[14:10] <balloons> aloha
[14:10] <balloons> #startmeeting ubuntu QA
[14:10] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 18 14:10:23 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:10] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[14:12] <balloons> who all is about?
[14:12] <phillw> o/
[14:12] <balloons> phillw,  I think this will be short and sweet
[14:12] <phillw> yup :)
[14:12] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
[14:13] <balloons> Next week we'll have the alpha 3 milestone testing. Should be a good week, and the images are in a good state going in to the week. I, knock on wood, don't see us needing a ton of respins
[14:14] <balloons> Because we've reached the point in the cycle where features are landing (yay!), you can expect more testing of applications coming soon. Unity testing will be happening again this cycle among other things
[14:17] <balloons> I also was talking with the u+1 team and the folks running the dev version of ubuntu as there daily machine about expanding the package tracker to help their workflow with triaging problems, bug reports, and watching critical packages
[14:18] <balloons> The basic idea was to hand select some packages, and add some basic smoke testing for them. We'd monitor the versions as they update in the archive and we can keep a status on when things break and what bugs where found, etc
[14:18] <balloons> I hope to show an example and get more feedback soon
[14:18] <balloons> that's it from me
[14:18] <balloons> questions?
[14:18] <phillw> nope
[14:18] <balloons> alright
[14:19] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavors
[14:19] <balloons> so phillw, updates from lubuntu?
[14:19] <phillw> bug 1007394 is still an issue
[14:19] <phillw> currently awaiting one of the ppc testers to try something for the devs.
[14:20] <phillw> lack of firefox in ppc has been fixed.
[14:20] <phillw> nothing else to report, testing is going well on the whole.
[14:24] <balloons> yay!
[14:24] <balloons> browsing on ff is restorede
[14:24] <balloons> did you see the plant article phillw on ppc?
[14:24] <phillw> no, do you have a link?
[14:25] <balloons> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/benmcollins13/ubuntu/~3/-IS64CHats0/community-conundrum-powerpc.html
[14:25] <phillw> thanks
[14:26] <balloons> np.. not sure if you know who Ben is or not
[14:26] <balloons> regardless, his lament is on target
[14:27] <phillw> well, provided their remains a kernel available, lubuntu are pretty committed to have a ppc release.
[14:27] <phillw> *there*
[14:28] <balloons> yep, it's a good thing
[14:28] <balloons> ok, any other flavors about willing to share an update?
[14:28] <phillw> seems like we're the last hope for them.
[14:29] <astraljava> balloons: Not really, I've been really badly out of the loop recently... Sorry.
[14:30] <balloons> astraljava, that's ok -- how's alpha 3 looking for you?
[14:30] <balloons> I know it's hard to believe it's coming already
[14:36] <balloons> alright, so let's finish up
[14:36] <balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
[14:36] <balloons> anything else to discuss anyone?
[14:39] <astraljava> We're supposedly having that discussion today, but I really don't know how Xubuntu is at the moment.
[14:39]  * astraljava frowns
[14:39] <phillw> balloons: I replied to the plant article with a request for testers :)
[14:40] <balloons> phillw, hopefully it helps ppc users, and lubunutu
[14:41] <balloons> astraljava, :-( sorry to hear. I'm sure it will get sorted out
[14:41] <balloons> Well, I think that wraps everything up
[14:41] <balloons> thanks for attending!
[14:41] <balloons> #endmeeting
[14:41] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 18 14:41:31 2012 UTC.
[14:41] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-18-14.10.moin.txt
[14:41] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-18-14.10.html
[14:41] <phillw> thanks for chairing balloons
[15:00]  * stgraber waves
[15:00] <infinity> o/
[15:00] <ev> hi
[15:00] <barry> o/
[15:01] <ogra_> moo
[15:01] <cjwatson> hi.  doko and xnox are on holiday, slangasek is at the UEFI plugfest; anyone else I've forgotten who's away?
[15:01] <ogra_> raise your hand if you are :)
[15:01] <MrChrisDruif> =)
[15:01] <MrChrisDruif> o/
[15:01] <jodh> o/
[15:02] <cjwatson> http://www.tomscott.com/cliff/
[15:02] <cjwatson> #startmeeting
[15:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 18 15:02:51 2012 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:02] <ogra_> is that nafallo ?
[15:03] <cjwatson> dunno :)
[15:03] <cjwatson> #topic lightning round
[15:03] <ogra_> :)
[15:03] <cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e barry bdmurray cjwatson ev infinity jodh ogra stgraber)
[15:03] <cjwatson> stgraber cjwatson ogra barry jodh bdmurray ev infinity
[15:03] <stgraber> I win!
[15:03]  * infinity naps.
[15:03] <stgraber> - Containers
[15:03] <stgraber>  - Discussed implementation of set_config_item and clear_config_item in the LXC API.
[15:03] <cjwatson> sorry if I forgot anyone, directory is down for me which of course means I have no idea who's on this team :-P
[15:03] <stgraber>  - Update python binding for these two, waiting for get_keys() to then work on the network part of the python module.
[15:03] <stgraber> - Networking
[15:03] <stgraber>  - Extended IPv6 testing to include basic NetworkManager testing.
[15:03] <stgraber>  - Discovered NetworkManager doesn't support veth devices and so wouldn't run in a container. Wrote a patch, submitted to cyphermox for inclusion.
[15:03] <stgraber> - Installer
[15:03] <stgraber>  - Tested open-iscsi, updated partman-iscsi to work with the new open-iscsi.
[15:03] <stgraber> - 12.04.1
[15:03] <stgraber>  - 12.04.1 team meeting and minutes
[15:03] <stgraber>  - Went through all the targeted/milestoned bugs for 12.04.1, assigned a bunch to ~canonical-foundations, updated the status for some others.
[15:03] <stgraber>  - Verified a bunch of SRUs.
[15:04] <stgraber>  - Uploaded new ubiquity to precise-proposed.
[15:04] <stgraber>  - Updated sru-report to properly deal with verification-done-$release
[15:04] <stgraber> - Other
[15:04] <stgraber>  - Reviewed change to re-introduce slapd-smbk5pwd (built from openldap) as heimdal-dev is already a build-dep and that package is important for Zentyal.
[15:04] <stgraber>  - Some queuebot work, trying to make the new version more stable (currently running in production) and ready for the new features discussed at UDS
[15:04] <stgraber>  - Some ARB app review, the app showdown made the ARB New queue reach 140 packages... Still 50 to review...
[15:04] <stgraber> - TODO this week
[15:04] <stgraber>  - Finish reviewing/triaging ppp and libnl-3 bugs, then start looking at SRUs for the network packages.
[15:04] <stgraber>  - Go through the pending-sru and help for these that are stuck on verification-needed
[15:04] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:04] <cjwatson> Holiday on Tuesday.
[15:04] <cjwatson> Launchpad and archive administration:
[15:04] <cjwatson>  * Fixed showing failed asynchronous copies in the PPA UI (bug 812869), so it should be possible to make PPA copies asynchronous soon.
[15:04] <cjwatson>  * Fixed a couple of bugs in PackageDiff privacy (bug 1023986, bug 1025515).
[15:04] <cjwatson>  * Experimental freeze to battle-test new queue API client.  Failed with a timeout after a couple of days, so we can work on that and try again later.
[15:04] <cjwatson>  * Posted branch to remove duplicates from ArchivePermission (bug 1025441).
[15:04] <cjwatson>  * Adjusted sru-report to use a separate launchpadlib cache so that it doesn't break so often.
[15:04] <cjwatson>  * Some progress on arranging for per-pocket queue admin permissions, but still incomplete and may need a bit more database schema work.
[15:04] <cjwatson> Installer:
[15:05] <cjwatson>  * Fixed bug 1023036, which caused intermittent failures in automatic tests (and took ages to reproduce).
[15:05] <cjwatson>  * Fixed a couple of encrypted swap handling bugs (bug 1024343, bug 989279).
[15:05] <cjwatson> Other:
[15:05] <cjwatson>  * Various rebuilds for new imagemagick ABI.
[15:05] <cjwatson>  * SRU for bug 970638 in psmisc.
[15:05] <cjwatson>  * Made various things pass pep8(1).
[15:05] <cjwatson> ..
[15:05] <ogra_> done:
[15:05] <ogra_> * omap4 desktop image fixes (flash-kernel, installer etc)
[15:05] <ogra_> * ac100 desktop image fixes (ac100-tarball-installer, flash-kernel etc)
[15:05] <ogra_> * research why server preinstalled didnt build (thanks to slangasek for helping)
[15:05] <ogra_> * package new nvidia-tegra driver
[15:05] <ogra_> * test new tegra kernel
[15:05] <ogra_> * some work on foundations-q-hwpack-integration
[15:05] <ogra_> * flash-kernel SRUs
[15:05] <ogra_> todo:
[15:05] <ogra_> * more work on foundations-q-hwpack-integration
[15:05] <ogra_> * prepare for QA sprint
[15:05] <ogra_> * switch on server alternate builds for omap4
[15:05] <ogra_> * research netinst omap4 breakage
[15:05] <ogra_> ..
[15:05] <barry> short week due to holiday; continued working on the xapian py3 port using cython, hit some roadblocks so progress has slowed; worked on the py27 for lucid ppa, trying to fix the ctypes crash so the lp folks can start to use it; patch piloted: lengthy review of upmgr branch, investigated and eventually sync'd from unstable, py32.  done.
[15:06] <jodh> * misc: Holiday last week.
[15:06] <jodh> * boot/upstart: Stateful re-exec progress continues:
[15:06] <jodh>   - Created D-Bus branch with new public API to recreate a D-Bus
[15:06] <jodh>     connection from a file descriptor (required for stateful re-exec):
[15:06] <jodh>     lp:~jamesodhunt/dbus/create-connection-from-fd
[15:06] <jodh>     Needs testing (once Upstart catches up) and ideally a way to
[15:06] <jodh>     query a connections address to make usage easier.
[15:06] <jodh>   - Currently working on the JSON-encoding of blocked objects for Upstart.
[15:06] <jodh> ⠗
[15:06] <infinity> Tetris?
[15:06] <jodh> braille
[15:07] <jodh> can't you feel it?
[15:07] <infinity> *groan*
[15:07] <bdmurray> wrote a bug pattern for bug 1023055
[15:07] <bdmurray> uploaded a rebuilt ubuntu-release-upgrader to fix bug 1023055
[15:07] <bdmurray> uploaded of kerneloops to quantal turning it on
[15:07] <bdmurray> apport upload to precise-proposed to collect /etc/default/grub - bug 1006633
[15:07] <barry> owww
[15:07] <bdmurray> modified search-recent-package-bugs-for-spikes to use urllib and work for any team
[15:07] <bdmurray> added search-recent-package-bugs-for-spikes to ubuntu-reports
[15:07] <bdmurray> arsenal modification to collect-bug-data to filter by days-in-importance
[15:07] <bdmurray> setup of reopened, recent-triaged, recent-confirmed and recently set to high or critical bug tasks reports on cranberry using arsenal
[15:07] <cjwatson> barry: any roadblocks I can assist with beyond the conversation we had the other day?
[15:07] <bdmurray> modified lpltk to deal with bug tasks that don't have date_ for a status
[15:07] <bdmurray> modified lpltk to be able to filter on the date the importance of a bug was set
[15:07] <bdmurray> modified sru-report to sort by days package has been out
[15:07] <bdmurray> sru-report: make bugs golden colored if they have comments since being uploaded
[15:07] <bdmurray> reported launchpad bug 1023592 regarding missing date_ transition data
[15:08] <bdmurray> done
[15:08] <barry> cjwatson: perhaps we can chat after this meeting
[15:08] <cjwatson> bdmurray: recent sru-report changes are pretty handy, thanks
[15:08] <cjwatson> barry: sure
[15:08] <ev> - Short week; holiday on Monday.
[15:08] <ev> - Implemented the recoverable errors API and Martin uploaded it to Quantal.
[15:08] <ev>   Just need to adequately document it now and open up daisy.ubuntu.com to
[15:08] <ev>   receive these reports.
[15:08] <ev> - Sat down with Matthew and walked through the http://errors.ubuntu.com UI,
[15:08] <ev>   identifying some design problems.
[15:08] <ev>   - We now show 6 months worth of data on the average errors per day graph.
[15:08] <ev>     The graph itself now lets you zoom in on a particular area and uses the
[15:08] <ev>     secondary color scheme design has been working on.
[15:08] <ev>   - The erroneous '(not' entries are no longer added to the Last Seen field (I
[15:08] <ev>     still need to clear the existing ones).
[15:08] <ev>   - The navigation now shares the site navigation from qa.ubuntu.com. I need
[15:08] <ev>     to coordinate getting Errors linked to from there as well.
[15:08] <ev>   - I've written code to put individual lines for each Ubuntu release on the
[15:08] <ev>     average errors per day graph. I have a pending RT for deploying this.
[15:08] <ev>   - Per Seb's request, we can now display just Ubuntu sources for the Last
[15:08] <ev>     Seen column on the front page. I'm putting together an RT for deploying
[15:08] <ev>     this change.
[15:08] <ev>   - The individual problem pages have been reworked with clearer titles
[15:08] <ev>     and formatting. There's now a graph at the top of the page showing the
[15:08] <ev>     frequency over time this issue has been affecting Ubuntu.
[15:08] <ev>   - The individual instance pages now use the expanders from Launchpad to
[15:09] <ev>     autohide long fields, very much matching the Apport UI. The stack trace is
[15:09] <ev>     still shown by default though.
[15:09] <ev> - Started implementing the rest of the compiz changes for error reports from
[15:09] <ev>   application hangs. I've also asked the compiz guys to review the proposed
[15:09] <ev>   UI, but haven't heard anything back yet.
[15:09] <ev> - Testing what I hope are the final round of USB disks for the shop.
[15:09] <ev> (done)
[15:09] <jodh> ev: so.. Max is back on form eh? :)
[15:09] <infinity> * DebConf (last week)
[15:09] <infinity>  - Attended lots of talks, had lots of hallway conversations, etc
[15:09] <infinity>  - Worked on a plan for saner (e)glibc maintenance in Debian/Ubuntu
[15:09] <infinity> * Merges, merges, merges
[15:09] <infinity>  - A reminder/tip for those of us who are DDs: if we're carrying an
[15:09] <infinity>    Ubuntu delta for RC bugs, NMU them into Debian, save yourself some
[15:09] <infinity>    pain, and if we're carrying non-RC deltas on orphaned packages, do
[15:09] <infinity>    a QA upload, and stop merging the same one-line fix every two weeks
[15:09] <infinity> * Rebootstrapped GHC and gnat-4.6 on armel, and rebuilt a mess of
[15:09] <infinity>   stuff to reduce the FTBFS list for armel
[15:09] <infinity> * Fixed firefox and thunderbird compile options on armel and armhf
[15:09] <infinity> * Rebootstrapped sbcl on powerpc
[15:10] <infinity> * Lots of SRU work, including a bunch of kernel SRUS
[15:10] <infinity> * Upcoming: Really working on britney2 this week, no, honest!
[15:10] <infinity> ⡇⠼⠧⠳⠛⠗ ← Looks like Tetris to me.
[15:10] <infinity> Guess that needs some spaces.
[15:10] <infinity> ⡇ ⠼ ⠧ ⠳ ⠛ ⠗
[15:10] <ev> jodh: yup :)
[15:11] <ev> well, for the moment
[15:11] <cjwatson> ah, that's everyone, great
[15:11] <cjwatson> #topic bugs
[15:11] <cjwatson> stgraber said he wanted to talk about .1 bits
[15:12] <stgraber> cjwatson: "import random; team = [person.name for person in lp.people['canonical-foundations'].participants]; random.shuffle(team); print(team)" (sadly accessing the IRC nicks seems a bit broken in the API...)
[15:12] <stgraber> yep, I have a pretty long list of foundation related bugs that are targeted for 12.04.1
[15:12] <stgraber> Full bug list can be found at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
[15:12] <stgraber> I did a quick pass on things that are either "maintained" by the team or are of interest to the team, the list is pretty long.
[15:12] <stgraber> I excluded any bug that's "fix commited" (in -proposed) or "in progress" (because it's waiting in the queue):
[15:13] <stgraber> Storage related: bug 969384, bug 978012, bug 942106, bug 1012946, bug 957494, bug 968074, bug 1002357, bug 1017407, bug 1022915, bug 1009973
[15:13] <stgraber> right, need to split by group of 5, forgot about that...
[15:13] <stgraber> bug 968074, bug 1002357, bug 1017407, bug 1022915, bug 1009973
[15:14] <infinity> stgraber: I'm working with xnox to get a sanely-reviewed e2fsprogs update in.
[15:14] <cjwatson> stgraber: person.irc_nicknames[0].nickname works fine except that doko hasn't set one
[15:14] <infinity> stgraber: And mdadm is in the queue, which should address some of those bugs (but not sure how many), and may also need some iterations before it can be accepted.
[15:15] <stgraber> yeah, there's a crazy amount of mdadm bugs targeted to the point release and I know mdadm was already rejected once from the queue
[15:15] <infinity> stgraber: With him frolicking at the Olympics and such, one of us might need to take up the banner there.
[15:15] <bdmurray> s/banner/torch/
[15:15] <ogra_> its only volleyball, no ?
[15:16]  * ogra_ doubts that will keep him busy 24/7
[15:16] <infinity> ogra_: He's on vacation. :P
[15:16] <ogra_> oh, k
[15:16] <ogra_> heh
[15:16] <stgraber> at least one of the mdadm bugs is critical so would be good to see at least part of these fixes land soonish
[15:16] <cjwatson> I'm OK to upload the next ubiquity SRU now, aren't I?
[15:16] <stgraber> cjwatson: it's already in the queue
[15:16] <cjwatson> Oh, it's there, yeah
[15:17] <stgraber> Package management related bugs: bug 1017001, bug 831768, bug 936186, bug 924079, bug 1007314
[15:17] <stgraber> bug 946718, bug 226780
[15:17] <cjwatson> 831768 is doomed, it's not going to get any further for .1
[15:17] <cjwatson> needs serious upstream work
[15:17] <stgraber> cjwatson: ok, re-target to precise-updates then?
[15:18] <cjwatson> Yeah, doing
[15:18] <infinity> I'm not sure why 226780 is targetted for .1
[15:18] <infinity> Sure, it should be fixed "some day", but it's always been broken.
[15:19] <infinity> (And we keep turning off apt-key net-update when we find new security flaws in its design anyway :P)
[15:19] <cjwatson> Maybe because we actually need to cycle the key soon
[15:19] <cjwatson> (As soon as I get round to the necessary publisher changes)
[15:19] <cjwatson> But yeah, we probably just need to deliver that in a package, I guess
[15:19] <infinity> cjwatson: Does our key cycling actually rely on net-update?  Cause that's going to end in tears.
[15:19]  * slangasek waves from the train
[15:19] <cjwatson> No, it's a backstop measure
[15:20] <cjwatson> Although very handy if we ever have to do an emergency cycling
[15:20] <infinity> cjwatson: I would have assumed it would be delivered in ubuntu-keyring, and there wouldn't be a hard cutover of doom.
[15:20] <cjwatson> There would be if our key were compromised.
[15:20] <cjwatson> Well, possibly.
[15:20] <infinity> cjwatson: Absolutely.  Hence why the bug needs to be fixed.  Just not sure about the sudden .1 urgency.
[15:20] <cjwatson> Yeah.
[15:20] <infinity> (Well, the bugs, plural, net-update is a mess)
[15:21] <stgraber> moved it to -updates too. We don't have a fix in quantal or even the beginning of a fix for it, so unlikely that someone can spend the time for 12.04.1
[15:21] <stgraber> (especially considering the pretty long list of other bugs to fix)
[15:22] <infinity> The tinfo/ncurses thing, I haven't seen before.  But it can't be a hard fix.
[15:22] <infinity> Well, it can't he hard to work around.  Fixing might be a bit much.
[15:23] <stgraber> we really want to get that list to reflect what can be done for 12.04.1, so if you're planning on working on one of these, assign it to yourself, if you know it won't happen, comment and move to another milestone.
[15:23] <stgraber> Installer related bug: bug 966480, bug 484252, bug 1021293, bug 992061
[15:23] <cjwatson> I'll see if I can scrape together time for 1021293 from somewhere :-/
[15:23] <stgraber> I'll take the casper one as I've seen it happen a few times and it's really annoying
[15:24] <stgraber> ARM enablement bugs: bug 1004011
[15:25] <stgraber> Looks like NCommander is taking care of these (he uploaded the d-i bits IIRC)
[15:25] <stgraber> Multi-arch: bug 977947, bug 977952, bug 977964, bug 977940, bug 977959
[15:25] <cjwatson> stgraber: That one has two uploads in the queue, never mind one, I think
[15:25]  * ogra_ is happy to help out if needed
[15:25] <cjwatson> Bitten by bug 1025515 so it's a little hard to tell
[15:25] <cjwatson> (Sorry about that)
[15:26] <stgraber> stokachu: any progress with the rdepends rebuild test?
[15:26] <stgraber> Grub/boot: bug 975931, bug 942846, bug 980917
[15:27] <cjwatson> grub-gfxpayload-lists is supposed to be essentially owned by desktop.
[15:27] <cjwatson> Or kernel.  Whoever knows what IDs are supposed to be in it.
[15:27] <cjwatson> I started it off but with the aim that we'd no longer have to care.
[15:27] <stgraber> ok, I'll try to get someone to look at these tomorrow in the 12.04.1 meeting then
[15:28] <stgraber> jodh: are we likely to get a fix for bug 980917 in time for 12.04.1?
[15:28] <jodh> I've spent a bit of time looking at 980917, but it doesn't appear to be the quick fix we thought.
[15:28] <jodh> I'll take another look at it and see if I can make some further progress....
[15:29] <stgraber> thanks
[15:29] <stgraber> Networking: bug 994575
[15:29] <infinity> jodh: The mounting and mknod tricks we talked about weren't sufficient? :/
[15:29] <stgraber> that one is fixed in quantal, I'll take care of pushing a batch of network related SRUs based on the fixes that landed in quantal, including that one
[15:29] <jodh> infinity: no - same behaviour as before.
[15:30] <infinity> jodh: Well, that's a lot of suck.
[15:30] <stgraber> Other core packages: bug 974584, bug 979003, bug 1014197
[15:30] <infinity> stgraber: So... One would think that bug 1004011 would be addressed by release-upgrader-apt.  Except that, I'm betting we only backported/used that for lucid.
[15:31] <infinity> stgraber: Err, wrong number.
[15:31] <infinity> bug 924079
[15:31] <infinity> That one.
[15:31]  * stgraber takes bug 1014197
[15:31] <infinity> stgraber: Perhaps just doing the same release-upgrader-apt backport trick for oneiric would magically give us sunshine and kittens.
[15:32] <infinity> stgraber: As for 979003, I'm on it.  When's my deadline for getting that in, again?
[15:32] <infinity> stgraber: I definitely want the fix in the images.
[15:32] <stgraber> infinity: 2nd of August is when we'd like all that stuff to be in -proposed at the very least
[15:33] <infinity> stgraber: Check, I can beat that clock.
[15:33] <infinity> stgraber: It got delayed with a lot of re-writing and re-backporting upstream.
[15:33] <stgraber> bdmurray: are you planning on doing the transitional package for bug 1007314 or should I take care of it?
[15:33] <infinity> stgraber: AVX/FMA4 is a mess.
[15:33] <bdmurray> stgraber: no, I'm not planning on it
[15:34] <stgraber> bdmurray: ok, taking it then
[15:34] <stgraber> right, that's it for our 12.04.1 bug list
[15:35] <stgraber> I'll be keeping track of these and will likely poke some of you to get some status update or check whether something should be moved to a later milestone
[15:35] <cjwatson> I've just got http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise-proposed_probs.html working again, I think - we'll see at the next run
[15:36] <stgraber> I'm also going to take 974584
[15:37] <stgraber> as the server team said they'd prefer to have someone from foundations merge the fix from Debian and SRU it
[15:37] <stgraber> there's also one more fix that we'll need pretty soon which is fixing live-build to only ship one kernel header
[15:37] <stgraber> is someone already looking into that?
[15:37] <infinity> stgraber: I was going to look into that.  Is there a bug for it, or should I JFDI?
[15:37] <stgraber> (images are oversized at the moment, so anything to help get their size down a bit would help)
[15:38] <infinity> stgraber: The quicker and less intrusive fix will probably be to post-process the chroot in livecd-rootfs, not fix it in live-build.
[15:38] <cjwatson> infinity: I had a work item for it from ages back.  I don't think I ever filed a bug.
[15:38] <stgraber> infinity: can't find a bug for it
[15:38] <cjwatson> infinity: It should be a matter of carrying over the code from livecd.sh.
[15:38] <infinity> cjwatson: Alright.  I'm not going to go WI hunting, I'll JFDI.
[15:38] <cjwatson> And figuring out where to plug it in.
[15:38] <infinity> cjwatson: Yeahp, that's where the cargo-culting was going to happen. :P
[15:38] <cjwatson> It's in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-o-live-build
[15:39]  * infinity replaces live-build with livecd.sh and waits to see who notices.
[15:39] <cjwatson> You can have it, not that I expect anything will notice the assignee change
[15:40] <cjwatson> #topic AOB
[15:40]  * ogra_ hugs infinity
[15:40] <ogra_> would be lovely to have it back :)
[15:42] <infinity> In the AOB camp, I'd like to remind people that Debian's all wheezy freezy.  If you have a spare 5 minutes where you're not, like, working on work, or having a life, go be a good citizen and fix an RC bug or two upstream.
[15:43] <cjwatson> In theory I need to see if I can squeeze in python3-debian and GRUB 2.00.  Might be getting decreasingly plausible :(
[15:43]  * cjwatson is planning on taking a few days of holiday next week to do housework and work on Debian, since the family's going to be away
[15:43]  * cjwatson <- exciting life
[15:43] <infinity> cjwatson: Significantly more plausible than my plan to ship glibc 2.15 a week before release.
[15:44] <barry> or mine to make python3.3 the default and remove python2 entirely? :)
[15:44]  * infinity is still miffed he missed the cuttof to just doko that in before freeze.
[15:44] <cjwatson> (There may be some Guitar Hero involved too.)
[15:44] <infinity> Can I use doko as a verb for that?  Seems fair.
[15:44] <ogra_> heh
[15:45]  * ogra_ just discovered Xonotic for gaming ... to actually make some use of the shiny new desktop i have
[15:45] <barry> infinity: you've created a new meme
[15:45] <ogra_> "lets doko that in !" ...
[15:45] <ogra_> surely makes a nice t-shirt
[15:46] <ScottK> barry: This isn't arch.
[15:46] <barry> or just a new meaning for the 'd' in jfdi
[15:46] <barry> :)
[15:47] <slangasek> barry: AIUI 3.3 is on track upstream for where we said it needed to be... *are* we going to take it by default in quantal?
[15:47] <infinity> barry: wwdd?
[15:48] <ScottK> FWIW, dh_python3 is not ready for 3.3 yet.
[15:48] <barry> slangasek: i think beta2 was delayed a week.  not sure how that's going to play out
[15:48] <cjwatson> ScottK: What's needed?
[15:48] <slangasek> ScottK: not ready in what sense?
[15:49] <ev> very excited about mock in the standard library
[15:49] <ScottK> See Debian Bug #672178
[15:50] <slangasek> barry: ^^ seems that should get tracked on the blueprint then?
[15:50] <barry> i'll open a bug on the ubuntu srcpkg and link it to that debian bug
[15:50] <barry> slangasek: yes
[15:52] <barry> bug 1026203
[15:56] <cjwatson> ok, sounds like that's all, thanks
[15:56] <cjwatson> #endmeeting
[15:56] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 18 15:56:20 2012 UTC.
[15:56] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-18-15.02.moin.txt
[15:56] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-18-15.02.html
[15:56] <ogra_> thanks !
[15:56] <barry> thanks!
[15:56] <stgraber> thanks!
[15:57] <jodh> thanks!
[15:59] <ev> thanks!
[23:01] <papibe> hi s-fox
[23:01] <s-fox> 'Leo
[23:01] <s-fox> 'lo
[23:01] <papibe> s-fox: :)
[23:02] <s-fox> So is it just coffeecat and I?
[23:04] <coffeecat> o/
[23:04] <hobgoblin> looks like
[23:04] <matt_symes> does that mean the meeting is called off ?
[23:04] <s-fox> Think might have to cancel :(
[23:04] <s-fox> No quorum
[23:05] <s-fox> * ridiculous *
[23:05] <hobgoblin> yep
[23:05] <papibe> :(
[23:05] <s-fox> Im really sorry ;-(
[23:05] <s-fox>
[23:06] <wildmanne39> are we going to wait a few minutes?
[23:06] <s-fox>  I don't mind waiting for another 10
[23:06] <wildmanne39> ok
[23:07] <coffeecat> I doubt we'll see cariboo http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12104754&postcount=2134
[23:07] <s-fox> So how are the mods?
[23:07] <hobgoblin> tired :)
[23:07] <s-fox> +1
[23:07] <nothingspecial> here
[23:07] <papibe> staff=mods?
[23:08] <hobgoblin> spending too long on spam bans waiting for vb4 and tools that might turn up one day :)
[23:08] <s-fox> Oui
[23:08] <wildmanne39> just got back to town 30 minutes ago
[23:08] <papibe> merci
[23:09]  * s-fox spent all night taking money off people at billiards
[23:09] <s-fox> ;D
[23:09] <hobgoblin> :)
[23:09] <wildmanne39> sounds like fun
[23:10] <papibe> s-fox: did it only once, and won.
[23:12] <s-fox> Well im now home.
[23:12] <s-fox> coffeecat:  do you think we should rearrange?
[23:12]  * s-fox will post in scc later.
[23:12] <s-fox> This is not even funny anymore
[23:13] <coffeecat> s-fox, yes.
[23:13] <matt_symes> shame :(
[23:13] <s-fox> I know matt_symes :(
[23:13] <s-fox> I am sorry to all those who did come
[23:13] <oldos2er> s-fox: not your fault
[23:14] <s-fox> :(
[23:14] <hobgoblin> k - well I'm off to catch up on some zzzz's
[23:14] <matt_symes> laters hobgoblin
[23:14] <s-fox> Me too. Silly o'clock in the morning with a 5am start
[23:15] <wildmanne39> night s-fox
[23:15] <s-fox> To be frank I am disappointed
[23:15] <matt_symes> ouch s-fox
[23:15] <s-fox> Anyway, see you all.
[23:15] <nothingspecial> me too
[23:15] <papibe> oki doki, I'm sure next time will be better.
[23:15] <wildmanne39> yes but we can do nothing about it


[00:11] <oscalation> David-A: krytarik installed disk utility but my luck     SMART status: Not supported. it also doesnt have the option to do a disk check
[00:11] <oscalation> now what should i try? format it and try again?
[00:11] <oscalation> when trying to install xubutu i got read/write errors
[00:11] <oscalation> unable to read/write to disk
[00:20] <Labyrinth00> ahoy out there
[00:22] <neorpheus> ahoy ye scurvy dog
[00:23] <Labyrinth00> :p
[00:24] <Labyrinth00> can you tell me when remote desktop with vnc is so sticky?
[00:24] <krytarik> oscalation: Well, the one usually involves the other too, but I'd at least investigate the disk directly with Gparted too, it's available in the Live system by default.
[00:24] <David-A> oscalation: re-format and re-install implies you would re-use a faulty disk. do you really want to do that?
[00:24] <oscalation> trying to reformat gives me "an error occured when performing an operation on drive 250 gb hard disk, The operation failed"
[00:26] <David-A> oscalation: try find palimpsests or smartctl to check the drives own stats, or badblocks to check it yourself.
[00:26] <oscalation> all are cli programs right?
[00:27] <David-A> oscalation: palimpsests is gui, the behind the scenes name for DiskUtility, or it used to be, not sure about the current state
[00:28] <oscalation> error creating partion table: helper exited with exit code 1: error calling fsync(2) on /dev/sda
[00:28] <oscalation> input output error
[00:28] <oscalation> will try palimp
[00:28] <David-A> oscalation: do you need to recover data from the failing hdd?
[00:28] <oscalation> no
[00:30] <oscalation> i just thought i could run something like a checkdisk or fixdisk on it to fix bad sectors to get some more life out of it
[00:34] <David-A> oscalation: that is what s.m.a.r.t data could hint about, how bad it is. disk utility aka palimpsest or smartctl would be used to access s.m.a.r.t data
[00:35] <David-A> oscalation: check that it is not a bad cable or something. would a good hdd work on the same controller/cable?
[01:00] <oscalation> David-A: sudo smartctl -H /dev/sda     a mandatory smart command failed
[01:01] <oscalation> drive dead?
[01:03] <oscalation>  Terminate command early due to bad response to IEC mode page A mandatory SMART command failed: exiting. To continue, add one or more '-T permissive' options.
[01:07] <David-A> oscalation: unless there is a problem with the circuits before it. if you get the same error when connected with another controller and cable it is probably dead.
[03:00] <defcon511>  is there any way to group the application icons in the taskbar?
[03:13] <paco> Hello guys, I know that wine icons are in ~/.local/share/icons, and if I remove that folder, they disappear from thunar. But I removed all the files in ~/.local/share/mime and ~/.local/share/applications and the icons still appear in thunar. Where are the configuration mime files that point to ~/.local/share/icons?
[03:14] <gr0nt> .
[03:15] <gr0nt> Got the libudev1 issue worked out after some sleep :)
[03:52] <linuxjones> is there a way to lock all of the computers on my home network with a command from one computer?
[03:53] <holstein> linuxjones: you could send commands from a terminal session while ssh'd into them. you could vnc into them.. you could script something, or just schedule it
[03:54] <holstein> you can broadcast to many tabs from terminator, and i assume other terminal enulators
[03:54] <holstein> emulators*
[03:55] <linuxjones> holstein, so the best route would be to script something to ssh into each of the computers and lock them then log back out?
[03:55] <holstein> well, "best" will be a matter of use case
[03:55] <holstein> best would be "lock screen when idle".. then, they are locked automatically
[03:56] <linuxjones> holstein, haha, true, but i want to be able to hit a button on my main laptop and have it lock the whole network
[03:59] <David-A> linuxjones: lock for user login? lock for internet access? (but not lock for you to login and unlock?)
[03:59] <holstein> linuxjones: they will already be locked from being idle.. but that button could come from inside vnc, or and ssh session.. or many other ways i bet
[04:00] <linuxjones> David-A, just lock like xsceensaver lock
[04:04] <David-A> linuxjones: do you want to prevent the current user from unlocking by entering his password? or to prevent anyone from login if currently no one was logged in?
[04:04] <linuxjones> no, current user should be able to unlock it
[04:05] <David-A> linuxjones: do you want to prevent a user from shifting to a consol and login to a command line?
[04:05] <linuxjones> yes
[04:05] <jesther> That's plausible.
[04:07] <David-A> linuxjones: I dont understand, allow an already logged in user to unlock, but not to login in the first place.
[04:07] <linuxjones> i have two computers i use at home, a laptop and a mcpc, that i also sometimes use as a desktop with synergy, id like to be able to hit a button on the laptop and have it "screensave lock" both of them
[04:08] <David-A> linuxjones: what is the big red panic button for? what is the catastrophe scenario?
[04:08] <wordupyo> Does anyone notice your mouse lagging when logging in with home folder encrypted? Keyboard is working fine, but mouse doesn't seem to be detected immediately.
[04:09] <wordupyo> Anyone nootice that behavior? It's present in ubuntu also
[04:09] <holstein> i wouldnt want a "button" to be able to do that
[04:10] <holstein> i would want to put in a password..
[04:10] <linuxjones> keep my girlfriend who doesnt know a lot about linux from messing a bunch of stuff up, she has a habit of "just messing with stuff" trying to change something
[04:10] <holstein> wordupyo: i dont think so.. you think it could be graphics driver related? does it happen with a live CD on the same hardware?
[04:11] <wordupyo> holstein: No it does not. Although I don't get a login screen on live disc.
[04:11] <David-A> linuxjones: it is to protect "you" if a stranger comes into the room? so only need to lock if "you" is logged in?
[04:11] <wordupyo> LMDE was working OK
[04:12] <holstein> wordupyo: i dont think ive ever touched a mouse during login
[04:12] <wordupyo> I seem to be having with 12.0 in its entirety
[04:12] <wordupyo> 12.04
[04:12] <holstein> wordupyo: if its literally on the login screen, and no where else, i wouldnt lose sleep over it
[04:12] <wordupyo> holstein: true. However I'm curious if it has to do with the encryption
[04:13] <holstein> wordupyo: you can always see what loging manager LMDE is/was using and use that one
[04:13] <wordupyo> I'm reinstalling it without encrypting home
[04:13] <holstein> wordupyo: try an intall on the same hardware without encyption
[04:13] <wordupyo> Oh,  and after the latest updates,, the power manager notifications were going crazy
[04:14] <linuxjones> David-A, correct
[04:14] <holstein> wordupyo: if you'd like to nail that down and bit, and get someone to confirm and try working with a bug..
[04:14] <holstein> !bug
[04:15] <wordupyo> If it happens again, I'll give it a shot. Although of the dozen or so bugs I'v reported, I've never had luck. It's a lil discouraging.
[04:16] <holstein> wordupyo: its not a luck kind of process.. if its a bug related you your specific hardware, it can be challenging
[04:17] <wordupyo> Does TRIM and any other SSD tweaks need to be done in the case of an SSD HD?
[04:17] <holstein> wordupyo: ideally, the vendor of the hardware would be working with the teams to make sure things work, in the cases of hardware support
[04:17] <wordupyo> holstein: Understood.
[04:17] <David-A> linuxjones: and it does not need to lock if no-one is logged in?
[04:18] <wordupyo> !ssd
[04:18] <linuxjones> David-A, not really, if no one is logged in then its alreadly locked, basically, right?
[04:18] <holstein> wordupyo: this is a friends article about ssd's.. http://wootangent.net/2013/03/dr-strangedrive-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-ssds/
[04:19] <holstein> wordupyo: i think its going to depend on your use case. and since its your investment, you'll need to decide how you want to choose to try and protect that investment..
[04:19] <David-A> linuxjones: yes, I mean the panic button would not do anything for a computer where no-one is logged in
[04:19] <linuxjones> right
[04:20] <holstein> i had an older eeepc with an ssd.. i didnt bother with anything special on it, and its still working after years and years
[04:20] <David-A> (an early interpretation was it could prevent login after a panic putton event)
[04:20] <holstein> but, i havent had the kind of gear where i might want to try and tweak performance.. or a larger investement of $$
[04:21] <David-A> linuxjones: if you have xscreensaver and are logged in to a graphical environment you can do ''xscreensaver-command -lock'' to lock the screen.
[04:22] <wordupyo> I enabled noatime,  deadline scheduler and a few other tweaks on my old system. I've been having too many issues totest it out yet.
[04:22] <David-A> linuxjones: question is, how to make that happen for the logged in user with the logged in user's DISPLAY variable, from a remote ssh login?
[04:22] <linuxjones> David-A, so to do that across the network id make a script to ssh to the other computer and do that there first, then on the local one?
[04:22] <wordupyo> This is a thinkpad x220 so it should be pretty well supported :/
[04:23] <holstein> wordupyo: maybe look at the tweaks you are doing.. think about trying a rather stock implementation for comparison. i typically just install and it "works TM"
[04:23] <wordupyo> Appears distributions still don't offer out the box ways to detect/configure ssd drives
[04:24] <wordupyo> holstein: Well I'm trying to give ubuntu distributions another shot
[04:25] <wordupyo> ubuntu has hardly just worked in my experience. Or it "just worked" until upgrades.
[04:25] <wordupyo> Any way.
[04:25] <wordupyo> thanks holstein
[04:25] <David-A> linuxjones: you could have a background script that starts when you login (e.g. .xinitrc) and monitors the microphone and locks the screen if more than 85dB in the room. if in panic, just scream!
[04:25] <wordupyo> I'm going to reboot, install finished.
[04:25] <wordupyo> Appreciate your time.
[04:26] <linuxjones> David-A, that would be awesome! but i think thats a little bit over my head, i dont really have the programming experience to do something like that, haha
[04:29] <holstein> wordupyo: should be nothing special you *need* to do with an ssd
[04:29] <holstein> wordupyo: you might choose to, if you want..
[04:29] <David-A> linuxjones: it could monitor if a file /tmp/panic exists, and you create it via ssh. but then someone else can dos you by creating the same file.
[04:31] <linuxjones> is the button press not an option?
[04:32] <holstein> linuxjones: its all open, so most anything is an option.. but most linux users will not want to open up a system to that level of control remotely for security
[04:32] <David-A> linuxjones: the panic button on computer 1 starts a script that ssh into computer 2 and creates /tmp/panic
[04:33] <linuxjones> David-A, what is the security risk? the ssh server or just the ability to lock it that way?
[04:34] <David-A> linuxjones: it depends what you allow to ssh. for this you only need to allow "you" to login from specific other computers in the local network.
[04:36] <David-A> linuxjones: to signal the monitoring program, via /tmp/panic or a process signal, you dont need to login as root. thus, no root involved no-where.
[04:36] <linuxjones> David-A, so im confused as to why the script that ssh's in and lock it and then mine is a bad idea
[04:36] <holstein> linuxjones: its not "bad" if thats what you want to do.. there is a risk envolved, and you take it if you want
[04:36] <linuxjones> David-A, why would i need to log in as root?
[04:37] <holstein> linuxjones: theres a reason why there arent these button press options as default, or easily addable..
[04:38] <David-A> linuxjones: you don't need root
[04:38] <well_laid_lawn> !root
[04:39] <David-A> linuxjones: in my thinking you need a monitor program that starts when you login and waits for the signal. it runs as "you" and only when you are loggen into a graphical environment.
[04:40] <David-A> linuxjones: that monitor program waits for a signal sent from "you" logged in via ssh.
[04:42] <linuxjones> David-A, i think im missing something, how is that different than just sshing in and doing the xscreensaver-command -lock?
[04:43] <David-A> linuxjones: the ssh-process does not have the DISPLAY variable. it does not have the graphical environment.
[04:44] <linuxjones> but when i try it out it says, $DISPLAY is not set: defaulting to ":0.0", and it locks the remote desktop
[04:44] <linuxjones> is that not always going to work?
[04:44] <David-A> linuxjones: oh, I didn't know that. nice.
[04:46] <linuxjones> David-A, the one thing i thought of is, if for some reason it takes longer than expected for the login prompt to come up on computer2, is that going to become and issue?
[04:47] <David-A> linuxjones: if you just xscreensaver-command -lock in ssh, what happens if no-one is logged in? or if your sister is logged in instead?
[04:50] <linuxjones> David-A, gives me a warning, cant open display, but no one else is ever on logged into computer 2, so there is only one user account, mine, but i dont want something to not work and some go messing around with it a screw something up, haha
[04:54] <David-A> linuxjones: it seems you have a rather easy solution then
[04:56] <David-A> linuxjones: can you see if xscreensaver-command is blocking the ssh session until you unlock, or if it returns immediately?
[04:57] <linuxjones> to unlock it?
[05:00] <David-A> linuxjones: for me xscreensaver-command is not blocking. it returns after a few secs and leaves the screen locked.
[05:01] <linuxjones> but if it all works correctly, both computers will be locked, so no one would be able to get on this one to access the ssh session anyway, and i use synergy, which is not blocked by the lock either, so i can just mouse up to the other screen and unlock it that way
[05:01] <David-A> linuxjones: (I was wondering if a & would be needed, so the ssh-session would not stay the whole time until someone unlocked the screen)
[05:02] <linuxjones> David-A, oh, ok
[05:37] <linuxjones> another problem ive been having is when i have an external monitor connected, and i set the options in the power settings to do nothing when i close the lid, it still shuts everything down when i close the lid, is there a fix for that?
[06:20] <notmypudding> Can anybody give me a hand?  I've installed xubuntu twice and both times when I go to boot up the system it freezes at the logo.  I'm not sure where to begin troubleshooting this issue
[06:21] <well_laid_lawn> you can turn the bootsplash off and see what the kerel is doing
[06:24] <notmypudding> Thanks, I'll give that a try
[07:03] <notmypudding> Hrm, it's freezing at "Stopping save kernel messages"
[07:14] <notmypudding> Fixed that and now it's freezing at "Stopping CPU interrupts balancing daemon"
[09:44] <pjotter> Hi there. Does anybody know how I can disable the "smart placement" feature?
[09:47] <well_laid_lawn> you can adjust that in window manager tweaks afaik
[09:48] <pjotter> I tried that. But I have only the options to make windows open at center of under the mouse. I would like my windows to open at their previous positions.
[09:49] <pjotter> I think this started when I did an upgrade to xfce 4.10
[09:50] <pjotter> Before, most applications (that save their positions) opened at their previous position. But now, all windows open either on top of the screen of in the middel of the screen. There seems to be no option to restore the old behaviour
[09:51] <ObrienDave> not sure if "save session" would do that for you
[09:54] <pjotter> ObrienDave: I doubt it. This problem seems to be related to the new way in which xfce4 is handeling windows placement.
[10:17] <ObrienDave> from the Xfce.org website.....
[10:18] <ObrienDave> Is it possible to have windows remember their position?
[10:18] <ObrienDave> Short answer: no.
[10:18] <ObrienDave> Long answer: If the application supports it, it will restore itself at the location and size you last specified (example: Terminal or Thunar). If the application doesn't support it you can use a window matching application like devilspie or wmctrl
[10:20] <ObrienDave> *correction* from http://wiki.xfce.org/faq
[12:46] <xubuntu116> end
[13:51] <davidw> anyone else getting lots of crashes and problems and just general grief from 13.10? I've got a dell xps 13 that ships with Ubuntu and the thing is not really stable :-/
[13:52] <cfhowlett> davidw, it ships with 12.04, right?  not 13.10 ...
[13:52] <davidw> cfhowlett, yeah, and I've updated it, and switched to xubuntu, but the point being is that the hardware should pretty much work...
[13:54] <cfhowlett> davidw, that hardware was optimized for that version.  You're right, but upgrading from the LTS to a very short life-cycle interim version might not have been the optimal way to go and I'm pretty sure Dell would say as much.
[13:55] <davidw> I'm sure they would.  That's why I'm not asking via their support....
[13:55] <davidw> that version has issues of its own though, and I liked xfce more than that other crap that ubuntu uses
[13:56] <cfhowlett> davidw, did you actually drop the ubuntu version and replace it with xubuntu?
[13:56] <davidw> cfhowlett, afaik, yes
[13:57] <davidw> I think most of the problems are ubuntu problems, but I'm a bit wary of the power management stuff
[13:57] <davidw> in xfce
[13:57] <cfhowlett> davidw, perhaps  the better option would be to reinstall ubuntu and then add the desktop environment XFCE.  IIRC the sputnik ubuntu has the customized kernels and packages to make it all just work so when you dropped that ...
[13:58] <pjotter> I have never been able to figure out the powermanagement in Xubuntu/xfce either. It's a bit confusing if you ask me.
[13:58] <cfhowlett> davidw, mind you, I've not yet owned the xps13, but I do have tech lust for the M3800 Precision
[13:58] <davidw> most recently when it would lock the screen, it would start gnome-screensaver, and for good measure, xscreensaver too
[14:02] <krytarik> davidw: You could always try Xubuntu 13.10 using a Live medium, and if it works there, do a clean, fresh reinstall with it.
[14:03] <davidw> I guess I'll just have to try and dedicate more time to bug hunting...
[14:04] <davidw> http://askubuntu.com/questions/375108/ubuntu-13-10-wpa-supplicant-crashes-on-login  - looks like it's not just xubuntu... I think xfce doesn't cause that many of the problems I am seeing
[14:04] <davidw> I wish the Ubuntu guys would stop monkeying around with trying to create the Ultimate GUI and get back to creating a solid system for linux users
[14:32] <pjotter> davidw: It's exactly why I moved to Xubuntu. It appears they're turning Ubuntu in a kind of tablet-OS. Which is nice for tablets but not for desktops. And also I just can' t live without a decent treemenu. :)
[14:32] <davidw> pjotter, yeah, I need the virtual desktops, all 10 of them, not the silly 4 that their latest thing has.  And I want focus follows mouse.
[14:32] <cfhowlett> xtree for the win!
[14:33] <davidw> I think Ubuntu is chasing taillights with all the tablet and phone stuff
[14:35] <ObrienDave> davidw, you can have up to 99 desktops, not just 4 or 10. i have 20
[14:35] <davidw> ObrienDave, I know.  I have 10
[14:36] <ObrienDave> k
[14:36] <davidw> in Ubuntu's unity thing, you can have 4
[14:36]  * ObrienDave hates unity. XFCE all the way
[14:36] <davidw> when I saw that, I said F that... and was very grateful to have found some like-minded people in the xfce community
[14:45] <ObrienDave> cfhowlett, xtree? wow, that's going back a ways ;)
[14:47] <cfhowlett> I TOLD you I was older than you!
[14:49] <ObrienDave> LOL now showing it ;P
[14:49]  * davidw wishes he were not so old
[14:50] <ObrienDave> cfhowlett, ever heard of Ztree? full 32bit clone of Xtree Gold :D
[14:51] <cfhowlett> I don't think I ever messed with Ztree but I do remember using Xtree Gold when that was state-of-the-art
[14:52] <ObrienDave> LOL i used to run Windows 3.1 from the Xtree shell LMAO
[14:54] <cfhowlett> DOS baby!  and the green phosphor IBM monitor.  and that absolutely kicking XT keyboard!
[14:56]  * slickymaster smiles at the walk down memory lane
[14:56] <ObrienDave> LOL the "chiclet" keyboard, "doing"
[14:56] <ObrienDave> I hated that sound
[15:02]  * ObrienDave has a working Compaq Deskpro 286 portable with 20MB HD and dual 5-1/4" floppies ;P
 you around ?
[17:32] <Orioa> hope this is the right channel
[17:32] <holstein> Orioa: start by just asking the question..
[17:33] <Orioa> ok here we go.. how do i change the login background to something other then the black screen
[17:34] <Orioa> i have tried ubuntu tweak..adding the link to the gtk.greeter.conf file nothing works
[17:34] <holstein> Orioa: you'll want to purge the tweak sources.. i think those can cause issues
[17:34] <Orioa> not sure how to do that
[17:35] <Orioa> i was just told that the file i changed was just a backup file
[17:35] <holstein> !info ppa-purge is one way
[17:35] <holstein> !info ppa-purg
[17:35] <holstein> !info ppa-purge
[17:36] <Orioa> ive googled this for over a week everything ive read does not work was also told it was a bug in xubuntu
[17:37] <ochosi> Orioa: sry, quickly had to take care of something
[17:37] <Orioa> its ok
[17:37] <ochosi> ok, so are you using xubuntu in a clean install?
[17:37] <ochosi> and if yes, what version
[17:38] <Orioa> the latest version
[17:38] <ochosi> 13.10?
[17:38] <Orioa> done all the updates and everything
[17:38] <ochosi> did you just install xubuntu or did you install ubuntu?
[17:38] <Orioa> xubuntu
[17:39] <ochosi> and you currently don't have any wallpaper in the greeter?
[17:39] <ochosi> (greeter = loginscreen)
[17:39] <Orioa> this was one of the version i did not have any issues with fetting my second monitor working
[17:39] <Orioa> yes i do a added the link to were the wallaper is
[17:40] <ochosi> so when you first installed xubuntu, did the greeter have a wallpaper?
[17:40] <Orioa> i changed the gtk.greeter.conf file and the gtk.greeter.ubuntu.conf file
[17:40] <Orioa> no
[17:41] <ochosi> it was plain black?
[17:41] <Orioa> yes
[17:41] <ochosi> are you sure you downloaded xubuntu? :)
[17:41] <Orioa> even though the file had a background specified in it
[17:41] <Orioa> yes
[17:41] <ochosi> i mean when you *first* started xubuntu
[17:41] <Orioa> yes
[17:41] <ochosi> there must've been the xubuntu wallpaper as background of the greeter
[17:42] <Orioa> if you tell me how to check what is injstalled and version i will copy and past it for you
[17:42] <Orioa> the xubuntu comes up before the screen to log in
[17:42] <ochosi> Orioa: apt-cache policy lightdm-gtk-greeter
[17:42] <Orioa> that one has a wallpaper
[17:43] <Orioa> lightdm-gtk-greeter:
[17:43] <Orioa>   Installed: 1.6.1-0ubuntu1
[17:43] <Orioa>   Candidate: 1.6.1-0ubuntu1
[17:43] <Orioa>   Version table:
[17:43] <Orioa>  *** 1.6.1-0ubuntu1 0
[17:43] <Orioa>         500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ saucy/universe amd64 Packages
[17:43] <Orioa>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[17:44] <ochosi> ok, so you're using 13.10
[17:44] <ochosi> at least that much is establishe
[17:44] <ochosi> d
[17:45] <ochosi> could you paste your /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf and your /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf on dpaste.com please and then paste the links here?
[17:45] <Orioa> yeah
[17:46] <Orioa> background=usr/share/backgrounds/Grey-Wolf.png
[17:46] <Orioa> theme-name=Greybi
[17:46] <Orioa> icon-theme-name=elementary-xfce
[17:46] <Orioa> font-name=Droid Sans 10
[17:46] <Orioa> xft-antialias=true
[17:46] <Orioa> xft-dpi=96
[17:46] <Orioa> xft-hintstyle=slight
[17:46] <Orioa> xft-rgba=rgb
[17:46] <Orioa> show-language-selector=true
[17:46] <Orioa> show-indicators=
[17:46] <Orioa> show-clock=true
[17:46] <Orioa> clock-format=%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M
[17:46] <holstein> !paste | Orioa
[17:46] <Orioa> keyboard=onboard
[17:47] <Orioa> thats the gtk.greeter file her is the other
[17:47] <Orioa> sorry unottu don't know how to dothta
[17:48] <holstein> Orioa: the directions are in the link i had the bot give you
[17:49] <holstein> Orioa: you go to http://paste.ubuntu.com and paste the information.. submit, and share the link back you are given.. like http://paste.ubuntu.com/6525826/
[17:49] <Orioa> ty
[17:50] <Orioa> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6525829/
[17:54] <holstein> Orioa: im hesitant to suggest this, but if i were you, and this is a big deal to you, i woud try reinstalling, or purging all the tweaks you have done trying to "fix" this
[17:54] <holstein> Orioa: it should work out of the box, and you may be able to test this with the live CD
[17:54] <ochosi> Orioa: there's a slash missing
[17:54] <ochosi> Orioa: it should be "/usr/share/backgrounds/Grey-Wolf.png", not "usr/share/backgrounds/Grey-Wolf.png"
[17:54] <holstein> yeah.. /usr/*
[17:54] <ochosi> that's the simple answer/fix
[17:54] <ochosi> i'm off, ttyl
[17:57] <holstein> Orioa: did you add the "/" into your code?
[17:58] <Orioa> yes
[18:00] <Orioa> omg i forgot the / before user
[18:00] <holstein> Orioa: before /usr
[18:00] <Orioa> omg how dumb was that..guess its because i didn't know i had to
[18:00] <holstein> Orioa: that is the path
[18:01] <Orioa> now i have it /usr/share/backgrounds/Grey-Wolf.png
[18:01] <Orioa> i didn't know i needed / before the usr
[18:02] <holstein> Orioa: thats the path.. you need it to define the location of the file *anywhere*
[18:02] <Orioa> ok i have it now will reboot in a few to see if it worked
[18:58] <xubuntu552> Hi everyone! I'd be very interested in having the HUD functionality (searching through an application menue via keyboard shortcut). I'm not sure if there is any active development in this direction. The last information i could find about such functionality was in this post http://xubuntu.org/news/looking-towards-xubuntu-13-10/
[18:58] <holstein> xubuntu552: HUD? like the unity super menu?.. i use kupfer or synapse
[18:58] <knome> xubuntu552, The team decided that including or working with one should be postponed until after the long-term support (LTS) release ...
[18:59] <knome> but sure, there are options available for use
[18:59] <xubuntu552> i didnt mean an application launcher (i use synapse myself), but a way of searching though an applications menu, e.g. file, edit, etc.
[19:00] <holstein> xubuntu552: there are addons for synapse to search those things
[19:00] <xubuntu552> good to know that it's not totally out of the question
[19:00] <holstein> also, unity provides that functionality
[19:00] <xubuntu552> holstein: oh i dind't know that!!
[19:01] <xubuntu552> holstein: do you know the name of the plugin i could use to achieve such functionality?
[19:01] <holstein> xubuntu552: i use kupfer, and it just comes with that
[19:02] <holstein> xubuntu552: http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/77629.html seems to discuss
[19:03] <holstein> "I tend to avoid using Ubuntu's Unity desktop with its lack of menu and cluttered Heads Up Display (HUD). Synapse on Ubuntu supplants HUD-like functions. Using Synapse with any of the desktop options in other distros is quicker and simpler than using the menus" -from that page
[19:06] <xubuntu552> holstein: i'm just trying out kupfer right now. i'm trying the following: within thunar i activate kupfer and type "preferences". Out of the box it shows "Kupfer preferences" as first option.
[19:07] <holstein> i just found kupfer lighter, and back when i started using it, synapse was only available via PPA or custom and kupfer was in the repos. i think synapse is fine though
[19:08] <xubuntu552> holstein: yeah, synapse is pretty powerful, i find it's results to match what i'm trying to do better than any other tool, of course ymmv
[19:09] <xubuntu552> holstein: back to the "preferences" example: i'd expect kupfer to show the thunar "preferences" option that i'd find in the menu... maybe i have to activate a plugin, as it does not seem to offer that option out of the box
[19:10] <holstein> xubuntu552: not sure why things "just work" for me here.. i know i dont use it to search for files like that, so it could be that i dont hve it configured for that action
[19:11] <holstein> xubuntu552: its working as expected with no additions with pcmanFM here.. should be easier to support thunar
[19:13] <xubuntu552> holstein: i'm checking their plugins... actually was i was looking for was a more generic aproach, like with ubuntu's HUD. It just works with all (or almost all) GTK applications
[19:13] <xubuntu552> holstein: btw, thanks a lot for the tips, very much appreciated
[19:13] <holstein> xubuntu552: good luck.. thats definetely the way to go, rather than waiting on the distro to catch up to your specific needs
[22:41] <bnnk> hello
[22:42] <bnnk> Quick question, is there a terminal extension for linux that shows what you are doing but in terminal, like when you play video games you can see all thats happening, I want to learn unix and I think it would help if I saw how each process is done in the terminal, ^_^ hopefuly you get what I mean
[22:44] <TheSheep> bnnk: there is strace, but I doubt it will help you much, it's very low level
[22:45] <TheSheep> !info strace
[22:46] <charles720> hi
[22:46] <bnnk> ^_^ thanks
[22:46] <charles720> how do i find out if i accidentally moved files/folders ?
[22:46] <charles720> had thunar on sudo and the trackpad kinda reacted when it was not intended
[22:49] <charles720> can i somehow check system integrity for folders? if everything is there that needs to be there and in place?
[22:50] <David-A> bnnk: if you accidentaly moved a file and remember the filename you can search for it, e.g. with catfish
[22:50] <charles720> well the thing is.. since it was on accident i dont even know if i moved something
[22:51] <charles720> cause the trackpad reacted on accident
[22:51] <David-A> bnnk: ignore that ^^ it was for charles720
[22:51] <bnnk> ^^
[22:51] <David-A> charles720: see my msg to bnnk :)
[22:51] <charles720> ofc
[22:52] <charles720> i know in which folder it happend
[22:52] <charles720> usr/share
[22:52] <charles720> but thats all
[22:52] <charles720> around the x folders
[22:52] <David-A> bnnk: there is "top" to list a selection of the processes, their cpu and memory usage
[22:53] <charles720> even after reboot ?
[22:54] <charles720> well on the other hand everything still runs
[22:54] <bnnk> I am sorta for looking at things like the coding, if you can imagine one of those website software that views the code of the website, something like that, so when I move A file with my mouse I can see what sort of coding was done for that to happen... i am not even sure such software exists just wanted to ask
[22:54] <charles720> i guess i ll find out if i moved something
[22:54] <bnnk> I am drinking Jagermeister and learning linux ^^
[22:55] <charles720> thx
[22:55] <David-A> charles720: this lists all files created by a package: dpkg-query --listfiles PACKAGENAME
[22:55] <charles720> ah ok
[22:56] <David-A> charles720: theoretically you can make a long command line to check if any file of any installed package is missing, and crosscheck if any file exists that is not put there by a package.
[22:57] <charles720> does the content of the /usr/share folder vary much on different computers ?
[22:57] <charles720> i got 256 items in there
[22:57] <charles720> i hate those situations
[22:57] <charles720> ^^
[22:57] <charles720> so fuckin ridiculous ^^
[22:58] <charles720> you scroll down and suddenly you see something is grabbed and moved to another folder
[22:58] <charles720> no undo
[22:58] <charles720> bam
[22:58] <David-A> charles720: but there will be exceptions that are not errors, and files in different places can have the same base name, so probably a lot of intellectual work to figure it out in the end
[22:58] <charles720> where did it go
[22:58] <charles720> propably not worth it
[22:58] <charles720> i can rather reinstall the whole system
[22:58] <charles720> its pretty fresh
[22:58] <charles720> so
[22:59] <David-A> charles720: or reinstall the same packages in a virtual machine, and compare the dirs
[22:59] <charles720> how many items you got in /usr/share ??
[22:59] <David-A> charles720: (i have 442 subdirs and 2 symlinks in /usr/share)
[23:00] <charles720> dayum
[23:00] <charles720> hmm
[23:00] <charles720> could maybe check with the live usb
[23:00] <charles720> but i had some stuff installed afterwards
[23:01] <xubuntu991> I installed Xubuntu sometime ago ... on an ASUS laptop ... and the keyboard is very sensitive - acts erractic - often  - what can I do to correct this
[23:02] <xubuntu991> Under Windows 7 the keyboard worked ok - as expected
[23:02] <xubuntu991> any help iwelcome s
[23:05] <charles720> where do i have to look if i wanna change that xubuntu-greybird booting background ?
[23:05] <charles720> i changed quite some files
[23:05] <charles720> but it still shows
[23:07] <David-A> charles720: command list files that installed packages say should be in /usr/share:  dpkg-query --listfiles $(dpkg --get-selections | awk '$2=="install"{print $1}') | grep /usr/share | sort -u
[23:09] <charles720> aaaah.. awesome
[23:09] <charles720> so this shows what SHOULD be
[23:09] <charles720> cool
[23:11] <David-A> charles720: yes, but it is possible there should be files the package mgr does not know about, if they were created when a program was run and not during install. or someone forgot to specify it.
[23:11] <David-A> charles720: but there should not be many of those in /usr/share, i think
[23:12] <David-A> charles720: you still have a problem if many displaces subdirs or files have the same name.
[23:35] <charles720> well. apparently no folders where moved
[23:35] <charles720> all that are in the list in /usr/share are in usr/share in the filebrowser
[23:35] <charles720> which is a good thing i guess. so nothin was moved accidently it seems
[23:36] <charles720> even though it looked like it a bit
[23:36] <charles720> time to go to bed.. my eyes hurt now ^^
[23:36] <charles720> thx for the help
[23:40] <Guest14851> What would be causing "Display" to open every time my screen brightness changes?
[23:48] <jintonation> What would be causing "Display" to open every time my screen brightness changes