[01:20] <Crisco> hrw: are you there?
[01:50] <dex`> …
[06:00] <ranjith> hi all
[06:01] <ranjith> any one know , how the gnome-rdp can be installed in the ubuntu-arm working or omap4-blaze .?
[06:02] <hrw> ranjith: probably the same way as any other package
[06:03] <ranjith> I ahve not yet installed any package in ubuntu-arm .. is it same as how we do in normal ubuntu ..?
[06:04] <hrw> yes
[06:04] <hrw> just other architecture
[06:08] <ranjith> ok
[06:08] <ranjith> so that means the installation will work with the apt-get install ..?
[06:46] <ranjith> while doing sudo dd bs=4M if=ubuntu-netbook-10.10-preinstalled-netbook-armel+<omap image>.img of=/dev/<device name>  , will it create two parttions in the 4gb sdcard or three,
[06:47] <ranjith> I had instaled the ubuntu-arm on omap4-blaze last day, but while trying to install it again, now its failing. its creating 3 parttions in my card and not booting ..
[07:04] <hrw> I do not know - I do not use ubuntu images
[07:06] <ranjith> hrw: is there any other way than using this image ..?
[08:52] <belier> hi
[11:49] <sveinse> Is there a mailing list similar to this channel?
[11:55] <hrw> sveinse: ubuntu-devel is used now
[12:08] <jacquesdupontd> hey guys anybody in U.S heard about a U.S missile launch those days?
[12:30] <rsalveti> morning
[12:33] <sveinse> morning
[12:34] <sveinse> Is there a way to build apps with the cross compiler and make the linking against userspace target [dynamic] libraries?
[12:36] <sveinse> I'm trying to build a Qt application, which I am able to fully build and link with a cross compiler. But as soon as I link against other libs which is installed on the target Ubuntu ARM, the linker gets confused
[12:37] <sveinse> E.g 1) On target /usr/lib/libpthread.so is a linker script referring to "/lib/libpthread.so" which confuses the cross compiler, as this is then referring to the host lib
[12:39] <sveinse> So I fixed that by modifying the scripts and the linker is partly happy. When I try to link against, say libpulse.so, it requires a lot of other libs, like libz.so, which the linker cannot find without explicitly naming -lz when linking
[12:39] <sveinse> It gets me to wonder: How is it intended to use the cross compiler should be used and what option have i missed?
[12:39] <sveinse> Is these problems at all familiar to anyone?
[12:41] <sveinse> On target native building is really not an option for us, because it pratically renders the build servers useless...
[12:42] <sveinse> One option could be to make a ARM rootfs with the -dev packages installed, and inject the cross-compiler into it and then use chroot.
[12:42] <sveinse> But this seems like hairy methods to me
[12:43] <rsalveti> and it's still slow, real cross should be the best option
[12:43] <rsalveti> maybe hrw can help you better
[12:43] <rsalveti> but I believe this will only be fixed with multiarch support
[12:45] <hrw> sveinse: check for xdeb in wiki.linaro.org
[12:46]  * hrw -> confcall
[12:47] <janimo> rsalveti: hello
[12:51] <rsalveti> janimo: hey
[12:51] <janimo> rsalveti: was looking around what tasks to pick :)
[12:51] <janimo> was looking into the haskell FTBFS's
[12:51] <janimo> and to the linaro qemu thing
[12:52] <sveinse> hrw: anything particular I'm looking for on the wiki?
[12:52] <janimo> since my arm board arrives tomorrow, I think I'll try out the install in qemu first
[12:52] <rsalveti> janimo: ok, should be ok with qemu
[12:52] <hrw> https://wiki.linaro.org/UsingXdeb
[12:52] <rsalveti> if you use the same qemu as linaro and the omap3 kernel
[12:53] <janimo> rsalveti: yes, using qemu from linaro ppa, omap3 10.10 image
[12:53] <janimo> and will look for a kernel image
[12:54] <ogra_ac> bah
[12:55] <ogra_ac> http://packages.debian.org/experimental/libreoffice
[12:55] <ogra_ac> no armel builds
[12:55] <janimo> ogra_ac: I'll look into OO as well
[12:56] <ogra_ac> i guess you have to wait for the kdelibs stuff to be done
[12:56] <janimo> s/OO/LibO/
[12:56] <ogra_ac> it wont build otherwise
[12:56] <janimo> sure
[12:56] <ogra_ac> ah
[12:56] <janimo> just when it is time
[12:56] <janimo> so is the toolchain fix for Qt released then?
[12:56] <ogra_ac> well, i'm not sure we will sync it into natty
[12:56] <janimo> LibO ?
[12:56] <ogra_ac> (libO i mean)
[12:57] <janimo> hmm, past freeze or why?
[12:57] <janimo> they have 3.3 RC1 out
[12:57] <ogra_ac> the toolchain fix was actually there before A1 but nobody noticed (the changelog entry was a bit weird)
[12:57] <janimo> and seem to be progressing nice, and the deb packager is up to date
[12:57] <ogra_ac> well, i have no idea what the TB decided
[12:57] <janimo> so QT stuff should just need a 'try rebuild' ?
[12:57] <ogra_ac> so i dont know if we ship OO.o or libO
[12:57] <janimo> ogra_ac: ah, was there a TB meeting regarding this
[12:57]  * janimo missed it :(
[12:57] <ogra_ac> no idea
[12:58] <ogra_ac> but i would expect this to be a TB decision
[12:58] <janimo> I hope we'll use LibO, much nicer upstream, much less work for ubuntu packager
[12:58] <ogra_ac> yes
[12:58] <ogra_ac> i was just writing some letters with zoho and its really unusable
[12:58] <ogra_ac> that made me look at the debian libO stuff
[12:59] <janimo> but isn;t current OO in natty working?
[12:59] <ogra_ac> should work afaik
[12:59] <janimo> LibO takes many hours to build on a decent x86 desktop
[12:59] <ogra_ac> but my ac100 has only 4G free, i dont want to waste that space on an office suite
[12:59] <janimo> I wonder how much it is on an arm borad
[12:59] <ogra_ac> so i decided to use what we ship on arm
[13:00] <ogra_ac> which is zoho
[13:00] <ogra_ac> but that has multiple issues
[13:00] <janimo> I did not know about zoho
[13:00] <janimo> is that FOSS too?
[13:00] <ogra_ac> its a web sevice
[13:00] <ogra_ac> similar to google docs
[13:00] <janimo> no deskto pcomponent at all?
[13:00] <janimo> ok
[13:00] <ogra_ac> there is mime integration and .desktop files we ship
[13:00] <janimo> I knew about it but though maybe there some glue for the ubuntu desktoip (indicators whatnot)
[13:01] <ogra_ac> JamieBennett did do that before he moved to linaro
[13:01] <ogra_ac> nobody really improved it beyond that
[13:01] <ogra_ac> but the issues i had were rather on the zoho side, not with our integration
[13:01] <janimo> yes
[13:02] <ogra_ac> main issue is that it hangs eternally once you try to use copy/paste
[13:02] <ogra_ac> OO.o takes 36h to build on armel
[13:02] <ogra_ac> i wouldnt expect libO to be much different
[13:02] <ogra_ac> buut as soon as we switch to panda buildds that will change significantly
[13:03] <ogra_ac> (should reduce the time to 1/2)
[13:06] <sveinse> hrw: Can I build production apps with xdeb, or is it just for convenience (i.e. experimental) ?
[13:07] <hrw> experimental rather
[13:07] <hrw> ubuntu and crosscompilation does not match
[13:08] <sveinse> so I've figured on my own..
[13:08] <hrw> sveinse: never heard of that mistical 16core 5GHz arm cpus and mainboard which takes 8 of them + 128GB of 3333MHz ddr3 ram?
[13:09] <hrw> I heard that ogra_ac uses such as desktop
[13:09] <ogra_ac> ??
[13:09] <hrw> </joke
[13:09] <hrw> >
[13:09] <ogra_ac> heh
[13:09] <ogra_ac> i wouldnt mind to
[13:09] <ogra_ac> would be wuieter than my laptop
[13:09] <hrw> neither would I
[13:09] <sveinse> hrw: I should propose this to the purchasing and the the IT dept... Guess they won't like :D
[13:09] <ogra_ac> *quieter
[13:12] <sveinse> Kind of ironic I would say. We have a large build server to our disposal in this project, but cannot use it properly to our benefit: cross-compile is dodgy, qemu is inefficient, running on target... :(
[13:16] <janimo> hrw: is it only that ubuntu and xcompilation do not match or xdeb itself is not mature on any platform
[13:17] <hrw> xdeb is not mature
[13:17] <hrw> it is improving
[13:19] <sveinse> Well on the flipside, my impression is that Ubuntu ARM is pretty stable, since it relies on only native compiling.
[13:21] <sveinse> one of the reasons why we chose Ubuntu as system for our project (over OE)
[13:32] <sveinse> Are there any risks in cross compiling an application and then exporting it to the target in relationship to which cross compiler is used?  E.g. when the app dynamically relies on libc, I cannot choose cross compiler (CodeSourcery vs. armel-cross) freely since these are build against specific libc libs, right?
[13:33] <sveinse> (when running Ubuntu ARM on target, using libc installed from ubuntu)
[14:42] <hrw> ubuntu 10.10 provides armel cross compiler
[14:43] <hrw> but is has a bug 684625 which I have a fix for so matter of 2 weeks?
[14:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 684625 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "libc6 is compiled for armv5 instead of armv7a (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/684625
[15:02] <davidm> ndec, holding on the phone
[15:03] <ndec> davidm: sorry. i am a bit late. i am coming
[15:03] <davidm> ndec, NP
[15:03] <davidm> ndec, was worried I had messed up the time somehow
[15:15]  * rsalveti lunch
[15:40] <dmart> ogra_ac: hey there
[15:41] <dmart> Trying to understand the initramfs thing ... where does run-init come from?  The only source I know of is klibc
[15:42] <dmart> npitre: ah, the other guys here thought you do
[15:43] <dmart> (wrong channel)
[16:37] <dcordes> dmart: what is it you don't understand ?
[16:44] <dmart> dcordes: I don't understand ogra's statement about run-init being linked against glibc ... if run-init is build from the klibc package ...?
[16:44] <dmart>  /win 5
[16:54] <GrueMaster> rsalveti: Did you know that Friday's (Alpha 1) image doesn't have networking?
[17:00] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: I only saw that the nm-applet icon wasn't there
[17:00] <rsalveti> that's kind of ok for alpha, you still can fire dhcp by hand if you need/want
[17:01] <rsalveti> but would be good to reproduce the issue, fire a bug and debug
[17:01] <rsalveti> seems that the gnome-panel is not that stable either
[17:01] <rsalveti> some times I get seg fault while loading it
[17:01] <rsalveti> just need to find time to debug and report these issues
[17:02] <GrueMaster> Not a big deal for A1, but this kind of stuff needs to be listed in the release notes.  This is one of the reasons why I hate last minute respins.
[17:03] <rsalveti> sure, but we did the respin because otherwise we would basically miss it
[17:03] <GrueMaster> Friday was supposed to be dedicated to blueprint work.  Instead I had to pack up a panda & monitor to take downtown to the PDX meeting so I could try to figure this out.
[17:03] <GrueMaster> I understand the reasoning behind the respin.  Never said I had to like it.  :P
[17:04] <GrueMaster> But so far, I have had little time for blueprint work, due to respin testing, -proposed testing, and other interrupts.
[17:05]  * GrueMaster wonders if someone added an automated test somewhere to test his sanity.
[17:05] <rsalveti> yeah, I also got quite busy with stuff I wasn't planning for
[17:05] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: if you find time, check if today's image also have this issue
[17:06] <GrueMaster> I already pulled it.  Will look at in a little bit. (part of my morning routine).
[17:09] <rsalveti> ok, let me know if you're still facing these issues, will try to debug later then
[17:41] <tmzt> ogra_ac: abiword doesn't work for you? ac100 is going well then?
[18:36] <Neko> ogra, ogra_ac about usb-imagewriter or so, is there a good reason why it can't use compressed images and decompress them?
[18:41] <GrueMaster> Neko: You can file a wishlist bug for it.  The images it was originally designed for are x86 .iso type images though.  It really doesn't do a raw-write as needed by our preinstalled images.
[18:42] <Neko> not Startup Disk Creator
[18:42] <Neko> usb-imagewriter
[18:43] <Neko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usb-imagewriter
[18:48] <GrueMaster> I don't think it has been worked on in over a year, since usb-imagecreator became the default for Ubuntu.
[18:49] <GrueMaster> And ogra is out until the end of the year (may make an appearance now and again, but doubtful).
[18:52] <Neko> usb-imagecreator doesn't work for arm netbook images which are still shipped as .img
[18:53] <Neko> I can't believe Ubuntu armel is still a second-rate distribution after Mark waved an AC100 round and said "this is the future!!"
[18:53] <Neko> is he being overridden by committee or something who only care about amd64?
[18:54] <rsalveti> well, as mark said, that's the future
[18:54] <rsalveti> not now hehe
[18:54] <rsalveti> but the idea is to get closer and closer with other archs
[18:55] <Neko> startup disk creator only writes to partitions not to disks
[18:55] <Neko> it's really clumsy :(
[18:56] <GrueMaster> Like I said, it was designed for .iso images to be written to USB.
[18:58] <Neko> I guess it's time to write a new tool for it
[18:58] <Neko> sounds like a fun project for me :D
[18:59] <Neko> BTW does Ubuntu hold the same "ARGH IT HAS TO BE GPL!!!!!" policy of Debian?
[19:00] <armin76> lol
[19:00] <Neko> okay let me rephrase that in a less funny way
[19:01] <Neko> does Ubuntu hold the same "ARGH IT HAS TO BE GPL!!!!" policy as Debian, or comparitively the "OMG IF IT'S NOT BSD WE SHOULD REWRITE IT" of Open/FreeBSD for example?
[19:01] <Neko> because to be honest the BSD tools are much better than the GNU ones.. BSD tar is awesome for example, since it uses libarchive
[19:01] <GrueMaster> Neko: Why not pull a branch of usb-imagecreator and enhance it?
[19:02] <Neko> I'm apt-get sourcing it now :D
[19:03] <Neko> I just figured maybe it would be a cute idea to use the bsdtar and bsdcpio by default and make tar and cpio wrappers around it to mess with what the GNU differences are
[19:03] <Neko> they can be faked..
[19:05] <Neko> it reduces the footprint by a little bit, compression is automatically detected and extensible, it really is wicked
[19:22] <GrueMaster> rsalveti: Something changed recently in natty as to networking.  I tried re-adding "auto usb0 ; iface usb0 inet dhcp" to /etc/network/interfaces and it works again.
[19:22] <GrueMaster> I don't have manifests for the images prior to A1 though.
[19:23] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: ok, but that should work, are you able to see the nm-applet now?
[19:23] <GrueMaster> After adding the above two lines, yes.
[19:23] <GrueMaster> And it connects.
[19:23] <rsalveti> hm, weird
[19:24] <GrueMaster> Although the nm applet icon appears to be a disconnected wifi icon.
[19:24] <GrueMaster> Should be two arrows (up & down) for ethernet.
[19:25] <rsalveti> iface usb0 inet dhcp probably says to nm to avoid managing it
[19:25] <GrueMaster> hmm/
[19:25] <GrueMaster> Will try w/o.
[19:25] <rsalveti> on maverick we don't need to put these lines and it works ok, as expected
[19:26] <GrueMaster> we used to.
[19:26] <rsalveti> need to check the nm log to understand why it's not calling dhcp at the interface
[19:26] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: check /var/log/daemon.log
[19:26] <GrueMaster> I wrote a script to fix images prior to them working properly in mav.
[19:26] <GrueMaster> ok.  rebooting, so one sec.
[19:27] <GrueMaster> hmm.  Dropping "iface usb0 inet dhcp" fails.  No nm applet.
[19:28] <rsalveti> so it's probably failing to manage the usb0 interface
[19:28] <rsalveti> can you paste me the logs, since the boot?
[19:29] <GrueMaster> Erm, give me a sec.  No network, no pastebinit.
[19:32] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: give dhclient usb0 at serial
[19:32] <GrueMaster> You assume I am using a serial console.
[19:33] <GrueMaster> I'm getting it online.  Just need to install pastebinit.
[19:35] <GrueMaster> Grrr.  universe is still not activated in the image.
[19:41] <GrueMaster> rsalveti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/540406
[19:43] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: this is with or without the modification you made?
[19:43] <GrueMaster> Should have both.  I don't think the file changes between reboots.
[19:44] <GrueMaster> My changes would be lower down the line.
[19:44] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: Dec  6 02:44:58 sycamore init: network-manager main process (623) killed by SEGV signal
[19:44] <rsalveti> not good
[19:44] <rsalveti> first error
[19:44] <rsalveti> nm-dispatcher.action: Script '/etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/01ifupdown' exited with error status 1
[19:45] <GrueMaster> Yea, I'm seeing that a lot as I scroll down.
[19:45] <rsalveti> first thing would be to check why this script is returning error
[19:47] <rsalveti> when you added your lines, nm probably decided not to manage the interface, and then it didn't get the segv
[19:47] <rsalveti> nm is probably calling this script with usb0
[19:49] <rsalveti> Ifupdown: get unmanaged devices count: 1
[19:49] <rsalveti> here's where nm decided not to manage the usb0 interface
[19:50] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: so our problem now is why nm is getting segv when trying to init the usb0 interface
[19:50] <rsalveti> could be because it doesn't expect the script to return an error
[19:51] <GrueMaster> I'm comparing with my other panda running maverick.
[19:54]  * rsalveti is updating his natty image
[19:56] <GrueMaster> I tried the script manually with all 4 cases it uses and haven't seen an error.
[19:56] <GrueMaster> Will reboot w/o auto usb0 settings.
[20:00] <GrueMaster> If I didn't know any better, I would think that it is going ipv6 only.
[20:02] <rsalveti> will try to reproduce it here when it finishes the update
[20:10] <rsalveti> argh, sd card is too slow
[20:21] <sveinse> rsalveti: BTW: I noticed that there are huge difference between sd cards, even within the same class rating, because their latencies varies a lot.
[20:22] <sveinse> It's a challenge for us when we are sourcing sd cards because we need the right one, but its selection parameters is not listed in the card's specs
[20:24] <sveinse> I went to my local gadget store and bought a new SD card, and it was totally useless. It's read and write speeds were allright, even better than my old card, (I did verify) but the latencies are 5-7 times slower than my old.
[20:25] <sveinse> Ubuntu was going from useful to useless
[20:25] <rsalveti> sveinse: yeah, true, problem is that I cannot find many different sd cards around
[20:26] <rsalveti> mostly they are from kingston
[20:26] <rsalveti> that's why I have 2 usb disks around, currently running with maverick
[20:26] <rsalveti> a *lot* faster
[20:27] <sveinse> yes, the slow card was in fact a kingston. The old was a sandisk. I even tried a transcend bundled with my HTC. It's faster! (despite being a low-price card)
[20:27] <rsalveti> cool, nice to know
[20:28] <sveinse> Are you modifying the CHS layout of the card?
[20:29] <sveinse> Some have proposed that doing so can really confuse the build in flash translation layer (FTL) since it needs to wrap 512b sectors into x kb flash sectors. Changing the CHS layout would probably make the sector requests out of order and thus creating a *huge* amout of erase cycles
[20:30] <rsalveti> interesting, never heard about that
[20:32] <sveinse> I havent confirmed if its really like this yet, though. In light of our commercial sourcing, I think I will ask specifically to the selected vendor about it to confirm/deny it.
[20:32] <rsalveti> ok
[20:32] <hrw> sveinse: kingston just brands cards - atleast it was that way some time ago
[20:34] <sveinse> hrw: I think so too. And I also believe the card available at your local computer store are mostly low-price and low on performance.
[20:34] <hrw> I run ubuntu on sata disk connected though usb
[20:35] <sveinse> I also did that, but the USB stack died a couple of times and killed the FS :(
[20:35] <hrw> but usb on pandaboard is not as fast as I woule too
[20:36] <sveinse> I experience NFS being more stable, albeit slower
[20:37] <hrw> depends - on some devices it is faster then local storage
[20:40] <sveinse> hrw: I trust I can rely on that the host's libstdc++6-armel-cross and libc6-armel-cross are in sync/ABI compatible with the native armel counterparts?
[20:40] <hrw> yes
[20:40] <hrw> sveinse: same sources, same configs, same compile flags
[20:41] <sveinse> excellent
[20:41] <hrw> sveinse: but current one are broken
[20:42] <sveinse> hrw: In what way? Do you have a reference to bug or similar?
[20:42] <hrw> normal are armv7, cross are armv5
[20:42] <hrw> bug 684625
[20:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 684625 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "libc6 is compiled for armv5 instead of armv7a (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/684625
[20:44] <GrueMaster> rsalveti: I wonder if NetworkManager is having issues with the non-existent mac address that was fixed in 2.6.35-903.19?
[20:45] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: don't know, what was fixed is the normal support of setting up the mac address
[20:45] <rsalveti> but getting a segv is not that cool
[20:45] <sveinse> hrw: Does this affect the cross compiled apps in any way? I manually specify -march & friends, and I only rely on dynamic libc/libstc++
[20:45] <rsalveti> still waiting the update =\
[20:47] <hrw> sveinse: should not for shared
[20:52] <sveinse> hrw: In regards of bug #683832, Does this mean that Qt uses some inline asm that triggers the failure?
[20:52] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 683832 in gcc-4.5-armel-cross (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "gcc fails to cross compile Qt (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683832
[20:52] <hrw> yes
[20:52] <GrueMaster> rsalveti: I'm manually updating to 2.6.35-903.19 to see if the mac address fix helps.
[20:52]  * hrw -> away
[20:53] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: ok
[20:53] <GrueMaster> Would be nice if kernel/sru teams would get it released already.  I spent part of my holiday testing that.
[20:54] <rsalveti> the sru released for kernel takes quite a while, I noticed
[20:54] <rsalveti> *releases
[20:54] <GrueMaster> Only when it doesn't apply to security patches.  I went around this cycle several times during Lucid with network patches for both dove & babbage.
[20:55] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: how can someone using an sd card update from one release to the other? it'll take hours!
[20:55] <rsalveti> a lot easier to backup and grab a new preinstalled image hehe
[20:55] <GrueMaster> ~7 releases later, it was finally released into main.
[20:55] <rsalveti> ouch
[20:55] <GrueMaster> I find using a local mirror helps immensely.
[20:56] <rsalveti> sure, but the main problem is not getting the packages, but installing them
[20:56] <rsalveti> dpkg uses the disk a lot, and that is really slow
[20:56] <GrueMaster> Gah!  Got distracted during reboot.  HDMI switch moved to a different system, then this system came up with garbled display.
[20:56] <GrueMaster> True.
[20:57] <GrueMaster> But since these systems are mainly for development, it is easier to nuke & pave.
[20:58] <rsalveti> yeah
[20:58] <GrueMaster> Interesting.  Something in the panel (maybe the panel itself) is in a respawn loop.
[20:59] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: yeah, with segv
[20:59] <rsalveti> another weird segv issue
[20:59] <rsalveti> doesn't happen all the time
[21:01] <rsalveti> ok, finished the update, time to reboot
[21:01] <GrueMaster> Hmm.  Kernel -19 has no effect.  Still get the error about permanent mac in the log and the SEGV.
[21:02] <rsalveti> ok, good to confirm
[21:04] <GrueMaster> Wow, this is new (for me).  I sometimes lose video in X.  Have to switch to text console & back.
[21:04] <GrueMaster> never saw that before.
[21:04] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: underflow?
[21:05] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: check dmesg
[21:05] <GrueMaster> Yep.  GFX_FIFO_UNDERFLOW
[21:05] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: known issue
[21:05] <GrueMaster> Yea, I had heard about it.  Just never saw it before now.
[21:06] <rsalveti> http://people.canonical.com/~rsalveti/maverick/kernel/es2/linux-image-2.6.35-903-omap4_2.6.35-903.18rsalveti2_armel.deb this kernel brings the changes needed to improve it
[21:06] <GrueMaster> Is it more pronounced on ES2.0?  That's what I'm currently testing on.
[21:06] <rsalveti> but as the commits are not in the best shape, and it's just a workaround, we didn't move it further
[21:07] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: yeah, probably because of a slower mem
[21:07] <GrueMaster> ah.  figures.
[21:07] <GrueMaster> Hey.  We have sunshine.  Haven't seen that much all year.
[21:07] <GrueMaster> Kind of cool.
[21:09] <rsalveti> :-)
[21:09] <GrueMaster> Well, it is 1pm.  Need food.
[21:09] <GrueMaster> brb
[21:41] <ogra_ac> hmm, dmart is gone
[21:42] <ogra_ac> Neko, usb-imagewriter needs porting to udisks first, i dont mind to add a line that calls zcat instead of dd if it finds a img.gz suffix indeed
[21:42] <Neko> zcat can write to a block file?
[21:43] <ogra_ac> see our installation instructions
[21:43] <Neko> I gotta get into GTK anyway
[21:43] <Neko> we need to write some tools to properly control power management and all kinds on the Smartbook anyway
[21:43] <Neko> turning off wireless/bluetooth etc. individually etc.
[21:43] <Neko> seems there is no clever way to do that in GNOME or anything
[21:44] <Neko> also to control HDMI and audio on the Nettop
[21:44] <ogra_ac> there is no difference in "gunzip file.img | dd of=/device/foo" or zcat file.img >/device/foo
[21:44] <ogra_ac> ugh
[21:44] <ogra_ac> why would you write extra tools for any of that ?
[21:44] <Neko> ugh?
[21:44] <ogra_ac> just fix integration with the existing tools
[21:45] <Neko> well not so much write extra tools as extra panels in the existing tools :D
[21:45] <Neko> as it stands though there is no existing tool for configuring HDMI settings
[21:45] <ogra_ac> well, for gnome-power.manager you just need to make the kernel DTRT
[21:45] <Neko> DTRT?
[21:45] <Neko> oh that
[21:45] <ogra_ac> yeah, for HDMI you should add something to the display settings
[21:45] <Neko> well sure there is a sysfs interface
[21:46] <Neko> or will be
[21:46] <ogra_ac> but it should be generic enough that other machines with HDMI can use it
[21:46] <Neko> yeah most of it is setting values that go into the AVI Infoframe and to select HDMI audio source (I2S or SPDIF)
[21:46] <ogra_ac> after all its just UI work and making sure your kernel sticks to existing standards
[21:46] <Neko> right now we're rewriting battery and display drivers though
[21:47] <ogra_ac> HDMI audio is trivially done by a pulse profile (as long as your ASoC devide works right)
[21:47] <Neko> but you can run both
[21:47] <ogra_ac> *device
[21:47] <ogra_ac> sure you can run both
[21:48] <Neko> the idea is the hdmi chip is connected to both audio outputs. if you sink i2s to hdmi it converts it to hdmi. if you sink spdif to hdmi it spools it over hdmi
[21:48] <ogra_ac> as long as alsa exposes them right to pulse
[21:48] <Neko> but pulseaudio doesn't have any idea on how to switch between them, there is no way to add a setting users can poke
[21:48] <Neko> it just makes sure it can use each device
[21:48] <ogra_ac> sure
[21:48] <ogra_ac> we use that on the pandaboard
[21:48] <Neko> there just needs to be a switch somewhere to tell the chip which bus it's gotta move audio from
[21:49] <ogra_ac> right, thats a matter of the driver
[21:49] <Neko> we're taking the hint from the omap driver to add blocking notifier chains so they can all cooperate
[21:49] <ogra_ac> just expose all controls in alsa and have a switch inside the driver
[21:50] <ogra_ac> yeah, thats what omap does
[21:50] <Neko> ehhh you can't have alsa controlling the hdmi audio switch it's freakish
[21:50] <ogra_ac> works fine on panda
[21:50] <Neko> we'd have to hack the ASoc and SPDIF drivers to talk directly to the SII9022
[21:50] <ogra_ac> right
[21:50] <ogra_ac> thats where that hack should happen
[21:50] <Neko> well that's dumb it would not work on babbage
[21:50] <Neko> or any other board on MX51
[21:50] <ogra_ac> why would you lift it up to userspace and add latency
[21:50] <Neko> or MX53.. it's board specific
[21:51] <ogra_ac> bad
[21:51] <ogra_ac> but well
[21:51] <Neko> latency?
[21:51] <Neko> what are you talking about
[21:51] <ogra_ac> make the kernel expose the right things and the userspace will behave right
[21:51] <Neko> you write a value to a sysfs file
[21:51] <Neko> it changes whether i2s or spdif is going over hdmi
[21:51] <ogra_ac> its all already there
[21:51] <Neko> if it takes 5us or 5 seconds who cares
[21:52] <ogra_ac> but why dont you do it like everyone else and expose the switch in the asoc driver ?
[21:52] <Neko> this isn't about somehow sending audio it's just a i2c register write
[21:52] <Neko> sigh
[21:52] <ogra_ac> whs does it need to be an additional sysfs control instead
[21:52] <Neko> show me where it bloody does this in another driver then
[21:52] <ogra_ac> where all userspace tools can already handle it right
[21:53] <ogra_ac> look at the omap4 asoc driver in the omap4 kernel tree of ubuntu
[21:53] <Neko> url
[21:53] <ogra_ac> (and probably talk to liam)
[21:53] <ogra_ac> (ASoC upstream)
[21:53] <Neko> we're not upstreaming shit. this is a hack so we can get it working.
[21:53] <ogra_ac> also known as lrg in here ;)
[21:53] <ogra_ac> well, if you dont want help, dont ask him then ;)
[21:53] <ogra_ac> up to you
[21:54] <Neko> maybe in 6 months we'll look for a fancy way of pushing it upstream but there's a good chance none of the drivers we're messing with now are even going into mainline, and the ones that are in mainline are broken as hell anyway
[21:54] <ogra_ac> if you do a hack you will likely have to add more hacks to other areas (UI, userspace etc)
[21:54] <Neko> it's a waste of time thinking about it
[21:54] <ogra_ac> why ?
[21:54] <ogra_ac> just do it right and port that stuff forward later
[21:54] <Neko> because mainlining patches to one fucked up BSP driver and one broken mainline driver for this feature is a waste of time
[21:55] <Neko> we're not thinking of mainline right now
[21:55] <ogra_ac> i'm not talking about mainline
[21:55] <Neko> upstream, mainline, whatever, it's the same thing
[21:55] <Neko> rivers, trains..
[21:55] <ogra_ac> i'm just pointing you to the guy who knows most about SoC audio and can help you
[21:56] <ogra_ac> anyway, i'm on vacation ...
[21:56] <ogra_ac> just took a quick look at mails
[21:56] <Neko> eh there is no omap4 soc driver in the kernel tree for ubuntu
[21:56] <ogra_ac> feel free to send a patch for usb-imagewriter, I'll happily apply it if its sane
[21:57] <Neko> omap-hdmi maybe?
[21:57] <ogra_ac> must be somewhere on the kernel teams git server
[21:57] <Neko> okay I see it, and you're talking crack. this is a specific driver to push audio over that bus. we don't need that
[21:57] <Neko> some other driver pushes audio on the bus
[21:57] <Neko> this is just a switch so we can tell the sii9022 which bus it is meant to be looking at
[21:59] <Neko> technically it'd be part of the framebuffer driver but we need the mxc_spdif and imx-ssi-3stack-sgtl5000 to report to it what the current audio playback settings are too,which is what the notifier is for.
[22:00] <Neko> not framebuffer.. sii9022 i2c driver thingy. man this is too complicated. linux is so stuck in the early 90's :(
[22:01] <Neko> anyway I figured it, coding it now


[00:55]  * TheMuso sighs. Ralf just doesn't get it.
[01:50] <ScottL> TheMuso, why do you say this?
[01:50]  * ScottL doesn't disagree necessarily, just interested in this particular instance
[01:51] <TheMuso> Maybe I misread, but I don't think he understands the manpower issues that all free software projects face.
[01:57] <ScottL> i have found ralf to have a uniquely interesting perspective for many topics
[02:21] <iHaku> How has the work on the new desktop progressed?
[02:23] <ScottL> iHaku, i think that lies with cory at the moment
[02:23] <ScottL> i believe he has made progress and should have something after this weekend to upload the repos
[02:27] <iHaku> Great.  I look forward to testing Studio in this release cycle.
[02:38] <ScottL> good!  we look forward to you testing it :)
[02:38] <ScottL> i'm still not certain that we will have a proper image to test until alpha 2 unfortunately
[02:39] <ScottL> which is a bit bothersome and makes me a little uncomfortable
[04:38] <Kokito> howdy
[04:38] <Kokito> long time no see you folks
[04:39] <ScottL> hi Kokito
[04:39] <ScottL> how are you doing?
[04:40] <Kokito> busy like crazy, but I will survive ScottL :)
[04:40] <Kokito> flying out this Saturday
[04:40] <Kokito> hey ScottL , going to try to give you what I owe you tonight or tomorrow morning
[04:41] <ScottL> that sounds good, is it something you can email me or will it require something else Kokito ?
[04:42] <Kokito> will email you the DB dump and will ZIP all the files and put it up somewhere where you can download it from
[04:43] <ScottL> muy bueno
[04:43] <ScottL> i'm off to bed
[04:43] <Kokito> haha!
[04:43] <Kokito> have a good night ScottL
[06:05]  * saidinesh5 is feeling like a chimpanzee when trying to coordinate both his hands together on kis keyboard......
[06:05] <saidinesh5> ever since i ve joined #ubuntustudio , i ve made it a point to practise some music everyday :D
[14:07] <falktx> hi everyone
[14:07] <scott-work> i'm still working on the xfce menu patch...sunday and yesterday did not turn out like i had hoped
[14:07] <scott-work> falktx: ^^^
[14:08] <scott-work> i should have it banged out either tonight or tomorrow
[14:08] <falktx> scott-work: i just now realized all US bugs are reported to me too
[14:09] <scott-work> lol...yeah they are :)
[14:09] <falktx> scott-work: so I kinda expected the last bug to be about KXStudio, while it was really US
[14:09] <falktx> (the ISO install issue)
[14:09] <scott-work> falktx:  on the same topic, there are quite a few bugs about ubuntustudio-menu which doesn't remove or somethign correctly, do you think that is something you might be able to sort out quickly?
[14:09] <scott-work> or will your menu patch possibly fix this as well?
[14:10] <falktx> scott-work: the patch fix the non-removed items
[14:11] <falktx> scott-work: please take a look: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/796270
[14:12] <scott-work> falktx: i've read a bit on that bug and i do not have a clue on how to address it
[14:13] <falktx> scott-work: we don't have to do anything, it's ubuntu's fault
[14:13] <scott-work> i usually add the separate /hiome directory after installing
[14:13] <scott-work> other distros will allow a separate /home directory during installation :(
[14:14] <falktx> such as ubuntu
[14:14] <falktx> scott-work: I use this method too
[14:14] <falktx> (separate home and root9
[14:16] <falktx> we should link it to these bugs:
[14:16] <falktx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer
[14:17] <falktx> scott-work: I don't know how to link those bugs though...
[14:17] <scott-work> falktx: ubuntu has an option to use a separate /home directory during installation?
[14:17] <falktx> scott-work: yes, from quite some time
[14:18] <scott-work> falktx: where it is during the installation?
[14:18] <falktx> scott-work: you can even install /usr/local on a separate partition too
[14:18] <falktx> scott-work: the disk setup
[14:18] <falktx> (always in the disk setup)
[14:18] <scott-work> is this during the partition part?  manual partitioning?
[14:19] <falktx> scott-work: on the alternate cd/dvd you'll have to do things manually. on the live-cd you have a GUI option for it
[14:19] <scott-work> falktx: that's totally bizarre, i've never seen this option!
[14:20] <falktx> lol
[14:20] <scott-work> falktx: now i'm worried that i've missed it before
[14:20] <charlie-tca> It's not actually highly visible
[14:20] <charlie-tca> and is there for manual partitioning, not automatic partition, right?
[14:20] <falktx> nope, it's more like an avanced feature
[14:21] <scott-work> i've an extra computer and i'll install natty or maverick and see if i can find it
[14:21] <falktx> charlie-tca: in the ubuntu live-cd, if you don't have any partitions on disk, it will propose a separate home partition
[14:21] <charlie-tca> really?
[14:21] <falktx> if the disk already has stuff, ubuntu proposes to install ubuntu + old stuff resized
[14:22] <falktx> charlie-tca: yes, I'm 80% sure...
[14:22] <charlie-tca> Maybe I haven't used a new disk in too long
[14:22]  * falktx re-formats his PC very often
[14:22] <charlie-tca> I run installs every day or two, but usually have the disk with partitions already
[14:27] <scott-work> i am highly intrigued now, tonight i shall use gparted to format the entire disc first as one partition, then i will install natty as an experiment
[14:27] <scott-work> falktx: ^^^ this should propose a separate home parition, no?
[14:27] <falktx> scott-work: yes, on the live-cd
[14:28] <falktx> let me try to get a screen
[14:28] <scott-work> right, with the live-cd
[14:29] <falktx> hm, I only have the linux mint cd here
[14:32] <charlie-tca> scott-work: I want to know if it works for you
[14:32] <charlie-tca> I have never had it propose that on a guided install
[14:35] <scott-work> charlie-tca: i'd be glad to let you know, i've never had it propose to me either
[14:36] <falktx> I hope I'm not confusing Ubuntu with OpenSUSE on this
[14:36] <falktx> I'm already downloading the official 32bit iso just to test this
[15:01] <scott-work> lol
[15:11] <holstein> saidinesh5: thats good news
[15:11] <holstein> o/ everybody :)
[15:11]  * charlie-tca waves
[15:11] <holstein> saidinesh5: ive been playing more piano and guitar myself
[15:11] <saidinesh5> holstein: :)
actually the  interesting thing is i ve met a pretty junior girl, who is interested in both signal processing math and music (isnt it awsome combination!!)</secret>
[15:13] <saidinesh5> :P
[15:13] <holstein> good times
[15:13] <saidinesh5> So i have been digging up more and more resources, and she even writes for the college magazine
[15:14] <saidinesh5> so we shall even have a nice wiki of how to do things :)
[15:15] <saidinesh5> holstein: you got any tips for getting better co ordinating both hands?
[15:15] <saidinesh5> looks like i still suck miserably , when trying good pieces like turkish march .....
[15:15] <saidinesh5> or anything else....
[15:16] <saidinesh5> i can play both fine when using single hand, no matter which......
[15:16] <holstein> saidinesh5: actually, i do
[15:16] <saidinesh5> :D
[15:16] <holstein> drumming
[15:16] <saidinesh5> drumming??
[15:16] <holstein> even if its just with your hands on a book, or a table
[15:16] <saidinesh5> Oh i do that *all* the time
[15:16] <holstein> looking at rudiments
[15:16] <holstein> paradiddles
[15:17] <holstein> hemiolas
[15:17] <holstein> anything thats challenging like that
[15:17]  * saidinesh5 is googling
[15:17]  * saidinesh5 never had any formal music training.... its just play by ear, or play via. computer :P
[15:17] <holstein> get the notes out of the equation, and get the body making the large overall movements of the rhythyms
[15:18] <scott-work> hi holstein
[15:18] <holstein> scott-work: YO
[15:18]  * saidinesh5 waves at scott-work
[15:18] <holstein> saidinesh5: im the kind of musician that will argue you have been formally training yourself :)
[15:19] <saidinesh5> :D
[15:19] <saidinesh5> i mean its been quite a while since i started my keyboard..... like around 7 years....... last 4 years it kinda broke (it still is).....so turned to the flute
[15:20] <holstein> making yourself play nice even sounding steady notes while switching hands like
[15:20] <holstein> R L R L R L R L R R L L R R L L
[15:20] <holstein> making that ^^ sound like you *didnt* change hands
[15:21] <holstein> then some trickier things like R L R L R L R L R L L R R L L R
[15:21] <holstein> thats actually subtly challenging, and something even the most seasoned percussionist can alway work on
[15:21] <holstein> or the total beginner
[15:22]  * saidinesh5 was trying that out on his laptop
[15:22] <holstein> with a metronome too, really slow is fine
[15:23] <holstein> do this when you're alone, you dont want to try and impress your new girlfriend by doing it faster and faster ;)
[15:23] <holstein> slow and steady is the idea
[15:23] <saidinesh5> :)
[15:23] <holstein> i always say, practice make permanent
[15:23] <holstein> so, you just want to do it right
[15:23] <holstein> no matter what
[15:24] <holstein> even if its SUPER slow
[15:24] <saidinesh5> hmm... yaa....... already on it.......
[15:25] <saidinesh5> oh btw. holstein , is LADSPA still the standard when it comes to dsp plugins in linux audio??
[15:26] <saidinesh5> or am i a bit outdated?
[15:26] <holstein> good question
[15:27] <holstein> i think theres a newer set
[15:28] <saidinesh5> LV2 ?
[15:29] <holstein> saidinesh5: you should get the OSMP channel talking about it
[15:29] <holstein> i dont follow that enough to stay current
[15:29]  * saidinesh5 takes this question to OSMP .....
[16:21] <falktx> scott-work: charlie-tca1: I just noticed natty no longer has the separate home partition option now
[16:22] <falktx> they totally changed the installer app!
[16:22] <falktx> :(
[16:22] <falktx> I know I saw that option at some time...
[16:22] <saidinesh5> yes falktx, even i remember looking at it last time when i didnt use Wubi
[16:22] <scott-work> oh, so can i guess we can close that bug and say "won't fix" and tell them to file a bug against ubuntu to add that option
[16:23] <scott-work> or "invalid" perhaps would be better
[16:23] <falktx> scott-work: well, the bug happened on the alternate installer, not the live-cd
[16:23] <scott-work> falktx: have you used the TAL plugins (i know their in kxstudio)
[16:23] <falktx> scott-work: yes, they are quite good, specially the synth
[16:24] <scott-work> i think i'll file a bug with debian multimedia team to request packaging then
[16:24]  * scott-work is always looking for new plugins to include
[16:24] <falktx> scott-work: not possible, err... VSTs...
[16:24] <scott-work> falktx: oh...didn't realize that
[16:24] <scott-work> they looked soooo good too :(
[16:24] <falktx> scott-work: I'm trying to make them work as DSSI though
[16:25] <falktx> but I can only work on them later
[16:25] <falktx> anyway, right now, for VSTs, debs are here:
[16:25] <falktx> https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1547496/+listing-archive-extra
[16:25] <falktx> qtractor handles these (kinda)
[16:25] <charlie-tca1> That option went away maybe 2 releases ago, I think
[16:25] <scott-work> falktx: i just saw this:  http://www.renoise.com/board/index.php?/topic/27843-tal-plugins-native-linux-versions/
[16:25] <scott-work> says native linux versions
[16:26] <falktx> yes
[16:26] <falktx> I compiled them
[16:26] <scott-work> oh, lol
[16:26] <charlie-tca1> The only way to have separate root and /home is manually partitioning, and you can do it with the alternate cd
[16:27] <charlie-tca1> live cd does not allow you to enter the partition names, so you have to use the partitions they have named in the partition window.
[16:27] <falktx> scott-work: not sure if I already told you, but I plan to make a mega linux plugin pack, containing lots of (native) ladspa, dssi, lv2 and vsts
[16:28] <scott-work> that would be awesome
[16:28] <falktx> all pre-compiled for 32 and 64bit
[16:28] <falktx> I think the community really needs pre-compiled plugins now
[17:25] <scott-work> holstein: i was going to post meeting minutes but it looks like the motboot did a good job
[17:29] <holstein> scott-work: yeah, i got the minutes from the bot, and i copied and pasted it from my session
[17:30] <scott-work> there were a few other things that would be nice to document or mention but i'm not sure it's worth doing another list
[17:30] <scott-work> "things" = other mentions that weren't picked up by the bot
[20:00] <astraljava> Huh... luckily Startup Disk Creator worked even though it complained about incorrect version "GNU/Linux" on debian 6.0 netinst iso. :D
[20:28] <scott-work_> astraljava: is that for the mudita24 build?
[20:29] <astraljava> scott-work_: Yeah, gotta test that the package rolls a working application.
[20:29] <scott-work_> at some point i should really have a debian install somewhere
[20:30] <scott-work_> and i'm "old school", i still like images burned to CDs that i install onto harddrive
[20:30] <scott-work_> which is actually not a very efficient use admittedly
[20:30] <astraljava> Yeah I normally do that too, but since now I have a test machine that boots from a usb drive, I save on discs. :D
[20:31] <scott-work_> yeah, i know :(
[21:58]  * astraljava is finding the delving into debian a cool change of pace, got distracted for a while on #debian-devel @ irc.debian.org :D
[21:59] <astraljava> Although I do seem to make it as ubuntu-like as possible, I guess I got used to some habits already, which are now hard to die.
[22:07] <astraljava> NP: Royal Hunt - Moving Target (album), man... I had forgotten what a masterpiece this is.
[22:19] <astraljava> Sorry for the blatant plug, but clearly all the greatest musicians come from Finland.  Just don't have a proper sound card there, which the application correctly reports. Does that count as success? :D
[22:33] <astraljava> I need to buy a few more hard drives.
[22:33] <astraljava> Looks like I need to have several differents systems running on this same machine.
[23:28] <ScottL> astraljava, how many do you think you will need?
[23:29] <astraljava> ScottL: Well, to be effectively testing on at least the latest LTS and current stable, develop on current devel and sid, plus a data disk, that means 5. :)
[23:34] <astraljava> Okay, I've got one already, as the other one crapped out just mere weeks ago. Fortunately didn't have any precious data on it.
[23:34] <astraljava> So, 4 more. I can live with 3 only, as I've got a usb drive, that can act as the data drive.
[23:35] <astraljava> But still I need to figure out a sensible /home organization, as they can't possibly share a mutual one.
[23:35] <astraljava> Okay, done for the day. Can still catch a few hours of sleep before the work begins. G'night! :)
[23:36] <charlie-tca> astraljava: I use a 80Gb drive with separate root and /home for each installation. give root about 6GB and home 4gb.
[23:37] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Impossible, as I need to be able to do "guided - use whole disk" test cases.
[23:38] <charlie-tca> Oh, yeah. For that I have a separate 20gb drive
[23:39] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Yep. And also, I often wanna play quite a bit on different releases. For that I need space. For instance, a couple of games eat several gigabytes (the sources).
[23:40] <charlie-tca> true also
[23:40] <charlie-tca> That's why I use the 80GB drive. I can give some installs more space with it.
[23:40] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Obviously I could use the data disk for storing those, but there are cases when it doesn't work.
[23:43] <astraljava> But what with the prices of the disks these days...
[23:44] <ScottL> i couldn't fit five drives into any of my cases :P
[23:45] <charlie-tca> heh, I guess mine might be a bit old. I can get them in the case, but the motherboard usually handles 4
[23:46] <charlie-tca> I have one case holds 5 x 3.5 drives, plus 4 x 5.25 drives
[23:46] <charlie-tca> and, yes, it is a big case


[00:35] <xu-irc46w> good morning
[00:36] <xu-irc46w> i installed xubunto on second hard drive pc wont boot , unless i press f11 during boot , ok so i uninstalled xbunto now i get some screen abouit grub ?
[00:37] <xu-irc46w> is there a book i can get some where ? all the help online is old
[00:39] <xu-irc46w> oh great my win setting have changed?
[00:39] <xu-irc46w> hello
[00:39] <xu-irc90w> hello
[00:39] <xu-irc90w> ok every time i hit enter page moves wtf
[00:40] <xu-irc90w> is there any one to help like linux software claims so far this is third linux ive tryed no good so far
[00:41] <xu-irc90w> i in stalled xbunto on other drive pc wont boot unless i press f11 during boot ?
[00:42] <xu-irc90w> that was no good so i uninstalled xbunto now i get aboot screen looks like dos , some stuff about grub
[00:43] <xu-irc90w> 5 42 am going to look for coffee
[00:43] <xu-irc90w> pm
[00:45] <xu-irc90w> hello any one there?
[00:46] <xu-irc90w> damn screen moves every time i hit enter wtf
[00:46] <xu-irc90w> i need help please
[00:46] <tomreyn> xu-irc90w: sometimes it takes some patience to find someone to asnwer your questions
[00:46] <xu-irc90w> damn first person whos said some thing
[00:46] <tomreyn> if you need a better irc client than the webchat, you could install hexchat
[00:47] <xu-irc90w> ive waited hours on other sites
[00:47] <xu-irc90w> now if stupid page would stop moving
[00:47] <xu-irc90w> i dont know what hex chat is ok
[00:48] <xu-irc90w> im disabled learning disabled autism , im trying to not use win 7 any more but people have made it very difficult
[00:48] <xu-irc90w> not easy to switch
[00:48] <xu-irc90w> like is there a book ?
[00:48] <tomreyn> this web chat you're using connects to an IRC network, which is a chat protocol. there are much better ways to use IRC, heyxchat is one of several softwares you could install that would enable that.
[00:49] <xu-irc90w> im not changeing win 7 with more software
[00:49] <xu-irc90w> i tryed to install xbunto and it wont boot unless i press f11 ever after uninstalling it
[00:50] <xu-irc90w> now when i boot i get ados like screen about grub ?
[00:50] <tomreyn> i'm not going to discuss windows or windows vs linux, but generally, you should definitely not run an end of support life operating system connected to the internet.
[00:50] <xu-irc90w> ha ha thats what i said
[00:50] <xu-irc90w> guess your no help
[00:50] <tomreyn> it's not clear what you mean by "uninstalling xubuntu", since there's no such thing
[00:51] <xu-irc90w> every freaking time :(
[00:51] <xu-irc90w> if i dont say the word exactly right its im a bad person , but when i dont understand yall its all ha
[00:51] <tomreyn> what do you mean?
[00:52] <tomreyn> i don't think you're a bad person, why would i?
[00:53] <xu-irc90w> it wont boot into win unless i press f11 during start like after i press power button i go to keyboard and press f11 get option for lots of stuff like grub uiefi grub stuff and win 7
[00:54] <xu-irc90w> so that was no good so i format the other drive now it boots into some thing that looks like dos with some words about grub
[00:54] <tomreyn> you seem to have a computer which supports both uefi and legacy bios boot (also known as "CSM"). F11 seems to show the boot (override) menu on this computer.
[00:54] <tomreyn> some of the options presented there will be for uefi booting, others for bios booting
[00:55] <tomreyn> grb is the boot loader used by most linux distributions, including (x)ubuntu
[00:55] <tomreyn> *grub
[00:55] <xu-irc90w> ok how do i make it not do that and just boot back into win7 like before?
[00:56] <xu-irc90w> other linux stuff that did not work out i just format the drive and reboot nothing changed untill xubunto
[00:56] <tomreyn> if you changed bios configurations before you installed xubuntu, then undo them, and windows should be able to boot the same way as it did previously
[00:56] <xu-irc90w> i did not change bios setting
[00:57] <xu-irc90w> so xbunto broke my machine and no body will take resonability
[00:57] <xu-irc90w> maybe come up with a boot manager atleast if your going to push crap software that dont work right
[00:58] <xu-irc90w> :(
[00:58] <tomreyn> you know, i'm volunteering my spare time to answer some of your questions, you should not treat me that way.
[00:58] <xu-irc90w> great no help and now i got to spend hours looking up how to fix my computer
[00:59] <xu-irc90w> treating what way ?
[00:59] <tomreyn> if this is a repeating scene, maybe there is a constant in the whole thing you should look at more closely
[00:59] <xu-irc90w> im just typing
[00:59] <xu-irc90w> im disabled and linux is not easy at all every thing is a struggle
[00:59] <tomreyn> sorry to hear that
[01:00] <tomreyn> i think ubuntu may be easier in terms of scessibility features
[01:00] <xu-irc90w> great my pc is broke and no help :(
[01:01] <xu-irc90w> ubunto i couldnt get to work like i coundnt get linux other stuff to work , its so confussing not easy at all
[01:01] <tomreyn> i'm tired, maybe we can give this another try in some 10 or so hours
[01:01] <xu-irc90w> on a fixed income cant afford anew pc
[01:01] <xu-irc90w> when this one dies im done with the inter net
[01:02] <xu-irc90w> your were of no help
[01:02] <xu-irc90w> is there some who can help
[01:02] <tomreyn> okay, i'm retreating said offer, have a nice life.
[01:03] <xu-irc90w> i cant tell but i think you were rude to me
[01:03] <xu-irc90w> ok any one else of any help or is it just like every time i need help its crickets some comunity
[01:05] <xu-irc90w> goddamn liars all of the nurotypicals have made this world nuthing but hell fuck you all
[01:05] <xu-irc90w> thats for fucking my computer up and not oferany help
[01:05] <xu-irc90w> fuck all the nurotypicals
[01:31] <xu-irc44w> can i get real help not bull shit like last time linux fucked my pc
[01:32] <xu-irc44w> now i have to boot and press f11
[01:32] <xu-irc44w> linux fucked my pc i need real help
[01:55] <W7> i am trying to install pip on xubuntu 21.10 using apt because it is missing and i get this error https://pastebin.com/yMBhWGcq
[01:57] <tomreyn> if you prefer downloading from the web you should disable (comment out) the "cdrom" lines in /etc/apt/sources.list
[02:00] <W7> thanks I fixed it
[15:58] <xu-irc43w> hello
[15:59] <xu-irc43w> new to xubuntu
[15:59] <xu-irc43w> whenever i open fonts from applications menu, system becomes unresponsive
[15:59] <xu-irc43w> anyone here facing this same issue ?
[16:15] <xu-irc43w> is there a open bug on this  ?
[16:21] <Mekaneck> xu-irc43w: try searching launchpad for bug reports
[16:23] <xu-irc43w> ok
[16:25] <xu-irc43w> i dont have launchpad accounts
[16:25] <xu-irc43w> is there any open urls to find bug reports
[16:26] <xu-irc43w> got it https://bugs.launchpad.net
[16:28] <GridCloud> something like this xu-irc43w ? https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=14659
[16:28] <GridCloud> this person seemed to have a faulty drive tho
[16:29] <GridCloud> what application is the one failing xu-irc43w ?
[16:47] <xu-irc43w> fonts
[16:47] <xu-irc43w> one that in Accessories
[16:52] <GridCloud> xu-irc43w: have you tried loggin in as guest and see if the problem persists?
[16:52] <xu-irc43w> i haven't tried that
[16:53] <xu-irc43w> But tried with multiple times with same account, still issue persist
[16:54] <xu-irc43w> This is fresh os
[17:00] <sophie> i tried it just now on 20.04. it certainly works my computer for a moment. takes a while to come up and uses some ram
[17:01] <sophie> could it be it needs more resources than you have
[17:01] <sophie> in fact. i just minimised the fonts application to type here, and now it wont come back up. does seem to be an issue there
[17:02] <sophie> also could try turning off compositing in window manager tweaks. having that on has given me weird issues like this, and the system seems stabler with it off
[17:06] <xu-irc43w> Looks like a prebuilt issue
[17:56] <xu-irc43w> Turning off compositor, helps
[17:56] <xu-irc43w> After turning off compositor in settings, now able to open fonts app.
[17:57] <xu-irc43w> sophie you are right, turning off compositor fonts app opens without issues.
[17:57] <sophie> :) glad it's sorted!
[17:57] <xu-irc43w> GridCloud its issues with compositor
[17:58] <xu-irc43w> sophie yeah, thanks.
[17:58] <GridCloud> mmm
[17:58] <GridCloud> weird
[17:59] <GridCloud> what release are you using?
[18:00] <xu-irc43w> 5.11.0-38-generic #42~20.04.1-Ubuntu
[18:01] <GridCloud> question, do you have a .fonts folder in your ~/ directory?
[18:02] <xu-irc43w> let me have a quick look, wait pls
[18:02] <GridCloud> though if composition helped the problem is probably with rendering some font under composition
[18:03] <xu-irc43w> GridCloud nope .fonts folder is not there
[18:03] <GridCloud> interesting so it's not a custom font
[18:03] <xu-irc43w> ok
[18:07] <xu-irc43w> is this really needed ? command: fc-cache -f -v
[18:08] <GridCloud> i don't know what that does
[18:08] <xu-irc43w> rebuilding the font information
[18:09] <xu-irc43w> just got from here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fonts
[18:10] <GridCloud> oh i think that just rebuilds the cache list of fonts
[18:10] <GridCloud> so it would display the font name on drop down lists when you install a new font
[18:10] <xu-irc43w> ok
[18:12] <GridCloud> try re-enabling composition and see if the crash happens on some of those drop down lists? like in libreoffice?
[18:12] <GridCloud> or when you choose a font on the xfce4-terminal?
[18:14] <GridCloud> you could also try to launch gnome-font-viewer from a terminal and see the crash report?
[18:14] <xu-irc43w> ok wait
[18:16] <xu-irc43w> crap, now it opening without issue, turned on compositor, now fonts app opens without issue
[18:16] <xu-irc43w> ?!!! confused
[18:16] <GridCloud> ah
[18:17] <GridCloud> yes good old magic
[18:17] <xu-irc43w> But !! what i have done ? what could be the issue here
[18:17] <GridCloud> no idea
[18:18] <GridCloud> maybe a font wasn't rendering properly, maybe re enabling it reseted soemthing that was being stubborn, maybe the gods smile at you
[18:20] <xu-irc43w> :)
[18:24] <tomreyn> xu-irc43w: the kernel version you posted seems to suggest you're on xubuntu 21.04 "hirsute" - note that 21.10 is released and you have 2 months left to upgrade.
[18:24] <tomreyn> *3 months
[18:28] <xu-irc43w> tomreyn oh i installed this xubuntu today, the link provided in LTS is this, will check and upgrade to next LTS.
[18:29] <tomreyn> xu-irc43w: i was just guessing based on your kernel version - but the version i mentioned is not an LTS release
[18:29] <tomreyn> xu-irc43w: lsb_release -ds   will print what you have
[18:29] <tomreyn> there is also /etc/os-release
[18:30] <tomreyn> i'm sorry, i missed the "20.04.1-Ubuntu" part. apparently you're using a 20.04 HWE kernel image
[18:32] <xu-irc43w> NAME="Ubuntu"
[18:32] <xu-irc43w> VERSION="20.04.3 LTS (Focal Fossa)"
[18:32] <xu-irc43w> ID=ubuntu
[18:32] <xu-irc43w> ID_LIKE=debian
[18:32] <xu-irc43w> PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS"
[18:32] <xu-irc43w> VERSION_ID="20.04"
[18:32] <tomreyn> !paste | xu-irc43w
[18:33] <tomreyn> xu-irc43w: so if you're on 20.04 LTS (and don't want to move away from an LTS release) then you shouldn't upgrade, yet
[18:33] <xu-irc43w> ok
[18:33] <tomreyn> because there is no newer LTS release, yet - that will be 22.04 in 04/2022 (thus the version name).
[18:41] <tomreyn> xu-irc43w: if you wanted to get a better idea of what went wrong with the fonts, you could read your system logs: journalctl -b
[18:42] <tomreyn> (but this is where almost everything logs to, so it's pretty crammy)
[18:43] <xu-irc43w> where this logs stays in ?
[18:47] <xu-irc43w> is this '/var/log/syslog' ?
[18:54] <xu-irc43w> tomreyn here is the log with regard to fonts app crashing will this help ? https://pastebin.com/2wV70rmX
[18:58] <tomreyn> xu-irc43w: these logs are stored in a database (which gets automatically shorted regularly to not take too much disk space) in /var/log/journal
[18:59] <tomreyn> xu-irc43w: it does tell us that the font viewer really crashed, i.e. the program got closed because it programmatically failed
[19:26] <xu-irc43w> tomreyn Thanks for the help
[19:27] <tomreyn> xu-irc43w: you're welcome
[22:14] <W7> is there a way to make autonomous updates on xubuntu update to xubuntu not ubuntu because my laptop is not able to run ubuntu and it is causing me trouble
[22:21] <krytarik> W7: Regardless of what exactly you mean by "update", it won't transform the install to Ubuntu to begin with.


[07:40] <sherr> I have noticed this morning that someone called "Khazar" in #ubuntu-server has been making some extremely racist posts e.g. 05:14 UTC. Not sure if this has been dealt with, but the log is very ugly. Whoever this is, should be kicked and banned.
[07:44] <persia> It has been dealt with (unfortunately the response time was slow due to timezones: needed a european)
[07:45] <persia> The log won't be adjusted, in the interest of having true logs.
[07:55] <sherr> persia: Thanks.
[13:01] <xnox> topyli: Hello. Can you please give an Ubuntu member cloak? https://launchpad.net/~dmitrij.ledkov
[13:03] <xnox> nhandler:I bet it's still night over in Americas but would you be able to give me Ubuntu member cloak? https://launchpadnet/~dmitrij.ledkov
[13:05] <topyli> xnox, just a sec please
[13:05] <xnox> topyli: ok thank you =)
[13:07] <topyli> xnox, confused, because launchpad doesn't show you as a member of the members team
[13:07] <topyli> how recently exactly did you become one? :)
[13:07] <xnox> topyli: I'm member of ~universe-contributors
[13:07] <xnox> ~universe-contributors is a subteam of Ubuntu Members
[13:08] <xnox> https://edge.launchpad.net/~universe-contributors
[13:08] <rww> topyli: https://launchpad.net/~dmitrij.ledkov/+participation , right column :)
[13:08] <topyli> ahhhh
[13:09] <topyli> nhandler, niko, Pricey et al, can we have an ubuntu member cloak for xnox please?
[13:10] <topyli> so many are away it's almost like sunday! :)
[13:12] <topyli> poking VorTechS for good measure
[13:12] <xnox> Yeap =) this is the furthest I got actually past couple of attempts a few weeks ago noone actually replied on this channel.
[13:13] <topyli> cheers for membership though!
[13:14] <xnox> =) thanks ;-)
[16:08] <nhandler> topyli: Do we still need a cloak for xnox ?
[16:09] <topyli> nhandler, yes
[16:09]  * xnox is here =)
[16:12] <nhandler> xnox: You are now all set
[16:12] <xnox> =) awesome
[16:12] <xnox> topyli: nhandler: thanks a lot!
[16:12] <xnox> \0/
[16:12] <topyli> cheers!
[16:12] <topyli> thanks nhandler
[16:13] <nhandler> :)
[17:34] <crimsun> there's still a limit on the number of additions to a cloak that one may have, correct?
[17:41] <guntbert> someone in #ubuntu asked for "ubuntu translators channel" - is there one?
[17:43] <m4v> maybe any #ubuntu-l10n-* channel?
[17:44] <guntbert> m4v: worth a try
[17:45] <m4v> uhm, there's only one?
[17:45] <m4v> alis shows only u-l10n-es which is kind of strange, there were more
[17:46] <guntbert> m4v: thought so too
[17:50] <m4v> guntbert: #ubuntu-translators
[17:51] <guntbert> m4v: thx - care to tell me the search string you used?
[17:51] <m4v> /alis list *ubuntu*transla*
[17:51] <m4v> :P
[17:52] <guntbert> m4v: so * work inside too !! great
[17:55] <m4v> I thought the naming convention was to use l10n for translating channels (like in mail lists) but it seems this isn't the case
[17:56] <nhandler> guntbert: You need to use a * most of the time with alis when trying to find channels
[17:56] <guntbert> nhandler: yes, I'm used to using two - but just learned that three also work :-)
[17:57] <m4v> it seems you can add as many as you want
[17:58] <guntbert> m4v: in the light of that: probably
[18:04] <m4v> hum! #kubuntu-es contact's are erUSUL and p3l|c4n0? tsk tsk


[16:41] <x033gg> question when i go to my login window i can see the last user who logged into the machine, how can i hide this like on a debian install making a user enter username and password


[02:41] <duncanm> amitk: hey
[05:08] <duncanm> ssbar
[05:08] <duncanm> bar
[05:08] <duncanm> eek
[11:11] <Kano> hi, when do you merge <IP_ADDRESS>?
[11:12] <maks_> <IP_ADDRESS> is the interesting target :D
[11:13] <Kano> i mean for hardy
[11:13] <Kano> security issues if you dont know
[11:14] <Kano> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-intrepid.git;a=commitdiff;h=c1838f1600cc7196363a23da1f76869600e17da1
[11:14] <Kano> can you show me where you see 0x1430, 0x4748 in upstream?
[11:15] <amitk> Kano: check the kernel-team mailing list. smb posted a list of patches that are being considered from the stable series
[11:19] <Kano> with a pure 2.6.25 it definitely does not work
[11:21] <amitk> Kano: I am not sure, wait for rtg to come online or ask on the mailing list
[11:21] <Kano> well i can compile your git code too, then i know it, but it did not work with standard 2.6.25
[11:22] <Kano> will you revert the usb gpl only code?
[11:27] <Kano> or do you just drop the usb modules from avm?
[15:33] <rtg> tjaalton: I just upload LRM -17.35 with a simple ABI bump.
[15:39] <tjaalton> rtg: ok, cool
[15:58] <gnomefreak> tjaalton: you have a minute?
[15:58] <gnomefreak> tjaalton: is there a way for X to work around nvidia crashing X?
[16:01] <rtg> tjaalton: speaking of LRM, can you build a package for Intrepid? See http://ppa.launchpad.net/kernel-ppa/ubuntu for headers and stuff. I'm going to announce the Intrepid daily build pretty soon.
[16:02] <amitk> rtg: can new drivers be added to .1?
[16:03] <amitk> I am thinking specifically about ov51x-jpeg instead of the ov511 that we have in LUM
[16:05] <amitk> ...even with the evil in-kernel jpeg
[16:05] <amitk> compression
[16:08] <tjaalton> rtg: no problem, I'll probably have time to do it later this evening
[16:08] <tjaalton> gnomefreak: dunno, how does it crash?
[16:09] <gnomefreak> tjaalton: scrolling on a page well 1 confirmed page and all crashes have 8600 or 8800 nvidia card with our drivers
[16:09] <gnomefreak> tjaalton: see bug 224966
[16:09] <gnomefreak> tjaalton: im wondering if xul is involed atm but i will ping asac about that later when i have something to base it on
[16:10] <gnomefreak> noone can give me a backtrace just a couple of errors
[16:11] <tjaalton> gnomefreak: I have a 8600GT.. :)
[16:12] <gnomefreak> tjaalton: can you please get me one lol
[16:12] <tjaalton> they are cheap ;)
[16:14] <rtg> amitk: perhaps. it is going to change current jpeg compression behavior in the general case?
[16:17] <Kano> rtg: hi, does anybody want to add <IP_ADDRESS> to hardy kernel?
[16:18] <laga> 2.6.26?
[16:18] <tjaalton> gnomefreak: yep, crashes here too
[16:18] <rtg> Kano: only on a case by case basis.
[16:18] <Kano> err <IP_ADDRESS>
[16:18] <rtg> Kano: I knew what yuou meant :)
[16:18] <gnomefreak> tjaalton: thought it would something with nvidia drivers have never been good with 6200 and up cards
[16:18] <Kano> can you tell me how to merge that correctly? when i get an error that it cant be merged?
[16:19] <rtg> Kano: well, you have to resolve the merge issues. git pretty much tells you what to do when the merge fails.
[16:20] <Kano> well then the file hals [16:21] <rtg> Kano: right. Start your search for '<<<', which is where the offending entries begin.
[16:21] <Kano> well then i commited the change, i guess i made it right then
[16:22] <Kano> for .5 there was only 1 wrong file
[16:22] <Kano> did not try .6 yet
[16:22] <tseliot> gnomefreak: it doesn't crash here (Geforce 7300) however I'm using my own (customised) packages based on the lrm
[16:23] <Kano> rtg: will you revert the usb gpl only patch?
[16:23] <Kano> from 2.6.25
[16:24] <rtg> Kano: I do not know about this issue.
[16:24] <Kano> try to compile avm usb modules
[16:25] <Kano> like fwlan
[16:25] <Kano> you have got those in lrm
[16:25] <Kano> and every other avm usb module
[16:26] <rtg> Kano: I haven't the foggiest idea what you are talking about.  To my knowledge the Hardy LRM has no build issues.
[16:26] <Kano> rtg: 2.6.25 is in your intrepid git
[16:27] <rtg> Kano: for which we don yet have an LRM package.
[16:27] <Kano> well does not matter, the drivers will not compile
[16:27] <rtg> tjaalton: is just now starting to think about LRM for Intrepid.
[16:28] <Kano> for testing i added a patch for fglrx 2.6.25 (x64) and a revert patch for usb
[16:31] <rtg> Kano: you're on your own there. Its gonna be July before I get really interested in Intrepid problems.
[16:32] <maks_> using fglrx is stupid enough
[16:33] <tseliot> maks_: no flame-baits, please
[16:47] <Kano> rtg: also it seems that the dmraid in lum does not work, at least Rabiddog has problems
[16:48] <Kano> the module is there but it is not recognized
[16:49] <rtg> Kano: which lum? Hardy or Intrepid?
[16:49] <Kano> hardy
[16:49] <Kano> i would like to test it myself, but i only have got 2 similar drives, not 3
[18:03] <mdomsch> rtg: http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/5/2/205
[18:03] <mdomsch> will be needed for the server kernel
[18:04] <rtg> mdomsch: backported for Hardy I assume?
[18:04] <mdomsch> rtg, yeah
[18:05] <mdomsch> soon as ingo pushes it to linus for .26 and -stable picks it up
[18:05] <rtg> mdomsch: I'm working on SRUs, so this is a good time to git 'er done.
[18:06] <mdomsch> I'm filing a bug in LP now
[18:06] <rtg> mdomsch: I'll watch the .7 stable updates for this (when they appear).
[18:06] <mdomsch> to track
[18:06] <mdomsch> hmm, I read on lwn that there wouldn't be .7
[18:06] <mdomsch> or did I misread?
[18:06] <rtg> mdomsch: oh, thats right.
[18:07] <rtg> mdomsch: well, even if it goes into 25.y it ought to work.
[18:07] <rtg> mdomsch: lemme know the LP number and I'll assign myself to it so I don't forget.
[18:09] <SEJeff> Is CONFIG_VERSION_SIGNATURE an ubuntu specific config option?
[18:09] <rtg> SEJeff: yeah, I think so.
[18:10] <SEJeff> rtg, Ok so in Re: the btrfs failing miserably on ubuntu thread... could we do like SUSE and use CONFIG_VERSION_SIGNATURE instead of CONFIG_SUSE?
[18:11] <rtg> SEJeff: that doesn't mean the AA patches exist. Intrepid won't get them for awhile. I still think the CONFIG search is the best approach.
[18:12] <mdomsch> rtg, LP 225811
[18:12] <SEJeff> Ok so how about an explicit test for the hardy kernel version? If it is a user built kernel, they will know enough to apply a patch manually?
[18:14] <rtg> SEJeff: I don't spend a lot of time supporting user built kernels. Its not that I don't care, I just don't have time. So, if they know enough to apply the patches, then more power to them. Otherwise, they are on their own.
[18:14] <SEJeff> rtg, something like: http://pastebin.com/m64b6a4dc
[18:15] <SEJeff> rtg, That was my point. You are agreeing with me. If it is a stock ubuntu hardy kernel, that would catch it. A stock hardy kernel has apparmor applied
[18:15] <rtg> SEJeff: that definitely works for Hardy.
[18:16] <SEJeff> Ok well then I'll respond to that thread, Chris can put that in btrfs, and we can happily test the next get linux filesystem. Thanks
[18:16] <rtg> SEJeff: np.
[18:18] <SEJeff> rtg, One last thing. Would it be a better idea to do a version check for each official ubuntu kernel with apparmor?
[18:22] <rtg> SEJeff: I can't remember when the AA patches appeared. with Feisty? You know, I'm still not sure why CONFIG_SECURITY_APPARMOR isn't sufficient? If the AA patches have been applied, then the Ubuntu kernel won't compile unless CONFIG_SECURITY_APPARMOR=y. So, I can guarantee the AA code is compiled.
[18:23] <SEJeff> Is that because it is such an invasive patch and doesn't ifdef everything out?
[18:24] <rtg> SEJeff: pretty much. I think remove_suid() is a good example. The prototype is changed, but not guarded by an AA ifdef.
[18:25] <rtg> SEJeff: it would take long to verify that for sure.
[18:25] <rtg> s/wwould/wouldn't/
[18:25] <SEJeff> rtg, Alright, I'll do a few compile tests with CONFIG_SECURITY_APPARMOR disabled on hardy kernels
[18:25] <SEJeff> rtg, Thanks
[18:25] <rtg> SEJeff: ok, let me know if I'm completely wrong.
[18:52] <SEJeff> rtg, compile test without APPARMOR builds, tried it twice. make -j8 is a great thing
[18:52] <SEJeff> It gives some nasty warnings so I'm not sure how well it would work
[18:56] <Rabiddog> re: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/220493
[18:56] <Rabiddog> does anyone know what changed from kernel 2.6.24-12 to 2.6.24-16 that affected dmraid?
[19:00] <rtg> SEJeff: drat. All I can say is that Ubuntu isn't gonna apply the AA patches without also compiling them. I think its safe to assume CONFIG_SECURITY_APPARMOR will always be 'y'
[19:00] <SEJeff> And upstream will likely also agree with that. It is a safe assumption to assume the user is smart if the case is otherwise
[19:01] <rtg> SEJeff: The user best be smart :)
[19:01] <Rabiddog> The following error "ERROR: device-mapper target type "raid45" not in kernel" is occuring
[19:02] <smb> Rabiddog: Might be just a naming problem
[19:02] <calc> rtg: do you recall which bug number is about the key stuck scheduler related bug?
[19:03] <calc> i'm seeing 188226 but that doesn't appear to be the one i saw before
[19:03] <smb> Rabiddog: I just got a PPA ready for testing https://launchpad.net/~stefan-bader-canonical/+archive
[19:03] <Rabiddog> smb, any idea how to fix it? my raid array is no longer recognized, in gutsy and buddy of mine compiled a new kernel for me
[19:03] <Rabiddog> k looking at that
[19:04] <Rabiddog> PPA stand for what?
[19:04] <smb> Rabiddog: Personal Package Archive
[19:04] <Rabiddog> I see...does it have a fix for that in it?
[19:05] <smb> Rabiddog: IOW someplace to put stuff to try. I hope so. MAinly I just made sure the module is named in a more standard way
[19:05] <rtg> calc: I think it was this one: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-hardy.git;a=commit;h=4b7c68904bf9ada8c4770ce5927e8ec71769ed92
[19:05] <Rabiddog> Well I'm willing to test, I'll add those sources to apt
[19:05]  * Rabiddog flips screens
[19:05] <calc> rtg: yea :)
[19:06] <calc> bug 218516 was the one i saw before :)
[19:06] <smb> Rabiddog: Great. Let me know whether this helps
[19:06] <calc> a user was mentioning they were bitten by what sounds like that bug
[19:06] <Rabiddog> gimme a few gotta manually copy the sources
[19:06] <calc> rtg: is it fixed in hardy-proposed/hardy-updates yet?
[19:06] <rtg> calc: its an SRU in -proposed. I'll upload -meta in a bit (which should complete the whole ABI bump process)
[19:07] <calc> rtg: ok
[19:14] <Rabiddog> smb
[19:14] <smb> Rabiddog: yo
[19:14] <Rabiddog> inux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 - 2.6.24-16.23ubuntu4 <--- is this the package I should upgrade?
[19:14] <smb> Rabiddog: yes
[19:14] <Rabiddog> k
[19:14] <Rabiddog> sec
[19:19] <Rabiddog> rebooting the box now :)
[19:21] <Rabiddog> The following error "ERROR: device-mapper target type "raid45" not in kernel" is still occuring, smb
[19:21] <Rabiddog> hmm however
[19:21] <smb> Rabiddog: Thats bad
[19:22] <smb> Rabiddog: does lsmod show a dm-raid45 or dm_raid45
[19:22] <smb> ?
[19:22] <mdomsch> rtg: LP 225811 if you'd take it please
[19:23] <Rabiddog> sec...it gave the error but my hdd array loaded
[19:23] <Rabiddog> checking lsmod
[19:24] <smb> Rabiddog: likewise "dmsetup targets" should list it as well. If yes, maybe the msg is just an initial warning before loading the module
[19:28] <Rabiddog> shows dm_raid45
[19:29] <Rabiddog>  is that bad or good, smb
[19:30] <smb> Rabiddog: I would count is as good. If dmsetup shows dmraid45 as target as well, well then it should work
[19:30] <Rabiddog> sec checking that
[19:31] <smb> Rabiddog: And one final thing: "dmsetup table" should list something with dmraid45 as well (if that is used)
[19:32] <Rabiddog> dmsetup targets shows just "raid45"
[19:32] <Rabiddog> raid45 as well
[19:32] <Rabiddog> for tables
[19:32] <smb> Rabiddog: Not linear?
[19:32] <Rabiddog> huh
[19:33] <smb> Rabiddog: linear is a built in target of device-mapper. Should normally be there
[19:33] <Rabiddog> sec
[19:34] <Rabiddog> yep its there first line
[19:34] <Rabiddog> forgive me I may have compiled kernels but I'm still a bit of a noob :)
[19:34] <smb> Rabiddog: So that looks good setup wise.  No prob.
[19:35] <smb> Rabiddog: So before, there were the messages and the array was not created and now we still have the message but it is
[19:35] <Rabiddog> ok.... now this adventure broke my nvidia drivers for sum reason....lol
[19:36] <Rabiddog> smb, k
[19:36] <Rabiddog> thanx...is that all that needs testing smb?
[19:38] <smb> Rabiddog: Hm, strange. I guess one thing. I would put some updates to bud 22ß403. Maybe you could add some coments from your test
[19:38] <smb> bug 220493
[19:40] <Rabiddog> doh tat links to bugzilla of mozilla
[19:41] <smb> Rabiddog: launchpad. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/220493
[19:43] <Rabiddog> k as soon as I get my video drivers working, dang thing is launching a bad video mode when I log into gnome
[19:43] <Rabiddog> can't figure out how to delete the default setting
[19:49]  * Rabiddog sighs and runs off to another channel to figure out his next issue
[20:52] <Rabiddog> smb: I added a comment https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/220493/comments/4
[20:55] <smb> Rabiddog: Ok, thanks. Hopefully this helps others as well. And then maybe that qualifies as simple quirk... Let's see
[20:56] <Rabiddog> k
[20:58] <Kano> btw. the dmraid should be patched too
[20:59] <Kano> in 3 positions
[20:59] <Kano> init script, then the module should be added to initramfs, then it should be loaded in initramfs
[21:02] <Rabiddog> looks at smb
[21:02] <smb> Kano: That would be a different story (domain).
[21:04] <Rabiddog> heh, I forgot I still have have modprobe -Q dm-raid4-5 in my initramfs script
[21:05] <smb> Rabiddog: That was the old name. Should not do anything now
[21:05] <Rabiddog> ah k
[21:07] <Rabiddog> bah dc ftw
[21:13] <Rabiddog_Biteme> hmm
[21:13] <Rabiddog> hmm
[21:14] <Rabiddog> woot :)
[21:14] <Rabiddog> thanx for your help smb
[21:14] <smb> Rabiddog: ur welcome :)
[21:15] <Rabiddog> and now u know it works except for the quirk
[21:18] <smb> Rabiddog: Yup. Thanks for trying
[21:21] <Kano> btw. the dm name is correct
[21:21] <Kano> no need to change that
[21:22] <Kano> dm-raid4-5 is the name from the official patch too
[21:22] <smb> Kano: But that was the only change I made between not working and working.
[21:23] <Kano> it never had a differnet name..
[21:23] <smb> Kano: Most other modules keep their names close to the target name. So autoload works.
[21:24] <Kano> well you need to put it in the initrd anyway
[21:24] <Kano> or you need to use another hd for booting
[21:25] <smb> Kano: sure. Though I don't see this likely for Hardy after it is now released.
[21:27] <Kano> maybe fast enough for a service relase
[21:27] <Kano> as you want to support it serveral years ;)
[21:27]  * Rabiddog eyes the gnome Ui windows bug that cropping up
[21:28] <Kano> btw. the lum for intrepid does not compile, missing unionfs include
[21:28]  * Rabiddog eyes the hal mod and its bugs
[21:29] <Kano> can i copy the aufs folder to the hardy lum?
[21:32] <Rabiddog> kano whats is lum btw?
[21:34] <Kano> also it was 100% wrong to drop my patch for the guitar, it does not work with your intrepid git
[21:34] <Kano> nothing in upstream
[21:35] <Kano> at least not the guitar
[22:05] <pwnguin> guitar?
[22:05] <pwnguin> in kernel?
[22:05] <Kano> the xbox guitar
[22:06] <pwnguin> Kano: why isn't it in the kernel.org?
[22:06] <Kano> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-intrepid.git;a=commit;h=c1838f1600cc7196363a23da1f76869600e17da1
[22:06] <Kano> thats my patch
[22:06] <pwnguin> that seems like a simple patch to pass upstream
[22:06] <Kano> and the guitar does not work with 2.6.25
[22:07] <pwnguin> 2.6.25 would work with the extra identifier though?
[22:08] <Kano> did not try yet, i only added some other patches to fix build problems
[22:08] <Kano> tested it before with the debian trunk kernel
[22:08] <pwnguin> I'm just saying if it works, you might as well get it included in kernel.org
[22:09] <pwnguin> its The Right Thing To Do
[22:09] <Kano> well i made it for 2.6.24
[22:09] <Kano> and there it works
[22:09] <pwnguin> its a two line patch that almost certainly didn't change
[22:10] <Kano> it is cool to play frets on fire with that guitar
[22:10] <pwnguin> sure
[22:11] <pwnguin> but wherever possible I think the kernel team should be providing changes upstream as well
[22:11] <pwnguin> and this is... very possible I think
[22:13] <Kano> why is alsaconf removed in ubuntu?
[22:15] <pwnguin> wait
[22:15] <pwnguin> kano
[22:15] <pwnguin> it IS in linus's tree
[22:15] <crimsun> Kano: known to break audio configuration and/or freeze the machine.
[22:15] <pwnguin> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blob;f=drivers/input/joystick/xpad.c;h=b29e3affb805a97126ccee39dcc867cd6e40dfe3;hb=b66e1f11ebc429569a3784aaf64123633d9e3ed1
[22:15] <Kano> crimsun: well i need that
[22:16] <crimsun> Kano: the correct method is to fix the ISA drivers.
[22:16] <Kano> crimsun: i need it to unload drivers when they have been loaded in wrong order
[22:16] <crimsun> Kano: err...
[22:17] <crimsun> you should never have to use alsaconf to reorder indices
[22:17] <Kano> so what do you use
[22:18] <crimsun> you can either use the index module parameter for each ALSA driver, or you can use the slots parameter for snd.ko (requires alsa-kernel >=1.0.16)
[22:18] <Kano> options snd-emu10k1 index=0
[22:18] <crimsun> you'd place them in a modprobe conffile, e.g., options snd slots=snd-usb-audio,snd-emu10k1,snd-hda-intel
[22:19] <Kano> when this is set it still loads the other as 0
[22:19] <crimsun> that's why I recommend using snd.ko's slots parameter instead of each driver's index parameter.
[22:20] <Kano> but as hotfix alsaconf is really good to use
[22:20] <crimsun> with slots, index 0 is reserved for snd-usb-audio, index 1 for snd-emu10k1, index 2 for snd-hda-intel
[22:21] <crimsun> there's no real reason to use alsaconf for that.  One can script the above sequence for an arbitrary set.
[22:21] <Kano> how about putting it in an extra package for those who really want it?
[22:22] <crimsun> I would strongly recommend against doing so, but I certainly won't stand in the way of other core-devs changing debian/rules.
[22:23] <crimsun> blah, I'll just write a script to do what you need
[22:23] <crimsun> (and stash it in alsa-utils)
[22:24] <Rabiddog> lol
[22:25] <Rabiddog> crimsun, I saw your tip on the bug report for me I'll try it later
[22:25] <crimsun> Rabiddog: err, sorry, which bug report?
[22:25] <Rabiddog> the dmraid
[22:26] <Rabiddog> regression
[22:26] <crimsun> Rabiddog: hmm, I don't remember commenting...  Which bug #?
[22:26] <Kano> regession is the wrong word as i patched it before for you ;)
[22:26] <Rabiddog> lol
[22:28] <Rabiddog> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/220493 crimsun if crimson fox is u
[22:29] <crimsun> Rabiddog: no, I'm strictly crimsun and/or appended underscore variants, sorry.
[22:29] <Rabiddog> heh
[22:29] <pwnguin> there are far too few bugs associated with crimson-fox for that ;)
[22:31] <Rabiddog> heh
[22:40] <Rabiddog> woot samba fixed
[23:54] <mkrufky> Steve Langasek in here?
[23:55] <laga> mkrufky: slangasek is in #ubuntu-motu for example
[23:55] <mkrufky> thank you


[19:00] <belkinsa> #startmeeting Ubuntu Scientists
[19:00] <belkinsa> Er, the meetingbot is gone.
[19:00] <belkinsa> Anyways, who is for the Ubuntu Scientists meeting?
[19:01] <Aleo> Me - Alejandro
[19:01]  * balachmar raises hand
[19:01] <belkinsa> #chair belkinsa
[19:01] <belkinsa> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists/Meetings/Agenda/05232014
[19:01] <belkinsa> Anyone else?
[19:02] <belkinsa> Okay, let's start...
[19:02] <belkinsa> #topic Set up monthly meetings
[19:02] <belkinsa> First of all, are too young as team for having monthly meetings?
[19:03] <balachmar> is that a question, or a statement? :)
[19:03] <belkinsa> Even though monthly meetings creates a better focus for the team.
[19:03] <Aleo> I think it is better to have monthly meetings
[19:03] <belkinsa> Question, and I meant are we too*
[19:03] <balachmar> Monthly meetings are a good idea I think
[19:04] <balachmar> It is not too often, so it doesn't consume a lot of time
[19:04] <belkinsa> Right, meetings should be under an hour.
[19:04] <balachmar> +1 :)
[19:05] <belkinsa> Should we do this time and the last Friday of the month?  Or something else?
[19:05] <Aleo> I think that maybe the time for meeting we can change
[19:05] <Aleo> I made mistake in calculation, so I am at 4:00 (am).
[19:05] <balachmar> For me this is a good time, but depending on the other participants, we might need to rotate times or something
[19:05] <belkinsa> What you have in mind?
[19:06] <Aleo> For me earlier or later is ok.   Last friday of the month is ok for me
[19:06] <balachmar> thursdays work a little better for me, but I can do fridays as well
[19:07] <belkinsa> Alright.   I will do a call on the mailing-list on a better time/day.
[19:07] <belkinsa> #action belkinsa Make a call on mailing-list about monthly meeting time/day
[19:07] <balachmar> sure, and if times vary a lot, rotating could help
[19:08] <Aleo> If possible let's work on UTC time from the beginning, so it is easier to calculate
[19:08] <balachmar> sure times need to be communicated in utc
[19:08] <belkinsa> Sorry about that, it was Doodle's fault when I shut off the timezone setting.
[19:09] <belkinsa> And I will ask about rotating the times/days.
[19:09] <balachmar> no worries
[19:09] <Aleo> no prob
[19:09] <belkinsa> Are we ready to move on?
[19:09] <balachmar> yep
[19:09] <Aleo> yes
[19:10] <belkinsa> #topic vUDS Prep
[19:10] <belkinsa> Again, is this needed for the team or not?
[19:10] <belkinsa> Also, I was asked to be a track lead.
[19:10] <belkinsa> So, I think I can do another track.
[19:10] <balachmar> I am not sure, never attended a vUDS
[19:11] <balachmar> They are normally during my work hours...
[19:11] <belkinsa> vUDS is June 10 to June 12.  Times for the tracks are unknown at this moment.
[19:11] <belkinsa> vUDS's seem to be for many.
[19:11] <belkinsa> balachmar ^^^
[19:12] <Aleo> What type of activity or role do we have for vUDS? that would be different from normal meetings?
[19:13] <belkinsa> Tracks are splints that are planning for the cycle (14.10 for example) and blueprints are created with those goals and the monthly meetings we work on them.
[19:14] <balachmar> Would you like to use a vUDS to draw more attention to this?
[19:14] <balachmar> Because we can make blueprints without a vUDS as well
[19:15] <belkinsa> It would be a use and maybe we could get help from the outside world (the rest of the COmmunity)
[19:17] <Aleo> We can try to participate on the next vUDS, but again the time of the meetings would be a concern.
[19:17] <belkinsa> That can work.
[19:18] <Aleo> They are to be held on Tue ~ Thu.
[19:18] <balachmar> But we need not all be present at a vUDS
[19:19] <balachmar> just a "delegation" with some prepared work
[19:19] <belkinsa> Not all.  The lead and the ones who want to join in either in G+ Hangouts or just plain old IRC.
[19:20] <balachmar> I would at least do some preparation together to make sure there is some concensus
[19:21] <belkinsa> +1
[19:21] <Aleo> Yes, I think that would be good.
[19:21] <belkinsa> Do you want to take that action item, balachmar, on mailing the list about the prep and working up a blueprint draft?
[19:22] <balachmar> belkinsa, to be honest I am a bit short on time at the moment...
[19:22] <belkinsa> Okay, I can take it if you don't mind.
[19:23] <balachmar> I don't mind
[19:23] <balachmar> I will try to pitch in as much as possible
[19:23] <belkinsa> #action belkinsa Work on vUDS Prep and mail the mailing-list
[19:23] <belkinsa> I understand.
[19:24] <belkinsa> Ready to move on?
[19:24] <balachmar> yep
[19:24] <Aleo> Yes
[19:25] <belkinsa> #topic Discussion of team's goals
[19:25] <belkinsa> #https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-scientists/+spec/goals
[19:25] <belkinsa> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-scientists/+spec/goals
[19:26] <belkinsa> I believe this was yours, balachmar.  Want to talk about them, if you have anything else to add?
[19:26] <balachmar> By the way, I am just reading about the meetingology, pretty cool :)
[19:27] <belkinsa> It is.
[19:27] <balachmar> Well, I just wanted to find out what the goal(s) of the group would be
[19:27] <belkinsa> But there seem to be missing bot issues around the Community.
[19:28] <balachmar> Because the initial description was a bit vague, and could be interpreted as any one of those
[19:28] <belkinsa> I think they are good ones.
[19:28] <belkinsa> I think I know who we can contact for that fourth item.
[19:29] <balachmar> But I do think we should try to pick one or two of them to start with (I would actually propose one)
[19:29] <belkinsa> +1
[19:29] <balachmar> And then work one that goal, until we have something good for that and then pick another.
[19:29] <belkinsa> I like this idea.
[19:30] <belkinsa> Aleo, what do you think?
[19:30] <balachmar> But in the OSS mentality, obviously if someone comes in with a real passion for any of those items (s)he is free to pursue
[19:30] <belkinsa> Indeed.
[19:30] <Aleo> Yes, I was also thinking similarly, about separating in groups to handle them.   But we are lacking in manpower
[19:31] <balachmar> Aleo, that is why at the moment we should just pick one and go for that one
[19:31] <Aleo> so as balachmar proposes it should be better to handle one at a time.
[19:31] <balachmar> 2 and 3 are very difficult and long term
[19:31] <belkinsa> 4 may have some leads that are outside the Ubuntu Community that I can contact.
[19:32] <balachmar> It seems that belkinsa already has an idea for at least one success story
[19:32] <Aleo> Ok, I would like to add one more more.
[19:32] <Aleo> sorry to ask one more
[19:32] <belkinsa> Go ahead.
[19:32] <Aleo> This blueprint page can be edited by anyone, correct?
[19:32] <belkinsa> Correct.
[19:33] <Aleo> No need to be a member of the group, correct?
[19:33] <belkinsa> I believe so.
[19:34] <balachmar> I think you need to be part of the group
[19:35] <Aleo> Ok, that was it.   Most of the wiki/documentation is public, so I was wondering if we needed a special "privilege" to edit the documentation.
[19:35] <Aleo> Anyway, let's work on No. 1 then.
[19:35] <belkinsa> Anyone can edit the wiki.
[19:36] <belkinsa> You need a LP and a Ubuntu SSO account.
[19:36] <belkinsa> If you need help, you can aways ask in #ubuntu-doc or e-mail the doc team's mailing-list.
[19:36] <balachmar> So, for goal#1, there already exists http://www.osalt.com/ etc
[19:37] <balachmar> But I think it is useful if we would start a wiki or something to group tools/software into categories that are geared towards scientists
[19:38] <belkinsa> I was too and I know that Ubuntu Community Help Wiki has that page on software.
[19:38] <belkinsa> (Switching topics since we are talking about it)
[19:38] <belkinsa> #topic Discussion of what should be on our Wiki Team Pages.
[19:38] <belkinsa> #topic Discussion of what should be on our Wiki Team Pages
[19:39] <belkinsa> Maybe we can link that page somewhere on our team pages
[19:39] <Aleo> Is this different from blueprints page?
[19:39] <belkinsa> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists/
[19:39] <belkinsa> Yes, it's our wiki stuff.
[19:39] <Aleo> Ok, thank you
[19:40] <belkinsa> It's where we have the resources to help people.  And bookkeeping.
[19:40] <Aleo> So, let's start by introducing the team goals
[19:40] <balachmar> ok, so I think there we should have an overview of what we did
[19:41] <belkinsa> Sure.
[19:41] <balachmar> So indeed start with the goals we identified, but clearly mention the goals we currently focus on
[19:41] <belkinsa> Alright, should this be on the homepage (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists/) or another page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists/Goals)?
[19:41] <balachmar> Then maybe also a small snipper about the people currently involved
[19:42] <belkinsa> We could.
[19:42] <Aleo> Maybe in the same
[19:42] <balachmar> I think at the home page, it is the first thing I would want to know
[19:42] <Aleo> For starters
[19:42] <balachmar> snipper = snippets obviously
[19:42] <belkinsa> Okay, I was thinking that to but I still wanted to ask.
[19:43] <balachmar> And for one of the success stories a small excerpt
[19:43] <belkinsa> #action belkinsa Contact Open Science to see if there is some success stories
[19:43] <belkinsa> Okay, and then we can have a large page with other stories.
[19:44] <balachmar> ok, so what differentiates us from Open Science?
[19:44] <balachmar> brb
[19:44] <belkinsa> We are of the Ubuntu and it's favours Community and they are a mix of Dirstos and other things
[19:45] <belkinsa> What I meant was that we are Ubuntu and it's favours users and we are within this Community and I think we can make some impact.
[19:45] <Aleo> To be clear open science is openscience.org?
[19:45] <belkinsa> Yes.
[19:46] <Aleo> ok, thank you
[19:46] <belkinsa> Wait, no, I meant them: http://opensciencefederation.com/
[19:46] <belkinsa> But I can look at them.
[19:46]  * balachmar is back
[19:46] <belkinsa> Just like Ubuntu Women (sorry, I had to go back on what I said before).
[19:47] <balachmar> ok, sure then I get it
[19:47] <balachmar> I thought that open science was also a group within ubuntu space
[19:47] <belkinsa> Ah.
[19:47] <Aleo> yes, me too
[19:48] <balachmar> I have no problem with having a similar theme specific to ubuntu
[19:48] <balachmar> as long as we try to communicate well with other initiatives
[19:48] <balachmar> no need to do double work
[19:48] <belkinsa> +1
[19:48] <Aleo> ok, so the large page, that belkinsa mentioned is part of the wiki?
[19:49] <belkinsa> Yes.  Something like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists/Stories
[19:50] <balachmar> For example with FLOSS alternatives, I think it might be useful to also state how widespread the use is.
[19:50] <belkinsa> Also we need a page titled https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists/Resources
[19:50] <Aleo> I propose something
[19:51] <belkinsa> balachmar, we should.
[19:51] <belkinsa> Aleo, go a head.
[19:51] <belkinsa> ahead*
[19:51] <balachmar> For example, I work in data analysis/statistics, and there are quite a few closed source packages, but R for instance is very wide spread. Also used in industry a lot.
[19:51] <balachmar> Aleo, go ahead
[19:52] <Aleo> Since belkinsa mentioned the project.   So, for starters why don't we copy the structure of the Ubuntu Wome's wiki page and use it as the base for our wiki page
[19:52] <Aleo> This is.  Project, Whois, Meetings and events, Projects, Resources, Guidelines.
[19:52] <belkinsa> We could but I think it's easily copyable.
[19:53] <Aleo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWomen
[19:53] <belkinsa> Because they have their own wiki not on the Ubuntu Wiki.
[19:53] <belkinsa> Oh, that page?
[19:53] <Aleo> As a starting point
[19:53] <belkinsa> I never know that existed!
[19:54] <belkinsa> knew*
[19:54] <balachmar> yep, the shois section would be useful indeed
[19:54] <belkinsa> I like that idea, Aleo.
[19:54] <balachmar> me too
[19:54] <Aleo> I have never edited an Ubuntu wiki, but I can volunteer to try
[19:55] <belkinsa> Sure, I can help you, Aleo.
[19:55]  * belkinsa is a part of the Doc Team
[19:55] <belkinsa> Correction, is the driver for the Wiki Sub-team.
[19:56] <belkinsa> Aleo, do you want to do this in a sandbox page first?
[19:56] <Aleo> Sure
[19:56] <belkinsa> Okay
[19:56] <belkinsa> #action Aleo work out a wiki team page
[19:56] <Aleo> I will ask if I cannot do.
[19:56] <belkinsa> Alright.
[19:57] <belkinsa> Are we set on this item?
[19:57] <Aleo> If it is ok, let's set that as a goal/target for the month.
[19:57] <belkinsa> Sure.
[19:57] <Aleo> Yes
[19:57] <belkinsa> #topic AOB
[19:58] <balachmar> I have no other business :)
[19:58] <belkinsa> Oh, I so misread that Aleo.
[19:58] <belkinsa> But sure we can set that as ours.
[19:59] <Aleo> what is AOB?
[19:59] <balachmar> any other business
[19:59] <belkinsa> Any Other Business.
[19:59] <Aleo> ahhh
[19:59] <Aleo> jaja, No more business
[19:59] <belkinsa> Alright.  Ending meeting now
[19:59] <belkinsa> #endmeeting
[19:59] <balachmar> So I think we can/should steal the Whois part of the women, with profiles of the people involved and then interviews would be our success stories
[20:00] <belkinsa> Thank you all for coming to the meeting.
[20:00] <balachmar> sure, you are welcome
[20:00] <belkinsa> balachmar, I like this idea.
[20:01] <Aleo> Ok, noted
[20:01] <balachmar> although the profiles could be a little more extensive then just a table, with this few people
[20:02] <belkinsa> Yeah.
[20:02] <belkinsa> But we can do something else.
[20:02] <balachmar> I would then also include a short bio, which might allows them to make a more educated choice on who to contact
[20:02] <balachmar> but that will grow over time
[20:02] <belkinsa> I hope it does.
[20:03] <balachmar> mmm, for some reason the wiki is having troubles logging me in using my u1 account...
[20:03] <belkinsa> You need a LP account and we need to move this over to our channel
[20:03] <balachmar> ok, sure


[00:00] <aedend> I guess I was saying by "It's already started" that folks will try to make this into something more than it needs to be
[00:01] <Omnifrog> yeah. the media isn't going to pass up a chance like this for anything
[00:02] <Omnifrog> they have to talk continuously for another 5 hours at least
[00:16] <Juzzy> it's amazing how corrupt DC is
[07:56] <netritious> Mr. Prsident Trump
[12:47] <wrst> netritious: who woulda thunk it?
[14:30] <netritious> wrst: not the media! lol
[14:31] <wrst> ha ha certainly not
[14:31] <wrst> the earth still circles around the sun regardless :)
[14:31] <wrst> good morning netritious
[14:32] <netritious> good morning wrst
[14:33] <wrst> all good out west?
[14:38] <netritious> well, there aren't any riots yet, so yeah, it's fine I think.
[14:39] <netritious> how are things in the middle and out east wrst?
[14:40] <wrst> well we are in prime red territory here so all is good
[14:41] <wrst> first election that I have really not cared in a long time because I really didn't think either was particularly worthy for the job