[00:03] <maxb> Purely ooi, and because I'm attempting to copy it for use in my own project, is it correct that db patches don't necessarily land in numerical order?
[00:06] <wgrant> Correct.
[00:31] <maxb> wgrant: Does Launchpad work with python2.6/lucid at all for you now? I am now getting the distribute pain on multiple lucid machines, and it looks like it ought to reproduce 100%
[00:32] <wgrant> maxb: I forget if I still have everything downgraded.
[00:32]  * wgrant tries.
[00:32] <wgrant> I appear to have the latest version of python-distribute and python-pkg-sources.
[00:32] <wgrant> er, *resources
[00:33] <wgrant> There is still the zope.interface issue, but that's all I have held.
[00:33] <maxb> Hmm. I wonder if I apt-get install python-distribute, it will work for me
[00:33] <wgrant> And I did a tree build (not from scratch, but from a fresh branch) this morning.
[00:33] <maxb> zope.interface issue?
[00:33] <wgrant> I don't have python-distribute installed.
[00:33] <maxb> huh
[00:34] <wgrant> Builds were failing a couple of weeks ago for me because LP wants zope.interface 3.5.2, while Lucid has 3.5.3.
[00:34] <maxb> how odd. I can't even run bootstrap.py without hacking ez_setup.py
[00:34] <wgrant> What's the error you're getting now?
[00:34] <wgrant> Right, I was in that situation for a while.
[00:34] <wgrant> But it works now.
[00:35] <maxb>     PYTHONPATH=ws.find(pkg_resources.Requirement.parse('setuptools')).location)
[00:35] <maxb> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'location'
[00:35] <maxb> ugh, how mysterious
[00:36] <wgrant> Yeah, that one...
[00:36] <wgrant> It was never particularly reproducible.
[00:37] <maxb> perplexing. ok.
[00:38] <sidnei> maxb, i think gary was working on that issue. he helped me get past that on lazr-js
[00:39] <maxb> I would imagine so. Poor gary gets stuck with all the buildout insanity :-)
[00:39] <sidnei> maxb, if you fetch the bootstrap.py from lp:lazr-js it *might* work, though the command line options changed a little bit.
[00:39] <maxb> that could be interesting
[00:57]  * thumper drags attention back to email jobs
[01:24] <thumper> utilities/ec2 land --dry-run lp:~james-w/launchpad/export-code-import
[01:52] <thumper> mwhudson: do you remember the simple way we should be getting a store now? (in a test)
[01:52] <mwhudson> thumper: IStore(ModelClass) ?
[01:53] <thumper> ta
[01:54] <thumper> oh FFS, why is it in canonical.launchpad.interfaces...
[02:07] <wgrant> Is there a place for all that Foundations stuff to go?
[02:13] <thumper> wgrant: like what?
[02:14] <wgrant> thumper: Most of the Foundations stuff still lives in canonical.$NONLOGICALCONGLOMERATIONOFPACKAGES
[02:14] <thumper> wgrant: well, specifics?
[02:14] <wgrant> c.l.webapp
[02:15] <thumper> wgrant: most foundational stuff should go into lp.services
[02:15] <wgrant> The Storm utilities.
[02:15] <thumper> we should probably have lp.services.storm
[02:15] <thumper> lp.app.webapp maybe?
[02:15] <wgrant> Probably.
[02:15] <wgrant> Maybe.
[02:15] <thumper> or lp.services.webapp
[02:15] <mwhudson> and call it something else
[02:17] <spm> lp.services.AAAAAAAAA
[02:18] <spm> oops. did I type that in? sorry....  >:)
[03:36] <mwhudson> gara!
[03:37]  * mwhudson fights the database restore
[03:38]  * wgrant is bemused by the existence of lib/canonical/not-used
[03:38] <wgrant> It contains only an empty directory -- hctapi, of all things.
[03:39] <spm> at least the naming is self-referentially correct :-)
[03:39] <mwhudson> wgrant: i
[03:39] <mwhudson> 'll review a branch removing it
[03:40] <thumper> spm: heh
[03:41] <wgrant> It's also tempting to kill canonical.doap and lp.archivepublisher.library. Both have been untouched and unused for at least four years.
[03:45] <thumper> ✁☹
[03:45] <thumper> silly team inconsistencies with the rest of the codebase
[03:45] <thumper> .teamowner vs .owner for *everything* elase
[03:55]  * thumper pushes up pipe 2 of 4 for email job work
[03:57] <wgrant> thumper: Well, teamowner is special, given that it defines the type of the object.
[03:57] <thumper> wgrant: yeah, I know
[03:58] <thumper> wgrant: it could just be called owner and have the same impact
[03:58] <wgrant> Possibly.
[03:59] <spm> mwhudson: ref the DB restore; also triggered a nagios alert on "staging in restore mode for > 1 hour"; the actual "outage" part of a staging restore was 62 minutes. ouchies. ie sync new code; build it; (~45 mins) alter _new DB's and re-start, ~ 17mins.
[03:59] <mwhudson> spm: ugh
[04:00] <mwhudson> it would be really nice to ratchet make build time down some
[04:11]  * thumper EODs the 1/2 day
[07:59] <jtv> Is launchpad totally unresponsive (beyond the front pages) for anyone else?
[08:00] <wgrant> jtv: WFM
[08:01] <adeuring> good morning
[08:10] <jtv> wgrant: for example, do you get https://code.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+activereviews ?
[08:10] <jtv> hi adeuring
[08:10] <adeuring> ji jtv!
[08:14] <spm> jtv: I do/can
[08:15] <jtv> hmm...
[08:15] <jtv> I've got no problem with https to our wikis, or to the front page, but I can't access anything useful on LP
[08:15] <spm> diff browser? and or sniff network traffic?
[08:15]  * wgrant can too.
[08:15] <jtv> time to check /etc/hosts
[08:16] <jtv> /etc/hosts is fine.  :/
[08:16] <spm> jtv: is "I can't access anything useful on LP" some sort of reference to the info hosted by LP? or a network access type of comment? :-P
[08:16] <jtv> spm: I can't access code, bugs, or translations pages for any projects I've tried.
[08:16] <spm> awesome
[08:16] <spm> try a different browser?
[08:16]  * wgrant deletes 10KLOC
[08:17] <spm> wgrant: only 220K more to go!
[08:17] <jtv> spm: heyy, that did the trick!
[08:17] <jtv> so... why doesn't it work in chromium!?
[08:18] <spm> jtv: seriously? oh my. in that case, flush your cache for starters/restart that browser; and if still no joy; zot cookies as well. if STILL no joy; rename that .<browser> dir and start afresh
[08:18] <spm> jtv: you're the developer. debug it! :-P
[08:19] <spm> man, I am *so* going to hell....
[08:19] <jtv> I just did.  It was the browser I had the kanban board open in.
[08:19] <jtv> spm: as opposed to the people who have to work with you?  I wonder what we're being punished _for_ though
[08:19] <snaggen> I'm trying to get launchpad codereviews to work on my own launchpad setup. It currently works on the web and it is sending mails. But how is the replying to the mail part working?
[08:19] <spm> jtv 2, spm 0.
[08:20] <spm> snaggen: there's a processmail script that runs that processes incoming email
[08:20] <jtv> spm: so the trick turns out to be, don't keep leankitkanban.com open any longer than you have to.  With chromium at least you don't need to restart the browser to undo its damage, so that's progress.
[08:21] <spm> snaggen: cronscripts/process-mail.py fwiw
[08:22] <snaggen> spm: but the reply goes to some<EMAIL_ADDRESS>So I guess I have to have some mailserver running on that host. But is there some procmail to get the mails in to the database or how does that work? or does teh process-mail.py script access to the mailboxes?
[08:22] <spm> jtv: I tried chromium, but with the number of tabs I typically have open; it (impressively!) eats even more memory than firefox
[08:22] <wgrant> snaggen: process-mail.py looks in a mailbox.
[08:23] <spm> snaggen: latter; pop3 I think...
[08:23] <wgrant> See mailbox.txt.
[08:23] <snaggen> wgrant: spm: Thanks for the pointers...
[08:24] <spm> np
[08:24] <spm> and on that note. dinner beckons. night all.
[09:01] <mrevell> Morning
[09:26] <bigjools> morning
[09:26] <wgrant> Morning bigjools.
[09:27] <wgrant> bigjools/noodles775: What do you think of https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/show-package-sets-in-queue/+merge/21521?
[09:28] <bigjools> wgrant: looks great, my only question is did you look at the difference in the number of queries made?
[09:28] <bigjools> that page is very, very sensitive to query count
[09:29] <bigjools> i.e. it's close to the timeout limit
[09:29] <wgrant> Hm, I thought that was only when accepting stuff.
[09:32] <bigjools> it's displaying the page
[09:32] <wgrant> It renders in 3 seconds SQL time on edge.
[09:32] <bigjools> we fixed the acceptance issue by making it redirect when the txn finishes
[09:32] <wgrant> Oh, it didn't before?
[09:32] <bigjools> what I am interested in is the increase in queries needed for each row
[09:33] <bigjools> it never used to
[09:33] <wgrant> Crazy.
[09:33] <bigjools> it was fixed just before karmic
[09:33] <bigjools> yar
[09:39] <bigjools> stub: when all references to a libraryfilealias have gone, the gc deletes the files automatically right?
[09:41] <wgrant> bigjools: It adds just one query per source row.
[09:41] <wgrant> And it's pretty trivial as well.
[09:42] <bigjools> wgrant: ok that's fine then cheers
[09:51] <wgrant> bigjools: Do you have a solution to build start time estimation with builder pools?
[09:51] <bigjools> wgrant: nope
[09:52] <bigjools> wgrant: btw can you get another reviewer to check out your +queue change please, I am sprinting
[09:52] <bigjools> soryr
[09:52] <wgrant> I've been wondering how to do it for multi-arch builders, and it seems to be a similar sort of problem :/
[09:52] <bigjools> sorry, too
[09:52] <wgrant> bigjools: Oh, I intended to.
[09:52] <bigjools> yes it's kinda hard
[09:52] <wgrant> Just wanted you to OK it.
[09:53] <bigjools> cool thanks for asking :)
[09:53] <wgrant> I can't see an obvious way to do it apart from a full simulation.
[09:53] <bigjools> it's a *estimation* :)
[09:55] <wgrant> jtv: The 'building' icon spacing on https://edge.launchpad.net/builders seems a bit broken. Is that related to your changes?
[09:56] <jtv> wgrant: yes, it is.  How appropriate it is depends a bit on your perspective: it's the build status, so I'm displaying it as part of the link to the build.  It did simplify the code.
[09:57] <jtv> wgrant: in fact this is the subject matter of a UI review that's currently somewhere in limbo.
[09:57] <wgrant> jtv: The current spacing is definitely broken. I think the ordering is too, but that's up for debate.
[09:58] <jtv> wgrant: I don't think I changed the ordering... did I?
[09:58] <wgrant> It was '( ) Building _blah blah blah i386_'
[09:58] <wgrant> It is now 'Building ( )_blah blah blah i386_'
[09:59] <jtv> wgrant: oh, sorry, misunderstood you earlier.  That's the part I was talking about all along.
[09:59] <wgrant> jtv: Why does it make the code simpler?
[09:59] <wgrant> Because it was looking at the build status to generate the icon?
[10:00] <jtv> wgrant: and because it was easier to have a link formatter for builds.
[10:01] <wgrant> jtv: Argh, where's the template for that?
[10:01]  * wgrant cannot find it.
[10:01] <jtv> builder-index.pt
[10:03] <wgrant> jtv: Looks like buildfarmbuildjob-current.pt
[10:03] <jtv> ah yes, that's where the link happens now.
[10:03] <jtv> That was another thing: we can't show that icon for a buildless job.
[10:04] <jtv> So that's another way in which it belongs to the build, not the builder.
[10:04] <wgrant> So, I think we should do what is done for the rest of the states.
[10:04] <wgrant> And just use the currentlybuilding icon if there's a job assigned.
[10:04] <wgrant> Regardless of state.
[10:04] <jtv> That's fine by me.
[10:04] <noodles775> jtv: did you update the MP with the instructions for demoing it that we discussed? I won't get to it while sprinting, but there are quite a few people around who can do it?
[10:04] <stub> bigjools: yes, after while.
[10:04] <noodles775> Although, I now it'll be a separate MP.
[10:05] <jtv> noodles775: alas, no.  Catastrophic system failure & bad telephone line.
[10:05] <noodles775> aha.
[10:05] <jtv> Not fun, being negotiated down to 1mbps when you're paying for 12
[10:06] <jtv> while your main system won't boot
[10:06] <wgrant> Ow.
[10:06] <bigjools> stub: ok ta
[10:06] <wgrant> jtv: Ah, so you already hardcode that icon form non-build BFJs?
[10:07] <jtv> wgrant: I _think_ I did that in an earlier iteration but it didn't seem appropriate.
[10:07] <wgrant> It appears to be in devel's buildfarmjob-current.pt
[10:08] <gmb> stub: Question for you re: checkwatches holding transactions open, if you've got a sec.
[10:08] <stub> sure
[10:08] <jtv> wgrant: there was a lot of exploring to get it all in a sort of minimal working shape... I don't mind moving things around a bit now that we have a working situation.
[10:09] <wgrant> Yep.
[10:14] <jtv> henninge: weird...  following the pbuilder instructions, when I exit my chroot and login to it again, I've lost my /etc/hosts patch that ntp needed.  Wasn't --save-after-login supposed to preserve that?
[10:15] <henninge> jtv: yes, I thought so
[10:15] <jtv> maybe --save-after-exec instead?
[10:15] <henninge> but may --login takes the system files and overwrites them on each login?
[10:15] <henninge> jtv: I have not tried that too many times, I admit.
[10:16] <henninge> jtv: try putting it in your own /etc/hosts ...
[10:16] <jtv> will the chroot talk to my local dns!?
[10:17]  * wgrant again points out that you can change the NTP host.
[10:18] <jtv> wgrant: you mean in /etc/ntp.conf?  Or by running an explicit ntpdate?
[10:19] <jtv> Hmm... ntpdate isn't likely to work if it'll compete for a port with the host ntpd
[10:19] <stub> Damn Internet is a yoyo. I must be wearing the wrong colour shirt.
[10:19] <wgrant> jtv: By altering /etc/launchpad-buildd/default
[10:19] <jml> http://paste.ubuntu.com/397153/
[10:19] <jml> http://paste.ubuntu.com/397153/
[10:19] <jml> http://paste.ubuntu.com/397153/
[10:20] <jml> http://paste.ubuntu.com/397153/
[10:20] <jtv> wgrant: ntphost?  That's set to pool.ntp.org btw
[10:20] <jtv> wgrant: which is what I'd hope for, I guess
[10:20] <wgrant> jtv: Then you shouldn't need stuff in /etc/hosts.
[10:20] <henninge> jtv: that's true
[10:22] <henninge> jtv: I suspect that pbuilder updates the /etc/hosts, /etc/hostname, /etc/resolv.conf on each --login. That's why I was suggesting putting it there.
[10:23] <jtv> wgrant: I have to get some food soon...  could you file a bug for the build[er] status icon?
[10:23] <wgrant> jtv: Will do.
[10:23] <jtv> thanks.
[10:23] <jtv> noodles775: how about we call wgrant's feedback a UI review?
[10:23] <wgrant> Hmm. There is no appropriate project any more :(
[10:24] <jtv> wgrant: yeah... I've been dealing with that by calling it Soyuz.
[10:24] <wgrant> I guess the views live in soyuz until somebody bothers to move them, so it can go there.
[10:28] <jml> mwhudson, are you still around?
[10:28]  * jml wants to know in how many places we've implemented two-stage kill
[10:35] <noodles775> jtv: yeah, it's definitely valuable, so add it to the MP (when you create it, it'll make it much easier for a ui-reviewer to approve it :)
[10:38] <gmb> stub: Sorry; didn't see your reply. So, my question:
[10:39] <bigjools> jtv: are you going to fix that icon problem on /builders?
[10:39] <gmb> stub: We know that checkwatches has a habit of holding transactions open whilst it does network stuff, which is Bad. However, we're not sure under what circumstances the transaction killer will come in and stomp on us. As far as we can tell, the first time we access a Storm object a new transaction is started, is that correct?
[10:40] <gmb> (assuming there isn't a transaction already)
[10:42] <stub> gmb: yes
[10:43] <gmb> stub: So if we have a storm object locally, even if we're not updating it, just accessing its attributes, we're essentially going to hold a transaction open whilst we do network stuff that might require data from that object, correct?
[10:43] <stub> From the Zope transaction side of things, yes, from the DB side of things, maybe.
[10:44] <stub> 'maybe' because it will depend if Storm decides it needs to refresh something from the DB for some reason.
[10:44] <stub> Oh... not accessing the store... just the object...
[10:45] <stub> 'maybe' on both counts in that case :)
[10:45] <gmb> stub: Hmm. allenap did some testing last night and it appeared that Storm *always* refreshes from the DB if you access anything other than the ID. Is that not necessarily the case?
[10:46] <allenap> stub: I'll forward you the example I wrote.
[10:46] <stub> I don't know.
[10:46] <gmb> allenap: Ta.
[10:46] <stub> I used to be the one campaigning to not keep objects alive over transaction boundaries :)
[10:49] <jml> heh
[10:50] <jml> why isn't hitchhiker packaged in karmic, dammit
[10:52] <stub> allenap, gmb: Look like it is refreshing, yes. Same behavior with aborting and committing the transaction. Not sure if this is Storm or Storm+SQLObject compatibility standard.
[10:55] <stub> def commit(self):
[10:55] <stub>         """Commit all changes to the database.
[10:55] <stub>         This invalidates the cache, so all live objects will have data
[10:55] <stub>         reloaded next time they are touched.
[10:55] <stub> Looks like Storm default behavior
[10:55] <gmb> Hmph.
[10:55] <gmb> stub, allenap: So, looks like local caching is the way to go. Feels like a bodge, though.
[10:55] <stub> Running checkwatches in autocommit mode might be the simplest solution. It doesn't seem like the sort of problem you need transactional integrity for.
[10:56] <allenap> gmb: Right, the floor is covered in egg shells.
[10:56] <allenap> stub: That sounds good.
[10:56] <stub> Also, consider pulling your objects from the slave and casting them to IMasterStore(obj) before making changes.
[10:56] <allenap> stub: That also sounds good. Will the transaction killer not kill transactions from slave stores?
[10:57] <allenap> stub: And, what's the right way to get checkwatches to run in autocommit mode?
[10:58] <stub> It will, but there is no reason not to use the slave given you are already using possibly out of date information.
[10:58] <stub> We are less aggressive on the slaves, and can be more lenient if necessary.
[10:58] <stub> Sorry... IMasterObject(obj)...
[10:58] <stub> Hmm... it is twisted isn't it.
[10:59] <stub> Oh... it is also using LaunchpadScript as a base. There is an argument in there you can set.
[11:01] <stub> isolation=ISOLATION_LEVEL_AUTOCOMMIT argument to run()
[11:01] <stub> the constant imported from canonical.database.sqlbase
[11:02] <jtv1> bigjools: I'd like to fix that, yes
[11:04]  * gmb -> rebooting for updates
[11:07] <stub> allenap, gmb: Using the slave would be quite simple. Just install the SlaveDatabasePolicy(), and cast objects you need to write to using writable_obj = IMasterObject(object).
[11:08] <stub> with SlaveDatabasePolicy(): [...]
[11:08] <allenap> stub: You're awesome, thank you.
[11:36] <jml> any keen reviewers for https://code.launchpad.net/~jml/launchpad/sftp-poppy/+merge/21627
[11:39] <allenap> jml: I'll do it.
[11:40] <jml> allenap, thanks, but I've already swapped with noodles. your comments are still welcome though.
[11:46] <jtv> henninge, wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/397192/  :-(
[11:47] <jtv> slave goes through:
[11:47] <jtv> Iterating with success flag 0 against stage INIT
[11:47] <jtv> Iterating with success flag None against stage UNPACK
[11:47] <jtv> Iterating with success flag 0 against stage CLEANUP
[11:47] <wgrant> jtv: Your verifySlaveBuildID is probably buggy.
[11:47] <wgrant> It's being told to abort.
[11:47]  * jtv looks at the master log
[11:50] <jtv> wgrant: yup, that looks plausible!
[11:50] <jtv> 2010-03-18 18:13:05+0700 [-] Builder 'bob' rescued from 'bf-test-5': 'BuildQueue 5 is not available: Object not found'
[11:54] <jtv> wgrant: I rather suspect that ended up being the job id instead of the buildqueue id...
[11:54] <jtv> Did we mention that this stuff was unnecessary complex?  :-)
[11:54] <jtv> Yup, it's the job id.
[11:57] <wgrant> Heh.
[12:04]  * jtv has to run off for a bit
[12:05] <jtv> make that quite a bit
[12:05] <jtv-afk> danilos: confirmed 539499, fix is on the way.
[12:06] <danilos> jtv-afk, it'd be better if you said "confirmed it's a fluke, fixed it in the wiki page" :)
[12:06] <jtv-afk> danilos: better in what way, given that it's not the truth?
[12:06] <danilos> jtv-afk, better if it was the truth ;)
[12:06] <jtv-afk> wel duh!
[12:09] <wgrant> jtv-afk: There is of course the other matter of lp-buildd being unhappy about being aborted during unpack.
[12:11] <jtv-afk> wgrant: who wouldn't be?
[12:11] <wgrant> Heh.
[12:15] <jtv-afk> It's *just* *not* *fair*.  I tested against this exact problem, and the only way it could have failed to fail is if the job and the buildqueue happened to get the same id.
[12:15] <wgrant> I wondered about how the tests managed to pass.
[12:21] <jtv-afk> Yup.  Same id.  Pure, dumb coincidence.
[12:21] <jtv-afk> I wonder how I'm going to explain this to my reviewer.
[12:21] <jtv-afk> but first, afk.
[12:24] <jml> noodles775, btw, the doc I was showing you is http://www.muthukadan.net/docs/zca.html
[12:24] <jml> noodles775, it's an excellent guide to zope component architecture, imho
[12:30] <jml> the buildbot is broken, is anyone working on it?
[12:38] <jml> bigjools, http://www.kieranholland.com/code/documentation/nevow-stan/#the-tags-module
[12:38] <noodles775> jml: I'm disabling the test that is (apparently) causing the issue.
[13:55] <gmb> noodles775: Did you disable that failing test? db_lp is still in [testfix]
[13:56] <gmb> I mean, I know I can force a build so that I can land a branch, but that seems to be the wrong thing to do.
[14:58] <allenap> stub: Hi. transaction.get()._resources seems to still contain stuff even when isolation is set to auto-commit. Checking with the psycopg connection seems to give me valid information. Do you object if I go back to checking with the raw connection?
[14:58] <stub> In autocommit mode, there is no point doing the checks at all.
[14:59] <stub> I have no objections to reverting to checking the raw connection. You probably need to query the IZStorm utility for all stores and check each of them.
[15:01] <allenap> stub: Okay, cool. It's useful at the moment, during development, to make sure that tests are valid (i.e. using auto-commit). I also want to prevent regression in the future.
[15:02] <rockstar> matsubara-lunch, Ursinha, are we having a production meeting this week?
[15:02] <Ursinha> rockstar: yes sir
[15:02] <Ursinha> rockstar: why?
[15:02] <rockstar> Ursinha, because I'm wondering where everyone is.
[15:03] <rockstar> Oh crap, nevermind.  I forgot that the rest of didn't jump on the DST bandwagon yet.
[15:04] <Ursinha> rockstar: :)
[16:02] <Ursinha> matsubara, stub, check, gary_poster, rockstar, bigjools, sinzui, allenap: hey! what about a production meeting now? #launchpad-meeting @ Freenode
[16:02] <rockstar> Hi
[16:02] <gary_poster> Ursinha: :-) matsubara standing in for me today
[16:02] <Ursinha> thanks gary_poster :)
[16:02] <bigjools> Ursinha: soyuz is sprinting, can you ping me if you need anything
[16:03] <Ursinha> sure bigjools, thanks
[16:03] <bigjools> thanks Ursinha
[16:47] <noodles775> gmb: As you've probably figured by now, I disabled the test with the testfix on devel only.
[16:47] <noodles775> (missed your message earlier).
[16:49] <kfogel> sinzui, in lib/canonical/launchpad/emailtemplates/email-processing-error.txt there is a URL ("https://help.launchpad.net/EmailInterface") that is to a non-existent page.  I can just fix it to include "Bugs", as in "https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface", but the text around it implies that it's about more than bugs.  Are there any other email interfaces to Launchpad?
[16:49] <kfogel> deryck: (if you know the answer to above, feel free to chime in)
[16:50] <sinzui> kfogel: There is a page about review email command
[16:50] <kfogel> sinzui: thanks
[16:50] <kfogel> https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Review/#Email%20interface
[16:52] <kfogel> frustrating that search (https://help.launchpad.net/HelpOnActions?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=email+interface) doesn't find that page!
[16:55] <sinzui> I only search google to find our content. moin suck
[16:55] <sinzui> kfogel: https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Review
[17:01] <kfogel> sinzui: thanks.  see above; I found it
[17:45] <james_w> is https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~james-w/launchpad/code-imports-use-ibranchtarget/+merge/21651 too big for a single branch?
[17:48]  * james_w thinks of a better way to do it anyway
[17:51] <jml> james_w, it's probably not too big for a branch like that.
[17:51] <jml> james_w, you might want to arrange something with the reviewer though.
[17:51] <james_w> I dropped the makeAnyCodeImport as makeCodeImport means the same thing essentially
[17:51] <jml> james_w, ok.
[17:51] <james_w> if we want the distinction then I can do it as a followup branch
[17:52] <jml> james_w, yeah.
[18:00] <james_w> ok, less than half the size, much better
[18:24] <mwhudson> jml: hi
[18:24] <jml> mwhudson, hi
[18:25] <kfogel> aaaargh.  Is there no way in the help wiki to do a relative link to an anchor on a different page?  E.g., "[[Code/Review/#Email interface|foo]]" ?  It will come out as "https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Review/#Email+interface", which will not work.  But if you put in %20 for the space, it will escape the % and you'll get %2520.
[18:26] <jml> kfogel, don't know, I'm afraid. #moin will probably be able to help though.
[18:27] <kfogel> jml: I'm just adding a manual anchor "<<Anchor(EmailInterface)>>" and linking to that.  Harrumph.
[18:28] <mwhudson> jml: you pang
[18:28] <jml> mwhudson, I did?
[18:28] <jml> mwhudson, hmm. let me consult my oracle.
[18:28] <mwhudson> jml: about 8 hours ago, it has to be said
[18:28] <jml> mwhudson, oh yes. in how many places have we implemented two-stage kill?
[18:30] <jml> mwhudson, because I did a thing.
[18:31] <jml> mwhudson, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jml/launchpad/sftp-poppy/+merge/21627
[18:31] <jml> mwhudson, guess why the librarian was always taking 5s to shut down?
[18:34] <james_w> jml: I don't think tachandler can import from lp
[18:35] <jml> james_w, why not?
[18:35] <james_w> I'm just finding the bug
[18:35] <james_w> it's used on machines that don't have the full lp source tree available
[18:36] <jml> james_w, !!!
[18:36] <mwhudson> jml: um, did it send a signal then wait 5 seconds to see if it had died yet?
[18:36] <mwhudson> there should be a comment in tachandler saying this
[18:36] <jml> mwhudson, it sent a signal, didn't allow the zombie to be reaped, then kept polling every .1s for 5s to see if the zombie had gone yet (which it won't have)
[18:36]  * mwhudson cries
[18:37] <jml> there should be a comment in lp.services.osutils and maybe a unit test
[18:37] <jml> or we could just fix whatever bug it is that forces us to duplicate code this way.
[18:38] <mwhudson> the issue is that tachandler is used on the buildds
[18:38] <jml> I mean, exactly how many more things do we need other than the vast size of our code base to block us from having a well organized code base
[18:40] <jml> mwhudson, so tachandler should be in a separate tree then, I guess.
[18:40] <mwhudson> there is a difference between what we want and what we get :/
[18:41] <jml> mwhudson, indeed.
[18:42] <james_w> jml:  bzr diff -r 10137..10137.2.2
[18:42] <mwhudson> jml: as a hack to get this landed, you could define the functions in tachandler, but still put them in lp.services.osutils.__all__
[18:42] <jml> mwhudson, yeah, that's what I was thinking
[18:42] <jml> mwhudson, although, it's running through ec2 test right now
[18:43] <jml> is there a test that will block this landing?
[18:43] <mwhudson> unlikely
[18:44] <mwhudson> i
[18:44] <jml> :( :( :(
[18:45] <mwhudson> i'm not really sure how you could write one, i guess you could execute a script that goes "import _pythonpath; from daeamons import tachandler; import sys; assert 'lp' not in sys.modules"
[18:45] <jml> well, it's not even clear to me what the constraints are for the buildd
[18:45] <jml> or what bits of launchpad it actually uses.
[18:47] <mwhudson> jml: i believe you are physically close to people you can beat into telling you
[18:47] <jml> mwhudson, yes. I might have to do that.
[18:47] <jml> mwhudson, anyway, aside from that
[18:47] <mwhudson> i think the only think it uses outside canonical/launchpad/build is tachandler though
[18:47] <jml> mwhudson, how many two-stage kill implementations do we have in Launchpad?
[18:47] <mwhudson> s/think/thing/
[18:47] <james_w> I guess at one point it may have been desirable to stop people catting the LP tree while their package was building
[18:48] <mwhudson> james_w: also, launchpad doesn't install so well on HPPA
[18:48] <mwhudson> jml: um, at least two i guess>
[18:48] <mwhudson> ?
[18:49] <jml> mwhudson, where's the other one?
[18:49] <mwhudson> jml: twistedsupport
[18:49] <jml> oh of course
[18:49]  * jml looks
[18:51] <jml> mwhudson, btw, did you see the dependency graph?
[18:51] <mwhudson> jml: only enough to notice that eog is an awful svg viewer
[18:54] <jml> mwhudson, use dotviewer from pypy
[18:57] <mwhudson> jml: if you insist
[18:59] <jml> mwhudson, pypy is a python interpreter written in python, it's pretty cool
[18:59] <jml> mwhudson, :P
[18:59] <mwhudson> heh heh
[18:59] <jml> mwhudson, Although see their current topic, "PyPy is a actually a visualization project, we just build interpreters to have interesting data to visualize"
[18:59] <mwhudson> :)
[19:00] <mwhudson> #pypy has a history of nicely surreal topics
[19:00] <mwhudson> jml: it is entertaining how lp.testing is in the centre
[19:04] <jml> mwhudson, yeah. also canonical.launchpad needs to die.
[19:05] <mwhudson> well yes
[19:09] <jml> man this buildd thing has made me angry
[19:24] <kfogel> intellectronica: ayt?
[20:15] <mwhudson> thumper: hello?
[20:38] <james_w> jml: perchance still around?
[20:48] <thumper> morning
[20:51] <james_w> morning thumper
[20:52] <thumper> hi james_w
[20:52] <james_w> thumper: could you perhaps provide a little SQL help?
[20:53] <thumper> sure
[20:54] <james_w> CodeImportSet.composeQueryString() assumes a Product, but that will no longer always be true in my branch
[20:54] <james_w> I need to rewrite the query to allow for using SourcePackage as well
[20:55] <thumper> ok
[20:55] <thumper> james_w: I'm just looking at your code import target branch
[20:55] <thumper> hmm.. seems to have gone
[20:55] <james_w> great
[20:56] <james_w> I keep screwing up the initial settings and forgetting things like prerequisite branches
[20:56] <thumper> :)
[20:56] <thumper> james_w: can you paste me a link?
[20:56] <james_w> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~james-w/launchpad/code-imports-use-ibranchtarget
[20:56] <james_w> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~james-w/launchpad/code-imports-use-ibranchtarget/+merge/21651
[20:57] <james_w> the intention of that one is just to refactor, not allow any new behaviour
[20:58] <james_w> and to make the tests more explicit about if they require the code import to be against a product
[21:06] <thumper> james_w: reviewed
[21:06] <james_w> thanks
[21:06] <mwhudson> flacoste: so buildbot farted again
[21:06] <mwhudson> flacoste: did you read my mail yet? (i only sent it a minute or so ago)
[21:07] <thumper> james_w: composeQueryString needs to die
[21:07] <james_w> even better
[21:07] <flacoste> mwhudson: switching to email...
[21:08] <mwhudson> thumper, james_w: it's used for the search box on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/+code-import-list
[21:08] <mwhudson> but maybe that page needs to die now
[21:08] <mwhudson> (now that (a) we disable failing imports (b) +code-imports is more useful)
[21:08]  * thumper looks at the page
[21:09] <thumper> my vote is kill the page
[21:10] <thumper> +code-imports is where we should add stuff now
[21:10] <james_w> right, a search box isn't too useful as you could go from search->project->branch->info
[21:10]  * james_w starts a new branch
[21:12] <mwhudson> # XXX SteveAlexander 2005-04-11:
[21:12] <mwhudson> # This is a total mess.  I need to work out what this all means.
[21:12] <mwhudson> that's just the sort of thing you want to find!
[21:20] <StevenK> Tests with errors:
[21:20] <StevenK>    test_import_bzrsvn (lp.codehosting.codeimport.tests.test_workermonitor.TestWorkerMonitorIntegration)
[21:20] <StevenK> Awwwww! But I didn't change that bit :-(
[21:22] <mwhudson> StevenK: those tests have a history of intermittently failing :(
[21:22] <mwhudson> StevenK: what was the error?  was this in ec2 ?
[21:22] <flacoste> mwhudson: i followed-up by email with more info
[21:23] <flacoste> mwhudson: i have a solution which looks too good to be true
[21:23] <StevenK> mwhudson: Looks to be "DirtyReactorAggregateError: Reactor was unclean."
[21:23] <mwhudson> flacoste: ah, this patch http://paste.ubuntu.com/397470/ makes the two tests that failed in ec2 pass with the mailqueue read-only
[21:23] <mwhudson> StevenK: !
[21:23] <mwhudson> StevenK: can you pastebin it?
[21:24] <flacoste> mwhudson: good! you'll find a simpler ZCML in my reply
[21:25] <flacoste> mwhudson: i'm fine with you landing this with the simpler ZCML file, we can leave the removal of the possible dead code in sendmail.py for a separate time
[21:25] <mwhudson> flacoste: ah ok
[21:25] <flacoste> since it would require extensive QA to make sure that we didn't break all mail-sending scripts
[21:25] <StevenK> mwhudson: Right, a clag from the log around the error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/397471/
[21:28] <mwhudson> StevenK: interesting
[21:28] <mwhudson> StevenK: looks spurious though
[21:28] <mwhudson> StevenK: can you file a bug with that output in it?
[21:28] <StevenK> mwhudson: Against which bit?
[21:29] <mwhudson> StevenK: launchpad-cpde
[21:30] <mwhudson> flacoste: erm, did you mean include or includeOverrides in your zcml?
[21:30] <mwhudson> oh, it needs to be files= not file= for the glob to work
[21:33] <StevenK> mwhudson: Done, bug 541526
[21:33] <mup> Bug #541526: Test error in test_import_bzrsvn <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/541526>
[21:34] <mwhudson> StevenK: thanks
[21:38] <flacoste> mwhudson: yeah, sorry, this was untested :-)
[21:39] <mwhudson> flacoste: i'll have a merge proposal for you in about 10 seconds...
[21:39] <mwhudson> flacoste: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mwhudson/launchpad/more-direct-delivery-pls/+merge/21685
[21:40] <james_w> thumper: what count should be on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ for imported branches?
[21:40] <james_w> (see the bottom if you have forgotten it was there :-)
[21:41] <flacoste> mwhudson: didn't you want to include something about running tests with chmod -w on the mailqueue dir?
[21:41] <mwhudson> flacoste: hm, maybe, not sure how to arrange that though
[21:42] <flacoste> mwhudson: how did you do it in your tests?
[21:44] <mwhudson> flacoste: i hacked it in ec2test's testrunner and then removed the line from the makefile
[21:44] <flacoste> hmm, right
[21:45] <flacoste> mwhudson: we could check in the BaseLayer.testTearDown that the directory is empty
[21:45] <flacoste> mwhudson: or change permission in BaseLayer.testSetUp and restore them in testTearDown
[21:46] <mwhudson> flacoste: so something like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/397482/
[21:46] <flacoste> mwhudson: that's even simpler
[21:48] <mwhudson> i guess it won't help people who don't use ec2 for their tests
[21:48] <thumper> james_w: my suggestion would be working code imports
[21:48] <flacoste> mwhudson: one problem at a time :-)
[21:48] <mwhudson> flacoste: heh ok
[21:49] <mwhudson> flacoste: ok, pushing that change, merge proposal diff will update in a sec
[21:49] <james_w> thumper: just a count of all imports in the REVIEWED state?
[21:49] <thumper> james_w: yeah
[21:49] <thumper> what is it now?
[21:49] <james_w> all "active"
[21:50] <james_w> so REVIEWED and not for deactivated products/projects
[21:50] <james_w> and tried at least once
[21:50] <kfogel> Do we have a standard javascript equivalent of python's string.strip() method?  (strip leading/trailing whitespace, including newlines)?
[21:50] <james_w> so REVIEWED is a fine approximation in my opinion
[21:51] <mwhudson> REVIEWED is a decent approximation now we mark imports failing automatically
[21:54] <kfogel> ah, trim()
[22:02] <james_w> thumper: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~james-w/launchpad/code-imports-use-ibranchtarget/+merge/21651 now with less sampledata if you want to re-review
[22:07] <mwhudson> flacoste: ping? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mwhudson/launchpad/more-direct-delivery-pls/+merge/21685
[22:08] <flacoste> mwhudson: sorry, forgot to approve it!
[22:08] <flacoste> done
[22:08] <mwhudson> ta
[22:14] <james_w> and I'm throwing https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~james-w/launchpad/remove-code-import-list/+merge/21690 at ec2 to look for fallout
[22:19] <maxb> jml: launchpad-dependencies shouldn't have an ubuntu1 suffix
[22:50] <mwhudson> that didn't help
[22:51] <thumper> mwhudson: the split?
[22:51] <mwhudson> thumper: hi
[22:51] <mwhudson> that was all a bit off
[22:51] <mwhudson> odd
[22:51] <mwhudson> thumper: i reviewed your branch anyway
[22:51] <thumper> mwhudson: yeah, saw that, thansk
[22:54]  * thumper goes to fire off three headless tests


[01:11] <storrgie> Why is my login MOTD saying I need to perform updates when my system is up to date? (10.04.2
[01:13] <SinnerNyx> Was working in 10.10, not working in 11.04. Running "sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart" gives the following output: (deprecated message)... SIOCSIFADDR: no such device   eth0: Error while getting interface flags: no such device
[01:14] <qman__> means you don't have an eth0
[01:14] <jenkinSear> does eth0 show up if you do a /sbin/ifconfig -a ?
[01:15] <qman__> might be a driver issue or a udev one
[01:16] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #775239 in samba (main) "loop device over samba breaks filesystem" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775239
[01:31] <DAVdaBRAV> Anyone actually here?
[01:32] <JanC> maybe
[01:32] <jenkinSear> I'm not
[01:32] <DAVdaBRAV> Sounds promising
[01:33] <DAVdaBRAV> anyone here or not know where to go from "it works" to get to phpbb?
[01:33] <MTecknology> how can I check available updates?
[01:34] <MTecknology> I've always been in the habit of just updating everything
[01:34] <jenkinSear> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PhpBB2
[01:34] <qman__> DAVdaBRAV, sudo apt-get install phpbb3
[01:34] <DAVdaBRAV> that easy? really? 0_0
[01:35] <DAVdaBRAV> oh my it appears to be working! :O
[01:36] <qman__> FYI, I found the existence of that package by running 'apt-cache search phpbb'
[01:37] <qman__> you should do this whenever you intend to install software, just to see if someone else did the hard work for you
[01:37] <DAVdaBRAV> :D Thanks so much.
[01:38] <JanC> MTecknology: you aren't using byobu on your server?  ☺
[01:38] <MTecknology> JanC: no.. never got into playing with it and most systems i work with can't even get it
[01:39] <JanC> why can't they get it?
[01:40] <JanC> anyway, if you use it, you get a useful indicator at the bottom that shows up when there are upgrades available
[01:50] <MTecknology> JanC: systems are too old
[01:51] <MTecknology> JanC: what command would i run to see the packages available for update and which are security updates?
[01:51] <JanC> update-manager-text
[01:53] <MTecknology> JanC: anything that wouldn't make me install 85 packages?
[01:53] <JanC> ☺
[01:54] <MTecknology> eh.. update-manager-core instead of update-manager :P
[01:55] <MTecknology> lied - it's not available from that
[01:55] <MTecknology> that's just too many deps
[01:55] <JanC> update-manager-text is a package here, but probably not available in older versions
[01:56] <MTecknology> oh, 5 deps, still a bit
[01:56] <MTecknology> definitely not the list I was looking for...
[01:57] <MTecknology> I'm looking for something I can use in scripts
[01:58] <JanC> well, wajig has a command to list available package upgrades
[01:59] <JanC> cat /var/lib/dpkg/status | egrep '^(Package|Status|Version):' | awk '/^Package: / {pkg=$2}      /^Status: / {s1=$2;s2=$3;s3=$4}     /^Version: / {print pkg,$2,s1,s2,s3}' | grep 'ok installed' | awk '{print $1,$2}' | sort -k 1b,1
[01:59] <JanC> thats' what it uses to get that  :P
[01:59] <JanC> eh, more or less
[01:59] <MTecknology> woah
[02:00] <MTecknology> I was hoping something like.... aptitude available-updates :P
[02:02] <JanC> "apt-get upgrade -s" will list what packages it would normally upgrade
[02:02] <JanC> you'll have to parse that though  ☺
[02:04] <JanC> MTecknology: you could also use python-apt of course
[02:05] <MTecknology> JanC: ☺
[02:05] <MTecknology> python-apt may be a pretty good idea for this
[02:06] <JanC> or update-manager-core
[02:08] <JanC> which should contain everything you need to get that list
[02:12] <DAVdaBRAV> Question: does Ubuntu have a modified package for phpbb?
[02:35] <tonyyarusso> Okay, I give up.  Can someone explain virtual networking with KVM / libvirt / virt-manager to me?
[02:35] <DAVdaBRAV> nope. apparentally not.
[02:35] <tonyyarusso> The goal:  Have my VMs directly-connected to the network, getting IP addresses from the same DHCP server & pool as all of my physical machines.
[02:35] <qman__> then you want a bridged configuration
[02:36] <koolhead17> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM
[02:36] <tonyyarusso> qman__: I know that much, but can't manage to get it working.
[02:36] <tonyyarusso> yeah...already read that.
[02:36] <qman__> I haven't dealt much with virtualization in a while
[02:36] <qman__> only used KVM once, briefly
[02:37] <tonyyarusso> also, it's unclear how current that wiki page is.
[02:37] <twb> Is it safe to run pvck on an active LVM PV?
[02:37]  * kthomas_vh_ searches for how to install prce.h for APC
[02:37] <Azelphur> Is there any way in ubuntu-server to do a rebootless distribution update/kernel update?
[02:38] <kthomas_vh_> *pcre
[02:38] <tonyyarusso> It seems like virt-manager tries (and fails) to create its own bridges and stuff, thus breaking everything you had set up.
[02:41] <qman__> Azelphur, yes, with ksplice
[02:41] <qman__> the update service isn't free for servers, though
[02:42] <Azelphur> hmm, why would you have to pay for it?
[02:43] <qman__> because writing kernel patches takes time and effort
[02:43] <qman__> the technology is open source, it's the update service they charge for
[02:44] <Azelphur> do they have to do something majorly special to do rebootless updates?
[02:44] <qman__> it requires writing binary kernel patches
[02:44] <qman__> it's different from compiling a new kernel
[02:45] <Azelphur> I see :p
[02:45] <Azelphur> what's the difference between desktop and server?
[02:45] <Azelphur> or do they just charge for server for the hell of it :p
[02:45] <qman__> the package set
[02:46] <qman__> the free service requires the GUI app
[02:46] <Azelphur> I see :p
[02:47] <qman__> though I'm not sure on the legalities and their terms of service
[02:47] <Azelphur> No FOSS alternatives to it?
[02:48] <qman__> it is FOSS
[02:48] <qman__> the software they use is all open source
[02:48] <Azelphur> oh :p
[02:48] <qman__> they simply charge for the patches and service
[02:48] <qman__> like how canonical charges for support services
[02:48] <qman__> if you want to write your own patches, you can
[02:49] <Azelphur> would ksplice allow me to go through a complete distribution upgrade without a reboot?
[02:49] <Azelphur> or would it only get me through kernel updates
[02:49] <qman__> ksplice only applies to kernel updates
[02:49] <qman__> but kernel updates are the only ones that require a reboot
[02:49] <qman__> all other updates can be applied by restarting services
[02:50] <Azelphur> so that's a yes? :)
[02:50] <qman__> I used it on 9.04 before they started charging, didn't reboot my router for well over a year
[02:50] <Azelphur> fun
[02:50] <Azelphur> I have a server that really wants 24/7 uptime, so it's interesting to me :p
[02:51] <Azelphur> still on 10.04 would like to update it :)
[02:51] <qman__> well, the service isn't very expensive, it's just a matter of whether that feature is that valuable to you or not
[02:52] <qman__> if I was running a business that depended on uptime, I'd buy it
[02:52] <Azelphur> yea, I'm tempted to, I'm mostly just being a cheap-ass at this point xD
[02:52] <qman__> but a few minutes to reboot on occasion is perfectly acceptable for what I'm running
[02:52] <Azelphur> I pay $150 a month in server hosting, I should really invest $3 xD
[02:53] <qman__> well, I can tell you it works well and it's very convenient
[02:53] <Azelphur> it sounds it :)
[03:02] <MTecknology> what would a person generally pick for an rpc port?
[03:09] <qman__> people generally don't pick RPC ports, that's how the protocol works
[03:10] <qman__> and that's why it's a huge pain and should be avoided if possible
[03:11] <twb> portmapper is pre-internet tech, so it assumes that it's expensive to set up a new computer on the network, and you'll be the only one with root on any machine
[03:11] <twb> (I assume by "RPC" you mean portmapper and not, say, ajax.)
[04:14] <DAVdaBRAV> help! how to open a tar?!
[04:15] <DAVdaBRAV> sudo tar -xvjf file /dir isn't working... :(
[04:17] <shauno> -j is specifically for tar.bz2; does that match the file you're trying to open ?
[04:17] <DAVdaBRAV> yes
[04:18] <shauno> do you get any error messages?
[04:18] <DAVdaBRAV> Record size = 8 blocks
[04:18] <DAVdaBRAV> tar: /var/www: not found in archive
[04:18] <DAVdaBRAV> exit with failure due to errors :/
[04:18] <twb> DAVdaBRAV: by passing /var/www you are asking it to extract only /var/www from itself.
[04:19] <twb> DAVdaBRAV: to specify a destination, pass -C
[04:19] <DAVdaBRAV> OH
[04:19] <twb> DAVdaBRAV: or simply cd to it first
[04:19] <DAVdaBRAV> facepalm**
[04:20] <DAVdaBRAV> :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
[04:20] <twb> Yes, quite.
[04:20] <DAVdaBRAV> thank you, twb!
[05:26] <jgould> Ok, here's an odd one: I just ran sudo apt-get update, and then sudo apt-get upgrade on my server running 10.04. there were no updates. when I logged back in, I was greeted with: 45 packages can be updated, 30 updates are security updates.  What am I doing wrong?
[05:32] <twb> jgould: I have that behaviour
[05:32] <twb> jgould: for some reason my motd update isn't happening
[05:32] <twb> jgould: I haven't investigated yet; let me know what you find
[05:40] <twb> The virsh manpage says "For remote access see the documentation page on how to make URIs." -- which document is it referring to?
[05:41] <twb> I have users running virt-manager on their laptops.  I'm trying to work out if/how to give them read-only access -- virt-manager doesn't seem to have an option for this, where virsh does
[07:07] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #775343 in tftp-hpa (main) "package tftpd-hpa 5.0-11ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: el paquete tftpd-hpa no está listo para configurarse  no se puede configurar (estado actual `half-installed')" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775343
[07:25] <Macer> wow bind is a pain
[07:26] <Macer> took me forever to realize that ubuntu-server and apparmor automatically change write permissions to dirs
[07:26] <Macer> i couldn't figure out why i couldn't to the log file.. ugh
[07:27] <Macer> couldn't write
[07:36] <twb> Macer: +1 for nsd and unbound
[07:37] <twb> Oh wait, bind is isc dhcpd
[07:37] <twb> I was thinking named
[07:37] <Macer> bind = named ;)
[07:37] <twb> Right right
[07:37] <twb> MOAR COFFEE
[07:37] <Macer> the apparmor stuff was making me pull my hair out
[07:38] <twb> me love nsd3
[07:38] <jgould> Coffee is good
[07:38] <twb> jgould: one too many o's
[07:38] <jgould> Heh
[07:45] <Macer> this tyan board is flawed
[07:46] <Macer> Core1 Temp:  +80.0°C
[07:46] <Macer> it is hovering 5C below its thermal shutdown temp
[07:48] <twb> probably worse if you turn it on
[07:48] <twb> O'course it could just be that lm-sensors is poorly calibrated for that unit
[07:49] <twb> It's not uncommon for sensors to report with a 20 degree offset or so
[07:51] <Macer> that is maxed out
[07:51] <Macer> i was runnning boinc on it to burn it up a bit to make sure it would stay up under a heavy load
[07:51] <twb> Not cpuburn?
[07:51] <Macer> cpuburn? :)
[07:52] <Macer> didn't even know there was such a thing
[07:54] <Macer> i figured boinc would use the cpus maxed out
[07:54] <Macer> which it did.. one cpu hovers in the low 60s which is pretty normal.. cpu2 hovers around high 70s
[07:56] <Macer> ah well. i will just run boinc full speed for a day or two and see if it melts.. if it doesn't then hopefully it can stay up
[07:58] <twb> Unless it's a hot day or the A/C dies or the fan dies...
[09:02] <Macer> yeah i suppose that can happen. ah well. it will give me a reason to make a new one ;)
[09:02] <Macer> it's a dual opteron 285... clocking about 6 years old now
[09:55] <huats> morning
[11:45] <_johnny> any users of mod_python? i have a question about embedded python, which - according to docs - is <% # code %> - however this is not recognized by my setup (i only have .py added as a handle). <?php ?> tags work, so my question is, how do i enable this for mod_python?
[11:45] <_johnny> i've tried adding .psp and using that extension, however those file are reported as not found (and yes, the filename is correct)
[11:46] <_johnny> as per http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/pyapi-psp.html
[11:48] <soren> _johnny: Have you done any configuration at all?
[11:49] <_johnny> yes. http://pastebin.com/j6k4BaAz
[11:51] <soren> _johnny: I think you need an "AddHandler mod_python.psp .psp" line.
[11:51] <reisi> hi everyone! after the last upgrades on 10.04 the tools have automounted (mount -a during boot process) an lvm2 snapshot instead of the logical volume (they have the same blkid UUID); any ideas how to fix this permanantly?
[11:54] <soren> reisi: Wow, that still happens?
[11:54] <soren> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/+bug/460906
[11:55] <soren> reisi: Oh, on Lucid?
[11:55] <reisi> soren: this is in 10.04
[11:55] <_johnny> soren: thanks! :)
[11:55] <_johnny> eller tak ;)
[11:56] <soren> velbekomme :)
[12:04] <_johnny> soren: you wouldn't happen to know if it's possible to add *two* handlers, or a generic handler which supports both .py and .psp would you? i could of course add the dir twice, but it's a bit messy ;)
[12:06] <_johnny> ah, sorry, nevermind. just needs a pipe seperator
[12:06] <_johnny> PythonHandler mod_python.publisher | .py
[12:06] <_johnny> for delegating
[12:37] <reisi> while doing rsync --dry-run [to] [from]; is it possible to get a file listing what should go to->from and from->to etc?
[12:40] <reisi> aah, itemize-changes
[14:59] <kirkland> airtonix: hiya!  if you're using the latest byobu (either in 11.04, or from the ppa:byobu/ppa), you can use "shift-f2" and "ctrl-f2" to split your terminal
[15:00] <kirkland> airtonix: and then you can use shift-f3 and shift-f4 to move between the terminal splits
[15:00] <airtonix> kirkland: pimping!
[15:00] <kirkland> airtonix: and shift-f5 will collapse all of the splits back down to one single pane
[15:01] <kirkland> ;-)
[15:02] <airtonix> kirkland: is that all in the byobu docs installed by the ppa ?
[15:03] <kirkland> airtonix: definitely in the manpage
[15:03] <kirkland> airtonix: http://manpg.es/byobu
[15:03] <kirkland> airtonix: scroll down to keybindings
[15:07] <lynxman> hey kirkland, morning
[15:08] <lynxman> kirkland: did you action into this merge? http://bit.ly/kW4ls7 Brian is asking for a SRU
[15:19] <zul> lynxman:  that needs to be fixed in oneiric first as well
[15:20] <lynxman> zul: I imagine so, was waiting for 1.2.0 release (which will happen next week)
[15:20] <zul> lynxman: hopefully the debian maintainers will package it ;)
[15:21] <lynxman> zul: yeah, they're pretty fast
[15:31] <RoAkSoAx> zul: how did they like the powernap idea at the openstack?
[15:32] <zul> RoAkSoAx: good i think, it was the very last session of the week so it wasnt well attended
[15:36] <RoAkSoAx> zul: cool
[15:36] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: ping
[15:55] <RoAkSoAx> zul: and were you present in the HA session?
[15:55] <zul> RoAkSoAx: for a bit of it, it was more of a presentation
[15:56] <RoAkSoAx> zul: oh ok! so nothing interesting there then
[15:56] <zul> RoAkSoAx: not that i remeber ;)
[16:07] <reisi> hmm i just installed 8GB more ram, bringing the system total to 13GB; now i'm seeing that 6GB is used to buffers; is this ... normal? under no load?
[16:07] <patdk-wk> reisi, define, normal :)
[16:08] <patdk-wk> if you have 6 gigs of ram, not being used for something else, linux will claim it for disk cache
[16:08] <reisi> patdk-wk: well the system does not have a *lot* of connections
[16:08] <patdk-wk> and even if it's used for something else, it could swap it out and claim it for disk cache
[16:08] <reisi> patdk-wk: but that's the 'cached' value from free?
[16:09] <reisi> patdk-wk: i've got 3GB cached, but 6GB in buffers
[16:09] <patdk-wk> cached is read disk buffers
[16:09] <patdk-wk> they can be instantly reused
[16:09] <patdk-wk> buffers are write caches, mainly, they need to be cleaned, before reuse
[16:10] <reisi> aah; well my system most definetly is not capable of flushing 6GB in anywhere near instantly
[16:10] <reisi> we only write peaking somewhere between 150..200 MBps
[16:13] <ssureshot> the grub menu that will appear after a failed shutdown ,, is this considered the recovery menu?  Screen is all black and will not bypass without user intervention?
[16:15] <reisi> ssureshot: grub menu is the menu of grub, it'll allow you to for example select a different kernel image to start; recovery mode is implemented through kernel parameters and as such is selectable as a different menu item
[16:16] <reisi> ssureshot: you'll automatically enter the recovery menu upon kernel and minimal services startup when you select a "linux ......... (recovery)" grub menu item
[16:18] <ssureshot> reisi: my problem is this... I had a power outage over the weekend and the server stopped at the grub menu... Black with grey lettering ect.. why does it just decide to do that sometimes?
[16:18] <ssureshot> I needed to come in to reset the server when it should have just booted
[16:18] <JasonMSP> how do i keep the color highlighting available after piping 'less' at the end of this 'find . | grep string'
[16:20] <reisi> ssureshot: hmm not sure; you'd have to know more about what happened; with the info you just gave me, it'd think that the computer came back too early, perhaps there still was some electricity problems and not all components (hard drives) started properly; who knows
[16:20] <reisi> ssureshot: buy an ups
[16:20] <reisi> ssureshot: disable automatic power-on from bios if you wont buy an ups
[16:25] <ssureshot> reisi: as far as the ups thats what blew up lol.... when I had the systems all plugged into a backup ups I started the server... .. I know this contradicts what I said before but I said that just to get the easy point across.. point bing I have proper power ,, this happens I've noticed after an improper shutdown..
[16:28] <reisi> ssureshot: hmm have to admit that now when i think about it, i've never seen a unclean shutdown on 10.04 ubuntu servers; it's been a while since we last let ups shut down the servers but that went clean as well
[16:29] <reisi> ssureshot: perhaps there's some grub feature in use with the latest ubuntu servers, but i doubt it; i'd still blame electrical problems (i've got a box that has 4 hdd's, and psu cannot afford to boot them instantly, and as such, powering up fails some times, especially with suspend to ram)
[16:35] <reisi> (md does not like if not all harddisks wake up instantly :D)
[16:36] <patdk-wk> if you have 4 drives, that start up, overload the psu
[16:36] <patdk-wk> you are seriously underpowered
[16:36] <patdk-wk> cause 4 drives starting up doesn't take much power
[16:37]  * SpamapS stretches and prepares for the final push of blueprints
[16:37] <reisi> patdk-wk: i haven't diagnosed it any further, that's my home "workstation", just a hunch again.. perhaps it could be that some of those drives just have a difficulty of starting up?
[16:38] <reisi> patdk-wk: actually the hunch is based on some article discussing the consumer psu's having low per line capabilities
[16:39] <patdk-wk> low per line?
[16:39] <reisi> per voltage lines
[16:40] <patdk-wk> na, a 800watt psu, will give you 800watts, be it a server psu, or not
[16:40] <patdk-wk> now if you go buy a 4 channel psu, and load all your drives on one channel, that is your issue :)
[16:40] <patdk-wk> personally I would only buy single channel ones
[16:41] <SpamapS> >: damnit, do they have to use the loudest possible weed eater *every* monday, right outside my window?
[16:41] <reisi> patdk-wk: have to admit that i haven't had any energy to tinker with that box, just threw it together from parts that i was able to get the day i decided to get a new one
[16:42] <ssureshot> I found this in the /etc/default/grub file #GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_RECOVERY="true" wonder if that would stop that meny from displaying,, I guess Ill have to test it
[16:43] <reisi> ssureshot: i'm pretty 99.99999% sure it's a switch for generating the recovery items to the list or not, defaults to true
[16:43] <ssureshot> I am not too familiar yet with grub2 so I've found this to read http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/grub-2.html
[16:43] <ssureshot> ah roger that
[16:44] <reisi> /etc/default/grub is read by the update-grub (or something like that) script .. its pretty straightforward to read
[16:45] <ssureshot> that would make sense since that probably isn't mounted yet when the menu is displayed
[16:50] <amokpaule> Hello, i have an ubuntu hom server and a non linux network printer. if i install windows 7 or windows server 2008 as an ve on my ubuntu server could i make it that my printer is installed on that ve and can i give it free over something like samba so that my linux clients can print?
[17:17] <kpettit> is there anything on a default ubuntu server setup that tries to send out emails?
[17:17] <nealmcb> kpettit: well, there are internal things like cron will mail root with errors
[17:18] <kpettit> do you know where I can find those things?  I'm trying to audit system to see what would try to email.  I'm going through cron now but it's slow
[17:22] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: ping?
[17:22] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: pong
[17:22] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: so it works!! squid-deb-proxy + preseed
[17:22] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: :-)  you da man!
[17:23] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: how long does an install take?
[17:23] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: not much on nqa
[17:23] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: it seems a bit slower as if we were using a local mirror though
[17:23] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: can you time it?
[17:23] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: sure, let me start another install
[17:23] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: cool
[17:23] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: also, is it ext3 or ext4?
[17:23] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: note that ext3 will be 2x faster
[17:24] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: ext3 as per your preseed
[17:24] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: cool
[17:24] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: I'm using your nqa preseed with the modifications required for the mirror
[17:24] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: hopefully we'll get that dpkg/ext4 bug fixed one day
[17:26] <nealmcb> kpettit: I just mean that the cron system itself will send mail when there is any output (presumably to stdout or stderr?)
[17:26] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: hehe... yeah!! anywyas, there's seems to also been some kind of weird behavior
[17:26] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: how so?
[17:26] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: i got it working friday night, and today I tried to do it again and couldn't install
[17:26] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: appeared that it didn't pass through the proxy
[17:27] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: after a will of try/retry checking if config was ok and restart squid-deb-proxy then
[17:27] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: it started working again
[17:27] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: hmm, weird... do you have logs from both?
[17:27] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: so I'm not sure what might be going wrong
[17:27] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: the installation logs show that couldn't download from the specified mirror
[17:27] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: the proxy's didn't show any logs
[17:28] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: do you have instructions for me to test it here?
[17:28] <ScottK> robbiew: I would appreciate it if you would accept https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-o-postfix-enhancements for UDS.
[17:28] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: yeah
[17:28] <kpettit> nealmcb, thanks.  Gives me a good spot to look
[17:28] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: install squid-deb-proxy in youir cobbler server
[17:28] <robbiew> ScottK: ack
[17:28] <RoAkSoAx> and I'll paste you the preseed
[17:29] <robbiew> ScottK: seems to be already approved...I'll make sure it's scheduled
[17:30] <ScottK> Thanks.
[17:30] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/602369/
[17:30] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: so jsut either netboot or use koan
[17:31] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: okay, and where exactly do i put that?
[17:31] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: are you testing this on real hardware, or in vm's?
[17:31] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: cobbler/squid-deb-proxy is real hw
[17:31] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: installations are in VM's in two different laptops
[17:31] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: cool
[17:32] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: okay, so i'll give that a try in a little bit
[17:32] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: paste the preseed in /var/lib/cobbler/nqa-mirror.seed
[17:32] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: and modify the profile of the imported mini ISO you'll use
[17:32] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: my main laptop is really hosed, so i'm going to reinstall 11.04 from scratch
[17:32] <RoAkSoAx> and point to that seed
[17:32] <kirkland> k
[17:33] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: ok ;)
[17:38] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: ok, so it took almost 4 mins and 30 secs since. This is in a VM on my x201, and takes way less time than mother laptops thanks to the SSD
[17:38] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: perfect, that's what i was hoping for ... 4-5 minutes
[17:39] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: I'd like to see how it would behave when there's various systems using the proxy though!
[17:41] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: I guess that the only thing now is to generate a template preseed, that automatically sets the proxy IP/port and archive to be used. And obviosly install squid-deb-proxy by default to use the proxy after installation
[17:56] <koolhead17> hi all
[18:27] <Nikolasr> Hello, i got problem on ubuntu server 11.04 anyone can help me?
[18:28] <rizzuh_laptop> How suitable is btrfs on top of mdraid 5 for four drives (up to 3TB each) on a media/storage home server, in comparison with ZFS?
[18:32] <Macer> zfs is most likely better than md any day
[18:32] <Macer> butt in your config you may wish to go true hw raid
[18:33] <Macer> a 4 drive raid card isnt that expensive
[18:33] <Macer> and they have nice things like a backup battery to keep writes in memory so  nothing is damaged on powering back up
[18:34] <Macer> honestly... other than a couple features zfs  doesnt really offer much compared to a real raid minus the cost of the controller
[18:35] <Nikolasr> Anyone having problem with graphich...after installation LOGIN SCREEN isnt readable..Whats that?
[18:35] <_johnny> Macer: compression?
[18:35] <_johnny> and dupes
[18:35] <Macer> well... dedupe too
[18:35] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, I've lost data with btrfs before, keep backups (I do)
[18:36] <Macer> all the other stuff you can already do
[18:36] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, in what scenario?
[18:36] <Macer> although datasets are also nice
[18:36] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, eg, your failure, btrfs` failure or a combination?
[18:36] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, plain desktop usage, corrupted itself, was also using compression
[18:37] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, circa 2.6.32, it's better now but it still has bugs
[18:37] <Macer> but in linux without zfs you can just bind mount if it is that serious
[18:37] <_johnny> Macer: so your selling point has become a jibberish subjective statement? :(
[18:37] <Macer> well.. zfs does  have cpu overhead
[18:37] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, alright.
[18:37] <rizzuh_laptop> Macer, should have highlighed me, just saw your messages.
[18:37] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, I agree with Macer for the most part. It's easy to get distracted by storage bling. remember, it's all about the integrity of your data
[18:37] <_johnny> you shouldn't use zfs on mac, obviously
[18:38] <rizzuh_laptop> Macer, hardware RAID doesn't address silent data corruption, which on 2-3TB drives can be a pig PITA. And it's far too expensive for a home server.
[18:38] <_johnny> ppetraki: every zfs maillist agrees
[18:38] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, you can use MD as the backing store for LVM BTW
[18:38] <Nikolasr> Anyone to help on my question?
[18:38] <Macer> rizzuh_laptop: solar winds?
[18:38] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, MD has a "check" function for bit rot
[18:38] <Macer> gamma rays? :)
[18:38] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, true, but I need the filesystem to support data checksums, so data corruption is detected.
[18:39] <Nikolasr> Guys?
[18:39] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, I can't check every day, gotta have it automatic when the file is accessed.
[18:39] <rizzuh_laptop> Macer, no, with big drives it's a noticeable issues, more so on big files.
[18:39] <Macer> journaling doesnt catch bitrot"
[18:39] <_johnny> Nikolasr: what's the question?
[18:39] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, basic checksums are already written to disk
[18:39] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, again, a good HW raid covers you pretty well
[18:40] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, nope, they're blissfully unaware of bit rot.
[18:40] <Nikolasr> @_johnny: Anyone having problem with graphich...after installation LOGIN SCREEN isnt readable..Whats that?
[18:40] <rizzuh_laptop> Macer, not journaling. ZFS does data integrity tests.
[18:40] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, netapp?
[18:40] <Nikolasr> _johnny: Anyone having problem with graphich...after installation LOGIN SCREEN isnt readable..Whats that?
[18:40] <Macer> uhm
[18:41] <_johnny> bad gfx driver mabye? only noticed it a time when i had a buggy disk inserted, but onlye 1 time on startup
[18:41] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, home media/storage server.
[18:41] <Nikolasr> When its booting from cd its requring to choose what display mode i want to choose..
[18:41] <rizzuh_laptop> Macer, ZFS checksums on block level and upon hash failure it restores from redundant locations.
[18:42] <Nikolasr> I have tried 11.04 server edition disk..But i have 8
[18:42] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, can't have it all :), and a fancy filesystem is no substitute for regular backups
[18:42] <Nikolasr> But i have 8.10 and its readable screen
[18:43] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, yeah, you go tell Joe to backup. Best alternative is to make the storage part very solid.
[18:43] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, I do storage at the kernel level for a living, for years, I can't remember the last time I encountered a bit rot event
[18:43] <Nikolasr> _johnny ?
[18:44] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, yes, it happens, but it doesn't keep me up at night
[18:44] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, perspective is everything, just having a MD based raid puts you ahead of most
[18:44] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, I have today in fact.
[18:44] <_johnny> Nikolasr: which one's readable?
[18:44] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, backups?
[18:45]  * ppetraki backs up weekly to cloud and local storage
[18:45] <Nikolasr> that one 8.10 server edition
[18:45] <Nikolasr> but i want newer one
[18:45] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, SATA?
[18:45] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, well it was from a freshly ripped disk. After-rip check passed, then a few hours later it went kaput.
[18:45] <rizzuh_laptop> yes
[18:45] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, not really. All decent NAS solutions use mdraid.
[18:45] <Nikolasr> @_johny Its like having phyroglipies..
[18:45] <_johnny> probably bogus gfx driver
[18:45] <Nikolasr> What you prefer to do
[18:46] <_johnny> get the latest driver. install with aptitude or some other ssh way
[18:46] <_johnny> try booting in safemode, maybe that'll give you a gnome way in
[18:46] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, sorry to hear about the loss, but using SATA is basically asking for bad things to happen
[18:47] <Nikolasr> My driver is on my compaq onboard vga..so i dont think its driver..I have compaq deskpro EN
[18:47] <_johnny> oki, dunno :>
[18:47] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, why? What would you suggest?
[18:49] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, the quality gap is deliberate, it's not because SAS/SCSI is a superior protocol, sure that helps, but the field has decided to put lower quality everything on the ATA side of the fence
[18:49] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, because it's cheaper. SAS isn't an option in this though - home media/storage server.
[18:49] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, really? It doesn't cost what it used to
[18:49] <rizzuh_laptop> it does abotu $100, which is not an option.
[18:50] <rizzuh_laptop> (for LSI 1068e, which is like... dirt cheap)
[18:50] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, yeah, nice old design :)
[18:50] <rizzuh_laptop> And SATA drives with SAS controllers don't help.
[18:50] <Nikolasr> Anyone other to help me?
[18:50] <rizzuh_laptop> The geeks might stick in a SAS card and use nice drives, but Joe won't care.
[18:50] <RoyK> rizzuh_laptop: SATA drives work well on SAS...
[18:51] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, SATA on SAS controller is literraly a forked device, there's a separate firmware stack that does just ATA, I don't recommend it, the support varies
[18:51] <rizzuh_laptop> RoyK, but you don't get the SAS advantage.
[18:51] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, LSI has good support for that.
[18:51] <rizzuh_laptop> But I know that.
[18:51] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, yeah they do, earlier adaptec SAS didn't, up until the aic94xx
[18:52] <RoyK> rizzuh_laptop: you don't get the full SAS advantage, no, but support for SAS expanders etc is good
[18:52] <Macer> tigerdirect sells fake plants
[18:52] <Macer> wth?
[18:53] <Moobyfr_> sata drives aren't made to work 24h a day 365...
[18:53] <ppetraki> that's right
[18:53] <rizzuh_laptop> RoyK, for home media/storage server... that's useless, heh.
[18:53] <RoyK> Moobyfr_: some of them are, but not all
[18:53] <ppetraki> the "enterprise" SATA ones
[18:53] <rizzuh_laptop> Moobyfr_, some are, eg hitachi's 7K line is the same as the Ultrastar, except warranty.
[18:53] <rizzuh_laptop> 7K3000 == A7K3000 - warranty
[18:54] <Macer> my wd 1TB drives have been running since 2007
[18:54] <ppetraki> I literrally refer to SATA as just another 4 letter word, it's caused me so much grief with customers cutting corners.
[18:55] <Macer> 24 hrs a day without a hiccup
[18:55] <ppetraki> seen people buy 12K servers only to populate it with the worlds cheapest disks. insane
[18:55] <RoyK> Moobyfr_: I read a test done over several years with about 100k drives of all sorts of makes, from desktop to enterprise, SATA, SAS, FC etc, and the end result was there wasn't possible to determine which drives were better in terms of reliability
[18:55] <Macer> haha
[18:55] <RoyK> Moobyfr_: we're using desktop drives for some 350TB net storage, and it works
[18:56] <Moobyfr_> I can provide my stats about HD :)
[18:56] <ppetraki> that's wonderful, it doesn't compare to my first hand experience :)
[18:56] <Moobyfr_> on several yers there is no choice :)
[18:56] <RoyK> Macer: no haha - that was the numbers - several very large datacentres were involved - the same result came from google's internal report a few years ago
[18:57] <RoyK> imho the only way to be safe, is to have good redundancy
[18:57] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, so I get where you're coming from, you want to do more with less. If ZFS is that important to you, and this is basically a well purposed appliance you could go with one of those open sourcy solaris distros and call it done
[18:57] <RoyK> enterprise drives fail just as quickly as desktop drives
[18:58] <RoyK> say WD - the only difference between a WD Black and the 'raid level' aka 'enterprise' drive, is the firmware - same build, same production line
[18:58] <Macer> RoyK: money talks
[18:59] <RoyK> perhaps some burn-in for the enterprise, but you can do that easily yourself
[18:59] <Macer> which is why datacenters are redundant
[18:59] <RoyK> and which is why many datacentres uses desktop drives, because they work just as well
[18:59] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, it's important because it offers a solid advantage over competitors, and is a legitimate need.
[18:59] <Macer> cheaper short  term to replace a cheap disk here and there than to pay for the more expensive ones in one shot
[19:00] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, Linux has been doing "we need a super FS" for almost a decade now, XFS, JFS, reiser, and  now finally btrfs
[19:00] <RoyK> for our 350TB setup, the price would be more than doubled if we chose enterprise drives, so we didn't
[19:00] <RoyK> ppetraki: you need ZFS :)
[19:00] <Macer> RoyK: no point with proper redundancy
[19:00] <rizzuh_laptop> ppetraki, yeah, I've seen that.
[19:00] <ppetraki> RoyK, I need multipath to work better
[19:01] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, at the high end, they just throw an EMC or NA at it and call it done
[19:01]  * RoyK has moved to openindiana for storage - linux simply isn't good enough
[19:01] <Macer> oi was a letdown
[19:01] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, but with everything getting cheaper, more can be done in software to bridge that gap
[19:01] <Macer> i loved osol
[19:01] <Macer> oi is stunted
[19:01] <ppetraki> rizzuh_laptop, so btrfs/zfs have arrived at the right time
[19:02] <Macer> damn you  oracle!
[19:02] <RoyK> Macer: really?
[19:02] <RoyK> works for me (tm)
[19:02] <ppetraki> I have to get going, hope you get your data sorted out
[19:14]  * SpamapS starts the neverending erlang compile
[19:22] <andygraybeal> RoyK, i agree with you about openindiana for storage.  i've been considering nexentastor for a while now.  (it's opensolaris now. but they are moving to openindiana)
[19:23] <RoyK> andygraybeal: nexenta is ok, but nexentastor is incredibly overpriced
[19:24] <andygraybeal> true, i don't have that many resources, so it was free for me
[19:24] <RoyK> with 100TB, you'll pay more for the license than for the hardware, and you won't get any guaranteed support or onsite help, so imho it's rather worthless - better spend more money on redundancy
[19:24] <andygraybeal> i'm not at the point where i have the knowledge to do any of that stuff with out a webform prompting me.
[19:25] <andygraybeal> i was proud when i got ZFS permssions working!!@ (not posix pos in linux)
[19:25] <RoyK> andygraybeal: if you're using zfs, whatever platform, and the shit hits the fan, you need knowledge and good support personenl inhouse, not someone to call
[19:25] <andygraybeal> it worked like a dream,and just like the documentation said.
[19:26] <RoyK> zfs-fuse is ok, but it's a bit on the slow side on writes, last I checked
[19:51] <_SHuN_> after upgraded my kernel, the motd is showing dupplicated...
[20:02] <ignarps> _SHuN_, edit /etc/motd.tail ?
[20:02] <ruben23> hi guys
[20:03] <ruben23> hi guys do i need x server installed on my ubuntu server to used virt-manager..?
[20:03] <ruben23> for KVm virtualization..?
[20:04] <pmatulis> ruben23: i use virt-manager remotely (over ssh) and the remote host does not have a desktop interface.  just install 'virt-manager' on the remote host
[20:05] <ruben23> pmatulis: ok thanks
[20:10] <_SHuN_> ignarps: thx
[20:13] <RoyK> someone should teach bug reporters to post in English
[20:16] <genii-around> Or internationalize the bug reporting or something
[20:16] <RoyK> heh - run it through google translate? that can introduce a few issues :P
[20:17] <genii-around> Yeah maybe
[20:18] <bsodmike> hello :)
[20:22] <RoyK> EHLO
[20:24] <bsodmike> hey RoyK
[20:24] <bsodmike> I had to run mount -t devpts /dev/ptmx /dev/pts on my box
[20:25] <bsodmike> any ideas how I can get this to persist at boot?
[20:25] <bsodmike> this was to get screen working right again
[20:25] <bsodmike> else it'd whine about no more PTYs
[20:27] <RoyK> bsodmike: strange - the ubuntu servers I've installed haven't had a problem with PTYs
[20:27] <bsodmike> mine's running as VPS @ media temple
[20:27] <bsodmike> just had this one issue after a container restore
[20:27] <RoyK> well, add it to /etc/fstab
[20:29] <_johnny> hi. i officially give up so now i come to ask for help. i've installed apache2, php5(.3.3) and phpmyadmin. apparently php5.3.3 packaged with ubuntu packages isn't built with mysql support (built-in for 5.3+). any ideas how to fix this? i've tried compiling myself and installing... however, apache2 still loads the 5.3.3 one (as opposed to 5.3.6)
[20:30] <RoyK> _johnny: apt-get install php5-mysql
[20:31] <RoyK> you may have to restart apache after that one
[20:31] <_johnny> RoyK: i already have that
[20:32] <bsodmike> RoyK: it's listed in mtab already?
[20:32] <RoyK> php5 mysql support has been working for ages
[20:32] <RoyK> bsodmike: mtab shows what's mounted, fstab shows what's supposed to be mounted at boot
[20:32] <bsodmike> this is my fstab
[20:32] <bsodmike> proc  /proc       proc    defaults    0    0
[20:32] <bsodmike> none  /dev/pts    devpts  rw          0    0
[20:33] <RoyK> !pastebin
[20:33] <bsodmike> apologies
[20:33] <bsodmike> is that correct?
[20:33] <bsodmike> none should be /dev/ptmx ?
[20:34] <_johnny> RoyK: i'm aware. and it works on my mac just fine, however, not on ubuntu. and judging from phpinfo() my best guess is that php isn't built with mysql native driver enabled
[20:34] <hallyn_afk> yes there's no device
[20:34] <RoyK> bsodmike: never seen that issue, sorry
[20:34] <hallyn_afk> bsodmike: it's correct
[20:34] <bsodmike> oh
[20:34] <RoyK> _johnny: check /etc/apache2/mods-enabled
[20:35] <RoyK> _johnny: there should be a symlink there to /etc/apache2/mods-available for the php module
[20:35] <RoyK> _johnny: on which ubuntu version are you running?
[20:37] <_johnny> 10.10, and which module should i look for? the "php5" is enabled, there is no php5-mysql
[20:40] <RoyK> _johnny: mysql is part of php
[20:40] <_johnny> i know! :P
[20:41] <_johnny> but the apt-get install php5 does NOT have mysql built in
[20:41] <RoyK> _johnny: also, keep in mind that most servers should be running LTS releases unless there is some cutting edge software needed
[20:41] <bsodmike> johnny, a2enmod rewrite don't forget that too
[20:41] <RoyK> bsodmike: which is the same as changing symlinks......
[20:41] <bsodmike> ok nn all
[20:42] <bsodmike> RoyK
[20:42] <bsodmike> indeed :)
[20:42] <_johnny> bsodmike: i have that enabled (and working) too, but thanks
[20:42] <_johnny> RoyK: sorry, LTS?
[20:42] <RoyK> !lts
[20:42] <_johnny> fair point, but the php i have is not experimental, and it hardly looks like a bug
[20:43] <_johnny> you have to enable mysql when you compile php, so it looks (to me) more as if it just isn't built-in the "php5" package
[20:43] <kpettit> Can you have multiple apache ssl virtualhosts on the same IP address?  I keep hearing you can and that you can't.  Would love to find some good docs for it
[20:43] <_johnny> which gives merit to php5-mysql. however, the output from php is the same with or without
[21:22] <ruben23> hi guys i have a linux server with a publci ip of <IP_ADDRESS> - then i have a domain of itselction.com = how do i configure my server to used those domain since its already pointed to my server ip
[21:23] <JasonMSP> ruben23: google apache virtual server
[21:23] <ruben23>  JasonMSP: do i need to setup virtual server to used the domain..?
[21:26] <ppetraki> ruben23, if its just the web, then yeah vhost is what you need, however you should already be able to ssh to your box using the DNS name
[21:27] <_johnny> RoyK: i took this screenshot in case it sheds any light on things (note the missing A) for php5-mysql
[21:38] <ChrisBuchholz> Hey guys. On ubuntu 11.04 server, when i add a ppa with add-apt-repository and then apt-get update, it doesnt list the ppa in the output of the repositories it reads, and i cant install the software from the ppa either. Its like it "ignores" it. Isnt add-apt-repository the way to do it?
[21:39] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, it is, but not all PPAs support the distro you're running
[21:39] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: but this one does: https://launchpad.net/~jerome-etienne/+archive/neoip?field.series_filter=natty
[21:40] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, so what does your /etc/apt.d look like then?
[21:40] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, err, /etc/apt/sources.d
[21:41] <ChrisBuchholz> /etc/apt/sources.list.d?
[21:41] <ruben23>  hi guys if i create a guest VM on kvm- and its using NAt to guest VM are ther any chances i can access the guest Vm outside network or remotely..? how do i do that..?
[21:41] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, yeah, that one :)
[21:42] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: theres a jerome-etienne-neoip-natty.list and jerome-etienne-neoip-natty.list.save files inside
[21:42] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: and they seem to contain what they should
[21:42] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, so it's deb.... natty main ?
[21:43] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: yes indeed
[21:45] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, then the cache would be the next diagnostic step
[21:45] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: can i do a "update-no-cache"?
[21:46] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, I'm no apt expert :(
[21:46] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, I think it's apt-get clean && apt-cache gencaches
[21:46] <ppetraki> Hmm... what would be the right channel for this particular question?
[21:47] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, #ubuntu-packaging ? that's a guess
[21:48] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: hmm, i will google a bit for how to empty cache first
[21:48] <ChrisBuchholz> the commands you gave didnt work
[21:48] <ChrisBuchholz> or, yes, they worked, but ... :P
[21:50] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, that's odd, yeah, if you can resolve that URL (I can), and the list file is correct and you don't see it in the updates then something silly is going on
[21:50] <ChrisBuchholz> yeah, indeed
[21:50] <ChrisBuchholz> havent had this problem before
[21:54] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, an strace of apt-get update would be useful, dump it to a file. atleast then you would see if it actually opened the new list file or not
[21:56] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: https://gist.github.com/952345
[21:58] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: you see?
[21:58] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, yeah
[21:58] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, try this instead, "strace -o out.list apt-get update"
[21:59] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, http://pastebin.com/rQ5mXiSk
[21:59] <_johnny> ok, i give up. i'll run the interface for mysql on a different OS :P
[21:59] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, so there I can verify that it's actually read my ppas
[22:02] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: http://paste.ubuntu.com/602496/
[22:07] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, what language locale are you running?
[22:08] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: i would guess english?
[22:09] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, I'm just trying to make sense of this, it finds your sources file, allocs a fd to it and does real work
[22:09] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, open("/etc/apt/sources.list.d/jerome-etienne-neoip-natty.list", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
[22:09] <ppetraki> read(4, "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jer"..., 8191) = 140
[22:09] <ppetraki> read(4, "", 8191)                       = 0
[22:09] <ppetraki> close(4)
[22:10] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, that's around line 183
[22:10] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: yeah. So it should wok?
[22:10] <ChrisBuchholz> work
[22:10] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, correct
[22:11] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, so this could be a gpg fumble (silently) or something else, but apt knows it's there, and it's been discounted for some unexplained reason
[22:11] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, sounds like you've got an interesting little puzzle :)
[22:12] <ChrisBuchholz> in this case, i dont like puzzles! :P
[22:12] <ChrisBuchholz> just tried with another ppa - some thing
[22:13] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, well, atleast it's consistent
[22:13] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, I think bringing this to more of an admin channel would be of better use to you
[22:14] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, seeing that no one has jumped up to help you except for a kernel engineer who has a disdainful relationship with userspace :-p
[22:14] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, it got the distro right too, see natty in the filename
[22:15] <ChrisBuchholz> yes i see that
[22:16] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, <05:15:25>tmp$ echo "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jerome-etienne/neoip/ubuntu natty main" | wc -c
[22:16] <ppetraki> 68
tmp$ echo "deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/jerome-etienne/neoip/ubuntu natty main" | wc -c
[22:16] <ppetraki> 72
[22:16] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, 72+68=140, so the read is probably accurate
[22:17] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: alright. Dont know what that mean but i trust you :)
[22:17] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, see this? read(4, "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jer"..., 8191) = 140
[22:17] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: yes
[22:17] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, it means the read call succeed in acquiring 140 chars
[22:18] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: ah right
[22:18] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, I went to the PPA and replicated what the deb, deb-src lines should look like if they're correct, and the two lines add up to 140
[22:18] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, simple checksum :)
[22:19] <ChrisBuchholz> yes ;
[22:19] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, so we know apt isn't ignorant of the data, it's discarded it for some reason. You might have found a bug :)
[22:19] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: but i dont need a bug right now! :D
[22:19] <ChrisBuchholz> aah:D
[22:19] <ChrisBuchholz> ppetraki: well, thank you so far. Have to get to bed now, school tomorrow!
[22:20] <ChrisBuchholz> bye
[22:21] <dob_> what will i have to allow in iptables to remove this log message: IN= OUT=eth0 SRC=<IP_ADDRESS> DST=<IP_ADDRESS> LEN=84 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=47324 PROTO=ICMP TYPE=0 CODE=0 ID=15983 SEQ=2
[22:22] <ppetraki> ChrisBuchholz, bye
[22:22] <dob_> SRC is my servers address, dST is the host i ping from
[22:22] <dob_> Tried iptables -A OUTPUT -p ICMP 		--icmp-type echo-request -j ACCEPT
[22:24] <ppetraki> dob_, -A INPUT ?
[22:24] <david5345> Can I set asterisk global variables from /etc/default/asterisk ?
[22:24] <dob_> tried that too
[22:25] <alamar> dob_: dont append but insert
[22:25] <alamar> if you somewhere above the new rule already -j DROP icmp stuff the rule will never be reached within your input chain
[22:26] <dob_> ah alright
[22:28] <dob_> alamar: thanks! that was the reason *sigh*
[22:29] <alamar> np
[22:37] <dob_> if i have a -P OUTPUT ACCEPT and create a -j LOG, will then the accepted connections be logged?
[22:37] <dob_> is that correct?
[22:56] <Macer> why doesnt the motd change?
[22:56] <Macer> i changed it  with sudo and it keeps going  back to the default
[23:00] <Macer> seriously? must motd be this complicated?  lol
[23:00] <soren> Macer: Look at /etc/update-motd.d
[23:01] <soren> Macer: Short version: Put something in /etc/motd.tail and it'll get appended to motd. That's probably the easiest, but may not be what you're looking for.
[23:06] <Macer> ok thanks
[23:06] <Macer> :)
[23:28] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: ping
[23:50] <reyeryshs> I need help on my ubuntu E. cloud
[23:51] <reyeryshs> I've try entering my server ip and :8443 and it gave me "Invalid Server CertificateA request failed because the server's certificate was invalid."
[23:53] <SpamapS> ugh we need to get on our Triage horses
[23:54] <RoAkSoAx> lynxman: ping


[07:39] <stevenda__> Hi
[07:39] <rww> hi
[07:40] <stevenda__> Thanks, bye
[07:40] <stevenda__> Wasn't sure whether rww and elky were ops
[07:41] <elky> he doesn't remember us banning him for months?
[07:41] <elky> how cute
[07:44] <chu> lol
[07:44] <rww> to be fair neither do i
[07:44] <rww> i only found out he's retroispresto today
[07:44] <elky> i just assume any nick that looks like the name steven is him these days
[07:44] <chu> Haha, yes.
[07:45] <elky> i'm pretty sure that gives a 90% success rate
[07:45] <rww> elky: if Stephen Fry joins #ubuntu-offtopic one day and you ban him, I may divorce you
[07:46] <elky> i'm pretty sure i will be able to pick fry from retro on the first sentence.
[09:38] <lerner> hi there.   And I was offering them linux solutions
[09:47] <tochapos> Pretending?
[11:22] <ikonia> elky: that guy has been using a few nicks and hitting peeople in #ubuntu
[11:23] <k1l_> since months
[11:23] <ikonia> I've had a few of variations in the last week asking if I'd like a various sexual experiences
[11:23] <ikonia> he seemed unable to deliver though when I agreed I'd like to take him up on his offer
[11:23] <ikonia> so it's pretty bad false advertising
[15:05] <hypermist> I have a complaint to make about tiliopp
[15:05] <hypermist> He just pm'd me saying something about another user <tiliopp> you bastard. CinnamonRickRoll wants to pull your pants down
[15:05] <hypermist> ?:)
[15:05] <ikonia> ok
[15:06] <k1l_> again using open proxies
[15:06] <hypermist> Heh
[15:06] <k1l_> hypermist: thanks. if he continous tell the staff in #freenode he is gone from the ubuntu channels
[15:07] <hypermist> Will do k1l_
[15:08] <k1l_> freenode really should block open proxies. but they will not care, as long as their own channels are not hit.
[15:08] <hypermist> Ikr, you get people using openvpn like crazy
[15:10] <hypermist> what ya know k1l_ he's still going hahah
[15:11] <k1l_> report to #freenode staff then
[15:11] <hypermist> I just got told to use /ignore :|
[15:12] <k1l_> ok, so again, freenode staff doesnt care.
[15:12] <hypermist> Indeed. ._.
[15:18] <IdleOne> if freenode starting blocking every troll there would be 3 user on freenode
[15:18] <IdleOne> users*
[15:35] <k1l_> hypermist: if that is dealt with please part this channel. you are free to come back if there is another issue
[15:35] <hypermist> alright k1
[16:26] <k1l_> zzxc: hi
[16:26] <zzxc> k1l_: hey how is it going?
[16:27] <k1l_> zzxc: hi. this is a team channel. is there anything we can help you with the ubuntu channels?
[16:27] <zzxc> Ah I forgot to part the channels.
[16:27] <zzxc> No Znc automatically joined the channel. My apologies.
[16:28] <k1l_> alright
[16:28] <zzxc> Thank you though. Have a good day.
[17:19] <kloeri> k1l_: do you have some way of blocking all open proxies without false positives?
[17:22] <niko> k1l_: "they will not care," > thanks for hours, if not weeks i spend on that :)
[21:11] <ikonia> hello souplady