[11:53] <soee> win! :D https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/tomb-raider-the-awesome-2013-version-looks-like-its-heading-to-steamos-linux.6581
[12:56] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:01] <lordievader> clivejo: Are you at FOSDEM?
[15:07] <clivejo> lordievader: nope Im not
[15:07] <clivejo> wishing I was though
[15:13] <lordievader> Hmm, too bad. :(
[15:13] <clivejo> yofel or sgclark about?
[15:13] <sgclark> here and there, but not completely, just doing a merge now and then
[15:14] <clivejo> would you have time to guide me through backporting plasma 5.5.4?
[15:15] <sgclark> no sorry, today is family day
[15:15] <clivejo> ok
[15:27] <soee_> http://www.cio.com/article/3027639/linux/kubuntu-founder-jonathan-riddell-to-announce-project-neon-at-fosdem.html
[16:06] <soee_> sgclark: how complex is backporting proccess ?
[16:09] <sgclark> I was using hacked up scripts to do them so overly complex. I see though that backports have been done since so maybe yofel made a cleaner way?
[16:30] <yofel> sgclark: read kubuntu-batch-backport-git, that's essentially my shell history
[16:31] <yofel> only works with unreleased stuff so far, but that'll work for now
[16:32] <yofel> you'll want to do that by hand though as we need a way to automate error-handling from do-all before we can have one script for that
[16:33] <sgclark> ah. clivejo ^
[16:34] <sgclark> soonest I could get to it is Monday, mostly afk this weekend.
[16:34] <yofel> sure, me too 11
[16:34] <yofel> ^^
[17:07] <soee_> yofel: and clivejo can do it (have access to all this) ?
[17:11] <yofel> yes
[18:24] <ovidiu-florin> sgclark: you're on fire these days
[18:24] <ovidiu-florin> awesome work
[18:24] <ovidiu-florin> >:D<
[18:26] <sgclark> still many merges to go :(
[19:56] <clivejo> yofel: ping
[20:16] <yofel> clivejo: hm?
[20:16] <clivejo> trying to do these backports
[20:16] <clivejo> anything I need to know?
[20:17] <yofel> hm.. I don't think so. You just need to merge the branches and generate packages from the resulting wily branch
[20:18] <yofel> just pay attention to any errors in the commands
[20:18] <clivejo> so Im following that script kubuntu-batch-backport-git
[20:18] <clivejo> Ive done the clone
[20:18] <clivejo> checkout and merge
[20:18] <clivejo> all seem to go pretty normal, no errors
[20:19] <yofel> ok, I didn't get any errors last time either
[20:19] <clivejo> currently on git-buildpackage-ppa
[20:19] <clivejo> but wanted to double check with you before I do a push
[20:20] <clivejo> is there anything I should look out for?
[20:20] <clivejo> or what should I be checking
[20:21] <yofel> you will have to switch the status page to wily, but otherwise the backports work the same as uploading for dev
[20:22] <yofel> theoretically there could be wily specific changes that you need to make, but most of that should already be in the backports branch, so there's little chance of you having to add anything
[20:23] <clivejo> oh I see a mistake already
[20:23] <clivejo> passed the wrong variable
[20:24] <clivejo> $stable_version is the distro version :/
[20:24] <yofel> right ^^
[20:24] <clivejo> lets try that again!
[20:25] <clivejo> I put the plasma version ie 5.5.4
[20:25] <clivejo> duh
[20:27] <clivejo> gonna have to do discover manually
[20:28] <clivejo> so all we are doing is taking the xenial_archive git and merging it into backports?
[20:29] <clivejo> does it matter that xenial_archive is still UNRELEASED?
[20:31] <soee_> http://neon.kde.org.uk/ :)
[20:41] <acher88> tried neon of a wily vm and so far so good, though not done much with it
[20:43] <soee_> well it i just starting
[20:43] <soee_> much work to be done
[21:02] <user> yofel: amarok in the kubuntu backports ppa is not functional ... but since the version number is 2.8.90 the default amarok install is overwritten
[21:04] <user> yofel: would be great if someone could either fix or remove tha package from the backports ppa
[21:11] <yofel> clivejo: yes, otherwise we would need to add another changelog for the backport
[21:12] <yofel> user: define unfunctional? But I can remove it, sure
[21:12] <clivejo> yofel: ok to start uploading them to ppa?
[21:12] <clivejo> Ill upload before I do a push?
[21:13] <yofel> order doesn't matter, but go ahead with uploading it to staging
[21:14] <clivejo> uploading now
[21:14] <clivejo> also git push to KA
[21:15] <user> yofel: i can't play any music
[21:15] <user> yofel: when pushing the play button nothing happens. fresh install. tested different phonon backends always the same
[21:16] <user> i am not really experienced with apt pinning, so i couldn't test the repo version as I went straight to backports from a fresh install
[21:16] <yofel> and that works if you *just* downgrade amarok?
[21:16] <user> sry for that noob question, how would i do that?
[21:17] <yofel> try: sudo apt install amarok=2:2.8.0-0ubuntu6
[21:17] <yofel> you might need to downgrade a lib package too or so
[21:17] <user> i wanted to do that, it told me it does not find that version
[21:18] <user> oh i might have forgotten the 2: in the beginning ... brb, testing
[21:21] <soee_> hmm it shows 5.5.3 http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/plasma/build_status_5.5.4_wily.html
[21:22] <yofel> why are you always so impatient? :D
[21:22]  * clivejo bites tongue
[21:22] <soee_> ;D
[21:22] <clivejo> Im still uploading soee_
[21:22] <soee_> oki :)
[21:22] <clivejo> blame my slow internet :P
[21:23] <soee_> but mobile :D my mobile is 3x faster than cable ...
[21:23] <soee_> *buy
[21:23] <clivejo> LOL
[21:23] <soee_> though t-mobile offers me 7gb in my plan only :<
[21:23] <clivejo> I have a mobile
[21:23] <clivejo> 4G
[21:24] <clivejo> but the nearest mast is only 2G
[21:24] <soee_> clivejo: how you plan looks like ?
[21:24] <clivejo> and for that I have to hang out an upstairs window!
[21:24] <soee_> do you have some limits etc.
[21:25] <clivejo> I was on an all you can eat tariff, but fell out with the mobile network
[21:26] <clivejo> they wont upgrade my local mast
[21:26] <kuser> yofel: i'm user, just from the other machine, it seems the downgrade did nothing :-( still the same problem with the repo version
[21:26] <kuser> yofel: any idea? it does not even give me an error ... it just does nothing when pressing play
[21:27] <soee_> clivejo: what i dont like in tmobile is a long time for updates, for example i bought new phone last week - S5 Neo but with android 5.1.1
[21:27] <soee_> and for 6.0 i will ave to wait few months :/
[21:27] <soee_> or maybe it is more related to Samsung beeing lazy
[21:27] <clivejo> soee_: yup, hate samsung
[21:28] <clivejo> load of bloatware and so slow with updates
[21:28] <soee_> +1000
[21:28] <clivejo> I rooted and installed CM13 on mine :)
[21:28] <soee_> bfore S3 i had always Sony Ericson
[21:28] <clivejo> and all the Samsung bloatware is gone
[21:28] <soee_> never tried LG or Nokia etc.
[21:29] <soee_> i try to stick with official firmware
[21:29] <valorie> user, please run from the commandline: `amarok -d --nofork`
[21:29] <clivejo> I like the Galaxy S phones, but the S6 is going the wrong way, so I think Im jumping ship with Samsung
[21:29] <valorie> and let's move to #kubuntu for support
[21:30] <soee_> clivejo: i like S5 Neo performace
[21:30] <soee_> it has a bit slower CPU compared to S5
[21:30] <soee_> but works pretty fine
[21:31] <soee_> and i cant say anything about S6 as i bever but new phones same year they were released
[21:31] <clivejo> soee_: refresh qa page now
[21:31] <soee_> clivejo: +1 :)
[21:32] <clivejo> I need to go do discover
[21:32] <soee_> huh ?
[21:32] <soee_> packge?
[21:32] <soee_> ah yes, it fails
[21:34] <soee_> clivejo: also repos contsins plasma-discover - 5.5.3a-0ubuntu1~ubuntu15.10~ppa1
[21:34] <soee_> while there shoudl be only 5.5.4
[21:34] <soee_> so probably this one should be removed ?
[21:35] <clivejo> it picks up the old one until the new one is uploaded
[21:35] <clivejo> and starts to build
[21:36] <soee_> ah, ok.
[21:40] <clivejo> yofel: does KCI need to be paused for backports?
[21:40] <yofel> it doesn't
[21:40] <clivejo> so Im ok for a big push
[21:40] <clivejo> ?
[21:43]  * clivejo pushs
[21:45] <clivejo> yofel: is there any way to reverse engineer a .deb binary?
[21:45] <clivejo> to get a /debian folder
[21:46] <vip> clivejo: mc?
[21:47] <clivejo> vip: whats that?
[21:47] <vip> midnight commander
[21:47] <yofel> dpkg-deb can extract the control information from a deb.


[00:58] <persia> ScottL: I think we can get a freeze exception if we do it soon.  I don't have any guidance on artistic direction.  I think we have to get it right before we apply for the exception.  I also think we need to get the exception *before* 11th March, or it gets harder.
[03:26] <ScottL_> persia, after reading the UIFreeze documentation I feel better about where we are, but we still need to get GDM and desktop wallpaper squared away
[03:28] <ScottL_> since the things for which we are asking for the exception do not require translation or documentation then I guess it will be easier
[03:29] <ScottL_> re: plymouth - since there hasn't really been any opinions on the examples I made then I will focus on the plymouth theme that resembles the previous Usplash
[03:30] <persia> I thought I saw some ML traffic.
[03:30] <persia> But at this point, I think we just need something.  Getting it perfect can wait.
[03:35] <ScottL_> only one person really offered an opinion about the splash
[03:36] <persia> Indeed.  Unless there's some reason to believe otherwise, I suggest that if you take silence as assent, you'll get more done :)
[03:37] <ScottL_> LOL...heh, or apathy I suppose instead of assent, either way I want to make some adjustments to text/icon sizes and their locations
[03:38] <ScottL_> kinda wish I had the new ubuntu font to see what it would look like (and see how I could twist it instead something different)
[03:39] <ScottL_> next cycle I plan to be more on top of what is required and when so that we are a little more prepared
[03:39] <persia> It doesn't exist yet.  You might ask in #ubuntu-artwork if anyone has the letters you're missing done.
[03:40] <persia> Asking during the week is likely to get a better response.
[03:40] <ScottL_> eh, i thought mark's blog said some important fontologist was commissioned to do it (sort of implied like it was already done)
[03:45] <ScottL_> persia, is it worth taking the other plymouth themes that I have made, making tarball of them, and putting them on the wiki?
[03:45] <persia> I don't think so :)
[03:46] <persia> Might be useful if you were working with others to compare, etc.
[03:46] <persia> But since there don't seem to be a lot of others, I don't see the point.
[03:46] <persia> Also, for collaboration for code, rather than graphics, something like bzr might be better.
[03:47] <ScottL_> oh, I thought maybe for future reference on later releases (kinda like a scrap book for inspiration)
[03:47] <persia> Could do.  Putting stuff on the internet is generally better than leaving it on one's local machine.
[03:48] <persia> But I still think bzr is likely a better place, rather than a tarball in the wiki.
[03:48] <persia> At least as I understand it, most of a plymouth theme is code, rather than binary blobs.
[03:48] <ScottL_> yeah, your right about code - I could always make my own bzr branch, i've wanted to learn about it but it can come later, i've enough things to keep me busy for a while
[03:48] <ScottL_> yeah, it is...vast improvement from Usplash in that regard - no reall compiling
[03:49] <ScottL_> i don't understand how it works at this point because you are using png files (unless png are already code)
[03:50]  * ScottL_ does a quick wikipedia search on png now
[03:50] <persia> png aren't code, but png can be loaded from code.
[03:50] <persia> or embedded in code.
[03:53] <ScottL_> ah, good (and png on wikipedia was too much to read right now)
[03:53] <persia> heh
[03:54] <ScottL_> hey, any idea on the direction of ubuntu studio with cory gone, luke leaving and luis effectively gone?
[04:00] <persia> I don't have any, personally.
[04:00] <ScottL_> hi troy_s , good post on your blog and very clean, crisp new theme also :)
[04:00] <persia> I've always enjoyed working with studio, but more because I care about the audio production applications than because I care about studio, as such.
[04:00] <troy_s> ScottL_: LOL. I have no clue what those things mean.
[04:01] <persia> I know a fair bit about flavours, and can help with that stuff too, but someone needs to stand up and provide direction, if there is to be some.
[04:01] <troy_s> ScottL_: It's great getting called a douche though.  At least that has been my experience. It seems the tides turn slightly.
[04:03] <ScottL_> persia, maybe i'm asking too much but I hope stochastic can provide some direction, I'll certainly do what I can to support it
[04:04] <ScottL_> troy_s, I have to admit even though I'm not a stupid person you are just too well read and versed in art and graphics for me to understand everything that you write
[04:05] <ScottL_> troy_s, it's like reading 1984 (the novel, nineteen eighty-four if you like), each time I reread it I see (or understand) something I didn't before
[04:05] <troy_s> ScottL_: Ugh. That means it is fail.
[04:05] <ScottL_> troy_s, i'm not a visual kind of guy...well, in an artsy way
[04:05] <troy_s> ScottL_: It's all pretty basic stuff, but I likely muddy it up with old habits.
[04:06] <troy_s> ScottL_: Bah. Rubbish. That's part of the whole point. The _average_ viewership is extremely adept at spotting westernized language.
[04:06] <troy_s> ScottL_: You may not know what Phi is, but the Renaissance was _SO_ huge that you can likely point to it on paper if I said 'where is it?'
[04:07] <troy_s> ScottL_: And _that_ is the point. It is a language. It has an implied audience. And it is used to communicate things to people. It certainly has new challenges for a culture that spans so many cultures. The whole 'ignore the audience like we are dealing with north america' is a different can of worms.
[04:07] <ScottL_> persia, I just hope the whole thing doesn't collapse upon itself in a pile from ennui
[04:08] <ScottL_> persia, I was talking to cory the other day and he mentioned that his opinion was that maybe studio should be packages added from PPA
[04:09] <ScottL_> troy_s, language is beautiful, i can not only appreciate its subtlety more as I age but I can please myself with my own subtlety more and more often
[04:10] <persia> ScottL_: I really don't see the point of using a PPA rather than the archives.  The main benefit of a PPA is that more people can upload, but with ArchiveReorg, if we get a few people who are good at uploading, we can grant them access to upload studio stuff in the main archives directly.
[04:10] <ScottL_> troy_s, and you are correct about the audience - too often people don't bridge that divide to unfamiliar audiences
[04:10] <persia> My worry about using a PPA is that it means that the rest of Ubuntu suffers.
[04:11]  * persia generally doesn't like PPAs because they don't foster collaboration
[04:11] <troy_s> ScottL_: Hrm. Do you worry about an audience outside of scope? I don't think we should. That's part of choosing an audience. God look at the fricking forum thread on the post.
[04:11] <troy_s> ScottL_: I was basically attacked for using language that I use.
[04:12] <troy_s> ScottL_: Which is fine, but the point one poster makes was "Well should he 'dumb down' the language so it translates better?"
[04:12] <troy_s> ScottL_: And then you get into words that don't translate at all. It's just a mess.
[04:12] <ScottL_> persia, his comment (i think) were driven by the kernel issue, the rigidity of the system stifles his desires at it were
[04:12] <troy_s> ScottL_: I resign myself to accepting I won't ever be able to read German comments without floundering through half baked translations at Google. So be it.
[04:12] <ScottL_> troy_s, or words that don't convey the correct meaning
[04:13] <troy_s> ScottL_: Tatazumai
[04:13] <ScottL_> troy_s, that's were I think language is beautiful, the choosing of the proper word
[04:13] <troy_s> ScottL_: Good luck figuring out what that one means.
[04:13] <persia> ScottL_: The rigidity of the system is an artifact of perception.  There's no reason we can't put anything we want in the main archive.  We haven't historically because nobody maintains it (including ourselves).  For a while, there was a "linux-rt" package in the archives, but it didn't get good updates.
[04:14] <ScottL_> troy_s, i was forced to find "otherling" on wikipedia
[04:14] <troy_s> ScottL_: That's a huge one.
[04:14] <troy_s> ScottL_: I always balked at it in fine arts school. But it just makes me aware as to how powerful it really is.
[04:15] <troy_s> ScottL_: We want inclusion, but you can't see the exclusion. You can assume it isn't there, but the means - the agency - might be so horribly broken that it can never be there.
[04:15] <persia> ScottL_: In more detail, the perception of the rigidity of the system stems from "us vs. them" thinking, rather than a holistic perception of the set of people contributing to the wider project.  There is no real hierarchy, nor any firm limits on what can be achieved.
[04:15] <troy_s> persia: Yer too fricking smart to really be around these parts.
[04:16]  * persia wishes humans were better at large-community thinking, but understands the biological impertivies inherent in the development of the limitations
[04:16] <persia> troy_s: I want to make the world a better place.  I think that having a free body of code that can be used for any purpose is part of that.  I think that Ubuntu has a better social model than Debian (when it works).  I don't know of a better place to try to achieve this (admittedly narrow) goal.
[04:17]  * ScottL_ thinks humans should read Jono's book then we would all thinking communitively
[04:17] <persia> Um, no.
[04:17] <persia> But it might help a little :)
[04:17] <ScottL_> i was kidding about that last bit
[04:17] <ScottL_> although I heard there was a drinking game involving his book, you drink everytime he wrote "community"
[04:19] <troy_s> ScottL_: Yeah. I'll pass on that Alex. ;)
[04:19] <ScottL_> troy_s, inclusion vs exclusion, yeah, i can see that
[04:19] <troy_s> ScottL_: It isn't easy to achieve inclusion.
[04:20] <troy_s> ScottL_: There is a fantastic vid at TED on things like that. You hope for freedom. But then you realize that a group of women formed a Bulimia support group to support people in their pursuit of Bulima and Anorexia. At some point, the absolutist belief in freedom butts into the reality of 'Wait a minute, that isn't healthy'
[04:21] <ScottL_> i like Jono though and am impressed not only by his taste in music but also that he published his book under CC
[04:22] <troy_s> ScottL_: And practically speaking, by failing to address an audience you are othering implicitly.
[04:23] <ScottL_> rereading persia's comment to troy_s - "I want to make the world a better place"
[04:23] <ScottL_> i can't really say explicitely why I am helping ubuntu studio, there are so many reasons but not a primary one
[04:24] <ScottL_> i'm geeky and I dig this stuff (I use AutoCAD at work and I still type most commands rather than pick a button or find the menu - translates well to CLI)
[04:24] <persia> Well, from a marketing perspective, the concept of audience definition typically inherently creates separation: they key is to always define audience positively, e.g. people who like cats and other people vs. people who don't dislike cats
[04:24] <troy_s> persia: Absolutely.
[04:25] <ScottL_> I like helping, I like organizing things, I like effecting
[04:25] <troy_s> persia: But the more worrying part is that by _avoiding_ to deal with the issue of audience, you create a half baked illusion that you aren't excluding. Which again, begs othering.
[04:25] <ScottL_> so basically what I'm saying is that this is all about me apparently
[04:25] <troy_s> ScottL_: LOL
[04:25] <persia> troy_s: Indeed.  Such is the power of propaganda.
[04:26]  * persia really likes propaganda, and studied it at uni some : it's an incredibly powerful tool
[04:26] <ScottL_> but I really dig the fact that these things are soo available to anyone (things = audio apps) and want to make sure that it continues
[04:26] <troy_s> persia: Personally, I am wondering that either you say 'OK this is bland because we are going to make it neutral for everyone" is better than sort of half baked attempts to add some sort of weak style to things (specifically talking about Lucid)
[04:26] <troy_s> persia: Just make the fricking thing middle grey and be done with it.
[04:26] <persia> Simply by failing to define the axioms of one's argument, one can draw a single conclusion that people believe to be correct even when they have different base axioms, simply because they assume you think as they do.
[04:27] <troy_s> ScottL_: That's where you can have a pretty interesting impact in a Lessig sense.
[04:27] <ScottL_> I've read quite a bit about WWII, Germany mainly, reading some Russian history now - now, that was some propoganda
[04:27] <troy_s> persia: Bingo.
[04:27] <persia> troy_s: I disagree.  I think the solution is to define the points of differentiation, create a template that allows both to coexist well, and encourage the strongest believers in each to help keep their model working.
[04:27] <troy_s> persia: I believe that was the whole fatal flaw with the original path - everyone took the meaning, warped it to their own reality, and then wondered why Ubuntu never actually outwardly showed what was in their heads.
[04:28] <persia> troy_s: That forces the apparently competing groups to cooperate.
[04:28] <ScottL_> troy_s, that's what I meant earlier - I don't know Lessig (but I'm happy to know about him now)
[04:28] <persia> The way that solution is implemented in Ubuntu is flavours.  Unfortunately, few are willing to put in the effort to make flavours work well.
[04:28] <troy_s> ScottL_: He's pretty damn clever. Watch his presentation at the Open Video Conference.
[04:29] <ScottL_> persia, in which way to they tend to fail?
[04:30] <ScottL_> Is Lessig the one that Jono was talking about?  I think he had a new book out, apparently Jono even follows him on twitter or facebook or whatever social media is fancy now
[04:30] <persia> ScottL_: Please rephrase the question.
[04:30] <troy_s> Side note, I need to figure out how to float the header far left so I can make it clickable
[04:30] <ScottL_> persia, how would more effort make flavours work well?
[04:30] <troy_s> It stinks not knowing how to do that.
[04:30] <troy_s> Gr.
[04:31] <ScottL_> persia, i realize that is a rather open ended question, pardon my ignorance
[04:31] <ScottL_> persia, you can certainly keep your response topical or bullet points
[04:32] <persia> ScottL_: Basically, it takes nearly as much effort to make any flavour work as any other.  Most sets of folks who don't like the defaults in Ubuntu Desktop don't put in the levels of effort put in by the Ubuntu Desktop folk to support their variation.
[04:33] <ScottL_> troy_s, yeah, Jono was reading "On Lessig" a while back (thanks Google)
[04:33] <persia> The Kubuntu Desktop/Netbook crew is a notable exception.
[04:34] <ScottL_> persia, that is what I thought you were saying
[04:35] <ScottL_> to be honest, I'm almost surprised that studio manages to stay an "official" derivative for the same reason
[04:36] <persia> This is *not* a derivative.
[04:36] <persia> It is a flavour.
[04:36] <persia> The distinction is incredibly important.
[04:36] <persia> A derivative adds or changes stuff shipped by default in an uncooperative way.
[04:36] <persia> A flavour interacts cooperatively with the rest of the larger project to help keep everything in good shape.
[04:37] <ScottL_> oh, like Linux Mint is a derivative then?
[04:37] <persia> So, for example, lots of people use the software Studio cares about without having installed Studio.
[04:37] <persia> That's the most popular one I know of, yes.
[04:38] <ScottL_> a good example of language and choosing the proper word ;)
[04:38] <ScottL_> which i didn't do
[04:42] <ScottL_> persia, troy_s, I enjoyed talking with you two but I need to go, goodnight (or goodnight as the case may be)
[04:43] <ScottL_> errrr (or good day)
[04:43] <troy_s> Adieu
[16:22] <ScottL> troy_s, are you around?
[17:19] <troy_s> ScottL: Here now. Sup?
[17:30]  * akirad is away: Sono occupato
[17:30] <ScottL> troy_s, you mentioned Phi last night and I completely missed it
[17:31] <ScottL> troy_s, the golden ration, it's also a math thing, use to determine Fibonnaci numbers
[17:31] <troy_s> ScottL: Yes. Most important value in Westernized aesthetic.
[17:31] <ScottL> s/ration/ratio
[17:31] <troy_s> ScottL: Yep. Leonardo Da Pisa's real discovery.
[17:32] <troy_s> ScottL: If you have to boil down say 700 years of *Westernized* art and design theory (Most of Euro in that) it boils down to that number.
[17:32] <ScottL> troy_s, i'm a structural designer (well, actually now department supervisor) and a freaking math geek so I'm down with weird things like Fibonnaci's numbers which lead me to Phi
[17:32] <troy_s> ScottL: Rule of Thirds is a rough approximation.
[17:33] <ScottL> troy_s, the human bodies porporitions reflect it too, The Last Supper painting, the famous Greek structures
[17:33] <troy_s> ScottL: Some try to see it everywhere, which it is not. But reality is that most of the Ren buried it into every picture - including aspect ratios of the pictures.
[17:33] <troy_s> ScottL: Ype.
[17:33] <troy_s> ScottL: Although the Greek is debatable.
[17:33] <troy_s> ScottL: Where do you draw your margin to see it. Random numbers are everywhere depending on how you divide the math up.
[17:34] <ScottL> troy_s, and Phi is also in nature, the conch shell, bees combs, pine cones...it's mad crazy
[17:35] <ScottL> troy_s, I might just try to make an Ubuntu Studio with Phi...i'll have to think about it
[17:36] <ScottL> troy_s, are you sure you don't have any design philosophy book you might recommend to a novice?
[17:42] <troy_s> ScottL: Erm. Not philosophy. Try Jim Krause's Design Basics Index.
[17:44] <troy_s> ScottL: Actually, this is likely what you are thinking perhaps... http://books.google.ca/books?id=fbRz8qQHbOwC&q=visual+literacy&dq=visual+literacy&cd=3
[17:44] <troy_s> ScottL: That one is very good.
[18:01] <ScottL> troy_s, yeah, that looks good...i'm extremely ignorant about graphic arts and have little to no talent for it, generally i'm a hack for most things
[18:05] <troy_s> ScottL: The latter is a good one because it sort of approaches it like school - it has some exercises etc. Much in the same vein as Andy Rutledge's 'quiz'.
[18:06] <troy_s> ScottL: You probably already saw it... http://www.andyrutledge.com/creativity-is-not-design-test-2.php
[18:52] <ScottL> hi fritz
[18:53] <FritzFido> Hi all, first time here - came to see what is going on after some e-mail discussions on studio-dev mailing list
[18:53] <ScottL> glad to see you here....it's a little slow right now, but hang around a while though
[18:53] <ScottL> hi akirad
[18:55] <FritzFido> Ok, I'll hang around
[18:57] <ScottL> if you have questions just ask, but please be prepared to possibly wait a bit (especially on weekends) as people aren't always actively watching the IRC channel, but usually you get an answer eventually
[19:00] <FritzFido> I sent a question to the mailing list earlier about when there are likely to be downloadable studio builds where one can test whether how well the integration of PA and jack works
[19:00] <FritzFido> I thought I might get an answer more directly here.
[19:08] <ScottL> FritzFido, when TheMuso gets back on line he might be the one to answer that
[19:09] <FritzFido> Scott, you were asking where to see the new theme - look here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand
[19:11] <FritzFido> I was just looking at the new ubuntu splash screen there and wondering if we couldn't keep it much the same - just change "ubunt" to "ubuntu studio" and put the studio logo in place of the small ubuntu logo
[19:23] <ScottL> FritzFido, the word ubuntu in that splash screen is a png image and apparently the font used is not completed yet :(
[19:26] <FritzFido> That's cheating!
[19:40] <ScottL> FritzFido, if someone were to have another design (or font suggestion) we would certainly welcome the input, if that "someone" were you or someone you know that would be even better
[21:09] <FritzFido> Cheers, I'm off now.


[14:55] <bcurtiswx> maco, would you be so kind to leave me a comment at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BCurtisWX/MOTUApplication ?
[14:59] <maco> bcurtiswx: have i sponsored anything for you?
[14:59] <bcurtiswx> nope, you've helped me learn packaging though
[14:59] <bcurtiswx> looking for comment not endorsement
[15:06] <maco> ok
[15:15] <bcurtiswx> muchas gracias


[00:02] <wrst> netritious_: mint is not my thing but you can have a running system in no time with it
[00:48] <netritious> wrst: it's an old laptop...i kind of expected issues
[01:00] <wrst> ahh
[01:01] <wrst> that can make a difference
[15:01] <wrst> good morning everyone
[15:27] <average_guy> Hello wrst, how's it going?
[15:30] <wrst> good average_guy, how about you?
[15:37] <average_guy> I am doing well, thanks.  Enjoying time my off of work,
[15:38] <average_guy> or something like that...
[15:40] <wrst> time off work is good
[17:24] <wrst> wb netritious
[17:26] <netritious> ty wrst
[17:27] <wrst> it was just a matter of seconds not the usual months, I thought it was worth noting netritious ;)
[17:27] <netritious> lol I deserve that
[17:27] <wrst> ha ha sorry :)
[18:24] <cyberanger> hey netritious
[18:24] <cyberanger> how's it going?
[19:32] <netritious> hey cyberanger it's going...how about yourself?
[19:33] <cyberanger> going all right, might be moving again
[19:34] <cyberanger> datacenter work would be a good reason
[19:34] <netritious> me too...depends on where cspire puts the fiber
[19:34] <Unit193> Oooooh, you give us discounts? ;)
[19:35] <cyberanger> idk if I'll have one for myself
[19:35] <cyberanger> hoping it might be an employee benifit
[19:36] <Unit193> Heh, kidding, but it'd be great for you to get in there!
[19:37] <cyberanger> netritious: you talking about rebuilding yours I presume?
[19:43] <netritious> cyberanger: maybe. Depends on if they give me statics or not
[19:44] <netritious> i mean, what /can't/ you do with 1GB fiber /with a static ip/...
[19:44] <netritious> within the bounds of TOS of course
[19:46] <cyberanger> move 2GB in a second
[19:46]  * cyberanger was spoiled with epb
[19:49] <netritious> *1Gbs not 1GB
[19:49] <netritious> ^^you see I'm ignoring you right cyberanger :D
[19:51] <cyberanger> yes, but now time warner is the local provider (preferred comcast business over them)
[19:51] <cyberanger> and I couldn't resist a speed joke
[19:51] <netritious> he he
[19:51] <cyberanger> but don't worry, the joke died faster than the iso I'm downloading
[22:26] <wrst> Unit193: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/11/debian-8-0-switches-xfce-default
[22:26] <wrst> oh and cyberanger ^ its not the terminal so you probably don't care :)
[22:58] <Unit193> Wonder if it'll stick this time.


[05:09] <byhacki> hai
[06:07] <nigel_nb> paultag: decided on a topic for user day?
[06:07] <paultag> nigel_nb, ERM....
[06:08] <paultag> nigel_nb, /me needs to think about it
[06:08] <nigel_nb> I got a suggestion for you
[06:08] <paultag> I love suggestions
[06:08] <nigel_nb> I've been picking my brain for ideas
[06:09] <nigel_nb> paultag: One good idea would be what *not* to with your ubuntu install (like not run unknown scripts as root, linux doesn't need viruses if u type out the wrong commands, dont modify your kernel.. that kind)
[06:09] <nigel_nb> its just something that hit me, needs work
[06:10] <paultag> Oh cool nigel_nb
[06:10] <paultag> good idea
[06:10] <nigel_nb> paultag: I'm sure you can play around with it make it big enough though nothing hits me right now ;)
[06:10] <paultag> nigel_nb, :)
[16:10] <nigel_nb> pleia2: will u be around this weekend?
[16:11] <pleia2> nigel_nb: should be
[16:11] <nigel_nb> k :)
[16:11] <pleia2> we're getting snow tomorrow, so I am going to hide indoors :)
[16:11] <ZachK_> heya pleia2
[16:11] <nigel_nb> ah
[16:12] <nigel_nb> i need to finish that how-to-contribute doc
[16:12] <pleia2> morning ZachK_
[16:12] <pleia2> nigel_nb: yeah :)
[17:15] <mgl22> hello someonoe can tell me if this file, ubuntu-8.04.1-alternate-amd64 works as cd live in a PII please
[17:26] <paultag> Sur--
[17:39] <nigel_nb> later everyone :)
[23:12] <nigel_nb> pleia2: been kicking around some ideas for ubuntu user day logo
[23:12] <pleia2> nigel_nb: great :)
[23:12] <nigel_nb> one was a big u with a u and d on top of it
[23:12] <nigel_nb> will show it you later it the day
[23:28] <pleia2> nigel_nb: great, I'm looking forward to it :)
[23:29] <nigel_nb> pleia2: I'm not a profressional ;) so check it out then :)
[23:30] <pleia2> every logo I've attempted looked like it was made by an 8 year old
[23:31] <nigel_nb> pleia2: same here :P
[23:31] <pleia2> hehe
[23:48] <FFEMTcJ|mobile> pleia2: Look at the schedule updates?
[23:56] <pleia2> looks great!
[23:56] <FFEMTcJ|mobile> Penny got jcastro for us!
[23:57] <FFEMTcJ|mobile> Hope she doesn't mind penny. Hehe


[00:45] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: good job? still in nashville?
[01:38] <Juzzy> any of you guys know any perl + php guys in nashville looking for ft employment?
[02:07] <vychune> o/
[02:07] <vychune> i'm homeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[02:08] <Unit193> Where were you? And welcoem back to the Tennessee LoCo!
[02:08] <vychune> creating web pages and laughing at steve harvey
[02:08] <vychune> and thank you lol
[02:09] <cyberanger> Juzzy: perhaps I know some willing to relocate, none off the top of my head already local & looking
[15:08] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: yes
[15:08] <pace_t_zulu> Juzzy: i was
[15:08] <pace_t_zulu> morning wrst
[15:10] <wrst> morning pace_t_zulu
[15:13] <Xpistos> What up all
[15:13] <Xpistos> wrst: Capo
[15:13] <Xpistos> pace_t_zulu:
[15:18] <pace_t_zulu> morning Xpistos
[15:38] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: wrst get a formal greeting and i don't ;)
[15:39] <Xpistos> We're Greek. We don't need to stand on formalities.
[15:39]  * Xpistos breaks some dishes and dances around his office listening to some bazuki music
[15:40]  * pace_t_zulu yells "opa" while throwing plates near Xpistos' feet
[15:44] <pace_t_zulu> perhaps breaking more plates was too much
[16:02]  * Xpistos gets out the broom
[16:52] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: glad to hear
[17:01] <Xpistos> Okay
[17:02] <Xpistos> Here is a loaded question. How can i take a spreadsheet and turn it into an online editable wishlist. So I can check off a checkbox (like boolean) when I get an item on the list?
[17:20] <cyberanger> yep, that is loaded
[17:20] <cyberanger> hammer looks cocked too
[17:21] <cyberanger> Xpistos: sorry, you'll need a webdev in that
[17:21] <cyberanger> that was a long time ago for me, I can still do some things, but uh, that's not it
[17:33] <wrst> Xpistos: or use a google doc :)
[17:34] <Xpistos> can't
[17:34] <Xpistos> google docs doesn't let you
[17:35] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: teuxdeux.com
[17:35] <pace_t_zulu> ?
[17:40] <wrst> hmm Xpistos thought you could do them in a spreadsheet
[17:40] <wrst> that's a very low-tech way anyway :)
[17:42] <Xpistos> Well I have a giant comics wishlist and I want to add a boolean checklist that shows if I have it or not without major hurdles
[22:46] <cyberanger> finally some of my stocks are making a comeback


[23:28] <zenof> why does the live system (I think at least from Focal on) create a writable partition on a usb pendrive when booted from it  _without_ asking me? from a so called live system I would expect not to modify anything unless I explicitly say so...
[23:30] <oerheks> zenof, how did you make the live iso on usb? only mkusb can do that standard.
[23:31] <oerheks> standard usb writer does not give an option for persistance, AFAIK
[23:34] <zenof> with: cat ubuntuimage.iso > /dev/sdX
[23:36] <zenof> the partition isn't created while cat'ing or dd'ing or what ever. but once the live system is booted. and yes, it is persistent. when I shut down the live ssystem, plug the usb pen drive in my other system, that partition shows up.
[23:44] <zenof> hmm... that additional the partition might be there already after I cloned the iso on it... about to check that...


[00:32] <dewman> is anyone here using a hybrid tuner?
[01:08] <dewman> what are scte channels ?
[01:51] <brybot> Hi all. I have got several questions. The first is the following: I have an HVR-1600 (which I may return) and I can tune and watch analog just fine on it. As I am aware, the 1600 has hardware encoding for analog. However, watching digital is choppy on both 2 and 2.8 GHz machines. Worse on the 2. I have read that tuning digital is easy because its an MPEG2 stream. Could it be that I am recording it just fine and those computers cannot su
[02:58] <tate> I have a mythtv installation that works just perfectly- except for some reason the volume starts on the low-end.  I raise it and periodically throughout watching a recording it will bring the volume level back to the initial low default.  Can I change this behavior?
[03:04] <dewman> tate, you might have better luck in #mythtv-users
[04:26] <brybot> I just tried enabling VDPAU Normal and Slim. Now when I try to watch tv or view a recording, I get a black screen and the computer becomes completely unresponsive. Any ideas? I have a GeForce 84xx
[04:40] <jst_> I really want to use mythbunturepos to update to the latest version of 0.22, but I'm scared this will create dependency hell with my NVIDIA drivers.  Any suggestions?
[04:40] <Zinn> jst_: Please watch your language.
[12:11] <Jay2k1> hello guys
[12:11] <Jay2k1> i experienced a weird problem
[12:11] <Jay2k1> my htpc refuses to transcode a certain recording
[12:11] <Jay2k1> backend log: http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/Um3R5dXs
[12:12] <Jay2k1> it has transcoded 10 to 15 recordings, without any problem
[12:12] <Jay2k1> only that specific one seems to differ somehow
[12:13] <Jay2k1> i've read that the error code 139 may point to a setting > 1 in "allow X simultaneous jobs", at least on AMD athlon64 X2 CPUs
[12:13] <Jay2k1> I have such a processor in the htpc, but that setting is 1
[12:13] <Jay2k1> also, all the other recordings were transcoded fine.
[13:42] <DaveQB> My EIT schedules are all out by an hour after the daylight saving going back to standard time on the weekend. How do I "reset" the EIT data?
[13:48] <DaveQB> It seems to resolve itself on Thursday. Could it be the EIT data sent over the air was wrng and only corrected in time for Thursday the 8th April? Can't the TV stations correct EIT instantly and myth pick it up pretty fast??
[14:15] <Thunderstorm> hi
[14:15] <Thunderstorm> is eyeTV 3 hybrid usable under linux?
[14:59] <tmkt> morning
[17:09] <saylinen> !help
[17:09] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[17:58] <tgm4883> !wolfie
[17:58] <Zinn> Come play 2 rounds of #wolfie and get assistance with your issue
[18:28] <rhpot1991> new feature: wolfie recruiting.  "you don't have enough wolfie credits to watch this recording yet"
[18:40] <Daviey> heh
[23:36] <jolaren> Is it possible to create a limit mythweb account? For my children that is
[23:40] <tgm4883> jolaren, I don't think so. IIRC i remember someone else asking that awhile ago in #mythtv-users
[23:40] <jolaren> I had my daughter usin the mythweb interferance
[23:41] <jolaren> One time.. and one time only
[23:47] <jolaren> If I have time later on I will take a look thro the source
[23:47] <jolaren> and see if perhaps it's possible to nerf it yourself


[00:53] <tomasino> haven't done a native one in awhile. i just use teamviewer
[01:19] <drailsky97> what is the advantage of using lubuntu
[01:23] <tomasino> for me today it was running a modern OS on a 9 year old macbook
[01:23] <tomasino> it's smooth as silk
[01:24] <drailsky97> how do I install steam
[01:24] <drailsky97> steam isnt working
[01:26] <agaida> and why is this an lubuntu problem?
[01:27] <drailsky97> because I'm using lubuntu
[01:27] <drailsky97> and I installed steam
[01:27] <drailsky97> but its not responding
[01:28] <drailsky97> its there on the start panel
[01:28] <drailsky97> but its not launching
[01:30] <drailsky97> Did I install it wrong?
[01:43] <drailsky97> I reinstalled steam but it's still not working
[01:43] <drailsky97> wait
[01:43] <drailsky97> it's updating now!
[01:56] <drailsky97> nothing happen
[01:56] <drailsky97> steam just update then installing then nothing happen
[01:57] <drailsky97> nothing happened
[02:02] <drailsky97> steam isn't launching
[02:03] <drailsky97> come on. can anybody help me?
[03:36] <Haneul> Hellow
[03:37] <Haneul> I have a desktop system with AMD Phenom and GeForce 6600
[03:37] <Haneul> would Lubuntu fit with this PC?
[03:38] <Haneul> Of course it will use legacy boot, not UEFI
[04:13] <Anti-Pizza> which browser is defult in lubuntu ?
[04:14] <Anti-Pizza> nvm
[04:14] <Anti-Pizza> it's FF
[04:20] <Anti-Pizza> which brwoser for an old PC / weak netbook you can recommend?
[05:45] <Anti-Pizza> wow ok Pale moon is fast
[08:21] <lub> Hello, guys! (A few days ago changed win7 to Lubuntu... My problem is: iphone5s can see my wifi hotspot from my laptop but cannot connect. When I set IP connection  manually (in iphone) my iphone is connected but with no internet access/no wifi logo. Please help : )
[08:25] <lub> Actually I'm not sure about ip, mask, and router I filled in iphone...
[13:10] <Andrew4> Hi everybody! I just about to install Lubuntu and behind die 'F6' Option there are serveral entries wile the last one "expert mode" caught my attention...can anyody plese explain what activating means (is it maybe for admin/root role managment) or not or even way more? Thank you very much in advance
[14:33] <dzho> Andrew4: it's less automated, relies on fewer default settings but rather prompts the person running the installation to make more decisions about the process.
[15:10] <Andrew4> Thanks a lot!
[15:12] <dzho> Andrew4: you're welcome.
[15:31] <Midnighthm> I'm a new linux user. I am trying to install lubuntu on an old xp. I got it to boot from an USB but now I have a screen that looks like DOS with a list of commands. I don't know where to go from here.
[15:32] <wxl> Midnighthm: you probably either have a corrupted download or a copy. you should check your hashes:
[15:32] <wxl> !md5
[15:36] <Midnighthm> Thanks I'll try that.
[18:29] <Guest24247> Lubuntu 17.10 is very hard to use, so so so much bugs... is anybody have the same?
[20:16] <rc> hola
[20:16] <Guest9659> estoy intentando instalar y se me queda pillado
[20:16] <Guest9659> por que puede ser


[10:17] <rmg51> Morning
[11:31] <JonathanD> mornign.
[13:00] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys, hamsters and everything else
[14:05] <ChinnoDog> morning
[14:59] <MutantTurkey> mornin turkeys
[14:59] <MutantTurkey> or dogs
[15:00] <MutantTurkey> I'm havin major trouble getting in to work _before_ 10
[15:02] <MutantTurkey> esp since school starts wed and i have to be up at 7 to bike to class
[15:10] <lazypower> Morning everyone
[15:55] <MutantTurkey> morn
[15:56] <MutantTurkey> hopefully my karma hits 4,000 before feburary
[18:03] <waltman> MutantTurkey: I think part of your problem today was not realizing it's a holiday. :)
[19:02] <MutantTurkey> waltman: it's a holiday set up by the government to give everyone the day off, but personally i am still working because i have stuff to finish.
[19:04] <MutantTurkey> weirdly virginia had a comibnation "Lee-Jackson-King day, which is kind of ironic, Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and the MLK jr
[19:04] <MutantTurkey> buncha crazy hicks!
[19:05] <penth> It was the only way they could get the MLK holiday approved when they took the vote. As opposed to Arizona, which refused to recognize it and then the governor vetoed the bill after it finally passed
[19:06] <penth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrFOb_f7ubw
[19:12] <MutantTurkey> nice
[19:15]  * waltman experiences the joy of dealing with a student with one of the best grades in the class whining about why he lost a few points on his labs.
[19:15]  * waltman backed up his TAs
[19:17] <penth> It's always the perfect ones...
[19:18] <waltman> The TAs docked him a few points for using his private instance variables directly instead of using accessor methods.
[19:18] <penth> I can deal with the ones who say "what was the bug there" or "how did I get that wrong" rather than just trying to claim the points back
[19:18] <waltman> he was like "the assignment didn't say to do this so why did I lost points?"
[19:19] <penth> Yeah, code hygiene is important in java . That's why I don't use it
[19:19] <waltman> and I was like "well, you were given 4 classes and asked to write a 5th, maybe you should've followed their model"
[19:24] <MutantTurkey> god I hate java.  Until go is ready for 1.0, java's the thing for ANdroid, not just the corporate world
[21:02] <waltman> penth: that off-by-one crap is particularly annoying in numpy, since otherwise it's quite similar to matlab (which is inclusive)
[21:03] <waltman> MutantTurkey: just because you don't use OOP doesn't mean it's not important :)
[21:03] <MutantTurkey> i think it is important, i do sometimes us it
[21:04] <waltman> in fact, if you make it out to West tonight you can see a fun thing I did with c++ classes :)
[21:04] <MutantTurkey> but i think there are more important things whnen people  are struggling to understand the very basics
[21:04] <MutantTurkey> tonight i wil be happily eating indian food in ambler
[21:04] <MutantTurkey> away from any C++ nonense
[21:06]  * waltman notes that all the money to be made in programming these days is in mobile app dev, which is nearly exclusively done in OOPy language (java and objc).