[01:02] <robotgeek> ryanakca: pong
[01:02] <ryanakca> like this? http://rkavanagh.homelinux.org/websvn/filedetails.php?repname=Learn+Python&path=%2Fmyproject%2Ftrunk%2Farea.py&rev=0&sc=0
[01:03] <robotgeek> ryanakca: exactly :)
[01:03] <ryanakca> kk
[01:03] <ryanakca> people in #bzr convinced me to switch from svn to bzr
[01:04] <robotgeek> hmmph, too slow for me
[01:04] <ryanakca> what? bzr? or svn&
[01:04] <ryanakca> ?
[01:04] <ryanakca> or the python app?
[01:04] <robotgeek> svn
[01:04] <ryanakca> ah
[01:04] <robotgeek> bzr vs svn, the only gripe is bzr is too slow :)
[01:26] <ryanakca> robotgeek: I'm starting to find that svn is much easier and simpler to set up than bzr...
[07:01] <nixternal> be careful with the latest console-settings update if you apt-get in feistry from konsole
[07:01] <nixternal> you get a split screen, half white half pink
[07:35] <nixternal> HELP!
[07:38] <robotgeek> nixternal: how
[07:38] <nixternal> hehe...need to finish the herd 1 release notes
[07:46] <nixternal> anything new in kubuntu 7.04 recently?
[07:48] <robotgeek> i'm still waiting on pieces of my desktop. i ain't upgrading from dapper on my sole machine :)
[08:00] <nixternal> Linux Kernel 2.6.19, KDE 3.5.5, Konversation 1.0.1, KTorrent 2.0.3 all documented with the Herd 1 Release Notes. Anything else let me know
[08:00] <nixternal> I need to screenshot KTorrent, do a proof or 2 and that will be ready for today/tomorrow for release
[08:01] <Hobbsee> nixternal: they took out the hidden file stuff, that showed only home and media
[08:02] <nixternal> ya, that stuff confused me...didn't follow it much..is there a place where i can get some more info on it?
[08:03] <nixternal> oh wait..i know exactly what you are talking about
[08:04] <nixternal> i will have to play with m feisty box now...i know when i would do an open file or what not, i couldn't see / and everything under it
[08:04] <nixternal> just ~/ and /media
[08:04] <Hobbsee> yeah
[08:04] <nixternal> awesome
[08:04] <nixternal> that annoys me in edgy
[08:04] <nixternal> easily fixed though when you type out the location
[08:04] <nixternal> cool..that will definitely get in there then
[08:05] <nixternal> hmm..what would be a proper title/name for that?
[08:05] <nixternal> == Hidden Files ==    don't think that will cut it ;)
[08:08] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Herd1/Kubuntu
[08:09] <nixternal> there is what I have gotten so far. It still needs some cleaning up and proofing...that is the first draft
[08:13] <Jucato> hm... dot.kde.org already has the link for KOffice 1.6.1 on Kubuntu, kubuntu.org still hasn't added it to the main page yet. only Riddell can do that?
[08:13] <nixternal> yes
[08:14] <nixternal> couple more weeks..i believe he said something about that in his email as well
[08:14] <nixternal> maybe imbrandon or someone has some access..but i am not 100% possitive
[08:14] <Jucato> ah. but it's safe to "give out" the KOffice 1.6.1 link?
[08:15] <Hobbsee> we can upload it to ubuntu, too
[08:15] <Hobbsee> should be
[08:16] <Jucato> kool. I'm announcing in kubuntuforums :)
[08:17] <Hobbsee> :)
[08:20] <nixternal> don't announce just yet
[08:21] <nixternal> oh, 1.6.1
[08:21] <nixternal> heh, thought you were talking about my horrid herd page
[08:22] <Jucato> heheh :)
[08:23] <Jucato> I'm quite reluctant to announce alpha/beta releases :)
[08:23] <nixternal> don't need to...it will be on digg and /. soon enough
[08:23] <Jucato> hehehe
[09:25] <Hobbsee> fdoving: ping?
[09:30] <Hobbsee> raphink: you around?
[09:30] <Hobbsee> or any other core devs?
[09:30] <raphink> yep
[09:30] <Hobbsee> raphink: did you get Riddell's email last week?
[09:30] <raphink> yes I did
[09:30] <raphink> didn't answer sorry
[09:31] <Hobbsee> raphink: that's cool.  did you want to upload http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/koffice/ to feisty?
[09:31] <Hobbsee> !info koffice feisty
[09:31] <ubotu> koffice: KDE Office Suite. In component main, is optional. Version 1:1.5.2-0ubuntu2 (edgy), package size 23 kB, installed size 76 kB
[09:31] <Hobbsee> awww bugger, it's in main.
[09:31] <Hobbsee> better ask mithrandir if we can have an exception for that
[09:31] <raphink> I can upload it
[09:31] <raphink> was it tested?
[09:31] <raphink> is main frozen already?
[09:32] <raphink> o_O
[09:32] <raphink> I thought it was only frozen for the release of Herd1
[09:32] <Hobbsee> yeah, it is
[09:32] <raphink> alright
[09:33] <raphink> then we just have to wait for Herd1 release
[09:33] <raphink> which is today
[09:33] <Hobbsee> yeah.  grr
[09:33] <Hobbsee> supposedly. yet there's no images
[09:33] <raphink> ...
[09:33] <Hobbsee> for herd 1, sorry - not even daily images
[09:35] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Herd1/Kubuntu
[09:36] <raphink> good night nixternal ><>
[09:36] <nixternal> read, proof, read some more, proof again, edit, edit, commit, post, save, preview, edit, proor...you get the idea
[09:36] <nixternal> g'nite raphink <><
[09:37] <Hobbsee> raphink: if you wanted, you could probably upload koffice anyway.  [19:37]  <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: it'd just end up in unapproved which gets shoved into feisty when we unfreeze, so it doesn't really matter for me.
[09:37] <Hobbsee> then its' done, and people can test it after knot 1
[09:37] <Hobbsee> er, herd 1
[09:38] <Jucato> not knot
[09:38] <Jucato> :)
[09:38] <Hobbsee> :P
[09:38] <raphink> ok
[09:39] <raphink> Hobbsee: you told me these packages were tested already, right?
[09:39] <Hobbsee> raphink: i've not tested them yet.  Riddell asked for them to be uploaded after release.  i think that they have been though, by some people
[09:40] <raphink> hmm
[09:40] <raphink> I don't have a feisty pbuilder here
[09:42] <Hobbsee> raphink: i think Riddell and other people tested them
[09:42] <Hobbsee> KOffice 1.6.1 is due out on Wednesday, we don't yet have a way for
[09:42] <Hobbsee> others to update the website, but I've made packages and a web page
[09:42] <Hobbsee> and put them at the usual places so you can publicise that once the
[09:42] <Hobbsee> release is made.  I've put the source packages for feisty at
[09:42] <Hobbsee> http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/koffice/ so a core-dev an upload that
[09:42] <Hobbsee> once the release is out.
[09:42] <Hobbsee> clearly, they're ready for publicish consumption
[09:42] <raphink> ok I'll upload then
[09:44] <Jucato> Hobbsee: have you seen this: http://pupeno.com/blog-en/unstable-packages-on-ubuntu/
[09:54] <raphink> ok just upgraded my edgy pbuilder to feisty so I can test
[09:54] <Hobbsee> :)
[09:54] <Hobbsee> Jucato: sounds sane to me.  the guy knows about apt's limitations, and knows that his dist-upgrades will have trouble
[09:55] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i mean, apt wont stop you, it does let you pin and do all sorts of things - but you have to know what your'e doing
[09:55] <Jucato> hm... it's nice then... but dist-upgrade will totally be messed up?
[09:56] <Jucato> but at least you could get up to date packages if you really can't wait, right?
[09:56] <Hobbsee> no, then it'll just fail slightly, and he can fix it, as he's accustomed to do it
[09:56] <Hobbsee> but he knows that it will not work perfectly, due to those packages
[09:57] <Jucato> ah. coz he's giving out that link to people in #kubuntu asking about more recent versions of some packages
[09:58] <Hobbsee> well, as long as they read it carefully, and undersatnd what they're reading, i cant see the harm in that
[09:59] <Hobbsee> actually, they're only building it from source.....
[10:04] <Tonio_> hello
[10:04] <kwwii> hi Tonio_
[10:04] <fdoving> Hobbsee: the verification-needed is too early for the kopete sru, it's not accepted into -proposed yet. Not available for testers anywhere.
[10:04] <Tonio_> hey kwwii ;)
[10:04] <Hobbsee> fdoving: i thought they said it was accepted for kopete...
[10:05] <fdoving> Hobbsee: it was accepted for a upload, it's not accepted into the archive by an archive admin, yet.
[10:07] <Hobbsee> fdoving: ah yes, this mess.
[10:07] <Hobbsee> which is not in proposed like the email said :P
[10:07] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/digikam/+bug/73617
[10:07] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: is there something missing there ?
[10:07] <fdoving> what email said it's in proposed?
[10:08] <Tonio_> I'm not very keep on the sru process at the moment
[10:08] <Hobbsee> fdoving: "The week Ahead" by Riddell
[10:08] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: me neither.  it seems like a hell of a lot of bureacracy
[10:08] <fdoving> Hobbsee: it's in the proposed queue.
[10:08] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: well, we've gone from nothing to something which is a bit "too much" in my opinion
[10:09] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: it's 1:0.8.2-2ubuntu1.1, btw
[10:09] <Hobbsee> yeah
[10:10] <Tonio_> hum yes true, bad version number
[10:10] <Hobbsee> fdoving: can you explain what you just said please?
[10:11] <fdoving> Hobbsee: there is a queue of packages waiting to get accepted into -proposed, by an archive admin that processes all updates going into -proposed.
[10:11] <fdoving> that's where kopete is now.
[10:11] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: presumably that's been fixed in feisty?
[10:11] <Hobbsee> fdoving: ahhh
[10:11] <fdoving> it's uploaded, waiting in the queue.
[10:12] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: yes that is fixed in feisty
[10:12] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: so I don't know what is better there, backport or update ?
[10:12] <fdoving> i've poked cjwatson to check on it, he'll do it tomorrow.
[10:12] <Jucato> Hobbsee: sorry I had to leave abruptly... :)
[10:12] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: cool.  update
[10:12] <Hobbsee> Jucato: actually, they're only building it from source.....
[10:12] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it's cool.  feel like some cd testing later?
[10:12] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: okay I'm fixing the debdiff
[10:13] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: :)
[10:13] <Jucato> Hobbsee: sure. but on vmware only hehehe :)
[10:13] <fdoving> anyway.. shopping, etc. bye all.
[10:13] <Jucato> herd1?
[10:13] <Hobbsee> Jucato: that'll do
[10:13] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yeah
[10:13] <Hobbsee> Jucato: they're not built yet
[10:13] <Hobbsee> bye fdoving!
[10:13] <Jucato> ok. ping me when it's available :)
[10:14] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:15] <Hobbsee> [20:14]  <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: kubuntu live images building.
[10:15] <raphink> :)
[10:15] <raphink> koffice 1.6.1 build
[10:15] <Jucato> btw, who does the FAQ on Kubuntu.org?
[10:15] <raphink> building
[10:16] <Hobbsee> Jucato: riddell.  actually, i've got a feeling the webpage is on svn
[10:16] <Hobbsee> raphink: yay!
[10:18] <Jucato> Hobbsee: the FAQ on Konqueror profiles needs to be changed for Dapper and Edgy
[10:18] <Hobbsee> Jucato: wouldnt surprise me at all.
[10:19] <Hobbsee> Jucato: feel like updating it, when riddell gets back?  then he can upload the changes to the site
[10:19] <Jucato> the slight problem is that the other Konqueror profiles are no longer installed by default and aren't in the package anymore, according to the changelogs.
[10:20] <Hobbsee> ah
[10:20] <Hobbsee> if that's the only documentation that's out of date, i'd be surprised
[10:20] <Jucato> Tonio_: um... just wondering why this was done? (removed the other Konqueror profiles from the package itself)
[10:20] <Hobbsee> to make it simpler?  not sure
[10:20] <Jucato> I haven't checked the others actually. but this one came up often in the forums
[10:21] <Jucato> well in Breezy, the profiles weren't visible/accessible by default unless you change konqueror-orig.rc, but they were still in /usr/share/apps/konqueror/profiles
[10:21] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: it looks fine to me, but i'm not sure how pedantic they all are, and SRU process isnt terribly clear to me
[10:21] <Hobbsee> ah, true
[10:22] <Jucato> Hobbsee: I actually made a guide already for it and hosted the 4 profiles :) http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=11190.0
[10:22] <Hobbsee> [20:21]  <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: the images built, but they're called edgy; I'm rebuilding ubuntu, then kubuntu images, but people should able to start rsyncing them already.
[10:22] <Hobbsee> Jucato: nice :)
[10:22] <Jucato> I just extracted the profiles from the breezy Konqueror package
[10:22] <Hobbsee> who's up for testing?  :P
[10:23] <Jucato> I'll can test the desktop CD... hope that downloading will be fast though
[10:23] <Hobbsee> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/
[10:24] <Hobbsee> [20:23]  <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: as long as people rename the images, the .2 ones should sync really quickly.
[10:24] <Hobbsee> Jucato: use rsync for it, and it should be nicer
[10:24] <Jucato> Hobbsee: um. maybe later... coz I don't know how to use it. lol :)
[10:25] <Jucato> ah so it's still called edgy-*..
[10:25] <Hobbsee> Jucato: he's rebuilding, but just rename s/edgy/feisty/
[10:25] <Hobbsee> apparently rsync is really easy to use
[10:25] <Jucato>  /msg ubotu rsync
[10:25] <Jucato> oops
[10:29] <Hobbsee> hrm.  apparently
[10:30] <nuku> is there going to be an alternate iso of herd1?
[10:30] <Hobbsee> yes
[10:30] <Hobbsee> nuku: feel like testing it?
[10:30] <nuku> yep :)
[10:30] <Hobbsee> nuku: yay :)  will poke you when it's spun
[10:30] <Hobbsee> nuku: they can only build one at a time
[10:30] <nuku> sure..
[10:31] <Jucato> ok I'll try rsync :)
[10:31] <Hobbsee> !rsync
[10:31] <ubotu> rsync: fast remote file copy program (like rcp). In component main, is standard. Version 2.6.8-2ubuntu3 (edgy), package size 237 kB, installed size 472 kB
[10:31] <Hobbsee> ahh
[10:31] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it should be quicker, at least
[10:31] <Jucato> yeah. I'll try what the wiki says :)
[10:32] <Hobbsee> wiki says something?  oh good.  i didnt learn much from the manual
[10:32] <nuku> getting 1.4MB/s for the daily-live iso via http.. quite ok..
[10:32] <Jucato> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RsyncCdImage
[10:33] <Hobbsee> nuku: nice.  but that is the live cd, you know, not the alternate?
[10:33] <Hobbsee> nuku: also, you have to rename it before burning ti
[10:33] <nuku> yep.. can't wait :)
[10:33] <Hobbsee> :)
[10:33] <Jucato> "rsync -Lvv --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/edgy-desktop-i386.iso" right?
[10:34] <gnomefreak> remove edgy add feisty maybe?
[10:34] <gnomefreak> but i havent seen any images for feisty yet
[10:34] <Jucato> but the feisty ISO is still named edgy
[10:34] <gnomefreak> oh it is?
[10:34] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: yes, mithrandir is respinning to avoid that
[10:34] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[10:34] <Hobbsee> Jucato: ahhh :)
[10:35] <Jucato> Hobbsee: so for the meantime, I still use edgy-desktop-i386.iso for rsync?
[10:35] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yep
[10:35] <Hobbsee> and then rename it to feisty-desktop-i386.iso
[10:35] <Jucato> okay. here goes nothing. :)
[10:36] <Hobbsee> :)
[10:36] <gnomefreak> i will try it over night since it takes me a long damn time
[10:36] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: rsync?
[10:36] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: that too
[10:36] <Jucato> @ERROR: Unknown module 'kubuntu' rsync error: error starting client-server protocol (code 5) at main.c(1296) [receiver=2.6.8]
[10:36] <gnomefreak> looking at around 6-8 hours no matter what way i use
[10:36] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: ouch :(
[10:37] <gnomefreak> some slow ass DSL
[10:37] <gnomefreak> 30 kbps
[10:37] <Hobbsee> ouch
[10:37] <gnomefreak> thats what i get for $20 a month
[10:37] <Jucato> O.o
[10:38] <gnomefreak> $10 more and it will take about 2-3 hours
[10:38] <Jucato> mine is $20 a month and the download bandwidth is 512kbps
[10:39] <Hobbsee> Jucato: rsync -Lvv --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/kubuntu/daily-live/current/edgy-desktop-i386.iso
[10:39] <Hobbsee> oh, same problem
[10:39] <Jucato> hm...
[10:40] <Jucato> this time it had no errors.. but finished quickly... I have the original edgy-desktop-i386.iso in the same directory where I typed in that command.
[10:41] <Hobbsee> [20:40]  <cjwatson> KILL
[10:41] <Hobbsee> [20:40]  <cjwatson> I'll fix
[10:41] <Hobbsee> Jucato: ^ :P
[10:41] <gnomefreak> lol
[10:41] <Jucato> heheh :P
[10:41] <Hobbsee> right, that's clearly wrong then
[10:41] <Jucato> I can wait :)
[10:41] <Jucato> exploring rsync is fun lol
[10:42] <gnomefreak> hmmmm i wonder if the file not found issue was fixed
[10:42] <nuku> just append an "." at the end ;)
[10:42] <nuku> (or an other destination)
[10:42] <Hobbsee> Jucato: rsync -Lvv --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/kubuntu/daily-live/current/edgy-desktop-i386.iso .
[10:42] <Jucato> ah cool
[10:43] <Hobbsee> i did guess rigth, but tested it out incorrectly
[10:43] <gnomefreak> thats the right command for feisty cd?
[10:43] <Jucato> I forgot the '.' lol
[10:43] <Hobbsee> yes
[10:43] <Hobbsee> for the moment
[10:43] <Jucato> working now
[10:43] <Hobbsee> Jucato: hehe, yes i saw
[10:44] <gnomefreak> whats d-i? desktop installer?
[10:44] <Hobbsee> debian installer
[10:44] <Hobbsee> (the alternate installer)
[10:44] <gnomefreak> oh
[10:44] <Hobbsee> blue and red one
[10:44] <Jucato> so there's no problem if the Edgy ISO is named kubuntu-6.10-desktop-i386.iso? or I should rename it?
[10:45] <Jucato> sorry.. first time to do rsync...
[10:45] <Hobbsee> Jucato: ahhh...i'd guess rename it
[10:45] <Jucato> ah. because the names are different.. right right...
[10:46] <Hobbsee> i think so
[10:46] <Hobbsee> bu ti'm guessing, iv'e never used rsync before :P
[10:46] <Jucato> lol
[10:46] <Jucato> but if it's faster, it will surely beat the hell out of downloading again :)
[10:47] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yes.  and you'll have to rsync again to get the final ones, as d-i is missing
[10:47] <Jucato> ah
[10:47] <gnomefreak> that means late release of herd
[10:47] <gnomefreak> ?
[10:47] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: it alwasy has
[10:48] <Hobbsee> hey Tonio___ :)
[10:48] <Hobbsee> again
[10:49] <Jucato> hehe
[10:49] <Tonio___> Hobbsee: sucking correction ;)
[10:49] <Hobbsee> Tonio___: ahhh :(
[10:50] <Tonio_> ;)
[10:50] <Jucato> hm.. eath Tonio_'s connection for dinner :)
[10:50] <Jucato> s/eath/eat
[10:50] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:50] <Hobbsee> mmm...crunchy
[10:51] <Jucato> heheh
[10:53] <gnomefreak> that is sweet wallpaper :)
[10:54] <Jucato> hm... the rsync was unbelievably fast...
[10:54] <gnomefreak> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=49381  that is cute :)
[10:55] <Hobbsee> hehehe
[10:55] <Hobbsee> Jucato: :)
[10:55] <gnomefreak> Jucato: did you change it before hitting enter or after it was downloaded you changed edgy to feisty?
[10:55] <Hobbsee> Jucato: obviously a lot wasnt changed
[10:55] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: they cant build ones called feisty yet
[10:55] <Jucato> after I downloaded I renamed it
[10:56] <Jucato> lol @ cute wallpaper
[10:57] <gnomefreak> i got same error you got first time
[10:57] <Hobbsee> Jucato: apparently they were supposed to be really quick
[10:57] <Jucato> hm.. starting up vmware
[10:59] <gnomefreak> Jucato: how did you get it to work?
[10:59] <Jucato> I'm not sure it really worked at all...
[10:59] <gnomefreak> rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/kubuntu/daily-live/current/edgy-desktop-i386. isnt working
[10:59] <gnomefreak> its erroring
[10:59] <Jucato> rsync -Lvv --progress then that
[10:59] <gnomefreak> i did
[11:00] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: you missed a space between 6 and . too
[11:00] <Jucato> oh, there should be a space between
[11:00] <Jucato> snap :)
[11:00] <gnomefreak> oops :(
[11:00] <gnomefreak> still not working
[11:01] <Jucato> apparently I did something wrong, as lsb_release -a and uname -r still give me Edgy details
[11:01] <gnomefreak> Jucato: upgrade now
[11:01] <gnomefreak> :)
[11:01] <gnomefreak> Jucato: what kernel is it booting to?
[11:01] <Jucato> heh. I already have a feisty install on vmware
[11:01] <Jucato> 2.6.17-10-generic
[11:01] <Hobbsee> Jucato: wouldnt surprise me, if debian-installer hasnt changed
[11:02] <gnomefreak> thats an edgy image than it doesnt have the feisty packages i would say
[11:02] <Jucato> nah I think I really messed up :P
[11:02] <Jucato> back to the "old" way...
[11:02] <Hobbsee> Jucato: actually, that'd make sense
[11:02] <gnomefreak> give it a few days :)
[11:02] <Hobbsee> Jucato: just wait till kamion fixes the d-i to build, so it all works
[11:03] <Jucato> ok.. but sources.list still uses edgy... so...
[11:03] <Hobbsee> that's logical
[11:03] <Jucato> ah, so... how do I know that it's feisty?
[11:04] <Hobbsee> because it was built today, it just hasnt quite finished yet
[11:04] <Hobbsee> hey el!
[11:04] <Jucato> hi el!
[11:05] <Jucato> ah I see
[11:05] <el> hey Hobbsee :)
[11:05] <el> heya Jucato :)
[11:05] <Jucato> now I try to play with bluetooth :)
[11:05] <el> uuh - does itwork?
[11:06] <Jucato> hm..
[11:06] <Hobbsee> unlikely
[11:06] <Hobbsee> :P
[11:06] <Jucato> kool! I can send files from my phone to my pc
[11:06] <Jucato> :P
[11:07] <Jucato> ha it works
[11:08] <Hobbsee> :)
[11:10] <gnomefreak> ok someone with skills needs to write a wiki on how to make a hackergotchi
[11:10] <Jucato> heh
[11:10] <Jucato> ha! my feisty on vmware miraculously booted into the 2.6.19-6 kernel :P
[11:11] <gnomefreak> i spent a week on one and it didnt happen. so i emailed<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(supposed to make them for you for free in a few days its been a week on that too :(
[11:11] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yay :)
[11:11] <Jucato> but I still need to test the desktop CD so :)
[11:23] <nuku> damn now i know where the plastic smell yesterday came from... i just noticed one of my machines died :/
[11:24] <Hobbsee> ouch!
[11:25] <Jucato> :(
[11:27] <nuku> thats the price for running 5 computers 24/7 ;)
[11:28] <raphink> koffice still building...
[11:28] <raphink> I should have built on a server ;)
[11:28] <Hobbsee> hehe
[11:29] <Hobbsee> raphink: you should have built in on imbrandon's machine :P
[11:29] <raphink> on my new build machine :)
[11:29] <raphink> Hobbsee: oh? he's got faster than my build machine? :)
[11:29] <Hobbsee> raphink: no idea what yours is
[11:29] <raphink> opteron64 bi-proc bi-core with 4GB RAM, 8*150 HD in 15000 rpm SCSI :)
[11:30] <Hobbsee> holy cow
[11:30] <Hobbsee> nice :)
[11:30] <raphink> yeah
[11:30] <raphink> that was a spare one
[11:30] <raphink> :)
[11:30] <raphink> there's better for machines that needs a bit more power :)
[11:30] <Seveas> Hobbsee, heh, imbrandons machine seems dead :/
[11:30] <Hobbsee> Seveas: i noticed that
[11:30] <Hobbsee> Seveas: at least unpingable
[11:30] <Seveas> and un-ssh-able
[11:30] <raphink> Hobbsee: but I don't plan to add an ubuntu pbuilder on this machine (yet)
[11:30] <Hobbsee> ahh
[11:31] <Hobbsee> Seveas: yes, exactly
[11:31] <raphink> it's just for Debian pbuilding so far
[11:56] <ajmitch> hi raphink
[12:00] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
[12:00] <ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
[12:09] <raphink> hi ajmitch
[12:09] <\sh> new wine 0.9.26 is uploaded to the archives..
[12:10] <\sh> urgs wrong channel ;)
[12:10] <raphink> koffice been building for more than 2 hours now
[12:10] <raphink> \sh: how does it taste?
[12:10] <ajmitch> \sh: still a devel channel :)
[12:10] <ajmitch> raphink: on that slow old box? ;)
[12:10] <raphink> ajmitch: on my desktop computer at work
[12:10] <ajmitch> ah right
[12:11] <ajmitch> not your fast build machine
[12:11] <raphink> indeed
[12:11] <ajmitch> desktop at work for me runs win XP
[12:11] <raphink> I'm sorry
[12:11] <\sh> raphink: looks clean ;) if everything is ok, wine 1.0 will be ready for feisty
[12:11] <raphink> ok :)
[12:11] <ajmitch> that'd be good
[12:12] <ajmitch> having the magic 1.0 number
[12:12] <raphink> huh
[01:19] <dipesh> Hobbsee: /me tries to interpret what you wrote at 09:44... so, you did create the koffice 1.6.1 packages?
[01:20] <Hobbsee> dipesh: i didnt, Riddell did
[01:20] <dipesh> Hobbsee: okeli, thx :)
[02:21] <raphink> Hobbsee: uploading koffice now
[02:22] <Hobbsee> raphink: yay :)
[02:23] <raphink> and now koffice-l10n
[02:23] <raphink> hop
[02:24] <Hobbsee> raphink: :D
[02:25] <raphink> :)
[03:06] <Tonio_> that can be called connections problems...
[03:07] <Jucato> :(
[03:08] <Tonio_> is nvidia driver broken on fiesty ?
[03:09] <Tonio_> I am on my desktop and with nvidia driver I can't use 1280x1024 resol
[03:09] <Tonio_> works with nv
[04:43] <bddebian> Heya
[04:44] <Jucato> hi bddebian!
[04:44] <bddebian> Heya Jucato
[06:56] <nixternal> how come kubuntu herd1 isn't up yet? ubuntu has theirs posted already
[06:57] <fdoving> riddell's not here.
[06:58] <fdoving> i think that's why.
[06:58] <fdoving> i've heard roumours they are being buildt though.
[06:58] <nixternal> hmm...not good
[06:58] <nixternal> ya i HERD ;) the same
[06:58] <nixternal> ok that was corny, shoot me
[06:58] <nixternal> ;p
[06:58] <Kryczek> *b00m*
[06:58] <nixternal> hahaha
[06:58] <Kryczek> :)
[06:59] <Kryczek> ahaha
[09:51] <ryanakca> Riddell:
[09:51] <ryanakca> ping
[09:51] <ryanakca> oops ... that was one line, btw :)
[10:01] <sebas> Tonio_: Are there still icons missing in guidance's svn, if so, wich?
[10:01] <Sime> sebas: Hoi
[10:02] <sebas> Sime: Hoi Sime :)
[10:02] <Sime> Tonio_: Hoi to you too.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> :)
[10:03] <Sime> in a friendly way of course. :-)
[10:03] <Hobbsee> hah
[10:03] <Sime> sebas: I might come down to T-Dose on Sunday, BTW.
[10:06] <sebas> Hah, cool!
[10:06] <sebas> I still need to work on slides, though.
[10:09] <Sime> it is pretty busy these days. But I should be able to do it.
[10:10] <Sime> just another week or two and then it is time for holidays in Hong Kong and Oz. :-D
[10:10] <Hobbsee> woo :)
[10:12] <Sime> the family is in Victoria, but we're planning to spend some time up north. Maybe Queensland.
[10:13] <Sime> Hobbsee: is there anything interesting to do in Sydney?
[10:14] <Hobbsee> Sime: general touristy things, if that interests you.  when do you go?
[10:14] <Hobbsee> meeting people
[10:17] <Sime> I (and Deb) need to fill in two weeks just after new years.
[10:17] <Hobbsee> a bit early for LCA then, i think
[10:24] <Tonio_> Sime: I'm watching the tv :) brb
[11:31] <nixternal> how is NZ this time of year?
[11:32] <ajmitch> just fine
[11:33] <nixternal> this time next year i could be basking in the NZ sun
[11:33] <nixternal> woohoo
[11:33] <ajmitch> holiday, or moving here?
[11:33] <nixternal> possibly moving
[11:34] <ajmitch> where in NZ?
[11:34] <nixternal> Auckland
[11:34] <ajmitch> ah, poor chap
[11:34] <nixternal> is it bad?
[11:34] <ajmitch> no, it's just Auckland :)
[11:35] <nixternal> hehe
[11:35] <nixternal> a friend of mine is working closely with a new startup and they are interested in having a Business/Marketing Manager was well as a Solaris/HP-UX nerd
[11:36] <ajmitch> ok
[11:37] <ajmitch> sure, get me a job there too ;)
[11:37] <ajmitch> I don't have to move as far
[11:37] <nixternal> i will hire you first ;)
[11:37] <nixternal> especially if i take the management position
[11:39] <nixternal> i was hoping for greece..but the guys starting up the business are from NZ
[11:40] <sebas> Greece is nice :)
[11:40] <nixternal> that is where my daughter was born..i love it there
[11:40] <ajmitch> NZ is nice too :)
[11:40] <nixternal> Chicago is cold
[11:40] <nixternal> ;p
[11:40] <ajmitch> down in dunedin, it can snow during winter
[11:41] <ajmitch> but nothing like chicago :)
[11:41] <nixternal> oooh
[11:41] <nixternal> we are awaiting a blizzard right now..i think imbrandon is in it as we speak
[11:41] <ajmitch> if we had an inch of snow on the ground in the centre of the city, the city would stop
[11:41] <ajmitch> auckland is warmer, though
[11:44] <fdoving> an inch.. heh.. we've already had ~40 cm this year, it's gone now though. :)
[11:45] <nixternal> http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?in_article_id=27321&in_page_id=2
[11:45] <nixternal> thank god I live in such a wonderful country
[11:45] <nixternal> wth was that dude thinking
[11:55] <fdoving> nite.
[11:58] <nixternal> g'nite


[17:04] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230911)


[09:05] <czajkowski> ara: I logged it bug 532068
[09:05] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 532068 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) "Upgrading from karmic2lucid is giving error of open office dependency issue (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532068
[09:16] <ara> czajkowski, ok, thanks! I will try to raise the attention from the desktop team
[09:17] <czajkowski> ara: cheers
[09:17] <czajkowski> ara: mvo asked me to attach /var/lib/dpkg/status so I did.
[09:36] <mahesh> hi friends
[09:36] <mahesh> is thr any one
[09:36] <mahesh> can help me
[09:37] <mahesh> SIGHUP killing the process
[10:01] <mvo> czajkowski: I can reproduce it, marked the bug as high
[10:01] <czajkowski> mvo: oh we'll keep you :) cheets
[10:01] <czajkowski> *cheers
[10:58] <ara> morning davmor2
[10:59] <davmor2> morning ara
[10:59] <davmor2> me thinks fader_ forgot to set himself away :)
[10:59] <davmor2> oh no just this box
[11:03] <davmor2> that's better not resetting all the time
[11:03] <davmor2> morning ara
[11:03] <ara> hehehe
[11:04] <ara> davmor2, did you see my email about testing ubiquity? sent to ubuntu-qa mailing list
[11:05] <davmor2> spoke too soon
[11:08] <ara> davmor2, did you see my email about testing ubiquity? sent to ubuntu-qa mailing list
[11:08] <davmor2> yes vaguely
[11:08] <davmor2> was in London again yesterday
[11:09] <ara> nice :)
[11:09] <ara> davmor2, can you help with some of the amd64 testcases?
[11:09] <ara> davmor2, they are at pairwise.qa.ubuntu.com
[11:10] <davmor2> I'll have a look after if my connection stays up long enough
[11:27] <ara> mvo, software centre crashes in the last ubuntu image
[11:27] <ara> mvo, bug
[11:27] <ara> mvo, bug 532565
[11:28] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 532565 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with AttributeError in __init__() (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532565
[11:52] <davmor2> right ara things seems to be back to normal on irc now
[11:53] <ara> \o/
[11:56] <ara> davmor2, so, if you can help with the ubiquity amd64 testing, it would be great
[11:57] <ara> davmor2, they are specially interested in Kubuntu
[11:57] <davmor2> yeap on it now it'll only be in vm for now although if I get some breathing space after I'll have a go on hw
[12:00] <ara> davmor2, thanks!
[12:02] <davmor2> the slideshow bug was one I pointed ev at but didn't have time to do anything about
[12:02] <mvo> ara: thanks, let me check
[12:51] <ara> mvo, might be
[12:51] <ara> mvo, I have only tried i386
[12:56] <mvo> ara: if you can reproduce it, can you either attach sources.list or add a "print channel" to /usr/share/software-center/softwarecenter/view/viewswitcher.p (before line 172) and give me the output?
[12:57] <ara> mvo, I don't have that kvm image anymore, but I'll try to reproduce in a new one
[12:57] <mvo> ara: no worries, its not urgent
[12:58] <mvo> ara: I will also ask garry if he can reproduce it
[12:58] <ara> mvo, ok
[13:12] <davmor2> ara: any reason there are so few install options in 64bit?
[13:12] <ara> davmor2, what do you mean?
[13:13] <davmor2> http://pairwise.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/3722 so's only auto resize-freesoftware
[13:15] <ara> davmor2, because it is a pairwise approach
[13:15] <ara> davmor2, we generate teh minimum set of combinations
[13:15] <ara> davmor2, we cannot cover all the possibilities in every ubiquity upload
[15:38] <fader_> Has anyone installed and subsequently booted from today's desktop image?
[16:00] <mdeslaur> cr3: didn't like my joke? :)
[16:00] <cr3> mdeslaur: I'm looking forward to the tar and feathers at the next uds :)
[16:00] <davmor2> fader_: I have in vm
[16:00] <fader_> davmor2: Was it daily-live or an alternate?
[16:01] <davmor2> live
[16:01] <mdeslaur> cr3: ah! that explains it :)
[16:01] <fader_> davmor2: alexmoldovan says that the alternates don't manage to install X
[16:01] <davmor2> testing ubiquity on 64bit for ara
[16:01] <fader_> Which seems like a Bad Thing
[16:01] <fader_> :)
[16:01] <cr3> mdeslaur: I'm missing one more review and then I'll submit to mathiaz for inclusion in lucid along with a ffe, which I hope will be accepted
[16:02] <davmor2> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html
[16:02] <mdeslaur> cr3: once you fill out the ffe, let me know and I'll comment in it
[16:02] <cr3> fader_: who needs X anyways
[16:02] <fader_> cr3: You know ratpoison still depends on X, right? :)
[16:02] <mdeslaur> cr3: is the dbus-root code in lucid right now? or is it the same checkbox as karmic?
[16:02] <cr3> mdeslaur: thanks for the offer, much appreciated. I have to admit I'm a bit stressed about it :/
[16:03] <cr3> mdeslaur: I believe karmic has dbus-root code too
[16:03] <cr3> mdeslaur: but karmic has no third party tests which limits damage quite considerably
[16:03] <mdeslaur> cr3: ok
[16:03] <cr3> "third party" as in tests branched from the outside into /tmp
[16:03] <mdeslaur> cr3: does lucid have the third party tests?
[16:05] <davmor2> alexmoldovan: fancy breaking daily, what did you do that for?
[16:05] <cr3> mdeslaur: nope
[16:05] <mdeslaur> cr3: hmm
[16:06] <cr3> mdeslaur: but lucid has a very old checkbox compared to what I'm trying to propose
[16:06] <mdeslaur> ok, we'll see
[16:06] <fader_> alexmoldovan: Don't let him push you around; I've got your back dude :)
[16:06] <davmor2> alexmoldovan: was this on 32 or 64bit?
[16:07] <alexmoldovan> davmor2, let me see
[16:07] <alexmoldovan> davmor2: let me see
[16:11] <alexmoldovan> davmor2: it's Xubuntu 10.04 "Lucid Lynx" - Alpha i386 (20100305)
[16:11] <davmor2> meh
[16:13] <davmor2> hang on then
[16:32] <fader_> Everybody blame alexmoldovan when things break :D
[16:33] <fader_> davmor2, alexmoldovan: I'll try installing xubuntu alt i386 in a vm and see if I get the same X breakage
[16:33] <fader_> I know alexmoldovan is busy right now working on bugs and davmor2 is probably too lazy
[16:33] <fader_> :P
[16:34] <davmor2> it's already running :P
[16:34] <cr3> fader_: so alex has become the new davmor2?
[16:34] <cr3> maybe he should change his nick to davmor3
[16:34] <fader_> cr3: Nah, alexmoldovan is actually doing things ;)
[16:35] <davmor2> fader_: I might have to get to uds just so I can slap you around a bit :D
[16:35] <fader_> davmor2: Nah, you even blow off UDS... I'm not worried.
[16:36] <davmor2> fader_: it's only a long drive away I might just turn up slap you and drive home again ;)
[16:37] <sbeattie> ara: will the next ubiquity upload test have the same set of pairs, or will we generate a new set of random pairs the next go-around?
[16:37] <alexmoldovan> funny :)
[16:40] <davmor2> sbeattie: no ara!
[16:41] <sbeattie> davmor2: oh, bah!
[16:41] <davmor2> sbeattie: might just take a while to answer you ;)
[16:42] <sbeattie> that's what I get for not reading scrollback all the way forward.
[16:55] <fader_> alexmoldovan, davmor2: xubuntu alt i386 gives me X in a VM
[16:55] <fader_> alexmoldovan: Were you seeing that behavior on *all* systems or only some of them?
[16:56] <alexmoldovan> fader_, davmor2 : on all
[16:56] <fader_> alexmoldovan: Weird.  I had thought maybe it was a specific graphics card issue or something
[16:57] <davmor2> I haz x too
[16:57] <fader_> davmor2: In a VM or on real hardware?
[16:57] <alexmoldovan> fader_: no, I tryed this even on a Toshiba with core i5 that has the graphics integrated in the CPU
[16:57] <davmor2> vm I can try on hw but not for a bit
[16:58] <fader_> alexmoldovan: Bizarre.  Since it seems to be happening in the lab but not anywhere else, I wonder if it's environmental
[16:58] <fader_> My vote would be that we wait and see if it happens on Monday's image as well before getting too excited
[16:58] <alexmoldovan> fader_, davmor2 : right now we have a xubuntu-desktop install going on, I'll see what happens
[16:58] <fader_> alexmoldovan: We have so many other bugs to file :D
[16:59] <alexmoldovan> fader_: I'll go in the lab to try out the solutions from ubuntugeek, then we could work on those bugs
[17:00] <fader_> alexmoldovan: Perfect... that's why you're a rockstar :D
[17:03] <alexmoldovan> fader_, davmor2 : xubuntu-DESKTOP booted correctly, but still no network applet
[17:04] <fader_> alexmoldovan: Yeah, sounds like bug 520589
[17:04] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 520589 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network manager icon does not appear in notification panel at startup (affects: 2)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520589
[17:05] <davmor2> alexmoldovan: are you sure in vm I get to terminals
[17:05] <davmor2> they are admittedly black on dark so not great
[17:07] <davmor2> alexmoldovan: http://www.davmor2.co.uk/xub-desk.png
[17:07] <davmor2> next to the update icon
[17:51] <sbeattie> did anyone see garbled text like so on the first screen of the installer? http://www.nxnw.org/~steve/tmp/Screenshot-xubuntu-test-amd64-ubuiquity-text-oddity.png
[17:52] <davmor2> sbeattie: what happens if you up the resolution?
[17:54] <sbeattie> davmor2: that's as high as it goes in vbox without install the guest tools
[17:54] <sbeattie> if I resize the window the text doesn't correct itself
[17:55] <davmor2> I'd bug it then cause all the netbook are around the 600 high mark
[17:56] <davmor2> sbeattie: I don't see it on 1024x768 in kvm
[17:56]  * sbeattie is installing the guest tools now and will resize the guest.
[17:57] <sbeattie> davmor2: but yeah, I'll file a bug on it.
[17:57] <davmor2> sbeattie: as I say it should display correctly at that res, because of netbooks if nothing else
[17:58] <fader_> sbeattie: Updating my image now, I'll see if I can reproduce it
[18:01] <fader_> sbeattie: Confirmed, the same thing happens in 'install xubuntu' mode (as opposed to 'try xubuntu' as your screenshot appears to be)
[18:38] <davmor2> fader_: can you have a look at bug 532836 and just let me know if it makes sense?
[18:38] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 532836 in gdm (Ubuntu) "If ambiance theme is used there should be a gdm theme to match (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532836
[19:20] <fader_> davmor2: I'll be honest, I'm not entirely clear on it
[19:20] <fader_> Are you wanting the gdm theme to be automatically changed when the gtk theme is?
[19:22] <davmor2> fader_: look at the gdm screen.  It's got the light grey of the radiance theme.  However the default theme seems to be the darker ambiance theme.  Wouldn't it look more polished if the gdm theme matched the actual theme?
[19:24] <fader_> davmor2: I'm going to have to google for those themes, as neither of them seems to be installed on my lucid machine by default
[19:24] <fader_> Ah
[19:24] <fader_> Heh
[19:24] <fader_> Okay, seems like those are the 'real' names for light and dark :)
[19:25] <davmor2> yes
[19:25] <davmor2> so radiance is light
[19:25] <davmor2> ambiance is dark
[19:26] <fader_> davmor2: I see what you mean now.  It's certainly worth hearing from the artsy types about it, but I don't know enough about design and color and whatnot to say
[20:09] <cr3> mdeslaur: if you have a moment, I would appreciate if you could have a look at my ffe detailed in bug #532882. if you notice anything missing from my ffe bug report, please let me know.
[20:09] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 532882 in checkbox (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Candidate revision checkbox_0.9 (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532882
[20:09] <cr3> it's been a while since I last submitted a ffe bug report
[21:03] <mdeslaur> cr3: done
[21:11] <cr3> mdeslaur: thanks for not mentionning anything about tar and feathers in your comment
[21:13] <mdeslaur> cr3: hehe
[23:01] <waltercool> Hey... i have a ehci_hcd bug!
[23:01] <waltercool> some tips for trace it?
[23:02] <waltercool> thats the bug: http://pastebin.com/JL2hRhdb


[03:11] <Neo> hello - I have a question reguarding ipv6 link-local routes that get set by netplan
[03:11] <Neo> is there a way to set the metric of those to something other than 1
[14:30] <LukasM[m]> Neo: If you use static routes, defined in Netplan's YAML config, you can make use of the `metric: ...` setting. Otherwise, those are probably routes auto-generated by the kernel and you cannot influcence them directly through Netplan.


[05:59] <nocco> For what reason do my pc with ubuntu 17.10, now have the cinnamon menubar?
[08:01] <lotuspsychje> !info gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock artful
[08:03] <nocco> lotuspsychje: Sorry I do not follow :/
[08:04] <lotuspsychje> nocco: this the new dash to dock fork on ubuntu 17.10
[08:05] <lotuspsychje> nocco: thet still working on it
[08:05] <nocco> alright
[08:05] <nocco> but does that have anything to do with that my gnome do not launch or something like that?
[08:06] <nocco> it seems that I get the cinnamon menu or something similar.. :/
[08:06] <lotuspsychje> nocco: no, it hasnt got to do with your issue
[08:07] <nocco> ok, sorry
[08:07] <lotuspsychje> nocco: repeat your issue here once in a while or consider a new !bug
[08:08] <nocco> okey, thanks! :)
[10:33] <nocco> I think that my ubuntu 17.10 is not loading gnome and rather loading cinnamon, looks very similar to that. That happend after I updated it yesterday. I do not user ubuntu or linux regularly so could you point in the right direction. In which logs should I lock for this problem? What could have happen? Why cinnamon? Thanks!
[10:34] <nocco> damn typo. user=use lock=look


[00:04] <melodie> Chipzz thanks!
[00:19] <Andy80> hi
[00:20] <Andy80> I'm sorry to ask this, but what's happening to ubuntu-devel mailing list?
[00:20] <Andy80> I'm getting TONS of email since a couple of hours
[00:20] <Andy80> and I cannot stop them
[00:20] <Andy80> I've tried unsubscribing from ubuntu-devel ml and I'm still getting them
[00:23] <ogra_> there were 10 mails today on that list
[00:24] <Andy80> really I'm getting tons of them
[00:25] <Andy80> I don't know if these are just delayed emails and I'm getting them all at once
[00:25] <Andy80> but it's being very bad
[00:25] <ogra_> sounds more like a problem with your mailserver
[00:27] <Andy80> ogra_, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/thread.html looking at the archive it seems the emails are a lot... anyway I'm using GMail, surely I can't fix it
[00:27] <cjohnston_> Andy80: over the past couple of days the list has 'blown up' in response to a proposal that was made
[00:27] <ogra_> not sure what you define a lot
[00:28] <Andy80> ogra_, I'm getting an email every 5-10 seconds
[00:28] <ogra_> right, there was some discussion, surely not what i define a lot though
[00:28] <Andy80> I didn't check if they're duplicated or not
[00:28] <Andy80> but it looks like they're not stopping
[00:28] <cjohnston_> I'd say there has been 100+ since Thursday.  5-10 seconds though is not what I'm seeing..
[00:29] <Andy80> I just marked everything as read and archived, and now I've other 6 emails :(
[00:29] <Andy80> I'm not joking, really :(
[00:29] <cjohnston_> Andy80: try checking a couple of them and see if your just very delayed in getting the emails that I've been getting over the last few days
[00:30] <Andy80> I will try to monitor the next I get
[00:31] <geofft> Andy80: you're not the only person I've heard who's getting the mails all at once
[00:31] <Andy80> geofft, do you know if those people were using GMail aswell?
[00:31] <ogra_> i'm actually forwarding that list through gmail and have no delays
[00:32] <cjwatson> If you need sysadmin help, you'd need to try #canonical-sysadmin; the greatest access level you're likely to find here is that of list moderator, which isn't sufficient to debug this kind of thing
[00:33] <ogra_> (gets me cheap spam filtering to hook gmail in the loop)
[00:34] <Andy80> cjohnston_, thanks! If I keep getting emails I will try to ask there if anyone can investigate (maybe at the moment nobody is working, better tomorrow)
[00:35] <geofft> Andy80: I suspect so.
[00:35] <cjwatson> You might find the start of the APAC shift
[00:56] <melodie> good night
[01:10] <jbicha> I stopped receiving ubuntu-devel emails several days ago, so I resubscribed to the list but started getting the missing emails a few hours ago too (also on gmail)
[01:12] <Andy80> jbicha, it looks like a common problem then :)
[01:13] <Andy80> time to go to bed now ;)
[01:13] <Andy80> see you all!
[01:26] <lifeless> SpamapS: ^ could have been what happpened to you ?
[03:52] <SpamapS> lifeless: indeed, though I have not seen any of the old ones arrive just yet
[03:53] <SpamapS> lifeless: and they definitely stopped on my last day at canonical.. so my guess is that it was some kind of sweep for my email/name that was too broad
[03:53] <SpamapS> or I was more bitter than I remember, and I did it and forgot ;)
[03:53] <infinity> SpamapS: Hah.  Probably just overbroad.  Or you were subscribed via you canonical.com address?
[03:53] <infinity> s/you/your/
[03:54] <SpamapS> I am 99.9% sure I subscribed w/ my @ubuntu.com email
[03:54] <SpamapS> but, there was some trouble with that particular email...
[03:54] <broder> i did not, fwiw, so probably not an @ubuntu.com issue
[03:54] <SpamapS> because I used clint@ .. but my launchpad id was clint-fewbar .. so I was sort of abusing my canonical username
[03:54] <SpamapS> I resolved that before my last day, but its entirely possible the sweep and the special forwarding privileges I got were not compatible
[03:55] <infinity> SpamapS: *nod*
[03:57] <bradm> gmail decided it didn't want to talk to our mail server for a little while after we upgraded it
[04:05] <bradm> SpamapS: fwiw, your clint@ address is still subscribed, and mail is being delivered to it.
[04:06] <SpamapS> bradm: I re-subscribed earlier today
[04:06] <SpamapS> bradm: at which time the emails started flowing again
[04:06] <bradm> SpamapS: if you're not on gmail, days ago.
[04:06] <SpamapS> my MX is a barracuda run by my friend's hosting company
[04:07] <SpamapS> but again, the ubuntu-devel emails stopped basically the day I departed Canonical, so I'm pretty sure either I unsubbed, or something went wonky
[04:09] <bradm> SpamapS: you were on ubuntu-devel with your @canonical.com address
[04:13] <SpamapS> bradm: *DOH*
[04:14] <SpamapS> bradm: thanks for checking
[04:19] <bradm> SpamapS: no worries.
[05:58] <pitti_> Good morning
[07:21] <pitti> ricotz: FYI, I uploaded https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udisks2/2.0.92-0ubuntu1 to raring, with a proper port of the "mount in /media" patch
[07:28] <ricotz> pitti, alright, thanks
[08:06] <dholbach> good morning
[08:16] <Quintasan> Hello
[09:29] <tkamppeter> Is there somewhere documentation about how to participate in the sessions of the UDS?
[09:35] <Riddell> tkamppeter: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/2013-03-05/ has links to videos and irc rooms
[09:35] <Riddell> but I can't find anything about how to use google hangouts
[09:38] <tumbleweed> tkamppeter: someone mentioned https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OnAir/BestPractices on the planet
[09:44] <Laney> "The required participants for a meeting will also be given a link to participate in the hangout"
[09:44] <Laney> hmm
[09:49] <xnox> Laney: yeah, I don't like that. I did use required participation - only to force the scheduler to be sensible.
[09:50] <xnox> as well as to subscribe other people.
[09:50] <Laney> Unfortunate constraints imposed by the technology
[09:51] <xnox> Laney: all our base are belong to G+ ?
[09:51] <Laney> something like that
[09:52] <ogra_> better than to facebook :)
[10:09] <zyga> hey
[10:09] <zyga> update-manager is borked on raring as on version 1:0.183
[10:09] <zyga> someone might want to figure out an interesting fix
[10:10] <zyga> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5584706/
[10:10] <zyga> dholbach: do you know who maintains update-manager after mvo left?
[10:11] <dholbach> zyga, might be good to ask mvo directly - he's still on IRC you know :)
[10:11] <zyga> mvo: ping?
[10:11] <zyga> dholbach: yeah but he's not required to be here anymore
[10:11] <zyga> pitti: perhaps you know (unless mvo is faster) ^^
[10:11] <dholbach> well he's still part of the Ubuntu and Debian projects
[10:11] <Laney> have you filed a bug?
[10:12] <zyga> Laney: filing
[10:12] <zyga> it's a bit tricky
[10:12] <zyga> since ubuntu-bug rejects the bug :)
[10:12] <zyga> as updates are available
[10:12]  * zyga thinks that's an interesting exception where we should still be able to do so
[10:13] <pitti> zyga: the two error messages look fairly self-explanatory?
[10:13] <zyga> pitti: yes, they od
[10:13] <zyga> do
[10:14] <zyga> ok, filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1144058
[11:04] <ivanka> hey seb128, have you got a sec?
[11:05] <seb128> ivanka, hey, sure
[11:05] <ivanka> seb128, how do I find what blueprints are being registered for this week?
[11:05] <seb128> ivanka, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-1303
[11:05] <ivanka> seb128, sorry, there is probably an email buried in my inbox but was at MWC and still trying to catch up
[11:06] <mvo> zyga: hi, sorry for the delay - its group maintained AIUI, mterry is doing quite a bit of work on it too
[11:06] <seb128> ivanka, or just check the schedule http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/2013-03-05/display?edit and http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/2013-03-06/display?edit
[11:06] <seb128> ups
[11:06] <seb128> without the edit part
[11:06] <seb128> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/2013-03-05/display
[11:06] <seb128> ivanka, let me know if need more details
[11:06] <seb128> ivanka, do you have sessions to add? the schedule is pretty packaged already, we had to make call on stuffs to drop from the list for client
[11:07] <ivanka> thanks seb128 - that should keep me quiet for the moment
[11:07] <seb128> ivanka, the community track might have some free slots still though
[11:07] <ivanka> seb128, I will have a look, but I spoke to pmcgowan before MWC and he suggested that the focus for the first UDS will be on fixes and background stuff so I get some time to prioritise UI elements
[11:08] <seb128> ok
[11:08] <zyga> mvo: hey, thanks for getting back to me
[11:08] <ivanka> seb128, we are just getting back the usability testing results and need to look at what design changes we need to make
[11:08] <ivanka> seb128, off to check the schedule! :-)
[11:08] <seb128> ivanka, good luck!
[11:08] <seb128> ;-)
[11:11] <ivanka> hey ckpringle there is a UDS session for app development
[11:11] <ivanka> ckpringle, I am subscribing you and making your participation essential
[11:11] <ivanka> ckpringle, I shall add Christina too? Mika? Anyone else?
[11:11] <ckpringle> ivanka: I think that is the session dpm is organising, we spoke about it last week but do you know when exactly it will be?
[11:12] <ckpringle> ivanka: the three of us would be nice, if we can't all go I at least will though.
[11:16] <ivanka> ckpringle, xchat just crashed on me! OK - will add the others
[11:16] <ivanka> ckpringle, I think it is one of the early sessions http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/2013-03-05/display
[11:16] <ivanka> ckpringle, as long as the sessions don't move too much
[11:17] <ckpringle> ivanka: there is also one at 6pm
[11:17] <ckpringle> ivanka "Ubuntu touch core apps project"
[11:32] <dpm> ckpringle, ivanka, the schedule is still a bit in flux, as we're populating it right now, and some sessions will need to be reshuffled if they clash with others with the same essential participants. Let me come back to you guys later on on the design sessions
[11:33] <ivanka> dpm, I am am just assigning people to Blueprints so, if they can't attend that can still contribute discussion points.
[11:34] <dpm> ivanka, excellent, sounds good
[11:35] <ivanka> seb128, what's Ubuntu Friendly?
[11:35] <seb128> ivanka, https://friendly.ubuntu.com/what-is-ubuntu-friendly/
[11:35] <seb128> ;-)
[11:36] <ivanka> seb128, oooh nice
[11:39] <ivanka> xnox, hi
[11:39] <ivanka> dpm, who is in charge of the schedule?
[11:42] <dpm> ivanka, there is a track lead for each track in charge of the schedule. For app development I am, then seb128 and jasoncwarner_ are for client, Daviey for server... etc.
[11:42] <dpm> sorry there are 2 track leads I meant to say
[11:42] <dpm> popey and I for app development, etc, etc
[11:42] <ivanka> dpm, great, thanks
[11:42] <dpm> Let me see if I can get you the full list
[11:42] <dpm> ok
[11:43] <ivanka> dpm, sorry, I am frantically trying to catchup as I was at MWC  last week
[11:43] <dpm> ivanka, no worries, happy to help in what I can
[11:43] <ivanka> thanks dpm
[11:43] <dpm> us who weren't in MWC are also frantically catching up at the pace things are running now ;)
[11:47] <melodie> hi
[11:55] <melodie> hello
[11:56] <melodie> I am trying to learn how to use gfxboot-examples in order to get a custom /isolinux/bootsplash archive with a init file in it containing a custom 800x600 jpg image. I read the examples, but when it comes to putting this in practice I am stucked with questions (the exemple is not clear enough to me).
[11:57] <melodie> I have also read this post: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-December/013846.html
[11:57] <melodie> and I wonder if someone here could help me understand how to use the exemple the right way ?
[11:58] <melodie> this is in Ubuntu Precise
[12:51] <bdrung> dholbach: re bug #1140613, please unsubscribe the sponsors team and set the bug to 'fix committed'
[12:51] <bdrung> dholbach: and this package has a dependency wait
[12:52] <dholbach> hum, weird - let me have another look
[14:12] <melodie_> hi, how are the official ubuntu versions creating their isolinux/bootlogo file ?
[14:13] <melodie_> I ask because I tried https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gfxboot-examples/+bug/1077339
[14:13] <melodie_> and it fails
[14:14] <melodie_> I would just want to change the color there: http://askubuntu.com/questions/10258/how-to-change-live-cd-splash-screen
[14:15] <melodie_> same as the one who posted : I can change the first screen but not the following, even after unpacking initrd.lz and changing the ubuntu-plymouth-text "black" hexa code line
[14:15] <melodie_> and recreating it
[14:15] <melodie_> it shows only one very small second at shutdown, but none at reboot, so I supposed the guilty one is located in bootlogo (init file) ?
[14:16] <cjwatson> it's built by the gfxboot-theme-ubuntu package
[14:16] <cjwatson> gfxboot-examples is of little interest to me
[14:17] <melodie_> hello cjwatson
[14:18] <melodie_> is there a tutorial somewhere ? I have also installed gfxboot-theme-ubuntu package in my ubuntu precise host, and I seem to be unable to find a howto
[14:18] <cjwatson> no
[14:18] <cjwatson> at least not afaik
[14:19] <melodie_> :-(
[14:20] <melodie_> perhaps if I change the hex color code in a *.inc file there and use a "make" command ?
[14:21] <melodie_> I can copy the content of the gfxboot-theme-ubuntu directory to /tmp and do tests there
[14:24] <cjwatson> in general you should start from the gfxboot-theme-ubuntu source package and not from any other version of it, certainly
[14:24] <cjwatson> it's a standard-Debian-format source package so you can build it in the usual way
[14:24] <melodie_> I am not yet used to packaging
[14:25] <melodie_> is the build command as presented in the examples ? I posted here the test I did: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gfxboot-examples/+bug/1077339/comments/1  "# make -C themes/example_07"
[14:29] <melodie_> getting gfxboot-theme-ubuntu source package now. What would be nice would be to know if there is a dedicated forum, mailing list, or chan to learn using it ?
[14:33] <melodie_> reading into common.inc file now
[14:33] <ricotz> dholbach, thanks for syncing the libreoffice deps :)
[14:34] <dholbach> ricotz, no worries
[14:37] <josepht> sorry
[14:41] <xnox> ivanka: heya. Sorry, missed your ping from 11:39, what's up? =)
[14:41] <xnox> (#ubuntu-devel is busy with planning everything today)
[14:46] <pitti> slangasek: I'd like to participate in the hangout of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1303-consolekit-logind-migration -- what do I need to do for this? (cjohnston said to contact the track lead)
[14:46] <cjwatson> melodie_: any Debian-format source package can be built using debuild (read its man page for details); the entry point into each package's build system is always debian/rules
[14:47] <melodie_> cjwatson thanks (I will restart learning packaging soon) just now what I try to understand while reading in the source package files is how the background for the first live splash is setup
[14:47] <seb128> pitti, on this topic, I just moved it to 18utc, I hope it works for you
[14:48] <pitti> seb128: sure, I'll just skip Taekwondo
[14:48] <seb128> pitti, I want to try to have robert_ancell there and he's not going to be up much earlier I guess
[14:48] <seb128> pitti, oh, let me put it tomorrow 18utc then
[14:48] <pitti> seb128: no worries
[14:48] <melodie_> cjohnston btw, I have found someone to sponsor a openbox-menu package I did and will redo it up to date for debian next. and the mentor talks the same language as me. :)
[14:48] <seb128> pitti, well, it's the same
[14:48] <pitti> seb128: I don't plan on going anyway, too many UDS sessions
[14:48] <seb128> pitti, ok, as you want
[14:48] <melodie_> sorry
[14:49] <melodie_> I tabbed too fast: cjwatson
[14:49] <melodie_> :]
[14:53] <jbicha> I'm getting chroot problems with building armhf on nasl, I've hit retry a few times but it keeps getting stuck https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opal/3.10.10~dfsg-1/+build/4343624
[14:56] <melodie_> cjwatson this is what the project looks like once booted: http://meets.free.fr/debian/images/OBUbuntu-RC3.png
[15:00] <Laney> jbicha: yeah looks sad: https://launchpad.net/builders/nasl/+history - ping czajkowski in #launchpad
[15:05] <ckpringle> dpm: any chance we can make the core apps project earlier (currently at 7-8pm0
[15:06] <dpm> ckpringle, I will try, but there are a lot of sessions to coordinate and we're all on the same boat
[15:08] <tumbleweed> rickspencer3: are we going to have a UDS session to actually discuss whether we are dropping non-LTS releases or not? I see sessions scheduled about the details, but nothing where we'd actually make that decision and drop 13.04
[15:08] <rickspencer3> hi tumbleweed
[15:09] <rickspencer3> I'm not sure what the plan is for that
[15:10] <tumbleweed> yeah, me neither. I'm just getting concerned that some people see it as a forgone conclusion while others feel that we haven't had the UDS discussion about it yet
[15:10] <rickspencer3> I'm not certain what kind of discussion would add to what's already been discussed, tbh
[15:10] <cjwatson> heh, there really ought to be something
[15:10] <rickspencer3> cjwatson, tumbleweed what would such a session look like?
[15:10] <cjwatson> if only because if we don't we'll spend time later answering the question why not
[15:11] <cjwatson> the whole question of monthly snapshots/updates/whatever deserves a session of its own, I guess; and then there's the question of how Ubuntu Desktop's decisions affect flavours
[15:11] <rickspencer3> oh, I thought there was a session for monthly snapshots
[15:12] <tumbleweed> yes, we have that
[15:12] <rickspencer3> and I though slangasek brought one forward for the flavors
[15:12] <Laney> how does it get decided whether we do 13.04?
[15:12] <cjwatson> oh, yes, I've found it now
[15:12] <cjwatson> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21596/foundations-1303-monthly-snapshots/
[15:12] <Laney> especially with respect to its release schedule
[15:12] <tumbleweed> I haven't seen a flavours one yet
[15:13] <rickspencer3> Laney, aiui the current idea is that we decide some more details and then go to the techboard
[15:13]  * micahg sees 3 sessions missing, was going to pen a mail to -devel (who, when, how of rolling release)
[15:13] <Laney> well, we have Feature Freeze on Thursday for example
[15:13] <cjwatson> fwiw, as Martin said, I don't see how the techboard can make a plausible decision other than "we can't do 13.04 if Canonical isn't funding the engineering to make it happen"
[15:14] <rickspencer3> cjwatson, there is that
[15:14] <tumbleweed> there is that, but it hasn't been explicitly stated that I've seen
[15:14] <cjwatson> but we can do our best to make sure all the other things around that are as good as they can be
[15:14] <cjwatson> tumbleweed: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001513.html
[15:14] <soren> cjwatson: Do you happen to know if we're going forward with the TB meeting this evening in spite of UDS going on?
[15:14] <micahg> cjwatson: right, but for Canonical to prematurely yank funding if Ubuntu isn't ready to roll seems implausible as well
[15:14] <tumbleweed> cjwatson: that doesn't say "canonical won't support non-LTS releases" it says people have been saynig that canonical is talking about this
[15:15]  * tumbleweed really needs to run, but I'll be back in 10 mins
[15:15] <cjwatson> tumbleweed: oh, ok, granted
[15:15] <cjwatson> soren: hm, I haven't seen an indication that we wouldn't.  that means I have a long few days :-/
[15:15] <cjwatson> I'm not sure I can make it given the demands
[15:15] <micahg> soren: UDS is tomorrow
[15:16] <soren> micahg: orly?
[15:16] <micahg> tomorrow + Wed
[15:16] <rickspencer3> soren, http://summit.ubuntu.com/
[15:16] <soren> Blimey. So it is.
[15:16]  * soren adjusts the date on his wrist watch. srsly
[15:16]  * micahg needed to catch up on the thread before penning the e-mail to devel about the missing sessions
[15:17] <soren> Stupid thing needs manual adjustment for non-31-day months. I must have gotten it wrong. :)
[15:25] <tumbleweed> cjwatson: right. so if we don't want to discuss it at the UDS, it'd help if canonical's plans were clear
[15:29] <tkamppeter> I have some questions to the online UDS. Can I participate without G+ account? Or without webcam (audio-only)?
[15:30] <melodie_> which one is the package containing debuild ?
[15:31] <Laney> melodie_: devscripts
[15:31] <melodie_> Laney thanks
[15:31] <Laney> sure
[16:19] <slangasek> mhall119: hmm, pitti asked about being included in the hangout for one of the foundations sessions... is there a particular process for how we handle who goes in which session, or is that just a matter of who we invite to the hangout at the time we set it up?
[16:20] <Laney> I saw somewhere that the 'required participants' get a link to join the hangout
[16:23] <slangasek> cjwatson, mhall119: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21641/community-1303-rolling-toolchain/ needs to be taken off the schedule, because doko's not available to discuss it; I've untargeted the blueprint from the sprint, is there anything else I need to do to get it off the schedule?
[16:24]  * tumbleweed heard that mentioned but haven't seen it documented anywhere
[16:24] <Laney> planet I think
[16:24]  * cjwatson has no idea I'm afraid
[16:24] <Laney> http://www.chrisjohnston.org/ubuntu/vuds
[16:25] <tumbleweed> do we have a way to get people who are talking a lot in IRC into the sessions?
[16:25] <tumbleweed> often the active participants aren't readily determinable in advance
[16:26] <Laney> you should be able to share the link out of band
[16:26] <Laney> (I guess)
[16:33] <tedg> slangasek, lool, xnox, Does it make sense to have a session on proposed solutions to manage ABI/API stability?
[16:34] <xnox> we had approx. similar one in Copenhagen, driven by steam coming to ubuntu and wanting to keep same binary around for as long as possible, ideally forever.
[16:35] <slangasek> cjwatson: haha, sorry, I meant cjohnston
[16:35] <xnox> but nothing per se, resulted from it.
[16:35] <xnox> (as far as I know)
[16:35] <xnox> tedg: isn't there already some "app development SDK/ABI/API" sessions?!
[16:35] <cjohnston> slangasek: your becoming hard to follow...  too many places lol
[16:36] <cjwatson> slangasek: ah :)
[16:36] <slangasek> Laney: right, that says "the required participants will be given a link"... I guess that means I can use summit to mark the people I want "required" in the hangout
[16:36] <tedg> xnox, I think they were mostly targetted at the individual libs instead of a general solution.  But I could have missed it.
[16:36] <cjwatson> I did wonder
[16:36] <Laney> slangasek: That's my understanding, but you have the author of the blog post here :-)
[16:36] <cjohnston> slangasek: they have to be marked as required
[16:36] <cjohnston> in summit
[16:36] <xnox> tedg: not sure, what do you have in mind for a session on proposed solutions to manage abi/api stability?
[16:36] <cjohnston> one sec
[16:36] <cjwatson> The gaming ABI session mostly ended up being about tracking ABI changes systematically so that we know when they happen and can manage them appropriately
[16:37] <slangasek> cjohnston: ok.  And I first need to mark them on the blueprint?
[16:37] <pitti> slangasek: I marked myself as "participation essential" in LP, but I understand that's not the same "required" as cjohnston means
[16:37] <tedg> xnox, I was thinking like the acc thing we discussed last week.
[16:37] <cjwatson> Since in the context of libraries we don't maintain it isn't meaningful to say "we won't change the ABI" - we need to find out when they change and keep compatibility packages around, etc.
[16:37] <tedg> xnox, And getting that to all libs.
[16:37] <cjohnston> slangasek: they need to be 'attending' via the BP.. essential on the BP doesnt matter..
[16:37] <tedg> cjwatson, I was also concerned about accidental changes, more than on purpose ones.
[16:38] <slangasek> pitti: I don't see you subscribed to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1303-logind-migration at all?
[16:38] <dobey> for some upstreams it's basically impossible to do that, sadly :-/
[16:38] <cjwatson> Right, for those we can only meaningfully find out about them post hoc
[16:38] <pitti> slangasek: that's the superseded one; https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1303-consolekit-logind-migration is the real thing AFAIUI
[16:38] <slangasek> pitti: oh blast, the wrong blueprint is linked to the summit session
[16:38] <cjwatson> As long as it's before release and in time to do something about it ...
[16:39] <tedg> cjwatson, Release?  I'm unfamiliar with this term you speak of  ;-)  We could block package build if it changes unknowningly, effectively like .symbols files.
[16:39] <slangasek> cjohnston: hi, sorry - I need http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21636/foundations-1303-logind-migration/ points to a wrong blueprint, I need to get https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1303-consolekit-logind-migration on the schedule in its place... what's the best way to do that?
[16:39] <cjwatson> tedg: Last I checked we were still doing an LTS :-P
[16:40] <cjwatson> tedg: Yes, perhaps some kind of autopkgtest or autopkgtest-like checks across the board would be helpful
[16:40] <cjwatson> So not block build (though packages can and do do that themselves) but block promotion to the release pocket?
[16:40] <tedg> Anyway, that's what I was thinking for the session.  If we had a plan there, then we could implement it on Canonical-libs first.
[16:41] <slangasek> cjohnston: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1303-consolekit-logind-migration is targeted to uds-1303, but I don't see it in the system anywhere
[16:41] <tedg> cjwatson, Sure, blocking getting out into the wild.  Which step I'm not as worried about.
[16:42] <cjwatson> We could already have Canonical libraries use whatever the dh_makeshlibs option to fail on symbols file mismatches
[16:42] <cjwatson> *option is
[16:42] <tedg> And we're migrating many of them to use that.
[16:42] <cjwatson> dh_makeshlibs -- -c2
[16:42] <tedg> But it's not really full ABI stability for things like structure sizes.
[16:42] <tedg> Which are really critical in the GObject world.
[16:43] <cjwatson> Indeed.  There are various ABI checker tools around - does abicheck handle that?
[16:43] <cjohnston> slangasek: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/2013-03-06/  1815.. isnt that the one you wnat
[16:44] <cjwatson> Or abi-compliance-checker
[16:44] <tedg> Yes, and I think that xnox was going to look into using it.
[16:44] <cjwatson> I think by now this is probably not a wheel we need to reinvent
[16:44]  * cjwatson nods
[16:44] <tedg> Basically adding a "symbols file" like thing to a package for the ABI.
[16:44] <cjwatson> Aha, that's what you meant by "acc"?  That was a bit cryptic for me.
[16:45] <cjwatson> Yep.  I approve :)
[16:45] <tedg> Sorry, yes, that's what I meant.
[16:45] <slangasek> cjohnston: yes... hmm, did something magically fix itself? :)
[16:45] <cjohnston> i dunno... im confused from trying to keepup with all of the links that kept getting posted
[16:45] <cjohnston> and im confused why its against client unless it was renamed from client
[16:46] <cjohnston> it should point to foundations and not client correct?
[16:47] <slangasek> cjohnston: it was renamed from client; it should be foundations, yes :)
[16:47] <cjohnston> and removed from the client room?
[16:47] <slangasek> cjohnston: I imagine so
[16:47] <slangasek> cjohnston: what's our hangout size limit?
[16:47] <cjwatson> (Though I'm not wild about abi-compliance-checker's configuration apparently being in XML :-/)
[16:48] <slangasek> configuration, or manifest?
[16:48] <cjwatson> Manifest
[16:48] <cjohnston> slangasek: its removed from the client room, and assigned to foundations. you should now have the ability to schedule it
[16:48] <slangasek> cjohnston: ta
[16:48] <cjwatson> Ah, it has some kind of alternative dump format too.  I haven't really looked into it deeply ...
[16:49] <cjohnston> slangasek: also, in the subnav, you will see 'review attendees'... thats where you mark people required
[16:49] <slangasek> cjohnston: yes, I know... I was halfway through that list when something reset the statuses on me ;)
[16:49] <cjohnston> hrm. ok
[16:49] <cjwatson> slangasek: Unrelatedly, I wonder if the GRUB efinet problem I'm seeing on my test system has anything to do with yours; it seems to just refuse to receive any packets ever, claiming (once I apply sufficient debugging) that the interface is uninitialised, but it can *transmit* packets just fine
[16:50] <cjwatson> It's very odd
[16:50] <pitti> Laney: can I ask you to set a britney block on pygobject? I'm about to upload 3.7.91, and while I don't know of anything that's broken I'm paranoid
[16:50] <Laney> oui
[16:50] <slangasek> cjwatson: that sounds roughly familiar
[16:50] <pitti> Laney: i. e. I'd like to wait on all reverse depends autopkgtests
[16:50] <pitti> Laney: merci mon ami :)
[16:50] <cjwatson> Specifically it's getting EFI_DEVICE_ERROR on EFI_SIMPLE_NETWORK_PROTOCOL.Receive
[16:50] <seb128> slangasek, http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/2013-03-06/display the logind one is at 18:15
[16:51] <cjwatson> slangasek: Are you still in a position to reproduce what you saw?
[16:51] <seb128> slangasek, I put it in the client track since after all we had some free slots
[16:52] <slangasek> tedg, cjwatson: so the question was whether we needed a session on ABI stability.  Does the appdev session have this covered, or do you need me to add something in the foundations track?
[16:52] <slangasek> seb128: ok
[16:52] <slangasek> cjwatson: with sufficient swapping of state into my brain, yes
[16:54] <cjwatson> slangasek: My current debugging patch is http://paste.ubuntu.com/5585573/ (note that that deliberately slows packet reception down to one poll every two seconds so that one can see what's going on); it would be interesting to apply that and see what error get_card_packet is hurling out
[16:54] <cjwatson> (That's against upstream trunk, ish, hopefully it roughly applies to 2.00)
[16:55] <cjohnston> slangasek: should http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21603/community-1303-plusone-maintenance/ be renamed to foundations, and not against community and foundations?
[16:55] <cjwatson> slangasek: Oh, you'll need to "set debug=efinet" for that to work, so either do that in shell/configuration before doing any network operations, or build the netboot image with grub-mknetdir --debug-image=efinet
[16:55] <tedg> slangasek, I don't see one that covers this topic, I'm not 100% we need one as it seems relatively straightforward, but perhaps to coordinate?
[16:56] <slangasek> cjwatson: ok, will try to have a look today
[16:56] <cjwatson> tedg: As long as somebody from foundations is in an appdev session as a general sanity check, I think we could deal with its output later
[16:57] <slangasek> tedg: so currently I'm feeling a bit too-many-cooks on the question of abi checking; I don't think there's a lot to discuss, we just need to implement ABI checking infrastructure which doesn't really require more meetings IMHO
[16:57] <cjwatson> amen
[16:57] <tedg> Heh, sounds good to me.
[16:58] <tedg> You'll be sending out weekly TPS reports on progress right?  ;-)
[16:58] <cjohnston> +1
[16:59] <slangasek> tedg: lool, tvoss and I are already planning to provide Canonical upstreams with a best practices guide for ABI stability, and to identify the correct infrastructure to check at package upload time that ABI/API hasn't silently broken
[16:59] <cjwatson> slangasek: I think if that fails (efinet) my next step is to try to dump out and disassemble this system's UEFI somehow :-/
[16:59] <slangasek> cjwatson: fun
[16:59] <cjwatson> In order to have some freaking clue what it's doing
[16:59] <cjwatson> It's still possible that GRUB's EFI calling shims are broken, though (a) I've hand-checked them (b) you'd think we'd have noticed
[17:01] <cjohnston> slangasek: lool how does http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/track/foundations/ look
[17:01] <slangasek> cjohnston: LGTM, thanks
[17:01] <ogra_> fulkl of sessions !
[17:01] <ogra_> *full
[17:01] <cjohnston> slangasek: have I addressed all of your concerns (that I can take care of with less than 24 hours to go)
[17:02] <cjohnston> I don't know if I was able to keep up with everything in both channels
[17:03] <slangasek> cjohnston: I believe so, yes
[17:03] <cjohnston> cool. thanks
[17:03] <slangasek> cjohnston: if not, once I've fully unwound my stack in another hour, I'll let you know :-)
[17:03] <cjohnston> :-)
[17:03]  * cjohnston notes to leave in 55 minutes
[17:34] <lool> cjohnston: thanks for fixing foundations track!  :)
[17:34] <cjohnston> np
[18:23] <achiang> if i want to comment on a blueprint (asking a question i would like clarified), what is the convention for doing so? just edit the whiteboard directly, put my nick in [square brackets] then ask my question?
[18:24] <xnox> achiang: yes.
[18:24] <xnox> in chronological order =)
[18:24] <achiang> xnox: should i insert the question inline? or is there typically a q&a section?
[18:25] <xnox> achiang: wherever it's obvious, subscribed people will get a "diff" format of it anyway =)
[18:25] <achiang> xnox: thx
[19:02] <bryce> are the arm64 buildd's swamped?  I've been getting timeouts trying to get a PPA to build a patched xserver for a bug (https://launchpad.net/~bryce/+archive/lp982889/+packages) and wonder if I should keep trying or if it's a lost cause?
[19:03] <Andy80> hi guys
[19:03] <xnox> bryce: arm64 ?! wishful thinking =) or do you mean amd64 or armhf?
[19:04] <bryce> xnox, arg, yeah typo.  amd64
[19:04] <Andy80> I really don't want to annoy anyone, but.... despite the fact that I really apreciate that Unity is moving to Qt/QML (I told this 2 years ago and nobody listened), I really don't like how the decision was takes: 0 community involvement, just an announcement.
[19:05] <dobey> Andy80: #ubuntu-unity
[19:05] <xnox> bryce: it doesn't look that busy, i386 is chugging away in the ppas though.
[19:05] <xnox> damn, please revert.
[19:05] <xnox> bryce: https://launchpad.net/builders
[19:05] <Andy80> dobey, I don't want to be OT, don't worry... but this is not an #ubuntu-unity problem only... it's something bigger. It involves the whole Ubuntu development.
[19:07] <dobey> Andy80: then IRC surely isn't the place to discuss it. you can perhaps bring it up on ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list or something
[19:07] <Andy80> dobey, ok... sorry then.
[19:09] <bryce> xnox, thanks for the link.  yes they don't look bogged down.  Would you suggest I just keep trying?  My build log isn't really very clueful about  what went wrong.
[19:22] <ScottK> Andy80: I think Unity going to Qt/QML will have less of an impact than their decision to invent their own X windows replacement.
[19:23] <jbicha> ScottK: I wish they named their display server 'UDS' instead of 'Mir' ;)
[19:25] <Andy80> ScottK, that's not the point :) (maybe it's better if I blog my thoughts....) I 100% agree with the decision they (finally) made. But I strongly disagree with the way they did it. Community was not involved at all. That's what really hurts me.
[19:26] <ScottK> Andy80: Right.  Totally agreed.
[19:26] <ScottK> First UDS, then rolling release, now this.
[19:26] <ScottK> They have no end of surprised in store, apparently.
[19:27] <Andy80> ScottK, oh wait... it's already decided for the rolling release :D ? (I agree with this too, but I totally missed the announcement :P )
[19:27] <ScottK> That's my assumption.
[19:27] <ScottK> It certainly appears to me that the call do "discuss" it is pro forma.
[19:27] <Andy80> ok
[19:28] <Andy80> I already felt this a couple of UDS ago...
[19:28] <Andy80> but I just didn't want to be "rude" bothering with them
[19:28] <ScottK> Up until now, it was reasonably possible to avoid it if your interests didn't overlap Canonical's focus.
[19:28] <ScottK> It doesn't seem so anymore.
[19:32] <jbicha> I don't think the decision is final, but it looks unlikely to me that the ones who don't want a rolling release will be organized enough to stop the ball in motion
[19:33] <jbicha> there's still opportunity to steer the ball if you have good ideas for how to best do this
[19:33] <mlankhorst> do you think it's a good idea to have a release every 6 months then ? :S
[19:34] <ScottK> I think it comes down to "We don't care about Ubuntu governance, whatever is decide/preferred, we'll control what happens via the budget for our own needs".
[19:34] <ScottK> mlankhorst: I think it's essential.
[19:35] <jbicha> mlankhorst: I don't think we're ready to do a rolling release next month and advertise it the same way we always do non-LTS releases
[19:36] <tumbleweed> jbicha: the only sane way to think of it is as no LTS releases
[19:37] <tumbleweed> no non-LTS releases even
[19:38] <jbicha> tumbleweed: ok but what's http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop going to say? and will we mark it as just another Ubuntu release only better or will we clearly mark it for early adopters for now?
[19:40] <tumbleweed> jbicha: "download precise here"
[19:40] <jbicha> I think I'm ok with the experiment but I'm not ok with experimenting on a million people who aren't aware of the risks; once it's been proven to work than we can relax the marketing
[19:40] <Andy80> an LTS every 2 years and rolling release the rest of the time would make sense for me. But I'm not expert in this field, so it's just for my tastes...
[19:41] <tumbleweed> the development release can only really be for enthusiasts
[19:41] <jbicha> the current site lists 12.10 above 12.04 LTS and it's not at all clear that 12.04 LTS was a better choice in this case for ~90% of people
[19:42] <jtaylor> barry, cjohnston any objects to me uploading shiboken to see what happens before ff (probably tomorrow or tuesday)?
[19:42] <tumbleweed> jbicha: a development release isn't the best choice for anyone in our target market
[19:42] <jtaylor> the thing should at least be be somewhat working, which is better than not at all
[19:42] <cjohnston> broken is broken, so it cant get worse than broken
[19:43] <jbicha> tumbleweed: tell that to the website people
[19:43] <barry> shibroken?
[19:43] <jtaylor> ^^
[19:46] <zequence> Ubuntu Studio ISO failed, and I'm having problems debugging the reason. I've recently changed the seeds http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/raring/ubuntustudio-dvd/20130304/livecd-20130304-amd64.out
[19:46] <zequence> It's just about to build the depency tree after having finished with ubuntu-minimal
[19:46] <dobey> jbicha: it's best not to think of "rolling release" with the word "release"
[19:47] <dobey> jbicha: there won't be an actual "release" so much. it's just that development will continually happen and people can run from the unstable archives, and the "release" will be an LTS that happens every 2 years
[19:47] <tumbleweed> there might be snapshots, which are sort of like releases, that's the only new thing
[19:48] <zequence> I haven't understood the point with snapshots. What's the difference between a snapshot and a daily?
[19:48] <dobey> well, "copy an image to another directory on the server every 30 days"
[19:48] <dobey> but doing the snapshots seems like a waste of time to me
[19:49] <tumbleweed> the point of the snapshot is to avoid having to install mountains of updates every day
[19:49] <tumbleweed> put that off to once a month
[19:49] <zequence> If a rolling release is to be a development release, it's not really a rolling release. It's just a development release
[19:49] <tumbleweed> zequence: what's a rolling release then?
[19:49] <dobey> it's not a release
[19:49] <dobey> development or otherwise
[19:49] <dobey> it's an archive of packages, and there are automated daily image builds to install from
[19:49] <zequence> tumbleweed: One where you aren't experimenting in the standard repos
[19:50] <zequence> tumbleweed: And you don't release features until they are complete
[19:50] <tumbleweed> we don't experiment ni the standard repos
[19:50] <tumbleweed> and we don't upload things until they are ready to be used
[19:51] <tumbleweed> (but yes, I assume we'll get a little more conservative with the dev release)
[19:52] <jbicha> we're going to have a delay though between landing new stuff and that getting pushed to the early adopters right?
[19:53] <tumbleweed> no
[19:53] <jbicha> oh that's scary
[19:54] <cprofitt> question, not sure if this is the right place, will Quickly still be moving forward?
[19:54] <dobey> why? it's not any different than running a version of ubuntu before it's released right now
[19:54] <jbicha> not many people will be running the PPA where we'll have to stage big transitions
[19:55] <tumbleweed> jbicha: we already stage some toolchain changes in PPAs
[19:55] <jbicha> dobey: sure but I think this new thing will pick up quite a few more users (who were happy with the non-LTS releases or happy with upgrading at Beta, etc.)
[19:55] <tumbleweed> jbicha: right, and I'm not sure that we'll be ready for them :)
[19:56] <dobey> jbicha: those people should continue to do what they were doing then, not run the rickroll archive
[19:57] <dobey> upgrade at beta, or at the next release.
[19:57] <cprofitt> will new versions of LibreOffice, etc be pushed down to the LTS?
[19:59] <cprofitt> I am one of the people who uses the non-LTS releases and I do it to stay closer to current on my applications
[19:59] <zequence> Would it be tons of work adding another repo to the rolling release, where the repo that is currently used in the development release would be something that wasn't enabled by default (and with a different name), but which developers would enable for their work, and then a default repo for users - you'd sync packages from the developer repo to the user repo, whenever something was thoroughly smoke tested and fairly complete feature wise
[19:59] <cprofitt> if LTS is going to be 'stale' on application updates for two years that would bother me
[19:59] <dobey> cprofitt: i don't think that can be answered in this channel (or in a general sense), but is something that will be answered on a per-case basis. probably a good question for Sweetshark to weigh in on though, at least for LO. and probably worth bringing up in the UDS discussion
[20:00] <dobey> zequence: you mean like how everything gets uploaded to -proposed first, like we're already doing?
[20:00] <cprofitt> thanks dobey
[20:01] <zequence> dobey: Well, yes.
[20:01] <zequence> dobey: Only, from what I gather, -proposed is not used in this way
[20:02] <tumbleweed> things migrate from -proposed when they don't decrease installability
[20:03] <jbicha> wow, it's not as much as fun to have a flavor that people aren't recommended to use and we can't really backport new GNOME stable releases to an LTS release without breaking Unity in that PPA
[20:03] <dobey> well, there was also talk of requiring that autopkgtests don't fail, before copying over, no? that would basically implement the "smoke tests" bit
[20:04] <tumbleweed> dobey: sure, but the longer we hold things out of the release pocket, the nastier disentangling the mess gets
[20:04] <dobey> certainly
[20:05] <micahg> cprofitt: anyone can request a libreoffice backport to an LTS if they do the testing and it builds
[20:06] <tumbleweed> has there ever been one before?
[20:06] <dobey> backports and updates are quite different though
[20:06] <micahg> sure, but I see libreoffice as the type of thing that you don't have to update, but can backport
[20:07] <micahg> some people don't want their office suite changing out from under them ;)
[20:07] <tumbleweed> jbicha: I hope some of the flavours can have a UDS session to talk about these issues. It sounds like you have the same problems as kubuntu
[20:08] <jbicha> micahg: bug 888665 is still the annoying blocker for a lot of backports :(
[20:09] <micahg> jbicha: infinity promised to fix eventually
[20:10] <jbicha> tumbleweed: I didn't think we had too much of a problem with the rolling idea but I thought we'd have more of a buffer between the system used by users who like the latest stuff and the system where the developers are doing their work :(
[20:11] <jbicha> those are 2 separate audiences and we're making things more unpleasant for both sets
[20:11] <tumbleweed> jbicha: you saw https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1303-monthly-snapshots ?
[20:18] <jbicha> something like that was more what I understood; I think doing a ~monthly release cycle is critical to having people actually use the thing
[20:19] <jbicha> and we should have a deadline each month for major features so that testers, translators and documenters have time to do their thing before it gets pushed out to the perpetual beta users
[20:19] <slangasek> jbicha: the proposal is not *at all* about doing a monthly release cycle
[20:20] <slangasek> the goal of moving to a rolling release is to reduce the release overhead.  Reimplementing the release cycle for monthlies has the exact opposite effect.
[20:21] <jbicha> there are conflicting proposals and I think recognizing a daily and monthly audience has merit
[20:23] <jbicha> I know I would rather land the huge new GNOME update at the beginning of the month to give us more time to ensure that we found all the big issues during the PPA staging time
[20:24] <jbicha> is there a successful software project that doesn't have a feature freeze?
[20:28] <slangasek> jbicha: you're missing the point.  A feature freeze precedes a release; the monthly snapshots are not going to be releases.  There is no way we're investing those kinds of resources into a monthly process.
[20:28] <seb128> jbicha, the new GNOME update shouldn't land "at the beginning of the month", they should land after GNOME stable .2 when they got testing and are somewhat stable
[20:31] <slangasek> jbicha: if you think that a monthly snapshot without the release process you describe is not useful, I encourage you to make that case; but there's just no way, given the thesis statement of "we want to do away with 6-month releases and move to a rolling release because the 6-month releases aren't benefitting us" that we would turn around and implement a once-a-month release process
[20:49] <achiang> can someone clue me in here? once qt5 gets a Mir backend (and assuming Kwin gets ported to Qt5), what more work would there be left to do in Kubuntu (at least specifically to support Mir)?
[20:53] <slangasek> achiang: a window manager / shell is deeply tied to the X protocol
[20:54] <achiang> slangasek: ah, so you're saying what i don't know about that piece of plumbing can just about fit into the grand canyon. ;)
[20:54] <achiang> slangasek: ok, that makes a lot of sense, thanks
[20:59] <kees> mdz: TB meeting soon
[20:59] <mdz> yep
[21:03] <yofel> achiang: we'll talk to martin graesslin when he shows up about that (kwin developer)
[21:04] <achiang> nod
[21:16] <superm1> yofel: so for something like xfce's window manager there needs to be a mir backend added for the underlying toolkit first (say GTK) and then additional work on top of that on the window manager itself?
[21:17] <yofel> I'm the wrong person to ask that, but it is like that usually
[21:33] <ScottK> achiang: I think the chances of kwin being ported to Mir are very, very low anytime soon.  It looks like ~everything not Unity will be a second class citizen in Ubuntu in a year.
[21:34] <ScottK> Xfce and Lxde even more so, since at least Canonical is doing work on Qt5.
[21:44] <RAOF> ScottK: You'll ~always have an X server available to you, even if we shove a Mir compositor underneath it; exactly as the previous system-compositor spec.
[21:45] <ScottK> I may be a bit lost in terminology here.
[21:45] <ScottK> Isn't the layer like compiz/kwin the compositor?
[21:46] <ScottK> So I'm not sure I understand what that means.
[21:47] <RAOF> Before Mir came along (or, at least, before we knew about it), we were going to do a wayland system compositor, with X nested inside it. So all your X servers talk to the system compositor, and it does the final display bit.
[21:48] <RAOF> The same thing will apply here - you'll ~always be able to start an X server on the system compositor, it'll run nested, and KWin won't be any the wiser.
[21:48] <ScottK> OK.
[21:48] <sarnold> "~always" :)
[21:48] <RAOF> This is something that we'll have to support for a good long while, too, since we can't magically port everything anyone wants to Mir.
[21:48] <ScottK> sarnold: Yes.  Preciselye.
[21:48] <ScottK> s/e//
[21:49] <sarnold> of course people have wanted to kill off X for as long as I've been using it
[21:49] <RAOF> sarnold: Heh, yes. I obviously can't commit to how long we'll be supporting X, but I don't see us dropping it in the next, say, decade.
[21:49] <sarnold> I'm not entirely sure how to feel here... I don't want to say goodbye to old friends like urxvt... and yet, X does have a raft-load of problems :)
[21:50] <sarnold> RAOF: man, no one _ever_ has good stock tips for the year 2023...
[21:50] <ScottK> RAOF: Well before today, I'd have rated the chances of Canonical thinking it was a good idea to write their own X windows replacement from scratch as low too.
[21:51] <superm1> RAOF: so basically these new fangled apps will connect directly to the system compositor and old X apps will connect to the nested X server?  Will it be noticable to the user that they're running X apps in a container theN?
[21:52] <RAOF> superm1: No, new fangled apps will connect to the Unity session compositor (which will connect to the system compositor), X apps running in a Unity session will connect to a rootless nested X server started by the Unity shell, and non-Mir *sessions* will start a full nested X server.
[21:53] <RAOF> superm1: Users shouldn't be able to tell that they're running X apps under Unity, and users shouldn't be able to tell that KWin's running in an X server under Mir.
[21:53] <RAOF> It'll be not dissimilar to how X apps work in OSX currently - they also do a nested rootless X server.
[21:54] <superm1> ah i see
[21:55] <mdeslaur> ScottK: what makes you think other distros won't be using Mir?
[21:55] <superm1> but if you are talking about something legacy that doesn't necssarily operate act as a session compositor, say metacity or xfce-window-manager, is that where you run into troubles then?
[21:56] <ScottK> mdeslaur: The approximately zero percent success Canonical has had convincing other distros that things like Unity are the way to go.
[21:56] <ScottK> I expect the trend to continue.
[21:57] <ScottK> If you go off and develop something in a vacuum and suggest that everyone should just eat it whole, rather than engage with the community, no one is going to listen.
[21:57] <ScottK> https://plus.google.com/115606635748721265446/posts/93zY4qfpq2X <- Kwin maintainer, fwiw.
[21:57] <dobey> ScottK: yet it's ok for people in other communities to do that. irony. :)
[21:58] <ScottK> dobey: Not a all.
[21:58] <RAOF> superm1: Well, you can't run metacity or xfce-window-manager in a Unity session. But you can still have an XFCE session - it'll just spawn a full X server, and everything will work as it does now.
[21:59] <dobey> ScottK: many of the things we use in userspace are something someone wrote in a vacuum, and then said "here, i think it's cool, maybe you want to use it"
[21:59] <dobey> heck, the linux kernel started that way. linus wrote something, and then people started contributing
[21:59] <ScottK> dobey: Sure, but not so much for huge pieces of infrastructure.
[21:59] <ScottK> two decades ago things were a bit different.
[21:59] <mdeslaur> ScottK: that's how all open source software is written...somebody bangs on something until it gets to 0.1 and is worth showing, and then releases it...
[21:59] <dobey> pulseaudio? gstreamer?
[21:59] <superm1> RAOF: oh so then it really *shouldn't* be a big deal for flavours that aren't updated to mir immediately then.  it will be more convenient and efficient when they do, but they'll get along fine for now
[22:00] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[22:00] <dobey> systemd?
[22:00] <sarnold> gnome3? :)
[22:00] <rickspencer3> I'm not sure that debating how right/wrong it is to write software in different ways is totally relevant
[22:00] <rickspencer3> I'm wondering more if the issue at hand is ensuring that Kubuntu doesn't inadvertnatly get locked out in the cold
[22:01] <ScottK> It seems like for this particular issue, the concern is more long term, but it's real.
[22:01] <dobey> i don't think kubuntu is getting locked out in the cold, per RAOF and tedg's comments
[22:01] <dobey> it seems more like xubuntu, lubuntu, etc… might more so in the future
[22:01] <rickspencer3> dobey, I think it's a legitimate concern
[22:01] <RAOF> superm1: Absolutely. Everyone can basically ignore Mir unless they want to write a display-server-compositor.
[22:01] <rickspencer3> fair enough, I think it's a concern for all the flavors
[22:01] <rickspencer3> and I think we shouldn't let it happen
[22:01] <ScottK> RAOF: Until there's a bug in Mir.
[22:02] <dobey> rickspencer3: certainly. wasn't saying it wasn't a legitimate concern.
[22:02] <rickspencer3> the point of Mir is certainly not to keep other DEs from working on Ubuntu
[22:02] <rickspencer3> that would be a *hideous* outcome
[22:02] <ScottK> Then you've got the fact that you're running emulation instead of a standard X windows and it makes it hard to know where problems are.
[22:02] <RAOF> You're not running an emulation.
[22:02] <tedg> ScottK, It's not really emulation, it's a driver for standard xorg.
[22:03] <RAOF> You're running an X server.
[22:03] <ScottK> OK.
[22:03] <RAOF> An X server, using the same drivers, that just happens to not handle the framebuffer.
[22:03] <ScottK> What handles the framebuffer then?
[22:03] <tedg> ScottK, And yes, there'll be bugs, but it'll effect a large number of folks besides other DEs.  Any X11 app really.
[22:03] <RAOF> Mir handles the framebuffer.
[22:03] <RAOF> (The Mir system compositor)
[22:04] <ScottK> And we're back to where I get confused then.
[22:04] <tedg> There's two Mir's.  A root system compositor Mir and a user session Mir.
[22:04] <ScottK> I thought Compiz/Kwin were the compositor?
[22:04] <tedg> (in the Unity case)
[22:04] <RAOF> I'm pretty sure we've got a diagram of this somewhere. Let me dig it up :)
[22:04] <tedg> ScottK, System compositor vs. user compositor.
[22:04] <ScottK> So then how does this Mir system compositor interact with the regular one?
[22:04] <tedg> ScottK, The system compositor allows effects when doing things like faster user switching.
[22:05] <ScottK> tedg: But we don't today have a system compositor, right?
[22:05] <tedg> It's basically a tree
[22:05] <tedg> No, we don't today.
[22:05] <tedg> (well, there are packages to do it with weston, but I don't think it is widely done)
[22:05] <ScottK> So something like Compiz/Kwin will have to overlay this somehow?
[22:05] <RAOF> Only the X server needs to know about the system compositor.
[22:05] <tedg> No, it'll be transparent to them.
[22:06] <tedg> Hmm, visibility descriptions probably aren't good when discussing graphics...
[22:06] <tedg> They don't need to do anything special.
[22:06]  * ScottK has found "It'll be a transparent change" to be one of the great lies of system development, but maybe this time.
[22:06] <RAOF> ScottK: You can run this right now, if you want - it's in a PPA (for Intel and ATI)
[22:07] <RAOF> Hah. Or, it *will* be, once we've finished copying everything over from the private PPA. It will be in https://launchpad.net/~mir-team/+archive/staging/+packages
[22:07] <tedg> ScottK, It will, most surly, have bumps over the next year.  But after that it should be relatively straight forward.
[22:07] <tedg> surely...
[22:08] <jcastro> RAOF: so how does the PPA work, just add it, install it ... profit?
[22:08] <ScottK> RAOF: This stuff would get a better reception if it didn't all get developed in secret first.
[22:09] <RAOF> ScottK: Not my call :/
[22:09] <ScottK> It's not just me.  Here's Martin Gräßlin's initial reaction: https://plus.google.com/115606635748721265446/posts/93zY4qfpq2X
[22:09] <ScottK> RAOF: I know.  Just saying.
[22:09] <robert_ancell> ScottK, think of the current system compositor as VT switching - we're replacing that with a real compositor that can do effects
[22:10] <ScottK> Are my VTs still going to work?
[22:10] <RAOF> Maybe.
[22:10] <RAOF> At the moment, yes.
[22:10] <robert_ancell> ScottK, not for switching between user sessions - all the graphics will be on one VT
[22:10] <dobey> i highly doubt having said "hey, we're going to write a compositing system to replace X with on Ubuntu" prior to having developed any actual code would have illicited any different reactions.
[22:10] <robert_ancell> but text consoles will remain for now
[22:10] <RAOF> We'd *like* to replace them with something a bit better. But still replace them.
[22:11] <ScottK> dobey: Sure.  Actually talking to outsiders and trying to work with them might have.
[22:16] <mdeslaur> ScottK: Mir should be quite exciting for kde, as it is compatible with android drivers AIUI, so it can be used to get kde plasma on the wide range of android hardware currently on the market
[22:17] <ScottK> Plasma Active already targets a similar hardware segment.
[22:17] <mdeslaur> ScottK: with what drivers?
[22:17] <ScottK> I'm not sure exactly where the overlap would hit.
[22:17] <ScottK> Not sure.
[22:18] <ScottK> I don't think it'll be exciting for KDE if it's Ubuntu only.
[22:20] <Niedar> I think this is the reaction that would have happened regardless of if this was done in private or not I dont think you will convince people ahead of time until there is a real result and then we will find out if it was a good idea or not
[22:23] <jcastro> RAOF: so since you didn't respond I assume I shouldn't try the PPA when builds come up? :)
[22:23] <jcastro> or will they melt my display or something
[22:23] <RAOF> jcastro: Ah, sorry. They won't melt your displays.
[22:23] <RAOF> jcastro: *probably* ☺
[22:24] <RAOF> jcastro: We have a canonical wiki page on how to set it up; basically you should only need to add a “type=mir” line to /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[22:24] <jcastro> cool, is someone working to put that stuff on the ubuntu wiki?
[22:25] <RAOF> Not as far as I'm aware.
[23:56] <celso> people, i have some doubts in my vgaswitcheroo setup. can sommeone help me?