[01:40] <tbruff13> how do i add myself to the list for the next meeting
[01:41] <tbruff13> I am a high school student who is doing a senior project on Ubuntu I will be trying to convert my entire parish to Ubuntu
[01:54] <tbruff13> is anyone here
[01:54] <tbruff13> can someone help
[01:59] <JackyAlcine> tbruff13: Subscribe to the calendar : http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
[15:01] <ogra_> moo
[15:02] <ppisati> o/
[15:06] <GrueMaster> snort.
[15:06] <infinity> *shifty look*
[15:07]  * ahs3 yawns
[15:07] <ogra_> well, despite our chair person missing, lets get started
[15:08] <ogra_> #startmeeting ubuntu-arm
[15:08] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Dec  8 15:08:02 2011 UTC.  The chair is ogra_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[15:08] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:08] <ogra_> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20111208
[15:08] <ogra_> seems ther are no action items
[15:08] <ogra_> :)
[15:08] <ogra_> so lets go over the standing items ...
[15:09] <ogra_> [topic] spec status, http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-arm.html
[15:09] <ogra_> doesnt look bad ... are all specs on there now ?
[15:09] <ogra_> shout if you are missing any
[15:09] <infinity> I should probably fill in some work items on my specs before I get yelled at, shouldn't I?
[15:10] <ogra_> might help
[15:10] <infinity> And I should break the livefs-in-soyuz WI out of image-pipeline into a spec. :/
[15:10] <infinity> Cause, well, a month of work isn't a WI.
[15:10] <ogra_> also make sure they are approved, have a prio and are assigned to precise by davidm
[15:10] <GrueMaster> My bare-metal spec is still under review.
[15:11] <ogra_> poke davidm please, once he is back
[15:11] <GrueMaster> Not that it matters much.  It was mainly designed to be informational.
[15:11] <ogra_> i really would like to have the tracker working before i start my vacation in a week
[15:11] <infinity> ogra_: I'm on holidays in a week and a day.  Can I count on you to bug me to make sure my specs are sane before that?
[15:11] <infinity> (Today's a bit too busy on the armhf porting front for me to do too much paperwork/drafting)
[15:11] <ogra_> infinity, will try to, i'm on vac. from 19th on myself
[15:12] <ogra_> moving on then ...
[15:12] <infinity> ogra_: From the 16th here. :)
[15:12] <ogra_> well, thats the same :P
[15:12] <infinity> ogra_: No, as in, I'm taking the 16th off.
[15:12] <ogra_> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
[15:12] <ogra_> aha ... yeah, ok, thats different
[15:13] <ogra_> Daviey, any server news (since NCommander seems to have vanished off the face of the earth)
[15:13]  * ogra_ suspects not ...
[15:14] <ogra_> well, lets move on ... we can come back to it if someone serverish shows up
[15:14] <ogra_> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
[15:14] <ppisati> armhf support has hit the archive (as you may have noticed)
[15:14] <ppisati> and 3.2.0-x too
[15:14] <ogra_> apart from mx5 i think
[15:14] <infinity> Has anyone taken the 3.2 omap4 for a solid spin on a Panda yet?
[15:14]  * ahs3 is server-ish but has no news
[15:15] <ppisati> infinity: i found a bug this morning
[15:15] <ppisati> ogra_: mx5? is it community supported or what?
[15:15] <ogra_> ppisati, linaro
[15:15] <infinity> Now that mine's not stuck building ghc, I can make it grumpy with 3.2 and armhf.
[15:15] <infinity> ppisati: Yay bugs.  Is it any worse than the ones we currently have? :)
[15:15] <ppisati> infinity: panic on reboot if a usbhdd is used, i already pushed a new kernel with an ext4 fix and that too
[15:16] <ppisati> if pulling the cord on reboot is not a problem, feel free to update now
[15:16] <ogra_> we only provide SD images anyway ... just ignore it :P
[15:16] <infinity> ppisati: Snazzy.  I need to test if 3.2.x fixes all my NPTL/TLS woes, and I suspect it will, from what markos has been saying.
[15:16] <ppisati> else, wait until tomorrow
[15:16] <ppisati> ok
[15:16] <GrueMaster> No, don't ignore it!
[15:16] <ogra_> heh
[15:16]  * ogra_ wasnt serious
[15:16] <ppisati> ogra_: do you want me to do the armhf stuff for mx5?
[15:16] <janimo> sorry fior being late, hhello
[15:16] <ogra_> ppisati, ask jcrigby
[15:17] <ppisati> ok
[15:17] <infinity> ppisati: Should be jcrigby's alley, no?
[15:17] <ogra_> janimo, np
[15:17] <janimo> ppisati, is that not linaro task?
[15:17] <ogra_> janimo, i guess john appreciated help
[15:17] <janimo> zalong with a 3.0 kernel for mx5 whic I hear is available
[15:17] <infinity> Anyhow, we're in no huge rush on mx5/armhf.  We have Panda and ac100 to play with.
[15:17]  * ppisati leaves the mx5 to its destiny...
[15:17] <GrueMaster> I would assume we want armHF on mx5, since everything else is moving off armel.
[15:17] <ppisati> :)
[15:17] <ogra_> and we would appreciate being able to build images :)
[15:17] <infinity> And lots of bugs to shake out.
[15:17] <ogra_> yeah
[15:18] <ogra_> GrueMaster, we do, but we're suddenly so ahead of time that it doesnt bite us to wait another week or two
[15:18] <infinity> Well, and we have plenty of userspace bugs to shake out.
[15:18] <ogra_> especially for an image thats a "tech preview"
[15:18] <infinity> Kernel space is identical from armel to armhf, so I'm less concerned.
[15:18] <ogra_> any other kernel bits ?
[15:18] <infinity> We'll get there.
[15:18] <ogra_> else i'll move
[15:19] <infinity> ogra_: Boogie on.
[15:19] <ogra_> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:19] <ogra_> (and everyone else :) )
[15:19] <infinity> Thanks to armhf, the armel FTBFS list is looking better too. :P
[15:19] <infinity> In fact, the whole distro is.
[15:19] <ogra_> armhf ftbfs looks very very good
[15:19] <infinity> armhf == free rebuild test.
[15:19] <janimo> gave back a few things, next up libo test, once I install armhf on the board
[15:19] <ogra_> yep
[15:19] <infinity> libreoffice needs love.  Not sure if doko and Sweetshark are still going back and forth on that.
[15:20] <infinity> I hope so.
[15:20]  * ogra_ looked into some bits and wasted a lot of time for getting an ubiquity build env up today...
[15:20] <infinity> I'm working on ghc and gnat.
[15:20] <janimo> infinity, I'll look at it, doko said he's done as far as he's concerned
[15:20] <infinity> And we have people pondering looking at fpc.
[15:20] <ogra_> anything else ?
[15:21] <GrueMaster> netinstall.
[15:21] <infinity> (fpc needs a full port and bootstrap at the upstream level, if you speak fluent pascal and arm ASM without context-switching between the two, speak up)
[15:21] <ogra_> ftbfs ??
[15:21] <GrueMaster> No, fail to install.  libc6 udeb.
[15:21]  * ogra_ moves on
[15:21] <ogra_> [topic] ARM Hardfloat status (infinity)
[15:21] <ogra_> :)
[15:22] <ogra_> i guess there isnt much to add
[15:22] <infinity> There we go.  Now you can bring up netinst. ;)
[15:22] <ogra_> wouldnt that belong into images ?
[15:22] <infinity> other than "things are going really, really well with armhf" (much better than expected), we have some bugs to shake out.  Installer oopses, etc.
[15:22] <GrueMaster> Someone is moving the meeting too fast for me to type.
[15:22] <infinity> ogra_: It's both?  I dunno. :P
[15:22] <infinity> ogra_: It's HF-specific, I believe.
[15:22] <ogra_> the queue seems to have ~3000 packages ... is that accurate ?
[15:22] <infinity> ogra_: Yeah.
[15:22] <ogra_> wow
[15:23] <doko> qtmobility needs fixing
[15:23] <ogra_> so we should be doen by the weekend
[15:23] <infinity> ogra_: FSVO "done"... There's lots to do still.
[15:23] <ogra_> doko, universe *shrug* .... that has time
[15:23] <doko> ogra_, kubuntu package set
[15:23] <infinity> Universe is big.  Fix early, fix often.
[15:23] <ogra_> argh
[15:24] <ogra_> how about the kubuntu guys ? did someone talk to them ?
[15:24] <infinity> It just has a bad symbols file.
[15:24] <infinity> 5 minute fix.
[15:24] <infinity> Move on.
[15:24] <ogra_> k
[15:24] <ogra_> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:24] <ogra_> started hf testbuilds
[15:24] <ogra_> which was somehow trashed in the middle by broken packages
[15:25] <ogra_> a new omap4 build is just running now
[15:25] <ogra_> if that succeeds too (ac100 works already) i will switch on autobuilds tomorrow
[15:25] <infinity> netinst needs (at least) my mklibs fix uploaded and a d-i rebuild.
[15:25] <infinity> But might need more.
[15:25] <ogra_> for everything but mx5
[15:25] <GrueMaster> yep.   hunspell-en-us broke the world (not just arm)
[15:25] <ogra_> yep
[15:25] <infinity> It sure did.
[15:25] <ogra_> but its fixed
[15:26] <ogra_> as is ubiquity
[15:26] <ogra_> so i dont expect the currently running omap4 build to fall over
[15:26] <ogra_> but we'll see :)
[15:27] <ogra_> anything else for images
[15:27]  * ogra_ waits for GrueMaster to not speeed to fast for the old man :)
[15:27] <GrueMaster> Hey!
[15:27] <ogra_> *g*
[15:27] <ogra_> ok, moving then
[15:27] <infinity> We're all old. :P
[15:27] <ogra_> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
[15:28] <ogra_> GrueMaster, stage is all yours
[15:28] <GrueMaster> Still working on automation for SRU testing.  Seems that everytime I get one test working for QRT, another breaks, due to x86 requirements.
[15:28] <ogra_> how about your jenkins stuff, when is that due to move to the official jenkins instance ?
[15:29] <GrueMaster> And I still don't have a clear scenario on what to test for SRU approval.  Currently I run the QRT kernel tests, and a few other things.
[15:29] <ogra_> (doesnt seem to be there yet ... i was looking for it for a report i had to write for david yesterday)
[15:29] <GrueMaster> I won't move it to Jenkins until I can get it stabilized here.
[15:29] <ogra_> ah, k
[15:29] <GrueMaster> And since I have very little visibility with them, it is much harder.
[15:30] <ogra_> well SRU approval is indeed tricky
[15:30] <ogra_> since it usually refers to one specific bug
[15:30] <ogra_> which your test would have to reproduce
[15:30] <GrueMaster> Only in that there is no documented "This is what we run to approve".
[15:30] <ogra_> well, "does the bug still occur" is what we run i would guess
[15:31] <ogra_> no idea if thats even remotely automatable
[15:31] <ogra_> you can surely automate regression testing ...
[15:31] <GrueMaster> Problem with that is that there are a LOT of tests that were fixed on x86 that still exist on arm.
[15:31] <ogra_> but likely not the verifgication
[15:31] <GrueMaster> I can only automate what I know (which isn't much).
[15:32] <ogra_> right
[15:32] <GrueMaster> And when the upstream test scripts keep breaking, I have to manually intervene.
[15:32] <GrueMaster> Making automation moot.
[15:32] <ogra_> indeed :/
[15:33] <GrueMaster> So far, this have been my primary focus since UDS.  And it is taking way too much of my time.
[15:33] <ogra_> any chance to get some external help from i.e. linaro ?
[15:34] <ogra_> i would assume they suffer similar issues in some areas
[15:34] <ogra_> or do they do everything from scratch
[15:34] <GrueMaster> It isn't really a linaro thing.  It is mainly working with the security team to fix their wrt test scripts.
[15:34] <ogra_> ah, yeah, and thats something linaro doesnt touch at all
[15:35] <GrueMaster> And linaro is more interested in performance benchmarking.  Not sure they do any SRU testing.
[15:35] <ogra_> they dont do SRUs indeed
[15:35] <ogra_> anything else for QA ?
[15:36] <GrueMaster> I would like to thank NCommander (if he were here) for providing me a hacked netinstall for Maverick & Natty on Panda.  At least I can automate the install for that part of the SRU testing.
[15:36]  * ogra_ applauds the absent NCommander
[15:36] <GrueMaster> It also has helped expose a bug introduced in another package (procps) that was in proposed.
[15:36] <GrueMaster> That affected all platforms.
[15:37] <ogra_> great
[15:37] <GrueMaster> And I'm done.
[15:37] <ogra_> [topic] Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
[15:37] <GrueMaster> Nothing more to see here, move along.
[15:37]  * rsalveti waves
[15:37] <ogra_> heys rsalveti
[15:38] <rsalveti> guess no much to report during this week
[15:38] <rsalveti> marcin was able to push some of the fixes to doko
[15:38] <janimo> rsalveti, do you know what the status of mx5 3.0 kernel is?
[15:38] <rsalveti> for the cross toolchain
[15:38] <rsalveti> janimo: we should be pushing a new 3.1 kernel soon, once jcrigby is done with the ci bp
[15:38] <ogra_> rsalveti, with the enormous speed that armhf gets forward we are very likely to swithch asap
[15:38] <GrueMaster> Can you nudge your guys to fix the beagleXM network issue?
[15:38] <rsalveti> probably in the next few days
[15:38] <ogra_> rsalveti, is linaro prepared for that ?
[15:39] <rsalveti> ogra_: sure :-)
[15:39] <rsalveti> we also want to switch asap :-)
[15:39] <ogra_> (wrt binary drivers mainly)
[15:39] <janimo> rsalveti, ah great. So 3.1 will be pushed to the archives
[15:39] <rsalveti> ogra_: well, that's the complicated part
[15:39] <rsalveti> talked with ti but that is still not a priority for them
[15:39] <ogra_> rsalveti, i'll bring the panda stuff up in tomorrows call
[15:39] <ogra_> but what about beagle ?
[15:39] <rsalveti> yeah, would be better to do the follow up tomorrow
[15:40] <ogra_> or other vendors
[15:40] <rsalveti> ogra_: same thing, they don't care much about armhf atm
[15:40] <ogra_> do you have any lever in linaro you could move them with ?
[15:40] <ogra_> sigh
[15:40] <rsalveti> sure, anmar is our guy for it
[15:40] <rsalveti> will ping him about it
[15:40] <ogra_> that smells like another release without unity 3d
[15:40] <ogra_> even though we have the code now
[15:40] <rsalveti> nicolas said he'd try to build the driver for armhf
[15:40] <ogra_> nothing we will support can run it
[15:41] <rsalveti> and then see how that goes, but if he needs to put some work on that, it'll probably be hard to have it released
[15:41] <ogra_> rsalveti, right, as i said, thats for the call rtomorrow
[15:41] <rsalveti> yeah
[15:41] <janimo> rsalveti, regarding the cross-build of firefox and chromium that riku is doing, do you know what can be done to get the multiarch-fixed libs in precise? They are now in a PPA, and riku has no upload right, but I am not sure if anything is done to push them ATM
[15:41] <ogra_> and he is aware that he has all bits for building already
[15:41] <rsalveti> janimo: yeah, that's why we have https://blueprints.launchpad.net/linaro-ubuntu/+spec/push-multiarch-changes-for-cross-precise
[15:42] <rsalveti> janimo: the goal for this bp is to have at least everything in a bug with the patch attached
[15:42] <rsalveti> but atm he's doing well on both ubuntu and debian
[15:42] <rsalveti> janimo: and also poked him to update your request for feedback
[15:42] <janimo> rsalveti, I saw that but it was not clear to me whether wotk is ongoing or stalled (or not a prio for linaro)
[15:42] <janimo> wrt pushing to the main archive
[15:43] <rsalveti> janimo: that's the main thing he's working atm
[15:43] <janimo> ok
[15:43] <rsalveti> he finished the chromium one already
[15:43] <janimo> thanks
[15:43] <rsalveti> so now he's just working on pushing it to precise
[15:43] <rsalveti> feel free to ping him about it anytime
[15:43] <rsalveti> guess that's all from my side
[15:43]  * ogra_ guesses FF has a higher prio on our side
[15:43] <rsalveti> so two actions
[15:44] <ogra_> at least thats how i understood smagoun
[15:44] <janimo> well having all the depends in is what matter a lot too, as others use them
[15:44] <rsalveti> yup
[15:44] <ogra_> yep
[15:44] <ogra_> anything else ? more questions ?
[15:44] <rsalveti> nops
[15:44]  * ogra_ moves to AOB then
[15:44] <rsalveti> how to add action with this bot?
[15:45] <rsalveti> should use #action?
[15:45] <ogra_> i think angled brackets
[15:45] <ogra_> but hash might also work
[15:45] <ogra_> try it :)
[15:45] <infinity> I thought it was square braces? :P
[15:45] <rsalveti> #action rsalveti to track the gles driver status for armhf for the vendors we support
[15:45] <meetingology> ACTION: rsalveti to track the gles driver status for armhf for the vendors we support
[15:45] <ogra_> youre so square :P
[15:45] <GrueMaster> Its hash, but has to be done by the moderator.
[15:45] <rsalveti> yup :-)
[15:46] <GrueMaster> Or that.
[15:46] <ogra_> GrueMaster, apparentl not :)
[15:46] <ogra_> rsalveti, you said two actions ?
[15:46]  * ogra_ waits for the second before he moves to AOB
[15:46] <rsalveti> #action work with jcrigby to update the mx53 kernel
[15:46] <meetingology> ACTION: work with jcrigby to update the mx53 kernel
[15:46] <rsalveti> done!
[15:46] <ogra_> great :)
[15:46] <GrueMaster> #action rsalveti to kick someone to fix bug 838200
[15:46] <meetingology> ACTION: rsalveti to kick someone to fix bug 838200
[15:46] <rsalveti> sorry, I'm in two meetings
[15:47] <ogra_> [topic] AOB
[15:47] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: thanks
[15:47] <ogra_> anyone ?
[15:47] <GrueMaster> :)
[15:47]  * ogra_ has nothing
[15:47] <infinity> I'm dry.
[15:47] <ogra_> seems nobody else either
[15:47] <ogra_> going once
[15:47] <ogra_> twice...
[15:48] <ogra_> sold to the guy in underwear ....
[15:48] <ogra_> #ednmeeting
[15:48] <ogra_> #endmeeting
[15:48] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Dec  8 15:48:09 2011 UTC.
[15:48] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-08-15.08.moin.txt
[15:48] <ogra_> pfft
[15:48] <GrueMaster> Hey, that's me!
[15:48] <ogra_> now pay !
[15:48] <ogra_> :)
[15:48] <ahs3> tmi :)
[15:48]  * GrueMaster hands underwear to ogra.
[15:48] <ogra_> eeek !


[00:57] <vanishing> gnome-fallback sessions seems broken
[00:57] <vanishing> black screen anyone?
[01:49] <elvis4526> Hi just saw the recent benchmark on openarena running under xmir. How can xmir perform better then X itself ?
[01:51] <penguin42> looks like bug 1204691
[01:51] <penguin42> classic bug
[01:51] <penguin42> elvis4526: I don't know, but I think they're saying that normal X has some frame rate limiting to the sync rate of your monitor
[02:41] <elvis4526> well is this a good thing ?
[02:50] <wilee-nilee> test
[05:15] <DJJeff> im running Xubuntu 13.10 Saucy and gnome based apps take 45+ seconds to start
[05:15] <DJJeff> I did an strace and got this http://paste.ubuntu.com/6035422/
[05:16] <DJJeff> "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply"
[10:31] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[13:35] <vanishing> knock knock
[13:38] <Pici> who's there?
[13:39] <vanishing> canoe
[13:58] <BluesKaj> vanishing, got a question ?
[13:58] <vanishing> BluesKaj: yep..I am wondering if you can do me a favor
[13:58] <vanishing> can you check if your flashback sessions are working on 13.10
[13:59] <BluesKaj> flashback sessions?
[13:59] <vanishing> BluesKaj: gnome-sessions-flashback in the repo
[13:59] <vanishing> BluesKaj: its the old gnome session..with gnome-panel
[14:00] <BluesKaj> vanishing, I'm a KDE user
[14:00] <vanishing> BluesKaj: I see....
[14:00] <BluesKaj> are you talking about /var/log
[14:01] <vanishing> BluesKaj: var log?
[14:01] <vanishing> no..i mean
[14:01] <vanishing> can you actually try to log into that session :D
[14:01] <vanishing> I've tested on 3 machines, all of them ends up in a "blackscreen with cursor" state
[14:02] <BluesKaj> vanishing, previous sessions ?
[14:03] <vanishing> BluesKaj: well..it worked before yesterday
[14:04] <BluesKaj> still don't know what you mean
[14:04] <BluesKaj> nm
[14:04] <BluesKaj> forget i even asked
[14:05] <vanishing> BluesKaj: lol...kk
[14:06] <BluesKaj> vanishing, if you explain what you mean then I can't try it
[14:07] <BluesKaj> but otherise ....
[14:07] <vanishing> BluesKaj: sure..Can you try to install gnome-sessions-fallback, log out to lightdm, and pick gnome-flashback as session to log in
[14:07] <vanishing> :D
[14:08] <BluesKaj> sorry I'm not going to fool with gnome stuff
[14:09] <vanishing> alright..:)
[14:32] <penguin42> vanishing: Hang on, let me fire up a vm
[14:32] <vanishing> penguin42: thank you!
[14:33]  * penguin42 has a can-someone-try-it - can someone start libreoffice and open a new spreadhseet - do you get a reasonable number of rows/columns?
[14:34]  * vanishing lols
[14:36] <penguin42> vanishing: I'm just running an update in my VM - should take about 10 mins
[14:36] <vanishing> penguin42: sure thing, I'm in no hurry :D
[14:37] <penguin42> neither is my DSL....
[14:37] <vanishing> penguin42: haha...I consider myself impatient
[14:38] <penguin42> vanishing: I'm hopefully getting Cable about 3.5 times faster on Friday
[14:38] <vanishing> downloading stuff at less than 500k makes wanna tear my hairs out..
[14:38] <vanishing> but I'm used to ubuntu breakage now :P
[14:38] <penguin42> it's managing about 7.5Mbps/750KBps
[14:39] <vanishing> penguin42: where are you?
[14:39] <penguin42> Manchester, UK
[14:39] <vanishing> penguin42: im in toronto, 25m/2m here :D
[14:40] <penguin42> vanishing: I should have 30/3 by Friday
[14:41] <vanishing> penguin42: ;P..no more DSL
[14:42] <vanishing> the ubuntu +1 forum is so quiet compared to 10.10 or before days..
[14:42] <vanishing> its like..so many people quit or something.
[14:44] <penguin42> I think IRC generally is a lot quieter as well over the last few years
[14:44] <vanishing> not sure what happened.. :|
[14:45] <penguin42> vanishing: So what does opening a new libreoffice spreadhseet do for you?
[14:46] <vanishing> penguin42: is it called libreoffice calc or something?
[14:46] <vanishing> it just...opens up
[14:47] <BluesKaj> wish Bell would run their fibre service into our town the trunk line runs by us less than a mile away , but we're stuck with DSL here ...the whole town is fibered by the cable co , but their TV service is crappy so their internet is expensive by itself.
[14:47] <penguin42> vanishing: OK, and how many rows/cols do you have - can you see the text of the row numbering or are there zillions?
[14:48] <vanishing> penguin42: its scrolling infinitely...I can see the numbers growing
[14:48] <penguin42> vanishing: OK for me it's displaying hundreds of rows on screen when I open it; too small to read the row numbers
[14:49] <vanishing> penguin42: config problem?
[14:49] <penguin42> maybe
[14:50] <penguin42> vanishing: Hmm yes, nuking ~/.config/libreoffice fixed it
[14:50] <penguin42> (my vm has nearly updated)
[14:50] <vanishing> BluesKaj: story of canadian  monopoly..
[14:50] <vanishing> penguin42: :D
[14:50] <BluesKaj> libreoffice calc looks good here, mice and stable
[14:50] <BluesKaj> nice3
[14:51] <vanishing> my old install(perfect setup for me) got trashed on Sunday
[14:51] <BluesKaj> vanishing, yeah , I could switch to cable , but it's not worth the trouble for us
[14:51] <vanishing> had to reimage :(
[14:51] <vanishing> BluesKaj: especially with their contracts and stuff
[14:52] <penguin42> vanishing: OK, so how do I test this gnome thing
[14:52] <BluesKaj> i have no contracts , made sure of that
[14:52] <vanishing> penguin42: hmm..just install gnome-sessions-fallback...log out. in lightdm choose gnome-flashback-compiz and log in :D
[14:52] <vanishing> BluesKaj: lucky dude
[14:53] <vanishing> BluesKaj: rogers makes sure you are on a leash
[14:53] <vanishing> or rather, us..the unfortunate ones
[14:53] <BluesKaj> vanishing, been with them for many yrs
[14:53] <BluesKaj> bell that is
[14:53] <penguin42> vanishing: I've a choice between Gnome Flashback and Gnome Flashback (No effects)
[14:53] <penguin42> vanishing: The 1st one seems to work OK in my VM
[14:53]  * genii makes more coffee
[14:54] <vanishing> BluesKaj: I had bell before, but that is when I lived in an apartment, it was old..not very good for DSL
[14:54] <BluesKaj> 'morning genii
[14:54] <vanishing> penguin42: it loged in okay?
[14:54] <vanishing> logged*
[14:54] <penguin42> BluesKaj: Yeh so the reason I'm switching is 1) My DSL speed dropped and it's undebuggable  2) The Cable company finally published their details of when they do rate limiting  3) It's 20% more cost for 3-4x faster
[14:54] <penguin42> vanishing: Yeh
[14:54] <genii> BluesKaj: Mornin'! Spent most of it earlier drying out our basement at home before going to work....
[14:55] <vanishing> penguin42: aww man...whats wrong with my install...
[14:55] <vanishing> its a fresh install as well
[14:55] <penguin42> vanishing: Does the 'No effects' version work?
[14:55] <vanishing> nope..
[14:55] <vanishing> only unity and gnome-shell
[14:55] <vanishing> works
[14:55] <BluesKaj> genii, yeah i see you guys got quite a storm there yesterday
[14:55] <penguin42> vanishing: Hmm ok, you say you get a black screen? What about if you do it in a new user?
[14:55] <vanishing> penguin42: samething :D
[14:56] <vanishing> tested with all the usually steps
[14:56] <vanishing> i do see some error with gnome-settings-daemon though
[14:56]  * genii shakes a fist at the gathering storm clouds then goes back to pumping out the basement at work
[14:56] <vanishing> genii: good luck man
[14:57] <vanishing> ** (gnome-settings-daemon:1041): WARNING **: Name taken or bus went away - shutting down
[14:57] <BluesKaj> penguin42, yeah i could go from 50bucks to 65 with 3-5 times speed increase , but they do throttle as well
[14:57] <vanishing> this is in the greeters log
[14:59] <penguin42> vanishing: I get that as well - but it logs in OK
[14:59] <penguin42> vanishing: so you say you've got a blackscreen?
[14:59] <vanishing> yep...
[15:00] <penguin42> vanishing: Can you log in remotely, or use ctrl-alt-f1 to get a text console and see what's running
[15:00] <vanishing> I could reinstall it again.....
[15:01] <penguin42> well not sure that would help
[15:01] <vanishing> penguin42: I could ctrl-alt-f1 to restart lightdm even
[15:01] <vanishing> also...I can't log out
[15:01] <vanishing> when I log out, it just hangs
[15:02] <penguin42> vanishing: ok, but if you've got it in that hang then the thing is to find out what's going on - is stuff running? Anything in the X log?
[15:03] <vanishing> penguin42: its pretty quiet in the x log..
[15:03] <vanishing> let me try to log in through gnome fallback again
[15:04] <vanishing> brb
[15:08] <vanishing> penguin42: hmmm..nothing is coming up..
[15:09] <penguin42> vanishing: OK, so if you do a ps -eaf can you see all the gnome stuff?
[15:10] <vanishing> another thing I see in the greeter log is: Error registering user list dbus object: an object is already exported for the interface com.canonical.UnityGreeter.List at /list
[15:10] <vanishing> penguin42: yea..they seem ok
[15:10] <vanishing> no gnome-panel and stuff like that though
[15:10] <vanishing> only gnome-session, gnome-settings-daemon
[15:11] <penguin42> vanishing: OK, so you could check .xsession-errors  but it's very chatty even on a working system
[15:12] <vanishing> penguin42: nope..only about 12 lines...
[15:12] <penguin42> ah, any of them interesting?
[15:12] <vanishing> and its about at-spi2-registryd respawning too fast
[15:13] <penguin42> I don't have that - so I say blame it
[15:14] <vanishing> not even sure what at-api2-registryd is..lol
[15:14] <vanishing> I wish jarvis is real...you can just say..fix it jarvis
[15:21] <vanishing> im gonna reinstall it, install gnome-sessions-flashback and log straight into that...
[15:21] <vanishing> see if that works..(i did install nvidia driver, pf kernel and some other apps)
[15:23] <vanishing> brb in a new life :D
[15:55] <vanishing> its alive
[15:56] <vanishing> penguin42: im back with a new install :D
[16:25] <vanishing> seems like its working..
[17:16] <vanishing> penguin42: I think I found the culprit....
[17:16] <vanishing> nvidia problem...
[17:18] <penguin42> ah, normal culprit
[17:25] <genii> Heh.
[17:30] <vanishing> penguin42: strange though, I made sure nvidia is installed correctly :(
[17:31] <vanishing> upgrading system..see if that breaks anything
[19:14] <Dark_light> I'm not sure this is strictly related to 13.10 but still, after closing a window the foucs is not returned to the desktop so basically if I open files and close it clicking on the X button the writing "Files" is still displayed in the bar on the top left
[19:40] <wilee-nilee> look up a reset on the desktop, be sure it is for that release or at least 13.04
[19:41] <Dark_light> wilee-nilee: I'm not quite sure what I should look up where
[19:42] <wilee-nilee> do younthink
[19:43] <wilee-nilee> do you think you should be running a development then?
[19:45] <Dark_light> it's just not clear what you said
[19:45] <wilee-nilee> a reset of unity is a common topic
[19:46] <Dark_light> I normally don't use it that explains it
[19:47] <wilee-nilee> just a suggestion I can not guarantee that is the fix
[19:47] <Dark_light> I'll give it a shot, it's worth mentioning that I'm on a live session
[19:50] <wilee-nilee> not really applicable to fix probably, could be a number of reasons why you have this happening, hard to say really
[19:53] <Dark_light> unrelated, always in the live session I can't start the software-center it just uses my whole cpu till I kill it
[19:58] <ChogyDan> hey Dark_light, fwiw, I wouldn't bother testing a livecd session like that till one is formally released.  I don't think there were any alphas
[19:59] <ChogyDan> annnnd, the beta is still a week a way it looks like
[20:01] <Ampelbein> Dark_light: Would bug 934189 describe your issue?
[20:01] <Ampelbein> ChogyDan: Alpha2 was on 07/25 as far as I know.
[20:02] <ChogyDan> Ampelbein: but there wasn't an iso
[20:02] <Dark_light> Ampelbein: sort of with the excpeption of conky
[20:03] <Ampelbein> ChogyDan: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-gnome/releases/saucy/alpha-2/ has isos. But maybe I'm misunderstanding.
[20:04] <Ampelbein> Oh, I see now.
[20:05] <ChogyDan> Ampelbein: oh, no, I just couldn't find them.  I'm just used to the schedule having a link
[20:05] <Dark_light> also again unrelated now that there are more (and most importantly in my opinion more useful) lenses is there a way to keep those releated to wikipedia/weather and so forth and just disable the commercial ones?
[20:06] <ChogyDan> Dark_light: I suspect you have to uninstall each package
[20:10] <Dark_light> ChogyDan: imo an option should be there, most people (that I know of) disable them for now since it's mostly commercials but now there are some neat ones that most user could take advantage of, all or nothing is a bit drastic, and removing the packages is overkill (some are also pretty generic)
[20:18] <Dark_light> it's literally not possible to disable the more suggestion scope even under filter results, it reenables it after a few seconds
[20:20] <ChogyDan> Dark_light: fwiw, I think Canonical is still working on it.  So, I don't think it is the final product
[20:21] <Dark_light> hopefully so, some scopes are very useful, but now there are so many one should have an easy way to manage them


[14:49] <ricotz> jbicha, hi, jfyi, the recent firefox 57 beta packages contain a symbolic icon
[14:55] <jbicha> ricotz: looks good
[14:55] <jbicha> that icon still isn't upstream yet, right?
[14:58] <ricotz> jbicha, this svg is part of the source and fits this purpose very well
[14:58] <ricotz> so I hope it won't removed
[15:24] <muelli> so the daily Ubuntu GNOME images are gone..?
[15:25] <jbicha> yes
[15:26] <jbicha> we should do an updated announcement this month, but it was announced months ago that there would not be any new Ubuntu GNOME releases
[15:26] <jbicha> https://ubuntugnome.org/ubuntu-gnome-17-04-released/
[15:34] <muelli> yeah, fair enough. Just wondering.


[03:51] <DasEi1> .
[18:28] <petran> Good afternoon to all people :)
[18:31] <petran> noone is here ?


[11:38] <erichammond> Amazon has released a public beta of AWS Identity and Access Management (IAM).
[11:38] <erichammond> I published a tutorial covering one use case: http://alestic.com/2010/09/aws-iam
[11:39] <erichammond> smoser: How long until we can get an official Ubuntu package for AWS IAM? ;-)
[11:40] <erichammond> It's been publicly available for hours now...
[13:18] <smoser> erichammond, that is awesome!
[18:30] <jo-erlend> KVM with SPICE seems like a really cool combination. Has anyone here successfully used SPICE on Ubuntu? How stable and functional is it, and how difficult is it to install and configure at this point?


[00:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_merger build #1049: SUCCESS in 6 min 31 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_merger/1049/
[00:10] <valorie> mparillo: <3
[00:10] <valorie> I see you already did the beta 1 release notes
[00:10] <valorie> just made of a draft of the news story for it
[00:10] <valorie> thank you
[00:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ruqola build #106: STILL FAILING in 21 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ruqola/106/
[00:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdenetwork-filesharing build #61: STILL UNSTABLE in 27 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdenetwork-filesharing/61/
[00:43] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdeplasma-addons build #87: STILL FAILING in 35 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdeplasma-addons/87/
[00:51] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kdenetwork-filesharing build #21: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kdenetwork-filesharing/21/
[00:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kolourpaint build #57: FAILURE in 1 min 2 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kolourpaint/57/
[01:00] <mparillo> My pleasure.
[01:01] <mparillo> I should be able to update the screenshots and version numbers in late February / early March.
[01:01] <valorie> that's the thing, it's the 22nd already!
[01:01] <valorie> time marches on
[01:01] <mparillo> I do not believe any bugs are tagged with Bionic, but I could be wrong. IIRC, only certain people could do it.
[01:01] <valorie> but we've go the new plasma in the archive so my heart is light
[01:02] <mparillo> Beta is early March, correct?
[01:02] <valorie> it drops the 8th
[01:02] <valorie> so it will be testing from the 3rd on or so
[01:02] <valorie> but dinner time now!
[01:03] <mparillo> Maybe more of a question for acheronuk, but do you think we will still have Plasma .2 and no substantial upgrades to Apps.
[01:03] <valorie> not sure
[01:03] <valorie> I hope for .2 and hope for upgraded apps
[01:03] <valorie> and a new falkon release!
[01:03] <valorie> Any Day Now
[01:04] <mparillo> That is why I was holding off on screen shots and updating theversion numbers in the descriptions. We already have Plasma .2. Santa's iron hand is back and shows it entirely landed.
[01:04] <valorie> coolio
[01:04] <mparillo> Did we decide to ship Falkon?
[01:04] <valorie> we're going to ship it if it is ready
[01:05] <valorie> but not make it The Browser
 Lubuntu Next is shipping it
 :P
[01:05] <valorie> it's gotta be released
[01:05] <valorie> anyway, ciao
[01:05] <mparillo> Hi Simon. Does Lubuntu Next allow for WEP passwords in its network manager.
 @mparillo, I'm not entirely sure if nm-tray does that.
[01:06] <mparillo> It did not last time I tested it.
[01:06] <wxl> i bet it does
 But WEP is insecure and you should upgrade
 Maybe it's a sign XD
[01:07] <mparillo> Funny story (maybe -offtopic), but I got a new router that supports a more secure protocol, but when I thought about chagnging maybe 20 devices, including a printer, where you use arrow keys to select the passwords, I said not thanks. In the suburbs I only see maybe three neighbor's wifi anyway, and none have a strong signal.
[01:08] <mparillo> arrow keys to select the passwords, character by character!
[01:09] <mparillo> In any case, I try to test Lubuntu Next at least once per twice-annual cycle.
 OK, cool
[01:11] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_cantor build #84: FAILURE in 1 min 8 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_cantor/84/
[01:15] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ruqola build #107: STILL FAILING in 40 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ruqola/107/
[01:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_ark build #72: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_ark/72/
[01:30] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ark build #83: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 22 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ark/83/
[01:30] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kalzium build #53: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 22 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kalzium/53/
[01:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_peruse build #52: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 23 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_peruse/52/
[01:32] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kalgebra build #85: FAILURE in 1 min 3 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kalgebra/85/
[01:32] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ktp-common-internals build #81: FAILURE in 1 min 11 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ktp-common-internals/81/
[01:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kolf build #80: FAILURE in 2 min 10 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kolf/80/
[01:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_lskat build #84: FAILURE in 2 min 12 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_lskat/84/
[01:38] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ktp-common-internals build #82: STILL FAILING in 56 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ktp-common-internals/82/
[01:44] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[01:44] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kolourpaint build #58: FIXED in 46 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kolourpaint/58/
[01:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_ktorrent build #74: FAILURE in 1 min 5 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_ktorrent/74/
[01:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_gwenview build #90: FAILURE in 53 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_gwenview/90/
[01:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_amarok build #27: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_amarok/27/
[01:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_discover build #87: FAILURE in 1 hr 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_discover/87/
[01:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_konqueror build #40: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_konqueror/40/
[01:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kblog build #30: FAILURE in 1 hr 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kblog/30/
[01:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kstars build #79: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kstars/79/
[01:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_gwenview build #91: STILL FAILING in 56 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_gwenview/91/
[02:00] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_cantor build #85: NOW UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_cantor/85/
[02:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_purpose build #84: STILL FAILING in 57 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_purpose/84/
[02:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[02:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_lskat build #85: FIXED in 22 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_lskat/85/
[02:02] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[02:02] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kolf build #81: FIXED in 23 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kolf/81/
[02:02] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[02:02] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kalgebra build #86: FIXED in 25 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kalgebra/86/
[02:02] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdeplasma-addons build #88: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 14 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdeplasma-addons/88/
[02:03] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_libksysguard build #51: FAILURE in 1 min 10 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_libksysguard/51/
 Wow, 18.04 is shaping up quite nicely well ahead of beta!
[02:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_breeze build #84: FAILURE in 1 min 48 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_breeze/84/
 I agree :D
[02:08] <valorie> upgrading my travel laptop next week as part of testing
[02:08] <valorie> :-)
[02:08] <tsimonq2> :D
[02:09] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_libksysguard build #52: STILL FAILING in 57 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_libksysguard/52/
 4.15 kernel, libinput 1.10, plasma 5.12.2, fw 5.43, xorg 1.19.6
 Not to forget.... apps 17.12.2
[02:12] <valorie> yes
[02:12] <valorie> are we up-to-date on appls that aren't part of kdeapps?
 vlc is v. 3.0 :)
 which apps did you have in mind?
[02:14] <valorie> not sure what's in and what's out
 repos have wine-64 dev v. 3.3
[02:15] <valorie> vlc isn't a KDE application at all
 But we have it by default...
[02:15] <valorie> buddies, but not us
[02:15] <valorie> yes
[02:15] <valorie> how about sddm?
[02:15] <valorie> isn't there a new version lately?
 Funny enough, I'm working on that right now
 that's why I put a smiley face.
[02:15] <valorie> coolio
 We have 0.14 in Ubuntu, 0.15 in Debian, and I'm working on 0.17 now for both.
 sddm is still 0.14...
 Right
[02:16] <valorie> \o/
 ^what simon said
 :)
 Do you think you will have 0.17 ready before beta?
[02:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[02:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_ktorrent build #75: FIXED in 27 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_ktorrent/75/
[02:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_discover build #88: STILL FAILING in 26 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_discover/88/
[02:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kreport build #23: FAILURE in 1 min 2 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kreport/23/
[02:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kblog build #31: STILL FAILING in 26 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kblog/31/
[02:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_cantor build #52: STILL UNSTABLE in 47 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_cantor/52/
[02:19] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_syndication build #76: FAILURE in 1 min 1 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_syndication/76/
[02:25] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_syndication build #77: STILL FAILING in 1 min 0 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_syndication/77/
 Do you dl sddm straight from github to start the packaging (https://github.com/sddm/sddm/) ?
 @DarinMiller, Oh yeah, should be no issue
 @DarinMiller, No, I use the existing package, bump the changelog, use uscan to grab the new tar from GitHub, then try to run it through sbuild and tackle issues from there.
 i.e. sometimes quilt patches need updating
 Sometimes Lintian starts whining
 makes sense.
 etc.
 sddm has a lintian dep?
 All packages are ran through Lintian
 Lintian is not something to depend on, really
 Oh, OK.
 It's a tool to check your package
 Right
 :)
 I knew "dep" was the wrong word, but I thought Lintian was the language checker portion of packaging tools.... googling....
 https://lintian.debian.org/
 Oh, lintian does many things....
 Right :)
 yep, that's zactly where good took me...
 google
[02:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[02:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_breeze build #85: FIXED in 26 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_breeze/85/
[02:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kcontacts build #78: STILL FAILING in 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kcontacts/78/
[02:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kmailtransport build #57: FAILURE in 1 min 5 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kmailtransport/57/
[02:37] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_libkipi build #84: FAILURE in 1 min 1 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_libkipi/84/
[02:37] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kpimtextedit build #66: FAILURE in 1 min 8 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kpimtextedit/66/
 new pulseaudio (v 1.11) fixes the audio auto switch crash (as promised in the bug report last fall).
 As far as I can tell, this release has very few papercuts.  In fact, I can't think of any for the Xorg side.
[02:39] <valorie> do we have this in a PPA somewhere?
 On the wayland side.... that's another (longer) story, but it is  nearly usable. :)
 ppa?
[02:40] <valorie> so it could be easily tested
[02:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_purpose build #85: STILL FAILING in 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_purpose/85/
 sorry, I don't understand what needs tested.
[02:40] <valorie> the new pulseaudio
 sddm ppa?
 18.04 has pa v  1.11 already in the repos.
 Right
[02:41] <valorie> ah, OK
 All of what he's saying valorie is already there :)
[02:41] <valorie> cool, I didn't understand that
 That's the excitement, all of this stable stuff is landing before beta!
[02:43] <valorie> that is indeed different from the past
[02:43] <valorie> at least since I've been involved
[02:43] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kpimtextedit build #67: STILL FAILING in 55 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kpimtextedit/67/
 I have been using *buntu since 7.10 and this is release is incredibly awesome--the best by far.
[02:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[02:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kreport build #24: FIXED in 26 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kreport/24/
[03:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kcontacts build #79: STILL FAILING in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kcontacts/79/
[03:02] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[03:02] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kmailtransport build #58: FIXED in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kmailtransport/58/
[03:02] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[03:02] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_libkipi build #85: FIXED in 19 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_libkipi/85/
[03:14] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kwin build #92: FAILURE in 1 min 9 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kwin/92/
 \o/
[03:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_krita build #77: STILL UNSTABLE in 3 hr 23 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_krita/77/
 is krunner K-runner or crun-ner?
[03:39] <valorie> I say k runner in my head
[03:40] <valorie> but my fingers say alt space
[03:40] <valorie> :-)
 same I've always said k runner but never bothred to ask before lol
[03:41] <valorie> otoh I say koo buntu
[03:41] <valorie> while some say K ubuntu
 @DarinMiller, I agree this is great thus far. I am so excited to see I have actually contributed to a distro release. . . weird I havent done that before for Kubuntu
[03:42] <valorie> it's great to have you on the team, @MichaelTun
 @valorie, it should be koo-boon-too, just makes sense. Xubuntu and Lubuntu are done the same way
[03:42] <valorie> agreed
 @valorie, You also say Daybian so idk ;)
 @tsimonq2, fair enough lol
[03:42] <valorie> I say deb ian
[03:43] <valorie> 'cause it was deb and ian
[03:43] <valorie> RIP Ian
 deb-ian and debian sound so similar that even if said with a slight pause it still works
 and yea rip ian
 @valorie, Nonono … You say DAY bien … Emphasis on the A in the middle :P
 :D
[03:44] <valorie> and you say?
 RIP Ian
 dehb
 Dehb ee an
[03:45] <valorie> well, that's how Deb is said
 short sound e
[03:45] <valorie> fight!
[03:45] <valorie> lol
 Lol
 I am confused do you say dayborah?
[03:45] <valorie> nope
[03:45] <valorie> lo;
[03:45] <valorie> l
[03:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kxmlrpcclient build #60: FAILURE in 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kxmlrpcclient/60/
 can IRC get voice clips?
[03:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_messagelib build #133: STILL FAILING in 44 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_messagelib/133/
 (Voice, 2s)https://irc-attachments.kde.org/qbiAtwnE/file_4872.oga
[03:47] <valorie> not directly
[03:47] <valorie> but via matrix or telegram, yeah
[03:47] <valorie> worked
 (Voice, 1s)https://irc-attachments.kde.org/NFtvPFRg/file_4873.oga
[03:50] <valorie> that's how I saw it too, at least in my imagination....
 (Voice, 4s)https://irc-attachments.kde.org/eATzN2ej/file_4874.oga
[03:53] <valorie> same, but not with the accent!
 The accent might be weird from me as well :)
 the KDE documentation is so weird sometimes, for example:
 KWin (pronounced "kwin" in one word)
 that is not helpful because k-win or qwin are both 1 word.
[04:02] <valorie> yup -- I say quin
 Whaaat
 I say Kay Win
[04:03] <valorie> it is KDE's windowing system
[04:04] <valorie> so you are probably more correct on that
[04:07] <ahoneybun> xD
[04:10] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kxmlrpcclient build #61: STILL FAILING in 18 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kxmlrpcclient/61/
[04:10] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kjs build #78: FAILURE in 1 min 4 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kjs/78/
 I say k-win but I think Riddell says quin but I might be imagining that
[04:14] <valorie> Martin says quin
[04:14] <valorie> and since he's the maintainer, I just copied him
 martin was the original dev right? I suppose that answers it then
[04:22] <valorie> not sure if he was the original maintainer or not, but I met him a loooong time ago
[04:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_messagelib build #134: STILL FAILING in 31 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_messagelib/134/
 oh ok
[04:25] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[04:25] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kwin build #93: FIXED in 1 hr 6 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kwin/93/
[04:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[04:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kjs build #79: FIXED in 18 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kjs/79/
[05:10] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_sonnet build #62: FAILURE in 1 min 5 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_sonnet/62/
 Kdenlive announced a Cafe . . . a few hours before doing it. That marketing is so stellar
[05:33] <Perigee> Hah I noticed that too
[05:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[05:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_sonnet build #63: FIXED in 18 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_sonnet/63/
[08:16] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-framework build #71: FAILURE in 1 min 19 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-framework/71/
[08:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[08:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_konqueror build #139: FIXED in 36 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_konqueror/139/
[08:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[08:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_konqueror build #133: FIXED in 37 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_konqueror/133/
[08:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[08:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_konqueror build #51: FIXED in 37 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_konqueror/51/
[09:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[09:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_konqueror build #41: FIXED in 40 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_konqueror/41/
[09:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[09:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_konqueror build #249: FIXED in 40 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_konqueror/249/
[09:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[09:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-framework build #72: FIXED in 40 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-framework/72/
[09:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[09:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_konqueror build #109: FIXED in 41 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_konqueror/109/
[09:56] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kbookmarks build #55: FAILURE in 1 min 4 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kbookmarks/55/
[10:02] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kbookmarks build #56: STILL FAILING in 58 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kbookmarks/56/
[10:03] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kirigami2 build #76: FAILURE in 1 min 4 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kirigami2/76/
[10:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[10:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kirigami2 build #77: FIXED in 23 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kirigami2/77/
 @nggraham @MichaelTun https://cgit.kde.org/plasma-desktop.git/commit/?id=b2588104cc562a0500b32c186aa11a6b8affddc4
[10:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[10:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[10:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ktp-common-internals build #83: FIXED in 31 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ktp-common-internals/83/
[10:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kpimtextedit build #68: FIXED in 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kpimtextedit/68/
[10:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[10:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_syndication build #78: FIXED in 32 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_syndication/78/
[10:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_gwenview build #92: STILL FAILING in 32 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_gwenview/92/
[11:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_gwenview build #93: STILL FAILING in 31 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_gwenview/93/
[12:10] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2078: SUCCESS in 53 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2078/
[12:10] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #2078: SUCCESS in 1 min 4 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/2078/
[12:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #2078: SUCCESS in 3 min 47 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/2078/
[12:28] <gpunk> plasma is very slow since this morning update
[12:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[12:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kbookmarks build #57: FIXED in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kbookmarks/57/
[14:08] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-desktop build #91: FAILURE in 1 min 31 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-desktop/91/
[14:09] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-desktop build #92: STILL FAILING in 1 min 7 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-desktop/92/
[14:11] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-desktop build #93: STILL FAILING in 48 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-desktop/93/
[14:16] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-desktop build #94: STILL FAILING in 31 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-desktop/94/
[14:21] <acheronuk> yofel: linode seems to be the main culprit for failing on adding the PPA. racy condition as it is just very fast?
[14:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_plasma-desktop build #223: FAILURE in 3 min 49 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_plasma-desktop/223/
[14:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_plasma-desktop build #345: STILL FAILING in 3 min 49 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_plasma-desktop/345/
[14:23] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_plasma-desktop build #229: FAILURE in 5 min 8 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_plasma-desktop/229/
[14:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_plasma-desktop build #158: STILL FAILING in 5 min 54 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_plasma-desktop/158/
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/FcfcNTqJ/file_4889.webp
[14:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_plasma-desktop build #346: STILL FAILING in 3 min 44 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_plasma-desktop/346/
[14:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_plasma-desktop build #224: STILL FAILING in 3 min 44 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_plasma-desktop/224/
[14:32] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_plasma-desktop build #230: STILL FAILING in 3 min 42 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_plasma-desktop/230/
[14:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_plasma-desktop build #159: STILL FAILING in 3 min 41 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_plasma-desktop/159/
[15:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-desktop build #95: NOW UNSTABLE in 1 hr 2 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-desktop/95/
[15:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2079: SUCCESS in 46 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2079/
[15:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #2079: SUCCESS in 1 min 5 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/2079/
[15:48] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #2079: SUCCESS in 3 min 44 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/2079/
[16:50] <yofel> hm maybe... but speed wise I would assume that master would also fail on occasion
[16:50] <yofel> I'll look into it later
[16:51] <acheronuk> I was slightly clutching at straws there
[16:51] <acheronuk> thanks
 Neon has added Qt 5.10
 @MichaelTun, Yes
[18:04] <blaze> aaand… guess what, it's bad
 Huh?
 @acheronuk Are these Phonon releases something we should pick up?
 @tsimonq2, Possibly
 Nice. Looks like building against the new mesa and/or libglvnd in proposed has screwed our desktop opengl rendering
 now we default to llvmpipe on intel
 ick
[18:50] <mamarley> acheronuk: I don't think that is happening on my system.  How are you checking?
 if you purge libglvnd0 and libegl you get full opengl back
 @mamarley, Live system on kabylake
 renders only with llvmpipe
[18:52] <blaze> glxinfo | grep renderer
 remove those and you get it back (losing kinfocentre which oddly now depends on them)
[18:52] <mamarley> I see "OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Intel(R) HD Graphics 530 (Skylake GT2)" in glxinfo on this bionic-proposed system.
 mamarly it could well be -release only, caused by building against proposed
 blaze. yep, that is how I checked.
[18:54] <mamarley> Ah, yes, that sounds correct.
 also have several reports from users of bionic of the same.
[18:57] <mamarley> It is probably worth reporting in #ubuntu-x.
[19:00] <acheronuk> just doing
[19:59] -queuebot:#kubuntu-devel- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Xenial 16.04.4] (20180223.1) has been added
[19:59] -queuebot:#kubuntu-devel- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop i386 [Xenial 16.04.4] (20180223.1) has been added
[20:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kinfocenter build #478: STILL FAILING in 3 min 42 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kinfocenter/478/
[20:15] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_kinfocenter build #62: STILL FAILING in 5 min 44 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_kinfocenter/62/
[20:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kinfocenter build #479: STILL FAILING in 4 min 32 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kinfocenter/479/
[20:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_kinfocenter build #63: STILL FAILING in 4 min 33 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_kinfocenter/63/
[20:50] <yofel> [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'S.gpg-agent.ssh'
[20:50] <yofel> kind of good thing: I can reproduce it. bad thing: that error really doesn't tell much about that's wrong -_-
[20:50] <yofel> hm, could also be LXC interfering..
[21:12]  * yofel wonders why apt is doing everything in /tmp these days
 @nggraham https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/1.10.4-1ubuntu2
 c'est magnifique
 lets hope it really works!
 seriously
 I'll be able to test sometime this weekend, if nobody beats me to it
 with default settings, it only manifests in the live session, not during an actual install
 I can try on the latop I just borrowed to test that opengl issue as well
 I had the bug on today's iso, so that is a good comparison :)
 So this isn't limited to Kubuntu, but it's a major papercut: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1639863
 because of this, Firefox and Thunderbird don't show up in KDE Discover
 wow. that sat dorment for a bit!
 yes, sadly
[21:43] <acheronuk> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1447144
[21:43] <acheronuk> I REALLY want to get that sorted!
[21:48] <valorie> props to you two for getting this stuff DONE
 While we're at it, if you open Discover on Kubuntu (any version), you'll notice that the app icons are all ugly and pixellated. This is apparently a packaging issue, but in Neon, they're crisp and sharp. I don't know what Neon is doing differently, but we might want to copy it, if possible. Might wanna ask Jonathan Riddell or Harald Sitter?
[21:55] <valorie> they are indeed pixely
[21:55] <valorie> in artful
 yeah, hideous
 it's a really poor user experience, but apparently it's possible to somehow change because every single icon in KDE Neon is pretty, and that's based on 16.04 and I'm pretty sure they didn't re-package *everything*
[21:57] <yofel> hm, this really seems to be a race condition of some sort
[21:59] <yofel> software-properties creates a keyring in a temporary folder, gnupg launches an agent to manage it, software-properties tries to delete the folder to clean up after itself... and fails, leaving a random set of files behind, e.g. the dirmngr socket etc.
[22:09] <valorie> any ideas about those icons acheronuk, simon, or yofel
[22:09] <valorie> nate -- they literally DO repackage everything, even if they use our packaging
[22:10] <valorie> all built by machine, basically
 oh hmm
 for example see https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=370350
[22:12] <valorie> but somehow we are using the small icon and blowing them up or something instead of using the bigger version?
 and https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=388253
[22:12] <yofel> hm, could be that we don't ship the appropriate size by default? I don't think we split that these days, but we did in the past
[22:12] <yofel> I doubt that optipng would be messing with the quality..
 @valorie, Exactly, the Ubuntu packaging provides small icons, and in Discover we display them larger then that, so they get blown up and pixellated
[22:13] <valorie> sounds like a packaging bug then
 yes, but for every single package
[22:13] <valorie> perhaps we're not pulling in the proper SVGs
[22:13] <valorie> somewhere along the line
 it seems to be a systemic issue or a policy decision or something
[22:14] <yofel> let me install discover......
 the Plasma 5.12 version is getting better, in case you hated it before
[22:15] <yofel> yeah, I rage-uninstalled it some 2 years ago
 I'm on a mission to make it not suck
[22:18] <yofel> nate++
 because having a good software center is really important
 in one year, you will love it
 hopefully by now, you at least no longer hate it, and are only merely annoyed by it :)
 Check out https://pointieststick.wordpress.com/category/discover/
 (just published this week's post)
[22:21] <acheronuk> we inherited this from debian: https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/discover/tree/debian/extra/60plasma-discover?h=kubuntu_bionic_archive
[22:21] <acheronuk> but it should be fetching hi and low res
[22:21] <yofel> that looks right..
[22:21] <acheronuk> though not sure ppa builds generate them
 hmm, I can confirm that they look bad even without using the Backports PPA
[22:22] <yofel> the bug report has gedit as example, so I don't think the PPA matters here
[22:26] <valorie> wow, the icons are so crisp and clear in your blogpost, nate
[22:26] <valorie> now I really see what you mean
 yeah, all my screenshots are from Neon
[22:26] <valorie> getting this fixed for the LTS would be Good
 (I do my dev work in a Neon VM)
[22:28] <yofel> ouch, this really looks horrible
[22:28] <valorie> sitter, sgclark, Riddell -- any of you recall what you did differently for icons in neon than you used to do in Kubuntu?
 yeah, and people blame Discover :(
[22:28] <yofel> *headscratch*
[22:28] <wxl> did they just suddenly go bad?
[22:28] <valorie> to be fair, it was easy to blame discover for lots of things
 no, they've been bad for years apparently
[22:28] <valorie> dunno how long they have been bad
[22:29] <wxl> THAT's a problem.
[22:29] <yofel> let's say there's a historic incentive for that
[22:29] <valorie> yes
 yeah, Discover has been not-so-great for a long time
[22:29] <wxl> wait, this is only in discover?
 But I'm really trying to turn the ship around
[22:29] <wxl> (sorry didn't read all the backlog)
 yes
 it doesn't show up in GNOME Software because they use smaller icons by default
 they use 64x64 IIRC, which is considered the "small" size. We use 80x80 and bigger
[22:31] <wxl> and these are the category icons, right? or all icons?
[22:31] <yofel> hm, according to strace, discover isn't trying to open anything but the 64x64 img
 https://i.imgur.com/3MHSrdD.png
 @wxl, the actual app icons
 Can we use the size provided by the package without upscaling it if it’s smaller than needed ?
[22:31] <sgclark> valorie: I have no clue sorry :(
 Just center it on the rect
 @acheronuk, that is a VM seems to only be fetching the 64x64
[22:32] <wxl> it looks like SOME of them are bad
[22:32] <wxl> like Guake looks like garbage, but VirtualBox looks sharp
 @acheronuk, so there are higher-resolution icons that we're simply not fetching?
 @wxl, Make sure Virtualbox is coming from Ubuntu packaging and not Flathub for example; all their icons are good
 @nggraham, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic/main/dep11/
[22:33] <wxl> fwiw i'm running this on trusty.
 Hmm, feels like a packaging or config issue then. Again, Discover succeeds at fetching and displaying high-rec icons in all other distros that I've seen and used
 It's good in Neon, Arch (and derivatives), Fedora, and openSUSE
 @wxl, Without the backports PPA, the version of discover you're using is hideously old then
[22:34] <wxl> yeah, well, i never use discover anyways :)
[22:35] <valorie> that was interesting -- tried to expand the panel way up to see how the icons scaled, and it froze the desktop
[22:35] <valorie> had to restart
 (Photo, 844x648) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/GeKRZlVV/file_4905.jpg
 is that other apt config file overriding discover's?
 @acheronuk, that looks like it's a problem
 where does that file live?
[22:37] <valorie> thanks sgclark
[22:37] <yofel>  /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50appstream
 does lower or higher number have priority? I forget!
[22:38] <yofel> the discover config file should override that though
[22:39] <yofel> I *think* lower, as in they're read in the file listing order
[22:39] <yofel> erm, higher
[22:40] <yofel> wait a moment
[22:41] <yofel> deb::DEP-11-icons-hidpi is not 128, that's<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:41] <yofel> 128 is deb::DEP-11-icons-large and deb::DEP-11-icons-large-hidpi
[22:43] <yofel> hm, now apt is at least downloading the 128 images, but discover isn't actually loading them
 If you discover any bugs with Discover 😜 let me know and I'll fix them
[22:45] <acheronuk> yofel: oh, so that whole 60discover is the 64x ones, and 12 are turned off in 50appstream?
[22:45] <yofel> right
[22:45] <acheronuk> *128 are
[22:45] <yofel> Get:33 http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic/universe DEP-11 128x128 Icons [19,2 MB]
[22:45] <yofel> but where did it actually put them.....
[22:45] <acheronuk> duh, I misread that for a long time then
[22:46] <yofel> I only realized that too when I wondered why 50 appstream had 4 config blocks and actually read them..
[22:47] <yofel> well duh
[22:47] <acheronuk>  /var/lib/app-info/icons/
[22:47] <yofel> after enabling that you need to FORCE an appstream cache update for it to pick it up
[22:47] <valorie> :(
[22:48] <yofel> hey, my icons look pretty.  Kdenlive and ktorrent are ugly o.O
 that might be an issue with those individual packages
[22:49] <yofel> true
[22:49] <acheronuk> mine are all pretty as well!
[22:49] <acheronuk> *mostly
 ok, so this is fantastic. Is there a Discover bug here, or is it all Debian packaging?
[22:50] <yofel> packaging
[22:50] <yofel> well, appstream configuration really
[22:50] <yofel> I guess debian decided that users don't need to waste network bandwidth on a bit prettier icons
[22:51] <yofel> a bit annoying that there's no way to make that decision based on connection type
 booooo
 this is 2018
[22:51] <yofel> yeah, where many people use they notebooks over mobile connections with limited monthly bandwidth
[22:51] <yofel> welcome in the 21st century
[22:51] <yofel> *their
 so what's the path forward here? Can we override it in Ubuntu or Kubuntu, or so we have to/should we go to Debian instead?
[22:52] <yofel> we can override it if wanted. That config file is shipped by the discover package
[22:52] <acheronuk> can't change the 50appstream I assume
[22:52] <acheronuk> so we match the appstream one, but enable 128?
[22:52] <acheronuk> if we want users to have these
[22:53] <yofel> I enabled 128 in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/60plasma-discover, and that works for me
[22:53] <yofel> just the auto-cache-refresh didn't work
[22:54] <acheronuk> no? damn
[22:54] <yofel> "AppStream cache update is not necessary." is what I got
[22:54] <yofel> worked after --force
[22:54] <yofel> sounds like some kind of appstream apt integration bug to me
[22:55] <yofel> where's matthias when you need him..
[22:55] <yofel> hm, missed him by half an hour
 looks like Discover doesn't actually ship that file, or at least I can't find it in our repo
 maybe it's provided by Debian or Ubuntu packagers?
[22:55] <yofel> huh?
[22:55] <yofel> $ dpkg -S /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/60plasma-discover
[22:55] <yofel> plasma-discover: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/60plasma-discover
[22:55] <acheronuk> it's debian
[22:56] <yofel> well yes, it's part of the packaging
[22:56] <acheronuk> was added by debian
[22:56] <yofel> not the upstream source
[22:56] <acheronuk> in debian/extras/
 yeah, looks like we need Matthias then
[22:57] <yofel> anyway, this works for me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/T3mzCnXvg3/
[22:57] <yofel> and should do the jobs for fresh installs at least
[22:57] <yofel> or whenever appstream decides to refresh the cache itself
[22:57] <acheronuk> that is 90% better than we had
 yep yep yep
 thanks so much guys for this investigation
 if anyone here is familiar with the Debian bug tracker, could you file a bug? I've never been able to get their procrustean email-based bug tracker to actually work for me
[22:59] <acheronuk> haha. 90% of the time the debian BTS eats my bug emails without trace!
[23:00] <yofel> 90% of the time their bts just annoys me and I stop bothering. Guess it works as intended
 I cannot imagine how that project manages with such a crude tool
[23:01] <yofel> well, they don't need a spam filter by requring people to actually know what they're doing. And as long as you can use email it works rather well
[23:01] <acheronuk> I think it perfectly matches the prevailing attitude there
[23:01] <yofel> and heck, they use emails for internal server communication. So it does feel very like debian
 can anyone provide a link to a web page that shows the file in the debian packaging repo?
 https://salsa.debian.org/qt-kde-team/kde/plasma-discover/blob/master/debian/extra/60plasma-discover
 lurvley, thank you!
[23:05] <acheronuk> so shall I change that? or we want to do some more tests first?
[23:07] <yofel> I guess people can live with some 20MB more for a package cache refresh, so I'll +1 it
 wow, @ximion just fixed it
 https://salsa.debian.org/qt-kde-team/kde/plasma-discover/commit/ead46cbea3335f9eaeb37302cdfa2020d3d00c32
 Thanks! Can we also get the -hidpi versions of them, too?
 tired of playing telephone here :)
 Oh heyyyy
 :D
[23:10] <yofel> o/
 LOL
 so just icons-large not icons-large-hidpi?
 yes, he is objecting to that
[23:12] <ximion> ideally sync the whole package with Debian...
 we might have to do that ourselves if Debian doesn't want to make that change
[23:13] <ximion> I just looked at it, and the Ubuntu version is quite different from what we have in Debian, even shipping differently named packages for backends
[23:13] <yofel> what's the problem with hidpi?
[23:13] <ximion> yofel: it gets downloaded unconditionally, and people complain hard about that
[23:16] <yofel> hm, either we don't have those in ubuntu, or my apt config is just ignoring the hidpi setting
 so uh, looks like it's gonna be up to us if we want Discover to show nice icons for people using HiDPI displays
 @nggraham, it usually is us 🙄
 This is why I'm here instead of Debian :p
[23:19] <yofel> ximion: one more thing, shouldn't changing this trigger an appstream cache refresh? Here (0.11.8), it doesn't and I need --force for the icon size to get deployed
 Things have different names, as debian is so late to the party and then decide to be the oddball
[23:19] <ximion> Ubuntu has no HiDPI icons, as far as I know
[23:20] <ximion> it's appstream-generator is too old or has this feature disabled
 right
[23:20] <yofel> okay, so we can save us the trouble for that
[23:21] <valorie> I have hidpi and I vote for having hidpi icons everywhere possible
[23:21] <ximion> looking at the times, Debian was faster on updating this than Ubuntu, and blaming someone as oddball really doesn't help collaboration
[23:21] <valorie> thanks for your help on this ximion
[23:22] <valorie> I think we're frustrated that this bug crept in and kept things ugly for so long
[23:22] <yofel> no, but merging is so much effort that it doesn't make sense to do this all the time. And debian deciding how to name things whenever they want doesn't help.
[23:22] <yofel> but now I'm rambling agian. I'll shut up
[23:22] <ximion> valorie: for that you would first need to have hiDPI icon tarballs in Ubuntu, they don't exist there at all
[23:23] <valorie> ximion: we've got an LTS looming, and want to polish it as much as possible
[23:23] <yofel> but yes, thanks a lot for poking in and helping!
[23:23] <ximion> valorie: ask Laney for an appstream-generator update, I would like that as well ;-)
[23:23] <valorie> ximion: boo on that, but i've been living without it I guess
 wee added the backend packages nearly a year ago. debian a month ago. I was refering to that
 and I didn't mean to offend
[23:24] <valorie> ximion: will do
[23:24] <ximion> (it's difficult though, because I didn't have time to work on this for Ubuntu, and Laney might not have time either, especially since asgen will likely require a newer version of Ubuntu - more recent versions don't run on Xenial anymore)
 fwiw, it looks a million time better here already. so I count that a win
 thank you
[23:26] <ximion> in any case, sorry that I can help more, I am in the middle of packing my stuff to leave for skiing tomorrow
[23:26] <valorie> oooo, fun!
[23:26] <yofel> enjoy the trip
 ximion: lucky you!
[23:27] <valorie> do we have to ask Laney or can we just do this?
[23:27] <valorie> tsimonq2: ^^^
[23:27] <ximion> also, this is the perfect example of why centralizing this apt snippet in a package makes sense, I think I'll go ahead with that plan later (beginning of March), so no package falls out of sync
[23:27] <tsimonq2> huh
[23:27] <tsimonq2> what
 thanks again for your help!
 I'm so happy we won't ship 18.04 with ugly icons
[23:27] <valorie> read up a bit re  appstream-generator update
[23:27] <valorie> oooo, snowing here again
 @valorie, that is ubuntu
[23:28] <ximion> valorie: ask Laney, unless you want to do really dirty things like injecting data (eww!)
[23:28] <ximion> yofel: thanks! Btw, I haven't seen you a loong time! Nice to know you're still there :-)
[23:28] <valorie> lol
[23:29] <tsimonq2> valorie: name of the source package?
[23:29] <yofel> yeah, being just fed up with IRC for a couple months didn't really work out. So I'm back for the time being ^^
[23:30] <acheronuk> we are very pleased you are back as much as you are now
[23:30] <ximion> valorie: asgen is a server-side service running somewhere at Canonical infrastructure. The package for the service itself in Bionic is fully up2date
[23:30] <valorie> !info  appstream-generator
[23:31] <valorie> tsimonq2: ^^^
[23:31] <valorie> needs updating
[23:32] <valorie> yofel: recently I decided to just set myself away when I was tired of reading IRC, and it makes a big difference
[23:33] <tsimonq2> valorie: That's in-sync with Debian.
[23:33] <valorie> ximion: ^^^
[23:34] <yofel> I just don't open IRC at all. Which is why I'm not reachable at all then. Not quite sure yet whether I want Telegram back..
[23:34] <ximion> [00:30] <ximion> valorie: asgen is a server-side service running somewhere at Canonical infrastructure. The package for the service itself in Bionic is fully up2date
[23:34] <tsimonq2> The *only* difference is that it was no-change rebuilt for a transition.
[23:34] <yofel> btw. what's the intended release date for 16.04.04? The schedule says 15th, but I'm seeing images popping up?
[23:34] <valorie> Monday I think
[23:34] <ximion> the package doesn't need updating in Bionic, but the service needs updating at Canonical
[23:34] <tsimonq2> yofel: March 1st
[23:34] <yofel> thanks
[23:35] <valorie> ah, thanks for the enlightenment
[23:35] <tsimonq2> ximion: Mind emailing<EMAIL_ADDRESS>with that, or telling me what to write?
[23:35] <valorie> so that's why Laney needs pinging then
 @acheronuk tritemio is about to be fully restored, it has been building everything for a while
[23:35] <ximion> I can only email stuff in after a week - I won't touch a computer the next week, if I am lucky :P
[23:36] <ximion> the problem with updating asgen is that newer versions require a newer GLib that's not available on Xenial, which is what's running on the server composing the data
[23:36] <ximion> as far as I know
[23:36] <tsimonq2> OK
[23:37] <ximion> btw, the service in question produces this: http://appstream.ubuntu.com/
[23:37] <ximion> (additional to the actual data, that is part of archive.ubuntu.com)
[23:38] <valorie> appstream becomes more and more important
[23:38] <valorie> @Santa that's good news
[23:39] <valorie> without good appstream info we don't get up-to-date info and images for apps
 ...and then people blame Discover for it
 @Santa, great. with tests?
 ^
[23:40] <tsimonq2> ximion: So wait, discover pulls from appstream.ubuntu.com?
[23:41] <ximion> nope, from archive.ubuntu.com
[23:41] <acheronuk> no
[23:41] <ximion> and Discover doesn't pull anything, APT does
[23:41] <tsimonq2> I'm confused then, what's the problem?
[23:41] <ximion> AppStream data is part of the archive metadata, just like Packages and Sources and Contents files
[23:42] <ximion> that apparently people want hidpi icons, which the older version of asgen that Ubuntu uses to generate the data doesn't support
[23:42] <acheronuk> but an external service has to make it?
[23:42] <acheronuk> and not the normal LP builders
[23:42] <tsimonq2> Maybe it's part of the archive tooling itself?
[23:43] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: look at neon CI. It has it's own appstream jobs
 @acheronuk, Yep http://gpul.grupos.udc.es/build-status/buildstatus_ubuntu-exp3/
[23:44] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: Right, but we don't share archive tooling with them
[23:44] <acheronuk> which is one reason why they have had better data than us for the things they do generate for
[23:44] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: but the idea is the same
[23:44] <valorie> and prettier icons!
[23:44] <ximion> a server running asgen downloads data from the internet, which builders can not. It also does some operations like rendering SVGs and scaling images from 3rd-party sources, which are potentially a security risk and therefore are usually isolated on a separate machine
 \o/
[23:45]  * ximion now really needs to get to packing his luggage
 uploaded that small change anyway for now. lets see how that changes real installs :)
[23:51] <valorie> have a great week ximion
[23:51] <valorie> thanks again for the information and collaboration
[23:56] <ximion> :-)
[23:58] <valorie> tsimonq2: are you writing that email or talking to Laney about this issue?
 so do we need to do anything to pick up that change that ximion just made?
[23:58] <tsimonq2> valorie: I'm waiting on ximion ;)
[23:59] <valorie> that is the easiest but it would be good to get this done before the LTS
[23:59] <valorie> if possible
 @nggraham, To 60discover?


[06:24] <balloons> elfy, a most curious notion. i love riddles. Let's see
[06:24] <balloons> Perhaps you were born there?
[06:25] <elfy> that took you that long?
[06:25] <elfy> :p
[06:28] <elfy> balloons: you having fun on your jolly?
[06:28] <elfy> have you been to the only sandy beach?
[06:29] <balloons> elfy, couldn't sleep all night waiting for your response
[06:29] <balloons> elfy, I have not. It's on the north end of the island I here?
[06:30] <elfy> from memory it is - sort of north and round the corner
[06:30] <elfy> and have you been on one of the mad buses ?
[06:31] <balloons> I've seen pics of the old buses; converted from british army trucks
[06:31] <balloons> crazy thins
[06:31] <balloons> *things
[06:31] <elfy> when I went they were still using them :p
[10:03] <rbasak> pitti: do we have a bug on dep8 tests not run on SRUs?
[10:04] <rbasak> I have a case where I want this as part of a wider effort, so want something to refer to current status of it.
[10:04] <pitti> rbasak: ah, we can run them manually if desired, but we don't run britney on stables
[10:04] <pitti> rbasak: perhaps we should though, even for SRUs
[10:05] <rbasak> pitti: we want to do this though, right?
[10:05] <rbasak> pitti: can I file a bug to track this, and if so, what should it be filed against?
[10:05] <pitti> it would certainly be another nice barrier to avoid publishing broken stuff
[10:06] <pitti> rbasak: hmm, good question -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/britney isn't configured
[10:06] <pitti> rbasak: so perhaps just "ubuntu" with subscribing the release team?
[10:06] <rbasak> pitti: ack. Thanks!
[10:10] <rbasak> Filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1321691
[14:31] <gQuigs> so the bug squad is going away into this team?  is this the right place to get a bug made public? https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/eecf81376420b8611d48d3e0a0c6ca8509e58e10
[15:10] <balloons> gQuigs, you can still use #ubuntu-bugs
[15:12] <gQuigs> which team should I join if I want to help more with bug triage?
[15:28] <balloons> gQuigs, you can join the quality team
[15:29] <balloons> gQuigs, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles/BugTriager
[15:37] <knome> poo, inkscape crashed
[15:37] <knome> talk about quality ;)
[16:26] <elfy> balloons: ping