[06:05] <MooDoo> hello all
[06:07] <MartijnVdS> \o
[06:58] <MartijnVdS> http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/r1nP2KSpAJxkBohu.large
[06:59] <MooDoo> lol
[07:50] <popey> Morning all
[07:50] <MartijnVdS> hi popey
[07:55] <MooDoo> morning popey
[08:00] <diddledan> morning
[08:00] <xnox> I like the nice cool, gray cloud, thunderstorm in London at the moment =)
[08:01] <xnox> so nice and cool =)
[08:01] <MartijnVdS> Sun and expected 35°C here in .NL
[08:06] <MooDoo> raining here too
[08:25] <mungbean> just saw somebody watering the plants during a massive downpour
[08:26] <MooDoo> pmsl
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: ...
[08:27] <mungbean> public sector for you
[08:35]  * popey boggles at http://www.scribd.com/doc/157407829/Private-Browser-Sponsorship-Details
[08:36] <mungbean> lol
[08:37] <mungbean> uk.gov should sponsor it. that'll work
[08:37] <mungbean> Are there any other ways we can sponsor Private Browser?
[08:37] <mungbean> If you develop a plugin or extension for either Chromium or Firefox please contact us fordetails on having your plugin/extension installed by default
[08:38] <mungbean> hahaaha-bonk
[08:38] <MartijnVdS> install ALL of the plugins
[08:38]  * DJones prepares to to disappointed or elated when they announce the new Doctor Who on Sunday
[08:38] <mungbean> who do you want? and who we gonna get?
[08:38] <mungbean> i don't ant the creepy guy who appeared in merlin
[08:39] <mungbean> in fact i won't watch it at all if he's the one
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> what if it's Rupert Grint?
[08:39] <SuperMatt> that would be spectacular
[08:40] <SuperMatt> I really do rate him as an actor
[08:40] <mungbean> brian blessed
[08:40] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: that would be.. bombastic
[08:40] <SuperMatt> much higher than the other two, especially Emma Watson who can only talk by wiggling her eyebrows
[08:40] <mungbean> i've never seen or watched harrypotter
[08:40] <mungbean> i know the ginger fellow you mean though
[08:41] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:41] <DJones> I'd like somebody like James Nesbitt to get the part, he's got the right look of insanity that goes with the best of the doctors
[08:41] <popey> i would rather it's a relative unknown
[08:41] <MartijnVdS> popey: it's you, isn't it?
[08:41] <mungbean> maybe will from inbetweeners would be good ;)
[08:41] <SuperMatt> argh
[08:41] <SuperMatt> I hate nesbitt
[08:42] <mungbean> +1
[08:42] <mungbean> housewives favourite for some reason
[08:42] <SuperMatt> he's over used
[08:42] <DJones> popey: I think it will be somebody fairly unknown, that seems to have worked well with Matt Smith, I'd never heard of him when he got the role
[08:42] <SuperMatt> came goes for all the other doctors too
[08:42] <mungbean> colin morgan would be a good un
[08:42] <SuperMatt> it's pretty much tradition to bring someone out of nowhere
[08:43] <mungbean> for bvious reasons, you don't wanna stall your career
[08:43] <SuperMatt> mungbean: the doctor who/merlin fandoms would explode
[08:43] <SuperMatt> tumblr would melt down
[08:43] <SuperMatt> yahoo would go out of business
[08:44] <mungbean> i used to play a game where you guess the moment that merlin would end up with manure on his face in each episode. always happens once
[08:44] <SuperMatt> there's talk that it might be one of the kids from the latest BT adverts
[08:44] <mungbean> adverts? what ar they?
[08:44] <diddledan> it's gotta be a girl, surely? :-p
[08:45] <SuperMatt> I would *love* for it to be a woman
[08:45] <mungbean> nope
[08:45] <SuperMatt> although based on what happened last week, she'd be threatened with rape and murder
[08:45] <diddledan> o_O
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: uh... wut?
[08:46] <SuperMatt> A woman petitioned for Jane Austen to be on the next £10 note
[08:46] <SuperMatt> and got *seriously* harassed for it
[08:46] <mungbean> trolls be trolling
[08:46] <SuperMatt> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/jul/27/twitter-trolls-threats-bank-notes-austen
[08:47] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: and that's when you start filing police reports
[08:47] <SuperMatt> trolls be trolling, but we should be living in a society where no one even considers trolling this because it *should* be normal
[08:48] <mungbean> i admit i haven't paid any attention to the news for a long time
[08:48] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_actors_considered_for_the_part_of_the_Doctor
[08:48] <mungbean> the media highlight stories of their choosing and skew real life
[08:49] <mungbean> horsemeat thing went really quiet because media people decided it had run its course. i'm sure more companies have found it , but they don't bother reporting it anymore cos its outside of the window
[08:49] <mungbean> same for measles etc
[08:49] <mungbean> and you'd think only one little girl has ever gone missing
[08:50] <diddledan> that'll be Madeleine Mccann then :-p
[08:50] <dwatkins> A lot of what I see on the news seems to be just sensationalism for the sake of selling papers.
[08:51] <mungbean> and laziness and bias
[08:51] <DJones> MartijnVdS: Looking at the wikipedia article, I read it to say that "Roy Kinnear was considering becoming the 12 doctor" I know he uses a time machine but even so, that would have been a stretch
[08:51] <mungbean> any article written about something i remotely know about seems to be incorrect
[08:51] <SuperMatt> I enjoyed Russel Brand when he was on some american morning show
[08:51]  * dwatkins wonders if they've considered a woman for the next Doctor
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: this extends to things you don't know about
[08:51] <mungbean> hence i extrapolate that to stories i don't know about too
[08:51] <mungbean> yep
[08:51] <SuperMatt> saying "stop talking what people are wearing and actually report the news"
[08:52] <mungbean> and btw notice the guardian are releasing selected NSA slides
[08:52] <mungbean> they are holding some back for maximum exposure
[08:53] <mungbean> and others for secrecy/outrage
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: sure, but that's also some insurance for Snowden
[08:53] <mungbean> nah
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: if they disappear him, they can drop everything now
[08:53] <dwatkins> I do find it ironic that certain newspapers campaign to stop us from accessing pornographic websites, then dedicate many articles to showing scantily clad celebrities
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> drop = release all the slides
[08:54] <SuperMatt> I quite like it though, because you release something saying that's all you know, the NSA respond, and then you use the rest to prove they're lying
[08:54] <mungbean> but snowden said he could read emails from his desk
[08:55] <mungbean> but didn't he get the ppt from lax rules on the sharepoint server?
[08:55] <dwatkins> SuperMatt: did you see the keynote from the NSA general the other day?
[08:55] <mungbean> so when he said he, he didn't mean he
[08:55] <MartijnVdS> http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2013/aug/02/who-next-doctor-who-sunday <-- they have some guesses as well
[08:55] <SuperMatt> I read a little about it
[08:55] <popey> Peter Capaldi would be brilliant
[08:56] <dwatkins> SuperMatt: he talked a lot about accountability, but as some people pointed-out, the court cases in which they obtain authorisation to see people's e-mail etc. are secret
[08:56] <popey> would just be a shame he can't use the language he used on The Thick of It
[08:56] <dwatkins> Idris Elba would make a superb Doctor.
[08:57] <popey> ooh yeah
[08:58] <SuperMatt> dwatkins: I strongly suggest you grab a copy of The Colbert Report from 31/07, because it *extremely* accurately portrays what is wrong with the NSA and the Bradley Manning trial
[08:59] <dwatkins> thanks SuperMatt, will read with interest
[08:59] <SuperMatt> it's a tv show
[08:59] <dwatkins> oh silly me ;)
[08:59]  * dwatkins adds the video to his watchlist
[08:59]  * dwatkins curses American date formats quietly under his breath
[08:59] <SuperMatt> essentially, because Manning commited "espionage" he must have been working for the enemy. Who benefitted from the intelligence? The American public. Does that make the American public the enemy? Well, the way the NSA are spying them, it sure seems like they are
[09:00] <dwatkins> hooray for poxies
[09:00] <dwatkins> *proxies
[09:00] <SuperMatt> I'm now using the immunicity proxy at home
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> poxy proxies
[09:00] <DJones> It probably won't matter who the new doctor is, long time fans will probably hate the new one until the series has been going for a full series and then will realise that it was a good choice
[09:00] <MooDoo> lol
[09:01] <mungbean> is it still moffat?
[09:01] <MooDoo> sounds about right
[09:01] <dwatkins> From what little detail Gen. Alexander gave at the Blackhat keynote, it seems it should be impossible for the NSA to spy on people without justification, but I suspect there are ways around that.
[09:01] <dwatkins> DJones: I'm more concerned about the writers, actually - many recent episodes have been quite weak, imho
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> just say you have justification, then don't actually have it
[09:01] <mungbean> "people"
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> I mean, who's checking?
[09:01] <mungbean> i thought they justified spying on anyone foreign or anyone with contact with foreigners
[09:01] <mungbean> i.e. us
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> (or: who does the auditor report to)
[09:02] <SuperMatt> and then once you have some evidence, you can piece together a case to go all out on them
[09:02] <DJones> dwatkins: I'd agree with that, I thought the last series was a bit weak
[09:02] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: it's apparently a matter of stopping this by having blocks in the network as well as people being audited and watched
[09:02] <SuperMatt> and what did they say? they could only trace someone if they were 51% certain they were foreign?
[09:02] <SuperMatt> which means they could trace me
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: sure, but if the auditor has no incentive to be fair/honest, you can't trust a system like that
[09:03] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: indeed, you'd have to trust everyone up the chain
[09:03] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: and their blocking system, and know it can't be circumvented
[09:03] <mungbean> i LOLled at a thread on reddit yesterday. somebody got visited by the police because their ex-employer had found fishy stuff in the search history around the time of boston bombing. reddit got the wrong end of stick and spent all night doing google searches thiking the fbi would knock at their door within 20 minutes
[09:04] <MooDoo> lol
[09:04] <dwatkins> mungbean: I wondered about that - so it was basically a tip-off because they'd been searching backpacks and pressure cookers from work?
[09:04] <dwatkins> i.e. employer was overly paranoid and alerted the police
[09:04] <mungbean> yeah, the guy had recently left their employement and the sysadmin probably was clearing up their pc and found stuff
[09:05] <mungbean> probably reported it around the time of the bombing
[09:05] <dwatkins> ...and this is why I use my PC at home as a proxy ;)
[09:05] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:05] <mungbean> also depends on the manner in which the guy left their employ
[09:05] <mungbean> and whether he had a beard
[09:05] <dwatkins> ah yes, obvious sign etc.
[09:06] <mungbean> i just received a message from myspace. somebody signed up with my email address.
[09:08] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy Ice Cream Sandwich Day! :-D
[09:11] <xnox> OMG, friday already?! +) where did the week go.....
[09:11] <dwatkins> Android 4.0?
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: myspace still exists?
[09:12] <mungbean> their email server does
[09:12] <mungbean> create filter from message like this...
[09:12] <mungbean> delete.
[09:14]  * MartijnVdS waits for the DHL man
[09:17] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: anything exciting
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: tickets for F1 at Spa
[09:18] <mungbean> how much are they?
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> they were €130ish when I bought them
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> I think they might have run out by now
[09:19] <mungbean> big bucks
[09:19] <mungbean> for the whole w/end?
[09:19] <MartijnVdS> yes, including GP2, GP3 and Porche Supercup races
[09:43] <MartijnVdS> yay, tickets are here
[09:43] <MooDoo> yay
[09:43] <brobostigon> woop
[09:50] <mungbean> what's ionice pri 4?
[09:50] <mungbean>               The scheduling class. 0 for none, 1 for real time, 2 for best-effort, 3 for idle.
[09:51] <mungbean> ah, the class is set to none
[09:54] <mungbean> no all amazon albums are autoripped?
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> no
[09:56] <mungbean> swines
[09:56] <mungbean> the cd i awnt is at home
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: isn't it on spotify or grooveshark?
[09:58] <mungbean> adverts :(
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> which album?
[09:59] <mungbean> i turn the sound down and forget to turn up again
[10:00] <mungbean> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002YTZPRS
[10:00] <mungbean> wasn't that cheap when i bought it :(
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: well there's bbc iplayer + proms :P
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> (radio iplayer)
[10:01] <mungbean> digging out some other stuff instead
[10:03] <mungbean> ugh i bought joseph's dreamcoat musical for my wife and its on my cloudplayer list :(
[10:07] <directhex> joseph's dreamcast?
[10:08] <mungbean> andrew lloyd wiiber
[10:09] <mungbean> oh..new command for the day. echo $$
[10:09] <MartijnVdS> pid of current shell
[10:09] <mungbean> useful for sudo ionice -c3 -p$$
[10:09] <directhex> new command for the day: LD_SHOW_AUXV=1 /bin/true
[10:10] <mungbean> what's that?
[10:10] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:10] <directhex> (much more useful on ARM)
[10:10] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: AUXV?
[10:10] <directhex> AT_HWCAP:    swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp thumbee neon vfpv3
[10:10] <directhex> :)
[10:11] <MartijnVdS> AT_HWCAP:        bfebfbff
[10:11] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's the specific ARM bits required to run the binary?
[10:11] <MartijnVdS> uh
[10:11] <MartijnVdS> directhex: ^
[10:11] <directhex> MartijnVdS, that's the specific arm capabilities of the platform executing the binary
[10:12] <directhex> MartijnVdS, it's a much more portable way to detect cpu capabilities than /proc/cpuinfo (/proc/cpuinfo doesn't work in qemu)
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> directhex: so.. similar to Flags in /proc/cpuinfo ;)
[10:13] <directhex> /proc/cpuinfo in an arm chroot or qemu generally shows your host cpu's values
[10:13] <directhex> i.e. values like "sse2" which are meaningless on arm, and no values like "vfpv3" which mean things on arm
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> really? weird :)
[10:15] <dwatkins> Does that set the variable then run /bin/true, and the exit code depends on whether the variable could be set or not?
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it sets the environment variable just for the execution of /bin/true
[10:16] <dwatkins> ah ok, just wondered how its output might be anything other than truth
[10:19] <awilkins> Anyone know the way to remove an icon from the systray in JFace / SWT ?
[10:21] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: there's no way to know what extensions are needed to run a binary, short of disassembling it and looking at what instructions it uses
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: The compiler that made the binary might know which extensions it used, and put it somewhere in the metadata
[10:21] <directhex> dwatkins, it sets the variable then runs /bin/true. the Linux linker, ld.so, detects that environment variable & spams the values to the screen. you could use *any* executable, really, but /bin/true is minimal enough not to produce its own spew
[10:22] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: just because the compiler used some set of flags, doesn't mean that it had any effect on the output
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: the compiler knows which instructions it used, right/
[10:23] <directhex> it's not that simple
[10:23] <SuperMatt> http://www.olli-ries.com/i-have-to-try-this/
[10:23] <directhex> let's use Mono as the example (any JITter applies equally, i just know mono internals better)
[10:23] <SuperMatt> try unity 8 today
[10:23] <directhex> you might know what flags mono is built with - but which instructions does it emit when executed?
[10:24] <MartijnVdS> directhex: true..
[10:24] <ali1234> well a JIT is just going to make it even more complicated
[10:24] <directhex> http://blog.alexrp.com/2013/07/21/recent-improvements-to-mono-on-arm/ is interesting and related
[10:25] <ali1234> yeah and then you have executables which have optimized instructions which are protected from being called if the CPU doesn't support it
[10:26] <ali1234> so really even disassembling isn't enough to know "will the binary run on this cpu"
[10:26] <ali1234> unless you actually look at the output and determine how it was compiled
[10:38] <neuro> clearly youtube has detected that i've watched too many videos this morning, so it has decided not to play any more for me
[10:38] <neuro> the video pages load just fine, but it doesn't play videos any more
[10:38] <neuro> youtube = skynet
[10:39] <neuro> the revolution has begun
[10:39] <mungbean> you on talktalk?
[10:39] <SuperMatt> argh
[10:39] <SuperMatt> people shouldn't send emails directly from the camera phone
[10:39] <neuro> mungbean: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
[10:39] <SuperMatt> someone just sent a 10 meg email to 150 people
[10:39] <SuperMatt> which means 1.5 gig has just been used
[10:39] <neuro> not from their phone though
[10:39] <mungbean> neuro: does it say, "how about a nice game of chess"
[10:40] <SuperMatt> email is just the worst
[10:40] <neuro> SuperMatt: you know how email works, right? :)
[10:40] <SuperMatt> yes, I do
[10:40] <MooDoo> bit of friday fun people http://regexcrossword.com/
[10:41] <SuperMatt> it all depends on the config how attachments are stored
[10:41] <neuro> mungbean: actually, there's a knock at the door, hang on ... ooh, there's an american cop asking me if i've seen some kid
[10:41] <SuperMatt> but *many* aren't configured to share the attachments
[10:41] <neuro> SuperMatt: ?
[10:41] <neuro> you just seem to imply that someone sending a 10 meg email to 150 people has used up 1.5G of bandwidth
[10:42] <SuperMatt> yes, it had
[10:42] <SuperMatt> *has
[10:42] <neuro> yes, that's true in aggregate
[10:42] <SuperMatt> because everyone downloaded the email
[10:42] <mungbean> and the contents?
[10:42] <neuro> oh you mean this is on the same email system/
[10:42]  * mungbean is confused too
[10:43] <neuro> i thought you meant some one with a phone had emailed 150 other random people not on the same email system
[10:43] <mungbean> not everyone downloaded the attachments
[10:44] <SuperMatt> my gripe is that users are idiots and don't realise why big attachments can be bad
[10:44] <neuro> yay youtube is playing again
[10:44] <mungbean> what u watching?
[10:44] <mungbean> i thouht u were working?
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I started with a hard one.. done already
[10:44]  * mungbean has a week off next week
[10:44] <mungbean> including no irc
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: we'll miss you!
[10:45] <mungbean> :P
[10:45] <mungbean> *may use irc
[10:45] <mungbean> if get fed up of talking to kids
[10:46] <mungbean> thats not nice. i mean, if i need more variety
[10:46] <neuro> i am working but i'm sick of looking at scripts so i took a 20 minute youtube break
[10:46] <mungbean>  neuro> clearly youtube has detected that i've watched too many videos this morning, so it has decided not to play any more   bigcalm
[10:46] <mungbean> are you playing loads in parallel?
[10:46] <neuro> yeah, i'd watched like 4 3 minute videos
[10:47] <mungbean> i still haven't sorted my nfs server problem :(
[10:47] <neuro> who are you, my HR manager? :)
[10:47]  * bigcalm looks in
[10:47] <mungbean> sorry bigcalm , copy paste fail
[10:47] <bigcalm> Ah, okay
[10:47]  * bigcalm looks out
[10:47] <mungbean> nothing to see here
[10:47]  * bigcalm watches some YouTube vidoes
[10:49] <neuro> actually, when i say youtube break, i mean cig break with some youtube :)
[10:50] <neuro> everyone should be sitting back for a couple of minutes at least every hour anyway
[10:50] <neuro> sitting in front of a keyboard staring at a screen for 8 hours a day isn't good for you
[10:50] <mungbean> i find its mostly smokers who sat that
[10:50] <neuro> um, no
[10:50] <neuro> i don't mean get up, leave the room
[10:51] <neuro> i mean sit back, look away from the screen, refocus your eyes on other stuff around you
[10:51] <mungbean> as a hobby, smoking has got to be one of the least rewarding, judging by cost
[10:51] <neuro> don't remind me
[10:51] <mungbean> yeah, i'm in a basement with an upskirt window beside me
[10:51] <mungbean> sitting around 5ft below ground level
[10:52] <popey> i have a week off irc next week too
[10:52] <mungbean> its usually male cyclists and bin men who sem to be presenting their posteriors to me though ;(
[10:52] <mungbean> gonna try and put the laptop away and build my lancaste
[10:52] <neuro> hmmm, Ace Combat Infinity, PS3 only, free to play, comes out in September
[10:52] <neuro> not sure how i feel about that
[10:53] <neuro> <- Ace Combat geek
[10:54] <Myrtti> I want a hot tub holiday :-( but life and timing sucks at the moment
[10:54] <mungbean> i will be mostly gardening and sharing the childcare
[10:56] <popey> I will mostly be sitting in tapas bars eating tapas and drinking wine and / or beer
[10:56] <neuro> spain?
[10:56] <MartijnVdS> popey: Sangria!
[10:56] <MartijnVdS> popey: (oh wait, you weren't at that proto-UDS ;))
[10:56] <mungbean> avoid the san miguel
[10:57] <MartijnVdS> popey: The post-4.10 "UDS" in Mataro was a very sangria-rich experience 8-)
[10:57] <neuro> estrella dam ftw
[10:58] <mungbean> actually all spanish beers make my tummy rot
[10:58] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can order some Dutch ones instead
[10:58] <MartijnVdS> :P
[10:58] <popey> specifically this one:- http://bit.ly/16Ml2Up
[10:59] <awilkins> If I was a Boss, I'd probably buy smokers e-ciggies and ban them from taking incendiary smoke breaks
[10:59] <MartijnVdS> popey: next to a pharmacy.. to cure the hangover? ;)
[10:59] <awilkins> Let them argue about that one....
[10:59] <neuro> that's discriminatory, and thus illegal
[10:59] <awilkins> Hmm
[10:59] <awilkins> Maybe just buy them e-cigs and let them use them in the office
[11:00] <mungbean> its not discriminatory
[11:00] <mungbean> to ban smoking
[11:00] <neuro> you'd force people to smoke e-cigs?
[11:00] <awilkins> No
[11:00] <mungbean> since he will ban smking for everyone
[11:00] <MartijnVdS> neuro: no, they can also just sit there not smoking anything
[11:00] <awilkins> I work for the NHS - we already have rules that our staff are not permitted to smoke in the building, near the building, or when they are visibly identifiable as NHS employees (ie - wearing their badge)
[11:01] <SuperMatt> I imagine the doctors and nurses don't generally smoke?
[11:01] <awilkins> Giving them a means of filling their nicotine craving without the distracting and counterproductive breaks seems to be anti-discriminatory
[11:01] <popey> SuperMatt: of course they do
[11:01] <SuperMatt> though I'm sure that contractors do
[11:02] <mungbean> smkoing amonst nursing/doctors is huge
[11:02] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: you'd be surprised
[11:02] <mungbean> more than other professions
[11:02] <awilkins> Oh hell, yes, most of the nurses I've dated smoked like chimneys
[11:02] <mungbean> lol
[11:02] <mungbean> sounds like u get around
[11:02] <SuperMatt> really? I would have thought seeing cancerous lungs, and people only able to breath with aid, that they would be put off it
[11:02] <awilkins> In the past
[11:03] <awilkins> I was a doctor once - I'd say the stress drives you into drinking / smoking more than average
[11:03] <SuperMatt> oh right
[11:03] <mungbean> if you've never smoked , i wonder why you'd think you'd need a fag
[11:03] <awilkins> I've never been a smoker but I have had periods when I'd drink for stress reasons
[11:03] <neuro> awilkins: you can't ban smokers from taking smoke breaks
[11:03] <neuro> nor can you ban them from smoking, full stop
[11:03] <SuperMatt> I was told by my GP once that I should go drinking more
[11:03] <mungbean> sure you can
[11:03] <SuperMatt> I had terrible stress headaches
[11:04] <neuro> what you *can* do is ban smoking *on the premises*
[11:04] <neuro> e.g. at the front door, on the grounds, etc
[11:04] <mungbean> "your precribed hours are X" "your break time is Y"
[11:04] <awilkins> neuro, It's already illegal in the UK to smoke in any working premises
[11:04] <awilkins> Whether you work there or not
[11:04] <neuro> awilkins: i didn't say "in"
[11:04] <mungbean> i worked with somebody that didn't touch a fag all day, then chain smoked at home
[11:04] <neuro> you can discipline staff for taking excessive breaks
[11:04] <awilkins> neuro, I know - we can't ban it we just make it very inconvenient
[11:04] <neuro> but talking about e-cigs is irresponsible
[11:05] <neuro> especially considering they are potentially unhealthy
[11:05] <awilkins> I was thinking if you made it easier for them not to have to take a smoke break, that would improve productivity
[11:05] <neuro> mungbean: i'm kinda like that
[11:05] <awilkins> They are way less unhealthy than incendiary ones
[11:05] <SuperMatt> do we have any good studies on that?
[11:05] <SuperMatt> because I've started to notice *kids* smoking them
[11:05] <mungbean> why?
[11:05] <neuro> wtf
[11:05] <SuperMatt> yeah
[11:05] <awilkins> No studies. But the majority of carcinogens in burning fags come from the burning process
[11:05] <SuperMatt> because it's legal for them to do so
[11:05] <neuro> http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/06June/Pages/e-cigarettes-and-vaping.aspx
[11:06] <neuro> e-cigs are currently unlicensed
[11:06] <mungbean> does it make you feel nice?
[11:06] <mungbean> i'm sure other things do too
[11:06] <mungbean> like riding a bike
[11:06] <mungbean> and playing xbox
[11:06] <awilkins> Smoke contains this vast chemical cocktail of nasty things with ring-molecules of carbon in
[11:06] <awilkins> Nicotine is a neurotoxin, sure, but not a carcinogen
[11:07] <neuro> SuperMatt: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/drugs/Scienceresearch/UCM173250.pdf
[11:07] <neuro> please, do continue to elucidate on the badness of smoking
[11:07] <neuro> while i spark up this marlboro gold ...
[11:07] <mungbean> SuperMatt: so you're suggesting some kids are maybe starting the hobby straight onto e-cigs?
[11:07] <neuro> hobby?
[11:07] <mgdm> "hobby", eh
[11:07] <mungbean> well thats how it starts
[11:08] <mungbean> its not a habit on your first fag
[11:08] <mungbean> or the 10th
[11:08] <awilkins> Hmm, that study is like comparing a study of a clean room to a study of a foundry floor
[11:08] <mungbean> yes, definitely a hobby
[11:08] <SuperMatt> mungbean: yup
[11:09] <mungbean> An activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure.
[11:09] <SuperMatt> now, if that means they go on to real cigaretts, that's a bad thing
[11:09] <awilkins> They have a nice clean piece of apparatus and use a gas chromatograph... with burning fags they study "tars" - which sounds cleaner....
[11:09] <neuro> hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
[11:09] <SuperMatt> if it actually keeps kids off cigarettes, then we have to look at the impact of that
[11:09] <neuro> mungbean: so you'd call going out to the pub a "hobby"?
[11:09] <awilkins> The baccy companies have successfully lobbyed the UK to classify the ecigs as medical devices now though
[11:09] <mungbean> yes, its a pastime
[11:10] <SuperMatt> anything done recreationally to pass the time is a hobby, I would have thought
[11:10] <awilkins> That will make them stupidly expensive instead of the current "pretty cheap" compared to fags (mostly because of the tax)
[11:10] <mungbean> or maybe i'd call it socialising
[11:10] <awilkins> It's a drug habit
[11:10] <neuro> i'm smoking by myself, how is it socialising?
[11:10] <awilkins> A socially accepted one
[11:10] <mungbean> the pub with friends is socialising
[11:10] <awilkins> But a drug habit, like ethanol, caffeine
[11:10] <mungbean> *starting* e-cigs is a hobby
[11:11] <awilkins> People make their own concoctions for them - that seems rather more hobbyist than buying tobacco
[11:11] <awilkins> They even make nicotine free ones
[11:11] <mungbean> smoking never starts as a habit
[11:11] <awilkins> The psychological component of the act of inhalation etc can't be dismissed
[11:12] <awilkins> Smoking is sufficiently disgusting that the only sensible explanations of taking it up are peer pressure and nicotine addiction
[11:12] <mungbean> you could call it a hobby of self-euthanasia ;)
[11:12] <mungbean> awilkins: but when does nicotine additction start?
[11:12] <neuro> awilkins: clearly, you're not a smoker
[11:13] <awilkins> neuro, No, my father was, so I lived with it much of my life
[11:13] <mungbean> boredom, peer pressure, parental example, rebellion
[11:13] <awilkins> neuro, So I do know about it being disgusting
[11:13]  * neuro started smoking to combat stress
[11:13] <mungbean> how did you know it would help?
[11:13] <neuro> because i knew a lot of people who smoked
[11:14] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: it helps non-smokers.. once you're addicted/used to nicotine, it seems to help, but that's because the baseline has moved
[11:14] <mungbean> who all wanted to give up
[11:14] <mungbean> but suggested you start anyway?
[11:14] <neuro> nope
[11:14] <neuro> no one suggested i start
[11:14] <mungbean> i know  a few smokers who used to
[11:14] <mungbean> when smkiong in pubs
[11:15] <neuro> ah, halcyon days
[11:15] <mungbean> was allowed, the friend got drunk and wanted a fag.
[11:15] <mungbean> smoker should say "no you don't smoke you chump"
[11:15] <mungbean> but nay
[11:15] <mungbean> and a social smoker is born
[11:15] <neuro> that's nothing to do with being a smoker
[11:15] <neuro> that's more to do with being an idiot
[11:15] <neuro> i never encourage people to smoke
[11:15] <popey> try to keep my kids away from smokers
[11:15] <popey> not easy when people in the family smoke
[11:15] <mungbean> +1 popey
[11:16] <mungbean> getting smoking out of pubs has helped, although i dislike the guard of honour of smokers outside
[11:16] <neuro> popey: why keep them away?  yes, when they are smoking, sure, but at any other time?
[11:17] <mungbean> its also proven that if a parent smokes outside the home only, incidences of glue ear are raised among young children
[11:17] <mungbean> so dad only smokes in garden - still affects children
[11:17] <popey> because passive smoke isn't good for them
[11:18] <neuro> that doesn't really answer my specific question :)
[11:18] <popey> and people who smoke tend to do that often enough
[11:18] <popey> gimmie a chance
[11:18] <neuro> oh ok :)
[11:19] <popey> so if I go to someone's house who smoke, kids will be around someone who _is_ smoking, or has just finished a cigarette for a fair amount of the time we're there
[11:19] <popey> people don't stop smoking just because kids are about
[11:19] <popey> they carry on as usual, maybe outside, maybe not
[11:19] <ali1234> wat
[11:19] <popey> even if they're outside, the particulates they breathe out still get breathed out afterwards
[11:19] <mungbean> just like people who don't think they wear in front of their kids. and you think , hmmm who taught them to talk like that then?
[11:19] <mungbean> ^wear^swear
[11:19] <neuro> mungbean: their peers
[11:20] <neuro> popey: that's generalising to an extent, but i understand
[11:20] <mungbean> no, its the parents. they just think they don't when they blatantly do
[11:20] <popey> no. no it isn't
[11:20] <popey> its experience
[11:20] <mungbean> particulates also adhere to clothing fibres
[11:20] <popey> my brother, sister and mother in law all smoke around my kids, and outside the house when we visit
[11:20] <neuro> popey: you've visited every smoker in the UK? :) I certainly wouldn't smoke around kids
[11:20] <popey> but they do _still_ smoke
[11:20] <mungbean> when i buy stuff 2nd hand, i know within 1 second if its been in a smokers house
[11:21] <popey> dont be daft
[11:21] <popey> i did say "try"
[11:21] <neuro> mungbean: my parents very rarely swore in front of me, and chided me strongly when i did; i picked up all my swearing at school
[11:21] <mungbean> i'm talking about toddlers. using as an example of people who say one thing but rarely keep it up for laziness sake
[11:21] <popey> the fact that my daughter has a medical condition which can be made significantly worse by 2nd hand smoke makes me somewhat more aware
[11:22] <mungbean> "i'll just have a fag out of the window"
[11:22] <mungbean> worst idea ever
[11:22] <popey> hah, yeah
[11:22] <popey> standing by the back door because theyt dont want to go in the rain
[11:22] <popey> as the wind blows the smoke into the house
[11:22] <mungbean> exactly
[11:22] <popey> *belm*
[11:22] <MartijnVdS> or the same in a car
[11:22] <neuro> popey: i meant you were generalising about the behaviour of smokers in total, not saying your personal experience is wrong or faulty, or that your reaction based on that is wrong
[11:22] <MartijnVdS> "I can smoke in the car because I opened a window"
[11:22] <MartijnVdS> uhhhh
[11:22] <mungbean> in a car is like smoking the fag yourself
[11:22] <neuro> like i said, i wouldn't smoke around kids
[11:22] <popey> neuro: we'll agree to disagree then
[11:23] <popey> my experience tells me the vast majority of smokers are selfish in this regard and refuse to accept any other pov
[11:23] <mungbean> clothing particles and breath still carry cancerous particulates
[11:23] <neuro> sure, that just means that unfortunately the people who smoke who you have met are irresponsible selfish gits
[11:23] <isleofmandan> My first car was a very old second hand Fiesta. I never did get the yellow stickiness off the roof lining and plastic parts from the previous owner. Ewww..
[11:23] <neuro> ewww
[11:23] <mungbean> all that tar coating is handy in the rain
[11:24] <mungbean> smoking is inherently a selfish hobby/habit
[11:24] <neuro> that has never happened to any of my cars, what on earth did previous owner do, smoke constantly with the windows up?
[11:24] <isleofmandan> Who knows? Probably. It was very very yuckky...
[11:24] <neuro> @(
[11:24] <neuro> :(
[11:24] <mungbean> neuro: check the insides of your PC. should be stained
[11:25] <ali1234> the inside of my PC is not stained, nor is my ceiling yellow
[11:25] <neuro> nope, no stains
[11:25] <mungbean> PC fans were all stained and stinky when i accidentally bought from a smoker
[11:25] <ali1234> you have to smoke like 5 packs a day with the windows shut before that happens
[11:25] <mungbean> clear fan was yellow
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: Several PC repair shops in my area have stopped repairing smoker's PCs
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> because of the gunk
[11:26] <popey> ali1234: nah, my mum had to wash the net curtains frequently after my bro/sis smoked so much
[11:26] <popey> they went from yellow to brilliant white
[11:26] <popey> DAZ!
[11:26] <popey> etc
[11:26] <neuro> lol
[11:26] <popey> and the ceiling had to be painted
[11:26] <mungbean> they smoked at home?
[11:26] <popey> Note: not an advert for daz
[11:26] <popey> years ago, yes
[11:26] <mungbean> late teenagers?
[11:26] <popey> talking ~20 years back
[11:26] <neuro> "Other cleaning products are available."
[11:26] <popey> yeah, 19-25
[11:26] <popey> indeed
[11:26] <mungbean> rebellion is dumb
[11:27] <mgdm> neuro: remind me to make a "Because of the unique way Ubuntu Edge is funded..."
[11:34] <popey> ahhh
[11:34] <popey> nice
[11:35] <mungbean> my sister quit
[11:35] <neuro> well, not nice :)
[11:35] <mungbean> proud of her
[11:35] <neuro> but interesting
[11:35] <popey> that tapas bar I lined to earlier, was his fave
[11:35] <neuro> looks cool
[11:35]  * mungbean gets sad about his own dad who didn't smoke
[11:35]  * neuro misses patatas bravas in BCN
[11:35] <davmor2> popey: you do lines of tapas bars :D
[11:35] <popey> TOPIC CHANGE!
[11:35] <popey> So how about that local sports team huh?
[11:36] <neuro> aunt bessie's roast potatoes plus tesco's bravas sauce isn't quite the same
[11:36] <mungbean> !lunchtime
[11:36] <neuro> and calamari ...
[11:36] <MartijnVdS> popey: you mean the football club that had 5 members banned because they attacked the opposing team after losing a match?
[11:36] <neuro> cold meats ...
[11:36] <mungbean> bit of a weird day today
[11:36]  * neuro wants to go back to barcelona :P
[11:36] <mungbean> loads of people on hols
[11:36] <neuro> yeah
[11:36] <mungbean> no email since 9.53
[11:36] <popey> reminds me, want to make hassleback potatoes
[11:36] <neuro> my boss is in ibiza right now
[11:37] <neuro> popey: knight rider totties?
[11:37] <popey> hah
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> neuro: you had this perfect dream?
[11:37] <neuro> ?
[11:37] <popey> http://allrecipes.co.uk/recipe/7535/hasselback-potatoes.aspx
[11:37] <popey> nom
[11:37] <neuro> woah
[11:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> 377 for 5. Going to be a draw I reckon.
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> neuro: Freddie Mercury & Montserrat Caballe - Barcelona; lyrics of
[11:37] <neuro> MartijnVdS: oh, ok
[11:38] <neuro> TheOpenSourcerer: are you watching some freakish batball game thing?
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> Quidditch?
[11:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - just bbc updates on the web
[11:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/23542976
[11:38] <davmor2> popey: surely with the knight rider link those should be hasselhoff-potatoes :)
[11:38] <neuro> davmor2: welcome to my joke
[11:39]  * neuro has never understood batball
[11:39] <popey> lol batball
[11:39] <mungbean> ok explain me this...on track 9 of an album and no ads yet - spotify
[11:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> Time to wander into town and get a sarny.
[11:39] <neuro> the thrower chucks the ball at the man with the stick and it's an over arm under belly king woogly on the sticky wicket leg before wing tum te tum
[11:40] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: advertisers hate your demographic
[11:40] <mungbean> its not regular spotify
[11:40] <davmor2> neuro: it's stickball that the scotts invented but the bunkers and rough is the oppositions hands
[11:40] <mungbean> but a link from channel4 website to check out the album
[11:40] <neuro> who are the scotts?
[11:40] <neuro> are they a family who live near you?
[11:40] <mungbean> did they do something funky?
[11:40] <davmor2> neuro: -t
[11:40] <neuro> :)
[11:41] <mungbean> https://play.spotify.com/album/5tYmFy0RCba5vUkLFJzaQL
[11:41] <neuro> robin williams has a great rant about how us scots invented golf, but it's too sweary to repeat any of it here :)
[11:41] <mungbean> AARRRGH just got an ad
[11:41] <neuro> THEY'RE LISTENING
[11:41] <mungbean> scummers
[11:41]  * neuro doesn't know what these ... "ads" are of which you speak
[11:42] <neuro> ohhhhhhhhhhh
[11:42] <neuro> cracking music choice sir
[11:42] <mungbean> great working music
[11:42] <davmor2> neuro: Yay I think I saw that, didn't he do part of the routine in Gooooooooooooooooooooooooood Moooooooooooorrrrrrrning Vietnam
[11:42] <mungbean> or ircing as it has mostly been this morn
[11:42] <neuro> don't think so
[11:42] <neuro> was on one of his more recent stand up shows
[11:43] <neuro> mogwai are generally awesome
[11:43] <davmor2> neuro: ah no not seen it then
[11:43] <neuro> davmor2: the youtubes will undoubtedly be able to help you out
[11:43] <mungbean> which albuim would you recommend for more of the same
[11:43] <neuro> all of them
[11:43] <davmor2> neuro: indeed I'll save it for tonight though
[11:43] <mungbean> all they are slow and chilled/ponderous?
[11:44] <neuro> pretty much
[11:44] <mungbean> i also listen to lali puna
[11:44] <mungbean> in that same vein
[11:44] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: Boards of Canada?
[11:44] <mungbean> nope but they get recommended to me
[11:44] <neuro> young team and mr beast are probably the most accessible to be getting on with
[11:44] <mungbean> ta
[11:44] <neuro> but to be honest their whole discography pretty much kicks ass
[11:45] <mungbean> will pick the cheapest ;)
[11:45] <neuro> :)
[11:45] <neuro> spotify them!
[11:45] <mungbean> although may have some gift certs from filling out a survey
[11:46] <neuro> they have a couple of tracks from mr beast in the miami vice movie
[11:46] <neuro> they work really well
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: Akufen - My Way
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: also, http://open.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/2UHNlhHRMcziirEn188343  :)
[11:46] <mungbean> luncheon
[11:46] <neuro> as much as i like post rock, i never have really made time for boards of canada
[11:46] <neuro> i really should
[11:47] <neuro> and godspeed you black emperor
[11:47] <mungbean> i don't let it dominiate my musical portfolio but that + classical music and piano music (yann tiersen etc) are good for working to
[11:48] <neuro> i do the same with soundtracks
[11:48] <neuro> but occasionally i need loud stuff
[11:48] <neuro> most of the smoothwall commercial website was built thanks to Juno Reactor
[11:48] <bigcalm> That's a name from the past
[11:49] <neuro> aye
[11:49] <bigcalm> I enjoyed their pre-matrix work
[11:49] <neuro> me too
[11:50]  * bigcalm digs out the mp3s
[11:50] <neuro> :)
[11:50] <Laney> spotify web player borked? :(
[11:50] <Laney> "Can't connect to Spotify. Trying again now."
[11:50] <neuro> wfm
[11:51] <Laney> WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYY
[11:51] <MartijnVdS> Laney: call your ISP, ask if you can get adult internet instead of the children's playground web
[11:51] <bigcalm> Heh
[11:51] <Laney> I want the AOL-style internet back
[11:51] <jussi> Laney: you just won the internet...
[11:52] <bigcalm> O M G
[11:52] <bigcalm> Thought I'd lost my old mp3 collection
[11:52] <bigcalm> Turns out that it never got moved from my parents' server when I moved out
[11:53] <neuro> lol
[11:53] <neuro> ENGAGE THE RSYNCS!
[11:53] <davmor2> bigcalm: no it's that large pile of vinyl to your left ;)
[11:53] <neuro> Laney: AOL-style internet?
[11:53]  * bigcalm starts leeching 58GB
[11:53]  * neuro tuts
[11:53] <neuro> bigcalm: good luck with that :)
[11:53] <bigcalm> neuro: most of that are OGGs from CDs I own
[11:54] <neuro> i'm trying to figure out how to get 90 gig of zipped log files from here to head office
[11:54] <neuro> over a 4 meg link
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> neuro: by waiting
[11:54] <bigcalm> I think I'll just take a USB HDD with me then next time I visit the parents
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> neuro: unzip first, then 7zip, then send?
[11:54] <neuro> s/7zip/bzip2/ yeah
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> neuro: put on USB disk, drive to head office?
[11:54] <bigcalm> But, right now, I want my Juno Reactor!
[11:54] <neuro> but i'll need to throttle it so i don't kill the office
[11:54] <neuro> MartijnVdS: head office is ~ 400 miles away
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> neuro: still faster than using wires
[11:55] <davmor2> neuro: A portable hdd
[11:55] <neuro> but more hassle
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> neuro: ROAD TRIP
[11:55] <jussi> neuro: just keep zipping the zip - it gets smaller everytime, right? :P :P
[11:55] <neuro> but hassle
[11:55] <neuro> jussi: never thought of that!!!!
[11:55] <bigcalm> Send them a HDD to copy onto and have them post it to you
[11:55] <neuro> bzip2 -9 stuff.log | bzip -9 | bzip -9 | bzip -9 > stuff.log.bz2.bz2.bz2.bz2
[11:56] <dwatkins> neuro: never underestimate the bandwidth of a $VEHICLE full of $STORAGE_MEDIUM hurtling down the highway - http://what-if.xkcd.com/31/
[11:56] <neuro> bigcalm: going in the other direction
[11:56] <neuro> downloaded it from our DR server in the states
[11:56] <neuro> took an age at about 10Mbps
[11:56] <bigcalm> Oh, that way around
[11:56] <dwatkins> how about uploading from your current location, then getting someone or a machine in the office to download it with a throttled connection?
[11:56]  * bigcalm can't read
[11:57] <neuro> dwatkins: that would take even longer
[11:57] <dwatkins> neuro: ah ok, courier time, then I guess
[11:57] <neuro> but hassle
[11:57] <neuro> it's not so urgent that it needs a courier
[11:57] <neuro> it's just historical web log data
[11:58] <neuro> it definitely won't be 90 gig by the time i'm finished unzipping and bzipping
[11:58] <dwatkins> 90 GB is almost half my monthly internet usage cap.
[11:59]  * dwatkins made the mistake of signing-up for a year with IDNet and can't wait until May
[11:59] <neuro> usage caps, hahahahahaha
[11:59] <neuro> sorry
[11:59] <dwatkins> I thought 100 GB would be plenty, but I didn't realise quite how much internets I use.
[11:59] <dwatkins> yeah, it's amusing, it's also making me curb my internet usage a little.
[11:59] <bigcalm> 1.5GB of Juno Reactor is being SCPd at 114KB/s - I should have started this in a screen
[12:00] <dwatkins> I was going to setup a backup script with my brother, but we'll wait until I'm back on unlimited.
[12:00] <neuro> bigcalm: ;)
[12:00] <neuro> dwatkins: rsnapshot
[12:00] <dwatkins> isn't there a way to take the current terminal and move it into a screen session?
[12:00] <bigcalm> Just sent a "sorry I'm crippling your bandwidth" message to my Dad
[12:00] <dwatkins> if not, there should be ;)
[12:00] <neuro> hehe
[12:00] <dwatkins> nohup or somesuch
[12:01] <neuro> nohup just shoves a backgrounded task off your terminal
[12:01] <dwatkins> could you then grab hold of the pts?
[12:01] <bigcalm> Beyond The Infinite  Luciana            Shango Tour 2001 Tokyo  Transmissions
[12:01] <bigcalm> Bible Of Dreams      Odyssey 1992-2002  The Remixes
[12:01] <bigcalm> Labyrinth            Shango             The Singles & EPs
[12:01] <bigcalm> Oops, sorry
[12:01] <neuro> nice
[12:02] <dwatkins> Labyrinth is a great film.
[12:02] <bigcalm> So it is, not related though
[12:03] <neuro> i don't appear to have Luciana or the live/remix/singles stuff you have :(
[12:03] <neuro> but i do have Hotaka
[12:03] <neuro> the single
[12:04] <neuro> "I cannot send e mail via my Samsung Note2. It continually fails. The settings I am using are the ones outlined in the manual. It comes back with Server Error."
[12:04] <neuro> welcome to my afternoon
[12:04] <dwatkins> joy
[12:04] <neuro> so tempted just to reply back "eff off, it's friday, go to the pub"
[12:05] <dwatkins> what manual? if it's the Samsung one, it probably doesn't have anything specific to the company server in it.
[12:05] <neuro> our company/franchisee operations manual
[12:05] <neuro> has our email configs in it
[12:06] <dwatkins> ah ok, like me looking up something in the knowledgebase I assume
[12:06] <neuro> yeah
[12:06] <dwatkins> get them to reset their password, that should take a while ;)
[12:07] <neuro> lol
[12:07] <dwatkins> It also has the advantage of being a possible solution...
[12:08] <MartijnVdS> "No, you should change your password *again*. Yes that's the 3rd time in a row. It might work though!"
[12:08] <MartijnVdS> just cargo-cult along with them
[12:09] <neuro> i also had a member of staff ask me today what ETA meant
[12:09] <MartijnVdS> As ASAP as possible?
[12:09] <neuro> enter your PIN number
[12:09] <dwatkins> "Please look up the TLA list"
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: well: http://jtv.home.xs4all.nl/gtf/
[12:10] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: handy
[12:10] <dwatkins> Oh my goodness, what on earth, be right back, bar-be-queue...
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: by launchpad h4x0r https://launchpad.net/~jtv ;)
[12:11] <dwatkins> for maximum hax
[12:11] <dwatkins> sorry, h4x
[12:11] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: well, he used to be a coworker at the previous ISP I worked at ;)
[12:12] <dwatkins> H4ck the pl4n3t!
[12:12] <MartijnVdS> d00dz!
[12:12] <dwatkins> *ahem* please excuse me, I don't know what came over me there.
[12:12]  * dwatkins reaches for his mug of tea
[12:12] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: you're on IRC, speaking like a h4x0r.. you're living the hollywood dream ;)
[12:13] <dwatkins> ooh yeah, you knows it
[12:22] <jussi> my latest drool item... http://is.gd/pwXSg5
[12:23]  * dwatkins hands jussi a cloth with which to wipe it clean
[12:24] <jussi> dwatkins: unfortunately I dont own it yet... I just drool over actually owning one
[12:24] <jussi> :D
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> too bad it's a sony
[12:24] <dwatkins> aw shame, looks nice
[12:24] <jussi> MartijnVdS: why is that?
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> jussi: Sony build quality tends to be shaky
[12:28] <neuro> it's a bit crap, says The Verge: http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/4/4395926/sony-vaio-pro-review-were-going-to-war-with-the-macbook-air
[12:28] <MartijnVdS> neuro: doesn't the verge say that about everything though?
[12:28] <neuro> nope
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> only if they're not paid enough?
[12:30] <popey> the photo on that verge page makes the sony look like plastic crap
[12:30] <popey> (just like very sony before it)
[12:30] <neuro> yeah, that's what i thought
[12:37] <awilkins> The keyboard looks like the point-of-sale terminal keyboards in my local hardware retailer
[12:39] <popey> https://www.wfh.io/jobs/
[12:39] <popey> interesting
[12:39] <popey> remote jobs
[12:39] <dwatkins> neat
[12:43] <MooDoo> ooo interesting
[12:46]  * jussi notes Nomovok is hiring atm...
[12:55] <mungbean> sounds very russian
[12:59] <SuperMatt> man, I can't get my head around the byobu documentation. What do I do if I want to creat a session with a particular name?
[13:01] <dwatkins> can't you name it like with screen's ctrl+a,A ?
[13:01] <SuperMatt> no, I mean a completely new set of windows
[13:01] <SuperMatt> so one set for one group of things, and another set for another group of things
[13:02] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: are you using screen or tmux?
[13:03] <SuperMatt> tmux, it seems
[13:03] <mungbean> i got confused looking at all that stuff and just end up using terminal with tabs, and the occasional screen session
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: you can use "tmux new" to create a new session
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: or "byobu new":
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> and "byobu list-sessions" to get a list
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> via: http://mutelight.org/practical-tmux
[13:05] <SuperMatt> oh, so it just uses the tmux commands?
[13:06] <MartijnVdS> unless you set it to use screen instead
[13:07] <SuperMatt> I thought it always used screen by default, but I guess I was wrong
[13:07] <MartijnVdS> screen can't do proper unicode 6
[13:08] <mungbean> "do"?
[13:08] <mungbean> enter or display
[13:08] <MartijnVdS> both
[13:08] <MartijnVdS> it mangles it on both input and output
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> 😷
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> tmux can
[13:09] <SuperMatt> I see
[13:09] <mungbean> what was that btw
[13:09] <SuperMatt> well, now I know what to do
[13:09] <SuperMatt> thanks
[13:09] <mungbean> the only time i need unicode is when MartijnVdS pastes it
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
[13:10] <mungbean> that works
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> 🚁
[13:10] <mungbean> fail
[13:10] <popey> ☻
[13:10] <mungbean> work
[13:11] <popey> yeah the fail one fails for me too
[13:11] <mungbean> i can handle it
[13:11] <mungbean> for the sake of not having to learn something new
[13:11] <mungbean> cos my brain is ageing
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> Install this in ~/.fonts -- http://archive.org/details/Symbola
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> that contains all the new-fangled unicode 6 characters
[13:16] <mungbean> the ttfs?
[13:16] <mungbean> done, plus fc-cache
[13:17] <MartijnVdS> may need to restart the app
[13:17] <mungbean> :(
[13:17] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can test here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emoticons#Unicode_characters
[13:18] <mungbean> i run screen on a remote server :-\
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: sure, but you need to restart the *local* app; also, screen doesn't do Unicode 6
[13:18] <mungbean> i'll wait till irssi poos itself next
[13:19] <popey> hah, thats what i do
[13:19] <mungbean> then i copy paste all the bits i need to do
[13:19] <mungbean> nicklist screen
[13:19] <mungbean> colours etc
[13:26] <mungbean> any amanda/zmanda users?
[13:30] <mungbean> i'ev inherited a amanda backup srver and a bit lost
[13:44] <mrparry> #freecad
[14:00] <mungbean> neuro: i think i prefer the mogwai soundtracks
[14:00] <mungbean> their albums are a bit shoegazing
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: have you tried my "Chillax" playlist? Or "My Way" by Akufen? :)
[14:03] <mungbean> am trying the former
[14:03] <mungbean> the latter n'existe pas sur spotify
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: hmm..
[14:23] <mungbean> what's the domain name hosting company that sounds like buddha hosting?
[14:24] <MooDoo> ghandi
[14:24] <mungbean> thats it lol. thanks
[14:25] <MooDoo> ghandi.net
[14:25] <MooDoo> http://en.gandi.net/
[14:25] <MooDoo> imeant that
[14:25] <mungbean> yep
[14:25] <mungbean> buddha lol
[14:36] <livingdaylight> hia
[14:38] <popey> hello
[14:51] <KrimZon_2> does anyone know why graphical sudo wouldn't work in ubuntu 12.04 via xrdp? It seems to be asking for passwords in a non-existent terminal instead
[14:52] <brobostigon> is this gksudo we are talking about ?
[14:57] <KrimZon_2> not sure
[14:57] <KrimZon_2> it's whatever gets called when a program wants to escalate privileges
[14:58] <KrimZon_2> like clicking "Install Updates" in the update manager
[15:00] <popey> yeah, thats gksudo
[15:00] <KrimZon_2> i can run it from the terminal, but other programs aren't working properly
[15:00] <davmor2> popey: isn't it policykit?
[15:00] <popey> oh, maybe
[15:02] <davmor2> popey, KrimZon_2: if it is policykit then there might be a policy that blocks it if you aren't on the physical machine,  you could try gksudo update-manager and see if that gets around it, maybe?
[15:04] <KrimZon_2> how do I edit the policies?
[15:05] <davmor2> KrimZon_2: no idea
[15:06] <davmor2> KrimZon_2: I just know that policykit was able to have them which was one reason to use it over gksudo
[15:06] <davmor2> KrimZon_2: possibly /etc/apparmour or something like that
[15:38] <daftykins> http://tinypic.com/r/ww15ao/5
[15:38] <daftykins> that's how to play a stealth game :)
[15:39] <bigcalm> Silly NPC
[15:39] <daftykins> :>
[15:39] <popey> hah
[15:40] <daftykins> "omg ladders!"
[15:46] <shauno> hah, nice.  even donkey kong had that figured out
[15:48] <davmor2> omg snakes we should get them together I bet it would make a smashing game
[15:48] <daftykins> davmor2: ?
[15:48] <daftykins> oh - and ladders -_-
[15:49] <daftykins> shocking :(
[15:49] <davmor2> daftykins: lol
[16:52] <daftykins> in other news i'd like to submit this in the most fudged disk competition: http://i.imgur.com/Q3DRt6A.png
[16:53] <MartijnVdS> oh wow
[16:53] <MartijnVdS> Backup NOA
[16:53] <MartijnVdS> NAO
[16:53] <daftykins> it was one of a pair in a RAID-1'd NAS :)
[16:54] <daftykins> which itself is a time machine destination
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> *whistles Dr Who theme*
[16:55] <daftykins> don't watch it.
[16:55] <daftykins> don't intend to
[16:55] <neuro> harsh
[16:55] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: but you at least know it's about a time-traveling alien, right?
[16:55] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: hence "time machine destination" -> theme song
[16:56] <daftykins> i had a VHS with the weird underwater fishy lizard looking people attacking John Pertwee as a kid
[16:56] <daftykins> so yeah, i'm aware of it :)
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> https://www.trustwave.com/spiderlabs/advisories/TWSL2013-020.txt
[16:57] <daftykins> O_O
[16:58] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: a bluetooth toilet has a default (guessable) PIN
[16:58] <MartijnVdS> Much fun to be had!
[16:58] <daftykins> that would be one devilish neighbour to 1) know your toilet and 2) consume much water
[16:58] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: yeah, i can read!
[16:58] <MartijnVdS> I'd toggle the bidet function randomly
[16:59] <daftykins> erk >_<
[17:00] <brobostigon> lol
[17:33] <livingdaylight> anyone care to comment; whether a dedicated graphics card is a good thing in a laptop, rather than an onboard one. Makes the chassis hotter, correct?
[17:34] <daftykins> depends on how well the thermal solution is
[17:34] <livingdaylight> I'm looking for a sweet 17" laptop, any recommendations there would be welcome too
[17:34] <daftykins> +designed
[17:34] <daftykins> why so big?
[17:34] <livingdaylight> just want something that size. Desktopish, but on the move
[17:35] <shauno> horses for courses really.  I like having a real gpu because I do like to play the odd game, and this is my main machine.  but they are going to mean +heat and -battery
[17:41] <ali1234> get a 15" ultrabook
[17:41] <ali1234> with optimus graphics
[17:41] <ali1234> and windows 8
[17:41] <daftykins> 0o
[17:41] <daftykins> fine if you don't want to use a Linux
[17:41] <ali1234> yeah that's the point
[17:42] <daftykins> i had a feeling you were going for that, in your underhanded way :>
[17:42] <ali1234> if you want an actually good laptop with decent battery and a fast gpu you can have it, as long as you don't want to run linux
[17:43] <livingdaylight> yea, this would run windows (sorry)
[17:43] <ali1234> i would recommend against the 17" though unless you are a body builder
[17:43] <ali1234> cos that's not going to be "mobile" otherwise
[17:43] <livingdaylight> i want the big screen
[17:44] <ali1234> buy a monitor then
[17:44] <livingdaylight> mobile in as the home, not for lugging around town
[17:44] <ali1234> 17" isn't that big. but it sure is heavy
[17:44] <daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/search?a00140=17+to+17.9&cat=10
[17:45] <livingdaylight> i picked up a couple 17" laptops earlier, a Toshiba Sattelite. Didn't think they were that heavy
[17:45] <ali1234> how long did you pick them up for?
[17:45] <livingdaylight> : )
[17:45] <ali1234> did you sit with it switched on in your lap for 3 hours?
[17:45] <daftykins> you need to benchpress the laptop for 20 reps
[17:45] <daftykins> ;)
[17:45] <livingdaylight> jajajaa
[17:45] <directhex> wife has a 15.6" gaming laptop
[17:45] <daftykins> ali1234: who does that :(
[17:46] <ali1234> not me that's for sure
[17:46] <livingdaylight> found this gaming laptop 15.6 for under 400 . Looks like great value https://tinyurl.com/q3av5fe
[17:47] <ali1234> that looks ok
[17:47] <daftykins> simple i3, not going to be a racer
[17:47] <ali1234> i wouldn't go bigger than that
[17:47] <neuro> acer? bleugh
[17:47] <neuro> i3? bleugh
[17:47] <ali1234> yeah try to get i5
[17:47] <daftykins> the HDD will likely be terrible
[17:47] <neuro> at least
[17:47] <ali1234> but in the end it's what you can afford
[17:48] <neuro> "gaming" "laptop" and "under 400", not good things to have in the same sentence
[17:48] <ali1234> "gaming laptop" is a bit like "racing lawnmower" in my opinion
[17:48] <neuro> unless that sentence is "i need a machine for gaming, and i sold an old laptop for under 400"
[17:48] <neuro> :)
[17:48] <neuro> there totally should be racing lawnmower games
[17:48] <ali1234> there is at least one
[17:49] <neuro> someone should give bernie ecclestone a call
[17:49] <neuro> "bernie, these cars are a bit ... crap now, aren't they? listen ... LAWNMOWERS"
[17:49] <livingdaylight> i'm not looking to play games on it. Just thought the spec was good for under 400. Yea, I'm  on a budget
[17:49] <ali1234> there's probably several "lawn mower simulator 2097" games too
[17:49] <daftykins> neuro: :D
[17:49] <daftykins> i can only imagine lawnmowers of 2097
[17:49]  * neuro understands being on a budget
[17:50] <neuro> but at the same time, if you can put away more pennies
[17:50] <neuro> save up for a Good laptop
[17:50] <neuro> rather than a make do one
[17:50] <daftykins> even a pile of junk would be amazing with an SSD
[17:50] <neuro> or an Acer
[17:50] <neuro> because nobody needs to use Acers
[17:50] <directhex> for £400 you#re not getting discrete graphics which are better than intel's i5 graphics
[17:51] <neuro> unless you're buying second hand
[17:51] <neuro> in which case you're buying older tech without a warranty
[17:51] <directhex> livingdaylight, nvidia 710 is much slower than intel
[17:51] <directhex> not all discrete graphics is actually good
[17:52] <livingdaylight> I wish laptops would lose the dvd drives. They add unnecessary bulk and weight.
[17:52] <daftykins> they just sound great because 'nvidia' + big numbers
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: welcome to the "Ultrabook"
[17:52] <daftykins> they really don't add much weight. but most have dumped them already
[17:52] <directhex> for nvidia, don't buy anything where the middle digit is less than 6
[17:52] <neuro> i like them, they come in handy
[17:52] <livingdaylight> directhex, uhuh... good to know, thx
[17:52] <directhex> e.g. 660 is fine, 710 is ass
[17:52] <ali1234> yeah the thing is in a 17" laptop they don't optimize for weight at all, because the thing is already huge anyway
[17:52] <livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, yea, I wish... still pricey
[17:53] <neuro> ali1234: lol
[17:53] <directhex> cheap, light, fast. pick two.
[17:53] <neuro> ^this
[17:53] <ali1234> they could put a lightweight slimline dvd drive in it but then half the case would just be empty
[17:53] <neuro> i went for light and fast
[17:53] <neuro> which is why my macbook pro cost me 1700 quid
[17:54] <ali1234> i go for cheap and fast desktop :)
[17:54] <ali1234> and cheap and light laptop
[17:55] <neuro> in saying that, s/light/reliable/ is more useful a metric
[17:55] <neuro> if it happens to be light as well, bonus
[17:55] <ali1234> i've never really had a problem with reliability
[17:55] <neuro> livingdaylight: you should look at refurb machines
[17:55] <neuro> e.g. dell refurb store
[17:57] <neuro> ho hum
[18:00] <ali1234> directhex: what about 240/250? mine seems to run any games about as well as could be expected
[18:00] <directhex> ali1234, that's going back a few years in vintage
[18:01] <ali1234> yeah it's a few years old now
[18:01] <ali1234> but it was kind of mid range obviously
[18:02] <directhex> you can getr away with a worse card, the lower the screen res
[18:02] <directhex> e.g. wife's laptop is smoother at native res (1366x768) than her desktop at native res (2560x1440)
[18:03] <ali1234> hmm yeah that sounds about right
[18:03] <n1md4> hi.  what's ubuntu's package repository url?
[18:03] <daftykins> there are lots depending on where in the world you are
[18:04] <daftykins> generally <two letter country code>.archive.ubuntu.com
[18:04] <n1md4> i'm on ubuntu-uk ... ;)
[18:04] <n1md4> daftykins: cool, thanks.
[18:04] <daftykins> trust me that means nothing
[18:04] <directhex> we get ukrainians in here!
[18:04] <n1md4> i know, just joking
[18:04] <directhex> also swedes. goddamn swedes! *shakes fist*
[18:04] <n1md4> :)
[18:04] <n1md4> haha
[18:04] <daftykins> y'know the French telco FR Buoygues has a very quick mirror for me
[18:04] <n1md4> now now
[18:04] <diddledan> and dutchlanders
[18:05] <ali1234> bogies?
[18:05]  * diddledan eyes MartijnVdS
[18:05] <diddledan> and those irish potatoes get everywhere, don't they, shauno ?
[18:06] <shauno> wut wut
[18:06] <diddledan> :-p
[18:06] <shauno> dont' you know your history man, they don't have any potatoes
[18:06] <diddledan> oh :-(
[18:06] <n1md4> erm, so 64bit precise would be http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/ ?
[18:06] <diddledan> history.. not so much
[18:07] <ali1234> n1md4: all architectures are under that path
[18:07] <directhex> n1md4, "deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ precise main restricted universe multiverse"
[18:07] <diddledan> n1md4: for /etc/apt/sources.list you want "deb http:.... yeah, what directhex said
[18:07] <shauno> the arch is in the filename for each individual package, rather than being part of the path
[18:07] <n1md4> i'm working on some xenserver vm creating thing, install from url "dah-dah-dah"
[18:08] <diddledan> shauno: the filename doesn't form part of the path anymore?
[18:08] <n1md4> not sources.lst
[18:08] <directhex> the arch has never been part of sources.list entries
[18:08] <diddledan> aah, xenserver is a pain to find the right url
[18:08] <n1md4> it's the dah-dah-dah bit i'm wanting :)
[18:08] <ali1234> the actual deb files are under http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/
[18:09] <diddledan> I believe you need the url to the netinstaller
[18:09] <diddledan> let me find it
[18:09] <n1md4> diddledan: please :)
[18:09] <n1md4> debian was a peice of cake, so was centos .. surprisingly ubuntu has been the pain atm
[18:09] <ali1234> is that the pxeboot stuff?
[18:10] <daftykins> can't you just debootstrap a xen VM? or mooch a made one
[18:10] <shauno> curious, what was the 'dah-dah-dah' for debian?
[18:10] <ali1234> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot
[18:10] <ali1234> (adapt for arch and version)
[18:11] <diddledan> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-amd64/ might be close
[18:11] <ali1234> yeah, /current/images/netboot/
[18:11] <n1md4> i'll give it a go
[18:11] <n1md4> thanks
[18:12] <diddledan> I did have it worked out, but it got forgotten
[18:12] <diddledan> probably to make room for porn
[18:13] <diddledan> raspberry pi withOUT a case!!! oooh yeah
[18:13] <diddledan> now _that's_ porn!
[18:13] <daftykins> *with clear case
[18:14] <shauno> I don't get why.  they're brought into the world without cases.  it's perfectly natural
[18:14] <daftykins> shauno: society for you :(
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://open.spotify.com/album/1aSU7tVnGuKquY8yKCw1jm
[18:14] <shauno> eh.  in this house, the pi run free :)
[18:15] <diddledan> shauno: unfortunately society ate from the apple!
[18:15] <daftykins> i nearly got one the other day but it sounds like my old 1.2GHz core solo ULV will be faster
[18:15] <diddledan> and opened all the windows
[18:15] <shauno> hey, the apple run free in this house too
[18:22] <shauno> reminds me, I need to find some kind of irblaster for my pi.  it's years since I looked at that stuff
[18:22] <daftykins> what do you use it for?
[18:23] <shauno> at the moment, very very little.  but I want it to do scheduling for my roomba, since I cheaped out and got a roomba with no timer
[18:24] <shauno> well, I want it to do a few things, but I'm incredibly lazy
[18:24] <n1md4> diddledan: it was far simpler! http://gb.archive.ubuntu.net/ubuntu
[18:25] <diddledan> lol *facepalm*
[18:25] <daftykins> shauno: :D
[18:25] <shauno> but mostly in the same theme .. I want it to grab my calendar and then schedule various tasks around it
[18:29] <diddledan> such as sucky sucky late at night?
[18:29] <daftykins> diddledan: inappropriate for this chan, dude
[18:30] <diddledan> roomba = hoover = vacuum cleaner, it sucks by it's very nature, therefore I refer to doing the cleaning as sucky sucky
[18:30] <shauno> more mornings.  turning my espresso machine on before I wake up so it's warmed up in time, running the roomba while I'm at work, etc.  and yeah, you forget which chan this is :)
[18:30] <daftykins> oic
[18:30] <daftykins> i didn't even twig what it was :(
[18:32] <diddledan> see, I guess my reputation must precede me. shauno have you been telling tales about me and bandcamp?
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: .com?
[18:32] <daftykins> O_O
[18:33] <diddledan> there's a bandcamp.com?
[18:34] <diddledan> well I'll be, and they made it all above board and everything
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: I've actually bought quite a bit of music off there
[18:36] <shauno> I think I've had a few from there.  the only one that springs to mind, is that it's the home of the guy that does the soundtrack for minecraft
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> http://music.demoscenetimemachine.com/  is bandcamp-based
[18:37] <diddledan> minecraft doesn't have a soundtrack. it has a jingle every sunrise and sunset, and that's it
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> and http://alinahardin.bandcamp.com/ is good as well
[18:37] <diddledan> reminds me of my yoof
[18:38] <diddledan> it's super mario brothers on steroids
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: hi! @ reddit ;)
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> uh
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> directhex:
[18:40] <daftykins> 0o
[18:41] <directhex> MartijnVdS, ?
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> directhex: You await a glorious future of non-16-bitness :)
[18:41] <directhex> well, yes
[18:42] <directhex> it's dumb that haswell core i7 chips are also fully valid 16-bit cpus, even when only ever booting a 64-bit os
[18:42] <diddledan> ergh, synergy+ has stopped working properly. or rather on my ubuntu machine the screensaver kicked in and now I can't get it to stop
[18:43] <daftykins> hahaha
[18:43] <directhex> :D
[18:43] <directhex> x11 strikes again
[18:43] <daftykins> who uses screensavers :(
[18:43] <daftykins> i use power buttons.
[18:43] <directhex> i need to lock my screen a lot, i have root on all the compNY'S SErvers
[18:43] <diddledan> it's worse than that.. I've got mir running on there and the screensaver doesn't do anything to the screen, so I'm staring at what I was doing before it "turned off"
[18:44] <diddledan> directhex: ditto
[18:44] <diddledan> several government departments might get annoyed if I leaked access
[18:45] <daftykins> i guess 'screensaver' and lock screen are synonymous in Loonix land
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: what happened to transparency and open access data?
[18:45] <diddledan> yeah
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> :P
[18:45] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: that's the NSA
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> Great... my xhci controller is so new, Linux doesn't like all of it yet: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1207612
[18:50] <daftykins> well, you did buy on release day :D / night
[18:50] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: what're you running?
[18:50] <diddledan> must be very new
[18:51] <daftykins> haswell
[18:51] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: Z87
[18:51] <diddledan> aah, z87x
[18:51]  * diddledan just spooted it in the bug report
[18:52] <daftykins> i nearly upgraded the other day - i still don't think a top-end haswell i7 would feel enough of an upgrade for me though
[18:52] <diddledan> I've got an amd bulldozer
[18:52] <diddledan> over there --->
[18:52] <diddledan> I'm on a macbook pro here
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: nah, --> over there is my old first-gen i3
[18:53] <diddledan> the bulldozer is the system that I currently have no control over 'cos of the screen freeze
[18:53] <diddledan> it needs a reboob methinks
[18:53] <daftykins> oh AMD i wish you were great again
[18:54] <directhex> daftykins, i'm still on a core i7 920
[18:54] <directhex> the *real* i7
[18:54] <diddledan> does anybody do tripple channel ram anymore?
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> DDR3?
[18:54] <diddledan> the i7 920 did
[18:54] <directhex> with triple-channel RAM!
[18:54] <daftykins> heh which iirc made pretty negligible a difference
[18:55] <diddledan> it did make mobo builders put 6 slots on the board tho, which does make a difference in capacity
[18:55] <diddledan> hate with a vengeance 2 slotted boards
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> that does rock
[18:56] <diddledan> 4 is barely adequate
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> though I have 16GB in 2 (of 4) slots now
[18:56] <diddledan> 6 is awesome
[18:56] <popey> gosh, 6 slots?
[18:56] <directhex> daftykins, i like having something i can show off, when i build a system. e.g. i had the first agp 8x gpu/mobo :p
[18:56] <popey> i have only seen a 6 slot mobo in pictures ☻
[18:56] <directhex> popey, every X58 motherboard except for intel's own one had 6 slots, since ram needed to go in multiples of 3
[18:57] <popey> still not seen one, i dont tend to buy top end mobos for desktops
[18:57] <daftykins> directhex: ;)
[18:57] <directhex> daftykins, of course, this meant having a SiS gpu/mobo :D
[18:57] <daftykins> it's not the board, it's the old i7 setup which necessitated it
[18:57] <daftykins> omw SiS
[18:58] <daftykins> directhex: i hope you bought the pack of razor blades at the same time
[18:58] <directhex> popey, http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2958#ov is my board
[18:58] <directhex> not the sexiest board i've ever owned
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4514 = mine
[18:59] <popey> Ultra Durable!
[18:59] <directhex> that was http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products/xl/000261/albatron_px845pe_pro_iis.jpg
[18:59] <popey> 3!
[18:59] <directhex> sexy sexy motherboard
[18:59] <directhex> hey daftykins, back me up here!
[18:59] <popey> what are the white and blue ports at the bottom left?
[18:59] <popey> lots o sata?
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> popey: yeah
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> different controllers I think (some are on-chipset, others are on an extra controller)
[19:00] <popey> now i have no office I have no space for desktop
[19:00] <popey> i am a laptop nomad
[19:00] <popey> spent the day working at the inlaws house
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> popey: aww.. time for another floor?
[19:00] <popey> hah i wish
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> basement?
[19:00] <popey> no point making this house bigger, would make it harder to sell
[19:00] <daftykins> looks a bit of a plain jane :(
[19:00] <daftykins> directhex: sorry :(
[19:00] <popey> 5 bed house in a road with only 3 bed houses
[19:01] <directhex> popey, modern motherboard chipsets don't support IDE, but at the time i was buying, users would occasionally still demand it. so mobo manufacturers would use a JMicron IDE controller chip - which also provided some SATA slots
[19:01] <directhex> popey, so 6 sata ports provided by the intel chipset, plus 4 by jmicron
[19:01] <popey> hah
[19:02] <daftykins> and nasty they were too
[19:02] <diddledan> 6 sata ports is narey enough
[19:02] <directhex> oh, jmicron is terrible
[19:02] <directhex> but just explainin' why it's there
[19:02] <daftykins> sure
[19:02] <daftykins> i actually make use of it in my server because my optical in there is PATA still :D
[19:03] <directhex> i need to go & cook. i wonder if i should put some clothes on
[19:03] <diddledan> I've got my pata optical plugged into a sata adapter card
[19:03] <diddledan> takes separate power tho :-(
[19:03] <daftykins> directhex: if it's going to spit fat, yes
[19:03] <directhex> daftykins, it is not!
[19:03] <diddledan> then no :-p
[19:03] <daftykins> this is my current: http://www.asus.com/media/global/products/cPrufUGXUlY9OsYv/P_500.jpg
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: colours!
[19:04] <daftykins> many colours @_@
[19:04] <daftykins> she's a tad flakey
[19:04] <directhex> nah... remember DFI lanparty boards?
[19:04] <daftykins> can't run the DDR2 @ 1066MHz anymore, had to dial it back to 800
[19:04] <daftykins> hahaha
[19:04] <daftykins> glow in the dark slots
[19:04] <diddledan> oh, my other puter just sprung to life
[19:04] <diddledan> the screen is working again
[19:05] <directhex> yeah, glow in the dark slots :>
[19:05] <diddledan> desktop computers are too bright these days
[19:05] <diddledan> lights up the wazoo
[19:06] <directhex> i like how foxconn sold a motherboard *recently* with 4 different mobo chipset coolers. one of them was "a big aluminium cup, for liquid nitrogen"
[19:06] <daftykins> i dunno, everything visible outside tends to be black
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: mine only has a few LEDs, most inside the case :)
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: which is NOT transparent ;)
[19:06] <daftykins> anywho we need to go and cook directhex!
[19:07] <diddledan> my pizza will be beeping at me in exactly 4 minues 54 seconds
[19:07] <diddledan> it's cheapskate cook-it-yourself tonight
[19:07] <shauno> I used to have one of those DFI boards.  it was purdy.  and caked in dustbunnies
[19:07] <diddledan> shauno: dustbunnies aren't necessarily a good thing
[19:07] <directhex> fine, i'm going for gold
[19:08] <directhex> the zaniest motherboard evar was from aopen
[19:08] <diddledan> I've got several mobos from jetway from circa 1999 which are all dead becuase the capacitors leaked
[19:09] <directhex> http://dl.maximumpc.com/galleries/dec10_mobos/11_full.jpg
[19:09] <directhex> check and mate.
[19:09] <shauno> and fwiw it appears I'm cooking halušky tonight.  always fun, always messy
[19:09] <daftykins> what's that circled O_O
[19:09] <daftykins> a valve?
[19:09] <diddledan> that was due to capacitor gate where several companies were caught with substandard stolen formula
[19:09] <directhex> daftykins, the vacuum tube used by the onboard audio
[19:09] <daftykins> XD
[19:09] <directhex> daftykins, yes! :D
[19:09] <diddledan> wtf?
[19:09] <directhex> :DDDD
[19:09] <diddledan> that's nuts
[19:10] <daftykins> the size of that cap
[19:10] <directhex> :DDDDDDDD
[19:10] <diddledan> I'm betting it's completely useless use of a valve, too
[19:10] <daftykins> that's Pentium 4 right?
[19:10] <diddledan> on the preamp where it does absolutely no difference to the sound outpout
[19:11] <diddledan> the home theatre units from (samsung?) which include a valve are the same - they put it in the preamp circuit where it has no affect on the quality of the audio output
[19:11] <directhex> daftykins, yes. there was an nforce2 version too iirc
[19:11] <daftykins> hahaha
[19:11] <daftykins> it amuses me that fraps gives Chrome a framerate whilst i'm sat with gmail open
[19:14] <daftykins> anywho best get some food on the go
[19:25] <directhex> aha, found the specifics. Sovtek 6922 vacuum tube
[19:27] <directhex> fed by a cheapy realtek chip :p
[20:06] <daftykins> directhex: recipe for success!
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> that or a house fire
[20:09] <daftykins> which could also be a success
[20:15] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: what's your old setup doing these days?
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: not much
[20:15] <daftykins> aww
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: it's running GameOS now
[20:16] <daftykins> O_O
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: for tax stuff mostly.. less font hassle (the Dutch tax agency has Windows, Mac or Linux binaries, using wxwindows, but the Linux version comes as an *autopackage*)
[20:44] <diddledan> microsoft automated dmca takedown notice to google: http://torrentfreak.com/images/google-dmca-ms.png
[20:44] <diddledan> think of the children!