[04:11] <lifeless> dobey: don't suppose you're still around?
[06:30] <lifeless> what should be done with stable and db-devel are auto-merge-conflicting
[06:31] <wgrant> Somebody needs to resolve the conflicts and then just submit to db-devel.
[06:31] <wgrant> They're pretty easily resolved.
[06:33] <wgrant> So it needs somebody with about two minutes of time and PQM privileges.
[06:37] <lifeless> do you have pqm access?
[06:37] <lifeless> [if not why not :P]
[06:37] <wgrant> No :(
[06:53] <nigelb> https://launchpad.net/~bongcaivang has been assigning bugs to himself.  anything can be done?
[06:54] <wgrant> nigelb: eg?
[06:54] <lifeless> wgrant: I sggested nigelb pop in here
[06:54] <lifeless> wgrant: a new ubuntu spammer, need someone with the CHR bit set.
[06:54] <nigelb> wgrant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-client/+bug/447090
[06:54] <mup> Bug #447090: can not sign in <apport-bug> <i386> <ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu):Fix Committed by bongcaivang> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/447090>
[06:55] <wgrant> lifeless: You have the power.
[06:55] <lifeless> wgrant: do I?
[06:55] <wgrant> lifeless: Yeah. ~lifeless -> ~launchpad -> ~registry
[06:55] <lifeless> ah, I did't knw they had done that for all
[06:56] <nigelb> here's the list of all the bugs he's assigned to himself (ugh
[06:56] <nigelb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~bongcaivang/+assignedbugs
[06:56] <wgrant> In fact, ~canonical-bazaar is sufficient too.
[06:57] <cody-somerville> To do what exactly? deactivate his account?
[06:57] <wgrant> cody-somerville: Suspend, but yes.
[06:57] <lifeless> suspended
[06:57] <wgrant> lifeless: Emailed too?
[06:57] <nigelb> thanks lifeless :)
[06:58] <lifeless> wgrant: I filled out the reason field
[06:58] <nigelb> we've been unassigning and he's be reassigning for quite some time
[06:58] <wgrant> lifeless: The user will be unable to see that.
[06:58] <nigelb> whole yday was cat and mouse
[06:58] <lifeless> wgrant: I'm assuming that that would email him
[06:58] <wgrant> I don't believe so.
[06:58] <lifeless> bah
[06:58] <wgrant> But let me check.
[06:58] <lifeless> care to spend 30 seconds to check?
[06:59] <wgrant> You might also want to look at the CHR docs on wiki.c.c. There might be something there.
[07:00] <wgrant> lifeless: Suspending does not email the user.
[07:00] <lifeless> wgrant: wasn't anything in the cheatsheet the other day (and all them should be faqs anyhow)
[07:00] <wgrant> And there can't be any hooks that do it, because the second thing the button handler does is unset the preferred email.
[07:01] <lifeless> not documented
[07:01] <wgrant> Damn.
[07:01] <wgrant> Send the user a nice email and ask them to contact feedback@ for objections, I guess.
[07:02] <lifeless> yeah
[07:02] <lifeless><EMAIL_ADDRESS>right?
[07:02] <wgrant> Right.
[07:02] <lifeless> hmm, is that 6 or 7 bugs today
[07:03] <wgrant> More more more!
[07:03] <lifeless> I can't email them
[07:04] <lifeless> suspended accounts are 404
[07:04]  * lifeless asks a question
[07:04] <wgrant> I have their old page open.
[07:04] <lifeless> do you have their email
[07:04] <wgrant> PMed.
[07:06] <lifeless> thanks
[07:06] <lifeless> mailed them,
[07:06] <lifeless> bcc feedback@ so CHR folk have a record
[07:06] <wgrant> Great.
[07:06] <nigelb> lifeless, wgrant: both of you work for canonical?
[07:07] <lifeless> nigelb: I do; wgrant doesn't, though we should fix that :P
[07:07] <nigelb> hehe, file a bug ;)
[07:17]  * wgrant just got hit in the face by a Windmill.
[07:18] <wgrant> Must the test suite really pop up Firefox windows?
[07:18] <lifeless> wgrant: /o\
[07:18] <lifeless> wgrant: xvfb-run
[07:19] <wgrant> lifeless: Indeed.
[07:19] <wgrant> I just didn't think my test expression would catch any Windmill tests.
[07:19] <lifeless> nobody expects the windmill
[07:19] <wgrant> Very true.
[08:17] <wgrant> BjornT: Is ILFA actually exportable?
[08:18] <wgrant> It's not exported at the moment, and everywhere else just exposes URLs.
[08:18] <wgrant> (and Julian suggested it in the bug)
[09:52] <BjornT> wgrant: oh, i was quite sure it was exportable, but it seems that they aren't.


[00:19] <valorie> oh good, all is well
 Haha
[14:01]  * Mamarok knows why she keeps away from NVIDIA stuff since years...
[14:02] <Mamarok> that is one of my criteria when choosing new hardware...


[00:08] <lool> Wouah /var/lib/dpkg/info/hwtest-gtk.postrm
[00:08] <lool> package=`dirname $0`
[00:08] <lool> . $package/hwtest.postrm
[00:11] <lool> hwtest-gtk needs hwtest, hwtest needs checkbox, hwtest-gtk depends checkbox-gtk, checkbox-gtk conflicts with hwtest-gtk hmmpf
[00:37] <cjwatson> ebroder: no
[00:38] <cjwatson> Laney: documentation is handled case-by-case: see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/licensing
[00:39] <cjwatson> Laney: there's a fair bit of precedent for permitting GFDL+invariants in main/universe, although I would still recommend trying to persuade upstream otherwise since there are GPL-compatibility implications; there is also precedent for just syncing stuff from Debian's non-free component and leaving it in multiverse because nobody cared enough
[00:39] <cjwatson> lool: ugh, that's pretty dire
[00:40] <Laney> cjwatson: I understand - so it's pretty much left up to developers' conscience
[00:40] <cjwatson> lool: the checkbox-gtk conflicts on hwtest-gtk is versioned, though
[00:41] <cjwatson> Laney: more or less, yes
[00:41] <Laney> we've an irritating situation with ghc6 now where we merged a Debian revision that only corrected DFSG-freeness of GFDL docs
[00:41] <Laney> and now have a load of uninstallable deps
[00:41] <cjwatson> how did that produce uninstallability?
[00:42] <Laney> some libraries have weird deps on ghc6 (< 6.8.2-999)
[00:42] <Laney> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=511756
[00:44] <cjwatson> if you've already gone forward, there is no way to roll that version back such that the dependencies will be happy, regardless of our stance on the GFDL
[00:44] <cjwatson> you'll have to adjust the packages with the dependencies
[00:45] <Laney> yeah, I was just seeking clarification on if it was necessary in the first place
[00:45] <Laney> I realise that we're committed now
[00:45] <cjwatson> from the Debian bug, it looks as if fixes are available in unstable?
[00:45] <Laney> yes
[00:45] <cjwatson> not strictly, although we'd presumably have ended up with it at some point in a merge anyway
[00:45] <Laney> just a bit of busy work
[00:45] <cjwatson> it's not usually worth reverting a package split in Ubuntu
[00:59] <billisnice> does anyone know how to install the codec on 9.04 like the ones at http://www.ubuntugeek.com/install-mplayer-and-multimedia-codecs-libdvdcss2w32codecsw64codecs-in-ubuntu-810-intrepid-ibex.html
[01:08] <maxb> billisnice: #ubuntu-devel is emphatically not a support channel, and you asked and got an answer in #ubuntu+1. If you didn't like the answer, then follow up there.
[01:08] <billisnice> ok
[01:08] <billisnice> did not know
[01:08] <billisnice> thanks
[01:08] <maxb> Channels have topics for a reason
[01:20]  * cjwatson saves lots of time clicking on LP bug tasks to set them all to fix-released, on a bug with 14 tasks
[01:20] <cjwatson> >>> bug = launchpad.load('https://api.edge.launchpad.net/beta/bugs/309435')
[01:20] <cjwatson> >>> for x in bug.bug_tasks:
[01:20] <cjwatson> ...     if x.status != 'Fix Released':
[01:20] <cjwatson> ...             x.transitionToStatus(status='Fix Released')
[01:20] <cjwatson> ...
[01:21] <LaserJock> cjwatson: nifty
[01:41] <CyL> Would someone please recommend a good IDE for ubuntu (C ansi)?
[01:42] <LaserJock> anjunta or eclipse
[01:43] <LaserJock> and asking #ubuntu would probably be better
[01:43] <CyL> LaserJock: thanks and sorry
[01:43] <LaserJock> np
[02:28] <DGMurdockIII> (doctormo): hi
[02:28] <DGMurdockIII> (doctormo): you still here
[02:29] <DGMurdockIII> (doctormo): if you go there http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9400m_g_us.html click buy now you will see who is using them
[02:57] <doctormo> that was odd, I don't think he meant me
[04:02] <calc> ugh i think i'm getting beaten on by the iowait issue in the kernel again :\ i wish that bug would get fixed already
[04:03] <calc> nothing much is using cpu except in iowait but i can barely use vmware
[04:49] <Hydrant> Hi all, how can I tell what compiler was used to compile an Ubuntu package?
[04:49] <Hydrant> I need to use the exact same compiler, and perhaps flags for something
[04:50] <stdin> look at the build log for the package
[04:51] <stdin> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/<release>/+source/<source package>/+builds
[04:51] <stdin> but it'll usually be the same version that apt-get install gcc gets for you
[04:52] <Hydrant> mabye it's a library linking error or something, I'll check that log thanks
[05:09] <cody-somerville> Hydrant, if you gave more context to your problem, someone might be able to help you.
[05:12] <Hydrant> I can't get exception handling to work properly in an OpenOffice add-in I'm writing, and this may be due to me using a different compiler
[05:12] <Hydrant> I'm trying some workarounds now
[05:13] <calc> Hydrant: you may want to test against the official openoffice.org as well, its always possible you are seeing a bug in Ubuntu's version :-\
[05:13]  * calc <- maintains OOo for Ubuntu
[05:14] <Hydrant> it's a pain... I've tested that I can just throw an exception, and it will never get caught, OOo will just die instead
[05:14] <Hydrant> http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=14568
[05:14] <Hydrant> it seems there was a fix for this a while ago, I'll try official ooo
[05:15] <Hydrant> calc: where do I get the official binary?
[05:15] <Hydrant> you mean the debs from oo's site?
[05:16] <Hydrant> nm, that was just for OO3
[05:17] <calc> Hydrant: http://openoffice.org/ :)
[05:17] <calc> Hydrant: yea they have debs there i think
[05:17] <calc> Hydrant: linux dists patch OOo heavily and sometimes break things
[05:18] <Hydrant> why does every distro patch everything so much anyways
[05:18] <Hydrant> never understood that
[05:18] <Hydrant> other than everyone having their own paths
[05:19] <calc> Hydrant: linux dists use go-oo.org due to issues surrounding OOo, pretty much all linux dists have the same patches its just all different from upstream OOo
[05:20] <calc> there are something like 600 patches to upstream OOo
[05:21] <LaserJock> hmm, cheese finally works, but now everything has a green tint
[05:21] <LaserJock> green cheese, ewww :(
[05:22] <calc> lol
[05:23]  * kees needs a way better webcam
[05:24]  * calc wonders why cheese isn't in standard Ubuntu desktop
[05:24] <LaserJock> hmm, so gstreamer-properties gives me the same green tint when it didn't before
[05:24] <calc> seems like something that would be good to have since most laptops have webcams now
[05:24] <LaserJock> so maybe it's not cheese's fault
[05:24] <calc> LaserJock: did you paint your lens green?
[05:25] <LaserJock> .... I don't think so :-)
[05:25] <calc> heh
[05:25] <LaserJock> I can actually see when it first starts up its got the right color
[05:25] <LaserJock> just for a split second
[05:25] <LaserJock> then it "adjusts" to the green
[05:31] <ScottK> Isn't Gnome's color green?
[05:31] <ScottK> Maybe it's a feature.
[05:31] <LaserJock> perhaps
[05:31] <LaserJock> but it worked just fine in gutsy and hardy
[07:20] <seektherapy> I have a problem and no one in the Ubuntu support channel can help me .. Figured since you guys say you developed this OS you could help me
[07:31] <Chipzz> no
[07:32] <Chipzz> no-one in ubuntu knowing is still not a valid reason for asking here
[07:32] <seektherapy> Jesus christ people !! did y'all create the OS or not
[07:33] <seektherapy> and its not just me either
[07:33] <seektherapy> personally i think its a developer problem
[07:33] <Chipzz> seektherapy: channel rules. plain and simple
[07:35] <Chipzz> there are other ways of getting support. the forums, and filing a launchpad support ticket for example
[07:36] <seektherapy> Chipzz: i am actually very new at the OS .. One reason why woman do not find it user friendly
[07:37] <seektherapy> I am lucky to have found this channel
[07:37] <Chipzz> we, otoh, are not so lucky :P
[07:37] <Chipzz> seektherapy: look, plain and simple, like I said: the rules are there for everyone, that includes you
[07:38] <seektherapy> huh ? you made a statement and i responded
[07:38] <Chipzz> if everyone started thinking like you, the devs would be spending all their time giving user support instead of actually developping
[07:38] <stdin> !support
[07:39] <seektherapy> I am in the channel
[07:42] <seektherapy> I was told sound is hard to troubleshoot ..maybe because its underdeveloped ??
[07:43] <stdin> no really
[07:43] <stdin> *not
[07:43] <stdin> it's just difficult to troubleshoot
[07:43] <Chipzz> it's a sunday. most of the devs are not here anyway
[07:43] <Chipzz> !weekend
[07:46] <seektherapy> whats  better channel to ask other than the ubuntu
[07:46] <Chipzz> seektherapy: anyway, like I just told you: if no-one in ubuntu know, you can ask in the forums, are file a launchpad support ticket
[07:47] <Chipzz> s/ubuntu know/#ubuntu knows
[07:47] <Chipzz> s/are file/or file/
[07:50] <seektherapy> wonders how long dell will promote Ubuntu with this kind of bad attitude
[07:52] <seektherapy> waste of time...bye
[07:52] <stdin> there are other avenues of support you can take, it's your choice to take them or not. please do not insult us for nothing
[07:54] <seektherapy> and i am trying to bring up a good point and its falling on deaf ears..Just google Ubuntu and soud card probles.. its a huge problem and not by the users
[07:55] <stdin> google any distro and "sound card problems" and you'll see the same, it's more global than Ubuntu
[07:55] <seektherapy> i mean only one user
[08:09] <seektherapy> stdin: you may want to book mark this page
[08:09] <seektherapy> http://connect.creativelabs.com/linux/default.aspx
[08:10] <stdin> why?
[08:10] <seektherapy> its a popular sound card that has a linux driver
[08:11] <stdin> ok, and?
[08:11] <seektherapy> you would know how to configure and install but i probably wont be able too.. maybe i am wrong but i thought developers strived to make an OS user friendly?
[08:12] <stdin> I'm still wondering what this has to do with me? drivers are to do with the kernel
[08:13] <seektherapy> oh...so is there a Ubuntu kernel channel
[08:14] <Chipzz> work is continuously being done to make the OS more user-friendly. and the less time the devs have to spend giving support, the more time they have to actually DO that
[08:15] <seektherapy> and they do have a kernal channel.. i bet i see one of you guys in there
[08:15] <stdin> the kernel channel is no more a support channel than this
[08:16] <stdin> and finding beta drivers for one card is nothing to do with making the OS user friendly
[08:16] <Chipzz> seektherapy: I'm starting to loose my patience, really
[08:16] <Chipzz> seektherapy: we already told you what the correct support avenues are. why don't you just follow these and stop wasting all of our time?
[08:17] <Chipzz> 08:35 < Chipzz> there are other ways of getting support. the forums, and filing a launchpad support ticket for example
[08:17] <Chipzz> 08:46 < Chipzz> seektherapy: anyway, like I just told you: if no-one in ubuntu know, you can ask in the forums, are file a launchpad support ticket
[08:18] <seektherapy> then dont read what i write... i have never addressed you.. Plus i am probably old enough to be your mother
[08:18] <Chipzz> and you still lack basic reading comprehension skills :)
[08:18] <Chipzz> rofl :)
[08:18] <seektherapy> thats it
[08:19] <seektherapy> does your mother know Ubuntu?
[08:19] <seektherapy> rofl...doubt it
[08:19] <stdin> Chipzz: please don't antagonise people, it's against the CoC
[08:19] <Chipzz> I don't see what my mother has to do with all this :)
[08:19] <Chipzz> stdin: luckily I never signed it, then :)
[08:19] <seektherapy> i didnt he did
[08:20] <stdin> Chipzz: it's a rule of the #ubuntu channels that the CoC be followed, and against the IRC guidelines as set out by the IRC CC anyway
[08:21] <seektherapy> some of you boys need to understand.. this doesnt come easy to older people.. ay least i am trying to learn..you know?
[08:21] <Chipzz> seektherapy: yes, and you can learn on the forums
[08:21] <Chipzz> 4th time
[08:22] <seektherapy> Chipzz"s: mom is probbably a very nice women and would be ashamed to see him acting like this
[08:22] <stdin> seektherapy: #ubuntu is the place to ask on IRC
[08:22] <stdin> please keep personal attacks out of this channel
[08:22] <seektherapy> yah, i am wasting my time in herr
[08:23] <seektherapy> that wasnt personal
[08:23] <stdin> whatever you consider it
[08:23] <seektherapy> it ws a general comment
[08:24] <stdin> even if you don't consider it a personal attack, it's completely off topic for this channel
[08:24] <seektherapy> he started it
[08:24] <seektherapy> ok..ok.. now you are making me feel like a child
[08:24] <stdin> that is never an excuse
[08:25] <seektherapy> i do need to go
[08:26] <seektherapy> thanks for all the support, encouragment and help.. i am forever greatful
[08:26] <seektherapy> goodbye ...bitter developers
[08:26] <stdin> if you have no further business in this channel, please part
[08:27] <seektherapy> learn to read std
[08:27] <stdin> heh
[08:28]  * Chipzz wonders why some ppl feel better than others, because the channel rules appear to not apply to them
[08:29] <Chipzz> I wonder why this channel is not set +s anyway, to prevent users from "finding" it
[08:29] <stdin> because we like to be transparent
[08:29] <Chipzz> anyone who has any business here will/should be smart enough to find it regardless
[08:30] <pwnguin> if you set it to +s you get a secret code of silence
[08:30] <Chipzz> stdin: +s doesn't technically prevent anyone from joining, it only prevents the channel fmor appearing in the output of /list
[08:30] <Chipzz> which IMO would be a very good thing
[08:31] <stdin> all someone would have to do is ask "where is the development channel" in #ubuntu and +s is pointless
[08:31] <Chipzz> "Hrrrm I didn't get any support in #ubuntu ... Let's see what other channels there are. Oh there's #ubuntu-dev, the ppl there will likely help me!"
[08:31] <stdin> besides, most people who join here are not insane :)
[08:31] <StevenK> No, but it helps ...
[08:32] <stdin> people who join are mostly sane. people who idle here are mostly not
[08:32] <Chipzz> stdin: ppl in #ubuntu in 99.99% of the cases have no reason to refer anyone here
[08:32] <Chipzz> stdin: did you just call me insane? :) and isn't that a violation of the CoC? ;)
[08:33] <stdin> no, it's not an attack, as I love the insane :)
[08:34] <Chipzz> then again, I didn't call it an attack, I called it an insult :)
[08:36] <stdin> potAYto/potAHto
[08:37] <stdin> proof I'm insane, I choose text to convey a spoken difference in words
[08:37] <calc> lovely i'm getting ICE in gcc now
[08:37]  * calc isn't sure whether he hopes it is his pc having problems or the compiler
[08:38] <Chipzz> calc: your pc would be the obvious choice as that would limit the problem to 1 pc ;)
[08:38] <calc> ICE on compiling OOo on amd64 jaunty :-\
[08:38] <calc> Chipzz: yea, but that would still suck for me, heh
[08:39] <calc> i'll have to build a chroot on my laptop to test it out later i'm going to bed now
[08:39] <Chipzz> that it would
[08:39] <Chipzz> gn!
[09:39] <calc> doko_: ping
[10:08]  * Hobbsee sighs, and speaks to seektherapy
[10:10] <directhex> something amiss, sarah?
[10:11]  * calc heads back to bed
[10:11]  * calc hopes the new g++ building now fixes the weird ice he got on OOO
[11:15] <rzr> cjwatson: hi , about moving tuxguitar to universe, is this because it's free now ? can I help since i am the maintainer
[11:16] <pitti> directhex: poke back
[11:16] <rzr> cjwatson: well i am not motu i guess no
[11:18] <rzr> whois nijaba
[12:22] <Chipzz> !weekend | rzr
[12:22] <Chipzz> !motu | rzr
[12:22] <Chipzz> rzr: #ubuntu-motu is probably what you want
[12:22] <Chipzz> rzr: #ubuntu-dev normally is only about packages that are in main
[12:23] <rzr> Chipzz: ubottu : happy new chinnease year , dont trust other 2009 is the year of pinguin !
[12:24] <Chipzz> rzr: ubottu is a bot and hence won't care much for your wishes ;)
[12:24] <Chipzz> and: thank you :)
[12:25] <rzr> BTW i came here just after i got a LP mail alert about tuxguitar
[12:25] <rzr> well i'll stay here roaming
[13:15] <rzr> cjwatson: actually u released it :) thx
[13:55] <Hydrant> calc: hey
[14:48] <LordMetroid> If I want to write an software installer, can one access the repositories and fetch whatever requirements necessary that isn't already fulfilled instead of just telling the user "requires glib >= version x"?
[14:49] <cjwatson> rzr: yeah, I don't think any help is needed for that bug, I was just acting on a request to move the package to a different component since as you say it only uses free Java now
[14:50] <cjwatson> rzr: BTW, I know nothing about tuxguitar; I was just the ftpmaster on duty and there's probably not much point talking to me about the details of the package :-)
[14:50] <cjwatson> LordMetroid: that's what apt does
[14:50] <cjwatson> (unless your system is in a broken state of some kind)
[14:52] <LordMetroid> I know apt does that... Can I use apt as a part of my own installer though?
[14:54] <cjwatson> apt is a library as well as a program, and has things like Python bindings (the python-apt package), so in principle yes, though of course it depends on the details
[14:54] <directhex> isn't packagekit meant to abstract it so you can use the same code on fedora, suse, etc?
[14:55] <LordMetroid> Hmm, that sounds mighty intersting...
[14:56] <directhex> i think that's how gstreamer (or perhaps totem) handles codec installation. and possibly abiword for fonts, judging by these screenshots
[14:57] <cjwatson> planned to but doesn't yet
[14:58] <cjwatson> but yes, it probably should. The main outstanding problem with packagekit is that it can't cope with debconf at all - we need to marshal the debconf protocol over dbus or something
[14:58] <LordMetroid> Promising, I am hoping to create a software installer program that can be used to allow people to write commercial software and have the average Joe user be able to install it on his system without trouble, I think that is mainly what is holding adaption for the Linux desktop back
[14:59] <LordMetroid> My own goals are in indie games though'
[14:59] <directhex> doesn't icculus' replacement for loki installer do that?
[15:00] <LordMetroid> icculus?
[15:01] <LordMetroid> Google isn't very helpful on icculus
[15:01] <LordMetroid> ahh, the software developer
[15:01] <cjwatson> LordMetroid: you mean like gdebi?
[15:01] <directhex> mojosetup
[15:02] <cjwatson> the problem is not that there is no way to install commercial software without trouble
[15:02] <cjwatson> the problem is that there are *too many* different ways
[15:02] <directhex> cjwatson, he's writing a distro-agnostic .bin installer, and asking about package manager integration to install the app's deps during install
[15:03] <cjwatson> sure, and tools exist for that as well
[15:03] <cjwatson> but not every software vendor delivers their package in any one single format
[15:04] <LordMetroid> any one single format?
[15:04] <cjwatson> realistically, the choices are (a) deliver packages in a few choices of distro-specific packaging (b) deliver LSB packages (I think we can install those without too much pain, but it might be worth looking at streamlining that process)
[15:05] <cjwatson> ".bin" is meaningless as a format. It's usually a self-extracting executable of some kind that rarely has any parseable dependency information
[15:05] <LordMetroid> I was thinking, compiling everything on system and fetching all that is necessary
[15:05] <cjwatson> I would recommend producing LSB packages instead
[15:05] <directhex> LordMetroid, xfce installer
[15:05] <cjwatson> at least that way you aren't sailing against the wind
[15:05] <cjwatson> at all costs, do not invent your own format
[15:05] <directhex> LordMetroid, the xfce4 installer downloads & compiles things, if you want that route
[15:06] <LordMetroid> ok
[15:07] <cjwatson> look up the LSB Package API
[15:08] <cjwatson> though also bear in mind opinions of qualified people who've looked at it :-) http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/06/24/lsb-package-api/
[15:08] <LordMetroid> I will keep that in mind...
[15:09]  * cjwatson tries to find an actual real-world LSB package to test-install
[15:09] <LordMetroid> I am mainly concerned about how to create an installer that will install my software without hurdles for the user to jump over
[15:10] <cjwatson> the worst thing anyone can do at this point is to develop yet another installer that tries to be generic but in reality only really supports their corner of the world
[15:10] <directhex> LordMetroid, can't beat real distro packages, really
[15:10] <cjwatson> since there are two possible existing approaches you can use (distribute distro packages, or distribute LSB packages), it seems foolish to invent another one
[15:11] <directhex> LordMetroid, some ISVs opt to include the kitchen sink in their packages & install somewhere "safe", as a way to avoid the dep question
[15:11] <LordMetroid> ok
[15:12] <directhex> not that that's ideal either
[15:12] <directhex> i like the approach where an isv has some distro repos, e.g. opera. then again, that leads to the "how to add a repo" question which only suse handles gracefully
[15:13] <LordMetroid> The problem I bumped into was that I am using bluecove for the Java Bluetooth API, which required a fresh compile in order to work properly on my system(same problem which occured on a friend of mine's system)
[15:13] <rzr> cjwatson: ok acknowledge
[15:20] <gordonjcp> hi
[15:21] <gordonjcp> is there a good way of detecting if a package is being compiled under Ubuntu?
[15:22] <gordonjcp> some sort of autotools thing, but what should I be testing for?
[15:23] <directhex> gordonjcp, lsb tools
[15:24] <cjwatson> test "$(lsb_release -is 2>/dev/null)" = Ubuntu
[15:24] <directhex> gordonjcp, lsb_rewhat cjwatson said
[15:24] <gordonjcp> directhex: basically I need to detect if someone is trying to compile on Ubuntu, and apply a bunch of workarounds
[15:25] <gordonjcp> and maybe also warn them not to attempt it on Ubuntu ;-)
[15:25] <directhex> gordonjcp, i use lsb_release to detect whether a package is being compiled on debian or ubuntu to pick between installation folders based on local distro things
[15:25] <gordonjcp> okay
[15:26]  * directhex wonders how much longer he's gonna be waiting for debian NEW
[15:26] <gordonjcp> ideally I'd like it if Ubuntu supported USB MIDI properly in the -rt kernel, but since no-one seems keen to make it happen I need to warn users about possible brokenness
[15:55] <Adri2000> kees: I updated my MoM branch with better escaping and file locking - if you could take a look... :)
[16:28] <Keybuk> I swear, I spend more time chasing valgrind bugs/issues than real ones
[16:31] <mib_pt8tdy91> hi
[16:44] <kees> Adri2000: sure, yeah.  I've added it to my todo list
[16:56] <calc> Hydrant: eh?
[17:18] <slytherin> Hi, is anyone looking into FTBFS of xorg-xserver on non i386/amd64 arch?
[17:51] <cody-somerville> Is there a definition/criteria of what a release critical bug is anywhere?
[17:52] <pochu> cody-somerville: for Debian?
[17:52] <cody-somerville> sure, I'm just looking for examples
[17:53] <pochu> cody-somerville: severity >= serious (so serious, grave and critical)
[17:53] <cody-somerville> pochu, I'm more looking for the criteria a bug has to meet to be given that severity
[17:53] <pochu> ah
[17:53] <Keybuk> we don't have any formal criterion
[17:53] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: http://release.debian.org/lenny/rc_policy.txt
[17:54] <Keybuk> other than "someone says so, and slangasek doesn't disagree"
[17:54] <pochu> cody-somerville: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Developer also explains the severities
[17:54] <cody-somerville> thanks :)
[17:54] <cody-somerville> much appreciated pochu, cjwatson, and Keybuk
[17:54] <Keybuk> informally, things are release critical if they're broken and something we consider essential
[17:54] <Keybuk> if OpenOffice didn't work, that would be RC
[17:58] <calc> heh
[18:10] <slytherin> need a bit help please. I am using jaunty latest and permissions are broken for /dev/null, /dev/urandom, /dev/tty*
[18:14] <directhex> sounds like udev being started twice
[18:14] <directhex> at a guess
[18:15] <directhex> look in /etc/rc.d/ for stray udevs
[18:15] <slytherin> directhex: let me take a look
[18:18] <slytherin> directhex: doesn't look to be the case
[18:18] <directhex> hm, okay, that's what caused it for me last time
[18:18] <cjwatson> slytherin: invocations of 'udevadm trigger' are known to cause this; see Scott's recent post to ubuntu-devel
[18:19] <cjwatson> slytherin: you'll probably need to reboot to sort it out all the way, I suspect
[18:19] <cjwatson> slytherin: but it would be worth trying to figure out what caused the trigger
[18:19] <cjwatson> (dkms is one culprit that's already been identified and (mostly) fixed)
[18:20] <slytherin> cjwatson: reboot doesn't help. In fact the current kernel (2.6.27) is not booting at all. I am booting 2.6.25
[18:20] <cjwatson> wow, no idea, you need Keybuk
[18:20] <directhex> and a beer, i suspect
[18:23] <slytherin> So I guess this is the root cause of all other problems.
[18:28] <Turl> hello
[18:28] <Turl> any idea how can I create a ppa for my team?
[18:28] <pochu> Turl: you want #launchpad
[18:29] <cjwatson> launchpad.net/~team-name/+activate-ppa
[18:29] <cjwatson> it's shown in the UI
[18:29] <Turl> pochu: they don't speak at #launchpad :p
[18:29] <Turl> cjwatson: thanks :)
[18:31] <slytherin> cjwatson: any idea where should i look for problem?
[18:39] <slytherin> or how can I remove the triggers that are causing the permission problems?
[18:40] <slytherin> and lastly how can I fix the boot of linux-image 2.6.27?
[18:40] <directhex> grep -r udevadm /etc!
[18:41] <kees> win 32
[18:41] <kees> erk
[18:42] <slytherin> directhex: something called mouseemu in /etc/rc* has udevadm.
[18:42] <directhex> o_o
[18:59] <calc> does evolution do regex match?
[18:59] <calc> er for filtering?
[18:59] <calc> i have some launchpad rationale's that are like Subscriber (foo) @bar
[18:59] <calc> and then some that just have Subscriber @bar
[19:00] <calc> so i need it to ignore the (foo) part and just match all of them
[19:02] <calc> would that be Subscriber.*@bar ?
[19:07] <mabafu> hi there
[19:07] <mabafu> anybody listening?
[19:09] <mabafu> I would like some hints on ubuntu development...
[19:11] <cjwatson> slytherin's gone, but mouseemu only does udevadm settle, which is OK
[19:11] <cjwatson> mabafu: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment should help you
[19:12] <mabafu> tks cjwatson
[20:11] <rexbron> Hi, would I be able to get a core-dev to take a peak at bug 311804?
[20:15] <tilgovi> anyone have any tips for how to use git with ubuntu packages for kernel
[20:15] <tilgovi> I feel like I can never cleanly merge because make-kpkg dumps that debian directory in my source tree
[20:15] <zul> tilgovi: check the wiki there is loads of information there
[20:15] <tilgovi> am I missing something?
[20:16] <tilgovi> zul, I'll do more reading, but I thought maybe someone would have a quick, stupid answer for that
[20:16] <rexbron> tilgovi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam should have the required info
[20:16] <zul> tilgovi: the kernel package doesnt use make-kpkg afaik
[20:16] <dtchen> you'd want to read debian/rules more carefully
[20:17] <tilgovi> dtchen: thanks
[20:20] <tilgovi> rexbron, that's very helpful, thanks. I'm understanding better now.
[20:36] <bmhm> Hi, I need a quick hint with pbuilder: http://paste.ubuntuusers.de/393885/
[21:30] <cjwatson> bmhm: I'm not sure what we're meant to be looking for - there's no error in that paste as far as I can see
[21:31] <bmhm> oh wait a sec
[21:31] <bmhm> old log
[21:31] <bmhm> http://paste.ubuntuusers.de/393888/
[21:31] <bmhm> line 1068
[21:32] <calc> how do you write a regex to not match if a character exists?
[21:33] <bmhm> grep -v ^^
[21:34] <bmhm> well its [^a] for not matching a
[21:34] <calc> ok
[21:34] <bmhm> ^a would be lines beginning with a, common pitfall
[21:35] <calc> basically i want a regex that matches for "Assignee blah" except when there is a @ eg "Assignee @ubuntu-laptop"
[21:35] <bmhm> ah i see
[21:36] <calc> so far I have Assignee.* matching for everything but adding [^@] doesn't remove the @ matches
[21:36] <bmhm> well<EMAIL_ADDRESS>should work
[21:36] <bmhm> escape it (\@)
[21:37] <calc> grep -E "Assignee[(^@)].*" then doesn't match even when @ doesn't exist in the line
[21:38] <bmhm> well its not what I said
[21:38] <bmhm> if you use grep try
[21:38] <bmhm> grep -v "Assignee@"
[21:38] <bmhm> or
[21:38] <bmhm> grep -e<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:38] <cjwatson> you don't need to escape @
[21:39] <bmhm> the round brackets are wrong btw
[21:39] <cjwatson> calc: is this procmail?
[21:39] <calc> cjwatson: evolution regex
[21:39] <calc> cjwatson: but can't get it to work even with simple grep
[21:39] <cjwatson> do you know if it supports extended regular expressions or not?
[21:40] <calc> cjwatson: it seems to afaict
[21:40] <cjwatson> I think ^Assignee[^@]+$ is what you want then
[21:40] <calc> ok
[21:40] <cjwatson> or else "Assignee<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:40] <calc> ah that works in grep too :)
[21:40] <calc> thanks
[21:40] <cjwatson> the space there is likely to be important ...
[21:41] <cjwatson> the first ensures that there's no @ anywhere in the line; the second is "Assignee, then space, then any character except @, then any number of characters"
[21:41] <cjwatson> the final .* probably being unnecessary since evolution probably doesn't forcibly anchor the regex to start and end of line
[21:42] <calc> ok
[21:42] <cjwatson> bmhm: looks like the source package doesn't contain po/Makefile.in.in?
[21:45] <bmhm> well yes it does, but it's a symlink
[21:45] <bmhm> anyway, I will try 7.2 instead of the svn
[21:45] <cjwatson> to what?
[21:46] <cjwatson> is it an absolute symlink to /usr/...?
[21:46] <bmhm> to uhm... /usr/...sth about translation/
[21:46] <bmhm> transutil or sth?
[21:46] <cjwatson> then you need to pass --copy to one of the relevant autotools
[21:46] <bmhm> ah
[21:46] <cjwatson> though I didn't think gettext did that nowadays
[21:47] <bmhm> "though I didn't think" ? =)
[21:47] <cjwatson> I think it does it if you explicitly (and unwisely) use the --symlink option
[21:47] <cjwatson> where "you" is perhaps upstream
[21:48] <cjwatson> if it's that way in the upstream package, send them a cluebat :)
[21:48] <bmhm> well I was trying to pass this package to the motu-team
[21:48] <bmhm> or lets say https://edge.launchpad.net/globalmenu
[21:50] <bmhm> I know how to build rpms (we got SLES at work), but I'm new to debs, allthough I use ubuntu for about three years now ^^
[21:51] <cjwatson> this is not really specific to building debs at all
[21:52] <cjwatson> the problem is that the source package you've built (and presumably also the tarball you have) contains a symlink to something not guaranteed to be on the system
[21:52] <bmhm> I see, but copying the file didn't help either
[21:53] <bmhm> well anyway, last try build for today, got to get to bed soon
[21:55] <bmhm> so i am quite sure it's not a problem with the symlink
[22:06] <bmhm> oh well
[22:07] <bmhm> when using pbuilder it says configure: error: The intltool scripts were not found. Please install intltool
[22:07] <ScottK> Then you're missing a build-dep.
[22:07] <bmhm> do i need to recreate source pakage?
[22:07] <bmhm> i just added intltool to debian/control but it didn't help
[22:08] <ScottK> Then you need to rebuild the source package, yes.
[22:08] <bmhm> ok thx a lot
[22:08] <ScottK> debuild -S
[22:08] <bmhm> debuild? I was using pbuilder
[22:08] <bmhm> > sudo pbuilder create *.dsc
[22:08] <jpds> I think he might use debuild to create the source package.
[22:09] <jpds> meant*
[22:09] <bmhm> yeah