[12:18] <mdz> ogra_ibook: around?
[12:18] <ogra_ibook> sure
[12:22] <jdub> http://jon.oxer.com.au//blog/id/79
[12:24] <Burgwork> jdub, that makes about 8 books underway or published
[12:25] <seb128> is there a page with the books listed?
[12:25] <Burgwork> not currently but I can make one
[12:26] <seb128> do you have the new Eyrolles one on your list?
[12:26] <tseng> Burgwork: is ubuntu hacks in the oreilly hacks series?
[12:26] <tseng> ah, it is
[12:26] <Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBooks
[12:26] <seb128> it's listed
[12:27] <jdub> i didn't realise that annoying french guy wrote a version of his "moving to..." book about ubuntu
[12:28] <seb128> is "annoying" something you put automatically before "french guy"? :p
[12:29] <jdub> seb128: no, in this case he really is
[12:29] <jdub> marcel gagne
[12:29] <jdub> he abuses his frenchness
[12:29] <seb128> I you say so, I don't know him
[12:29] <seb128> ah
[12:30] <jdub> to give you an impression
[12:30] <jdub> his articles are all about bad food and wine metaphors to linux/foss
[12:30] <jdub> and he throws in a bunch of french about as usefully as i did at montreal
[12:30] <seb128> I see :)
[12:30] <HrdwrBoB> not just bad, terrible
[12:31] <jdub> aww haw haw! je ne sais pas! madamoiselle! oui oui!
[12:31] <jdub> seb128: dude, i'm going to be doing spanish lessons. :-)
[12:31] <seb128> un vrai abruti :p
[12:32] <jdub> haha
[12:32] <seb128> jdub: need them for next Ubuntu tour?
[12:33] <jdub> seb128: one of the girls up the hallway is a tastefully well-endowed uruguayan, who we'll be having "group sessions" with.
[12:33] <jdub> ;-)
[12:33] <seb128> jdub: btw are you going to the distro team week coming?
[12:33] <seb128> rofl
[12:33] <jdub> seb128: nup
[12:34] <seb128> :(
[12:35] <seb128> but you come at fosdem right?
[12:36] <jdub> yup!
[12:36] <seb128> ah, nice :)
[01:26] <psusi> anyone ever debug a coredump from a multithreaded program?  I was trying to do that today and gdb was showing complete nonsense for the register content of the other threads
[01:31] <lifeless> psusi: if its a single cpu machine, only one thread can have register contents
[01:32] <lifeless> the rest will be in process control blocks
[01:32] <lifeless> (I forget the exact linux term)
[01:34] <psusi> well, yea, they are't in real hardware registers, but gdb knows that and should be getting them from the thread control block where they are stored
[01:35] <psusi> hell, the registers for the thread that crashed aren't in real hardware registers either... they are in the coredump file ;)
[01:36] <psusi> so I'm thinking that I am missing something obvious you need to do to get gdb to understand the multithreaded coredump right, or get the process to generate a correct multithreaded coredump
[01:49] <TheMuso> c
[02:06] <jdub> http://raw-output.org/20060113/solutions
[02:17] <jcape> heh
[02:18] <Amaranth> http://raw-output.org/20051103/the-real-threat-for-debian is funnier :)
[02:23] <lifeless> they spelt it wrong
[02:23] <lifeless> its 'grumpy'
[02:23] <tseng> that post is months old
[02:42] <Riddell> mdz: please promote to main cdrdao (http://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportCdrdao), ttf-arphic-uming (http://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportTtfarphicuming), ttf-arphic-ukai (http://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportTtfarphicukai)
[02:45] <jsgotangco> Amaranth, i really like gentu heh
[02:46] <mdz> Riddell: did pitti approve the reports already?
[02:47] <Riddell> mdz: yes
[02:48] <mdz> Riddell: cdrdao is already in main
[02:48] <mdz> though it build-depends on pccts, which is not in main
[02:48] <mdz> pccts doesn't seem to have a report yet
[02:48] <mdz> promoted the font packages
[02:49] <Riddell> oops, sorry, will look into that
[03:00] <lucasd> will dapper have support to winmodens?
[03:00] <Amaranth> some
[03:01] <Amaranth> no conexant or whatever the name is though
[03:01] <Amaranth> which seems to be the most common
[03:01] <lucasd> hm, I see..
[03:01] <lucasd> just that one?
[03:01] <Amaranth> no
[03:01] <Amaranth> lots
[03:02] <Amaranth> only a couple of others work that didn't in breezy
[03:02] <lucasd> hmmm
[03:02] <Amaranth> there was a thread on u-d about it awhile ago
[03:02] <lucasd> I'll look for it
[03:02] <lucasd> thanks ;)
[03:04] <infinity> I may or may not try to get slmodem support into dapper, depending on how much effort it turns out to be.
[03:05] <infinity> But at least we got ltmodem in, which seems to make some people happy.
[03:05] <infinity> (Or, rather, not having it in breezy made some people angry, so I'm assuming they're now happy)
[03:06] <lucasd> hehe
[03:19] <desrt> is hal-device-manager broken for everyone right now (dapper)?
[03:31] <Riddell> mdz: please promote kthesaurus to main, part of koffice
[03:55] <jamesh> bugzilla migration day today
[04:01] <jsgotangco> weee
[04:03] <Lathiat> jamesh: fun :)
[04:12] <daniels> jamesh: hoorah
[04:25] <daniels> mdz: does malone mean the death of debzilla?
[04:41] <jamesh> daniels: we'll be working on a debzilla equivalent
[04:42] <daniels> jamesh: phat, thanks
[04:42] <daniels> also, in other news, accelerated indirect support just got committed to xserver/xorg CVS
[04:43] <Burgundavia> daniels, what does that mean in practical terms?
[04:43] <jamesh> Burgundavia: accelerated OpenGL for remote programs, for one.
[04:45] <daniels> right
[04:46] <Lathiat> daniels: is there an open bug about ALPS touchpads slowing down again?
[04:46] <Lathiat>  / known ?
[04:47] <jdub> daniels: did you see my xorg logs? still don't have touchpad love
[04:47] <daniels> Lathiat: yes
[04:48] <daniels> jdub: yes, they're flagged
[04:48] <Lathiat> daniels: known or bug? if bug, url?
[04:49] <jdub> daniels: thanks
[04:50] <daniels> Lathiat: bug, don't have it offhand, sorry
[04:50] <daniels> Lathiat: basically the solution is to multiply your accel factor by 1.5 (IIRC)
[04:51] <Lathiat> yeh i did up some custom attributed in xorg.conf
[04:52] <daniels> actually, hm
[04:52] <daniels> jdub: can you please resend or put them up quickly?
[04:56] <floam> Burgundavia: man, I don't think I could disagree with you more over the walkman thing. The mail I was replying to was commenting on how the walkman had you hold two buttons down at once to pause it.
[04:57] <floam> I don't think anything on a physical device should translate into a GNOME music player UI
[04:57] <Burgundavia> floam, I am not saying replicate the whole UI. I am saying that those bits which work and keep them
[04:57] <floam> I assume you got my reply and the comment about gnome-cd
[04:57] <Burgundavia> yes I did
[04:58] <floam> which does a pretty good emulation of a physical CD player
[04:58] <jdub> daniels: hrm
[04:58] <Burgundavia> actually, gnome-cd fits into the "later and crappier" cd players I was talking about
[04:58] <daniels> jdub: i thought it was an email, but I can't seem to find it now
[04:58] <floam> the walkman never played cds
[04:59] <Burgundavia> floam, media player then
[04:59] <daniels> floam: actually, the discman and md lines were rebranded to walkman
[04:59] <floam> the walkman "ui" wouldn't work too well for anything with tracks, I don't think
[04:59] <jdub> daniels: 'twas
[04:59] <Burgundavia> floam, a singel big button is great
[04:59] <floam> daniels: oh, really?
[04:59] <daniels> floam: indeed
[04:59] <floam> Burgundavia: I agree
[04:59] <daniels> jdub: yeah, what I have from you is ati and fglrx, not touchpad
[05:00] <Burgundavia> floam, that is the functionality I was talking about regarding a walkman, not lots of buttons the same size
[05:00] <jdub> daniels: oh, you want logs of the two different drivers? neither work
[05:00] <floam> Burgundavia: I thought the discussion was going on about the label changing?
[05:00] <Burgundavia> floam, that was part of it
[05:00] <floam> and then a guy brought up that a label (obviously) can't change on a walkman, which toggles in
[05:01] <daniels> jdub: i already have logs from both ati and fglrx from you, but nothing about touchpads ;) got xserver-xorg-input-synaptics installed? (i.e. not xorg-driver-synaptics)
[05:01] <Burgundavia> floam, that is a restriction of the format (a piece of plastic)
[05:01] <floam> and I think that basing your UI on the limitations of a plastic player, even if correct in one situation, is a sort of bad thing to begin doing often
[05:01] <floam> Burgundavia: absolutely
[05:02] <jdub> daniels: yeah
[05:02] <Burgundavia> floam, that is not what i am saying. I am saying lets look at what works on physical media players and see if they can be applied to Muine.
[05:02] <floam> Burgundavia: sure.
[05:02] <Burgundavia> floam, sorry if I was not clear. Anyway, we should stop filling the logs on this channel
[05:02] <floam> Burgundavia: I was really commenting on that guy and his one situation
[05:03] <floam> Burgundavia: it seemed to me in your email that you wanted to use the walkman as the ultimate GNOME UI for a music player for all circumstances, which sort of worried me
[05:03] <floam> perhaps I read it too quickly
[05:03] <Burgundavia> floam, likely I was not complete enough in my explanation
[05:03] <floam> log filling done
[05:03] <floam> :)
[05:21] <Burgundavia> jdub, would you call Xubuntu a partner project ala Kubuntu and Edubuntu?
[05:23] <jdub> Burgundavia: well, not really
[05:23] <jdub> mostly
[05:23] <jdub> but not in an officialish kind of support way
[05:24] <Burgundavia> jdub, I am writing a piece of partner projects and derived distros and am thus stuck with Xubuntu. It sort of falls into the middle
[05:26] <jsgotangco> "community" partner?
[05:26] <Burgundavia> ick
[05:26] <infinity> It's developed and integrated in the same way (ie: hosted entirely in the Ubuntu archive), but maintained entirely by volunteers and not supported by Canonical.
[05:26] <jsgotangco> the base is supported but not the de
[05:26] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:26] <jdub> Burgundavia: 'community supported ubuntu derivative'
[05:26] <infinity> That works.
[05:27] <infinity> jsgotangco: You take away the desktop and you don't have Xubuntu anymore, you have Ubuntu, so the distinction of what is and isn't supported is a bit meaningless. :)
[05:28] <Burgundavia> jdub, but that wording could also apply to Nexenta and nUbuntu
[05:29] <jdub> Burgundavia: indeed, that is its beauty
[05:30] <jsgotangco> one term to rule them all?
[05:30] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:31] <Burgundavia> jdub, but Nexenta has a company behind it and Guadelinex has a government
[05:31] <infinity> Okay, this kernel bug has finally irritated me enough to figure it out.
[05:31] <infinity> Having music skip when I'm compiling is unacceptable.
[05:31] <jdub> Burgundavia: so simplify
[05:31] <Burgundavia> jdub, classify it as simply an Ubuntu derivative?
[05:32] <jdub> sure
[05:32] <infinity> Where the files are hosted may be technically relevant, but doesn't really matter to end users.
[05:33] <infinity> So, a derivative is a derviative, regardless of where they download it from.
[05:33] <Burgundavia> jdub, the other issue is that xubuntu.org redirects to ubuntu.com
[05:35] <jdub> Burgundavia: i figure the admins will fix that when the xubuntu dudes are ready
[05:36] <Burgundavia> jdub, ok. <troll>will we fix it for the utubnu people too?</troll>
[05:37] <jdub> i dunno, nor do i know if they've requested it
[06:14] <fabbione> morning
[06:56] <floam> hm
[06:56] <floam> it seems like some change in GTK recently made my filechooser default to my ~/Documents dir. Is there a way to set the default? gconf?
[06:56] <floam> in dapper, last few days
[06:57] <Burgundavia> floam, see the thread on -desktop
[06:57] <Burgundavia> sadly that is currrently hardcoded I believe
[06:57] <floam> oh, maybe not
[06:57] <floam> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-January/004624.html
[06:58] <floam> if GTK_DEFAULT_FILECHOOSE_DIR can be set in the environment
[06:58] <floam> ... which it can't.
[07:09] <infinity> Or, at least, found another bug, and it may be the last one...
[07:42] <jamesstansell> is the progress on the conversion from bugzilla to malone being tracked anywhere?
[08:22] <ajmitch> morning pitti
[08:22] <pitti> Hi ajmitch
[08:22] <pitti> good morning
[08:23] <desrt> pitti is here.
[08:23] <Tm_T> oh, what a pitti
[08:23] <desrt> pitti; will you be merging any new hal versions for dapper?
[08:23] <Tm_T> errr pity
[08:23] <Tm_T> ;)
[08:29] <desrt> pitti; wb, G.
[08:29] <pitti> one crash later...good morning take #2
[08:29] <pitti> hi desrt
[08:30] <desrt> my question: will you be merging a new hal version for dapper?
[08:30] <pitti> desrt: I hope that 0.5.6 will come out soon enough
[08:30] <pitti> desrt: Friday 19th is UVF
[08:31] <desrt> nod.
[08:31] <pitti> on the list it sounded as if it could make it earlier
[08:31] <desrt> 19th is thursday
[08:31] <desrt> i saw you on the hal list kicking ass
 we don't have bugs!! if we do, prove it!!
 uh.  that took about 5 seconds and grep.
[08:33] <fabbione> ehehhe
[08:33] <fabbione> pitti: you rock dude
[08:33] <pitti> heh
[08:33] <desrt> fabbione; be careful about what USB keys you go plugging into your ubuntu system.  some of them can crash hald :)
[08:34] <pitti> desrt: usually you can exploit these kind of bugs to execute arbitrary code, too
[08:34] <fabbione> desrt: fix hald :)
[08:34] <desrt> pitti; right.  any sort of buffer smashing....
[08:34] <desrt> pitti; are our stacks executable?
[08:35] <pitti> fabbione: well, my main point is to keep it as confined as it is ATM, then I don't care so much about these bugs
[08:35] <desrt> pitti; you really substantially improve your position with non-executable stacks
[08:35] <pitti> desrt: yes, but that one was a heap overflow
[08:35] <desrt> ah
[08:35] <pitti> desrt: I'm aware of that, and I so much look forward to switch to gcc 4.1 with ssp/fortify
[08:36] <Yagisan> pitti: me too
[08:36] <pitti> desrt: nonexecutable stack always requires external patches, a bit tricky to get that approved for main
[08:36] <Yagisan> pitti: oh, and G'day :)
[08:36] <desrt> pitti; or cpu support
[08:36] <pitti> desrt: that's why grsec rocks so much, one patch to cover it all :)
[08:36] <fabbione> pitti: gcc-4.1 will have ssp/fortify upstream?
[08:37] <pitti> hey Yagisan
[08:37] <pitti> fabbione: s/will have/has for a while/
[08:37] <pitti> fabbione: yes, finally
[08:37] <fabbione> pitti: ok :)
[08:37] <Yagisan> fabbione: their own version (non-ibm developed) yes
[08:37] <Yagisan> pitti: will it be on by default when ready ?
[08:37] <fabbione> i wonder how bad is going to break on non i386 arches
[08:39] <Yagisan> fabbione: not much it seems amd64 has 0 performance impact from it. pitti, do you remember if the ibm ssp patch broke on non-i386 ? I don't think it did
[08:39] <pitti> Yagisan: even if it's not on by default upstream, I will fight for enabling it in Ubuntu :)
[08:39] <Yagisan> fabbione: i386 gets a small performance hit, because of lack of registers, other should be ok
[08:40] <pitti> Yagisan: I didn't hear stories about breakage; also, SSP is so old and proven, I don't expect many problems
[08:40] <Yagisan> pitti: please please do. Fight hard
[08:40] <pitti> it's not that this would be an innovation, several other distros use it for literally years
[08:40] <fabbione> Yagisan: i am not worried about performances.. really..
[08:41] <ajmitch> pitti: it will really be a good improvement in dapper+1
[08:42] <pitti> yes, it was rejected for dapper due to its long support cycle
[08:42] <pitti> but then it's time to rock the house again :)
[08:42] <Yagisan> :( boo
[08:42] <ajmitch> :)
[08:42] <ajmitch> Yagisan: it's hard to put something new & untested in dapper though
[08:43] <Yagisan> ajmitch: this reminds me of when I had this discussion for breezy ....
[08:43] <ajmitch> Yagisan: I know..
[08:44] <ajmitch> I would have liked 4.1 to be ready & tested so we could trust dapper with it
[08:44] <Yagisan> ajmitch: universe ?
[08:45] <ajmitch> there's been no 4.1 release that I've seen
[08:46] <mdke> mako, any chance of pushing through my mail to -news from a couple of weeks back?
[08:47] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I like to call it cvs ;) but this should really be on by default - esp for servers, firewalls, it's a good selling point.
[08:48] <pitti> hi doko
[08:48] <doko> pitti: good morning
[08:48] <ajmitch> Yagisan: sure, that's what I would like ;)
[08:48] <ajmitch> morning doko
[08:49] <Yagisan> G'day doko
[08:52] <Yagisan> ajmitch, pitti - so after ssp, pax or similar next ?
[08:52] <doko> ajmitch: only if ssp doesn't match in a ten line context :)
[08:53] <pitti> Yagisan: I for my part love PaX; there was a lot of bitching about exec-shield, but I'm no expert to say for myself whether that's justified
[08:53] <pitti> Yagisan: what do you say? You should be an expert :)
[08:54] <Yagisan> pitti: pax is technically better, but lags kernel releases. Will never go upstream
[08:54] <ajmitch> doko: nearly all universe zope packages have been requested as syncs now, so we have little deviation - just some debian packages that don't use zope-debhelper still :)
[08:54] <Yagisan> pitti: execsheild is pushed by red had
[08:54] <pitti> Yagisan: will any stack protection go upstrem? it's high time for sth like this IMHO
[08:54] <Yagisan> pitti: they also maintain glibc - so they pushed it in
[08:54] <ajmitch> Yagisan: reminds me of the discussion in sydney :)
[08:56] <Yagisan> pitti, ajmitch: exec sheild will get in, because red hat pushes it, and has already begun digging it into glibc, not because it is better, but because they have more kernel and glibc hackers
[08:57] <Yagisan> pitti, ajmitch: and there will continue to be pax vs exec sheild flames
[08:57] <ajmitch> and PaX lost a fair bit of momentum with that hole that was discovered, and that no mainstream distro carries it as default
[08:58] <Yagisan> ajmitch: exec sheild also has been discovered to not provide as much protection - diff is pax was more upfront
[08:58] <pitti> hm, sad
[08:59] <pitti> and exec-shield cannot be improved?
[08:59] <Yagisan> ajmitch, pitti: that particular pax issue only effected i586 and earlier boxes
[08:59] <Yagisan> pitti: it's a design issue :(
[09:00] <ajmitch> Yagisan: sure, but it didn't help them much
[09:00] <ajmitch> the technically superior design is often not the one that succeeds
[09:03] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I know - that's why there is windows :(
[09:03] <Yagisan> bbl - bye all
[09:03] <ajmitch> see you later
[09:05] <StevenK> Right.
[09:06] <StevenK> Finally got moin sorted out.
[09:06] <ajmitch> great
[09:06] <mdke> what installation method does it use?
[09:07] <ajmitch> StevenK: you probably got my nag email then :)
[09:08] <StevenK> mdke: It just stuffs everything underneath /usr/share/moin. It up to you to copy it out to the moin's.
[09:08] <StevenK> 1.5.0 is way slicker.
[09:08] <mdke> what about the webserver?
[09:09] <StevenK> The config of the webserver is up to you too.
[09:09] <mdke> ok
[09:10] <Keybuk> Today is Rex Manning^W^WMalone Day?
[09:11] <pitti> quick, seb128, fix all your bugs before you have to deal with them in malone :)
[09:18] <Burgundavia> Mez, you are not the only one. It is something I have seen nearly every bug reporter/triager complain about
[09:19] <Mez> Burgundavia, I remember it being bitched about at UBZ lol - I think by Scott ...
[09:19] <Mez> lol - it's very annoying and i hope moving bugzilla to malone will make people realise it's horrible
[09:19] <Mez> bring back the old way
[09:19] <Burgundavia> you could actually sort the columns on the fly in the old table
[09:19] <Burgundavia> I told bradb exactly why the new layout sucked at UBZ
[09:19] <Mez> I know :'(
[09:20] <Mez> because you cant get any information out of it quickly ?
[09:20] <Mez> ok, it looks "purdy" but it's not useful
[09:21] <Burgundavia> it expect malone to move quickly once the distro team starts using it
[09:22] <Keybuk> Burgundavia: the plan is to tie bradb to a chair, and force him to code at gunpoint
[09:22] <Keybuk> without the luxury of the girl in his lap, either
[09:22] <fabbione> ehehe
[09:22] <Mez> Keybuk - wouldnt it be very hard to code with a girl in your lap ?
[09:23] <Burgundavia> Keybuk, can I help buy the ropes? I might start doing bug triage again
[09:26] <Keybuk> tsk, clearly Mez has never seen Swordfish
[09:28] <Mithrandir> uhm, I'm apparently clueless.  How do I close a bug in malone?
[09:28] <Mithrandir> oh, I could click the status.
[09:28] <Mithrandir> it's _obvious_ that orange stuff is a link
[09:28] <Mithrandir> *sigh*
[09:30] <Keybuk> yeah, great isn't it
[09:30] <Keybuk> that's a Markism
[09:30] <ajmitch> at least the UI *probably* won't radically change every 2-3 weeks now
[09:30] <Keybuk> ajmitch: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[09:30] <Keybuk> ;)
[09:31] <ajmitch> I know, I shouldn't be an optimist
[09:31] <Burgundavia> oh and orange on orange is a great way to display text
[09:33] <jamesh> ajmitch: it hasn't radically changed in a long time
[09:33] <ajmitch> jamesh: certain parts of launchpad have changed a bit in confusing ways recently
[09:34] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I'm considering just writing xml-rpc helpers and custom stylesheets for stuff I actually want to do.
[09:34] <jamesh> Mithrandir: and it looks like mpt has just made a commit to make the unconfirmed status text easier to read
[09:34] <StevenK> Yes, like the statuses of bugs.
[09:34] <Mithrandir> jamesh: well, I would like something like "edit bug" or "change status" or something in the list of actions on the right hand side.
[09:35] <jamesh> Mithrandir: sure.
[09:35] <jamesh> Mithrandir: it would probably be in the table though: you can have multiple rows in that "fix requested in" table.
[09:36] <pitti> ajmitch: heh, I for my part hope that the UI will change soon, to make it a smaller clickfest
[09:37] <ajmitch> pitti: as long as I don't spend 10 minutes trying to figure out what to click :)
[09:38] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: heh, it's not that bad once you get used to it
[09:38] <jamesh> Mithrandir: we'll probably have RDF dumps of bug info at some point, which could help.
[09:38] <Keybuk> it's certainly no worse than, e.g. Bugzilla
[09:38] <Keybuk> but it's no debbugs
[09:39] <jamesh> thank god it's no debbugs.
[09:39] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: but bugzilla is really, really bad. :-)
[09:39] <Mithrandir> jamesh: debbugs is _excellent_ from the developer's point of view.
[09:39] <jamesh> Mithrandir: don't worry.  I just had bad experiences with older versions of debbugs.
[09:39] <hunger> Keybuk: It takes a lot of getting used to though.
[09:40] <Keybuk> hunger: so does Bugzilla :-/
[09:40] <jamesh> Mithrandir: we used to use it for Gnome
[09:40] <Mithrandir> hunger: well.. I don't care if it takes time to get used to, when I'm going to spend half my time trawling through it.
[09:40] <Keybuk> jamesh: to be fair, the version you used for gnome was ancient and not even set up properly!
[09:40] <hunger> Keybuk: Bugzilla is *WAY* less confusing.
[09:40] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir, an awful to quickly parse information in the web interface
[09:41] <jamesh> bugzilla pages seem to take a lot longer to load compared to Launchpad bug pages for me.
[09:41] <hunger> Keybuk: That following the bug link takes me to different places depending on where I started keeps confusing me without end.
[09:41] <jamesh> (for bugzilla.ubuntu.com, that is)
[09:41] <Keybuk> Malone's editing sucks right now though
[09:41] <Keybuk> it needs an edit-everything-in-one-place makeover, preferably with edit-and-read-everything-in-one-place
[09:42] <Burgundavia> currently the bugzilla list view kicks the crap out of malones
[09:42] <Keybuk> yeah that needs to be improved too
[09:43] <Burgundavia> the old way was much better
[09:43] <Burgundavia> with the sortable tables, one bug per one line
[09:43] <StevenK> mv #ubuntu-devel #beat-on-malone
[09:44] <Keybuk> the trouble with the sortables in Malone is they got way too big
[09:44] <Burgundavia> you know what is really really sad. I (and others) have been saying this for ages and *nothing* has been done
[09:44] <Keybuk> you needed an ultra-high-res widescreen laptop to read them
[09:44] <Burgundavia> Keybuk, the final version before they canned it wasn't bad
[09:44] <Keybuk> Burgundavia: that's sadly a general lp problem, it takes a long time to persuade the developers that they're wrong and the users are right :D
[09:44] <Keybuk> and then a few months later, they change it back anyway <g>
[09:44] <Keybuk> and you had to beat them up
[09:44] <Keybuk> like bradb trying to break the e-mails again <g>
[09:45] <Burgundavia> I remember the instant that tables change happening, ajmitch, myself and others bitching out the lp devs about it
[09:45] <Burgundavia> I think lp is great, it just need serious UI work
[09:45] <hunger> Burgundavia: So far I only saw the UI and did not like it a bit.
[09:46] <Keybuk> Burgundavia: yeah, jbailey and I had fun at UBZ with the UI ... it's improved a bit since then
[09:46] <Keybuk> the navigation almost makes some sense now
[09:46] <Keybuk> though the pages still feel sqashed
[09:46] <Burgundavia> Keybuk, I was there when you presented your idea. I liked it
[09:46] <hunger> Burgundavia: Try viewing it in IE for the full viewing fun.
[09:46] <Keybuk> Burgundavia: though you're not always right ;)  you're wrong about how e-mails should be sent, for example
[09:47] <Burgundavia> Keybuk, I never pretend to be always right. I simply argue what I think is best
[09:47] <Keybuk> :p
[09:48] <Burgundavia> Keybuk, at least the emailing doesn't break threads like it used to
[09:49] <jamesh> we do need to get some of the mailing list configs fixed to work with LP emails though
[09:50] <Burgundavia> jamesh, is there a "high priority, must fix because otherwise the distro team will kill us" bug list?
[09:50] <Keybuk> jamesh: will Malone send all "main" package bugs to the ubuntu-bugs list?
[09:52] <jamesh> Keybuk: that's something that needs to be fixed up.  We don't have a "distro component bug contact" idea.  Just initial contacts for packages, products and distributions
[09:53] <jamesh> Keybuk: Burgundavia there is a 1.1 milestone for stuff we want to get fixed soon.  It would be good to bring up the requests on #launchpad or launchpad-users
[09:54] <Burgundavia> jamesh, ok
[09:55] <Burgundavia> jamesh, https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+milestone/1.1/+index
[09:55] <Burgundavia> ^ should I have access to that page?
[09:58] <jamesh> Burgundavia: weird.
[09:58] <jamesh> Burgundavia: sounds like an issue with private bugs
[09:58] <Burgundavia> jamesh, hmm, ugly
[10:02] <Kamion> StevenK: AIUI all new @u.c e-mails are broken at the moment due to some script having broken due to a launchpad change; James said he'd rather fix the script than fix individual people's addresses
[10:03] <dholbach> good morning
[10:03] <jsgotangco> dholbach!
[10:03] <Burgundavia> dholbach, you saying good morning means it is way too late for me to be up. Night all
[10:03] <pitti> night Burgundavia
[10:03] <dholbach> night Burgundavia
[10:03] <dholbach> hey jsgotangco
[10:03] <jsgotangco> night
[10:04] <jamesh> Kamion: the problem was with people setting their preferred email address in LP to an @u.c address
[10:05] <jamesh> Kamion: which is a problem if the @u.c addresses were acting as redirects to the user's preferred address in LP
[10:05] <Mithrandir> dholbach: any idea about 16216?  It's not a locales issue.
[10:07] <dholbach> Mithrandir: we have a bunch of those, and to be honest: i have no idea what goes wrong
[10:08] <Mithrandir> dholbach: it appears to be a bug in the calendar control, since I can reproduce it using glade.
[10:11] <dholbach> Mithrandir: let me try to find the bug where upstream told us it was no g* bug :)
[10:12] <Mithrandir> dholbach: please do
[10:17] <Mithrandir> hmm, apparently, our locales are broken in that respect
[10:18] <Mithrandir> dholbach: 87977 might be the bug
[10:20] <Kamion> jamesh: right ...
[10:20] <dholbach> Mithrandir: oh yeah, looks good - most upstream 'week' bugs for gtk seem to be resolved as DUP or NOTABUG :)
[10:21] <Mithrandir> dholbach: but then, I'm utterly unable to actually change the day the week starts on.
[10:24] <dholbach> Mithrandir: i suggest we try to talk to mclasen in #gtk+ on gimpnet - he will know what we have to look out for.
[10:24] <Kamion> argh, kernel ABI bump
[10:25] <Kamion> now I have to rebuild d-i and all CD images before flight 3 :(
[10:25] <highvoltage> yay
[10:25] <Kamion> hmm, mind you, it's all in NEW ...
[10:26] <Kamion> elmo: please defer NEWage of the kernel ABI bump for a while, thanks
[10:26] <Mithrandir> grr, you can't regenerate a locale, it seems.
[10:28] <fabbione> Kamion: meh.. i need the new kernel today :(
[10:29] <Mithrandir> pitti: around?
[10:29] <Kamion> fabbione: you can have it later; I need the new kernel not now
[10:29] <Mithrandir> pitti: can I blame you for line 77 through 80 in locale-gen? :-)
[10:29] <fabbione> Kamion: you do.. there is a very important fix for amd64..
[10:29] <Kamion> fabbione: you all suck :P
[10:29] <fabbione> Kamion: and we do it good!
[10:29] <Kamion> what breaks?
[10:30] <fabbione> the old one has severe I/O issues because the SMP2UP patch was not applied properly
[10:30] <fabbione> in some cases it just dies
[10:30] <Kamion> damn it
[10:30] <Kamion> elmo: belay that
[10:30] <Kamion> I still hate you all
[10:30] <fabbione> Kamion: we do love you :P
[10:30] <fabbione> really
[10:31] <Kamion> as penance you can test CD images for me when they're rebuilt
[10:32] <fabbione> Kamion: at what time do you expect to have them done?
[10:32] <fabbione> Kamion: i really can help test them.. but i would like to plan some sleeping activities too :)
[10:32] <fabbione> i am dead tired today
[10:33] <Kamion> well, sure, I'd like some sleep too
[10:33] <Kamion> dunno, a few hours
[10:33] <fabbione> ok
[10:35] <Nafallo> fabbione: ehrm. that means my computer will stop sometime later today? if you fixed it you will get the largest HUG in history :-)
[10:36] <Nafallo> ehrm, will stop freezing even :-P
[10:36] <fabbione> Nafallo: it should.. yes
[10:36] <Nafallo> yay!
[10:37] <fabbione> Kamion: this new kernel will also actually fix -server stuff
[10:37] <fabbione> so we can start switching the images
[10:38] <Kamion> not going to attempt that until next week, but sure
[10:38] <fabbione> of course
[10:38] <fabbione> i didn't expect you to do it now
[10:38] <ajmitch> sigh
[10:38] <ajmitch> upstream trying to convince me to ship another set of gtk# source+binaries, built with their compiler, not mono's
[10:44] <Keybuk> ugh, I'd forgotten how obtuse Launchpad's login system is
[10:53] <dexem> what time is the change to Malone expected?
[10:54] <siretart> elmo: please sync arson from unstable, ok to override ubuntu changes
[11:05] <viviersf> daniels, ping
[11:08] <Kamion> dexem: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-January/000051.html
[11:09] <Kamion> ogra_ibook: oops, just found out the reason for your locale breakage
[11:09] <Kamion> ogra_ibook: new localechooser hasn't built
[11:09] <dexem> Kamion: thanks :D
[11:13] <rleigh> Hi folks.  How do I find who the last person to upload my packages?  They no longer appear in the changelog for some reason.
[11:13] <dholbach> rleigh: doesn't http://packages.ubuntu.com have the changelogs?
[11:14] <dholbach> hi btw :)
[11:14] <siretart> hi rleigh. I think the changelog should help you out
[11:14] <rleigh> dholbach: Yes, but later versions of my (Debian) package seem to have superseded the ubuntu change history.
[11:14] <ajmitch> rleigh: which package, btw?
[11:14] <rleigh> gimp-print
[11:15] <dholbach> rleigh: I "synced" the gutenprint package; gimp-print is superseded now, no?
[11:15] <rleigh> There were three ubuntu-specific bugfix uploads last year (since integrated), but the record is gone.
[11:16] <rleigh> dholbach: Yes, it's gone from testing/unstable.
[11:16] <siretart> gimp-print | 4.3.99+cvs20051122.dfsg.1-2 |      unstable | i386, powerpc
[11:16] <siretart> huh?
[11:16] <dholbach> rleigh: did you want to look up the changes?
[11:16] <siretart> in sync with dapper
[11:17] <ajmitch> rleigh: they'll still be recorded on the dapper-changes list (or breezy-changes)
[11:17] <dholbach> rleigh: i have the package locally - let me check
[11:17] <rleigh> dholbach: Yes.  I just wanted to contact the last person who changed it, because a user reported a rather bizarre problem.
[11:17] <dholbach> package source
[11:18] <dholbach> rleigh: i'll paste it in the query
[11:21] <siretart> rleigh: the last persons who touched gimp-print seem to have been pitti and infinity
[11:21] <rleigh> Thanks folks.
[11:22] <dholbach> :)
[11:23] <siretart> :)
[11:34] <siretart> does anyone know how to contact fabian franz best?
[11:37] <mvo> mjg59: you still get messageboxes from g-p-m instead of notifications? this is odd, because g-p-m was build with notify support and the buildlog looks ok
[11:41] <mjg59> mvo: I haven't upgraded since earlier this week, but yes
[11:41] <mjg59> Just let me check
[11:42] <mvo> mjg59: I wonder if you get anything in ~/.xsession-errors about a failed init of libnotify or something
[11:44] <mjg59> mvo: Nope
[11:47] <mjg59> mvo: Hmm. I don't have a notify-daemon running.
[11:47] <Treenaks> doesn't that get started automagically?
[11:48] <mjg59> I'd have thought so
[11:49] <mjg59> No, starting that and restarting g-p-m doesn't change anything
[11:49] <mjg59> So something seems broken
[11:55] <mvo> mjg59: and no messages somewhere? do you still have "notification-daemon" installed? does it help if you remove it first?
[11:56] <mjg59> mvo: Still no messages, notification-daemon is not installed (though its config files are)
[11:57] <mjg59> mvo: Which means there's still a /etc/dbus-1/system.d/notification-daemon.conf, though that shouldn't break anything?
[12:09] <mvo> mjg59: no, that shouldn't break anything. I'll have a closer look now. IIRC update-notifier did send you "correct" notificiatons, so the notificaiton system itself is working?
[12:12] <mjg59> mvo: I'm not running update-notifier right now. Hang on a sec.
[12:15] <mjg59> mvo: Yea, update-notifier works
[12:21] <mvo> mjg59: ok, thanks for testing that
[12:23] <siretart> elmo: please sync dx from unstable, ok to override ubuntu changes
[12:23] <mjg59> My power_on_hours seems to be in minutes
[12:23] <mjg59> Oops
[12:25] <jsgotangco> cheers
[12:25] <dholbach> have fun, jsgotangco
[12:25] <Gagatan> too early for beers here I'm afraid..
[12:37] <siretart> Kamion: do you know what to do with these package currently in universe: linux-kernel-di-i386-2.6 and linux-kernel-di-powerpc-2.6?
[12:37] <siretart> Kamion: remove and blacklist from syncing?
[12:42] <Kamion> siretart: yes, that would be reasonable
[12:42] <ogra_ibook> Kamion, ouch ...
[12:42] <ogra_ibook> Kamion, do you know why it didnt build  ?#
[12:43] <Kamion> ogra_ibook: already fixed
[12:43] <siretart> Kamion: can you do that (or ask elmo to do it)?
[12:43] <ogra_ibook> cool :)
[12:43] <Kamion> elmo: please remove and sync-blacklist linux-kernel-di-*
[12:51] <dholbach> vurdak: please turn the away-script off
[12:52] <vurdak> dholbach, ok
[12:52] <vurdak> sorry
[12:52] <dholbach> vurdak: merci beaucoup :)
[12:53] <janimo> Kamion, please tell elmo to also remove xfprint and xffm4-icons source packages too from the archive. they are deprecated/replaced by xfprint4 and xffm4 thanks
[12:54] <crimsun> janimo: same for xterminal, correct?
[12:54] <crimsun> no real reason to have it hanging around due to xfce4-terminal
[12:56] <Kamion> janimo: please do it yourself
[12:56] <Kamion> I'm not an elmo-proxy; I only did the above because I know about linux-kernel-di-*
[01:00] <janimo> crimsun, right
[01:01] <janimo> Kamion, ok I asked him a couple of times this past week already
[01:01] <siretart> what about these kernel-patch-* packages, shouldn't we remove and blacklist them as well?
[01:02] <ajmitch> siretart: yes, we should
[01:02] <janimo> elmo, please remove xffm4-icons, xterminal, xprint source packages from the archive. also sync xfce4-terminal from sid. thank you
[01:03] <janimo> elmo, xfprint above sorry
[01:04] <jamesh> seb128: did the config change for the desktop-bugs mailing list help with the malone emails?
[01:05] <Riddell> Kamion: today's install CDs for Kubuntu are good but the live CDs from yesterday are broken (couldn't open directory /lib/modules/2.6.15-11-powerpc), will rebuilding the live CDs magically fix that?
[01:07] <siretart> I'd propose to blacklist  kernel-patch-* kernel-source-2.4* kernel-tree-2.4* kernel-image-* kernel-headers-*
[01:08] <siretart> does anyone think this would be unreasonable or why this hasn't been already done?
[01:13] <Kamion> Riddell: yeah
[01:14] <Kamion> well, should do
[01:14] <Riddell> I'll give it a shot
[01:14] <Kamion> siretart: (syncs are of sources, not binaries)
[01:14] <siretart> gnarf. you are right
[01:14] <Kamion> Riddell: do you have access to rebuild the live filesystems?
[01:15] <Riddell> Kamion: ah no, that's not done automatically overnight?
[01:16] <Kamion> Riddell: yes, but it hasn't been done since I NEWed the current batch of kernels
[01:16] <Kamion> I'll kick off a rebuild now
[01:16] <Riddell> ok, thanks
[01:19] <siretart> I'd propose then to blacklist  kernel-patch-* kernel-source-2.4* kernel-image-*
[01:20] <seb128> jamesh: I've made the change yesterday and not triaged bugs on malone since but it should be fine, I'll let you know soon
[01:29] <ogra_ibook> hmph ... looks like ubuntu-users slowly becomes an advertizing platform for the automatix script ...
[01:30] <pitti> siretart: in fact we should BL kernel-source-* (our's is linux-source)
[01:35] <Mithrandir> pitti: isn't it a bit weird that locale-gen is not run when the locales package is installed, as well as locale-gen $LANG not regenerating?
[01:36] <pitti> Mithrandir: I can change that if necessary
[01:36] <Mithrandir> pitti: it just feels wonky.
[01:36] <pitti> Mithrandir: the latter is for avoiding regeneration if you specify a complete  language
[01:36] <pitti> Mithrandir: i. e. if you install a language pack, you don't want to regenerate all locales if you already have them
[01:36] <Mithrandir> sure, but it should still generate that locale.
[01:37] <Mithrandir> if you do locale-gen nb_NO.UTF-8 and already have that made, it doesn't do anything.
[01:37] <pitti> Mithrandir: if it doesn't exist, 'locale-gen $locale' should work; doesn't it?
[01:37] <pitti> right
[01:37] <pitti> ok, I'll think about the second case
[01:37] <pitti> what should locale's postinst do?
[01:37] <Mithrandir> regenerate all locales, I'd guess.
[01:37] <pitti> every time?
[01:37] <Mithrandir> since the definitions might have changed.
[01:37] <Mithrandir> yes.
[01:38] <pitti> hrmkay
[01:38] <Mithrandir> I was bitten by this so my week began on sunday since this was how it was set up in breezy, and the locale was never regenerated.
[01:38] <pitti> Mithrandir: do you want to file a bug? or shall I just add it to my todo list? I'm a bit busy with debugging ATM
[01:38] <Mithrandir> pitti: if you're fine with the changes, I can just fix them and upload. :-)
[01:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, sure, go ahear
[01:39] <pitti> ahead, even
[01:57] <janimo> smurf, libgnutls11-dev does not have a .pc file. the newer 12 does, but the former is depended on by most ubuntu packages
[01:58] <pitti> I think that's on purpose
[01:58] <pitti> janimo: all new builds shuold use the latest one
[01:59] <janimo> pitti, looking at rdepends for both packages shows 11 is used a lot more
[02:00] <pitti> yes, it's a transition we still have to do
[02:00] <janimo> in dapper?
[02:00] <janimo> should MOTU be notified?
[02:00] <pitti> yes, preferably for dapper
[02:00] <pitti> for the sake of ReducingDuplication
[02:01] <gouchi> Hi
[02:01] <janimo> oh is it already in the reducingdups spec?
[02:01] <pitti> I think so
[02:01] <janimo> ok thanks
[02:01] <gouchi> no update for #17871 that means I can't boot to kubuntu liveCD :(
[02:01] <pitti> janimo: hmm, 102 packages against 11, 76 against 12
[02:02] <gouchi> #1787 ide=nodma didn't work
[02:02] <Kamion> gouchi: the bug log says it's fixed in dapper and won't be fixed in breezy
[02:02] <Kamion> gouchi: does the dapper live CD not work for you?
[02:03] <gouchi> Kamion : didn't test  I have to dl Dapper :)
[02:03] <gouchi> Kamion : I will report if there is a problem
[02:15] <Riddell> seb128: can I update libmeanwhile0 to libmeanwhile1 and gaim-meanwhile to latest version?  kopete-meanwhile needs the newer version of the library
[02:16] <seb128> Riddell: no objection from me, they are universe stuff that's motu land :)
[02:17] <Kamion> jdub: is ubuntu-bugs@ set up to accept bugs from Malone?
[02:17] <Riddell> I'll just have to make sure dholbach doesn't notice then :)
[02:17] <seb128> he he
[02:17] <ajmitch> Riddell: you break it, you keep it. those are the MOTU rules :)
[02:18] <infinity> pitti / janimo : I suspect a lot of mass-rebuild transitions will happen after UVF, since we'll stop focusing on new upstreams and start focusing on minimizing version bloat. :)
[02:18] <infinity> Speaking of....
[02:18] <dholbach> Riddell: have fun, update it :)
[02:18] <infinity> doko: What's the current roadmap for punting python2.3 to universe?
[02:20] <pitti> doko_: <infinity> doko: What's the current roadmap for punting python2.3 to universe?
[02:24] <ogra_ibook> ARGH
[02:24] <ogra_ibook> who broke kig ?
[02:25] <Riddell> wasnae me
[02:25] <infinity> Oo, oo, blame me!
[02:25] <ogra_ibook> hmm
[02:27] <doko_> pitti: getting python-all-dev and python-central/python-support into the distribution and then reuploading packages
[02:28] <siretart> doko_: any reason to not sync the libpng package from unstable? pbuikder/piuparts on amd64 is fine for me
[02:28] <ogra_ibook> infinity, you removed libboost-python1.33.0c2a ?
[02:29] <infinity> No, I just like taking blame.
[02:29] <siretart> doko_: I ask because in debian libpng has been updated and libpng3 has been removed. I think we should avoid unnecessary divergence
[02:29] <ogra_ibook> heh
[02:31] <doko_> siretart: IIRC, that was just diverged because the package was miscompiled
[02:31] <freeflying> doko_: hi
[02:32] <siretart> doko_: you stated in the changelog that it was ok to sync it next time
[02:32] <freeflying> doko_: OOo in dapper keer crashing when input chinese or paste any cinese in it
[02:33] <fabbione> Kamion: can you please NEW the sparc kernel
[02:33] <fabbione> ?
[02:33] <doko_> freeflying: how do I input chinese from a US keyboard?
[02:34] <infinity> siretart: Yes, we do want the new libpng as part of ReducingDuplication, as well as ReducingHeadaches.
[02:34] <freeflying> doko_: you can try open a chinese font with zh_CN locales
[02:34] <infinity> siretart: I was going to give it a sanity check first thing Monday.
[02:34] <freeflying> doko_: s/font/file
[02:34] <siretart> infinity: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=338016 is the relevant request for removal from debian
[02:35] <dexem> How can I know what is doing my boot sequence? I can't show the usplash I need for my live CD distro, and I don't know if it's my fault... or the png fault... or...
[02:35] <siretart> infinity: ok. so you are aware of it. great!
[02:36] <freeflying> doko_: you'd have a try under zh_CN locales ., it will not crash under en_US locales
[02:36] <ogra_ibook> elmo, around ?
[02:36] <doko_> freeflying: ok, please could you add this information the appropriate bug report?
[02:37] <infinity> dexem: Are you turning that PNG into a bogl image with pngtobogl, before you install it to /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-artwork.so?
[02:37] <freeflying> doko_: I've filed bugs on launchpad , and alse sent it you a mail about this
[02:37] <dexem> infinity: yup, and I've rebuild my initramfs
[02:38] <infinity> dexem: If you're unsure that you're doing it right, test usplash at a console by hand, don't test it from the initramfs, that's just a pain. :)
[02:38] <dexem> infinity: can that be done? I didn't know that...
[02:38] <ogra_ibook> Kamion, coud you unleash the libboost stuff from new ? seems it changed its name and dropped the c2a
[02:38] <dexem> infinity: yes, I was getting crazy
[02:38] <infinity> dexem: Just call "usplash" from a console as root.
[02:39] <infinity> dexem: Odds are it throws an assertion failure at you due to the image being the wrong size or something.
[02:39] <infinity> dexem: (If you're using our vga16fb patch, the default console is only 640x400, your image can't be bigger...)
[02:40] <infinity> dexem: (You'll have to wait for it to time out.. It's not smart enough to return immediately if it can't load the image... Which I really should fix..)
[02:41] <Kamion> fabbione: done
[02:41] <Kamion> ogra_ibook: no, NEW's empty
[02:41] <ogra_ibook> hmm, thats strange
[02:41] <ogra_ibook> according to the buildlogs it has build
[02:41] <Kamion> and libboost binaries are in sync with source
[02:42] <ogra_ibook> i dont see them in the archive ...
[02:42] <Kamion> maybe you could tell me which binary out of the several dozen you're actually looking for rather than making me guess?
[02:42] <infinity> Probbaly went to universe instead of main?
[02:43] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks
[02:43] <Kamion> I've promoted libboost-python1.33.1 to main, since that was the only one anastacia mentioned
[02:43] <ogra_ibook> Kamion, ah, its gone to universe
[02:44] <ogra_ibook> Kamion, yup, thats the missing one
[02:44] <ogra_ibook> Kamion, thanks a lot
[02:45] <dexem> infinity: how long should I wait for the timeout?
[02:45] <doko_> freeflying: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org2/+bugs doesn't show any scim related reports
[02:46] <infinity> dexem: ~15 seconds..
[02:46] <infinity> dexem: Or change to another VC...
[02:46] <winkle> any eta for flight3 images?
[02:46] <infinity> dexem: Switch to X and back if you're not getting your console back at all.
[02:46] <jamesh> we are about 45% of the way through the migration
[02:46] <dexem> infinity: then... something strange happens :S It doesn't show anything, I can switch to X again, yes, but I don't know what's happening
[02:47] <infinity> dexem: And if you switch back to the console you ran usplash from.. You have a prompt again?.. And no errors?
[02:48] <Riddell> ogra_ibook: what's up with it?
[02:48] <dexem> infinity: the prompt line overwrites the output message
[02:48] <ogra_ibook> Riddell, the c2a was dropped from the libboost binarys
[02:48] <ogra_ibook> Riddell, so i have to doa dependency rebuild ...
[02:48] <infinity> dexem: So there was some sort of output, then?
[02:49] <dexem> infinity: seems so
[02:51] <freeflying> doko_: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org2/+bug/5981
[02:51] <infinity> dexem: Can you decipher any of it? :)
[02:51] <freeflying> it dosen't care about scim
[02:52] <Kamion> winkle: no
[02:52] <Kamion> winkle: (the more people ask, the later it'll be :-))
[02:52] <dexem> infinity: I just can see it ends with "to". Can the output be redirected to a file?
[02:52] <winkle> hehe, better shut up then ;)
[03:05] <dexem> infinity: is there a size limit for the .so image?
[03:06] <highvoltage> .so or .iso?
[03:06] <infinity> dexem: File size, or image size?
[03:06] <dexem> highvoltage: .so   I'm asking about usplash
[03:06] <infinity> dexem: The image needs to be 640x400, 16-color, indexed.
[03:06] <infinity> dexem: File size is pretty much determined by that (it's hard to have a big one that fits that description)
[03:07] <dexem> infinity: uhmmm maybe is that the problem... I'll try with 400 for height (it was 480, but I thought I tried one with 480 and worked...)
[03:08] <infinity> dexem: Our default vga16fb console is 640x400.  If you're using vesafb or a custom kernel with a different framebuffer, that limit doesn't necessarily apply.
[03:08] <infinity> dexem: Usplash just checks to see if the image will fit in the current FB, if it won't, it bails out.
[03:09] <dexem> infinity: ok, probably it's vga16fb because I haven't selected anything different than default
[03:09] <freeflying_> doko_: would you mind have a try
[03:11] <sladen> dexem: previous we were setting the video mode to 640x480, but that causes issues
[03:20] <dexem> infinity, sladen: thanks :D I have to rebuild correctly my ISO, but usplash loads the image from console
[03:21] <infinity> dexem: Excellent.
[03:21] <infinity> dexem: Sorry about the crap error reporting.  usplash has a fair way to go to be "friendly".
[03:21] <ogra_ibook> sigh, yes... usplash ... i still have to fix the puched edubuntu image ...
[03:21] <dexem> If you don't mind, I'm going to change the wiki. It says 640x480 ;)
[03:22] <infinity> dexem: Please do.  I didn't know there was a wiki page.
[03:22] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Hey, at least the edubuntu image WORKS.  It's just ugly. :)
[03:22] <ogra_ibook> infinity, exactly ...
[03:22] <infinity> ogra_ibook: AndyFitz was working on several designs for replacement for {edu,ku,u}buntu usplash images.
[03:23] <ogra_ibook> infinity, and the color for the text is wrong since breeky, the "ok" is way to dark
[03:23] <infinity> ogra_ibook: "ok" should be the same colour as the text itself...
[03:23] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Though I've never booted with the edubuntu image, so I don't know what it looks like in action.
[03:23] <ogra_ibook> infinity, oops, i hope he doesnt clash with the company that is supposed to do the designs
[03:24] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Oh, we've contracted this out already?  Or just for edubuntu?
[03:24] <dexem> infinity: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/USplashCustomizationHowto  <--- check it for possible errors if you have time, please. I haven't written it but is good to have correct and updated info :D
[03:24] <ogra_ibook> infinity, the image is fine, but the test and progress bar are to dark
[03:24] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Yeah, that's easy to fix.  Just replace the one colour in the palette index that is the text colour. :)
[03:24] <ogra_ibook> infinity, i was told we'll have a company for the three default designs ... but i have no further info
[03:25] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Curious.  First I've heard of it.  <shrug>
[03:25] <neuralis_> infinity: has someone given thought to having the numerical *buntu version in the usplash image?
[03:25] <ogra_ibook> infinity, its indexed ... if i replace this color, the logo breaks :)
[03:25] <infinity> neuralis_: I thought about it, yes.
[03:26] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Oh, you're reusing an image colour for the text?
[03:26] <neuralis_> infinity: what were the cons?
[03:26] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Guess you need to reorder your palette, then. ;)
[03:26] <ogra_ibook> infinity, isnt that done by default ?
[03:26] <infinity> neuralis_: None, really, just haven't done it.
[03:27] <infinity> ogra_ibook: No, with an indexed palette, the palette stays in a specific order.  You can reorder it in the GIMP and re-save it.
[03:27] <infinity> ogra_ibook: The HOWTO page just pointed out to me tells you which palette locations are "magic" (ie: reused)
[03:27] <neuralis_> infinity: cool. you want a wishlist bug or somesuch filed to remind you, or do you have it in some todo list already?
[03:27] <ogra_ibook> infinity, i mean that a certain color is picked from images the palette
[03:28] <ogra_ibook> if i reorder it, that also changes the image colors
[03:28] <ogra_ibook> yes, i saw that page
[03:28] <infinity> Erm.  Let me fire up the edubuntu logo and look at this. :)
[03:29] <ogra_ibook> infinity, i think there is no big poinnt in editing it now, if we get new images anyway
[03:29] <ogra_ibook> i just will crop the breezy image instead of scaling it to make it not look punched
[03:29] <infinity> ogra_ibook: No, I suppose not, but if you just want the colors fixed for your text, that's simple enough.
[03:29] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Err.. "punched"?
[03:30] <infinity> ogra_ibook: If you crop it, it'll be stretched out on 640x400.
[03:30] <ogra_ibook> yes, it looks like you hit it with a sledgehammer on the top :)
[03:30] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Think about it.  The aspect ration didn't change, but the image height did.
[03:30] <infinity> ogra_ibook: You're using vesafb, aren't you? :)
[03:30] <ogra_ibook> sure
[03:30] <infinity> s/ration/ratio/
[03:31] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Yes.  Boot without "vga=" intead (which is our default)
[03:31] <infinity> Fixing things for 4x3 video modes is on my TODO for later.
[03:31] <ogra_ibook> if i cut off 80 pixels of the height from the breezy pic instead of scaling the height it will be fine
[03:31] <infinity> Not on vga16fb, it won't.
[03:31] <ogra_ibook> huh  ?
[03:32] <infinity> vga16fb is 640x400.  not 480.  400.
[03:32] <infinity> That's not 4x3.
[03:32] <infinity> Not the same aspect ratio as your vesafb console.
[03:32] <infinity> What looks "square" in one is a rectangle in the other.
[03:32] <ogra_ibook> i know about ratios ...
[03:33] <ogra_ibook> what i need is an image that doesnt look squeezed
[03:33] <OpsVentus> Hello all,  question: is there a plan for a 'Airplane mode' for ubuntu?
[03:33] <mdke> Znarl, elmo, would really really appreciate rt #1610 getting done, if you possibly can
[03:33] <Kamion> the aspect ratios of 640x400 and your vesafb console are different. it is not possible to produce a single image that works with both.
[03:33] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: You need different images for the two. You can't just chop 80 pixels off the bottom.
[03:33] <mjg59> Otherwise the vga16fb one will look stretched compared to the vesafb one
[03:33] <infinity> ogra_ibook: The one you have doesn't look "squeezed" on vga16fb.  We'll later deal with having two images for the two ratios, but for now, I'd rather have one that displays correctly on our default mode, not on your video mode.
[03:33] <ogra_ibook> hey, it looks like arse in a fresh install, i just want to crop instead of scale it
[03:34] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: It's *not scaled*
[03:34] <ogra_ibook> it *looks* scaled
[03:34] <mjg59> The problem now is that the old picture has been cropped
[03:34] <neuralis_> OpsVentus: airplane mode?
[03:34] <mjg59> It needs new artwork
[03:35] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: There's no scaling code in usplash
[03:35] <infinity> mjg59: No, it is scaled.  I scaled it to be the right aspect ratio on 640x400.
[03:35] <infinity> mjg59: It's not pretty, but at least it's the right ratio.  (except on his vesa console)
[03:35] <mjg59> infinity: I meant when usplash loads it
[03:35] <infinity> Oh, yes.  Not scaled then, obviously.
[03:35] <ogra_ibook> the old pic was 640x480, the content will look identical if i dont scale the height but cut off 80px in height to make it 640x400
[03:35] <OpsVentus> neuralis:so you're shure when turning on you're laptop in an airplane, wifi and bluetooth ar turned off
[03:36] <ogra_ibook> since there is no scaling code in usplash
[03:36] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: No it won't
[03:36] <doko_> freeflying: thanks, I was blind. will do later
[03:36] <infinity> ogra_ibook: No.  It.  Won't.   It'll look stretched vertically.
[03:36] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Your monitor doesn't change shape depending on what video mode I choose.
[03:36] <ogra_ibook> i cant belive that
[03:36] <jamesh> infinity: maybe your monitor doesn't
[03:37] <neuralis_> OpsVentus: there are no plans for it, and a number of newer laptops contain a hardware switch for that functionality, so implementing it in software is impossible.
[03:37] <ogra_ibook> why should it look streched vertically ?
[03:37] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: Nngh.
[03:37] <ogra_ibook> it has a fixed size value
[03:37] <infinity> ogra_ibook: But not a fixed aspect ratio.
[03:37] <jamesh> ogra_ibook: think non-square pixels
[03:37] <ogra_ibook> if i change the size but not the content, it simply *cant* look streched
[03:37] <OpsVentus> I see
[03:38] <ogra_ibook> hmm
[03:38] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Draw two identical squares.  Fille one with 4 horizontal lines.  Fill the other with 3 horizontal lines.  Note that one has bigger "scan lines" than the other.
[03:38] <jamesh> ogra_ibook: if your pixels are 1mm by 2mm, then an image that doesn'
[03:38] <jamesh> t look stretched with square pixels will look stretched
[03:38] <ogra_ibook> jamesh, ahhh, now i understand
[03:38] <jamesh> (that's an exageration)
[03:38] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: You take a picture. It's 640x480 at a 4:3 aspect ration. You chop off 80 pixels from the bottom, you no longer have a 4:3 picture. You now display that non 4:3 picture on a 4:3 screen
[03:38] <mjg59> The result is that it's stretched
[03:39] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: vga16fb's 640x400 mode fills the entire screen. It's a non 4:3 mode displayed at 4:3, and the picture needs to take that into account or it'll be distorted.
[03:39] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: Simply chopping 80 pixels off the bottom of a 640x480 image doesn't take that into account, so it'll be distorted
[03:40] <ogra_ibook> mjg59, yup, jamesh seems to have a talent to explain stuff to idiots ;) understood now :)
[03:40] <OpsVentus> neuralis:  how dificult is it to add a boot option in grub which disables wifi/bluetooth?
[03:42] <infinity> OpsVentus: "airplane mode"?
[03:42] <mjg59> Not difficult
[03:42] <OpsVentus> infinity: boot option which disables wifi and bluetooth
[03:42] <mjg59> As long as you're happy to lose ethernet as well
[03:42] <infinity> Last time I booted on a plane and wasn't sure if the wireless was off, I just disabled it in the BIOS before I booted. :)
[03:43] <OpsVentus> that's an option, but for the users who don't like to go to BIOS
[03:43] <OpsVentus> and if it's posible in GRUB, it's much easier
[03:44] <infinity> Oh, I agree.
[03:45] <neuralis_> mjg59: yes, but are you able to kill the wifi radio from grub as well, even on laptops that have a hardware switch for it? i didn't think it was possible.
[03:45] <OpsVentus> example: boot in plane(whitout wifi), boot on connecting airport(downloading new email), boot in connecting plane(whitout wifi)
[03:45] <OpsVentus> If the laptop has a hardware switch you don't need it
[03:46] <OpsVentus> but my laptop(for example)(Acer travelmate) dosn't have a hardware switch
[03:47] <mjg59> neuralis_: Not from grub, no. But it's trivial to ensure that we don't load networking modules.
[03:47] <mjg59> Which can be done by passing an option from grub
[03:47] <neuralis_> mjg59: clearly, but i don't know how much that does to prevent the radio from emitting anything at all, which is what an "airplane mode" would have to do.
[03:48] <mjg59> neuralis_: If nothing ever loads, nothing ever enables the radio
[03:49] <OpsVentus> is that sure?
[03:50] <LaserJock> so the new intel iMacs can't run Ubuntu out of the box because of EFI, am I reading -devel right?
[03:50] <OpsVentus> dosn't a wireless network card try's to search for networks automaticly
[03:51] <infinity> OpsVentus: Not without a driver telling it to.
[03:51] <mjg59> LaserJock: That depends on whether they've implemented BIOS compatibility code
[03:51] <mjg59> Even if they have, you're not going to get X
[03:51] <infinity> OpsVentus: I've never seen wireless tftp booting.
[03:51] <infinity> (though that would be handy)
[03:51] <OpsVentus> and what about bluetooth?
[03:51] <mjg59> OpsVentus: Ditto
[03:52] <mjg59> (I believe)
[03:52] <OpsVentus> so somehow we need to diable the drivers
[03:52] <LaserJock> mjg59: ah, I will have one as soon as it get's shipped so I was wondering if there was any testing that I could do to help
[03:52] <OpsVentus> if we only disable then at boot they can be activated later on
[03:52] <ogra_ibook> infinity, jbailey was thinking about making wlan netbooting possible
[03:53] <infinity> ogra_ibook: Yes, but that would still require a local disk and an initramfs.
[03:53] <ogra_ibook> yup
[03:53] <mjg59> OpsVentus: That's easy enough - just blacklist the bluetooth drivers and anything that would bind to a PCI device with a class of 200 or 280
[03:53] <neuralis_> mjg59: i'm trying to recall the specific laptops, but in the process of some previous research, i definitely had at least a few send out a couple of quick radio bursts as soon as you hit the wifi enable switch
[03:53] <ogra_ibook> infinity, but you could put that on a usbstick and boot ltsp thin clients from it, which would rock
[03:53] <mjg59> neuralis_: If the driver is loaded, that's what you'd expect
[03:54] <OpsVentus> so is there anyone that can do this, I don't know to much about this
[03:55] <neuralis_> mjg59: this was pointedly without any drivers loaded. i ignored it at the time as it wasn't pertinent to what i was doing, but i'll see if i can find which chipsets these were.
[03:55] <Kamion> OpsVentus: only being able to do that at boot kinda sucks, though. When I'm travelling, I only suspend my laptop whenever possible rather than turning it off entirely.
[03:56] <infinity> Yeah, disabling on resume would be handier.
[03:56] <infinity> I pulled a battery from a suspended laptop to work around that one once.
[03:56] <OpsVentus> do's the airlines like suspended laptop's during landing/taking off, they always tell you to turn all electronics off
[03:56] <infinity> (One that didn't have wireless disable in the BIOS, IIRC... Or I wasn't thinking clearly.. Pick one)
[03:56] <Kinnison> OpsVentus: Well, mine tends to travel with me suspended
[03:57] <infinity> OpsVentus: Suspended may as well be off, like they notice or care...
[03:57] <OpsVentus> Me for one, always trys to follow the rules(maybe I'm nuts or something)
[03:58] <OpsVentus> But I have to go now, is this something to make a wiki about or something?
[04:01] <Kamion> Riddell: you have reasonably up-to-date Kubuntu install/live CD builds; fancy starting a test run?
[04:01] <Riddell> Kamion: just burning now
[04:01] <Kamion> ta
[04:02] <Kamion> edubuntu images building
[04:02] <ogra_ibook> Kamion, wont work
[04:02] <ogra_ibook> Kamion, kig still needs a rebuild ... kdeedu is building here since 20 min
[04:02] <Kamion> ogra_ibook: why not?
[04:02] <Kamion> oh
[04:03] <Kamion> ok, cancelled
[04:03] <ogra_ibook> it should work with just re-uploading it, but i dont like it without a test build
[04:03] <Kamion> Ubuntu CDs all built if anyone wants to help me test
[04:03] <Riddell> Kamion: aiming for flight today I presume?
[04:03] <Kamion> Riddell: hope so, we'll see
[04:04] <Kamion> might wind up actually releasing it tomorrow morning or something
[04:04] <\sh> any messages about bugzilla -> LP migration?
[04:04] <Kamion> it's in progress, but fell over on one of the bug aliases apparently
[04:04] <dholbach> \sh: an hour ago they were half way through
[04:05] <dholbach> go launchpadders go! :-)
[04:05] <ogra_ibook> oh, my email won in the duch email lottery :)
[04:05] <dholbach> ogra_ibook: mine too
[04:05] <ogra_ibook> i wonder why i never win in a german email lottery
[04:05] <\sh> dholbach: ah..because i didn't read any "we beginning now" mail :)
[04:06] <dholbach> \sh: they said they'd start at 12:00 UTC
[04:06] <dholbach> \sh: and it was in a mail to u-d-a too iirc
[04:08] <Diziet> Grrr.  I hate Python.   dict.has_key['thing']   but  hasattr(obj,'thing')
[04:08] <Diziet> Anyone would think we hadn't learned anything from the standard C library.
[04:08] <neuralis_> Diziet: actually, "key in dict"
[04:09] <neuralis_> Diziet: in works for all iterables.
[04:09] <\sh> dholbach: in the announcement yes...but i thought they wanted to give the start mail today
[04:09] <\sh> dholbach: anyways..pressing thumbs, that everything goes well
[04:11] <Diziet> So   hasattr(obj,'thing')  vs  'thing' in dict   ?  That's even less consistent.
[04:11] <neuralis_> Diziet: it's not. i think you don't have a good enough understanding of the object model.
[04:12] <Robot101> Diziet: 'thing' in obj.__dict__? :)
[04:12] <Kamion> AttributeError: 'pwd.struct_passwd' object has no attribute '__dict__'
[04:13] <Kamion> you don't get __dict__ in all objects
[04:13] <Diziet> neuralis_: No, my _understanding_ is fine.  It's my _temper_ that it has broken ...
[04:13] <neuralis_> Kamion: you get __dict__ in all instances of user-defined classes.
[04:13] <Kamion> though "'thing' in dir(obj)" works
[04:14] <Diziet> 'thing' in dir(obj)  is probably O(n).
[04:14] <Kamion> probably O(n log n) actually given that dir() is sorted
[04:15] <Kamion> unless dicts maintain a sorted list of their keys behind the scenes
[04:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: if you need more than n to search through a list, you're doing something very silly. :-)
[04:17] <neuralis_> Kamion: they don't
[04:17] <Kamion> Mithrandir: dir() needs to sort the keys of obj.__dict__ (or equivalent) before giving them back to you.
[04:17] <jdub> Kamion: don't believe so (ubuntu-bugs) -> what do i need to do?
[04:17] <Kamion> it's not the 'in' bit that's O(n log n) ...
[04:17] <Kamion> jdub: I think either kiko or seb128 has the recipe
[04:17] <Mithrandir> Kamion: oh, true.  Well, dir() shouldn't, then.
[04:18] <Kamion> heh, all my machines are now offering me Broadcom wireless interfaces on install
[04:19] <Kamion> I didn't even know that one of them *had* built-in wireless
[04:22] <pitti> Kamion: the airport express?
[04:22] <Nafallo> hehe, sweet :-)
[04:23] <Kamion> pitti: haven't tried the powerbook yet
[04:35] <\sh> hmmm....errors while dist-upgrading
[04:35] <pitti> elmo: please sync libapache2-mod-auth-pgsql and pmount from sid, and sysfsutils from experimental
[04:36] <\sh> cupsys-driver-gimpprint depends on cupsys-driver-gutenprint which is not configured yet...well this is during configure state of cupsys-driver-gutenprint
[04:37] <\sh> looks like a circular dependency
[04:37] <ogra_ibook> isnt -gimpptrint gone ?
[04:37] <\sh> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of cupsys-driver-gimpprint:
[04:37] <\sh>  cupsys-driver-gimpprint depends on cupsys-driver-gutenprint (>= 4.3.99+cvs20051122.dfsg.1-2); however:
[04:37] <\sh>   Package cupsys-driver-gutenprint is not configured yet.
[04:37] <\sh> dpkg: error processing cupsys-driver-gimpprint (--configure):
[04:38] <\sh> with latest update from the archives...it doesn't look like that :)
[04:39] <ogra_ibook> there should be no cupsys-driver-gimpprint package anymore, its replaced by cupsys-driver-gutenprint
[04:39] <pitti> yes, but you need the transitional packages for upgrades
[04:39] <\sh> ogra_ibook: yes...and this error occurs while setting up driver-gutenprint :)
[04:40] <Kamion> ogra_ibook: it's a dummy package
[04:40] <ogra_ibook> yes
[04:40] <Kamion> I really wish you'd check the archive first
[04:40] <ogra_ibook> sorry
[04:40] <Kamion> \sh: -gutenprint doesn't depend on -gimp-print though
[04:41] <pitti> no, it shouldn't
[04:41] <pitti> (just the other way round)
[04:42] <\sh> well..we have then a problem
[04:42] <\sh> dpkg: error processing cupsys-driver-gutenprint (--configure):
[04:42] <\sh>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 3
[04:42] <\sh> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of cupsys-driver-gimpprint:
[04:42] <pitti> \sh: can you add a set -x to /var/lib/dpkg/info/cupsys-driver-gutenprint.postinst and check where it fails?
[04:42] <Kamion> so -gutenprint fails to configure for some largely-unspecified reason (exit status 3) and -gimpprint therefore fails to configure too because it depends on it
[04:43] <Kamion> that's not a circular dependency, it's just a dependency
[04:43] <\sh> Kamion: yes...right..used the wrong term
[04:43] <\sh> pitti: 10secs :)
[04:44] <\sh> bah
[04:45] <\sh> after having it now 10 times...but setting now -x solves the problem? i'm hallucinating
[04:46] <mako> mdke: yes! there is a script that makes this very easy now
[04:46] <\sh> sorry to say, it's just gone..which is somehow strange..because since just now I could reproduce it every time
[04:47] <pitti> \sh: -x means 'fix it', you know? :)
[04:48] <\sh> pitti: if it would be so easy to set -x ... I would mass close all bugs with "set -x" ;)
[04:48] <\sh> but wait...let me try it again with the laptop here
[04:49] <\sh> hope it was something after this early morning when my last dist-upgrade happened
[04:50] <pitti> Keybuk: the other day you mentioned you were interested in bugs caused by existing .la files? wanna take a look at Debian #347901?
[04:51] <Keybuk> pitti: not right now
[04:52] <pitti> 'k (I'm just removing it from libsysfs-dev, as proposed)
[04:54] <\sh> jamesh: i never subscribed to this bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/23949 :)
[04:56] <jamesh> \sh: you are CC'd to https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com//show_bug.cgi?id=17792, which it is an import of.
[04:56] <\sh> but why?
[04:57] <jamesh> what do you mean by why?
[04:57] <jamesh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com//show_activity.cgi?id=17792 <- that's you subscribing yourself to the bug in bugzilla
[04:57] <\sh> jamesh: I don't remember this bug...and why I should have added my email address to it...
[04:58] <jamesh> \sh: I don't know why you would have done that.
[04:58] <\sh> jamesh: I see my email address yes, but I don't remember to add it there ...but regarding the data in bugzilla, it was no mistake in the migration...
[04:58] <ogra_ibook> \sh, see who's the original reporter ;)
[04:59] <jamesh> the bugzilla activity log clearly states that the account<EMAIL_ADDRESS>added<EMAIL_ADDRESS>as the contact
[04:59] <\sh> ogra_ibook: bah...this guy..now I know
[04:59] <ogra_ibook> hehe
[04:59] <\sh> he added me there
[04:59] <ogra_ibook> yup, thats what i suspected :)
[05:00] <\sh> I'll kill him later :)
[05:00] <jamesh> \sh: other people using your bugzilla account?
[05:00] <\sh> jamesh: known people adding my email address to a bugzilla bug yes...happens sometimes when this very special guy was a colleague of mine :)
[05:00] <spacey_ki> i also got launchpad mail a whle back for a bug i never subscribed to
[05:01] <jamesh> \sh: the activity log says you added yourself, rather than someone else adding you thouhg.
[05:01] <jamesh> (you or someone using your account)
[05:02] <\sh> jamesh: this is more strange..because I know I never added myself to this bug..or he was sitting at this time at my place and was using my laptop when bugzilla was open...what time was it?
[05:02] <jamesh> 2005-11-24 13:04 UTC
[05:03] <spacey_ki> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/installation-guide/+bug/4637
[05:03] <\sh> during work hours
[05:03] <spacey_ki> i got an launchpad mail for that one
[05:03] <spacey_ki> but i'm not subscribed
[05:03] <spacey_ki> and never seen it
[05:03] <\sh> a thursday..
[05:03] <\sh> I'll have a shower now, and go and kill him...
[05:04] <ogra_ibook> \sh, send my greetings before :)
[05:04] <spacey_ki> i'll bother #launchpad with that
[05:05] <LaserJock> \sh: you might want to shower after... ;-)
[05:05] <\sh> oh..I can't kill him... I have to wait until I meet him for a drink..I'm not allowed anymore to put one foot into the holy halls of ISH
[05:06] <jamesh> Kamion: by the way, you can target an existing bug task at a different source package, rather than rejecting the old one and creating a new one
[05:09] <\sh> ogra_ibook: did you know? http://kapsi.fi/~tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kedubuntu-1d.png
[05:09] <Riddell> Kamion: kubuntu CDs good on i386, I'll try the other arches
[05:11] <ogra_ibook> \sh, :(
[05:11] <ogra_ibook> \sh, why dont they contact the rest of the edubuntu community about that ?
[05:11] <\sh> ogra_ibook: there are other things in temp/
[05:12] <ogra_ibook> yes, i looked already
[05:12] <\sh> ogra_ibook: just grabbed the url from kubuntu-devel...so I was surprised as well
[05:13] <ogra_ibook> i would find it odd if they'd not work with the rest of the edubuntu community
[05:13] <mdke> mako, thanks
[05:15] <Kamion> jamesh: sure - did I do the latter at some point?
[05:16] <jamesh> Kamion: I misread the activity log on the bug.  It was dholbach who made that change
[05:27] <Riddell> ogra_ibook: it's just a random bit of artwork, not the start of a kedubuntu distro
[05:29] <ogra_ibook> Riddell, ah, i thought it was the long discussed start of kedubuntu
[05:30] <ogra_ibook> Riddell, i'd be happy about it, i just wouldnt like to have two distinct communitys, there is too much overlap
[05:33] <Kamion> so, anything people particularly want to have in the Flight 3 release notes?
[05:34] <Mithrandir> Kamion: shinier live cd, I'd love to get more testing of that
[05:34] <Kamion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight3 is shaping up nicely
[05:35] <Keybuk> Kamion: make sure you note that sound card mixer setting restoration is erratic; and that a bad shout-down can result in network cards not getting plugged ever again
[05:35] <Keybuk> uh, shut-down <g>
[05:36] <Keybuk> might be worth adding the new "Restart Required" bubble to it too
[05:36] <Keybuk> uh, where one goes on the negative bits, and the other on the cute bits
[05:37] <Keybuk> oh, someone added placeholders already
[05:37] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk: the bubble is "cute" ?
[05:38] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: well, I think the new bubbles are frakking ugly myself; but the premise is cute
[05:38] <HiddenWolf> hm.
[05:38] <HiddenWolf> :)
[05:38] <Keybuk> actually, looks like the screenshots are all done the same way, so I'll let someone else do that
[05:39] <HiddenWolf> They should be themeable at the very least. =)
[05:42] <ogra_ibook> doko, j2re in universe ??
[05:43] <Tm_T> ogra_ibook: ?
[05:45] <ogra_ibook> Tm_T, ?
[05:47] <Tm_T> ogra_ibook: that pic is meant to show ubuntu,edubuntu and kubuntu to be the same community ;)
[05:47] <Tm_T> nothing else
[05:47] <Tm_T> atleast I hope we are all same one big family
[05:47] <ogra_ibook> Tm_T, i thought it was the start of the kedubuntu distro
[05:47] <Tm_T> oh no
[05:47] <HiddenWolf> Oh please. :P
[05:48] <Tm_T> well, that's idea I like ;)
[05:48] <Tm_T> whoopsie
[05:48] <ogra_ibook> Tm_T, in which case i woud have liked that the edubuntu users get notified about.... there is some interest in a kde based version
[05:49] <Riddell> I've had people asking for one too
[05:49] <Tm_T> aye
[05:50] <Tm_T> ogra_ibook: you have seen KOffice peoples simple office mockups?
[05:51] <Tm_T> office for kids, I like :)
[05:51] <ogra_ibook> yup
[05:51] <ogra_ibook> seen that
[05:51] <ogra_ibook> edubuntu is not aimed at *kids* it shall be for all ages (even if breezy appears different through the artwok)
[05:52] <Tm_T> aye, I mean that could be part of kedubuntu some day
[05:52] <Tm_T> but that's future
[05:52] <ogra_ibook> sure, up to the kedubuntu devels :)
[05:52] <ogra_ibook> whoever that may be
[05:55] <tepsipakki> kamion: umm, pkgsel doesn't allow packages from universe?
[05:56] <Tm_T> ogra_ibook: but what you think as an idea, combining all three and that way show we are not three totally separate distributions (as too many thinks)
[05:56] <Tm_T> in artwork I mean
[05:56] <ogra_ibook> looks nice
[05:57] <jdub> Tm_T: but they *are* different distributions, sharing a common platform
[05:57] <Lathiat> mdz: ping
[05:58] <Lathiat> mdz: whats this about discussing zeroconf in detail with you?
[05:58] <Tm_T> jdub: yes, but people thinks they don't share a thing, but truth is it doesn't matter what you use, they work together and mixed and just as you like :)
[05:58] <tepsipakki> kamion: nevermind, I'll file a bug
[05:58] <Keybuk> Lathiat: you could discuss it with my bat, if you like <g>
[05:58] <Keybuk> assuming you mean "zeroconf" and not "avahi and friends" :)
[05:59] <Lathiat> see
[05:59] <Lathiat> "zeroconf" is a group of things
[05:59] <Lathiat> not just the program
[05:59] <Lathiat> that a few people dislike ;p
[05:59] <jdub> Keybuk: the newer versions of zeroconf are not broken (and if we don't ship n-m, we should ship zeroconf)
[05:59] <Lathiat> network manager seems to be doing LL ips now so
[05:59] <Lathiat> jdub: you sure? i didnt notice an update
[05:59] <Keybuk> jdub: dude, zeroconf stops ifup from working!  so we shouldn't ship it even then
[05:59] <jdub> it was already fixed in unstable while we were in montreal
[05:59] <jamesh> jdub: have you seen the "logins disabled" page on bugzilla.ubuntu.com?
[06:00] <jdub> jamesh: no
[06:00] <Lathiat> ah cool
[06:00] <jdub> jamesh: i don't have any access to change bz
[06:00] <jamesh> jdub: try logging in :)
[06:00] <jdub> despite being listed as an admin...
[06:00] <jamesh> jdub: just seemed amusing :)
[06:00] <jamesh>  If you believe your account should be restored, please send email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>explaining why.
[06:01] <Keybuk> Lathiat: yeah, that's why it's sometimes easier just to refer to source package names <g>  then we know what we're talking about
[06:01] <Lathiat> ah
[06:01] <Lathiat> but in the dapper status pdfi
[06:01] <jdub> jamesh: uh huh. and they keep coming...
[06:01] <Lathiat> it literally says zeroconf
[06:01] <Lathiat> so i was asking what it said :)
[06:01] <Lathiat> because i dunno if he means in general, or the source package, or what
[06:01] <Lathiat> but the spec is called 'zeroconf' so its ambigious
[06:01] <Lathiat> :)
[06:01] <Keybuk> probably refers to the spec then
[06:02] <Lathiat> so i assume
[06:03] <Kamion> tepsipakki: did you preseed apt-setup/universe=true?
[06:05] <tepsipakki> kamion: yes
[06:05] <Kamion> no particular reason I can see in the code why it should ignore universe
[06:06] <tepsipakki> i have backports enabled as well, but of course it isn't found, could that matter?
[06:06] <ogra_ibook> ARGH !! dpkg-deb (subprocess): data: internal gzip error: read(4096) != write(0): No space left on device
[06:07] <Lathiat> hrm, packages.d.o is down :(
[06:08] <stratus> Lathiat, sure it's but you can retrieve some useful information through PTS, it depends what you need.
[06:08] <stratus> ogra_ibook, blame dpkg!
[06:08] <Lathiat> just wante dto know th eversion of rails in unstable
[06:08] <ogra_ibook> stratus, i blame KDE crazyness ... 35MB source packages are so mean
[06:09] <stratus> ogra_ibook, wow
[06:10] <doko> ogra_ibook: sorry, multiverse, could you correct me?
[06:10] <ogra_ibook> and i have 1G free in /var for the pbuilder ...
[06:10] <ogra_ibook> doko, will do :)
[06:11] <Kamion> tepsipakki: possibly, dunno, can't look at it now
[06:11] <tepsipakki> i'll try
[06:16] <Keybuk> we have an mhz now?!
[06:16] <ogra_ibook> Keybuk, since ages
[06:17] <ogra_ibook> Keybuk, you should come more often to #edubuntu, we have a lot of nice nicks there :)#
[06:18] <ogra_ibook> Keybuk, at least he has no d in the middle :)
[06:19] <Keybuk> ogra_ibook: there's an mhy on #debian-uk
[06:19] <ogra_ibook> hehe
[06:19] <Keybuk> which means there's now an mdz, mdy, mhy, mhz as well as a plain md to sort out
[06:19] <Keybuk> my poor brain
[06:19] <ogra_ibook> *giggle*
[06:20] <ogra_ibook> you should drop one or the other channel then
[06:21] <Keybuk> I'm only on one other apart from work ones
[06:21] <Keybuk> work and #debian-uk
[06:24] <ogra_ibook> heh
[06:24] <ogra_ibook> i have work and #ltsp :)
[06:24] <Mithrandir> I have ETOOMANYCHANNELS.
[06:25] <Keybuk> ye, but you're an IRC whore
[06:25] <Kamion> infinity: powerpc live CDs appear not to work on my powerbook; I get /lib/modules/2.6.12-powerpc64-smp instead of the correct -powerpc
[06:25] <Keybuk> could be worse, you could be one of the australians who seem to need to join any channel anyone could possibly talk about them on ;)
[06:25] <Kamion> infinity: install CDs work fine, so I don't think it's the bootloader
[06:26] <Kamion> infinity: any chance you/somebody could figure out whether cdimage or the buildd or casper or what is broken here? I have to leave in -25 minutes
[06:26] <Keybuk> Kamion: have a great weekend, btw!
[06:27] <Kamion> thanks
[06:27] <pitti> bye Kamion
[06:28] <Kamion> Ubuntu/{install,live}/{amd64,i386} are good to go for flight 3
[06:28] <Kamion> but I'll hold off until I get back
[06:28] <Kamion> install/powerpc is hopefully ok too, at least it boots properly
[06:29] <pitti> Kamion: shall I test the current daily on ppc?
[06:29] <Kamion> please do
[06:29] <Kamion> if you can figure out what's up with daily-live, that'd be good too; you have the hardware
[06:29] <pitti> I tested it three days ago, it worked fine, I'll do the current one now
[06:29] <pitti> ^ (install)
[06:30] <Kamion> infinity has access to change more or less everything that might conceivably need to be fixed
[06:30] <Keybuk> meh, if only my AMD64 wasn't in waiting-for-stock-hell this'd be the first CD I could test on all three architectures
[06:30] <psusi> WTF is wrong with gdb damnit?  it catches the sigsevg but the process terminates anyway before I can examine it... it's like it doesn't get all the threads stopped and oen of them exits the entire process out from under gdb
[06:31] <Kinnison> mmm debugging with threads
[06:31] <Kinnison> welcome to hell
[06:31] <psusi> hell is debugging with gdb it seems...
[06:31] <psusi> I have no problem debugging multithreaded apps under msvc for instance
[06:32] <mdke> mako, do I need to do anything to push it through, or do you do it all?
[06:32] <Keybuk> done?
[06:32] <mdz> Riddell: kthesaurus promoted
[06:32] <pitti> yay, malone finished?
[06:33] <jamesh> yeah.  Kiko will send out an announcement soon
[06:35] <Riddell> mdz: thanks
[06:39] <sorush21> guys why isn't there a downgarde option ?
[06:39] <pitti> sorush21: you can downgrade a single package with apt
[06:40] <pitti> sorush21: but you can't downgrade an entire install, that'd just break
[06:40] <sorush21> pitti: well how do i do that
[06:40] <pitti> (well, you can, but it's nontrivial)
[06:40] <sivang> yay, seems like migration is over :)
[06:40] <pitti> sorush21: apt-get install package=version, or package/release
[06:40] <pitti> sorush21: btw, that's #ubuntu stuff
[06:47] <mdke> ah, the bug bot
[06:47] <mdke> cool
[06:48] <Keybuk> yeah, I asked Seveas to pop it in here for a bit ... I think it's useful :)  feel free to direct complaints at me rather than him :p
[06:48] <Seveas> @config channel bugtracker.bugsnarfer
[06:48] <Ubugtu> Error: 'supybot.bugtracker.bugsnarfer' is not a valid configuration variable.
[06:49] <pef> hello
[06:49] <mdke> Keybuk, full agreement here
[06:50] <HiddenWolf> Seveas: what the hell is a bugsnarfer?
[06:50] <HiddenWolf> Seveas: sounds icky
[06:50] <Seveas> something that snarfs for bugs
[06:50] <Keybuk> and that gives you an error? :)
[06:51] <Seveas> no, I'm trying to set the default snarftarget
[06:51] <Seveas> if you say bug 1000 (watch closely) it'll take that as ubuntu bug 1000
[06:51] <Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 1000: "Can't start samba" Product: Ubuntu, Component: samba, Severity: major, Assigned to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: WONTFIX http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1000
[06:51] <Seveas> but that's a per-channel thing and it should be malone now :)
[06:52] <Seveas> @config channel plugins.bugtracker.snarftarget malone
[06:52] <Ubugtu> The operation succeeded.
[06:52] <pitti> Seveas: oh, I wasn't aware that ububtu works in -devel, too
[06:52] <Seveas> pitti, since a few minutes, Keybuk asked for it
[06:52] <pitti> nice
[06:52] <Seveas> (so complaints go to him :))
[06:53] <pitti> thanks
[06:53] <pitti> bug 1
[06:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1: "Microsoft has a majority market share" Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Confirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[06:53] <Robot101> lol
[06:53] <Keybuk> bug 28463 ?
[06:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28463: "New changes from Debian require merging" Fix req. for: udev (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Rejected http://launchpad.net/bugs/28463
[06:53] <Keybuk> \o/
[06:53] <Seveas> @bugtracker list
[06:53] <Ubugtu> debian, freedesktop, gnome, gnome2, kernel, malone, mozilla, and ubuntu
[06:54] <Seveas> prefix it with one of those names to indicate a specific tracker
[06:54] <Seveas> like: debian bug 400000
[06:54] <Ubugtu> An error has occurred.
[06:54] <Seveas> ugh
[06:54] <Seveas> and poke me if that happens :)
[06:54] <pitti> Seveas: what's the difference between gnome and gnome2?
[06:54] <Seveas> pitti, bugs.gnome vs bugzilla.gnome
[06:54] <pitti> Seveas: no worries, Debian is in the 300K'ish
[06:54] <Seveas> not useful here, but useful for the other feature: the urlsnarfer
[06:54] <Seveas> gnome bug 10000
[06:54] <Keybuk> debian 340198
[06:54] <Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Gnome bug #10000: NotFound
[06:54] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 340198: "PowerPC : Impossible to create a logical RAID 1 root partition" Package: installation-reports, Maintainer: Debian Install Team  http://bugs.debian.org/340198
[06:55] <Keybuk> debian bug 340198
[06:55] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 340198: "PowerPC : Impossible to create a logical RAID 1 root partition" Package: installation-reports, Maintainer: Debian Install Team  http://bugs.debian.org/340198
[06:55] <Keybuk> yeah, it was just too high
[06:55] <Seveas> it should not error out, but say "Not Found"
[06:56] <spacey_ki> ubuntu 1
[06:56] <Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 1: "openssl: Expired certificates and recertification" Product: Ubuntu, Component: openssl, Severity: normal, Assigned to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: NOTWARTY http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1
[06:56] <Seveas> hmm, debian BTS does not return 404 on nonexisting bugs?
[06:57] <fabbione> oh god
[06:57] <fabbione> more spam in the channel?
[06:57] <Seveas> fabbione, It's just the "Hey we have a new toy" phase
[06:57] <Keybuk> fabbione: let's trial it for a bit and see if it's a useful thing ... I think it will be
[06:57] <Seveas> it'll be less funny and more helpful in a few hours
[06:57] <fabbione> ok
[06:58] <Diziet> I have a bad feeling.  But OK.
[06:58] <Seveas> -desktop -bugs #malone and #bzr quite like it
[06:58] <fabbione> Ubugtu: die my little friend
[06:58] <fabbione> :)
[06:58] <Keybuk> if it saves us having to fire up Launchpad just to find out what someone's talking about, it's good by me <g>
[06:58] <fabbione> i don't like autoanswering bots
[06:59] <Seveas> fabbione, this one only answers on bug id's and urls, specifically rigged to not answer to anything else
[06:59] <Seveas> (I hate autoansering bots too :))
[06:59] <fabbione> let's try
[06:59] <fabbione> Keybuk: did you see ubuntu 10 and debian 200 ?
[06:59] <Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 10: "Ports open but not response from dovecot daemon (hppa)" Product: Ubuntu, Component: gnutls7, Severity: normal, Assigned to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: NOTWARTY http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10
[06:59] <Ubugtu> An error has occurred.
[07:00] <fabbione> there you go
[07:00] <fabbione> no
[07:00] <fabbione> it's triggable even talking with other people
[07:00] <Keybuk> fabbione: that's a useful usecase no? :p
[07:00] <fabbione> no it's not :)
[07:00] <Keybuk> because that'll tell *me* what bug you wanted me to read
[07:00] <fabbione> it floods the channel
[07:00] <Keybuk> one line isn't a flood
[07:01] <fabbione> it depends how you read that line.. for me it's like 8
[07:01] <pitti> fabbione: it's used for ages in #ubuntu-desktop, maybe seb128 and dholbach can share their experience?
[07:01] <fabbione> and i am at 1600x1200
[07:01] <Seveas> fabbione, must be a huge font :)
[07:01] <fabbione> Seveas: a readable font
[07:01] <pitti> for me it's 3 lines, and I only have 1/3 of the screen width for this xchat window
[07:01] <seb128> pitti: about? Ubugtu? we find it really useful
[07:02] <pitti> seb128: that's my impression, too
[07:02] <dholbach> yeah
[07:02] <seb128> 3 lines here, 1280x1024
[07:02] <pitti> (otoh my font size is just 8 pixels, or so)
[07:02] <Keybuk> anyway, like I said, let's trial it and decide after having used and/or suffered it for a while whether we think it's a useful thing or not
[07:02] <dholbach> same on 1024x768 :)
[07:02] <dholbach> Keybuk: ++
[07:09] <Seveas> fabbione, if after the trial period yous till don't like it, there's always /ignore :)
[07:14] <hordur> pitti: ping
[07:14] <Diziet> There's too much clutter in the output, certainly.  We don't need to know all of that stuff about the status and the URL is trivial to guess.  The title might well be useful though.
[07:15] <Diziet> Also, strings like `Product: ' are just wasted space.
[07:15] <Keybuk> Diziet: sadly Malone URLs aren't trivial :-/
[07:15] <Diziet> keybuk: Then we should make a redirector so that they can be trivially typed.
[07:16] <pitti> Diziet: but it's nice to just click on the URL instead of typing it manually
[07:16] <pitti> hi hordur
[07:16] <hordur> hi
[07:16] <Keybuk> I have to agree with pitti here I think, I like the clickyness :)
[07:16] <Diziet> Yes, it's nice for the 1% of times you want to visit it but annoying for the 99% where it's just noise.
[07:16] <Diziet> I'd prefer something like:
 Ubuntu bug 10: "Ports open but not response from dovecot daemon (hppa)" [gnutls7, normal, notwarty]
[07:16] <Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 10: "Ports open but not response from dovecot daemon (hppa)" Product: Ubuntu, Component: gnutls7, Severity: normal, Assigned to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: NOTWARTY http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10
[07:16] <Seveas> Keybuk, actually: malone bugs are trivial
[07:16] <hordur> pitti so what now?
[07:17] <pitti> ah, I remember, the hal issue
[07:17] <Keybuk> Seveas: aren't they /distros/ubuntu/+source/$package/+bug/$number ?
[07:17] <pitti> hordur: hrm, I have to leave in 10 minutes unfortunately
[07:17] <Seveas> Keybuk, they all have shortcuts, see ubugtu output
[07:17] <Seveas> malone bug 1001
[07:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1001: ""Distribution Members" is confusing" Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Needs Info http://launchpad.net/bugs/1001
[07:17] <hordur> pitti: no problem
[07:17] <pitti> hordur: do you think you have some time next week?
[07:17] <pitti> hordur: oh, and welcome in the channel :)
[07:17] <hordur> pitti: sure, and thanks
[07:18] <Burgwork> Keybuk, lp being dump https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/28465
[07:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28465: "New changes from Debian require merging" Fix req. for: cdebconf (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/28465
[07:18] <Keybuk> Seveas: but those shortcuts don't have the association to the package they're filed against, so it's harder to change the status, no?
[07:18] <Burgwork> dumb, even
[07:18] <Seveas> Keybuk, they're all redirections to the real url
[07:18] <Keybuk> Burgwork: uh ... why does it do that?!
[07:18] <Burgwork> jamesh, what is up with that URL is just posted? Not reported in Ubuntu?
[07:19] <Keybuk> that's got to be new
[07:19] <Burgwork> Keybuk, the UI is at war with itself (No, its not reported in Ubuntu. Yes it is....)
[07:19] <Keybuk> that isn't there on the exact copy of that bug I have open in a different window
[07:22] <Burgwork> Keybuk, different URL
[07:22] <Keybuk> oh
[07:22] <Burgwork> I was testing URLs to see what worked and found that breakage
[07:24] <lamont-away> pitti: how do I get pmount to quit upshifting all the filenames when it mounts a vfat partition?
[07:25] <pitti> lamont-away: erm, by filing a bug and asking me to add a --vfatnames option, I guess
[07:25] <lamont-away> I see
[07:25] <Keybuk> have you paid your licence fee to able to mount said vfat partition? :)
[07:25] <pitti> lamont-away: shortname=mixed does not DTRT?
[07:25] <pitti> heh
[07:25] <lamont-away> pitti: dunno
[07:26] <pitti> lamont-away: it does what win$ does
[07:26] <lamont-away> I used to just say 'mount /dev/sdd1 /xx' and pull files... when pmount mounts it these days, all the filenames are uppercase
[07:26] <pitti> yes, shortname=lower is the kernel default, but it's not compatible to windows
[07:27] <lamont-away> pitti: except that windoze also does case-insensitive matching in file searches (it seems) - I have at least one CD that was completely busted for browsing, because the links differ from the names-as-seen
[07:27] <pitti> right
[07:27] <lamont-away> otoh, must run
[07:51] <Q-FUNK> hi! I'd like to know, which lines do I need to put in pbuilderrc to add security and updates?
[07:51] <Burgwork> Q-FUNK, #ubuntu for those sorts of questions
[07:52] <Burgwork> Q-FUNK, or #ubuntu-motu , sorry
[07:52] <Q-FUNK> Burgwork: since when is pbuilder an end-user application?
[07:52] <Q-FUNK> right :)
[08:06] <Keybuk> ... a paged bug tracking system
[08:06] <Keybuk> *cries*
[08:06] <Keybuk> who's idea was that?!
[08:06] <Burgwork> Keybuk, what do you mean>
[08:06] <Burgwork> ?
[08:06] <Keybuk> "21 -> 40 of 76 results"
[08:06] <Burgwork> ah yes
[08:08] <pitti> Keybuk: ask Seb, he's in the three-digits
[08:09] <Keybuk> well, Malone should certainly reduce the number of bugs in Ubuntu
[08:09] <seb128> Keybuk: "1   20  of 686 results"
[08:10] <seb128> who wants some? :)
[08:10] <Burgwork> dholbach, do you have the chance to sync scribus?
[08:11] <dholbach> Burgwork: sync? merge?
[08:11] <Burgwork> dholbach, merge. I haven't touched it, but I have some people asking me about it for dapper
[08:11] <dholbach> Burgwork: i'll have a look
[08:11] <Burgwork> dholbach, thanks
[08:18] <Keybuk> good night all
[08:20] <pitti> Kamion: ppc/install success (offline, German, manual partitioning)
[08:22] <pitti> Kamion: the ppc/live pproblem just seems to be the usual lagging with a new kernel abi
[08:23] <pitti> Kamion: oh, no, it's not; the live CD has the powerpc64-smp kernel installed (which boots, but the live system tries to access /lib/modules/2.6.15-12-powerpc/, not powerpc64-smp)
[08:24] <ogra_ibook> pitti, Kamion infinity: powerpc live CDs appear not to work on my powerbook; I get /lib/modules/2.6.12-powerpc64-smp instead of the correct -powerpc
[08:25] <pitti> ogra_ibook: right, that's the issue I'm chasing right now
[08:25] <ogra_ibook> :)
[08:26] <pitti> Kamion: I'm puzzled; the linux-image-2.6.15-12-powerpc_2.6.15-12.17_powerpc.deb has the correct path, and uname -a shows nothign about powerpc64 or smp; still, the installed system has above ppc64 path in /lib
[08:27] <pitti> Kamion, BenC: this almost looks like BenC's patch for autodetecting 32/64 selected the 64 bit kernel on my system
[08:27] <pitti> so iz yaboot bug
[08:28] <BenC> pitti: can you cat /proc/device-tree/comptaible?
[08:29] <pitti> BenC: I can, minute
[08:29] <BenC> compatible
[08:29] <BenC> and also, can you paste the yaboot.conf somewhere?
[08:29] <BenC> from the cd
[08:30] <BenC> also, you can watch the second stage loader and it should say something like "Loading Elf{32,64} kernel..."
[08:30] <pitti> BenC: compatible: "PowerBook6,3MacRISC3Power Macintosh
[08:31] <pitti> "
[08:31] <pitti> BenC: I can't watch it, it appears for like 0.2 seconds
[08:31] <pitti> BenC: at the busybox stage, there is no /etc/yaboot.conf
[08:31] <pitti> BenC: do you mean from the cloop image on CD?
[08:32] <BenC> from /install on the cd
[08:32] <pitti> oh, squashfs now
[08:33] <pitti> BenC: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7106
[08:34] <BenC> file /install/powerpc/vmlinux, please
[08:34] <BenC> yaboot.conf looks correct
[08:35] <pitti> BenC: scp is running, ETA 50 s
[08:35] <BenC> guess I should download the cdimage
[08:36] <pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/shots/vmlinux
[08:36] <pitti> BenC: ^ that kernel you wanted
[08:36] <pitti> vmlinux: ELF 32-bit MSB executable, PowerPC or cisco 4500, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, not stripped
[08:36] <BenC> but I did test the yaboot with a config similar to the one you showed, and it worked on my pb and G5
[08:36] <BenC> ok, that should be good
[08:37] <BenC> are you hitting return or typing "live"?
[08:37] <pitti> just hitting return
[08:37] <ogra_ibook> i guess its restricted-modules ...
[08:37] <pitti> but that booted live AFAIK
[08:37] <BenC> canyou try typing live?
[08:37] <pitti> default=live
[08:37] <pitti> hmm, shouldn't make a difference
[08:37] <BenC> shouldn't
[08:38] <pitti> there are a ton of warnings right before the yaboot screen
[08:38] <pitti> but waay to fast to read them
[08:38] <pitti> BenC: same result when typing 'live'
[08:38] <BenC> wish we had smaller cd images
[08:39] <pitti> BenC: any idea why I see /lib/modules/...-ppc64-smp in the initramfs?
[08:39] <BenC> -ppc64-smp or -powerpc64-smp?
[08:39] <pitti> BenC: if uname -a spits out a name without 64 or smp, I should have the 32 bit image, or not?
[08:39] <pitti> BenC: powerpc64-smp, sorry (just was lazy)
[08:40] <BenC> yes
[08:40] <BenC> cat /proc/version should help too
[08:40] <pitti> right, 2.6.12-12-powerpc
[08:40] <BenC> then it booted right
[08:40] <pitti> BenC: so I do have the normal 32 bit powerpc kernel running
[08:40] <pitti> and I just checked the .deb
[08:40] <pitti> it has the correct path
[08:40] <BenC> yeah, so yaboot did it's job
[08:40] <pitti> so I wonder where this lib path comes from ?
[08:41] <BenC> check /lib/modules/
[08:41] <pitti> what in particular?
[08:41] <BenC> it just has -powerpc64-smp?
[08:41] <pitti> 2.6.15-12-powerpc64-smp is the only directory, and it has modules and all
[08:42] <BenC> does /install/powerpc/initrd.gz correct? (does it contain -powerpc)
[08:42] <BenC> can you get that for me?
[08:42] <ssam> todays live wont boot my g4 powerbook either
[08:43] <pitti> BenC: yes
[08:43] <pitti> BenC: /lib/modules/2.6.15-12-powerpc
[08:43] <pitti> whoo, an initd is a cpio archive? interesting
[08:43] <BenC> initramfs is, yes
[08:45] <pitti> BenC: anything else I need to do? I actually have to leave now (or actually 30 minutes ago)
[08:45] <BenC> nah, I understand the problem now
[08:45] <BenC> I can take it from here
[08:45] <BenC> thanks
[08:45] <pitti> oh, cool
[08:45] <pitti> BenC: what's the reason?
[08:46] <BenC> sounds like it is overiding the 32-bit entry with the 64-but values (macrisc4 stuff in yaboot.conf)
[08:46] <BenC> so it is loading hte right kernel, but the wrong initrd
[08:47] <pitti> so how comes that dir into the initramdisk?
[08:47] <pitti> if it's not in the kernel deb, and not in the initramdisk...
[08:48] <Riddell> pitti: did the ubuntu powerpc live CD candidate work for you?
[08:48] <pitti> Riddell: no, see current backscroll
[08:48] <pitti> Riddell: <BenC> nah, I understand the problem now
[08:48] <pitti> BenC: thanks Ben for fixing it
[08:48] <pitti> ok, time for Friday evening
[08:48] <pitti> have a nice weekend everybody
[08:49] <tseng_> bye pitti
[08:50] <dholbach> hmmmmmmm
[08:50] <sivang> you too pitti
[08:50] <dholbach> i just tried to merge scribus, it build-depends on python2.4-dev and ends up with a python2.3 dependency
[08:50] <dholbach> (no dh_python is used), no manual python2.3 dependency
[08:50] <dholbach> *gnarf*
[08:51] <dholbach> s/wants/what's
[08:51] <dholbach> if this wasn't b0rked we could just sync it
[08:51] <dholbach> nevermind me
[08:51] <dholbach> forget what i said
[08:52] <dholbach> . o O { must be getting late }
[08:55] <sivang> dholbach: do you know what the procedure for approving <= 2000 cds from shipit ?
[08:55] <Burgwork> sivang, talk to marilize
[08:55] <sivang> err, >= 200 that is
[08:55] <sivang> Burgwork: it's for someone else, not for me
[08:56] <Burgwork> sivang, she manages all of shipit
[08:56] <sivang> Burgwork: should I tell him toe mail here directoly ? or does needs to go through silbs?
[08:56] <elmo> just place the order, shipit will flag it, if it's super-size-me large
[08:56] <LaserJock> I was wondering why octave2.9 is in Debian but not in Ubuntu. Is there a place I can go to find out or does anybody know offhand?
[08:56] <sivang> elmo: ok, and then the requester will get contacted?
[08:57] <Burgwork> sivang, likely it will just get downsized by marilize
[08:57] <Burgwork> sivang, if the person wants lots and can prove the need, they are best left contact marilize directly
[08:57] <sivang> Burgwork: ok, I'll let him know. what's her email?
[08:58] <Burgwork> sivang, I think<EMAIL_ADDRESS>works
[08:58] <sivang> ah right, thanks Corey
[08:58] <Treenaks> ooh.. shiny new kernelness
[08:59] <Burgwork> sivang, it appears to be<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:00] <sivang> eh, oops
[09:00] <sivang> ok, I'll let him know
[09:00] <sivang> thx again
[09:04] <mgalvin> Mithrandir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDPersistence
[09:05] <dholbach> elmo: do you know why octave2.9 is in debian but not in ubuntu?
[09:05] <Treenaks> BenC: Will drivers get a final upgrade before breezy?
[09:06] <BenC> ah, it's Kamion's fault that yaboot is broken
[09:06] <Treenaks> BenC: (I just saw this patch: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.drivers.ipw2100.devel/7063)
[09:06] <BenC> Treenaks: depends, I'm in "only if it needs it" more right now
[09:06] <Amaranth> eek, yaboot is broken?
[09:06] <LaserJock> Seveas: is there a way to tell Ubugtu to not look for a bug in a line?
[09:06] <Treenaks> BenC: (which will make WPA work in NetworkManager in NM's next release)
[09:06] <BenC> Aman: only for cd boots
[09:06] <Amaranth> oh
[09:07] <BenC> Treenaks: file a bug report, or email a working patch to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:07] <Amaranth> i wonder if the bcm43xx driver does WPA-PSK using the card or only with dscape
[09:07] <Treenaks> BenC: ok
[09:08] <Seveas> LaserJock, there is no way (yet)
[09:08] <Amaranth> Seveas: the line should need to say 'bug' or 'malone/supported tracker'
[09:08] <ogra_ibook> bug is fine
[09:08] <Seveas> Amaranth, that's already the case
[09:08] <Treenaks> BenC: hm, on what package?
[09:08] <LaserJock> Seveas: yeah, maybe if had more stringent syntax
[09:09] <Amaranth> Seveas: how does "install -m 0644 plotdrop.png $(PREFIX)/share/pixmaps in a Makefile" make it show malone bug 644 then?
[09:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 644: "sharp libgecko-cil (Ubuntu) - Dependencies problem in libgecko-cil" Fix req. for: gecko-sharp libgecko-cil (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Fix Released http://launchpad.net/bugs/644
[09:09] <Amaranth> ack
[09:09] <ogra_ibook> yes, chmod 0644 shouldnt matc
[09:09] <BenC> linux-source-2.6.15
[09:10] <BenC> someone please tell me there is an archive of packages that get moved out of the pool?
[09:10] <Seveas> Amaranth, because you say mal.one bug 644 in that line :)
[09:10] <Seveas> ah
[09:10] <Seveas> wait
[09:10] <ogra_ibook> BenC, there is ... but i dont know where
[09:10] <Amaranth> Seveas: i meant the commented part
[09:10] <Seveas> right, there's a call to shorthand too much
[09:10] <BenC> I _need_
[09:10] <Seveas> fix0ring
[09:10] <ogra_ibook> BenC, elmo knows i think
[09:10] <BenC> I am _not_ writing this yaboot patch all over again
[09:11] <Amaranth> does the morgue work?
[09:14] <ogra_ibook> mdz, seems kdeedu_3.5.0-0ubuntu2 is in the archive, could you start a CD build ?
[09:19] <dholbach> Burgwork: done
[09:21] <LaserJock> dholbach: scribus?
[09:21] <dholbach> yeah
[09:22] <Burgwork> dholbach, thanks very much. I owe you one
[09:22] <LaserJock> sweet, I was just going to start working on a research poster
[09:22] <dholbach> de rien :)
[09:22] <dholbach> have a nice evening
[09:27] <Burgwork> why do packages contain -dfsg in them?
[09:28] <Burgwork> is it because of policy violations or license problems by upstream?
[09:29] <Seveas> yes
[09:29] <sivang> Seveas: which , lcs problem or policy viols ?
[09:29] <Seveas> afaik could be both, but IANADD
[09:30] <ogra_ibook> seb128, seems Gtk::EventBox in gtk perl stopped working with the recent gtk upgrade
[09:31] <seb128> ogra_ibook: file a bug with a testcase and a description of the issue
[09:31] <ogra_ibook> Can't locate object method "signal_connect" via package "Gtk2::EventBox"
[09:31] <Burgwork> ogra_ibook, http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gtk+/2.8/gtk+-2.8.10.news
[09:31] <Burgwork> ogra_ibook, there is other breakage in perl:gtk in the latest gtk
[09:31] <seb128> right
[09:31] <ogra_ibook> Burgwork, ah, thanks, couldnt find anything in the changelog
[09:31] <seb128> don't file a bug :)
[09:31] <seb128> Burgwork: thank you
[09:31] <ogra_ibook> i wont :)
[09:33] <poningru> I had a question regarding libpng
[09:33] <poningru> I thought if libmng is used you dont need libpng
[09:35] <BenC> Kamion: ping
[09:36] <elmo> [Updating]  gal (0 [Ubuntu]  < 2.5.3-1.1 [Debian] )
[09:36] <elmo> E: gal is trying to override libgal2.4-common_2.5.3-0ubuntu1 without -f/--force.
[09:36] <ogra_ibook> BenC, he's gone
[09:36] <elmo> seb128/dholbach: do we want that version of gal in Ubuntu at all?
[09:38] <elmo> daniels: should renderext be blacklisted?
[09:39] <seb128> elmo: get gal, that's a rename of gal2.4
[09:39] <seb128> and you can drop gal2.4
[09:40] <elmo> seb128: overwriting the ubuntu changes in gal2.4 ?
[09:40] <seb128> no Ubuntu change required
[09:40] <BenC> oh well, fixed yaboot uploaded
[09:40] <elmo> seb128: k
[09:40] <seb128> yep
[09:40] <seb128> thanks
[09:43] <elmo> daniels: specifically:
[09:43] <elmo> [Updating]  renderext (0 [Ubuntu]  < 1:0.9.2-1 [Debian] )
[09:43] <elmo> E: render-dev is in main but it's source (renderext) is not.
[09:46] <torkel> oh, joy, I'm getting moderator approval mails from ubuntu-bugs when filing bug reports...
[09:47] <elmo> doko: your turn
[09:47] <elmo> [Updating]  zopeinterface (0 [Ubuntu]  < 3.0.1-1 [Debian] )
[09:47] <elmo> E: python-zopeinterface is in main but it's source (zopeinterface) is not.
[09:47] <seb128> torkel: known issue
[09:48] <torkel> seb128: k
[09:48] <seb128> torkel: it will be fixed don't worry
[09:49] <doko> elmo: zopeinterface is built by zope3, which should be at version 3.1
[09:50] <LarstiQ> would this be a good place to ask about upstream freezage?
[09:51] <seb128> maybe, depending of the question :)
[09:52] <elmo> doko: 'zopeinterface' source package (for 3.0) is in Debian tho - should it be blacklisted or removed from Debian?
[09:52] <LarstiQ> seb128: basically, blender is trying to release 2.41 before the 19th, but it might slip a couple of days
[09:53] <LarstiQ> seb128: it is possible to do a release without some of the gameengine fixes if that ensures a place in dapper
[09:53] <ogra_ibook> LarstiQ, stability > featuritis for dapper
[09:54] <seb128> we can probably update the the new version some days after the freeze if that's worth it
[09:54] <seb128> ie: stable version with fixes, etc
[09:54] <LarstiQ> ogra_ibook: 2.41 is a bugfix release over 2.40
[09:54] <LarstiQ> ogra_ibook: so most probably 2.40 is a worse idea
[09:54] <ogra_ibook> LarstiQ, then it should be possible ...
[09:55] <seb128> does blender has a nice documented list of changes (NEWS, Changelog)?
[09:55] <LarstiQ> seb128: fsvo nice, no
[09:55] <ogra_ibook> (depending on the fixes)
[09:55] <Tm_T> and again, someone is complaining about console app in kubuntu, saying it work better in ubuntu... ok
[09:55] <seb128> "fsvo"?
[09:55] <LarstiQ> seb128: for some values of
[09:55] <seb128> k
[09:55] <LarstiQ> seb128: the changelogs are more user oriented
[09:55] <seb128> because that kind of stuff makes easier to determinate if that's the sort of changes we want
[09:55] <LarstiQ> seb128: http://blender.org/cms/Blender_2_40.598.0.html is the 2.40 one
[09:58] <LarstiQ> seb128: I'll hammer on stability, we'll see if we manage to wrap everything up in time
[09:59] <seb128> LarstiQ: mail ubuntu-devel when the new version is available with a list of changes and why it would be nice to have it if it comes after the freeze
[09:59] <LarstiQ> seb128: will do, thanks!
[10:00] <seb128> np
[10:00] <seb128> thank you for working on that :)
[10:18] <linuxboy> hello
[10:19] <Burgwork> linuxboy, hello. What brings you here today?
[10:19] <linuxboy> Burgwork: a question :)
[10:19] <Burgwork> linuxboy, if it is related to support, please ask it in #ubuntu
[10:20] <linuxboy> I want to know if there is a bash package with....
[10:20] <linuxboy> --disable-net-redirections
[10:20] <linuxboy> not used
[10:20] <Burgwork> linuxboy, if you need that, please file a bug and that sort of question is best asked in #ubuntu
[10:21] <linuxboy> Burgwork: I don't think its a bug. I just wanted to know if one of the devs had some unofficial package i could use
[10:21] <linuxboy> if not, I'll make my own
[10:21] <mdz> ogra_ibook: which CDs?
[10:22] <Burgwork> linuxboy, if Ubuntu is not providing you something, it is likely a bug, because other people will need it
[10:22] <ogra_> mdz, edubuntu install images
[10:22] <mdz> ogra_: in progress
[10:22] <ogra_> mdz, sadly liboost was silently autosynced over night, i wanted to finish them with kamion this morning...
[10:22] <ogra_> mdz, thanks
[10:23] <linuxboy> Burgwork: I don't see this as a bug. I think I'll just make my own package
[10:43] <ogra> mdz, could you trigger another one, scribus was just half built when the image was created, i missed the upload from dholbach
[10:43] <mdz> ogra: in progress
[10:43] <ogra> thanks
[10:51] <tepsipakki> hmm, the devstatus pdf on u-d-a was the same as last week
[10:52] <ajmitch> morning all :)
[10:52] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[10:52] <ajmitch> hello sistpoty
[11:04] <ulaas> are ubuntu kernels preemptible?
[11:05] <ajmitch> yes
[11:05] <ulaas> thnax
[11:05] <ajmitch> at least dapper's is
[11:05] <ogra> ARGH !!!
[11:06] <ogra> DHOLBACH !!!!
[11:06] <crimsun> uh oh
[11:06] <ogra> no flight3 for edubuntu
[11:07] <ogra> :(((
[11:07] <ulaas> why oh why?
[11:08] <ogra> because of a way to quick scribus upload that depends on stuff in universe the images are broken
[11:08] <ogra> seems debian added a dependency on python
[11:08] <ogra> err
[11:08] <ogra> python-imaging-tk
[11:09] <ogra> what a wasted day
[11:09] <doko> elmo: please blacklist zopeinterface, ubuntu only, I'll address this in debian with the maintainer
[11:10] <elmo> doko: k, done, thx
[11:11] <Burgwork> ogra, I apologize, I asked dholbach for a scribus merge, without thinking of the consquence
[11:12] <ogra> Burgwork, there shouldnt be a consequence if he had looked at the dependencys ... my prob is now that i wont get python-imaging-tk included before pitti is back on monday, and we wanted to release flight3 then ...
[11:13] <Burgwork> ogra, still, I did start this stone rolling down the hill. I feel bad
[11:16] <ajmitch> elmo: please sync hztty, dropping the ubuntu changes
[11:17] <elmo> "allegro4.2", "kde-icons-nuvola", "kde-style-lipstik", "octave2.9",
[11:17] <elmo> ^-- MOTUs, that's the list of "BROKEN" packages in josie atm
[11:17] <ajmitch> ok, thanks
[11:17] <elmo> if someone would like to examine them, see if they should be synced or merged, that'd be nice, kthx
[11:18] <elmo> ajmitch: done
[11:34] <sistpoty> elmo: kde-icons-nuvola has different sourcepackages in debian and ubuntu... and it's ubuntu version is higher than debians. what do you suggest?
[11:35] <sistpoty> (it looks that it has been packaged differently)
[11:35] <elmo> sistpoty: you mean ubuntu packaged it's own version?
[11:35] <sistpoty> yep
[11:35] <elmo> ugh
[11:35] <sistpoty> elmo: should I rename it?
[11:36] <elmo> $ dpkg --compare-versions 1.0.0-1 \< 1.0.final-2ubuntu1; echo 0
[11:36] <elmo> 0
[11:37] <elmo> it's a lower version
[11:37] <elmo> so IMHO, we should switch to the Debian packaging, if we can, and merge our changes?  or sync if there aren't any
[11:37] <sistpoty> ok, will do... (and damn, I got --compare-version wrong again *g*)
[11:38] <elmo> err
[11:38] <elmo> echo 0 isn't very clever is it
[11:38] <elmo> anyway, it's still right ;-)
[11:38] <elmo> (I meant echo $?)
[11:38] <ogra> elmo, it was most likely packaged ahead of debian by amu, i guess you can take the debian package
[11:39] <elmo> ogra: I don't want a guess :-P
[11:39] <ogra> elmo, i suspect we have some packages of this kind in the KDE area
[11:39] <elmo> I want someone to look at it and tell me to sync, or do the merge, based on having looked at the package
[11:39] <elmo> sistpoty: thanks
[11:39] <sistpoty> np
[11:59] <sistpoty> elmo: kde-icons-nuvola can be synced (but would be a lower version then?)
[12:00] <elmo> sistpoty: no, it'd be higher?
[12:00] <elmo> 1.0.0 is >> 1.0.final
[12:00] <elmo> I
[12:01] <elmo> 'm getting dejavu
[12:01] <Riddell> elmo: please sync kde-style-lipstik, overwriting ubuntu package
[12:01] <sistpoty> he, I'm confused, I guess *g*