[00:25] <mup> Bug #1456717 changed: TestUpgradeStepsStateServer fails <ci> <test-failure> <juju-core:Invalid> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1456717>
[00:25] <mup> Bug #1532849 changed: precise-amd64 and trusty-ppc64el unittests do not complete <ci> <ppc64el> <precise> <regression> <unit-tests> <juju-ci-tools:Fix Released by sinzui> <juju-core:Won't Fix> <juju-core service-to-application:Won't Fix> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1532849>
[00:25] <mup> Bug #1568150 changed: xenial lxc containers not starting <cpec> <cloud-init:Fix Committed> <juju-core:Invalid> <cloud-init (Ubuntu):Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568150>
[00:57]  * thumper goes to make lunch while the merge into model-migrations hopefully lands
[01:53] <mup> Bug #1603841 opened: delete support for legacy models.yaml/accounts.yaml format <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1603841>
[01:59] <mup> Bug #1603841 changed: delete support for legacy models.yaml/accounts.yaml format <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1603841>
[02:05] <mup> Bug #1603841 opened: delete support for legacy models.yaml/accounts.yaml format <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1603841>
[02:09] <thumper> I have a test that is trying to read a charm from the charm dir of a unit agent
[02:10] <thumper> obviously in the test it is unlikely to be there
[02:10] <thumper> the worker can't be patched from the outside
[02:10] <thumper> so I'd like to copy the test charm into the agent worker dir for the test
[02:10] <thumper> anyone know of places where we do this?
[02:11] <anastasiamac> thumper: we have charms we use for tests... neither of them work? u cannot add anothe test charm?
[02:12] <thumper> actually...
[02:12] <thumper> I think it is working
[02:12] <thumper> but due to various parts of the system not sharing the testing clock
[02:12] <thumper> it takes 3s for it to notice
[02:12]  * thumper fires up the windows laptop to test
[02:23] <mup> Bug #1602935 changed: Juju 2.0 DB2 charm giving error while deployed using ZFS as storage backend   <charmstore:New> <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1602935>
[04:20] <mup> Bug #1582667 changed: i/o timeout when deploying/upgrading charm <juju-core:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1582667>
[04:41] <mup> Bug #1582667 opened: i/o timeout when deploying/upgrading charm <juju-core:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1582667>
[04:47] <wallyworld> axw: when you get a chance, no rush, would appreciate a review on http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/5256/
[04:47] <mup> Bug #1582667 changed: i/o timeout when deploying/upgrading charm <juju-core:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1582667>
[05:05] <axw> wallyworld: will do a bit later, trying to finish up this modelcmd branch
[05:05] <wallyworld> yep, no rush
[05:37] <menn0> wallyworld or axw: this just happened to me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/19866993/
[05:38] <menn0> known issue?
[05:38] <axw> menn0: not known to me
[05:38] <wallyworld> hmmmm, not seen that before
[05:39] <wallyworld> it must be intermittent because i've bootstrapped with bets13
[05:39] <menn0> wallyworld, axw: it's intermittent for me too (only happened once).
[05:40] <wallyworld> bug time
[05:40] <menn0> wallyworld, axw: I /was/ boostrapping 2 controllers concurrently
[05:40] <menn0> wallyworld, axw: I'll try to repro and will write up a ticket
[05:43] <menn0> wallyworld, axw: I just made it happen again, so it's not too hard to repro
[05:43] <axw> :(
[05:44] <wallyworld> might be the 2 concurrently thing
[05:45] <axw> wallyworld: I'm guessing it's related to dropping bootstrap config fallback, since that's the biggest change recently related to login I think
[05:45] <axw> probably something wasn't quite right before, and it was falling back silently. just a guess tho
[05:46] <wallyworld> could be. there was also a change to check for controler api addresses being present, or else bootstrap was considered not to be finished, but actually, i think that went away when the fallback was dropped
[06:29] <mup> Bug #1603865 opened: migration: cater for virt-type constraint <juju-core:Triaged by anastasia-macmood> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1603865>
[07:54] <wallyworld> axw: and here's the fix for determining model config value source http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/5258/
[07:57] <axw> wallyworld: sorry this change is taking ages :/  I'll probably be working later on, so will look later if I don't get to it soon
[07:57] <wallyworld> axw: no worries
[07:59] <mup> Bug #1594665 changed: reboot-executor is missing from the list of workers <juju-core:Invalid by fwereade> <juju-core model-migration:Fix Committed by fwereade> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1594665>
[08:08] <mup> Bug #1594665 opened: reboot-executor is missing from the list of workers <juju-core:Invalid by fwereade> <juju-core model-migration:Fix Committed by fwereade> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1594665>
[08:17] <mup> Bug #1594665 changed: reboot-executor is missing from the list of workers <juju-core:Invalid by fwereade> <juju-core model-migration:Fix Committed by fwereade> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1594665>
[08:20] <axw> wallyworld: how are we supposed to tie-break config source names?
[08:20] <axw> currently taking the last match, just wondering if that was on purpose
[08:20] <wallyworld> axw: there will be a fixed set (default, controller, region)
[08:21] <wallyworld> default is defaults from code
[08:21] <wallyworld> region not done yet
[08:21] <axw> wallyworld: yep. so if the default is the same in all three, and the value is default, what should the source be?
[08:21] <axw> I would have thought "default", rather than "region"
[08:22] <axw> most general, rather than most specific
[08:22] <wallyworld> i have currently done it to pick the most specific other than model, because we want to show the user what they would get if the unset a model attribute and caused the default to be used
[08:23] <wallyworld> there's a separate model-tree command to show the source of config values
[08:24] <wallyworld> so if i have set apt-mirror in my model, and I unset it, what value would be used. that's what Default will need to show, hence we want the most specific value in get-model-config output
[08:26] <mup> Bug #1603888 opened: be able to specify "--bind" for bundle deployments <binding> <bundles> <network> <ux> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1603888>
[08:29] <axw> wallyworld: if they're all the same, it's also valid to say that it'll be set to the controller or default, so I don't see how saying that it's going to be set to the region value is any more helpful
[08:29] <axw> (nor is saying the others, that's just what *I* expected)
[08:30] <wallyworld> axw: side issue - we won't show region specifically as a source AFAIK
[08:30] <axw> ok
[08:30] <wallyworld> just default / controller / model
[08:31] <wallyworld> the spec is a little vague
[08:32] <wallyworld> axw: the reason for saying the source is the most specific also means that you can reason ablout what would happen if you updated the more specific value and then created a new model
[08:34] <axw> wallyworld: ok. had to reset my brain a bit, I get it now
[08:34] <wallyworld> axw: no worries, i still need to think a bit each time
[08:44] <axw> wallyworld: I've redone http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/5205/, could you please take a look - tomorrow is fine
[09:03] <jam> babbageclunk: standup?
[09:03] <babbageclunk> oops, omw
[09:04] <jam> babbageclunk: I just mean stand up, there's something on your chair :)
[09:10] <wallyworld> axw: looking in a bit
[09:35] <mup> Bug #1603910 opened: model-level log forwarding not supported <oil> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1603910>
[11:41] <frobware> jam, babbageclunk: if we don't have a default gateway for a container should we error or log as a critical warning? My feeling is error. Thoughts?
[11:55] <wallyworld> fwereade_: how do you make a worker run *only* for the controller model?
[11:59] <fwereade_> wallyworld, I would probably make sure it was singular and run in the machine agent if JobManageModel
[11:59] <fwereade_> wallyworld, warning: lots of machine jobs were done wrong, with then activity controlled by logic hidden away in the manifold instead of dragged out into the light
[12:00] <fwereade_> wallyworld, agent/engine.Flag and agent/engine.Housing are your friends when Doing It Right
[12:00] <wallyworld> fwereade_: i'm not across the new manifold config stuff so much - i assume i put something in agent/model/manifolds.go, but i have no idea what
[12:02] <fwereade_> wallyworld, I think we probably want to put it in agent/machine/manifolds.go
[12:02] <fwereade_> wallyworld, for consistency's sake
[12:02] <wallyworld> fwereade_: sorry, was a typo
[12:02] <fwereade_> wallyworld, ah cool ok
[12:02] <fwereade_> wallyworld, what's the job, just for context?
[12:03] <wallyworld> fwereade_: fwiw, it's the log forward worker; i think it is starting for hosted models as well as the controller model; i need to start a system to check, but the worker is there already
[12:03] <wallyworld> line 404
[12:03] <wallyworld> of said manifolds.go
[12:06] <fwereade_> wallyworld, right, the manifold is deeply confused
[12:06] <wallyworld> fwereade_: yeah, this was the initial implementation handed across, i'm trying to fix stuff
[12:06] <fwereade_> wallyworld, worker/logforwarder/manifold.go:53 in particular
[12:07] <fwereade_> wallyworld, it declares a dependency on state, which, WTF
[12:07] <fwereade_> wallyworld, but presence or absence of a dependency does not affect whether or not you're started
[12:07] <wallyworld> yeah, that bit confused me too
[12:07] <fwereade_> wallyworld, so it literally does nothing
[12:08] <fwereade_> wallyworld, and it also does a bunch of default-logic-inserting garbage, and has no tests at all
[12:08] <fwereade_> wallyworld, but, derail
[12:08] <wallyworld> fwereade_: there are a lot of tests missing in a few places - the code just needed to land to meet a contractural deadline
[12:09] <fwereade_> wallyworld, the quick fix is to find another important-looking manifold and see what that does -- it will figure out the agent jobs by some means, probably foul, and exit if it's not wanted
[12:09] <fwereade_> wallyworld, this is dumb but at least it's consistent
[12:10] <wallyworld> fwereade_: yeah, i tried to find something i could cargo cult but was not sure - maybe the migration master?
[12:10] <fwereade_> wallyworld, the correct thing to do would be to extract N JobFlag workers, and wrap the workers that need them in engine.Housings that declare the dependency, which *will* cause the worker not to be started if suitable flags aren't present
[12:11] <fwereade_> wallyworld, worker/resumer/manifold.go
[12:11] <wallyworld> ta, looking at that
[12:11] <fwereade_> wallyworld, clean textbook example of doing it wrong
[12:11] <jam> frobware: so without a default gateway, is there any way for us to tell that there is a problem? I'd tend to go with Warning if there is any way we can progress
[12:12] <wallyworld> fwereade_: so what not to do :-)
[12:12] <fwereade_> wallyworld, the worker shouldn't care where it's running, and it shouldn't hit some crazy different facade to find out the jobs :)
[12:13] <frobware> jam: it's not clear any progress will really be made. you can get into the container but no route out means not much will get done.
[12:13] <jam> frobware: sure, but just dying will mean we get restarted anyway
[12:13] <wallyworld> fwereade_: right. agreed. perhaps there's no current example to look at then?
[12:14] <fwereade_> wallyworld, if you *were* to extract a JobFlag worker/api/apiserver, and extract all -- or just some -- of the job-munging logic from the worker manifolds, that would be great; and if you wanted to do *that*, see the lifeflag and migrationflag workers, and how they're used in the manifolds funcs
[12:14] <frobware> jam: but to me it smacks of the config is just so wrong nothing but manual intervention will help
[12:14] <jam> frobware: so that is entirely likely to be true, but if you stop what you're currently doing, the other infrastructure code will just restart you, I think. Or is this during cloud-init ?
[12:15] <frobware> jam: generating cloud-init for the container
[12:15] <fwereade_> wallyworld, lifeflag and migrationflag are very similar, and I think jobflag would be too
[12:15] <fwereade_> wallyworld, I looked a little while ago and couldn't figure out how to generalise nicely though
[12:15] <jam> frobware: so... will we even be able to download the tools tarball if we can't setup a gateway?
[12:15] <jam> is this likely to actually be a problem in practice, or is it just a drive-by thing?
[12:16] <wallyworld> fwereade_: i'll take a look. realisitcally, i have zero time to spend though, as this log forward work is supposed to be finished in beta 11
[12:16] <frobware> jam: part of this it's just a plain ol bug from our side (https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1602054)
[12:16] <mup> Bug #1602054: juju deployed lxd containers are missing a default gateway when configured with multiple interfaces <2.0> <network> <regression> <juju-core:In Progress by frobware> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1602054>
[12:17] <frobware> jam: we were assuming eth0 would be the route out, but no so if your MAAS network topology ends up with no route out
[12:20] <frobware> jam: in the general case we will have a default route (well, once the bug is fixed). so I would say if we really really end up with a network config that has no gateway then there's clearly no point continuing.
[12:20] <frobware> jam: in this particular bug it's not that we didn't have one, we just made wrong assumptions
[12:21] <jam> frobware: so, I'd counter with the fact that we can set up the agent, and get tools, etc, because they could very easily be in the same subnet.
[12:21] <jam> so you can actually have a perfectly running simple charm even without a default gateway
[12:21] <frobware> jam: you're talking about addressable containers. :-D
[12:21] <frobware> jam, yep, ok.
[12:22] <jam> the Controller could be in the same subnet, which lets us at least get the agent up, which takes the 'machine' out of pending.
[12:22] <jam> we could then have the agent tell us "I can't get the charm, etc" but that's better than the machine being stuck in Pending, IMO
[12:24]  * frobware reverts his lunch. and some of his changes too. :)
[12:29] <frobware> jam: here's another. two interfaces (eth0 dhcp, eth1 static) but static has a gateway, should we assume the gateway comes from the DHCP lease or should we write the gateway option when rendering eth1?
[12:41] <perrito666> rogpeppe1: ping
[12:41] <perrito666> morning all
[12:44] <jam> frobware: doesn't the entire machine get a default gateway?
[12:44] <jam> (each interface is likely to have *a* gateway, but there is one global default gateway for the machine)
[13:17] <babbageclunk> frobware: I have a problem where I can add a machine, and once it starts it is reachable, but then if it gets rebooted the network never comes back up.
[13:18] <babbageclunk> I've used your trick to remove the password so I can get in through the terminal, but I can't see why the network isn't working.
[13:19] <frobware> babbageclunk: can we HO in say 20mins?
[13:19] <frobware> jam: ENI can only have one entry that is 'gateway'
[13:20] <babbageclunk> frobware: that would be great, thanks
[13:20] <frobware> jam: the point about DHCP and static (where static has a GW) is which wins?
[13:21] <frobware> balloons: ^^ I think our 1 hour quick test should first reboot any machine, once boostrapped, and then run the tests
[13:21] <jam> frobware: if we actually have that situation, which one wins in routes?
[13:21] <balloons> frobware, any particular reason?
[13:22] <balloons> I'm curious how that is more or less representative
[13:22] <frobware> balloons: it helps verify that the ENI we rewrite doesn't just work the once. If we reboot the machine it helps verify that things are just working because of current state
[13:22] <frobware> aren't
[13:23] <balloons> frobware, ok. It's not something we do as part of any test, so we're expanding into something new
[13:23] <frobware> balloons: sure - just something that has been on my mind for a while as a few people/bugs have mentioned that on reboot some things are not working
[13:24] <frobware> jam: don't know off-hand. I don't know if you have eth0/dhcp, eth1/static whether ifupdown will apply the latest - I'm guessing so but any DHCP re-lease(sp?) would/could change that
[13:25] <balloons> frobware, mind if I return a question back at you then? I can't seem to get juju to build from scratch using go get / go install. Am I doing something wrong? It fails to fetch the azure provider and if I workaround that, it fails to build
[13:25] <frobware> jam: as we're processing and generating ENI in the container we could say that if we've seen a DHCP iface then we've seen that gateway too
[13:26] <balloons> I run go get -d -v github.com/juju/juju/... then go install -v github.com/juju/juju/...
[13:26] <frobware> balloons: dependencies need updating?
[13:27] <frobware> balloons: if building from scratch I have: "rebuild-juju is aliased to `[ -f $PWD/juju/api.go ] && { nukegopkg; make clean; godeps -u dependencies.tsv; make install;}'
[13:27] <frobware> "
[13:27] <balloons> frobware, mmm.. possibly. I'll try playing with godeps. The thing is, this is a clean pull, so in theory nothing should be getting in the way
[13:28] <balloons> frobware, thank you I will try that.. nuking is what I had in mind ;-)
[13:28] <frobware> balloons: nukegopkg is aliased to `[ -d "$GOPATH/pkg" ] && rm -rf $GOPATH/pkg'
[13:41] <frobware> babbageclunk: ho?
[13:41] <babbageclunk> yes
[13:42] <frobware> babbageclunk: standup HO
[13:49] <balloons> frobware, ty btw. That worked
[13:49] <frobware> balloons: possibly related to stale stuff in go/bin, go/pkg
[14:01] <rogpeppe1> perrito666: pong
[14:06] <mup> Bug #1600722 changed: MachineSuite.TestHostedModelWorkers is unreliable <intermittent-failure> <tech-debt> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1600722>
[14:06] <mup> Bug #1604006 opened: BundlesDirSuite.TestGet fails <ci> <intermittent-failure> <jujuqa> <test-failure> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1604006>
[14:12] <perrito666> rogpeppe1: I just answered via mail :)
[14:23] <frobware> babbageclunk: "console=ttyS0,115200"
[14:25] <alexisb> katco, ping
[14:25] <katco> alexisb: pong
[14:26] <alexisb> heya katco happy monday
[14:26] <katco> alexisb: happy monday
[15:41] <babbageclunk> frobware: I can't get into new vms created using your script - it's like cloud-init isn't running.
[15:50] <frobware> babbageclunk: want to HO again?
[15:50] <babbageclunk>  frobware yes please
[15:58]  * rick_h_ grabs lunchables
[16:29] <redir> I'm so lagged. I wonder why.
[16:29] <katco> perrito666: hey, thought of you when i saw this: http://blog.binchen.org/posts/enhance-emacs-git-gutter-with-ivy-mode.html. how is your emacs adventure going?
[16:29] <perrito666> katco: hijacked by nvim :p
[16:30] <perrito666> It was my more lasting attempt I must admit
[16:30] <katco> perrito666: lol
[16:30] <perrito666> also, got large amounts of pain in my wrist :p
[16:30] <katco> ah, that's no good
[16:31] <perrito666> man I really am sorry we did  not use this 1->2 change to make all "Id" appearances into "ID"
[16:31] <perrito666> It would save me from many complaints by my linter
[16:33] <mgz> perrito666: did you forget about monsters from the id?
[16:34] <perrito666> well that was an obscure reference for sure
[16:35] <perrito666> mm, there is a book that might be a bit more bearable than the movie, I might even read it
[16:35] <mgz> ...return to the forbidden planet isn't that obscure...
[16:35] <mgz> though, I have to admit I don't know how popular it is in south america
[16:36] <natefinch> mgz: most movies from 60 years ago are pretty obscure
[16:36] <perrito666> the robot I never heard of it and I am as nerd as it gets
[16:36] <mgz> sure, the movie is old, but there's the musical as well
[16:37] <mgz> I was the robot in school musical
[16:38] <natefinch> lol I had no idea there was a musical
[16:38] <perrito666> mgz: how old are you? and what is a school musical?
[16:38] <mgz> ..it was less than 60 years ago
[16:39] <perrito666> i thought school musicals only happened in disney movies
[16:39] <natefinch> perrito666: a play with songs and music performed by students at school
[16:39] <natefinch> perrito666: lol, no, they're ubiquitous in the US, at least.
[16:40] <perrito666> and are all the kids participating unrealistically aestethic like in disney movies?
[16:40] <natefinch> no :)
[16:40] <perrito666> meh, and now you are telling me that they are not pro pop singers either
[16:40] <mgz> perrito666: just said *I* was in it...
[16:41] <perrito666> mgz: you are not in the US, plus you might have been a been of uncanny beauty in your youth, then learned how to code
[16:41] <mgz> eheheh
[16:42] <perrito666> I was rather good looking and in good shape in high school
[16:43] <perrito666> then my folks bought a computer
[16:44] <mgz> you're a good shape now, just a cuddlier one
[16:47] <perrito666> sadly the only known thing my country has are footballers so people expectations are rather hight
[16:47] <perrito666> high
[16:49] <rogpeppe1> perrito666: sorry, took a while, but you around for a chat?
[16:49] <mgz> rogpeppe1: nope, only for a cuddle
[16:49] <rogpeppe1> mgz: c'mon then
[16:49] <mgz> ehehe
[16:50] <perrito666> rogpeppe1: a sec
[16:51] <natefinch> rick_h_: so, I'm not sure what to do about the default lxd cloud being called "localhost".  I mean, obviously that's a thing I can change, but I presume it was chosen on purpose, even if I personally think its a horrible name.
[16:52] <rick_h_> natefinch: so we have the list there, can we just call it lxd in the list
[16:52] <rick_h_> natefinch: and treat localhost as the auto region
[16:52] <rick_h_> natefinch: so you get done with a lxd-localhost named entry?
[16:53] <rick_h_> natefinch: especially since I think we should pull the 'type' column
[16:53] <natefinch> rick_h_: well, so, the cloud is called localhost.  juju list-clouds
[16:54] <rick_h_> natefinch: thinking
[16:54] <natefinch> I can do whatever you want, but then lxd will be inconsistent with the rest that use the actual cloud name
[16:54] <rick_h_> natefinch: right, but I'm ok with that in the sense that it's the one that doesn't make any sense if you follow the rules
[16:55] <rick_h_> natefinch: so it's going to be an exceptoin one way or other
[16:56] <rick_h_> natefinch: so I'm open to suggestions on how best to encode that "special" ness
[16:56] <rick_h_> natefinch: but feel strongly that it reads well for the lxd case.
[16:57] <natefinch> rick_h_: so, for clouds that only have one region, let's not put the region in the controller name. It's like, duh, I know that azure-china is gonna be in cn-north-1 given that's the one and only region (which I presume people in china are well aware of).
[16:59] <natefinch> rick_h_: I think the idea is that the type of the cloud should be much less important than the cloud name.  People shouldn't really care that it's lxd locally, just know it's running on localhost.  At least, that's what it seems like we're going for.
[17:00] <rick_h_> natefinch: the issue there is that when it comes to getting help/docs not having lxd in the name hampers you
[17:00] <rick_h_> natefinch: as it won't be obvious for everyone that tries it what it is imo
[17:00] <natefinch> rick_h_: that's a good point.
[17:01] <rick_h_> natefinch: for that I think I do want to try to do lxd-localhost and when we get to actually supporing remote lxd it'll be -not-localhost
[17:02] <rogpeppe1> perrito666: one sec or two? :-)
[17:02] <perrito666> solving a git conflict, brt
[17:06] <perrito666> could anyone http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/5259/  please?
[17:06] <perrito666> rogpeppe1: ok, ready
[17:09] <mup> Bug #1604081 opened: lxd out of order in list-clouds <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1604081>
[17:14] <redir> natefinch: rick_h_ I thought the 1 pager wanted the active user's username to be prepended to the default name
[17:15] <rick_h_> redir: the default name of the cloud?
[17:15] <redir> rick_h_: the controller
[17:16] <natefinch> redir: oh yeah, I missed that it was using the logged in user's username... misread it and thought that might be the credential name or something
[17:16] <redir> rick_h_: I think I see what you mean
[17:17] <natefinch> in that case, mark-localhost is not so bad
[17:17] <rick_h_> redir: let's leave it out atm. Right now list-controllers outputs the controllers name, the user, and the cloud/region.
[17:17] <redir> natefinch: mark-lxd-localhost no?
[17:17] <rick_h_> adding all that into the name of the controller seems overloaded
[17:17] <natefinch> redir: the spec calls for username-region
[17:17]  * redir backs away slowly and goes back to removing users
[17:17] <natefinch> redir: actually, it conflicts with itself
[17:18] <rick_h_> this is why I want to bit off the earlier bits
[17:18] <rick_h_> it's a ton of duplicated info down the layers here
[17:19] <natefinch> Not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing that the problem we're having is deciding which strings to concatenate
[17:19] <rick_h_> natefinch: bad thing, so we're just trying to get through the minimum atm
[17:20] <rick_h_> natefinch: so we can build up the rest of the experience around it and try to push back on the whole concat all the things
[17:23] <rick_h_> stokachu: is the maas local file spec up to date with what's the plan?
[17:24] <stokachu> rick_h_: yea
[17:33] <mup> Bug #1563936 changed: juju bootstrap azure azure WARNING juju.provider.azure instancetype.go:100 found unknown VM size "Standard_D15_v2" <azure-provider> <bootstrap> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1563936>
[17:33] <mup> Bug #1604081 changed: lxd out of order in list-clouds <juju-core:Won't Fix> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1604081>
[18:00] <perrito666> ok ppl, will be back in about 1.5h
[18:05] <alexisb> katco, ping
[18:05] <katco> alexisb: hey
[18:09] <alexisb> heya katco, I am on the HO
[18:09] <katco> alexisb: oh... really? i'm sitting in there lol
[18:09] <katco> alexisb: one sec let me refresh
[18:22] <natefinch> review comment of an internal method I exported: If this is now exported there should be a test for it.
[18:23] <natefinch> ...... this is why I test internal methods
[18:35] <mbruzek> Our partners at IBM pinging me about the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1600311  I see it is listed as incomplete, but I believe Prabakaran has added the information requested.
[18:35] <mup> Bug #1600311: Juju 2.0 Bootstrap Fails on Ubuntu Trusty Power machine. <juju-core:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1600311>
[18:40] <natefinch> mbruzek: oh, we don't support trusty in 2.0 any more
[18:40] <natefinch> mbruzek: .... kidding!
[18:40] <mbruzek> natefinch: good one!
[18:41] <mbruzek> natefinch: And ppc64le no less
[18:41] <natefinch> mbruzek: it sounds like a lxd bug
[18:41] <mgz> mbruzek: looks like a apparmour thing?
[18:42] <mgz> see the second log
[18:42] <mbruzek> It looks like a lxd bug to me. I asked Prabakaran to show me 'sudo lxc image list' and that worked fine.
[18:42] <mgz> mbruzek: probably need one of the lxd guys
[18:46] <mup> Bug #1604106 opened: azure provider 500s are not explained as azure problems <azure-provider> <observability> <reliability> <ui> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1604106>
[19:03] <mbruzek> mgz: but we had the discussion in #juju-dev
[19:03] <mbruzek> mgz: I see my logs in that room.
[19:04] <mgz> yeah, I have it
[19:04] <mgz> you did somehow have a juju2 package still installed
[19:04] <mgz> hm...
[19:04] <mgz> we really need to sort out our ppa packaging too
[19:07] <mbruzek> mgz: I am happy to help where you need it
[19:10] <natefinch> rick_h_, redir: I went with this naming scheme: (os-username || "local")-(len(regions)>1 ? region-name : cloud-name)
[19:11] <rick_h_> natefinch: no local please. We're trying to get rid of the local: and such from the strings.
[19:13] <natefinch> rick_h_: sure.... what would you recommend?  there's a call os/user.Current() ... which can fail.  I need a replacement standin, in that case
[19:14] <rick_h_> natefinch: just leave it blank?
[19:14] <rick_h_> natefinch: skip it vs adding a 'local' to it
[19:14] <natefinch> rick_h_: ok
[19:16] <mup> Bug #1604120 opened: new models do not inherit image-metadata-url from bootstrap config <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1604120>
[19:28] <mgz> stokachu: doing a test build now
[19:29] <mgz> urk... balloons imported the tarball with a - not a ~
[19:29] <balloons> yep.. I've been down that road, but lp wants it's '-'
[19:30] <mgz> well, the tarball needs that, right
[19:30] <mgz> but the import should say the version for debian purposes is with a tilde, see my beta10 import
[19:30] <mgz> anyway, building now
[19:32] <balloons> mgz, ahh, right, I think I could make that happen
[19:32] <mgz> yeah, you just specify the revision with a tilde on the import
[19:32] <mgz> but never mind
[19:33] <mgz> we need to find some time to just redo this at some point
[19:36] <redir> gah. My laptop fonts are gone everywhere but chromium after suspend/resume
[19:41] <mgz> debian-changelog-line-too-long line 9
[19:41] <mgz> thanks lintian...
[19:44] <stokachu> mgz: coo
[20:22] <redir> natefinch: so Y/n in parens (Y/n) but other items in brackets [some-default]?
[20:25] <natefinch> redir: hmm... it's tricky.  Y/n are options, not a default.
[20:35] <redir> natefinch: understood, just verifying before I start changing things
[20:36] <natefinch> redir: I guess parens for now.  at least different behavior is different display, even if both are arbitrary
[20:36] <redir> natefinch: also a ? about destroy/remove
[20:36]  * redir puts it in the doc
[20:36] <redir> for posterity
[20:39] <natefinch> redir: what about destroy vs remove?
[20:39] <natefinch> redir: other than it's confusing? :)
[20:40] <redir> natefinch: asked in doc
[20:41] <redir> brb reboot and lunchables
[20:47] <natefinch> redir: responded in the doc.
[21:22] <mup> Bug #1603584 changed: juju-uitest calls obsolete --show-passwords <ci> <juju-gui> <regression> <juju-core:Fix Released by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1603584>
[21:26] <alexisb> wallyworld, thumper can you guys kick off the release standup
[21:27] <alexisb> I will be htere shortly
[21:27] <wallyworld> ok
[22:19] <perrito666> no one should be allowed to leave a job without clarifying all their todos
[22:22] <mup> Bug #1604176 opened: github.com/juju/juju/worker/reboot timeout on windows <ci> <regression> <timeout> <unit-tests> <windows> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1604176>
[22:27] <perrito666> anyone from team network around?
[22:46] <thumper> perrito666: whazzup?
[22:46] <perrito666> thumper: sorry I answered myself
[22:46] <thumper> ok
[23:19] <mup> Bug #1600311 changed: Juju 2.0 Bootstrap Fails on Ubuntu Trusty Power machine. <juju-core:Invalid> <lxd (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1600311>


[07:01] <nibalizer> i'm trying to push some stuff to launchpad, specifically some updates to the server guide
[07:01] <nibalizer> bzr push appears to use ssh but just hangs forever, whats goin gon?


[05:18] <obrama> 1+1
[14:54] <senator_> Help pls, studio doesnt shut down, it always remembers my last session of Libreoffice which crashes in the process
[14:55] <holstein> senator_: there is a "remember session" checkbox on shutdown
[14:55] <senator_> hey holstein :)... I checked that once before and unchecked it later but it keep on remembering
[14:55] <holstein> senator_: try "sudo halt" and/or "sudo shutdown -h now" and report
[14:56] <holstein> senator_: lets troubleshoot one at a time
[14:56] <holstein> senator_: the shutdown is hanging, correct? try the terminal commands to shutdown and report
[14:58] <senator_> what the command to us
[14:58] <senator_> use
[14:59] <senator_> thing is I have once asked ubuntu to remember session and it did remember my session but later I unticked the option but it still remembers even when I shut down
[14:59] <len-1304> may have to remove ~/.config/xfwm4
[15:00] <holstein> senator_: is the shutdown hanging?
[15:00] <len-1304> I am not sure what the exact file that remembers this is.
[15:00] <senator_> it doesnt hang it suts down but when it comes back on it tries to remember the last session because I asked it to do so a long time ago (but not any more)...
[15:01] <holstein> senator_: troubleshoot one thing at a time please
[15:01] <holstein> senator_: try the shutdown from the terminal
[15:01] <holstein> sudo halt
[15:01] <holstein> sudo shutdown -h now
[15:01] <holstein> do either of those shutdown the machine?
[15:01] <senator_> yeah... I am doing that, was just giving a response to your question
[15:02] <holstein> so, no shutdown issues then? correct senator_ ?
[15:02] <holstein> just the session persistence?
[15:03] <senator_> no shutdown issues
[15:03] <senator_> i was going to do the shutdown command just now tho, shd i continue?
[15:04] <holstein> senator_: not if you have no shutdown issues
[15:04] <senator_> ok
[15:04] <holstein> that was to troubeshoot the "studio downt shut down" issue you mentioned, but may not acutally have
[15:04] <holstein> senator_: i would then try removing what len-1304 suggested
[15:04] <holstein> the session persistence will me in there somewhere
[15:05] <senator_> Libreoffice and firefox were part of the previous session so it manages to open firefox but crashes libreoffice
[15:05] <senator_> ok holstein ... how do i do that, i see the command he gave above
[15:06] <senator_> not comment but the lines he gave as ~/.config/xfwm4
[15:06] <len-1304> sorry you need:
[15:06] <len-1304> rm ~/.config/xfwm4
[15:06] <len-1304> rm -r ~/.config/xfwm4
[15:06] <len-1304> the -r is important :)
[15:07] <holstein> senator_: or, just navigate to that in a filemanger and remove it
[15:08] <senator_> ok... lemme try the above command
[15:10] <senator_> hmmm, len-1304 , it says no such file or directory when I used rm -r ~/.config/xfwm4, so holstein  I shd try looking for it manually?
[15:11] <len-1304> rm -r ~/.config/xfce4
[15:11] <len-1304> sorry
[15:11] <len-1304> I was looking at two things
[15:11] <senator_> done that now len-1304
[15:12] <senator_> pasted in terminal and hit entre
[15:12] <len-1304> logout and in
[15:12] <senator_> ojk doing that now len-1304 , holstein would be a minute
[15:15] <holstein> senator_: ?
[15:15] <holstein> would be a minute?
[15:24] <senator_> holstein, len-1304 back now... shut down and started again... situation remains same
[15:26] <holstein> senator_: it *will* be a file in there
[15:26] <senator_> I just used the command he gave earlier
[15:27] <holstein> senator_: yes
[15:27] <holstein> senator_: that command removed a config file
[15:27] <holstein> senator_: it will be a config file there that will reset that session
[15:28] <holstein> which one? im not sure yet
[15:28] <holstein> i am helping a few other folks, and about to run out the door
[15:28] <holstein> but im searching and typing
[15:28] <holstein> what can you do?
[15:28] <holstein> ask int #ubuntu or #xubuntu
[15:28] <holstein> http://askubuntu.com/questions/111010/how-do-i-remove-some-sessions-from-the-session-list-in-xubuntu suggests
[15:28] <senator_> this command rm -r ~/.config/xfce4
[15:29] <holstein> senator_: right
[15:29] <holstein> rm = remove
[15:29] <holstein> you deleted a config file
[15:29] <holstein> thats what that command does
[15:29] <holstein> but, you'll need to keep trying
[15:29] <holstein> as len-1304 said, that might not be the one
[15:29] <senator_> using same command or which
[15:29] <holstein> but, it *will* be in there
[15:29] <senator_> ok
[15:29] <holstein> senator_: use what you like
[15:29] <senator_> let me navigate to the folder
[15:29] <holstein> you can literally open a filemanage
[15:30] <holstein> filemanager
[15:30] <senator_> whats the command for that
[15:30] <senator_> i got it
[15:31] <senator_> thanks for the time, since you have to run... cheers
[15:32] <holstein> did you try the file from the link?
[15:32] <holstein> did you try the xubuntu or ubuntustudio session from the session list at login?
[15:38] <senator_> ubuntustudio
[15:38] <holstein> senator_: sure.. try selecting others
[15:38] <holstein> try the above suggestion
[15:38] <holstein> try asking in #xubuntu
[15:39] <senator_> ok I will... reading up the link yu gave
[15:56] <senator_> holstein, I might havemanaged to solve it
[15:56] <senator_> whats the real difference between xfce session and Ubuntu studio session
[15:59] <senator_> I went into the xfce session and saw that remember session was ticked... maybe I ticked it a while ago, but I since never got back into xfce session, only using ubuntu studio session, the preference of xfce kinda super imposes on the ubuntu studio session and tried to remember the last session but there was no such last session in studio
[16:00] <senator_> my best guess... so the question again, whats the diff betwn xfce and ubuntu studion sessions
[16:17] <zequence> senator_: There shouldn't be anyu
[16:18] <senator_> hey zequence ... I guess you are right but why duplicate the sessions and call it different names... if they have no differences
[16:18] <zequence> senator_: Ok, seems like the Ubuntu Studio session might get named differently, and is not even read, perhaps
[16:18] <zequence> We should look at that
[16:19] <senator_> yeah we shd or maybe someone has some other explanations... holstein
[16:20] <zequence> senator_: We, as in the Ubuntu Studio development team
[16:21] <zequence> senator_: Would you mind reporting a bug about this?
[16:22] <senator_> Oh ok
[16:22] <senator_> yeah I will report it... how do I do that
[16:22] <zequence> senator_: Let me just have a look at how the session thing works. I'm usually not involved in the desktop specific stuff
[16:23] <senator_> I see
[16:24] <senator_> the challenge I had was that each time I try restarting my studio, it tries to remember the last session where I opened Libreoffice and Firefox, firefox opens but libreoffice crashes and this has been on for a while... I have checked out the shut down option and the remember session box is not ticked.
[16:29] <senator_> I later shut down, re started and loged into xfce instead of studio, then I tried to shut down then saw that the box for remember session was ticked, so I unticked it (inside xfce) then l restarted again and all was fine for xfce, then restarted into Ubuntu studio and it was now fine... so in my opinion even tho I did not ask Ubuntu Studio to remember session, because I said so in xfce,  the Ubuntu studio is also trying to remember s
[16:29] <senator_> ession, but their is none to remember so the libreoffice crashes on start up... zequence
[16:30] <len-1304> senator_, zequence just did some playing around with session save.
[16:30] <len-1304> I found that, first I logged out after saving a session. as expected those apps showed up when I logged in
[16:31] <len-1304> then I logged out with the save session box unchecked.
[16:31] <len-1304> as not expected, the same apps as before showed up.
[16:31] <len-1304> I exited those apps and logged out with the save session turned on.
[16:32] <len-1304> when I logged back in my screen was clean.
[16:33] <len-1304> So the save session box saves a session. unchecking the box does not unsave that session
[16:33] <len-1304> to unsave the session one has to save what they want it to be next time.
[16:33] <zequence> It's not a Ubuntu Studio bug as it seems. I also played around with this
[16:33] <len-1304> Am I making any sense?
[16:36] <len-1304> There is also a button in the settings manager->session and startup->sessiontab, called "Clear saved sessions"
[16:37] <zequence> I was playing around with raring, the live DVD, and for me, after saving one session, doing a logout would skip the confirm window, so I had no chance to uncheck anything
[16:38] <zequence> ~/.cache/sessions is empty initially
[16:38] <zequence> After deleting its contents, the next login caused a crash for xfce-session
[16:38] <zequence> And the result was I got a default XFCE wallpaper instead of the Ubuntu Studio one
[16:41] <len-1304> That sort of makes sense
[16:41] <len-1304> If you removed the directory it would be differetn again
[16:41] <zequence> It was empty initially, as I said
[16:42] <zequence> I will look at what other changes happen. Will cp the entire home dir
[16:42] <zequence> and do a diff
[16:42] <len-1304> Ya.
[16:43] <len-1304> The idea of the programer seems to be that saving the session makes that the "Default" startup. to change that you have to save something else.
[16:43] <len-1304> BRB
[16:48] <len-1304> Ok, zequence, the Clear saved sessions button in the settings manager does work
[16:55] <len-1304> The save Session button in Session and Startup also works correctly and as expected. (saves session except for the settings manager)
[16:56] <zequence> I'm just wondering where the option for saving the session is stored
[16:56] <len-1304> I think this is not a bug so much as just not understanding what the save session checkbox does
[16:57] <zequence> Think I found it
[16:59] <len-1304> ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-session.xml
[16:59] <zequence> Yeah, that's the one
[16:59] <len-1304> "PromptOnLogout"
[17:00] <zequence> There is one bug that happens for me concerning sessions
[17:00] <zequence> I check the save session button. Log out. Login. Logout - the confirm window for accepting logout does not appear. It just logs out
[17:00] <zequence> No way to uncheck the button
[17:00] <len-1304> We could set that false by default
[17:01] <zequence> It is false by default
[17:02] <zequence> hmm, now it logged out automatically. Think I've heard of this before
[17:02] <len-1304> By default it is not set either way.
[17:02] <len-1304> (/etc/xdg/...)
[17:03] <len-1304> Save on exit is false
[17:03] <len-1304> but prompt on exit does not show.
[17:04] <len-1304> creating new user...
[17:04] <zequence> Ah, there was that too. I missed you saying that
[17:05] <len-1304> brb
[17:08] <zequence> Something buggy about how that works
[17:10] <len> Ok, with a new user there is no session file saved. (~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-session.xml) untill after the first logout.
[17:10] <len> It does not mirror the default in etc.
[17:11] <len> The new user got <property name="SaveOnExit" type="empty"/>
[17:11] <zequence> len: If you want to go ahead and find out what is wrong here, please do. I'll just return to what I was doing before
[17:12] <zequence> I find the session handling buggy. If I were a XFCE but, I would disable saving completely. It doesn't work well IMO
[17:12] <zequence> XFCE dev*, not but
[17:12] <len> etc is <property name="SaveOnExit" type="bool" value="false"/>
[17:13] <len> I think that is a bug.
[17:13] <zequence> Let me know if you find out why the session crashes, if you find out
[17:14] <len> But I should ask the xfce guys
[17:14] <len> crashes?
[17:14] <zequence> I just mentioned that a few times
[17:14] <len> I haven't had crashes
[17:14] <zequence> Anyway, I'll be doing something else now
[17:14] <len> I've been loggin in and out, so I may have missed it.
[17:14] <len> k
[18:07] <senator_> len-1304, , zequence  thanks for your time here, you guys spoke in some rather high level language but I was able to catch up...
[18:14] <zequence> senator_: It's just config files. And I think we confirmed that your problem was not a bug at all, even though, one would probably want the saved session to be deleted when unchecking save session
[18:15] <zequence> I did find some other buggy behaviour
[19:45] <senator_> which ones zequence ?
[19:47] <senator_> the log out one right? not showing you the window for options
[23:37] <studio-user-Guer> nothing happening here
[23:44] <goodtime> so who is good with this os
[23:45] <goodtime> im used to other linux os's
[23:46] <goodtime> kubuntu - ubuntu- fedora- etc etc .....
[23:46] <goodtime> i like this one so far
[23:46] <goodtime> hard to tweek it
[23:47] <goodtime> ok is anybody going to interject a comment?


[21:29] <mbruzek> Hello #launchpad, who can I notify to delete a project that I created in error?
[21:36] <mbruzek> Can someone help me
[22:05] <wgrant> mbruzek: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[22:05] <mbruzek> thank you wgrant


[01:44] <Enverex> Damnit, there's another one now aswell
[02:11] <Enverex> Why are the rt2500 and rt2500pci drivers missing from the ,22 kernel?
[02:16] <Enverex> (and .21 kernel for that matter)
[02:28] <gnomefreak> Enverex: neither have been released as upgrade. you will be missing modules for a while in the kernels as with ever other release has seen
[02:29] <Enverex> gnomefreak, Ah, I thought they packaged all modules with each kernel, I didn't realise they missed any
[02:29] <Enverex> The issue is that the rt2500-source in the repos doesn't compile against the kernel though :/
[02:29] <gnomefreak> not all modules get packaged right away or you would get alot more breakage
[02:31] <Enverex> More breakage than it not working at all? lo
[02:31] <Enverex> *lol
[02:32] <gnomefreak> Enverex: breakage to other things
[02:33] <gnomefreak> hence more people with broken kernel
[02:34] <gnomefreak> Enverex: if you want more of an ETA on it check with #ubuntu-kernel but dont be suprised if you dont get an answer its weekend and most people are not here
[02:35] <Enverex> Ah, it's just annoying how the kernel lacks it and it the package in the repo wont compile against the kernel
[02:35] <gnomefreak> Enverex: that is why its not in it :)
[02:36] <Enverex> ...
[02:45] <crimsun> Enverex: fix it, submit the diff.
[02:49] <Enverex> crimsun, ... erm, yeah... because I know everything about the 2500 RT driver...
[02:49] <Hobbsee> learn it.
[02:50] <Enverex> ... I'm having  Dejavu of being back on Gentoo...
[02:51] <crimsun> Enverex: in short, because the kernel is strapped for resources, and because no one from the community has stepped up to give it some love, it's not there.
[02:51] <crimsun> kernel team, even.
[02:52] <Hobbsee> Enverex: gentoo is the same - it doestn ahve infinite resources for development.  it requires people to step up if they want to see something happening, in almost all cases.
[02:53] <Enverex> And here I was thinking Ubuntu was the "just works" distro
[02:53] <Hobbsee> it usually does.
[02:53] <Hobbsee> but that doesnt mean it doesnt have areas it cant improve on
[02:54] <Hobbsee> nor does it mena that it doesnt have the manpower problems of any linux distro
[02:54] <Enverex> It's just odd that the driver used to be in the kernel and it was actually "the" recommended chipset to have on the Wiki guides
[02:55] <Hobbsee> then it shouldnt be that hard to get it in again
[02:57] <Hobbsee> oh good, kdepim built and was published.
[02:58] <Enverex> Hobbsee, That would be true if I could get it to compile against the kernel...
[02:59] <Hobbsee> heh, indeed
[03:00] <Hobbsee> crimsun: who knows anything about poppler, apart from pitti?
[03:07] <crimsun> Hobbsee: maybe seb or the Debian maintainer.
[03:07] <Hobbsee> right
[03:07] <Hobbsee> crimsun: krita looks for a file that now doesnt exist.
[03:11] <LjL> ubotwo part
[05:20] <mzuverink> Ive got a broblem with my moms wireless on her laptop.  I finally converted her and have install Feisty on a Gateway MT6451, the wireless card reports in Hardware Information as Unknown Device(0x5a37) Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN Mini-PCI Card.  I have tried a bunch of various Howto's and nothing seems to work.  Does anyone have this card and have a surefire way to make it run?
[07:08] <DanaG> Hmm, now suspend works, but resume doesn't.
[10:34] <mzuverink> whenever I log out of my user while the ATI proprietary drivers are install I cannot get a login screen, all goes black and stays that way, any fix come to mind anyone?
[10:34] <Hobbsee> remove the ATI drivers?
[10:35] <gnomefreak> mzuverink: feisty?
[10:35] <Hobbsee> ATI probably hasnt updated tehir drivers for the new xorg in gutsy
[10:35] <mzuverink> yeah feisty
[10:35] <gnomefreak> mzuverink: ask in #ubuntu
[10:35] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: they havent
[10:35] <Hobbsee> yay, ATI
[10:36] <mzuverink> they havent answered much there all night of any relevence
[10:36] <gnomefreak> normally they release around beta unless they have changed the way they release
[10:36] <gnomefreak> mzuverink: read the topic of this channel it is only for gutsy
[10:36] <mzuverink> sorry, my bad
[10:36] <gnomefreak> mzuverink: good chance they dont know. file a bug or if you have beryl/compiz disable it
[10:37] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: ahh
[11:40] <cyphase> is there a cd image of gutsy, or do you have to dist-upgrade from feisty?
[11:40] <Hobbsee> dist-upgrade
[11:40] <cyphase> thought so
[11:40] <cyphase> thanks
[11:41] <Hobbsee> see the topic, with the schedule, for when there will be
[11:41] <cyphase> yea, i have.. i just thought there might be a daly build
[11:41] <cyphase> daily*
[11:42] <gnomefreak> cyphase: its not ready for any public testing yet. its is for devels atm
[11:42] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: it's really not that bad atm - as long as you dont need things like oo.o
[11:42] <cyphase> gnomefreak: i know.. i'm just going to install it in a VM
[11:42] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: right now no its really not but it will be
[11:43] <gnomefreak> cyphase: you are gonna need to upgrade.
[11:43] <cyphase> gnomefreak: yea, i know
[11:43] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: true dat.
[11:44] <gnomefreak> if they dont fix hunspell and poppler than it will be a bit late
[11:44] <gnomefreak> cyphase: it will remove gimp and a few other thing
[11:44] <gnomefreak> s
[11:44] <Hobbsee> poppler has been fixed
[11:44] <Hobbsee> it's the others which are slow
[11:44] <gnomefreak> ah
[11:44] <Hobbsee> and it appears that the popler interface has changed a fair bit - krita didnt build, for eg
[11:44] <gnomefreak> gimp was uninstallible yesterday
[11:44] <cyphase> gnomefreak: again, i'm going to install it in a VM. I don't want to dedicate a machine to it right now
[11:45] <gnomefreak> oh it was a fairly big change
[11:45] <gnomefreak> cyphase: im just letting you know what is going to happen so you dont come back saying crap gimp is gone i needed that
[01:15] <iKs> Hi all :)
[01:16] <iKs> I just installed Gutsy (I upgraded from Fesity) and I'm having a tiny problem with fonts
[01:16] <iKs> When I rebooted, all my fonts were like 2 pts smaller
[01:16] <iKs> that was not a real problem, I went to System >> Admin >> Fonts and chossed 12 instead of 10
[01:16] <iKs> but some apps do not take thi sinto account :s
[01:17] <iKs> Firefox (task bar and body), Thunderbird (task bar), XChat(body)
[01:17] <iKs> Does anyone have the same problem ?
[01:21] <iKs> Anyone ? :s
[01:28] <zaggynl> iKs, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=437727
[01:28] <zaggynl> yay forums and google
[01:29] <Hobbsee> !weekend is <reply> It's a weekend.  Often on weekends, the paid developers, and a lot of the community, may not be around to answer your question.  Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would, or try again during the working week.
[01:29] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Hobbsee
[01:29] <zaggynl> awesome
[01:29] <iKs> zaggynl: Thx a lot ! I ran a search on font and didn't find anything
[01:29] <zaggynl> iKs, I hope it works out for ya :)
[01:30] <iKs> zaggynl: but searching for thuderbird and Firefox is not a bad idea :p
[01:30] <iKs> zaggynl: I'll read the topic ;) Thx again
[01:30] <zaggynl> iKs, actually I used this: 'http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=gutsy+small+fonts&btnG=Google+zoeken&meta='
[01:30] <zaggynl> !zaggynl is <reply> some random guy on #ubuntu
[01:30] <zaggynl> :(
[01:30] <Hobbsee> !night is <reply>  It's the middle of the night in the US and the UK.  This means that a lot of people are likely asleep, and so therefore there are less potential people who can answer your question.  Please be patient, and consider asking at a time when more people will be awake.  This is particularly true in the quieter channels.
[01:30] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Hobbsee
[01:31] <Hobbsee> !night
[01:31] <ubotu> It's the middle of the night in the US and the UK.  This means that a lot of people are likely asleep, and so therefore there are less potential people who can answer your question.  Please be patient, and consider asking at a time when more people will be awake.  This is particularly true in the quieter channels.
[01:31] <Hobbsee> good bot.
[01:35] <iKs> zaggynl: Worked for XChat and for Fiefox and Thunderbird before their reboot :/
[01:36] <iKs> (XCHat still works fine but Firefox and Thunderbird came back to default)
[01:36] <iKs> Anyway it's not a big deal and knowing I'm not the only one experiencing this issue is enough for me ;)
[01:36] <iKs> I'll have a look at LP
[01:36] <zaggynl> oki
[01:53] <Enverex> Hobbsee, Middle of the night? It's 1 in the afternoon
[01:54] <zaggynl> Enverex, he was adding stuff and testing ;-)
[01:55] <Enverex> Ah, lol
[01:55] <Enverex> and the US is like 5 to 8 hours behind the UK, or even 6 to 9 during BST so if it's the middle of the night in the UK then it wont be in the US
[01:58] <Hobbsee> zaggynl: she.  but true
[01:58] <zaggynl> oh, pardon me :3, I missed your female characteristics
[01:59] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:00] <Enverex> Heh, "Hobbs" doesn't sound female :P Always makes me think of the guy from the start of Beneath a Steel Sky, Hobbins :P
[02:00] <Hobbsee> Enverex: sure, but sarah does :)
[02:01] <zaggynl> ah, there we go
[02:01] <jussi01> hehe
[02:01] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:02] <Enverex> "Like my little robot?" "It's crap son"
[02:40] <kurisu> hi, does anyone know how to fix this please: PCI: Bus #06 (-#09) is hidden behind transparent bridge #01 (-#01)
[02:45] <gnomefreak> kurisu: feisty?
[02:46] <kurisu> yes
[02:46] <gnomefreak> kurisu: join #ubuntu and ask please
[02:47] <kurisu> ahh oh yeah im in the wrong channel... sorry
[04:17] <ScarFreewill> any1 treid to run kde4?
[05:23] <jadacyrus> Is there a way to install linux-restricted-modules w/out nvidia-kernel-common
[07:00] <DanaG> I fixed xubuntu-desktop by installing the Feisty versions of the mixer and mixer-alsa packages.
[07:31] <DanaG> This channel often seems rather quiet.
[07:37] <jussi01> DanaG: it is as gutsy is not yet even alpha...
[07:37] <DanaG> Good point there.
[08:08] <DanaG> WTFhellz?
[10:12] <binskipy2u> hey guys, how can i know how far a default install of ubuntu 7.04 will update 2?
[10:12] <binskipy2u> package by package?
[11:18] <_StefanS_> hi there
[11:19] <_StefanS_> I was going to report an issue with the latest gutsy kernel and mptscsi
[11:20] <_StefanS_> just wanted to know if someone already noticed that


[14:59] <lotuspsychje> im having a pretty long hexchat lag on its launch on 20.04 anyone also have that?
[14:59] <lotuspsychje> 8-10 sec till launch


[02:54] <pleia2> MrChrisDruif: thanks :)
[16:24] <pleia2> still have a few summaries that need writing if anyone is about: http://bit.ly/vDkJyf
[16:24] <pleia2> akgraner: I'll be around for the next couple hours at least
[18:31] <pleia2> all summaries done :D
[21:14] <pleia2> just finishing up stats now
[21:27] <pleia2> and sent off to editors!
[23:39] <pleia2> akgraner: I need to head out soonish, want to reschedule our chat for today sometime this week? maybe an evening?
[23:39] <pleia2> or next weekend :)


[02:31] <nhaines> pleia2: sure!  You know the (Lake Forest) address.  :)
[02:33] <nhaines> If this book I'm in negotiations on goes through I'll be donating a copy or two to the LoCo as well.
[02:33] <nhaines> But shhh.  Negotiations.  :P


[14:26] <nik90> can someone mark this bug priority to high?
[14:26] <nik90> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/982343
[14:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 982343 in unity "App's icon remains in launcher also if I've cancelled its installation" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[14:26] <nik90> It could be a potential blocker for precise
[14:27] <nik90> seb128?
[19:14] <hjd> Hi, could someone please mark bug 577728 Triaged/ High ("Renders essential features or functionality of the application or dependencies broken or ineffective")? And it should probably be subscribed to someone who would deal with the rebuild, but I'm not sure who...
[19:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 577728 in tuxcmd "tuxcmd: Access violation on i386" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/577728
[23:21] <cprofitt> anyone have a link to a resource that will help me properly report a regression involving 12.04 and Nvidia drivers?
[23:26] <cprofitt> hey ogra_
[23:44] <cprofitt> hello ashams and mrand
[23:44] <cprofitt> either of you have experience with video issues?
[23:45] <ashams> cprofitt, unfortunately not, sorry :( but you may want to ask the question so any one else can catch it
[23:46] <cprofitt> alright
[23:48] <cprofitt> I just updated earlier today on my 12.04 test box... the update included a kernel update, xorg update and nvidia driver update... after doing so Unity 3D was able to login, but performance was like a slide show and not really useable. I manually installed the Nvidia 295.20 drivers after trying to determine what was at issue and not finding anything. After this Unity 3D was useable, but games that depend on 3D were not. In both scenarios Unit
[23:58] <kklimonda> cprofitt: ask folks in #ubuntu-x about it
[23:59] <kklimonda> cprofitt: it sounds like bug 981019 but it hasn't yet been triaged
[23:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 981019 in nvidia-common "3D desktops crash or are unusably slow" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/981019


[01:20] <DanaG> Hmm, going back to 72.14 BIOS didn't change anything.
[06:42] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- You do not have channel operator access to [#ubuntu-boot]
[06:42] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu-server]  Ubuntu Server Discussions (development and support)
[06:42] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu-ops]  Welcome to #ubuntu-ops - Home of the operators for official K/X/Ed/Ubuntu channels. Questions, requests and complaints about Ubuntu related channels and their people can be filed here"
[06:42] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu+1]  Please read the topic. Especially if things are broken!
[06:56] <DanaG> http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33892554
[06:56] <DanaG> hah, huge and hot and will have bad driver.
[06:56] <DanaG> s.
[08:28] <DanaG> Oh....kay, so my BIOS is buggy.
[08:28] <DanaG> Even WinXP does not resume correctly!
[08:29] <DanaG> It freezes in exactly the same way.
[09:24] <yveslu> hi, will gutsy have libc6-2.6 ?
[09:24] <RAOF> It already does, doesn't it?
[09:25] <RAOF> !info libc6 gutsy
[09:25] <ubotu> libc6: GNU C Library: Shared libraries. In component main, is required. Version 2.5-8ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 4072 kB, installed size 10068 kB
[09:25] <RAOF> Clearly I am wrong.
[09:25] <yveslu> :)
[09:26] <yveslu> I installed it from experimental onto my debian unstable system, and it runs fine so far
[09:27] <RAOF> Fixes any interesting bugs?
[09:35] <yveslu> I don't know, but U guess...  AFAIR it has some performance improvements
[09:40] <yveslu> s/U/I
[09:41] <RAOF> Well, it'll either hit Unstable & get sync/merged into gutsy before the freeze, or it won't :).
[09:46] <yveslu> let's hope it will ... :-)
[09:46] <yveslu> this is one reason:
[09:46] <yveslu> http://dot.kde.org/1172617283/1172768274/1172773687/1172776025/
[11:18] <Enverex> Hrm. Well I got .22-6 loaded and it does contain rt2x00pci... but loading the module does nothing. Doesn't seem to see the device.
[01:59] <Enverex> Hrm, the rt2x00pci driver seems to have issues
[01:59] <Enverex> The biggest being that it doesn't work
[01:59] <Enverex> But gives no errors either
[02:16] <Enverex> No-one alive then?
[02:19] <zaggynl> nah
[02:48] <Enverex> This thing about rt2x00pci is driving me mad
[04:20] <akrus> hello everyone
[04:20] <akrus> latest xine engine does not play oggs :(
[04:20] <akrus> does someone know how to fix this problem? :x
[04:21] <akrus> Returns: No decoder found for this format.
[04:21] <akrus> x_X
[04:21] <akrus> mplayer working well
[07:51] <DanaG> New discovery: it IS my BIOS that is broken.
[07:52] <DanaG> Not even Vista will resume from suspend!
[08:00] <DanaG> Hah!
[09:14] <DanaG> DOn't you just looove broken BIOSes?
[09:19] <zaggynl> never had that
[09:19] <zaggynl> how the heck do you break those?
[09:28] <kunwon1> a hammer usually works


[15:02] <Guest21943> hey I was wondering if I could obtain the latest alpha/beta of precise for installation so that I could help test, as I am going to re-install anway.  is that possible?
[15:12] <jussi> bah. 8 mins. missed them
[17:19] <Len2> I was just looking at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialOneiric
[17:20] <Len2> At the bottom it mentions this thing called "AWN"
[17:20] <Len2> Huh? Can people not just write it out instead of some letters? what does that mean? it just looks like a panel to me.
[17:23] <len> Anyway, are we still pursuing an "AWN only" concept? or are we just looking at getting xfce working for us right now and see where things are going.
[17:25] <len> If AWN is a program, and we are still thinking going that way some time later... is there a ref I can go to to find out more?
[17:25] <len> Sorry for the switch of logins... that was where I happened to have the browser up.
[17:25] <holstein> hehe...http://awn-project.org/ seems dead
[17:26] <len> Right... Thanks for the answer.
[17:26] <holstein> when i used AWN, it required 3d
[17:26] <holstein> +, i just personally hate the dock thing
[17:27] <holstein> i feel like it would compromise stability for a slick look that most folks probably wont appreciate in the end
[17:30] <holstein> seems like there was a lot of talk about the look and feel of ubuntustudio not too long ago
[17:30] <holstein> and i personally think that was the strongest thing it had going fo it
[17:30] <holstein> for*
[17:30] <holstein> it felt so modern... and zen almost
[17:31] <holstein> anyways... ill get behind whatever we can make happen!
[17:31] <holstein> im just saying.. i dont see anyone wishing they had a dock
[17:32] <holstein> but, it looks slick, and any little thing we could do drastic like that would really set us apart from main ubuntu and xubuntu
[17:32] <holstein> not that we need to detract users from either place, but if we are providing a whole different experience, i can see that as a benefit
[17:32] <holstein> even if that experience is far from what i want, and something that im going to nix right out of the box
[17:43] <len> holstein, I was thinking I could make a dock/menu/panel thingy that has buttons like that...
[17:44] <len> each button would be a selection of apps for a type of work.. sort of megga workflows
[17:44] <holstein> len: i bet you can :)
[17:44] <len> in other words each button might represent a few related workflows.
[17:45] <len> when the button is pressed the whole thing is replaced by a set of buttons that go to apps for the super workflow.
[17:45] <holstein> sounds similar to what ScottL was talking about
[17:45] <len> holstein does that make sense?
[17:45] <holstein> i think there are some mock-ups?
[17:46] <holstein> maybe just text on it
[17:46] <len> I would do it in tk/tcl... because I think it will be around forever. and even if the version changes the scripting will still work for old apps.
[17:46] <len> Text would be real easy. Icons would take more time as they are new to me.
[17:48] <len> I think I could make it configurable without having to recode...
[17:48] <len> holstein I am thinking however that this would be 12.11 ish stuff.
[17:48] <holstein> len: cool!
[17:48] <holstein> i like the idea for sur
[17:48] <holstein> e
[17:49] <len> I am also (slowly) working on "TikTOC" to replace gcdmaster. I am not at all happy with what ardour puts out.
[17:50] <len> holstein, do you know how to put toc files out in ardour3? I can find it in ardour 2 but not 3
[18:04] <holstein> len: nah... i havent used it enough
[18:04] <holstein> lsd over in #opensourcemusicians would know
[18:04] <holstein> or las in #ardour
[18:18] <ScottL> len, len-nb , when we work on the menu i would encourage you to use a bzr branch owned by you under your launchpad account, this will make merging the code together much easier
[18:19] <len-nb> ScottL i can't do much for the next few hours but when I get back I will see how to do that
[18:20] <ScottL> no rush, i still need to get micahg some information about the recent set of change, but i would like to knock the menu change before the end of the coming week
[18:20] <ScottL> even if it isn't "perfect", we still have made progress and can tweak it later
[18:20] <ScottL> i heard a really good saying that i'm trying to embrace; "don't let perfect stand in the way of better"
[18:21] <ScottL> reading the backscroll reminds me of something...
[18:21] <ScottL> i had thought about a package for ubuntu studio that would be "helpful" for the user
[18:21] <ScottL> it might be an "extras" package or similar
[18:21] <ScottL> it might set up some directory structures for users to help organize audio or video projects
[18:21] <ScottL> it might even have the awn dock in it with work flows
[18:22] <ScottL> just something that i thought about one day
[18:22] <ScottL> but i don't know that i'll want to put too much effort into docks or panels for work flows right now
[18:22] <ScottL> two reasons for this...
[18:22] <ScottL> first we need to finish the work flows and document them in the wiki better (along general work flow)
[18:23] <ScottL> second, i would like in the next two or three cycles *really* see about making work flows more transparent to users
[18:23] <ScottL> this might be through gladish for audio
[18:23] <ScottL> or even scripts ala ralph on the mailing list for audio
[18:24] <ScottL> but the point would be to make it easier to start or restart an audio (this automation might include video, graphical, or photography work flows too) project
[18:24] <ScottL> but we can flesh this out later, right now we need to get through this cycle
[18:25] <ScottL> and probably a few things will not get done this cycle and will slide into next cycle
[18:25] <ScottL> and i hope next cycle we can refine the UI , theme, etc but mainly focus on work flows and documentation
[21:37] <jussi> ScottL: ping?
[22:13] <ScottL> jussi, pong
[22:15] <knome> ScottL, dong
[22:30] <ScottL> knome, ding
[22:34] <knome> ScottL, any chancee of getting the cards to printer yet?
[22:35] <astraljava> ScottL: jussi is in Barcelona, most likely partying hard right now (Saturday evening, after all). :D
[22:36] <knome> ohai astraljava
[22:36] <astraljava> o/
[22:39] <knome> meh.
[22:39] <knome> i'm getting sub-60% wlan signal here at the floor on front of the living room window
[22:39] <knome> don't ask why i
[22:39] <knome> 'm here.
[22:39] <knome> and, damn eeepc keyboard
[22:40]  * knome just set up pidgin on eeepc :)
[22:42] <astraljava> A real one?
[22:43] <knome> hah. not really. but i do have a bag which has the text PIGEON in it
[23:07] <len-nb> knome, I feel lucky if I get 50%... the ap is downstairs.
[23:08] <knome> len-nb, i'm about 3 meters away from the ap, no walls between
[23:09] <knome> well, maybe 4m
[23:09] <len-nb> Ouch! Mine is an old wap11
[23:09] <len-nb> in b mode
[23:10] <knome> linksys wrt54gs here
[23:10] <knome> though it must be the eeepc that sucks
[23:10] <len-nb> Netbook?
[23:11] <len-nb> No drive deal
[23:11] <len-nb> I'm trying to remember what I have heard about them... not sure
[23:12] <knome> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee_PC#Eee_700_series
[23:12] <len-nb> Thanks.
[23:12] <knome> i have the 4G, one of the first
[23:12] <knome> 4G meaning it has 4G drive space, not 4G mem
[23:12] <knome> ...
[23:14] <knome> but i'm not really complaining.
[23:15] <knome> this is fine
[23:15] <knome> i couldn
[23:15] <knome> 't even afford another one.
[23:15] <knome> not in the money sense, but in the sense i'd just play with it all day long
[23:15] <knome> and i don't really need another yet, so...
[23:17] <len-nb> Ja, that was the one I thought it was.
[23:17] <knome> mm-hmm
[23:18]  * knome should be sleeping now too. but i'm stuck playing gnomine on this damn eeepc :)
[23:18] <len-nb> I have installed Ustudio on a 16G usb stick ok, but it took up about 4G, so not much room for playing with.
[23:19] <knome> 4G is tight. but it's manageable. i run xubuntu, but i removed a lot of software at install time
[23:19] <knome> i have about 800M free
[23:19] <len-nb> I kind of wonder what the advantage is, the cheaper aspire I have has a drive in the same space.
[23:20] <len-nb> Does it have better battery time
[23:20] <knome> well, it's not too good
[23:20] <knome> but remind you, this *is* one of the first really small ones
[23:21] <len-nb> I don't know that I could use a keyboard much smaller... and not having a KB is what turned me away from the pads
[23:22] <knome> well, tbh this keyboard is a bit small for me
[23:22] <knome> but you get used to it
[23:22] <knome> and i'm not writing novels with this
[23:22] <knome> and i have a pretty decent writing speed too, i think
[23:22] <len-nb> So I have found... this one has become my main use computer
[23:22] <knome> :)
[23:23] <knome> i just have to prefer my desktop :)
[23:23] <len-nb> My desktop is downstairs... we don't heat downstairs.
[23:23] <len-nb> But my desktop has a nice soundcard.
[23:24] <ScottL> knome, sorry haven't really tried any printers yet
[23:24] <knome> mine too, but old
[23:24] <knome> ScottL, np :)
[23:25] <ScottL> just been busy, work especially, did 55 hours last week, probably more this week :(
[23:25] <len-nb> ScottL: Do you want me to setup the menu as I have it, or change over to one config file first?
[23:26] <knome> len-nb, but my desktop has two 24" monitors which handle the heating...
[23:26] <len-nb> What I have works fine.
[23:26] <knome> ScottL, too bad :(
[23:26] <ScottL> len-nb, let's get one config file working first, if you don't mind....we'll start KISS
[23:27] <len-nb> Knome, I just have an lcd thing, doesn't even put out as much heat as the cpu.
[23:27] <knome> len-nb, :)
[23:27] <ScottL> i trust everyone knows that acronym
[23:27] <knome> ScottL, did you mean: "that band"
[23:27] <knome> ;]=
[23:28] <len-nb> ScottL, Ok, I will do that. I will have to touch a few different things to do that though.
[23:28] <len-nb> I am assuming I would put it in /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio?
[23:30] <len-nb> Actually /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus
[23:32] <ScottL> len-nb, i'm not exactly sure, but you might look at xubuntu-default-settings as a template, but i do think that is right
[23:33] <len-nb> Yes that is where I got the idea from
[23:34] <len-nb> ScottL there is a small startup script that sets the path to the menustuff we have in /usr/share that will have to be removed.
[23:35] <len-nb>  I'm going to reboot and play...
[23:35] <ScottL> len-nb, is the script in the xubuntu stuff or from our original menu?
[23:36] <knome> ScottL, so you're *really* ripping us off, aren't you??
[23:36] <knome> ;)
[23:36] <len-nb> just for ours, Xubuntu doesn't anything like it.
[23:36] <ScottL> len-nb, i thought so, i'm not sure that is needed anymore, especially if we are using the xubuntu (i.e. the proper) model for menus
[23:36] <len-nb> knome, not really, just using xubuntu as a lesson in using xfce right
[23:37] <ScottL> knome, i am afraid so
[23:37] <ScottL> len-nb, well, i've used their stuff a LOT during all my changes
[23:37] <len-nb> Ja, but like I say, they have the best xfce model in town.
[23:39] <len-nb> ScottL, do you want me to set up panels while we are at it? (mainly I mean get rid of it ;-) )
[23:39] <len-nb> Back in a minute...
[23:45] <CFHowlett> Will the US 12.04 beta be available next week?  Couldn't seem to find an official US release calendar...
[23:46] <knome> ScottL, i'm just kidding :)
[23:47] <ScottL> CFHowlett, we follow the same as ubuntu
[23:48] <CFHowlett> ScottL   thanks for the confirmation.  Looking forward to testing the new build!
[23:48] <knome> Len-1204, thanks for the compliments ;)