[08:32] <Chipaca> ｇｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｄ  ｍｏｒｎｉｎｇ！
[08:41] <bthomas> 𝐺𝑜𝑜𝑑 𝑀𝑜𝑟𝑛𝑖𝑛𝑔
[08:41] <bthomas>
[08:50] <Chipaca> bthomas: how're things going?
[08:53] <bthomas> Chipaca: I working on how to refactor prometheus charm test cases to use ops.testing.Harness. The Harness supports testing the whole Charm class. Some of the test cases in the prometheus charm test utilties like "adapter/k8s.py" which makes rest calls to Kubernetes API server. This does not seem to fit the Harness framework. I am ignoring this for now and looking at what all can be refactored.
[08:55] <bthomas> Also reading a bit of some of the python standard library docs
[09:14] <jam> morning Chipaca
[09:14] <bthomas> morning jam: looks like you are still jet lagged
[09:15] <jam> bthomas, at one point I was thinking to always use my local time. Right now, I just always say good morning.
[09:15] <jam> It is always morning somewhere
[09:16] <bthomas> :-) It must be night there and you are awake.
[09:16] <jam> bthomas, I haven't moved to the US yet. it is only 1pm here.
[09:16] <bthomas> ah
[09:16] <jam> I'm on a plane next Wednesday.
[09:17] <Chipaca> fly cartesian
[09:20] <jam> Chipaca, what voice is ChanServ giving you?
[09:21] <Chipaca> jam: a blue one
[09:51] <Chipaca> what a nightmare this logging thing
[09:51] <Chipaca> reloading a module does not reset its globals, so test_log's reset_logging was wrong
[09:52] <Chipaca> and it broke logassert for some reason i haven't been able to figure out
[09:57] <Chipaca> mmm, pytest-xdist → ops test suite finishes in 12 seconds
[10:08] <jam> Chipaca, shiny. How does xdist handle mock patching, etc. Just farmed out subsets to different processes?
[10:08] <Chipaca> jam: yep, just farmed out
[10:08] <Chipaca> jam: different from pytest-parallel which does threading (and breaks spectacularly)
[10:08] <jam> Chipaca, I don't know if you ever used it, but 'subunit' from Robert Collins had a bunch of similar ideas
[10:09] <Chipaca> used it for syncdaemon, a couple of lives ago
[10:10] <bthomas> Which component is responsible for ensuring that status of a pods in an application unit deployed by a charm is correctly set ? Is it Juju/Kubernetes, the Operator Framework or the Charm ?
[10:10] <jam> bthomas, the charm sets a basic status, Juju tempers that status as it knows that the pod hasn't finished starting yet.
[10:11] <mup> PR operator#373 opened: fix up logging tests impacting global state so much <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/373>
[10:11] <Chipaca> jam: ^ that was biting me yesterday when trying to test the storage heuristics branch
[10:17] <jam> Chipaca, responded
[10:21] <Chipaca> jam: re²sponded
[10:21] <Chipaca> :)
[10:21] <jam> rerere
[10:22] <Chipaca> reeee
[10:33] <jam> Chipaca, probably here is better for active conversation: What I'd like is that for whatever code path we are executing that is calling setup_root_logging, refactor it to not be called in the path that the test suite needs.
[10:52] <Chipaca> jam: i could add a no_logging bool on main
[10:52] <jam> Chipaca, from a side point, why are we triggering main itself for that many tests...
[10:53] <Chipaca> jam: well, it is test_main :-p
[10:53] <Chipaca> jam: I'll see if it can be pared down a bit, maybe i got carried away?
[10:53] <Chipaca> the ones that call out to subprocess shouldn't need this
[10:53] <jam> Chipaca, if it is only test_main then we are probably ok
[10:54] <jam> (and test_log, but that is also explicit about logging)
[10:54] <Chipaca> yep, only test_main
[10:54] <jam> It just felt like lots of test suites, but that is just because we use inheritence to do scenarios
[10:54] <Chipaca> and I think I should be able to take it off the _TestMain subclasses
[10:54] <jam> I thought the inherited TestMain were using subprocess
[10:55] <Chipaca> exactly, i'll see if those were needed
[10:55] <Chipaca> give me 5
[10:58] <Chipaca> jam: indeed i can drop all the _TestMain decorators
[10:59] <Chipaca> that was silly of me, got carried away
[11:00] <Chipaca> jam: better now?
[11:01] <jam> Chipaca, yep. I'm curious why you need TestDispatch, something there where we are doing direct main() interaction?
[11:01] <Chipaca> jam: all the test cases there call main directly
[11:02] <facubatista> ¡Muy buenos días a todos!
[11:02] <Chipaca> jam: via the one _check method
[11:02] <jam> morning facubatista
[11:02] <jam> Chipaca, approved
[11:02] <bthomas> Morning facubatista
[11:02] <Chipaca> facubatista: 👋❗
[11:02] <jam> https://www.ubuntusoftware.net/about/ looks like a trademark infringement waiting
[11:03] <Chipaca> what the
[11:03] <Chipaca> and with a german phone
[11:03] <bthomas> Hell, almost certainly is an infringement
[11:04] <jam> They aren't using the Circle of Friends at least
[11:05] <facubatista> Chipaca, how is it breaking logassert? maybe we could improve logassert's resiliance?
[11:05] <Chipaca> facubatista: I don't know :-) logassert doesn't see the logs
[11:05] <Chipaca> facubatista: probably because test_log was doing logging.shutdown(); importlib.reload(logging)
[11:06] <facubatista> ja
[11:06] <Chipaca> facubatista: not sure logassert can be made resilient to that :)
[11:06] <Chipaca> (and reload doesn't do what you'd expect with globals)
[11:07] <facubatista> Chipaca, it doesn't re-load the module?
[11:08] <Chipaca> facubatista: it reloads it, but the module's dict is reused
[11:08] <Chipaca> facubatista: also,
[11:08] <Chipaca> If a module imports objects from another module using from ... import ..., calling reload() for the other module does not redefine the objects imported from it — one way around this is to re-execute the from statement, another is to use import and qualified names (module.name) instead.
[11:09] <facubatista> makes sense, yes
[11:10] <facubatista> it looks like test_log can be improved, yes
[11:10] <Chipaca> facubatista: and logging uses weakref which makes the whole thing harder to reason, for me
[11:10] <Chipaca> facubatista: #373
[11:10] <mup> PR #373: fix up logging tests impacting global state so much <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/373>
[11:10] <jam> Chipaca, any feedback on https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/99 so I can land that for Facu?
[11:10] <mup> PR charmcraft#99: charmcraft/jujuignore.py: Allow extending the list of patterns <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/99>
[11:11] <Chipaca> jam: me? reviewing _other_ people's code?
[11:11]  * Chipaca apologises
[11:12] <facubatista> jam, if you could change the "from .." thingie, it would be great, thanks!
[11:12] <jam> facubatista, I just pushed the change
[11:12] <facubatista> awesome, thanks!
[11:12] <jam> Chipaca, apologizing for reviewing someone else's code? Or for misspelling apologises :P
[11:14]  * Chipaca makes guises for Apollo
[11:16] <Chipaca> jam: not sure why the test of relative imports changes so suddenly, for me
[11:17] <Chipaca> year ye, hear ye: {**d} is weird
[11:19] <jam> Chipaca, I thought it would be (.*d) :0
[11:20] <jam> Chipaca, well, you might create .hidden file, but you'd never create a ..hidden file
[11:20] <jam> I think it breaks the feeling of a path
[11:21] <jam> ../foo is normal
[11:21] <jam> ..foo is not
[11:21] <Chipaca> jam: if d is a map object (as in collections.abc.Mapping), {**d} creates a copy of it (like dict(**d))
[11:21] <Chipaca> if a and b are mappings, {**a, **b} creates a new, merged one
[11:22] <jam> ah, I'd never tried to do that with {}.
[11:22] <Chipaca> bah, in both cases it's not a copy/merged one but a dict with the k/v
[11:22] <Chipaca> new from 3.5
[11:22] <Chipaca> don't like it
[11:22] <Chipaca> :)
[11:22] <Chipaca> was reminded of it by somebody just now
[11:22] <jam> bah humbug I say
[11:22] <Chipaca> all them modern bows and arrows
[11:22] <jam> Chipaca, I suppose it is a syntax like list[:]
[11:23] <jam> but {**dict} doesn't quite ring the same to me
[11:23] <Chipaca> hush, next they'll be doing [*list]
[11:23] <Chipaca> waaait
[11:23] <Chipaca> that already works
[11:23] <Chipaca> /o\
[11:31] <jam> Chipaca, I will be missing the next meeting. The finished processing my wife's passport but I have to go pick it up *right now* or they keep it over the weekend.
[11:32] <Chipaca> jam: go go go
[11:32] <jam> Chipaca, our scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should
[11:32] <jam> [*list]
[11:33] <Chipaca> jam: ask me about [*a, *b]
[11:34] <jam> Chipaca, that looks to my eyes as creating [[1,2,3], [4,5,6]]
[11:34] <Chipaca> jam: no that would be just [a,b]
[11:34] <Chipaca> clearly * is the asplode operator
[12:40] <bthomas> flake8 gives me W503. But if I fix that it gives me W504. Since W503 is deprecated I am adding it to the ignore list.
[12:58] <Chipaca> bthomas: maybe your flake8 is old?
[12:59] <Chipaca> bthomas: because that change was merged in 2018
[12:59] <bthomas> Chipaca: Thanks. my flake8 version = 3.7.9 .
[13:03] <Chipaca> bthomas: huh, i can't get those to trigger here
[13:03]  * Chipaca tries a bit more
[13:03] <narindergupta> Chipaca, hi good morning. I am in process of setting the environment variable in my pod spec do you know how can we setup for conaintaners somehow env: is not recognized
[13:03] <narindergupta> ops.model.ModelError: b'ERROR json: unknown field "env"\n'
[13:04] <narindergupta> I am using the template to define the pod spec and replacing the variable.
[13:04] <Chipaca> narindergupta: can you show me the code?
[13:06] <narindergupta> Chipaca, I started with this http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/v6GXk2RRKW/ but this is my current template file http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/pfFNs4vPwS/
[13:06] <narindergupta> As I may ask to add more feature in k8s related to resources
[13:07] <narindergupta> Chipaca, as K8s get auto scalability feature based on resource usage which is good way to do autoscaling as well.
[13:08] <narindergupta> Chipaca, this is my http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PGgR2Ccnt4/ charm.py
[13:09] <bthomas> Chipaca: hmmm . It was triggering on this commit of mine https://github.com/balbirthomas/charm-k8s-prometheus/commit/d4a82c43d1e8f56a9bf1970dbf4aae73ebffb817 (second hunk)
[13:11]  * bthomas rushes to get coffee before standup
[13:27] <Chipaca> narindergupta: I think your problem is that in that first link, the 'env' block is indented such that it isnside a port
[13:29] <Chipaca> narindergupta: I suspect most of those things aren't meant to be inside a port
[13:29] <narindergupta> Chipaca, correct it is not the port let me fix that and restart
[13:30] <narindergupta> I was trying to follow this https://raw.githubusercontent.com/kubernetes/website/master/content/en/examples/application/cassandra/cassandra-statefulset.yaml
[13:30] <narindergupta> Chipaca, may I know what else is covered apart from port, env, readinessProbe,
[13:31] <Chipaca> narindergupta: covered by what?
[13:32] <narindergupta> By framework like when I tried resources, securityContext and lifecycle I got the same error
[13:32] <Chipaca> narindergupta: because you're putting them under 'ports', and they don't go there
[13:32] <Chipaca> narindergupta: this has nothing to do with the framework
[13:32] <narindergupta> Oh ok
[13:32] <facubatista> Chipaca, meeting?
[13:32] <Chipaca> facubatista: trying to
[13:38] <narindergupta> Chipaca, here is new modified file with correct syntax and hopefully it will work http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/s49Xhztf3Y/
[13:41] <narindergupta> Chipaca, same error ops.model.ModelError: b'ERROR json: unknown field "resources"\n'
[13:41] <narindergupta> application-charm-k8s-cassandra: 13:40:47 ERROR juju.worker.uniter.operation hook "start" (via hook dispatching script: dispatch) failed: exit status 1
[13:43] <Chipaca> narindergupta: is this file supposed to have the same structure as the cassandra-statefulset.yaml you linked?
[13:46] <narindergupta> Chipaca, this is pod spec I am planning to create through template and the way Cassandra deployed on kubernetes is the one from link I shared which I am trying to replicate through juju.
[13:47] <narindergupta> Chipaca, while writing Kafka charm I used this http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZvCf8Drt3R/
[13:50] <Chipaca> narindergupta: https://discourse.juju.is/t/updated-podspec-yaml-new-features/2124
[13:50] <Chipaca> narindergupta: in particular, a lot of those things need to be under 'kubernetes'
[13:51] <Chipaca> narindergupta: look for 'k8s specific container attributes'
[13:51] <narindergupta> Oh ok
[14:41] <Chipaca> facubatista: https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/116 fwiw
[14:41] <mup> PR charmcraft#116: include install info in README <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/116>
[14:42] <facubatista> ack
[14:49] <Chipaca> facubatista: also plz can haz https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/373
[14:49] <mup> PR #373: fix up logging tests impacting global state so much <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/373>
[14:49] <Chipaca> facubatista: so i can merge it into the storage thing
[14:50] <facubatista> Chipaca, reviewing
[14:59] <Chipaca> facubatista: thanks!
[15:06] <mup> PR operator#373 closed: fix up logging tests impacting global state so much <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/373>
[15:31] <mup> PR operator#374 opened: use controller-side storage automatically in some cases <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/374>
[15:43] <Chipaca> facubatista: i'm getting test failures on charmcraft master
[15:44] <facubatista> nice! (not)
[15:45] <Chipaca> facubatista: can you test if https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4G3vG6zz9B/ still works for you in your particular env?
[15:46] <facubatista> Chipaca, how are you running the tests?
[15:46] <Chipaca> facubatista: in a virtualenv
[15:46] <narindergupta> Chipaca, thanks I was able at least start the pod now as I have to remove few things and check back later the issues with template
[15:46] <Chipaca> facubatista: using pytest
[15:46] <Chipaca> narindergupta: good to hear
[15:48] <facubatista> Chipaca, but that works for me... see https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/5vDkCkZYHM/ , l.1 is how I normally run the tests, l.22 is inside the venv
[15:48] <Chipaca> facubatista: you seem to always have a PYTHONPATH i guess :)
[15:55] <facubatista> Chipaca, oh, yes
[15:55] <facubatista> Chipaca, testing your patch...
[15:58] <facubatista> Chipaca, it worked, although I'd prefer this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/qZWs56W43k/
[15:59] <Chipaca> facubatista: if you can reproduce a scenario where that is needed, sure :)
[15:59] <Chipaca> i almost wrote exactly that, but, aiui if you don't need it outside you won't need it inside
[16:00] <Chipaca> capisci?
[16:02] <facubatista> Chipaca, is `export PYTHONPATH=` the way to "delete" a envvar?
[16:02] <Chipaca> facubatista: unset
[16:03] <Chipaca> facubatista: although most things don't differentiate between empty and unset
[16:04] <facubatista> Chipaca, see https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8p26CqbBvT/
[16:05] <facubatista> I need the PYTHONPATH to the venv be reused, no matter if I had it before or not
[16:06] <facubatista> Chipaca, forgot to include in that pastebin that my PYTHONPATH is normally set to '/home/facundo/.bin/pymods' (so the envvar is there, totally unrelated to any venv)
[16:06]  * facubatista brb
[16:45] <Chipaca> facubatista: you there?
[16:46] <facubatista> yeap
[16:47] <facubatista> Chipaca, yeap
[16:48] <Chipaca> facubatista: something funky going on with the environ for test_main breaking setting TMPDIR, but i figured a workaround
[16:50] <facubatista> TMPDIR?
[16:50] <Chipaca> facubatista: explanation in a pr soon
[16:50] <facubatista> incenption tests are hard
[16:50] <facubatista> inception ones too
[16:52] <Chipaca> facubatista: https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/117
[16:52] <mup> PR charmcraft#117: a couple of fixes for tests <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/117>
[16:53] <Chipaca> facubatista: fixes the leftover tmp dirses
[16:53] <Chipaca> and with that i think i eod
[17:17]  * Chipaca EODs
[18:13] <facubatista> justinclark, easy PRs for you to start reviewing...
[18:13] <facubatista> this is trivial: https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/116
[18:13] <mup> PR charmcraft#116: include install info in README <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/116>
[18:13] <facubatista> this is easy in the fix, but may lead you to read some code: https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/117
[18:13] <mup> PR charmcraft#117: a couple of fixes for tests <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/117>
[18:14] <facubatista> and this one is kind of easy too, and dives you right into complex code: https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/118
[18:14] <mup> PR charmcraft#118: Some changes in preparation for big "include everything but jujuignored" branch <Created by facundobatista> <https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/118>
[18:27] <justinclark> Awesome. I'll start going through these facubatista.
[18:28] <facubatista> justinclark, awesome! let us know any questions
[19:42] <narindergupta> Chipaca, do we know how to get IP address of a pod?
[20:06] <drewn3ss> facubatista: I know you're working on issue #39, not sure how far along it is, but I just noticed the README[.md] is not included, hence, no info in charmstore uploads.  Miight be nice to pick up README and README.md in the mean time in current code, unless you're close.  This file can't be relocated to /src to be pulled in automatically.
[20:06] <mup> PR #39: Change Relation.apps to Relation.app <Created by johnsca> <Merged by niemeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/39>
[20:07] <facubatista> drewn3ss, I'm close on finishing #39, PRs are already proposed
[20:07] <mup> PR #39: Change Relation.apps to Relation.app <Created by johnsca> <Merged by niemeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/39>
[20:08] <drewn3ss> sweet, ta!
[20:08] <facubatista> charmcraft#39, that is
[20:08] <mup> Issue charmcraft#39: Include all project files (whatever is present there) <Created by facundobatista> <https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/issues/39>
[20:32]  * facubatista eods


[12:51] <adom> topic is dry, just fyi
[12:56] <marcoceppi> I think only bcurtiswx can change it
[12:59]  * adom shrugs.
[13:00] <adom> marcoceppi: random quetion, was it you that has the extended cell phone battery or was that ChinnoDog?
[13:00] <marcoceppi> adom: wasn't me, probably ChinnoDog
[13:03] <adom> k
[13:07] <adom> marcoceppi: any word if Ubuntu Touch runs nicely on Nexus 5? I haven't Googled yet, just curious.
[13:08] <marcoceppi> adom: not that I know of
[13:08] <adom> :(
[13:24] <ChinnoDog> I have phone that never dies.
[13:31] <adom> ...until you smash it on the sidewalk by accident.
[14:12] <ChinnoDog> ok, I have the phone that will never die without assistance.


[00:38] <josh-l> can anyone tell me where i can find debs for ubuntu kernel 2.6.29 please
[02:59] <josh-l> wondering is there anything special I need to do when installing restricted extras? it seems to install a lot of lib32s and other 32 stuff
[03:01] <kb9vqf> josh-l: AFAIK the 32 bit stuff is present to allow restricted 32-bit-only applications (Flash, etc.) to run on a 64-bit system
[03:01] <josh-l> kb9vqf: what if i'm using flash x86-64 then
[03:02] <kb9vqf> josh-l: Another is Sun Java
[03:02] <vorian> flash, java, msfonts, etc
[03:02] <josh-l> is that stuff going to slow anything down trying to use 32 bit stuff?
[03:02] <vorian> no
[03:02] <josh-l> there is also java 64bit now
[03:02] <josh-l> ok cool
[03:02] <josh-l> can anyone remind me how to install something without recommended using apt-get pls? --no-recomended or something
[03:13] <JontheEchidna> josh-l: --no-install-recommends
[03:13] <josh-l> thanks JontheEchidna
[03:39] <claydoh> more nice reviews : http://lxer.com/module/newswire/ext_link.php?rid=118096
[03:40] <claydoh> err http://tuxarena.blogspot.com/2009/03/10-essential-applications-included-in.html
[06:16] <DaSkreech> jjesse: ping
[10:20] <Riddell> whee
[10:50]  * jussi01 waves to Riddell
[10:56] <a|wen> hi Riddell!
[10:56]  * a|wen waves to jussi01
[10:58]  * jussi01 waves back
[11:19] <Lure> Riddell: hi - do you have time to upload digikam from before beta-freeze?
[11:19]  * Lure not sure if you got it last time
[11:37] <Riddell> Lure: sorry, will get onto digikam shortly
[11:59] <Riddell> ~twitter update SNCF doing their very best to make sure I can't buy train tickets
[12:00] <kubotu> status updated
[12:57] <Riddell> Lure: uploaded, sorry for the delay
[13:17] <agateau_> Riddell: SNCF? Does this mean you are going to be at SLOS?
[13:18] <Riddell> agateau_: no was trying to book a train to UDS, failed miserably though
[13:18] <agateau> Riddell: mmm you do not go by plane?
[13:19] <Riddell> well I will now but I was trying not to destroy the planet more than I have to
[13:19] <agateau> oh I see
[13:19] <Riddell> but their website is broken, it's even broken for the staff when you phone them up
[13:19] <agateau> that would have been a long trip, though
[13:20] <Riddell> worth it if I don't feel guilty when half of England is under water
[13:21] <agateau> you're right
[13:21] <Riddell> ~twitter update I hope Nicolas Sarcozy privatises SNCF
[13:22] <kubotu> status updated
[13:22] <Riddell> that's how grumpy I am ^^
[13:22] <agateau> (says the guy who is considering bringing is family by plane for weekend between allhands and uds)
[13:22] <agateau> Riddell: not that privatising railway companies did any good to GB
[13:22] <agateau> :)
[13:23] <Riddell> at least I /can/ book tickets online here
[13:24] <agateau> hehe
[13:26] <agateau> Riddell: I found the comic applet useless for me without a one-line patch, can it go for Jaunty (it's hardly essential)?
[13:26] <Riddell> agateau: working comic applet is very important!
[13:26] <agateau> :)
[13:27] <agateau> Riddell: does it work well for you? for me the "Configure" button does not want to go away
[13:27] <agateau> without the patch (picked from trunk)
[13:28] <Riddell> agateau: yep, can't get it to do very much here
[13:28] <Riddell> agateau: but check if the patch is in 4.2.2, we're going to upload that shortly
[13:28] <agateau> just checked: it is
[13:28] <agateau> Riddell: jaunty will come with 4.2.2?
[13:30] <Riddell> agateau: yes, want to test the packages?
[13:31] <agateau> Yes, would be interesting
[13:31] <agateau> (and avoid patching obsolete code :D)
[13:33] <agateau> Riddell: so i am a Kubuntu-ninja? do i need to go shop for ninja gear now?
[13:46] <Nightrose> otherwise you wouldn't be a good ninja would you? ;-)
[13:56] <agateau> Nightrose: :) let's hope they have my size
[13:56] <Nightrose> :D
[14:49] <seele> is there a beta test page?
[14:57] <jjesse> seele: on iso.qa.ubuntu.com there is a page for reporting results of the beta isos if that is what youare looking for?
[15:06] <seele> jjesse: ah yeah, i guess so
[15:06] <seele> thanks
[15:16] <stefanlsd> Hi guys, im trying to fix a FTBFS issue by using <includehints> in a .ui file and i'm getting Unexpected element includehints.
[15:21] <reisi> can anyone running latest Jaunty with Intel (UXA enabled) drivers confirm X leaking 50-100MB memory per ~6h?
[15:22] <freinhard> reisi: ack, got a memory leak here to
[15:22] <freinhard> reisi: i think that's already reported at freedesktop.org
[15:23] <reisi> freinhard: great, no need to dup it then!
[15:25] <freinhard> reisi: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20766#1 maybe you'd like to reply to this comment.
[15:29] <reisi> freinhard: i'll do that.. here I was thinking I had already regged to every possible bugzilla installation on the planet but again found a new one :)
[15:29] <Riddell> stefanlsd: I've not used those but can you add them from Designer?  presumably it'll be better at getting the XML right
[15:30] <stefanlsd> Riddell: thanks. I dont have designer, thought it may just be easier to add it to the xml.
[15:31] <freinhard> reisi: freedesktop.org should install the openID plugin for bugzilla, but i guess the're in lack of manpower
[15:31] <stefanlsd> Riddell: Just installed it though, let me try :)
[15:35] <stefanlsd> Riddell: Ok. includehints doesnt exist anymore - it now looks like  <includes>  <include location="local">volumeslider.h</include>  </includes>
[15:44] <a|wen> freinhard and reisi: might be worth checking for a bug in LP and be sure to link against the upstream bug; so the fix can get included when available
[15:46] <freinhard> a|wen: i linked a b.f.o bug for UXA crashes, but can't remember that i did that for a memoryleak bug...
[15:47] <Tonio_> hi there :)
[15:47]  * Daskreech waves
[15:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: we have to ping glatzor for bug 272410
[15:47] <a|wen> freeflying: worth checking...
[15:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: It happens quite often it seems
[15:47] <freeflying> a|wen: what?
[15:47] <a|wen> Tonio_: you're a core-dev?
[15:48] <Tonio_> a|wen: sure, why ?
[15:48] <a|wen> freeflying: sry ... still need to get used to the quassel autocompletion ... meant freinhard
[15:48] <a|wen> Tonio_: some k3b fun, bug 339163
[15:48] <Daskreech> Yeah I don't like it either
[15:49] <Daskreech> konversation still has the nicest autocomplete in my view
[15:49] <Tonio_> a|wen: for k3b3 ?
[15:49] <a|wen> Tonio_: jup ... or are we going to replace it?
[15:49] <freeflying> allee: hehe
[15:49] <Tonio_> freeflying: I'd like to, but it sounds a bit late for this... Riddell ? ^^
[15:50] <Tonio_> freeflying: it works well for me, but still receives lots of commits everyday, so the app may not be considered finished...
[15:50] <Tonio_> a|wen: that was for you sorry
[15:50]  * a|wen thinks everyone is name confused today :)
[15:50] <Tonio_> a|wen: an SRU is probably better, once the kde4 k3b is considered stable...
[15:51] <a|wen> Tonio_: or at least a backport; we agree on that view ... then the upload is relevant :)
[15:52] <Tonio_> yup
[15:52] <Tonio_> about actions..... well we can add them, but that'll break the feature freeze, and also can fail to work, as the audiocd protocol of kde3 is not compatible with kde4
[15:53] <Tonio_> a|wen: I prefer not to try to bind a kde3 ioslaves to kde4 actions...
[15:53] <maco> woohoo! kwin stopped lying to me!
[15:53] <Riddell> Tonio_: no, we should e-mail glatzor about that and the no dist-upgrade issue
[15:53] <Daskreech> lie to me kwin lie to me!
[15:54] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: also we need to address KPackageKit not doing debconf at all, and making java installs fail
[15:54] <Riddell> Tonio_: that k3b patch looks good (without having tested it)
[15:54] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: well that's a much larger issue and we knew it would be a problem
[15:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: I can upload sure... Looking at the patch in details now...
[15:55] <JontheEchidna> ah, ok
[15:55] <a|wen> Tonio_: it simply fires up k3b ... but of course if k3b kde3 version is broken in that sense, we shouldn't
[15:55] <JontheEchidna> Other than search, KPackageKit seems to be inferior to Adept in every way :(
[15:55] <maco> Daskreech: if i told it to enable desktop effects, it would do so, then claim it couldn't, then disable them
[15:55] <Tonio_> a|wen: right, it won't use an ioslave as a URL... looks sane then
[15:56] <Tonio_> a|wen: uploading :)
[15:56] <maco> its now keeping them enabled since it obviously *can* do them
[15:56] <Daskreech> maco: maybe after years of being in the background it now wants attention?
[15:56] <Tonio_> a|wen: your debdiff is for kde4 ?
[15:57] <a|wen> Tonio_: no, for kde3
[15:57] <a|wen> Tonio_: but somebody messed up the versioning :P
[15:57] <Tonio_> a|wen: ho yeah "really kde3".... what a mess....
[15:58] <Tonio_> a|wen: I think I'm the responsible, since I uploaded the kde4 version in the archives instead of my ppa :)
[15:58] <Tonio_> hehe
[15:58] <a|wen> Tonio_: exactly, that was what the ":P" was for
[15:58] <Tonio_> a|wen: did trueg respond to you ? since kde4 is only on my ppa, we can wait for upstream to include it
[15:59] <a|wen> Tonio_: already included ... they got the same idea in parrallel with us it seems
[15:59] <Tonio_> a|wen: oki ;)
[16:08] <a|wen> Tonio_: jup, ripping does work in k3b kde3 :)
[16:12] <seele> how is ntp configured in kubuntu? it's a global system setting and not controlled by the kde module, correct?
[16:12] <Riddell> yes /etc/default/ntpdate
[16:15] <seele> it would be nice if the kde module could know what was ocnfigured there.. it is confusing if ntp is enabled but the option isnt checked
[16:15] <seele> jsut because kde isnt managing it
[16:15] <seele> WindowsUninstall is working on the configu ui at the moment
[16:15] <stefanlsd> Riddell: Im trying to fix a FTBFS problem with lastfm thats related to qt. Our bug is here,    https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tripod/+bug/337862 and gentoo has a patch.    http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=182330.  The gentoo patch is a patch to the build generated file, instead of the .ui file. Do you have any ideas?
[16:18] <Daskreech> moin jjesse
[16:18] <Riddell> stefanlsd: use whichever works :)
[16:19] <jjesse> moin
[16:19] <Daskreech> jjesse: sent you mail
[16:19] <Riddell> seele: I'm afraid I don't know the details of what the kde module changes and how that works (or not) with our ntp setup
[16:20] <Daskreech> Why would KDE need a different Time protocol setup ?
[16:20] <Daskreech> when you are logged into KDE you are in a different time zone than if you are not?
[16:20] <stefanlsd> Riddell: heh. im feeling like im at that point, although im not actually sure how you jump in there and modify stuff in the build directory (its qmake) and funny kde stuff :P
[16:21] <seele> Daskreech: it's a UI for the option rather than someone editing /etc/default/ntupdate
[16:21] <seele> although i dont know what it actually configures when you check it
[16:21] <Riddell> stefanlsd: in the first instance you can just apply the patch then build the package (with debuild) to check it works
[16:21] <Daskreech> ah but it doesn't know if ntpdate has been changed?
[16:21] <Daskreech> that's kinda bad
[16:21] <Riddell> stefanlsd: then you add the patch to the packages patch system which usually means putting it in debian/patches
[16:22] <seele> Daskreech: i'm trying to find out what it actually does
[16:22] <seele> hmm.. my developer ran away
[16:23] <Daskreech> seele: tried ignoring ntpdate and configuring everythign in KDE and see what it does?
[16:23] <seele> Daskreech: that's just guessing. WindowsUninstall is working on the module now and i'm trying to work out how to fix it
[16:23] <seele> he can look at the code and say "it does this when you check the box"
[16:24] <Daskreech> :-D
[16:24] <Daskreech> as long as he doesn't runaway
[16:25] <stefanlsd> Riddell: I guess im trying to understand the rules of a qmake system.  Normally i would be running ./configure and make somewhere, and i'll patch just after configure. In this case, i need to patch a .h file that is generated from a .ui file after running uic. So im not sure where in the rules I would do that...  http://paste.ubuntu.com/140780/  (rules file)
[16:26] <seele> what is in /etc/default/ntupdate? I dont seem to have one
[16:27] <Riddell> /etc/default/ntpupdate
[16:27] <Daskreech> p is important
[16:27] <Riddell> no
[16:27] <Riddell> /etc/default/ntpdate
[16:28] <seele> oh duh.. thanks
[16:33] <seele> hum.. that doesnt seem to be the place you turn ntp on and off though
[16:37] <Riddell> seele: that file also mentions /etc/ntp.conf, which doesn't exist
[16:39] <Riddell> mm, not sure what actually runs it though, can't see it in /etc/init.d/*
[16:40] <Riddell> seele: probably keybuk would know what actually happens
[16:40] <a|wen> seele / Riddell: as long as ntpdate-debian is installed it will run ntpdate using the options in /etc/default/ntpdate
[16:41] <Riddell> a|wen: and what runs that?
[16:41] <a|wen> i'm pretty sure it is added as an if-up.d rule, but let me check
[16:42] <a|wen> sorry, the package is actually called ntpdate ... ntpdate-debian is the name of the executable
[16:43] <Riddell> oh aye /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate
[16:43] <a|wen> jup
[16:43] <Riddell> and ntpdate-debian is a shell script to read in /etc/default/ntpdate and run ntpdate
[16:43] <a|wen> exactly
[16:44] <a|wen> Riddell: and the README.Debian of ntpdate says to install ntp if you have good network connection and need constant updates
[16:45] <Daskreech> jjesse: is the book intended for 9.04 or 8.04 ?
[16:56] <blizzz> konqui drives me crazy :(
[17:01]  * Daskreech plays some Fine Young Cannibals
[17:02] <jjesse> Daskreech: intended for 9.04 and yes i got your email
[17:02] <Daskreech> ah ok there are some places it speaks of 8.04 when I'm sure you mean 9.04 and some places where yuo say 9.04 where it sounds remarkably like 8.04 :-)
[17:06] <seele> a|wen: how do you disable it? remove the ntpdate file?
[17:07] <seele> a|wen: or does it simply run regardless if it is installed?
[17:07] <WindowsUninstall> hi *
[17:08]  * Daskreech dogpiles on WindowsUninstall
[17:08] <a|wen> seele: you mean, if you want it not to run at all, but still have the option to run it manually?
[17:08] <seele> a|wen: have the option to turn on and off the service
[17:09]  * Daskreech tries to think of a scenario not involving mushrooms where he doesn't want to know what time the rest of the world is in
[17:10] <a|wen> seele: if you remove the file /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate it will not run ... to turn it on you need to check that the package ntpdate is installed and that the /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate file is there again
[17:11] <Riddell> that doesn't sound great for coding a configuration tool
[17:11] <seele> yeah really
[17:11] <a|wen> my 5 grain of salt ... don't meddle with it
[17:12] <a|wen> seele: ntpdate is installed with priority important
[17:13] <WindowsUninstall> Riddell, uhm, anyway I don' think that hard coding configuration related things is a good idea
[17:13] <Riddell> WindowsUninstall: how else would it work?
[17:13] <WindowsUninstall> I think that we should have something like "configure-tool set ntp enable"
[17:14] <WindowsUninstall> so every distribution can put its own code in that tool
[17:14] <Riddell> could be part of the network-manager dbus API
[17:14] <Riddell> WindowsUninstall: did you work out what KDE tries to do at the moment?  have you looked at what gnome does, if anything?
[17:15]  * a|wen votes for removing that configuration options altogether
[17:15] <seele> Riddell: it runs ntpdate once and then forgets about it
[17:15] <seele> so it is more like a function button than service option
[17:16] <WindowsUninstall> Riddell, KDE now calls rdate or ntp
[17:17] <seele> if left as is, the checkbox needs to be removed because it isnt doing what the UI implies
[17:18] <WindowsUninstall> anyway that module may need to be updated
[17:18] <WindowsUninstall> it is 11 years old
[17:18] <WindowsUninstall> so we can improve it
[17:18] <WindowsUninstall> Riddell, I can't understand why it should be part of the network manager API
[17:21] <Riddell> WindowsUninstall: just a suggestion.  at the moment in ubuntu we have ntp run when the network interface is enabled so it could be done there
[17:21] <Riddell> WindowsUninstall: and to get distros to standardise on some sort of interface, n-m may be the best chance
[17:22] <WindowsUninstall> Riddell, honestly I don't love nm
[17:22] <WindowsUninstall> I've seen wicd working better than nm in some cases :P
[17:22] <Riddell> nobody does but it's what the distros use and offers a standard interface for desktop apps
[17:24] <WindowsUninstall> Riddell, we should try to introduce a generic tool that allows KDE/GNOME to tell distro what users want
[17:24] <WindowsUninstall> if we implement something  like config-tool
[17:24] <WindowsUninstall> every distro can implement it's own config-tool
[17:24] <WindowsUninstall> and that can be a good idea, I think
[17:25] <a|wen> isn't it kind of a left-over function from when you needed ntp run as a daemon to get things done ... it looks like most distros simply just updates the clock as a service out-of-the box
[17:32] <Riddell> WindowsUninstall: it's a good idea but I suspect you'll have trouble getting distros to actually do that
[17:32] <Riddell> which is why I suggest n-m since distros go out of their way to work with that anyway
[17:32] <WindowsUninstall> Riddell, give me a chance to talk with debian/gentoo/arch/mandriva people
[17:33] <Daskreech> fedora
[17:33] <seele> suse..
[17:33] <Riddell> suse
[17:33] <WindowsUninstall> do you know any fedora guy?
[17:33] <WindowsUninstall> any suse, guy?
[17:33] <Daskreech> Jimbo's fantastic distro 2009 edition
[17:33] <Riddell> well in KDE land, rdieter for fedora, wstephenson for suse
[17:34] <Riddell> but this goes beyond KDE land
[17:35] <WindowsUninstall> ok
[17:38] <seele> so what is the stop gap solution? remove the option from the kcm?
[17:38] <seele> because it really makes no sense at all
[17:39] <WindowsUninstall> seele, right now it's still good for lazy people
[17:39] <seele> WindowsUninstall: how? it doesn't do what it implies
[17:39] <seele> it doesnt control the service, it simply runs ntp once and that's it
[17:40] <WindowsUninstall> yes, in the worst case we can replace it with a
[17:40] <seele> if it stays, then it needs to be changed to a function button, because that is what it does
[17:40] <WindowsUninstall> "Update Date&Time" button
[17:40] <seele> ok
[17:41] <josh-l> hi
[17:44] <Daskreech> hi
[17:52] <nixternal><PHONE_NUMBER>2222222222/wi18
[17:52] <nixternal> nice
[17:52]  * WindowsUninstall goes away for a couple of hours
[17:52] <nixternal> haha, nice nick ;)
[17:54] <Daskreech> Thanks
[17:55] <WindowsUninstall> anyway there is a small bug with the installer: rome is in a wrong timezone
[17:55] <WindowsUninstall> :P
[18:31] <josh-l> anyone use stasks for your panel? what do you think about expanding option? I like it, but wish it was somehow more intuitive... its a bit of a pain to get to windows when they expand
[18:35] <Daskreech> josh-l: slightly better question for #kde
[18:35] <Daskreech> not even sure if stasks is in the repo
[18:35] <josh-l> Daskreech: its not in comon repos, but there are repos with it
[18:35] <Daskreech> ok
[18:41] <ScottK> If it's not in our repo, it's pretty definitely off topic here.
[18:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: I saw your mail to glatzor, thanks for this (I would have send it toonight....)
[18:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: there is another one I'm testing right now about sun java and the licence agreement
[19:33] <josh-l> hey all
[19:33] <josh-l> anyone know where plasma widget files are located?
[19:38] <jrdnyquist> coooool: The NVIDIA 180.44 Linux driver officially adds support for several new graphics processors, fixes various OpenGL crashes (including the KDE 4.x Plasma problems)
[19:50] <smarter> hey, kpackagekit finally works here :]
[19:51] <blizzz> smarter: with licence   confirmations?
[19:51] <smarter> no idea
[19:54] <smarter> looks good, the error message when something 404 isn't necessary imho, or should be less scary at least :]
[19:56] <blizzz> i read a blog post once about funny error messages
[19:56] <smarter> and it'd be nice if it displayed download speed when downloading the package
[19:56] <smarter> oh, said something about being too slow and needing to fork
[19:56] <blizzz> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001238.html
[20:03] <WindowsUninstall> Riddell, http://system-tools-backends.freedesktop.org/
[20:10] <josh-l> anyone know why kompozer doesnt work ?
[20:11] <jussi01> anyone know if the new nvidia has been packaged yet?
[20:14] <ScottK> kompozer is not a KDE app, but uses some ancient version of mozilla seamonkey.
[20:42] <blizzz> how can i set webkitpart as default view for internet browsing in konqueror?
[20:51] <blizzz> found it
[20:52] <Daskreech> where?
[20:58] <blizzz> launch 'keditfiletype text/html' and set webkit to top (in embedded tab). You need webkitkde to be installed
[21:00] <Daskreech> Right
[21:00] <Daskreech> nice
[21:01] <blizzz> i can scroll now ;)
[21:03] <smarter> anyone feeling like packaging arora last release? :)
[21:04] <JontheEchidna> ooh, a new arora release?
[21:06] <JontheEchidna> it seems very featureful though
[21:06] <JontheEchidna> an FFe is probably a given this time around ;-)
[21:06] <blizzz> does it use kwallet now?
[21:08] <JontheEchidna> not that I can see
[21:08] <JontheEchidna> from the changelog
[21:08] <vital> kwallet is under the wiki in TODO under Extensions
[21:08] <vital> so no.
[21:08] <Daskreech> wait
[21:09] <Daskreech> it has extenstions?
[21:09] <vital> http://code.google.com/p/arora/wiki/TODO
[21:09] <vital> scroll down a bit, and it say 'extensions' dont know if anything is implemented
[21:10] <smarter> Daskreech: it's being worked on
[21:10] <smarter> probably won't be ready in the near future
[21:11]  * smarter is currently working on Arora KDE4 integration, and a few other stuff too, like konqueror-like searchengine keyword shortcut :)
[21:16] <Lure> Riddell: new language-support-translations-en tries to pull in bunch of gnome - is this known problem?
[21:17] <Lure> Riddell: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/140965/
[21:18] <Lure> Riddell: btw, thanks for digikam uploads
[22:27] <yuriy> got my sponsorship invitation to UDS :)
[22:32] <a|wen> cool yuriy
[22:32] <blizzz> yuriy: congrats!
[22:32] <blizzz> my rss icon/plugin in konqueror has vanished! :(
[22:33] <smarter> blizzz: install konqueror-plugin-akregator
[22:33] <smarter> which is not installed by default for some reasons
[22:33] <blizzz> smarter: is installed, i reinstalled it, too, with no effect
[22:33] <smarter> blizzz: make sure it's checked in the extension list?
[22:34] <smarter> (configure menu --> configure extensions...)
[22:34] <blizzz> it is not any longer in the list. some other plugins disappeared, too
[22:34] <smarter> O_o
[22:34] <blizzz> exactly
[22:36]  * ryanakca highfives yuriy, hope I'll see you there :)
[22:37] <yuriy> oh, are you going?
[22:38] <ryanakca> yuriy: I'm in the process of convincing my parents to let me go
[22:38] <blizzz> smarter: oho, it is bound to khtml
[22:38] <smarter> ryanakca: heh :p
[22:38]  * smarter would go if he didn't have school at the same time, like for every other UDS :/
[22:40]  * a|wen is really sad he can't go ... relocating from asia to europe at the same time doesn't really fit :/
[22:58] <blizzz> is it known, that x.org claims 90% cpu when a password dialog appears?
[23:11] <blizzz> JontheEchidna: ping
[23:11] <JontheEchidna> blizzz: pong
[23:12] <blizzz> JontheEchidna: bug 277011 has not have something to do with x.org, did it?
[23:12] <JontheEchidna> dunno
[23:13] <JontheEchidna> upstream said it was fixed, but they don't know how it was fixed
[23:13] <blizzz> cool ;) i have something similar, but x.org consumes the cpu (and not kwalletd) and it is on all password kdialogs
[23:14] <blizzz> i also found a bug on kde.org, but i am wondering if they have something in common
[23:33] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: could you sponsor bug 281138 please?
[23:45] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: ok
[23:53] <JontheEchidna> QuickAccess upstream seems to be dead, I am contemplating forking the codebase and releasing a culmination of bugfixes that have made their way into Kubuntu
[23:53] <vorian> do it
[23:53] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: where is it hosted upstream?
[23:54] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: up;loaded
[23:54] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: thanks
[23:54] <JontheEchidna> Seems to be only hosted here: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/QuickAccess?content=84128
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> I could release a 0.7.2 and we could update to that and remove all of our patches
[23:57] <JontheEchidna> I could also add tooltip support, but that would pretty much be impossible to add to our packages now due to *freeze
[23:58] <JontheEchidna> whoa, neat: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Plasmaboard?content=101822
[23:58] <smarter> JontheEchidna: oh woh oh
[23:59] <JontheEchidna> heh, I thought you might be interested ;-)
[23:59]  * smarter has to look at that :p
[23:59] <astromme> What's the license for QuickAccess?
[23:59] <astromme> You could always host it in kde svn, or in launchpad


[01:41] <plm> just a curious: is possible to have a static ip in a interface eth0 and add a alias eth0:0 where eth0:0 is DHCP?
[06:00] <lordievader> Good morning.
[06:56] <JernejL_Work> hi everyone
[06:56] <JernejL_Work> what version of iptables is in latest distro?
[06:57] <JernejL_Work> actually, in 12.04
[06:58] <JernejL_Work> no matter how much i try, i can't get iprables wuth u32 to work to match packets.
[06:59] <JernejL_Work> it is in cat /proc/net/ip_tables_matches
[06:59] <JernejL_Work> but it fails to function
[06:59] <JernejL_Work> it won't even log
[09:58] <LeMike> hello. Apache tells me "client denied by server configuration" over and over again but I hardly don't know what is wrong. I checked if the folder is accessible. Apache runs as myuser:mygroup but still naggs me: https://gist.github.com/sourcerer-mike/35e5ed3e0b6eaec71b67
[10:05] <tinoco> back
[10:08] <jpds> LeMike: https://wiki.apache.org/httpd/ClientDeniedByServerConfiguration
[10:08] <jpds> LeMike: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10351167/apache-client-denied-by-server-configuration
[10:22] <LeMike> The deny rule blocks everyone no matter in which order. What the heck? o,O Thanks jpds
[10:32] <hxm> how to create a text file from clipboard?
[10:33] <hxm> without pasting it to a text editor
[10:35] <LeMike> Try `xsel --clipboard > foo.txt`
[11:08] <phaidros> how does one restart networking via cli in ubuntu server 14.04?
[11:08] <phaidros> init.d/script restart doesn't work, as well as service networking restart ..
[11:08] <phaidros> :/
[11:10] <ogra_> ifdown/ifup ...
[11:11] <ogra_> (never ever use the init script ... thats wrong)
[11:14] <pds|2> hi guys, i'm wondering if there is a way to power on lan devices when normal power is lost but the ups still has some juice left
[11:15] <jpds> pds|2: sudo ifdown -a; sudo ifup -a
[11:15] <ogra_> ++
[11:15] <pds|2> that would bring don't the network and reup it again
[11:16] <ogra_> right
[11:16] <jpds> pds|2: Err, sorry that was for phaidros.
[11:16] <ikonia> if the power has gone but you still have UPS the box will still be running as it was before
[11:16] <ikonia> so why wouuld you need to do anything ? the box will not see the power drop
[11:16] <pds|2> let me rething me question for a while :)
[11:17] <pds|2> rethink *
[11:18] <pds|2> if a certain device is hooked up with poe (power over ethernet) that comes through a switch, and i want to power on lan it when needed, i was wondering if i can pull the juice out of the ups
[11:18] <phaidros> ogra_: why is the init script still there if it is for no use?
[11:19] <phaidros> jpds: that works.
[11:19] <ogra_> phaidros, it is of use ... it was never intended for enduser usage ...
[11:19] <ogra_> other upstart jobs depends on the signales it sends etc ...
[11:19] <ogra_> *depend
[11:19] <phaidros> ogra_: I used it since ages in debian/ubuntu and it always worked brilliant :D
[11:20] <ogra_> phaidros, calling that upstart job is like if you would remove and re-add the engine of your car every time you want to switch gears
[11:20] <phaidros> as well as: "service networking restart" is not inteneded for direct use?
[11:21] <ogra_> it tears down way more than you want ... on desktops it will kill the UI session because it kills dbus
[11:21] <phaidros> ogra_: ic, so what is the correct short command to re-read network/interfaces? "sudo ifdown -a; sudo ifup -a" ?? nearly as intuitive as the initscript, or just "restart networking INTERFACE=eth0" ..
[11:22] <ogra_> sudo ifdown -a; sudo ifup -a
[11:23] <phaidros> ogra_: ok, thanks. but do you want to elaborate on the difference between ifdown/ifup and "service networking .." a bit more?
[11:24] <phaidros> as well as: all the forums and everywhere in the web, the initscript or service command is recommended to do the job .. how can documentation fail that big time :D
[11:24] <ogra_> phaidros, i did above ... killing the networking service will kill a lot more ... dbus, firewall setups etc
[11:25] <ogra_> phaidros, nobody noticed it ...
[11:25] <phaidros> hrhr
[11:25] <phaidros> ogra_: just to clearify: initscript and service command trigger the same chain of killing? (dbus, firewall ..) or is there a difference between those as well?
[11:26] <ogra_> there are no "initscripts" in ubuntu ... its an upstart job ... and yes, it is idnetical
[11:28] <phaidros> ogra_: thanks
[11:29] <phaidros> so, I learned something very basic after ~15yrs of debian and later ubuntu .. lol
[11:29] <ogra_> heh :)
[11:29] <phaidros> *shrug*
[11:30] <ogra_> i think there are a few askubuntu entries where it was actually corrected ...
[11:30] <ogra_> sadly nobody picked up correcting the wiki
[11:30] <phaidros> after how many years?! :D
[11:30] <ogra_> (which might be quite some effort given the many entries with the wrong info)
[11:31] <ogra_> it was only noticeed bceaus people were wondering why their desktops crashed when following online instructions btw
[11:31] <ogra_> *because
[11:31] <phaidros> but then I have another basic one: how to deal with /etc/resolv.conf nowadays? it seems resolvconf is installed automatically, and it is not recommended to edit the /etc/resolv.conf file directly. two variants: remove resolvconf package, edit by hand. or, insert nameserver entry in /etc/network/interfaces? (I always did the first unti lnow :D
[11:32] <ogra_> man resolvconf
[11:32] <ogra_> ;)
[11:32] <phaidros> grrr
[11:32] <phaidros> :D
[11:33] <ogra_> there are snippet files you can add bits to ... and resolvconf can also be managed via /etc/network/interfaces enatries ... (man interfaces ;) )
[11:33] <phaidros> yaya, reading already :D
[11:35] <phaidros> I've got to confess, there went alot of magic into the interfaces config file over the time :)
[11:36] <phaidros> how much of that is debian/ubuntu specific versus lsb conform?
[11:36] <ogra_> yup ... and the switch to systemd will make it all obsolete one day
[11:36] <ogra_> /etc/network/interfaces is a debianism i think
[11:36] <ogra_> (someone correct me though ... i'm not 100% sure )
[11:37] <phaidros> ogra_: systemd it will be definitely?
[11:38] <phaidros> .. why always Lennart's stuff .. :D
[11:38] <ogra_> debian already switched ... and ubuntu doesnt have the resources to patch each and every init job in the archive ... so we have to follow suit and use debians default
[11:38] <phaidros> ah, jessie has is default then. ooh, I expect upgrade hell :D
[12:01] <ktosiek> ogra_: it is, RHEL has something in /etc/sysconf.d or whatever it's called
[12:01] <ogra_> right
[12:01] <ktosiek> phaidros: because Lennart is good at selling his stuff (and at least decent at designing it ;-))
[12:04] <abhishek__> suggest me some good books on SAN
[13:01] <sync0pate> Right.. I have a really weird SSL problem..
[13:02] <sync0pate> I have purchased an SSL certificate for the www subdomain, and set it up in apache
[13:02] <sync0pate> I can connect fine to the www subdomain without SSL
[13:02] <sync0pate> and I can connect to other subdomains via SSL - but they give me a warning that the certificate is correct
[13:02] <sync0pate> but when I try to connect to the www subdomain with ssl.. it just times out
[13:02] <sync0pate> any idea?
[13:05] <sync0pate> Oh.. never mind.. it's bizarrely started working.
[13:45] <hallyn> jdstrand: what upgrades were your vm's doing when they got corrupted?  p->t, t->u, or just a dist-upgrade?
[13:56] <jdstrand> hallyn: just -updates dist-upgrades. lucid-> lucid. precise->precise. trusty->trusty
[16:12] <tinoco> back
[16:14] <eagles0513875> hey guys i want to access a site on my server which at the moment doesnt have a domain name associated with it just yet to test out the functionality of the site as this came from another hosting provider im using one of my domains which points to the server and doing ~ to get a listing but it is not working any ideas what im doing wrong? she the domain not be associated with a vhost already?
[16:17] <eagles0513875> anyone around?
[16:19] <SCHAAP137> eagles0513875, use the IP-address
[16:19] <eagles0513875> SCHAAP137: the problem is rdns is set and i get taken back to my website that i have for that domain
[16:21] <SCHAAP137> domain should be irrelevant when u connect on the IP-address
[16:21] <eagles0513875> ok
[16:21] <eagles0513875> let me try in a private browser window
[16:22] <eagles0513875> still end up at the website instead
[16:22] <SCHAAP137> run the server on a different port?
[16:23] <eagles0513875> cant as i have a bunch of other sites running on it as well
[16:24] <SCHAAP137> ah ,ok, then it makes sense
[16:24] <eagles0513875> meh i have another domain i can use for testing and i can quickly setup a vhost that isnt a problem
[19:47] <vmdsch1> I made the mistake of upgrading to Ubuntu 14.04.01 LTS ... only to find Canonical's vmbuilder is dysfunctional ... and gone!  So, I've scrambled all over looking for a replacement.  I'm thinking the best of the bunch just now is libguestfs project's virt-builder/virt-syspre/virt-install.  I sort of wish HashiCorp's (of Vagrant fame) packer (see http://packer.io) was about a year further along.  Bummer.  Does anyone know of anything better?  It woul
[19:49] <SCHAAP137> u upgraded to 14.04 from which version?
[19:50] <SCHAAP137> vmdsch1, https://wiki.debian.org/VMBuilder
[19:50] <SCHAAP137> there is mention of a version u can grab from git
[19:51] <SCHAAP137> u could try building that one
[20:53] <jeffreylevesque> when I open a basic python script in a browser (i have ubuntu-server with Gnome GUI) it doesn't serve the page, instead it pops up a dialog asking if i want to open the python script
[20:54] <PryMar56> jeffreylevesque, does the script write CGI headers?
[20:55] <jeffreylevesque> how do i check?
[20:55] <jeffreylevesque> all i have is #!/usr/bin/python
[20:55] <jeffreylevesque> then print ('hi')
[20:56] <PryMar56> something like : print "Content-type:text/html\n\n";
[20:56] <PryMar56> as seen in a perl CGI
[20:57] <jeffreylevesque> should i have is #!/usr/bin/python?
[20:57] <PryMar56> jeffreylevesque, yes - she-bang line is needed
[20:57] <jeffreylevesque> if i goto the browser and try to visit the page, it doesn't render in the browser.  Instead, i get a popup "You have chosen to open: logic_loader.py'
[20:58] <jeffreylevesque> then it prompts me to 'open with', or 'save file'
[20:58] <PryMar56> jeffreylevesque, executing a *.py is one thing, you might want *.py to render as text if there are no headers printed
[21:00] <PryMar56> jeffreylevesque, if you are in apache2? follow the pattern seen for *.php, *.cgi, *.pl in the /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/
[21:00] <jeffreylevesque> how do i get it to render the text, rather than popup
[21:00] <genii> Are you opening it with something like file:// url or http://localhost  url
[21:00] <jeffreylevesque> yes sir
[21:00] <jeffreylevesque> i have localhost
[21:01] <jeffreylevesque> i am opening like '/machine-learning/python/logic_loader.py'
[21:01] <jeffreylevesque> i am using LAMP in my ubuntu server 14.04
[21:01] <jeffreylevesque> so apache2
[21:03] <jeffreylevesque> initially i was trying <form action='/machine-learning/python/logic_loader.py' method='get'>
[22:01] <zermanno> Hi, is it possible to install ubuntu server from the desktop version into a secondary hard drive? The idea is to then move the hd from the desktop to the server and boot it.
[22:03] <arrrghhh> zermanno, why not just install the server edition in the server?
[22:03] <arrrghhh> or install the server edition on the 2nd hdd and move the 2nd hdd to the server...  I'm not sure how or why the desktop version would be involved at all
[22:04] <zermanno> arrrghhh, the server machine has not monitor nor keyboard, it is not in a place where it is easy to plug both or move the server. The only easy and simple thing that i can do is plugging hard drives
[22:05] <zermanno> arrrghhh, if i can avoid moving all the stuff the better
[22:05] <arrrghhh> zermanno, ya I would just install server edition fresh to the hdd going into the server, and before booting it move it to the server.  should be fine...
[22:05] <arrrghhh> Although I've never attempted that, I think it should work.  May need to do some trickery with the networking, but hopefully not much...
[22:06] <sarnold> zermanno: any ILO or other similar remote console tools available?
[22:06] <zermanno> sarnold, no:(
[22:07] <zermanno> arrrghhh, i thought about that but i am curious if i can install ubuntu on a hd without booting the install drive, i mean from the ubuntu dekstop, without rebooting
[22:08] <arrrghhh> hmm uuid's may change as well so fstab will probably need tweaking
[22:08] <arrrghhh> zermanno, sounds like you're trying to make it even more complicated than it already is lol
[22:08] <zermanno> arrrghhh, yeah but ...why not?
[22:09] <zermanno> arrrghhh, the uuid is machine dependent?
[22:09] <arrrghhh> why make it more complicated than it needs to be?
[22:09] <arrrghhh> is this the Italian way?  :P
[22:09] <arrrghhh> no but the uuid may change... I'm just trying to think of what could blow up with your moving hdd idea
[22:10] <zermanno> arrrghhh, ahaha no, but, given is not a priority work i was looking to learn something
[22:10] <zermanno> spend some times now to easy some future similar stuff
[22:10] <arrrghhh> zermanno, ah I see.  Well, I will bow out and see if someone else has any suggestions.  I've never tried to do such a thing tho.
[22:10] <sarnold> zermanno: debootstrap may get you there
[22:11] <zermanno> i read some old stuff about installing debian this way using debootstrap
[22:11] <sarnold> zermanno: using kvm with a raw disk may get you there
[22:11] <zermanno> sarnold, i didn't think about that, ill try thanks
[22:14] <qman__> You can simply install to a drive, then install it in the server; to make the NIC be eth0 and work out of the box, rm /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules before booting on new hardware
[22:14] <qman__> The uuids that matter are those of the filesystems and won't change
[22:15] <zermanno> qman, thanks


[00:01] <nhaines> I'll get around to updating mine eventually.
[00:02] <grantbow-droid> Welcome orangezz to the channel :-)
[00:02] <orangezz> HEY Grant
[00:02] <grantbow-droid> Hey suzie
[00:03] <philipballew> why hello!
[00:05] <orangezz> Hey
[00:06] <grantbow-droid> andchat is useful
[00:08] <pleia2> anyone feel like testing lernid? :)
[00:09] <pleia2> we're doing a testing session over in #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat, just need to install the devel version (we can tell you how)
[00:09] <nhaines> pleia2: how long will it take?
[00:09] <pleia2> nhaines: as long as you can stick around for
[00:10] <pleia2> just test what you can, if you need to leave it's fine
[00:11] <nhaines> Not sure I can tonight.... but I thought since oneiric's becoming a little creaky, why not think about it? :)
[00:11] <pleia2> :)
[00:12] <nhaines> Tomorrow, with beta 1 being released, I'll probably do a reinstall.
[01:10] <pleia2> oh geez, beta is tomorrow, this week is officially too busy
[05:19] <sn9> On 2011-09-08, 7 days from now, your membership
[05:19] <sn9> in the Ubuntu California (ubuntu-california) Launchpad team
[05:19] <sn9> is due to expire.

[05:19] <sn9> If you want, you can renew this membership at

[05:19] <sn9> If your membership does expire, we'll send you one more message to let
[05:19] <sn9> you know it's happened.
[05:19] <sn9> Thanks for using Launchpad!
[05:34] <nhaines> sn9: been another year, eh?
[05:35] <sn9> apparently so
[05:36] <sn9> "Membership renewed until 2012-09-07."
[05:39] <aaditya> Is it a coincidence that our memberships are expiring at the same time?
[05:41] <aaditya> Membership renewed until 2012-09-07.
[06:43] <philipballew> this channel is much more dead at this hour
[06:43]  * philipballew is usually more free this time
[07:41] <bkerensa> :P
[07:41]  * bkerensa knows why he avoids state lug channels sometimes :P
[07:41] <bkerensa> they seem to hate Ubuntu :)
[16:15] <bkerensa> wow
[16:15] <bkerensa> I submitted a conf kit request yesterday and I'm pretty sure they just shipped it this morning because I got a e-mail from UPS saying Merchandise Mania shipped something... When I got my Ubuntu shirt from the UK it was from a similar name
[16:18] <nhaines> bkerensa: maybe you don't remember ordering one of their stylish new hats!
[16:19]  * nhaines waits impatiently for the oneiric Beta 1 announcement.
[16:19] <bkerensa> nhaines: ?
[16:19]  * bkerensa is confused
[16:19] <nhaines> bkerensa: beta 1 is the first milestone where a development image is produced for more widespread testing.
[16:20] <bkerensa> LOL
[16:20] <bkerensa> nhaines: I know what beta 1 is :P but what is this about a hat?
[16:20] <nhaines> :)
[16:20] <nhaines> bkerensa: you got a shipment confirmation from Merchandise Mania.
[16:21] <nhaines> Why wouldn't someone want one of these beauties? http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=878
[16:21] <bkerensa> nhaines: Yes but I did not order any hat..... or anything
[16:21] <bkerensa> =o
[16:21] <bkerensa> they are nice... I have said so in the paste but idk its to early for this :P
[16:22] <nhaines> I wish they're release oneiric shirts already so I could just put in my order now.  :P
[16:23] <nhaines> s/they're/they'd/
[16:25] <bkerensa> I wish they sold stuff in USD so I dont have to convert :)
[16:25] <nhaines> bkerensa: they do.  :)
[16:39] <bkerensa> nhaines: There is no way this is a hat :P it weighs 2.0KGS according to UPS so thats what four pounds?
[16:40] <nhaines> bkerensa: you never know!  Everything's pounds over there...
[16:40] <pleia2> bkerensa: the "currency to view" dropbox is at the bottom of the page in the shop
[16:40] <pleia2> (it used to be more obvious)
[16:42] <bkerensa> oh =o thanks so much.... A week ago I was looking at stuff and didnt wanna calculate prices and then shipping to USD
[16:42] <bkerensa> :D
[16:42]  * bkerensa wishes they made bigger shirts =(
[16:43] <bkerensa> Only 3X they offer is the hoodie.... My natty shirt is a bit snug :P I had to do a bit of scretching
[16:45] <bkerensa> pleia2: Have you checked out Glitch yet?
[16:46] <pleia2> bkerensa: haven't even heard of it
[16:47] <nhaines> pleia2: have you checked out Mutter?
[16:47] <pleia2> you guys are just telling me random words
[16:48] <nhaines> haha
[16:48] <pleia2> :) no
[16:48] <nhaines> pleia2: it's on my list.  :)
[16:51] <bkerensa> glitch.com <--- SF Bay Area developed indy game pretty cool
[16:52] <pleia2> bkerensa: ah, not much of an on-computer gamer these days
[16:52] <bkerensa> =o oh
[16:52] <bkerensa> DnD type? :)
[16:53] <pleia2> consoles
[16:53] <bkerensa> nice!
[16:53]  * bkerensa got a 360 last year and I kind got burnt out I play like 3 hours a day of call of duty blackops =o
[16:54] <bkerensa> plus they keep releasing more maps which = more money gone :P
[16:55] <pleia2> I did go to D&D Experience back in 2008 but that was sorta my last hurrah as far as tabletop games go (and it was after I hadn't played in like 6 years)
[16:56] <nhaines> pleia2: I very successfully DMed a game this year (my first time! :D) with some friends and some kids.
[16:57] <nhaines> What's funny is it was the 9yo who was always doing wacky things and saving the day.  Not quite locked into the computer game "I can only interact with a couple things" box.
[16:58] <nhaines> I should probably start that up again because I spent $150 in books and tiles.  :P
[17:16]  * nhaines is eating bluefin sashimi right now.
[17:18] <bkerensa> :(
[17:18] <bkerensa> sushi
[17:19] <nhaines> My boss caught them yesterday!
[17:20] <pleia2> nhaines: heh, so easy to spend $150 on those books
[17:21] <akk> very fresh!
[17:22] <nhaines> pleia2: I wanted to support my local comic book stores but Amazon was so much cheaper that I basically spent what I would've on the core rulebook set and had enough over for three dungeon tile sets and a couple sets of dice.  :P
[17:22] <nhaines> (I did source the dice locally though.)
[17:23] <MarkDude> Dice are awesome
[17:24] <akk> Sometimes it's hard to support local stores. We were pretty surprised when a new *lawnmower* was way cheaper on amazon than locally (and free shipping!)
[17:24] <MarkDude> I mean I want a whole case of them
[17:24] <MarkDude> A few people bring theirs to Super Nerd Night
[17:35] <kdub_> i now understand why microsoft's products are the way they are... #msvisualstudio
[17:47] <nhaines> kdub_: why's that?
[17:57] <DarkwingDuck> nhaines, SCaLE is in Jan 2012... Did you want to do another Ubucon?
[18:20] <nhaines> DarkwingDuck: yes, I've been telling Gareth that since April.  :)
[18:21] <DarkwingDuck> nhaines, I'll make sure you get in... I volunteered to help this year.
[18:21] <DarkwingDuck> With SCaLE that is.
[18:22] <DarkwingDuck> This is my first bit, working on more graphics now. http://people.ubuntu.com/~david.wonderly/SCaLE10/scale_10x_banner_penguin.png
[18:24] <nhaines> DarkwingDuck: Gareth and Ilan pretty much assured me a place in SCaLE10X.  They've been nothing but extraordinary from the time Amber Graner approached us and even throughout last Ubucon on short notice.  :)
[18:24] <pleia2> nhaines: I met Ilan!
[18:24] <DarkwingDuck> Yup, Been talking to and working with Ilan online
[18:25] <nhaines> pleia2: Ilan is pretty awesome.  :)
[18:25] <pleia2> he was at the linux picnic, we went all sysadmin geekout
[18:25] <pleia2> I didn't realize who he was until later :)
[18:25] <nhaines> Haha.  :)
[18:25] <pleia2> (this is normal for me, I never know who I'm talking to)
[18:25] <nhaines> (me either, but what's worse is when they all seem to know you!)
[18:26] <pleia2> haha, yeah
[18:26] <nhaines> I'm actually recognized a lot, which baffles me a little but I guess it's a good thing.  :)
[18:26] <pleia2> he asked if I was going to speak at ubucon again
[18:26] <pleia2> wait, you know who I am? neato!
[18:27] <nhaines> haha!  :)  They know everyone and I have no idea how.
[18:27] <nhaines> I just preordered Artificial Heart from Jonathan Coulton.  And I mean I ordered the $100 superfan package.
[18:28] <nhaines> I also got an email with a digital download link with a HUGE album cover image, and then links for the album in 1) lossless AAC, FLAC, 329k MP3, VBR MP3, and Ogg Vorbis.
[18:28] <nhaines> Oh and a link to md5sums!  :D
[18:29] <pleia2> sweet
[18:30] <nhaines> I already have all of his music and mostly for free, so superfan pack seemed the right thing to do.
[18:30] <nhaines> Also now he's going to send me a USB flash drive with all his music.
[18:31]  * nhaines continues waiting patiently for Beta 1.
[18:31]  * pleia2 has xubuntu release announcement at the ready
[18:31] <pleia2> now? now? how about now?
[18:31]  * pleia2 waits
[18:50] <bkerensa> now
[19:29] <MarkDude> Coulton +1
[19:37] <bkerensa> Hmmm 99 cent store is selling Philips 22" flat screen for 99cents in Cali
[19:37] <bkerensa> damn
[19:45] <aaditya> Really?
[19:55] <DarkwingDuck> What?
[19:58] <DarkwingDuck> Yup. http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/408615
[20:00] <aaditya> Damn.
[20:00] <aaditya> wow.
[20:35] <kdub_> DarkwingDuck: /me is trying to think of a scale talk topic
[20:46] <nhaines> kdub_: SCaLE talk topic for you: global asynchronous kernel locks-friend or foe?
[21:04] <nhaines> Oneiric Ocelot Beta 1 was just released! \o/ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview/Beta1
[21:20] <nhaines> Server images seem to be missing this time around though...
[22:44] <akk> Hmm, the release notes mention xubuntu having the onboard keyboard in the menus now, but there's no mention of it for regular ubuntu.
[22:44] <akk> No joy for tablet users yet?
[22:47] <DarkwingDuck> I've used kubuntu on a tablet and it has an on-screen keyboard. I'm saving money for an EXOPC tablet
[22:48] <akk> I have a meego exopc, and you can't use it with a natty livecd without a keyboard attached. Didn't think to try kubuntu -- didn't know it was good for tablets!
[22:49] <DarkwingDuck> The Plasma netbook worked well on the 3 hybred tablets I've used.
[22:49] <DarkwingDuck> I need to get an exopc
[22:51] <akk> cool, I'll have to try plasma netbook some time.
[23:31] <nhaines> akk: It seems to have received a big shrug again this cycle.
[23:31] <nhaines> Although there was a bug or two they squashed.
[23:34] <akk> darn
[23:34] <nhaines> akk: yeah, disappointing.


[00:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cloud-init [source] (xenial-proposed) [17.1-46-g7acc9e68-0ubuntu1~16.04.1]
[02:02] <tsimonq2> Anyone know offhand how often Launchpad syncs its Debian archive mirror?
[06:06] <acheronuk> LocutusOfBorg: +1 as well. keep seeing test fails on armhf particularly which are just the device running out of space
[07:02] <slangasek> LocutusOfBorg, acheronuk: yeah, looks like, possibly during an upgrade, /var/lib/lxd stopped being pointed at the 72G disk and started being pointed at the 7.6G disk.  looking.
[07:33] <slangasek> LocutusOfBorg, acheronuk: fixed for <IP_ADDRESS> (the host listed in the libdata-perl-perl log).  If you see more of these going forward, please let me know
[07:37] <acheronuk> slangasek: thanks. quickly checking a couple of logs on the ones I saw, that seems to be the same host. but yes, I'll let you know if any more occur
[10:01] <cjwatson> tsimonq2: 25 4,10,16,22 * * *
[10:02] <LocutusOfBorg> thanks slangasek for being helpful once again!
[10:02] <cjwatson> tsimonq2: (UTC)
[10:02] <LocutusOfBorg> I'll keep you informed
[10:03] <LocutusOfBorg> slangasek, on a similar issue, in the last two days I saw some s390x strange failures with "can't acquire dpkg log"
[10:03] <LocutusOfBorg> an example is here<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:03] <LocutusOfBorg> maybe related?
[10:04] <LocutusOfBorg> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/bionic/update_excuses.html#ktextwidgets search for "/unknown" and you get 5 s390x failures
[10:06] <LocutusOfBorg> this happens also later in the autopkgtestsuite, so they don't fall into the "unknown state", but a general "failed" e.g<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:39] <acheronuk> if anyone is about, could kate4/4:4.14.3-4ubuntu2 be badtested please? that is not buildable any more and needs to be removed from bionic soon, but can only get that done once latest kde4libs that it's test fail will block gets into -release
[18:44] <slangasek> LocutusOfBorg: s390x failures are certainly not related to a misconfigured filesystem on one of the armhf host nodes, no.  We've noticed the dpkg lock problem, I'm currently unsure what is causing it but we need to make sure unattended-upgrades is disabled/removed from the autopkgtest cloud images; https://git.launchpad.net/autopkgtest-cloud tools/build-adt-image-all-clouds if someone wanted to
[18:45] <slangasek> dig into this
[19:21] <tsimonq2> Thanks cjwatson and slangasek :)
[22:07] <tsimonq2> cjwatson: Out of curiosity, what's the reasoning behind every 6 hours at those times?
[22:30] <slangasek> tsimonq2: Debian itself publishes every 6h (last I checked), I believe the times are selected to try to maximize the chances of Debian's publisher having completed first before LP tries to import
[22:31] <tsimonq2> slangasek: ohhh dinstall didn't even cross my mind?
[22:31] <tsimonq2> s/?//
[22:31] <tsimonq2> Makes sense.
[22:32] <tsimonq2> slangasek: Yep, #debian-ftp topic says "dinstall starts at 0152,0752,1352,1952 UTC"
[22:32] <tsimonq2> slangasek: That is quite a gap though, shouldn't dinstall not take that long?
[22:32]  * tsimonq2 doesn't really know
[22:37] <acheronuk> forget what I asked about kate4 for today. uploaded a possible fix
[22:40] <slangasek> tsimonq2: I don't know how long it normally takes; I guess the LP team have looked at this more closely than I have and the importer cronjob is empirically informed
[22:41] <tsimonq2> slangasek: Alright, interesting though :)
[23:26] <cjwatson> tsimonq2: dinstall takes a while, and then it needs to propagate to the appropriate mirror
[23:27] <tsimonq2> cjwatson: ah ok
[23:27] <cjwatson> tsimonq2: slangasek is correct that it's empirically informed; the last change to those times was in July of this year, when we moved it 20 minutes later because it was routinely overlapping Debian mirror pushes
[23:28] <tsimonq2> Gotha
[23:28] <tsimonq2> *gotcha
[23:32] <tsimonq2> Question about the autopkgtester test request formatting... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration/AutopkgtestInfrastructure#Test_request_format says that "all-proposed" just has to be a non-empty value, and from (albeit limited) testing it seems to only accept 1 and not a boolean
[23:32] <tsimonq2> What's up with that? :)
[23:32] <tsimonq2> Doesn't even accept 0 or 2, just 1
[23:34] <tsimonq2> If anything I'd at *least* expect it to take a boolean, even if it's redundantly called (like if false is passed)
[23:35] <slangasek> 0 and 1 are booleans, 'false' is text ;)
[23:36] <tsimonq2> (I've always seen booleans in the sense of "true" or "false" when programming, albeit I've only used them in a limited sense)
[23:36] <slangasek> I'd say the documentation should be updated.  I don't think it's worth changing the code to be permissive
[23:36] <tsimonq2> slangasek: But it doesn't accept 0, is that because it's redundant?
[23:37] <slangasek> if you're in a programming language that recognizes true and false as booleans, sure.  In url variables, anything goes
[23:37] <tsimonq2> (if that's the case, the message should probably explain that instead of just "invalid format")
[23:37] <tsimonq2> Ah, gotcha
[23:37] <tsimonq2> TIL
[23:37] <slangasek> I think it doesn't allow it because no one bothers trying to pass the extra variable when it's not explicitly needed
[23:39] <tsimonq2> Hm, ok
[23:39] <tsimonq2> slangasek: You plan on updating the documentation or should I?
[23:39] <slangasek> tsimonq2: feel free
[23:41] <tsimonq2> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration/AutopkgtestInfrastructure?action=diff&rev1=87&rev2=88
[23:42] <slangasek> lgtm
[23:42] <tsimonq2> cool
[23:51] <tsimonq2> slangasek: Do you use some sort of tool to queue tests, or do you just edit the URL?
[23:51] <tsimonq2> Because I'm thinking of hacking up a tool that I'll just put in ~/bin for myself but I don't know if there's already something...


[01:47] <MichaelTunnell> anyone?
[13:00] <bull> any luck making snap for this app ?? https://github.com/keshavbhatt/Deskie
[13:00] <bull> mhall119, any luck making snap for this app ?? https://github.com/keshavbhatt/Deskie  ???
[13:36] <niemeyer> MichaelTunnell: Not exactly sure of what you mean, but it does keep track records around for exactly what is being done, and also data and old snaps to make the rollback possible
[13:36] <niemeyer> bull: Someone would have to try.. :)
[13:37] <bull> niemeyer,  yeah i tried but app wont run after installing it
[13:42] <niemeyer> bull: Did you try installing with --devmode?
[13:42] <bull> yeah it failed with unexpected output
[13:43] <niemeyer> Ok, so it's indeed best for someone that knows more about the details of both the app and snaps to have a look
[13:55] <bull> niemeyer,  yes
[14:19] <ogra_> GRR ..
[14:19] <ogra_> Parts 'copy' and 'sqlite' have the following file paths in common
[14:19] <ogra_> which have different contents: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-
[14:19] <ogra_> gnu/libsqlite3.so.0.8.6
[14:19] <ogra_> yes you silly thing ... that is in fact the reason why i *have* an sqlite part ... i want to replace the existing lib and binary ...
[14:20]  * ogra_ shakes fist at snapcraft
[14:58] <niemeyer> ogra_: Just black list with stage: [-filepath]
[14:58] <ogra_> oh !
[14:58] <ogra_> niemeyer, thanks a lot !
[14:59] <niemeyer> ogra_: np
[15:37] <MichaelTunnell> niemeyer: I pretty much wanted to know if snaps still support incremental updates so that only what is needed is updated rather than the entire snap and if rollbacks are possible still. You answered the rollback thing so great but how about the incremental updates?
[15:47] <ogra_> hmpf
[15:47] <ogra_> Jul  3 17:46:41 styx kernel: [265956.819310] SQUASHFS error: xz decompression failed, data probably corrupt
[15:47] <ogra_> Jul  3 17:46:41 styx kernel: [265956.819315] SQUASHFS error: squashfs_read_data failed to read block 0x1e0ecd6
[15:47] <ogra_> Jul  3 17:46:41 styx kernel: [265956.825969] SQUASHFS error: xz decompression failed, data probably corrupt
[15:47] <ogra_> Jul  3 17:46:41 styx kernel: [265956.825974] SQUASHFS error: squashfs_read_data failed to read block 0x1e0ecd6
[15:47]  * ogra_ tries a reboot
[16:22] <niemeyer> @MichaelTunnell: Incremental updates are coming soon as well.. you'll hear about the feature after the term "deltas"
[16:22] <nothal> niemeyer: No such command!
[16:24] <pachulo> hi all! Was trying to create a MAME snap using the "make" plugin, but as it seems that there is no "install" target in the MAME Makefile it fails to build because the snapcraft make plugin tries to install it
[16:25] <pachulo> should an option be created to tell the make snapcraft plugin not to try to execute the "install" target?
[16:31] <MichaelTunnell> niemeyer: I am making a video explaining snappy and I just wanted to cover that if it is a definite planned feature
[17:00] <niemeyer> MichaelTunnell: Ah, yeah, definitely coming soon.. content sharing is also landing, btw.. should be available in the next couple of weeks
[17:01] <niemeyer> That is, one snap being able to explicitly offer files for other snaps to explicitly use
[18:38] <MichaelTunnell> niemeyer: interesting . . . so similar to shared libraries but shared snaps?
[18:39] <MichaelTunnell> niemeyer: would it be content/userdata shared between snaps or shared assets?
[20:55] <niemeyer> MichaelTunnell: Right, will be used to share libraries for sure, but the mechanism is generic for any sort of content
[20:55] <MichaelTunnell> niemeyer: nice thanks


 Thank you! I will upload this fix to my PPA, but we will still need Marius to upload it to Debian.
 @mariogrip @fredldotme Hi again!
 We have more problems:
 1. lomiri-ui-toolkit test failures:
 ```
 FAIL!  : tst_UCUnits::gridUnitEnvironmentVariable() Compared doubles are not the same (fuzzy compare)
    Actual   (units.gridUnit()): 8
    Expected (11.0)            : 11
    Loc: [tst_units.cpp(48)]```

 2. lomiri build failure:
 ```
 In file included from /<<PKGBUILDDIR>>/obj-powerpc64le-linux-gnu/tests/uqmlscene/uqmlscene_autogen/VNU7RW3YIC/moc_DebuggingController.cpp:10,
                  from /<<PKGBUILDDIR>>/obj-powerpc64le-linux-gnu/tests/uqmlscene/uqmlscene_autogen/mocs_compilation.cpp:2:
 /<<PKGBUILDDIR>>/obj-powerpc64le-linux-gnu/tests/uqmlscene/uqmlscene_autogen/VNU7RW3YIC/../../../../../src/DebuggingController.h:28:10: fatal error: lomiridbusobject.h: No such file or directory
    28 | #include "lomiridbusobject.h"
       |          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 compilation terminated.```

 All visible here: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/4982/+packages


[15:24] <esembee> @apw, \o
[15:24] <arighi> o/
[15:25] <juergh> esembee, no @ in IRC ;-)
[15:25] <mhcerri> o/
[15:25] <esembee> juergh, oh what do I remember
[15:25] <jsalisbury> o/
[15:25] <mhcerri> it doesn't hurt though :-)
[15:26] <mhcerri> my irc client actually completes nicknames when I type @
[15:26] <apw> dearly beloved we are gathered here today ... to review Joe Salisbury's appplication for kernel per-package upload rights
[15:26] <john-cabaj> \o, just observing
[15:27] <apw> jsalisbury, would you paste your application link and introduce yourself.
[15:28] <jsalisbury> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JosephSalisbury/KernelUploadRightsApplication#preview
[15:28] <jsalisbury> Hello, my name is Joe Salisbury.  I work on the kernel team and focus on the real-time kernel.
[15:29] <jsalisbury> I would like to gain upload rights for kernel specific package uploads.
[15:29] <xnox> heya
[15:29] <apw> Hi, sponsors ... your $0.02 ?
[15:30] <apw> arighi, lukenow etc ...
[15:31] <lukenow> Ive reviewed some of joseph's kernels and everything was prepared with care :) I believe that Joseph should be given upload rights
[15:31] <arighi> as I stated in my endorsement, I've been reviewing a significant amount of kernel packages prepared by jsalisbury and at this point I trust him 100%
[15:31] <arighi> hence my +1
[15:31] <klebers> I have reviewed a bunch of kernels from jsalisbury, they were all done with care and jsalisbury always acted on the feedback given, improving the process every iteraction. I believe he's ready to upload kernels on his own
[15:31] <lukenow> Joe* don't know why I said joseph. Also +1 from me
[15:32] <apw> i don't think rtg is here, but he has proxies his vote via me.
[15:32] <apw> does anyone have any questions for jsalisbury ?
[15:32] <xnox> i have a inverse feedback - i haven't had to undo any nasty things in his kernels yet. which is unusual, given the amount of cranks done.
[15:32] <apw> xnox, :)
[15:33] <apw> as sru/aa reviewer for a number of his uploads, what has reached me has been in order too.
[15:33] <apw> ok if there are no questions, lets call a formal vote.  could those on the team with voting rights cast them now
[15:33] <apw> +1
[15:33] <lukenow> +1
[15:33] <apw> +1 (proxy for rtg)
[15:33] <esembee> +1
[15:33] <cascardo> apw, +1 for Joe Salisbury's upload rights
[15:33] <imay> +1
[15:34] <klebers> +1
[15:34] <cascardo> +1
[15:34] <xnox> +1 (no idea if i am in the cabal eligible to cast votes or not)
[15:34] <apw> [xnox, you should be.]
[15:34]  * xnox ponders if we should be using the bot's startvote commands, but whatever
[15:34] <mhcerri> +1
[15:34] <rtg> +1
[15:35] <apw> Ok. that seems to be unianimous.  Joe your application is approved.  Welcome to the team.
[15:36] <jsalisbury> Thanks, everyone!
[15:36]  * apw is tasked with making the permissions changes and announcing same.
[15:36] <apw> thanks everyone!
[15:36] <apw> +1 (proxy for kamal)
[15:36] <lukenow> congrats :)
[15:36] <mhcerri> congrats, jsalisbury
[15:36] <arighi> congrats jsalisbury!
[15:37] <john-cabaj> Congratulations, jsalisbury!


[00:25] <kyrofa> I've been waiting for over ten minutes for a snap review to happen, and it's still saying "Task 034cf753-97ad-4d60-9ca6-a22efa70ef4a is waiting for execution"
[00:25] <kyrofa> Is something wrong?
[00:31] <kyrofa> Guess I'll have to try again Monday
[00:35] <hloeung> kyrofa: there's a huge build queue - https://launchpad.net/builders
[00:36] <hloeung> a full test rebuild was kicked off
[00:36] <hloeung> test rebuild of disco
[00:37] <kyrofa> hloeung, now it says it's waiting for a retry, so there seems to be a level of flakiness beyond a busy queue
[00:39] <hloeung> kyrofa: which snap is this?
[00:42] <hloeung> I don't think it's flakiness, but probably an issue with your snap so if you could point me at which, maybe I can find the build logs for it
[00:47] <wgrant> kyrofa: That sounds more like a #snapstore question?
[00:47] <wgrant> kyrofa: But regardless, we need to know details of the snap.
[01:05] <kyrofa> wgrant, didn't realize snapstore had a channel, I'll direct such queries there in the future
[01:06] <kyrofa> Hmm. That room seems to be lacking the folks I would expect :)
[01:06] <kyrofa> Anyway, looks like the retry finally succeeded
[01:10] <wgrant> kyrofa: It's an internal channel. #snappy if you want a public one.
[16:17] <acheronuk> cjwatson: are merge proposal for LP git broken?
[16:17] <acheronuk> all I get no matter what I try is "xyz is not mergeable into this repository"
[16:24] <acheronuk> oh. project namespace wrong
[16:26] <rbasak> acheronuk: that seems like a really common pitfall. Bug 1813778 will IMHO help.
[16:26] <ubot5`> bug 1813778 in Launchpad itself ""Personal" push URLs not displayed on code pages" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1813778


[06:47] <Kilos> hellooo africa
[06:48] <Kilos> very cold here, all outside water is iced up
[07:54] <coco1> Kilos:Hello, Hi @ll :-)
[07:55] <Kilos> hi coco1
[07:55] <Kilos> :)
[07:57] <coco1> We are @ #ubuntu-cm [ http://webchat.freenode.net/?randomnick=1&channels=ubuntu-cm&prompt=1 ] for the cmNOGlab1  ;-)
[07:59] <Kilos> hi abakamousa
[09:24] <Kilos> QA  coffee on
[09:24]  * QA puts the kettle on
[09:27] <Kilos> QA  large
[09:27] <QA> In a beer mug just for you Kilos
[09:28] <QA> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[09:28] <Kilos> QA  ty
[09:28] <QA> Only a pleasure Kilos


[00:32] <dtchen> SoftwareExplorer: GSt.
[00:52] <SoftwareExplorer> dtchen: Thanks. Do you know what package specifically? I'm trying to file a bug. If it helps you know what package, the bug only happens when I'm playing .spx files
[00:53] <dtchen> gst-plugins-good0.10 | 0.10.16-1ubuntu3 | http://us.archive.ubuntu.com karmic/main Sources
[00:57] <SoftwareExplorer> dtchen: thanks that helps a lot
[00:59] <dtchen> yw


[03:33] <daftykins> http://pastebin.com/edfMbpvS
[03:33] <daftykins> that's one broken perl
[03:35] <zmoylan-pi> or someone changed one tiny little thing :-)
[03:35] <daftykins> i supplied a .tar of the whole folder in the end, fixed it right up
[03:35] <daftykins> no idea what borked it
[03:36] <zmoylan-pi> walk into the building and say 'hands up who knows perl' the sod will raise their hand :-)
[03:40] <daftykins> ah now the truth comes out- it's installed to a flash drive
[03:40] <daftykins> *rolleyes*
[03:48] <daftykins> ah the sound of my fan oven since repairing it, i suspect i've gotta take it apart and do the fan + motor now! :(
[03:48] <daftykins> think i've found one online
[04:06] <daftykins> £64 =|
[04:56] <daftykins> wb
[04:57] <zmoylan-pi> just my routers 5am hari kari
[04:57] <daftykins> like clockwork is it? :)
[04:58] <zmoylan-pi> set it up and it seems to have eliminated my router problems
[07:18] <MooDoo> morning
[07:19] <diddledan> that was nice and quick
[08:12] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:12] <bashrc> good moaning
[08:14] <brobostigon> morning bashrc
[08:15] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:16] <brobostigon> morning davmor2
[08:28] <foobarry> is it possible to find which tab is killing firefox?
[08:28] <popey> morning
[08:28] <foobarry> i mean cuasing 100% cpu
[08:28] <popey> hahaha
[08:28] <popey> we had this conversation last night
[08:28] <popey> no
[08:28] <foobarry> :@
[08:29] <zmoylan-pi> shutdown tabs one by one till not 100% :-)
[08:29] <foobarry> thats my current approach
[08:30] <popey> or use chromium :)
[08:31] <foobarry> i switched because of chrome
[08:31] <zmoylan-pi> i use opera :-)
[08:32] <zmoylan-pi> and vivaldi the new opera spinoff
[08:33] <foobarry> theandroidsoul.com
[08:33] <foobarry> got it
[08:33] <foobarry> some phone rooting guide page
[08:33] <zmoylan-pi> who's rooting who? :-)
[08:35] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: kinky
[08:35] <foobarry> gven until 1 sep or i will root my phone and put cyanopgen on
[08:35] <foobarry> given up wiating for 5.1
[08:36] <foobarry> 5.0.2 is murdering my phone
[09:15] <diddledan> so. I watched ALL 20 episodes of halt-n-catch-fire over the course of the night
[09:16] <diddledan> yey for tv marathon
[09:17] <zmoylan-pi> i couldn't get through more than 10
[09:19] <shauno> diddledan: you're not right, you know that?
[09:19] <diddledan> shauno: you mean in my head?
[09:20] <diddledan> shauno: medication is supposed to fix that, though, I thought
[09:21] <diddledan> speaking of which. I guess I should pop some morning pills :-p
[09:21] <foobarry> thanks i forgot to pop my morning piull
[09:21] <diddledan> foobarry: druggy!
[09:23] <diddledan> so, I actually sent the antifraud guys at police.uk an email last night
[09:24] <popey> diddledan: first season was good, not tried second season
[09:24] <bashrc> did you claim to be from Nigeria?
[09:24] <diddledan> it was a twofold message: 1) fix yo shoot. 2) fraud!
[09:25] <zmoylan-pi> he claimed to be from ms and wanted to fix their computers
[09:26] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: yup. I even quoted RFC numbers at them :-p
[09:27] <zmoylan-pi> excellent... and hopefully emailed containy tiny core linux as a replacement :-)
[09:27] <diddledan> engrish?
[09:28] <zmoylan-pi> unawake hands pre brekkie
[09:39] <diddledan> I think my ex is outside with a chainsaw
[09:40]  * zmoylan-pi places bet on the ex...
[09:40] <diddledan> well, a few limbs might be lost, but I'm sure it'll end-up in steamy family-friendlies
[09:41] <diddledan> that's usually how these things go, right?
[09:41]  * zmoylan-pi rummages in cd collection for soundtracks to tarantino movies...
[09:43] <zmoylan-pi> i'm thinking reservoir dogs for some reason...
[09:45] <zmoylan-pi> right time to limp out to city centre...
[09:54] <diddledan> jeez, it's widdling it down outside
[09:55] <diddledan> I feel sorry for the chainsaw murd0rer
[10:01] <diddledan> so, umm. I accidentally ordered a 500GB SSD yesterday. it'll arrive sometime today
[10:01] <diddledan> seriously, pepsi high and no sleep is a bad combo
[10:44] <DJones>  Heh, just noticed a new "folder" appeared in my work office 365 email account called "clutter" with one email in it, best line in the email is "Clutter looks at what you've done in the past to determine the messages you're most likely to ignore." The only email in the folder is from MS explaining the clutter folder :)
[10:45] <popey> :)
[10:47] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:47] <czajkowski> how meta!
[10:47] <czajkowski> 2 more days to the bank holiday! whhoop whopp
[10:47] <czajkowski> Saturday http://www.taketheleadservices.co.uk/family-fun-day--dog-show.html
[10:47] <czajkowski> Monday Bletchley Park
[10:47] <czajkowski> cannot wait!
[10:48] <diddledan> bank holiday?!
[10:48] <diddledan> omg
[10:54]  * popey has booked the whole week off \o/
[10:54] <davmor2> popey: me too
[10:55]  * czajkowski needs to be in london on the Tuesday :(
[10:55] <czajkowski> September and October are shaping up to be a mental month
[10:56] <bigcalm> !rat
[10:56] <bigcalm> !oggcamp
[10:57] <bigcalm> Um
[10:57] <diddledan> that's soon!
[10:57] <diddledan> :-p
[10:58] <davmor2> 2011 wow we have to build a time machine to see it
[10:58] <popey> !no oggcamp i <reply> oggcamp is a two day unconference on October 31st / November 1st in Liverpool - See http://oggcamp.org/ for details
[10:58] <foobarry> i wold go to that
[10:58] <popey> bah
[10:59] <foobarry> but liverpool :(
[10:59] <popey> !no oggcamp is <reply> oggcamp is a two day unconference on October 31st / November 1st in Liverpool - See http://oggcamp.org/ for details
[11:02] <czajkowski> also london folks http://london-2015.devrel.net/
[12:36] <diddledan> so my toys arrived
[12:37] <diddledan> now to juggle wires until I can get the OS copied across to the SSD
[12:54] <foobarry> has anyone been watching king of the nerds on sky?
[12:54] <foobarry> warning: its terrible but i can't stop watching
[13:59] <foobarry> where is the rain coming from?
[13:59] <foobarry> the clouds.
[13:59] <foobarry> where before that?
[14:04] <bigcalm> The sea
[14:04] <bigcalm> And lakes
[14:04] <bigcalm> And rivers
[14:04] <bigcalm> And my tears
[14:04] <bigcalm> :'-(
[14:09] <foobarry> but only if the sun makes the water evaproate?
[14:09] <foobarry> what sun?
[14:09] <bigcalm> Sol
[14:09] <foobarry> its been raining solidly for 4 days
[14:11] <bigcalm> It's the end times
[14:15] <shauno> the sun is elsewhere :)
[14:16] <shauno> cloud forms over see, gets blown your way, bursts.  you don't need sun to be on the receiving end.  just ask ireland ..
[14:16] <shauno> er, sea
[16:25] <shauno> Knightmare: is "winkelwagen" actually a good translation for a shopping cart (web)?
[16:25] <MartijnV1S>  yes
[16:25] <shauno> I have a page presenting me with a button "toevoegen aan winkelwagen", and to be honest, it sounds a lot like one of diddledan's jokes
[16:26] <MartijnV1S> add to basket
[16:26] <MartijnV1S> is what that means
[16:26] <MartijnV1S> (winkelwagen = shopping cart)
[16:26] <shauno> fair enough.  I did manage to make the mental leap from cart to wagon
[16:26] <shauno> but .. well I'm sure diddledan will eventually chime in and tell you all about his winkel
[16:38] <daftykins> he is oddly slow off the mark today :)
[16:39] <shauno> he did say he watched 20 episodes last night.  he's probably very far from conscious right now
[16:39] <daftykins> O_O
[16:39] <shauno> (I hope)
[17:06] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hi9psnk5ba26jol/IMG_20150826_175248.jpg?dl=0
[17:06] <daftykins> don't buy that one, it comes with scary leads
[17:52] <shauno> lol @ scary leads.  I call them boas.  leads that fight back
[17:52]  * diddledan wagens his winkel
[17:52] <daftykins> kids'll do anything for scary leads
[17:53] <diddledan> what's a view-converter and is getting one for free a good deal?
[17:54] <daftykins> i imagine it's some googly eye specs
[17:54] <daftykins> hmm back to shopping for TVs for the boss
[17:54] <daftykins> for the flat down in Spain ;)
[17:56] <shauno> wouldn't it make more sense to search in spain?  especially with the euro being a bit pants right now
[17:56] <diddledan> I just looked at the back of my TV. the cables frightened me
[17:57] <diddledan> they must be scary leads
[17:57] <daftykins> well he wants to watch British services back home, so i suspect it might be handy to get a set over here that's got the proper services
[17:57] <daftykins> plus we're VAT free anyway so it might not be too helpful
[17:57] <daftykins> you raise a fair point though, mmm
[17:58] <daftykins> he's got a big shipment of refurb kit going down there so the TVs can join in though y'see
[17:58] <daftykins> as long as i get them before mid September
[17:59] <shauno> I keep forgetting about your tax frau...deal
[17:59] <daftykins> trust me, it's matched up with plenty of getting *ahem*'d over by the UK gov so it's not all peaches and cream
[18:50] <daftykins> £656 for a 48" and a 40", seems alright
[18:51] <SuperEngineer> just testing (xsetting up AndChat on firm's new tablet). Does iy s
[18:52] <SuperEngineer> *" doos it stay connected now?
[18:52] <daftykins> yep major typos and all ;)
[18:53] <SuperEngineer> Definite haha! Thanks daftykins
[18:55]  * SuperEngineer deliberately logs off now  ;)   thanks for the patience
[19:01] <SuperEngineer> [that's better, back on desktop now - thanks again for the help]
[19:35] <webpigeon> >.>
[19:37] <foobarry> help me ubunt-uk my only hope...
[19:37] <daftykins> o0
[19:37] <foobarry> got my first speeding points. was on holiday and was following a car on unfamiliar road and thought it was 40mph
[19:38] <foobarry> what happens next after sending back the form to say i dunnit?
[19:38] <davmor2> ignore foobarry he'll either go away or be captured by stormtroopers and flown off to a space station the size of a small moon
[19:38] <foobarry> i can't do the driver course as it's 5hrs drive away
[19:38] <davmor2> no idea never had points before
[19:39] <daftykins> don't have a points system here ;x
[19:40] <foobarry> although i was snapped by a secret gun
[19:41] <m6lpi> foobarry: if the other driver done off a cliff would you follow?
[19:41] <m6lpi> Drove
[19:42] <daftykins> perhaps foobarry drives a Bond-esque flying car
[19:43] <davmor2> or submersible esprit
[19:49] <foobarry> m6lpi: thanks. i had turned off a 40mph road at a roadabout in unfamiliar area, on a downhill section, no speed signs
[19:50] <foobarry> these things happen. and the police know as the perched a little man behind a tree with a speed gun
[19:50] <foobarry> maybe if satnav told me...
[19:51] <daftykins> ooh entrapment
[19:51] <daftykins> only probably not as i'm not familiar with the true definition :)
[19:55] <m6lpi> Right... you need lots of info to properly defend it.
[19:55] <foobarry> i'm not going to
[19:55] <foobarry> gonna say fair do's and put it down to experience
[19:55] <foobarry> but what happens next ?
[19:55] <foobarry> get sent an invoice? have to send my licence off?
[19:55] <m6lpi> In that case your options are put yours hands up, pay the fine and take the points or put your hands up and do the course
[19:56] <m6lpi> Points don't get printed on the license any more
[19:56] <m6lpi> Bear in mind that the bit with the photo is the license. The paper bit is no longer issued or returned
[19:57] <foobarry> hm
[19:58] <m6lpi> Send them back the NIP with your confession, they'll advise what's next (like them sending a bill)
[19:58] <foobarry> and they will ask for me to send my photocard away?
[19:58] <m6lpi> Doubt it
[19:58] <foobarry> just noticed is recently expired :(
[19:58] <m6lpi> I've not heard of anyone else that's hit a sp40 since the rules changed in June
[19:59] <m6lpi> As in new photo needed?
[19:59] <foobarry> i was doing 39 in 30
[19:59] <foobarry> yeah i think so
[19:59] <m6lpi> Sp30 then...
[19:59] <m6lpi> Well, get the photo updated. If needed you can explain to the fuzz that you're awaiting a replacement license due to.photo expiry
[20:00] <foobarry> will be looking into that tomorrow
[20:00] <foobarry> unfortuantely i work in a wasteland ghetto
[20:00] <foobarry> looks like i'm gonna be travelling around a bit
[22:27] <daftykins> well there we go, couple of TVs ordered ^_^
[22:27] <daftykins> get to play with those soon enough!