[22:52] <Alexion> Hello! How can I check the speed of my wifi connection?
[23:44] <arraybolt3> Alexion: I usually use Google's Internet Speed test.
[23:45] <arraybolt3> Alexion: Just Google "internet speed test" in Firefox or your browser of choice, and it will give you a button you can click to test your speed.
[23:45] <arraybolt3> Alexion: If you're trying to test the WiFi speed itself as opposed to the Internet speed, that may be a bit tricker and you'll want two devices to do that with.


[14:18] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: Are you going to be able to look at __builtin__ (i.e. https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/310432) this week, or shall I pick up work on it?
[14:19] <smoser> Odd_Bloke, if you can make tests pass, then i'm good with it in trunk
[14:19] <smoser> but, no. i wont get there. right now i'm workingon
[14:19] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1611074
[14:19] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: OK, cool, I'll look at the tests.
[14:19] <smoser> and i'll hope to have some review from you on that...
[14:19] <smoser> its kind of a pita
[14:19] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: Ugh, that bug.
[14:19] <smoser> the code that was there has always been racy
[14:20] <smoser> i do think that i have a reasonable plan
[14:20] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: FYI, I'm out tomorrow, Monday and Tuesday.
[14:20] <smoser> you're on UTC hours or are you on this continent now.
[14:21] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: UTC at the moment, flying to that continent tomorrow and back on Monday.
[14:21] <smoser> fun weekend.
[14:22] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, I'm having to do a quick trip to activate my permanent residency.
[14:39] <smoser> Odd_Bloke, that doesnt really make sense.
[14:39] <smoser> :)
[14:39] <Odd_Bloke> :)
[14:39] <Odd_Bloke> Being with my Canadian wife (anywhere in the world) counts as "resident".
[14:40] <Odd_Bloke> And my medical expires in December, so I'm having to make a trip before that.
[15:58] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: Oops, you'll just have got a huge email from LP because of me; proposed merging my tests to your branch having forgotten that I rebased on to master. ¬.¬
[15:58] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: https://code.launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/311164 is your commit with an additional commit fixing the tests.
[15:59] <smoser> Odd_Bloke, nice. thank you!
[16:43] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: smoser: the "ephemeral0" disk in azure is mapped how? /dev/disk/by-label? by-id ?  ie, what sort of kpath would such a device have ?
[16:44] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: cloud-init ships udev rules that make it appear at /dev/disk/cloud/azure_resource
[16:45] <rharper> ok, lemme read those rules
[16:45] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: That's only post-trusty, before xenial walinuxagent ships rules which name them slightly differently.
[16:46] <Odd_Bloke> (Well, I think walinuxagent still ships those rules)
[16:46] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: ok, would you be able to get me access to a trusty and xenial instance in azure?  I'm poking at a disk formatting and mounting bug there, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1642383
[16:48] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: On it.
[16:48] <rharper> thanks
[16:51] <Odd_Bloke> rharper<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:52] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: And<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:52] <Odd_Bloke> I'll leave you to work out which one is which suite. ;)
[16:53] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: thanks!
[16:53] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: I'm heading off for vacation, so could you shutdown the machines when you're done with them?
[16:54] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: yes!
[16:54] <Odd_Bloke> Danke. :)
[18:58] <rharper> smoser: looks like we'll need this https://code.launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/cloud-init/lp1460715  to fix disk_setup partitioning under xenial (sfdisk changes in 16.04)
[19:02] <smoser> rharper, yeah, there are other issues... i hope/expect to fix that bug with what i have for the other
[19:02] <smoser> part of my motivation to have you look at that one was so you'd understand my changes coming here.
[19:02] <smoser> and why they should work for both
[19:03] <smoser> but yea... using that dynamic path is part of this.
[19:03] <rharper> k
[19:03] <smoser> as well as making sure we wait for the device to appear
[19:03] <rharper> right, that's a 16.04 ism w.r.t kernel partition awareness under systemd
[19:03] <rharper> that sounded like the kpartx thingy
[19:06] <rharper> smoser: would really like to replace the cc_mounts/cc_disk_setup with curtin backends  but that's not going to happen right now
[19:10] <smoser> rharper, yeah. that is absolutely true
[19:11] <smoser> and additionally we need to be able to take disk config in curtin like format.
[19:11] <rharper> y
[19:11] <rharper> another thing for the roadmap =)
[19:12] <rharper> the 33, 66, 88 thingy isn't non-parseable unless you read the help documentation, so moving to a more helpful format would be nice
[19:53] <smoser> rharper,
[19:53] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/311205
[19:53] <smoser> Odd_Bloke, ^ also
[19:54] <rharper> +            if os.path.isfile(devpath + suff + "2"):
[19:55] <rharper> that seems off, what if there are 3 ?
[19:55] <rharper> also, I think it's possible to have un-ordered partitions (gpt) for example
[19:55] <smoser> well, it woudl fail if there was a partition 1 and partition 3 but *not* a partition 2
[19:55] <rharper> which is possible
[19:55] <smoser> (you can do that with mbr also)
[19:55] <smoser> yeah, it is hueristic for sure.
[19:55] <smoser> i could probably use a function in disk_setup
[19:56] <smoser> but this was what i did initially
[19:56] <rharper> we have a sysfs device partition counting in curtin
[19:56] <smoser> yeah, but that wont work on non-linux
[19:57] <smoser> the sfdisk stuff in disk_ probably would
[19:57] <rharper> not with -L Linux
[19:57] <smoser> so yeah, thats not the greatest bit of code, but it is better than what *was* there.
[19:57] <rharper> oh sure; I just don't know how far we want to go here
[19:57] <smoser> -L linux isn't "linux specific stuff"
[19:57] <rharper> hehe
[19:57] <smoser> its just "dont complaina bout stuff linux doesnt care about"
[19:58] <rharper> well, it's deprecated anyhow
[19:58] <smoser> the code that was there before didn't even check for a second partition at all
[19:58] <rharper> but, it *is* linux specific
[19:58] <smoser> !
[19:58] <smoser> ?
[19:58] <smoser> i suspect that sfdisk -L works on freebsd
[19:58] <rharper> Stderr: "sfdisk: --Linux option is unnecessary and deprecated\nsfdisk: unsupported unit 'M'\n"
[19:58] <rharper> in 16.04
[19:59] <rharper> upstream util-linux changed
[19:59] <rharper> in 2014 or so
[19:59] <smoser> ah. right
[20:01] <rharper> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1460715  is still needed for partitioning on xenial
[20:03] <rharper> the can_dev_be_reformatted is specifically there to help reprevent dataloss if someone "used" the disk ...
[20:04] <rharper> certainly it's possible to populate it the ntfs existing partition though?  we can't protect against that?
[20:11] <smoser> rharper, if there are files on it, we leave it alone
[20:11] <smoser> (other tahn the DATALOSS_ file)
[20:11] <rharper> ok, I'm posting comments, the msg on the return True, is confusing
[20:17] <smoser> rharper, addressed that.. you're right. i
[20:17] <smoser> it should have said no important files
[20:17] <rharper> I thought so after reading the rest of the code
[20:18] <rharper> and I switch to util.log_time should be easy and announce the wait on the log
[20:18] <smoser> i think i  might be racing systemd and mount now.
[20:18] <rharper> I've had several folks ask about making sure cloud-init announces when it's blocking ( which I think it does most of the time) but we need to do that here too
[20:19] <smoser> rharper<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:19] <smoser> er... smoser@
[20:19] <rharper> ok
[20:20] <smoser> byobu or /var/log/cloud-init.log
[20:20] <smoser> mount -a failed as already mounted.
[20:20] <smoser> which should not happen until
[20:20] <smoser> defaults,nofail,x-systemd.requires=cloud-init.service,comment=cloudconfig
[20:20] <rharper> urg
[20:21] <smoser> maybe in new systemd world, a mount-a is going to fail in that scenario... i'm not sure, but i'm pretty sure it should *not* fail with already mounted
[20:21] <rharper> Nov 17 20:11:02 repro3 systemd[1]: Mounting /mnt...
[20:21] <rharper> Nov 17 20:11:02 repro3 systemd[1]: Mounted /mnt.
[20:21] <rharper> Warning: mnt.mount changed on disk. Run 'systemctl daemon-reload' to reload units.
[20:22] <rharper> $ journalctl -o short-precise --unit mnt.mount
[20:22] <rharper> -- Logs begin at Thu 2016-11-17 20:10:56 UTC, end at Thu 2016-11-17 20:22:01 UTC. --
[20:22] <rharper> Nov 17 20:11:01.513996 repro3 systemd[1]: Unmounted /mnt.
[20:22] <rharper> Nov 17 20:11:02.345932 repro3 systemd[1]: Mounting /mnt...
[20:22] <rharper> Nov 17 20:11:02.820894 repro3 systemd[1]: Mounted /mnt.
[20:22] <rharper> check the timestamps with cloud-init log
[20:22] <smoser> well, the timestamps suck
[20:22] <rharper> Nov 17 20:11:02.868532 repro3 cloud-init[1037]: 2016-11-17 20:11:01,686 - util.py[WARNING]: Activating mounts via 'mount -a' failed
[20:22] <rharper> journalctl -o short-precise --unit cloud-init.service
[20:22] <rharper> will get you real timestamps
[20:23] <rharper> so, we were too late
[20:23] <smoser> you want short-monotonic here
[20:23] <rharper> as you said
[20:23] <rharper> sure
[20:23] <rharper> that too
[20:23] <smoser> as clock runs all over :)
[20:23] <rharper> hrm
[20:23] <rharper> that shows something different then
[20:24] <rharper> ~$ journalctl -o short-monotonic --unit cloud-init.service | grep mount
[20:24] <rharper> [   15.757407] repro3 cloud-init[1037]: 2016-11-17 20:11:01,686 - util.py[WARNING]: Activating mounts via 'mount -a' failed
[20:24] <rharper> smoser@repro3:~$ journalctl -o short-monotonic --unit mnt.mount
[20:24] <rharper> -- Logs begin at Thu 2016-11-17 20:10:56 UTC, end at Thu 2016-11-17 20:22:01 UTC. --
[20:24] <rharper> [   14.406073] repro3 systemd[1]: Unmounted /mnt.
[20:24] <rharper> [   19.680401] repro3 systemd[1]: Mounting /mnt...
[20:24] <rharper> [   19.750265] repro3 systemd[1]: Mounted /mnt.
[20:24] <rharper> something is lieing
[20:24] <rharper> but it does seem like if we update fstab, we may need to systemctl daemon-reload
[20:24] <rharper> so generators trigger
[20:24] <rharper> which would do the fstab generator
[20:24] <rharper> and do the mount for us
[20:24] <rharper> IIUC
[20:25] <smoser> right. thats possible.
[20:26] <smoser> but both the old and the new fstab entry had not before cloud-init.service
[20:26] <smoser> so it really shuld not be doing anything until that is finished.
[20:27] <smoser> holy moley
[20:27] <smoser> the monotonic is not in order
[20:27] <smoser> journalctl -o short-monotonic
[20:27] <smoser> needs to sort
[20:30] <rharper> ew
[20:30] <rharper> that seems *wrong*
[20:30] <smoser> yeah. its probably because its just timestampping the different threads as the come in
[20:32] <rharper> so,  something umounts /mnt right after cloud-init.service starts ( that's expected, right?)
[20:32] <rharper> [   14.713559] repro3 cloud-init[1037]: Cloud-init v. 0.7.8 running 'init' at Thu,
[20:32] <rharper> [   14.406073] repro3 systemd[1]: Unmounted /mnt.
[20:33] <rharper> actually before
[20:33] <rharper> not sure why
[20:33] <smoser> well, cloud-init *does* do that. or could
[20:33] <rharper> -local ?
[20:33] <smoser> if it was ntfs, then cloud-init mounts, reads, unmounts
[20:33] <rharper> well, this is the mnt.service saying
[20:33] <rharper> so, that happens after fstab generator runs
[20:33] <rharper> otherwise we wouldn't have a mnt.mount unit
[20:33] <smoser> probably not -local (looking for the datasource disk) but it coudl be
[20:34] <rharper> bbiab, picking up the kiddos, then back to help debug
[20:34] <smoser> yeah, everything happens after the fstab generator runs
[20:58] <rharper> smoser: back
[21:00] <smoser> i poked slangasek, he might be looking too
[21:02] <smoser> its kind of interesting/annoying that 'mount -a' failed
[21:02] <smoser> as i've never seen that before
[21:02] <smoser> "everything is already mounted" normally exits 0
[21:03] <rharper> that seems new
[21:03] <rharper> if we run mount -a now, do we see ?
[21:03] <rharper> no
[21:03] <rharper> it returns 0
[21:03] <smoser> right.
[21:03] <rharper> so, something is very strange
[21:03] <rharper> what's the RC?
[21:03] <smoser> so it could just be a really unlucky race
[21:03] <rharper> well, the return code should give us a hint
[21:03] <smoser> 32
[21:04] <rharper> maybe it's ntfs return code
[21:04] <rharper> 32
[21:04] <rharper> mount failure
[21:04] <rharper> that's so helpful
[21:04] <rharper> =(
[21:05] <rharper> https://linux.die.net/man/8/ntfs-3g.probe doesn't list 32
[21:05] <rharper> so unlikely ntfs error
[21:13] <rharper> ov 17 20:11:02.868532 repro3 cloud-init[1037]: 2016-11-17 20:11:01,686 - util.py[WARNING]: Activating mounts via 'mount -a' failed
[21:13] <rharper> Nov 17 20:11:02.868575 repro3 kernel: EXT4-fs (sdb1): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Opts: (null)
[21:14] <rharper> smoser: that does look like a race , mount -a got the OK to mount it, but something mounted it before it could ?
[21:14] <rharper> that's what 50 ms?
[21:15] <smoser> thats way shorter than that
[21:16] <rharper> 6 places isn't nano, ?
[21:16]  * rharper sucks at subsecond placement
[21:16] <smoser> oh. but you're looking at the timestamp of the message that it failed.
[21:16] <rharper> sure, but I still think it's related
[21:16] <smoser> 20:11:01,652
[21:17] <smoser> is 'Running'
[21:17] <rharper> [   14.425648] repro3 systemd[1]: Stopped File System Check on /dev/disk/cloud/azure_resource-part1.
[21:17] <rharper> [   14.484319] repro3 systemd[1]: Starting File System Check on /dev/disk/cloud/azure_resource-part1...
[21:17] <rharper> [   14.560400] repro3 systemd-fsck[1140]: /dev/sdb1: clean, 11/25688 files, 8896/102400 blocks
[21:17] <rharper> [   15.757407] repro3 cloud-init[1037]: 2016-11-17 20:11:01,686 - util.py[WARNING]: Activating mounts via 'mount -a' failed
[21:17] <smoser> yeah, that just seems completely bogus
[21:18] <rharper> [   15.440692] repro3 kernel: EXT4-fs (sdb1): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Opts: (null)
[21:18] <rharper> something was "using" sdb1 (systemd-wise)
[21:18] <rharper> when cloud-init attempted to mount it
[21:18] <rharper> if fsck was still running, it would be seen as busy
[21:18] <rharper> ie, an open on the device
[21:18] <rharper> systemd-fsck
[21:18] <smoser> :-(
[21:18] <smoser> yeah
[21:19] <rharper> These services are started at boot if passno in /etc/fstab for the file system is set to a value greater than zero.
[21:19] <rharper> whichi s set to 2
[21:19] <rharper> which triggers the service
[21:21] <rharper> we could try not setting the passno in the fstab entry and see if things just work
[21:22] <rharper> if so then we may need to mask systemd-fsck service prior to the mount (or as you see) it gets mounted automatically
[21:22] <rharper> ie, if we're system_is_systemd
[21:22] <rharper> we could skip the mount -a
[21:24] <smoser> right, on ubuntu we do not in theory need the mount -a now.
[21:24] <smoser> mask systemd-fsck service ?
[21:28] <smoser> :-(
[21:28] <smoser> another instance, i see:
[21:28] <smoser> 2016-11-17 21:20:04,125 - DataSourceAzure.py[DEBUG]: Azure ephemeral disk: All files appeared after ['/dev/disk/cloud/azure_resource'] seconds: 0
[21:28] <smoser> 2016-11-17 21:20:04,125 - DataSourceAzure.py[DEBUG]: reformattable=False: device /dev/disk/cloud/azure_resource is not a file
[21:29] <smoser> which is very odd.
[21:31] <rharper> it's alink
[21:31] <rharper> right ?
[21:31] <smoser> right. but the check is os.exists
[21:31] <rharper> and it's /dev/disk/azure/resource
[21:31] <rharper> not azure_resource
[21:31] <smoser> err.. isfile
[21:31] <smoser> which isvalid
[21:32] <smoser> no its both
[21:32] <rharper> your instance says no
[21:32] <smoser> and cloud-init is the /dev/disk/cloud/azure_resource one. the other is from walinuxagent
[21:32] <rharper> ah
[21:33] <rharper> two paths
[21:33] <rharper> is suspect that's udev racing with symlink creation
[21:34] <smoser> but it shoudlnt ever stop existing
[21:34] <smoser> after it exists
[21:35] <smoser> i have to go... to teacher conferences
[21:35] <rharper> k
[21:35] <smoser> i'm using http://paste.ubuntu.com/23492436/
[21:35] <smoser> to make it think its a resize
[21:35] <smoser> (just partitions it as 1 parittion and mkfs ntsf)
[21:35] <rharper> and then reboot ?
[21:35] <smoser> and then reboot
[21:35] <smoser> yeah
[21:35] <rharper> ok
[21:36] <smoser> here, i'll give you another instance
[21:36] <smoser><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:37] <smoser> shoot
[21:37] <smoser> isfile is just wrong
[21:37] <smoser> fix that
[21:37] <smoser> os.path.isfile("/dev/disk/cloud/azure_resource")
[21:37] <smoser> False
[21:37] <rharper> heh
[21:37] <rharper> islink
[21:37] <rharper> will work
[21:37] <rharper> >>> os.path.islink('/dev/disk/cloud/azure_resource')
[21:37] <rharper> True
[21:38] <smoser> well i dont want to know if its a link
[21:38] <smoser> cause that says it can be danling
[21:38] <rharper> you need readlink -f
[21:38] <rharper> I'll get a fix
[21:38] <smoser> i just changed to exists
[21:38] <smoser> and pushed
[21:38] <smoser> so that should be fine really
[21:38] <rharper> well, yeah
[21:38] <smoser> going afk
[21:38] <rharper> k
[21:39] <rharper> >>> os.path.realpath('/dev/disk/cloud/azure_resource')
[21:39] <rharper> '/dev/sdb'
[21:39] <rharper> >>> os.path.exists(os.path.realpath('/dev/disk/cloud/azure_resource'))
[21:39] <rharper> True
[21:51]  * rharper gives it a go
[22:37] <rharper> smoser: getting further;  with the realpath and exists going, now we're looking to find sdb1 .. it's not immediately present when we're detecting if the devices can be reformatted ..
[23:01] <rharper> smoser: currently, sdb1 isn;t being detected as ntfs  via the blkid util.find_devs_with(); debugging that
[23:29] <rharper> ah , looks like it's working, but we tried to mount /dev/sdb, instead of /dev/sdb1 (real_partpath)
[23:35] <rharper> and, wrong name of the semaphor file, config_disk_setup, not config_disk_config
[23:35] <rharper> almost there


[19:03] <msw> smoser: around?
[19:05] <msw> I just started a new 64-bit instance of 10.04 (ami-55dc0b3c) and apt-get commands are failing: https://gist.github.com/1791804
[19:05] <msw> anyone seen this?
[19:07] <msw> ok, apt-get update fixed it
[19:07] <msw> nevermind
[19:11] <smoser> msw, here.
[19:11] <smoser> msw, right. that is expected.
[19:12] <msw> smoser: *nod* - sorry, should have looked closer. :-P
[19:12] <smoser> no problem.
[19:49] <nOStahl> hi guys
[19:50] <nOStahl> im gearing up to start a small local cloud
[19:50] <nOStahl> found some towers with vt enabled
[19:50] <nOStahl> got 2 for nodes and one for controller.
[19:50] <nOStahl> starting out each node will have 2 gigs ram and controller will have 2 gigs as well
[19:51] <nOStahl> been trying to find info on what gets stored where.
[19:51] <nOStahl> what size hard drives do I need for each node
[20:14] <smoser> hm.. so anyone have thoughts about boto upgrade?
[20:59] <erichammond> smoser: If an upgrade means that more AWS services are supported, then I'm all for it.
[20:59] <erichammond> though I have no idea what context this conversation is in.
[21:01] <smoser> erichammond, mostliy just upgraade
[21:02] <smoser> and yeah, there are more services in it.


[18:42] <cjohnston> aquarius: im getting many complimpents about your mobile view
[19:17] <aquarius> cjohnston, cool
[19:20] <aquarius> I note: it is *your* mobile view :)
[19:21] <aquarius> I just threw in a couple of meta tags for the viewport :)
[19:21] <cjohnston> lool
[19:28] <aquarius> srsly, you guys did all the hard work
[19:29]  * cjohnston points to mhall119
[19:41] <mhall119> I didn't touch a thing
[23:00] <cjohnston> mhall119: nigelb et al.. we have two new MPs for Summit from jamestunnicliffe!
[23:00] <cjohnston> https://code.launchpad.net/~dooferlad/summit/requirements_bzr_version_bump and https://code.launchpad.net/~dooferlad/summit/wide_view_auto_refresh_always
[23:06] <cjohnston> jamestunnicliffe: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/summit/+spec/linaro-q212-requirements


[12:07] <venda> me, myself and my shadow?
[12:07] <rob^> evening
[12:07] <Mez> <-- Martin Meredith
[12:07] <Mez> so what meeting is this?
[12:07] <rob^> <-- robert stoffers
[12:07] <Mez> oh, Doc team :D
[12:07] <mdke> this is the documentation meeting
[12:07] <mdke> ok all, agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
[12:08] <mdke> by Member Introductions I presume he means new members?
[12:08] <mdke> introduce yourself rob^!!
[12:09] <rob^> Ok, I'm an Australian, 23 and made the switch to Ubuntu about 2 months ago
[12:09] <mdke> welcome :)
[12:09] <mdke> a related matter is how on earth are we going to get rob^ and mgalvin commit access?
[12:09] <rob^> I'm an ex-Debian user, but like Ubuntu for its regular release schedule and up-to-date packages
[12:10] <rob^> and the fact it has apt-get :)
[12:10] <judax> welcome, rob!
[12:10] <mdke> rob^, what do you envisage working on in the docteam? (we know the answer, but just in case you have more plans...)
[12:11] <rob^> The faq guide takes my fancy at the moment, but time will tell I guess
[12:11] <mdke> cool
[12:11] <rob^> I'm cycling onto shiftwork soon, so I'll actually be getting *paid* to write :)
[12:11] <mdke> awesome!
[12:12] <judax> getting paid, what is that?
[12:12] <mdke> anyone have any ideas re: commit access?
[12:12] <mdke> i have spoken to henrik
[12:12] <mdke> we have bugged elmo
[12:12] <rob^> nothing better to do, I have already worn out one xbox controler
[12:12] <mdke> what more can we do?
[12:13] <mdke> i guess we just have to wait for debconf to end :-(
[12:13] <venda> guess so
[12:13] <mdke> not good, considering the 48 hour undertaking we were given previously
[12:13] <mdke> sorry rob^ :(
[12:13] <mdke> we're trying our best!
[12:13] <rob^> yeah I know
[12:14] <judax> it has been more than 48hrs that is for sure
[12:14] <rob^> oh did I mention I did a little work for the KDE docteam? I even won a prize which never turned up
[12:14] <mdke> o.o
[12:14] <Riddell> rob^: what was the prize?
[12:14] <mdke> cool
[12:14] <judax> venda!
[12:14] <mdke> lol @ Riddell's highlights
[12:14] <rob^> umm I think it was a t-shirt
[12:15] <Riddell> mdke: hay, I was watching this anyway :)
[12:15] <Riddell> rob^: want me to hassle someone?
[12:15] <mdke> don't disillusion me!
[12:15] <ogra> mdke, you wont belive how many ppl watch ;)
[12:15] <mdke> argh
[12:15] <rob^> Riddell, go for it, it was a long time ago
[12:15] <mdke> ogra, :)
[12:15] <rob^> though
[12:15] <jbailey> mdke: It's true. =)
[12:16] <mdke> lol
[12:16] <mdke> that's really cool
[12:16] <mdke> we want to promote awareness of our activities in the community
[12:16] <mdke> next agenda item?
[12:16] <mdke> any more for the first one?
[12:16] <rob^> I'm good
[12:16] <mdke> mgalvin isn't here so he can introduce himself another time
[12:17] <judax> nope, AIs next
[12:17] <mdke> AGENDA ITEM:  Follow-up on ARs (Action Required) from previous meeting (see DocumentationTeamMeetingSummary6)
[12:17] <mdke> hmm
[12:18] <mdke> which documents have/have not got specs?
[12:18] <mdke> the ubuntu userguide doesn't have one to my knowledge
[12:18] <judax> I did kquickguide spec
[12:18] <mdke> cool
[12:19] <rob^> does the faq? I dont remember seeing one
[12:19] <venda> no time:-(
[12:19] <judax> hehe
[12:19] <venda> just plodding on kubuntu-docs
[12:19] <mdke> its only a paragraph that's required really
[12:19] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide
[12:20] <mdke> I will do one for the Ubuntu userguide
[12:20] <venda> K
[12:20] <judax> following jeffsch example on style guide makes it go quick, really
[12:20] <mdke> (although in parenthesis I should say that the two guys who are taking charge of the userguide have not done anything yet)
[12:21] <mdke> we can come onto that later
[12:21] <mdke> what else is action required?
[12:21] <mdke> re: shipping in HTML
[12:21] <judax> think that was decided
[12:21] <mdke> i spoke to mdz about that at the edubuntu summit
[12:22] <mdke> he said that there was probably no need to go through the TB for that
[12:22] <mdke> so that box can be ticked
[12:22] <mdke> judax, yeah
[12:22] <rob^> mdke, I know the qandaset the faq uses doesnt display at all using yelp
[12:22] <rob^> html may be the only option for it
[12:23] <mdke> rob^, yeah the decision to ship html was taken, it was just a question of informing -devel
[12:23] <venda> rob^: correct
[12:23] <rob^> ah good
[12:23] <jsgotangco> sorry i arrived so late
[12:23] <mdke> ok we can move on
[12:23] <mdke> morning jsgotangco
[12:23] <mdke> what else is Action Required?
[12:23] <mdke> docteam.ubuntu.com?
[12:23] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:23] <mdke> apparently the servers are being sorted this week
[12:23] <mdke> henrik said we should have it by next week
[12:24] <mdke> i wouldn't count on it, but that is good news anyhow
[12:24] <venda> next year more like
[12:24] <mdke> oy
[12:24] <venda> just tell it as it is :-)
[12:24] <mdke> optimism = good
[12:25] <mdke> anyhow, as everyone knows, we have found some decent temporary solutions, thanks for the kubuntu team and tseng
[12:25] <venda> better order help.ubuntu.com early
[12:25] <mdke> agreed
[12:25] <jsgotangco> ask elmo?
[12:25] <venda> ha
[12:25] <mdke> ok  is "jdub's suggestion on existing documentation already in the distro" an ActionRequired?
[12:26] <jsgotangco> well i've started on it actually
[12:26] <mdke> cool
[12:26] <jsgotangco> but im stumped on some things like sk
[12:26] <jsgotangco> i won't be able to do it on my own
[12:26] <mdke> i think we need guidance from jdub on it
[12:26] <jsgotangco> its way bit too complicated on my current skill set
[12:27] <Burgundavia> good timing
[12:27] <mdke> wb
[12:27] <jsgotangco> well not just jdub imo, anyone who is involved in creating the catalog as well
[12:27] <mdke> sorry should have highlighted you when you first came in
[12:27] <venda> jsgotangco: what is sk?
[12:27] <jsgotangco> scrollkeeper
[12:27] <Burgundavia> just joined, breezy and X currently are having issues
[12:28] <venda> ah
[12:28] <mdke> Burgundavia, ;)
[12:28] <mdke> ok so what do you propose we do jsgotangco ?
[12:28] <venda> hmm, what existing docs are we speaking about
[12:28] <jsgotangco> that and im in the middle of an Oracle contract, so it kinda got stuck for a while
[12:28] <judax> gnome docs
[12:28] <venda> kde docs
[12:28] <venda> manpages
[12:28] <venda> debian docs
[12:29] <jsgotangco> etc. etc.
[12:29] <venda> personally, not want I want to be doing
[12:29] <venda> or I would be upstream
[12:29] <venda> dont mind using upstream
[12:29] <jsgotangco> indeed IMO its an upstream issue really
[12:29] <venda> and if can push up
[12:29] <mdke> its just a question of making upstream docs appear in ubuntu
[12:30] <venda> but to tackle upstream docs is not want I want to be doing
[12:30] <mdke> not necessarily changing them or improving them
[12:30] <mdke> just harnassing them
[12:30] <venda> mdke: they do already
[12:30] <mdke> venda, all?
[12:30] <venda> well in kubuntu they do
[12:30] <venda> nice kde docs
[12:30] <mdke> that's cool
[12:30] <jsgotangco> there's still stuff not included from /usr/share/docs that doesn't appear in sk at all
[12:30] <judax> aye, but there was a component of using upstream content in our docs
[12:30] <mdke> jsgotangco, yep
[12:30] <jsgotangco> and there's a mix of xml and html
[12:31] <jsgotangco> so its not consistent either
[12:31] <mdke> i suggest we stress jdub for an action plan on this
[12:31] <mdke> it was his idea after all ;)
[12:31] <jsgotangco> i guess i would have to shorten my goal on just making a catalog on it for now
[12:31] <venda> jsgotangco: sk is a borked system
[12:31] <jsgotangco> venda: very
[12:32] <venda> jsgotangco: I don't thing one really needs such a dependancy in the docs
[12:32] <jsgotangco> adds another layer agreed, but that's what we have for now
[12:33] <mdke> ok how are we gonna leave this?
[12:33] <jsgotangco> its still open
[12:33] <jsgotangco> it won't really go further without a developer's help
[12:33] <mdke> well the only remaining idea I have is what I've already said: stress jdub for an action plan
[12:33] <venda> mdke: why are we forking upstream docs
[12:33] <mdke> venda, we are not
[12:33] <judax> venda: not forking
[12:34] <venda> if we dont then we may aswell all move upstream
[12:34] <jsgotangco> they're not 'forked'
[12:34] <mdke> venda, the suggestion is simply that we make things in /usr/share/doc appear in yelp. Not changing or forking them, or even moving them
[12:34] <judax> start looking upstream to see if we can integrate better (by shipping docbook, translating source documentation formats, etc)
[12:34] <venda> Hmm we do that already
[12:34] <jsgotangco> judax: right, incidentally not all docs in that folder are in source
[12:35] <mdke> well i have no more ideas on this subject
[12:35] <judax> jsgotangco: ok
[12:35] <jsgotangco> basically the bulk of work is diving in and looking what is there
[12:35] <venda> chaps its not our task to make everyone elses docs appear in sk
[12:35] <venda> the mainters should do that
[12:35] <mdke> venda, the proposal was whether we are going to make it our task, discussed at the previous meeting
[12:36] <jsgotangco> right its a GNOME thing at the moment
[12:36] <venda> the problem is upstream
[12:36] <venda> file a bug
[12:36] <venda> if you want
[12:36] <jsgotangco> its someting that the whole team should not get involved with imo
[12:36] <venda> =1
[12:36] <venda> +1
[12:36] <jsgotangco> but people are freeto do it anyway
[12:36] <jsgotangco> thats why im doing it
[12:36] <venda> can stop them
[12:37] <mdke> ok let's move on then
[12:37] <rob^> there is a fair few man pages appering in yelp already
[12:37] <mdke> yeah some do
[12:37] <jsgotangco> even fedora and rhel don't even fix this
[12:37] <jsgotangco> thats why their pages are in html
[12:37] <mdke> any more items that are Action Required from previous meeting, or can we move onto the next agenda item?
[12:37] <jsgotangco> anyway, its a totally different story so let's move on
[12:37] <venda> jah man pages and info are best at the prompt
[12:38] <mdke> venda, i tend to agree. let's move on
[12:38] <mdke> ok AGENDA ITEM: "Author updates on DocteamProjects"
[12:38] <rob^> me me!
[12:38] <mdke> shall we go through em one by one?
[12:38] <jsgotangco> well ok basically let's just have people talk about the status of their work
[12:39] <mdke> rob^, sup
[12:39] <venda> GO ROB!!!
[12:39] <rob^> Well, I need to be added to that page :)
[12:39] <mdke> rob^, you need to add yourself as lead on the projects btw
[12:39] <mdke> heh
[12:39] <mdke> syke
[12:40] <venda> rob^: are you only doing gnome
[12:40] <rob^> I think the Ubuntu version is comming along and may even be ready for Breezy, but there is very little content for Kubuntu
[12:40] <venda> or do you give some kde love
[12:40] <rob^> venda, yes at this stage
[12:40] <mdke> is there a kde version of the original ubuntuguide that could be harnassed?
[12:40] <rob^> yes
[12:40] <rob^> KUDOS
[12:41] <mdke> that will help right?
[12:41] <judax> rob^: kubuntu faq?
[12:41] <rob^> http://kudos.berlios.de/
[12:41] <rob^> ubuntuguide, but for kubuntu
[12:41] <venda> we have permission to port it
[12:41] <judax> yes, read that last night
[12:41] <mdke> rob^, any plans for that?
[12:41] <mdke> venda, rock
[12:41] <venda> just needs a person to do it
[12:41] <venda> I started
[12:41] <rob^> well, I was thinking we could add a lot of stuff from there for the kde profile in the faq
[12:42] <venda> but too much going on
[12:42] <jsgotangco> rob^: its can be ported we talked to the original author already and gave permission
[12:42] <rob^> good
[12:42] <mdke> rob^, well if you and mgalvin feel you can take it on, that would be supercool
[12:42] <rob^> I also noticed the licence was compatible too
[12:42] <venda> rob^: that was the idea
[12:42] <rob^> I will speak to mgalvin, but I cant see why not
[12:42] <venda> rob^: the author released it to us under terms of the docteam licenses
[12:42] <mdke> rock
[12:42] <mdke> nice one
[12:42] <rob^> it might not be ready for breezy though
[12:43] <mdke> rob^, just do what you can :)
[12:43] <venda> if kfaq is good can package
[12:43] <rob^> yeah :)
[12:43] <mdke> ok next project
[12:43] <mdke> styleguide
[12:43] <mdke> jeffsch ain't here
[12:43] <venda> jury duty
[12:43] <mdke> ubuntu quickguide? jsgotangco
[12:43] <jsgotangco> well i started on international.xml already
[12:43] <mdke> venda, really? ;)
[12:43] <venda> poor bugger
[12:44] <mdke> i hope he doesn't get like a 6 month case
[12:44] <jsgotangco> Colony 2 won't run well on my side so i haven'
[12:44] <jsgotangco> t even started it
[12:44] <venda> nah back friday
[12:44] <mdke> jsgotangco, do you envisage that a lot of work will be needed to update it?
[12:44] <jsgotangco> mdke: not much really
[12:44] <mdke> yay
[12:45] <jsgotangco> mdke: unless the artwork gets changed
[12:45] <mdke> let's face it... it will
[12:45] <jsgotangco> its basically review/add/delete work
[12:45] <mdke> okies
[12:45] <venda> Riddell: why do we not have Colonies for Kubuntu
[12:45] <mdke> cool
[12:45] <mdke> About Ubuntu, squinn
[12:46] <venda> have not seen him lately
[12:46] <mdke> no
[12:46] <mdke> i am slightly concerned about that doc being looked after by him
[12:46] <mdke> but no doubt we will improvise later on
[12:46] <Riddell> venda: because Kamion hasn't made any
[12:46] <Riddell> venda: and I guess now isn't a good time to start, X and all that
[12:47] <venda> Riddell: is the nightly build working now
[12:47] <venda> Riddell: we need that x stuff fixed aspa
[12:47] <Riddell> venda: there are nightly builds (didn't work very well last I tried)
[12:47] <venda> asap
[12:47] <venda> yes I know
[12:47] <mdke> *coughs*
[12:47] <venda> Riddell: venda = froud
[12:47] <Riddell> aah :)
[12:48] <venda> Riddell: it really stands inmy way
[12:48] <venda> please resolve that issue
[12:48] <mdke> daniels is working as fast as he can
[12:48] <mdke> on topic?
[12:48] <mdke> ubuntu userguide?
[12:48] <Riddell> yes, it's daniels
[12:48] <jsgotangco> arent you the one doing it
[12:48] <venda> kubuntu quick guide?
[12:48] <judax> awaiting review, but some things will need to change/added based on breezy decisions, venda has some insight on this
[12:48] <venda> oh later
[12:48] <mdke> as I said earlier, the two guys who took charge of the ubuntu userguide haven't yet edited it at all
[12:49] <mdke> i am slightly concerned about that
[12:49] <jsgotangco> well once i get breezy running smoothly i will look into it
[12:49] <mdke> venda, then you should have spoke up when we decided that two meetings ago :/
[12:49] <venda> dude, I am already in the dwang for saying what I think
[12:49] <judax> owners is not a bad thing
[12:50] <venda> you think me wants more
[12:50] <judax> but you need people to commit
[12:50] <mdke> calm voicing of opinion is good
[12:50] <mdke> anyhow
[12:50] <mdke> i have been working on the ubuntu userguide quite a bit recently, and it needs a lot of work still
[12:50] <mdke> i was thinking maybe I would undertake to give it some love
[12:51] <venda> mdke: I see you and xpointer are making friends
[12:51] <mdke> venda, shall we say we are still sniffing each other's bottoms
[12:51] <rob^> thanx
[12:52] <venda> mdke: poh
[12:52] <venda> pooh
[12:52] <mdke> so what do people think?
[12:52] <mdke> would it be reasonable for me to put myself down for ubuntu userguide?
[12:52] <judax> why wouldn't it be reasonable?
[12:52] <venda> mdke: its all you
[12:53] <jsgotangco> sure if you can still put time for it
[12:53] <mdke> okay
[12:53] <mdke> kubuntu docs?
[12:53] <mdke> they are rocking afaics
[12:54] <venda> kubuntu docs
[12:54] <venda> yes
[12:54] <judax> kquickguide is reviewable, but some stuff will need to be changed/added depending on breezy decisions
[12:54] <mdke> sounds good
[12:54] <venda> we have all the infrustructure set and working
[12:54] <jsgotangco> yeah kquickguide is a sure deliver
[12:54] <judax> froud started some of those things
[12:54] <venda> we just need people to write
[12:55] <venda> and we need kubuntu-devel to get  the install working
[12:55] <judax> About Kubuntu is no issue
[12:55] <venda> its a major blocker for us
[12:55] <judax> Kynaptic User would have been ready, but it may be worthless now
[12:56] <mdke> judax, how come?
[12:56] <mdke> oh i c
[12:56] <mdke> sorry kynaptic yeah
[12:56] <judax> mdke: Kynaptic may go away
[12:56] <venda> we have many not decided issues in devel
[12:56] <venda> these and the x issues are major problems for us
[12:57] <mdke> what are we going to do with Release Notes (both K and G)?
[12:57] <venda> to scared to write to much for fear it will not be like that
[12:57] <venda> k release notes started
[12:57] <mdke> cool
[12:57] <rob^> venda, I can relate
[12:57] <mdke> i guess its hard to do much on release notes until a later stage?
[12:58] <jsgotangco> right
[12:58] <venda> Riddell: pls those issues, pls solve them fast
[12:58] <mdke> venda, you've made your point
[12:58] <venda> obviously not
[12:58] <mdke> venda, i'm sure they do their best
[12:58] <venda> we need answers
[12:58] <venda> not wil do best
[12:58] <venda> dates
[12:58] <mdke> venda, docs are not their only consideration
[12:58] <venda> milestones
[12:58] <mdke> ok we have dates
[12:58] <venda> docs are my only consideration
[12:58] <jsgotangco> OT
[12:59] <venda> my task to bat for them
[12:59] <venda> mdke: you have dates
[12:59] <mdke> we have feature freeze on aug 11
[12:59] <venda> but we have no working system
[12:59] <judax> k docs will rock 5.10, worries not
[12:59] <venda> longer no working system, closer date comes, less can do
[12:59] <mdke> judax, agreed
[01:00] <jsgotangco> whip 'em on #ubuntu-devel why dont you
[01:00] <mdke> venda, ok well you can continue that discussion outside this forum
[01:00] <jsgotangco> instead of doing it our meeting
[01:00] <mdke> cool
[01:00] <mdke> jsgotangco, ++
[01:00] <mdke> next agenda item?
[01:00] <venda> jsgotangco: its a doc problem no?
[01:01] <jsgotangco> there's no point on feeling helpless at the moment and we're not the only one affected
[01:01] <judax> Wiki Team update?
[01:01] <venda> jsgotangco: how do you write docs with no gui
[01:01] <mdke> venda, enough now man
[01:02] <jsgotangco> venda: whine to daniels like what everybody else does
[01:02] <mdke> its a good point, this is not the place
[01:03] <mdke> wiki team update: thanks to robitaille we have fixed the broken icons on the wiki. current main initiative is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation which we are trying to give a structure to allow wiki docs to become more accessible
[01:03] <venda> night all wiki is not for me
[01:03] <mdke> IMHO it is already starting to rock
[01:03] <mdke> venda, there are more items after this one
[01:04] <judax> venda: night
[01:04] <venda> mdke: wiki, back ports and gnome not for me
[01:05] <mdke> that's about all i can think of on wikiteam
[01:05] <mdke> venda, ok night then
[01:05] <venda> chow
[01:05] <jsgotangco> let him be obviously he's only interested in specific things that only interest him instead of the whole team
[01:05] <mdke> ok let's carry on
[01:05] <mdke> gnome user guide... this is an awesome problem
[01:05] <rob^> hey
[01:05] <jsgotangco> hmm
[01:05] <rob^> just in time mgalvin
[01:05] <mdke> hey mgalvin
[01:06] <jsgotangco> you mean the 2.6 doc in yelp?
[01:06] <mgalvin> :) did i miss all of it
[01:06] <rob^> yea
[01:06] <mdke> i can introduce the gnome user guide problem quickly
[01:06] <rob^> almost
[01:06] <jsgotangco> mdke: break a leg
[01:07] <jsgotangco> as you were saying?
[01:07] <mdke> basically, there is a gnome user guide. It is nice, but WELL out of date. We have three ideas that have been suggested: 1. make a vendor drop and use bits of it in our ubuntu userguide by xincluding (froud's idea). 2. copy and paste interesting bits (preferred by me). 3. take it and update it and rewrite it as the Ubuntu user guide (suggested by jeffsch)
[01:08] <jsgotangco> why complicate something with #1 when its easier for you to do #2 and #3
[01:08] <mdke> the second solution is the most selfish, because it precludes sending improvements upstream
[01:09] <mdke> but it is the easiest in terms of effort
[01:09] <judax> 1 is cool and all, but it seems 1 works best if the content you want to bring in is current
[01:09] <jsgotangco> right
[01:09] <mdke> btw you can see it here: http://www.gnome.org/learn/
[01:09] <judax> I like 3, followed by 1 when needed if upstream updates
[01:09] <mdke> judax, with 1 we could still update the vendor drop and send it back to gnome cvs
[01:10] <judax> mdke: but doesn't that fly in the face of the leave upstream alone discussion we just had?
[01:10] <jsgotangco> question: is #1 doable to people here at the moment
[01:10] <mdke> judax, i don't think so. It would just be a helpful thing to do
[01:11] <mdke> my personal view is that we don't have the time for 1 or 3
[01:11] <mdke> but jeffsch may commit some time, in which case they might become doable
[01:11] <jsgotangco> you can make it a long term goal though
[01:11] <mdke> also mpt was looking at it...
[01:11] <judax> 3 could be a good base
[01:11] <judax> to start from
[01:11] <mdke> jsgotangco, the problem is if we go for 3 and don't have it ready for breezy, there will be no userguide for breezy
[01:12] <judax> isn't 3 actually a merge of current Ugug and gug?
[01:12] <jsgotangco> then go to the easiest route to be able to ship for breezy and make a long term goal for post breezy breezy+1
[01:12] <mdke> judax, yes
[01:12] <mdke> jsgotangco, that is what I would also say
[01:13] <mdke> 3 isn't a lot different from 1 really...
[01:13] <mdke> except you end up helping upstream more with 1
[01:13] <mdke> but helping upstream can also be done by joining the gnome documentation team
[01:13] <mdke> ;)
[01:13] <jsgotangco> after breezy everyone will have enough time to harness it considering we have a longer schedule ahead
[01:14] <judax> there is about 1 msg a week on that list
[01:14] <mdke> judax, quite
[01:14] <mdke> ok i would be tempted to plump for solution 2, better solution to be found for breezy +1
[01:15] <mdke> unless we get a mass of activity on it from new people
[01:15] <judax> mdke: I agree with mdke and jsgotangco, need to concentrate on what can be shipped and plan to help upstream when our house is in order
[01:16] <mdke> any other views?
[01:16] <mgalvin> i think i like 3, and hope to have more time to help attain that goal
[01:16] <mdke> with 3, is there a chance to poke it back upstream without Ubuntu specific changes?
[01:17] <mdke> i.e. what are the advantages of 3 over 1?
[01:17] <judax> they are all a means to the same end I think
[01:17] <mgalvin> well, i would still like to push things upstream if we can
[01:17] <mdke> yeah
[01:17] <mdke> i actually tend to prefer 1
[01:17] <mgalvin> while not making it more complicated than it needs to be
[01:17] <mgalvin> but i am not agaist 1
[01:18] <judax> Ugug has to get done and we should push upstream when we are able and have the time and plan to do so
[01:18] <mdke> basically, xinclude the whole (updated) guide, then write customisations for Ubuntu
[01:18] <mdke> yeah I am kinda already just thinking about this on a breezy+1 level
[01:18] <mdke> updating the gnome guide is already a huge job
[01:19] <mdke> ok let's move on
[01:19] <jsgotangco> well its upstream work again
[01:19] <mdke> [backports for breezy]
[01:19] <rob^> ok
[01:19] <rob^> What I wanted to say was, as I mentioned on the mailing list, I've been told that backports are to become official, but unsupported. I doubt some packages such as w32codecs/libdvdcss2 will make it either.
[01:19] <rob^> what is the best way of telling people they need to install packages such as libdvdcss2 and w32codecs? People want to view movies and dvds using Ubuntu, not mentioning this at all will cause things like ubuntuguide.org to spring up all over again. But then theres the problem of leaving us open to legal problems by telling people how to do this, not to mention Canonical probably wont want us to do this either. How do we proceed?
[01:19] <Burgundavia> the patent only stuff may make it
[01:19] <Burgundavia> w32codecs will not
[01:20] <mdke> my view on this issue is that we wait and see
[01:20] <mdke> it will almost certainly be discussed at the CC meeting next week
[01:21] <Burgundavia> what is clear is libdvdcss2 and w32codecs are 2 seperate kettles of fish
[01:21] <judax> jsgotangco: gimmie
[01:21] <mdke> legally speaking yeah
[01:21] <Burgundavia> the patent-infringing only stuff we can probably talk about
[01:21] <Burgundavia> w32codecs is theft
[01:21] <rob^> well I will hold of writing anything until a firm decision is made
[01:21] <jsgotangco> mdke: you're the barrister, what is your opinion
[01:21] <judax> I never advocated telling people how to break laws, just that we shouldn't put our fingers in our ears either
[01:22] <mdke> jsgotangco, my hunch is that we shouldn't refer people to packages that might be legally dodgy. However we can refer em to RestrictedFormats and we DEFINITELY should tell them about the various repositories that exist
[01:22] <mdke> including official backports
[01:22] <mdke> but IMHO it is too early to tell
[01:22] <rob^> mdke, yeah, thats my problem
[01:23] <mdke> i am fairly sure that Canonical will not agree to put w32codecs and other dodgy stuff in any official hoary-extras repo on the Canonical servers
[01:23] <jsgotangco> why not just make a generic doc and have it point to a wiki entry that constantly changes to reflect what is the consesus on those formats
[01:23] <judax> it is also responsible to say: hey, we know this doesn't work and there is a reason it doesn't work, it is not that we just forgot about it
[01:23] <mdke> so we have to wait and see IMO
[01:23] <jsgotangco> what way you can still ship that doucment
[01:23] <jsgotangco> instead of aiming to include it in shipped book
[01:23] <mdke> in terms of stuff which is supported by multiverse, I am in favour of telling people about the stuff (gstreamer plugins etc) but ensuring that they know their legal responsibility
[01:24] <mdke> the passage about multiverse in the kde userguide is quite good on that iMO
[01:24] <rob^> mdke, I will take a look
[01:24] <jsgotangco> i can ask sibs on it anytime we exchange emails lately on other issues
[01:24] <mdke> oooh
[01:24] <mdke> other issues eh
[01:25] <jsgotangco> non-docteam issues heh
[01:25] <mdke> o.o
[01:25] <rob^> I point them to restrictedformats (as I have already done) at this stage then
[01:26] <jsgotangco> rob^: safest path at the moment imo
[01:26] <mdke> rob^, in the userguide I've told people how to install mp3 support from multiverse, but avoided dvds and w32codecs so far
[01:26] <rob^> ok
[01:27] <mdke> in fact I've avoided backports entirely, but will write in support when it is clear what is going on with them
[01:27] <jsgotangco> im going to compare again
[01:27] <jsgotangco> Fedora doesn't even delve on this
[01:27] <rob^> yes
[01:27] <rob^> they dont
[01:28] <mdke> well then, their users don't get essential info
[01:28] <mdke> but anyhow, IMO we need to wait and see on this question
[01:28] <rob^> its a pain in the butt quite frankly, but I agree we will need to wait and see
[01:29] <jsgotangco> better if i ask silbs now
[01:29] <jsgotangco> so that we'll get a reply later
[01:29] <mdke> jsgotangco, the thing is, the status of backports has not yet been confirmed, it will be discussed at CC this week and we can discuss the legal issues
[01:29] <jsgotangco> oh ok
[01:29] <mdke> in the end, I believe Canonical will go and get an answer from their lawyers...
[01:30] <jsgotangco> TurboLinux is the only distro I know that ships these stuff legally
[01:30] <rob^> jsgotangco, how?
[01:30] <jsgotangco> other than that, all are dodgy implementations
[01:30] <rob^> w32codecs?
[01:30] <judax> Linspire does
[01:30] <jsgotangco> rob^: they licensed from MS and got PowerDVD
[01:30] <mdke> they probably pay for them or something
[01:30] <judax> mdke: yes they do
[01:31] <rob^> jsgotangco, I wonder if ubuntu has that sought of money?
[01:31] <rob^> probably not..
[01:31] <jsgotangco> mdke: disgust on turbolinux?
[01:31] <mdke> rob^, they have it, but it would be against policy to do that stuff...
[01:31] <mdke> general disgust
[01:32] <Mez> what? at me entering the channel?
[01:32] <judax> it is disgusting, all of it is BS
[01:32] <jsgotangco> lol
[01:32] <rob^> mdke, yeah, your right but it would help a lot of people :)
[01:32] <mdke> hehe
[01:32] <mdke> ok topic closed?
[01:32] <rob^> yeah
[01:32] <jsgotangco> just to close then
[01:32] <mdke> any more business?
[01:32] <jsgotangco> TurboLinux sells their distro for $70 with a legal codec
[01:32] <judax> I am going on 2-week holiday :)
[01:33] <rob^> jsgotangco, ah
[01:33] <jsgotangco> well
[01:33] <jsgotangco> ok what did we accomplish so far
[01:34] <judax> started slow, but a good meeting nonetheless, imho
[01:34] <mdke> me too
[01:34] <jsgotangco> well yeah although 22:00UTC meetings are murder for me
[01:35] <judax> jsgotangco: 2200UTC in Canada is not bad :)
[01:35] <rob^> 8am here
[01:36] <jsgotangco> 6am on my place!!! w00t but not so bad i guess
[01:36] <judax> 630pm here and into 3 frosty
[01:36] <jsgotangco> ok so next meeting we go back to 14:00UTC
[01:36] <jsgotangco> on the 28th
[01:36] <judax> s/3/3rd
[01:36] <jsgotangco> we revolve between 14:00 and 22:00
[01:37] <jsgotangco> that cool with you all
[01:37] <mgalvin> what about 2300UTC
[01:37] <mgalvin> obviously 2200 is tuff for me
[01:38] <judax> mgalvin: wru located?
[01:38] <jsgotangco> what time would that be on your side ?
[01:38] <mdke> i can do 14 and 22
[01:38] <rob^> 1400z is 2am here
[01:38] <jsgotangco> yay
[01:38] <mgalvin> new york, us
[01:38] <judax> mgalvin: ah, commute time?
[01:38] <mgalvin> 6pm, work commut time
[01:38] <mgalvin> yup, u got it!
[01:38] <jsgotangco> well we can adjust accordingly, mdke is the only euro i know on this team atm
[01:38] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:38] <jsgotangco> ;-P
[01:39] <judax> I work from home so usually not an issue for me
[01:39] <mgalvin> lucky you
[01:39] <jsgotangco> mgalvin: we'll adjust the agenda for you just in case
[01:39] <judax> aye
[01:40] <jsgotangco> but generally, 14 and 22 is quite acceptable to most people here (except those in AU and NZ on 14UTC)
[01:40] <rob^> hehe yeah like me
[01:40] <rob^> 22 is ok though, 8am
[01:41] <jsgotangco> its only our 2nd regular meeting anyways so we'll adjust accordingly
[01:41] <jsgotangco> what's important is that we're beginning to have this regularly
[01:41] <rob^> I'm in kilo time
[01:41] <jsgotangco> alright so anything else?
[01:41] <mdke> jsgotangco, ++
[01:41] <jsgotangco> anyone wants to discuss aything else
[01:41] <mgalvin> i can sometimes make it home in time, so if its just me don't worry to much about it, i will just try to let you guys know when i can't
[01:42] <mgalvin> do we know svn commit access status?
[01:43] <rob^> no
[01:44] <Burgundavia> need to contact elmo, whom I haven't seen in irc for ages
[01:44] <mdke> yeah he's at debconf
[01:45] <mdke> we discussed at the beginning of the meeting
[01:45] <mdke> not a lot mroe we can do
[01:46] <rob^> how come one of us doesnt have that access on svn anyway..
[01:46] <Burgundavia> the plan if for us to switch to bazaar for breezy+1
[01:46] <mdke> rob^, the svn server is in the Ubuntu server farm, only elmo has access
[01:47] <rob^> yeah I know, why is he the only one though?
[01:47] <mdke> because he is careful
[01:47] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, where is pda testing going?
[01:47] <mdke> even henrik doesn't have access to the wiki
[01:47] <rob^> yeah :P
[01:52] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: i asked mdz about it yesterday but no reply yet
[01:54] <jsgotangco> as for svn access, if the team opts to keep svn when everything is already in Baz, we may have to administer our own svn
[01:54] <jsgotangco> anyways, ok till next meeting then, 14:00UTC July 28
[08:35] <robitaille> because Tuesday 16 July didn't exist...
[08:39] <Treenaks> robitaille: maybe not this year... :)
[08:43] <robitaille> the next Tuesday July 16 is in 2013.  Quite a long time between Tech Board meetings.
[08:47] <Treenaks> well, there's the 5-year support for 6.04 8)
[08:52] <robitaille> added date of next Doc Team meeting in 2 weeks.


[01:12] <Tm_T> IMO ubuntu = kubumtu = edubuntu = ...
[01:12] <Tm_T> whops, I keep mistyping
[01:12] <coreymon77> not really, there are differences
[01:13] <Tm_T> there is, but we are the same still
[01:13] <coreymon77> just curious, why only an ubuntu cloak
[01:13] <stdin> ubuntu is the project, kubuntu is the distro
[01:13] <Tm_T> stdin: exactly
[01:13] <PriceChild> coreymon77, because ubuntu is the registered project on freenode
[01:13] <coreymon77> oh
[01:13] <coreymon77> okay
[01:13] <PriceChild> coreymon77, and also, kubuntu members is a sub team of ubuntu members
[01:13] <Tm_T> Kubuntu is part of Ubuntu
[01:13] <stdin> we're all one big happy family :)
[01:13] <coreymon77> i know
[01:13] <Tm_T> stdin: indeed :)
[01:14] <Tm_T> http://www.tm-travolta.net/pics/k-ed-ubuntu/kedubuntu-more-white-2.png
[01:14] <Tm_T> <3
[01:15] <coreymon77> altough, it seems like its a bit of a big happy dictatorship family run by ubuntu
[01:15] <Tm_T> bah
[01:15] <PriceChild> s/dictatorship/meritocracy/
[01:15] <stdin> Tm_T: what? you don't like xubuntu? :p
[01:15] <Tm_T> stdin: it wasnt official part of us back then
[01:15] <coreymon77> Tm_T: impressive
[01:16] <coreymon77> stdin: besides, there is only room for 3 things
[01:16] <Tm_T> mouse in center
[01:16] <Tm_T> there, xubuntu added
[01:16] <coreymon77> where?
[01:17] <Tm_T> funny to notice that Ubuntu magazine has the same idea in their logo
[01:17] <Tm_T> 2 years after me =)
[01:17] <Tm_T> or something like that
[01:17] <coreymon77> Tm_T: you added xu to your pic
[01:17] <coreymon77> ?
[01:17] <Tm_T> coreymon77: no
[01:17] <coreymon77> nalioth: ooh! shiny! thanks
[01:18] <Tm_T> but it would be very simple to do
[01:18] <coreymon77> oky
[01:18] <coreymon77> dinner time
[01:18] <stdin> coreymon77: like the logo here http://fullcirclemagazine.org/
[01:18] <Tm_T> coreymon77: btw I have better cloak than you!
[01:18] <Tm_T> stdin: yup
[01:18] <Tm_T> stdin: I dont know if they saw some of my doings or just got the same idea
[01:19] <stdin> ahh, we all know they stole it :p
[01:20] <Tm_T> doesnt matter really, I'm just curious :)
[01:57] <jrib> interesting, I can't even op
[01:57] <coreymon77> so
[01:58] <coreymon77> does this cloak do anything, or just for fun
[01:58] <jrib> just for fun really
[01:58] <coreymon77> okay
[01:59] <nalioth> coreymon77: it gets you the keys to the executive washroom
[01:59] <coreymon77> so howcome all of these people are getting voiced by the server
[01:59] <PriceChild> coreymon77, they are operators
[01:59] <coreymon77> oh
[01:59] <coreymon77> nalioth: lol
[02:00] <PriceChild> coreymon77, the cloak gives access in a few channels, such as -classroom iirc
[02:00] <PriceChild> nothing special though
[02:00] <coreymon77> Tm_T: you are a developer, i am not, hence the different cloak
[02:02] <Tm_T> coreymon77: how I'm developer?
[02:03] <coreymon77> Tm_T: you said you have a better cloak, of course, you are a kde developer
[02:03] <Tm_T> coreymon77: well thats what my cloak says =)
[02:04] <PriceChild> chanserv catching up? :)
[02:05] <jrib> I forgot to identify after the zelazny server died :)
[02:05] <coreymon77> Tm_T: whats that supposed to mean
[02:05] <coreymon77> Tm_T: they dont jsut give that cloak out for nothing
[02:05] <PriceChild> hehe
[02:06] <nalioth> coreymon77: Tm_T paid for that cloak with gummi bears and hookers
[02:07] <coreymon77> ...
[02:07] <coreymon77> PriceChild: whats the hehe about
[02:09] <PriceChild> coreymon77, at jr.ub
[02:09] <PriceChild> *jr.ib
[02:09] <PriceChild> I'll -r in a minute or two...
[02:09] <coreymon77> PriceChild: im confused
[02:12] <jrib> PriceChild: you have a script to kick?
[02:12] <PriceChild> alias's
[02:13] <jrib> let me do it, it's scripted :)
[02:13] <PriceChild> hehe ok :)
[02:13] <Tm_T> coreymon77: well, being developer isnt something high and mighty :)
[02:13] <coreymon77> Tm_T: i know
[02:13] <Tm_T> my "development" is mostly being an arse in irc
[02:13] <coreymon77> PriceChild: whats this jr.ib thing?
[02:13] <coreymon77> lol
[02:14] <jrib> hey!
[02:14] <PriceChild> coreymon77, i didn't want to ping him
[02:14] <jrib> I'm not a thing
[02:14] <coreymon77> i know
[02:14] <coreymon77> i didnt mean you
 coreymon77, at jr.ub
[02:15] <coreymon77> whats that supposed to mean
[02:15] <PriceChild> coreymon77, i was "hehe"ing at jrib's comment... but so as not to ping him and waste his time coming to look what was going on, I obscured his nick slightly
[02:15] <coreymon77> oh
[02:16] <coreymon77> ya, i know, im a chatterbox
[02:45] <ubotu> Pelo called the ops in #ubuntu
[02:46] <coreymon77> huh, thats an interesting feature
[02:46] <coreymon77> how does that work
[02:47] <nalioth> coreymon77: ask ubotu
[02:47] <coreymon77> how?
[02:47] <coreymon77> i cant just say, how those that work
[02:47] <coreymon77> does*
[02:48] <PriceChild> rodserling, want a test?
[02:49] <PriceChild> coreymon77, black magic
[02:49] <PriceChild> coreymon77, seveas coded the ubotu plugins
[02:49] <coreymon77> what triggers it?
[02:49] <PriceChild> coreymon77, someone saying "!ops"
[02:49] <Pici> ack
[02:49] <jrib> coreymon77: if you understand python (and probably even if you don't) you can read ubotu's source, it's linked in the launchpad project page
[02:49] <PriceChild> coreymon77, "/msg ubotu ops" to see what it says in the channel
[02:49] <PriceChild> Pici, lol got a hilight on that too?
[02:50] <Pici> PriceChild: Yes.
[02:50] <PriceChild> hehe sorry :)
[02:50] <Pici> No problem ;)
[02:51] <coreymon77> what, anything containing the word "o p s" (without the spaces) highlights you?
[02:52] <nalioth> coreymon77: just some of us
[02:54] <coreymon77> oh
[02:55] <coreymon77> taht will ben fun to experiment with :D:P
[02:55] <PriceChild> Hello NovaTel, how can I help?
[02:55] <PriceChild> rodserling, Can I help you?
[02:57] <rodserling> Oh yeah, can I get tested, please.
[02:57] <nalioth> hi NovaTel can we be of service?
[02:57] <coreymon77> tested?
[02:57] <jdong> lol
[02:57] <rodserling> or something.
[02:58] <jdong> sounds like that clinic I worked in 2 summers ago.
[02:58] <rodserling> >_>
[02:58] <PriceChild> rodserling, you pass, congrats
[02:58] <rodserling> oh yeah!
[02:59] <jdong> PriceChild: doesn't he get a lollipop?
[02:59] <jdong> PriceChild: and a cartoon bandage?
[02:59] <rodserling> red lolli
[02:59] <jdong> eew you like the red ones?
[02:59] <rodserling> why thank you.
[03:00] <PriceChild> rodserling, anything else we can help you with here?
[03:01] <nalioth> PriceChild: he wants a test, cantcha see?
[03:01] <rodserling> No thanks, I'm super dandy. I'll be izzle on my wizzle way.
[03:01] <PriceChild> nalioth, I did one, didn't ya see? ;)
[03:01] <nalioth> PriceChild: nope
[03:02] <coreymon77> how did you test him
[03:02] <coreymon77> what did you do?
[03:03] <PriceChild> coreymon77, we attempt to exploit him with a certain command
[03:03] <PriceChild> if he is no longer vulnerable (doesn't disconnect) then we allow him back in #ubuntu
[03:04] <coreymon77> PriceChild: exploit him? but you cant see or touch him! :D:P
[03:25] <nalioth> NovaTel: can we be of assistance?
[03:25] <mneptok> !tor
[03:25] <ubotu> The #ubuntu channel and related channels ban users joining from anonymous gateways like tor/silenceisdefeat/cgi:irc because the abuse:useful ratio is close to infinity:nothing -- project cloaks will let you join, otherwise you should simply not use an anonymizer.
[03:25] <ubotu> Attention tor users.  You may think you are anonymous, but you are not.  Please visit http://tor.unixgu.ru/ and see for yourself.   Please evaluate your need to use tor here on irc.  If you wish anonymity, Freenode offers cloaks of many different types. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
[03:51] <czedlitz> will someone here test me so i can get back to main
[03:52] <nalioth> czedlitz: have you set up your client or fixed your router?
[03:52] <jrib> passed
[03:52] <czedlitz> i setup the client since there us not newer firmware for my routerS
[03:52] <czedlitz> i have checked numerous times
[03:53] <czedlitz> i just always forget to set that when i format/reinstall
[03:53] <jrib> coreymon77: you may now rejoin #ubuntu, thanks for your patience
[03:53] <jrib> erm
[03:53] <czedlitz> thank you
[03:53] <jrib> the other c* person: czedlitz ^
[03:53] <czedlitz> :)
[03:57] <coreymon77> huh?
[03:57] <coreymon77> what happened
[03:57] <coreymon77> jrib: wait a sec, where you the one sending me those dcc transfers
[03:57] <nalioth> coreymon77: jrib has a lazy tab-completion finger
[03:57] <coreymon77> those SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP things
[03:58] <nalioth> coreymon77: no, that was a troll
[03:58] <coreymon77> oh
[03:58] <coreymon77> so you werent
[03:58] <nalioth> coreymon77: your client should tell you who sent them.
[03:58] <coreymon77> trolls using dcc sends?
[03:58] <nalioth> coreymon77: if it doesnt, get a new client
[03:58] <coreymon77> it does
[03:58] <nalioth> coreymon77: how long have you been on irc ?
[03:58] <coreymon77> a few years
[03:59] <coreymon77> i just closed colloquy cause it was getting annoying
[03:59] <coreymon77> konvs not getting them
[03:59] <nalioth> and you've NEVER heard of the dcc send exploit?
[03:59] <mneptok> years? liar.
[03:59] <mneptok> 21:58 -!-  idle     : 0 days 0 hours 0 mins 15 secs [signon: Thu Sep  6 16:48:38 2007]
[03:59] <mneptok> ;)
[03:59] <coreymon77> ive heard of it
[03:59] <coreymon77> mneptok: i do turn off my computer
[04:00] <coreymon77> mneptok: i dont mean years straight
[04:00] <coreymon77> nalioth: konv doesnt get them though
[04:00] <mneptok> my girlfriend is looking forward to a few more straight years from me.
[04:01] <nalioth> coreymon77: konv sucks
[04:01] <mneptok> but that nalioth. soooooooooo dreeeeeeeeeeeeeeamy.
[04:02] <coreymon77> i like it
[04:03] <nalioth> you may like it, but it is lacking
[04:04] <coreymon77> for what i do?
[04:05] <nalioth> coreymon77: if you're gonna be a channel op, it lacks many features
[04:06] <stdin> ^ unfortunately true
[04:06] <coreymon77> well, im not a channel op at the moment
[04:07] <nalioth> coreymon77: but you are  :)
[04:07] <coreymon77> i know
[04:07] <coreymon77> but not for any real channels
[04:07] <coreymon77> only the fun offtopic ones
[04:11] <coreymon77> nalioth: what wouold i need all the features for with the fun offtopic social channels
[04:12] <nalioth> because 'run offtopic social channels' get attacked too
[04:12] <nalioth> and you may be the only op around
[04:12] <coreymon77> not really
[04:13] <coreymon77> they pretty much are all op channels
[04:13] <stdin> sometimes there isn't even an #ubuntu op around, so you can't count on that
[04:13] <coreymon77> nixternal: hey
[06:41] <nalioth> xp_killer: can we help you?
[06:42] <xp_killer> no
[06:42] <xp_killer> i got all the help in effecs n fr , kubuntu
[06:42] <Hobbsee> right then.
[06:43] <xp_killer> im just visiten :/
[06:43] <xp_killer> oh wait
[06:44] <xp_killer> i haven receave an answer in effects for when u do the cube out side u can put another picture(i got beryl)im not finding the option
[06:45] <Hobbsee> and this is not a support channel.
[06:45] <Hobbsee> please see teh /topic
[06:46] <xp_killer> oh
[06:47] <im_a_ops_too> :)
[06:48] <nalioth> im_a_ops_too: if you've no purpose here, please find somewhere else to be
[07:12] <Hobbsee> nalioth: konvi doesnt suck, tyvm.
[07:12] <Hobbsee> the latest svn is quite nice.
[07:13] <nalioth> i prefer kvirc
[08:42] <mneptok> Konqversexi. Browse and design your database, with friends!
[12:17] <miky_> hola
[12:22] <miky_> luz
[12:23] <miky_> bnbjghkgggfgvfv
[12:23] <miky_> cvfghjjuhhh
[12:24] <PriceChild> cs k miky_ bah
[12:24] <PriceChild> second time lucky :)
[12:24] <Gary> lol
[12:24] <Gary> here have a spare /
[04:11] <ikonia> Hobbsee: whats going on ?
[04:12] <Hobbsee> ikonia: if you call the above "help", you have some very interesting definitions
[04:13] <ikonia> I'm offering the guy one to one help to get fesity working
[04:13] <ikonia> as he's really stuck
[04:13] <Hobbsee> and you've proved that you're not usefully helping out, so that's probably a fairly empty offer
[04:13] <ikonia> and is making a mess in gusty
[04:13] <ikonia> its not
[04:13] <Hobbsee> he'll make more of a mess in feisty
[04:13] <ikonia> I've helped many people one to one
[04:13] <ikonia> that why I said I'd help im through fesity
[04:13] <ikonia> explain how to configure the intel card and try to get acceleration working
[04:14] <ikonia> still happy to do so
[06:56] <ubotu> stefg called the ops in #ubuntu
[07:59] <PriceChild> Its a Friday :D
[08:01] <Pici> YES
[08:03] <ikonia> its been a long time coming this week
[08:05] <Pici> Even though it was a short week (in the US) it felt as long as ever
[08:05] <ikonia> why a short week in the us?
[08:06] <Pici> Labor Day was on Monday
[08:10] <ompaul> firstly that is labour you spell it wrong, and the soviets made it May 1 ;-)
[08:10] <PriceChild> *wonders who "Jacob Peddicord" is.
[08:11] <ompaul> the rest of the word standardised on May 1 and you, you had to be different, to compete with us ;-)
[08:12] <Pici> PriceChild: Is that the person whose feed was on the planet about #ubuntu netsplits?
[08:12] <PriceChild> Indeed.
[08:13] <Pici> I was wondering earlier today as well.
[08:25] <ompaul> Gary, na it is spell the words "post work pedant"
[08:25] <ompaul> my wife said that she would be read 20 mins ago I only want to collect my car arrrrrrrrrr
[08:26] <ompaul> I would have walked there already
[08:26] <ompaul> I think I will walk there now
[08:26] <PriceChild> channel 4 making fun of mr. bush's speech today.... at the opec (apec) summit about all those austrian troops in iraq
[09:12] <Amaranth> !help
[09:12] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[09:12] <Amaranth> !support
[09:12] <ubotu> the official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
[09:33] <xp_killer> ops oops wrong room
[09:46] <Bjornalf> so i'm supposed to ask to be tested after changing the port i connect on right?
[09:52] <Bjornalf> can i please be tested?
[09:53] <Amaranth> Bjornalf: join #amaranth
[10:55] <PriceChild> Amaranth, we usually just doo the dcc tests in here now
[10:56] <jrib> well, in a pm
[10:56] <Amaranth> ah
[11:12] <xp_killer> hello
[11:13] <xp_killer> does it have a chanel for help with kotepe ,amsn yahoo etc?
[11:13] <xp_killer> ops?
[11:13] <jrib> someone should start #411
[11:13] <PriceChild> xp_killer, #ubuntu
[12:56] <PriceChild> ompaul, is that him on another proxy grr?
[12:56] <PriceChild> *waits*
[12:56] <ompaul> don't klnow
[12:57] <ompaul> who?
[12:57] <PriceChild> dumbass2 nick'd to slackware__
[12:57] <ompaul> most likely
[12:58] <PriceChild> jrib, sounds good
[12:58] <jrib> had same real name
[12:58] <PriceChild> ahhh sneaky :)
[12:59] <jrib> and he says I'm "irrelevant", so sounds like him
[12:59] <PriceChild> lol said that to me too...
[12:59] <PriceChild> how rare
[12:59] <jrib> he's back
[01:00] <ompaul> get him to prove he is him please
[01:00] <PriceChild> ompaul, he joined just to say that... trolling?
[01:00] <ompaul> suppose so
 I think you understand a little better.  I'll leave it at that, and come in _when I feel like it_ occasionally.  Your ops status makes you a little more than you were without it-- nothing.  Don't question me again, or you will lose control of your channel :)
 Ever.
[01:01] <Gary> what a lovely guy
[01:02] <jrib> that must mean he is out of proxies
[01:02] <ompaul> jrib, give him 5
[01:15] <mneptok> bah. evaders.
[01:15] <PriceChild> who is it?
[01:15] <mneptok> File13
[01:15] <mneptok> he changes idnets and gets new DHCP leases with drastically different masks
[01:16] <mneptok> *idents
[02:01] <AndrewB> 00:01 -!- _[_^_ULTOR_^_] _<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu
[02:01] <AndrewB> Looks like a dodgy nick.. just to highlight


[00:05] <greg__> @bluescream does it work with Ardour?
[01:16] <bluesscream> yes, you can control and play all your synthesizers and other midi apps live with your pc keyboard, connect and record them by jack to ardour.
[01:16] <bluesscream> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/RwZnRT52
[01:20] <persia> That looks much nicer than vkeybd
[01:22] <bluesscream> don't follow this link I forgot how to work with pastebin
[01:24] <bluesscream> yes vmpk is much more elaborated
[01:26]  * persia wonders why it's "Priority: extra"
[01:32] <persia> Odd.  keyboard only seems to control one octave, split between two "hands".  With the "left hand", I seem to only be able to press three keys at once, and four with the "right hand"
[01:39] <bluesscream> no such limits here
[01:44] <persia> Pressing 'Z'+'X'+'C'+'S'+'D' gets you 5-note dischordant polyphony?
[01:45] <persia> I did find a second octave (more like 1.5 octaves) though: seems to be a 2-manual device (which is nifty in many ways)
[01:46] <persia> (from 'Q' and from 'Z')
[01:57] <bluesscream> you're right, these are limitations by these pc-keyboards. They are not constructed for this use. Same with virtualkeyboard. It's a poor substitute for real piano keys
[02:00] <bluesscream> you can modify settings like octave space, language specific keys etc
[02:14] <bluesscream> imo you will not use a pc keybord to perform live music with virtuosity. They are just useful for saving an idea or as an additional controller i.E. for a continuo in a complex performance
[02:41] <persia> Ah, so it's a PC keyboard limitation?  Using a fancier keyboard (e.g. a gaming keyboard) might allow wider use?  That sounds promising.
[02:41] <persia> (and yes, one hopes anyone serious about it is able to get a proper master keyboard)
[05:00] <Marians> Buenas noches! Alguien habla español?
[05:01] <persia> Some folks do, but the charter for this channel is English-only.
[05:01] <persia> !es
[05:01] <persia> You can ask a question in Spanish if you must, but no promises that anyone both knows the answer and reads+writes Spanish is around.
[05:03] <Marians> gracias!


[02:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libretls [amd64] (lunar-proposed) [3.7.0-4]
[02:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libretls [armhf] (lunar-proposed) [3.7.0-4]
[02:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libretls [riscv64] (lunar-proposed) [3.7.0-4]
[02:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libusermetrics [amd64] (lunar-proposed) [1.2.0-3]
[02:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libretls [arm64] (lunar-proposed) [3.7.0-4]
[02:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libretls [s390x] (lunar-proposed) [3.7.0-4]
[02:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libretls [ppc64el] (lunar-proposed) [3.7.0-4]
[11:51] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-cryptography/38.0.4-1
[11:51] <LocutusOfBorg> vorlon, hello, and happy new year
[11:52] <LocutusOfBorg> Missing build dependencies: librust-pyo3-macros-0.17-dev
[11:52] <LocutusOfBorg> can we do some i386 magick?
[12:03] <LocutusOfBorg> or seb128 ^^ :)
[12:03] <LocutusOfBorg> happy new year to you too!
[16:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: primesieve [amd64] (lunar-proposed/universe) [11.0+ds-2] (no packageset)
[16:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: primesieve [ppc64el] (lunar-proposed/universe) [11.0+ds-2] (no packageset)
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[17:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: dygraphs [amd64] (lunar-proposed/none) [2.1.2-1] (no packageset)
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[21:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: runc (kinetic-proposed/main) [1.1.2-0ubuntu1.1 => 1.1.4-0ubuntu1~22.10.1] (ubuntu-server)
[21:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: runc (jammy-proposed/main) [1.1.0-0ubuntu1.1 => 1.1.4-0ubuntu1~22.04.1] (ubuntu-server)
[21:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: runc (focal-proposed/main) [1.1.0-0ubuntu1~20.04.2 => 1.1.4-0ubuntu1~20.04.1] (no packageset)
[21:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: runc (bionic-proposed/universe) [1.1.0-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 1.1.4-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (no packageset)
[21:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: containerd (kinetic-proposed/main) [1.6.4-0ubuntu1.1 => 1.6.12-0ubuntu1~22.10.1] (ubuntu-server)
[21:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: containerd (jammy-proposed/main) [1.5.9-0ubuntu3.1 => 1.6.12-0ubuntu1~22.04.1] (ubuntu-server)
[21:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: containerd (focal-proposed/main) [1.5.9-0ubuntu1~20.04.6 => 1.6.12-0ubuntu1~20.04.1] (no packageset)
[21:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: containerd (bionic-proposed/universe) [1.5.9-0ubuntu1~18.04.2 => 1.6.12-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (no packageset)
[21:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: docker.io (kinetic-proposed/universe) [20.10.16-0ubuntu1 => 20.10.21-0ubuntu1~22.10.1] (no packageset)
[22:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: docker.io (jammy-proposed/universe) [20.10.12-0ubuntu4 => 20.10.21-0ubuntu1~22.04.1] (no packageset)
[22:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: docker.io (focal-proposed/universe) [20.10.12-0ubuntu2~20.04.1 => 20.10.21-0ubuntu1~20.04.1] (no packageset)
[22:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: docker.io (bionic-proposed/universe) [20.10.12-0ubuntu2~18.04.1 => 20.10.21-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (no packageset)
[22:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted dygraphs [amd64] (lunar-proposed) [2.1.2-1]
[22:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted primesieve [arm64] (lunar-proposed) [11.0+ds-2]
[22:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted primesieve [ppc64el] (lunar-proposed) [11.0+ds-2]
[22:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted primesieve [s390x] (lunar-proposed) [11.0+ds-2]
[22:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted primesieve [amd64] (lunar-proposed) [11.0+ds-2]
[22:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted primesieve [riscv64] (lunar-proposed) [11.0+ds-2]
[22:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted primesieve [armhf] (lunar-proposed) [11.0+ds-2]
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libdevice-i2c-perl [ppc64el] (lunar-proposed/none) [0.06-1] (no packageset)
[23:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libdevice-i2c-perl [amd64] (lunar-proposed/none) [0.06-1] (no packageset)
[23:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libdevice-i2c-perl [armhf] (lunar-proposed/none) [0.06-1] (no packageset)
[23:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libdevice-i2c-perl [arm64] (lunar-proposed/none) [0.06-1] (no packageset)
[23:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libmath-amoeba-perl [amd64] (lunar-proposed/none) [0.05-2] (no packageset)
[23:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libsyntax-highlight-perl-perl [amd64] (lunar-proposed/none) [1.00-2] (no packageset)
[23:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libio-termios-perl [amd64] (lunar-proposed/none) [0.09-1] (no packageset)
[23:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ruby-telesign [amd64] (lunar-proposed/none) [2.2.3-1] (no packageset)
[23:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mpv.el [amd64] (lunar-proposed/none) [0.2.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libdevice-i2c-perl [s390x] (lunar-proposed/universe) [0.06-1] (no packageset)


[02:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Xubuntu Desktop amd64 [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[03:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu MATE Desktop amd64 [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[05:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base amd64 [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[05:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base arm64 [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[05:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base armhf [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[05:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base ppc64el [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[05:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base s390x [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[05:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[07:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server Subiquity amd64 [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[07:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server Subiquity arm64 [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[07:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server Subiquity ppc64el [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[07:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server Subiquity s390x [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[08:42] <LocutusOfBorg> hello, how do I know which autodep8 version is running on the autopkgtests servers?
[08:42] <LocutusOfBorg> bugs.debian.org/970910 for rationale
[08:42] <LocutusOfBorg> for some reasons we might have an outdated version?
[08:52] <ginggs> LocutusOfBorg: could also be something like debian bug #961138
[08:53] <LocutusOfBorg> yes I think this is the issue
[08:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Desktop amd64 [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[09:47] <LocutusOfBorg> so, Laney can we please have autodep8 upgraded? :)
[09:49] <LocutusOfBorg> we need the   * Read configuration from debian/tests/autopkgtest-pkg-${type}.conf
[09:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: liblzf (focal-proposed/primary) [3.6-2~ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[09:55] <LocutusOfBorg> apw, hello, I removed liblzf from virtualbox source, because its now maintained in the archive. unfortunately the new virtualbox needs it now, and I need to backport the new virtualbox in focal because of kernel 5.8 soon. ^^ is it possible to have a look? its a leaf library
[12:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-oem [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [4.15.0-1098.108] (kernel)
[15:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-oem [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [4.15.0-1098.108]
[15:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-kvm [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [5.8.0-1004.4]
[15:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Budgie Desktop amd64 [Groovy Beta] (20200926) has been added
[17:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop amd64 [Groovy Beta] has been updated (20200926)
[19:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Studio DVD amd64 [Groovy Beta] has been updated (20200926)
[23:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Kylin Desktop amd64 [Groovy Beta] has been updated (20200926)


[06:46] <sparky1> hello!!!
[06:46] <sparky1> welcome!!
[06:47] <sparky1> i am sparky1
[06:47] <sparky1> welcome sparky1
[06:49] <sparky1> sparky1 is having some technical difficulties
[06:51] <sparky1> sparky1 would like to extend a greeting to anyone paying attention
[06:52] <sparky1> 0_o
[06:55] <sparky1> hello
[06:56] <sparky1> i am having some trouble
[06:56] <sparky1> Executing 'grub-install/dev/sda' failed.
[06:57] <sparky1> This is a fatal error.
[07:00] <sparky1> Executing 'grub-install/dev/sda' failed.
[07:00] <sparky1> This is a fatal error.
[07:05] <sparky1> Executing 'grub-install/dev/sda' failed.
[07:05] <sparky1> This is a fatal error.
[07:09] <sparky1> so these guys in ubuntustudio chat thought it had something to do with my hdd's being in a raid0 array...
[07:15] <sparky1> hee hee i think i figured it out from the forum...
[07:15] <sparky1> THANKS ANYWAYS!!!!!!
[07:15] <sparky1> =P