[03:54] !dmwaters:*! Hi all, I need to do some quick emergency maintenence on a server, this won't take long. 1700 users affected. it'll take about 30 seconds.
[03:38] <SteveA> daf: Do I need to update some tests?
[03:39] <lulu> elmo: mmm what?
[03:45] <carlos> hi
[03:46] <carlos> daf: did you touched anything from the patch I sent you or could I continue with it?
[03:46] <daf> carlos: I didn't touch it
[03:47] <carlos> ok
[03:47] <daf> I was really tired last night, seemingly
[03:47] <carlos> daf: How is going?
[03:47] <daf> how was your exam?
[03:47] <carlos> daf: well, I cannot tell you I passed it, but neither I could tell I didn't...
[03:47] <carlos> so...
[03:48] <daf> sounds like how I feel coming out of exams :)
[03:48] <carlos> no idea
[03:49] <carlos> daf: Which server will be used for betatesting?
[03:49] <carlos> rosetta.warthogs...?
[03:49] <daf> I suppose so
[03:49] <carlos> I think we should start feeding the database, it's not a fast process
[03:50] <carlos> daf: Do we have a list of projects that will be imported?
[03:50] <daf> nope
[03:52] <daf> it'll probably be best to start with ones which have already been imported into Arch, if possible
[03:52] <carlos> daf: Do we have them?
[03:52] <daf> what do you mean?
[03:53] <carlos> daf: I don't know anything about any imported project into arch already
[03:53] <daf> ah
[03:53] <daf> then we'd better ask somebody who knows
[03:53] <carlos> ok
[03:53] <daf> :)
[03:54] <daf> we have a couple of immediate obstables to overcome:
[03:54] <daf> Steve's authentication merge broke a few things
[03:55] <daf> well, mainly it was changing Rosetta to use some of the centralised database stuff
[03:55] <carlos> should I work on those task before resume my previous work?
[03:55] <daf> secondly, I've failed to work around this mysterious database error
[03:55] <daf> I'm discussing it with Steve, so don't worry about it for now
[03:55] <carlos> ok
[03:56] <carlos> which error?
[03:56] <daf> just so that you're aware of what's going on
[03:56] <daf> something to do with unindexable types, IIRC
[03:56] <daf> I can't fix that until we have the first problem fixed
[03:57] <carlos> then, you know the fix?
[04:00] <SteveA> let's talk about the beta test
[04:00] <SteveA> what exactly does it mean?
[04:02] <SteveA> daf: what do you have in mind?
[04:03] <carlos> I suppose will be some kind of usability test from "normal" users, and also a help to detect bugs we have when they try to "break" it
[04:03] <SteveA> Here are the things we have to choose from:
[04:04] <SteveA> * use a throw-away database, or the real database on emperor
[04:04] <SteveA> * allow only "trusted" people to access rosetta, or allow anyone to access it
[04:05] <SteveA> I think that's it.
[04:05] <daf> SteveA: I haven't really thought about it
[04:06] <daf> it was decided, at some point, that we would have a beta test
[04:06] <SteveA> let's think about it now.
[04:06] <daf> I don't belive what it would entail has ever been discussed
[04:06] <daf> ok
[04:06] <carlos> I don't think we should use the real database (yet), we are still doing some schema changes
[04:06] <daf> we have a list of participants
[04:07] <SteveA> so, we'll need a way of adding participants to the database as persons
[04:07] <daf> I suspet we'll want a mailing list for the participants and the Rosetta developers to use for discussion
[04:08] <SteveA> we can use the rosetta list for that, as all rosetta development discussion should be on the launchpad list now
[04:08] <daf> ok
[04:08] <daf> it's not a problem for rosetta list members to read the old archives, then?
[04:09] <SteveA> hmm, don't know
[04:09] <SteveA> otherwise, as jdub to set up a new list
[04:09] <SteveA> if we are to follow carlos' suggestion of not using the real database, then this should not really be called a "beta"
[04:09] <lulu> like we have sounders for Warty - can we not have Launchpad testers for the apps
[04:10] <SteveA> the expectation with a beta, such as the "google groups beta" and the "orkut beta" is that data will persist
[04:10] <carlos> I mean, mailing list and application at something.canonical.com
[04:10] <SteveA> so, what we are planning right now is not a beta
[04:10] <SteveA> what's the collective noun for "launchpads" ?
[04:11] <carlos> SteveA: ok, then, we could still use our own database and migrate the data to the production one later, after all schema changes are done
[04:11] <SteveA> I would rather avoid migrating data if we can.
[04:12] <SteveA> it would be cleaner if we can say "after date XXX the data will be cleared, and we'll start running it for real"
[04:12] <carlos> ok
[04:12] <SteveA> we could of course export pot and po files
[04:12] <SteveA> people can do this, and reimport them, right?
[04:13] <daf> yes
[04:13] <SteveA> So, today, I want us to define what our "rosetta beta" means, and maybe change the name if it doesn't match the generally expected meaning of "beta",
[04:13] <SteveA> then we need to make a list of all the things we need to do to get to doing what we've decided "beta" means.
[04:14] <SteveA> then we need to agree who will do each of those things.
[04:16] <SteveA> So far, we have: The Rosetta "alpha" is where we make the rosetta application available to our "launchpad sounders".  The database will be thrown away once we get to the rosetta "beta" stage.  The "beta" will use the live database on emperor.
[04:16] <SteveA> Will this be a "total rosetta" or an "ubuntu rosetta" ?
[04:17] <daf> the alpha?
[04:17] <SteveA> yes, the alpha
[04:17] <SteveA> let's call it an "alpha".
[04:17] <SteveA> that's what we're aiming for right now.
[04:17] <daf> I don't see any reason to restrict it to ubuntu
[04:18] <SteveA> so, the beta will be on rosetta.canonical.com ?
[04:18] <lulu> SteveA: at the moment, we will only have the Ubuntu packages in Rosetta. it's rosetta.ubuntulinux.org. It is the distro view of Rosetta
[04:19] <SteveA> in that case, the alpha should present the same view on rosetta
[04:19] <daf> lulu: why is this the case?
[04:20] <lulu> indeed. when we go live with www.ubuntulinux.org...and hopefully Rosetta will go live at the same time, it will be Ubuntu's Rosetta.
[04:20] <daf> lulu: there is no rosetta.ubuntulinux.org yet
[04:20] <lulu> daf: the website will be www. ubuntulinux.org
[04:20] <daf> we are still talking about the alpha, and I don't think that will be on ubuntulinux.org
[04:20] <SteveA> daf: that doesn't matter.  the point is that rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com should present the Ubuntu part of rosetta
[04:20] <daf> correct me if I'm wrong
[04:20] <daf> ok
[04:20] <SteveA> the alpha should be doing similar things to the beta
[04:21] <SteveA> except that the beta will be solid enough that we are happy with it writing to the main database
[04:21] <lulu> daf: the applications that will go live at the same time are Rosetta and Malone for Ubuntu. We are in the Ubuntu distro...
[04:22] <lulu> sorry - talking about when we go live....not testing....
[04:22] <SteveA> we do have another choice then.
[04:22] <daf> lulu: ok, but I thought that Rosetta was (eventually, at least) supposed to be for all free software
[04:23] <SteveA> either the alpha is for ubuntu only, or the alpha is rosetta as a whole.
[04:23] <daf> lulu: is there a reason that we're restricting it to Ubuntu packages for now?
[04:23] <SteveA> daf: this is what we plan for the first deployment of rosetta
[04:23] <lulu> daf: absolutely yes it will be global, but Mark wants it for Ubuntu first as a pilot phase for our own distro...
[04:24] <daf> ok, that wasn't clear to me before
[04:25] <carlos> either for me
[04:26] <SteveA> let's not drop everything to change scope now
[04:26] <lulu> guys...that's not good. Rosetta and Malone first launch is for the ubuntu distro. Mark wants to get it working for Ubuntu first.
[04:27] <lulu> it should not change scope - just will only have Ubuntu packages in Rosetta to begin with.
[04:27] <carlos> lulu: it's not a problem for me
[04:27] <daf> that's not a problem, but it just wasn't clear
[04:27] <SteveA> will the app need to look any different or work any different if it is just for ubuntu?
[04:27] <daf> I think I might have propagated that misunderstanding as I was speaking to beta testers
[04:28] <daf> I don't think it affects functionality
[04:28] <lulu> For global Rosetta, we need it's own standalone site don't we.....with it's own branding - a generic Rosetta for all
[04:28] <daf> it's a thing of managing expectations
[04:28] <carlos> same problem here, but that could be fixed when we send the mail about the alpha start
[04:29] <SteveA> let's check I understand this right.  the potfiles in ubuntu rosetta will be those from ubuntu linux.
[04:29] <carlos> SteveA: yes
[04:29] <SteveA> we will be manually putting these into the database -- there is no form to add a new product or project or effort
[04:29] <carlos> SteveA: there is a way to create projects from the website
[04:30] <SteveA> does it make sense to allow people to create projects on rosetta.ubuntulinux.org ?
[04:30] <carlos> the product and efforts part are easy to add because it works like the products page
[04:30] <carlos> SteveA: I don't think so
[04:31] <SteveA> then, that is an answer to my question "does the app need to look any different or work any different if it is just for ubuntu?"
[04:31] <daf> that depends on what we want rosetta.ubuntulinux.org to be
[04:31] <lulu> SteveA: you tell us.........won't the whole of Warty be in Arch. That's what Mark said - Daf would be the owner of all the Rosetta projects first, as he needs to add them to Rosetta manually.
[04:31] <daf> if it is "*the* Rosetta", then yes
[04:31] <daf> if not, then rosetta.ubuntulinux.org will be for Ubuntu stuff only, and we will have to have the main Rosetta at some other to-be-decided location
[04:32] <daf> and we will probably have to brand the r.u.o one differently to some extent
[04:32] <SteveA> the idea of rosetta.ZZZ.org is that it is for ZZZ stuff only
[04:32] <SteveA> rosetta.gnome.org is just for gnome translations
[04:32] <carlos> are we going to share the database between rosetta's installations? (I think we should)
[04:33] <SteveA> it is always the same database
[04:33] <SteveA> we have just one golden database
[04:34] <carlos> Then I suppose we will need a way to "filter" the projets/products/efforts so we only show the correct ones but It could be done later, after Ubuntu's Rosetta launch and before we launch other Rosetta site
[04:34] <SteveA> yes
[04:35] <SteveA> this will be done through the virtual hosting support
[04:36] <SteveA> so, rosetta.fedora.org receives the request /+index
[04:36] <SteveA> and the apache or squid proxy that listens as rosetta.fedora.org rewrites that as
[04:38] <SteveA>   http://macquarie.canonical.com:8085/++vh++http:rosetta.fedora.org/++/rosetta/efforts/fedora/+index
[04:38] <SteveA> or something similar
[04:39] <SteveA> (I have the syntax a bit wrong)
[04:39] <SteveA> so, the rosetta server knows that it is serving as http://rosetta.fedora.org
[04:39] <carlos> ok
[04:40] <SteveA> and it has /rosetta/efforts/fedora/ prepended to each requested path
[04:41] <daf> let's not worry about these technical details now
[04:41] <SteveA> in the "LaunchpadContext" object, it will tell you that you're trapped within the fedora effort
[04:41] <daf> let's focus on the alpha release
[04:43] <SteveA> daf: where are we up to?  what is "The alpha release" ?
[04:44] <daf> apparently, the alpha release consists of making a running copy of Rosetta on top of a temporary database containing information about Ubuntu packages available to a selected group of people
[04:46] <SteveA> ok.  What will these people be allowed to do?
[04:47] <daf> log in, look at all the pages, change their language preferences, submit translations
[04:47] <daf> (off the top of my head)
[04:47] <SteveA> does the software allow them to do anything more than this?
[04:48] <carlos> SteveA: create new projects
[04:48] <carlos> but we could block it
[04:48] <daf> which we would need to restrict
[04:49] <SteveA> so... that means we either remove the "new projects" pages altogether
[04:49] <daf> it deosn't really matter, since the database will be temporary
[04:49] <SteveA> or we need a way of identifying "sounders" vs "staff" in the database
[04:50] <daf> we will need to be able to set "Rosetta admin" priveleves on People eventually
[04:51] <daf> (or something finer grained)
[04:51] <daf> we could probably do this using labels
[04:51] <carlos> we could do it with Labels easily
[04:51] <carlos> :-P
[04:52] <SteveA> I think a DBSchema would be more appropriate here
[04:53] <SteveA> anyway, you said it doesn't really matter
[04:56] <SteveA> in which case, the alpha allows the sounders to create new projects
[04:58] <daf> that's not a requirement, just a coincidence
[04:59] <SteveA> we need to write down what the alpha will be like
[04:59] <SteveA> it is important that we write down that we will not be disabling the "add new project" pages
[05:00] <SteveA> and that we'll need to decide whether it is okay for the beta, or need some way of classifying users before the beta.
[05:00] <carlos> For ubuntu's rosetta it should be moved away from the normal user's options
[05:02] <SteveA> daf - action item: write a clear description of what the "rosetta alpha" will do, where it will run, how we will run it.
[05:05] <daf> where *will* it run?
[05:06] <SteveA> in the alpha, I imagine we'll want to fix bugs more or less as they are reported
[05:06] <SteveA> so, it must be on rosetta.warthogs
[05:07] <daf> ok
[05:07] <daf> what do you mean by "how we will run it"?
[05:08] <SteveA> what are the activities involved in running the alpha?  who will do them?
[05:08] <SteveA> do we need to add new projects and products?
[05:08] <SteveA> who will do it?
[05:08] <SteveA> how?
[05:08] <SteveA> do we need to add new participants as Persons?
[05:08] <SteveA> who will do it?
[05:08] <SteveA> how?
[05:08] <SteveA> how do participants get their passwords?
[05:09] <SteveA> vividly imagine the alpha running, then imagine the steps needed to get there
[05:09] <SteveA> each one needs to be written down, and understood
[05:14] <SteveA> daf: does this make sense?
[05:21] <SteveA> daf: hello?
[05:22] <carlos> SteveA: seems like it's away (looking at jabber's status)
[05:22] <carlos>  /s/it/he/
[05:22] <carlos> SteveA: If it helps.. it makes sense for me
[05:22] <SteveA> ok
[05:25] <daf> SteveA: yes, it makes sense
[05:25] <daf> sorry, I got called away
[05:26] <SteveA> good.
[05:27] <SteveA> can you take responsibility for producing this?
[05:27] <SteveA> then we can all review it when you're done.
[05:28] <daf> ok
[05:28] <SteveA> when can you do it?
[05:29] <daf> I could do it now
[05:29] <daf> I am anxious to fix other things, though
[05:30] <SteveA> I think it would be good to get this done today.
[05:30] <SteveA> even if it means pushing the other things back a bit.
[05:30] <SteveA> what do you think?
[05:31] <daf> concur
[05:31] <lulu> hi guys - just had a chat to Mark in SA
[05:32] <lulu> rosetta.ubuntulinux.org will be the Ubuntu translation effort.
[05:32] <lulu> mark is happy to have even the Ubuntu apps hardcoded on the front page with Welcome to Rosetta for Ubuntu....
[05:33] <lulu> we need to have the ability to translate the PO file for an application
[05:33] <lulu> this means we don't have to have all the plumbing available to set up and edit translation efforts.
[05:34] <lulu> but, someone can come into Ubuntus' rosetta and ask for a project to be translated - and that will be from that url
[05:35] <carlos> lulu: a project request form, right?
[05:35] <lulu> yup
[05:36] <lulu> the Global view of Rosetta.....could be at rosetta.shuttleworthfoundation.org/projects/$Project.name/$Product.name/POTemplate etc
[05:36] <carlos> SteveA: Where could I see some info about the login code you added?, My code is not working anymore because I need a way to login first...
[05:37] <lulu> what Mark wants to do is get Ubuntu's Rosetta up and running, and then rosetta. gnome.org, rosetta.mozilla.org - 5 or 6 who use rosetta for their project...
[05:37] <lulu> then we amalgamate them in the Global view of Rosetta
[05:37] <SteveA> carlos: let's talk about that after this meeting
[05:38] <carlos> SteveA: ok
[05:38] <carlos> lulu: perfect
[05:40] <daf> lulu: so people can request any project from the Ubuntu Rosetta?
[05:41] <lulu> Mark doesn't want t o stop people asking to be able to translate, as word will spread.
[05:41] <lulu> 15th September we launch with Ubuntu's rosetta, but meantime we are working on Rosetta's global view...- generic Rosetta for all free software.
[05:42] <carlos> lulu: September?
[05:42] <lulu> but for that - we need to have all the plumbing of translation efforts set up.
[05:43] <lulu> 15th September the website launches. Rosetta for Ubuntu - Phase 1 - translate an Ubuntu application in Rosetta, is due.
[05:44] <carlos> Hmm, Why did I thought the release date was the first week of October?
[05:45] <lulu> Daf, Carlos, SteveA, Lalo, Limi - Mark said at the conference he was keen to have Rosetta for Ubuntu up. Daf - we discussed this.
[05:46] <carlos> lulu: I know, If fact I also thought ubuntu official release was on october
[05:46] <lulu> ok - so can or can we not have the applications that are in Ubuntu translatable in Rosetta by the 15th September?
[05:47] <lulu> carlos: pre-release of Ubuntu is the 15th September. Official release is 15th October.
[05:47] <lulu> so we are aiming for those dates too.
[05:47] <carlos> lulu: ok
[05:47] <carlos> lulu: This schedule should not be a problem, we are almost there on feature implementation
[05:48] <lulu> daf: - when you did a status check last Thursday I asked you to write up on the wiki what we have done and what we still need to do.
[05:48] <SteveA> lulu: the bit of irc you missed: daf is going to work today on the list of all the things needed before we can release the alpha version of the rosetta service.
[05:49] <lulu> SteveA: ok - that was requested last week, but I appreciate people have been busy working on code. But, the purpose of it is to assist us in knowing what the goals are and how close/far we are away from it.
[05:50] <SteveA> with that list, we'll be in a position to answer the question "when can we have the alpha"
[05:50] <SteveA> note that we're intending to throw away the database after the alpha period.  but, pot and po data can be exported and re-imported
[05:52] <lulu> SteveA: good. Ok - so after Daf has donme the list, we can assess if the 15th September realistic to get Rosetta for Ubuntu up and running. But, without sufficient time for testing....it's tight.
[05:53] <lulu> Daf: once we know where we are, let's have a look and perhaps we need to manage expectations and shift the deadline...
[05:53] <lulu> daf?
[05:54] <carlos> lulu: well, the list daf is working on is more about the sounders "procedure" than the missing parts in Rosetta, the list of missing parts in Rosetta is already done since last week but it's not at the wiki (yet)
[05:54] <daf> I think I'm having trouble managing this as a time-based (rather than feature-based) release process
[05:54] <SteveA> the document daf is working on should cover the following:
[05:54] <SteveA> * what we mean by "rosetta alpha"
[05:55] <SteveA> * what software / database gets deployed where
[05:55] <SteveA> * who may use it
[05:55] <SteveA> * what they may do
[05:55] <SteveA> * what data we are / are not saving
[05:55] <SteveA> * who does the "by hand" administrative tasks, and how
[05:55] <SteveA> also
[05:55] <SteveA> * what we need to add to rosetta to be able to do the above
[05:59] <lulu> daf: yes - that is hard to get one's head around time based releases, but for a given date, we set the features we will release and make sure that there are no bugs in it.
[06:00] <lulu> even if we have less features/basic requirements, but they work well.
[06:00] <lulu> ok - looking fwd to the list and then we can make decisions....
[06:00] <daf> sure, but we are perpetually slipping on our targets
[06:03] <lulu> daf: it seems that there's been misunderstandings on what targets we are supposed to meet in terms of time and functionality. so, if we can pin it down now, we can work to it.
[06:04] <lulu> don't despair :o) onwards and upwards!
[06:05] <SteveA> carlos: I'd like to take 10 mins break, but then can we talk about your question from earlier?
[06:05] <carlos> SteveA: sure
[06:06] <carlos> thanks
[06:16] <daf> will alpha testers be able to see the Malone/Soyuz stuff?
[06:18] <daf> https://www.warthogs.hbd.com/RosettaAlpha <-- initial revision up
[06:19] <SteveA> daf: do we want them to do so?
[06:19] <SteveA> that's another question for your document
[06:19] <daf> I don't know
[06:19] <SteveA> if we don't, we may need to do some work to stop them doing so
[06:19] <daf> would it potentially negative consequences if they could?
[06:20] <SteveA> also, should we be using a separate launchpad instance and database from our devel server?
[06:20] <carlos> I don't think they should see the other projects
[06:20] <daf> I think it only makes a difference if the Rosetta Alpha Launchpad instance doesn't have Malone and Soyuz
[06:20] <daf> because then we would be depriving the Malone/Soyuz guys of a development server
[06:21] <lulu> SteveA: when we have a staging server for all the apps - will we not have a launchpad login, and a rosetta login, malone login, soyuz login.
[06:21] <lulu> should we not have all the apps on the same dev server too?
[06:21] <daf> lulu: if you go to rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com now, you can see Rosetta, Soyuz and Malone
[06:21] <daf> lulu: the question is whether this is appropriate for our alpha testers
[06:22] <SteveA> daf: we can't just update the alpha server every half hour
[06:22] <lulu> so this perhaps should be renamed to launchpad.warthogs.hbd.com
[06:22] <SteveA> daf: the alpha server and our development server fulfil different goals
[06:23] <daf> then they should be separate
[06:23] <daf> the fact that "rosetta" is a machine name is confusing
[06:24] <lulu> can we rename it to launchpad?
[06:24] <SteveA> we can ask elmo about running the alpha on some domain name we'd like
[06:24] <SteveA> what will it be eventually?
[06:24] <SteveA> rosetta.ubuntulinux.org ?
[06:24] <daf> lulu: we could, but it would be better to name it to something not related to what the software is called
[06:25] <lulu> SteveA: rosetta.ubuntulinux.org  - correct for the distro view of Rosetta.
[06:25] <daf> "eventually" depenends on the outcome of the ubuntu.org negotiations
[06:25] <SteveA> then, it should be on port 80 of some machine called "rosetta.whatever"
[06:26] <SteveA> so, rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com is okay
[06:26] <daf> we could vhost launchpad.w.h.c on the same machine, perhaps
[06:26] <SteveA> we can get elmo to add devel.warthogs.hbd.com as an alias for rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com
[06:26] <SteveA> and get to our development server there
[06:27] <carlos> sounds good for me
[06:27] <lulu> SteveA: good idea Steve
[06:28] <SteveA> daf: be sure to write all this up.  getting elmo to do the domain stuff, and the apache config on rosetta.w.h.c is one of the tasks we need to do before being able to release an alpha
[06:28] <SteveA> also changing the development server configs
[06:28] <SteveA> and scripts
[06:30] <lulu> James said we may have new machines up by the beginning of next week...i.e. we may soon have a staging server too!
[06:30] <SteveA> carlos: I'll be back in a few minutes
[06:30] <carlos> ok
[06:31] <carlos> I have also some questions about the interface changes you did
[06:31] <carlos> Well, it's only one question :-)
[06:35] <justdave> heh, figures...  I added some table definitions to database/malone.py on Friday because I needed them for stuff I was working on.  star-merged today, and someone else (probably stub) added the same tables since then. :)
[06:36] <justdave> now to figure out how I tell which ones are his so I keep the right ones (I'll keep his instead of mine)
[06:38] <carlos> justdave: tla changes --diffs should show you stub's changes
[06:38] <justdave> yeah, it does.  doesn't show me mine though.  I'd basically like to back out my previous changeset to that file only.
[06:40] <carlos> justdave: I don't know the exact commands with tla, but you could use https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/archzoom to get a concrete version of one file
[06:41] <justdave> looking at my change logs, it looks like the changes to that file were committed as a single changeset with only that change.
[06:41] <justdave> so I could back out the entire changeset easily enough.
[06:42] <daf> justdave: I would do this:
[06:43] <daf>  - tla get the previous revision
[06:43] <daf>  - copy the file into your working tree
[06:43] <daf>  - commit
[06:43] <daf>  - delete the temporary checkout
[06:44] <daf> (by step 2, I mean copy the file in question from the temporary tree into the working tree)
[06:44] <SteveA> carlos: hi
[06:44] <carlos> SteveA: hi
[06:45] <carlos> You changed the Interface IRosettaProject to this: class IRosettaProject(IRosettaStats, doap.IProject):
[06:45] <SteveA> ok
[06:46] <carlos> SteveA: Is there any problem to do the same with the other classes that have the same methods defined in IRosettaStats?
[06:46] <justdave> heh, I love revision libs.  new checkout took all of 10 seconds because I already had it cached. :)
[06:46] <carlos>  /s/to do/if we do/
[06:47] <carlos> I suppose it should not be a problem, but you did not changed the other classes, that's why I'm asking
[06:47] <SteveA> I didn't change the other classes because I was working just on project.
[06:47] <SteveA> which other types are we talking about?
[06:48] <carlos> IProduct, IPOTemplate and IEffort
[06:49] <carlos> and ICategory
[06:49] <carlos> IEffort is not correct, it's ITranslationEffort
[06:50] <SteveA> as a first step, we can make IPOTemplate extend IRosettaStats
[06:50] <SteveA> and likewise for the others
[06:50] <carlos> well, and IPOTemplate does not have the messageCount method because it's served with the __len__ one but I suppose it's not a problem if we implement the other one that just returns len(self)
[06:51] <SteveA> as a second step, some of this functionality needs to be moved to canonical.database
[06:51] <carlos> ok
[06:52] <carlos> in time for the phase1 release?
[06:53] <SteveA> yes
[06:53] <SteveA> I'll be doing most of that, though
[06:54] <carlos> ok, then I will do the first step only, right?
[06:54] <SteveA> yes
[06:54] <SteveA> all that is involved is simplifying interfaces
[06:55] <carlos> ok
[06:55] <SteveA> you were also asking about logging in users
[06:55] <SteveA> I think
[06:55] <carlos> now, about the login/session part. Where could I see the interface we have to work with it?
[06:56] <carlos> I need to implement a template that let's the user log in the system
[06:56] <carlos> and other to update their preferences
[06:58] <SteveA> the template that lets a user log into the system for now will be a page at rosetta/+login
[06:58] <SteveA> the page requires a permission other than zope.Public to view
[06:58] <SteveA> so, it will cause the basic authentication dialog to appear
[06:59] <carlos> automatically?
[06:59] <SteveA> on a successful login, the user will be redirected to the path given in the query string, or if none is given, the rosetta front page.
[06:59] <carlos> I mean, I don't need to implement the authentication dialog?
[06:59] <SteveA> no
[06:59] <carlos> nice
[07:00] <SteveA> no need to implement the authentication dialog
[07:00] <carlos> then, what should appear inside the rosetta/+login template?
[07:01] <SteveA> I'll write that template.
[07:01] <SteveA> eventually, when we get cookie authentication, there will be a login form
[07:01] <SteveA> someone else can write that
[07:01] <SteveA> but we're using HTTP Basic auth for now
[07:01] <carlos> ok
[07:02] <SteveA> I will add the +login page today
[07:02] <carlos> so, until you write that template, how could I force the login dialog to appear?, change all pages that requiere authentication from zope.Public to zope.Private or something like that?
[09:39] <justdave> am I correct in assuming that I don't need to be on the soyuz mailing list anymore?  soyuz was originally the umbrella (what launchpad is now) which is why I subscribed to it, but soyuz seems to be just one of the components of launchpad now
[09:39] <SteveA> right
[09:39] <SteveA> launchpad is now the umbrella
[09:39] <SteveA> the platform
[09:39] <SteveA> to reverse the analogy


[01:02] <Paladine> jphillip, I just fitted the pvr 250 into the thin client I think with a little bit of cosmetic modding I can fit the 2.5" HDD in between the chassis and the case keeping it away from the PCI card and avoiding heat issues in the process
[01:13] <Hal_Emmerich> No I didn't Fox
[03:06] <Bob24> hello
[03:08] <Bob24> for some reason all my videos on my mythbuntu installation are out of sync when i play them. What could be causing this?
[03:19] <Bob24> for some reason all my videos on my mythbuntu installation are out of sync when i play them. What could be causing this?
[03:58] <oobe> Bob24, maybe you broke the space and time continuum
[05:31] <RobertLaptop> what hardware providers network recorder?
[05:32] <RobertLaptop> or does it allow for some from of content on the network?
[06:12] <mib_3b1qve> hey all
[06:13] <mib_3b1qve> I hear a lot of people recommend a mce remote with myth, but does that still mean a keyboard is required, if not, how would I be able to do some light gaming (web based games or mario type games)
[06:13] <mib_3b1qve> I was originally thinking about foregoing a remote for a keyboard with built in trackball
[07:31] <insta> hey guys ... i just installed mythbuntu, and pointed the media app at my video directory.  i have about 200 pre-ripped movies that don't have cover art or IMDB information.  any way i can 'batch' those?
[08:54] <rojo> anything special needed to tune digital cable radio channels?  My channel scanner detects a bunch of channels from 73#1 to 73#50, each of which freezes mythtv for a few moments then results in "Error was encountered while displaying video.  Return to menu."
[08:54] <rojo> I have a pcHDTV 5500 tuner card fwiw
[10:30] <dinamic> anyone here?
[10:31] <dinamic> i have 2 questions..
[10:31] <dinamic> i installed a test enviroment of 8.10
[10:31] <dinamic> backend and a diskless server setup..
[10:32] <dinamic> first thing that didnt worked out was when i in the mcc added the dhcp server service
[10:32] <dinamic> it never started the dhcp server
[10:32] <dinamic> i read the docs and checked out the mentioned /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf
[10:32] <dinamic> the ltsp directory didnt exists..
[10:33] <dinamic> added it and copied an example config from ltsp and got the dhcp service work as expected
[10:34] <dinamic> i booted the frontend over network succesfully..
[10:34] <dinamic> the other thing is when i wanted to listen to music the entries in the playlist are there..
[10:35] <dinamic> but not the filesystem under /var/lib/mythtv/ that is expected should be mounted over nfs to the backendservers exports..
[10:35] <dinamic> i had to edit the backends servers /etc/exports for those directories and edit the frontend image to mount those directories..
[10:36] <dinamic> whe  frontend started the mount failed because it timed out waiting for eth0 to come ready..
[10:37] <dinamic> i checked thru the init scripts and noticed the the eth0 interface wasn't set to auto in the /etc/network/interfaces so if-up.d/mountnfs script didnt execute..
[10:37] <dinamic> added eth0 to auto in interface's file and it mounts like a charm..
[10:38] <dinamic> so.. this might be some changes for further releases to make it more troublesome to get it working..
[10:38] <dinamic> cheers :)
[13:17]  * Yagisan sticks his head in and wishes everyone a happy new year - before running out to continue drinking
[15:58] <Skydiver12481> moin moin
[16:00] <Skydiver12481> how can i install pad2key patch for the new mythbuntu
[16:23] <tatters> Enabled backports in aptitude ran update, upgrade, now myth TV playback is jittery, pressing u to change playback speed fixes problem after getting back to normal speed,
[16:24] <tatters> anyone know of this issue have a fix?
[16:42] <Skydiver12481> hi need help
[17:43] <SHADOW__X> hello everybody\
[17:44] <SHADOW__X> while runing mythtv sometimes the menus become unresponsive for a random amount of time then comes back
[17:45] <SHADOW__X> the system is a amd x2 2350 2 gigs of ddr 2 800 ram 750 gig hd geforce 6150 integrated mythbuntu 8.10 mythtv .21
[17:59] <SHADOW__X> hey superm1 will a new mythtv package be hitting the mythbuntu repos aytme
[18:04] <jeremy> hello, i need some help getting LCD and remote working
[18:05] <jeremy> i have an Antec MicroFusion 350 case. I followed the step-by-step directions on codeka to recompile lirc and lcdproc but it seems like the driver (lirc_imon) does recognize the device
[18:06] <jeremy> lsusb shows "SoundGraph, Inc" but makes no mention of iMON
[18:08] <jeremy> there is no /dev/lcd0 or /dev/usb/lcd0 and dmesg does not suggest that the device is recognized
[18:09] <laga> SHADOW__X: yeah. soon... hopefully
[18:10] <SHADOW__X> well thats good to hear
[18:31] <jeremy> nevermind, found what  i need
[20:27] <RobertLaptop> SHADOW__X if you are still there.  I have that issue with the menus becoming unresponsive it happens when my master backend get taxed.  I just bough a new box to replace my master backend to fix.
[21:09] <dvhart> it was suggested on mythtv-users that I ask here for help using mythbuntu packages, rather than those shipping with basic intrepid, as I'm hitting some bugs apparently fixed in MuthBuntu
[21:09] <dvhart> I'm only seeing iso images on the downloads page
[21:09] <dvhart> is it possible to upgrade my existing intrepid mythtv install without reinstalling the entire system?
[21:17] <dvhart> ok just found "add to ubuntu" so I'm trying that.  had to install vncserver to use the magic link... a simple list of the apt sources lines would be nice for those of us with primarily ssh access to the system.
[21:36] <dvhart> I've installed mythbuntu on intrepid using the "add to ubuntu" method, and I don't appear to have changed the mythbackend version.  According to someone on mythtv-users I should be looking for:
[21:36] <dvhart> MythTV Version   : 19222
[21:36] <dvhart> MythTV Branch    : branches/release-0-21-fixes
[21:36] <dvhart> but I'm still seeing:
[21:36] <dvhart> MythTV Version   : 18722
[21:36] <dvhart> correct branch though
[22:12] <MythbuntuGuest62> Does anyone know when the Weekly Builds (especially for Fixes) will start working again?  US mirror is way behind and UK mirror has not been update for quite some time and then only some packages?
[22:31] <dvhart> heh, the weekly builds seems to be the hot question
[22:31] <dvhart> maybe a post in /topic once someone knows the answer?
[23:48] <chiques> Hello Everyone.
[23:48] <chiques> Can someone tell me why the Front End Mythtv setup wants to connect to some account that I have not set up?
[23:48] <chiques> I have Ubuntu 8.10


[00:00] <daftykins> the cat command?
[00:00] <leolol> ok
[00:00] <leolol> no
[00:00] <leolol> the dhclient
[00:00] <daftykins> oh, did ctrl+c not get you back?
[00:01] <leolol> it did
[00:01] <leolol> but i tried it again
[00:01] <daftykins> ah ok
[00:01] <daftykins> yeah i don't think that one will help
[00:02] <leolol> it tells me: No such file or directory
[00:02] <daftykins> is it typed ok?
[00:02] <daftykins> cat /etc/network/interfaces
[00:02] <leolol> i'm checking
[00:02] <leolol> oh there's a space i missed
[00:03] <daftykins> by the way, saving these commands in a notepad file on your windows PC is a great way to make a 'cheat sheet' to learn from :)
[00:03] <leolol> yeah it has info in there
[00:03] <leolol> adress is wrong
[00:03] <daftykins> does it have many lines after 'auto eth0' ?
[00:03] <daftykins> ok :)
[00:03] <leolol> network too.. it's all my internet IP
[00:03] <leolol> gateway too
[00:03] <daftykins> cool
[00:03] <daftykins> so, what we want to do is edit those values to ones that will work
[00:03] <leolol> broadcast is also, just the last 3 digits are different (255 instead of 100)
[00:04] <daftykins> ok so you're going to use your first CLI text editor :O
[00:04] <leolol> good or bad? :P
[00:04] <daftykins> type 'sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces'
[00:04] <daftykins> good, exciting! :D
[00:04] <leolol> let me get something to drink :P
[00:04] <daftykins> i'm on beer #2
[00:04] <daftykins> i recommend this
[00:04] <daftykins> :>
[00:06] <leolol> i'm on loud music and water :P
[00:06] <leolol> you helped me more then ubuntuforums in 4 days lol
[00:06] <daftykins> XD
[00:07] <leolol> lets do this :D
[00:07] <daftykins> happy to help the first steps \o/
[00:07] <daftykins> i'm not all that experienced but i know the basics of CLI
[00:07] <leolol> like a toddler
[00:07] <leolol> :P
[00:07] <daftykins> ja baby steps ^_^
[00:08] <leolol> if i can do anything for you (i'm a graphic designer) just email me at felix.wenzl[at] gmail[dot]com
[00:09] <daftykins> oooo
[00:09] <daftykins> do you make logos for companies at all?
[00:09] <leolol> and btw those 1u rack servers are damn loud. lol
[00:09] <daftykins> haha yeah they are
[00:09] <leolol> i make a good amount of corporate identity yeah
[00:09] <daftykins> sweet :) thanks
[00:10] <leolol> help for help :)
[00:10] <leolol> so let's continue :D
[00:11] <daftykins> wow i added you in my gmail and it auto grabbed a Google+ pic
[00:11] <daftykins> ok, so now you should be inside 'nano' the text editor
[00:11] <daftykins> and looking at the contents of that configuration file
[00:11] <daftykins> you can use your cursor keys to move around to the lines that are wrong
[00:12] <penguin42> leolol: 1u servers aren't as loud as either 1) a rack full of 1u servers or  2) 4u servers
[00:12] <leolol> yeah google+ lol
[00:12] <daftykins> so, i'm guessing you should have 'address' 'netmask' and 'gateway'
[00:12] <leolol> how do i get into nano??
[00:12] <leolol> yeah i see those
[00:12] <daftykins> type 'sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces'
[00:12] <daftykins> you want 'gateway' to be <IP_ADDRESS>, netmask to be '<IP_ADDRESS>'
[00:13] <daftykins> and 'address' you kind of get to pick - i'd recommend '<IP_ADDRESS>'
[00:13] <daftykins> nice and memorable
[00:13] <daftykins> hopefully nothing is already using that address on the network...
[00:13] <leolol> nope can't do that.. it just gets me to my last used command
[00:14] <leolol> tried that
[00:14] <leolol> but ut always opens a new command line beginning
[00:14] <daftykins> the sudo nano line?
[00:14] <leolol> *it
[00:15] <leolol> i type that cat /... etc. and i get the result, but i always makes a new line with felix@server
[00:15] <leolol> so i can't choose the things that i just got
[00:15] <daftykins> yeah 'cat' just spits out the contents of the file
[00:15] <leolol> ok
[00:15] <daftykins> sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces
[00:15] <leolol> so i gotta access it
[00:15] <daftykins> ^ that opens the file with nano
[00:15] <leolol> ah ok
[00:15] <leolol> facepalm #3
[00:16] <daftykins> it also uses 'sudo' because we need to have the Linux equivalent of 'administrator' rights to edit this file :)
[00:16] <leolol> ok
[00:16] <leolol> so i start editing it
[00:17] <daftykins> yep
[00:17] <daftykins> you want 'gateway' to be <IP_ADDRESS>, netmask to be '<IP_ADDRESS>', address to be '<IP_ADDRESS>'
[00:18] <leolol> now i need network, adress and broadcast
[00:18] <daftykins> those actually won't be necessary
[00:18] <diddledan_> network and broadcast can be deleted or set to .0 and .255 respectively
[00:18] <daftykins> well, address was
[00:18] <daftykins> i'd put a # symbol in front of the network and broadcast
[00:18] <leolol> yeah got adress
[00:19] <leolol> ok
[00:19] <leolol> both to .0?
[00:19] <daftykins> one sec i'll pastebin an example just so we're 100% ok
[00:20] <daftykins> http://pastebin.com/Fg3sQd1Z
[00:20] <daftykins> there you go i sort of just copied mine and edited it as an example to how yours should look
[00:20] <daftykins> it shouldn't matter what order the lines are in
[00:21] <leolol> x.x.x. or just .0?
[00:21] <daftykins> with the # at the start of the lines, we're telling it 'ignore this line' so it doesn't matter :)
[00:21] <daftykins> you could put 'broadcast BEER' and it won't care :D
[00:22]  * daftykins broadcasts beer to diddledan_
[00:22] <leolol> ah ok thought so
[00:22] <diddledan_> \o/
[00:22] <leolol> wht kinda beer btw? :D
[00:22] <leolol> *what
[00:23] <daftykins> i'm just drinking some horrible stuff a friend left at my house
[00:23] <daftykins> Fosters :(
[00:23] <daftykins> normally i like ales
[00:23] <diddledan_> "good call" "huru"
[00:23] <diddledan_> I asked an aussie friend whether she knew the term huru and she'd never heard of it
[00:23] <leolol> ales are the brigher colored ones?
[00:24] <daftykins> i like dark ales 8)
[00:24] <leolol> not familiar with the english terms for beer
[00:24] <daftykins> schwarz ale 8D
[00:24] <leolol> ok
[00:24] <daftykins> leolol: so once you're happy, press ctrl + X to save
[00:24] <leolol> like a dark ale is a bit strnger then a regular beer? (not talking about those light light light american beers)
[00:25] <daftykins> yeah strong with a specific taste
[00:25] <leolol> what should i change the dns nameserver too?
[00:25] <daftykins> oh it's got more
[00:25] <daftykins> <IP_ADDRESS> as well
[00:25] <leolol> yeah we got awesome beer in austria :)
[00:26] <daftykins> interesting...
[00:26] <daftykins> do you have any local ale events?
[00:26] <leolol> i think isaved it
[00:27] <leolol> mhmm in vienna for sure
[00:27] <leolol> but also in the countryside
[00:27] <daftykins> yeah it should have asked you Y/N/cancel
[00:27] <daftykins> so Y for yes of course
[00:27] <daftykins> then it asks to confirm the file name
[00:27] <leolol> a restaurant i go topretty often when i'm visiting family
[00:27] <leolol> has like 40 beers
[00:27] <leolol> i confirmed
[00:27] <daftykins> "File Name to Write: interfaces"
[00:27] <daftykins> then you just hit enter
[00:28] <daftykins> then you're out and back at the prompt yep?
[00:28] <daftykins> 40 beers :O sounds great
[00:28] <leolol> yiha
[00:28] <daftykins> i love trying new ales
[00:28] <leolol> out of that notepad thingy too
[00:28] <daftykins> cool
[00:28] <daftykins> so now we want to tell it to reconfigure the network interface with those new values
[00:28] <leolol> from dark, to bright everything :D
[00:28] <leolol> one's called "deer beer" :P
[00:29] <daftykins> 'sudo service networking restart' should do it
[00:29] <leolol> ok
[00:29] <daftykins> hehehe
[00:29] <leolol> so what command? :)
[00:29] <leolol> ok
[00:29] <leolol> it isn't scrolling automatically here..
[00:29] <daftykins> i think it's 'networking', might be 'network'
[00:29] <daftykins> did it go off the bottom of the screen?
[00:31] <leolol> one says unknown instance (netowkring)
[00:31] <leolol> and the other one says unrcognized service
[00:31] <daftykins> hrmmph
[00:31] <leolol> the website?
[00:31] <leolol> yeah it's not auto scrlooing
[00:32] <leolol> scrolling
[00:32] <daftykins> so when you type new commands is it just becoming unreadable?
[00:32] <daftykins> i'm not sure i understand what's happening
[00:32] <leolol> no
[00:32] <leolol> i can read it
[00:33] <daftykins> ok instead of above, try 'sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart'
[00:33] <leolol> talking about the website here not ubuntu
[00:33] <leolol> :)
[00:33] <daftykins> oh ok
[00:34] <leolol> it is reconfiguring the interfaces
[00:34] <daftykins> sweet
[00:34] <daftykins> ping <IP_ADDRESS> should work now :O
[00:34] <leolol> ok
[00:34] <leolol> it says
[00:35] <leolol> running /etc/init.d/networking restart is deprecated because it may not enable again some interfaces
[00:35] <leolol> dono if that's normal
[00:35] <leolol> ^^
[00:35] <daftykins> yeah, that's ok, it's basically saying 'daftykins doesn't know the real command, he's a BAD person'
[00:35] <leolol> ok i try that
[00:36] <leolol> nope
[00:36] <leolol> it had something with <IP_ADDRESS> but now it is on .100 and says unreachable
[00:37] <daftykins> do you have a smartphone / camera you can take pictures of the screen with and upload to imgur.com or some similar site?
[00:37] <leolol> noep nothing
[00:37] <leolol> sure
[00:37] <daftykins> if you type 'ifconfig -a'
[00:37] <daftykins> then take a picture please
[00:37] <leolol> you got skype?
[00:38] <daftykins> yep
[00:38] <leolol> i could point a webcam at what i do
[00:38] <daftykins> sounds good \o/
[00:38] <daftykins> <-- username
[00:38] <leolol> added
[00:50] <daftykins> he wasn't joking
[00:50] <daftykins> it's loud ^_^
[03:35] <daftykins> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-035-OC
[03:35] <daftykins> 100GB 'SATA 2' SSD for £49.99 inc
[03:35] <ali1234> nice
[03:36] <ali1234> you can get 1TB HDD for same price now too
[03:36] <ali1234> seems the prices are finally starting to drop again
[03:37] <ball> ...and there's me juggling files to free up space on a 20G PATA drive.
[03:37] <ali1234> haha
[03:37] <daftykins> oh hey ball. long time no see
[03:38] <daftykins> you were penguin42's partner in crime for running ancient hardware right? :D
[03:38] <ali1234> i spent the last two days juggling files across about 3TB of total space so i could image a 500GB drive for recovery
[03:38] <ball> Probably :-)
[03:38] <ali1234> and then it turned out to be the wrong drive anyway
[03:38] <daftykins> you know, HD films make saturated gigabit LAN feel slow :(
[08:09] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:37] <bigmonkey> irc.UK-IRC.net
[09:21] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:27] <MooDoo> morning
[09:28] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[09:43] <knightwise> hey brobostigon
[09:43] <brobostigon> morning knightwise
[12:27] <first-time-here> hi
[12:27] <first-time-here> i cant do "cat /dev/video0" i get "cat: /dev/video0: Invalid argument"
[12:31] <penguin42> I'm not sure what the mechanisms for reading video are - not all devices have to respond to normal read/writes
[12:33] <penguin42> first-time-here: The package 'motion' is a way that has worked for me for recording video easily before
[12:34] <first-time-here> penguin42: i want to make stream of my webcam
[12:34] <AndreAM> hello! it's me again. is there anyone who would know how to fix this please: http://askubuntu.com/questions/299789/experiencing-problems-while-trying-to-upgrade-to-pangolin
[12:39] <AlanBell> hi AndreAM I would definitely go for a reinstall, without overwriting the home directory - and backup first
[12:39] <penguin42> first-time-here: Yeh, I used motion to do that
[12:40] <penguin42> first-time-here: Also try guvcview
[12:41] <AlanBell> or vlc, you can stream a webcam with vlc
[14:22] <MartijnVdS> you can stream anything with vlc :)
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> is it june yet?
[15:31] <SuperEngineer> boo!
[15:35] <daftykins> waaa D:
[15:43] <MartijnVdS> eeee!
[15:46] <daftykins> ^_^
[15:48] <SuperEngineer> so cool to have a 3 day break instead of working [what seems like] most weekends as as weekdays :)
[15:49] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I've had 2 weeks (+ 2 days) off, have to work again on Monday :|
[15:49] <daftykins> :D
[15:50] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: Monday?  tell them it's a bank hol in UK and to be politically coorect you need to observe it!
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: nah we had one last Monday.. and the thursday the week before that
[15:50] <SuperEngineer> lucky whatits#
[15:51] <SuperEngineer> *whatsits
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: blame it on the Catholics ;)
[15:51] <SuperEngineer> :)
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> ascension day and "the day after pentecost"
[15:52] <SuperEngineer> "the day after pentecost"???
[15:52] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yeah we extend easter and pentecost by one day, so you get the Monday off work
[15:52] <MartijnVdS> it's our version of your bank holidays really
[15:52] <SuperEngineer> typical - to laid back to do it on the day ;)
[15:52] <MartijnVdS> but more catholic
[15:54] <daftykins> guys, i was asked to help out with this person doing an EFI install of ubuntu 13.04
[15:54] <daftykins> apparently 12.04 worked fine in the past
[15:55] <daftykins> i noticed from repeated questioning and experimentation that, in their two drive setup, the intended boot drive (an SSD) is attached to a Marvell 6Gb SATA controller, whilst the 3TB storage drive is attached to the 3Gb SATA ports provided by the intel chipset
[15:56] <daftykins> warning bells go off for me for mixing SATA controller, i'd rather have had the SSD on the intel provided 6Gb SATA not the external Marvell controller
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> that might be the problem.. shouldn't be, but might be
[15:56] <daftykins> any thoughts?
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> I'd put it on the intel and try again
[15:56] <daftykins> apparently 13.04 installs, but at boot time GRUB says something like 'no such partition'
[15:57] <daftykins> yeah - i was having a hard time convincing this person to feel up to touching the hardware ;x
[15:57] <daftykins> based on the very acceptable view that 'it worked with 12.04'
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> well yes
[15:57] <daftykins> although of course kernel support for the different controllers could be what's going wrong
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> maybe the system is confused (or the EFI partition is confused?)
[15:58] <daftykins> yeah, there is a total GPT/MBR headache going on too
[15:58] <daftykins> i want the 3TB disk to be disconnected completely for the install
[15:58] <daftykins> so that the SSD is there on its' own
[15:58] <daftykins> because throughout the whole thing (i'm like the 4th person getting involved or something) the SSD has been sdb
[15:59] <daftykins> i tend to be pretty perfectionist about all OS installs, you'd never get me allowing my OS drive to be anything other than the primary
[16:03] <MartijnVdS> it should not be a problem
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> as long as the 3TB disk doesn't have an EFI partition (and the SSD does)
[16:04] <daftykins> apparently the 3TB is GPT'd also - it has evidence of having had Windows on it before
[16:04] <daftykins> and the 3 partition setup
[16:07] <MartijnVdS> 3TB has to be GPT, I think? because MBR only supports up to 2TB?
[16:07] <daftykins> yep
[16:07] <MartijnVdS> but GPT isn't the issue, the EFI boot partition is
[16:07] <daftykins> i'd rather run the install with just the SSD connected just to rule it out personally
[16:07] <MartijnVdS> if both disks have EFI partitions, one with "old" 12.04 grub, one with "new" 13.04 grub, it'll probably confuse itself
[16:08] <daftykins> yeah that's the other thing, we don't 100% know the 'state' of each disk
[16:08] <MartijnVdS> Time to break out the backup disks and wipe before reinstalling ;)
[16:08] <daftykins> the Asus motherboard's boot options refer to the Windows Loader being present, so there might be remnants of a Windows 7/8 install on the 3TB i think
[16:08] <daftykins> hehe, yeah apparently the SSD is easily nuked
[16:08] <daftykins> so that should make some of it easy
[16:09] <daftykins> i was almost tempted, in googling about, to ask them to run this: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bootinfoscript/
[16:09] <MartijnVdS> good idea
[16:10] <SuperEngineer> whoopee! just found why the last few kernel updates have done the headers but not the kernel!
[16:10] <daftykins> :o?
[16:10] <SuperEngineer> the generic package is no longer installed [probably removed during an over zealous clear up long time ago]
[16:10] <daftykins> hehe oops
[16:10] <SuperEngineer> but which should I reinstall?
[16:10] <daftykins> so you were getting the latest version header package but staying on the oldest kernel you had on?
[16:11] <SuperEngineer> linux-generic?
[16:11] <SuperEngineer> linux image-generic?
[16:11] <daftykins> may as well
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> linux-generic = ok
[16:11] <daftykins> unless any more specific flavour benefits you
[16:11] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: thanks
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: (hint: probably not ;))
[16:12] <daftykins> :D
[16:12] <SuperEngineer> daftykins: only if there is a "banana" or "coffee" flavour ;)
[16:12] <daftykins> mmm coffee
[16:12] <daftykins> i just had a late lunch from Costa
[16:12] <daftykins> the carrot cake is still sat on my desk...
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: speaking of coffee: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/bieren/
[16:12] <daftykins> the caramel latte was great as always \o/
[16:13] <daftykins> this is the trouble with living right on the high street of the islands capital
[16:13] <daftykins> the Costa and 3 other cofffe shops are all within 50m of my front door
[16:13] <daftykins> :>
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: My brothers made those beers, one has coffee in it (they used 8l on a 300l tank)
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: which island is that? or are you rich? ;)
[16:14] <daftykins> lol no not rich
[16:14] <daftykins> Guernsey
[16:14] <daftykins> we're in the news a lot for Cameron being angry at tax havens
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> Also, I wonder what "the high street" of London would be
[16:14] <daftykins> :D
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> it seems to have several
[16:14] <daftykins> ours is a road literally called 'High Street' XD
[16:15] <daftykins> http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=49.456106,-2.536581&spn=0.0034,0.003932&t=m&z=18
[16:15] <daftykins> \o/
[16:16] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: hmm your brothers and I have something in common
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: lots of noms de rues françaises
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: coffee and beer?
[16:16] <daftykins> indeed, 'tis a very French influenced place :)
[16:17] <daftykins> hearing English / tourists pronounce place names is hilarious
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: it's probably like my GPS
[16:17]  * SuperEngineer used to be a [rather good] brewer
[16:17] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: hehehe
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: when I was driving to Cornwall, its Dutch voice was pronouncing all the names
[16:17] <daftykins> lmao
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: and that makes lots of place names come out French-ish
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> (places ending in "-mouth" come to mind)
[16:19] <daftykins> XD
[16:19] <daftykins> hrmm
[16:20] <daftykins> i was over at my parents last night, doing stuff on their ancient Athlon XP + nforce2 setup i put together years ago from spares
[16:20] <daftykins> the hard disk is streaming hardware ECC errors in its' SMART info
[16:20] <daftykins> i changed the PATA ribbon cable first naturally, but it kept going - probably going to die catastrophically some day isn't it? :D
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> eeeek
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> Once SMART starts to cry, you run to the store
[16:21] <daftykins> *nod*
[16:21] <daftykins> too true
[16:21] <daftykins> although PATA - won't be buying anything fresh of that :D
[16:21] <daftykins> sadly it's one of the two Abit NF7 boards that doesn't have the Silicon Image 3112a based SATA ports :<
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> but.. they've been saving money for a new computer.. right? :)
[16:21] <daftykins> hahaha
[16:21]  * SuperEngineer loves the phrase "donker bier" [even if he does know the tanslation - it sounds good ;)
[16:21] <daftykins> blowing it on constant home 'improvements' =/
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: "donker" = dark
[16:22] <daftykins> crazy old girl is after replacing the entire kitchen again
[16:22] <daftykins> there's nothing wrong with it >_<
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: They've just "gone pro" after a crowd-funding run among friends and family, these are their first 2 beers (after brewing almost 50 one-off homebrews)
[16:24] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: I wish the the very best of luck
[16:26] <SuperEngineer> all free samples this way please - purely for quality control of course ;)
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: they'll be in the UK in August I think
[16:28] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: cool
[16:28]  * SuperEngineer looks forward to free samples ;()
[16:35] <SuperEngineer> back in 90 minutes - f1 qualifying replay time  :-)
[16:36] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: have you got any experience with uEFI Ubuntu installs at all? i'm wondering if you can tell / choose whether you boot 13.04 in legacy mode
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: I did one once.. but it was a clean install on a clean system
[16:45] <daftykins> i wonder if i can EFI install in a VM
[16:45] <daftykins> probably not
[16:45] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/OVMF
[16:46] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: + http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/52996/how-to-boot-efi-kernel-using-qemu-kvm
[16:46] <daftykins> ah i don't run Linux on the desktop
[16:47] <MartijnVdS> VMWare can do EFI guestsd
[16:47] <MartijnVdS> vbox seems to be able to do efi guests as well
[16:47] <daftykins> hmmz
[16:51] <daftykins> time to download 13.04 for fun
[17:02] <daftykins> wow 13.04 still has the same ugly boot logo and menu on the liveCD
[17:05] <daftykins> < Parsi> sudo dd if=/usr/lib/syslinux/mbr.bin of=/dev/sda6
[17:06] <daftykins> got some guy that ran that on his windows partition :X
[17:41] <daftykins> hmm, indeed there appears to be no information regarding what *form* of partition table ubuntu creates during install
[18:06] <daftykins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
[18:06] <daftykins> ok this has been pretty handy to learn a bit more
[18:10] <popey> ¡ola!
[18:10] <daftykins> hi popey
[18:10] <daftykins> oops nearly called you pipey
[19:17] <Laney> put that in your pope and smoke it
[19:28] <daftykins> Laney: :D
[19:28] <daftykins> pub time
[19:57] <mungbean> trying to sort out my ISAs ...what a pain
[19:58] <Laney> not looking forward to having to transfer mine later this year
[19:58] <Laney> stupid bonus periods
[19:59] <mungbean> modern life is stressful
[19:59] <mungbean> 1 day per year to sort out ISA
[19:59] <mungbean> another to sort out home insurance
[19:59] <mungbean> then car insurance, etc, etc
[20:00] <mungbean> because everything is designed to rip you off
[20:00] <mungbean> not to mention phone line/broadband
[20:02] <mungbean> nationwide isa.interest rate 2.25% until sep 2014..then 0.5%
[20:04] <penguin42> mungbean: THey normally get a bit more desperate at the end of the tax year
[20:09] <mungbean> this is cool flight sim vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hipWoINtJX0
[20:35] <ball> Is there software for Ubuntu or Xubuntu that can write music files to an Apple iPod Nano (in a form that it can play)?
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> rhythmbox?
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> just drag the file to the device?
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> maybe banshee?
[20:37] <ball> Oh. I thought the iPod needed some sort of database "thing" made on it before it would play the files.
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> it does
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> and banshee knows how to handle that
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> and rhythmbox
[20:38] <ball> Oh.
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> if it's not the newest possible version
[20:38] <ball> I'll see if I can install one of those on her PC then.
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> sometimes the very latest versions don't work
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> because Apple wants you to use Apple hard/software ONLY
[20:39]  * ball nods
[20:39] <ball> vendor lock-in.
[20:40] <ball> If I were buying her a music player, it wouldn't be an iPod.  Her mum has an old one though.
[20:40] <ball> iPod Nano 4th gen. I think.
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> old ones tend to be fine (because they've been reverse-engineered)
[20:40] <ball> Too new for Rockbox but hopefully old enough for Rhythmbox
[21:33] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
[21:40]  * ball waves
[22:29]  * penguin42 yawns


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