[12:35] <shale> anyone use xubuntu w/ ltsp v5 and rdesktop for thin clients?
[12:35] <cellofellow> Jester45: who needs advice?
[12:36] <cellofellow> shale: sounds fun, but no, not using that.
[12:36] <cellofellow> Sounds really specific. Linux thing clients connecting to Windows.
[12:36] <shale> correct
[12:36] <shale> i have it working with ubuntu-desktop but not so much with xubuntu-desktop
[12:37] <cellofellow> I think using just a plain window manager like fluxbox would work.
[12:38] <shale> yea me too
[12:38] <cellofellow> and, I think that there is even a framebuffer version of rdesktop
[12:38] <shale> i'm sorry, what does that mean... framebuffer?
[12:38] <shale> ver of rdesktop
[12:39] <cellofellow> framebuffer. graphics without X, in the Linux Console.
[12:39] <cellofellow> one sec
[12:39] <shale> sounds shnazzy
[12:40] <Sharn> Fluxbox is shnazzy too. =O
[12:41] <cellofellow> I have this chapter from an ebook on LTSP. I know it mentions redesktop and didn't include X.
[12:42] <cellofellow> still looking
[12:44] <cellofellow> not there, huh
[12:45] <cellofellow> will open on computer in just a minute
[12:45] <shale> well don't knock yourself on my account :)
[12:45] <cellofellow> no no no
[12:49] <cellofellow> ah,, here it is. in ltsp.conf, set SCREEN_NN = rdesktop -f hostname
[12:49] <cellofellow> NN is number
[12:50] <cellofellow> like, for example, you could have SCREEN_01 run a shell or getty for access to the thin client itself, SCREEN_02 use ssh or rsh to have shell access to the server, and SCREEN_03 could be startx for Linux server GUI, or rdesktop for Windows server GUI.
[12:51] <cellofellow> got that?
[12:51] <shale> roger that
[12:51] <cellofellow> too bad I don't have an RDP server, or I'd try that rdesktop thing.
[12:51] <cellofellow> I think -f means framebuffer.
[12:51] <Sharn> -totally lost-
[12:52] <cellofellow> Sharn: Linux Terminal Server Project, LTSP. It's a wrapper for lots of other services so you can make thin clients.
[12:52] <Sharn> Hmmmm. Ok. :P
[12:53] <cellofellow> I know! I can use VirtualBox as an RDP server, and then test the rdesktop -f thing.
[12:53] <Sharn> I'm not that interested, I'm just totally lost when it cmoes down to screens, graphics, terminals, etc in linux.
[12:53] <cellofellow> ah, well.
[12:53] <cellofellow> It is a little weird.
[12:54] <cellofellow> now, to get that shell-thing to work, there has to be a way to get SSH to authenticate with getty or something like that.
[12:54] <Sharn> Heh. Confusing t someone who's never really gone into it. Not a biggy though
[12:55] <cellofellow> yeah, all well and good. Even a pencil would be confusing to someone who'd never seen one before.
[12:58] <shale> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFAWR6hzZek
[12:59] <Sharn> -clicks link and hopes ff doesn't stall again-
[01:02] <Sharn> Hah. That's great
[01:03] <cellofellow> shale: I just tested. rdesktop needs X, and rdeskop -f isn't framebuffer, it's fullscreen.
[01:03] <shale> cellofello: gotcha
[01:08] <cellofellow> still, use the lightest window manager you can, maybe evilwm or ratpoison, and have it run rdesktop -f and you'll be in business.
[01:10] <cellofellow> ratpoison would be good. then no one can accidently do anything to it. It'll be invisible. Just configure its keystrokes to something really really weird.
[01:33] <az> does anyone know how to make an xfce4 theme?
[02:53] <Torahteen> Hey guys
[02:53] <eagle-101> hi
[02:54] <Torahteen> I'm trying to get my wireless working
[02:54] <Torahteen> I followed the steps in this tutorial: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=225206
[02:54] <eagle-101> ok, first off, what is your card?
[02:54] <Torahteen> it's a Linksys USB
[02:54] <Torahteen> WUSB54GS version 2.1
[02:54] <Torahteen> It all went fine
[02:55] <Torahteen> Until I got to where it tells me to plug in the device
[02:55] <Torahteen> He says:
[02:55] <Torahteen> Plug in your device. The Power light will come on, and, after at most 3 seconds, the Link light will blink slowly. If the Link light does blink slowly, sucess!
[02:55] <Torahteen> Mine doesn't blink, just stays lit
[02:56] <eagle-101> mmm
[02:56] <eagle-101> hang on a moment
[02:57] <eagle-101> ok Torahteen put the card in and type in the terminal 'iwconfig'
[02:57] <eagle-101> put that output in a pastebin
[02:57] <eagle-101> !pastebin | Torahteen
[02:57] <ubotu> Torahteen: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[02:58] <Torahteen> It's not this comp
[02:59] <Torahteen> And I know about pastebin :P
[02:59] <eagle-101> ok, then check the iwconfig and see if the computer sees the card
[02:59] <Torahteen> Umm
[02:59] <Torahteen> No
[02:59] <Torahteen> I have two cards
[02:59] <Torahteen> lo, and eth0
[02:59] <Torahteen> Both say no wireless extensions
[03:00] <eagle-101> ok if it works you will see a 3rd card
[03:00] <Torahteen> Hmm...
[03:00] <Torahteen> So it's not working?
[03:01] <Torahteen> Hmm... any idea what I might've done wrong?
[03:02] <eagle-101> Torahteen, not quite sure
[03:03] <Torahteen> :\
[03:06] <eagle-101> Torahteen, is there anything different on your computer from the one in the tutorial?
[03:07] <eagle-101> anything that was not set to the default when you started?
[03:07] <Torahteen> This was a completly new installation
[03:07] <eagle-101> also nose around for some other tutorials
[03:07] <eagle-101> are you sure the card is compatable with that?
[03:07] <eagle-101> to install mine it took no less then 3 tutorials
[03:07] <Torahteen> Well, I'm wondering if the drivers aren't right
[03:08] <Torahteen> It never mentions 2.1
[03:29] <Akuma_> whats the most used wireless network application in xubuntu?
[03:30] <test3r> iwconfig
[03:39] <Akuma_> and if i want something that manages profiles? is there anything equivalent to network-manager?
[03:49] <eagle-101> Akuma_, you can pick whatever you want to pick
[03:50] <eagle-101> if it works on any of the other *ubuntus then it works here
[03:51] <Akuma_> i'll get network-manager then
[03:51] <Akuma_> thanks
[03:56] <test3r> i actually have not found one that worked well as you describe in GUI fashion, but I suppose I have to try 'network-manager', now. I'll grab my laptop.
[03:57] <test3r> atheros+madwifi    <3
[05:22] <eagle-101> does bugzilla (the application bugzilla) have an IRC channel?
[06:26] <test3r> ok, yes, 'network-manager' seems quite nice, indeed.
[06:26] <test3r> at least with an outdated laptop, with madwifi drivers
[06:27] <test3r> which is rly the best setup u could get (and it just landed on me- im just thankful) to be able to test wifi things
[06:28] <test3r> it took some fooling around, but now it clicked itself to setup somehow, and now it is remembering my things and not asking me every 3 sec
[06:29] <test3r> combined with it's applet, it is Better than the windows wifi selection tool near the clock.
[06:31] <xubuntu> i can get images whilst playing video but am unable to get any sound from it...have tried with xfmedia and gxine...thanx
[06:31] <test3r> =O    =D   LoL!!!!  " Shott'd ."
[06:34] <test3r> even the "intel 8280" onboard soundchip works OOB from LiveCD- He probably just needs to spawn a volume control, switch it to the proper sound board, and change its volume.
[06:39] <xubuntu> i am unable to have sound whilst playing video on xfmedia or gxine...thanx
[06:39] <test3r> xubuntu > to fix your sound, try making a sound control
[06:39] <test3r> on the bar? at the top?
[06:39] <test3r> right click it
[06:40] <test3r> goto 'add new item'  and select the volume control option in the following menu
[06:40] <xubuntu> i have that...and it works when i play mp3
[06:40] <test3r> can gspot see what the file type of it is?
[06:40] <test3r> do u know what codec was used for making the file?
[06:40] <xubuntu> it's rmvb format
[06:41] <test3r> realmedia??????  id suggest gutting it with something to save it as MPG
[06:41] <test3r> that should play
[06:41] <test3r> or avi version 9
[06:41] <test3r> new AVI/WMV wont work
[06:41] <xubuntu> how do mean gutting it?
[06:42] <test3r> to convert a file type to another type
[06:43] <test3r> you could use 'RealAlternative' for the codec for the input
[06:43] <test3r> but then you'll need a program to save output too into a different format.  either that or find RealAlternative for linux
[06:43] <xubuntu> like k-lite codecs
[06:44] <xubuntu> but for linux
[06:48] <test3r> aaaaaaaaa hahahahah according to RealNetworks they say the codecs are illegal because of some junk but you know whats WAY worse than what those nice people that made those codecs did?
[06:48] <test3r> the fact that realplayer would not uninstall back when they were Created
[06:48] <test3r> and had other weird things operating in the background of My System
[06:49] <test3r> so u know what they can do with their oppinion?  =)
[06:50] <test3r> but yes, essentially it is a codec for a single file type. one thing they say in here time and time again though is that codec packs tend to hinder the upgrade process further down the road
[06:50] <xubuntu> ;)
[06:51] <test3r> its essentially like sony defending their rootkit
[06:51] <xubuntu> b4 i installed win32codecs i couldnt get anything at all...somehow this time only images worked
[06:51] <test3r> even though users were never given an option, nor told it would be installed
[06:53] <test3r> i have to admit - the only way ive done win32codecs so far is through @utomatics, but it has given people problems with their systems I hear
[06:53] <test3r> but there Should b instructions now on the Ubuntu forums of how to install all the codecs for all that
[06:54] <test3r> they are "new" to me
[06:54] <test3r> !codec
[06:54] <ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html - But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
[06:55] <test3r> =D
[06:57] <Sharn> That's... pleasant.
[06:57] <Sharn> Ugh. There's this noob on a different channel answering all my bots RS trivia questions
[07:00] <test3r> it kind of applies to the situation in a bizarre way- in the fact that you Want to take the ez route, but it's not best.
[07:00] <test3r> =O    ^ ^
[07:02] <xubuntu> test3r: cheers
[07:03] <xubuntu> i got win32codecs from medibuntu repository
[07:03] <test3r> from that help on the wiki???? nice.
[07:03] <Drew3b> Hey folks,  I have 6.06, and would like to update Firefox and Tbird,  Updating the distro is more than I want to do atm,  HOw do I specify FFx-2 and Tbird-2  instead of the 1.5.xx it now has?
[07:04] <xubuntu> errr..no from other unofficial site...cos at the beginning i didnt know for xubuntu is mousepad :-P
[07:04] <test3r> can you find the main firefox pack inside of Synaptic?
[07:05] <test3r> yeah for ubuntu its liek gedit or something but we use mousepad
[07:06] <test3r> mousepad is much more fast id imagine
[07:06] <Drew3b> test3r: in looking through synaptic, all I see is 1.5.xx
[07:06] <test3r> there are tools for writing C++ and PYTHON too
[07:06] <test3r> that run on gtk i believe
[07:07] <test3r> hmmmmmm....  6.06 has no stable "update" menu either
[07:12] <test3r> drew > Good Question, .....  and Firefox wont update itself like it does on the windows version?
[07:13] <test3r> thats my last idea. or you could do the old "apt-get install firefox" type thing but im not sure if that's what you want or not. it might brake stuff
[07:14] <Drew3b> I have a day or so to make this box ready for an 85 year old; maybe if there is no mistake free synaptic-apt-get way, I should leave it alone.   I have not tried the the package from moz...
[07:15] <test3r> is there a .deb?
[07:15] <test3r> if there is, the option is uninstal, double clikc the deb. its ez.
[07:15] <Drew3b> well, I was hoping someone here might know of a .deb
[07:16] <test3r> o is it only src from c?  you might have to /configure make make install
[07:16] <test3r> have u installed from source yet?
[07:17] <Drew3b> NOt on this box, it would take a week.  :-)
[07:19] <test3r> one program takes alot less time than a distro ( *cough*  bad GENTOO experiences *cough* )
[07:20] <test3r> ive compiled openGL-enabled DOOM engine clone for *NIX  from source and it took probably ~ 10min
[07:21] <Drew3b> THat is the problem with FOSS, one is never satisfied and wants the latest and greatest, if it was M$ I'd have-to-suffer :-/
[07:22] <Drew3b> and like it.
[07:25] <test3r> it's OK it's not like it won't be secure enough, already
[07:25] <test3r> install NoScript into it for her & it will beat the pants off of anything else
[07:26] <test3r> (and that will keep it from crashing on those (horribly coded) ASP pages)
[07:28] <Drew3b> I've used little but KDE for 3-4 years on a p4-512(Mandriva), this low memory P3 w/xunubtu-xfce is faster.
[07:28] <test3r> lol u should run fluxbox on that sucker   =9
[07:28] <test3r> on that p4
[07:30] <test3r> no movies or stuff tho easily using fluxbox though
[07:30] <test3r> if u still want ez installs for common things, nice multimedia etcetc stick with xubuntu
[07:33] <Drew3b> Gradually, I'm learning .deb-apt-get and synaptic and liking it.  After fixing a broken synaptic package(using apt-get -f or something like it), I was quite surprised at YouTube played so well.
[07:34] <test3r> Really? that's wild. I'll have to remember that one
[07:36] <test3r> South Park is on channel 17??????
[07:36] <test3r> that's weird. it's always been on comedy channel
[07:36] <Drew3b> It took a while to find, but  http://www.linux.com/articles/48910   helped a lot   "What to do when apt-get fails"
[07:48] <dd> hi
[07:54] <maxamillion> bye
[07:54] <test3r> l8rs man
[07:55] <maxamillion> test3r: no no, i was trying to be funny because dd said 'hi' and then left
[07:55] <maxamillion> i'm too busy coding right now to leave
[07:55] <test3r> o ya? what r u making?
[07:56] <test3r> r u still doing that 4 ur professor?
[07:56] <maxamillion> yeah, i'm writing a system shell right now
[07:56] <test3r> a Shell?  you're writing the thing that processes user commands.
[07:57] <test3r> how do u even go about that - what is the behind logic?
[07:57] <test3r> actually i wrote one for a JAVA-based text game that was supposed to react like a terminal
[07:58] <test3r> it was alot alot alot of filtering
[07:58] <test3r> basically
[07:58] <test3r> then it didnt work in the end   =(
[07:59] <test3r> is the shell for use in *NIX? or is it a shell with pre-processed system codes?
[08:33] <maxamillion> test3r: its a shell for nix, written in C
[08:34] <maxamillion> test3r: it doesn't do much right now and is rather buggy at the moment
[08:34] <maxamillion> test3r: it probably won't ever do a whole lot since its just for a class project and isn't required to do near as much as things like bash or zsh
[08:35] <maxamillion> anyhoo... i need sleep, i have work in 6 hours and i'm tired
[08:35] <maxamillion> laters
[10:56] <willow> hello
[12:53] <damike> which kernel will gusty use?
[12:53] <damike> in the final version - the latest?
[01:11] <Pumpernickel> 2.6.22
[01:13] <FFIXXX> hi i have lots of junk entries in my menu how do i remove them?
[04:25] <LiNuX_Fr3aK> So after installing xubuntu there are no updates. Whats wrong with this. Ubuntu ubudates are plentiful.
[04:31] <Balaams_Miracle> What in the world does "Latch to Lock" do (keyboard settings)? I've enabled it and noticed no difference in the bahaviour of the sticky keys...
[04:38] <TheSheep> Balaams_Miracle: that's for peple who have problems holding down two keys at a time
[04:38] <TheSheep> Balaams_Miracle: I think...
[04:39] <Balaams_Miracle> Then... What does the "disable two keys" thingamajig do?
[05:05] <sayers> Hello, Xubuntu won't let me choose 1280X1024 as a screen format. How would I fix that?
[05:07] <maxamillion> sayers: open a terminal window and type "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" and follow the guide and be sure to select the correct screen resolution and then restart X and it should be the "default" setting in the settings manager with all lower resolutions listed below the word "default" (xfce always defaults to the highest possible resolution)
[05:08] <sayers> possibly because I'm using the testing CD
[05:08] <maxamillion> sayers: could be
[05:12] <sayers> Thank you
[05:12] <sayers> Xubuntu looks great now
[05:12] <maxamillion> anytime, glad i could help
[05:12] <sayers> I've done that before in Debian but I didn't want to go configuring packages I wasn't sure about
[05:14] <maxamillion> yeah, actually pretty much anything debian can be applied to (x)ubuntu accept for small differences which then documentation can be found at http://wiki.ubuntu.com
[05:14] <maxamillion> ubuntu technically *is* debian accept modified (more so now than it used to be, but even still ... very debian-ish)
[05:15] <sayers> Yes
[05:15] <maxamillion> but don't say that around #debian ... they take offense to it ;)
[05:15] <sayers> I don't like Gnome or Kde, and Xubuntu is nice
[05:15] <maxamillion> i agree
[05:15] <sayers> well here we use free but not open source stuff
[05:15] <sayers> which offends them
[05:15] <maxamillion> i actually run gnome at work because i need to connect to a bunch of samba shares on the fly and nautilus does that rather well, but at home i run xfce on my desktop and laptop
[05:16] <sayers> Anyway how can i get my XFCE to look like it should , not like gnome
[05:16] <sayers> I have dual core and all the latest technology, I don't run XFCE for it's speed
[05:16] <maxamillion> sayers: right click the panel and there is a "properties" (or something similar) button, click that and then select panel 1, alter it .... and the same for panel 2
[05:17] <maxamillion> sayers: this is an _old_ screenshot, but my setup still looks the same: http://www.swooh.com/~adam/homeXubuntuEdgy.png
[05:17] <maxamillion> sayers: i don't like the gnome-look-alike thing either
[05:17] <maxamillion> vidd: hi hi
[05:17] <sayers> hm how do I set that up, your instructions don't work / make sense
[05:18] <sayers> customize pannel
[05:18] <maxamillion> sayers: just a moment
[05:18] <sayers> I got it
[05:18] <maxamillion> ok, cool
[05:19] <maxamillion> sorry ... i didn't really know how to explain it
[05:19] <sayers> Might be differnt on testing
[05:19] <sayers> but testing is always my cup of tea
[05:19] <maxamillion> fair enough
[05:19] <maxamillion> testing actually shouldn't be different in that respect because its been the same way to configure the panel since xfce 4.2
[05:20] <sayers> well testing has a lot more updates ;P
[05:20] <maxamillion> yup
[05:21] <maxamillion> sayers: you should run debian testing or sid ... those have constant "rolling updates" because their testing/unstable branch technically never release
[05:22] <sayers> I was on debian testing but installing flash on debian is /near/ impossible
[05:22] <sayers> for amd64
[05:22] <sayers> xfburn looks nice
[05:22] <sayers> do you have that on stable?
[05:23] <maxamillion> yeah, its useless
[05:23] <sayers> ?
[05:23] <maxamillion> doesn't burn music worth a darn, doesn't burn dvds and seg faults sometimes when burning iso images
[05:23] <sayers> Possibly fixed in update
[05:24] <maxamillion> interesting
[05:24] <maxamillion> brb
[05:32] <sayers> maxamillion, it cleared my DvdRW well
[07:09] <Amgine> I need to find a phrase in a source code folder. I know this should be able to be done by grep. How do I do so?
[07:16] <pleia2> grep -R "phrase here" foldername/
[07:17] <Amgine> Thanks!
[07:18] <cheeseboy> what mod to i ptobe to wake up hardrive?
[07:18] <cheeseboy> probe*
[07:18] <Jester45> you shouldnt have to
[07:19] <cheeseboy> well i need to
[07:19] <cheeseboy> it forgets the hardive
[07:19] <Jester45> maybe sudo hdparm -Tt /dev/hda
[07:19] <Jester45> that should get it going
[07:20] <cheeseboy> failed
[07:20] <cheeseboy> input/output error
[07:20] <Jester45> so.... linux forgot it was connected
[07:20] <cheeseboy> because its locked
[07:21] <|chueQo|> hello
[07:21] <cheeseboy> and i need linux to unlock it
[07:21] <Jester45> try sudo mount remount /dev/hda
[07:21] <|chueQo|> I ve got a quest
[07:21] <|chueQo|> who dares?
[07:21] <Jester45> !ask
[07:21] <ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[07:21] <|chueQo|> jajaja
[07:21] <|chueQo|> nice
[07:21] <cheeseboy> device does not exist
[07:21] <Jester45> cheeseboy, thats weird
[07:21] <|chueQo|> how do I make my own message.file for gfxgrub?
[07:22] <cheeseboy> when i boot it notices it
[07:22] <|chueQo|> how do I edit a message.file
[07:22] <cheeseboy> but gives errors about dma
[07:22] <|chueQo|> but changing the picture on it
[07:22] <Jester45> cheeseboy, is it in your fstab
[07:22] <cheeseboy> Jester45, its a live cd
[07:23] <Jester45> o...
[07:23] <|chueQo|> anyone?
[07:23] <Jester45> |chueQo|, have you tried nano message.file
[07:23] <|chueQo|> noup
[07:23] <|chueQo|> spanish?
[07:23] <|chueQo|> aaaaaaaah
[07:23] <|chueQo|> sorry I get it
[07:23] <|chueQo|> lts see
[07:24] <Jester45> ctrl+x to exit ctrl+o to save
[07:24] <Jester45> cheeseboy, sudo mount
[07:24] <|chueQo|> cant read it Jester45
[07:25] <|chueQo|> appears all those weird symbols
[07:25] <|chueQo|> how do people make message.files?
[07:25] <cheeseboy> Jester45, tried that /dev/hd* isnt listed
[07:25] <|chueQo|> has anyone did one?
[07:25] <Jester45> |chueQo|, run file message.file
[07:26] <Jester45> cheeseboy, sudo mount -t <filesystem> /dev/hd* /empty/directory
[07:27] <|chueQo|> how do I open it?
[07:27] <|chueQo|> double click goes to ark
[07:27] <Jester45> |chueQo|, what type did file say
[07:27] <|chueQo|> message.xubu
[07:27] <|chueQo|> or message.ubugrey
[07:28] <|chueQo|> is not a type
[07:28] <|chueQo|> is a theme for gfxgrub
[07:28] <cheeseboy> Jester45, i cant mount it its not there
[07:31] <|chueQo|> I ve got a hard one
[07:31] <|chueQo|> that sounded bad
[07:31] <|chueQo|> sorry my english is lame
[07:49] <cheeseboy> Jester45, any other ideas?
 maybe /dev/sd* ?
[07:57] <cheeseboy> nope none of those
[08:13] <dmdzine> xubuntu rocks
[08:21] <Jester45> ....
[08:21] <maxamillion> meh
[08:21] <maxamillion> atleast its was a positive randnom-ness
[08:54] <J-_> Is there a gui I can use to make cronjobs in xfce? /me doesn't like crontab -e
[08:54] <J-_> !cronjob
[08:54] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about cronjob - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[08:55] <J-_> I make a cronjob with xfce-terminal, save it, go back to crontab -e and it's not there.
[08:56] <J-_> any ideas?
[09:09] <miles> hey guys
[09:10] <miles> how do you connect to samba shares in xfce?
[09:10] <miles> i know how to, im just wondering what method you guys use
[09:15] <sayers> Dom
[09:16] <sayers> Don't use samba :( , try the ubuntu way though
[09:16] <miles> which is?
[09:16] <sayers> no clue but xfce is like gnome in a way
[09:17] <sayers> wiki.ubuntu.com
[09:17] <sayers> possibly
[09:17] <miles> u hate samba
[09:17] <sayers> me?
[09:18] <sayers> ive never used it
[09:18] <miles> o
[09:22] <infinito> hi!
[09:22] <FreeFull> Hi.
[09:23] <miles> hello
[09:23] <infinito> does anyone know why using kde apps on xubuntu i got strange symbols instead of  or  ?
[09:23] <miles> !bill gates
[09:23] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bill gates - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[09:24] <sayers> infinito, you don't have that letter package installed perhaps but that's as far as I can help
[09:24] <Redimere> !ubuntu
[09:24] <ubotu> Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com
[10:55] <Photocopy> ...
[10:55] <Photocopy> how do i install xfce themes to ubuntu?


[06:09] <nascentmind> Hi. When I use Inconsolata font in gedit or gvim the lines are very thin. Why does this happen? In my console the font is thicker and better.
[09:45] <rhode> Hi Guys
[09:48] <rhode> Im considering swithcing back to Xubuntu, however the LTS is still a few months off
[09:48] <rhode> If i install 19.10 now - will there be and easy upgrade path ?
[10:00] <well_laid_lawn> sure
[10:00] <gnrp> rhode: Yes, upgrade is as straight-forward as with Ubuntu, I'd say
[10:00] <well_laid_lawn> !upgrade
[10:00] <well_laid_lawn> ↑ has some info
[10:01] <rhode> Ahhh excellent
[10:01] <rhode> Then there is no reason to wait
[10:01] <well_laid_lawn> I don't think so
[10:02] <rhode> Was on 18.04 MATE for 1½ years, then shortly tested xubuntu 19.10 and Mint 19.3 (XFCE)
[10:03] <rhode> Definitely really like XFCE
[10:04] <rhode> But Mint have given me a few issues - not being able to run AppImages, their USB Writer thingy not detecting my usb keys, and now finally not being able to pass-through USB to VBOX
[10:04] <rhode> Didnt have those issues under native ubuntu's
[10:10] <rhode> Can I probe you guys for you opinions. Alot of Youtubers have made the claim that distro choice is less important these days, as they are to be viewed as essentially a starting-off-point, from where you customize.
[10:12] <rhode> And as long as the distro have a repo that is regularily updated, incl kernels - the rest dont matter. Especially in lue of the SNAP/AppImage/Flatpak closing the gaps in needing nevest SW
[10:12] <rhode> With exeptions of people with new++ HW, which needs absolutely newest kernels for support
[10:13] <rhode> Not trying to start a war here - actually interesting in other viewpoints on this
[10:28] <lighterowl> rhode: you can't really package a kernel into a snap/flatpak/appimage, so distro choice and the kernels it provides is still relevant in this area at least.
[10:28] <lighterowl> but I guess I couldn't say anything more than that. I run Arch at home, so I usually have the newest stuff already installed, and as such have never had the need to run any of these packaging solutions.
[10:29] <rhode> lighterowl: i know that the distro sort of have to deliver the kernel
[10:29] <rhode> ..if you dont build your own ;-)
[10:30] <lighterowl> well obviously, that's also an option.
[10:31] <rhode> It just most of the major distros "just works", some are lacking behind abit on the newest bleeding edge. But if you really need that, you can choose to stay on a LTS - and then just get SNAP's or similar for the newest SW
[10:31] <rhode> not knocking ARCH - have run it for some time
[10:31] <lighterowl> I guess so. I guess I've just never needed the bleeding edge when running Xubuntu - I use it at work.
[10:32]  * rhode is newer in newest HW - so older kernels are usually fine for me
[10:32] <rhode> Only place i have been where i wanted never was VBOX
[10:33] <rhode> And for that i could go an get it from the site
[10:33] <lighterowl> yes, Oracle provides their own .deb repositories that you can just hook up to your sources.list. I do just that in my Xubuntu installation.
[10:34] <rhode> Soooo the conclusion is - it really doesn't matter
[10:34] <rhode> All distros have their quirks you need to handle
[10:36] <lighterowl> that's a very universal truth. :)
[10:52] <rhode> Fortunately reinstalling linux is a 15 min job
[12:54] <jonzen> how do i turn off this obnoxious unattented upgrade
[12:55] <jonzen> perm
[12:56] <diogenes_> jonzen, you mean the update indicator?
[12:57] <jonzen> no
[12:57] <jonzen> rebooted   blue screen unnatended in progresss
[12:57] <jonzen> now i get a system srror every boot
[13:00] <diogenes_>  systemctl list-units | grep una
[13:01] <jonzen> ty
[13:02] <diogenes_> np
[13:02] <jonzen> any idea how to fix this system error detected at boot
[13:02] <jonzen> ill just reinstall
[13:03] <jonzen> thx
[16:55] <EdNV> experienced Windows OS user here, want to use Xubuntu. having trouble sharing with a windows machine on a private network, not suing workgroup in the windows network, any help?
[16:57] <diogenes_> EdNV, samba?
[16:57] <EdNV> Samba installed yes
[16:58] <diogenes_> you can also ask in #samba too.
[17:02] <EdNV> must register first?
[18:38] <lighterowl> "not suing workgroup"
[18:38] <lighterowl> dear god, I hope not!
[18:38] <lighterowl> ;)
[20:07] <xubuntu7w> How do I get an application to start at startup with admin privileges?
[20:08] <xubuntu7w> How do I change the startup network config?
[21:11] <lighterowl> xubuntu7w: depends on what kind of application it is. if you're trying to run a service, systemd uses the root account by default unless instructed otherwise (or unless the application itself drops the privileges). if you're looking into launching an elevated proces in a user session, try "sudo".
[22:58] <xubuntu7w> lighterowl Can I make it so it does not require me to input a password?


[10:12] <jellycat1> hiya, is it possible to run cloud-init with a test yaml-file that I'm debugging on the server? I have a file (test.yaml) that is under /root and I'd like to run it the same way a userdata-script would be ran.
[15:41] <blackboxsw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1769690
[15:42] <blackboxsw> unble to reproduce cloud-init clean reboot switch to NoCloud from ConfigDrive. may just be an Artful(unsupported by IBM images) thing
[15:43]  * blackboxsw heads to wrap up bionic SRU
[16:59] <paulmey> good morning! I was hoping we could get  https://code.launchpad.net/~paul-meyer/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/344538 to a state where it can be merged... LMK what you want me to do.
[17:05] <blackboxsw> paulmey: we can address this this week. rharper is out today (as he had  initial thoughts on this branch I'll defer to him).
[20:31] <paulmey> ok, I'll try to ping tomorrow morning then, but feel free to remind him. :-) Thanks!
[21:19] <blackboxsw> hrm just ran into this on bionic https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1769754
[21:19] <blackboxsw> can't reproduce it across clean reboots, but just fresh installs.
[21:20] <blackboxsw> it was affecting our clean intregration test runs on bionic
[21:20] <blackboxsw> https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/job/cloud-init-integration-proposed-b/8/consoleFull
[21:21] <blackboxsw> cloud-init in that case claimed to have written the pub/priv keys into /etc/salt/pki/* but the directory has a modification timestamp later than when the write took place (and the files are no longer there()
[21:47] <jocha> Hi,
[21:51] <jocha> oops, accidentally sent that, pls ignore :)


[01:53] <thierry> ogra, ajmitch : could you review my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1265 ... it's a dependency foir a package in universe candidates...
[02:01] <ajmitch> thierry: have you read the library packaging guide?
[02:01] <chillywilly> hi
[02:02] <ajmitch> the package is missing some important bits (shlibs)
[02:02] <thierry> ajmitch : where?
[02:02] <ajmitch> google for debian library packaging guide
[02:02] <ajmitch> hi chillywilly
[02:02] <ajmitch> the shlibs bit is needed for the proper library dependencies in debian
[02:03] <ajmitch> so that someone compiling with libfxscintilla1.6-dev will get the right dependency on ibfxscintilla1.6
[02:03] <ajmitch> you often don't need the version in the -dev package name either
[02:03] <ajmitch> that guide will tell you a bit more about it
[02:04] <ajmitch> thierry: another important thing is that you're not installing the library at all :)
[02:05] <ajmitch> build log, etc, are up at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1265
[02:11] <jsgotangco> later ajmitch
[02:11] <jsgotangco> have a good lunch :)
[02:34] <Kyral> Does postinst get called during dpkg-reconfigure?
[02:34] <crimsun> yes.
[03:22] <Kyral> I just got called the most interesting thing
[03:22] <Kyral> "motu-slave"
[05:04] <bmonty> Kyral: motu-slave...who called you that?
[05:22] <lamont> libwarped0-dev Depends: mpich, which doesn't exist in dapper (package changed names)...
[10:04] <minghua> launchpad's email interface is pretty cool
[10:05] <zakame> heya minghua :D
[10:05] <zakame> rocking indeed
[10:06] <minghua> hi zakame
[10:06] <minghua> it has been a quiet day here
[10:08] <jsgotangco> yeah
[10:42] <siretart> morning
[10:44] <zakame> evening
[11:00] <dholbach> hello motu folks! :)
[11:24] <Pupeno> [OT]  Is Linux on Dapper compiled for real-time scheduling ?
[11:27] <\sh> moins
[11:51] <siretart> Pupeno: there is no real time scheduling for linux at all, because linux is no realtime operating system
[11:51] <siretart> hi \sh
[11:51] <\sh> moins siretart
[11:52] <Pupeno> siretart: ok, s/realtime/whatever was the name of the scheduler added on 2.6.13 that provided low lattency/
[11:55] <siretart> Pupeno: so you are talking about the low latency patches..
[11:55] <Pupeno> siretart: kinda, AFAIK, since 2.6.13 they are no longer patches but different schedulers that you can choose at compile time (well, at make config time).
[11:56] <siretart> Pupeno: I think the default 'desktop' flavor of the kernel will have lowlatency enabled in the config. but I cannot check this, as I don't have a dapper system on fron of me
[11:56] <siretart> Pupeno: so you could probably have a look at the build logs of the kernels
[11:56] <siretart> the complete kernel config is dumped on stdout, afair
[12:01] <Gloubiboulga> hi
[12:02] <JohnnyMast> hey Gloubiboulga how is you package going ?
[12:02] <Gloubiboulga> hi JohnnyMast
[12:03] <Gloubiboulga> He's waiting for a MOTU on REVU :)
[12:03] <JohnnyMast> i hope your package gets uploaded
[12:03] <Gloubiboulga> what about yours JohnnyMast ?
[12:03] <JohnnyMast> my 2nd isnt checked yet
[12:04] <JohnnyMast> my first will be aproofed today/tomorrow
[12:09] <Gloubiboulga> JohnnyMast, the first one is ttb, right ?
[12:09] <JohnnyMast> yes
[12:11] <azeem> lifeless: opensync got NEW'd?
[12:12] <lifeless> azeem: yeah, bounced
[12:12] <azeem> oh
[12:12] <azeem> reason?
[12:12] <lifeless> azeem: I have to resubmit after checking *every* source file
[12:12] <azeem> wtf
[12:12] <lifeless> bastards have both GPL and LGPL licenced files
[12:13] <lifeless> I don't know what other surprises are lurking.
[12:13] <azeem> are we supposed to split up the packages along their licensing?
[12:13] <azeem> or just document?
[12:13] <azeem> the latter seems rather ugh unless there are other licenses involved as well
[12:14] <lifeless> just document
[12:14] <lifeless> the 'formats' are GPL
[12:14] <lifeless> the 'engine' is LGPL
[12:14] <lifeless> for some rather unguessable reason
[12:15] <azeem> maybe upstream didn't realize?
[12:17] <JohnnyMast> how do you mean ... to pack ?
[12:17] <lifeless> azeem: /COPYING is LGPL
[12:17] <lifeless> azeem: not sure how they can *not* realise
[12:18] <JohnnyMast> StevenK ??
[12:18] <StevenK> JohnnyMast: Huh?
 how do you mean ... to pack ?
[12:19] <StevenK> I don't understand your question.
[12:19] <JohnnyMast> you asked something
[12:19] <JohnnyMast> * StevenK wonders if he can bug someone to upload a large package.
[12:20] <azeem> lifeless: well, yeah.  I initially thought maybe those utils are GPL and have contributed by somebody else who just copy&pasted license boilerplate
[12:20] <azeem> +been
[12:20] <lifeless> azeem: nah, they are key components
[12:20] <lifeless> its useless without the formats
[12:21] <dholbach> ajmitch, slomo_, tseng: new beagle crack :-)
[12:21] <azeem> lifeless: sounds like an upstream bug then
[12:21] <lifeless> azeem: ftp-master indicated doco was sufficient
[12:22] <azeem> not one I care about too much, but maybe they should, depending on their motivation to use the LGPL
[12:22] <lifeless> yah
[12:22] <lifeless> I'll mail the list
[12:23] <tseng> dholbach: yes well
[12:24] <tseng> dholbach: we have to go through debian again, it needs repackaging
[12:24] <dholbach> good luck with that! :)
[12:24] <tseng> thanks
[12:43] <StevenK> dholbach: Can I bug you to upload a package? :-)
[12:43] <dholbach> if it's not 80Mb or something, sure ;)
[12:43] <dholbach> the dsl line at my parents place is soooooo boringly slow
[12:44] <StevenK> dholbach: It's 26ish
[12:45] <dholbach> mb?
[12:45] <StevenK> Yup.
[12:45] <dholbach> yeah, i can do it, i'll upload it to another host over lunch
[12:46] <dholbach> which one is it?
[12:46] <StevenK> Okay, great. Grab xemacs21-packages 2005.12.08-1, and I have a 2Kb diff for it.
[12:46] <dholbach> cool
[12:48] <dholbach> StevenK: do you have the link somewhere?
[12:50] <StevenK> To the diff? Sure. http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/xemacs21-packages_2005.12.08-1ubuntu1.debdiff
[12:51] <dholbach> ah ok, don't need no full upload *phew*
[12:52] <StevenK> No. The source is already in the archive. :-)
[12:52] <StevenK> Just a smallish diff and a dsc
[12:53] <dholbach> yeah, looks good
[12:55] <dholbach> StevenK: done, "Thanks for your contribution to Ubuntu." :-)
[12:57] <StevenK> dholbach: Thanks!
[03:31] <zakame> evening all
[05:58] <JohnnyMast> good afternoon ppl
[05:59] <jpatrick> JohnnyMast: evening
[06:20] <JohnnyMast> slomo ?
[06:20] <slomo> JohnnyMast: hi :)
[06:21] <JohnnyMast> you have been talking to Moritz about the ttb package right ?
[06:24] <JohnnyMast> slomo he made his vote already
[06:24] <siretart> n'evening
[06:24] <slomo> yes... i'll take a look later tonight when you give me the url now :)
[06:25] <JohnnyMast> slomo, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1275
[06:26] <slomo> siretart: i've finally started the media pages *sigh* i hope i finish them later tonight or tomorrow... i've to visit a friend in ~30 minutes...
[06:26] <siretart> slomo: ah, ok. have fun!
[06:26] <JohnnyMast> slomo are you also german ?
[06:26] <siretart> slomo: have you heared about new upstream of lame? they seem to have renamed liblame to libmp3lame0
[06:26] <siretart> and are providing the old package
[06:29] <slomo> siretart: huh? url please :)
[06:29] <slomo> siretart: but i don't like the change... i've uploaded a NEW package dependending on liblame-dev only a few hours ago ;)
[06:29] <slomo> JohnnyMast: yes
[06:29] <siretart> slomo: http://lame.sourceforge.net/download/src/lame3.89beta.tar.gz seems to be the latest release, from aug 05
[06:29] <siretart> sorry, sep 05
[06:29] <JohnnyMast> i see the link now
[06:29] <slomo> siretart: "Latest LAME release : v3.96.1 July 2004"
[06:30] <siretart> thats what you see on the main page
[06:30] <siretart> now proceed to the download page on sf.net
[06:30] <slomo> siretart: 3.89beta is centuries old
[06:31] <slomo> siretart: "lame3.89beta.tar.gz     14-Sep-2001"
[06:31] <slomo> hmm
[06:31] <siretart> mom
[06:31] <siretart> that wasn't the right one
[06:31] <siretart> lame-3.97b2.tar.gz
[06:31] <siretart> thats the version I'm talking about
[06:31] <siretart> I downloaded it from sf.net
[06:32] <siretart> http://switch.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/lame/lame-3.97b2.tar.gz for a direct link
[06:32] <slomo> oh ok... but it's a beta, let's wait for the real thing
[06:32] <siretart> I'm a bit concerned that they seem to have renamed the lib, I fear they broke ABI compatibility, so we would have to rebuild all reverse depends
[06:33] <slomo> i guess the rename was only for cosmetical reasons :) but we have to rebuild everything anyway because of the new name
[06:34] <slomo> they haven't broken ABI and API since 3.91 iirc
[06:34] <siretart> they still provide the old package name
[06:35] <slomo> "package name"?
[06:35] <siretart> wait
[06:35] <siretart> Provides: liblame0
[06:36] <slomo> oh lol
[06:36] <slomo> liblame0 was the wrong name anyway...
[06:36] <siretart> I don't want you to miss your rendevouz ;)
[06:37] <slomo> it contains "/usr/lib/libmp3lame.so.0"
[06:37] <siretart> ah, interesting..
[06:37] <siretart> ok, I'll continue merging then
[06:37] <slomo> so probably nothing to worry about... but feel free to do the needed changes and rebuild everything against the new one :)
[06:37] <siretart> I'll svn-inject it in our repo then, okay?
[06:38] <slomo> hm no... i thought of doing the changes to our 3.96.1 package
[06:38] <slomo> we definitely don't want a lame beta... sometimes they produce weird mp3s :)
[06:39] <siretart> oh
[06:39] <siretart> then good that I asked you in advance ;)
[06:39] <slomo> but before that we should take a look at ABI compatibility
[06:39] <siretart> (I didn't want to upload it anyway that quickly)
[06:39] <slomo> hehe
[06:39] <siretart> well, anyway, I have more important stuff to do anyway
[06:40] <slomo> hm, i'll write it on my todo list and leave now :)
[06:40] <slomo> bbl
[06:40] <siretart> slomo: have fun *wave*
[06:41] <JohnnyMast> :)
[07:59] <thesaltydog> is malone now for all bugs, or still just for universe?
[08:03] <Kyral> hmmm
[08:05] <Kyral> I wonder how hard it would be to add an option to upload to Facebook
[09:20] <sistpoty> hi folks
[09:21] <jpatrick> lo sistpoty
[09:37] <siretart> hi sistpoty
[09:38] <sistpoty> huhu siretart
[09:57] <rikai> evening, all.
[09:59] <JohnnyMast> evening rikai
[09:59] <sistpoty> siretart: can I use dcut to undo a bogus upload?
[10:00] <siretart> sistpoty: on revu not, on ubuntu archive, I think so
[10:00] <sistpoty> siretart: on ubuntu archive... I need to undo vice upload :(
[10:01] <siretart> sistpoty: (problem from kathrin): is it possible that an 1:n relationship in an ER diagram has attributes? (or is this possible just for n:m relationships)?
[10:02] <sistpoty> hm... *think*
[10:03] <dholbach> siretart: i think it's possible, although i'd always design it in a different way :)
[10:03] <siretart> dholbach: me too, I'd don't allow it, but her boss thinks that is a good idea (I don't!)
[10:04] <dholbach> time to take away his crack pipe ;)
[10:04] <sistpoty> siretart: possible... at least this was the solution for one sp2 exercise
[10:04] <siretart> sistpoty: ok, so this is 'just' a problem when mapping the ER to tables, right?
[10:05] <dholbach> yeah, that's when the actual work starts ;)
[10:05] <sistpoty> siretart: shouldn't be actually
[10:05] <sistpoty> siretart: iirc it would be mapped as if it were part of the 1-relation
[10:06] <siretart> not a hard problem, but in 1:n relationships, you don't introduce extra tables, (as opposed to n:m relationships)
[10:06] <siretart> sistpoty: right. ok thank you
[10:07] <sistpoty> siretart: np... but I'm not quite clear about the difference between attributed relation and extra attribute of entity right now
[10:07] <sistpoty> I guess it's just a matter of viewpoint :)
[10:08] <sistpoty> damn... /me doesn't find an example for dcut :(
[10:10] <siretart> sistpoty: < silvester> thank you very much :)
[10:10] <sistpoty> siretart: np silvester ;)
[10:10] <dholbach> sistpoty: http://ftp.up.ac.za/debian/UploadQueue/README
[10:11] <siretart> http://ftp.up.ac.za/debian/UploadQueue/README
[10:11] <siretart> oh, dholbach was faster
[10:11] <dholbach> :-D
[10:11] <siretart> ;)
[10:11] <dholbach> YAY! I win a prize!
[10:11] <dholbach> :-p
[10:11] <sistpoty> dholbach: thx
[10:12] <dholbach> it was mentioned in the manpage
[10:12] <sistpoty> gna... too late. katie was fastest :/
[10:13] <sistpoty> thx Loiosh
[10:13] <dholbach> sistpoty: what did you do?
[10:14] <sistpoty> dholbach: resolving build-dependency libxpm4-dev to libxpm-dev... but libxpm4-dev is a virtual package from libxaw6/7-dev, so s.th. completely different
[10:14] <sistpoty> strange enough that it did build
[10:14] <Moxie> think anyone could help me out?
[10:14] <sistpoty> maybe 3 hours of sleep just aren't enough
[10:15] <sistpoty> what's your problem, Moxie?
[10:15] <Moxie> im trying to figure out the yaboot
[10:15] <Moxie> i can install both mac tiger and ubuntu....
[10:15] <siretart> well, just upload a fixed package afterwards
[10:15] <siretart> with a bit of luck, it will get faster than the buildds can fetch them
[10:15] <Moxie> then when i get to the yaboot screen when i first turn my ibook on, it wont load into mac
[10:16] <Moxie> i can type x then nothing happens
[10:16] <Moxie> but it will load into ubuntu
[10:16] <Moxie> i cannot figure it out for the life of me
[10:16] <sistpoty> Moxie: sorry, I don't have the slightest clue bout yaboot
[10:16] <Moxie> thanks anyways
[10:16] <sistpoty> siretart: I already cleaned my /tmp where the "fix" resided
[10:17] <siretart> :(
[10:18] <sistpoty> at least this will have a funny changelog then... as in "lalala... the last upload never happened"
[10:21] <dholbach> the motureviewers team now has an emblem :)
[10:22] <Loiosh> Woo!
[10:23] <Hieronymus> dholbach: now you still need a homepage
[10:25] <Hieronymus> dholbach: the name sounds as if the team reviews .debdiffs, and you're supposed to assing patches with .debdiffs to them. Is that so? If it is, please put that in its homepage
[10:25] <dholbach> but yeah, that's one of their purposes
[10:28] <dholbach> the motu thing is a bit hard
[10:30] <dholbach> Hieronymus: done
[10:34] <jpatrick> Someone care to look at: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1277 ?
[10:43] <jpatrick> dholbach: I think I've made a small error with the debhelper verison
[10:44] <jpatrick> should be (>= 5.0.0)
[10:44] <dholbach> is it strictly required?
[10:44] <jpatrick> Not sure...
[10:45] <jpatrick> but compat's 5
[10:45] <dholbach> i shouldn't think so
[10:45] <dholbach> if we divert from debian, we should do the necessary stuff, but anyways, i'm generall fine with it
[10:46] <jpatrick> should I leave it as it is?
[10:46] <dholbach> i approved it
[10:46] <dholbach> but i'd be happy if somebody else could sponsor the upload
[10:47] <elektranox> what's the right name of the section for games?
[10:47] <dholbach> because the connection at my parents places it boringly slow
[10:47] <dholbach> games?
[10:47] <JohnnyMast> from the nitpicky department:
[10:47] <JohnnyMast> hahahahahaahaha
[10:47] <JohnnyMast> :p
[10:47] <elektranox> in synaptic there are this sections
[10:47] <elektranox> and the packages are sorted to them
[10:47] <dholbach> jpatrick: i made a note
[10:47] <dholbach> elektranox: yeah, that's set in debian/control
[10:48] <elektranox> yes
[10:48] <elektranox> but what's the section name for the games
[10:48] <dholbach> games?
[10:48] <dholbach> i suppose it's 'games'
[10:48] <elektranox> Synaptic shows me only the german Section titles :P
[10:48] <jpatrick> dholbach: I think I'll poke Riddell
[10:49] <dholbach> jpatrick: when i'm back at my place, i'll sponsor the biggest crack you have, but just not here ;)
[10:49] <dholbach> Riddell: if you upload lmms, i checked it's definitely the upstream source and the changes to the debian/ dir make sense as well
[10:51] <sistpoty> dholbach, jpatrick: I'll try building it and will upload it then
[10:52] <Hieronymus> elektranox: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
[10:52] <Hieronymus> "The Debian archive maintainers provide the authoritative list of subsections. At present, they are: admin, base, comm, contrib, devel, doc, editors, electronics, embedded, games, gnome, graphics, hamradio, interpreters, kde, libs, libdevel, mail, math, misc, net, news, non-US, non-free, oldlibs, otherosfs, perl, python, science, shells, sound, tex, text, utils, web, x11."
[10:53] <jpatrick> sistpoty: cheers
[10:53] <elektranox> ok
[10:54] <elektranox> I've got a second question:
[10:54] <elektranox> How are the man pages created? Can I copy <projectname.gz> to /usr/share/man/man1/ and it will be there?
[10:55] <JohnnyMast> better use docbook2x templates
[10:55] <JohnnyMast> and edit them
[10:55] <dholbach> yeah
[10:55] <dholbach> you get them via dh_make
[10:55] <JohnnyMast> elektranox let me give you a template of my package
[10:55] <elektranox> ok
[10:55] <JohnnyMast> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ttb-0512220710/ttb-0.9.4/debian/ttb.1.docbook
[10:56] <JohnnyMast> dont forget to add docbook2x to your build deps
[10:56] <JohnnyMast> and in your rules file at the build section add
[10:56] <JohnnyMast> docbook2x-man debian/<docbook file name>
[10:57] <JohnnyMast> ule be fine :)
[10:58] <TheMuso> Merry Christmas to you. Hope you have an enjoyable Christmas where ever
[10:58] <TheMuso> you are.
[10:58] <elektranox> is any special versionen needed, or can I leave this part?
[10:58] <JohnnyMast> nope just depend on docbook2x
[10:58] <JohnnyMast> thats the package name dockbook2x
[10:59] <JohnnyMast> its not like python where you have python and python2.4 for example .... dockbook2x will be okey
[10:59] <dholbach> good night everybody
[10:59] <JohnnyMast> TheMuso mary christmass buddy
[10:59] <JohnnyMast> dholbach sleep well
[10:59] <crimsun_> night daniel
[11:00] <JohnnyMast> elektranox do you use pbuilder already ?
[11:00] <crimsun_> dholbach: thanks for #19668 :)
[11:01] <sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
[11:01] <elektranox> yes
[11:01] <elektranox> I use
[11:01] <elektranox> it
[11:01] <dholbach> crimsun_: yeah - i guess that made some people quite happy
[11:01] <JohnnyMast> elektranox very good
[11:02] <dholbach> sleep tight guys
[11:02] <dholbach> *wave*
[11:02] <crimsun_> dholbach: myself in particular, since gnometris is practically the only game I can play on this laptop that lacks hardware 3D accel ;)
[11:02] <JohnnyMast> gn8 daniel
[11:02] <JohnnyMast> 2l8
[11:02] <crimsun_> eh he knows.
[11:03] <JohnnyMast> crimsun_ who ?
[11:04] <crimsun_> daniel
[11:05] <JohnnyMast> oooh :)
[11:05] <JohnnyMast> elektranox if you need any help and no ppl are responding contact me<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(msn)
[11:26] <Kyral> hmm
[11:26] <Kyral> what transition is going on that removes VLC?
[11:27] <crimsun_> I haven't transitioned it to the new dbus.
[11:27] <Kyral> ah
[11:27] <Kyral> ty
[11:27] <crimsun_> it's on my list of TODOs for tonight.
[11:27] <Kyral> this is why I keep Xine as a backup :D
[11:28] <Kyral> thanks for lettin' me know crimsun_
[11:28] <crimsun_> meh, I'll just kick it now so people don't grumble too much ;)
[11:28] <Kyral> lol
[11:28] <Kyral> should I stop my dist upghrade them :P
[11:28] <crimsun_> not necessarily
[11:29] <crimsun_> it's not _that_ crucial ;)
[11:29] <Kyral> well I'm lazy so I won't want to reinstall VLC ;P
[11:29] <Kyral> I'll update later on
[11:40] <crimsun_> Blah, I'll just revert the b-d to mozilla-dev because firefox still ftbfs on amd64.
[11:55] <sistpoty> ping desrt


[01:45] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/085j0m1tlkvurut/VID_20140713_024222.mp4
[01:45] <daftykins> my cat vs. my cycling gloves
[07:15] <mapps> hello all
[08:03] <mapps> another miserable day
[09:34] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls
[09:35] <SuperEngineer> o/
[09:36] <brobostigon> morning SuperEngineer
[09:39] <popey> yo
[09:39] <SuperEngineer> successfully back on line after a full reinstall
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[09:40] <SuperEngineer> - love the installer's ability to let me say "don't you dare touch my home partition"
[09:41] <brobostigon> morning popey and MartijnVdS
[09:41] <brobostigon> :)
[09:42] <SuperEngineer> [only fail is web apps - any webapp now istantly locks the whole system] REISUB stylie!
[09:43] <SuperEngineer> but who needs web apps anyway - much better security using firefox direct
[09:43] <SuperEngineer> [& less ads ;)  ]
[11:28] <SuperEngineer> yikes! kitchen window view - bright;  window by the desktop view - very dark... run for for the hills!
[11:32] <daftykins> d'aww
[11:33] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n3zinsv76wi7vny/AACaYuuzUDTPut0RObL7j3mqa
[11:33] <daftykins> i was over on one of the neighbouring islands for a wedding yesterday
[11:48] <penguin42> ohoh the Martians got SuperEngineer
[11:49] <daftykins> :D
[17:37] <DJones> Doctor Who fans...https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/488374857386979328  Keep your eyes on @BBCOne tonight… #HalfTime #GermanyvsArgentina #DoctorWho
[17:42] <diddledan_> yeah. that's not going to happen.
[17:42] <diddledan_> because. football
[23:18] <mapps> hey all
[23:19] <daftykins> heyup how's it going?


[00:59] <grantbow> anyone else use link checkers? http://www.berkeleylug.com/?p=1583
[00:59] <darthrobot`> Title: [Berkeley Linux Users Group » Blog Archive » LinkChecker]
[02:28] <Roguehorse> nope, might fiddle with it in the future though
[02:29] <grantbow> cool
[02:45] <Roguehorse> I just started a DigitalOcean droplet yesterday so I've got a few things I'm working on at the moment
[02:52] <nhaines> Roguehorse: like world domination?
[02:52] <grantbow> nice! what is in the droplet?
[04:13] <Roguehorse> Yes, world domination! Linux for everyone!
[04:13] <Roguehorse> grantbow: It's just an Ubuntu server to play with
[04:14] <Roguehorse> I have one in VirtualBox too - but I wanted to play with DigitalOcean a littlesince it's so cheap and easy
[04:17] <Roguehorse> I want to see if I can get Mailman to fly from Hurricane's DNS
[14:26] <Roguehorse> Good Morning
[17:27] <grantbow> no users of link checkers want to talk about their experiences? the berkeleylug meeting is tomorrow. http://www.berkeleylug.com/?p=1583
[17:27] <darthrobot`> Title: [Berkeley Linux Users Group » Blog Archive » LinkChecker]
[18:11] <ianorlin> link checkers?
[18:13] <ianorlin> hmm if someone has hardinfo there is something similar for the online help in 1353661
[18:13] <ianorlin> bug 1353661
[19:17]  * ianorlin had a good phone interview yesterday in which somone explicitly stated they liked my volunteer expirence but my dad wants me just to apply for more jobs
[19:33] <grantbow> ianorlin: best wishes on the job search


[10:36] <brainwash> hello, can anyone please mark a handful of reports as public? these reports are currently referenced by other reports (duplicates)
[10:37] <brainwash> bugs: 1159143 1204675 1290114 1233107
[12:46] <brainwash> hggdh: can you please reveal the mentioned bug reports? ^
[12:52] <hggdh> bug 1159143
[12:52]  * hggdh kicks ubot2

[12:54] <hggdh> brainwash: 1159143 is public now
[12:59] <hggdh> brainwash: I released the others as well
[13:01] <brainwash> hggdh: thanks :)
[18:27] <awe> hggdh, my membership to ubuntu-bug-control expired, is this something you could restore?  I was granted access so that I can triage/process ofono  bugs, and unfortunately let my membership expire
[18:53] <hggdh> awe: yes, I can. What is your LP id?
[18:53] <awe> hggdh, 'awe'
[18:53] <awe> ;)
[18:53] <hggdh> heh
[18:53] <awe> thanks!
[18:55] <hggdh> awe: done
[18:57] <awe> great, thanks again!


[02:03] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[12:39] <thesyldat> Howdy
[12:40] <lotuspsychje> o/
[12:42] <lotuspsychje> i got green on black on hexchat thesyldat
[15:47] <lotuspsychje> o/
[15:47] <lotuspsychje> wich mac models do you run ubuntu on cbreak
[15:49] <cbreak> currently none
[15:49] <lotuspsychje> i had some good experiences wich bionic & focal on several models
[15:49] <cbreak> What I did do is build a hackintosh, which is a non-mac running macos. It has a fat32 EFI
[15:49] <lotuspsychje> just not too old ones or newer models and m1
[15:50] <cbreak> yeah, the arm macs are tricky. I read it took the devs months to get anything working even at a barebones level
[15:50] <ogra> but luckil someone has done it now ... so you wont anymore
[15:50] <lotuspsychje> asahi linux is a cool project
[15:50] <ogra> *luckily
[15:52] <cbreak> ogra: I wouldn't be surprised if it takes months or years for all hardware to work properly, unless apple is a lot more open with their specs / api / hardware interfaces than I'd expect from them.
[16:05] <ogra> cbreak, well, i think most of the M1 stuff works in asahi ... but i wouldnt invest money into HW until there is a working GPU driver
[16:08] <cbreak> I'm eyeing the framework laptops
[16:10] <ogra> well, if i stay with intel i'm old fashioned and just get a new XPS13 ... but once i can actually run ubuntu natively i'll surely move into apples ARMs 🙂
[16:12] <cbreak> I use AMD on my new machines. Works ok.
[16:12] <cbreak> and even works with ECC memory, unlike most of the intel stuff :)
[16:14] <ogra> i used to use AMD exclusively for ages ... but eventually switched back to intel (dont even know why, it just happened) ... i *do* prefer arm64 but still have not found an ARM laptop that i'd use as daily driver yet
[16:15] <ogra> ARM is the future (and i'm preaching that since a decade being laughed at 🙂 )
[16:15] <tomreyn> no, no, RISC-V is the future
[16:20] <lotuspsychje> ogra: this was the article ive seen recently; https://www.linuxhintbd.xyz/2022/09/how-to-try-ubuntu-new-installer-on-your-current-install.html
[16:20] <ogra> tomreyn, RISC-V is the far future ... 🙂
[16:23] <tomreyn> the far future is the PQC, the personal quantum computer ;)
[16:25] <arraybolt3> What would you even use that for?
[16:25] <arraybolt3> I mean, the way QCs work is weird...
[16:34] <ogra> oh !
[16:34] <ogra> omgubuntu has a new css
[16:35] <ogra> (but still no mention of the new unity flavour or of the ubuntu summit ... looks like joey recently just talks about themes and new flatpak'd software)
[16:39] <leftyfb> there's a new unity flavor?
[16:40] <leftyfb> I don't see it mentioned here: https://ubuntu.com/desktop/flavours
[16:41] <hggdh> leftyfb: just been approved, docs are running behind
[16:41] <leftyfb> interesting
[16:41] <cbreak> ubuntu for phones? ubuntu for IOT? :)
[16:41] <leftyfb> I didn't think that community was all that big/active
[16:42] <cbreak> or ubuntu blockchain NFT scamedition?
[16:42] <lotuspsychje> there are still users on unity
[16:43] <lotuspsychje> had a customer of mine last still running xenial
[16:44] <enigma9o7[m]> if xenial/unity users upgraded to bionic, did they keep unity?
[16:46] <lotuspsychje> i think yes
[16:46] <lotuspsychje> dont think i did that lts upgrade
[16:46] <lotuspsychje> !bionic
[16:50] <ravage> no ZFS on the kinetic canary ISO. should i be worried? i like my ZFS :)
[16:50] <ravage> (no ZFS install option)
[16:51] <lotuspsychje> enigma9o7[m]: i only find The Ubuntu Desktop now uses GNOME instead of Unity. on the releasenotes
[16:52] <lotuspsychje> maybe Maik or rs2009 will remember?
[16:52] <enigma9o7[m]> ah ok that makes sense, it uses the `ubuntu-desktop` pacakge so they could chang eit on people.  if you want to use unity you need `ubuntu-unity-desktop`
[16:54] <lotuspsychje> yeah that i tested a lot unity-desktop on ubuntu-desktop with gnome
[16:54] <rs2009> upgrading from xenial to bionic would install GNOME, but also keep Unity7 iirc (since ubuntu-desktop added GNOME to its dependencies)
[16:55] <lotuspsychje> that makes sense rs2009 tnx
[16:56] <lotuspsychje> so users could make their own transition back then
[16:59] <leftyfb> ravage: you want to ask that in #ubuntu-next
[16:59] <ravage> i can get the canary build of jammy and ask here
[16:59] <ravage> dont think that makes a difference
[17:00] <ravage> it is a question about the new installer
[17:01] <ogra> ravage, ask in the discours thread ... the backend is subiquity (the server installer) i'd assume it can do zfs and just doesnt expose that in the UI yet
[17:01] <ravage> ogra, ok. thanks :)
[17:03] <ogra> lotuspsychje, you mean you didnt notice that everything you want to do all of a sudden requires ten more clicks than in unity ?
[17:03] <lotuspsychje> ogra: i mostly clean installed most lts releases
[17:04] <lotuspsychje> and yeah transition to gnome/activities worked on my nerves :p
[17:04] <ogra> sure ... but the gnome desktop really adds a lot longer ways to reach what you need
[17:04] <lotuspsychje> indeed
[17:04] <lotuspsychje> but now on jammy, lucky i got all my workspaces back
[17:04] <ogra> i use workspace-matrix ...
[17:05] <ogra> that gives me the good old rows/clums setup i need on my laptop
[17:05] <lotuspsychje> the workspaces indicator from gnome extensions here
[17:05] <ogra> *columns
[17:06] <lotuspsychje> looks cool ogra
[17:07] <lotuspsychje> !info gnome-shell-extensions
[17:07] <lotuspsychje> that indicator sits inside this
[17:07] <lotuspsychje> for those who want
[17:07] <ogra> i think most of them have been dropped from that package though ... to push people to wards using the normal extension system instead of debs
[17:08] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[17:27] <lotuspsychje> https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/x9lro5/unity_petition_to_bring_back_this_default_first/
[17:27] <lotuspsychje> speaking of
[17:48] <pizza> thats hot
[20:46] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue752 now available: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue752 :D


[10:25] <RedZTag> My microphone records what I'm listening to http://vocaroo.com/i/s16Z5DRYCmwW I whistled twice there. How do I toggle this 'feature' on/off as it doesn't happen in windows at all.
[10:26] <RedZTag> I'm using a freshish install which I downloaded the image from a week or two ago.
[10:37] <RedZTag> Turning the microphone down to 42% (-22.70DB) seems to allow my voice to come through clearly with the music barely audible
[18:53] <Morgiver> Bonsoir :)


 what's even open at this time
 @RazPi, Denny's
 Mc Donald's
 Burger King if you wait a few minutes.
 https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/music/dolores-o-riordan-lead-singer-cranberries-dead-age-46-n837801
 Watttt
[23:20] <maxolase1squad> Anyone else using Linod? They are really getting under my skin.
 Nope. I colo
[23:20] <maxolase1squad> We got an email after 6pm on Friday that they where going to reboot many of our servers Sunday morning.
[23:21] <maxolase1squad> Emails came in yesterday that servers are rebooting tonight.
[23:21] <maxolase1squad> Got an email at 5:30 today about servers rebooting tomorrow night.
[23:21] <maxolase1squad> I know they got to patch for these CPU issues, but we got to plan for this stuff.
[23:21] <maxolase1squad> On the plus side, it is speeding along are migration to Amazon's cloud hosting.
 The CPU patches are driving several hosting companies insane


[03:52] <nhaines> pleia2: Burbank is the locals-preferred airport for Pasadena.
[03:54] <ianorlin> Yeah I don't know of a good way from LAX to passadena
[03:55] <ianorlin> if you took 105 you would end up taking the bad part of the 110
[03:55] <ianorlin> heading north on 405 sucks and kind of takes you west and away
[03:56] <ianorlin> I don't take the 10 but heard it is slow
[03:57] <ianorlin> nhaines: what is the locals prefred freeway route from burbank to pasadena
[04:00] <nhaines> 405 to 10 to 110, I would imagine.
[04:00] <nhaines> You'd have to ask a local I guess.
[04:05] <ianorlin> nhaines: that sounds awful
[04:05] <ianorlin> nhaines: burbank by 405 sounds bad
[04:05] <ianorlin> to 110
[04:05] <ianorlin> that would take a quite a while
[04:05] <ianorlin> Torrance is close to where 110 and 405 come together
[04:06] <ianorlin> so this means I am at like a Y so I don't take either together
[04:06] <ianorlin> or any interconnecting
[04:06] <ianorlin> ohn missed the to 10
[04:06] <ianorlin> nevermind
[04:07] <ianorlin> 405 to 110 would be a horrible route from  burbank to passadena
[04:08] <nhaines> It would really be the only route.
[04:08] <nhaines> The 405 is only bad during rush hour.
[04:21] <ianorlin> no I mean taking the 405 directly to the 110 near alpine village and then heading north
[04:21] <ianorlin> that is not a sane route
[04:22] <ianorlin> um 405 gets bad sometimes other times of day
[04:22] <ianorlin> nhaines: you do realize I took 405 from UCLA to Torrance for 4 years
[04:26] <nhaines> ianorlin: that is not the route I suggested.
[04:29] <ianorlin> oops yeah I realize that now
[14:28] <ianorlinqt> argh looking at scale stuff when I can't sleep makes me more excited than christmas
[23:22] <nhandler> pleia2: My OSCON talk proposal got accepted! \o/


[00:49] <mup> Bug #1528070 opened: fetching tools output shows template string <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528070>
[00:52] <mup> Bug #1528070 changed: fetching tools output shows template string <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528070>
[00:58] <mup> Bug #1528070 opened: fetching tools output shows template string <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528070>
[01:34] <mup> Bug #1528073 opened: Add the ability to force destroy a unit <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528073>
[01:37] <mup> Bug #1528073 changed: Add the ability to force destroy a unit <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528073>
[01:52] <mup> Bug #1528073 opened: Add the ability to force destroy a unit <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528073>
[01:56] <perrito666> go home mup, you are drunk
[02:19] <menn0> perrito666: LOL
[02:35] <menn0> thumper: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3425/ please
[03:04] <mup> Bug #1488576 opened: TestAddresserWorkerStopsWhenAddressDeallocationNotSupported fails on pp64el <ci> <intermittent-failure> <ppc64el> <regression> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488576>
[03:05] <perrito666> anyone cares to review https://github.com/go-goose/goose/pull/17  ?
[03:10] <mup> Bug #1488576 changed: TestAddresserWorkerStopsWhenAddressDeallocationNotSupported fails on pp64el <ci> <intermittent-failure> <ppc64el> <regression> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488576>
[03:13] <mup> Bug #1488576 opened: TestAddresserWorkerStopsWhenAddressDeallocationNotSupported fails on pp64el <ci> <intermittent-failure> <ppc64el> <regression> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488576>
[03:25] <menn0> thumper: any time to look at that review?
[03:30] <menn0> wallyworld: ping?
[03:30] <wallyworld> yo
[03:30] <menn0> wallyworld: are you able to review something or are you flat out?
[03:31] <wallyworld> am busy, is it smallish? :-)
[03:31] <wallyworld> apiworkrs manifold?
[03:32] <menn0> wallyworld: yep.
[03:32] <menn0> wallyworld: it's not huge but not exactly small
[03:32] <wallyworld> ok, will look real soon
[03:33] <menn0> thumper: thanks. I need to get this landed as it's my last day for the year and others need it to progress.
[03:48] <thumper> gah, looking now
[03:50] <wallyworld> menn0: looks ok to my untrained eye, thanks for detailed covering letter on pr
[03:50] <wallyworld> menn0: i assume live tested?
[03:51] <menn0> wallyworld: indeed it is
[03:51] <wallyworld> yay
[03:51] <menn0> wallyworld: thanks very much for the review. i'll leave you alone now :)
[03:52] <wallyworld> anytime, np
[03:52] <wallyworld> i liked the channel helper a lot
[03:54] <thumper> menn0: done
[03:54] <menn0> wallyworld: \o/
[03:54] <menn0> thumper: \o/
[03:55] <thumper> just some import ordering
[03:55] <menn0> thumper: I thought you were gone so I asked wallyworld to take a look
[03:55]  * wallyworld likes to look
[03:55] <thumper> not fully gone
[03:55] <thumper> although I am now
[03:55] <thumper> laters
[04:13] <blahdeblah> wallyworld/anyone: Any features present or planned that will allow us to provision machine 0 via MAAS with a reasonably locked-down host firewall?
[04:14] <blahdeblah> I'm working on juju envs for our archive & NTP servers and we have the requirement to provision into subnets which have no network-based security.
[04:14] <wallyworld> blahdeblah: juju can be deployed today with restricted outside access. we allow http-, ftp- and apt- proxies to be set
[04:14] <blahdeblah> I'm more worried about inbound than outbound.
[04:15] <blahdeblah> The network doesn't impose restricted outside access; it provides unrestricted inbound & outbound access, and we don't want to leave our nodes unprotected at any stage of the provisioning process.
[04:15] <wallyworld> the main inbound access for the state server is to allow connections from agents on machines running workloads. i believe the networking folks are looking at features this cycle to make that easier
[04:16] <wallyworld> blahdeblah: you'd also need inbound access for clients to talk to the state server. i'd pose the question to andy or dimiter on the saphire team
[04:17] <wallyworld> they'd be able to give you a much better answer than me
[04:18] <blahdeblah> wallyworld: cool - thanks
[04:24] <blahdeblah> wallyworld: Just to clarify: when you say state server, that's jujud-machine-0 (i.e. the thing that listens on 17070), or is it mongodb itself?
[04:24] <blahdeblah> The point here is that we need to deploy in a zero-restrictions environment, but we don't want to allow unrestricted inbound access.
[04:24] <blahdeblah> Essentially, we don't want to be the mugs with an unprotected mongodb exposed to the whole Internet, nor do we want to expose juju/ssh/mongodb/rsyslog in such a way that people can hammer it with brute force attacks all day.
[04:25] <wallyworld> blahdeblah: actually, the current terminology is "juju controller". it is not necessarily machine 0, but till now has been that mostly. and the inbound connection is to the juju agent not mongo; nothing external talks to mongo
[04:26] <blahdeblah> but when you bootstrap, mongodb is still listening on all interfaces...
[04:26] <wallyworld> could be, that bit i'm not sure of
[04:26] <blahdeblah> I can confirm that it does :-)
[04:26] <wallyworld> we just start mongo as a normal systemd service, not sure exactly what the confog is
[04:27] <wallyworld> we should change mongo startup then maybe
[04:27] <wallyworld> it's password protected but that doesn't stop DOS i guess
[04:27] <blahdeblah> yeah; and doesn't guard against any potential mongodb zero-days
[04:28] <blahdeblah> Here's a vanilla bootstrapped machine in Canonistack: https://pastebin.canonical.com/146540/
[04:29] <blahdeblah> So we've got 4 services listening by default: ssh (should be OK by default, since there's no password), rsyslog, jujud & mongodb.
[04:30] <wallyworld> blahdeblah: feel like raising a bug?
[04:31] <blahdeblah> wallyworld: There might not be any bug; it might be just fine and I'm just not aware of the options available.
[04:31] <wallyworld> blahdeblah: your concerns seem reasonable to me, but check with dimiter/andy maybe and see what they say
[04:32] <blahdeblah> I may be worrying about nothing.  If we put the controller behind a firewall, we can still deploy the nodes themselves outside the firewall, correct?  As long as they have access to tcp:17070, we should be able to add them?
[04:33] <blahdeblah> (And by add them, I mean provision through standard MAAS mechanisms.)
[05:01] <perrito666> does anyone know if https://github.com/go-goose/goose uses juju bot? there are commits that would suggest that it does, but my $$merge$$ has been ignored
[05:53] <mup> Bug #1229507 changed: create a machine job for machines/environments that provide local storage <local-provider> <manual-provider> <tech-debt> <juju-core:Won't Fix> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229507>
[08:52] <menn0> blahdeblah, wallyworld: rsyslog is going away very soon. jujud needs to be open unless we can 100% know the addresses or networks agents will be talking to juju from (hard to get right all the time I suspect). mongodb should really be locked down so that it's only open to the other state servers if possible.
[08:52] <wallyworld> +1
[08:54] <blahdeblah> menn0: That's all pretty much as expected - is there a best practices guide giving more detail about options for locking it down in publicly-accessible networks?
[08:54] <menn0> blahdeblah, wallyworld: locking down mongodb will be somewhat tricky though given that the state servers share information with each other via mongodb. Requires some thought.
[08:54] <wallyworld> yup
[08:55] <menn0> anyone able to take a look at this one? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3428/
[08:55] <menn0> it's an easy one
[08:56] <blahdeblah> wallyworld, menn0: BTW, this is all academic if I can get it working with the bootstrap behind a locked-down firewall and the units themselves on the public Internet.
[08:56] <menn0> blahdeblah: sure, but it would be nice to make the default situation more secure
[08:56] <blahdeblah> indeed
[08:57] <blahdeblah> FWIW, I tried it against one of my Canonistack instances, and ssh & jujud were the only things which nmap (in its default config) found.
[08:57] <blahdeblah> (even when I specifically targeted the right ports)
[08:58] <blahdeblah> Not sure if this is a Canonistack thing though - will test again next chance I get
[09:02] <menn0> blahdeblah: were you testing against a state server? rsyslog and mongodb definitely won't be there on non-state server Juju managed machines.
[09:03] <blahdeblah> menn0: Yes - just bootstrapped a fresh Canonistack instance and did nothing other than login and check what was listening.
[09:03] <menn0> blahdeblah: cool, just checking
[09:03] <blahdeblah> Yeah, I was surprised it didn't even respond on the port...
[09:10] <perrito666> does anyone know if mgz or sinzui are coming around today?
[10:02] <voidspace> frobware: hangout issues
[10:02] <voidspace> frobware: currently I can't get to the stdup
[10:09] <voidspace> frobware: restarting firefox doesn't help
[10:09] <voidspace> will try chrome
[10:10] <voidspace> frobware: in chrome I have no working video and possibly not audio either *sigh*
[10:10] <voidspace> looks like you're not there yet anyway
[10:11] <voidspace> ah, now firefox works
[10:11] <voidspace> a bit of manual url mangling does the trick
[10:11] <voidspace> frobware: ping me if you're around
[12:04] <voidspace> jam1: thanks
[13:25] <mgz> cherylj: thanls for filing new bug, was getting confusing tracking in the other one
[13:27] <mup> Bug #1528217 opened: 1.25.2 doesn't set up DNS information with MAAS <blocker> <ci> <maas> <network> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528217>
[13:27] <cherylj> mgz: yeah, I should've done it sooner
[13:27] <cherylj> but I guess I was lazy
[13:30] <mup> Bug #1528217 changed: 1.25.2 doesn't set up DNS information with MAAS <blocker> <ci> <maas> <network> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528217>
[13:39] <mup> Bug #1528217 opened: 1.25.2 doesn't set up DNS information with MAAS <blocker> <ci> <maas> <network> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528217>
[13:52] <cherylj> voidspace: did you have any questions about this CI / MAAS issue?  Not sure how much of a handoff  you were given.
[13:53] <voidspace> cherylj: that email I replied to was the handoff (of sorts), and I'm only in for today :-)
[13:53] <voidspace> cherylj: do you have an easy repro?
[13:53] <voidspace> cherylj: I'm just updating my vmaas - you said you could repro
[13:53] <voidspace> I assume deploy a container...
[13:54] <voidspace> I can see from the other bug it's a nameserver issue
[13:54] <voidspace> I didn't *think* we set nameservers before (unless they were already in e/n/i) but I may be mistaken
[13:54] <voidspace> easy to check though
[13:54] <cherylj> voidspace: yes, just bootstrap a maas with 1.25.2 (without the address-allocation feature flag)
[13:54] <cherylj> and deploy a container
[13:54] <voidspace> cherylj: thanks
[13:55] <cherylj> voidspace: we didn't before, but we didn't manually modify /e/n/i before for containers.
[13:55] <voidspace> but now we modify /e/n/i even without address-allocation
[13:55] <voidspace> right
[13:55] <cherylj> voidspace: I put in two cloud-configs in bug 1525280.  One from 1.25.0 that worked, and one from 1.25.2 that caused the problem, if you want to look at the difference.
[13:55] <mup> Bug #1525280: 1.25.1 with maas 1.8: devices dns allocation uses non-unique hostname <maas-provider> <network> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.25:Fix Committed by dimitern> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1525280>
[13:56] <voidspace> cherylj: yeah, I'll take a look
[13:56] <voidspace> it could be an easy fix
[13:56] <cherylj> voidspace: I saw that for the host node, the dns information is written out to /e/n/i (I think by us?)
[13:56] <mgz> voidspace: poke me if you want to test on finfolk directly as well
[13:56] <voidspace> mgz: thanks
[13:56] <cherylj> maybe look there for how we get it?
[13:56] <voidspace> cherylj: I don't *think* we *add* dns information
[13:57] <voidspace> cherylj: again, I maybe mistaken - that code has changed several times recently
[13:58] <cherylj> voidspace: I just thought we might as it doesn't source /etc/network/interfaces.d
[13:58] <cherylj> but I am not a networking expert by any means :)
[13:59] <voidspace> cherylj: we modify /e/n/i - but only transform the existing to add and use bridges
[13:59] <voidspace> cherylj: so the lack of sourcing interfaces.d is what we get from maas/curtin
[13:59] <cherylj> voidspace: ah, ok
[14:00] <voidspace> cherylj: by 1.25.2 do you mean 1.25 tip? there's no 1.25.2 tag
[14:00] <cherylj> voidspace: yes
[14:00] <voidspace> tnx
[15:48] <mup> Bug #1528259 opened: undertakerSuite.TestAPICalls nil deref panic <ci> <i386> <panic> <regression> <test-failure> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528259>
[15:48] <mup> Bug #1528261 opened: jujud won't start, log shows a lot of "cannot set addresses of machine XXX: cannot find transaction ObjectIdHex("xxxxxx"); <juju-core:Incomplete> <juju-core 1.20:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528261>
[16:11] <frobware> voidspace, ping
[16:14] <voidspace> frobware: pong
[16:14] <voidspace> frobware: grabbing coffee brb
[16:14] <frobware> voidspace, I'm sure you've seen some info on the resolv.conf issue - I can add context here based on what I've tried. Note: I have limited internet connectivity as I'm not at home atm.
[16:15] <voidspace> frobware: cool, thanks
[16:15] <voidspace> frobware: I will have some questions for you
[16:16] <voidspace> frobware: I can confirm the issue - bootstrap with 1.25 tip, deploy a container, ssh to that container and hostnames can't be resolved
[16:16] <frobware> voidspace, right; and my poking around with PrepareContainerInterfaceInfo shows that no  DNS info is returned.
[16:17] <frobware> voidspace, though that is also true for MAAS 1.8
[16:17] <voidspace> frobware: but we wouldn't expect to be setting dns info if there wasn't any in the original /e/n/i I don't think
[16:17] <voidspace> we only (used to) set dns info if it was in the original
[16:17] <voidspace> but if it's there in the original we should be setting it
[16:17] <frobware> voidspace, the original being on the host machine?
[16:18] <voidspace> yep
[16:18] <voidspace> prior to bootstrap
[16:18] <voidspace> really going for coffee
[16:19] <frobware> voidspace, the original for me has dns-nameservers and dns-search entries
[16:20] <voidspace> frobware: ah right, so that's the bug
[16:20] <voidspace> frobware: well, the cause
[16:20] <frobware> voidspace, because it has entries?
[16:21] <voidspace> frobware: no, that we're not preserving
[16:22] <frobware> voidspace, so this is where I got to... when the provisioner makes the facade call where is that info being retrieved from?
[16:24]  * frobware notes that his IRC client says 1m+ lag...
[16:35] <voidspace> frobware: well, it's apiserver/provisioner/provisioner.go:prepareOrGetContainerInterfaceInfo
[16:36] <voidspace> frobware: with different paths depending on if address-allocation is on or not
[16:36] <voidspace> frobware: without address allocation we just ask the provider for the inferface info
[16:39] <frobware> voidspace, so this still works OK with address allocation enabled
[16:41] <voidspace> frobware: for the case when address-allocation is off, what specifically changed about /e/n/i rendering between 1.25.1 and tip?
[16:42] <frobware> voidspace, the bridge script changed, IIRC.
[16:54] <voidspace> frobware: I'm bootstrapping with 1.25.1 to see the difference in rendered output
[16:55] <frobware> voidspace, doesn't dns info come from parsing /etc/resolv.conf, no /e/n/i?
[16:55] <frobware> voidspace, lxc-broker:localDNSServers()
[16:55] <voidspace> oh, we have that code too
[16:56] <voidspace> I'd forgotten about that
[16:56] <voidspace> but how would *that* change between the two...
[16:56] <voidspace> (1.25.1 and 1.25.2)
[16:59] <frobware> voidspace, precisely
[16:59] <frobware> voidspace, so what I was trying to understand earlier is when we make the api facade call does that come out of persisted data?
[17:02] <frobware> voidspace, so configureContainerNetwork is only called when address-allocation is enabled... and in configure...Network() we only call localDNSServers()
[17:02] <voidspace> frobware: we only call that (localDNSServers) if address allocation is on
[17:02] <voidspace> natch
[17:02] <frobware> voidspace, heh!
[17:02] <frobware> voidspace, so where did the info come from...?
[17:03] <voidspace> frobware: soooo... between 1.25.1 and tip the rendered /e/n/i for the host is identical
[17:04] <frobware> voidspace, not terribly surprised. but the confirmation is worthy.
[17:04] <voidspace> frobware: so the base for the interface info comes from the maas provider NetworkInterfaces call
[17:04] <voidspace> frobware: when the lxc container is deployed I get to see the container config
[17:07] <voidspace> frobware: and it looks like  that doesn't populate DNSServers and DNSSearch fields on the network.InterfaceInfo
[17:07] <voidspace> so it's not coming from there (this is 1.25.1 I'm looking at)
[17:07] <frobware> voidspace, are you looking at func (environ *maasEnviron) NetworkInterfaces(instId instance.Id) ([]network.InterfaceInfo, error)?
[17:07] <voidspace> yep
[17:10] <voidspace> frobware: hmmm... prepareOrGetContainerInterfaceInfo is very different between 1.25.1 and tip I think
[17:11] <frobware> voidspace, in lxc-broker?
[17:12] <voidspace> frobware: apiserver/provisioner/provisioner.go
[17:14] <voidspace> frobware: in 1.25.1 containers are provisioned to use dhcp from prepareOrGetContainerInterfaceInfo (it looks like)
[17:15] <voidspace> frobware: and indeed that is the case
[17:15] <frobware> voidspace, which I think I mentioned in the bug. I'm guessing this is where the /etc/resolv.conf entries come from (i.e., the dhcp lease)
[17:16] <voidspace> frobware: in 1.25.2 we render a manual interface
[17:16] <frobware> voidspace, so is the root cause here the switch to dhcp
[17:16] <voidspace> frobware: switch *from* dhcp
[17:16] <frobware> voidspace, switch from...
[17:16] <voidspace> frobware: why was that switch made?
[17:16] <voidspace> it seems like a big change from 1.25.1 to 1.25.2
[17:19] <voidspace> frobware: I've put this in the bug
[17:19] <voidspace> frobware: I think it needs dimiter's comments as it was probably him who changed this
[17:24] <frobware> cherylj, ping
[17:28] <cherylj> what up frobware ?
[17:29] <voidspace> cherylj: bug 1527217 updated
[17:29] <mup> Bug #1527217: RethinkDB installation only works in Ubuntu <DragonFlow:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527217>
[17:29] <frobware> cherylj, the non-uniqueness of MAAS hostnames was an always failure or something intermittent? Asking because one option is to revert the change. Seconds to see if we can get the lxc-broker to add DNS info. Third rework the patch to not use manual allocation.
[17:30] <voidspace> cherylj: dammit, bug 1528217
[17:30] <mup> Bug #1528217: 1.25.2 doesn't set up DNS information with MAAS <blocker> <ci> <maas> <network> <regression> <juju-core:Incomplete> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528217>
[17:30] <voidspace> cherylj: in 1.25.1 containers used dhcp when address allocation was off
[17:31] <cherylj> frobware: this was a consistent failure in 1.25.1  (non-uniqueness)
[17:31] <cherylj> and something that broke.... autopilot maybe?
[17:31] <frobware> cherylj, down to options 2 and 3 now.
[17:31] <cherylj> yeah option 1 wasn't an option
[17:32] <cherylj> I have to run, ping me on hangouts if you need me :(
[17:32] <frobware> ack
[17:38] <voidspace> frobware: just testing with a 1.25.2 and calling localDNSServers when address allocation off
[17:38] <voidspace> seeing if that works
[17:38] <voidspace> it's a really easy fix if it does...
[17:38] <frobware> voidspace, I was about to do something similar.
[17:39] <frobware> voidspace, after this call 'api.PrepareContainerInterfaceInfo' I was about to call localDNSServers and add.
[17:39] <voidspace> bootstrapping now
[17:39] <voidspace> yeah, that's what I've done
[17:39] <frobware> voidspace, is this what you were thinking?
[17:39] <frobware> ah
[17:39] <voidspace> yep
[17:39] <frobware> :)
[17:40] <frobware> voidspace, localDNSServers() is nicely contained so should be able to augment preparedInfo
[17:42] <voidspace> yep
[18:03] <mgz> cherylj: review please, http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3435 (not actually review, just anti-stupidity stamp)
[18:13] <jam1> frobware: voidspace: should we be getting dns servers from MAAS?, I'm thinking that's where we would have gotten it via DHCP in the past
[18:13] <jam> but looking at https://maas.ubuntu.com/docs/api.hmtl#node-interfaces doesn't seem to have the information.
[18:15] <jam> it does seem to be in /api/1.0/subnets/{subnet_id} has a "dns_servers" field
[18:16] <jam> and we do know what subnet a node_interface is on
[18:22] <frobware> jam1: proposing a fix - just waiting to see if the unit tests still pass
[18:22] <frobware> jam: ^^
[18:38] <frobware> cherylj, mgz, voidspace, jam: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3436/ -- very limited testing, but I think independently tested by voidspace
[18:38] <frobware> cherylj, addresses bug 1528217
[18:38] <mup> Bug #1528217: 1.25.2 doesn't set up DNS information with MAAS <blocker> <ci> <maas> <network> <regression> <juju-core:Incomplete> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528217>
[18:39] <frobware> voidspace, you know... I'm not sure what I've proposed is a good fix.
[18:40] <frobware> voidspace, because it applies the hosts /etc/resolv.conf to all interfaces.
[18:40] <mgz> I need to read the previous pr again...
[18:41] <frobware> voidspace, the switch to static IP allocation may have been a step too far for this change.
[18:41] <natefinch> ericsnow: it makes me sad that the formatters return a []byte rather than writing to an io.Writer
[18:42] <mgz> frobware: something like this may be good for master, but for 1.25 if it's at all possible to restore the old dhcp behaviour when the feature flag isn't set I'd prefer that
[18:42] <frobware> voidspace, I'm wondering whether uniqueness could have been done with DHCP - as it previously was.
[18:43] <frobware> mgz, understood but given where I am physically that's going to take a longer and is a little impractical too.
[18:43] <mgz> wait, you're tim peake!?
[18:44] <mgz> (kidding, if we can't do this today we can't do it, that's fine)
[18:44] <frobware> mgz, not quite as far away but internet connectivity is a bit like wet string.
[18:48] <voidspace> frobware: uniqueness and address (dhcp) are orthogonal I think, so it should be possible
[18:48] <frobware> voidspace, agreed. uniqueness would have been a unique change.
[18:49] <voidspace> :-)
[18:49] <frobware> voidspace, I think my change does exactly what happens if address-allocation is enabled.
[18:49] <frobware> voidspace, w.r.t. to setting the same value per interface.
[18:49] <voidspace> right
[18:50] <voidspace> for DNS servers and DNS search only
[18:50] <voidspace> not doing the address allocation
[18:50] <voidspace> right EOY!!
[18:50] <voidspace> goodbye everyone
[18:50] <voidspace> see you on the other side
[18:50] <frobware> voidspace, I was concerned that we would now just give each interface the same DNS info - but that seems true for address-allocation anyway.
[18:55] <alexisb> mgz, frobware, the new behavior (ie going to static allocation) was needed for a bug fix? Or was needed for a maas update?
[18:56] <frobware> alexisb, mgz: I believe it made uniqueness easier.
[18:56] <mgz> well, I think I can see the addresses leaking bug from going over the previous merge
[18:58] <frobware> mgz, Is it easy to slot this change in to see if it does unblock testing?
[18:58] <frobware> mgz, or is that quite a big deal and a time sink?
[18:58] <mgz> frobware: sure
[18:59] <mgz> won't be quick, but can do it easily enough
[19:01] <frobware> mgz, I need to take a break. I'll check back in a bit. if there's no chatter I won't be around until tomorrow evening
[19:03] <alexisb> frobware, mgz we will want to make sure we have  a summary to jam on where we have left today
[19:03] <alexisb> as he is around this week
[19:03] <alexisb> well what is left for the week :)
[19:03] <mgz> ah, that's good
[19:16] <mgz> okay, I'll send the proposed change through as a feature branch now
[19:17] <alexisb> mgz, thank you
[19:18] <mgz> build revision 3455
[19:44] <perrito666> mgz: still here?
[19:45] <alexisb> perrito666, his is but with many demands
[19:45] <alexisb> s/his/he
[19:46] <mgz> perrito666: wotcha
[19:46] <perrito666> ok then, ignore me, I just was curious about the merge bot on goose commpletely ignoring me but ill let you people with that question hanging in the air whiile spend the next 35hs on a plane, cheers
[19:46] <natefinch> lol
[19:46] <natefinch> safe travels perrito666
[19:47] <perrito666> tx
[19:49] <mgz> perrito666: I presume you're not in go-goose
[19:49] <mgz> I can give it the magic letters
[19:49] <perrito666> that might be a valid reason :) could any one on go-goose magic comment me?
[19:49] <perrito666> :)
[19:50] <perrito666> k, bye you all see you in... a lot of hours, cheers
[19:52] <alexisb> safe travels perrito666
[20:03] <wwitzel3> ericsnow, natefinch: I'm finally up and around moving if you need anything, don't know how reliable I will be, I got super sick over the weekend and I was out of it today.
[20:03] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: :(
[20:04] <natefinch> wwitzel3: ericsnow's parting gift ;)
[20:05] <wwitzel3> natefinch: I was pretty much recovered from that and then bam
[20:06] <wwitzel3> Jessa is really sick too, she tried to go to work today and got worse and had to some home early
[20:06] <natefinch> that sucks
[20:31] <thumper> that moment when you realise you haven't started IRC
[20:39] <natefinch> thumper: and then you realize it's the week of christmas and hardly anyone is online anyway
[20:40] <thumper> :)
[20:50] <alexisb> heya thumper welcome back (for 4 days)
[20:51] <thumper> except 24th is a bonus day off
[20:51] <thumper> and I've already finished monday
[20:51] <thumper> so down to two
[20:51] <natefinch> nice of them to give us my son's birthday off :)
[20:53] <alexisb> thumper, I think that just means you have to work twice as hard in the two days ;)
[20:53] <thumper> ha
[20:53]  * thumper wanders off to make coffee
[22:23] <thumper> oh ffs
[22:24]  * thumper looks to merge master into dep-engine
[22:24] <thumper> can we please stop releasing code?
[22:26] <cherylj> if only...
[22:26] <frobware> cherylj, mgz: around for 15 mins or so - did we draw any conclusions on the patch?
[22:26] <cherylj> frobware: can you do a hangout?
[22:27] <frobware> sure
[22:28] <cherylj> alexisb: can you join?
[22:28] <cherylj> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/cheryl-jennings?authuser=0
[22:31] <alexisb> yes