[04:34] <hikiko> hi
[05:14] <pitti> Good morning
[06:30] <ricotz> Sweet5hark1, hi, while you are not pushing your packaging changes and therefore I can't push mine, here is a serious problem I ran into https://paste.debian.net/plain/790383 (this rogue comment breaks this command)
[07:56] <willcooke> morning all
[07:57] <willcooke> Sweet5hark1, thanks for the LO FTBFS reports.   Sounds like you're having fun ;)
[07:57] <Sweet5hark1> moin
[07:59] <Sweet5hark1> willcooke: yes. see ricotz1 comment from  1:30 hours ago though. It _might_ be LibreOffice itself still after all. At least there is a glimmer of hope for that.
[07:59]  * Sweet5hark1 tests that right now.
[08:02] <Laney> morrrrrrrrrrrrrrning
[08:03] <Sweet5hark1> Laney: heya!
[08:04] <Laney> hey Sweet5hark1
[08:04] <Laney> did you win yet?
[08:04] <Laney> Trevinho: I didn't see it before - try trunk?
[08:05] <Sweet5hark1> Laney: against the buildds? not yet, but ricotz is giving me hope ...
[08:05] <Laney> hehe
[08:05] <Laney> how are you?
[08:06] <seb128> hey willcooke Sweet5hark1 Laney
[08:06] <willcooke> hey seb128 Laney
[08:06] <Laney> hi willcooke et seb128
[08:06] <Laney> how's it going?
[08:07] <Laney> happy friday too
[08:07] <Laney> it is raining!
[08:07] <willcooke> The rain is here
[08:07] <willcooke> :D:D
[08:07] <Sweet5hark1> Laney: and ricotz scares me a bit: the thing should have broken the build ~always AFAICS, but for some reason it worked. And that stuff is in there for _two years_ already.
[08:07] <Sweet5hark1> seb128: heya ...
[08:07] <willcooke> Golf competition tomorrow and it's forecast for 45 mph winds
[08:07] <willcooke> yay
[08:08] <Laney> hope you are good at compensating
[08:08] <Laney> also
[08:08] <Laney> #managerstereotypes
[08:08] <willcooke> lol
[08:08] <seb128> it's not raining here yet but they forecast rain starting in the afternoon, which is unfortunate I was supposed to play after work :-/
[08:09] <Sweet5hark1> Laney, willcooke: hah, good of you to take the rain for a few days. Here it was a miserable summer the last weeks, but now its better (because you took the rain for a few days, I guess).
[08:09] <Laney> it was our turn
[08:09] <willcooke> I think we're getting all our rain for the rest of the year in the next 24 hours
[08:09] <Laney> i'm happy actually
[08:10] <pitti> hey Laney, good morning!
[08:10] <pitti> hello willcooke
[08:10] <Laney> the water butt outside is empty
[08:10] <pitti> bonjour seb128 !
[08:10] <pitti> finally, some life here :)
[08:10] <Laney> AND i don't have to go to the allotment to water it
[08:10] <Laney> hey pitti!
[08:10] <seb128> yeah, like it's not going to rain between august and decembre in u.k, riiiiight
[08:10] <seb128> rrrright
[08:10] <seb128> rather ;-)
[08:10] <seb128> salut pitti! comment ça va ?
[08:11] <davmor2> willcooke: just drive the vw in a straight line you'll be fine it's small enough not to be affected by the wind.......what do you mean not that Golf there a game too
[08:11] <seb128> pitti, I'm up for a while, just doing quiet email catchups&co until u.k wakes up and IRC starts being active ;-)
[08:11] <pitti> seb128: j'ai encore une rhume, mais ça va, merci
[08:11] <seb128> oh :-(
[08:11] <seb128> repose toi bien !
[08:12] <Sweet5hark1> oh, nous entre l'heure du petit dejeuner francais!
[08:13] <Sweet5hark1> ^^ imagine that with a bad german accent in addition to the broken grammar.
[08:13] <pitti> non, c'est trop tard -- mais bien sûr c'est toujours l'heure de la glace :-P
[08:14] <pitti> I just submitted a talk proposal for FOSDEM
[08:14] <pitti> missed the deadline the last three years, so 2017 it is!
[08:14] <willcooke> davmor2, :))
[08:15] <Laney> oh wow, this is early
[08:15] <Sweet5hark1> all btw: let me repost https://twitter.com/maemst/status/766334568941096960 here because it is such awesome good news.
[08:15] <pitti> Laney: CfP ends in October, so still time; but I don't want to miss it again :)
[08:16] <pitti> Sweet5hark1: PoC ≠ Proof of Concept in this case, I figure?
[08:17] <Sweet5hark1> I mean 863K CHF is some good funding. On can actually solve quite some problems with that amount of money.
[08:17] <pitti> Sweet5hark1: this is a good day to die! err, "to deploy FOSS"!
[08:18] <Sweet5hark1> pitti: I think PoC is proof of concept here. so they actually might add more funds later.
[08:21] <Sweet5hark1> pitti: OTOH they are not commiting to migrating to LibreOffice/Linux with that yet. Just to spend up to 863K CHF to find out if that is workable. IMHO thats good: Its a serious budget and it doesnt say "with this budget you must be completely on FLOSS in the end or its a failure". Just with this budget you must be able to tell us if we should move to FLOSS in the end.
[08:22] <Trevinho> Laney: I would try trunk... Let me see
[08:23] <Trevinho> Morning by the way
[08:23] <seb128> hey Trevinho!
[08:23] <pitti> Sweet5hark1: that sounds workable indeed -- I suppose they want the answer in about a year, so this is like 8 well-paid full-time jobs for a year
[08:23] <pitti> well, "normally paid" for .ch :)
[08:23]  * Sweet5hark1 is willing to tell a lot of folks they should move to FLOSS for 863K CHF.
[08:23] <Sweet5hark1> pitti: yep
[08:24] <Trevinho> seb128: hey, how is it?
[08:24] <seb128> Trevinho, good! you?
[08:25] <Trevinho> seb128: yeah, allright... Although waking up at 5 to watch the beach volley final wasn't a great choice unfortunately :-(
[08:26] <seb128> oh, why, feeling too tired now? or was the match not good?
[08:26] <Trevinho> No, we've lost it 😢
[08:27] <Laney> Trevinho: pretty sure you want https://github.com/hughsie/appstream-glib/commit/1feb3abbe56661d83ee798d9ad98e49cfd525267
[08:29] <Laney> Trevinho: and hi!
[08:29] <Trevinho> Laney: yep, that's the one... Can you backport it?
[08:29] <Trevinho> Laney: Yes... Ciao!! ;-)
[10:45] <ricotz> Sweet5hark1, I doubt this will fix the build failure on yakkety, it is a more subtile break where the envars before the comment as really needed
[11:21] <ricotz> Sweet5hark1, did you got complaints about the removal of systray-support aka quickstart (gtk2 only)?
[11:29] <Sweet5hark1>  ricotz: wrt quickstart: nope. isnt visible on Unity desktops anyway ...
[11:33] <desrt> hihi
[11:33] <desrt> and good morning to all
[11:35] <Laney> hi de$rt
[11:36] <desrt> how did you know that i sold myself to microsoft?
[11:36] <Laney> i was thinking ke$ha
[11:36] <Laney> but that works too
[11:37] <Laney> how's it going?
[11:39] <willcooke> morning desrt
[11:42] <desrt> hello willcooke
[11:47] <ricotz> Sweet5hark1, ok, rene disabled/dropped it with 5.2
[12:07] <seb128> hey desrt
[12:07] <desrt> hello seb
[12:11] <Laney> Trevinho: you can try your unity build again
[12:32] <Guest53425> hi, I need some help with a drive mounting problem, my external hard drive is now mounted with both HDDname and HDDname1 and if I try to open the original it says permission denied
[12:33] <Guest53425> I have some seeding torrents that have paths that point to the HDDname (original) drive, so how could I fix that without having to go through each torrent and manually changing path?
[13:26] <Trevinho> Laney: thanks, it seems to go now
[13:34] <seb128> good for some exercice but the rain starts, bbiab
[13:41] <Laney> Trevinho: nice
[13:58] <ximion> Laney: you *think* you build Unity in Ubuntu?
[13:58] <ximion> how can you not know what you build? :D
[13:58] <Laney> I didn't build it
[13:58] <Laney> Trevinho just told me about it
[13:58] <Laney> (hi!)
[13:58] <ximion> :D
[13:59] <ximion> for some reason hughsie and I simultaneaously decided to throw out bad releases of AppStream :P
[13:59] <ximion> (although I am leading in bug-count right now)
[14:00] <ximion> (yay! :P)
[14:00] <Laney> heh
[14:02] <jibel> cyphermox, can you have a look at bug 1611010, very frequent
[14:04] <cyphermox> jibel: yeah, already aware of it, but it's a complicated issue
[14:05] <ximion> Laney: can't look at NMUs right now, because of $travel, but will do that later
[14:05] <Laney> ximion: can reschedule if you want
[14:06] <Laney> where are you $travelling to?
[14:06] <ximion> to some friends in Bonn (who are visiting the gamescom in Cologne) and then to my parents
[14:07] <Laney> fun
[14:07] <ximion> reschedule might be useful, I would like to have the changes in Git so Git and what's in unstable don't differ
[14:07] <Laney> one of my school friends is posting pictures from the gamescom
[14:08] <ximion> but actually, we could also just let it in and I will import it into Git later
[14:08] <Laney> k, well I attached the git patch to the bug
[14:08] <Laney> unless you have the ACLs on pkg-packagekit set up sensibly (i.e. so DDs can push) :)
[14:08] <ximion> I don't think that's the case
[14:08]  * ximion didn't even create the team
[14:08] <Laney> seems not
[14:10]  * Laney runs dcut ftp-master reschedule -f appstream-glib_0.6.1-1.1_source.changes -d 0
[14:11] <Laney> trying to think how to do this langpack thing in a sensible way btw
[14:11] <Laney> currently thinking of some kind of hook facility
[14:11] <Laney> so backends can add their sauce
[14:21] <ximion> yeah, that is probably the best way to do it
[14:31] <Laney> I wonder how to do it though
[14:31] <Laney> without having to keep lots of things in memory
[14:54] <willcooke> argh
[14:54] <willcooke> this -gtk-scaled thing is horrible
[14:54] <willcooke> I'm going word blind
[14:57] <willcooke> Laney, should I use -gtk-scaled in places like this as well?
[14:57] <willcooke>     border-image: url("assets/backdrop-combobox-button.png") 10 12 10 1 / 10px 12px 10px 1px stretch;
[15:08] <Laney> willcooke: I think you only need it when there's an @2
[15:08] <Laney> but haven't used it myself, so can't be sure
[15:08] <willcooke> right, there is a @2 for that one, but just not sure how to put it togther in that example
[15:08] <willcooke> would it be something like:
[15:09] <willcooke> -gtk-scaled(url("blah",url("blah@2")) 10 12 10 1 / etc
[15:10] <willcooke> also:  is there some kind of checker I can run over these new files, I've gone copy & paste blind and might have missed a few commas etc
[15:10] <Laney> hmm, not sure, probably
[15:10] <Laney> gtk should tell you if there's a syntax error
[15:10] <Laney> if you launch something
[15:15] <Laney> willcooke: thanks for the effort, sorry it's so lame a task
[15:18] <willcooke> Laney, aint no thing.  Happy to be contributing.  It makes for a pleasant change away from slide decks and trello boards
[15:19] <willcooke> I'll give it a go anyway and can undo if it breaks
[15:42] <bschaefer> Trevinho, got a fun looking compiz bug for you
[15:42] <bschaefer> Trevinho, http://i.imgur.com/VSCQZq3.jpg
[15:43] <Trevinho> hey bschaefer
[15:43] <bschaefer> (offset/origin messed up?) Notice the screenshot rendering of the desktop is correct
[15:43] <bschaefer> Trevinho, also hello!
[15:43] <Trevinho> not that fun.. :-)
[15:43] <Trevinho> Mmhmh, hikiko ^ ?
[15:43] <bschaefer> Trevinho, it flashes a bunch
[15:43] <bschaefer> this was the first time it actually *stopped*
[15:44] <bschaefer> but it goes from okay to crazy offset/origins
[15:44] <bschaefer> Trevinho, i assume its late for her
[15:44] <Trevinho> bschaefer: yeah, it should be... but hopefully she'll see the log on monday
[15:44] <bschaefer> cool yeah
[15:44] <Trevinho> but... yeah, is eems some camera issue
[15:44] <Trevinho> bschaefer: how is input going?
[15:45] <bschaefer> Trevinho, doing gamma atm :)
[15:45] <bschaefer> Trevinho, unless i mis understood that question :)
[15:47] <Trevinho> bschaefer: no, I meant.... in your bug :)
[15:47] <bschaefer> Trevinho, haha input is fine
[15:47] <bschaefer> soo if drag the cursor
[15:47] <Trevinho> bschaefer: what you do when you press the corners, is the input respecting what you see or  no?
[15:48] <bschaefer> it stops at the *bottom* of the perceived edge
[15:49] <bschaefer> Trevinho, the input behaves as if the rendering is the correct region (ie. if i move my cursor to the bottom of the hardware it goes to the top)
[15:49] <bschaefer> as if its still in the screen
[15:49] <bschaefer> Trevinho, ive had this happen with and with out workspaces
[15:49] <bschaefer> on yakkety
[15:49] <bschaefer> (two different intel machines)
[15:50] <Trevinho> bschaefer: is that happening always=?
[15:50] <Trevinho> I mean, do you have a way to reproduce it?
[15:50] <bschaefer> Trevinho, no it happens randomly sadly :(
[15:50] <Trevinho> a specific one... or just it happens?
[15:50] <Trevinho> mh
[15:50] <bschaefer> seems to happen when typing...
[15:50] <bschaefer> or opeing a menu
[15:50] <bschaefer> or switching workspaces (but doesnt need to have those for it)
[16:15]  * Trevinho after winning another battle with a new x11/gtk race, calls this a week...
[16:15] <Trevinho> have a nice WE everyone
[16:15] <bschaefer> Trevinho, have a good weekend!
[16:15] <Trevinho> thanks bschaefer, you too
[16:16] <willcooke> cya Trevinho
[16:27] <willcooke> Ubiquity in Y has lost the right alignment of the "skip" box when copying files.
[16:27] <willcooke> Known issue?  Maybe because of theme work?
[16:28] <seb128> Trevinho, have a nice w.e!
[16:28] <seb128> Trevinho, just being curious but what bug was that?
[16:29] <seb128> willcooke, not know afaik and likely gtk/theming yes
[16:29] <seb128> screenshot?
[16:31] <willcooke> seb128, it'll have to wait to next week now, up to my shoulders in hidpi copy & paste hell. :)
[16:31] <seb128> good luck with that... and thanks for working on it!
[16:32] <willcooke> but basically, the "skip" box is now tagged on the end of the text and moves backwards and forwards as the string lengths change
[16:32] <willcooke> seb128, I'm winning on the theme.  Just got some more 3.0 to do and then on to 3.2
[16:32] <seb128> I see what you mean, I wonder if that's really new
[16:32] <seb128> :-)
[16:32] <willcooke> then I need to run it through a parser or something to find all the typos I made and fix them :)
[16:33] <seb128> oh, Laney send the ff email, official now
[16:33] <seb128> we should start making a list of things we didn't manage to land and might want
[16:33] <seb128> like new gstreamer
[16:33] <seb128> new gnome-software?
[16:34] <seb128> superm1 hey, was there any discussion with robert_ancell about updating fwupd? I guess that blocked on updating g-s? we couldn't backport that work if we don't update g-s?
[16:34] <superm1> seb128: i'm missing context here
[16:36] <seb128> superm1, sorry, I'm mostly wondering why is "there is a fix upstream"  for months but we don't get the version with the fix
[16:36] <superm1> this in relation to xenial or yakkety?  and to a particular issue to solve?
[16:36] <seb128> bug #1589585
[16:36] <superm1> ahh
[16:36] <seb128> and we just hit ff
[16:36] <seb128> I was sort of hoping somebody would update before ff
[16:36] <seb128> that's the context ;-)
[16:37] <superm1> thanks
[16:37] <superm1> so no concern on my side uploading a newer fwupd to yakkety
[16:37] <superm1> i was actually planning to do that once 0.7.3 is released
[16:37] <seb128> I assumed you didn't do it for a reason
[16:37] <superm1> but will be blocked by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsmbios
[16:37] <seb128> I though the reason was that it needed g-s 3.22 and we still have 20
[16:38] <superm1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsmbios/+bug/1603072
[16:38] <superm1> sorry that
[16:38] <seb128> ah ok
[16:38] <seb128> it's assigned to jdstrand
[16:38] <seb128> jdstrand, ^ is that MIR on your backlog?
[16:39] <seb128> superm1, do you think we could backport the fix the usb thing to 0.7 otherwise? would be nice to get in the LTS in any case
[16:39] <superm1> seb128: it is a pretty big change
[16:40] <superm1> seb128: i would rather bring the whole newer version of fwupd to LTS than try to backport just that change
[16:40] <seb128> k
[16:40] <seb128> but that needs new depends apparently
[16:40] <superm1> well that's for a different reason, but yes
[16:40] <superm1> lots of things going on in parallel really
[16:41] <superm1> the newer fwupd can flash non ESRT UEFI devices like TPM and docks
[16:42] <superm1> but so i think the order of events i'm hoping can pan out:
[16:42] <superm1> 1) that MIR is approved
[16:42] <superm1> 2) newer fwupd is released
[16:42] <superm1> 3) upload newer fwupd to yakkety
[16:42] <superm1> 4) upload newer g-s to yakkety
[16:42] <superm1> 5) bake all that and when it's known to be good backport to LTS
[16:42] <superm1> and that will solve that issue, add teh support for the extra devices in one swoop
[16:42] <seb128> that sounds like a good plan to me ;-)
[16:43] <seb128> we might need some ffe for that though
[16:44] <superm1> i had no idea it would take jdstrand this long on the MIR
[16:45] <superm1> otherwise I would have been pushing for the newer fwupd release upstream and get this ball rolling sooner
[16:45] <seb128> yeah, things are a bit crazy with snappy for him
[16:46] <seb128> and MIR teams is sort of DoS-ed atm with unity8 stack reviews
[16:46] <superm1> can it be assigned to someone else who's got the cycles maybe?
[16:50] <jdstrand> what mir?
[16:50] <jdstrand> if it is assigned to me, that is wrong
[16:50] <superm1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsmbios/+bug/1603072
[16:50] <superm1> mterry assigned it
[16:51]  * mterry looks
[16:51] <jdstrand> it should go to ubuntu-security
[16:51] <mterry> yeah that's fine
[16:52] <jdstrand> so then ratliff and or ty hicks can get it assigned
[17:01] <Laney> night!
[17:02] <seb128> Laney, have a nice w.e!
[17:02] <Laney> and you
[17:02]  * Laney is going to go fly his spaceship around
[17:22] <willcooke> seb128, fyi I think I'm about half way through now:  https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/hidpiicons
[17:23] <willcooke> tried to push at logical intervals so that we can unpick the broken stuff more easily ;)
[17:25] <seb128> great
[17:33] <seb128> k, enough for this week
[17:33] <willcooke> ditto
[17:34] <seb128> have a nice w.e desktopers!
[17:34] <willcooke> have a good one!
[17:34] <willcooke> night all
[18:59] <superm1> Laney: since you're uploading in debian, would you mind including the patches for appstream-glib referenced at the end of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/appstream-glib/+bug/1591868 ?
[19:00] <superm1> they need to be SRU'ed into xenial too


[00:16] <ruben23> sarnold: hi there
[00:17] <sarnold> evening ruben23
[00:18] <ruben23> sarnold: im so sorry i forgot to take note of teh substitute of apt-get install linux-headers-server in Ubuntu server 18.04 lts, what was that again if you dont mind, really sorry
[00:22] <sarnold> ruben23: linux-headers-generic
[00:24] <ruben23> ;-) Thanks a lotr
[00:27] <sarnold> you're welcome :)
[05:33] <adol-christin> hello i need help
[05:33] <adol-christin> getting my domain to work on my ubuntu dedi server
[05:44] <adol-christin> i played with host names and it kinda kept crashing the server over and over
[06:18] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:18] <lordievader> adol-christin: What kind of domain are you referring to? DNS domain, AD domain?
[06:19] <adol-christin> dns domain got it from google domains
[06:19] <adol-christin> and good morning to you too :)
[06:20] <lordievader> What is the actual problem?
[06:20] <adol-christin> well how do i get it to communcate to my dedi server
[06:20] <adol-christin> can i show a screen of how i configured it
[06:21] <lordievader> !paste
[06:21] <adol-christin> https://gyazo.com/7af911fd6493e23dbf1c777df89375cd
[06:21] <adol-christin> screen image and i changed stuff on my last ubuntu os on local host but that just constatly crashed the server over and over
[06:22] <adol-christin> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPqDQX5naHA
[06:22] <adol-christin> i found this one
[06:22] <adol-christin> tutorial that is.
[06:23] <adol-christin> i edited /etc/hosts/
[06:24] <adol-christin> and added my domain too it <IP_ADDRESS> aetherdreams.com and another line with <IP_ADDRESS> www.aetherdreams.com
[06:25] <adol-christin> but that seemed to crash ubuntu over and over after doing that
[06:25] <adol-christin> do u kno why it would do this?
[06:31] <lordievader> Brr, you don't want to do that.
[06:31] <lordievader> <IP_ADDRESS> is a representation for the entire network.
[06:31] <adol-christin> oh so the youtuber is a retard?
[06:32] <lordievader> That said, since you are setting up DNS you don't want to be editing your hosts file since it defeats the purpose.
[06:32] <lordievader> Youtube is rarely good for these kind of things.
[06:32] <adol-christin> so what do i do to get apache to work with my domain name?
[06:32] <lordievader> You rather want to read manual pages, rfc's or tutorials of known good sources.
[06:33] <adol-christin> know any links too it?
[06:33] <lordievader> You first want to fix your DNS setup, currently I get an NXDOMAIN on www.aetherdreams.com.
[06:34] <adol-christin> so did u see my screen shot i sent?
[06:34] <lordievader> Then once www.a.c points to the IP address of the server you can tell Apache that its servername www.aetherdreams.com
[06:34] <lordievader> Yes
[06:34] <adol-christin> i watched a youtube vid on google domains i did what they said
[06:35] <adol-christin> Do you know what i did wrong?
[06:36] <lordievader> The description reads 'glue records', this is not what you want. You want to change the regular records.
[06:37] <blackflow> adol-christin: you need to stop messing around with public DNS and public servers until you know what you're doing.
[06:38] <adol-christin> https://gyazo.com/58e99bc995c19a7638f5b1c704f30f6d
[06:38] <lordievader> +1 to that, first figure out how things work before diving in.
[06:38] <adol-christin> as i said last night ive done with other domain servers and it was piss easy but this one never used it before
[06:38] <lordievader> I.e. read documentation
[06:38] <lordievader> Perhaps even RFCs to figure things out.
[06:38] <adol-christin> RFCs?
[06:39] <blackflow> adol-christin: no, you don't know what you're doing. please stop messing with  public infrastructure, you'll cause damage to someone.
[06:39] <adol-christin> how can u be sure ill cause damage to someone?
[06:40] <blackflow> Set up a VM and do it all on your VM, in your LAN, learn all the things and concepts first.
[06:40] <lotuspsychje> adol-christin: setting up servers needs basic knowledge, you cant just random do things
[06:40] <blackflow> adol-christin: becase in 20+ years of my experience I've seen it many times. noob setups getting pwned by bots and starting ddos attacks and other illicit things. open email relays. open dns resolvers....
[06:41] <lotuspsychje> adol-christin: did you read the server manuals we gave you last night?
[06:41] <blackflow> Set up a VM and learn things in that first. Folks here will be delighted to help with specific questions about that (after you've read required docs and tried yourself first).
[06:41] <adol-christin> no i passed out
[06:41] <adol-christin> can u resend it
[06:41] <lotuspsychje> !server | start here
[06:42] <lotuspsychje> adol-christin: before going to production, try the VM advice blackflow provided
[06:42] <blackflow> in addition to this, Digital Ocean has plenty of useful How-To articles on server applications and configurations. Google is your best friend there.
[06:43] <blackflow> for example, like this:  https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=how+to+set+up+apache+site%3Adigitalocean.com
[06:44] <adol-christin> ah i see they gave me the wrong installation of it >_<
[06:45] <adol-christin> its not server edition just regular ubuntu for some reason
[06:45] <lordievader> Of what?
[06:45] <lordievader> That doesn't really matter.
[06:45] <lotuspsychje> 'they'?
[06:45] <blackflow> lordievader: it might if there's no GPU which was suggested yesterday as cause of crashes.
[06:45] <lordievader> The point is, that you need to learn things (read, try out in isolation, etc) first before putting things into production.
[06:46] <adol-christin> will u help me once i learn?
[06:46] <blackflow> Sure, if you have specific questions, pertaining to Ubuntu, we're all ears here.
[06:47] <lordievader> Like blackflow said, if you put in the effort we are willing to answer questions, sure.
[06:47] <lotuspsychje> adol-christin: ubuntu server is also a responsible task, at some point you will need to be on your own too
[06:49] <blackflow> and you'll need to know how to fix things over ssh only. running rescue environments, mounting your main installation's disks to fix broken boots, that's also important experience for running remote servers.
[06:49] <blackflow> who's "they" btw? which hosting company are you renting that behemoth server from?
[07:43] <huehner> Hello, seeing very strange apache2 behavior on bionic (2.4.29-1ubuntu4.7) with latest updates (regression fix for openssl1.1.1)
[07:44] <huehner> apache freshly restarted -> do a run of ssllabs.com/ssltest against it and 2 apache2 processes stuck at 100% apparently indefinitely
[08:28] <huehner> andol: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/1836329 -> regression in 4.6 -> 4.7 in LTS :(
[08:59] <andol> huehner: Why me?
[09:01] <huehner> andol: bad fingers on my side (was unintended), sry
[09:09] <andol> No worries.
[10:43] <ruben23> hi there guys where do i configure the my.cnf when i used MariaDB10.2 its quite different now from MariaDb5.5
[10:43] <ruben23> any idea guys.?
[14:24] <mTeK> Without gasoline and a match how would you diagnose a port flap using DAC's in bond to mlagged switches. It starts happening after 8 days after a reboot... I've changed firmware on cards, installed driver as dkms as manufacture says, changed kernels, changed DAC cable manufactures.
[14:25] <mTeK> It's randomly after 8 days happening on 4 servers. These 4 servers are some older supermicro's. I wouldn't think it would be the motherboard or pcie slot issue. The flap is only on one of the DAC's, the other interface seem stable but it's on a different switch.
[14:25] <mTeK> I'm thinking next step is to create more mlagged interfaces and move the servers into the new port channels to see if it's the first 4 ports of this switch.
[14:25] <mTeK> If that doesn't solve it should I change OS or nic cards next?
[14:31] <tomreyn> maybe increase log verbosity on the module (if available), see if there are power saving options there you can disable
[14:58] <mTeK> Your talking about nic power settings and not server governers?
[15:08] <tomreyn> mTeK: yes, but i really have 0 experience with DAC, should have said so.
[15:08] <tomreyn> switching governors might also be worth a try, sure.
[15:09] <mTeK> I use them quite a lot and I have the same cards in others servers using the same network config and they are working.
[15:09] <mTeK> There are power settings on the mellanox cards.
[15:09] <mTeK> I'm not even sure if the server or the switch side that's dropping
[15:10] <mTeK> The switches are arista and since I didn't buy them new I have no support from them.
[15:13] <tomreyn> aaw crap. they can do good enough logging though. or port mirroring.
[15:13] <tomreyn> at least the non entry models
[15:14] <mTeK> They are DCS 7150  so not entry level.
[15:21] <mTeK> ceph is pretty resiliant as long as the server goes offline, it doesn't like the bouncing ethernets.
[15:22] <mTeK> I think there is a timeout command that I can set on the bouncing on the switch. That way once it starts it will hold the port offline till the timer clears.
[15:23] <tomreyn> maybe you can do flap detection and fencing near the source instead.
[15:23] <tomreyn> actually your approach may be better
[15:33] <mTeK> Well I think that is how it works...
[15:39] <mTeK> Here is a paste of the logs https://pastebin.com/s13dDb68
[17:58] <teward> anyone with an 18.04 machine successfully configured a Bridge on their system with Netplan that lets the system itself have Internet and be reachable, but also allow cintainers such as LXD containers to use the bridge to get DHCP addresses too?
[17:59] <sdeziel> teward: I think so, let me check if I have something to share
[18:03] <sdeziel> teward: correction, I'm using a different bridge for the host and separated bridges for my lxd containers. That may still be useful to look at for you though https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/M6wwcMXTkR/
[18:03] <teward> sdeziel: thanks.  running into some headaches with macvlan on LXD by default.  The headache I have is that it's being derp with the containers behind
[18:03] <teward> maybe because VMware's involved it's eating packets...
[18:04] <teward> might mess with it later right now I just need to get this damn mail server set up >.<  *uses straight NAT for reasons in the interim*
[18:04] <sdeziel> teward: macvlan is annoying to deal with
[18:04] <teward> yes, it is
[18:04] <teward> so is VMware promiscuous mode eating packets from the host
[18:04] <sdeziel> because the host needs also a macvlan device if you want it to talk with your containers?
[18:04] <sdeziel> s/\?$//
[18:05] <teward> i don't need host -> container I just need Network <--> Container
[18:05] <teward> and container is making DHCP requests
[18:05] <teward> but they're not getting to the virtual firewall;
[18:05] <teward> so IDK what's up there
[18:05]  * teward will mess with that later
[18:06] <sdeziel> teward: with macvlan, your containers will show up with a new MAC when they get to VMWare so maybe you need to allow this virtual NIC to have more than 1 MAC
[18:06] <teward> not sure that's doable, but promiscuous mode and accept mac changes is enabled
[18:06] <teward> but VMware's having a hell of a time with it
[18:06] <teward> so IDK
[18:06] <teward> i'll mess with that in a separate VM later for testing
[18:06] <teward> FOR NOW
[18:06] <teward> I'm just going to straight NAT the container ports to the host
[18:06] <teward> and vice versa
[19:22] <lordcirth> Ok, this is weird. Brand new 18.04 LXC container, from the download template. If I try to start salt-minion, ssh, or postfix, they say "Job for salt-minion.service canceled."
[19:23] <teward> lordcirth: did you check syslog or other logging mechanisms to see why it explodified?  :p
[19:23] <lordcirth> teward, still hunting. I rebooted it, and now "systemctl start salt-minion" returns "Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory"
[19:23] <lordcirth> As does 'status' so it's not salt-specific
[19:24] <teward> well salt I think there's known problems with
[19:24] <teward> but i was more curious about ssh and postfix
[19:24] <lordcirth> teward, ssh does the same
[19:24] <lordcirth> Also FYI this is the repo.saltstack.com salt
[19:25] <lordcirth> And I did have a problem earlier where one of my salt states tried to set the timezone, which apparently doesn't work in containers
[19:25] <lordcirth> Because timedatectl doesn't work
[19:27] <lordcirth> I'll rebuild the container.
[19:29] <sarnold> that sounds like super-unhappy dbus
[19:29] <teward> ^
[19:29] <teward> sarnold: but wouldn't that have a global effect rather than a container-specific problem?
[19:29] <teward> or is it possible there's apparmor isolation going on?
[19:30] <sarnold> rebuilding the container will be a pretty good indicator, I hope
[19:31] <lordcirth> I have this exact container setup running elsewhere, so it has to be something changed recently
[19:35] <lordcirth> ok, I made the container again, ssh was running. Installed salt-minion, accepted key, rebooted
[19:35] <lordcirth> ssh and salt-minion came up
[19:35] <sarnold> yay! but .. bummer to not Know what the problem was
[19:36] <lordcirth> Well, I'm not done applying the states yet.
[19:36] <lordcirth> Doing them in parts this time
[21:10] <lordcirth> I have a suspicion that linux-generic-hwe-18.04 getting installed in the container is what borked it
[21:11] <sarnold> hmm. any chance you've got a working container, can install that, and break your container?
[21:13] <lordcirth> The kernel package was installed by Salt after container init, so I'm trying now with that package commented
[21:13] <sarnold> aha
[21:14] <lordcirth> Previously all ceph clients were physical, so I forgot that it would install hwe
[21:20] <lordcirth> ahah, no, that didn't fix it. But commenting out an entry I put in /etc/fstab did
[21:21] <lordcirth> So I bet it's an apparmor profile issue
[21:23] <lordcirth> But I did it in an identical container earlier!
[21:44] <lordcirth> Ok, I got it to work by setting lxc.mount.entry properly and leaving /etc/fstab empty


[12:51] <j1mc> hm, i think that a link done up like this may work: <ulink url="ubuntu/serverguide/&language;/index.html">HTML</ulink>
[12:51] <j1mc> the '&language' part would allow for the different translations to be handled correctly.
[12:51] <j1mc> at least i think so.
[01:55] <Ubotu> New bug: #139246 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Suspend help files are outdated" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139246
[01:56] <oldmanstan> oh no ubotu, a bug! you should probably get on fixing that you lazy bot
[10:34] <fijam> hello
[12:20] <slytherin> Do i need to file a bug to indicate a minor change in the documentation?
[12:33] <bhuvan__> stytherin: you can. or, you can indicate that in the mailing list preferably with a tentative patch
[12:43] <shriphani__> hmm i took up the fluxbox docs... (well I don't know if i really did, I am writing them atm). do you think users will understand if i say that the slit is where swallowed apps go ?
[10:44] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: sbalneav * r4358 edubuntu/handbook/C/server.xml: Added section on autologin, some minor cleanups
[10:46] <sbalneav> \o/  Finished the handbook!
[10:58] <nixternal> awesome
[10:59] <nixternal> I need to hurry and make some fixes to Kubuntu
[10:59] <nixternal> I hate not having the time right now
[11:00] <sbalneav> I can't believe I made string freeze.
[11:01] <nixternal> heh, I didn't...but what else is new
[11:01] <nixternal> I still have about 8 hours according to my clock though :)
[11:15] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4359 /trunk/ (20 files in 20 dirs): this should be it for Kubuntu - string freeze in effect
[11:15] <nixternal> yay!
[11:16] <mdke> nixternal: sbalneav: freezes strike at the end of the previous day :p
[11:17] <nixternal> shhh
[11:17] <mdke> but well done
[11:17] <nixternal> hehe
[11:17] <nixternal> I think all I really had to do was just regen the pot files
[11:17] <sbalneav> Well, I just corrected some spelling misteaks, so we'll call those bugfixes :)
[11:17] <nixternal> and I added one contributor for helping out with Kubuntu docs
[11:18] <nixternal> I would have been totally done last week, but my internet provider decided our area didn't need the internet
[11:51] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r4360 ubuntu/ (10 files in 10 dirs):
[11:51] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: Adding omf files for those documents which don't have one; updating
[11:51] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: "get-pot.sh" script accordingly
[11:54] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r4361 ubuntu/ (19 files in 19 dirs): refreshing pot files


[08:41] <Sarvatt> yep xserver-xorg-video-intel 2.7.1 rc1 is working great here. here's my results vs phoronix's from the other day http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/index.php?k=profile&u=robert-27839-18675-31010
[15:27] <Sarvatt> not looking so hot there in KMS/UXA - http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/index.php?k=profile&u=robert-26126-19706-24854
[15:53] <Duke`_> since we have mesa 7.5 in xorg-edgers, is Gallium 3D used for intel hardware?
[19:09] <bryce> Sarvatt: bugger, where's that magical performance boost we're supposed to get?
[20:37] <tjaalton> Duke`_: no, gallium is not built by default, and I doubt the driver is useful yet


[09:50] <chrisccoulson> nice, xulrunner is demoted to universe now \o/
[21:32] <BUGabundo> evening
[21:40] <fta> chrisccoulson, ever seen something like this? bug 765087
[21:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 765087 in chromium-browser ""403 VirusFound" messages from chromium-daily PPA on apt-get upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/765087
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> fta - hmm, no, i've never seen anything like that before
[21:56] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, there?
[21:56] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: hey, what's up?
[21:57] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, i just got asked to take a look at bug 765736, which looks like it's a thunderbird bug (see my last comment)
[21:57] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 765736 in unity "Thunderbird won't stay in launcher and no quicklist" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/765736
[21:57] <chrisccoulson> do you have any idea why WM_CLASS might need to be translated? (or if there is any issue with me just making that non-translatable)
[21:57] <m_conley> examining...
[21:57] <chrisccoulson> we need the WM_CLASS property on the thunderbird windows to match the value in its desktop file for all locales, but it currently doesn't
[21:58] <chrisccoulson> and that breaks launcher matching
[21:58] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: hrm...not sure why we'd want that translated....
[21:58] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: Standard8 might know
[21:59] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: let's ask him.  :)
[21:59] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, if i run tbird with english locale, I get WM_CLASS="Thunderbird", but for italian I get WM_CLASS="Mozilla Thunderbird"
[21:59] <chrisccoulson> which is a problem :)


[00:30] <cymerej> Hello. Anyone there who can answer a quick question? I installed Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 5 (Hammerhead) a few months ago and haven't touched it since then.  I booted it up today and it is asking for a security PIN. I can't remember what I set for the PIN so I can't access the phone.  How do I recover the PIN or reet the device back to default?
[00:36] <OerHeks>  A factory reset of the phone will not reset your PIN-code as that is the code to your SIM card ...
[00:36] <OerHeks> that will need that PUK code that comes with your sim module
[00:37] <ahoneybun> there would not be a SIM Lock by default
[00:38] <ahoneybun> a reset with ubuntu-device-flash without the -wipe option would be the best bet
[00:38] <ahoneybun> cymerej: ^
[00:38] <ahoneybun> but that is supported by ubports now
[00:57] <cymerej> Thanks ahoneybun.   I found this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Components but for a lot of the projects, the links are kinda useless. "gallery-app must be configured in order for Launchpad to forward bugs to the project's developers." for example.
[07:15] <black_puppydog> so, where would I look for bugs in the official gallery app?
[07:53] <black_puppydog> hmmm, anyone here?
[09:23] <popey> black_puppydog: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers has better links
[09:24] <popey> black_puppydog: will get the components page fixed
[10:33] <mimecar> good morning
[10:36] <popey> hi
[10:36] <mimecar> hi popey
[20:33] <matv1> there it is. pmcgowan has just been exposed as a dragonballz character himself on omgubuntu
[20:34] <matv1> i must say i always suspected something
[21:02] <OerHeks> hmmm midori, could this be android 6 ? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/06/new-ubuntu-phone-rumor-midori
[21:03] <black_puppydog> hey, anyone alive here? running into some trouble on my nexus 5 (hammerhead).
[21:04] <black_puppydog> I can't share or select anything. basically I'd want to send an image from inside dekko/telegram (select from gallery or file manager) or share from inside the gallery or file manager (select telegram or email)
[21:04] <black_puppydog> is that a known problem?
[21:05] <black_puppydog> like, the "select app" screen comes up, I go to e.g. the gallery, select an image, but then there's no buttons except the "back" button...
[21:07] <black_puppydog> the other way around, I am in the gallery, want to share, select dekko or telegram, telegram opens, but nothing happens...
[22:34] <black_puppydog> hmmm... actually, not sure if this is working at all... is there anyone here with a nexus 5?


[06:43] <YoBoY> bonjour
[11:35] <Silverlion> hey there
[17:05] <Silverlion> hi everyone around the globe. hope u're doing great ;)
[17:51] <Silverlion> re


[01:11]  * thumper needs food badly
[02:43] <thumper> davecheney: hi there
[02:43] <davecheney> thumper: ack
[02:43] <thumper> davecheney: I'm busy refactoring some config.Config stuff
[02:43] <davecheney> noice
[02:44] <thumper> and we have identical code in all three provider specific configs
[02:44] <thumper> around setting the default firewall mode to instance
[02:44] <davecheney> i would not doubt it
[02:44] <thumper> do you think we'll always do that?
[02:44] <davecheney> copy pasta is copy pasta
[02:44] <thumper> if so, I can move the code up
[02:44] <davecheney> i think it was highlighted in austin that we should do a better job of refactoring out the common provider stuffs
[02:44] <thumper> kk
[02:44]  * thumper moves it
[02:45] <davecheney> sgtm
[04:03] <thumper> set-environment command review request incoming
[04:10] <thumper> Rietveld: https://codereview.appspot.com/8610043
[04:48]  * thumper has to run daughter to sports
[04:48] <thumper> bbl
[04:51] <davecheney> bigjools: looks like the raring 2.2.4 works fine on precise
[04:51] <davecheney> well
[04:51] <davecheney> precise/i386 so far
[04:55] <bigjools> davecheney: good news
[04:56] <davecheney> damn skippy
[04:56] <davecheney> otherwise we'd be royally fooked
[04:56]  * bigjools is this -><- close to deploying a charm with the new maas provider
[04:57] <bigjools> what out of Ports/OpenPorts/ClosePorts needs implementing?
[04:59] <davecheney> bigjools: depends, how do firewalls work in Maas ?
[04:59] <bigjools> davecheney: what firewalls? :)
[04:59] <bigjools> none of this was implemented in the Python version
[04:59] <bigjools> but I am unsure how it works in Go
[05:00] <davecheney> bigjools: then i'd say you have 0 work to do
[05:00] <bigjools> well I see a panic in the jujud log
[05:00] <bigjools> one of our "not implemented" messages
[05:00] <davecheney> ok, so change that to return nil :)
[05:00] <bigjools> so something is calling one of them
[05:00] <bigjools> furry muff
[05:01] <davecheney> the firewaller (runs inside the provisioning agent) will do that whenever a new machine appears
[05:02]  * bigjools hacks
[05:03] <bigjools> davecheney: what about Ports()
[05:03] <davecheney> that is only used by the status command
[05:04] <davecheney> and i'm not even sure we show the value of Ports()
[05:04] <davecheney> just return an empty slice
[05:04] <bigjools> ok
[05:19] <davecheney> bigjools: i need help
[05:19] <davecheney> https://launchpad.net/~juju/+archive/experimental/+packages
[05:19] <davecheney> ^ I have copied the pacakge as Precise
[05:19] <davecheney> but I cannot repeat the process for Quantal
[05:20] <bigjools> what are you copying for quantal, the exact same source?
[05:20] <davecheney> yes
[05:20] <davecheney> well
[05:20] <davecheney> no
[05:20] <bigjools> ah yes I see the error
[05:21] <bigjools> you need to copy the one *in* the PPA to a new series
[05:21] <bigjools> with binaries
[05:21] <davecheney> ok, i'll try that
[05:22] <bigjools> pool-based repos mean that you can't have more than one copy of a particular version
[05:22] <davecheney> nope
[05:22] <davecheney> no jot
[05:22] <davecheney> joy
[05:23] <bigjools> let me try
[05:23] <bigjools> you want 2.2.4-0ubuntu1 in quantal?
[05:23] <davecheney> yes
[05:23] <davecheney> the plan is to use this PPA for P and Q
[05:24] <davecheney> and the archive for R
[05:25] <bigjools> there you go
[05:26] <bigjools> you forgot to check "include binaries" I expect
[05:27] <davecheney> no, that was deliberate
[05:27] <davecheney> Copy options: (tick) Rebuild the copied sources
[05:28] <davecheney> oh well
[05:28] <davecheney> fuickit
[05:28] <davecheney> if quantal is broken that will only give more weight to fixing this properly
[05:29] <davecheney> i can't wait til the gmail move
[05:29] <davecheney> getting away from thunderbirds fucked up search
[05:30] <bigjools> gmail has plenty of other problems
[05:30] <davecheney> don't care
[05:30] <davecheney> thunderbird is terrible
[05:30] <bigjools> t'bird is a crock these days
[05:30] <bigjools> but then all email clients are quite frankly
[05:30] <davecheney> yeah, what is with that
[05:30] <bigjools> I haven't used a good one for at least 5 years
[05:30] <davecheney> every man and his dog is writing a web framework or a mobile operating system
[05:30] <bigjools> then all tend towards shite
[05:30] <davecheney> but no love for IMAP
[05:30] <davecheney> what gives
[05:31] <bigjools> IMAP in tbird is the only reason I use it
[05:31] <bigjools> it's very solid
[05:31] <davecheney> my favorite tbird feature is the way it burns your nuts while running your CPU at 100%
[05:32]  * bigjools guffaws
[05:32] <bigjools> my favourite is the default setting to download all of your email that you have, even if it's gigs and gigs
[05:32] <davecheney> COME GET SOME!!
[05:49] <bigjools> is there an easy way to replace the tools on a bootstrap node without re-bootstrapping?
[05:50] <bigjools> my TDD cycle is a tad long
[05:52] <thumper> bigjools: technically
[05:52] <thumper> bigjools: you could do an upgrade --upload-tools
[05:52] <thumper> but I've not tried it
[05:53] <bigjools> thumper: well I'll give it a go next time, I have nothing to lose (literally).  Ta.
[06:01] <davecheney> lucky(~/src/launchpad.net/juju-core) % juju status
[06:01] <davecheney> machines:
[06:01] <davecheney>   "0":
[06:01] <davecheney>     agent-version: 1.9.14
[06:01] <davecheney>     dns-name: ec2-54-253-21-192.ap-southeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com
[06:01] <davecheney>     instance-id: i-295d9914
[06:02] <davecheney> services: {}
[06:02] <davecheney> it worked!
[06:02] <davecheney> no tarball in site
[06:02] <davecheney> sight
[06:02] <davecheney> Get:14 http://ppa.launchpad.net/juju/experimental/ubuntu/ precise/main mongodb-server amd64 1:2.2.4-0ubuntu1 [5137 kB]
[06:02] <davecheney> Fetched 32.9 MB in 37s (880 kB/s)
[06:07] <thumper> \o/
[06:13] <davecheney> ubuntu@ip-10-248-69-6:~$ tail -f /var/log/juju/unit-mysql-0.log
[06:13] <davecheney> /bin/sh: 1: exec: /var/lib/juju/tools/unit-mysql-0/jujud: not found
[06:13] <davecheney> /bin/sh: 1: exec: /var/lib/juju/tools/unit-mysql-0/jujud: not found
[06:13] <davecheney> /bin/sh: 1: exec: /var/lib/juju/tools/unit-mysql-0/jujud: not found
[06:13] <davecheney> /bin/sh: 1: exec: /var/lib/juju/tools/unit-mysql-0/jujud: not found
[06:13] <davecheney> somethign is borken
[07:30] <rogpeppe> mornin' all
[08:34] <rogpeppe> fwereade: you've got a review: https://codereview.appspot.com/8604043/
[08:40] <fwereade> rogpeppe, thanks, good ideas
[08:40] <rogpeppe> fwereade: cool
[08:40] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I originally called it "exclude" and then though "hell, it's really set difference" but happy to change back
[08:41] <rogpeppe> fwereade: for me, set difference could work either way. "Without" might be good too.
[08:41] <rogpeppe> fwereade: (i mean that x.Difference(y) could mean x - y or y - x)
[08:42] <rogpeppe> (or even (x - y) union (y - x)
[08:42] <rogpeppe> )
[09:28] <mattyw> has anyone seen an issue with juju-core leaving a single volume in aws after a juju destroy-environment? I've got no useful debug yet but it's happened twice
[09:41] <rogpeppe> mattyw: i haven't seen that issue, but i usually have loads of s3 garbage so i wouldn't notice
[09:46] <fwereade> mattyw, I don't think it's meant to delete your control-bucket, just to clear its contents
[09:48] <fwereade> mattyw, iirc bucket existence consistency is even more eventual than the rest of s3 and it became a hassle when spinning a single env up/down
[09:48] <fwereade> mattyw, but that recollection does not have a high degree of confidence attached
[09:49] <fwereade> mattyw, but if destroy-environment leaves any files in the control bucket, or any relevant instances not stopping/terminated, I think that's a bug
[09:51] <dimitern> fwereade: I think it does leave stuff in the bucket after the live tests at least
[09:59] <mattyw> fwereade, dimitern next time it happens I'll see if there's anything the bucket - if there's stuff there shall I raise a bug?
[10:12] <rogpeppe> fwereade, mattyw: it does try to delete the bucket.
[10:13] <fwereade> rogpeppe, ah, ok
[10:13] <fwereade> rogpeppe, if that fails, destroy-environment should fail too, right?
[10:13] <rogpeppe> fwereade: yes
[10:14] <rogpeppe> fwereade: have you got time for a quick G+ call?
[10:15] <fwereade> sure, would you start it please?
[10:15] <rogpeppe> fwereade: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7e115006bcf50750316f3b966eb0825d1c263baf?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
[10:32] <TheMue> lunchtime
[10:56] <dimitern> so now with one not lgtm from dave and 2 lgtms already on https://codereview.appspot.com/8561044/, I cannot land it or any of the next 4 CLs depending on it, until we cleared up the misunderstanding..
[11:10] <dimitern> hey, what do you know :) dave responded and it's now fine, I'll submit it shortly
[11:11] <dimitern> fwereade: when's the kanban meeting? at 16h daily?
[11:11] <fwereade> dimitern, I think it's 1615 now
[11:11] <dimitern> fwereade: oh, i see, cheers
[11:11] <fwereade> dimitern, or it might be anyway, I'm not quite clear
[11:12] <dimitern> fwereade: I'll start attending from today
[11:12] <rogpeppe> fwereade: back to 1600 now
[11:12] <fwereade> dimitern, cool
[11:12] <fwereade> rogpeppe, ah ok, thanks
[11:12] <rogpeppe> fwereade: just checking: there's no get-environment command (or equivalent) in pyjuju, right?
[11:12] <fwereade> rogpeppe, there's "look at environments.yaml"
[11:13] <rogpeppe> fwereade: :-)
[11:13] <rogpeppe> fwereade: just wondering about compatibility issues
[11:13] <dimitern> fwereade, rogpeppe: re get/set environment - shouldn't it be "get" and "set" rather than "get-environment" and "set-environment" ?
[11:13] <fwereade> dimitern, discussed in atlanta: env config and service settings are different realms
[11:13] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i agree. but there's an argument that says that they're different enough to require different commands
[11:13] <dimitern> fwereade: so get/set will be for service config only
[11:14] <fwereade> dimitern, as opposed to env constraints and service constraints, which interact closely
[11:14] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah
[11:14] <dimitern> fwereade: so the the service it'll be "juju get <svc> [<value>]" ?
[11:15] <fwereade> dimitern, I think it already is
[11:15] <rogpeppe> dimitern: juju get doesn't provide a way to get a specific key
[11:17] <dimitern> fwereade: I see, although I lean towards having a single command (get/set) one with service, another without - why having separate ones necessarily better?
[11:18] <fwereade> dimitern, that's my own personal preference as well, but we agreed otherwise in atlanta
[11:18] <fwereade> dimitern, but different realms imply potentially different options, different output formats, etc
[11:19] <fwereade> dimitern, segregating them is probably wise even if it leads to slightly less visually pleasing cli commands
[11:26] <dimitern> fwereade: ok, i see
[11:26] <rogpeppe> for anyone who's interested, you might want to check out https://ec2-50-17-53-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com/
[11:27] <rogpeppe> it's running the GUI on top of go juju
[11:27] <rogpeppe> fwereade, dimitern: ^
[11:28] <dimitern> The site's security certificate is not trusted!
[11:28] <dimitern> :)
[11:28] <dimitern> rogpeppe: password?
[11:28] <rogpeppe> dimitern: any password
[11:28] <dimitern> ah, it works without
[11:29] <dimitern> if I move a node the relation links are not updated
[11:29] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yeah, i've just found that
[11:29] <fwereade> rogpeppe, nice
[11:30] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i'm just filing a bug.
[11:30] <dimitern> mgz: standup?
[11:30] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it's probably a known issue
[11:31] <mgz> gah, clock...
[11:41] <davecheney> evening gents
[11:41] <dimitern> https://codereview.appspot.com/8561045/ need second LGTM on this
[11:42] <dimitern> davecheney: evening
[11:43] <davecheney> i got bootstrap working on raring, _AND_ precise without the tarball
[11:43] <davecheney> the diff is quite small
[11:44]  * dimitern cheers at davecheney
[11:44] <dimitern> davecheney: how? from the archive? +ssl?
[11:45] <davecheney> archive for raring
[11:45] <davecheney> ppa for precise
[11:45] <davecheney> haven't tested quantal yet
[11:45] <davecheney> dimitern: I posted a sample in the channel this afternoon
[11:45] <davecheney> it should be in th channel logs
[11:47] <dimitern> ah ok
[11:54] <dimitern> rogpeppe: a fairly small one https://codereview.appspot.com/8561045/
[11:56] <dimitern> fwereade: ping
[11:56] <fwereade> dimitern, pong
[11:57] <fwereade> davecheney, awesome, tyvm
[11:57] <dimitern> fwereade: so by "minimal machine errors in status" we mean short agent-state + agent-state-info for a machine?
[11:58] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah
[11:58] <TheMue> davecheney: ping
[11:59] <dimitern> fwereade: cool\
[12:05] <davecheney> TheMue: pack
[12:05] <davecheney> ack
[12:05] <dimitern> fwereade: how can I tell which machine the provisioner is running on, to get its tag for the nonce badge?
[12:06] <dimitern> fwereade: now it's always machine-0, but i'd like the code to handle the case when it's not, if possible
[12:06] <TheMue> davecheney: got my mail regarding the status? just wanted to know if there's already existing code or if i can start at zero?
[12:06] <fwereade> dimitern, ha, good question -- I guess just pass it into the provisioner when it's started
[12:06] <davecheney> yes, i got your email
[12:06] <davecheney> did you not get my reply ?
[12:06] <davecheney> i have a few branches, but they are so old
[12:06] <davecheney> you'd be better to start from scratch rather than trying to merge them to trunk
[12:07] <dimitern> fwereade: sgtm, and add a field for it in the Provisioner struct
[12:07] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah, sgtm
[12:08] <TheMue> davecheney: did not received your mail yet, strange.
[12:09] <fwereade> dimitern, (I have a lurking belief that all tasks should accept something like an agent.Conf, so they're all responsible for extracting the context they need rather than the agent having to do it for them, but meh, that's not one for today)
[12:09] <TheMue> davecheney: ok, so i'll start new, thanks. enjoy your evening.
[12:12] <TheMue> davecheney: ah, just seen, my mail app seems to have a problem with the canonical ssl. hmmm.
[12:14] <dimitern> fwereade: I agree; for now I added machineId to NewProvisioner
[12:14] <dimitern> fwereade: and a TODO for NewFirewaller
[12:17] <davecheney> TheMue: some old branhces, https://codereview.appspot.com/8619043
[12:17] <davecheney> probably not useful
[12:17] <TheMue> davecheney: thanks, will take a look
[12:17] <davecheney> there isn't much there sadly
[12:19] <TheMue> davecheney: but at least it looks like my approach in mind too. h5
[12:27] <dimitern> fwereade: what happened to that critical bug about upgrade-charm should accept --switch?
[12:41] <fwereade> dimitern, I imagine it was downgraded given everything else we're doing, but I'm not aware specifically
[12:41] <dimitern> fwereade: sorry, my bad - check out this https://codereview.appspot.com/8620043/
[12:41] <dimitern> fwereade: I see, ok
[12:42] <dimitern> and I still need a second LGTM on this CL: https://codereview.appspot.com/8620043/
[12:50] <TheMue> dimitern: do i get it right, the prefix of the nonce of each machine is the machine id of the provisioner?
[12:50] <dimitern> TheMue: yes
[12:50] <dimitern> TheMue: except for the bootstrap node, where it's the user-admin who created the environment
[12:51] <TheMue> dimitern: ok, what's the reason behind this prefix?
[12:52] <fwereade> TheMue, audit trail if multiple provisioners ever come to race
[12:52] <TheMue> fwereade: thx, that was the missing info. ;)
[12:56] <fwereade> dimitern, reviewed
[12:56] <dimitern> fwereade: tyvm
[12:59] <TheMue> dimitern: and another one
[13:10]  * fwereade lunch
[13:22] <dimitern> TheMue: thanks
[13:26] <dimitern> this is ridiculous! how come I cannot cast []byte to [16]byte (of the same length)?
[13:27] <dimitern> I have to range over the slice to fill in the array
[13:33] <rogpeppe> dimitern: https://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=395
[13:35] <dimitern> rogpeppe: i'm glad I'm not the only one who was thinking about this :)
[13:35] <rogpeppe> dimitern: why do you need a [16]byte?
[13:35] <rogpeppe> dimitern: oh yes, you don't need to range
[13:36] <rogpeppe> dimitern: var x [16]byte; copy(x, slice)
[13:36] <dimitern> rogpeppe: because UUID is [16]byte
[13:36] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ah, cool, I'll try copy then
[13:37] <dimitern> first argument to copy should be slice; have [16]byte
[13:38] <dimitern> doesn't work
[13:38] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ^^
[13:38] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ah, sorry, copy(x[:], slice)
[13:39] <dimitern> rogpeppe: nice!
[13:41] <dimitern> rogpeppe: it's working now, thanks
[13:43] <rogpeppe> fwereade: as far as you know, are there any rsetrictions on
[13:43] <rogpeppe> aargh
[13:43] <rogpeppe> fwereade: as far as you know, are there any restrictions on interface or relation names currently?
[13:44] <rogpeppe> fwereade: other than the interface name can't start with "juju-" or be "juju"
[14:49] <TheMue> afk, biab
[14:51] <dimitern> fwereade: the status displaying machine agent/instance state is not dependent on MA setting status
[14:52] <fwereade> dimitern, weeell, it would be a lot saner if the MA stuff were in place
[14:52] <dimitern> fwereade: I mean one does not depend on the other
[14:52] <fwereade> dimitern, true
[14:52] <dimitern> fwereade: I'll propose both shortly, the status is done, and I think it came along nice
[14:53] <fwereade> dimitern, great news, tyvm
[14:58] <fwereade> bbiab
[15:08] <rogpeppe> fwereade, dimitern: a branch cleaning up some redundant statecmd/params stuff; big but almost entirely mechanical: https://codereview.appspot.com/8626043
[15:09] <dimitern> rogpeppe: will take a look shortly
[15:09] <rogpeppe> dimitern: thanks.
[15:10] <dimitern> rogpeppe: in the mean time, i'll swap it for this https://codereview.appspot.com/8561046/
[15:12] <rogpeppe> dimitern: we're calling machine.AgentAlive, but i can't see anywhere that we're actually calling Machine.SetAgentAlive, can you?
[15:13] <rogpeppe> dimitern: have you tested that branch live?
[15:14] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i suspect it will always show machines as "down"
[15:17] <dimitern> rogpeppe: it cannot be tested live until the MA actually sets the status, which is what i'm working on right now
[15:17] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ah, cool
[15:18] <rogpeppe> dimitern: if you could make another branch that also gets the machine agent to SetAgentAlive, that would be marvellous
[15:18] <dimitern> rogpeppe: will do soon, once the tests pass
[15:47] <TheMue> fwereade: just for info, after a first look into the py code for the units it doesn't seem so weird. i hope this impression will stay. ;)
[15:47] <dimitern> I had a curious error from gocheck:
[15:47] <dimitern> ... Panic: Couldn't create temporary directory: mkdir /tmp/gocheck-669867415: file exists (PC=0x41175F)
[15:48] <dimitern> It turned out I have loads of these in /tmp/, after rm -fr /tmp/gocheck-* it works now
[15:48] <fwereade> TheMue, yeah, it's not insane or anything, it just uses concepts we don't expose
[15:48] <TheMue> dimitern: hmm, interesting. why do they remain? good question.
[15:49] <dimitern> TheMue: probably because I almost never restart my machine, and they're not removed by gocheck at the end
[15:49] <dimitern> fwereade: https://codereview.appspot.com/8561046/
[15:49] <TheMue> dimitern: imho gocheck is removing them (that's what i thought). but you may be right.
[15:49] <fwereade> dimitern, cheers
[15:52] <rogpeppe> fwereade: on call today? fancy a look at this: https://codereview.appspot.com/8626043 ?
[15:53] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I'm looking at it now
[15:53] <rogpeppe> fwereade: thanks
[15:53] <rogpeppe> fwereade: sorry about the size, but it's really just cleaning up cruft.
[15:53] <fwereade> rogpeppe, it's also wrong, but I suspect it was before
[15:53] <fwereade> rogpeppe, how the hell did we write this stuff without tests?
[15:54] <rogpeppe> fwereade: which stuff in particular?
[15:54] <rogpeppe> fwereade: (i'm thinking of one thing, but you might be thinking of another)
[15:54] <dimitern> shit, I forgot the kanban meeting today.. mramm can you invite me through the calendar, so I'll keep track of it please?
[15:55] <mramm> dimitern: I'll do that
[15:55] <dimitern> mramm: cheers
[16:07] <fwereade> rogpeppe, hmm, there are some tests, but I'm sure they were missing last time I looked
[16:07] <fwereade> rogpeppe, anyway the yaml stuff is not the same as python
[16:08] <rogpeppe> fwereade: how does it differ?
[16:08] <fwereade> rogpeppe, in python it's equivalent to a map[string]map[string]interface{}
[16:08] <rogpeppe> fwereade: orly?
[16:09] <fwereade> rogpeppe, yeah
[16:09] <rogpeppe> fwereade: so what's the top level map?
[16:09] <fwereade> rogpeppe, service name
[16:09] <rogpeppe> fwereade: but we already know the service name, right?
[16:09] <fwereade> rogpeppe, use case is having a single config file for your whole environment
[16:09] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ah, i see
[16:09] <fwereade> rogpeppe, not sure if we handle it on deploy, we should really
[16:10] <fwereade> rogpeppe, ah, we do
[16:10] <fwereade> rogpeppe, but still in the wrong way
[16:11] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I think it's just a matter of fixing SetYAML though
[16:11] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i'm not entirely sure
[16:12] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ISTR that the gui asks you to specify a config file when deploying a given service, not a config file for the whole thing
[16:12] <rogpeppe> fwereade: so it would be quite weird to specify a yaml file like that and have all the settings ignored because the service name didn't match
[16:13] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i can see use cases for both possibilities
[16:13] <fwereade> rogpeppe, what is the point of having yaml config setting in the gui if not so people can use the settings files they do in the cli?
[16:14] <rogpeppe> fwereade: let me just check in the gui
[16:19] <rogpeppe> fwereade: the problem i see with it is that it means i can't have a yaml file that holds the default config settings for any instance of some charm i might want to deploy more than one service of
[16:19] <fwereade> rogpeppe, that's not the use case it's addressing as far as I'm aware
[16:20] <rogpeppe> fwereade: it seems like a reasonable one to me. that's how i'd want to use it anyway.
[16:20] <rogpeppe> fwereade: because service names are fluid
[16:20] <fwereade> rogpeppe, meh, settings for one service are not necessarily settings for another service, even if they share a charm
[16:20] <rogpeppe> fwereade: it would be more useful if it mapped from charm name (or url) to settings
[16:20] <fwereade> rogpeppe, it's a services-config file for a whole environment
[16:21] <dimitern> rogpeppe: there is the rest https://codereview.appspot.com/8630043
[16:21] <rogpeppe> fwereade: so like a half-hearted stack?
[16:21]  * fwereade shrugs
[16:21] <fwereade> rogpeppe, didn't say it was the world's most inspired feature
[16:21] <fwereade> rogpeppe, just that it's a compatibility break for no good reason ;p
[16:22] <rogpeppe> fwereade: so what does set do? read the yaml and return an error if there's no matching service?
[16:23] <arosales> jcastro: can we get a spot on ubuntu-meeting for the charmer meeting?
[16:24] <rogpeppe> fwereade: istm that if that's what we've got, we really want "juju set --config foo.yaml" to change the settings on all the services mentioned in the yaml file.
[16:26] <jcastro> arosales: I can work that
[16:27] <arosales> jcastro: thanks
[16:27] <fwereade> rogpeppe, agreed, but that's not what we have now
[16:28] <arosales> jcastro: we also need to sort the on-air recording
[16:28] <rogpeppe> fwereade: no. i just find it difficult to countenance a Service.SetYAML that works like that. i'll learn to deal with it, i guess.
[16:28] <dimitern> rogpeppe: reviewed
[16:28] <rogpeppe> dimitern: thanks
[16:28] <fwereade> rogpeppe, yeah, I don't like it either
[16:29] <fwereade> dimitern, ping
[16:29] <dimitern> fwereade: I have 2 CLs for you to review please: https://codereview.appspot.com/8561046/ and https://codereview.appspot.com/8630043/
[16:29] <dimitern> fwereade: pong :)
[16:30] <rogpeppe> fwereade: agreed about half-deployed services when it comes to AddUnit time. but before we've added any units, i really think we should clean up the service.
[16:30] <dimitern> fwereade: what's that g+ invite about?
[16:30] <fwereade> dimitern, I want to talk about one of them, was thinking about what rogpeppe said
[16:31] <fwereade> rogpeppe, can we talk about this a bit later?
[16:31] <rogpeppe> fwereade: sure
[16:40] <rogpeppe> fwereade: trivial? https://codereview.appspot.com/8616044
[16:50] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ping about https://codereview.appspot.com/8630043/
[17:00] <fwereade> rogpeppe, https://codereview.appspot.com/8616044/ LGTM trivial
[17:00] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ta
[17:00] <fwereade> dimitern, btw, could I get a review on https://codereview.appspot.com/8545043/ please?
[17:01] <dimitern> fwereade: sure, I'll be on it shortly
[17:01] <fwereade> rogpeppe, ok, half-deployed services
[17:02] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ok
[17:02] <dimitern> fwereade: btw is the meeting tomorrow morning at 9 or at 10?
[17:03] <fwereade> dimitern, er 10 I think
[17:03] <fwereade> rogpeppe, destroying them is probably right
[17:03] <dimitern> fwereade: ok, and the kanban is at 16
[17:03] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I'm just bothered by the cases where we don't manage to
[17:03] <rogpeppe> fwereade: yeah. i think if you try to deploy a service with a malformed config, the service should not be created.
[17:04] <fwereade> rogpeppe, the config should probably be validate first then
[17:04] <fwereade> rogpeppe, a misconfigured subordinate could be very annoying to clean up if we dropped connection just after creating
[17:04] <rogpeppe> fwereade: agreed. it is an issue, but failing to add a unit is a much rarer occurrence (network error) than a failed config (user error)
[17:05] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I think that the only reasonable thing to do is to validate the config before creating the service
[17:06] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I didn't catch on that we weren't doing so
[17:07] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i'm not that bothered really. the SetConfig step can still fail either way, and we'll want to clean up afterwards.
[17:08] <rogpeppe> fwereade: validating beforehand reduces the likelyhood of a failure, but it's only making the window smaller, not eliminating it
[17:08] <fwereade> rogpeppe, well, in what ways can it sensibly fail (aside from dropped connections, in which case no point trying to clean up)?
[17:08] <fwereade> rogpeppe, how so?
[17:08] <fwereade> rogpeppe, we know the charm, we created the service: we should be able to set a config with 100% certainty
[17:09] <fwereade> rogpeppe, hm, immediate concurrent ninja-edits are possible
[17:09] <fwereade> rogpeppe, but this is why I contend that this should all be in a transaction
[17:10] <fwereade> rogpeppe, (not that I'm saying to do that now, just to illustrate a general point)
[17:10] <rogpeppe> fwereade: if someone's running around calling SetConfig on about-to-be-created services, i think they deserve what they get :-)
[17:10] <fwereade> rogpeppe, yeah
[17:11] <fwereade> rogpeppe, so that reduces the cases we care about to dropped connections, in which case there's no point trying to clean up
[17:11] <fwereade> rogpeppe, we just have to validate the incoming data against the charm before we start with the service
[17:11] <rogpeppe> fwereade: assuming there are no transient mgo errors, yeah
[17:12] <fwereade> rogpeppe, fair enough
[17:12] <rogpeppe> fwereade: given current timeline, i'm going to leave it as a TODO for now
[17:12] <fwereade> rogpeppe, your call
[17:12] <rogpeppe> fwereade: and certainly not in that already-too-big branch :-)
[17:12] <fwereade> rogpeppe, +1
[17:13] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i had a clean live test with API auth enabled, BTW
[17:13]  * fwereade cheers at rogpeppe
[17:13] <dimitern> something very weird is going on - m.SetAgentAlive() returns no error, but m.AgentAlive() returns false even after 5 sec., and m.WaitAgentAlive(5sec) timeouts
[17:20] <rogpeppe> fwereade: enable API auth: https://codereview.appspot.com/8626044/
[17:23] <fwereade> rogpeppe, sorry, gotta catch the shops
[17:23] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I'll be back some time later though
[17:23] <rogpeppe> fwereade: np
[17:51] <rogpeppe> right, that's me for the day
[17:52] <rogpeppe> reviews of https://codereview.appspot.com/8626044/ much appreciated
[17:52] <rogpeppe> g'night all
[17:55] <niemeyer> fwereade, rogpeppe: The agent state remains as pending although the install hook is actually running
[17:55] <niemeyer> fwereade, rogpeppe: Sounds familia?
[17:55] <niemeyer> r
[18:00] <niemeyer> fwereade, rogpeppe: There's also something weird going on with the juju tools selection
[18:00] <niemeyer>     agent-version: 1.9.14
[18:00] <niemeyer>     agent-version: 1.9.13
[18:00] <niemeyer> That's with machines 0 and 1
[18:00] <niemeyer> I used --upload-tools to bootstrap the environment
[18:00] <niemeyer> I'll send a note to the list
[18:05] <niemeyer> Done
[20:56] <thumper> morning
[21:00] <fwereade_> thumper, heyhey
[21:00] <thumper> morning fwereade_
[22:29]  * thumper goes to read the godocs again
[23:05] <thumper> fwereade_: are you still around?
[23:05] <thumper> happy birthday davecheney
[23:06] <fwereade_> thumper, yeah
[23:06] <fwereade_> davecheney, happy birthday
[23:06] <thumper> fwereade_: just looking at the set-env comment re: agent-version
[23:06] <thumper> fwereade_: right now, in config.New, it sets the agent-version if it is unset or empty
[23:06] <fwereade_> thumper, ah, yes, sorry, that's not proposed yet
[23:06] <thumper> fwereade_: I just changed how it was doing it
[23:07] <fwereade_> thumper, disregard my comments, I'll suck up the merge
[23:07] <thumper> fwereade_: oh, you are changing it?
[23:07] <fwereade_> thumper, yeah, the pick-latest-tools behaviour on bootstrap is one that nobody has argued against
[23:07] <fwereade_> thumper, but an explicit setting should win
[23:08] <thumper> fwereade_: sure, and it will
[23:08] <thumper> fwereade_: config.New just makes sure there is something there that is valid
[23:08] <fwereade_> thumper, indeed -- but if there's a real default there's no way to tell the difference between an explicit setting of version.CurrentNumber and an automatic one
[23:08] <thumper> fwereade_: also, if a default one is retrieved, it can always be overridden with Apply anyway
[23:09] <thumper> fwereade_: why should config care?
[23:09] <fwereade_> thumper, as a reader of config when choosing bootstrap tools, I care
[23:10]  * thumper thinks
[23:10] <fwereade_> thumper, otherwise I always bootstrap with the client version of the tools (unless I upload-tools)
[23:10] <thumper> fwereade_: the problem is, a config without an agent-version isn't valid
[23:11] <fwereade_> thumper, I think this is just another one of those cases where the validity of a key depends on context
[23:11] <thumper> fwereade_: and what are you doing instead?
[23:11] <fwereade_> thumper, AgentVersion() (version.Number, bool)
[23:11] <thumper> fwereade_: hmm...
[23:12] <thumper> fwereade_: so do you want me to change my branch?
[23:12] <thumper> fwereade_: I could remove the default
[23:12] <fwereade_> thumper, no, I said disregard it
[23:12] <thumper> kk
[23:12] <fwereade_> thumper, I'll suck up the conflicts
[23:12] <fwereade_> thumper, so long as it doesn't change assumptions made across the codebase we're fine ;)
[23:13] <thumper> fwereade_: no, I've made no sweeping changes :)
[23:13] <fwereade_> thumper, btw, I just reproposed https://codereview.appspot.com/8604043
[23:13]  * thumper nods
[23:13] <thumper> I take another look
[23:14] <fwereade_> thumper, I think an LGTM from you would be enough to land it
[23:14] <thumper> ok
[23:14] <thumper> I'm just going through the set-env review
[23:14] <thumper> not much to change
[23:14] <thumper> but it needs another LGTM, perhpas I'll poke davecheney :)
[23:14] <davecheney> how did ya' all know ?
[23:14] <fwereade_> thumper, nah, mostly just ramblings
[23:15] <thumper> davecheney: magic
[23:15] <davecheney> thumper: LGTMs for everyone today!!
[23:15]  * fwereade_ cheers
[23:15] <thumper> davecheney: and google+ said so
[23:15] <davecheney> thumper: fwereade_ I think I may have a clue about what niemeyer is talking about with pending agents
[23:15] <davecheney> i saw one case last night when I was testing the mongo stuff
[23:15] <davecheney> basically unit agent has the wrong path for tools
[23:16] <davecheney> or the tools symlink is not there
[23:16] <davecheney> that is about all I can say at the moment
[23:16] <davecheney> but obviously that will leave the machine in pending
[23:17] <fwereade_> davecheney, s/machine/unit/ right?
[23:18] <fwereade_> davecheney, but, hmm, that is ...troubling
[23:18] <davecheney> fwereade_: i meant machined == virtuail machine == service
[23:18] <davecheney> but yes, you are correct
[23:18] <davecheney> fwereade_: i will investigate more
[23:18] <davecheney> i thought that it was something I had screwed u p on my branch
[23:18] <davecheney> as, as usual, I was crossing series to deploy the environment
[23:19] <fwereade_> davecheney, I'm going to change --fake-series to default to config.DefaultSeries and the actual config's DefaultSeries()
[23:19] <davecheney> fwereade_: +1
[23:19] <davecheney> that would be more useful
[23:20] <davecheney> atm, we could have 3 series in play
[23:20] <davecheney> the workstation, the fake series, and the default-series
[23:20] <davecheney> that is too many
[23:20] <fwereade_> davecheney, yeah, you should only need to remember it on relatively rare occasions
[23:21] <davecheney> there is a slightly complicated case where you are depliying a R or Q bootstrap node, and precise service units because they follow the charm spc
[23:21] <davecheney> but honestly, that is always painful
[23:21] <davecheney> and in those cases I just hack version.version
[23:28] <thumper> fwereade_: FYI, I am swayed by your reasoning for the local test array
[23:29] <thumper> fwereade_: just the }{{ and }}{ lines take some getting used to
[23:29] <fwereade_> thumper, cool -- and, yeah, I know, it definitely repulsed me at first :)
[23:29] <davecheney> thumper: that part is unfortuntely lisp like
[23:29] <thumper> :)
[23:29] <davecheney> who's got something for review, i'm in a bonevolent mood
[23:30] <thumper> fwereade_: we should take your nice description to the list to get general approval
[23:30] <thumper> davecheney: o/
[23:30] <thumper> davecheney: the set-environment needs another LGTM
[23:30] <thumper> let me just update the diff with review comments.
[23:30]  * davecheney looks
[23:30] <fwereade_> thumper, good idea, I will try to remember it before I sleep :)
[23:31]  * thumper wonders if the second lbox propose will remember the prereq from before
[23:31] <davecheney> thumper: did you land the prereq ?
[23:31] <thumper> not yet
[23:31] <davecheney> ok
[23:31] <davecheney> np
[23:31] <thumper> davecheney: I wanted to land them together
[23:31] <thumper> lbox propose failed anyway
[23:31] <thumper> does it remember?
[23:31] <thumper> or do I need to be explicit?
[23:32] <thumper> davecheney: the prereq is all good to merge, but I want to land the pair
[23:32] <davecheney> you need to do -req on the first cycle of lbox propose
[23:32] <davecheney> for that branch it remembers (or probaly relies on bzr to remember)
[23:32] <fwereade_> davecheney, btw, https://codereview.appspot.com/8545043/ is up as well and should be fairly simple
[23:33] <thumper> fwereade_: how did you get the please take a look with the new patch at the same time?
[23:33] <thumper> I always end up with two comments
[23:33] <fwereade_> thumper, lbox propose sends drafted comments
[23:33] <thumper> fwereade_: oh, I didn't realise that
[23:35] <davecheney> thumper: yeah, anything you haven't sent, it will send when you propose again
[23:39] <thumper> fwereade_: you have your two https://codereview.appspot.com/8604043/
[23:40] <thumper> davecheney:  https://codereview.appspot.com/8610043 should be updated now
[23:43] <davecheney> thumper: ta
[23:44] <fwereade_> thumper, cheers
[23:50] <davecheney> thumper: re set environment
[23:50] <davecheney> i have a recollection that we do _exactly_ that logic when
[23:50] <davecheney> shit, it was the first lisbon sprint
[23:50] <davecheney> something about pushing the config into the enviornment
[23:50] <davecheney> minus the secrets
[23:51] <davecheney> something about updatesecrets, but only if there are some
[23:51] <davecheney> it is in environs.config environs/config
[23:51] <davecheney> something like that
[23:51] <davecheney> does that ring any bells ?
[23:53] <davecheney> thumper: oh look, you've found that part
[23:55] <thumper> davecheney: I used that as a basis of the set-environment changes
[23:56] <davecheney> thumper: i'm sorry you had to spend so much time looking at the environment configuration horror show
[23:57] <thumper> :)
[23:57] <davecheney> you have made it much less horrid
[23:57] <thumper> davecheney: the change to agent-version defaults was to normalize the approach
[23:57] <thumper> davecheney: if it wasn't set, it was set inside config.New
[23:57] <thumper> davecheney: so it made sense to be consistent
[23:57] <thumper> davecheney: however fwereade_ is changing that behaviour, and has agreed to suck up my changes and tweak as necessary


[01:11] <blobbybob> hi
[01:13] <blobbybob> i would like to kno if i am the only one with a crashy flash player...
[01:15] <blobbybob> for yes type 1, for no type 2, for maybe type 3
[02:55]  * al4nc4ds o que falta inventarem agora? ;S ---> http://www.baixaki.com.br/linux/download/AnoN-1mOS.htm
[02:57] <holstein> al4nc4ds: ?
[02:58] <al4nc4ds> distro based ubuntu web security
[02:58] <al4nc4ds> #fail
[03:00] <holstein> al4nc4ds: check out the topic... can we help you with ubuntustudio questions?
[03:00] <al4nc4ds> holstein, ok sorry
[03:31] <Unit193> holstein: Ident.
[03:31] <holstein> Unit193: whats that?
[03:31] <holstein> my ops hat?... i just wanted to flex a little in case
[03:32] <Unit193> Nick ! ident@hostname  I was pointing out something I am sure you also saw.
[03:33] <holstein> Unit193: oh yeah...  :)
[14:44] <KiteHawk> Hello I've been working on installing ubuntu 12.04 for a few days now. I'm trying to setup a audio production studio and i'm wandering if ubuntu12.04 was the way to go. I loaded airtime 2 and tested it for long play capabilities last night and it crashed before this morning. I havent been able to find anyone who knows why mixxx wont start. sometimes i can get the preference panel to pop up but thats it. Any Ideas?
[14:46] <len-dt> KiteHawk, are you setting up/running jack first?
[14:46] <KiteHawk> i finally got jack server to run but don't think anything is connected to it
[14:47] <KiteHawk> i have pulse, alsa, jack
[14:47] <holstein> look and see.. try making some sound with something you know will work .. consider a non JACK option
[14:48] <KiteHawk> i can get playback no prob but my input stream is still not working
[14:48] <holstein> KiteHawk: playback in JACK?
[14:49] <KiteHawk> honestly im not sure how to test jack because i never have had success with jack until now that it finally works i think. I dont know much about JACK
[14:49] <KiteHawk> how do i check JACK
[14:49] <len-dt> mixxx as it comes from the ubuntu repo is compiled with no pulse.
[14:50] <holstein> KiteHawk: i typically connect something... like audacious... something i know will just play a known good sound file
[14:50] <KiteHawk> well i can play sound files but how do i know jack has anything to do with that?
[14:50] <ailo> hydrogen is a good program that is easy to get sound off
[14:51] <ailo> KiteHawk: Did you start jack using qjackctl?
[14:51] <KiteHawk> yes
[14:51] <ailo> KiteHawk: Look in "Connect"
[14:51] <KiteHawk> yes ailo
[14:51] <KiteHawk> ok
[14:51] <ailo> KiteHawk: What software are you using to play sounds?
[14:52] <KiteHawk> i think alsa
[14:52] <holstein> KiteHawk: you will connect something like audacious
[14:52] <holstein> some sound creating or playing software.. like hydrogen
[14:52] <KiteHawk> ok one sec ill load it
[14:52] <len-dt> Ok I downloaded mixxx, it connects in jack by default.
[14:53] <KiteHawk> for some reason ive downloaded and uninstalled mixxx so many times but everytime i try and start it the icon bouces and then just goes back to sleep
[14:55] <holstein> KiteHawk: you can always open a terminal, ans launch the application from there.. you might see helpful output there.. more feedback than the bouncing and not starting
[14:56] <KiteHawk> yes i tried that a few times as well as logged in as root to try and launch it
[14:56] <ailo> KiteHawk: Did you try hydrogen yet?
[14:56] <KiteHawk> ok audacious is playing
[14:57] <ailo> KiteHawk: Do you see it in qjackctl -> Connect?
[14:57] <KiteHawk> is hydrogen better
[14:57] <ailo> hydrogen is a typical jack software
[14:57] <ailo> And easy to get audio from
[14:57] <KiteHawk> hmm
[14:57] <ailo> It's a tracker/drum machine
[14:57] <holstein> KiteHawk: you wont be able to run JACK as normal user, and something else as root.. they wont connect
[14:58] <ailo> KiteHawk: Do you see audacious in Qjackctl -> Connect?
[14:58] <KiteHawk> nothing there it looks like my outputs are capture and inputs are playback thats kinda odd
[14:58] <holstein> KiteHawk: you just open a terminal and run the application as your user for the error output
[14:58] <ailo> KiteHawk: Audacious is probably not set to use jack by default
[14:58] <ailo> Hydrogen is
[14:58] <len-dt> Ok, mixxx even though it connected to jack the first time seems to like alsa better.
[14:59] <KiteHawk> where do i post the debug info
[14:59] <holstein> !pastebin | KiteHawk
[15:01] <KiteHawk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1112041/
[15:01] <len-dt> core dump
[15:01] <KiteHawk> i got core dump as well before
[15:01] <KiteHawk> final error for mixxx
[15:02] <ailo> KiteHawk: To set audacious to use jack, you need to go to File -> Preferences -> Audio -> Output settings. Choose jack as the output plugin
[15:02] <holstein> i find, you also have to have a file playing, then it shows up in JACK
[15:02] <ailo> Right
[15:03] <ailo> KiteHawk: Also, you might need to restart the program
[15:03] <ailo> After making the settings change
[15:03] <holstein> if you are uncomfortable, or unsure, restart the machine
[15:03] <len-dt> mixxx has to be set up to the same parameters as the device is set up in alsa. For example it will fail to open an alsa device if it is set to 48k and the device is set to 44100
[15:03] <holstein> i used to restart when i couldnt properly kill JACK
[15:04] <KiteHawk> ah
[15:04] <KiteHawk> damn JACK just went into a fullscreen weirdness
[15:05] <KiteHawk> ok im gonna restart
[15:06] <ailo> KiteHawk: YOu mean qjackctl?
[15:07] <ailo> Isn't it just maximized?
[15:07] <KiteHawk> len-dt: you might be right about the 48k or 44100 settings i'll check on that
[15:07] <ailo> No need to restart
[15:07] <len-dt> It looks like Mixxx has not kept up with the libs. I see signs of gui stuff not happening when it should. I am pretty sure this was one of the apps I tried and worked for me in 12.04 beta testing.
[15:08] <KiteHawk> no i mean qctl just went crazy so im restarting no it wasnt a maximize thing checked that
[15:08] <len-dt> Warning: [Main]: Object::connect: No such slot QGroupBox::setProperty(const char*, const QVariant&) in src/skin/propertybinder.cpp:13
[15:08] <KiteHawk> the computer was on all night and seemed to be a lil slow so restart is a good place to start for now
[15:14] <KiteHawk> weird qjackctl went fullscreen weird on me?
[15:15] <len-dt> I can't get a gui beyond the setup dialog. Lots of gui errors too about null (missing) objects.
[15:15] <len-dt> I think the package needs to be rerolled.
[15:16] <holstein> take a screenie.. try a different user account
[15:16] <KiteHawk> create a new user account
[15:19] <KiteHawk> ?
[15:19] <holstein> KiteHawk: sure.. as a troubleshooting step... try as a new user
[15:19] <holstein> that will take your current config of the UI and everything else out of the equation
[15:20] <len-dt> remember to make the new user have the audio group
[15:21] <holstein> or, issue everything in the terminal as gksudo
[15:21] <holstein> gksudo qjackctly ...gksudo audacious ... to troubleshoot
[15:22] <KiteHawk> k bare w me this is a remote computer and now i have to go there because my user just changed and the remote settings neede to be added. 5 mins. tnx
[15:37] <KiteHawk> ok im back
[15:37] <KiteHawk> what should i do first?
[15:41] <KiteHawk> hello
[15:43] <KiteHawk> ok jack seems to be working
[15:44] <KiteHawk> mixxx still wont start
[15:47] <Xzu> i don't know but maybe you could start in a terminal and pastbin the result or search for .log file (/var/log/) or type --help in commande ligne
[15:51] <KiteHawk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1112041/ im getting the same debug
[15:51] <KiteHawk> what does mixxx need to start
[15:55] <KiteHawk> ouch too much info out there that doesnt pan out
[15:55] <KiteHawk> people saying ubuntu 12.04 and airtime 2 and mixxx and jack all work together im not seeing it. ug :(
[15:59] <KiteHawk> ok well its quiet in here ill try back later   thanks for the help :)
[23:00] <KiteHawk> Hello I'm back and still looking for someone who might know about a sound studio setup using airtime icecast mixxx audacity?
[23:02] <KiteHawk> I installed 12.04 and the ubuntustudio-desktop as well. jack is running. alsa is working pulse is there and mixxxx refuses to start so i can't test my input stream to the airtime. mixxx trouble :
[23:02] <KiteHawk> ?
[23:03] <KiteHawk> :|
[23:17] <KiteHawk> hello ;)
[23:29] <KiteHawk> hello
[23:46] <KiteHawk> anyone know about installing mixxx?
[23:48] <KiteHawk> 8) cya


[00:30] <arraybolt3> There's a user, BayouBilly, who is repeatedly going off-topic and isn't listening to requests to stop very well. It's not exactly a channel emergency, but it's still something that you may want to look at.
[00:35] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: He's on my radar, thanks for bringing it up here.
[00:36] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: +1, thank you guys. (I didn't know if you were an #ubuntu op or not so I figured here would be a good spot.)


[00:00] <blahdeblah> head_victim: Thanks - probably a good idea, but i haven't got a spare hard disk for it at the moment.  After i re-jigger my server setup it might be possible.
[00:01] <blahdeblah> head_victim: BTW, have you got it on a dedicated filesystem? If i do end up getting a copy, it will probably be faster and simpler if it's on a filesystem of its own.
[06:46] <kaushal> hi
[06:47] <kaushal> is there a way to have a condition like use wireless connection for vpn and wired connections for browsing ?
[06:48] <kaushal> I mean on Ubuntu 10.04 Desktop
[07:02] <elky> I don't know that you can make certain desktop apps use certain interfaces, no.
[07:03] <elky> kaushal, you should probably ask the bigger group of people at #ubuntu
[07:04] <kaushal> elky: ok
[07:22] <blahdeblah> kaushal: binding to a particular interface might work in some circumstances (if your wired is the default route and you bind the VPN client to the wifi), but the way i would do that is to use policy routing with shorewall
[07:22] <blahdeblah> kaushal: It's a non-trivial exercise if you're not familiar with firewalls and networking
[07:47] <kaushal> blahdeblah: Thanks
[07:48] <kaushal> blahdeblah: can it be done on the client desktop ?
[07:48] <blahdeblah> It can be done on any linux machine
[07:48] <blahdeblah> The trick is to do it with minimal effort ;-)
[07:49] <blahdeblah> For the first (simpler) solution to work, you would need to guarantee that your wired connection has the default route on it, which is not easy without switching to static interface configuration.
[07:50] <blahdeblah> Another way you could achieve something similar is to have a proxy server somewhere on your wired LAN, and configure your browsing to go via that.  That way all browsing would be wired, and everything else could be wireless.
[08:13] <kaushal> blahdeblah: Thanks
[08:14] <kaushal> will work on it
[08:21] <head_victim> blahdeblah: filesystem?
[08:22] <head_victim> I was looking into an external hdd for it
[08:33] <head_victim> Oh and just so you know it's apparently 433.0 GB of data for the whole lot.
[08:56] <blahdeblah> kaushal: Good luck - unless you go for policy-based routing, the trick is to make sure that the applications you want to use will naturally follow your existing routing tables.
[09:12] <blahdeblah> kaushal: So if you have a proxy server on your wired LAN, then the route to that is via your wired interface - hope that all makes sense
[11:31] <sagaci> hey
[11:33] <dns53> hey
[11:38] <kaushal> dns53: hey
[11:38] <dns53> so what are you up to
[11:40] <jfer> nisshh:i ended up resolving that issue lalya was having last night.
[11:40] <kaushal> dns53: are you referring to me ?
[11:41] <dns53> kaushal sure
[11:46] <kaushal> dns53: please guide me about my post on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2010-November/234334.html
[11:47] <dns53> probably yes if you do everything manually, through network manager probably not
[11:47] <kaushal> i see
[11:48] <dns53> what type of vpn?
[11:48] <kaushal> dns53: any examples you would like to share with me
[11:48] <kaushal> openvpn
[11:49] <dns53> my knowledge in openvpn is limited but i think there was an option to bind to a specific ip address or a particular network
[11:50] <dns53> what guide are you following to set up openvpn
[11:50] <kaushal> Its already in place
[11:51] <kaushal> I do not have to set anything
[12:33] <sagaci> oh, what's stopping there being an ubuntu-au podcast
[12:34] <dns53> you from starting one, it is not that hard to do
[12:35] <dns53> do you have a microphone, something to talk about and at least 6 hours a week free?
[12:39] <dns53> what would you talk about?
[12:50] <sagaci> yes, yes and yes


[00:00] <sadmac> Keybuk: any other thoughts?
[00:01] <Keybuk> not offhand
[00:02] <sadmac> Keybuk: should I keep plowing on this or go back to fiddling with 0.10 features?
[00:03] <Keybuk> which 0.10 features were you thinking of?
[00:04] <sadmac> Keybuk: I started from the top. was ripping out start on and stop on in favor of just plain ol' on.
[00:04] <sadmac> which got me thinking about this because changing the config file format was miserable.
[00:04] <Keybuk> on is something quite specific though
[00:05] <sadmac> its the biggest leap toward 0.10 though because its changes are most destructive. There's more bits coming off.
[00:05] <Keybuk> I'd say that the most destructive will be reorganising the jobs/instances stuff
[00:08] <sadmac> that's not really destructive as much as additive
[00:08] <sadmac> if you remove start on/stop on you've removed the mechanism that automatically starts and stops jobs.
[00:08] <sadmac> Then you just have to replace it.
[00:08] <Keybuk> I don't agree
[00:09] <Keybuk> I intend to change the very meaning of start and stop
[00:09] <Keybuk> and since the ideas haven't been written down yet
[00:09] <Keybuk> it's far too early to jump in and start recoding things
[00:10] <sadmac> what are these changes?
[00:11] <Keybuk> the idea that instances are created automatically
[00:11] <Keybuk> based on the while condition and matching instances there
[00:11] <Keybuk> start/stop simply change an existing instance - never create them
[00:12] <sadmac> that's still not much change. All that means is "kill job_class_start"
[00:12] <Keybuk> I think it's a fundamental change
[00:12] <Keybuk> I know you're eager to get coding on things
[00:12] <Keybuk> but right now, I can't honestly think of any particular bits that need changing ye
[00:13]  * Keybuk prefers to write things down before starting
[00:15] <sadmac> You English and your native tongue. I have no use for anything written down in such an overcomplicated language. C is a much better way of expressing ideas :)
[00:16] <Keybuk> no, blasting in and rewriting things is a very good way to get yourself in a mess
[00:18] <sadmac> the mess is leftovers from the early stages. that comes from not blasting hard enough :)
[00:19] <Keybuk> ?
[00:21] <sadmac> nothing wrong with blasting and rewriting if you commit.
[00:21] <sadmac> don't get attached to the old code. and don't wait. don't let a function sit 5 minutes past its interface mildly annoying you.
[00:32] <sadmac> Keybuk: do you leave 1 or 2 lines between functions? It seems to vary throughout the code
[00:32] <Keybuk> depends on the relationship between the functions
[00:32] <Keybuk> 1 line if the functions are realted
[00:32] <Keybuk> 2 if not
[00:32] <sadmac> ah
[10:51] <hettar> Silly question but are the *buntus going to start adding more standard upstart events ?
[10:52] <ion_> After Upstart 0.10
[10:52] <hettar> for instance it would be nice if there were some like "suspend-started" or "resume-finished" etc
[10:52] <hettar> hmm when is that ?
[10:53] <ion_> As soon as it’s ready. ;-)
[10:53] <hettar> will that be for koala or whatever it is called ?
[10:53] <hettar> fair enough
[10:53] <ion_> Dunno
[10:57] <hettar> Whats happening for 0.10 that standard events need to wait for it ?
[11:02] <ion_> It will implement enough functionality for the entire system to boot with native jobs. As soon as that point is reached, there’s incentive to think of “standard events”.
[11:03] <ion_> (and standard states)
[11:06] <hettar> Sounds good. thanks for the info. I'll just keep implementing my own events until then :)
[18:50]  * Keybuk has working daemon supervision now
[18:51] <sadmac2> Keybuk: what'd you do?
[18:52] <Keybuk> magic stuff
[18:52] <sadmac2> Keybuk: its bad for your sceptum to do that stuff
[18:55] <sadmac2> tracing a trace program is hard.
[18:55] <keesj> keesj: the Linux Journal had a piece about you and the fork/ptrace stuff in the "wat's up on kernel front"
[18:55] <sadmac2> keesj: stop talking to yourself.
[18:56] <keesj> :p
[18:56] <keesj> oops
[18:57] <sadmac2> Keybuk: what kind of magic?
[18:59] <ion_> O hai, ion_
[19:00] <sadmac2> sadmac: greetings from your work self, home self!
[19:01]  * sadmac2 heads to class
[19:07] <Keybuk> sadmac2: dark magic
[19:08] <Keybuk> keesj: got a link?
[19:11] <keesj> searching..
[19:22] <keesj> failed: scanning...
[19:29] <keesj> Keybuk: http://box.mmapps.net/lm_100_upstart/ where 003 is the part I was talking about