[02:56] <WhiteNight> Hello All. I am not able to connect to freenode and the Ubuntu channel via some of the IPs that my Private VPN provider provides. Is there a solution, thanks?
[02:59] <dax> do you have an example IP address?
[03:00] <WhiteNight> ya sure, 1 sec
[03:00] <WhiteNight> in fact, allow me a few mins, I will paste all IPs my VPN gives me based on which country/location I connect via
[03:01] <dax> (i'm multitasking right now, but if no-one else shows up i can take a look)
[03:01] <dax> actually, prereq question i forgot to ask. Do you get "cannot join #ubuntu, you are banned (+b)", or "disconnected from server" / "killed" / "k-lined" etc.
[03:02] <WhiteNight> it just doesnt connect at all
[03:04] <dax> no error message at all?
[03:06] <WhiteNight> Ummm, let me give you 2 things
[03:07] <WhiteNight> 1) List of IPs = http://paste.ubuntu.com/18491969/
[03:07] <WhiteNight> I will disconnect, reconnect via VPN, get a screenshot, come back and share
[03:07] <WhiteNight> brb
[03:07] <dax> huh, PIA should be fairly well-supported
[03:07] <dax> doesn't sound like channel ban, but /me checks
[03:07] <dax> @btlogin
[03:09] <WhiteNight> Hi dax .. here is error screenshot from VPN
[03:09] <WhiteNight> http://paste.ubuntu.com/18492197/
[03:10] <dax> can you put it on imgur or something? ubuntu's pastebin probably isn't the best place for images :P
[03:10] <WhiteNight> Ouch, how do I send a picture to pastebin?
[03:10] <WhiteNight> yeah sure, hold on
[03:11] <Unit193> Just base64 it.. :P
[03:11]  * dax hits Unit193 with a hammer
[03:13] <WhiteNight> lol @ Unit193
[03:15] <dax> (not seeing any PIA IP addresses in #ubuntu's banlist btw, so this is gonna end up being an issue on freenode's or PIA's end, but we may as well help figure out which)
[03:18] <WhiteNight> Thanks Dax. brb
[03:20] <WhiteNight> dax, here is the error screenshot for you
[03:20] <WhiteNight> http://imgur.com/7E7vu55
[03:20] <WhiteNight> brb, dinner time :)
[03:20] <WhiteNight> tx for all the help in advance
[03:20] <dax> oh, it's saslified. one sec
[03:21] <dax> (unless someone else has Hexchat SASL instructions handy)
[03:21] <dax> WhiteNight: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/hexchat
[03:21] <dax> nvm found it
[03:21] <dax> WhiteNight: specifically on list item (2), I think Ubuntu's Hexchat calls it "ubuntu servers" or something
[03:23] <WhiteNight> ok, tx, will brb post dinner n dig bro
[09:38] <popey> @btlogin
[09:40] <popey> andybrine: what happens if you /join #ubuntu ?
[09:42] <andybrine> Im not able to join that at the moment, see my pm
[09:43]  * popey is looking up the ban, one moment
[09:43] <andybrine> Can anyone assist. The volume of my speakers is full as well as my computer volume but it is incredibly quiet
[09:45] <popey> So it looks like you were removed from the channel because you were asking support questions about topics we don't cover, after being told we don't support them?
[09:46] <popey> then proceeded to privately message abuse to people?
[09:46] <popey> That's not really the kind of thing we like to promote in our channels.
[09:47] <andybrine> There were a few people providing me support but one of the admins kept pushing me away.I was just asking assistance on where to go and I was blocked
[09:48] <popey> Can you see how our channel would become difficult to use if everyone used it as a central point for finding support with non-ubuntu things?
[09:48] <andybrine> I sent those messages as I am constantly hastled by the admin in questiion.
[09:48] <andybrine> It was actually a ubuntu question
[09:48] <popey> constantly?
[09:48] <andybrine> Yea, he has done this all the time
[09:49] <andybrine> anyway, im not going to defend myself. All I wanted was support
[09:49] <popey> He's an active op, with a good memory for people who repeatedly ask for things we don't support, for sure.
[09:49] <andybrine> that is what the community wis for
[09:49] <popey> ok, well if you don't want to resolve the ban, then I can recommend askubuntu.com for support.
[09:50] <andybrine> I would just like some support on some issues im having. If you look back at the conversation, you can clearly see that there were others helping me at that moment
[09:50] <andybrine> at least pointing me in the right direction
[09:51] <popey> But if everyone comes in asking random non-ubuntu questions, the channel becomes useless for people who actually want to use it for ubuntu support.
[09:51] <popey> There are other channels for android support
[09:51] <popey> it's not our fault if those channels aren't staffed
[09:52] <popey> there's also #ubuntu-offtopic for non-ubuntu-support stuff
[09:52] <popey> as an alternative within the ubuntu namespace
[09:52] <andybrine> it was actually initially a ubuntu question that I couldnt get resolved. Then I asked where I could get support
[09:53] <andybrine> I wanted to run the emulator for android in ubuntu.
[09:53] <andybrine> And I was not able to do that
[09:55] <popey> Yes, just looking at the logs there seems to have been some grey area there.
[09:57] <andybrine> Yes, for sure. Its not the first time that this specific admin has been rude and dismissive. When all I am looking to do is get a bug or issue fixed.
[10:03] <popey> I don't know the full history here, so I'm a little uncomfortable lifting the ban right now, until I can speak to ikonia
[10:05] <andybrine> No problem. I just thought the ubuntu irc was a place for community and support of that I recieved from some helpful people. It is just ironic that you have an admin that is incredibly disrespectful to people in the community and irc channel. Surely the ban should be on the other foot :/
[10:06] <k1l_> andybrine: stop
[10:06] <andybrine> I guess at the moment I am incredibly confused
[10:06] <k1l_> andybrine: stop blaming others for your actions. what about we start with you acting against the guidelines on purpose. and if other users or admins ask you to stop you start with harrassment even in pm?
[10:07] <andybrine> ahh and the irony continues lol :)
[10:08] <k1l_> andybrine: thing is: we cant allow non-ubuntu support in #ubuntu since its a very big channel and if everyone comes in there just to get their non ubuntu issues solved quickly, then its no use for ubuntu support anymore.
[10:08] <k1l_> can you agree on that?
[10:08] <andybrine> Think you need to look at your disrespectful admin. I was just a little annoyed that I was baned for not reason
[10:08] <andybrine> As I mentioned, it was actually a ubuntu problem that I was facing
[10:09] <andybrine> and had some great support from others trying to assist me
[10:09] <andybrine> which I am incredibly grateful for :)
[10:09] <k1l_> and now making fun of ops or even blame the ops that they asked and made you stick to the guidelines just makes you shine a in a bad light. since community is a two way street.
[10:11] <k1l_> so with the behaviour you showed just today i am not comfortable to release the ban, since you show no intention to follow the guidelines in future. you are just justifying your actions and blame all others. this makes it look like you will do this again. which we cant tolerate.
[10:11] <andybrine> its was about providing support that other gave me. I was actually trying to get support on a ubuntu issue. This particular admin is like this all the time. Very disrespectful. Literally Everyone else was amazing and very helpful :)
[10:11] <k1l_> i am quoting for the logs: 2016-06-10T13:01:20 <andybrine> bear with me ikonia I have tried the android irc channels and they are not active. It was just a passing question with the hope someone may have some experience
[10:12] <k1l_> so you said yourself: i didnt get an answer in the appropriate channel so i ask for non-ubuntu support in #ubuntu on purpose
[10:12] <k1l_> so stop telling the lie, that you did nothing wrong, when you said it yourself already back then.
[10:13] <andybrine> this was in the mix of many questions where others were just pointing me in the right direction. I actually pmed someone who was assisting me to take it away from the channel
[10:13] <k1l_> !guidelines | andybrine
[10:14] <k1l_> please have a read of the guidelines to make sure we are on the same basis to discuss the issues of #ubuntu in here.
[10:14] <andybrine> save it. I asked a was trying to resolve a ubuntu issue for quite a while and then asked where I could go to get the assistance I required
[10:15] <andybrine> peace, I think that is what is needed
[10:15] <andybrine> So PEACE! Over and Out!
[10:16] <k1l_> ok, if you cant even acknowledge to stick with the guidelines and not misuse #ubuntu for non-ubuntu support because the other channel is not active, i cant release the ban.
[10:17] <k1l_> asking for non ubuntu support in #ubuntu is unfair to the ubuntu community who needs #ubuntu to solve their ubuntu issues.
[10:21] <andybrine> hahaha, as I stated many times it was initially a ubuntu issue that I was trying to resolve. Then all I wanted was to be pointed in the right direction to get it resolved. I do think that is ok for me to ask that since it was a ubutnu issue I was trying to fix. I actually never wanted support for non-ubuntu issues. I know it was not the place for it. My issue is with the manner at which I was treated and have been
[10:21] <andybrine>  on an ongoing basis from this admin. It happens on an ongoing basis. Save adding me back into the community but at least look at the disrespect he gives others in the group.
[10:21] <andybrine> Double standards is the problem
[10:22] <bazhang> andybrine, it won't help your case for blaming an op
[10:23] <bazhang> andybrine, a simple acknowledgment of fault, affirm wont repeat using #ubuntu for no ubuntu stuff, and quick resolution
[10:23] <k1l_> andybrine: if you are concerned about the behaviour of an op you are free to contact the IRCC (like mentioned in the guidelines).
[10:24] <andybrine> sadly I can see that bazhang. Its just a shame when it is a great community and it just takes one person to spoil it.Its even more of a shame that it is an op.
[10:24] <k1l_> andybrine: but you are just busy pointing out others reactions while they were just reactions to your actions. for that actions you were banned. any you failes to make it look like this actions wont happen again, so far.
[10:25] <k1l_> *sigh*
[10:26] <andybrine> Sadly I know the intentions behind the actions and that was not it. I admit I asked a non-ubuntu question. but this was after I wanted able to resolve the ubuntu issue I was having :)
[10:26] <bazhang> andybrine, you wont respect/follow the guidelines, and insist on blaiming an op for YOUR behavior, thats no way to get a ban lifted
[10:27] <andybrine> skrew the ban lol. Im just in amazement at the irony (yawn)
[10:28] <bazhang> andybrine, ok . please exit the channel
[10:28] <andybrine> feel free to boot me lol :P (Actually I have to get some work done)
[10:51] <k1l_> andybrine: anything to add? if not please leave this channel (as told before)
[19:44] <k1l_> keithzg: anything we can do for you?
[20:42] <Dinosaurio> k1l_: Hey, I'm sorry, just having a bad day
[20:43] <k1l_> Dinosaurio: you have been warned, kicked and banned very often before. stay out of #ubuntu if you cant follow the guidelines
[20:43] <Dinosaurio> I haven't
[20:43] <Dinosaurio> anyway, could we stop all this talk and get down to the nitty-gritty?  I want to leave proof of your insults and malpractice as operator
[20:46] <dax> !1984
[20:46] <Dinosaurio> ban yourself right now
[20:48] <Dinosaurio> For God sake, man, do you really count how many times you get someone banned?
[20:48] <dax> no, there's a bot that does it for us
[20:48] <Dinosaurio> Am I the dumb?
[20:48] <k1l_> come back the day you are willing not to troll and finally willing to follow the guidelines.
[20:48] <dax> anything else we can help you with today, since clearly your ban's not going away at this time?
[20:49] <Dinosaurio> Good luck finding my other account cloaked
[20:49] <Dinosaurio> Let's hope your 'bot' does it for you
[20:49] <dax> if it behaves, i'm not sure why you think we'd care
[20:49] <dax> if not, it'll go too
[20:49] <Dinosaurio> that's good
[20:49] <Dinosaurio> I have a last question
[20:50] <Dinosaurio> Do you have friends?
[20:50] <dax> yup
[20:50] <Dinosaurio> I mean real friends
[20:50] <Dinosaurio> not fat faggots
[20:50] <elky> i'm his wife, i can assure you he has friends.
[20:52] <hggdh> what is going on today? A special pollen in the air?
[20:53] <k1l_> in here its last week in school before the summerbreak. so the kids get already bored
[20:54] <dax> it's been summer break for a month here, i guess that means the trolls are Europe's fault then :D
[21:47] <an3k> Hello. How can I check on which harddrive the linux disk cache is written to and how can I change it?
[21:47] <an3k> a pff
[21:49] <hggdh> an3k: better ask on #ubuntu. This is not a support channel.
[21:50] <an3k> Guess which channel I "joined" :)
[21:50] <hggdh> oh
[21:51] <hggdh> so you were probably forwarded
[21:51] <an3k> Yeah, looks like a perm-ban
[21:51] <hggdh> let me check
[21:55] <hggdh> yes, I see it, on Jan 7th you got ban-forwarded to -ops.
[21:55] <hggdh> an3k: so, do you want to discuss why you were banned?
[21:57] <an3k> I know why I was banned and I already tried to talk to the op twice. Second time I asked if I could talk about this issue to someone else so that person could be the "negotiator" but that made every op involved just angry
[21:58] <hggdh> well, you are chatting with me now
[22:02] <an3k> Yes :) Well, I know I crossed the line and I'm sorry about that. And no, I do not start talking about "he should have behaved different too" because I already noticed that doesn't help at all.
[22:03] <hggdh> indeed it does not help
[22:03] <hggdh> so
[22:03] <hggdh> did you read the guidelines? Do you need a pointer to them?
[22:04] <an3k> Yes, I did and know them, thanks.
[22:06] <hggdh> will you behave? Please note that a new ban will be much more difficult to revert.
[22:07] <an3k> Yes. I'll only ask politely for help and do nothing else like helping others (because that's how the ban happened)
[22:08] <hggdh> an3k: this is your option, and your take. Mind you, I personally find the second part a bit snarky.
[22:09] <an3k> Well, I would love to help others but since exactly that caused the whole thing I prefer not to do so anymore :(
[22:09] <hggdh> I am pointing this out only because this type of statement has a very good chance of been either mis-interpreted (if you did not mean it) or correcty interpreted (if you *did* mean it.
[22:10] <an3k> It's not meant offensive or snarky in any way. Sorry if it sounded so.
[22:10] <hggdh> OK
[22:10] <hggdh> I will take out the ban, then
[22:11] <an3k> Thank you.
[22:11] <hggdh> an3k: please see if you can get into #ubuntu now
[22:11] <an3k> Nope, still banned
[22:12] <hggdh> oh, used the wrong id
[22:13] <an3k> Looks like someone else can be happy now ;)
[22:13] <hggdh> an3k: please try again
[22:13] <an3k> now it works
[22:14] <an3k> Thank you again.
[22:14] <hggdh> OK. Now please part this channel, and enjoy the world.
[22:14] <hggdh> you are welcome
[23:21] <elky> well no you got the right id twice :P
[23:24] <hggdh> which is something, I guess
[23:41] <phunyguy> hi
[23:41] <phunyguy> elky: already jumping on and off the couch with ease.  This is not good.
[23:42] <elky> phunyguy: lol
[23:43] <dax> ours has claimed the couch as his bed
[23:43] <dax> other cat has been relegated to our bed
[23:43] <elky> phunyguy: apparently dax's parents cat was dancing on curtain rods at some ridiculously young age or something
[23:43] <phunyguy> oh no
[23:43] <phunyguy> 😞
[23:44] <phunyguy> he chews cords too 😞
[23:44] <dax> so you know those windows that have semi-circle windows above them?
[23:44] <elky> teething
[23:44] <phunyguy> supposed to keep hiim away from our other cats but he doesn't need to be locked up all day every day...
[23:44] <dax> we used to have one of those in our old house. she somehow got up there when she was a kitten
[23:44] <phunyguy> lol
[23:44] <dax> i assume by scaling the curtains
[23:45] <phunyguy> Jeeves: put up my finest curtains... I'd like to go climbing.
[23:46] <phunyguy> http://i.imgur.com/HH39RfX.jpg


[10:32] <Rhonda> Hmm.  I'm confused about #2045164 - are the LTS releases now publicly supported for 10 years instead of 5, or is that the paid ESM version?
[10:32] <Rhonda> LP#2045164 - does that trigger the bot? :)
[10:32] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2045164 in pkg-website "Please add LTS releases for the last 10 years" [Undecided, Won't Fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2045164
[10:50] <RikMills> Rhonda: standard support is still 5 years as per:
[10:50] <RikMills> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39890
[12:21] <Rhonda> RikMills: So what are those 10 years referring to?  ESM then?
[12:21] <Rhonda> Is there something similar like this list for the ports mirrors?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
[12:30] <PaulW2U> Rhonda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases should give you all applicable dates for each release
[12:46] <guiverc> 5 years standard support; an extra 5 with ESM, a further 2 with legacy
[13:32] <Rhonda> PaulW2U: Right, but … that page is confusing if you take a look yourself.
[13:34] <Rhonda> Oh. I read the ESM table wrongly and was confused with the End of Life column in there, and was in the wrong line.  So the End of Life column in the first table is actually indeed ESM time, and only available to paying customers


[08:44] <jibel> pitti, we're short on system disk space on the phone, do we need /var/cache/apt/*.bin for apport?
[08:45] <jibel> there are src and binaries indexes and it takes 50MB or os
[08:45] <jibel> so*
[08:45] <jibel> they cannot be regenerated since the fs is ro
[08:45] <pitti> /var/cache/ is r/o?
[08:46] <pitti> jibel: well, I'd say kill them -- as you can't change packages in the system image anyway, it's fairly irrelevant for apport
[08:46] <pitti> and as soon as you switch to r/w and run apt-get update, the cache will come back
[08:47] <pitti> jibel: I'm not 100% sure, let me test this a bit
[08:48] <jibel> pitti, already saved 100MB by stripping dekko and scopes and removing various logs generated at build time.
[08:48] <pitti> jibel: I don't even have a /var/cache/apt/*.bin
[08:48] <jibel> pitti, on the phone?
[08:48] <pitti> I mean on a normal xenial desktop
[08:49] <jibel> pitti, did you configure apt to not generate them maybe?
[08:49] <jibel> I found a wiki page from you where you explain how to do it
[08:50] <pitti> right, that was some "how to downsize your raring install" for an OEM project
[08:50] <jibel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReducingDiskFootprint#Disable_apt_caches
[08:50] <pitti> not knowingly on my system, but apt may have changed between vivid and xeniall
[08:50] <jibel> I've these files on xenial
[08:50] <jibel> and they are recent
[08:51] <pitti> jibel: anyway, apport doesn't directly use the cache; and if apt doesn't have it, it'll read the _Packages lists, which is just slower, but works
[08:51] <pitti> jibel: so, kill'em
[08:51] <pitti> unless you *also* removed /var/lib/apt/lists/ of course
[08:52] <jibel> let me check
[08:52] <jibel> yeah it's empty
[08:52] <pitti> jibel: it's quite easy to test too -- run "apport-cli unity8" and see if you get proper Dependencies: or an error
[08:53] <jibel> okay I'll try that
[08:53] <pitti> without either the cache or the lists it should have some trouble
[08:54] <pitti> get_dependencies() uses python-apt right now
[08:54] <pitti> it could possibly be rewritten to call dpkg instead
[08:54] <pitti> (which is slower with lots of dependencies, but doesn't need the apt infos then)
[08:56] <jibel> pitti, apport is the only thing that needs these packages afaik. I'll start by removing obvious cruft, then we'll see what we can do with this if we need to reclaim more space
[08:56] <jibel> these files*
[08:57] <pitti> jibel: does it freak out without the *.bin?
[08:57] <jibel> pitti, trying now
[08:57] <pitti> jibel: yeah, and it's also relatively pointless -- the system image channel/version is enough, we don't really need the precise Dependencies: at report time if we have a way to reconstruct them later
[09:03] <jibel> pitti, apparently it doesn't really matter for apport. Here is a test https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1572455
[09:03] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1572455 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "[TESTING ONLY] Testing apport without apt indexes" [Undecided,New]
[09:07] <pitti> jibel: ah, very nice; so I guess apt.Cache() is clever enough to fall back to querying dpkg
[09:11] <pitti> jibel: that actually makes sense; use dpkg's database for installed packages, and apt's caches/lists for candidates


[12:04] <ajmitch> most people are in europe now, what's a suitable time for you?
[12:04] <sistpoty> he, I'm a student, so my time is a bit different then normal peoples time ;)
[12:05] <lucasd> ajmitch, where are you from?
[12:05] <ajmitch> lucasd: new zealand
[12:05] <lucasd> oh, I see..
[12:05] <sistpoty> 22.00 utc?
[12:05] <sistpoty> 24.00h utc?
[12:05] <ajmitch> eek
[12:05] <ajmitch> that's getting late for europeans who actually work ;)
[12:05] <sistpoty> 8 utc?
[12:06] <sistpoty> *g*
[12:06] <ajmitch> 8utc might be better, could be too early for you ;)
[12:06] <lucas> what about 22.00 utc the day before ?
[12:06] <ajmitch> shall we take it to the list?
[12:06] <lucas> or 2000 utc
[12:06] <ajmitch> get an agreement for a meeting in 2-3 weeks, settle on a time in the next week
[12:06] <sistpoty> yeah... defer it to the list... we need this meeting to be over now ;)
[12:07] <lucas> ok
[12:07] <ajmitch> or a launchpad poll! ;)
[12:07] <sistpoty> yeeehaa!
[12:07] <\sh> well..good night :)
[12:07] <sistpoty> meeting adjourned ;)
[12:07] <sistpoty> gn8 \sh
[12:07] <ajmitch> night \sh
[12:07] <\sh> doing the minutes somehow tomorrow or saturday...depends on my timeframe of action
[12:07] <sistpoty> phew... that was long
[12:07] <slomo_> gn8 everybody :)
[12:08] <sistpoty> gn8 slomo_
[12:11] <raphink> ooops sorry I had to go in the middle of it :s
[03:02] <jsgotangco> yo!
[03:02] <LaserJock> hi jsgotangco
[03:03] <jsgotangco> only us?
[03:03] <LaserJock> I sure hope not
[03:04] <Madpilot> good morning
[03:06] <jsgotangco> heh 3 people this isn't good
[03:07] <jsgotangco> LaserJock, you've been writing lately right?
[03:08] <LaserJock> well, a bit. It's not easy wearing so many hats :(
[03:08] <jsgotangco> yeah :(
[03:08] <azeem> hi
[03:08] <LaserJock> I've been trying to do reaseach, not ignore my wife, run the MOTUScience team, and do some packaging guide
[03:09] <LaserJock> hi azeem
[03:09] <azeem> oops, this is -meeting
[03:11] <jsgotangco> nobody wants a meeting on friday the 13th
[03:11] <jsgotangco> let's just move this on the 27th, 22:00UTC?
[03:12] <LaserJock> darn, I woke up 0600 so we could move it? oh well
[03:12] <Madpilot> likewise :P
[03:12] <jsgotangco> LaserJock, yeah it sucks i'm really sorry
[03:12] <Madpilot> ah well, I can go back to bed for an hour now :)
[03:13] <jsgotangco> we've been having a hard time getting a good number of people on -meeting lately
[03:13] <LaserJock> I understand
[03:13] <LaserJock> we had a 3 hour MOTU meeting yesterday
[03:13] <jsgotangco> but for some reason we get to talk on the channel at any time with no problems
[03:13] <LaserJock> it helps when you have a large number of opinionated people
[03:14] <jsgotangco> unfortunately, docs seems to be a boring thing for community
[03:14] <jsgotangco> (well docs in the distro that is)
[03:15] <jsgotangco> (i hope we don't become a gnome-docs soon)
[03:15] <LaserJock> yeah, I have been trying to poke the MOTU for feedback on the Ubuntu Packaging Guide but really haven't gotten any response
[03:16] <jsgotangco> I asked zakame to verify it though
[03:16] <jsgotangco> he made some changes in the wiki
[03:16] <jsgotangco> because i reviewed the doc in svn
[03:17] <jsgotangco> it didn't work with me
[03:17] <dholbach> LaserJock: We repeatedly said to talk to Diziet, since he'll work on the other Ubuntu Packaging Guide.
[03:18] <LaserJock> dholbach: Diziet doesn't say anything, he hasn't begun working on the Ubuntu Developers Reference
[03:18] <jsgotangco> oohh north america wakes up
[03:18] <LaserJock> dholbach: I think he is very busy with other thing, which is understandable
[03:18] <dholbach> LaserJock: Yeah, because he's quite busy.
[03:19] <dholbach> There's indubitably lots of pioneer work to do.
[03:19] <jsgotangco> dholbach, someone who knows has to review it at least...it doesn't take that much to read over the doc imo
[03:19] <LaserJock> dholbach: but I sent an email out to -motu asking for feedback and didn't get a single reply :( But I understand that people are busy and many aren't very interested in docs
[03:19] <jsgotangco> its not that much either
[03:20] <dholbach> LaserJock: I'm truely sorry for that.
[03:20] <jsgotangco> dholbach, i tried it out a few weeks ago before the holidays and it didn't work well with me, zakame reviewed some and made wiki changes and that's it
[03:20] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: what did you try out?
[03:20] <dholbach> LaserJock: I'm very very busy myself, but send me the doc as a mail or the link to it and I'll try my best.
[03:20] <jsgotangco> LaserJock, himmm don't remember..i can do it again
[03:21] <jsgotangco> i can do an rpm but a deb escapes me really
[03:21] <LaserJock> well, I am starting from scratch so the packaging guide at doc.ubuntu.com will be replaced
[03:21] <jsgotangco> i tried the one in svn
[03:21] <LaserJock> yeah, that would be the one
[03:22] <LaserJock> I (and theCore) are working on a total rewrite
[03:22] <jsgotangco> i can do a grammar/structure review if needed
[03:22] <LaserJock> ok, thanks for the offer
[03:23] <jsgotangco> (i should also make a review of the styleguide)
[03:24] <LaserJock> dholbach: don't feel too bad, if people don't have the time they don't have the time. I just feel uneasy about me doing this by myself when I'm still pretty new to packaging.
[03:24] <dholbach> absolutely. I understand.
[03:24] <dholbach> Docs are terribly important, and I'd love to see them in good shape.
[03:25] <dholbach> Because that's what a lot of new MOTUs are complaining about.
[03:25] <dholbach> So I'll try to get to it asap.
[03:25] <jjesse> doh is it that time already
[03:25] <LaserJock> dholbach: well, I don't have anything worth looking at right now, I will email you when I do, OK?
[03:26] <jsgotangco> dholbach, interestingly enough, sabdfl told me before he wanted to do a set of development docs...but that's understandable he's a busy guy, but there's a need for such
[03:26] <dholbach> LaserJock: Excellent, thanks.
[03:26] <dholbach> dholbach: maybe he intended to let Diziet do it?
[03:26] <jsgotangco> dholbach, in a commercial pov, it makes sense in creating a brand identity in my opinion
[03:27] <dholbach> jsgotangco: concerning the MOTU?
[03:27] <jsgotangco> dholbach, no development docs in general
[03:28] <dholbach> jsgotangco: Could you elaborate? I don't quite understand.
[03:28] <LaserJock> well, if all goes well this Ubuntu Packaging Guide will really rock I think. Most of the info about packaging .debs is scattered about the web
[03:31] <jsgotangco> how do i explain it fully
[03:31] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:32] <jsgotangco> well ok let's just do this one more time and slowly
[03:32] <jsgotangco> we'd like a packaging guide in time for release
[03:33] <dholbach> yeah
[03:33] <jsgotangco> at the moment, it deseperately needs peer review
[03:33] <jsgotangco> because without review, edits won't happen
[03:33] <dholbach> yes
[03:34] <jsgotangco> i reviewed the doc before the holidays but i find it terse...
[03:34] <jsgotangco> ok terse is a wrong word
[03:37] <LaserJock> well for now you guys could review the outline at w.u.c/UbuntuPackagingGuide if you wanted to
[03:37] <jsgotangco> what i can do is soften the doc when it gets reviewed technically
[03:37] <jsgotangco> checking
[03:39] <dholbach> I have a visitor here over the weekend, so I daresay I won't find the time, but please send me a mail and I'll try to get to it ASAP, once I've done, I'll mail the rest of the guys, tell them that I was a good boy everybody should get to it quickly or i'll tell them that they are the reason that MOTU doesn't scale enough - how does that sound?
[03:39] <LaserJock> dholbach: lol, ok
[03:39] <jsgotangco> sure
[03:40] <dholbach> ok :)
[03:40] <jsgotangco> come to think of it
[03:40] <jsgotangco> your visitor can help
[03:40] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:40] <jsgotangco> joke
[03:40] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: depends on the visitor ;-)
[03:40] <jsgotangco> the close to dholbach the better
[03:40] <dholbach> It's a she, so I daresay we'll find more interesting things to do.
[03:40] <jsgotangco> s/close/closer
[03:41] <jsgotangco> we need dholbach to focus on more important stuff, say like us...
[03:41] <LaserJock> dholbach: more interesting than Ubuntu, come on, you can't be serious ;p
[03:41] <jsgotangco> or else we'll spam his mailbox with wiki edits
[03:41] <dholbach> :)
[03:41] <dholbach> you guys rock!
[03:42] <jsgotangco> flattery will get you nowhere!
[03:42] <LaserJock> well, I think my wife might be starting to hate Ubuntu as much as any Gentooist out there ;-)
[03:42] <LaserJock> "all you do is talk to the Ubuntu guys"
[03:43] <jsgotangco> ok let's just adjourn this and move it to the 27th at 22UTC
[03:43] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: yes sir
[03:43] <jsgotangco> we'll let dholbach enjoy the weekend for now
[03:43] <Nafallo> LaserJock: tell her you are one of them then? and that she is doing the same every time she talks to you <g> :-)
[03:44] <dholbach> :)
[03:44] <LaserJock> Nafallo: yeah, that will get me brownie points for sure ;-)
[03:45] <jsgotangco>  Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 27 Jan 22:00 UTC: Documentation Team Meeting  | 17 Jan 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jan 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 24 Jan 21:00 UTC:  Community Council
[03:45] <jsgotangco> acgghhh
[04:09] <MrRio> missed it .. :P


[05:33] <Kilos> o/
[16:32] <tyhicks> hello
[16:32] <mdeslaur> \o
[16:32] <tyhicks> #startmeeting
[16:32] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  7 16:32:55 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:32] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:32] <tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[16:33] <tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[16:33] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[16:33] <tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
[16:35] <jdstrand> hi
[16:36] <jdstrand> so this week I will be working with the snappy core team on integrating security policies into interfaces
[16:36] <jdstrand> I also plan to work on security policies for snappy on classic
[16:37] <jdstrand> I have 2-3 embargoed items I'm working on
[16:37] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[16:37] <mdeslaur> I'm currently testing a django regression fix for the regression fix that I'll be publishing today
[16:37] <mdeslaur> hopefully we won't require a regression fix for the regression fix for the regression fix
[16:38] <mdeslaur> I have an embargoed issue I'm working on
[16:38] <mdeslaur> and I plan on going down the list after that
[16:38] <mdeslaur> I'm on bug triage too
[16:38] <mdeslaur> that's about it
[16:38] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
[16:38] <sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week
[16:39] <sbeattie> I'll also be going through the more recent pie-rebuild test results, and prepping fixes where needed.
[16:40] <sbeattie> I have an update that's been sitting on the back burner that I need to get off my plate
[16:40] <sbeattie> that'll probably consume my week
[16:40] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: what update?
[16:40] <sbeattie> pillow
[16:40] <mdeslaur> ah, I think there's been another CVE for that, in case you weren't aware
[16:41] <sbeattie> It was assigned after the fact, but I'd pulled the fix in for it initially
[16:41] <mdeslaur> oh, cool
[16:41] <tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
[16:41] <sbeattie> I stalled out on one of the patches not backporting cleanly, and then the tests to confirm things had changed drastically.
[16:42] <sbeattie> tyhicks: I'm done
[16:42] <tyhicks> thanks
[16:42] <tyhicks> I'm focused on AppArmor stacking again... specifically finishing the regression tests for stacking
[16:42] <tyhicks> I think that'll wrap up all of the userspace changes required to land stacking
[16:43] <jdstrand> \o/
[16:43] <tyhicks> and we hope to land the stacking changes late this week so that'll take some time, as well
[16:43] <tyhicks> I'm still trying to get time to fix the eCryptfs parallel copy file corruption bug (LP: #1543633)
[16:43] <tyhicks> and I have an embargoed issue
[16:44] <tyhicks> that's it for me
[16:44] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[16:45] <jjohansen> I am focused on AppArmor stacking as well. specifically working through the rather long list of issues that remain
[16:46]  * jjohansen is not as confident as tyhicks of landing it late this week
[16:46] <tyhicks> I'm not necessarily confident but that's the goal :)
[16:47] <jjohansen> that is going to take all week, and if by some miracle it doesn't then I will work on updating the upstream trees, and chasing some of the outstanding bugs
[16:47] <jjohansen> sure, I just wanted to point out I am more pessimistic :P
[16:47]  * jjohansen is done sarnold you're up
[16:49] <sarnold> heh if we're aiming at landing stacking this week it feels like we all out to be writing tests .. oof
[16:50] <sarnold> I'm on community this week; i'm working on the fwupd mir first, then .. hmm, I forget the name of the next one on the list
[16:50] <sarnold> i'd also like to poke along a feature freeze exception for libvirt's zfsonlinux support
[16:51] <sarnold> and I'll try to review the apparmor stacking patches ^^ when it makes sense
[16:51] <tyhicks> golang-websocket-dev is the next MIR on the list
[16:51] <sarnold> aha, thanks :)
[16:51] <sarnold> it's also a short week for me
[16:52] <sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
[16:52] <chrisccoulson> I've got Firefox and Oxide updates to do this week. I shall also (hopefully) be sponsoring Chromium updates
[16:53] <chrisccoulson> I spent some time last week debugging performance issues on Freiza. I don't plan to spend any more time on that this week, which means I can hopefully crack on with convergence work in Oxide
[16:53] <chrisccoulson> That's me done :)
[16:54] <tyhicks> thanks chrisccoulson :)
[16:54] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[16:54] <tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[16:55] <tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[16:55] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/snack.html
[16:55] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jansson.html
[16:55] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/groovy2.html
[16:55] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/oath-toolkit.html
[16:55] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/wv2.html
[16:56] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[16:56] <tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[16:57] <tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
[16:58] <tyhicks> #endmeeting
[16:58] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  7 16:58:02 2016 UTC.
[16:58] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-07-16.32.moin.txt
[16:58] <sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
[16:58] <jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks!
[16:58] <jjohansen> thanks tyhicks


[13:59] <mattgriffin> marcoceppi: how does one join the hangout?
[13:59] <marcoceppi> mattgriffin: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/fa6dea509240bfe96361ee99a233312bebed02b0?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:01] <marcoceppi> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-flag-bearer-charms
[14:05] <arosales> Any question please preced them with [QUESTION]
[14:05] <arosales> Welcome to Flag Bearer Charms (application) session :-)
[14:05] <bkerensa> [QUESTION] Will there be preferred languages for textbook charms?
[14:06]  * bkerensa jolts marcoceppi
[14:08] <bkerensa> maybe have a textbook charm in all the most common languages?
[14:08] <bkerensa> ahh
[14:10] <bkerensa> uhh loud phone
[14:10] <bkerensa> :s
[14:13] <bkerensa> if you going to pycon have a py charm
[14:13] <bkerensa> ruby event have a ruby charm
[14:13] <bkerensa> that way if people say well lets see ruby we have one
[14:14] <bkerensa> Could we maybe have a screencast showing the anatomy of them?
[14:14] <marcoceppi> bkerensa: docs will have that
[14:14] <bkerensa> ahh
[14:15] <arosales> bkerensa, ya we'll definitely do an anatomy of a charm web cast.
[14:35] <marcoceppi> Questions?
[14:41] <arosales> Flag Bearer Charm Session ended
[14:42] <arosales> jcastro, in regards to work items in the pad I think it is useful to first collaborate on them in the pad, and then just to a past afterwards into the BP.
[14:42] <jcastro> ack
[14:42] <arosales> as launchpad can stomp multiple folks pasting, but if that is coordinated in the hangout no worries
[14:45] <jcastro> yeah
[14:45] <bkerensa> heh
[14:45] <jcastro> I just pasted in the notes to the BP
[14:45] <jcastro> I've just been burned by buried notes and WI not making it into LP in the past
[14:50] <m_3> jcastro: thanks... I was just worrying through trying to figure out what work-items we needed to capture
[14:51] <jcastro> I had one cycle
[14:51] <jcastro> where I missed an entire blueprint
[14:51] <jcastro> like next month my boss is llike "how's it going?"
[14:51] <jcastro> and I was like man, what is he talking about
[14:54] <m_3> well 0 workitems works too: "It's going great!... what do you mean?"
[15:05] <arosales> Charm Policy Review starting in a couple of minutes
[15:05] <arosales> IF you want to join us please feel free to. We are at https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/a8dd2bb22ca20fe5b4473891f25210fe2d5710da?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:05] <arosales> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21705/servercloud-s-juju-charm-policy-review/
[15:06] <cjohnston> heya
[15:06] <marcoceppi> o/
[15:06] <jamespage> o/
[15:07] <cjohnston> so professional
[15:08] <arosales> cjohnston, hello
[15:09] <cjohnston> :-)
[15:11] <utlemming> I don't care where the bits land, as long as they are in the same place
[15:11] <utlemming> its really hard to do a backup charm with everyone dropping the bits anywhere they want
[15:12] <arosales> cjohnston, utlemming feel free to join us in the hangout :-)
[15:13] <arosales> URL is above ^
[15:14] <avoine> o/
[15:14] <arosales> avoine, hello
[15:14] <avoine> hi
[15:17] <arosales> If folks want to join us in the hangout the URL is in the pad
[15:17] <arosales> or just give me a ping
[15:18] <arosales> also preface questions with [QUESTION] so we don't miss them.
[15:21] <robbiew-uds> jcastro keeping them honest!
[15:30] <avoine> hehe
[15:35] <wedgwood> wow, reminder fail. just tuning in
[15:37] <marcoceppi> Questions?
[15:38] <avoine> [QUESTION] Does charm writer will have access to per commit test run?
[15:38] <wedgwood> I'm just catching up. I don't see any surprises.
[15:39] <wedgwood> jcastro: question ^^
[15:39] <wedgwood> or arosales ^^
[15:39] <arosales> wedgwood, ack
[15:45] <arosales> Any other questions?
[15:46] <wedgwood> have we discussed anything about how a ratings system might relate to or affect policy?
[15:48] <wedgwood> jcastro: +1
[15:48] <wedgwood> It would be nice to be able to say we require a certain quality rating for production environments
[15:49] <wedgwood> I'm good thanks
[16:05] <arosales> jcastro, ping
[16:05] <jcastro> pong
[16:05] <jcastro> coming
[16:08] <arosales> Started session: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21703/servercloud-s-juju-audit-charms/
[16:09] <arosales> pad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-servercloud-s-juju-audit-charms
[16:09] <arosales> Google hangout URL is in the pad if you are interested in joining us. Be sure to preface questions with [QUESITON] so we don't miss them.
[16:36] <marcoceppi> Questions?
[16:38] <arosales> https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/charm-store.html --> should we add an "audit charm" guide ?
[16:57] <arosales> Charm Audit session done
[17:57] <arosales> Charm Development Tooling starting in a bit
[17:57] <arosales> If your are interested in joining us in the hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7702813e48c52e2459fda12e4c5e86b4da64541c?authuser=0&hl=en
[18:07] <arosales> we are live in the google hangout.  If you have any questions please preface them with [QUESTION] so we don't miss them
[18:17] <mattyw> QUESTION: I'm a bit confused by the idea of the contrib directory. Are we saying this is where contributers would merge to, and then it would get taken into 'main' when it was deemed ready?
[18:18] <arosales> mattyw, thanks for the question. I'll tee it up
[18:18] <avoine> +1 for package in main, pip is not checking for signature
[18:18] <avoine> or other security check
[18:20] <arosales> for folks wishing to joing us in the g+ hangout feel free to join via https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7702813e48c52e2459fda12e4c5e86b4da64541c?authuser=0&hl=en
[18:22] <bac_> The branch can be seen at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~charm-helpers/charm-helpers/devel/files/head:/charmhelpers/
[18:25] <arosales> marcoceppi, sorry not main, but universe for charm-tools
[18:25] <arosales> marcoceppi, Filename: pool/universe/c/charm-tools/charm-tools_0.3+151-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[18:25] <marcoceppi> arosales: ack
[18:25] <bac_> arosales: there is also python-charmhelpers, which is in the lp:charm-tools project
[18:26] <bac_> packaged universe also
[18:26] <arosales> bac_, thanks
[18:27] <mattyw> It sounds like contrib is a temporary place to put stuff in to achieve the goal of having stuff in one place - without contributors having to mess around with their package structure too much, and the first step on the road to organising it into a sensible place
[18:27] <arosales> +1 on keeping charm-tools seperate
[18:29] <wedgwood> mattyw: that's exactly it
[18:29] <mattyw> wedgwood, ok - thanks very much, sounds good
[18:29] <arosales> wedgwood, thanks for confirming
[18:30] <arosales> wedgwood, do you have the LP link to the current charm helper
[18:30]  * arosales is trying to collect the list of charm dev tools at the bottom of the pad
[18:30] <arosales> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-servercloud-s-juju-charmhelper2
[18:30] <wedgwood> lp:charm-helpers
[18:30] <wedgwood> https://launchpad.net/charm-helpers
[18:31] <arosales> wedgwood, the icon for the project is nice too
[18:32] <bac_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~charm-helpers/charm-helpers/devel/files/head:/charmhelpers/contrib/
[18:32] <bac_> arosales: ^^
[18:33] <arosales> bac_, thanks
[18:33] <mattyw> wedgwood, arosales does stuff that gets put it in here need to support py juju & juju-core? It looks like there's some stuff in here which is pyju specific
[18:33] <wedgwood> arosales: I put a list of the included projects at the bottom of the pad
[18:33] <marcoceppi> mattyw: great question, I'll ask in a second
[18:33] <arosales> mattyw, I think going forward we would just make sure there is support for juju-core
[18:34] <arosales> wedgwood, thanks for adding the list
[18:37] <arosales> adam_g, did you want to confirm out of band relations with mramm, and file a bug if it is not there?
[18:38] <adam_g> arosales, sure
[18:39] <arosales> adam_g, thanks
[18:59] <arosales> Any other questions ?
[18:59] <bac> marcoceppi: did you see my comment: lp:python-shelltoolbox (documented via extensive docstrings)
[19:00] <marcoceppi> bac: thank you!
[19:00] <bac> np
[19:03] <arosales> Framework Charms starting in a bit
[19:03] <arosales> Feel free to join us in the hangout @ https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f7a5e5cb4adb060c1bc942cd70f0bf62b13c7fb2?authuser=0&hl=en
[19:03]  * arosales will also put it in the pad
[19:17] <hatch> I'm hoping to start on it right away
[19:18] <arosales> hatch, if you want to join us feel free to load up https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f7a5e5cb4adb060c1bc942cd70f0bf62b13c7fb2?authuser=0&hl=en
[19:19] <hatch> I would like input from anyone who wants this charm as to what relations and feature they would like
[19:19] <hatch> arosales, yeah it won't connect from either of my machines....I'm keeping trying
[19:25] <hatch> that's a good idea
[19:25]  * hatch is going to try and participate via chat
[19:30] <hatch> Creating a base charm and then passing it off to someone in that industry is a good idea
[19:31] <hatch> I think it removes the barrier to entry
[19:34] <hatch> I would like to create a standard for node
[19:34] <hatch> so that the juju charm config goes in X
[19:34] <hatch> across all node apps
[19:37] <hatch> I would be worried about a way to display these properly in the browser
[19:39] <hatch> node would be an easy one for that I would think
[19:42] <m_3> yup
[19:43] <avoine> [question] Where charmers should put documentation for an application charms? in the README of the framework charm? in a docs/ directory? rtd.org?
[19:43] <hatch> +1
[19:44] <hatch> thanks arosales :)
[19:44] <marcoceppi> avoine: thanks, queued!
[19:44] <hatch> exactly
[19:46] <hatch> m_3, we SHOULD standardize the location of the config for juju
[19:47] <hatch> wrt node applications - so we could say - "put your juju config file in the root dir and call it juju-config.yaml"
[19:48] <hatch> but we can has that out later on
[19:49] <m_3> hatch: ack.. that'd be awesome
[19:49] <m_3> hatch: it's also a problem with sinatra
[19:50] <m_3> hatch: but yeah, it's worth being opinionated about it imo
[19:50] <avoine> ok, but what about documentation about creating an new application charm?
[19:50] <marcoceppi> QUestions?
[19:50] <m_3> haven't been to date
[19:50] <marcoceppi> avoine: ack, queuing
[19:50] <hatch> yeah I'm ok with being opinionated ;)
[19:51] <hatch> ahh yeah that is also a good idea
[19:52] <hatch> sure thing
[19:52] <m_3> http://markmims.com/cloud/2011/09/07/node-mongo-ubuntu.html
[19:53] <hatch> thanks I'll read that after this
[19:55] <arosales> Any other questions ?
[19:55] <jcastro> avoine: any platform you're interested in in particular?
[19:55] <avoine> I'm Patrick, I'm writing the Django charm
[19:55] <hatch> yup will definitely be doing that blog
[19:56] <arosales> hello Patrick :-)
[19:56] <arosales> aka avoine
[19:56] <avoine> Hey o/
[19:56] <arosales> avoine, feel free to join us @ https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f7a5e5cb4adb060c1bc942cd70f0bf62b13c7fb2?authuser=0&hl=en
[19:57] <avoine> my internet is really bad...
[19:57] <arosales> avoine, our G+ ended, but please feel free to join us tomorrow in some sessions if you are available
[19:57] <arosales> avoine, ah
[19:57] <hatch> great chat guys
[19:58] <arosales> hatch, m_3 has complete confidence that you will fix all node.js problems :-)
[19:59] <hatch> haha - I am excited to use the node charm so it's in my own selfish interests to do a good job ;)
[20:01] <avoine> jcastro: I'll request a merge to get the Django+Gunicorn charm in the store maybe this week or the next one
[20:02] <avoine> I just need Bruno to check out my spelling :P
[20:02] <jcastro> sounds awesome