[07:25] <diplo> Morning all
[07:39] <daubers> WHeres popey when you want to poke him?
[07:40] <em> where is ikonia ?
[07:40] <czajkowski> having marmite on toast :)
[07:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Afternoon all.
[07:40] <em> afternoon
[07:41] <em> is it really after noon in the UK?
[07:41] <em> it cant be
[07:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> No - just some of us have been up and doing things for ages already...
[07:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> em: It's 08:42 BST
[07:56] <christel> GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD MORNING :D
[07:57] <daubers> Argh
[07:59]  * christel tickles daubers
[07:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> if everyone ignores that maybe she'll go away ;-)
[07:59] <christel> ahahaha
[08:03] <christel> you hater you!
[08:03] <diplo> heh, its to early to be that happy christel :(
[08:04] <christel> haha
[08:04] <daubers> Urgh, just discovered I need to renew my driving licence
[08:04] <christel> sorry, it is my Default Mode! :D
[08:04]  * christel hugs diplo
[08:04] <diplo> daubers: Mines in my calendar to alert me as I'm bound to forget
[08:04] <diplo> Not till 2014 here i think
[08:05]  * diplo gives christel a man hug and a little squeeze
[08:05] <christel> \o/
[08:06] <daubers> diplo: An unfortunat reminder that I'm 27 in 2 weeks time :(
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> daubers: only 27? :)
[08:06] <christel> daubers: aww such a baby :D
[08:06] <diplo> heh
[08:06] <daubers> Also means that I have to go get my photo taken :(
[08:06] <diplo> That's one thing I'm happy about here, I know I'm not the oldest :)
[08:07] <daubers> Oooh! If I do it online, they can get the photo from my passport!
[08:07] <daubers> Joined up thinking at last!
[08:08] <MartijnVdS> and that at your age!
[08:10] <czajkowski> daubers: you're only 27
[08:10] <czajkowski> dear gods man!
[08:11] <daubers> czajkowski: That's nearly past it!
[08:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> OI
[08:11] <czajkowski> daubers: oi!
[08:11] <daubers> \o/
[08:16] <diplo> :P
[08:16] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:17] <j0nr> morning all
[08:17] <j0nr> Does anyone know what happens to data on Amazon S3 if you miss a monthly payment? How much warning do you get before they delete your data?
[08:18] <j0nr> I'm thinking worst case scenarios if something happens to me and I can't pay or tell anyone to pay, I wouldn't want all my data to simply dissapear
[08:20] <j0nr> Something just got me thinking the other day... if I got run over by a bus tomorrow, I think what would happen to all my online data....
[08:20] <j0nr> in not so older times, someone personal affects would be in boxes etc in their home, so relatives could go through them...
[08:21] <j0nr> my most meaningful personal affects, i.e. all my photos, are mostly stored online... I don't think anyone else would know how to access them and save them
[08:22] <j0nr> Need a 'backup' thingy, that should anything untoward happen, 'someone' knows to go to it and unplug it and keep it safe
[08:22] <j0nr> sorry to be pretty morbid so early, but I've been thinking about it.
[08:22] <diplo> j0nr: If for me it was photos, I would be backing up to S3, not solely storing them there
[08:22] <j0nr> lots of accounts, lots of passwords, lots of data... all of which noone else would know to do anything with
[08:22] <diplo> I'd also be keeping a local backup
[08:23] <j0nr> diplo: I have a few different places I keep copies, but yes, they are all in the Cloud... I need to get round to organising a local copy.
[08:23] <diplo> You can write stuff like that into a will as well
[08:23] <j0nr> need to sort my life out!
[08:24] <j0nr> diplo: really?
[08:24] <j0nr> what like "if I die download my stuff from XXX using password XXX"? that would be a pain to keep uo to date if you change passwords frequently
[08:25] <j0nr> Well I am getting my Virgin Media fibre optic broadband soon, so I think I will christen it by downloading ALL my data to a local disk
[08:25] <diplo> yeah, IU expect there are ways around all of it anyway, if you look up on amazon I expect they have a in case of death somewhere that people can retrieve stuff
[08:25] <popey> morning
[08:26] <diplo> I store stuff on my VPS, but I back it all up to my microserver locally
[08:26] <diplo> morning popey
[08:26] <diplo> Did you get that box working in the end btw ?
[08:26] <j0nr> diplo: yes, same here, minus the local copy... I backup my vps to S3
[08:27] <j0nr> what else got me thinking was the annoucement of AWS Galcier, the long term storage...but again, its only good if you keep paying monthly
[08:27] <j0nr> if you die and stop making payments...how long before they erase your data!?
[08:28] <popey> why do you care if you're dead?
[08:28] <j0nr> Glacier*
[08:28] <diplo> tweet them ?
[08:28] <mungojerry> also, they are backups, right?
[08:28] <mungojerry> but if you die, i guess direct debits will continue for a while
[08:28] <j0nr> popey: been thinking, I have a lot of stuff in the Cloud, such as family photos etc... if i suddenly were unable to pay, I wonder how long before my data gets erased
[08:28] <popey> make a note in your will for someone in your estate management to extract the data
[08:29] <mungojerry> how much does a will cost on average? my missis is hassling me
[08:29] <j0nr> popey: this is the thing, with more online accounts available, frequent password changes, noone knows the ins and outs of my personal VPS or S3 storage etc...
[08:30] <diplo> mungojerry: They can vary depending on what you want
[08:30] <mungojerry> write it down, seal the envelope and store it with a solicitor
[08:30] <j0nr> if I ceased today, it would all be lost because no one would think or know to retrieve it
[08:30] <diplo> But mines was about £120 for me and my wife
[08:30] <popey> this worried me recently to
[08:30] <popey> so i have put the password somewhere safe
[08:30] <popey> which someone could use to decrypt my password list
[08:30] <popey> no, not a post-it on my screen
[08:30] <diplo> I need to update mine, otherwise my wife gets the house :(
[08:30] <mungojerry> diplo, how many sessions did you have? i imagine they ask questions you might take a few days to decide
[08:30] <mungojerry> popey, must be under the keyboard then
[08:31] <popey> damnit!
[08:31] <j0nr> popey: so you use a service to manage all passwords, and there is a master password to unlock them all?
[08:31] <diplo> I can't remember exactly now, but basically the guy came to my house, we sat down for a few hours
[08:31] <popey> yes and no
[08:31] <popey> i use lastpass to manage web passwords
[08:31] <diplo> then he went away and came back with it written up and we signed it
[08:31] <j0nr> and you give this to someone "in case something should happen to me"
[08:31] <popey> but for non-web passwords I use a gpg encrypted file
[08:31] <popey> which i edit with vim, and a plugin which automatically decrypts and re-encrypts the file
[08:32] <MartijnVdS> vim-gpg?
[08:32] <mungojerry> having to decide who the kid(s) go to is a bit difficult
[08:32] <MartijnVdS> from vim-scripts?
[08:32] <j0nr> popey: and you let someone you trust know the master password.
[08:32] <popey> no
[08:32] <mungojerry> i have lots of bro and sis, and so does wifey
[08:32] <popey> you hide the password somewhere
[08:32] <popey> and then in the will you explain to that one person you trust, how they can find it
[08:32] <popey> so they dont find out till after you die
[08:33] <j0nr> popey: hmm, good thinking. I need to do this
[08:33] <mungojerry> you could always give one half of password to one person and one to the other executor
[08:33] <popey> yeah
[08:33] <gord> ooh make it a treasure hunt that takes a really conviluted chain of things to complete
[08:33] <gord> most funest will ever
[08:33] <popey> hah
[08:33] <popey> crystal maze
[08:33] <mungojerry> chocolate coins
[08:33] <popey> "first, build a set"
[08:34] <diplo> mungojerry: We sat down and had a long discussion about
[08:34] <diplo> I didn't really agree with her sister but we had to decide on two people, so it was my brother or her sister
[08:34] <mungojerry> i want my kids to be brought up a certain way, so that whittles it down to 2 couples
[08:35] <mungojerry> s/i/we
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: "All of #ubuntu-uk"
[08:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> We set up a discretionary trust in our will. Cost a bit, but protects most of our estate from Inheritance Tax.
[08:36] <mungojerry> ^^ loaded
[08:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Was. :-(
[08:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> And will be again :-D
[08:36] <mungojerry> this time next year?
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> hah - not quite.
[08:37] <mungojerry> i am destined never to inherit a bean off any relatives
[08:37] <mungojerry> it's a good motivator to get out and work
[08:37] <mungojerry> my wife brought savings of £0 into the marriage
[08:37] <diplo> I will from my mum/dad from sale of there house, but that's about it
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> What? NO DOWRY?
[08:38] <mungojerry> i can see how i would be seen as a good catch, she was at uni and i drove a brand new car
[08:38] <diplo> And maybe my gran, she won't spend her money.. wants to give it all to my dad/auntie so she struggles on nothing to give them loads, madness!
[08:38] <mungojerry> although i bought it with redundancy swag
[08:38] <mungojerry> diplo, thats crazy
[08:38] <j0nr> popey: do you have to install lastpass somewhere or is it all managed online?
[08:38] <mungojerry> a little bit of comfort in your old age
[08:38] <popey> lastpass is a browser plugin
[08:39] <diplo> mungojerry: That's what my parents keep telling her, they are forcing her to spend it.
[08:39] <diplo> Just put in central heating in her house with out her permission and made her pay for it
[08:39] <diplo> She's really happy now, but wouldn't have spent it otherwise
[08:39] <diplo> Stubborn glaswegian :)
[08:40]  * diplo gets it from her I think :P
[08:40] <mungojerry> on a diffrent topic i was reminded this morning of a conversation i heard on radio 5, where they said "where can you might nice men", and a woman phoned up and said go to your local LUG as the men are both nice and intelligent
[08:40] <popey> wat!
[08:40] <dwatkins> mungojerry: I assume that was 'meet' ;)
[08:41] <mungojerry> yes, meet not miht
[08:41] <mungojerry> ugh
[08:41] <MartijnVdS> So.. where are "might" and "meet" pronounce the same ;)
[08:41] <MartijnVdS> +d
[08:41] <mungojerry> in my crazy brain
[08:42] <mungojerry> its funny cos i thought LUGs were beer clubs
[08:42] <MartijnVdS> aren't they?
[08:43] <j0nr> popey: lastpass seems to want me to download an 'installer'... how do you use it if you are on a machine where you don't want to download and install anything, e.g. internet cafe?
[08:43] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :)
[08:43] <popey> internet cafe?
[08:44] <popey> is this 2001?
[08:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> keepass + a public/private cloud storage solution works for me.
[08:44] <j0nr> I just mean, a computer that is not mine that I can't install software on
[08:44] <popey> i dont
[08:45] <popey> i have lastpass on my phone so i can look up passwords there if needed
[08:45] <diplo> +1 TheOpenSourcerer
[08:45] <diplo> + android app ( yet to use )
[08:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: I use keepass on android
[08:46] <popey> reboot time!
[08:47] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:52] <diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: Does it work ok, I tried it once a long time ago and couldn't work out how to copy and paste the password over so haven't used it tried since ( was being lazy really )
[08:53] <mungojerry> you can use keepassX and keep it in your u1 folder, but keep the key private
[08:54] <diplo> yea i keep it in my dropbox folder atm ( was before u1 android version, haven't  moved it over yet )
[08:55] <mungojerry> i've noticed that i can't install apps on my phone anymore, claims out of storage
[08:55] <mungojerry> the apps are getting huge , play store, fb, maps , etc
[08:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Works for me.
[08:56] <mungojerry> wondering if i broke something with my phone
[08:57] <mungojerry> running ROM manger fix permissions script...bit scared
[08:58] <mungojerry> seems to be making everything 775 instead of600
[08:58] <diplo> will give it another go TheOpenSourcerer
[09:00] <mungojerry> "A Norwegian court has found that mass killer Anders Behring Breivik is sane and sentenced him to 21 years in jail"
[09:04] <christel> minus the 445 days already served... :o
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> "Anders" means "different" in Dutch
[09:04] <christel> and he'll be out in ten! :o
[09:04] <mungojerry> and protected by the state for the rest of his life?
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> christel: but he won't be able to cross a red light without being taken to the police station, probably
[09:05] <mungojerry> surely some people will be out to get him
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: we have the same "problem" with the guy who killed Pim Fortuyn (politician) a few years ago
[09:07] <mungojerry> is he out of jail?
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> there are still people say they're going to "make him pay" when he gets out
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> not yet
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> but he will be in a few years
[09:08] <christel> ila prison are building (almost finished i believe) a new maximum security unit for him
[09:08] <christel> and he'll be the only prisoner in maximum security in norway
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> christel: does Norway have a system like the Dutch, where people can be sentenced to "involuntary commitment"?
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> christel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment#Netherlands
[09:09] <christel> (technically he could serve life as there are provisions in norwegian legislation to extend the 21 years by 5 years at the time, but by default our "maximum" sentence is 21 years)
[09:10] <christel> yes, which is what the prosecution was pushing for
[09:11] <christel> but the court reckons he is perfectly sane and accountable, so unless they (prosecution) appeal then he wont serve under involuntary commitment
[09:11] <christel> (though there was provisions in place to build a psychiatric hospital within the new maximum security wing of ila for him, i presume that has been put on ice after the judgement)
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> "If you build it, they will come"
[09:12] <christel> hehe
[09:13] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> howdy brobostigon
[09:13] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[09:13] <christel> he intends to study for a degree in political science whilst serving!
[09:14] <brobostigon> morning christel
[09:14] <mungojerry> christel, should be enough evidence of insanity right there!
[09:14] <christel> hehe
[09:15] <mungojerry> political science is surely an oxymoron
[09:15] <zleap> 21 years for killing a lot more than that, that works out at a month or so for each person killed,
[09:16] <christel> his "cell" consists of a room, a study with a computer, a bathroom, a small gym and his own individual "yard" outside
[09:16] <mungojerry> sounds like a teenage boy's dream
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> christel: wasn't that how his home was furnished as well?
[09:16] <zleap> christel, bloody hell,  i would have to pay £150 a night for that in a hotel
[09:16] <christel> and he'll get £6 pounds a day in pocket money, more if he studies/works
[09:16] <zleap> crime pays
[09:16] <mungojerry> in norway
[09:17] <zleap> i am sure in parts of the US he would get 25 years to life for each person killed to be served on after the other
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> but would it help?
[09:17] <mungojerry> well in parts of the US he would sit on a special chair...
[09:17] <christel> he also plans to write (and publish presumably?) books
[09:17] <christel> and to "exchange letters with his followers"
[09:17] <zleap> mungojerry, thats why i said some parts
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> christel: yay prison censors, I guess
[09:19] <mungojerry> since it's friday i think i will trash my phone
[09:20] <Dave2> I'd prefer to get £6 dollars per day, myself
[09:20] <dutchie> mungojerry: i did that last night!
[09:21] <mungojerry> dutchie, how'd it go?
[09:21] <zleap> i would rather that was paid to the victims families out of what ever earnings he gets
[09:21] <dutchie> it works apart from it can't make calls or receive texts
[09:21] <mungojerry> minor
[09:21] <Dave2> so what's the problem
[09:21] <Dave2> who makes calls or receives texts anyway
[09:21] <dutchie> er, send texts
[09:21] <dutchie> receiving them is fine
[09:21] <mungojerry> good excuse
[09:21] <Dave2> who makes calls or sends texts anyway
[09:22] <mungojerry> sorry i'm late home, had to go to a pub meeting but couldn't call or text as you know
[09:22] <mungojerry> dutchie, what did you do btw?
[09:22]  * Dave2 is breaking his PC (by which he means "upgrading from 11.10 to 12.04 on his work machine")
[09:23] <dutchie> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1805450
[09:23] <dutchie> that
[09:24] <mungojerry> hmm did you update your "radio"?
[09:24] <popey> So have we all upgraded to 12.04.1? :)
[09:24] <mungojerry> of course you backed up too...
[09:24] <diplo> I had to when updating my wildfire mungojerry
[09:24] <diplo> for GPS to work
[09:25] <dutchie> mungojerry: yeah
[09:25] <dutchie> i have no idea what updating my radio was
[09:25] <mungojerry> i'm moving from 7.03 to 7.20 CM
[09:25] <daubers> popey: Is your VT100 now running 12.04.1 too?
[09:25] <dutchie> it was just reboot to recovery, wipe and flash rom
[09:25] <popey> its still in the boot of the car
[09:25] <dutchie> (then flash gapps)
[09:25] <popey> need to make room for it
[09:26] <daubers> heh
[09:26] <mungojerry> which phone dutchie
[09:27] <dutchie> htc desire s
[09:27] <mungojerry> did you do this? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15832698&postcount=1
[09:27] <dutchie> hmm, no
[09:27] <dutchie> what is it?
[09:28] <mungojerry> afaik , radio is the firmware for the phone calls/messaging / cell phone stuff
[09:28] <mungojerry> somebody may correct me, but it's independent of the ROM update AFAIK
[09:29] <dutchie> i might investigate that after work
[09:29] <diplo> mungojerry: My gps one was also called a radio update
[09:29] <diplo> and yes was seperate to main cm update
[09:33] <mungojerry> phew, almost delted a load of video files by mistake
[09:33]  * mungojerry uses cp the next time
[09:34] <mungojerry> cd
[09:36] <diplo> yeah my file was called Radio_<IP_ADDRESS>H_<IP_ADDRESS>.zip
[09:36] <diplo> All I know was it needed updating after reading on XDA to get GPS to connect
[09:36] <dutchie> hmm
[09:37] <mungojerry> diplo, what did you update to?
[09:38] <diplo> From a vodaphone rom, to cm7.1 I believe
[09:38] <diplo> <IP_ADDRESS>
[09:38] <mungojerry> hmm i should check my radio
[09:39] <mungojerry> i'm trying to copy files from my phone but the usb disconnects when i try it :S
[09:39] <diplo> Going to update to a nightly soon, but cba atm
[09:39] <mungojerry> there's a stable one out
[09:39] <mungojerry> oh dear , looks like i DID delete the video files :(
[09:41] <diplo> testdisk
[09:41] <diplo> :)
[09:41] <mungojerry> i need a lie down
[09:43] <mungojerry> i think the issue is a dodgy usb cable
[09:49] <bigcalm> I've just added ACL into my fstab. Is there an easy way to remount the / partition without having to reboot the machine?
[09:50] <mungojerry> mount -o remount /blah
[09:50] <bigcalm> That seemed to work. Ta :)
[09:51] <mungojerry> which is also the trick if you have a ronly / , you can type mount -o remount,rw /
[09:51] <diplo> also mount -a should do that as well ?
[09:55] <mungojerry> my employer is inviting staff to tell them their sexual orientation :S
[09:55] <diplo> are they allowed to ask, or is it because it's 'invited' ?
[09:55] <mungojerry> apparently it's due to commitment to equality. i would think that not asking might be better. anyway, results are bound to be unpresentative
[09:57] <BigRedS> I read that as your employer being unsure and wondering if his employees could advise
[09:59] <mungojerry> $EMPLOYER are now recording staff sexual orientation as part of our commitment to equality and diversity.$EMPLOYER wants to promote an inclusive environment where staff can be happy and comfortable in expressing themselves at work, so please update your personal details under the Equal Opportunites page
[09:59] <diplo> Shouldn't make any difference on orientation imo
[10:00] <czajkowski> mungojerry: seems reasonable
[10:00] <czajkowski> maybe they would like to know so they can best plan other things like activies or faciities
[10:00] <czajkowski> *facilities
[10:01] <mungojerry> czajkowski, however whatever stats they receive will be highly varied
[10:02] <mungojerry> since it's not compulsory, some people want recognition and others would rather not divulge
[10:02] <mungojerry> i tend to think its better in private sector where you just dont talk about it. i tend to think the current environment worse for women to work than my experience of private sector (bar one example)
[10:03]  * czajkowski is not getting going to get into this discussion again :)
[10:03] <czajkowski> ----> vanishes
[10:03] <mungojerry> oh yeah..lol
[10:04] <mungojerry> forgot about that OScon thing
[10:06] <mungojerry> wow my phone is shagged. all apps say "insufficient storage available" when try to update them
[10:06] <mungojerry> i blame the SDmaid software i installed the other week
[10:08] <diplo> oimon had those issues mungojerry
[10:08] <mungojerry> :D
[10:08] <diplo> I'd read up on it for a friend, they had found that there were some log files in /system i think
[10:08] <diplo> there are apps to find/clear that as long as you are rooted.
[10:09] <oimon> i think it was sdmaid that shagged it
[10:10] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:12] <oimon> i wonder if there's any reason why my employer might want to know my religion too
[10:13] <wintellect> oimon: under what pretense did they ask?
[10:15] <oimon> in the initial registration with hr i believe. but they've added sexual preferences subsequently and ask/invite  (not compulsory) you to update
[10:15] <oimon> via the e-hr system
[10:15] <directhex> oimon, statistics
[10:15] <oimon> but those statistics are useless
[10:15] <directhex> oimon, they can't legally discriminate in the uk on the basis of religion, but they can anonymously gather statistics
[10:15] <oimon> since they are personal matters and people have good reason not to divulge, and not all are giving results
[10:16] <directhex> someone in HR will still make a pretty pie chart
[10:16] <directhex> and use it to prove that your company employs people from diverse backgrounds
[10:16] <oimon> i agree its so they can say, hey look we are diverse employer , 20% of staff are muslim etc
[10:16] <directhex> which is a requirement in many tendering applications
[10:17] <oimon> but those stats are gonna be rubbish as not properly representative
[10:17] <directhex> e.g. i have received bids before which are 50% "look, we employ the gays! we turn off our lights at night" bullpoop that oxford's university tendering process demanded
[10:17] <oimon> similarly heere we have green schemes but the air con units are left on 24x7 in offices and meeting rooms
[10:18] <directhex> as long as boxes can be ticked, nobody cares
[10:18] <oimon> yes, sadly
[10:18] <oimon> thats the truth. and to a mathematician (even pure maths person), thats sad
[10:20] <BigRedS> It's quite hard to retrofit 'greenness' to a building
[10:20] <directhex> bucket o' paint, job jobbed.
[10:20] <oimon> its more a people culture here though. some people run the ac units at the lowest setting even on cold day
[10:21] <oimon> everyone else is in coats
[10:21] <directhex> our aircon throughout the office gets turned off automatically at 5:10pm.
[10:21] <directhex> this is vexing because it includes my server cupboard
[10:21] <oimon> lol
[10:25] <oimon> what's the benefit of backing up system data with titanium restore?
[10:26] <bigcalm> Keeping application data between reinstalls
[10:26] <oimon> isn't that the app data option?
[10:26]  * bigcalm shrugs
[10:28] <bigcalm> Anybody here use zsh?
[10:38] <christel> my parents confuse me :(
[10:38] <directhex> honey badgers confuse me
[10:39] <bigcalm> Confucius confuse me
[10:39] <christel> yesterday i nearly crashed my dad's car because i got so distracted by the video from the rear camera that i totally didn't look where i was going
[10:39] <bigcalm> A reversing camera in a _car_?
[10:39] <christel> today my mum is all "could you just go check the camera for our house in the island to see what the weather is like? oh and whilst you're logged in could you just turn the heating on so that it is nice when we get out there in the evening?"
[10:40] <christel> bigcalm: indeed
[10:40] <bigcalm> A big car?
[10:40] <christel> not particularly
[10:40] <bigcalm> Ooo, remote heating controls
[10:41] <christel> they are becoming way too technogeeky for me!
[10:41] <bigcalm> Hehe
[10:41] <bigcalm> My parents brought me up to be a geek but I'm still giving them tech support
[10:41] <christel> bigcalm: expensive car though! i spent the rest of the day terrified of totalling it purely because i knew that it cost upwards of £80K
[10:42] <bigcalm> Ah, maybe this is why they brought me up to be a geek in the 1st place!
[10:42] <christel> (who the hell spends that much on a car?!)
[10:42] <bigcalm> Haha, oh dear
[10:42] <oimon> scandies
[10:42] <christel> oimon: hehe yeah
[10:42] <christel> he also religiously replaces his cars every 18 months as he doesn't like "old cars"
[10:43]  * oimon discovers i have £42 in my amazon account unspent
[10:43] <oimon> christel, wow, not even a 36 month old car is old
[10:45] <christel> my freenode volunteers have decided that i must have grown up in a palace, it confuses them that i keep going to our several different houses whilst in norway
[10:46] <oimon> summer+winter?
[10:48] <christel> kinda -- we have two "summerhouses" on the coast, one about 3 hours drive south of where we live (where we're off to shortly) and another 5 hours drive further north, we also have an old farm (though i believe that is being sold, it is no longer a working farm and hasnt been for as long as i can remember) about an hour and a half away from home up in the mountain, a smaller house in the mountain just at the arctic circle (so just ...
[10:48] <christel> ... an hour away from home) and a log cabin in a wintery lovely place down south (trysil)
[10:48] <christel> (and then o course home)
[10:48] <christel> oh and two largeish boats (i am terrified of water!)
[10:48] <oimon> sounds like how the russian royalty used to live
[10:50]  * diplo is jealous of christel
[11:10] <Mr_Tinkles|Work> hi
[11:11] <Mr_Tinkles|Work> what is a good spectrum emulator?
[11:12] <daubers> Mr_Tinkles|Work: A spectrum!
[11:12] <Mr_Tinkles|Work> daubers, yeah, if only mine still worked (bad read heads on tape drive and bad power caps)
[11:16] <popey> the fact that you're asking about spectrum emulators with the word "Work" in your nick amuses me
[11:17] <gord> fwiw, Fuse ;)
[11:18] <Mr_Tinkles|Work> popey, yeah, its kinda co insidental
[11:30] <daubers> Mr_Tinkles|Work: I have a 48k I was going to take the mobo out of at some point if that would help you (as yuours has a tape drive I assume it's the 128?)~
[11:30] <Mr_Tinkles|Work> daubers, thar might help
[11:31] <Mr_Tinkles|Work> daubers, yes its a 128
[11:32] <daubers> Mr_Tinkles|Work: Or take it to your local hackspace (tm) I know ours has an original 48k (with rubber keys) lying around.
[11:32] <dutchie> daubers: weren't you going to do something interesting with the spectrum?
[11:33] <Mr_Tinkles|Work> daubers, in fact the mobo has some bad diodes and caps so yeah
[11:34] <daubers> dutchie: I'm going to put a modern mobo in it
[11:34] <daubers> When I have a)time and b) cash :)
[11:34] <Mr_Tinkles|Work> daubers, don't know what workspace ™ is
[11:34] <Mr_Tinkles|Work> *hackapace
[11:34] <Mr_Tinkles|Work> hackspace
[11:34] <daubers>  /o\
[11:34] <daubers> They are like the most awesome places in the world ever!
[11:35] <daubers> http://hackspace.org.uk/view/Main_Page
[11:35] <dutchie> must get on with my hackspace project at some point
[11:35] <Laney> better than the inside of a marshmallow?
[11:35] <Laney> I THINK NOT
[11:35] <Mr_Tinkles|Work> daubers, I see
[11:36] <daubers> Laney: The inside of a marshmallow is fluffy and tasty, but still falls to ruin when you add hot chocoalte
[11:36] <daubers> hackspace + hot chocolate = win
[11:36] <oimon> i think i've royally shagged my phone:(
[11:36] <gord> hackspaces are like the communal modern version of dads shed
[11:37] <daubers> then hot chocolate + marshamallow = win
[11:37] <daubers> so therefore marshmallow = hackspace = win ?
[11:37] <daubers> gord: But with LASERS!
[11:37] <oimon> so toasted marshmallow?
[11:37] <daubers> and robots!
[11:38]  * daubers may have had too much sugar
[11:38] <oimon> i officially work in the most disgusting office in the world
[11:38] <oimon> someone's been wiping bogeys on the wall
[11:38] <oimon> and we don't have any 9yr olds working here
[11:39] <daubers> oimon: Draw around them with a sharpey and put a post it note next to it saying "I know who this was...."
[11:39] <daubers> then nerf the worried looking person?
[11:39] <oimon> i thought i knew who it was, but they left and the colection has grown
[11:40] <penguin42> oimon: Don't you have a DNA sample of all your colleagues?
[11:41] <oimon> i don';t even read their mail
[11:51] <oimon> it always surprises me that there are IT support staff i know who use ubuntu on their work PC but always use the defaults and never know about whats the best handy app to use etc. i.e. they are average joe users, despite being clever techies at their job
[12:15] <AlanBell> https://www.tickets.london2012.com more tickets have been released
[12:25] <gareth_> Hi everyone
[12:25] <gareth_> I did one of the most satisfying things there is to do yesterday, who can guess what it is?
[12:26] <bigcalm> gareth_: opened a new jar of coffee?
[12:26] <bigcalm> Breaking the seal is wonderful
[12:27] <oimon> make pancakes without ruining the first one?
[12:27] <brobostigon> flipped a pancake, wioth messing it up?
[12:27]  * penguin42 wonders if gareth_ has been getting enough roughage
[12:27] <gareth_> Nah, buy a new laptop and wipe Windows without even giving it the chance to complete the first boot!
[12:27] <oimon> did you get a refund?
[12:27] <oimon> \o/
[12:29] <gareth_> Next question, why am I on this nick and not my normal one?
[12:29] <cliftonts> That's better
[12:30] <cliftonts> This laptop has real issues.  The sound is horrid, the keyboard broke after 4 HOURS!
[12:31] <cliftonts> However Ubuntu seems unwell too. An 11.10 install upgraded to 12.04 as those were the only discs I had. The window controls are showing up on the right. Now why would that happen?
[12:36] <oimon> cliftonts, what happens if you create a fresh user and login?
[12:42] <cliftonts> Good question oimon. I'll give it a go
[12:45] <oimon> lost all my SMS messages :( i thought titanium would bring thiem back
[12:52] <cliftonts> Right, creating a new user fixes it
[12:54] <oimon> unity --reset might fix it for your normal user too
[12:57] <directhe`> u-ni-ty
[12:57] <directhe`> easy as
[12:57] <directhe`> one two three
[12:57] <directhe`> or simple as
[12:57] <directhe`> do re mi
[12:57] <directhe`> u-ni-ty, one two three, baby, you and me girl!
[13:02] <oimon> does a little dance .............\o/
[13:04] <cliftonts> The other issue is my browser went monochrome
[13:04] <cliftonts> it's of now but everything was grey
[13:06] <cliftonts> the reset didn't fix it but of course I can install a tweak tool to sort it, I'm just curious about why it's happened in the first place
[13:14]  * davmor2 prods christel about postcards and czajkowski just cause I haven't :D
[13:21] <cliftonts> oimon?
[13:21] <oimon> yes?
[13:22] <Azelphur> does anyone else use thunderbird+gmail? it seems very slow to load mails for me for some reason
[13:22] <oimon> Azelphur, turn off the local download of data
[13:22] <oimon> it's on by default
[13:22] <Azelphur> like 14 seconds to download a small plaintext mail lol
[13:23] <Azelphur> ok :p
[13:23] <diplo> Azelphur: yeah i use it, think it sucks though.. use web interface more
[13:23] <cliftonts> Can anyone remember what the tweak tool was that included the option to switch the location of the window controls?
[13:24] <cliftonts> I know there's one out there but forget what it's called.
[13:24] <oimon> unsettings/ubuntu tweak/
[13:24] <Azelphur> oimon: happen to know where that setting is?
[13:24] <oimon> Azelphur, right click the folder
[13:25] <oimon> properties ->sync
[13:25] <oimon> disable offline use
[13:25] <Azelphur> oimon: seems to already be disabled
[13:26] <oimon> there's also a more general setting which i disable too
[13:26] <oimon> you could maybe disable global search and indexer if you only use the filters
[13:27]  * Azelphur shrugs
[13:28] <Azelphur> doubt that's gonna shave 14 seconds off, I mean I'm on a very fast machine and thunderbird isn't pulling a lot of resources
[13:29] <diplo> I keep meaning to re-try evolution again
[13:30] <oimon> haha
[13:30] <oimon> ev--crash---o---crash---l--crash...
[13:31] <cliftonts> All sorted!
[13:44] <oimon> anyone know where is the setting on android that disables the unlock passcode for 5 minutes after entering it ?
[13:45] <oimon> ah got it in cyanogen settings
[14:09] <oimon> interesting: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/yr180/thats_why_we_cant_have_nice_pdfs/
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> oimon: nah
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> you don't want to depend on imagemagick, because it's not a small single-purpose library.. it does ALL the things
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> also, it contains parsers for all kinds of file formats.. which the other libs used already do
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> heh
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> if you Google for "keming", it reduces letter spacing so "kerning" looks like "keming" (etc.)
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> and looking for "kerning" increases letter spacing
[14:17] <BigRedS> I need to make a deb file out of a pear module. Is there some officially-sanctioned way of doing it?
[14:17] <oimon> couldn't it be enabled depending on whether you had imagemagick installed though?
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> http://pear-package.alioth.debian.org/ ?
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: ^
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: that has explainings
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> oimon: it needed to be compiled like that anyway..
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> oimon: better to find/write a library (or fix the current one) that does just the one required thing
[14:18] <oimon> yes true
[14:18] <oimon> nobody gonna do that though
[14:20] <oimon> i wanna try kde 4.9 on a live cd - any suggestions?
[14:21] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, doesn't appear to apply to Squeeze, though. And I'm not sure why I'd need to apt-get source php5...
[14:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's West dean Chilli Fiesta Weekend :-D
[14:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.westdean.org.uk/Events/GardenEvents/ChilliFiesta.aspx
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: for compiled modules with bits of C?
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> (think XS in Perl, Python has something similar as well)
[14:25] <BigRedS> Ah yeah, I suppose
[14:26] <BigRedS> I forgot they did that sometimes :)
[14:40] <MartijnVdS> heh.. http://satwcomic.com/gangnam-style
[14:47]  * oimon mrembers to get the humble bundle android
[14:47] <BigRedS> Hm. Think I'll just build this on my machine and stick the .so file in a deb package; seems easiest :)
[15:07] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: that's how packaging works.. except in a clean chroot (pbuilder)
[15:16] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, I just assumed all the cruft inthe tgz was there for some reason; I've built packages for installing scripts before
[15:22] <penguin42> hmm, electricity suppliers are a pain; they can't guarantee when a transfer will go live, but I don't want it to happen before the end of my current tarriff
[15:23] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: mine switched last Monday.. but I still haven't received the card with which I can tell them the meter readings
[15:23] <MartijnVdS> (so they don't guesstimate)
[15:24] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh it took EDF when I transfered to them 6 months to sort out their online system to let me give them a gas reading
[15:26] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: But then they did take the figure I'd recorded back then
[15:30] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: I've switched to "Nuon, part of Vattenfall"
[15:32] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: I doubt they'll do the UK
[15:32] <MartijnVdS> Vattenfall is in the UK
[15:34] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: As a windfarm builder by the looks of it, not a supplier
[15:35] <MartijnVdS> ah yes
[15:46] <diplo> Anyone know anything about kacpid
[15:46] <diplo> And why all of sudden it would use 100% cpu, not kernel update and been fine
[15:46] <diplo> Temps ?
[15:46] <diplo> Can't install lm_sensors ( not supported ) and not shown in snmp results
[15:47] <penguin42> there are a few reports of that happening to people
[15:47] <diplo> yeah found the same, can't find a good answer and the server is a couple of 100 miles away :D
[15:48] <diplo> Old and probab;y quite rubbish
[15:48] <penguin42> ah that's annoying - so you don't fancy doing a remote bios upgrade then :-)
[15:49] <diplo> heh
[15:49] <diplo> NO :)
[15:50] <diplo> acp=off on cmd line if they don't want to open it to seem if fans aren't working
[15:50] <diplo> if it goes bang it's there problem
[15:50] <diplo> :)
[15:50] <penguin42> diplo: Some suggestions of repeatedly restarting acpi stuff sometimes fix it
[15:51] <penguin42> also running apid -d  to get some debug from it
[15:51] <diplo> Resource busy
[15:51] <diplo> :P
[15:52] <diplo> what happens if i stop acpid any ideas ?
[15:53] <penguin42> diplo: Well, you're too far away to see the smoke....
[15:54] <diplo> Really old kernel, would it be that dependant on it :/
[15:56] <diplo> I still feel it's a hardware fault, or temp problem as nothings changed software wise
[16:04] <penguin42> anything in dmesg?
[16:05] <diplo> nope, nothing anywhere.. tried installing lm_sensors but IBM's aren't supported and then installed snmp but you need some paid for IBM software to get snmp oid stuff from their agent
[16:05] <diplo> I think someones going to have to visit the site
[16:08] <penguin42> temperatures off the hard drives with SMART?
[16:08] <penguin42> what's the server monitoring thing that starts with i... the one over ether
[16:08] <diplo> icinga ?
[16:09] <diplo> smart not installed, may try that tuesday though
[16:09] <penguin42> bah, can't remember - the one that's used for remote control
[16:09] <penguin42> bah
[16:10] <diplo> most of these tools are dependant on snmp/lm info from what I know/can find out
[16:11] <penguin42> ah, ipmi was what I was thinking of
[16:11] <diplo> Ooh that's new one on me
[16:11]  * diplo quickly googles
[16:12] <penguin42> probably won't help you
[16:12] <penguin42> diplo: Do you have a /sys/class/hwmon at all?
[16:12] <Darael> I discovered this morning that I'd accidentally uninstalled all the kernel images from my exlaptop^Wserver.  Then, after using the minimal CD to get in with rescue mode and fix that, I rebooted to find the initrd didn't have lvm tools in it.
[16:13] <penguin42> haha that's a pain
[16:13] <diplo> Nope penguin42
[16:13] <penguin42> oh well
[16:14] <penguin42> diplo: You could force reboot it with sysctl and see if it comes back :-)
[16:14]  * MartijnVdS quits jsing for the day
[16:14] <Darael> I fixed it.  Turned out the same accident had removed the lvm2 package, so I just had to go back into rescue mode, install it, and update-initramfs -u -k all.  It was still annoying.
[16:14] <diplo> Server reboots fine penguin42, but kapcid goes 100% pretty much straight away
[16:15] <penguin42> hmm
[16:15] <Darael> But it was a valuable learning experience:  A system will keep running quite happily for days after one uninstalls all the kernels, and one won't find out until reboot unless one goes looking for it.
[16:15] <em> ikonia: are you here?
[16:15] <penguin42> diplo: what cpu/vintage?
[16:16] <diplo> Intel Xeon 3.4ghx from dmidecode
[16:17] <diplo> I think it's a xSeries 225
[16:17] <penguin42> diplo: You could try a modprobe coretemp and see if you get any hwmon entries
[16:17] <diplo> from what I can work out from serial
[16:17] <diplo> ooh tried a few modprobes but not coretemp
[16:17] <diplo> ta
[16:17] <diplo> not found
[16:17] <diplo> :/
[16:18] <penguin42> hmph
[16:19] <diplo> I'll let the other guys sort it out ( I'm supposed to be software now adays ) I've tried about 100 things more than they have and still got no where
[16:19] <diplo> + i finished at 5 :D
[16:19] <penguin42> diplo: Consider how good the server has been to you previously .....
[16:20] <ikonia> em: sorry, didn't see, I wasn't active in this channel but I'm here now.
[16:20] <diplo> yeah, 100% mate.. these are out customers who hate spending cash, you really don't want to see what runs out systems in some places
[16:20] <ikonia> em: whats up ?
[16:20] <diplo> penguin42: Thanks for your input though
[16:20] <penguin42> np
[16:20] <diplo> A few extra things i hadn't tried
[16:22] <em> Am I correct in assuming that ikonia is Joffrey Baratheon?
[16:23] <ikonia> em: you've made that joke approx 3 times that I'm aware of now....you've pinged me to tell me that again......
[16:23] <ikonia> em: is there a reason you are trying to waste my time ?
[16:23] <em> ikonia: I want to know how long Ive been banned in #ubuntu and why
[16:24] <ikonia> em: well, you know the channel is #ubuntu-ops and you know why I've explained it approx 3 times, but if you join one of the operators can help you
[16:24] <diplo> catch you all later, off to pick up a puppy for dog sitting duties for the night
[16:26] <em> ikonia: why should I have go to into that inappropriate channel when you were the one who set the ban, inappropriately, and you dont even know how long it has been or why.
[16:27] <ikonia> em: I do know why, as I've explained to you 3 times, that is the appropriate channel to discuss ban resolution and I know exactly how long as it's logged, I'm not discussing it with you in this channel, one of the operators can help you in #ubuntu-ops
[16:27] <AlanBell> em: please take the conversation to -ops, it will not continue here
[16:27] <em> AlanBell: it is well known that #ubuntu-ops is filled with trolls who damage the image of Ubuntu.
[16:27] <AlanBell> off you go now o/
[16:47] <christel> :o
[16:48] <davmor2> christel: is that a troll face?
[16:48] <christel> yus!
[16:49] <christel> or my "it is raining and i am wet face"
[16:50] <dutchie> hmm, rain
[16:50]  * dutchie hopes it has stopped so he can have a dry dog walk and not a wet dog walk
[18:03] <davmor2> christel: just tell the rain to go away, I mean you're obviously a scary troll so that should work right ;)
[18:07] <darkham> hi people, i need help about an upgrade of mesa drivers on ubuntu 10.04
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> urr
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> why not upgrade the entire machine to 12.04 (the new long-term stable release)
[18:07] <darkham> i can't use ubuntu 12.04 in a pc with an R300 ati card, i've random freezes
[18:08] <MartijnVdS> Why do you need to upgrade mesa then?
[18:08] <darkham> MartijnVdS, because for R300 cards, many tweaks and important updates, was releases later the 7.7.1
[18:09] <darkham> the only inside ubuntu 10.04
[18:09] <penguin42> darkham: Your chance of getting it to work mixed between 10.04 and 12.04 are approximately nill
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> darkham: and 12.04 ;)
[18:09] <davmor2> darkham: but then you wind up with the version in 12.04
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> darkham: I think it'll be easier to get rid of the hangs in 12.04
[18:09]  * penguin42 agrees with MartijnVdS
[18:11] <darkham> penguin42, MartijnVdS , in 12.04 i've random freezes, i can only hard reset, no alt+SystR REISUB
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> darkham: try opening a ssh session to a remote machine, start "tail -f /var/log/Xorg.0.log" and wait for a crash
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> That helped us figure out some crashes on my coworker's machine (by googling the error messages)
[18:13] <darkham> MartijnVdS, not so bad...
[18:14] <darkham> but in forums many users have my same problem, related in some xorg bug
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[18:14] <darkham> MartijnVdS, i can tell you that before the latest kernel update, i haven't any problem.
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> so it's a kernel bug?
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> Maybe try the Quantal kernel (12.10 alpha)
[18:15] <darkham> i suspect...but i don't remember an upgrade of xorg
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> between releases, Xorg tends to be upgraded
[18:16] <darkham> i tried a daily build, and i had the issue.
[18:16]  * MartijnVdS switched to Intel a while ago
[18:27] <JamesTait> Have a great weekend, everyone!
[18:27]  * JamesTait waves
[18:27] <MartijnVdS> \o JamesTait
[18:31] <WebPigeon__> darkham, it's possibly the updated drivers causing the problem...
[18:32] <darkham> WebPigeon__, possibily. the mesa inside 12.04 are 8.x branch
[18:33] <darkham> the latest mesa officially supporting R300 cards are the 7.11.2
[18:34] <darkham> that i would try to install on the 10.04
[18:34] <popey> evening all
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> \o popey
[18:34] <brobostigon> evening popey
[18:39] <popey> uhoh
[18:39] <popey> haha
[18:40] <popey> popey sets ban on  *!*em@unaffiliated/emma
[18:40] <AlanBell> heh, we had a chat about appropriate use of this channel
[18:41] <davmor2> popey: made the mistake of saying that the ops were trolls
[18:42] <AlanBell> davmor2: Ubuntu and UK and random other stuff here, not ops discussions
[18:43] <AlanBell> speaking of which, it is NEARLY CHRISTMAS!!!
[18:43] <zleap> oops
[18:43] <davmor2> AlanBell: indeed, but ops aren't trolls, they are nice people doing a crappy job.
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: only A FEW MONTHS
[18:44] <AlanBell> davmor2: yes, they are
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: want a bag of pepernoten? :)
[18:44]  * davmor2 tapes AlanBell 's fingers shut so he can't type about xmas again
[18:45] <AlanBell> mmmhmmm mmmhm mmmm </kenny from South Park>
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepernoot
[18:46] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I like the look of your pepper nuts
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: they're "Sinterklaas" candy (December 5th), but stores start stocking it ~now-ish.
[18:58] <Azelphur> yay google, apparently I can watch movies from google play just fine on my tablet, but if I want to watch them on my PC I'm in the wrong country
[18:58] <davmor2> oh well it's about that time have a great weekend everyone
[19:57] <davmor2> Moo
[20:04] <oly> Evening, wonder if any one can answer me this, has HAL been replaced in current ubuntu, i have run a program i wrote a while ago and noticed hal is not installed ?
[20:05] <oly> Obviously i could just install it, but thought i would check if there is something else i should be using
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> udev
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> what kind of device are you accessing?
[20:13] <oly> um, custom i had this code before self.hal_manager_obj = self.bus.get_object("org.freedesktop.Hal", "/org/freedesktop/Hal/Manager")
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> yes, that's just the hal manager
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> But what do you use it?
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> for
[20:13] <oly> I will look up how to do something similar with udev
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> there's udisks for disk stuff.. and upower for power related things
[20:13] <oly> usb detection, so i knwo when a device is pllugged in so i can act on it
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> ah
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> libusb can do that
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> or if it's a one-off, an udev rule
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> (which fires a program once when a USB event you're interested in occurs)
[20:15] <oly> well its more detect the device, so i can read and write data to it
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> libusb?
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> there's libudev
[20:16] <oly> maybe i shall look into these thanks, all i knwo is i wrote it using hal a while back :)
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> yeah they figured out HAL wasn't the best possible idea a few years back
[20:17] <oly> yeah i figured i was just behind the times :)
[20:25] <GaryLittlemore> Any idea why my system isn't upgrading to 12.04.1?
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> GaryLittlemore: because you didn't tell it to? :)
[20:26] <AlanBell> GaryLittlemore: what is it at the moment?
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> GaryLittlemore: what are you running now?
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> if you were running 12.04 before, you'll have 12.04.1 automatically after installing all (security) fixes
[20:26] <GaryLittlemore> 12.04, run the software updater and no new updates?
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> GaryLittlemore: check /etc/issue
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> and lsb_release -a
[20:28] <GaryLittlemore> in noob language where do you mean?
[20:28] <AlanBell> GaryLittlemore: nothing exciting will happen for you, it is more exciting for the 10.04 people who will now be offered the distribution upgrade
[20:28] <AlanBell> GaryLittlemore: cat /etc/issue
[20:28] <MartijnVdS> GaryLittlemore: where are you seeing you're running 12.04?
[20:28] <AlanBell> in a terminal
[20:29] <GaryLittlemore> system settings> details> 12.04 LTS
[20:30] <oly> huh, did not know you could go that gui route, however that is not accurate :p
[20:30] <oly> mine says 12.04 in the gui but i am in fact on 12.04.1
[20:31] <GaryLittlemore> so how do I check in terminal?
[20:31] <AlanBell> mine says 12.04 LTS and I am on 12.10 Quantal
[20:31] <oly> GaryLittlemore, do what has been suggested though, open a terminal and type in lsb_release -a then hit enter :)
[20:31] <AlanBell> someone should file a bug about that . . .
[20:32] <oly> yep, still undecided weather to update to 12.10, tempted to play with the new unity panel stuff
[20:32] <GaryLittlemore> oh thanks, it'll try that now. don't know commands in terminal
[20:33] <oly> I usually go through the development cycles but have not this time for some reason
[20:33] <GaryLittlemore> Distributor ID:	Ubuntu
[20:33] <GaryLittlemore> Description:	Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS
[20:33] <GaryLittlemore> Release:	12.04
[20:33] <GaryLittlemore> Codename:	precise
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> so.. you're on 12.04.1
[20:33] <AlanBell> yay, you already have it
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> :)
[20:33] <GaryLittlemore> lol Thanks all
[20:43] <AlanBell> so what is the thing that is system settings?
[20:43]  * popey is filing a bug
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> popey: again?
[20:44] <popey> :)
[20:44] <popey> about the above
[20:45] <popey> bug 1041369
[20:45] <popey> if anyone fancies confirming
[20:45] <penguin42> has anyone managed to get Linux onto a Blackberry playbook?
[20:46] <penguin42> they're stupidly cheap; PC World is sellling the 64GB one off for #129
[20:48] <penguin42> hmph, no one has broken the boot loader
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> no one has one
[20:49] <penguin42> almost worth it for the components
[20:50] <ali1234> i'm sure that is not true
[20:52] <penguin42> ali1234: What's interesting is if you look at the price differences between the 16,32,64GB versions of tablets, they're massive difference - but the cost isn't that great between them
[20:53] <smarqle> I have a puzzle with Ubuntu on my netbook - it's first time I installed on there and during the install procedure Webcam was supported, to add my pic, but when I restarted it was no longer supported. Why would that be? I don't want to use the webcam, but it has left me very curious
[20:54] <ali1234> did you update?
[20:54] <ali1234> most likely the driver was broken in an update
[20:54] <ali1234> it happens all the time with webcams
[20:54] <smarqle> Good point. That makes sense
[20:54] <ali1234> also what app are you using?
[20:55] <ali1234> if the answer is "cheese" then ... well, find something better
[20:55] <smarqle> The system didn't install any
[20:55] <smarqle> I don't know what the live CD was using
[20:55] <ali1234> the thing in the installer that takes a picture of you?
[20:55] <smarqle> Yeah
[20:56] <ali1234> i don't know what that is but it isn't cheese
[20:56] <ali1234> so what are you using post-install?
[20:57] <smarqle> I don't want to use the webcam so I haven't bothered, I was just curious and your answer makes perfect sense to me. I'd be amazed if you weren't right, so I'm satisfied now
[20:57] <ali1234> how do you know it doesn't work then?
[20:58] <smarqle> Well I presumed if it was supported the software would have been installed?
[20:58] <ali1234> ...how do you know the software isn't installed?
[20:59] <ali1234> ubuntu always installs the exact same software no matter what
[20:59] <smarqle> When I use lshw it doesn't show up
[21:00] <penguin42> smarqle: If you use lsusb does it show up? If you unplug it and plug it back in does lsusb show up? If you plug it into a powered hub does it show up?
[21:00] <ali1234> it's a netbook
[21:00] <ali1234> it has a built in webcam
[21:00] <penguin42> ah ok
[21:00] <smarqle> It's a built in Webcam why would it be on the USB port?
[21:00] <ali1234> because they always are
[21:00] <smarqle> I could try that OK
[21:01] <penguin42> smarqle: I hadn't noticed it was internal - but it probably is internally connected via usb
[21:02] <smarqle> you're right it does show with lsusb - I  never thought of that (dummyme)
[21:02] <penguin42> ok, that's good
[21:04] <smarqle> I guess it is supported then but software isn't installed, which is fine by me. I'm not the sort of age where a cam shows me in a very good light anyway :)
[21:07] <smarqle> I'm very impressed with Unity on a netbook - it never made sense to me on a larger screen to be honest
[21:12] <smarqle> So everything on her works except for the built in bluetooth. I was going to look up what hardware is in here and see if there are drivers available for that chipset, unless you know a short cut?
[21:22] <smarqle> Is there a command to probe the bluetooth hardware by any chance?
[21:37] <BigRedS> what do you want to probe it for? Find out what it is?
[21:38] <BigRedS> lshw and lspci are good tools for getting details about hardware, there's a good deal of overlap in their utility
[21:38]  * BigRedS reads back and sees that lshw has already been tried
[23:31] <n1md4> anyone use iscsi much?
[23:32]  * penguin42 has played with it in the past
[23:36] <n1md4> ok, i'm trying, and have an output from my remote client from vgdisplay.  being a xen box i'm using the export iscsi vg for vms, but when i try to boot a client from said vg i get "Error: Disk isn't accessible"
[23:37] <n1md4> and although lvdisplay shows /dev/vg/lv there's actually nothing in /dev/vg to connect, so indeed, the disk is not accessible.
[23:37] <n1md4> so, i'd like te know how it can be?
[23:39] <penguin42> hmm, I don't know Xen
[23:40] <penguin42> but that sounds like you have lvm set up to export lvm lv's as iscsi targets
[23:40] <n1md4> ah ... figured it out, the lv status' were inactive.  I had to use vgchange -ay vg in order to bring it back
[23:40] <penguin42> right, yeh that's lvm layer
[23:40] <n1md4> I want to figure out how to get all this to happen automagically
[23:42] <n1md4> there's also 2 sides to this, the iscsi host failing, and the xen host failing ... lovely!
[23:43] <penguin42> n1md4: I'm not quite sure I understand your setup; I guess it's a xen host with some space that's a volume group, of which one or more logical volumes is exported as iscsi to the guest - or is the iscsi on a separate machine?


[00:06] <bigjools> smoser: anyone can, docs are in the source.
[00:06] <bigjools> what's up?
[00:27] <smoser> bigjools, theres just some invalid stuff there.
[00:27] <bigjools> file a bug
[00:32] <smoser> bigjools, https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/maas/fix-ephem-doc/+merge/205675
[00:33] <bigjools> ta
[00:34] <bigjools> approved, it's landing now
[00:35] <bigjools> I'll regenerate the website docs a bit later
[00:51] <bjf> bigjools, if i want to take a node that is currently provisioned with saucy and reprovision it with precise do i need to delete the node from maas an go through a complete discovery/commisioning/allocation ?
[00:52] <bigjools> bjf: provisioned meaning "allocated" ?
[00:52] <bjf> bigjools, sure, maas fully installed saucy on it
[00:52] <bjf> bigjools, and now i want to put precise on it
[00:52] <bigjools> and it's up and allocated to a user?
[00:53] <bjf> bigjools, it's allocated to "maas" so my maas user i guess
[00:53] <bigjools> ok
[00:53] <bigjools> are you using the maas ui?
[00:53] <bigjools> or juju?
[00:53] <bjf> i'm not doing any juju, i'm trying to just use the maas-cli
[00:54] <bigjools> ok, stop the node, change its default series, then start it up again
[00:54] <bigjools> no need to delete - maas is better than that
[00:54] <bigjools> it's a cloud-like resource, remember
[00:54] <bjf> ok, i'll try that, i had no luck with that earlier, but i'll try it again
[00:54] <bigjools> you have to edit the node's default series
[00:55] <bjf> ack
[01:45] <bjf>  doing a "maas-cli <user> nodes list" doesn't show the "Release" or "Power parameters" for the nodes
[01:46] <bigjools> don't know what you mean by Release, but you need to be admin to see power IIRC
[01:46] <bjf> bigjools, Release is what will be installed on the node (saucy, precise, etc.). i am using the admin account
[01:47] <bigjools> oh, series
[01:47] <bjf> bigjools, the UI says "Release" but yes, the series
[01:47] <bigjools> hmm ok I think the power thing was something we wanted to show to admins only but didn't get around to it yet
[01:47] <bjf> ack
[01:47] <bigjools> power has creds in it
[01:48] <bigjools> and yes the distro series is not returned in the api data
[01:51] <bigjools> bjf: just read your email, still having cdu trouble?
[01:53] <bjf> bigjools, yes, unfortunately
[01:53] <bjf> bigjools, i'm able to work around it right now while i learn the ins and outs of MAAS
[01:53] <bigjools> bjf: it could be a bug in the template for cdu, but it's what we use in the QA lab so it ought to work
[01:54] <bjf> bigjools, i looked at the template and it looked right to me, it looked exacly like what i can do from the command line
[01:54] <bjf> bigjools, so, that's why i'm confused
[01:54] <bigjools>     ${fence_cdu} -a ${power_address} -n ${power_id} -l ${power_user} -p ${power_pass} -o "$@"
[01:55] <bjf> exactly
[01:55] <bigjools> ok
[01:55] <bigjools> are you issuing the command from the same machine as the cluster controller that would issue it?
[01:55] <bjf> yes
[01:56] <bigjools> can you see the power_on task appearing in the celery.log on the cluster?
[01:58] <bjf> got a traceback
[01:59] <bjf> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6912536/
[02:00] <bigjools> that's a power_off command failing
[02:00] <bjf> bigjools, i think i known what i'm doing wrong
[02:01] <bigjools> the log is a bit crap, it should be showing an error message but there's a bug that hides it
[02:01] <bjf> indeed, i'm just an idiot ... fixed
[02:01] <bigjools> ok :)
[02:01] <bigjools> what was it?
[02:02] <bjf> i normally use the web ui for the CDU and i'd cut/pasted the url into the IP address field for the power param
[02:02] <bjf> not *just* the ip addr
[02:02] <bigjools> ah!
[02:15] <bjf> bigjools, i'm using and existing dhcp server. the celery.log is getting lots of messages about dhcp leases file missing. any way to quiet those?
[02:15] <bigjools> make an empty leases file
[02:19] <bjf> bigjools, there is an empty one at /var/lib/dhcp/dhcpd.leases
[02:19] <bigjools> bjf: that's not the one maas uses
[02:19] <bigjools> /var/lib/maas/dhcp
[04:00] <bigjools> jtv: did you get a chance to look at my other branch?
[04:01] <jtv> Still reviewing Gavin's.
[04:03] <bigjools> ah I was going to look at that too, will take a peek shortly
[04:03] <bigjools> need to get maas-enlist recipe for the daily PPA
[04:04] <bigjools> since there isn't one :(
[06:16] <bradm> bigjools: oh, that ipmi stuff we were talking about a while back, I realised our maas controller isn't on the same network as the ilo and is unable to reach it, so it doesn't even matter what the settings are. :)
[06:16] <bigjools> bradm: !
[06:18] <bradm> bigjools: yeah.
[06:19] <bigjools> bradm: would it be at all scary if we only stored the MAC address of BMCs and ARPed the IP?
[06:20] <bradm> bigjools: we were chatting about the possibility of having a ssh proxy type provider that could run ipmitool for you, I wonder how well that'd go, then you could have a locked down box on the managemetn vlan
[06:21] <bigjools> another option yeah
[06:21] <bigjools> if you want to write the maas driver for that, I will accept the patch :)
[06:22] <bradm> right, we thought you wouldn't say no to that sort of thing :)
[06:22] <bradm> not saying it will happen, just that alexlist and I were chatting
[06:24] <bigjools> it's a great idea
[06:24] <bradm> its more a question of having time to write it
[06:45] <bigjools> it will be easier when we finish the driver api
[09:40] <rvba> gmb: I see, manual import of the daily ephemerals for Trusty.  We use to have a config option for this.
[09:40] <gmb> rvba: Right. Be nice if we could have one again, really. Although we won't care all that much until 16.04...
[09:43] <rvba> gmb: well, it's not really related to LTS vs. non-LTS.  The option would be useful when you want to use the ephemerals of a non-released series (LTS or not).
[09:43] <gmb> rvba: Then we should definitely have a way of doing it. I'll file a bug.
[09:43] <gmb> (If there isn't one already)
[10:27] <rvba> gmb: How can I change the status of the bugs created by maas-test?  I'd like to make successes as fixed bugs right from the start.
[10:28] <allenap> rvba: There may be permissions issues with doing that. Some statuses can only be set by bug supervisors.
[10:28] <rvba> allenap: oh, I see.  I'll change the default set of tags then.
[10:31] <rvba> gmb: btw, didn't we want to include a unique system identifier in the title of the bugs reported by maas-test?
[10:32] <gmb> rvba: We talked about it, and then we went for including the whole lshw output and the original idea got lost.
[10:33] <rvba> Okay.
[10:33] <allenap> rvba: I wouldn’t worry about fixing everything now. We can always post-process them to normalise titles.
[10:36] <rvba> allenap: it's definitely not urgent indeed.
[10:36] <rvba> I was just wondering if this was in the works or not.
[10:36] <rvba> It's a bit painful to have all the bugs filed with the same title.  Not the end of the world though.
[10:43] <rvba> gmb: (back to the Trusty ephemeral problem) There is an easy workaround: enlist and commission using Precise, deploy using Trusty.
[10:43] <gmb> rvba: Aha! Hadn't thought of that.
[10:45] <rvba> gmb: I just tried it and it works all right: http://people.canonical.com/~rvb/config.png
[10:45] <gmb> Sweet
[11:31]  * gmb is remembering why maas-test is such a pain to develop... too much waiting around.
[11:39] <jtv> Has anyone else been unable to start a VM with uvtool under Trusty?  I found this helpful post: http://cartesianproduct.wordpress.com/2011/07/31/kvm-starting-the-default-network/
[11:41] <gmb> jtv: Interesting. I had problems on Friday but strangely enough it's working fine today with absolutely no modifications whatever.
[11:42] <gmb> But possibly I've killed a chicken I didn't know about or something.
[11:42] <jtv> It's been consistently broken for me since Trusty.
[11:42] <jtv> Ah yes.  The ritual slaughter of a chicken is sometimes done accidentally.  The Old Ones are odd that way.
[11:42] <jtv> Poor documenters.    It clearly says “no match” the second time you run it.’
[12:57] <allenap> Anyone have time for a very quick review? https://code.launchpad.net/~allenap/maas/docs-where-art-thou/+merge/205761
[13:01] <rvba> allenap: approved
[13:01] <allenap> rvba: Thanks.
[13:38] <allenap> rvba: LP didn’t register your vote on that docs mp. Could you try again?
[14:04] <rvba> allenap: done.
[14:04] <allenap> rvba: Ta.
[14:05] <allenap> rvba: Do you think this’ll break the build?
[14:06] <rvba> allenap: I don't see why it would.
[14:06] <rvba> allenap: are you thinking about the dependencies' upgrade?
[14:10] <allenap> rvba: Yep.
[14:10] <rvba> allenap: the lander is not in the lab anymore.
[14:10] <rvba> So we don't have the restriction we use to have.
[14:12] <allenap> rvba: Cool :)
[14:22] <rvba> allenap: btw, Julian is going to give you a slap on the hand for that commit message: it doesn't state what the problem was at all :).
[14:28] <rvba> allenap: ready for the ugly bug?
[14:31] <rvba> allenap: https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1278895
[15:19] <allenap> rvba: It implies that it wasn’t working on Trusty :)
[15:20] <rvba> allenap: yeah, but why?
[15:20] <rvba> :)
[15:20] <allenap> rvba: Sorry mother ;)
[15:21] <rvba> heh
[15:21] <allenap> rvba: I’ll have to answer to father later, name of bigjools.
[15:34] <gmb> rvba: So, this is interesting... On Trusty, maas-test is consistently hanging around the "Installing MAAS" point. Or rather the VM is hanging; I can be SSH'd into it and then my connection drops, but the machine doesn't go away and m-t just sits there for hours. I'll try and get some debugging information once I've finished with my test details branch.
[15:34] <gmb> I wonder if it's OOMing.
[15:36] <rbasak> gmb: if you call uvt-kvm with --log-console-output, you should see an OOM message in /var/log/libvirt/qemu/<machine> I think. If you don't use --log-console-output, then you can connect to the live console using "virsh console <name>".
[15:36] <rvba> gmb: when you say "on Trusty" do you mean the machine where maas-test runs or the virtual machine deployed by maas-test?
[15:37] <rvba> The former I suppose… ?
[15:37] <gmb> rvba: Trusty Host + default VM series, also Trusty host + trusty VM.
[15:37] <rvba> k
[15:37] <gmb> rbasak: Thanks for the tip. I'll try that out presently.
[15:42] <gmb> Wait, what?
[15:43]  * gmb might have just found a heisenbug.
[15:48] <tomixxx4> hello guys good news: now its the first time i was able to use the command "maas-cli maas node-groups import-boot-images" :D
[15:48] <tomixxx4> (i have re-installed ubuntu server and so on :P)
[15:49] <tomixxx4> before today, i always had to execute "sudo maas-import-pxe-files"
[15:58] <tomixxx4> after installation: do i have to hit the button "import boot images" in "settings" or is done automatically through commadn above?
[16:02] <tomixxx4> the node's output console says the following: "Unablte to locate configuration file : Boot failed"
[16:12] <tomixxx4> gmb: sorry, are u online? i have the problem that when a node is commissioning and tires to download its image, it prints out "TFTP prefix: Unable to locate configuration file. Boot failed"
[16:12] <tomixxx4> gmb: never had this before
[16:13] <gmb> tomixxx4: Hi, I am online, but I'm right in the middle of something that I can't switch away from. Let me see if there's someone else available to help you debug...
[16:13] <tomixxx4> gmb: kk
[16:15] <allenap> tomixxx4: It doesn’t automatically download pxe files; you do need to ask it to do it.
[16:15] <tomixxx4> allenap: hi, i have executed the command "$ maas-cli maas node-groups import-boot-images" on maas-server
[16:15] <tomixxx4> allenap: and the yellow warning message disappeared, as expected
[16:16] <allenap> tomixxx4: I suspect the error is because the files are not yet downloaded. Have a look in /var/lib/maas/tftp on the region controller (where the webapp runs).
[16:16] <tomixxx4> allenap: kk
[16:17] <allenap> tomixxx4: That disappears when the first thing gets downloaded. Unfortunately there’s no indication yet of when it’s finished.
[16:17] <tomixxx4> allenap: kk, i thought it is ok, if the yellow message disappears
[16:17] <tomixxx4> allenap: i mean, i thought this is signalling that everything is downloaded
[16:18] <tomixxx4> allenap: ty so far!
[16:24] <tomixxx4> allenap: what should iam looking for in the suggested folder above?
[16:33] <allenap> tomixxx4: Check that $arch/$subarch/$purpose/{linux,initrd.gz} exist (and maybe root.tar.gz too).
[16:34] <tomixxx4> allenap: yes, they exist, for example in "armhf/generic/quantal/commissioning"
[16:34] <tomixxx4> allenap: or "amd64/lucid/install&"
[16:35] <allenap> tomixxx4: I assume you mean amd64/generic/lucid/install. Btw, we don’t support installing Lucid with MAAS.
[16:35] <tomixxx4> allenap: yes, sorry
[16:36] <tomixxx4> allnap: also available: precise, quantal, sausy, trusty
[16:37] <tomixxx4> allenap: same for i386
[16:39] <tomixxx4> allenap: i never had this problem when i used the command sudo maas-import-pxe-files in prior installation-trials
[16:39] <allenap> tomixxx4: Can you try booting again?
[16:39] <tomixxx4> allenap: i try all the time. nodes reboot automatically after a time
[16:39] <allenap> tomixxx4: Fwiw, doing it via the UI/API ends up calling maas-import-pxe-files anyway.
[16:39] <tomixxx4> allenap: kk
[16:40] <allenap> (We want to rewrite maas-import-pxe-files, so are discouraging people from using it.)
[16:41] <tomixxx4> allenap: k
[16:41] <tomixxx4> allenap: are u a company behind maas?
[16:44] <allenap> tomixxx4: The core team work for Canonical, but MAAS is open source and we take contributions.
[16:44] <tomixxx4> allenap: kk
[16:45] <tomixxx4> allenap: a question is it important to set "Architecture" in "Edit node" screen to "i386" if i have intel-cpus in my nodes?
[16:45] <allenap> tomixxx4: How are you starting your nodes?
[16:45] <tomixxx4> allenap: well, i push the power button :-) i have no wake-on-lan
[16:47] <tomixxx4> allenap: boot failed again
[16:48] <allenap> tomixxx4: Have you acquired the node from MAAS, e.g. by calling maas-cli maas nodes acquire?
[16:49] <tomixxx4> allenap: no i have enlisted them via boot media, the same usb-boot-stick which i have used for my maas-server
[16:51] <tomixxx4> allenap: however, i do some NAT in order to connect nodes to i-net
[16:51] <allenap> tomixxx4: Have the nodes been through a commissioning cycle.
[16:51] <allenap> ?
[16:52] <tomixxx4> allenap: yes, because 2 nodes + 1 maas server work in a prviate network. the maas-server has a second interface card which connects the server to the outside internet network
[16:52] <tomixxx4> allenap: y, i have commissioned the nodes
[16:52] <tomixxx4> allenap: but now they stuck in "commissioning"
[16:53] <allenap> tomixxx4: Okay, that means they’re not finished; commissioning runs some scripts and tells MAAS the outcome. If successful, the node should be ‘ready’ (iirc).
[16:54] <tomixxx4> allenap: yeah, the nodes will become "ready" after pxe images are downloaded, as far as i remember. it worked when i tried it a week ago
[16:54] <tomixxx4> allenap: but you do not think there is a NAT-problem the cause?
[16:55] <tomixxx4> allenap: and the nodes are aware were to download their things? or do i have maybe to set http-proxy settings in maas dashboard?
[16:55] <allenap> tomixxx4: Is the NAT between the nodes and the MAAS installation?
[16:55] <tomixxx4> no, between the interface of the maas which connects the maas to the nodes and the other interface of the maas, which connects the maas to the internet
[16:58] <tomixxx4> allenap: the script which i have used in order to set up NAT, looks as follow: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6915994
[16:58] <tomixxx4> allenap: i have gotten it from gmb
[16:59] <tomixxx4> allenap: eth0 connects the server to the nodes, eth1 connects the server to i-net
[17:03] <allenap> tomixxx4: I’m really sorry, but I can’t get any deeper into this. Working with NAT and machines that do not have power control is outside of scope for MAAS. It may work, but unfortunately it’s not something I have the time or the expertise to help with.
[17:06] <tomixxx4> allenap: kk, ty
[23:03] <roaksoax> smoser: ping
[23:11] <bjf> bigjools, after reboot tftp was only listening to localhost. if i simply restarted maas-pserv it would start listening on the correct addr.  i found i needed to add IFACE=eth0 to the upstart job to correct this issue.