[11:01] <popey> what happens if someone has a hardy lpia install and wants to upgrade to lucid?
[11:02] <popey> also, where can I get an lpia image to test this on virtualbox/testdrive/kvm/whatever


[06:20] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:36] <icey> cpaelzer_: I'm trying to build the nfs-ganesha package from groovy with sbuild, and I'm seeing linker errors, do you recall if you had to do something special to get it to build?
[10:22] <cpaelzer_> icey: I don't remember any special tweaks
[10:23] <cpaelzer_> I'd suggest to compare it with the build log of the version in the archive?
[10:23] <icey> cpaelzer_: dang - I was hoping you could point me in the right direction; there's 1 line of diff that I'm hoping to add to Groovy+, and 3 in Focal
[10:23] <icey> cpaelzer_: yeah, that'll be the next hole to dig
[10:23] <icey> cpaelzer_: thanks!
[10:34] <icey> cpaelzer_: I have a sinking feeling that we need this upstream patch: https://salsa.debian.org/debian/nfs-ganesha/-/merge_requests/2/diffs
[10:34] <ubot3> Merge 2 in debian/nfs-ganesha "Add patch to fix FTBFS with GCC-10 (Closes: #966869)" [Merged]


[00:00] <kieppie> I can manually log in guest session fine
[00:00] <sarnold> hrm, those don't feel like they would be fatal..
[00:01] <kieppie> x-0.log doesn't ring bells either: http://pastebin.com/7pb9jKEn
[00:02] <kieppie> I can start with a clean slate if needs be (made a backup of original)
[00:03] <sarnold> kieppie: is there anything in dmesg?
[00:04] <kieppie> init: lightdm main process (1005) terminated with status 1
[00:12] <sarnold> *sigh* of course the lightdm manpage doesn't describe what the return values mean.
[00:15] <kieppie> yea...
[00:16] <kieppie> sarnold: changed it a bit: http://pastebin.com/H6V1PHr8
[00:16] <kieppie> same result - no dice
[00:21] <sarnold> kieppie: I wonder if you have to use guest-session instead of autologin-session ...
[00:21] <sarnold> kieppie: is lightdm-autologin one of the sessions in /usr/share/xsessions ?
[00:21] <kieppie> "guest-session=lightdm-autologin" <-?
[00:22] <kieppie> xfce.desktop  xubuntu.desktop
[00:22] <sarnold> kieppie: .. I think anything with *-session= ... requires a matching file in /usr/share/xsessions/
[00:22] <kieppie> ok
[00:22] <kieppie> will try
[00:23] <kieppie> makes sense
[00:25] <kieppie> I've tried setting "autologin-session=xubuntu", but still nothing
[00:25] <sarnold> :(
[00:25] <kieppie> oooh!
[00:25] <kieppie> set login time=0
[00:25] <kieppie> :)
[00:26] <kieppie> autologin-user-timeout=0
[00:26] <kieppie> had it at 2, for testing
[00:26] <kieppie> looks good now, thanks
[00:26] <kieppie> :)
[00:26] <sarnold> kieppie: oh! woo. :)
[00:26] <kieppie> cheers
[00:26] <kieppie> thanks for your help
[00:27] <sarnold> you're welcome :)
[00:49] <psusi> so I'm trying to figure out what process owns a pop up window and when I run xwininfo it seems to lock the focus... can't alt tab back to the window to click on it... is there a way to break the lock?
[00:57] <psusi> ok... what on earth is gnome-settings-daemon and why is it running?  udisks is supposed to handle auto mounting isn't it?
[00:59] <RAOF> psusi: gnome-settings-daemon does all sorts of other stuff
[01:00] <psusi> RAOF, why is it trying to handle auto mounting?  that's what we have udisks for?  and why is it trying to do "all sorts of other stuff"?  HAL tried to do that and failed...
[01:01] <RAOF> You need to have a user daemon to handle auto-mounting, not least because it's going to need to prompt in some cases.
[01:02] <psusi> that's what udisks is for isn't it?
[01:02] <RAOF> g-s-d is basically the running-in-user's-X11-session bit of a bunch of infrastructure.
[01:02] <RAOF> Correct me if I'm wrong, but udisks is a system daemon?
[01:03] <RAOF> g-s-d is *using* udisks for mounting IIRC, but you do need a user-session component to do the user interaction bits.
[01:05] <psusi> seems like udisks should be doing that... but my problem is that when I run the parted test suite, even with udisks --inhibit running, it seems that this gnome-settings automount stuff is still trying to fiddle with the short lived test devices created, and pops up a bunch of errors
[01:06] <psusi> presumably because the devices are only created for a moment for a specific parted test, then destroyed, and gsd is racing with the descruction
[01:22] <psusi> is there a manual for gnome-settings-daemon somewhere?  I can't even find a page about it on developer.gnome.org
[01:34] <psusi> I'm getting the feeling that this thing is actually debian home grown and not part of gnome at all... its README file is emtpy, its COPYING file says it's owned by the FSF, but isn't listed on either the gnu or nongnu savannah... there's no website header in the package control file, and the project page on launchpad is just a placeholder... where the heck does this thing come from?
[01:56] <AlfredOPrufrocks> hi there
[02:04] <RAOF> psusi: https://github.com/GNOME/gnome-settings-daemon ?
[02:04] <RAOF> First google result (at least for me)
[02:04] <psusi> RAOF, yea, that's about all I could find too... but what's it doing there?  if it's really part of GNOME, shouldn't it be on the gnome web site?
[02:06] <psusi> it's readme file is also empty
[02:08] <RAOF> psusi: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/ would be more canonical ☺
[02:09] <psusi> I'm starting to hate gnome's web site.. I can never seem to find anything useful on it
[02:21] <darkxst> the automount helper has been removed from 3.8
[02:30] <darkxst> it is now handled in gnome-shell, which won't help your issue psusi, but might explain why you wont find anything on the website
[05:08] <pitti> Good morning
[06:14] <didrocks> hey Mirv! how were your holidays? (welcome back ;))
[06:22] <czajkowski> aloha
[06:24] <didrocks> hey czajkowski, how are you?
[06:30] <Mirv> didrocks: thanks! :) excellent, as to be expected.
[06:30] <didrocks> Mirv: did you travel a little bit or stayed at home?
[06:30] <Mirv> didrocks: traveled domestically and met friends, not that much staying at home
[06:31] <Mirv> didrocks: some generic otto/lxc problems around I think? (trying to decipher logs)
[06:31] <didrocks> Mirv: it's weird, indeed, first time I'm seeing that, I'll let you know :)
[06:32] <didrocks> Mirv: once that's settled back, do you mind taking (apart from Mir that I'm dealing with those days) sil2100's stacks?
[06:32] <Mirv> didrocks: ok, sil2100's other stacks were qa, misc, oif, unity
[06:32] <didrocks> Mirv: exactly, thanks! :)
[06:33] <didrocks> Mirv: I'll tell you about the otto's issue (will have a look in ~30 minutes), and will catch up with you on what I had to do on the Qt side due to signon
[06:33] <didrocks> meanwhile, you still have time to go through all emails, good luck! ;)
[06:34] <czajkowski> didrocks: good running saucy on my new laptop :)
[06:34] <didrocks> czajkowski: sweet :)
[06:34] <czajkowski> yeah looks good, few bugs on install but nothing bad
[06:34] <czajkowski> using it as main work machine :)
[06:39] <didrocks> great ;)
[06:40] <czajkowski> few compiz crahes and U1 being odd, but overall happy
[06:40] <czajkowski> except can you explain the scopes :)
[06:40] <czajkowski> I searched for chromium and assumed it'd show up even though not installed
[06:40] <czajkowski> and nothing even nder applications
[06:43] <didrocks> hum, it should be under applications
[06:43] <didrocks> otherwise, that's a bug
[06:44] <didrocks> (that part didn't change)
[06:44] <czajkowski> filed a bug :)
[06:44] <didrocks> thx!
[06:44] <czajkowski> even had Laney in front of me checking it
[06:45] <czajkowski> didrocks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1196051
[06:45] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1196051 in unity (Ubuntu) "smart scope does not return uninstalled suggestions" [Undecided,New]
[06:46] <didrocks> czajkowski: thanks, I'll let mhr3 knows
[06:46] <czajkowski> np
[06:46] <czajkowski> right off to europython toodles
[07:13] <didrocks> salut jibel, ça va?
[07:13] <jibel> Salut didrocks , ça va et toi?
[07:13] <darkxst> hey didrocks
[07:14] <didrocks> jibel: ça va, week-end chargé, mais première semaine + "normale" maintenant :)
[07:14] <didrocks> hey darkxst!
[07:15] <jibel> didrocks, some stacks (media, unity) are stuck since yesterday apparently
[07:16] <didrocks> jibel: they are not anymore, the platform stacks blocked waiting on powerpc, I'm unsure why though
[07:34] <darkxst> seb128, know anyone with a wacom?
[07:35] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:35] <RAOF> seb128: Good morning!
[07:35] <seb128> darkxst, no
[07:35] <seb128> RAOF, hey, how are you?
[07:36] <darkxst> seb128, ok, wacom panel builds ok, but I can't actually test it
[07:36] <RAOF> seb128: I be fne.
[07:36] <RAOF> Or even fine.
[07:37] <seb128> RAOF, ;-)
[07:37] <darkxst> seb128, that is when mixing g-s-d 3.8
[07:37] <seb128> darkxst, ok, maybe do a call for testing on the desktop list?
[07:37] <seb128> RAOF, did you have a chance to test the new xorg?
[07:38] <RAOF> seb128: Indeed I did. There's one xmir-related crash on my intel/ati hybrid, but apart from that there's no blockers for 1.14
[07:44] <seb128> RAOF, ok, is that issue new with the xorg update? we should probably wait to have it fixed before landing the update if that's the case... did you file a bug about it or let mlankhorst know?
[07:44] <RAOF> seb128: It's a bug in my patches for -ati, or at least a new interaction between them.
[07:45] <RAOF> I've pinged mlankhorst; you should be able to go ahead with the 1.14 rollout shortly, though.
[07:46]  * RAOF
[07:46]  * RAOF → Zoë bath
[07:47] <seb128> RAOF, ok, thanks
[07:47] <seb128> RAOF, have fun with the baby bath ;-)
[07:57] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:02] <Laney> morning
[08:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson, Laney: hey, how are you? had a good w.e?
[08:08] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, Laney!
[08:08] <Laney> hey seb128, good thank you - very busy with going to london and then outdoors climbing yesterday
[08:08] <Laney> hey didrocks
[08:08] <Laney> good weekends too?
[08:08] <seb128> oh, you went to London?
[08:09] <Laney> yeah for an event that czajkowski organised
[08:09] <Laney> was fun
[08:09] <didrocks> Laney: quite a good one, yeah, just married (civil part) :)
[08:09] <Laney> AlanBell demoed installing saucy with a screen reader ;-)
[08:09] <Laney> ...which could be smoother
[08:09] <Laney> didrocks: ah wow, congrats!
[08:10] <Laney> when's the party part? :P
[08:10] <czajkowski> Laney: by smoother you do mean you want to mute it also!
[08:10] <didrocks> Laney: well, after the religious one (but in october) :)
[08:10] <Laney> ah, cool
[08:10] <didrocks> and thanks :)
[08:11] <Laney> (btw gsettings-qt autolanding is a bit crazy atm :P)
[08:11] <czajkowski> didrocks: you got married at the weekend? congrats!!
[08:11] <didrocks> czajkowski: thanks :)
[08:11] <Laney> :D
[08:11] <didrocks> Laney: it's because the whitelist wasn't asked to be updated
[08:12] <didrocks> Laney: you know the last part: <build-publish> -> copy to distro
[08:12] <didrocks> there is a whitelist barrier
[08:12] <didrocks> and it needs to be refreshed when we add components
[08:12] <didrocks> as per the FAQ ;)
[08:12] <didrocks> and it wasn't done, so latest trunk -> not in distro
[08:12] <didrocks> and so daily
[08:12] <Laney> KENNNNNNNNNN!
[08:12] <didrocks> yep :)
[08:13] <didrocks> he asked me this night to update it
[08:13] <Laney> ah cool
[08:13] <didrocks> I've done it, hence the landing today (as the whitelist is refreshed)
[08:13]  * Laney checks distro
[08:13] <Laney> indeed it is
[08:15] <Laney> czajkowski: how's florence?
[08:15] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128, didrocks, Laney
[08:15] <Laney> ahoy thar
[08:15] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'm not too bad thanks. did some tidying in our garden
[08:15] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[08:16] <chrisccoulson> i'm pretty annoyed about mozilla bug 888840
[08:16] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[08:16] <ubot2`> Mozilla bug 888840 in General "Unable to access crash reports from Ubuntu builds of Firefox beta" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=888840
[08:16] <czajkowski> Laney: rather warm :) but lovely
[08:16] <chrisccoulson> pitti, is there anything that needs to happen to make apport retrace firefox crashes correctly?
[08:17] <czajkowski> altough my flight yesterday wasn an ordeal I do not want to relive, it was over booked, and needed people to get off the plane and people needed to get to Florence, waited 90+ mins security called as people got a bit cranky.
[08:17] <czajkowski> also forgot how much eastern europeans smoke so much, many of the evnet is outdoors and lots of smoking feels very odd
[08:18] <Laney> yeah you quickly get used to its absence
[08:18] <czajkowski> I have however spent the last 15 mins showing off Ubuntu on the new sexy beast laptop :) and no crashes!
[08:18] <Laney> woo
[08:18] <pitti> chrisccoulson: not sure, it's supposed to work already, provided that the debug symbols work
[08:19] <Laney> hey pitti, how's it going?
[08:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti, bug 1195685 didn't seem to work
[08:19] <chrisccoulson> i think there's another one from the weekend too but i can't find it now
[08:19] <AlanBell> Laney: yeah, I will probably go through the screen reader install slowly and report all the bugs again
[08:20] <czajkowski> AlanBell: slowly, surely you dont want more torture!
[08:20] <Laney> AlanBell: Do we have any manual tests for that on e.g. the iso tracker?
[08:20] <AlanBell> yeah, I wrote some, I will go find it . . .
[08:20] <pitti> hey Laney; great, thanks; and you?
[08:21] <Laney> ah yes, as run-once
[08:21] <Laney> pitti: good! My trip bouldering outdoors has reminded me of the importance of regular training :P
[08:21] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, no error messages in the retracer log either :/
[08:22] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I keep the tab open and will try locally
[08:22] <chrisccoulson> :(
[08:22] <chrisccoulson> pitti, thanks
[08:23] <chrisccoulson> pitti, 1 more thing - would there be anything preventing the most recent pkg-create-dbgsyms from working on other releases? (ie, if i were to use it in my PPA's for everything back to precise in order to save some space)
[08:23] <AlanBell> Laney: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1309/info
[08:23] <Laney> yeah, found it
[08:24] <seb128> pitti, hey
[08:24] <pitti> chrisccoulson: no, should be fine to backport to any ubuntu release
[08:24] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:24] <chrisccoulson> pitti, excellent, thanks
[08:25] <AlanBell> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/270/builds/47791/testcases/1309/results is in fact the place to report results I think
[08:25] <Laney> well, it only tests that the procedure works - not really about the quality of the experience
[08:25] <AlanBell> first things first
[08:25] <Laney> pitti: so ... I was hoping you'd know about this
[08:26] <Laney> Quite often when I boot my laptop the permissions on /run/user/blah/pulse are wrong - it gets root:root.
[08:26] <Laney> is that a known bug and if not where do you think the blame might lie? :-)
[08:27] <AlanBell> czajkowski: the voice quality can be significantly improved by plugging in a different speech synthesizer but the one that fits on the disk does multiple languages and can be speeded up a lot which regular users like
[08:28] <pitti> Laney: hm, never heard about it so far; the dir has a "pid" file, does that actually point to a pulse daemon which belongs to root?
[08:28] <czajkowski> AlanBell: nods
[08:28] <AlanBell> it is also possible to redirect the output to a text file rather than a synth, I might do that to get a transcript of the install process
[08:28] <pitti> Laney: and all other files in /run/user/1000 have correct owner?
[08:29] <Laney> I don't think a daemon was running
[08:29] <Laney> let me restart and see if it happens again, one second
[08:35] <Laney> grr, can't repro it
[08:37] <Laney> oh well, I'll keep an eye out
[08:37] <czajkowski> where do I go again to get my workspaces back :(
[08:38] <Laney> appearance
[08:38] <pitti> Laney: perhaps something started pulseaudio through sudo?
[08:38] <Laney> pitti: can't think what I would have done like that... it happened two or three times
[08:38]  * czajkowski hugs Laney
[08:38] <czajkowski> thank you
[08:46] <seb128> Mirv, hey, welcome back!
[08:47] <seb128> Mirv, do you plan to land qtsystems to saucy soon? ;-) (we need it for system settings)
[08:48] <czajkowski> every tie I read Mirv I read it as Mir
[08:48] <czajkowski> *time
[08:49] <seb128> ;-)
[08:50] <Laney> I lost clock and battery in indicator-applet
[08:50]  * Laney reports
[08:53] <xnox> Laney: my laptop "lost" battery indicator sometime in raring.
[08:53] <Laney> well I get it in a (unity) guest session
[08:53] <xnox> awesome
[08:54] <Laney> but whatever update I did towards the end of last week broke it in indicator-applet :-)
[09:00] <seb128> Laney, I doubt anyone will want to port indicator-applet to gmenumodel based indicators
[09:00] <seb128> well, anyone in our indicator team
[09:00] <seb128> maybe community will pick it up
[09:01] <seb128> it broke those in unity-greeter though, which we probably need to pick (and ubiquity might be in a similar case)
[09:01] <seb128> need to ping larsu about that when he gets online
[09:03] <Laney> seb128: I guess not
[09:03] <Mirv> seb128: hi, thanks! yes, that's the next one after I get qtfeedback in first. I know systems is wanted as well,
[09:04] <seb128> Mirv, ok, great, thanks (I've been using the ppa version and it works fine for me ;-)
[09:08] <xnox> seb128: hmm.... is there a mail or something to read about gmenumodel based indicators?
[09:10] <seb128> xnox, not sure, https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/libindicator/add-indicator-ng/+merge/143934 probably has some details
[09:10] <seb128> better to ask larsu when he's around later
[09:10] <seb128> xnox, https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1mNHOaBJVKRxqRcUkT0vvF5_1H-wG_IM8IQGxoPSXk-M/edit as well
[09:11] <xnox> seb128: thanks. enough details for now =)
[09:11] <seb128> xnox, I guess if that was in the perspective of porting ubiquity, https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/unity/support-indicator-ng/+merge/149136 is better
[09:11] <seb128> that's the unity-panel-service support, and it's small
[09:12] <seb128> in fact seems like the protocol is fine, what is changing is just how they get listed/loaded
[09:15]  * larsu can't sleep :-/
[09:15] <larsu> seb128: morning
[09:16] <seb128> larsu, hey, you should be sleeping!
[09:16] <larsu> seb128: ya, doesn't work for some reason...
[09:16] <seb128> larsu, happy monday
[09:16] <seb128> get some tea ;-)
[09:16] <larsu> so I guess I'll just do what pitti does usually and get up now
[09:16] <pitti> hey larsu
[09:16] <larsu> seb128: happy canada day! ;)
[09:16] <seb128> ;-)
[09:17] <larsu> pitti: hi! wie geht's?
[09:17] <pitti> larsu: prima, danke! und Dir? (abgesehen von Insomnia..)
[09:17] <larsu> pitti: pretty good as well. Visited Niagara on the weekend
[09:17] <seb128> oh, nice
[09:18] <seb128> is that as impressive to see that it looks like it would on TV? ;-)
[09:18] <larsu> more impressive :)
[09:18] <larsu> it really is very cool
[09:18] <seb128> great ;-)
[09:18] <pitti> niice
[09:18] <larsu> but the city is very touristy
[09:19]  * larsu got to change the lights shining on the falls
[09:19] <larsu> I met a guy in Toronto who introduced me to the guys operating them
[09:19] <seb128> lol, I was trying to figure out the joke there :p
[09:20] <seb128> you actually did change the lights then ;-)
[09:20] <larsu> ya
[09:20] <larsu> it was pretty cool
[09:20] <seb128> sounds like a great w.e trip
[09:20]  * seb128 is a bit jealous
[09:20] <larsu> :)
[09:21] <larsu> I'm moving back on the weekend btw
[09:21] <larsu> makes me a bit sad...
[09:21] <seb128> oh, already, I though you would come back around the end of the month
[09:21] <seb128> are you going to Berlin?
[09:21] <larsu> yep
[09:22] <seb128> seems like your body is already putting you back on local time :p
[09:23] <larsu> haha, projected jet lag!
[09:23] <larsu> seb128: so I found that indicator-session bug last night...
[09:23] <seb128> larsu, I saw that, I approved your MR this morning, great work!
[09:24] <seb128> dholbach seems to have confirmed that the fix works for him
[09:24] <larsu> it's really neat, leaking a couple of thousand objects, each connecting to a single notify signal
[09:24] <seb128> I somewhat don't get the bug here, not sure why
[09:24] <larsu> ah, I see
[09:24] <didrocks> larsu: thanks for filing my swap this morning btw :)
[09:24] <larsu> seb128: change your real name a couple of times, you'lll get it ;)
[09:24] <didrocks> it needed to be checked that it's still working :p
[09:24] <larsu> didrocks: lol, not my bug ;)
[09:24] <seb128> larsu, well I doubt you guys changed your name and a bunch of you ran into it... ;-)
[09:25] <seb128> well, I just got lucky I guess
[09:25] <didrocks> larsu: you can still call it a benchmark, or robustness testing :p
[09:26] <larsu> seb128: it happens when anything in accountsservice changes. I'm guessing the new accountsservice notifies more often or about more things, otherwise we'd have seen this bug much sooner
[09:26] <larsu> didrocks: lol
[09:26] <seb128> right
[09:27] <larsu> anyway, it's good that it's fixed, even though that code will be replaced
[09:27] <seb128> larsu, new accountsservice keeps track/publish a login "journal"
[09:27] <larsu> interesting
[09:27] <larsu> does it expose that through the properties of a user object?
[09:27] <seb128> the GNOME guys show an history of users login in the control-center with it
[09:28] <seb128> larsu: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/accountsservice/commit/?id=a30ac649fb83de8b1706d1b8bf4cee193c81b706
[09:28] <seb128> larsu, seems so yes
[09:28] <larsu> yep, looks like it
[09:28] <larsu> but this probably only changes when logging in, right
[09:29] <seb128> well anyway, you found and fixed the leak
[09:29] <seb128> so all good ;-)
[09:29] <larsu> yep :)
[09:29] <larsu> this gets auto-released, right?
[09:29] <larsu> (once it merges)
[09:29] <seb128> larsu, btw, not sure if you read backlog, we need indicator-ng support in unity-greeter
[09:29] <larsu> I know
[09:29] <seb128> larsu, yes, didrocks is already on it
[09:30] <larsu> the new indicators landed too early
[09:30] <larsu> is there anyone scheduled to work on the greeter?
[09:30] <larsu> if not, I can do it today
[09:30] <larsu> probably less than a day's work
[09:30] <seb128> if you could that would be nice
[09:30] <seb128> mterry is working on the phablet greeter nowadays
[09:31] <seb128> I don't think anyone is still working on unity-greeter for desktop
[09:31] <larsu> no problem, will do
[09:32] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[09:32] <xnox> seb128: and in addition to "[calendar]" in the datetime-indicator, is it also noticed that indicators are now out-of-order with date-time left-most instead of second from the right?
[09:33] <seb128> xnox, there is a merge request up waiting to be reviewed to fix that
[09:33] <xnox> cool.
[09:33] <seb128> xnox, but it needed changes to libindicator first then the unity side, we just went for the easy fix on friday
[09:34] <larsu> xnox: sorry about all of that. The new indicator branches landed without anyone testing them (or asking me...)
[09:34] <seb128> xnox, [calendar] should be fixed with the unity update from friday, restart unity-panel-service
[09:35] <xnox> larsu: next time leave a broken unit test ;-)
[09:36] <larsu> heh
[09:59] <Laney> larsu: btw, my gsettings-qt breakage was caused by using 5.1.0 packages from ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-beta-proper
[09:59] <Laney> totally forgot I even had that ...
[10:02] <larsu> Laney: good to know. I hope that patch makes it into a release soon, there seem to be quite a few ppas that don't have it floating around...
[10:02] <Laney> I don't even know why I wanted the PPA so just got rid of it now :-)
[10:09] <seb128> didrocks, do you know if there an issue with the merger? I find it weird that the indicator-session mr didn't get jenkins/merger comments yet, when the indicator-power one that was approved after it got merged since
[10:09] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, no idea, I find it weird too
[10:09] <didrocks> seb128: sometimes, I had to ping mmrazik
[10:09] <seb128> who would know? fginther?
[10:09] <didrocks> yep, fghinter now
[10:10] <seb128> fginther, hey, can you help with merge weirdnesses?
[10:17] <seb128> larsu, hum, either your ordering fix doesn't work or I did something wrong (I built libindicator from trunk and applied to a local build of http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~larsu/unity/call-ido-init/revision/3389 and run that unity-panel-service)
[10:17] <seb128> larsu, with that I still get the power and datetime on the left
[10:18] <larsu> seb128: so about that... the ordering fix only works for gmenuified indicators that have a "Position=NN" line in their indicator file
[10:19] <seb128> so until we port everything to gmenu the order is going to be wrong?
[10:19] <larsu> yes, but it would be a trivial patches to the old indicators to make them appear right
[10:19] <larsu> I can do that if you feel strongly about it
[10:20] <larsu> in fact, I might because _I_ am annoyed by it :)
[10:24] <seb128> larsu, it breaks muscle memory, I guess I might get used to it by the time it's changed back to be the right order :p
[10:25] <larsu> seb128: haha :D
[10:44] <didrocks> Mirv: just keeping you up to date, there are some unknown lxc/permission issues, we are still working with jibel on it and investigating
[10:44] <didrocks> (already fixed a change in lightdm impacting us)
[10:44] <didrocks> Mirv: so, please, work on the Qt side of things right now until otto is up again
[10:45] <didrocks> look at saucy-changes and the upload I've done to unblock the webcreds stack (I didn't backport everything on purpose to trunk when they diverged)
[10:48] <seb128> didrocks, should I just upload manually the indicator-session fix maybe so we don't overload's saucy boxes with dbus spam and high memory usage?
[10:48] <didrocks> seb128: I think it's the saner approach (and so please backport the changelog :))
[10:48] <seb128> didrocks, will do, thanks
[10:48] <didrocks> seb128: thanks to you :)
[11:04] <Mirv> didrocks: ok, thanks
[11:05] <ogra_> qengho_, did you see bug 1196019
[11:05] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1196019 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "Chromium crashes with the error "Illegal instruction (core dumped)" with the newest apt-get version on Toshiba AC100, lubuntu 13.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196019
[11:14] <pitti> err..
[11:14] <pitti>  2282 martin    20   0 2518m 1,9g 2168 R  97,9 52,8  19:20.50 indicator-sessi
[11:14] <pitti> that's the second time for me that indicator-session goes crazy, uses 100% CPU and eats up RAM
[11:15] <Laney> I guess that's what seb128 was just talking about?
[11:15] <seb128> pitti, cf backlog from 12:48
[11:15] <pitti> ah, very likely, thanks
[11:15] <seb128> pitti, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-session/12.10.5daily13.06.19-0ubuntu2
[11:15] <seb128> grab the deb and restart the service
[11:17] <pitti> done, merci
[11:17] <seb128> de rien
[11:19] <Laney> can you use dbus from qml directly or is that a C++y thing?
[11:20] <seb128> Laney, I don't think you can no :/
[11:21] <Laney> mmm
[11:21] <Mirv> didrocks: FYI u1db-qt would be wanted to saucy / daily release, I think it hasn't yet been on our radar
[11:22] <Mirv> or well, no updates in 1.5 months, but an upload at least
[12:14] <didrocks> Mirv: I'm not sure the u1 team is following our daily release process, mind checking with them if they want it? (and if so, sanitazing the package?)
[12:26] <Mirv> didrocks: yeah, I'll contact them
[12:26] <didrocks> thanks!
[12:27] <didrocks> Mirv: FYI, the otto issue is an lxc kernel regression on saucy, we downgraded it and now running the tests
[12:27] <didrocks> Mirv: then, I'll give you back the control for packaging review and publishing :)
[12:29] <Mirv> ok, sounds good, or not good that a regression slipped in but otherwise
[12:30] <didrocks> Mirv: well, still good that it's workarounded already and we are unblocked :)
[12:30] <didrocks> QA tests successfully passed and published
[12:30] <didrocks> running platform now
[12:35] <didrocks> Mirv: we can force the publication in the platform stack, the failing tests are issues that are fixed in latest unity autopilot tests (but not published yet)
[12:35] <didrocks> Mirv: timing issues only impacting one machine
[12:35] <didrocks> so running platform once, without "force" mode
[12:35] <didrocks> to see if we have packaging changes
[12:36] <didrocks> and running the sdk stack at the same time
[12:39] <didrocks> platform published
[12:41] <larsu> seb128: thanks for backporting that indicator-session fix so quickly!
[12:41] <didrocks> Mirv: so, a lot of tests failures (10 on each config), I let you dealing that with the sdk guys?
[12:41] <seb128> larsu, thank for the quick fixing! ;-)
[12:42] <didrocks> seb128: are all changelogs backported to trunk? I want to try a rebuild for indicators and unity
[12:42] <seb128> larsu, I'm trying to keep saucy users happy, it makes things harder for everybody when people are reluctant to run the current distro because it's known to be buggy
[12:42] <seb128> didrocks, they all have MR pendings, indicator-session seems to not get along with jenkins/merger though
[12:42] <seb128> didrocks, fginther didn't ping me back yet
[12:43] <didrocks> seb128: the others are approved or do you need a silly approval? :)
[12:43] <larsu> seb128: right, that was my motivation for fixing it last night
[12:43] <seb128> didrocks, they are approved, but see e.g https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/indicator-session/backport-manual-upload/+merge/172306
[12:43] <seb128> didrocks, it's "sitting there", no jenkins/no merge
[12:43] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, those should be fastracked…
[12:43] <didrocks> I saw some people mentionning jenkins issues as well
[12:43] <seb128> gra, on this one larsu didn't change the mr status
[12:44] <didrocks> (no issues for dailies though)
[12:44] <seb128> but it will block anyway since the pre-required branch is not merged yet
[12:44] <didrocks> larsu: !!
[12:44] <Mirv> didrocks: ok, getting someone to look at those
[12:44] <didrocks> Mirv: thx ;)
[12:45] <larsu> seb128: jenkins hadn't run through yet
[12:45] <larsu> should I change now?
[12:45] <didrocks> larsu: pfff, you are sooooo late :p
[12:45] <seb128> larsu, it still didn't run through your fix from yesterday, not sure what's wrong there...
[12:45] <larsu> didrocks: haha, "Approved by: Didier Roche 54 seconds ago"
[12:46]  * larsu is too tired to act fast :P
[12:57] <didrocks> Mirv: do you mind telling me if we can publish the apps stack? all tests pass but as the sdk one failed to pass tests (if we can publish it without latest sdk)
[13:03] <Mirv> didrocks: looks good, none of the apps changes depend on the Friday's changes in sdk
[13:04] <seb128> Mirv, does https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/ubuntu/saucy/qtbase-opensource-src/merge/+merge/172053 looks fine to you?
[13:04] <didrocks> Mirv: thanks, publishing then!
[13:06] <didrocks> seb128: for the unity changelog, I propose that we merge it manually so that we can ask for rebuilding it, do you have the MP link handy?
[13:06] <didrocks> seb128: (and if so, please just bzr merge, commit and bzr push if you can)
[13:07] <seb128> didrocks, what do you mean?
[13:07] <seb128> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/unity/call-ido-init/+merge/172127 is the mr
[13:07] <seb128> didrocks, but just merging the changelog would not be good, we can't land an update without the fix or we will break indicators again
[13:08] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, I meant, merging that manually would help to rebuild unity and land those if the MP is good
[13:08] <didrocks> hum, I though mhr3 would give it a look when I asked for it
[13:08] <seb128> why does it help?
[13:08] <didrocks> not the case yet…
[13:08] <seb128> right...
[13:09] <didrocks> seb128: to rebuild the unity and run the tests to know where we are at with the full stack
[13:09] <seb128> well, do you need the changelog merged for that?
[13:09] <seb128> you can't publish but you can run tests no?
[13:09] <didrocks> seb128: no, it's not even pushing to the ppa
[13:09] <seb128> well, I'm happy to send a MR back if that helps
[13:10] <didrocks> on purpose, to ensure we have "latest"
[13:10] <czajkowski> eh folks I'm trying to take screen caputures of the desktop and running into an issue, where the imiage appears BLACK. http://ubuntuone.com/7O3TkA30qqPqqQBNwgXQE4
[13:10] <didrocks> (latest that is published)
[13:10] <seb128> czajkowski, do you change your number of screens? (like dock/undock a laptop)?
[13:10] <czajkowski> You cna hear the camera shutter noise taking the picture, but it appears as a black screen. the image is black also
[13:10] <czajkowski> seb128: nope don't dock it
[13:10] <seb128> didrocks, ok, let me send a mr for the changelog
[13:11] <didrocks> seb128: thanks, but anyway, as you told, we need larsu's fix…
[13:11] <seb128> didrocks, with the understand we need mhr3 or somebody else to ack lars' fix before we publish to distro
[13:11] <didrocks> yep :/
[13:11] <seb128> didrocks, I'm pondering just acking it myself
[13:11] <seb128> I tested it locally
[13:11] <didrocks> seb128: just made your branch dep on his one
[13:11] <seb128> it works fine
[13:11] <didrocks> seb128: I'm fine with this :)
[13:11] <seb128> I'm running it since this morning
[13:11] <seb128> ok, let's do that
[13:12] <seb128> if somebody has a followup review comment they can fix with another mr
[13:12] <didrocks> exactly
[13:12] <didrocks> that will enable me to rerun indicators tests in a good shape
[13:12] <didrocks> (as latest unity-autopilot isn't the one with sil2100's fixes)
[13:22] <Mirv> seb128: I've checked it now, it looks good. mitya57 is doing a good job on those and I'd hoped to resync with Debian anyway.
[13:22] <seb128> Mirv, great, thanks, I will sponsor this one then
[13:22] <seb128> Mirv, he also submitted https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/ubuntu/saucy/qtdeclarative-opensource-src/merge/+merge/172054 and https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/ubuntu/saucy/qtwebkit-opensource-src/merge/+merge/172094
[13:24] <didrocks> Mirv: thanks for looking at the spreadsheet! :)
[13:24] <seb128> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/unity/backport-manual-upload/+merge/172334
[13:24] <didrocks> Mirv: regarding qtwebkit, it seems it's blocked in proposed
[13:24] <didrocks> Mirv: and I didn't backport IIRC that to trunk as I wanted to wait for your ack
[13:24] <didrocks> so, please, feel free to backport it :)
[13:25] <didrocks> we needed that to have the webcreds stack transitionning and qtwebkit temporarly in main for it
[13:25] <didrocks> seb128: approved, thanks
[13:25] <Mirv> didrocks: ok, thanks!
[13:26] <didrocks> Mirv: I think there is just https://bugs.launchpad.net/qt/+bug/1171553 to look at
[13:26] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1171553 in qtwebkit-opensource-src (Ubuntu) "Invalid dependencies in pkg-config files" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[13:26] <seb128> didrocks, thank you
[13:26] <didrocks> so not sure if you want to wait for 5.1
[13:26] <didrocks> seb128: yw :)
[13:26] <didrocks> (I think that's fine to wait for it)
[13:27] <seb128> didrocks, #sdk is randomly ranting about the commit message thing, can you just put it back your "use the description as commit message" so we are done with arguing over that? ;-)
[13:28] <seb128> I think nobody out of thumper really liked it this way
[13:28] <seb128> didrocks, want a bug report about it?
[13:29] <didrocks> seb128: I think it's something to ask fginther about, not me :)
[13:29] <didrocks> seb128: it's not my upstream merger anymore
[13:29] <didrocks> but I would join the rant :p
[13:29] <seb128> didrocks, if we ever heard back from fginther :p
[13:30] <didrocks> "if" ;)
[13:31] <didrocks> Francis Ginther - National Holiday
[13:31] <didrocks> I think we won't heard about him
[13:32] <seb128> ok
[13:33] <seb128> I'm glad I manually uploaded indicator-session :p
[13:33] <didrocks> :)
[13:33] <didrocks> well, that's why daily release needed to learn to handle those, giving priority to distro
[13:33] <seb128> do we have a fallback contact for when fginther is away?
[13:34] <didrocks> vrruiz I guess
[13:34] <didrocks> maybe try with him?
[13:40] <czajkowski> seb128: do you think it may be down to me using workspaces?
[13:40] <czajkowski> It was working but just ran some updates.
[13:40] <seb128> czajkowski, that would be weird
[13:40] <seb128> I had issues like that going away after a session restart
[13:40] <czajkowski> I mean it's a clean install on saturday, I took some screne captures and today I canot
[13:40] <czajkowski> ok I'l restart
[13:40] <czajkowski> brb
[13:41] <seb128> I blamed xorg/docking
[13:43] <czajkowski> back working now
[13:43] <czajkowski> bloody odd
[13:53] <qengho_> ogra_: Got it.  Interesting.
[13:53] <ogra_> looks a bit like the no_neon patch doesnt work
[13:58] <qengho_> ogra_: do you know a way I can run Cr in a Neon-less emulator and test if Neon instructions are run?
[13:59] <ogra_> hm, not really
[13:59] <qengho_> !@#$
[14:02] <ogra_> qengho_, https://wiki.linaro.org/Resources/HowTo/DeterminingCPUFeatures these code snippets  should help to determine if neon is availabel ...
[14:02] <ogra_> for testing, just talk to the #ac100 community
[14:02] <ogra_> many there run ubuntu
[14:03] <ogra_> (just look for HWCAP_NEON, i think pixman also has example code)
[14:06] <desrt> happy canada day!
[14:07] <jbicha> desrt: do you go see fireworks?
[14:07] <desrt> some on saturday and some last night
[14:07] <desrt> but the big ones are tonight
[14:07] <larsu> desrt: 🍁
[14:08] <desrt> larsu: that character didn't make it
[14:08] <larsu> that's U+1F341 MAPLE LEAF
[14:08] <desrt> ah :)
[14:08] <seb128> desrt, happy Canada day to you ;-)
[14:08] <larsu> my font doesn't have it either
[14:08] <desrt> seb128: and to larsu and attente and cyphermox !
[14:08] <desrt> and jasoncwarner_ and robru if they're awake yet
[14:08] <seb128> desrt, larsu got insomnia for Canada day, I guess that's because he's german ;-)
[14:10]  * desrt celebrates with coffee
[14:10] <desrt> i suppose coffee is similar in some ways to insomnia...
[14:10] <desrt> a productive alternative to sleep!
[14:11] <ogra_> seb128, you blame canada instead of brazil vs. spain ?
[14:11] <ogra_> :)
[14:11] <seb128> ;-)
[14:12] <didrocks> happy canada day desrt!
[14:12] <desrt> didrocks: happy not-single day!
[14:13] <didrocks> desrt: ahah, thanks (well, actually, the second already) :)
[14:13] <desrt> right
[14:13]  * desrt thought it was the first full one, but not even this is true
[14:14] <didrocks> desrt: no ;-)
[14:14] <desrt> feel different?
[14:15] <didrocks> desrt: well… not really TBH :-) I think the religious wedding will make a bigger impact with everyone gathered and the party
[14:15] <desrt> you have churches in france?
[14:15]  * desrt boggles
[14:15] <desrt> oh... wait...
[14:15] <didrocks> desrt: I think we had few :p
[14:15]  * desrt remembers seeing at least 2 big ones in paris :)
[14:16] <didrocks> desrt: yeah, I know, it's a little inconvenient, but we all have to go to Paris first, and then, back in Lyon for that part
[14:16] <didrocks> but it's a minor journey :p
[14:16] <didrocks> and a little bit closer than Rome
[14:16] <desrt> well, with the TGV, it's not so bad
[14:16] <didrocks> right ;)
[14:16] <desrt> and if there's only two churches, then there's only two churches
[14:17] <desrt> so is it at notre dame or sacré coeur?
[14:18] <didrocks> we didn't decide yet, you know, there are so few wedding in France that we can decide just the day before
[14:18] <didrocks> you'll receive a sms to know which one you should go :p
[14:18] <desrt> you should pick sacré coeur, then
[14:18] <desrt> it's much prettier
[14:18] <didrocks> yeah, but higher as well
[14:18] <seb128> desrt, and they let you book the place for yourself easily :p
[14:18] <didrocks> not sure I want to exercise on my wedding day
[14:18] <desrt> they have the funicular....
[14:19] <didrocks> indeed, like in Lyon actually
[14:19] <didrocks> interesting, we'll think about it :)
[14:19] <desrt> :)
[14:19] <desrt> larsu: montmarte funicular is a real funicular, for reference
[14:20] <desrt> *montmartre
[14:20] <didrocks> why? is there any fake ones?
[14:20] <desrt> ya.  there's one in montreal with only one car
[14:20] <larsu> didrocks: ya, Montréal
[14:21] <larsu> desrt: they should just rename it to elevator
[14:21] <larsu> (the one on the Olympic Tower)
[14:21] <desrt> uhhh
[14:21] <desrt> i take it back
[14:21] <desrt> it's a fake one now since it was "upgraded"
[14:21] <didrocks> http://www.lyon-photos.com/diaporama/moyenne_64.htm you have this one in Lyon
[14:21] <desrt> it has two cars, but each is under its own power
[14:22] <didrocks> and yes, there are two cars
[14:22] <didrocks> (and no own power, just a cable they change each year)
[14:22] <desrt> since 1991....
[14:23] <desrt> The technology of the funicular is derived from that of standard elevators, which allows each car to function independently, with its own hoist and cables. This allows one car to remain in service if the other must be taken out of service for maintenance. At busy times, both cabins can ascend at the same time (usually, more passengers use the funicular to ascend than to descend).
[14:23] <didrocks> this is how the traction works: http://www.ferro-lyon.net/xmedia/Images/ficelles/Fourviere/Fourviere-08-07-02.jpg :)
[14:23] <desrt> lame :(
[14:23] <didrocks> desrt: yeah, not a real funicular…
[14:23] <desrt> didrocks: so the distinction is this: it's only a true funicular if the cars act as counter-weight to each other
[14:24] <didrocks> and no fun to "we are to cross the other one"
[14:24] <didrocks> desrt: yeah, I got it, and it's the case for this one in Lyon
[14:24] <didrocks> (and you cross in the middle, the way doubles)
[14:25] <didrocks> (eventually to different sides of the way ;))
[14:27] <desrt> quebec city has a fake one as well...
[14:27] <desrt> similar to the montmartre setup
[14:27] <desrt> two cars, each under independent electrical power
[14:35] <didrocks> desrt: I can understand seeing that changing the cable is, for instance, shutting down the funicular for a week in Lyon, and it seems the maintenance costs are high
[14:39] <larsu> mterry: what's the best way to test menubar changes to unity-greeter (desktop)? A nested X session?
[14:39] <mlankhorst> on someone else's computer
[14:39] <mterry> larsu, yeah, or I just often install it and "switch users"
[14:40] <larsu> mterry: yeah I guess that'll do. Thanks :)
[14:42] <seb128> larsu, vms for the win if you like to keep your user session on screen ;-)
[14:43]  * Laney gets DBus -> cpp -> qml working
[14:43] <Laney> It's funny being happy about such simple things :P
[14:44] <larsu> seb128: ah, great idea as well :)
[14:46] <seb128> Laney, oh, great, please share when you are done ;-)
[14:46] <seb128> Laney, I got the cpp stuff working last week (if you saw my -tech emails)
[14:46] <seb128> but I didn't try to dbus for it yet
[14:47] <Laney> I'm not using the codegen thing they have
[14:47] <seb128> codegen?
[14:47] <Laney> seems overkill for the two calls I need (and the tool can't parse the AccountsService interface description)
[14:47] <Laney> yeah they have something which is similar to gdbus-codegen
[14:48] <seb128> oh ok, for dbus
[14:48] <Laney> which is what I was mainly turning up when googling
[14:48] <seb128> I though you were speaking for the cpp plugin
[14:48] <seb128> are you doing a cpp plugin for background? did you copy the one from the example panel?
[14:48] <Laney> not got that far yet
[14:48] <seb128> I was pondering adding stuff to SystemSettings the other day
[14:49] <Laney> I did example with cpp code or whatever in Qt Creator
[14:49] <seb128> but seems it might easier to just have independant plugins for the panel
[14:49] <Laney> yeah I think so
[14:49] <seb128> Laney, ok, I did that and I got bitten by the fact that .qml needs to be one directory bellow the plugin for the import to work
[14:50] <seb128> that took most of my friday afternoon to figure out :/
[14:50] <Laney> yeah I read your posts but found that mangling the import structure to reflect the module hierarchy got it working for me
[14:50] <Laney> so backend/Ubuntu/Example/<code goes here>
[14:50] <Laney> then qmlscene -I backend yourproject/main.qml
[14:51] <desrt> seb128: shutdown/suspend thing check out?
[14:51] <seb128> right, as long as you know to add -I to qmlscene you are good :p
[14:51] <Laney> yes, but that did not work with the structure you get from the template
[14:51] <seb128> Laney, it does, you need to qmlscene -I ..
[14:51] <Laney> hmm
[14:52] <seb128> well, that worked for me at the end
[14:52] <seb128> but I did so much hacking around that maybe I changed other stuff on the way that I don't remember
[14:52] <Laney> well, let's see how easy it is to get it into the system-settings
[14:52] <seb128> Laney, system settings, I would just copy the example plugin from mardy
[14:52] <Laney> it should be quite a simple one just to read BackgroundFile from accountsservice
[14:52] <Laney> yeah will copy that and modify it
[14:52] <seb128> desrt, oh, I forgot ... will try in a bit when I can close my session
[14:53] <didrocks> seb128: @re: one subddir, remember to have loose time with this
[14:53] <didrocks> seb128: we miss debug tools…
[14:54] <Laney> also I phablet-flashed earlier and didn't get The Bug
[14:54] <Laney> that's two reboots in a row!
[14:55] <seb128> didrocks, yeah...
[15:39] <didrocks> kenvandine: hey, around?
[15:39] <kenvandine> hey didrocks
[15:39] <kenvandine> didrocks, oh, i wanted to talk to you about signon
[15:39] <kenvandine> not sure what to do about it...
[15:39] <didrocks> how was your week-end? :)
[15:40] <kenvandine> remember that is the one that has a distro patch for i386 and amd64, but not armhf
[15:40] <didrocks> kenvandine: you don't remember the diff you've done last time?
[15:40] <kenvandine> good week, thanks :)
[15:40] <didrocks> kenvandine: no, it's not that (well, it's related, but not due to it)
[15:40] <kenvandine> that's all i could see...
[15:40] <didrocks> kenvandine: basically, what you need to do is diff trunk and the generated source branch
[15:41] <didrocks> then, if there are diffs that are not in the ignored list and should be, we should update it :)
[15:41] <kenvandine> ok.. no idea what could be different :)
[15:41]  * kenvandine looks for that... i thought it was just that patch
[15:42] <didrocks> remember? this was this: diff -Nrup trunk ../dest-source-tarball | filterdiff --clean -x *po -x *pot -x *locatl-options | lsdiff | grep -v .bzr
[15:42] <didrocks> so I did it this morning
[15:42] <didrocks> and noted that we have .pc files
[15:42] <didrocks> and that's what was triggering the dailies
[15:42] <didrocks> so I upgraded to "grep -Ev .bzr|.pc"
[15:42] <didrocks> added a task case
[15:42] <didrocks> and committed
[15:43] <didrocks> remember that last time it was files that were wrongly created when doing bzr bd -S?
[15:43] <didrocks> (so better that you know where to look at if I'm not around next time ;))
[15:43] <kenvandine> no i don't :)
[15:43] <didrocks> oh! it was 4 months ago :)
[15:44] <didrocks> eat more fish for your memory ;)
[15:44] <kenvandine> hehe
[15:44] <kenvandine> i'm old :)
[15:44] <didrocks> heh
[15:44] <kenvandine> i just ran that command and didn't get anything
[15:44] <didrocks> what did you run exactly?
[15:44] <didrocks> I bzr branch lp:signon
[15:44] <didrocks> bzr bd -S
[15:44] <kenvandine> diff -Naurp ../build-area/signon-8.52+13.10.20130701 .  | filterdiff --clean -x *po -x *pot -x *locatl-options | lsdiff | grep -v .bzr
[15:44] <kenvandine> from inside trunk
[15:45] <didrocks> kenvandine: is ../build-area/signon-8.52+13.10.20130701 created with bzr bd -S?
[15:45] <kenvandine> yes
[15:45] <kenvandine> just now
[15:45] <didrocks> not what I had, let me retry
[15:45] <didrocks> kenvandine: you didn't use bzr bd-do for ../build-area/signon-8.52+13.10.20130701?
[15:45] <kenvandine> no
[15:45] <kenvandine> i never use that :)
[15:47] <didrocks> kenvandine: interesting, bzr bd -S --dont-purge gives something different than extracting the tarball :)
[15:47] <didrocks> kenvandine: try to reextract the tarball
[15:47] <didrocks> with dpkg-source -x
[15:47] <didrocks> and diff between trunk with this
[15:47] <didrocks> (as we diff with distro, after downloading the previous source)
[15:48] <didrocks> this time, you should have the .pc files (that dpkg-source does something with apparently :p)
[15:48] <kenvandine> ok, now i get quilt stuff
[15:48] <kenvandine> ./.pc/.quilt_patches
[15:48] <kenvandine> ./.pc/.quilt_series
[15:48] <kenvandine> ./.pc/.version
[15:48] <didrocks> yep :)
[15:49] <kenvandine> so it's that patch :)
[15:49] <didrocks> yeah, indirectly ;)
[15:49] <kenvandine> i don't get that from the bzr bd -S though
[15:49] <didrocks> me neither
[15:49] <kenvandine> weird
[15:49] <didrocks> that's interesting… :)
[15:49] <kenvandine> anyway, so you'll start ignoring the .pc?
[15:49] <didrocks> kenvandine: so http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cupstream2distro-maintainers/cupstream2distro/trunk/revision/332
[15:49] <didrocks> and deployed :)
[15:50] <kenvandine> awesome
[15:50] <kenvandine> thx
[15:50] <didrocks> yw :)
[15:50] <didrocks> kenvandine: something else, the misc start is failing to build
[15:50] <didrocks> due to upstart-launch
[15:50] <didrocks> upstart-app-launch
[15:50] <kenvandine> grrr
[15:50] <didrocks> you are not a stranger to that one, isn't it? :p
[15:51] <kenvandine> i helped ted with the packaging... but that's about it :)
[15:51] <kenvandine> i can look though
[15:51] <seb128> desrt, no suspend on shutdown if I close the lid just after picking the item, so I guess it's the 10 seconds timeout
[15:51] <didrocks> kenvandine: that would be awesome, it's failing on every archs apparently
[15:51] <didrocks> kenvandine: if the fix lands, mind rerunning the stack (just rebuilding that component?)
[15:51] <kenvandine> sure
[15:52] <didrocks>  *** Checking Application Job ***
[15:52] <didrocks> ERROR: version of /sbin/initctl too old
[15:52] <didrocks> it failed for 3 days (saturday to today)
[15:52] <kenvandine> ah, needs newer upstart i guess
[15:52] <didrocks> I doubt that distro was in a mismatch
[15:52] <didrocks> if so, just disable it for now maybe?
[15:52] <didrocks> to not block the full stack?
[15:52] <kenvandine> i blame tedg
[15:52] <didrocks> we all do :)
[15:52] <ogra_> erm
[15:52] <kenvandine> i'll look in a few :)
[15:52] <didrocks> thanks ;)
[15:52] <kenvandine> finishing something else atm :)
[15:53] <ogra_> you never ever want to have initctl executed in a chroot during package builds
[15:53] <didrocks> kenvandine: no hurry, as long as you unblock the stack ;)
[15:53] <didrocks> ogra_: seems that tedg wants that :p
[15:53] <kenvandine> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-system-settings/network_plugins/+merge/172358
[15:54] <ogra_> you cant really ... at least for system upstart jobs we explicitly move initrctl out of the way when creating chroots
[15:54] <ogra_> (i.e. when building images etc)
[15:54] <desrt> seb128: how about if you wait?
[15:54] <desrt> seb128: or did you not upload yet?
[15:54] <seb128> desrt, oh, I did not upload yet
[15:55] <seb128> sorry, I'm still testing on old saucy
[15:55] <desrt> ah.  cool
[15:55] <seb128> kenvandine, lol, I was about to push that .install simplication :p
[15:55] <desrt> so i guess it confirms my theory at least
[15:55] <desrt> which means that the patch should work
[15:55] <seb128> kenvandine, I just built locally with that
[15:55] <ogra_> if you need example code: debian-installer-utils ... grep for initctl.REAl in chroot-setup.sh
[16:46]  * didrocks waves good evening and good night
[16:52] <purezen> Hey guys..! I recently bought a Dell Vostro 5460 with Ubuntu12.04 pre-installed.. Though, I did a fresh install of 12.10 on it.. I face an issue of extremely low sound output from the machine.. something which has not been reported from the Windows running versions.. Please help..!
[16:53] <purezen> Other Linux users of the same have also reported the same issues..
[18:14] <AlanBell> o/ xnox in ubiquity, the dots at the bottom, is that by any chance implemented as a zillion individual progress bar widgits?
[18:49] <qengho_> ogra_: The only way to handle Neon features is by a runtime branch, yes?  There's no different LD path, e.g., look in /usr/lib/armneon-linux-gnueabihf before /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf ?
[18:49] <ogra_> right
[18:49] <ogra_> or alternatively build a -neon binary package (though thats ugly and doubles your buildtime)
[18:51] <qengho_> ogra_: but dpkg has no Neon test, I'm sure. A human still has to know to install.
[18:51] <ogra_> yes, the -neon package would have to be options
[18:51] <ogra_> *optional
[18:54] <qengho_> ogra_: I don't think chromium will be able to support neon soon. Upstream just WontFix'd a bug about neon and Tegra2.
[18:54] <ogra_> we dont want neon enabled at all
[18:54] <ogra_> its a policy
[18:54] <qengho_> ogra_: the most sane result is to disable Neon for all.
[18:55] <ogra_> no packages that use neon by default are allowed in the archive
[18:55] <ogra_> if your app can do runtime detection, feel free to use it, if it cant  you need to leave neon off
[18:57] <qengho_> ogra_: right, I knew we had to support non-neon hardware. I thought we could also support neon features somehow, but I'm discovering it's not possible right now.
[18:57] <ogra_> well, i thought there was a patch fro runtime detection in the package
[18:58] <ogra_> to use hwcaps
[18:58] <qengho_> ogra_: something else broke at compiletime.
[18:58] <ogra_> ah
[18:59] <qengho_> ogra_: upstream added a "neon is optional" flag, but it doesn't do what I expected.
[18:59] <gregier_> hi I am looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-themes/+bug/1171587 and was hoping for some help in getting the CSS fixed
[18:59] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1171587 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "update to GTK 3.9 and the issues to resolve for it" [Wishlist,New]
[19:01] <gregier_> I tried to just apply the same basic change that was done in Adwaita but it just makes it worse
[19:29] <xnox> AlanBell: yes, and there is already a bug about audio description of those.
[19:30] <xnox> AlanBell: if there is an api to supress announcing them in gtk+, I am all ears =)
[19:44] <AlanBell> thanks xnox, I was just trying to figure out where all the announcements were coming from
[19:44] <AlanBell> I have no idea how to surpress them, sorry
[19:47] <xnox> AlanBell: your guess is correct, the dots are progressbars and are announce 0->100% with a generated name "gtkprogressbar2"
[19:47] <xnox> Is compiz under daily release?


[07:17] <LocutusOfBorg> wow lots of disabled builders today...
[07:17] <LocutusOfBorg> and cleaning/stuck...
[07:28] <icey> heya - what's the process to get a new remote bug tracker added to launchpad?
[09:23] <ilasc> LocutusOfBorg: should be fixed now
[09:23] <ilasc> icey: does this help https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/InterBugTracking#lp-plugins ?
[09:27] <icey> ilasc: well, it confirms for me that storyboard isn't supported, but doesn't suggest an approach to add that support (eg: https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2008116)
[09:33] <cjwatson> icey: One writes a bunch of code; not sure what more to say than that :)
[09:34] <icey> cjwatson: any guidance on that? example? wiki page?
[09:35] <icey> cjwatson: not sure I'll ever get the time to do it but more and more OpenStack projects are moving their bug tracking from Launchpad to storyboard so it would be quite nice to get that integrated at some point
[09:35] <cjwatson> icey: The existing support is in lib/lp/bugs/externalbugtracker/
[09:35] <Laney> what does "binaries conflicting with the existing ones" mean when copying? I was trying to demote haveged in groovy and resurrect the previous version but I can't do the copy-back because of that error
[09:35] <Laney> maybe I need to actually remove from groovy-proposed completely
[09:36] <cjwatson> icey: (mostly; there are some bits of bug tracker support elsewhere under lib/lp/bugs/)
[09:37] <icey> cjwatson: i'll take a look
[09:37] <cjwatson> Laney: Did you remember --include-binaries?
[09:37] <icey> (and try to figure out how to launchpad dev :-P )
[09:37] <Laney> cjwatson: yeah
[09:38] <cjwatson> Laney: Deleting won't help
[09:38] <Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mfVyRpxnbh/
[09:40] <cjwatson> Laney: Did you really mean 1.9.1-6ubuntu1 and not 1.9.8-4ubuntu1?
[09:40] <Laney> cjwatson: I did, that's the version that was previously in groovy
[09:40] <Laney> we discovered that 1.9.8 is broken
[09:42] <cjwatson> It's possible this is one of the cases where there's confusion due to changes in the set of architectures to be published
[09:45] <Laney> cjwatson: Oho, --from-suite=focal worked
[09:48] <cjwatson> That's stranger than I was expecting.  But OK
[09:51] <Laney> I thought that I'd try a suite where the binaries are still published, but I still don't understand what the message means :)
[10:01] <cjwatson> Generally speaking it means that the copy doesn't include all the architectures for which binaries already exist in that archive, so when you do the copy it would result in creating fresh builds for those architectures which would conflict with the binaries that already exist.  I don't understand why it's saying that in this case though
[10:03] <cjwatson> icey: in practice, were I doing it, I'd start by using one of the more recently-written external bug trackers as an example (github is the most recent IIRC) and go from there.  Hopefully storyboard has some kind of decent API
[10:06] <icey> cjwatson: storyboard seems to be 100% fancy modern APi based frontend thingy, so I'm hopeful :-P
[10:21] <Laney> ilasc or cjwatson: is https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/4212/+build/19921256 interesting to you or should I just mash the button?
[10:23] <cjwatson> Laney: libreoffice is libreoffice so it may have killed the builder or something (e.g. ENOSPC).  But in such cases, as long as the build farm generally looks operational, there's not much harm in retrying other than using some resources; it won't lose any information that hasn't already been lost
[10:24] <Laney> alright, thanks, I'll bear that in mind
[14:48] <hellsworth> would it be possible to increase the size of my libreoffice ppa? it's such a monster and it would be ideal if this ppa could hold like 5 different builds: https://launchpad.net/~hellsworth/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice/+packages
[14:48] <hellsworth> I am requesting 50G
[14:51] <cjwatson> hellsworth: could you please request it using the support link in the topic?
[14:51] <hellsworth> ah perfect thank you
[14:51] <cjwatson> 50G may be a problem; we have somewhat limited space at the moment and that's a substantial fraction of it
[14:51] <hellsworth> topics are so often ignored..
[14:52] <hellsworth> hmm my ppa is currently 10G.. maybe i could get that to 20G then instead of 50
[14:52] <hellsworth> but request link it is
[14:52] <cjwatson> 50G is about 8% of our remaining space
[14:52] <cjwatson> Hopefully that'll be fixed soonish, but for now ...
[14:52] <hellsworth> when is soonish? :)
[14:52] <cjwatson> Out of our hands, depends on IS
[14:52] <hellsworth> a week? a month?
[14:52] <hellsworth> ok
[14:52] <cjwatson> I expect we can bump your PPA a bit though
[14:54] <cjwatson> hellsworth: It's https://portal.admin.canonical.com/C126718 if you want a peek at the internet ticket
[14:54] <cjwatson> *internal ticket
[14:55] <cjwatson> (Some space has been freed so the situation is a bit less dire than indicated in the latest reply to that ticket)
[14:57] <hellsworth> cjwatson: ok i posted a question to answers.launchpad.net. thanks
[14:59] <cjwatson> cheers
[15:09] <cjwatson> hellsworth: Hm, that PPA seems to be 20G already?  Unless I'm racing with one of my colleagues ...
[15:09] <hellsworth> ah shoot my bad it is 20G.. can i have just a tad bit more please :)
[15:10] <hellsworth> what's an extra 10G between friends :)
[15:10] <cjwatson> hellsworth: Bumped to 32G
[15:10] <hellsworth> :D
[15:10] <hellsworth> thank you so much cjwatson
[15:10] <cjwatson> no trouble
[15:11] <cjwatson> just wanted to make sure I was looking at the right one :)
[15:12] <hellsworth> you were.. i should have looked rather than going off memory
[15:12] <hellsworth> how long does it take to delete things from a ppa?
[15:12] <hellsworth> last i asked it was 10hr. is that still the case?
[15:14] <cjwatson> it sort of depends what you mean; do you mean for purposes of quota calculation?
[15:15] <cjwatson> (deletions from the published archive on disk are much faster than that)
[15:16] <cjwatson> IIRC quota calculation relies on a six-hourly cron job, so it could be anything from minutes to six hours or so depending on where you fall in the cycle
[15:16] <cjwatson> oh for PS5 when we might be able to revamp this ...
[15:17] <hellsworth> oh i mean for deleting build artifacts and tarballs from a ppa.. how long until that space is free for me to push new tarballs and launch a new build to use that newly freed space
[15:18] <cjwatson> hellsworth: if memory serves that's the six-hourly cron job
[15:19] <hellsworth> okey dokey thanks


[06:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- tsimonq2 mitya57 acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3291 Diff missing
[08:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jamespage, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3285 Diff missing (cosmic/networking-ovn, cosmic/neutron-dynamic-routing, cosmic/neutron-fwaas, cosmic/neutron-vpnaas). Failed to build (cosmic/neutron, cosmic/neutron-lbaas). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (cosmic/python-eventlet). Ready to build (cosmic/openvswitch, cosmic/python-os-xenapi)
[09:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jamespage, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3285 Diff missing (cosmic/networking-ovn, cosmic/neutron-dynamic-routing, cosmic/neutron-fwaas, cosmic/neutron-lbaas, cosmic/neutron-vpnaas). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (cosmic/python-eventlet). Pending binary packages (cosmic/neutron). Ready to build (cosmic/openvswitch, cosmic/python-os-xenapi)
[09:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jamespage, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3285 Diff missing (cosmic/networking-ovn, cosmic/neutron, cosmic/neutron-dynamic-routing, cosmic/neutron-fwaas, cosmic/neutron-lbaas, cosmic/neutron-vpnaas). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (cosmic/python-eventlet). Pending binary packages (cosmic/networking-sfc). Ready to build (cosmic/openvswitch, cosmic/python-os-xenapi)
[09:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jamespage, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3285 Dependency wait (cosmic/networking-bgpvpn). Diff missing (cosmic/networking-ovn, cosmic/networking-sfc, cosmic/neutron, cosmic/neutron-dynamic-routing, cosmic/neutron-fwaas, cosmic/neutron-lbaas, cosmic/neutron-vpnaas). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (cosmic/python-eventlet). Ready to build (cosmic/openvswitch, cosmic/python-os-xenapi)
[10:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3296 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[10:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3296 Pending binary packages
[10:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3296 Diff missing
[11:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3297 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[12:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3297 Pending binary packages
[12:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3297 Diff missing
[13:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3297 Diff missing
[21:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jamespage, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3285 Dependency wait (cosmic/networking-bgpvpn). Diff missing (cosmic/networking-ovn, cosmic/networking-sfc, cosmic/neutron-dynamic-routing, cosmic/neutron-fwaas, cosmic/neutron-lbaas, cosmic/neutron-vpnaas). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (cosmic/neutron, cosmic/python-eventlet). Ready to build (cosmic/openvswitch, cosmic/python-os-xenapi)


[14:48] <txomon|home> has anyone done any installation with a mini.iso/netboot ?
[15:33] <MrChrisDruif> txomon|home; when? Anything to note about it?
[15:35] <txomon|home> MrChrisDruif, manual package installation fails, for example: check "Lubntu minimal installation" and "Manual package installation"
[15:35] <txomon|home> and then just press install
[15:35] <txomon|home> g
[15:36] <txomon|home> I dont know if you select manual package installation you can't select anyone more or what
[15:39] <txomon|home> or if you have to exit... I have tried anything that came to my mind... but nothing worked
[15:48] <txomon|home> any idea on how has to be done to make it work MrChrisDruif ?
[15:51] <MrChrisDruif> I might give it a go tonight, but it's not very intuitive
[15:51] <MrChrisDruif> I've made my current installation with the mini-iso
[16:04] <txomon|home> MrChrisDruif, I do all my installations with netboot (cd savings ;D ) but I have to do always the other packages installations when reboot because it crashed all the installation
[16:05] <txomon|home> the idea is, you pick two, one desktop enviroment (like lubuntu minimal installation) and manual package installation, then you press enter
[16:06] <txomon|home> and aptitude prompts, then, you just press g ( or Control-T to go to menu), then you select to install selected packages
[16:06] <txomon|home> and it starts doing it
[16:06] <txomon|home> and then fails
[16:16] <MrChrisDruif> I think I only installed the core and from the core started installing desktop etc


[07:03] <greg-g> We're good net citizens: https://isbgpsafeyet.com/
[07:06] <Scary_Guy> Fun
[16:00] <greg-g> heh: https://iscloudflaresafeyet.com/


[11:50] <penguin42> hmm, the house alarm clock has fixed itself, I'm fairly sure it was still wrong when I went to bed after the flip;   but then I seem to have had to do the heating clock which I thought did it automatically; sigh
[12:10] <zxmpi> changed my dumb nokia. should be it
[20:19] <daftykins> i do enjoy having something 'dumb' that serves as a reference point :D
[20:24] <zxmpi> sadly with the switching off of 3g network my dumb nokia no longer has a web browser. so no more rss or browsing. i got a new 4g nokia dumb phone but seems since 2020 they no longer run unapproved java apps. only the ones nokia allows
[20:25] <daftykins> :( that's a shame
[20:25] <zxmpi> so looking for a new dumb phone with java support and 4g and internet browser
[20:25] <daftykins> i understand that such a model would only be useful if a network supports VoLTE, which i don't think they do over here
[20:25] <daftykins> i've always seen handsets drop data from LTE to HSPA/UMTS (3G tiers) when a voice call is in progress
[20:26] <zxmpi> it's bloody infuriating as there are java apps installed and you can download a few from store but not the ones i want
[20:26] <penguin42> zxmpi: Maybe https://www.doro.com/en-gb/shop/mobile-devices/easy-phones/doro-6820/ ?
[20:26] <zxmpi> so no ereader, micro spreadsheet, memo pad, games
[20:27] <penguin42> oh, no browser etc on it
[20:28] <zxmpi> i did look at a few dors and left a question on their site asking. but looking at the manual for that there is no mention of a web browser which is kinda a blue m&m for a good dumb phone
[20:28] <zxmpi> *few doros
[20:29] <penguin42> there's not many, otherwise you could look at a few Doros more...
[20:31] <zxmpi> can do quite a bit on a 3310 https://mastodon.ie/@zxm/111008086805290628


[09:08] <kaisoz> hi there
[09:08] <sil2100> Hey
[09:09] <brunch875> hello
[10:49] <applemuncy> Question. What is vivid-preinstalled-touch-armhf.custom.tar.gz  for? How does one use it?
[12:06] <sil2100> applemuncy: hey! That's the default ubuntu custom tarball - custom tarballs carry additional apps outside of the rootfs, making it possible to customize certain devices by them offering different apps than others
[12:07] <sil2100> applemuncy: in other words, all our devices have one rootfs but can have different custom tarballs, therefore having different apps preinstalled and some other customizations done
[13:28] <arubislander> Hi all. Can someone point me to some resources as to how to package a new online account plugin provider with my app?
[19:46] <Fragy> hi. How long does it take MX4 Ubuntu to load recovery mode?
[20:10] <Fragy> I want to flash flyme os but it won't go to recovery mode
[23:31] <Acou_Bass> woohoo i made a key shortcuts set in the terminal for weechat shortcuts
[23:31] <Acou_Bass> fun stuff
[23:41] <Acou_Bass> hidden behind 'active' is also alt+j to jump to a numbered buffer, the rest have their opposites hidden behind them: http://i.imgur.com/b5cLfTM.png


[09:14] <SamuraiAlba> Good bacon to all and to all some good bacon!
[10:29] <rmg51> Morning
[10:55] <JonathanD> Morning.
[11:05] <SamuraiAlba> Where am I, and why am I in this hand basket?
[13:12] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys?, hamsters and everything else
[16:11] <lazyPower> o/
[16:56] <teddy-dbear> \o
[17:36] <pleia2> we're having a rain day here in northern california, I'll stop picking on pennsylvania for their lame snow days (I grew up in maine)
[18:37] <waltman> how much rain does it take to shut down SF?
[18:37]  * waltman notes that it was snowing on my way into work today :)
[18:40] <pleia2> this storm is calling for 1-4 inches in a 12 hour period, plus high winds (up to 50mph)
[18:40] <pleia2> it's a strong storm, but it's still just rain, not even a thunderstorm
[18:40] <waltman> Sounds like your basic garden-variety noreaster
[18:41] <pleia2> worse up north, calling for hurricane force winds in the sierra nevadas
[18:41] <pleia2> so, don't go skiing today :)
[18:41] <waltman> Sounds like an awesome day to go surfing though!
[18:42] <pleia2> looking at 20 ft waves in santa cruz, which is already known for a brutal undertoe, I wouldn't recommended it :)
[18:42]  * waltman will never understand why SF gets so crazy every time you get a little rain
[18:42] <pleia2> poor drainage, so things flood pretty massively, and people don't know how to drive on slick roads
[18:43] <waltman> Oh, and it's currently 36 in Philly. What's the temp in SF?
[18:43] <pleia2> 57
[18:43] <pleia2> normal day
[18:44] <waltman> Aren't you folks in the middle of a big drought?
[18:45] <pleia2> yep, worst in a century
[18:46] <pleia2> it was rainy last week too, so our reservoirs are finally filling up some
[18:46] <pleia2> was getting scary low
[21:59] <MutantTurkey> okay - i really and regretting not ever delving into .net and windows because now that I need a job and everything is C# and ASP.net that