball with the folder structure that needs to be in /usr/share/themes already there or as individual theme tarballs?
[06:42] <dholbach> fixed themes?
[06:43] <Who_> dholbach: the them files with the icons that we don't have changed
[06:43] <Who_> dholbach: getting rid of the references to icons we don't have and replacing theme with ones we do
[06:43] <dholbach> yeah send me a tarball
[06:47] <bersace> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ship-selected-desktop-theme
[06:56] <Who_> OK, I'd love it if someone could test these fixed up themes for me
[06:57] <Who_> They work here but this is a get-it-right-first time situation!
[06:58] <Who_> troy_s or bersace, want to change your vote for DapperDrake to swing it either to axing, Human or Tango?
[06:58] <bersace> Tango
[06:58] <Who_> ok
[06:58] <bersace> ah no
[06:59] <bersace> this is for Silicon
[06:59] <bersace> Who_: I change for Silicon to Tango
[06:59] <troy_s> treat all my votes towards axeing
[06:59] <troy_s> period
[06:59] <troy_s> too little too late
[06:59] <troy_s> hopefully that swings it.
[06:59] <Who_> troy_s: you just created anoter draw on Dapper Drake
[07:00] <bersace> i updated my vote
[07:00] <bersace> on the wiki
[07:00] <Who_> thanks
[07:00] <troy_s> who's doing the work, he is the final arbitrator
[07:00] <Who_> bersace:not for DapperDrake, I fear
[07:01] <troy_s> the default install is the most important
[07:01] <bersace> i just changed Silicon
[07:01] <troy_s> and it is there.
[07:01] <troy_s> the rest are on the periphery
[07:01] <bersace> i still want to drop DapperDrake
[07:01] <Who_> okay, troy does to so it's going bye-bye
[07:01] <Who_> bvc will _not_ be happy
[07:01] <troy_s> life moves on
[07:01] <bersace> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/DapperThemes_OLD?action=diff&rev2=17&rev1=16
[07:01] <troy_s> i would rather have NONE at half ass
[07:02] <troy_s> than sixteen
[07:02] <bersace> Who_: viper550 is also unhappy, i guess
[07:02] <Who_> why? was it his?
[07:02] <troy_s> its too fricking late to be worrying abou tfeelings
[07:02] <troy_s> we need decisiveness at this point
[07:02] <bersace> ^^
[07:03] <troy_s> whatever is 'close' we run with who...
[07:03] <troy_s> you are doing the work, so put aesthetic judgement aside and figure out what is close to 'finished'
[07:03] <Who_> troy_s: if you stand up for that on the list, I'll go with it
[07:03] <troy_s> and use that as a final arbitrating vote.
[07:03] <troy_s> i'll back any decision you make
[07:03] <troy_s> if you think they aren't finished
[07:03] <troy_s> leave them out
[07:03] <troy_s> if you think they are
[07:03] <troy_s> then go with it.
[07:03] <troy_s> we need some bloody democracy
[07:03] <troy_s> and YOU are doing the work.
[07:04] <bersace> i revert my vote
[07:04] <bersace> :D
[07:05] <bersace> note that according to Mark, we should consider the vote of leader weighted than others
[07:06] <troy_s> we don't have a leader
[07:08] <Who_> bersace: can I get this clear, you want to get rid of silicon, cos that is one of the ones that looks better now
[07:08] <bersace> Who_: sorry for confusion
[07:09] <bersace> troy_s: we have 3 leaders
[07:09] <bersace> the 3 admin mark select
[07:09] <bersace> troy_s: you included !
[07:09] <bersace> Who_: i want to drop Silicon because it does not have decent icon set
[07:09] <Who_> okay
[07:11] <bersace> according to https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art, our core team leader are Andreas, Frank and Troy
[07:11] <bersace> That is the sabdfl choice :)
[07:12] <Who_> I think after the meeting he will fix it to the leaders we as a team choose
[07:12] <troy_s> mark has been clear
[07:12] <troy_s> he wants the organization and structure to come OUT of the community
[07:12] <troy_s> he won't do the dictator thing unless it is causing him grief
[07:12] <troy_s> which today, hit a hilt regarding this issue.
[07:13] <troy_s> I consider myself as nothing more than an admin on launchpad, and i have already made it clear that we need more.
[07:13] <troy_s> THAT said
[07:13] <troy_s> we are in a crunch
[07:13] <troy_s> and unfortunately, as the guy who is packaging.
[07:13] <troy_s> and willing ot package
[07:13] <troy_s> who you get a pretty big vote.
[07:14] <troy_s> ber has made his thoughts clear... pascal had a vote. etc
[07:14] <troy_s> unfortunately, due to lack of structure, it is going to be flawed.  period.
[07:15] <troy_s> we just need to run with what we have and work from there.  that's all there is to it.
[07:15] <troy_s> who:  whats the current state of affairs ?
[07:15] <troy_s> how many 'extra' themes are going in?
[07:17] <bersace> Who_: ok, to solve the problem, i switch to Tango for DapperDrake
[07:17] <Who_> 5, Indust, HumanLegacy, Resilience, Gray, Dapper
[07:17] <troy_s> et, can i edit your spec at some point?
[07:18] <troy_s> this has nothing to do with the default desktop everyone is faced with correct?  these are purely additionals.
[07:18] <troy_s> ???
[07:21] <troy_s> et that spec is a too loose and too hastey
[07:21] <troy_s> i think we shouldn't start submitting specs just quite yet.  wiki your thoughts first then draft.
[07:24] <dholbach> once you are happy with all your changes, can you send me a tarball with all of that?
[07:24] <dholbach> that'd be really nice
[07:25] <Who_> dholbach: it'll be there in 5 mins
[07:25] <Who_> or let me say 30 and have some more checking (testing) time with the group :)
[07:26] <dholbach> ok
[07:27] <Who_> please can someone here volunteer to test these packages!
[07:27] <Who_> (not packages, but you all know what I mean)
[07:28] <troy_s> Who:  thank you very much for pacakging that up
[07:28] <troy_s> you stepped up when others just bickered.
[07:28] <troy_s> we will simply need to deal with the bugs as they flow now.
[07:40] <Who_> billy doesn't seem to understand I'm including Dapper!
[07:41] <troy_s> billy is
[07:41] <troy_s> a lot of mail
[07:42] <troy_s> this is brutal.
[07:45] <bersace> troy_s: sorry, i was at diner
[07:45] <Who_> did you read Billy's 'attack' on me - didn't appreciate that - made it private at first then public!
[07:45] <bersace> troy_s: i remove that specs
[07:46] <bersace> uggh
[07:46] <bersace> that's seems not possible :(
[07:46] <bersace> i downgraded it to braindump
[07:48] <Who_> bersace: can you test this theme tarball I have?
[07:48] <bersace> where to download ?
[07:48] <troy_s> who:  dude i have a mailbox full
[07:49] <bersace> lol
[07:49] <troy_s> who:  use your sense of ubuntu spirit to make the best decision
[07:49] <troy_s> NO in their right mind is going to fault you because you decided to show up for work.
[07:49] <troy_s> i am trying to figure out launchpad and negotiate a family / career
[07:51] <troy_s> who:  you are dealing with it very gracefully.  just keep it up.  we need supporters not f*cking detractors.
[07:51] <troy_s> who:  it is all fine and dandy to have really lovely opinions and flood the mailing list, but if you don't ultimately put up -- shut up.
[07:54] <Who_> troy_s: lol. I'm just checking it :)
[07:56] <bersace> Who_: where is that tarballs ?
[07:56] <Who_> I'm about to email them...sorry]
[07:56] <bersace> ok
[07:58] <Who_> on the list
[08:02] <bersace> Who_: yes !
[08:02] <bersace> that's quite good !
[08:06] <Who_> so it works, properly, all themes?
[08:06] <Who_> cos I'll email Daniel then
[08:08] <msikma> Finally home
[08:08] <bersace> yes
[08:08] <msikma> So what's the word? Has the themes thing been resolved?
[08:08] <msikma> Has LegacyHuman been accounted for?
[08:09] <bersace> yes
[08:09] <bersace> nice to see it again :)
[08:09] <msikma> Wow, that's incredible. Awesome work, those of you who got the job done. :)
[08:10] <Who_> msikma, I'd love it if you could try out the theme packages I just sent to the list, as many computers as poss is better - it would be really hasslesome to have to fix typos this late :)
[08:11] <msikma> I'll try to help, but I haven't even had the time to grab the latest RC yet... and I still have something to finish. I'll grab the RC now and then get the themes tonight.
[08:13] <Who_> well, they can be tested without rc - as in, it is just a tar.bz2 that I am about to email to Daniel with the folder structure to go in /usr/share/themes
[08:14] <msikma> Ah, right. Well, then I'll just fire up my old laptop that's running Breezy.
[08:14] <Who_> msikma: (beware of not having Ubuntulooks)
[08:18] <troy_s> greets mich
[08:23] <troy_s> ok guys read that mail
[08:23] <troy_s> i just posted it to the list...
[08:23] <troy_s> i had to happen, sorry.
[08:23] <troy_s> it had to happen.
[08:32] <bersace> troy_s: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+edithackergotchi to add the big logo
[08:33] <troy_s> ber: okie.
[08:33] <troy_s> where is the image?
[08:34] <troy_s> etienne?
[08:35] <bersace> troy_s: i sent you the link earlier
[08:35] <bersace> http://bersace03.free.fr/pub/Ubuntu and follow links
[08:35] <troy_s> and et, I can't seem to find a way to get rid of the double ubuntuwiki crap at the top of launchpad
[08:36] <troy_s> nor how to send mail to everyone without having that damn email approved... grr...
[08:36] <troy_s> cool thanks for the links... i'll add em
[08:37] <troy_s> done et.
[08:38] <bersace> troy_s: try /+edithomepage
[08:38] <bersace> for double links.
[08:41] <Who_> I'm sending to Daniel now
[08:42] <troy_s> ???
[08:42] <troy_s> ber?
[08:42] <troy_s> nice work who!
[08:44] <troy_s> christ i am not going to have a family after this.  we _really_ need to decide on who else is going to administer the launchpad site... frank and joel haven't checked in frequently enough.
[08:44] <bersace> re
[08:44] <troy_s> bersace thanks for your streamlining of the wiki stuff.
[08:44] <troy_s> it looks terrific... short and clean
[08:44] <troy_s> very nice.
[08:45] <bersace> you should really avoid those here link
[08:45] <troy_s> try to keep internal wiki refs to [wiki:Self]  format as opposed to external links.
[08:45] <Who_> dholbach: Themes in your inbox, ready to go.
[08:45] <troy_s> why?
[08:45] <troy_s> oh
[08:45] <troy_s> i see
[08:45] <dholbach> Who_: thanks
[08:45] <Who_> dholbach: Thanks a lot, no photos on any dartboards, we promise
[08:45] <troy_s> you mean include greater information where they link
[08:45] <troy_s> daniel you rock
[08:45] <troy_s> appreciate all of your hard work to make ubuntu what it is.
[08:45] <dholbach> thanks guys.
[08:46] <dholbach> you rock too and in Edgy you'll have all the time and space to freak out
[08:46] <dholbach> and do whatever you like :)
[08:46] <Who_> right. Time for a break! see you all soon
[08:46] <Who_> bye. Thanks all
[08:47] <bersace> troy_s: links MUST be meaning ful or else, people have to read the contextual text to understand the link when they do not read the entire page
[08:47] <dholbach> thanks
[08:47] <bersace> Who_: thanks
[08:47] <bersace> troy_s: also, googlebot wants meaningful links
[08:48] <bersace> troy_s: and when you search links with any browser, you do not search "here"
[08:49] <bersace> troy_s: naming pages is also a critical issue in wiki, we should care to have heavy meaningful title
[08:49] <bersace> default search is title search !
[08:49] <bersace> e.g. i don't understand the meaning of ArtworkTeam/Content
[08:50] <bersace> What does that mean ???
[08:50] <bersace> meaningless title lead to mess in wiki
[08:50] <bersace> see all /Content sub pages ...
[08:51] <bersace> What a mess !
[08:51] <bersace> troy_s: do you allow me to rename pages ?
[08:52] <bersace> we should have a ArtworkTeam/Themes pages gathering themes review and projects
[08:52] <bersace> We should have a ArtworkTeam/Guidelines
[08:52] <bersace> That includes DevelopmentProcedure etc.
[08:53] <bersace> troy_s: don't you ?
[08:54] <troy_s> yep
[08:54] <troy_s> agree
[08:55] <troy_s> i just put 'content' there to collect existing pages.
[08:55] <troy_s> its a start, nothing more
[08:55] <troy_s> if you can see better structure, i would do it
[08:55] <troy_s> but try to keep the draft there for now
[08:55] <troy_s> everything else clean up as you can...
[08:55] <troy_s> i agree100% ... the wiki was a bloody outdated mess
[08:55] <troy_s> dapperblahb lahblah edgy blahb lahblahb
[08:55] <troy_s> everything scattered everywhere is useless.
[08:56] <troy_s> you there ber?
[08:56] <troy_s> the way i see it, pages suffer from LACK of contents and subpages listing (tried to establish a template on this)
[08:56] <troy_s> LACk of structure -- ramble on and on and not scannable.
[08:57] <troy_s> LACK of organization structure as you have just noted.
[09:02] <troy_s> u there et?
[09:03] <bersace> re
[09:34] <troy_s> sorry ber.. i was flooding the channel.
[09:35] <bersace> k
[09:46] <bersace> troy_s: Do we still ned the table used for the vote ??
[09:46] <troy_s> probably not... but we need a place
[09:46] <troy_s> to record events as they have transpired...
[09:46] <troy_s> communitychangelog
[09:46] <troy_s> as it were
[10:02] <bersace> where is the mail where sabdfl says it's point of view about the structure of the team ?
[10:03] <troy_s> check the archives
[10:03] <troy_s> at the mailing list signup zone
[10:03] <troy_s> you can search thru the entire month in plain text...
[10:04] <bersace> found https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-May/001673.html
[10:04] <troy_s> i think if you go to
[10:04] <troy_s> the ArtworkTeam/Meetings/Agenda Pascal has two links.
[10:04] <troy_s> to the mail.
[10:04] <troy_s> it is around there somewhere.
[10:10] <troy_s> Hey etienne
[10:10] <troy_s> Great streamlining.
[10:11] <Who_> troy_s: Mind if I have a look at getting rid of the second wiki link in LP homepage?
[10:11] <bersace> troy_s: if you want to warn me using IRC, type bersace and then xchat-gnome warn me up
[10:11] <bersace> not etienne, et, ber, etc.
[10:11] <bersace> :)
[10:12] <troy_s> cool
[10:12] <troy_s> bersace:  Need links on how to get onto irc, the mailing list, within our wiki
[10:12] <bersace> no
[10:13] <bersace> we should put one for all the wiki
[10:13] <bersace> not just for ArtworkTeam
[10:13] <bersace> and it should already exists
[10:13] <bersace> it might
[10:13] <bersace> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat?action=show&redirect=IRC
[10:14] <troy_s> and the new pages you put in need to have contents and subpages listings to keep it cohesive... namely Guidelines to start.
[10:16] <troy_s> We will also need to get that dev doc in place or _a_ dev doc, so at least make it so people can find it...
[10:16] <troy_s> So that should be very frontal.
[10:16] <troy_s> No documentation == no progress
[10:16] <bersace> i suggest to add subpages section for subpagesful pages
[10:16] <Who_> bersace + troy_s: I know you've been on this wiki mission for a while now, are you gonna send a list of what you've done to us all - I've rather lost track!
[10:17] <bersace> Who_: just subscribe to wikipages :)
[10:17] <Who_> ohhhhh, cunning :)
[10:17] <bersace> Who_: we will make ArtworkTeam a real homepage
[10:17] <Who_> bersace: (from the wiki or in LP, or what?)
[10:17] <bersace> that guide everyone to the rest of our "webspace"
[10:17] <bersace> Who_: from the wiki
[10:18] <bersace> after Edit
[10:18] <Who_> what's the volume like?
[10:19] <troy_s> Who:  I just tried to root it all, bersace has been doing a lot of the legwork.
[10:20] <bersace> Who_: every edition, you get the diff
[10:20] <bersace> the author
[10:20] <bersace> and the message
[10:21] <troy_s> bersace:  I do think we need to have contents on every page for when the page gets long.
[10:21] <troy_s> and the subpage listing...
[10:22] <bersace> troy_s: i suggest to adde them as page get long but :)
[10:22] <bersace> as needed
[10:22] <bersace> but you can if you want
[10:22] <bersace> no matter
[10:26] <troy_s> let's just keep everything the same.
[10:26] <troy_s> it looks more professional.
[10:26] <bersace> troy_s: i mean that pages without subpages (such as Themes pages) should note haves subpages menus
[10:26] <troy_s> Also, we need to get a design document procedure in place.
[10:26] <troy_s> bersace -- that's fine but if they add one then it is automatically generated...
[10:27] <troy_s> hence putting it in accomodates the future.
[10:27] <troy_s> and thus far, guidelines doesn't encompass tools etc.
[10:27] <troy_s> Look at the document teams page
[10:28] <troy_s> and structure accordingly
[10:28] <troy_s> okie?
[10:30] <Who_> you guys still want a mini guide to writing a meta theme?
[10:31] <bersace> hh : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Themes/Template :)
[10:31] <troy_s> yep
[10:31] <troy_s> we need bloody docs on how to do everything
[10:31] <troy_s> they can evolve into full fledged documentation at some point
[10:31] <bersace> near Tools
[10:31] <troy_s> each thing requires tools, knowledge, etc.
[10:32] <troy_s> Not to mention to locate exactly what package everything belongs in.
[10:32] <troy_s> Tools depends on the target, so each 'target' will need it's own tools link to the tools main page
[10:32] <troy_s> with me?"
[10:32] <troy_s> tools page should have EVERYTHING on it, and anchors for reference from other pages.
[10:33] <Who_> troy_s: I think more constructive is a page of links on how to do it - we need not replicate stuff
[10:33] <bersace> yes
[10:34] <troy_s> who:  EXACTly
[10:34] <bersace> i think that we need a Documentation page
[10:34] <Who_> good call.
[10:34] <troy_s> off root... lets keep it clean.
[10:34] <bersace> which contain guidelines, tools, howto, and so on
[10:34] <Who_> I'm gonna have to take a rest
[10:34] <troy_s> Where is that draft right now bersace?
[10:34] <troy_s> who: ditto.
[10:34] <bersace> troy_s: wich draft ?
[10:34] <bersace> WideTheme ?
[10:34] <bersace> Developement ?
[10:35] <Who_> but on my list I have: New image for Henrik, Doc on how to do things
[10:37] <Who_> bye all
[10:44] <Orro> hey people, im about to start contributing, anybody active here?
[10:45] <bersace> yep
[10:45] <Orro> hi
[10:46] <bersace> our big bosses are troy_s, Frank and Andreas
[10:46] <bersace> currently, troy_s is the most active leader
[10:46] <bersace> i'm hardly workiing a building a real wiki space for ArtworkTeam
[10:46] <bersace> see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam
[10:46] <bersace> and subpages
[10:47] <Orro> i want to get involved with the project, ive just created a contribution for the recent "web page adjustment" - should i just upload my images to the sandbox? or should i clear them with people etc..
[10:47] <bersace> nop
[10:47] <bersace> send it to Henrik
[10:47] <Orro> ok
[10:47] <bersace> Henrik Nilsen Omma<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:48] <Orro> thanks ill do that now
[10:49] <bersace> Orro: thanks for you contribution
[10:54] <troy_s> ber, you will need to adjust the wiki to make sure that any existing links below artwork team work properly
[10:54] <troy_s> ;)
[10:54] <troy_s> that's the downside of moving pages.
[11:04] <troy_s> bersace also you will need to provide for drafts of NEW documents... put a place there where you can check and keep order if you are going to try and maintain a wiki structure.  people need to have a place to put fresh things.  put ALL things that haven't been finalized into DRAFTS so that people don't get the wrong impression.  Like WideTheme isn't useful yet, so keep it in drafts
[11:05] <bersace> ok
[11:06] <troy_s> and then you need to proof all your changes and you had better tell the list that you tried to do some structuring... and expect the explosion of backlash... :)
[11:06] <troy_s> 1) make sure all the links work
[11:06] <troy_s> 2) make sure it is clear where people should submit new things and how to do it
[11:07] <troy_s> 3) make sure all the links work :)
[11:07] <troy_s> subpages assumed a certain structure, and when that structure changes, it cascades.
[11:07] <troy_s> the only things that WONT require changes are the tables of contents and the subpages listings.
[11:07] <troy_s> because they are dynamic.
[11:07] <bersace> yep
[11:08] <troy_s> espeically tasks
[11:11] <bersace> troy_s: this is hard work to organise, your review is useful. Don't hesitate to check the link yoursefl
[11:39] <troy_s> bersace:  yeah you get a taste of what happens when things move too quick!
[11:40] <troy_s> bersace:  get it solid now, double check the links.  make sure it is clear from root for first time viewers
[11:41] <troy_s> bersace:  then post and hope that people offer some feedback.  i'll look in a while to see how it has flowed.  i intend on bringing up a list of things with mark in paris.  you should try to attend since you are already in france.
[11:43] <bersace> troy_s: sorry, but now, i work on my project report for school
[11:43] <troy_s> bersace:  first impression, it looks clean off root but where does a new user put the things?
[11:43] <bersace> Drafts/* :)
[11:43] <troy_s> just a thought.
[11:43] <troy_s> bersace:  great... but you need to let everyone know that off root or wherever... :)
[11:43] <bersace> you can do it
[11:44] <bersace> i'm busy
[11:47] <troy_s> bersace:  where did henriks submissions go?
[11:48] <troy_s> got it.
[11:48] <troy_s> nevermind


[05:37] <makx> fabbione: you might want latest klibc
[05:37] <makx> as the ubuntu klibc should not have compiled on sparc..
[05:37] <makx> jbailey send a nice fix for gcc-4 on sparc
[05:38] <makx> will add it for next upload, latest need to go to testing first
[05:49] <fabbione> makx: redundat information.. he did fix them right in front of me on my sparc :)
[06:20] <makx> fabbione: ok cool to know
[06:20] <makx> :)
[06:22] <makx> jbailey is in europe?
[06:27] <fabbione> makx: yeah about 2 mt from me
[06:29] <makx> ok cool send him greetings :)
[06:30] <makx> will he visit austria?
[06:34] <Kamion> .uk isn't trivially close to .at
[06:56] <makx> no
[06:57] <makx> but if one travels across europe you might cross it :)