[02:58] <humphreybc> okay guys i've just pimped the 48 hours on a whole heap of mailing lists and facebook
[02:59] <humphreybc> i love the sentence i constructed that totally sells it :P
[02:59] <humphreybc> "Want to help out with Ubuntu but don't know much about programming or how to contribute? The Ubuntu Manual Project makes it easy for people of all levels of experience and areas of talent to help out! From authors to design to programming, we've got it covered - and you can learn how to get involved by joining us at 48 Hours of Ubuntu Manual Learning this Monday and Tuesday!"
[03:00] <humphreybc> so yes, we have to totally make this event ROCK!
[03:00]  * godbyk starts working on his slides...
[03:02] <humphreybc> godbyk: yeah i have to do some more slides... eek
[03:02] <godbyk> Also, I'm apparently going to have to just take short naps for the next three days.  Time zones suck!
[03:03] <humphreybc> yeah tell me about
[03:03] <godbyk> humphreybc: what did you want to email me about before?
[03:04] <humphreybc> oh nothing, i just wanted to put the email addresses of the key people in one of my slides
[03:04] <humphreybc> i hope you guys don't mind, if you do I _can_ take them out but i'd prefer them to be there
[03:04] <godbyk> ah, gotcha.
[03:04] <godbyk> doesn't bother me.
[03:05] <godbyk> I can hit 'delete' as easily as anything else. ;-)
[03:05]  * humphreybc 172 fans on facebook is pretty impressive i must say
[03:06] <humphreybc> i think we need to revamp the ubuntu manual logo
[03:06] <humphreybc> i might do that
[03:09] <godbyk> Do it now then so I can use it in my slides. :)
[03:09] <humphreybc> don't have time, maybe later :D
[03:09] <humphreybc> don't worry about the logo in the slides
[03:10] <humphreybc> I just used the "Ubuntu human" template in open office
[03:10] <humphreybc> it looks okay
[03:10] <godbyk> Do you have the source files for the Ubuntu Manual 48-hours logo someplace?
[03:10] <humphreybc> I do but they're PSD
[03:10] <godbyk> I'm using LaTeX beamer.
[03:10] <humphreybc> and not transparant - hence why I need to make a new one
[03:10] <godbyk> Heathen!
[03:10] <humphreybc> yeah I know, I bought an android cellphone, run ubuntu on my laptop and server and install ubuntu on all my family and friends' computers, but i will not part from photoshop!
[03:11] <humphreybc> but they tell me the next version of gimp is very very good
[03:11] <humphreybc> and apparently better than photoshop!
[03:11] <humphreybc> so i might have to switch :D
[03:11] <godbyk> You should at least use inkscape for the simple logos like that.  vector graphics are nice.
[03:12] <humphreybc> yeah i need to have a play with inkscape
[03:12] <humphreybc> haven't got round to it yet
[03:12] <humphreybc> one of these days
[03:12] <humphreybc> :P
[03:14] <godbyk> It's pretty awesome.
[03:17] <humphreybc> i have heard great things about t
[03:17] <humphreybc> it*
[03:18] <godbyk> are we supposed to use any particular theme for slides? or just do our own thing?
[03:18] <humphreybc> just do whatever you like
[03:19] <humphreybc> you're in charge of the class
[03:19] <godbyk> k
[03:20] <humphreybc> OH THE POWER! haha
[03:22] <humphreybc> right i'm heading out for the afternoon, talk to ya'll later. i'll be on all night because i have to stay up till 2am for this session with cjohnston
[03:51] <cjohnston> 2am hmm?
[03:51] <cjohnston> I guess he is gone
[07:31]  * humphreybc found a headset in one of his drawers full of computer stuff! Now I can make that ground control how to video and it will actually sound good!
[07:31] <humphreybc> btw, who has skype?
[07:36] <humphreybc> godbyk: ping
[07:37] <godbyk> humphreybc: pong
[07:37] <godbyk> I have skype
[07:37] <humphreybc> is there a list of latex commands somewhere?
[07:37] <humphreybc> ie
[07:37] <humphreybc> not generic ones
[07:37] <humphreybc> but ones you've created for us
[07:37] <godbyk> Not yet.  There will be once I finish my handout for the 48-hours thing, though.
[07:37] <humphreybc> and what's your skype username? not that I need to call you but I'm trying to make my contact list look a little less sad with 6 people :)
[07:37] <humphreybc> awesome
[07:37] <godbyk> Mine's godbyk.
[07:37] <humphreybc> oO a handout :D
[07:38] <humphreybc> also i just added a 48 hours folder to the branch with some of my stuff in it
[07:38] <godbyk> well, a lot of the stuff doesn't really work on slides.  Who wants to flip through slides to find something if they can have a booklet instead?
[07:38] <godbyk> But I'm doing the slides first, and then I'll work on the handout.
[07:38] <humphreybc> if you could put your stuff in there too that'd be neat. then people can use it as help after we actually do 48 hours, i'll rename the folder to "Help Documents"
[07:39] <humphreybc> and i'll reorganize it from username based stuff to topic based help with all the slides/handouts/material from 48 hours
[07:39] <godbyk> maybe just name it 'docs'?
[07:39] <godbyk> (btw, spaces in folder names can occasionally cause problems, I'd avoid 'em.)
[07:39] <humphreybc> I want to folder to stand out amongst all the chapter folders
[07:39] <humphreybc> okay cool
[07:39] <humphreybc> well maybe "HELP" haha
[07:39] <humphreybc> or just "help"
[07:39] <godbyk> heh
[07:40] <humphreybc> I think it'll be yet another valuable resource to point newbies :D
[07:40] <godbyk> yep
[07:40] <humphreybc> i love it how we're writing help documentation, but we have our own help documentation....
[07:40] <godbyk> :)
[07:40] <humphreybc> so we're writing help documentation for the project that's writing help documentation for the OS that's designed to help users get things done. man we're sooo nice.
[08:51] <IlyaHaykinson> my PC is clearly too slow to run Open Office happily.
[08:52] <IlyaHaykinson> but i cannot succumb to buying another machine.
[08:52] <IlyaHaykinson> i already feel like i have too many.
[08:52] <IlyaHaykinson> two work desktops, a work laptop, a personal netbook, and a home desktop. another machine and i'll start going crazy! :)
[08:53] <humphreybc> lol
[08:53] <humphreybc> combine them all together into one crazy super computer :D
[08:55] <IlyaHaykinson> well, they're not all in one place. plus i can't carry a crazy super computer around, it'll be too heavy :)
[08:57] <TommyBrunn> Not if you mount it onto some sort of backpack rack!
[08:59] <IlyaHaykinson> clearly that's my answer ;-)
[09:01] <humphreybc> haha
[09:12] <humphreybc> hey thorwil, how do you spell your last name correctly?
[09:13] <humphreybc> and do you have any objections to me putting your email address in one of the slides for 48 hours?
[09:13] <thorwil> humphreybc: hi. Wilms
[09:13] <thorwil> humphreybc: why would you do that?
[09:14] <humphreybc> okay cool. there's a slide where I introduce the key members of our project
[09:14] <humphreybc> and everyone has their email address, but i wanted to make sure it was okay
[09:14] <IlyaHaykinson> ok, pushed my slides; going to bed.
[09:14] <IlyaHaykinson> i think i'll skip the training in 4 hrs, it's just bad timing for me. humphreybc, if you're up, can you keep a log and send it to me, just in case?
[09:14] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: cool, catchya later :)
[09:14] <thorwil> humphreybc: it's ok, my email address is hardly a secret
[09:14] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: yep I can do that
[09:15] <thorwil> and all email harvesters have it already
[09:15] <humphreybc> thorwil: okay cool, thanks
[09:16] <IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: thx.
[09:16] <TommyBrunn> Got the account face avatar thingy working now. No idea why it didn't work last night, as I haven't changed a single line of code since then.
[09:20] <humphreybc> welcome to programming :P
[09:56] <TommyBrunn> humphreybc We need to decide on how to structure the screenshot branches.
[09:57] <TommyBrunn> My vote goes for having a separate branch for each language.
[09:57] <humphreybc> yep me too
[09:58] <dutchie> humphreybc: jshhholland on skype
[09:58] <dutchie> you can be my first contact
[09:58] <humphreybc> haha
[10:04] <humphreybc> hey so dutchie what's all this about the training thing?
[10:06] <dutchie> 19:46:20 < cjohnston|cell> dutchie: 1300 utc tomorrow for testing the classbot + training for instructors
[10:06] <dutchie> 19:46:38 < cjohnston|cell> In ##ubuntu-cr and ##ubuntu-cr-chat
[10:08] <dutchie> that's all I know
[10:08] <humphreybc> okay cool
[10:10] <TommyBrunn> So, I'm not sure how we're supposed to deal with the branches. We need to create branches that anyone can push to, I guess. But I have no idea how to go about doing this.
[10:11] <TommyBrunn> And where should the branches be? In the ubuntu manual Launchpad project
[10:12] <dutchie> how about lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/screenshots-LANG?
[10:12] <TommyBrunn> Sure. Speaking of which, I guess we don't have to worry about having multiple versions of the same language? Like en_US and en_UK (or whatever it is), for example.
[10:13] <dutchie> why would you have to worry?
[10:14] <TommyBrunn> Well, there could be minor differences between the two - although they should be negligible.
[10:16] <humphreybc> noo
[10:16] <humphreybc> we don't want to put them in the ubuntu manual branch
[10:16] <humphreybc> we want to keep them separate
[10:16] <humphreybc> we need en_US and en_UK
[10:16] <humphreybc> because they are "languages"
[10:17] <humphreybc> and are diffferent
[10:17] <TommyBrunn> So you will distribute two English versions of the manual then?
[10:17] <humphreybc> I suggest we either tie them to the quickshot project, or create another project entirely just for screenshots
[10:17] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: yep
[10:17] <humphreybc> and the en_US will be US Letter size, the en_UK will be A4 sized
[10:17] <TommyBrunn> I see.
[10:17] <humphreybc> it's all very fun :)
[10:18] <humphreybc> haha
[10:18] <humphreybc> and the readers are very lucky to have so many options
[10:18] <TommyBrunn> Anyway, it doesn't really matter to me, as long as someone creates them and we have a simple way of organizing them.
[10:19] <humphreybc> yep
[10:19] <humphreybc> we need to give everyone write access to those branches too
[10:19] <humphreybc> i need to talk to the lp guys to see how we can do it
[10:19] <humphreybc> afaik launchpad has never been used in this way before
[10:20] <TommyBrunn> And what about when the user wants to push their changes. Should we keep it simple and just have them push straight to quickshot/screenshots/screenshot_en_US (or whatever), or should we have them push to ~username/quickshot/screenshots/screenshot_en_US and then somehow create a merge request?
[10:22] <humphreybc> eek
[10:22] <humphreybc> KISS
[10:22] <humphreybc> keep it simple simon
[10:22] <humphreybc> merging could get very very very messy
[10:22] <TommyBrunn> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too.
[10:22] <humphreybc> you could grab some code from ground control
[10:22] <humphreybc> lp:groundcontrol
[10:22] <humphreybc> i know martin well, he could help too
[10:23] <humphreybc> well, he doesn't have enough time to actually help, but he does know a lot about launchpad and bzr now
[10:23] <TommyBrunn> You have mentioned this Martin character a number of times now, yet I still have no idea who he is. :D
[10:23] <humphreybc> http://doctormo.wordpress.com/
[10:23] <humphreybc> https://edge.launchpad.net/~doctormo
[10:23] <humphreybc> doctormo on IRC
[10:25] <humphreybc> dutchie: anyone pick up editing?
[10:35] <dutchie> humphreybc: not as far as i've heard
[10:35] <humphreybc> eek
[10:55] <ubuntujenkins> can as many people as possible please run  "lshw | grep -C +11 display" and paste the output here http://paste.ubuntu.com/ it will help with quickshot, thank you.
[10:56] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/380901/
[10:56] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/380902/
[10:59] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc what driver are you using the open ati or the proprietary one?
[10:59] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: I'm using the open source ati one
[10:59] <dutchie> http://pastebin.com/f41b61d31
[11:00] <ubuntujenkins> thanks people now to ask on a busy channel
[11:02] <godbyk> Okay, what have I forgotten? http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/um-latex-slides.pdf
[11:02] <godbyk> (I'm getting tired and my brain's fried.)
[11:02] <godbyk> brb.. need water
[11:05] <godbyk> back
[11:07] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk  it good only one thing i notieced. On slide 13 you have Applications>Accessories........... I think the use of arrows goes against the style guide https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/StyleGuide#Formatting
[11:09] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Actually, the very first thing mentioned under that heading is what I'm demonstrating.
[11:09] <godbyk> (I'm renaming the \nav command to \menu, btw.)
[11:12] <ubuntujenkins> O now that heading has changed but its now contradicts its self it tells you to use arrows but underneath tells you not to use arrows.
[11:13] <ubuntujenkins> I don't mind as long as the manual is consistent
[11:13] <godbyk> Well, from a style standpoint, it's frowned upon.  My talk is about LaTeX, though, so I'm just teaching the commands.
[11:13] <godbyk> In short, you're allowed to use the arrows, but it's not the preferred way.
[11:14] <ubuntujenkins> fair enough I was being picky :) It did teach me something I need to change \menuitem with \menu
[11:14] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yep.  though I haven't committed that code yet. :-)
[11:15] <ubuntujenkins> right glad you told me that I was going to do find and replace on my stuff
[11:15] <c7p> hey guys, i ve got a question about tommorow's meeting, #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat channels will host same teacher at the same time?
[11:15] <godbyk> I'll give you a heads up when I've fixed all that.
[11:16] <ubuntujenkins> cool thanks
[11:17] <dutchie> c7p: what do you mean? I think we will have our teachers in both channels, if that's what you want
[11:17] <godbyk> c7p: I think both channels will be used.
[11:18] <godbyk> Phrased another way: You should join both channels as they'll be used together.
[11:18]  * humphreybc finished recording a ground control step by step walkthrough video... i sound very very very quiet haha
[11:18] <c7p> thx
[11:19] <dutchie> c7p: alternatively, try Jono's Lernid program
[11:19] <dutchie> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid
[11:19] <c7p> yeah i read the wiki
[11:19] <dutchie> godbyk: what is the exact reason we need TL2009? (for my talk on building translations)
[11:20] <godbyk> Because we're using the polyglossia package to handle the different languages.  And it's not available for TL2007.
[11:20] <godbyk> Also, the glossary stuff (when I get to it) will require TL2009.
[11:20] <dutchie> cheers
[11:20] <godbyk> The glossary stuff in TL2007 is woefully out of date and not as nice.
[11:22]  * humphreybc is rendering the video... exciting!
[11:22] <humphreybc> i think this is the nicest screencast i have made
[11:22] <c7p> what is it about?
[11:23] <humphreybc> it's a video for the ground control session i'm teaching tomorrow :)
[11:23] <c7p> nice :)
[11:23] <humphreybc> yep
[11:23] <humphreybc> now i just have to make some slides for the other sessions and we should all be good
[11:25] <humphreybc> Looking through Ilya's slides, i can't think of much one would say in the editing session that he hasn't already covered
[11:26] <humphreybc> pitivi dont fail me now
[11:29] <c7p> ok teachers cya tomorrow ;)
[11:29] <humphreybc> so dutchie how does lernid actually present the slides?
[11:29] <dutchie> it splits the top section in half and shows them in there iirc
[11:29] <humphreybc> ah okay
[11:30] <humphreybc> can i show a youtube video there instead?
[11:30] <dutchie> don't think so
[11:30] <dutchie> but it does automatically open any links you paste
[11:31] <dutchie> http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4303297886_034bfa5e5d_o.jpg
[11:31] <humphreybc> oh what the hell
[11:31] <humphreybc> pitivi you suck!
[11:31] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc are you still doing a session at 1500 the wiki says you are but the schedule in lernid says not. I will be in a lab at that time and will run home in between.
[11:31] <humphreybc> yep my first session is at 1500
[11:32] <ubuntujenkins> cool web irc it is I can see not lab work being done :)
[11:32] <TommyBrunn> humphreybc if PiTiVi is failing you, you should give Openshot a go. It's a great deal more stable.
[11:33] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: yeah i'll give openshot a go in a sec. pitivi is all good until it tries to render something
[11:33] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc flash does work in lernid watching youtube now.
[11:33] <humphreybc> i think it's actually something to do with the .ogv format
[11:33] <ubuntujenkins> I found .avi worked in pitvi
[11:33] <humphreybc> what muxers etc did you use?
[11:33] <humphreybc> i've tried to change the settings for encoding but i couldn't get anything to work apart from .ogv which semi worked
[11:34] <ubuntujenkins> the pre set ones worked for me
[11:34] <issyl0> Hello!
[11:34] <humphreybc> the preset ones render to .ogv, regardless of whether you change the file extension to .avi or anything else
[11:34] <humphreybc> it's a bit shit, to use some french.
[11:35] <ubuntujenkins> click the modiy button then choose avi in the container drop down
[11:35] <ubuntujenkins> hello issyl0
[11:36] <humphreybc> righto, and audio?
[11:36] <humphreybc> it seems to hate when the video goes from a still image to a video
[11:36] <issyl0> ubuntujenkins: hi, I'm hoping to be able to help out more today now that bzr and Lp work :)
[11:37] <ubuntujenkins> sounds like a plan issyl0
[11:37] <humphreybc> so just the avimuxer you reckon... hmm
[11:37] <ubuntujenkins> just running a tes now
[11:37] <ubuntujenkins> *test
[11:38] <issyl0> ubuntujenkins: definitely :)
[11:39] <ubuntujenkins> http://imagebin.org/85807 works for me you can change the fps (humphreybc)
[11:39] <humphreybc> hmm okay
[11:39] <humphreybc> see my source video is only 15FPS
[11:39] <ubuntujenkins> issyl0 would you mind running "lshw | grep -C +11 display" and paste the output here http://paste.ubuntu.com/ it will help with quickshot for the ubuntu manual project, thanks
[11:40] <humphreybc> because recordmydesktop is also pretty gay
[11:40] <humphreybc> audio/video in linux is terrible
[11:40] <humphreybc> with a capital T, so it's Terrible
[11:40]  * humphreybc has to stop using gay as a bad word when talking to people outside of NZ
[11:41] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: are you trying to get some information on what type of resolutions people are using for quickshot?
[11:41] <ubuntujenkins> choose custom that allows you to choose 12fps
[11:41] <humphreybc> so should i choose a lower FPS than the source input?
[11:42] <ubuntujenkins> I am trying to detect the driver in use first then I will work on the resoultion
[11:43] <ubuntujenkins> well choosing higher will make no difference, just try a few and give it a go
[11:44] <humphreybc> omg yay avi actually worked
[12:08] <humphreybc> nickserv help
[12:08] <humphreybc> wait
[12:09] <issyl0> Hehe
[12:09] <humphreybc> how do i change to the admin thing so i can remove that next meeting thing?
[12:09] <humphreybc> i've forgotten
[12:09] <issyl0>  /msg chanserv #ubuntu-manual op
[12:09] <humphreybc> thanks!
[12:09] <issyl0> And then /topic ....
[12:09] <humphreybc> didn't work
[12:10] <dutchie> op #ubuntu-manual
[12:10] <humphreybc> ah
[12:10] <issyl0> It should have done...
[12:10] <humphreybc> other way around :)
[12:10] <issyl0> Aaah
[12:11]  * issyl0 headdesks at the failure - I need to get back into freenode again! :O
[12:11]  * issyl0 did just succeed at making bzr work with her laptop though :)
[12:11]  * humphreybc is totally listening to the bladerunner soundtrack
[12:12] <humphreybc> issyl0: are you a girl? don't see many of them round these parts!
[12:12] <issyl0> humphreybc: I am indeed, however I don't see what that's got to do with anything!  But no, you don't, and it's good I'm getting involved I guess!
[12:13] <humphreybc> it doesn't have anything to do with anything, i'm just impressed :)
[12:13] <issyl0> Ah, well er thanks!
[12:14] <humphreybc> lol
[12:15] <issyl0> I really want to get more involved with Ubuntu and do more to help, so I thought why not join the manual project :)
[12:15] <cjohnston> humphreybc: I just want to confirm before changing the official learning events calendar, you got rid of the editing process class?
[12:15] <humphreybc> heh well yep we're a pretty funky project xD
[12:16] <humphreybc> cjohnston: yep
[12:16] <humphreybc> what's on our wiki now should be final
[12:16] <humphreybc> and then the PDF slides and stuff will trickle in for lernid today and tomorrow, but i think dutchie is handling that
[12:16] <cjohnston> is the wiki the same as the ical
[12:16] <dutchie> I will if you give me URLS
[12:17] <humphreybc> dutchie: ^^
[12:17] <humphreybc> yep i'll get URLs for stuff soon
[12:17] <dutchie> yes, the ical and wiki are in sync
[12:17] <cjohnston> ty
[12:17] <humphreybc> so cjohnston what are we going to learn in 40 minutes?
[12:18] <cjohnston> how to use the bot... the bot will change topics for each class, set the channel to moderated, give voice to instructors
[12:18] <humphreybc> awesome :)
[12:18] <cjohnston> plus, handle the questions from ubuntu-classroom-chat
[12:19] <cjohnston> you can review the question via a pm, and then accept/reject the question
[12:19] <humphreybc> sounds like fun
[12:19] <humphreybc> so we do the teaching from an IRC client, not lernid, right?
[12:19] <humphreybc> lernid simply gives a UI for viewing what's happening in a chatroom as well as showing a website and a PDF file in windows, correct?
[12:20] <cjohnston> i havent looked in a while, but last i checked, there wasnt a way for you to speak in lernid
[12:20] <cjohnston> as of now, that is correct
[12:20] <humphreybc> sweet
[12:20] <cjohnston> there is plans for an instructor module
[12:20] <humphreybc> cool
[12:20] <cjohnston> But I don't believe that is anytime soon
[12:20] <humphreybc> can we as instructors connect to lernid as a guest to make sure everything's running alright?
[12:20] <humphreybc> (from the user's perspective)
[12:21] <dutchie> of course
[12:21] <dutchie> nothing to stop you
[12:21] <humphreybc> okay cool
[12:21] <dutchie> you'll need a different nick though
[12:21] <humphreybc> just making sure :)
[12:23] <humphreybc> i think the Lithuanians are taking over our wiki :P
[12:23] <ubuntujenkins> why?
[12:24] <humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/lithuanian
[12:24] <humphreybc> it's cool though
[12:24] <humphreybc> might go check out #ubuntu-manual-lt
[12:24] <ubuntujenkins> nice to people are enthusiastic
[12:24] <humphreybc> i know it's great :)
[12:25]  * humphreybc 61% of the video uploaded to youtube... gotta love slow upload speeds. not.
[12:25] <issyl0> Ha
[12:26] <humphreybc> dutchie: is there any way for us to actually see how many translators are working on the project?
[12:27] <dutchie> dunno
[12:27] <humphreybc> does rosetta give us some stats
[12:27] <humphreybc> hmm
[12:27] <humphreybc> i'll have a look
[12:28] <humphreybc> doesn't look like it
[12:29] <humphreybc> not very important, just interesting
[12:34] <ziroday> I gotta say, the proposed manual cover is really shiny
[12:34] <ziroday> congrats to the artists
[12:34] <humphreybc> which one is that ziroday? the current one in the branch or the one in the ML?
[12:34] <ziroday> humphreybc: one in the branch
[12:34] <humphreybc> okay yeah, that's going to be refined even more very soon
[12:35] <ziroday> similar to http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MOCs5B8LekE/S0w8KkYW8_I/AAAAAAAAAZ8/oNDJTv5n52w/s1600-h/Cover-lower.png
[12:35] <humphreybc> there's a big announcement to be made on the 25th at the end of this week
[12:35] <ziroday> ooh, can't wait :)
[12:35] <humphreybc> that's going to affect our style :)
[12:35] <humphreybc> and colours etc
[12:35] <ziroday> well so far it looks very shiny
[12:35] <ubuntujenkins> is it a good or bad thing then?
[12:35] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: it's a good thing
[12:36] <ubuntujenkins> cool can't wait
[12:36] <ziroday> ubuntujenkins: progress is never a bad thing ;)
[12:36] <ubuntujenkins> true
[12:36] <humphreybc> and it's not just for the manual, it's for all of ubuntu. i can't tell you any more, but just keep an eye on the planet around 1800 UTC on the 25th
[12:37] <ubuntujenkins> I will be refreshing it loads then :)
[12:37] <humphreybc> :)
[12:49] <godbyk> Boy, life would be a lot easier for me if everyone used the Latin alphabet. :-)
[12:49] <humphreybc> haha
[12:49] <humphreybc> so dutchie where are we going? ##ubuntu-cr?
[12:50] <dutchie> and ##ubuntu-cr-chat
[12:50] <humphreybc> righto
[12:51] <humphreybc> i'm the only one in ##ubuntu-cr-chat
[12:52] <dutchie> humphreybc: you're not in it at all
[12:52] <humphreybc> oh must have typed it wrong
[13:03] <komsas> dutchie: how often u sync translations? Every time when u did that, I want to create lithuanian PDF version.
[13:04] <dutchie> daily-ish
[13:05] <humphreybc> komsas: godbyk is working on a build server for us that will hopefully sync translations and compile daily builds of all the languages
[13:06] <humphreybc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeNXqfofbWk
[13:06] <komsas> oh, awesome!
[13:06] <humphreybc> youtube is still rendering it
[13:06] <humphreybc> but when they're finished it should be in 720P high def :)
[13:09]  * ubuntujenkins watches the video
[13:09] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: you might want to wait for about 10 mins so youtube can render it better
[13:10] <ubuntujenkins> I watch it twice :)
[13:16] <humphreybc> dutchie: currently gertrude isn't in #ubuntu-manual?
[13:16] <dutchie> got netsplitted :(
[13:17] <humphreybc> ?
[13:18] <dutchie> manualbot: ping
[13:18] <manualbot> pong
[13:18] <manualbot> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and you expect me to respond to a ping? How depressing.
[13:18] <humphreybc> lol
[13:19] <humphreybc> that always cracks me up
[13:57] <humphreybc> Ground Control video has been processed, now up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeNXqfofbWk
[13:58] <humphreybc> view it in HD! yay!
[13:58] <ubuntujenkins> if you change your resolution with xrandr does it effect all users?   It's 8 a.m. here. :)
[14:00] <humphreybc> nice
[14:00] <ubuntujenkins> night
[14:02] <ubuntujenkins> * has nvidia working for quickshot now to ati and intel this is going to be harder.
[14:34] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie can you post your xrandr output please http://paste.ubuntu.com/
[14:48] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: http://pastebin.com/f47f9fc8e
[14:49] <ubuntujenkins> thanks dutchie
[15:01] <TommyBrunn> ubuntujenkins: You want my xrandr output as well? I've got an intel chip in this computer, and an ATi card in my girlfriend's.
[15:03] <ubuntujenkins> yes please TommyBrunn if you could also do "lshw -C display" that would be brilliant. Is your girlfriends laptop using the open ati driver?
[15:04] <TommyBrunn> xrandr: http://paste.ubuntu.com/381009/
[15:04] <ubuntujenkins> which computer is that?
[15:05] <TommyBrunn> Mine. lshw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/381011/
[15:05] <TommyBrunn> My girlfriend is not using the free driver
[15:05] <TommyBrunn> She's using the proprietary one
[15:05] <TommyBrunn> Do you want the output from that computer too?
[15:07] <TommyBrunn> lshw -C display. Girlfriend's computer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/381012/
[15:07] <ubuntujenkins> please I need a proprietary ati
[15:08] <TommyBrunn> Well, xrandr doesn't work on that computer.
[15:09] <ubuntujenkins> I had a feeling that might be the case thanks
[15:10] <ubuntujenkins> well the program SHOULD work for nvidia, intel and ati using the open driver
[15:43] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn on your computer what does  "xrandr --output HDMI1 --off" give?
[15:44] <TommyBrunn> Why would I want to disable my HDMI out?
[15:47] <ubuntujenkins> Well for xrandr you have to specify which output to change we can't grantee how many screens people have.  We'll see what happens.
[15:47] <TommyBrunn> Nothing at all happened.
[15:48] <ubuntujenkins> good, Idealy there would be an xrandr clone all option which is what I have done for nvidia. thanks
[16:16] <ubuntujenkins> has anyone got dual screens and an xti(Open driver only) or intel card?
[22:19]  * ubuntujenkins can change the screen resolution for quickshot. It could be a fun testing period :P
[23:00] <ubuntujenkins> night all


[21:46] <chippanfat> Hey guys :)
[21:47] <chippanfat> Long time no chat :*
[21:47] <chippanfat> * :(
[21:47] <brobostigon> hey chippanfat :)
[21:48] <chippanfat> How are you? :)
[21:48] <brobostigon> chippanfat: not so hot, and you?
[21:49] <chippanfat> I'm well bro :)
[21:50] <chippanfat> finally got everything running for myself with ubuntu accross all my machines :D
[21:50] <brobostigon> :)
[21:51] <chippanfat> have I missed anything recently? I havent been on irc in a long time :(
[21:53] <brobostigon> not much, no.
[21:54] <chippanfat> awh :)


[18:33] <magcius> bratsche, you there?
[18:35] <bratsche> Yes.
[18:35] <magcius> bratsche, at the GNOME Summit, did you have an SSD?
[18:35] <bratsche> In Boston?
[18:35] <magcius> Yeah.
[18:36] <bratsche> I think so.
[18:36] <magcius> bratsche, okay, thanks. I was wondering why Upstart was so much slower on my laptop even though I got all the rules down pat.
[18:37] <bratsche> I know I got my SSD right around that time.. either right before or right after.  Probably right before.
[18:37] <magcius> How much was it?
[18:37] <magcius> (And to have it retrofitted into that old laptop)
[18:38] <bratsche> It was kind of expensive.. I think like $250 for 80gb.
[18:38] <bratsche> I mean, it's expensive if you
[18:38] <bratsche> if you're looking at it as price per gigabyte.
[18:39] <bratsche> But if you consider it from the perspective of how much faster your system does everything, it's totally worth it.
[18:39] <magcius> That's not too bad.
[18:40] <bratsche> I later even bought one for my desktop computer at home, and it's un-fucking-believably fast.  I can build gtk+ in like 1:05 or something. :)
[18:41] <bratsche> Someone told me it's faster if I flash the firmware with Intel's latest, but I never did.  There were issues with some of their newer firmwares for awhile so I'm afraid to rock the boat. :)


[00:05] <nijaba> m_3: pong
[00:06] <m_3> nijaba: so in the peer relation hook, it doesn't look like the key's being gen'd
[00:06] <nijaba> m_3: humm which one?  the ssh or des?
[00:07] <m_3> des
[00:07]  * nijaba looks
[00:07] <m_3> I'm still testing, but gotta make some changes locally before I get further
[00:08] <m_3> config-changed barfs if you just use default config params (trying to do stuff with ssl certs even though do_https is off)
[00:08] <nijaba> m_3: hmm. the des key should be generated the first time get-des-key gets called
[00:09] <nijaba> m_3: uhhh did not do much test with default params, you are right.
[00:09]  * nijaba juju bootstraps
[00:09] <m_3> wondering about a couple of strictly '-lt's in the peer hook
[00:10] <SpamapS> we should offer Juju boot straps in the ubuntu store
[00:10] <m_3> doesn't look like that'd be called for the master... that the key's being gen'd from a set-des-key calling get-des-key
[00:12] <nijaba> m_3: it is called the first time peer-relation-joinded is invoked, afaics
[00:13] <m_3> nijaba: adding a 'do_https' guard around 'set-ssl-cert' in config-changed to get it deployed
[00:16] <nijaba> m_3: drat, you are right.  I should have guarded this.  do you want me to work on it with default params a bit more and signal you back.  I was a bit too much concentrated on distributing those certs that I forgot the basic test case
[00:17] <m_3> nijaba: the part I'm trying to get to test is the peer-relation-all in the master case.  I'm wondering if:
[00:17] <m_3> if  [[ $LOCAL_UNIT_ID -lt $REMOTE_UNIT_ID ]] && [[ $LOCAL_UNIT_ID -lt $FIRST_UNIT_ID ]] ; then
[00:18] <m_3> sorry for the bad paste, but I'm wondering if this is ever true
[00:18] <m_3> [[ "0" -lt $SOME_UNDEFINED_VARIABLE ]] && echo "yes" || echo "no"
[00:18] <nijaba> m_3: it is, according to my logs.  done tests all the way, removing a master, middle and end nodes
[00:19] <SpamapS> looks like we need a charm helper for peers and leader detection
[00:19] <SpamapS> I did something very similar in ceph
[00:20] <m_3> SpamapS: yes, agree... there're multiple impls already
[00:20] <m_3> nijaba: cool...  I'll bang on it
[00:20]  * m_3 is sticking with my primary skills
[00:21] <nijaba> m_3: the theory is that the unit I am on is never in the the list.  So if my id is less than the remote and the first unit id in the list, then I am elected master
[00:22] <m_3> nijaba: right
[00:23] <SpamapS> relation-list shows all parties, IIRC
[00:23] <nijaba> drat, my chmods in set-ssl-cert are at the wrong place, hence the issue you found when they are not set
[00:23]  * SpamapS honestly doesn't remember, but I think in ceph I had to account for my own ID being in the list
[00:24] <m_3> I'll test it carefully to see what's going on... my guess was that this wasn't executing, but the key was still generated 'lazily' by set-des-key
[00:24] <nijaba> SpamapS: I never ever saw this happen so far.  maybe implementation has changed?
[00:25] <m_3> set-des-key with and empty arg actually calls get-des-key which gens
[00:25] <m_3> s/and/an/
[00:25] <SpamapS>     relation-list > $units_file
[00:25] <SpamapS>     echo $JUJU_UNIT_NAME >> $units_file
[00:25] <SpamapS> nijaba: you are correct .. it is actually only the "other" units
[00:27] <m_3> totally need an i_am_leader helper fn
[00:27] <nijaba> m_3: yes, this was intended.
[00:28] <nijaba> m3: (set-des-key calling get-des-key when called with no param)
[00:28] <SpamapS> m_3: ch_peer_leader
[00:29] <SpamapS> and ch_peer_i_am_leader
[00:29] <nijaba> m_3: that would have helped me A LOT.  had to fight a few hours to understand the logic
[00:31] <SpamapS> nijaba: as did I. We will have to combine the best of those two implementations into a charm helper version.
[00:32] <nijaba> m_3: just pushed a fix for the config-changed set-ssl-cert that seems to work better :)
[00:32] <m_3> that's ok, I reimplimented facter while writing varnish... doh!
[00:33] <m_3> nijaba: I'll pull in a bit... I just commented them out to get to teh peer relations
[00:34] <nijaba> SpamapS: mine is actually already inspired from you ceph charm, but it did not look like we had exactly the same case.  ceph seems to need keys to all other peers, I just need to push the keys of the current master
[00:34] <SpamapS> nijaba: yeah there are two different things needed. One is a generic system for agreeing on who is the leader. The other one is a generic system for transferring a file from the leader to all non-leaders in a peer relation.
[00:35] <nijaba> SpamapS: right.
[00:37] <nijaba> I can try to genericize in ch_helper if you want.  It's quite fresh in my head atm
[00:37] <SpamapS> Go for it!
[00:37] <SpamapS> nijaba: please add tests for it in tests/helpers
[00:37] <nijaba> SpamapS: k
[00:38] <SpamapS> nijaba: I named the file 'helpers.sh' but I think it should have been 'net.sh'. Since what you are doing is really, I think, unrelated to net.sh, you should maybe call it peer.sh
[00:38] <nijaba> SpamapS: remind me where the branch is please
[00:38] <SpamapS> lp:charm-tools
[00:40] <nijaba> m_3: I really did not test without cert sets. /me slaps myself
[00:40] <m_3> nijaba: peer keys seem to be generated just fine... sorry for the noise
[00:41] <m_3> pulling your latest
[00:41]  * m_3 on to the next test scenario
[00:44] <mchenetz> yeah... Stackops server1 is up... Now for another compute node
[00:46] <mchenetz> or openstack
[00:52] <nijaba> SpamapS: I am not seeing any helpers.sh file, only helper/sh/net.sh...  not sure what you meant
[00:53] <nijaba> SpamapS: Can I use bash, or you tink sh is very important?
[00:56] <SpamapS> nijaba: in tests/helpers, there is helpers.sh
[00:56] <SpamapS> nijaba: write the tests first. ;)
[00:56] <nijaba> SpamapS: ah? really? I usually do the opposite...
[00:57] <SpamapS> nijaba: I use posix shell only, if you guys feel strongly that bash is important, we can make them bash specific, but they need to be called .bash, not .sh
[00:57] <SpamapS> nijaba: TDD, write test, then write code.
[00:57] <nijaba> SpamapS: aye sir
[00:57] <SpamapS> nijaba: you're welcome to do it your wya. :)
[00:57] <SpamapS> way even
[00:58] <SpamapS> but typically tests written after the fact are more shallow and have more assumptions in them.
[00:59] <nijaba> SpamapS: good to know.
[01:00] <SpamapS> nijaba: to be fair, I do it "the right way" only about 50% of the time, because usually I'm too busy to write tests first. :)
[01:00] <m_3> the biggest thing that gets me with sh -vs- bash is the ${VARIABLE%%.xml} expasion stuff
[01:01] <m_3> saves having to exec cut
[01:01] <SpamapS> m_3: that stuff is awesome.. and available in all shells.
[01:01] <SpamapS>      ${parameter%%word}    Remove Largest Suffix Pattern.  The word is expanded to produce a pattern.
[01:01] <m_3> and really lots more than just cutting (regexp subs)
[01:01] <SpamapS> from man dash
[01:02] <m_3> was having problems in dash
[01:02] <m_3> in particular, the substitution one... ${VARIABLE//\/*}
[01:02] <nijaba> SpamapS: what were you expecting "ch_peer_leader"? return the leader unit name?
[01:03] <SpamapS> nijaba: echo $leader .. yeah
[01:03] <m_3> even unit sequence id would be great
[01:03] <nijaba> m_3: which do you prefer?
[01:03]  * nijaba put a param :)
[01:03] <m_3> but go with the whole unit name I'd think, it can be trimmed by the user
[01:04] <SpamapS> oh yeah another one that wouldn't be peer related at all is just "ch_my_unit_id" and "ch_unit_id"
[01:04] <m_3> with the ${//} above :)
[01:04] <SpamapS> Even though those are basically just 1 liners
[01:04] <SpamapS> m_3: I tend to go with ## or #
[01:04] <SpamapS> But I can't explain why ;)
[01:04] <m_3> right
[01:04] <m_3> didn't know dash was supposed to impl it
[01:05] <m_3> I'll check and see if a bug is appropo
[01:06] <m_3> you'd think that'd be in the test suite tho
[01:07] <SpamapS> Yeah I believe there's an actual POSIX test shell test suite somewhere out there
[01:20]  * m_3 relocating... coffee shop -> home
[01:22] <nijaba> m_3: drive safely :)
[01:59] <nijaba> SpamapS: how can I simulate a call to relation-list? relation-list is a bad function name in sh
[03:19] <nijaba> SpamapS: charm_tools waiting for a merge :)
[03:19]  * nijaba -> bed
[07:11] <SpamapS> nijaba: alias relation-list=my_relation_list
[08:15] <TheMue> rog: Ready for a worklow question?
[08:17] <rog> TheMue: sure
[08:17] <TheMue> rog: In my past I've worked with svn and hg, so some questions about the workflow here with bzr.
[08:18] <rog> TheMue: go on
[08:18] <TheMue> rog: If I wonna start something new, like we yesterday talked about, I first create a branch with a kind of name describing what I'm doing?
[08:19] <TheMue> rog: E.g. bzr lp:juju/go go-add-state
[08:20] <rog> TheMue: yeah. actually i rarely know what the change will be until i'm nearly ready to submit, so i often just name it something fairly generic to start with
[08:20] <TheMue> rog: ok
[08:20] <rog> s/bzr/bzr branch/ but yes, that's right
[08:20] <TheMue> rog: Oh, eh, yes. ;)
[08:21] <TheMue> rog: So let's asume I've then got something I want to submit, what are the next stepts?
[08:21] <TheMue> steps
[08:21] <rog> in your case, i think that rather than starting with a branch, i might write down how you envisage the API
[08:21] <rog> and put it forward for comments
[08:21] <rog> but anyway
[08:22] <rog> ok if you want to submit something
[08:22] <rog> you'd use gustavo's lbox tool
[08:22] <rog> (have you installed that?)
[08:22] <TheMue> yep
[08:22] <rog> there's been a new version very recently, so you might want to update, BTW
[08:22] <TheMue> done this morning ;)
[08:23] <rog> ok, so you'd commit your changes (bzr commit)
[08:23] <rog> then you'd do lbox propose -cr -for lp:juju/go
[08:24] <rog> and that should get you to edit a file to which you can add the description
[08:24] <rog> of the changes
[08:24] <rog> and it'll put the merge request onto launchpad and codereview
[08:24] <TheMue> ah, ic
[08:25] <rog> then if you need to make some changes in response to the review, you commit and run lbox propose again (with no args this time)
[08:26] <rog> then when you get a LGTM, it's time to do the actual merge
[08:26] <rog> to do that, i make sure that i have a trunk branch that's up to date (e.g. cd my-repo-dir/go-trunk; bzr pull)
[08:27] <rog> then go to that directory and merge in your change
[08:27] <TheMue> ok, got it
[08:27] <rog> bzr merge ../go-add-state
[08:27] <rog> then build and make sure that everything tests ok
[08:28] <rog> then, assuming that's all ok, you can do: bzr push
[08:28] <rog> to actually commit the changes
[08:28] <TheMue> who's giving the LGTM? only gustavo or are always at least two people needed?
[08:29] <TheMue> fine, helps a lot, will write it down in my Getting Started document
[08:29] <rog> TheMue: only one LGTM is needed, but you might want to resolve discussions if there's some other comments
[08:30] <TheMue> so of anyone says it's ok that's enough. got it.
[08:30] <rog> the other thing that caught me out was when i had some branches in a sequence
[08:30] <rog> TheMue: generally you want a LGTM from gustavo - he's the man
[08:31] <TheMue> rog: ok
[08:31] <rog> once you've pushed a branch, if you want to work on the next branch in a sequence of changes, you'll want to merge trunk into that branch before continuing
[08:31] <rog> oh yes, once you've merged, you need to commit the merge
[08:32] <TheMue> ok, sound reasonable
[08:34] <TheMue> thx for your help, will write it down now
[09:09] <mpl> TheMue: jsyk the bzr online help pages + the tips on launchpad are pretty complete already.
[09:09] <mpl> hi all
[09:15] <TheMue> mpl: hi and yep, they are looking good.
[09:16] <TheMue> mpl: justed wanted to know how we doing branching and merging here. had different policies in other companies.
[09:23] <mpl> TheMue: ok. for now I've just followed gustavo's blog post about lbox, it was enough to get started.
[09:48] <koolhead11> hi all
[11:00] <niemeyer> Hello all.. how's that jujuer life coming?
[11:03] <jelmer> it's.. charming
[11:07] <niemeyer> :-)
[11:10] <rog> niemeyer: mornin'
[11:10] <niemeyer> rog: yo
[11:10] <niemeyer> rog: How're things going there?
[11:11] <rog> niemeyer: not bad. distracted by watching that devops video this morning. lots of i have no idea about :-)
[11:11] <rog> s/lots of/lots of stuff
[11:11] <niemeyer> rog: It was pretty interesting indeed
[11:12] <_mup_> Bug #904201 was filed: need supporting code to model machine constraints <juju:In Progress by fwereade> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/904201 >
[11:12] <niemeyer> rog: After about the middle it got a bit boring, with the guy going over the history of a lot of people without much context for how it made any sense to bring these up
[11:12] <TheMue> ..ooOO( Reminder: Look that video, too. )
[11:12] <niemeyer> rog: But otherwise really good
[11:12] <rog> yeah
[11:13] <TheMue> I'll participating a DevOps talk at the OOP too. Looking forward.
[11:16] <TheMue> niemeyer: Getting a better understanding of the existing state code. There's nothing yet like the state.State we yesterday talked about?
[11:18] <niemeyer> TheMue: You can see state.State a _bit_ like the sum of all the StateManager classes
[11:19] <niemeyer> TheMue: We should clean these interfaces up while joining, but that's the direction at least
[11:19] <TheMue> niemeyer: Understand, ok
[12:00] <_mup_> juju/trunk r432 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:00] <_mup_> [merge] robust-zk-connect,sshclient-refactor juju commands will now
[12:00] <_mup_> wait for juju to be running post bootstrap, so using juju commands immediately
[12:00] <_mup_> after bootstrap is viable. [a=jimbaker,hazmat][r=fwereade,jimbaker,hazmat]
[12:00] <_mup_> [f=849071]
[13:00] <rog> niemeyer: https://codereview.appspot.com/5444043/
[13:00] <rog> niemeyer: hopefully i've remembered everything
[13:02] <niemeyer> rog: Thanks!
[13:48] <niemeyer> rog: Before submitting cloudinit, would you mind to do a quick godoc test?
[13:49] <niemeyer> rog: I suspect that SetOutput will format improperly
[13:49] <niemeyer> rog: The documentation, that is
[13:49] <rog> niemeyer: i'll have a look
[13:50] <niemeyer> rog: Also, it'd be good to clarify AddRunCommand with smoser
[13:51] <niemeyer> rog: It's unclear (the "first?", and also which shell script)
[13:51] <rog> gokpgdoc FTW: http://gopkgdoc.appspot.com/pkg/launchpad.net/~rogpeppe/juju/go-cloudinit/cloudinit
[13:51] <niemeyer> rog: Wow :-)
[13:51] <niemeyer> This is awesome
[13:51] <rog> ain't it just?
[13:52] <rog> niemeyer: yup, you're right about SetOutput
[13:52] <niemeyer> Ok, I'll add the comments there
[13:54] <smoser> link?
[13:55] <smoser> ah. runcmd are only executed on first boot of an instance.
[13:55] <rog> smoser: and bootcmd?
[13:56] <smoser> i have to check.
[13:56] <smoser> you're adding them to cloudconfig, right?
[13:57] <smoser> as opposed to a multipart part
[13:57] <rog> smoser: yup
[13:57] <rog> (erm, actually i don't know what you mean by "multipart part" there...)
[13:58] <niemeyer> rog: Sent another round
[13:58] <niemeyer> smoser: Yeah, cloud-config
[13:58] <niemeyer> rog: cloud-init actually supports multiple kinds of input
[13:58] <smoser> rog, cloud-inti can take multipart mime input. and one of the types is "boothook".
[13:59] <smoser> bootcmd runs every boot.
[13:59] <niemeyer> smoser: What's boothook?
[13:59] <smoser> which is actually not what was originally intended.
[13:59] <niemeyer> rog: ^ info will be useful for the review
[13:59] <rog> smoser: ah, so the doc in that cloud-init.txt is misleading
[14:00] <niemeyer> rog: How so?
[14:00] <smoser> it should follow "Cloud Boothook" at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CloudInit
[14:00] <rog> smoser: it implies that the only difference between runcmd and bootcmd is the stage in the boot process that the commands get executed
[14:00] <smoser> but right now, it doesn't even put the INSTANCE_ID in environment.
[14:00] <smoser> i will change it to have that in environment.
[14:01] <smoser> rog, i'll update that documentation also.
[14:02] <smoser> rog, that link there also hopefully describes multipart, but its probably information only for you. i think your approach with cloud-config is fine
[14:02] <rog> smoser: it would be useful if you could take a brief look at the other comments in the docs linked above and let me know if they look right.
[14:05] <rog> smoser: (if you have a moment, of course!)
[14:07] <smoser> SetDisableRoot: disables ssh login to the root account via the ssh authorized key found in metadata
[14:09] <smoser> rog, looks reasonable.
[14:09] <rog> smoser: great, thanks a lot
[14:12] <rog> smoser: when you say "the ssh authorized key found in metadata", do you mean one of the ssh keys specified with ssh_authorized_keys ?
[14:12] <rog> smoser: or is there different key that this refers to?
[14:13] <smoser> different.
[14:14] <rog> smoser: which metadata is the key found in?
[14:15] <rog> smoser: (i'd like to document it if i can)
[14:15] <smoser> only the metadata source's [public-keys are put into both user and root
[14:15] <smoser> ie, in ec2, the ec2 metadata service has a 'public-keys' entry (that is populated when you launch an instance with '--key mykey')
[14:16] <rog> ah, the EC2 metadata!
[14:16] <rog> so i'd be correct if i said this:
[14:16] <rog> // SetDisableRoot sets whether ssh login is disabled to the root account
[14:16] <rog> // via the ssh authorized key found in the instance's EC2 metadata.
[14:16] <rog> // It is true by default.
[14:16] <rog> ?
[14:18] <rog> smoser: ^
[14:18] <smoser> that is good. yeah.
[14:18] <rog> great, thanks
[14:18] <smoser> but it isn't necessarily EC2 metadata specific.
[14:19] <rog> hmm
[14:19] <smoser> as there are multiple DataSources, EC2 is one of them.
[14:19] <smoser> the others are "nocloud" (directory, and there is OVF).
[14:19] <smoser> which can also provide that stuff
[14:20] <rog> smoser: what does SetDisableEC2Metadata do on non-EC2 cloud providers?
[14:20] <rog> smoser: (and is that referring to the same metadata?)
[14:23] <rog> smoser: does this make sense to you:?
[14:23] <rog> // SetDisableRoot sets whether ssh login is disabled to the root account
[14:23] <rog> // via the ssh authorized key associated with the instance.
[14:23] <rog> // It is true by default.
[14:24] <rog> maybe "instance metadata" would be better there
[14:30] <rog> niemeyer: is there a way of running lbox propose that doesn't edit the description?
[14:30] <niemeyer> rog: Not at the moment.. feel free to save the text unchanged, though :-)
[14:30] <niemeyer> rog: I can add a flag if that bothers you
[14:31] <rog> niemeyer: yeah, i do. (well, i add a blank line because of my slightly strange editor set up)
[14:31] <rog> niemeyer: but it would be nice to be able to upload changes only
[14:31] <rog> niemeyer: i usually only edit the description once at the beginning
[14:31] <niemeyer> rog: Note that it doesn't actually upload the description if you don't change it
[14:31] <rog> niemeyer: sure. it's just i'd like to take out one more interactive step.
[14:32] <niemeyer> rog: I personally find it useful since its a nice reminder to update an out-of-date description after the changes made
[14:32] <niemeyer> rog: But I can add a flag if you don't care
[14:32] <rog> niemeyer: i do care - but i always check on codereview anyway
[14:32] <rog> niemeyer: a flag would be great, please.
[14:35] <niemeyer> rog: Will do
[14:37] <niemeyer> rog: I see submit worked for you! :-)
[14:37] <rog> niemeyer: yup, yay!
[14:38] <rog> niemeyer: BTW what things are fixed by the first call to propose? can i, for instance, change the prereq later?
[14:38] <rog> niemeyer: or the bug number, etc
[14:39] <niemeyer> rog: Launchpad doesn't allow changing the prereq, so there's nothing we can do about it
[14:39] <niemeyer> rog: -bug always works
[14:39] <niemeyer> rog: It doesn't _change_ the bug, though
[14:39] <niemeyer> rog: It associates the given bug with the merge proposal (and blueprint, in case it was used)
[14:40] <rog> niemeyer: if you use -prep, is the bug created then? or later?
[14:41] <niemeyer> rog: Works in either case
[14:41] <niemeyer> rog: Sorry
[14:41] <niemeyer> rog: I misinterpreted your question
[14:41] <niemeyer> rog: The bug is created and associated whenever -bug is used
[14:41] <niemeyer> rog: Erm
[14:41] <niemeyer> rog: The bug is associated whenever -bug is used
[14:41] <niemeyer> rog: The bug is created and associated whenever -new-bug is used
[14:41] <rog> niemeyer: -new-bug?
[14:41] <rog> cool
[14:42] <niemeyer> rog: So propose can be called repetitively at will
[14:42] <niemeyer> rog: and associate/create/update stuff as one goes
[14:43] <rog> niemeyer: if you do new-bug twice, will you get two bugs with the same text?
[14:45] <niemeyer> rog: You'll get as many bugs as you call -new-bug with, with whatever text was used
[14:45] <rog> niemeyer: cool, just checking
[14:45] <niemeyer> rog: This is probably a bad behavior, though.. we can do better
[14:46] <rog> niemeyer: presumably lbox propose doesn't remember the new-bug option
[14:46] <niemeyer> rog: We have metadata about it at the server side
[14:46] <niemeyer> rog: Since we associate with the merge proposal
[14:53] <mchenetz> Good morning
[15:06] <SpamapS> mchenetz: ahoy
[15:12] <mchenetz> Spamaps: Back at ya. :-)
[15:12] <niemeyer> I'm heading to lunch
[15:23] <mchenetz> Is there any diagram of the Juju solution? I am starting to integrate Virtualbox into Juju and i wanted to see if there was any good documentation on Juju dev
[15:35] <TheMue> mchenetz: You've already visited https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/?
[15:35] <TheMue> mchenetz: Here you'll find many informations about juju.
[15:36] <mchenetz> TheMue: I was just wondering if there was a general flow diagram or something... But i will look through it
[15:39] <TheMue> mchenetz: And feel free to ask.
[15:40] <mchenetz> TheMue, thanks
[15:41] <SpamapS> mchenetz: at one point I had one that showed the architecture.. but I don't know if it will be all that helpful.
[15:42] <mchenetz> Spamaps: If it's still relevant then i would like to see it... If not, then don't worry about it.
[15:42] <SpamapS> mchenetz: for providers, you should only need to add a file to juju/providers and maybe config stuff in juju/environment/config.py
[15:43] <mchenetz> What about inside the virtualbox image? Any daemeons that i need to inject into the image on create? Or, do i pre-create images?
[15:43] <SpamapS> mchenetz: boot the cloud image, it will get things right
[15:43] <m_3> need to touch some other stuff throughout the code too (like unit/address.py)
[15:44] <mchenetz> These are the things i need to know... I guess i will start and as i hit a roadblock, i will just ask questions. I will look at the local provider python code as an example of what i need to hook into
[15:45] <SpamapS> mchenetz: cloud-images.ubuntu.com
[15:45] <SpamapS> mchenetz: no, the local provider is going to confuse you a lot I think.
[15:45] <SpamapS> mchenetz: because the LXC stuff is "special" .. and isn't done as a provider, its done as a container technology to run inside VMs.
[15:46] <mchenetz> Spamaps: okay... Then i am not sure... I will just do my best
[15:46] <SpamapS> mchenetz: probably easier to copy the dummy provider actually. :)
[15:46] <mchenetz> Spamaps: Okay, i will do that... Thanks
[16:06] <marcoceppi> Could I use juju to deploy on Ubuntu Cloud Live?
[16:08] <fwereade> mchenetz, just a note: I tried to make the docstrings for MachineProviderBase helpful, do take a look at those
[16:09] <mchenetz> fwereade: thanks, will do
[16:20] <jimbaker> hazmat, thanks for merging in the branches to enable juju commands immediately after bootstrap
[16:20] <jimbaker> (enable their effective, error free use)
[16:24] <m_3> whoohoo!
[16:26] <jimbaker> m_3, yes, it's a very nice change. glad that was able to make it in. also i'm feeling better today :)
[16:27] <m_3> jimbaker: good... missed you at the goat yesterday
[16:28] <jimbaker> unfortunately my wife is now sick with whatever i had earlier this week
[16:37] <mpl> jimbaker: that's true love and dedication ;)
[16:38] <jimbaker> mpl, indeed ;)
[16:43] <drt24> juju eureka isn't in the ppa yet?
[16:47] <robbiew> drt24: I think it is...but SpamapS can probably answer best
[16:47] <robbiew> oneiric or precise?
[16:47] <robbiew> (ppa)
[16:47] <drt24> both
[16:48] <drt24> or I could be reading it wrong.
[16:55] <drt24> I suspect that I am wrong and was confused by the ppa not being linked from the juju project page but only form the juju hackers page.
[16:56] <jcastro> juju logo sideways! http://www.stumbleupon.com/
[17:06] <m_3> yeah, I've seen a couple of pipes logos out there
[17:11] <hazmat> jimbaker, bcsaller, fwereade standup?
[17:11] <jimbaker> hazmat, sure
[17:11] <fwereade> hazmat, sounds good
[17:30] <TheMue> Aargh, layer 8 error detected. Using the right command to do something is helpful. *sigh*
[17:35] <TheMue> rog: Why do we have an own log package instead using the Go log package?
[17:36] <rog> TheMue: i think it's so that we have a central place to set up logging (it's not possible to set up the normal log package so it prints to anything other than stderr, i think
[17:36] <rog> )
[17:36] <TheMue> rog: It can, log.SetOutput(w io.Writer)
[17:37] <rog> TheMue: also, we want to layer it on top of gocheck, but you can only layer log onto io.Writer
[17:37] <rog> TheMue: oh yes
[17:37] <TheMue> rog: The package is not yet optimal but quite flexible.
[17:37] <rog> TheMue: but the latter point remains
[17:38] <TheMue> rog: How about letting gocheck implement the Writer interface?
[17:38] <rog> TheMue: the writer interface is not really record-oriented
[17:39] <TheMue> rog: The Go log is standard and used by other packages too. How do we handle logging of used package that we don't develop on our own?
[17:40] <TheMue> rog: And an own writer impl could do intelligent stream parsing too.
[17:41] <rog> TheMue: i had this discussion with niemeyer before, and i lost. you'll have to convince him, not me.
[17:41] <TheMue> Maybe we should talk about it in Bud.
[17:43] <niemeyer> TheMue: Note that we're not replacing the log package in any way
[17:43] <TheMue> rog: Another topic. Currently we use Makefiles. You once talked about the migration to use goinstall. How is the status here?
[17:43] <niemeyer> TheMue: We're building on it
[17:43] <niemeyer> TheMue: rog had the same feeling originally, but it isn't the case
[17:43] <rog> TheMue: we use both Makefiles and goinstall
[17:43] <TheMue> niemeyer: OK, we will do so. Currently it's only fmt based.
[17:44] <rog> TheMue: currently you can't avoid Makefiles if you want to use gotest
[17:44] <niemeyer> TheMue: and I can certainly understand why both of you had that feeling.. the entry point of logging is a different function, and we now have a package named "log"
[17:44] <niemeyer> TheMue: Not really.. we don't format the actual log
[17:44] <m_3> marcoceppi: ping
[17:44] <marcoceppi> m_3: pong
[17:44] <niemeyer> TheMue: What we do is trivial fmt.Sprintf
[17:44] <TheMue> rog: Yep, I hope this will be fixed soon, already before Go1.
[17:44] <niemeyer> TheMue, rog: => #juju-dev please
[17:45] <rog> i was just going to suggest that
[17:45] <m_3> marcoceppi: can you please change ownership of lp:charm/roundcube to ~charmers?
[17:45] <marcoceppi> m_3: yes
[17:45] <marcoceppi> Did I progumate wrongly?
[17:46] <m_3> marcoceppi: dunno... needs to end up owned by charmers... perhaps it's a bug in charm promulgate
[17:46] <m_3> marcoceppi: it happens to me too.. have to go manually change ownership to charmers afterwards
[17:46] <jcastro> marcoceppi: it's god punishing us for creating a command called "promulgate"
[17:46] <m_3> rofl
[17:46] <marcoceppi> m_3: haha, changed :)
[17:46] <jcastro> awesome, so roundcube is done?
[17:47] <jcastro> and phpmyadmin was mostly done right?
[17:47] <m_3> marcoceppi: gracias
[17:47] <marcoceppi> jcastro: Yeah, I need to test the apt->upstream->apt->upstream to make sure there isn't anything ugly lurking
[17:48] <marcoceppi> Otherwise it was ready for review. So, if I get time today *crosses fingers*
[17:48] <jcastro> marcoceppi: nitpick on using "aptitude" in your function for installing from the archive btw.
[17:48] <jcastro> perhaps "repository" or something would make more sense? </bikeshed>
[17:48] <marcoceppi> Ah, I was like NO WAY I USE APT I SWEAR
[17:48] <marcoceppi> repository would be better <3
[17:52] <m_3> jcastro: roundcube is in... still have a couple of test scenarios, but they'll just be bugs against trunk if those fail
[17:52]  * jcastro nods and will just give those a couple of days
[18:45] <nijaba> SpamapS: marcoceppi: could some of you have a look at lp:~nijaba/charm-tools/peer-scp and tell me how I can write a test function for it? alias scp and build a state test function?
[18:46]  * marcoceppi recommends rsync <3
[18:46] <nijaba> marcoceppi: already done with scp, easy to allow for the option
[19:27] <SpamapS> nijaba: or start your own sshd on a random port and actually do the scp. ;)
[19:28] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: re ubuntu cloud live, yes that should work. I've been meaning to try juju against it for a while.
[22:08] <SpamapS> Hmm, looks like there's a test that looks for a very specific error message which sometimes shows up differently...
[22:09] <SpamapS> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/87459690/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.juju_0.5%2Bbzr432-1juju2~oneiric1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[22:11]  * hazmat peeks
[22:12] <hazmat> hmm
[22:12] <SpamapS> hazmat: when I run that test locally on precise it passes
[22:12] <SpamapS> hazmat: so I'm wondering if its just something weird running in the buildd chroot
[22:14] <hazmat> SpamapS, there's no external interaction, the error is being setup by the test via a mock
[22:14] <SpamapS> hazmat: so is this a case where something else is causing said error?
[22:15] <hazmat> SpamapS, no.. its the error reporting not matching the expected error text
[22:15] <hazmat> SpamapS, the error is coming back with some additional traceback information that the test doesn't like
[22:16] <hazmat> SpamapS, splitting the expected strings and asserting both are in the output would suffice to resolve and maintain the expectation
[22:16]  * hazmat digs up a trivial patch
[22:17] <hazmat> it is odd that the error representation would change for buildd but not for local usage
[22:18] <hazmat> here's the trivial patch http://paste.ubuntu.com/770590/
[22:19] <SpamapS> hazmat: I'm trying the test in a local sbuild chroot to see if it is different
[22:24] <SpamapS> hazmat: fails in a clean chroot, so some python module is changing things on our local machines
[22:25] <SpamapS> or lxc maybe?
[22:25] <hazmat> SpamapS, interesting.. i'd suspect a change to the logging module or twisted
[22:25] <SpamapS>     test_watch_new_service_unit ... No handlers could be found for logger "juju.agents.machine"
[22:25] <SpamapS> I see that, but that is much earlier
[22:26] <hazmat> SpamapS, that's not particular indicative of anything in this context, except a test didn't care about log output, and didn't setup a default logger
[22:26] <hazmat> ie. its harmless
[22:26] <SpamapS> hazmat: in oneiric, none of the modules have changed...
[22:27] <SpamapS> well shoot, WTF has been failing since 431
[22:28] <hazmat> hmm
[22:28] <hazmat> oh..
[22:28] <hazmat> ah
[22:28] <hazmat> and functional tests since 429
[22:29] <SpamapS> hazmat: your trivial in 431 changed this text
[22:29] <hazmat> SpamapS, yup
[22:29] <hazmat> i'll commit the trivial fix then
[22:29] <SpamapS> yeah
[22:29] <SpamapS> it looks good to me, +1
[22:29] <hazmat> niemeyer, wtf functional tests are failing with.. Bootstrap aborted because file storage is not writable: Error Message: You have attempted to create more buckets than allowed
[22:30] <hazmat> for the last few revs
[22:30] <SpamapS> hazmat: wait, can you push it to a branch and I'll try it in a chroot?
[22:30] <hazmat> SpamapS, sure
[22:30]  * SpamapS realizes its already been pastebinned..
[22:30] <SpamapS> hazmat: if you haven't pushed it already, belay that.. I can do it here
[22:31] <hazmat> SpamapS, un momento new patch coming
[22:31] <hazmat> SpamapS, http://paste.ubuntu.com/770604/
[22:32] <SpamapS> yeah the 1st one didn't work ;)
[22:33] <SpamapS> hazmat: confirmed, that fixes it
[22:34] <SpamapS> hazmat: if you want to test in a chroot (highly recommended) its pretty easy.. install ubuntu-dev-tools, run 'mk-sbuild oneiric', and then 'schroot -c oneiric-amd64 -u root' to get a clean oneiric chroot to play in (that gets cleaned up on exit)
[22:34] <SpamapS> apt-get build-dep juju will pull in all the build deps
[22:35] <SpamapS> .. obviously ;)
[22:36] <hazmat> SpamapS, why not just lxc?
[22:36] <hazmat> SpamapS, thanks i'll try that out
[22:37] <SpamapS> hazmat: because this is nearly identical to the buildd
[22:38] <nijaba> SpamapS: ok, will try, thanks
[22:38] <nijaba> marcoceppi: first version with rsync as an option: lp:~nijaba/charm-tools/peer-scp/
[22:39] <nijaba> SpamapS: (context: start my own scp)
[22:39] <nijaba> sshd even
[22:41] <_mup_> juju/trunk r433 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:41] <_mup_> [trivial] fix provider unit test regression from r431, from overly exact error output check [r=clint-fewbar]
[22:42] <niemeyer> hazmat: I noticed that, and cleared them today
[22:43] <niemeyer> I'm heading out for the day.. cheers everybody!
[22:43] <hazmat> niemeyer, cheers
[22:43]  * hazmat debates heading out to a nodejs meetup
[22:51]  * SpamapS dist-upgrades his precise box with fingers firmly crossed
[23:20] <hazmat> smoser, do you  know if cloud-init is installed on the rackspace cloud instances by default
[23:23] <hazmat> apparently not
[23:37] <_mup_> juju/ssh-known_hosts r439 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:37] <_mup_> Inject keys as part of cloud-init for ZK instances
[23:43] <_mup_> juju/ssh-known_hosts r440 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:43] <_mup_> Merged trunk & resolved conflicts


[23:12] <Volkodav> how come there is no creptkeeper in repos? Has been there since 11.04
[23:12] <Volkodav> cryptkeeper*
[23:17] <k1l_> is it deprecated? was it removed from debian?
[23:18] <valorie> !info cryptkeeper
[23:18] <flocculant> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=853725
[23:25] <Volkodav> And I have full folder of files - so what now? I need to install it somehow to at least copy the files out of it
[23:26] <Volkodav> I should look for a deb file somewhere
[23:27] <k1l_> or use the terminal commands?
[23:27] <k1l_> or gnome-encfs-manager?
[23:30] <Volkodav> gnome-encfs-manager will it see the folder though?
[23:31] <Volkodav> I found the yakkety deb file - should work I guess
[23:49] <Volkodav> k1l_: gnome-encfs-manager is not in repos neither - is in ppa?
[23:50] <k1l_> https://launchpad.net/~gencfsm
[23:51] <k1l_> i dont use that at all. i just saw it mentioned for "the lazy ones who cant run the terminal commands"
[23:54] <Volkodav> not necessarily can't sometimes not willing to...


[01:50] <thumper> fmarier: hahaha
[01:50] <thumper> fmarier: that is a very weird bug
[01:54] <fmarier> thumper: yeah, i learned a lot about video drivers in recent kernels before i figured out it was a mute button problem
[01:54] <thumper> I notice that FB is down almost 10% today
[01:55] <ajmitch> such a shame
[19:36] <chilts> morning
[20:05] <ajmitch> morning
[20:20] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:50] <hads> morning
[20:50] <ojwb> morning
[21:00] <robert_ancell> thumper, did you get a duolingo invite in the end?  I have some more now people signed up
[21:01] <thumper> robert_ancell: no, not yet
[21:01] <thumper> oh... and
[21:01] <robert_ancell> thumper, ok, you should have one now
[21:01] <thumper> morning
[21:02] <thumper> robert_ancell: thanks
[21:02] <thumper> robert_ancell: you've not moved back to NZ have you?
[21:02] <thumper> robert_ancell: or just looking for more kiwis to hang with?
[21:02] <robert_ancell> yup, been back for about a month now
[21:02] <thumper> oh?
[21:02] <thumper> robert_ancell: where?
[21:02] <robert_ancell> Auckland (Onehunga)
[21:02]  * ajmitch is glad to see some more kiwis come back
[21:04] <ajmitch> at this rate we may actually have to do something as a loco apart from irc
[21:05] <robert_ancell> is anyone else in Auckland?
[21:05] <ajmitch> seems to be mostly wellington or dunedin in here
[21:26] <thumper> robert_ancell: no, not that I know of
[21:26] <thumper> robert_ancell: however you do bring the number in NZ up to 8 :)
[21:27] <robert_ancell> https://directory.canonical.com/list/country/ says 7, who's missing?
[21:27] <thumper> you
[21:28] <robert_ancell> whoops
[21:28] <thumper> :)
[22:20] <ojwb> geonet are using OSM now
[22:20] <ojwb> e.g. http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3713946g-shaking.html
[22:29] <chilts> that's pretty cool ... it'd be interesting to see why they made that decision
[22:44] <ibeardslee> cheaper?
[23:09] <kcj> Morning.
[23:21] <hads> It is cool that they are using OSM. WIth the number of page impressions they get I imagine the updated pricing for Google Maps would have cost a fortune.
[23:29] <Atamira> morning
[23:56] <mwhudson> morning
[23:56] <thumper> just
[23:56] <thumper> :)
[23:57] <mwhudson> yep
[23:57] <mwhudson> i'm working on hong kong time anyway
[23:57] <ajmitch> must mean it's time to brave the weather & get lunch


[07:59] <tsdgeos> cimi: ping
[11:25] <tsdgeos> seb128: previous == preview? in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1478010 ?
[11:42] <seb128> tsdgeos, yes, sorry
[11:42] <tsdgeos> k tx
[11:43] <seb128> tsdgeos, I fixed the title/description
[11:58] <pstolowski> kgunn, hello! do you know if MacSlow will be available today, or is he on vacation?
[12:04] <kgunn> pstolowski: he is on vacation actually
[12:05] <pstolowski> kgunn, ack, thanks
[13:20] <tsdgeos> dandrader|afk: https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/unity8/app-state-handling/+merge/258653
[13:40] <dandrader> damn it