[01:04] <psusi> so if a program uses egg_debug()... how do you enable those prints?
[02:37] <qnix> hi ppl
[02:37] <qnix> question, how do you version a beta release?
[02:37] <qnix> 6.0.0-1~beta1 ?
[02:40] <micahg> qnix: no, the beta should be part of the upstream version 6.0.0~beta1-1 (for Debian)
[02:40] <qnix> my tar.gz is named soft-6.0.0-beta1.tar.gz
[02:42] <qnix> kk, but I have to rename the tar.gz, right? since the name contains a - ?
[02:43] <micahg> qnix: right
[02:44] <qnix> can it contain a ~?
[02:45] <micahg> qnix: yep, here's an example: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/4.0~b12+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu1
[02:45] <qnix> micahg: thank you.
[04:08] <onehundredthirty> hi. could anyone please review uwsgi package (it's a WSGI server)? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/uwsgi
[04:28] <c2tarun> how can I find the tracker for any problem? like a tracker for new version available, or a tracker for ftbfs or any other?
[04:29] <lifeless> c2tarun: what do you mean?
[04:32] <c2tarun> I mean there are certain trackers like, http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi  and http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/universe how many other are there?
[04:32] <c2tarun> lifeless: ^^
[04:33] <lifeless> how big is the internet
[04:33] <c2tarun> lifeless: enormous ;)
[04:34] <lifeless> exactly
[04:35] <c2tarun> lifeless: hmmm.... so there is no place where I can get the link of such trackers?
[04:35] <lifeless> google ?
[04:35] <lifeless> I don't really know what you mean
[04:35] <c2tarun> lifeless: nevermind :)
[04:36] <lifeless> I don't think there is a big list of reports for ubuntu or debian
[04:37]  * c2tarun there should be one, this makes work a lot easier
[04:38] <micahg> c2tarun: this might be the closest thing we have http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/
[04:39] <c2tarun> micahg: this is good :) thanks
[04:39] <micahg> c2tarun: here's another: http://harvest.ubuntu.com/
[06:37] <wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing l2tp-ipsec-vpn? It's a little applet to configure and manage L2TP IPsec VPN connections. I've just uploaded a new candidate to fix all problems about which micahg and mok0 complained. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
[06:39] <micahg> wejaeger: there's no need to post that whole message every time, you ca\n just ask if someone can review the package
[07:43] <c2tarun> there is package in natty archive named darksnow, this package include few log files and a patch inside the patch folder, but no series of 00list file, what are these log files for?
[07:48] <dholbach> good morning
[07:50] <elricL> Hello
[07:52] <c2tarun> there is package in natty archive named darksnow, this package include few log files and a patch inside the patch folder, but no series of 00list file, what are these log files for?
[08:03] <geser> c2tarun: darksnow uses the "simple-patchsys" from cdbs which simply applies all patches it finds in debian/patches in alphabetical order (it doesn't need a 00list or series file)
[08:04] <c2tarun> geser: is there any manual or walkthrough for this patch system>
[08:06] <geser> c2tarun: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
[08:07] <geser> c2tarun: and what log files? I don't see any in the webview of the packaging branch on LP
[08:08] <c2tarun> geser: these are the files in patches folder gcc -g -O2 -g -O2 -DUSE_TOOLTIP -pthread -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgio-2.0 -lpangoft2-1.0 -lpangocairo-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lm -lcairo -lpango-1.0 -lfreetype -lfontconfig -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -lgthread-2.0 -lrt -lglib-2.0   -pthread -I/usr/include/gtk-2.0 -I/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/include -I/usr/include/atk-1.0 -I/usr/include/cairo -I/usr/include/gdk-pixbuf-2.0 -I/usr/include/pango-1.0 -I/usr/
[08:08] <c2tarun> include/gio-unix-2.0/ -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/pixman-1 -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/usr/include/libpng12 -I/usr/include/libdrm   -DVERSION="\"0.6.1\"" darksnow.o interface.o config_files.o tooltips.o -o darksnow
[08:08] <c2tarun> oopps sorry
[08:08] <c2tarun> geser: http://paste.ubuntu.com/578222/
[08:11] <c2tarun> geser: what is a webview? where can i see a webview?
[08:11] <geser> c2tarun: sorry don't know, but my guess is that they come from the simple-patchsys
[08:11] <c2tarun> geser: ok, may be. thanks :)
[08:12] <geser> c2tarun: e.g. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/darksnow/natty/files
[08:12] <geser> you get there by following the "Code" tab on LP for a source package
[08:12] <c2tarun> geser: got it, strange there is nothing about these log files there.
[12:13] <dholbach> directhex, do you think somebody can commit the debian/control portion of https://code.launchpad.net/~bhaveekdesai-gmail/ubuntu/maverick/boo/bug-729855/+merge/52735 in Debian? O:-)
[12:16] <directhex> dholbach, at some point. doesn't seem a high-urgency item for a whole release, but it can go into packaging git
[12:16] <dholbach> directhex, awesome
[12:16]  * dholbach hugs directhex
[12:27] <acarpine> morning omniscent people! :)
[12:27] <acarpine> fixing bug and using bzr, I don't understand when to use bzr branch lp:<pkgname> and when to use bzr branch lp:ubuntu/<pkgname>
[12:28] <acarpine> Is there any general rule that I can use?
[12:30] <directhex> dholbach, boo's still in svn, which is scarily retro, committed anyway. at some point Laney will volunteer to do a new upstream update && move to git, which can result in new packages
[12:30] <dholbach> directhex, excellent!
[12:31] <geser> lp:<pkgname> is the upstream branch of a programm, lp:ubuntu/<pkgname> is the auto-imported packaging branch of it (assuming a package exists for it) based on the uploads to the archive
[12:31] <Ampelbein> acarpine: always use lp:ubuntu/pkgname (or ubuntu:pkgname), if you use lp:pkgname you get the PROJECT not the ubuntu package
[12:33] <acarpine> ampelbein: But I thought sometimes can be useful makes change the upstream project...
[12:34] <acarpine> ampelbein: I thought it depends on what i'm changing...
[12:36] <Ampelbein> acarpine: generally, if you want to change something for ubuntu, you use lp:ubuntu/pkg or ubuntu:pkg as branch. you only branch the project if upstream actually uses launchpad for code development (most don't).
[12:38] <acarpine> ampelbein: ok, so when a project use launchpad for code development I imagine is write in the launchpad page...correct?
[12:39] <Ampelbein> acarpine: yes, it should be on the launchpad project page
[12:42] <acarpine> Ampelbein: Really tks, I will use your rule of thumb!
[14:06]  * Laney eyes directhex
[14:06] <directhex> ?
[14:07] <Laney> boo! it's a terrifying beast
[14:08] <directhex> not too tricksy
[14:09] <Laney> does it want updating?
[14:10] <ari-tczew> hello
[16:52] <kmdm> Hi guys, was hoping for some advice... I've made a package that uses cdbs to install a python module & associated daemon script... however when it tries to start the daemon from postinst the python-central triggers haven't run so the module fails to import into python, the daemon fails to start and thus the package install fails... Is there a standard workaround for this? - thanks :)
[16:58] <tumbleweed> kmdm: yeah, manually do the necessary byte-compilation in postinst rather than waiting for the trigger. Also python-central is deprecated, use dh_python2
[17:08] <kmdm> tumbleweed: hm, thanks :) I'm only using whatever CDBS gives me so I'm assuming that'll be dh_python2 once that gets updated?
[17:16] <geser> kmdm: any reason using cdbs and not debhelper?
[17:21] <kmdm> geser: laziness? ;)
[17:41] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: merge-o-matic is working already, but I see no changes to lp:merge-o-matic. could you tell the secret how did you do it?
[17:57] <debfx> kklimonda: these qt buttons look quite native gtk to me: http://labs.qt.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screenshot-6.png
[20:07] <RoAkSoAx> zul: never mind found the error ;)
[20:28] <blueyed> What do you think about including a recent SVN snapshot for (exuberant-)ctags for natty? There are a lot of bugfixes, and no new release in sight.. (I have pinged the author about this a few days ago without any reply)
[20:28] <blueyed> I have prepared one based on the debian version in my ppa.
[20:51] <micahg> blueyed: if the snapshot is stable, why not?
[20:51] <micahg> blueyed: you're still need an FFe if there are new features
[20:52] <micahg> *you'll
[20:52] <blueyed> I have not checked the changelog in detail, just ran across bugs in the latest release several times in the last days.
[20:52] <blueyed> I have prepared a branch now, and will upload/ask-for-ffe it.
[20:53] <blueyed> given how essential ctags is, we should really push this.
[20:53] <micahg> blueyed: if the snapshot isn't stable, maybe backport some of the bugfixes
[20:53] <blueyed> ok
[20:58] <blueyed> I really hate FFe paperwork.. even when doing this for free, I would pay somebody 10€ to do it for me.. :/
[21:09] <ari-tczew> blueyed: write your views about bureaucracy to dholbach :)
[21:12] <blueyed> ari-tczew: do you think he would do it for 10€?
[21:12] <ari-tczew> blueyed: dunno, he might be an expensive employee :)
[21:22] <blueyed> great. it fails to build, but without any error apart from the binary not being existent: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/66079994/exuberant-ctags_5.9%7Esvn20110310-0ubuntu1-i386-20110310-2211 - hints? I'm off for some time, but will come back later.
[21:23] <ari-tczew> install: cannot stat `ctags': No such file or directory
[21:24] <ari-tczew> IMO dirs or d/rules needs fixing.
[21:43] <ari-tczew> ScottK: ping
[21:44] <blueyed> ari-tczew: well. it seems like the binary "ctags" does not get build and then cannot get installed.
[21:47] <blueyed> looks like the whole configure script is missing in the svn snapshot.
[21:48] <Ampelbein> blueyed: yes, but there should be a autogen.sh file to work the necessary automake/conf/libtool/aclocal-black-magic for you
[21:50] <blueyed> Ampelbein: no, there is none. I have taken the tar ball from http://ctags.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ctags/trunk/ (link at the bottom)
[21:56] <arand> Are wildcards availble in package.install files? Can I do excludes?
[21:57] <Ampelbein> blueyed: autotools-dev has an example autogen that should work fine. it just runs the other tools in order
[21:57] <ScottK> ari-tczew: Pong
[22:01] <blueyed> Ampelbein: shouldn't there something in the SVN source itself?
[22:01] <Ampelbein> blueyed: that would be considered nice to have, but isn't strictly needed I guess.
[22:02] <blueyed> Ampelbein: I do not have much experience in autotools land. Will look around. thanks.
[22:06] <blueyed> Ampelbein: How would I integrate this into the build process?
[22:06] <blueyed> or should I maybe just pick configure and other missing files from the last releasE?
[22:08] <Ampelbein> blueyed: the easiest way would be to run the autogen, make distclean, and repack that as orig.tar.gz
[22:24] <blueyed> Ampelbein: not so easy apparently. I am getting some help in #geany now - in case you want to join us.. ツ
[22:25] <Ampelbein> let me get that tarball and have a look ;-)
[22:30] <Ampelbein> blueyed: do you have your packaging somewhere?
[22:32] <blueyed> Ampelbein: lp:~blueyed/ubuntu/natty/exuberant-ctags/upstream-snapshot - b4n in #geany could successfully build it now however.
[22:33] <Ampelbein> blueyed: yeah, me too. I just wanted to get the packaging to see how well it integrates
[22:33] <Ampelbein> switching to geany
[23:24] <blueyed> in case anyone wants too look/vote for the ctags upstream freeze exception: see bug 732860


[09:32] <pstft> Hi. I've come across a bug related to the *lock screen* in *Kubuntu 15.10*. The bot from Launchpad is asking me to specify the related package. However, the Ubuntu wiki isn't especially helpful ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingScreenLocking/HowScreenLockingWorks#KDE_.28Kubuntu.29 ). Could someone tell me what the related package is?


[01:22] <darkxst> robert_ancell, was there some reason why you didnt just sync gnome-documents from Debian?
[01:22] <robert_ancell> darkxst, didn't check the debian version - can sync
[01:24] <robert_ancell> darkxst, done
[01:26] <darkxst> thanks
[04:32] <nabn> anyone here experience gnome-shell taking up ~100% cpu more often than not? I wonder what's that about..
[06:20] <nabn> so dark in here..
[06:21] <mgedmin> gnome-shell eating all cpu?  I don't think I've ever seen that
[06:21] <mgedmin> the obvious 1st question is: do you have any shell extensions enabled?
[06:21] <mgedmin> the 2nd question is: are you using hardware 3d rendering or llvmpipe?
[06:24] <mgedmin> and if the two questions don't provide any clues, it's probably time to pull out a profiler
[06:24] <mgedmin> is there any sysprof-like gui for perf/oprofile, I wonder?
[06:25] <nabn> mgedmin: i do have a couple extensions. tried disabling them, but can't be sure if it worked, coz the problem is  not consistent.
[06:27] <nabn> mgedmin: htop output right now: http://imgur.com/rQjWX6m
[06:29] <darkxst> Noskcaj, can you merge gnome-desktop3?
[06:29] <Noskcaj> darkxst, to xenial or ppa?
[06:30] <darkxst> xenial
[06:30] <Noskcaj> ok, i should be able to get to that later
[06:34] <darkxst> Noskcaj, thanks, i've done mutter/shell/g-s-d so far
[08:31] <mgedmin> gnome-calendar (wily/universe) seems rather broken (segfaults on startup after failing to build a template class GcalWindow)
[08:32] <mgedmin> can anyone confirm?
[08:32] <darkxst> mgedmin, crashed here on xenial
[08:32] <mgedmin> rather, can anyone who has a stock 15.10 without the -staging ppa confirm?
[08:34]  * mgedmin files https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-calendar/+bug/1510830
[09:39] <mgedmin> (I want to test the hypothesis that gnome-calendar crash might be caused by gnome-calendar 3.16 using libraries from gnome 3.18)
[09:39] <mgedmin> (I should probably set up a chroot or something -- but I don't think I have enough free disk space for that)
[09:43] <darkxst> mgedmin, it works in clean wily install
[09:44] <darkxst> 3.18 should sync to xenial now, e-d-s is going through
[09:46]  * mgedmin updates bug with quotes from IRC
[10:54] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> Hello.
[10:55] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> Is it possible to change the dns servers while running a wifi connection without disconnecting?
[10:55] <darkxst> j4s0nmchr1st0s, yes should be
[10:55] <darkxst> just edit the wifi network and network-manager should update them for you
[10:56] <darkxst> on the fly
[10:56] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> in this case it runs on the pub tor net so use check.torproject.org just as or browser does.
[10:56] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> darkxst: no looking at connection info it stays the same
[10:57] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> secondary dns unchanged
[10:58] <darkxst> j4s0nmchr1st0s, maybe a bug, though I generally just edit /etc/resolv.conf if I need a temporary dns change
[10:58] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> darkxst: doesn't ubuntu gnome have the loopback resolver?
[10:59] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> the nameservers are stored somwhere else
[10:59] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> possibly in the memory of NetworkManage
[11:00] <darkxst> yes, but i am talking temporary 1off changes, that I probably want gone next time I reconnect
[11:04] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> ok then I have to add all three
[11:19] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> darkxst: looks like it doesn't cycle
[11:19] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> if it is appended
[11:19] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> And also guessing there is some hardcoded nameservers in network manager if it decides to function like this.
[11:20] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> It is really trying to bypass the system resolver/
[11:20] <darkxst> nameservers can come from about 5 different places depending on your config
[11:21] <darkxst> but /etc/resolv.conf should be the definitive ones, just any changes get overwritten any time you reconnect
[11:22] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> should, it isn't cycling
[11:26] <darkxst> idk
[11:26]  * darkxst sleeps
[13:39] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> darkxst clown the dns is not cycling
[13:40] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> it only uses the loopback
[13:40] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> even with the dns added to NetworkManager
[13:41] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> Whatever the loopback is using it isn't including the secondary dns results
[13:50] <mgedmin> dns is complicated
[13:51] <mgedmin> (on ubuntu)
[13:51] <mgedmin> there's /etc/resolv.conf, which ought to be a symlink pointing to a file managed either by resolvconf or by network-manager
[13:51] <mgedmin> then you might or might not have a local dnsmasq installed
[13:51] <mgedmin> then you might or might not have resolvconf installed
[13:52] <mgedmin> and then network-manager runs its own copy of dnsmasq
[13:54] <mgedmin> afaiu the network-manager-managed dnsmasq listens on <IP_ADDRESS>
[13:54] <mgedmin> and forwards the queries to upstream DNS servers/implements split dns/whatever
[13:54] <mgedmin> so things to test: is /etc/resolv.conf pointing to <IP_ADDRESS>?
[13:54] <mgedmin> if you query manually (host example.com <IP_ADDRESS>), do you get the result you expect?
[14:00] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> yes so it is not even using the secondary and tertiary servers
[14:00] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> for that matter it may not even use the primary
[14:01] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> I shall have to watch netstat later.
[14:02] <mgedmin> "The algorithm used is to try a name server, and if the query times out, try the next"
[14:02] <mgedmin> but usually queries don't time out, instead you get a NXDOMAIN response
[14:16] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> mgedmin: it used to cycle
[14:17] <j4s0nmchr1st0s> mgedmin: looks like ubuntu is devolving
[14:18] <mgedmin> "it" == the glibc resolver?
[16:13] <mgedmin> hm
[16:13] <mgedmin> since I upgraded to wily I notice this again:
[16:13] <mgedmin> when I wake up my sleeping laptop (by opening the lid), I briefly see my desktop session before the lock screen appears
[16:13] <mgedmin> I don't remember this in vivid
[16:13] <mgedmin> I do remember how this used to annoy me at some point in the past before vivid
[17:11] <kerdel> Hi
[19:45] <Noskcaj> darkxst, can you please sync gnome-mahjongg
[19:47] <Noskcaj> also tali
[20:17] <th3s3_3y3s> usermod -G group -a group USER doesn't work, what can be used to look and see all groups on the system or look for a specific group?
[20:38] <darkxst> Noskcaj, done
[22:40] <th3s3_3y3s> Is there a metapackage for ubuntu-gnome?


[11:05] <bluesabre> knome: Should this bug forever hang around as "Confirmed"?
[11:05] <bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1314153
[11:06] <brainwash> it's not even an actual bug, or?
[11:10] <knome> bluesabre, it shouldn't, we should fix it
[11:10] <bluesabre> not sure I understand the problem... this is how all ubuntu release upgrades work
[11:11] <bluesabre> or am I mistaken?
[11:11] <knome> ok, so:
[11:11] <knome> 1) user installs xubuntu
[11:12] <knome> 2) user purges abiword, which in turn removes xubuntu-desktop
[11:12] <knome> 3) user upgrades, abiword is installed
[11:12] <knome> that *is* a bug
[11:12] <knome> iirc abiword and gnumeric were the things that this concerned
[11:13] <knome> there is no way to keep the xubuntu default settings packge (and get all the nice branding) but not install abiword on every upgrade
[11:14] <bluesabre> xubuntu-default-settings doesn't depend on xubuntu-desktop or abiword
[11:14] <knome> i can set up a testing environment at some point
[11:15] <knome> all you have to do to test this is install, remove abiword, and upgrade
[11:16] <knome> actually, since i seem to have trusty images, let me try this
[11:16] <ali1234> that's always been a bug
[11:17] <brainwash> xubuntu-desktop only recommends abiword, so I guess that the upgrade process just reinstalls all the recommended packages
[11:17] <knome> bluesabre, but the user doesn't have xubuntu-desktop if they removed abiword.
[11:17] <knome> brainwash, ^
[11:17] <ali1234> it's the reason why you can install ubuntu -> apt-get xubuntu-desktop -> do-release-upgrade, and then sudden your install has turned into xubuntu
[11:18] <knome> but this is not about having xubuntu-desktop
[11:18] <bluesabre> its not about xubuntu-default-settings either, this is a bug in ubuntu-release-upgrader
[11:18] <knome> so how does ubuntu-release-upgrader figure out that it wants to install me xubuntu-dekstop stuff?
[11:19] <bluesabre> dunno, looking into it now
[11:19] <knome> ta
[11:19] <knome> if you need testing, tell me
[11:19] <knome> i'll boot a trusty vm up soon to try this as well
[11:19] <knome> and do an upgrade test while i'm on it
[11:19] <knome> it's just that i need to zsync half of the trusty image :P
[11:25] <bluesabre> :)
[11:25] <bluesabre> also, "Acid pink" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bug/1374533
[11:25] <bluesabre> :D
[11:25] <knome> yess
[11:26] <elfy> hippies
[11:26] <knome> ;)
[11:26] <elfy> :)
[11:26] <knome> elfy, soon doing an upgrade test with amd64, woohoo ;)
[11:26] <elfy> I saw
[11:26] <knome> only a tad late. ;)
[11:27] <elfy> don't worry too much - I've decided to care as much about testing as everyone else
[11:27] <knome> that's probably a good attitude for this cycle
[11:27] <elfy> mmm
[11:27] <knome> hmm
[11:27] <bluesabre> knome: for the upgrade bug, I see that it was originally set for ubuntu-release-upgrader, but you changed it to xubuntu-default-settings?
[11:27] <elfy> shame that much of team had the same attitude last cycle
[11:28] <knome> did trusty have the black bg bug previously too?
[11:28] <knome> elfy, that is
[11:28] <elfy> knome: at one point yes - xnox was in here talking about it iirc
[11:28] <knome> bluesabre, apparently so ;)
[11:28] <knome> ok, since i have it with the daily
[11:28] <elfy> yea
[11:29] <elfy> there is a bug report for it knome
[11:29] <knome> i know
[11:29] <knome> just digging it up
[11:29] <brainwash> I remember bugging xnox with this background bug
[11:29] <elfy> aaah - nvm - iirc wrongly
[11:30] <elfy> last time we had a debian background
[11:30] <knome> yes
[11:30] <elfy> but it does go wrong during every cycle I've had anything to do with testing wise
[11:31] <knome> elfy, that's sad thing to happen
[11:31] <knome> we even changed our wallpaper to be a symlink
[11:31] <knome> to avoid having to change paths in various packages
[11:31] <knome> but now it seems to have some other issue
[11:31] <elfy> I remember that conversation
[11:32] <elfy> so - something is still up with it then - if we've not changed then I guess it's something to do with making everything ok for some phone somewhere
[11:32] <knome> heh
[11:33] <knome> now that we've landed that and seen some bug reports coming in, do we still think it's fine to edit existing installations to have the pink highlight?
[11:33] <knome> it's far more obvious that it's a release-specific thing when you install 14.10, but it can be a bit weird to upgrade to such
[11:34] <elfy> well given that people read release notes as much as topics/stickies - I say change it - perhaps they will read next time ;)
[11:35] <knome> heh
[11:35] <knome> i don't think that helps,
[11:35] <knome> two people have already taken the time to file a bug instead of reading the release announcement ;)
[11:36] <elfy> you're not surprised surely?
[11:36] <knome> the installation should probably wipe out all their data until they learned to read the release notes, but implementing THAT would be a bit too brutal
[11:36] <knome> of course i'm not surprised
[11:37] <elfy> it does do that if they choose the wrong option ;)
[11:37] <knome> lol
[11:37] <knome> true
[11:38] <elfy> bug 1265192 :)
[11:38] <knome> yep, seen that
[11:39] <elfy> imo unless the installer comes with an autopilot like Airplane then people will always read what they *think* it says
[11:40] <knome> hehe
[11:40] <knome> yep...
[11:40] <knome> great, done zsyncing utopic amd64
[11:41] <knome> ...aaaand i386
[11:48] <knome> bluesabre, confirming:
[11:49] <knome> 1) clean install, purge abiword, gnumeric and xubuntu-desktop
[11:49] <knome> 2) start upgrade: proposes to install abiword, gnumeric and xubuntu-desktop
[11:49] <knome> what's pulling these in?
[11:50] <bluesabre> Pretty sure its the release upgrader.  Otherwise removing a single app from anything would mean never getting any more new/replaced packages on upgrade.
[11:51] <bluesabre> considering Ubuntu knows how you installed it, this doesn't seem so unlikely
[11:51] <bluesabre> "InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 14.04 LTS "Trusty Tahr" - Release i386 (20140416.2)"
[11:51] <knome> sure.
[11:51] <knome> but still, i fail to see the logic why it wants to force those packages on me
[11:52] <bluesabre> I'll check out the source code, 430 open bugs is a bit much to wade through
[11:52] <knome> doing another test.
[11:54] <bluesabre> env variables...
[11:54] <bluesabre> RELEASE_UPGRADE_NO_FORCE_OVERWRITE:
[11:54] <bluesabre> - if that is set, no --force-overwrite is used
[11:54] <bluesabre> could be useful
[11:55] <knome> hmm
[12:01] <bluesabre> Yeah, I think it auto-detects based on dependencies... https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/ubuntu-release-upgrader/utopic/view/head:/data/DistUpgrade.cfg#L63
[12:02] <bluesabre> still digging around
[12:02] <bluesabre> this thing is huge
[12:04] <brainwash> ubuntu-release-upgrader is not just a normal upgrade tool, it's actually "smart" :)
[12:05] <bluesabre> I think it makes sense though... Are you running xubuntu 14.04 if you removed xubuntu desktop in 6.06 and then upgraded your way without picking up any of our new packages?
[12:05] <bluesabre> you'd still be listening to music with listen
[12:07] <bluesabre> I wouldn't want to support that upgrade
[12:07] <brainwash> yeah, not a bug after all, the upgrade process is intended to work this way
[12:07] <bluesabre> knome: thoughts?
[12:07] <brainwash> moreover, it's not xubuntu specific
[12:07] <bluesabre> right
[12:09] <bluesabre> maybe the program could be extended with a new KeepRemovedPackages
[12:09] <bluesabre> but I can imagine that being kludgey
[12:22] <knome> bluesabre, did you try what NO_FORCE_OVERWRITE actually does?
[12:22] <bluesabre> I did not
[12:22] <knome> bluesabre, well, users can install listen even if it wasn't pulled in
[12:22] <bluesabre> I know
[12:23] <knome> i mean, it really isn't much different from supporting any system with random packages the user needs
[12:23] <bluesabre> so if somebody removes abiword in 13.10, they should not get light-locker in 14.04?
[12:23] <knome> bluesabre, no, they should not get abiword in 13.10
[12:23] <knome> err, in 14.04..
[12:24] <knome> tiger
[12:24] <knome> hmm
[12:24] <knome> there you go, my testing password
[12:24] <elfy> longer than test
[12:24] <knome> yes, and much more imagination-requiring! :P
[12:24] <bluesabre> but yeah, not a bug in xubuntu-default-settings, a bug in ubuntu-release-upgrader
[12:24] <knome> and harder to type
[12:25] <elfy> :)
[12:26] <bluesabre> because ultimately we're dealing with apt, so the upgrader would need to be extended to diff a base install, see whats missing, and remove that after upgrade
[12:26] <knome> bluesabre, or simply just not install removed packages
[12:26]  * bluesabre is not volunteering
[12:26] <knome> that are recommended
[12:28] <knome> yes, doing "export RELEASE_UPGRADE_NO_FORCE_OVERWRITE=true" gives me the expected results (from my pov)
[12:28] <knome> of course it's a problem if we need new packages to be installed
[12:29] <knome> but IMO it's also a problem if the user is forced to install software they removed
[12:29] <knome> d
[12:29] <elfy> not really sure it's that much of a problem
[12:30] <knome> to me, it is a problem
[12:30] <knome> if i purge abiword and gnumeric, that means i do not want them
[12:30] <knome> ever.
[12:30] <elfy> I want xchat - always ;)
[12:30] <knome> and it's stupid that i'm forced to get those back on every upgrade, and use my time and bandwidth
[12:34] <knome> ok, another problem
[12:34] <bluesabre> lol
[12:34] <knome> now i can't revert the env var, even if i unset
[12:34] <knome> bluesabre, what are you lolling at? :P
[12:35] <bluesabre> knome: you're complaining a lot about this app to folks that don't develop this app ;)
[12:35] <knome> bluesabre, stuff happens... and really, i'm just laying out my own thoughts, and want feedback from you
[12:35] <knome> and want to know if you consider it as a problem
[12:36] <knome> or if it's best for me to shut down
[12:36] <bluesabre> I don't consider it such a problem. Sure, you're getting things back that you removed, which is a pain
[12:36] <knome> bluesabre, fwiw, even with the no force overwrite bit, i'm getting new packages
[12:37] <knome> like greybird-gtk-theme
[12:37] <bluesabre> But, if the user removes a lot of things, they probably don't really want xubuntu
[12:37] <knome> so it's not like i'm falling behing because i don't have xubuntu-desktop
[12:37] <bluesabre> shimmer-themes broke out into the individual themes for 14.10
[12:37] <knome> yes
[12:37] <knome> which is what i'm saying...
[12:38] <bluesabre> shimmer-themes is an empty file now, you're going to get replacements
[12:38] <knome> i still get that update
[12:38] <knome> even if i don't have xubuntu-desktop
[12:38] <bluesabre> right
[12:38] <knome> what else new packages do we have?
[12:38] <knome> i get inxi too.
[12:39] <knome> for some reason, build-essential is installed for me, but whatever, that's a minor issue.
[12:39] <knome> (this is a clean trusty update, with abiword/gnumeric/xubuntu-desktop purged)
[12:39] <bluesabre> yup
[12:39] <knome> err, trusty install .P
[12:39] <bluesabre> its still an upgrade
[12:39] <bluesabre> so you're getting xubuntu 14.10
[12:39] <knome> exactly
[12:39] <knome> without the packages i don't want
[12:39] <bluesabre> not ubuntu + xfce 14.10
[12:39] <knome> so once i've upgraded,
[12:39] <knome> i'm still using xubuntu
[12:40] <knome> not an anomaly of a system we don't want to support, as you implied before ;)
[12:40] <knome> i'm not saying we should *encourage* people to use this method
[12:40] <knome> but i think it's fair to have it
[12:40] <knome> i guess another possibility is...
[12:40] <bluesabre> so you get everything except abiword/gnumeric in this case?
[12:40] <knome> is there a way to pin a package in a way that it never gets installed?
[12:40] <knome> i believe so
[12:41] <knome> it's hard to compare the lists since i can't revert the var :P
[12:41] <knome> which is one argument against it
[12:41] <knome> let me do a quickish reinstall...
[12:42] <knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8447482/
[12:42] <knome> that's the list with the bit set
[12:43] <bluesabre> cool
[12:43] <knome> so again, it's not like that's a broken system after that
[12:43] <knome> not sure how that would work out if one did many many upgrades
[12:55] <knome> ok, let's see what the list looks like without the bit
[12:55] <knome> dun dun dun dun dun
[12:56] <knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8447565/
[12:57] <bluesabre> neat
[12:58] <bluesabre> want to add a comment to that bug report then?
[12:58] <knome> not yet
[12:58] <knome> i'll need to check something else as well
[12:58] <knome> and i'm not sure if i want to mention that on a bug report with no disclaimers
[12:59] <knome> actually, i think i know a much better variant
[12:59] <knome> pin the package name with priority -1, and even the upgrader won't install it
[12:59] <knome> now, sure, people can break their systems BADLY with this
[13:00] <knome> but at least there's an easy fix... remove pins and upgrade
[13:02] <knome> the thing that scares me about the bit you mentioned is that it's hardly documented all (try googling with the name!) and all references seem to be really old
[14:00] <bluesabre> its in the README
[14:00] <bluesabre> :)
[14:01] <bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/ubuntu-release-upgrader/utopic/view/head:/DistUpgrade/README
[14:19] <knome> bluesabre, right, then that just didn't pop up in the search results (or i missed it)
[16:32]  * vertz pokes brainwash
[16:38] <brainwash> hi vertz
[16:40] <vertz> hey
[18:30] <vertz> why is synclient set to VertEdgeScroll = 1 when you have two finger scroll enable?
[18:30] <vertz> and also
[18:31] <vertz> ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/pointers.xml has some odd values
[18:31] <vertz> which make you accidently paste whatever you have on clipboard all over the place
[18:31] <vertz> this goes for laptops of course
[18:33] <vertz> synaptics_tap_action array should be set to [0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
[21:08] <vertz> hehe
[21:24] <knome> hmm?
[23:08] <Unit193> Shiny, es is almost there.


[00:38] <pkh> hey all. I just upgraded to 13.04 and something's changed that I can't fix. byobu when run from lxde is running in xterm instead of lxterminal. if I ctrl-alt-T I get lxterminal, so the default terminal is correct. and I can't see any settings or byobu that are forcing xterm. completely stumped.
[00:46] <fowl> pkh, echo $TERM ?
[00:50] <pkh> within byobu, 'screen;
[00:50] <pkh> 'screen'...
[00:51] <pkh> xterm-shell = /usr/bin/byobu-launger
[00:51] <pkh> sorry, cold fingers... spelling will be nasty.
[00:51] <fowl> idk sry
[00:52] <pkh> np, thanks
[00:52] <pkh> will force it somehow
[00:54] <pkh> half tempted to mv xterm to xtrerm.off and put in a symbolic link to lxterminal -- just worried what else that might disrupt.
[00:54] <pkh> will try it
[00:55] <pkh> did the job, now to wait for somethign else to screw up :)
[01:32] <deckard> Hello. If my game gets better FPS using XFCE, does it stand to reason it will get even better using Lubuntu?
[01:32] <deckard> or at the least it wont harm the performance ?
[04:00] <practice> older PC, lubuntu 12.10 installed. had internet last night now browsers won't connect. Oddly, Skype is connected. What an I do to resume my internet connection.
[06:45] <Vidya> Hi there. I was wondering if I could get some assistance with VisualBoy Advance and my game controller (philips sgc2910bb/27). It's not working with this emulator, I can't confiure buttons and such. It works for the emulators I run in WINE, however -- No$GBA, and Project64.
[06:45] <fowl> [part
[07:00] <Vidya> Anyone? The device is detected by Linux, I just don't understand how it isn't working with a Linux program, but works with WINE without any troubles.
[12:34] <popey> I have lubuntu on my ac100, when the screensaver kicks in, if I wiggle the mouse or whatever, it never wakes again.
[12:41] <popey> hmm. switching to tty0 and back seems to have woken it
[14:25] <holstein> popey: not cool! ...what graphics are in that? is the issue isolated to LXDE?
[14:25] <popey> nvidia tegra
[14:26] <popey> it seems intermittent
[14:27] <holstein> popey: great.. that makes it more of a drag to pinpoint... you are on the most recent kernel i assume.. you could try booting ealier kernels as well
[14:28] <popey> it's on 3.1.10-6-ac100
[14:38] <xxxxx> hi everyone
[14:39] <xxxxx> I have a toshiba laptop, running lubuntu 13.04, but fan is NOT working correctly
[14:39] <xxxxx> how can I deal with it
[14:41] <holstein> xxxxx: what fan? i would confirm that its not a hardware issue.. i would then look for and apply all upgrades
[14:42] <xxxxx> uhm, I'm not sure. It is biggest fan
[14:42] <xxxxx> my problem is my laptop is too hot
[14:43] <holstein> xxxxx: sure.. i would do this.. remove the operating system from the scenario as much as possible.. i think you are assuming the issue is with lubuntu (and it could be) but it also could be a bad fan or motherboard component
[14:43] <xxxxx> but if I hibernate and restart laptop when it's hot, that fan will run continuously, never stop
[14:44] <xxxxx> I've searched on google, it shows something like kernel patch, but too complicated
[14:45] <holstein> xxxxx: i usually try other kernels from live CD's, after confirming its not a hardware issue, and applying all upgrades
[14:46] <xxxxx> oh, I already upgrades, but your idea about trying diff kernels is interested
[14:47] <xxxxx> thanks, I will try that, maybe with diff distros too
[14:48] <holstein> i usually try the latest LTS ubuntu, and knoppix's latest.. and the current ubuntu
[15:28] <n-iCe> hello
[22:57] <_KY_> How can I install xchat in lubuntu 13.04?
[22:58] <aqil> sudo apt-get install xchat
[22:58] <_KY_> "Unable to locate package xchat"
[23:00] <_KY_> There are also no new apps in Lubuntu Software Center
[23:01] <_KY_> Perhaps I should install another desktop?
[23:01] <binaryhermit> check to see if you have the "universe" repositories enabled
[23:01] <Unit193> _KY_: Try  sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install xchat
[23:02] <_KY_> Oh I see...
[23:02] <_KY_> Doing update
[23:03] <_KY_> Can I also install konversation on lubuntu?
[23:04] <n-iCe> install irssi
[23:04] <Unit193> You can if you want, but has heavy depends.
[23:04] <_KY_> irssi is not window-based?
[23:04] <binaryhermit> irssi is command-line
[23:05] <_KY_> I want a window-based client
[23:09] <n-iCe> use xchat then
[23:09] <_KY_> Got it =)
[23:11] <n-iCe> you like it?
[23:11] <_KY_> I have used it before
[23:11] <_KY_> It's ok
[23:12] <_KY_> I mainly use mIRC on windows
[23:12] <_KY_> Looking for something similar
[23:12] <_KY_> Especially with respect to scripting
[23:19] <_KY_> What would happen if I use a KDE-based chat program?
[23:24] <n-iCe> will suck
[23:24] <n-iCe> you will not find any thing with mIRC scripting.
[23:24] <n-iCe> If you don't want to leave mIRC and move on, use wine and install mIRC.
[23:24] <_KY_> I'm willing to leave mIRC =)
[23:26] <n-iCe> irssi
[23:26] <n-iCe> *G*
[23:27] <_KY_> Why would people prefer a command-line chat program?
[23:27] <_KY_> How do you keep track of different chat windows?
[23:27] <_KY_> And look at the nick list?
[23:37] <n-iCe> you should try
[23:37] <n-iCe> and learn
[23:41] <Myrtti> Nicklist is overrated
[23:41] <n-iCe> that's why we have /names
[23:42] <Myrtti> indeed
[23:43] <Unit193> /anames ! :D