[06:24] <mapps> hi all
[10:14] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[14:14] <zleap> Are there any instructions on using ubuntu server for a NAS box ?
[14:16] <zleap> i think i found something http://askubuntu.com/questions/1266/how-to-set-up-ubuntu-server-as-a-nas
[16:50] <Renfried> for some reason, when I try and watch ITVplayer in firefox it wont start playing the video, but works on chrome. Anyone else have that issue?
[16:55] <m0nkey_> Probably like Netflix, ITV probably has some DRM which Chrome supports.
[16:56] <Renfried> maybe, doesnt give an error though like netflix does. It buffers like it is going to start, just never does
[17:02] <Renfried> interesting, i just got a few crash messages from firefox after i tried itvplayer saying a plug in crashed, even though i dont have firefox anymore, and closed it down manually
[19:57] <Nokaji> Hi, I've got a canon printer newly installed, (not rebooted yet), it does not display ink levels (but I can send files to be printed). Should I install the poorly rated 'Mtink' (primarily for Epson) or is there a Plan 'B'?
[19:58] <Nokaji> Canon PIXMA MX925
[19:58] <Nokaji> (920 series)
[19:59] <directhex> general case: canon are poorly supported. *anything* working without paying for a proprietary driver is a huge stroke of luck
[20:16] <Nokaji> directhex: canon supplies linux drivers for print and scan, I'm aprehensive about installing them without doing so via ubuntu software centre etc
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> Nokaji: canon's linux drivers aren't the best quality
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> they're some of the worst
[20:18] <Nokaji> hmh, doesn't sound encouraging. Luckily i can at least achieve the basics such as printing from libreoffice with it
[20:18] <Nokaji> I thought if it supported CUPS then you were at least half-way home?
[20:18] <penguin42> if it prints that's way more than half-way :-)
[20:19] <Nokaji> well it printed without me having to do a thing, other than plug the leads in
[20:19] <zmoylan-pi> maybe there's a way to make the printer on it's todd to print a printer status page which will tell you how much ink is left...
[20:19] <Nokaji> zmoylan-pi: Yes there is, it has a neat graphical display
[20:20] <zmoylan-pi> and hopefully doesn't use a lot of ink doing it
[20:20] <Nokaji> rumlur has it it won;t work with compatible cartridges though, which i shall revert to
[20:20] <directhex> i once told a canon rep that we would have to be smoking crack, as a department, to accept their printer drivers
[20:20] <Nokaji> rumour*
[20:20] <directhex> this was for a £10k departmental printer
[20:20] <Nokaji> ink price is good for compatible - $5 for a set of five inks
[20:21] <tripleclones> we were recently told by a canon rep that a number of HP printers these days are re-branded canon devices
[20:21] <tripleclones> we still didn't go with them
[20:21] <directhex> not actually true
[20:21] <directhex> just an attempt to get a sale
[20:22] <zmoylan-pi> salesmen lie through their teeth to make sale
[20:22] <directhex> the canon drivers for this room-sized thing were... the quality you would expect for an intern's first project
[20:22] <Nokaji> so what about MTLINK? - should I try it out at least?
[20:22] <directhex> e.g. i386/2.2-kernel-only
[20:24] <zmoylan-pi> one of my proudest moments was making a printout go twice as fast for a fraction of the price quoted by salesman who was trying to get foot in the door of one of our customers
[20:24] <zmoylan-pi> oooooh, fireworks outside....
[20:45] <ali1234> better than fireworks inside
[20:47]  * zmoylan-pi sets screensaver to fireworks.... :-)
[20:48] <penguin42> ----~~~~*
[20:49] <zmoylan-pi> oooooh
[23:20] <bittin> http://www.twitch.tv/twitchinstallsarchlinux :D
[23:25] <penguin42> oh have they actually got it showing now, the first attempt didn't get off the ground
[23:37] <m0nkey_> feed just died
[23:38] <m0nkey_> chat is going ape
[23:39] <m0nkey_> this is how you halloween! http://imgur.com/gallery/6Gv0ROk/new


[03:23]  * skellat looks around, runs away
[03:46] <Cheri703> hola folks
[03:46] <Unit193> Howdy
[03:47] <Cheri703> so I'm going to attempt to learn some infosec stuff :)
[03:47] <Cheri703> that's my new project
[22:21] <Cheri703> paultag: around?
[22:24] <paultag> Cheri703: yeah
[22:24] <Cheri703> sooo....I'm hoping to start learning some infosec stuff...just finished a "basics of information security" and about to start "Hacking: the art of exploitation"
[22:25] <Cheri703> and hypatia is going to teach me some metasploitable stuff in a few weeks :)
[22:25] <paultag> Cheri703: fun :)
[22:25]  * Cheri703 will be teh haxorz
[22:26] <Cheri703> hehe
[22:26] <Cheri703> yeah, it seems like it will be interesting


[01:22] <tsimonq2> Here be spam: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kactivities/+bug/1757668
[01:22] <sarnold> heya tsimonq2 :) the launchpad folks have asked for spam reports to be sent via https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
[01:23] <tsimonq2> Oh yeah? I forgot all about that
[01:23] <tsimonq2> Thanks for the link sarnold :)
[01:24] <sarnold> oh hah, the "paper writing" folks *and* casino folks! how fun
[01:28] <tsimonq2> lmao :D
[13:19] <ricotz> hello, I am having some trouble with building libreoffice on armhf, the build failed multiple times already without a log and while monitoring its progress it indicated a successful build before suddenly being "restarted" and eventually failing (after the expected 20+ hours) - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:7.3.5~rc1-0ubuntu1/+build/24131773
[14:05] <cjwatson> ricotz: I'm afraid there's nothing we can immediately do about this, but it's something we're working on with the people who maintain that cloud
[14:06] <cjwatson> I know it's annoying
[14:11] <ricotz> cjwatson, hello :), I see, does the ongoing archive rebuild have some effect on this behaviour? if this might be the case then those build could be put on hold for some days?
[15:21] <cjwatson> ricotz: if so it's only very indirectly
[17:08] <cjwatson> Frontends might have fallen over, not sure
[17:15] <cjwatson> Stopping buildd-manager until the chaos calms down
[17:45] <cjwatson> Should be back now I think
[17:46] <cjwatson> Started buildd-manager back up


  With compiz activated, the show desktop does not work.  I'm using 16.10.  Any idea on how to fix it?
[22:27] <comptekki> I tried using the default profile in compiz settings then going back to mate profile - still no show desktop.  Other things work like rotate cube and wobbly windows.
[22:32] <swift110> hey all
[23:30] <comptekki> I guess nobody here uses compiz and show desktop.....
[23:31] <Artemis3> comptekki, or mint.
[23:33] <comptekki> I'm not using mint right now.  Installed ubuntu-mate over that partition - but same issue


[01:43] <kirkland> slangasek: around?  I need to get seabios and vgabios re-promoted to main
[01:43] <kirkland> slangasek: i did the MIRs earlier this cycle got them approved
[01:43] <kirkland> slangasek: but they fell out of main for a bit when qemu-kvm stopped depending on them
[01:44] <kirkland> slangasek: bug qemu-kvm now depends on them again...
[01:44] <kirkland> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vgabios/+bug/181876
[01:44] <kirkland> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seabios/+bug/508870
[03:16] <slangasek> kirkland: the packages still don't show up in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt - what version of qemu-kvm depends on them?
[03:17] <slangasek> (I'm not going to promote them until they have a revdep in main, that just runs the risk of another archive admin kicking them right back out again)
[03:47] <lamont> slangasek: livecd-rootfs_1.108 - how much documentation do you need for that - it's the upload to match the change that I made live to terranova earlier today...
[03:47] <lamont> (please to be blessing, once the source shows up - uploaded about 3 min ago)
[03:47] <lamont> or less
[03:48] <lamont> or do you want a bug filed for it for posterity?
[03:52] <lamont> anyway, bed for me.  I'll read scrollback in the morning
[05:31] <slangasek> lamont: er, you know we're not in archive freeze, right?  If you uploaded it, it goes straight in
[10:09] <slangasek> cjwatson, mvo: did you guys ever figure out a way to make libparted0/libparted1.8-12 happy?  (Still held back here for me)
[10:12] <mvo> slangasek: I did not inverstigate further, did I ask you for your /var/lib/dpkg/status file already?
[10:12] <mvo> slangasek: I will add a hint to u-m as a stop-gap, until a proper fix is there
[10:17] <slangasek> mvo: I wasn't the one reporting it originally, I think it was pitti
[10:17] <mvo> slangasek: ok, could you mail me the status file please? just so that I can easily reproduce it?
[10:19] <slangasek> mvo: sent
[10:19] <cjwatson> slangasek: I didn't - is there any way you can test adding libparted0 Conflicts:/Replaces: libparted1.8-12, libparted-2.1-0?
[10:19] <slangasek> can do that in the morning
[10:23] <mvo> thanks slangasek
[10:24] <slangasek> cjwatson: fwiw, my first instinct there would've been to name the package 'libparted0deb' :)
[10:26] <cjwatson> mm, I really hate that sort of thing though ...
[10:26] <cjwatson> (and it'll be hard to do that now, I've already started the 2.2 transition in unstable)
[10:26]  * slangasek nods
[10:30] <lamont> slangasek: oh. doh.
[15:00] <Riddell> BSD with advertising clause means multiverse?
[15:02] <Riddell> hmm, not in non-free in Debian
[15:02] <cjwatson> BSD with advertising clause is free, just GPL-incompatible
[15:04] <ScottK> and really annoying.
[15:14] <kirkland> slangasek: cjwatson got them for me


[14:49] <LeoNerd> So.. Nobody has any thoughts about my broken shelf problem? Am I going to have to manually unpick the pack file myself?
[14:50] <mgz> I think I had a way back, but has been a while and I'm not sure I remember it I'm afraid
[14:50] <LeoNerd> It looks manually -possible-, just a little awkward. the changes that are shelved are one newly-added file (easy to pull out), and some inserts/deletes of lines in another file
[14:51] <LeoNerd> The inserts look easy enough. the deletes look the hardest bit to unpick manually, because I'll have to count line numbers of the 'c' lines
[14:51] <LeoNerd> I think the entire pack is only upset about the newly created directory, so if I can somehow split the pack file into two packs, one that creates the new file in the new directory and one that does the edits to existing files, that might make it simpler
[14:52] <LeoNerd> The new file is added in a new dir- and that's the one I can easily unpick by hand]
[14:53] <fullermd> Maybe you could try backing up to the rev where you'd shelved 'em, and unshelving there?
[14:53] <LeoNerd> That's not the issue.
[14:53] <LeoNerd> I don't think
[14:53] <LeoNerd> I think the issue is that I shelved adding a file to a new directory, but I didn't shelve adding that directory
[14:53] <fullermd> Seems like I have vague memories of some dance like that working once upon a time.
[14:55]  * LeoNerd will give it a go anyway
[14:56] <LeoNerd> Nope.. still upset about:  bzr: ERROR: No final name for trans_id 'new-3'
[14:59] <LeoNerd> Is the pack format actually documented somewhere? I feel it ought to be justabout possible to manually split this file into two pieces.. one that adds a file and one that has all the other-file edits
[14:59] <LeoNerd> I suspect it's only the former that's upset, but that one is easy for me to manually unpick
[14:59] <LeoNerd> I'm just not -quite- sure I understand how to parse the metadata and attribs sections at the top of the file
[15:00] <fullermd> Apart from the source (hopefully the comments in), I don't think so.
[15:00] <LeoNerd> http://paste.debian.net/883914/
[15:00] <LeoNerd> is the header
[15:00] <LeoNerd> I've sortof worked out those lines that begin d
[15:00] <LeoNerd> They appear to be a decimal number then a comma then that number of bytes... a list of strings. apparently an even-sized kv assoc list
[15:01] <fullermd> Yeah, it's some sort of KLV.
[15:02] <LeoNerd> The attribs one is harder. It seems to be 'd', a 10-byte string ("_id_number"), then the next stream character is 'i' which I'm not sure what it means
[15:03] <LeoNerd> maybe it's an "integer" value, ... which could be 30, ending at the 'e'?
[15:05] <fullermd> I think it's bencoding?
[15:05] <LeoNerd> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bencode ?
[15:06] <fullermd> Yeah.
[15:06] <LeoNerd> Ah.. that looks useful, thanks
[15:06] <LeoNerd> OK that looks quite simple. I wonder if I could write me up a quick bencode <-> JSON converter to make it easier to manually manipulate
[15:07]  * LeoNerd , unrelatedly, still sad that pastie.org seems to have died :(
[15:07] <fullermd> Well, considering bzrlib has a bencode implementation, and I'm sure somebody has written a JSON implementation for python sometime...
[15:07] <LeoNerd> By far the best pastebin I used
[15:09] <fullermd> Actually, in a little poking, bzrlib's implementation (at least the .py version; it uses a .pyx mostly) looks like just an import/edit of the code from some bittorrent implementation anyway.
[15:09] <LeoNerd> Mmm :)
[15:11] <fullermd> e.g., compare bzrlib/util/_bencode_py.py with http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~gfrancis/illimath/windows/aszgard_mini/pylibs/bzrlib/util/bencode.py
[15:11] <fullermd> Take out some of the class wrapping and the like...
[15:12] <LeoNerd> Eh; it looks quite easy and trivial enough to reïmplement
[15:12]  * LeoNerd was going to use it as an excuse to add another example into Parser::MGC anyway
[15:13] <fullermd> Pshaw.  Obviously you'd build it on Marpa...
[15:13] <LeoNerd> Hellno
[15:14] <fullermd> But then, there's apparently Convert::Bencode already too
[15:15] <LeoNerd> Yah probably. Again, it's an excuse to write example code
[15:15] <LeoNerd> Because people always complain I don't have enough
[15:15] <fullermd> That leads to recursion, though.  You start writing some sample code, you shelve part of it, and then suddenly...
[15:16] <LeoNerd> Then suddenly I'm stuck under a car fixing bits of it in order to change a lightbulb ;)
[15:17] <fullermd> In point of fact, I did exactly that a couple years ago    :p
[15:17] <fullermd> I had to go buy a switch to replace a stupid dimmer, and on the way back my brake caliper locked up.
[15:33] <LeoNerd> Hrmmmmm...
[15:33] <LeoNerd> d7:message13:State<EMAIL_ADDRESS> <== is the metadata field
[15:33] <LeoNerd> It's a dict of  message => "State objects", revision_id => (that long string)  which ends at the 'e' and then that  B1063  seems to be trailing
[15:34] <LeoNerd> Any idea what that is?
[15:34] <LeoNerd> If I stop at that e then it's fine
[15:36] <LeoNerd> Ooh... maybe I wasn't supposed to include that.. because before that, there was a  B98  marker
[15:38]  * LeoNerd mumbles that pack format doesn't linefeed-terminate its blocks
[15:38] <fullermd> B looks like a marker in the pack header.  At least in a quick glance at the code, which I can't read.
[15:39] <LeoNerd> Yeah.. the pack file itself seems to be a one-line header, followed by data blocks that are B then a decimal integer giving the byte count then a linefeed then that many bytes
[15:39] <LeoNerd> but no linefeed after the data block payload, meaning that the next B marker for every subsequent block starts at the end of the previousl ine
[15:41] <LeoNerd> http://paste.debian.net/883932/  <== is my decoded attribs section anyway... this appears to be working :)
[15:42] <LeoNerd> So.. I wonder if we can work out from here what the error message means
[15:43] <fullermd> Oh, shucks, you can do that by deduction from the message itself   :p
[15:44] <LeoNerd> I might if I knew what a "final name" is
[15:44] <fullermd> Or rather, you can assume something plausible, and since there's nobody around to contradict it, you're right by default.
[15:44] <LeoNerd> Oh.. that little "_new_name" chunk?
[15:45] <LeoNerd> Ah.. maybe I just have to add  'new-3' => 'Room'  into that
[15:46] <LeoNerd> Oh.. and _new_parent otherwise it doesn't know where to root it
[15:46] <fullermd> The problem, as best I guess, is that new-%d is a standin file id shelf puts on things that don't already have one.
[15:46] <fullermd> So since the dir wasn't committed yet when the file was shelved, it didn't have one, so got a standin.  Now there's nothing in the tree with that standin, so it has no idea where to put the file.
[15:47] <LeoNerd> Hmmm
[15:47] <fullermd> So, in _theory_, if you horked up the transform in the pack so it tried to put it under the actual file-id of the directory...
[15:47] <LeoNerd> But it has a new id
[15:47] <LeoNerd>                          'new-3' => 'room-20161015171947-i9zc40ts93rt5svr-1',
[15:48] <fullermd> Is that the directory?
[15:48] <LeoNerd> lib/Net/Async/Matrix/Room                          room-20161015171947-i9zc40ts93rt5svr-1
[15:48] <LeoNerd> According to   bzr inventory --show-ids
[15:48] <LeoNerd> and the dir exists
[15:48] <fullermd> See?  If you'd just kept quiet, I would have been right.
[15:49] <LeoNerd> Hah
[15:50] <LeoNerd> I think I may start by splitting the shelf in half anyway, see if I can make those two separate pieces to simplify things
[15:57] <fullermd> Having all those smarts in shelves is really nice, until it isn't   :|
[15:59] <LeoNerd> Ooooh
[16:00] <LeoNerd> So having nuked all mention of new-2 or new-3 and fixed up the byte lengths, unshelve --preview is happy
[16:00] <LeoNerd> and bzr unshelve  itself did it :)
[16:00] <LeoNerd> Woo.. this seems fine
[16:00] <LeoNerd> Now all that's missing is the entire content of the new file but I can cut that verbatim from the shelf file
[16:01] <LeoNerd> aaaaaand we're back
[16:02] <LeoNerd> ofcourse my extracted code doesn't even compile let alone pass its tests, but that's my fault now. ;)
[16:02] <fullermd> Man, that whole procedure sounds like something you'd find in chapter 7 of "Git For People Smarter Than You".
[16:03] <LeoNerd> Anyhow thanks much for that bencode hint - that seemed to be the key to the whole process
[16:03] <LeoNerd> fullermd++
[16:04] <fullermd> Yay, I did something good.  I can go accomplish nothing the rest of the day then.
[16:04] <LeoNerd> :)
[21:14] <LeoNerd> meh.. now I'm too nervous to use the shelf with a pending mkdir hanging around
[21:38] <LeoNerd> Hrm... also I find myself wanting an  unshelve  with yes/no questions per chunk


[00:01] <copumpkin> okay, I'm seeing something super puzzling
[00:02] <copumpkin> when my cc_copumpkin_custom_crap runs at instance startup, cloud.datasource.metadata only contains a subset of the stuff it contains when I run it interactively later after boot
[00:02] <copumpkin> on the same machine
[00:03] <copumpkin> oh!
[00:04] <copumpkin> it's hardcoded to request an older version of the metadata :(
[00:05] <copumpkin> ARGH, it's the version right before the one that has the feature I want
[00:05] <copumpkin> 2011-01-01 introduced the network hierarchy, and cloud-init explicitly asks for 2009-04-04
[00:05] <copumpkin> smoser: is there an easy way to override DataSourceEc2's api_ver from my cloud-init config?
[13:07] <smoser> copumpkin, we can probably move to the nwere version...
[13:07] <copumpkin> yeah, they only ever seem to add to it
[13:08] <copumpkin> my really elegant solution right now is to patch cloud-init in place before I snap the image ;)
[13:08] <smoser> right. it should be just that one string, right ?
[13:08] <smoser> i'm not opposed to something that checks and is able to use a newer version
[13:08] <smoser> but if we bump the version we have to be able to fall back
[13:08] <copumpkin> yep! super simple sed
[13:08] <copumpkin> fall back how?
[13:09] <smoser> as other clouds impersonate ec2 and likely dont' have newer YYYY-MM-DD
[13:09] <copumpkin> oh, hmm
[13:09] <copumpkin> didn't know that
[13:09] <smoser> its very common to impersonate ec2
[13:09] <smoser> :)
[13:11] <copumpkin> aha
[13:11] <copumpkin> although if we just bump it up to the 2011 date
[13:11] <copumpkin> that's still pretty ancient
[13:11] <copumpkin> I wonder if there are impersonators who impersonate one particularly ancient version but not the one right afterwards
[13:11] <copumpkin> "we have a policy to only replicate APIs that are 6 or more years old, and yours is only 5 years old"
[13:11] <copumpkin> :P
[13:11] <smoser> copumpkin, yeah, what i think i'd do is read the old one, and if its present then go looking for new ones.
[13:12] <copumpkin> oh, that makes sense
[13:12] <smoser> and i'd just jump fro 2009 to whatever is most recent.
[13:12] <smoser> there is an index too
[13:12] <smoser> if you just get the metadata/ i think you get a list of versions
[13:13] <smoser> but since we never got that before we'd then be adding some new expectation, which probably does work.
[16:36] <harlowja> smoser u review my stuff yet, shall i merge it
[16:37] <harlowja> i will be around to fix shit if i broke it :-P
[16:37] <harlowja> (which of course it does not)
[16:37] <harlowja> (obviously)
[16:38] <smoser> harlowja, reading...
[16:38] <smoser> i will review today.
[19:29] <konetzed> Hay anyone know how to get cloud-init to set hostnames via reverse dns or will i need to write a custom module for that?
[20:00] <rtheis> How do I request a revert of https://github.com/openvswitch/ovs/commit/b00bdc728e7a0ae697b4fc59a4f9958b688c6789 ?  networking-ovn gate is failing because ovs-bugtool.in fails flake8
[20:01] <rtheis> sorry wrong channel


[18:35] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: to use PW with jack as a device it seems I will have to use jackd with a wrapper. This means that jackdbus will not work, I think.
[18:36] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, I seem to recall that I told Wim years ago about jackdbus being a thing and he was surprised. I don't think the API was ever implemented.
[18:36] <OvenWerks> jack_control or other dbus commands to start jack via jackdbus, tell the dbus system to auto start jackdbus
[18:37] <OvenWerks> I wonder if it is possible to prestart jackdbus manually
[18:38] <Eickmeyer> No idea. The question is, and maybe you've answered this, but what's the advantage of doing that vs using the pipewire implementation of jack?
[18:38] <OvenWerks> VIA doesn't stick around long enough for an answer.
[18:38] <arraybolt3[m]> I thought it was FireWire support.
[18:38]  * arraybolt3[m] may be far off track
[18:39] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3[m]: Well, one would have to switch to the old PulseAudio setup for that as well.
[18:39] <OvenWerks> yes, using jackd as a device allows using jack backends PW does not support
[18:39] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: no, it appears that is not true.
[18:39] <Eickmeyer> Oh, so that's news.
[18:40] <OvenWerks> It is a matter of working out the gymnastics to make things happen
[18:41] <OvenWerks> some things can be changed on the fly, other things have to be changed in a file and PW restarted.
[18:42] <OvenWerks> using pw as a jack client seems to require a restart
[18:42] <Eickmeyer> Complete system restart or pipewire.service restart?
[18:42] <OvenWerks> remains to be seen :)
[18:43] <Eickmeyer> Ah.
[18:44] <OvenWerks> the changes to autojack are significant to make this work.
[18:44] <OvenWerks> I am a long way just to do testing.
[18:45] <OvenWerks> A lot of the stuff I would normally do in autojack it seems might be best done in studio-controls, except for autostart things.
[18:46] <OvenWerks> There are a number of things I am not happy with in pipewire still... but they are not show stoppers.
[18:47] <Eickmeyer> That's good.
[18:50] <OvenWerks> I can set the default device to show in the jack graph as system:playback/copature_* but if we want a jack master as one device but a virtual device as default for desktop use (to redirect L/R to system:playback_9/10 for example) pavucontrol switching default from USB,0,0 to virtual will move the system: names to the virtual device as well  :P
[19:04] <Eickmeyer> O_o
[19:07] <Eickmeyer> I'm not sure if it's because it's the day after Thanksgiving or if it's because it's a downpour outside, but my brain is having trouble groking that. I'm assuming that's a good thing.
[19:07] <Eickmeyer> I mean, I *know* that would make sense to me normally. LOL
[19:22] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: :) thats ok. I would like jack system or master device to be disasociated from desktop default. They are not the same thing really.
[19:23] <Eickmeyer> Right, but bridgable to desktop default would be nice, such as we can do now with PulseAudio.
[19:30] <OvenWerks> yeah. we can do that in a number of ways. we can make a loopback which has input ports and output ports which can auto connect to system:playback_15/16 (if thats where the speaker or headphone is) which is fine
[19:32] <OvenWerks> the desktop application can be manually sent to that loopback. This is fine. now we set the desktop default to that loopback and the loopback inputs are now renamed to system:playback_1/2 and the original system:playback_* are now M66:playback-AUX*
[19:33] <OvenWerks> but M66:capture_AUX* are still named system:capture_*
[19:34] <Eickmeyer> I see.
[19:34] <Eickmeyer> As long as it makes sense to the user, then I'm cool with it.
[19:36] <OvenWerks> well lets see, we want ardour to see our multi port device as system:* we don't want that to change. but we want desktop stuff to auto connect to system:playback_9/10 cause that is where the physical outputs are.
[19:38] <OvenWerks> but to playback a video on firefox, we start the video, ff connects to system:playback_1/2, we have to manually start pavucontrol and change the output of that stream to desktop:playback_L/R
[19:39] <Eickmeyer> So, pavucontrol, despite being PulseAudioVUControl, still works under PipeWIre?
[19:40] <OvenWerks> because if we change the desktop default to desktop:playback_* the name of output device changes in the jack graph and ardour now has only 2 outputs in stead of 12 or 16 or whatever.
[19:40] <OvenWerks> yes the desktop stuff still uses the pulseaudio api
[19:41] <OvenWerks> so pavucontrol still works
[19:41] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, that totally makes sense.
[19:41] <OvenWerks> (as do all the DE specific audio controls which use the same dbus calls)
[19:43] <Eickmeyer> So, what I'm thinking is this: default would be PipeWire + pw_jack. Studio Controls would then have a switch to change it to the setup you're designing. Is that what you have in mind?
[19:45] <OvenWerks> that sound like a different line of thought :)
[19:45] <OvenWerks> I think I will look at the system
[19:46] <Eickmeyer> Ok. Ruth had found an article that does the configuration, so a separate configuration for pw-jack needs to be done in order to make it start by default, which means a new package.
[19:46] <Eickmeyer> (some files have to be installed to /etc)
[19:47] <OvenWerks> if pactl info tells me that pulseaudio is supplied by PW then I set desktop to PW. if libjack is forwarded to pw then the whole system is PW (for both desktop and jack)
[19:48] <Eickmeyer> Right. But, there's an easy way to stop pw-jack, I just don't remember how off the top of my head.
[19:48] <OvenWerks> if pulse is not supplied by pw then we run pa/jack and make sure that libjack is not worwared to PW
[19:48] <Eickmeyer> I think it's a matter of removing that config file I'm talking about and then restarting pipewire.
[19:49] <OvenWerks> pw-jack can run all the time so long as jack clients can't see it
[19:50] <OvenWerks> pw internals are hard coded to see the pw libjack anyway.
[19:52] <OvenWerks> but yeah, it is not hard to get pw not to load the jack plugin.
[19:53] <Eickmeyer> I think I'd like it to load the jack plugin by default so people have something that "just works" out of the box, and then if they want a more advanced setup, studio-controls can do that configuration via the methodology you're describing.
[19:54] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: my thought had been to have three options: pa/jack, pw, pw/jack
[19:55] <Eickmeyer> Right, we were agreed on that from the start.
[19:55] <OvenWerks> The default should be determined by what the system runs by default. If pa is running then the default is pa/jack. if pw is running then pw works as both pa and jack
[19:56] <Eickmeyer> Yep, that's what I'm thinking. PW by default. BUT, FYI, on Ubuntu Desktop (Vanilla), the pw-jack plugin is not installed by default. Even if it's installed, it needs some configuration to be loaded at startup otherwise one has to run "pw-jack ardour {arguments}" for instance.
[19:56] <OvenWerks> depending on how well these different modes work.... My preference would be pipewire does it all with the possibility of jack as a device
[19:57] <OvenWerks> that is just a one file change/install and ldconfig (all sudo)
[19:58] <OvenWerks> I don't think a reboot is even needed
[19:58] <OvenWerks> (or a pw restart even)
[19:59] <OvenWerks> however, if pw/jack works better, I might opt for that.
[19:59] <Eickmeyer> You might be right.
[19:59] <Eickmeyer> pw/jack might work better in some situations, but it's a far more complex setup than pw alone.
[20:00] <Eickmeyer> From an end-user perspective.
[20:01] <OvenWerks> that I don't know at this point. first I need to be able to switch reliably from pa/jack to pw_alone and back. Then I can try more.
[20:02] <Eickmeyer> Fair.
[20:02] <OvenWerks> I would like to see what pw presents to jack as ports when running as a "jack client"
[20:03] <OvenWerks> If it shows all the devices pw can see, that could be a good thing.
[20:03] <Eickmeyer> Ah, sure. What I was thinking was, using PW alone, all Jack and PulseAudio clients simply present themselves in qpwgraph or patchance as individual clients irrespective of type.
[20:04] <Eickmeyer> That would be a huge boon to end users.
[20:04] <OvenWerks> yes. no zita-ajbridge needed
[20:04] <OvenWerks> or setup
[20:05] <OvenWerks> if pw just works then controls is not really needed.
[20:05] <Eickmeyer> One thing that is important, though, is that it still needs a buffer size and possibly a way to change sample rate.
[20:05] <OvenWerks> it will still provide some nice things in a gui, like being able to change the name of a device.
[20:06] <OvenWerks> the GUI will do that (the GUI being controls)
[20:08] <OvenWerks> pw has two names (well three) for every device. The desktop uses description, the jack graph uses description by default but can be set to use "nick". The there is the actual node name
[20:09] <Eickmeyer> That "nick" is convenient.
[20:09] <OvenWerks> The node name is unique.... and long. The nick can be set to something like "Daves_mic"
[20:11] <OvenWerks> if all devices in the system are allready unique (different manufacture or model) then the user can set both description and nick to something nice and short.
[20:13] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: in controls in the extra devices tab (now device info... or should it be settings?) there is a "jack base name" that will become the pw nick. I have added a description field as well that the user can change.
[20:14] <OvenWerks> also a pw profile selector.
[20:15] <OvenWerks> The pw profiles seem to be the same as the PA profiles, just copied to another directory.
[20:15]  * OvenWerks will have to learn profiles :P
[20:21] <Eickmeyer> This could become, like, the ultimate PW setup utility.


[08:50] <dupondje> Odd, suddenly since today screensaver is broken :(
[08:52] <dupondje> gnome-screensav[1448]: Cannot open display:
[09:48] <mitya57> jbicha: ^^^ you did the gnome-screensaver merge, do you know what could break it?
[10:11] <dupondje> mitya57: its 17.10 btw, no upgrades happend there on gnome-screensaver?
[10:27] <dupondje> its just weird that lock button suddenly seems to be gone since today :(
[10:27] <dupondje> quite annoying
[11:04] <dupondje> allright found the fix
[11:04] <dupondje> for some odd reason disable-lock-screen was enabled in dconf
[11:04] <dupondje> suddenly ...
[11:04] <dupondje> seems like something triggered that
[20:32] <mitya57> Oh, sorry, I did not realize it is 17.10. Unping jbicha :)


[22:48] <StaRetji> hello fellows
[22:48] <StaRetji> can someone help me on dual boot issue?
[22:50] <StaRetji> guess not
[22:50] <StaRetji> well, bie


[02:17] <MountainX> I would like to report an installer crash in 16.04 daily build. As soon as you click "Continue" from the Welcome screen it crashes.
[02:17] <tsimonq2> MountainX: file a bug report
[02:17] <tsimonq2> MountainX: probably in ubiquity
[02:18] <MountainX> filing official bug reports is too complicated. I can't ever seem to figure that out. Jus thought I'd do what I can and mention something about it here.
[08:02] <thagabe> Hello anyone out there in the ether
[08:02] <thagabe> could someone help me get bash autocomplete to work on 16.04?
[08:03] <thagabe> It doesnt work for sudo user and limited for the current user
[08:05] <damascene> thagabe, is bash-completion installed?
[08:05] <damascene> Which version?
[08:06] <thagabe> what's the command to check the version of bash autocompletion
[08:06] <thagabe> i dont know the correct pkg name
[08:11] <damascene> apt-cache policy bash-completion
[08:14] <thagabe> bash-completion:
[08:14] <thagabe>   Installed: 1:2.1-4.2ubuntu1
[08:14] <thagabe>   Candidate: 1:2.1-4.2ubuntu1
[08:14] <thagabe>   Version table:
[08:14] <thagabe>  *** 1:2.1-4.2ubuntu1 500
[08:14] <thagabe>         500 http://mirror.atlantic.net/ubuntu xenial/main amd64 Packages
[08:14] <thagabe>         500 http://mirror.atlantic.net/ubuntu xenial/main i386 Packages
[08:14] <thagabe>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[08:15] <damascene> thagabe, please use some paste service like fpaste.org
[08:15] <damascene> let me check that
[08:16] <damascene> Any reason why you are on 16.04, Do you want to participate in testing?
[08:17] <thagabe> I do
[08:19] <damascene> That is nice, thanks
[08:20] <damascene> thagabe, I've the same version as you on 16.04. but I did not notice any problem. Could you please give me an example of the problem?
[08:21] <damascene> for example I typed the letter "s" and then double Tab <Tab><Tab> it showed me that there is 148 package starts with "s"
[08:22] <thagabe> sure, so i just made the install on my bonobo bonx8. I am using btrfs in raid0 and subvolumes for @ and @home. the most prominent is apt-get
[08:22] <thagabe> in 15.10 i would be able to tab complete the command "sudo apt-get update"
[08:23] <thagabe> but when i type sudo it loses the ability to tab complete and if i only do "apt" it lists out the other commands that it could autocomplete however
[08:24] <thagabe> after choosing apt-get it will not autocomplete to {update, upgrade,dist-upgrade,install}
[08:25] <damascene> I'm sorry. I'm unable to reproduce it on my system. Every think works justs fine and I can use the completion in apt-get with sudo.
[08:26] <thagabe> would uninstalling the package and reinstalling it help?
[08:27] <damascene> I do not think so if you did not mess with it. Any way you can wait here for other user who might have more info about the issue
[08:28] <thagabe> yeah im in no rush
[08:28] <thagabe> i think it would be useful to mention that i am using ubuntu gnome
[09:21] <lordievader> Good morning.
[11:40] <soee> hi, do you plan to release kernel 4.4 for xenial?
[17:34] <hggdh> any known issue on Unity,preventing the desktop to work?
[18:46] <nicomachus> hggdh: unity 7 or 8?
[20:22] <dreamcat4> hi! so how is 16.04 / unity 8 alpha 1 at the moment? too buggy to use?
[20:24] <dreamcat4> anybody? a current issues wiki page or something?
[20:33] <dreamcat4> i looked here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Alpha1 and it says...
[20:33] <nicomachus> dreamcat4: the only issue I've found is that Unity 8 does not yet work in Virtualbox.
[20:33] <dreamcat4> nicomachus: sweet! and is it worth using unity 8?
[20:33] <dreamcat4> over unity 7
[20:35] <dreamcat4> well i guess i'll just have to download the latest nightly and find out for myself
[20:42] <nicomachus> I haven't used it, because it won't work in vbox
[20:51] <dreamcat4> ah ok
[20:52] <dreamcat4> anybody else knows how unity 8 is ATM ?
[20:53] <lotuspsychje> dreamcat4: ive tested it on xenial why?
[20:53] <dreamcat4> lotuspsychje: because i'm about to install from nightlies and wouldnt mind knowing if its buggy as hell, to avoid it
[20:54] <dreamcat4> because aparrently gotta choose between 7 and 8 now
[20:54] <lotuspsychje> dreamcat4: its not buggy, but looks more like the ubuntu touch version right now
[20:54] <dreamcat4> cool, right i understand
[20:54] <lotuspsychje> dreamcat4: so rather go for unity7
[20:54] <dreamcat4> so might be simplified interface / missing features
[20:54] <lotuspsychje> dreamcat4: where do you have to choose, at install?
[20:55] <dreamcat4> i assume so. still downloading it ATM
[20:55] <lotuspsychje> ah
[20:55] <lotuspsychje> dreamcat4: i dont think it will ask for unity8
[20:56] <lotuspsychje> dreamcat4: but you can install unity8 after your xenial installed for testing
[20:56] <dreamcat4> right ok


[14:02] <FurretUber> Hi, I found a memory leak on i915 on the kernel 5.0.0-7 and 5.0.0-8 from Disco Dingo. It seems similar to another i915 leak where it leaks when Vulkan applications are used
[14:03] <tjaalton> FurretUber: please file it upstream
[14:03] <tjaalton> so we'll get a fix via the stable branch, maybe
[14:05] <kubkde> hey there fellers. i'm interested in rebuilding my kernel to include f2fs modules. is this the correct channel or should i be using a support channel instead?
[14:20] <kubkde> i should be cloning the git repo from kernel.ubuntu.com, correct? I've seen others use apt to pull
[14:34] <kubkde> So do I really have to download the whole thing?
[14:35] <kubkde> I didn't expect to download 800+ MB to add a couple modules lol
[16:31] <stgraber> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta-lts-xenial/+bug/1820526 is a bit of a problem
[16:51] <arighi>  /q tru
[16:51] <klebers> apw, ^ our linux-meta-lts-xenial is producing a linux-signed-generic-lts-xenial that depends on linux-generic instead of linux-generic-lts-xenial
[19:03] <kubkde> How can I load f2fs modules into a kernel to compile?
[19:03] <chiluk> @apw @cking ... Here's my last few months of work rolled up into an e-mail.  https://lkml.org/lkml/2019/3/18/706
[19:04] <kubkde> And in a broader sense, is the page linked in the topic up to date?
[19:04] <chiluk> afaik I've seen 512ac99 accepted on some of the linux-stable trees.  I'm not sure who's doing stable maintenance any more, but you might want to watch out on this one.
[19:05] <cking> chiluk, this is excellent analysis; thanks for the heads up on this
[19:05] <cking> ..be interesting to see what upstream says about it
[19:06] <chiluk> Yeah I figured you guys might want a heads up...
[19:06] <chiluk> especially with the stable submissions... and performance is hard kind of issues.
[19:07] <kubkde> is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/ well rounded enough to learn from?
[19:07] <chiluk> You can definitely learn from it.
[19:08] <chiluk> what are you trying to accomplish kubkde?
[19:08] <chiluk> you might want to try with the Documentation directory in the linux kernel source...
[19:10] <kubkde> chiluk, thanks for replying. I want to rebuild a kernel to include f2fs so I don't have to use dracut or initramfs. And also see if what I could accomplish/make 'better' from compiling my own.
[19:11] <chiluk> You are unlikely to make much if anything "better" imho.. but you definitely can turn on the flag..
[19:11] <chiluk> and yes that documentation is the best place to go for compiling Ubuntu kernels with the Ubuntu specific patches
[19:11] <chiluk> so you don't break anything.
[19:14] <kubkde> chiluk, I'll take a look at the documentation direction right now, thanks. Would I be applying the patches after I've done my modifications? Also, what do people generally modify kernels to do? I saw one called 'XanMod' and it looked...the same?
[19:15] <kubkde> Christ this is thick.
[19:15] <chiluk> People who generally modify kernels are the same who don't know what they are doing...
[19:16] <chiluk> in general the only time you should modify kernel sources is if you are fixing something that is broken, and directly fixing c code
[19:16] <chiluk> or you need to do something specific like enable a module that is not enabled.
[19:16] <kubkde> How long have you been developing? I don't mind the reading but I'm afraid I might end up forgetting to go to work.
[19:16] <kubkde> I see
[19:17] <chiluk> kubkde..  in your case.. .I just checked and CONFIG_F2FS_FS=m is already set in the 4.15 ubuntu kernels
[19:17] <chiluk> you may simply need to modprobe f2fs to get things functioning.
[19:18] <kubkde> :O
[19:18] <chiluk> really you are unlikely to see any performance differences from building a custom kernel..
[19:18] <chiluk> sometimes even turning on architecture specific optimizations for your specific cpu end up in regressing performance.
[19:18] <kubkde> How do you check that? And doing modprobe f2fs doesn't work. I'll try to pull up the specific errors I got in regards to f2fs
[19:19] <chiluk> but I'd love to hear how that goes.
[19:19] <chiluk> kubkde ... you need to "sudo modprobe f2fs"
[19:19] <kubkde> chiluk, that's definitely what I figured. What I plan to do is strip it down to be hardware specific
[19:19] <chiluk> that's the thing though.
[19:20] <kubkde> Of course...sudo modprobe f2fs. I chrooted into the install after it was done, too
[19:20] <chiluk> so much is built as modules now that nothing is loaded that doesn't need to be there.
[19:20] <kubkde> Interesting
[19:23] <chiluk> the other problem is that so much of the kernel is integer logic that the differences between architectures are almost negligible as all of the fancy architecture specific bits  *(aes, simd, sse, etc) don't really apply to the kernel.
[19:25] <chiluk> kubkde... good luck though.. I'd love to hear if you make something faster.. You definitely can make the memory footprint smaller.  but ram is cheap these days.
[19:27] <kubkde> chiluk, I've got so many questions but I don't want to be that pita looking to be spoonfed haha. Reducing memory would be huge for me since my VMs keep eating it all up.
[19:28] <kubkde> Of the encyclopedia of that documentation folder, which one do you think would be best to start with?
[19:28] <chiluk> you should look at the cloud kernels instead
[19:28] <kubkde> cloud kernels?
[19:28] <kubkde> woah wtf
[19:28] <chiluk> sorry apt install linux-image-virtual
[19:29] <chiluk> those are minimal kernels that only support cloud architectures ..
[19:29] <chiluk> i.e. xen, kvm, .. not sure if others are supported... maybe vbox..
[19:29] <chiluk> kubkde... did I make your day?
[19:30] <kubkde> chiluk, you sure did :p
[19:31] <chiluk> kubkde... as for learning kernel internals/adminning I'd start with Documentation/admin-guide...
[19:31] <chiluk> if you only care about ubuntu kernels the wiki you linked is probably best.
[19:31] <chiluk> but it assumes you know a lot of the stuff in the Documentation folder.
[19:31] <kubkde> Thanks, I really appreciate all the info you've given me. I run most VMs locally but even the idea of cloud kernels. Still wtf'ing lol.
[19:31] <kubkde> I see, that's somewhat ironic
[19:33] <chiluk> 'tsall good ... those are not well publicized.... glad to be of service..
[19:35] <chiluk> kubkde just to be explicit the virtual kernels are supposed to be run in the guests not the host.
[19:37] <kubkde> I'm going to stick with Ubuntu so I don't get sidetracked. Ideally once I get good, I'm going to check out cloud kernels since it'd be useful on a resume and for my own media servers lol.
[19:37] <kubkde> Sure that makes sense, thanks for the clarification
[19:38] <kubkde> It feels like once someone knows how to write a kernel a whole other world of possibility is unlocked
[19:38] <kubkde> understands a kernel* rather than how to write one
[19:42] <kubkde> Alright....I can't believe you actually read through this chiluk
[19:43] <chiluk> kubkde: to be truthful, I only check this once every month or so, and usually it's just to harass my canonical friends about cool stuff I'm working on... so you got REALLY lucky.
[19:43] <kubkde> :o
[19:43] <kubkde> :O
[19:43] <kubkde> holy sh*t lol
[19:43] <chiluk> yeah..
[19:44] <kubkde> I didn't even recognize
[19:44] <kubkde> Lol
[19:44] <chiluk> usually this channel is kind of one of those things where you ask, and then wait a day and see if someone responds.
[19:44] <chiluk> usually someone does.
[19:44] <kubkde> Then I got really really lucky
[19:45] <kubkde> You've got my gratitude chiluk :)
[19:45] <chiluk> although if you are just learning ... start with the admin-guide... have fun building a custom kernel.. see if you find any performance improvements... *(I have a feeling you won't)... there's a lot to learn.
[19:46] <kubkde> What's the general timeframe I should be expecting to have a full understanding?
[19:50] <kubkde> And sorry to bug because I'm sure you're busy, but I couldn't find any documentation on a module named (I think) libcrc32c
[19:51] <chiluk> kubkde... never... Linus does not claim to have a full understanding.  As for your module, probably start with modinfo libcrc32c .. then you might have to go to the source.
[19:52] <chiluk> fortunately modules are usually a pretty good place to start learning kernel programming as they tend to be more self-contained than other parts of the code base...
[19:52] <chiluk> another thing to do is actually read a book... I can recommend "linux kernel development" by robert love
[19:53] <chiluk> but may expects that you already know a bunch of os fundamentals
[19:58] <kubkde> Ah that would be an issue
[19:58] <chiluk> cool I'm out kubkde... good luck.. I've done my good dead for the month.
[19:59] <kubkde> Turns out I just need to build and install crc32c to run dracut -f --add-drivers f2fs successfully
[19:59] <kubkde> And yeah for sure
[19:59] <kubkde> Thanks for all the tips!
[19:59] <kubkde> Today's my lucky day lol
[20:00] <kubkde> Take care chiluk, see you in a month
[20:00] <wxl> hey folks. i seem to be having a problem building upstream virtualbox kernel modules in xenial/4.4.0-143 but the bug seems to be related to 4.4.169 and on. this is true in all of the version they have available from 5.0-6.0. and yet the ubuntu version (5.1) works fine. seems related to a api change https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=202365 but i'm confused as to how being on an older kernel
[20:00] <wxl> i'm still having this problem. any insight?
[20:07] <chiluk> kubkde dract is a fedora initramfs builder.. you are probably going to want update-initramfs instead ..
[20:13] <kubkde> chiluk, right, but the f2fs module either still wasn't loading or something else wasn't working. I tried modprobe f2fs and added it in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules. I do know that all the crc* modules have to be loaded from reading Fedora/Arch forums. Grub's current git (2.03~) has f2fs but it fails make-check. Dracut actually worked once...but once. So the plan is to rebuild a kernel to have all those modules in
[20:13] <kubkde> it...although after reading that kernels are mostly full of modules I don't know if compiling my own would be a solution to having f2fs as my root partition
[20:54] <kubkde> btw chiluk if you're still around is there anything you think is exciting that's coming up in the new kernels or that could be added? And I know Dracut is for Fedora, but does that mean I'm more than likely to just break more things when I could be using initramfs-tools lol
[21:11] <chiluk> ^^ it could break things you are unaware of.
[22:58] <FurretUber> Earlier today I found a memory leak on i915 on kernel 5.0. It was asked to report on upstream. I did the bisect but where should I report it?
[22:59] <FurretUber> As this is fixed on 5.1-rc1, for FreeDesktop bugzilla it would be considered already fixed
[23:51] <tomreyn> FurretUber: https://www.kernel.org/ states that 5.0(.2) is a stable branch, and the latest. i think FDO would still care having it fixed in the 5.0 branch.