[02:21] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Good news 2.0.5 works. Bad news: pulse bridge autoconnections don't work as they should.
[04:38] <OvenWerks> bug report? What was expected - what actually happened. debug set to extra logfile of startup.
[04:41] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^ also it may be reasonable to remove the old config file (~/.config/autojack/autojackrc
[04:42] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's fair. I need to do more testing before I submit a bug report.
[04:42] <Eickmeyer> Basically, it's not auto-connecting the pulse bridge to the output when it's set to do so.
[04:45] <OvenWerks> we had it setup to use 1, 3, 5 etc for stereo pairs 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 etc. now we need full portnames.
[04:45] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, it wasn't working with just full portnames either. But, like I said, I might have to do more testing.
[04:46] <OvenWerks> So resetting the portnames and apply _should_ fix that
[04:47] <OvenWerks> setting loggin level to debug of extra should drop a whiole lot more into the log file: ~/.log/autojack.log
[04:47] <OvenWerks> s/loggin/logging/
[04:50] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, I'll give it a shot soon. Working on some other stuff.
[04:50]  * OvenWerks to
[04:50] <OvenWerks> too even
 Eickmeyer:  FTBFS in several packages handled in proposed
 looks like all the stuff i sponsored
 I am suffering GI problems and potential appendicitis right now so am not able to dig deeper


[06:58] <qwebirc97659> in way over my head here...  trying to get IrDA (or any other type of IR) working on mythbuntu 11.04 and a older toshiba laptop (satellite P105, driver page on toshiba website says this is a CIR SMSC IR port)...  I've tried the normal forum hopping and google'ing but most of the info I have found appears to be out of date or not working for me
[07:07] <qwebirc97659> i've posted what i think is relevant dmesg log entries and ternimal outputs here: pastebin.com/PWFeQd5E
[07:07] <Zinn> [pastebin.com] relevant log entries... DMESG: [ 15.757803] irda_init() [ 15.757819] NET: - Pastebin.com
[07:08] <dekarl> qwebirc97659: I've been looking at that this week, too. Seems like Irda and CIR (remote control) stuff have nothing to do with eachother...
[07:09] <qwebirc97659> yeah, i've gathered there are two distinct peices of this puzzle but i'm still working on getting linux to even recognize the low level hardware interface
[07:13] <qwebirc97659> I'm sure my laptop has IRDA capability but there isn't any BIOS options for the IR port.  I have found the chart on this page that give me some information on what values to use while configuring the thing but I just can't get it rolling....  http://irda.sourceforge.net/smcinit/#description
[07:13] <Zinn> [irda.sourceforge.net] Linux-IrDA Project - SMCINIT
[08:47] <dekarl> just so it doesn't get lost (got no wiki account at hand) http://www.mythbuntu.org/wiki/network-boot-mythbuntu-diskless needs this hint http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9244438&postcount=2 to get the NVIDIA driver installed
[08:47] <Zinn> [www.mythbuntu.org] Howto: Network boot. Mythbuntu-Diskless | Mythbuntu
[12:21] <rileyp> does irsend work with a mceusb in natty
[14:18] <Shred00> i don't suppose anyone is maintaining period (daily/nightly, weekly, per commit, etc.) packages for master are they?
[14:49] <Shred00> and alternatively, is anyone maintaining a /debian diff for master to build "mythbuntu" packages?
[14:52] <Shred00> i suppose perhaps: https://code.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythtv/mythtv-master
[14:52] <Zinn> [code.launchpad.net] mythtv-master : Code : MythTV
[14:53] <Shred00> assuming i can figure out how to use bzr.  what's so bad about git that we need yet another SCM?
[14:53] <Shred00> anyway, am i supposed to check out lp:~mythbuntu/mythtv/mythtv-master into a mythtv master git tree?
[14:54] <Shred00> ahhh.  to answer my first question though... https://launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/+archive/0.25
[14:54] <Zinn> [launchpad.net] 0.25 : âMythbuntu Developersâ team
[15:00] <Shred00> heh.  Zinn must be a bot.
[15:00] <Zinn> Hi Shred00, something I can help you with today?  I am a bot, use !help to see what I can do.
[15:00] <Shred00> boy can i spot them!  :-D
[15:01] <Shred00> Zinn: can you make mythtv stable and stop deadlocking on the backend?  :-)
[15:01] <Zinn> Hi Shred00, something I can help you with today?  I am a bot, use !help to see what I can do.
[16:33] <tgm4883> Shred00, we were using bzr before they were using git
[20:58] <Shred00> tgm4883: yeah, i figured it might be something like that.  git just seems so ubiquitous now.


[05:48] <pitti> Good morning
[06:21] <lifeless> micahg: btw ff seems to work ok for me
[06:24] <micahg> lifeless: cool, thanks :)
[06:36] <dpolehn> I am kind of a noob.  So I have what is probably a noobish question.  I have bunch of changes after running pdebuild on a package should I shelve these changes before proposing a merge?
[06:43] <micahg> dpolehn: you shouldn't be running pdebuild in the same dir as the bzr checkout
[06:44] <dpolehn> oh alright how should I be running it then?
[06:45] <micahg> dpolehn: use bzr-builddeb
[06:45] <dpolehn> I had a hard time finding good usage documentation
[06:45] <dpolehn> ok I am testing to see if it will build on oneiric
[06:45] <dpolehn> still use bzr-builddeb?
[06:46] <micahg> dpolehn: yeah, you can pass it an argument to use whatever build env you want
[06:46] <dpolehn> great thank you
[06:48] <micahg> dpolehn: you're welcome
[07:49] <dholbach> good morning
[08:11] <didrocks> good morning
[09:33] <rokr1> hello all
[09:33] <rokr1> I cannot bridge iwl3945 module
[09:34] <rokr1> Which I can do in debian
[09:34] <rokr1> any solution
[09:34] <rokr1> ?
[09:34] <rokr1> anyone ?
[09:34] <rokr1> here ?
[09:34] <persia> Have you tried #ubuntu?  That's a better support channel.  If you're trying precisely the same steps in Debian and Ubuntu and it's not working, you might want to file a bug.
[09:35] <rokr1> Yes I tried
[09:35] <rokr1> but seems like its a bug in ubuntu
[09:37] <rokr1> since its release
[10:18] <lifeless> cjwatson: if you're around, we have a small q in launchpad about Contents.gz and non-utf8 paths
[10:18] <lifeless> cjwatson: seeking an off-the-cuff-opinion about LP dropping such paths from Contents[.gz] at some future date (probably a few months out)
[10:18] <StevenK> lifeless: I've already asked
[10:19] <lifeless> StevenK: ah!
[10:19] <lifeless> StevenK: i didn't see it
[10:19] <StevenK> Not in this channel :-)
[10:22] <lifeless> StevenK: and did you get an indicative response?
[10:23] <StevenK> Nope
[10:35] <cjwatson> lifeless: my answer was "I would not be excessively sad if you felt like dropping non-UTF-8 names from Contents, although it would be better to deal with non-UTF-8 data"
[10:45] <lool> cjwatson: Hmm I have a weirdo with ssh/sshd; I can ssh locally quickly, but if I pass -X or -XY then it takes a long time before it completes login; it's stuck at "debug2: x11_get_proto: /usr/bin/xauth  list :0.0 2>/dev/null", after it unstucks it says "Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding."
[10:46] <lool> cjwatson: oddly, if I 'ssh host "/usr/bin/xauth  list :0.0"' this completes immediately
[10:46] <lool> now it gets uglier: if I open a regular ssh (no -X/-XY) in another term while the first one is trying to connect, the other ssh gets stuck too
[10:47] <lool> it seems sshd is stuck on the server side in some long-running call; maybe a reverse DNS check of some form?
[10:48] <cjwatson> I don't know, sorry - you'd want to run with -vvv, and possibly run a temporary server on a different port with -ddd in order to see what it's doing
[10:48] <geser> lool: do you use connection-sharing for the 2nd ssh?
[10:48] <lool> geser: no
[10:48] <lool> cjwatson: I ran the client with -v, but not the server; ok, will try running a debug server, thanks
[10:48] <lool> (s/-v/-vvv/)
[10:49] <cjwatson> if you're very lucky there's already something useful in server:/var/log/auth.log, but probably not
[10:49] <lool> Didn't find anything relevantin the logs  :-/
[10:49] <lool> it's just a stream of sessin opened, disconnect, session closed
[10:50] <lool> but dumping network traffic, I see no additional DNS request over a regular SSH
[10:50] <lool> (that is, same requests for ssh -XY/-X or for plain ssh)
[10:53] <lool> cjwatson: with a sshd -ddd, the last line before the hang is "debug1: server_input_global_request: rtype<EMAIL_ADDRESS>want_reply 0" and the first one after the hang is "debug1: server_input_channel_req: channel 0 request x11-req reply 0", which confirms it's X related, albeit I don't understand how
[10:53] <lool> -4 doesn't change anything
[10:55] <lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/629742/
[10:55] <cjwatson> perhaps gethostname() is slow
[10:56] <cjwatson> I'd be inclined to strace the server
[10:57] <cjwatson> actually, your pause is *before* processing x11-req, why would that be ...
[10:57] <lool> strace might have private key, right?
[10:58] <cjwatson> yes
[10:58] <lool> 9563  11:56:55 select(8, [3 7], [], NULL, NULL) = 1 (in [3])
[10:58] <lool> 9563  11:57:15 rt_sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK, [CHLD], [], 8) = 0
[10:58] <lool> Now what's fd 8
[10:58] <cjwatson> I doubt that approach is useful
[10:59] <lool> wtmp
[10:59] <cjwatson> oh, sorry, misread
[10:59] <cjwatson> well, that's just "waiting for responses from anything at all for 20 seconds"
[11:00] <cjwatson> it sounds to me as though it's the client pausing, not the server
[11:00] <apw> lool, thats not fd8, its any of the first 8 fds, though 3 and 7 i think are marked as intersting .. 3 was the one which did something
[11:01] <lool> apw: yes sorry
[11:02] <lool> I can see the PAM session started already
[11:02] <cjwatson> do you have -vvv output where you've noted the position of the pause?
[11:03] <cjwatson> (client)
[11:03] <lool> yep, that was the first message when I pinged you; I'll get a full log
[11:04] <cjwatson> 'ssh host "/usr/bin/xauth  list :0.0"' is the result of confusion
[11:04] <cjwatson> ssh is trying to get xauth data on the client side, not the server side
[11:04] <apw> lool that shouldn't be remote, but local xorg list
[11:04] <apw> heh what cjwatson said
[11:04] <cjwatson> snap
[11:05]  * apw bets the xauth lock is 'lost'
[11:05] <lool> oh right
[11:05] <lool> indeed, this command is hanging here
[11:05] <lool> gah, sorry for the confusion folks!
[11:36] <lool> I filed LP #799674 on the xauth issue mentioned earlier
[13:44] <davmor2> Hey guys quick query I'm running a vm of oneiric and on my netbook too.  I noticed in the vm that you get a warning about not being able to write to /run/udev I thought it was just a vm thing however it is also displayed on the netbook is this an issue,  also I get a string of modem types when shutting down instead of a splash screen.
[13:48] <cjwatson> davmor2: it's known but there's no particular need to worry about it for the momenet
[13:48] <davmor2> cjwatson: okay cool just thought I'd check :)
[14:26] <smoser> anyone core-dev or motu willing/able to sponsor https://code.launchpad.net/~dpolehn-gmail/ubuntu/oneiric/pygame/fix-755980/+merge/65114 ?
[14:37] <mdeslaur> smoser: sure, I'll upload it, hold on a sec
[14:40] <RoozbehOnline> mvo: hi dude :)
[14:40] <RoozbehOnline> are you there ?
[14:45] <mvo> hey RoozbehOnline, I'm good, thanks
[14:46] <RoozbehOnline> mvo: daniel holbach intoduce you to me :)
[14:46] <RoozbehOnline> mvo: you are developer of ubuntu software center yes ?
[14:46] <RoozbehOnline> introduce *
[14:47] <mvo> RoozbehOnline: yes, one of the developers indeed
[14:47] <RoozbehOnline> :)
[14:47] <RoozbehOnline> good
[14:47] <RoozbehOnline> i have an idea and im working on since last night
[14:48] <mvo> what is this idea about :) ?
[14:48] <RoozbehOnline> mvo: my idea (project) is an online ubuntu app center
[14:49] <RoozbehOnline> with web2.0 features
[14:50] <mvo> RoozbehOnline: nice! there is some django code with some basic work on this already, let me try to find the branch
[14:50] <RoozbehOnline> :)
[14:50] <mvo> RoozbehOnline: sounds like you and that django project should join forces!
[14:50] <RoozbehOnline> is it active ?
[14:51] <mvo> yes
[14:52] <RoozbehOnline> mvo: http://roozbehonline.net/filez/app-get-soon.jpg
[14:52] <RoozbehOnline> mvo: can you link me ?
[14:53] <mvo> RoozbehOnline: check https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-webcatalog it has a bunch of django code already, I haven't checked yet how complete it is at this point though
[14:54] <RoozbehOnline> mvo: the problem is the base of django is python
[14:54] <mvo> RoozbehOnline: I'm not really part of that effort, but the ISD people behind it will certainly welcome your input/code/ideas
[14:54] <RoozbehOnline> mvo: im working with php
[14:54] <mvo> RoozbehOnline: oh, i see
[14:56] <RoozbehOnline> mvo: if i do this from scratch will you support this project ?
[14:56] <mdeslaur> smoser: the fix for pygame is wrong
[14:56] <smoser> mdeslaur, oh?
[14:56] <pitti> tseliot: ah, another missing module for py3ification of jockey is python3-curl
[14:56] <smoser> it does fix the ftbfs
[14:57] <mdeslaur> smoser: the patch fixes the prompt, but the actual fix is to get the dependencies right so the prompt doesn't get asked
[14:57] <mdeslaur> smoser: Warning, some of the pygame dependencies were not found. Pygame can still
[14:57] <mdeslaur> compile and install, but games that depend on those missing dependencies
[14:57] <mdeslaur> will not run. Would you like to continue the configuration? [Y/n]
[14:57] <tseliot> pitti: oh, so I guess it's something we'll have to postpone to Oneiric+1?
[14:57] <smoser> well, thank you for not trusting me, mdeslaur
[14:57]  * smoser embarrased to not have looked deeper.
[14:58] <mdeslaur> smoser: lol, I just looked as the fix didn't work when I build it locally with sbuild
[14:58] <mdeslaur> smoser: it stops until I hit enter
[14:58] <pitti> tseliot: not necessarily; perhaps python3 now has a non-broken proxy handling for https
[14:58] <pitti> tseliot: I just stumbled over it when trying to port it some more
[14:58] <smoser> mdeslaur, it *did* work for me locally with sbuild
[14:58] <mdeslaur> smoser: huh, curious
[14:59] <mdeslaur> smoser: I'm using a wrapper and stuff around sbuild, maybe I have a terminal set or something
[14:59] <tseliot> pitti: ah, good. BTW I'm going to have some fixes for Jockey for multi-arch. We can discuss this in PM
[14:59] <mdeslaur> smoser: anyway, sorry for giving you the impression I don't trust you :)
[15:00] <smoser> my sbuild is running on natty, with my sbuild of 0.62.2-1ubuntu1~natty1 (backport of natty for a dependencies resolution fix).
[15:00] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/629826/
[15:01] <mdeslaur> smoser: ok, maybe it's something on my end. Want me to upload it anyway?
[15:02] <smoser> well, i do see that error in my build logwhic his strange
[15:04] <smoser> ah, the one in my log though happens , then patches are a pplied, and it does not happen.
[15:06] <smoser> mdeslaur, i think you're correct though, that something else is amuck.
[15:06] <mdeslaur> smoser: your call, just let me know if you want me to upload it as-is.
[15:33] <pitti> tseliot: hm, no hurry with jockey -- it also needs python3-gobject (which should be doable) and python3-dbus (which won't happen most probably)
[15:33] <pitti> tseliot: and gdbus servers from python are still buggy :(
[15:33] <tseliot> pitti: right, you mentioned the lack of -dbus last time
[15:33] <tseliot> too bad
[15:48] <mvo> RoozbehOnline: ups, missed your last line. it depends on what you mean with support, but I will welcome it and I don't have anything against it. I would prefer having a single project though :/
[15:49] <MoonTiger> hey guys :)
[15:49] <MoonTiger> has the glibconfig.h problem been solved yet?
[15:53] <stat> This is where you come to ask about policies and decisions that have been made for Ubuntu, correct?
[15:55] <smoser> i'm guessing this is multi arch related..
[15:55] <smoser> but is this right: http://paste.ubuntu.com/629852/
[15:55] <smoser> libpng only puts stuff in /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpng12.so.0
[15:55] <cjwatson> smoser: looks right to me
[15:55] <cjwatson> the linker knows to look there
[15:56] <smoser> cjwatson, so.. i'm loking at pygame build, it is just asusming that it can look in /usr/lib for dependency libraries
[15:56] <smoser> what would you recommend for that simplistic view of the world ?
[15:56] <cjwatson> it's not uncommon for stupid build systems to make incorrect assumptions about where libraries live
[15:56] <cjwatson> they should not make incorrect assumptions
[15:57] <smoser> :) all developers should be as knowledgeable as you, cjwatson, i dont think you'll find argument with that.
[15:57] <cjwatson> the correct way to link against libpng is to ask pkg-config
[15:58] <cjwatson> stat: that depends ...
[15:58] <stat> I'm curious about a choise to disable the "big memory" flag fopr the PAE kernel.
[15:58] <stat> It seems that the "big memory" flag is disabled by default now. That means you only get a maximum of 3.5GB. If you only get an extra 512MB, why even bother with PAE?
[15:59] <cjwatson> for the kernel, I'd ask in #ubuntu-kernel instead
[15:59] <stat> Ah, ok. Thanks.
[16:01] <smoser> cjwatson, ok. so i'll try to move that to use pkg-config. thank you.
[16:05] <janimo> rsalveti, do you know why clutter needed to have the same glx soname for the EGL backend? Hardcoded in some packages using Clutter?
[16:08] <rsalveti> janimo: problem is the way clutter is handling the backends
[16:08] <rsalveti> currently you still don't have one common so that then can load the backend one, and have different functionalities selected at run time
[16:08] <cjwatson> smoser: I think you'd want to do something a bit like DependencyProg in config_unix.py, although the pkg-config calling convention is a bit different (--modversion instead of --version, and ask for modversion separately from cflags/libs)
[16:08] <rsalveti> like support for gl and gles
[16:08] <smoser> cjwatson, yeah, thats what i was doing.
[16:08] <rsalveti> janimo: they were still producing different libraries for those different backends
[16:09] <cjwatson> smoser: *nod*
[16:09] <rsalveti> janimo: even if the gles abi was almost the same one as the gl so
[16:09] <janimo> rsalveti, and what woudl be lost if we had an egl.so?
[16:10] <rsalveti> janimo: we would need to build the clutter applications against it if we want gles support
[16:10] <rsalveti> there was a bug upstream about this, let me try to find
[16:10] <janimo> rsalveti, if an app (gnome shell) wants to use clutter, should it know which backend it uses? Now it looks for glx which can be fixed by renaming our .pc file as well from egl to glx
[16:10] <janimo> but then als includes things from clutter/glx
[16:11] <rsalveti> janimo: it shouldn't, but currently it's related directly with the backend, as the glx one is the default provider for clutter
[16:13] <janimo> rsalveti, bug 791310 is where I hit the issue. The configure step can be fixed but I am not sure it won't be even more confusing later when GS thinks it uses the GLX backend, but does not have inlcude paths
[16:13] <rsalveti> JanC: http://bugzilla.clutter-project.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2276
[16:13] <rsalveti> JanC: sorry
[16:13] <rsalveti> janimo: the upstream bug
[16:14] <janimo> rsalveti, thanks, no progess since last time apparently
[16:14] <rsalveti> nops
[16:16] <rsalveti> janimo: so yes, if we want to maintain the same so with both gl and gles support (based on the arch), then we should make it consistent regarding so name, include paths and so on
[16:16] <rsalveti> otherwise we'll end up having gl support by default on all archs
[16:16] <rsalveti> and if you want to use gles you'll install the clutter es package and rebuild your application against it
[16:17] <rsalveti> :q
[16:17] <rsalveti> argh
[16:19] <rsalveti> janimo: currently this is the abi difference between glx and egl: http://paste.ubuntu.com/629870/
[16:20] <rsalveti> egl is just adding more functions, so it should be at least 100% compatible with the glx one
[16:30] <rsalveti> janimo: problem is, upstream is not going to accept this change for the 1.x series, and will probably also hard to convince debian to apply them
[16:31] <rsalveti> janimo: upstream would probably just want to fix 2276, and probably against 2.x series
[16:52] <RoozbehOnline> mvo: because i cant work with django and python now , i prefer do this with php :)
[16:54] <RoozbehOnline> mvo: i hope this project become an official project for ubuntu as firefox or chromium home page :)
[16:54] <RoozbehOnline> in next releases
[17:34] <Daviey> cjwatson: The netcfg BOOTIF fix, is that a mac address, or IP address field?
[17:34] <cjwatson> mac
[17:34] <Daviey> super, thanks
[17:34] <cjwatson> the syntax is defined in pxelinux's docs
[17:35] <Daviey> okay, dandy.
[17:35] <cjwatson> it's basically BOOTIF=01-$(echo "$mac" | tr : -)
[17:39] <jamespage> cjwatson: when you next take a look at new packages to sync from Debian please could you pull in libpam4j
[17:42] <cjwatson> jamespage: done
[17:42] <jamespage> cjwatson: thanks!
[20:04] <stgraber> geser: ping (DMB if you happen to be around)
[20:24] <smoser> mdeslaur, if you'd like to revisit the pygame fix, i'd appreciate it at https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/ubuntu/oneiric/pygame/fix-755980/+merge/65255 .
[20:26] <mdeslaur> smoser: ah! nice...
[20:28] <mdeslaur> smoser: that turned into a can of worms apparently :)
[20:28] <mdeslaur> smoser: sorry about that :)
[20:32] <smoser> mdeslaur, well, i think it wuld have regressed without your suggestions.
[20:32] <smoser> its much cleaner now i think.
[20:33] <smoser> i really dont know if its better to run "wrap-and-sort" or not.  I had originally suggested it to the original poster. the ubuntu version is newer than the debian.
[20:35] <micahg> smoser: we should only run wrap-and-sort on stuff that's Ubuntu only, it adds an unnecessary diff when merging from Debian
[20:39] <mdeslaur> smoser: As micahg said, I would tend not to run it if the package is in debian. In this case, it looks like the package diverted from debian anyway quite a bit, so...meh...
[20:40] <mdeslaur> smoser: uploaded. thanks!
[20:42] <micahg> actually, there's a new version of pygame on mentors.d.o apparently
[21:03] <bryceh> smoser, are you still patch piloting?  tedg could use some piloting help on his lp:ubuntu/json-glib branch
[21:06] <smoser> @pilot out
[21:07] <smoser> bryceh, so , no. :-(
[21:12] <maco> hah. a couple coworkers just walked past my desk:  "do you use ubuntu?" "oh yeah, definitely"
[21:14] <sladen> were you part of the conversation, or just the listener?
[21:14] <maco> listener
[22:30] <ScottK> maco doesn't (AFAIK) use Ubuntu in any case.
[22:30] <micahg> heh
[22:30]  * micahg thought she liked Aubergine...
[22:31] <maco> micahg: nope, i'm K user
[22:31] <micahg> maco: I know :)
[22:31] <ScottK> When there was Ubuntu (the project) and Ubuntu Desktop (the product) I think one could reasonably infer that any Ubuntu sibling that has official ISOs was a user of Ubuntu, but since Ubuntu is now the desktop, not so much.
[22:44] <Keybuk> yeah, I don't use Ubuntu either ...
[22:44] <Keybuk> it's ironically more confusing


[00:04] <Wassname> Never.
[00:09] <arc__> Hello
[00:09] <diddledan> Wassname: never say never
[00:10] <Wassname> Could you recommend a decent IRC client?
[00:11] <Azelphur> Wassname: xchat
[00:11] <Azelphur> it's in the software center
[00:11] <Wassname> I'm using XChat Gnome.
[00:11] <Azelphur> xchat gnome is bad, use xchat
[00:11] <arc__> Use online freenode ?
[00:12] <Wassname> Cheers. I'll remove it right away .
[00:12] <arc__> Xchat-gnome isn't that bad
[00:12] <Azelphur> apart from the whole being bad thing, sure
[00:12] <arc__> why is it bad then ?
[00:13] <Azelphur> from what I hear it's heavily featured limited, but I haven't actually tried it myself
[00:14] <arc__> i have it was fine i changed distros so i got xchat normal
[00:14]  * Azelphur shrugs
[00:14] <arc__> Ok then
[00:19] <arc__> 188 updates for my 2k3 server
[00:20] <diddledan> \o/
[00:20] <arc__> Fresh install
[00:20] <diddledan> oh, there'll be more yet then
[00:20] <arc__> Maybe
[00:21] <arc__> Got most of them except .net 4.0
[00:22] <arc__> No need for it just needed a pdc and wdm ubuntu server cant do wdm sadly
[00:22] <efonspor> hi everybody ı connetting to turkey
[00:22] <Wassname> Done.
[00:22] <efonspor> and ı have a problem pls help me
[00:22] <diddledan> wdm?
[00:22] <Wassname> XChat instant;y better than XChat Gnome.
[00:22] <efonspor> ı wanna dowload network maneger for ubuntu 12.4 lts
[00:22] <arc__> Windows deployment
[00:22] <efonspor> pls help me
[00:23] <efonspor> woh can ı dowload
[00:23] <efonspor> how*
[00:23] <diddledan> aah
[00:23] <arc__> Apt-get
[00:23] <efonspor> apt-get?
[00:23] <diddledan> network manager isn't already installed?!
[00:23] <efonspor> apt-get networkmanger?
[00:23] <arc__> ?
[00:23] <arc__> Maybe
[00:23] <efonspor> :D
[00:23] <efonspor> ı like this chanel
[00:23] <efonspor> guys :D
[00:23] <arc__> Most distros come preinstalled
[00:23] <efonspor> very nice
[00:24] <efonspor> no
[00:25] <efonspor> ı try but ı dont found
[00:25] <efonspor> pls anyone help me
[00:25] <arc__> Google it
[00:25] <efonspor> :D
[00:25] <efonspor> ı don't find
[00:25] <efonspor> my friend
[00:25] <arc__> I know its there i had to do it once
[00:25] <efonspor> usually ı use windows
[00:25] <arc__> Oh
[00:26] <efonspor> but ı like ubuntu
[00:26] <efonspor> and ı leanr beginer :)
[00:26] <efonspor> learn*
[00:26] <efonspor> similary my english :)
[00:26] <arc__> Lol
[00:26] <efonspor> :D
[00:27] <diddledan> I'm sure your English is much better than our collective Turkish :-p
[00:27] <efonspor> arc can u help me
[00:27] <efonspor> pls
[00:27] <efonspor> :))))
[00:27] <arc__> What does rm  -rf / do
[00:27] <diddledan> .danger
[00:27] <arc__> Can u get to a pc with internet
[00:27] <diddledan> !danger
[00:27] <diddledan> there we go
[00:27] <efonspor> ı connecting no
[00:28] <efonspor> for Local area network
[00:28] <efonspor> but ı wanna use
[00:28] <efonspor> wireless
[00:28] <efonspor> but my wireless don't working
[00:29] <arc__> that because it need restricted drivers
[00:29] <efonspor> no
[00:29] <efonspor> drivers full
[00:29] <efonspor> :)
[00:29] <efonspor> ı know
[00:29] <efonspor> ım studying computer engrenering :9
[00:29] <arc__> Ok
[00:29] <efonspor> :)
[00:29] <efonspor> arc_
[00:30] <Wassname> Can someone help me set up the connection to irc.taphouse.org via XChat please? Talk me through the steps?
[00:30] <arc__> Yea
[00:31] <arc__> I am not using a pc sk it hard to help unless i can remember lol
[00:31] <arc__> So
[00:31] <Wassname> What are you using?
[00:31] <arc__> Tablet
[00:32] <Wassname> Nice one.
[00:32] <arc__> I have team viwer on it as well :D
[00:32] <arc__> The power i hold
[00:32] <Wassname> Hah!
[00:32] <arc__> I should do a advert
[00:33] <arc__> Anyway i got go got to wake on lan at 7:15 for school
[00:33] <arc__> Too many got's
[00:34] <efonspor> arc_
[00:34] <efonspor> are you there?
[00:35] <arc__> Yea got to sleep sorry
[00:35] <efonspor> my friend pls search for me network manager ubuntu lts 12,04,03
[00:35] <efonspor> pls give me a adreess
[00:35] <efonspor> my friend ı can't found
[00:35] <efonspor> for me friend :)
[00:36] <arc__> Trust me google network manager applet ubuntu install
[00:46] <efonspor> anybody is there?
[00:46] <daftykins> sorta
[00:46] <efonspor> dafty
[00:46] <efonspor> can you help me?
[00:46] <efonspor> pls
[00:46] <daftykins> ask a question
[00:47] <efonspor> ı wanna dowload network manager for ubuntu lts 12.04.03
[00:47] <efonspor> pls help me my friend
[00:47] <daftykins> it's built in
[00:48] <efonspor> how can ı call it
[00:48] <daftykins> so you installed 12.04.3 desktop?
[00:48] <daftykins> network manager is the little network icon top right
[00:50] <efonspor> yes
[00:50] <efonspor> ı can dowload
[00:50] <efonspor> lts 12.04.3
[00:50] <daftykins> download what?
[00:50] <efonspor> for debian
[00:50] <efonspor> pocket
[00:50] <efonspor> buy ı wanna
[00:50] <efonspor> but
[00:50] <efonspor> *
[00:51] <efonspor> network manger
[00:51] <efonspor> because
[00:51] <daftykins> stop pressing enter
[00:52] <efonspor> soryy- ı can't connecting to wriles
[00:52] <daftykins> where are you from? perhaps a channel for your language would be a better idea
[00:54] <efonspor> :D
[00:54] <efonspor> turkey
[00:54] <efonspor> my friend
[00:55] <efonspor> but my english not very well  so, ı learn it :9
[00:55] <daftykins> hmm, not even sure what a turkish channel would be
[00:55] <daftykins> what's your two letter country code? :D
[00:57] <efonspor> :D
[00:57] <efonspor> but ın turkey time is 02:57 :)
[00:57] <daftykins> ah-har
[00:57] <efonspor> everybody is sleep :D
[00:57] <daftykins> i'm the only one awake UK time and i'm a bit drunk
[00:57] <efonspor> :D
[00:57] <daftykins> so i'm afraid i am no help tonight :(
[00:57] <efonspor> hahaha
[00:57] <efonspor> oke
[00:58] <efonspor> thanks for answer
[00:58] <efonspor> and help for english :)
[00:58] <daftykins> good luck! there's always #ubuntu too
[00:58] <efonspor> thanks
[00:58] <efonspor> my friend
[00:59] <efonspor> have nice day
[00:59] <efonspor> one day ı learning english :)
[00:59] <efonspor> may be  we talk coreectly :)
[03:31] <diddledan> thank god that #wordpress has people from all timezones to keep me awake when I can't be bothered to go to bed
[05:33] <shauno> hey that's not fair, it's not wp-uk.  of course it's full of -5's
[05:36] <diddledan> you in -uk?
[05:37] <shauno> I'm not sure what you're asking.  insert coffee and try again?
[05:38] <diddledan> wp-uk?
[05:38] <shauno> oh, nah, I'm just pointing out you're comparing apples to oranges
[05:38] <diddledan> aah
[06:31] <shauno> well, here's some early morning entertainment; http://www.finegael.ie/latest-news/2013/odonovan-calls-for-crackd/  "TD for Limerick, Patrick O' Donovan has called for tougher controls on the use of open source internet browsers .."
[06:36] <diddledan> shauno: is it april 1st?
[06:36] <shauno> it's always april 1st in ireland
[06:37] <diddledan> wtf?!
[06:37] <diddledan> that's nuts
[06:37] <diddledan> I .. huh? .. I .. wtf?!
[06:38] <diddledan> you've completely broken my brain now
[06:38] <diddledan> what action is he referring to in the last paragraph that the us agencies have done?
[06:39] <shauno> I think they're referring to Tor
[06:40] <shauno> or rather; I hope they're referring to Tor, as it's the least painful enterpretation I can think of
[07:06] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:11] <shauno> o/
[07:48] <popey> Morning
[07:48] <popey> diddledan: saw greg-kh mention ye olde steam os on G+ this morning ☻
[07:48] <popey> s/diddledan/directhex/
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: "you can't even", is the expression, I think
[08:26] <diplo> Morning all
[08:26] <MooDoo> morning
[08:40] <shauno> oh this is awesome.  java update is breaking people's access to some oracle app.  left hand, meet right hand
[08:44] <brobostigon> morning everyone.
[08:45] <Myrtti> ih ♥ my charger finally arrived
[09:01] <TwistedLucidity> Urf. Is it home time yet?
[09:01] <TwistedLucidity> Oh wait, I work from home
[09:01]  * TwistedLucidity crawls back into bed
[09:08] <MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: pah!
[09:15] <BigRedS> Bah. IT's one of those mornings where I wish Jabber just did the right thing
[09:15] <BigRedS> Or, rather, where I didn't turn my laptop off before coming in to work
[09:32] <lazarus_> hi
[09:36] <daubers> Morning
[09:38] <BigRedS> Goood Morning!
[09:42] <popey> hello
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> \o
[09:46] <BigRedS> anyone know how simple it would be to have Virtualmin create two unix users per website?
[09:48] <diddledan> TwistedLucidity: I know the feelings
[09:49] <SuperMatt> sup guys?
[09:51] <diddledan> is it a bird? is it a plane? is it a nerd? no it's SuperMatt
[09:51] <SuperMatt> I was answer yes to that third question
[09:51] <diddledan> :-p
[09:51] <diddledan> me too
[09:52] <SuperMatt> ugg, my home server has decided to slow to a crawl
[09:53] <diddledan> htop ftw
[09:54] <SuperMatt> yarr
[09:54] <SuperMatt> I'm swapping for some reason
[09:55] <BigRedS> swapoff
[09:58] <Myrtti> wax on, wax off
[10:47] <diddledan> one website made live
[10:47] <diddledan> \o/
[10:47] <diddledan> go team me!
[10:49] <SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/2014/01/always-mock-adobe/
[10:49] <neuro> i temporarily just lost another aws ec2 instance
[10:49] <diddledan> lolz
[10:50] <neuro> lit one up on monday, brand new instance, it died on monday night, and another one went phut for 25 minutes
[10:50] <diddledan> neuro: not good
[10:50] <neuro> we got a notification yesterday morning that the one from monday would be retired at the end of the month
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> neuro: software error inside the instance, or Amazon messing with things?
[10:50] <neuro> which is aws speak for "the underlying physical hardware has died on it's arse, sucks to be you"
[10:51] <neuro> and of course i keep apache logs in the ephemeral (instance) storage ... doh
[10:51] <diddledan> SuperMatt: I like that minimalist layout yet still having furniture around the edge
[10:51] <neuro> MartijnVdS: host failure
[10:51] <BigRedS> If your EC2 instances aren't disposable you're doing it wrong
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: sure but having to spin up a new instance every few days because of host failre is Amazon doing it wrong
[10:52] <neuro> BigRedS: it's an infra i inherited, i haven't done anything to make the apache logs smarter yet
[10:52] <BigRedS> Oh, AWS in general is Amazon doing it wrong. But that's what you signed up for
[10:52] <SuperMatt> diddledan: it's the new deafault theme in wordpress
[10:52] <mapps> so strange
[10:52] <diddledan> SuperMatt: ooh
[10:52] <mapps> i can connect to my bt wireless but not virgin :)
[10:52] <neuro> BigRedS: it's possible to keep instances running for years without issue
[10:53] <BigRedS> yeah, but it's a bit silly to rely on it
[10:53] <neuro> not really
[10:53] <neuro> you're basically saying no vps infrastructure should be relied upon
[10:54] <neuro> if you're saying ec2 instances should be treated as disposable, why have ebs?
[10:54] <BigRedS> No, I'm saying that AWS is designed such that replacement is easier than repair
[10:54] <diddledan> strikes me as odd that amazon don't do live migrations to shuffle vms about
[10:54] <neuro> they just repaired the instance that died
[10:54] <neuro> it came back up on the same host as the instance storage wasn't emptied
[10:54] <neuro> (which is good for me as i haven't lost 10 hrs of apache logs)
[10:55] <BigRedS> so if it's hard to dump one VM for a freshly brewed one it seems you're missing the point
[10:55] <neuro> that's kind of an unfair statement
[10:56] <neuro> VMs can be ephemeral if that's what you need them to be, but it's also about being able to aggregate and condense physical hardware
[10:57] <BigRedS> I'd say more traditional VPS hosting is more suited to the latter than is AWS
[10:57] <neuro> "traditional"?
[10:58] <BigRedS> yeah, where you rent a virtualised machine and treat it as if it were a real one
[10:58] <neuro> how is that different from aws?
[10:58] <neuro> i'm not trying to start a fight btw, i'm genuinely curious where you're coming from
[10:58] <BigRedS> well, you can do that on AWS
[10:59] <BigRedS> but on AWS when you have a new version of your thing to deploy you create a new AMI and spin up new VMs with it then direct the load balancer at them
[10:59] <mapps> i dont get why everyone wants all this cloud infrastructure etc whats wrong with just housing your own servers..storage and everything is cheap enough?
[10:59] <BigRedS> on a normal VPS you'd probably upgrade in-place is if it were a machine that's harder to replace
[10:59] <BigRedS> mapps: trebling capacity for an hour a day is hard to do by yourself
[10:59] <neuro> mapps: because you can switch the hardware from underneath yourself without massive outlay
[11:00] <BigRedS> for example. The big draw of The Cloud is the flexibility. You also make a lot of boring problems someone else's
[11:00] <BigRedS> (and, as a result, end up beholden to their solutions)
[11:00] <neuro> well, sort of
[11:00] <mapps> ok so any boring problems i.e. connectivity/downtime is theres yea? i get that
[11:00] <neuro> there are plenty of ways to treat your deployment as agnostic as possible
[11:00] <mapps> but then you have entire complete cintrol if its your own HW
[11:01] <neuro> you only have complete control if the hardware is sitting right beside you
[11:01] <BigRedS> yeah, but sometimes scalability is more important than what colour the patch cables are
[11:01] <neuro> ^ this
[11:01] <mapps> yea i guess thats true you can scale up easily in a matter of minutes
[11:01] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:01] <neuro> "oh my site is being slashdotted, hang on while i light up 50 more web servers and bung them into the load balancer"
[11:01] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Hat Day! :-D
[11:01] <neuro> done, takes a few minutes
[11:01] <BigRedS> yeah, exactly
[11:01] <mapps> if i had say an aws server or something -- can you run any servers you want
[11:01] <neuro> within reason
[11:01] <mapps> do you get dedicated IPv6/ipv6?
[11:01] <neuro> no
[11:01] <neuro> but
[11:01] <BigRedS> assumign the load balancer doesn't fall over :)
[11:02] <neuro> you can get ipv6 on the load balancers
[11:02] <neuro> BigRedS: been there ;)
[11:02] <mapps> i see
[11:02] <neuro> ipv6 for instances is on the roadmap
[11:02] <neuro> but you can make your load balancer ipv4, ipv6 or dual stack responsive
[11:02] <mapps> i just wondered so dedicated ipv4 for yourself so you could run any servers using any port?
[11:02] <neuro> so you can pretend your site is ipv6 enabled
[11:02] <BigRedS> neuro: yeah - "It seems traffic picked up too quickly. If you warn us beforehand next time we'll warm it up"
[11:02] <neuro> BigRedS: scumbag amazon ;)
[11:03] <neuro> mapps: yeah, you can assign an "elastic IP", which is basically a static IP
[11:03] <neuro> otherwise when you stop and start your instance, you get a new IP
[11:03] <mapps> right, thanks..
[11:03] <mapps> yea
[11:03] <BigRedS> neuro: well, it's what we pay them pittance for :) I also liked the way their '99.9% guaranteed uptime' always seemed to translate to '0.1% guaranteed downtime'
[11:03] <mapps> and they allow anything so i could run openVPN and apache?
[11:03] <neuro> but if you request an elastic IP and don't assign it to an instance, you're charged for it
[11:03] <BigRedS> but I've not been there for a couple of years, maybe they're better now
[11:03] <neuro> "allow anything" ... within reason
[11:04] <neuro> you can light up a stock 12.04 AMI and do what you want on it
[11:04] <neuro> but some things are restricted
[11:04] <BigRedS> mapps: yeah, you spin up a server and it's yours. It's exactly like having a physical box except all the hardware's imaginary
[11:04] <mapps> thats interesting..but if you use the static IP you arent charged
[11:04] <BigRedS> so it's like having a physical box that's in another room
[11:04] <neuro> i.e. traffic is billable over a certain usage threshold, smtp is rate limited and can be blocked if you breach a threshold limit, etc
[11:04] <mapps> ahh
[11:04] <mapps> probably not cost effective for personal individual use?
[11:04] <neuro> well it depends what your usage case is
[11:05] <neuro> a t1.micro is probably sufficient for something just to ssh into and do vpn proxying etc
[11:05] <BigRedS> there is a free tier
[11:05] <mapps> well i wouldnt really have any use beyonds messing about
[11:05] <mapps> oh really..didnt know there was a free plan
[11:05] <neuro> and if you stay within the bundled usage limits, your costs would be reasonably predictable
[11:05] <neuro> yeah, if you're a new customer
[11:05] <neuro> you can get a t1.micro for a year for free
[11:05] <BigRedS> well, it lasts a year and it's really hard to make it be actually free
[11:06] <mapps> ah
[11:06] <BigRedS> I used it for odds-and-sods for ~$3/month or thereabouts. But I do also have a real-life machine elsewhere that I use for most things
[11:06] <neuro> http://aws.amazon.com/free/
[11:06] <neuro> basically you can get a 1 cpu, 613MB RAM, 30GB disk VM for a year
[11:07] <neuro> as long as you stay within 2m IOPS, you're fine
[11:07] <neuro> can't remember what the free traffic level is
[11:08] <mapps> 2m IOPS?
[11:08] <neuro> aha
[11:08] <Laney> omfg
[11:08] <neuro> data transfer in = free
[11:08] <Laney> why did I ever think a wireless keyboard would be good
[11:08] <neuro> data transfer out to internet, 1GB free
[11:08] <mapps> lol Laney
[11:08] <neuro> 1GB-10TB = 12c/GB
[11:08] <mapps> most people say they are
[11:08] <mapps> never used one myself
[11:08] <Laney> yeah until it dies in the middle of a sentence
[11:08]  * Laney goes to root around for AAAs
[11:09] <neuro> yeah, IOPS
[11:09] <mapps> il try the free plan then
[11:09] <neuro> reads/writes to/from the disk
[11:10] <mapps> why on earth can't i connect to my virgin wireless? just says 'taking longer than usual' no pass wrong etc nd it works on my laptop downstairs
[11:10] <mapps> cant think what it could be ;/
[11:10] <neuro> this is why i don't use ISP-provided routers
[11:10] <neuro> pfsense + airport extreme FTW
[11:11] <BigRedS> Oh man, the network at my dad's is a horriffic collection of great ideas about replacing networking things
[11:11] <mapps> I like the looks of the new linksys 802.11ac router--theyve been woking with openWRT to make it work with it
[11:11] <BigRedS> last weekend I found we had no DHCP servers at all there, the weekend before there were three giving out leases on two different subnets...
[11:11] <mapps> that's neat!#
[11:11] <neuro> nice
[11:11] <mapps> lol
[11:11] <mapps> on one network BigRedS 3 dhcp how?!
[11:12] <neuro> my folks had an openreach engineer round on saturday trying to figure out why their infinity was being crap
[11:12] <BigRedS> There's the ISP router, a Netger thingy that's supposed to be relaying to upstairs and a D-Link one to cover the garden
[11:12] <neuro> turns out the Kelly Communications guys messed up the NTE5 replacement
[11:12] <neuro> but while troubleshooting, openreach bod reset their home hub
[11:12] <neuro> doh
[11:12] <BigRedS> and, every so often, one or both of the DHCP servers that's supposed to have DHCP turned off forgets to not give out leases
[11:12] <mapps> the infinity heres been quite good for me so far- think its 75m bit
[11:12] <neuro> after i'd reconfigured it from 192.168.1 to 192.168.131, set up port forwarding and disabled onboard DHCP so their server upstairs could do dhcp
[11:12] <mapps> kelly comms?
[11:13] <BigRedS> and sometimes someone tries troubleshooting and forgets which one's supposed to be authoritative and we all switch to 10.0.0.something for a while
[11:13] <neuro> yeah, the crowd that openreach subcontract installs out ot
[11:13] <mapps> ah
[11:13] <neuro> s/ot/to/
[11:13] <neuro> BigRedS: wheee
[11:13] <neuro> subnet bingo
[11:13] <BigRedS> neuro: yeah, it's like working but more frustrating and for free
[11:13] <directhex> popey, thanks for letting me know, i don't pay attention to g+ usually
[11:13] <neuro> so i was raging at openreach bod but nothing i could really do about it since i wasn't there
[11:13] <directhex> popey, have you met greg? nice guy.
[11:14] <popey> no
[11:14] <neuro> and i'd forgotten to warn my dad to say "don't reboot the home hub unless you really have to"
[11:14] <BigRedS> 'course, muggins here made it worse by configuring a pi to route between all possible networks and plugging that in to see if it'd help things carry on working...
[11:14] <mapps> we have 2 bt hub things with infinity too
[11:14] <neuro> so my dad was like "it seems to be working now, can you log in and check?" and i had to say no :P
[11:14] <neuro> i unplugged mine
[11:14] <neuro> waste of space
[11:14] <mapps> i still havent got a raspberry pi - keep thinking maybe i should get one
[11:14] <neuro> and the sky sagem piece of rubbish too
[11:14] <BigRedS> Mine's a solution looking for a problem, really
[11:15] <neuro> just plugged the openreach modems straight into the back of my ESXi server so pfsense could use them
[11:15] <Seeker`> I use my pi for DHCP / DNS
[11:15] <Seeker`> over the BT infinity hub
[11:15] <neuro> i've had an rpi for ages
[11:15] <BigRedS> yeah, I pondered that, but I've never really had issues with ISP hardware
[11:15] <neuro> still sitting in it's box
[11:15] <Seeker`> the DNS on the hub is slooooooooooooooooooooow
[11:15] <neuro> BigRedS: i moan, but they're usually ok, they just don't meet my usage requirements
[11:15] <BigRedS> and using that makes a good deal of the network into someone else's problem, which is my favourite sort of problem
[11:16] <neuro> namely ipv6 tunneling
[11:16] <mapps> do you not have 2 bt hubs for infinity?
[11:16] <neuro> me? no
[11:16] <Seeker`> not 2 hubs, no
[11:16] <mapps> oh
[11:16] <Seeker`> you get a VDSL modem and a hub
[11:16] <neuro> bt sent me a home hub 3, and i have a sagem thing from sky
[11:16] <BigRedS> there's two boxes; a modem and a router I think
[11:16] <neuro> for now
[11:16] <BigRedS> well, at my dad's, so lord knows what's supposed to be there
[11:16] <neuro> bt home hub 5 will have an integrated vdsl modem
[11:17] <mapps> what do you use ipv6 tunnelling for btw? ive seen you can get a tunnel from he.net for free-but what would i use it for
[11:17] <neuro> i have an he.net tunnel
[11:17] <neuro> i use it for ipv6
[11:17] <mapps> yea but i meant what specifically
[11:17] <neuro> sorry if that's somewhat obvious
[11:17] <neuro> i use it to be online with ipv6
[11:17] <neuro> so that if i want to use ipv6, i can
[11:18] <mapps> yea i get that but i cant see how i could use ipv6 i understand what it is and the tunnel
[11:18] <neuro> you use it the same way you'd use ipv4
[11:18] <neuro> to connect to stuff
[11:19] <mapps> yea i just cant see the need for me now really? not everythings ipv6 enabled for one thing
[11:19] <neuro> no, but enough things are to make it useful
[11:19] <BigRedS> and there's a small (but growing) number of hosts that are ip6 only
[11:19] <neuro> also it's nice just having to set a inbound firewall rule to talk to something on my lan from outside rather than having to do a NAT rule as well
[11:19] <mapps> ah
[11:19] <mapps> yea thats true
[11:20] <BigRedS> I don't think any are english language yet, but that'll happen
[11:20] <Dave2> Also you can connect to IRC with awesome custom hostnames
[11:20] <Dave2> That's the most important bit.
[11:20] <mapps> haha
[11:20] <neuro> neuro has userhost<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and realname neuro
[11:20] <Dave2> (Assuming you own a domain.)
[11:21]  * neuro owns too many these days
[11:22] <neuro> i have to renew isitbeeroclock.com at the end of the month
[11:22] <bigcalm> neuro: that's reminded me that I have a vanity domain that's up for renewal.
[11:23] <popey> Oh *really*.
[11:25] <neuro> bigcalm: depends what it is :)
[11:25] <bigcalm> smutsmith.com
[11:25] <BigRedS> I keep getting emails about renewals of drunken domain purchases
[11:26] <BigRedS> like llamallamaduck.net
[11:26] <Dave2> no they can't, it's unplugged/got tape over it. And I don't have a family. So there.
[11:26] <BigRedS> why did I buy that?
[11:26] <Dave2> probably because of the llama song
[11:26] <BigRedS> and why have I renewed it five or six times
[11:26] <neuro> bigcalm: pass :D
[11:26] <neuro> i bought a stupid domain recently, can't remember what it was though
[11:26] <bigcalm> I should try and contact people who have email redirects with it to see if any of them want it
[11:27] <BigRedS> yeah, most of my domains ended up used as temporary domains for freind's sites and suchlike, so I'm never sure if anyone's actually using them
[11:27] <neuro> oh yeah ... 2013-07-31 omnombuntu.com
[11:28] <neuro> i have no idea why i bought that
[11:28] <Dave2> "recently", "half a year ago", close enough
[11:28] <BigRedS> haha
[11:28] <neuro> well i thought it was recently
[11:29] <BigRedS> I have deebian.org which was supposed to end up a parody for people who mispronounce 'debian'
[11:29] <BigRedS> but that was too much like hard work
[11:30] <neuro> ah, this is why it was registered: https://gist.github.com/evilneuro/0d0e40f14f981ca5a136
[11:33]  * diddledan notices that http://omnombuntu.com is nice and friendly
[11:33] <neuro> it's my default "i haven't configured a vhost yet" page
[11:38] <diplo> Nice bit of bootstrap :)
[11:40] <neuro> it's bootstrap 2, i need to update it
[11:40] <diplo> I was going to mention that :)
[11:41] <neuro> jinx
[11:42] <bigcalm> Crontab - */2 in the minute column would mean run every 2 minutes?
[11:44] <BigRedS> yeah
[11:45] <bigcalm> Ta
[12:14] <MattJ> BigRedS, Jabber \o/
[12:14] <MattJ> BigRedS, what server/client do you use?
[12:16] <BigRedS> I don't know what the server is, but all my clients are pidgin
[12:16] <foobarry> as soon as i popped the kethcup sachet in my pocket this morning at home, in case i eat a pasty "one day soon" , i knew i would end up eating one today
[12:17] <BigRedS> MattJ: ^ I've also little control over the server, but if there's a way to make it so that every message sent to me goes to every one of my connected clients that's definitely one that'll make it in :)
[12:17] <BigRedS> Is that an intended feature of xmpp?
[12:17] <MattJ> Absolutely
[12:17] <BigRedS> Ah good. It did seem a ridiculous thing to not do, but on the other hand if it can do it it seems even more ridiculous to be off by default
[12:17] <MattJ> Client support is a bit thin at the moment, but it's coming - and few public servers have it enabled yet, but if they're running Prosody it's quite easy to turn on
[12:18] <BigRedS> do you know what that feature is called?
[12:18] <MattJ> Message carbons, or just "carbons" generally
[12:18] <BigRedS> our jabber server's ~5 years old
[12:18] <MattJ> Time for an upgrade :)
[12:18] <diplo> I've been playing/testing ejabberd recently
[12:18] <BigRedS> nah, not til the disks start smoking
[12:18] <diplo> Would like to put it in at work
[12:18] <MattJ> I think support is coming in Pidgin for it, I'll poke about the status of that
[12:19] <diplo> you work on prodsody MattJ ?
[12:19] <MattJ> Yes
[12:20] <diplo> Will have to give it a go, know who to poke in case of issues now :)
[12:20] <MattJ> Sure :)
[12:20] <BigRedS> I don't understand how companies in more than one room can operate without it
[12:20] <diplo> MSN :/
[12:21] <BigRedS> oh. I guess by "it" I meant some sort of instant messaging
[12:21] <diplo> yeah, I think most companies have something in place, I know a lot of companies use OCS
[12:21] <diplo> But that is stupidly expensive!
[12:23] <BigRedS> Oh, the MS thingy? Lync?
[12:23] <diplo> yeah
[12:23] <diplo> Was OCS when I used it, but think it may be called that now, give it it's due it worked quite well
[12:23] <BigRedS> yeah, but as with most MS stuff it's probably fairly expensive but integrates seamlessly and reliably
[12:23] <diplo> When I was looking at it, it used Jabber as a backend
[12:24] <diplo> Doubt it does now though
[12:24] <BigRedS> I'm pretty sure it can do xmpp federation
[12:24] <diddledan> lync will probably hook into skype soon if it doesn't already
[12:25] <diplo> Bah, no official CentOS prodsody package
[12:25]  * diplo tests on an ubuntu box and get others to do something later
[12:25] <BigRedS> stick a proper OS on that, then
[12:25] <MattJ> BigRedS, Lync can do federation, yes - but they only officially support it for communicating with Google
[12:25] <diplo> Not my choice, everyone has used RH/CentOS since years before I joined, hard work to get them to use something else
[12:26] <BigRedS> MattJ: Google who're turning off XMPP federation?
[12:26] <knightwise> hey guys
[12:26] <knightwise> i have a question
[12:26] <MattJ> BigRedS, right (so they say)
[12:26] <diddledan> BigRedS: I thought they turned it back on again?
[12:26] <knightwise> I installed 13.10 on my lenovo twist, everything worked fine. Wifi speeds were pretty good
[12:27] <BigRedS> diddledan: I think it works, but they've said they will be breaking it
[12:27] <knightwise> last week I got a new router and now my wifi speeds on ubuntu are terrible
[12:27] <diddledan> BigRedS: with the caveat that it now has spam detection
[12:27] <BigRedS> and it doesn't work at all if you use hangouts I think
[12:27] <knightwise> and other machines in my network arent affected, just the ubunth machine
[12:27] <BigRedS> knightwise: do you know what your DNS server is? Try not using the new router for it
[12:27] <knightwise> very odd , i think it might have to to with the wpa encryption or something ? any idea
[12:27] <knightwise> I use openDNS as my dns server
[12:28] <knightwise> I tried static ip's and switching DNS servers
[12:28] <knightwise> but even responce times on pings are realy high
[12:28] <diddledan> knightwise: direct with <IP_ADDRESS> configured on your ubuntu machine and not via your router's resolver?
[12:28] <knightwise> Yep
[12:29] <knightwise> Does ubuntu have issues with routers who want to be dns servers (because the other la&ptops on my network don't have a problem)
[12:29] <diddledan> ubuntu does what you tell it
[12:30] <diddledan> if you tell it to use <IP_ADDRESS> as your dns source then it'll do just that
[12:30] <BigRedS> diddledan: whoah there. Ubuntu very much uses network-manager
[12:30] <BigRedS> which does do what you tell it if you tell it right, but it's quite easy to confuse it by trying to tell it in the wrong way
[12:30] <knightwise> could it be that network manager has NO problem with an airport extreme router but does have a problem when I get an Asus router ?
[12:31] <BigRedS> shouldn't be, nm shouldn't know the difference
[12:31] <BigRedS> it *could* be that the driver for the wifi chipset does, I guess. What's the chipset?
[12:31] <MartijnVdS> maybe the asus router is set up wrong/differently?
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> different frequency? different wifi version ("real" N vs "draft" N vs bg vs a vs ac)
[12:32] <knightwise> but then why are there no other devices affeccted.
[12:32] <knightwise> I hooked it up to the G
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: could be a lot of things really.. what wifi chip do you have locally?
[12:32] <knightwise> I could try altering the cannel.
[12:32] <knightwise> I got to check MartijnVdS , don't have the machine with me right now.
[12:33] <knightwise> i'm also gonna hook it up to a different router to see if there is any difference
[12:33] <foobarry> no ipv6 configured anywhere?
[12:34] <BigRedS> My iwlwifi spent several releases just not doing 802.11n
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: but.. but.. IPv6  is the future!
[12:34] <BigRedS> turn n off, everything works fine
[12:34] <BigRedS> for example
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: b43 used to be flaky as well
[12:34] <foobarry> my intel wifi doesn't do n very well
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> it got better when openwrt started using it and actually fixing bugs
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: mine does 300mbit fine
[12:34] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: it isn't any more?
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: less than before
[12:35] <foobarry> 4965agn is bad for n
[12:35] <knightwise> Nope , not that i know of .. i might have to check on the router for that.
[12:36] <foobarry> are ping response slow from everywhere ?
[12:36] <foobarry> check mtr for the slowness
[12:36] <diddledan> mtr++
[12:38] <knightwise> foobarry: rest of the network is fine ,
[12:38] <knightwise> macs, windows machines , androids
[12:38] <knightwise> all ok.
[12:39] <foobarry> so it's slow pinging the router from ubuntu?
[12:39] <foobarry> also do ping -n
[12:40] <diddledan> err... how have sky managed to get me onto their "landlords" mailing list?
[12:40] <diddledan> I got a letter just now that is advertising communal distribution systems
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: nice, is it cheaper? ;)
[12:41] <diddledan> lol
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: wholesale rates and all that
[12:41] <knightwise> I havent been pinging the router yet , need to try that
[12:41] <foobarry> what have you been pinging?
[12:43] <diddledan> sky.com/scs is the thing they want me to buy for my block of flats
[12:43] <knightwise> foobarry: outside sites
[12:43] <knightwise> but i'm going to give it a try tonight and do a side by side comparison with my macbook
[12:43] <foobarry> start with router, IP only
[12:44] <foobarry> then go wider if no issue
[12:44] <MartijnVdS> also, one step at a time
[12:44]  * diddledan runs
[12:44] <knightwise> foobarry: MartijnVdS thanx :) gonna do a step by step problem analisys tonight
[12:45] <diddledan> analy cist?
[12:45] <diddledan> sounds painful
[12:45] <foobarry> use mtr and other methods to find slowness, including ping -n to eliminate dns issues
[12:47] <foobarry> also checking g or n, forcing g if you have problems on n
[12:48] <knightwise> thats the funny part . i have it on G , because it doesn't even see the N SSID.
[12:48] <MartijnVdS> Also, ralink chipset client-side = flaky
[12:52] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: http://tweakers.net/nieuws/93696/telenet-begint-met-uitrol-ipv6.html !
[12:53] <knightwise> whaw
[12:53] <knightwise> next up they should open up the standard ports below 1024 for everyone
[12:53] <diddledan> nice
[12:53] <knightwise> instead of keeping them bloody closed
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: urgh..
[12:54] <neuro> lol wut
[12:54] <knightwise> yep
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> neuro: anti home-server thingy
[12:54] <knightwise> cant open up a port under 1024
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> neuro: Belgium = strange old-fashioned ISPs
[12:54] <knightwise> very nice if you want a pptp vpn or something
[12:54] <neuro> 64,512 ports not enough for you?
[12:55] <diddledan> I launched a brand new site in belgium today
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> neuro: adjusting the default is too much work, man.
[12:55] <foobarry> " i've designed the chip which will go into the 2016 model of the raspberry pi"
[12:55] <knightwise> diddledan: which one
[12:55] <diddledan> knightwise: www.mitocare.be
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: is it about their new "cultural heritage" thing?
[12:55] <neuro> nippy
[12:55] <diddledan> nah
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www.flanderstoday.eu/living/frietkoten-recognised-cultural-heritage
[12:56] <diddledan> lmao
[12:56] <diddledan> I love that there's a national association of french fry shops
[12:57] <MartijnVdS> It's one of the things Belgians are known for (at least in .nl)
[12:57] <popey> neuro: seen http://ripplechat.io/ ?
[12:57] <knightwise> of course
[12:57] <knightwise> we (kinda) invented the thing
[12:57] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: so that's why they're called French :P
[12:57] <neuro> popey: i have now
[12:58] <knightwise> MartijnVdS: good question.
[12:58] <popey> there was a location based chat client about 10 years ago, called Trepia
[12:58] <popey> it didn't do well and shutdown less than a year later
[12:58] <knightwise> the first report of fried potato sticks being sold in pointy baggs comes from the state fair in Liege (luik) in 1850
[12:58] <Laney> grindr
[12:58] <popey> people didnt really carry devices around then, more likely to succeed now
[12:58] <knightwise> 2 guys (one was belgium, one was suiss) sold them there
[12:58] <neuro> i suspect it would be full of people just insulting each other
[12:58] <diddledan> Laney: fun
[12:58] <knightwise> and it became a national tradition
[12:59] <popey> I met someone on Trepia and still keep in touch ☻
[12:59] <foobarry> Laney: wrong window :P
[12:59] <Laney> :D
[12:59] <neuro> foobarry: hehe
[12:59] <Laney> I didn't dare to sign up
[12:59] <foobarry> ed balls
[12:59] <diddledan> Laney: awww
[12:59] <diddledan> grindr is one of those things that I know about third-hand
[12:59]  * neuro isn't a gay man looking to hook up with other gay men, so have never signed up
[13:00] <diddledan> neuro: you're probably missing out
[13:00] <neuro> i seriously doubt that
[13:00] <diddledan> :-p
[13:00] <knightwise> wasn't grinder that app from that movie ?
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: no.
[13:00] <diddledan> lol
[13:00] <knightwise> yes it was
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: it exists. Ask Stephen Fry.
[13:00] <knightwise> Lol :) For real ! :)
[13:00] <knightwise> wicked
[13:01] <neuro> what are you two on about?
[13:01] <neuro> knightwise: did you think we were talking about a fake app?
[13:01] <diddledan> has Stephen Fry hooked up with someone through it?
[13:01] <neuro> probably
[13:01] <Laney> haha
[13:01] <foobarry> annnnyway,...
[13:01] <neuro> i suspect you'd need to ask him though
[13:02] <diddledan> I thought he was respectible
[13:02] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: he's mentioned the app and what it's for a few times on TV
[13:02] <foobarry> jeremy clarkson installed in on top gear and found some people in the audience
[13:02] <diddledan> foobarry: did he shame them?
[13:03] <knightwise> neuro: yep :)
[13:03] <knightwise> i am stil naive :p
[13:03] <awilkins> There's Tinder, the hetero / universal version of Grindr
[13:03] <awilkins> I think it's rubbish outside of London though
[13:03] <neuro> "He's 9 miles away, I've got my Merc, we could be there in a jiffy": http://i.imgur.com/pXvKvdc.jpg
[13:03] <foobarry> and pub/bar another version where people hook up based on people in your proximity
[13:04] <awilkins> All I've managed to communicate with on it are robots that spout inane Barnum statements
[13:04] <neuro> http://www.zie.nl/video/tv-reclame/Stephen-Fry-bij-Top-Gear/m1dz5exf6mmn - skip to 04:55
[13:04] <diddledan> lol "it's like real life, but better"
[13:05] <neuro> there was no one in the audience, but there were people "nearby"
[13:06] <neuro> but yes
[13:06] <neuro> aaaaaaanyway
[13:06] <foobarry> i know a celebrity who used "phone book" when he wanted rumpy pumpy. the little black book does realyl exist
[13:07] <knightwise> tinder : probably full of lonely single guys
[13:07] <foobarry> and dogs
[13:07] <neuro> girls can be lonely and single too
[13:07] <knightwise> true , but they arent realy gonna use those apps a lot .. are they ?
[13:07] <knightwise> are they ?
[13:09] <foobarry> i would reckon that facebook male/female ratio is 50/50 ish
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: nah, closer to 40/60  I think
[13:11] <foobarry> certainly more facebook addicts in know are women
[13:12]  * foobarry stops generalising
[13:17] <BigRedS> everyeone for whom I know they use tinder are female
[13:18] <awilkins> Tinder is pushed as being more favourable than average dating sites to women
[13:18] <awilkins> Because they have control over who contacts them
[13:18] <awilkins> Whereas they usually have to wade through an epic flood of unsavoury dudes
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: don't they have to do that *anyway*? I mean.. there needs to be a "first contact" moment
[13:19] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, On Tinder you can't even message someone unless they swiped you to the right
[13:19] <popey> unsurprisingly there is nobody on ripple within ~30 miles of me
[13:19] <popey> s/30/20
[13:19] <knightwise> Damn , talk about superficial
[13:19] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Whereas on dating sites you can pretty much message anyone with anything right off (depending on conditions of service)
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: yes, which you then discard if they're creepy?
[13:20] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Women get a LOT of creepy
[13:20] <foobarry> in other news, here's a man riding the worlds smallest bike https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSkBRskWdzs
[13:20] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Especially attractive ones
[13:20] <knightwise> foobarry: thank heavens for that
[13:21] <awilkins> At least on Tinder they only have to put up with creepy from people they fancy in the first place :-)
[13:22] <awilkins> The downside is that it pads it's library unfairly I think - I saw so many profiles from way outside my distance settings (like - the profile description actually says "I live in London") that I don't think it's that popular outside of London so they just spam you with profiles from elsewhere to keep you interested
[13:23] <MartijnVdS> it was big in .nl for a few weeks last year
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> I have *no* idea if anyone is still on it 8-)
[13:24] <knightwise> my god
[13:24] <awilkins> Ah, the Netherlands. Possibly ladies have to put up with less creepy there
[13:24] <knightwise> if you have to slide right and left ... you get "rejection RSI"
[13:24] <awilkins> I hear the Nordic countries are a haven of treating women like actual people
[13:25] <knightwise> respect for a girl is the first step to a good relationship
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: Maybe because there are fewer Dutch-speakers in the world.. but from what I've heard, there are creeps.
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: what if the relationship is between 2 men?
[13:25] <knightwise> Respect is always the first step
[13:25] <awilkins> I wish men in the USA and UK would get the point and stop peeing in the dating pool for those of us that at least try our best to respect women
[13:26] <knightwise> awilkins: deal with it my friend.
[13:26] <foobarry> i read that around the time of the battle of waterloo, death from women sleeping with men were running at around 10%, deaths from being in the war, 8%
[13:26] <Myrtti> awilkins: there are arseholes in Nordic countries as well
[13:26] <awilkins> knightwise, Yeah, the point I'm making is that with so many creeps around and the disproportionate amount of creeping they do at women, they skew the perception of the rest of us
[13:26] <awilkins> Until the default assumption is that we're all creeps
[13:27] <knightwise> awilkins: correct.
[13:27] <Myrtti> just listening to an ackquaintance telling a story on how on her new workplace women are expected to do the cleaning in addition to their normal work without extra perks
[13:27] <knightwise> same with muslim terrorism and drama-queens for gay people
[13:27] <awilkins> It's the news
[13:28] <awilkins> They should be required to provide infographics on the statistical probability of bad stuff that happens
[13:28] <awilkins> Like every time a child is abducted they should cut to a sack of rice and say "The likelyhood of this occurring is approximately one grain of rice out of this sack."
[13:28] <diddledan> awilkins: I know the feeling
[13:29] <foobarry> i have risc os installed on a SD card. how do i add files to it from ubuntu?
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: what kind of filesystem does risc os use?
[13:30] <foobarry> from memory, it was ADFS,
[13:30] <awilkins> Yeah, Acorn ADFS
[13:30] <diddledan> awilkins: it's not just creeps but scammers and spammers and the like that target both men and women on dating sites
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: Linux supports ADFS, according to the Wikipedias
[13:30]  * knightwise tries out the app and notices he has incredibly high standards
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: yup.. seen those
[13:31] <knightwise> probably because i'm married to the girl of my dreams
[13:31] <diddledan> knightwise: lucky get!
[13:31] <neuro> Siri?
[13:31] <foobarry> you might wanna uninstall that app knightwise or she might not be happy to find it on your phone
[13:31] <awilkins> diddledan, I've caught myself worrying unduly about that - like when I dated someone with poor english I worried about being scammed... (she was a very nice and intelligent Chemistry PhD from Iraq)
[13:32] <foobarry> i'm wondering if its just easier to boot into riscos and copy files that way...
[13:33] <knightwise> true :) before other single ladies get the wrong impression that i'm "available" :p
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: "Eww, he's Belgian"
[13:33] <awilkins> You should just be able to use mount -t adfs /dev/sdcardthingy mountpoint
[13:34] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: You fool that means he is from the land on Chocolates you just made him more attractive.  D'oh!!!!
[13:34] <awilkins> Chocolate ON WAFFLES
[13:34] <foobarry> awilkins: unknown filesystem or bad superblock
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: nah, it's also the land where the EU has its HQ
[13:34] <foobarry> etc etc
[13:34] <awilkins> foobarry, Maybe it's not *that* ADFS
[13:35] <diddledan> ADFS is Andrew FileSystem, isn't it?
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> no that's afs
[13:35] <diddledan> or have I just pull that one out of my proverb
[13:36] <shauno> riscos should handle fat/fat32 usb sticks just fine, if you want to cut the complications and sneakernet
[13:37] <foobarry> shauno: that sounds better
[13:37] <foobarry> mount the usb within riscOS
[13:38] <knightwise> MartijnVdS: i've been called 'a northern dutchman today
[13:39] <shauno> http://svrsig.org/HowTo.htm looks optimistic (I can't link because of the frameset, but disc connects->rPi on the left shows fat32fs, a web browser, etc.  apparently ethernet should work, usb-wifi shouldn't)
[13:39] <shauno> er, contents, rather
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: By a Frenchman?
[13:42] <foobarry> hmmm adding a usb froze the pi
[13:42] <knightwise> by a "brabander"
[13:42] <foobarry> or at least clicking on it did
[13:45] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: Rare mensen, die Brabanders.
[13:46] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: try connecting a powered USB hub, then connect the USB stick to that
[13:46] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: Pi isn't very good at supplying USB power
[13:47] <foobarry> even to read a usb stick?
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> depends on the stick, but sometimes
[13:51] <foobarry> shauno: any idea how i select the usb drive from teh F12 prompt?
[13:52] <MartijnVdS> Fedora 12?
[13:52] <diddledan> F12 prompt?
[13:52] <foobarry> my longterm memory from 1988 is failing me
[13:52] <shauno> heh, no idea at all.   RiscOS on Pi with Zarch and Pacmania?
[14:09] <awilkins> Woo
[14:10] <foobarry> native
[14:10] <foobarry> such native
[14:10] <foobarry> much fast
[14:10] <diddledan> wow
[14:10] <foobarry> much nostalgic
[14:10] <diddledan> many fast
[14:10] <foobarry> i want gribblys day out
[14:11] <diddledan> oh you already said fast
[14:11] <diddledan> mine is better tho :-p
[14:11] <foobarry> better be careful or i'll end up using riscos more than linux at home
[14:11] <diddledan> EEEEEEEKKKKK
[14:11] <diddledan> yeah, screaming like a girl really helps my macho image
[14:12] <foobarry> hamitron: moved USB to the rear port and more powerz
[14:12] <bigcalm> It's time for chocolate buttons
[14:12] <diddledan> :-o
[14:12] <diddledan> chocolates?!
[14:12] <bigcalm> Shame they aren't Cadburry's
[14:12] <diddledan> grr
[14:12] <diddledan> now you went and ruined it
[14:12] <bigcalm> Xmas choccies
[14:13]  * bigcalm flicks chocolate buttons at diddledan
[14:13]  * neuro has a caramel cup
[14:14] <diddledan> aren't you supposed to eat those?
[14:15] <neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2i3rapblysqobnm/Photo%2015-01-2014%2014%2013%2032.jpg
[14:15] <neuro> win
[14:17] <diddledan> what you doing with my keyboard?!
[14:17] <neuro> dropping ash onto it, probably
[14:17] <diddledan> lol
[14:17] <diplo> looks like a Acer revo keyboard
[14:18] <diddledan> diplo: it's an aluminium apple keyboard
[14:18] <neuro> tis
[14:18] <neuro> a wired full size one, not the wireless cut down one
[14:18] <diddledan> ditto
[14:18] <neuro> probably the best keyboard i've used since the sun type 5
[14:18] <diplo> :)
[14:18] <diddledan> I don't get the point of a wireless one when it's sat 2 inches from the pc
[14:19] <neuro> "cleanliness"
[14:19] <diplo> Cables!
[14:19] <neuro> like, wire free desks and all that, man
[14:19] <diddledan> plus I get the numpad on the wired one
[14:19] <neuro> yeah
[14:19] <diplo> Can hide the transmitter
[14:19] <shauno> the wireless one is pretty cute though
[14:19] <neuro> what transmitter?
[14:19] <neuro> shauno: tis, i have one in the living room for my mac mini that's plugged into the telly
[14:19] <diddledan> yeah, so cleanliness isn't really my strongpoint
[14:19] <bigcalm> It was fun when there were usb hubs in keyboards
[14:19] <neuro> mine either, my desk is a state
[14:19] <diddledan> my desk is a warzone
[14:20] <shauno> there is in the wired variant of this one
[14:20] <neuro> bigcalm: this keyb has unpowered usb2 connectors on either side
[14:20] <bigcalm> neuro: ah, Apple kept doing that then
[14:20] <neuro> so no use for charging an iphone but fine for sticking in a usb drive
[14:20] <diddledan> and a mouse
[14:20] <neuro> and a mouse
[14:21] <neuro> i have a wired mighty mouse here but i unplugged it after i started using the magic trackpad
[14:21] <bigcalm> I can understand mice being wireless - if it's being pushed about
[14:21] <neuro> i just keep it around for emergency's sake
[14:21] <bigcalm> I now use a trackball that happens to be wireless. Not sure of the advantage of that though
[14:21] <neuro> urgh
[14:22] <neuro> i never could get used to trackballs
[14:22] <bigcalm> neuro: it's cured my right wrist mouse RSI
[14:22]  * neuro hugs his trackpad
[14:22] <neuro> so much easier to do stuff
[14:22] <neuro> especially scrolling
[14:22] <bigcalm> Hate trying to play Minecraft with a trackpad
[14:22] <neuro> well, yeah
[14:23] <diddledan> rsi from a mouse. hah. like we believe that story.
[14:23] <bigcalm> Speaking of which
[14:23]  * bigcalm checks in on his chickens
[14:23] <diddledan> ;-)
[14:23] <diddledan> you been doing to much chicken wrangling, that's what's cause your RSI
[14:23] <bigcalm> Heh
[14:24] <bigcalm> I think it was actually slicing up PSDs for several years
[14:24] <diddledan> lol
[14:24] <diddledan> accuracy?
[14:24] <bigcalm> What about it?
[14:24] <diddledan> as in it was worrying about accuracy that caused the RSI?
[14:25] <bigcalm> No, repitition
[14:25] <bigcalm> The clue is in the name ;)
[14:30] <neuro> Last login: Mon Aug 19 08:40:33 2013
[14:30] <neuro> whoops
[14:30] <neuro> finding random ec2 instances for the win
[14:30] <neuro> 105 packages can be updated.
[14:30] <neuro> 50 updates are security updates.
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> neuro: while (apikey = rand()) { try_to_connect() } ?
[14:31] <neuro> errr, no?
[14:31] <diddledan> neuro: "finding"?
[14:31] <diddledan> as in they were lost?
[14:31] <neuro> yeah
[14:31] <neuro> it's been lurking down at the bottom of our instance list
[14:31] <neuro> and i forgot it was there
[14:31] <diddledan> lolz
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> popey: as a btrfs fan, http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/bitrot-and-atomic-cows-inside-next-gen-filesystems/ might interest you
[14:58] <foobarry> i've shagged my centos install
[14:58] <foobarry> accidentally ctrl-c a yum update seems not to be very good idea
[14:59] <neuro> yum-complete-transaction && yum update ... maybe?
[15:00] <foobarry> trying skip-broken
[15:14] <foobarry> argh dependencies
[15:25] <SuperMatt> ttp://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/bitrot-and-atomic-cows-inside-next-gen-filesystems/ ars has a great article today promoting btrfs (to the point where it explains that it's experiments)
[15:25] <SuperMatt> *experimental
[15:26] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: scroll up to 14:54 ;)
[15:27] <SuperMatt> loooools
[15:27] <SuperMatt> I saw it and thought "#ubuntu-uk would love this" so I posted
[15:27] <SuperMatt> didn't think to check if anyone else had posted
[15:27] <MartijnVdS> np :)
[15:28] <foobarry> http://pastebin.com/ZAtmak5X
[15:28] <foobarry> what the heck is happening here?
[15:29] <SuperMatt> you're using yum, that's your first mistake
[15:30] <SuperMatt> you haven't got a funky extra repo, have you?
[15:30] <foobarry> i booted into centos because i didn't want to futz my main install by installing oracle jav
[15:30] <foobarry> a
[15:30] <SuperMatt> understandable
[15:30] <foobarry> nothign too funky
[15:30] <foobarry> but i ctrl-c'd a yum update
[15:31] <SuperMatt> oh
[15:31] <SuperMatt> that might not have been a wise idea
[15:31] <foobarry> should be recoverable though
[15:31] <MartijnVdS> but you'd think it'd be recoverable
[15:31] <MartijnVdS> I mean, it's not the weirdest thing one could do
[15:31] <foobarry> this is why i stopped using fedora 10 years ago
[15:32] <SuperMatt> I stopped using fedora about a week after passing my rhcsa
[15:32] <foobarry> this is centos
[15:32] <SuperMatt> I started using it within that week
[15:32] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: THIS .. IS .. CENTOS ?
[15:32] <foobarry> runnig yum check...fans up to warp speed
[15:33] <popey> nice MartijnVdS
[15:33] <foobarry> i can't access the equallogic web client from any device i own due to lame java
[15:33] <foobarry> i can't tinker with it on my desktop because IBM IMM needs a certain config of java
[15:34] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: VM? :)
[15:34] <foobarry> laptop
[15:34] <foobarry> but vm in future
[15:34] <foobarry> annoyingly
[15:35] <MartijnVdS> no I mean
[15:35] <foobarry> yeah
[15:35] <MartijnVdS> couldn't you use a VM on your desktop to install the correct java in
[15:35] <foobarry> yeah, its a necessary silly evil
[15:35] <foobarry> or boot into windows
[15:36] <diddledan> yeah boot into windows! :-p
[15:37] <diddledan> I feel like running my own DNSen
[15:37] <diddledan> someone slap me
[15:38]  * MartijnVdS slaps diddledan WAKE UP
[15:38] <diddledan> huh? what?
[15:38] <diddledan> was I having a nightmare again?
[15:39] <foobarry> oracle java is via repo or website only now?
[15:39] <diddledan> website only afaik
[15:53] <foobarry> now firefox java plugin no existy in centos :SSSSSSS
[15:53] <foobarry> grrr
[15:59] <TwistedLucidity> IcedTea?
[15:59] <foobarry> needs to be java i think
[15:59] <foobarry> oracles one
[15:59] <TwistedLucidity> Ah
[15:59] <foobarry> given up, booted the windows :(
[16:00] <TwistedLucidity> Not "teh Windows"!?!
[16:09] <bigcalm> I've been stuck in Windows all week due to nvidia sillyness :(
[16:10] <bigcalm> Maybe I should ask for help earlier in the evening this time
[16:12] <popey> you should test #ubuntu ☻
[16:14] <diddledan> #ubuntu is a dangerous place for the uninitiated
[16:15] <foobarry> more high volume like a motorway
[16:15] <foobarry> like trying to cross one...
[16:15] <diddledan> a fast moving motorway rather than a jammed one
[16:16] <bigcalm> I'll give it a go. Later...
[16:16] <bigcalm> Is it as friendly as here?
[16:17] <bigcalm> Is anywhere as friendly as here?
[16:17] <diddledan> it's... busy
[16:18] <bigcalm> I'll tinker with a live usb tonight. Try and get the system so that I can ssh into it once more
[16:18] <diddledan> I guess it does what it says on the tin. you go there to get a problem fixed rather than go there 'cos it's a fun place to be
[16:18] <diddledan> kinda like the crematoria
[16:19] <bigcalm> o.O
[16:20] <bigcalm> Status: Shipped
[16:20]  * bigcalm wiggles with excitement
[16:20] <bigcalm> As expected, origin is China
[16:20]  * bigcalm twiddles thumbs
[16:21] <diddledan> what was it you were ordering?
[16:21] <bigcalm> But now I have a new page to refresh every day
[16:21] <popey> new laptop
[16:21] <bigcalm> diddledan: new laptop
[16:21] <diddledan> ah yes
[16:21] <bigcalm> diddledan: http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-7537/pd?oc=cn75305&model_id=inspiron-15-7537
[16:21] <diddledan> indium has gone awol
[16:22] <diddledan> oops
[16:22] <diddledan> sorry wrong window
[16:22] <bigcalm> Last time I ordered a laptop from Dell, they discontinued the line the day after I received the order :|
[16:23] <foobarry> \o/
[16:26] <popey> heh
[16:28] <diddledan> why does the poo hit the spinny thing just as I think I'm able to relax for the evening?!
[16:29] <DJones> bigcalm: Last time I ordered from Dell, the next day they announced that all new machines would come with Windows XP instead of Vista & wouldn't change my order
[16:30] <DJones> Insisted on delivering with Vista
[16:31] <bigcalm> How does one check the integrity of an HDD and/or RAID1?
[16:32] <bigcalm> davmor2: ETA of new laptop is 22nd Jan. Just in time for the LUG :D
[16:33] <davmor2> bigcalm: nice n4 should be here friday :)
[16:34] <bigcalm> Yay
[16:35] <SuperMatt> http://www.catlateraldamage.com/play I think some of you lot will enjoy this
[16:36] <SuperMatt> though I can't get it running in ff or chrome
[16:36] <SuperMatt> on linux
[16:36] <diddledan> it needs the unity web-player
[16:36] <SuperMatt> ah, that'd do it
[16:36] <bigcalm> Oh, I saw some gifs of this on tumblr. Wondered if I'd remember to play it
[16:37] <SuperMatt> I didn't read too much about it
[16:39] <bigcalm> Amusing
[16:39] <bigcalm> I lost
[16:39] <SuperMatt> d'awww
[16:40] <SuperMatt> I must remember to download the standalone version tonight
[17:02] <Seeker`> can anyone make it 1830 please?
[17:03] <bigcalm> I'll settle for 1800
[17:04] <diddledan> 25 minutes for me
[17:04] <bigcalm> Arse
[17:06] <Seeker`> ?
[17:11] <bigcalm> 49 minutes and I shouldn't be counting
[17:11] <Seeker`> not going down to sub-minute resolution? :P
[17:12] <Seeker`> 4635
[17:12] <Seeker`> 4630
[17:31] <davmor2> bigcalm: liar liar pants on fire, I know you you'll work way passed 18:00 cause you can't help yourself :)
[17:32] <bigcalm> davmor2: not something that pleases me
[17:32] <bigcalm> Is there a way of setting environment variables for all crontab jobs in a file rather than having to add them to each line?
[17:32] <davmor2> bigcalm: you wouldn't know what to do with yourself if you didn't have some work to do ;)
[17:33] <bigcalm> davmor2: not true, tonight I will be trying to get my workstating to be useable again
[17:34] <bigcalm> Ah, it's implementation dependant. It'll work on test (Ubuntu) but will fail on production (RedHat)
[17:47] <bigcalm> Dave2: sorry you almost burnt yourself
[17:48] <Dave2> har
[17:48] <davmor2> bigcalm: and then ofcourse you'll have to check that all the code is in sync and then you just remembered this little job you could do while you have your computer up........
[18:33] <DJones> Damm, ME, not Vista
[19:30] <bigcalm> Time to tackle nvidia once more
[19:45] <smittix> Evening all.
[20:22] <bigcalm> Is it possible to get a complete list of installed packages from a machine that has been booted via the live usb?
[20:25] <shauno> you mean like the system is mounted, but it's not the booted system?
[20:26] <shauno> something like dpkg --admindir=/mnt/target/var/lib/dpkg --get-selections should be a start
[20:27] <ali1234> you can go one further than that, and get a list of every file that has been modified too
[20:28] <ali1234> really though, at this point why not just reinstall?
[20:33] <bigcalm> I am going to reinstall, but I want a list of packages that I have installed currently so that I will be reminded of what to reinstall
[20:36] <bigcalm> shauno: ta
[20:38] <ali1234> i just install stuff as i need it... prevents my machine from getting filled with junk :)
[20:39] <bigcalm> Always a good idea, but I do need a few select packages from the get-go so that I can be productive in the morning
[21:14] <MartijnVdS> vim
[21:14] <diddledan> eek
[21:15] <popey> ooh
[21:15] <diddledan> aah
[21:15] <diddledan> any more monosyllabic noises?
[21:15] <MartijnVdS> augh!
[21:15] <diddledan> wee
[21:17] <diddledan> you know meet the parents trilogy. is anybody else as miffed as I am they they missed the chance to use the phrase "yippie kye yay Martha Focker!"?
[21:18] <diddledan> it's problems like these that keep me awake at night with palpitations
[21:21] <foobarry> can't get any games running on this native risc os :(
[21:21] <MartijnVdS> what's the error?
[21:26] <foobarry> module XX is not 32-bit compatible
[21:27] <ali1234> yeah
[21:27] <ali1234> you can't run 16 bit software on x86_64 either
[21:27] <ali1234> i would imagine it's a similar thing
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> oh wow, x86-64 *disables* that? I though it was just another mode on top of the existing ones, and it could switch back to virtual-8086 for a process?
[21:30] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit_compatibility_mode#OPMODES
[21:30] <ali1234> no
[21:30] <ali1234> if it's in 32 bit mode it can run 16 bit code, if it's in 64 bit mode it can only run 32 bit code
[21:30] <foobarry> gonna go to bed and think about this tomorrow
[21:30] <ali1234> well, 64/32 and not 16
[21:31] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: apparently, it *can* run 16-bit code, but only in protected mode
[21:31] <MartijnVdS> but I guess not much code is written for that
[21:31] <MartijnVdS> (16-bit protected mode on 64-bit OS)
[21:32] <MartijnVdS> can the CPU exit long mode, go into compat mode, run a 16-bit task in v86 mode, then switch back to long mode?
[21:32] <ali1234> no idea
[21:33] <ali1234> completely pausing the kernel probably isn't a good idea anyway
[21:33] <ali1234> i mean you'd effectively be rebooting if you did that
[21:35] <ali1234> suspend to disk -> reboot to dos -> run 16 bit code -> reboot to linux -> restore from disk
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: maybe those virtualization instructions can help :)
[21:35] <ali1234> no, it doesn't even work in virtualization mode
[21:36] <MartijnVdS> "According to the VT-x spec, guest OSes cannot operate in real mode. Using a Linux loader to load a guest OS is impossible because it starts in real mode. To solve this problem, a vmxloader was written for VT-x guests. This loader uses the VM86 mode of the processor to run the OS boot loader."
[21:36] <ali1234> you need a software emulator like dosbox
[21:36] <MartijnVdS> AMD SVM, on the other hand, supports real-mode for guests, so it does not need the VM86 mode of the hvmloader.
[21:36] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: so it does support vm86 mode, which can run DOS fine :)
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> (vt-x that is)
[21:49] <diddledan> I always understood that hardware virtualisation instructions allowed real mode else the virtual bios wouldn't work
[21:50] <diddledan> and the os' bootloader
[21:50] <diddledan> all those run in real mode
[21:50] <diddledan> only in efi do they not
[21:51] <diddledan> the bootloader (grub)'s job is to drop from realmode to protected mode and initialise the kernel
[21:52] <diddledan> the chainload feature retains realmode and reassigns the code execution pointer to the windows (e.g.) bootloader
[22:16] <diddledan> oh what fun: "[X - the recommended app] only works with Windows 2000/XP. For Windows Vista please use [Y]" further "for MacOS or Linux use [Z - which hasn't been updated since 2005]"


[02:13] <roasted> :D
[03:17] <ThomasCorwin> JonathanD:  Well first, i'm sorry that i will be using the channel the wrong way, but could you possibly contact e via email: tacorwin (at) outlook (dot) com
[03:17] <ThomasCorwin> me8
[03:17] <ThomasCorwin> *
[04:30] <roasted> :D
[12:21] <waltman> Morning.
[12:21] <JonathanD> Hey.
[12:21] <JonathanD> Who is ThomasCorwin.
[12:22] <JonathanD> Oh
[12:22] <JonathanD> Thats the "doing a presentation near pittsburg" guy.
[12:33] <JonathanD> Wonder if he was really looking for me, or for jedijf, since you've communicated with him more jedijf.
[12:35] <waltman> The name sounds familiar.
[12:37] <JonathanD> He emailed the ubuntu pa list a while ago.
[12:38] <JonathanD> About doing some public "teach about ubuntu" thing.
[12:52] <waltman> oh, THAT guy
[12:55] <waltman> pleia2: Today is Penguin Awareness Day.  Penguin day or no.
[13:06] <waltman> Orchestra conductors?
[13:06] <JonathanD> only if they bring the Orchestra
[13:06] <waltman> figure skating announcers?
[13:06] <JonathanD> What I would do, actually.
[13:06] <JonathanD> Free for any penguins, and your not-paid normal admission fee can still be used towards a year pass.
[13:07] <JonathanD> Incentive to sell passes.
[13:08] <waltman> I don't think I need to be too concerned about pleia2's awareness of penguins.
[14:51] <jedijf> JonathanD: he's *all* yours
[15:40] <JonathanD> I don't mind sharing.
[15:58] <roasted> :D
[17:07] <pleia2> penguins <3
[19:55] <roasted> hello!
[19:55] <roasted> someone give me their opinion on a few pending storage models I'm looking at before my head explodes
[19:55] <roasted> 12.04 headless server, dedicated OS drive, for storage I'm looking at...
[19:56] <roasted> 4x2TB WD Reds @ 500 dollars flat in RAID 6 configuration, OR 2x3TB Seagate HDDs in RAID 1 @ 280 dollars.
[19:56] <roasted> (I've also cosnidered not doing RAID 1 and just rsync data from one HDD to another nightly in an effort to restore a higher level of "backup" vs redundancy.
[19:56] <roasted> )
[20:07] <ChinnoDog> You can do better than rsync for your backup. Use Crashplan to backup to a local hard drive. You don't need to pay for cloud storage to use the app and the external hard disk doesn't need to be fast.
[20:08] <roasted> What advantages would crashplan give me over rsync?
[20:09] <ChinnoDog> compressed deduped backups in real time
[20:09] <roasted> er - and rsync doesn't support that?
[20:09] <ChinnoDog> They aren't real time and you can't support multiple levels of backups easily
[20:10] <roasted> well, even still, the point is the hdd's wouldn't be raid'd
[20:10] <roasted> but drive B would serve as a backup to drive A
[20:10] <roasted> leaving A running by itself, so if it dies I WOULD be offline (whcih is why rsync would be nice beecause then I can put drive B in A's spot and be running in minutes by changing the mount point)
[20:11] <roasted> RMA the failed drive, get the new one in, put in drive B's spot, and rsync accordingy.
[20:11] <roasted> It's the best combination of backups vs redundancy I can find, even though it's not real time redundant much at all.
[20:11] <roasted> but the 500 dollar price tag is unreal to justify. I have my first child on the way. I just can't stomach dumping 500 on hard drives for my home server. :(
[20:12] <roasted> but I definitely need more space and I definitely want some sort of backup or redundancy
[20:18] <ChinnoDog> My backup plan if the data drive dies is to go around the corner to Microcenter and get a new hard drive. If the apartment burns down I'll get my backup from Crashplan central.
[20:19] <roasted> So you're not a big RAID guy?
[20:23] <ChinnoDog> Only raid 0. :-) My home server doesn't have the uptime requirements of a corporate environment nor the IT budget for parts that would go with that.
[20:24] <ChinnoDog> Quality hard drives that are mounted and ventilated properly do not die very frequently.
[20:27] <roasted> yeah, I hear you.
[20:27] <ChinnoDog> On the other hand, 15k RPM SCSI drives mounted in the upper 1/3 of a rack in a data center can get mightly toasty and have much higher usage than a disk at home. Multiply the number of disks in the data center by the failure rate in this environment and using RAID is a good idea so that you aren't constantly putting out fires.
[20:27] <roasted> Yeah, but corporate environments also have corporate budgets.
[20:27] <roasted> Plus if my server is offline, I don't lose money. I just gain a level of frustration.
[20:28] <roasted> I just want to fuss with my server as little as possible, which is why RAID 6 or something looked appealing to me.
[20:28] <roasted> But there IS a level of added functionality that comes from changing Drive B's mount point to Drive A, in the event Drive A dies.
[20:29] <roasted> I can be up and running in a minute.
[20:29] <roasted> Not to mention the fact that doing daily rsync's allows me to pull up data off the server in the event I ruined said file on my computer.
[20:29] <roasted> eh
[20:31] <ChinnoDog> Not using RAID is less expensive than using it. The cost of a replacement drive in even one years time that matches the size of the other volumes will be much less.
[20:31] <ChinnoDog> I have a slow USB 1.5TB drive I use for backups
[20:32] <roasted> But in my case, I'm debating between RAID 1 mirror or no mirror and rsync, however we're still talking 2x3TB HDDs.
[20:32] <roasted> So both situations cost the same.
[20:32] <roasted> I'm just wondering if a mirror makes sense, or if utilizing rsync (which removes a degree of real time redundancy, but grants me a level of backup protection) outweights the need for a raid mirror


[21:19] <balloons> what's the best way to wait until a dbus object no longer exists?
[21:19] <balloons> elopio, Letozaf_, sorry thought I would ask in here ^^
[21:20] <elopio> balloons: I don't know. Which dbus object?
[21:21] <Letozaf_> balloons, yeah I always wonder if I am asking in the right channel :-P
[21:21] <balloons> elopio, we drag from the bottom edge and grab the flickable. We want to select the resulting page and interact with it once the animation is done
[21:22] <elopio> balloons: so it's a custom proxy object? then wait_until_destroyed.
[21:22] <balloons> elopio, thank you.. I couldn't remember that'
[21:22] <elopio> np


[00:33] <smartguyz> need help setting up wireshark in ubuntu....?
[00:34] <Hobbsee> sudo apt-get install wireshark; sudo wireshark?
[00:34] <Hobbsee> also, you probably want #ubuntu
[00:35] <smartguyz> thanks...
[00:54]  * Hobbsee shakes fist at rss-glx, and declares victory.
[00:59] <Hobbsee> and uploaded.  One armel build failure fixed.
[01:43] <smartguyz> anyone have ubuntu mobile
[01:44] <smartguyz> does it work on older pocket pc v5.0 devices???
[16:51] <DNis> hi
[16:51] <DNis> lastests ubuntu-mid are live filesystems now ?
[16:52] <DNis> i'm talking about images