[00:00] <storrgie> I see nobody and nogroup, I want to see if I can get the permissions matched between machines
[00:02] <sarnold> storrgie: check the id numbers..
[06:42] <axisys> what is the recommended route to automate install and configure a server? preseed and puppet ? writing a preseed with raid1 + lvm is not fun
[06:43] <axisys> writing a preseed to setup raid1 + lvm is no fun*
[08:05] <oracle> I installed ubuntu 12.10 server on an SSD last night.  It's a Corsair Force GT that's 4k aligned, but when install finished, fdisk reports it as 512/512 for both logical and physical.  anyone one which partitioner tool is used in the installer?
[08:05] <oracle> anyone know i mean
[08:09] <oracle> Does the partitioner create the first partition on a 4k aligned sector anyway even if the drive is lying about it's sector size?
[08:10] <oracle> I dont have ssh to my server at the moment so can't check this
[09:31] <Rar9> hello I´ve just installed an ISO  Ubuntu 12.04  with plesk for the webadmin .  now i want to transfere some files via sftp but the install sftp user doesn´t have the right permissions.  what do I need to change?
[09:32] <Jeeves_> Probably the permissions on the directory you're trying to write to
[09:37] <Rar9> Jeeves_ as said it´s a clean first time install  my user "webuser" also always need to sudo su is ther a way to change this as well?
[09:42] <Jeeves_> Rar9: No. webuser != root, so you always need to su for root-actions
[09:43] <Rar9> Jeeves_ and there is no way to make it permament?
[09:45] <jpds> Rar9: sudo -i is the correct command to get a root login.
[09:45] <Jeeves_> Rar9: Login as root :)
[09:46] <Rar9> Jeeves_ so what do i need to do for  the "webuser" so he has full sftp rights (Winscp) for the file transfere?
[09:47] <Jeeves_> Rar9: You need to look into the permissionstructure of Linux
[09:47] <Jeeves_> And understand how that works and how you should use it
[09:48] <Rar9> Jeeves_ any hint.... or do I need to setup a root login user?
[09:48] <Jeeves_> Rar9: I gave you a hint, but you choose not to like it.
[09:49] <Rar9> Yes linux is still too new for a win user :-(
[09:49] <Jeeves_> You should check the permissions of the directory you're trying to write to
[09:49] <Jeeves_> Who owns it, who can read it, who can write to it.
[09:50] <Rar9> Jeeves_ yes but should the fest install "webuser" (superuser) have full access to all files?
[09:50] <Rar9> first installed user
[09:50] <Jeeves_> No
[09:51] <Jeeves_> Only root has access to all iles
[09:51] <Jeeves_> +f
[09:51] <Rar9> i the user I created has only sudo rights
[09:52] <Jeeves_> Indeed
[09:53] <Jeeves_> Any user in group admin or sudo (they changed that somewhere on the way) can sudo
[09:53] <Rar9> I can see the  "root" user via lastlog
[09:54] <Rar9> do i need to deine a PW for root then?
[09:54] <Rar9> define
[09:58] <Rar9> sudo passwd root did the job :-)
[09:58] <Rar9> steep learing curve
[10:10] <oracle> I installed ubuntu 12.10 server on an SSD last night.  It's a Corsair Force GT that's 4k aligned, but when install finished, fdisk reports it as 512/512 for both logical and physical.  anyone know which partitioner tool is used in the installer? Does the partitioner create the first partition on a 4k aligned sector anyway even if the drive is lying about it's sector size?
[10:17] <hexy> Hey people, question. I want to backup all my server settings and content and be able to restore it with ease after new installation, how would I go about that? Maybe even to make a full image of the drive? O
[10:21] <finite9> anyone know if 12.10 installer can handle 4k aligned disks?
[10:23] <RoyK> it can
[10:24] <RoyK> it doesn't care
[10:24] <ikonia> most installers shoudn't see a problem
[10:24] <finite9> RoyK: fdisk still shows 512 bytes as physical and logical
[10:24] <finite9> does it matter as long as the partitions are on 4k multiples?
[10:24] <RoyK> finite9: it usually does, since that's what the disk reports
[10:25] <RoyK> finite9: no, as long as partitions are aligned, it doesn't matter.
[10:25] <finite9> RoyK: I've got other raid (non-ssd) disks that report 4096 bytes correctly in fdisk
[10:26] <RoyK> finite9: what is the drive model?
[10:26] <finite9> thanks. will have to verify what sectors my partitions are on when I get home
[10:26] <finite9> RoyK: it's a Corsair Force GT 120GB SSD
[10:27] <finite9> RoyK: tha others are Seagate raid compatible non-ssd's
[10:28] <RoyK> all drives are "raid compatible" ;)
[10:28] <RoyK> well, perhaps not WD non-raid drives, since they enter a panic mode of "deep recovery" if they hit a bad sector, but most other drives can be reconfigured not to do such nonsense
[10:29] <finite9> hmm...sure?  doesn't it "depend"?  I got 2 WD "RE3" disks.  They've got different firmware than the other greeen/black editions so they don't freak out when mirrored... which has happened to me with other disks that weren't specced as raid specific
[10:30] <RoyK> WD has a TLER (time-limited error recovery) mode for their "enterprise" drives, to avoid that nonsense
[10:31] <RoyK> but then, most drives work well in RAID configurations
[10:31] <finite9> i have 2 WD RE3's mirrored and got a pair of Seagate disks in a raid-0 array, and im pretty sure the datasheet mentioned something about them being specced for raid use as well?
[10:31] <RoyK> it's only this TLER thing
[10:32] <finite9> maybe my previous bad experience was due to using 2 MyBooks (usb2) as a raid-1 :)  it failed daily and had to rebuild the array which took hours.
[10:32] <RoyK> some (at least WDs) desktop drives are locked to a mode doing "deep recovery", trying to read a single sector for up to 1 minute, if a sector fails
[10:32] <RoyK> IMHO that's nonsense
[10:34] <finite9> does the spinning down of the discs not affect raid arrays?  I thought that was one of the advantages of getting "raid specific" versions of disks, so that the disk could handle the spin down (or just doesn't spin down when in raid array), or am i mistaken?
[10:38] <RoyK> that's tunable
[10:39] <RoyK> see hdparm(8)
[10:40] <finite9> tunable to spin down or not?  with smart?  yes, but if you _want_ the disks to spin down, but _not_ get degraded in the array?
[10:40] <RoyK> I don't think there should be a difference there. not smart/smartctl, hdparm
[10:41] <RoyK> smartctl is for querying the disk for health info and more, not controlling it
[10:41] <finite9> ok.  didnt realise that
[10:41] <finite9> thought you could control it as well
[10:42] <RoyK> don't think there's much control available from smartctl apart from starting tests etc
[10:42]  * RoyK RTFM
[10:43] <finite9> yeah I think it's time to re-read it :)  been a few years since last time.
[10:46] <RoyK> nope - you'll have to use hdparm
[10:49] <soren> finite9: You can configure a drive in a raid array to be "write-mostly". This way, it'll only be used when you're writing things, not when reading. This allows it to spin down (assuming nothing is being written) while still being an active part of the array.
[10:50] <soren> Of course this only works for RAID 1.
[10:57] <RoyK> finite9: also, keep in mind that spinning drive a disk may cause its temperature to vary more than leaving it spinning 24x7, and drives are most happy in stable environments
[14:33] <thejoecarroll> hi. i need help with setting up syslog for a chroot jail. i've used jailkit and followed the instructions here: http://olivier.sessink.nl/jailkit/howtos_sftp_scp_only.html but the -a option for syslogd that is suggests using to add an extra socket seems to have been removed between hardy and lucid/precise: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man8/rsyslogd.8.html vs http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man8/rsyslogd.8.html
[14:34] <thejoecarroll> i'm also having trouble getting sftp to work with the chrooted user although scp works as intended
[14:39] <thejoecarroll> so, q1: how can i get rsyslogd to listen to what's logged by jailed processes to /var/chroot/dev/log (created by jk_socketd; see http://olivier.sessink.nl/jailkit/jk_socketd.8.html), as well as the normal systemwide logging?
[14:47] <thejoecarroll> ok, i figured out the answer to q1: $AddUnixListenSocket /var/chroot/dev/log
[14:48] <thejoecarroll> in /etc/rsyslog.conf anywher after $ModLoad imuxsock
[15:04] <jcastro_> hey Daviey
[15:04] <jcastro_> http://blog.awe.sm/2012/12/18/aws-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/
[15:05] <jcastro_> mentions how we suck at EBS failures, we should check it out.
[15:05] <jcastro_> smoser: utlemming ^^^
[15:23] <roaksoax> zul: can you think of an upstart job that source /etc/default/packagename?
[15:25] <jpds> roaksoax: gmetad sources a .conf file in /etc/.
[15:27] <roaksoax> jpds: cool thanks., the only thing is that it is not an upstart job :)
[15:27] <jpds> roaksoax: It is.
[15:28] <jpds> roaksoax: I upstartified it in raring.
[15:29] <roaksoax> jpds: ah!! i was looking at quantal :)
[15:29] <roaksoax> jpds: thanks for the tip
[16:05] <ed8> hi, which version of Ubuntu server should I install on a new server ?
[16:06] <RoyK> ed8: I'd use the latest LTS, 12.04
[16:06] <ed8> should I go for a LTS or the support scheme doesn't apply to server release
[16:06] <RoyK> LTS is for all releases
[16:07] <ed8> RoyK: is there a 12.10 for server ? (just to know)
[16:07] <RoyK> there is
[16:12] <ed8> what are the pros/cons of choosing a Ubuntu Server instead of a Debian ?
[16:12] <RoyK> I guess just choose whatever you like
[16:16] <roaksoax> q/win 14
[16:16] <roaksoax> err
[16:17] <paco1> hello masters!
[16:20] <paco1> i have a problem with my bind server: i have a master and a slave bind server. i put on my config file on master server "allow-transfer {;};" and "notify yes;" (for normal & reverse zones) but the zones don't transfer quickly, the process takes many times to do the transfer....or only one is transfered
[16:23] <flagg0204> has anyone used apparmor to build an RBAC system for their ubuntu server
[16:24] <flagg0204> having a hard time finding articles on the subject
[16:27]  * RoyK hasn't tried
[16:27] <RoyK> flagg0204: what do you need it for?
[16:31] <hallyn> all:  i plan on uploading new qemu packages from ppa:serge-hallyn/crossc on jan 2.  If you want to test, especially with arm or ppc host/target, I highly recommend following through on those urges :)
[16:32] <ed8> I need some advice about the support for a Ubuntu server. How is the 'standard' support helpful in Windows Network ?
[16:41] <Pici> ed8: I'm afraid I don't understand your question.
[16:41] <TheLordOfTime> nor I...
[16:41] <TheLordOfTime> ed8, can you elaborate on what you're trying to ask?
[16:45] <smoser> utlemming, around ?
[16:45] <utlemming> yup
[16:46] <ed8> I don't understand the 'Windows integration' option of th 'Standard' support describe here : http://www.ubuntu.com/business/server/services
[16:46] <ed8> how is it helpful  ?
[16:46] <utlemming> smoser: here
[16:47] <Pici> ed8: I'm afraid we can't really answer questions about Canonical's support packages. You would be better off using the Contact Canonical link on that page.
[16:47] <smoser> so for the image description data... i am thinking that in the data (example: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1450295/)
[16:48] <Pici> Most of the people here do not work for Canonical, we're just volunteer users providing support.
[16:48] <smoser> there needs to be some globally unique name that references *this* set of items.
[16:48] <smoser> iqn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISCSI) seems not un-reasonable to me
[16:49] <ed8> well as it's the #ubuntu-server channel I was expecting some people to know about this
[16:49] <ed8> Pici: or is it the same channel as #ubuntu ?
[16:49] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1450303/ (with iqn in it)/
[16:49] <smoser> i'm kind of looking ofr other ideas on what "unique identifier" we could use.
[16:50] <Pici> ed8: Both #ubuntu and #ubuntu-server provide community support.  We do not work for or represent Canonical.
[16:50] <TheLordOfTime> ed8, what you're asking for is about Canonical's paid support.  we don't work for Canonical, we're just community support, as Pici said.
[16:50] <TheLordOfTime> your best bet is to use the Contact Canonical link
[16:50] <TheLordOfTime> and ask them.
[16:50] <smoser> i also considered something just like "authoritative-url: http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/data/images/releases/precise/server/i386
[16:50] <jcastro_> yeah use the link, I work for Canonical and I don't know the answer to your question either. :p
[16:50] <TheLordOfTime> jcastro_, heh
[16:51] <utlemming> smoser: so you want something that says "this data is unique and came from X"?
[16:51] <ed8> TheLordOfTime: don't you use paid support ?
[16:51] <TheLordOfTime> ed8, nope.
[16:51] <TheLordOfTime> no need, not for my servers anyways.
[16:51] <ed8> ok
[16:51] <smoser> well 2 things
[16:51] <TheLordOfTime> a couple of organizations i've worked with went for paid support, but...\
[16:51] <ed8> Do you have any suggestion on the partitions to create for a ubuntu server ?
[16:52] <smoser> a.) i need some unique identifier that names "this set of items". that way, to know if I've "seen" an item_group before I just have to have its 'serial' and 'unique-identifier'
[16:53] <flagg0204> RoyK: I'd like a user to be able to login an use certain commands without having to provide sudo access.
[16:53] <smoser> b.) if I have a local mirror from http://mirror-1.com and I switch my sync client to http://mirror-2.com , Ideally the tool then doesn't have to completely mirror everything again.
[16:54] <smoser> ie, it would "know" somehow that the new upstream mirrors were identical
[16:54] <RoyK> flagg0204: can't you just use sudo and allow those certain commands there?
[16:54] <flagg0204> RoyK: I could, but that would involve creating sudo entries for every user as our LDAP has no concept of groups. That doesnt scale
[16:55] <utlemming> smoser: thinking....
[16:55] <RoyK> flagg0204: then why don't you use groups? I'm confused...
[16:56] <smoser> "authoritative-url" gives the additional benefit of providing a "where is the upstream mirror of all this stuff"
[16:56] <smoser> but then has the negative affect of implying that there *is* one (and that you'd know it when you produced the data).
[16:57] <RoyK> flagg0204: I didn't think there was an LDAP server on the planet not supporting groups
[16:59] <flagg0204> RoyK: ldap does support groups. the way ours is implemented does not use groups. and I dont admin the ldap server. so i cant change it.
[16:59] <RoyK> flagg0204: you can probably create local groups with ldap users - should work
[17:00] <utlemming> smoser: I think that the IQN idea has a lot of merrit. but I am wondering about doing it java like
[17:01] <utlemming> smoser: i.e. com.ubuntu.cloud-images.precise.<SET>
[17:01] <smoser> re-using iqn gives a clearly defined naming convention.
[17:01] <utlemming> smoser: right, and you do have the benefit of a RFC
[17:01] <smoser> unless there is another, such well defined definition, i'd just use it.
[17:02] <smoser> i do think that "authoritative-url"  makes sense too though. as a "can contain".
[17:03] <utlemming> smoser: yeah, this all makes sense to me
[17:07] <RoyK> flagg0204: anyway - the useful change would be to have the admin add an ldap group or two. what sort of commands do you need to allow for your users?
[17:09] <jamespage> roaksoax, quantum-netns-cleanup could be adapted to do what we want
[17:09] <jamespage> ATM it will cleanup dhcp and l3 router ports and namespaces
[17:09] <jamespage> that needs to be a cli option
[17:12] <roaksoax> jamespage: right, so the RA can simply call that and do its thing then
[17:19] <jdstrand> flagg0204: I'll refer you to http://wiki.apparmor.net/index.php/Documentation
[17:19] <jdstrand> flagg0204: in particular 'Integrating AppArmor with PAM for login-based policies' (which should be current) and 'Using AppArmor for Role Based Access Control (RBAC)' (which may be out of date)
[17:45] <RoyK> jdstrand: erm - does this mean apparmor can replace sudo for certain tasks?
[17:46] <sarnold> RoyK: apparmor doesn't raise privileges; however, if you've got a setuid program, apparmor can restrict what that program can do (vaguely similar to sudo's commands+arguments...)
[17:46] <RoyK> ok
[17:46] <sarnold> RoyK: I think they're complementary tools, but you could certainly describe a sudo use that apparmor could do..
[17:47] <RoyK> thanks - gotta look more into apparmor - so far, it's only been background noise
[17:49] <sarnold> woo :)
[20:07] <echosystm> hi guys
[20:07] <echosystm> im trying to reverse tunnel into a ubuntu server and i cant get it to work
[20:08] <echosystm> a connection is created but whenever i try to telnet over it, i get a refused connection
[20:08] <echosystm> unlike when the connection isnt there, telnet doesnt run at all
[20:10] <RoyK> echosystm: ssh tunnel?
[20:12] <echosystm> yes
[20:34] <brendan_> hey all... so some of our servers are getting bonded and i am also slowly incorporating puppet into the infrastructure.. and the boss is installing the pt-cache search ifenslave-2.6 package, my question is.. if i include that package as part of the core_packages all of our servers receive and do not get setup for a bonded connection, would/will that package create havoc?
[20:34] <brendan_> if installed, but not used?
[21:30] <echosystm> exit
[21:30] <echosystm> ugh
[21:30] <echosystm> the worst


[23:30] <rolo> Hiya.  I've just switched to using the official ec2 Hardy image from Eric Hammond's one.  I have a query about SSHing as non ubuntu user.  I can connect fine as the ubuntu user, but can't connect as the other account I created.  I added my key to the keys list, but it says "Permission denied (publickey).".  Do I need to add my user to a special group or anything?  THanks :>


[22:49] <tsimonq2> Harumph, what's up with the publisher?
[22:49] <tsimonq2> A build that finished like 45 minutes ago hasn't published yet.
[22:49] <tsimonq2> wgrant, cjwatson ^
[22:50] <nacc> tsimonq2: yeah i'm seeing long delays, although they are going through eventually
[22:51] <tsimonq2> nacc: hm, maybe somebody built like a 5 GB package or something ;)
[22:51] <nacc> heh
[22:51] <nacc> maybe
[22:51] <tsimonq2> Or 50 :P
[22:51] <tsimonq2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[22:53] <cjwatson> 2018-02-23 22:53:45 DEBUG   Added /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-archive/ubuntu/pool/main/libr/libreoffice/libreoffice-ogltrans_6.0.1-0ubuntu3_i386.deb from library
[22:54] <cjwatson> so I mean libreoffice publications are never fast
[22:54] <cjwatson> but it's progressing
[23:22] <tsimonq2> Ahh, ok


[19:09] <AzraelPwnz> Hello, I was wondering if anyone would be able to help me. Running 16.04 64 bit, all up to date. Installed ubuntu-sdk and am running it as root. When I try to create a project (specifically creating a kit), I get the following error: error: Registering root is not possible. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
[19:09] <AzraelPwnz> I can provide more information if needed, just did not know exactly what you need!
[19:10] <AzraelPwnz> I have tried on a physical installation as well as in a VM.
[19:12] <mcphail> AzraelPwnz: why are you running as root???
[19:15] <AzraelPwnz> Because I was running into an LXD error. Researching online, I found that recommendation.
[19:15] <AzraelPwnz> Could that be a problem?
[19:16] <mcphail> Running graphical apps as root can cause all kinds of issues. No idea if the SDK can handle running as root. Everything is designed to be done as a normal user, afaik
[19:17] <AzraelPwnz> I will try that really quick to see if it resolves the issue.
[19:18] <AzraelPwnz> I still get the error. The second line of the error log states : Fixing possible container permission problems...Then it states: All containers are accessible. Fixing possible DRI devices....Fixing possible nvidia issues...device tmp added to desktop. 0  0  error: registering root is not possible.
[19:20] <mcphail> I suspect whatever damage you have done by creating the chroots as root is slapping you in the face. Might be worth asking bzoltan or one of the other SDK guys how to unpick that one
[19:21] <AzraelPwnz> I will do that. Thank you for the input mcphail!
[19:24] <mcphail> AzraelPwnz: good luck
[19:50] <AzraelPwnz> Hello all (appdevs). I cannot seem to get started with Ubuntu development. I am unable to create a new kit in order to start a new project. I get the "Registering root is not possible" error. If I do not run as root, I get an error stating that I do not have permission to use LXD.
[19:56] <AzraelPwnz> #appdevs I have tried using multiple images as well. No luck on a true ubuntu machine nor on a VM.


[08:50] <admindrink> Hi
[16:16] <cage_raphel> Hi All
[16:16] <cage_raphel> good evening
[16:16] <cage_raphel> have recently installed Ubu 20.04 andi am unable to connect to my bluetooth headsets
[16:17] <cage_raphel> have installed blueman .. but still having issues
[16:17] <cage_raphel> would much appreciate if someone could guide me here pls.
[17:04] <mirhnaz> Hi, I have a Raspberry Pi 4. Searched lubuntu.me for an arm version of lubuntu, couldn't find it. Was hoping someone can point me in the right direction.
[17:20] <wastl[m]> Install arm version of ubuntu desktop
[17:20] <wastl[m]> Then afterwards install lubuntu-desktop
 or... follow the documentation on the Discourse?
 Forwarded from kc2bez: Yes, we have instructions here for pi installation: https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/raspberry-pi-installation/2050
[17:53] <teward> oh mirhnaz left nevermind
[17:54] <kc2bez[m]> still valid instructions ^
[17:59] <latincanadian> hello community
[17:59] <latincanadian> im having some issues to enable my laptop wifi driver, am i in the right place to get help on this matter?
[18:02] <kc2bez[m]> latincanadian: We can try to help. What version of Lubuntu are you using and what have you tried so far?
[18:03] <latincanadian> i was using 18.0 then i did a marathon upgrade until 20.10
[18:03] <latincanadian> i was hoping to get the drivers but not
[18:04] <latincanadian> the funny thing is the cd of the 18.0 have the driver , but once i update the computer software the wifi got disabled and no longer functioning
[18:05] <latincanadian> im using a network cable now to connect to internet :(
[18:05] <kc2bez[m]> Oh fun. If you have a wired connection this might go easy.
[18:05] <latincanadian> ok...?
[18:06] <latincanadian> im reading .
 can we start by identifying your  network card?  lshw -C netsork
 oops
[18:06] <latincanadian> sure
 lshw -C network
 take that and put it in a pastebin and then share that here.  you can use paste.ubuntu.com
[18:06] <latincanadian> let me go to pastebin
 that needs run on the command line by the way
[18:08] <latincanadian> there you go https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/kgK2wTjxZj/
 ok so it's less a driver issue and a "disabled" issue.  Run rfkill list and see what it says?
[18:09] <latincanadian> broadcom INc. :(
 "UNCLAIMED" would suggest a driver issue, "DISABLED" suggests the wifi is just off on the system either by a key combo or a soft block.
[18:10] <latincanadian> rf kill  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/3bBSzRRZNW/
[18:10] <latincanadian> there
 > Hard blocked: yes
 do you have a switch on your system or function key combo that turns on / off wifi / wireless on your system?
 if so try pressing that key combo
 some systems have a physical switch for it
[18:11] <latincanadian> im using a acer laptop
[18:11] <latincanadian> the f3 key have the wifi icon
 might be FN+F5 on your keyboard
 fn+f3 then
[18:12] <latincanadian> FN and F5 messed up my screen lol
[18:12] <latincanadian> let me try with f3
 yeah fn+f5 is the 'general' acer button, but i don't know all the systems. :P
[18:12] <latincanadian> yes it work but still hardware wifi disabled
 so you hit it but it's disabled still?
[18:13] <latincanadian> yes still disabled :(
[18:14] <latincanadian> the wifi icon say - Hardware disabled-
 then lets try and verify the drivers.  sudo apt install firmware-b43-installer linux-firmware then reboot the system.
 that should attempt to install / reinstall the firmware for the Broadcom cards.
[18:15] <latincanadian> already done :(
 so still not working then.
[18:15] <latincanadian> before upgrade to 20.10 i did that several times. then upgrade again and repeated the same routine. and still epic failure
 check rfkill list again - see if it's still hard blocked or if it's just soft blocked now.
[18:17] <latincanadian> hold on
 yep - sorry to make you verify but sometimes hard block is fixed but soft block is on
[18:18] <latincanadian> `still hard blocked
[18:19] <latincanadian> i was wondering if i could try using the old drivers from lubuntu 18.0
 the old drivers from 18.04 would be superseded by the newer kernel in the 20.10 system.
[18:21] <latincanadian> well i guess we are facing a bug. because in the old version the wifi works but no longer in next versions
 here's a question:
 when you were on 20.04 during your power upgrade session did it work>?
 rather than latest-and-greatest 20.10
 if you know.
 did you test 20.04 before going to 20.10?
 also sorry ERR:LAG on my network
[18:22] <latincanadian> no. only worked on 18.0
[18:22] <latincanadian> after i did the first software update-security etc the driver stopped working. it just dissapeared.
[18:25] <latincanadian> for some reason the newer kernels when they overwite the system config, over miss some drivers, like this particular case.
[18:30] <latincanadian> teward001 got it?
 sorry yeah i needed a bathroom break.  It might be a kernel incompatibility, we had that chaos recently with kernels and drivers as @kc2bez knows
[18:51] <kc2bez[m]> And they left...
 bah i can't tell not viewing IRC at the moment
 :\
[18:52] <teward> ... now I am
[18:52] <teward> bleh


[07:26] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Security:: Episode 91 @ https://ubuntusecuritypodcast.org/episode-91/
[11:45] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: The Expandables – snapcraft extensions and the secret code @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/the-expandables-snapcraft-extensions-and-the-secret-code
[19:59] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: The Fridge: Call for Ubuntu Community Council nominations @ http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2020/09/18/call-for-ubuntu-community-council-nominations/


[09:26] <mdke> hi. I seem to have lost my access on the fridge, what's up?
[09:26] <mdke> oh no, working now
[09:33] <imbrandon> mdke, get it worked out ?
[09:34] <mdke> yep, something screwy with my browser
[09:34] <mdke> very cool this interview with Mark
[09:34] <mdke> listening now
[09:39] <imbrandon> yea i just listened to it now
[09:39] <imbrandon> pretty cool
[09:42] <mdke> I'll do a short writeup later if no one else has time before then
[04:12] <ubotu> New on thefridge: Ubuntu reaches BBC Worldservice listeners <http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/607>


[04:32] <Unit193> housecat: Did you try op'ing up and inviting the bot, btw?
[04:33] <housecat> Unit193: yes
[04:33] <Unit193> Bah, worth a shot.


[13:28] <gary_poster> bac, benji, gmb, mumble/kanban in 2
[13:29] <gmb> Yep
[13:46] <gary_poster> gmb, could you add me to https://qastaging.launchpad.net/~malone-alpha please?  db hasn't updated that yet I guess
[13:46] <gmb> gary_poster: Sure.
[13:46] <gary_poster> thank you
[13:47] <gmb> gary_poster: I've added you and made you an admin.
[13:48] <gary_poster> thank you again
[14:27]  * gmb -> afk for a bit
[16:28] <bac> hi gmb
[16:28] <gmb> Hi bac.
[16:28] <bac> gmb: 90 sec mumble?
[16:28] <gmb> bac: Sure.
[16:33] <bac> gmb: when mumbling you're super loud and blown out
[16:34] <gmb> Yeah, I think it's because I set up Mumble with the built-in-mic but I'm now using my iphone earbuds. I need to reconfigure it.
[16:34] <gmb> Thanks for the heads-up.
[16:49] <bac> hurrah, i'm making an accordion with no external assets.
[16:50] <benji> yay!
[19:07] <benji> bac: I'm in need of a task.  Anything I can help you with?
[19:08]  * bac thinks
[19:08] <benji> gary_poster: here's my first cut of a "how to access the webservice from JS" document: https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow/JavaScriptAPIAccessDraft
[19:08]  * gary_poster looks
[19:09] <bac> benji: i'm wrapping up my task to include the gallery stuff.  i need to write up a quick wiki article about it.  after i push the branch you may want to have a look around.  other than that i can't think of anything ATM.
[19:10] <gary_poster> benji, I'll think about it in a sec.  one comment as I read: some APIs are exposed via collections
[19:10] <gary_poster> and I think we hope to have more of those
[19:10] <benji> bac: ok, thanks anyway.  I'd be interested in any feedback you have on https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow/JavaScriptAPIAccessDraft.
[19:10] <gary_poster> finding out where those are/how to use them is something that I wouldn't know how to do systematically
[19:10] <gary_poster> other than stare at interfaces and their annotations
[19:10] <benji> gary_poster: I don't know how those work, so I didn't include them. :)
[19:10] <gary_poster> which may be the only answer
[19:11] <benji> well, I got an idea from reading the code, but I didn't want to lead anyone astray
[19:11] <gary_poster> heh, ok, makes sense benji.  since that's a known gray area rather than a yet-to-be-discovered gray area, I recommend highlighting it as something that exists but that isn't explained here yet.
[19:12] <benji> good idea
[19:14] <gary_poster> will get back to reading the doc, but here's one small useful thing to do: look at comment #6 on https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/649252
[19:14] <_mup_> Bug #649252: No unsubscribe link in emails for non-verbose bug notifications <easy> <email> <lp-bugs> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/649252 >
[19:15] <gary_poster> benji, you could do that pretty quickly, and move a card along in gmb's lane
[19:15]  * benji looks
[19:17] <gary_poster> benji, back to the draft: "The URI is the webservice entity URI, not a URI normal human-readable web page" I think maybe there is a helper to convert one to the other?  Maybe that was just a desire that someone expressed once rather than something we actually have...
[19:18] <benji> gary_poster: I'm not aware of a way and a cursory look at the JS client doesn't reveal one.
[19:18] <gary_poster> ok, benji :-/  must have been a desire then
[19:18] <benji> maybe you're thinking of the reverse; there is now a web_link attribute on most resources that points to a human-readable web page
[19:18] <gary_poster> huh
[19:19] <gary_poster> well, I was thinking what I said, but maybe I just misunderstood
[19:20] <gary_poster> benji, this is a good start, thank you.  How do you know what the success JSON will look like?  Or...is that saying that it will generally give you "instances" of webservice representations of server objects, and you can do...the usual things, whatever the usual things are, on those objects?
[19:21] <gary_poster> In general, that's the part I think you probably have an answer for that I still don't understand after reading
[19:23] <benji> gary_poster: Is your question: what does the JSON returned by retrieving a resource look like?
[19:24] <gary_poster> benji, well, what are those success callbacks supposed to do, benji.  If we are supposed to handle the JSON, then I want to know what the JSON looks like.  If the JSON is handled for us, then I don't care.  But generally, if I call a named operation, how do I know what to expect to do about it in the success callback?
[19:24] <gary_poster> heh, sorry for double
[19:25] <benji> I think you accidentally a word.  ;)
[19:25] <benji> the success callbacks get an object, the JSON attributes are mapped into object attributes.
[19:25] <benji> I tried to say that but may have failed.  I'll rewrite that bit.
[19:26] <gary_poster> but what are those objects?  You look in the WADL to find out?
[19:27] <benji> oh!  I don't know what you look at for them, I've just been looking at the JSON or HTML generated by them.  I'll see if there's something better than that and write it in.
[19:28] <gary_poster> cool
[19:34] <gary_poster> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/skinning/
[19:34] <gary_poster> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/3/examples/slider/slider_skin.html
[20:34] <gary_poster> benji, moved things around so that your card could be in feature work 1 where it belongs.
[20:35] <benji> ok
[23:11] <gary_poster> night


[15:56] <emilsedgh> is there any process going on Kubuntu website? I really wish to be able to help there, kubuntu website is not really good
[15:58] <Riddell> emilsedgh: yes, talk to mhb, nixternal and ryanakca
[15:58] <emilsedgh> Riddell: thanks :)
[15:59] <emilsedgh> mhb, nixternal and ryanakca: do you need any help on kubuntu website?
[16:01] <Riddell> emilsedgh: I guess they're all away just now, but hang around, I'm sure they will need the help
[16:01] <emilsedgh> Riddell: ok, im staying
[16:04] <emilsedgh> and a question, dunno where should i ask, but why dont you guys just change the default icon theme? everyone is tired of crystal svg icons...
[16:06] <emonkey-f> really? I'm not ... (no I'm not a developer)
[16:06] <nosrednaekim> crystal is still the top rated icon set on kde-look.... peoplemust like them
[16:06] <emonkey-f> Ok, maybe because I've never seen anoter one
[16:07] <nosrednaekim> emonkey-f: try out nuvola (its int the repositories)
[16:07] <emonkey-f> I will, thx for hint
[16:08] <emilsedgh> nosrednaekim: they are so old, kde-look's rating isnt really the best way to choose bests...its an old website, for example nuovext is a very nice iconset...
[16:13] <Riddell> emilsedgh: it's because we like to be a KDE distro as much as possible, so w follow the KDE look and feel
[16:15] <emilsedgh> Riddell: sure, Im a kde fanatic myself ;), but KDE's default configurations 'Are' bad and they should be changed...as you changed default wallpaper, widget style and windec...
[18:59] <emonkey-p> fdoving: thx I'll try it immediately
[18:59] <fdoving> emonkey-p: probably need to force some version-things.
[18:59] <emonkey-p> k
[19:01] <milian> fdoving: worked for me
[19:01] <milian> thanks a million
[19:19] <emonkey-p> fdoving: works here at least on two of three computers.
[19:21] <fdoving> sounds good.
[19:25] <emilsedgh_> mhb: ping
[19:54] <emilsedgh> Riddell: should i get main or trunk branch of website? (just wanna take a look)
[20:00] <nixternal> Riddell: getting ready to work on the release notes for the site...any requests?
[20:00] <nixternal> emilsedgh: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-website/kubuntu-theme-v1
[20:01] <nixternal> as it stands, we are planning on a drupal setup similar to ubuntu.com, just blooo :)
[20:01] <emilsedgh> nixternal: are you planning to start a drupal website for kubuntu?
[20:01] <nixternal> already started
[20:01] <emilsedgh> nice
[20:02]  * emilsedgh is going to check it out
[20:03] <nixternal> http://mhb.ath.cx/kubuntu/nonsite/
[20:03] <emilsedgh> nixternal: and you want any help? Im a php programmer with a little (very little) drupal module's knowledge
[20:03] <nixternal> that is what is up there so far...we haven't started hacking on the CSS..I plan on doing so here within the next couple of days...I am tying up so loose ends personally
[20:03] <nixternal> emilsedgh: talk to mhb, as he is the one leading up the project
[20:04] <nixternal> php help is OK, how about CSS/themeing?
[20:04] <Riddell> nixternal: KDE 3.5.8 and 4 beta 4 are obviously highlights
[20:04] <emilsedgh> nixternal: a little, as much as every web-developer knows
[20:05] <nixternal> Riddell: what are those? :p
[20:05] <nixternal> beta 4?
[20:05] <nixternal> you mean 3
[20:10] <seele> Riddell: yes, i put it on my calendar
[20:11] <Riddell> seele: ok, I can't be there but jono and/or jcastro will
[20:11] <nixternal> I see Mr. Carmony has switched to Ubuntu...
[20:11]  * nixternal wonders how long before he applies with Canonical if he hasn't already
[20:11] <Riddell> nixternal: 3 it is.  I lose count
[20:11] <nixternal> hehe
[20:11] <nixternal> you had me lose count as well
[20:11] <Riddell> nixternal: who's he?
[20:11] <nixternal> I had to look
[20:12] <nixternal> Riddell: former CEO of Linspire who made the deal with the devil
[20:12] <nixternal> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=577927
[20:12] <nixternal> he is in our forums telling about his love for Ubuntu
[20:14] <Riddell> interesting
[20:14] <emilsedgh> nixternal: is there any Todo list for new site?
[20:15] <manchicken> Wow.  This looks like he's already begun marketing for Canonical.
[20:15] <nixternal> emilsedgh: dunno, would have to ask mhb
[20:15] <DaSkreech> manchicken: Who?
[20:15] <manchicken> Kevin Carmony.
[20:15] <nixternal> manchicken: which is scary, everyone knows the reason he isn't with Linspire is because of his deal...I hope he doesn't do marketing, because ever since he joined Linspire, they lost all of their big deals..ie Walmart
[20:16] <manchicken> Yeah.
[20:16] <nixternal> Walmart is what boosted Linspire
[20:16] <manchicken> The walmart deal would have been *VERY* good for Free Software.
[20:16] <manchicken> Kubuntu should work with walmart.    But there will be that question.
[20:19] <manchicken> Believe you me.
[20:19] <davmor2> kubuntu 7.10 putting the K in Kicking A***
[20:19] <nixternal> hehe
[20:19] <manchicken> Kubuntu 7.10 - Good?... or Gutsy?
[20:20] <nixternal> Kubuntu 7.10 - Putting the K in Ubuntu :)
[20:20] <manchicken> heh
[20:20] <nixternal> ooh, I kind of like that
[20:20] <_StefanS_> yep
[20:20] <_StefanS_> sounds good
[20:20] <nixternal> Kubuntu 7.10 - Sticking it to the man!
[20:20] <manchicken> Or Kubuntu 7.10 - Because KDE is still Better.
[20:20] <_StefanS_> nixternal: I didnt know linspire ever had a boost? :)
[20:20] <nixternal> hahahahah
[20:20] <davmor2> Kubuntu 7.10 - If god had a desktop
[20:20] <nixternal> _StefanS_: ya, Linspire was really big when they first cut their deal with Walmart
[20:20] <manchicken> Kubuntu 7.10 - Use it or I'll Eat this Kitten.
[20:20] <nixternal> davmor2: hahahahahahahahah
[20:21] <_StefanS_> nixternal: when it was called lindows probably :)
[20:21] <nixternal> holy smokes, those are great release day blog titles
[20:21] <nixternal> _StefanS_: yes
[20:21] <manchicken> OOH!  davmor2: "Kubuntu 7.10 - Because Gutsiness is next to Godliness"
[20:21] <manchicken> there ya go.
[20:21] <nixternal> I tend to forget about that idiotic move, but it made them a ton of money
[20:21] <manchicken> Marketing genius at work here folks.
[20:22] <nixternal> ya, I don't think religion is the best thing to throw in
[20:22] <davmor2> Kubuntu 7.10 - Kutsy Kibbon
[20:22] <manchicken> YES!
[20:22] <manchicken> That's it.
[20:22] <nixternal> hahaha, I had that
[20:22] <manchicken> You should totally use that.
[20:23] <emilsedgh> nixternal: which drupal version is used there?
[20:23] <nixternal> ok, back in a few...going to work on these release notes
[20:23] <nixternal> 5.x
[20:25] <DaSkreech> Kubuntu 7.10 - forget Feisty! Fling Feces
[20:25] <davmor2> Kubuntu 7.10 - PURE KENIUS
[20:25] <manchicken> Kubuntu 7.10 - Go for the Gutsy
[20:26] <manchicken> Grab for the Gutsy -- stolen from Miller
[20:26] <manchicken> Kubuntu 7.10 -- Does this look infected to you?
[20:26] <DaSkreech> Kubuntu 12.04 - OmG p0niez!
[20:27] <manchicken> Stick some LOLCODE in there.
[20:27] <davmor2> Kubuntu 7.10 - There Be Dragons Still
[20:27] <manchicken> Kubuntu 7.10 -- No Animals were Harmed in the Making of this Distro (except for nixternal, but that was an accident.)
[20:28] <manchicken> Kubuntu 7.10 - USDA Certified Organic Gutsy
[20:28] <DaSkreech> Though we won't swear to it
[20:28] <manchicken> er, Kubuntu 7.10 - 100% USDA Certified Organic Gutsy
[20:29] <davmor2> Kubuntu 7.10 - Forget the Gibbon go with the Dragon
[20:31] <DaSkreech> Kubuntu 7.10 - Monkey with this!!
[20:31] <manchicken> Kubuntu 7.10 -- Mmm... Monkeys...
[20:31] <davmor2> Kubuntu 7.10 - For Monkey's that breath fire
[20:32] <DaSkreech> Kubuntu 7.10 - Cause honestly Why wouldn't you?
[20:34] <manchicken> Kubuntu 7.10 - Or else the Terrorists have already won.
[20:34] <Riddell> manchicken: did you get a .deb?
[20:34] <DaSkreech> Wouldn't we lose the Terrorist crowd with that?
[20:35] <manchicken> Riddell: Yes.
[20:35] <manchicken> Riddell: Would you like it?
[20:36] <davmor2> DaSkreech: would tick, tick ...... Boom do a better job :)
[20:36] <Riddell> manchicken: yeah, could you attach to the bug?
[20:36] <DaSkreech> davmor2: Naaaw sounds like a Vista ad
[20:37] <davmor2> No that would be "Bad to the bone" ;)
[20:37] <emilsedgh> nixternal: and anywhere that i could get a copy of kubuntu-specific drupal database and files...? i think mhb is not here yet
[20:37] <manchicken> Righto.
[20:40] <Riddell> hi ndrea
[20:40] <ndrea> good day/evening
[20:45] <manchicken> Riddell: Uploading now.  It's big because I included all debs.
[20:59] <ryanakca> emilsedgh: pong
[21:00] <ryanakca> emilsedgh: umm... just a sec :)
[21:00] <emilsedgh> ryanakca: hi, i just want to help on kubuntu website, i get the drupal theme (and installed it on a drupal), is there any todo list? (ok)
[21:01] <ryanakca> emilsedgh: ok, so you got the theme from the bzr branch?
[21:01] <emilsedgh> ryanakca: yes, i have it
[21:01] <ryanakca> good :)
[21:01] <ryanakca> Umm...
[21:02] <emilsedgh> ryanakca: and, im a php programmer with a little knowlegde of drupal modules... and sure a little xhtml/css/js
[21:19] <nixternal> Riddell: Desktop (KDE 3.5.8), File Management (Dolphin), Office Suite (OO.o 2.3), Personal Information Management (KDE PIM), Multimedia (Amarok & Kaffeine), Photo Management (digiKam), Package Management (GDebi KDE), KDE 4 (beta 3), and WinFOSS.  <-- how is that for "What's New?"
[21:20] <_StefanS_> nixternal: damn nice I would say :)
[21:20] <_StefanS_> kde 3.5.8 is really cool aswell.. havent seen anyone else having that included
[21:20] <Riddell> nixternal: some of those aren't new, just call them highlights
[21:20] <Riddell> and beta 3 should be somewhere
[21:21] <Riddell> nixternal: oh, jambi and qyoto would be nice to mention
[21:21] <Riddell> (in universe, usual caveats)
[21:21] <nixternal> Riddell: beta 3 is in there
[21:22] <nixternal> Riddell: so I can change the heading name for them to "Highlights" instead of "What's New?"
[21:22] <nixternal> I like Highlights better imho
[21:22] <Riddell> oh aye
[21:23] <nixternal> aye aye captain
[21:26] <Riddell> nixternal: we also want the final upgrade instructions from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GutsyUpgrades
[21:27] <mhb> emilsedgh: hi
[21:27] <nixternal> ya, I have them in there already
[21:27] <Riddell> you rock
[21:27] <emilsedgh> hi mhb
[21:27] <nixternal> yes, I am a rock, with a hole in my finger, which makes it hard to type
[21:28] <emilsedgh> mhb: could i /msg?
[21:29] <Lure> kopete started crashing (MSN) after recent update - is this already known issue?
[21:29] <mhb> emilsedgh: sure
[21:30] <mhb> Lure: it is
[21:30] <Riddell> Lure: very much
[21:31] <Lure> Riddell: how can a simple kdelibs break kopete!?
[21:31] <Riddell> kdelibs can break all of kde
[21:31] <Lure> Riddell: I know that, but only https fix was changed in last upload?
[21:31] <Riddell> bug 153500 has the fix
[21:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153500 in kdenetwork "Kopete crashes on startup" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153500
[21:32] <Lure> Riddell: will this get in for gutsy?
[21:33] <Riddell> Lure: alas no
[21:33] <Lure> Riddell: so we need first sru ;-)
[21:34] <Riddell> yeah
[21:39] <manchicken> Riddell: (I uploaded those debs by the way)
[21:39] <manchicken> I don't know how clean they are, I didn't use pbuilder.
[21:41] <Riddell> manchicken: thanks
[21:41] <Riddell> that's not too important
[21:43] <mhb> hmm, how come it broke so late in the process?
[21:43] <mhb> I am quite certain I could log into Kopete with KDE 3.5.8
[21:43] <Riddell> 3.5.8 had another bug which we fixed and in the process broke this
[21:44] <mhb> hmm
[21:44] <mhb> we're not going to be praised for this :-(
[22:05] <Dekans|screen> how do we use a debdiff
[22:05] <Dekans|screen> ?
[22:05] <Riddell> Dekans|screen: for the kopete issue?
[22:05] <Dekans|screen> yes, i saw your bugfix
[22:05] <Riddell> Dekans|screen: download the .deb from comment 19
[22:08] <Dekans|screen> oh thanks
[22:08] <Dekans|screen> sorry, i should look entirely the LP entry before asking for help :p
[22:39] <Lure> Riddell: are DVD candidates already available?
[22:39] <Riddell> Lure: yes
[22:40] <Lure> Riddell: on standard location on cdimage.u.c?
[22:40] <Riddell> yes
[22:40] <nixternal> all I have left are screenshots
[22:40] <nixternal> yay!
[22:41] <nixternal> Riddell: I just uploaded the 7.10-release.php to the bzr repo if you want to take a quick look at it...I haven't gone through and debugged it yet, I am working on that now
[22:42] <ScottK> Riddell: In the tribe/RC notes when we've talked about the gpg/smime by default, we've referred to the work around people who installed Feisty fresh need to do to get gpg.conf back.  I think that should be release noted too.
[22:43] <Riddell> ScottK: talk to slangsek
[22:43] <ScottK> Riddell: OK.
[22:45] <davmor2> Riddell: hows thing's?
[22:48] <Riddell> davmor2: being flooded with kopete bugs but otherwise it all works
[22:53] <davmor2> damn
[22:55] <nosrednaekim> hey... I saw that there are KDE4beta3 packages up on the gutsy mirrors, but the export instructions for beta2 don't seem to work with them
[22:56] <davmor2> Riddell: what the hell did you go and break that for :P
[22:56] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: my experience exactly..
[22:56] <Riddell> arguably it's better than https being broken
[22:56] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: does work for me either
[22:56] <Lure> Riddell: so, is gutsy-proposed already working?
[22:56] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: what didn't work about them?
[22:57] <davmor2> Riddell: hahaha true.
[22:57] <Riddell> Lure: publisher is on manual, nothing will be built until tomorrow afternoon
[22:57] <Lure> Riddell: ok, was just suprised that it can be already uploaded
[22:57] <Riddell> it's uploaded, just not doing very much
[22:58] <nosrednaekim> well, I'm not sure if its the export lines, but it fails halfway through loading
[22:58] <nosrednaekim> with the line "startkde: running shutdown scripts..."
[23:00] <nixternal> Riddell: http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/kwww/announcements/7.10-release.php
[23:00] <nixternal> if you want to read it over
[23:01] <Riddell> nixternal: upgrade instructions need updating https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GutsyUpgrades
[23:02] <nixternal> I did update them
[23:02] <nixternal> I copied directly from that page
[23:02] <Riddell> nixternal: noo, that's the old instructions
[23:02] <Riddell> "Network upgrade for Kubuntu desktops (recommended)" section
[23:03] <nixternal> so do the network upgrade instructions instead?
[23:03] <Riddell> do the final upgrade instructions, not the RC ones
[23:03] <Riddell> nixternal: the requirements have gone up too
[23:03] <nixternal> oh
[23:03] <nixternal> OK, easy enough
[23:04] <Riddell> requirements here https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/ReleaseNotes
[23:05] <nosrednaekim> _StefanS_: where does KDE4 fail for you?
[23:05] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: well I didnt investigate it alot, just saw it didnt worked with the instructions
[23:05] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: cant test it now anyways
[23:06] <nosrednaekim> _StefanS_: ah ok... do you remember where it failed?before after or during the boot splash?
[23:06] <_StefanS_> after the bootsplash I think
[23:07] <nosrednaekim> _StefanS_: oh... hmm
[23:08] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: well I know its not much of a help ;)
[23:08] <nosrednaekim> _StefanS_: thanks anyway.. i'll check into it more later
[23:08] <_StefanS_> same  here
[23:14] <DaSkreech> nixternal: You are changing those pics right?
[23:14] <nixternal> yes
[23:16] <DaSkreech> Beta 3 have an announce date?
[23:16] <Riddell> I just published the announcement
[23:17] <DaSkreech> Damn!
[23:17] <Riddell> why?
[23:17]  * DaSkreech kicks his RSS feed
[23:17] <DaSkreech> Otherwise I woudn't have asked :)
[23:18] <Riddell> kubuntu.org is waiting on its cache to refresh
[23:24] <nixternal> wth is wrong with bzr? I can't push or commit
[23:27] <DaSkreech> nixternal: I must be really drugged up
[23:28] <DaSkreech> I kept looking at the pictures saying aww that looks nice till I hit Amarok then I was thinking "Umm that doesn't look like Amarok at all!" that looks like Kontact.. wait thats not kontact at all!!
[23:28] <Riddell> possible the data centre is being killed already
[23:28] <Riddell> kwwii: fancy doing us a release image?
[23:28] <Riddell> I like the one we had for edgy http://kubuntu.org/announcements/6.10-release.php
[23:30] <kwwii> I am sure we can do something along that line with the new usplash/kdm graphics
[23:30] <kwwii> Riddell: when do you need it by?
[23:31] <davmor2> kwwii: yesterday :)
[23:31] <DaSkreech> midnight I would suppose
[23:31] <kwwii> lol, midnight my time is already done
[23:32] <kwwii> Riddell: I can get something to you tomorrow midday, ok with that?
[23:32] <kwwii> same kinda thing, new bg, new text with 7.10
[23:33] <kwwii> well, the new text style from kdm, etc
[23:34] <kwwii> I am done for tonight....too many extranious projects going on at the same time
[23:34]  * DaSkreech laughs at Konqui draped over the 4
[23:35] <DaSkreech> Does Beta 3 have a kode name?
[23:37] <nixternal> hey, we need a KDE 4 beta 3 screenshot (1024x768)
[23:37] <nixternal> and we need the dist-upgrade screenshot as well
[23:37] <Riddell> kwwii: about midday is right
[23:38] <Riddell> nixternal: dot.kde.org links to some
[23:41] <DaSkreech> I shoudl probably reinstall kubuntu-desktop when 7.10 ships
[23:42] <davmor2> DaSkreech: It's in a few hours dude download it now while the servers work :)
[23:42] <DaSkreech> davmor2: Naw I'll hit it up Friday
[23:42] <DaSkreech> In case Strigi goes nuts again
[23:43] <davmor2> :D or like Kopete get's broke ;)
[23:44] <nixternal> Riddell: roger that
[23:44] <DaSkreech> Naw that I'm saving for KDE4 :)
[23:58] <davmor2> night all and happy buntu day :)


[05:43] <thepheinex> hi all
[05:46] <thepheinex> is anyone here?
[05:46] <wxl> someone is.
[05:46] <thepheinex> lol
[05:46] <thepheinex> hi
[05:46] <wxl> yo
[05:47] <wxl> don't mind me. i'm working on becoming a font designer. :)
[05:47] <thepheinex> thats ok
[05:47] <wxl> you need something?
[05:48] <thepheinex> im new to ubuntu working on get it booted
[05:48] <wxl> you pick a strange channel to seek support from :)
[05:49] <thepheinex> oh ok
[05:49] <wxl> #ubuntu would be the ideal place for that, assuming you're using ubuntu proper
[05:49] <wxl> this channel is for help related to Local Communities (LoCos)
[05:49] <wxl> which brings up another point: many LoCos offer in person support
[05:50] <thepheinex> oh ok sorry
[05:50] <wxl> you should see if you have one!
[05:50] <thepheinex> thanks for your help
[05:50] <wxl> hey no problem
[05:50] <wxl> have a great day and welcome to the community thepheinex :)
[05:50] <thepheinex> thanks
[05:51] <thepheinex> what is it i need to have/?
[05:51] <wxl> to boot ubuntu?
[05:51] <thepheinex> ye
[05:51] <thepheinex> yes
[05:52] <wxl> oh it's pretty easy. you download the iso, burn it to a cd, reboot, and there you have ubuntu (you may have to adjust bios settings to get the machine to boot to cd first)
[05:52] <wxl> if you want to go to the official support channel just type:
[05:52] <wxl>  /join #ubuntu
[05:52] <wxl> without the space
[05:53] <thepheinex> ok
[05:53] <wxl> there are 1667 nicks there rather than the 44 here :)
[05:53] <wxl> so the help is a lot better~!
[05:53] <thepheinex> ok thanks
[05:54] <wxl> no problem!
[23:20] <nadaeus> hi dear all, please I have a persistent problem since months ago
[23:21] <nadaeus> It's been there a while now but no solution for me as yet: wifi after resume/suspend
[23:21] <nadaeus> tried almost everything on the net, but in vein
[23:21] <nadaeus> anyone can help?
[23:30] <geochr> mhall119, Hi mhall119  are you available gor a few minutes?


[01:38] <infinity> Laney: You around?
[01:38] <infinity> Laney: Do you know, off-hand, if revving fpc from 2.4.x to 2.6 will require any sort of revdep rebuild transition?
[01:39] <infinity> Laney: I'm seriously considering the version bump to get the armhf port included.
[01:40] <infinity> Laney: And you're my resident "guy who keeps track of weird languages and compilers". :P
[03:59] <vibhav> good morning
[05:17] <broder> is there an AA around i could get to binNEW the mosh backports?
[05:29] <pitti> Good morning
[05:52] <rickspencer3> good morning pitti
[05:52] <rickspencer3> no unstable job, no archive problems?
[05:52] <rickspencer3> nice
[05:52] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[05:52] <pitti> I don't intend to introduce any :)
[05:53] <rickspencer3> pitti, does that mean you are using precise -proposed for everything now?
[05:55] <pitti> rickspencer3: not for everything, too much overhead; but we can use it for all the bits which are prone to introduce problems
[05:55] <rickspencer3> awesome
[05:56] <micahg> pitti: oh, -proposed is available again?
[05:56] <pitti> micahg: bug 930217 :)
[05:57] <micahg> ooh, great
[05:57] <pitti> it got set to "fix released" over the weekend
[05:57] <pitti> so apparetnly rolled out now
[05:58] <RAOF> We're not thinking of rolling a full unstable→testing like promotion system, I take it?
[05:58] <pitti> rickspencer3: need to ask jibel to restart the upgrade tests; they haven't run for 4 days now, and we have two major fixes rolled out now
[05:58] <pitti> RAOF: eventually, but we don't have that yet
[05:58] <pitti> RAOF: just with immediate migration, not with 10 days of waiting or so
[05:58] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti
[05:58] <RAOF> That sounds like a fairly large amount of work.
[05:58] <pitti> RAOF: we currently move stuff to precise from -proposed as soon as it built everywhere and doesn't introduce  uninstallability
[05:59] <pitti> RAOF: it's nontrivial, but not huge really -- britney in Debian does that all the time, and we use it to produce http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise-proposed_probs.html, etc.
[05:59] <RAOF> Having a staging area will be awesome.
[06:26] <pikkachu> not sure if this is the right channel but I've noted really wrong translations in oneiric (not as opposed to other versions)
[06:26] <pikkachu> rosetta is nice but it can't do the entire job
[06:27] <pikkachu> gettext is not so good and we often need to refer to the source code for translating stuff correctly
[06:27] <pikkachu> filenames in LP's po files are not big help...
[06:27] <pikkachu> what effort is being done to fix this situation?
[06:28] <pikkachu> because untranslated strings seem much better than absolutely wrong translations
[07:13] <dholbach> good morning
[07:33] <janimo`> pitti, thumbs up for the systemd investigation!
[08:15] <geser> "Sometimes I have the impression that Martin Pitt is doing everything in Ubuntu." (https://plus.google.com/115547683951727699051/posts/MuB3MkCnieK)
[08:17] <ajmitch> that's not too far off the truth
[08:18] <tumbleweed> except the bit about hte last bastion crumbling
[08:25] <pitti> jibel: do you know why the jenkins upgrade jobs haven't run for four days?
[08:27] <pitti> so http://www.ubuntu.com/ still has the goggles
[08:27] <pitti> so is it real after all!?!
[08:27] <hrw> hi
[08:27] <hrw> does someone uses apt-cacher-ng?
[08:27] <pitti> well, I guess it's still April 1 on some distant islands in the pacific
[08:28] <jibel> pitti, they are running, but results are not published. I think that's the follow up of the maintenance of last week but I don't have access to the public jenkins
[08:28] <Laney> infinity: no idea I'm afraid (even I'm not crazy enough to touch pascal :P). I suggest asking the Debian maintainer
[08:28] <geser> hrw: yes, I use it for my pbuilder and my packaging chroot
[08:30] <hrw> geser: I use a-c-ng on precise machines and 'W: Failed to fetch bzip2:/var/lib/apt/lists/partial/de.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_precise_universe_binary-i386_Packages  Hash Sum mismatch' started to be daily norm ;(
[08:31] <tumbleweed> hrw: I've seen that with some upstream mirrors. Deleting dists from the cache and restarting it helps :/
[08:32] <hrw> tumbleweed: will try other mirror then cause removal+restart did not help
[08:32] <Laney> is the file actually correct on the mirror?
[08:33] <Laney> forcing a check has always fixed it for me
[08:33] <Laney> but the fact that it happens at all (every 2-3 weeks here) is annoying, granted
[08:33] <geser> hrw: I use archive.u.c to no to have to wait on the mirror pulse and updated yesterday my precise box without problems
[08:34] <hrw> ok, changed from de to pl mirror and it works
[08:34] <hrw> 516MB update is fetching ow
[08:39] <pitti> jibel: ah, thanks; so I'll just wait for that to come back online before I bother you again
[08:39] <henrix> pitti: hi! i was checking the kernel pkgs status, and there are a few still to be copied into -proposed
[08:39] <pitti> jibel: I'm just curious to see whether the LibO and at-spi stuff have worked :)
[08:40] <henrix> pitti: is there any problem with them, or they're just on the queue?
[08:40] <pitti> henrix: just on the queue; I don't look at them every day, and I seem to be the only one who does..
[08:40] <henrix> pitti: ah, ok :)
[08:40]  * pitti does now
[08:40] <henrix> pitti: great, thanks
[08:41] <Riddell> @pilot in
[08:41] <pitti> Riddell: happy flying
[08:42] <Riddell> whee
[08:43] <vibhav> Who are patch pilots?
[08:44] <pitti> henrix: there will be some packages again which will land in main instead of universe; I'll clean up after them once your bot complains
[08:45] <pitti> henrix: i. e. that's a normal part of the workflow for lucid (unfortunately..)
[08:45] <Riddell> vibhav: hi
[08:45] <henrix> pitti: ok, no prob. do you receive the bot notifications? or do you want me to ping you back?
[08:45] <pitti> henrix: I do get the notifications
[08:46] <vibhav> hi Riddell
[08:46] <henrix> pitti: ok, cool.
[08:46] <henrix> pitti: thanks
[08:49] <jibel> pitti, lucid universe failed http://paste.ubuntu.com/911209/
[08:49] <jibel> pitti, lucid server, desktop and main pass
[08:50] <pitti> jibel: does oneiric pass again, with the LibO fix?
[08:50] <jibel> pitti, oneiric desktop failed with bug 969707
[08:50] <pitti> argh, that
[08:51] <pitti> jibel: ok, I just discussed that with Sweetshark
[08:51] <jibel> same for oneiric main
[08:51] <jibel> and same for universe
[08:53] <pitti> jibel: erk, seems the at-spi fix didn't work; thanks for the log
[08:54] <pitti> ah, python-pyatspi has a versioned dependency on at-spi, so Provides: isn't enough
[08:54] <pitti> TheMuso: ^ FYI
[08:56] <jamespage> larsduesing, around?
[08:57] <pitti> jibel: reopened bug 966845
[10:21] <TheMuso> dholbach: Who is patch piloting on Wednesday April 11? I need to arrange a swap as I am on holiday the week after.
[10:25] <seb128> TheMuso, the calendar is public<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:44] <dholbach> TheMuso, you can just move the shift to another day if you like
[10:57] <henrix> pitti: sorry for bothering again, but i still can't see the new packages on -proposed. is that normal to take that long?
[10:57] <pitti> henrix: indeed, it's a bit weird -- the SRU page did not yet update either
[10:57] <pitti> it normally takes half an hour
[10:57] <henrix> pitti: yeah, that's what i though. any ideas about what's going on?
[10:58] <pitti> henrix: not off-hand, need to check
[10:58] <henrix> pitti: thanks
[10:58] <cjwatson> We missed a couple of publisher runs, possibly due to LP maintenance.
[10:58] <cjwatson> 2012-04-02 08:57:33 DEBUG   Removing lock file: /var/lock/launchpad-publisher.lock
[10:58] <cjwatson> 2012-04-02 10:33:04 DEBUG   Cronscript control file not found at file:cronscripts.ini
[10:58] <cjwatson> But it's running now.
[11:00] <larsduesing> pitti - may I ask you a really dumb question?
[11:19] <bdrung> smoser: i rewrote distro-info in C. it is way faster than shell.
[11:19] <pitti> larsduesing: at lunch, just ask :)
[11:20] <larsduesing> pitti: sorry.. problem was on my side, cleared seconds ago
[11:20] <larsduesing> :)
[11:25] <janimo`> bdrung, pitti dholbach do you know off the tops of your heads a 3.0 (quilt)/dh package that does per-architecture application of a patch?
[11:27] <AnAnt> janimo`: if you find out, please tell me
[11:27] <AnAnt> janimo`: just wondering, what's your package ?
[11:28] <janimo`> AnAnt, mongodb
[11:39] <henrix> pitti: the bot just complained about wrong component :)
[11:40] <bdrung> janimo`: sorry, i can't remember one that uses per-arch or per-distro patches
[11:47] <maxsv23> åñòü êòî ïî ðóññêè
[11:58] <Riddell> pitti: can you tell debfx how your qt 4.8.1 tests went?
[12:07] <dholbach> janimo`, no, unfortunately not
[12:08] <janimo`> dholbach, bdrung thanks anyway
[12:09] <pitti> janimo`: no, I don't know one off-hand, I'm afraid
[12:10] <bdrung> janimo`: in many cases it is useful to have a patch that supports all architectures. per-arch patches are unlikely to get accepted by upstreams.
[12:11] <janimo`> bdrung, I know, but sometimes for too invasive patches which upstream does not take in this form it still make sense to have a fix for arm or other targets
[12:11] <pitti> Riddell, debfx: I haven't done exhaustive testing, but unity-2d starts just fine with qt 4.8.1, and basic functionality (indicators, launcher, dash, hud) is working fine
[12:11] <cjwatson> surely #ifdef isn't too hard
[12:12] <janimo`> cjwatson, doable in most cases
[12:12] <janimo`> I could not do it  last time I needed this (in ghc)
[12:13] <janimo`> most arm patches of course use ifdefs but for the few exceptions I was curious if per-arch is possible
[12:14] <dross> is there a channel where I can ask ubuntu wiki questions about posting a "FreeNX is dead, here's a list of alternatives" on the FreeNX page?
[12:14] <dross> I don't want to piss people off :3 but FreeNX has been inactive since 08'
[12:24] <debfx> pitti: thanks for testing
[12:33] <AnAnt> bdrung: swt-gtk is an example of an upstream that provides two source tarballs, one for 32-bit arch, another for 64-bit arch
[12:34] <AnAnt> btw, I have sync'ed/merged TeXLive pre-2012 package from Debian for Precise on my PPA: ppa:aelmahmoudy/tl2009 , please note that a couple of packages (cm-super & texlive-base) were sync'ed rather than merged, probably I would merge texlive-base on next Debian upload.
[13:24] <smoser> bdrung, really? wow. cool.
[13:25] <bdrung> smoser: ubuntu-distro-info passes all test. i am cleaning up the code and then work on debian-distro-info
[13:25] <smoser> i woudl guess you could do a run in 20% of the sh.
[13:26] <bdrung> smoser: 25x times faster without startup time and 3.8x times faster with startup time.
[13:26] <smoser> what is "without startup time" ?
[13:26] <bdrung> smoser: a for loop in C calling main multiple times
[13:27] <bdrung> i guess that fork takes too long
[13:27] <smoser> yeah. fork is heavy.
[13:27] <smoser> by guess of 5x was based on the fact that /bin/true is 6x faster than the shell version
[13:27] <smoser> :)
[13:27] <bdrung> smoser: 1000x times u-d-t in C: 0.037s (without fork) and 0.4 s (with fork)
[13:33] <bdrung> smoser: the fork takes longer that running u-d-i
[13:39] <smoser> bdrung, right. thats the case for loads of utilities.
[13:39] <smoser> fork is very heavy
[13:40] <smoser> although extremely performant on linux compared to other unixes
[13:41] <smoser> the 'date' fork in the shell version accounts for 30% of its execution time.
[13:47] <smoser> anyone know of a way to get a list of supported locales ?
[13:48] <smoser> er... i guess more explicitly i'm looking for a list of all 'language-pack-XX'
[13:55] <bdrung> smoser: the binary is 3x bigger
[13:59] <smoser> bdrung, i'm perfectly fine with you replacing shell with c.  I wont have my feelings hurt if you replace it.  I suspect that in any real world usage, the current version is not likely to bottleneck anything.  (unlikely that tab completion is going to be affected by a reduction in run time from 1/100th of a second to 1/1000th)
[14:00] <bdrung> smoser: i don't wanted to make your work wasted, but i had some free time and was curious about the possible speed improvement.
[14:00] <smoser> pitti, i suspect maybe you know about a list of supported language packs ^
[14:00] <smoser> bdrung, yeah. i get itches like that too :)
[14:01] <cjwatson> directhex: were you intending to backport https://github.com/mono/mono-tools/commit/59e0b16bff03d0df812d62a6ac71ce373d6d5cc4 to the package in precise, or do you want me to do it?
[14:01] <smoser> bdrung, really, i'm perfectly ok if you want to use the C version. i would suggest not bothering for 12.04 though.
[14:01] <cjwatson> directhex: (failed in the test rebuild)
[14:02] <pitti> smoser: apt-cache search language-pack | grep ^language-pack ?
[14:02] <bdrung> smoser: you could sell the shell version as learning experience. ;) distro-info was written in python, haskell, shell, and C with interesting results.
[14:02] <directhex> cjwatson, curse automake upstream with the fire of 10,000 suns (i believe grub was also hit by this idiocy)
[14:02] <smoser> pitti, yeah, ubt i wondered if there was a cleaner way. i shouldhave said that: apt-cache search ^language-pack-[a-z][a-z]$ | sed 's, .*,,; s,language-pack-,,'
[14:02] <directhex> cjwatson, i think the sid package has that backported change
[14:02] <cjwatson> directhex: I fixed it in grub2 a little while back, yes
[14:03] <smoser> i just wondered if there was some list that i could definitively reference.
[14:03] <directhex> cjwatson, sync from sid should be all you need. http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/mono-tools/mono-tools_2.10-2/changelog
[14:03] <cjwatson> directhex: ah yes, good point.  will sync
[14:03] <cjwatson> looked for bug reports but not uploads, duh
[14:05] <directhex> cjohnston, if you hit more 1.11.2 issues in mono packages, fix likely contains a fix
[14:05] <directhex> er, cjwatson
[14:09] <cjwatson> directhex: sure, thanks
[14:10] <directhex> *sid* contains a fix. can't type today
[14:10] <directhex> computers are hard
[14:10] <Laney> mmm fix
[14:13] <cjwatson> smoser: if this is for a seed, why not just use germinate's globbing capability?
[14:13] <smoser> cjwatson, not for a seed.
[14:13] <smoser> cjwatson, for https://code.launchpad.net/~utlemming/cloud-init/cloud-init.locale/+merge/100257
[14:14] <cjwatson> can't you use python-apt?
[14:15] <cjwatson> >>> import apt
[14:15] <cjwatson> >>> cache = apt.Cache()
[14:15] <cjwatson> >>> len([pkg for pkg in cache if pkg.name.startswith('language-pack-')])
[14:15] <cjwatson> 826
[14:15] <cjwatson> obv. something a bit more sophisticated :)
[14:16] <diwic> bkerensa, you pinged me the other day. I'm around now, but not for that much longer today.
[14:16] <utlemming> cjwatson, smoser: I'm missing the back drop here, but I assume the issue is the list of valid locales?
[14:16] <smoser> cjwatson, yeah, that might be preferable.
[14:17] <smoser> utlemming, well, i was just not interested in hard coding if i didn't have to.
[14:19] <utlemming> smoser: fair enough...I put the list of locales for two reasons 1) simplisitity and; 2) since another merge proposal which used a dynamic discover method was nixed
[14:20] <utlemming> smoser: I'm not opposed to a dynamic discovery method and would actually like to have that bit of code dynamic. But in looking at it, you have to us a regex because you have kde and gnome language packs.
[14:30] <smoser> utlemming, well, use python-apt. but i'm not beng on that. i added some comments there.
[14:37] <alexbligh> I'm seeing a fantastically weird problem on a Lucid install in a particular virtualised environment where eth0 and eth0:1 (same interface) both have static IPs in /etc/network/interfaces, eth0 is numbered immediately on boot, but eth0:1 takes **OVER TWO MINUTES** to get its IP address. Any idea where in upstart or whatever I should even start looking to find what's causing this?
[14:47] <bdrung> smoser: oldstable breaks my algorithm
[14:58] <stgraber> alexbligh: (that's just from memory, things may be slightly different in 10.04) I suspect that eth0 being a physical interface it gets setup as soon as we get the kernel udev event (so very early)
[14:59] <stgraber> alexbligh: but eth0:0 being a label on eth0, it only gets configured when we hit the fallback /etc/init/networking.conf, so once we start calling the sysvinit stuff
[14:59] <stgraber> alexbligh: which means that if you have any upstart job/ifupdown script/... that takes a long time to start, it'll delay the setup of eth0:0
[15:10] <alexbligh> stgraber, it's an ordering problem. We have stuff which should run after the interfaces have been configured (which is what is causing us the problem). Specifically, rc2.d seems to be being run before all the interfaces are configured.
[15:11] <alexbligh> stgraber, that appears to be because rc-sysinit.conf is "start on filesystem and net-device-up IFACE=lo"
[15:12] <stgraber> alexbligh: yeah, we fixed that in 11.10
[15:12] <stgraber> alexbligh: /etc/init/rc-sysinit.conf:start on (filesystem and static-network-up) or failsafe-boot
[15:12] <alexbligh> stgraber, oh really?
[15:12] <micahg> janimo`: I think firefox is doing per arch patches at the moment
[15:12] <stgraber> alexbligh: and static-network-up is emitted once all static entries in /etc/network/interfaces have been configured
[15:12] <alexbligh> stgraber, is that safe to backport to Lucid?
[15:13] <stgraber> alexbligh: so you shouldn't have that problem with 11.10 or 12.04 (though I'm not too sure about our behaviour with labels, would have to check)
[15:13] <alexbligh> stgraber, i.e. is it just the one line change in rc-sysinit.conf or do I have to emit the event too?
[15:13] <stgraber> alexbligh: no, it's unfortunately not safe to backport to Lucid and that's why we didn't
[15:13] <alexbligh> stgraber, unfortunately we are stuck with Lucid for the time being (until precise is out).
[15:14] <janimo`> micahg, thanks. I was hoping a 'sane' package can be used as an example, I don't think firefox uses 3.0 and dh
[15:14] <janimo`> but then again, 'sane' packages do not need per-arch patches :)
[15:14] <alexbligh> stgraber, is a safe hack to put an interface up script for eth0 which does 'ifup eth0:1'?
[15:14] <stgraber> alexbligh: you'd have to backport a few upstart jobs, some ifupdown hooks and maybe even some udev hooks, I spent a few days considering doing that when working on other issues (bonding and bridging mostly) but the risk of regression was considered too high
[15:15] <stgraber> alexbligh: "up ifup eth0:1 || true" would be better. It's an hack but should be safe, yes
[15:15] <alexbligh> Or actually I can take them up from the thing running from sysvinit, can't I (doh).
[15:16] <alexbligh> stgraber, thanks, that's really helpful.
[15:17] <stgraber> alexbligh: you're welcome. Would be great if you could test your setup with 12.04 beta2 (in a VM or something) to make sure your issue was indeed taken care of
[15:17] <stgraber> alexbligh: if it didn't then file a bug against "ifupdown" so we can take a look before 12.04 is released
[15:18] <alexbligh> stgraber, we need to do precise testing at some point. Annoyingly our next version release date is just before precise, so we are stuck with Lucid + Oneiric backport kernel :-/
[15:33] <pitti> sconklin: hey Steve
[15:33] <sconklin> Hi pitti
[15:33] <pitti> sconklin: did you notice that I had a question for you on bug 955111 ?
[15:33] <sconklin> no, thank you. I'l plowing through email still
[15:34] <sconklin> looking
[15:34] <leex> hi, I just read about capsicum and was wondering whether capsicum support will come to ubuntu, if it is on your todo/wishlist.
[15:35] <sconklin> pitti, well, this is interesting, look at what I got - I mistyped lsb-release the first time http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/911614/
[15:36] <pitti> sconklin: can you check whether this goes to stdout or stderr?
[15:36] <sconklin> I get is if I type anything into the shell
[15:36] <sconklin> stand by
[15:36] <pitti> yes, anything that calls python
[15:36] <pitti> it's an error message that python itself prints
[15:36] <pitti> and I suspect it's going to stdout
[15:37] <pitti> sconklin: the first one was from command-not-found, FYI
[15:37] <sconklin> pitti: stderr
[15:37] <pitti> sconklin: i. e. you don't see them with lsb_release -si 2>/dev/null ?
[15:38] <cjwatson> you'll probably just need to upgrade those local libraries
[15:38] <sconklin> I do not see them with stdout directed to null. I do see them in a file I piped from stderr. Two test cases, same result
[15:39] <sconklin> cjwatson: I have an app with a fixed version edpendency, that's why I installed those locally
[15:39] <cjwatson> not a good idea to have them in place for all applications though ...?
[15:39] <sconklin> agreed
[15:40] <sconklin> I should shell up an env for the app
[15:42] <pitti> sconklin: hm, I checked both calls to lsb_release, and in both it just grabs stdout; very weird
[15:42] <pitti> sconklin: anyway, I'll try to reproduce this by adding some gibberish to lsb_release
[15:42] <sconklin> pitti: but remember it happens for anything I pass to the shell, it doesn't even have to be lsb_release
[15:44] <pitti> sconklin: thanks for checking
[15:44] <pitti> sconklin: ah, found it; it's in our ubuntu package hook only, that's why I didn't find it in trunk
[15:47] <sconklin> pitti, cjwatson: and I just pulled the LD_LIBRARY_PATH change out of my bashrc and put it in a script that invokes the app. That removed the error.
[15:48] <pitti> and fixed in bzr
[15:48] <pitti> with that, good night everyone!
[15:48] <sconklin> Thanks!
[15:53] <apw> ia32-libs ia32-libs-multiarch:i386 <-- is this something i am expecting to be REMOVED
[15:55] <Sweetshark> pitti: so the issue is, the extension is still assumed to be register, so we kill it and reinstall the extension. _rene_ then says unopkg then thinks the extension is already there so it noops. which is why he wants to run sync_extensions before installing to make unopkg notice it has to reregister.
[16:27] <mpt> ev, you've fixed bug 737791
[16:27] <ev> nice
[16:27] <ev> closing
[16:36] <cyphermox> hallyn: re libnl3; did you make any progress?
[16:38] <cyphermox> hallyn:  I have an updated patch, though it doesn't include the changes to generated files (http://people.ubuntu.com/~mathieu-tl/libnl3-updated.patch). Adding the other changes should be as easy as doing a diff of configure and src/Makefile.in, daemon/Makefile.in  after configure
[16:40] <hallyn> cyphermox: no, i'm afraid there are plenty of higher prio bugs first :(  Note that waht upstream wants to see is a patch that allows the choice of libnl-1 or libnl-3.  Then they'd be willing to take it.  how hard would that be to do?
[16:43] <hallyn> cyphermox: so the patch above should fix the -I path to include /usr/include/libnl3?
[16:53] <cyphermox> hallyn: yes, if there aren't other instances where a netlink/msg.h file is needed and doesn't have LIBNL_CFLAGS
[16:53] <hallyn> cyphermox: thanks
[16:54] <cyphermox> hallyn: fixing it to choose the version is pretty simple, yes, just needs a bit more code since there are some different calls between NL1 and NL3
[17:02] <hallyn> cyphermox: i assume the configure.ac bit will be the ugliest :)  I do intend to give it a try arounds uds time.  if no kind soul beats me to it :)
[17:02] <cyphermox> what's the purpose for the update, just preparing for precise+1?
[17:03] <cyphermox> otherwise we can sit together at some point at UDS around a beer and I'll be happy explain the details
[17:05] <hallyn> cyphermox: right, well, just to get the patch upstream so we don't have to carry delta and worry about regressions.  sitting down at uds sounds great  :)
[17:05] <cyphermox> cool
[18:18] <Bluefoxicy> What's with all the non-deterministic status indicators?
[18:18] <Bluefoxicy> Back when Ubuntu started, it would blurt all kinds of boot indicators to the screen
[18:19] <Bluefoxicy> Removing all that was a mistake, but I was assured quite firmly that this was inconsequential because, "unlike Windows," the status indicator for boot was a deterministic progress meter.
[18:20] <Bluefoxicy> Now there's no such thing, the download progress meters for i.e. Update Manager are non-deterministic things that bounce back and forth, and everything leaves me wondering how fast and how far
[18:20] <Bluefoxicy> Is Ubuntu hanging on boot?  It seems to be taking longer today... maybe I'm just bored, I dunno.
[18:20] <Bluefoxicy> Is my ISP being slow, or is this just the normal 2 minute download?
[18:20] <Bluefoxicy> etc
[18:21] <Bluefoxicy> You may as well not give any indication that anything's going on at all:  if the application hangs, the status bar will gleefully bounce back and forth while nothing happens
[18:49] <Riddell> @pilot out
[19:16] <smoser> mvo, i'd really appreciate you  looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squid-deb-proxy/+bug/971820
[19:16] <mvo> smoser: sure!
[19:48] <smoser> mvo, do you understand the problem there?
[19:48] <mvo> yes
[19:48] <smoser> the issue is that those files get cached and cached stale, and there is nothing that you can do (from the other side of the mirror) to resolve it.
[19:48] <smoser> s/mirror/proxy/
[19:50] <mvo> smoser:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~racb/squid-deb-proxy/apt_refresh/revision/16 <- that is pretty much what you need, right?
[19:51] <smoser> yeah, i think so. i'm of course going to defer to your better knowledge of apt
[19:52] <smoser> mvo, i swear there is a setting tha tyou can tell squid...
[19:52] <smoser> to check the headers every time
[19:52] <smoser> (and maybe this is it)
[19:52] <smoser> but rather than downloading the whole thing every time, check the headers.
[19:53] <jcastro> mvo: while you're in there and want to sort https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squid-deb-proxy/+bug/952364 that would be great too. :)
[19:53] <mvo> smoser: for squid question, I always ask lifeless :) he knows all about it
[19:53] <smoser> exactly.
[19:54] <mvo> jcastro: right, that would be a great feature too, I don't know if squid can be configured to do that, but I can dig around a bit
[19:56] <smoser> mvo, if you just deny, i think that files dont get cached.
[19:56] <smoser> its weird.
[19:56] <smoser> orchestra used to deny the packages.gz and such.
[19:56] <smoser> they still came through
[19:58] <rbasak> smoser: yes, that's exactly what my squid.conf lines do in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~racb/squid-deb-proxy/apt_refresh/revision/16 - they will only download the files if they're newer, otherwise will use the cache. But they will check every time.
[19:59] <smoser> rbasak, thank you.
[20:01] <smoser> mvo, jcastro fwiw, orchestra used to do this:
[20:01] <smoser>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/911976/
[20:01] <smoser> and iiuic that basically does what castro wanted.
[20:01] <smoser> of course, you stil spend bandwidth as a proxy for those things that you weren't going to cache.
[20:02] <jcastro> right, but it beats having the thing being totally unreachable, like it is now\
[20:05] <rbasak> I'm not aware of a single situation where using squid with http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~racb/squid-deb-proxy/apt_refresh/revision/16 can fail when going direct will work.
[20:10] <mvo> smoser, rbasak: its uploaded now with the changes in rev16, thanks!
[20:10] <rbasak> thanks mvo!
[20:11] <smoser> gracias.
[20:11] <mvo> jcastro: so the only reason unrestricted access is not enabled by default currently is to allow this to be dropped into a already restricted network without opening up generic http access via this squid-deb-proxy, I guess it could be argued that this is something that a admin should restirct himself/herself and that convinence is better. or we add another debconf question, but that is not very discoverable either :/
[20:13] <jcastro> I think not having an unrestricted proxy is reasonable; ideally the proxy saying "fine, go download from this random repository, I will neither help you nor hinder you" sounds like a good middle ground to me
[20:18] <rbasak> jcastro: the security issue isn't whether it caches your deb or not (pretty minor, just a DoS of the cache), but whether you can get the deb or not (pretty major - could subvert an existing security policy controlling general access). I favour a debconf option.
[20:18] <mvo> jcastro: right, my thinking (but bear in mind that I'm not a sysadmin :) was that the proxy host has usually different network restrictions than the regular clients, so opening up the proxy sounds potentially dangerous to me
[20:19] <jcastro> mvo: we should just ask elmo what to do. :) Or perhaps grab a -security guy at UDS or something, whatever works for me.
[20:20] <mvo> jcastro: yeah, someone more experienced than me on this and I will happly implement whatever they suggest, for now I'm totally fine with a debconf prompt
[20:20] <mvo> jcastro: note that I want this to be as simple as possible really
[20:20] <rbasak> If we want full access through the proxy, why not just use the main squid package?
[21:03] <stgraber> pitti: ping (TB -> #ubuntu-meeting)
[21:04] <stgraber> kees: ^
[21:09] <kees> ah!
[21:11] <seb128> slangasek, hey
[21:12] <slangasek> seb128: hey there
[21:12] <seb128> slangasek, how responsive is freetype upstream to issues they would create for i.e gtk? ;-)
[21:12] <slangasek> seb128: they should be responsive... but there's no test suite to catch regressions, so you can expect any fix for an issue you're seeing to be bundled with another regression or two somewhere else :P
[21:13] <seb128> slangasek, underlining is broken in some cases in gtk (reported by mvo today), I tracked it down to freetype
[21:13] <slangasek> is this with the 2.4.8+security fixes?
[21:13] <seb128> slangasek, i.e ld preloading the oneiric version fixes it up, .9 doesn't fix it
[21:13] <slangasek> ok
[21:13] <seb128> slangasek, it's between oneiric 2.4.2 and precise
[21:14] <slangasek> upstream git should be reasonably bisectable, I guess
[21:16] <seb128> slangasek, there is quite some commit between those versions, would have been nice to not skip 6 versions :p
[21:16] <seb128> slangasek, anyway I will try to figure when it started and come back ;-)
[21:16] <slangasek> 4,6,7 were all uploaded to Debian, I don't recall if they made it into precise
[22:18] <seb128> slangasek, ok, found the commit, it's http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/freetype/freetype2.git/commit/?id=b0962ac34e66052ccfee7996e5468f30d4bd5a72
[22:19] <slangasek> hmm
[22:19] <slangasek> ok, that's the second regression I've seen from that committer in the past year
[22:19] <seb128> slangasek, not sure how to process next, it could be that freetype is right and that something else needs fixing :-(
[22:19] <slangasek> s/committer/author/
[22:19] <slangasek> yes, that's always the concern :/
[22:20] <seb128> slangasek, but applying that patch to 2.4.5 creates the bug, or reverting it in newer version fixes the bug
[22:21] <seb128> slangasek, the testcase from mvo is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/955030/+attachment/2988350/+files/lala.py
[22:21] <slangasek> seb128: ah, no, that's the *same* commit that was earlier reported as a regression: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=636776
[22:21] <slangasek> in fact, that's the exact commit why oneiric stuck with 2.4.4
[22:22] <seb128> slangasek, that breaks the underlining in that gtk example
[22:22]  * slangasek nods
[22:22] <seb128> slangasek, can we revert that commit in precise? ;-)
[22:23] <slangasek> seb128: sure - you want to do it, or do you want me to?
[22:23] <slangasek> seb128: can you also take that test case to upstream<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:23] <seb128> slangasek, it's time to bed for me but I can do it tomorrow if you want
[22:23] <slangasek> that'd be fine
[22:23] <seb128> slangasek, ok, I can do that as well tomorrow
[22:23] <seb128> slangasek, ok, I will do the commit revert and email the upstream list tomorrow, thanks!
[22:26] <slangasek> seb128: thanks for tracking this down... maybe we can talk upstream into implementing a proper test suite :P
[22:26] <seb128> let's see, I would be happy enough if they come with an upstream fix for the regression to start ;-)
[22:29] <stgraber> cjwatson: can you approve my e-mail to ubuntu-devel-announce?
[22:31] <cjwatson> stgraber: done
[22:35] <stgraber> cjwatson: thanks
[23:04] <bdrung> smoser: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/distro-info.git;a=commitdiff;h=c4f8e5dc44b6dec640c3222becc9d11d21a84078
[23:05] <bdrung> smoser: i moved your shell scripts into the script/ subdirectory.
[23:06] <bryceh> slangasek, would you mind perusing bug #971767?  I'm wondering if it might be due to something lower down than X, but I'm not sure where to look.
[23:06] <slangasek> sure, lookin'
[23:07] <bryceh> slangasek, we're seeing a spate of vaguely similar-ish bugs against xserver, that seem to involve weird memory corruption, double-free'd pointers, and so on, but for ones we have good traces the code where the crash occurs looks fine.  But makes me thing something just is not right in the stack.
[23:08] <bryceh> (e.g. bug 943880 which seems relatively common)
[23:08] <slangasek> bryceh: well, you have a binary blob video driver that has access to the stack, right?  That would be my first guess...
[23:08] <slangasek> bryceh: will X run under valgrind?
[23:09] <bryceh> slangasek, it will
[23:09] <bryceh> slangasek, in fact cnd was just doing that for debugging the latter bug
[23:09]  * slangasek nods
[23:09] <slangasek> so it's exceedingly unlikely that malloc itself is broken here
[23:10]  * cnd hopes so
[23:10] <slangasek> I think you have heap corruption, and valgrind's the best tool for finding that
[23:10] <bryceh> slangasek, ok, thanks
[23:10] <YokoZar> I should have guessed ScottK would be the curmudgeon to reject my beautiful package ;)
[23:11] <bryceh> slangasek, ok, so it's not an obvious bug you already know of in say libc
[23:11] <slangasek> nope
[23:29] <cnd> slangasek, due to a miscommunication in our team, the latest utouch-frame was uploaded this past friday with a switch to dh 9 and multiarch
[23:29] <cnd> should we revert the change, or let it slide, or?
[23:30] <infinity> How many rdeps does it have, and have they all been tested?
[23:30] <infinity> cnd: ^
[23:30] <slangasek> cnd: ^^ what infinity asked
[23:30] <slangasek> we need to follow through to make sure the revdeps don't regress
[23:31] <cnd> utouch-grail, utouch-geis, unity, libgrip, evince, eog
[23:31] <slangasek> I actually don't see the last four as deps
[23:31] <cnd> unity still works, that takes care of grail and geis
[23:32] <slangasek> utouch-grail, utouch-geis, mtview
[23:32] <slangasek> those are what we have to care about from a build perspective
[23:32] <cnd> slangasek, is it just building that we are worried about?
[23:32] <cnd> or runtime too?
[23:32] <infinity> If everything still works, both at buildtime and runtime, reverting would be gratuitously perverse.  But please do make sure.
[23:32] <slangasek> for multiarch, it's just a build issue
[23:33] <infinity> (But yeah, for C libs, runtime should always Just Work)
[23:33] <cnd> ok, well we'll watch the precise archive rebuilds
[23:33] <infinity> Unless you've done something horribly hackishly wrong.
[23:33] <cnd> and fix up anything that breaks
[23:33] <cnd> but I would expect things to just work
[23:33] <slangasek> cnd: the archive rebuild already started before Friday - please do your own rebuild tests of these packages
[23:33] <cnd> oh, ok
[23:33] <cnd> will do
[23:35] <cjwatson> just feed 'em all through sbuild
[23:36] <cjwatson> or I can do that here if you don't have it set up
[23:37] <cnd> cjwatson, I was going to use bzr bd --builder=pdebuild for most
[23:37] <cnd> pdebuild for mtview, which isn't in bzr
[23:37] <cjwatson> well, sbuild mimics the official builders most accurately, but as you like
[23:37] <cnd> cjwatson, I assume that's good enough?
[23:39] <cjwatson> if you're using pbuilder, though, I'd recommend asking it to build the .dsc files actually in the archive
[23:39] <cnd> ok
[23:40] <infinity> We really need to see about making upgrading pbuilder to just be a tiny translation shim on top of sbuild.
[23:40] <infinity> s/making //
[23:43] <infinity> If we had a One True Way to build packages, I might almost become convinced to revisit making lp-buildd use the distro sbuild a bit sooner.
[23:47] <cjwatson> cnd: utouch-grail, utouch-geis, and mtview all build in current precise, with utouch-frame 2.2.3-0ubuntu1.  Do you want the logs?
[23:48] <cnd> cjwatson, thanks :)
[23:48] <cnd> don't need the logs
[23:48] <cnd> slangasek, infinity: looks like we're ok
[23:48] <cnd> sorry for the trouble :(
[23:48] <cjwatson> that's from .dsc not from bzr
[23:48] <cnd> yeah
[23:49] <infinity> cnd: Alright.  Good enough for me.  Though, don't take this as a "better to ask forgiveness than permission" thing. :P
[23:50] <cnd> infinity, yeah, this was a combo of miscommunication and bad assumptions
[23:51] <cjwatson> infinity: Do you know if nihal's a sad panda?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20120328/+build/3331721 and a slew of other
[23:51] <cjwatson> s
[23:51] <cjwatson> I've given some of them back but left some for debugging
[23:56] <infinity> cjwatson: Damnit.  This has happened before, on more than one machine.  I'm now wondering if there's a moon-phase-related bzip bug on ARM...
[23:56] <infinity> cjwatson: (Basically, it's whining that the already unzipped tar.bz2 is not a valid tar...)
[23:56] <infinity> cjwatson: The quick fix is to get a LOSA to rm -f ~buildd/filecache-default/*
[23:57] <cjwatson> yeah, it's familiar, I had webops monkeyfix it a couple of times myself too
[23:57] <infinity> cjwatson: But it probably needs looking into. :/
[23:57] <penguin42> infinity: Would it not be good to capture the bad uncompressed file to see what's up with it?
[23:57] <cjwatson> does it do any checksum validation on the network transfer?
[23:57] <infinity> penguin42: That may also be valuable, yes.
[23:57] <infinity> cjwatson: Sure, but the corruption is post-transfer, I think.
[23:57] <cjwatson> OK, I didn't know
[23:58] <infinity> cjwatson: unpack-chroot unzips, then re-enters and untars.  The unzipped version is kept in the cache for subsequent runs.
[23:58] <cjwatson> incidentally that caching behaviour could use improvement ...
[23:58] <infinity> cjwatson: The corruption, from a distance, appears to be between unzip and untar (ie: bzip2 doing something naughty)
[23:58] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, the caching and unpacking both are a mess.  I blame Kinnison.
[23:59] <cjwatson> anyway, I need to crash, if somebody else wants to track down a webops, be my guest :)
[23:59] <infinity> cjwatson: But I probably can't blame THIS bug on Kinnison. :P
[23:59] <hloeung> you called?
[23:59] <cjwatson> main build failures on the test rebuild down to 23, counting the stuff already uploaded that I know about but that the index hasn't picked up yet
[23:59] <cjwatson> from 40-something earlier today