[04:58] <jam> morning all
[08:37] <DominikF> Morning everyone! So I'm working on a Kubernetes Charm with the new framework, and the docker image I'm using doesn't have python3 installed.  How should I proceed if I want actions? What is the best practice of using actions with bash? Preferably i would install python on the pod each time I instantiate one, but don't know if thats possible.
[08:48] <Chipaca> mo'in!
[08:50] <jam> Hi DominikF. You can do actions in bash, though the python framework obviously can't help you.
[08:50] <jam> You could have a bash script that then installs python, but I'm not sure that fits with how people expect K8s pods to work
[08:51] <jam> You could use the docker image as a base and build another image on top of it that *does* include python
[08:53] <DominikF> jam: yes, I was thinking about something like that, what is your guys plan for this in the future?
[08:54] <DominikF> jam: If I would do it in bash I would I just add an actions folder like in the previous charms?
[08:58] <jam> DominikF, correct. even when using the framework, if you have an actions directory with scripts in there, the framework will call them.
[08:59] <jam> DominikF, "plan for this". How to get python where you need it?
[08:59] <DominikF> jam: yep
[08:59] <jam> morning Chipaca
[09:00] <jam> DominikF, so my recommendation would be to build a container based on the one you want that also includes python, as it seems the most k8s/docker consistent
[09:03] <DominikF> jam: thanks, that clears up my doubts! Just wanted to make sure I'm doing it the right way as we are going to show this Charm in the next OSM Hackfest.
[09:23] <Chipaca> MarkMaglana: I'll reach out to you to get that k8s.py usable via the library/plugin mechanism, early next week
[09:23] <MarkMaglana> Chipaca: rock on!
[09:24] <Chipaca> MarkMaglana: great that you said it was yours, because that was my next task :) figuring out its origin
[09:44] <Chipaca> jam: wrt breaking changes, i'd like to at least talk about moving away from action-as-a-property
[09:44] <Chipaca> but that's a big one, we change that we break everybody :)
[09:44]  * Chipaca breaks the world
[09:44] <Chipaca> good movie, that
[09:44] <Chipaca> er
[09:44] <Chipaca> jam: i said action i meant status
[09:45] <jam> Chipaca, ah, I was a bit confused and started looking at where action was a property. :)
[09:45] <jam> Chipaca, the medium term discussion was that we could do both (have it as a property and as something you can set via method)
[09:45] <Chipaca> jam: and exceptions?
[09:46] <jam> Chipaca, so in my head having exceptions have a status that will be set if they bubble up doesn't have to change *how* we set the status otherwies
[09:47] <Chipaca> jam: I meant: (drop charm.status and instead) have charm.set_maintenance(...) and charm.set_active(...) but raise Waiting() and raise Blocked()
[09:49] <Chipaca> (set_active is a bad name, but you get the idea)
[09:50] <Chipaca> this accomplishes, transparently, the "let me set these while running but only set these at the end", imho
[09:51] <Chipaca> and those same semantics via charm.status = …  are super weird (again imho)
[09:54] <jam> Chipaca, I think you should raise an exception to set Active status... clearly. :)
[09:55] <jam> Chipaca, I like where you're thinking is going, I don't know that we "have to break everyone" to have that behavior, but we could certainly deprecate it, or just break it with a .X release.
[10:10] <Chipaca> jam: in any case we need to fix #278 :)
[10:10] <mup_> Issue #278: Unit.status not unit tested <bug> <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/278>
[10:10]  * Chipaca gets on it
[10:10] <Chipaca> jam: dunno if you saw I moved #190 out of draft
[10:10] <mup_> PR #190: README: a significant rework <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/190>
[10:17] <jam> Chipaca, commented on 190
[10:26] <Chipaca> jam: right back atcha
[11:06] <Chipaca> jam: should there be an 'invalidate' for _status?
[11:07] <Chipaca> or rather, should Application and Unit have _invalidate i guess
[11:08] <jam> Chipaca, you're trying to invalidate what the status is?
[11:08] <Chipaca> jam: yup
[11:09] <Chipaca> it's cached very aggressively which means the call to status-get is hard to test for reliably :)
[11:10] <facubatista> Muy buenos días a todos!
[11:10] <Chipaca> facubatista: 👋
[11:10] <facubatista> hola Chipaca
[11:14] <jam> morning facubatista
[11:14] <facubatista> hola jam
[11:14] <jam> Chipaca, so status-get has always been a bit weird, because you're the one responsible for telling *us* what the status is
[11:15] <facubatista> jam, let me know when you have a minute to continue (here) my eternal blog-apache talk, thanks
[11:18] <jam> facubatista, just making coffee and then we can chat
[11:18] <facubatista> great, thanks
[11:19] <jam> Chipaca, i'm fine with an invalidate, I would just caution that I don't really want to ever change status 'behind the back' of the charm.
[11:26] <Chipaca> jam: i fear there's a bug
[11:26] <Chipaca> shocking i know
[11:26] <Chipaca> getting details now
[11:26] <jam> Chipaca, no bugs, only opportunities for enlightenment
[11:27] <Chipaca> jam: the harnes's status_get returns the (status, message), or None
[11:28] <Chipaca> jam: and that's then used for StatusBase.from_name(s['status'], s['message'])
[11:28] <Chipaca> jam: neither tuples, nor None, are dicts :-)
[11:29] <jam> Chipaca, indeed, status_set / status_get were certainly something I didn't test via Model
[11:29] <Chipaca> status_set is tested, in     def test_local_set_valid_app_status(self):
[11:29] <jam> Chipaca, I think it was something I threw together as a prototype, and then added tests, but of course, my tests conformed to my implementation, but not to the *contract* of status_get :)
[11:29] <Chipaca> status_get isn't because _status gloms the value
[11:30] <Chipaca> :)
[11:30] <Chipaca> jam: i'll fix
[11:33] <jam> Chipaca, thanks for the catch
[11:37] <facubatista> jam, so, what I did after my talk is to also register my `on_apache_relation_joined` method to the upgrade-charm hook, so I could work on it until I have it in good shape
[11:37] <facubatista> of course, I don't have the relation from the event, so I just grabbed it from elsewhere
[11:37] <jam> facubatista, sorry, I am back if you want to chat
[11:38] <facubatista> so, I first tried this:  relation_data = self.model.get_relation('apache').data['apache2']
[11:38] <facubatista> but I got a  *** KeyError: 'apache2'
[11:38] <facubatista> so I explored a little, and end up doing this:
[11:38] <facubatista>         relation_data = [v for k, v in self.model.get_relation('apache').data.items() if k.name == 'apache2'][0]
[11:39]  * facubatista waits for jam's horror scream
[11:39] <jam> facubatista, it is an Application, not a string
[11:39] <jam> facubatista, relation = self.model.get_relation('apache'); relation_data = relation[relation.app] would work
[11:39] <jam> It isn't how I'd like to see in production code, but for testing things it seems ok
[11:41] <facubatista> jam, it will give me the same thing I grabbed juggling with the code above, right?
[11:42] <jam> facubatista, indeed, but means you can relate to something that isn't exactly named 'apache2' and have it continue to work
[11:42] <facubatista> jam, why you wouldn't want it in prod?
[11:43] <jam> facubatista, for x in y: if x.name == "apache2"
[11:43] <jam> means you can only relate your charm to exactly an application named "apache2"A
[11:43] <jam> if I do "juju deploy apache2 custom-apache" it will break
[11:43] <jam> juju relate custom-apache facus-blog
[11:44] <jam> will look for an object named "apache2"A but only find an object named "custom-apache"
[11:45] <facubatista> jam, ah, I thought that you wouldn't want *your* code snippet in prod
[11:45] <facubatista> of course, I wouldn't want that horrible listcomp from mine in prod either
[11:46] <facubatista> so, let's move to your code
[11:48] <jam> (fwiw, it would be easier to hook into relation-changed, and then use 'juju run --unit apache2/0 relation-set blah=1' to trigger relation-changed again)
[11:48] <facubatista> jam, relation_data = relation[relation.app] --> TypeError: 'Relation' object is not subscriptable
[11:48] <jam> facubatista, relation_data = relation.data[relation.app]
[11:48] <jam> sorry, I left out an attr
[11:50] <facubatista> jam, great, so I reached the same point that yesterday, which originated my question
[11:51] <jam> facubatista, so you're able to trigger the code as you want?
[11:52] <facubatista> jam, yes! and I set data in the relation, data, but then I get a:   ops.model.RelationDataError: cannot set relation data for apache2
[11:53] <facubatista> jam, this is the method code and log relevant part, fwiw: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/C82HRtdDtY/
[11:54] <jam> facubatista, relation.data[relation.app] is the data being sent by apache2
[11:54] <jam> to set data you need to
[11:54] <jam> relation.data[self.app]
[11:55] <jam> eg, set the data in *your* bucket, so that the other units can read the data you are sending.
[11:59] <facubatista> so frustrated with this
[11:59] <facubatista> I still feel it backwards
[12:04] <jam> facubatista, you are telling apache about yourself, not telling it how it should be configured.
[12:04] <jam> what happens when there are 3 different relations to apache, each one can't set apache directly
[12:04] <facubatista> but, but... I DO want to tell it how it should be configured!!
[12:04] <jam> they tell apache about themselves and apache responds
[12:05] <facubatista> how it should be configured *regarding me*, of course
[12:05] <facubatista> why would I want to tell apache how it would be configured regarding somebody else?
[12:06] <facubatista> jam, how many "buckets" may we have in relation.data ?
[12:07] <jam> facubatista, each unit and each app has their own bucket
[12:07] <facubatista> jam, each unit/app in the whole system, or in the relation?
[12:07] <jam> in the relation
[12:07] <facubatista> so, always four? two on the other end of the relation, and two here?
[12:09] <jam> facubatista, well, more if you have more than 1 unit on either ide
[12:09] <jam> side
[12:10] <facubatista> and in "this side" always two, right?
[12:13] <jam> a given unit will have its data bucket which it can read/write. and it can read other units data, and the remote app data
[12:13] <jam> if it is the leader, it then also gets to read/write its app data bucket
[12:20] <jam> Chipaca, I've tested #283 with Juju 2.7 and 2.8 and a couple permutations of symlinks vs shell scripts
[12:20] <mup_> PR #283: ops/main: handle dispatch being a shim  <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/283>
[12:20] <jam> I think we should probably land it, but it doesn't handle Juju 2.7 and hooks/install is a script
[12:20] <jam> (it thinks it is being invoked as dispatch but no JUJU_DISPATCH_PATH is set)
[12:20] <jam> I'm not sure if we *can* support that case
[12:26] <facubatista> jam, is this accurate? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EXXsHXOb3ECAev-M2M2IIljnWgXEenrX2g86b57Wwwo/edit (feel free to edit to improve wording) -- thanks!!
[12:27] <jam> facubatista, "how the other end presents to you", "what the other end is presenting to you" might be clearer,
[12:27] <jam> but yes, looks correct to me
[12:28] <facubatista> clearer how? I think being as precise as possible there improves the value, I was vague, but because I lack deep understanding of that point exactly
[12:35] <jam> It feels like it is clearer English.
[12:35] <facubatista> "Virtual host templates can also be specified via relation. See the vhost-config relation section below for more information." <-- aja! I'm setting the data in the wrong relation
[12:36] <facubatista> " A candidate charm should provide a relation on the apache-vhost-config interface." ... /me adds a "provides" in blog's metadata yaml
[12:38] <jam> facubatista, apache-website docs say "site_config- A vhost configuration block"
[12:39] <facubatista> jam, yeap
[12:40] <facubatista> jam, I'm setting this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/QhhFd3w4KH/
[12:40] <facubatista> (but IIUC in the wrong relation)
[12:42] <jam> looking at https://api.jujucharms.com/charmstore/v5/apache2-35/archive/hooks/hooks.py it looks to write out a file into sites_dir/name.conf containing the vhost config
[12:44] <facubatista> jam, you're cheating looking at the apache's charm source code, if we want wide adoption the docs should be clear enough :p
[12:45] <jam> facubatista, I'm not trying to fix legacy/reactive charms just yet.
[12:45] <jam> I don't disagree, but that is future world
[12:45] <facubatista> jam, note that there are two ways of setting the config
[12:45] <facubatista> jam, one through a config change, other through the vhost relation, which allows to be set *from the subordinate charm*
[13:05] <jam> facubatista, can you look at #264 again? I think I cleaned up the merge.
[13:05] <mup_> PR #264: test/test_model.py: Test Model using Harness._get_backend calls <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/264>
[13:05] <facubatista> jam, will do, yes
[13:06] <jam> thx
[13:18] <facubatista> Chipaca, I was wrong, Enum defaults to a nice way of seeing the value:
[13:18] <facubatista> >>> Relations = enum.Enum('Relations', 'PEER PROVIDES REQUIRES')
[13:18] <facubatista> >>> str(Relations.PEER)
[13:18] <facubatista> 'Relations.PEER'
[13:18] <mup_> PR operator#284 opened: ops/model: cover app.status and unit.status better <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/284>
[13:18] <jam> facubatista, internally they are still ints, though. right?
[13:18] <facubatista> (if you do repr() you will see the underlying int... but you can also define the internal values as the same string, which I'm not sure it's needed)
[13:19] <facubatista> jam, they're by default, yes
[13:19] <jam> Chipaca is trying to make it look like he was working today instead of just galavanting around in his backyard
[13:19] <facubatista> jam, galavanting?
[13:19]  * Chipaca gallivants with flair
[13:19] <jam> "go around from one place to another in the pursuit of pleasure or entertainment."
[13:20] <facubatista> "less common spelling of gallivant"
[13:20] <jam> just misspelled :)
[13:29] <facubatista> jam, +1 to 264, please see the comment, thanks!
[14:11] <Chipaca> jam: i'm going to emulate the "2.7 with dispatch and hooks/install not a symlink" by also supporting "no dispatch and hooks/install not a symlink" directly (which i think master supports)
[14:12] <jam> Chipaca, so hooks/install as a script works if you set JUJU_DISPATCH_PATH, but 2.7 won't be setting that
[14:13] <jam> which is the thing we need to fix
[14:13] <Chipaca> yep yep
[14:13] <jam> "no dispatch and hooks/install is a script and no JUJU_DISPATCH_PATH" sounds great
[14:19] <jam> So it seems that since ops is part of 'github.com/canonical' we end up getting serialized in travis with all other Canonical projc.ts
[14:36] <MarkMaglana> good meeting! glad i could help!
[14:36] <facubatista> MarkMaglana, :)
[15:35] <Chipaca> jam: i didn't realise you were still around, i pushed the signature fix to 264 for you
[15:35] <jam> Chipaca, I stopped by to check on the progress, and was pleased to see that you fixed my bug for me
[15:35] <Chipaca> jam: now travis is being travis
[15:35] <jam> Chipaca, not really around :) Just trying to follow up on my PR before the weekend
[15:35] <jam> it just started mine again
[15:37] <jam> Chipaca, from what I can tell, Travis will only let 2 jobs from 'canonical' run, and multipass has a 2hr job
[15:38] <Chipaca> jam: the limit is 5 simultaneous workers, for free tier users
[15:39] <jam> Chipaca, clearly that isn't the number they are actually running
[15:39] <Chipaca> jam: 264 now green fwiw
[15:39] <jam> Chipaca, yeah, I'm writing the commit now
[15:40] <Chipaca> jam: per organisation? i see 3 in use for cloud-init right now for example
[15:41] <jam> Chipaca, ah, I only see 1 "job" but it is a top level job. I guess it is indivi
[15:41] <jam> sub jobs that are limited to 5
[15:41] <Chipaca> yeah, by workers i meant the vms
[15:42] <Chipaca> you can limit it to less than 5 to be fairer within the org
[15:42] <Chipaca> or you can pay them :)
[15:42] <jam> landed #264
[15:42] <mup_> PR #264: test/test_model.py: Test Model using Harness._get_backend calls <Created by jameinel> <Merged by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/264>
[15:43] <Chipaca> woop woop
[15:43] <mup_> PR operator#264 closed: test/test_model.py: Test Model using Harness._get_backend calls <Created by jameinel> <Merged by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/264>
[16:28] <facubatista> jam, pushed another version of charmcraft#1 and answered all conversation
[16:28] <facubatista> s
[16:28] <mup_> PR charmcraft#1: Charmcraft tool base skeleton <Created by facundobatista> <https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/1>
[16:53] <Chipaca> facubatista: thanks for the review on 190, i've commented out the TBD links
[16:57] <facubatista> Chipaca, in #283 I'm really confused about "legacy"... you wrote a "run_any_legacy_hook" method that starts working with "dispatch" (which is not a legacy hook, right?), and if dispatch is not there, it's looged like "Legacy <this> is not there"
[16:57] <mup_> PR #283: ops/main: handle dispatch being a shim  <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/283>
[16:57] <facubatista> Chipaca, mind to explain that a little to me? thanks!
[16:58] <Chipaca> facubatista: say you have a charm running under 2.8
[16:59] <Chipaca> facubatista: and your charm has a dispatch file
[16:59] <Chipaca> facubatista: and your charm also has hooks/install
[16:59] <Chipaca> facubatista: juju will see the dispatch file and call it, ignoring all hooks/* guff
[16:59] <facubatista> yes
[17:00] <Chipaca> facubatista: it is dispatch's responsibility to call the legacy hooks/install file
[17:00] <facubatista> yes
[17:00] <Chipaca> facubatista: the end
[17:00] <facubatista> not the OF
[17:00] <Chipaca> facubatista: not the OF?
[17:00] <Chipaca> ah, the operator framework
[17:00] <Chipaca> facubatista: what do you mean, not the OF?
[17:02] <facubatista> mmm... I was expecting that if the developer put a dispatch file, and still wanted her hooks/* scripts to be called, that she would handle that in the dispatch file
[17:03] <facubatista> but yes, we could handle that
[17:03] <facubatista> and put a dispatch that is a symlink to the source, and we'll make the hooks/* to be called
[17:03] <Chipaca> facubatista: that is already supported
[17:03] <facubatista> if she doesn't want the hooks/* to be called after setting the dispatch file, she can remove them
[17:04] <Chipaca> facubatista: this is about dispatch being a shim that still calls us, we still need to do this -- or the shim does, but we want the shim to be minimal
[17:05] <Chipaca> facubatista: for a custom dispatch all they need to do is unset the appropriate variable
[17:05] <Chipaca> facubatista: and everything would carry on as before :)
[17:05] <facubatista> unset which variable?
[17:05] <Chipaca> MAKE_FACUNDOBATISTA_GREAT_AGAIN
[17:06] <Chipaca> facubatista: or maybe JUJU_DISPATCH_PATH
[17:06] <Chipaca> facubatista: if JUJU_DISPATCH_PATH is unset by dispatch, and they then execute e.g. hooks/install (that's a symlink to src/charm.py), it'll Just Work (tm)
[17:07] <facubatista> yes
[17:07] <Chipaca> facubatista: anything else i can answer? otherwise i'm going to eod
[17:08] <facubatista> Chipaca, I need to see this with fresher eyes, no worries
[17:08] <Chipaca> i can mail you one of my son's eyes
[17:08] <Chipaca> i'm sure they won't mind
[17:08] <Chipaca> they've got, like, four of them
[17:39] <facubatista> each?? :p
[19:07] <Chipaca> facubatista: yours dont?!?
[19:08] <facubatista> Chipaca, nop, only two eyes per kid... shall I ask for a rebate?
[20:03] <Chipaca> facubatista: are you sure they're not halflings?
[20:04]  * facubatista checks in the kids documentation
[20:30]  * facubatista is out
[20:35] <Chipaca> facubatista: take care
[20:35] <Chipaca> i too should wrap
[20:35] <facubatista> Chipaca, hasta mañana
[20:35] <Chipaca> facubatista: disfrute


[00:53] <soren> I've been wondering this for too long now: What the heck is the "Review type" field for in code reviews?
[00:54] <spiv> soren: Launchpad uses it to request "ui" reviews and the like
[00:54] <jpds> soren: code / db / ui / foobar.
[00:54] <soren> OH!
[00:55] <soren> Err.. oh.
[00:55] <soren> So if a patch touches a bunch of areas, you use the "review type" to say that you've only looked at the UI bits of it, or what?
[00:56] <soren> It's a field you fill in as the reviewer, not the person requesting the review.
[00:56] <jpds> Or leave it blank and individual people can do different review types.
[00:56] <jpds> soren: eg, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jpds/launchpad/fix_361650/+merge/16749
[00:56] <spiv> soren: you can use it when requesting reviews too, I believe
[00:58] <soren> jpds: Great, an example was exactly what I was hoping for. :) Thanks.
[04:46] <nuclear_eclipse> hi, I uploaded a package to my PPA about an hour ago (or more), but my PPA page still looks "empty", and I didn't get any error messages during the upload process?  Is this sort of latency to be expected, or should I be trying to further investigate why it's not showing up?
[04:53] <wgrant> nuclear_eclipse: You should receive an email within five minutes, as long as you signed the package with a key known by Launchpad.
[04:53] <nuclear_eclipse> hmm
[04:54] <nuclear_eclipse> it was signed with my gpg key that (afaik) Launchpad knows about already... =\
[04:54] <nuclear_eclipse> didn't get an email though, so I'll double check that
[04:54] <nuclear_eclipse> thank you
[04:55] <nuclear_eclipse> ah ha, I must have regenerated my key sometime in the past 4 years... :P
[05:00] <nuclear_eclipse> wgrant: ok, I uploaded my new gpg key to launchpad and confirmed it, will my PPA upload automatically get queued now, or do I need to reupload it?
[05:04] <wgrant> nuclear_eclipse: You'll need to upload it again.
[05:06] <nuclear_eclipse> yay! I got the email
[05:07] <nuclear_eclipse> thanks wgrant
[05:07] <wgrant> nuclear_eclipse: excellent.
[05:09] <nuclear_eclipse> wgrant: how long do pending builds usually take?
[05:09] <wgrant> nuclear_eclipse: Most of the time they should start within a couple of seconds.
[05:10] <wgrant> nuclear_eclipse: If you click on a pending build, it should give you an estimate of the start time.
[05:11] <nuclear_eclipse> lol, "Start in 1 hour (2505)"  :P
[05:12] <wgrant> nuclear_eclipse: Ah, you're stuck behind lots of daily builds.
[05:12] <wgrant> You've picked just about the worst time of the day.
[05:12] <nuclear_eclipse> heh, figures
[05:12] <wgrant> If you look at https://launchpad.net/builders you can see what's going on.
[05:18] <nuclear_eclipse> wgrant: guess I should have come in here to complain sooner :P
[06:35] <Peng> Loggerhead appears to be down.
[06:36] <Peng> Well...it gives Internal Server Errors. Which means Loggerhead itself is running, which is good, I guess.
[06:36] <Peng> I've tried a few different branches. None of them work.
[06:39] <spm> Peng: ta; I got an alert earlier; but it all checked green. so left as is; but apepars no, it was really futzed in an infrequent way. Bounced.
[06:40] <Peng> spm: <3
[06:41] <spm> heh
[06:41] <Peng> Wonder what the logs say?
[06:42] <spiv> Peng: "TIMBER!" perhaps
[06:45] <spm> "please. help."
[06:46] <Peng> "help, I'm trapped in a Python factory!"
[06:46] <spm> wow. that's a cool error. (what's in the logs) logging that as a bug....
[06:46] <spm> logging a loggerhead bug - sorry - no pun intended; but spelled out JIC you missed it.
[06:47] <Peng> I'm tired, so I totally missed the pun. :P
[06:47] <Peng> I mean, I missed that it was a pun, and just interpreted it normally. :P
[06:47] <spm> probably a good thing when all's said and done
[06:48] <Peng> Thanks for filing a bug. :)
[06:48] <spm> nearly....
[06:49] <spm> hmm. must be friday evening; can't think of a decent bug report title....
[06:49] <Peng> You're lucky; I can't ever think of good bug titles. :P
[06:50] <spm> ha
[06:50] <spm> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/517418 for the terminally curious
[06:51] <Peng> Oh, that looks hideous wrapped to 80 characters.
[06:51] <spm> yeah...
[06:51] <Peng> Hmm, lru_cache KeyError? I think there's a bug open about that.
[06:52] <spm> yes; I was under the impression we had a fix for that tho. perhaps not.
[06:52] <Peng> Looks like I was thinkig of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/loggerhead/+bug/420738
[06:52] <Peng> Maybe.
[06:59] <spm> Ahh this is the one I was thinking of. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/514090
[06:59] <Peng> Oooh.
[06:59] <Peng> Jeepers, how many lru_cache issues do we have? >.>
[07:00] <spm> yeah....
[07:00] <Peng> Wait, that looks like a dupe too.
[07:01] <Peng> Am I too sleepy, or are bug #420738, bug #514090 and bug #517418 the same thing?
[07:01] <Peng> Yes, thank you, ubottu.
[07:03] <spm> probably; I personally prefer to load up new info in a new bug report; oft the circumstances are different in some way. And I'm not familair enough with the code (read, at all) to make a call one way or the other.
[07:03] <Peng> Well, as you can see, I marked 517418 as a dupe of 420738. Hopefully I'm not wrong.
[07:03] <Peng> :P
[07:04] <wgrant> Odd that nobody noticed 420738 when 514090 was discovered.
[07:04] <wgrant> They do appear to be dupes.
[07:04] <Peng> 514090 is happening to a different LRUCache, but it should still be the same base issue.
[07:05] <spiv> spm: I agree, it's easier to mark a bug as a dupe than split a one bug report's conversation into two bugs.
[07:06] <spiv> (Although arguably that it's harder to split is a bug in itself)
[09:37] <appiah> ...
[09:44] <nigel_nb> thanks niko
[09:44] <niko> np
[09:47] <wgrant> How do I add an SSH key to my account?
[09:48] <wgrant> I cannot find documentation.
[09:48] <wgrant> (I know how to do it, but I would like to link to existing docs)
[09:49] <nigel_nb> wgrant, https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/CreatingAnSSHKeyPair ?
[09:50] <wgrant> nigel_nb: Ah, yes, that works. Odd that it's not linked from the Codehosting docs.
[09:50] <nigel_nb> wgrant, :)
[09:51] <Daviey> wgrant: There is a link on https://edge.launchpad.net/~USER/+editsshkeys in the intro paragraph
[09:52] <wgrant> Daviey: I don't know how to get there. I'm just reading through https://help.launchpad.net/Code/UploadingABranch.
[09:52] <nigel_nb> wgrant, it probably assumes that you've set up SSH keys by then
[09:53] <wgrant> nigel_nb: That's probably not a valid assumption.
[09:54] <nigel_nb> wgrant, time to update documentation then :)
[12:52] <d1b> hi question can i have a private bzr repo on launchpad?
[13:01] <noodles775> d1b: you can, there are commercial subscriptions (more info here: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/208). Does that help?
[13:02] <noodles775> (It's normally for non-open source licenses - not sure what license you're using).
[13:10] <d1b> noodles775: im not. just keep comp society documents in git atm.
[13:10] <d1b> trying to find a way to host them. would be public *but* there are emails and other stuff that spammers might like
[13:21] <falktx> hi there
[13:21] <falktx> I (or we) have a problem
[13:21] <falktx> i uploaded a package to my PPA and it doesn't stop building
[13:21] <falktx> it's on a error loop
[13:21] <falktx> https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid/+sourcepub/953608/+listing-archive-extra
[13:22] <noodles775> looking
[13:32] <noodles775> falktx: I'm just watching them now... up to 7minutes... I'm hoping to get the log before it's redispatched (but that's unlikely as the queue is currently empty).
[13:33] <noodles775> I'm assuming the builder itself is returning BUILDERFAIL or GIVENBACK, which just put the build back in NEEDSBUILD, but I'm not sure why yet.
[13:34] <wgrant> noodles775: We don't yet clean the build log from the record, do we?
[13:34] <wgrant> Or did that get fixed in the refactoring?
[13:34] <noodles775> wgrant: no, not until it's re-dispatched I think?
[13:35] <noodles775> (and what are you still doing up??, but great that you're here :) ).
[13:35]  * noodles775 checks.
[13:35] <wgrant> It's not even 1am.
[13:35]  * wgrant is grepping around.
[13:35] <noodles775> *even*, ah to be a uni student again ;)
[13:36] <wgrant> Heh.
[13:36] <wgrant> I can't see where it would be set back to None, unless it was manually retried.
[13:36] <noodles775> Yeah, it's actually the buildqueue record's logtail that is set back to None during the reset().
[13:37] <noodles775> So we should be able to get it via the api (even though it's not displayed on the web ui because the builder is in BUILDING state.
[13:38] <wgrant> It's None.
[13:38] <noodles775> And the builds are back to NEEDSBUILD :/
[13:38] <wgrant> Huh. So they are.
[13:38] <noodles775> Actually, one of the is failed...
[13:38] <noodles775> https://edge.launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid/+build/1486042
[13:39] <falktx> i just saw that
[13:39] <falktx> you guys cancelled it?
[13:39] <noodles775> Nope.
[13:39] <wgrant> The amd64 got SIGKILLed somehow.
[13:39] <wgrant> OOM-killer, perhaps.
[13:39] <noodles775> So maybe a losa did something?
[13:42] <falktx> the i386 build just restarted
[13:45] <wgrant> I wonder if a similar thing happens to the i386 build, except that one of the more critical build processes gets killed, so buildd-manager fails to communicate with the slave and resets the build.
[13:45] <wgrant> GIVENBACK and BUILDERFAIL should result in a stored build log.
[13:52] <noodles775> I just checked the logs, and it always seems to be on the same builders (samarium and osmium).
[13:54] <wgrant> That could just be a scheduling quirk.
[13:54] <wgrant> I don't see how it would remember.
[13:54] <noodles775> Sure, I was just wondering whether it could be related to the builders themselves, rather than the job.
[13:55] <wgrant> Ah, right.
[13:55] <thekorn> is it just me or is staging down?
[13:56] <noodles775> Down for me too. losa^^ ?
[13:56] <nigel_nb> thekorn, me too!
[13:56] <thekorn> phew, good ;)
[13:58] <doctormo> How would I do a bug search using the launchpadlib?
[14:00] <wgrant> Could it be restoring?
[14:01] <wgrant> successful-updates.txt suggests that it might finish in about four minutes.
[14:02] <noodles775> Yep, there's a staging update in progress.
[14:02] <bac> doctormo: a bugtarget has a 'searchTasks' method exported
[14:03] <doctormo> bac: I might need a recap on how that works, because I don't understand what a task is or a bug target.
[14:04] <bac> doctormo: a bugtarget is anything that can have a bug.  a project, distro, etc
[14:04] <doctormo> bac, so the idea is to have an exact bug number and check that, but if you do have a project / distro etc then you can do a bug search?
[14:05] <bac> and a bug task is the bug assignment to a bug target -- a bug can have multiple bug tasks if it affects say firefox and gtk
[14:05] <doctormo> bac: I think I understand, yes.
[14:05] <bac> doctormo: if you already have the bug number you don't need a search, you can get it directly using lp.bugs[123]
[14:05] <doctormo> Yes
[14:05] <wgrant> There we go, staging is back.
[14:05] <doctormo> But there is no way to do a search outside of a project or distro?
[14:05] <bac> but you can search on a given project using the searchTask method
[14:06] <bac> doctormo: that i don't know
[14:06] <doctormo> OK, I'll assume not.
[14:06] <wgrant> doctormo: There is no way to do that on the API at the moment, no.
[14:06] <bac> i've been stymied in the past trying that.  we may need to ask intellectronica or another bug genius
[14:06] <doctormo> lp.bugs.has_key(123) would work right?
[14:07] <intellectronica> genius? me?
[14:07] <bac> bug123 = lp.bugs[123] is easier to grab it
[14:08] <bac> intellectronica: sorry, i meant "super genius"
[14:08] <intellectronica> huh
[14:08] <intellectronica> so, what did you want to ask?
[14:08] <bac> doctormo: this page has examples.  there is nothing for searching bugs.  perhaps you can contribute a snippet when we figure it out.
[14:09] <bac> intellectronica: doctormo has questions about searching for bugs using launchpadlib
[14:09] <bac> i mentioned bugtarget.searchTasks()
[14:09] <intellectronica> yes, that's how you search for bugs using launchpadlib
[14:10] <bac> intellectronica: but there is no site-wide search...you have to know the project/distro you're interested in, right?
[14:10] <intellectronica> doctormo: why don't you look at the documentation for IHasBugs.searchTasks() and ask me if you have any specific questions?
[14:10] <bac> doctormo: i meant to paste: https://help.launchpad.net/API/Examples
[14:10] <intellectronica> yes, searchTasks is a method you call on something like a distro or a project. you can't search across launchpad as a whole
[14:12] <doctormo> Thanks intellectronica and bac
[14:13] <intellectronica> doctormo: anytime
[14:31] <hfz> hello
[14:31] <hfz> anybody here?
[14:31] <hfz> i need help on lp open id
[14:31] <nigel_nb> hfz, what is your issue?
[14:32] <hfz> this is the first time i'm experience it
[14:32] <hfz> when i want to use my open id to post comment in blogger, it says that my open id is not authorized/unauthorized open id
[14:32] <hfz> before this can
[14:36] <hfz> hello
[14:36] <hfz> anybody here?
[14:38] <bac> hi hfz
[14:39] <hfz> hi bac
[14:39] <hfz> need yr help
[14:39] <hfz> about my problem posted at the current log
[14:39] <bac> hfz, it may be that the blog site does not recognized launchpad as an openid provider
[14:39] <hfz> what?
[14:39] <hfz> before this i can post it as usual
[14:40] <bac> what site exactly?
[14:40] <hfz> blogger
[14:42] <nigel_nb> hfz, LP open ID integration seems to be broken
[14:43] <hfz> just now happen?
[14:43] <hfz> what's wrong with the integration?
[14:43] <hfz> that makes me weird is i can log in at lp website
[14:43] <hfz> even i can open my open id
[14:43] <hfz> but, still can't log in through blogger
[14:44] <bac> hfz: i am looking into it
[14:44] <hfz> ok
[14:46] <bac> hfz: i experienced the same problem trying to use LP openid at blogger.com.  i was, however, able to authenticate at livejournal.com
[14:46] <hfz> it might be a prob at blogger
[15:09] <bac> hfz: when was the last time you successfully logged in to blogger.com using launchpad.net as an openid provider?
[15:10] <hfz> didn't remember
[15:10] <hfz> passed few days ago
[15:18] <bac> hfz: we're looking into it.  nothing has changed on our side that would cause the problem.
[15:18] <hfz> ok
[15:19] <bac> hfz: do you get an error like: http://people.canonical.com/~bac/openid-blogger.png
[15:19] <hfz> yes
[17:14] <doctormo> Are there svg versions of the bug icons used in launchpad's ui?
[17:21] <bac> doctormo: there are.  but all of the images in the tree have copyright and aren't licensed for re-use.  you'd need to talk to someone, probably karl, if you wanted to use them.
[17:27] <doctormo> bac: Interesting, so someone implimenting launchpad would have to strip all the graphics out?
[17:27] <bac> doctormo: yes
[17:31] <doctormo> Facinating, I wonder why that was done for things like bug icons, but I supopse it's all about keeping the style of the thing unique
[17:32] <doctormo> In any way, I wonder if you have a sanitised branch with all that removed.
[17:32] <beuno> doctormo, we don't
[17:33] <doctormo> beuno: So launchpad is sort of kind of possible to get open source, but not actually in release?
[17:33] <beuno> doctormo, right
[17:33] <beuno> it was open sourced to allow people to contribute
[17:33] <beuno> but our focus isn't really other people deploying Launchpad
[17:34] <doctormo> !Forking is an important part of FOSS, checks and balances. Lesson 102.
[17:34] <beuno> sure, anyone can fork it
[17:34] <doctormo> beuno: but I can see where you've come to that conclusion.
[17:34] <beuno> but we don't want to invest in it
[17:34] <doctormo> beuno: Anyone can sanitise and then fork it.
[17:35] <maxb> I'm guessing Canonical's commercial subscriptions are a rather potent reason not to make it easy
[17:35] <beuno> maxb, commercial subscriptions don't really pay for... well... anything  :)
[17:35] <davidstrauss> For some reason, Launchpad thinks there is a conflict in this: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/38679967/r6NJAaENBgAFikHWDtg3Wm76Xpu.txt
[17:35] <davidstrauss> This is the merge request: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/38679967/r6NJAaENBgAFikHWDtg3Wm76Xpu.txt
[17:36] <beuno> the reason is more that if the information fragments across open source, it defeats the purpose of creating another hosting system
[17:36] <maxb> beuno: Huh. If it's not abotu protecting that revenue, I don't understand why Canonical don't let people run their own instances.
[17:36] <beuno> maxb, the above reason  ^
[17:36] <beuno> a lot of Launchpad's not talking to eachother is a lot of lost opportunities to fix problems
[17:36] <maxb> I'd love to run an instance for closed-source stuff in my office :-/
[17:36] <jamalta> doctormo: i think there's a few people thinking/working on a copyright-free branch of launchpad
[17:37] <davidstrauss> maxb: nothing stops you from doing so
[17:37] <maxb> davidstrauss: Actually, the Launchpad licence does stop me from doing so ... legally, anyway
[17:37] <doctormo> jamalta: You mean "totally copyleft" as it will still have copyrights on it.
[17:37] <davidstrauss> maxb: No, it does not.
[17:37] <davidstrauss> maxb: You're not allowed to use the branding
[17:38] <jamalta> doctormo: Huh? I mean a branch with all the copyrighted material stripped
[17:38] <davidstrauss> maxb: But that's no different from how Firefox is licensed
[17:38] <maxb> davidstrauss: Right.... but rebranding launchpad is a sufficiently arduous task that it makes it infeasible
[17:38] <doctormo> jamalta: Yes I know, but that would strip everything, even the open source stuff, since open source is copyrighted.
[17:38] <doctormo> jamalta: You mean "Strip the all rights reserved stuff"
[17:38] <jamalta> doctormo: well, right, :P
[17:39] <jamalta> doctormo: that's exactly what i meant, sorry
[17:39] <davidstrauss> Just to be clear, *all* the material is copyrighted. Applying the AGPL does nothing to remove copyright.
[17:39] <doctormo> davidstrauss: Firefox is slightly different in that they enforce it with trademark law, not with copyright (if I remember correctly)
[17:39] <davidstrauss> doctormo: that's correct
[17:39] <davidstrauss> doctormo: but the effect is the same
[17:40] <doctormo> Yes
[17:40] <maxb> Well, not really... I'm allowed to run my own copy of Firefox for actual work
[17:40] <davidstrauss> maxb: You're not allowed to build and distribute your own "Firefox"
[17:41] <davidstrauss> anymore than you're allowed to host your own "Launchpad" with Canonical's icons and branding
[17:42] <maxb> I can
[17:42] <maxb> oops
[17:43] <maxb> I can *use* an unmodified Firefox for private purposes. I can't *use* an unmodified Launchpad for private purposes
[17:43] <maxb> However similar the legal structures are, the net usefulness to me is very different
[17:45] <davidstrauss> maxb: OK
[18:24] <Italian_Plumber> so I commented on this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/502433
[18:25] <Italian_Plumber> Will it be usedful for me to dowonload and try the alpha3 release to see if the problem is fixed?
[18:26] <persia> You may find #ubuntu-bugs or #ubuntu-testing a better forum for this class of question.
[18:27] <Italian_Plumber> oh... sorry
[18:27] <persia> No problem, I just thought you'd get a better faster answer there :)
[18:31] <Italian_Plumber> cool.  Thanks!
[21:39] <Deaner> hi, I'm looking for help with switching administrative privs with someone who no longer works on a project
[21:40] <Deaner> the maintainer listed is out of contact with us: https://launchpad.net/pculture
[21:41] <Deaner> kfogel: hey, I see you're listed as a help manager
[21:41] <Deaner> or help desk manager
[21:43] <kfogel> Deaner: hey there.  Have you mailed feedback {at} launchpad.net?
[21:43] <kfogel> Deaner: we've run into this before; that's the best route to resolve it.
[22:27] <paki> hi at all
[22:27] <paki> i have a problem
[22:28] <paki> anyone help me?
[22:28] <paki> *please?
[22:29] <paki> i have created my PPA on launchpad
[22:29] <paki> but i cannot upload my py files
[22:30] <paki> how can I do to create file for upload my files?
[22:37] <maxb> paki: Your PPA page contains a link "(Read about uploading)" - have you read it?
[22:38] <paki> yes
[22:38] <paki> but i have py file
[22:39] <paki> and there isn't any config or make file
[22:40] <paki> one moment..i now explain..
[22:40] <paki> (excuse my english)
[22:40] <paki> i have problem with packing
[22:41] <paki> how can i do packing correctly??
[22:41] <maxb> What is it that you are packaging?
[22:42] <paki> if i try "debuild binary"
[22:43] <paki> error show in a terminal
[22:43] <paki> because i don't know how to set file in debian folder


[00:10] <minimal> effendy[m]: what about the systemd journal?
[04:40] <falcojr> I know minimal could only speak for Alpine, but the story is the same on Ubuntu. Cloud-init doesn't reboot on its own, nor does a standard Ubuntu image (including OVA images). One possible crude way to see if there's something external watching cloud-init is  grepping "/lib/systemd" for "cloud". There's about a dozen or so files that match, but it
[04:40] <falcojr> shouldn't be hard to wade those to see if there's another service waiting on one cloud-init's services to complete.
[07:57] <effendy[m]> Unfortunately I'm not finding anything relevant, just cloud-init related stuff. Unless the service somehow disappears afterwards.
[07:57] <effendy[m]> Rather daunting, I have to say. This blocks my whole automation process.
[12:19] <effendy[m]> falcojr: https://devicetests.com/stop-automatic-rebooting-ubuntu-22-04 This article seems to be contradicting what you're saying in regards to ubuntu cloud-images.
[12:20] <effendy[m]> But this does seem to be related to 'autoinstall' (so specific to Ubuntu).
[13:17] <falcojr> effendy[m]: Are you using an installer image? Whats the name of the image you're using?
[13:19] <effendy[m]> Just to be clear, I'm not saying that cloud-init itself is the issue here, I'm just challenging the assumption that cloudimages generally don't reboot or at least that this would be unusual with a relatively "default" configuration.
[13:19] <effendy[m]> This is the image I'm using: https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/jammy/current/ (the ova one)
[13:19] <falcojr> that's unfortunately a fairly misleading article. It's conflating cloud-init with subiquity, the Ubuntu server installer. When running the server installer, it will automatically reboot at the end of the process, but that's only when using the installer image, which is completely separate from cloud-init or a cloud image
[13:20] <effendy[m]> Yeah, actually, I thought of that too after reading it again :D
[13:20] <effendy[m]> And I'm not sure 'autoinstaller' has anything to do anymore at this stage, given that the cloud-images is an already installed operating system
[13:21] <minimal> effendy[m]: the "systemd[1]: Reloading." message you mentioned earlier is systemd *reloading* its config, not systemd rebooting...
[13:22] <effendy[m]> I've tried a previous image from May, but Canonical has retroactively changed things. It's quite surprising. The image from 24 May doesn't exist anymore, there's one from 31 May only. And funnily enough the ssh server isn't starting anymore, because the host keys aren't set up! Cloud-init also doesn't seem be to running at all (this is the first stage with packer).
[13:23] <effendy[m]> minimal: I know. I simply pasted the log messages around that time where the system was shutting down.
[13:23] <minimal> effendy[m]: ok but when you showed that message you said "That's the start of the rebooting process"
[13:23] <effendy[m]> I still haven't found out a solution to understand what is rebooting it, I've installed auditd, but I'm only following the executables (as in halt, poweroff, reboot, etc.)
[13:23] <effendy[m]> minimal: ...
[13:24] <effendy[m]> It is. It is in the proximity.
[13:24] <effendy[m]> Never mind. Now it's clear, I hope.
[13:24] <minimal> effendy[m]: I.m being precise - a message showing systemd reloading its config is not a sign of systemd rebooting
[13:24] <effendy[m]> Ok.
[13:24] <minimal> have you tried asking for help in the ubuntu channel?
[13:24] <effendy[m]> I did. No one is answering :) So I'm bothering you.
[13:25] <minimal> well from what you've said it doesn't sound like a cloud-init issue but rather something else relating to the ubuntu cloud images
[13:25] <effendy[m]> Basically I've never got a question related to cloud-init answered on Ubuntu. Ever. And I did try asking several times.
[13:25] <effendy[m]> Yes, ok. Then I'll leave it at that I guess.
[13:26] <falcojr> Here? We've answered your questions. You just don't like the answers :D
[13:26] <minimal> effendy[m]: but it is not (directly) related to cloud-init from the information you've provided
[13:26] <effendy[m]> falcojr: I was talking about the Ubuntu channel.
[13:27] <minimal> There's no ubuntu cloud channel afaik
[13:27] <falcojr> #ubuntu-server
[13:27] <effendy[m]> It is related at least to the implementation of Canonical of cloud-init, given that, when cloud-init doesn't start, the VM isn't rebooting.
[13:27] <falcojr> 'I'm just challenging the assumption that cloudimages generally don't reboot or at least that this would be unusual with a relatively "default" configuration.' Is there anything I can do to convince you? I'm a Canonical employee and have been booting cloud images for years on every major cloud
[13:27] <effendy[m]> So it's pretty close anyway. But yes, I understand your point.
[13:28] <effendy[m]> Then maybe it's a vSphere-related issue... Yeah, ok, I get it.
[13:28] <minimal> effendy[m]: you downloaded the images from cloud-images.ubuntu.com? The images I see there are Ubuntu Server, and so that's with subiquity
[13:29] <effendy[m]> Yes, from there. I didn't know subiquity played a role here.
[13:29] <falcojr> minimal: our cloud images don't have subiquity
[13:29] <effendy[m]> Right...
[13:30] <minimal> falcojr: I thought all ubuntu server images had subiquity
[13:30] <effendy[m]> Subiquity runs only when you install the operating system from the start, right? With the installer and all that?
[13:30] <minimal> rather than any ubuntu (non-server) images
[13:30] <falcojr> effendy[m]: right, it's the name of the server installer
[13:31] <falcojr> minimal: no, it's the separate installer image
[13:31] <minimal> ah ok
[13:31] <effendy[m]> falcojr: so 'autoinstaller' would also make no difference in the context of cloud-images, I assume.
[13:32] <falcojr> effendy[m]: correct, they don't contain the installer
[13:34] <effendy[m]> When I built templates starting from the beginning, I didn't have this issue, the VM wouldn't reboot. And I used autoinstaller. But cloud-images, are of course, much more convenient.
[13:34] <effendy[m]> Well, ok, I'll try to figure it somehow, but I'm not sure how, I'll probably have to find a different setup altogether, 'cause there's nothing relevant out there.
[13:35] <minimal> like any problem it generally cannot be fixed until we know what the problem/what is causing the problem actually is
[13:36] <minimal> perhaps try asking on ubuntu-server channel as that is specific to the server release?
[13:37] <effendy[m]> ...
[13:37] <effendy[m]> I'm not sure if you just read between lines and not the lines themselves :D But I'll leave it it that :)
[13:37] <effendy[m]> Thanks.
[13:39] <minimal> I'm trying to help but it sounds like you don't want it so I'll leave it at that
[13:44] <effendy[m]> No, you're trying to superficially get the gist of the problem. And I understand that, you don't owe me anything, you're doing this freely, but it's not great to have to have to answer the exact same questions for which I've been giving answers already. But really, I don't want to argue, I get it, as I said, you don't owe me anything. It's ok.
[13:52] <minimal> if your "if you just read between the lines" is referring to me suggesting that you ask on the ubnutu-server channel, you previously mentioned asking on the ubnutu channel but I don't remember you ever mentioned asking already on the ubnutu-server channel
[13:53] <minimal> I managed to mistype ubuntu the same way 3 times, impressive :-)
[13:55] <effendy[m]> I'm also referring to our discussion yesterday :D But again, I don't want to have a go at anymore. The point is, yes, I've reached a sort of dead end and I understand you cannot help me further. If I do come up with a solution, I'll leave a message here, in case anyone was wondering what was going on (I bet everyone is waiting impatiently for one)
[13:59] <effendy[m]> at anyone* :)
[14:15] <effendy[m]> A different/unrelated question: is the syntax that is injected in netplan by the cloud-init network configuration the responsibility of the Ubuntu developers or that of the cloud-init ones?
[14:15] <effendy[m]> By default, cloud-init  enters deprecated syntax related to routes, i.e. 'gateway4'.
[14:16] <falcojr> effendy[m]: that would be cloud-init. That has been updated in a recent release. Let me check where
[14:22] <effendy[m]> I think I might have found something.
[14:23] <effendy[m]> look into /var/log/vmware-imc/toolsDeployPkg.log, I've come across the following:
[14:23] <effendy[m]> sSkipReboot: 'false', forceSkipReboot 'false'.
[14:23] <effendy[m]> Do not trigger reboot if cloud-init is executing.
[14:23] <effendy[m]> Command to exec : '/usr/bin/cloud-init'.
[14:24] <effendy[m]> It then acknowledges a few times that cloud-init is running until cloud-init stops. Unbelievable :)
[14:24] <falcojr> re: netplan. https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1794 , if you're on 23.1 or greater, you shouldn't be seeing it. If so, that might be a bug
[14:24] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Pull 1794 in canonical/cloud-init "Netplan deprecated keys (SC-1050)" [Merged]
[14:24] <effendy[m]>  Timed out waiting for cloud-init execution done.
[14:24] <effendy[m]> Ran DeployPkg_DeployPackageFromFile successfully
[14:25] <effendy[m]> then it says 'Trigger reboot', 'rebooting' etc.
[14:27] <falcojr> not super knowledgeable about VMWare, but I'm assuming that log is from VMWare tooling?
[14:28] <effendy[m]> Yeah, it seems to be related to the vm tools/guest agent/whatever.
[14:28] <effendy[m]> Now I'm trying to figure out how to stop the madness :D
[14:30] <falcojr> nice...at least it gets you going in the right direction
[14:32] <effendy[m]> Yeah, well... the documentation related to this seems non-existent. But at least, yes, I'm looking in the right direction.
[14:32] <effendy[m]> Thanks for the discussion. It did help, despite my being (understandably) upset :D
[14:42] <minimal> https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/90331
[14:42] <minimal> "Linux virtual machine is usually rebooted at the end of the Perl based customization. If cloud-init is still running by the time of rebooting happens, it will be terminated and fail to apply user data to virtual machine. To avoid such scenario, from VMware Tools version 12.1.5, the Perl based customization will not reboot virtual machine until it detects cloud-init execution has finished or fails to finish before timeout, this is to make sure
[14:42] <minimal> cloud-init can load and apply user data completely without interrupted by rebooting triggered by Perl based customization."
[14:55] <effendy[m]> Yes, I've just come across this too. I'm trying to see if disable_vmware_customization directive in cloud.cfg works :)
[15:35] <effendy[m]> What is the difference between cloud-init GOS and cloud-init GOSC?
[15:35] <effendy[m]> disable_vmware_customization set to false means GOS, true means GOSC it seems.
[17:22] <effendy[m]> I have a different issue now which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. This works sometimes, but other times it doesn't. I stop the ssh server during the packer template once (because I'm fixing the reboot problem for the second stage). I'm using bootcmd with the following command: - [ cloud-init-per, once, systemctl, stop, ssh ]
[17:22] <effendy[m]> However cloud-init complains about not being able to run bootcmd module returning 127.
[17:22] <effendy[m]> cloud-init-per doesn't seem to be available at that stage or something to that effect, I'm not sure.
[17:25] <effendy[m]> Ah, I think cloud-init-per is not the issue, but 'systemctl' itself might not be available at that stage.
[17:26] <effendy[m]> (although sometimes it is, which is just great :) )
[18:01] <minimal> effendy[m]: wouldn't it be the other way around? disable_vmware_customization=false would mean GOSC (i.e. *do* customisation)?
[18:01] <minimal> as you are NOT disabling the customisation
[18:41] <effendy[m]> This is Photon OS, vmware's operating system.
[18:41] <effendy[m]> well, linux distribution.
[18:42] <effendy[m]> To be honest, I still don't really understand what the setting is doing :D
[18:43] <effendy[m]> Both provisioning with cloud-init and with vmtools perl script guest os customisation (or whatever is called) presuppose this to be set to 'false' :)
[18:46] <minimal> yes, disable=flase means enabled, which matches with the quote I posted earlier regarding Perl based customisation
[18:52] <effendy[m]> Means 'enabled' for what?
[18:53] <effendy[m]> I see that the default is 'true', according to cloud-init documentation related to OVF: https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/22.1_a/topics/datasources/ovf.html
[18:53] <effendy[m]> I guess I don't really understand what 'vmware_customization' actually means.
[18:54] <minimal> means vmware customisation is enabled, whatever that may be
[18:54] <minimal> that's a VMware matter though
[18:55] <minimal> btw are you aware that there is also a VMware DataSource for cloud-init, separate from the OVF one?
[18:55] <minimal> and that, briefly, mentions this setting
[18:58] <effendy[m]> Yes. I tried that one. In the vmware documentation (https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/59557) it says that I should be using VMware instead of OVF for the cloud-init version higher than 23.1 (which is my case). When I tried it I there was nothing in user-data. On the other hand, the network settings (which I'm guessing belongs to meta-data) did work. The netplan settings were there (although they didn't override the previous settings for
[18:58] <effendy[m]> some reason, so I also had the template's IP somehow)
[19:01] <minimal> VMware themselves have done a lot of the work on the cloud-init VMware datasource
[19:02] <effendy[m]> I used the VMware datasource when I installed the operating system from scratch (starting with grub, autoinstall/subiquity, whatever). And that worked ok. It's just that it took way too long. The longest part was the compulsory updating of the security packages.
[19:03] <effendy[m]> Then I switched to OVF, because VMware didn't work with the OVA/OVF cloudimage/templates.
[19:03] <effendy[m]> I simply adapted the datasource to my needs, it wasn't a choice for me.
[19:03] <minimal> did you see this commit? https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/commit/f5431e50a3b29db0ee044e7fa8a6a279d6cb14f7
[19:03] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Commit f5431e5 in canonical/cloud-init "VMware: Move Guest Customization transport from OVF to VMware (#1573)"
[19:04] <effendy[m]> (I mean switching to a different datasource wasn't, switching the cloudimages, of course, was)
[19:06] <effendy[m]> No, I didn't. I wonder if this applies to a newer version of vSphere also. I in their documentation that if you wanted to switch to 'pure' cloud-init, you'd need vSphere version 7.0 Update 3 (or something like that), which we don't have yet unfortunately. Maybe an upgrading would be beneficial.
[19:07] <effendy[m]> does 'cloud-init clean' reset /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg settings?
[19:07] <effendy[m]> I've just realised that I'm running this after I add the disable_vmware_customization directive to cloud.cfg.
[19:08] <minimal> that commit was made by VMware in November last year which was 1 day *after* cloud-init 22.4 was released and so the next release was 23.1 (which matches with that VMware doc saying to use VMware DS with c-i >= 23.1)
[19:09] <minimal> cloud.cfg is created from cloud.cfg.tmpl but that only happens when cloud-init is packaged (by distro)
[19:09] <minimal> it is a "build time" thing, not a run-time thing
[19:10] <effendy[m]> I'm not challenging the fact VMware should be used as a datasource, but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to solve this issue, given that, in my case, only OVF seems to be population user-data. With VMware there's nothing in user-data.
[19:11] <minimal> sounds like something to take up with VMware as they author both VMware/VSphere and the cloud-init VMware datasource
[19:11] <minimal> pr raise a cloud-init Issue specific to the VMware datasource and "ping" one of the VMware guys in the Issue
[19:11] <minimal> s/pr/or/
[19:12] <effendy[m]> Yeah, I've already written on their forum in relation to how to disable that reboot. Maybe someone answers there :)
[19:12] <minimal> try my 2nd suggestion?
[19:13] <effendy[m]> I've written them today. I'll wait a while. I'm not sure how I can convince anyone from cloudinit at this stage in regards to this issue, given that I'm not using the latest version of vSphere and... now I'd really understand how this would be particular to my setup.
[19:13] <effendy[m]> Ah, ok, I see what you mean.
[19:14] <effendy[m]> Yeah, maybe I'll do that too. I'll wait a little bit, I'll test things out and see what will happen.
[19:14] <minimal> if you look at the history of the c-i VMware datasource you'll see the Github names of several Vmware staff who work on the VMware datasource
[19:15] <minimal> many of the cloud-init datasources are written by the particular hypervisor/cloud vendors themselves rather than by Canonical or 3rd party individuals
[19:33] <effendy[m]> Yes, I might do that :)
[19:34] <minimal> effendy[m]: looking at the commit history for c-i's OVF datasource many of the changes there also come from VMware people
[19:34] <effendy[m]> When you say 'c-i', what you are refering to?
[19:35] <minimal> so as those are VMware staff who develop cloud-init's OVF and VMware datasources I'd expect those would be *exactly* the people to discuss your issues with
[19:35] <minimal> sorry, c-i is a abbreviation for cloud-init
[19:35] <effendy[m]> ah, ok :)
[19:35] <effendy[m]> Yes, it makes sense, of course.
[19:36] <effendy[m]> Thanks for pointing this out.
[19:38] <minimal> I never understand the whole VMware ESX/ESXi/VSphere/Fusion product line the OVF vs VMware c-i datasources, was confusing where trying to script OS image creation without actually having any VMware stuff hands-on to figure stuff out lol
[19:38] <minimal> s/where/when/
[19:59] <minimal> effendy[m]: BTW the AltCloud also mentions its use for Vsphere....
[19:59] <minimal> s/AltCloud/cloud-init AltCloud datasource/
[20:00] <minimal> so that's a 3rd option :-)
[20:14] <effendy[m]> I don't like vSphere that much. I use what there is. I'd prefer proxmox to be honest, although their API is even worse when it comes to cloud-init, which you have to already have at the ready somehow as a snippet (so copying it from ssh etc.  And I'll try to live for a while like that. It actually seems to be working. The solution horrifies me, but until I get more information, I'll make do.
[23:07] <effendy[m]> returned*


[07:53] <slvn_> Hi,
[07:54] <slvn_> Just want to let you know that I have publish a few games, native game based on sdl2
[07:55] <slvn_> so there are directly using mirclient, through sdl2, and they can be a way to test mir
[07:55] <slvn_> (indeed, it seemed one app have made mir crashed,  when disconnecting)
[07:56] <slvn_> so if you want to try, here's the link : https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.ubuntu.developer.1bsyl.cartes
[08:11] <gatobaubau> slvn_, hehe i have almost all of them installed :))
[08:11] <gatobaubau> slvn_, negative space is really nice
[08:12] <slvn_> thanks, great you enjoyed !
[08:13] <gatobaubau> slvn_, was it hard to port your games to ubuntu phone? i you also have android versions
[08:13] <slvn_> usually people gives up quickly with negative space :)
[08:13] <gatobaubau> they run out of ink )))
[08:14] <slvn_> not really hard to port .. actually there were developed first under ubuntu and android
[08:14] <slvn_> there was a few issue with mir ... for orientation .. and couples of bugs..
[08:15] <slvn_> and, since I use sdl2, I can re-use all the code for all platforms
[08:18] <slvn_> gatobaubau, I was told then when quitting my app, sometime mir crashed ... maybe you could double check ... because I have no ubuntu-deice :D
[08:20] <gatobaubau> slvn_, i never had any problems with your apps, i'll check to logs later :P just in case
[08:48] <anpok> slvn_: hm mir as in the unity8 nested server? or unity-system-compostior? or really a shutdown crash of the application?
[08:49] <slvn_> I just copy paste, since it's short ...
[08:49] <slvn_>  qtmir.mir: SessionListener::stopping - this= SessionListener(0xb194a134) session= 0x5f935c
[08:49] <slvn_>  terminate called after throwing an instance of 'boost::exception_detail::clone_impl<boost::exception_detail::error_info_injector<std::runtime_error> >'
[08:49] <slvn_>    what():  Failure sending input event : Unknown channel provided
[08:49] <slvn_> ()
[08:50] <slvn_> to be confirmed ...
[08:51] <anpok> ah
[08:52] <anpok> this is actually possible..  and if not handled by the input dispatcher the server would be affected
[08:52] <anpok> *plausible
[08:53] <anpok> hm since qtmir has its own we need to fix that there too
[09:00] <slvn_> .. don't really understand this :) ... but, maybe one should double check if this really happens with an official version ... my app were a use-case to reproduce this ..
[09:02] <anpok> well i guess you need to hit the right point in time to trigger the problem.. looking at the code.. it is caused by the fact that the input communication is done in a separate thread and keeps track of active surfaces..
[09:02] <anpok> and in the case described the component knows that the surface is already gone, before it gets the request to dispatch the event..
[09:04] <anpok> hmm so I either change the way the input channels of surfaces are tracked and kept alive a little longer or we fix the caller to handle the case..
[09:05] <anpok> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1521529
[09:06] <anpok> one of things that could be reworked.. the abstraction around InputChannel is still kind of odd becaue we use the android input framework for that..
[12:15] <alan_g> sometimes I see line of code that makes me wonder...
[12:15] <alan_g> if (write(p.write_fd(), "a", 1)) {}
[12:25] <mcphail> write returns non-zero on error and success, doesn't it?
[12:25]  * mcphail doesn't have "man" installed on this machine
[12:36] <alan_g> Yes, but is this really the clearest way to ignore the return code.
[13:00] <mcphail> Those curly brackets were actually empty? Probably meant to check for success but couldn't understand why write() was still returning true on failure and deleted the block.
[16:10] <slvn_>   /join #ubuntu-touch
[17:07] <k1l> is there a daily iso for testing unity8+MIR?
[17:08] <k1l> the desktop-next daily-live is gone, but that is what most wiki pages link to
[17:12] <alan_g> k1l: I don't think so (we don't create/publish ISOs etc around here, just churn the code). There is a package: unity8-desktop-session-mir - does that help?
[17:13] <k1l> i just wanted to give it a test run to see what the state is, while not touching my actual system.
[17:14] <k1l> (just tested a fedora rawhide iso which should have wayland as default now but that didnt boot to the login/desktop so i was curious what the MIR/unity is doing on my thinkpad hardware)
[17:17] <alan_g> I guess you could boot a vanilla ISO, and install unity8-desktop-session-mir before switching sessions.
[17:17] <k1l> will try that, thanks


[01:13] <bluesabre> ochosi: that looks much better, thanks!
[06:29] <ochosi> morning flocculant
[06:30] <flocculant> morning ochosi
[06:30] <ochosi> in case you haven't been pinged about that, bluesabre is working on some catfish improvements we'd like to get into wily
[06:30] <flocculant> I've seen the chat :)
[06:31] <flocculant> and I guessed the rest :p
[06:31] <ochosi> those changes aren't under the hood as far as i can see, so no regression potential
[06:31] <ochosi> but you can still check it out if you want
[06:31] <flocculant> ok
[06:31] <flocculant> always best I think
[06:32] <ochosi> it's here: https://code.launchpad.net/~catfish-search/catfish-search/gtk316-csd
[06:32] <ochosi> basically you have to bzr branch it, then apt-get build-dep it, and then ./configure && make && sudo make install
[06:32] <flocculant> ta - I'll grab that later today
[06:32] <ochosi> note that some things in the sidebar aren't ready yet
[06:32] <ochosi> and ideally you'll have greybird from the daily PPA
[06:32] <flocculant> ok
[06:33] <ochosi> otherwise some menuitems look funky :)
[06:33] <flocculant> yea - have that
[06:34] <ochosi> alrighty, and if you see slicky, feel free to remind him about the meeting (i won't be around during the day), would be good to have one around FF
[06:34] <ochosi> (pinged him last night, but i think he sometimes signs on from webirc)
[06:34] <flocculant> yea - iirc he's on vacation
[06:35] <ochosi> oh ok
[06:35] <ochosi> in that case we should probably skip him in the meeting list
[06:35] <ochosi> humm, i guess pleia2 is also travelling
[06:36] <ochosi> after those two it'd be your turn – wanna jump in and schedule one?
[06:36] <flocculant> ok - I'll schedule today for the end of the week
[06:36] <ochosi> thanks a bunch!
[06:36] <flocculant> actually works out ok - next week I'm off till Friday
[06:36] <flocculant> and Beta 1 ...
[06:36] <ochosi> yeah
[06:38] <ochosi> anyhow, not sure there are important decisions creeping up, but around FF and B1 it's always good to schedule a meeting
[06:38] <flocculant> I'll try for a time all the release team are available
[06:38] <ochosi> okay
[06:38] <flocculant> so I'm ok all day - if you and bluesabre can tell me the best time on Friday
[06:38] <flocculant> if possible
[06:39] <ochosi> i guess for bluesabre it's around 10-11UTC or from 22UTC
[06:43]  * ochosi out
[06:43] <flocculant> bluesabre: ping me with an exact time for friday - if you want to - do the www.timeanddate.com thing and I'll use that
[06:44] <flocculant> for 21st August
[09:58] <bluesabre> flocculant: 10-11UTC would be guaranteed I could make it
[09:59] <pleia2> knome: thanks for replying to that email, I'm still not sure what they want
[10:05] <pleia2> ochosi: yeah, not really "home" properly until thursday morning, then I'm off again on august 28th for another week
[10:07] <knome> pleia2, no problem
[10:11] <bluesabre> flocculant: for catfish, at this point, the only thing that is not working (to my knowledge) is the custom date range... everything else should be functional
[10:13] <bluesabre> oh, and it dies if the search comes across a psd file... that seems to be a regression in gtk, but I'll try to work around that
[10:18] <knome> :D :D
[10:18] <knome> so catfish isn't very useful for me atm
[10:37] <bluesabre> :)
[10:38] <bluesabre> gdk-pixbuf-error-quark: Couldn't recognize the image file format for file '/home/bluesabre/watermarktest.psd' (3)
[10:38] <bluesabre> /usr/local/bin/catfish: line 2: 22497 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) python3 /usr/local/share/catfish/bin/catfish.py "$@"
[10:38] <bluesabre> that's what happens
[10:38] <bluesabre> "what is this, oh crap! *die*"
[10:38] <knome> heh, yeah...
[10:39] <knome> i'd understand if it was software that tried to SHOW the file..
[10:40] <bluesabre> catfish creates thumbnails as it searchs (for the preview view), so that's probably what it is
[10:40] <knome> right..
[10:40] <knome> thumbnails for many of my PDFs wouldn't be too useful
[10:40] <knome> that's what filenames are
[10:40] <knome> +for
[10:40] <bluesabre> it only thumbnails images
[10:41] <bluesabre> image/* mimetypes
[10:41] <knome> client_flyer_hxw_2015_cmyk.psd
[10:41] <knome> or sth
[10:41] <bluesabre> yeah
[10:41] <bluesabre> should be an easy fix
[10:41] <knome> tells a lot more than a small preview of that ^
[10:41] <bluesabre> just gotta dig around the code :)
[10:42] <bluesabre> but, its too early now, back to bed for me
[10:42] <bluesabre> bbl
[10:42] <knome> sleep tight
[10:57] <slickymasterWork> knome, I noticed that krytarik made a -docs MP
[10:57] <slickymasterWork> did you review it?
[10:58] <knome> yes and no
[10:58] <knome> it looks fine to me
[11:00] <slickymasterWork> 'yes and no'. any concerns?
[11:00] <knome> not really
[11:00] <knome> maybe i should recheck it
[11:01] <knome> the "no" part is that i don't understand Standards-Version :P
[11:01] <knome> but i'm sure it's fine
[11:02] <slickymasterWork> ok, will you deal with it then? or do you want me to?
[11:02] <knome> i'm about to merge it
[11:03] <slickymasterWork> ok, thanks
[11:03] <knome> done
[11:03] <slickymasterWork> ñeither Dylan or Stéphane, answer the ubiquity mail
[11:03] <slickymasterWork> thanks
[11:03] <knome> well, pushing it now
[11:03] <knome> yeah... :/
[11:04] <knome> i'm wondering if we should take it to the TB or sth
[11:04] <slickymasterWork> what's TB?
[11:04] <knome> otoh, i'd really like their (dylan+stephane) opinion on it more than anybody elses
[11:04] <knome> technical board
[11:06] <slickymasterWork> I'll resend it today. it might be laying around their inboxes, forgotten
[11:06] <knome> yep
[11:07] <knome> or in trash...
[11:07] <knome> (not meaning they don't care, but if they use email the same way i do...)
[12:26] <flocculant> bluesabre: ok - set for 10:00UTC Friday
[12:31] <flocculant> bluesabre: the catfish appeared to want me to install python-pexpect
[12:33] <flocculant> mmm - not sure this catfish is what I'm expecting then ...
[12:53] <knome> flocculant, slickymasterWork: what's your stance about the poll in the installer slideshow?
[12:53] <knome> that work item seems to be stale, and nobody has picked it up
[12:54] <knome> after thinking about it myself, i'm not too excited about it atm
[12:56] <flocculant> well
[12:57] <flocculant> last poll done by team is stuck in the doldrums - so not seeing any point in another one
[12:57] <knome> yes, we should process that one too
[12:59] <flocculant> yep
[13:00] <knome> http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-calendar
[13:00] <knome> for those who are interested
[13:02] <flocculant> knome: I hope that is some odd timezone ...
[13:02] <knome> utc
[13:02] <knome> hmm
[13:02] <flocculant> not doing a meeting at 7am ever
[13:02] <knome> oops.
[13:02] <flocculant> :p
[13:03] <knome> my bad, fixed
[13:03] <flocculant> I did need to triple check
[13:07] <flocculant> knome: also - useful to not need extra bookmark :)
[13:07] <knome> figured
[13:18] <knome> landed some visual updates for the tracker
[13:19] <flocculant> not an ellipse amongst them - so I can see it
[13:19] <knome> ;)
[13:22] <knome> the burndown tells me there isn't too much time before beta 1
[13:24] <flocculant> indeed
[13:25] <flocculant> burndown tells me people keep adding stuff :)
[13:25] <knome> that was me
[13:25] <knome> i basically split one work item to two
[13:25] <knome> because the other half got done today
[13:26] <knome> the good thing is that now the other half is a bitesize item
[13:26] <flocculant> I meant more generally
[13:26] <knome> heh, yeah
[13:27] <knome> the thing is that we really began using the blueprints for tracking after the old tracker was dead for a week+
[13:27] <knome> that is, after the gap in the burndown
[13:27] <knome> hope next cycle is smoother than ever regarding that
[13:28] <knome> activating the new cycle in this tracker is just adding a row in a DB too
[13:28] <knome> and no need to get the blueprints approved
[13:28] <flocculant> oh awesome :)
[13:29] <knome> and tbe, we can even start tracking before the cycle starts
[13:29] <knome> then simply switch to the new cycle when it has started
[13:30] <flocculant> possibly a useful thing
[13:30] <knome> yes and no
[13:30] <knome> no because there likely isn't much to track :P
[13:30] <knome> and also because i don't think we want to show pre-cycle data
[13:31] <knome> but... yeah, the transition is going to be easy nonetheless
[13:31] <flocculant> yep
[13:31] <flocculant> biab
[13:31] <knome> hf, i might be gone when you get back
[14:09] <slickymasterWork> damn flocculant, another meeting I won't be able to attend :P
[14:09] <slickymasterWork> I'm leaving to Lisbon Wednesday evening (work related) and will just return Sunday night
[14:10] <slickymasterWork> I agree with you both, regarding the poll
[14:10] <slickymasterWork> flocculant knome ^^^
[14:19] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: sorry and all that
[14:23] <knome> i dropped the item
[14:24] <knome> and i'm thinking whether we should just drop the wiki data mining, since the meetings are visible on the calendar page
[14:25] <flocculant> I think I'll be dropping automated package testing after this cycle
[14:25] <knome> isn't there some movement regarding that during this cycle?
[14:25] <flocculant> that's just written down - then marked as postponed
[14:25] <knome> the jenkins instance for flavors or sht
[14:25] <knome> *sth
[14:26] <flocculant> knome: no - they've been looking at jenkins and image smoketests
[14:26] <flocculant> different things
[14:26] <knome> aha
[14:26] <knome> but isn't smoketests automatic too?
[14:26] <knome> i mean, it's part of the image
[14:26] <knome> boy, bad wording
[14:26] <flocculant> not currently
[14:26] <knome> right...
[14:26] <knome> would it be with the jenkins instance?
[14:26] <flocculant> yes
[14:26] <knome> mhm
[14:27] <flocculant> but - they are different things :)
[14:27] <knome> sure
[14:27] <knome> what ELSE automatic testing are we looking at then?
[14:27] <knome> for packages?
[14:27] <flocculant> yea
[14:27] <knome> right
[14:27] <flocculant> but gtk2/3 issue with that always
[14:28] <slickymasterWork> give a few minutes guys
[14:28] <flocculant> and even if we make them work - that doesn't mean there would be anywhere canonical to do them
[14:28] <slickymasterWork> headquarters on the phone.... nagging
[14:29] <flocculant> so while gtk2/3 - not really a point in even thinking about that
[14:29] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: didn't know you were married :p
[14:30] <flocculant> not sure there is much point in "Exploratory testing information to testers via ML" this late in cycle either
[14:31] <flocculant> we might be better served me doing a full-on "QA articles for xubuntu.org" about that whole thing between now and xx
[14:33] <knome> mhm, maybe
[14:33] <knome> and for that work item, it would be more useful if it was split into several items clearly pinpointing the subject of the articles
[14:33] <flocculant> or blog is mailed to list for testers
[14:34] <flocculant> knome: yea for sure - except no telling what's likely until it happens
[14:34] <knome> we have a transition in the works - to make cycle tags their own taxonomy - after that, using tags will be much clearer
[14:34] <knome> in the sense that they actually work as tags
[14:35] <flocculant> right
[14:35] <knome> i say this because then we can create all kinds of custom "searches" for people
[14:35] <flocculant> sort of seen those discussion in here off and on
[14:35] <knome> not just tag with "QA" but something more specific
[14:35] <knome> yep
[14:35] <knome> it's basically done, now i need to finalize that and some other stuff, and let IS push that to production
[14:36] <flocculant> nice
[14:43] <knome_tests> shiny, this works too
[14:44] <flocculant> is it like knome_tests polish?
[14:45] <knome> huh?
[14:45] <knome> :)
[14:45] <knome> see the tracker
[14:45] <flocculant> :)
[14:45] <knome> going to improve the discussion tab with this stuff...
[14:45] <knome> hozzah
[14:46] <knome> you can even change the tab
[14:46] <knome> and come back
[14:46] <tracker1> :)
[14:46] <knome> maybe slimy likes that feature
[14:46] <knome> one browser tab at work for all xubuntu stuff
[14:47] <flocculant> :)
[14:49] <knome> i'll improve/merge that later
[14:49] <knome> i'll likely drop the heading for that tab, and do some optimizations
[14:49] <knome> like make sure there is no double scrollbars by making sure the iframe fits the browser window
[14:50] <knome> maybe even go as far as add a stylesheet for the document inside the iframe - to change the font size for the webchat
[14:52] <knome> another test...
[14:52] <knome> nice
[14:57] <flocculant> I knew I would come across unreadable captchas
[14:57] <knome> :D
[14:57] <knome> there are some for sure
[14:57] <flocculant> yea
[14:58] <flocculant> the pics of numbers are ok
[14:58] <knome> anyway, we have friends coming over (again)
[14:58] <flocculant> the recopied copy of a copied copy word ones are awful :D
[14:58] <flocculant> okey doke - cya :)
[14:58] <knome> will be back later - have fun meanwhile :)
[15:30] <slickymasterWork> flocculant, my bosses, apparently, think that I ought to be married with job, at least :P
[15:32] <flocculant> :)
[15:41] <slickymasterWork> some return after two weeks vacation :P
[15:52] <flocculant> heh
[16:04] <flocculant> bluesabre: is there anything that we have in PPA which would be useful to
[16:04] <flocculant> A - get testers looking at?
[16:05] <flocculant> B - get testers to add to beta1 next week?
[16:05] <flocculant> trying to get all my cards in a row so I can set them up as I am away from mid morning Monday to late Thursday next week
[16:05] <flocculant> which isn't best timing
[16:07] <flocculant> that's pretty damn quick :D
[20:41] <ochosi> hey jjfrv8
[20:41] <ochosi> sorry haven't really had time yet to review the thunar docs
[20:41] <ochosi> been quite busy lately on the personal level
[20:45] <jjfrv8> ochosi, no worries
[20:49] <Unit193> Oh good!  I was still wondering what I got out of it! :---D
[20:49] <Unit193> dkessel, krytarik: Congrats.
[20:49] <Unit193> ochosi: Oh, and +1 to krytarik. :P
[20:49] <krytarik> Thanks! :D
[20:49] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i forgot to mention: if your name is Unit193 you get nothing... sorry!
[20:50] <ochosi> krytarik: conga-rats!
[20:50] <krytarik> :)
[20:50] <ochosi> dkessel: conga-rats to you too!
[20:50] <Unit193> Ooooh!
[21:10] <knome> hey everybody!
[21:10] <knome> just one thing i want to tell you
[21:10] <knome> for background information, i'm working as a beta tester for a closed-source website
[21:11] <knome> i'm so happy we have this open communication, and that it works so well
[21:11] <knome> thanks, we're fantastic!
[21:24] <ochosi> :)
[21:24] <ochosi> and yay, +1
[21:24] <ochosi> time to head to bed, night everyone!
[21:26] <knome> nighty ochosi
[21:26] <knome> well, simon, really!
[21:26] <knome> :)
[22:08] <bluesabre> hey pasi
[22:08] <bluesabre> good teamwork around here
[22:08] <bluesabre> :D
[22:10] <knome> hey sean
[22:11] <bluesabre> how's it going?
[22:11] <knome> not too bad
[22:11] <knome> just tweaked the tracker a bit more
[22:12] <bluesabre> :)
[22:12] <knome> now calendar/irc iframes are only loaded when needed
[22:12] <knome> and the irc frame is squeezed to fit the window
[22:12] <bluesabre> looks pretty
[22:14] <bluesabre> this is so much nicer than crawling blueprints
[22:15] <knome> isn't it ;)
[22:51] <krytarik> knome: "[xubuntu-doc] Link to the PDF files from the documentation: INPROGRESS" - are you still planning to try an alternative approach there, or should we just assign it to me, and set it to "DONE"?
[22:55] <knome> we can assign it to you and get "something" done
[22:55] <knome> talk with slickyma1ter about what he wants regarding that, and i'll be fine with what you come up with
[22:58] <knome> and thanks for taking care :)
[23:01] <krytarik> Well, it *is* already done.
[23:07] <krytarik> knome: More specifically, you introduced it here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/wily/revision/405#scripts/pdf-create.sh
[23:08] <knome> oh, hah, right
[23:08] <knome> let me see that


[01:23] <mpmc> fossfreedom: upgraded to 18.04 from 17.10 - no major problems. Chromium barfed at bad dns config, but deleting the old network info & using auto-ethernet fixed it. Only other issue was the lock screen reset to default. But otherwise, good job to all involved!
[07:57] <fossfreedom> mpmc, much appreciated with the feedback. cheers
[11:48] <mpmc> fossfreedom: I spoke too soon, did an update and now have some weird screen tearing on window movement.
[16:04] <fossfreedom> mpmc, please run ubuntu-bug mutter and report the issue on launchpad
[16:56] <mpmc> fossfreedom: I figured it out, it was a radeon driver update causing the glitches, enabling tearfree solved it. :)
[16:57] <fossfreedom> mpmc, excellent - be aware, 18.04 is in the middle of a massive graphics update - it is running into issues at the moment - so it may be a bumpy ride for a while


[02:25] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Fridge:: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 532 @ http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2018/06/18/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-532/ (by krytarik)
[08:42] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: RaphaÃ«l Hertzog: Freexianâs report about Debian Long Term Support, May 2018 @ https://raphaelhertzog.com/2018/06/19/freexians-report-about-debian-long-term-support-may-2018/
[10:05] <aaasdf> JOIN
[10:05] <aaasdf> HELP
[13:16] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: KDE Plasma 5.13 Desktop Environment Gets First Point Release, over 20 Bugs Fixed @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/kde-plasma-5-13-desktop-environment-gets-first-point-release-over-20-bugs-fixed-521625.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[14:27] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: June 19 Has Been Declared National FreeBSD Day, Happy 25th Anniversary FreeBSD! @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/june-19-has-been-declared-national-freebsd-day-happy-25th-anniversary-freebsd-521627.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[14:52] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: SparkyLinux 5.4 GameOver, Multimedia, and Rescue Special Editions Are Out Now @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/sparkylinux-5-4-gameover-multimedia-and-rescue-special-editions-are-out-now-521628.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[18:27] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Benjamin Mako Hill: How markets coopted free softwareâs most powerful weapon (LibrePlanet 2018 Key... @ https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/libreplanet-2018-keynote
[19:14] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: First Ubuntu Touch OTA-4 Release Candidate Based on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS Is Here @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/first-ubuntu-touch-ota-4-release-candidate-based-on-ubuntu-16-04-lts-is-here-521632.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[20:28] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Android-x86 Project Now Lets You Install Android 8.1 Oreo on Your PC @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/android-x86-project-now-lets-you-install-android-8-1-oreo-on-your-pc-521633.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[21:08] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Debian GNU/Linux 10 "Buster" Installer Updated with Linux Kernel 4.16 Support @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/debian-gnu-linux-10-buster-installer-updated-with-linux-kernel-4-16-support-521631.shtml (by Marius Nestor)


[02:35] <mr_steve> Ever make a copy of everything important from your homedir, and reformat... only to realize you forgot your dotfiles?
[02:38] <mr_steve> I guess it's a good chance to start over at least
[02:45] <ColinHarrington> I did that when I upgraded to 10.10.  Not fun!
[02:45] <ColinHarrington> what do you use for backup?
[02:48] <mr_steve> ColinHarrington: I didn't have any real backups configured yet, I just sort of cherry-picked the directories I wanted to keep and copied 'em to another server
[02:49] <ColinHarrington> with nautalis?
[02:49] <mr_steve> Yep
[02:49] <ColinHarrington> that'll do it :-/
[02:49] <ColinHarrington> I had that happen to me with the 'back-in-time' tool
[02:49] <ColinHarrington> there is a setting deep in there somewhere to include hidden files that I missed.
[02:50] <ColinHarrington> that really sucked to loose all of that.
[02:50] <mr_steve> Just last year I put a ton of work into customizing bash, vim, mutt, irssi, and awesome
[02:50] <mr_steve> Now I got a fresh start ahead of me I guess
[02:50] <ColinHarrington> doh
[02:50] <ColinHarrington> that hurts
[02:51] <mr_steve> Awesome is the worst; it's my favorite window manager for sure, but Lua scripts for config files is just sick
[16:02] <DaGeek247> anyone here know of an empty chatroom?
[16:06] <mr_steve> DaGeek247: uh... what do you mean?
[16:07] <DaGeek247> I need a chatroom with no one in it, and if possible, a small link. could you help?
[16:08] <DaGeek247> bye,
[16:08] <mr_steve> That was odd
[17:28] <jeremyA> very
[17:28] <jeremyA> doesn't he know he can just create an empty chatroom when he wants?
[17:33] <mr_steve> jeremyA: well, he came from freenode's webchat, so I'm guess he knows... little
[17:39]  * jeremyA smirks
[18:01] <jeremyA> n1ce.a55
[18:01] <jeremyA> dangit.
[23:03]  * Obsidian1723 see the computer support company in NZ that is using the Debian logo as their own? http://legendpc.co.nz
[23:04]  * Obsidian1723 did not mean th blast that out to all channels Im on, sorry


[09:59] <thorwil> mat_t: good morning! would you agree to have something similar to an Incoming section in the Ayatana wiki, to then keep all concepts and mockups that go beyond theming out of the Artwork area?
[09:59] <thorwil> this one could be seen as corner case, but i think that's more Ayatana than Artwork: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Maverick/daniel_windicators
[10:04] <vish> thorwil: you could move it to > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicator/Concepts and it would get included to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana the naivgation at the bottom
[10:05] <vish> thorwil: there is already https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Workspaces and the /Concepts , so kinda makes the main page the place where accepted work is carried out
[10:05] <thorwil> vish: yes, but there should be a long term strategy to where we put pages
[10:06] <vish> thorwil: yup , thats why the Ayatana/Project and the concepts go in Ayatana/Project/Concepts
[10:07] <vish> thorwil: the mailing list already has too many concepts :D  we have to start sorting now else a general /concepts page would be a mess ;p
[10:09] <thorwil> vish: so you're in favor of having topics as first level, with Concepts inside
[10:09] <mat_t> thorwil: hi, sorry, crazy busy atm... makes sense to me, go for it
[10:09] <thorwil> as opposed to Concepts/Topic
[10:10] <vish> thorwil: yup. else the topic[when being worked on] would not be a higher level , or we would endup having to create a new level for those :s
[10:11] <thorwil> vish: ok, bu then we should have some carefully chosen Topics in place. i'll write a proposal and threaten to go ahead with it if nobody stops me :)
[10:15] <vish> thorwil: bah , ayatana no one is gonna listen ;p  you'll eventually get more topics o.0    ..i would just move it to Ayatana/Windicators/Concepts  ..  and people will catch on with the idea :)
[13:15] <ivanka> doctormo: hi
[14:22] <doctormo> hey  ivanka
[14:23] <ivanka> doctormo: all home and safe?
[14:24] <doctormo> yep
[14:24] <ivanka> doctormo: I wanted to follow up on the Free Culture Showcase session and was wondering if we formally attach that project to the deviantart group you have already set up?
[14:24] <doctormo> yourself?
[14:24] <doctormo> Sure what would you like to do?
[14:24] <ivanka> doctormo: home, safe, walked, sore feet, going away for a long weekend - all good!
[14:24] <ivanka> well
[14:25] <ivanka> nothing right this very minute because I need to make sure we have sites for all the different types of data
[14:25] <ivanka> and then I can announce
[14:26] <ivanka> if we are agree in principle that this is ok - I will ping you an email with some suggested text and we can take it from there - that sound ok?
[14:29] <doctormo> ivanka: Sounds like a plan
[14:31] <doctormo> ivanka: At the moment I can make blog entries which are announced to all members, I can't make deviantArt compititions because I believe that requires paying them for the group service. But that shouldn't be required if we have a place to put the artworks and some information to broadcast.
[14:32] <ivanka> doctormo: perfect. I will be in touch next week after my little holiday
[14:32] <doctormo> Have a good time!
[16:05] <seb128> hey kermiac
[16:05] <seb128> tedg, there?
[16:05] <kermiac> hey seb128
[16:05] <tedg> Good morning seb128
[16:05] <seb128> hey tedg
[16:06] <seb128> tedg, kermiac is looking at writting apport hooks
[16:06] <kermiac> hey tedg
[16:06] <seb128> tedg, do you have any useful hint for indicator-applet out of the logs in .cache
[16:06] <seb128> what other infos would be useful to collect?
[16:06] <seb128> having indicator-* versions would be useful too I guess?
[16:07] <tedg> Yeah, I think those are the most useful.
[16:07] <seb128> tedg, do you think it should have a "which indicator has an issue?"
[16:07] <tedg> Are we talking for apport?  If so, I think a wizard to choose which one would be useful.
[16:07] <seb128> and list all the sound, message, etc
[16:07] <seb128> which ones would you list?
[16:07] <tedg> Yeah, also a way to get to the application if that's applicable.
[16:07] <seb128> the system ones, + a choice for an another software?
[16:08] <seb128> I'm not sure we can easily handle the "enter an application name"
[16:08] <tedg> Yup, that's probably the list I'd go for.  Let's see how confused people get :)
[16:08] <seb128> we can bail out and ask to open a bug again the software though
[16:08] <tedg> Well, we can query the list of ones running...
[16:08] <seb128> how?
[16:08] <seb128> kermiac, can you open a bug to track that?
[16:08] <seb128> so we can comment in there
[16:09] <seb128> kermiac, seems we want to collect those .cache logs + have an interactive question "which indicator is having the issue"
[16:09] <seb128> so it would send the bug to the one selected
[16:09] <kermiac> seb128: ok, against indicator-applet, right?
[16:10] <seb128> yes
[16:10] <tedg> seb128, On Dbus if you call "GetApplications" on org.ayatana.indicator.application it will dump them all.
[16:11] <kermiac> seb128: ok, I'll do that first thing tomorrow as it's very late here .I'll ping you with the bug #.
[16:11] <tedg> The first entry is the icon name.  We could probably just show all those.
[16:11] <seb128> thanks
[16:11] <kermiac> np
[16:11] <seb128> tedg, can you drop a comment in the bug when it's opened about this?
[16:11] <tedg> seb128, Yup.
[16:11] <tedg> kermiac, Thanks!
[16:11] <seb128> thanks
[16:11] <seb128> kermiac, thanks
[16:12] <kermiac> ok thanks tedg, I'll ping you with the bug #
[16:12] <kermiac> np :)
[16:16] <ejat> hi .. just wanna to ask .. will the new ubuntu font release ?
[16:18] <tedg> ejat, It will release with Maverick -- it's still being developed.
[16:22] <ejat> tedg, owh thanks for the info
[21:56] <desrt> tedg: hey
[21:56] <desrt> tedg: i've seen indicator-applet grow to use ~10GB of ram a few times in the past while
[21:57] <tedg> desrt, Err, that's no good.
[21:57] <desrt> tedg: appears to be related to the sound indicator.  when rhythmbox is running, the applet and sound indicator are each using ~70% CPU and the leaking is happening
[21:57] <desrt> heard anything about this?
[21:57] <tedg> desrt, Just to be curious where did you get 10GB of RAM?
[21:57] <tedg> :)
[21:57] <desrt> from dell
[21:57] <desrt> came with another 2 :)
[21:58] <tedg> No, I've noticed that there seems to be a leak, but nothing like 10GB.  I got to 100MB after a week.
[21:58] <tedg> But, I thought that was fixed with the last dbusmenu change.
[21:59] <desrt> i killed it earlier today when top was saying 10.1g 9.7g for virt/res
[21:59] <tedg> Mines at 20MB and I've been listening to music all day.
[21:59] <desrt> one piece of information that may be important is that i rm /usr/bin/pulseaudio
[22:00] <tedg> Like literally "rm" or "apt-get remove" ?
[22:00] <desrt> well, "mv"
[22:00] <desrt> but rm, effectively
[22:00] <desrt> pulse really really really hates the usb speakers i'm using
[22:00] <tedg> Hmm, I think that indicator sound will try and start it -- but that should be the indicator-sound-service not indicator-applet
[22:01] <tedg> So if that was the issue I don't think that indicator-applet would notice.
[22:01] <desrt> right.  so both of them are using a whole lot of CPU
[22:01] <desrt> and i'm sitting here watching indicator-applet grow
[22:01] <desrt> 446m
[22:01] <desrt> 447
[22:01] <desrt> 449
[22:01] <desrt> (that's virtual size)
[22:01] <desrt> 452
[22:01]  * tedg is looking for a "watching the grass grow" joke but can't find one.
[22:02] <desrt> it's a pretty impressive leak :)
[22:02] <jcastro> it's your day for leaks ted!
[22:02] <desrt> 15574 desrt     20   0  455m  78m  11m R   68  0.7   5:00.52 indicator-apple     3884 desrt     20   0  277m 5380 4204 R   51  0.0 234:38.27 indicator-sound
[22:02] <tedg> Yeah, I know that ronoc had a patch for Pulse restarting... I'm curious if that's in distro.
[22:04] <desrt> i'm gonna valgrind this sucker
[22:05] <tedg> Hmm, I don't see any unmerged branches hanging out.
[22:06] <desrt> hm.  indicator-applet doesn't like running under valgrind
[22:06] <desrt> but the leak is happening
[22:06]  * desrt waits a bit
[22:07] <tedg> I haven't tried that, but you can run the loader which should be happier.
[22:07] <tedg> apt-get install libindicator-tools
[22:07] <desrt> it's working except that it shows up as a grey block on the panel
[22:07] <desrt> instead of drawing its icons
[22:07] <tedg> $ /usr/lib/libindicator/indicator-loader /usr/lib/indicators/3/libsound.so
[22:08] <desrt> ==16601== LEAK SUMMARY:
[22:08] <desrt> ==16601==    definitely lost: 640 bytes in 7 blocks
[22:08] <desrt> ==16601==    indirectly lost: 368 bytes in 12 blocks
[22:08] <desrt> ==16601==      possibly lost: 128,870,913 bytes in 962,614 blocks
[22:08] <desrt> hmm
[22:08] <desrt> perhaps it is not technically a leak...
[22:08] <tedg> possibly
[22:08] <tedg> :)
[22:08] <desrt> the big leaking happens below dbus_watch_handle
[22:10] <tedg> Hmm, no function by that name...  up one?
[22:10] <desrt> lots of ???
[22:11] <desrt> how am i supposed to be installing the debug version these days?
[22:11] <tedg> Oh, I think you need another repository...  /me looks
[22:11] <desrt> ya. ddebs or something
[22:11] <desrt> i always forget
[22:12] <tedg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[22:12] <desrt> there now :)
[22:15] <desrt> hm.  this isn't nearly as annoying as i had remembered
[22:16] <desrt> so the weird thing is that all the symbols on the path of the leak are inside dbus
[22:17] <desrt> hmm
[22:17] <desrt> it looks like lots of DBusMessages are building up
[22:17] <desrt> are you doing any peer-to-peer dbus sockets?
[22:17] <tedg> That seems a little odd.
[22:18] <tedg> None that I know of.  Perhaps in the Pulse side?
[22:18] <desrt> could be
[22:18] <desrt> this is quite obnoxious
[22:18] <desrt> is indicator-applet using pulse directly?
[22:19] <tedg> No, it's not.
[22:19] <desrt> so i guess that's not the case
[22:19] <tedg> Yeah, there's really nothing interesting on the indicator-applet side of things.
[22:19] <desrt> ah
[22:20] <desrt> maybe you're reffing a DBusMessage and not properly unreffing
[22:20] <desrt> for example
[22:20] <desrt> ==19745== 418,304 bytes in 2,752 blocks are possibly lost in loss record 6,314 of 6,328
[22:20] <desrt> ==19745==    at 0x4C274A8: malloc (vg_replace_malloc.c:236)
[22:20] <desrt> ==19745==    by 0x96A75FA: dbus_message_new_empty_header (dbus-message.c:966)
[22:20] <desrt> that seriously points to broken refcounting on a DBusMessage somewhere
[22:20] <desrt> oh.  heh
[22:21] <desrt> i just looked at dbus-monitor
[22:21] <desrt> it's going crazy
[22:21] <desrt> signal sender=:1.236 -> dest=(null destination) serial=100160962 path=/org/ayatana/indicator/sound/menu; interface=org.ayatana.dbusmenu; member=ItemPropertyUpdated
[22:21] <tedg> That makes sense, I'm just not sure where'd that be. :-/
[22:21] <desrt> lots of signals flying around
[22:21] <desrt> so there's two bugs i guess
[22:22] <desrt> 1) indicator applet is leaking memory on receiving dbus messages of some kind
[22:22] <desrt> 2) sound indicator is sending messages like crazy
[22:23] <desrt> unfortunately valgrind is not very good about telling you the source of the leak...
[22:23] <desrt> only where the memory in question was allocated
[22:23] <tedg> Yeah, I think that probably the leak would have to be in dbusmenu.  As nothing above there would get dbus messages.
[22:24] <desrt> which one are you using?
[22:24] <desrt> -gtk? -glib?
[22:25] <tedg> -gtk uses -glib.  So if there's a leak of dbus messages it'd probably be in -glib
[22:25] <desrt> is this using dbus-glib?
[22:25] <tedg> Yes
[22:25]  * desrt starts wondering how deep the rabbit hole goes....
[22:26] <desrt> libdbusmenu never directly handles DBusMessage
[22:26] <desrt> wouldn't be surprised if this is a leak in dbus-glib
[22:26] <desrt> anyway.  #2 is definitely your fault
[22:27] <desrt> you should fix that :)
[22:27] <tedg> Heh, for sure.  But, I've got a recreatable test case on a machine that isn't useful to me ;)
[22:27] <desrt> just rename your pulseaudio bin and run rhythmbox :p
[22:27] <desrt> and rename back when done
[22:29] <desrt> i guess you should probably also port dbusmenu to GDBus :)
[22:29] <desrt> all the cool kids are doing it
[22:30] <tedg> Yeah, that's definitely on the TODO list.  No love for dbus-glib here.
[22:30] <desrt> no love anywhere soon, i suspect
[22:32] <tedg> Err, the signal handling is a bit convoluted here... probably can't get an SRU for the GDBus port :)
[22:33] <desrt> i guess glib would need to have an SRU first :p
[22:33] <desrt> seb has mentioned that he intends to semi-officially package new glib for lucid, though
[22:34] <desrt> for gdbus/gsettings reasons
[22:34] <tedg> Yes, that's my understanding.  I'm trying to get him to agree to put gtk+ 3 on the CD.
[22:35] <tedg> He's going to have to agree for N, but it'd be nice for M.
[22:35] <tedg> Otherwise we really need to back port hadess' symbolic icons patch -- which just seems like a waste of energy.