[00:25] <ali1234> this bzr bisect plugin is poop cakes
[00:25] <ali1234> it just doesn't work at all
[00:25] <ali1234> no matter which way around i specify "yes" and "no" (the docs don't specify what they mean)
[00:25] <ali1234> it always wants to compile a revision outside those ranges
[00:26] <ali1234> also because it is a plugin there is no way for bzr to understand what it is doing
[00:27] <ali1234> and as a result you can't get bzr to give you any useful information about the "current" revision that bisect is on
[06:58] <daubers> Morning
[07:14] <Gary> morning
[07:15] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:28] <daubers> o/
[07:30] <MartijnVdS> Great, I try to enable App Engine on my Google account.. and it tells me my phone number has already been used
[07:34] <daubers> heh
[07:36]  * daubers reboots his vps
[07:42] <daubers> Hmm... its not come back up....
[07:45] <daubers> How odd... looks like my dns being pants
[09:18] <ali1234> bisecting unity is haaaaaard
[09:19] <ali1234> it is basically impossible to compile any release except the current one with hacking it to bits
[09:21] <ali1234> luckily i converted the repo to git as soon as i realised bzr bisect plugin is totally useless
[09:23] <gord> ali1234, basically yeah nux went through some changes causing problems, we are abi stable now so future stuff won't be too bad, but that doesn't really help now :)
[09:23] <ali1234> yeah nux patches man
[09:24] <ali1234> i'm collecting them all up and squashing them into a single commit with git rebase
[09:24] <ali1234> and then cherry picking them each time i step back
[09:24] <ali1234> i have no idea how you would even do that with bzr
[09:24] <ali1234> you probably can't
[09:24] <ali1234> that IntrusivePtr stuff
[09:25] <ali1234> i'm nearly back to 4.8.0 and beginning to think maybe the fix i am looking for is actually in nux
[09:27] <ali1234> i'm back to the point where the unity logo was orange :)
[09:27] <ali1234> there was a whole series where there were no icons at all...
[09:28] <ali1234> still not repro'd the bug though
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> \o/ rain expected in Spa today
[10:16] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[10:17] <brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
[10:25] <ali1234> gord: "whatever i did" is not a helpful commit msg :(
[10:26] <gord> its the *most* helpful
[10:26] <gord> that kind of stuff should only be in my branch commit log ;) its generally when i'm moving from the laptop to the desktop and need to make a commit so i can move my work over
[10:27] <gord> just wish there was a way in bzr of doing that without a formal commit
[10:28] <gord> starting to formalize ideas with using my nas for hosting my code but building locally so i don't have this problem, buuut i'm not sure yet, there are issues
[10:28] <ali1234> you should switch to git. and by you, i mean all of canonical and ubuntu developers.
[10:28] <gord> i like bzr more than git :)
[10:29] <ali1234> then we are all doomed
[10:31]  * AlanBell wonders how much of Launchpad would break if git was added as a back end
[10:31] <gord> given that launchpad is in bzr? ;)
[10:32] <gord> it would certainly be nice if you could host git on launchpad though, but you would need some way of communicating between bzr and git so people can use whatever they want, which would be tricky...
[10:33] <ali1234> bzr fast-export works, mostly
[10:33] <Laney> bzr-git git-bzr
[10:34] <ali1234> (just passed 4.8.2)
[10:34] <gord> well no i'm thinking handling it all gracefully on the launchpad side
[10:35] <Laney> just let people handle it themselves
[10:35] <gord> heh no
[10:35] <gord> its painful enough maintaining a project with ONE vcs ;)
[10:41]  * gord notes the list of spies in #u-uk
[10:47] <zleap> hi
[10:47] <zleap> i have blacklisted wireless drivers for 11.o4 and am still having shutdown issues, can anyone help please
[10:52] <zleap> hi
[10:55] <zleap> hello
[10:55] <zleap> anyone got more info on how to resolve shutdown issues on 11.04 please
[10:55] <brobostigon> morning zleap
[10:55] <zleap> morning
[10:55] <brobostigon> what does syslog and dmesg say about it?
[10:55]  * zleap got a emachines er 1401 yesterday
[10:55] <zleap> erm
[10:56] <zleap> what am i looking for in dmesg what do i grep for
[10:56] <brobostigon> no idea, you havent told us what the issue is, other than a shutdown issue.
[10:57] <zleap> its a known 10.10 and 11.04 issues system hangs when i shutdown, i have tried blacklisting wireless drivers
[10:57] <zleap> as per this site http://www.harley-jones.co.uk/?p=135
[10:58] <brobostigon> what is the wireless driver name?
[10:58] <brobostigon> and are they internel or external to the kernel?
[10:58] <zleap> hang ion i will try and look
[10:58] <zleap> brobostigon, i have no idea i  am not that technical
[10:59] <brobostigon> zleap: if its internal to the kernel, why not make a kernel build, wihtout those drivers that are causing an issue?
[11:00] <zleap> wlan 802.11 b/g/n
[11:00] <brobostigon> that is a protocol definaition, not a driver name.
[11:01] <zleap> i just copied what it said on the system spec
[11:01] <brobostigon> if you run lsmod, what module name does it say it is using?
[11:02] <zleap> not sure how do i kjnow which is the wirfelss driver and which is the other wired driver
[11:03] <zleap> rt2800pci possibly
[11:03] <brobostigon> is it a pci wifi adaptor?
[11:03] <zleap> i guess
[11:03] <zleap> this is a known bug
[11:03] <brobostigon> is it listed with lspci ?
[11:04] <zleap> yes
[11:04] <zleap> oh
[11:04] <zleap> rt3090
[11:04] <zleap> so i blacklist that one i guess
[11:05] <brobostigon> you just said, your wifi adaptor is listed in lspci, therefore it is pci. therefore rt2800pci fitsthe description.
[11:06] <zleap> k
[11:06] <brobostigon> hence when you said, you didnt know if it was pci or not, and you didnt know. and i then said, if you seen in it lspci and you said yes.
[11:07] <zleap> i mis read what you typed
[11:07] <brobostigon> is that correct?
[11:07] <brobostigon> ok.
[11:07] <brobostigon> have a look again through lsmod and see if anything else fits the bill?
[11:08] <zleap> i had a look at the blacklist file adn found a spelling error so have fixed that
[11:08] <brobostigon> ok.
[11:08] <zleap> i did fijbnd a site that siad to blakclist a whole load of stuff i just can't find it again
[11:08] <zleap> i take it this hasn't been fixed yet otherwise there would be some sort of proper patch for it
[11:09] <brobostigon> you only need to blacklist the driver in practice, that is casuing the issue, hence i said, look through syslog and dmesg, where it would list such issues.
[11:09] <zleap> i don't really know how or what to look for
[11:09] <brobostigon> i dont know, i am using debian unstable, and i probebly dont have the hw causing this bug.
[11:09] <brobostigon> zleap: /var/log is where they are.
[11:09] <zleap> k
[11:09] <zleap> k
[11:14] <zleap> ok i got loads of filkes in /var/log
[11:15] <brobostigon> zleap: yes, because that folder, contains all the system logs.
[11:17] <brobostigon> zleap: but syslog and dmesg are the ones you need to look at, including the ones from previous sessions. so you can track down a pattern, at the end of those files.
[11:29] <zleap> hmm ok found 1x solution suggesting to use 10.04 as with 11,o4 the grahpiucs are not accellerated either
[11:29] <zleap> so same machine e-machines ER1401
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> F1 \o/
[11:30] <zleap> ?
[11:31] <zleap> ok thanks
[11:31] <zleap> chat later
[14:39]  * bigcalm[revo] pokes em
[15:41] <DJones> Is Cat 6 cable much better than Cat 5e over a 15M length, I'm looking to run a cable from my router to the other end of the house, attach a spare router to extend the wireless range (I've tested it with a short patch cable so I know it works), but just wondering about the type of cable.
[15:41] <Azelphur> DJones: cat6 is cheap and I have cat6 ran all over my 5 story house
[15:41] <Azelphur> it copes quite well
[15:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: I doubt there would be much difference over 15m
[15:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Are you running GigE or 100Mbps?
[15:42] <DJones> Thats what I was thinking, although for a couple of £'s difference, I may as well get the cat 6 to save changing in future
[15:42] <Azelphur> my cables are gig but my brother put a crappy router in thats not for no reason :/
[15:42] <penguin42> 5e will do GigE happily unless you've got really nasty electrical environments
[15:43] <DJones> Everything is either wireless G or 100Mb, so no immediate benefit of getting cat 6
[15:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> yeah penguin42. The CAT specs are for runs of up to 100mtrs (and it works longer than that) so 15 is well within any limits.
[15:43] <penguin42> nod
[15:44] <suprengr> uh oh! UbuntuOne's gone back to refusing to sync pgp encypted files [yawn] whilst claiming otherwise
[15:44] <Azelphur> DJones: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-Meter-CAT-6-cat6-Ethernet-Network-LAN-Cable-100M-/370357641437?pt=UK_Computing_NetworkingCables_RL&hash=item563b0920dd#ht_795wt_907
[15:44] <Azelphur> I just bought one of those did the entire house
[15:45] <Azelphur> probably get it a bit cheaper price comparison shopping, I think I got it for £15
[15:46] <DJones> Probably pick a ready made cable up from maplins tomorrow
[15:46] <DJones> Don't have the tools for making the cable up anyway
[15:47] <Azelphur> hehe
[15:49] <DJones> :)
[15:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> NO! Not Maplins! You will pay an arm and a leg
[15:56] <directhex> two arms and a foot afaik
[15:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> 20m Cat6 patch lead £9.27 from Fruity Cables. http://www.fruitycables.co.uk/networking-cat6-patch-leads-c-140_21.html
[15:56] <directhex> reimaged my touchpad with a 2G ext3 partition for debian chroot
[15:57] <penguin42> directhex: Oh, you're *the* guy who got the cheap one?
[15:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Maplins have a 0.5m Cat5e patch lead for £5.49. Fruity have the same for... £0.36
[15:58] <directhex> penguin42, of course! the universe *owed* me one
[16:00]  * StevenR wanted a cheap one :(
[16:00] <penguin42> ditto
[16:00]  * TheOpenSourcerer did too.
[16:01] <penguin42> I suggest we all just sit back and feel pissed at directhex
[16:01]  * StevenR glares at directhex
[16:01]  * TheOpenSourcerer will be feeling pissed later ;-)
[16:01] <matti> ;/
[16:01] <directhex> penguin42, how else would i test touch-to-share with my pre3?
[16:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bat & Ball evening - Music and socialising with humans.
[16:04] <suprengr> TheOpenSourcerer, Bat & Ball in which county?
[16:07] <directhex> /dev/mapper/store-ext3fs
[16:07] <directhex>                           2.0G     67.1M      1.9G   3% /media/ext3fs
[16:07] <directhex> :)
[16:07] <MartijnVdS> \o/?
[16:08] <directhex> MartijnVdS, new partition for chrooting
[16:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> suprengr: Surrey: http://www.thebatandball.co.uk/main/
[16:09] <suprengr> TheOpenSourcerer, doh! ... that's not where they keep the humans!
[16:11]  * suprengr apologises to anyone in Farnham of course :)
[16:16] <directhex> installing debian...
[16:19] <DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: cheaper would be good, but I suspect fruitycables don't have a local shop I can collect from tomorrow so I can do the work tomorrow while I'm off work
[16:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: Not sure where they are but they post pretty quick. Order now you'd get it on Wed...
[16:42] <kaushal> Hi
[16:42] <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/676648/ is on 10.04.1 Can someone please help me understand the figure 71.4g Any clue please ?
[16:42]  * zleap is just backing up PC
[16:43] <zleap> kaushal, disk size maybe
[16:43] <zleap> 71.4 giga bytes
[16:43] <kaushal> ok
[16:43] <zleap> at a guess how / where is that figure displayed
[16:44] <kaushal> zleap: not sure i understand your question ?
[16:44] <kaushal> i see it on top
[16:45] <zleap> on top of what,  i was asking where that figure is displayed
[16:45] <kaushal> mysql
[16:46] <zleap> ok
[16:46] <kaushal> 4401 mysql     20   0 71.4g  14g 3896 S  117 29.7   2379:51 mysqld
[16:47] <zleap> ok that could suggest you have 14g (diskspace left) and are using 71.4 gb i really don't know
[16:47] <kaushal> zleap: its about memory
[16:47] <kaushal> not disk space
[16:47] <zleap> ok
[16:47] <zleap> sorry just realised what you meant by top
[16:47] <kaushal> Any clue please ?
[16:48] <zleap> you should have a bar telling you what each column is
[16:49] <zleap> look at the top of all the colums,
[16:51] <zleap> PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
[16:52] <zleap> kaushal,
[17:30] <directhex> http://twitpic.com/6cp9uj/full :p
[17:30] <zleap> hi directhex
[17:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: That is just rubbing salt into the wounds of those who failed to grab a cheap Touchpad. Hope you brick it ;-p
[17:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> :Peven
[17:34] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer: i'm gonna try & get banshee running now ;p
[17:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[17:34] <zleap> i just got a emachines 1401 runs 11.04 nicely now i have disabled the wireless driver
[17:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm going to the pub.
[17:34] <zleap> k
[17:35] <zleap> i am just backing up my old PC so i can re-install that with 11.04 (classic)
[17:45] <dwatkins> kaushal: it's the amount of memory used by the process in total, including files mapped and libraries shared by other processes
[18:01] <daubers> lo
[18:04] <mgdm> evening
[18:08] <suprengr> if anyone is bored... I 'd be grateful for a quick proof read of a quick 'n' small text only wiki page [ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/suprengr ] pretty please
[18:09] <suprengr> daubers,  lo 2 u 2
[18:16] <AlanBell> suprengr: add a testimonials section
[18:20] <suprengr> AlanBell, I thought you were swearing till I read that again ;)  ...thanks
[18:49] <log69> hi all! anybody interested in testing my security related software? this is a 1-click auto MAC configuration solution. every suggestion or opinion is welcome! my site: http://log69.com/tomld_en.html
[18:50] <HazRPG> ali1234: any joy with the bisect?
[18:51] <HazRPG> ali1234: (just been reading the bug feed)
[19:00]  * daubers plays silly games for half an hour and will then try and get mosquitto to replicate
[19:03] <directhex> http://twitpic.com/6cqm9n/full
[19:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu One Developer Evening In Manchester On Thursday - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/08/28/ubuntu-one-developer-evening-in-manchester-on-thursday/
[19:12] <daubers> kazade: Confused by your gnome3/unity tweet?
[19:12] <Earthling> I love uk. Good job I live here
[19:12] <ball> I love the UK too, but I have to live elsewhere.
[19:13] <Earthling> Unity is lame
[19:13] <Earthling> Unity is a shame!
[19:15] <ball> I think I read somewhere that "Unity is a work in progress"
[19:17] <daubers> I tend to prefer Unity over standard gnome these days (2 or 3). Still need to retry working with KDE again at some point
[19:18] <ball> I prefer Xfce to Unity.
[19:18] <ball> I think my users will find it less confusing
[19:19] <daubers> Been a while since I used xfce, does it cope well with small screens?
[19:20] <ball> daubers: I don't think I've tried it on a netbook.
[19:21] <daubers> Hmmm... I've got unity 2d on a little eee 701 but wondered if xfce would be happier
[19:21] <hamitron> stop caring about the feelings of xfce, and think about the user
[19:21] <Earthling> Ball :-) hello again
[19:21] <hamitron> ;)
[19:22] <Earthling> Hamitron
[19:22] <hamitron> Earthling :)
[19:22] <gord> daubers, single panel, but non of the nice additions ubuntu has worked on over the years for small screens, like the maximised mode and stuff
[19:22] <Earthling> Troll lol
[19:22] <hamitron> Earthling: meh, was joking :/
[19:22] <Earthling> Its
[19:23] <ball> hamitron: ?
[19:23] <Earthling> Ham im with you dont worry
[19:23] <Earthling> Everything else smells funny
[19:24] <hamitron> can the xfce panel be made to appear at the side?
[19:24] <daubers> gord: I was surprised unity actually ran on the 701 (i.e. non-2d) didn't think it had a good enough gfx chip in it
[19:24] <Earthling> Probably with a little tweak
[19:25] <gord> daubers, heh neat :)
[19:25] <daubers> gord: It was a touch.... jittery and slow, but given patience it was ok. 2D seems much happier on it
[19:25] <Earthling> Hamitron I like meat
[19:26] <daubers> gord: Am having some weird issues in Oneiric (well one...). Sometimes chrome will not become the active window. So it has focus but won't come to the foreground, so no menu in the global menu and the window on top is in the way
[19:27] <daubers> but it happens irregularly and I can't reproduce it every time
[19:29] <gord> daubers, thats weird, i thought i noticed something like that once a few weeks ago with another app, will have to keep an eye out
[19:29] <daubers> gord: if it happens again I'll try and yell
[19:29] <daubers> (with it playing up)
[19:45] <czajkowski> aloha
[19:46] <diplo> evening all
[19:47] <daubers> czajkowski: o/
[19:47] <daubers> czajkowski: How is ireland?
[19:48] <czajkowski> nice
[19:48] <czajkowski> very wet n windy
[19:49] <czajkowski> daubers: hows you?
[19:50] <daubers> czajkowski: I'm good \o/ Having a baking/preserving spree tomorrow
[19:50] <czajkowski> yay
[19:50] <czajkowski> daubers: are the videos all done ?
[19:50]  * mgdm tinkers with Fedora and GNOME3
[19:50] <daubers> czajkowski: Got about 3 to upload, then the live show
[19:50] <mgdm> this might not end well :P
[19:50] <czajkowski> daubers: sweet
[19:50] <AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/OggCampVideos loadsa videos
[19:50] <czajkowski> daubers: that's very fast
[19:51] <czajkowski> AlanBell: ello
[19:51] <AlanBell> http://blip.tv/show/772977 <- the blip channel
[19:51] <AlanBell> ello czajkowski
[19:51] <daubers> czajkowski: It's..... ok. I think I've got a process for next year, but need to play with gstreamer to see if I can do something with it
[19:51] <AlanBell> missing the UK yet?
[19:52] <czajkowski> AlanBell: some things :)
[19:57] <daubers> Ahh... mosquitto python bindinds don't yet support user/password auth
[19:59] <czajkowski> daubers: hopefully by next year I'll speak slower...
[19:59] <czajkowski> though a week back home I'm back to normal speeds :D
[19:59] <daubers> czajkowski: We'll have to try and make sure there's plenty of opportunity for you to practice
[20:01] <czajkowski> :/
[20:01] <czajkowski> indeed
[20:07]  * daubers orders a new soldering iron tip
[20:12]  * suprengr passes Darael
[20:13]  * suprengr passes daubers a virtual [but veryt used] soldering iron tip
[20:15] <daubers> suprengr: Mine been over used :) Much too oxidised to be safeuly used now :( Need to get a new one and some tinning stuff
[20:16]  * suprengr smells virtual flux wafting through IRC
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> so THAT's what flux capacitors are for!
[20:37] <daubers> MartijnVdS: No silly, flux capacitors are for sending you to the land of the dinosaurs
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> daubers: ok, but that's how they work then.
[20:38] <daubers> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2FLdPqlnsQ
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sean_reiser/2332137040/
[20:42] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Oh dear
[20:43] <suprengr> so... the LHC has disproved the SuperSymmetry theory.  thank all the gods for that... my mirror could have told them that yonks ago [every time that ugly so'n'so stares back at me in the morning]!
[20:48] <daubers> suprengr: It's not completley disproved it, it's just more unlikely than it was before
[20:48] <daubers> suprengr: It's really quite an interesting result, as it asks an awful lot more questions
[20:48]  * daubers loves things that result in the need for new physics
[20:49] <suprengr> daubers, "not completely"? not if you'd seen *my* mirror in the morning!
[20:49] <daubers> suprengr: That's not supersymmetry, that's just plain old fashioned reflection
[20:50] <hamitron> hehe suprengr
[20:50] <suprengr> daubers, nope! thats just plain old fashoioned ugly so'n'so looking in the mirror
[20:51] <hamitron> that or maybe we got a faulty batch? where you buy yours from?
[20:51] <hamitron> ;)
[20:51] <daubers> suprengr: tbh I'm more interested in QFT as _that_ is an amazingly beautiful piece of physics
[20:51] <suprengr> QFT/ as in "Quich Fix Thickies"?
[20:52] <daubers> Quantum Field Theory, supersymmetry was postulated as a metho of solving some of the problems in QFT
[20:52] <daubers> s/metho/method
[20:53] <hamitron> so it wasn't "quick f*ing theory" made on a Friday afternoon? :-o
[20:53] <suprengr> oh - that other QFT... now you're talking proper science
[20:54] <suprengr> *that* QFT exists [&
[20:54] <suprengr> [&don't forget - I come from another planet - and can prove it]
[20:55] <ali1234> supersymmetry was never "real physics" anyway
[20:55] <daubers> suprengr: Supersymmetry was an interesting postulate. Mathematically very nice. Nature's generally not so nice
[20:55]  * suprengr agrees
[20:55] <hamitron> well, all above my head tbh :/
[20:55] <hamitron> so
[20:56]  * hamitron agrees
[20:56] <ali1234> well you don't need to worry about that now, because it was wrong anyway
[20:56] <ali1234> so one thing less to worry about
[20:57] <suprengr> hamitron, above your head is a) the heat from your brain ...& [light years beyond that] my planet ;)
[20:57]  * daubers heads to bed
[20:57] <suprengr> nitie nite daubers
[20:58] <hamitron> you tired him out
[20:58] <hamitron> :/
[20:58] <suprengr> ;)
[21:06] <suprengr> to those who work at LHC, a quick word in your ear... *look to your left now*
[21:07] <suprengr> ...too late - missed it
[21:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] The Box - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/08/28/the-box/
[21:12] <freakyclown> i should check my Cern account still works
[21:13] <andres-kain> hello all, thanks for the help yesterday.(changing login splash screen) I ended up simply doing sudo gimp and saving the image I wanted with the same name.
[21:13] <andres-kain> did the same for the plymouth image.
[21:14] <andres-kain> Seems to work ok.
[21:14] <andres-kain> but now I have a new question: I need to compile windows dll in linux.
[21:15] <andres-kain> i am told i need a cross compiler.
[21:15] <andres-kain> any recomendations?
[21:17] <hamitron> I've never done it, but think you need to look at mingw32
[21:18] <hamitron> hopefully someone else will know more
[21:18] <hamitron> :)
[21:22] <andres-kain> yep heard ming mentioned in http://wiki.jswindle.com/index.php/Compiling_Wine_dlls_for_Windows#Linux:_Cross_compiling_using_MinGW
[21:22] <andres-kain> Thanks hamitron !
[21:22] <andres-kain> I´ll wait a bit see if someone else has any suggestions.
[21:22] <hamitron> np, not really much help ;)
[21:25] <czajkowski> bug 806611
[21:29] <andres-kain> installing gcc-ming32 this compiler buisness is so new to me.
[21:36] <suprengr> 	:-R
[21:44] <suprengr> ... & then goes for much needed zzzz's nitie nite all o/
[23:12] <penguin42> anyone happen to know how much space is needed for a KDE build?
[23:27] <Azelphur> anyone know what i can do to diagnose an X freeze?
[23:27] <Azelphur> the display isnt updating, but i can move my mouse around
[23:27] <Azelphur> X is using 100% cpu
[23:28] <Azelphur> i also cant switch to a tty but ssh works
[23:31] <Azelphur> read the x freeze documentation and it says if x is 100% cpuing or the freeze ends at some point its probably not an x freeze
[23:32] <Azelphur> my freezes usually end after a while and x is 100%ing right now
[23:32] <Azelphur> says it would be a client application but doesnt mention anything further :(
[23:34] <penguin42> Azelphur: anything in dmesg?
[23:34] <Azelphur> nope
[23:34] <penguin42> Azelphur: also any errors at the bottom of /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
[23:35] <Azelphur> oooo, yes there is
[23:35] <Azelphur> relevant stuff too :D
[23:36] <Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/676882/
[23:36] <penguin42> what?
[23:38] <Azelphur> thats mentioned on the wiki about freezes too
[23:38] <Azelphur> although it doesnt say much for me, just that its common on nouveau (im on proprietary)
[23:40] <penguin42> huh motion event stuff - there was a problem on the Intel drivers somewhere in that which got fixed post natty release
[23:40] <Azelphur> yea im on nvidia
[23:41] <penguin42> natty?
[23:41] <Azelphur> yep
[23:41] <penguin42> have you got natty-updates in ?
[23:42] <Azelphur> i do normal updates
[23:42] <Azelphur> dont think i have any of the new stuff enabled


[00:36] <duanedesign> Squirrel, lol
[00:53] <pleia2> doctormo: ok, I'm around, I'm going to see if I can break art now ;)
[00:59] <pleia2> doctormo: actually, I think I sorted out permissions so you *should* be able to do it, can you give it a try?
[00:59] <pleia2> permissions are going to be the concern here, we want it all to still be owned by you, but give www-data access to write (so I made them of the www-data group)
[01:38] <doctormo> pleia2: back
[01:39] <pleia2> wb :)
[01:41] <DiegoTc> doctormo, do you have time for a small python question?
[01:41] <doctormo> DiegoTc: how can I help you?
[01:41] <DiegoTc> doctormo, I am having a little trouble with a for loop in c i can have a for this way
[01:42] <DiegoTc> for(int i=99;i>0;i--)
[01:42] <DiegoTc> i thought that in python it will be this way
[01:42] <DiegoTc> for i in range (10,0):
[01:42] <DiegoTc> but it looks i am wrong :(
[01:43] <doctormo> DiegoTc: What is wrong with for i in range(10): ?
[01:44] <DiegoTc> doctormo, I want to print numbers this way 10,9,8,7,6,.....
[01:44] <DiegoTc> no 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,...
[01:45] <doctormo> the hack is just to say "for i in range(10): print 10 -i
[01:45] <doctormo> but range can do that too
[01:46] <DiegoTc> so how it will be the range way¿?
[01:47] <doctormo> DiegoTc: What you need to do is look at the range method, it's range([start=0], stop, [step=1])
[01:48] <DiegoTc> ohh thanks
[01:48] <doctormo> DiegoTc: Which means range(10, 0, -1) will work. Of course we'll never get anything out of range(10, 0) because 10+1 can never get to 0
[01:48] <doctormo> DiegoTc: Remember to get yourself into a python command line (type python at the bash shell) and do help(method) on anything you need help for.
[01:48] <doctormo> q to exit the help
[01:49] <DiegoTc> whoa a little difference from c++ or java
[01:49] <DiegoTc> thanks doctormo
[01:50] <doctormo> DiegoTc: Python is more like Perl than C or Java. It's very, very different in how it operates.
[01:50] <doctormo> yw
[01:50] <doctormo> pleia2: back to you
[01:50] <doctormo> I'm munching right now
[01:52] <pleia2> ok :)
[01:52] <pleia2> well, I think you have the permission to do what you need now
[01:52] <pleia2> so if you want to give it a go - all yours!
[01:56] <doctormo> pleia2: aye aye
[01:56] <doctormo> thanks skipper
[01:57] <pleia2> sure, just let me know if you have any trouble, I'll be around this evening
[02:02] <zkriesse_> hey lyz
[02:03] <pleia2> evening, zkriesse_
[02:03] <zkriesse_> how are ya?
[02:06] <pleia2> doing good, busy as always, you?
[02:07] <zkriesse_> the same
[02:08] <zkriesse_> college, job hunting, multiple ubuntu projects
[02:56] <doctormo> pleia2: dagoba doesn't have bzip2 support?
[03:00] <pleia2> I'll install it, sec
[03:01] <pleia2> doctormo: installed
[03:05] <doctormo> pleia2: Thanks! ok so the permissions are a bit off kilter, most files are owned by www-data user and doctormo group, so some directories don't have a writer permission for group.
[03:05] <doctormo> I thought it would have been the other way round
[03:06] <pleia2> yeah that's weird, it's the opposite of what it was
[03:06] <pleia2> kinda
[03:07] <pleia2> just gave group write to content/
[03:07] <pleia2> everything else you should have access to, I think
[03:08] <pleia2> doctormo: you should be able to look in htdocs.bak to see what the permissions were earlier today before I gave your user permissions, that might give you a clue as to why it's wonky
[03:09] <doctormo> pleia2: It was htdocs/art_files/images that had the problem
[03:10] <doctormo> And it's weird because the contents are 777
[03:10] <pleia2> ok, group has write now
[03:11] <doctormo> pleia2: Ah the content directory can be given to www-data user and group if you like, it's not in the repository. up to you of course.
[03:12] <pleia2> ok
[03:13] <pleia2> having ccadmin/ there is confusing the live site
[03:13] <pleia2> I think
[03:15] <doctormo> pleia2: OK we're set, we just need a cronjob, do you want that to run as my user?
[03:16] <pleia2> yeah
[03:16] <pleia2> and yay! :)
[03:20] <doctormo> OK set to 2:05 each morning to do a bzr pull.
[03:20] <pleia2> great
[05:39] <nhandler> doctormo: Is that for ubuntu-owl or one of the other sites?
[05:40] <pleia2> it's art.ubuntu-owl.org
[05:40] <nhandler> pleia2: Think we should setup a similar cronjob for ubuntu-owl ?
[05:40] <pleia2> probably :)


[00:34] <wickedpz> hi
[00:41] <tgm4883> hi
[00:46] <wickedpz> Checkout the work weve done to my sixties Oldsmobile Toronado: http://postimage.org/gallery/bsnh5k8/
[00:58] <bkerensa> wickedpz:  hmm?
[01:06] <wickedpz> hmm hmm?
[03:32] <tgm4883> bammo
[03:33]  * tgm4883 just finished setting up radius authentication on his wifi


[00:38] <dtchen> for those of you idling for the piuparts/vm session, i've placed some notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs/2009-04-23
[00:39] <dtchen> it's a good idea to go ahead and configure pbuilder, piuparts, and your vm
[01:00] <dtchen> all right folks, it being 00:00 utc and such, let's roll on through. i hear there's a release being prepared. :-)
[01:01] <nhandler> :)
[01:01] <dtchen> again, this packaging session will introduce piuparts for package testing, and we'll mention how to use a VM to further test functionality
[01:02] <dtchen> there are some notes (and corrections!) at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs/2009-04-23, so please take look and get your prerequisites all shiny
[01:02] <kklimonda> damn, I've managed to stay awake for this session.. any cookies for me? ;}
[01:02] <dtchen> cough, take a* look
[01:02] <dtchen> any questions before we dive in?
[01:03] <kklimonda> Why so late? ;)
[01:03] <dtchen> (no idea! the schedule rotation deems it so)
[01:03] <dtchen> ok, and with that resounding silence, let's get started.
[01:04] <kklimonda> dtchen: wait - how to configure piuparts?
[01:04] <kklimonda> do i even have to?
[01:04] <eythian> hopefully this VM gets installed before you're too far through.
[01:04] <kklimonda> :)
[01:04] <dtchen> piuparts(8) is a tool for providing a somewhat systematic method for testing whether a binary package can be installed and removed, and/or any of the intermediate upgrade steps
[01:05] <Pollywog> we are installing a vm?
[01:05] <dtchen> kklimonda: as long as you have piuparts installed, that will suffice
[01:05] <eythian> Pollywog: My desktop is intrepid
[01:05] <Pollywog> ic
[01:05] <dtchen> eythian: / Pollywog: you don't necessarily *need* a VM, but it's quite useful for actual usage testing
[01:06] <dtchen> (ok, back to topic)
[01:06] <dtchen> some (many?) people are familiar with building binary packages from source packages on their local systems
[01:07] <dtchen> pbuilder is but one such utility - granted, it's a very nice utility
[01:07] <dtchen> briefly, one would do something akin to: # pbuilder build foo.dsc
[01:08] <dtchen> if everything "goes well", one ends up with ../*.deb (and the other parts of the source package)
[01:08] <dtchen> people often then use dpkg -i (or gdebi or ...) to install ../*.deb
[01:09] <dtchen> however, pbuilder has one fairly glaring omission in the maintenance sense: it doesn't actually test-install/remove/etc. the generated binary packages
[01:09] <kklimonda> dtchen: is it possible to install packages in pbuilder chroot without too much work?
[01:09] <nhandler> Yes kklimonda
[01:09] <dtchen> kklimonda: absolutely, and i'll touch on that briefly, too, with something called pbuilder hooks
[01:10] <dtchen> since kklimonda provided such a nice segue...
[01:10] <dtchen> pbuilder has an extension mechanism known as hooks. take a look in /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/
[01:11] <dtchen> now, piuparts and pbuilder hooks for executing an install/upgrade/removal test are nominally similar
[01:11] <dtchen> where piuparts really differs is the ability to test install/upgrade/removal for an entire archive
[01:11] <dtchen> that's a bit much for pbuilder (although it's certainly possible with some additional scripting)
[01:12] <dtchen> (so, next time you encounter liw online, give him a virtual beer)
[01:12] <dtchen> does anyone have any questions regarding what piuparts is used for?
[01:13] <kklimonda> no
[01:13] <dtchen> ok, now let's look at the functional testing of binary packages
[01:14] <dtchen> piuparts and pbuilder (with hooks) are useful for fairly basic testing, but they don't actually test whether your pbuilt/sbuilt package actually starts, throws pretty screen bling up, crackles/hisses/pops, etc.
[01:14] <dtchen> (err, oops, was that pulseaudio?)
[01:14] <kklimonda> :)
[01:15] <dtchen> to get a sense of whether your package works, you really should use a VM. at the very least, you can install in the pbuilder chroot and invoke the program(s).
[01:15] <dtchen> now that i've set the stage, let's look at the two munged source packages i've placed at http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/package-training-2009.04.23/
[01:16] <dtchen> the first is oss-compat, and we'll use that to demonstrate piuparts
[01:16] <nhandler> Should we download the packages?
[01:16] <dtchen> yes, we should have the munged source packages downloaded
[01:17] <kklimonda> done
[01:17] <dtchen> for people who preferred `apt-get source oss-compat', i'll pastebin the debdiff
[01:17] <dtchen> (well, the relevant portion)
[01:18] <nhandler> For everyone else, you can use dget to download the source package
[01:18] <dtchen> http://paste.ubuntu.com/156227/
[01:19] <dtchen> so the basic idea here is that as of jaunty, module-init-tools requires files to have the ".conf" suffix/extension
[01:19] <dtchen> this modification is a fairly straightforward one: we look at the source package and modify debian/postinst
[01:20] <dtchen> (then adjust debian/control, add/modify the changelog entry, etc.)
[01:20] <dtchen> now, when that package is pbuilt using pbuilder [without hooks], the deb will be generated correctly
[01:21] <dtchen> this case is an excellent illustration of where the install pbuilder hook and piuparts shine
[01:21] <dtchen> because the actual error lies in the postinst, pbuilder [without hooks] won't throw any errors
[01:21] <dtchen> so let's actually use piuparts ;-)
[01:22] <dtchen> the syntax is fairly basic:
[01:22] <dtchen> sudo piuparts foo.deb
[01:23] <dtchen> on my system, because i use apt-cacher-ng, the syntax is bit more convoluted:
[01:23] <dtchen> sudo piuparts -m "http://localhost:3142/ubuntu" --skip-minimize -- foo.deb
[01:24] <kklimonda> dtchen: i get " E: Couldn't find package debfoster"
[01:25] <kklimonda> I've added --skip-minimize and it worked
[01:25] <dtchen> if you're using jaunty, you'll probably need the --skip-minimize
[01:25] <dtchen> now, piuparts will create a minimal chroot if you use the above command, but most of you likely have a pbuilder base.tgz (or jaunty.tgz or whatnot) already
[01:26] <dtchen> you can instruct piuparts to use the existing pbuilder base.tgz by passing -p
[01:26] <dtchen> (so, as piuparts runs...)
[01:26] <kklimonda> dtchen: -p ? not -b ?
[01:27] <dtchen> kklimonda: -b is more flexible
[01:27] <kklimonda> i see - it's a shortcut
[01:27] <kklimonda> :)
[01:27] <kklimonda> dtchen: but still when i use my pbuilder base.tgz I get "E: Couldn't find package debfoster" error
[01:28] <dtchen> kklimonda: are you using jaunty's piuparts?
[01:28] <kklimonda> dtchen: yes
[01:28] <kklimonda> 0.35ubuntu1
[01:28] <dtchen> let's troubleshoot that offline
[01:29] <Pollywog> so piuparts is different for different releases?
[01:29] <juanje1> kklimonda: adding --keep-sources-list option probably it works
[01:29] <kklimonda> dtchen: appending --skip-minimize (as adviced in bug #317721) helps
[01:29] <kklimonda> oh, no ubottu here :)
[01:29] <dtchen> Pollywog: ideally, no - however, there is a difference between the Debian and Ubuntu components and priorities
[01:30] <kklimonda> juanje1: yes - it also worked
[01:30] <dtchen> the Ubuntu modification in jaunty helps work around it, but it's imperfect)(
[01:30] <dtchen> (hmm, Home key fail)
[01:31] <asomething> dtchen: -b is used to specify a specific base tarball, right? I've got pbuilder set up for jaunty, intrepid, and sid
[01:31] <dtchen> asomething: correct
[01:31] <dtchen> now, piuparts's output is fairly verbose
[01:32] <dtchen> the parts we're interested in lie toward the end of the output
[01:32] <dtchen> namely, PASS/FAIL/ERROR
[01:33] <dtchen> note the:
[01:33] <dtchen> ERROR: Broken symlinks:
[01:33] <dtchen>   /etc/modprobe.d/oss-compat.conf -> /lib/oss-compat/linu
[01:33] <dtchen> (that's deftly illustrated at http://paste.ubuntu.com/156227/)
[01:34] <dtchen> the process of correcting the error as a maintainer is fairly intuitive
[01:34] <dtchen> we readd the omitted character, regenerate the source package, rebuild it, rerun piuparts on it. (rinse, lather, repeat)
[01:35] <dtchen> any questions thus far?
[01:36] <dtchen> ok, so we've quickly demonstrated how piuparts can assist in catching maintainer script errors
[01:37] <dtchen> now, as maintainers/developers, we're supposed to be testing all our changes
[01:37] <dtchen> due to whatever excuses, many of us don't ;-)
[01:37] <dtchen> functional testing, however, is quite important
[01:38] <dtchen> really, changes must be tested in a VM for both correctness and efficiency
[01:38] <dtchen> the second example munged source package in my kernel.ubuntu.com space is pavucontrol
[01:39] <dtchen> the change that actually makes jaunty's pavucontrol binary package usable is introduced in debian/patches/0002-Handle-noninitialised-data.patch
[01:40] <dtchen> several iterations of that patch were generated before i discovered that upstream's fix wasn't entirely applicable to our source package
[01:40] <dtchen> i.e., sometimes it's not as straightforward as "just applying upstream fixes"
[01:41] <dtchen> briefly, jaunty ships with an older pulseaudio source package with many, many backported alsa fixes
[01:41] <dtchen> these backported fixes differ from the current upstream source package, and therefore there are several assumptions in upstream's pavucontrol fix that aren't applicable to Ubuntu
[01:42] <kklimonda> mhm
[01:42] <kklimonda> so we should use "test before release" as our mantra ? :)
[01:44] <dtchen> for our purposes, however, we're only going to illustrate that using a VM to test changes is the most efficient manner of demonstrating that a bug was fixed
[01:44] <dtchen> (that's bug 359274)
[01:44] <dtchen> if one were to take my munged source package, it is functionally equivalent to jaunty's superceded 0.9.7-1ubuntu1
[01:44] <dtchen> that version crashes as soon as a user attempts to mute System Sounds in the Playback tab
[01:44] <dtchen> thus, testing in a VM (or a chroot or whatnot) is the simplest way to demonstrate the efficacy of a fix
[01:44] <dtchen> absolutely
[01:45] <dtchen> since many people don't have VMs configured, i won't insist that everyone duplicate the crash right this moment, but run through it on your own time, and remember that development really needs this constant testing
[01:46] <dtchen> anecdote: if i had consistently used piuparts on my alsa-* and pulseaudio* source uploads for jaunty, i probably would have eliminated a half-dozen uploads
[01:46] <dtchen> so, what do we take away from this session? using piuparts is good. testing in a vm after using piuparts is good.
[01:47] <dtchen> i'll open it up for general questions now.
[01:47] <Pollywog> are there some Ubuntu-specific tutorials?
[01:47] <Pollywog> for piuparts
[01:48] <dtchen> no, but feel free to pitch in :-)
[01:48] <dtchen> (this session was just an intro to piuparts)
[01:48] <kklimonda> dtchen: i have a minor problem with pbuilder but it's unrelated to this class.
[01:48] <dtchen> kklimonda: right, we can discuss that offline in -motu after this session
[01:48] <kklimonda> ok
[01:49] <dtchen> Pollywog: do you have specific questions on using piuparts in a particular context?
[01:49] <kklimonda> dtchen: thanks for piuparts introduction - i was going to read about it some time ago and then forgot how it's called :)
[01:49] <nhandler> dtchen: Is there a hook for pbuilder to have it run the deb through piuparts?
[01:50] <Pollywog> no, I am really confused because I have not used piuparts
[01:50] <dtchen> nhandler: no, but there's some duplication in /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/B91dpkg-i
[01:50] <Pollywog> I have played with pbuilder a few times
[01:50] <Pollywog> but in Debian
[01:51] <dtchen> Pollywog: ok. very briefly, one uses pbuilder to generate a set of binary package(s) from a source package
[01:51] <dtchen> Pollywog: however, pbuilder by default does not actually test the installation/upgrade/removal of said generated binary package(s)
[01:52] <dtchen> Pollywog: it can be particularly troublesome if errors lie in the maintainer scripts
[01:52] <dtchen> (since we only encounter those at package install/upgrade/removal)
[01:54] <dtchen> Pollywog: try this: sudo piuparts --skip-minimize hello
[01:54] <dtchen> juanje1: i have not tried using jaunty's piuparts on hardy, so i don't know offhand if it's feasible
[01:54] <dtchen> juanje1: one thing to be aware of is the python2.6 transition
[01:55] <dtchen> Pollywog: err, i think i omitted an -a
[01:56] <Pollywog> I will need to get the sources for hello
[01:57] <Pollywog> oh something happened
[01:57] <dtchen> Pollywog: actually, you don't have to retrieve the sources
[01:57] <Pollywog> yes I see that now
[01:57] <dtchen> Pollywog: -a instructs piuparts to retrieve from the repository using apt-get
[01:57] <Pollywog> I added the -a
[01:58] <dtchen> juanje1: i generally filter the output in some other process
[01:58] <dtchen> juanje1: the verboseness of piuparts can be cumbersome
[01:59] <Pollywog> is there a way to adjust the verbosity?
[01:59] <dtchen> Pollywog: not quite
[01:59] <Pollywog> k
[02:00] <dtchen> any other questions before we wrap up?
[02:00] <Pollywog> none here
[02:00] <Pollywog> dtchen: thanks for the class
[02:00] <dtchen> no prob, thanks all!
[02:00] <juanje1> dtchen: yep, thanks :-)
[02:01] <asomething> dtchen: thanks!
[02:02] <dtchen> so, next week is dholbach with "Getting Started with Ubuntu Development"
[02:02] <dtchen> it will take place on 30 April 2009, 06:00 UTC
[02:02] <dtchen> hope to see you here!
[23:06] <HymnToLife> guess I'll do a Photoshop break in an hour
[23:06] <macman> this chan has always been here ?
[23:07] <HymnToLife> yes
[23:07] <HymnToLife> Thu 23 Apr 2009 22:07:27 UTC
[23:07] <HymnToLife> bodhi_zazen: surely you mean in TWO hours ;)
[23:08] <kklimonda> what is this class going to be about?
[23:08] <HymnToLife> /topic
[23:09] <kklimonda> SSH?
[23:09] <bodhi_zazen> ssh
[23:10] <bodhi_zazen> two hours, lol
[23:10] <bodhi_zazen> ah, yes :)
[23:10] <bodhi_zazen> sorry
[23:10] <kklimonda> what exactly? ssh basics - rsa keys etc. ?
[23:11] <bodhi_zazen> kklimonda: what ever people like
[23:12] <bodhi_zazen> I would like these sessions to be Q&A more then lectures
[23:12] <bodhi_zazen> and I have a shared ssh session set up so can demo commands in a shared session
[23:12] <kklimonda> mhm
[23:13] <bodhi_zazen> >:)
[23:13] <bodhi_zazen> http://paste.ubuntu.com/156798/
[23:13] <bodhi_zazen> you will not be able to log in as of yet though
[23:15] <HymnToLife> >O
[23:15] <HymnToLife> a lecture on SSH would be easy
[23:16] <HymnToLife> 1. Get "SSH: the definitive guite" from O'REilly
[23:16] <HymnToLife> 2. Read it
[23:16] <HymnToLife> 3. ???
[23:16] <HymnToLife> 4.