[00:27] <Shaba1> Hello is anyone at the keys here
[04:07] <Giacomo> Hello! :D
[04:08] <Giacomo> I need some help on installation. Anyone willing to help?
[04:11] <mn> yeah
[04:25] <Alik> I have done something stupid.
[04:27] <Alik> I don't really know much about xubuntu and I gave a guy who has a broken windows ME machine a copy of xubuntu live disk and I'm trying to figure out how to make it work.. over the phone.. and I don't know much about linux
[04:27] <neur1> anyone know the command for a screenshot?
[04:28] <mn> neur1: there's the shift + Prt Sct (albeit not a command)
[04:29] <mn> Alik: What's the problem
[04:29] <mn> ?
[04:29] <neur1> k i'll tryopenbox/xubuntu
[04:29] <Alik> He says it's sitting on a screen with a "picture of a bird" in the background and nothing else
[04:29] <neur1>  k i'll try
[04:29] <neur1> thx
[04:29] <mn> np
[04:30] <Alik> And his mouse isn't responding
[04:30] <mn> hmm
[04:30] <mn> what version did you give him?
[04:30] <Alik> the latest, I believe.  Same one I installed (gave him the same cd I used).  Uh...
[04:31] <mn> 8.04.1?
[04:31] <Alik> Believe so
[04:31] <Alik> xubuntu-8.04.1-desktop-i386.iso
[04:31] <Alik> Does he need to be connected to the internet for this to work?
[04:32] <mn> shouldn't
[04:32] <mn> need to be
[04:32] <Alik> ok. 'Cause he's not
[04:32] <mn> has he tried to re-boot
[04:32] <mn> ?
[04:33] <Alik> usb mouse
[04:33] <Alik> uh
[04:33] <Alik> I don't think he can reboot unless he hits the power button
[04:33] <Alik> (note:  This guy is worse at computers (in both 'theory' and 'applied' senses) than I am)
[04:34] <mn> hmm, and you installed from this same livecd right?
[04:34] <Alik> Correct
[04:34] <Alik> He said he put the cd in, windows was too fucked to let him run the autorun thing, he rebooted, got to a menu that said "install?" and he said 'yes'
[04:34] <Alik> And then the xubuntu thing appeared, and the bar went across the screen a bunch
[04:34] <mn> yeah that's supposed to happen
[04:35] <mn> he should have put the cd in and shutdown. then pressed the power button to boot from cd
[04:36] <mn> the problem may be that he didn't format his HDD before trying to install
[04:36] <Alik> I believe the installer should let you reformat?
[04:36] <Alik> I installed it over my old windows ME machine
[04:37] <mn> oh, hmm
[04:37] <mn> see if he can boot live
[04:38] <Alik> he killed the power and turned it back on
[04:38] <mn> what's happening?
[04:38] <Alik> he's at a menu.  f1 help, f2 language, f3 keymap, f4 modes, f5 accessibility, f6 other options
[04:39] <Alik> he says it's loading the linux kernal
[04:39] <Alik> xubuntu, bar going across
[04:39] <Alik> bar going back and forth
[04:39] <mn> good
[04:40] <mn> did he choose to install or run live?
[04:40] <Alik> I think he tried to install
[04:40] <Alik> I told him, many times, that he should try to run live in case it didn't work
[04:40] <Alik> But I think he didn't listen
[04:40] <Alik> "bar still going back and forth," he says
[04:41] <Alik> "now the bar is slowly progressing to the right."
[04:41] <mn> good
[04:41] <Alik> I think when I did it, I got to a graphical menu after that where I could choose to install on one partition or the whole HD
[04:42] <mn> that makes since
[04:42] <mn> lemme see
[04:42] <Alik> "screen is blank.." "flashing thing in upper left corner.. little dash.. screen's dark again.."
[04:42] <Alik> "now i got an x and an arrow in the center.. lighter screen... "  -- this would be a lot easier if I was at the machine he was using
[04:43] <mn> yeah
[04:44] <Alik> He can move the mouse now, but at a blank screen
[04:44] <Alik> I suspect his monitor may be damaged (old tube one) because he says he can see 'compaq' still on it
[04:44] <mn> hmm, that may be the case but if he could see all of the other stuff
[04:45] <mn> when i boot live, i get a light screen for a while with a mouse on it.  then my desktop environment loads
[04:46] <mn> you may just have him wait a little bit
[04:46] <mn> (a couple of minutes)
[04:46] <Alik> I'm telling him to adjust the width and height of his monitor so it doesn't wrap around the side or anything
[04:46] <mn> ok that's good
[04:47] <mn> does his computer meet the requirements?
[04:47] <Alik> I believe so
[04:47] <Alik> 256mb ram, 20 gig hard drive
[04:48] <mn> yeah it does
[04:49] <Alik> he says the mouse is no longer moving
[04:49] <mn> did he ever get to the screen to choose to erase the hard disk?
[04:50] <neur1> thx again mn
[04:51] <Alik> no, he did not
[04:52] <mn> and he chose to install, correct?
[04:53] <Alik> that's what he said
[04:53] <Alik> says there's a solid light blue background
[04:53] <mn> ok, then the default background probably has just not loaded yet
[04:54] <mn> does it still have the x thing on it?
[04:54] <Alik> he says there's a celeron somethingorother processor in this machine
[04:55] <mn> intel celeron processor?
[04:55] <Alik> yeah
[04:55] <Alik> says there's a picture of a hard drive all the way left and center that says "hard drive" now
[04:56] <mn> sounds like he's getting to the point to make a partition or overwrite maybe
[04:56] <Alik> he's got the blue arc background now
[04:57] <mn> ok good.  his desktop environment is loading
[04:57] <Alik> meanwhile, I told my machine to update and it's sitting at "running local boot scripts"
[04:58] <Alik> he's got the "file system," "trash," etc stuff now
[04:59] <abarnes> hello
[04:59] <Alik> hi
[04:59] <Alik> should I tell him to just hit that "install" icon, you think?
[04:59] <mn> good
[04:59] <mn> umm
[05:00] <mn> maybe he should format his HDD first
[05:00] <Alik> How could he do that with only this computer and no working OS?
[05:00] <mn> let him know that if he formats and installation fails that windows wont be there
[05:01] <Alik> I told him that this will remove everything on the computer
[05:01] <mn> fdisk command in a xubuntu terminal
[05:01] <Alik> I don't know how to do that, so he certainly doesn't
[05:02] <mn> go to application -> (the first option with an arrow can't remember what that is) -> terminal
[05:03] <Alik> He's having trouble getting the mouse to move at all
[05:04] <mn> it's taxing and lagging him to run live with only 256 MB ram
[05:04] <Alik> apparently
[05:04] <Alik> Worked for me, somehow
[05:05] <Alik> I don't know how to install it via terminal stuff though =/
[05:05] <mn> if he cant get to a terminal like that he can use ctrl + alt + F1
[05:05] <mn> you don't have to
[05:05] <mn> he can format and then install by clicking the icon
[05:06] <Alik> he can't get it to recognize him clicking on the icon.  Will formatting first make that easier, somehow?
[05:06] <mn> no
[05:06] <mn> it may just be lagging
[05:06] <mn> it may do it in a minute
[05:06] <Alik> I assume it would run better if it was from the HD than from the cd
[05:07] <mn> it would
[05:07] <mn> but you have to install to make it run from the hd
[05:07] <Alik> can you install it without the whole live gui stuff?
[05:08] <mn> im sure you can from terminal but idk how
[05:08] <mn> you might just want to try having him boot and choose install
[05:08] <Alik> that's what he did
[05:08] <Alik> I think
[05:09] <Alik> and my phone just died
[05:09] <mn> no he would have had to choose to run live not to bring up installation prompt
[05:09] <mn> well ive gotta go for the night
[05:09] <Alik> maybe I should just go over there and do it for him
[05:09] <mn> there are probably things online
[05:09] <mn> yes
[05:09] <mn> bye
[05:09] <Alik> should my xubuntu machine still be sitting at "running local boot scripts" ?
[05:18] <ere4si> Alik: no - press ctrl-alt=-F2  and login and type startx
[05:19] <ere4si> *ctrl-alt-F2 I meant
[05:20] <Alik> whoops.  I reset the computer and it seems to have booted up okay.  Is anything ruined?
[05:21] <ere4si> if it booted prob not :)
[05:23] <Alik> awesome
[06:53] <bassboi> hey wtf is that button to the left of the titlebar
[06:53] <bassboi> with the circle
[06:55] <ere4si> bassboi: that makes the window appear on all desktops
[06:56] <bassboi> ah ok
[06:56] <bassboi> tyvm sir!
[06:56] <ere4si> :)
[07:30] <generalsnus> ok, what is the best way to mount a new /home folder? i have a ubuntu server where i want to store the users /home on, i tried with NFS but it seems i got some permissions wrong.. bcouse users cant login and create their /home/USER folder
[07:33] <ere4si> generalsnus: I mount nfs to have r/w access like this - <IP_ADDRESS>:/media/movies /server/movies nfs soft,rsize=8192,wsize=8192,timeo=14,intr
[07:34] <CostaRicanQuaker> how do i check which version of xfce i have?
[07:34] <zoredache> generalsnus: are you saying you want to share /home from the server to other workstations?
[07:34] <zoredache> you know nfs isn't really that secure right?
[07:37] <generalsnus> what does "soft,rsize=8192,wsize=8192,timeo=14,intr" mean?
[07:38] <zoredache> the are options... see 'man mount'  they set the time out, probably network buffer sizes, and failure mode
[07:38] <ere4si> generalsnus: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/nfs-server-and-client-configuration-in-ubuntu.html
[07:41] <CostaRicanQuaker> how do i check which version of xfce i have?
[07:42] <ere4si> CostaRicanQuaker: try in a terminal    xfce --version
[08:38] <generalsnus> ok. i have linux users that Authenticate against Active directory.. and their /home/local/DOMAIN/USER folder is created at login.. no problem.  but now i want to Mount another home instead, "myNFSserver/files" so i mount the new share as  /home/local/MYDOMAIN. but it seems i have no RW acces to it..users cant login etc
[08:40] <cody-somerville> generalsnus, You want to mount another home directory while already logged in?
[08:42] <generalsnus> no, hehe
[08:43] <generalsnus> i am mounting /home/local/DOMAIN  .. my root account has his home in /HOME/admin
[08:44] <generalsnus> so it dosent matter.. but i dont know what filepermissions to set..
[09:43] <generalsnus> guys, whenever a new user is created, his /home/user folder has permissions that say that everyone has read access to his folders/files .. how can i make it so nobody has read acces to users files, whenever i create a new one?
[09:44] <generalsnus> i want those files to be readable only for the created user
[09:46] <TheSheep> generalsnus: google for 'umask'
[09:58] <generalsnus> changing the /etc/adduser.conf made the trick
[10:18] <arf`> generalsnus: better to "dpkg-reconfigure -plow adduser"
[10:20] <arf`> and also, probably good to tweak the .bashrc in /etc/skel to put a umask less permissive
[10:26] <generalsnus> ok, i need to add all my users to the group "FUSE" but i dont see the users in "users & groups" because they are all in Active Directory.. i can login with the users and all.. but i need to add them to the fuse group
[10:29] <Xeroa> hi everyone
[10:29] <Xeroa> anyone alive here?
[10:31] <bassboi> what ya need
[10:31] <Xeroa> well, kinda in  pinch here
[10:31] <Myrtti> I'd prefer Cthulhu would eat me now, but yes, I'm alive
[10:32] <Xeroa> we're trying to get a light linux running on a IBM AnyKiosk
[10:32] <Xeroa> its a POS computer
[10:32] <Xeroa> wich has a touchscreen device
[10:33] <Xeroa> well, while running Xubuntu from the cd, got a lot of ShamHFS errors
[10:33] <Xeroa> from experience we can run a fedora 9 on it...considered the fact that we must adapt the Xorg file first before entering in GUI mode (vesa)
[10:35] <Xeroa> well, hopefully he eats you with some good barbecue sauce
[10:35] <Xeroa> ;-)
[10:37] <bassboi> I LOVE U GUYZ
[10:38] <Xeroa> wow....and you hardly know me :-p
[10:38] <Xeroa> well, back to my case....
[10:38] <generalsnus> ok, i need to add all my users to the group "FUSE" but i dont see the users in "users & groups" because they are all in Active Directory.. i can login with the users and all.. but i need to add them to the fuse group
[10:57] <generalsnus> ok i have a xubuntu LTSP server wich authenticate against AD server, i need to add all my users to the group "FUSE" on the linux server but i dont see the users in "users & groups" because they are all in Active Directory.. i can login with the users and all.. but i need to add them to the fuse group.. (allready asked in #windows)
[10:58] <Xeroa> you might try and check into AD where they are at
[10:58] <Xeroa> maybe case sesitive
[10:58] <Xeroa> dont know actually, kinda a noob myself :-p
[11:05] <Woo> If I remove the GPU from the PC, will it still start as usual?
[11:06] <Woo> Because I only remote control that PC anyway.
[11:07] <Xeroa> normally yes...but be careful for errors in your Xorg.conf file as a result of that
[11:08] <Woo> So it might cause damage if I remove it, boot, then put it back in?
[11:08] <Woo> put it back in after shutting down that is
[11:09] <Xeroa> well..normally it should just give you errors saying that he cannot find the screen specified in his Xorg fild
[11:09] <Xeroa> but it should boot
[11:10] <Xeroa> you can always try to boot in init 3 mode
[11:10] <Woo> I don't know hwat that means
[11:10] <Xeroa> well i'm no linux expert...should ask someone more guru'is
[11:10] <Xeroa> well, linux starts up in different phases
[11:15] <wols_> Woo: yes it will
[11:16] <wols_> however you must make sure to run a sshd or such of course
[11:16] <wols_> when you make a system headless, you usually don't have a displaymanager installed or started
[11:18] <Woo> No it's been running with a GPU for months, but I only have one PCI-E card, and just one PCI
[11:18] <Woo> so I need to move the PCI card from that PC to another project
[11:23] <wols_> you said "remove the gpu" which means for me "run headless". you dindn't say anything about using 2 gpus right now
[11:25] <Woo> No, it will be headless indeed
[11:30] <qwerty121> hello all. i have nevr used xubuntu. does xubuntu support gtk themes?
[11:31] <Myrtti> yes
[11:31]  * qwerty121 is surprised to see Myrtti in this channel
[11:32] <Myrtti> oh?
[12:35] <leny2010> The mac/gb keyboard variant isn't set up quite right. Where do I edit the keyboard definitions both for X xubuntu 8.04 and the text console keyboard?
[12:37] <generalsnus> ok i have a xubuntu LTSP server wich authenticate against AD server, i need to add all my users to the group "FUSE" on the linux server but i dont see the users in "users & groups" because they are all in Active Directory.. i can login with the users and all.. but i need to add them to the fuse group.. (allready asked in #windows)
[13:05] <Woo> actually i don't know what i was thinking
[13:05] <Woo> the new computer will have four GPUs, and I thought I needed to move an ancient PCI card just to have something to display while I install etc
[13:09] <Woo> what do you guys reckon, is it a possibility the OS crashed after running for about a day, or a new (old) psu?
[16:26] <Quest_> any replacement for "knemo" . it shows live network trafic chart/graph ... ?
[16:27] <cody-somerville> all kinds
[16:30] <Quest_> any replacement for "knemo" . it shows "live" network trafic "gui" chart/graph ... ?
[16:32] <cody-somerville> Yes... theres all kinds.
[17:26] <sdubois92> has anyone had trouble copying files from CDs
[17:26] <sdubois92> mine hangs once it gets to a certain file
[17:26] <sdubois92> and freezes up thunar
[17:27] <zoredache> if it always breaks on a certain file perhaps the cd is bad/dirty?
[20:11] <Feren6> I'm trying to setup a streaming webcam with ffserver, but it keeps saying
[20:11] <Feren6> Unknown device
[20:11] <Feren6> But the device is detected by my computer...any ideas?
[20:12] <favro> !webcam
[20:12] <Feren6> Sorry, "/dev/video0: Unknown format
[20:12] <Feren6> "
[20:13] <Feren6> My webcam works, I'm jsut trying to get it to stream through ffserver..which I can't seem to do
[20:14] <favro> k - don't know about ffserver - sorry :)
[20:15] <Feren6> :( I've been trying tutorials ( i could only find 2) but none of them worked
[20:15] <zoredache> perhaps try and find a mail list/irc channel devoted to ffserver?
[20:16] <Feren6> Yeah
[20:16] <Feren6> Thanks
[20:16] <Feren6> I'll look around
[20:17] <Feren6> I think I just have to try and find the format that my webcam is outputting to
[20:17] <Feren6> Is there a command to look at information for a device?
[20:18] <Bytor4232> hm.  I don't use webcams.  I have one, a logitec usb camera, but I never use it.  I use it for the built in mic, which is superb.  The mic on my laptop is crap.
[20:19] <Feren6> Yeah..i'm using a logitech usb as well, but I can't remember what model it is....is there a command to check the information of the device in the console?
[20:19] <TheSheep> lsus or lshw
[20:19] <TheSheep> lsusb
[20:20] <Feren6> ok
[20:20] <Feren6> Thanks
[20:21] <zhobbs_> what is the min specs for ram/cpu for xubuntu?
[20:22] <Feren6> No idea......it's probably on the main website
[20:22] <zoredache> for livecd based install you need 192mb of ram...  The cpu is less important, but I don't think it would be pleasent on something less then  400mhz
[20:22] <cody-somerville> 333mhz and 192mb of ram
[20:22]  * cody-somerville nods at zoredache.
[20:23] <zhobbs_> thanks
[20:29] <Bytor4232> zhobbs_: I think the alternate installer, which I'm a big fan of, installs on much less.
[20:29] <Bytor4232> "To run the Desktop CD (LiveCD + Install CD), you need 128 MB RAM to run or 192 MB RAM to install. The Alternate Install CD only requires you to have 64 MB RAM."
[20:30] <cody-somerville> Bytor4232, thats not because less is installed afterwards
[20:31] <cody-somerville> but because the live cd itself (for it to be running, an entire OS from your memory) has memory requirements
[20:31] <Bytor4232> cody-somerville: Ah.  Whats the bare minimum to run Xubuntu post install?
[20:31] <Bytor4232> 128 MB?
[20:31] <cody-somerville> Depends on what you can tolerate
[20:32] <TheSheep> Bytor4232: it will theoretically run even on 16MB ram, although nobody lived long enough to see it finishes booting ;)
[20:33] <Bytor4232> Even on older machines, ram has never been a problem.  PC100 was dirt cheap at one point.
[20:33] <zhobbs_> Bytor4232: oh thanks, I'll check that out
[20:34] <Bytor4232> zhobbs_: Keep in mind, the alternate installer is not graphical.  Its a text based installer, it may take a little getting used to.  Its user friendly enough thou.
[22:13] <mlester> is anyone active at teh moment
[22:14] <cody-somerville> Yup
[22:15] <mlester> well I am having an interesting issue with a static ip address
[22:15] <mlester> I have a vm of hardy-server with bridge networking
[22:15] <mlester> and that vm can access the host computer and other vm hosted on that computer
[22:15] <mlester> but no other computers
[22:16] <mlester> but other computers can ping it
[22:28] <zoredache> mlester: that sounds unusual... was this new vm or one that got cloned?
[22:28] <zoredache> are you sure your static is unique on the network?
[22:28] <mlester> its cloned
[22:28] <mlester> and yeah the ip is static
[22:28] <zoredache> did you copy a vm and forget to allow it to generate a new mac address?
[22:29] <mlester> I think I told it to keep the old one
[22:29] <mlester> but I got it to successfully ping google
[22:29] <mlester> my resolv.conf was improperly configured
[22:29] <zoredache> ah
[22:29] <mlester> but I am just trying to resolv my original problem
[22:29] <mlester> which is not being able to apt-get update
[22:30] <mlester> which I thought trying a static ip might fixed the problem
[22:30] <mlester> which it did not
[22:31] <zoredache> can you ping us.archive.ubuntu.com
[22:33] <mlester> yes sir
[22:34] <zoredache> and you can't get updates?  what exactly is the error you are getting?  (maybe pastebin it?)
[22:35] <mlester> Method http has died unexpectedly!
[22:35] <mlester> but occasionally it failes do to not having the right gpg key or something like that
[22:37] <zoredache> maybe try a 'telnet us.archive.ubuntu.com 80'
[22:37] <zoredache> if you see 'Connected' respond with 'get /'
[22:38] <zoredache> also, did you configure a proxy at some point in time?
[22:38] <mlester> I didn't configure a proxy and when I try the get thing I get Method not Implemented
[22:39] <zoredache> that is what you should get...  so your computer can reach the repositories, and you can estabilish a tcp connection....
[22:40] <zoredache> hrm...
[22:40] <mlester> yeah I been going crazy trying to figure this out
[22:41] <mlester> and whats wierder is that I have another ubuntu vm and it can apt-get update
[22:43] <zoredache> are you aware of any transparent proxies between you and the internet?  Perhaps you have squidguard in the path and it is trying to redirect you or something?
[22:43] <mlester> no I don't have squidguard installed on any of my computers including the router
[22:46] <zoredache> so back to the earlier question when you said you cloned the vm.  Is the original on your network and turned on?
[22:47] <mlester> nah I never had the original
[22:47] <mlester> I downloaded this vm from the web
[22:48] <mlester> Its a box with vulnerable services on it that I wanted to play around with
[22:48] <zoredache> but do you have multiple copies of it turned on...
[22:48] <mlester> nope
[22:48] <zoredache> hrm...
[22:49] <zoredache> have you setup firewall, or checked to see if there are any firewall rules?
[22:50] <mlester> yeah there were none in iptables
[22:53] <zoredache> you might need to install wireshark on the vm host and see if you can see what is going on perhaps
[22:55] <mlester> what should I look for
[22:55] <mlester> I have it installed already
[22:56] <zoredache> hrm... that is the tricky part..
[22:57] <zoredache> apt usually works over http...  You said you had another ubuntu vm.  I suspect I would start by doing a capture of a good 'apt-get update', then compare with the bad one
[22:58] <mlester> ok I try and figure out how to do that
[22:59] <zoredache> what is special about the vm?  if it is being too much of a pain you could always just build a new one?
[23:00] <mlester> naw it has custom services on there
[23:00] <mlester> not created by me
[23:05] <mlester> looks like its looking for a translation that doesnt exist
[23:31] <mlester> hey do u think openvpn could be causing the issue
[23:32] <mlester> I am looking at that startup apps and its in there


[02:35] <taihsiang> henrix,  I am testing proposed kernels for certification this cycle. there is no lucid kernel update, isn't it? thanks.
[04:51] <infinity> taihsiang: No lucid this cycle, no.  You can get the full overview here: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
[06:18] <taihsiang> infinity, thanks, got it.
[14:36] <exebat> Hi all
[14:37] <exebat> I have a problem with Ubuntu 14.04 USB devices not being available on boot until repluged
[14:39] <exebat> What might I do to fix it ? It worked just fine on 12.04
[14:43] <apw> exebat, the normal thing is to check for dmesg errors, if there are osme then there may be hope of figureing it out from those, so you'd file a bug against linux after the failed boot
[14:45] <smoser> hey. random curious thing...
[14:45] <apw> exebat, if there is no obvious clue then it becomes a hunt for when it stopped working, a bisect as it were, and for that we normally suggest again filing a bug against linux and somene can help talk you through the how of it
[14:45] <smoser> is there any way to query "how long has hardware been up" or "when was hardware turned on".
[14:45] <apw> exebat, either way a bug is needed, file using "ubuntu-bug linux"
[14:45] <smoser> i'm aware of issues with clock changing, so that 'date' wouldnt be always relevant, but just curious.
[14:46] <apw> isn't that uptime ?
[14:46] <smoser> /proc/uptime tells me when kernel started running
[14:46] <smoser> which is after bios + after grub + after grub loaded kernel and initramfs ..
[14:46] <smoser> which is ages :)
[14:46] <apw> efi does give you some information
[14:46] <apw> if you have efi then systemd-analyse gives you some breakdown before kernel
[14:47] <smoser> hm.
[14:48] <apw> not that i have a clue how it gets that information
[14:48] <apw> other than it is efi informaiton
[14:49] <smoser> dont have thta on the 2 systems i'm looking at (which are not efi :)
[14:49] <smoser> but that is really nice. i didn't know about that.
[14:49] <shirgall> I was tihnking it was in dmidecode somewhere, but I didn't find it. :/
[14:50] <smoser> yeah, well, dmi data is notterribly consistent in my experience
[14:51] <shirgall> Aye
[14:51] <smoser> but yeah, i kind of thought it might be there too
[14:52] <shirgall> 'facter' tells a lot, but only the OS uptime.
[17:28] <bjf> stgraber, i'm still getting the failure in lxc-test-apparmor. is that correct?
[17:29] <bjf> stgraber, that's for vivid
[17:36] <stgraber> bjf: yep
[17:37] <stgraber> bjf: hallyn pushed a fix to cgmanager which unblocked lxcfs and some other test failures for LXC, but the apparmor testcase still hangs or fail, it's next up on the list
[17:37] <bjf> stgraber, ok, thanks for the info
[20:47] <studio_> hi
[20:47] <studio_> anybody here?


[00:00] <wgrant> It's too easy for a factory bug or change to invalidate the test otherwise.
[00:00] <thomi> right
[00:03] <thomi> wgrant: new diff ready...
[00:04] <thomi> I guess I got the zcml stuff correct? I wasn't really sure about that...
[00:04] <wgrant> Yep, that's right.
[00:06] <thomi> is securedutility something launchpad specific? I couldn't find it in http://docs.zope.org/zope.component/zcml.html
[00:09] <wgrant> Yes, that's one of ours.
[00:10] <wgrant> See SecuredUtilityDirective in lp.services.webapp.metazcml
[00:10] <wgrant> But in general you shouldn't have to care about the details.
[00:15] <thomi> ok.. blindly copy + paste. check :D
[00:17] <blr> wgrant: regarding the ugly list comprehension, were you suggesting it would be better to return a dict of dicts, rather than the list of ref dicts?
[00:20] <wgrant> blr: Right, a list of dicts with a unique "name" field feels like it should be a dict.
[00:21] <wgrant> (though that becomes more questionable if we ever batch that endpoint, that'll be an API break for other reasons anyway)
[00:21] <blr> wgrant: yep, that would be better. Also, prepending 'refs/' will still be necessary in the view, but you're entirely right that it shouldn't in store.
[00:21] <wgrant> Right, the view presumably keys on refs/, so it doesn't get that part of the path.
[00:21] <blr> wgrant: well, when we need to address paging we can revisit it
[00:21] <wgrant> Yep.
[00:22] <blr> thanks
[00:33] <wgrant> thomi: Approved with a couple of trivial fixes.
[00:33]  * thomi looks
[00:33] <wgrant> thomi: Can you file an RT ticket to get your OpenPGP key added to the PQM keyring, so you can land things yourself?
[00:33] <wgrant> Mail it to launchpad@ and I'll approve it.
[00:34] <thomi> wgrant: I file the rt by emailing<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[00:34] <wgrant> yep
[00:36] <thomi> wgrant: filed
[00:38] <wgrant> Got it, thanks.
[00:41] <thomi> wgrant: OK, I made those changes. Should to top-approve that MP, or would you like to look at it again?
[00:41] <thomi> I guess the PQM keyring won't get updated today
[00:46] <wgrant> thomi: Top-approval doesn't do anything special for us today, as we don't use Tarmac. But I tend to use it as if we did.
[00:46] <wgrant> Looks fine to me. I'll land it unless you have objections to your own branch.
[00:46] <thomi> no objections here :D
[00:46] <wgrant> Good, I'd be worried.
[00:47] <thomi> heh
[01:17] <thomi> wgrant: I have another MP for you... the docs for zope_isinstance are rather lacking, so I'm not convinced that it's this easy... but the function is reasonably well tested, and the tests all pass, so... : https://code.launchpad.net/~thomir/launchpad/devel-fix-import-violations-buildfarmjob/+merge/251397
[01:19] <wgrant> thomi: zope_isinstance is just an isinstance that looks through security proxies.
[01:19] <wgrant> Do the tests pass? I think that change is incorrect.
[01:19] <wgrant> The structure here is a little bit confusing.
[01:19] <thomi> wgrant: the tests pass
[01:20] <wgrant> Odd
[01:20] <thomi> I'm running lp.soyuz.browser.tests.test_builder_views.TestgetSpecificJobs
[01:20] <thomi> wgrant: I'm not sure what the word 'specific' means in that docstring
[01:20] <wgrant> thomi: What about test_builder_views as a whole?
[01:21] <wgrant> thomi: There are four types of build farm jobs. IBinaryPackageBuild, ISourcePackageRecipeBuild, ITranslationTemplatesBuild and ILiveFSBuild are all derivatives of IBuildFarmJob.
[01:21] <wgrant> But, crucially, they are *specific* jobs.
[01:22] <wgrant> They each have their own table named after them, and the data is primarily stored there.
[01:22] <thomi> wgrant: I'm running those tests now
[01:22] <wgrant> But each specific job also references a non-specific row in the BuildFarmJob table, which is used for builder histories etc. that show all job types.
[01:22] <thomi> I'm still not sure what specific means in that context.
[01:22] <thomi> wgrant: those tests all pass as well :D
[01:22] <blr> wgrant: just as a wee experiment, all of the refs in the linux git repo, serialized are 9.6k
[01:22] <wgrant> BuildFarmJob is effectively an abstract base class.
[01:22] <wgrant> Except it happens to actually exist for DB reasons.
[01:24] <wgrant> thomi: So, the BuildFarmJob class is this non-specific DB table, which needs to be resolved to a concrete specific job for display. But IBuildFarmJob is implemented by both specific and non-specific classes, so your check changes the behaviour.
[01:24] <wgrant> I was hoping a test would fail to prove that, but to preserve the behaviour you can check against IBuildFarmJobDB instead.
[01:24] <wgrant> Only BuildFarmJob itself implements IBuildFarmJobDB.
[01:24] <wgrant> (BuildFarmJob should probably be renamed to BuildFarmJobDB, but historical reasons)
[01:25] <wgrant> Specific jobs have a non-specific BuildFarmJob.
[01:25] <wgrant> Specific and non-specific jobs implement IBuildFarmJob.
[01:25] <wgrant> Only non-specific jobs implement IBuildFarmJobDB.
[01:26] <thomi> so... that check should be 'IBuildFarmJob.providedBy(job) and not IBuildFarmJobDB.providedBy(job)' ?
[01:26] <wgrant> zope_isinstance(job, BuildFarmJob) is only true for a non-specific job.
[01:27] <wgrant> So I think it can be replaced with just "IBuildFarmJobDB.provideBy(job)"
[01:27] <thomi> oh, right.
[01:28] <thomi> hmmmm, I'll add a test for that failure case as well
[01:28] <wgrant> This code and schema has been through three or four serious redesigns over the years, so the tests may well be dodgy.
[01:29] <thomi> yeah... some of these could be better named
[01:29]  * thomi gets out his yak razor
[01:29] <wgrant> But basically the method is designed to take an arbitrary combination of non-specific and specific jobs, and turn them all into specific jobs.
[01:29] <wgrant> Obviously for a specific job that transformation is a no-op.
[01:30] <wgrant> It may be that the tests work because the non-specific and specific IDs match, which will happen if you only use one kind of job.
[01:35] <wgrant> blr: We'll need to handle non-ASCII refs soon, but that can be a subsequent iteration.
[01:37] <blr> wgrant: ugh, right.
[01:41] <blr> I think #git exists primarily to slag off other dvcses, sadly.
[01:42] <wgrant> Well, what else are they going to talk about? How good git's UI is? :)
[01:44] <blr> wgrant: noooo... don't do it.
[01:49] <xnox> they are quite helpful with git intrisics support.
[02:06] <wgrant> Evening xnox.
[02:18] <thomi> wgrant: if you have a moment: https://code.launchpad.net/~thomir/launchpad/devel-fix-import-violations-buildfarmjob/+merge/251397
[02:19] <wgrant> thomi: Done.
[02:19] <thomi> wgrant: I was tempted to rewrite that function, as I think i could be a lot clearer, but decided not to.
[02:20] <thomi> thanks... down to 5 violations now :D
[02:20] <wgrant> thomi: You should feel free to rewrite things when it makes sense to. A lot of this code is old and things have evolved around it.
[02:21] <thomi> yeah... it would have been an aesthetic change only, and the tests aren't the best, so I figured it was best to leave it alone :D
[02:21] <wgrant> Indeed.
[02:22] <wgrant> thomi: Oh, I was about to land it for you, but blahdeblah has added you to the keyring.
[02:22] <thomi> oh!
[02:22] <wgrant> thomi: 'bzr lp-land --no-qa' in the branch directory should do what you want.
[02:22] <wgrant> Run it from your host, not inside the container, for keyring access.
[02:22] <thomi> oh, well that's easy then
[02:22] <wgrant> You may need to grab bzr-pqm from the PPA, though.
[02:23] <wgrant> And you'll need SMTP server config.
[02:23] <thomi> the container has access to gpg keyring too...
[02:23] <thomi> oh.. smtp thing will be "fun"
[02:23] <wgrant> thomi: It needs launchpadlib keys too.
[02:23] <wgrant> Which are in your gnome-keyring.
[02:25] <wgrant> thomi: https://pastebin.canonical.com/126638/ has a superset of the relevant settings from my bzr configs.
[02:26] <thomi> how come no bzr-pqm package in utopic, but exists in saucy?
[02:26] <wgrant> thomi: Because bzr and LP are probably the only two projects in the world that still use PQM.
[02:26] <thomi> oh ok
[02:26] <wgrant> The saucy package should work, though.
[02:27] <thomi> the package in ppa:launchpad/ppa should as well I guess
[02:28] <wgrant> Ah yes, I copied that up, didn't I.
[02:35]  * wgrant lunches.
[02:58] <wgrant> thomi: Looks like you got lp-land working?
[02:58] <thomi> wgrant: maybe? The branch is still 'approved'
[02:58] <wgrant> (also, you don't actually need to top-approve at all; lp-land will be happy as long as it has valid reviews)
[02:58] <wgrant> thomi: Heh, check your email.
[02:58] <thomi> oh, right
[02:58] <wgrant> You set from Merged to Approved, I guess you raced with the scanner.
[02:58] <thomi> I was about 10 seconds too early :D
[02:58] <thomi> ahh
[02:59] <thomi> wgrant: I wanted to ask you about the final few import violations
[02:59] <thomi> they're (almost) all where we're using load_related for (I think) database efficiency
[02:59] <wgrant> Yup, that's what I thought they'd mostly be.
[03:00] <wgrant> That's usually done with a DecoratedResultSet using pre_iter_hook.
[03:00] <wgrant> Many methods in the model take an eager_load option, or a number of need_WHATEVER options to enable preloading of certain related objects.
[03:01] <wgrant> Or some other sets have a preloadForWhatever method.
[03:01] <thomi> I'm not sure what the fix is for that - just move the code into a SomethingSet ?
[03:01] <thomi> for example, lp.soyuz.browser.archivesubscription line 334 (or thereabouts)
[03:03] <wgrant> thomi: I'd fix getBySubscriberWithActiveToken. Depending on how many places it's used, you might just be able to push the load_related down into there without needing to make it optional.
[03:03] <wgrant> Loading a handful of archives is relatively cheap, so it's not terrible to do it where it's not necessary.
[03:03] <wgrant> But other types of preloading definitely want to be up to the caller to enable.
[03:09] <thomi> hmmm
[03:09] <wgrant> Do you understand what all the preloading code is for?
[03:10] <wgrant> It's to prevent the ORM from issuing a bazillion queries when accessing objects related to sets of other objects.
[03:11] <wgrant> Each ArchiveSubscription obviously has a related Archive, and naive code looping through some subscriptions would issue a separate query for each subscription's Archive.
[03:11] <wgrant> This is not good for performance.
[03:11] <wgrant> load_related collects the IDs and does a single query for them all, to get them into Storm's cache cheaply.
[03:11] <thomi> somehwat unrelated, but presumably it'd only load the archive details when you accessed that part of the subscription object, right?
[03:12] <wgrant> Right, code like "subscription.archive" pulls it in.
[03:12] <wgrant> But it checks in Storm's cache (keyed on (class, primary key)) before making the query, which is why load_related prevents the extra query.
[03:13] <thomi> ok.. I think I just need to get my head around how this code gets moved around
[03:13] <wgrant> You can probably just literally move the load_related call into getBySubscriberWithActiveToken, except that security proxies may ruin your day.
[03:14] <thomi> so getBySubscriberWithActiveToken would include the load_related call and throw away the result? I mean, it'd still be in the storm cache
[03:14] <thomi> oh, except we use the result from load_related, but I guess if it's in the cache already we can look it up again and it should be cheap?
[03:19] <wgrant> thomi: afk, but yes. once it's loaded the view can just loop through the subscriptions and get the archive out
[03:19] <thomi> awesome. There are some other things I can change in here as well.
[03:20] <wgrant> yep, clean away
[03:31] <thomi> my brain is melting
[03:31] <wgrant> :(
[03:33] <thomi> ugh. given that it's EOD for me, and I turn into a CI-team pumpkin tomorrow, I might back away sloooowly from this one :D
[03:49] <wgrant> thomi: heh, no worries. you got a couple of good branches landed today :)
[04:14] <thomi> yeah
[04:17] <thomi> wgrant: Does http://lpqateam.canonical.com/qa-reports/deployment-stable.html limit the number of grey revisions? I expected to see two of mine at the bottom of the list, but I only see one...
[04:17] <StevenK> qastaging may not have updated
[04:17] <StevenK> Check what rev is running on qas
[04:20] <thomi> StevenK: doh - thanks, that should have been obvious :-/
[04:20] <StevenK> thomi: devpad has a log of what qas is doing, but I suspect WADL'ing
[04:21] <thomi> devpad.canonical.com gives me an empty directory listing :D
[04:23] <StevenK> thomi: Via ssh
[04:23] <thomi> oh, gotchya
[04:24] <StevenK> Somewhere under /srv
[04:24] <thomi> anyway, it's EOD for me, I'll care about it tomorrow if I have to :D
[07:11] <blr> wgrant_: api-refs branch ready for re-review when you have a moment.
[11:47] <cjwatson> wgrant: Oh, um, could you have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/turnip/pastescript/+merge/251303 ?  I just realised that I merged https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/charms/trusty/turnip/api-server/+merge/251305 too early.
[11:47] <cjwatson> sigh Mondays
[11:48] <wgrant> cjwatson: You should totally have self-reviewed that, but done.
[11:48] <cjwatson> Fair enough
[11:48] <cjwatson> Ta
[15:30] <sil2100> Hey!
[15:31] <sil2100> I'm experiencing some strange problems, I don't seem to be able to subscribe the 'landing-team-trackers' team to bug LP: #1425737
[15:31] <mup> Bug #1425737: Wizard freezes on blank screen after language <vivid> <vivid-stab-candidate> <libqofono (Ubuntu):New> <ofono (Ubuntu):New> <unity8 (Ubuntu):New for mterry> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425737>
[15:31] <sil2100> ...aaaand nevermind!
[15:32] <sil2100> Scratch  that, it seems to have been some temprorary issue
[15:32] <sil2100> I was worried since refreshing didn't help and I tried like 5 times
[15:32] <sil2100> But now it's working again ;)
[17:39] <thomi> morning
[17:53] <cjwatson> Hi
[17:54] <cjwatson> I was wondering if we could have our team meeting today again this week, but neglected to ask people in my morning ...
[17:54]  * cjwatson grumbles at complex and not-entirely-predictable personal life conflicts but that's evening meetings for you
[17:54] <thomi> cjwatson: well I'm officially a CI person this week, so don't mind me :D
[17:55] <cjwatson> Aha
[17:55] <cjwatson> Splitter
[17:55] <thomi> and I doubt blr is up yet
[17:55] <thomi> yeah
[18:04] <cjwatson> I've spent half the day fighting (successfully, eventually) with juju, and the other half writing LP git xmlrpc tests
[18:05] <thomi> "xmlrpc" - that's a technology I haven't heard in a long time :D
[18:06] <thomi> ...reminds me of automating chyron devices
[18:08] <cjwatson> Yeah, well, we don't use it for talking from LP to turnip, but when talking from turnip to LP it's a lot easier than inventing a new endpoint stack
[18:08] <thomi> ahh, right
[18:09] <cjwatson> (Because we already have a private XML-RPC port that's used by several privileged services)
[22:46] <wgrant> cjwatson, blr: Today works for me.
[22:50] <blr> morning wgrant :)
[22:50] <blr> missing context, but I'm guessing that was our HO today rather than tomorrow?
[22:52] <wgrant> blr: Right, Colin suggested it.
[22:52] <wgrant> Though he may be gone now.
[22:55] <blr> sure, I'm easy
[22:59] <cjwatson> Here
[22:59] <wgrant> Aha, good morning.
[22:59] <cjwatson> Was just getting a bit of relaxing reading in beforehand
[23:01] <blr> cjwatson: oh?
[23:03] <cjwatson> "Spin State", Chris Moriarty


[00:03] <Gon> I have a friend who need to add a IPP printer, but he can't found the GUI ...
[00:03] <Gon> system-config-printer-kde is loaded ween I plug a usb-printer
[00:03] <Gon> when*
[00:38] <JontheEchidna> ~seen a|wen
[00:38] <kubotu> a|wen was last seen 1 month, 9 days, 2 hours, 9 minutes and 24 seconds ago, quitting IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) and a moment before saying "good luck with the packaging ... i expect you to have the beta done, when i look in again next time :)"
[00:38] <JontheEchidna> eek
[00:38] <JontheEchidna> oh, the quit message explains taht
[00:39] <JontheEchidna> Also explains why the kile updates stopped last month :D
[00:47] <vorian> a|wen :'(
[00:48] <vorian> ~seen obama
[00:48] <kubotu> nope!
[00:48] <vorian> me either
[01:13] <ryanakca> seele: Should I place the wiki's editbar at the top of the page or under the breadcrumb, with a "Show editing options" link on the same line as the breadcrumb, but far right? Nice thing about having an editbar above the page contents is that you don't have to look for it in the page, shezam, it's right there for you....
[01:14] <ryanakca> (The question is open for all to answer, please give me input on what we want the wiki theme to be like)
[01:24] <nhandler> ryanakca: What exactly is the "breadcrumb"?
[01:35] <ryanakca> nhandler: You are here: Foo >> Bar >> Baz
[01:36] <nhandler> ryanakca: Ah, one of the bars I filed a bug about ;)
[01:37] <ryanakca> nhandler: Aye. To see it at the top, see http://wiki.ryanak.ca/kubuntu/ ... you'll need to login
[01:38] <nhandler> I personally think a link on the same line as the breadcrumb on the far right would be too small and out of the way to be useful
[01:38] <ryanakca> It was for bug 390253... that fix there also fixes 389722...
[01:38] <ryanakca> bug 389722
[01:38] <ryanakca> bug 389772
[01:38] <nhandler> I like having it at the top/bottom of the page because it is very easy to get there when you need to edit a wiki page
[01:39] <ryanakca> My opinion as well. OK, I'll commit, mark them as fix commited and move on :)
[01:40] <lex79> JontheEchidna: don't forget launchpad bug 390069 :P
[01:40] <nhandler> ryanakca: It does cover up the search box a little. Not sure if that matters though
[01:41] <nhandler> It also would be useful to have some way to always have the edit options at the top showing (a preference)
[01:41] <ryanakca> nhandler: I can always move the content block down a tad... as for always on, I'm not sure... I can set it to always be on by default... but we'd probably have to have a vote and see what everybody's preference is if we set a default that affects everybody
[01:43] <nhandler> ryanakca: I don't think having it always on would be a good default, but a preference would be awesome (if possible)
[01:44] <ryanakca> nhandler: I'll find out
[01:53] <ryanakca> nhandler: As for bug 389955, can we really expect people to be using the Kubuntu theme on the Ubuntu wiki? I could fix it, but it would require javascript which a) the sysadmins would probably rather I avoid, and b) would fail on browsers that don't support javascript
[01:56] <nhandler> ryanakca: I would expect a fair number of Kubuntu theme users to use wiki.ubuntu.com since a lot of links point there. However, if a good solution doesn't exist, I don't think it is pressing that the bug be fixed now
[02:09] <ryanakca> nhandler: Hmmm... now that I think of it, the current implementation for having the editbar at the top fails if users are in graphical browsers (works fine in text browsers, w3m, etc) without js... because I'm hiding the bar off the screen, 4000px to the left, and sliding it in when it's wanted. But I can't slide it in / out without JS...
[02:10] <lex79> Riddell: launchpad bug 391426
[02:10] <ryanakca> nhandler: Therefore, should I place it at the very bottom of a page and slide it up to the top of the window when it's wanted? Or do you think the distance between Show editing options in the top left corner of your window and having the edit bar at the very bottom of the page would cause confusion / seperate the two?
[02:11] <JontheEchidna> lex79: lol, another new qtcurve? upstream is way too fast
[02:13] <lex79> yes, too fast :)
[02:14] <JontheEchidna> for MIR reports they ask how active upstream is: "dead", "calm", "vigorous", "frentic"
[02:14] <lex79> I'm trying qtcurve style and is very nice but oxygen is oxygen :)
[02:14] <JontheEchidna> they need a new one: "like the QtCurve dudes"
[02:18] <nhandler> ryanakca: Would it be possible to check if javascript is enabled and to fall back to the old style if it isn't?
[02:22] <ryanakca> nhandler: Ummm... quick google says no, not without something serverside... which for us, means no.
[02:45] <ryanakca> nhandler: hmmm... setting the bar to the bottom of the page and then calling it up reintroduces bug 389772 ... so I guess that since NetSurf and dillo are the only two graphical web browsers (excluding Mosaic, etc. from the 90s) that don't support javascript, I'll stick to the javascript support for the bar... text browsers, even though most don't support javascript, are unaffected.
[02:46] <nhandler> ryanakca: If we are using javascript for the bar, is there a reason not to use it to differentiate between wiki.ubuntu.com and wiki.kubuntu.org for bug 389955
[02:47] <ryanakca> nhandler: Nope. It can be done... It just isn't high on my priority list :)
[02:48] <nhandler> No problem. You got the ToC bug fixed, which was the most annoying one ;)
[02:49] <ryanakca> nhandler: Well, almost fixed... it's only commited... I'm going to fix as many bugs as I can before starting the eternal process of prodding sysadmins...
[02:50] <nhandler> ryanakca: Did we see if any of these bugs are valid in ubuntunew?
[02:50] <ryanakca> nhandler: Nope, feel free to check for them though and file against the ubuntu-website project...
[02:54] <nhandler> ryanakca: I'll look tomorrow. I need to prep for a Packaging Training session now ;)
[02:54] <ryanakca> nhandler: OK
[03:04] <e-jat> nixternal: +1 from me about the new kernel :)
[06:45] <shadeslayer> would someone give me their opinions on bug 391481
[09:25] <freinhard> launchpad doesn't support git repos yet?
[09:28] <Seli> hello, I'd need help with packaging - I have a tarball with wrong layout, and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete says it's not a reason to redo the tarball, but it actually doesn't say how to fix it - can somebody tell me?
[09:32] <freinhard> Riddell: seems like plasma-widget-network-mamanger-dbgsys still can't live with plasma-widget-network-mamanger
[09:45] <freinhard> Seli: debian/source/format
[09:49] <Seli> freinhard: could you be a bit more specific? I don't see anything about that in the guide
[09:57] <freinhard> Seli: see man dpkg-source
[09:58] <Seli> freinhard: I already have, but I still don't see how that helps me
[09:59] <Seli> what I want is basically just rpm's "%setup -c", since the tarball misses one directory level
[10:00] <Seli> or, put differently, I want to package the tarball contents, but the buildsystem adds additional mess to the extracted data
[10:11] <freinhard> Seli: tried to clean it up with a rule in rules?
[10:13] <Seli> no, why should I? I somehow expected turning tarball contents into a _all.deb package wouldn't be a rocket science
[10:23] <Seli> not to mention if I clean up debian/ it will presumably stop working very quickly
[11:14] <DreadKnight> ffs... latest updates screwed up my install
[11:14] <DreadKnight> intel gma 945 user..
[11:15] <DreadKnight> i don't know how to fix it...
[11:15] <DreadKnight> how would i go for booting another kernel?
[11:16] <DreadKnight> if i still have an older one.
[11:18] <freinhard> DreadKnight: put Driver "intel" in your xorg.conf
[11:18] <DreadKnight> i managed with another kernel
[11:18] <DreadKnight> or not hmm
[11:19] <freinhard> DreadKnight: doesn't boot? adding acpi=off to the kernel boot params did it for me
[11:19] <DreadKnight> i managed to boot using another kernel so far
[11:19] <freinhard> -8 works -10 doesn't
[11:19] <DreadKnight> i get the login screen, but not able to log in...
[11:20] <DreadKnight> i'm into -11 atm.. lol
[11:23] <freinhard> where did you get that one from?
[11:23] <DreadKnight> latest updates..
[11:23] <DreadKnight> -9 is fail as well .. even -8
[11:24] <DreadKnight> i just can't log in for some reason
[11:24] <DreadKnight>  get an x session, but x crashes or something when loging in... and i get the login screen again...
[11:24] <DreadKnight> fail
[11:32] <DreadKnight> i could log in with -7, but video acceleration is a total joke
[11:33] <DreadKnight> nixternal blogged about this.. then deleted post or something.. meh
[11:55] <neversfelde> is 4.3 rc already tagged and if, can I help with packaging?
[12:33] <sygma1982> halihoooo
[12:33] <sygma1982> van itt valak?i
[12:33] <sygma1982> anybody here rák?
[12:39] <freinhard> neversfelde: can't a 4.3rc yet: http://websvn.kde.org/tags/KDE/
[12:39] <freinhard> +see
[13:59] <shadeslayer> hey anyone here?
[13:59] <shadeslayer> i need to ask if this is normal : http://imagebin.ca/view/NAY6f7.html
[14:03] <shadeslayer> if it is , then im not filing a bug...if it is ill file one at night
[14:04] <shadeslayer> *if it is not
[14:04] <shadeslayer> ill be right back
[14:05] <rgreening> anyone else get bitten by the mesa/dri update last night?
[14:12] <shadeslayer> so....
[14:16] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: I think it is on purpose
[14:21] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: really?
[14:21] <JontheEchidna> yeah, can't say that I agree with the implementation though :/
[14:21] <shadeslayer> me neither...doesnt look good
[14:22] <JontheEchidna> it looks really retarded, like they're making it the width of the task entry just for the hell of it
[14:22] <shadeslayer> totally agree....
[14:23] <shadeslayer> if they had to make it this way,at least those arrows should be on the extreme right...
[14:27] <rgreening> seele: ping
[14:37] <shadeslayer> is there a gui option to set different wallpapers on each desktop (not activity)
[14:41] <rgreening> seele: here's a papercut - Akregator - can't interact with the icon in system tray (possibly only when integrated with Kontact)
[14:49] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: zoom out, then there should be a "plasma settings" button
[14:52] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: then??
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> ok, after configure plasma
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> different activity for each desktop
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> then zoom back in
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> each virtual desktop should now have a different plasma activity
[14:54] <shadeslayer> yum!
[14:55] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: will this increase mem usage??
[14:55] <JontheEchidna> a bit I suppose
[14:56] <shadeslayer> hmm
[14:58] <shadeslayer> thanks for the ttip
[14:58] <shadeslayer> *tip
[15:20] <seele> rgreening: pong
[15:20] <seele> rgreening: is that something easy to fix? add it to the papercut project
[15:20] <rgreening> dunno how easy/hard. I suspect easy...
[15:20] <seele> part of the problem is i dont know how hard some stuff is to fix which is a qualifier for papercuts :(
[15:21] <rgreening> Well, it's a keyboard accelerator and a system tray icon.. theoretically, easy.
[15:21] <rgreening> rather mouse/not keyboard
[15:22] <seele> ok, i say add it and if it becomes too hard then we'll just make it not a papercut
[15:26] <rgreening> seele: whats the process to add it? DO we need to open a bug for it? And how/where do we add it? I'm also sort of tied up today...
[15:28] <rgreening> seele: nm. seems it was fixed since I last used that feature. YAY!
[15:28] <rgreening> lol. I'll crawl under a rock again...
[16:21] <nixternal> good morning kubunauts
[17:31] <ScottK> So we have a netbook seed now.
[17:31] <ScottK> rickspencer3: ^^
[17:31] <rickspencer3> ScottK!
[17:32] <rickspencer3> when can I try it?
[17:32] <rgreening> ScottK: good stuff.
[17:32] <ScottK> Next we need to upload the metapackages (just did a diff for that and Tonio_ is reviewing).
[17:32] <ScottK> Then we need the new default settings packages (Tonio doing)
[17:32] <rgreening> ScottK: I'm going to work on packaging usb-creator-kde today. It works.. but has bugs we need to resolve.
[17:32] <ScottK> Then we ask slangasek to start cranking out some images.
[17:33] <rgreening> whee
[17:33] <ScottK> rgreening: Excellent.  That's an important component of the netbook strategy
[17:33] <rgreening> It took me a while to remove all the gtk/glib/gobject references. I had to get REALLY creative :)
[17:34] <rgreening> callbacks, lambda, all the fun python bits...
[17:34]  * agateau remembers
[17:34] <rgreening> mucho thanks agateau :)
[17:34] <rgreening> lambda rulez
[17:34] <rgreening> :)
[17:34] <agateau> :)
[17:35] <rgreening> I owe beers to agateau next UDS
[17:35]  * ScottK would insist on something harder.
[17:35] <rgreening> now, now... this is a public channel
[17:35]  * agateau does not drink alcohol, but a coke would be fine!
[17:36] <rgreening> :P
[17:36]  * rgreening prob shouldn't either
[17:36] <rgreening> ScottK: are you on jaunty still or have a system with karmic?
[17:37] <rgreening> or anyone else for that matter with karmic?
[17:37] <ScottK> rgreening: On Jaunty still, but my netbook will be karmic once it arrives and your usb thingy works.
[17:37] <rgreening> Need to see if update-notifier-kde is working for them. FOr me it complains and fails.
[17:37] <rgreening> dunno why
[17:38] <rgreening> ImportError: No module named QtCore.. but thats not true...
[17:40] <ScottK> rgreening: What happens if you go into a python shell (python) and try import QtCore
[17:40] <rgreening> works as expected
[17:41] <rgreening> It's like there's a hidden character in the program... and it's not actually looking for QtCore but something else...
[17:41] <rgreening> other python apps work (like my usb-creator-kde) and has the same import line...
[17:43] <ScottK> Weird
[17:48]  * seele pokes agateau to look at some paperkuts
[17:48] <rgreening> ScottK: yeah. boggles my mind.
[17:49] <rgreening> ScottK: ok, so I can the contents of the file to another file and run it... it works.
[17:49] <rgreening> s/can/cat/
[17:50] <rgreening> aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!
[17:50]  * agateau adds seele poke for tomorrow todo
[17:52] <agateau> rgreening: wrong version of python interpreter?
[17:52] <agateau> have to go
[17:52] <agateau> bye
[17:52] <rgreening> nope.bye
[17:52] <rgreening> :)
[18:11]  * Quintasan just deleted all his bookmarks
[18:16] <rgreening> Riddell, JontheEchidna: either of you running karmic?
[18:17] <JontheEchidna> yus
[18:17] <rgreening> need to test update-notifier-kde (it doesn't run for me) from the pyshared dir. If I move it somewhere else, I can make it run.. strange.
[18:17] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: ^
[18:17] <rgreening> can you see if it runs for you?
[18:17] <JontheEchidna> pyshared dir?
[18:18] <freinhard> /usr/share/pyshared/
[18:18] <rgreening> /usr/bin/update-notifier-kde is a link
[18:18] <rgreening> ya
[18:18] <JontheEchidna> oh, ok
[18:18] <JontheEchidna> ImportError: No module named QtCore
[18:19] <rgreening> ok, not just me then. Riddell ^
[18:19] <rgreening> update-notifier-kde is busted when run from the pyshared dir... dunno why.
[18:19] <rgreening> I think it needs to be somewhere else (python-support)?
[18:20] <freinhard> rgreening: that's where it is on jaunty
[18:20] <rgreening> bizzarre.
[18:20] <ScottK> rgreening: Riddell is on vacation.  Please fix.
[18:21] <rgreening> something is definately amis. And it's not a problem in the actual file. I tested moving/renaming, and it runs if not in the pyshare dir.
[18:22] <ScottK> rgreening: What I'd do to troubleshoot this is edit the update-notifier-kde file to print sys.path right before the import and see if it's missing something.
[18:22] <rgreening> JontheEchidna, Riddell: update-notifier-kde fails to exec from pyshared dir in karmic. However, moving to any other dir, it can be executed.
[18:23] <rgreening> ScottK: ^
[18:23] <rgreening> this seems a python issue
[18:23] <rgreening> perhaps
[18:23] <ScottK> rgreening: Yes.  Thus my advice.
[18:23] <rgreening> I tried with both 2.5 and 2.6. Same result also.
[18:24] <Quintasan> oh, if I'm also running karmic, if noone's around poke me :P
[18:27] <rgreening> ScottK: sys.path reports the same path (with the exception of the first entry (the dir it was run from)
[18:30] <ScottK> rgreening: Next I'd try to reinstall it and see if that helps.
[18:30] <rgreening> done that
[18:30] <ScottK> rgreening: OK. How about a no change rebuild and install that?
[18:32] <rgreening> ScottK: here's the problem. I don't know how to fix though. PyQt4 and dbus exist in /usr/share/pyshared. The import statement will look in current dir beofre system wide for import classes/modules. update-notifier-kde.py cannot exist in the top level pyshared dir. period. Someone care to offer fixes :)
[18:33] <rgreening> I think this differs from where PyQt4 and dbus install modules in Jaunty... and hence why broke here.
[18:34] <ScottK> I don't understand.  Why can't it exist there?
[18:35] <rgreening> from PyQt4.QtCore import * ... theres a dir PyQt4 in pyshared, so it thinks that's where QtCore exists. It doesn'.
[18:35] <rgreening> the current path is in sys.path as first in list.
[18:36] <rgreening> same for a dbus dir.
[18:36] <rgreening> and these lines break as the imports will fail using the current dir.
[18:36] <ScottK> I see
[18:36] <rgreening> this must have change from jaunty.
[18:36] <ScottK> Yes.  I believe so.
[18:37] <rgreening> ScottK: do you have a PyQt4 dir in usr/share/pyshared?
[18:37] <ScottK> rgreening: I do
[18:37] <rgreening> check you sys.path
[18:38] <rgreening> maybe that changed
[18:39] <ScottK> rgreening: http://paste.ubuntu.com:80/203036/
[18:40] <rgreening> your first entry is blank. mine wasn't. it was the current dir.
[18:41] <rgreening> so, that's changed. and broken some things we do. prob others.
[18:41] <ScottK> I think that may be an actual on purpose change.
[18:47] <rgreening> Any ideas on correct fix ScottK, Riddell? I think it needs to move directories or be in a subdir off pyshared
[18:48] <rgreening> ScottK: it runs if I move to a subdir update-notifier-kde in usr/share/pyshared
[18:53] <ScottK> rgreening: I don't think update-notifier-kde should be in /usr/share/pyshared.
[18:54] <rgreening> should be in pysupport (my guess)
[18:54] <ScottK> rgreening: Nope.
[18:54] <ScottK> We don't use helper specfic directories anymore
[18:55] <ScottK> Either it's an application and should be in some place like /usr/share or it's a private module and shouldn't be in the public module space.
[18:55] <ScottK> share/bin
[18:57] <rgreening> ScottK: this package is messed up. In install it say copy the .py to python-support but it gets installed to pyshared.
[18:57] <rgreening> wtf
[18:57] <rgreening> :{
[18:57] <ScottK> That's a recent change in python-support (new to Karmic, IIRC)
[18:57] <rgreening> grr
[18:58] <rgreening> ok, I have no idea. I have to get back to usb-creator. Can you look at a fix or enlist someone else to address?
[18:58] <rgreening> schmidtm: ^
[18:58] <rgreening> sry.. meant ScottK^
[18:59]  * ScottK is ENOTIME for the next few days.
[18:59] <rgreening> feel free to enlist
[18:59] <ScottK> Already did that once a long time ago.  I don't care to repeat it.
[19:00] <rgreening> you are the recuiter in this case
[19:00] <rgreening> :P
[19:00] <rgreening> deal out the pain
[19:07] <rgreening>  Bug #391731
[19:08] <rgreening> there, maybe someone who has some time can resolve ( JontheEchidna perhaps )
[19:15] <Quintasan> rgreening: I'm supposed to make update-notifier-kde to be installed into /usr/share/bin?
[19:20] <rgreening> Quintasan: I have no idea on the '''Correct''' way to do this. Things have changes in Karmic. Previously it would have been in python-support and we had a link in /usr/bin to it. I personally think we should install update-notifier-kde.py as /usr/bin/update-notifier-kde and not a symlink. Everything else gets installed correctly.
[19:21] <rgreening> so, no symlink, but the actual file, renamed as update-notifier-kde in /usr/bin
[19:21] <Quintasan> rgreening: I will remove *.links files then, and place the *.py into /usr/bin
[19:21] <rgreening> It's how (for example) ufw does it.
[19:21] <rgreening> Sure, it will at least make it work. If someone else wants to change, they can make the case...
[19:22] <rgreening> Quintasan: make sure you work from trunk and update
[19:22] <rgreening> or send me the diff so I can apply to trunk
[19:24] <Quintasan> I need to practice working with bzr so I will try doing it with bzr first :P
[19:30] <rgreening> bzr checkout http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/update-notifier-kde/trunk
[19:30] <rgreening> then make your changes in trunk dir.
[19:31] <rgreening> once done, bzr export update-notifier-kde from in trunk. creates a new dir above trunk. test build from the exported dir.
[19:31] <rgreening> Quintasan: ^
[19:31] <Quintasan> thx
[19:32] <rgreening> if it builds and installs/runs fine, go back to trunk and bzr commit (add your comments) and then bzr push. Then it's in bzr yay. Then we can upload from there.
[19:33] <rgreening> don't forget to dch -i in the trunk/debian dir before export. Update the revision to next .. etc.
[19:33] <rgreening> Quintasan: ^
[19:37] <Quintasan> why on earth devscripts need postfix?
[19:40] <ScottK> Quintasan: Install it without recommends
[19:52] <seaLne> ok that was impressive just plugged a hp470 usb printer in for the first time and karmic set it all up for me, sweet :)
[20:03] <Quintasan> rgreening: It's alive :D
[20:04] <rgreening> good stuf
[20:08] <Quintasan> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ekubuntu-members/update-notifier-kde/trunk/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
[20:08] <Quintasan> ?
[20:13] <Quintasan> rgreening: ^
[20:15] <rgreening> Quintasan: are you a member of kubuntu-members team in launchpad?
[20:15] <Quintasan> yup
[20:15] <rgreening> and you did a checkout?
[20:15] <Quintasan> err, bzr checkout?
[20:15] <rgreening> yeah
[20:15] <Quintasan> yup
[20:15] <rgreening> and then a bzr commit
[20:16] <Quintasan> this is what  I get at commit
[20:20] <Quintasan> rgreening: I did bzr commit -m " too long to paste here" and this is what I got
[20:21] <rgreening> Quintasan: I think it's cause the checkout url was http ...
[20:22] <rgreening> Quintasan: edit trunk/.bzr/branch/branch.conf so it has this as the bound_location
[20:22] <rgreening> bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ekubuntu-members/update-notifier-kde/trunk/
[20:22] <rgreening> see if that fixes it
[20:24] <rgreening> bzr+ssh instead of http
[20:25] <Quintasan> hm it's doing something but stuck at 0%
[20:27] <rgreening> are you behind any fw that could block ssh?
[20:28] <Quintasan> hmm wrong
[20:28] <Quintasan> it uses port 666 dunno why :D
[20:28] <Quintasan> maybe cause of ssh config
[20:28] <rgreening> lol
[20:29] <Quintasan> ARGH
[20:29] <Quintasan> now I have wrong permissions on .ssh
[20:29] <Quintasan> what permissions I should have rgreening?
[20:30] <rgreening> ls -al .ssh/
[20:30] <rgreening> total 24
[20:30] <rgreening> drwx------
[20:30] <Quintasan> 700?
[20:30] <rgreening> yeah
[20:30] <rgreening> what you have
[20:30]  * Quintasan guessed that
[20:30] <Quintasan> 755
[20:31] <Quintasan> yay
[20:31] <Quintasan> worked
[20:31] <Quintasan> now bzr push?
[20:31] <rgreening> 3 bits. 4(r=on)+2(w=on)+1(x=on)
[20:31] <rgreening> yep
[20:32] <Quintasan> no push location known or specified
[20:32] <rgreening> np, do this...
[20:33] <rgreening> bzr push lp:~kubuntu-members/update-notifier-kde/trunk
[20:33] <rgreening> and that should now save the location so next time, bzr push works
[20:34] <Quintasan> no new revisions to push, is this good?
[20:35] <rgreening> hmm..
[20:35] <Quintasan> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/update-notifier-kde/trunk <- mine commit is listed there
[20:36] <rgreening> Quintasan = Michał Zając?
[20:36] <Quintasan> y
[20:36] <Quintasan> yes
[20:36] <rgreening> you pushed /trun and not trunk
[20:36] <rgreening> essentially a new branch
[20:36] <rgreening> lol
[20:36] <Quintasan> hmm
[20:36] <Quintasan> I did
[20:36] <Quintasan> lol
[20:37] <Quintasan> how do I revert this?
[20:37] <rgreening> oh, wait....
[20:37] <rgreening> I think both a new branch was created and you also updated the original... two different runs I guess...
[20:38] <Quintasan> let me check
[20:38] <rgreening> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/update-notifier-kde/trunk
[20:39] <Quintasan> looks like I screwd it
[20:39] <rgreening> Quintasan: ?
[20:39] <rgreening> looks ok in the url I posted above
[20:40] <Quintasan> rgreening: nothing, just wondering how I missed "k",  can I delete the other branch?
[20:40] <rgreening> yep.
[20:40] <rgreening> open... https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/update-notifier-kde/trun
[20:41] <rgreening> see the trash can icon near to middle of page just after lp:~kubuntu-members/update-notifier-kde/trun
[20:41] <rgreening> click it
[20:41] <Quintasan> done
[20:42] <rgreening> :)
[20:42]  * Quintasan will double-check letters next time
[20:42] <Quintasan> :P
[20:42] <rgreening> lol
[20:42] <rgreening> I know we all want to drop the K in kde programs, but that was extreme
[20:43]  * Quintasan points at paperKuts
[20:51] <rgreening> Quintasan: testbuilding now
[20:54] <rgreening> Quintasan: you need to change something...
[20:54] <Quintasan> hm?
[20:55] <rgreening> It should be called update-notifier-kde (no .py at end).
[20:55] <rgreening> :)
[20:55] <rgreening> Quintasan: change this line in the .install - *py usr/bin/
[20:56] <rgreening> change it to : *py usr/bin/
[20:56] <rgreening> change it to : update-notifier-kde.py usr/bin/update-notifier-kde
[20:56] <rgreening> I think that will work
[20:56] <rgreening> Quintasan: ^
[21:02] <rgreening> Quintasan: apparantly that does NOT work as I thought...
[21:02] <rgreening> lol
[21:03] <rgreening> maybe we should just rename the python program in the package itself to not have the .py on it. It's a main program executable afterall.
[21:05] <rgreening> Quintasan: I'll leave it to you to figure out the best way to handle. You'll need a core dev to review and upload (ScottK, Riddell, etc) as it's in main. When you make changes to bzr now, no need to bump to another version in changelog (as it's not released yet).
[21:06] <rgreening> I have to run....
[21:06] <Quintasan> rgreening: the solution you proposed worked for me :P
[21:07] <rgreening> hmm... maybe I screwed up... It created a dir with the .py in it when I tested...
[21:07] <Quintasan> or not
[21:07] <rgreening> yeah
[21:07] <rgreening> lol
[21:07] <Quintasan> it made a directory :/
[21:07] <rgreening> yep
[21:07] <Quintasan> guess I will rename the .py file
[21:07] <rgreening> bzr mv it
[21:07] <rgreening> to keep history intact
[21:08] <Quintasan> ok, I will work on it
[21:08] <rgreening> bzr mv update-notifier-kde.py update-notifier-kde
[21:08] <rgreening> ok, later. good luck.
[21:08] <Quintasan> thanks
[21:08] <rgreening> np
[21:51] <Quintasan> ScottK:https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/update-notifier-kde/trunk  <-- please review rev. 80 and upload if it's good :)


[22:52] <pleia2> updated http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/ReportingPage with our meeting and FCM, please add other things if you have them :)


[00:22] <brousch> mrgoodcat : Where you at?
[00:25] <mrgoodcat> i'm the kid that said good job
[00:25] <mrgoodcat> by the livestream camera
[00:25] <mrgoodcat> pink collared shirt
[00:28] <brousch> cmaloney: Stinker. Blocking Facebook.
[00:30] <mrgoodcat> brousch: ssh -D 8080 user@host
[00:30] <mrgoodcat> SOCKS proxy
[00:30] <mrgoodcat> be happy
[00:30] <mrgoodcat> :)
[00:31] <brousch> I'm being oppressed!
[03:30] <cmaloney> brousch: THat's me, the Facebook blocker. :)
[03:31] <mrgoodcat> cmaloney: but really, why is facebook blocked at mug meetings?
[03:34] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: It's because I keep forgetting to remove an old rule that I had on my old router
[03:36] <mrgoodcat> lol
[03:44] <tony-smlr> cmaloney: I figured out the civicrm plugin.
[03:45] <cmaloney> tony-smlr: Awesome. :)
[03:45] <tony-smlr> I updated the meeting with the youtube link and the github for the presentation
[03:45] <cmaloney> tony-smlr: Thank you.
[03:45] <tony-smlr> Your welcome
[12:16] <brousch> My phone screwed me last night. Took me up M-5 to 75 to 69 instead of right to I-96
[12:16] <brousch> Added 20mins to my drive
[12:45] <cmaloney> brousch: Ugh
[12:45] <cmaloney> Glad you got home safely though
[12:46] <brousch> Yeah, roads were empty
[12:46] <cmaloney> We're really thrilled you were able to make it out to MUG last night
[12:46] <brousch> I had fun
[12:46] <cmaloney> Thank you for making the trek and for doing an weseome presentation
[12:47] <brousch> Let me know if you have or hear any criticism. I'll probably give this talk 2-3 more times
[12:49] <cmaloney> So far I haven't heard anything
[12:49] <cmaloney> but positive
[12:56] <brousch> I know I need to sort the video stuff out better
[12:56] <brousch> Maybe upgrade to a B+ so everything runs faster
[12:57] <cmaloney> Yeah, I'm not sure if the B+ has the faster CPu or not
[12:58] <brousch> Hm, guess not
[12:58] <brousch> http://www.raspberrypi.org/products/model-b-plus/
[12:58] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/qPvNaA - Model B+ | Raspberry Pi
[12:58] <cmaloney> http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/22394/whats-the-difference-between-the-model-b-and-b
[12:58] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/4PAx6i - hardware - What's the difference between the Model B and B+? - Raspberry Pi Stack Exchange
[13:00] <brousch> Sounds like the power might be more consistent
[13:05] <mrgoodcat> i don't it see mentioned on that page but the audio now has a dedicated low-noise PSU so you don't have to worry about getting electrical noise in the audio like you did before. Makes it much better for HTPC setups
[13:24] <cmaloney> I think it's briefly mentioned in the PSU upgrade.
[13:24] <brousch> From my drive to tha D yesterday https://www.dropbox.com/s/l220mwbfrtna2px/2014-10-14%2017.18.30.jpg?dl=0
[13:24] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ExCfoQ - Dropbox - 2014-10-14 17.18.30.jpg
[13:25] <mrgoodcat> hard to see in the picture but it looks pretty full
[13:25] <brousch> Yeah, I couldn't get a good pic due to driving
[13:25] <brousch> Double rainbow several times
[13:25] <cmaloney> Nice!
[13:26] <cmaloney> See, they were showing you the way to bliss. ;)
[13:27] <brousch> They stopped before Lansing
[13:31] <mrgoodcat> the pinboard guy got all angry https://blog.pinboard.in/2014/10/holy_war_on_sites_that_demand_pinboard_passwords/
[13:31] <mrgoodcat> wtf bookiebot where are you
[13:32] <mrgoodcat> lxml crashed on that site for some reason...
[14:00] <jrwren_> brousch: nice thing about i69 is you can go 80-90mph and won't see a cop.  on i96, trucks make that impossible.
[14:09] <brousch> But if I go 80 I drop to 42MPG
[14:09] <brousch> Barbaric
[14:09] <mrgoodcat> if i go 80 i drop to 12MPG
[14:10] <mrgoodcat> from like 16 at 70
[14:10] <akelling> Somebody has a big old truck
[14:13] <mrgoodcat> 2004 suburban
[14:18] <rick_h_> ccccccbgjgvcbevdjdjvnlbjchkkutkbcdiilbrtfkuc
[14:19] <mrgoodcat> this is not your yubikey field
[14:19] <mrgoodcat> rick_h_
[14:19] <mrgoodcat> crap. ignore that dumb tab complete
[14:20] <akelling> lol
[14:21] <akelling> Those Suburban's are great. Best body style they ever had IMO.
[14:21] <mrgoodcat> akelling: yea the new one looks like a hearse
[14:21] <mrgoodcat> i love mine
[14:22] <akelling> Want to haul a trailer those things will do it with ease.
[14:22] <mrgoodcat> not as well as our f150 but yea it gets the job done for sure
[14:22] <akelling> Most likly get the same MPG too lol
[14:22] <mrgoodcat> mine has airbags too for ride leveling
[14:22] <akelling> Take it you have the newer F150?
[14:22] <mrgoodcat> yea 2012 lariat
[14:23] <akelling> Nice!
[14:23] <mrgoodcat> best vehicle we've ever owned
[14:23] <mrgoodcat> hands down
[14:23] <akelling> Everyone that I know that owns a newer F150 says that too. They ride so nice.
[14:23] <mrgoodcat> it also rounds out the major pickup manufacturers. now we've owned a RAM, a Silverado, and an F150
[14:24] <mrgoodcat> nicest interior, nicest ride, best towing, best fuel economy
[14:24] <brousch> YOU'RE KILLING THE PLANET!
[14:24] <mrgoodcat> i really can't think of a single category that any truck beats it in
[14:24] <akelling> Next one going to be a Toyota Tundra?
[14:24] <mrgoodcat> if you need more towing than is available in the F150 you should really be going up to the super duty size anyways
[14:25] <mrgoodcat> lol foreign car, who do you think i am?
[14:25] <akelling> I heard they are killing off the F250.
[14:25] <mrgoodcat> i'm pissed enough at chrysler for being an italian company
[14:25] <mrgoodcat> akelling: not killing off, just renaming to Super Duty
[14:25] <cmaloney> Soooper Dooooodie
[14:25] <mrgoodcat> killing off the 250 moniker though
[14:26] <cmaloney> Which means they'll decontent it
[14:26] <mrgoodcat> what do you mean by that?
[14:26] <cmaloney> Means they'll put something out to replace it but it won't be the same vehicle
[14:26] <cmaloney> less towing, less chutzpah
[14:27] <mrgoodcat> nah. i doubt it. it's exactly the same truch just with a different name, and they aren't marketing it to consumers
[14:27] <mrgoodcat> its supposed to be a work truck
[14:28] <mrgoodcat> no reason to undercut the F150 and the Super Duty with an inbetweener
[14:28] <akelling> F350 = Super Duty?
[14:29] <mrgoodcat> no F250 = Super Duty
[14:29] <mrgoodcat> well, anything > 150 is in the super duty line
[14:29] <akelling> oic
[14:29] <cmaloney> So the F350 will be the Ultra-Duty?
[14:29] <akelling> Most people dont need more then the F150.
[14:30] <mrgoodcat> there are almost no people that need more than the F150. lots of companies though
[14:30] <akelling> Farmers is what came to my mind
[14:30] <mrgoodcat> if you count independent workers like farmers as businesses, there is pretty much nobody outside of businesses that need the super duty sizes
[14:31] <akelling> Exactly
[14:31] <akelling> Wish they had a light duty truck still. I loved the Rangers
[14:32] <mrgoodcat> really? i always thought they filled a somewhat useless niche
[14:32] <mrgoodcat> people_who_want_to_own_trucks_but_don't_need_them
[14:32] <mrgoodcat> ranger can do almost nothing an SUV can't do
[14:33] <akelling> I always liked the open bed. Lot of things I dont want in the car with me.
[14:34] <mrgoodcat> i guess... it still seems like too small a market segment to worry about
[14:34] <mrgoodcat> combined with the fact that the rangers had terrible build quality
[14:34] <akelling> They seemed to sell well look how many of them are still rolling around.
[14:35] <rick_h_> mrgoodcat: :P
[14:35] <rick_h_> mrgoodcat: I'm so tired and worn out all I can speak is yubikey
[14:35] <mrgoodcat> only 19k rangers in 2012
[14:36] <mrgoodcat> http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/ford-ranger-sales-figures.html
[14:36] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/dDTNUw - Ford Ranger Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR
[14:36] <akelling> really wow
[14:36] <mrgoodcat> scroll to the 3rd table
[14:36] <mrgoodcat> shows a clear down trend
[14:36] <mrgoodcat> down 90% in 10 years
[14:36] <rick_h_> mrgoodcat: when I get my airstream and my F250 super duty I'll disagree :P
[14:37] <mrgoodcat> rick_h_: how much does that airstream weigh?
[14:37] <mrgoodcat> also, get the diesel. we owned one and it was glorious
[14:37] <rick_h_> the one I want? loaded with stuff for a week+ journey around 12k
[14:37] <rick_h_> yea, I'm all deisel from now on
[14:37] <rick_h_> I'll never go back
[14:37] <mrgoodcat> aww yea
[14:37] <rick_h_> my TDI rules
[14:37] <mrgoodcat> wish i could get a diesel fusion
[14:37] <rick_h_> I was a deisel q3 here that seemed cool
[14:38] <rick_h_> small little cross over thing in tdi
[14:38] <akelling> Ah thats why. Priced them selfs out. For just a little more you get an F150
[14:38] <mrgoodcat> yea, and the f150 became so much easier to drive and nicer interiors
[14:39] <akelling> Very true.
[14:40] <mrgoodcat> F series sold 60K in september of this year alone
[14:40] <akelling> So many memorys beating the crap of Rangers though. The V6 models where unkillable
[14:40] <jrwren_> brousch: ah, so you go 55 to hypermile?
[14:41] <mrgoodcat> he probably tailgates semis for the drafting too
[14:41] <mrgoodcat> while eating kale and avocados
[14:41] <mrgoodcat> :P
[14:41] <jrwren_> I don't understand small truck low sales. They are the most useful pickups around. I want a S10 with a 2.2L 4cyl long bed. Perfect for garden work.
[14:41] <jrwren_> mmm... kale and avocados
[14:43] <jrwren_> nah, if he was that hardcore hippie, he'd go to the farmers market in a gazelle cabby. http://www.gazellebikes.com/collection-bikes/cabby?type=ladies
[14:43] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Is5X67 - Cabby
[14:46] <brousch> jrwren_: I aim for 50MPG. I can get that at 70MPH if the wind and rain aren't too bad
[14:47] <akelling> That is my usecase for a light duty truck. Small Gardening work.  Ranger is dead?
[14:48] <rick_h_> jrwren_: the colorado?
[14:48] <rick_h_> jrwren_: that's the small end truck on the GM end right?
[14:48] <jrwren_> rick_h_: yeah, that is GM.
[14:48] <jrwren_> oh... Ranger might be coming back. http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/ford-considering-ranger-sized-compact-pickup/
[14:48] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/9k1RVf - Ford considering Ranger-sized compact pickup | Digital Trends
[14:48] <jrwren_> rick_h_: Colorado is not a small pickup. its midsize. :(  I miss the S10
[14:48] <rick_h_> gotcha
[14:49] <rick_h_> what about that subaru elcamino thing :P
[14:49] <rick_h_> I think they stopped making it though
[14:49] <jrwren_> rick_h_: those are sweet!  or an old Brat.
[14:49] <brousch> Small pickup http://www.tfltruck.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/subaru.baja-profile.jpg
[14:49] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/7eKPKn - image/jpeg
[14:49] <jrwren_> craigslist->subara brat
[14:49] <jrwren_> no results
[14:50] <akelling> Colorado is huge compaired to the S10
[14:50] <brousch> subaru baja
[14:50] <akelling> UGH those 1/4 bed trucks
[14:50] <brousch> marketed to surfers, I assume
[14:51] <akelling> marketed to women mostly.
[14:52] <jrwren_> akelling: exactly. S10 was a small pickup. Colorado is midsized.
[14:52] <akelling> Ford had an Escape version that was nice but eveyone that owned one that I knew was a women. Put the grocerys in the bed and don.
[14:52] <jrwren_> An Escape with an open bed?
[14:53] <akelling> Ford Escape sport trac
[14:54] <mrgoodcat> ugh the sport trac
[14:55] <jrwren_> i worry about buying any american low volume vehicle.
[14:56] <akelling> I worry about buying any American vehicle....
[14:56] <jrwren_> They make 100 of them a year. The line never really figures out the product and optimizes, and so you get lots of bugs.
[14:56] <akelling> This Ford I have right now is really nice though for what it is.
[14:56] <jrwren_> I don't worry about the good american vehicles. My 13yr old chevy is rocking.
[14:57] <akelling> Yeah I dont think I would buy a GM anytime soon.
[14:57] <mrgoodcat> i don't worry about newer fords, although they had some bad years semi-recently
[14:57] <mrgoodcat> the new GMs are pretty meh
[14:57] <akelling> Dodge I am coming around to.
[14:57] <mrgoodcat> chrysler is italian
[14:58] <akelling> So many Transmission issues in there 90's era cars and trucks.
[15:00] <jrwren_> depends on the GM model.
[15:00] <jrwren_> and, in general, GM is expensive for what you get.
[15:00] <mrgoodcat> my 2004 suburban (Chevy/GM) had a crap transmission in it out of the factory.   American cars have really stepped up there game the past few years. Why I ended up in Ford.
[15:13] <akelling> LMAO
[15:13] <akelling> GLHS != Dodge.
[15:13] <mrgoodcat> Shelby right?
[15:13] <akelling> Its a shelby
[15:14] <akelling> Cool car back in the 80's
[15:16] <mrgoodcat> there were no cool cars in the 80's
[15:16] <akelling> DMC's?
[15:16] <akelling> I loved my Celica Supra. Car was older then me.
[15:17] <akelling> CRX's
[15:18] <akelling> Thats about it on my list of cool cars from the 80's
[15:40] <mrgoodcat> anybody use thunderbird for email? http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2373-1/
[15:40] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/bJB79v - USN-2373-1: Thunderbird vulnerabilities | Ubuntu
[15:49] <cmaloney> I use it
[15:50] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.starrealms.starrealmsapp
[15:50] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Nb08Nw - Star Realms - Android Apps on Google Play
[15:50] <cmaloney> $5 for online play
[15:50] <cmaloney> which I've gotten more than my $5 worth IMHO
[16:11] <cmaloney> https://www.google.com/nexus/6/
[16:11] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/7ZxFFb - Nexus 6 â Google
[16:56] <mrgoodcat> (thai food)++
[18:13] <mrgoodcat> brousch: i cant believe you are going to win this battle
[18:13] <brousch> mrgoodcat: You're making me think way too hard in this game.
[18:17] <mrgoodcat> i've felt less out of my depth this game. but i'll probably still lose lol
[18:18] <mrgoodcat> i should have killed that group when i had the chance
[18:19] <brousch> You never know. Killing a group costs moves, which I could use to pester other parts of the board
[18:24] <mrgoodcat> i think this might have been a defining battle in this game
[18:35] <brousch> Definitely, though I'm sure all is lost for you
[18:35] <brousch> I'm not sure
[18:38] <mrgoodcat> not all maybe, certainly a lot
[18:44] <brousch> mrgoodcat: Make sure you take good look at the middle left of the board
[18:45] <brousch> It looks secure at a glance, but you technically have 0 eyes there
[18:58] <mrgoodcat> yea i know. i was just trying to figure out how to save that part
[19:01] <brousch> It's like 2 moves from being a big 1 eye with a lot of room to add on the second
[19:03] <brousch> That was the essential move. Well done
[19:04] <brousch> Now I could take it in 6 moves if you don't establish the 2nd eye
[19:05] <brousch> But before the last it was vulnerable in 2 moves
[19:08] <mrgoodcat> I was so sure of myself in that battle early on
[19:09] <mrgoodcat> made overconfidence mistakes
[19:16] <brousch> Happens to me all the time. You almost got that left corner because I didn't reinforce it
[19:17] <akelling> What are you guys playing?
[19:17] <mrgoodcat> Go
[19:17] <mrgoodcat> http://www.dragongoserver.net/game.php?gid=935149
[19:17] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/lmuceB - DGS - Game #935149,85
[19:18] <akelling> Ah
[19:18] <akelling> Always wanted to learn how to play that.
[19:19] <mrgoodcat> then learn
[19:19] <mrgoodcat> make an account on DGS
[19:19] <mrgoodcat> i just started last week
[19:19] <mrgoodcat> i'll play with you
[19:19] <mrgoodcat> i'm sure brousch and cmaloney will too
[19:44] <brousch> mrgoodcat: Your thoughts on g8?
[19:45] <mrgoodcat> i need g8 and g10 to protect f10-13
[19:45] <mrgoodcat> I also need a second eye
[19:45] <brousch> Can g8 become an eye?
[19:46] <mrgoodcat> you own 3 of the corners so no
[19:46] <mrgoodcat> i would need h7 and h9
[19:47] <mrgoodcat> f9 is out of the question
[19:47] <mrgoodcat> unless i'm missing something
[19:48] <brousch> That is correct. Obviously h9 is vulnerable. What about h7?
[19:48] <mrgoodcat> it's actually not invulnerable yet
[19:48] <mrgoodcat> but it would be devlishly hard to get
[19:48] <brousch> Correct. So what is the right thing to do with g8?
[19:49] <mrgoodcat> i've already claimed g10, i'm going to fill g8 obviously
[19:49] <mrgoodcat> which has the side-effect of connecting my structures and making them harder to capture
[19:49] <mrgoodcat> giving me more opportunity to make a second eye
[19:49] <brousch> good
[19:50] <mrgoodcat> i'm still mad i pissed that corner away
[19:50] <mrgoodcat> it was mine and i let it go
[19:50] <brousch> You see a lot more than I think sometimes ;)
[19:50] <mrgoodcat> brousch: i'm a quick learner especially for abstract things
[19:51] <mrgoodcat> I think if I would have killed your group in the bottom left I would have stood a good chance at winning this one
[19:52] <mrgoodcat> I played like 10 games on my phone with the computer last night and won all but 2 games. a couple by a significant margin :)
[19:52] <brousch> Yes
[19:53] <brousch> Although winning the corner has made me arrogant so I could slip up due to that
[19:53] <mrgoodcat> there's so much more to this than chess
[19:54] <mrgoodcat> I'm used to wrecking people in chess. its nice to play a game i'm bad at again. i like the learning process
[19:54] <brousch> I am horrible at chess
[19:55] <mrgoodcat> I used to think i was bad a chess
[19:55] <mrgoodcat> because i oonly ever played with my dad
[19:57] <mrgoodcat> i mean don't get me wrong, i'm not good either. just better than my friends at WMU
[19:58] <brousch> OK, time for the boy's fencing class. CYA
[19:58] <mrgoodcat> have a great time
[19:58] <mrgoodcat> fencing is badass btw
[19:58] <mrgoodcat> your kid is awesome
[20:16] <mrgoodcat> cmaloney: any idea who's going to be at CHC tonight?
[20:55] <cmaloney> I'm planning on being there
[20:55] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: ^


[00:01] <bkerensa> nathwill:  http://owncloud.benjaminkerensa.com/
[00:01] <bkerensa> :D
[00:02] <bkerensa> nathwill:  So I have one cloud instance for owncloud... one for piwik and another for openvbx
[00:02] <bkerensa> :D
[00:21] <nathwill> i can't connect to owncloud
[00:21] <nathwill> it's timing out :/
[07:04] <bkerensa> good night all!
[16:06] <nathwill> guten morgen alle
[20:29] <bkerensa> ugh cdn
[21:12] <bkero> cdn your life is pain
[23:17] <cy1> any idea how to get a handheld computer that can play music and do IRC?
[23:20] <nathwill> cy1: buy a smartphone?
[23:20] <cy1> nathwill: those are, unfortunately, closed source.
[23:20] <cy1> also hard to upgrade.
[23:20] <nibalizer> not ones that run debian
[23:21] <nibalizer> m900 for instance
[23:48] <cy1> nibalizer: yeah, that's what I'm asking! Thanks! I thought the m900 was Android though?
[23:48] <nibalizer> i have a friend with debian on his m900
[23:48] <nibalizer> but m900 is kindof an older phone now..
[23:49] <cy1> I'm kind of a cheapskate, so it works out.
[23:54] <cy1> other phones are welcome though! I don't really need a cell phone... <.<
[23:55] <nathwill> n900?
[23:56] <nathwill> hrm
[23:56] <nathwill> cy1, you could probably pick up a rasp-pi and some extra components to slap one together...
[23:57] <cy1> wow, n900 I haven't heard that model in years...
[23:59] <cy1> nathwill: huh, it's got audio and a GPU, plug in a foldable USB keyboard and you're on IRC with your favorite tunes blaring! Could probably use a playing card deck holder as a case hm...
[23:59] <cy1> oh, and some kind of monitor hm...


[00:09] <rmg51> princedimond: how about dogs and turkeys?
[00:09] <rmg51> we have one of each
[00:35] <pleia2> my favorite part is that he's responding to a bear
[00:49] <rmg51> what's wrong with that?
[00:50] <pleia2> he's asking a bear what critters would be here ;)
[00:51] <pleia2> I mean, bears, for instance
[00:51] <rmg51> true
[00:52] <rmg51> but he's new
[00:52] <pleia2> yep
[00:52] <rmg51> he never met Teddy
[00:52] <rmg51> or Stitch
[00:53] <rmg51> or any of your other critters
[00:53] <rmg51> or the minions ;-)
[00:54] <rmg51> at least Bob can talk back
[00:54] <rmg51> you just can't understand him :-D
[00:56] <rmg51> then again, half the time I can't understand jedijf
[03:34] <princedimond> lol....
[03:34] <princedimond> sory for the delayed reaction but i just now got to read that /me laughs
[03:38] <princedimond> most of the time i can understand jedijf XD
[03:38] <princedimond> i guess i get lucky XD
[11:01] <jackson> morn
[12:03] <rmg51> Morning
[13:46] <jedijf> princedimond: ny nbems in 15 minutes on 7.073 olivia 8-500 1500 on the waterfall
[13:46] <jedijf> Good morning, happy easter, purim and Spring
[13:46] <jedijf> well, i guess purim is over....maybe not the hangover


[02:11] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: but the menu item name does
[02:11] <OvenWerks> the package name should be changed then
[02:11] <OvenWerks> it should be just Ardour
[02:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: It's synced from Debian, I have no control on this anymore.
[02:12] <OvenWerks> no problem... we will wait for them to figure it out :)
[02:12] <Eickmeyer[m]> I don't know why they put Ardour6 as the menu item, but it doesn't affect the functionality of the application.
[02:13] <OvenWerks> stage is set up. wiring works. carpet is down.
[02:13]  * OvenWerks is tired
[02:13] <Eickmeyer[m]> Nice. I don't blame you.
[02:14] <OvenWerks> I think we need some curtains at the back of the stage
[02:16] <OvenWerks> or some other sound absorbent
[05:38] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: -O2 is the cause. Some optimization is doing it.
[05:42] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: tried -O1 also failed. tried -O0 works
[05:43] <OvenWerks> I don't know if merely specing -O0 in the meson build will override or not.
[05:44] <OvenWerks> when I run meson build it says: Consider using the built-in optimization level instead of using "-O0"
[06:40] <OvenWerks> anyway, that does build and run.
[06:45] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: I have fixed the above warning (Consider using the built-in). I also found that my --version had the wrong program name.
[06:46] <OvenWerks> I also got a pr to add french to the desktop file.
[06:47] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: what file name should I use for a file listing authors? (now that there is more than just me)
[06:56] <OvenWerks> Added AUTHORS file.
[06:59] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: I think I will wait for a week or so and release 0.1.2. This will give other people time to find bugs. Also there is LAD release day on the 15th of each month to keep projects from looking stale because there have been no new releases for two years
[07:00] <OvenWerks> if that is soon enough for G release... let me know if you need a release sooner for FF or something.
[07:03] <OvenWerks> 0.1.2 should run without any override in packaging.
[07:04] <OvenWerks> also I am wondering if I should have a sub section in AUTHORS for tranlators?
[14:26] <OvenWerks> actually I already did
[16:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: You were up way later working on that than I was expecting. 😆
[16:29]  * OvenWerks was keeping his wife company
[16:30] <Eickmeyer[m]> I was already in bed at the time. :D
[16:31] <OvenWerks> I have actually had a few nice coments on the LAU mail list
[16:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh good!
[16:31] <OvenWerks> Someone added french to the desktop file
[16:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> My Behringer X-Touch Mini works in MC mode, so I might test it with that.
[16:31]  * Eickmeyer[m] would love a full-size X-Touch or even an X-Touch compact
[16:32] <OvenWerks> I use it with this: http://www.ovenwerks.net/hardware/3dollarcontrolsurface.html
[16:33] <OvenWerks> But aparently it is handy with single channel surfaces too
[16:34] <Eickmeyer[m]> I guess after 26 years I'm at home behind something resembling a mixing console.
[16:35] <OvenWerks> The next app... after -controls and Ardour is midikb. It will get converted to ALSA midi only so it can run system side.
[16:36] <OvenWerks> right now it has to have permisions changed to work. Jack means it has to run as user.
[16:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yikes.
[16:42] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: if you want to try a build on mcpdisp with current git, we can see if my fix works
[16:42]  * Eickmeyer[m] is opposed to running anything as root if it can be avoided
[16:43] <OvenWerks> If it all seems to work I can do release.
[16:43] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'll have to check later.
[16:44] <OvenWerks> well, the keyboard to midi part needs to run as root, but the midi access should be as user
[16:45] <OvenWerks> I am thinking the midimap/layout can get sent to the system side by MIDI sysex
[16:47] <OvenWerks> it would be possible to use the numeric keypad as a midi control and the rest of the keyboard normally or use one keyboard for computer and another as MIDI controller
[16:49]  * OvenWerks has to get ready to go out
[17:06]  * Eickmeyer[m] is on his way out too


[06:42] <sosodank> hey there. i'm an upstream software author and also a debian maintainer, and i package my own stuff for debian. during one of these long debian freeze periods, does ubuntu accept new versions of packages that it pulls down from debian?
[06:42] <sosodank> i.e. i'm uploading new versions to debian unstable, but i don't believe that flows to ubuntu via any mechanism
[06:43] <sosodank> i'd like ubuntu's dev channel to be getting new versions...is there any way to do that (without being an ubuntu developer)?
[06:44] <sosodank> or is that a meaningless question, and there is no real ubuntu dev channel during debian freeze, at least one any users run
[07:35] <JanC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess might be useful
[07:35] <JanC> sosodank: ^
[07:38] <JanC> maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/ForDebianDevelopers also
[07:55] <sosodank> ohhhhhhhhh and this can pull down from sid, great, yeah that's exactly what i need
[07:55] <sosodank> ok sorry i had used it once before, but it was to work around ubuntu freeze
[07:55] <sosodank> awesome. debian freeze is almost over, but i'll remember this, thanks!
[08:00] <mitya57> sosodank: Until August 19 (Debian Import Freeze), packages from sid are synced automatically unless they were modified in Ubuntu.
[08:01] <mitya57> Check https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/SOURCE_PKG_NAME to see if your upload has already been synced into Ubuntu.
[10:22] <sosodank> oh hey, there it is in impish
[10:23] <sosodank> alright, well apologies for thoroughly wasting everyone's time
[10:23] <sosodank> and appreciate the pointers to docs i ought have been more familiar with
[12:41] <TJ-> before I hit the shell/manual track, is there existing tooling/workflow to speed up rebasing a package on latest upstream (git)? e.g., starting from upstream, dropping in the last ./debian/ directory, and figuring out which ./debian/patches/ are still required, which need modifications, which can be dropped ?
[12:47] <TJ-> Got 220 patches to work though!
[12:48] <rbasak> You might find "gbp pq" helpful
[12:48] <rbasak> Collapse the quilt patches into git, then use git rebase. Then you get git's conflict resolution to sort out the patch set against the new upstream
[12:48] <rbasak> And finally, when done, export them back out into quilt
[12:50] <TJ-> rbasak: that looks promising - reading up on it. I'm forward-porting the patches from grub 2.04 to upstream 2.06 :)
[12:51] <rbasak> TJ-: grub2 packaging in Debian uses git-dpm I think
[12:51] <rbasak> Which is another way of using git to manage the patchset
[12:51] <TJ-> there's shortcuts for patches from upstream via checking their git commit IDs
[12:51] <rbasak> You might find it easier to integrate with that
[12:52] <TJ-> rbasak: yes, it does, I've been figuring git-dpm out too but not discovered a semi-automated way to do the initial "what needs fixing" analysis
[16:40] <cjwatson> TJ-: with git-dpm you just rebase on upstream and let git do a lot of the hard work.  Certainly don't do it by copying debian directories around by hand - that's going about things the hard way
[16:40] <cjwatson> git will automatically drop patches that are trivially already applied and such
[16:41] <cjwatson> I expect to be doing this for unstable after bullseye releases, and then stepping up the task of looking for a new maintainer
[16:44] <TJ-> cjwatson: thanks for the advice. I'm doing this to get the TFTP support for grub.cfg-$MACADDRESS mostly
[16:45] <cjwatson> You could also find an upstream patch and cherry-pick it, which will likely be quite a lot less work if you just have a particular goal like that in mind
[16:45] <cjwatson> or patches
[16:45] <TJ-> I did think of that, but seeing so many new goodies in upstream, I thought its worth doing this properly :)
[16:46] <TJ-> plus I can finally get around to working my own stand-alone patches into it :)