[00:07] <RAOF> jamalta: tty1 doesn't have a session bus; the session bus is started by (gnome-session?  Or our X11 startup things?) and the address stored in an env variable.
[00:07] <jamalta> RAOF: so if i set that env variable with the address in tty1, would it be able to communicate over that dbus session?
[00:08] <jamalta> I'm trying to start compiz from tty1, because I can't do anything in my gnome-session when compiz crashes
[00:08] <RAOF> I think so, yes.
[00:08] <jamalta> Thanks! I'll have to play with that later then...
[00:08] <RAOF> jamalta: The other option is to enable byoubu and start a gnome-terminal in your session.
[00:09] <RAOF> That way screen is started up, tty1 logs into the screen, and you've got all the appropriate env variables pre-set.
[00:09] <RAOF> That's what I do.
[00:09] <jamalta> Ah, right.. that's an even better approach.
[00:09] <jamalta> Thanks! :)
[00:10] <jamalta> The way I had dealt with it up to now, was by loading compiz from tty1 and trying to reload compiz from gnome-session before it crashed due to the dbus plugin … awful approach but it worked decently most of the time.
[00:10] <jamalta> It's annoying when compiz crashes on load
[00:22] <TheMuso> I personally go to a tty and run metacity with the DISPLAY env set, but RAOF's suggestion is the best of the lot.
[00:48] <jono> TheMuso, hey
[00:48] <jono> haven't caught up since UDS
[00:49] <jono> how is the accessibility work going?
[00:49] <TheMuso> jono: Slowly but surely. I have had a lot to learn, and things are still very much in the design phase.
[00:49] <jono> TheMuso, ahhh cool
[00:49] <jono> what is the current state of the work?
[00:51] <TheMuso> Design phase pretty much, working out exactly how we are going to make the launcher accessible at this point.
[00:53] <jamalta> TheMuso: running metacity creates a dbus session?
[00:54] <TheMuso> jamalta: No, running metacity allows you to get control of your gui session again, at which point you can run compiz --replace
[00:54] <jamalta> I was setting the DISPLAY env variable to be able to run compiz, but it would crash after about 5-10 seconds because it couldn't talk to dbus
[00:54] <jamalta> Ohhh
[00:54] <jamalta> Right right, that makes sense.. compiz doesn't run on top of metacity.. it replaces it.
[00:55] <jamalta> So if I'd like to start helping out with Unity, what is something I can work on?
[00:55] <jamalta> I started playing around with a bug a week or so ago, but didn't notice that it had been resolved (or was being worked on) by someone else in a separate branch.. so I wanted to ask instead of picking out a bug that may be resolved or in the process of being resolved.
[01:03] <DBO> RAOF, you here?
[01:03] <RAOF> DBO: Yup.
[01:04] <RAOF> Word up?
[01:04] <DBO> RAOF, is sibling window stacking enforced by window managers or X?
[01:06] <RAOF> Off the top of my head I don't know.
[01:07] <DBO> RAOF, how can I find out? :)
[01:08] <RAOF> What do you mean by “enforced” in this case, too?
[01:09] <DBO> does X force those windows to be stacked sequentially
[01:09] <DBO> or does it just hint the window manager to "please respect the stacking these windows have requested, with a cherry on top, please"
[01:09] <DBO> in other words, is it reliable :P
[01:10] <RAOF> Well, X *has* to know the stacking order because it has to draw the windows in the right order.
[01:12] <DBO> RAOF, right but when I call XConfigureWindow
[01:12] <RAOF> But that's not neccessarily what you're asking.
[01:12] <DBO> and set a window to have a sibling window
[01:12] <DBO> does X enforce the sibling window stacking mode you set
[01:12] <DBO> or is it just hinted to the window manager?
[01:14] <RAOF> Let me do a quick grep.
[01:14] <DBO> RAOF, I appreciate you giving me help here :)
[01:52] <RAOF> DBO: Ok.  It looks like the sibling window stacking is encoded in the order of the list of sibling windows; calls like XCirculateSubwindows will alter this order.
[01:52] <DBO> so in other words
[01:53] <DBO> I can rely on siblings windows being stacked together
[01:53] <RAOF> I think so, yes.
[01:54] <DBO> RAOF, wonderful news
[01:54] <DBO> you are a gentleman and a scholar
[04:19] <smspillaz> DBO: are you calling XConfigureWindow on the nux window or it's parent?
[04:19] <smspillaz> DBO: if you call it on the nux window I don't know if it will work
[04:22] <DBO> smspillaz, I am not calling it at all
[04:22] <DBO> you are going to be the one calling it
[04:22] <smspillaz> right
[04:22] <smspillaz> I'll figure that out as soon as I get a chance then
[04:22] <DBO> awesome
[04:22] <DBO> you're reliable
[04:22] <DBO> I like that
[04:23] <smspillaz> I just seem to recall the sibling stuff not working in compiz++ but maybe this was because I was calling it with child windows and not parent ones
[04:23] <smspillaz> in which case we'll need to make sure the windows are stacked correctly from the unityshell plugin itself
[04:23] <smspillaz> (since obviously the parent is not supposed to be accessible by clients)
[04:26] <smspillaz> DBO: also, I'm supposed to be reliable?
[04:28] <DBO> smspillaz, well modestly
[04:29] <DBO> smspillaz, you're in law school so I figure you should only be working double overtime
[04:32] <smspillaz> thanks
[04:48] <ssj6akshat> so, is http://www.canonical.com/engineering-services/certification/application-packaging
[04:48] <ssj6akshat> for getting applications into software center?
[05:01] <DBO> smspillaz, so reparenting in compiz
[05:01] <DBO> does it happen when I map a window
[05:01] <DBO> what if I unmap then remap a window?
[05:05] <smspillaz> DBO: the window is reparented on create
[05:05] <smspillaz> so it always has a parent
[05:05] <smspillaz> if you unmap all the children of a window, it will also unmap the parent
[05:06] <DBO> smspillaz, so it will reparent even before the first map?
[05:07] <smspillaz> yes I believe so
[05:07] <smspillaz> let me check the code
[05:07] <DBO> please
[05:07] <smspillaz> DBO: actually the behaviour will change soon anways
[05:07] <DBO> to?
[05:07] <DBO> because the current behavior breaks if you are an app
[05:08] <DBO> and you create a window, map it, and do a grab on it really fast
[05:08] <smspillaz> DBO: I want to change it so that the reparent happens on CreateNotify (before a CompWindow even gets created) so that there is no epileptic fit
[05:08] <DBO> because you get all that done before compiz reparents it
[05:08] <DBO> which breaks the grab
[05:08] <smspillaz> exactly
[05:08] <smspillaz> we are reparenting too late
[05:08] <smspillaz> it just requires some core work
[05:08] <smspillaz> and it has been on my TODO list for a while
[05:08] <smspillaz> but I have all this other stuff to get done too
[05:08] <DBO> its causing more work now for us all
[05:09] <smspillaz> wait for the first ConfigureNotify and then do your grab
[05:09] <smspillaz> I don't like reorganizing my priorities while I am working on things since it casues me to scatterbrain and not get stuff done
[05:09] <smspillaz> (sorry to be blunt at that)
[05:11] <DBO> no problem
[05:11] <DBO> we are going to change how we make windows
[05:11] <DBO> basically create early, map later
[05:11] <DBO> map/grab later
[05:12] <smspillaz> yeah
[05:12] <smspillaz> BTW the reparenting stuff works like this:
[05:12] <smspillaz> -> CreateNotify -> if mapped, then reparent, otherwise wait for map
[05:12] <smspillaz> it should be CreateNotify -> reparent
[05:13] <smspillaz> reading man XReparentWindow I can see how broken the old behaviour is
[05:13] <smspillaz> "If the specified window is mapped, XReparentWindow() automatically performs an UnmapWindow request on it, removes it from its current position in the hierarchy, and inserts it as the child of the specified parent. The window is placed in the stacking order on top with respect to sibling windows. "
[05:13] <smspillaz> DBO: so it's just like
[05:14] <smspillaz> DBO: create -> map -> reparent -> unmap -> map
[05:14] <smspillaz> no wonder bamf was going batshit at you
[05:14] <DBO> yes
[05:14] <DBO> that explains so much shit
[05:14] <smspillaz> I'll need to sit down and fix it at some point
[05:14] <smspillaz> just after I get this decoration stuff working
[05:15] <DBO> smspillaz, thank you
[05:15] <smspillaz> hyperair is going to kill me for not fixing his bugs
[05:15] <smspillaz> or at least for pushing his bugs down my FIFO stack
[05:16] <hyperair> rawr
[05:16] <hyperair> =p
[05:16] <hyperair> oh i won't kill you, don't worry
[05:16] <hyperair> i still need you to fix my bugs, see
[05:16] <TheMuso> lol
[05:16] <DBO> hyperair, what happened to your DBO worshiping ways?
[05:17] <smspillaz> what does DBO even stand for?
[05:17] <DBO> DeeBeeOh
[05:17] <smspillaz> DemigodBigObject?
[05:17] <smspillaz> ahh damn ;-)
[05:17] <smspillaz> DBO: and what does DeeBeeOh stand for ;-)
[05:18] <DBO> DBO
[05:18]  * smspillaz asplode
[05:18] <spikeb> recursive recursiveness
[05:18] <smspillaz> "smspillaz" is just actually my old nickname
[05:18] <smspillaz> well "spillaz"
[05:18] <smspillaz> if you pronounce it in australia
[05:18] <smspillaz> *n
[05:19] <DBO> Fosters fosters fosters barby fosters
[05:19] <smspillaz> which kind of might translate to "spillers"
[05:19] <smspillaz> except that the "ers" kind of sounds like "eehhhh-arrrr-z"
[05:20] <smspillaz> DBO: lol
[05:20] <smspillaz> DBO: you know that we don't have Fosters right?
[05:21] <DBO> its australian for beer
[05:21] <smspillaz> yeah I know
[05:21] <smspillaz> we don't have it
[05:21] <smspillaz> well the brand anyways
[05:21] <hyperair> DBO: hmm? what DBO worshiping ways?
[05:21] <DBO> hyperair, dont pretend like you dont love me
[05:21] <DBO> I KNOW YOU
[05:21] <smspillaz> sounds like the creepy conversations my stalkerfriend used to have with me
[05:23] <hyperair> DBO: heheh great to know that i'm known. =p
[05:24] <spikeb> i tried out unity on natty yesterday :)
[05:24] <DBO> im so sorry
[05:24] <spikeb> or was it hte day before? anyways.
[05:24] <DBO> are you okay?
[05:24] <hyperair> O_o
[05:24]  * spikeb was impressed
[05:24] <hyperair> sorry if i'm not making sense at the moment, but my latency is on the order of a few seconds at the moment.
[05:25] <DBO> do you need a hug?
[05:25] <hyperair> ._.
[05:25]  * smspillaz could use a hug
[05:25] <hyperair> i don't need a hug
[05:25] <DBO> spikeb, the launcher is mostly my baby this cycle
[05:25] <DBO> I think its coming along well
[05:25] <hyperair> i could use a good internet connection
[05:25] <DBO> smspillaz, hugs are for winners!
[05:25] <spikeb> DBO, you're doing excellent work.
[05:25]  * smspillaz gave out free hugs at university one day
[05:26] <DBO> spikeb, launcher and compiz integration with sam doing a massive portion of helping on the second part
[05:26] <smspillaz> s/massive/small/
[05:26] <smspillaz> also why does everyone call me "sam" and not smspillaz ?
[05:26] <spikeb> i like what i see so far, lets hope they gave you guys enough time to pull it together
[05:27] <DBO> I think we can
[05:27] <smspillaz> they gave us plenty of time
[05:27] <DBO> smspillaz, well on the canonical servers becuase you broke tab complete by having your clone there
[05:27] <DBO> smspillaz, and here becuase I get used to the canonical servers
[05:27] <smspillaz> DBO: oh right, I need to kill him
[05:28] <smspillaz> oh here's a mindfsck question for you
[05:28] <DBO> probably
[05:28] <smspillaz> ok, so say I had a brain cloning device and I could clone your brain onto njpatel's and njpatel's on to yours
[05:28] <smspillaz> which one do you kill
[05:28] <smspillaz> (they drilled us in this on philosophy)
[05:29]  * smspillaz grumbles and gets back to coding
[05:29] <smspillaz> (the answer is done of them because you are both dudes)
[05:29] <smspillaz> *none
[05:30] <hyperair> strange philosophy
[05:30] <DBO> you mean my mentality is in njpatel, and his in mine?
[05:30] <DBO> and one of us must die?
[05:30] <smspillaz> yes
[05:30] <smspillaz> ye
[05:30] <smspillaz> s
[05:30] <smspillaz> it was the memory identity theory
[05:30] <smspillaz> stupid stupid
[05:30] <smspillaz> argh I hated that unit so much
[05:30] <DBO> the solution is obviously best resolved by a death match
[05:31] <DBO> the self correcting nature of the universe will see to it that those who need to die, in fact die
[05:31] <DBO> I guess thats dangerously close to what the germans were going on about 70 years ago, but lets not argue over details
[05:32] <smspillaz> it is
[05:32] <smspillaz> how did we even get on this topic anyways?
[05:33] <DBO> Godwins law clearly states that the likelihood of the discussion of nazi's increases as the length of the discussion itself does
[05:33] <smspillaz> AH yes!
[05:33] <DBO> we were just, well, godwin'd
[05:33] <smspillaz> DBO: I adjudicate high school debating and I know this one well
[05:33] <smspillaz> I have a little running tally for how long it takes for students to start making appeals to nazy germany in their argument
[05:33] <DBO> ah yes teh good ol "NO YOU'RE A NAZI" club
[05:34] <smspillaz> that or soviet russia
[05:34] <DBO> never take the soviet russia approach
[05:34] <DBO> "In soviet russia, debate wins you" == debate over
[05:34] <smspillaz> I'm going to use that the next time I run an argument
[06:26] <kvalo> morning
[06:26] <smspillaz> morning all
[06:28] <coz_> its definitly morening here  1:30 am
[06:28] <kvalo> coz_: hehe :)
[06:28] <coz_> :)
[06:29] <TheMuso> Yay, patch piloting done for one month for me... Although I am back on next week. :)
[07:33] <didrocks> good morning
[07:33] <smspillaz> morning
[07:34] <didrocks> hey smspillaz, how are you?
[07:35] <kvalo> didrocks: good morning
[07:35] <didrocks> good morning kvalo!
[07:44] <smspillaz> didrocks: alllrighty :) Just working on this metacity stuff
[07:44] <smspillaz> I seem to have finally got my head around how the metacity theme stuff works
[07:44] <smspillaz> it's quite sophisticated
[07:46] <didrocks> smspillaz: oh nice!
[07:46] <didrocks> smspillaz: so, you will wrote a documentation ? :)
[07:46] <smspillaz> hahahaha
[07:46] <smspillaz> maybe ;-)
[07:46] <smspillaz> isn't there documentation for how to write metacity themes already?
[07:47] <smspillaz> didrocks: at least right now I have it parsing my new properties and filling some structs
[07:50]  * smspillaz really hates the gnome coding style though
[07:50] <smspillaz> the code and braces are too close to each other
[07:51] <didrocks> smspillaz: yeah, for metacity themes, there are some
[07:52] <didrocks> smspillaz: oh nice :)
[07:52] <didrocks> and gnome coding style is better than X one :)
[07:52] <didrocks> (ok, that was just for the troll)
[07:52] <didrocks> but yeah, the 2 spaces in front of the braces is quite disturbing, I tend to agree
[07:52] <smspillaz> didrocks: yeah, it's interesting since the parser assumes that every tag will have subtags
[07:53] <smspillaz> so I had it doing weird things for a while until I implemented some "parse subtags" functions which just returned and made sure there were no subtags
[07:53] <smspillaz> hi dbarth
[07:54] <didrocks> smspillaz: ahah, nice trick :)
[07:54] <didrocks> smspillaz: oh btw, I found another bug in your cmake in compiz :)
[07:54] <didrocks> (again a COMPIZDESTDIR vs DESTDIR)
[07:55] <smspillaz> feel free to commit a patch then
[07:55] <didrocks> smspillaz: well, it's quite tricky in fact, and I'm not impacted as we just got on make install some perm error (it tries to install in /usr/share…)
[07:56] <didrocks> smspillaz: so, I think we should have a look at removing COMPIZDESTDIR in the futur, simply
[07:56] <didrocks> and just cope with DESTDIR
[07:56] <didrocks> I'm sure there is a way :)
[07:56] <smspillaz> didrocks: indeed
[07:56] <smspillaz> didrocks: I only added COMPIZ_DESTDIR because DESTDIR wasn't working
[07:56] <didrocks> smspillaz: well, it's working for most cases until you need to know where DESTDIR is :)
[07:57] <didrocks> smspillaz: I'm sure someone else got that issue too, we'll have a look later
[07:57] <smspillaz> didrocks: env${DESTDIR} ?
[07:57] <smspillaz> well actually, no that won't work will it
[07:57] <didrocks> smspillaz: doesn't work, I was thinking that at well at first glancec
[07:57] <didrocks> but it's replaced and not kept in the generated MakeFile
[07:57] <didrocks> what we need is variable kept "as is"
[07:58] <smspillaz> yeah
[07:58] <didrocks> I don't have enough CMake foo yet :)
[07:58] <smspillaz> I believe this discussion was had in the cmake circles and it needs to be implemented up there
[07:58] <didrocks> let's trap agateau in Dallas somewhere and have a deeper look :)
[07:58] <didrocks> smspillaz: I'm mostly sure it should be somewhere in the documentation…
[07:58] <didrocks> that will be weird if not implemented…
[07:58] <didrocks> would*
[07:59] <didrocks> I can imagine ton of cases when we need it :)
[08:09] <MacSlow> greetings everybody
[08:14] <kamstrup> MacSlow: hi
[08:14] <kamstrup> good morning everyone
[08:14] <MacSlow> hey kamstrup
[08:16] <MacSlow> kamstrup, do you happen to have the issue that no launcher-icons (except for the desktop-switcher) show up?
[08:16] <kamstrup> MacSlow: no it works fine here
[08:16] <kamstrup> MacSlow: sounds like a bamf issue?
[08:17] <MacSlow> kamstrup, ever since yesterday afternoon I've that.
[08:17] <MacSlow> yeah... that's what I think too
[08:22] <kvalo> kamstrup: good morning
[08:23] <kvalo> kamstrup: any chance you could review two merge requests again? https://code.launchpad.net/indicator-network/+activereviews
[08:23] <kamstrup> kvalo: sure, I actually just opened the diff before you pinged me :-)
[08:23] <kvalo> kamstrup: awesome :)
[08:24] <kvalo> kamstrup: due to a connman upgrade I need to create a new release today
[08:25] <kvalo> kamstrup: as you will find out soon, there's an API break in connman
[08:56] <njpatel> didrocks, Hey, I'm just reviewing branches that were put up by the guys last night then I'll cut a release. Sound good?
[08:57] <didrocks> njpatel: awesome dude!
[08:57] <didrocks> njpatel: there is still a nux branch somewhere, I'm not sure to have the time to review it, if you can do it, ,please :)
[08:57] <didrocks> (the bmp -> png)
[08:58] <njpatel> didrocks, yep, will do
[08:59] <njpatel> smspillaz, did you have a chance to look at this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/676096 ?
[09:11] <smspillaz> njpatel: yes it is fixed
[09:11] <smspillaz> njpatel: some stupid race condition with timers
[09:12] <njpatel> smspillaz, sweet, update the bug please
[09:12] <smspillaz> njpatel: :)
[09:13] <smspillaz> njpatel: good progress on your metacity stuff btw
[09:13] <smspillaz> njpatel: I have the shadow and padding properties parsing now
[09:14] <smspillaz> and exported via libmetacity-private
[09:15] <njpatel> smspillaz, woohoo!
[09:17] <kamstrup> kvalo: ! man you write a lot of code. You!
[09:17] <kamstrup> kvalo: but almost through the first one, now
[09:17] <smspillaz> heh, I don't know why I had this crazy idea
[09:17] <smspillaz> I turned the wobbly settings up to maximum crack when stress testing transition scripts
[09:17] <smspillaz> now they are stuck like that
[09:19] <kvalo> kamstrup: sorry for the extra work! you can punch me next time we meet :)
[09:19] <kamstrup> kvalo: ... behind the sauna
[09:19] <kamstrup> ;-)
[09:20] <kvalo> haha :D
[09:20] <kvalo> kamstrup: on the bright side after your review there's only a small portion of dbus-glib code in indicator.c \o/
[09:24] <njpatel> smspillaz, you never merged this? https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-dx-team/unity/unity.remove-io-from-pl/+merge/41936
[09:24] <smspillaz> didn't jason merge it?
[09:25] <njpatel> it's not marked as much
[09:25] <njpatel> could you check please?
[09:25] <smspillaz> ah ok
[09:25] <njpatel> (just retry the merge, bzr should say "nothing to do" if it's been merged before)
[09:30] <smspillaz> njpatel: ok
[09:36] <kamstrup> kvalo: first one done
[09:36] <kvalo> kamstrup, njpatel: I want to clear the network menu after a crash (or actually always during boot). what's the easiest way to do this with dbusmenu?
[09:37] <kvalo> kamstrup: thank you very much!
[09:37] <kvalo> kamstrup, njpatel: my problem is that I see stale menuitems after a indicator-netowrk-service crash
[09:38] <njpatel> kvalo, clear the root menu? dbusmenu_menuitem_foreach? or _get_children () and remove them all?
[09:38] <kamstrup> kvalo: the namespace merge approved without comments
[09:40] <kvalo> njpatel: ok, thanks. I'll try that
[09:53] <kamstrup> Awesome. The latest Maverick updates broke my dev box :-S
[09:54] <kamstrup> I'll be offline a while trying to fix it
[10:00] <kamstrup> woohoo, back again
[10:27] <kamstrup> njpatel: ... did you see my dee_model_get() API question yesterday?
[10:32] <njpatel> kamstrup, yeah, I replied too
[10:32] <kvalo> kamstrup: what broke it?
[10:34] <kamstrup> njpatel: huh - I never saw that, and I can't find it in my logs...
[10:35] <kamstrup> kvalo: hehe, it's tragicomic... It's the ABI breaking glib patches we apply they broke everything because I have a pretty spaghetti-like installtion
[10:36] <njpatel> uno momento
[10:37] <kvalo> kamstrup: ouch
[10:37] <njpatel> Nov 29 14:16:47 <njpatel>	kamstrup, but dee_model_get (model, iter, 3, &val0, 6, &val9, -1); wouldn't work, right? You would only be able to get all of them or none?
[10:38] <kamstrup> njpatel: right. We still have individual column getters ala get_int(model, iter, col_index) of course
[10:38] <njpatel> kamstrup, I'd say that the variant one would be dee_model_get_all, then? dee_model_get
[10:38] <kamstrup> njpatel: it's just that in practice I've never only extracted a subset of the row data, it's almost always all or none
[10:39] <njpatel> kamstrup, good point
[10:39] <kamstrup> njpatel: and I'd rather not have too many different ways to access the model
[10:40] <kamstrup> njpatel: and the index based get() seems out of style when the rest of the API uses variants
[10:41] <kamstrup> njpatel: so the question is: which is the more important - to look like GtkTreeModel or to tie in with GVariant
[10:41] <njpatel> kamstrup, agreed, so I don't mind _get being for everything if it reduces complexity
[10:42] <njpatel> kamstrup, as you mentioned, I've only used it the !get_all case once or twice, would easily be able to make that two calls
[10:42] <njpatel> (get_foo(), I mean)
[10:42] <kamstrup> right
[11:10] <kvalo> kamstrup: I pushed now the fixes: https://code.launchpad.net/~kvalo/indicator-network/libconnman-backend-2/+merge/42131
[11:13] <TheMuso> Nice network indicator, although I find myself thrown out of the menu every now and then, i.e I hilight an option, and after a few seconds the menu refreshes, and I lose focus on the item I was on.
[11:15] <kvalo> TheMuso: ah, I didn't think of that. that's annoying
[11:15] <kvalo> TheMuso: care to file a bug or do you want me to do it?
[11:15] <TheMuso> kvalo: I expected warts, considering its relatively new.
[11:16] <TheMuso> I will do so tomorrow.
[11:16] <TheMuso> When I am a little more fres.
[11:16] <TheMuso> fresh
[11:16] <kvalo> TheMuso: excellent, thanks. feel free to file more bugs as you find them :)
[11:16] <TheMuso> will do.
[11:17] <smspillaz> njpatel: already pushed
[11:19] <njpatel> smspillaz, thanks
[11:27] <didrocks> smspillaz: did you experience gnome-panel applets crashing at load?
[11:27] <smspillaz> didrocks: yes I do not know what casues
[11:28] <smspillaz> *this
[11:28] <didrocks> smspillaz: so, it seems to be compiz related
[11:28] <didrocks> (and a recent regression)
[11:28] <didrocks> smspillaz: I think that can be important for A1 TBH (that said, today)
[11:28] <didrocks> I tried to remove the fade and animation plugins
[11:28] <didrocks> no luck
[11:29] <smspillaz> didrocks: it would probably be this reparenting fiasco
[11:29] <didrocks> smspillaz: let me try without the glibmm branch, the previous glib one
[11:29] <smspillaz> ok
[11:29] <didrocks> I don't remember I get it there
[11:29] <smspillaz> I doubt that would cause problems though
[11:29] <hyperair> my panels stopped crashing once compiz got faster at loading though
[11:29] <didrocks> ok, so timing issue
[11:30] <smspillaz> I've seen this on and off, and like I said I have no idea what causes it so maybe it is applications trying to do stuff and then getting reparented
[11:30] <hyperair> probably
[11:30] <didrocks> smspillaz: gnome-panel has a startup animation
[11:30] <didrocks> smspillaz: and it's sliding
[11:30] <didrocks> can be the cause?
[11:30] <smspillaz> didrocks: that wouldn't do it
[11:31] <hyperair> ho, that might be it. now my panel slides down after compiz loads.
[11:31] <smspillaz> didrocks: I think this is a reparenting issue, although tbh it will take me a long time to fix
[11:31] <didrocks> let's find a workaround for alpha1
[11:31] <didrocks> I'm disabling the startup animation in case
[11:31] <smspillaz> didrocks: there isn't one. We need to fix the reparenting implementation in compiz and like I said this will take me a while
[11:32] <didrocks> logout/login
[11:32] <didrocks> smspillaz: yeah, but we can't ship A1 with that
[11:43] <didrocks> smspillaz: I can confirm that without panel animation I don't get anymore crash
[11:45] <smspillaz> didrocks: ok
[11:46] <smspillaz> didrocks: I am looking into changing how reparenting is done then
[11:46] <didrocks> smspillaz: nice, I'll open a bug about it
[11:46] <didrocks> smspillaz: as a workaround, I'll try to disable the animation
[11:50] <smspillaz> ok
[12:09] <njpatel> didrocks, can we just not fallback to metacity + gnome-panel for A1?
[12:10] <didrocks> njpatel: no, I think we still want the right experience, so disabling the animation can fix it (on new install only)
[12:10] <didrocks> not sure how we can do it easily though
[12:11] <njpatel> oh, okay
[12:11] <didrocks> the thing is that gnome-panel is generating those keys…
[12:12] <didrocks> let me try to set them as default for now
[12:12] <didrocks> or mandatory…
[12:35] <kamstrup> kvalo: approved the backend-2 branch!
[12:37] <kvalo> kamstrup: thanks a lot!
[12:37] <kvalo> kamstrup: and from now on there will be smaller merges :)
[13:03] <didrocks> njpatel: did you see that issue? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/683065
[13:05] <didrocks> DBO: hey dude
[13:06] <didrocks> DBO: does your commit in Nux fix fullscreen app issues?
[13:06] <njpatel> didrocks, fullscreen has been fixed for some time, no?
[13:06] <didrocks> njpatel: not application fullscreen
[13:06] <didrocks> njpatel: there are some bugs I filed IIRC
[13:07] <didrocks> gnome-screensaver was, right
[13:07] <njpatel> oh
[13:08] <didrocks> yeah, just try (but you have the new version I guess) firefox or chromium in fullscreen
[13:08] <didrocks> I still have the bar there
[13:08] <didrocks> let's try new nux once built
[13:08] <didrocks> hum
[13:08] <didrocks> fail at configure, nice :)
[13:09] <didrocks> (I hate doxygen as well)
[13:11] <njpatel> didrocks, milestoned, thanks for the head's up
[13:11] <didrocks> who touched the configure.ac? :)
[13:11] <didrocks> ok, it's me :)
[13:12] <didrocks> but not related ^^
[13:12] <didrocks> njpatel: do you get an issue when trying to build with nux documentation?
[13:12] <njpatel> didrocks, fullscreening chromium or firefox works fine for me
[13:12] <njpatel> didrocks, no, I don't build it anymore :)
[13:12] <didrocks> njpatel: ok, with new nux?
[13:12] <njpatel> didrocks, what's the issue?
[13:13] <njpatel> didrocks, with latest everything
[13:13] <didrocks> ok, should be fixed in new nux
[13:13] <didrocks> njpatel: for the issue: http://paste.ubuntu.com/538278/
[13:13] <didrocks> it seems it doesn't DX_COND in configure.ac
[13:13] <kvalo> njpatel, kamstrup: back to my stale dbusmenu menuitems. I did this but I can't access the stale items: http://paste.ubuntu.com/538277/
[13:13] <njpatel> okay, feel free to commit
[13:13] <njpatel> didrocks, ^
[13:14] <didrocks> njpatel: hum, I didn't get a fix yet :)
[13:14] <kvalo> njpatel, kamstrup: the problem is easy to reproduce with 'killall -KILL indicator-network-service'
[13:14] <didrocks> It doesn't seem I'm skipping an include there
[13:15] <njpatel> kvalo, hmm, you might need ted for this, I haven't a lot of experience with dbusmenu
[13:15] <njpatel> seems like that should work, though :/
[13:15] <didrocks> njpatel: dude, did you autogen.sh --enable-documentation?
[13:16] <kvalo> njpatel: good to know that I'm on right track, thanks. I'll experiment more and ask from tedg
[13:16] <njpatel> didrocks, I don't think so, no
[13:16] <didrocks> njpatel: I think you need it, like previous week :)
[13:16] <njpatel> didrocks, I didn't last week either dude
[13:16] <didrocks> njpatel: make dist doesn't include it, but you need to configure with the doc
[13:16] <didrocks> hum…
[13:16] <didrocks> njpatel: oh right, but we didn't touched any MakeFile.am, right?
[13:17] <didrocks> contrary to this week
[13:17] <njpatel> not sure
[13:17] <njpatel> yeah, maybe
[13:17] <njpatel> I'm re-rolling with --enable-documentation
[13:17] <njpatel> hold up
[13:17] <didrocks> I think that DX_HTML_FEATURE(ON) is subjected to that
[13:18] <didrocks> just a guess, I don't see what changed apart that this week, there is a Makefile changed
[13:19] <njpatel> didrocks, can I just re-upload?
[13:19] <njpatel> instead of bumping?
[13:19] <didrocks> njpatel: sure
[13:19] <smspillaz> didrocks: DBO: ping
[13:19] <didrocks> yep?
[13:20] <smspillaz> I've got a patch here which changes up compiz slightly so that we don't do anything on CreateNotify and reparent immediately on MapRequest
[13:20] <njpatel> didrocks, try now
[13:20] <smspillaz> I'm just going to run it by onestone first
[13:20] <didrocks> smspillaz: awesome, that will fix all the reparenting issue? will be a post alpha1 upload!
[13:20] <didrocks> :)
[13:20] <smspillaz> didrocks: it's like
[13:20] <didrocks> excellent :)
[13:20] <smspillaz> startupperformance++
[13:21] <smspillaz> and not more eppileptic fit
[13:21] <didrocks> waow, less flickerying?
[13:21] <didrocks> \o/
[13:21] <smspillaz> yes
[13:21] <didrocks> flickering*
[13:21] <smspillaz> only as much as metacity
[13:21] <didrocks> that's a huge improvment :)
[13:21] <didrocks> njpatel: trying
[13:21] <smspillaz> well I need to do some quick side by side testing with the old method
[13:21] <smspillaz> but I'm pretty sure this method is faster
[13:22] <smspillaz> and I also had a big talk with the metacity, kwin and enlightenment developers and it seems like it is the correct method too
[13:22] <didrocks> nicely done smspillaz :)
[13:22] <smspillaz> at least I think this is correct
[13:23] <smspillaz> there is still some flicker though because of the fact that we load the compositing plugins after we start looking at windows
[13:23] <smspillaz> though maybe I can look at doing a system like plugins first -> then windows in the future
[13:24] <didrocks> njpatel: 1da45b1492d71ac6b2a03e31e91cc1b6 is the last version, isn't it?
[13:24] <smspillaz> didrocks: though I can't commit this patch yet since I don't know what it will break
[13:24] <smspillaz> didrocks: since I assume there has got to be some compiz code out there that assumes that no MapRequest has taken place
[13:24] <didrocks> smspillaz: sure, and that's why I don't want it for alpha1 as well :)
[13:24] <smspillaz> yeah
[13:25] <didrocks> smspillaz: so, sounds good for a post A1 upload
[13:25] <njpatel> didrocks, r134
[13:25] <njpatel> didrocks, I don't deal in hashes :p
[13:25] <njpatel> we're not git
[13:25] <njpatel> this is for humans
[13:25] <didrocks> njpatel: well, you uploaded a new tarball, isn't it?
[13:26] <njpatel> oh you mean tarball
[13:26] <njpatel> sooorry
[13:26] <didrocks> njpatel: what else? :)
[13:26] <njpatel> didrocks, yes, that's correct :)
[13:26]  * didrocks not sure what njpatel did :)
[13:27] <didrocks> the day you will see my speaking "git" is the day I'm sick :)
[13:29] <kvalo> njpatel: yeah, right. like randon revision numbers are any better! ;)
[13:30] <didrocks> so, I have no clue until now :/
[13:30] <kvalo> njpatel: random*
[13:30] <didrocks> why oh why doxygen is so mean? :/
[13:30] <didrocks> njpatel: if you ./autogen.sh --enable-documentation && make what happens?
[13:34] <kvalo> ronoc: can you do a small review, please? https://code.launchpad.net/~kvalo/indicator-network/fix-icons-in-menu/+merge/42237
[13:35] <smspillaz> njpatel: those fixes ^^ might also fix your flash problems
[13:35] <njpatel> smspillaz, sweet
[13:35] <didrocks> njpatel: hem, did you see ^^
[13:36] <njpatel> kvalo, yeah, I hate the randomness of foo++ ;)
[13:36] <njpatel> didrocks, it doesn't make the documentation :/
[13:36] <ronoc> kvalo, sure
[13:36] <didrocks> njpatel: hum? you didn't get the same issue when starting make?
[13:37] <ronoc> kvalo, just on lunch, will do it shortly
[13:37] <njpatel> didrocks, hold up
[13:37] <kvalo> njpatel: I don't know what I do wrong, but for me revision ids differ between branches
[13:37] <didrocks> |o|
[13:37] <kvalo> ronoc: no worries
[13:37] <smspillaz> hmm ok I found one bug already
[13:37] <smspillaz> menus don't get mapped
[13:37] <smspillaz> fun
[13:38] <didrocks> smspillaz: the flash issue is the one where you quit fullscreen mode and that you don't get another fullscreen flash video anymore?
[13:38] <smspillaz> didrocks: no, that is a flash bug
[13:38] <smspillaz> didrocks: this one is just where the plugin fails on xembed
[13:38] <didrocks> oh ok, I get that by rarely
[13:38] <njpatel> kvalo, what happens is, when you merge branch 'a' into branch 'b', branch b gets revision++ (say it's now at  revision 136), and the the revisions that made up the work in a get named 135.1, .2, .3 etc (or something like that)
[13:38] <njpatel> kvalo, is that not what happens for you?
[13:40] <didrocks> njpatel: (it should stop at the very beginning of make)
[13:40] <kvalo> njpatel: yeah, something like that. but the end result will be that I can't check from rev ids which commit is in which branch
[13:41] <kvalo> njpatel: let's flame about this over beer ;)
[13:43] <njpatel> kvalo, agreed :)
[13:45] <didrocks> njpatel: hem, dude?  :)
[13:49] <njpatel> didrocks, it doesn't
[13:49] <njpatel> didrocks, maybe I'm missing some deps on my system?
[13:49] <didrocks> grrr… weird
[13:49] <didrocks> njpatel: apt-get build-dep nux
[13:49] <njpatel> it says I have everything
[13:49] <didrocks> wth?
[13:49] <seb128> what error do you get?
[13:50] <didrocks> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/538278/
[13:50] <didrocks> and configure.ac seems to include what it should include
[13:50] <njpatel> didrocks, wait, there were some pre-build docs that we're cleaned
[13:50] <didrocks> let me see configure
[13:50] <didrocks> njpatel: it seems that rather is doesn't export the right macros
[13:51] <njpatel> didrocks, it seems to end quicker than before and then go to building nux
[13:51] <njpatel> no errors, just some warnings about symbols
[13:51] <didrocks> hum
[13:51] <didrocks> DX_COND_chm is in configure…
[13:51] <seb128> do you need to autoreconf during the build?
[13:52] <didrocks> seb128: this is what is weird, it seems to want to autoreconf
[13:52] <didrocks> there is a Makefile.am changed
[13:52] <didrocks> but upstream ship the new Makefile.am and Makefile.in
[13:52] <didrocks> I just configure with --enable-documentation
[13:53] <seb128> autotools can be weird
[13:54] <didrocks> yeah
[13:54] <didrocks> let's google a little
[14:11] <didrocks> njpatel: seems to work on a pbuilder, so let's forget it and go the lazy way
[14:11] <njpatel> works for me
[14:11] <didrocks> I guess it's picking another automake version here
[14:12] <didrocks> or that I have a dep trickering something else
[14:12] <didrocks> njpatel: oh btw, thinking about it, unity is exporting more symbols (the places one) in pbuider than locally
[14:12] <didrocks> pbuilder*
[14:12] <didrocks> njpatel: I'm wondering how come I have more build-dep installed in pbuilder/buildd than locally :)
[14:18] <didrocks> njpatel: I'm pushing one more unity change in the default launchers
[14:22] <njpatel> didrocks, okay, jay just woke up and I've asked him to look into the quicklist issue asap
[14:22] <didrocks> njpatel: ok thanks :)
[14:22] <didrocks> njpatel: any idea about the exported symbols?
[14:22] <ronoc> kvalo, done
[14:22] <didrocks> (I've pushed the gsettings schema changed)
[14:22] <didrocks> nux built in pbuilder, let's forget about my local issue then…
[14:26] <njpatel> didrocks, WAAAAIT
[14:26] <njpatel> didrocks, might have distropatch for nux :)
[14:27] <didrocks> njpatel: you know the cost of a pbuilder? :)
[14:27] <njpatel> LOL
[14:27] <didrocks> njpatel: so, you have to answer my exported symbols issue on unity as a counterpart
[14:27] <njpatel> yes, one kitten dies everytime you do `pdebuild` :)
[14:27] <didrocks> no distro-patch otherwise :)
[14:27] <didrocks> hehe :)
[14:27] <njpatel> didrocks, okay,  I didn't see the question, sorry
[14:27]  * njpatel reads
[14:28] <boulabiar> fagan, ping
[14:28] <njpatel> didrocks, libunity ?
[14:28] <njpatel> (is exporting more?)
[14:28] <fagan> boulabiar: yo
[14:28] <didrocks> njpatel: yeah, on a pbuilder or buildd
[14:28] <didrocks> all the places one
[14:28] <boulabiar> fagan, you really want to code an xml parser ?
[14:28] <didrocks> but I don't see how pbuilder can have more than my local
[14:28] <didrocks> hum, maybe recommends
[14:28] <didrocks> let me check
[14:28] <fagan> boulabiar: im making my own for fun
[14:28] <fagan> :)
[14:29] <boulabiar> fagan, if you want I can give you better project ideas :P
[14:29] <fagan> boulabiar: im doing a data structures thing for college so im going to use that xml parser for it
[14:29] <fagan> so its not exactly a waste
[14:29] <fagan> im just showing off
[14:30] <njpatel> didrocks, weird...
[14:30] <boulabiar> fagan, ah ok, if it's for college then I understand, Good Luck !
[14:31]  * fagan is bringing out the big guns for that project
[14:38] <kvalo> ronoc: thanks!
[14:39] <ronoc> kvalo, np
[14:41]  * hyperair wonders if anyone else has ever felt it annoying to click on the sound icon, click on sound preferences, and then click on the Applications tab just to get access to the per-application volume control?
[14:42] <hyperair> i just did that over 10 times earlier while switching between watching a lecture video and listening to music (i was changing banshee's volume, for which it would probably be easier to just poke the volume control inside banshee itself
[14:43] <hyperair> but honestly, windows vista and 7 have it so much easier. they just click the sound icon, and directly adjust the per-app volume control there
[14:55] <davidbarth> smspillaz: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/538304/
[14:55] <jcastro> hyperair: I just tried both and they're both 2 clicks away
[14:56] <hyperair> jcastro: three. one for the volume icon, one for soudn preferences, and one for the tab.
[14:56] <hyperair> jcastro: that's not including the click for the slider.
[14:56] <jcastro> hmm, mine keeps opening to the applications by default
[14:57] <hyperair> hmm oh yeah it does now
[14:57] <hyperair> weird, it didn't do so earlier.
[14:57] <jcastro> I wonder if it remembers now?
[14:57] <jcastro> or if that's the default now
[14:57] <hyperair> i guess it does
[14:57] <hyperair> =\
[14:57] <njpatel> jcastro, the BFB?
[14:57] <hyperair> jcastro: what are the steps on windows?
[14:57] <smspillaz> davidbarth: sounds like an abi mismatch
[14:57] <jcastro> click the sound icon, click mixer
[14:57] <jcastro> 2 clicks
[14:57] <smspillaz> davidbarth: clear your entire install and recompile compiz
[14:57] <hyperair> jcastro: i remember one click bringing up the per-app volume control.
[14:58] <hyperair> jcastro: or a double click
[14:58] <hyperair> it was a tiny one, not a full-fledged window
[14:59] <jcastro> nope, you have to click "mixer"
[14:59] <jcastro> to get the little compact window
[14:59] <hyperair> i see.
[14:59] <hyperair> i guess my memory was fooling with me
[14:59] <hyperair> mixer's easier to reach than sound prefs though
[14:59] <jcastro> I would prefer multiple sources to show up at the root
[14:59] <hyperair> yeah, i really would.
[15:00] <hyperair> but afaik the mockup was rejected?
[15:00] <jcastro> yes, mixer is one menu item up, for us it's mute, slider, art/player, then the prefs
[15:00] <hyperair> yeah
[15:00] <hyperair> if you have multiple players, then even longer
[15:00] <hyperair> it's quite tedious
[15:00] <hyperair> i got so fed-up of it i just left the sound prefs window open and put banshee in front of it
[15:01] <jcastro> you can put the gnome mixer on the panel, I do that for my wife
[15:01] <hyperair> gnome mixer?
[15:01] <jcastro> though that's more because her volume randomly sets to zero
[15:01] <hyperair> is that the old fashioned one?
[15:01] <jcastro> and she needs a quick way without doing alsamixer
[15:01] <jcastro> yes, the old one
[15:01] <hyperair> i see.
[15:01] <hyperair> randomly setting to zero sounds like a big problem =\
[15:02] <jcastro> not big enough for me to upgrade her
[15:02] <jcastro> she just leaves it open, *shrug*
[15:02] <hyperair> heh
[15:02] <hyperair> i guess normal users are more flexible than us picky devels. ¬_¬
[15:02] <jcastro> it would drive me crazy
[15:03] <hyperair> same here
[15:06] <hyperair> jcastro: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/665106 <-- a bug regarding the issue i mentioned.
[15:06] <hyperair> someone filed it a month ago
[15:07] <jcastro> bummer
[15:08] <hyperair> maybe we could poke mpt about it
[15:09] <hyperair> iirc the last issues mentioned were something to do with whether or not we should add an entry per application, rather than just those registered under the sound menu.
[15:20] <janimo> is this channel appropriate for NUX discussion?
[15:20] <ronoc> hyperair, yes I'm inclined to agree
[15:21] <ronoc> it was decided to leave the per application volume out
[15:21] <hyperair> ronoc: so which opinion do you agree with?
[15:21] <ronoc> but in hindsight i think its a quick win we could easily accomodate
[15:22] <ronoc> hyperair, exposing per application levels in the menu is a good idea
[15:22] <ronoc> but only for the music apps
[15:22] <hyperair> yeah, i believe that would be a good idea.
[15:22] <hyperair> so should the bug be reopened?
[15:22] <hyperair> ronoc: are you the one developing indicator-sound?
[15:22] <ronoc> hyperair, well we need to talk to mpt and see what he thinks
[15:22] <ronoc> hyperair, yup
[15:23] <hyperair> *nod*
[15:23] <hyperair> cool =)
[15:23] <ronoc> hyperair, i was speaking with the mpris guys the week before last
[15:23] <ronoc> hyperair, in order to get this playlist extension into the official mpris spec
[15:24] <hyperair> oh. cool.
[15:24] <ronoc> they wanted a test implementation to be carried to see how it would work
[15:24] <ronoc> hyperair, would bertrand be up for implementing this extension
[15:24] <ronoc> hyperair, ill do the client side on the menu
[15:25] <hyperair> ronoc: i can't speak for bertrand, but i could poke him about it. he's always on #banshee at irc.gnome.org
[15:25] <ronoc> hyperair, i was trying to ping him thing morning, will try him later
[15:25] <hyperair> okay
[15:25] <ronoc> this even
[15:26] <ronoc> hyperair, it should not be too much work
[15:26] <hyperair> it probably wouldn't be
[15:28] <kvalo> kenvandine, cyphermox: https://launchpad.net/indicator-network/trunk/0.3.0
[15:28] <kvalo> kenvandine, cyphermox: that one requires connman 0.64 or greater
[15:29] <kvalo> I have to go now, but I will be back later
[15:29] <kamstrup> w00t - I have quicklists!
[15:29] <kamstrup> jhbuild ftw!
[15:29] <cyphermox> kvalo, cool, I'm working on getting connman 0.64 ready right now
[15:30] <kamstrup> does anyone know if the WS swicther is supposed to do something, or is it just a placeholder?
[15:31] <didrocks> kamstrup: nice, you got it one week after the packages :)
[15:32] <kenvandine> cyphermox, can you let me know when connman is in?
[15:32] <kenvandine> and i'll do indicator-network?
[15:35] <cyphermox> kenvandine, well, if you want to upload it I can let you know when I'm done preparing it ;)
[15:36] <hyperair> ronoc: may i post the IRC transcript on the bug, reopen it and subscribe mpt?
[15:36] <hyperair> ronoc: (indicator-sound)
[15:36] <kenvandine> cyphermox, great, i can do that
[15:37] <ronoc> hyperair, well I just read https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg01831.html
[15:38] <ronoc> hyperair, it seems as if this subject has been considered and decided upon
[15:40] <hyperair> ronoc: i brought this issue up again because i think it's time to take a second look at it now that the sound menu has been in deployment on many systems for a while.
[15:41] <mpt> hyperair, what difference does that make?
[15:42]  * hyperair shrugs
[15:42] <hyperair> mpt: i just noticed in that post that your use case about rainywood.com..
[15:42] <hyperair> er mood
[15:43] <hyperair> (e.g. turning down the volume on a browser tab at rainymood.com while you watch a video in another browser tab).
[15:43] <hyperair> doesn't that sound really really similar to turning down the volume of your media player while you watch a video on your browser?
[15:43] <mpt> Exactly, that's the problem
[15:44] <mpt> People would expect those volume controls to be there and they wouldn't be.
[15:45] <mpt> Because as far as the menu could tell, they'd be a single "ALSA plugin [Chromium Browser]" item.
[15:46] <hyperair> so basically because we can't have per-tab volume controls, we're not going to have per-app volume controls?
[15:46] <hyperair> i've never heard of anyone who uses the browser to listen to music, though. i use my media player to do that.
[15:47] <mpt> No, that's only one of the reasons I gave.
[15:47] <hyperair> hmm so the music player has its own prominent volume control
[15:47] <hyperair> which is true
[15:48] <hyperair> but it also has prominent play/pause, prev and next controls, which are also in the sound menu.
[15:50] <kvalo> cyphermox: nice. do you have time to update ofono?
[15:50] <ronoc> quality performance from the weekends gig in Dublin -> http://vimeo.com/17303616
[15:50] <kamstrup> didrocks: don't ruin my illusion of living on the bleeding edge! :-D
[15:50] <didrocks> :)
[15:53]  * hyperair grumbles to himself about opinions getting ignored without good reason and goes back to studying
[15:53] <cyphermox> kvalo, I'll do it right after
[15:57] <vish> hyperair / jcastro: we fixed the "sound prefs to open the applications tab by default" for maverick, no memory over there.. just a papercut :D
[15:58] <jcastro> vish: very well done
[15:58] <hyperair> vish: nice.
[15:58] <mpt> hyperair, I'm sorry you disagree with the reasons. That's not the same as ignoring you. I understand your point about the Previous/Next items.
[15:58] <hyperair> mpt: i don't see the difference in importance between prev/next and the volume.
[15:59] <hyperair> mpt: my use case was pretty simple, i was watching various parts of my lecture notes in a browser and wanted to make my music softer temporarily
[15:59] <hyperair> so i opened up sound prefs (which was conveniently hard to reach) and closed it again 10 times.
[15:59] <hyperair> in the span of two hours.
[15:59] <mpt> Previous/Next is specific to music players, and (like the rest of the music player stuff) it's opt-in
[16:00] <hyperair> first few times were fine, but after that it got seriously annoying.
[16:00] <hyperair> er opt-in?
[16:01] <mpt> Yes, it doesn't show up unless a music player registers itself
[16:01] <hyperair> ah yes, that
[16:01] <hyperair> so what would be wrong with having a volume slider appear together with that?
[16:01]  * hyperair should totally patch indicator-sound to do that as an experiment
[16:02] <mpt> Well, one step to make it a more serious proposal would be to work out how to identify applications properly
[16:02] <lamalex> smspillaz, have you started anything with perf counters?
[16:02] <mpt> hyperair, and doing that would itself help gnome-volume-control
[16:02] <hyperair> mpt: as in the pre-indicators volume control applet?
[16:03] <mpt> hyperair, for example, when I mouse down on the "Close" button in the Sound Preferences window, the Sound Preferences window *itself* momentarily shows up as an  item in the Applications tab, not as "Sound Preferences", but as the jargon "ALSA plug-in [gnome-volume-control]".
[16:03] <mpt> Because the button has a sound effect.
[16:03] <smspillaz> lamalex: no not yet
[16:04] <hyperair> mpt: ah, i see. wouldn't it work to just transition everything to use gstreamer and get rid of alsa?
[16:04] <lamalex> smspillaz, ok, just wanted to make sure you didn't have anything before I started
[16:04] <smspillaz> lamalex: :)
[16:04] <hyperair> mpt: alsa meaning alsa userspace
[16:04] <smspillaz> lamalex: I can write the PerfWrapableDispatcher
[16:05] <mpt> hyperair, ronoc would know that far better than I do.
[16:06] <ronoc> hyperair, the pulse server is what  the sound menu talks to
[16:06] <hyperair> yep, and the whole ALSA plug-in [$procname] business comes from stuff accessing the pulse server via the ALSA plugin.
[16:07] <hyperair> so perhaps we could: #1) strip away the ALSA plug-in prefix from the ALSA plug-in when it reports to pulseaudio; and #2) patch whatever default apps that still use ALSA to use gstreamer or some higher-level library instead.
[16:08] <hyperair> mpt, ronoc: ^
[16:08] <mpt> hyperair, another necessary detail would be how to lay out the menu so that the volume sliders for registered music players, and the volume sliders for other applications, didn't look inconsistent.
[16:09] <hyperair> mpt: there was a suggestion somewhere further up about only showing volume sliders for registered music players, which should satisfy the majority of the cases of having music playing in the background
[16:09] <ronoc> hyperair, mpt applications can be identified via the prop list exposed by pulse
[16:09] <hyperair> mpt: as for the per-tab use case, i can only think of applications opening multiple pulse connections, if that is at all possible.
[16:10] <ronoc> hyperair, that generally does not happen
[16:10] <ronoc> or at least it shouldn't
[16:10] <hyperair> ronoc: i meant per-tab pulse connections?
[16:10] <hyperair> ronoc: or is it possible to send multiple streams over one pulse connection?
[16:10] <hyperair> ronoc: or do these apps do mixing internally prior to sending it over?
[16:11] <ronoc> whats the issue with the alsa plugin ? that fact that browser tabs have different instances of alsa plugin ?
[16:11] <vish> hyperair: this is not true " <hyperair> hmm so the music player has its own prominent volume control "  did it change for natty? the volume control is the main one, not for the player alone
[16:11] <ronoc> hyperair, ^
[16:11] <mpt> hyperair, showing volume sliders only for registered music players could work. One awkwardness is that it would let you turn down the music in Banshee while listening to a lecture in a browser, but it wouldn't let you do the opposite, turn down a Web site's music in a browser while listening to a podcast in Banshee.
[16:11] <hyperair> vish: music player has its own prominent volume control in its own window.
[16:11] <vish> ah!
[16:11] <hyperair> mpt: hmm yes, that would be a problem.
[16:12] <hyperair> mpt: do people actually do that, though?
[16:12] <hyperair> as in, play music in a browser in background and podcasts in banshee
[16:12] <mpt> I've done it. I've no idea what percentag of other people do. :-)
[16:12] <htorque> cyphermox, are you aware of those messages from nm-applet (the indicator one from the PPA): http://paste.ubuntu.com/538279/ - i get those three 1000+ times per hour in my .xsession-errors
[16:13] <ronoc> i do it sometimes
[16:13] <hyperair> heh okay, that makes two of us
[16:13]  * hyperair doesn't like browser music, it's not equalized.
[16:13]  * vish imagines a scenario with 10 youtube videos plaused in separate tabs.. would each have a volume control ? :D
[16:13] <hyperair> vish: lol, that would be interesting.
[16:13] <cyphermox> htorque, yes, I am
[16:14] <htorque> cyphermox, ok, thanks :)
[16:14] <cyphermox> those actually don't come from nm-applet but from libappindicator :/
[16:14] <mpt> vish, and what about <http://youtubedoubler.com/>? One slider or two? :-P
[16:14] <htorque> cyphermox, is this related to the possible mem-leak bug you opened?
[16:14]  * vish then wants name of the video as well in the menu :p
[16:14] <cyphermox> htorque, might be
[16:14] <cyphermox> I'm still working on fixing those through re-working the way the menus get built
[16:15] <hyperair> mpt: on the other hand web browsers don't register in the sound menu as media players, but should they be treated as such? hmm
[16:15] <vish> mpt: cram them in there! , more sliders the better/easier.. ;)
[16:15] <hyperair> mpt: it would be interesting to be able to pause website music in the sound menu
[16:16] <ronoc> hyperair, indeed it would
[16:16] <vish> are we talking about a universal remote?
[16:16]  * vish hides
[16:16] <hyperair> vish: i want my universal remote to run ubuntu.
[16:17] <mpt> vish, http://yooouuutuuube.com/v/?width=96&height=96&yt=TQuqeLBTetA&flux=1&direction=rand
[16:17]  * hyperair facepalms
[16:17] <vish> lol! #javafail!
[16:18] <vish> i dont seem to have sun java ;p
[16:18] <hyperair> huh? that requires java?
[16:18] <lamalex> why does natty only open links in firefox and not my preferred browser
[16:18] <lamalex> driving me nuts
[16:18] <hyperair> because we're heading to the age where there can only be One True Browser™
[16:18] <smspillaz> hyperair: fixed your scalefilter bug
[16:18] <vish> hyperair: this is what i get "Hi. I'm having trouble using Java to get this video URL. Are you sure the URL is valid? Do you have the latest version of the Java plugin installed and enabled for your browser? To get Java click here. If you recently installed Java try restarting your browser. Or you can go back and try a different video url.
[16:18] <vish> If you have Java installed and you are still having problems, send me an email. Hi. I'm having trouble using Java to get this video URL. Are you sure the URL is valid? Do you have the latest version of the Java plugin installed and enabled for your browser? To get Java click here. If you recently installed Java try restarting your browser. Or you can go back and try a different video url.
[16:18] <vish> If you have Java installed and you are still having problems, send me an email. "
[16:18] <vish> gah! :/
[16:19] <hyperair> lamalex: the trick is to annoy all users into using firefox as their default.
[16:19] <hyperair> lol! =p
[16:19] <hyperair> smspillaz: thanks. you just had to pick the least annoying bug to fix, didn't you? =p
[16:19] <smspillaz> hyperair: it was easy
[16:19] <hyperair> heheh
[16:19] <smspillaz> hyperair: what about https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/681010 is that already fixeD?
[16:19] <smspillaz> *fixed
[16:20] <hyperair> smspillaz: nope
[16:20] <lamalex> oof :(
[16:20] <smspillaz> ok let me look into it
[16:20] <lamalex> i feel pretty bad about that
[16:20] <lamalex> erm
[16:20] <lamalex> wrong channel :P
[16:20] <hyperair> haha
[16:20] <vish> lamalex: are you trying from thunderbird? or from all apps? from TB it seems to only open in FF3.*
[16:20] <smspillaz> DBO is going to kill me if he finds out I've been working on your bugs and not his ;-)
[16:20] <DBO> nah
[16:21] <smspillaz> DBO: twas a joke :)
[16:21] <hyperair> ronoc: so what would it take to bring per-tab pause/prev/next buttons to the sound menu?
[16:21] <smspillaz> DBO: actually I want to look at this reparenting fiasco first before I sort out your nux input windows hting
[16:21] <hyperair> =p
[16:21] <hyperair> nux input windows?
[16:21] <smspillaz> hyperair: unity shell input windows
[16:22] <smspillaz> "nux" for short
[16:22] <hyperair> ah
[16:22] <smspillaz> it's the small layer that we use to create them
[16:22] <ronoc> hyperair, the alsa plugin would also need to expose an mpris api
[16:22] <hyperair> DBO: by the way, Do gets angry at me every time i restart compiz.
[16:22] <hyperair> ronoc: that doesn't sound so doable.
[16:23] <smspillaz> hyperair: give me a command that will "start" banshee from one of the commands in the commands plugin
[16:23] <hyperair> smspillaz: banshee --show
[16:23] <hyperair> smspillaz: that's what's bound to super+b
[16:23] <smspillaz> ok
[16:23] <smspillaz> I'm not running your profile ATM
[16:23] <hyperair> sure
[16:23] <hyperair> i've changed bits and pieces of it since then anyway
[16:23] <smspillaz> settings transition made sure that I had to nuke it
[16:23] <hyperair> heh
[16:24] <smspillaz> ;-0)
[16:24] <hyperair> by the way, what are the semantics of each focus prevention level?
[16:24] <hyperair> i noticed that low seems to let everything grab focus
[16:24] <smspillaz> hyperair: I actually sent an email to someone today about how it works
[16:24] <hyperair> normal seems to stop some apps, but let some through.
[16:24] <hyperair> smspillaz: excellent, can you forward it to me? =p
[16:24] <smspillaz> let me copypasta
[16:25]  * hyperair develops a sudden craving for pasta
[16:25] <ronoc> hyperair, implement mpris 2 so as there a dbus mpris interface for the alsa plugin for a start
[16:25] <lamalex> vish, from xchat it opens in ff4
[16:25] <lamalex> vish, on natty
[16:26] <lamalex> ronoc = connor?
[16:26] <ronoc> lamalex, yup
[16:26] <ronoc> conor
[16:26] <lamalex> oh wow, how bout that
[16:26] <ronoc> hows it going :)
[16:26] <smspillaz> hyperair: http://paste.ubuntu.com/538328/
[16:27] <lamalex> ronoc, do you speak Gaelic?
[16:27] <ronoc> lamalex, i small bit
[16:27] <ronoc> a small bit
[16:27] <ronoc> even
[16:27] <lamalex> ronoc, enough to say hi to your grandmom and whatnot?
[16:28] <ronoc> lamalex, at this stage pretty much, was not so bad when I was at school
[16:28] <ronoc> its not taught properly nor used
[16:28] <lamalex> yeah
[16:28] <lamalex> kind of sad
[16:28] <smspillaz> hyperair: the problem with focus stealing prevention is that there is no standardized way of doing it
[16:29] <smspillaz> hyperair: so applications make all these stupid assumptions about the way some window managers do it and the way others do it in order to try and "game the system"
[16:29] <hyperair> smspillaz: which is why it's so confusing.
[16:29] <lamalex> my girlfriend wants up to move to Dublin
[16:29] <smspillaz> which results in an inconsistent mess
[16:29] <ronoc> a dead language but propped up by government grants just so as the can say its still going
[16:29] <ronoc> lamalex, would you like to ?
[16:29] <hyperair> smspillaz: the only consistent setting is High, where nothing gets through, and you have to use the alt+a (or super+a in my case) from extrawm to bring it up
[16:29] <smspillaz> yeah
[16:29] <lamalex> ronoc, never been- probably
[16:29] <lamalex> I do love James Joyce and Samuel Beckett..
[16:30] <smspillaz> hyperair: FSP should be standardized in ICCCM or EWMH IMHO
[16:30] <lamalex> yeah I lvoe them both, don't hate
[16:30] <hyperair> smspillaz: propose the next revision of the spec!
[16:30] <ronoc> lamalex, well thats the town for it, was there at the weekend
[16:30] <smspillaz> its a pain
[16:30] <lamalex> looks pretty,but that's all I know ofit
[16:30] <ronoc> good fun had alround
[16:30] <hyperair> smspillaz: it's for the Greater Good™
[16:31] <ronoc> lamalex, you cold probably buy the whole place  now for a fiver :)
[16:31] <lamalex> haha
[16:31]  * lamalex reaches into his pocket
[16:31] <hyperair> smspillaz: and it'll boost compiz's image of being a good for nothing window manager that's just eye candy and shit at actual window management.
[16:31] <ronoc> haha
[16:32] <lamalex> ronoc, where do you live?
[16:32] <ronoc> lamalex, london (hackney)
[16:32] <lamalex> ah
[16:33] <hyperair> smspillaz: oh yeah, did you manage to reproduce the scale bug where mouse toggles the scale mode regardless of setting?
[16:33] <lamalex> smspillaz, is the wrappable dispatcher step 1 for our perf counters?
[16:33] <lamalex> smspillaz, I would imagine step 1 is making current dispatcher wrappable, and then step 2 is wrapping it :P
[16:33] <lamalex> step 3 ???
[16:33] <lamalex> step 4 PROFIT
[16:34] <smspillaz> lamalex: errr
[16:35] <smspillaz> lamalex: making the thing which does the wrapping wrappable == infinite loop
[16:35] <smspillaz> hyperair: no I did not
[16:35] <smspillaz> hyperair: I'm looking at your extrawm thing now
[16:35] <lamalex> wrapped != wrappable
[16:35] <hyperair> smspillaz: okay, awesome.
[16:35] <hyperair> smspillaz: did you manage to reproduce it?
[16:35] <smspillaz> hyperair: I need to know an exact scenario where it happens since I cannot reproduce it
[16:36] <smspillaz> lamalex: the current dispatcher is not even a class
[16:37] <hyperair> smspillaz: press super+b (launch banshee) with its window already open in a different workspace and focus prevention on. docky's icon bounces and indicator turns red. press super+a (the extrawm binding) once, nothing happens. twice, nothing happens. thrice, and it shifts over to the banshee window.
[16:37] <hyperair> smspillaz: not reproducible consistently.
[16:37] <smspillaz> and it has to be on a different ws?
[16:37] <hyperair> nope
[16:37] <hyperair> it can be on the same workspace
[16:37] <lamalex> jaytaoko, DBO, davidbarth no one replied to my QA wednesday mail. did you all get it?
[16:37] <hyperair> e.g. when banshee isn't open yet
[16:38] <smspillaz> hyperair: right so banshee has to be closed
[16:38] <smspillaz> eg the window unmapped
[16:38] <hyperair> yeah
[16:38] <hyperair> smspillaz: it also works for pidgin
[16:38] <smspillaz> ok couldn't reproduce it then
[16:38] <smspillaz> let me do something
[16:38] <hyperair> smspillaz: and other things.
[16:38] <DBO> lamalex, we got it alright...
[16:38] <lamalex> WELL YOU BETTER HAVE READ IT
[16:38] <hyperair> smspillaz: give me a patch that dumps craploads of information anywhere that you think may be a problem.
[16:39] <lamalex> or there will be hell to pay
[16:39] <jaytaoko> lamalex: checking...
[16:39] <smspillaz> lamalex: I don't think I got your mail?
[16:39] <lamalex> smspillaz, are you on the dx list?
[16:40] <didrocks> kamstrup: you broke abi :)
[16:40] <smspillaz> lamalex: I should be
[16:40] <lamalex> smspillaz, hmm
[16:40] <kamstrup> didrocks: I do  that on a daily basis
[16:40] <kamstrup> didrocks: if you expect abi stability from libunity...
[16:40] <didrocks> kamstrup: was wondering about this ubus stuff not being exported anymore :p
[16:40] <lamalex> smspillaz, it's really only important for main unity devs, but I can send it to you if you want
[16:40] <smspillaz> sure poke me
[16:40] <didrocks> kamstrup: I know, just have to build unity twice because of *you* :-)
[16:41] <smspillaz> hyperair: *sigh* send me your config file
[16:42] <kamstrup> didrocks: hehe, I build the entire unity stack from glib and up many times per day, so I know all about build issues :-)
[16:42] <kamstrup> (ok, maybe not rebuilding glib every time, but the rest of it)
[16:43] <didrocks> kamstrup: that's why you got quicklist one week after the others (kidding :p)
[16:43] <smspillaz> hyperair: poke
[16:43] <smspillaz> hyperair: paste your config file please
[16:44] <hyperair> smspillaz: gimme a moment, my stupid wireless connection is acting up
[16:44] <hyperair> smspillaz: pastebinit isn't working.
[16:44] <kamstrup> didrocks: at least I got it!
[16:44] <didrocks> kamstrup: :p
[16:45] <hyperair> smspillaz: http://pastebin.com/T4mr7NfM
[16:47] <smspillaz> just when you think your config is safe and you are a compiz developer
[16:47] <hyperair> did you just purge yours again
[16:47] <smspillaz> hyperair will come up with some bizzare bug which only happens on his config! and your config can say goodbye
[16:47] <hyperair> haha
[16:47] <hyperair> i wonder if it's only on my config though.
[16:49] <davidbarth> lamalex: we did
[16:50] <davidbarth> lamalex: there's nothing to reply, we should just do what you said tomorrow ;)
[16:50] <davidbarth> btw, jcastro, that could be a nice bitesize bug
[16:52] <lamalex> davidbarth, right- i was just checking because more than once I haven't gotten replies from people
[16:52] <lamalex> usually the travel people
[16:52] <lamalex> when they've sent them that is
[16:55] <jcastro> davidbarth: tag it please!
[17:10] <dbarth> smspillaz: just sent the valgrind log if you want to check
[17:11] <smspillaz> dbarth: cool
[17:12] <smspillaz> dbarth: do you think some slight consistency with metacity warrants another plugin being enabled?
[17:12] <smspillaz> dbarth: if you https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/537703
[17:12] <smspillaz> basically it looks like metacity uses libcanberra when it get the X11 bell event and plays a sound
[17:12] <smspillaz> ... compiz obviously doesn't
[17:13] <smspillaz> I have a plugin (or I can write one very easily) that will deal with this though
[17:15] <cyphermox> kvalo, did you also need me to include the 09-disable-wifi-legacy.patch patch?
[17:15] <dbarth> smspillaz: uh, dunno really; let me think about that
[17:15] <dbarth> smspillaz: not for a1 anyway
[17:16] <dbarth> smspillaz: hmm, i'd ask ronoc if there is a way this could be set outside of the window manager, and closer to the sound service
[17:17] <dbarth> if something can intercept the x11 bell event on the root window and take care of that
[17:17] <smspillaz> dbarth: can you show that log to jay .. looks like nux is doing a lot of *weird* stuff there
[17:17] <mpt> kvalo, seb128: Do you think this is true or false: By the time Connection Manager is ready for Ubuntu to use by default, Ubuntu will already be using gnome-control-center by default.
[17:17] <dbarth> the window manager can do everything; but i'm not sure we want to load of the desktop libraries into it
[17:17] <dbarth> smspillaz: ahah, i can try upgrading to the latest branch he's landed first
[17:18] <smspillaz> dbarth: it would be a plugin
[17:18] <smspillaz> dbarth: like a canberra plugin
[17:18] <smspillaz> which just links to libcanberra
[17:18] <dbarth> smspillaz: yeah, but do you want to load everything and the kitchen sink into the compiz adress space?
[17:18] <smspillaz> dbarth: I suppose you could do it using dbus
[17:19] <dbarth> yeah, the only thing is latency
[17:19] <smspillaz> latency is not an issue with sound events
[17:19] <smspillaz> unless it is huge
[17:19] <dbarth> and here i'd like ronoc's feedback on the way to integrate that rationally
[17:19] <smspillaz> ok
[17:19]  * ronoc reads up
[17:20] <dbarth> ronoc: basically, playing the terminal bell sound
[17:20] <kenvandine> didrocks, just fyi, the latest nux build in the dailies ppa breaks unity
[17:21] <dbarth> and the x11 bell event is mostly a legacy feature nowadays right? ie, apps are supposed to plug into a more general sound framework
[17:21] <didrocks> kenvandine: I don't know, the natty version is working fine  :)
[17:21] <didrocks> and I just uploaded it
[17:21] <dbarth> it's only for old school apps that want to use the old bell thing
[17:21] <didrocks> kenvandine: you shouldn't spend the time for the daily ppa I guess :)
[17:21] <smspillaz> didrocks: do you know if bug 683121 was fixed by your session stuff ?
[17:22] <kenvandine> compiz: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/compiz/libunityshell.so: undefined symbol: _ZN3nux10BaseWindow17EnableInputWindowEb
[17:22] <kenvandine> didrocks, indeed
[17:22] <kenvandine> i had forgotten i had added the daily ppa
[17:22] <kenvandine> until it broke right before the meeting :)
[17:22] <didrocks> smspillaz: not at all related to the session stuff, it's the compiz session plugin not being compatible with gnome
[17:22] <kenvandine> unity just needs a rebuild in the ppa
[17:22] <didrocks> kenvandine: hehe, remove it then :)
[17:23] <kenvandine> already did :)
[17:23] <smspillaz> didrocks: was it fixed ?
[17:23] <dbarth> kenvandine: how does it break unity?
[17:23] <dbarth> at the build level? or runtime?
[17:23] <kenvandine> look at the error
[17:23] <kenvandine> runtime
[17:23] <didrocks> smspillaz: ?
[17:23] <kenvandine> symbol lookup failure
[17:23] <smspillaz> didrocks: is that bug fixed?
[17:23] <kenvandine> unity needs to be rebuilt
[17:23] <didrocks> smspillaz: I just assigned the bug to you, it's not fixed then :p
[17:23] <smspillaz> or do I need to look into it
[17:23] <smspillaz> didrocks: ok
[17:24] <dbarth> kenvandine: anyway, it should be obsoleted by the next build run
[17:24] <kenvandine> ok
[17:24] <dbarth> i'll trigger it right now
[17:24] <kenvandine> no worries
[17:24] <dbarth> ie, 0.9.8
[17:24] <didrocks> smspillaz: I think it's some gnome-session integration which doesn't work… not sure if it should be in the session plugin or gnomecompat one
[17:24] <kenvandine> just letting you guys know, i moved back to the stock natty version
[17:24] <didrocks> kenvandine: wise man :)
[17:25] <dbarth> yeah
[17:25] <dbarth> thx ken
[17:26] <ronoc> dbarth, smspillaz sounds like compiz isn't talking to pulse properly ?
[17:26] <ronoc> do you want me to take a look => fix
[17:26] <dbarth> ronoc: and i'm wondering if it should
[17:26] <kenvandine> sounds weird to think of compiz talking to pulse at all :)
[17:26] <ronoc> through libcanberra
[17:26]  * kenvandine really goes to lunch now
[17:27] <dbarth> ronoc: or if we should fix the main apps to use pulse directly, and if some still use the x11 bell, have that trapped by something but the window manager
[17:27] <dbarth> or if the window manager does, whether he can just route that back to something that knows more about the sound theme (over dbus for example)
[17:27] <dbarth> without too much latency; knowing it'd be legacy apps anyway
[17:27] <dbarth> wdyt?
[17:28] <ronoc> dbarth, afaik apps link against libcanberra which talks to pulse
[17:28] <ronoc> am i correct in saying that the problem is compiz is not passing on sound events from apps
[17:28] <dbarth> compiz catches the old x11 bell event
[17:29] <ronoc> when you say catches, do you mean mutes the x11 bell event?
[17:29] <dbarth> metacity does the same and when it receives an x11 event struct on the xerver connection and figures out that it should play a better sound
[17:29] <dbarth> receives
[17:33] <ronoc> dbarth, okay so compiz seems to not notify libcanberra of the event ?
[17:33] <dbarth> i guess it goes something like what'in there: http://www.google.fr/codesearch/p?hl=fr#ErvFMsc8kPE/pub/GNOME/desktop/2.17/2.17.4/sources/metacity-2.17.3.tar.gz%7CKYBqjqtVCks/metacity-2.17.3/src/bell.c&q=metacity%20xevent%20bell&d=8&l=200
[17:34] <dbarth> ronoc: i'm wondering if we could avoid using libcanberra in compiz and just let something out of process deal with the legacy bell thing
[17:34] <ronoc> dbarth, what particular reason do you not want to use libcanberra ?
[17:36] <ronoc> dbarth, what particular reason do you not want to use libcanberra ?
[17:37] <ronoc> what/any
[17:38] <ronoc> let me rephrase jeez
[17:38] <dbarth> ronoc: avoiding the added complexity/dependency in the window manager process space
[17:39] <dbarth> hmm, but wait, libcanberra is mostly making dbus calls to pulse? or it's also streaming the sound samples as well?
[17:39] <ronoc> dbarth, right but libcanberra is designed to handle windowing audio events, gnome-volume control has the volume for canberra exposed appropriately on the UI
[17:39] <ronoc> canberra is a client of the pulse server similar to what the sound service is
[17:39] <ronoc> no dbus, it uses the async api
[17:41] <ronoc> i have never used canberra for anything, its one of lennart's apps. but we should think carefully before removing it
[17:42] <dbarth> ronoc: compiz is /not/ using it for the moment, and i wonder if it should
[17:43] <ronoc> dbarth, well if you want to have sound events from compiz realised then I really should for accessbility etc its a must
[17:43] <ronoc> I/it
[17:44] <nisshh> hey all
[17:44] <nisshh> i am having a very, very strange theming issue with my application
[17:45] <nisshh> is anyone able to help me debug my app?
[17:45] <ronoc> dbarth, what other solution did you have in mind ?
[17:46] <ronoc> dbarth, extend canberra to expose a dbus api to allow it to be controlled over dbus ?
[17:47] <ronoc> frictions in brussels -> http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1130/tax-business.html
[17:47] <lamalex> seb128, for unity-mutter bugs that aren't in unity-compiz yet (ex. dash)- invalid/incomplete/won't fix?
[17:48] <dbarth> hmm, so unity still segfaults on me even with the latest nux packages and my local build of unity trunk
[17:49] <dbarth> ronoc: no, more lilke having the sound service trap the bell event and generate the bell sound with canberra
[17:49] <dbarth> ronoc: ie, letting the window manager out of that game
[17:50] <ronoc> dbarth, could do or just fix compiz so it uses canberra correctly
[17:50] <ronoc> afterall that is what canberra was designed for
[17:52] <dbarth> smspillaz: could it be that it's still a damage event bug? it seems to crash in the composite plugin
[17:52] <dbarth> smspillaz: and i know my GL drivers were already crashing unity/mutter because of uncaught damage events as well
[17:53] <smspillaz> dbarth: radeon?
[17:54] <dbarth> yes
[17:54] <smspillaz> dbarth: I've been getting a *lot* of bug reports that were really bugs in the radeon driver
[17:54] <dbarth> i think this one is another one then
[17:54] <smspillaz> like the driver lying about mipmapping support
[17:54] <smspillaz> and holy fudge there are a lot of bugs being reported
[17:54] <dbarth> do you have a quirks mechanism?
[17:54] <smspillaz> I just got like 50 new bugmails
[17:54] <smspillaz> no, but I can write one
[17:55] <smspillaz> albeit not now
[17:55] <smspillaz> but in the detection plugin we can write a quirks thing to disable mipmap support on dodge drivers
[17:55] <dbarth> ie, we'd like to have something like that in unity to be able to blacklist some driver features based on actual testing on the HW
[17:55] <dbarth> ok, so that quirks mechanism could be shared with compiz
[17:55] <smspillaz> dbarth: jaytaoko: and this is why I love not using GLew in compiz :)
[17:56] <dbarth> ie, be a plugin that can export properties for unity to reuse
[17:56] <smspillaz> dbarth: compiz has internal states set about driver support for certain thing
[17:56] <dbarth> smspillaz: ahah, have a pointer to the code that does that?
[17:56] <smspillaz> dbarth: the detection plugin could just set those states to say "no you don't have that, really, no you don't"
[17:56] <dbarth> or have something in glew
[17:56] <smspillaz> dbarth: yes it's in core/plugins/opengl/include/opengl.h
[17:56] <rickspencer3> dbarth, is there anyone here who knows a lot about themes and can help someone debug a weird issue in theming with a PyGtk app?
[17:57] <dbarth> to update what glew reports, but based on that extra quirks module?
[17:57] <smspillaz> dbarth: glew is harder though because it #defines things into existence
[17:57] <dbarth> ok checking that module
[17:57] <smspillaz> dbarth: have a look at the GL:: namespace
[17:57] <smspillaz> I am pretty sure there is something about mimap and fp support in there
[17:57] <seb128> lamalex, no opinion, I would just tag them to revisit
[17:58] <smspillaz> dbarth: ok so in GL::
[17:58] <smspillaz> we can just neuter generateMipmap (set it to NULL)
[17:59] <smspillaz> or set it to a func that does nothing
[18:00] <smspillaz> dbarth: in fact maybe it would be a good idea to test all of the things in GL:: and neuter the ones we know don't work
[18:00] <dbarth> yes, something like that
[18:00] <dbarth> i don't see the particular bits in opengl.h that would do that
[18:01] <smspillaz> dbarth: the workarounds plugin already does this
[18:01] <dbarth> anyway, it's something to see with jaytaoko and DBO i think
[18:01] <dbarth> ahah
[18:01] <smspillaz> dbarth: http://git.compiz.org/compiz/plugins/workarounds/tree/src/workarounds.cpp#n408
[18:02] <jaytaoko> smspillaz: you are trying to compensate for issues in the driver... this approach is extreme, you re-route opengl call to other functions in order to avoid the problems... while noble, i think that the issue should be fixed on the driver side...
[18:02] <smspillaz> jaytaoko: indeed. and this is why we *never* do this in core
[18:02] <smspillaz> jaytaoko: these fixes are there only for the user
[18:02] <smspillaz> so we report the bug in the driver
[18:02] <dbarth> both approaches have merits and will be needed for unity
[18:03] <dbarth> pushing bug reports to driver developers at the beginning of the cycle
[18:03] <dbarth> while activating workarounds for those bugs that are not fixed more at the end of the cycle
[18:03] <smspillaz> jaytaoko: historically the ones we have kept are for a) when the hardware is broken *COUGH* INTEL *COUGH* or b) lazy propertietary drivers *COUGH* FGLRX *COUGH*
[18:03] <dbarth> sounds like it's getting cold in Australia as well ;)
[18:04] <smspillaz> dbarth: it was 39C today :(
[18:04] <smspillaz> can't program when it's hot
[18:04] <smspillaz> I drank like 12 glasses of water
[18:04] <dbarth> eh
[18:04] <smspillaz> dbarth: yeah yeah I know you guys have -15C
[18:05] <smspillaz> night all
[18:05] <jaytaoko> smspillaz: to what extend do you have fixes for these issues... are you starting to have a big list of fixes?
[18:05] <smspillaz> jaytaoko: small list
[18:05] <smspillaz> jaytaoko: the only other one I am thinking of neutering right now is the broken mipmapping support in the radeon driver
[18:05] <smspillaz> because it segfaults in the driver
[18:06] <jaytaoko> smspillaz: ok, we will talk about it soon
[18:06] <smspillaz> yeah
[18:06] <smspillaz> well basically it's the radeon guy's fix
[18:06] <smspillaz> just that if it does not get fixed then mimapping is not critical for us
[18:06] <jaytaoko> smspillaz: ok
[18:06] <smspillaz> and we can put it in the detection plugin to re-route those calls
[18:08] <smspillaz> jaytaoko: I'd be far more worried if we were having to do crazy things like re-route glXBindTexImage2D because of some driver issue
[18:08] <smspillaz> *glXBindTexImageEXT
[18:08] <jaytaoko> smspillaz: that would be crazy indeed
[18:09] <smspillaz> jaytaoko: have a guess which driver we had to do that for for a while
[18:09] <smspillaz> jaytaoko: it starts with "i" and ends with "ntel" ;-)
[18:09] <jaytaoko> smspillaz: :)
[18:09] <smspillaz> ok, I'mma sleep now :)
[18:09] <smspillaz> night all
[18:09] <jaytaoko> smspillaz: take care!
[18:12] <rickspencer3> dbarth, ??
[18:13] <dbarth> rickspencer3: what's up?
[18:13] <dbarth> did i miss a ping? i'm having network issue with freenode
[18:13] <rickspencer3> dbarth, is there anyone here who knows a lot about themes and can help someone debug a weird issue in theming with a PyGtk app?
[18:13] <dbarth> uh, cimi does yes
[18:14] <lamalex> jaytaoko, http://pastebin.com/qB3runUj
[18:19] <lamalex> DBO, smspillaz, johnlea, is there a public spec for alt-tab
[18:20] <dbarth> lamalex: not yet no, i don't think so
[18:20] <dbarth> lamalex: they haven't even finished the initial design
[18:22] <Cimi> here I am
[18:22] <Cimi> who needs the theming guy? :)
[18:22] <rickspencer3> hi Cimi
[18:22] <Cimi> hi rick
[18:23] <rickspencer3> nisshh, Cimi may be able to spend a few minutes helping you get unstucj
[18:23] <rickspencer3> unstuck, even
[18:23] <Cimi> yeah, sure
[18:23] <rickspencer3> Cimi, the app is lp:pytask
[18:23] <Cimi> and which is the visible issue?
[18:24] <nisshh> Cimi, my app turns negro
[18:24] <rickspencer3> well, when you run it, it's got a weird black theme
[18:24] <Cimi> ok
[18:24] <Cimi> it could be that your app is using a widget name that interference with the panel widgets
[18:25] <nisshh> ok
[18:25] <Cimi> I mean, I am using some stars (*) in the widget naming matching for the panel, so at first glance and without seeing the code I guess this could be the issue
[18:25] <nisshh> yeah
[18:26] <nisshh> Cimi, but would that cause *all* the widgets inside the window to turn black?
[18:27] <Cimi> let me try your app
[18:27] <nisshh> because it isnt just one or two of the widgets
[18:27] <nisshh> ok
[18:27] <nisshh> Cimi, you will need the quickly-widgets package installed, which you may not have installed already
[18:28] <Cimi> I don't
[18:28] <rickspencer3> $sudo apt-get install quickly-widgets
[18:28] <nisshh> Cimi, also, this issue only happens when the default ubuntu ambiance/radiance themes are in use, any other theme and it works fine
[18:28] <Cimi> I know dude, rickspencer3 :P
[18:28] <nisshh> hehe
[18:29] <rickspencer3> Cimi, you mean I've demo'd it that much ?
[18:29] <Cimi> nisshh: no worries, I'll fix it
[18:29] <nisshh> Cimi, oh, you know what the issue is already?
[18:29] <Cimi> rickspencer3: :P
[18:29] <rickspencer3> I assumed no one knows about quickly-widgets unless I tell them about it directly :)
[18:29] <nisshh> rickspencer3, so not true :)
[18:31] <Cimi> nisshh: figure it out, need to look at your code
[18:31] <sense> The Sound Menu stopped accepting scroll events.
[18:32] <Cimi> essentially, the line widget "*task*" style "panel_task_button", used for the task list button, is broken
[18:32] <Cimi> I mean, it's not borken but it's applying to your widgets as well
[18:33] <Cimi> I can either: try to fix it in the theme
[18:33] <Cimi> or, if you want a quicker fix, use a different widget naming in your app
[18:33] <Cimi> (but in the future, when I'll have more time to work on the theme, I'd like to fix the naming matching)
[18:34] <nisshh> Cimi, i see, let me just look at my code
[18:35] <nisshh> Cimi, could you be more specific about which widget is broken? i dont understand which one your reffering too
[18:36] <Cimi> mmm
[18:37] <Cimi> that's more a bug in my theme, though
[18:38] <nisshh> Cimi, if you fixed it in your theme, how long until the fix would land in ubuntu?
[18:38] <nisshh> before natty final?
[18:40] <Cimi> for sure
[18:40] <Cimi> I can provide a one-line patch right now
[18:40] <Cimi> but I would like to have a little bit more investigation
[18:41] <nisshh> Cimi, sure
[18:42] <nisshh> Cimi, it would be great to get it fixed in my code first, i want to release the next version of my app asap
[18:42] <Cimi> nisshh: it's not a bug in your code
[18:42] <Cimi> it's in my code
[18:43] <nisshh> Cimi, oh, but you said that i could fix it in my code by changing a widgets name or some such?
[18:43] <Cimi> the problem is that your widgets are called Pytask*
[18:43] <nisshh> and the asterisk is the problem?
[18:44] <Cimi> and my theme is matching all widgets with the name *task*
[18:44] <Cimi> yeah
[18:44] <nisshh> oh i see
[18:44] <Cimi> you could "fix" by changing everything to PyTask*
[18:44] <nisshh> yeah
[18:44] <Cimi> but that's a lot of work for you, and as I said, the problem is in my code
[18:44] <nisshh> yeah
[18:45] <nisshh> Cimi, i think if you could fix it in your code, it would be best
[18:45] <Cimi> I think that too
[18:45] <Cimi> :)
[18:45] <nisshh> hehe
[18:45] <Cimi> but I am working on other things
[18:45] <nisshh> fair enough
[18:45] <Cimi> I'll have a further look tomorrow maybe
[18:45] <nisshh> Cimi, want me to log a bug somewhere and assign it to you so you remember?
[18:46] <Cimi> that would be better
[18:46] <nisshh> sure
[18:46] <nisshh> Cimi, where do you want the bug logged? launchpad?
[18:46] <Cimi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+filebug
[18:47] <nisshh> cool
[18:48] <nisshh> Cimi, what should i describe it as? "naming conflict in theme"?
[18:48] <rickspencer3> nisshh, how hard is it to change that in PyTask?
[18:49] <nisshh> rickspencer3, well, im not too sure, but there are a lot of places where Quickly used Pytask as a name for stuff :|
[18:49] <rickspencer3> oh, fudge
[18:49] <rickspencer3> it's the "task" part
[18:49] <rickspencer3> haha
[18:49] <nisshh> yeah
[18:49] <Cimi> nisshh: wrong widget matching
[18:49] <nisshh> Cimi, righto
[18:50] <rickspencer3> uh, so does this mean that nisshh has to wait for an SRU or something?
[18:50] <Cimi> something
[18:50] <rickspencer3> Cimi, well, if he wants to release this on Maverick, he'll have to work around it, I guess
[18:50] <Cimi> and, to be honest, that's a bug that we have for years maybe
[18:50] <Cimi> cause I grabbed that code from light-themes in 10.04
[18:50] <nisshh> rickspencer3, im happy for it to be fixed in natty, i dont need it SRU'd back to maverick tbh
[18:50] <Cimi> and I did nor write them
[18:51] <Cimi> I just need to open gnome-panel source code and read the right matching
[18:51] <nisshh> yeah
[18:51] <rickspencer3> nisshh, but then how can you release PyTask in maverick?
[18:51] <nisshh> rickspencer3, even though i am releasing for maverick
[18:51] <Cimi> dark is nice though AHAHA
[18:51] <nisshh> rickspencer3, people will just have to put up with it until natty i guess
[18:52] <rickspencer3> nisshh, hmm, I wonder if we can work around it with some copy and replace
[18:52] <Cimi> nisshh: I'd bet it'll be broken in lucid too
[18:52] <rickspencer3> it wasn't broken in Lucid, I think
[18:52] <nisshh> Cimi, well, my widgets didnt start turning black until maverick beta
[18:52] <rickspencer3> anyway, I have to dash, bbiab
[18:52] <nisshh> rickspencer3, its possible, but it would be annoying, tbh
[18:53] <rickspencer3> thaks Cimi
[18:53] <Cimi> rickspencer3: yw
[18:54] <nisshh> Cimi, whats your launchpad ID ill assign the bug to you
[18:54] <Cimi> cimi
[18:55] <nisshh> meh, dumb launchpad cant find you :)
[18:56] <Cimi> lol
[18:56] <Cimi> try searching for andrea cimitan
[18:56] <nisshh> ok
[18:56] <nisshh> nope :)|
[18:59] <nisshh> Cimi, ok, launchpad is playing dumb with me here, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/683290 <-- maybe just assign yourself :)
[18:59] <Cimi> nisshh: done, thanks
[19:00] <nisshh> Cimi, cool, thanks heaps for your help :)
[19:00] <Cimi> nisshh: yw and sorry for my bug
[19:01] <nisshh> hehe, i stumped all of us when it turned out to be simple, it happens :)
[19:01] <nisshh> it*
[19:11] <jcastro> thanks to whoever made ctrl-alt-t work in the last update
[19:13] <dbarth> jcastro: probably didrocks; that's a key feature indeed ;)
[19:15] <jcastro> great update this week dbarth
[19:15] <didrocks> jcastro: dbarth: well TBH, I just fixed binding again to GNOME keys… the ctrl - alt - t was discussed for the first unity version :)
[19:15] <didrocks> jcastro: it's already built?
[19:15] <jcastro> the ability to add/remove things to the launcher was keeping me off fulltiming it
[19:15] <didrocks> (and published)
[19:15] <jcastro> didrocks: yessir!
[19:15] <didrocks> nice! :)
[19:15] <didrocks> so it's only when I update things at 8PM on Friday evening that I have to check until 2 AM that it's built :)
[19:16] <didrocks> (well, checking with a better is a nicer checking on Friday evening :))
[19:16] <jcastro> heh
[19:16] <didrocks> beer*
[19:18] <dbarth> great!
[19:18] <kenvandine> unity is looking pretty nice now... with this latest update
[19:18] <kenvandine> quick lists look great
[19:18] <jcastro> indeed
[19:19] <jcastro> just in time for A1!
[19:19] <kenvandine> although now my hack to get quicklists in gwibber without displaying the appindicator icon doesn't work...
[19:19] <kenvandine> unity honors the status like it should :)
[19:24] <jcastro> ooh, I like the minimize animation
[19:27] <didrocks> jcastro: thanks DBO for it :)
[19:28] <jcastro> didrocks: so did you end up keeping  the panel running underneath?
[19:28] <didrocks> jcastro: no more panel
[19:28] <jcastro> didrocks: oh also, I too get a bunch of session garbage on logout
[19:28] <didrocks> jcastro: only in the gnome-classic session
[19:28] <jcastro> didrocks: good so I can close that bug then
[19:28] <DBO> gotta make minimize + right click != fail
[19:28] <DBO> erm
[19:28] <didrocks> jcastro: oh yes please, I think I opened the tab…
[19:28] <DBO> hide + right click != fail
[19:28] <didrocks> not sure if I closed the bug :)
[19:29] <jcastro> DBO: your window matching fails with chromed webapps
[19:29] <DBO> jcastro, it should match to chrome
[19:30] <jcastro> nope, if I minimize the webapp, and then chrome and I click on the icon, the browser disappears
[19:30] <jcastro> it only exposes the webapp
[19:30] <DBO> hwat?
[19:30] <jcastro> DBO: aha, only when I minimize
[19:31] <jcastro> open a webapp that you've made a shortcut of
[19:31] <DBO> I dont have any
[19:31] <jcastro> then open the browser itself
[19:31] <DBO> how do I make one?
[19:31] <jcastro> in the wrench menu
[19:31] <jcastro> tools
[19:31] <jcastro> create application shortcuts
[19:31] <jcastro> then choose desktop or something
[19:31] <jcastro> then run that
[19:31] <jcastro> run the browser by itself after
[19:31] <jcastro> then minimize them both
[19:32] <jcastro> now try to get them back
[19:32] <DBO> okay...
[19:32] <DBO> hold on
[19:32] <DBO> okay web apps are a TERRIBLE corner case
[19:33] <didrocks> fagan: can you report compiz issue against compiz please? :)
[19:33] <jcastro> yeah I was just pointing it out
[19:33] <DBO> chromium runs all of its windows in teh same browser
[19:33] <DBO> all of its windows in the same process
[19:33] <jcastro> you know, other than the millions upon millions of users
[19:33] <fagan> didrocks: oh cool
[19:33] <DBO> that ASSHOLE
[19:33] <didrocks> fagan: speaking about https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/683303
[19:33] <DBO> jcastro, it actually matters which window you open first
[19:33] <fagan> didrocks: yeah I got that
[19:34] <jcastro> didrocks: is this bitesizeable? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/683241
[19:34] <didrocks> jcastro: yep, fire the tag!
[19:34] <didrocks> fagan: you should get apport catching it
[19:34] <didrocks> fagan: look at #ubuntu-devel, I explained sebner how to do it
[19:34] <fagan> didrocks: It apport didnt pick it up
[19:34] <fagan> just seems to break out somewhere
[19:35] <DBO> running logically independent things in separate processes should be considered tantamount to evil
[19:35] <didrocks> fagan: is apport enabled on your machine?
[19:35] <DBO> erm
[19:35] <DBO> logically independant things in the same process
[19:35] <didrocks> fagan: did you read the discussion I just pointed you at?
[19:35] <DBO> i need a nap
[19:36] <fagan> didrocks: I thought it was already turned on in natty
[19:36] <didrocks> fagan: no, it's not by default yet
[19:36] <didrocks> too early in the release
[19:36] <fagan> didrocks: ah ill do it then
[19:36] <didrocks> fagan: thanks :)
[19:37] <didrocks> fagan: marking your bug as incomplete, just let apport firing up another one against compiz
[19:38] <fagan> cool I just turned it on
[19:40] <didrocks> starts the apport service as well
[19:40] <jcastro> dbarth: is webapp support low? if if it is I'd like to bitesize the lot of them sitting in lp
[19:40] <jcastro> like this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/660157
[19:40] <jcastro> though we no longer have a unity binary it seems
[19:41] <fagan> didrocks: its an assertion failure according to apport
[19:41] <fagan> so its not going to work like that
[19:41] <didrocks> fagan: ok, just report the stack :)
[19:42] <didrocks> assert are also triggered
[19:42]  * fagan gets a copy of the stack :)
[19:50] <fagan> yay got more info the easy way
[19:56] <fagan> I can now see where its going wrong but I really dont have a clue what it is
[19:57] <fagan> its chromium's fault I think
[20:25] <kvalo> cyphermox: yes, please also include the patch 9 if possible. the new wifi plugin is the future, better start using it early on
[20:33] <didrocks> jcastro: I'll try to get for tomorrow a list of bytesize bug
[20:34] <jcastro> didrocks: yeah I am eyeballing a bunch of Low ones now
[20:52] <cyphermox> kvalo, alright... but isn't there a better way to do this? with legacy support, is your stuff broken?
[20:53] <cyphermox> kvalo, the thing is, I'd like to avoid huge unnecessary changes, especially if this means possibly removing support for older hardware, because I want to upload the new connman to Debian too
[21:05] <kvalo> cyphermox: I need to leave now, so I'll be really quick
[21:06] <kvalo> cyphermox: other option is to revert the priorities of the two plugins and have the new plugin higher priority
[21:07] <cyphermox> kvalo, don't worry about it, I added the patch
[21:07] <kvalo> cyphermox: the new wifi plugin is basically a rewrite of the old legacy plugin and fixing few ugly parts. biggest issues were blocking dbus calls and using the old (and sucky) wpas dbus intrface
[21:08] <kvalo> cyphermox: in theory the new wifi plugin should support exactly the same hardware as the old plugin. but as we have seen many times, theory and reality doesn't match :)
[21:10] <kvalo> cyphermox: but I consider the legacy wifi plugin dead and would not want to waste any time on it anymore in ubuntu, hence my push for the new plugin
[21:10] <kvalo> but I need to get sleep now, bye


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