[00:30] <Azelphur> ali1234: you happen to be around at this time of night? having a bit of a panic here
[00:30] <ali1234> okay?
[00:30] <Azelphur> ali1234: basically, there's a full drive encrypted partition on my laptop that contains my cold wallet, and it's not showing up in grub any more, and I think my cleaner threw out my paper backup
[00:30] <Azelphur> so...kinda shitting bricks
[00:30] <ali1234> sorry but... lol
[00:30] <Azelphur> yea I know, lol
[00:30] <Azelphur> but uhh, halp?
[00:31] <ali1234> i don't use full drive encryption
[00:31] <Azelphur> the partition is still there
[00:31] <ali1234> for exactly this reason
[00:31] <Azelphur> and I have the keys to decrypt the partition
[00:31] <ali1234> well the first thing you should do is unplg the hard drive and image it before you make the problem worse
[00:31] <ali1234> read only mode
[00:31] <ali1234> now
[00:31] <Azelphur> yea
[00:33] <ali1234> i can't understand why the cleaner would throw out paper wallets
[00:33] <Azelphur> ali1234: whoo, called the cleaner and she told me she moved it
[00:33] <Azelphur> thank fuck...I was panicing like hell lol
[00:33] <ali1234> did you just leave them lying around on the floor or somehting?
[00:33] <Azelphur> ali1234: not the best of places, under the bed xD
[00:33] <ali1234> if so, how do you nkow the cleaner won't steal them?
[00:33] <ali1234> could have copied them
[00:33] <Azelphur> this is the kick in the teeth to backup properly.
[00:33] <Azelphur> yea I know
[00:33] <ali1234> seriously, so many problems
[00:34] <Azelphur> not the best of solutions, I am gonna sort this first thing tomorrow, that is definitely the kick in the teeth I needed.
[00:34] <Azelphur> ali1234: and cleaner is my brothers sister, I trust her not to steal them
[00:34] <Azelphur> but yea, phew none the less :)
[00:35] <Azelphur> brothers sister...I mean brothers fiance
[00:35] <ali1234> your brother's sister... isn't that like, your sister?
[00:35] <Azelphur> haha
[00:35] <daftykins> i've only ever seen heartache from FDE users in #ubuntu
[00:36] <ali1234> yeah, same
[00:36] <ali1234> mind you, if it works, why would you even mention it?
[00:36] <Azelphur> Tomorrow I shall try and fix that partition, and then take multiple backups :)
[00:36] <ali1234> like all things, you only hear about it when it breaks
[00:36] <Azelphur> nn folks :)
[00:36] <daftykins> *nod*
[00:36] <daftykins> nn sir
[00:50] <ali1234> azelphur going to bed early, is this real life?
[00:57] <daftykins> i had to check if i was asleep
[01:01] <diddledan_> I'm not
[01:05] <daftykins> :>
[01:28] <shauno> I use FDE .. zero problems
[01:29] <diddledan_> shauno: you're on a mac
[01:30] <shauno> I'm sorry :(
[01:30] <diddledan_> :-p
[01:30] <shauno> ping me when 'the year of the linux desktop' gets here and I'll take another look :p
[01:32] <shauno> assuming I've found a way to actually boot linux on this by then :/
[01:39] <daftykins> haha
[01:40] <daftykins> shauno: really? i thought it was pretty do-able on all macbooks, using rEFInd or similar
[01:41] <shauno> if I rip my 2nd drive out so I can put a cdrom back in, yeah
[01:41] <shauno> it has to be done via bios-emulation so the gpu switching is disabled
[01:42] <daftykins> *nod*
[01:42] <shauno> because my grandmother understands gpu switching better than linux does
[01:42] <daftykins> i always found the 'ROM' qualification to be redundant, after all the vast majority of optical media people are going to encounter will be read only :>
[01:44] <shauno> at the moment, it boots, discovers the amd chip, and switches to it
[01:44] <shauno> but doesn't invoke the gpu switching stuff, so it's driving a gpu that isn't connected to anything
[01:44] <shauno> and nothing I've tried re: blacklisting will stop it
[01:45] <daftykins> AMD beside intel on-die?
[01:45] <shauno> right, one of each
[01:46] <shauno> on osx, it switches between them based on what GL routines are in use, which is snazzy
[01:47] <shauno> but you can't just start using whichever gpu takes your fancy.  you have to poke the gmux so the right one is pointed to the screen
[01:47] <daftykins> mmm, all this hybrid graphics stuff is quite funky
[01:47] <daftykins> yeah must not be too far off nvidia's optimus tech
[01:47] <shauno> which I can do from osx, and from grub, but not from linux
[01:52] <shauno> (well, I can in theory, by shoving some bytes down ioctl.  but not if I can't stop the kernel from switching to that gpu before the gmux has been told to power it, because that causes the kernel to halt)
[01:53] <daftykins> which model is this? i wasn't aware any of them had showstopping Loonix usage yet
[01:53] <shauno> well that's it, all the docs say it works fine, because it does if you boot it with bios-emulation
[01:53] <shauno> but that needs my cd drive back :(
[01:54] <shauno> if you boot with bios emulation it uses the amd gpu exclusively, because bios doesn't provide the interface to switch.  so that entire problem goes away (along with your battery heh)
[01:54] <daftykins> ah ok :)
[01:55] <daftykins> yeah i think i'd heard of some complaining about high temps and bad battery
[01:56] <shauno> that's almost certainly why.  even in osx, which has some pretty astounding power management, using the discrete gpu gets quite toasty
[02:08] <diddledan_> why do you need your cd drive for bios mode?
[02:08] <diddledan_> just boob off a usb
[02:10] <daftykins> because bootcamp i suspect
[02:11] <diddledan_> yeah bootcamp can do usb
[02:11] <shauno> because apple's efi implementation is terrible
[02:11] <shauno> you get bios emulation if you boot from an internal device
[02:12] <diddledan_> as far as it's worked for me it boots bios mode if I tell it to boot an mbr
[02:13] <diddledan_> with ubuntu dvds the default os selector lists two boot options for a usb stick - one for bios and one for efi
[02:14] <diddledan_> the efi is nicely labelled "efi boot"
[02:14] <diddledan_> so you can choose the other
[02:14] <shauno> that doesn't strike me as logical
[02:43] <shauno> just tried 14.04.1 - I do get two options, but theyre both named "efi boot"
[02:43] <diddledan_> >.<
[02:44] <daftykins> haha nice
[02:49] <shauno> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjqq0ygnxd7o5kh/IMG_2183.JPG?dl=0
[02:51] <diddledan_> how did you create the usb? it needs to be done with dd not diskutil
[02:51] <diddledan_> I _think_ that's accurate anywho
[02:54] <shauno> it was dd, yeah
[02:55] <diddledan_> in that case then I'onno
[02:55] <shauno> and I have a little faith it's written, because I get to & past grub
[02:55] <shauno> but after grub the screen switches off, and then the fans failsafe
[02:56] <shauno> (eg, hairdryer)
[03:04] <shauno> looking to see if I still have the copy of grub-efi I built
[03:05] <shauno> I find ubuntu's practically unusable because instead of my beautiful 10-line config file, it uses a small book's worth of bash nonsense
[03:06] <diddledan_> yeah, grub2 configs are pretty indecipherable
[03:06] <diddledan_> not that they need to be like that
[03:06] <shauno> they're not, that's just it
[03:07] <daftykins> another example of progress, eh?
[03:07] <diddledan_> update-grub takes an age sometimes
[03:08] <diddledan_> apt-get install foo.... lets update grub 4 times
[03:10] <shauno> eg, my grub.cfg is http://paste.ubuntu.com/8609763/
[03:10] <shauno> that I can understand :)
[03:11] <shauno> and boot.cfg is http://paste.ubuntu.com/8609765/
[03:11] <shauno> which is also perfectly readable.  even with all my attempts to get the radeon to bugger off
[03:16] <shauno> (and yes, as you can tell, I love being able to loop isos in grub2.  it makes the bootstick full of OSes remarkably sane)
[03:19]  * daftykins makes a cross with his fingers at the referneces to raring
[03:20] <daftykins> *references
[03:21] <shauno> heh, that'll be last time I was giving this a shot
[03:22] <mapps> hi all
[03:23] <shauno> I tend to have that problem  i dont remember how long ago things were until i wake up the pxe box and it offers me 8.06
[03:23] <daftykins> mornin' mapps
[03:24] <daftykins> shauno: :D
[03:24] <mapps> guessing u all havent been to sleep:P
[03:24] <shauno> mapps: whats that?
[03:24] <mapps> heh
[03:26] <daftykins> err
[03:26] <daftykins> ok my HTPC freaks me out, it just spontaneously booted
[03:26] <daftykins> i need to sleep shortly, got a friends telco engineer visit coming up
[03:26] <shauno> surely youshould be awake for that?
[03:27] <mapps> at what time:D
[03:27] <daftykins> 1:30pm \o/
[03:28] <daftykins> assuming he remembers to come to my house and post me a spare key so i can get in
[03:29] <shauno> ssh on the ipad is ugly
[03:30] <shauno> I think I'll carry on fighting with that another time.  I need to update bits for 14.04 because they never leave the kernel in the same place twice
[03:32] <shauno> (also curious to find out what happens if I move grub into the efi partition)
[03:33] <shauno> reminds me of when I figured I could install from the harddrive, to the harddrive, by making a small partition and dd'ing the iso to it.  I figured it'd just show up in the list of bootable partitions
[03:33] <shauno> turns out the mac's efi doesn't like that.  big time.
[03:35] <mapps> which ipad you got?
[03:36] <shauno> 2, I think
[03:36] <shauno> it's old and beat up, but the battery still lasts for days, so I can't see a use for a new one yet
[03:38] <shauno> it took a nice knock on a corner - now if you push your hands on top & bottom of it, you can see behind the screen
[03:41] <shauno> I think I need new toys though :(  my laptop's getting old enough that it took a hex editor to make sure I got all the new tricks in 10.10
[03:42] <daftykins> O_O
[03:43] <shauno> there's a whitelist of which models get the 'continuity' stuff.  mine's not on it because it didn't come with bt-le.
[03:43] <shauno> but since I replaced the bt board with one from a newer mac, I fixed the list
[03:43] <daftykins> ah yes i was following that news as it came out :)
[03:44] <daftykins> i bootcamp'd win7 on my clients mid 2010 iMac as she wants to go fully Microsoft now
[03:44] <daftykins> so i doubt i'll be bothering to reinstall with Yosemite on there
[03:44] <shauno> slightly annoying as you not only have to take a hex editor to a kernel module to do it, but you also have to break the signing stuff so it doesn't reject it
[03:50] <mapps> since being here ive smoked more than normal..so cheap here
[03:50] <mapps> £2.40 for 20 marlboro/camel lights
[03:50] <mapps> cant help myse;f it seems:D
[03:50] <mapps> why cant cigarettes not be bad!
[03:52] <daftykins> drugs are bad, mmk
[03:53] <shauno> that's hardly fair.  it's not the cigarette's fault your body isn't designed to process them
[03:55] <mapps> yea
[03:59] <daftykins> nn guys
[03:59] <mapps> night mate
[03:59] <shauno> morning?
[04:00] <shauno> I think we lost diddledan_ too
[04:01] <mapps> Network File Server (Windows Networking)
[04:01] <mapps> Server Enabled:	Yes
[04:01] <mapps> Server Name:	Gibtelecom
[04:01] <mapps> Server Description:	DSL Gateway
[04:01] <mapps> Workgroup:	WORKGROUP
[04:01] <mapps> whats that hm
[04:29] <mapps> The irc logs fdont have on joins logged?
[04:29] <mapps> trying to find out what my old sky ip was
[04:59] <shauno> mapps: creepy stalking in /msg ;)
[05:01] <shauno> (get it while it's hot, I put a 1hr expire on it .. because)
[05:13] <mapps> thanks
[06:57] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:17] <SuperMatt> two days till release day!
[08:19] <foobarry> found this hilarious http://vimeo.com/109169719
[08:33] <foobarry> now i know why canonical dropped u1. dropbox charges $10 a month for 1tb storage now
[08:37] <DJones> foobarry: There's that and if you use Office 365, you also get !tb effectively free (assuming you're paying for MS Office anyway)
[08:51] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:52] <zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
[08:52] <brobostigon> morning carbon based zmoylan-pi lifeform
[08:54] <awilkins> Grrrrargh
[08:54] <awilkins> Microsoft are ANNOYING me
[08:55] <awilkins> I have a new laptop
[08:55] <awilkins> I have bleached the Taint off it and installed Ubuntu
[08:55] <MooDoo> lol
[08:55] <awilkins> In order to service the needs of my new corporate masters with regard to running things like MS Project, I have decided to put a VM on it and install Windows 7 Pro in it
[08:56] <awilkins> Like a good little drone, I have determined that I need a new license, even though the one included with the laptop is not being used
[08:56] <awilkins> I know you can get a nice clean no-bloatware ISO for the OS straight from Microsofts CDN
[08:56] <awilkins> So all I need is a license key
[08:57] <awilkins> If you google "Buy OSX online" ; top four links are for the Apple store. The top link offers to sell you Snow Leopard for £14 but helpfully points out that Yosemite is free.
[08:58] <awilkins> If you google "Buy Windows online" you get a bunch of sponsored links. Most of them for double glazing.
[08:58] <zmoylan-pi> try that search on bing
[08:58] <MooDoo> http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24281.iso  64bit windows 7 pro iso
[08:58] <awilkins> Yup, that's the official ISO
[08:58] <foobarry> some guy i worked with 15+ years ago is asking for a reference
[08:58] <foobarry> do i decline politely?
[08:59] <foobarry> all i can remember is a massive mistake he made
[08:59] <zmoylan-pi> how good is he at making sandwiches?
[09:01] <awilkins> If you go to MicrosoftStore.com (which despite looking dodgy on a search engine does seem to be actual MS property)
[09:02] <zmoylan-pi> been ms makes it dodgy to my mind
[09:02] <awilkins> They only want to sell you Windows 8.1
[09:03] <awilkins> £189.99 incVAT
[09:03] <awilkins> Ouch
[09:03] <MooDoo> I just purchased a legit key from ebay and downloaded the iso....
[09:03] <awilkins> OEM or retail?
[09:04] <zmoylan-pi> just so it looks like you're getting a bargin when it's bundled with your pc instead of been the millstone it is
[09:04] <awilkins> Yeah, Ubuntu on this new hardware goes ka-chow
[09:04] <awilkins> Have the mSATA as a backing cache for the spinny rust
[09:04] <MooDoo> awilkins: oem i think, it works and is activated, legit hologram too
[09:05] <awilkins> MooDoo, ah, so they don't email you the key?
[09:05] <awilkins> Or do they email you the key then post you the COA?
[09:05] <MooDoo> awilkins: yes, they post it to you, and you can reqeuest email which I did
[09:05] <awilkins> Not sure if you're actually allowed to install OEM version on a VM
[09:05] <awilkins> Although no technical measures to stop you apparently
[09:06] <MooDoo> the only issue i had was i had to phone activate it. but it wored fine.
[09:06] <awilkins> Phone activation is just inconvenient
[09:06] <awilkins> All robot based these days, innit? No actual person grilling you.
[09:06] <MooDoo> yeah
[09:06] <awilkins> Tesco.com selling Windows 8.1 for £96.58
[09:07] <awilkins> Ah, they've cunningly omitted the "Home" from home versions now, haven't they
[09:07] <zmoylan-pi>  but is that win 8.1 starter basic home edition?  not a lot of windows in that :-)
[09:07] <foobarry> still a lot of money
[09:07] <awilkins> "Full version" (except it's not pro because it's the purple box)
[09:07] <MooDoo> if it's just 7 you want, cost me about £25
[09:07] <MooDoo> I think
[09:07] <foobarry> i'd want to feel like a software was amazing to pay more than £10 for
[09:08] <awilkins> Yeah, 7 pro
[09:08] <MooDoo> http://stores.ebay.co.uk/aclass-software-products
[09:08] <awilkins> Ta for the referral
[09:09] <MooDoo> :) ok
[09:13] <awilkins> 30 squids
[09:13] <awilkins> Much better
[09:13] <awilkins> Hooray for dumpster diving of licenses
[09:14] <MooDoo> lol
[09:25] <MooDoo> absoolutely chuffing it down here
[09:25] <foobarry> thats bad
[09:25] <foobarry> i have a 4ft trench in my garden
[09:25] <foobarry> and the gutters are also draining into the trench
[09:43] <zmoylan-pi> no problem, dig another hole beside the trench and bail the water into there :-p
[09:45] <foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/bupMH52.jpg
[09:45] <foobarry> it goes around in a u-shape
[09:45] <foobarry> more like a moat
[09:51] <safiyyah> Morning all, I have decided that I am not getting on with gnome on trusty (I hate unity), I want to have kde OR xfce I want to ask if I should just do a reinstall with kubuntu so I can have kwin instead of compiz and all the other kde stuff rather than trying to work them out one by one. Also can someone explain if xfce is the same?
[09:51] <safiyyah> ali1234,
[09:52] <safiyyah> ali1234,  read above please? really need a pointer in the right direction
[09:54] <safiyyah> I need to say that I liked gnome (metacity) but then none of the docks worked because on my system despite compiz setting mgr being there and the compositing feature being ticked, it is not compositing!!!  Anyway had a look around and I can live with kde or xfce.
[09:55] <MooDoo> if you don't have a problem with a complete reinstall, just install xubuntu or kubuntu....
[09:55] <MooDoo> or isn't there something like desktop-xfce you can install?
[09:56] <zmoylan-pi> ^this
[09:56] <zmoylan-pi> this adds xubuntu as option to log in menu at startup
[09:56] <zmoylan-pi> save a reinstall
[09:56] <safiyyah> you install the desktop but there seem to be alot of kde packages in general which I  want
[09:57] <diplo> I always go with a fresh install now adays
[09:57] <safiyyah> I only installed my system 2 weeks ago zmoylan-pi  so I don't mind
[09:57] <MooDoo> well you could always - sudo apt-get install xfce4 xfce4-goodies
[09:57] <diplo> Otherwise you have to keep all the other deps from all other WM's updating
[09:57] <MooDoo> or if you want full - sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[09:57] <zmoylan-pi> but you had such troubles installing it safiyyah
[09:58] <safiyyah> zmoylan-pi, yes I agree, but once I set up a system that's it for 2 years until the next LTS, I think it's a long time to live with something you are unhappy with
[10:03] <safiyyah> is the 64 bit kubuntu the one to get? I have 64 bit ubuntu. I don't want one that is fixy please?
[10:05] <zmoylan-pi> if you're using 64 bit ubuntu then 64 bit kubuntu is the one to go for
[10:05] <safiyyah> thanks, I thank you in advance for all the help am going to be asking for
[10:06] <safiyyah> :)
[10:11] <zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed it all goes well
[10:28] <safiyyah> Downloading, but have a lesson between now and 1, so be back about 1:30ish
[10:43] <ali1234> if you just install xfce-desktop along side unity it can cause problems
[10:43] <ali1234> in theory it is supposed to work, but in practice it doesn't
[10:44] <zmoylan-pi> that's how i've installed it a few times.  no real problems sprung to mind.
[10:44] <ali1234> kde is easier, because it doesn't use the same libraries as unity, but it could still have problems
[10:45] <ali1234> bug 1307657
[10:46] <ali1234> bug 1314782
[10:46] <ali1234> just a couple of problems caused by having unity installed on an xfce system
[10:50] <zmoylan-pi> fair enough, haven't experienced either luckily enough
[10:50] <zmoylan-pi> yet... :-)
[10:51] <Azelphur> ali1234: to reply to yesterday, yea I've started keeping more sane hours :)
[10:51] <Azelphur> in other news...on things you definitely don't want to see in the morning: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oo606qjndmn3fl5/2014-10-21%2011.50.38.jpg?dl=0
[10:53] <Azelphur> that drive better not be failing, that's one of my 3TBs :(
[10:53] <zmoylan-pi> if there is any doubt there is no doubt... :-(
[10:54] <Azelphur> hehe
[10:54] <Azelphur> It's only a backup drive so there's no data loss, just have to buy a new one
[12:05] <foobarry> how do i make a url disappear from the chrome awesome bar?
[12:05] <foobarry> delete key no worky
[12:07] <ali1234> i don't think you can. i didn't know you could do that in firefox until recently
[12:07] <foobarry> :(
[12:07] <foobarry> also chrome has taken to not remembering my passwords lately
[12:07] <ali1234> http://superuser.com/questions/273278/how-to-remove-an-entry-from-chromes-remembered-urls-from-the-url-bar
[12:07] <foobarry> and not keeping me logged in
[12:08] <foobarry> yay ali1234 ta
[12:08] <foobarry> shift-del
[12:08] <foobarry> del does nothing, so shift-del is unintuitve :(
[12:09] <ali1234> well del isn't exactly inuitive either, when the text field has focus. you would think it would delete the character after the cursor
[12:09] <ali1234> this is how i accidentally discovered the feature
[12:09] <ali1234> so i suppose it is kind of inuitive, in a reall terrible way
[12:30] <Azelphur> https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=56c81165bb14f1511c56484f2dbe9f39 it's times like this when open source is awesome :)
[12:36] <safiyyah> ali1234 so next time you will just get xubuntu straight out of the box?
[12:37] <ali1234> sure, i always do that
[12:37] <safiyyah> ali1234,  sorry had a lesson just finished so only just reading the text
[12:37] <ali1234> i only know about these bugs because people report them
[12:37] <ali1234> and then i have to fix them
[12:37] <safiyyah> okay so you agree with my new install
[12:37] <safiyyah> cool.
[12:37] <safiyyah> ali1234, I feel like you cursed my love of gnome
[12:37] <safiyyah> you were talking about xfce
[12:38] <safiyyah> and now I have been unable to get on with gnome.... it's only logical that you are the one who put the ideas in my head
[12:39] <safiyyah> I cant decide between kde and xfce, have finished downloading 64bit kubuntu
[12:39] <safiyyah> trying to find a deciding youtube review
[12:39] <safiyyah> lol
[12:44] <foobarry> safiyyah: have you used elementaryos?
[12:55] <safiyyah> foobarry, no
[13:01] <foobarry> its nice
[13:01] <safiyyah> foobarry, looking it up
[13:03] <safiyyah> foobarry, this is an OS, but I like ubuntu, am not happy with the desktop environment so looking at other options
[13:06] <brobostigon> you can install whatever DE you like ontop of ubuntu, one isnt exclusive to the other.
[13:09] <ali1234> you need a ppa for elementary though
[13:09] <ali1234> and there is no guarantee it works properly
[13:09] <ali1234> https://launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+archive/ubuntu/stable
[13:10] <ali1234> also looks a bit dated
[13:18] <safiyyah> ali1234,  have your tried running kwin on xfce?
[13:18] <ali1234> no
[13:18] <ali1234> what would be the point?
[13:18] <safiyyah> its more stable than compiz..... my compiz has issues
[13:18] <ali1234> use xfwm then
[13:18] <ali1234> compiz 0.9 is really buggy
[13:18] <safiyyah> refuses to composite at will
[13:19] <safiyyah> xfwm? looking it up
[13:21] <safiyyah> ali1234,  you do realise the only youtube video on it is someone running openbsd..... that screams not user friendly
[13:21] <ali1234> on xfwm?
[13:21] <safiyyah> yes
[13:21] <ali1234> xfwm is the default window manage of xfce and therefore xubuntu
[13:22] <MooDoo> xubuntu is great
[13:22] <ali1234> xfce is commonly used on bsd, because it's pretty much the only desktop that is portable enough to run there, while still being half decent
[13:23] <safiyyah> ali1234, so what made you choose xubuntu over kubuntu?
[13:23] <MooDoo> i did it as i don't like kde, simple as that really
[13:23] <ali1234> do you really want to know? because you won't be able to stop me ranting for about an hour if i start
[13:23] <safiyyah> MooDoo,  suffering from a newly discovered hatred of gnome, now am lost!
[13:24] <safiyyah> lol ali1234 I genuinely want to know because I dont know if I should do kubuntu or xubuntu
[13:24] <ali1234> i even have illustrations to go with the rant
[13:24] <MooDoo> why you hate gnome, i hated it as It didn't look right, then I tried some extensions to make it look how I wanted and disable other features.
[13:24] <ali1234> like this one: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/kdefail.png
[13:24] <ali1234> that pretty much sums up why i don't like KDE
[13:24] <ali1234> and no, it hasn't improved
[13:25] <safiyyah> lol
[13:25] <safiyyah> but they have great aps
[13:25] <safiyyah> k3b etc
[13:25] <safiyyah> thats what was selling me , their apps
[13:25] <ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/kdefail2.png
[13:25] <ali1234> great UI design, really makes good use of the space
[13:26] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Amarok is probably *the worst* example for a KDE GUI. I changed a few highlight colours and the entire blasted thing turned pink!
[13:26] <ali1234> totally not a confusing mess
[13:26] <TwistedLucidity> No KDE itself, just Amarok.
[13:26] <ali1234> amarok is fairly representative of KDE applications in general
[13:26] <safiyyah> lol
[13:26] <ali1234> applications that aren't a confusing mess like amarok are horribly skeumorphic plasmoid monstrosities
[13:27] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: As a user of KDE, I wouldn't say so
[13:27] <ali1234> i'm looking forward to KDE 5, it looks like it might fix some of the worse problems
[13:27] <TwistedLucidity> Although you are right, they seem to chase features/configuration rather than boring-ness (i.e. stability). I miss GNOME2 :-(
[13:27] <ali1234> like the use of a default theme that Qt is incapable of rendering correctly
[13:28] <TwistedLucidity> I hope menus work. They don't in KDE
[13:28] <TwistedLucidity> "KDE 4"
[13:28] <ali1234> i used to be a KDE user years ago
[13:29] <ali1234> i stopped using it when i switched to ubuntu actually
[13:29] <ali1234> before canonical fixed up gnome, KDE was the best thing available
[13:30] <safiyyah> they fixed gnome until it was really good, and then they made the worst invention i.,e unity thereafter
[13:30] <ali1234> bug reference for "Qt can't render the default theme properly" bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283106
[13:31] <safiyyah> I feel like I have to click 20 times and type to pull things up on gnome.... and the metacity gnome refuses to composit
[13:31] <ali1234> you can enable compositing in metacity still
[13:31] <ali1234> althugh i don't know how you're using metacity in gnome shell, that's impossible
[13:31] <safiyyah> ali1234, it fixes and breaks!
[13:31] <safiyyah> I just want it working
[13:32] <safiyyah> and not have to think about configurations for about a year or two
[13:32] <safiyyah> lol
[13:32] <safiyyah> then I will come back and find out about the new LTS
[13:32] <safiyyah> my usual need for updates is when skype updates and doesn't work on the lts, thats when I upgrade,..... which is about 2.5 years
[13:32] <safiyyah> lol
[13:33] <safiyyah> ali1234, at the log in there are 3 gnome options, and one says metacity
[13:33] <ali1234> that's gnome classic or fallback or whatever they are calling it now
[13:33] <safiyyah> its has the layout I want without sending me on a clicking run but wont composit
[13:33] <safiyyah> even though compiz config mgr says compositing is on
[13:34] <ali1234> yes, metacity is not compiz!
[13:34] <ali1234> metacity used to have a config panel where you could turn on compositing
[13:34] <ali1234> it was removed like everything else good
[13:34] <ali1234> however, metacity is still capable of compositing
[13:34] <ali1234> you just have to edit the configuration manually
[13:35] <safiyyah> right so perhaps the solution is xubuntu with kwin
[13:35] <ali1234> lol, why do you want kwin?
[13:35] <ali1234> why not just use xubuntu with the default window manager?
[13:35] <safiyyah> looks cool, was the reason I fell in love with compiz
[13:36] <ali1234> xfwm also has compositing
[13:36] <ali1234> none of these window managers look even slightly similar however
[13:36] <ali1234> i think you're talking about something else when you say compositing
[13:37] <ali1234> because it isn't something you can see, it's just a way of drawing windows.. the windows themselves look the same unless they have transparency, which is rare
[13:38] <safiyyah> ali1234,  there is a compositing issue with gnome because NONE of the docks work. cairo dock, docky ... ANY dock because the compositing breaks
[13:39] <ali1234> that depends entirely on which version of gnome you are using
[13:39] <safiyyah> possibly
[13:39] <ali1234> external docks are quite likely to break in gnome-shell, because their entire desktop is designed to be incompatible with anything else
[13:39] <safiyyah> i can accept that
[13:39] <ali1234> they no longer use a separate WM and dock model
[13:40] <safiyyah> but that doesn't solve my click-about-the-computer problem to get to things.
[13:40] <ali1234> in gnome fallback with compiz, you will also get breakage, because compiz is no longer tested with anything but unity
[13:40] <safiyyah> the dock was meant to resolve that
[13:40] <ali1234> that also goes for xfwm
[13:40] <safiyyah> I dont like being sent around town all the time
[13:40] <ali1234> (compiz doesn't work properly with xfce either)
[13:40] <TwistedLucidity> If anyone is in Nottingham on 27th Oct, you might like this: http://nlug.ml1.co.uk/event/matt-lee-talks-about-stuff
[13:40] <safiyyah> ali1234, am ready to ditch compiz.... stary eye with kwin :)
[13:40] <ali1234> i highly recommend that you stick to one desktop, and don't try to mix components
[13:41] <safiyyah> I can live with either xfce or kde.... kde 5 looks wow
[13:44] <safiyyah> ali1234,  so you do not pimp out your desktop at all?
[13:44] <ali1234> sure, but i only use xfce software
[13:44] <safiyyah> hmmm
[13:44] <safiyyah> are you a youtuber?
[13:44] <ali1234> yeah
[13:44] <safiyyah> give me a link to your setup on youtube please
[13:44] <ali1234> i never talk in videos
[13:45] <safiyyah> doesn't matter
[13:45] <safiyyah> just want to see
[13:45] <safiyyah> well.... your version of pimping
[13:45] <ali1234> also most of my videos are about bugs
[13:46] <safiyyah> lol for all your love of xfce, you never did a 'show off' video on it?
[13:46] <ali1234> yeah i did a few, hang on
[13:49] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-G_HQu5_96VP4CMWcMu6Nr1hJDCyUEJL
[13:50] <ali1234> some features shown in those videos may not be available in a released version yet
[13:53] <ali1234> also https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/BWvsyYA6BLH
[13:56] <safiyyah> ali1234, your xfce setup  is what gnome used to look like before
[13:57] <ali1234> yeah, i know
[13:58] <safiyyah> yes so I liked gnome at that time, its the new one making me crazy
[13:58] <ali1234> if you want something like that, maybe use ubuntu mate
[13:58] <foobarry> tried MAET then?
[13:58] <foobarry> yeah what ali1234 said
[13:58] <ali1234> but wait until 14.10 is released (couple of weeks)
[13:58] <ali1234> because it isn't in 14.04
[13:58] <foobarry> the image search for vervet are somewhat pornographic
[13:58] <foobarry> one in particular
[13:59] <safiyyah> foobarry, i dont use any mini upgrades only lts
[13:59] <safiyyah> had one hell of an experience with maverick meerkat
[13:59] <safiyyah> never ever again
[14:00] <foobarry> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/08/install-mate-desktop-ubuntu-14-04-lts
[14:00] <foobarry> etc etc
[14:00] <ali1234> yeah i probably wouldn't go with the PPA
[14:02] <safiyyah> why not?
[14:03] <popey> that ppa is good.
[14:03] <popey> its maintained by Martin, who is an upstream MATE dev
[14:06] <safiyyah> foobarry, i like the mate one but its still buggy
[14:06] <safiyyah> i think getting it would be premature
[14:06] <ali1234> because ppas are nothing but trouble if you're not very familiar with how repositories and packages work
[14:07] <ali1234> in my experience anyway
[14:07] <safiyyah> ali1234, i am beginning to miss synaptic because it gave you all the dependencies
[14:07] <ali1234> install it then?
[14:07] <safiyyah> will be
[14:07] <ali1234> it's usually the very first thing i install on a fresh system
[14:08] <safiyyah> am starting again, downloading kubuntu
[14:08] <safiyyah> sorry i mean xubuntu
[14:08] <safiyyah> just got a couple of things to back up and get going on it again
[14:09] <ali1234> you'll probably be better off with MATE, really
[14:09] <ali1234> it's exactly the same code as the old gnome
[14:09] <safiyyah> ali1234, can I delete unity?
[14:09] <safiyyah> lol
[14:10] <ali1234> if you want to?
[14:10] <safiyyah> yes that would give me some satisfaction
[14:10] <ali1234> i would just use the 14.10 ubuntu mate installer
[14:10] <ali1234> when it is released
[14:10] <safiyyah> okay so no need for a fresh install, just add mate?
[14:11] <safiyyah> no i dont do those 6 month  releases
[14:11] <safiyyah> am alergic
[14:11] <ali1234> i'm not going to tell you that will work fine
[14:11] <safiyyah> since mavericj
[14:11] <ali1234> i honestly don't know
[14:11] <ali1234> there is potential for problems
[14:11] <safiyyah> when I upgrade in two year, mate will be better
[14:11] <ali1234> attempting to uninstall unity from an existing system is also prolematic
[14:11] <safiyyah> today their is kubuntu and xubuntu
[14:11] <safiyyah> there*
[14:12] <ali1234> there is also lubuntu and ubuntu studio (which is xfce)
[14:12] <safiyyah> lubuntu caught my eye
[14:12] <safiyyah> very light weight
[14:13] <safiyyah> but I figure more of you guys will be kubuntu and xubuntu type of people so I can get better support
[14:21]  * awilkins is a plain ol' Ubuntu with Unity person
[14:21] <safiyyah> awilkins, dunno how u do it
[14:21]  * brobostigon is on I3 tiling DE right now.
[14:21] <awilkins> Well, most of the time I'm using the apps, or a terminal
[14:22] <awilkins> Learn a few KB shortcuts and Unity doesn't really get in your way
[14:22] <zmoylan-pi> i used unity for 3-4 months, after having windows 8 on this laptop for 3-4 months it was such an improvement it didn't annoy me at first :-)
[14:23] <brobostigon> parentage, are both users of lxde and xfce.
[14:23] <safiyyah> no offence but unity feels dated to me and it is ugly
[14:25] <safiyyah> zmoylan-pi, been using ubuntu since gutsy, nothing has topped that gnome 2, with compiz....
[14:27] <safiyyah> havent used windows in about 6 years or7, if thats the state of things..... I dont know why people are using windoes
[14:33] <BigRedS> Anyone know a way of getting the time fs attributes were last changed?
[14:33] <BigRedS> so the output of lsattr on a file looks weird, I'm wondering when it changed
[14:44] <Azelphur> BigRedS: ls -l says the modified time
[14:45] <BigRedS> yeah, does chattr modify that?
[14:46] <BigRedS> I don't think chown does, ls shows mtime doesn't it?
[14:47] <Azelphur> I dunno
[14:48] <BigRedS> yeah, it does. I just realised how easy that was to test :)
[14:50] <Azelphur> Beach is kinda interesting with the weather today, funky patterns \o/ https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=27caad6c59d35899048e711b46762153
[14:55] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[14:57] <BigRedS> good morning!
[15:04] <bigcalm> Have I missed much this past month?
[15:04] <bigcalm> Moving house is pants
[15:07] <zmoylan-pi> 1 zombie outbreak, 1 hunt for red october, shiny new ipads, overall not much
[15:11] <awilkins> Has #gamergate been going on longer than a month?
[15:11] <zmoylan-pi> has't that been boiling over for ever?
[15:14] <directhex> about 2 months.
[15:14] <directhex> although yeah, some of it is ~2 years old
[15:14] <directhex> if you follow some of GG's loudest voices back in time
[15:15] <zmoylan-pi> i remember the complaints about advertising in 80s for games like barbarian and gameover.  and complaints about game reviews having no connection with the games reviewed goes back as far too
[15:19] <directhex> well, the modern "movement" isn't so much about those things, as a reactionary attempt to stop the cleaning up of those things
[15:19] <directhex> a lot of it ties in to a woman doing kickstarter-funded videos about sexist themes in games, which is about 2 years ago
[15:24] <arsenip> christ
[15:25] <arsenip> why is postgres replication documented in such a confusing manner
[15:25] <arsenip> clearly a #ubuntu-uk problem
[15:26] <foobarry> i remember A&B computing did a 5yr old using gimp censoring of linda lusardi in the barabrian ad
[15:26] <foobarry> massive blue "dress"
[15:26] <foobarry> was on the back page of the mag
[15:27] <foobarry> i appear to have entered a competition where 95% of the people have got the answer wrong
[15:27] <foobarry> IMHO
[15:28] <popey> Any of you watched "Halt & Catch Fire"?
[15:28] <popey> it's a rather good AMC TV series
[15:35] <zmoylan-pi> i watched 1-2 episodes, meh
[15:40] <zmoylan-pi> doesn't seem to have gotten the same same buzz as mad men
[15:42] <popey> not watched mad men
[15:42] <popey> i watched all 10 episodes of HCF in a row
[15:42] <zmoylan-pi> mind the first 1-2 episodes of that didn't grab me.
[16:01] <zmoylan-pi> might be time to watch 1-2 more episodes
[16:18] <christel> 17:41  <popey> i watched all 10 episodes of HCF in a row
[16:20] <christel> err
[16:20] <christel> child on keyboard
[16:20] <christel> \o/
[17:08] <DJones> christel: Put the child in a bed rather than expecting them to sleep on a keyboard, I'm sure it'll be more comfortable
[19:41] <diddledan_> !isitoutyet
[19:41] <diddledan_> :-p
[19:42] <ali1234> is what out yet?
[19:43] <brobostigon> !isitmeyet
[19:43] <diddledan_> I'm assuming the bot tells us about ubuntu


[01:20] <defcon_> can I upgrade to gutsy from feisty
[01:20] <defcon_> without reinstalling os
[01:20] <defcon_> or, what is different
[01:24] <borschty_> you can, but i would not advise you to do it, if you don't know how to do it
[01:24] <defcon_> borschty_, what are the differences
[01:24] <borschty_> gutsy is likely to contain errors, some of them even preventing the machine from booting up
[01:24] <defcon_> why upgrade/switch
[01:25] <borschty_> different: newer gnome and updated libraries, so far
[01:25] <borschty_> and pidgin replaced gaim (well actually it is just a version upgrade with a name change)
[01:26] <borschty_> at the moment you would not be able to install evince or gimp
[01:28] <borschty_> but if you don't know how to fix a broken system or are not willing to submit bugs you found there currently is no reason to upgrade... but if you are change feisty to gutsy in your sources.list and apt-get update and dist-upgrade
[01:31] <DanaG> Powertop is a nifty utility.
[01:31] <DanaG> But, for some reason suspend is now broken in the 2.6.22 kernel for me.
[01:31] <DanaG> The odd thing is that it hangs on suspend, not on resume.
[01:37] <defcon_> borschty_, can I just upgrade my gnome in feisty
[01:38] <defcon_> ?
[01:38] <borschty_> no
[01:38] <defcon_> so basically the bugs are with gnome?
[01:38] <borschty_> which bugs?
[01:39] <defcon_> well the difference is just libraries and gnome correct
[01:39] <defcon_> can I revert back after upgrade
[01:39] <borschty_> will be very hard
[01:39] <crdlb> !downgrade
[01:39] <borschty_> and not advisable if you have to ask such questions
[01:39] <ubotwo> Attempting to downgrade to an older Ubuntu version is explicitly not supported, and may break your system.
[01:40] <DanaG> It'd be better to back up your whole Ubuntu partition.
[01:40] <borschty_> or use a vmware image of ubuntu 7.04 and upgrade this
[01:42] <defcon_> borschty_, can I install gutsy to a partition while being in feisty
[01:42] <defcon_> or do I got to install via livecd
[01:42] <arkygeek> hi :)
[01:42] <defcon_> im interested in trying it out/bug testing, I have another drive thats empty
[01:43] <defcon_> matter fact i'll just install to a virtual box
[01:43] <arkygeek> i need to bypass the power limiting feature of the new kernel wrt usb devices
[01:43] <defcon_> !install
[01:43] <ubotwo> Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes/UbiquityKnownIssues - See also !automate
[01:43] <arkygeek> specifically, i have a usrobotics usr5420 usb wifi
[01:43] <borschty_> then you should download a nightly iso and install itt onto that partition
[01:43] <crdlb> are there iso's yet?
[01:43] <defcon_> borschty_, iso location?
[01:43] <defcon_> live cd?
[01:44] <borschty_> crdlb: i do not use them, but i think so...
[01:44] <defcon_> borschty_, best way to install gutsy?
[01:44] <defcon_> sorry im killing u with q's
[01:45] <borschty_> if there are no nightlies, take your feisty install cd, install that to the free partition, boot into that and then change your /etc/apt/sources.list from feisty into gutsy
[01:45] <borschty_> then sudo apt-get update
[01:45] <borschty_> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[01:46] <DanaG> kernel wrt usb?
[01:47] <arkygeek> 2.6.20-15-generic
[01:47] <borschty_> might lead to some problems right now, cause libpoppler prevents evince and gimp from installing, which are a dependency of ubuntu-desktop
[01:47] <DanaG> http://www.yes-www.org/www-is-not-deprecated/
[01:47] <defcon_> thankyou borschty_ bbiab
[01:47] <DanaG> heh, http://no-www.org/
[01:47] <arkygeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=225206
[01:48] <arkygeek> The basics of the problem is that Edgy has a new "feature" that limits the power that goes to USB devices. This is all well and good to protect USB devices, except when a device wants more power then the kernel likes. The WUSB54GS is one of those devices.
[01:48] <arkygeek> This feature can be turned off. Here's how.
[01:48] <arkygeek> etc.  however, it aint workin... :s
[01:58] <DanaG> Another odd thing: my scrolling on my touchpad isn't working.
[01:59] <DanaG> oh hey, my right edge was wrong... fixed it.
[02:05] <DanaG> Oh, something odd:
[02:05] <DanaG> when I put my iAudio6 in MTP mode, it still shows up as a USB Mass Storage device.
[02:06] <DanaG> It's not a big issue for me because I usually use UMS mode, but it is still a bug.
[02:07] <DanaG> heh, /me still thinks of Gusty.
[02:10] <DanaG> oh, and now there's also a san2
[02:11] <DanaG> http://san2.csc.calpoly.edu
[02:11] <DanaG> lovely naming, eh?
[02:11] <DanaG> Sorry for the downtime!
[02:11] <DanaG>
[02:11] <DanaG>    The Cal Poly CSC SAN is down at the moment for maintenance... please
[02:11] <DanaG>    try again later!
[02:11] <DanaG>    We're aware of the problem and are working towards a quick solution!
[02:11] <DanaG>    Thanks for your patience!
[02:11] <DanaG> er, brokenness in my paste-ness.
[02:12] <DanaG> argh, I keep using the wrong channel.
[02:30] <DanaG> WTF?  Nautilus is crashing when I go to Properties of some files.
[02:32] <borschty_> regular files or things like named pipes?
[02:33] <DanaG> Media files, it seems.
[02:33] <DanaG> Oh, and I still haven't gotten around to filing that "kernel oops on Audigy 2ZS Notebook" bug report.
[02:33] <Enverex> Is it possible to use the FGLRX drivers on 7.10?
[02:34] <DanaG> Yay, now I need magic sysrq.
[02:34] <borschty_> if you are not using .22-kernel it should be
[02:34] <Enverex> borschty_, The problem is XOrg, not the kernel
[02:34] <borschty_> oh, that got updated, too... already forgot about that
[02:36] <Enverex> So, the question still stands
[05:05] <DanaG> Device 'dock.0' does not have a release() function, it is broken and must be fixed.
[06:31] <DanaG> hmm, xubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop both have broken dependencies.
[06:37] <Hobbsee> DanaG: known.
[06:37] <Hobbsee> DanaG: do you get kontact and knoda dependancy problems when upgrading to 3.5.7?
[06:37] <Hobbsee> DanaG: i'm hearing that some people od, and some dont.
[06:40] <DanaG> I don't have kubuntu-desktop installed at all, yet.
[06:40] <DanaG> For xubuntu-desktop, there's a broken dependency with the mixer app.
[06:41] <Hobbsee> wouldnt surprise me
[06:41] <Hobbsee> in fact, it *would* suprrise me if those metapackages wer einstallable
[06:43] <DanaG> For kubuntu-desktop, I don't remember which package it was.  Let me check.
[06:44] <DanaG> aah, python-sip4 is unavailable.  python-qt4 depends on it.
[06:45] <Hobbsee> yeah, pyqt4 is broken with teh new sip4
[06:45] <Hobbsee> we know about it
[06:45] <Hobbsee> the knetworkmanager is fixed now, though
[06:47] <DanaG> Hmm, also, suspend seems to have broken.  Oddly, this time it hangs on suspend, rather than on resume like it did before (due to BIOS bug).
[06:48] <Hobbsee> you appeared to expect it to wrok
[06:48] <Hobbsee> Sysinfo for 'LongPointyStick': Linux 2.6.22-5-generic running KDE 3.5.7, CPU: Genuine Intel(R) CPU           T2250  @ 1.73GHz at 800 MHz (3458 bogomips), HD: 29/71GB, RAM: 1393/1510MB, 124 proc's, 3.23h up
[06:49] <Hobbsee> oh, i am using -5 now
[06:49] <DanaG> Longpointystick?  Nice hostname.
[06:50] <Hobbsee> yep
[06:50] <DanaG> Mine's boring: m685
[06:50] <DanaG> (model number -- brand: Gateway.)
[06:50] <DanaG> er
[06:50] <DanaG> damn apostrophe
[06:51] <DanaG> I love going to public access points (like at my school) and seeing people's workstation names on service-discovery-applet.
[06:51] <Hobbsee> wow, lots of kernel changes
[06:51] <Hobbsee> hehe, yep
[06:53] <DanaG> Have you tried "powertop" yet?
[06:54] <Hobbsee> yeah
[06:54] <Hobbsee> today :)
[06:55] <DanaG> i8042 seems to be a major interruptor.
[06:55] <Hobbsee>   43.5% (280.0)       <interrupt> : i8042
[06:55] <Hobbsee> i'm wondering what that is, though
[06:56] <DanaG> psmouse, for one.
[06:59] <DanaG> Is there a nice list of what's new in 3.5.7?
[06:59] <DanaG> Besides broken (or broken-out) kcontrol...
[07:00] <Hobbsee> kcontrol is broken?
[07:00] <DanaG> At least when I try it from under Gnome.
[07:01] <DanaG> The tree pane is empty for me.
[07:01] <Hobbsee> system settings is broken.  kcontrol works fine here
[07:01] <Hobbsee> i think there's a bug on taht?
[07:01] <DanaG> But in my Gnome panel, I see "other" that has everything there.
[07:01] <DanaG> s/panel/menu/
[07:04] <DanaG> I use Gnome because KDE feels bulky to me.  Note that bulky != bloaty.
[07:08] <Hobbsee> you'd have to check for a bug on it
[07:59] <DanaG> Gaah, don'tcha love part messages that have invalid characters?
[08:00] <DanaG> /* <96><81><96><82><96><83><96><84><96><85><96><86><96><87><96><88> */
[08:00] <DanaG>
[08:02] <Hobbsee> heh
[11:44] <cyrill62> Hi everybody !
[11:44] <cyrill62> I'm on Ubuntu gutsy, and I'd 2 problems with ia32-libs-gtk, and  |<kaafree> step2back, do you have jabber contact ?                       [11:1$]
[11:44] <cyrill62> firefox
[11:45] <cyrill62> dpkg crash on install of ia32-libs-gtk because he'll override /usr/lib32/lubXcursor.so.0.2
[11:46] <cyrill62> and it's file is contain in ia32-libs
[11:47] <cyrill62> even tought, dpkg don't want to install ia32-libs-gtk
[11:48] <cyrill62> and the second problem, when i run firefox, it doesn't start and I've a bad error message
[11:48] <cyrill62> ***MEMORY-WARNING***: firefox-bin[9714] : GSlice: g_thread_init() must be called before all other GLib functions;)]
[11:48] <cyrill62> Somebody can solve that, and help me?
[11:53] <gnomefreak> cyrill62: ia32libs-* are broken as for the memory thing restart into memtest and let it rin a coupld of hours.
[11:53] <gnomefreak> see if it finds anything bad
[11:55] <cyrill62> the ia32-libs problem and the firefox problem isn't the linked
[11:56] <cyrill62> it's 2 different problems
[11:56] <gnomefreak> if your on 64bit its possible they are linked but wont know until you do a memtest and everything comes up good ;)
[11:57] <gnomefreak> assuming since you need those libs your on 64. libpoppler is also going through a major transition atm so if either depands on poppler it very much can be that.
[11:57] <cyrill62> for ia32-libs-gtk, I think it's just a conflict between ia32-libs and ia32-libs-gtk
[11:58] <cyrill62> even tought I solve the memory warning problem, it'll not solve the ia32-libs problem
[11:58] <gnomefreak> cyrill62: dont know cant build them since i dont have a 64box atm. try filing a bug on it
[11:59] <cyrill62> on launchpad?
[12:01] <gnomefreak> !bugs
[12:01] <ubotu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.ubuntu.com/  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-bots
[12:04] <cyrill62> Ok, this bug with ia32-libs is already reported
[12:04] <cyrill62> 7 hours ago
[12:04] <gnomefreak> cyrill62: figured it would have been can i see the bug please
[12:05] <cyrill62> bug number 116770
[12:10] <gnomefreak> bug 116770
[12:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116770 in ia32-libs-gtk "ia32-libs-gtk can't be updated due to file conflict" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116770
[12:11] <gnomefreak> cyrill62: make sure you comment with as much info as possible including pasting the errors
[12:12] <cyrill62> the error message is already posted
[12:14] <cyrill62> mine is in french, but it's the same
[12:14] <cyrill62> lol
[12:14] <gnomefreak> post as much info as you can give. all he did was paste the error that maybe helpfull enough but i dont use it so ive never looked at the package
[12:17] <cyrill62> ok
[12:17] <cyrill62> I should register me on launchpad before...
[02:01] <sivaji> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22563/ dpkg crashed
[02:03] <Hobbsee> sivaji: ...that's not a crash.
[02:04] <Hobbsee> sivaji: and if you read it, you should be able to figure out what to do from there
[02:05] <sivaji> Hobbsee i tried  -f still i cant that is why i am asking u
[02:05] <Hobbsee>   Package libssl0.9.6 is not installed.
[02:05] <Hobbsee> try installing it then
[02:05] <Hobbsee> ditto the other
[02:05] <Hobbsee> -f usually isnt a good idea, unless you're sure of what you're doing.
[02:05] <sivaji> Hobbsee read properly that is not installable
[02:06] <sivaji> ymessenger: Depends: libssl0.9.6 but it is not installable
[02:06] <sivaji> u r very clever
[02:06] <Hobbsee> then you need to wait, file a bug if it's not already filed, and/or fix it.
[02:07] <sivaji> ya i  corrected that by remove ymessenger package
[02:07] <Hobbsee> that works
[02:07] <sivaji> are u operator
[02:07] <Hobbsee> did you file a bug?
[02:07] <sivaji> no i got my problem solved
[02:07] <sivaji> are u operator
[02:07] <Hobbsee> ymessenger isnt even *in* ubuntu
[02:08] <sivaji> ya i know
[02:08] <sivaji> are u operator
[02:08] <Hobbsee> yes.
[02:08] <Hobbsee> i couldnt have changed the topic if i wasnt one.
[02:09] <sivaji> ok bye
[02:09] <sivaji> Hobbsee i got one doubt
[02:10] <Hobbsee> shoot
[02:12] <Hobbsee> libssl0.9.6 wasnt installable, as it didnt exist in gutsy.
[02:12] <Hobbsee> ditto xlibs
[02:13] <sivaji> 64bit processor consumes 64bit to store a unit data it means it need twice space that 32bit processor so 64bit inefficient corrct
[02:15] <sivaji> Hobbsee are u there ?
[02:16] <Hobbsee> i'm not an expert on 64 bit systems.
[02:28] <ompaul> I was vicious here :)
[02:29] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:45] <Enverex> hrm, wasn't someone saying about ia32-libs being broken with ia32-libs-gtk?
[02:46] <cyrill62> Yes?
[02:46] <Enverex> hmm, seems there's a conflict with SDL too
[02:47] <Enverex> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ia32-libs_1.19ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/lib32/libdirect-0.9.so.25.0.0', which is also in package ia32-libs-sdl
[02:47] <cyrill62> hum.....shit
[02:48] <cyrill62> I think that the package creator miss to delete some librairies in ther package...
[02:48] <Hobbsee> Enverex: bug report is filed.
[02:48] <Hobbsee> both of them
[02:49] <cyrill62> it's just a minor bug, just the ia32-libs package is corrupted...
[02:49] <cyrill62> the ia32-libs package should be rebuild
[02:50] <Hobbsee> didnt seem like rebuild material to me, when i glanced at it.
[02:50] <cyrill62> I hope that it'll be solve tomorrow, because I can't run firefox32...
[02:51] <Hobbsee> it probably wont be fixed tomorrow, anyway
[02:51] <Hobbsee> it being a weekend, and all.
[02:52] <cyrill62> nobody work the week end?
[02:52] <cyrill62> isn't a company, it's a community...
[02:52] <Hobbsee> not the paid developers, usually
[02:52] <Hobbsee> depends
[02:53] <Enverex> I use 7.10 on both of my machines simply because I kinda hate out of date software. I'd use Debian Sid but it lacks lots of the "Just works" features of Ubuntu.
[02:53] <Hobbsee> it's not terribly time critical, and they'll likely start working 24x7 weeks closer to release
[02:53] <cyrill62> but ubuntu isn't maintain only by paid developpers?
[02:53] <Hobbsee> this is true
[02:54] <Hobbsee> cyrill62: still, the guy who last uploaded it is paid, so is probably having the weekend off.
[02:55] <Enverex> Ironic, the unpaid ones do stuff 7 days, the paid ones 5 days :P
[02:55] <cyrill62> lol
[02:55] <cyrill62> yes but paids work 12H by day on it
[02:55] <Hobbsee> Enverex: nah, not really.  we still take time off, go to uni, work, etc too
[02:55] <cyrill62> but unpaids not sure...and somthimes mote
[02:55] <cyrill62> mre
[02:55] <cyrill62> more
[02:56] <Hobbsee> 12 hour days?  that i doubt.  no one works them, in a normal working week, unless you're in a crazy country
[02:56] <Enverex> Like the UK
[02:56] <Enverex> heh
[02:56] <cyrill62> lol I'm french
[02:57] <Hobbsee> Enverex: exactly
[02:57] <cyrill62> the more lazy country
[02:57] <cyrill62> lol
[02:58] <cyrill62> when I think 12H/day, it's just because I don't know how many hours by day work others country
[02:59] <Hobbsee> 8, usually
[02:59] <cyrill62> in france, it's 7 or 8H/days
[03:00] <cyrill62> in france it's 35H/week
[03:01] <cyrill62> but with the new french president it'll change... ;-(
[03:01] <cyrill62> lol
[03:02] <Hobbsee> oh good, the rest of kde got done
[03:02] <cyrill62> and nobody have problems with firefox on amd64 Gutsy?
[03:02] <Hobbsee> most people dont run gutsy yet.
[03:03] <Enverex> cyrill62, Works fine on both my machine
[03:03] <Enverex> *s
[03:03] <cyrill62> I'd go on gutsy when fiesty was stable
[03:04] <cyrill62> to had the last kernel
[03:04] <Hobbsee> you couldnt
[03:04] <cyrill62> and progs
[03:04] <Hobbsee> toolchain was being built
[03:04] <Hobbsee> but crazy people, and those fixing bugs can, yes :)
[03:05] <Enverex> I really just can't decide on what distro to use and it's driving me mad
[03:05] <Hobbsee> out of?
[03:05] <cyrill62> I do, just change the repo on my sources.list
[03:06] <cyrill62> and apt-get update+apt-get dist-upgrade
[03:06] <cyrill62> and 'cool I'm in gutsy now :-)'
[03:07] <Enverex> All of them, heh. I liked Gentoo but the compile times and attitude of the devs turned me off. Ubuntu lacks a "rolling version" which I really want. Debian has Sid but... it seems kinda dated in terms of bug-trackers etc and slow to progress...
[03:07] <cyrill62> me too
[03:07] <Hobbsee> arch?
[03:07] <Hobbsee> although that's a compile thing too, i believe
[03:08] <Enverex> Hobbsee, x86_64
[03:16] <Enverex> Hobbsee, No ideas?
[03:18] <Hobbsee> about?
[03:18] <Hobbsee> i've got ideas about the new package i just uploaded, that's about it.
[03:19] <Enverex> Is that to replace the broken ia32 libs?
[03:19] <Hobbsee> no
[03:19] <Hobbsee> i cant upload to main
[03:19] <Enverex> Ah
[03:19] <Hobbsee> (yet)
[03:19] <Enverex> There's one thing that I don't like about Ubuntu. They don't update drivers and that's a bad thing.
[03:20] <Hobbsee> drivers?  which one were you after?
[03:20] <Hobbsee> or in a stable release?
[03:20] <Enverex> In a stable release I mean
[03:21] <Hobbsee> because they tend to change things, yes.
[03:21] <Enverex> Using old drivers is never a good idea, especially when all drivers are so... "unfinished" in Linux
[03:21] <Hobbsee> if i'm running a stable release, adn something changes, and i'm needing my computer to do work on, then i'll be pissed.
[03:21] <Hobbsee> if it's broken it
[03:21] <Enverex> Can you image if someone was complaining about a game not working well on XP or something and they were using a driver from 2000...
[03:22] <Hobbsee> they'd have 2000 programs, too?
[03:23] <Enverex> They'd probably have updated any apps they care about
[03:23] <Hobbsee> there are advantages and disadvantages of both methods
[03:24] <Enverex> Old drivers rarely have advantages
[03:24] <Hobbsee> stable systems for everyone has it's advantages
[03:24] <Hobbsee> keep in midn - these drivers are in the kernel - so every ubuntu user using that release gets the upgrade
[03:25] <Hobbsee> not just you, as would happen in a windows system
[03:25] <Hobbsee> (for the most part, anyway)
[03:26] <Enverex> Just because a driver is old doesn't mean it's stable though. I.e. the ATi drivers always have issues, just the newer ones have less issues (well, hopefully anyway). Just because it loads XOrg doesn't really mean it's ~stable~.
[03:27] <Hobbsee> this is true
[03:27] <Hobbsee> stable as in, known set of issues, doesnt suddenly blow up and leave you without X the day after an update.
[03:27] <Hobbsee> didnt you ever hear about the X update saga?
[03:28] <Enverex> I guess this is one of my issues with Linux in general. You're kinda locked to old software till the distro is updated... where as with Windows it's easy to update things...
[03:28] <Enverex> lol, I was with Gentoo for that, even more painful
[03:28] <Hobbsee> true
[03:28] <Hobbsee> or use gentoo and friends
[03:28] <Hobbsee> where you control what you want
[03:28] <Hobbsee> but you still ahve to wait for windows to update things too, keep in mind
[03:29] <Hobbsee> how much stuff doesnt work with vista, and isnt yet compatible?
[03:29] <Hobbsee> particularly when it was first released
[03:29] <Enverex> That's only for Windows core, not for the applications you use on it
[03:29] <Enverex> As I said, I liked Gentoo because it was a rolling version and very controlable, BUT, compiles take ages and the devs were complete assholes
[03:30] <Hobbsee> this is always the tradeoff, yes.
[03:30] <Hobbsee> things do take time to build.
[03:31] <Enverex> I'd run into compilation failures all the time though due to... god knows what reasons and stuff would never get fixed, so I got sick of spending all my time trying to fix the distro rather than use it.
[03:31] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:31] <Hobbsee> this is one of the problem with rolling releases, yes.
[03:32] <Hobbsee> come on...build kdelibs, build...
[03:32] <Enverex> I'm fighting on my laptop at the moment though, it's an ATi card and fglrx doesn't support XOrg 1.3
[03:32] <Hobbsee> i'm not convinced that the "rolling release which fully works, which has all the latest components" actually exists.
[03:33] <Enverex> I don't mind if it doesn't fully work, just as long as it doesn't have massive issues
[03:33] <Hobbsee> i'm suspecting it's a wishful myth, just like the one about infinite developers
[03:33] <Hobbsee> you cant upgrade teh base componentry without major breakage in a lot of cases, though.
[03:34] <Enverex> Well Debian Sid seemed ok and Gutsy seems ok to me, but I'm kinda worried using it because unlike Sid it's not designed to be used at all
[03:36] <Hobbsee> we say that, so people dont scream when their machine doesnt boot one day
[03:36] <Hobbsee> or X doesnt work
[03:36] <Hobbsee> it's not actually too bad, really.
[03:37] <Hobbsee> most things will work, on a day to day basis.  on balance.
[03:37] <Enverex> I guess I'm used to fixing stuff after using Gentoo for 4 years. The warning is for people that don't really know how to do anything on their Linux install other than the easy stuff eh?
[03:40] <Hobbsee> pretty much, yep
[03:40] <Hobbsee> and those who expect it to work all the time
[03:42] <Enverex> Fairy muff
[03:42] <Hobbsee> yay, kdepim finished
[03:49] <Enverex> Is anything wrong with DVD's in 7.10 at the moment (i.e. reasons why it wouldn't work)
[03:50] <Hobbsee> everything's being merged at the moment
[03:50] <Hobbsee> so, probably
[03:50] <lemonade> i had some trouble with codecs few days ago
[03:52] <Enverex> I can't play DVDs on my laptop with anything. Tried MPlayer, Totem, VLC, etc.
[03:53] <Hobbsee> installed libdvdcss2 from whatever source?
[03:56] <Enverex> Yup
[03:56] <Enverex> and all the other DVD libs, etc
[03:57] <Hobbsee> no idea then
[03:57] <Enverex> I had a horrible feeling it was the drive or something but it worked in XP
[07:03] <Peaker_> is hibernation broken now?
[07:03] <Peaker_> kcontrol center seems to be
[07:42] <cypherdelic> please help. i cant open my luks encrypted storage with gutsy since today
[07:42] <cypherdelic> i can Dump the info of the partition everything seems to be alright
[07:43] <cypherdelic> i can try to luksOpen, but as i type in the Passphrase it wont continue
[07:43] <cypherdelic> :)
[07:43] <cypherdelic> :(( please help
[07:44] <cypherdelic> i already reinstalled all packages
[07:44] <cypherdelic> how can i switch back to feisty packages
[07:44] <cypherdelic> just reediting the sources.list wont work?
[07:44] <cypherdelic> how to downgrade
[07:45] <cypherdelic> ok forget what i say suddenly after just waiting some couples of minutes it hooked in my partition
[09:21] <coNP> does gutsy work atm?
[09:21] <coNP> it's high time I ruined my system :)
[10:14] <edgy> Hi, I want to install gutsy in a chroot so i did: sudo debootstrap --variant=buildd gutsy /var/chroot/ http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ and at the end of it I have a message of: W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/chroot mount -t proc proc /proc, is this normal?
[10:21] <edgy> sudo chroot /var/chroot/
[10:21] <edgy> chroot: cannot run command `/bin/bash': No such file or directory
[10:22] <edgy> and now I am getting this ^, what's wrong please?
[10:56] <asubedi> does tracker still store its stuff in .Tracker? I just compiled the svn trunk and am running it. However, .Tracker is still not created.
[11:17] <edgy> asubedi: is tracker better than beagle?
[11:24] <asubedi> edgy: i haven't used beagle for a long while, but when I used both of them, tracker was better
[11:26] <asubedi> but i don't think tracker has progressed much since then. It's internals have changed a lot, and that's where the devs seem to put in a lot of effort nowadays
[11:34] <edgy> asubedi: thx
[11:45] <edgy> asubedi: are you using gutsy in chroot?
[11:45] <asubedi> nope
[11:46] <asubedi> edgy: i just upgraded wholesale to gutsy, but i think it was not a very good idea
[11:47] <edgy> asubedi: yes sure it's not a good idea. it's way from being near usable
[11:47] <edgy> I cannot even let it work in chroot, leave alone as a standalone
[11:58] <asubedi> edgy: actually it's mostly working fine
[11:59] <asubedi> edgy: only evince was not getting installed, but now i am using svn trunk of evince a i need some new stuff that is only in the trunk
[12:05] <Peaker_> I am using gutsy here and on my laptop
[12:05] <Peaker> hibernation is broken, and so is kcontrol. Don't think anything else specific is broken
[12:05] <Peaker> (here)
[12:11] <Enverex> hmm, my sound appears to have broken, mPlayer gives...
[12:11] <Enverex> alsa-lib: pcm_hw.c:1242:(snd_pcm_hw_open) open /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p failed: Device or resource busy
[12:11] <Enverex> alsa-lib: pcm_dmix.c:864:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
[12:11] <Enverex> But I don't remember seeing any ALSA changes lately
[12:12] <Enverex> Nevermind, turns out it's PulseAudio locking the soundcard... not a good thing


[00:00] <ahoneybun> valorie: no in the widget
[00:00] <ahoneybun> but you can click the links to the other parts
[00:00] <ahoneybun> btw got the repo images
[00:02] <ahoneybun> valorie: I'm uploading the repo images now
[00:03] <valorie> ahoneybun: then how do people actually access the information?
[00:03] <valorie> that's my only concern
[00:03] <valorie> if they click a link, do they get info
[00:03] <valorie> I don't care how it's delivered, as long as it IS delivered
[00:04] <ahoneybun> I know
[00:09] <valorie> I have no experience with webslice is all
[00:09] <ahoneybun> same
[00:10] <ahoneybun> valorie: btw I got screenshot using muon discover :)
[00:12] <valorie> on that note: we do use discover as default now, right?
[00:12] <valorie> if so, we should check that we refer to and picture that everywhere
[00:12] <valorie> which I didn't do
[00:14] <ahoneybun> yea that needs to be updated once we have everthing moved to userbase
[00:14] <valorie> I'm happy you are keeping track of all this
[00:14] <ahoneybun> valorie: here you go https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu :)
[00:14] <valorie> my contractors arrive the day after xmas to demolish the back bath
[00:15] <juancarlospaco> It worked well and its uploaded now  :)
[00:15] <valorie> ahoneybun: there is one broken image?
[00:15] <valorie> add button
[00:15] <valorie> but that's great!
[00:16] <valorie> as long as the text goes with discover, which...... I've never used
[00:16] <ahoneybun> missed it
[00:16] <valorie> boo on me
[00:16] <valorie> I'm used to muon package, so I use it
[00:16] <ahoneybun> same
[00:16] <valorie> and usually just use cli
[00:16] <valorie> again, boo on me
[00:17] <valorie> apachelogger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIBgoRiu3nk
[00:17] <juancarlospaco> It dont show up on the Dolphins Donwload new Service
[00:17] <juancarlospaco> :O
[00:20] <ahoneybun> valorie: fixed
[00:20] <ahoneybun> saving
[00:20] <ahoneybun> refresh
[00:21] <valorie> super!
[00:21] <valorie> everything shipshape
[00:22] <ahoneybun> why is kmail so hard for anything other then gmail
[00:22] <valorie> so hard?
[00:22] <ahoneybun> never can get outlook set up
[00:22] <valorie> ah
[00:22] <ahoneybun> not like profess outlook the one for normal people
[00:23] <valorie> well, it's been a long time since I had it successfully running
[00:23] <valorie> and I've never used outlook
[00:23] <valorie> even when I used windows
[00:23] <ahoneybun> outlook the email service not client
[00:23] <valorie> either one
[00:23] <ahoneybun> yea
[00:23] <valorie> well, all there was was hotmail, back then
[00:24] <valorie> haven't used windows in over 10 years
[00:24] <ahoneybun> I made one for the email aaronhoneycutt@outlook
[00:24] <ahoneybun> nice formal email for work
[00:24] <valorie> hotmail wouldn't give me my preferred email name, so I never used it
[00:24] <ahoneybun> or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>now :)
[00:24] <valorie> :-)
[00:24] <ahoneybun> so nice
[00:25] <valorie> I have valorie@kub and<EMAIL_ADDRESS>both
[00:25] <ahoneybun> I gave github that as my email
[00:25] <valorie> love 'em
[00:25] <ahoneybun> nice
[00:25] <valorie> gmail is valorie.zimmerman
[00:25] <ahoneybun> I kinda want to branch out into general kde
[00:25] <juancarlospaco> Ive uploaded  http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=162418  but it dont show up on the Dolphins Donwload new Service, why ?
[00:25] <valorie> for non-fossy stuff
[00:25] <ahoneybun> maybe help with bugs on media center
[00:26] <valorie> juancarlospaco: maybe it takes awhile for the cache to be renewed?
[00:26] <valorie> you might ask on #kde
[00:26] <juancarlospaco> ah, ok
[00:26] <juancarlospaco> no hurry
[00:26] <valorie> but kde-look isn't controlled by kde people
[00:26] <valorie> sadly
[00:27] <juancarlospaco> lol
[00:27] <valorie> which is why we're considering using bodega instead
[00:29] <ahoneybun> love wikihelp
[00:29] <juancarlospaco> I see, but I dont know if I can upload dolphin services menu there just yet
[00:29] <ahoneybun> ehow I mean
[00:29] <juancarlospaco> I got the bodega here
[00:29] <valorie> cool
[00:29] <ahoneybun> valorie: http://www.ehow.com/how_12074876_use-hotmail-kmail.html
[00:30] <valorie> it's not set up in any official way for KDE yet though
[00:35]  * juancarlospaco sudo wajig daily-upgrade
[00:36] <ahoneybun> valorie: so if a doc page as a contruction tag it means you are not going to have it translated yet>
[00:36] <valorie> right
[00:37] <valorie> the tool doesn't kick in until you remove that
[00:37] <ahoneybun> oh
[00:37] <ahoneybun> the home page can be translated
[00:38] <ahoneybun> almost
[00:39] <valorie> weeeeee
[00:39] <ahoneybun> if you want to double the page
[00:39] <valorie> double the page?
[00:40] <valorie> not sure what you mean
[00:40] <ahoneybun> then for link and spelling
[00:40] <ahoneybun> I might have messed something when I copied it over from moinmoin
[00:40] <ahoneybun> just want it to be great :)
[00:40] <valorie> which exact page are we discussing?
[00:40] <ahoneybun> http://userbase.kde.org/Kubuntu
[00:45] <valorie> ahoneybun: I removed all the periods, since some lines had them and some did not
[00:45] <valorie> if you like them, all lines should ahve 'em
[00:45] <ahoneybun> valorie: thanks
[00:46] <valorie> oh, we need category tags
[00:47] <valorie> look at some amarok handbook pages to see how that's done
[00:47] <ahoneybun> oh ok
[00:47] <valorie> good tagging helps immensely on keeping things up to date
[00:50] <valorie> ok, time for pizza
[00:50] <valorie> I'll be back in 3-4 hours
[00:51] <ahoneybun> nice
[00:51] <valorie> well, it's my night to visit my dad
[00:51] <valorie> I'm not scarfing pizza for hours
[00:51] <valorie> lol
[00:53] <soee> :< in trusty bumblebee performence is so low ..
[01:59] <ahoneybun> ppe1992
[03:04] <Guest45508> okay
[03:04] <Guest45508> okay
[03:05] <Guest45508> hi jjesse
[03:08] <Guest45508> oh well
[07:01] <unicodesnow> Hi, I missed a dependency for qtwebkit and that failed to build, causing kdewebkit to fail to build. I installed the missing dependency, and qtwebkit builds fine, but kdewebkit is still failing to build.
[07:04] <valorie> does it say why?
[07:05] <unicodesnow> Yes, says it's missing Qt5WebKitWidgetsConfig.cmake and qt5webkitwidgets-config.cmake
[07:05] <valorie> also, did you do a clean build?
[07:05] <unicodesnow> clean build of qt?
[07:05] <valorie> sometimes it helps to completely empty the build folder
[07:05] <unicodesnow> I did a clean build of kde stuff, but not qt (that took like a hour :()
[07:06] <valorie> after you build a dependency, you have to `make clean` or better, just empty the build folder and run your cmake line again
[07:07] <unicodesnow> do I need to do that for Qt, kdewebkit, or both?
[07:08] <valorie> whatever is failing to build
[07:08] <valorie> sorry to be the bearer of bad news
[07:08] <valorie> I would do that for kdewebkit for now
[07:09] <valorie> if Qt doesn't squawk, then fine
[07:09] <unicodesnow> ok thanks, it sure is a bit time consuming :P - I'm using the kdesrc-build script, I emptied the build folder.
[07:13] <valorie> cool
[07:13]  * valorie learned this lesson by experience
[07:13] <valorie> I've never built kde, but I do build amarok and sometimes phonon and/or the backends
[07:37] <unicodesnow> same error :(
[07:42] <unicodesnow> how do I clean qt?
[07:57] <unicodesnow> oh woha qtwebkit is still building.
[07:59] <valorie> errors are ok
[07:59] <valorie> sometimes
[08:04] <unicodesnow> the error is that it can't configure because it can't find QtWebKitWidgetsConfig.cmake, but I think that's cause qtwebkit is still building.
[08:05] <valorie> right
[08:05] <valorie> so you'll have to wait, and clean that folder as well
[08:06] <valorie> this is why xkcd has so many comics about "my code is compiling"
[11:09] <cortexA9> hello
[11:09] <cortexA9> Riddell
[11:09] <cortexA9> :)
[11:09] <cortexA9> testing the daily right now.
[11:12] <cortexA9> bbl
[11:27] <cortexA9> hello
[11:27] <cortexA9> Riddell: all good.
[11:27] <cortexA9> :)
[11:45] <unicodesnow> okay, I feel like giving up. does anyone have any clue on why kservice, kio, kdesignerplugin, kross, kde4support, kded, kjsembed, kde-workspace gives a make: *** [all] Error 2 a few % through the build?
[11:46] <yofel> not unless you post the full build log, that error means that there was a real error somewhere earlier in the log
[11:47] <unicodesnow> yofel: http://pastebin.kde.org/pzgmgfxsd
[11:49] <yofel> it's missing some docbook definitions. I don't know where those are in kf5 though :/
[11:49] <yofel> gotta run, bbl
[11:51] <unicodesnow> can i just rm the docs?
[11:53] <unicodesnow> meh i give up.
[13:01] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[14:12] <soee> bumblebee is broken in trusty ?
[15:29] <ahoneybun> Ping valorie
[16:14] <soee> hmm: http://pastebin.com/R4HNyiqY
[16:15] <soee> after switch to trusty
[16:15] <soee> its states in 3 lines: No Nvidia card found. If you really have an Optimus system,
[16:15] <soee> try selecting the Optimus setup in BIOS and run:
[16:15] <soee> sudo dpkg-reconfigure bumblebee-nvidia oO
[18:05] <manchicken> Dookie... creating a review board submission is turning out to be exactly nowhere as straight forward as I had hoped.
[18:06] <manchicken> It looks like only kde and amarok repos are accepting submissions.
[18:09] <manchicken> And I'm out of time. I've gotta shower and get ready to do some stuff... oh well. I sent a message to the mailing list, hopefully I can get an answer that way.
[18:10] <Riddell> jose: yo
[18:12] <Riddell> valorie: did you review his work?
[20:52] <jose> Riddell: hey, she did, I'm waiting for it to be Monday so I can poke IS
[20:53] <jose> I may be a bit slow on that as my laptop screen broke yesterday and I'm on a mobile connection
[21:43] <debfx> ScottK: how is the quassel security update coming along?
[22:03] <Quintasan> \o
[22:04] <Quintasan> ovidiu-florin: ping
[23:06] <valorie> acceptable, Riddell?
[23:08] <valorie> I had him fix the problems I could see, and get the fix ready for IS to relink the broken photo links, or whatever they have to do
[23:57] <ahoneybun> Hello
[23:58] <soee> hiho
[23:59] <ahoneybun> Hey soee


[00:35] <sophie-w> Today:
[00:35] <sophie-w> - Event local positions take 2: https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2948
[00:35] <sophie-w> - Context switching back to CI & python
 "Specifically: there's an..." <- Looking at compositor support there, it's not very wide ;D
[06:34] <Saviq> AIUI fractional-scale is just hints, using viewporter under the hood anyway. Not sure how could clients do the trick without knowing the desired fractional scale ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (Ref. [#2599](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2599))
 "Looking at compositor support..." <- > <@saviq:matrix.org> Looking at compositor support there, it's not very wide ;D
[08:22] <RAOF> >
[08:22] <RAOF> > AIUI fractional-scale is just hints, using viewporter under the hood anyway. Not sure how could clients do the trick without knowing the desired fractional scale ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (Ref. [#2599](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2599))
[08:22] <RAOF> Actually, even *using* the fractional scale protocol it's not entirely clear how clients would do the trick. Unless you assume that any client using `wp_viewporter` is rendering at the "correct" size and shouldn't get scaled by the compositor.
[08:23] <RAOF> (Although that makes the interaction with wl_surface.set_buffer_scale kinda weird?)
[08:24] <RAOF> Anyway...
[08:27] <RAOF> Today:
[08:27] <RAOF> - Renamed `DumbDisplayProvider` / `DumbFB` / `DumbBuffer` -> 'CPUAccessible*`, where not technically required ("dumb buffers" are visible in the KMS API)
[08:27] <RAOF> - Started fixing the probing issue on X11 by removing a `TODO` in the `DefaultDisplayBufferCompositorFactory` (so the `GLRenderingProvider` can to be selected on a per-output basis, which coincidentally gets us the necessary probing)
[08:27] <RAOF> - Resolved an ongoing SRU discussion
[08:27] <RAOF>  * Today:
[08:27] <RAOF> - Renamed `DumbDisplayProvider` / `DumbFB` / `DumbBuffer` -> `CPUAccessible\*\`, where not technically required ("dumb buffers" are visible in the KMS API)
[08:27] <RAOF> - Started fixing the probing issue on X11 by removing a `TODO` in the `DefaultDisplayBufferCompositorFactory` (so the `GLRenderingProvider` can to be selected on a per-output basis, which coincidentally gets us the necessary probing)
[08:27] <RAOF> - Resolved an ongoing SRU discussion
[08:27] <RAOF>  * Today:
[08:27] <RAOF> - Renamed `DumbDisplayProvider` / `DumbFB` / `DumbBuffer` -> `CPUAccessible*`, where not technically required ("dumb buffers" are visible in the KMS API)
[08:27] <RAOF> - Started fixing the probing issue on X11 by removing a `TODO` in the `DefaultDisplayBufferCompositorFactory` (so the `GLRenderingProvider` can to be selected on a per-output basis, which coincidentally gets us the necessary probing)
[08:27] <RAOF> - Resolved an ongoing SRU discussion
[08:28] <RAOF> Also, I see we have agenda items on the doc, so will show up to the next meeting (although I think we were due to show up Monday anyway?)
[08:28] <RAOF> EOW 🎉
[08:29] <Saviq> RAOF: Yeah, retro / demo / planning time (reminder: I'm off, but as agreed didn't want to throw you a Friday night meet)
[08:31] <RAOF>  * Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/c42af86ce444278fca38827f97cd454680e3cafb>)
[08:31] <RAOF>  * Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/c796e94331279d284feb66cf7572dd38d4da69a7>)
[09:22] <Saviq> Gah. How do I portably get from a /sys/devices/… path to a /dev/dri/… one 👿
[09:25] <RAOF> I think there's a device symlink somewhere in the tree?
[09:29]  * Saviq sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/13be7126aaf1d37dc11d5cd852f6ca959896752b
[09:30] <Saviq> `dev` has `<major>:<minor>`, but that doesn't exist here :P
[09:32] <RAOF> The dev file in that tree has major:minor? 'Cause you should be able to find the /dev/dri/card? from that.
[09:33] <Saviq> Yeah, but dev doesn't exist in a PCI tree here ;)
[09:33] <Saviq> So again, not portably…
[09:34] <Saviq> There's this:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/8667450f13ebc7e7e37ea680c008cd55291cb9f6>)
[09:34] <Saviq> But obviously not (easily) workable for Pi:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/807124b286e8703d1246cb29cf5e1f58af8adf0c>)
[09:35] <Saviq> But looks completely different on Pi:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/eb49f847dd392eed2dece1faafc3deb8e5de5ffb>)
[09:35] <Saviq> s///
[09:36] <Saviq> FWIW the device paths are:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/5fab5916c83870cc1dbe2a4aea54fbd2d81d3942>)
[09:38] <Saviq> I'll need to speak to udev probably
[09:40] <Saviq> Saviq: Except udev also isn't helpful 🤦♂
[09:41] <alan_g[m]> I'm not sure why you want to do this: might there be another way to solve the motivating problem?
[09:41] <Saviq> On Pi, it does have DEVLINKS, which point at the by-paths path, but on i915, does not.
[09:41] <RAOF> There is a drm API for enumerating devices, but that's probably not helpful?
[09:43] <Saviq> alan_g[m]: Writing the checkbox tests, I get the `/sys` path per GPU, and wanted to run `drm_info` and `kmscube` per GPU. But those two take `/dev/dri` paths as arguments.
[09:45] <Saviq> Anyway, I'll manage, will start from /dev/dri rather than the other way around
[09:45] <Saviq> And can see now why it's a different tree - on i915 there can be multiple cards, in fact, as far as drm is concerned
[09:46] <Saviq> As you were. </rant>
[09:48] <RAOF> Saviq: Wat?
[09:48] <RAOF> * Wat?!
[09:49] <RAOF> Multiple cards per device in sysfs, or multiple devices in sysfs per /dev/dri/card?
[09:49] <Saviq> Per sysfs
[09:50] <RAOF> :blobcat_confused:
[09:50] <Saviq> So there's a `…/drm/card0` here, and that's where the `dev` with `<major>:<minor>` lives
[09:51] <Saviq> Anyway. Udev's already done all that logic for me, and I can ask it for details by /dev/dri paths
[15:58] <sophie-w> Just a reminder that if miriway-unsnap gets too unwieldy my overengineered solution still exists https://github.com/wmww/snap-out
[16:00] <alan_g[m]> sophie-w: I know. I did try that, but it didn't work straight away (I forget why now) and fixing looked hard
[16:06] <sophie-w> shrug well, if you do run into any more issues feel free to report them. Other than the dependency issue I fixed a couple years ago I haven't seen any problems with it.
[16:09] <alan_g[m]> Like you said it was overengineered for what I needed (and didn't do what I wanted). Was quicker to write miriway-unsnap. (Feel free to propose an improvement)
[16:30] <Saviq> 🕡 Today:
[16:30] <Saviq> - Looked into syncing JIRA ↔ GH, have something to apply in due time
[16:30] <Saviq> - Got drm-info and kmscube working in a checkbox provider reliably across platforms (x86, Pi)
[16:30] <Saviq> - Found a way to include X-requiring tools (`vdpauinfo`, `vkcube`…) in checkbox, will integrate those next
[16:41] <Saviq> 👋
[16:42] <alan_g[m]> Bye, have a good break!
[16:46] <alan_g[m]> Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/d3d35932fb42012300ba7ee75a12508b45d1286c>)


[00:14] <glitchd> hello all, looking for a bit of help getting vlc to work correctly.
[00:19] <Kumool> glitchd: use mpv instead
[00:19] <Kumool> vlc is terrible
[00:21] <glitchd> thanks, but id rather stick with vlc
[00:21] <Kumool> vlc tries to do everything, ends up failing at everything
[00:21] <Kumool> its a general rule
[00:21] <Kumool> browsers as well
[00:22] <glitchd> not in all the time that ive used it
[00:22] <glitchd> this is the first real issue ive had
[00:22] <Kumool> so whats the issue
[00:22] <Kumool> ask that instead
[00:22] <glitchd> it plays basically everything and is lightweight
[00:22] <glitchd> lol
[00:22] <glitchd> right on
[00:22] <Kumool> its not lightweight
[00:22] <Kumool> but hey, if you like it
[00:23] <glitchd> the issue is that either it opens but doesnt show on the screen, or it opens and the interface is unusable because its super-sied on my screen.
[00:23] <glitchd> *super-sized
[00:23] <glitchd> actually dont even worry about it, im about to reinstall anyways, so ill deal with it when i get back to this point.
[00:23] <glitchd> thx anyhow
[00:24] <Kumool> super sized?
[00:24] <Kumool> mmm
[00:24] <glitchd> the gui is extremely oversized
[00:24] <Kumool> xfce does remember window dimensions
[00:24] <glitchd> so much so that i can access any of the controls, and if i go clicking around on it, it just crashes
[00:24] <Kumool> have you tried resizing?
[00:25] <Kumool> ah
[00:25] <glitchd> yes i have, i can only resize it so small before it stops letting my resize it, but even then its wildly oversized
[00:25] <glitchd> not just the window is huge, all the parts of the gui itself or rediculously huge
[00:26] <glitchd> but yea im gonna reinstall and hope for a change
[02:31] <glitchd> Kumool, so i figured it out
[02:31] <glitchd> Kumool, its a qt annoyance basically
[02:32] <glitchd> Kumool, to have it launch in the correct size and aspect ratio, i have to use this command: QT_AUTO_SCREEN_SCALE_FACTOR=0 vlc
[09:20] <xubuntu84w> hi
[09:21] <xubuntu84w> want help on requirements
[09:21] <xubuntu84w> i want to replace fedora 9 and file, mail, print servers from a network LAN
[09:21] <xubuntu84w> with Xubuntu
[09:22] <xubuntu84w> I have pentium 1 GHz and 1 gb RAM machines
[09:23] <xubuntu84w> hello
[09:24] <xubuntu84w> \O/
[09:39] <Spass> I wanted to change the text file coding from WINDOWS-1250 to UTF-8, seems like Mousepad lacks that feature?
[09:41] <well_laid_lawn> Spass:  I think that would be a system wide setting not just in mousepad
[09:42] <well_laid_lawn> or mousepad uses the system wide setting
[09:42] <Spass> Leafpad can do that without a problem using "Save as", then I can choose a specific coding for the file
[09:44] <well_laid_lawn> yes I had it wrong - it's what the file is already encoded as that counts
[09:46] <Spass> it's not important, but too bad Mousepad lacks that feature, anyway, I'll use Geany (or Leafpad) for that purpose
[09:46] <well_laid_lawn> I use leafpad
[09:47] <well_laid_lawn> easier to set the tab width
[09:53] <Spass> yeah, I was using Leafpad before, maybe I should go back
[09:58] <Spass> seems like Leafpad has it's own issue on 18.04, it doesn't work with "pkexec" out of the box
[09:58] <Spass> I guess I'd need to manually some policies
[10:12] <diogenes_> Spass, what about: pkexec env DISPLAY=$DISPLAY XAUTHORITY=$XAUTHORITY leafpad /etc/environment
[10:14] <Spass> not sure, Leafpad is no longer on my system ;) got back to Mousepad, I'll use Geany to change the file coding when needed (so not too often)
[13:08] <ubu> I'm trying to learn how to get rid of systemd.
[15:26] <Adab> Hello , i have installed xubuntu in my new pc (dell G3 ) , my OS did not detect my hdmi port , can any one helps me ?
[15:33] <diogenes_> Adab, could you pastebin: inxi -F
[16:49] <aaksjdhjasdj> Hello
[16:50] <aaksjdhjasdj> Is it ohkay to switch to the development version of Xubuntu for normal usage
[16:51] <aaksjdhjasdj> The packages are bit out-dated :(
[16:54] <brainwash> aaksjdhjasdj: if you have to ask that, probably no
[16:55] <brainwash> are you using 19.04 right now?
[16:55] <brainwash> if yes, you will be able to upgrade to 19.10 in like a month
[16:56] <aaksjdhjasdj> brainwash I'm using 18.04 Actually
[16:58] <aaksjdhjasdj> Or else what's your usual method of getting up-to-date packages. lnstfalling build dependencies consumes a lot of space and time.
[17:00] <brainwash> depends on what you want to have up-to-date
[17:00] <aaksjdhjasdj> Hmm, well. text-editors and browsers atleast
[17:01] <aaksjdhjasdj> Rest all can still be managed. And PPAs aren't that trustworthy right.
[17:01] <brainwash> web browsers should be on the latest version anyway
[17:01] <brainwash> due to security reasons
[17:02] <brainwash> PPAs are managed by 3rd parties, yes
[17:02] <swift110> sup folks
[17:02] <swift110> Client: HexChat 2.14.2 • OS: Ubuntu "bionic" 18.04 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU         T5600  @ 1.83GHz (1.83GHz) • Memory: Physical: 2.9 GiB Total (1.3 GiB Free) Swap: 2.0 GiB Total (2.0 GiB Free) • Storage: 0 bytes / 0 bytes (0 bytes Free) • Uptime: 9m 20s
[17:03] <brainwash> aaksjdhjasdj: however, often the developers directly offer a PPA
[17:03] <aaksjdhjasdj> Some of them, and some of them don't
[17:04] <brainwash> that is how it is
[17:04] <aaksjdhjasdj> Anyways, I'll try out the development branch
[17:04] <brainwash> good luck with that
[17:05] <aaksjdhjasdj> Just was curious to know if anyone uses it as a daily driver
[17:05] <brainwash> it's not my main system, but I do use it for development
[17:06] <brainwash> you'll get many package updates on a daily basis
[17:06] <brainwash> especially if you install a wide range of software
[17:06] <brainwash> different toolkits and so on
[17:09] <aaksjdhjasdj> I just try it out then.


[14:18] <tjaalton> alan_g: hi, perhaps best to discuss mesa/vulkan here
[14:18] <tjaalton> the build issue
[14:18] <alan_g> tjaalton: sure
[14:18] <tjaalton> ../../../src/intel/vulkan/anv_wsi_mir.c:28:10: error: no previous prototype for ‘anv_GetPhysicalDeviceMirPresentationSupportKHR’ [-Werror=missing-prototypes]
[14:18] <tjaalton>  VkBool32 anv_GetPhysicalDeviceMirPresentationSupportKHR(
[14:18] <tjaalton> and then another for anv_CreateMirSurfaceKHR
[14:18] <tjaalton> this is weird, since the includes should be fine
[14:19] <tjaalton> i've just pushed ubuntu+1 branch to alioth git
[14:19] <tjaalton> https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-xorg/lib/mesa.git that is
[14:21] <alan_g> tjaalton: this isn't code I've ever touched. Can I see the error on Zesty, or do do I need Artful?
[14:22] <tjaalton> you need mesa 17.1
[14:22] <tjaalton> so, this branch
[14:23] <tjaalton> builds on zesty too, though you'd need newer libdrm
[14:23] <tjaalton> which you can get from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/ubuntu/updates
[14:26] <alan_g> tjaalton: ack. (I'll start by browsing the source then)
[14:27] <tjaalton> well the mir patches aren't applied to the source
[14:27] <tjaalton> if you mean browsing cgit
[14:28] <alan_g> ah
[14:33] <alan_g> where do I find the patch?
[14:33] <tjaalton> debian/patches
[14:35] <alan_g> I'm misunderstanding - not debian/patches/07_gallium-fix-build-failure-on-powerpcspe.diff I'm sure
[14:36] <tjaalton> vulkan-mir.patch
[14:36] <tjaalton> but you need to apply the rest fist
[14:36] <tjaalton> first
[14:36] <tjaalton> series tells the order
[14:37] <alan_g> $ find debian/patches
[14:37] <alan_g> debian/patches
[14:37] <alan_g> debian/patches/series
[14:37] <alan_g> debian/patches/07_gallium-fix-build-failure-on-powerpcspe.diff
[14:37] <tjaalton> did you clone it?
[14:38] <alan_g> yes
[14:38] <tjaalton> git checkout ubuntu+01
[14:38] <tjaalton> er
[14:38] <tjaalton> ubuntu+1
[14:38] <tjaalton> you're on debian-unstable :)
[14:38] <tjaalton> add -b
[14:38] <tjaalton> no
[14:38] <tjaalton> sorry
[14:38] <tjaalton> just 'git checkout ubuntu+1' should do I think
[14:39] <alan_g> tjaalton: that's it.
[14:40] <tjaalton> then use quilt push -a
[14:40] <tjaalton> to patch the source
[14:40] <tjaalton> pop -a to unpatch
[14:56] <alan_g> Sorry, not familiar with quilt. It says: "No series file found" - how do I tell it where the patches are?
[14:56] <bschaefer> in my ~/.quiltrc
[14:56] <bschaefer> QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches
[14:58] <alan_g> "$ QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches quilt push -a" seems to work
[14:59] <bschaefer> yeah it should, just like to not have to manually set that path each time haha
[15:03] <bschaefer> i also have this in my quiltrc :) QUILT_REFRESH_ARGS="-p ab --no-timestamps --no-index"
[16:12] <alan_g> tjaalton: (Sorry, got sidetracked) The compiler is right that there's no prototype for the functions. But I need to do a bit of digging to determine if that's actually an issue.
[16:38] <alan_g> Hmm there's vkGetPhysicalDeviceMirPresentationSupportKHR declared in a header (and some xml) but no implementation.
[17:03] <tjaalton> alan_g: i checked how it's done for wayland, and couldn't see where it differs :/