[12:13] <carlos> daf: how was the party?
[12:34] <daf> it was good
[01:24] <carlos> good night, I want to wake up early tomorrow
[10:09] <daf> good morning
[10:11] <carlos> daf: morning
[10:37] <daf> carlos: how was your day yesterday?
[10:38] <carlos> well, it was not as productive as I thought, the Efforts task took me more time I wanted.
[10:38] <carlos> but I think I have now a clear image about schema/label
[10:39] <daf> I thought we were working on beta-critical stuff?
[10:39] <carlos> daf: that should be working for beta
[10:39] <carlos> We talked about that
[10:39] <carlos> and was already on my tasks list
[10:39] <daf> oh, ok
[10:39] <daf> I thought it was non-beta-crtitical
[10:39] <carlos> Also, the statistics graphs are ready for limi's magic
[10:40] <carlos> daf: Don't worry, the "big" part of my work is also needed for the People/prefered languages
[10:40] <daf> ok
[10:41] <carlos> daf: Lu asked for it last week, I thought it was needed for the beta..
[10:42] <daf> hmm, I should have posted the list I made up on the wiki
[10:47] <carlos> daf: spoken-languages is fine for you as the name for the schema?
[10:48] <carlos> or 'know-languages'
[10:48] <daf> translation-languages, perhaps
[10:50] <carlos> Hmm, the Labels should be created with the script that fills the Languages/Countries tables
[10:52] <daf> hmm, it would be nice if the user didn't have to navigate through products to get to PO templates
[10:53] <carlos> daf: With lots of templates is not easy to do it without a bloated page
[10:53] <carlos> daf: we need to import data
[10:54] <carlos> real data
[10:54] <carlos> to see how will look like it
[10:55] <carlos> hmmm. I just had an idea about the schemas/labels
[10:56] <carlos> daf: I'm thinking on storing only the language code instead of the name, and then make another query to the Language table
[10:56] <carlos> to get the english name and the native name
[10:56] <carlos> that way the duplicated data is small
[11:15] <daf> what's the status of the preferred languages things?
[11:15] <daf> do you think it will be ready soon?
[11:16] <carlos> daf: I have the sample data ready
[11:16] <carlos> I'm starting now with the code development
[11:16] <daf> cool
[11:16] <daf> I suppose it's not really going to have much effect until we have authentication working
[11:17] <carlos> Hmm, true, but we could "hardcode" one of the sample persons (you, lalo or I)
[11:17] <carlos> and then, if we change the database, the list of languages will also change
[11:21] <carlos> Breakfast time, see you later
[11:53] <daf> carlos: did you get a chance to look at my changes to the export document?
[11:53] <carlos> upps
[11:54] <carlos> I forgot it O:-)
[11:54] <carlos> sorry
[11:54] <carlos> I will do it today
[11:54] <daf> no problem
[12:07] <SteveA> hi
[12:09] <daf> hi Steve
[12:12] <carlos> hi
[01:20] <SteveA> lulu: can we talk about the authentication for the websites?
[01:43] <limi> apparently not :]
[01:43] <SteveA> limi: hi
[01:44] <limi> hi SteveA
[01:44] <carlos> daf: Language preferences is working :-P
[01:45] <daf> carlos: ooh
[01:45] <carlos> daf: and you are the "default" until we get the login stuff in place :-P
[01:48] <daf> heh
[01:49] <carlos> wow, the arch commits list works again, no more garbage....
[01:51] <daf> yes, I think lifeless fixed it
[01:57] <carlos> daf: My next tasks is finish the efforts code
[01:57] <carlos> daf: Do you have anything more important for me?
[01:58] !dmwaters:*! Hi all, we're currently being nailed with drones, we're doing our best to get things under control
[01:58] <daf> there must be something more important thant that :)
[01:59] <carlos> Could you populate the task board with pending things?
[01:59] <daf> don't we need scripts for creating projects, products, people, etc?
[02:01] <carlos> yes, but I think Lalo is working on it already
[02:01] <daf> do we have a user interface for setting language preferences?
[02:01] <daf> I see that's on the task board
[02:02] <carlos> daf: but that should be added to the user preferences, shouldn't it?
[02:03] <carlos> daf: where you configure your login, email, etc, etc...
[02:03] <carlos> Do we have it already in any place?
[02:03] <carlos> limi: Could you review https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/rosetta/projects/gnome and https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/?
[02:04] <daf> carlos: yes, it should be on the preference page
[02:04] <daf> carlos: I don't think we have one yet
[02:05] <carlos> limi: when you have more than one language we have the same links for every language. Is that ok from the usability point of view?
[02:05] <carlos> daf: Is it included in Steve's work?
[02:05] <daf> carlos: I think the fact that clicking on different languages gives you the same thing is ugly/confusing
[02:06] <daf> carlos: no
[02:06] <carlos> daf: me too, that's why I'm asking limi, because I just noticied it :-(
[02:06] <daf> SteveA has been working on the non-UI side of the auth stuff
[02:06] <carlos> ok
[02:06] <daf> SteveA: have you merged any of the auth stuff yet?
[02:06] <carlos> Do we have any place where lists the things a user will be able to configure from there?
[02:07] <carlos> I suppose that the DB schema has been updated to store the user password, right? (I don't remember any field to store it)
[02:09] <limi> the Translation Overview page shouldn't have the languages before you have selected a product, afaik
[02:10] <limi> :)
[02:10] <limi> and, "A system error occurred." ;)
[02:10] <carlos> URL?
[02:10] <limi> https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/translate
[02:10] <limi> you guys desperately need unit tests soon :)
[02:10] <limi> it's going to be totally unmanagable if not
[02:11] <daf> limi: we've just added unit tests to that page
[02:11] <daf> limi: I've fixed that bug but haven't merged it yet
[02:12] <carlos> limi: Then, If the project list does not know about any language...
[02:13] <carlos> limi: should I calculate the average of all languages?
[02:14] <carlos> That will break the statistics or we need to specify a list of translations we care
[02:14] <carlos> because there are lots of languages that does not have any translation
[02:14] <limi> yes, I thought this was the page where it would show the summary for all languages?
[02:15] <carlos> hmmm
[02:15] <carlos> sorry
[02:15] <carlos> :-P
[02:15] <carlos> only the summary of all languages a translator knows, right?
[02:17] <limi> on the overview page, full summary
[02:17] <carlos> daf: upps, You need to update your database to get working new rosetta
[02:17] <limi> this is the thing that Mark wanted, remember?
[02:17] <limi> with the overall project language stats
[02:17] <daf> carlos: huh?
[02:18] <carlos> daf: rosetta servers have my last code changes
[02:18] <carlos> but the database does not have the needed data
[02:18] <carlos> limi: I know
[02:18] <limi> ok
[02:18] <limi> :)@
[02:18] <carlos> but I'm focusing on the other part of the stats
[02:19] <limi> on the overview page (is this an Effort?), the current stats make less sense
[02:19] <carlos> limi: why?
[02:20] <limi> because you need some aggregation anyway
[02:21] <limi> if it should show anything, it's the summary of all the products inside the project
[02:21] <limi> can you easily report that?
[02:22] <carlos> per language or globally?
[02:23] <carlos> I can do both
[02:24] <limi> per language would be nice
[02:25] <carlos> limi: that's what we have already at https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome
[02:25] <carlos> hmm
[02:25] <limi> ok
[02:25] <carlos> no, sorry, is not the same
[02:25] <carlos> but the code is the same
[02:25] <carlos> so it's already done
[02:25] <limi> ok
[02:26] <limi> but we have separate pages for Effort and Project now, right?
[02:26] <carlos> not yet
[02:26] <carlos> but we will have it soon
[02:27] <carlos> SteveA: please ping me as soon as you are free, I need to know the status of the login/session code. thanks
[02:27] <carlos> daf: until I get an answer from Steve, I will finish the efforts part. Ok?
[02:28] <limi> ok
[02:28] <limi> :)
[02:28] <limi> nice work
[02:29] <carlos> limi: did you saw the new statistics vars? Do you need anything else?
[02:32] <carlos> limi: I suppose you should add a note at /rosetta/projects/gnome so the user knows that the values are related to all languages she's interested on translate
[02:32] <limi> yes
[02:32] <limi> I'm going to move things about a bit :)
[02:34] <carlos> limi: ok
[02:35] <daf> carlos: there are more important things than translation efforts
[02:35] <daf> carlos: I think you can start writing the template for the preference page without Steve's work
[02:36] <carlos> daf: But I don't have any idea about how will it work, where will it be hosted and if it's a rosetta specific page or launchpad one
[02:36] <daf> ok
[02:37] <daf> for now, we will put it at /rosetta/preferences
[02:37] <daf> and the only preference it will have is the language preferences
[02:37] <carlos> ok
[02:37] <SteveA> hi carlos.  I'll be merging the auth code today
[02:38] <daf> and I think it should work more or less like the other forms we have in Rosetta
[02:38] <carlos> SteveA: ok, please notify me it as soon as it's ready
[02:38] <daf> you might like to look at test/test_browser.py for test cases I've added for the view classes
[02:38] <SteveA> ok
[02:38] <carlos> daf: ok
[02:41] <limi> shhh, everybody be quiet, lulu is back O:)
[02:41] <carlos> :-P
[02:43] <lulu> SteveA: sorry hon - was away from my desk....
[02:43] <lulu> SteveA: sure...
[02:43] <SteveA> hi
[02:43] <lulu> hey - how was your trip back?
[02:44] <SteveA> it was okay.  I felt really tired yesterday, though.
[02:44] <SteveA> much better today
[02:45] <SteveA> so, I took yesterday off, as the bank holiday.
[02:45] <lulu> good - I'm sure everyone's needed some recovery time.
[02:45] <SteveA> websites and authentication:  we have the ubuntu plone site.
[02:45] <lulu> I also need to hat to you about the app server. James is already onto the webserver stuff. Zope and Plone are huge! :o)
[02:46] <SteveA> we discussed having the plone site do authentication against a launchpad app server via xmlrpc (or something similar)
[02:46] <lulu> yup
[02:47] <lulu> McQuarie = app server and not accessing Emperor direct makes James very happy.
[02:47] <SteveA> ok.  I can arrange for the code to be written in launchpad that will do this.  Who will write the code to make plone do this?
[02:47] <SteveA> is this part of upfront's contract?
[02:48] <lulu> No. They are purely commissioned to do installation and config. But I can ask them to quote on it, if they have the know how.
[02:48] <SteveA> limi: what's the standard way to do pluggable auth in plone?
[02:48] <lulu> I will need a comprehensive spec from you please.
[02:48] <limi> any way Zope does it
[02:49] <SteveA> I wonder what roche would recommend.
[02:50] <SteveA> lulu: how about I mail roche, explain the overall plan, and ask him what he'd suggest?
[02:50] <lulu> sure - I'll send you an email with his details - pls cc me on correspondence with him,
[02:51] <SteveA> I'll cc you.  I know roche already, though.
[02:54] <lulu> SteveA: great.
[03:00] <daf> good idea
[03:07] <limi> lulu: btw, could you forward me the summary we made of the theft at the hotel? my insurance company wants it.
[03:08] <lulu> Limi: sure.
[03:09] <lulu> limi: Jane is looking for you & also - the Squid setup for Plone file - could you check with James that it's readable and what he needs. Thanks :o)
[03:11] <SteveA> the squid set-up for the parts that forward requests to launchpad will be a bit different.
[03:11] <SteveA> but, we can add that to the set-up later on, after the ubuntu and canonical parts are done.
[03:14] <limi> lulu: uhm, I've already sent the file twice, what's missing?
[03:16] <lulu> limi: as you saw from James' email - is that what he should be expecting? I cannot read the binary. Pls check with him he has what he needs. cheers.
[05:46] <carlos> limi: ping
[05:47] <carlos> limi: I need some help
[05:47] <carlos> with a page
[05:47] <limi> ok
[05:47] <carlos> it's a list of languages
[05:47] <carlos> and the user will select the ones he/she knows about
[05:48] <limi> ok
[05:48] <carlos> here you have the output I get:
[05:48] <carlos> http://gollum.pemas.net/~carlos/translator.html
[05:48] <carlos> I don't have the .css but it's the translator's dashboard modified
[05:49] <limi> yup
[05:49] <limi> I have a widget for that
[05:49] <carlos> I know it's not a good way to put that information
[05:49] <carlos> so don't blame me for the big list :-P
[05:50] <limi> why are all the language names in English?
[05:50] <carlos> The code that generate that page will be at rocketfuel in some minutes
[05:50] <carlos> limi: just testing :-)
[05:50] <limi> ok
[05:50] <carlos> should I change anything at browser.py to use the widget?
[05:52] <limi> no, I don't mean widgets in the Z3 sense ;)
[05:54] <carlos> daf: we need a way to cache the language list, we have now 632 in the database and the webpage I have to list all them takes about 3 seconds in my laptop to query the list do some checks and render it
[05:54] <limi> it can be cached heavily, it really doesn't change very often
[05:54] <carlos> limi: then, Should I do anything, or just implement the form summit for that page as I have it now?
[05:55] <limi> carlos: just put in what you have, and I will go and add the widgets
[05:55] <carlos> limi: it's now at rocketfuel
[05:56] <carlos> the submit is not yet at rocketfuel, I'm still working on it
[05:56] <limi> ok
[05:58] <daf> carlos: well, it should run much faster on the server
[05:59] <daf> carlos: if it's still slow on the server, we'll optimise it then
[05:59] <carlos> ok
[05:59] <carlos> daf: could you update the server's  database, rosetta is broken until it's update
[05:59] <carlos> ?
[05:59] <daf> ok
[06:00] <carlos> thanks
[06:03] <daf> one
[06:03] <daf> done
[06:03] <daf> (I think)
[06:05] <carlos> daf: yes, it works now
[06:06] <carlos> daf: hmm, I don't get this error in my computer: https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/translator
[06:08] <daf> neither do I
[06:09] <daf> SteveA: I'm getting a weird error
[06:10] <daf> SteveA: I think it's because sqlos is trying to create a DatabaseException with the wrong number of parameters
[06:10] <carlos> daf: it comes from my latest changes, do you have them?
[06:10] <daf> no, I don't
[06:10] <carlos> then it's normal you don't get the error in your local machine :-)
[06:11] <SteveA> daf: can you paste it into jabber?
[06:11] <daf> SteveA: sure
[06:11] <daf> carlos: :)
[06:32] <carlos> daf: How could I know if a checkbox is checked or not from the Submit method?
[06:33] <carlos> self.request.form[checkbox_name] .checked?
[06:33] <SteveA> this is a tough problem
[06:33] <SteveA> no
[06:33] <SteveA> so, all you can tell is if a checkbox is checked
[06:34] <SteveA> you cannot tell the difference between a checkbox being unchecked, and a checkbox not being there at all
[06:34] <carlos> hmm
[06:34] <carlos> ok, it should not be a problem
[06:34] <carlos> for this page in concrete
[06:34] <SteveA> to see what you get out of a particular form, put <div tal:content="request" /> a the bottom of a page
[06:34] <carlos> thanks
[06:34] <SteveA> you'll see a bulleted-list output of the request
[06:35] <carlos> ok
[06:39] <daf> or, to put it differently,
[06:42] <carlos> X-)
[06:43] <carlos> daf: the tla undo is the only thing that keeps me to blame arch :-)
[06:43] <daf> carlos: sorry?
[06:45] <carlos> daf: sorry, /s/blame/speak badly about/
[06:46] <daf> "keeps me to" or "keeps me from"? :)
[06:46] <carlos> from
[06:47] <carlos> keep moving, nothing to see here...
[06:47] <carlos> :-P
[06:48] <daf> no worries, English idioms are hard :)
[06:50] <daf> muy difcil
[06:50] <carlos> daf: :-)
[06:52] <daf> humph:
[06:52] <daf> DatabaseException: unindexable object
[06:53] <carlos> SteveA: How could I use different sentences like <div tal:content="view/submit" /> inside the same template?, It's a template with three forms and I want to use different methods for every form
[06:53] <carlos> daf: URL?
[06:54] <SteveA> carlos: there are various ways of doing this
[06:54] <SteveA> first though, I must point out the usability pitfall:
[06:54] <SteveA> is it obvious to someone using one part of the form that values they enter or change in the other parts of the form will be lost?
[06:55] <SteveA> actually, you have a choice about this, if you take the approach I will describe.
[06:55] <SteveA> so, have one form.  That is, one set of <form action="+name" method="post"> ... </form>
[06:55] <carlos> yes, it's easy to know that the other changes will be lost
[06:56] <SteveA> inside the form, have three submit buttons with different names:
[06:56] <SteveA>  <input type="submit" name="submit1" value=" hello, button one here" />
[06:56] <SteveA>  <input type="submit" name="submit2" value=" hello, button two here" />
[06:56] <SteveA>  <input type="submit" name="submit3" value=" hello, button three here" />
[06:57] <SteveA> also, as with other forms, include a <div tal:replace="view/processForm" tal:omit-tag="" /> element, or something similar that calls "processForm()" on the view class.
[06:58] <SteveA> then, in the processForm method, you can have an "if" statement that decides which button was pressed.
[06:58] <SteveA>
[06:58] <SteveA> Another method of doing this whole thing is to have three separate <form action="+name" method="post"> </form> elements.
[06:59] <carlos> hmm, and how could I know which button was pressed? like the checkbutton? if it's pressed it will be there as a form element?
[06:59] <SteveA> you can make the submit buttons have the magic name <input type="submit" name="handlerOne:action" value="press to submit" />
[06:59] <SteveA> this will cause the "handlerOne()" method on your view class to be called
[06:59] <SteveA> when the form is submitted.
[06:59] <SteveA> I advise against doing this, though
[07:00] <SteveA> as it is rather magical
[07:00] <carlos> ok, then we forget this option :-)
[07:01] <SteveA> if you want to make the forms distinct, then have three form elements, but use different names on the submit buttons to distinguish them
[07:01] <SteveA> and handle them the same
[07:02] <daf> carlos: it's something to do with my local changes, I think
[07:02] <carlos> daf: ok
[07:02] <daf> the last bit of Rosetta code in the trace is a .count() call
[07:02] <carlos> SteveA: ok
[07:03] <carlos> thanks
[07:49] <carlos> daf: I need to get the ID for a row of the Schema table from browser.py and I don't know how could I do it without using the SQL Objects methods, is there any way to use getUtility to do it?
[07:55] <SteveA> if you need that, it should be part of the interface you're using
[07:55] <SteveA> that way, it is just an integer id
[07:55] <SteveA> you don't care if it comes from the database or whatever
[07:58] <carlos> SteveA: but I need a way to query that object
[07:59] <carlos> with the languages it's done with getUtility(ILanguages) and I get an object that let's me iterate over all available languages
[08:01] <SteveA> oh, okay
[08:01] <SteveA> so, you'll need one of those for schemas, I guess
[08:02] <carlos> ok
[08:03] <carlos> grrr
[08:03] <SteveA> you need to search for a particular schema object, right?
[08:04] <SteveA> so, you'll need an object that gives you an ability to do that search
[08:04] <carlos> yes
[08:04] <carlos> ok
[08:34] <SteveA> who wrote: from canonical.rosetta.interfaces import *  ?
[08:35] <SteveA> in sql.py
[08:35] <SteveA> we can only use "from xxx import *" where "xxx" defines an __all__ in the module
[08:37] <carlos> No idea
[08:56] <daf> SteveA: ok
[08:56] <daf> SteveA: I can't remember who wrote that
[08:56] <daf> I might be guilty
[08:56] <SteveA> the dependencies are now unclear
[08:57] <SteveA> I think I'm almost ready to check in the auth stuff
[08:57] <daf> I'll half-heartedly argue that it's not so bad in this case because interfaces.py contains (absolutely should contain) nothing but interface declarations
[08:57] <SteveA> it obviously also contains Interface and Attribute
[08:57] <SteveA> and perhaps other schema stuff
[08:58] <daf> ah, right
[08:58] <SteveA> and also any interfaces that the rosetta interfaces extend
[09:17] <carlos> hmm
[09:17] <carlos> funny...
[09:17] <carlos> ProgrammingError: ERROR: column personlabel.id does not exist SELECT PersonLabel.id, PersonLabel.person, PersonLabel.label FROM PersonLabel WHERE PersonLabel.person = 14 AND PersonLabel.label = 4 LIMIT 1
[09:17] <carlos> The table does not have such field 'id'
[09:19] <carlos> daf: Any idea about how could I do a select in that case?
[09:19] <carlos> personLabel = RosettaPersonLabel.select('''
[09:19] <carlos>             PersonLabel.person = %d AND
[09:19] <carlos>             PersonLabel.label = %d''' %
[09:19] <carlos>             (self.id, label.id))[0]
[09:20] <daf> hmm
[09:20] <carlos> that's what I have now, before that I had a selectBy, but It also fails
[09:20] <daf> I think SQLObject does not like tables without IDs :)
[09:21] <SteveA> correct
[09:21] <carlos> funny
[09:21] <carlos> SteveA: any suggestion?
[09:21] <SteveA> I just merged auth into RF
[09:21] <SteveA> but, it was a messy merge
[09:21] <SteveA> so, I might have accidentally broken something
[09:21] <carlos> I only need a SQLObject to add and remove records to that table nothing more
[09:22] <SteveA> at your earliest convenience, can you try merging from RF, and see if stuff works for you?
[09:22] <carlos> the "normal" queries are handled by a RelatedJoin
[09:23] <daf> SteveA: according to the PQM log, your merge up contained patches doing nothing but merging down
[09:23] <SteveA> hmm
[09:24] <SteveA> tla changes here shows nothing
[09:24] <daf> did you merge the correct branch?
[09:24] <carlos> SteveA: are you sure you have your mirror updated?
[09:24] <SteveA> new files are committed to my archive
[09:25] <SteveA> perhaps I do not have my mirror updated
[09:25] <daf> "tla tree-lint"?
[09:25] <SteveA> what's the "do a mirror" command?
[09:26] <carlos> tla push-mirror $ARCH_ARCHIVE $ARCH_CATEGORY
[09:26] <SteveA> tla archive-mirror
[09:26] <daf> carlos: one of the ftests is failing because you added sample data, I think
[09:26] <carlos> hmmm
[09:26] <carlos> daf: yes, it's possible
[09:26] <daf> "make fullcheck"
[09:26] <carlos> daf: the multiline && plural forms one
[09:27] <SteveA> ok, I am mirroring
[09:27] <SteveA> thanks carlos
[09:27] <daf> carlos: exactly
[09:27] <carlos> I will fix it now
[09:29] <daf> thanks
[09:29] <carlos> daf: I need to leave now (after fixing the test) if I want to have a chance to pass tomorrow's exam. The Language edition is more or less implemented, It lacks some error checks and fix the problem with SQLObjects and perhaps any other thing I forgot, but I'm not able to fix it now. Do you want it committed or what should I do?
[09:31] <daf> go and revise :)
[09:31] <daf> if you like, you could send me a changeset and I could finish it off
[09:32] <daf> grmmm:
[09:32] <daf>   File "/home/daf/src/canonical/dists/launchpad/lib/sqlobject/dbconnection.py", line 189, in _executeRetry
[09:32] <daf>     return cursor.execute(query.encode('utf8'))
[09:32] <daf> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 96: ordinal not in range(128)
[09:32] <SteveA> well, indeed
[09:33] <SteveA> the query is not ascii nor unicode
[09:33] <carlos> daf: ok, I will send you the patch
[09:33] <SteveA> why that is, I do not know
[09:34] <daf> it's  in latin-1
[09:34] <SteveA> that is bad
[09:35] <SteveA> strings in python are just bytes
[09:35] <SteveA> they do not know what encoding they are in
[09:35] <SteveA> where does the latin-1 string come from?
[09:35] <daf> I was just observing
[09:35] <SteveA> for an?
[09:37] <carlos> daf: the ftest fails because a problem in sql.py
[09:37] <carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/rosetta/sql.py", line 385, in __getitem__
[09:37] <carlos>     elif isinstance(key, string):
[09:37] <carlos> NameError: global name 'string' is not defined
[09:37] <carlos> also, I need to update the test
[09:37] <daf> SteveA: capital A with tilde
[09:37] <carlos> but there are other problems there
[09:37] <SteveA> ?
[09:37] <daf> that should be isinstance(key, str)
[09:38] <daf> there are other ocurrences of 0xc3, but no A-tilde
[09:38] <SteveA> there should not be an A-tilde in the source
[09:38] <SteveA> as our source should be all in ascii
[09:38] <daf> they are in the test data
[09:38] <SteveA> oh
[09:38] <SteveA> how is the test data getting into the software?
[09:39] <daf> through the test code, I imagine
[09:39] <daf> I'm not familiar with the import/export tests
[09:39] <carlos> daf: the test data should have only escaped unicode chars ..
[09:39] <daf> carlos: "escaped"?
[09:39] <daf> it all looks like UTF-8 to me
[09:39] <carlos> \traducci\xc3\xb3n
[09:40] <SteveA> ok, my merge went through
[09:40] <daf> carlos: gnome-terminal.po
[09:40] <carlos> yes, sorry, utf-8 chars not unicode ones
[09:40] <SteveA> apologies in advance if I broke something
[09:40] <carlos> daf: aahh, no idea then
[09:41] <SteveA> when strings get into the domain code, and the database code, they should be one of two things:
[09:41] <SteveA> * python unicode objects
[09:41] <SteveA> * python str objects that are to be treated as opaque 8-bit data
[09:41] <SteveA> there should be no str objects meant to be treated as character strings
[09:42] <SteveA> the code that interacts with the outside world (browser, files, database, etc.) must carefully deal with encoded strings, and convert them to unicode objects
[09:42] <SteveA> unless we really want to preserve the data, in which case it is "data"
[09:44] <carlos> daf: File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/rosetta/sql.py", line 397, in __getitem__
[09:44] <carlos>     sets = RosettaPOMessageSet.select('''
[09:44] <carlos> NameError: global name 'msgid_obj' is not defined
[09:45] <carlos> daf: I'm going to have dinner now, please commit all fixes when you finish and that way I will be able to get the missing data easily. Ok?
[09:45] <daf> carlos: I've fixed that one
[09:46] <carlos> daf: did you requested a merge?
[09:46] <daf> I'm tring to fix the Unicode problem first
[09:46] <carlos> ok
[09:47] <carlos> just tell me when it's done and I will fix it tonight
[09:47] <carlos> later
[09:50] <daf> ah, I think it was because of a message being encoded as UTF-8 twice
[09:51] <daf> once in canonical.rosetta.sql and again in sqlo{s,bject}
[10:13] <daf> SteveA: I think you forgot to update the SQL test generation code when you modified canonical.rosetta.interfaces
[11:27] <carlos> daf: Now that you mention it... I did some interfaces update and did not update it, sorry. I will add the tests tomorrow.


[02:18] <ahoneybun> pleia2: think you can make it to fossetcon again this year
[02:18] <ahoneybun> ?
[02:18] <pleia2> ahoneybun: unfortunately not
[02:18] <pleia2> my editor is going to kill me if I don't stay home and work on my book soon :)
[02:19] <ahoneybun> oh right lol
[02:19] <pleia2> oh, fossetcon is the one in november
[02:19] <ahoneybun> yea
[02:19] <pleia2> not going to that because I will have just come home from 1 month of travel
[02:19] <pleia2> need kitty time <3
[02:20] <ahoneybun> my dad said my dog was missing me during my week away
[02:20] <pleia2> aw
[02:20] <ahoneybun> she's always so hyper so hard to tell if it was me
[02:20] <ahoneybun> lol
[02:21] <pleia2> haha
[02:21] <pleia2> my cats do get upset when I'm gone for a while :\
[02:21] <pleia2> when I come back they sleep on me for like 3 days
[02:21] <ahoneybun> I'm making plans for a release party like yours from debian
[02:21] <pleia2> then they go back to ignoring me at night
[02:21] <ahoneybun> XD
[02:23] <ahoneybun> I'm working out a way to make werewolf themes paper plates
[02:23] <pleia2> haha, cool
[02:23] <ahoneybun> just wonder if food coloring would work on the plates lol
[02:23] <pleia2> Debian is fun because toy story, Jessie was a great one
[02:23] <ahoneybun> yea
[02:23] <ahoneybun> I saved a link to that werewolf pushie
[02:23] <ahoneybun> still need to buy thata
[02:23] <ahoneybun> *that
[02:24] <ahoneybun> can you see this: https://keep.google.com/#LIST/1439172389363.119496814
[02:24] <ahoneybun> ?
[02:24] <pleia2> haha, google searches for: werewolf birthday party
[02:24] <pleia2> so good
[02:24] <pleia2> no, it goes to my google keep :)
[02:24] <ahoneybun> I see
[02:24] <ahoneybun> lol
[02:25] <pleia2> gosh, now I want to do a werewolf release party
[02:25] <pleia2> but I'll be in Japan
[02:25]  * pleia2 never home for October releases
[02:26] <ahoneybun> wow Japan
[02:26] <ahoneybun> I'm wondering how hard this would be: https://www.colourbox.com/preview/2781732-illustration-on-theme-of-halloween-wolf-and-red-moon-silhouette-avatar.jpg
[02:26] <ahoneybun> make plates like that
[02:26] <ahoneybun> cut one and paste it to another one
[02:27] <pleia2> or pumpkins :)
[02:27] <ahoneybun> fast twitter
[02:27] <ahoneybun> XD
[02:27] <pleia2> do you have pumpkins in florida?
[02:27] <pleia2> hehe
[02:27] <ahoneybun> we do
[02:27] <ahoneybun> I love pumpkin pie really
[02:28] <ahoneybun> pumpkin plates or craving a werewolf in one?
[02:28] <pleia2> carving a werewolf into one
[02:28] <ahoneybun> I've never done that
[02:28] <pleia2> carved a pumpkin?
[02:29] <ahoneybun> yea
[02:29] <ahoneybun> http://www.teachpreschool.org/2013/10/the-value-of-a-paper-plate-pumpkin/
[02:29] <pleia2> I don't even know how to respond to that :) is it not a florida thing, or just you?
[02:29] <ahoneybun> me
[02:29] <ahoneybun> my ex did it with her family
[02:29] <pleia2> it's fun if you don't slice your hand open with the knife
[02:30] <ahoneybun> yea that kinda kills the fun
[02:30] <pleia2> :)
[02:30] <ahoneybun> or you
[02:30] <ahoneybun> depending on where the cut is
[02:30] <pleia2> it does
[02:30] <ahoneybun> but anyway
[02:30] <ahoneybun> it would be cool
[02:31] <ahoneybun> plus a whole new thing
[02:31] <ahoneybun> I've been thinking about cookies/cake
[02:31] <ahoneybun> so many ideas
[02:31] <pleia2> :D
[02:32] <ahoneybun> I found this today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Materials
[02:32] <ahoneybun> been wondering about it
[02:33] <ahoneybun> there was a project at akademy called WikiFM for Class Courses
[02:34] <pleia2> it's dead :(
[02:34] <ahoneybun> http://en.wikifm.org/Main_Page
[02:34] <ahoneybun> Yea I see
[02:34] <pleia2> I think it was just too much work for a volunteer team
[02:34] <pleia2> I still lurk in #ubuntu-learning, but it's been a few years since anyone did anything
[02:34] <ahoneybun> wondering about bring it back
[02:34] <pleia2> we had a moodle instance for a while, some former ubuntu contributors wrote some content
[02:34] <pleia2> you're welcome to!
[02:35] <ahoneybun> wound need to see what needs updating
[02:35] <ahoneybun> mostly everything I would think
[02:35] <pleia2> yeah
[02:35] <ahoneybun> first thing would be the images on that page
[02:35] <ahoneybun> for each course
[02:36] <ahoneybun> I wrote to the WikiFM mailing list to see what everyone thought about it
[02:38] <ahoneybun> damn login
[02:38] <pleia2> ah yes, old ubuntu branding
[02:39] <ahoneybun> damn login is stuck
[02:39] <pleia2> oh yeah, the wiki takes like 10 minutes for me to log into
[02:39] <pleia2> 5 minutes for the first try, 5 minutes for the second
[02:39] <pleia2> :D
[02:39] <pleia2> my strategy: never log out
[02:39] <ahoneybun> it does it anyway
[02:40] <ahoneybun> doesn't help with my new SSD
[02:40] <ahoneybun> I do have some ubuntu design assets
[02:44] <ahoneybun> pleia2: I'm working on a new Ubuntu Materials banner first
[18:05] <PaulW2U> editorial review done
[19:08] <jose> PaulW2U: cool. I'll take care of releasing later today, finalizing some ubuconla stuff :)
[19:47] <Unit193> pleia2: Oh sorry, it got lost in my screen windows again!  http://ubuntupodcast.org/2015/08/07/s08e22-daniel-the-wizard/ seems to be cloudflare offline, but likely not important.
[21:08] <PaulW2U> above link seems to be ok now
[21:30] <PaulW2U> jose: great - if you have any problems with the forums let me know as I can definitely help you there :)
[23:50] <jose> PaulW2U: cool! thanks!
[23:50] <jose> working on publishing now


[10:41] <macvr> SiDi: hi... could u hav a look at the breathe submissions wiki... i'v uploaded another set, changed the nm-50 color too :) ...  any comments?
[10:41] <SiDi> alright, give me a sec
[10:41] <SiDi> im jubilating for my first gstreamer hello world app compiling and working !
[10:42] <macvr> whats the hello world app? any links?
[10:42] <SiDi> Heh, its just watching for volume change signals
[10:43] <macvr> ok...
[10:43] <SiDi> I like that little glow around the signal stripes
[10:43] <SiDi> how does it render in 24x24 though ?
[10:44] <macvr> the glow? faintly...
[10:44] <macvr> if the glow is a little larger then it looks horrible in 24x24!
[10:44] <SiDi> please render the icons and add them to submissions :P
[10:44] <SiDi> <- lazy
[10:45] <macvr> should u use gimp to convert them to 24x24 or how do i scale in inkscape?
[10:45] <macvr> ^I
[10:46] <SiDi> you should use inkscape
[10:46] <SiDi> ctrl+shift+e to render to bitmap
[10:46] <SiDi> well, i suppose its the way to do
[10:47] <SiDi> youu might want to ask the actual Breathe devs :]
[10:47] <macvr> oh i just use the 128x128 to render the 24x4 png?
[10:48] <SiDi> dont resize png's :p
[10:48] <SiDi> use the svg to make lower resolution png's
[10:48] <SiDi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ebreathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk/download/head:/breathe_icon_templat-20080905042226-bvdzo9fb8th94dyh-3/Breathe_Icon_Template.svg?file_id=template-20080905042226-bvdzo9fb8th94dyh-2
[10:49] <macvr> ok... i was about to resize in gimp...! just now saw the option to resize as png..,!
[10:49] <macvr> ah not the template... ! i get headaches trying to figure it out :P
[10:53] <SiDi> :p
[10:54] <SiDi> you _must_ use it for submissions :D
[10:56] <macvr> it is just "recomended" :P
[11:10] <macvr> SiDi: uploaded the 24x24 .. :)
[11:12] <SiDi> I barely see the antenna now ^^
[11:12] <SiDi> but the stripes look quite good
[11:12] <macvr> yeah ... the antannae is just to maintain the aspect of the wireless icon :P...
[11:13] <SiDi> i'll test them live later and see what it gives with my panel
[11:13] <macvr> i tested these colors with light/dark/transparent panels... works fine
[11:15] <macvr> SiDi: u use xubuntu right? is there an icon set brave /bravo? i think it has similar wireless icons but all green... do u have the icon set?
[11:16] <SiDi> hm
[11:16] <SiDi> i use xubuntu yeh
[11:16] <SiDi> but i use Human/breathe as an icon theme :p
[11:16] <SiDi> the gnome-brave ones are similar yeh
[11:17] <macvr> its just i saw the icon set in xubuntu and would like to compare if i could make any improvements... could u upload the set to the web?
[11:18] <SiDi> err, download it from gnome-look ;)
[11:18] <SiDi> or install xubuntu-artwork \o/
[11:18] <macvr> is it there?
[11:18] <SiDi> yeh
[11:19] <macvr> i tried searching... let me look again!
[13:21] <macvr> _MMA_: hi... have u checked the ones i'v uploaded today, are they better ?
[13:23] <_MMA_> macvr: I think they are. I want kwwii (since he's done like icon) or Sebastien to chime in on the mailing list.
[13:25] <macvr> _MMA_:ok.. oh... i forgot the mailing list... i'll send a mail too..
[13:25] <_MMA_> np
[13:26] <_MMA_> macvr: Only a few people are subscribed to the page edits.
[13:26] <macvr> _MMA_: yeah... i keep forgetting the mailing list...!
[13:27] <SiDi> I actually stopped following the page edits cause of massive spam it generates, personally :]
[13:27] <_MMA_> hahaha. Like the list isn't. :P
[13:28] <SiDi> _MMA_, btw i understand your point about moderated lists :D there have been a few epic "contributions" lately. Like that solaris manzur guy
[13:29] <_MMA_> SiDi: I'm on so many lists can you gimmie a link?
[13:29]  * _MMA_ also got off some lately though.
[13:30] <SiDi> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-May/author.html bottom of page
[13:33] <_MMA_> Oh I forgot all about him.
[13:33] <_MMA_> There will always be people who have an opposing view.
[13:34] <SiDi> well, it would be good if he was actually capable of explaining his point of view :]
[13:34] <SiDi> instead of trolling so hard
[13:34] <_MMA_> What will kill alot of people is that we're not doing something Tango-esque. And the fact that it's a design decision.
[13:36] <_MMA_> Well I dont think English is his native language. So folks like that often use words that at their face seem very harsh for a native speaker.
[13:36] <SiDi> true
[20:45] <pinheiro> hey
[20:45] <pinheiro> any one here from the brethe icon set?
[20:45] <SiDi> not at the moment, afaik
[20:46] <SiDi> got a message for them ? :P
[20:46] <pinheiro> no just wondering what it was
[20:46] <pinheiro> :)
[20:46] <pinheiro> seams prety based on oxygen and as oxygen maintainer i was wondering :)
[20:46] <SiDi> its based on oxygen indeed :)
[20:47] <SiDi> "Because Human needs Oxygen" is the subtitle of Breathe
[20:47] <pinheiro> :)
[20:49] <pinheiro> cheking it out
[20:49] <pinheiro> its prety difrent
[20:51] <pinheiro> couple of icons are oxygen
[20:51] <SiDi> its orange, maybe ? :P
[20:51] <pinheiro> but most no
[20:52] <pinheiro> yeah very orange
[20:52] <SiDi> they designed all the icons on their own, some are heavily based on oxygen, and some have been created from scratch
[20:52] <pinheiro> and my gess alot of difrent people working on them
[20:52] <pinheiro> couple of difrent styles
[20:53] <pinheiro> but best of luck on the project
[20:53] <pinheiro> seams a prety cool idea
[20:53] <SiDi> Not that many people actually
[20:53] <SiDi> most of the icons are from about 3/4 people
[20:53] <SiDi> but they did an awesome work :P Its rare to see actively developed icon themes
[20:54] <pinheiro> yeah
[20:54] <pinheiro> its a monster work
[20:55] <pinheiro> a complete icon set is in the range of the 2500 icons
[20:55] <pinheiro> fredesktop is just about 400 i think
[20:55] <pinheiro> still quite a big work
[20:55] <SiDi> well, there are many symlinks though
[20:56] <SiDi> if major DEs would agree on cleaning their icons' naming it would help a lot
[20:56] <pinheiro> ooo that is doen
[20:56] <pinheiro> done
[20:56] <pinheiro> check out full oxygen
[20:56] <pinheiro> its all fredesktop naming compatible
[20:57] <pinheiro> at least all ok kde is or iss soon becoming completly freedesktop naming compatible
[20:58] <SiDi> i wouldnt say the same of xfce^^ there are a few weird names here n there
[20:58] <pinheiro> in all icons not just the specific fredesktop ones
[20:58] <pinheiro> SiDi: some one needs to talk to  xfce^^ people then
[20:58] <pinheiro> :)
[20:59] <pinheiro> i have a prety hard time convincing the kde developers
[20:59] <SiDi> oh well, i dont think they have the time to go through it all now :P ill file bug reports one day or another, and provide patches wherever i can
[20:59] <SiDi> KDE has like 10x more developers than xfce, if not more
[21:00] <pinheiro> actualy we removed oxygen from kdebase to kdesuport so we can control that so developers just use the icons from oxygen
[21:00] <SiDi> whats the difference ?
[21:00] <pinheiro> they dont include icons any more
[21:00] <SiDi> im totally ignorant about kde stuff :D
[21:00] <pinheiro> oxygen is a dependency
[21:00] <pinheiro> a kde app as no icons
[21:01] <pinheiro> its dependent on oxygen
[21:01] <pinheiro> that avoids the usual icon duplication
[21:02] <pinheiro> so we are creting a rather large colection of good icons names
[21:02] <SiDi> wow, im not understanding at all :D
[21:02] <pinheiro> :)
[21:03] <pinheiro> say app xyz they nedd 23 icons
[21:03] <pinheiro> for all theyr tasks
[21:03] <pinheiro> oxygen makes those icons and names them
[21:03] <SiDi> and it only installs these ?
[21:03] <pinheiro> no
[21:03] <pinheiro> they require oxygen as a dependency
[21:03] <SiDi> hm, so you let KDE devs chose the icons they need and you _make_ the icons ?
[21:03] <pinheiro> yeap
[21:04] <pinheiro> http://tinyurl.com/33qfzs
[21:04] <pinheiro> hey swalko
[21:05] <SiDi> Wow ! :P
[21:05] <pinheiro> yes oxygen makes the icons and names them in a fredesktop way
[21:05] <pinheiro> that avoids duplication
[21:05] <pinheiro> making the same icon for 3 difrent apps and every time a bit difrently
[21:06] <swalko> pinheiro: hi
[21:08] <pinheiro> swalko: cheking out what breath is
[21:08] <pinheiro> :)
[21:09] <swalko> pinheiro: breathe?
[21:10] <pinheiro> https://launchpad.net/breathe-icon-set
[21:10] <swalko> pinheiro: for me breathe isnt as good as it want to be or as it may be
[21:11] <pinheiro> well oxygen took alot of time to define its style
[21:11] <pinheiro> was the worts part of the process
[21:11] <pinheiro> about 2 years
[21:12] <pinheiro> so i would give them time
[21:12] <swalko> pinheiro: you and oxygen in overall have experience
[21:12] <swalko> pinheiro: in creating icons and things around
[21:13] <pinheiro> yes
[21:13] <pinheiro> experience is aquiered by doing stuf
[21:13] <swalko> pinheiro: like creatings small icon sizes, exporting and etc
[21:13] <pinheiro> yeah
[21:14] <swalko> pinheiro: i created only one or two icons for oxygen, but it was big experience for me to work with you and oxygen too
[21:14] <pinheiro> was i meen?
[21:15] <pinheiro> i usualy am
[21:15] <pinheiro> :P
[21:15] <pinheiro> bit of a ovely critical person
[21:15] <pinheiro> so if i was plese sory
[21:15] <pinheiro> onestly
[21:17] <swalko> pinheiro: i am critical too, your critics was my motor :)
[21:17] <pinheiro> :)
[21:17] <pinheiro> any way best of luck for breath
[21:17] <pinheiro> there is not enough orange in the world
[21:17] <pinheiro> :D
[21:18] <swalko> pinheiro: :)
[21:18] <pinheiro> we alrady took blue :P
[21:40] <pinheiro> hehehehe just been declied as a member of the breathe team :)
[21:40] <pinheiro> hehehehhe
[21:49] <dashua> SiDi: Rev. 37 when you get a change.  Should be a bit more consistent.
[21:49] <dashua> chance*
[21:50] <SiDi> pulled :D
[21:50] <dashua> If it looks good to you and have time for xwfm, I'll make a page and a release
[21:50] <dashua> .1
[21:51] <SiDi> great :)
[21:51] <dashua> :)
[21:51] <SiDi> ill do the xfwm in a few days then
[21:51] <dashua> Awesome
[21:52] <dashua> I need to figure out releases on launchpad
[21:52] <dashua> Should be fairly simple
[21:52] <SiDi> but i'll make an alternate xfwm4 folder with the previous metacity too, cause i <3'd it :D
[21:52] <dashua> Ok np
[21:52] <SiDi> yeh. you just make the deb, and go post a big "RELEASED" on planet
[21:52] <dashua> Ha, I have no planet axx
[21:53] <SiDi> me neither ^^
[21:53] <dashua> Maybe I'll try for membership some day, but I do not feel worthy enough just yet =/
[21:55] <dashua> Does the old metacity still look good with the newest revision?
[21:55] <dashua> I guess it would.
[21:55] <dashua> All dark.
[21:55] <dashua> - the gradient
[21:59] <SiDi> Yes it does :)
[21:59] <SiDi> the toolbar color isnt the same
[21:59] <dashua> Ironic, Breathe is missing from Ubuntu-Art.org
[21:59] <SiDi> but with the same color i think it'd be sexy-ish
[21:59] <SiDi> oh :P indeed
[22:00] <dashua> I'll see if I can match the colors (old metacity)


[01:20] <fling> Odd_Bloke: trying ubuntu focal
[01:21] <fling> [FAILED] Failed to start LXD - agent - virtio-fs mount.
[01:21] <fling> [FAILED] Failed to start LXD - agent.
[01:22] <fling> What is the default username and password?
[05:37] <meena> faa, i know that dch has a monster aarch64 machine in his cellar, but from what i gather, every ARM machine is a bit special
[14:37] <Odd_Bloke> fling: Can we take this to #ubuntu-server?  (Can you re-ask your question there?)
[15:04] <Odd_Bloke> asakkurr: Landed! \o/
[17:01] <Odd_Bloke> Very small Travis PR modifying non-voting tests if a committer wants an easy review: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/683
[17:20] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: done
[17:20] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: Thanks!
[17:20] <blackboxsw> one nibble at a time :)
[20:36] <Odd_Bloke> lucasmoura: What's the reasoning behind using a custom profile for launching LXD VMs?  (I can't find justification in the code, and it seems to be causing me problems, so I'm just trying to understand the problem space. :)
[21:01] <falcojr> Odd_Bloke: this file might provide more context
[21:01] <falcojr> https://github.com/canonical/pycloudlib/blob/master/pycloudlib/lxd/defaults.py
[21:02] <falcojr> xenial and bionic need some custom config to work
[21:10] <Odd_Bloke> falcojr: Aha, right, thanks!
[22:46] <AnhVoMSFT> @Odd_Bloke @blackboxsw running tox on master failed on xenial - is that expected? I think some recent change in tox.ini broke it.
[22:47] <AnhVoMSFT> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9kwnmxCsdW/
[22:47]  * blackboxsw checks tox on xenial (currently running on focal here). and I think CI runs on bionic
[22:48] <AnhVoMSFT> updating tox to 2.3.2 fixed the issue, but xenial's latest package for tox is 2.3.1
[22:48] <blackboxsw> yep CI on bionic https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/master/.travis.yml#L2
[22:49] <AnhVoMSFT> yeah, we moved our CI to bionic as well so no issue there. Mostly for developer machine who is on xenial.
[22:49] <AnhVoMSFT> If this is by-design that's all good.
[22:50] <blackboxsw> I tihnk we have a xenial and xenial-dev target in tox to expressly allow developers to try running tox locally if on xenial (and not be pinned to the public release available in xenial)
[22:50] <blackboxsw> tox -e xenial-dev ?
[22:50] <blackboxsw> # but the version of pytest in xenial has a bug
[22:50] <blackboxsw> # (https://github.com/tox-dev/tox/issues/208) which means that the {posargs}
[22:50] <blackboxsw> the above target may work for that developer  AnhVoMSFT
[22:51] <blackboxsw> "tox -e xenial-dev" I mean
[22:53] <blackboxsw> hrm... nope still hitting the problem on my one xenial dev lxc  container
[22:53] <blackboxsw> though an older checkout of cloud-init was succeeding
[22:54] <blackboxsw> bisecting now
[22:58] <blackboxsw> looks like it was commit cd752df6154c403e6dccaf5e797c1d4f8396f756 maybe
[23:03] <blackboxsw> yeah if I were to drop  the integration-tests-ci substitutions here https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/master/tox.ini#L150-L152 then tox succeeds on xenal
[23:05] <blackboxsw> AnhVoMSFT: I'll put up a proper PR to allow xenial devs to continue
[23:06] <blackboxsw> same sort of fix we had to use for xenial-shared-deps in tox already. substvars are buggy on xenial
[23:22] <AnhVoMSFT> thanks @blackboxsw
[23:35] <blackboxsw> If it helps AnhVoMSFT https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/684
[23:35] <blackboxsw> some eyes will get on that tomorrow I'm sure


[00:02] <lifeless> mtaylor: its the older form of shelve
[00:03] <lifeless> mtaylor: for folk with old shelves they need to get ack
[00:09] <Peng_> Or for people on Windows, right?
[00:21] <garyvdm> Hi - I'm getting an error trying to commit which is quite weird.
[00:21] <garyvdm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/202463/
[00:21] <garyvdm> Could not acquire lock "/home/garyvdm/qbzr/wd/qbzr/.bzr/checkout/dirstate": (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable')
[00:22] <garyvdm> There is nothing that I am aware of that could be holding a lock.
[00:22] <garyvdm> Nothing running that is.
[00:24] <garyvdm> Ah - never mind - I had a bzr runinng in my ide that was stoped in pdb that was holding the lock.
[00:27] <poolie> hello
[00:31] <poolie> jam, thanks for the analysis of 390745
[00:38] <poolie> jml/thumper/mwh: I'm thinking about doing "reconfigure --stacked-on" or --unstacked soon
[00:39] <poolie> robert questions whether this is a good use of time or not
[00:39] <poolie> any opinions?
[00:39] <mwhudson> poolie: YES PLEASE
[00:42] <poolie> k
[00:42] <thumper> poolie: how would that interact with LP?
[00:43] <igc> morning
[00:43] <poolie> hello igc
[00:43] <poolie> thumper: um
[00:44] <igc> hi poolie, thumper
[00:44] <thumper> poolie: as in, reconfiguring a stacked LP branch
[00:44] <thumper> hi igc
[00:44] <poolie> it would work over hpss to let you configure branches to be either stacked or unstacked
[00:44] <poolie> not sure what you're asking
[00:44] <thumper> poolie:would it pull the necessary revisions from the stacked branch?
[00:44] <thumper> poolie: how about the ability to override the suggested stacking branch?
[00:45] <poolie> yes, it would potentially copy a lot of data when making the branch standalone
[00:45] <thumper> poolie: is incremental reconcile very hard?
[00:46] <poolie> lifeless estimates several days
[00:47] <lifeless> thumper: its tricky; gotta copy some data exclude others while simultaneously altering it
[00:48] <thumper> I'd say that is more important than playing with stacking right now
[00:48] <thumper> IMHO
[00:48] <thumper> or
[00:49] <thumper> some optimisations for reconcile on 2a formats
[00:49] <thumper> we're wanting to move more internal teams to the 2a format
[00:49] <thumper> and james_w's ubuntu branches
[00:49] <poolie> ok, that's useful feedback
[00:50] <poolie> though it's not necessarily either/or
[00:50] <thumper> heh
[00:50] <thumper> no
[00:50] <thumper> we want everything, and a pony
[00:50] <poolie> in that i'd need to page in a lot of robert's state to do renconcile
[00:50] <jml> delicious ponies.
[00:50] <poolie> but i can do the stacking thing fairly quickly
[00:51] <thumper> reduced swapping is always a win
[00:51] <thumper> I'd still like the ability to tell the bzr client not to stack no matter what LP suggests
[00:51] <thumper> which we can't do right now
[00:52] <lifeless> the streaming fetch bug is highest IMO
[00:52] <lifeless> reconcile is a pain, can't merge for lp developers is a blocker
[00:52] <lifeless> other teams have /way/ fewer devs per branch, which makes transition much easier. Also smaller history.
[00:53] <thumper> yeah
[00:53] <thumper> +1 on streaming fetch
[00:54] <spiv> lifeless: as in inventory deltas, or do you mean something else?
[00:54] <mwhudson> i was assuming reconfigure --unstacked/--stacked-on wouldn't be especially hard
[00:54] <poolie> me either
[00:54] <lifeless> spiv: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/390563
[00:54] <poolie> so easy a manager could do it
[00:54] <thumper> poolie: :)
[00:54] <thumper> poolie: also a definitive "don't stack" flag should be easy too right?
[00:55] <lifeless> mwhudson: the library call to change already takes care of fetch; more problematic is making a new repo when making a shared repo branch into a stacked branch
[00:55] <lifeless> thumper: don't stack may require smart server verb changes. FWIW
[00:55] <lifeless> thumper: but is a don't stack flag needed ?
[00:55] <thumper> lifeless: I thought we decided a while ago that stacking was determined entirely client side
[00:55] <poolie> so, seriously
[00:55] <poolie> i have to make some calls today
[00:56] <lifeless> thumper: I know the lp-code team have occasion to use it for testing, but outside that group?
[00:56] <poolie> i was hoping i could do one or the other of them in the time i do have today
[00:56] <thumper> lifeless: for unrelated branches, it is useful
[00:56] <thumper> although, perhaps limited use
[00:56] <thumper> poolie: pick one an do it!
[00:56] <thumper> :)
[00:56] <lifeless> thumper: /may/ require verb changes  ;)
[00:56] <lifeless> thumper: we have more verbs doing more things, now.
[00:57] <thumper> lifeless: is one "JFDI" ?
[00:57] <lifeless> for a small hack, I'd most like to see network activity not overwriting stuff when there is no progress bar. Or something like that. Its a very visible ugliness
[00:58] <poolie> lifeless: it's high on my list too
[00:59] <lifeless> mwhudson: the bzr log from codehosting
[01:00] <lifeless> mwhudson: is it safe to attach to the bug, or do you think there are things we'll want kept secret in them ?
[01:00] <mwhudson> lifeless: i think it's pretty unlikely there's anything sensitive in there
[01:04] <igc> poolie: ready for a call soon?
[01:04] <Peng_> Yep, pushing 2a -> 1.9rr over hpss isn't very fun. 22 seconds, while 2a -> 2a is 6.
[01:05] <Peng_> (For 11 revisions of loggerhead.)
[01:05] <poolie> igc, yes, let me get a couple of things closed here
[01:05] <poolie> will call you in 5?
[01:05] <Peng_> Still usable, of course, but it doesn't make dogfooding very fun.
[01:07] <igc> sure
[01:07] <lifeless> Peng_: indeed
[01:09] <Peng_> Well, I could upgrade lp:loggerhead to 2a when nobody's looking, and it would take them a while to figure it out... :D
[01:09] <lifeless> I wouldn't
[01:09] <lifeless> not till we fix the current set of critical bugs
[01:10] <Peng_> What is the current set of critical bugs?
[01:10] <Peng_> Absent factory, IDS being used for push, ?
[01:12] <lifeless> lp knows :P
[01:22] <Peng_> Yeah, that's mostly it, aside from some rich-root upgrade issues.
[01:25] <Peng_> The other one is cross-format inventory delta streaming.
[01:26] <lifeless> thats needed for cross format pushing to be pleasant
[01:49] <poolie> igc https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+milestone/2.0
[01:49] <poolie> Peng_: that url for you too
[01:49] <lifeless> spiv: what are you up to today? Could I request https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/338561 ?
[01:49] <poolie> lifeless, spiv, can you tell me about bug 390563 too?
[01:51] <lifeless> poolie: I'm investigating it at the moment
[01:51] <lifeless> poolie: all I know for sure is in the bug
[01:51] <lifeless> I think
[01:51] <Peng_> poolie: Oh, thanks.
[01:57] <spiv> lifeless: hmm, I could have sworn I fixed that a couple of months back.  Sure, I'll look at that.
[01:58] <lifeless> spiv: lots of them in ~/.bzr.log on lp codehosting ;)
[02:00] <SamB> spiv: could be that someone unfixed them
[02:00] <SamB> or that the fix somehow got lost before being merged...
[02:01] <lifeless> SamB: thats what we have tests for; and lp/bb both track merge status by revids
[02:01] <lifeless> SamB: e.g. 'no' ;)
[02:02] <lifeless> poolie: is there more you want to know about 390563?
[02:02] <SamB> lifeless: depending on how forgetful you are
[02:02] <SamB> and/or whether you actually manage to write said tests
[02:03] <spiv> SamB: it's possible that I actually just fixed something similar but not quite the same, too :)
[02:03] <spiv> SamB: my memory of things I did a few months ago tends to be pretty hazy.
[02:03] <SamB> spiv: yeah, there's also that
[02:03] <lifeless> spiv: a few months ago, at my place, we looked at it and said 'lets file a bug and keep going on streaming'
[02:06] <spiv> lifeless: ah
[02:07] <spiv> Also, I think before that I fixed a similar issue to do with streaming bodies, perhaps.
[02:07] <lifeless> yes, that rings a bell
[02:21] <mwhudson> er
[02:21] <mwhudson> pqm seems to be getting absentcontentfactory errors with two non-stacked branches
[02:23] <lifeless> mwhudson: details?
[02:23] <lifeless> mwhudson: push or pull
[02:24] <lifeless> could be bug 365615
[02:24] <mwhudson> lifeless: merge, i expect, i don't really know details
[02:24] <lifeless> mwhudson: who does
[02:24] <mwhudson> dunno
[02:24] <mwhudson> lifeless: all i'm going in is failure mails to the launchpad list
[02:25] <mwhudson> it could be 365615 i guess
[02:25] <mwhudson> a traceback would be nice...
[02:35] <fullermd> igc: Nice timing results...
[02:36] <igc> fullermd: indeed. jam rocks!
[02:36] <fullermd> 's almost enough to make me wanna see how long importing ports would take...
[02:37] <fullermd> Though I don't think I'd want my system murdering me in my sleep for doing so.
[02:37] <igc> (I'm guessing his chk-map tweaks made a huge difference, together with his faster-commit stuff)
[02:37] <igc> fullermd: for *really* huge imports, there's still plenty of tuning to do I think
[02:38] <igc> fullermd: but probably in fast-import itself, more than the core
[02:38] <igc> fullermd: and I'm unlikely to get to tuning fast-import till after 2.0 reaches RC
[02:38] <fullermd> Yeah.  It'd be pretty huge.  Say around 200k revisions of 200k files.
[02:39] <fullermd> (well, files and dirs)
[02:42] <lifeless> fullermd: doit
[02:43] <lifeless> fullermd: generate a stream and save to disk ; then you can import incrementally or some such
[02:44] <fullermd> Yeah, the first step would be seeing if I have enough disk space to hold the fast-import stream...
[02:44] <fullermd> Certainly no time for it this weekend though; it's Field Day.
[02:45] <fullermd> (and the following few days will be "desperately catch up on sleep", as usual  ;)
[02:45] <lifeless> whats a field day?
[02:46] <fullermd> http://www.arrl.org/contests/announcements/fd/
[02:47] <thumper> lifeless: does the nightly ppa contain the autopack fix yet?
[02:47] <fullermd> (For some of us, hanging around an IRC channel about a version control tool just ain't nerdy enough, see...)
[02:49] <lifeless> thumper: I don't know
[02:50] <thumper> ok
[02:50] <thumper> lifeless: a pack of an already mostly packed 2a repo is taking quite a while
[02:50] <thumper> is that expected
[02:50] <thumper> ?
[02:50] <thumper> like 10 minutes
[02:52] <lifeless> thumper: do you have the C extensions?
[02:53] <thumper> lifeless: it is from the PPA so I think so
[02:53] <lifeless> thumper: and 'pack' has to recompress all history, so its a slow command to run (which is why you shouldn't ever run it unless you have specific reasons to do so)
[03:02] <lifeless> thumper: so why were you packing?
[03:03] <thumper> testing mainly, making my repo smaller, considering how to handle this on a large scale for LP
[03:06] <lifeless> thumper: bzr will pack as needed
[03:06] <lifeless> manual packing is generally a bad idea
[03:12] <Peng_> mwhudson or beuno: ping
[03:21] <jfroy_> jelmer: I just tried to diff two local branches which are both branches of remote svn branches
[03:22] <jfroy_> And bzr died with a missing revision / no such revision error
[03:22] <jfroy_> Is there any way to figure out, perhaps, where that revision is?
[03:22] <jfroy_> if anywhere
[03:22] <jfroy_> this is kind of an open question too, I suppose
[03:23] <jfroy_> wondering if there's a way to search a repository or a branch for a specific revision ID
[03:24] <lifeless> log -r revid:REVID
[03:24] <jam> igc: did you change fast-import to use _add_text instead of add_lines at least?
[03:27] <jfroy_> lifeless: ok I think I am screwed :/
[03:28] <jfroy_> well maybe
[03:28] <jfroy_> it's odd
[03:28] <lifeless> or cat-revision
[03:28] <jfroy_> that revision shows up in a branch in another repository
[03:28] <jfroy_> but does not show up in the same branch in another reposityr
[03:29] <jfroy_> *repository
[03:29] <jfroy_> it's clearly a bzr-svn bug
[03:29] <jfroy_> :(
[03:30] <jfroy_> actually, it looks like that revision was in a local branch I did not push to subversion
[03:30] <jfroy_> and have since deleted in the local repository
[03:41] <Peng_> mwhudson & beuno: unping. :)
[03:42] <mwhudson> Peng_: not-hi
[03:44] <Peng_> mwhudson: Heh, nice timing.
[03:45] <igc> jam: not yet - my figures are still with code calling add_lines()
[03:47] <lifeless> jam: hi
[03:47] <lifeless> jam: did you get anywhere with the stacking bug overnight?
[03:48] <jam> lifeless: I did not, other than to not be able to reproduce it locally, but to have the lp branch fail :(
[03:49] <lifeless> jam: lftp seems to be working again with lpp
[03:49] <Peng_> mwhudson: FWIW, I unpinged you because I decided to send a merge request.
[03:49] <lifeless> lp's sftp server, so you can just mirror down the branch
[03:49] <lifeless> you don't need all of lp
[03:50] <mwhudson> Peng_: oh ok
[03:54] <mwhudson> Peng_: ah, cool in principle at least, haven't read the diff yet :)
[03:54] <Peng_> mwhudson: The diff is the part I'm worried about. :P
[03:59] <jelmer_> jfroy_: hi
[03:59] <jelmer_> jfroy_: there's been another report of that as well
[03:59] <jelmer_> jfroy_: I suspect there's a regression since one of the 0.6 releases
[03:59] <jfroy_> is there anything at al to be done to salvage that revision?
[04:00] <jfroy_> I suspect push_merged_revision will help
[04:00] <jfroy_> since it will push merged revisions, even those of otherwise purely local branches I would not otherwise push myself
[04:00] <jfroy_> (which I do a lot, scratch branch, private feature branch, merge branches)
[04:01] <jelmer_> jfroy_: until we've figured out what the bug is about, no idea if push merged revisions will help
[04:03] <jfroy_> I think it will
[04:03] <jfroy_> the branch nick on that missing revision if from a branch that was purely local
[04:03] <jfroy_> I suspect that specific revision never got pushed to svn
[04:03] <jfroy_> so other people, starting from scratch, will have that revision as a ghost
[04:04] <jfroy_> push merged revision should avoid that situation
[04:04] <jfroy_> (purely local and since then deleted)
[04:06] <jelmer_> if you can confirm that is the case, please let me know
[04:06] <jelmer_> are you using "bzr branch" or "bzr svn-import" to fetch?
[04:08] <jfroy_> branch
[04:08] <RenatoSilva> Is there any documented problems with Novell filesystems?
[04:08] <lifeless> no
[04:08] <jelmer_> jfroy_: I need to get some sleep, again, if you find more info please let me know
[04:09] <jfroy_> will do
[04:09] <jelmer_> jfroy_: I hope to put some time into bzr-svn again at the end of the week
[04:09] <jfroy_> np
[04:09] <jfroy_> it's not a show stopper
[04:12] <RenatoSilva> I get an error about .bzr/branch/lock/[...].tmp/lock, something like that. I think it may be related to big dir names or so. Stupid Novell anyway.
[04:15] <mtaylor> lifeless:
[04:15] <mtaylor> >>> import cpuinfo
[04:15] <mtaylor> >>> cpuinfo.cpuinfo_processor_count(True)
[04:15] <mtaylor> 2
[04:25] <lifeless> mtaylor: cpuinfo.processor_count(True) would be nicer
[04:25] <lifeless> mtaylor: and for nonstrict mode (which scripts will want,
[04:25] <lifeless> cpuinfo.processor_count()
[04:25] <mtaylor> lifeless: indeed
[04:26] <lifeless> if you can :)
[04:26] <mtaylor> lifeless: totally
[04:26] <lifeless> mtaylor: don't you need perl first ?
[04:26] <mtaylor> lifeless: ew
[04:26] <lifeless> mtaylor: to be able to use this, I mean?
[04:26] <lifeless> isn't your test thingy that checks cpu counts perl?
[04:27] <mtaylor> lifeless: so - do you have any philosophical or other arguments about various ways to build python extension modules in the context of a larger autotools-run project
[04:27] <mtaylor> lifeless: yeah. I'll add perl in just a sec
[04:27] <lifeless> mtaylor: personally, I hate setup.py being mixed in with autotools
[04:27] <thumper> spiv: ping
[04:27] <lifeless> no point taking one half assed build system and mixing *another* half assed one in with it
[04:28] <spiv> thumper: pong
[04:28] <lifeless> mtaylor: but, working >> purity
[04:28] <thumper> spiv: I have a local lightweight checkout of a 2a branch
[04:28] <mtaylor> lifeless: k. I go back and forth on that... because I hate mixing the two - but I also hate telling automake all about python :)
[04:28] <mtaylor> lifeless: working bitshift purity?
[04:28] <thumper> spiv: bzr info -v tells me it is Branch format 7
[04:28]  * mtaylor is confused
[04:28] <lifeless> mtaylor: working is more important than purity
[04:29] <thumper> spiv: pushing to LP says: Source branch format does not support stacking, using format:
[04:29] <thumper>   Branch format 7
[04:29] <mtaylor> lifeless: yes yes. trolling
[04:29] <thumper> spiv: what can I do to help diagnose
[04:29] <spiv> thumper: known bug, lemme get you the number
[04:29] <spiv> thumper: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/388908
[04:29] <lifeless> thumper: its filed as a bug already
[04:30] <thumper> ok, thanks
[04:30] <abentley> jam: branch push is complete.
[04:30] <thumper> spiv: I was wondering if it had something to do with the format 6 remote branch format problems
[04:31] <lifeless> thumper: what format 6 remote branch problems?
[04:31] <spiv> thumper: no
[04:35]  * igc lunch (and afk for a few hours)
[04:50] <mtaylor> lifeless: it would be great if ruby and perl had something like AM_PATH_PYTHON...
[04:57] <lifeless> wouldn't it just
[05:00] <jfroy_> hey, this may be a stupid question, but is there a difference between bzr shelve and looms?
[05:03] <lifeless> huge
[05:04] <Peng_> mwhudson: loggerhead/main.py should lose the exec bit, right?
[05:05] <mwhudson> Peng_: i thought i did that, so yes
[05:06] <Peng_> mwhudson: Mind if I do it?
[05:06] <Peng_> mwhudson: Err, yeah, you did do it. I misread the diff. Sorry!
[05:06] <mwhudson> Peng_: i just did
[05:07] <mwhudson> gar, didn't mean to commit that :(
[05:07]  * mwhudson uncommits
[05:07] <Peng_> Oh yay, one of my 2a branches just committed suicide.
[05:09] <Peng_> Oh, it was just bzr-search.
[05:10] <Peng_> ...Which doesn't really make a difference, because I usually bug lifeless about these sorts of things anyway.  :) Today I used 'Hello' but it felt kind of silly and verbose.
[05:44] <lifeless> Peng_: thanks for the bug; will check later
[05:46] <Peng_> lifeless: :)
[06:30] <poolie> spiv, around? want a quick call in a bit?
[06:48] <bignose> bzr-loom crashes, no matter what I do (Debian bug #532947).
[06:48] <bignose> how can I un-loomify a branch so I can keep working on it?
[06:49] <poolie> bignose: can you branch individual threads out into separate branches?
[06:49] <bignose> poolie: using what command? whatever I do it crashes with the message as recorded in that bug report.
[06:50] <lifeless> bignose: I think its all fixed upstream
[06:50] <lifeless> bignose: I'm not sure the branch is corrupted; is it possible that you simply have a broken combination of loom + bzr?
[06:51] <bignose> anything's possible.
[06:53] <bignose> so how can I get back to a working state for that branch?
[06:54] <bignose> or, more relevant to today: a branch that has already been working fine with a loom, but is now unreadable as per that bug report?
[06:55] <lifeless> if it *is* a damaged loom, you might be able to get the thread tip ids out using hexdump on .bzr/branch/current-loom, and use the python api to fetch content from the repo
[06:55] <bignose> urk.
[06:55] <wgrant> I'd just try upgrading bzr-loom first, though...
[06:55] <lifeless> if, as I suspect, you just  have an incompatible loom, get your loom version matching your bzr version, and it should be fine
[06:55] <bignose> I'll wait for the Debian package to update, then.
[06:56] <lifeless> jelmer was asking for help on it
[06:56] <bignose> the "Debian Bazaar maintainers" (listed as the maintainer) have yet to give any response to that bug report, though :-(
[06:57] <poolie> igc, could you post your "IDE Integration..." message on the project blog?
[06:57] <bignose> is this related to the discussion on the Bazaar mailing list, about the systemic problem of plug-ins that *need* to be at the same version, but never *say* that in the corresponding OS packages?
[06:58] <lifeless> bignose: loom tries very hard not to be tied to specific versions
[06:58] <lifeless> but there have been a few API skews that affected it recently.
[07:29] <vila> hi all
[07:29] <lifeless> hai
[07:37] <igc> hi vila
[07:46] <vila> hi Ian !
[09:23] <Peng_> Does bug #390563 waste disk space in non-stacked branches or just bandwidth?
[09:23] <Peng_> ...S'pose I could check it myself.
[09:23] <vila> Peng: and tell us if you can reproduce it and how
[09:24] <Peng_> Oh, right, I forgot that that bug only affects certain branches.
[09:28] <Peng_> effects? eh
[09:28] <fullermd> Affects.
[09:28] <fullermd> Well, the bug may effect certain branches too, but that would be a really weird bug   :p
[09:29] <Peng_> Someday, I should learn the difference between those two words.
[09:29] <Peng_> Then I should verify "then" and "than". :P
[09:30] <fullermd> Generally, affect is a verb and effect is a noun.
[09:30] <Peng_> (OK, I just said that one for the punny thing.)
[09:30]  * Peng_ is obviously a linguistic master. :P
[09:31] <fullermd> Oh, you can sort them out.  Their knot that hard.
[09:34] <mwhudson> fullermd: you're a bad man
[09:36] <Peng_> mwhudson: Shouldn't that be "your a bad man"?
[09:37] <fullermd> Hey, the proof is in the pudding, just take a different tact.
[09:54] <Lo-lan-do> Hi all
[09:54] <Lo-lan-do> What's the status of the HistoryHorizon feature currently?
[09:55] <Lo-lan-do> (The use case I'm looking for is the "Old huge project" mentioned on http://bazaar-vcs.org/HistoryHorizon)
[09:56] <Lo-lan-do> Is it fulfilled by stacked branches?
[09:59] <Peng_> Lo-lan-do: They're not the same thing, but stacked branches let you store the repository on the server, similar to a lightweight checkout, only you've got a real branch.
[10:07] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: we have decent performance and excellent compression even for huge old projects, in the 2a format.
[10:17] <Peng_> Users will just move the goalposts by making even huger projects. :P
[10:18] <Lo-lan-do> lifeless: Huge as in?
[10:18] <Lo-lan-do> I'm talking about a 16G CVS repo here.
[10:19] <Peng_> lifeless: Do you sleep?
[10:19] <Lo-lan-do> We need to do some cleanup in there, and it'll be smaller with bzr, but still, if the main repo could be limited in history that would certainly help.
[10:21] <Lo-lan-do> Could the main repo be stacked on a historical one, thus making day-to-day operations fast while keeping history?
[10:22] <Peng_> Lo-lan-do: What do you mean? Like, have a stacked branch pointing to another one on the same machine?
[10:22] <Lo-lan-do> I'm very glad to hear about 2a, too.  Do you think it'll be stable before the end of the year?
[10:23] <Lo-lan-do> Peng_: Yes.  So daily commits only add to the smaller "current" repo.
[10:23] <Lo-lan-do> But maybe 2a entirely removes the benefits of such an approach, in which case I'll happily recommend that.
[10:24] <asabil> hi all
[10:24] <asabil> is there a way to setup a configuration (bugtracker settings) that will be propagated during a bzr branch to all users ?
[10:26] <Peng_> Lo-lan-do: Having a larger repo isn't a problem. Stacking that would be pointless.
[10:27] <lifeless> Peng_: theory has that I do
[10:27] <Lo-lan-do> Having to replicate a large repo with file transfers could cause problems.
[10:27] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: that could be massively smaller - perhaps even 1GB total, in 2a
[10:27] <Peng_> Lo-lan-do: Actually...a smaller repo would probably save a few ms here and there, but stacking would also cost a few ms here and there. :D
[10:27] <Peng_> Lo-lan-do: If the users do "bzr branch --stacked", they won't have to replace the entire thing.
[10:27] <Lo-lan-do> I fear that smart repo formats wouldn't be very good at rsyncing (but maybe I'm completely wrong)
[10:27] <lifeless> Peng_: but its only EOD, not time-to-sleep now
[10:27] <Peng_> Err, replicate*
[10:28] <Peng_> lifeless: Ah.
[10:28] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: all our formats since pack-0.92 rsync very well
[10:28] <Peng_> lifeless: Except when they get packed...
[10:28] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: old data is rarely moved on disk, so it rarely shows up
[10:28] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: as long as noone runs 'bzr pack', which they shouldn't.
[10:28] <Lo-lan-do> Good to know.
[10:29] <Lo-lan-do> I guess bzr pack could be run monthly or so, if it's useful at all.
[10:29] <lifeless> I wouldn't even do that
[10:29] <lifeless> bzr incrementally packs as commits and pushes occur.
[10:29] <Lo-lan-do> More and more excellent.
[10:30] <lifeless> every power of 10 commits it does a full pack automatically
[10:30] <lifeless> so if you have 1M commits today, you'd need another 9 million to need another full pack ;)
[10:31] <Peng_> Running "bzr pack" occasionally *would* buy you a teensy bit of performance, but it's not enough to matter. Autopacking keeps things from getting out of hand.
[10:32] <lifeless> Peng_: actually, full packing when its not needed, with pack ordering, can decrease performance :)
[10:32] <lifeless> Peng_: (for a central repo thats only push/pulled with)
[10:32] <Peng_> lifeless: Oh? Why? I don't get it.
[10:32] <Peng_> Also, Firefox crashed. Arrgh.
[10:32] <Lo-lan-do> How do the new repo formats cope with thousands of branches?
[10:32] <lifeless> Peng_: by creating a single large btree that has to be read rather than a smaller one with the most recent data and a larger one that isn't read at all
[10:33] <Peng_> lifeless: Ahh.
[10:33] <lifeless> you'd need fairly extreme repos for this to show up
[10:33] <lifeless> as we get a 200:1 fanout in our indices today
[10:34] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: should be fine; there isn't a single file listing all the branches or anything, so its much of a muchness
[10:34] <Lo-lan-do> Good.
[10:35] <Lo-lan-do> Last two questions: timeframe for format 2a being officially stable?  And possibility for repo-side hooks?
[10:35] <Peng_> Repositories don't really know about branches. They're just big bags of revisions.
[10:35] <Lo-lan-do> (The hooks can be done without, they use incron for now)
[10:36] <Lo-lan-do> (they=my current client)
[10:36] <Peng_> Well, I guess it could matter if you had a complicated history and bzr was bad at choosing compression parents, but it's not.
[10:36] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: 2a is supported now; however you need https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/1.16/+bug/365615 - we're still polishing the code around the format.
[10:37] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: we'll be doing a 1.16.1 with that hotfix and possibly a couple of others (to do with stacking on 2a formats)
[10:37] <Lo-lan-do> I'm not in much of a hurry, they'll need time to think about it anyway.
[10:38] <Lo-lan-do> My current job is to find quickfixes to make the CVS repo a bit more usable than it currently is.
[10:38] <Lo-lan-do> ...and to provide recommendations for the longer term.
[10:38] <Lo-lan-do> I'm pretty sure bzr will be in that part :-)
[10:39] <lifeless> awesome
[10:40] <Peng_> Stupid question: how large is MySQL's repo?
[10:40] <Lo-lan-do> A bzr branch uses 600 MB (with working-tree)
[10:40] <mwhudson> Peng_: ~600 megs or so
[10:41] <Lo-lan-do> The .bzr is 467MB here
[10:41] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: of mysql?
[10:41] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: it shrinks by about 2/3rds going to 2a
[10:41] <Lo-lan-do> (Branched from lp:mysql-server sometime this week)
[10:42] <Lo-lan-do> format: unnamed, bzr 1.11
[10:42] <lifeless> info -v will show you the actual repo format
[10:42] <Peng_> In 1.11, it'll probably also spend a long time churning through the history, but you can Ctrl+C it.
[10:42] <Lo-lan-do> packs 6
[10:43] <Lo-lan-do> This 2/3 number is awesomely impressive.
[10:48] <Lo-lan-do> Sorry, crashed.  You were saying?
[10:48] <lifeless> nothing ;)
[10:48] <lifeless> 19:42 < Lo-lan-do> packs 6
[10:48] <lifeless> 19:43 < Lo-lan-do> This 2/3 number is awesomely impressive.
[10:48] <lifeless> 19:46 -!- Lo-lan-do<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
[10:48] <lifeless> 19:48 -!- Lo-lan-do<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #bzr
[10:48] <Lo-lan-do> Cool.
[10:49] <Lo-lan-do> Anyway, will you be available for a beer at Debconf? :-)
[10:49] <Lo-lan-do> I think I owe a couple to jelmer too.
[10:52] <lifeless> I won't be at debconf
[10:52] <lifeless> sorry :(
[10:52] <Kinnison> You won't? Boo hiss :-(
[10:52] <Lo-lan-do> RMLL in Nantes maybe?
[10:53] <lifeless> Kinnison: where is it this year ?
[10:53] <Lo-lan-do> Western Spain
[10:53] <Kinnison> Cacéres, Spain
[10:53] <lifeless> yah. Wrong side of the world
[10:53] <Kinnison> About four hours west of Madrid
[10:53] <lifeless> when things line up, its awesome to get to such things
[10:53] <lifeless> but as it stands, its awfully hard to get there, and I've used all my conference leave this year already.
[10:54] <Kinnison> fair enough
[10:54] <Lo-lan-do> My plan is to develop the bzr plugin for fusionforge during debcamp/debconf
[10:54] <Kinnison> Lo-lan-do: coo. sounds amusing.
[10:55] <Lo-lan-do> (And git, and hg, and whatever VCS out there if there's a guru around to tell me what needs to be done for his preferred one)
[10:55] <Lo-lan-do> I'll probably implement a cpold plugin too, if only as a proof of concept after my refactoring.
[10:55] <Kinnison> lifeless: any plans for a UDS in the UK any time soon?
[10:56] <Peng_> cpold?
[10:56] <lifeless> next is US I think; beyond that no idea
[10:56] <Lo-lan-do> Peng: The oldest VCS of them all.
[10:56] <Lo-lan-do> Peng: "cp foo.c foo.c.old"
[10:57] <Peng_> Lo-lan-do: Oh. I use that one a lot!
[10:57] <Lo-lan-do> There you are :-)
[10:58] <Lo-lan-do> I'm wondering if I'll have the nerve to actually upload a gforge-plugin-scmcpold to Debian :-)
[10:58] <Lo-lan-do> Anyway, food calls.  Thanks for your answers!
[10:59] <Peng_> Lo-lan-do: See you later! :)
[10:59] <Peng_> Hmm, food. Good idea.
[12:01] <awilkins_> Is bzr 2 getting copy of files in inventories?
[12:02] <gioele> hello
[12:02] <lifeless> awilkins: no
[12:03] <awilkins> I suppose it would be yet another awkward format hump to drive over
[12:03] <awilkins> It's nice to see that not-rich-root is deprecated for 2a
[12:06] <gioele> do stacked branches require the master branch to support the staking in some way? Or this feature can be used with any published branch, regardless of its format?
[12:20] <lifeless> the formats must match
[12:20] <lifeless> and bzr won't honour default-stacking requests with very old branches because that would potentially leave the trunk unable to merge from feature branches
[12:23] <gioele> lifeless: anyway, is it possible to use stacking with lp:bzr?
[12:24] <lifeless> yes, and bzr should do that by default
[12:25] <gioele> lifeless: that = stacking? if I do a bzr clone lp:bzr I end up with a stacked branch?
[12:25] <lifeless> no
[12:25] <lifeless> and doing that isn't very useful or sensible anyway
[12:25] <lifeless> (stacking your local copy on the network version
[12:25] <lifeless> )
[12:26] <lifeless> if you do a bzr push lp:~gioele/bzr/foo, it will stack on lp;bzr automatically
[12:27] <gioele> lifeless: but then the remote branch is stacked, not the branch on my PC, if I understood that correctly
[12:31] <lifeless> right, but its not useful to stack branches on your pc
[12:31] <lifeless> a stacked branch doesn't have enough data in it to even create a working tree
[12:32] <gioele> I see
[12:35] <gioele> thank you for the explaination
[13:39] <ddaa> Hello.
[13:40] <ddaa> I have a collaborator, who is using Windows to write to some files in a linux-based bzr tree over the network (presumably SMB)
[13:40] <ddaa> This appears to cause the executable bit to turn on on every file he edits from the network. Which is kind of annoying to me.
[13:41] <ddaa> Is there a way to edit files in a linux bzr tree from windows over SMB that will not cause those files to be recorded as executable when committing from linux.
[13:42] <ddaa> Note that I do not really care about whether the becomes executable on the linux filesystem. I just do not want bzr to record a permission change.
[13:48] <matkor> Hi ! what is easiest way to apply changes (uncommited) from given branch to current one ?
[13:49] <Lo-lan-do> bzr merge --uncommitted $given
[13:49] <ddaa> bialix: Can I make my collaborator use the bzr-x-bit plugin on linux to solve this problem?
[13:49] <bialix> ddaa: no
[13:49] <matkor> Lo-lan-do: Looks great, thank you very much !
[13:50] <Lo-lan-do> matkor: Then you'll probably do "cd $given ; bzr revert" or so
[13:50] <bialix> x-bit plugin does reverse thing
[13:50] <Lo-lan-do> (Be sure to only do that afterwards)
[13:50] <ddaa> bialix: doh, any idea?
[13:51] <bialix> SMB settings maybe? I'm not Linux expert
[13:51] <ddaa> I know, but you're the expert of all things windowish around.
[13:51] <bialix> IIUC this is always problem: try to open USB flash disk on Linux and all files have x-bit set
[13:52] <bialix> ddaa: IIUC your situation: your collaborator working directly with files over the network?
[13:52] <bialix> so why he does not have separate tree on his local disk?
[13:52] <bialix> e.g. lightweight checkout
[13:52] <ddaa> Yup. As I said, I do not care much what the filesystem says, I just do not want this nonsense to contaminate my carefuly tended bzr branch.
[13:52] <bialix> lightweight checkout will help you
[13:53] <ddaa> bialix: out of convenience, he's editing, over SMB, files that are used by a live web server on linux.
[13:53]  * bialix out of ideas
[13:54] <bialix> I'm usually working via ssh in those cases
[13:54] <ddaa> I do not want to worry about running the web server on windows, but I would like him to be able to retain the convenience of editing files on his big-screen windows system while he's testing IE compatibility.
[13:54]  * ddaa contemplates how all evil in computing those days can be ultimately traced to Internet Explorer.
[13:55] <bialix> and Bill G. of course!
[13:56] <ddaa> I do not like to take things personally. It's fine to hate pieces of technologies, but not people.
[13:56] <matkor> Lo-lan-do: Sure, I will even commit first on current :)
[13:56] <bialix> as you wish, I've tried to make joke
[13:57] <ddaa> bialix: sorry :) I'm just annoyed about how it became fashionable to hate B. Gates and Microsoft over the past few years.
[13:57] <ddaa> I mean, they actually invented a few good things.
[13:57] <ddaa> Like the scroll wheel.
[13:58] <ddaa> Thinking of it... Microsoft is actually pretty good at making mice, keyboards and joysticks...
[13:58] <LeoNerd> MS mice are quite nice, yeah..
[13:58] <LeoNerd> Probably because Logitec make them?
[13:59] <garyvdm> When Bug 1 gets fixed people will be replace those with Mark S. and Canonical :-P
[13:59] <ddaa> LeoNerd: that might have something to do with it :)
[13:59]  * garyvdm ducks and runs
[13:59] <ddaa> garyvdm: a few people already have.
[13:59] <garyvdm> Is ubottu asleep/
[13:59] <garyvdm> bug 00001
[14:00] <ddaa> Not ubottu, but most of the time this page times out.
[14:00] <ddaa> something to do with insanely large amount of comments, dups, subscribers and so on and so forth.
[14:00] <fbond> Hi.  In the old bzr shelve, I could `bzr shelf show FOO`, I think, to see a diff representing that particular change on the shelf.  Can I do that with the new shelve/unshelve commands?
[14:01] <fbond> `bzr unshelve --dry-run` shows me a stat-like representation of the change, but not a diff.
[14:01] <garyvdm> bug 391471
[14:01] <garyvdm> bug #391471
[14:02] <garyvdm> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
[14:02] <fbond> garyvdm: That bug has a lot of comments.
[14:02] <garyvdm> lol
[14:03] <garyvdm> oops - I've now cause to to try 3 times...
[14:03] <garyvdm> *caused it
[14:11] <ddaa> Okay it turns out there should be two ways of fixing it.
[14:11] <ddaa> 1. setting the "create mask" in smb.conf to something like "644", so files are not create executable
[14:12] <ddaa> 2. configuring the windows-side editor to save files in place (instead of doing the copy-rename thing).
[15:07] <asabil> jelmer: ping ?
[15:18] <jelmer> asabil: pong
[15:18] <asabil> jelmer: did you receive my filter-branch merge request for bzr-rebase ?
[15:32] <jelmer> asabil: no, I didn't see anything
[15:32] <asabil> jelmer: I did send it a while ago, maybe I should resend it ?
[15:33] <jelmer> asabil: please do
[15:33] <Lo-lan-do> Are pack files often modified?
[15:34] <Lo-lan-do> Or are they only generated once by a commit or a repack and not changed afterwards?
[15:34] <Lo-lan-do> I'm pondering about risks of filesystem fragmentation.
[15:42] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: pack files are not modified themselves, but new pack files will be created regularly
[15:42] <jelmer> (e.g. by commit, repack, push/pull etc)
[15:50] <Lo-lan-do> Okay, so little risk for fragmentation increasing over time.  Good, good.
[15:53] <mxpxpod> jelmer: ping?
[15:56] <jelmer> mxpxpod: pong
[16:00] <mxpxpod> jelmer: I'm trying to mirror dojotoolkit.org's svn repository using bzr-svn's svn-import, but we have a strange branching and tagging method
[16:01] <mxpxpod> basically, each project (dojo, dijit, dojox) has it's own sub-repository (src/dojox/{branches,tags,trunk})
[16:01] <mxpxpod> but then when we release, we create a structure in src/branches/{release_version} that copies current trunk of each project into that directory
[16:01] <mxpxpod> same with tagging with the tags directory
[16:03] <mxpxpod> jelmer: if you want to take a look, it's at http://svn.dojotoolkit.org/src
[16:04] <abentley> jam: In case you missed it earlier, the push to /home/abentley/branches is complete
[16:05] <mxpxpod> jelmer: src/trunk is our old code-base
[16:07] <mxpxpod> jelmer: the problem is that when I did the svn-import, I specified branches=branches/*;*/branches/*;*/trunk and tags=tags/*;*/tags/*, but no tags showed up
[16:07] <mxpxpod> jelmer: am I going to have to tag things manually?
[16:11] <jelmer> mxpxpod: sorry, phone, back in a few minutes
[16:16] <asabil> jelmer: just sent it, you should receive it on your samba mailbox
[16:18] <jam> abentley: thanks
[16:18] <jam> robert says you can lftp the broken branch
[16:18] <jam> which works well, too
[16:21] <abentley> jam: was the lftp message for me?
[16:22] <jam> yes
[16:22] <jam> not that *you* need to
[16:22] <jam> just that it is another branch I can use
[16:23] <abentley> jam: I don't understand.  by "broken branch", you mean db-devel?
[16:23] <jam> cinnamon-and-spice, IIRC
[16:23] <jam> abentley: sorry, crimson-and-clover
[16:24] <abentley> jam: Oh, you'd like a copy of lp:~sinzui/launchpad/crimson-and-clover ?
[16:32] <abentley> jam: I've mirrored crimson-and-clover for you at /home/abentley/crimson-and-clover
[16:34] <mxpxpod> is there a way to register a directory service and have it create a shared repo for multiple branches for certain urls?
[16:37] <asabil> jelmer: did you get it this time ?
[16:37] <jelmer> asabil: yep, thanks
[16:38] <asabil> cool
[16:41] <jelmer> mxpxpod: re
[16:42] <jelmer> mxpxpod: that should've worked
[16:42] <jelmer> mxpxpod: did svn-import say anything about the layout being used?
[16:43] <mxpxpod> jelmer: Using repository layout: WildcardLayout(['branches/*', '*/branches/*', '*/trunk'],['tags/*', '*/tags/*'])
[16:43]  * awilkins thinks bzr-svn should have a layout option for "total freakin' mess"
[16:43] <mxpxpod> awilkins: :)
[16:44] <mxpxpod> jelmer: I think the problem is that we have src/tags/release-1.3.1/dojo
[16:44] <kirkland> jelmer: hi there
[16:44] <mxpxpod> and dojo resides in src/dojo/{trunk,branches}
[16:44] <kirkland> jelmer: i'm still getting a vcs import update failure for qemu's git
[16:44] <kirkland> jelmer: i was under the impression that LP's rollout this morning had your latest fixes?
[16:45] <kirkland> jelmer: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28287607/qemu-git-log.txt
[16:45] <kirkland> jelmer: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/qemu/git
[16:47] <jelmer> kirkland: I'm not sure what version of bzr-git launchpad is using
[16:48] <kirkland> jelmer: is there any way that I can run this script/process locally, on my hardware
[16:48] <kirkland> jelmer: and push to a bzr branch in LP?
[16:49] <kirkland> jelmer: i'm happy to cut vcs-imports out of the loop, until they get that fixed
[16:49] <kirkland> jelmer: i need a bzr/git mirror up ASAP
[16:50] <jelmer> kirkland: yeah, just install bzr-git and run something like this from a cronjob:
[16:51] <kirkland> jelmer: what's bzr-git?  a bzr pluggin?
[16:51] <Jc2k> yes
[16:51] <jelmer> kirkland: "bzr svn-import git://git.savannah.nongnu.org/qemu.git qemu; bzr push -d qemu lp:~kirkland/qemu/git-import"
[16:52] <jelmer> sorry, git-import rather than svn-import obviously
[16:52] <kirkland> jelmer: s/svn-import/git-import/
[16:52] <kirkland> k
[16:52] <kirkland> jelmer: thanks
[16:53] <jelmer> kirkland: alternatively if you just need the main branch you can just use "bzr branch" / "bzr pull" with git URLs
[16:54] <mxpxpod> jelmer: I'm figuring for this strange layout that we have that I'll have to do some sort of custom import for this repo
[16:54] <kirkland> jelmer: and getting git-import ....
[16:55] <kirkland> jelmer: cd .bazaar/plugins; bzr branch lp:bzr-git ?
[16:55] <jelmer> kirkland: yep
[16:55] <jelmer> kirkland: you'll also need dulwich, which is a dependency of bzr-git
[16:55] <jelmer> mxpxpod: there don't seem to be any actual tags for dojo that bzr-svn could import
[16:56] <jelmer> mxpxpod: http://svn.dojotoolkit.org/src/dojo/tags/ is empty
[16:56] <kirkland> Unable to load plugin 'git'. It requested API version (1, 17, 0) of module <module 'bzrlib' from '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/bzrlib/__init__.pyc'> but the minimum exported version is (1, 13, 0), and the maximum is (1, 13, 1)
[16:56] <mxpxpod> jelmer: yeah, we tag dojo, dijit, dojox, and util at src/tags/{release_name}/{project_name}
[16:57] <jelmer> kirkland: the version of bzr you have locally is too old, you need at least 1.14 for bzr-git
[16:59] <kirkland> jelmer: best way of getting a newer bzr onto a jaunty machine?  a ppa, perhaps?
[16:59] <jelmer> kirkland: yeah, there's a bzr ppa (~bzr on lp)
[16:59] <kirkland> jelmer: cheers, thanks for your help, dude
[16:59] <mxpxpod> kirkland: https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/ppa
[16:59] <jelmer> mxpxpod: so in that case it seems your tags setting is incomplete
[17:00] <mxpxpod> jelmer: right, but how do I tell svn-import that the tag is at tags/release-1.3.1/dojo rather than dojo/tags/release-1.3.1 ?
[17:01] <mxpxpod> and then how do I get it to translate the former to the latter for the conversion?
[17:02] <jelmer> mxpxpod: try tags/*/dojo
[17:02] <mxpxpod> jelmer: what if I'm importing the whole repo at one time?
[17:05] <jelmer> mxpxpod: shouldn't be any different
[17:06] <mxpxpod> jelmer: so, just put tags/*/{project_name} for each project?
[17:06] <jelmer> mxpxpod: yeah, that's how it's intended to work at least
[17:07] <mxpxpod> jelmer: same with branches?
[17:07] <jelmer> mxpxpod: yeah
[17:09] <mxpxpod> jelmer: welp, here goes nothing ;)
[17:55] <marianom> hi guys, can anyone tell me why I'm hitting this error? bzr: ERROR: Reserved revision-id {null:}
[17:55] <marianom> First time I see it
[18:02] <mxpxpod> jelmer: that didn't work :(
[18:05] <mxpxpod> jelmer: I did this: bzr init-repo --1.14-rich-root test; cd test; bzr svn-import http://svn.dojotoolkit.org/src .
[18:20] <kirkland> jelmer: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/203025/
[18:20] <kirkland> jelmer: dulwich is installed
[18:24] <kirkland> never mind
[18:28] <kirkland> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.ImportError: bzr-git: Dulwich is too old; at least 0.3.1 is required
[18:28] <kirkland> i installed dulwich from the ppa
[18:38] <jelmer> kirkland: I don't think there's a current dulwich packaged in the ppa
[18:38] <kirkland> jelmer: okay, thanks.
[18:40] <jh> hi, I'm trying to get to the newest revsion of a branch on launchpad. I had already a local copy of the repository and changed some things (and committed it locally). how can I change to the current remote revision? ignoring all my local changes
[18:41] <dash> you want to remove your local changes?
[18:41] <dash> or merge the remote ones into your local branch
[18:41] <jh> I want to ignore my local changes
[18:42] <dash> bzr pull --overwrite <remote url>
[18:42] <dash> if by 'ignore' you mean 'remove'
[18:42] <jh> y
[18:42] <jh> thx!
[18:44] <ddaa> There's something annoying about shelve storing a pack in the shelf instead of a diff.
[18:44] <dash> yes
[18:44] <ddaa> Previously, I could go into the shelf, and modify the shelved diff.
[18:44] <dash> also the shelve plugin has more features than the builtin
[18:45] <ddaa> In this instance, I want to split a diff hunk.
[18:45] <dash> me too
[18:45]  * ddaa shakes dash's hand
[18:45] <ddaa> dash: so what is it you do you to satisfy you obsessive-compulsive need for clean commits?
[18:45] <dash> (I am trying to split up a very large diff into multiple unrelated ones via loom+shelve)
[18:46] <dash> ddaa: Nothing easy.
[18:46] <ddaa> that kind of sucks
[18:46] <dash> yes
[18:46] <dash> i think i am going to switch back to shelve1
[18:46] <ddaa> you mentioned a different between a plugin and a builtin
[18:47] <dash> yes, the 'shelve' in bzrtools is different
[18:47] <ddaa> I did not realize shelve was now a builtin
[18:47] <dash> so yeah, try 'bzr shelve1'
[18:48] <ddaa> Yay, happiness.
[18:48] <ddaa> bzr shelve1, manual diff editing, bzr unshelve1
[18:49] <ddaa> dash: thanks pal
[18:49] <dash> <3
[20:26] <mwhudson> jelmer_: hello, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/mnemosyne-proj/maemosyne still seems to be failing with bzr 0.4.0, i can't remember if i asked you about this one already :)
[20:26] <mwhudson> bzr-git, obv
[21:37] <poolie> hello
[21:37]  * beuno waves at poolie
[21:37] <poolie> good morning beuno
[21:38] <beuno> how are you poolie?
[21:40] <poolie> good thanks
[21:40] <poolie> woke up a bit too early though
[21:40] <poolie> how are you?
[21:41] <beuno> pretty good
[21:41] <beuno> slow day for me today
[21:42] <poolie> how is 2a dogfooding going for you?
[21:42] <poolie> i realize bug 390563 is a big deal
[21:53] <beuno> poolie, that's really making things chaotic
[21:53] <beuno> but, apart from that, things seem much faster
[21:54] <beuno> I've upgraded about 30 branches at the office to 2a
[21:54] <beuno> and it's gone well
[21:54] <beuno> no problemas at all
[21:54] <beuno> something to note is that at least half the branches didn't go down in size from 1.9
[21:56] <poolie> ok, interestig
[21:56] <poolie> how about if you repack them?
[21:56] <beuno> I do, all of them
[21:56] <beuno> initially the branches are larger
[21:56] <beuno> and then they go down to about the same size after a pack
[21:57] <beuno> they are branches with heavy binary usage
[22:32] <lifeless> oh wow
[22:32] <lifeless> did all codeimports die overnight?
[22:32] <lifeless> mwhudson: ^
[22:32] <mwhudson> lifeless: no
[22:32] <thumper> lifeless: no, we've just now automatically failing imports that have failed lots
[22:33] <mwhudson> oh yes, that's a lot of spam in my codeimport folder...
[22:35] <lifeless> vila: still around?
[22:38] <poolie> hello mwhudson, lifeless
[22:38] <mwhudson> hi poolie
[22:49] <lifeless> mwhudson: you're going to cherrypick bug 365615 today, yes?
[22:50] <mwhudson> yeah, we should
[22:50] <mwhudson> lifeless: it won't hit prod until uk versions of 'today' of course
[22:51] <mwhudson> lifeless: is there any sense in waiting for a fix to the other absentcontentfactory bug to maybe appear?
[22:51] <mwhudson> lifeless: also, is the fix for that bug in the 1.16 branch?
[22:52] <mwhudson> seems no
[22:52] <mwhudson> i guess i should talk to the 1.16 release manager
[22:53] <mwhudson> who should be waking up around about now...
[22:56] <lifeless> mwhudson: its not in the 1.16 branch yet
[22:56] <lifeless> mwhudson: just cherry pick
[22:56] <lifeless> and no, no sense waiting
[22:59] <poolie> lifeless: did you talk to jam today (au time)?
[22:59] <poolie> i was just going to call him and say hello
[23:00] <lifeless> poolie: no; I'd like to to pickup the state on the bug
[23:00] <lifeless> he commented about 7 hours ago on the bug, but hasn't mailed a status note, nor has vila
[23:00] <lifeless> so AFAICT it hasn't advanced any
[23:01] <lifeless> which may just mean that a lot of work hasn't ruled anything out nor proven anything
[23:03] <lifeless> poolie: I'll be on m mobile; just grabbing a hot brekkie
[23:12] <poolie> lifeless: john's sending an update now
[23:17] <FibeRichio> Hi, I wanted to exclude a directory called 'webstats' from the revision, so I did 'bzr ignore ./webstats'. It told me that there already existed a directory in the revision and that I should use the remove command, but after I did 'bzr remove webstats', the entire directory dissappeared from my filesystem?
[23:20] <lifeless> back
[23:20] <lifeless> poolie: thanks
[23:21] <lifeless> FibeRichio: right, it did that because it was versioned
[23:21] <lifeless> FibeRichio: do this:
[23:21] <lifeless> bzr revert webstats
[23:21] <lifeless> bzr remove --keep webstats
[23:21] <FibeRichio> thanks, that looks bettter :)
[23:25] <lifeless> np
[23:28] <rocky> jelmer_: hey, does deleting tags not work with bzr-svn ?
[23:47] <poolie> jam, lifeless,  i filed bug 391851
[23:47] <poolie> jml that's what you mentioned last night
[23:47] <lifeless> oh that reminds me
[23:47] <poolie> i don't think there was a bug for it previously
[23:47] <lifeless> I'll file one on skinny networkin
[23:47] <lifeless> g
[23:47] <poolie> ok, refer back to this one
[23:47] <poolie> i mean put in a see also
[23:48] <lifeless> Actually
[23:48] <lifeless> I think yours really should just be turned into 'skinny on the network please'
[23:48] <lifeless> as the other aspects were all considered and balanced during design.
[23:49] <lifeless> single commit having a full text isn't a drawback, as it makes commit fast; and group size is dynamically tuned based on file size
[23:49] <lifeless> poolie: ok if I repurpose it? or should I close it and file a targeted one for networking?
[23:51] <poolie> either is ok
[23:52] <poolie> i'd like the other one perhaps open at least at low priority
[23:52] <poolie> so it has a handle
[23:53] <lifeless> poolie: I'm not clear what it is meant to be though - I don't see anything in 391851 as a bug or defect, other than networking not being skinny
[23:55] <lifeless> poolie: quick call?


[13:47] <onicrom> hi anyone seen a problem where the commission fails because:
[13:47] <onicrom> W: Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/trusty-security/main/source/Sources  503  Service Unavailable
[14:21] <jpds> onicrom: check the squid logs.


[05:52] <DanChapman> Morning all
[12:11] <pitti> Good morning
[12:17] <balloons> good morning pitti.. it's afternoon though isn't it :-p
[12:18] <DanChapman> Morning pitti and balloons
[12:24] <smartboyhw> balloons, heyas
[12:24] <smartboyhw> DanChapman, hello
[12:24] <DanChapman> smartboyhw: hello :-)
[12:25] <elfy> o/
[12:28] <balloons> morning DanChapman smartboyhw elfy
[12:36] <elfy> hi balloons
[13:17] <smartboyhw> balloons, do we have any Cadence Week this week?
[13:18]  * smartboyhw is too lazy and busy with Physics to look at the Cadence schedule
[14:26] <balloons> smartboyhw, no, no cadence this week
[14:26] <smartboyhw> balloons, phew:P
[14:27] <balloons> smartboyhw, however, we do have global jam this weekend and I'll be putting something out today on that
[14:27] <smartboyhw> balloons, uh hum, see #ubuntu-community-team:P
[14:27] <balloons> the page it ready, and I'd like to promote it amongst the loco teams and others
[14:27] <smartboyhw> balloons, see my message:P
[14:27] <balloons> I couldn
[14:28] <balloons> I couldn't read it but now I see the paste
[14:28] <balloons> awesome Howard!
[14:28] <smartboyhw> balloons, the paste of course:P
[14:28] <smartboyhw> balloons, that's the thing I can do at most
[15:43] <smartboyhw> balloons, \o/ on your blog post