[05:15] <jam> morning all
[07:49] <niemeyer> Morning jam
[07:49] <niemeyer> Morning all
[07:49] <jam> morning niemeyer
[08:09] <mup_> PR operator#236 opened: ops/log.py: Default to DEBUG logging <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/236>
[08:14] <niemeyer> jam: Reviewed, thanks
[08:34] <jam> thanks for the review
[08:34]  * jam goes to make lunch
[08:52] <Chipaca> gooooood morning!
[08:52] <niemeyer> Hey hey
[09:04] <stub> Chipaca: https://code.launchpad.net/~stub/interface-pgsql/+git/operator , which needs a better repo home and updating to namespace standards when the standards exist :)
[09:04] <niemeyer> stub: I hope to have this settled before the week is over
[09:05] <stub> Yup, no hurry from my end
[09:05] <niemeyer> stub: We also need to have some kind of group for reviewing interfaces while we try to develop some joint agreement of which directions we want to go
[09:05] <niemeyer> stub: This sounds like the right time for that
[09:06] <niemeyer> stub: That is, now that we're about to have the basic proposal in place for the extension mechanism and the namespacing
[09:06] <niemeyer> stub: Would be happy to have you on board this effort
[09:09] <stub> ok, let me know if I'm needed when you get that far.
[09:11] <niemeyer> stub: Your presence would certainly be good, given your prior experience in the postgres charm and interfaces.. we also need to do a review of these interfaces to evolve our idea of which way we want to go as recommended patterns
[09:11] <niemeyer> stub: Did you inspire the initial implementation on the sketches that were being discussed here, or completely independently?
[09:12] <stub> (and that intereface needs tests, so probably would fail review right now ;) )
[09:12] <niemeyer> stub: Well, that's another area worth talking about.. we've been evolving the Harness, so it would be interesting to know how suitable it is for working with interfaces as well
[09:13] <stub> niemeyer: Somewhat independently... based on some examples (graphana request for comments I recall)
[09:13] <niemeyer> stub: Cool, let's please try to find a slot that works for everyone over the next few days and get that going
[09:14] <niemeyer> stub: I will have the mechanism and namespace proposal in hand by then
[09:15] <Chipaca> stub: thanks!
[09:53] <Chipaca> graaah
[09:53]  * Chipaca hulk-smashes
[09:53] <Chipaca> why would _simulate_event itself clear the charm state
[09:53] <Chipaca> that should be done by tear-down
[09:53] <Chipaca> stoopid stoopid
[09:54] <niemeyer> Me too, but in a good way.. manual k8s deployment seems to work okay
[09:56] <Chipaca> and of course the test charm doesn't load the state before writing it out
[09:56] <Chipaca> it's all worms all the way down
[09:56] <Chipaca> in fact why is this doing it by hand
[10:51] <Chipaca> … D'OH
[10:51] <jam> Chipaca, can you point me at what you're talking about? _simulate_event is not something I'd generally recommend.
[10:51] <Chipaca> truncate() and truncate(0) are *not* the same thing
[10:51] <Chipaca> jam: hi :)
[10:51] <Chipaca> jam: it's in test_main.py
[10:52] <Chipaca> jam: there's a combination of issues that made it hard to figure out for me
[10:52] <Chipaca> jam: the test_main charm nukes its state every time
[10:52] <Chipaca> ie it does not load state, just sets it to default
[10:52] <Chipaca> not helped by doing things by hand instead of using StoredState
[10:53] <Chipaca> then, _read_and_clear state does truncate() instead of truncate(0)
[10:53] <Chipaca> so i fixed one side of that and then was confused by the other side breaking
[10:53] <jam> Chipaca, in each test? I would expect that, otherwise the tests would be coupled and you couldn't just run 1 test. But _simulate_event doesn't, does it?
[10:54] <jam> Chipaca, oh.
[10:54] <Chipaca> jam: in test_main/src/charm.py, in __init__, it just does _state = {}
[10:54] <Chipaca> so no matter how many times dispatch dispatches an event you'll only get the one event in the state
[10:54] <jam> load and then truncate, but don't actually do anything because you just read a bunch of stuff so truncate() is a noop, right?
[10:55] <Chipaca> nah, that bit is fine (in a twisted kind of way), it truncates it so the _next_ call gets the data ok
[10:55] <Chipaca> i wouldn't write it that way but it works (assuming truncate(0) and not truncate() as it was written)
[10:56] <jam> Chipaca, that's what I mean. Plain truncate() is a no-op
[10:56] <Chipaca> ah, yes
[10:56] <jam> you just read the filefor pickle.load()
[10:57] <Chipaca> jam: i'm not sure we're in sync, so let me replay events for you:  i was trying to write a test that made sure that dispatch + a hook that pointed to the same thing only triggered the event once
[10:57] <Chipaca> jam: i wrote the test, and it passed! but that made no sense, and adding prints to the charm code showed me it was processing the events twice
[10:58] <Chipaca> jam: then i noticed that __init__ was not loading the state, just setting it every time, so that's why it was failing
[10:58] <Chipaca> or rather, failing to fail
[10:59] <Chipaca> jam: so i fixed that
[10:59] <Chipaca> jam: and then other tests started failing!
[10:59] <Chipaca> jam: because truncate() instead of truncate(0)
[10:59] <Chipaca> jam: <the end>
[11:00] <Chipaca> i think it needs refactoring to used StoredState at some point, but for now this seems ok to me
[11:00] <Chipaca> not ideal :) but ok
[11:07] <jam> Chipaca, yeah, so we only ever write the state file, we wb which means we always write from the beginning, and we never read it to include more events...
[11:08] <jam> Chipaca, so, between updating the tests to not overwrite the state file on each call, and using StoredState, which do you think you prefer?
[11:10] <jam> Chipaca, I feel like StoredState would be more the way we want the charm written, and means it would get auto loaded and saved rather than explicitly done by the charm
[11:13] <Chipaca> jam: I think we want to rewrite it to use StoredState because people will pick up on this way of doing things if not
[11:13] <jam> indeed
[11:13] <Chipaca> jam: but I think it needs doing in a separate PR as it'll be a big refactor
[11:13] <jam> looking at it right now
[11:13] <Chipaca> jam: ideally _after_ i land this which already touches test_main :-3
[11:17] <jam> Chipaca, so in setUp we end up calling 'exec_module'. Does that exec the module with __name__ == __main__ ? or is it just effectively 'import the module into a namespace' ?
[11:19] <facubatista> Muy buenos días a todos!
[11:20] <jam> morning facubatista
[11:20] <jam> any chance you could look at #230 today?
[11:21] <mup_> PR #230: Testing harness no events for own data <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/230>
[11:23] <facubatista> hola jam
[11:23] <facubatista> jam, yes!
[11:23] <jam> great
[11:26] <Chipaca> jam: it does not exec the module with __name__ == __main__, no
[11:26] <jam> Chipaca, k. its essentially just 'import' but return the module as an imported thing, rather than into sys
[11:26] <Chipaca> jam: it execs it with __name__ being the "fully-qualified name of the module"
[11:27] <Chipaca> jam: the import has two parts, loading the code object, and executing it
[11:27] <Chipaca> bah, loading also has two parts, finding it first :)
[11:27] <Chipaca> jam: but, yes
[11:27] <Chipaca> it's 'exec' in the exec-the-keyword sense, not in the exec-the-syscall sense
[11:30] <Chipaca> jam: note the module is already 'loaded' before the exec call, in that self.charm_module is already <module 'charm' from '<...>/test_main/src/charm.py'> before you exec it
[11:31] <jam> Chipaca, presumably it doesn't have any types, etc defined, right?
[11:33] <Chipaca> jam: correct, just a name, a source, a loader, etc
[11:33]  * Chipaca looks
[11:33] <Chipaca> ['__cached__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__loader__', '__name__', '__package__', '__spec__']
[11:33] <Chipaca> that's all :)
[11:33] <jam> Chipaca, not critical to my understanding of what is going on. Mostly it is a way to do 'import foo' but not actually pollute your local namespace.
[11:34] <Chipaca> yep
[11:34] <Chipaca> also it doesn't touch sys.modules
[11:34] <Chipaca> not sure why we're not just doing __import__ though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[11:35] <Chipaca> (but i haven't looked in detail; there might be some tweak or subtlety i'm not seeing)
[11:35] <Chipaca> ouch, i must go get lunch otherwise it's all meetings all the time and i'll be eaten alive by feral teenagers
[11:35] <jam> Chipaca, So I have a different test that just does 'import' but means i clean out sys.path afterward. I think this is 'think about that other charm thing'
[11:36] <jam> Chipaca, eat hearty
[11:38] <facubatista> jam, why RelationDataContent is a lazymapping? and not grab all the info at once?
[11:38] <jam> facubatista, so I didn't write it, but it reads all the data when you access one attribute. it doesn't read keys individually
[11:38] <jam> it just doesn't read the data if you only write 1 key
[11:39] <facubatista> jam, do you know why?
[11:39] <facubatista> it's an optimization?
[11:39] <jam> facubatista, yeah, I presume it is just to avoid calling relation-get just because you have a relation, but you don't access any data
[11:40] <jam> and the LazyMapping means that once you *do* read something, you don't pay an overhead for every access, it gets once and caches the content
[11:40] <jam> for the lifetime of a hook, the content you read isn't allowed to change, so it is fine to cache.
[11:40] <jam> in Testing, though, we don't want to destroy the whole model and build it back up between steps
[11:40] <jam> so we _invalidate the parts we know we're changing.
[11:42] <facubatista> jam, _invalidate() does not "discards current cache content", but "prevents further caching"?
[11:42] <jam> facubatista, no, it sets _lazy_data to None, so it will be reloaded on next access
[11:43] <facubatista> so it discards current cache?
[11:43] <jam> correct
[11:43] <facubatista> so, let me recap
[11:43] <jam> LazyMapping has a _data attribute that returns _lazy_data if not None, else load _lazy_data
[11:44] <facubatista> I just do rel_data = relation.data.get(entity) ... at this moment, rel_data is "empty", the real info is not loaded yet, so it's not cached, right?
[11:44] <facubatista> it's _lazy_data is still None
[11:45] <jam> facubatista, if that is all you do, yes. If someone has accessed that object before, the data might already be loaded
[11:45] <jam> which is what why we want to _invalidate so we know the new content will be loaded.
[11:46] <facubatista> ok
[11:46] <facubatista> thanks, I understand now
[11:53] <jam> Chipaca, so... I have a rough cut of replacing the STATE_FILE with StoredState. But it turns out we're doing some "naughty" stuff.
[11:54] <jam> Namely, it saves the type(event) for all the events, which then get pickled down to the state file, and are assumed to be reloaded correctly
[11:54] <jam> and then the test dose: "assertEqual(state.events, [EventType])"
[11:54] <jam> where EventType is "from framework import EventType", and state.events was unpickled from the charm state file.
[11:56] <jam> Why are they doing AllHands in the middle of Vienna Product roadmap ...
[11:57]  * facubatista misses real all hands
[11:57] <jam> :)
[11:58] <jam> Yeah. Though to be fair, All-Engineering is about 200 people, which is almost the size of the largest all-hands
[11:58] <facubatista> jam, yeap, but we don't mix to the rest of the company
[11:58] <facubatista> jam, it's not about size, but (content) diversity
[12:02] <facubatista> jam, I added a couple of small details inline in the #230 review; those are probably so small that we may be done with this today
[12:02] <mup_> PR #230: Testing harness no events for own data <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/230>
[12:03] <jam> facubatista,             # rel_data may have loaded now-stale data, so _invalidate() it. Note that just
[12:03] <jam>             # accessing rel_data for an entity doesn't load it unless you access an attribute.
[12:03] <jam> ?
[12:04] <jam> The point is to note that the act of wanting to invalidate won't itself read the data, but I understand wanting both comments.
[12:06] <facubatista> jam, but we don't care if it read the data, as we're invalidating it! that is confusing
[12:06] <facubatista> it looks like "oh, so let's not call to invalidate, and for sure will not be reading the data"
[12:06] <jam> facubatista, so the concern that G had, was that if we access rel_data, it looks like we read it, just to invalidate it.
[12:07] <jam> so I'm trying to find a way to express "make sure if it was read, we invalidate it, but we don't force a read here"
[12:07] <facubatista> the point of that invalidate call is to clear *possible previously* loaded cache
[12:09] <facubatista> jam, the "Note that just accessing rel_data for an entity doesn't load it unless you access an attribute." is a good piece of information, maybe confuses to be just around the invalidate() call
[12:51] <jam> facubatista, how about:
[12:51] <jam> rel_data may be caching now-stale data, so _invalidate() it.
[12:51] <jam> Note, this won't cause the data to be loaded if it wasn't already.
[12:53] <facubatista> jam, I like it, may you replace "be caching" with "have cached"?
[12:55] <niemeyer> Hey folks, can we have the standup a bit earlier today?  I have an errand that I need to run this afternoon and it would be helpful if I could do it a bit earlier
[13:03] <jam> sure
[13:03] <jam> facubatista, ^^
[13:03] <jam> niemeyer, we can, though I have a meeting just before it. but it is lower priority
[13:04] <facubatista> niemeyer, otp, what about in 10'?
[13:04] <niemeyer> jam: No worries then.. it's not critical on my end either
[13:04] <niemeyer> facubatista: Let's do at the usual time
[13:04] <facubatista> ack
[13:27]  * Chipaca suddenly realises the time
[13:29] <facubatista> Chipaca, you mean, in an einstanian way?
[13:29] <jam> Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana
[13:33] <jam> facubatista, can you check if 230 now matches your expectation?
[13:34] <facubatista> jam, yes
[13:43] <pekkari> Hi, qq, is juju triggering any config-changed after upgrade charm?
[13:48] <Chipaca> pekkari: AFAIK yes, why?
[13:48] <Chipaca> jam: ^
[13:49] <pekkari> thanks Chipaca, just to know, the charm I'm working on was having config rewrites in the upgrade path that I believe are redundant, so if config change comes after, I can just drop that code
[13:51] <Chipaca> pekkari: perhaps relatedly, if the unit is in error state and you force-upgrade the charm, the upgrade-charm isn't triggered but the config-change is (i only know this from notes in our codebase)
[13:52] <pekkari> seems to be a case I wasn't into it yet, as I was just ensuring I can, from a working unit, upgrade the charm, and get to a ocnsistent state, but good to know
[13:52] <jam> pekkari, Chipaca : afaict, on the agent side, it doesn't explicitly say "an upgrade was done, thus I must also do a config changed". However, I think if you do an upgrade, the act of requesting an upgrade might create a new config state, since old version of the charm and new version of the charm may have different fields available.
[13:55] <pekkari> that makes sense, jam, thanks!
[13:56] <jam> pekkari, a quick test with 'juju debug-hooks' says that we do, indeed, trigger a config-changed with upgrade even if you didn't pass '--config' to upgrade-charm.
[13:58] <pekkari> awesome, wiping unneeded code then :)
[14:08] <facubatista> jam, I see that you answered two conversations, but other two are unanswered, and no commit pushed... maybe I'm looking at it wrongly?
[14:40] <Chipaca> jam, niemeyer, if you have a hook and dispatch, and the first one fails, should the second one still run?
[14:46] <facubatista> Chipaca, I'd follow the same reasoning of "if you have two registered callbacks for one event, and the first callback fails, should the second still run?"
[14:47] <Chipaca> facubatista: yeah, and afaict the answer is no
[14:49] <facubatista> Chipaca, I concur
[15:36] <Chipaca> github seems to be having issues
[15:36] <Chipaca> can't comment on a pr right now
[15:36] <Chipaca> i think that's github's way of telling me to take a braek
[15:36]  * Chipaca obeys
[15:46] <facubatista> jajaj
[15:46] <facubatista> Chipaca, that, or they decided to turn it off forever
[16:44] <jam> facubatista, so I tried to push, but I think Chipaca had auto-committed to my branch, so it rejected my push. sorry about that. I didn't see the "rejected" on the push
[16:45] <jam> facubatista, I just confirmed the PR has been updated with my commits. can you look again ?
[16:45] <jam> Chipaca, I agree, whatever fails first stops the second from executing.
[18:12] <Chipaca> of course now there are _three_ comments with the same content
[18:12] <Chipaca> ah well
[18:12] <Chipaca> at least i'm consistent :-D
[18:14] <Chipaca> and travis <-> github is now discombobulated
[18:14] <Chipaca> it's fun all the way down
[18:14] <Chipaca> i shoulda just carried on running :-)
[18:15]  * Chipaca is sure he used to know english
[18:17] <facubatista> "discombobulated"
[18:23] <Chipaca> facubatista: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discombobulated
[18:24] <facubatista> nice
[21:14]  * facubatista eods
[21:19] <Chipaca> facubatista: 👋 have a good one
[21:22] <facubatista> Chipaca, good night!
[21:23]  * facubatista really goes
[23:18]  * Chipaca EODs


[03:12] <pdxwebdev> I keep running out of space because the image is only 2GB. Does anyone know how to increase the image size so I can do 'apt-get build-dep ubuntu-system-settings'?  It fails every time.
[07:47] <anpok> hm usb host mode on nexus10 just works
[07:47] <anpok> now terminal is just a bit too laggy
[16:23] <ahoneybun> mhall119: is this the only channel or is there a channel for porting talk
[16:23] <ahoneybun> ?
[16:29] <ahoneybun> does anyone have the m7vzw (verizon htc one m7?
[16:49] <diogo_> hi
[16:49] <diogo_> just a little question, does the nexus 4 consume much energy??
[16:50] <diogo_> beucase my nexus can handel 1 day with playing around with him with out charging him
[17:04] <anpok> diogo_: you mean whether ubuntu will consume a lot of energy?
[17:05] <diogo_> yes
[17:09] <anpok> diogo_: there is currently a regressions while display is off, but on most other use cases ubuntu touch does better than 'the android baseline'
[17:09] <anpok> not sure how that baseline was picked..
[17:10] <diogo_> anpok_: i need to charge it at least 1 time a day for about 3h to use the phone for about 3,4h
[17:11] <anpok> what os and if ubuntu touch build are you running?
[17:11] <diogo_> i'm using ubuntu touch lg nexus 4
[17:12] <diogo_> makro
[17:12] <anpok> then you might be affected by this bug:
[17:12] <anpok> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1339883
[17:13] <diogo_> Nexus 4 	  occam 	  mako
[17:13] <anpok> that bug is independent of the phone
[17:13] <ahoneybun> hello all
[17:14] <diogo_> and i've found some other bugs, like then your phone is in standby and then you enter the phone again the time isnt the same
[17:14] <diogo_> hi
[17:16] <ahoneybun> hey diogo_
[17:19] <anpok> hm yes that one is #1359802 and currently in progress
[17:21] <diogo_> any one here with an nexus 4 ?
[17:21] <anpok> me
[17:22] <diogo_> anpok_ does your phone consume much energy?\
[17:23] <anpok> right now - more than it used to
[17:24] <diogo_> and how many time can you use it, like 5h top?
[17:24] <diogo_> and how much does it take you to charge him
[17:25] <anpok> no statistics at hand.. but thats a known bug that will be hopefully be fixed in the coming week
[17:31] <diogo_> i hope so
[17:57] <pdxwebdev> I keep running out of space when when I do 'apt-get build-dep ubuntu-system-settings' on nexus 4 16GB.
[18:02] <pdxwebdev> when I try to resize /dev/loop0 resize2fs says the kernel doesn't support online resizing.
[18:33] <diogo_> guys i have a huge problem
[18:33] <diogo_> just conected my defice with the sdk
[18:34] <diogo_> and then i downloaded the image to run my defice on the sdk
[18:35] <diogo_> then i frezed, i turnd him off and now it is taking like 5 mins to start up and still nothing
[20:05] <szymon_W> Hi! anyone could help me with setting up SDK on my desktop ? I have created kit for armhf, and enabled developer mode on device. I'm trying to run app on nexus4 and I get this error: No packaging directory available, please check if the deploy configuration is correct. any ideas how to correct this error ?
[20:12] <ahoneybun> I need help with this section https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting#Enabling_a_new_device
[20:13] <ahoneybun> my device has CM support but I don't know much about git
[20:20] <ahoneybun> I don't have local_manifests/roomservice.xml in my .repo directory
[20:27] <labsin> ahoneybun, just create the folder local_manifests
[20:27] <labsin> every file inside this folder is used
[20:28] <labsin> you can name it whatever
[20:29] <ahoneybun> ok
[20:29] <labsin> ahoneybun, If you need some repo's rom cyanogenmod, then add <remote name="github" fetch="https://github.com" review="review.cyanogenmod.org" /> to the start of that manifest
[20:30] <labsin> then you can just do <project remote="github" path="external/f2fs-tools" name="CyanogenMod/android_external_f2fs-tools" revision="refs/heads/cm-11.0" />
[20:30] <labsin> fi
[20:30] <ahoneybun> wait
[20:30] <ahoneybun> cm 11?
[20:30] <ahoneybun> I thought 10.1
[20:31] <labsin> ahoneybun, It's just a copy from my local manifest
[20:31] <ahoneybun> ok
[20:31] <ahoneybun> those two are the top things I need?
[20:32] <labsin> that manifest based on cm could be outdated.
[20:32] <ahoneybun> there is a exp on the wiki
[20:32] <ahoneybun> oh
[20:32] <ahoneybun> should I grab the cm11 device and kernel gits for my device>
[20:32] <ahoneybun> ?
[20:34] <labsin> I actually don't know
[20:34] <ahoneybun> I'm grabing 11
[20:34] <labsin> the build instructions get updated more often then the porting guide. They differ a bit
[20:35] <ahoneybun> the last bits are for supported devices
[20:35] <ahoneybun> there is no build for m7vzw
[20:35] <ahoneybun> the verizon htc one m7
[20:35] <labsin> on the building page of the wiki, they say to use the phablet-4.4.2_r1 branches
[20:36] <labsin> I don't know wich are used to build the current images and if they differ much
[20:36] <ahoneybun> well I think 11 is 4.4.4
[20:36] <ahoneybun> well 4.4
[20:36] <labsin> yes
[20:36] <ahoneybun> 10.1-10.3 is jellybean
[20:36] <ahoneybun> I thnk
[20:36] <ahoneybun> *think
[20:37] <labsin> And the building pages suggests phablet-4.4.2_r1 and if you use phablet-dev-bootstrap to set up the repo this branch is used
[20:37] <ahoneybun> I'm still cloning the kernel
[20:37] <ahoneybun> I used that command
[20:37] <labsin> ok, then you get the phablet-4.4.2_r1 branch
[20:37] <ahoneybun> 4.4.2 is 11
[20:38] <labsin> yes
[20:38] <ahoneybun> guess we will see
[20:38] <ahoneybun> I mean it is not a big jump like 4.4 - 5
[20:38] <ahoneybun> kitkat vs L
[20:38] <ahoneybun> I think 4.4.3 and 4.4.4 are bug fixes mostly
[20:38] <labsin> and you need to add the github remote to you local manifest like I said
[20:39] <labsin> ahoneybun, yes
[20:39] <ahoneybun> well I'm cloning the device and kernel into their own folders
[20:39] <ahoneybun> and the .repo dir was made with the kernel git
[20:42] <ahoneybun> do I have to make the .repo dir too?
[20:42] <ahoneybun> it was there before
[20:43] <labsin> what have you done?
[20:43] <ahoneybun> there it is
[20:43] <labsin> phablet-dev-bootstrap?
[20:46] <ahoneybun> yea I got the folder
[21:02] <ahoneybun> the problem I am having it that it did not download the source code for my device so I can't get the nonfree blobs for radio
[21:03] <ahoneybun> the wiki says I can just pull them from the zip file that is the rom
[21:13] <ahoneybun> I got all the blobs by hand but where do they go in the Ubuntu Touch>
[21:13] <ahoneybun> ?
[21:15] <ahoneybun> I need help please
[22:13] <nhaines> ahoneybun: there are a lot more people in here during EU working hours on the weekdays.  Although they're also really busy working on Ubuntu for the first devices hitting in December.
[22:13] <nhaines> So you might want to check in again about 10 hours from now.
[22:24] <ahoneybun> nhaines: I'll be asleep/work though but thanks
[22:24] <nhaines> ahoneybun: wish I knew the answers.  :)
[22:25] <ahoneybun> yea me too nhaines


[00:52] <paultag> Hey LP. I seem to have an email associated with my LP profile that I don't muchly want on there. Can anyone take a look for me?
[00:52] <paultag> lp:paultag email:daemon [at] metatron.pault.ag
[00:55] <micahg> paultag: is it not removable? in teh edit e-mails screen?
[00:56] <paultag> micahg: it's not showing as a contact mail for me. I think it picked it up off a GPG key I had on my account, and now it's stuck to my account
[00:59] <wgrant> paultag: Where do you see it?
[00:59] <paultag> wgrant: I was convinced it was stuck to my account, so I tried making an account with the mail. Lo and behold it logs me in as paultag
[01:00] <wgrant> paultag: Try logging in with that address at login.ubuntu.com. You may have two accounts there.
[01:01] <paultag> wgrant: yeah, I made one there to test
[01:01] <paultag> wgrant: but it never asked for a username on LP, because it thinks that that'
[01:01] <paultag> s on my account
[01:02] <wgrant> paultag: Does the email address show up on https://launchpad.net/~paultag/+editemails?
[01:02] <paultag> wgrant: no
[01:02] <wgrant> It may be there as an unverified address.
[01:03] <paultag> Oh let me double check
[01:03] <paultag> wgrant: solid. I missed that. Thanks!
[01:04] <wgrant> paultag: That's probably a bug.
[01:04] <paultag> wgrant: tried it again (just to see if it still does it) -- it did it again
[01:04] <paultag> wgrant: yeah, I think so too
[01:05] <wgrant> paultag: Have you removed the address?
[01:05] <paultag> wgrant: yes
[01:06] <paultag> wgrant: totally gone from +editemails
[01:06] <wgrant> There are some, uh, amusing interactions when there are multiple login.launchpad.net accounts for a launchpad.net account.
[01:06] <wgrant> Log out of launchpad.net and login.launchpad.net.
[01:06] <wgrant> Log in using your normal account that is meant to be associated with ~paultag.
[01:06] <paultag> wgrant: done
[01:06] <wgrant> That may be enough to dissociate the other account in a few minutes.
[01:07] <paultag> wgrant: I'll let this sit for 30 and see if I can put it into failure mode again
[01:07] <wgrant> (it looks up the launchpad.net account by the login.launchpad.net account's OpenID identifier. if there is no match, it looks up by email address instead.)
[01:07] <wgrant> It's very confusing at the moment, because LP is half-way to becoming a normal OpenID consumer.
[01:08] <wgrant> So it is half-detached from login.launchpad.net.
[01:08] <paultag> humm
[01:08] <paultag> wgrant: thanks for the debugging. I'll try to cause it to fail again in a few, and file a bug or two.
[01:09] <wgrant> Thanks.
[01:26] <fmarier> looks like i made a typo while registering a project (in the launchpad id that's part of the URL). should i delete the project and create a new one or is there a way to rename it?
[01:26] <wgrant> fmarier: I can rename it for you.
[01:27] <wgrant> Could you ask a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion, to verify that it's actually you?
[01:27] <fmarier> sure thing
[01:28] <wgrant> Ah, I see it.
[01:28] <wgrant> s/jamrain/janrain/?
[01:29] <fmarier> yeah :)
[01:29] <wgrant> Renamed.
[01:29] <fmarier> and here's the question for it :) https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/147734
[01:30] <fmarier> thanks wgrant
[01:30] <wgrant> We can set up a redirect if you want, but I guess there's very little point in this case :)
[01:32] <fmarier> no point in this case, the project was created yesterday
[06:52]  * maxb supposes the PPA publisher is suffering... sources unpublished 21 minutes after accept
[06:56] <wgrant> maxb: It was running very slowly for ~40 minutes around this time a couple of days ago.
[06:56] <wgrant> I haven't investigated yet.
[07:30] <diwic> good morning. I'm wondering if my code import is stuck in an infinite loop, it seems that way: https://code.launchpad.net/~diwic/sound-2.6/trunk
[07:31] <wgrant> diwic: It seems to be going OK. We import Git branches in a series of 30000-revision increments.
[07:31] <wgrant> (if you hover over the grey ticks, you'll see "Partial Success". Completion is indicated by a green tick)
[07:32] <diwic> wgrant, ok, thanks!
[07:32] <wgrant> Not as obvious as it could be :(
[07:34] <diwic> wgrant, a line last in the log saying something like "remaining revisions to fetch" would be great
[07:34] <diwic> wgrant, although now I can see that the number of "finding revisions to fetch" is decreasing.
[07:52] <wgrant> maxb: The daily cleanup job had blocked the publisher. It's pretty much caught up now.
[07:53] <wgrant> maxb: I suspect we'll have to drop cron.daily-ppa back to weekly.
[09:22] <mrevell> Goodly morning 'padders
[09:27] <deryck> Morning, mrevell
[09:27] <mrevell> Hey there deryck. Stocking up on Biltong? :)
[09:28] <deryck> mrevell, heh.  Actually no :-)
[09:28] <bigjools> I want some
[09:29] <mrevell> I pick some up for my father-in-law on the rare occasions I see it here. Hmm, off topic.
[09:29] <mrevell> heh
[10:04] <maxwell69> Hello
[10:40] <maxwell69_> Hi,
[10:40] <maxwell69_> I have a problem to build launchpad
[10:41] <maxwell69_> when I do "make schema" I get an error
[10:41] <maxwell69_> with zc.buildout
[10:41] <maxwell69_> "couldn't find index page for zc.buildout"
[10:41] <maxwell69_> I think the program is trying to download zc.buildout but I get ***BLOCKED*** by --allow-hosts
[10:41] <maxwell69_> Can you help me please?
[13:35] <mdz> can someone have a look at OOPS-1889L1221 ?
[13:35] <ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1889L1221
[13:35] <mdz> it's easily reproducible for me, trying to access /+choose-affected-product on a bug
[14:04] <tumbleweed> I thought web_link was supposed to be independant of launchpadlib version, right? I've noticed that it's not available on my Debian box, and ari-tczew just ran into this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/575469/
[14:04] <tumbleweed> ari-tczew: which ubuntu release?
[14:04] <ari-tczew> tumbleweed: natty
[14:04] <tumbleweed> oh, that may be different then
[14:10] <mdz> is it just me, or did the font on launchpad.net get smaller?
[14:11] <mdz> it looks like it's using the Ubuntu font now, but it's smaller and harder to read than it was before
[14:11] <tumbleweed> fonts on launchpad.net got considerably weirder recently
[14:29] <tumbleweed> ari-tczew: ok, turned that web_link issue into a question: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/147786
[14:30] <soren> mdz: It might be smaller. I'm not sure, but I'm sure it's harder to read. I've been blaming it on being thinner, so less contrast.
[14:33] <mdz> soren, not just harder to read than before, but also harder to read than the other applications where I'm using the ubuntu font
[14:33] <mdz> I can't quite tell if it's smaller either
[14:33] <soren> mdz: Agreed.
[14:52] <mdz> can someone have a look at OOPS-1889L1221 ?
[14:52] <ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1889L1221
[14:52] <mdz> the oops tracker is finding it now
[15:00] <tumbleweed> sinzui: err what? web_link is only a month old and it's obsolete?
[15:02] <sinzui> tumbleweed: I tested it with beta, 1.0, and devel. It is only in beta. maybe someone placed it in the wrong version
[15:03]  * tumbleweed wonders if we were using devel accidentally. It was definitly working for us before
[15:08] <tumbleweed> the announcement actually says it's in the 1.0 API
[15:15] <tumbleweed> sinzui: aah, looks ilke it may have been a stale WADL cache
[15:15] <tumbleweed> ari-tczew: rm -rf ~/.launchpadlib/*/cache
[15:16] <sinzui> tumbleweed: stale cache is a real nuisance.
[15:16] <ari-tczew> tumbleweed: done
[15:18] <tumbleweed> sinzui: yeah I see there's an open bug about it
[16:21] <lamalex> What needs to happen for a tag to start showing up in the autocomplete dropdown?
[16:22] <lamalex> I've tagged an assload of bugs with needs-design, but it never gets easier
[16:54] <abhinav-> hi, I have been trying to login staging.launchpad.net but, It keeps saying "password did not match" . But I even reset my launchpad password
[16:55] <maxb_> resetting your password on production will not affect staging until the next time staging is reset from a backup of production
[16:56] <abhinav-> maxb: oh, so that means , I should try  later, like tomorrow ?
[17:05] <maxb> abhinav-: hah, no.
[17:05] <maxb> staging restores tend to take a day of downtime just for them to happen at all
[17:06] <abhinav-> oh ok. but I have tried even with my old password. its not taking it
[17:07] <abhinav-> and I have another launchpad id, which I made 2-3 years ago perhaps and dont use it, I was able to login through that :-|
[17:08] <abhinav-> when was the next time , staging database updated ?
[17:08] <abhinav-> I created this launchpad id only 3 days ago
[17:08] <abhinav-> *sorry, I meant to ask, when was staging updated last time
[17:11] <maxb> 2011:02:27 02:52 Full update with DB reimport: bzr revno 10236
[17:12] <maxb> abhinav-: ^
[17:12] <abhinav-> ah right. thanks
[18:37] <lamalex> What needs to happen for a tag to start showing up in the autocomplete dropdown? I've tagged an assload of bugs with needs-design, but it never gets easier
[18:48] <james_w> lamalex, it needs to be an "official" tag IIUC
[18:48] <lamalex> what constitutes official / how do we apply for that
[18:48] <james_w> I think that the bug supervisor of the project can configure that on some page
[18:49] <james_w> if you go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/project there is a link under the tag cloud
[18:50] <lamalex> ah ha!
[18:50] <lamalex> thanks
[19:16] <zyga> Hi, I tried to copy binary packages to another series in my PPA, it keeps crashing for me, could someone please have a look at OOPS (Error ID: OOPS-1889K1819)  and tell me if it's something temporary or do I need to work around it somehow
[20:26] <desrt> uh.  is the blue squad here? :)
[20:26] <desrt> i'd like to have a private PPA if that's possible.
[20:30] <mok0> desrt: you just need to register with launchpad.net
[20:30] <desrt> where do i go?
[20:35] <mok0> desrt: http://launchpad.net
[20:36] <desrt> not helpful :)
[20:38] <desrt> the launchpad help pages told me to come here and ask
[20:39] <mok0> desrt: then ask
[20:39] <desrt> i just did
[20:39] <desrt> ^^
[20:39] <mok0> desrt: from your lp page, choose the optione "Create new PPA"
[20:40] <desrt> yup...
[20:41] <desrt> then what?
[20:41] <desrt> the option doesn't seem to be here...
[20:42] <Ampelbein> desrt: do you mean by "private PPA" a "non-public PPA"?
[20:42] <desrt> yes
[20:42] <desrt> that's the language the help page on launchpad.net uses...
[20:44] <Ampelbein> desrt: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA says it's only for commercial subscribers. But I'm not affiliated with LP or canonical so I don't know if that changed.
[20:44] <desrt> i was hoping i could get access for free :p
[20:45] <paultag> not to private PPAs
[20:45] <paultag> but public PPAs are free
[20:45] <paultag> just click on +add ppa on the person (or team)'s page
[20:45]  * desrt would assume that canonical counts as a commercial launchpad subscriber
[20:45] <paultag> desrt: I would as well. do you work at canonical?
[20:46] <desrt> contracting
[20:46] <paultag> desrt: you don't have a hostmask from canonical/
[20:46] <paultag> desrt: talk with whoever's above you :)
[20:46] <desrt> ah
[20:46] <desrt> i forgot about that thing expiring
[20:46] <desrt> explains some of the confusion :)
[20:46] <desrt> sorry
[20:47] <desrt> paultag: fair enough.  thanks
[20:47] <paultag> desrt: cheers. good luck
[20:50] <james_w> does launchpad give 404s for unprivileged users when they hit a deactivated users page?
[21:07] <kamal> who can kill a PPA build for me?  (its a kernel targeted to the wrong distro -- hate to have it clog up the builder for hours).
[21:18] <lamalex> on what component would I file a bug for an additional X-Launchpad-Bug header element?
[21:19] <james_w> 'launchpad'
[21:19] <james_w> kamal, lamont can probably help you
[21:19] <micahg> lamalex: all launchpad bugs were consolidated into the launchpad project
[21:19] <lamalex> oh ok, neat
[21:19] <lamalex> thanks
[21:20] <kamal> james_w: looks like the bogus builds just failed anyway, so alls well :-)  thanks!
[21:21] <james_w> kamal, lucky!
[21:22] <kamal> james_w: *sigh* ... no, it was my replacement build that failed :-(   back to the drawing board.
[21:22] <kamal> lamont: if you're available, I would like a PPA build killed.
[21:23] <lamont> kamal: which one?
[21:23] <lamont> build record url preferred
[21:23] <kamal> https://launchpad.net/~kamalmostafa/+archive/linux-kamal-mjgbacklight/+buildjob/2300698
[21:23] <kamal> and
[21:23] <kamal> https://launchpad.net/~kamalmostafa/+archive/linux-kamal-mjgbacklight/+buildjob/2300699
[21:24] <lamont> kamal: is that just because it's going to take forever?
[21:24] <lamont> did you already upload a newer version?
[21:24] <kamal> yes, and also because if (by some miracle it does succeed) I don't want the binaries to be presented to subscribers
[21:24] <kamal> I did already upload a newer version but it has failed, I am investigating why
[21:25] <lamont> ok.  the newer source means that I can trivially kill the builds (just yank the ppa builder out from under them, and they don't get retried)
[21:26] <kamal> lamont: ok, good deal.  thank you very much
[21:27] <kamal> lamont: oh wait ...
[21:27] <kamal> lamont: the problem was that I uploaded the bad packages as targeted for *maverick* ...
[21:27] <kamal> but the "newer version" that I uploaded was (properly) targeted to natty, so ...
[21:27] <lamont> meaning that the ones I just yanked the rug from under will happily retry?
[21:27] <kamal> maybe the PPA will want to retry the bogus mav builds
[21:27] <lamont> it will
[21:27] <kamal> sigh
[21:28] <lamont> Build status
[21:28] <lamont> [SUPERSEDED] Build for superseded Source
[21:28] <kamal> I did also request that the bogus maverick packages be deleted, but I dont' know how long that actually takes
[21:29] <lamont> in any case, they are deaddeaddead
[21:29] <kamal> hmmm... maybe it really means "Build for deleted Source" but whatever :-)
[21:29] <kamal> thanks again!
[21:50] <Ampelbein> hi! can someone remove the spam comment in bug 507004 ?
[21:53] <maxb> Ampelbein: The weekend is generally a time when staff aren't monitoring IRC much, you'd probably be wise to log the request at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
[21:55] <Ampelbein> sure thing
[22:41] <CrazyLemon> hey guys..whenever i click on "This bug affects 5 people. Does this bug affect you? "    i get this popup error http://pastebin.com/fg6kavM7
[22:41] <CrazyLemon> is this a known bug?
[22:42] <james_w> CrazyLemon, looks like you have sending referrers turned off?
[22:43] <CrazyLemon> james_w yea i just read that line
[22:43] <CrazyLemon> but i dont remember changing referrers settings
[22:47] <CrazyLemon> james_w i now changed the referer header settings to '2' and it works now.. thanks
[22:47] <CrazyLemon> take care guys


[00:00] <Muscovy> Hello all.
[00:13] <UndiFineD> hey Muscovy
[00:13] <UndiFineD> I am writing up a summary
[00:13] <Muscovy> Oh, what on?
[00:14] <UndiFineD> on what has happened and where work can be done
[00:15] <Muscovy> Where are you writing it, UndiFineD?
[00:16] <UndiFineD> atm in gedit :p
[00:16] <Muscovy> Not sure if you know, but we've got basic tutorials at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTour
[00:17] <UndiFineD> yeah I know, this is more a bit of progress overview
[00:17] <UndiFineD> what was done
[00:18] <Muscovy> Oh ok.
[00:52] <MadnessRed> :0 someone removed my connecting to the network tour :(
[00:53] <Muscovy> Aprilg did that a few days ago because there were 2.
[00:53] <MadnessRed> oh ok,
[00:53] <Muscovy> If anything's missing in the retained one, just splice it in.
[00:54] <MadnessRed> kk
[00:56] <MadnessRed> do we have a list anywhere of things which need doing, programming wize?
[00:57] <UndiFineD> do that in the code
[00:58] <UndiFineD> at work I tend to do that with lines starting with /* TODO: */
[00:58] <UndiFineD> so for all things todo you can search them
[01:01] <MadnessRed> ok
[01:01] <MadnessRed> I also found a list on the wiki
[01:13] <UndiFineD> people who read code, generally like their things todo in there, people who provide content need a separate place for that.
[01:15] <UndiFineD> some provided html comments, but this tends to be overwritten or removed
[01:23] <MadnessRed> kk
[01:23] <MadnessRed> I have got the arrows working, look at the build test, for the latest push, rev 189
[01:47] <UndiFineD> wow, there is actually work done today :p
[01:51] <MadnessRed> ok try 191, the built tests should show you how the arrows work
[02:04] <UndiFineD> nice !!!!!
[02:04] <UndiFineD> you made it exactly as I imagined
[02:05] <UndiFineD> MadnessRed, deserves a cookie
[02:06] <MadnessRed> :)
[02:06] <MadnessRed> I would have prefered it to be a bit smoother
[02:07] <UndiFineD> AA ?
[02:07] <UndiFineD> or like it is done to fonts
[02:08] <MadnessRed> Don't think so, I am hoping to find another way of making the arrows completely
[02:08] <MadnessRed> The arrow is actually a pygtk window
[02:12] <UndiFineD> I removed my screenshots and the proposed nl translations made by Ivo
[02:13] <MadnessRed> kk
[02:13] <UndiFineD> I will redo them in the morning
[02:14] <UndiFineD> as my vm is ready and I have a bit more time then
[02:14] <UndiFineD> it is 3 am now, so time for bed
[02:16] <MadnessRed> ok, 2am here
[02:17] <MadnessRed> talk more tomorrow
[07:46] <webrsk> UndiFineD: hey :)
[09:10] <webrsk> Phaiax: Hello :)
[09:10] <Phaiax> ji
[09:10] <Phaiax> hi
[09:11] <webrsk> hope you having fun :)
[09:11] <Phaiax> yey, i have
[09:12] <webrsk> I was fixing some bug in backend code of tour..
[09:12] <webrsk> while doing that i found the The Places page has used .svg images. Do you know is there any specific reason for using it... we can use the screenshot of places meny itself rite..!!!
[09:15] <webrsk> because svg images arise errors !! So if i know the reason of using it, i shall think of the solution based on it...
[09:19] <Phaiax> the reason is that the standart icon pack uses vector based images, because they are better scalable
[09:21] <Phaiax> ah i see the error
[09:21] <Phaiax> but its only a GtkWarning and no error...
[09:21] <Phaiax> i think that is no problem at all... because all gnome applicatiobs print such GtkWarnings sometimes
[09:22] <webrsk> yes...but we can use the screenshot of the The Places menu itself rite...because application and system menu uses screenshots so it will be unique...
[09:23] <webrsk> This page alone getting differentiated by using Icons also the labels are not matching to the exact menu like "Desktop" is shown as "Desktop Folder"...
[09:26] <Phaiax> hm, okay
[09:27] <Phaiax> i'm convinced
[09:27] <webrsk> Am i make sense , Phaiax ?
[09:27] <Phaiax> yes
[09:27] <webrsk> Cool :)
[12:20] <UndiFineD> good morning
[12:23] <webrsk> Happy morning UndiFineD :)
[13:04] <UndiFineD> getting side-tracked by email
[16:35] <miloBing> hello
[16:38] <UndiFineD> hi
[16:39] <UndiFineD> I may be a bit slow, as I am making the dutch screenshots atm
[16:40] <miloBing> it's alright
[17:45] <Silasle> UndiFineD: I agree on everything in that "progress evaluation"!  :)  Except, fp
[17:45] <Silasle> opps
[17:46] <UndiFineD> hello Silasle :)
[17:46] <Silasle> *except, dp we need all those topics under missing?
[17:46] <UndiFineD> fp ?
[17:46] <Silasle> *do
[17:46] <UndiFineD> no we do not need all, unless we are becoming a replacement for the standard ubuntu help
[17:47] <UndiFineD> I am thinking ahead as how to get it approved as a standard package, inside the installation cd
[17:48] <Silasle> So what do you think that really is "missing" in ubuntu-tour now?
[17:48] <UndiFineD> then ubuntu / canonicl will set a few demands
[17:49] <UndiFineD> the first line of missing, absolutely
[17:49] <Silasle> Printing is not that easy :P
[17:50] <UndiFineD> even when people will not look at the licence and disclaimer, it has to be there
[17:50] <UndiFineD> i know printing is not easy, I do not even own a printer
[17:51] <UndiFineD> but when we provide info for scanning, printing is a must have too
[17:52] <Silasle> Yes, but I still have to print whit windows on the network printer, i don't think that is possible on linux  :'(
[17:52] <UndiFineD> and my thoughts wander off to "the paperless office of 15 years ago"
[17:53] <UndiFineD> it is possible
[17:53] <Silasle> It's an photo printer
[17:53] <UndiFineD> network printers are even eassier than lpt / scsi / usb connected ones
[17:53] <Silasle> How?
[17:54] <UndiFineD> network printers do not require drivers
[17:54] <UndiFineD> everything is handled by cups / gutenprint
[17:54] <Silasle> Maybe i'll try again when maverick comes out
[17:54] <UndiFineD> it's already out in alpha
[17:55] <UndiFineD> works quite well, just a few minor issues
[17:55] <UndiFineD> the screenshot cd, is maverick alpha
[17:55] <Silasle> I wait for the real release.
[17:57] <UndiFineD> anyway I am busy making dutch screenshots
[17:58] <UndiFineD> and switch screens often
[17:58] <Silasle> Creating screenshots is not my problem, i'm an programmer. ;)
[17:59] <UndiFineD> so am I, but still have to learn python
[18:04]  * UndiFineD is away for diner
[18:51]  * UndiFineD is back
[19:04] <jasono> I can revise.
[19:05] <UndiFineD> hey jason,
[19:05] <jasono> Hi
[19:05] <UndiFineD> here as announced on the mailing list
[19:06] <UndiFineD> I think a few others will join in, later tonight
[19:06] <jasono> Cool.
[19:06] <UndiFineD> (20:06 here)
[19:06] <jasono> I'm a newbie at this. How do I add things to bzzr. What country? I'll add it to my Panel.
[19:07] <jasono> 14:07 here in AMerica
[19:07] <UndiFineD> bazaar is explained here: http://ubuntutour.org/contribute/branch/
[19:08] <jasono> I've been there but I can't get it. There's a folder that's been download to my 'Home' folder. Is that where I put in my contributions?
[19:09] <jasono> To upload my work.
[19:09] <UndiFineD> you get a local folder called ~/ubuntu-tour
[19:09] <jasono> Yes I got that.
[19:09] <UndiFineD> this happened during bzr pull
[19:10] <Silasle> You can edit in ~/ubuntu-tour
[19:10] <UndiFineD> that is also the way to get others revisions
[19:10] <Silasle> and then push your work up to the server whit bzr push
[19:10] <jasono> How do I edit in  ~/ubuntu-tour? BY the Terminal?
[19:11] <UndiFineD> when you made changes there, first pull again, to make sure your changes do not conflict with others,
[19:11] <Silasle> Edit how you want, gedit, xemacs or some other editor
[19:12] <UndiFineD> then bzr add && bzr commit -m "your descriptive message here" && bzr push lp:ubuntu-tour
[19:13] <jasono> So the Ubuntu tour folder in my home folder is on a server. So I can edit it's content then run the bzr ubuntu tour terminal command to save/push it to the server for evryone to see?
[19:14] <UndiFineD> tou get a local copy that you can change in whatever way you like, and by push-ing you upload your commited changes
[19:15] <jasono> Okay. So when I edit the contents in the Ubuntu tour folder. What terminal command do I run to upload it?
[19:15] <UndiFineD> if a conflict happens, this can easily be resolved by bzr merge
[19:16] <UndiFineD> I use bazaar explorer to do some thing in a gui and that allows easy access to the log of commits
[19:16] <UndiFineD> so I can see what others typed and did
[19:16] <jasono> How did you learn this?
[19:16] <jasono> I want to learn.
[19:17] <UndiFineD> reading mostly :)
[19:17] <jasono> Oh. :(
[19:17] <jasono> WHere?
[19:18] <UndiFineD> everywhere, you can find so much information locally and online
[19:18] <jasono> :(
[19:18] <UndiFineD> anything you do not know and want to learn about you can google
[19:18] <jasono> I want this to be so easy for me. I'm teaching myself programming but it seems so hard.... :(
[19:19] <UndiFineD> programming is more a state of mind, how do things happen logically
[19:20] <UndiFineD> I was already programming before I owned a computer, this was in 1988, I got books from the library and learned basic
[19:21] <jasono> I ran bzr pull to update the copy of the branch and it gave me this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/499879/
[19:21] <jasono> Oh I read a book on BASIC
[19:21] <jasono> But it's old, we don't use that anymore.
[19:21] <UndiFineD> python is basic but with left out characters
[19:21] <UndiFineD> and line numbers
[19:22] <UndiFineD> actually, people are still actively doingg basic programming
[19:23] <jasono> Interesting......... :)
[19:23] <UndiFineD> fire up synaptic, select all, and search for basic
[19:23] <jasono> I will.
[19:24] <jasono> Which one? Gave me a list including: basic256
[19:26] <UndiFineD> whichever you thing will help you
[19:26] <UndiFineD> think
[19:28] <jasono> Baic256 installed.
[19:33] <Silasle> I did UBasic some years ago, for the camera.
[19:33] <Omega> Good day guys.
[19:33] <jasono> Oh.
[19:34] <jasono> Well if you can recommend me some sites or books I would greatly appreciate it!
[19:34] <Silasle> Hi Omega
[19:34] <Omega> Python is not BASIC, and thank god it isn't too.
[19:35] <Silasle> Basic was fun :P
[19:35] <UndiFineD> hey Omega
[19:35] <Silasle> But jasono, do you want python or basic? I would learn python
[19:35] <jasono> Hello OMegam.
[19:35] <jasono> Omega
[19:35] <UndiFineD> No I merely wanted to point out it is a state of mind, python and basic are very diffirent, but once tyou have the state of mind, the programming language does not matter
[19:35] <Omega> No-one uses BASIC.
[19:36] <jasono> Agree.
[19:36] <Silasle> I used this: http://docs.python.org/release/2.5.2/tut/tut.html
[19:37] <UndiFineD> though it would be fun to see the old basic code working that used to handle floppy drives
[19:37] <jasono> Thank you.
[19:38] <Omega> 2.5 is old now
[19:38] <Omega> 2.7 is what you should use
[19:38] <Silasle> No big changes
[19:39] <jasono> Thanks alot.
[19:40] <jasono> And if I can revise online for now, it would be easier.
[19:40] <UndiFineD> with bazaar you mean ?
[19:41] <jasono> Oh. Then I guess.
[19:41] <jasono> If you can show me.
[19:41] <Silasle> It is easy if you did it once
[19:41] <jasono> I never have.
[19:47] <Silasle> Hmm, i where going to send jasono an short tutorial :(
[19:48] <UndiFineD> I already pointed to our branch manual
[19:48] <UndiFineD> it does not get any clearer than that
[19:50] <Silasle> No, but some people need more explanation.
[19:51] <UndiFineD> indeed, some people are very scared to do something wrong
[19:52] <Silasle> jasono: Try the manual at ubuntutour.org and ask if you need some help
[19:53] <jasono> Thank you.
[21:03] <Silasle> Hey, bug  636618 isn't fixed!
[21:04] <Silasle> But i think i know how to fix it
[21:05] <UndiFineD> great :)
[21:05] <Muscovy> WHat's the bug?
[21:05] <UndiFineD> i just mentioned some bugs have had their fixes
[21:05] <UndiFineD> Muscovy, your into the code as well, aren't you ?
[21:05] <Muscovy> Omega, you here?
[21:06] <Muscovy> UndiFineD: Kinda. I can code, but I'm not at all used to GTK stuff.
[21:06] <Silasle> So, I pushed that fix
[21:06] <UndiFineD> I was wondering if we could have language independant next and previous buttons too
[21:07] <Silasle> Muscovy: The "When first opened, tour window shows redundant scrollbar" bug
[21:07] <Omega> Muscovy: I am.
[21:07] <Muscovy> Omega, did you file the Ubottu request?
[21:10] <Muscovy> I remembered that just now with the mention of bugs.
[21:11] <Omega> Muscovy: Yes.
[21:12] <Muscovy> It took about a week for the ubuntulo1 request to go through.
[21:12] <Muscovy> :|
[21:14] <Silasle> UndiFineD: Doesn't gtk.Button(stock=gtk.STOCK_GO_FORWARD) fix that whit the language?
[21:14] <UndiFineD> not for me
[21:14] <UndiFineD> when I do
[21:15] <Omega> Muscovy: Oh, this is a different request?
[21:15] <UndiFineD> $ LANG=nl_NL.utf8 && python ubuntu-tour.py
[21:15] <Silasle> Is that changing the language?
[21:15] <UndiFineD> yes
[21:16] <Muscovy> Omega: yeah. Ubottu is the bot for generic responses and buginfo and so on, Ubuntulo1 is the log bot.
[21:16] <Silasle> I think i just have english installed.
[21:16] <Silasle> So i cant try
[21:18] <UndiFineD> installing a langage pack should make a diffirent language available in gnome
[21:18] <UndiFineD> which should change when LANG is set
[21:18] <Silasle> Can you try http://paste.ubuntu.com/499940/ (replace ubuntu-tour.py) ?
[21:21] <UndiFineD> $ LANG=nl_NL.utf8 && python try.py <-- showing correct language buttons
[21:21] <Silasle> is try.py my file?
[21:21] <UndiFineD> yeop
[21:21] <Silasle> So we can change that in the trunk?
[21:21] <UndiFineD> i think so
[21:21] <Silasle> But then we get forward instead of next
[21:22] <UndiFineD> "Klik op <b>Volgende</b> om te beginnen." matches my button text
[21:22] <UndiFineD> :D
[21:23] <Silasle> Ok
[21:23] <UndiFineD> I don't know, maybe there is a en_GB / en_US diffirence ?
[21:23] <UndiFineD> I'll try
[21:24] <Silasle> Dutch isn't that difficult if you can speak german :P
[21:24] <UndiFineD> no appearantly not
[21:24] <Silasle> No, but we set the text to next manually before.
[21:25] <Silasle> So  i commit and then we change the text files using next?
[21:25] <UndiFineD> that might be easiest
[21:26] <UndiFineD> I had 4 years of german education in school I and I still don't get it
[21:27] <UndiFineD> kino, sounds more like a red-light district thing
[21:27]  * Silasle has parents from Germany but lives in Sweden.
[21:28] <Silasle> The code is commited
[21:28] <UndiFineD> Silasle, I will remove my try.py
[21:29] <UndiFineD> so it doesn't clutter up bazaar
[21:29] <Silasle> I will change next to forward.
[21:31] <Silasle> Changed
[21:32] <Silasle> We are at revision 200! Nice Work!
[21:33] <Muscovy> :D
[21:35] <Silasle> That logo on the first page is enormous.
[21:36] <Muscovy> I keep meaning to build a nicer one.
[21:41] <UndiFineD> I liked the bus
[21:42] <UndiFineD> it seemed engaging
[21:42] <Silasle> Better then the one we have now
[21:43] <UndiFineD> at it brought a smile to my 9yo daughter
[21:43] <UndiFineD> yes I have a test crowd :p
[21:44] <Muscovy> Really? I didn't like the bus.
[21:44] <Muscovy> I figured a prominent desktop screenshot (maybe larger than now) would be a good base.
[21:44] <Silasle> Who created the one we have now?
[21:44] <UndiFineD> if it is larger, you can read the language
[21:45] <Silasle> You can already
[21:46] <UndiFineD> then my eyes are getting worse
[21:46] <Muscovy> I edited the bus one and stuck the screenshot there.
[21:47] <Silasle> But the username is alex
[21:47] <Silasle> Ok, your name is Alexander
[21:49] <Muscovy> Yes.
[21:49] <Muscovy> I go by both, so I just alex as my username just 'cause it's shorter.
[22:56] <UndiFineD> about ubuntu nl_NL screenshots ready
[22:56] <UndiFineD> so content is similar to english


[00:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3138 Publishing packages
[00:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3138 Publish failed: Bad merges
[00:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3138 Successfully built


 Quite a bit to do and have to run my son back and forth from the dentist.
[09:17] <brobostigon> good luck, dont wear self out.
[09:19] <bigcalm> Does said dentist use open molar?
[09:26] <AlanBell> there is also openERP dental
[09:26] <AlanBell> http://www.valuedecision.com/dental-openerp-project/
[09:28] <cbx33> Hey there peeps
[09:28] <cbx33> What do people generally use for video editing at the moment on ubuntu?
[09:29] <AlanBell> openshot
[09:29] <MooDoo> pitivi
[09:31] <cbx33> I used to be a Cinelerra kinga guy as it seemed to be the only one that was pretty full featured
[09:31] <brobostigon> blender
[09:31] <cbx33> brobostigon, hardcore!!!
[09:31] <popey> MooDoo: which one? :D
[09:31] <cbx33> pre 2.5?
[09:31] <MooDoo> popey: your hire car :)
[09:32] <cbx33> hey popey !
[09:32] <brobostigon> cbx33: the standard natty version,it hs took along time to learn.
[09:32] <cbx33> yeh I can imagine!
[09:32] <cbx33> I did look at the a while ago
[09:32] <cbx33> when I was doing the pr0g80X.vid vidcast
[09:32] <brobostigon> ah
[09:32] <AlanBell> brobostigon: got any examples of stuff you have done in blender?
[09:32] <brobostigon> AlanBell: let me dig,
[09:32] <oimon> is there any truth in the story that bitcoin is actually an AMD marketing ploy, and they wrote the software (to be 10x faster on inferior AMD cards), and injected tens of thousands of $ into the market to create the initial fake demand?
[09:33] <cbx33> http://blip.tv/pr0g80xvid/pr0g80x-vid-episode0-4-966912 - that was cinelerra with blender for the overlays
[09:34] <AlanBell> oimon: no
[09:34] <oimon> no thats cos i made it up. would be funny though
[09:34] <cbx33> oimon, good story though
[09:34] <popey> MooDoo: yeah, its fine
[09:35] <MooDoo> popey: obviously the 5 times you beeped wasn't enough, 6 and it would of been fine ;D
[09:35] <oimon> modern bumpers can withstand impact of up to 15 mph
[09:35] <oimon> as i discovered when some fool drove into the back of me at a roundabout
[09:36]  * MooDoo is a motorbike rider......
[09:36] <brobostigon> AlanBell: http://ubuntuone.com/p/1Rh/
[09:38] <popey> MooDoo: clearly
[09:38] <popey> MooDoo: I went a bit nuts
[09:39] <MooDoo> popey: not surprised, still get their details though?
[09:40] <bigcalm> Protective of your new mota
[09:40] <oimon> https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6#diff-1
[09:40] <popey> MooDoo: took a photo of their numberplate
[09:40] <popey> bigcalm: hire car
[09:40] <bigcalm> Ah
[09:40] <bigcalm> Ne-bother then ;)
[09:40] <oimon> i lol'd at the bumblebee fail, then saw the comments :)
[09:40] <popey> well, i dont want her claiming I hit her
[09:41] <bigcalm> popey: fair enough
[09:42] <bigcalm> I had an old man roll back into me. Lightest of touches I'm sure. My dad was with me and he seemed more peed off than I was
[09:42] <dogmatic69> o/
[09:43] <dogmatic69> MooDoo: what bike you got?
[09:43] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: suzuki bandit 600
[09:43] <dogmatic69> nice
[09:43]  * dogmatic69 has a rvf 400
[09:44] <dogmatic69> honda ^
[09:44] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: yes it's a bit of a change, my previous one was a kwak zx6 [had to sell it]
[09:44]  * TheOpenSourcerer used to have a BSA C15 SuperSport (about 25 yrs ago)
[09:45] <MooDoo> nice
[09:46] <dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: about 25 yrs ago i had a http://tinyurl.com/3qfdbvr
[09:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> My first bike was a Garelli something or other.
[10:09] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: ooh, you might know this, then - what's teh difference between the rvf and the vfr? It is basically the way-up-ness of the forks?
[10:15] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: rvf is newer, last production about 96' iirc
[10:15] <dogmatic69> rvf is nc35, vfr is nc29 and lower
[10:16] <dogmatic69> rvf had upsidown forks and single swing arm, it was also the first time a company took tech direct from moto gp to a road bike
[10:16] <dogmatic69> rvf was only ever released in japan so any one you get in any other country is a 'gray import'
[10:17] <dogmatic69> they are pretty much collectors status, can fetch 5k for a nice one
[10:19] <BigRedS> ahhh, so there's a bunch of subtleties, too
[10:20] <BigRedS> And, yeah, they do seem a bit more than a vfr :) I've a couple of mates after VFRs, keep stumbling across these mythical RVFs with funny-looking forks :)
[10:26] <selinuxium> BigRedS dogmatic69, I had a NC30 for years... Lovely bike... :)
[10:27] <MooDoo> i want a zx12 next, ooo look a flying pig :)
[10:28] <dogmatic69> selinuxium: nice
[10:28] <BigRedS> selinuxium: yeah, I'm getting more and more sold ona  vfr (800, though) through helping these guys find some
[10:28] <BigRedS> but I think I'd miss the comfort of the pan :) An ST1300 seems to be the logical choice for my next bike :)
[10:28] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: rvf > vfr
[10:28] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: well, you would say that :)
[10:29] <dogmatic69> nope, its a fact
[10:29] <BigRedS> haha
[10:29] <dogmatic69> newer bike, newer technology, faster, etc
[10:29] <selinuxium> BigRedS, dogmatic69: I have a Triumph Sprint 900 and a Kwac ZZR400 atm...
[10:29] <BigRedS> but, yeah, that's what I heard, I just couldn't find a list of what was better.   Though my things is more, uh, 'boring' bikes
[10:32] <BigRedS> I've just ordered a bunch of bits for my CX :)
[10:33] <selinuxium> dogmatic69, Beautiful looking bike..
[10:34] <BigRedS> is that the blade or a 600?
[10:34] <selinuxium> Still want a TL100r or a Gixer 6/750/thou...
[10:34] <BigRedS> all bikes should have V engines
[10:37] <hoover> good morning
[10:38] <BigRedS> g'morning!
[10:38] <bigcalm> Good afternoon hoover
[10:48] <hoover> hey biggie
[10:53] <hoover> anyone heard of / evaluated nimbula?
[11:00] <daev> could someone please assist me with a small problem i'm having? I'm running 11.04 x86_64 but cpu doesn't flag long-mode.
[11:01] <popey> daev: whats the problem?
[11:01] <davmor2> morning all
[11:02] <davmor2> popey: you need to get rid of all cars that should solve your issues dude, that or stop drawing targets on them :)
[11:02] <popey> clearly
[11:03]  * AlanBell prefers Pendulum's new car
[11:03] <AlanBell> https://foursquare.com/colona13/checkin/4dfe2c14fa7628b893eb49c5?s=SUFrnLR7ff39D4PmKZdDQHabazw
[11:03] <bigcalm> Is there a doctor in the house?
[11:03] <gord> i can pretend to be a doctor
[11:04] <popey> You can trust me, I'm a doctor.
[11:05] <bigcalm> Grandmother has had only fruit squash drinks (little of) and pain killer patches for several weeks now. Amazingly she is still alive. How long can the body really survive in such a state?
[11:05] <daev> popey, I'm running Ubuntu 11.04 x86_64 on an AMD Turion II. I now want to install a guest os on vbox but it's imforming me that the cpu doesn't support long-mode. I checked $uname -a and everything ok. I also checked $grep --color=always -iw lm /proc/cpuinfo and it doesn't flag 'long-mode' anywhere. is there a way of getting vbox to recognise it's 64bit capable?
[11:05] <davmor2> popey: that line reminds me of Sledgehammer "Trust me I know what I'm doing!"
[11:06] <DJones> popey: Thats what Harold Shipman said isn't it
[11:06] <AlanBell> daev: yes, you need to tell it the OS you are installing is ubuntu 64 bit
[11:07] <danfish> bigcalm: the quack has arrived :)
[11:07] <czajkowski> bigcalm: some of those drinks contrain all the nutrients a person needs
[11:07]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski
[11:08] <czajkowski> meh
[11:08] <daev> AlanBell, do you know how i can tell it? Is it a setting inside vbox that will virtualise a 64bit cpu?
[11:09] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski davmor2 my fave people :D
[11:09] <AlanBell> daev: when you create a new VM it asks you what OS type you want to install
[11:09] <davmor2> MooDoo: Creep!
[11:09] <AlanBell> you want linux, and "Ubuntu (64 bit)"
[11:09] <daev> AlanBell, that's amazing. I can't believe i've overlooked this. I will check now, uno momento
[11:10] <AlanBell> if something has gone wrong then you might not see all the 64 bit options - have come across this, don't know what causes it
[11:11] <oimon> lol @ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/advice/8582895/What-can-replace-an-Amstrad-E-miler.html
[11:12] <MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski no i'm no creep, i just love you both #spreadthelove ;)
[11:12] <MooDoo> lol
[11:14] <davmor2> MooDoo: I repeat "Creep!" ;)  Morning dude good to see you in a good mood on a monday not like some mardy people looking at no one in particular czajkowski  :D
[11:15] <MooDoo> davmor2: i've had lots of coffee, i'll be on the normal downer this afternoon, and the lovely czajkowski isn't grumpy she's just overworked and needs a good old pamper :)
[11:15]  * MooDoo shakes his head
[11:16] <daev> AlanBell, thanks. It seems that was my problem all along. I didn't check I'd selected to virtualise a 64bit os. I do have a new problem now. Vbox has informed me that AMD-V is enabled but not operational. It wants me to check in BIOS but i know i don't have that option and that it's always enabled by default. Any ideas
[11:17] <AlanBell> dunno, I don't have AMD
[11:17] <daev> k cheers
[11:17] <dogmatic69> what is the crontab to run every 30 min? 30 * * * * *
[11:18] <bigcalm> 0,30
[11:18] <bigcalm> 30 will just run at 30 mins past the hour
[11:19] <dogmatic69> so 0,30 * * * * sudo ~/backup >> ~/backup.log
[11:19] <bigcalm> You might be better off using absolute paths in cronjobs
[11:20] <dogmatic69> kk
[11:21] <dogmatic69> and the time was good for every 30 min?
[11:21] <bigcalm> Yes
[11:21] <bigcalm> Well
[11:21] <dogmatic69> will that be at x:00 and x:30
[11:21] <bigcalm> Try it with something that won't blow up in your face
[11:21] <bigcalm> Yes
[11:22] <popey> also
[11:22] <popey> 12/30 * * * * ...
[11:22] <popey> actually forget that :D
[11:22] <dogmatic69> what is that?
[11:24] <dogmatic69> so what whould it be for every hour?
[11:24] <dogmatic69> 0 0,1 * * * ...
[11:24] <X3N_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cron#Examples
[11:24] <oimon> often i receive word .docs which are forms i need to fill in. when opened in openoffice, the user entry areas have dark grey backgroundd - anyone know how to remove it?
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: every hour = 0 * * * * ("the 0th minute of every hour")
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: man 5 crontab
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it has lots of examples
[11:26] <dogmatic69> 0 0/1 * * * according to wiki
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no..
[11:26] <daubers> Morning
[11:26] <dogmatic69> :/
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: 0 * * * * = on the 0th minute, of every (*) hour of every (*) day of every (*) month, do this
[11:27] <dogmatic69> k
[11:27] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: man 5 crontab, really.
[11:27]  * dogmatic69 is
[11:42] <hoover> do you need medical assistance, biggie?
[11:42]  * hoover is late to the party, as usual 8-P
[11:43] <daubers> Nokia N8's are rubbish.  If the domain doesn't end in gmail.com, hotmail.com, ovi.com or yahoo.com it assumes you want mail for exchange and only give syou options for that
[11:45] <popey> hahaha
[11:45] <popey> Who makes this phone again?
[11:45] <daubers> Nokia
[11:45] <popey> Who?
[11:45] <popey> etc
[11:45] <daubers> :p
[11:45] <daubers> Luckily I've not paid for it. It's a loan from the bottom of someones drawer after my palm exploded :(
[11:46] <BigRedS> ovi.com is one of the "big four"?
[11:46] <daubers> BigRedS: It's nokias service, so it _must_ be!
[11:46] <shauno> I think ovi is nokia's.  so they think/pretend it is
[11:46] <popey> http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/t5/Messaging-Email-and-Browsing/N8-E-Mail-Imap-Setup-Impossible/m-p/781664#M29270
[11:46] <BigRedS> ah yeah
[11:46] <daubers> popey: yeah, just read that. I've tried all those things and can't get to the "Other" option
[11:46] <popey> suggests it is possible
[11:47] <bigcalm> hoover: not me :)
[11:47] <daubers> Pile of poo :) Might just have to put up with no email for a week and a bit until I get my galaxy
[11:48] <bigcalm> Hotmail via exchange has stopped working on Hayley's Wildfire, most irritating
[11:48] <popey> golly, the podcast is going to hit 1.5 million downloads soon
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> cool
[11:49] <daubers> popey: if you had a pound for every podcast downloaded, this time next week you'd be millionaires!
[11:49] <popey> heh
[11:49] <popey> wonder how many downloads we'd get at 1GBP/download/ep
[11:49] <popey> very feww I'd imagine
[11:50] <daubers> Youd probably get more with 0.50GBP/download/ep
[11:50] <daubers> And still have 750k to show for it by now :p
[11:52] <dogmatic69> what is the best way to backup mysql without using a pw? or having the pw in all sorts of bash files
[11:52] <dogmatic69> currently i got http://bin.cakephp.org/view/187050926
[11:53] <shauno> okay, when popey starts to show up on my non-linuxy mailing lists, I really start to wonder if I'm seeing things.  he's everywhere!
[11:54] <daubers> shauno: All your email are belong to popey?
[11:55] <popey> shauno: bbc backstage?
[11:55] <shauno> ja
[11:55] <popey> :D
[11:56] <popey> been on it agaes
[11:56] <popey> *ages
[11:56] <shauno> I seriously thought my filters had broken at first.  popey doesn't belong in this folder!
[11:56] <popey> heh
[11:57]  * AlanBell contemplates fibre
[11:57] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: is there anything wrong with that? Looks reasonable
[11:57] <jpds> AlanBell: Nothing like a good cereal to start the day.
[11:58] <popey> \o/ fibre
[11:58] <Laney> backstage is closed?
[11:59] <popey> nope
[12:00] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: having the pw in the bash file
[12:00] <BigRedS> well, it needs to be somewhere
[12:00] <BigRedS> or you have an account with no password
[12:00] <shauno> I think they tried/threatened, but did a really bad job of burying it
[12:01] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: the aws ubuntu images dont need a pw
[12:01] <BigRedS> but sticking it in a file only readable by root is probably better than a user with no password
[12:01] <dogmatic69> you can just sudo and do what ever
[12:01] <BigRedS> Ah, they're probably just accounts with no password, then. Or something voodoo based...
[12:02] <dogmatic69> ye its has something in suder or what ever it is
[12:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Choosing a CMS - http://zrmt.com/2011/06/16/choosing-a-cms/
[12:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Birmigham and Solihull Rugby [Sponsorship Opportunity] - http://zrmt.com/2011/06/17/birmigham-and-solihull-rugby-sponsorship-opportunity/
[12:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] The laptop I want, 2011 edition - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/06/20/the-laptop-i-want-2011-edition
[12:03] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: sudo?
[12:03] <BigRedS> then it's likely to be a passworded account, just with the password in a file that only root can read
[12:03] <BigRedS> like debian-sys-maint
[12:03] <dogmatic69> ye, the file that manages sudo
[12:04] <dogmatic69> no
[12:04] <BigRedS> but I thought that didn't have the privileges to back things uop
[12:05] <dogmatic69> ubuntu  ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:ALL
[12:06] <jpds> Oh secure.
[12:07] <shauno> heh, the 'red carpet' approach ;)
[12:08] <dogmatic69> ye
[12:08] <dogmatic69> this is amazons idea
[12:09] <BigRedS> aren't they sort-of disposable instances, though?
[12:09] <BigRedS> bring up, run task, destroy
[12:09] <dogmatic69> for some people
[12:09] <BigRedS> oh, I thought that was the ubiquitous use-case
[12:10] <dogmatic69> we use it for normal hosting type stuff
[12:32] <BigRedS> Ah, perhaps amazon just assume it's more ephermal than that
[12:33] <BigRedS> or they can't be arsed to field questions from people not used to privilege separation
[12:33] <JGJones> BigRedS, if you get the free tier - you basically get a free webhost for a year
[12:36] <BigRedS> there's a free flavour of aws?
[12:37] <shauno> http://aws.amazon.com/free/  ?
[12:38] <oimon> anyone know if the roads will be ok to travel to the southwest on saturday, given that glasto is on?
[12:38] <BigRedS> Oh. awesome
[12:38] <BigRedS> I've a battery of s3-interfering scripts that need testing :)
[12:38] <shauno> looks like it's just a hook, but still
[12:42] <Pendulum> AlanBell: hah. I'd never actually buy an Enzo in that colour
[12:44] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: os scripts? :)
[12:49] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: ?
 I've a battery of s3-interfering scripts that need testing :)
[12:50] <dogmatic69> ^ are they open source?
[12:50] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: I'm not BigRedS :)
[12:50] <dogmatic69> lol
[12:50] <dogmatic69> auto complete has failed me :/
[12:50] <bigcalm> It does for most
[13:16] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: well, they're not particularly closed
[13:16] <BigRedS> or complicated :)
[13:17] <BigRedS> https://github.com/BigRedS/play/blob/master/to-s3.pl is the only currently-on-the-internet one I think
[13:18] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: you should check out s3cmd
[13:18] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: I've replaced a couple of uses of that script with it
[13:18] <BigRedS> but it's ruby, so I distrust it :)
[13:19] <dogmatic69> hehe
[13:20] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: you prefer peal to bash?
[13:21] <BigRedS> yeah
[13:21] <BigRedS> I get bash syntax wrong first time, every time
[13:21] <BigRedS> And, since perl's everywhere, there's little point writing even small scripts in bash when it requires so much more thinking than doing same in perl
[13:22] <dogmatic69> so pear is more wide spread than bash?
[13:22] <dogmatic69> or is it even
[13:23] <oimon> guys, i have a weird X problem, wondered if anyone has seen it..
[13:24] <oimon> when idle, the screen on my laptop has started to shift 100px left or 200px left, until i wiggle the mouse and stick it in the corner
[13:24] <BigRedS> it's about even IME. Anything unix-like has bash, and anything unix-like has perl
[13:24] <oimon> using 10.04 btw
[13:25] <BigRedS> oimon: I had that aaaaages ago, but it fixed itself/was fixed in an update. I can empathise, but not actually help...
[13:25] <oimon> only happens for mrs oimon and not me
[13:25] <dogmatic69> oimon: i had that once, rebooted and was ok
[13:25] <oimon> she gets it all the time, after a few mins idle, before screensaver kicks in
[13:26] <oimon> i press prtscrn for screenshot, but everything is OK
[13:26] <dogmatic69> mine was on desktop though
[13:27] <dogmatic69> and clicking where things should be worked, just the gfx was off if you know what i mean
[13:27] <oimon> yeah, it returns "wakes up" when i move the mouse, everything gets restored
[13:28] <oimon> wonder if it is somehow realted to the wallpaper she is using
[13:29] <hoover> oimon: cranky screen blanker maybe?
[13:29] <oimon> hoover: not sure..the screensaver is a slideshow
[13:29] <oimon> but kicks in later
[13:30] <oimon> mysterious
[13:34] <oimon> anyone got any tips for buying laptop batteries on ebay?
[13:34] <oimon> obviously will only be buying a brand new one. wondering about genuine vs compatible
[13:34] <BigRedS> I've done it with no particular care a few times, and had no problems
[13:34] <BigRedS> Always compatibles
[13:34] <shauno> I'm not sure you can trust bash to be ubiquitous anymore.  I think it's slowly going to get phased out on a lot of bsds thanks to gplv3
[13:34] <JGJones> oimon, just to clarify - are you buying laptop batteries OR portable bombs/firestarters?
[13:35] <oimon> JGJones: the intention is to charge the laptop without burning th ehouse down or exploding
[13:36] <JGJones> I've only bought 2 so far, no problem - they was as far as I could see genuine.
[13:37] <oimon> there seems to be a lot of people advertising the batteries as genuine and NEW/unused...
[13:38] <oimon> i am mistrusting and cynical by nature though :P
[13:38] <JGJones> obviously it goes without telling you go for those with highest number of positive ratings
[13:38] <oimon> yessir
[13:38] <popey> oimon: http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/power_biz/
[13:38] <popey> I have bought from them twice, good ebayer
[13:38] <JGJones> some ebay shops does have their own websites - with an actual office etc
[13:39] <JGJones> power_biz - I think they was the one I bought two batteries from in the past actually
[13:40] <oimon> thanks for the suggestions
[13:40] <oimon> will aim for a genuine if i can do it at reasonable price
[13:40] <oimon> my 3yr old laptop is holding 10 mins of charge
[13:41] <oimon> in future i will ignore any advice on prolonging battery lifetime
[13:41] <BigRedS> oimon: my experience of compatibles is that they're as good as I'd expect from a genuine
[13:41] <BigRedS> sometimes the colour's a bit off, though
[13:42] <oimon> BigRedS: in the past i've got compatibles for my canon cameras which have been a bit pathetic
[13:42] <oimon> low lifetime
[13:42] <BigRedS> Ah, these have all been for old IBM Thinkpads. I've had ~4h from a new battery, though I'm not sure I've ever actually kept using a battery for more than about a year, so it's possible they'd fall over there
[13:43] <oimon> yeah, they seem to lose 50% in a year (even the branded ones)
[13:44]  * oimon senses a disturbance in the force
[14:07] <JGJones> sigh...have anyone managed to get a domain alias working for Google Apps for domains?
[14:08] <JGJones> it never succeed for me - there's always a failure of some sort here or there, latest being a MX verification failure although can't see a problem with the DNS.
[14:09] <czajkowski> no popey the world must be coming to an end
[14:10] <davmor2> czajkowski: possibly getting his hire car towed away and replaced with another :(
[14:11] <ali1234> popey.com is down too
[14:11] <ali1234> oh it's back now
[14:46] <shauno> heh, free rams?
[14:49] <popey> well, my vps just went from 581 to 619MB after a reboot and a different kernel
[14:49] <popey> but more ram to come !
[14:49] <shauno> you found a -xen one that doesn't have this mystery window?
[14:50] <popey> Linux bishop.popey.com 2.6.32-316-ec2 #31-Ubuntu SMP Wed May 18 14:09:06 UTC 2011 i686 GNU/Linux
[14:50] <popey> ^^ that one
[14:50] <shauno> interesting.  I was going to try grabbing a -xen one from debian, but if that works, may be tidier
[14:51] <shauno> it can wait, since I'm only missing 15M :)  but good to know, since I should have a reboot coming up too
[14:51] <gord> huh, some spam got past gmails filters... the matrix must be broke
[14:52] <oimon> gord: must have been while popey was offline  :)
[14:52] <shauno> it's not spam.  you don't know you want a russian bride yet, but google has studied your history and decided for you
[14:55] <DJones> What would you do with a second russian bride though? Don't they already know from your credit card details that you've paid out recently for that
[14:59] <JGJones> DJones, you can never have too many russian brides.
[15:00] <AlanBell> one wife is plenty
[15:01] <shauno> I don't know many people who've genuinely deserved two
[15:05] <Pendulum> shauno: deserved or wanted?
[15:08] <dwatkins> popey: if you have some time and the inclination to discuss it privately, I may be able to help with your spam issue
[15:08] <shauno> I left it at 'deserved' so I have an out ;)
[15:11] <popey> dwatkins: I'd rather it was public tbh :D
[15:11] <popey> hence @adobe
[15:11] <dwatkins> popey: understood :)
[15:11] <popey> they asked for my address and I provided it
[15:11] <dwatkins> oh excellent
[15:11] <dwatkins> they are pretty good at responding to tweets
[15:15] <JGJones> most companies are pretty good at responding to tweets as they're rather public.
[15:15] <shauno> I tried that with my isp.  they told me someone would call me.  and that's the last I heard of that   hehe
[15:15] <JGJones> I had a problem with Amazon AWS - you had to provide call a number to verify yourself so I tweeted them saying I couldn't do that.
[15:15] <JGJones> and they skipped that step for me
[15:16] <dwatkins> yeah, responding is one thing, how they respond is another.
[15:16] <JGJones> dwatkins, yeah...although my issue was resolved, if I setup a new AWS account and get the telephone number again, then they haven't fixed the accessibility issue :)
[15:16] <dwatkins> I was actually impressed with the reply I got from xbox live when I complained on twitter about my red-ring-of-death problem, didn't expect anything from them at-all, but got a link to a helpfyul knowledgebase article.
[15:17] <gord> i for one look forward to the day when all call centres are replaced with twitter accounts
[15:18]  * dwatkins redirects gord to cotweet.com
[15:18] <shauno> but then they'll just move all the twits to bangalore, and we'll be back to square one
[15:18] <dwatkins> trick is to make your tweet only understandable to someone whose native language is English ;)
[15:19] <shauno> heh
[15:19] <shauno> or the other problem I get is dublin :/
[15:19] <dwatkins> What's up with Dublin?
[15:19] <gord> @gordallott - Thank you for your interesting our product, have you tried turning it off and on again
[15:19]  * AlanBell is just so tempted to make inappropriate jokes about dwatkins and the red-ring-of-death problem
[15:19] <shauno> telling me it'll "be grand" isn't very reassuring when it's already broke
[15:19] <dwatkins> AlanBell: heh
[15:20] <dwatkins> Yeah, it's all too easy to just reply with some generic and useless link to a KB article
[15:20] <shauno> they're just too happy.  they don't seem to realise that losing my internet at 2am actually is an inconvenience.  that's prime-time for me
[15:22] <popey> heheh
[15:22] <popey> the bloke I got at apple support was in dublin
[15:22] <popey> he was very jovial
[15:22] <shauno> I think they're in cork
[15:23] <shauno> they have their own little planet going on down there  lol
[15:25] <popey> yeah, quite friendly
[15:25] <popey> Apple Support++
[15:25] <shauno> I've only had to talk to them once.  got 200eur out of the convo, so can't complain
[15:26] <popey> I got free support for something I'd broken
[15:27] <shauno> ntl really are the only ones that bug me.  my bank are based in dublin too, and seem to be slightly more paranoid about my account than I am, which is healthy
[15:28] <shauno> they haven't figured out that I'm timezone-impaired, so I only get sms at 4am.  other than that, they're fine
[15:28] <dwatkins> How come you only get SMS at 4am, shauno? Are you in a Faraday-cage the rest of the time?
[15:29] <shauno> they won't phone me at 4am
[15:30] <shauno> eg, tryinb to buy my laptop half way thru the night was apparently suspicious.  so they blocked it, but wouldn't follow up until daybreak.  I just got an sms instead
[15:30] <dwatkins> oh bah
[15:30] <dwatkins> the most annoying thing about that is that they probably have people in India too
[15:31] <shauno> it was funny in retrospect.  I really should have realised that spending 2400 at 3-4am would look a little unusual
[15:32]  * dwatkins notes he's been buying a lot of phone apps recently
[15:32] <dwatkins> I guess it's cheaper than desktop ones
[15:33] <shauno> I've been trying to cut back on that.  ever since they added a list to my iphone to show me how much dross I'd actually bought :/
[15:37] <AlanBell> popey: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk
[15:42] <popey> yay
[15:43] <dwatkins> should those of us not so actively helping join up too?
[15:43] <AlanBell> sure
[15:44] <AlanBell> I just changed the logo on it
[15:47] <nigelb> AlanBell: nice logo ;)
[15:55] <gord> hah, if you have large teams on launchpad (like u-uk), and list the members, it only shows X at a time, but then if you click a header to sort by say, date, it will only sort the currently showing members making the entire thing useless
[15:58] <nigelb> gord: yeah. It hit me the other day.
[15:58] <davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/v/bTi0A3BF0i4?version=3&autohide=1&autoplay=1 comedy gold :D
[15:59]  * JGJones gives up on domain alias for google apps - if anyone want to try it, ensure you have more patience than a glacier and the ability to withstand errors that doesn't make sense.
[16:02] <bigcalm> Worked for me on 2 domains :)
[16:02] <BigRedS> that seems to be a requirement of google apps in general
[16:02] <BigRedS> though I suppose nobody ever goes and shouts about how stuff just worked
[16:02] <JGJones> bigcalm - I kept getting the MX verification error - despite my domain MX records showing up even in Google's public DNS servers.
[16:03] <bigcalm> JGJones: if I had of had those errors, I might have been able to help you
[16:03] <bigcalm> But, as I have not :S
[16:03] <JGJones> after 9 days I can't be arsed to put up with it and am going just to setup a separate google app account instead.
[16:30] <BigRedS> hah. Right on cue I now can't log into this google apps doc thing
[17:01] <dogmatic69> what is the proper way to run a bash script?
[17:01] <dogmatic69> ./path/to/script or . path/to/script
[17:01] <bigcalm> Depends where you are and what you're doing
[17:01] <dogmatic69> hmm
[17:01] <bigcalm> If it's a file in the CWD: ./foo.sh
[17:02] <bigcalm> If it's in a sub-path: a/b/c/foo.sh
[17:02] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/940156834
[17:02] <bigcalm> ./ is optional
[17:02] <davmor2> dogmatic69: ./script or /moo/cow/script
[17:03] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: if it's to go in a cronjob, use the absolute path
[17:03] <dogmatic69> davmor2: thats the one, which is correct then, . path/to/script or just path/to/script
[17:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: Or you could do $ bash /path/to/script
[17:04] <dogmatic69> damn thing complaining about the then, and its copied from examples
[17:04] <JGJones> anyone develop apps for android?
[17:04] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: you have a problem with Apache not running?
[17:04] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: no its running
[17:04] <dogmatic69> just want to make sure it stays running
[17:05] <bigcalm> Well, it should unless you're dicking around with the system :)
[17:05] <davmor2> dogmatic69: you only need the . if you are in the directory you are running it from ie I am in /moo/cow so I run ./script (which say this directory)  you can run /moo/cow/script from anywhere
[17:05] <dogmatic69> k
[17:05] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: yip
[17:06] <dogmatic69> Syntax error: "then" unexpected (expecting "}") is the best i can get :/
[17:06] <bigcalm> Personally I wouldn't want a script to auto-restart Apache. I'd rather be informed that it had stopped then I would go and find out as to why and try to fix it from happening again
[17:06] <dogmatic69> that is the idea
[17:07] <dogmatic69> gonna write a email thing now
[17:07] <bigcalm> There are services that offer that
[17:07] <bigcalm> But, it's a good way to learn :)
[17:07] <dogmatic69> well that is the other idea too
[17:08] <dogmatic69> bashSkills++
[17:08] <JGJones> If anyone's interested...android dev wanted - http://twitter.com/#!/SignVideo/status/82801869826695169
[17:08] <dogmatic69> just cant do a simple if atm
[17:10] <bigcalm> JGJones: Ask Xalior in #lugradio
[17:10] <JGJones> bigcalm, ta, will do
[17:48] <davmor2> is anyone else wishing they had gone back to bed this morning?
[17:48] <bigcalm> Bit late for that now
[17:48] <bigcalm> 12 mins left to the day
[17:50] <davmor2> bigcalm: I'm on till 8pm
[17:54] <popey> davmor2: yes!
[17:56] <davmor2> just one of those days I think :(
[17:56] <popey> yeah
[18:05] <gord> i'v had a surprisingly pleasant day :P
[18:24] <ujjain> "He wanted to rid the NHS of inbalances". "How are people going to get to hospital?"... is this a play on the word inbalances?
[18:25] <dutchie> yes, it sounds like "ambulances"
[18:25] <ujjain> oh lol!!
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> It's called an impenetrable accent ;)
[18:26] <ujjain> hehehehe lol, that's pretty funny
[19:11] <cbx33> hey all
[19:11] <cbx33> my 11.04 has suddenly gotten much slower booting
[19:11] <cbx33> anyone think of a reason why
[19:12] <dwatkins> cbx33: nothing springs immediately to mind, but you might want to check your network settings, DHCP server, and run bootchart
[19:12] <dwatkins> also, filesystems mounted at start-up
[19:12] <cbx33> yeh none of that has changed
[19:12] <cbx33> so boot chart is going to be the only option I think
[19:12] <dwatkins> well, it should show where the wait is, but you might also be able to see it in the boot.log
[19:13]  * dwatkins checks he isn't talking nonsense
[19:13] <dwatkins> I am, it's the output of dmesg or /ar/log/dmesg
[19:13] <dwatkins> (the file boot.log is used in SLES, not Ubuntu, I suspect)
[19:14] <cbx33> ahh yeh
[19:14] <cbx33> lemme see
[19:15]  * dwatkins notes an 8-second gap in his between mounting the root filesystem and swap
[19:15] <cbx33> once I install bootchart do I just reboot then to see it?
[19:16] <dwatkins> I honestly can't remember, the documentation should say how it works - it probably just processes the dmesg file.
[19:16] <cbx33> hehe
[19:35] <czajkowski> popey: missing from over there --->
[19:40]  * Mez starts trying not to suffer from manic laughter
[19:45] <Mez> anyone ever done an interview by video conference?
[19:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: No I see him must just be you, you popey hater you
[19:46] <dwatkins> Mez: I was offered the option, but chose to go to the office instead
[19:47] <Mez> dwatkins: I've got sometime in the next 2 weeks 5 interviews ... 2 will be face to face - 3 will be video conference.
[19:47] <dwatkins> Videoconferencing saves loads of air-fares.
[19:48] <Mez> as the job is in Mountain View - yeah... just a little bit of air fares :D
[19:49] <zleap> Mez, nice thats in california right
[19:50] <Mez> yup.
[19:50] <dwatkins> I'd consider flying to California for an interview.
[19:50] <Mez> dwatkins: so would I - but I'd not be able to on my coin :)
[19:50] <shauno> heh, that'd be nice.  they've still got summer left. we're fresh out
[19:51] <dwatkins> Mez: I'd expect for my travel and accomodation costs to be paid
[19:53] <Mez> dwatkins: yes. However, If you were a company - what'd you rather do - send someone 130 miles, or send someone 5000 miles?
[19:54] <dwatkins> Mez: depends how badly I wanted them, I guess, and how much of a recruitment budget I had
[19:55] <Mez> £2k vs £80
[19:57] <dogmatic69_> o/
[19:58] <Mez> + accomodation
[20:03] <kvarley> Doing "tar jcvf archive.tar.bz2 /home/kvarley/Documents/folder" makes a tar.bz2 file but it makes it with home/kvarley/Documents within it. How can I make it so it just puts the folder within it?
[20:09] <jacobw> evening
[20:09] <ali1234> kvarley: tar -C /home/kvarley/Documents/ -jcvf folder
[20:11] <kvarley> ali1234: Where do I put the name for my tar.bz2 in that line?
[20:12] <ali1234> oh in the same place
[20:12] <ali1234> the point is tar makes an archive relative to the current directory
[20:12] <kvarley> ah ok so you specify the directory it will be relative to...clever...thanks ali1234 =)
[20:14] <kvarley> ali1234: tar -C /home/kvarley/Documents/ -jcvf archive.tar.bz2 myFolderName <--- that doesn't seem to work =/
[20:15] <Mez> tar -C /home/kvarley/Documents/myFolder -jcvf archive.tar.bz2
[20:16] <ali1234> kvarley: it works for me
[20:16] <ali1234> Mez: that doesn't work though
[20:16] <kvarley> Mez: tar -C /home/kvarley/Documents -jcvf archive.tar.bz2 <--- That returns "tar: Cowardly refusing to create an empty archive"
[20:17] <ali1234> kvarley: so what error did you get with mine?
[20:17] <kvarley> ali1234: The same
[20:18] <ali1234> then the folder doesn't exist or something
[20:18] <kvarley> ali1234: damnit...I'm such a noob lol
[20:18] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/629987/
[20:19] <kvarley> ali1234: I had a space somewhere
[20:19] <kvarley> ali1234: tar -C /home/kvarley/Documents -jcvf archive.tar.bz2 python <--- That works =)
[20:20] <ali1234> python has a really nice tarfile support where you can add a file with any archive name you want
[20:20] <ali1234> not really relevant but i thought i would mention it anyway
[20:42] <Mez> Also - is it me - or do yanks think that everywhere in england is London?
[20:46] <Azelphur> it's not you :P
[21:49] <fortiss> I'm running a web app on a ubuntu box and need a simple lock screen that acts like an iphone swipe to unlock lock screen. Its only to make sure if people were to brush up against it it wouldnt press buttons on the web app and that all buttons press on the web app are delibrate. It is a touchscreen with no KB. Any ideas?
[21:50] <fortiss> thanks in advance for any help!
[21:51] <popey> bah
[21:52] <jacobw> uh wut?
[21:52]  * popey stops /2
[21:52] <popey> bah
[21:59] <dwatkins> I guess we weren't quick enough for fortiss.
[22:02] <gord> it would be nice to have that kind of functionality though, or basically, a screen lock that doesn't require a password
[22:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Help Make Ensemble Rock: Formulas Needed - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/20/help-make-ensemble-rock-formulas-needed/
[22:32] <ali1234> argh ubuntu still behaves really weird if the disk gets full
[22:34] <jacobw> isn't that a property of unix in general?
[22:34] <ali1234> yeah i guess
[22:35] <ali1234> i mean it pops up warning when space is running low
[22:35] <ali1234> but it doesn't do anything when it hits 0
[22:35] <jacobw> what could it do?
[22:35] <ali1234> i dunno, pop up another warning?
[22:35] <ali1234> or warn when free space = 50mb instead of when it = 8gb
[22:36] <jacobw> after the ones you've ignored?
[22:36] <ali1234> i ignored it cos i still had 8gb free
[22:36]  * jacobw is playing devils advocate
[22:36] <jacobw> time for bed, night.
[23:00] <brobostigon> good night everyone,sleep well.
[23:01] <dwatkins> nn brobostigon
[23:01] <brobostigon> good night dwatkins
[23:19]  * dwatkins makes a note not to assume people he doesn't understand aren't speaking English