[00:48] <diddledan> my gps unit seems to be having issue getting a fix
[00:48] <diddledan> the RMC and GGA timestamps are pretty accurate, though but they appear to be the only things it's actually sensing
[01:11] <diddledan> omg, it's actually getting somewhere
[01:13] <diddledan> got five signals responding
[01:13] <diddledan> three
[01:13] <diddledan> hmmm
[01:15] <diddledan> that's better, I've oriented the unit a bit differently now
[01:16] <diddledan> AND I'm FIXED
[01:17] <diddledan> ok, I'm at Long 1.123546W and Lat 51.267931N
[01:17]  * diddledan needs a map to verify it
[05:44] <MartijnVdS> http://zachholman.com/posts/only-90s-developers/
[06:12] <mapps> good morning MartijnVdS
[06:42] <MooDoo> morning all
[06:43] <mapps> morning mate
[06:44] <MooDoo> lots on here this early :)
[06:48] <jussi> o/
[06:52] <mapps> im going to sleep soon..i work nights
[06:52] <mapps> jussi prob been up for ages:D is finland +2?
[06:52] <MooDoo> nn :)
[07:02] <jussi> mapps: yup
[07:17] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:17] <MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS
[07:58] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:58] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon how goes the way?
[07:58] <MooDoo> war?
[07:58] <brobostigon> which war?
[08:06] <MooDoo> brobostigon: the war of life :)
[08:14] <MartijnVdS> the war of the worlds!
[08:16] <brobostigon> MooDoo: another ~60 years of slow motion train crash, when both the train will crash and death,
[08:20] <SuperMat1> morning
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> \o SuperMat1
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> you lost a t
[08:20] <SuperMat1> I did!
[08:20] <SuperMatt> phew
[08:20] <MooDoo> morning SuperMat1 how are you?
[08:21] <SuperMatt> I'm glad that's sorted
[08:21] <SuperMatt> I'm going
[08:21] <MooDoo> hows the job going?
[08:21] <SuperMatt> I'm good, is what I meant to type
[08:21] <SuperMatt> job is going well
[08:21] <SuperMatt> finally working as part of the team, rather than sitting through training!
[08:21] <MooDoo> brill
[08:21] <SuperMatt> how are you doing?
[08:21] <MooDoo> yeah ok thanks :D
[08:24] <SuperMatt> excellent :)
[08:27] <jussi> hrm, any piano players here? ikonia are you around ?
[08:27] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: I started a new website lol ubuntu.technology :D
[08:27] <jussi> MooDoo: hahah
[08:28] <SuperMatt> MooDoo: nice
[08:28] <jussi> MooDoo: I think we should buy Winfail.tech
[08:28] <jussi> and make a post your windows fails type website
[08:28] <jussi> you in? :D
[08:29] <MooDoo> jussi: lol sounds good :)  then people can upload their windows failure spotted images :) blue screens on cash machines or airport monitors lol
[08:29] <jussi> MooDoo: exactly
[08:30] <MooDoo> hehe
[08:43] <diplo> Morning all
[08:43] <MooDoo> morning diplo
[09:06] <jussi> I feel like garfield...
[09:06] <jussi> LASAGNE!!!!!!!!!
[09:06] <jussi> NOM!!!!!!
[09:08] <MooDoo> I've given up meat for the week
[09:09] <jussi> MooDoo: soy lasagne!
[09:09] <popey> mmmmm meat
[09:09] <popey> http://drool.popey.com/
[09:09] <MooDoo> just a personal challenge for the week
[09:09] <jussi> popey: I swear you must have an alias for that...
[09:10] <jussi> MooDoo: Ramen everyday.... :P
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> jussi: Windows everyday?!
[09:15] <jussi> MartijnVdS: ssh
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> jussi: not rdp?! ;)
[09:15] <jussi> lol
[09:15] <popey> jussi: i do not. i type it
[09:15] <popey> i do have *some* aliases. just not that one
[09:15] <jussi> MartijnVdS: you are in fine form today :)
[09:18] <jussi> popey: :D
[09:19] <popey>  (ʘ∇ʘ)ク 彡 ┻━┻
[09:19] <popey> for example
[09:19] <jussi> ᵔᴥᵔ
[09:19] <jussi> do you like my cat? :D
[09:19] <popey> awwwww
[09:20] <jussi> awww
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
[09:20] <popey> (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
[09:20] <popey> \o/
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> ( ̲̅:̲̅:̲̅:̲̅[̲̅ ̲̅]̲̅:̲̅:̲̅:̲̅)
[09:20] <MooDoo> huh my irssi has just broke lol
[09:21] <MooDoo> everything has just corrupted :S
[09:21] <jussi> MooDoo: did the cat pee on it? :D
[09:21] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy For Pete’s Sake Day! :-D
[09:21] <MooDoo> jussi: lol
[09:21] <MooDoo> morning JamesTait
[09:21] <jussi> JamesTait: which pete? :P
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Pete's japanese alcoholic drink?
[09:22] <JamesTait> jussi, I wish I knew.  A lot seems to get done for his sake.
[09:22] <jussi> JamesTait: hehe
[09:23] <jussi> I think maybe it isnt just MartijnVdS being in fine form today, its the whole channel! \o/
[09:23] <popey> MartijnVdS: is that a belt?
[09:23] <MooDoo> it's hump day, that's why everyone is excitable.
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhesive_bandage
[09:24] <popey> oh the new samsung
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> I've seen a few Samsung announcements this week. Which one?
[09:25] <MooDoo> getting pretty horrific reviews. lol
[09:25] <popey> MartijnVdS: https://plus.google.com/u/0/105555694224602845621/posts/4MMKEZdxqH5
[09:25] <jussi> hehe
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> popey: haha :) win
[09:25] <jussi> that was funny
[09:26] <popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/105555694224602845621/posts/Wphm5bqFoqm also
[09:26] <MooDoo> popey: ah that's the one I was looking for lol
[09:26] <DJones> Must admit I'm glad I'm not due to upgrade phones yet, I want to see how the S5/New HTC One X/UBuntu phones compare
[09:27] <MartijnVdS> <ensue relentless mocking>
[09:28] <popey> hey, is there a quick way to generate ascii graphs?
[09:28] <popey> or even graphical ones, on the command line
[09:28] <MartijnVdS> popey: what's the source data?
[09:28] <MartijnVdS> just a bunch of numbers?
[09:28] <popey> i want to do "see how many files there are in each directory below me, and plot the number of them on a graph"
[09:28] <DJones> popey: Is there a rough idea (as in spring/summer/autumn) when the Ubuntu phone specs are likely to be released
[09:28] <popey> results of ls */*.click | wc -l
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6949332/in-terminal-ascii-histograms-tool
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> popey: that links to https://github.com/bitly/data_hacks which looks like it would work
[09:29] <SuperMatt> ok, it's time for me to create an sdk app
[09:29] <SuperMatt> wish me luck o/
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Good luck!
[09:30] <popey> ok, will play
[09:30] <popey> ta
[09:30] <SuperMatt> It's  my monthly development day, so I'm going to write an app which can upload files to rackspace/openstack containers
[09:31]  * SuperMatt continues drinking the company coolaid
[09:31] <SuperMatt> Koolaid?
[09:31] <SuperMatt> I don't know
[09:31] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: dev day?  is that rackspaces equiv of googles 10% time?
[09:31] <SuperMatt> sure
[09:31] <MooDoo> awesome
[09:31] <SuperMatt> except it's totally not 10%
[09:31] <SuperMatt> probably closer to 2.5%
[09:31] <MooDoo> I know that's what google has, nearest thing I could relate it too
[09:32] <SuperMatt> I don't think they have it any more though
[09:32] <MooDoo> ah
[09:42] <diplo> Got my sisters S3 with cracked screen/lcd.. anyone know if there is a way to retreive contacts off ( she didn't sync anywhere and no sd card ) off of it, but it has a locked screen that I can't unlock
[09:42] <diplo> I've found a few ways like take motherboard out into another s3, undo certain cables etc
[09:42] <diplo> Not ideally what I'd like to do
[09:43] <dwatkins> I assume the screen being broken is the reason it won't unlock, diplo
[09:43] <diplo> Yep, I don't know if the lcd is working as I can't see anything, I'm guessing where the keypad is and typing but don't know :)
[09:43] <bashrc> what's the cheapest phone to test Ubuntu Touch on?
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: an old Galaxy Nexus, but it'll be *slow*
[09:44] <bashrc> ah
[09:44] <bashrc> I was looking at the nexus prices.  They look super expensive
[09:45] <ali1234> diplo: there's various software that can bypass the keylock on samsung phones
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: nah, nexuses are cheap compared to other phones really
[09:47] <ali1234> galaxy nexus isn't supported any more
[09:48] <diplo> Oh there is? My google foo is sucking this morning
[09:48] <bashrc> well, my current mobile phone cost £7 from the Tesco bargain bin :)
[09:48] <dwatkins> If you could unlock it, something like AirDroid would let you get the contacts off, but if that's not already installed (and running) I don't think you can get the contacts off the phone, as they're probably not stored on the MicroSD card.
[09:49] <diplo> Yeah, airdroid or the hdmi type cable
[09:49] <diplo> But neither are installed currently
[10:02] <dwatkins> when I reboot my phone, it locks the screen first of all, so that won't help either
[10:10] <diplo> yeah some people have said if you're quick with Kies on start up you can get into contacts before it locks
[10:10] <diplo> Doesn't work :)
[10:54] <DJones> MooDoo: Following the comments in -irc, thats probably the wrong channel for discussion so moved back here, was that the price for Office 365
[10:55] <MooDoo> DJones: just checking lol :) yeah I kinda thought that when i typed it
[10:56] <MooDoo> DJones: http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/home-premium/ £7.99 a month, £79.99 a year
[10:56] <MooDoo> you can install it on 5 machnes.
[10:58] <DJones> That might be worth thinking about, specially being able to install on 5 machines, I'd want it on my work desktop, "work" laptop and probably have to put it on my wifes laptop just in case I have to use her machine for work
[10:58] <MooDoo> DJones: my wife has just started a course, so although I have it on mine already, I can no install it on hers.
[11:00] <DJones> And it comes with Publisher, thats the one MS app that I've never really found a reasonable equivalent for on linux
[11:00] <MooDoo> it does indeed :D
[11:01] <popey> \o/ no ms office in this house
[11:01] <popey> kids and wifey use libreoffice only
[11:01] <MooDoo> pah the dental course my wifes just started they say MS office for some reason :S
[11:02] <popey> ho ho ho
[11:02] <popey> nothing changes
[11:02] <MooDoo> £7.99 aint to bad I suppose, still it's not free
[11:04] <Laney> will it actually matter in reality?
[11:05] <MooDoo> Laney: the price?  nah!
[11:06] <Laney> not the price
[11:06] <Laney> whether you actually use that or LO
[11:06] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:06] <MooDoo> Laney: she needs publisher :)
[11:06] <Laney> afternoon davmor2
[11:06] <MooDoo> hello davmor2
[11:06] <Laney> PUBLISHER?!?!?!$"£>%£W$>TJSLGSD
[11:06] <DJones> I normally use LibreOffice at work, but now and again, there are some documents I get sent that have to be filled in and don't convert well enough
[11:07] <Laney> I used to use that loads back in the day
[11:10] <DJones> MooDoo: Does the £7.99 version actually install a full office release, or is that just the web apps version
[11:11] <MartijnVdS> DJones: I think it's both?
[11:12] <DJones> Just had visions of needing an always on internet connection which wouldn't be good for a laptop
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> oh it probably needs an internet connection often
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> to check if you've paid
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> etc.
[11:13] <DJones> That wouldn't be an issue, 999 out of 1000 uses, it'd be connected anyway
[11:13] <MooDoo> DJones: you install it on your machine
[11:14] <DJones> MooDoo: Ta, thats what I was hoping
[11:14] <MooDoo> http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/home-premium/#FAQs
[11:14] <MooDoo> Is Internet access required for Office? read that
[11:14] <MooDoo> you need win 7 / 8 or mac os
[11:17] <DJones> I think that will do, maybe have to go for the small business premium version, but still not bad
[11:17] <MooDoo> It'll do me :D
[11:18] <DJones> :)
[11:18] <foobarry> so i tried out this twitter game. completed it already
[11:18] <foobarry> maybe i wasn't playingon hard mode
[11:19] <MooDoo> twitter game?
[11:19] <Laney> what's hard mode?
[11:19] <Laney> being a female public figure I guess
[11:19] <foobarry> where you create an accoutn and try to get maximum coverage of your tweets starting from 0 followers and 0 tweets
[11:19] <foobarry> i won it by my 2nd tweet
[11:19] <foobarry> > 100,000 people saw it
[11:20] <foobarry> other tweets getting big retweets and stuff
[11:20] <foobarry> bored now. too easy
[11:20] <popey> http://mrmine.com/ is fun
[11:20] <popey> basic, but fun
[11:20] <foobarry> don't think i'll try the millioon followers thing
[11:20] <popey> thinking of making a similar thing in scratch with my codeclub
[11:21] <DJones> OH BUGGER..Just realised, I'm going to have to UEFI
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> DJones: nothing wrong with uefi
[11:24] <DJones> MartijnVdS: Probably not once your used to it, but after seeing som many horror stories, it'll be an interesting experience
[11:31] <foobarry> got another retweet " To 62939 followers."
[11:31] <foobarry> :P
[11:32] <popey> what is this game?
[11:32] <foobarry> isn't that what tiwtter is about?
[11:32] <foobarry> write things and see how many retweets you get
[11:32] <directhex> i win at twitter!
[11:35] <kvarley> As soon as I add "Match User kevin" to my sshd_config file SSH stops working. why?
[11:35] <DJones> I've seen a couple, people are deliberatly writing inflamatory comments to get more responses/retweets though
[11:35] <DJones> And generally things they don't normally bother with
[11:36] <kvarley> Oh lol, put the match statement in the wrong place
[11:40] <dwatkins> How can I check an e-mail address is valid without sending it a mail?
[11:40] <dwatkins> I tried telnetting to port 25 of the mail server, but it threw me out, probably because I'm not on the whitelist.
[11:42] <diplo> You can't really can you, that would be spammers heaven ?
[11:42] <dwatkins> ah yes, good point
[11:42] <diplo> you can check the domain is a valid domain and has mx records
[11:42] <diplo> ?
[11:42] <diplo> And then it's down to the mail server to accept or deny
[11:42] <dwatkins> yeah, it uses messagelabs as its MX record
[11:43] <knightwise> evening everyone
[11:43] <dwatkins> probably for spam filtering, like postini
[11:43] <dwatkins> morning knightwise
[11:43] <diplo> Yeah I used to use messagelabs at my last place
[11:43] <diplo> Did a good job at the time tbh
[11:43] <diplo> morning knightwise
[11:44] <daubers> Morning all, don't forget that Everything is Awesome!
[11:44] <dwatkins> my colleague is collecting boxes for recycling, but I reckon he's building one of these: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/6282
[11:44] <dwatkins> Everything is Awesome :D
[11:44] <diplo> Talking of pi's - any updates on the ubuntu build ?
[11:45]  * dwatkins is a bit disillusioned about Kickstarter after the SuperToy debacle, but has faith in AlanBell
[11:45] <diplo> dwatkins: that is awesome, I'd love to do stuff like that for my boys
[11:46] <dwatkins> diplo: I had a piece of wood with some light switches on when I was little, thought it was fantastic ;)
[11:46] <diplo> My son really wants to build something ( eldest ) but my other son doesn't sit well doing stuff like that, find it very hard as a single parent doing stuff like that when I have both of them
[11:47] <MooDoo> diplo: my 5 yr old loves minecraft at the moment :)
[11:47] <popey> yeah, my kids too
[11:48] <diplo> Yeah, I've leant my 360 to a friend for the last month, must get it back
[11:48] <jussi> popey: you are evil. That mining game is addictive.
[11:48] <popey> haha
[11:49] <popey> jussi: I am down to 68KM
[11:49] <popey> $80M
[11:49] <jussi> Im at 15km
[11:49] <popey> it's one you can just leave running and come back to when you have a cup of tea
[11:49] <MooDoo> jussi: mining game?
[11:49] <jussi> MooDoo: http://mrmine.com/
[11:49] <MooDoo> ta
[11:49] <diplo> I'm at 11km :/
[11:50] <diplo> I really should be working :)
[11:51] <jussi> diplo: me also...
[11:51] <Laney> is it like cookie clicker?
[11:51] <daubers> Any openstack people about? Could do with a few pointers :)
[11:52] <MooDoo> lol you can just leave this game to do it's stuff
[11:53] <knightwise> hey guys ,
[11:53] <MooDoo> hello
[11:54] <knightwise> quick question. do you guys know of a self hosted IM app that supports encryption ?
[11:54] <knightwise> i'm looking for a communication client/server for a small company
[11:55] <directhex> self-host XMPP with Prosody, install Pidgin with OTR on all clients
[11:56] <knightwise> And then use a xmpp compatible client on android  ?
[11:56] <MattJ> XMPP \o/
[11:56] <MattJ> Prosody \o/
[11:56] <dwatkins> I've been considering using Telegram, but havn't looked into it yet.
[11:56]  * diplo thinks MattJ has prosody on highlight?
[11:56] <MattJ> Highly recommend Yaxim on Android, the only thing missing is MUC (chatroom) support
[11:56] <MattJ> diplo, and XMPP, and Jabber
[11:56] <diplo> heh
[11:57] <knightwise> ok , gonna have a peek , sounds interesting;
[11:58] <bashrc> knightwise: I use prosody as an XMPP server.  Instructions here http://freedombone.uk.to/#sec-4.21
[12:00] <dwatkins> arg, I've used Windows too much today, I keep writing my slashes the wrong way around
[12:03] <jussi> popey: can you increase the capacity at all?
[12:03] <popey> yes
[12:03] <popey> craft cargo bays
[12:04] <diplo> Need gold for that :)
[12:04] <popey> hire men
[12:04] <diplo> yeah got 5 on the go now
[12:04] <popey> heh
[12:04] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[12:04] <jussi> popey: ahh yes, now I see... I was crafting stuff but hadnt equipped it
[12:04] <MattJ> bashrc, nice guide... yours?
[12:05] <bashrc> yes
[12:05] <bashrc> a guide created from hours of faffing about
[12:07] <MooDoo> need to find gold lol
[12:08] <jussi> MooDoo: I just made it to 20km
[12:09] <MooDoo> jussi: 16 at the moment, but I need gold to craft bigger storage :D
[12:11] <knightwise> bashrc: thanx !
[12:12] <foobarry> anyone do i/o performance checking on their kit?
[12:12] <foobarry> what read speeds do you get?
[12:12] <jussi> MooDoo: oooh, just got my first platinum
[12:13] <MooDoo> jussi: you have to watch this rof your out of capacity lol
[12:13] <jussi> oh, btw
[12:14] <jussi> if anyone wants to play, referral time! http://mrmine.com/index.php?r=9115672114224 :D
[12:14] <bashrc> knightwise: also in a small company setting I've found that IRC is really useful for team cohesion
[12:16] <jussi> lol, one of the rewards is "talk to the golem" :P
[12:18] <knightwise> bashrc: but irc is clear text .. no ?
[12:18] <popey> knightwise: not if you connect securely
[12:19] <bashrc> knightwise: you can set up IRC with a password and using SSL.  Instructions here: http://freedombone.uk.to/#sec-4.20
[12:20] <bashrc> The main advantage of IRC over IM is that you can have multiple participants
[12:20] <bashrc> whereas IM is usually just 1-on-1
[12:20] <jussi> bashrc: MUC ;)
[12:21] <bashrc> mano a mano
[12:25] <bashrc> if you're using something other than Debian 7 on the server then you may just be able to apt-get install hybserv
[12:29] <jussi> !info hybserv
[12:32] <bashrc> I saw a chart somewhere in which it appeared that hybserv was the only channel manager supporting SSL
[12:35] <MooDoo> jussi: just trying for 4 cylinder engine, takes ages to get to 110k
[12:36] <jussi> MooDoo: yeah, Ive got it already, and the crafting is expensive also
[12:36] <diplo> How many workers have you got MooDoo / jussi ?
[12:36] <jussi> 6
[12:36] <MooDoo> diplo: 6
[12:36] <MooDoo> 26km
[12:36] <diplo> 27k and 7
[12:37] <jussi> 28k here
[12:37] <diplo> Goes up a lot quicker with more people, but they get darn expensive.. 500k next
[12:37] <jussi> about to buy the ext one
[12:37] <jussi> next'
[12:38] <jussi> someone take my link... I want money! :P
[12:39] <diplo> you get money for reffering ?
[12:39] <jussi> yeah. click the old fart on the roof
[12:39] <aquarius> popey, ping
[12:40] <jussi> diplo: and for reaching 20k, 40k etc
[12:40] <aquarius> popey, is the comment from you on http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/bq-aquaris-ubuntu-phone-specs#comment-1261219388 really from you? It has a few too many exclamation marks to sound like you.
[12:40] <aquarius> popey, also, the bq aquaris 5 is actually slightly *larger* than the Nexus 4 :(
[12:40] <MartijnVdS> bq aquarius
[12:41] <jussi> found a diamond!
[12:41] <aquarius> I was pretty careful to spell it the way they do :)
[12:41] <shauno> tip: there's lava under it
[12:42] <jussi> diplo: MooDoo popey shauno - come join me in ##mrmine
[12:45] <popey> aquarius: meow
[12:47] <popey> aquarius: right, but it's not a gigantic phone
[13:13] <jussi> hrm, I love it when something works, that isnt traditional...
[13:13] <jussi> I just made lamb wok...
[13:13] <jussi> wok/stirfry
[13:40] <aquarius> popey, I wasn't having a pop. It genuinely didn't sound like you; I was wondering whether the omg comments bug had credited your comment to someone else
[13:40] <popey> heh
[13:50] <shauno> the lesser-spotted omgpopey does seem to wield a lot more punctuation than we're accustomed to
[13:52] <popey> I was excited
[15:12] <Laney> radmac is amusing today
[15:12] <MartijnVdS> radmac?
[15:12] <Laney> 6 music
[15:13] <Laney> gerrit on
[15:13] <MartijnVdS> Laney: ESPEAKERS
[15:13] <Laney> for shame
[15:14] <MartijnVdS> Laney: I prefer my co-workers in a "not wanting to kill me" state tyvm ;)
[15:25] <foobarry>  where should static routes be added in centos? rc.local/
[15:25] <foobarry> ?
[15:25] <MartijnVdS> ##centos ;)
[15:25] <foobarry>  where should static routes be added in ubuntu? rc.local?
[15:29] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: I'd use an "up" line in /etc/network/interfaces
[15:29] <MartijnVdS> also, use "ip route add", not "route add"
[15:29] <MartijnVdS> also, static routes, in this day & age?!
[15:31] <foobarry> a necessary evil
[15:31] <foobarry> on a dual homed box
[15:33] <diplo> foobarry: Centos6 ?
[15:34] <diplo>  It'll be in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-eth0 or 1
[15:41] <foobarry> 5.8 diplo
[15:41] <foobarry> are those files supported on 5 too?
[15:41] <diplo> I know it's differrent on 4
[15:41] <diplo> Give me a sec
[15:41] <foobarry> thx
[15:42] <diplo> Should be the same
[15:42] <foobarry> ta
[15:42] <diplo> So the syntax is network/24 via route dev eth0
[15:52] <foobarry> can i do ip route add 123.456.788.123/32 dev eth1
[15:53] <foobarry> i suppose i better put the next hop
[15:53] <foobarry> normally i do this without thinking
[15:54] <foobarry> but i gotta write a change request
[16:01] <bubu> hey guys. I'm holding some packages back using apt-mark hold pkgname
[16:01] <bubu> I assume this gets written to a file somewhere so I can check if it is already held?
[16:10] <mapps> yo
[16:12] <mapps> well thats good..americans back today
[16:16] <davmor2> bubu: it tends to be because a dependency can't be updated for some reason so it holds back the app that can't be installed because of it
[16:16] <bubu> davmor2: it's ok, dpkg --get-selections | grep pkg_name | grep hold
[16:17] <bubu> will check if that package is held or not
[17:14] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lo1eggikd6ah30a/IMG_20140226_154114.jpg
[17:14] <daftykins> move over ceiling cat
[17:15] <mapps> you see that cat in the paper? had its legs cut off by a garden cutting thing
[17:15] <mapps> ;/
[17:15] <mapps> cats are cute
[17:15] <daftykins> D: nah i don't read any papers
[18:57] <daftykins> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/b4f29be1fa739ac22496c36c846024e4.html
[18:57] <daftykins> this is very handy, gonna use it to keep track of my strange packet loss
[21:10] <bigcalm> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Coiajj5ScBA
[21:11] <bigcalm> audio is NSWF
[21:12] <shauno> what the
[21:21] <bigcalm> :)
[21:21] <shauno> the innuendos are strong with this one
[21:21] <bigcalm> NSFW even
[21:22] <shauno> actually looks like a lot of fun
[22:14] <diddledan> 6% of mtgox bitcoins have apparently been stolen?
[22:14] <diddledan> http://collaboristablog.com/2014/02/bitcoin-bedlam-mt-gox-shuts-doors-apparent-data-leak/
[22:20] <shauno> only 6%?
[22:21] <ali1234> no, that report is claiming 6% of *all* bitcoins
[22:21] <ali1234> but it's rubbish
[22:21] <shauno> I actually find the whole thing terribly exciting.  finally seems like a good time to buy
[22:23] <ali1234> gox wouldn't be closed if it only lost 6% of coins
[22:23] <ali1234> otoh it's pretty much impossible for them to have lost more than about 30%
[22:23] <ali1234> after that they wouldn't ever be able to make valid transactions
[22:23] <diddledan> shauno, INORITE
[22:24] <diddledan> a currency crash is the best time to invest
[22:24] <shauno> unfortunately bitstamp want me to scan various documents, and I a) don't use paper, and b) don't own a scanner
[22:24] <diddledan> provided you can be sure the currency isn't going to disappear
[22:25] <diddledan> hmm, I should reboot to patch os x's ssl bug
[22:25] <diddledan> gotofail
[22:26] <daftykins> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p5feX5IDyRrfy-3IYqV8lWe_S3sSDf4Q2-VAdXlaTz0=w797-h598-no
[22:26] <daftykins> mate of a mate, about to get 330/30 Mb tubes over FTTP for £50/mo
[22:27] <daftykins> =/
[22:27] <diddledan> daftykins, that's so unfair
[22:27] <daftykins> ikr
[22:35] <shauno> that's evil.  I only have half of that living in a third-world country
[22:44] <dogmatic69> upgrading to 13.10
[22:44] <dogmatic69> my internet connection <3 http://i.imgur.com/f4lKBzU.png
[22:52] <diddledan> daftykins, which company did he go with?
[22:52] <diddledan> apparently I can get fttp here. whoknew?!
[22:53] <daftykins> diddledan: not sure sir, he went to bed so i cannot ask
[22:53] <daftykins> wow, what's the damage?
[22:54] <diddledan> a&a are suggesting 10GB(daytime) and 500GB(evening/weekend) (14 of their "units" in total) at £76.80/mo with 125 install
[22:54] <diddledan> sorry, 100 install
[22:55] <daftykins> as in you have to sign up 99 neighbours?
[22:55] <diddledan> http://aa.net.uk/broadband-FP.html
[22:55] <diddledan> no, 100£
[22:55] <daftykins> that's ace
[22:55] <ali1234> wat
[22:56] <shauno> wot
[22:56] <daftykins> wit
[22:56] <ali1234> that's not per day you know
[22:56] <ali1234> that's 10GB per month in the day time
[22:56] <ali1234> for £76/month
[22:56] <diddledan> ali1234, yes
[22:57] <shauno> that's like .. my phone
[22:57] <ali1234> it's like my phone except it costs 10x as much
[22:57] <diddledan> I'm trying to find another provider that isn't bt
[22:57] <shauno> my monthly usage is way over their 'weekend/evening'
[22:58] <shauno> my daytime .. well I don't tend to wake up if I'm not working.  10GB/mo might be workable if I pay attention to background scheduling
[23:21] <diddledan> hmm, maybe I can't - it's listed as fttp on demand which afaik costs over 1k to get installed
[23:21] <daftykins> D:
[23:22] <diddledan> I can't get the bt website to work so I can't find out anything from the horses mouth
[23:22] <daftykins> so get 9 neighbours signed up, rock-on \o/


[00:23] <Unit193> bluesabre: I accidentally hit esc at the unlock screen, it went away and never came back. :3
[00:23] <bluesabre> Unit193: that's unpleasant
[00:23] <Unit193> TTY and killall, yeeah..
[00:23] <bluesabre> :(
[00:27] <Unit193> Are you docs lead now too?
[00:34] <bluesabre> Not sure anymore, but I am currently doing docs-things
[00:40] <Unit193> Talking to someone else about docs things: "RST worked great. pandoc converted from docbook (and rst2html and friends from there)."
[03:03] <Unit193> bluesabre: http://paste.debian.net/1095209/
[09:44] <bluesabre> Unit193: Guessing RST is easier to maintain, or? I'm not up to speed on differences between doc formats
[10:05] <Unit193> bluesabre: Debian 802363, 802368, 802370.  Docbook hasn't been having releases or been developed for a while.


[05:10] <mborzecki> morning
[06:14] <mborzecki> hmm arch's kernel package changed their LOCALVERSIONing scheme and our checks are failing
[06:33] <CyberManifest> are there any plans to port snapd (snap support) to macOS ?
[06:38] <mborzecki> CyberManifest: snapd is closely tied with linux atm as such i'm not aware of any plans to support other platforms, feel free to experiment though and ping us if you'd like to know more about the internals
[06:38] <mborzecki> CyberManifest: however we have plans to port the utilities for building snaps to windows and macos and this work should commence sooonish, next month most probably
[06:38] <mborzecki> mvo: hi, i've opened #5581 to fix the current problems on arch
[06:39] <CyberManifest> mborzecki: couldn't https://mesonbuild.com be used to contain the linux portions i.e. sandbox the environment?
[06:39] <CyberManifest> mborzecki: building doesn't help me run snap apps on macOS
[06:43] <mborzecki> CyberManifest: meson is a build system, so it could replace the autotools magic we currently use to build one of the elements, the rest of the code is in Go but makes use of systemd, udev, makes certain assumptions about system components and paths and so on
[06:44] <CyberManifest> so snap can't run on non systemd systems that use sysV init?
[06:44] <mborzecki> CyberManifest: we make use of some kernel interfaces like mount namespace, seccomp, i'm not familiar with macos and don't know if there are similar intefaces on macos, though it'd be exciting if anyone wanted to explore this
[06:45] <CyberManifest> mborzecki: and could homebrew not be used to port it?
[06:46] <mborzecki> CyberManifest: afaik homeberew i just for building, you'd still need to provide the functional counterparts of the intefaces we use at the system level
[06:47] <mborzecki> CyberManifest: but as i said, i'm not a mac user and have limited experience with osx
[06:48] <CyberManifest> mborzecki: it's for distribution as well; it's mostly described as a package manager
[06:53] <mvo> mborzecki: good morning! master is failing right now on arch with an "running unexpected kernel version 4.17.11-arch1 error. is that a known issue?
[06:53] <mborzecki> mvo: yes, #5581 addresses that
[06:53] <mvo> mborzecki: cool
[06:54] <mborzecki> i should porbably label it as simple ;)
[06:54] <mborzecki> mvo: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5581
[06:54] <mvo> mborzecki: curious, why do we check the kernel version on arch?
[06:55] <mborzecki> mvo: because there's just one kernel version installed at a time, we do an upgrade before the tests, reboot, and just to be extra sure verify that we're running the right kernel (iirc there were some issues at the early beginnign of arch integration with that too)
[06:56] <mvo> mborzecki: aha, ok. makes sense, thank you
[07:07] <mborzecki> mvo: apt-hooks tests is still a bit flaky
[07:07] <mvo> mborzecki: yeah, I noticed yesterday I'm a bit puzzled about the why, the debug output shows the commands.db is populated :/
[07:08] <mborzecki> mvo: yup, but iirc you've added a wait loop in the test right?
[07:08] <mvo> mborzecki: yes
[07:08] <mborzecki> ah right, but the file is there
[07:08] <mborzecki> hm
[07:09] <mborzecki> mvo: maybe we could dump the db in the test debug section?
[07:09] <mborzecki> or it's stale from one of the previous tests
[07:09] <mvo> mborzecki: dump|grep is a good idea
[07:15] <mborzecki> mvo: snap debug commands would be useful
[07:16] <mborzecki> mvo: strings /var/cache/snapd/commands.db is a bit hard to read
[07:17] <mvo> mborzecki: yeah, I think we need a debug dump command or similar
[07:26] <mborzecki> mvo: hm i think i can make it work with strings & some sed magic
[07:28] <mborzecki> mvo: super low tech https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/KeXaitkPbRn59wnVakr5ng/raw
[07:28] <CyberManifest> mborzecki: systemd is covered by http://mesonbuild.com/Users.html don't know the rest though.
[07:40] <mvo> mborzecki: heh, nice! I think thats good enough for now
[07:55] <mborzecki> mvo: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5582
[07:58] <mvo> mborzecki: nice! and magic :)
[08:10] <mborzecki> mvo: left a comment in https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5557
[08:11] <mborzecki> mvo: otherwise it's looking good
[08:19] <mborzecki> brb, need to do a quick run by the bike shop to get a new tube
[09:04] <mborzecki> re
[09:04] <Chipaca> mvo: mborzecki's commands.db pr died with an error you might know about or be interested in
[09:05] <Chipaca> - Mount snap "test-snapd-control-consumer" (2) ([start snap-test\x2dsnapd\x2dcontrol\x2dconsumer-2.mount] failed with exit status 1: Job for snap-test\x2dsnapd\x2dcontrol\x2dconsumer-2.mount failed.
[09:05] <Chipaca> in google:ubuntu-core-18-64:tests/main/install-remove-multi
[09:06] <mborzecki> damn
[09:12] <Chipaca> mborzecki: i've got the logs, if you want to just restart your run
[09:22] <mborzecki> btw. i don't recall the mount thing failing on ubuntu
[09:22] <mborzecki> it was always fedora & arch
[09:23] <mvo> Chipaca: hrm, hrm, the protocol error again?
[09:24] <Chipaca> mvo: http://r.chipaca.com/log.txt
[09:25] <Chipaca> mvo: I don't see protocol error in there, but i don't recall the exact error message it would throw
[09:26] <Chipaca> mvo: changing subjects, 16.04 having 2.34.2 and stable being 2.33 is weird :-)
[09:32] <mvo> Chipaca: no kidding
[09:32] <mvo> Chipaca: but yeah, will be fixed soon :)
[09:32] <mvo> Chipaca: the one and only time that the deb is ahead because we had issues on core devices with the refresh (pi2)
[09:32] <mvo> Chipaca: we will release 2.34.3 on Monday
[09:33] <Chipaca> mvo: I'm mostly surprised the sru got there that fast
[09:35] <mvo> Chipaca: yeah, we did all we could this time to get it ready in time for 18.04.1
[09:35] <mvo> Chipaca: and all is fine on "normal" devices
[09:35] <Chipaca> mvo: to be fair I only noticed because my /usr/bin/snap was broken (because I broke it) so it was suddenly crashing
[09:41] <mvo> Chipaca: Jul 31 08:09:10 jul310756-078436 snapd[6023]: Jul 31 08:09:09 jul310756-078436 systemd[1]: snap-test\x2dsnapd\x2dcontrol\x2dconsumer-2.mount: Failed with result 'protocol'.
[09:41] <Chipaca> mvo: ah
[09:41] <mvo> Chipaca: so yeah, this is the error we are hunting since some time
[09:41] <mvo> Chipaca: maybe a systemd bug but so far elusive
[09:47] <abeato> mvo, hey, tests/main/apt-hooks is failing for https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5572 all the time, is that expected? it does not seem to be related to the PR
[09:47] <Chipaca> abeato: not related
[09:48] <Chipaca> abeato: also, often but not all the time. Sorry... we're looking into it
[09:48] <abeato> nw, good to know
[09:48] <Chipaca> abeato: i'll punch 'retry' for you
[09:48] <abeato> Chipaca, thanks
[09:50] <Chipaca> abeato: actually, if it's happening often for that pr, could you merge master?
[09:50] <Chipaca> abeato: mborzecki added some debug to that test
[09:50] <abeato> Chipaca, I rebased like one hour ago, so mborzecki could take a look at the log
[09:51] <Chipaca> abeato: the debug pr landed seconds ago
[09:51] <abeato> ok
[09:51] <Chipaca> abeato: (i merged it between punching restart, and asking you to merge master)
[09:52] <abeato> Chipaca, I've rebased my branc now
[09:52] <Chipaca> k
[09:52] <Chipaca> now of course it'll just work :-p
[09:53] <abeato> I would prefer that :p
 Chipaca: 5583 is a bit of an rfc, let me know about any obvious holes in the approach
 mborzecki: ^- you are welcome as well of course
[10:13] <mvo> got disconnected, not sure I the above made it to the channel
[10:20] <Chipaca> mvo: it hadn't
[10:20] <Chipaca> mvo: thanks
[10:54] <mvo> Chipaca: thanks for the review! at least no obvious holes in the approach that is good. I'm sure this will have some more iterations once gustavo and samuele get a chnace to look at it :)
[10:54] <Chipaca> mvo: a'yup
[10:54]  * mvo hugs Chipaca
[10:58] <mborzecki> anyone feeling like looking at some c code? https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5584
[11:02] <mborzecki> second review for the timers fix? https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5573
[11:04] <mvo> mborzecki: careful, when I review C code I usually get grumpy ;)
[11:04] <mborzecki> mvo: heh, i get so when writing c code
[11:06] <mborzecki> mvo: i'm thinking about that socket activation code, i'm afraid that the idea behind it may be that snapd must not be started at all
[11:07] <mvo> mborzecki: how do you mean? you mean in an ideal world it would not start at all?
[11:07] <mborzecki> mvo: meaning, it probably goes down to the fact that once started there will be pages allocated on the host anyway, even if you stop it later the ripple effect is on
[11:08] <mborzecki> mvo: at least that's the line of thinking i'd have should i be running a dense vm/container environment
[11:08] <mvo> mborzecki: I don't disagree! however this was discussed a good while ago (not starting at all) and there was pushback from Gustavo for various reasons. so for now the consensus was to start and stop if we can
[11:10] <mborzecki> mvo: well, i agree that you have proposed is a saner solution :P i recall the hack we had before 2.3x release and that was ugly
[11:12] <mvo> mborzecki: I had a PR once that tried to do it all with systemd conditionals but I can't find it right now
[11:13] <mvo> anyway, lunch first
[11:13] <mborzecki> mvo: enjoy
[11:14] <mvo> mborzecki: thank you! and thanks for the review(s)
[11:15] <Chipaca> mvo: mborzecki: what we _could_ do is have snapd touch files that we can then use from conditionals
[11:16] <mborzecki> Chipaca: then gate on ConditionPathExists or like?
[11:17] <Chipaca> mborzecki: say we touch /var/lib/snapd/up-to-date once everything is fine
[11:17] <Chipaca> mborzecki: and we remove that file if it's more than N days old
[11:18] <Chipaca> mborzecki: the problem is the catalog will be stale unless we have a way of triggering snapd to run periodically
[11:19] <mborzecki> Chipaca: hm we have timers now :)
[11:19] <Chipaca> mborzecki: in systemd we've had timers for yonks
[11:19] <Chipaca> there even was a snapd.timer
[11:19] <Chipaca> or was it snapd-service.timer
[11:19] <Chipaca> something like that
[11:19] <mborzecki> repair?
[11:20] <Chipaca> mborzecki: repair only runs in core
[11:24] <Chipaca> in any case, we'll see
[11:24] <Chipaca> maybe if the problem is VMs and clouds we add the dumb conditionals just to there
[11:28] <mborzecki> meanwhile, i've added a temporary label for parallel installs PRs
[12:38] <jdstrand> mvo: would you mind taking a look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5579
[12:40] <jdstrand> mvo: hi btw :)
[12:41] <mvo> jdstrand: in a meeting right now, will do so soon
[12:41] <mvo> jdstrand: and *thnk you*
[12:57] <Chipaca> mborzecki: https://api.travis-ci.org/v3/job/410245666/log.txt
[12:57] <mborzecki> jdstrand: hi, i've requested your review on some of my prs, they should appear in your dashboard
[13:15] <mborzecki> shellchecks part 5 https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5585 - 'the song of quoting and escaping'
[13:35] <jdstrand> mborzecki: ack
[13:44] <mvo> jdstrand: now I'm back, looking at your PR now
[13:52] <mvo> jdstrand: thanks for the PR - I look forward killing ptrace trace :)
[13:53] <jdstrand> mvo: yes, me too :)
[13:54] <mvo> mborzecki: I cherry picked the arch fix for 2.34 - thanks for this one
[13:54] <mborzecki> mvo: thanks for picking it up for 2.34!
[13:55] <thresh> I wonder why I no longer have a _NET_WM_ICON xprop on a snapped firefox
[13:57] <thresh> =/ snap refresh to a previous revision and back to stable fixed it
[14:23]  * Chipaca takes a break
[14:52] <mvo> mborzecki: I added some comments to your C code PR - just like I said, I got a bit grumpy, sorry for this. hope its still useful.
[14:53] <mborzecki> mvo: sure, thanks for the review and the diff
[14:54] <mvo> mborzecki: I should add, your stuff is fine (the indent is a bit off though) and I think the extra tests would be nice. but the other bits are fine
[14:54] <mvo> mborzecki: this was just my take on this
[14:54] <kyrofa> cachio, picking up where we left off yesterday (autopkgtests), I know I need to generate the system locally, but not when actually running in autopkgtests, right?
[14:54] <mborzecki> mvo: yeah, the indent thing i did not notice even, showed fine in git diff & emacs
[14:55] <cachio> kyrofa, right
[14:55] <kyrofa> That was phrased badly. I mean when running the real deal, the system is generated for us, right?
[14:55] <mvo> mborzecki: iirc we use indent (or was it clang-format?) on the code
[14:55] <cachio> kyrofa, yes
[14:55] <cachio> kyrofa, you generate it when you run it locally
[14:55] <mborzecki> mvo: right, afaik it didn't cover snap-update-ns, probably need to run it manually
[14:56] <mvo> mborzecki: aha, I think you are right. slightly sad
[14:56] <kyrofa> cachio, can you explain why, since all the systems do the same thing, we have so many of them? Why not just call it "my-autopkgtest-system" and use it for everything? I feel like there's something I'm missing
[14:56] <mvo> mborzecki: I just ran indent and the diff was huge so probably best to fix maually and call it a day ;)
[14:57] <mborzecki> mvo: heh, run it now and it basically redid the whole file :(
[14:57] <mvo> mborzecki: yep
[14:57] <cachio> kyrofa, because then we use the system in the tests
[14:57] <kyrofa> Ah, the SPREAD_SYSTEM var or whatever?
[14:57] <cachio> if the system name is ubuntu-14 we do something
[14:57] <cachio> if the system is arch-linux we do something different
[14:58] <cachio> if it is ubuntu-18 the same
[14:58] <kyrofa> That was the only situation I could think of, sounds like we're on the same page. Perfect, thanks cachio, I'm going to proceed to, uh, borrow, all of this
[14:58] <cachio> kyrofa, also we filter tests by systems
[14:59] <cachio> in a task you can define which system you want to run and which to skip
[15:00] <cachio> kyrofa, something like https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/blob/master/tests/main/ubuntu-core-create-user/task.yaml#L2
[15:01] <cachio> this test will be just executed on ubuntu-core-16
[15:01] <mborzecki> mvo: looks like the whole bootstrap.c is using space indentation
[15:02] <kyrofa> cachio, ah, right, I do that too in retrospect
[15:08] <Chipaca> mvo: mborzecki: I _think_ https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5586 should fix the apt-hooks test breakage
[15:15] <mborzecki> mvo: my guess about not using islower() and friends is that s-c code is almost the same, same function names, code copied and so on
[15:15] <mborzecki> mvo: probably makes it easier to keep the code in sync
[15:30] <mvo> mborzecki: *shrug* no strong opinion but generally I'm not a fan of cargo culting. but then I usually avoid the C review to avoid getting grumpy :)
[15:31] <mvo> Chipaca: oh, nice. looking at your fix
[15:35] <mvo> mborzecki: 5586 is probably an easy win, if you have a moment for this one
[15:43] <cachio> mborzecki, I already pushed the PR to setup the storage at system level
[15:44] <cachio> we will need to wait few weeks for it
[15:53] <mvo> jdstrand: do you think you could review 5340 ? it got a +1 from zyga already but not from you yet
[15:53] <mborzecki> cachio: thank you
[15:54] <jdstrand> mvo: it is on my list, yes
[15:55] <mvo> jdstrand: thank you, I was asked about the status I will relay that then
[15:59] <mborzecki> Chipaca: left some comments in 5586, count that as +1 if i'm pushing too much :)
[16:01] <Chipaca> mborzecki: as i answered there: i can't create a boltdb from a file
[16:01] <Chipaca> so, no
[16:01] <Chipaca> unless we want to actualy fork it
[16:01] <Chipaca> (which AIUI we don't)
[16:02] <mborzecki> Chipaca: very well then
[16:03] <Chipaca> mborzecki: i looked into passing in a file (or a writecloser, or even just a writer), but the only thing that i could do is create the db and then use tx.WriteTo
[16:03] <Chipaca> which seems like a lot of copying around
[16:03] <mborzecki> meh
[16:03] <Chipaca> soz
[16:59] <Chipaca> brb, compiz hates me
[17:21] <om26er> (sorry if this is coming as a repeat message, freenode had an issue and I believe my message were no going through)
[17:21] <om26er> How can we create an Ubuntu Core image for the RPi with one additional snap installed.
[17:21] <om26er> ogra: ^
[17:22] <om26er> in this case, we are using RPi3 and want our privately built snap preinstalled on it.
[17:22] <ogra> by creating a model assertion that has "required-snaps:" populated
[17:22] <ogra> ah, if you dont want to cycle it through the store (or cant) use the --extra-snaps option to ubuntu-image
[17:23] <om26er> we'll probably publish the snap to the store as well, so need to play with mode assertion probably.
[20:03] <Chipaca> abeato: I merged master, with fixes for apt-hooks concurrency from #5586, into #5572 and it's now green. Any reason not to merge it?
[20:05] <Chipaca> abeato: if there is, comment in the PR (you can use the 'blocked' label also)
[20:05] <Chipaca> abeato: otherwise i'll merge it in the mron
[20:05] <Chipaca> morn
[20:05] <Chipaca> g'night
[22:36] <FreeBDSM> how to cut some files from a .snap?
[22:44] <FreeBDSM> can a snap be mounted as an rw mount?
[23:12] <mcphail> FreeBDSM: as far as I know, a snap is just a squashfs file.


[21:35] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue760 up for review and final edits:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue760 :D


[03:33] <eggonlea_> ADcomp: you need manually add tslib in HAL fdi because Ubuntu haven't it by default.
[03:33] <eggonlea_> just copy the fdi from Angstrom to Ubuntu, or modify the synaptics fdi to use tslib.
[18:17] <itsonlyme> The HTC Touch Pro 2 has an android port already booting with the haret tool,  is an ubuntu port a possibility?


[17:58] <mhall119> jose: ping
[17:59] <jose> mhall119: pong
[18:26] <belkinsa> Sigh, I think this UOS idea might fail.  Maybe it's really for the developers.


[01:05] <_PehdeN_> Party in #moshpit everyone is op!
[04:53] <Neozonz> hello
[04:53] <Neozonz> I've used ufw allow 10336
[04:53] <Neozonz> but when i do a port scan on my server it doesnt allow it
[08:36] <jamespage> adam_g, https://code.launchpad.net/~james-page/charms/precise/nova-cloud-controller/grizzly-upgrade/+merge/165032
[08:36] <jamespage> glance looks OK
[08:45] <jamespage> adam_g, and https://code.launchpad.net/~james-page/charms/precise/nova-compute/grizzly-upgrade/+merge/165033
[09:18] <Phoenixxl> Do any of you have experience installing MOM ?
[09:18] <Phoenixxl> I have 2 guests that do things that have low cpu requirements , and do fine with 192 mb ram .. but one of them needs to inflate to about 512 for an hour every day .. If there's other options than mom i'm open to suggestions .
[09:19] <Phoenixxl> it's not on a regular basis and it's automated.. so a cron job is not possible
[09:32] <Enich> I am currently using apt-cacher-ng to in a project.  I was wondering if anyone could tell me the pros and cons regarding using bindaddress: <IP_ADDRESS>(listen on all interfaces, as far as i understand) compared to defining the server ip address.    I can imagene that it is best practice to set the specific interface address and not using <IP_ADDRESS>, but i was wondering if someone could give me some hints why :)
[09:37] <Phoenixxl> @enich , mainly security and management reasons.
[09:37] <jamespage> Enich, I'd only set a specific interface if the server has multiple external network interfaces and you want to restrict where it can be accessed from
[09:37] <Phoenixxl> your firewall might give out while you mess with it
[09:38] <Phoenixxl> in that case the port used would be open to the outside world
[09:39] <Phoenixxl> also when setting up rules in your firewall it's easier to have a specific nic the thing is bound on
[09:39] <jamespage> Enich, fyi squid-deb-proxy covered most of apt-cacher-ng plus is has nice features such as supporting proxy peering/chaining
[09:41] <Phoenixxl> I personally have some servers that are running on my lan nic so i can limit traffic , ie transmission .
[09:42] <Enich> jamespage, that is actually a great piece of info, regarding squid-deb-proxy..     where does it fall short ?   (you write it covers most)
[09:42] <jamespage> Enich, I see one awkward features
[09:42] <Enich> jamespage, im not sure what you mean?
[09:42] <jamespage> apt-cacher-ng maps all *.archive.ubuntu.com requests to the same locally cached files
[09:42] <Enich> Phoenixxl, thanks for the info
[09:43] <jamespage> Enich, so you need to ensure that all clients are using exactly the same mirror
[09:43] <jamespage> with squid-deb-proxy
[09:43] <Ng> if everything in the world could stop being named foo-ng, that would be great :D
[09:44] <jamespage> Enich, I'm tempted to trust the scalability of squid more than I am apt-cacher-ng as well :-)
[09:44]  * rbasak has called on project foo-nih, because foo-ng already existed
[09:44] <Ng> rbasak: since -nih doesn't make irssi highlight me, I am ok with that ;)
[09:44] <Enich> i will take a look, though i think apt-cacher-ng is my solution, i am doing a fully automated setup with several servers etc, and i have a part of my script,which checks for the existence of the  apt-cacher.. if people want to reinstall the environemnt.   (im sorry if taht makes not sense.. im a bit off atm)
[09:45] <jamespage> Enich, you can restrict access to squid-deb-proxy using ACL's as well - it defaults to all private network ranges
[09:45] <Enich> jamespage, scalability is not a issue, i am doing a project where bandwidth preservation is highly important, though only about 10 servers are spun up via kickstarter files and so on.
[09:46] <jamespage> Enich, ok - well you know about the alternative if you hit issues with apt-cacher-ng :-)
[09:46] <jamespage> fwiw I used to use apt-cacher-ng but switched to squid-deb-proxy
[09:46] <jamespage> specifically for the peering features
[09:46] <jamespage> and for the avahi enabled client (squid-deb-proxy advertises its services)
[09:47] <Enich> yeah, that is really good to know.  There is currrently only 1 interface in the vm running the apt-cacher and the ip addresses will be the same for each install (its a learning environment that people can run on there own machine)
[09:48] <Enich> by peering features, what do you mean?  having several mirrored squid proxies etc ?
[10:24] <Enich> when i look in the manpages for hostname, it says that SET NAME defines the hostname but it isnt persistant and will revert after a reboot, (edit /etc/hostname for permanent change)    is there a command line to make it pemanent, like hostnamectl set-hostname myhostname   on archlinux
[10:29] <rbasak> Enich: this is an Ubuntu channel. On Ubuntu, you can edit /etc/hostname to make it persistent. But you should check if there's an Arch support channel so that you can ask how to do it on Arch.
[10:30] <jamespage> adam_g, http://pad.ubuntu.com/openstack-series-upgrade-testing
[10:30] <jamespage> roaksoax, ^^
[10:52] <jamespage> roaksoax, promulgated hacluster charm - should appear in the store soon
[11:10] <diegonat> hi guys, Ive got an instance on AWS but although I open the port 53, it is still filtered. Why? Anybody can help me?
[11:11] <mardraum> how did you open it?
[11:13] <diegonat> I went to the consolde
[11:13] <diegonat> and in security group
[11:13] <diegonat> I added port 53 udp
[11:13] <diegonat> source <IP_ADDRESS>/0
[11:14] <diegonat> mardraum is there any other way?
[11:18] <patdk-lap> you did add it to the security group assigned to that instance?
[11:18] <diegonat> yep
[11:26] <mardraum> dns also really needs tco open for large queries and axfr etc
[11:26] <mardraum> tcp*
[11:29] <diegonat> i opened tcp as well
[11:39] <mardraum> are you sure your daemon is actually listening?
[11:45] <diegonat> yes
[11:46] <diegonat> however now ive got a problem that if I leave my ssh session idle for a few minutes, it drops. There is some problem
[11:48] <patdk-lap> isn't that normal?
[11:48] <patdk-lap> generally happens with nat
[11:49] <diegonat> i dont think it is normal
[11:49] <RoyK> diegonat: turn on ssh keepalives
[11:49] <diegonat> never happened before
[11:50] <diegonat> royk demon side ?
[11:50] <RoyK> clientside
[11:50] <RoyK> ServerAliveInterval 5 in $HOME/.ssh/config
[11:50] <RoyK> 5 seconds may be overkill, 60 should do, but then, bandwidth normally isn't an issue
[11:52] <diegonat> however i dont understand why AWS is filtering my port 53
[11:52] <diegonat> despite I think it is wierd
[11:53] <diegonat> ;; global options: +cmd
[11:53] <diegonat> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
[11:54] <RoyK> some (like what we do here) don't allow access to external DNS server in case they are hijacked or otherwise if the client is compromised and dns is changed by whoever or whatever compromised it
[11:55] <RoyK> so use amazon's dns servers
[11:57] <diegonat> is it free?
[12:05] <diegonat> bisogna pagare
[12:06] <diegonat> I should pay, i dont like paying =D
[12:14] <lotia> Hi All, If I want to run a script at boot on a 10.04 and 12.04 machine, is the best place to do so via an upstart job?
[12:14] <lotia> Ths script will be a python script.
[12:14] <lotia> And need only run once.
[12:17] <mollerup_> lotia, depends if it depends on specific services an init-script should do. else you could make a crontab entry starting with @reboot, see man 5 crontab
[12:20] <Daviey> rbasak: great to see your application in
[12:20] <Daviey> .
[12:21] <rbasak> Thanks
[12:22] <rbasak> I was hoping for 3 June. I didn't consider that it would be full so soon.
[12:22] <soren> Which application? Core dev?
[12:23] <rbasak> soren: well I don't know. Just the server set at the moment: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2013-May/000487.html
[12:24] <lotia> mollerup: I was under the impression that @reboot wouldn't run from cold boot
[12:25] <Daviey> lotia: need only run once?  per boot, or forever?
[12:25] <lotia> assuming I run it from upstart, non daemon jobs are well supported?
[12:26] <rbasak> It's actually really easy to write an upstart job that isn't a daemon
[12:26] <lotia> thanks all
[12:27] <rbasak> You just need a "start on" line, "task" and a "script" stanza
[12:27] <rbasak> "start on runlevel [2345]" to do it on boot
[12:27] <lotia> rbasak: that wouldbe a 'task' in upstart parlance?
[12:27] <rbasak> Right
[12:28] <mollerup> lotia: @reboot is once at every start, be beware that it starts as soon as cron starts, which can be an issue if you depend on other services
[12:29] <Daviey> start on startup, is more readable IMO
[12:31] <rbasak> That might happen before filesystems are mounted though - potentially too early
[12:31] <mollerup> Daviey: yeah, I only use it for starting up "services" on my own user, such as irssi in a screen and so forth
[12:34] <lotia> I like the upstart route.
[12:37] <Daviey> mollerup: upstart does have per-user stuff now.
[12:37] <Daviey> mollerup: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#session-job
[12:44] <Daviey> zul: do we want WI's with a leading *?
[12:44] <zul> i think so
[12:44] <mollerup> Daviey: thanks for the info, but my personal servers run FreeBSD :)
[12:46] <Daviey> mollerup: Ah, there is a discussion about upstart support for GNU/kFreeBSD Debian right now :)
[12:46] <soren> rbasak: I see. Well, good luck.
[12:46] <rbasak> Thanks!
[12:49] <lotia> Daviey: need to do stuff as superuser. So would stick it in /etc/init
[12:50] <zul> jamespage:  hey can you look at my horizon branch again?
[12:54] <lotia> So what would be my stopon value for an upstart job that calls a script. That called script will just exit when done.
[12:54] <rbasak> lotia: if you're using "task", AIUI you don't need any stop conditions defined at all.
[12:54] <jamespage> zul, url?
[12:54] <zul> jamespage:  hold on
[12:55] <zul> https://code.launchpad.net/~zulcss/horizon/horizon-pbr/+merge/164914
[12:55] <lotia> are tasks available in the upstart version in 10.04?
[12:58] <lotia> Do software raid devices get started by upstart, or is that done once the box is considered "started"
[13:08] <jamespage> zul:acked
[13:09] <zul> jamespage:  thanks
[13:26] <zul> jamespage/yolanda: https://code.launchpad.net/~zulcss/python-novaclient/pbr-ftbfs/+merge/165123
[13:29] <jcastro> rbasak: have you replied to the auth thread yet? I'm thinking it should be on -server instead of -devel-discuss
[13:30] <jcastro> rbasak: or do you think it touches enough packages to be a distro-wide thing?
[13:31] <jcastro> man, Timo really is all over it though, heh
[13:31] <MonkeyDust> i'm looking for graphical ISA-like serversoftware for linux - I found smoothwall - any other suggestion?
[13:31] <tjaalton> :)
[13:31] <tjaalton> it's a client thing mostly
[13:31] <tjaalton> whatever the client is
[13:32] <MonkeyDust> it's not for me, the person in question is a windows administrator in a local school
[13:33] <yolanda> zul, looks good to me, the only question is why there are 2 different entries in changelog for debian/control
[13:34] <zul> yolanda: ok ill clean that  up
[13:34] <yolanda> and python-testtools is duplicated in debian/control?
[13:34] <tjaalton> MonkeyDust: sorry, it was for jcastro
[13:37] <jamespage> zul, comments in MP
[13:37] <zul> ack
[13:45] <xnox> lotia: depends. those that are needed to mount the root file system are started in the initramfs. generally all of them are started by udev rules.
[13:47] <zul> jamespage:  fixed
[13:49] <jacobw> What's the fastest way to Openstack from Ubuntu Server?
[13:55] <MonkeyDust> is Firestarter still being maintained?
[13:55] <Pici> I was under the impression that it was not.
[14:05] <jcastro> jacobw: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuCloudInfrastructure
[14:47] <zul> yolanda:  ping https://code.launchpad.net/~zulcss/python-novaclient/pbr-ftbfs/+merge/165123
[14:49] <yolanda> zul, the only thing i see is the 2 lines in debian/control
[14:49] <zul> yolanda:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~zulcss/python-novaclient/pbr-ftbfs/revision/70
[14:50] <sk1pper> hi all, how can I check if there is an active reversed ssh tunnel on my box?
[14:50] <yolanda> in debian/changelog i mean
[14:55] <lunaphyte_> sk1pper: something like ps or lsof could be used for that
[14:57] <zul> yolanda:  huh?
[14:58] <yolanda> +  * debian/control: Add python-pbr and python-d2to1 as build depends.
[14:58] <yolanda> 9	+  * debian/control: Add python-testtools and testrepository as build depends.
[14:59] <sk1pper> lunaphyte_:i used netstat -tan | grep 22 but i don't know if that is enough
[14:59] <lunaphyte_> sk1pper: to start with, the method you'd use depends on which computer you're checking on
[15:00] <lunaphyte_> the computer you're sshing from, or the computer you're sshing to?
[15:01] <sk1pper> lunaphyte_: on the computer behind the FW, meaning on the computer which is NATed
[15:01] <lunaphyte_> the computer you're sshing from, or the computer you're sshing to?
[15:01] <sk1pper> the computer i am sshing to
[15:03] <sk1pper> lunaphyte_: does it make a difference actually? with netstat -tan | grep 22 i can see the established connection, does it make a difference to which computer i am checking?
[15:03] <lunaphyte_> that tells you nothing about a tunnel.
[15:03] <lunaphyte_> ssh connection != ssh tunnel
[15:05] <sk1pper> lunaphyte_: how can I check then?
[15:08] <lunaphyte_> what is the ssh command you're using?
[15:10] <sk1pper> lunaphyte_: i am not trying to create one, I want to check if already exists, meaning if someone got access on my box and created an reversed ssh tunnel, how can I check if it's still active?
[15:10] <lunaphyte_> oh, i see.
[15:12] <sk1pper> that's why I thought that netstat -tan | grep 22 should show me if there is an active ssh tunnel
[15:12] <hXm> everytime i use apt-get upgrade it says i should restart, but i wont stop the server
[15:12] <hXm> can i remove that warning? makes me stress
[15:12] <lunaphyte_> sk1pper: why would someone create a reverse ssh tunnel on your computer?
[15:13] <lunaphyte_> meaning that they connected to your computer and then used ssh to create a reverse tunnel to somewhere else?
[15:14] <sk1pper> lunaphyte_: yes
[15:14] <lunaphyte_> oh, then just do ps -aefwww | grep -iF ssh
[15:14] <lunaphyte_> and look to see if any ssh processes exist that don't belong
[15:15] <lunaphyte_> you'll see -R for any reverse tunnels which have originated from your computer
[15:26] <sk1pper> lunaphyte_: i cannot see any -R in the output that i get from ps -aefwww | grep -iF ssh
[15:26] <sk1pper> this mean that there is no reversed ssh tunnel?
[15:33] <skrite> hey all, i am running software that sends text messages to agriculture customers that update them on their field conditions, but my email server (postfix) only accepts about 1 mail / second. How can i speed that up?
[15:35] <qhartman> skrite, have you looked at this? http://www.postfix.org/TUNING_README.html
[15:36] <skrite> qhartman: thanks
[15:36] <qhartman> sure
[15:51] <skrite> qhartman: still having trouble with it, adjusted the parameter that was supposed to slow things down, and not really any chnage.
[15:55] <`brendan> anyone running an hp blade 420c gen8 with ubuntu 12.04 w/ emulex OneConnect 10gb NICs?
[15:56] <`brendan> having issues getting online with the be2net
[15:57] <`brendan> just installed 12.04.2
[16:00] <qhartman> skrite, how do you know that the mail server is only accepting about 1 mail per second? Also, what is the load on the server like? Is it a "real" server, or a low resource embedded system?
[16:02] <skrite> qhartman: it is a vm, and, according to top and htop, it isn't working all that hard. it seems that the delays get longer if sending to the same destination.
[16:03] <skrite> writing another test script to be sure
[16:04] <qhartman> skrite, how is the postfix server configured? Does it pass the messages to a smart host or relay  upstream, or is it delivering the mail directly ? If it's passing it on to another interim mail server, it's entirely possible you're being throttled there, and no config changes in the world will fix it
[16:06] <skrite> no, i am delivering directly
[16:06] <skrite> and script shows same delay, actually about 3 seconds between mails out
[16:07] <skrite> whether to same destination or not (different mail server recipiants)
[16:07] <qhartman> Kind of an aside, but do you have an SPF record pointing at this machine as a valid sender for your domain?
[16:07] <qhartman> What happens if you send mail to a local recipient, like root?
[16:08] <skrite> qhartman: will check
[16:13] <skrite> qhartman: no, do not think i have an SPF record.
[16:14] <qhartman> skrite, that may not be related to this problem, but may cause you issues at some point.
[16:18] <skrite> ok
[16:20] <qhartman> Also, it would be useful if you would paste log output into a pastebin or gist
[16:23] <skrite> qhartman: will do, also delay is still there if sending to another user on the localhost
[16:23] <qhartman> ok, then it's almost certain that you are dealing with a config issue
[16:24] <qhartman> Is DNS on that box working correctly?
[16:24] <qhartman> delays like that can be caused by DNS tomeouts
[16:24] <qhartman> s/tome/time/
[16:27] <skrite> dns seems ok, can ping different domains and first hit is quick. also, the 3.1 delay on sending these messages out seems very specific.
[16:28] <skrite> think you are right. config
[17:16] <adam_g> zul, http://people.canonical.com/~agandelman/ca/grizzly/2013.1.1_rebase/  + http://people.canonical.com/~agandelman/ca/folsom/2012.2.4_rebase/  can you take a look plz?
[17:17] <zul> adam_g: +1
[17:17] <adam_g> thanks
[17:35] <adam_g> zul: ugh https://launchpadlibrarian.net/140473550/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.keystone_2012.2.4-0ubuntu2~cloud0_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[17:36] <zul> adam_g:  interesting! :)
[17:36] <adam_g> notAfter=May 18 19:41:42 2013 GMT
[17:37] <adam_g> we apparently are not supposed to run tests after last saturday :P
[17:39] <Daviey> adam_g: Hmm, i'd like to find the commit where this went in
[17:39] <adam_g> Daviey, i remember certs expiring in a stable branch in the past, but dont remember if it was keystone
[17:39] <adam_g> checking now
[17:40] <Daviey> Ah no.. I vaguely remember commenting on an expiring time.. but it wasn't keystone
[17:41] <Daviey> adam_g: Fancy landing the fix upstream first, then cutting a fresh snapshot? :)
[17:42] <adam_g> Daviey, ya. ill make sure the new expiry is +1 hour after our PPA build
[17:42] <Daviey> adam_g: lol.. clearly the proper fix for this is to change the buildd time in packaging.
[17:43] <Daviey> for giggles, do it in postinst aswell.
[17:43] <adam_g> :)
[18:07] <resno> i dont have the root password for a server, how can i change it? i tried going into single mode, but it required knowing the password
[18:07] <sarnold> resno: quite often root doesn't even have a password configured
[18:07] <resno> oh! thats right
[18:08] <resno> so im sunk to find the username and then reset password aye?
[18:08] <sarnold> resno: if you boot init=/bin/sh, you'll be presented with a root shell, no password, and no standard services running. _you_ are init. you can fix problems like unknown root passwords :)
[19:51] <ScottK> resno: You have to upgrade through 10.04 though, you can't go straight to 12.04.
[19:56] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5691513/
[19:56] <resno> ScottK: but it "should" work?
[19:56] <ScottK> As long as you go via 10.04, yes.
[19:56] <smoser> "welcome to Ubuntu 13.04.  You can upgrade to Ubuntu 13.04"
[19:57] <ScottK> smoser: IIRC there's an outstanding bug/SRU for that.
[20:00] <kirkland> smoser: I fixed that in saucy, bdmurray was working on the SRU
[20:01] <smoser> good.
[20:53] <Jeeves> why does my AD logins on my CLI only servers take so long to auth?
[20:53] <sarnold> Jeeves: often long delays can be traced to failing / timeout DNS resolving or reverse resolving.
[20:53] <Jeeves> sarnold, how would one go about tracing that?
[20:54] <Jeeves> sarnold, I'm sure that ONLY the AD servers are listed in the resolv.conf file
[20:54] <sarnold> Jeeves: you could throw tcpdump or wireshark on one of the clients, login, and see if DNS entries don't get answered quickly or correctly..
[20:54] <sarnold> Jeeves: .. and repeat on or near the AD server, to see if the slowdown is on the server trying to resolve the client hostnames
[20:55] <sarnold> there may be log entries about failing resolving somewhere, too; it never hurts to look to see if the software tells you why something is funny :)
[20:55] <Jeeves> sarnold, ok, thanks.  I'm going to update the box, hit the gym, then have a look when I get home.  The VPN client from here is too slow to see what's going on.
[20:55] <sarnold> Jeeves: yikes
[20:55] <sarnold> Jeeves: good luck :)
[20:55] <Jeeves> sarnold, thanks.
[20:56] <Jeeves> sarnold, I'm using likewise-open.
[20:59] <sarnold> Jeeves: more directly, you could use host or dig or nslookup or ping to try resolving and reverse-resolving the server addresses on the client, and the client addresses on the server. ifthose all go quickly enough, you may need to look elsewhere anyhow..
[21:02] <Jeeves> lol, holly crap batman, that's FAST!
[21:08] <Jeeves> good bye all. I'm going the gym to remind me how out of shape I am!
[21:42] <lunaphyte_> i'm doing a new install of 13.04, and having trouble installing grub.
[21:43] <lunaphyte_> the installer says "unable to install grub in /dev/sda.  executing grub-install /dev/sda failed."
[21:44] <lunaphyte_> the loggin console says "usr/sbin/grub-bios-setup: error: embedding is not possible, but this required for raid and lvm install"
[21:44] <lunaphyte_> i'm using the 13.04 mini iso [64 bit].
[21:46] <lunaphyte_> i have a gpt partition table, with a 25mb bios_grub partition, and the remainder an lvm partition.  this configuration works with 12.10 [and priot]
[21:50] <lunaphyte_> oh, hmm.  it seems to be trying to install grub to the usb disk i'm booting/installing from.  hmm.
[21:52] <lunaphyte_> aha, yes, that was it.
[21:52] <lunaphyte_> saying no to it's "default" attempt and then explicitely specifiying /dev/sdb seems to have worked.
[23:20] <adam_g> jamespage, merged a buncha your pending stuff, filed some new ones and added some notes to http://pad.ubuntu.com/openstack-series-upgrade-testing


[01:19] <dr4c4n> anyone else running ubuntu gnome zesty having trouble with taking screenshots? My colors are entirely inverted in the screenshot.
[01:54] <dr4c4n> hi everyone, sorry I lost connection, gnome-screenshot was working perfectly for me as of a week ago, now it is really slow, and inverts all of the colors, I might do a fresh nightly install of zesty, but I was wondering if anyone else had the same issues?
[02:16] <tsimonq2> dr4c4n: Hi, what version of gnome-screenshot are you running?
[02:17] <dr4c4n> tsimonq2: I will check .. ty for helping out
[02:18] <dr4c4n> gnome-screenshot 3.22.0
[02:19] <dr4c4n> I have a screenshot from march 2, 2017 that is perfect, even with me selecting the dark theme for gnome, so I know it's not from my futzing, it might be from a recent update I did
[02:20] <dr4c4n> (i'm marking students right now, and that's when I decided to take a screenshot and found the colors inverted.. so I can't use them)
[02:36] <tsimonq2> dr4c4n: Hmm, stick around and someone might be able to help, that's weird.
[02:46] <dr4c4n> tsimonq2: thanks
[02:48] <dr4c4n> I also tried rebooting, same issue, really slow to take the screenshot and when i do the colors are reversed.
[02:58] <dr4c4n> see what I mean here: https://imagebin.ca/v/3F2FSOJaQG3d
[06:17] <lotuspsychje> dax: wanna join discuss again, handy if we need you mate :p
[18:52] <lotus> hi there, just installed ubuntu gnome 17.04 and notice that Grub doesn't show my SuSE OS -- please advise?


[00:01] <bryceh> [ubuntu/natty] xserver-xorg-input-evdev 1:2.6.0-1ubuntu4 (Accepted)
[00:04] <RAOF> LLStarks: I guess we'll be discussing it (again) at UDS
[00:05] <LLStarks> uds-o?
[00:06] <LLStarks> regardless of what happens with nouveau 3d, 2011 needs to be the year of flawless switchable graphics on linux.
[00:07] <tjaalton> what happened to the year of linux on the desktop?-)
[00:07] <LLStarks> i couldn't give two ****s about optimus, but i want to be able to use a 540m if i buy a laptop with one
[00:07] <LLStarks> tj, we can put that on hold for another 2 or 3 years like always
[00:07] <RAOF> Flawless switchable graphics?  I wouldn't hold my breath.
[00:09] <LLStarks> will linux-hybrid-graphics ever materilize into something usable, or do we have to wait for nvidia?
[00:11] <LLStarks> wth jeopardy... you have a category called "good gnus" and not even a single gnu/linux question?
[00:14] <bryceh> LLStarks, fairly certain they're waiting on patches from you
[00:15] <LLStarks> lolno.
[00:16] <RAOF> It's an interesting problem, patches could be fun.
[01:03] <bryce_> X.Org X Server <IP_ADDRESS>1 (1.10.0 RC 1)
[01:03] <bryce_> yay
[01:04] <bryce_> synaptics acceleration is pretty crazy here though
[01:04] <RAOF> Of *course* my hardware is magical.
[01:04] <bryce_> yep and got the xchat corruption
[01:08] <bryceh> alright, xorg-server and xorg packages have been uploaded
[01:09] <RAOF> And they're built we'll need to rebuild the world.
[01:10] <RAOF> s/And /And once/
[01:10] <bryceh> yep
[01:16] <bryceh>  RAOF, that script rocks
[01:17] <bryceh> ok, messful of .changes ready to go
[01:17] <RAOF> Which one?  The little bit of shell to grab the world?
[01:17] <bryceh> yep
[01:17] <RAOF> A little bit of judicious seddery can be a wonderful thing :)
[01:17] <bryceh> had a minor bug (had to use '--rebuild' instead of '--build')
[01:17] <RAOF> Oh, whoops.  EUNTESTED :)
[01:18] <RAOF> We should hold off until xserver is bulit on at least i386, right?  Do the buildds guarantee build ordering?
[01:18] <bryceh> we've needed to wait in the past
[01:19] <bryceh> so, good time for a short break, than back at it
[01:40] <bryceh> [ubuntu/natty] xorg 1:7.6~3ubuntu1 (Accepted)
[01:40] <bryceh> [ubuntu/natty] xorg-server 2:<IP_ADDRESS>1+git20110131.be3be758-0ubuntu1 (Accepted)
[01:44] <bryceh> 3 of 4 builds finished https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/xorg-server/2:<IP_ADDRESS>1+git20110131.be3be758-0ubuntu1
[01:49] <RAOF> Hello, armel. Nice to see you keeping up :)
[01:54] <RAOF> Hm.  And I've now got an sbuild capable of optionally building against the contents of ~/Builds.  Neat!
[02:11] <bryceh> boy they weren't kidding about arm being slow
[02:12] <bryceh> however looks like it published
[02:12] <RAOF> I suspect it would be faster to virtualise on the insanely fast buildds.
[02:13] <bryceh> alright, pulling the trigger on these rebuilds
[02:14] <RAOF> Woot!
[02:24] <bryceh> found another bug in your script ;-)
[02:24] <Amaranth> bryceh: Did you say these uploads fix the xchat-gnome corruption? The screen is too distorted for me to tell for sure :)
[02:25] <bryceh> Amaranth, no it causes the corruption (or at least, I can reproduce it now)
[02:25] <Amaranth> oh, dang
[02:25] <bryceh> yeah
[02:25] <Amaranth> Wait, you couldn't reproduce with just the 2.14 intel driver?
[02:26] <Amaranth> I'm tempted to hack up xchat-gnome to draw solid white before drawing anything else, I'll take the performance hit if it works around the issue
[02:26] <bryceh> I hadn't happened to test it on this particular machine
[02:26] <bryceh> until just today
[02:26] <RAOF> Hm.  I can see that with emacs now.
[02:27] <Amaranth> uh oh
[02:28] <bryceh> alrighty, drivers going in
[02:29] <RAOF> What was the additional bug in my script?
[02:29] <bryceh> I needed to have --distribution specified; it was setting all the .changes to UNRELEASED ;-)
[02:29] <RAOF> Whoops :)
[02:30] <bryceh> also, good to note that the script pulls in xorg as well as drivers, so had to manually slice that out; no need for a rebuild there
[02:30] <RAOF> Oh, dear lord qemu-arm is slow.  It's *almost* finished ./configure ing xserver.
[02:32] <Amaranth> RAOF: Any this is why we use actual devices ;)
[02:32] <Amaranth> The devices are getting faster, qemu not so much
[02:32] <RAOF> Sadly I don't have an A9 device lying around to sbuild on :P
[02:32] <RAOF> Although I guess I could ssh into a porter box…
[02:32] <Amaranth> I have one, not going to try to build anything on it if I can help it
[02:33] <Amaranth> yay cross compilers
[02:33] <RAOF> Ah.  The other option :)
[02:37] <Amaranth> I haven't played with dpkg-cross yet but from what I understand it'll let you build an armel package on x86
[02:37] <Amaranth> But I suppose that's never going to be a good as building natively so I doubt we'll see armel builds happening on the x86 buildds
[02:41] <RAOF> The buildds have insanely more powerful CPUs than an arm chip, though.  Could you get better performance by running qemu-arm on one of the i386 buildds?
[02:41] <Amaranth> RAOF: You just saw how that works
[02:42] <RAOF> Well, the buildds are much faster than my laptop.
[02:42] <RAOF> Also, s/saw/seeing/.
[02:42] <RAOF> :)
[02:42] <Amaranth> RAOF: I dunno, they run the build in a VM
[02:42] <Amaranth> VM on top of VM is usually incredibly slow
[02:43] <RAOF> They could drop the outer VM, though.
[02:49] <bryceh> wow slew of rejects
[02:49] <bryceh> actually, slew of accepts, with a scant few rejects
[02:55] <bryceh> RAOF, -vmmouse and -geode got build failures
[02:55] <RAOF> Hm.  Did my -vmmouse sync request not go through…
[02:57] <RAOF> Ah, no.  bug #709134 will fix vmmouse.
[02:57] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 709134 in xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse (Ubuntu) "Sync xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse 1:<IP_ADDRESS>1-1 (main) from Debian experimental (main) (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709134
[03:05] <bryceh> ok think we're done
[03:06] <bryceh> no other failures except -geode
[03:06] <bryceh> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-geode/2.11.11-1build1/+buildjob/2235710/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.xserver-xorg-video-geode_2.11.11-1build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[03:06] <RAOF> I'm on the geode failure.
[03:06] <bryceh> awesome, thanks
[03:07] <RAOF> I didn't pick it up, beacause !amd64
[03:07] <bryceh> aha
[03:10] <bryceh> RAOF, ok gonna go EOD for a bit; keep an eye on things, I'll check back in a couple hours or so in case of emergencies
[03:11] <RAOF> bryceh: Ta.   Have a relaxing evening!
[03:11] <bryceh> the dependency change for -intel that lool mentioned still needs done; I'll tackle that this evening but feel free to beat me to it ;-)
[03:12] <RAOF> I may well :)
[03:12] <bryceh> also, I stuck the build changes for -evdev into its git, but didn't do it for -intel
[03:13] <RAOF> Ok.  I can fold that in, too.
[03:13] <bryceh> ah -nouveau needs it too
[03:13] <bryceh> bbl
[04:31] <bryceh> RAOF, how's things stand?
[04:32] <RAOF> bryceh: I've just figured out precisely what's wrong with geode.  http://cooperteam.net/Packages/xserver-xorg-video-geode_2.11.11-1ubuntu1_source.changes is ready for sponsoring.
[04:37] <bryceh> thanks
[04:39] <bryceh> RAOF, ok uploaded
[04:40] <bryceh> ztv eh?
[04:40] <bryceh> ok, speaking of tv, if there's nothing else, gonna go watch a movie
[04:40] <RAOF> I guess you could mark bug #709134 as ready to upload.
[04:40] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 709134 in xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse (Ubuntu) "Sync xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse 1:<IP_ADDRESS>1-1 (main) from Debian experimental (main) (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709134
[04:40] <RAOF> s/upload/sync.
[04:40] <bryceh> ok
[04:41] <LLStarks> btw, i think i've only seen the 945gm graphical corruption once, if at all
[04:41] <LLStarks> might've been too drunk
[04:43] <bryceh> Amaranth mentioned it too; I suspect you and he both have the same bug.
[04:43] <LLStarks> raof or bryceh, can i do a safe-upgrade? some x packages are being upgraded.
[04:43] <LLStarks> will i have abi issues?
[04:43] <RAOF> You shouldn't be able to break things without removing packages.
[04:44] <RAOF> So a safe-upgrade should be safe.
[04:44] <bryceh> alrighty, will check back in a couple hours
[04:44] <LLStarks> so, if i let intel and evdev update, it's fine?
[04:44] <RAOF> Modulo, as always, proprietary drivers!
[04:44] <RAOF> If they can without removing other packages, yes.
[05:55] <bryceh> back
[10:26] <RAOF> Is there *really* anyone insane enough to want to pair an Intel i740 chip with an arm CPU? :)
[10:38] <tjaalton> heh, it's built on arm?-)
[10:41] <RAOF> Yes ):
[10:41] <RAOF> :)
[10:42] <tjaalton> maybe the right thing to do is to drop the driver altogether :)
[10:42] <RAOF> But how will users with 20 year old hardware use it to its full potential‽
[10:43] <RAOF> Dear lord.  That *is* 20 year old hardware, isn't it.
[10:43] <tjaalton> hmm, lets see
[10:43] <tjaalton> actually only 13y old
[10:44] <tjaalton> seems to be the first to use agp
[10:44] <RAOF> Oh, yeah.  That's right.
[10:44] <tjaalton> well, according to wikipedia
[10:44] <RAOF> So 1998?
[10:44] <tjaalton> yep
[10:44] <tjaalton> sooo 90's..
[10:44] <RAOF> Hm.  I thought it was older.
[10:45] <tjaalton> yeah, not like tseng which is pci (had an ET6000 on my first pc)
[10:46] <RAOF> I had a kick-arse pentium 90, with a... S3 virge?
[10:46] <RAOF> A full 2MB of video ram, too.
[10:46] <RAOF> Or maybe it was 4?
[10:46] <tjaalton> my first one was with k6-200
[11:30] <lool> xserver-xorg-input-mouse seems to either need a rebuild or be dropped from input-all?
[11:34] <RAOF> lool: Need a rebuild.  I'm on it.
[11:34] <RAOF> It also needs people to stop using it, but it's probably useful to some arcane hardware, like -keyboard is.
[11:39] <lool> RAOF: You might want to drop it from -input-all in the latter case?
[11:40] <RAOF> lool: It isn't *in* input-all.  At least on amd64.
[11:40] <lool> While I found the -video-all and -input-all approaches elegant, it would make more sense to treat these as -popular or something since we're effectively providing a subset
[11:40] <RAOF> -video-all-that-we-care-about :)
[11:40] <lool> RAOF: Oh right, vmmouse is; I'm not sure why my upgrade wanted to remove input-all, will tell you once I finish it
[11:41] <lool> RAOF: Yeah something like this  :)
[11:41] <RAOF> We'd need to drop a *lot* of drivers to get to -video-all-that-we-care-about :)
[11:41] <RAOF> For an example currently in my attention, I give you tdfx.  A card highly likely to be paired with an arm processor... :)
[11:42] <lool> RAOF: Ah vmmouse is what caused -all to go away
[11:42] <RAOF> Yeah.
[11:42] <RAOF> There's a big stack of rebuilds queuing up.
[11:43] <lool> RAOF: Queue seems empty
[11:43] <lool> 1 job
[11:43] <RAOF> Not at http://cooperteam.net/Packages
[11:44]  * lool is looking at https://launchpad.net/builders
[11:44] <lool> RAOF: what's this repo for?
[11:44] <RAOF> It's my staging sponsorship queue.
[11:45] <RAOF> Once I've got _all_ the needed rebuilds in there and tested, I'll dump it on pitti or cjwatson and go to sleep. :)
[11:45] <lool> Ah; I could offer sponsorship, but given the size and hence complexity of the Xorg transition and the fact we're in freeze already, I will leaveit to your regular sponsors
[11:46] <RAOF> Thanks.  Colin's already volunteered; I suspect he'd like the archive installable pronto :)
[11:47] <lool> eh
[11:48] <tjaalton> RAOF: I can sponsor as well
[11:49] <RAOF> tjaalton: That'd be nice.  I'm on -vesa now, so there's not much more to go in there.  I'll finish up, test build everything, and poke you?
[11:49] <tjaalton> sure
[13:28] <mdeslaur> It would appear I can't dist-upgrade at the moment. Is this known? http://paste.ubuntu.com/560951/
[13:29] <mdeslaur> ah, never mind, I just noticed all the uploads
[13:29] <tjaalton> yeah rebuilds needed
[13:30] <tjaalton> RAOF: so you got everything uploaded that was needed?
[16:41] <LLStarks> raof, are we still waiting for mouse and vmmouse to build?
[16:42] <tjaalton> mouse is fine
[16:42] <tjaalton> dunno about vmmouse
[16:42] <tjaalton> vmmouse built too
[16:42] <LLStarks> aptitude wants to remove both
[16:43] <tjaalton> your mirror isn't uptodate
[16:44] <LLStarks> main archive
[16:44] <LLStarks> wait, us archive
[16:45] <tjaalton> i bet it's lagging behind
[16:45] <LLStarks> switching
[16:47] <LLStarks> same prob with main
[16:48] <tjaalton> it could take an hour or two until they are moved there
[16:58] <bryceh> tjaalton, welcome to canonical :-)
[17:00] <tjaalton> bryceh: thanks :)
[17:02] <bryceh> tjaalton, did RAOF get everything uploaded he needed?
[17:04] <tjaalton> bryceh: I think so yeah
[17:08] <Sarvatt> bryceh: why do we always end up updating intel just in time for a new horribly busted kernel upload? :)
[17:08] <bryceh> Sarvatt, what's up?
[17:08] <Sarvatt> (2.6.38)
[17:09] <Sarvatt> last time we did it was 2.6.37 rc1 and we got a bunch of bugs that were kernel problems on intel too
[17:09] <bryceh> tjaalton, Sarvatt btw were you guys able to successfully upgrade to the new X via the archive?
[17:09] <Sarvatt> vmmouse and mouse still holding it back here
[17:09] <bryceh> hrm
[17:10] <Sarvatt> i need to set up another natty machine, got everything but my main laptop reinstalled to maverick at the moment for this hibernate issue
[17:10] <bryceh> Sarvatt, any chance you could pastebinit the failure messages?
[17:11] <Sarvatt> bryceh: AH mouse and vmmouse just updated in the last few minutes on us.archive.ubuntu.com
[17:11] <bryceh> sweet
[17:15] <tjaalton> I haven't tried upgrading yet
[17:20] <bryceh> tjaalton, yeah right now's not a great time to be upgrading :-)
[17:21] <LLStarks> uwaa
[17:22] <LLStarks> is there breakage?
[18:43] <bdmurray> might bug 711284 be X related?
[18:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 711284 in linux (Ubuntu) "After natty update today, system is unresponsive and freezes often (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711284
[18:46] <bryceh> bdmurray, hmm not the typical characteristics of an X bug but its possible
[18:46] <bryceh> bdmurray, we've not had other reports of an issue like that
[18:49] <bdmurray> bryceh: okay thanks
[22:10] <bryceh> RAOF, btw when you're online, rickspencer ran into an upgrade conflict that you might want to take a look at
[22:10] <bryceh> RAOF, looks a lot like what happens when you have xorg-edgers installed, but he says he doesn't so I'm not sure what is wrong
[22:26] <RAOF> bryceh: Where's Rick's report?
[22:30] <bryceh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/561141/
[22:31] <RAOF> Thanks.
[22:31] <bryceh> RAOF, I should have had him file an actual bug, but not sure if it was just configurational stuff
[22:32] <RAOF> Oooh, xserver-xorg-video-v4l
[22:32] <RAOF> That's not going to work, as V4L has been removed from the kernel.
[22:33] <RAOF> That could be it, or a part of it.
[22:36] <bryceh> driver rebuilder lives here now:  https://code.launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/xorg-server/xorg-pkg-tools
[22:38] <bryceh> I stuck the todo's in there, feel free to hack on it if you want.  converting it to python wouldn't be a bad idea either
[22:39] <bryceh> figure we can maybe work on it as we go through this again in the future
[22:39] <bryceh> btw I've done the xkeyboard-config merge
[22:39] <bryceh> too late for alpha2 (plus not really that critical anyway), but will shove it in after
[22:41] <RAOF> Great.