[04:40] <FloatingGoat> hello
[04:40] <FloatingGoat> im having trouble with jack
[04:40] <FloatingGoat> on ubuntu 13.04
[04:40] <FloatingGoat> it seems its not overiding pulse


[12:23] <bac> thanks gmb.  fwiw i had tried using person_logged_in and got other issues.  i'll have a look at your branch.
[12:26] <bac> gmb: my problem was i tried using person_logged_in and then passing the principal to create_initialized_view -- you must do both
[12:37] <gary_poster> bac, feature_flag issue is dealt with?  danilos has OCR today, so if you are close to working on the client branch, we should maybe plan for a handoff on danilos' current task, at least if he is not finished by his EoD
[12:41] <danilos> gary_poster, hi, I hope I'll get this done before our meeting even with OCR
[12:41] <gary_poster> cool danilos, np then
[12:43] <bac> gary_poster: yes, i understand now how to get the tests working.  it is now a matter of replicating them across pillars
[12:43] <gary_poster> bac, awesome
[12:43] <bac> several hours work, at least
[12:43] <gary_poster> bac, is there anything that we can share?
[12:43] <bac> gary_poster: may be more trouble than worth
[12:44] <gary_poster> ok bac.  Please keep it in mind in case you discover something that might change your mind
[12:44] <bac> will do
[12:44] <gary_poster> cool
[12:59] <gmb> bac: Glad I could help.
[13:16] <gary_poster> benji, fwiw added another card to FW 2 that you can move to when done with your current bug
[13:16] <gary_poster> probably should be fixed before merging
[13:16] <benji> k
[13:16] <gary_poster> I might take it myself if I get to it
[13:28] <gary_poster> bac, benji, danilos, gmb, mumble/kanban in 2
[13:28] <bac> ok
[13:28] <gmb> ack
[13:29] <gary_poster> someone, what is the easy way to get a url to an object in a differnt pillar than the one you are in now?  There must be an easy way, and I may even have known it at some point...
[13:30] <gmb> gary_poster: You mean a different rootsite? (e.g. code, bugs, answers, etc.)
[13:31] <bac> gary_poster: e.g.  return urlappend(canonical_url(self.context, rootsite='feeds'),
[13:44] <gary_poster> thanks, gmb, btw
[13:44] <gary_poster> for answer :-)
[13:44] <gmb> np
[13:54] <danilos> "subscribe to bug mail" link on lp.dev/firefox has stopped working for me with latest accordionoverlay branch
[13:54] <danilos> is this known or not?
[13:56] <gary_poster> danilos: you need to turn on feature flag.  one sec, will get detail...
[13:56] <danilos> aah
[13:57] <gary_poster> benji, I think that bug is just adding "escape" into a magic point within "render_filter_name" yeah?
[13:57] <gary_poster> advanced-structural-subscriptions.enabled	default	10	on
[13:57] <gary_poster> danilos ^
[13:57] <gary_poster> https://launchpad.dev/+feature-rules
[13:57] <benji> gary_poster: yep; I bet http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/3/api/Escape.html will work
[13:58] <gary_poster><EMAIL_ADDRESS>has privs
[13:58] <danilos> gary_poster, cool, thanks
[13:58] <gary_poster> danilos, np
[13:58] <gary_poster> benji, cool. I wonder what the diff between that and javascript escape is
[13:58] <gary_poster> but anyway
[13:58] <gary_poster> run with the YUI version :-)
[13:59] <benji> actually, Gavin just noted on a related bug (740096) that using Y.Node instead of strings of HTML would fix/avoid this class of problem, so I'm going to try that
[14:00] <gary_poster> ah cool
[14:01] <gary_poster> bug 740096
[14:01] <gary_poster> oh mup, you're never there when I want you
[14:01] <benji> xss vulnerability in new bug subscription overlay; https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/740640
[14:01] <benji> oops, wrong one
[14:01] <benji> when updating a code build recipe json returned isn't escaped; https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/740096
[14:03] <gary_poster> yeah, thank you. https://launchpad.net/bugs/BUG_NUMBER is almost but not quite as fast as mup.
[14:06] <benji> I have a Firefox bookmarklet that lets me type "bug NUMBER" and it takes me to the bug.
[14:13] <gary_poster> ah, nicer
[14:14] <gary_poster> chrome really is noticeably faster for me though.  :-/ FF 4 is better but still there's an appreciable difference.
[14:14] <gary_poster> as an aside about FF :-)
[14:30] <benji> gary_poster: the XSS bug is a bit bigger than just description; it could come from any of the values (if we allow HTML-like values in those fields); should I just do description now and file another bug to determine the scope of the problem/fix the others?
[14:31] <gary_poster> benji, fix that bug, land a branch so I can adjust my code to deal with the change :-P , and add a new card for the other fields and start on that.
[14:31] <gary_poster> no need for a bug IMO
[14:31] <benji> cool
[14:31] <gary_poster> lemme know when it is landed please
[14:32] <benji> k
[14:38] <bac> gary_poster: got a sec?
[14:38] <gary_poster> sure bac
[14:39] <bac> gary_poster: mumbe
[14:39] <bac> l
[14:46] <benji> gary_poster: the XSS problem is even deeper than that, I believe this is really a bug in lazr.restful; investigating now.  I've tried to come up with a hacky solution but can't think of one.  On the other hand, the only change we should have to make to the branch is to use a newer lazr.restful once I fix this.
[14:49] <gary_poster> benji, sounds scary in terms of backwards compatibility
[14:49] <benji> gary_poster: I take it back; the bug is definately in LP; I think I can have a fix shortly.
[14:49] <gary_poster> cool
[14:49] <gary_poster> bac, this is interesting from LEP:
[14:49] <gary_poster> bdmurray: gary_poster: looking again I think bug supervisors can structurally subscribe to distro bugs if a bug supervisor is set
[14:49] <gary_poster> bdmurray: gary_poster: at least that is the way it was when I wrote it
[14:49] <gary_poster> gary_poster: bdmurray, oh? I'm afraid I'm not even sure how bug supervisors fit into it
[14:49] <gary_poster> bdmurray: gary_poster: its only for distributions with bug supervisors set that structural subscriptions are restricted for and they are restricted to the members of the bug supervisor team
[14:50] <gary_poster> bac, so it seems that distributions do not generically enable this functionality, but it is enabled selectively for certain users
[14:51] <gary_poster> if you need more details we will probably have to turn to a bugs team expert
[14:51] <bac> gary_poster: then we may be in good shape, sort of
[14:51] <gary_poster> ok cool
[14:51] <bac> that explains why i don't see it on the bug page
[14:51] <bac> it'll take some finagling to get it to show up properly on the overview page under those conditions
[14:51] <gary_poster> ok
[15:07]  * gary_poster has landed two small branches to ~yellow.  I'd like to make another small change, but that will wait for the XSS work.
[15:30] <gary_poster> bac, did you want me to help?
[15:30] <bac> gary_poster: i do.  sorry for the delay.
[15:30] <gary_poster> np
[15:34] <gary_poster> If you are doing a punchlist item that is supposed to go into the mongo branch and therefore not go through the usual review/landing process, please feel free to use the new "completed punchlist items" column
[15:34] <gary_poster> I should have added that sooner; I forget how mutable the kanban board is
[15:34] <benji> ok, I need a consult; I must be doing something wrong with 740640.  What's happening is that the JSON representation of the bug filters is inserted into a script tag at the bottom of the page.  If the description contains </script><script>DO BAD THINGS</script> then bad things are done...
[15:34] <gary_poster> We'll remove those as soon as we land the mongo branches
[15:35] <benji> ...I expected wrapping the JSON in a CDATA and/or HTML comment would fix that, but it doesn't.
[15:35] <gary_poster> ok, first thought
[15:35] <benji> An we can't just escape the whole string because that will lead to HTML-escaped data getting into the DB (not the right thing to do).
[15:36] <gary_poster> we should disallow funky characters in the names
[15:36] <gary_poster> we do that elsewhere AFAIK
[15:36] <gary_poster> and should do it here for simplicity
[15:36] <gary_poster> that seems to solve the problem quickly and reasonably
[15:38] <benji> gary_poster: yeah, it's reasonable for the short term, but I feel bad leaving it this way in general; we're going to keep getting outselves into this situation and there seems to be a central place to fix it
[15:38] <gary_poster> I wonder if the policy is the right way to fix it thoug
[15:38] <gary_poster> h
[15:38] <gary_poster> you bring up good concerns about escaping
[15:39] <gary_poster> I suppose you could say lazr.restful escapes on the way out and unescapes coming back in
[15:39] <gary_poster> but that's going to be pretty hairy to incorporate is my guess
[15:39] <gary_poster> because nothing expexts the unescaping ATM
[15:39] <gary_poster> expects
[15:39] <gary_poster> even if this were isolated to just the JS bits
[15:40] <benji> right; I have a strong gut feeling that there is a right way to do this that won't affect existing code, but I don't know what it is right now
[15:41] <gary_poster> I don't see it either.  Other problematic variations:
[15:42] <benji> regarding disallowing funky characters: it seems to me that we need to do that at PATCH time, not in the JS (otherwise people can use the web service directly to inject their XSS attack)
[15:42] <gary_poster> lazr.restful (or whatever machinery does this thing for the response cache) pukes if it gets a string that is not safe to put in the browser, unless there is some gesture to escape it.
[15:42] <gary_poster> disallowing funky characters: this needs to be in the server
[15:43] <gary_poster> and then needs validation on the clientside of a similar sort to the thing that we need for tags
[15:44] <gary_poster> so I agree, the only thing in the JS is code to make the error friendly
[15:44] <gary_poster> disallowing funky characters happens in the DB for tags, I've heard
[15:45] <gary_poster> Going that deep is appropriate here too if there is precedence, in fact
[15:45] <gary_poster> Also note that we only render to the page what the server gives us.  When we do a patch, the server gives us back the new representation, and that's what we render
[15:46] <benji> How much time pressure are we under for this fix?  I don't think adding a "be sure strings are browser-safe" to lazr.restful is the right thing to do, but don't know how long it will take to figure out the right thing.
[15:46] <benji> yeah, doing tag-like, DB-level string safety checks might be the best short term thing we can do
[15:47] <gary_poster> benji, yes.  This is what I'd like:
[15:47] <gary_poster> 1) DB-level string safety checks
[15:47] <gary_poster> 2)  JS-level friendliness about it all
[15:48] <bac> gary_poster: email sent
[15:48] <bac> with tasks.  let me know if it doesn't make sense
[15:48] <gary_poster> 3) A bug about the larger problem, if you like.  As I said, my current feeling is that the answer is to typically not allow XSS-type charecters in fields.  I suppose lazr.restful could try to enforce that, but I don't love it
[15:48] <gary_poster> benji, done.
[15:48] <gary_poster> bac, thanks, will read.
[15:49] <benji> gary_poster: sounds good; I'll work on 1 and 2 now (well, and after lunch)
[15:49] <gary_poster> benji, cool
[15:58] <danilos> bac, gary_poster: error handling being pushed right now
[15:59] <danilos> bac, gary_poster: and now done, it should be in ~yellow/launchpad/accordionoverlay
[16:02] <bac> danilos: great
[16:02] <gary_poster> awesome danilos, thanks
[16:11] <bac> gary_poster: ping me before you tackle any of those items
[16:11] <gary_poster> bac, will do.  Branch is built now, and I'm wrapping something else up.  I might have questions for you in just a sec (though if you are going to lunch np)
[16:11] <bac> eating in
[16:12] <gary_poster> k
[16:15] <gary_poster> (pushed another small branch)
[16:16] <danilos> gary_poster, I am looking into lowercase tags stuff, should I switch to something else to help out instead?
[16:17] <gary_poster> danilos, you have about 1:45 left, yeah?
[16:17] <gary_poster> or just :45?
[16:17] <danilos> gary_poster, something like 1h, yeah, but all of tomorrow morning as well :)
[16:18] <gary_poster> danilos, heh, sure.  weellll...benji, you around, by chance?
[16:18] <danilos> gary_poster, there are also small bits like "Unsubscribe" not showing any progress UI and things like that
[16:19] <gary_poster> danilos, please add cards for stuff you see like that
[16:19] <danilos> gary_poster, right, I'll do that
[16:19] <benji> gary_poster: kinda ;)
[16:19] <gary_poster> benji :-) is there anything danilos can do for your task, or should he and I find something else?
[16:20] <benji> gary_poster: well, now that we've identified a course of action, he could persue it; I haven't yet done much discovery on how the tag spellings are enforced
[16:22] <gary_poster> ack benji.  I'll give danilos some options and I'll include that as one of 'em.  I'll let you know on the kanban board and here and stuff.  Thanks
[16:22] <benji> k
[16:22]  * benji returns to making patty melts.
[16:22] <gary_poster> :-)
[16:23] <gary_poster> So, danilos, here are good cards
[16:23] <gary_poster> 740640, FW 2.  Task is to enforce no-scary-XSS-characters in the DB, and figure out a pretty way to display that
[16:23] <gary_poster> That fits in nicely with the tags one
[16:23] <gary_poster> because they are pretty similar
[16:24] <gary_poster> So you could take those two
[16:24] <gary_poster> Or...
[16:24] <gary_poster> You could take 739141 in Quick Jobs
[16:24] <gary_poster> Or...
[16:25] <gary_poster> you could take one of the two bottom cards in FW 1:
[16:25] <gary_poster> Team subscriptions should support a personal opt-out feature, exposed on edit page and unsub-in-anger page
[16:25] <gary_poster> or
[16:25] <gmb> gary_poster: r=me with a couple of tweaks.
[16:25] <gmb> \0\
[16:25] <gmb> Hah.
[16:25] <gmb> It was so hard to review I broke my arm.
[16:25] <gary_poster> I thought it was [gmb covers his ears in pain]
[16:25] <gary_poster> :-)
[16:25] <gmb> :)
[16:25] <gary_poster> great thanks gmb!
[16:25] <gmb> np
[16:25] <gary_poster> danilos: last one: Structural subscription edit/delete page should also allow adds
[16:26] <gmb> I'm going to go and get a very large cup of tea now.
[16:26] <danilos> re 740640, "enforce no-scary-XSS-chars in the DB" means basically entire 740640?
[16:26]  * gmb knows this was just a warm up for the client-side work.
[16:26] <gary_poster> gmb, :-)
[16:27] <gary_poster> danilos, I don't understand question.  740640 means minimally the DB stuff, and I'd like to include JS-prettification too (of a similar sort to the tag approach, whatever that will be).
[16:29] <danilos> gary_poster, right, so my question is: should I consider it a single task, or two separate tasks?
[16:30] <gary_poster> danilos, ok.  up to you.  I won't consider it done (i.e., something we can forget about) until both aspects are done, but we can arrange that a variety of ways.
[16:31] <danilos> gary_poster, right, sounds good
[16:31] <danilos> benji, so it's ok to take the card away from you? :)
[16:31] <gary_poster> cool, danilos.  benji is mking patty melts, don't bother him, it's a dangerous operation. ;-)  He volunteered the idea, so I think it's alright
[16:32] <danilos> heh, ok
[16:32]  * benji runs away from the melted cheese explosion.
[16:33] <gary_poster> :-)
[16:45] <danilos> gary_poster, oh, on the topic of JS prettification, I don't really see what needs doing if we just want to escape stuff so it works
[16:45] <danilos> (works == avoids XSS)
[16:47] <gary_poster> danilos, here's the story.  it's just like with tags.  Let's say I want to make a name that has some unacceptable characters in it (e.g., "importance >= high")
[16:47] <gary_poster> should we communicate that nicely?
[16:48] <gary_poster> or will your new error handling be nice enough that everything will just work?  I suspect that the error communication might need work, but maybe not
[16:48] <danilos> gary_poster, so do we have a rule that some characters are unacceptable? in cases like this (XSS attack protection), that's best done with a white list, but white listing means we also stop people from using all alphabets of the world
[16:50] <gary_poster> danilos, if I were doing it, I probably would have done it with a blacklist, excluding characters that are escaped for HTML.  I agree that a whitelist would be safer.  What do you think?
[16:52] <danilos> gary_poster, well, I wouldn't "exclude" anything, I'd just escape it where appropriate so it never gets executed; I agree that's the least safe of the options (iow, it's easiest to break it), but it does have the benefit of allowing people to have subscriptions named "<important>" if they want to, which would make it much easier to filter on than say just "important"
[16:52] <danilos> gary_poster, or, your example
[16:54] <gary_poster> danilos, the problem is that the values are dumped into the page by lazr.restful with automation.  Changing that behavior is not something that I want to commission right now.
[16:54] <gary_poster> Moreover, we have multiple examples of precedence in LP for this exclusion pattern
[16:55] <danilos> gary_poster, oh, that does sound sucky...
[16:56] <danilos> gary_poster, and did you mean a precedent?
[16:56] <gary_poster> yeah danilos.  ...I actually don't know for sure if I can use precedence in that way :-P
[16:57] <gary_poster> I could have said "multiple precidents" I guess :-)
[16:57] <danilos> heh, yeah
[16:57] <gary_poster> precedents
[16:57] <gary_poster> presidents!
[16:57] <danilos> oh, we've got Putin in Belgrade today, it was a mess getting around the city, half of the streets closed
[16:57] <gary_poster> oh, I bet
[16:58] <danilos> just like it was 6 months ago when we had Hilary Clinton
[16:58] <danilos> it's especially nice since my office is right across the street from the national parliament
[16:58] <danilos> anywaaay
[16:58] <gary_poster> I guess it makes sense that she would get similar treatment
[16:59] <gary_poster> secretary of state is pretty high up
[16:59] <gary_poster> but not as much as pres, of course
[16:59] <danilos> Putin is a prime minister now, I think
[17:00] <danilos> though, not really sure what to do with the XSS stuff; so, basically, your suggestion is to *disallow* all HTML code and alert user of the fact?
[17:00] <gary_poster> yeah
[17:00] <gary_poster> just like with tags
[17:03] <bac> gary_poster: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/412178
[17:03] <_mup_> Bug #412178: Link to subscribe to a project group's bugmail should be on the bugs facet <confusing-ui> <lp-bugs> <ui> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/412178 >
[17:04] <gary_poster> bac, so yay?
[17:05] <bac> gary_poster: there is discussion in the bug about where to put the link
[17:05] <gary_poster> ah, k
[17:05] <bac> it is confusing b/c someone put it there anyway:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bazaar
[17:05] <bac> it is in an odd place
[17:05] <bac> if i can make it work, i'll just keep it in the same odd place for now
[17:06]  * benji looks at the board for another task.
[17:07] <benji> Oh, I was supposed to talk to Leonard again, I'll do that first.
[17:07] <gary_poster> benji, ok, then see the list of things I offered to danilos
[17:07] <benji> k
[17:08] <gary_poster> Team subscriptions should support a personal opt-out feature, exposed on edit page and unsub-in-anger page is a good one, and...
[17:08] <gary_poster> Structural subscription edit/delete page should also allow adds
[17:09] <gary_poster> bac, putting it in a non-weird place is harder?  I.e., like the main page?
[17:09] <gary_poster> Or just needs more thinking?
[17:09] <bac> gary_poster: more thinking.  probably should just create an actions portlet like other pages
[17:10] <bac> but, that's the kind of thing that would possibly give curtis fits -- hard to tell
[17:10] <gary_poster> bac, actions portlet seemed like a reasonable/"obvious" solution to me.  Maybe give Curtis the option, then?
[17:10] <gary_poster> we are on team lead call right now
[17:11] <gary_poster> and he is leader
[17:11] <bac> ok
[17:11] <bac> gary_poster: if i can make it work in the current place i'd like to defer any redesign until all other pillars work
[17:11] <gary_poster> bac, ok, will defer to you.
[17:14] <gary_poster> bac, I tried to look at the tests; I didn't quite understand how to do them yet, but I only stared at them briefly.  I've had a lot of interruptions, and now I want to get the small changes to the server branch done and sent to ec2 (where I suspect there will be problems) after the team lead call before I restart trying to share the task with you.
[17:35] <benji> gary_poster: unless you have another preference, I'll pick 739141 back up
[17:35] <gary_poster> benji, cool
[18:03] <gary_poster> gmb, I don't understand your last comment, actually.  You want a newline somewhere around
[18:03] <gary_poster> 601	+            required=False))
[18:03] <gary_poster> 602	+    @call_with(subscribed_by=REQUEST_USER)
[18:03] <gary_poster> but that kind of export annotation is all over the file without newlines
[18:03] <gary_poster> and they all are pertinent to the method that eventually shows up
[18:04] <gary_poster> so I'm not even quite sure which newline is pertinent.
[18:05] <gary_poster> (i.e., before the @call_with line or after)
[18:05] <gary_poster> I'm guessing before
[18:09] <gary_poster> I'm taking a late lunch.  Back in a abit
[18:31] <bac> gary_poster: here are the changes required to support project groups: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/584427/
[18:31] <bac> i've pushed them to  lp:~bac/launchpad/yellow-accordionoverlay
[18:44] <gmb> gary_poster: Ah, I've made the mistake of thinking that the @call_with is the start of a new decorator stack for a new method. So ignore that.
[19:00] <gary_poster> cool gmb thanks
[19:02] <gary_poster> how much of that is boilerplate, bac?
[19:03] <bac> gary_poster: 68%
[19:03] <gary_poster> :-)
[19:03] <gary_poster> ok
[19:03] <bac> project group is oh so special
[19:03] <bac> just like everything else
[19:03] <gary_poster> heh
[19:03] <bac> gary_poster: we have a problem with some of the "hand constructed" links
[19:04] <bac> they are wrapped as a <tr>.  i had to mark the <tr> as the menu link so that both the text and icon are clickable
[19:04] <gary_poster> Ah I think I understand.
[19:04] <bac> but in doing so, the js-action class is not being properly displayed as green
[19:04] <gary_poster> :-/
[19:04] <gary_poster> can we change in CSS safely, or not so much?
[19:05] <bac> i haven't looked yet.
[19:05] <gary_poster> k
[19:06] <bac> gary_poster: i am going to work on productseries
[19:08] <gary_poster> ok
[19:32] <gary_poster> benji, I'd like to delegate to you :-P .  On the team lead call, in the context of anoter XSS problem, I mentioned the issues you unearthed about lazr.restful and XSS.  Francis asked me to write an email about the issues to start a conversation about the lazr.restful aspects of this.  (Other people may be bringing up XSS but with a different focus.)
[19:32] <gary_poster> I think you'd be a better person to write that email, to be sent to launchpad-dev.  Ideally it would be done before next Wednesday.  You up for that?  If so, I'll add a "quick job" card.
[19:33] <benji> gary_poster: yep, sounds good
[19:33] <gary_poster> cool thank you
[19:33] <benji> with any luck my pending_notifications will have figured it out by then
[19:37] <benji> heh; pending_notifications was supposed to be my subconscious; maybe that means something
[19:49] <gary_poster> lol
[19:50] <gary_poster> bac, I am going to try distributionsourcepackage for lack of any better ideas
[19:51] <bac> ok
[20:18] <gary_poster> bac, is there a reason why you did """def xsubscribe(self):" instead of deleting the subscribe method?
[20:18] <gary_poster> Or, when should I do that?
[20:18] <bac> gary_poster: debug issue. merge again
[20:18] <gary_poster> bac, ack thanks
[20:22] <bac> gary_poster: i've hit a snag testing product series
[20:23] <bac> it was done very similarly to the others.  but in the page template the feature flag is never set.  vexing.
[20:23] <gary_poster> :-/
[20:27] <gary_poster> bac, I'd help if I could.  If I get to the end of mine and you are still stuck I'll stare at it with you.
[20:28] <bac> deal
[20:40] <gary_poster> bac, I have three menus that I changed in the code to conditionally show the new add form, but I can only find two of them throught the UI.  Do you have any strategies to know what is being added where?
[20:40] <bac> gary_poster: three?  what are they?
[20:40] <bac> usually there is just an overview menu and a bugs menu
[20:41] <gary_poster> DistributionSourcePackageOverviewMenu
[20:41] <gary_poster> DistributionSourcePackageBugsMenu
[20:41] <gary_poster> DistributionSourcePackageActionMenu
[20:41] <gary_poster> all three of them had "subscribe"
[20:41] <gary_poster> I guess I grep for the associated interfaces...
[20:42] <gary_poster> ok maybe not
[20:43] <bac> gary_poster: congratulations.  it looks like you found a non-standard one too!
[20:43] <gary_poster> :-)
[20:45] <bac> gary_poster: a quick glance makes me think  DistributionSourcePackageActionMenu and Bugs are the two you want
[20:46] <bac> the OverviewMenu one is a NavigationMenu not an ApplicationMenu
[20:46] <gary_poster> bac, I have no clue about this stuff, but OverviewMenu had "subscribe" in it too...
[20:46] <bac> not that it means anything
[20:47] <bac> gary_poster: yeah, i see it
[20:47] <gary_poster> I don't know what the practical diff is between Nav menu and App menu
[20:47] <bac> gary_poster: but looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/live-boot i don't see anything to do with that menu
[20:47] <gary_poster> This may be my first exposure to the menu system, in fact
[20:47] <gary_poster> other than believing that I've heard Curtis did it
[20:50] <bac> gary_poster: the one you aren't using is used for the links following "This package has"
[20:50] <bac> it should not have a subscribe link in it, i'll bet
[20:51] <bac> gary_poster: does tal:condition="python:" do shortcutting?
[20:51] <bac> can i do tal:condition="python: False and something_that_doesnot_exist"
[20:51] <gary_poster> yes, I am pretty sure so, bac
[20:51] <bac> hmm
[20:51] <bac> i would've thought so too
[20:51] <gary_poster> course you should also be able to do
[20:52] <gary_poster> tal:condition="something_that_doesnot_exist|nothing"
[20:52] <bac> sure
[20:52] <gary_poster> shortcutting is not working?
[20:52] <bac> i actually have another condition that i replaced with False for the example
[20:52] <gary_poster> gotcha
[20:53] <gary_poster> bac, you said, "the one you aren't using is used for the links following "This package has"".  Teaching me to fish, how did you determine that?
[20:53] <bac> by looking at the links it defined and then scouring the page template
[20:54] <gary_poster> heh
[20:54] <gary_poster> the template or the rendered version?
[20:54] <bac> it is the one called view/overview.  the other's use is hidden behind the @@/global-actions
[20:54] <bac> it is WAY more confusing than is sane
[20:55] <bac> menuing is so complicate that i can't ferret out the essential bits from the stuff there only to drive you crazy
[20:56] <bac> i looked at the actual page template
[20:56] <gary_poster> gotcha
[21:03] <gary_poster> so I should try removing subscribe entirely and see what happens, maybe from DistributionSourcePackageActionMenu?  No, that's the one that's used on the right of the main page.  Ah, no it isn't, I see, it is registered against the view, and that's the view/menu you were talking about in the template!
[21:03] <gary_poster> ok...trying to understand where the overview is used now...
[21:03] <gary_poster> (So, yes, I think I should remove it from the ActionMenu, as you suggested initially)
[21:04] <gary_poster> argh!
[21:04] <gary_poster> except that doesn't make any sense!
[21:05] <gary_poster> the template is using open_questions and new_bugs for view:menu
[21:05] <gary_poster> oh, which are available off of DistributionSourcePackageLinksMixin, which is in fact mixed in...
[21:06] <gary_poster> so maybe the entire links collection on DistributionSourcePackageActionMenu is a red herring?
[21:06] <gary_poster> :-(
[21:08] <gary_poster> maybe used by ../templates/distributionsourcepackage-portlet-pub-details.pt ?
[21:08] <gary_poster> trying
[21:09] <gary_poster> no
[21:09] <gary_poster> I'm starting to think that all of the code on that menu class is a red herring
[21:10] <gary_poster> and the only thing it needs is the mixin and the interface declarations.  Going to try it
[21:12] <gary_poster> nope, that removes it from the right hand side :-/
[21:21] <bac> gary_poster: :(
[21:21] <bac> sorry, i wasn't following along at home.  looks entertaining, though
[21:21] <bac> so in my tests, if i get a view and render it to html and then print the html, i always see:
[21:22] <bac>  Features: {'malone.advanced-structural-subscriptions.enabled': None}
[21:22] <bac> regardless of the state of the feature flag i've set.
[21:22] <bac> i find this highly disconcerting
[21:23] <gary_poster> np.  experimentation has proved that (1) DistributionSourcePackageActionMenu's subscribe menu option is the one that is rendered for the overview page; (2) deleting DistributionSourcePackageOverviewMenu's subscribe menu option does not break anything I can see;
[21:23] <gary_poster> (3) deleting *all* links from DistributionSourcePackageOverviewMenu's  does break things; and (4) I don't know what's going on.
[21:23] <gary_poster> I'm going to try remove the other links that don't appear to be used in DistributionSourcePackageOverviewMenu.
[21:24] <gary_poster> well, on the bright side, for yours, you at least know that the feature flag is the problem, bac.  I'd suspect a rogue request replacing the one you think you are using...or Something Else.  Possibly alien in origin.
[21:24] <bac> EXCEPT, the tests behave as expected but for two
[21:25] <gary_poster> :-/
[21:25] <bac> so even though the state is printed as None in the summary, the value appears to be correct when evaluated
[21:25] <bac> figure that one out
[21:26]  * gary_poster whimpers
[21:26] <bac> i wonder if that message is using the db feature flag value and not the one from the fixture?
[21:26] <bac> how could that be?
[21:26] <bac> it can't
[21:26]  * bac tests anyway
[21:26] <gary_poster> k, 'caue I dunno
[21:26] <gary_poster> s
[21:31] <gary_poster> for my mystery, I am changing DistributionSourcePackageOverviewMenu's links = ['subscribe', 'publishinghistory', 'edit', 'new_bugs', 'open_questions']  to links = ['new_bugs', 'open_questions'].  That doesn't appear to change a darn thing.  Then I only change two menus, as I'd expect.
[21:32] <gary_poster> and now for the tests...
[21:33] <bac> gary, could you fix distributionsourcepackage-index.pt
[21:34] <bac> it has malone.advanced-structural-subscriptions.enabled
[21:34] <bac> no
[21:34] <gary_poster> ?
[21:34] <bac> it has           <div class="package-details"
[21:34] <bac>                tal:attributes="id string:pub${pubid}-container" />
[21:34] <bac> which is invalid html markup
[21:34] <bac> div cannot be self-closing
[21:34] <bac> safari just yelled at me
[21:35] <gary_poster> l
[21:35] <gary_poster> k
[21:35] <gary_poster> done
[21:46] <gary_poster> bac, if you have a second to glance over a diff, I will feel comfortable merging this.
[21:46] <gary_poster> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/584506/
[21:46] <gary_poster> I disabled two of the tests
[21:46] <gary_poster> Because distribution source packages do not have owners AFAICT
[21:47] <bac> looks great gary
[21:47] <bac> er, gary_poster
[21:47] <gary_poster> cool thanks bac
[21:47] <gary_poster> I am pinged by gary too
[21:47] <bac> ok
[21:48] <gary_poster> thanks, will merge
[21:48] <bac> gary_poster: are you merging to the yellow branch?
[21:48] <gary_poster> oh, right
[21:48] <gary_poster> there's that
[21:48] <gary_poster> what do you want to do?
[21:48] <bac> gary_poster: why don't you push it and i'll merge into mine
[21:49] <gary_poster> ok
[21:49] <bac> or we could make a new branch on ~yellow
[21:49] <bac> just let me know
[21:49] <gary_poster> I suspect there will be a small conflict with your most recent changes; I'll merge that first
[21:49] <bac> ok
[21:49] <gary_poster> I'm happy either way
[21:50] <gary_poster> ah, no, I was up-to-date
[21:51] <bac> gary_poster: you should check this out from david siegel.  it's a pretty nice reminder to get up and walk around
[21:51] <bac> http://iamfutureproof.com/
[21:51] <bac> it shows i haven't taken a break in 2h29m
[21:51] <bac> so, time for a lap around the yard
[21:51] <gary_poster> cool, bac, thanks!  downloading
[21:53] <gary_poster> I pushed to lp:~yellow/launchpad/accordionoverlay-links bac
[21:54] <gary_poster> Then I did bzr pull --remember lp:~yellow/launchpad/accordionoverlay-links
[21:54] <gary_poster> so I'll pull from there from now on
[21:54] <gary_poster> bac, I'm sorry but I'm going to call it a day
[21:55] <gary_poster> I'll be ready to help out more tomorry morning
[21:55] <gary_poster> bye all


[09:21] <vlt> Hello. How can I re-activate logging to /var/log/boot in Feisty?
[09:22] <AlexExtreme> you can't, logd is broken
[09:22] <AlexExtreme> see https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/98955
[09:22] <vlt> hmmm
[09:23] <vlt> Any idea how to find out then why system boots to runlevel "unknown" only?
[09:23] <AlexExtreme> nope
[09:25] <vlt> AlexExtreme: And any idea how to fix it (maybe something like `dpkg-reconfigure -plow upstart`)?
[09:26] <AlexExtreme> sorry, i'm not really a debian/ubuntu expert (i don't use them, i just use upstart :))
[09:26] <vlt> ok
[01:48] <kylem> /wkU/WIN 30


[19:18] <ibeardslee> morning
[21:03] <olly> morning
[21:12] <mwhudson> morning
[21:14] <hads> morning


[01:13] <cmaloney> Evening
[01:13] <rick_h_> evening
[01:44] <jrwren> evening
[02:52] <cmaloney> I wish this band were Cc-licensed: http://hothmusic.bandcamp.com/album/oathbreaker
[02:52] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/cTJH0H - Oathbreaker | Hoth
[02:54] <cmaloney> It's essentially a concept album about Anakin Skywalker. :)
[10:58] <cmaloney> Good morning
[10:59] <cmaloney> I think I've convinced myself that I don't need Mac address filtering
[10:59] <cmaloney> baby-steps. :)
[11:05] <rick_h_> lol
[11:05] <rick_h_> big move cmaloney
[11:10] <cmaloney> Yeah, it's a huge step
[11:10] <cmaloney> mostly because I'm not too thrilled if I need to get another Wifi router of hand-copying those addresses.
[11:11] <cmaloney> And partially because it's a "shed lock". It doesn't keep anyone out other than honest folk.
[11:15] <cmaloney> Pretty soon I'll be running an open network and frolicking like greg-g. :)
[11:15] <cmaloney> as you do
[11:17] <rick_h_> lol
[11:17] <rick_h_> well just get comcast and they'll public wifi it for you :P
[11:17] <cmaloney> Man that grinds me
[12:08] <jrwren> would you prefer they do it at their pole?
[12:09] <krondor> cmaloney: dd-wrt (or other nice firmware), guest network and private network is what I do
[12:10] <jrwren> the electric company does the same thing technically with their wireless meter reading system. Difference being only the meter person can connect to that wireless access point :)
[12:10] <krondor> cmaloney:  I've also seen some throw a QR code on their fridge that lets devices that can scan it connect to their wifi
[12:11] <krondor> jrwren:  I think that would be preferable in my mind to using my residence or whatever
[12:11] <cmaloney> krondor: Yeah, I might do the tiered networking at some point
[12:12] <cmaloney> krondor: Finally going to be in a house where I have to think about logstics. :)
[12:13] <jrwren> new house?
[12:13] <krondor> if your home ownership is anythign like mine wifi will soon be the least of your logistical worries
[12:13] <cmaloney> Yeah,we're moving this weekend
[12:13] <jrwren> congrats.
[12:13] <cmaloney> krondor: Bah, a boy can dream. :)
[12:13] <cmaloney> jrwren: Thank you.
[12:15] <cmaloney> krondor: I'm able to serve most of the current house from the back of the house.
[12:15] <cmaloney> So I was thinking of using WDS or something similar.
[12:16] <cmaloney> Though finding that WDS is a 50% hit is not making me happy. :)
[12:19] <krondor> yeah WDS can be a mixed bag and it meshes over wifi so you lose capacity, and it's very dependent on like for like APs.
[12:19] <brousch__> I bought some ubiquity WAPs. They should arrive soon
[12:19] <cmaloney> yeah. The previous owners had a lot of coax throughout the house, so there's already holes in the floor.
[12:21] <krondor> if you run the ethernet you could just do more APs with the same SSIDs. Versus WDS you can have some issues with sticky connections though
[12:21] <krondor> that is a device holding on to a weaker AP signal instead of hopping to the stronger one closer to it
[12:21] <cmaloney> Ah, so similar to "work". ;)
[12:21] <krondor> like such; http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Wireless_Access_Point
[12:21] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/JUDZ - Wireless access point - DD-WRT Wiki
[12:22] <krondor> like minds :)
[12:22] <cmaloney> bookiebot is a bot. :)
[12:22] <cmaloney> .echo Hi krondor
[12:22] <bookiebot> Hi krondor
[12:22] <krondor> ugh it's early where's my coffee
[12:22] <cmaloney> ;)
[12:23] <cmaloney> Ok, off to work and such.
[12:23] <cmaloney> brb.
[13:39] <cmaloney> Good morning again. ;)
[13:54] <mrgoodcat> and to you
[13:54] <mrgoodcat> i missed a lot of conversation this morning it looks like
[15:39] <cmaloney> Yeah, it's a momentous occasion
[15:40] <greg-g> cmaloney: buying a house?
[15:40] <cmaloney> greg-g: Long story, but moving into a bigger house.
[15:40] <greg-g> coolio
[15:40] <cmaloney> yeah
[15:40] <cmaloney> We won't have our Japanese Knotweed collection.
[15:46] <brousch__> A bigger house? with room for children?
[15:46] <cmaloney> And room under the floorboards
[15:46] <cmaloney> hint hint
[15:46] <cmaloney> Actually we'll have room for children. With a padlock.
[15:47] <brousch__> Why would you give a child a padlock?
[15:47] <cmaloney> So they can lock themselves in the room.
[19:33] <greg-g> cmaloney: so, on this esoteric topic again: what is a simple, easy to use, but also useful local Logitech Media player? One I can install on my laptop, point it at an IP, and play my music?
[19:33] <greg-g> I guess I've never been happy with 'em ;)
[19:34] <brousch__> logitech?
[19:34] <cmaloney> squeezelite?
[19:34] <greg-g> yeah
[19:34] <cmaloney> That's what I use.
[19:34] <greg-g> kk
[19:34] <cmaloney> There's Squeezeslave, but it is locked to 44.1khz
[19:35] <cmaloney> Squeezelite has no interface so you'll need to control it via other means.
[19:35] <greg-g> hmm, squeezelite is headless? Have to control it via the LMS itself?
[19:35] <cmaloney> let me share you my script.
[19:35] <cmaloney> Yeah
[19:35] <cmaloney> Which is a "good thing"
[19:35] <greg-g> that's fine, i just setup a home vpn
[19:35] <greg-g> oh?
[19:35] <greg-g> why?
[19:35] <cmaloney> squeezeslave has a curses client
[19:35] <greg-g> I want, basically, the Squeeebox Touch on my laptop
[19:36] <cmaloney> reason I think squeezelite headless with LMS web page is better is because the LMS web page can do everything
[19:36]  * greg-g ponders setting up a craiglist search for another one, just in case
[19:36] <greg-g> gotcha
[19:36] <cmaloney> Yeah, tell me about it
[19:37] <cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7660010/
[19:37] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/HURVEi - Ubuntu Pastebin
[19:37] <cmaloney> That's the script that I use for my work Squeezelite.
[19:38] <cmaloney> I run a SSH tunnel so port :9000 and :3483 are pointing at localhost
[19:39] <cmaloney> -z is "daemonize"
[19:40] <greg-g> I don't hear anything
[19:41] <cmaloney> You might want to try running it without -z for now to see if there's any output
[19:41] <greg-g> none
[19:41] <cmaloney> -d all
[19:43] <cmaloney> Bah, later version of Squeezelite needs -s for the server.
[19:44] <greg-g> this is connecting
[19:44] <greg-g> LMS thinks it's controlling it
[19:44] <greg-g> http://paste.debian.net/105524/
[19:45] <cmaloney> Did you select it as a player? :)
[19:45] <greg-g> yeah
[19:46] <greg-g> I just switched to a flac file from mp3 and see:
[19:46] <greg-g> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
[19:46] <greg-g> Server: Logitech Media Server (7.7.3 -<PHONE_NUMBER>)
[19:46] <greg-g> Connection: close
[19:46] <greg-g> Content-Type: audio/x-flac
[19:46] <greg-g> in the debug
[19:46] <greg-g> i just don't hear anythig
[19:46] <cmaloney> Vol / mute?
[19:46] <greg-g> gah!
[19:46] <cmaloney> heh
[19:47] <greg-g> my sound output was set to headphones, for some weird reason
[19:47] <cmaloney> I know that sound. :)
[19:47] <cmaloney> But yeah, Squeezelite has active development
[19:47] <cmaloney> and frankly not having to keep another terminal window open == a
[19:47] <cmaloney> a+
[19:48] <cmaloney> Chances are you'll have a browser open anyway.
[19:48] <greg-g> :)
[19:48] <greg-g> true
[19:49] <cmaloney> That's pretty much how I ran Squeezeslave.
[19:49] <cmaloney> unfortunately things like TWIT and WRCJ would sound like drunken chipmunks.
[19:50] <greg-g> twit *isn't* a bunch of drunken chipmunks?
[19:50]  * greg-g just walked by their office this morning, in fact
[19:51] <cmaloney> There's some Java interfaces that mimic the classic Squeezebox interface but they're kind of a pain to use, and don't sound as good
[19:51] <cmaloney> hah
[19:51] <cmaloney> http://sourceforge.net/projects/softsqueeze/files/softsqueeze/
[19:51] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/N8lene - Softsqueeze - Browse /softsqueeze at SourceForge.net
[19:53] <greg-g> :)
[19:53] <greg-g> that's as old as the dark them I used last night that totally broke
[19:56] <cmaloney> Yeah. It was one of the first things that I tried
[19:56] <cmaloney> then I found squeezeslave, and finally squeezelite.
[19:57] <greg-g> and squeezelite is in debian, so, yay
[19:58] <cmaloney> Yeah. If I could figure out how to have it do something sane on @reboot I'd never have to manually run "ru_squeezelite" again
[19:58] <cmaloney> but that's another topic.
[20:03] <greg-g> also, yay gapless playback
[20:03]  * greg-g goes to test a good test of that
[20:04] <greg-g> yeah, perfect gapless there
[20:04] <greg-g> parabol -> parabola on Tool's Lateralus
[20:04] <cmaloney> Yeah, it's my go-to- player for my music library
[20:05] <cmaloney> greg-g: Do you have last.fm set up?
[20:05] <greg-g> that's a tough one if the gapless sucks, it's a crescendo
[20:05] <greg-g> uh...
[20:05] <greg-g> .np Phlegethon
[20:05] <bookiebot> Phlegethon's last track - Strip the Soul (edit) by Porcupine Tree on Futile [17 Jun 2014, 04:30]
[20:05] <greg-g> nope
[20:05] <cmaloney> Yeah, head to settings / player
[20:05] <greg-g> i have to do that per player?
[20:05] <greg-g> kk
[20:05] <cmaloney> Yep
[20:06] <cmaloney> And give it a nice name
[20:06] <greg-g> done
[20:06] <cmaloney> Nice thing is you can also set max bitrate
[20:06] <greg-g> .np Phlegethon
[20:06] <bookiebot> Phlegethon's last track - Strip the Soul (edit) by Porcupine Tree on Futile [17 Jun 2014, 04:30]
[20:06] <cmaloney> so if you are at work and using ssh tunnel, you can cap it at 160kbps
[20:06] <cmaloney> or whatever
[20:06] <greg-g> hmm, might take til the next track
[20:06] <greg-g> gotcha
[20:07] <cmaloney> so I've used it at B&N in their cafe to listen to music
[20:07] <cmaloney> or OCC
[20:07] <greg-g> "(Note: You do not appear to have LAME installed. Logitech Media Server will need the LAME MP3 encoder installed on your system to do conversion to MP3. You can find out more about LAME here.)  "
[20:07] <greg-g> :)
[20:07] <cmaloney> ahh
[20:07] <greg-g> so, that only works for mp3s? not flac then I assume
[20:07] <greg-g> which uh... is the main bandwidth culprit ;)
[20:08] <greg-g> maybe lame works on flac as well? 'tis been forever since I effed with lame
[20:08] <cmaloney> it works for flac
[20:08] <brousch__> greg-g: It's official.  Apparently there's a band from Flint called King 810
[21:13] <cmaloney> apparently they're making a name for themselves by being assholes.
[21:13] <cmaloney> yay
[23:30] <cmaloney> Evening
[23:46] <rick_h_> ugh, /me hates hot weather
[23:47] <rick_h_> portland!!!!! portland!!!
[23:48] <cmaloney> heh


[17:55] <CarlFK> Jul  3 16:50:00 debootstrap: A copy of the C library was found in an unexpected directory:
[17:55] <CarlFK> Jul  3 16:50:00 debootstrap:   '/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc-2.13.so'
[17:55] <CarlFK> Jul  3 16:50:00 debconf: --> SUBST base-installer/debootstrap/fallback-warning INFO Failure trying to run: chroot /target dpkg --force-depends --install /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.13-8ubuntu2_amd64.deb
[19:15] <maxb> Is there any way to hook custom processing into oem-config's firstboot process?
[19:16] <maxb> I don't necessarily need it to be interactive at all, but I'd like to be able to insert some files into the first user's homedir when it is created


[11:59] <flocculant> knome: left a note on the slides pad
[11:59] <knome> mm
[12:00] <knome> btw, we can affect slide progress speed
[12:01] <knome> but of course we can only make it so fast so people have time to read it
[12:07] <knome> flocculant, also left a note at the chat - no need to reply, just for information there
[12:08] <flocculant> knome: seen that
[12:09] <flocculant> as far as speed goes - I think I've asked this before - speed overall? or speed per slide?
[12:09] <flocculant> speed per slide might be useful
[12:09] <flocculant> as you say - only so much time overall available :)
[12:09] <knome> i would have to check to make sure, but i think the generic conf setting is "how much time it takes for a slide to progress" (not per-slide)
[12:10] <knome> but we *can* affect per-slide stuff too
[12:10] <knome> it's a bit hacky, but..
[12:10] <flocculant> right
[12:10] <flocculant> cos obviously first one doesn't need long really
[12:10] <knome> yep
[12:11] <flocculant> hey you're did get the right image to install xubuntu :p
[12:11] <knome> haha
[12:11] <flocculant> anyway - main thing - do the notes I added make sense? not whether you agree or not - but understand what I mean :)
[12:11] <knome> yep
[12:11] <flocculant> k cool
[12:12] <knome> maybe change your editor color to a bit lighter share
[12:12] <knome> *shade
[12:12] <knome> to not make my head hurt so much :P
[12:12] <knome> that works too
[12:12] <flocculant> better?
[12:12] <knome> see above :P
[12:13] <flocculant> didn't really take much notice of the colour :)
[12:13] <knome> i only notice it when the contrast is crappy :)
[12:13] <flocculant> ha ha ha
[12:13] <knome> the darkest shades shouldn't even be there, they are unusable
[12:14] <flocculant> yea
[13:57] <bluesabre> hm https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.xenial_chinese-fonts/+merge/288195
[13:57] <bluesabre> quite a difference in size
[13:57] <bluesabre> !info fonts-noto-cjk xenial
[13:57] <bluesabre> !info fonts-noto-hinted xenial
[13:58] <bluesabre> bbl
[14:43] <flocculant> quite?
[14:43] <flocculant> that's polite :p
[17:46] <bluesabre> :)
[17:51] <flocculant> why's this guy wanting to change our stuff anyway?
[18:12] <bluesabre> probably because chinese, korean, and japanese fonts are not present at all in font-noto-hinted
[18:19] <flocculant> yea realise that
[20:11] <flocculant> so I am now ready to move release notes to a working wiki ;)
[20:23] <flocculant> if anyone actually has working access to the meeting page - can they do the deed for the next community meeting - thanks :)


[00:23] <h00k> I should have done a /clones before removing that bot.
[00:24] <Jordan_U> onoko in #ubuntu appears to be a bot.
[00:25] <h00k> Jordan_U: thank you
[00:26] <Jordan_U> You're welcome.
[03:50] <h00k> @btlogin
[06:57] <rww> Hola. The last few paragraphs of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines are redundant with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess , and it'd probably be less confusing if the former just linked to the latter instead.
[07:29] <Madpilot> rww, nice entitlement issue w/ fourstar on #u
[07:29] <Madpilot> pity he left before the edu-boot could be applied...
[07:29] <rww> oh hey, I'm still here.
[07:30] <IdleOne> I was slow on the trigger, wanted to give him a " You should know better"
[07:32] <rww> lies, yours says "Have a nice day"
[07:33] <IdleOne> only when I want it to
[07:33] <IdleOne> oh btw, GET OFF MY LAWN!
[07:34] <Tm_T> ?
[07:34] <IdleOne> he understood :)
[07:34] <IdleOne> hehe
[07:37] <Tm_T> ...
[07:38] <Tm_T> 1) you didn't answer his issue  2) that was rude, inside joke or not
[07:39] <IdleOne> what issue?
[07:40] <IdleOne> the guideline link thing. I had no opinion on it.
[07:41] <IdleOne> 2) I don't believe he took it as me being rude.
[07:41] <IdleOne> He knew exactly what I meant but if joking now and then with regulars who know us is out of line. I will remember not to anymore
[07:42] <Tm_T> so felt an urge to chase him away without even commenting an issue?
[07:42] <bazhang> nah. he took it as a joke. replied in -ot a moment later to that effect
[07:42] <Tm_T> sure
[07:42] <bazhang> he should be able to idle here, along with LjL
[07:43] <IdleOne> I still don't know what issue, he knows how to use the bot to submit factoids, he is also well versed on editing wiki pages. he knows who to talk to about having the wiki updated.
[07:43] <IdleOne> and yeah +1 to bazhang
[07:43] <Tm_T> IdleOne: then say it to him, don't just tell to go away
[07:43] <bazhang> probably just wanted to stop by
[07:43] <IdleOne> rww /should/ be in here
[07:44] <IdleOne> a half hour had passed, he forgot he was even in here
[07:45] <IdleOne> I'm not sure exactly what the problem is but I am feeling like I have to justify my every word
[07:45] <bazhang> lets move on
[07:45] <Tm_T> nah
[07:45] <IdleOne> I didn't see you offer any help to him on the issue
[07:46] <Tm_T> I just find it a bit rude to only chase user away (:
[07:46] <IdleOne> but I'll move along
[07:46] <Tm_T> np
[07:46] <IdleOne> and I find it extremely rude to be called on every thing I do
[08:50] <Jordan_U> avis is trolling in #ubuntu+1
[10:29] <topyli> @btlogin
[10:29] <topyli> @login
[10:29] <topyli> @btlogin
[10:50] <bazhang> <IP_ADDRESS>   four users connecting from that
[10:58] <bazhang> seems to be just trolling judging from the nickspam and comments in -unregged
[11:19] <bazhang> ohir, hi
[11:20] <ohir> hi. who operates floodbot?
[11:20] <bazhang> ohir, what do you need with floodbot?
[11:21] <ohir> one or two second of delay before it will kick me out of #ubuntu. To help nickserv update its bases
[11:21] <bazhang> ohir, auto identify you mean?
[11:22] <ohir> yes
[11:22] <bazhang> ohir, which client
[11:22] <ohir> bazhang: I have autoident to nickserv and it goes before joins
[11:22] <ohir> bazhang: irssi
[11:23] <bazhang> ohir, not sure there, perhaps #freenode or #irssi could help with the username:password config for that.
[11:24] <ohir> bazhang: I can artifically delay #ubuntu join when I do client startup. Its morec complicated if connection get lost and irrsi rejoins itself
[11:24] <bazhang> ohir, then that seems best, doubtful floodbot would be re-written for that
[11:24] <bazhang> the channel is not always +r thankfully
[11:25] <ohir> bazhang: I _do_ have autoidentify on. Problem is that it is seen on my whois a 0,5-2s later (depends on how busy network currently is
[11:25] <bazhang> seems to coincide with junior high school break times
[11:25] <ohir> heh, likely
[11:26] <bazhang> sorry for the inconvenience, by the way
[11:27] <ohir> I do understand need for it. Just a little delay or even double check whois can resolve
[11:27] <bazhang> yep. outside my field of knowledge or say so, unfortunately.
[11:28] <ohir> bazhang: where floodbot source is?
[11:28] <bazhang> heh
[11:28] <bazhang> dont think its open source actually :)
[11:29] <ohir> ah, so gimme one who wrote it to discuss :)
[11:31] <ohir> or just let her/him know that it should go this way: on newnick join -> (optionally mute nick) -> delay 1s -> whois check -> delay 1s -> whois check. If unregistered -> go protein check.
[11:33] <bazhang> ohir, ok. will pass on message. no guarantee of activation though
[11:34] <ohir> thanks
[11:35] <ohir> nice
[11:35] <LjL> hi
[11:35] <LjL> i was told someone was inquiring about the floodbots
[11:35] <bazhang> leave you to it then
[11:35] <bazhang> LjL, it is ohir
[11:35] <LjL> ohir: hi
[11:35] <ohir> LjL: yep, I did
[11:35] <LjL> ohir: i wrote those monsters. what is the matter with them?
[11:36] <ohir> LjL: I ause autoidentify. And routinely get kicked to unreg because there is a delay in nickserv db update
[11:36] <ohir> IMO it should go this way: on newnick join -> (optionally mute nick) -> delay 1s -> whois check -> delay 1s -> whois check. If unregistered -> go protein check.
[11:37] <LjL> ohir: that's a long-time problem with freenode indeed... i *think* (not really sure at all) staff recommends to use SASL to avoid that
[11:37] <LjL> ohir, well, the "mute nick" part would be absolutely necessary, because the spambots that we want to keep out usually start flooding *immediately*
[11:37] <ohir> LjL: I know
[11:38] <LjL> ohir: what's more, i strongly suspect (because of previous tests) that wouldn't even be good enough, since if someone joins and immediately starts spamming, there's too much server lag, in general, to mute them before they start
[11:38] <ohir> LjL: just its more convinient to mute than to kick
[11:38] <LjL> ohir: and finally, you see, that would cause a *lot* of ugly mode-spam in #ubuntu, which we could really do without :\
[11:38] <ohir> LjL: yep, this is right guess
[11:39] <ohir> LjL: what about identify to floodbot?
[11:39] <LjL> ohir: can't your client just introduce a short delay between identifying and joining, so that joining unidentified is unlikely?
[11:40] <ohir> its a small percentile of users who are sophisticated enough to use autoidentify and go #ubuntu
[11:40] <LjL> ohir: well... the floodbots are written with the idea in mind that they'll never really deal with PM or permissions (as those would be additional security issues that aren't really taken account of in the code). but even if i tried to do that, what would be the gain? it's still very likely, unless you set a delay in your client, that the time between identify-to-bot and join would be too short
[11:41] <ohir> LjL: it can. On startup it can be done easily. Anything more (ie server change) it needs more than that
[11:41] <ohir> LjL: ok, thats an argument.
[11:41] <ohir> simplicity pays
[11:42] <ohir> as to identify - I can identify to bot before I join
[11:42] <LjL> ohir: perhaps i could make the bots auto-invite when they detect a cloak change, and if you have join-on-invite set in your client...
[11:42] <LjL> but having that set is in general a bad idea :\
[11:42] <ohir> but its good attitude to have it simple and secure
[11:42] <ohir> LjL: ow, thats good idea
[11:42] <LjL> ohir: well but you can identify to nickserv before you join, too - it's just that nickserv isn't lightning fast (but neither is floodbot)
[11:43] <LjL> i'll look into doing the inviting thing
[11:43] <ohir> LjL: I am doing autoidentify. Then have even servmesg reply wait. But somewhat it is not enough in congestion time
[11:43] <ohir> LjL: inviting is good solution
[11:44] <LjL> ohir: if you want to ask in #freenode too whether they have some smart solution (again, i vaguely recall SASL could at least mitigate that), i'm glad to lurk and learn
[11:45] <ohir> LjL: SASL is not solution 'for the masses'
[11:47] <ohir> and yes, the real solution is to have unregistered users silent on channels with an M mode
[11:47] <ohir> M as example
[11:47] <ohir> what should be done in ircd
[11:51]  * ohir reads freenode's sasl howto.
[11:51] <ohir> its certainly not for the masses
[11:58] <LjL> ohir, well, you said that auto-identifying and auto-joining isn't for the masses either, though
[12:02] <ohir> right :)
[12:03] <LjL> ohir: ok, if you want you can try unidentifying, joining -unregged and identifying, and seeing what happens (if this works)
[12:04] <LjL> ohir: oh - you must not be in #ubuntu while you do that
[12:05] <ohir> ok
[12:05] <ohir> its better to quit then
[12:05] <LjL> seems a bit overkill, but ok :P
[12:15] <ohir> seem it works
[12:15] <LjL> cool
[12:16] <ohir> though still I need to get rid of unregged
[12:16] <LjL> well yeah
[12:16] <ohir> LjL: thanks
[12:16] <LjL> would you like to get kicked automatically too? :P
[12:16] <LjL> i'm not sure others would appreciate that :D
[12:16] <ohir> from unregged? yes
[12:16] <ohir> LjL: only if autoinvite kicks in
[12:16] <LjL> ohir: also you do know you can opt out of being redirected to other channels? that way you'd not end up in unregged
[12:17] <LjL> ohir: yeah but you must understand that people are often confused by things like /invite. actually even plain messages can confuse them enough. so kicking them would be, uhm...
[12:17] <LjL> i can already imagine the "WHY DID YOU KICK ME I DIDNT DO ANYTHING"s in here
[12:17] <ohir> LjL: for most 'by-hand' users it would be good too. Prove you're protein based then autoinvite on #ubuntu and kick from unregg
[12:17] <ohir> heh
[12:17] <ohir> yep, you're right
[12:18] <LjL> ohir: work in the frame of mind that given the bots give people the message "Type /join #ubuntu to join now", oftentimes people type
[12:18] <LjL>  /join #ubuntu to join now
[12:18] <LjL> that's how people are
[12:18] <ohir> "tell me a first two letters and I will autoinvite you back to main channel and kick you from there"
[12:19] <LjL> but then they won't be able to see the explanatory message that comes up *after* they've given the answer
[12:19] <ohir> will promote read&understand attitude
[12:20] <ohir> "tell me more" "end with +A to get autoinvited"
[12:20] <LjL> well if i really wanted to promote that, i wouldn't have added this questions thing in the first place - just let them register :P
[12:20] <LjL> hmm
[12:20] <LjL> i guess i could do that, but it wouldn't be any use in your case (i.e. no answer, just invite-on-registered-user)
[12:20] <ohir> LjL: I am telling about extending current behavior for users who understand
[12:21] <ohir> I know in my case it is not. But others may use it
[12:21] <LjL> honestly i doubt it. people who are in -unregged actually answering their question are mostly clueless... the clueful people have registered already. so i don't think having them kicked would help them any
[12:22] <ohir> if they register by hand (incurring enough delay for nickserv to update) they never got to unregg in first place
[12:23] <ohir> others may use it (or not, so then it is feature for plain fun :)
[12:23] <ohir> real solution is +M mode forr channel
[12:24] <LjL> what is +M?
[12:24] <ohir> Mute unregged
[12:24] <LjL> ah, that's +q $~a
[12:24] <LjL> (on this network)
[12:24] <ohir> IIRC 1996 talks about what would be nice to have
[12:24] <LjL> used to be +R
[12:25] <LjL> however, +r is only temporary in #ubuntu, it usually is free-for-all
[12:25] <LjL> (though that's increasingly rare these days :\)
[12:25] <ohir> on ircnet +R was just about real ident service
[12:25] <LjL> so muting all unregistered users isn't really an option
[12:25] <ohir> LjL it is an option
[12:25] <LjL> well here, on Hyperion, we used to have +r = only registered users can join and +R = only registered users can speak
[12:26] <ohir> LjL: new unregisterred user comes. She is muted on #main but she is being drawn to unreg
[12:26] <LjL> the problem is *old* unregistered users
[12:26] <LjL> if you are already in #ubuntu because you joined while +r wasn't set, you really should not suddenly end up muted
[12:27] <LjL> and the notice that the server sent on trying to speak while +
[12:27] <ohir> hm.....
[12:27] <LjL> +R was suboptimal, last time i checked
[12:27] <ohir> LjL: but at least it can solve join-spam-run bots
[12:28] <ohir> LjL. +M3
[12:28] <LjL> so can sporadic +r, and it's doing it just fine :P
[12:28] <ohir> mute unregged for 3 secs
[12:28] <LjL> that doesn't exist here
[12:28] <LjL> there's no way to have something like that, and i doubt Seven developers would add it at my request ;)
[12:29] <ohir> hm, I need charybids source and some time to dig in. It would be fun to see how nowadays ircd looks inside
[12:30] <LjL> i'm not familiar with it either
[12:30] <ohir> AFAIR seven is fork of charybdis
[12:32] <ohir> I am not so sure if they would not
[12:32] <LjL> well i'm leaving for a bit now. thanks for the input :)
[12:32] <ohir> each and every irc network has same problem with spammers
[12:32] <LjL> oh, well, you try asking them. honestly, i'm not in the best of relationships with freenode staff ;(
[12:32] <ohir> :)
[12:32] <ohir> np
[12:33] <ohir> and thanks for the floodbot todays play :)
[12:33] <ohir> cu
[12:33] <LjL> o/
[12:38] <bazhang> Jordan_U, saw that, in future please call !ops in such a case (+1)
[12:44] <nhandler> FYI, using 'nick:password' as the server password should cause you to be identified prior to joining channels.
[12:45] <bazhang> yep. just no idea how to do that in irssi
[12:47] <nhandler> bazhang: /SERVER ADD -auto -network worknet irc.mycompany.com 6667 password
[12:47] <nhandler> That is from http://www.irssi.org/documentation/startup
[12:49] <bazhang> nhandler, thanks
[12:49] <bazhang> using xchat here, have yet to take that leap
[12:49] <gnomefreak> irssi here. cant you just add it to the servers section (the top of /conf
[12:49] <gnomefreak> )
[12:50] <gnomefreak> here is my settings http://pastebin.com/fY1qUbSx  may that can help
[12:51] <gnomefreak> oh i think i dropped mozilla.org from conf. but it was added at the top section
[12:52] <gnomefreak> nope still there
[12:59] <nhandler> But it is probably best not to recommend editing the conf file by hand and instead to modify it from within irssi using the command I posted above (like the irssi folks recommend)
[13:09] <Tm_T> yup
[13:10] <Tm_T> less chances to break the syntax and thus parsing
[13:30] <bazhang> coke is having odd problems, refusing to answer questions
[13:38] <bazhang> seems to be trolling with the multiple mentions of Arch, and no actual tangible questions
[13:38] <ikonia> agreed
[13:41] <elky> er, so what he's wanting is a magic option to magically swap out the interface to whatever the user chooses at whim
[13:41] <elky> or am I reading it all wrong?
[13:41] <ikonia> nope
[13:41] <bazhang> yep, wants netbook unicorn edition
[13:41] <elky> lawl
[13:42] <elky> no no, what were the servants at the school in harry potter?
[13:42] <elky> the ones with the magic tables they put food on and it magically appeared on the real tables
[13:42] <maco> house elfes
[13:42] <maco> *elfs
[13:43] <elky> yes those.
[13:43] <elky> he wants netbook house elf edition
[13:44] <jussi> a house elky ? o.O
[13:44] <jussi> oh wait, elf
[13:44] <jussi> :D
[13:44] <bazhang> dobby edition
[13:44] <maco> quick, give her a sock?
[13:44] <elky> bazhang, lol
[13:44] <bazhang> maco, hehe
[13:47] <elky> Am I allowed to admit that I'm totally over the way the word cloud gets abused. I mean generally, to the point that nobody understands the basics of what it actually is?
[13:47] <ikonia> it annoys me
[13:49] <topyli> iirc kde now has desktop/netbook modes in the control center, just switch
[13:49] <elky> bazhang, alias webscale to mongodb?
[13:50] <bazhang> elky, not me!
[13:50] <elky> topyli, yeah, he rejected that though
[13:50] <topyli> ok, if something that does just what he wants is not what he wants, then he's difficult to help
[13:51] <bazhang> he's not even asking for help. just griping
[13:51] <elky> erm how does one alias with the bot?
[13:51] <bazhang>   factoid is <alias > other factoid ?
[13:52] <elky> ubottu, webscale-#ubuntu-offtopic is <alias> mongodb-#ubuntu-offtopic
[13:53] <maco> topyli: he wants to use normal ubuntu NOT netbook edition but without the hassle of reinstalling everything
[13:53] <elky> and without having to do stuff in gdm
[13:53] <bazhang> or even putting ubuntu-desktop in, has to be for computer illiterates or else he'd install ARCH
[13:54] <maco> install ubuntu-desktop and uninstall the ubuntu-netbook stuff so then no having to use gdm
[13:54] <elky> but that's not magically done for him
[13:54] <elky> if he has to do things he might as well do different things
[13:54] <elky> ^ that's about the best summary of his arguement I think
[13:55] <topyli> like go and play ice-hockey
[13:55] <elky> typical finn
[13:56] <elky> so who from the IRCC is going to UDS?
[13:56] <topyli> not so typical, i have my own teeth!
[13:56] <topyli> no uds for me
[13:58] <topyli> jussi is going if sponsored, i don't know how that went
[14:01] <elky> that the only intended in-person representation?
[14:13] <topyli> i don't know. we haven't discussed how many should go, as long as someone goes
[14:15] <elky> topyli, i'm just wondering who to check with since the invites went out yesterday
[14:15] <topyli> ah
[15:33] <IdleOne> @mark qwert #ubuntu user has been warned not to impersonate any of the ops with similar nicks.
[17:19] <ikonia> IdleOne: was he/she doing it again ?
[17:29] <jpds> it.
[19:29] <nigelb> if you folks didn't see -meeting... please take a look?
[19:29] <charlie-tca> rompeculos is having issues/swearing in #ubuntu-meeting
[19:30] <IdleOne> ikonia: yes he was impersonating maco
[19:32] <charlie-tca> Thank you, IdleOne
[19:33] <IdleOne> now we just need someone to do something about it
[19:34] <charlie-tca> Yes, it gets worse
[19:36] <IdleOne> Ubunterito and rompeculos are trolling in spanish in -meeting
[19:39] <Tm_T> half of the names in that hilight list aren't even ops there...
[19:39] <charlie-tca> Well, can anyone do anything there?
[19:39] <Tm_T> charlie-tca: if could, it would have been done I suppose
[19:40] <charlie-tca> Yeah, sorry for the question
[19:40] <Tm_T> no need to be sorry for that
[19:41] <IdleOne> Pici topyli jussi nhandler #ubuntu-meeting needs help now.
[19:45] <topyli> i'm mobile, don't have password for the ircc account handy
[19:45] <Tm_T> pici took care of it
[19:46] <Pici> \o
[19:46] <topyli> yay: )
[19:46] <IdleOne> may need to edit the access list in there some :)
[19:47] <topyli> indeed, make sure someone has access during meetings
[19:48] <IdleOne> I don't know that trolling is a big issue in there but yeah just in case
[19:49] <charlie-tca> never a big issue until it happens
[19:49] <Tm_T> best to ignore if there's no ops around, giving them the attention is all they're after
[20:18] <charlie-tca> That was why I didn't say anything
[22:37] <bazhang> glory to might aryans?  rocket16's quit message
[22:38] <bazhang> err mighty
 hey anyone no how i get bot net running
[22:57] <IdleOne> there are legitimate reasons for running a bot net
[22:57] <IdleOne> but without knowing the type of bot it is hard to answer that question
[22:58] <IdleOne> egghelp.org for eggdrop


[12:00] <jfcastro> somebody know how can I configure an Exchange Server OWA in my thunderbird?
[20:38] <BUGabundo> evening folks of the mighty land of the writing
[21:07] <BUGabundo> $ pkill -9 chromium-browser
[21:07] <BUGabundo> is not killing chromium :S