[04:33] <Kingtiger01> Hello Everyone
[04:38] <Kingtiger01> Hello, anyone around?
[04:39] <twb> !anyone > Kingtiger01
[04:41] <Kingtiger01> i have a question regarding Clusters...
[04:42] <Kingtiger01> just wondering if anyone has any articles in how to setup a cluster on *nix like OS for load balancing...
[04:43] <twb> load balancing of what?
[04:44] <twb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_balancing_(computing) cites both textbooks and external articles.  I can't vouch for any myself.
[04:47] <Kingtiger01> im locally hosting mysql/apache/XMPP. but individual services are starting to eat up enough cycles to overload I/O...
[04:48] <Kingtiger01> either can i, im new to clusters, im just starting to try and research about Beauwulf style clusters at the moment, trying to get ideas to alleviate some of this...
[04:49] <twb> It's spelt "beowulf".
[04:49] <Kingtiger01> i know... simple spelling error.
[04:50] <thorsten11> hello all
[04:50] <twb> Have you considered profiling your services to see if there are simple optimizations which will obviate the need for a load-balancing cluster?
[04:53] <Kingtiger01> To be honest, No. But, i will now considering it is a immediate step.
[04:58] <Kingtiger01> ill be back later...
[06:25] <artillerytx> every time i restart bind it tells me * the remote server is using an older version of the command protocol ...
[06:25] <artillerytx> not sure how to fix that
[06:35] <_ruben> im guessing your rndc and named executable are from different versions
[06:40] <artillerytx> ahh
[06:43] <artillerytx> so i need to regenerate a rdnc key
[06:44] <artillerytx> and paste it where it says
[06:46] <artillerytx> Its just #rndc-confgen
[06:46] <artillerytx> right
[06:46] <_ruben> the key isnt the problem, the executable is, or your time(zone) stuff is wrong, though that'd only matter when using rndc from a remote box
[06:46] <artillerytx> oh
[06:46] <_ruben> (judging from my experience that is, could be something else in your else)
[06:46] <_ruben> s/else/case/
[06:46] <artillerytx> well the only way i access the computer is with ssh on another computer
[06:47] <artillerytx> on the same network
[06:47] <_ruben> which versions do "named -v" and "rndc -v" report?
[06:48] <artillerytx> bind  9.5.1-P2
[06:48] <artillerytx> rndc 9.5.1-P2
[06:49] <_ruben> odd
[06:49] <artillerytx> well let me give you the full error i get when i do a "/etc/init.d/bind9 restart
[06:50] <artillerytx> http://pastebin.com/daf403d4
[06:50] <_ruben> the logs might show more (probably /var/log/daemon.log)
[06:52] <artillerytx> what am i looking for exactly
[06:52] <_ruben> ah, seems list of possible errors is slightly longer than what i've seen myself .. key and acl i hadnt thought of myself
[06:52] <_ruben> anything mentioned by "named" at the time of your attempted restart
[06:52] <twb> Is rndc a BIND-specific utility, or does it work with arbitrary DNS services?
[06:52] <_ruben> twb: its part of bind, so i'd assume the first
[06:53] <_ruben> as it uses a special secure control channel
[06:54] <_ruben> (re)running rndc-confgen -a might do the trick in this case, or double-check your bind config's settings for the control channel
[06:55] <artillerytx> i see a /etc/bind/named.conf couldn't add command channel <IP_ADDRESS>:953 address in use
[06:55] <_ruben> sounds like an old named process is still lingering around
[06:55] <_ruben> sudo killall named might do the trick (optionally with -9)
[06:56] <_ruben> gotta drop off car at the garage, be back in an hour or 2
[06:56] <artillerytx> k
[06:56] <artillerytx> do i add a 9
[06:56] <artillerytx> ?
[06:57] <artillerytx> ahh now i get rndc:connect failed: <IP_ADDRESS>#953: connection refused
[07:26] <LeChacal> hello, can someone tell me how to change the order in which modules are load? Or some way that I can get one module to load before another?
[07:29] <soren> LeChacal: Why?
[07:33] <LeChacal> i have a special mouse driver that i need to load before the usbhid module, and I need the usbhid module for my usb keyboard, and i think my APC UPS because installing the UPS started all the problems with my mouse not working. I am told by the mouse driver maker that usbhid takes over the mouse if it is loaded before the special driver. Before I got the UPS i would just unload both modules then load in the special mouse driver
[07:34] <LeChacal> and before you ask this isnt a server but i have been trying to find an answer for a while and no one has even tried to help me yet anywhere else.
[07:34] <ttx> soren: hey -- feeling better ?
[07:36] <LeChacal> i have searched google and found an old forum post saying that you can't change the order because udev randomize them at boot, but this was a post about 6.06
[07:40] <soren> ttx: Much.
[07:40] <ttx> soren: good :)
[07:41] <ttx> soren: I took the liberty to upload a new eucalyptus release so that my two fixes-of-the-day would make it in karmic before BetaFreeze.
[07:41] <soren> LeChacal: udev has never randomised anything.
[07:41] <ttx> opefully I did it correctly and didn't break anything
[07:41] <ttx> +h
[07:41] <soren> ttx: I can check?
[07:41] <ttx> soren: you can check what ? That I didn't break anything ? Sure :)
[07:42] <LeChacal> soren: this is what i found http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=304491
[07:42] <soren> LeChacal: I don't see the string "random" on there anywhere.
[07:42] <LeChacal> soren: last post and he says shuffling
[07:43] <LeChacal> soren: he does give a solution about block udev, but not fully knowing what udev does i didnt want to start playing with that
[07:44] <soren> LeChacal: Try this:
[07:44] <soren> LeChacal: Create a new file in /etc/modprobe.d/ (name whatever.conf)
[07:45] <soren> LeChacal: Add a single line to it:
[07:45] <soren> install usbhid /sbin/modprobe nameofyourspecialdriver ; /sbin/modprobe --ignore-install usbhid
[07:45] <soren> That ought to do it.
[07:48] <LeChacal> question, the first part "install" what is that doing if you dont mind me asking i understand the rest?
[07:49] <soren> Look at man 5 modprobe.conf
[07:50] <LeChacal> ok that makes since thank you, ill try that
[07:57] <soren> ttx: WEll, I could check that you did things correctly.
[07:58] <soren> ttx: ...and I think you did.
[07:58] <ttx> \o/
[07:58] <soren> So that's a good start.
[08:05]  * soren takes a short break
[08:06] <LeChacal> soren: thank you that worked perfectly
[08:19] <artillerytx> how does dreamhost have its server set up so that whenever you install a cms and it emails someone it has whatever email you gave the cms ...
[08:19] <artillerytx> I have my server running through gmail and it sends from only one account it seems
[09:02] <kinnaz> is there something like openbsds security script for ubuntu, what send the /etc/ file diffs to mail daily
[09:10] <johe> good morning
[09:22] <RoyK> good moaning
[10:15] <gamla_kossan> I'd liek to do a dist-upgrade, but.. how do I know what the next version will be then?
[10:16] <gamla_kossan> I'm thinking it's a little risky jumping from 7 to 9 directly
[10:16] <gamla_kossan> anyone have any htoughts on this?
[10:25] <_ruben> gamla_kossan: when upgrading you shouldnt skip versions (single exceptin: lts -> lts upgrades are supported)
[10:25] <_ruben> and upgrading using dist-upgrade isnt recommended either
[10:25] <_ruben> there's upgrade docs on the site
[10:26] <soren> gamla_kossan: What do you mean by 7 and 9?
[10:26] <kinnaz> do-release-upgrade is your friend :)
[10:26] <kinnaz> soloslinger,  7.x to 9x
[10:26] <kinnaz> soloslinger,  7.x to 9.x i bet
[10:26] <kinnaz> soren even
[10:26] <soren> 7.x and 9.x are both nonsense.
[10:27] <soren> 7.04 and 7.10 are vastly different releases, as are 9.04 and 9.10.
[10:27] <soren> I'm having a problem with quagga (ospf). :(
[10:28] <kinnaz> nonsense ?
[10:28] <soren> I've got two routers in my house (well, three really, but the last one is outside my control), and a machine that runs most of my virtual machines.
[10:28] <soren> kinnaz: Yes.
[10:28] <soren> kinnaz: I just explained it.
[10:28] <soren> 09:27:15 < soren> 7.04 and 7.10 are vastly different releases, as are 9.04 and 9.10.
[10:28] <soren> It makes no sense to speak of 7.x.
[10:28] <soren> Nor 9.x.
[10:29] <kinnaz> if you say so, for me it seems no nonsense
[10:29] <soren> So, I've set up quagga to speak ospf on the two routers and the host running the virtual machines.
[10:30] <kinnaz> i think you will have better luck with ospf in #networking
[10:30] <soren> Hmm... Possibly.
[10:32] <_ruben> quagga is somewhere down on my (way too large) todo list to investigate
[10:34] <kinnaz> for me the list says dynamic routing protocols in general
[10:35] <_ruben> kinnaz: kinda the same here, but with quagga in particular in mind :)
[10:35] <kinnaz> i have some hardware to play around for starters
[10:36] <_ruben> my hardware would be a set of vms most likely
[10:41] <soren> _ruben: It was too for me yesterday. Now it's on the list of stuff I use :)
[10:42] <_ruben> soren: hehe
[10:47] <\sh> ugh ospf...
[10:56] <maxagaz> how to know which video driver i'm using
[10:56] <maxagaz> it's not in xorg.conf
[11:07] <_ruben> -server doesnt tend to use xorg at all
[12:31]  * soren goes to lunch
[12:45] <gamla_kossan> soren: fair enough, from 7.04 to 9.04 then =)
[12:45] <gamla_kossan> kinnaz: thanks
[12:53] <_ruben> step by step .. 7.04 -> 7.10 -> 8.04 -> 8.10 -> 9.04 .. using do-release-upgrade for each step (assuming that it already existed back then)
[13:28] <soren> Whoo!
[13:28]  * soren finally got quagga/ospf working.
[13:28] <soren> Now I can access my virtual machines from anywhere in the house.
[13:29] <soren> Man... The pain!
[13:41] <zul> morning
[13:43] <smoser> soren, can you take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vm-builder/+bug/429106
[13:43] <smoser> and comment on file naming and such for kernels ?
[13:44] <smoser> soren, and just an fyi, i turned your crontab entries off on nectarine. now vmbuilder is doing the builds.
[13:45] <soren> smoser: Why wouldn't the kernel build be spitting those out?
[13:45] <smoser> splitting what out?
[13:45] <smoser> oh. it is spitting them out
[13:45] <soren> spitting. Not splitting.
[13:46] <soren> kernels and ramdisk.
[13:46] <smoser> well, kernel doesn't spit out ramdisk, but install does. the changes just collect them from the image
[13:46] <soren> What would VMbuilder be doing to them, then?
[13:46] <soren> I don't think this belongs in VMBuilder at all.
[13:46] <smoser> at the moment, vmbuilder doesn't do anything.
[13:46] <soren> Nor the automated build scripts.
[13:47] <smoser> well, we need to provide some way for people to easily get a kernel and an initramfs for uec images they've built
[13:47] <smoser> and saying "take it from /boot" is not sufficient in my opinion
[13:48] <soren> That's fair enough.
[13:48] <smoser> second, vmbuilder really *should* be involved, at very least with xen it should give the user a kernel and initrd to use.
[13:48] <soren> Eh?
[13:48] <smoser> (and should update the xen.conf and such)
[13:48] <soren> Are you talking about Xen or EC2?
[13:48] <smoser> there, i meant xen.
[13:48] <soren> Ok.
[13:49] <soren> Well, that may be reasonable. I've ask dozens of people how to do it (I don't use Xen myself), but noone could give me a straight answer.
[13:49] <smoser> i will agree that ec2 is less important to have the kernel/initramdisk outside the image
[13:50] <smoser> it is also true for the kvm case that it would be useful to offer the option to pull kernels from the image
[13:50] <smoser> so that the user can boot with -kernel / -initrd and -append as opposed to grub
[13:50] <soren> Why, oh why, would anyone want to do that?
[13:51] <soren> Mind you, it's called VMBuilder, not VMDisassembler.
[13:51] <soren> :p
[13:51] <smoser> hm... i dont know, maybe they're following instructions you wrote ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEC/Images/Testing
[13:51] <smoser> :)
[13:51] <soren> Ok, I'm clearly confused.
[13:51] <soren> You talk about extracting stuff from an image.
[13:52] <soren> kernel and ramdisk, I presume.
[13:52] <smoser> yes.
[13:52] <soren> Yet, the stuff I speak of on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEC/Images/Testing has neither in the images.
[13:52] <soren> So what exactly do you mean?
[13:52] <smoser> well, now the uec images do have a kernel/initrd in them.
[13:52] <soren> they... do?
[13:52] <soren> How did that happen?
[13:53] <smoser> yes. they have 2. linux-ec2 and linux-virtual
[13:53] <soren> But, but..
[13:53] <smoser> they need modules in them. modules are provided by kernel packages.
[13:53] <soren> Why would you stick a kernel and a ramdisk in there?
[13:53] <soren> Yes, and grub is our bootloader.
[13:53] <soren> Except on EC2 where everything is conveniently different.
[13:54]  * soren makes quotations marks in the air
[13:55] <smoser> i dont think its conveniently different enough to not use the existing kernel packaging.
[13:55] <smoser> we need modules. modules come in kernel packages. kernel packages are built for each kernel basically the same way.
[13:55] <smoser> the uec/ec2 images need kernel modules and for both ec2 (xen) and kvm (uec)
[13:56] <soren> Another reason why this really, really, really should not be preinstalled, but handled at boot time.
[13:57] <soren> Let me ask this way: Is this a temporary solution because we didn't have time to do it better for Karmic or is this The Plan[tm]?
[13:58] <smoser> i really dont know why it wouldn't be the plan.
[13:58] <soren> I can think if quite a few reasons:
[13:59] <smoser> if you were building an appliance to run on a full virtualization solution, it would absolutely be "the rigth way"
[13:59] <smoser> so, the only difference here is that the kernel and initrd are needed outside the image.
[13:59] <soren> If you're running on UEC, you have a huge stack of modules and stuff that you will never ever need taking up space.
[13:59] <soren> If you're running on EC2, you have a huge stack of modules and stuff that you will never ever need taking up space.
[13:59] <smoser> huge stack ~ = 20M
[13:59] <soren> 20?
[14:00] <soren> Package: linux-image-2.6.31-10-virtual
[14:00] <soren> Installed-Size: 32068
[14:01] <soren> Package: linux-image-2.6.31-300-ec2
[14:01] <soren> Installed-Size: 70388
[14:01] <soren> So that's 50% and 350% more than 20.
[14:01] <smoser> :)
[14:01] <soren> Respectively.
[14:01] <smoser> -ec2 will be trimmed
[14:01] <smoser> to basically be -virtual
[14:01] <smoser> so < 50
[14:01] <smoser> in your 10G root fs
[14:02] <smoser> err...
[14:02] <smoser> i obviosly have issues with math
[14:02] <smoser> each one wastes 302068
[14:02] <smoser> gar
[14:02] <smoser> so, ec2 will "waste" -virtual installation. 32M
[14:02] <zul> imho ideally for ec2 you just want a package that does the modules and no other kernel bits (except for maybe the config and the System.map)
[14:02] <smoser> and uec will "waste" the -ec2 installation. 32M
[14:03] <soren> Sorry, phone call.
[14:03] <smoser> zul, so, there, the "waste" that the current package has is the size of the kernel. 6M
[14:04] <smoser> its not perfect. i will completely agree to it being wasteful of < 40M for each case.
[14:04] <smoser> i think its a reasonable tradeoff to make user space work like the rest of ubuntu
[14:05] <smoser> ie, if you want to build a kernel module for your kernel, you can build one just like any other install
[14:05] <smoser> zul, and in your "just modules" package, we still need to somehow create and extract a kernel to upload to ec2.
[14:09] <soren> smoser: What's the plan for kernel upgrades=
[14:09] <soren> ?
[14:09] <smoser> i dont think this affects that at all.
[14:10] <soren> Uh...
[14:10] <soren> sure it does.
[14:10] <soren> You boot with another kernel, and boom, you have no modules for it.
[14:10] <soren> (and *two* useless sets of modules and kernels and stuff)
[14:10] <smoser> why/how were you booting with another kernel ?
[14:10] <soren> Because the new one had a secret backdoor in it that zul put ther.e
[14:10] <smoser> and not picking a new ami that was released with that new kernel and initrd
[14:10] <soren> Err.. The old one had.
[14:11] <soren> Because I rebundled, perhaps?
[14:11] <smoser> you can still boot with the new kernel and initrd. they're sufficient to mount root and start init, and then apt-get update && apt-get install linux-ec2
[14:11] <smoser> poof. modules.
[14:11] <zul> soren: if you mean by the xen patch then yes its been bacdoored ;)
[14:12] <smoser> i must have missed the backdoor in the 531,893 lines of patches :)
[14:12] <soren> Of course it has. It's a 20MB patch. It's the perfect plan. Noone is going to read through that.
[14:13] <soren> smoser: I'm very sorry, but I think this is the worst possible solution.
[14:13] <soren> I realise it works.
[14:13] <smoser> :). i can think of worse ones.
[14:13] <soren> Oh, sure, so can I, but of the ones that were actually seriously proposed..
[14:13] <smoser> why do you think its so bad? it works much more like everything else than any othe rsolution
[14:14] <smoser> consistency is extremely nice for all sorts of reasons.
[14:14] <soren> That really depends on your perspective.
[14:14] <soren> If you care more about the boot process being identical, then yes, this is more similar to everywhere else.
[14:15] <soren> If you care more the final system  being identical, then it's dissimilar.
[14:15] <smoser> i dont follow that.
[14:16] <smoser> the final system is much more similar. you can ask dpkg about "where did this module come from" or apt-get install -headers
[14:16] <soren> If we were to go the route of the initramfs hook that would copy the modules into the root filesystem, the user would end up with a system that is virtually indistinguishable from a regular one.
[14:16] <smoser> the user now has a system that is virtually indistinguisable from a regular one
[14:16] <soren> He can look at his uname info, know that he can find the appropriate modules in /lib/modules (and nothing else)..
[14:16] <smoser> and happens to use all sorts of common tools to get there.
[14:16] <soren> How they landed there are an implementation detail.
[14:17] <smoser> ok, so pretend for a moment, that i dont care that i have a bunch of files in /lib that were not installed by the package manager
[14:17] <soren> Good point about package management.
[14:17] <smoser> what benefits are provided ?
[14:17] <soren> In that case you could have done the apt-get trick on boot.
[14:18] <alonswartz> Hey guys. With reference to MySQL InnoDB, I have come across the issue "ib_logfile0 is of different size". All forum posts seem to recommend deleting the logfiles once the mysql service has been shutdown as the logfiles will be recreated. The problem is that this issue keeps on repeating itself so I was wondering what could be the cause, and how safe is it to constantly remove the logfiles...
[14:18] <alonswartz> ...prior to mysql start?
[14:18] <soren> smoser: By what, sorry?
[14:19] <smoser> the only benefit i see to the additional work is that you can flip flop kernels and initrds around with wreckless abandon.  kernel/ramdisk and root are more detached from one another.
[14:19] <smoser> but, as i pointed out, that is quite easy with the other route
[14:19] <smoser> the only negative i see in what i have right now is 32M of wasted space
[14:20] <smoser> (and i will bring it up just to be fair... apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade inside the image is going to pull new kernels and waste network traffic)
[14:20] <soren> I think the ability to replace the kernel is hugely important.
[14:20] <smoser> you can do that.
[14:20] <smoser> didn't i point that out ?
[14:20] <soren> Yes, you /can/. It's just more of a hassle than it ought to be.
[14:21] <smoser> its no more a hassle than it is on any other linux distribution that i've ever dealt with
[14:21] <smoser> :)
[14:21] <soren> This is one thing we actually had the opportunity to make /better/.
[14:22] <smoser> i dont think so. i think we have the opportunity to make different. i dont really understand how its better ?
[14:22] <smoser> what use case is it better for ?
[14:22] <soren> Security problem in the kernel => Boot with a different one, and you're done.
[14:22] <smoser> the strongest argument i can think of is that it makes non-ubuntu distributions more easily able to use ubuntu kernels and initramfs because they dont have to use alien
[14:23] <smoser> soren, security problem in the kernel, boot with a different one and your done.... versus "boot with a different on and run 'apt-get install linux-ec2'"
[14:23] <gamla_kossan> _ruben: cheers!
[14:23] <smoser> which could easily be done from ec2-init
[14:24] <smoser> if it detected it was running a kernel that did not have modules installed
[14:24] <gamla_kossan> _ruben: yey! it does!
[14:24] <gamla_kossan> ^_^
[14:26] <smoser> for the record, i did not believe that i was being at all subversive in doing this. i thought that you(soren) were aware.
[14:26] <soren> smoser: That would make me somewhat happier.
[14:26] <smoser> it would probably make pitti less happy
[14:26] <_ruben> gamla_kossan: you managed to upgrade all the way?
[14:26] <soren> smoser: Hm? Why?
[14:26] <gamla_kossan> _ruben: oh nono, I haven't touched that part yet
[14:27] <gamla_kossan> need to do some serious dd-ing of the hd in question
[14:27] <_ruben> ah
[14:27] <gamla_kossan> it's  a vital piece of infrastructure, the box I'mma do it on
[14:27] <smoser> the ec2-init MIR. he doesn't like that we do non-standard things (or allow for them to be done) in ec2-init.
[14:27] <gamla_kossan> but at least do-release-upgrade is on it =)
[14:27] <smoser> i would welcome your comments and help there. i think i've failed to do a good job of explaining the need for ec2-init.
[14:28] <smoser> bug 434963
[14:28] <smoser> hmm.. that doesn't look right
[14:28] <smoser> bug 434693
[14:28] <smoser> thats better.
[14:30] <soren> smoser: Wow, yeah, pitti is annoyed.
[14:31] <soren> smoser: ...and really doesn't get it, apparantly.
[14:33] <smoser> yeah, i tihnk i failed to describe what its used for
[14:35] <smoser> i just hit 'send' on a reply.
[14:36] <smoser> i initially wrote him off-bug, because i was afraid of long winded confusing bug
[14:36] <smoser> but apparently that was unavoidable
[14:37] <smoser> apparently launchpad wraps lines at less than 74 chars
[14:38] <soren> Hopefully at 72.
[14:38] <soren> Anything other than that would be silly.
[14:38] <smoser> funny. i always thought that 74 was the correct number. it seems we're argumentative today. hope you're not still feeling ill
[14:38] <soren> I wasn't.
[14:38] <soren> Now I am.
[14:38] <smoser> and regarding launchpad, if i shrink the font, it doesn't wrap
[14:39] <soren> Oh, you're right. Yes, that's much more pleasing to read.
[14:39] <smoser> that seems reasonable (not wrapping when i shrink) except for that there is like 2 inches of whitespace inside the comment box to the  right
[14:39] <smoser> ie, the comment box wasn't forcing the wrapping
[14:54] <smoser> soren, you want to confirm bug 435905
[14:54] <smoser> as i think you're seeing it too
[14:55] <soren> odne
[14:55] <soren> done, even.
[14:58] <smoser> soren, so what do i need to do to make you karmic-happy regarding kernel and initrd.  note, that we need to have a solution for this.
[15:01] <soren> smoser: A promise that you will never blame me for any ot.
[15:01] <soren> of it.
[15:01]  * soren wonders about the accuracy of this keyboard.
[15:01] <gamla_kossan> I must say, this channel is very very nice. esp when compared to #ubuntu. that channel is no fun at all :/
[15:01] <gamla_kossan> =)
[15:05] <soren> It can be a bit... much.
[15:06] <zul> soren: we cant promise it ;)
[15:17] <smoser> i really try to avoid making promises about my future behavior
[15:17] <smoser> but I guess I can just deny making the promise later, so, sure.
[15:18] <soren> Great. Then do whatever you want.
[15:49] <aubre> ladies and gentlemen, after applying the last karmic alpha 6 patches, I am now running instances in my local cloud
[15:50] <smoser> soren, just to be clear above, i do give your rights to say "i told you so".
[15:50] <smoser> aubre, awesome
[15:50] <aubre> I can't ssh into them yet, but I am running them hehe
[15:50] <aubre> smoser: thanks
[15:51] <aubre> I use my private key, but it still wants a password for user ubuntu
[15:51] <soren> smoser: And I have permission to gorge your eye out with a rusty spoon in response.
[15:51] <smoser> in response to your saying "i told you so" ? i dont think that makes sense.
[15:51] <aubre> I do however feel like I just hit 88 mph in a specially customized DeLorean
[15:51] <smoser> and i am fairly attached to my eyes
[15:52] <soren> smoser: Oh. I completely misread :)
[15:52] <aubre> we need him to have his eyes because it makes reviewing code much easier
[15:52] <soren> smoser: I thought you were suggesting that /you/ had the right to say "I told you so". :)
[15:53] <smoser> well no, not until we decide my idea was bad, and we try your idea, and its bad too
[15:53] <smoser> *then* i get to say i told you so
[15:53] <soren> smoser: We'll see :)
[15:54] <soren> aubre: The fun doesn't start until eighty-eight *point eight* mph. You should give it a go. :)
[15:54] <aubre> soren: well do
[15:54] <smoser> thats funny. i missed the reference until just now.
[15:54] <smoser> 1.21Gw
[15:54] <aubre> soren : will do.
[15:55] <aubre> I think I won't be going back from this future :)
[15:55] <aubre> thanks to everyone for the help to get to this point, and thanks in advance for the help you'll be giving me to get it into production lol
[15:57] <smoser> shoot. what a pita.
[15:58] <smoser> i just realized that we can't check for the metadata service to decide whether or not ec2-init should do anything
[15:58] <smoser> because we might be on ec2 and the metadata service just not there yet
[16:00] <smoser> soren, so, you want to list things you thought we could check for ? i know you suggested certain /proc/cmdline contents (splash, root=UUID...)
[16:00] <smoser> anything else?
[16:00] <kinnaz> soren, got your ospf working ?
 in other news, i'd like to suggest to the euca2ools people that they make it work slower.  each time i run euca-describe-instances pointed at ec2 and it comes back in < 4 seconds, i dont trust it worked.</not-serious>
[16:02] <smoser> I'm too used to ec2-describe-instances taking some time to accomplish such tasks
[16:03] <soren> kinnaz: I did.
[16:03] <kinnaz> soren,  problem was in that bridge ? or wifi ?
[16:04] <aubre> I do have to say that the instance went from pending to running in a very fast amount of time
[16:09] <soren> kinnaz: Some kind of multicast weirdness with my wifi setup, yes.
[16:09] <huats> soren: hey :)
[16:10] <huats> how are you ?
[16:10] <soren> huats: I'm on a call right now :)
[16:10] <huats> ok
[16:10] <huats> sorry :)
[16:10] <huats> I'll come back to bother you later :)
[16:14] <aubre> I just got in :)
[16:14] <aubre> on the Eucalyptus supplied image you go in as user root
[16:15] <aubre> ssh -i /home/clouduser/.euca/mykey root@hostname
[16:23] <smoser> soren, suggestions for "is this not running in ec2" ?
[16:23] <soren> smoser: Sorry, on a call at the moment.
[16:24] <smoser> take your time
[16:26] <metalf8801> Hi I need to set up a NAS (Network-attached storage) at my apartment to back up my computers (laptop, Desktop, olpc netbook) I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to use Ubuntu server to do this or if I should use something like FreeNAS?  I've set up Ubuntu Lamp servers before so I have a little experience using Ubuntu Server but I've never used any kind of a NAS
[16:30] <jmarsden> metalf8801: I'd expect a Ubuntu server solution to be somewhat more flexible than FreeNAS, but perhaps a bit more work to configure.  If you are already familiar with Ubuntu Server, and you don't mind configuring it using the command line, I'd say use it :)
[16:40] <MagicFab> metalf8801, Ubuntu server will propose a "Samba File server" task at install time, so it's trivial and fast to set that up.
[16:40] <MagicFab> or sudo apt-get install samba-server^ (yes, with "^") if your server is already up.
[16:41] <metalf8801> oh ok so I don't need to add anything to Ubuntu server after I install Samba file server?
[16:41] <MagicFab> no out-of-the-box nice web UI however
[16:43] <MagicFab> you can install E-Box (package name: ebox) and manage some of it, see http://trac.ebox-platform.com/
[16:44] <MagicFab> Not sure what version of eBox we have in  Ubuntu though
[16:44] <MagicFab> I'd try it on a virtual machine first if I were you
[16:44] <metalf8801> yeah I will try it on Virtualbox first
[16:44] <metalf8801> Um but what is E-Box?
[16:47] <MagicFab> "<MagicFab> you can install E-Box (package name: ebox) and manage some of it, see http://trac.ebox-platform.com/"
[16:47] <Pici> !ebox
[16:48] <metalf8801> oh ok I've used webmin before does ebox have advantages over webmin?
[17:09] <jmarsden> metalf8801: ebox is officialy Ubuntu-compatible, webmin is not.  That's a pretty serious advantage.
[17:09] <jmarsden> Note the "It is designed to work with Ubuntu/Debian style configuration management." in the above factoid from ubottu
[17:09] <soren> smoser: I have some code that can determine wheter you're running in a VM.
[17:10] <soren> smoser: I can dig that out for you this evening or tomorrow morning.
[17:10] <metalf8801> ok I'll make a point of trying e-box thanks
[17:10] <smoser> soren, you have a vague description of how ?
[17:10] <giovani> soren: what method are you using to determine that? -- there are many
[17:11] <soren> giovani: For KVM, there's a CPUID leaf that reveals it.
[17:11] <giovani> ok, so it's KVM-specific
[17:11] <smoser> soren, http://paste.ubuntu.com/277210/ is what i have
[17:11] <soren> For Xen... I don't remember what it does. I seem to remember it's more than just looking for /proc/xen, but that would probably be sufficient as well.
[17:11] <smoser> and we need nmore then just knowing if we're in a vm
[17:12] <smoser> presense of /proc/xen would not indicate yes or no for "is this ec2"
[17:12] <soren> ...
[17:12] <soren> I know.
[17:12] <soren> You don't need to tell me that.
[17:12] <smoser> ok. well take a look at that pb url
[17:12] <soren> As I've said /many/ times, I'm looking for tells that we're /NOT/ on EC2 or UEC.
[17:13] <smoser> right.
[17:13] <soren> Not being in a VM is a pretty good indication that you're not in either of those.
[17:13] <smoser> so i suppose if we're "not in a vm" then you could sy "this is not ec2"
[17:13] <smoser> but i'm hesitant on that, because really in a full virt situaltion (uec) you shouldn't necissarily know that
[17:14] <soren> Sure you do.
[17:14] <soren> As I just said...
[17:14] <soren> 16:11:03 < soren> giovani: For KVM, there's a CPUID leaf that reveals it.
[17:14] <smoser> you're saying that in the current implementation of kvm, a guest kernel can figure out if its in a vm or not.
[17:15] <smoser> i'm saying that, to me, that isn't something that should be relied upon, as it may at some point be a feature of kvm to *not* indicate such things to guests
[17:17] <soren> Well, Amazon may also start using real hardware.
[17:17] <soren> With wlan in them.
[17:17] <smoser> but if you think otherwise, we can definitly add a check like "if I do not appear to be running in a virtual machine, then I am not not xen".
[17:17] <soren> And 17 other nics.
[17:17] <smoser> thats a fair statement.
[17:18] <soren> As fair as yours.
[17:18] <smoser> i wasn't being sarcastic. i agree. it is fair.
[17:18] <soren> Well, I don't.
[17:18] <soren> :)
[17:18] <clusty> hey
[17:18] <smoser> also, do you get "/proc/xen" if your running a para-virt kernel ?
[17:19] <clusty> i am having yet another problem with LDAP user auth
[17:19] <soren> Yes.
[17:19] <smoser> or whatever that test would be?.
[17:19] <clusty> i restarted the LDAP server machine and now the clients wont auth no more. i restared a client by hand and it works again
[17:19] <smoser> yeah... ok now i'm sorry. i have to nix your solution
[17:19] <clusty> this leads me to believe that PAM-LDAP is keeping a persistent connection to ldap and will nto reconnect
[17:19] <clusty> clue how to fix without a reboot?
[17:20] <smoser> as if someone is running this vm with ec2-init in a virtualbox or vmware, or some other VM
[17:21] <smoser> they would not necissarily have such things. and i think that is a likely situation.
[17:24]  * soren has to go to dinner and stuff
[17:32] <Jad> hello, i read that ubuntu server supports cloud computing. is this like virtualization where multiple users can have multiple remote desktop connection to the same server or is it something entirely different?
[17:32] <Jad> maybe it means that one application can run on multiple servers like windows azuri
[17:32] <Jad> *azure
[17:36] <erichammond> smoser, soren: Good points in the discussion about kernel modules on EC2 images.  I'm happy with either the current (just added) way or with initrd copying them in.  Both have their benefits and drawbacks as you listed.
[17:37] <smoser> thanks for reading.
[17:37] <erichammond> smoser, soren: If you're trying to detect whether ec2-init is on EC2 in order to decide if it should run, then I would again propose the following:
[17:39] <erichammond> ec2-init is inert when initially installed as a package.  It requires a positive, conscious action to enable the startup scripts.  This could be done with a config file tweak or an explicit command which bumbling users would never accidentally run.
[17:39] <erichammond> This solves the problem Martin listed of users accidentally installing the package to check it out and having their ssh host keys overwritten.
[17:39] <erichammond> vmbuilder can easily tweak a file or run a command after installing the ec2-init package.
[17:39] <erichammond> .
[17:40] <smoser> that is true, and quite simple.
[17:42] <smoser> there are 2 things i see as an issue with that
[17:42] <smoser> 1. is that, then if someone takes the uec image (which has ec2-init set to active), and runs it under kvm on their system to debug, it will time out on first boot (which is annoying to me)
[17:43] <smoser> 2. it doesn't give us some way to tell "am I on ec2", only "did someone tell me I was on ec2"
[17:47] <smoser> erichammond, thoughts on that?
[17:48] <smoser> 1 is fairly easily workaroundable by allowing a "not-on-ec2" cmdline to force ec2 into inert mode
[17:49] <erichammond> smoser: There was a thread a long time ago on http://ec2forum.notlong.com about how to tell if you're on EC2.  As I recall, there was no good answer, but they were looking at it from a proof perspective instead of a "most likely" perspective so there might still be good ideas there for (2).
[17:49] <smoser> 2 isn't really that big of a deal, other than that we were hoping to use this script to run otherplaces (ie, in the apport hook). it would be nice to have more truthful indication of the environment as opposed to a statement of how the OS is configured
[17:50] <erichammond> I haven't thought about (1).
[17:53] <smoser> wonder if soren can read that. i think its much simpler than a bunch of circumstantial guessing
[17:55] <zul> why not just query the metadata service the very first thing you do and then exit?
[17:56] <smoser> because the metadata service might not be there
[17:56] <smoser> "yet"
[17:57] <smoser> or, the non-ec2 user may have firewall configured such that attempts to reach http://<IP_ADDRESS>/ may just hang , causing annoying long timeout
[18:09] <dendrobates> kirkland: if I reinstall but keep my home partinion and do not reformat it, will I have any problems with my encrypted home dirs?
[18:09] <kirkland> dendrobates: depends...  jaunty install or karmic install?
[18:09] <dendrobates> karmic
[18:09] <kirkland> dendrobates: more specifically, do you have anything in /var/lib/ecryptfs/* ?
[18:10] <clusty> how can I run apt-get dist-upgrade so that it answers yes to everything?
[18:10] <clusty> i want to be able to upgrade a whole bunch of machines from a script
[18:10] <dendrobates> kirkland: don't even have that dir.
[18:10] <kirkland> dendrobates: you're fine, as long as there's nothing in /var/lib/ecryptfs/*
[18:10] <kirkland> dendrobates: yup, then you're fine
[18:11] <dendrobates> kirkland: cool thanks.
[18:11] <kirkland> dendrobates: the key is that you have all of your config and encrypted data in /home/.ecryptfs/$USER
[18:11] <smoser> clusty, DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive apt-get install --assume-yes
[18:11] <clusty> smoser, thanks
[18:12] <dendrobates> kirkland: I saw that, but I was still hesitant.  Should I tell the installer to encrypt or not when I install?
[18:12] <kirkland> dendrobates: not
[18:12] <dendrobates> kirkland: thanks
[18:13] <kirkland> dendrobates: no problem; i haven't tested this use case yet, but others have
[18:13] <kirkland> dendrobates: but i'm going to setup my next install this way
[18:14] <dendrobates> kirkland: I would love to have the ability to auto encrypt and decrypt external drives.  any plans to extend the integration to usb drives?
[18:15] <kirkland> dendrobates: hrm, depends on what you mean...
[18:15] <clusty> smoser, DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive apt-get dist-upgrade --assume-yes ?
[18:15] <kirkland> dendrobates: of course, you can add an ecryptfs entry in your /etc/fstab
[18:16] <kirkland> dendrobates: and a udev rule
[18:16] <smoser> maybe. (i only did the 'install' recently)
[18:16] <smoser> but probably.
[18:17] <clusty> worked thanks
[18:17] <clusty> the welcome screen still shows: 5 packages to be installed
[18:17] <clusty> who knows what caused it to not update...
[18:19] <dendrobates> kirkland: yeah, I could, but not everyone could, and it would be nice to mark a drive as encrypted and for udev to decrypt it automatically when it sees that uuid.
[18:19] <dendrobates> kirkland: great work though, I am loving ecryptfs.
[18:19] <kirkland> dendrobates: i see; file an upstream feature request ;-)
[18:20] <kirkland> dendrobates: good to hear, me too :-)
[18:20] <kirkland> dendrobates: that article should be published in next month's Linux Magazine
[18:59] <tyabux> is it ok to have a complete coud with only one machine? That is, one phyiscal box running eucalyptus-cloud, eucalyptus-cc and eucalyptus-nc?
[19:03] <smoser> well, for anyone still playing at home, this is what i have right now. erichammond, zul, soren http://paste.ubuntu.com/277296/
[19:04] <zul> smoser: uh what is it? :)
[19:04] <smoser> we'll just change vm-builder to write 'active=1' (or some other var that we agree on) to /etc/ec2-init/ec2-config.cfg
[19:04] <zul> ah ok
[19:04] <zul> cool
[19:05] <smoser> w'll call that early in /etc/init.d/ec2-init to determine "am i turned on"
[19:06] <zul> why the switches? since its a apart of the init script
[19:08] <smoser> it will be a standalone program
[19:08] <smoser> and usable by anything else that wanted to check
[19:10] <zul> gotcha
[19:22] <bnjmn> i'm using a 64-bit ami and i want to replace the 64-bit python with a 32-bit one. whats the easiest way to do this?
[19:28] <smoser> hm...
[19:40] <zoopster> tyabux: you can run all of UEC on one computer, however there are limitations to the modes you can use, obviously
[20:55] <zul_> back later
[20:57] <ruben23> hi can i increase the storage size of my /opt/ directory on my linux server..?------->http://pastebin.com/m32a9a22
[20:58] <ruben23> anyone have idea
[21:06] <mushroomblue> anyone have any tips on how to resize an LVM partition?
[21:07] <mushroomblue> I have 4 drives attached, but only two are being used.
[21:11] <domas> mushroomblue: lvresize ?
[21:11] <domas> mushroomblue: add disks to VG first
[21:12] <mushroomblue> the disks have been added.
[21:12] <mushroomblue> so maybe lvresize is what I needed. thanks.
[21:26] <Daviey> smoser: is iptables expected to work in ec2?
[21:26] <smoser> i would have expected so, yes.
[21:26] <smoser> i do not know otherwise
[21:27] <Daviey> ERROR: problem running iptables: FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.31-300-ec2/modules.dep: No such file or directory
[21:27] <Daviey> iptables v1.4.4: can't initialize iptables table `filter': iptables who? (do you need to insmod?)
[21:27] <Daviey> Perhaps iptables or your kernel needs to be upgraded.
[21:27] <Daviey> we can haz bug.
[21:27] <smoser> where do you see this ?
[21:28] <smoser> what ami
[21:28] <Daviey> latest alpha, one moment
[21:29] <Daviey> ami-fa658593
[21:29] <smoser> what did you run that caused that ?
[21:30] <smoser> oh
[21:30] <Daviey> sudo iptables -L
[21:30] <smoser> soryr
[21:30] <smoser> i know
[21:30] <Daviey> or even sudo ufw status
[21:30] <smoser> for some reason i was thinking the alpha6 had this fixed
[21:30] <smoser> you need to 'apt-get update && apt-get install linux-ec2'
[21:30] <smoser> that is fixed now
[21:31] <smoser> (now as in post yesterday)
[21:34] <Daviey> smoser: ok, upgrading linux-ec2 yields:
[21:34] <Daviey> http://erk.daviey.com/ec2-1.png
[21:34] <Daviey> http://erk.daviey.com/ec2-2.png
[21:34] <Daviey> is it fair to assume these are transient?
[21:35] <smoser> yeah, just hit enter. there is a bug on that... let me find that number.
[21:36] <Daviey> yeah, didn't realise there was a bug on it.
[21:36] <smoser> grub is bug 434755
[21:36] <Daviey> solved the module.
[21:36] <smoser> modules is bug 429169
[21:59] <howie> how do i port forward vnc in shorwall to a box on the local network?


[08:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3902 Preparing packages
[08:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3902 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[09:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3902 Failed to build
[15:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- rbalint, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3798 Abandoning ticket
[16:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- rbalint, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3801 Pending binary packages
[17:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- rbalint, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3801 Successfully built
[19:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3902 Pending binary packages
[20:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3902 Diff missing
[21:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- rbalint, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3801 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination


[00:07] <bazhang> whoa jnels returned
[00:33] <ikonia> night - it seems to be a stupid response to sensible question hour so I'm out
[00:38] <bazhang> night
[01:06] <MRToilet> you cant see me
[01:07] <LjL> oh quit it, imbecile
[01:07] <MRToilet> LjL, you cant see me ethier
[01:07] <LjL> i wish i couldn't
[01:07] <LjL> what weird sort of comcast host is that by the way
[01:07] <MRToilet> what
[01:08] <MRToilet> rgibmerrial?
[01:08] <MRToilet> i have no idea
[01:08] <MRToilet> prob my new router
[01:08] <MRToilet> my old dlink died
[01:08] <MRToilet> anyways you cant see me
[01:08] <Flannel> MRToilet: How can we help you today?
[01:09] <MRToilet> just do you usual
[01:09] <Flannel> MRToilet: And that is?
[01:10] <MRToilet> what ljl does best
[01:10] <LjL> play globulation?
[01:10] <MRToilet>  /ban MRTOILET
[01:10] <MRToilet> duh
[01:10] <LjL> it's /b
[01:10] <MRToilet> w/e
[01:10] <LjL> or /be, depending on which part of the mask i want to ban
[01:11] <Flannel> MRToilet: If there's nothing we can help you with today, please don't idle here.
[01:11] <LjL> you're talkative for someone who can't be seen, by the way
[01:11] <MRToilet> how the hell did my ip get rgibmerrill
[01:11] <nalioth> MRToilet: is there something we can help you with?
[01:11] <MRToilet> nah
[01:11] <MRToilet> just kick me
[01:11] <MRToilet> banning me would make my day
[01:11] <nalioth> i think you know how to /part channels
[01:12] <MRToilet> nah i am jus gonna idle here
[01:12] <nalioth> as you wish
[01:12] <MRToilet> k-lineing me would be the best
[01:13] <MRToilet> only kicked lol
[01:17] <MRToilet> finally
[01:17] <Seeker`> hi njan
[01:17] <MRToilet> just kline me and get it done with
[01:18] <LjL> how's about we debate the merits of NTFS vs FAT12 instead
[01:18] <bazhang> jnels?
[01:18] <MRToilet> yup thats me
[01:18] <LjL> no, NTFS
[01:18] <LjL> well, yes
[01:18] <LjL> same difference
[01:18] <MRToilet> pottytheshitter too
[01:18] <bazhang> aww
[01:19] <nalioth> don't you love self-enablers?
[01:19] <bazhang> hehe
[01:20] <Seeker`> I don't understand why he was here for so long
[03:11]  * jussi01 wonders what that was all about...
[03:13] <Seeker`> what what was?
[03:13] <jussi01> Seeker`: the aptly named MRToilet
[03:13]  * jussi01 grumbles at being awake at 5am
[03:17] <Seeker`> :(
[03:44] <Seeker`> I think almost 4am may be bedtime
[04:57] <jussi01> incoming
[04:58] <jussi01> hrm, my forward alias is borked... must fix that...
[05:00]  * jussi01 is assuming no one but me is alive atm...
[05:28]  * mneptok rises from the grave
[05:28] <mneptok> braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaains
[06:51]  * nalioth tips mneptok back in and calls in the backhoe
[09:00] <Flannel> the -x team has a PPA for the intel driver issues, among others.  See jcastros planet post
[10:15] <elky> Flannel, it was posted to -devel. unless there's been updates overnight, it does *nothing* for eeepc701s
[10:15]  * elky checks
[10:16] <elky> nope, nothing
[10:17] <elky> apparently we need a .30 kernel before it'll fix or something
[10:22] <elky> i also find it amusing that the proprietary wifi driver b0rks the wifi on the eeepc now. the libre one is required
[10:48] <popey> 28
[10:48] <popey> bah
[10:54] <|_ocke> i can always chat
[10:55] <|_ocke> i'm just trying to provide some relevant help on a program that i teach for a living
[10:55] <elky> and we just want to make sure you're not going to relapse
[10:55] <|_ocke> no, i'm not
[10:55] <|_ocke> i know i've done some stupid stuff in the past
[10:55] <jussi01> |_ocke: I thought we agreed last time you would stay off IRC after drinking?
[10:55] <|_ocke> but
[10:56] <|_ocke> i've only had about 4 beers, i'm not drunk at all tonight
[10:56] <|_ocke> and i quit doing all other drugs as well
[10:56] <|_ocke> if you'll give me a chance, you'll see i'm a completely different person now
[10:57] <|_ocke> i have 2 entirely different personalities
[10:57] <|_ocke> one when i'm sober
[10:57] <|_ocke> and one when i'm gone
[10:57] <|_ocke> not just on alcohol, but other things as well
[10:58] <|_ocke> but i quit doing all other things except for beer
[10:58] <jussi01> |_ocke: you just blamed your swearing on the alcohol..
[10:58] <|_ocke> that was a slip and i apologize for that
[10:58] <|_ocke> but i will not under any circumstances end up talking about the kind of stuff that i got banned for several times before because i was inebriated
[10:59] <jussi01> |_ocke: I suggest for your own good you take a short break from #ubuntu-offtopic - I wont enforce it, but its a suggestion
[10:59] <jussi01> also
[10:59] <|_ocke> i really value being a part of this network and these channels, and i feel very rewarded when i can help somebody get something working in linux that they didnt have working before
[10:59] <jussi01> !enter | |_ocke
[11:00] <|_ocke> that one is hard for me, i hit enter when i'm done with a sentence
[11:00] <elky> try to not do it before 'and'
[11:01] <jussi01> |_ocke: that one comes a little more naturally if you read the sentence back before sending it - which also helps with content management ;)
[11:01] <|_ocke> but, i'm a teacher as my profession, and i teach computer programs, and also hardware, i teach an A+ cert class and network+ class, and security+ class (all compTIA certs) and i take great pride in teaching people something that they can actually use and that will be of value to them for the rest of their lives, or at least until the technology becomes obsolete
[11:02] <|_ocke> it makes me feel good to impart useful knowledge on others, especially when it is knowledge that they are seeking
[11:03] <jussi01> |_ocke: Im just trying to make sure you dont get banned again. You can discuss that stuff if you feel like.
[11:03] <|_ocke> at work, the people who i teach are seeking general knowledge on the specific program they're taking a class on. but in here, people are seeking specific knowledge on the individual item or problem they're having a problem with
[11:03] <|_ocke> jussi01, i hope that you will see if you keep talking to me, that I'm a different person than i was before
[11:04] <jussi01> |_ocke: you are very verbal, I dont need to know all that. just try behave ok? :)
[11:04] <|_ocke> i've completely sworn off of the drugs that i was on before, and now i only drink beer. not even hard alcohol
[11:04] <|_ocke> jussi01, i like to explain myself
[11:04] <|_ocke> once again, i'm a teacher by profession, my job is to talk for 8 hours every day
[11:05] <|_ocke> so i am used to that, and i explain everything regardless of whether i'm at work or not
[11:06] <|_ocke> i totally understand why you guys banned me before, what i said back then was totally inappropriate and i deserved to be banned
[11:06] <|_ocke> i don't want to offend anybody, i just had bad judgement
[11:08] <elky> |_ocke, did you see jussi01's last message?
[11:09] <|_ocke> and while my life still happens, and i still have several things going on irl that are at least as crazy if not crazier than the things that i talked about before, i am now sober enough to know what is appropriate to talk about in these channels and what is not
[11:09] <elky> clearly not.
[11:09] <|_ocke> yes i did, i just feel the need to justify myself
[11:10] <|_ocke> and demonstrate that i can do it without being inappropriate
[11:10] <elky> |_ocke, you still need to work on respecting others. We did not want your life story, no matter how much you feel the need to justify.
[11:10] <elky> when you're asked to stop, as you have been, you need to stop.
[11:10] <|_ocke> ok, i'm sorry
[11:10] <elky> that's the common denominator to your problems with us, the inability to stop.
[11:10] <|_ocke> i didn't intend it to be like that
[11:11] <|_ocke> i feel bad about the things that i've said before in these channels
[11:11] <elky> now, you were only asked here to be warned, and you've been warned. you may now return to what you were doing before, and keep what was said here in mind.
[11:11] <|_ocke> i felt like i needed to prove that i'm not doing what i did before.. sorry.. i'm done
[11:23] <elky> |_ocke, you dont need to stay here.
[11:24] <|_ocke> ok
[11:24] <|_ocke> later
[11:40] <bazhang> @bansearch sidewalk
[12:09] <elky> floodbot, once about 10 months ago
[12:15] <bazhang> yep
[13:06] <elky> panarchy is back online
[13:06] <ikonia> yes
[13:07] <ikonia> he was a jerk yesterday telling the channel to type /clear and other such issues
[13:07] <ikonia> he has not changed at all
[13:07] <elky> ikonia, you'll note that i brought him here to discuss it.
[13:07] <ikonia> yup
[13:08] <ikonia> ahh he signed out
[13:08] <elky> watch out for pseudo then
[13:08] <ikonia> yup, he's back anywawy
[13:13] <ikonia> cross posting again
[13:13] <ikonia> what a fool
[13:15] <ikonia> just hit ##windows ##windows-server ##c ##c++ to ask about desktop colours ???
[13:22] <elky> he didnt cross post into #u though.
[13:22] <ikonia> nope
[13:22] <elky> which means he didnt break our rules in our channels.
[13:22] <ikonia> didn't say he did
[13:22] <ikonia> just said he was behaving like a jerk
[13:23] <elky> except you banned him for it?
[13:23] <ikonia> nope
[13:23] <ikonia> I banned him for not removing the auto join "/me panarchy says hi script"
[13:23] <elky> ah
[13:23] <ikonia> I asked him 3 times - kicked him as a warning and he did it 2 more times
[13:23] <Panarchy> greetings
[13:23] <elky> Panarchy, how many times have you been asked to stop the "/me says hi" thing?
[13:23] <Panarchy> Did I do anything wrong on the #ubuntu channel?  Going right for me from the get-go?
[13:27] <elky> Panarchy, dont even try.
[13:27] <ikonia> I'm not going to cut you any slack - you know the rules
[13:28] <ikonia> I'm %100 open about that
 Panarchy: you can't write in c++ as you've told us many times
 Panarchy: please stop with these lies
[13:28] <ikonia> Panarchy: yes,
[13:29] <ikonia> ?
 ikonia: http://pastebin.com/m72f62add
[13:29] <ikonia> so ?
[13:29] <Panarchy> so, you were wrong
[13:29] <ikonia> panarchy what does STARTUPINFO si = {0}; ?
[13:29] <Panarchy> I'm no professional, but I did get create that
[13:30] <ikonia> anyway - if you can / cannot - doesn't matter,
[13:30] <Panarchy> In fact, I'm no where near professional standard, however by reading various tutorials and getting information from various professionals I was able to create that program
[13:30] <ikonia> Panarchy: I don't care if you're the best coder in the world
[13:30] <Panarchy> ikonia: In that case, unban me
[13:30] <Panarchy> !hello-world
[13:30] <ikonia> Panarchy: your ban has nothing to do with being a good coder
[13:31] <Panarchy> ikonia: Unban me
[13:31] <ikonia> no, I'm sorry, you are too much effort
[13:32] <Panarchy> ikonia: Unban me, please. Thank you
[13:32] <elky> Panarchy, no.
[13:32] <elky> Panarchy, i gave you a chance last night, and you blew it. twice.
[13:32] <ikonia> Panarchy: repeating the same thing over and over - is one of your problems
[13:33] <Panarchy> elky: How about the ppl I helped out last-night?
[13:33] <ikonia> so ???
[13:33] <elky> Panarchy, telling #ubuntu to type /clear is not helping
[13:33] <Panarchy> elky: And the people I was about to help, until I checked my tabs and saw that I was no longer connected to the #ubuntu channel.
[13:33] <ikonia> Panarchy: I helped them
[13:33] <Panarchy> elky: I explain that.
[13:33] <ikonia> Panarchy: don't worry - I fixed the issues
[13:33] <Panarchy> ikonia: good to hear
[13:34] <Panarchy> ikonia: You live in a different time-zone to me, right?
[13:34] <ikonia> that's not your concern
[13:34] <elky> Panarchy, i know. then you repeatedly ignored ikonia asking you to stop "/me says hi" today, despite being well aware you had been asked to stop it previously.
[13:34] <Panarchy> I didn't see ikonia saying that to me
[13:35] <Panarchy> I had quite a few tabs open at the time, and was working out other things
[13:35] <Panarchy> But now that I know, it won't happen again
[13:35] <ikonia> Panarchy: it was on screen with the people you where helping
[13:35] <ikonia> Panarchy: so if you saw that the people you where helping needed help - you saw one of the 3 messages
[13:35] <Panarchy> Am I allowed to send non "/me" greetings to the #ubuntu channel?
[13:35] <elky> you already knew it was not welcome. today is not the first day you've been asked to cease it.
[13:35] <Panarchy> ikonia elky no I dind't.
[13:36] <Panarchy> *didn;t
[13:36] <ikonia> yes you did
[13:36] <ikonia> its been said MANY times to you
[13:36] <Panarchy> Nope
[13:36] <Panarchy> Missed it
[13:36] <Panarchy> As I told you, I'm just getting used to the tabs
[13:36] <elky> Panarchy, no. 1000 people saying 'hi' is not something we want in #ubuntu
[13:36] <ikonia> ok - well this dissucssion is over for me then if you don't know that - or your pretending you don't know
[13:36] <Panarchy> and using Windows 7, so still a little confused
[13:36] <ikonia> windows 7 has NOTHING to do with it
[13:36] <Panarchy> yes
[13:36] <Panarchy> Windowing system
[13:36] <Panarchy> switching back and forth
[13:36] <ikonia> the rules don't change due to the OS you're on
[13:36] <elky> Panarchy, you have outstayed your welcome.
[13:37] <Panarchy> elky, ikonia: I didn't know that ikonia was telling me not to post with /me. ikonia & elky, please allow me one last entry to the #ubuntu channel in order to redeem myself
[13:38] <elky> Panarchy, that 'one last entry' was the ban lifting i did last night. you already used that chance up.
[13:38] <Panarchy> elky: The reason I'm banned from #ubuntu now is for the /me stuff.
[13:39] <elky> it's for the action of insolence that the /me stuff constituted.
[13:39] <Panarchy> I didn't know/had forgotten that I wasn't meant to do that. Ikonia (apparently) was telling me so, however because I was a little confused with the multitude of tabs, the different windowing system and the multiple servers I was connected to (also constantly typing in /clear) I was unable to cede from /me. Now that I know, it won't happen again
[13:40] <ikonia> always an excuse
[13:40] <elky> you cannot claim innocence. you have been warned dozens of times to stop.
[13:40] <Panarchy> I missed it
[13:40] <elky> you ruined the chance i gave you.
[13:40] <Panarchy> no, please give me another
[13:40] <elky> no.
[13:40] <Panarchy> What'll it take?
[13:40] <elky> i dont accept bribes.
[13:41] <Panarchy> I wasn't speaking money terms
[13:41] <Panarchy> What'll it take?
[13:41] <elky> bribes are rarely financial.
[13:41] <Panarchy> In order to be unbanned from #ubuntu, what would you like me to do?
[13:41] <ikonia> Panarchy: nothing - you can't be trusted
[13:41] <ikonia> Panarchy: you are too much of a constant disruption to every channel you are in
[13:42] <elky> Panarchy, you have to change your behaviour *everywhere* before i'll even try to put a criteria on it.
[13:42] <Panarchy> starting today, 26/4/2009 at 10:42PM I will no longer be a disruption on any channel within the FreeNode network.
[13:42] <ikonia> Panarchy: you've said that many times before
[13:42] <ikonia> Panarchy: it carrys no weight with me at all
[13:42] <Panarchy> starting today, 26/4/2009 at 10:42PM I will no longer knowingly be a disruption on any channel within the FreeNode network.
[13:42] <ikonia> Panarchy: you've just said that same thing again - which is one of the things you where told to stop
[13:42] <Panarchy> I can type this on a channel with a log if you liek
[13:42] <Panarchy> *like
[13:42] <ikonia> you can't even stop that
[13:43] <ikonia> Panarchy: you really don't get it, it is pointless discussing it
[13:43] <ikonia> Panarchy: do you really think every channel wants to see that ?
[13:43] <Panarchy> no, it's not
[13:43] <Panarchy> ikonia: No, I don't think so
[13:43] <ikonia> Panarchy: do you not think that saying that in every channel is a disuption ?
[13:43] <Panarchy> lol
[13:43] <Panarchy> touche
[13:43] <Panarchy> Is this channel logged?
[13:43] <ikonia> yes
[13:43] <Panarchy> (officially)
[13:43] <ikonia> yes
[13:43] <Panarchy> problem solved then
[13:43] <ikonia> ?
[13:43] <elky> Panarchy, then please leave.
[13:43] <Panarchy> Thanks to the aforementioned post, you have written proof
[13:44] <Panarchy> that I will no longer knowlingly be a disruption within any channel on the FreeNode network
[13:44] <elky> Panarchy, no, the proof we need comes from you actually doing it.
[13:44] <Panarchy> Which will come if you let me
[13:44] <elky> see you in a month then,
[13:44] <ikonia> is there really a point to persist with this dance
[13:45] <Panarchy> elky: Can we make it a week?
[13:45] <elky> i dont want to see you, or discuss this, any time within the next MONTH.
[13:45] <elky> Panarchy, no.
[13:45] <ikonia> elky: how can we make this a perm ban
[13:45] <ikonia> I see no point to waste time with this on a regular basis
[13:45] <elky> ikonia, he wont keep it up for a whole month.
[13:45] <Panarchy> Well in that case, my previous contract is void until such a time as this meeting reconvenes.
[13:46] <popey> "contract" :)
[13:46] <elky> that's a threat if ever i've seen one.
[13:46] <ikonia> can we please just make this a perm ban
[13:46] <ikonia> it's a joke to let it continue
[13:46] <elky> ikonia, he just did.
[13:46] <ikonia> ahhh
[13:46] <elky> ikonia, note, *he* just did.
[13:47]  * elky cuts the piece of rope and waits for the next one.
[13:48] <ikonia> time for a work out
[13:48] <ikonia> laters all,
[14:30] <Seeker`> gah, LjL just beat me
[14:31] <LjL> by so little that i'm pretty sure some servers would show the opposite sequences...
[14:31] <Seeker`> LjL: mine did
[14:32] <LjL> Seeker`: that was probably just your client, not the server, though
[14:32] <Seeker`> does the RFC say that the message you send to a channel is sent back toyou?
[14:35] <Pricey> i believe no response = success
[14:36] <elky><EMAIL_ADDRESS><-- does that ident look familiar to anyone?
[14:39] <LjL> Seeker`: yes, that's true, but the client (at least, all clients i've ever dealt with) ignore that, and instead just print your message as soon as you hit Enter
[14:39] <LjL> Seeker`: wait, no it's not even true, it's not sent back
[14:41] <Seeker`> fair enough
[14:43] <LjL> elky: my logs confirm he's trolled several times using "pieman" as either nick or ident.
[14:44] <elky> thought so.  :P
[14:49] <elky> consider it punishment for seeker's comment. express any discontent in his direction.
[14:49] <elky> Seeker`, oh really now?
[14:49] <LjL> Seeker`: that's clearly impossible.
[14:49] <elky> Seeker`, mneptok is an op.
[14:49]  * LjL hopes nobody gets that
[14:50] <elky> some things should remain un-wired. mneptok's brain is one of them.
[14:50] <Seeker`> haha
[14:51] <Gary> he has a brain?
[14:53] <elky> yes, it's... ok, wiring is ok, just not the data-passing type.
[15:08] <Gary> the restraint type ?
[15:13] <elky> the behavioural adjustment type.
[15:19] <LjL> look at kronix in #ubuntu please thanks
[15:29] <elky> i need to go sleep.
[15:36] <Mez> Fujisan is the known troll, right, not fujitsu (that still confuses me)
[15:37] <Mez> @btlogin
[15:37] <LjL> popey: now how come fujisan knows about kronix?
[15:37] <LjL> Mez: fujitsu is a bit of a fool too
[15:37] <LjL> at least imo
[15:45] <Fujisan> popey i am sorry ok
[15:45] <Fujisan> can we talk about it please
[15:45] <popey> you come in the channel and take the piss out of us as a group then me individually
[15:45] <popey> what on earth makes you think I want you in that channel
[15:46] <Fujisan> it wasnt something i said about the breakfast
[15:46] <Fujisan> someone else did
[15:46] <popey> but you brought it to the channel
[15:46] <Fujisan> it wasnt meant for trolling though
[15:47] <Fujisan> i am not a bad person
[15:47] <popey> I don't actually think -ops is the right channel for this discussion, sorry other ops
[15:48] <Fujisan> yes it is
[15:48] <LjL> -irc would be better
[15:48] <popey> indeed
[15:48] <LjL> Fujisan: you decide that?
[15:48] <Fujisan> it happend in a ubuntu channel and your conduct wasnt good either popey
[15:48] <Fujisan> you said to me you didnt ban me in PM
[15:48] <LjL> Fujisan: have you checked the /topic for this channel?
[15:48] <Fujisan> and then banned me the minute after i apologized to you already in PM
[15:48] <Fujisan> very mean
[15:48] <Fujisan> :(
[15:48] <Fujisan> LjL?
[15:49] <LjL> Fujisan: this channel is not the right place to discuss something that happened in #ubuntu-uk, contrary to what you claim. and it's pretty arrogant of you to think you know better than this channel's actual users. check the /topic, it will explain things for you.
[15:50] <Fujisan> English isnt my first language sorry
[15:50] <Fujisan> what is this channel for then?
[15:50] <LjL> what its topic says.
[15:51] <LjL> like, read it.
[15:51] <Fujisan> i think popey abused his ops by misleading me
[15:51] <Fujisan> i saved the logs
[15:51] <bazhang> Fujisan, /join #ubuntu-irc
[15:51] <Fujisan> so i want it reported at least
[15:51] <bazhang> Fujisan, please part this channel.
[15:52] <bazhang> Piero_Scaruffi, hi how may we help you
[15:53] <LjL> popey: mind, for all i was concerned the discussion could have taken place here... just his way of saying "yes this is the right channel" got me off
[15:53] <Piero_Scaruffi> brb bazhang need to go to the toilet
[15:53] <Piero_Scaruffi> sorry
[15:53] <LjL> how come i know that nickname
[15:54] <LjL> oh, that's why.
[16:00] <popey> piero_scaruffi == fujisan
[16:07] <ikonia> I thought Fujisan was perm banned on site anyway ?
[16:07] <popey> I didt know that
[16:08] <ikonia> I "thought" - that doesn't mean I'm right
[16:08] <ikonia> hoping someone in the know will clarify
[16:08] <popey> :)
[16:09] <popey> you are however blessed with more clue in this dept than I.
[16:09] <ikonia> maybe not.....
[16:21] <popey> bah, lots of new people arriving in -uk, doubtless from #defocus or wherever the oddballs hang out
[16:22] <Mez> popey: I thought this WAS where the oddballs hung out?
[16:22] <ikonia> popey: are you getting an influx of unusual people ?
[16:23] <popey> just seeing a few new names in succession
[16:46] <Seeker`> -uk is actually getting quite big now
[16:46] <ikonia> prickey ???
[16:46] <ikonia> Seeker`: yes, I thought that just before the release
[16:46] <Seeker`> what is the biggest loco?
[16:50] <ikonia> must be a usa one
[16:53] <popey> define $biggest
[16:53]  * popey recalls Myrtti saying -fi was busiser than -uk
[16:54] <Seeker`> where biggest is largest number of people on irc
[16:54] <popey> yeah, 165 in -fi, 122 in -uk
[16:55] <Seeker`> hmm
[16:55] <ikonia> 122 quality guys though ;)
[16:56] <ikonia> well 121, I forgot popey was in there
[16:58] <Nafallo> meh. -se is 118 :-P
[16:58] <Nafallo> but considering London have more people than the whole of Sweden... ;-)
[17:05] <Seeker`> I remember when 30 people was a busy day for -uk
[17:46] <jpds> webcam?
[17:46] <ikonia> god knows
[17:55] <Nafallo><PHONE_NUMBER>55555555
[17:55] <Nafallo> oops
[19:35] <topyli> sigh, -fi-ot is pretty foulmouthed again
[19:43] <ikonia> bang some heads
[19:45] <topyli> heh, i only have whining powers there
[19:45] <ikonia> prod Myrtti
[19:51] <Nafallo> they are Finnish. what did you expect? ;-)
[20:01] <topyli> fist fights and stabbings, sure. but no swearing on  irc!
[20:09] <jpds> Fool.
[20:42] <Pici> just stopping in, I'm not really here now
[20:42] <ikonia> Pici: everything cool ?
[20:43] <Pici> ikonia: actually, its really hot, 91F/33C here
[20:44] <ikonia> lucky
[20:44] <ikonia> but thats not what I meant ;)
[20:44] <Pici> nono, I'm fine.
[20:44] <Pici> Stopped by the office to fix something they called me about, was checking on IRC while I waited for something to reboot.
[20:44] <ikonia> ahh that old trap
[20:45] <Pici> Well, I didn't remember how to fix it, so I wasn't going to randomly tell the helpdesk instructions to fix it if I didn't know if it was going to work
[20:45] <nickspoon> Oh hi Pici :)
[20:45] <Pici> I'm only 10 minutes away from the office anyway.
[20:45] <Pici> Hi mr. sppon
[20:45] <Pici> spoon rather,.
[20:46] <jdong> Pici: Scranton PA?
[20:46] <Pici> And now... I depart.  Be back in a bit probably.
[20:46] <jdong> (kidding)
[20:46] <Pici> the office, not The Office
[20:46] <jdong> that's disappointing.
[20:46] <Pici> The datacenter is nice and cool, quite relaxing on a day like this.
[20:47] <Pici> okay, bye again.
[20:49] <tritium> His ISP is doubling his packets?  I've never seen that before...
[20:54] <balzac> hello
[20:54] <ikonia> hello
[20:55] <ikonia> how can we help ?
[20:55] <balzac> yeah, my colleague
[20:55] <ikonia> ?
[20:55] <balzac> needs an ip address unblocked
[20:55] <ikonia> let him come and ask then
[20:55] <balzac> he will,
[20:55] <ikonia> ok
[20:55] <balzac> 1 sec
[20:56] <ikonia> no problem
[20:57] <ikonia> balzac: if he's going to be a while, can you part the channel and just send him in when he's free please
[20:57] <balzac> he's installing chatzilla
[20:58] <ikonia> balzac: well you can leave and we'll take it up with him when he comes in
[20:58] <balzac> alright, thanks
[20:58] <ikonia> thanks
[20:59] <eddie__> hello
[20:59] <ikonia> hi
[21:00] <ikonia> eddie__: what's up ?
[21:00] <eddie__> what's up ikonia?
[21:00] <ikonia> eddie__: nothing, how can we help you today ?
[21:01] <ikonia> I assume your balzacs friend, and you wanted help with an ip unbanning ?
[21:01] <eddie__> balzac had mentioned that i be here to requested my ip address to be unblocked for #ubuntu
[21:01] <ikonia> eddie__: there is no ban on your ip address
[21:02] <eddie__> thank you ikonia
[21:02] <ikonia> no problem
[21:03] <ikonia> eddie__: anything else you need help with ?
[21:03] <eddie__> no that's it. i appreciate your assistance.
[21:03] <ikonia> no problem,
[21:04] <ikonia> eddie__: if there is nothing else could you please leave the channel, thanks and I see you are in #ubuntu now without issue
[21:04] <ikonia> @mark #ubuntu eddie__ associated with balzac
[21:07] <Myrtti> topyli: I'll add you to the access list tomorrow
[21:07] <ikonia> she lives
[21:08] <Seeker`> hi Myrtti
[21:09] <Myrtti> ikonia: yeah, though with my n800; gonna touch my computer tomorrow
[21:09] <ikonia> nice
[21:10] <topyli> Myrtti: it does sometimes seem like there's no-one around there, might be good
[21:38] <nickspoon> Oh hey Myrtti :3
[21:41] <Myrtti> ohai
[21:58] <ikonia> christel: the answer is 43
[21:59] <christel> hehe
[21:59] <christel> thank you!
[22:01] <ikonia> event_: whats up?
[22:01] <ikonia> seele: be with you in a moment
[22:01] <seele> ikonia: ok
[22:02] <event_> ikonia, nothing : )
[22:02] <ikonia> event_: this channel is for operator/abuse issues only, if you have no business here please leave the channel
[22:02] <ikonia> seele: what's up ?
[22:03] <seele> ikonia: hi, i am organizing the OpenUsability Season of Usability. Canonical is graciously a sponsor of the project and there are two accepted Ubuntu projects
[22:03] <seele> however, i got a comment regarding Ubuntu's dedication to this project and SoC
[22:03] <ikonia> seele: sounds promising, can I pause you for a second as I know you don't have an "issue"
[22:03] <ikonia> seele: ahh, it's fine he's gone
[22:03] <seele> http://weblog.obso1337.org/2009/student-applications-open-for-2009-season-of-usability/#comment-159937
[22:03] <seele> i'm not sure how to respond to this comment
[22:04] <seele> because i'm afraid it may make students not want to apply to the GNOME and Ubuntu projects
[22:04] <ikonia> seele: I don't think that comments anything to do with your projects, and I'd ignore it
[22:05] <ikonia> seele: it's up to a company where they invest there money, so I don't see it as an issue personally
[22:05] <seele> it does because two Canonical employees are mentoring the Ubuntu projects
[22:05] <ikonia> seele: you may want to contact canonical or your contact who is sponsoring the project to discuss it offciailly though
[22:05] <ikonia> seele: if ubuntu sponsor SOC or not has nothing to do with your projects
[22:05] <seele> no, they withdrew as a mentoring organization
[22:05] <seele> and they are also a mentoring organization for the Season of Usability..
[22:06] <ikonia> seele: ok - so the mentoring is the issue, not SOC
[22:06] <seele> nevermind, i'll just talk to rick tomorrow
[22:06] <ikonia> seele: in that case contact canonical to get the official line
[22:06] <ikonia> seele: I'm sure you've got direct contact there
[22:06] <seele> yes
[22:06] <seele> thanks
[22:06] <ikonia> seele: your usability page looks very interesting though, I've book marked it
[22:39] <elky> we're so unapproachable that we are the counselling service?
[23:11] <ikonia> elky: who said we are unapproachable ?


[00:42] <eLTee> QUESTION will Ubuntu Touch have a voice search feature similar to Google Now?
[10:57] <geko> hi there


[20:23] <tjaalton> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/mesa-dev/2013-August/044021.html
[20:24] <tjaalton> finally able to get rid of the alternatives, soonish :)
[21:12] <mlankhorst> yay
[21:13] <mlankhorst> tjaalton: but realistically it will just be another libgl alternative..
[21:13]  * mlankhorst ducks


[05:46] <DanChapman> Good Morning all :-)
[17:37] <WebbyIT> Hi all :) How can I verify, with autopilot, that an object doesn't exist?


[03:16] <Lucas2b_> What time does the 13.04 comes??
[05:01] <sebsebseb>
[07:58] <SuperMatt> got my precise t-shirt on, bring it on guys!
[08:08] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:08] <MooDoo> Is it out yet?  sorry couldn't resist ;)
[08:10] <AlanBell> !isitout
[08:11] <MooDoo> I was teasing AlanBell ;)
[08:11] <SuperMatt> lollers
[08:16] <Laney> Subject: You've just been ousted as the mayor of Canonical Bluefin 5th Floor!
[08:16] <Laney> czajkowski: YOU
[08:16] <SuperMatt> hurr
[08:21] <czajkowski> I know :)
[08:22]  * Laney gets the train to london
[08:23] <popey> where sam goes to beavers there's another parent who drops his daughter off there, the mayorship basically flip-flops between me and him constantly
[08:23] <popey> he found me on twitter too ⍨
[08:30] <czajkowski> lol
[08:30] <czajkowski> it used to be Lou
[08:30] <czajkowski> but not seen her
[08:36] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Raring Ringtail Release Day! :-D
[08:40] <popey> hah
[08:45] <MooDoo> morning JamesTait
[08:46] <JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
[09:03] <popey> AlanBell: what time are we meeting for beer tomorrow?
[09:03] <popey> also TheOpenSourcerer
[09:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Good question popey
[09:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm planning to just go straight from the office
[09:04] <AlanBell> I have a childrens party to start first
[09:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> As it is close. So could meet in the Cobbett whenevr you are ready.
[09:05] <AlanBell> which consists of turning on a DVD through a projector and walking out before the food starts flying
[09:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[09:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Will you be in town this evening?
[09:12] <brobostigon> good morning eveyrone,
[09:34] <BigRedS> Goood Morning!
[09:34] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon BigRedS
[09:35] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[09:37] <BigRedS> Good MooDoo
[09:37] <BigRedS> er
[09:38] <BigRedS> "morning" apparently doesn't tab-complete
[09:38] <MooDoo> lol
[09:38] <BigRedS> I _really_ need a tab key that's wired into my brain
[09:38] <directhex> it does it someone here helpfully uses /nick morning for you
[09:39] <BigRedS> Haha, I generally try to tab-complete everything. I did that with my password first thing this morning...
[09:40] <MooDoo> thing is though every one will start referring to you as big<tab> ;) lol
[09:41] <BigRedS> Haha, but that's generally bigcalm :)
[09:47] <knightwise> ok , tried out bittorrent sync
[09:47] <knightwise> looks good so far
[09:47] <knightwise> (osx to osx) next up i'm gonna give the linux client a try
[09:47] <knightwise> the cool thing is.. you can run this on a headless server too (i think)
[09:50] <popey> indeed you can
[09:50] <popey> I ran it on my phone
[09:52] <SuperMatt> I'm gonna try setting up a network with my buddies, see if we can each set aside enough space for each other
[09:52] <SuperMatt> I'm assuming stuff can remain encrypted on the other end
[09:52] <popey> you can drop encrypted files in it
[09:52] <SuperMatt> ah right
[09:55] <SuperMatt> already had to post over on /r/ubuntu to let people know they shouldn't be posting links to ISOs yet -.-
[09:58] <SuperMatt> I think I should make a note to myself to remember to make similar posts on every release mornign
[10:03] <BigRedS> Personally,  were I canonical I'd just redirect all requests for *.iso to something that never resolves
[10:04] <knightwise> popey: there is a mobile client too ? (or are you just running ubuntu touch on your phone)
[10:07] <Myrtti> http://beeroclock.in/
[10:07] <MooDoo> Myrtti: yay
[10:09] <popey> knightwise: yes, i ran it on ubuntu touch
[10:12] <knightwise> cool :)
[10:18] <knightwise> if its reliable enough I think i'll be ditching Dropbox pretty soon.
[10:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sparkleshare is rather cool - just git and clients.
[10:19] <BigRedS> sparkleshare's brilliant
[10:19] <BigRedS> Actually, that's probably the other piece of software that's yet to annoy me
[10:34]  * AlanBell likes sparkleshare
[10:35] <AlanBell> bittorrent sync will probably be quite cool, there was a somewhat clue-lacking bbc article about it yesterday
[10:35] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22281941
[10:38] <knightwise> I played around with owncloud but it took me forever to get it working over https
[10:39] <BigRedS> A clue-lacking article from the BBC? Never!
[10:42] <SuperMatt> knightwise: didn't take me long at all :/
[10:42] <SuperMatt> I'm running it now without issue
[10:43] <celesteh> Hi, I'm wondering what files are automatically invoked in gnome login?  I want to start a process automatically every time I login to the desktop.
[10:43] <SuperMatt> find the application called "startup applications"
[10:43] <SuperMatt> there you can set what starts up
[10:46] <celesteh> Thanks SuperMatt!
[10:46] <AlanBell> to be completely fair to the BBC they appear to have cornered a clueless analyst and got lots of quotes
[11:06] <redtape> afternoon peeps.
[11:06] <knightwise> SuperMatt: you did a standard 5 install ?
[11:06] <SuperMatt> not quite, actually
[11:07] <SuperMatt> I have nginx installed
[11:07] <knightwise> SuperMatt: do you have a good tutorial on how to get it from http to https  ?
[11:07] <knightwise> nginx ?
[11:07] <SuperMatt> yeah, it's just a faster webserver than apache
[11:07] <knightwise> aha
[11:07] <SuperMatt> so I'm not really much help to you here
[11:10] <BigRedS> surely there's a billion https-in-nginx tutorials?
[11:11] <SuperMatt> sure, but I can't help with apache ;)
[11:12] <SuperMatt> and tbh, I'm weary of suggesting to anyone how to configure apache for https because I just don't know how their server is configured and I could messs stuff up if I'm not careful
[11:13] <BigRedS> It's pretty simple to configure Apache for SSL, assuming the've already got the cleartext vhost working
[11:14] <BigRedS> just copy the vhost, make it :443 and add the SSL* lines
[11:14] <SuperMatt> yup yup, I know
[11:14] <SuperMatt> and in fact, on ubuntu you can just do a2ensite default-ssl
[11:14] <BigRedS> assuming you're serving out of /var/www
[11:14] <SuperMatt> very true
[11:14] <BigRedS> and want snakeoil certs
[11:15] <SuperMatt> but these are the things that I don't know about *other peoples* hosting, so I don't ever want to guess
[11:15] <BigRedS> yeah, but if they know which vhost they want to sslify, you can just have them copy that.It's very hard to break anything that way
[11:15] <BigRedS> possible, sure
[11:16] <SuperMatt> I'm just quite weary about making suggestions unless I have a definitive answer
[11:28] <shrik> hello all, is anybody able to upgrade to raring via do-release-upgrade?
[11:28] <popey> yes if you use -d, but after release you wont need that
[11:29] <popey> i.e. it's not been released yet
[11:29] <shrik> ah okay, thanks
[11:29] <brobostigon> anyone know of an android git client, that can push to a repo, aswell as pull. ?
[11:33]  * czajkowski stabs Laney
[11:33] <Laney> omg
[11:33] <Laney> office busy?
[11:33] <shrik> brobostigon: have you looked at Terminal IDE? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spartacusrex.spartacuside
[11:34] <czajkowski> Laney: aye
[11:34] <brobostigon> shrik: tried it, doesnt work, get https errors when i try and pull/clone, and also the fixes in their bug tracker dont help.
[11:34] <BigRedS_> shrik: I did it on friday
[11:35] <shrik> sorry about that, it works alright for me, but I only played around with it for a bit, and didn't try the git part!
[11:36] <brobostigon> shrik: everything else works fine, except for that bit, which is unfortunate, because it worked well.
[11:39] <shrik> that's unfortunate :( it wasn't an issue for me because I ssh into a vps for any dev stuff..
[11:40] <shrik> I'm curious though, what's your use-case? Just trying out stuff?
[11:41] <brobostigon> shrik: my use case, is being able to do basic edits on my nexus7, which i have connected to and arduino, which outputs to that nexus7, so i can make direct code adjustments and push to the arduino.
[11:46] <JamesTait> !isitout
[11:46] <JamesTait> Time for lunch then.
[11:49] <shrik> even busybox doesn't support it, I'm lost then..
[11:50]  * czajkowski slaps JamesTait you should know better
[11:50] <JamesTait> trollolololol
[11:51] <Nafallo> JamesTait: I wouldn't leave... almost there :-)
[11:51] <JamesTait> Nafallo, but I'm getting hungry, and I have a minetest issue to work out before my boys find out that I broke it and disown me.
[11:52] <brobostigon> minetest :)
[11:53] <JamesTait> And workrave is telling me I need a rest break.
[11:53] <JamesTait> It's probably right.
[11:53] <Nafallo> JamesTait: fine fine... but you might miss it :-)
[11:53] <JamesTait> I might... but I've already been spreading the good word, so it's not the end of the world.
[11:57] <ali1234> PHP Parse error:  syntax error, unexpected ',', expecting T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM
[11:57] <ali1234> wat
[12:00] <shauno> yummy, hebrew error messages.  that'll make your day interesting
[12:01] <shauno> http://php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.paamayim-nekudotayim.php
[12:03] <BigRedS_> that's one of the common complaints about php that I don't think is such a big problem
[12:04] <SuperMatt> !isitoutyet
[12:04] <SuperMatt> c'mon guys, it's 13.04
[12:04] <BigRedS_> Oh, I've still got that twitter thingy
[12:05] <MooDoo> we're not moaning as it's not released yet are we?
[12:06] <SuperMatt> weeeell, the twitter feed said it might be out at 13:04 :P
[12:06] <SuperMatt> I don't normally moan
[12:06] <MooDoo> sheesh ;)
[12:06] <MooDoo> as per the wonder id software, it's done when it's done ;)
[12:07] <BigRedS_> nah, there is an actual release date here, it's not like Debian
[12:09] <SuperMatt> there it is!
[12:09] <popey> it is now ☻
[12:10] <SuperMatt> thanks!
[12:10] <BigRedS_> hm? It just released?
[12:11] <Nafallo> possibly :-)
[12:11] <SuperMatt> now we have to wait for marky-boy's S announcement
[12:11] <popey> "marky-boy"?
[12:11] <popey> blimey
[12:11] <BigRedS_> you *are* familiar
[12:11] <MooDoo> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2013-April/thread.html
[12:11] <MooDoo> there you go
[12:11] <SuperMatt> never met the chap
[12:13] <SuperMatt> MooDoo: nothing about S in there
[12:13] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: sorry missed the S in your statement thought it was just a typo....i'll shut up now
[12:14] <BigRedS_> so does this mean Canonical are all getting to the pub in about 30 min?
[12:14] <SuperMatt> doubt it
[12:15] <SuperMatt> there's still a chance of critical bugs
[12:15] <BigRedS_> there's *always* a chance of critical bugs
[12:15] <BigRedS_> but now fixes are expected to be slower, 'cause it's not an rc any more
[12:18] <SuperMatt> just slammed down $46 on the donation page
[12:19] <Nafallo> doubt it, there will be champagne in the kitchen ;-)
[12:19] <Nafallo> unless that tradition has died down... popey? :-)
[12:20] <popey> I cant be in the office today
[12:20] <popey> also am working till 10pm
[12:20] <Nafallo> bah
[12:20] <Nafallo> okay
[12:20] <SuperMatt> so you're not going to be at the release party tonight popey?
[12:20] <popey> nope
[12:21] <SuperMatt> well darn
[12:32] <knightwise>  hmm.. new functions in Raring look promising
[12:38] <shrik> it's out.
[12:40] <JamesTait> I won't be enjoying champagne in the office or beer in London today either, popey.  I won't be working until 10pm though, so I pity you there.
[12:42] <JamesTait> I'll just have a quiet shandy by myself after the kids have gone to bed.
[12:42] <bigcalm> !isitoutyet
[12:42]  * BigRedS_ ponders the possibility of a rowdy shandy
[12:42] <bigcalm> Ooh. To the laptop!
[12:43] <Laney> just heard "ICT is the new sexy" on radio 4
[12:44] <BigRedS> I've been waiting for that to be the case for _years_
[12:47] <Laney> it was in a piece about sexism unfortunately
[12:49] <JamesTait> So, Snappy Serval, anyone?
[12:50] <bigcalm> Strike another possible name from the list
[12:50] <Nafallo> JamesTait: +1
[12:51] <JamesTait> The sabdfl announcement is always such an education - I don't know where he finds out about the animals he chooses, but I've usually never heard of them.
[12:52] <Nafallo> JamesTait: warthog? :-)
[12:52] <shauno> breezy wasn't too challenging either
[12:53] <shauno> at least I can pronounce this one though
[12:53] <JamesTait> I did say usually. ;)
[12:57] <bigcalm> Startup Disk Creator is crashing while trying to write the new iso to an sd card. Not too helpful that
[12:57] <bigcalm> I have no idea if it has finished creating the disk or not
[12:58] <popey> bug  perhaps
[12:58]  * bigcalm tries for a 3rd time
[12:59] <bigcalm> This time allowing it to create 1gb of user space
[13:00] <bigcalm> This time it has closed the util but not shown a crash dialogue
[13:00] <bigcalm> Maybe it worked
[13:01] <Laney> yeah we should do some work on that tool
[13:01] <shrik> where was snappy serval announced?
[13:01] <Laney> slim shady
[13:04] <JamesTait> shrik, I'm not aware that it has been.
[13:05] <JamesTait> shrik, I just made it up.
[13:29] <shrik> haha ok
[13:29] <Myrtti> slippery snail
[13:30] <daubers> hmmm.. raring is the first ubuntu release I haven't been running a pre-release of for a good few years now
[13:57] <shrik> slumbering sloth
[13:58] <shrik> that's the polar opposite of a snappy serval, i guess
[14:38] <MooDoo> saucy salamader, they get worse lol
[14:39] <Laney> sounds nice to me at first reading
[14:39] <Laney> better than oneiric
[14:39] <Laney> better than gutsy intrepid quantal
[14:40] <MooDoo> it'll be teasing toad next or tempestuous terrapin
[14:44] <shrik> there's already a http://www.saucysalamander.com/
[14:48] <Nafallo> perfect place for a release party ;-)
[14:57] <ali1234> will it really be 13.10, or will there be another push for a rolling release?
[14:59] <Nafallo> yes
[15:01] <Myrtti> to which question ;-)
[15:02] <bashrc> I hope the graphics card support in 13.04 is better than 12.10
[15:02] <ahayzen> Quantal's startup disk creator is broken?!
[15:02]  * ahayzen tries the KDE version
[15:03] <ali1234> i take that to mean rolling release proponents will make another push which will be denied by people with sense
[15:03] <mungbean> KDE..making ugly desktops since 4.0
[15:04] <ali1234> you can make it look decent actually
[15:04] <ahayzen> mungbean, just the app not the desktop :) ... anyone else had the usb creator in Quantal crash or just me?
[15:04] <ali1234> there's a theme that apes google chrome and looks quite nice
[15:05] <bashrc> What's ugly about KDE?
[15:05] <ali1234> oxygen, the default icon set, the default fonts (especially hinting)
[15:06] <ali1234> the toolbars and panels everywhere on everything are annoying too
[15:06] <ali1234> they overuse font sizes and bold and italic text everywhere too
[15:07] <ali1234> also nothing ever lines up properly... KDE cannot vertically align things consistently
[15:07] <ahayzen> ...sounds like someone doesn't like KDE :P
[15:07] <ali1234> i do like KDE actually
[15:07] <mungbean> yeah, toolbars, widgets, menus, huge areas of white/chrome space
[15:07] <ali1234> these problems are all papercuts really
[15:08] <ali1234> they can be fixed it just takes a loooooooong time when you start from defaults
[15:08] <ali1234> and a lot of them are trivial and stupid stuff that should have been fixed
[15:08] <ali1234> like the broken clock
[15:08] <ahayzen> ali1234 wht do u use as ur default DE+shell?
[15:08] <ali1234> https://plus.google.com/u/0/117474986382867317779/posts/GaQ9QVwrJ6D
[15:08] <ali1234> ahayzen: i use gnome-panel/gtk3
[15:09] <ahayzen> nice :)
[15:10] <ali1234> oh and compiz... because it is still the only wm with working zoom
[15:10] <ali1234> the ultimately configurable KDE cannot bind shortcuts to the mouse
[15:10] <ali1234> so you can't bind any WM function to mouse buttons
[15:10]  * ahayzen wonders if MIR will have zooming abilities
[15:10] <ali1234> so you can't zoom with the mouse
[15:11] <ali1234> this is a big problem with KDEs "code reuse everywhere" thing
[15:11] <ali1234> a lot of times it's not appropriate to reuse it, but they do anyway because they can
[15:11] <ali1234> like how if you open a text file in the file browser, it loads in an embedded text editor in the file browser
[15:11] <ali1234> i have no idea if it still does that but it used to annoy the hell out of me
[15:11] <ali1234> especially since file browser == web browser
[15:11] <directhex> i have a new graphics card
[15:12] <mungbean> how do i decrypt a file encrypted with openssl enc
[15:13]  * Laney stabs twitpic
[15:13] <ali1234> mungbean: you encode it with the decryption key - there is no "decode" as such
[15:13] <ahayzen> yey the usb-creator-kde has worked :)
[15:13] <Laney> putting my picture up sideways
[15:13] <Laney> and refusing to save the manual rotation
[15:13] <ali1234> s/code/crypt/g
[15:14] <mungbean> ah, use -d command
[15:15] <mungbean> what's the gnome password editor please?
[15:15] <ali1234> seahorse
[15:15] <mungbean> chars
[15:15] <mungbean> (not running running but someone's given me their file)
[15:15] <mungbean> hmm is there another one, like revelation?
[15:17] <mungbean> FPM?
[15:25] <mungbean> ah found a tool to convert fpm to keepassx
[15:34] <neuro> saucy
[15:34] <neuro> really
[15:34] <neuro> :)
[15:35] <MooDoo> my thoughts exactly.
[15:37] <bashrc> saucy
[15:37] <mungbean> sausage
[15:37] <neuro> hehe
[15:37] <bashrc> well at least it's not Beefy Miracle
[15:38]  * neuro waits patiently for the announcement of Tantric Tiger
[15:38] <neuro> or Tremulous Toucan
[15:38] <neuro> or Turbulent Tortoise
[15:39] <mungbean> saucy saucisson
[15:39] <mungbean> or sossy sandwich
[15:40] <neuro> ohhhh
[15:40] <neuro> git :)
[15:41] <mungbean> yay
[15:42] <mungbean> my favourite t-shirt is now available to buy
[15:43] <mungbean> http://shirt.woot.com/offers/by-your-powers-combined
[15:43] <ali1234> at least i know what a salamander is
[15:43] <MooDoo> bashrc: that was a cool name ;)
[15:47] <bittintop> my wifi card works under Ubuntu on my laptop now, think i should save some files from the Windows partion and reinstall it :)
[15:50] <bittin> my wifi card on my laptop works under GNU/Linux now lets kill the Windows partition :p
[16:02] <ali1234> why is ufw blocking connections on port 80 when it is specifically allowed?
[16:03] <ali1234> [17039148.937362] [UFW BLOCK] IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=<> SRC=<> DST=<> LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=54 ID=0 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=44640 DPT=80 WINDOW=0 RES=0x00 RST URGP=0
[16:04] <ali1234> SRC = my IP
[16:12] <shauno> what do you get for iptables --list | grep dpt:www
[16:15]  * AlanBell heads in to the party
[16:17] <MooDoo> have fun :)
[16:25] <directhex> i like iptables-persistent
[16:25] <directhex> it doesn't get in the way
[16:25] <directhex> much
[16:58] <kvarley> FGLRX is driving me insane
[16:58] <kvarley> I can't get it to disable overscan at all
[16:59] <kvarley> Not via Catalyst GUI or via amdconfig or via editing the config files manually
[16:59] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: isn't it a setting on the screen you're outputting to?
[17:00] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: I mean it's a monitor that doesn't use overscan and the driver things it does because it's over HDMI
[17:00] <kvarley> I can change the overscan via the gui but it only works until I reboot
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> overscan is an old remnant of analog TV
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> why would anyone in their right minds use it on HDMI!?
[17:00] <kvarley> No idea, tell AMD
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: does it work with the free driver/
[17:00] <kvarley> They used to be good with their drivers as far as I can remember
[17:01] <kvarley> Ever since 12.10 it's been an uphill struggle
[17:01] <kvarley> MartijnVdS:  Unity is so sluggish with the open source driver
[17:01] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: So yes, but barely
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> weird!
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: doesn't aticonfig work?
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: it should be able to set over/underscan
[17:03] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: No
[17:03] <kvarley> Neither does editing the config files manually
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: I guess you found http://nixnote.blogspot.nl/2012/06/amd-catalyst-fixing-underscan.html already?
[17:05] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ah ha, that was the command I was looking for - thanks! BRB
[17:07] <kvarley> It works \0/ thanks MartijnVdS
[17:26] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[18:43] <directhex> yeah, this raring upgrade is going great
[18:43] <directhex> kernel install failure, initramfs-tools install failure, then apport failure
[18:52] <dwatkins_> hmm, I appear to have rejoined automatically.
[19:28] <shrik> did anyone else have their Ubuntu become a Kubuntu after the upgrade?
[19:32] <popey> heh
[19:40] <czajkowski> Laney: http://i.imgur.com/O5l9Kxh.jpg
[19:44] <shrik> my bootup splash screen is a Kubuntu one, and my GRUB entry says Kubuntu. But login screen and desktop are all Unity.
[19:44] <shrik> So confused right now.
[20:28] <redtape> Nice Full moon tonite ... :::: http://imgur.com/gallery/zFT4M
[20:30] <AlanBell> evening all
[20:30]  * AlanBell is in a pub
[20:32] <popey> yo
[20:32]  * popey is still working
[20:32] <mgdm> How come? Time zone fun?
[20:34] <redtape> AlanBell: Beer or Cider ?
[20:42] <mungbean> is wae
[20:42] <mungbean> watching new old morse
[20:46] <redtape> Between 2 ferns is back on .. If anyone wants a laugh ... :::   http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/40427c7af8/between-two-ferns-oscar-buzz-edition-part-1?rel=player&playlist=135161
[20:50] <AlanBell> beer
[20:51] <popey> mgdm: meetings with community developers
[20:51] <popey> people contributing who can't meet during the working day
[20:52] <mgdm> ahh
[20:59] <popey> \o/ finished
[21:00] <mgdm> \o/
[21:50] <aex> aloo
[21:50] <aex> any
[21:50] <aex> need help
[21:51] <redtape> oo net split .. over now .. whatsup ?
[22:01] <popey> aex: wassup?


[12:05] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[17:49] <Tuxist> hi i have problem there where no libqt53dextras5 dev package
[17:49] <Tuxist> i need QDiffuseSpecularMaterial header
[17:53] <mitya57> Tuxist: that is https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=909306
[17:53] <mitya57> My plan is to fix that as part of Qt 5.14 packaging
[17:54] <Tuxist> mitya57: ok i need this to build qlcplus i ported at the moment to use portaudio to use it with pipewire
[18:12] <Tuxist> mitya57: that should solve my problem https://salsa.debian.org/qt-kde-team/qt/qt3d/-/merge_requests/2/diffs
[18:14] <mitya57> Tuxist: no, these files are removed in debian/rules
[18:29] <Tuxist> mitya57: when will new packages released ?
[18:30] <mitya57> Hopefully in time for Ubuntu 20.04.
[18:42] <mitya57> Tuxist: well, lisandro prefers to wait a bit, so I can't yet promise anything about 20.04 yet.
[18:42] <mitya57> I don't want to diverge from Debian packaging.
[18:43] <lisandro> Tuxist: word of advice: do not make your app use unstable API exept you really know what you are doing
[18:44] <lisandro> I'll ask in the upstream mailing list non the less for it's status
[18:45] <Tuxist> lisandro: not my app i'am only fork at the moment
[18:45] <lisandro> Tuxist: as far as I know qlcplus does not uses qt3d ... yet
[18:46] <lisandro> and Im pretty sure because I started it's packaging ;-)
[18:46] <Tuxist> lisandro: the git version with qml ui use this
[18:47] <lisandro> file a bug against them
[18:47] <lisandro> let them now it's unstable API
[18:47] <lisandro> *know
[18:48] <lisandro> Tuxist: once you filed the bug feel free to pass me the url
[18:48] <lisandro> I'll chime in if necessary
[18:50] <Tuxist> https://github.com/mcallegari/qlcplus
[18:50] <Tuxist> my merge request https://github.com/mcallegari/qlcplus/pull/1214
[18:55] <lisandro> Tuxist: a link of the bug report you need to open, stating that Massimo is using unstable API
[18:55] <lisandro> and that presents an issue for Debian and Ubuntu