[12:21] <kiko> cprov-afk, replied.
[12:22] <kiko> jamesh, do you understand what happens when you commit locally in a non-lightweight checkout?
[12:22] <kiko> jamesh, how do you get that commit into your repository branch?
[12:23] <jamesh> kiko: if it is a heavyweight checkout, the commit will be made both locally and remotely
[12:23] <jamesh> unless you do "bzr commit --local"
[12:23] <kiko> jamesh, and if you do --local
[12:23] <kiko> how does it get moved up?
[12:24] <jamesh> kiko: I haven't looked at the code, but I believe it is essentially (1) check that local branch is up to date, (2) try to commit to local branch, (3) push that commit to remote branch
[12:24] <jamesh> if (3) fails, the change gets rolled back locally
[12:25] <jamesh> kiko: if you pass --local, (3) gets skipped
[12:25] <kiko> jamesh, okay. but now your checkout and the repo are out of sync. how do they sync up?
[12:25] <jamesh> you do a commit without --local
[12:25] <kiko> ah. and then it pushes all pending commits?
[12:26] <jamesh> yeah
[12:27] <jamesh> I think "bzr update" might also send pending local commits
[12:27] <jamesh> lifeless said that if your local commits form a divergance from the remote branch, "bzr update" will do a merge
[12:28] <kiko> I see. interesting
[12:28] <jamesh> good for shared branches where other people might be committing
[12:29] <kiko> yeah
[12:31] <jamesh> the current workflow I use is to have a copy of my repo locally, and rsync the entire repo to sodium when I want to publish changes I've made
[12:31] <jamesh> I then use lightweight checkouts of the local repo, so that commits go directly into the repo
[12:32] <kiko> jamesh, you use rsync instead of push? why?
[12:33] <jamesh> kiko: I push all my branches in one go
[12:33] <kiko> is there an advantage to that, though..?
[12:34] <jamesh> I was using this workflow when I switched to a repo back when we were using weave branches still
[12:34] <jamesh> back then it was definitely a win over sftp push
[12:34] <jamesh> it might not be as much now
[12:53] <kiko> spiv, ping?
[12:57] <sladen> bradb: tags!!!!
[01:19] <lifeless> sabdfl: http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/lp-depends/ if you need the lp-deps, until Etienne publishes his ones
[02:48] <Solarion> Is there a problem with bug submission?  I get "Please fix the problems listed below" without any problems listed below!
[02:50] <kiko> Solarion, hmmm. can you tell me exactly what you are doing?
[02:51] <Solarion> I'm trying to submit a bug to ubuntu, url https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
[02:51] <Solarion> I had javascript disabled initially, which may have caused the trouble.
[02:52] <kiko> Solarion, there is no JS requirement in that form. so tell me what you are doing
[02:52] <kiko> did you add a sumary or description?
[02:53] <kiko> ah
[02:53] <kiko> it doesn't say they are required.
[02:53] <Solarion> it reported having blocked JS
[02:53] <Solarion> [it being NoScript]
[02:53] <Solarion> I have a package selected, and a summary, and Further Information
[02:53] <kiko> well, the only JS there is used to render the menus AFAICS.
[02:53] <Solarion> ah
[02:53] <kiko> Solarion, which package?
[02:53] <Solarion> Inkscape
[02:53] <kiko> how did you select it?
[02:53] <Solarion> typed it in
[02:54] <Solarion> a drop-down list popped up next to it after (failed) submission
[02:54] <kiko> ah.
[02:54] <Solarion> ah-ha
[02:54] <kiko> that's a known bug
[02:54] <kiko> click on the list, select an item from it (even if it is a single-item list) and try submitting again.
[02:54] <Solarion> I had typed "Inkscape" and the drop-down list had "inkscape" and somehow things were unhappy
[02:54] <Solarion> typing "inkscape" worked
[02:55] <Solarion> however, there should be some text to say that was what failed.  :)
[02:55] <kiko> yeah
[02:58] <Solarion> ah well.  works now.
[03:00] <kiko> cool
[05:00] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[05:03] <jsgotangco> hey
[05:12] <mpt> SteveA, pong
[05:19] <mpt> spiv, ping
[05:20] <spiv> mpt: pong
[05:22] <mpt> spiv, I spent 40 minutes last night trying to work out how to make "ssh sodium" work, including reading the man page
[05:22] <spiv> mpt: ouch
[05:23] <mpt> Can you put me out of my misery? :-)
[05:23] <mpt> https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/filebailL8.html
[05:23] <spiv> mpt: pastebin your ~/.ssh/config?
[05:23] <spiv> Heh.
[05:23] <mpt> The last section doesn't make any difference, either to chinstrap's workiness or sodium's non-workiness
[05:23] <spiv> mpt: As I said yesterday, you need to duplicate the contents of your *.ubuntu.com section in your sodium section.
[05:24] <spiv> mpt: You don't need it for chinstrap, because chinstrap is the only system directly accessible from outside.
[05:24] <spiv> mpt: (hence the ProxyCommand)
[05:24] <mpt> by "duplicate in" do you mean "add to", or "use to replace"?
[05:24] <spiv> "add to"
[05:25] <spiv> Specifically, you need the ProxyCommand in the "Host sodium" section.
[05:25] <mpt> That was one of the things I tried, and I got some error about stdin not being a terminal
[05:25] <mpt> one moment
[05:25] <mpt> huh!
[05:26] <mpt> it works
[05:26] <mpt> thank you :-)
[05:27] <spiv> mpt: https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/file8khb9Y.html is the relevant bits of mine, if you want to compare
[05:27] <spiv> You're welcome :)
[05:29] <spiv> mpt: heh :)
[05:30] <stub> mpt: You can make that 'Host chinstrap chintrap.ubuntu.com\nHostName chinstrap.ubuntu.com'
[05:30] <stub> mpt: So you won't need the domain name
[05:37] <mpt> (look out, it's a chintrap!)
[05:39] <spiv> stub: haha
[05:42] <spiv> stub: I look forward to reviewing code where you have "aththert" and "clathth" statements ;)
[05:47] <mpt> thuffering thuckertaththh
[06:26] <stub> lifeless: I'm not clear what LoomEntry.name is supposed to be.
[06:26] <stub> lifeless: oic. don't worry.
[06:48] <stub> lifeless: So how are we going to access LoomEntrys ? Will we need to retrieve all looms for a given revision in order of sequence? Do we need to look them up by name?
[07:14] <lifeless> stub: thanks
[07:14] <lifeless> privmsg..
[07:50] <mpt> bother
[07:50] <mpt> PQM seems to think my branch is still on chinstrap for some reason
[07:51] <spiv> mpt: If you do a "bzr push --remember sftp://sodium.ubuntu.com/...", the location info in your branch will be updated.
[07:52] <mpt> spiv, that's what I did
[07:52] <mpt> and it updated .bzr/branch/parent
[07:52] <spiv> mpt: What are you using to generate PQM requests?
[07:52] <mpt> but not .bzr/x-push-data
[07:52] <spiv> Hmm.
[07:52] <mpt> So I've updated that manually, but I feel dirty for doing so
[07:53] <mpt> and my submit script has MYURL=$(cat .bzr/x-push-data | sed -e 's|^\(.*\):/|sftp://\1/|g')
[07:55] <spiv> x-push-data isn't the right thing to read.
[07:56] <spiv> It's not a bzr thing; that's left by bzrtools' rspush command only afaict.
[07:56] <spiv> The correct place is in your ~/.bazaar/branches.conf
[07:57] <spiv> I guess the right thing to do is use the pqm-submit plugin, rather than your submit script, but I haven't got any experience with that yet.
[07:57] <mpt> branches.conf refers to sodium for this branch
[07:58] <mpt> but maybe that's because I did another push after updating x-push-data?
[07:59] <spiv> branches.conf should have been updated when you did the "bzr push --remember".
[08:00] <mpt> oh, right
[08:00] <mpt> so it's just the submit script that's wrong
[08:00] <spiv> Right.
[08:00] <spiv> Because nothing should be using x-push-data anymore.
[08:01] <mpt> And because branches.conf has multiple lines per branch, that's not an awk-able problem
[08:02] <spiv> Hmm, I think it probably is gawk-able, but it would be dirty.  The right answer is to stop using shell hacks, and to use the proper pqm-submit plugin.
[08:04] <spiv> mpt: https://launchpad.canonical.com/WorkingWithSharedRepositories has a section on WorkingWithSharedRepositories
[08:07] <spiv> mpt: Er, a section on "Sending Merge Requests to PQM", rather.
[08:08] <mpt> Yes, that's what I guessed you meant :-)
[08:08] <mpt> thanks
[08:08] <spiv> mpt: I'm glad your telepathy is workiing :)
[10:15] <einheit_> good morning
[10:20] <jamesh> lifeless: rocketfuel-built on sodium.u.c does not seem to be updating.
[10:41] <lifeless> jamesh: thanks, fixed
[10:41] <lifeless> jamesh: or not
[10:41] <lifeless> its in cron
[10:41] <lifeless> elmo: is cron workin on sodium?
[10:43] <lifeless> elmo: ah. Can you please install baz on sodium? Its used by a library that probes for tree types. I'll fix the script to be happy without it.
[10:43] <lifeless> but for now ...
[10:44] <jamesh> lifeless: the pending-reviews page is updating, so cron must be working
[10:44] <lifeless> ok, going home from mpools, when baz is installed it will start updating
[10:52] <SteveA> Znarl: ping
[11:14] <SteveA> jamesh, lifeless: james t. has installed baz on sodium.
[11:15] <jamesh> SteveA: cool.  We should see if rocketfuel-
[11:15] <jamesh> built is updating in a little while then
[11:19] <mpt> Where do I get urlutils from? It doesn't seem to be mentioned in any Ubuntu package description
[11:20] <sabdfl> mpt: pqm-submit failing for you?
[11:20] <mpt> yes
[11:21] <sabdfl> i had that too - apparently the trick is to revert the pqm-submit plugin to revision 11
[11:21] <mpt> My first time using it
[11:21] <sabdfl> but i'm not sure how one does that
[11:21] <mpt> heh
[11:26] <mpt> sabdfl, cd ~/.bazaar/plugins/pqm-submit; bzr revert -r 11
[11:27] <mpt> oh, hooray for hiding the bounty tracker
[11:33] <sabdfl> mpt: bzr revert does not seem to actually make the revisions disappear
[11:36] <mpt> sabdfl, true, bzr revno gave me the same after as before, but bzr pqm-submit worked after where it didn't before
[11:54] <sivang> morning
[11:56] <mpt> I broke PQM :-(
[11:56] <mpt> Spads?
[11:57] <Spads> mpt: tell me a story.
[11:58] <mpt> Spads, once upon a time there was PQM status served at http://pqm.launchpad.net/
[11:58] <mpt> About five minutes ago, it changed to a directory listing
[11:58] <mpt> and now, it won't respond at all
[11:59] <Spads> Aha
[11:59] <Spads> so what were you doing at the time?
[11:59] <mpt> clicking Reload
[11:59] <Spads> haha
[11:59] <Spads> aha, I see
[11:59] <Spads> let me look at that
[11:59] <mpt> thankew
[12:00] <jamesh> Spads: it is supposed to proxy to another machine running a PQM status page
[12:00] <Spads> ah, I believe I know what this is
[12:01] <Spads> We are doing some recovery work, and had to take down the machine that is doing the proxying.  We have a temporary system in place, but the downtime is unavoidable, I'm afraid.
[12:01] <elmo> we can fix that
[12:02] <Spads> We have the technology.
[12:05] <SteveA> launchpad developers: see my message to the launchpad mailing list about how to get access to your branches and other data that was on chinstrap.
[12:05] <sabdfl> Spads: is pqm continuing to do what it was doing, just the display is borked?
[12:05] <sabdfl> i had a landing in the queue too
[12:06] <SteveA> pqm should be fine
[12:06] <SteveA> except for its web UI
[12:06] <sabdfl> i'll wait for the failure message, then
[12:07] <elmo> pqm web UI is back
[12:10] <mpt> thanks elmo
[12:16] <sabdfl> SteveA: think we can get edge.launchpad.net / crack.launchpad.net / beta.launchpad.net up and running for 1.0?
[12:16] <ddaa> lifeless: is that a bug in the pqm display that it thinks that merge request for branches on sodium are for "other projects", or does that mean that I got my merge request wrong?
[12:17] <SteveA> sabdfl: depends what else is on stuart's plate.  I'll talk with stub.
[12:19] <ddaa> I mean on pqm.launchpad.net
[12:20] <mpt><EMAIL_ADDRESS>is not permitted to commit to /home/pqm/archives/thelove/bzr/+trunk'
[12:20] <ddaa> and it's actually my merge request was wrong
[12:20] <mpt> ugh
[12:21] <jamesh> mpt: if you do "bzr pqm-submit --dry-run -m message", you can see what the email would look like
[12:21] <jamesh> it will print the submission request to the terminal rather than sending it, so you can see if it looks wrong
[12:21] <SteveA> right... that's the hardcoded default for the pqm-submit plugin
[12:22] <SteveA> you need to update the text in your ~/.bazaar/branches.conf
[12:22] <SteveA> I'd like branches.conf to work differently
[12:22] <SteveA> so that you can give a "root path" location
[12:22] <mpt> I did that
[12:22] <SteveA> and specify the pqm for all things below that
[12:22] <mpt> following the text in WorkingWithSharedRepositories
[12:23] <jamesh> mpt: is there a section in ~/.bazaar/branches.conf for your branch as well?
[12:24] <mpt> yes
[12:24] <jamesh> mpt: if you have sections for $REPOSITORY and $REPOSITORY/$BRANCH in your branches.conf file, bzr will ignore the settings in the [$REPOSITORY]  section
[12:24] <mpt> I was wondering that
[12:24] <jamesh> which is a pain, since some commands will automatically create the [$REPOSITORY/$BRANCH]  section
[12:24] <mpt> Should I remove all the branch-specific parts from the file?
[12:24] <mpt> (since they're all Launchpad branches)
[12:25] <jamesh> you can either do that or copy the settings from the repository section to each of the relevant branch sections.
[12:26] <mpt> With the former, I get a "Not a branch" error
[12:26] <mpt> so I'll try the latter
[12:28] <mpt> ... and so does the latter
[12:31] <mpt> ah, pqm_branch = push_location
[12:32] <mpt> hmm, no, pqm thinks that's a non-pqm-managed branch
[12:35] <mpt> hooray
[12:42] <SteveA> hi stub
[12:43] <stub> Morning
[12:58] <sabdfl> hey stub, how's progress on CanonicalPillarNames?
[12:59] <stub> sabdfl: Up for review
[12:59] <sabdfl> that's awesome, thanks for getting it nailed
[01:00] <SteveA> stub: jamesh is sorting out the final touches on the python demo server
[01:00] <SteveA> there are some questions about how to set up the incoming email
[01:00] <stub> Nothing in my mailbox. jamesh - wassup?
[01:01] <sabdfl> stub: will you brief brad, bjorn, others on places where it can be used to simplify things?
[01:01] <sabdfl> for example, malone email interface
[01:01] <stub> sabdfl: Ok. I'll add an agenda item to this weeks Launchpad meeting
[01:01] <SteveA> brad won't be there
[01:01] <jamesh> stub: I haven't yet set up the cron jobs for incomming email handling or the outgoing bug mail handler.  I have the details for the POP email box now
[01:02] <SteveA> nor will bjorn
[01:02] <SteveA> so, this week's launchpad meeting isn't a great venue for that
[01:02] <jamesh> I just need to know how the cron jobs should be set up, and where to put the POP3 configuration
[01:02] <stub> Hmm... ok.
[01:02] <SteveA> mail to launchpad list may be better
[01:02] <jamesh> perhaps we can just adapt what's being used in production/
[01:02] <jamesh> ?
[01:02] <SteveA> followed up by a note for next week's lp meeting
[01:03] <stub> jamesh: Yes. Just looking there to refresh my memory ;)
[01:19] <carlos> stub: hi, do you have sometime to talk about my migrate-translations branch?
[01:20] <stub> carlos: sure
[01:20] <carlos> stub: we got it done, but we are trying to optimize it a bit (it took 6 hours to migrate translations from breezy to dapper)
[01:20] <carlos> stub: ok, thanks
[01:20] <carlos> stub: danilos suggested to use a temporary table to store all information so we don't need to do similar queries 4-5 times
[01:20] <carlos> like we do with current code
[01:21] <carlos> I we would like to know your opinion about that
[01:21] <stub> Makes sense. Temporary table, or even a real one.
[01:21] <danilos> stub: they were all nested selects
[01:21] <carlos> stub: this is the current diff (without the optimizations)
[01:21] <carlos> stub: https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/carlos/launchpad/migrate-translations/full-diff
[01:22] <stub> Sure. It is a standard optimization technique. You probably need to create indexes on the temp table to speed up its subsequent usage.
[01:22] <carlos> stub: yeah, we were wondering whether we can create indexes there
[01:22] <carlos> stub: could we just use the usual syntax to do that?
[01:23] <stub> yes
[01:23] <danilos> stub: btw, if our temporary tables ends up being like 3M rows, doing inserts directly from that won't be too slow?
[01:24] <stub> danilos: I don't follow you sorry.
[01:25] <danilos> stub: well, we want to do something like "insert into something (blah, blah) from select (foo, bar) from temporary_table;"
[01:25] <stub> temporary tables being 3M rows long isn't a problem. Inserts using that as source data won't be slow if you are doing a bulk insert (iNSERT INTO FOO (bar,baz) SELECT bing, bong FROM temp_table), or one-at-a-time inserts provided you have created a suitable index.
[01:25] <danilos> stub: ah, ok, great, that's exactly what I was wondering
[01:25] <stub> It would be one of the faster ways of inserting 3 million rows
[01:27] <carlos> stub: ok, thank you very much
[01:27] <danilos> stub: thanks for the help ;)
[01:28] <stub> danilos: You probably won't want to insert all 3 million rows at once though, as that would lock the destination tables for an unacceptable amount of time. So you might need to do the insert in batches, using an ID column (INSERT INTO something(blah, blah) FROM select foo, bar from temp_table where id BETWEEN 1000 AND 2000;
[01:29] <stub> carlos: That script should probably be run in READ_COMMITTED isolation level. (just add isolation=READ_COMMITTED as a parameter to initZopeless. READ_COMMITTED can be imported from canonical.database.sqlbase)
[01:30] <carlos> stub: what does it ?
[01:32] <stub> carlos: It means your migration script won't die with a serialization exception half way through. file:///usr/share/doc/postgresql-doc-8.1/html/transaction-iso.html for the theory
[01:32] <danilos> stub: we won't be inserting 3m rows, this is just the data we will be using, extrapolated somewhat with outer joins (we need it all for some checks)
[01:32] <carlos> stub: ok, thanks
[01:32] <stub> carlos: Oh... add 'import _pythonpath' to the top of your script so I don't have to.
[01:32] <carlos> ok
[01:33] <carlos> stub: what's the reason begin that if we are not using _pythonpath ?
[01:33] <stub> carlos: If you don't add it, I have to when running it on production so script can find the modules it needs to import.
[01:34] <carlos> oh, I see
[01:34] <stub> (because it is easier than arsing about setting environment variables)
[01:34] <carlos> so we are actually using it ;-)
[01:34] <carlos> ok
[01:34] <carlos> I was not sure about its utility
[01:36] <SteveA> sivang: ping
[01:37] <sivang> SteveA: pong
[01:54] <lifeless> ddaa: your target url should be sodium.ubuntu.com
[01:54] <lifeless> ddaa: thats what in the config.
[01:54] <ddaa> lifeless: the problem was different
[01:55] <ddaa> specifically, I updated pqm-submit, and the pqm_branch option is now a user option instead of a branch option
[01:55] <lifeless> ddaa: er, its always been both
[01:55] <ddaa> mh?
[01:55] <jamesh> lifeless: rocketfuel-built still seems out of date, and baz is installed now
[01:56] <ddaa> so it fell back to the bzr-dev default
[01:56] <ddaa> anyhow, I got it "working"
[01:56] <ddaa> I have limited time to investigate that sort of issue
[01:56] <ddaa> this "default" for the pqm branch seems like a bad idea to me
[01:56] <lifeless> sftp sodium.ubuntu.com fails on sodium
[01:56] <lifeless> which is whack
[01:57] <elmo> lifeless: eh
[01:58] <elmo> oh, I know why
[01:58] <elmo> lifeless: should work now
[01:58] <lifeless> ok, rf-built should update preoplery now
[01:58] <lifeless> spelling good I am at
[02:00] <lifeless> jamesh: 3828 correct?
[02:00] <sabdfl> (12:58:44) sabdfl: hmm... Product permissions are a bit of a mess
[02:00] <sabdfl> (12:58:54) sabdfl: it seems Rosetta admins have launchpad.Admin on all products
[02:00] <sabdfl> (12:59:15) sabdfl: and Product.owner (plus lpadmins) is the only person with launchpad.Edit
[02:00] <sabdfl> (12:59:35) sabdfl: and now matsubara has allowed Product.owner to be edit by anybody with Product.owner
[02:00] <sabdfl> (12:59:53) SteveA: this is a #launchpad discussion, not a #bzr one
[02:00] <sabdfl> (12:59:54) sabdfl: how does the transfer-of-ownership protocol work?
[02:01] <jamesh> lifeless: looks better now.  Thanks
[02:02] <lifeless> np
[02:02] <SteveA> carlos and danilo are discussing some database stuff right now.  matsubara and salgado will be around in an hour or so.
[02:03] <salgado> we're here already
[02:03] <jamesh> sabdfl: previously product owners had launchpad.Admin on their products, so they could transfer ownership
[02:03] <SteveA> oh, hi salgado... early riser!
[02:05] <jamesh> sabdfl: the security adapter for IProduct/launchpad.Admin has a comment pointing to https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/753 above it
[02:06] <sabdfl> jamesh: do we want Foo.owner to have launchpad.Admin on the foo, as a rule?
[02:09] <jamesh> sabdfl: there are some cases where we use launchpad.Admin to give owners more rights (where other people might have launchpad.Edit permissions)
[02:09] <jamesh> sabdfl: and other areas where launchpad.Admin is used to restrict access to administrators (LP admins, rosetta admins or some other team)
[02:10] <jamesh> it'd probably be good to use different permission names for these two cases
[02:11] <sabdfl> jamesh: agreed. i think we need to take time to talk about the permission system for LP generally
[02:13] <SteveA> sabdfl: I have a bunch of changes to this pending coding, based on what we've discussed over the past several months
[02:14] <SteveA> these are incremental changes, because it is a big risk to pull everything out and replace it all at once
[02:14] <SteveA> this is something we should talk through at the infrastructure sprint in a couple of weeks
[02:17] <sabdfl> agreed
[03:02] <SteveA> the london sprinters go to lunch
[03:04] <danilos> me go to lunch, me go to lunch, me go to lunch ;)
[03:13] <elmo> jamesh: thanks - that RT ticket just made my day
[03:14] <matsubara> stub: apparently there's something wrong with dilys@muse. Should I remove all reference to it from lp code?
[03:39] <stub> matsubara: It is hard coded? Sure.
[04:09] <jamesh> matsubara: are the error reports you're seeing coming from carbon.ubuntu.com?
[04:10] <matsubara> jamesh: yes
[04:10] <jamesh> matsubara: there are some problems with how the outgoing email cron job interacts with the mail whitelist we've got in place (i.e. it doesn't handle the rejection), and dilys is just the first address it tries
[04:11] <jamesh> it isn't on the whitelist
[04:13] <carlos> I need to so another code update on staging, is there anyone using it atm ?
[04:13] <carlos> it will take 5-10 minutes
[04:14] <carlos> s/so/do/
[04:15] <matsubara> jamesh: I see, but stub suggested that I should remove dilys@ from lp code anyway. Nobody's using "her" AFAICT
[04:15] <carlos> no complains?
[04:15] <carlos> 5
[04:15] <carlos> 4
[04:15] <carlos> 3
[04:15] <carlos> 2
[04:15] <carlos> 1
[04:15] <carlos> 0
[04:15] <malcc> Anyone up for a quick review of https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/malcolmcleaton/launchpad/bug-54032/full-diff ?
[04:16] <SteveA> malcc: just did
[04:16] <SteveA> one comment:
[04:16] <SteveA> and one question
[04:17] <jamesh> matsubara: I suppose so.  I was just pointing out the cause of the failure
[04:17] <SteveA> the question is, does the doc test change actually test the code change?  it isn't clear from the diff what the meaning of the doctest change is, because there is no documentation visible in the diff.
[04:17] <SteveA> the comment is:
[04:17] <SteveA>  pub_careful = False
[04:17] <SteveA> -if not (options.careful or options.careful_publishing):
[04:17] <SteveA> +if options.careful or options.careful_publishing:
[04:17] <SteveA>      pub_careful = True
[04:17] <SteveA>
[04:17] <SteveA> why use an 'if' there?
[04:18] <carlos> staging is back to live
[04:18] <SteveA> you can just say pub_careful = options.careful or options.careful_publishing
[04:19] <malcc> I'll add some doc to the doctest
[04:19] <matsubara> jamesh: thanks.
[04:19] <malcc> And yes, that would be shorter
[04:27] <SteveA> jamesh: when you have a spare few minutes, please join #bzr to talk about the pqm-submit plugin
[04:27] <kiko> hullo
[04:31] <lifeless> gnight all
[04:32] <malcc> SteveA: Changes made, new diff here: https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/fileUoBLtd.html
[04:32] <SteveA> malcc: not only shorter but I think clearer
[04:33] <SteveA> fewer items on the mental stack needed to understand what's going on
[04:33] <malcc> SteveA: Yes I agree.
[04:33] <carlos> SteveA, kiko, stub, lifeless: Could you remove/hide this bounty? https://launchpad.net/bounties/0
[04:33] <SteveA> and reads from python into english easiy
[04:33] <SteveA> looks good
[04:33] <SteveA> is "careful publishing" explained elsewhere in the doc?
[04:34] <kiko> carlos, I don't see how that bounty is worse than any other, tbh. we should just remove them all.
[04:34] <carlos> kiko: well... that one doesn't have any content ;-)
[04:34] <carlos> the others are more user requests and others... are offering money to implement those features
[04:34] <malcc> SteveA: Hmm, no
[04:37] <stub> carlos: done
[04:37] <carlos> stub: thanks
[04:39] <malcc> SteveA: https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/fileJZ1AUe.html
[04:40] <SteveA> malcc: that reads well to me.  good stuff.  r=me.
[04:41] <malcc> SteveA: Thanks
[06:13] <kiko-fud> spiv?
[07:04] <elmo> jamesh: I think 15216 is now done - do you want to check?
[07:08] <jamesh> elmo: It seems to be able to open the mail box.  I'll see if it can process the email
[07:08] <jamesh> elmo: yep.  Looks like it is all working.  Thanks
[07:09] <elmo> jamesh: cool
[07:17] <elmo> SteveA: please revert the MigrationToSodium changes when you get a sec, chinstrap is back
[07:19] <jamesh> elmo: I've updated the wiki page to remove the note
[07:19] <elmo> jamesh: thanks
[08:30] <jamesh> SteveA: http://wiki.python.org/moin/LaunchpadTracker <- that's the info I've put up so far
[08:36] <niemeyer> salgado: Ping
[08:37] <salgado> niemeyer, pong
[08:37] <niemeyer> Heya!
[08:37] <salgado> how's it going?
[08:37] <niemeyer> Everything going smoothly :)
[08:37] <niemeyer> Quick questoin:
 SteveA: What do you guys do when you have to insert something unique in a table, reusing an existent value when it's already there?
 SteveA: Do you usually lock the whole table, use a db function, or catch the error and invalidate the transaction?
[08:38] <SteveA> salgado: I remembered the "single request per person" shipit issue
[08:38] <SteveA> and we tried a couple of things
[08:39] <SteveA> but I can't remember what they were exactly
[08:39] <salgado> yeah, that's right. let me see if I remember
[08:40] <salgado> so, niemeyer, you actually want to know the different things we tried or just if/how we solved it in the end?
[08:40] <SteveA> one issue was to do with the isolation level used
[08:41] <salgado> yeah, because the constraint was hard to write we first tried to lock the table in EXCLUSIVE mode, IIRC.  but that didn't work because of the isolation lever we used
[08:41] <niemeyer> salgado: I'd like to know which solution turned out to be the best and why, if possible. I kind of understand a few different paths to do it.
[08:41] <SteveA> niemeyer: talk with stu when he's arround tomorrow
[08:41] <jamesh> niemeyer: inside a transaction you'd usually perform a select to see if a row exists, and then add the row if it doesn't
[08:42] <niemeyer> jamesh: That's what I'm doing now, except that I have to catch an error on the insert, since someone else might have inserted it before.
[08:42] <niemeyer> jamesh: So it becomes a function, to avoid invalidating the whole transaction
[08:42] <niemeyer> Which is of course boring to work with
[08:43] <niemeyer> I was wondering if you have a clever way to handle it
[08:43] <niemeyer> "SELECT OR INSERT" is what I need.. ;-)
[08:44] <salgado> oh, it's not the same issue as we have on shipit then. the problem we had on shipit is that there's a race condition on this solution
[08:45] <jamesh> niemeyer: if you are doing this with transactional isolation, that shouldn't be possible
[08:45] <niemeyer> jamesh: What shouldn't be possible?
[08:45] <niemeyer> salgado: Our problem is also related to a race condition on the insert, but perhaps a different one
[08:46] <jamesh> niemeyer: someone else to insert a row between the select and insert (at least from the transaction's point of view)
[08:46] <jamesh> you might get a conflict at the end of the transaction, but that can happen for other reasons too
[08:46] <niemeyer> jamesh: Yes, but that's actually the "problem" in this case
[08:47] <niemeyer> jamesh: I'm trying to proctect against the error.. if two different threads/applications are trying to insert/select the same data, they should get the same id, rather than one of them blowing up.
[08:47] <niemeyer> jamesh: Does this explanation make sense to you? I might rephrase it if not
[08:48] <salgado> niemeyer, I think Stuart suggested retrying the one that blows up as a way of fixing this. this way it'd see the data preciously inserted by the first
[08:49] <salgado> (I have no idea how you do this retry, though)
[08:49] <salgado> and s/preciously/previously
[08:49] <niemeyer> salgado: That's what I'm doing now
[08:49] <niemeyer> salgado: But then it needs a function to catch the error and retry gracefully
[08:49] <niemeyer> I guess we're on the same page
[08:50] <salgado> yeah, I guess so too, but better check with stub to make sure
[08:50] <niemeyer> Cool, I'll do that
[08:50] <salgado> he may have something in mind already
[08:50] <niemeyer> Thanks for the info
[08:50] <salgado> np
[11:06] <exarkun> why do I get spammed whenever a bug gets marked as a duplicate of a bug I filed?
[11:06] <exarkun> and how do I make it stop without also losing the ability to get notified when the bug I filed gets resolved?
[11:07] <kiko-afk> exarkun, well..
[11:08] <kiko> exarkun, the way it currently works is that if your bug has dupes, you will get notified of those dupes.
[11:08] <kiko> exarkun, my feeling is that it's hard to draw a line and decide that that specific change (a bug being marked as a dupe of your bug) is not worth mentioning to the bug reporter
[11:09] <exarkun> where is the config option I can toggle to change that behavior, since _I_ am perfectly capable of drawing that line? :)
[11:09] <kiko> it might, for instance, contain further information on the bug. or it might  not be a dupe and you might be in a good position to clarify that. I can think of other [potentially non-contrived even!]  use cases where it is useful to know if a bug has been filed as a duplicated of yours
[11:10] <kiko> heh
[11:10] <kiko> well, you mean apart from .procmailrc, exarkun? :-)
[11:10] <exarkun> I can guarantee that I will have absolutely no ability to provide any insight whatsoever on this bug at any point in the future.  All I want to know is when it is fixed.
[11:11] <exarkun> Okay, what's the regexp that matches the message text when a ticket is fixed?  I've never gotten a message like that. ;)
[11:11] <kiko> one sec.
[11:11] <jamesh> kiko: we've put the launchpad entry in for the bug tracker comp: http://wiki.python.org/moin/LaunchpadTracker
[11:11] <kiko> jamesh, I saw your message a while back, thanks for doing that
[11:11] <jamesh> I just wrote that page up today, actually
[11:11] <kiko> jamesh, meaning a few hours back -- you ircd to SteveA did you not?
[11:12] <kiko> exarkun, the text will look like this:
[11:12] <kiko>        Status: In Progress => Fix Committed
[11:12] <kiko> exarkun, or <whatever> => Fix Committed
[11:12] <radix> Or just => Fix, since there's also Fix Released
[11:12] <kiko> true.
[11:12] <kiko> radix, note also that:
[11:12] <kiko> ** Bug 52584 has been marked a duplicate of this bug
[11:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52584 in launchpad "tab order incorrect for "+addticket" pages" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52584
[11:12] <kiko> that's how a duplicate notation look liks
[11:13] <kiko> so you could potentially match on "Bug \d+ has been marked a duplicate of this bug"
[11:13] <jamesh> kiko: yeah.
[11:13] <kiko> radix, what bug is this that has so many duplicates being reported?
[11:13] <radix> no idea
[11:13] <radix> it's his bug
[11:13] <kiko> radix, whose bug?
[11:13] <kiko> err
[11:13] <kiko> sorry, got confused there all of a sudden
[11:13] <radix> are you mistelling? ;-)
[11:13] <radix> :)
[11:13] <kiko> exarkun, what bug is that?
[11:14] <kiko> radix, that's what you get for participating in a discussion you didn't start <wink>
[11:14] <radix> yeah, I need to quit that
[11:14] <exarkun> 54083 or maybe 54071 or maybe one of the bugs that was a duplicate of one of those bugs or that one of those bugs is a duplicate of
[11:14] <kiko> exarkun, so there /is/ a bug there
[11:15] <kiko> and that is that it is impossible to find out which duplicate is causing you to be messaged when you were subscribed to a dupe but not to the main bug.
[11:15] <exarkun> I would file a bug but I am afraid of overrunning my mail quota.
[11:16] <kiko> exarkun, that bug is already reported, AAR.
[11:16] <exarkun> Okay :)
[11:16] <exarkun> Thanks for the help.
[11:17] <kiko> you're most welcome -- please let me know if you have any other issues. I hear you with regard to a user option, but I am a bit loathe to add a specialist option there.. until I have a more solid set of use cases at least
[11:57] <Mez> er - why is nmap showing katapult as it's upstream ?
[11:59] <Mez> ping: anyone


[02:40] <cjwatson> rbasak: Regarding your query about by-hash a couple of weeks ago, the answer is that the "by-hash" directory lives immediately alongside the files being hashed, so http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic/by-hash/SHA256/ currently only contains the Contents-* files.  You'll find Sources* in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic/main/source/by-hash/SHA256/, for example.
[03:57] <nacc> cjwatson: thanks, i'll integrate that into our code
[09:30] <daniellimws> Hi, I am trying to add a provider for Ubuntu SSO to phab.lubuntu.me
[09:30] <daniellimws> I've read through https://help.launchpad.net/API/SigningRequests which goes through the standard oauth procedure, and decided to implement this
[09:31] <daniellimws> However, I've also saw this https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~canonical-isd-hackers/canonical-identity-provider/trunk/view/head:/docs/resources/token.txt which is rather unconventional as it asks for the username and password
[09:31] <daniellimws> In any way, I believe the launchpad way would be more secure and a proper way to do it.
[09:31] <daniellimws> However, is there any chance that the login.ubuntu.com way would be more advantageous?
[09:45] <wgrant> daniellimws: The Launchpad API is only interesting if you want to authenticate to access Launchpad resources.
[09:45] <wgrant> You want to use the OpenID provider on login.ubuntu.com (aka. SSO, aka. canonical-identity-provider)
[09:49] <vila> Hi there !
[09:49] <vila> It looks like the vcs backends for qastaging have issues. Is it known ?
[09:49] <vila> (both bzr and git AFAICS)
[09:50] <vila> https://code.qastaging.launchpad.net/~vila/ols-jenkaas-test-project/+git/approved-5759 for example
[09:59] <daniellimws> wgrant, is there a good way to use oauth1, because phabricator currently doesnt support openid and it would be a large hassle to add them in
[11:35] <wgrant> daniellimws: Ubuntu SSO only supports providing identity using OpenID (and SAML, in limited cases) today.
[11:37] <daniellimws> wgrant, please correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't this document describe how to get an oauth1 token for ubuntu sso? https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~canonical-isd-hackers/canonical-identity-provider/trunk/view/head:/docs/resources/token.txt
[11:39] <wgrant> daniellimws: That's an old API that's more designed for an app (originally the Ubuntu One file sync client) to change an Ubuntu One account's details without going through a web browser.
[11:40] <daniellimws> wgrant, ok, thanks a lot for the help! :D
[13:28] <vila> wgrant, cjwatson: So, re qastaging vcs issue earlier,  it looks like the bzr backend is ok but the git one still coughs. Known issue ?
[13:28] <cjwatson> vila: There's something up with celery jobs, but I haven't quite worked out what yet.
[13:29] <vila> cjwatson: ok, good enough for me, thanks.


[13:19] <gary_poster> frankban, approved your canonicaladmin days, thank you.  Starting on review of the charm branch now
[13:24] <frankban> gary_poster: cool thanks!
[13:24] <gary_poster> welcome :-)
[13:32]  * bac fights with chinstrap over new ssh keys
[13:47] <hazmat> morning
[13:49] <gary_poster> morning
[14:32] <gary_poster> review done frankban
[14:33] <frankban> thanks gary_poster
[14:36] <teknico> gary_poster, frankban, do you have some time for talking about static file serving?
[14:38] <benji> gary_poster: I would like a consult re. image assets when you get a chance, I have learned of some new, complicating factors
[14:38] <gary_poster> teknico, I'm supposed to have another call in a sec but could start now
[14:39] <gary_poster> ack benji
[14:39] <benji> I am going to go make a protein shake in the meantime.
[14:39] <gary_poster> teknico, juju-ui?
[14:39] <teknico> gary_poster, ok
[14:50]  * bac reviewing frankban's branch
[14:50] <frankban> thanks bac
[15:07] <Makyo> frankban, thanks for the tip on imports.
[15:08] <Makyo> Ditto, gary_poster, will prowl through the PEP
[15:08] <gary_poster> cool
[15:29] <gary_poster> bac bcsaller benji jovan2 Makyo call in 1
[15:29] <bac> rt
[15:29] <gary_poster> (the rest of us are already there :-) )
[16:20] <gary_poster> benji, actually you ready now?
[16:20] <gary_poster> juju-ui
[16:23] <benji> gary_poster: I wasn't, but am now; coming over.
[16:23] <gary_poster> cool
[18:31] <bac> gary_poster, hazmat: does 'improv' have some inherent meaning or is that just what the script is named?  i'm concerned about exposing the name in the charm docs as if it means something.  let me know if i'm missing something.
[18:31] <hazmat> bac, we can change the name.. it was improv theater inspired ;-)
[18:32] <hazmat> bac, simulator.py ?
[18:32] <bac> hazmat: no, i don't think the script needs to be changed.  i just don't think our docs should assume anyone else knows what the heck it is
[18:33] <bac> e.g.: this from the conf template:  description "Juju API improv"
[20:15] <bac> benji: would you have time/interest in reviewing my branch today?
[20:17] <benji> bac: I have both.  Which one?
[20:17] <bac> benji: the one in review!  :)
[20:17] <benji> oh, I see it on the board
[20:17] <benji> :)
[20:31] <Makyo> gary_poster, call?
[20:32] <gary_poster> y Makyo 1 sec
[20:32] <Makyo> gary_poster, np
[20:42] <bac> thanks benji
[20:42] <benji> bac: my pleasure
[20:43] <bac> benji: when did we switch to 'one var'?
[20:43] <bac> i like the idea...just missed it
[20:45] <benji> bac: you know what; we may not have officially switched yet; I ran the idea by several people and they all liked it, but I have to remember now if I pushed it through 100% (this was just before I got sick)
[20:46] <bac> benji: yeah, i don't recall discussing it.  i think for a list of single-line declarations i'd be fine with not repeating 'var'.  when they span pages, though, i find it really irritating.
[20:46] <bac> so if we had to have a simple rule, i'd go with 'one per'
[20:47] <benji> bac: s/pages/lines/ ?
[20:47] <bac> yes, i meant lines but it is even worse when they are *pages* (such as my code you dinged)
[20:48] <benji> :)
[20:54] <benji> bac: the reason I wanted to add vars is that it enables a sane and consistent object literal style; I'll figure out the current status of that and email the list shortly
[21:01] <benji> bac: here is the mail I sent out last week: https://lists.launchpad.net/juju-gui-peeps/msg01483.html
[21:01] <benji> If I had been thinking about it, this is something we should have discussed today on the call.
[21:02] <benji> Interesting, I don't see the style guide changes in trunk.  I wonder if someone reverted it.
[21:05]  * bac eods -- have a good weekend.
[21:11] <Makyo> Walking dog before the clouds roll in, back in a few
[21:20] <gary_poster> EoD for me too
[21:20] <gary_poster> Have a good weekend


[01:23] <fabbione> YOYOOY
[01:23] <fabbione> dapper is open on sparc too
[01:23] <fabbione> building as we speak
[04:01] <shinmen> Cool.
[04:22] <shinmen> Anyone here running ubuntu on sparc on a gnome desktop?
[04:23] <shinmen> I have here, nautilus, gnome-vfs-daemon, and gnome-panel each one just nailing the processors on this box.
[04:24] <shinmen> They do it inmediatly after loggin in, and killing them doesn't help, as soon as they respawn the start back at it.
[04:24] <fabbione> shinmen: no idea :/
[04:24] <fabbione> my machine is headless
[04:25] <fabbione> i think David Miller had exactly the same behaviour
[04:25] <fabbione> but if nobody debugs it, it will never get fixed
[04:29] <shinmen> fabbione, BTW, where do I send the X configs for the U80?
[04:30] <fabbione> shinmen: did you save both of them?
[04:31] <fabbione> the pregenerated and fixed?
[04:31] <fabbione> send them to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:31] <shinmen> fabbione, yeap.
[04:31] <fabbione> and also add the output from discover
[04:32] <shinmen> fabbione, How do  I get that?
[04:33] <fabbione> (just one sec, i am looking at the proper command)
[04:33] <shinmen> Did an strace -p on nautilus, and this is what it's doing:
[04:34] <shinmen> ioctl(3, 0x4004667f, 0xefa115d4)        = 0
[04:34] <shinmen> poll([{fd=4, events=POLLIN}, {fd=3, events=POLLIN}, {fd=8, events=POLLIN|POLLPRI}, {fd=10, events=POLLIN|POLLPRI}, {fd=14, events=POLLIN, revents=POLLNVAL}] , 5, -1) = 1
[04:34] <shinmen> Over and over.
[04:35] <fabbione> shinmen: ok..
[04:36] <fabbione> ok
[04:36] <fabbione> apt-get install discover1
[04:36] <shinmen> ///me runs away for a bowl of fruit loops
[04:36] <fabbione> discover -d --enable-all
[05:37] <shinmen> fabbione, Sent. The sound card doesn't apear in the discover output, but it's a cs4231.
[05:39] <shinmen> fabbione, Where did you read about DaveM having that gnome bug? debian-sparc?
[05:40] <fabbione> shinmen: no he told me on IRC
[05:40] <fabbione> does the audio work? or did you have to do anything fancy?
[05:40] <shinmen> fabbione, Noup, modprobe, ogg123.. done. Mixer and all.
[05:40] <fabbione> ?
[05:41] <fabbione> so just modprobe ?
[05:41] <shinmen> yeap
[05:41] <fabbione> ok
[05:41] <fabbione> probably the module is not hotplug compliant
[05:41] <fabbione> we will get it fixed
[05:42] <fabbione> i need to go out of IRC and must finish to pack my bag
[05:42] <fabbione> later


[00:02] <waltman> Oh, I see. What you see for a "/me" depends on your irc client. I only see 1 *.
[00:03] <waltman> all I typed was this: "/me fails to parse that as well."
[00:04] <jedijf> i only see one as well, but i assume pidgin throws 3
[00:05] <jedijf> or else, i'm completely lost and will join you in the fail
[00:06] <waltman> irssi uses 1.
[00:06] <jedijf> correct
[00:35]  * InHisName just wishing for three stars
[00:35]  * InHisName gets a wish
[00:41] <adom> jedijf: not yet. got a couple tabs open in chrome. gonna come back to it later or sunday prob.
[00:43] <adom> my irssi theme shows one star but its set upcustom the way i like it
[00:43] <adom> as does chat
[00:43] <adom> all sexy like
[00:44] <InHisName> text chatting is sexy ??!!??
[00:44] <adom> its multiplayer notepad
[00:45] <adom> i miss my three screens :(
[00:46] <InHisName> Does linux support 3 colums x 3 rows monitors ?   (9)
[00:47] <InHisName> If you had monitors with NO borders.... Would that be line 60x35" simulated screen ?
[00:48] <InHisName> s/line/like/
[04:16] <jackson_> o/
[10:04] <rmg51> good (daylight savings) morning :P
[10:11] <InHisName> Good morning to u 2
[12:56] <waltman> How did it get to be 9:00 already?
[13:07] <jedijf> seriously
[13:08] <rmg51> the joys of daylight savings 8-)
[13:09] <rmg51> do I really want to make bacon this morning?
[13:10] <waltman> Why would you NOT want to make bacon this morning?
[13:13] <rmg51> laziness
[13:15] <waltman> It's like I don't know you anymore!
[13:22] <rmg51> if only I could teach Teddy to cook ;-)
[13:23] <rmg51> keep on mind I just got back from a 5 1/2 mile walk :-[
[16:02] <MutantTurkey> pksjgq'kwjgtifsajg'sagj
[16:02] <MutantTurkey> i get home right after a late night
[16:02] <MutantTurkey> the police are outside my house, my neighbors around
[16:02] <MutantTurkey> here i am hungover and everyones upset
[16:02] <MutantTurkey> my mom forgot to bring the dog inside
[16:03] <MutantTurkey> he wanders the neighbor hood
[16:03] <MutantTurkey> and here i am dealing with it
[16:03] <MutantTurkey> what a mess
[16:03] <MutantTurkey> my mom is off at church and my dad is in florida
[16:03] <MutantTurkey> so i was dealing with the spanish inquisition all by my self
[16:03] <MutantTurkey> they put the dog in the back seat, behind bars.
[16:04] <MutantTurkey> like
[16:04] <MutantTurkey> this is pretty much what he looks like
[16:04] <MutantTurkey> http://imgs.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/pets/2010/07/23/pembroke_welsh_corgi400x313.jpg
[16:04] <MutantTurkey> ridiculous...
[16:29] <waltman> I don't know, that dog looks pretty ferocious to me.
[16:30] <waltman> Someone called the police about a stray dog?!
[16:35] <MutantTurkey> yeah
[16:35] <MutantTurkey> police state?
[17:10] <MutantTurkey> friggin freaking out
[17:10] <MutantTurkey> I cant track down my account for temple applications...
[17:10] <MutantTurkey> even though i know i applied
[17:39] <SamuraiAlba> Ok... GOOOOOOooooood BACON TRISTATE AREA!
[17:54] <InHisName> an ittty bitty dog put behind bars for wandering the neighborhood ?   No biting at all ?
[17:55] <InHisName> Can you get decent bacon from dog ?
[19:31] <SamuraiAlba> no
[20:01] <SamuraiAlba> For sale - HP DL 380 G5 Dual Quad Core Xeon 2.0ghz rack.  4 73gb SAS 2.5" 10k rpm drives, 8 GB FB ECC DDR2
[23:44] <MutantTurkey> SamuraiAlba: still for sale?
[23:44] <MutantTurkey> how much are we asking for it?
[23:45] <SamuraiAlba> $350 seems good, right?
[23:45] <SamuraiAlba> + shipping
[23:45] <SamuraiAlba> or I'll knock iff 50 if picked up
[23:59] <MutantTurkey> huh wow that's pretty good deal
[23:59] <MutantTurkey> where do you live?
[23:59] <Sadin> this is a good deal O.o http://www.beastnode.com/webhosting.html


[01:08] <nalioth> firefox bugs inflame trolls now?  /me is confuzzled
[01:20] <Flannel> nalioth: Misunderstood bugs inflame people who are looking to be inflamed.
[01:21] <Flannel> nalioth: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/08/07/1521208
[01:21] <Flannel> Even the title is inflamatory
[01:21] <Flannel> or, suggestive, I suppose.
[01:23] <nalioth> not vey well worded, is it?
[01:25] <Pricey> So they're using alpha software and upgrading packages willy-nilly without reading changelogs etc. etc.
[01:25] <Pricey> You will get burnt!
[01:26] <Flannel> Pricey: but, but, but!
[01:26] <Flannel> google has made me think that alphas are stable and meant for mainstream users!
[01:28] <Pricey> I like 'knarf's comment.
[04:01] <Flannel> !away > danl
[04:31] <zhxk> i would like thanks to iknoia, who lifted my ban recently
[04:31] <zhxk> and stew also,, who helped me a lot
[04:31] <bazhang> zhxk, we'll let him know
[04:31] <bazhang> s/him/them/
[04:31] <zhxk> ok
[04:36] <elky> oh really now.
[04:36] <elky> does someone want to fill the IRCC in on this?
[04:37] <bazhang> he's getting a second cloak?
[04:37] <nalioth> bazhang: is he?
[04:38] <bazhang> nalioth, he is requesting one
[04:38] <nalioth> requesting doesn't mean "will be granted"
[04:38] <bazhang> zhxk` had one; good point
[04:38] <Flannel> bantracker doesn't list any bans from "zhxk" search, what am I missing?
[04:40] <Flannel> hmm, no, seems he isn't banned.  That I can see anyway.
[05:39] <zhxk> hello, folks, may i have a cloak at this moment?
[05:42] <zhxk> hi
[07:40] <bazhang> ugh Bilok
[07:41] <Flannel> ah, this guy.
[08:18] <bazhang> lengthy PM with Bilok
[08:19] <bazhang> he is 'loved' on ##mac and #gentoo and banned both places apparently (also says he has 3 k-lines in past)
[08:38] <Flannel> !nickspam > vagothcpp
[08:41] <ikonia> bazhang: ##mac is the troll pit
[08:41] <ikonia> or is that ##macosx
[08:42] <elky> ask nalioth, he knows which is which
[08:42] <ikonia> it's which ever one fujisan hangs out in
[08:42] <ikonia> he's not online, I normally use that as the guide
[08:42] <elky> haha
[08:43] <nalioth> ##mac is the more trollish of the two.  neither are free of the smell of mutton
[08:43] <Flannel> sucks when your north star heads south....
[08:43] <Flannel> nalioth: They've got lambs?
[08:43] <nalioth> Flannel: you are a sorry excuse for a nerd.  :|
[08:43] <elky> Flannel, mutton is post-lamb.
[08:44] <elky> Flannel, for example, you rarely buy true lamb in a supermarket, it's usually mutton.
[08:44] <Flannel> nalioth: Eh?
[08:45] <nalioth> Flannel: you've not read any of Master Tolkiens works?
[08:45] <Flannel> nalioth: I have... I was attempting at a joke, it obviously didn't go over well.
[08:45] <nalioth> sorry, it's way past my bedtime
[08:46] <elky> Flannel, and i didn't get it in general. the only joke i can pull from it now that you state it is, would be 'no, they're wolves dressed up'
[08:46] <bazhang> ikonia, I see. never spent time in there
[08:47] <ikonia> I went in there by accident when I should have been in ##apple
[08:47] <bazhang> haha
[08:47] <ikonia> fujisan, bacta, the whole troll crew where in ther
[08:47] <ikonia> there
[08:47] <bazhang> whoa
[08:53] <Mamarok> let's hope they do not prepare something
[08:59] <ikonia> too dense
[09:01] <ikonia> nalioth: if you're awake check out evet he's hit ##linux ##unix #ubuntu ##windows and a few others by the looks of it offering his servers to an open source project....but then stating the prices of his provide...almost like an advert.
[09:49] <elky> heh, bacta is slighting staff in #defocus now
[12:19] <bazhang> there should be a factoid for dentistry
[12:19] <bazhang> getting answers feels like pulling teeth at times
[13:30] <Bacta> Hi I would like to request the removal of my ban in #ubuntu-offtopic
[13:31] <elky> Bacta, considering your behaviour after our discussion last night, are you seriously asking this?
[13:31] <Bacta> What behaviour? What did I do?
[13:32] <Bacta> I said "PURPLE!" somewhere but that was it
[13:32] <elky> well, i am in #defocus
[13:32] <Bacta> What did I do in #defocus?
[13:32] <elky> and i was not impressed with what you were saying in there, particularly about staff.
[13:32] <Bacta> It was a joke
[13:32] <elky> it wasn't funny.
[13:32] <Bacta> Did you examine the context with which it was said?
[13:33] <Bacta> If njan had a problem about it he would've made contact with me and he hasn't
[13:35] <elky> Bacta, i'm not comfortable letting you back in to our channels given your behaviour past and present.  You have baited #ubuntu-artwork twice within the past 24 hrs, once whilst trying to tell me you have given up trolling, and once since that conversation ended.
[13:36] <Bacta> I'm in a number of ubuntu channels where nobody has had a problem with me
[13:36] <Bacta> I've actually helped someone in #ubuntu tonight and have been chatting with some Vietnamese Ubuntu users
[13:37] <elky> Bacta, i am still not convinced.
[13:37] <bazhang> talking about the adware in Ubuntu is helping?
[13:38] <Bacta> No someone came in trying to decide whether to get i386 or AMD64
[13:38] <elky> no matter how many people you might help, to allow you do continue with things such as offering "free abortions" would be gross negligence.
[13:38] <Bacta> I'm not a doctor therefore I couldn't legally perform an abortion
[13:39] <elky> that doesn't mean anything.
[13:40] <Bacta> It was a dumb thing of me to say
[13:41] <elky> and we don't want the chance you'll say more dumb things.
[13:41] <Bacta> So therefore I'm no longer allowed in #ubuntu-offtopic?
[13:41] <elky> until there's a drastic change in your behaviour, yes.
[13:42] <elky> !appeals
[13:42] <Bacta> But provided I behave myself I can stay in the channels I currently am in?
[13:42] <elky> that's for the operators of those channels to judge.
[13:42] <Bacta> Awesome :)
[13:42] <elky> if you mess up, you'll receive the consequences.
[13:42] <Bacta> consequences?
[13:43] <elky> like, say, being banned.
[13:43] <Bacta> Ah ic ic
[13:43] <Bacta> Yes bans are usually not good
[13:45] <elky> do you have any further business here?
[13:46] <Bacta> Business? You couldn't validate my parking coupon could you?
[13:46] <elky> Bacta, not unless you make a purchase.
[13:46] <Bacta> If I could purchase smooth fullscreen Flash support I would but otherwise I guess I'll be leaving
[13:47] <elky> We don't currently sell anything.
[13:48] <Bacta> xe cam on
[13:48] <Bacta> goodbye :)
[13:48] <elky> bye.
[13:50] <elky> and so he turns his attention to #css to tell north and south korea to stop fighting because they're both really chinese.
[13:51]  * elky headdesks
[13:51] <elky> and no, there was no conversation there for it to be relevant to.
[13:51] <bazhang> of course not.
[13:54] <elky> and now baits staff in #defocus again
[14:00] <Gary> he likes fishing
[14:09] <elky> Gary, and he does it in lots of channels and gets away with it, consistently.
[14:09] <elky> of course he sees no reason to change, he keeps getting the green light by being allowed to stay on the network.
[14:11] <elky> oh, and by getting the attention he wants from the staff he baits.
[14:12] <Gary> if he is talking to us in #defocus he is generally not active in other channels
[14:14] <bazhang> troll bait
[14:15] <elky> Gary, you dont see a problem with having to entertain a baiting troll by letting him bait in #defocus instead? That seems to me to be an incredibly broken process.
[14:21] <elky> and look. he's now baiting us in #ubuntu.
[14:31] <gnomefreak> cast the bait some where in the water like you would with, well fishing bait :) AFK
 i am searching how to write lambda sentnce on deburiijn form  <--best ot question for awhile
[19:36]  * genii makes more coffee
[21:04] <guntbert> !proxy
[21:05] <guntbert> I thought mibbit is banned from freenode?
[21:05] <nhandler> guntbert: It is
[21:05] <guntbert> then someone sholud maybe change the above factoid :-)
[21:05] <guntbert> *should
[21:06] <nhandler> You are probably right guntbert. Thank you for pointing it out
[21:06] <guntbert> ok, bye
[21:10] <nhandler> Would someone with access to the ubottu factoids mind making the necessary change to the !proxy factoid ?
[21:20] <popey> @login
[21:22] <popey> !proxy
[21:23] <nhandler> Thanks popey
[21:23] <popey> np


[19:34] <smoser> zul_, did you make any progress on console bug ?
[19:34] <zul_> smoser: not yet...am close though


[16:14] <nihil_2013> Is it possible to download all wiki pages for offline use without using an unethical amount of bandwidth?
[16:15] <nihil_2013> I'm wondering if there's a nice tarball of the Wiki or something. Thanks.


[13:16] <len-dt> astraljava, alpha 2 i386 tested. Everything seems to be the same. The 3.5 kernel is there, it's audio performance seems not as good as 3.2... but much better than generic (tested upstream generic)
[13:19] <len-dt> upstream testing was done for bug #1018220
[13:26] <len-dt> ailo, Is there anywhere in the documentation that suggests USB audio IF should be plugged in before boot?
[13:28] <len-dt> ailo, it seems to me the rtirq script gets run once at boot and so a USB IF plugged in after that will give poor performance... maybe even worse than if the script was not run at all.
[13:29]  * len-dt was having trouble with his USB IF last night...
[14:02] <len-dt> ailo, I will do more testing with this, both audio and midi.
[14:04] <len-dt> ailo, I think I will have a change from runlevel * to runlevel 3 rerun the script.
[14:05] <len-dt> or at least have that option.
[15:06] <scott-work> can someone help kate stewart with the A2 release?
[15:06] <scott-work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Alpha2
[15:06] <scott-work> i'm really busy at work
[15:06] <scott-work> have all test been done?
[15:06] <scott-work> can we fill in some technical items to check in the link?
[17:07] <ailo> len-dt: If the rtirq script is needed for the usb device, maybe we can make the script restart. Haven't tried that
[17:23] <astraljava> scott-work: There's not much to say, only Xfce 4.10 update, and kernel bump to 3.5. I'll tell her that.
[17:24] <astraljava> scott-work: And I didn't have time to do the amd64 tests, all available spare time went to Xubuntu QA.
[22:20] <len-dt> astraljava, ailo according to the web page Scott gave up a bit, "The GTK updates created some theming issues (incorrect colors in some indicators) "
[23:39] <len-dt> ailo, Should the rtirq script have any effect on the generic kernel?
[23:39] <len-dt> It seems to.
[23:42] <len-dt> ailo, anyway, restarting (/etc/init.d/rtirq restart) rtirq seems to make a large difference even on the generic upstream kernel.
[23:44] <len-dt> ailo, for USB audio IFs. I was having problems even with 3.5 low latency in 12.10 and worse with generic, even with -p 256. Now -p 64 is usable for single or double note stuff.
[23:45] <len-dt> ailo, I have not had time to test a midi IF yet.
[23:47] <len-dt> I need to retest with low latency on the usb audio IF first then I will move on to midi testing.


[00:51] <xubuntu192> o
[00:52] <nv_> ?
[01:57] <amerigena> Question for anyone willing to answer : if I upgrade to linux-image-lts-raring and xserver-xorg-lts-raring, how I do eliminate automatic update notifications for older kernels (i.e. lts-quantal)?
[01:57] <amerigena> I'm getting update notifications, but obviously don't need them.
[05:16] <clipper> What's the best way to recover data from an external hard drive?
[05:22] <cfhowlett> clipper, suggest you ask in #ubuntu
[05:25] <clipper> ok thanks
[05:26] <cfhowlett> clipper, hope you can save some of that!
[06:32] <allstarsnorks2> Hi guys
[06:33] <cfhowlett> allstarsnorks2, greetings
[06:34] <allstarsnorks2> I'm going to replace Zorin OS 7 with Xubuntu 13.10.
[06:34] <allstarsnorks2> Xubuntu's Software Updater crashed er
[06:34] <cfhowlett> allstarsnorks2, sounds like a plan.  You do know that 13.10 has only 9 months of support, right?
[06:35] <allstarsnorks2> Yep
[06:56] <allstarsnorks2> How do I install every gambas2 package? (I'm trying to base my distro off Ubuntu)
[06:57] <allstarsnorks2> And software centre said I have to install gambas2 packages (for Ubuntu Builder)
[06:58] <cfhowlett> allstarsnorks2, you could download the .deb and sudo dpkg -i foo.deb
[06:59] <allstarsnorks2> Oh. I'll do that after the install.
[06:59] <cfhowlett> allstarsnorks2, that IS how you install that package...
[07:00] <allstarsnorks2> No I mean Xubuntu 13.10 install on my PC.
[07:00] <cfhowlett> allstarsnorks2, ok.
[07:01] <allstarsnorks2> Was just testing Xubuntu 13.10 on a VM that's why. Now it's on a PC.
[07:04] <allstarsnorks2> I hate GRUB.
[07:05] <cfhowlett> allstarsnorks2, there are other bootloaders ...
[07:07] <allstarsnorks2> Oh sure.
[07:24] <Guest74044> is there any way to merge title bar down to firefox window?
[07:47] <nonuby> procrastioning, is there a way to desaturate (make black and white) all systray/notification icons in xubuntu/xfce (i.e. green skype, orange clementime music player, xchat)
[08:00] <nonuby> can anyone tell me the default value of Client0_Command (.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce4-perchannel/xfc4-session.xml)on a non-bastardized xubuntu install?
[09:01] <junka> Can I change the wallpaper of plymouth on 12.04? It's ugly. I love the saucy one!! :D
[09:09] <Noskcaj> junka, You should be able to
[09:11] <junka> but how..?
[09:19] <bazhang> http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2013/07/install-change-boot-screen-theme-ubuntu-13-04/ junka
[09:51] <PiiiRKO> hi folks, is somebody there from Czech republic?..
[09:57] <knome> PiiiRKO, are you looking for help in your own language or just chatting?
[09:58] <PiiiRKO> knome: I just want some help.. but we can chat too.. :)
[09:58] <knome> !cz | PiiiRKO
[09:58] <PiiiRKO> ubottu: thx :)
[09:59] <PiiiRKO> ubottu: but I need help in xubuntu.. whatever.. youre right :)
[09:59] <knome> PiiiRKO, they should be able to help with xubuntu there as well
[10:00] <PiiiRKO> knome: ok.. thx :)
[12:59] <Arpad2> when I login with one user I get blackscreen
[13:51] <heavyammo> cfhowlett, soo... nothing useful is available in the software center
[13:51] <heavyammo> could I manually change
[13:51] <cfhowlett> heavyammo, sorry
[13:51] <heavyammo> the battery <- not itself, but what Ubuntu sees..
[13:53] <heavyammo> cfhowlett, well first of all
[13:53] <heavyammo> do you think it is going have any positive effects if I did that
[13:56] <JoseGabriel> Hello. Can anybody help me install a network printer?
[13:56] <JoseGabriel> After clicking forward on the choose driver part, it just stays there, thinking, and nothing happens.
[13:56] <JoseGabriel> Even if I chose the Local Driver option.
[13:56] <JoseGabriel> (I have the ppt file)
[13:57] <JoseGabriel> The gutenprint option tells me it's getting installed and it stays there.
[13:58] <JoseGabriel> Perhaps a command line way of doing it.
[13:58] <heavyammo> JoseGabriel, I would post that in #ubuntu
[13:58] <JoseGabriel> Just did, heavyammo, no response.
[13:59] <JoseGabriel> They'be busy answering questions like "How do i change channel?" :)
[14:00] <heavyammo> yeah, try reposting it in five minutes or so, I think a lot of the support is American and there it is early in the morning right now, I noticed the channel is very quite
[14:01] <heavyammo> you could also try askubuntu
[14:01] <heavyammo> they are kind of quick to reply
[14:02] <JoseGabriel> I'll tryt hat.
[14:02] <JoseGabriel> Thanks.
[14:23] <clipper> Hi, I have a problem with xfce. When I start some applications the taskbar icon is too big for the taskbar. I am using 12.04 and have updated xfce to 4.10 (I also experienced it with 4.12 on a previous installation). The taskbar is set to size 20 but some icons start at the default size of 24, like this http://i.imgur.com/PdZAPML.png
[14:47] <ochosi> clipper: in case that's the indicator-plugin, you should be able to right-click it and go to properties and set a maximum icon-size (depending on your panel height)
[14:48] <ochosi> as i don't use clementine, i wouldn't know whether it's a trayicon or an indicator
[14:57] <clipper> I thought I had tried that but I'll give it another try
[15:05] <clipper> no, it still starts too large
[15:12] <ochosi> clipper: did you restart the panel? (xfce4-panel --restart)
[15:19] <clipper> that seems to have worked for one program that does it actually
[17:30] <xubuntu818> Hi, I've just downloaded xbuntu 13.10, but I only get text when I boot from the DVD. How do I start the installation??
[17:31] <PiiiRKO> xubuntu818: Hi there, did you burn ISO as a bootable DVD?..
[17:33] <xubuntu818> Yes, it boots from the DVD, but I just get a terminal screen, that says 'type help for the list of commarnds'
[17:36] <xubuntu818> Sorry, that should be commands
[17:37] <elfy> xubuntu818: did you check the iso was good before you burnt it? and do you not get a screen with a 'human and kbd' at bottom? if you do press any key and there is an option to check the cd for defects I believe
[17:57] <xubuntu818> Thanks, I'll reboot and press a key
[18:45] <xubuntu731> Hi, posted a question about 1 hour ago, and I can't get back to it. What have I got to do??
[19:11] <brauleinchen> Seit WISE 2013 lerne ich Deutsch an der ISSK der JGU (Mittelstufe) ist alles richtig? soll ich "vor" schreiben?
[19:16] <bgardner> !de | brauleinchen
[19:16] <brauleinchen> oops
[19:16] <brauleinchen> sorry
[19:16] <brauleinchen> false channel
[19:56] <thedanielmatt> heyas - anyone have a minute for a vncserver quesiton?
[19:56] <thedanielmatt> perhaps a question, too
[20:03] <knome> !anyone | thedanielmatt
[20:08] <junka> hello I get an error of "Segmentation fault (core dumped)"
[20:08] <junka> what does this mean
[20:09] <knome> junka, the application you are trying to run isn't working.
[20:10] <junka> it was working when I first installed it
[20:10] <knome> okay.
[20:10] <knome> unless you tell us more about the problem, we're unable to help
[20:11] <junka> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6439241/
[20:12] <junka> I had the same error when I was uninstalling abiword and gnumeric on xubuntu
[20:13] <junka> where software center also crashed
[20:33] <Monkeytoe> anyone know a good pocket command guide for linux?
[20:48] <thedanielmatt> does vncserver still use the /etc/vnc/xstartup script? I can't get it to use xfce4
[21:57] <infamy> Hi. I'm trying to hook up my laptop via HDMI to my flatscreen to be able to display Netflix on the TV. When I hook up the HDMI cable, it says No Input still, as if nothing was plugged up at all. It works in Windows, so I'm assuming I don't have something set correctly. Is there anyone available that could please assist?
[22:18] <knome> Sorry, something went wrong.
[22:18] <knome> erm, yes. wrong channel.
[22:24] <xubuntu035> Is there somebody who has a Samsung Galaxy S4 (unlocked model GT-I9500) connected and accessable  to a xubuntu Desktop via USB cable? If yes, please post what has to be done to get there. Thanks in advance.
[22:24] <xubuntu035> xubuntu035
[22:32] <JainAmber> Hello
[22:34] <JainAmber> A close friend tried running Xubuntu 12.04 on her laptop (Acer Aspire) using live USB. Everything seemed to work fine (including wifi).
[22:36] <JainAmber> Then she installed Xubuntu on the same laptop but now the wifi drivers weren't installed, When she clicks on network manager icon, she gets to see a message like "Wifi firmware drivers not installed"
[22:36] <JainAmber> So, live USB somehow installs correct wifi adaptor drivers, but hard disk installation could not.
[22:37] <JainAmber> Is there some way to search, extract (from live USB mode) and then manually install these drivers onto hard disk installation?
[22:38] <Haggard> JainAmber: Before you do that, did you check the additional drivers setting? It might show you if there's a different driver available.
[22:40] <JainAmber> Haggard, I guess the "Additional Drivers" program requires an internet connection (though I'm not sure because I tried this a few days ago).
[22:41] <Haggard> JainAmber: Does the system have an ethernet port?
[22:41] <JainAmber> Haggard, yes, but ethernet port is damaged. And so, wifi is the only option.
[22:41] <Haggard> I'm not a support guy, but I'll try to help until a guru jumps in.  :)
[22:41] <JainAmber> Unless I somehow get a 3G USB dongle to connect to internet over 3g (which will be difficult).
[22:42] <JainAmber> Haggard, well, to be honest, I don't have physical access to that laptop right now. My friend lives in another city (but I'll be visiting her on November 22)
[22:42] <Haggard> It should still look at the installation media, but let me check real quick.
[22:43] <JainAmber> I will come back to this channel on Nov 22-23...
[22:43] <JainAmber> I could have setup SSH access but Internet isn't working ;)
[22:44] <xubuntu378> hello looking for some help installing a network printer , when trying to install through the gui it just stalls - found a question raised on ask ubuntu with a same problem but not answered
[22:44] <JainAmber> I guess I need to do something along these lines: http://askubuntu.com/questions/304900/how-do-i-install-my-wireless-card-driver-offline
[22:45] <JainAmber> (ofcourse, I need to find my wireless card model number and corresponding driver package name first)
[22:45] <Haggard> JainAmber: Ok. Sounds good. Probably a good link to use.
[22:46] <Haggard> Utta-P3nDragon
[22:46] <xubuntu378> http://askubuntu.com/questions/378897/network-printer-installation-problem
[22:46] <Haggard> goobledook - sorry
[22:48] <JainAmber> Except for Xubuntu version, this problem looks exactly similar to mine: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2156167 ... will try this when I have physical access to box
[22:51] <JainAmber> Thanks Haggard!
[22:54] <Haggard> JainAmber: Cheers. Now back to this (grumble...grumble) man page.