[03:40] <TheMuso> ./c
[08:42] <Fudge> TheMuso  is ubuntu bug 886700 spewing errors because pulse is not running at the right place?
[08:42] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 886700 in alsa-driver "[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel, playback] Playback problem" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886700


[04:15] <mrgoodcat> date change
[12:26] <mrgoodcat> I can't tell if it's twisted or sqlalchemy but something is giving me a giant headache
[12:31] <wolfger> morning
[12:32] <brousch> mrgoodcat: Um, do those even work together?
[12:33] <brousch> I recall twisted core working with sqlalchemy recently, but not all of sqlalchemy
[12:33] <mrgoodcat> not really
[12:33] <brousch> not all of twisted I mean
[12:33] <mrgoodcat> its more of a headache than its worth clearly
[12:33] <brousch> or was it sqlalchemy core?
[12:33] <mrgoodcat> no i'm using sqlalchemy protocols too
[12:33] <mrgoodcat> er twisted
[12:34] <mrgoodcat> gah
[12:34] <mrgoodcat> forget everything i just said
[12:34] <brousch> Ah, this is what I'm thinking of https://pypi.python.org/pypi/alchimia
[12:34] <mrgoodcat> oh cool
[12:34] <mrgoodcat> yes i am using the sqlalchemy core
[12:34] <mrgoodcat> i'm going to stop though
[12:35] <mrgoodcat> i'm going to switch to twisted.enterprise.adbapi while its still early enough to do that
[13:03] <mrgoodcat> wish twisted supported python3
[13:44] <ColonelPanic001> DGS is bad about not reminding me of games
[13:44] <ColonelPanic001> and so I forget
[13:46] <brousch> I just leave the tab open in my browser and check it regularly
[13:52] <cmaloney> Good morning
[13:53] <cmaloney> Yeah, I check my DGS from time to time
[13:53] <cmaloney> I know brousch is taken his turn likely 24 hours ago
[13:54] <brousch> I don't tend to go long stretches except at night or when I'm driving
[13:55] <cmaloney> I do when I'm working. :)
[13:55] <mrgoodcat> stretches of what? not checking
[13:55] <brousch> Mobile reminds me, and computer has tab up
[13:55] <brousch> mrgoodcat: right
[13:55] <mrgoodcat> wish there was a way to learn go without getting your ass kicked over and over
[13:56] <wolfger> I don't think learning works like that.
[13:56] <cmaloney> Learning is pretty much a series of ass-kickings.
[13:57] <mrgoodcat> lol
[13:57] <mrgoodcat> i know
[13:57] <brousch> Oh shoot, I forgot handicap
[13:57] <mrgoodcat> this is my first game with a person
[13:58] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Don't worry. I'm pretty low-level as well
[13:58] <cmaloney> brousch is going to be the first person in here to hit 1dan
[13:58] <cmaloney> mark my words
[13:59] <brousch> So few people are ranked
[13:59] <cmaloney> Yeah, the ramking system is similar to the chess ranking system
[13:59] <cmaloney> pretty impenetrable until you hit tournament-range
[14:00] <mrgoodcat> oh good. at least brouch picked a small board for my first game. cmaloney went full-size
[14:00] <cmaloney> I went with a 13x13 board
[14:00] <mrgoodcat> also, i have no idea what to do in either of these games lol
[14:00] <mrgoodcat> s/full-size/bigger
[14:00] <cmaloney> I thought you'd played go before?
[14:00] <mrgoodcat> yea
[14:00] <mrgoodcat> i have
[14:00] <mrgoodcat> just not much
[14:00] <mrgoodcat> and with a computer only
[14:00] <cmaloney> Well, brousch will teach you the capturing game
[14:01] <cmaloney> and I'll teach you territory.
[14:01] <mrgoodcat> oh and some random dudes on the internet. but i don't count them as real people because i never talked to them
[14:01] <mrgoodcat> and got my ass handed to me
[14:01] <cmaloney> Yeah, computer opponents are pretty focused
[14:02] <cmaloney> whereas human opponents can see a broader picture
[14:02] <cmaloney> ok, head-down. see you on the other side.
[14:02] <brousch> mrgoodcat: Do you want comments as we go?
[14:04] <mrgoodcat> i think that would be helpful
[14:04] <mrgoodcat> but keep in mind that i've only ever played a computer and only a few times so i'm still pretty shaky on terms and stuff like that
[14:05] <brousch> Don't worry, I make up my own terms since I can never remember the foreign ones
[14:06] <mrgoodcat> lol
[14:08] <wolfger> woot
[14:08] <mrgoodcat> on dgs where do you typically go to see if you have games waiting? I've been going to status but scrolling down is hard
[14:09] <wolfger> OK, I just made an account on dgs if anybody wants to kick me around. I think I've played Go before. Years ago.
[14:10] <brousch> I go to Status. What do you have to scroll past?
[14:10] <brousch> wolfger: name?
[14:12] <mrgoodcat> there are a bunch of messages
[14:12] <mrgoodcat> just marked them all as read to make them go away
[14:12] <mrgoodcat> tournament updates
[14:13] <mrgoodcat> as if i'm masochistic enough to join a tournament
[14:14] <brousch> Ah, right
[14:14] <brousch> Once they're read it's not bad
[14:15] <brousch> That configuration you used on the left is a good one, but I have no figured out how to use it well yet
[14:15] <brousch> Good players use it against me
[14:15] <wolfger> <- name  (brousch)
[14:16] <mrgoodcat> bottom left?
[14:18] <brousch> Yes, the stones separated by 1,2 spaces
[14:18] <brousch> I don't know how to use that though
[14:19] <mrgoodcat> idk you said to spread out but it seems smart to not spread them too far just in case one can help the other in a pinch
[14:19] <mrgoodcat> i'm probably thinking about it all wrong but i guess that's how you learn
[14:19] <brousch> right
[14:20] <brousch> No, it's a balance
[14:20] <brousch> I assume finding the right balance takes decades
[14:24] <mrgoodcat> brousch is a lot faster than cmaloney
[14:24] <brousch> hah, cmaloney playes 2 moves/day
[14:25] <brousch> "work" he whines
[14:25] <brousch> mrgoodcat: Your last move was better than I gave you credit for
[14:26] <mrgoodcat> the top is now fairly well protected as far as i can see
[14:27] <brousch> Yeah, that made it much harder to get around the back
[14:27] <mrgoodcat> that was less of a retreat and more of a guard. like the diagonal pawn configuration in chess. at least in my head. we'll see how it plays you
[14:27] <mrgoodcat> out*
[14:28] <brousch> I see that now
[14:29] <brousch> To get the top of that structure I need a lot of busy work now
[14:32] <mrgoodcat> we're playing a pretty symmetric game
[14:32] <brousch> It happens. You get long runs of diagonal and straight sometimes
[14:33] <brousch> Those early singles sometimes break it up
[14:34] <mrgoodcat> you said "mobile notifies me". what app do you use for dgs?
[14:36] <brousch> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mco.prj.app.bwgofree with https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mco.prj.srv.bwdgs
[14:36] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/rEwujE - BW-Go Free - Android Apps on Google Play
[14:37] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/i0DLf1 - BW-DGS - Android Apps on Google Play
[14:37] <brousch> Actually i use the paid, but it doesn't matter
[14:37] <brousch> mrgoodcat: Do you know about "eyes"?
[14:40] <mrgoodcat> a little
[14:40] <mrgoodcat> i know if you have 2 eyes in a chain it's essentially uncapturable
[14:40] <brousch> Not essentially, it is invulnerable
[14:40] <mrgoodcat> but i'm unclear on what constitutes an eye. can it be only one free space? or if there's multiple spaces is it not an eye?
[14:41] <brousch> It is a completely enclosed (by all your stones) space
[14:41] <mrgoodcat> ok. well that clears it up a little
[14:41] <brousch> You can get away with 1 corner of it not being yours
[14:41] <mrgoodcat> I think i even understand why it's invulnerable
[14:42] <brousch> You have space in your upper right corner to make 2 eyes, so it would be very difficult for me to attack it
[14:42] <mrgoodcat> it would be suicide to play in an eye, but if you had surrounded the entire structure it would be legal because you would capture the whole thing, but if there are 2 eyes there are 2 suicide moves so no way possible to play them both and suicide without capture is illegal
[14:43] <mrgoodcat> unless i missed something
[14:44] <brousch> Correct
[14:44] <brousch> So with 2 eyes, it's impossible to surround them both
[14:44] <mrgoodcat> can an eye be against a side/corner?
[14:45] <brousch> In your current structure, g8, h789, j789 could all become eyes. So if I attack I will try to disrupt that
[14:45] <brousch> yes
[14:46] <brousch> The good players can look at a structure like yours and determine whether it's possible to capture it even as early as now. I am not that good
[14:47] <mrgoodcat> i don't feel all that confident in my ability to protect it even if a skilled player would consider it impossible to take
[14:48] <mrgoodcat> it still depends on me making the right moves
[14:48] <brousch> Right
[14:48] <mrgoodcat> or not the wrong ones anyways
[14:49] <mrgoodcat> for instance on that last one i was unsure if i should have gone at h7 instead, but then you could have captured h5. I don't yet have the skill/experience to determine what is a worthwhile sacrifice
[14:50] <brousch> I think you made the right move there. I forced you into it
[14:50] <brousch> It strengthened your structure and you lost no stones
[14:51] <brousch> This move for you now will take some thought
[14:52] <mrgoodcat> i'd say you are very unlikely to win this battle
[14:59] <brousch> I probably wouldn't even try against anyone else ;)
[14:59] <mrgoodcat> lol
[15:01] <mrgoodcat> one advantage of playing with a computer is that i don't have to wait for it to make moves
[15:02] <brousch> I think you've secured it properly now
[15:03] <brousch> Yes, I can't stop you from making 2 eyes in there. Well done
[15:03] <mrgoodcat> that was the move i had in mind a while ago but i had to stop you from infiltrating first
[15:03] <mrgoodcat> and thank you
[15:05] <mrgoodcat> move 23 was a mistake on my part for sure
[15:05] <brousch> It took me a while to learn a move like that. My instinct is to protect the outer wall, lik f9
[15:06] <brousch> But that gives the opponent a chance to get behind
[15:07] <mrgoodcat> lol i just played f9
[15:08] <mrgoodcat> i'm unsure if i should be following through on the eyes or leaving the structure as it is
[15:09] <brousch> F9 was not necessary. It was essentially a no-point space for anyone
[15:09] <brousch> Unless you are planning to attack me ;)
[15:19] <wolfger> Well, why would anybody not attack you? ;-)
[15:20] <brousch> Right, he should be thinking about that now
[15:20] <brousch> wolfger: Are you going to play?
[15:24] <wolfger> Hadn't noticed the invites. I assumed I would be notified.
[15:36] <brousch> No, it doesn't send emails
[15:36] <brousch> You have to manually check it for everything
[15:36] <brousch> It's like 20 year old web
[15:40] <brousch> You have to clock on "status" to see any updates of any kind
[15:44] <brousch> wolfger goes right for the battle
[15:49] <cmaloney> It'll notify you but the notifications are buried in the interface somewhere.
[16:08] <wolfger> brousch: it wasn't a battle until you decided to come at me. :-)
[16:09] <wolfger> I was peacefully exercising my right to keep and bear arms is all. Didn't infringe on any of your liberties. That was your move.
[17:03] <wolfger> Ah, found the Android app. Much nicer than the website.
[17:12] <brousch> Yes
[17:13] <brousch> 19x19 boards are little cramped depending on your phone size
[18:05] <mrgoodcat> .echo test
[18:05] <bookiebot> test
[18:05] <wolfger> test
[18:05] <mrgoodcat> bookiebot: where were you on those usc notices?
[18:06] <mrgoodcat> http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2371-1/ USN-2371-1: Exuberant Ctags vulnerability
[18:06] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/eJrv3K - USN-2371-1: Exuberant Ctags vulnerability | Ubuntu
[18:06] <mrgoodcat> http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2370-1/ USN-2370-1: APT vulnerability
[18:06] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/jsWGtr - USN-2370-1: APT vulnerability | Ubuntu
[18:15] <_stink_> exuberant ctags
[18:15] <_stink_> hah
[18:23] <mrgoodcat> brousch: i think you're stronger in this one
[18:23] <brousch> The power of foam!
[18:23] <wolfger> foam?
[18:23] <brousch> That's what I call it when the stones are connected diagonally
[18:24] <brousch> Has little holes in between like foam
[18:24] <mrgoodcat> it gives you good defense
[18:27] <brousch> Right, you always have 2 ways to connect
[18:28] <brousch> So you go in one part, I connect the other and suddenly have a 3 piece structure with ~6 degrees of freedom
[18:29] <mrgoodcat> >degrees of freedom
[18:29] <mrgoodcat> what is this?
[18:30] <brousch> That's how many ways you can expand your structure. When a stone has 0 degrees of freedom it is dead
[18:30] <brousch> "surrounded"
[18:31] <brousch> A stone by itself in the middle of the board has 4 degrees of freedom
[18:31] <wolfger> ah. I've been seeing it called liberties
[18:32] <brousch> Could be
[18:33] <brousch> liberties seems more common
[18:33] <mrgoodcat> i'm less sure what to do now
[18:35] <brousch> Hm, I guess I would try to secure that lower left corner
[18:35] <brousch> My stones will be difficult to attack, but if you can defend the corner you'll have good territory
[18:37] <brousch> Now i have to decide whether to fight your defense-building or clean out your crud in the upper left
[18:38] <mrgoodcat> decisions decisions
[18:38] <mrgoodcat> hope i havent been a boring newbie
[18:39] <brousch> No, you are challenging, and this game is close
[18:39] <brousch> Revealing my thoughts makes it harder for me
[18:40] <_stink_> do we really want brousch's thought to be revealed?
[18:40] <_stink_> s
[18:40] <brousch> mrgoodcat: Do you see the key to your success in holding the corner?
[18:40] <mrgoodcat> yea i do
[18:41] <mrgoodcat> your center structure is pretty well impenetrable though
[18:41] <brousch> I'm not sure it's possible. Too many moves out
[18:41] <mrgoodcat> yea you'd have way to long to defend it
[18:41] <mrgoodcat> too*
[18:41] <mrgoodcat> this game is going to be over soon i think
[18:41] <mrgoodcat> over half the board is locked
[18:42] <brousch> Right, your hope is to hold that lower left corner and maybe you'll have more territory than I do. Right now is the critical fight for the corner
[18:43] <brousch> If i can keep your two parts separated, I will win. If you can connect them, you will probably get the corner
[18:44] <brousch> 2 parts being your c3,4 and 2d,e structures
[18:44] <mrgoodcat> unfortunately for you, i think i'm advantaged here
[18:44] <brousch> yes
[18:45] <mrgoodcat> i'm trying to think of ways for you to stop me connecting them and i'm running short of ideas. you don't have enough time to get around them. My android game tells me when spaces are untakeable based on the number of moves. wish DGS had similar functionality
[18:45] <brousch> Essentially, I need to beat on you just enough that you cannot form 2 eyes
[18:46] <mrgoodcat> you may be able to do that. the best you can hope for in this corner is probably a break-even. but that still gives you the majority of the board
[18:47] <brousch> The thing is, if I prevent you from getting 2 eyes, the rest of the stones are dead
[18:48] <brousch> I had to play a lot of games before I was convinced of that
[18:50] <mrgoodcat> but good luck with that. i think i'm still significantly stronger in this corner
[18:50] <mrgoodcat> if i beat you though it will only be because you were helping me
[18:51] <mrgoodcat> even if i salvage a close defeat
[18:52] <mrgoodcat> intense finish though
[18:57] <mrgoodcat> brousch: you're making an "up" arrow
[18:57] <mrgoodcat> are those officially eyes?
[19:00] <brousch> I have 0 complete eyes on the board. For you, 1a is an eye and c1 or c2 is an eye
[19:01] <brousch> Now I have 1 eye on the right
[19:02] <brousch> So you have that lower left corner, but it's only 3 pieces of territory
[19:02] <brousch> Remember that's what counts in scoring
[19:05] <mrgoodcat> c1,2 is an eye? i was under the impression an eye could only be one space
[19:06] <brousch> It will be an eye once you fill either of those spaces
[19:06] <brousch> It's not technically an eye yet, but damn near impossible to attack.
[19:08] <brousch> I would e1 f2 e3, then c1 and then have you go to sleep so I could take c2
[19:10] <brousch> mrgoodcat: Are you thinking about the upper left?
[19:10] <mrgoodcat> yea a little
[19:10] <mrgoodcat> but it looks pretty impossible atm
[19:11] <mrgoodcat> i was more thinking about the possiblity of salvaging some territory there
[19:11] <brousch> You cannot get 2 eyes there, so whatever you play will become my prisoners
[19:11] <brousch> I always find that hard to accept though
[19:12] <mrgoodcat> i'm running out of ideas
[19:12] <mrgoodcat> how do you determine when to end the game?
[19:13] <brousch> Heh, usually when the other guy tells me "we're done here" and I convince myself he is right
[19:14] <mrgoodcat> lol well you're the other guy now
[19:15] <brousch> Technically they want to you to close all the holes, but you can mark stones as dead without that in the end-game
[19:15] <brousch> The bottom middle/right is pretty loose. We should play that out to see how many spots you can keep there
[19:15] <mrgoodcat> if its obvious they can't be saved
[19:15] <mrgoodcat> like the top left
[19:16] <mrgoodcat> do you count the stones themselves as territory?
[19:16] <mrgoodcat> or just the spaces?
[19:16] <brousch> No, you are connected to the 2 eye bottom left, so you could gain some territory
[19:16] <brousch> just the spaces
[19:16] <mrgoodcat> no i'm not saying its obvious, i'm saying if it is obvious, they can be marked dead
[19:17] <mrgoodcat> i was just repeating what you said to show i understood
[19:17] <brousch> Right, the upper left will be marked as dead at end-game
[19:19] <brousch> Hm, that's actually a very troublesome move for me
[19:20] <brousch> I didn't realize how vulnerable my 1 eye lower right is
[19:20] <mrgoodcat> that was the intended effect :)
[19:25] <mrgoodcat> not sure if you aren't making a move because i've troubled you or because you have real work to do....
[19:25] <brousch> I was thinking hard
[19:26] <brousch> Found the simple solution ;)
[19:27] <mrgoodcat> darn
[19:27] <mrgoodcat> now i'm stuck just trying to contain it the best i can
[19:27] <mrgoodcat> wish i had a notification for when my turn comes
[19:28] <mrgoodcat> settled for a 5s auto-refresh on the status page
[19:28] <mrgoodcat> going to have to make a chrome app for this maybe
[19:28]  * mrgoodcat is one of those impatient ones
[19:30] <brousch> heh
[19:32] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: That is not a site that should be reloaded often
[19:32] <cmaloney> You'll probably overload it.
[19:32] <mrgoodcat> orly
[19:32] <mrgoodcat> i'll keep that in mind
[19:32] <mrgoodcat> switched it to 1min
[19:32] <cmaloney> Tehre is an email notification you can receive
[19:32] <cmaloney> and the android client can give you a notification as well
[19:33] <brousch> mrgoodcat: I mist say this part has not gone as I saw it
[19:33] <brousch> Very interesting
[19:33] <mrgoodcat> thanks
[19:34] <mrgoodcat> i assume thats a good thing anyways...
[19:34] <mrgoodcat> also thanks cmaloney
[19:34] <brousch> It's always interesting when an opponent does not think like me
[19:34] <brousch> Lot's of "oh crap, I didn't even think about that"
[19:35] <cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, I know the feeling.
[19:36] <mrgoodcat> brousch: it seems like you were a little too confident in your big fortress in the middle.
[19:36] <brousch> Yes, too much foam ;)
[19:38] <mrgoodcat> very interesting late game
[19:39] <mrgoodcat> developments in a lot of areas
[19:40] <brousch> Yeah, it kind of bothers me when the good guys go "we're done" when there's still a lot to play. I usually ask them to play it out with me to see what develops
[19:41] <mrgoodcat> i think this game is over though. i can't get your f1,2 without you connecting it to your 2 eye bottom right. the top right is mine, the top left is yours, the bottom left is mine
[19:42] <mrgoodcat> now that you actually have 2 real eyes in your middle structure
[19:42] <mrgoodcat> you also can't stop me from connecting the bottom left and top right structures
[19:43] <mrgoodcat> in fact i just did
[19:44] <brousch> But I can make you fill in territory to do so
[19:44] <brousch> Each time I do that without losing a stone is basically a point
[19:47] <brousch> A very close game. I will not win by much more than komi
[19:47] <mrgoodcat> a lot closer than my other online games. they were on bigger boards though
[19:47] <mrgoodcat> and i didn't have help
[19:48] <brousch> now we have to mark dead stones
[19:48] <mrgoodcat> i'd be interested in playing in person. i don't like waiting for online turn based games
[19:48] <brousch> Yeah, finishing a game like this in 1 day is rare online
[19:48] <brousch> maybe during tournaments
[19:49] <cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
[19:49] <bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Tres Brujas by The Sword on Warp Riders
[19:49] <mrgoodcat> what is the color code here?
[19:49] <mrgoodcat> on the finish
[19:50]  * cmaloney <3s The Sword - Warp Riders
[19:50] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I have a Goban if you want to come over and play some time
[19:50] <mrgoodcat> i'm not quite sure how this is supposed to work
[19:50] <cmaloney> 9x9 and 13x13
[19:50] <mrgoodcat> cmaloney: i'd enjoy that
[19:50]  * cmaloney doesn't have a big 19x19 board.
[19:51] <mrgoodcat> brousch: i'm going to assume that white are your territory, black is mine, pink is no-mans-land?
[19:51] <brousch> I think when white is on a black stone it's marked as dead
[19:51] <cmaloney> pink is contested iic.
[19:52] <mrgoodcat> brousch: what am i supposed to do here?
[19:52] <brousch> I think if white box is on black stone it is dead
[19:53] <cmaloney> The algorithm considers it dead
[19:53] <cmaloney> it's up to you to determine if it is dead or not
[19:53] <cmaloney> though at this point I'd say that anywhere it considers dead is probably legit
[19:53] <mrgoodcat> so am i determining my dead stones as well as yours?
[19:53] <mrgoodcat> or just yours (none)
[19:54] <brousch> I don't think I have any dead
[19:54] <mrgoodcat> you don't
[19:54] <mrgoodcat> are my top-left dead?
[20:02] <brousch> If you know they will die if play continues, they are dead
[20:02] <brousch> So, yes
[20:03] <mrgoodcat> i think i did that right
[20:04] <brousch> mrgoodcat: g2 is the only dead one you missed
[20:04] <mrgoodcat> oh yea
[20:04] <mrgoodcat> oops
[20:04] <mrgoodcat> i meant to click that
[20:05] <brousch> No problem, it let me select it
[20:06] <mrgoodcat> so it goes back and forth until there is agreement it seems
[20:06] <mrgoodcat> so when i clicked done without marking any stones, the game ended
[20:07] <brousch> that makes sense
[20:07] <mrgoodcat> want to play another 9x9 or a 13x13 this time?
[20:08] <brousch> I wonder if it lets you resume play if you can't agree
[20:08] <mrgoodcat> i dont know
[20:08] <mrgoodcat> i didn't really look too close at the options at the bottom
[20:10] <mrgoodcat> each dead stone counts as 2 points?
[20:12] <brousch> Seems to. I guess technically it's a capture and a territory
[20:12] <brousch> But if played out it would not be as much territory, so that seems weird
[20:13] <mrgoodcat> i think it is to prevent someone from trying to fill up your territory before the end game
[20:13] <mrgoodcat> you are giving them spaces if you can't save your stones
[20:13] <mrgoodcat> er points
[20:15] <brousch> So for g1,2, If I played at g1, I would get a point for capture and a point for territory, so it would only come to 2 points for that area instead of the 3 I got
[20:17] <brousch> Similar in upper left. Played out to a ridiculous level would get my 8pts instead of the 10 I got
[20:17] <brousch> insteresting
[20:18] <mrgoodcat> a prisoner is also a point though
[20:19] <mrgoodcat> oh wait thats what you said
[20:19] <mrgoodcat> we'll play out the next one until it's done then?
[20:19] <mrgoodcat> unless someone is just filling in their own territory or the game is clearly lost
[20:20] <brousch> In this case 3 points would not have made a diference
[20:20] <brousch> I guess if the game is close enough you'd keep going
[20:21] <mrgoodcat> similar thing would have happened to my territory too
[20:22] <brousch> true
[20:22] <mrgoodcat> not sure what the numbers would have ended up being but my top left had a lot of empty space to fill up
[20:22] <mrgoodcat> er right
[20:22] <mrgoodcat> another game?
[20:24] <brousch> Yeah, won't be as intense though due to end of work day stuff
[20:24] <mrgoodcat> yea ok
[20:24] <mrgoodcat> 9 or 13?
[20:24] <brousch> Up to you
[20:25] <brousch> 9 goes faster, but 13 becomes a different game
[20:25] <brousch> Fewer walls to bump into
[20:27] <mrgoodcat> i think i'd like another 9 to get used to it. you make it or me
[20:27] <mrgoodcat> ?
[20:27] <mrgoodcat> woah.... too many settings. you can make it
[20:46] <brousch> heh, just set the board size and leave the rest
[20:47] <brousch> invited
[20:51] <cmaloney> Generally speaking if you don't know what the drop-down does, dont' worry about it.
[20:51] <mrgoodcat> sorry i had to walk away for a second. i'm going to try to get the android app working
[20:55] <cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/10/adobes-e-book-reader-sends-your-reading-logs-back-to-adobe-in-plain-text/ <- The sooner Adobe gets out of the content distribution business the happier I'll be
[20:55] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/UtjKDY - Adobe’s e-book reader sends your reading logs back to Adobe—in plain text [Updated] | Ars Technica
[20:56] <cmaloney> love their formats, hate their stupid DE.
[20:56] <cmaloney> (digital editions)
[20:57] <brousch> mrgoodcat: No problem.


[00:01] <nanotube> btw, bugreport: show desktop button minimizes all windows across all workspaces, not just current workspace. (on oneiric here)
[00:01] <nanotube> hope that's not "expected behavior" on xubuntu
[00:01] <nanotube> ?
[00:02] <nanotube> not clicking that again....
[00:08] <ochosi> knome, mr_pouit: we'll have to add a new point to our agenda for precise (unless we want to risk some visual breakage): fork elementary-icon-theme as xubuntu-icon-theme (or something)
[00:10] <ochosi> knome, mr_pouit: ubuntu will release all the changes by upstream elementary, i.e. all the dropped symlinks. i've just discussed this with DanRabbit in #elementary-dev and he is okay with our/my decision. we can later talk about cherry-picking stuff from upstream (i can maintain it in either bzr or git, preferrably the latter)
[00:12] <ochosi> knome, mr_pouit: he said he'll support us so that we can avoid keeping/maintaining the fork in the next release (i.e. provide an addon-package again)
[00:13] <Unit193> I personally hate filing but reports, but I do them when I have to
[00:14] <ochosi> nanotube: i think it is expected behavior. better to file a bugreport upstream versus xfwm4
[00:15] <ochosi> nanotube: (or whatever component houses this shortcut)
[00:25] <nanotube> ochosi: well, it certainly hasn't been expected behavior on gnome, since at least ubuntu breezy. and it certainly doesn't make sense that when i hit a 'show desktop' i want to minimize everything across all workspaces, rather than the one currently on.
[00:25] <nanotube> guess i'll file that bug with xfce
[00:25] <ochosi> sounds like a plan
[00:26] <nanotube> :)
[10:45] <knome> ochosi, sounds fair enough
[11:52] <knome> madnick, read micahg's email to xubuntu-devel :)
[12:08] <knome> hey micahg
[12:09] <knome> is there a bug for the thunderbird icons in LP?
[12:09] <knome> ah, there is!
[12:10] <knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/murrine-themes/+bug/856939 <- micahg, would you like to be the assignee?
[12:12] <knome> madnick, i sent the weekly mail to ubuntu-release a moment ago
[13:43] <madnick> knome: you mean the gtk-example-gretter?
[13:43] <madnick> greeter*
[16:44] <charlie-tca> Hardware installs day today. I will try and do at least one for each image in real hardware today.
[16:50] <charlie-tca> Thanks, astraljava . Those tests help.
[17:45] <pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-bugs
[17:45] <pleia2> this list is dead, right?
[17:45] <pleia2> nothing in the archives
[17:48] <knome> pleia2, afaik, yes
[17:48] <knome> thunderbird needs "keep this folder always marked read" -option
[17:49] <knome> for sent mail, drafts and maybe even trash :)
[17:53] <charlie-tca> pleia2: yes, I think we tried to use it about 2-3 years ago, but it has not been used for so long, it is dead.
[17:54] <pleia2> thanks knome and charlie-tca
[17:54] <pleia2> it's on our hit list for mailing list cleanup :)
[17:55] <charlie-tca> I saw that, and knew it was a dead one. I did not think a response would be needed if it was dead anyway. But, thanks for checking.
[17:55] <pleia2> well, I received an email from colin watson about a -patches list not keeping archives because the information was available elsewhere, so I wanted to make sure this wasn't the case elsewhere
[17:57] <charlie-tca> always good to make sure, I guess.
[18:16] <ochosi> knome: mind to add a task for the icon-theme? (sry, after 8hrs of korean lessons today i'm really too tired now and might forget until tomorrow...)
[20:26] <charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/193264
[20:27] <charlie-tca> maybe-ubiquity on daily-live i386 from today
[21:59] <knome> charlie-tca, looks relatively good but could use some more love :)
[22:02] <charlie-tca> of course. However, the screen before that with the two icons is still straight from Ubuntu, including the purple color
[22:06] <knome> do you have a shot of that too?
[22:07] <charlie-tca> no, It is harder to capture
[22:08] <ochosi> meh, purple :/
[22:08] <knome> okay. if you could get one at all, could you paste it?
[22:08] <charlie-tca> It doesn't show up right in VBox, only on hardware, which I can not screenshot.
[22:08] <ochosi> and hi everyone ;)
[22:08] <knome> ah, right
[22:08] <charlie-tca> It is the ubuntu bootup screen.
[22:08] <knome> hey ochosi, you're back :)
[22:08] <ochosi> charlie-tca: unless you use a digicam :)
[22:08] <charlie-tca> No money to buy one
[22:08] <ochosi> knome: well kinda, but maybe not for long today
[22:09] <ochosi> knome: btw, does the elementary-icons thing need community-approval?
[22:09] <ochosi> (e.g. in the next meeting)
[22:09] <knome> ochosi, i don't really think so. we're essentially keeping the same stuff
[22:10] <knome> ochosi, except putting in some improvements
[22:10] <ochosi> knome: yup, that's true
[22:10] <knome> i think what we should do is to as feedback on the changes once we've decided what to change, if they seem like big things
[22:11] <knome> no other package from upstream goes through community approval on new release either :)
[22:13] <charlie-tca> Um, the other problem with maybe-ubiquity is that if you choose "Install Xubuntu", keyboard doesn't work to go through the screens.
[22:13] <ochosi> knome: mhm, agreed
[22:14] <knome> charlie-tca, hmmh, could you file a bug?
[22:15] <charlie-tca> I will, when I am positive of what it is doing
[22:15] <knome> okay, thanks. can you also ping me back when you've done that, so i can forward that to cjwatson :)
[22:17] <charlie-tca> You know he is automatically subscribed to them, right?
[22:17] <knome> i suppose, but i've been in contact with him on IRC


[14:44] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[16:07] <BobJonkman> Good morning, BluesKaj
[16:11] <BluesKaj> hi BobJonkman
[16:12] <BobJonkman> Quick note for mars: There's a Waterloo Python group starting up: http://watpy.ca
[16:13] <mars> BobJonkman, neat, thanks for the heads-up
[16:13] <BobJonkman> Actually, it's a quick note for anyone in the Waterloo area who's interested.
[16:14] <BobJonkman> Albert O'Connor says the first meeting on the 9th will be an organizational meeting, to see if there's enough interest to set up a group.  Probably no coding...
[16:15] <dscassel> I'll be there! At least for a little bit.
[16:15]  * dscassel has a kwartzlab board meeting that evening as well.


[09:45] <esierrap> hi, is it possible lvm with cloud-init modules?
[09:46] <esierrap> or just with runcmd?
[09:51] <esierrap> can you give a clue, please?
[09:59] <esierrap> josputa!
[11:19] <minfrin> Hi all, ran into another problem while trying to initialise volumes.
[11:19] <minfrin> When I use cloud-init to try and format a block device provided by Azure, it fails as follows:
[11:19] <minfrin> 2016-02-23 11:01:50,344 - util.py[WARNING]: Failed during filesystem operation
[11:19] <minfrin> Failed to exec of '['/sbin/mkfs.ext4', '/dev/sdc', '-L', 'data']':
[11:19] <minfrin> Unexpected error while running command.
[11:19] <minfrin> Command: ['/sbin/mkfs.ext4', '/dev/sdc', '-L', 'data']
[11:19] <minfrin> Exit code: 1
[11:19] <minfrin> Reason: -
[11:19] <minfrin> Stdout: '/dev/sdc is entire device, not just one partition!\nProceed anyway? (y,n) '
[11:19] <minfrin> Seems that for this to work, the "-F" flag needs to be added. Is there a way to do this in cloud-init?
[11:19] <minfrin> (I'm not using a partition because this is impossible due to this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1523921)


[00:00] <RAOF> Good morninginging
[00:01] <TheMuso> Morning RAOF, hey rickspencer3.
[00:02] <rickspencer3> hi TheMuso
[00:02] <rickspencer3> happy Tuesday
[00:02] <RAOF> Morning TheMuso
[00:16] <desrt> tuesday?
[00:16] <desrt> what strange alternate universe is this?
[00:16] <rickspencer3> desrt, they live in Sydney
[00:16] <rickspencer3> they are from the future
[00:16] <RAOF> Well, and Hobart.
[00:17] <desrt> time, down under
[00:17] <rickspencer3> RAOF, you know Hobart is a manufacturer of industrial dishwashers, right?
[00:17] <TheMuso> "I remember the future, like it was only yesterday."
[00:18] <RAOF> rickspencer3: No?    The things you learn :)
[00:19] <lifeless> 8K new
[00:19] <lifeless> wowsers
[00:19] <desrt> lifeless: hem?
[00:20] <lifeless> desrt: the first item in ricks link
[00:20] <lifeless> a dishwasher
[00:20] <desrt> oh.  i thought you meant "8000 new instances of [something]"
[00:21] <lifeless> mind you
[00:21] <lifeless> I want one of these: http://www.dexigner.com/product/news-g3239.html
[00:21] <lifeless> better link - http://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/exhibits/binddes/rockpool/default.asp
[00:23] <desrt> uses co2 gas?
[00:23] <lifeless> liquid
[00:23] <desrt> makes more sense :)
[00:23] <lifeless> room temp pressurises Co2
[00:23] <lifeless> http://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/exhibits/binddes/rockpool/beneath.asp
[00:23] <lifeless> s/s /d /
[00:25] <desrt> fascinating
[00:25] <lifeless> http://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/exhibits/binddes/rockpool/interface.asp is pretty cool
[00:25] <lifeless> and a real eye opener about UI
[00:26] <RAOF> Yeah.
[00:27] <desrt> lifeless: pretty weird interface there
[00:28] <desrt> i'd suspect a pair of buttons would be more intuitive
[00:28] <lifeless> you'd need several buttons though
[00:28] <desrt> also: less pointlessly expensive
[00:28] <desrt> open/close and "wash now"
[00:28] <lifeless> open/close/start per side no ?
[00:28] <RAOF> Pointlessly expensive?  It's a supercritical CO₂ dishwasher!
[00:29] <desrt> lifeless: as it is, you need a rock per side
[00:29] <lifeless> 15$ in parts for a couple of magnets and logic vs a pressurised co2 containment system and seperator ?
[00:29] <lifeless> I'll pay it:>
[00:30] <desrt> lifeless: 15$ added to the cost of each unit in a mass-produced item is a no-go :p
[00:30] <lifeless> I disagree
[00:30] <lifeless> you have to talk % not absolute costs
[00:30] <desrt> true
[00:30] <desrt> but i imagine the co2 tech will get a lot cheaper
[00:31] <lifeless> dishwashers today are ~ 2K for standalone units
[00:31] <lifeless> 15 dollars there is still < 2%
[00:31] <lifeless> there is 10 times that variance across models already.
[00:31] <lifeless> more than even
[00:31] <desrt> anyway... the cost was not my main point
[00:32] <desrt> my entire point was "less intuitive -and- costs more, to boot"
[00:33] <bryceh> erf, allhands.canonical.com is really irritating me
[00:33] <bryceh> Conversion Error
[00:33] <bryceh> "HR0F08F0CC-C17F-463C-8D7C-3B3412F8ABFD_ZY3NDOMS0SALAsessment_1541_6": Error during model data update.
[00:33] <desrt> seems like a neat gimick, that's all
[00:34] <zachtib> Hi, I asked this in #ayatana also, but I was wondering if someone in here might know... I want to bundle a light and dark tray icon with my app to match the new Lucid look and feel, but I'm wondering where exactly to put them so that appindicator picks them up
[00:35] <lifeless> desrt: I think you learn how to use it by fiddling with greater ease than my dishwasher
[00:35]  * ccheney made it to the hotel :)
[00:37] <desrt> lifeless: my initial reaction would be "what idiot put this rock on the dishwasher?" :p
[00:37] <lifeless> well, assume you don't know its a dishwasher
[00:38] <lifeless> because I doubt you would, its just a tray, with a rock, under some glass
[00:38] <desrt> btw: add moving glass shield and motion/proximity sensor to your cost estimation :p
[00:38] <lifeless> I suspect the shield is part of the containment system
[00:38] <lifeless> could be wrong
[00:39] <desrt> i suspect it's a "we don't let you move the rock if it would put the system into an inconsistent state" system
[00:39] <desrt> seems like the system could be sealed by the main door that covers the plates
[00:39] <lifeless> ah that too
[00:41] <JanC> zachtib: somewhere in a subfolder of ubuntu-mono-light & ubuntu-mono-dark I suppose
[00:42] <zachtib> JanC: that's where I have them, but appindicator isn't picking them up
[00:45] <zachtib> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark/apps/22/lookit.svg and i've given the indicator the icon name "lookit"
[00:45] <zachtib> it picks up an icon if I throw it into /usr/share/pixmaps
[00:45] <zachtib> but that won't let me conform to the theme
[00:56] <RAOF> zachtib: I'd guess that you'd need to re-run the icon theme cache generator.  This doesn't sound like the right approach, though, as it's specific to these icon themes.
[00:56] <zachtib> i did run gtk-update-icon-cache
[01:16] <TheMuso> c
[01:17] <rickspencer3> RAOF, if we hold back 3d support for intel 8xx chipsets, we use Vesa for those chips?
[01:18] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Correct.
[01:20] <rickspencer3> wow, the burndown chart page makes is really easy to be transparent with our plans
[01:30] <bryceh> rickspencer3, howso?
[01:30] <rickspencer3> bryceh, well ... I'm working on my normal "this is what we decided at UDS" blog post
[01:31] <rickspencer3> and using http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/ ...
[01:31] <rickspencer3> I can pretty much see everything
[01:31] <rickspencer3> and these are totally public pages
[01:31] <rickspencer3> so users can just look at the individual work items we have assigned ourselves
[01:31] <bryceh> ah cool
[01:31] <rickspencer3> I wonder how many other projects work with this degree of transparency?
[01:32] <rickspencer3> I think Eclipse might
[01:33] <rickspencer3> there is also this, of course: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
[01:33] <rickspencer3> the combination is potent from a planning and tracking pov
[01:35] <rickspencer3> dinner time
[02:10] <TheMuso> Does anybody know off hand what is responsible for multimedia key press handling?
[02:16] <RAOF> TheMuso: My understanding is: the kernel should be translating them to recognisable keycodes, then gnome-settings-daemon dispatches them to whatever multimedia app has registered for notifications.
[02:16] <mclasen> with some X in between
[02:16] <TheMuso> RAOF: Right, its the gnome-settings-daemon bit I was wondering about, thanks.
[02:17] <RAOF> mclasen: Always.  :)
[02:17] <mclasen> in this case a bit of bottleneck, keycode-wise
[03:05] <ScottL> hello all, the ubuntu studio devs were wondering if removing a patch for network-admin would present a regression for vanilla desktop users
[03:05] <ScottL> bug #570828
[03:05] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 34)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570828
[03:05] <ScottL> i don't think that network-admin is installed by default for a desktop installation, so i didn't think this would really present a regression
[04:21] <robert_ancell> desrt, are you making more work for me? :)
[04:21] <desrt> robert_ancell: yes :)
[04:21] <desrt> robert_ancell: dconf release coming in a few minutes
[04:22] <desrt> robert_ancell: i have the beginning of a dconf client API too
[04:22] <desrt> so you could theoretically start working on the editor
[04:22] <desrt> *lots* of new work :)
[04:22] <robert_ancell> desrt, also, I didn't realise you already had packages for dconf - is there any reason why I shouldn't just take those into universe?
[04:22] <desrt> i dont' have packages for dconf
[04:22] <desrt> the ones in my PPA are hilariously ancient
[04:22] <desrt> i should delete them, actually
[04:23] <desrt> btw: probably time for a MIR
[04:23] <robert_ancell> desrt, universe first :)
[04:24] <desrt> ok.  GSettings PPA is history
[04:24] <robert_ancell> desrt, I think I'll stick with the names you used for now - we can change the source package name in the future if required
[04:24] <desrt> desrtconf? :D
[04:25] <robert_ancell> libdconf.  So now we know what the d stands for
[04:25] <desrt> robert_ancell: you didn't already know? :p
[04:25] <desrt> anyway.  fine with me.
[04:26] <desrt> there was another issue, though: dconf tries to install /usr/bin/dconf
[04:26] <robert_ancell> sigh, glib takes so long to build... It hung on a unittest for .6, hoping this one works better
[04:26] <desrt> ya.  there's a gtester bug that leads to periodic hangs
[04:26] <robert_ancell> desrt, what has to execute /usr/bin/dconf?
[04:26] <desrt> the testcase terminates but the tester framework fails to notice the SIGCHLD
[04:26] <desrt> robert_ancell: humans
[04:26] <robert_ancell> desrt, is that fixed?
[04:27] <desrt> robert_ancell: no.  long-standing difficult bug
[04:27] <robert_ancell> desrt, so it's just random?
[04:27] <desrt> it's a race
[04:27] <desrt> it bites me sometimes during releases
[04:27] <desrt> then i swear
[04:27] <robert_ancell> ok, feeling lucky this time
[04:27] <desrt> 'make distcheck' takes longer than your normal build-from-tarball :p
[04:27] <desrt> and i have to start allll over again
[04:27] <robert_ancell> humans don't execute dconf right?
[04:27] <desrt> well
[04:28] <desrt> humans as in me and you, or humans as in "Linux for Human Beings"?
[04:28] <desrt> you and i will definitely want to execute /usr/bin/dconf from time to time.  it's the gconf-tool equivalent
[04:28] <robert_ancell> it gets run by libdconf on demand right?  Or gnome-session?
[04:28] <robert_ancell> ok, so it can handle a name changing for now then
[04:28] <desrt> ah.  that's /usr/libexec/dconf-service
[04:28] <desrt> or /usr/lib/dconf/dconf-service in the debian world, i guess
[04:29] <desrt> are you packaging now?
[04:31] <robert_ancell> I did some yesterday, waiting to get the updated glib working before I propose it
[04:31] <robert_ancell> and when I've installed it I'll try the API out
[04:32] <desrt> k.  just wanted to say that you should not package dconf 0.3
[04:32] <desrt> 0.3.1 will be out very soon
[04:33] <robert_ancell> ok
[04:33] <robert_ancell> maverick is unstable anyway :)
[04:34] <desrt> 0.3 won't even build anymore :p
[04:34] <desrt> i broke glib API today, times two
[04:34] <desrt> both of them breaking dconf 0.3
[04:35] <TheMuso> So what is dconf compared to gsettings?
[04:36] <robert_ancell> desrt, that's why there's no MIR yet :)
[04:37] <desrt> ok.  dconf 0.3.1 is now released in the usual places
[04:38] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, dconf=backend, gsettings=api
[04:39] <robert_ancell> desrt, is anyone working on an LDAP backend?  I think that was one of the criticisms of gconf right?
[04:42] <desrt> robert_ancell: no.
[04:43] <desrt> robert_ancell: but rodrigo is planning an ubuntu1/couchdb backend
[04:43] <desrt> reminds me -- i promised him a plugin API in dconf-service
[04:43] <desrt> hmmm
[04:43] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, can you add something here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/CoreDevApplication ? Paperwork says I need 3-5 endorsements.
[04:44] <desrt> Things I could do better
[04:44] <desrt> Filling out Ubuntu paperwork earlier (e.g. Core Dev applications)
[04:47] <desrt> hmm.  i think i'll be doing the sleeping thing now
[04:47] <desrt> robert_ancell: best of luck.  let me know if you hit any problems, of course
[04:47] <robert_ancell> desrt, thanks, see you later
[04:47] <desrt> good night (morning?)
[04:47] <robert_ancell> 2pm
[04:47]  * desrt pads off
[04:52] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: woops it slipped off the radar, will take care of that in a bit.
[05:02] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, also, can you sponsor gucharmap from bzr?
[05:02] <robert_ancell> pitti, ^^^ should gucharmap be in the desktop set?
[05:03] <robert_ancell> pitti, actually I should be bugging seb128 for these things now
[05:05] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: sure
[05:05] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, oh and I'm about to ask you to sponsor glib in a minute too :)
[05:10] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: no problem
[05:27] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: uploading gucharmap
[05:27] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, sweet
[05:36] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: let me know when you want me to look at glib
[05:36] <TheMuso> c
[05:37] <robert_ancell> it's rebuilding yet again, failed at the final step (missing symbols from .symbols file)
[05:38] <TheMuso> ah ok
[05:48] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, gconf too?
[05:48] <TheMuso> sure
[05:50] <TheMuso> Just let me know when they are ready.
[06:05] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, both ready
[06:05] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: ok will do them right away.
[06:25] <waltercool> a question... using dvd version of Ubuntu... can i make a new Xubuntu/Ubuntu/Kubuntu installation? Or is just Ubuntu with more packages on dvd?
[06:26] <waltercool> oh sorry... wrong place :/
[06:26] <waltercool> was just a xchat problem
[06:31] <TheMuso> yay long glib test runs. :_
[06:56]  * TheMuso does gconf while waiting for glib...
[07:08] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: gconf FTBF son i3786 for me
[07:08] <TheMuso> i386 even
[07:14] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: and amd64. I'll update my chroot to see if that helps any.
[07:18] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok, looking here
[07:30] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, it just built for me on my Maverick box (i386)
[07:31] <TheMuso> Hrm.
[07:31] <TheMuso> Well I updated my amd64 chroot.     This is the problem?
[07:32] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, on my test box
[07:33] <robert_ancell> but thinking about migrating my main box as then I can compile faster
[07:33] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: right. I'll pastebin the error if it happens again.
[07:33] <TheMuso> ok glib uploading.
[07:33] <robert_ancell> I had trouble getting my Maverick pbuilder to work in Lucid, gave up and just use the test box
[07:35] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I hear your frustration :)
[07:37] <RAOF> Fortunately, pbuilder exists, and works.
[07:38] <RAOF> Just slightly less nice.
[07:41] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/439226/
[07:49] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: the above is the gconf FTBFs.
[08:02] <pitti> Good morning
[08:02] <pitti> robert_ancell: gucharmap> is it not?
[08:04] <didrocks> good morning
[08:05] <pitti> hey didrocks
[08:05] <didrocks> hey pitti, how was your week-end?
[08:05] <pitti> nice and long; lots of fresh air :)
[08:05] <pitti> how was you'rs?
[08:05] <pitti> your's
[08:06] <didrocks> pitti: nice too, a lot of walk in Paris :)
[08:11] <robert_ancell> pitti, no, it's in main
[08:13] <pitti> robert_ancell: but it's already installed by default
[08:13] <pitti> robert_ancell: and ubuntu-desktop pulls it in
[08:15] <robert_ancell> pitti, I think it needs to be added to the ubuntu-desktop whitelist
[08:15] <pitti> robert_ancell: oh, you mean for team upload, not seed
[08:15] <robert_ancell> yeah
[08:15] <pitti> robert_ancell: probably some other desktop uses it as well
[08:16] <pitti> robert_ancell: can you please ping cjwatson about it?
[08:16] <robert_ancell> thanks, couldn't remember who was doing it
[08:16] <TheMuso> xubuntu uses it as well as studio.
[08:16] <TheMuso> and ubuntu netbook
[08:17] <TheMuso> at least in lucid.
[08:22] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: were you building gconf in a chroot at all? Without having delved deeper, I still don't know why I gt an FTBFs as above.
[08:23] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, I've uploaded it to a PPA to see what happens there
[08:23] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: ok
[08:35] <glatzor> hello mvo
[08:35] <mvo> hey glatzor!
[08:40] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, fixed gconf, can you try again?
[08:41] <didrocks> good morning glatzor, mvo (and robert_ancell ;))
[08:41] <seb128> hey didrocks robert_ancell
[08:41] <robert_ancell> hello
[08:41] <mvo> hey didrocks and robert_ancell and seb128
[08:41] <pitti> bonjour seb128, guten Morgen mvo
[08:42] <pitti> urgh, I didn't mean to scare you
[08:42] <mvo> hey pitti
[08:42] <mvo> heh :)
[08:42] <didrocks> good morning seb128
[08:42] <seb128> wrong click
[08:42] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:42] <seb128> hey mvo pitti
[08:43] <glatzor> hello didrocks
[08:43] <didrocks> mvo: FYI, I have pushed this week-end a new version of oneconf-query using an undocumented desktopcouch function (batch_update) which help for first update (from more than 1min to less than 1s)
[08:43] <seb128> getting coffee, back in a bit
[08:45] <mvo> didrocks: sweet
[08:45] <mvo> didrocks: that is great news
[08:45] <didrocks> mvo: yes ;) I'll finish later today the metapackage handling and I think it's done for the CLI part. Will add the dbus backend this week, I hope
[08:47] <mvo> ok
[08:47] <mvo> I'm doing a mini sprint this week with arne to improve language-selector
[08:47] <mvo> so I won't have much time (unfortunately) for it
[08:48] <didrocks> mvo: no pb. I have no blocker right now :)
[08:48] <didrocks> mvo: enjoy your mini sprint!
[08:48] <mvo> it starts tomorrow :)
[08:48] <mvo> (mini-mini :)
[08:50] <seb128> reboot brb
[08:51] <didrocks> heh :)
[09:17] <mvo> chrisccoulson: hey! if you have a moment, can you help me with a NM releated question?
[09:53] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:54] <chrisccoulson> hey mvo
[09:54] <mvo> hey chrisccoulson
[09:56] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[09:56] <didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson
[09:56] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, i'm good thanks. did you enjoy your long weekend?
[09:56] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, how are you too?
[09:57] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine after a good week-end :)
[09:57] <seb128> yes, very nice weather and relaxing weekend
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> you had nice weather too? it was quite hot here at the weekend
[09:59] <seb128> yes, summer weather
[10:00] <chrisccoulson> we had 2 whole days of summer weather at the weekend, which probably means that summer is finished for us until next year ;)
[10:00] <seb128> lol
[10:20] <huats> morning
[10:41] <pitti> chrisccoulson: good morning, how are you?
[10:41] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i'm good thanks. how are you?
[10:41] <pitti> I'm great, thanks
[10:54] <fta> bratsche, (in case you missed it yesterday) the c-s-d patch in gtk also breaks acroread in the partner's repo
[10:54] <seb128> fta, he's sleeping
[10:55] <seb128> it's middle of night for him now
[10:55] <fta> oh, which TZ?
[10:55] <seb128> Dallas
[10:55] <fta> ok, thanks
[11:39] <seb128> fta, is anybody still using jaunty?
[11:39] <fta> seb128, why?
[11:39] <seb128> fta, you are blocking a ppa builder for hours building chromium dailies for jaunty
[11:40] <seb128> I think we could make better use of that ppa builder ;-)
[11:40] <seb128> ie I'm waiting for some builds for an hours and looked at what was blocking builds
[11:40] <fta> seb128, (i often get user requests for mozilla & chromium from jaunty users)
[11:40] <seb128> users are weird ;-)
[11:40] <seb128> why would anybody stay on jaunty
[11:42] <fta> seb128, well, chromium starts at 4am, but today, it ftbfsed and i fixed it this morning
[11:42] <seb128> ok
[11:42] <seb128> I've nothing against those daily build
[11:42] <seb128> it just seems the jaunty build is wasting cycles for almost nothing though
[11:42] <fta> seb128, iirc, lp shouldn't give me all the resources. something else is blocking too
[11:42] <seb128> I doubt many users are staying on an one year old non lts version
[11:43] <seb128> right it doesn't give you all the ressources but half of it
[11:43] <fta> i'm sill waiting for the ppa stats to see how many users each dist still has
[11:43] <seb128> which means the other stack of build is taking double time ;-)
[11:43] <seb128> anyway I don't want to argue
[11:44] <seb128> I just doubt there is many people still running jaunty
[11:44] <seb128> it wasn't our best version, it's one year old and it's not a lts
[11:44] <seb128> so it seems costy in build time for a few users only
[11:46] <fta> if i stop running the testsuite, i could shrink the build time from 2h to ~30m
[11:47] <seb128> if you think you have users on jaunty don't bother about my comment
[11:47] <seb128> I though it was a leftover
[11:47] <seb128> I'm just surprised that anybody still rely on it
[11:48] <fta> well, i really have no idea, i just see the users complains i get in my mbox when the builds fail for more than a few days
[11:48] <seb128> ups
[11:48] <fta> i need to check the status of bug 139855
[11:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 139855 in soyuz (and 2 other projects) "Display stats about PPA usage (affects: 19) (dups: 1) (heat: 156)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139855
[11:48] <seb128> well you will see 3 jaunty user complaining I guess
[11:49] <seb128> where you might creating issue for some thousand users waiting on builds for versions actually used ;-)
[11:49] <seb128> ie lucid or maverick
[11:51] <fta> most of the time, noone complains. when there's a mass-rebuild, i usually stop all my dailies until it clears out
[11:51] <seb128> ok
[11:52] <seb128> other users probably just wait the hour without complaining about the useless jaunty builds blocking a builder ;-)
[11:52] <seb128> anyway lunch time
[11:52] <seb128> bbl
[11:54] <Laney> so I uploaded f-spot 0.6.2 yesterday. What should happen with the SRU?
[12:28] <seb128> Laney, hey
[12:28] <seb128> Laney, somebody should work on it? ;-)
[12:29] <seb128> Laney, we need to lower changes for the sru so we can't use the maverick version, we want to update the lucid one without packaging changes
[12:29] <seb128> there is quite some changes there for a stable update though it seems
[12:46] <seb128> mvo, update-notifier displays a notification area icon again in maverick it seems
[12:46] <mvo> seb128: oh? I did not upload it, maybe it got synced via debian?
[12:46] <seb128> mvo, indeed it did
[12:47] <mvo> seb128: I check it out
[12:48] <seb128> "  * Show the tray icon instead of running update-manager (Closes: #578717),"
[12:48] <seb128> "    the update-manager mode does not even work currently due to Bug#579789."
[12:48] <seb128> mvo, ^ in the current Debian revision
[12:50] <mvo> seb128: yeah, just saw itI will upload a new version in a little bit I think
[12:50] <mvo> and see what changes debian has that are worth taking
[12:51] <seb128> mvo, no hurry I was just mentioning it because I noticed on my mini which I use as a testbox ;-)
[12:52] <mvo> ok :)
[12:55] <Laney> I don't know if even just the upstream changes would be alright
[12:55] <Laney> can someone take a look at those?
[13:01] <seb128> Laney, it seems to be quite some changes to me
[13:01] <Laney> yes indeed
[13:02] <seb128> I guess we could either go with backporting fixes or trying to get the versions in lucid-proposed for a while
[13:02] <Laney> which is why I don't know if it'll go into lucid at all
[13:02] <seb128> would be nice to have pitti or somebody from the sru team to comment on it
[13:02] <seb128> do you have a simplified debdiff online somewhere?
[13:02] <seb128> ie one without autotools noise, translations, etc
[13:09] <Laney> http://people.ubuntu.com/~laney/fspot.diff
[13:09] <Laney> it's large due to stuff like removing Mono.Addins which we never linked against anyway
[13:09] <Laney> seb128, pitti: ^
[13:10] <seb128> Laney, can you filter that out from the debdiff too?
[13:11] <seb128> let me look at it there
[13:14] <seb128> Laney, seems too many changes for a sru in my opinion
[13:16] <Laney> I updated the diff
[13:16] <Laney> but yes it likely is
[13:18] <seb128> Laney, I think I would rather work by backporting fixes for some of the issues in launchpad
[13:23] <pitti> I agree, this is really intrusive
[14:26] <rickspencer3> seb128, I renamed the meeting page with the proper date: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-05-25
[14:27] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[14:27] <seb128> good, I double checked my calender I was wondering if my computer was on the wrong day ;-)
[14:29] <didrocks> I just refreshed the page before posting and was quite surprized to see it gone :)
[14:30]  * kenvandine should refresh :)
[14:33] <rickspencer3> oops
[14:33] <rickspencer3> hope I didn't blow away anyone's data
[14:33] <didrocks> kenvandine: btw, if you do batch insert to desktopcouch, you should really consider put_records_batch
[14:33] <didrocks> rickspencer3: not for me, it was refreshing before copy and paste :)
[14:33] <kenvandine> didrocks, did you find docs?
[14:33] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, not yet...
[14:33] <kenvandine> :)
[14:34] <didrocks> kenvandine: no, but it's easy to use: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~didrocks/+junk/oneconf/revision/7
[14:34] <didrocks> kenvandine: just a list of Records
[14:34] <didrocks> kenvandine: for 1700 entries it goes for more than 1min here to less than 1s :)
[14:35] <kenvandine> woot
[14:35] <kenvandine> so it is a list of json strings?
[14:36] <kenvandine> oh
[14:36] <kenvandine> a list of CouchRecord objects
[14:36] <didrocks> kenvandine: yes
[14:36] <kenvandine> sweet
[14:36]  * kenvandine thinks there should really be docs :)
[14:39] <seb128> hey ayan
[14:39] <seb128> welcome
[14:39] <ayan> hello seb!
[14:40] <seb128> everybody, ayan has started recently in the hwe team and is going to do gtk work there
[14:40] <seb128> he doesn't have too much on his plate yet and he might be helping us for a bit
[14:40] <seb128> so he can see how Ubuntu works and get started on some gtk bugs, etc
[14:41] <ayan> hello everyone!
[14:45] <didrocks> hey ayan
[14:45] <didrocks> ayan: welcome to the team :)
[14:45] <ayan> hi!  thanks. :)
[14:46] <didrocks> seb128: so, gtk + compiz ? ;)
[14:46] <seb128> lol
[14:46] <seb128> didrocks, no compiz, he's not in our team ;-)
[14:46] <seb128> ayan, don't be scared, it's a desktop team tradition, new comers get to maintain compiz
[14:46] <seb128> ;-)
[14:46] <didrocks> urgh, too bad for robert_ancell I guess :)
[14:46] <seb128> lol
[14:47] <mvo> hey ayan, welcome
[14:48] <seb128> bratsche_, bratsche: hey
[14:49] <mvo> seb128: if you source NEW sessioninstaller you can have packagekit session goodness now
[14:49] <seb128> bratsche_, bratsche: ayan will be doing gtk work for the hwe team
[14:49] <seb128> I've pointed you as a good contact point if he has questions to get started ;-)
[14:49] <seb128> mvo, oh, nice
[14:50] <ayan> lol
[14:51] <ayan> seb128: lets start with the compiz problems i have on *my* machine.
[14:51] <seb128> ;-)
[14:52] <pitti> seb128: do you know a good function to grep for to check whether/how a program properly registers to gnome-session?
[14:53] <seb128> pitti, grep smclient?
[14:54] <seb128> pitti, g_option_context_add_group (context, egg_sm_client_get_option_group ());
[14:55] <seb128> is what most GNOME softwares do
[14:55] <pitti> oh, seems it's a d-bus call to org.gnome.SessionManager.RegisterClient() ?
[14:55] <pitti> seb128: cheers
[14:55]  * pitti looked at gpm which apparently does the d-bus call manually
[14:55] <seb128> pitti, I don't know of anything using the dbus api
[14:55] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it depends, EggSmClient has a dbus and xsmp backend
[14:56] <pitti> right, so n-l-efl doesn't seem to register to gnome-session at all, that explains why panel and friends only start after some 10 s
[14:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson, seb128: thanks
[14:56] <bratsche> Hi ayan
[14:57] <ogra> pitti, note that there is effort to get away from gnome with the efl launcher in maverick
[14:57] <seb128> ogra, away from GNOME to what?
[14:57] <pitti> ogra: *nod*
[14:57] <ogra> seb128, a plain gtk container as panel replacement plus the indicators hooked into that
[14:58] <ogra> DX calls it upanel
[14:58] <seb128> well I guess it depends what you call GNOME
[14:58] <ogra> seb128, if i had finished writing the spec i could point you to it :)
[14:58] <seb128> do you still plan to use gdm or gnome-session?
[14:59] <ogra> seb128, gdm -> most likely since we dont have any replacement, -session, not sure
[14:59] <ogra> likely the minimal one from gdm
[14:59] <ogra> not a full gnome-session
[15:02]  * tremolux waves hello to ayan
[15:19] <pitti> hey tremolux
[15:20] <tremolux> pitti: hiya!
[15:20] <pitti> tremolux: thanks for the time zone investigations; seems this bug is invalid then?
[15:22] <tremolux> pitti: you mean based on the reply on the mailing list?  it *seems* so
[15:26] <tremolux> pitti: seems like I can attach that reply to the bug and set everything back to "fix released", and if "Guria" comments again we can consider reopening, does that sound correct?
[15:28] <pitti> tremolux: right, although I'd close it as invalid, not fixreleased
[15:28] <pitti> since we didn't actually change anything for this
[15:30] <tremolux> pitti:  sounds good (I was only thinking fix released because the actual bug itself was fix released, before the comment and reopening)
[15:30] <pitti> tremolux: ah, right, it was an old bug; right, fixreleased is appropriate then
[15:31] <tremolux> pitti: ok, will do, thx!
[15:32] <mvo> seb128: new gtk breaks emacs in gtk made badly - known issue?
[15:33] <seb128> bratsche: ^
[15:33] <seb128> mvo, yes, there is a bug open, it's rgba
[15:33] <seb128> you can export some variable
[15:33] <seb128> it's in the bug
[15:34] <bratsche> mvo: Yeah I was trying to get a stacktrace of emacs but it just exits.
[15:35] <bratsche> But I did a quick grep through emacs source for gtk colormap related stuff and there's nothing really standing out that seems relevant. :/
[15:36] <mvo> hm, is that a gnome bz or a Lp bug?
[15:36] <mvo> I want to find it to apply the workaround
[15:37] <bratsche> https://launchpad.net/bugs/585196
[15:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 585196 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "emacs fails to start: X protocol error (affects: 4) (heat: 22)" [Low,New]
[15:37] <mvo> thanks
[15:38] <mvo> low? not for emacs users ;)
[15:38] <seb128> mvo, I tend to not bother much about settings so early in maverick especially when you can export a variable to workaround the issue
[15:39] <seb128> ;-)
[15:39] <mvo> its ok, I saw a file overwrite error set to low as well recently ;)
[15:39] <seb128> lol
[15:39] <seb128> update-manager ignore those
[15:39] <seb128> so it's low too :p
[15:40] <mvo> I see :P I should switch teams, that would dramatically reduce my bug count ;)
[15:40] <seb128> lol
[15:41] <scott-work> hello all, the ubuntu studio devs were wondering if removing a patch for network-admin would present a regression for vanilla ubuntu desktop users
[15:41] <scott-work> bug #570828
[15:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 34)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570828
[15:41] <scott-work> i don't think that network-admin is installed by default for a desktop installation, so i didn't think this would really present a regression
[15:41] <mvo> seb128, bratsche: thanks for the workaround, I have a working emacs again \o/
[15:48] <rickspencer3> tremolux, hey, I think you told me this, but to double check:
[15:48] <rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-opportunistic-apps-stable-release
[15:48] <rickspencer3> has no work items for us because you are tracking them on the other software-center blueprints?
[15:49] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - re bug 439448 - i've been running gnome-panel for a few days now with GDK_NATIVE_WINDOWS, and i haven't seen any more problems yet (but i don't know if that's just a coincidence or not)
[15:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 439448 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "visual corruption affecting several panel applets (affects: 113) (dups: 35) (heat: 834)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439448
[15:49] <seb128> oh, gtk bug?
[15:49] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure. but it might be that i just haven't ran it for long enough yet
[15:49] <chrisccoulson> how often do you see it?
[15:49] <seb128> once a week
[15:50] <tremolux> rickspencer3: heya, actually, there are work items at the bottom
[15:50] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure if you want to try the same for a week or so to see if it goes away
[15:50] <rickspencer3> oh?
[15:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, maybe comment on the bug saying how to try that and see if some users who get the issue can try?N
[15:50] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[15:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, maybe comment on the bug saying how to try that and see if some users who get the issue can try?
[15:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, can do
[15:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[15:51] <rickspencer3> tremolux, they aren't showing up here for some reason: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html
[15:52] <seb128> rickspencer3, the spec has no assignee
[15:52] <rickspencer3> aha
[15:52] <seb128> rickspencer3, so you need names on those lines or an assignee for items to be listed
[15:53] <rickspencer3> ok, I assigned it to tremolux
[15:53] <tremolux> rickspencer3, seb128: yes, only my one work item there shows up (because I called out myself as the assignee)
[15:53] <rickspencer3> oh, I see
[15:53] <rickspencer3> the others are not on our team
[15:53] <rickspencer3> that makes total sense
[15:53] <rickspencer3> in other words, I was being a dope
[15:53] <tremolux> rickspencer3: haha  :)
[15:54] <rickspencer3> I'm a bit concerned that the community team hasn't made progress on the policy front
[15:54] <rickspencer3> I'll ping jono about that when he gets online
[15:55] <tremolux> rickspencer3: oh, I noticed something about https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-maverick-buy-something
[15:55] <rickspencer3> yes?
[15:55] <tremolux> rickspencer3: yesterday I had further broken out items for alpha-2 and alpha-3
[15:55] <tremolux> but I notice that the change I made was reverted
[15:55] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[15:55] <tremolux> rickspencer3:  8 minutes later
[15:56] <rickspencer3> I dunno, I didn't do that, at least not on purpose
[15:56] <tremolux> rickspencer3: it's ok, I think it was when you updated the series goal to maverick
[15:56] <tremolux> rickspencer3: so, as long as it wasn't on purpose (which is why I am checking), I'll just change it back
[15:57] <tremolux> rickspencer3: I think we just clobbered each other accidentally
[15:57] <rickspencer3> thanks tremolux
[15:57] <rickspencer3> sorry
[15:58] <tremolux> rickspencer3: oh np!
[15:58] <tremolux> rickspencer3: it's funny, it's not exactly a wiki though it tries to act like one  ;)
[15:59] <tremolux> rickspencer3: no warning of editing, separate "body" vs. whiteboard
[16:19] <mvo> kenvandine: have you seen this error here from gwibber before? http://paste.ubuntu.com/439399/
[16:19] <kenvandine> mvo, yes... fixed in trunk
[16:20] <mvo> aha, cool
[16:20] <mvo> thanks
[16:20] <kenvandine> i'll get an upload done soon with that fix :)
[16:20] <mvo> thanks :)
[16:28] <desrt> so is launchpad doing some creepy tracking of bugzilla/gnome-git these days?
[16:29]  * desrt has unexpected karma
[16:30] <Laney> you can see where it came from by clicking on it IIRC
[16:30] <desrt> right.  just says "Revision added" lots of times
[16:30] <desrt> no further details
[16:31] <Laney> ooer, not sure what that means
[16:31] <Laney> perhaps a vcs import from gnome git
[16:31] <desrt> ya.  i just find it a bit freaky that it's smart enough to link me with my upstream self :)
[16:32] <Laney> do you have the same email address registered?
[16:32] <desrt> nope
[16:32] <desrt> different user id too
[16:32]  * Laney backs away slowly
[16:32] <desrt> realname is the same, but that's about it
[17:29] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryceh, didrocks, kenvandine, pitti, Riddell, seb128 team meeting in 1 minute
[17:29] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-05-25
[17:29]  * ArneGoetje waves
[17:30] <chrisccoulson> and me? ;)
[17:30] <seb128> hey
[17:30] <didrocks> hey o/
[17:30] <rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson, yes and you ;)
[17:30] <chrisccoulson> ooh, i didn't do my activity report :(
[17:30] <bryceh> hi rickspencer3, do you need me for the meeting?
[17:30] <rickspencer3> bryceh, meh, I was just letting you know
[17:30] <rickspencer3> probably don't need you for anything
[17:30] <bryceh> ah ok
[17:31] <rickspencer3> everyone ready to go?
[17:31] <bryceh> just had lp team meeting and another meeting in 30 so I'll just be a lurker here
[17:31] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, anything for partner update?
[17:31] <Riddell> hi
[17:31] <rickspencer3> tremolux, team meeting is now, btw
[17:32] <rickspencer3> I'll take that as a "no"
[17:32] <rickspencer3> Riddell, anything for a Kubuntu update?
[17:32]  * kenvandine waves
[17:32]  * tremolux waves too
[17:32] <kenvandine> partner update?
[17:32] <rickspencer3> ah, now I've created resource contention
[17:32] <kenvandine> :)
[17:32] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, yeah
[17:33] <rickspencer3> are Dx and U1 done their A2 planning, for example?
[17:33] <kenvandine> no... U1 will have all their WIs added this week
[17:33] <rickspencer3> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/ubuntuone-hackers-maverick-alpha-2.html
[17:33] <rickspencer3> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-dx-team-maverick-alpha-2.html
[17:33] <kenvandine> DX i am more worried about, they have a bunch of blueprints that are assigned to the team and not approved
[17:33] <kenvandine> i need to talk to dbarth, but he is out again today
[17:34] <seb128> dbarth will be back tomorrow
[17:34] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:34] <seb128> which specs are you concerned about?
[17:34] <kenvandine> so we need to get that under
[17:34] <rickspencer3> dang it, I thought they were going to get these done by last Friday
[17:34] <kenvandine> well most of the ones for dx-m- aren't approved or assigned to an individual
[17:34] <kenvandine> seb128, so i don't know which ones will end up approved
[17:34] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-dx-team-maverick-alpha-2.html seems to have a good summary
[17:34] <kenvandine> seb128, perhaps you know
[17:35] <seb128> well if you tell me which one you are concerned about I can tell you if I know about it ;-)
[17:35] <kenvandine> seb128, ok, after the meeting
[17:35] <seb128> ok
[17:35] <kenvandine> i just did a search for dx-m- and was alarmed that most are "unapproved" and not assigned to an individual
[17:35] <kenvandine> maybe most of them aren't in scope...
[17:36] <kenvandine> anyway
[17:36] <kenvandine> we need to get that nailed down
[17:36] <rickspencer3> ACTION: kenvandine to clarify with Dx what is in scope for A2
[17:36] <kenvandine> good news is that U1 will do weekly releases this cycle
[17:36] <kenvandine> probably on tuesdays
[17:36] <rickspencer3> kewl!
[17:36] <kenvandine> starting next week
[17:36] <rickspencer3> great job kenvandine
[17:36] <kenvandine> there will be DX releases this thursday
[17:37] <kenvandine> that is it for partner update
[17:37] <rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
[17:37] <rickspencer3> Riddell, Kubuntu update?
[17:37] <Riddell>  * merges mostly done
[17:37] <Riddell>  * qt 4.7 in, split up slightly, arm build timing out :(
[17:37] <Riddell>  * KDE SC 4.5 beta being packaged
[17:37] <Riddell>  * kubuntu.org update blocked on sysadmins
[17:37] <Riddell>  * https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo starting to get coloured in
[17:37] <Riddell> I added alpha 2 targets to that Todo page
[17:37] <Riddell> not sure if a burndown chart will magically appear somewhere as a result
[17:38] <rickspencer3> ACTION: Riddell to ask pitti about creating Kubuntu burndown charts
[17:38] <pitti> hm, they should be
[17:38] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to poke squinky about kubuntu.org
[17:39] <rickspencer3> Riddell, thanks for the update, looks like a tight turnaround for the Kubuntu team from UDS -> work started
[17:39] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/kubuntu-dev.html
[17:39] <pitti> rickspencer3, Riddell ^
[17:39] <pitti> (per-milestone pages exist, too)
[17:40] <rickspencer3> son of a gun
[17:40] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti
[17:40] <rickspencer3> next on the agenda is Self and peer assessments
[17:40] <rickspencer3> so self assesments *are* due today
[17:40] <bratsche> seb128, mvo: I think I have a proper patch for the emacs23 issue on gtk.  I'm rebuilding emacs now, will test after lunch.
[17:40] <rickspencer3> but for peer assesments, you only need to invite people, not actually do them
[17:40] <rickspencer3> thanks to tremolux for catching my error there
[17:40] <rickspencer3> any questions about HR stuff?
[17:40] <seb128> bratsche: ok, good, having to fix the software is not great though, we don't have access to ie flash source
[17:41] <Riddell> beware of timeouts on the review website
[17:41] <tremolux> ouch, yes
[17:41] <rickspencer3> heh
[17:41]  * kenvandine got a big crash screen... but it seemed to work :)
[17:41] <rickspencer3> yeah, write your stuff in an editor, make sure it fits the ma character count
[17:41] <bratsche> seb128: Right.. I think maybe something can be done with the XEmbed code in Chromium though.  I'll talk to Evan Martin from Google if I can't figure out a way to fix it.
[17:41] <rickspencer3> and then past it in and submit
[17:42] <bratsche> seb128: Otherwise I guess we'd have to disable rgba on Chromium, which sucks and kind of defeats the purpose of all of this in a way. :)
[17:42] <rickspencer3> bratsche, seb128 could I ask you guys to take it to PM until after our meeting? we're going to be done soon
[17:42] <Riddell> rickspencer3: do you know if we can file a bug report with somebody about that?
[17:42] <bratsche> Sorry.
[17:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes, sorry
[17:42] <rickspencer3> bratsche don't be sorry, its all good
[17:42] <rickspencer3> Riddell, uh, I don't know
[17:43] <rickspencer3> It's a well known issue, and I think your energy will be better spent working around it ;)
[17:43] <rickspencer3> otherwise, maybe ping dgoggin?
[17:43] <rickspencer3> ok, on to release status?
[17:43] <rickspencer3> I haven't looked at Maverick bugs yet, so we'll just skip that for this week ;)
[17:44] <rickspencer3> I *think* our blueprints are substantially done, and work items identified
[17:44] <rickspencer3> are there any blueprints that should be, but are not, showing up here:
[17:44] <rickspencer3> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html
[17:45] <seb128> (it's too early to look at bugs anyway or rather to start tracking those)
[17:45] <ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: mine will be ready by eow (after sprinting with mvo and meeting with michaelforrest)
[17:46] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, ack
[17:46] <rickspencer3> seb128, do you feel that the blueprints are substantially complete?
[17:46] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes
[17:47] <seb128> I've been looking to the UDS topics and the registered blueprints for the meeting we had
[17:47] <rickspencer3> sweet!
[17:47] <rickspencer3> so it's Tuesday
[17:47] <seb128> the current list seems to be good
[17:47] <rickspencer3> basically, it took us 6.5 working days to get to this state
[17:47] <rickspencer3> that's quite good, I think
[17:48] <rickspencer3> in terms of turn around from UDS to starting real work
[17:48] <rickspencer3> perhaps we can shoot for 5 days in m + 1?
[17:48] <rickspencer3> and maybe work a bit tighter with out partners
[17:49] <tremolux> yes, that's the trickiest bit
[17:49] <rickspencer3> 2 questions occurred to me when I was looking through the specs
[17:49] <rickspencer3> #1 Are there patches for chromium that should be in the distro (make sqllite, gtk, etc... go faster?)
[17:49] <rickspencer3> like, if these chromium takes these patches to make chromium better, any reason we wouldn't take those into the distro?
[17:49] <rickspencer3> I don't want an answer now, but would someone like to take the lead to answer this question for our next meeting?
[17:50] <seb128> I think the chromium guys try to get their changes upstream but yeah, worth investigating
[17:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, maybe you could have a look to that?
[17:51] <rickspencer3> seb128, right, but there is a long turn around
[17:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, no problem. i'll try and figure out what changes they carry
[17:51] <rickspencer3> thanks chrisccoulson
[17:52] <rickspencer3> ACTION: chrisccoulson to investigate any chromium changes appropriate for the distro
[17:52] <rickspencer3> #2 how to make Qt apps run nicer on Ubuntu?
[17:52] <rickspencer3> I installed parley last night, and it works, but has terrible integration
[17:52] <rickspencer3> Qt is quite catching on, and I think we'll see more and more people want to run Qt apps on Ubuntu
[17:53] <rickspencer3> I'm wondering if there is something we can do to improve integration
[17:53] <rickspencer3> anyone interested in investigating for next week?
[17:53] <didrocks> (I'm interested but not sure I have the time right now for next week)
[17:54] <rickspencer3> yes, you are quite loaded with work for the next two weeks
[17:54] <rickspencer3> didrocks, can we carry this over to next week, perhaps you or someone else will be interested then
[17:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, sound ok?
[17:54] <didrocks> rickspencer3: sure
[17:55] <seb128> rickspencer3, you want to investigate what option the qt world gives there? or work to do?
[17:55] <rickspencer3> seb128, I want to know what work we could do to make Qt apps look like they just "fit in" to our desktop
[17:55] <rickspencer3> currently, they stand out, some badly
[17:55] <seb128> I would suggest that those who know better about qt are kubuntu guys, ie Riddell
[17:56] <rickspencer3> Riddell, can you take a look? it would entail installing Ubuntu ;)
[17:56] <Riddell> as ever in these cases kubuntu guys are unlikiely to care about ubuntu desktops (just as I've never noticed ubuntu desktop people caring about how gtk looks horrible on kubuntu)
[17:56] <seb128> Riddell, I do know that there is a qtk-gt-engine though
[17:56] <rickspencer3> right, it's not symetric
[17:56] <seb128> it has been creating quite some bugs :-p
[17:56] <Riddell> seb128: we dropped that two releases ago :)
[17:57] <rickspencer3> we care about Qt running on Gnome, but not about Gtk tunning on KDE
[17:57] <rickspencer3> ok, I'll keep it open until next week
[17:57] <seb128> rickspencer3, right, I was just pointing that if I know about this maybe somebody in kubuntu knows about something similar for qt
[17:57] <rickspencer3> after that, i'll have to assign it to someone
[17:57] <rickspencer3> (if no one volunteers)
[17:57] <seb128> ok
[17:57] <rickspencer3> probably for A3
[17:58] <Riddell> qt should have a built in theme for gnome, possibly it doesn't get used by kde apps
[17:58] <rickspencer3> I think everyone has work items planned out for A2, so it won't fit now, anyway
[17:58] <seb128> right, it also doesn't seem something which need to be done early in the cycle
[17:58] <seb128> a3 seems good enough
[17:58] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:59] <rickspencer3> well well well
[17:59] <rickspencer3> I guess we are really ready to rock Maverick!
[17:59] <kenvandine> :)
[17:59] <rickspencer3> I'll call that a wrap then
[17:59]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:59] <tremolux> haha  \o/
[18:00] <rickspencer3> thanks all, this really is a rocking team, maverick is going to raise the bar, yet again!
[18:00] <seb128> thanks rickspencer3
[18:00] <didrocks> thanks rickspencer3 ;)
[18:00] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[18:01] <pitti> go, desktop team,  go!
[18:02] <seb128> pitti, ;-)
[19:15] <Jasraj> hello everyone
[19:15] <Jasraj> I am new to ubuntu
[19:16] <Jasraj> installed a 64 bit version today
[19:16] <Jasraj> facing problem with display drivers
[19:16] <Jasraj> anyone to help me out?
[19:17] <Jasraj> no one?
[19:30] <Gianna_Parry> hi everyone!
[19:30] <Gianna_Parry> i'm looking to help out
[19:32] <rickspencer3> hi Gianna_Parry
[19:33] <rickspencer3> welcome
[19:35] <didrocks> rickspencer3: seem you were not convincing enough :)
[19:38] <rickspencer3> :/
[19:54] <dieki> I notice that the software center wiki page talks of purchasing software. Will this be like Apple's App Store where anybody can submit something for consideration and approval, or will it just be a few things like DVD players, MP3 codecs, etc. provided by Canonical or Canonical parteners?
[19:55] <mvo> can we make apport not pop up a gazillion times when multiple crashes are pending?
[19:55] <dieki> I'm hoping for an App Store...
[20:06] <dieki> Anybody know which way the Software Center will be?
[20:06] <dieki> Or is that not to be publicly revealed yet...
[20:29] <dieki> Hm. Either nobody knows, or else nobody is interested in saying anything...
[20:29] <dieki> (Or perhaps this is the wrong place to ask?)
[20:39] <pitti> good night everyone!
[20:41] <dieki> I notice that the software center wiki page talks of purchasing software.
[20:41] <dieki> +Will this be like Apple's App Store where anybody can submit something for
[20:41] <dieki> +consideration and approval, or will it just be a few things like DVD players,
[20:41] <dieki> +MP3 codecs, etc. provided by Canonical or Canonical parteners?
[21:14] <andreserl> rickspencer3, could you please "approve": https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-testdrive-frontend-gsoc ? thank you!!
[21:26] <rickspencer3> andreserl, done
[21:27] <andreserl> rickspencer3, thank you :)
[21:27] <rickspencer3> np
[22:44] <ayan> 3~/names
[23:32] <TheMuso> Good morning all.
[23:33] <fagan> good morning TheMuso
[23:42] <ccheney> while away at server sprint apparently my air conditioning at home broke down, not good :-\
[23:43]  * ccheney hopes a breaker just threw
[23:43] <fagan> ccheney: wow could it cause any damage. /me doesnt know anything about air con. Ireland is too cold for people to get it
[23:45] <fagan> Actually the air con made me feel really weird at UDS Dallas I had to go outside for air every few hours because I didnt feel to well.
[23:45] <ccheney> fagan: yea and i'm doing lots of OOo builds for an upcoming release, hopefully it won't melt down
[23:46] <ccheney> its in the mid 30Cs where i live
[23:46] <fagan> ccheney: well we would hit 30C about 1 time every 3 years
[23:46] <fagan> ish
[23:46] <ccheney> fagan: it gets up to the high 40Cs where I live in Jul/Aug
[23:47] <ccheney> with lots of humidity :-(
[23:47] <fagan> I couldnt live with that
[23:47]  * ccheney hopes its just a breaker that needs reset
[23:47]  * fagan hopes so too so ccheney doesnt melt
[23:48] <ccheney> heh
[23:48] <ccheney> i won't be back until fri but my wife is 9mo pregnant and at home in the heat :(
[23:48] <fagan> Ooh thats not good
[23:49] <fagan> hopefully it will have an easy fix
[23:49] <ccheney> yea
[23:51] <fagan> morning RAOF
[23:51] <RAOF> Good morning.
[23:53]  * fagan goes to bed
[23:53] <rickspencer3> hey RAOF
[23:54] <rickspencer3> RAOF, could you please answer that email from Yingying in the next 60 minutes?
[23:54] <RAOF> Hey rickspencer3
[23:54] <rickspencer3> I have a call with her later tonight
[23:54] <RAOF> Ok, certainly.
[23:59]  * TheMuso will brb in a couple of mins.


[19:56] <enyc> meow
[19:57] <enyc> A PPA maintainer switched on extra Architecture for me...
[19:57] <enyc> but that doesn't seem to cause new builds -- is there a specific way to cause them to happen with all the existing sources already uploaded in the PPA...?
[22:41] <wgrant> enyc: It doesn't happen automatically, but you can use the "Copy packages" link and basically copy the packages over themselves (into the same PPA you're copying from) to trigger the new builds.


[23:24] <doc|work> szel, reboot?
[23:25] <szel> doc|work: that means the live cd can't be used with a non US keyboard layout?
[23:25] <ilzolende> thanks, that worked
[23:25] <doc|work> szel, not sure, but if something funky happened it might not happen after a reboot
[23:25] <ilzolende> usually it doesn't
[23:25] <ilzolende> so i didn't think to try
[23:25] <ilzolende> but it worked this time :)
[23:26] <ZJAY> what is a good program/app to use for recording my screen?
[23:26] <doc|work> ilzolende, it's annoying, but all too frequently I need to run "sudo /etc/init.d/network-manager restart" after coming out of sleep
[23:26] <ilzolende> [nods]
[23:26] <doc|work> and occasionally just need to do it after some time...
[23:27] <blackflow> the network manager is still a huge PoS
[23:28] <ZJAY> anyone?
[23:29] <ZJAY> does utz see this?
[23:30] <gsilvapt> ZJAY, why not googling?
[23:31] <ZJAY> im asking the experts right?
[23:31] <ZJAY> no exact redemable results in google that i see besdies OBS
[23:31] <gsilvapt> Maybe there are a couple more options out there that have been tested
[23:32] <ZJAY> what about this ?
[23:32] <gsilvapt> not sure if screen captioning is that often
[23:32] <gsilvapt> here*
[23:32] <ZJAY>  if i have a process like mpd how do i get it "not" to startup at reboot or a cold boot???
[23:36] <deww> ZJAY: try systemctl mask mpd
[23:47] <mfDOOM> anyone use redshift? i love what it does, however it seems to cause display issues, and unpredictable app crashing when i enable it
[23:49] <r4wd0g1> Hello guys!
[23:50] <rizmo> anyone can help me? i have a problem with audio in ubuntu
[23:51] <ZJAY> deww that just creates a symlink so it will still start right iwanted it not to start at all or do i have to do a reboot cold start for it to have the desired effect?
[23:51] <rizmo> ubuntu uses built-in audio but the sound quality is so poor, also when i use headphones i hear a feedback noise, wat do?
[23:56] <rizmo> anyone?!
[23:56] <oldschool^> zzZzz :D
[23:57] <rizmo> :(
[23:57] <oldschool^> selamun aleykum rizmo
[23:57] <rizmo> shalom
[23:58] <implite> wow guys I have league of legends working on ubuntu 16.04 with wine 2.5-staging and configure wine to windows vista
[23:58] <implite> Sooo coool hahaha


[00:05] <hyperair> andreasn_: yes, i'm the maintainer of that PPA.
[00:05] <hyperair> andreasn_: the 1.5.4 really 1.5.3 means it's really 1.5.3, but the version needed to be bumped due to an accidental upload of the wrong package.
[00:06] <hyperair> andreasn_: i accidentally uploaded something meant for the daily PPA (a daily snapshot) to the banshee-team ppa instead.
[00:12] <nenolod> zul: you here?
[00:35] <andreasn_> hyperair, ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation
[05:04] <StevenK> lifeless: How about prodding me to sync it when it's actually hit dinstall? :-)
[05:23] <lifeless> StevenK: hey, rmadison shows it in debian :)
[07:27] <shawnboy> Can someone clear up my confusion about C/C++ and OO?
[07:31] <shawnboy> obj-oriented?
[07:33] <shawnboy> nobody talkative tonight.
[07:35] <persia> shawnboy: What are you trying to have answered?
[07:36] <shawnboy> persia, I've read conflicting things about whether C fully supports OO. I want to learn either C or C++. For some reason I lean toward C, but I do want to learn OO.
[07:36] <shawnboy> some say no, some say yes it can technically but why would u, and other say sure it can fully do OO
[07:38] <persia> Both languages allow various styles of programming (both OO and not, as well as other orientations).  This is not a good forum to ask such questions: they will be ignored unless someone happens to be bored and there is no other traffic.
[07:38] <persia> Unfortunately, I have no suggestions as to what would be an appropriate forum to get more information about these topics.
[07:38] <shawnboy> i knew this maybe isn't the perfect forum, but hoped that people doing actual devel on Linux would be good group to ask.
[07:39] <shawnboy> i tried ##programming but that channel isn't working for me for some reason, and that's only other one I knew of.
[07:39] <shawnboy> U have no opinion one way or another on the matter?
[07:40] <persia> None whatsoever.
[07:40] <micahg> shawnboy: there seems to be a ##c++-basic channel
[07:40] <shawnboy> micahg, ok. I can try that one. Isn't this for linux developers? Isn't straight C used for linux?
[07:41] <micahg> shawnboy: this channel is for Ubuntu development specifically
[07:42] <shawnboy> micahg, ok. so if I want linux developers opinions on my question... I'm out of luck?
[07:42] <hile> absolutely.
[07:43] <shawnboy> hile, ok. seems odd... but... ok.
[07:44] <micahg> shawnboy: this isn't a linux development channel (Ubuntu has a separate kernel channel), also stuff for ubuntu is probably written in a dozen languages
[07:44] <persia> Many more than a dozen.
[07:45] <persia> And it contains examples of many, many, many different programming paradigms in each language.
[07:45] <hile> most certainly this is not any kind of programming discussion channel.
[07:47] <shawnboy> hmmm. well, I learned something then. I didn't know that. I'll give another place a try. thanks for at least responding.
[07:48] <persia> shawnboy: Good luck in your search.
[07:51] <shawnboy> persia, thank you. g'night all.
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> sladen - i'm not sure why you ended up with epiphany-browser installed, but gnome-panel and gnumeric don't pull them in (they only suggest epiphany-browser, and suggests aren't installed by default)
[11:39] <sladen> chrisccoulson: apt-mark showauto | grep epiphany   shows it as having been automaticallly installed
[11:39] <chrisccoulson> have you configured your system to install suggests?
[11:39] <micahg> sladen: aptitude why epiphany-browser
[11:43] <sladen> thunderbird-locale-en-gb -> language-support-translations-en -> gimp-help-en -> www-browser -> epiphany-browser
[11:45] <chrisccoulson> that dependency chain is ok
[11:48] <micahg> not really, tb-locales doesn't depend on that package anymroe
[11:48] <micahg> *anymore
[11:48] <micahg> sladen: what version of the thunderbird-locale package do you have/
[11:50] <sladen> thunderbird-locale-en-gb          1:<IP_ADDRESS>+1-0ubuntu2
[11:51]  * micahg wonders if the locales got out of NEW
[11:51] <micahg> yes, sladen, that's not the latest version in lucid
[11:51] <micahg> do you have thunderbird 3 yet?
[11:52] <lifeless> sladen: thunderbird-locale-thr-gb is more fun
[11:53] <sladen> micahg: The only .*thunderbird.* package I have is 'thunderbird-locale-en-gb'.  (eg. I run with the defaults in order to dogfood)
[11:54] <micahg> sladen: than the issue is language-support-translations which should have been removed...I'd move your bug to update-manager...
[11:54] <sladen> micahg: done, and CC'ed mvo
[11:57] <micahg> I subscribed as well
[12:02] <sladen> lifeless: I'm still puzzling over what language code 'thr' is.  Is it for some remote British island colony or something?
[12:02] <lifeless> klingon
[12:03] <StevenK> And it's tlh
[12:03] <lifeless> oh, my fail.
[12:03] <lifeless> StevenK: so why couldn't you sync it ?
[12:03] <StevenK> lifeless: It wasn't in unstable yet?
[12:03] <lifeless> StevenK: rmadison thought it was
[12:03] <lifeless> StevenK: which I guess is what requestsync uses.
[12:04]  * StevenK kicks cocoplum
[12:05] <lifeless> StevenK: I mean, I didn't do any silly buggery, I just ran requestsync --lp -d unstable testresources
[12:05] <lifeless> and figured it would complain if it was too early.
[12:05] <lifeless> StevenK: should I be doing something different?
[12:05] <StevenK> lifeless: Nah, sounds like an okay process
[12:07] <StevenK> lifeless: Synced.
[12:07] <lifeless> thanks!
[13:46] <muelli> heya, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugs-auftrags-killer/+archive/muelli claims that my PPA is signed with a key, but http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bugs-auftrags-killer/muelli/ubuntu/dists/karmic/Release.pgp does not exist. How can I get the repository signed?
[14:10] <al-maisan> muelli: is your ppa new or was it recently created?
[14:11] <al-maisan> muelli: under normal circumstances a signing key is created for a PPA shortly after it was created
[14:12] <muelli> al-maisan: yeah, it's newish. three days old or so. And as I've said: The website claims it's signed, but the Release.pgp is missing.
[14:15] <micahg> muelli: try asking in #launchpad
[14:18] <muelli> micahg: thx. will do
[14:21] <al-maisan> muelli: that's out of the ordinary .. it should not take 3 days to generate the signing key
[14:24] <muelli> al-maisan: interestingly enough, I imported that key manually, so it exists at least :)
[14:25] <al-maisan> muelli: great :)
[14:47] <flower> in which package is  update-initramfs?
[14:49] <micahg> flower: initramfs-tools
[14:49] <flower> micahg: thx
[14:52] <muelli> flower: I use http://packages.ubuntu.com to search the packages that contain files :)
[18:08] <Lex79> I can't build the new version of kdebindings, something in mono is in "New" I think
[18:08] <Lex79> http://pastebin.ca/1814542
[18:09] <Lex79> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mono/2.4.4~svn151842-1ubuntu2
[18:10] <directhex> Lex79, yes, i was about to ask for an archive admin to intervene
[18:10] <directhex> Lex79, the cross-platform parts of mono are stuck in NEW (because the i386 build is stuck in NEW)
[18:11] <Lex79> ok thanks :)
[18:11] <directhex> because libmono-rabbitmq2.0-cil_2.4.4~svn151842-1ubuntu1_all.deb and libmono-messaging-rabbitmq2.0-cil_2.4.4~svn151842-1ubuntu1_all.deb are actually new this upload.
[18:12] <Lex79> oh, I see
[18:27] <ebroder> Are any core-devs around that could take a look at bug #497606? We just deployed CUPS 1.4 servers here, but have a lot of Hardy/Jaunty clients, so this bug is hitting us fairly hard
[18:28] <ebroder> I've had a tested debdiff sitting there for 2 months now
[18:37] <Amaranth> ebroder: in about 12-16 hours there will be a bunch
[18:37]  * ebroder sighs. Damn time zones
[18:46] <jdong> ebroder: do you need sru bits too?

[18:51] <jdong> ebroder: I do see core-devs alive right now but I'm afraid I'll be kidnapped in my sleep for revealing them ;-)
[18:51] <jdong> *keeps mouth shut*
[18:58] <directhex> jdong, how about archive admins? :p
[18:59] <jdong> directhex: am I not spying in the right channels?
[19:17] <ebroder> jdong: Yeah, it's an SRU
[19:19] <ebroder> Thanks
[19:20] <ebroder> jdong: Can you accept nominations on that bug? Or do you have to be able to upload the package to do that?
[19:21] <ebroder> (cupsys+hardy, cups+intrepid, and cups+jaunty should be accepted, and all the others should be rejected)
[19:21] <Laney> yah boo
[19:24] <jdong> ebroder: no, that's still core-dev only I'm afraid
[19:52] <lifeless> kees: bug 528115
[19:52] <lifeless> bah
[19:52] <lifeless> kees: bug 528155
[19:53] <lifeless> kees: thats the lvm issue I ran into last week
[19:59] <kees> lifeless: yup, hopefully the kernel team will catch it.  I'll milestone it.
[20:00] <lifeless> kees: thanks
[20:42] <_Groo_> can anyone tell me if sun-java6 was pulled out of lucid?
[20:43] <mdeslaur> _Groo_: it will be moved to the partner repo
[20:45] <_Groo_> mdeslaur: ah ok, but is the partner repo already activated in alpha3?
[20:45] <mdeslaur> _Groo_: there was a problem putting sun-java6 into the partner repo this week, it should be fixed shortly
[20:46] <Lex79> directhex: no news about mono issue? :(
[20:46] <directhex> Lex79, i haven't noticed an archive admin skulking about yety
[20:47] <directhex> or anyone i know to be an archive admin
[20:47] <_Groo_> mdeslaur: ok thanks... i almost had an heart attack lol
[20:47] <Lex79> ok
[20:54] <jdong> hmmmm any upstart/bootup deities in here?
[20:54] <jdong> http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/bootchart_lucid.png
[20:55] <jdong> my system seems to stall at bootup for $a_long_time doing nothing
[20:55] <jdong> and bootchart seems to confirm that
[20:55] <jdong> any hints for debugging this?
[21:06] <slangasek> jdong: what makes you think it's stalling?
[21:06] <jdong> no disk IO, just mouse pointer on a console background
[21:06] <slangasek> "mouse pointer on a console background" - standard plymouth bug
[21:14] <jdong> slangasek: ah
[21:16] <jdong> it just seems like from 13 seconds to 57 seconds nothing's "happening"
[21:16] <slangasek> jdong: because your X is wedged.  Ctrl+Alt+F2, Ctrl+Alt+F7 to fix it (maybe)
[21:16] <jdong> ah


[15:47] <Encrypt> Hello there o/
[15:47] <Encrypt> Is there any doc explaining how to work with libunity in C language?
[17:56] <Encrypt> Anybody here? :)
[18:01] <Encrypt> Nope :/