[03:22] <thumper> axw: ping
[03:22] <axw> thumper: ahoy
[03:22] <thumper> axw: how are you going for work?
[03:22] <thumper> axw: I'm wondering about flicking you a piece of work
[03:22] <axw> I'm working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1167441 atm
[03:22] <_mup_> Bug #1167441: environs/providers must report instance state, like py-juju <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167441>
[03:23] <axw> this shouldn't take too long I think
[03:23] <axw> (or I can switch tracks if it's important)
[03:27] <axw> thumper: ?
[03:27] <thumper> otp
[03:27] <axw> ok
[03:29] <thumper> kk back
[03:30] <thumper> this isn't urgent, but it is important
[03:30] <thumper> so you don't have to switch
[03:30] <thumper> it is really just doing some checks prior to bootstrap for the local provider
[03:30] <thumper> with nice error messages
[03:30] <thumper> something like:
[03:31] <thumper> if ubuntu: check to make sure lxc and mongod installed
[03:31] <thumper> if not, give instructions: apt-get install blah blah
[03:31] <thumper> if linux:
[03:31] <thumper> check and give generic instructions: ie, plz install mongod and lxc
[03:31] <thumper> otherwise:
[03:31] <thumper> sorry, local provider not supported on your platform
[03:32]  * thumper looks to see if there is a bug already for it
[03:35] <thumper> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1204094
[03:35] <_mup_> Bug #1204094: juju-core should suggest mongodb-server <papercut> <juju-core:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204094>
[03:36] <thumper> that's about as close as it gets
[03:36] <thumper> but slightly different
[03:36] <thumper> although I think the rationale for that bug is that we don't give good error messages if we fail
[03:37] <thumper> actually, right now, if you don't have it installed, the boostrap "works"
[03:37]  * thumper thinks
[03:37] <thumper> no it does
[03:37] <thumper> n't
[03:37] <thumper> it fails while waiting for the service to start
[03:37] <thumper> but most likely, not a good error message
[03:39] <axw> oops sorry I wasn't looking - reading back
[03:40] <axw> ok
[03:40] <axw> I'll get this one under wraps, then start on that
[04:24] <thumper> axw: awesome, thanks
[04:48] <wallyworld_> axw: here's another bug about local provider error messages. bug 1206959
[04:48] <_mup_> Bug #1206959: error from no installed lxc is obscure <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206959>
[04:49] <axw> wallyworld_: thanks
[04:49] <wallyworld_> axw: thanks for looking at it. i saw in the back scroll you were doing some work in this area. i'll assign the bug to you
[04:50] <axw> nps
[06:10] <axw> wallyworld_: any idea why lbox would say this?
[06:10] <axw> bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~axwalk/launchpad.net/goamz/": : Project 'launchpad.net' does not exist.
[06:12] <axw> eh I think because I used go get originally
[06:13] <axw> so I got the wrong push branch
[06:17] <bigjools> bzr pull --remember lp:goamz
[06:17] <bigjools> will fix it
[06:17] <axw> bigjools: thanks, that's what I was looking for
[06:17] <bigjools> np
[06:26] <axw> --remember doesn't remember :(
[07:14] <wallyworld_> axw: sorry, i was picking up my car from the repair shop, so missed your message
[07:14] <axw> wallyworld_: nps, I've got it sorted now
[07:15] <axw> I forgot I'd modified ~/.bazaar/locations.conf
[07:15] <axw> so the push location as getting overridden
[07:22] <axw> wallyworld_: I've got a trivial change on goamz, would you mind reviewing?  https://codereview.appspot.com/12324043/
[07:22] <wallyworld_> sure
[07:22] <axw> needed for a test in juju-core
[07:24] <wallyworld_> axw: just land it, since it's trivial, no need for a 2nd +1
[07:24] <axw> cheers
[07:24] <wallyworld_> np
[07:25] <axw> wallyworld_: what's the merge process for goamz?
[07:25] <TheMue> morning
[07:25] <axw> bzr merge?
[07:25] <axw> TheMue: morning
[07:26] <wallyworld_> axw: you push to trunk
[07:26] <axw> ok
[07:26] <wallyworld_> you may not have permission if you are not in the group that owns it
[07:26] <wallyworld_> i can do it for you if you are unable
[07:27] <wallyworld_> just make sure you run all the tests
[07:30] <axw> wallyworld_: tests all pass. I'm not a member of ~goamz, so I don't think I'm going to be able to push
[07:31] <wallyworld_> axw: i'll land it
[07:31] <axw> ta
[07:36] <jtv2> Hi folks — any reviewers available for this one?  https://codereview.appspot.com/12270043
[07:37] <wallyworld_> axw: done
[07:37] <axw> thanks!
[07:38] <jtv> TheMue: Morgen!  Hast Du vielleicht etwas Zeit dafür?  ^
[07:43] <TheMue> jtv: Oh, in German. Nice. Currently triaging a bug but almost done with it. Then I'll take a look.
[07:44] <jtv> Thanks.  Somebody I know spoke German with me recently, and now I feel the urge to practice again.  A decade without practice made me really bad at it.
[07:44] <jtv> It was probably my 3-rd best language at school, but now...
[07:54] <axw> jtv: I did 6 years of German at school, never practiced it after, and now ich kann nichts .. rememberen ;)
[08:15] <jtv> axw: I can't fault your grammar, only your vocabulary.  :-)
[08:15] <axw> ;)
[08:15] <jtv> I think it's "und jetzt kann ich mich nichts mehr erinnern"
[08:16] <jtv> "remember" is transitive.
[08:18] <rogpeppe> mornin' all
[08:18] <axw> morning
[08:18] <rogpeppe> axw: hiys
[08:18] <rogpeppe> hiya even :-)
[08:21] <jtv> Hi rogpeppe
[08:21] <jtv> I mean, hiys!
[08:21] <rogpeppe> jtv: hiys :-)
[08:23] <TheMue> *phew* found it, feeling has been right that this bug is already fixed and committed
[08:24] <TheMue> jtv: Nun kann ich deinen Code begutachten. (Now I can review your code.) ;)
[08:24] <jtv> Hurrah!
[08:24] <jtv> Ob das wirklich "begutachten" heisst wirden wir mal sehen...   :-)
[08:25]  * jtv remembers alternative words such as ablenken, and scheitern.
[08:30] <jtv> "werden."  :(
[08:49] <axw_> net's a little wonky, might be in and out
[08:56] <TheMue> jtv: review is "begutachten", but it is a not very common term. "prüfen" may be better, but does not have the same official character has "begutachten".
[08:57] <TheMue> jtv: and your code is reviewed. ;)
[08:57]  * TheMue just got a parcel with 4 books for review. in this case it is called "Rezension".
[09:10] <jtv> Thanks TheMue — but "begutachten" is etymologically derived from "consider good," right?
[09:21] <TheMue> jtv: even if it contains the stem "gut" it is more the verb for the noun "Gutachten". you can also say "ein Gutachten erstellen". and that surely can end in a bad result
[09:23] <jtv> Ah!
[09:23] <jtv> Thanks for explaining :)
[09:34] <frankban> could anyone please review https://codereview.appspot.com/12178043 ? I just need the second review, thanks!
[09:35] <dimitern> frankban: i'll take a look
[09:35] <frankban> thanks dimitern
[09:37] <dimitern> frankban: done
[09:39] <dimitern> fwereade: ping
[09:39] <frankban> dimitern: thank you! re your suggestion, I don't want the test to fail if len(units) != 1, I just want the loop to continue
[09:39] <dimitern> frankban: ah, I see, ok then - ignore that :)
[09:39] <frankban> cool
[09:40] <fwereade> dimitern, heyhey
[09:40] <dimitern> fwereade: hey, I'm decided to start working on the uniter API
[09:40] <dimitern> fwereade: do we need to discuss it first, how do you think?
[09:40] <fwereade> dimitern, probably not a bad idea
[09:41] <fwereade> dimitern, quick g+?
[09:41] <dimitern> fwereade: sure
[09:41] <dimitern> fwereade: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f497381ca4d154890227b3b35a85a985b894b471
[10:02] <rogpeppe> fwereade: any chance of another look at https://codereview.appspot.com/12175043/ ? i'm currently blocked on your "not lgtm"
[10:05] <rogpeppe> fwereade: also, you might want to have a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/12183043/
[10:10] <axw> fwereade: when you're not inundated, please see my reply to your latest question on the debug-hooks change. If you're okay with that, I'll land it on Monday
[10:10] <axw> night all, have a nice weekend
[10:59]  * TheMue => lunch
[11:04] <dimitern> fwereade: so removing the settings from UnitSettings seems a lot bigger than I originally though, and I'll leave it as is, as you suggested if it happens to be more difficult that expected
[11:04] <fwereade> dimitern, bah, annoying, but fair enough
[11:05] <fwereade> dimitern, is the complexity mostly on the watcher side or the client side?
[11:08] <dimitern> fwereade: well a lot of hookqueue tests have to be changes and with each change I'm getting less certain i'm doing it right
[11:08] <dimitern> fwereade: I can make them pass if I spend a few hours more perhaps
[11:08] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah, I can understand that
[11:09] <fwereade> dimitern, in that case just make it clear that UnitSettings.Settings is never guaranteed
[11:09] <fwereade> dimitern, and we can then kill it with impunity at some point in the future
[11:10] <dimitern> fwereade: ok, will do
[11:22] <dimitern> rogpeppe, fwereade: https://codereview.appspot.com/12344043/
[11:24] <natefinch> dimitern: what's the proper way to contact IS about my reitveld sign-in problem?
[11:24] <dimitern> natefinch: #is on the canonical irc server
[11:24] <natefinch> dimitern: thanks
[11:25] <dimitern> natefinch: there's also a request tracker somewhere, which I have never used
[11:26]  * fwereade gtg out I'm afraid, I'll do some more reviews after lunch
[11:28] <natefinch> dimitern: is there a way to manually perform the steps that lbox does? Maybe that would give me a better idea of what's wrong
[11:28] <rogpeppe> natefinch: what's your sign-in problem?
[11:28] <rogpeppe> dimitern: reviewed
[11:28] <dimitern> natefinch: I don't really know, but probably if you trace that the code's doing..
[11:28] <dimitern> rogpeppe: cheers
[11:30] <natefinch> rogpeppe: when I try to sign into rietveld using lbox, it tells me bad username or password... I'm using my ubuntu one credentials, which definitely work on login.ubuntu.com
[11:31] <natefinch> (and I can sign into reitveld in chrome w/ SSO no problem)
[11:35] <TheMue> dimitern: standup
[12:26] <rogpeppe> mgz: hg log -l 1 --template '{node}\n' -r .
[12:26] <rogpeppe> mgz: is the preferred solution i think
[12:28] <dimitern> rogpeppe: https://codereview.appspot.com/12344043/ - is that better?
[12:29] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I noticed a typo: s/remove/remote/
[12:30] <mgz> >_<
[12:36] <rogpeppe> dimitern: made another suggestion based on your version
[12:37] <dimitern> rogpeppe: thanks
[12:42] <rogpeppe> trivial CL anyone? https://codereview.appspot.com/12349043
[12:43] <dimitern> rogpeppe: looking
[12:45] <dimitern> rogpeppe: lgtm
[12:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: trivial?
[12:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe: i think so yeah
[12:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe: method expressions?
[12:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: next in line
[12:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok
[12:52] <TheMue> rogpeppe: reviewed
[12:52] <rogpeppe> TheMue: thanks
[12:52] <allenap> Hi, does anyone have time for a relatively short review? https://codereview.appspot.com/12176044/
[12:52] <allenap> I have one LGTM already, and this branch is a pre-req for another already approved branch.
[12:53] <dimitern> allenap: looking
[12:54] <allenap> dimitern: Thanks!
[12:54] <dimitern> allenap: i don't see your first LGTM though
[12:55] <allenap> dimitern: Oh, I thought jtv had done that. I guess I need another reviewer then; it's well past jtv's EOD now.
[12:56] <allenap> Anyone else for a shortish review? https://codereview.appspot.com/12176044/
[13:04] <dimitern> allenap: you've got a review
[13:04] <allenap> dimitern: Ta :)
[13:08] <rogpeppe> lunch
[13:12] <allenap> sudo lunch
[13:13] <allenap> mgz: Can I threaten, er, politely request a review? https://codereview.appspot.com/12176044/
[13:13] <mgz> allenap: sure :)
[13:13] <allenap> mgz: Ta muchly.
[13:13] <mgz> ah, and I actually read it already, so joy
[13:14] <dimitern> allenap: oops, my bad - missed the ports arg there
[13:15] <allenap> dimitern: No worries :)
[13:25] <natefinch> Perhaps an odd question: What's the release process like for Juju?  Is it documented somewhere?
[13:27] <dimitern> natefinch: not sure it's actually documented in one place, it's more like scattered around in mailing lists and few google docs
[13:27] <dimitern> natefinch: mgz and davecheney are your best sources on that I think
[13:27] <mgz> yeah,
[13:28] <mgz> I did say I'd gather everything up into a releaseing doc at one point, we're still refining stuff each release
[13:28] <mgz> mostly dave does the work
[13:28] <dimitern> mramm: ping
[13:28] <mramm> dimitern: pong
[13:29] <dimitern> mramm: still no response from hr about my missing tasks in allhands, I wrote to claire o'connell yesterday
[13:29] <mramm> ok
[13:29] <mramm> let's give it a couple of days
[13:29] <natefinch> ok, follow up... who decides what features go into a release?
[13:29] <mramm> and I'll follow up with her next week
[13:30] <dimitern> mramm: ok, just saying i did my part to try and resolve this
[13:30] <mramm> natefinch: dave cheney or everybody depending on how you look at it
[13:30] <mramm> dave picks the point in trunk from which he cuts the release
[13:30] <mramm> but the idea is that everything that goes into trunk should be releasable
[13:31] <natefinch> yep, cool
[13:31] <natefinch> are there dedicated QA people? Or just us?
[13:32] <dimitern> natefinch: wrt charms and stuff there are some automated tests
[13:33] <dimitern> natefinch: but juju-core itself testing is mostly us - go tests and live testing on ec2/canonistack
[13:33] <dimitern> natefinch: and we get feedback from a lot of other canonical (and some external) guys
[13:33] <natefinch> dimitern: that's cool
[13:34] <dimitern> natefinch: you'd probably want to have an ec2 account for testing and setup your canonistack creds for openstack live tests
[13:35] <dimitern> natefinch: ec2 costs can be reimbursed
[13:35] <natefinch> I have an ec2 account, don't have anything set up with canonistack yet
[13:35] <dimitern> natefinch: take a look here https://wiki.canonical.com/InformationInfrastructure/IS/CanonicalOpenstack?action=show&redirect=CanoniStack
[13:39] <natefinch> dimitern: thanks
[13:46] <dimitern> mgz: are you sure the bot's runining the ppa's golang 1.1.1 ?
[13:48] <dimitern> mgz: ah, sorry, ignore that
[13:48] <TheMue> wow, 35°
[13:49] <dimitern> rogpeppe: your branch fails to build in rpc_test and apiserver/client_test
[13:49] <dimitern> TheMue: ah, it's much cooler here today - 28 and cloudy for a change
[13:50] <dimitern> hmm, haven't looked out actually - it's not cloudy at all
[13:52] <TheMue> dimitern: I've got a list of all times and temps of all team members. only John has it warmer. ;)
[13:54] <dimitern> TheMue: ah, well - 40+ there is like every day's average
[13:54] <natefinch> TheMue: we had a bunch of 35-ish days earlier in the summer, but lately it's been more around 26, and today it's actually only about 20 out.
[13:54] <TheMue> dimitern: yeah, very hot there
[13:55] <natefinch> (26 is more like our normal summer temps)
[13:55] <TheMue> natefinch: we have typically 20 to 25 and seldom above, but the whole July has been fascinating and it shall continue next week
[13:57] <dimitern> natefinch: here in july and august it's typically 32-38, some days in august gettin 42-44
[14:00] <natefinch> dimitern: dang
[14:01] <natefinch> Pretty sure if it ever hit 42 here, the entire town would burst into flames
[14:02] <dimitern> natefinch: on the flip side, it never gets much below 10-12 in winter
[14:02] <dimitern> :)
[14:03] <natefinch> dimitern: Ha. -20 isn't that unusual here, and most of the time it's around -10
[14:04]  * natefinch totally doesn't have google open to translate between F and C ;)  stupid american units...
[14:05] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ha, i was totally sure i'd run gotest-c ./...
[14:05] <dimitern> natefinch: oh, in winter I grew up back home with -15 most of the time, -25 often, -35 at rarely, but very memorable :)
[14:05] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ha!
[14:06] <dimitern> natefinch: so i enjoy the hot weather, preferably indoors when it's too hot
[14:06] <TheMue> natefinch: different units are always a pain, also when comparing inch and centimeters or miles and kilometers, not talk about feet
[14:06] <dimitern> rogpeppe: when changing method expressions i might want to skip the apiserver/machiner
[14:07] <dimitern> TheMue: one of the worst I think are volume measures - oz., gallons, etc.
[14:07] <natefinch> TheMue: meters don't bother me, because I can pretty much translate 1:1 with yards, but kilometers are tricky.... and yeah, volume is the worst
[14:07] <rogpeppe> dimitern: why so?
[14:08] <dimitern> rogpeppe: well, to make my life a bit easier while refactoring machiner to use a common setstatuser
[14:08] <dimitern> rogpeppe: or actually, don't worry, i'll deal with the conflicts
[14:09] <TheMue> natefinch, dimitern: yeah, no idea of the volumes
[14:09] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ok, thanks
[14:10] <natefinch> gallons to liters is pretty easy, since a gallon is about 3.75 liters... you can just call it 4 ,and you're pretty close. Smaller volumes is harder.
[14:10] <dimitern> TheMue: my second-most used google feature, after search is "x <unit> in <other-unit>"
[14:10] <natefinch> ....but at least we don't use stones for weight :)
[14:10] <natefinch> dimitern: yep, me too. Love that.
[14:11] <dimitern> natefinch: oh, stones! yeah there's that as well
[14:11] <dimitern> I think there's no plural actually: it's 20 stone :)
[14:11] <TheMue> dimitern: i've got an app for it ;)
[14:12] <natefinch> haha
[14:12] <TheMue> dimitern: it also converts currencies
[14:13] <dimitern> yep, I even wrote one (well, followed the tutorial really) currency converter for my ubuntu phone
[14:13] <natefinch> intersting... I had tests that were failing last night that are passing this morning.... I hate that
[14:14] <dimitern> natefinch: ah, we have a special tag for these "intermittent-failure" - if you happen across them check if they're already reported and file a bug please
[14:15] <natefinch> dimitern: thanks. I'll do that if I come across them... unfortunately I closed the terminal they were in, and I don't remember exactly what they were
[14:16] <dimitern> natefinch: no worries, they're tricky and usually helps to report them if you see them more than once in a while
[14:17] <dimitern> natefinch: some tests are notoriously flaky because of some timeouts, which after lots of tweaking are *mostly* stable
[14:17] <natefinch> dimitern: yeah, been there, done that.  I understand
[14:19] <dimitern> rogpeppe: are you going to introduce state/interfaces.go ?
[14:19] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yeah, i think so
[14:19] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok, i'll have some to add there
[14:21] <dimitern> rogpeppe: btw it'd be really nice if godef follows symlinks and reverts back to the symlink, rather than resolving it finally
[14:22] <dimitern> rogpeppe: i mean, I have ~/work/go/src/launchpad.net/juju-core/ symlinked to ~/work/juju-core/ and every time I do a godef lookup in emacs it resolves it to the full path, rather than the one in ~/work/juju-core/ where I originally clicked
[14:23] <rogpeppe> dimitern: hmm, i'll have to think about that
[14:24] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i'm not entirely sure it's possible
[14:24] <dimitern> rogpeppe: well, perhaps if you detect the input file is symlinked, you can use that prefix when returning the result?
[14:25] <dimitern> rogpeppe: not a big deal really, just saying - I might try to hack something around that in my copious free time :)
[14:26] <dimitern> dang.. so following go conventions i'll end up with a type like SetStatuserer
[14:26] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i'm a bit surprised it works at all if you're passing it a filename like ~/work/juju-core/state/foo.go
[14:27] <rogpeppe> dimitern: StatusSetter
[14:27] <dimitern> rogpeppe: oh, it works like charm
[14:27] <rogpeppe> dimitern: weird, 'cos that's not inside your $GOPATH
[14:27] <dimitern> rogpeppe: probably the link resolution comes before that
[14:28] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yeah, maybe go/build makes a canonical path
[14:29] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I need type StatusSetter in apiserver/common and state interface StatusSetter
[14:29] <rogpeppe> dimitern: seems not unreasonable
[14:29] <dimitern> rogpeppe: cf. common/remove.go - Remover and Removerer
[14:29] <rogpeppe> dimitern: "Removerer" is an abomination
[14:29] <rogpeppe> dimitern: but also quite funny
[14:30] <dimitern> rogpeppe: :) yeah, like double negative
[14:30] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I'll need StatusSetter and StatusSetterer in common
[14:31] <rogpeppe> dimitern: we're going to move away from having a method on state for each interface it can return
[14:31] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and have a single method, Entity, which returns the methods that all entities have in common
[14:32] <rogpeppe> dimitern: then each place that needs a particular interface can type-convert to that interface as required
[14:32] <dimitern> rogpeppe: websters dictionary actually contains setterer
[14:32] <dimitern> rogpeppe: yeah, that'd be nice
[14:35] <rogpeppe> dimitern: "setterer" means "one who cuts the dewlap (of a cow or ox), and inserts a seton, so as to cause an issue."
[14:35] <rogpeppe> dimitern: that is, a person that setters.
[14:35] <rogpeppe> dimitern: because that's the meaning of the verb "to setter"
[14:35] <dimitern> rogpeppe: not sure what either a dewlap or seton are
[14:36] <rogpeppe> dimitern: neither me :-)
[14:36] <dimitern> :)
[14:36] <rogpeppe> dimitern: on a dog, the dewlap is the bit that hangs down over the teeth, istr
[14:36]  * TheMue is a differ, a person that does manual diffing ;)
[14:37] <rogpeppe> dimitern: nope, i'm wrong
[14:37] <rogpeppe> dimitern: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewlap
[14:37] <dimitern> wow :)
[14:37] <jcastro> hey guys, so if I want to get say an m1.large and I put in the matching constraint numbers it gives me the next larger unit.
[14:37] <jcastro> who do I need to convince that we'd like instance-types back?
[14:38] <dimitern> jcastro: no-one, we'll have them
[14:38] <jcastro> oh ok
[14:38] <dimitern> jcastro: it was decided
[14:38] <jcastro> well that was easy!
[14:38] <dimitern> jcastro: and in the roadmap for next 2-3 weeks iirc
[14:39] <jcastro> awesome!
[14:39] <dimitern> jcastro: there was a lot of bikesheding around how to define them across providers/clouds though
[14:40] <dimitern> jcastro: like, if you need fallbacks for the same provider, but different clouds, etc.
[14:40] <jcastro> yeah
[14:40] <jcastro> I would be happy with just ec2 since those are the ones people know
[14:41] <dimitern> jcastro: i'm pretty sure openstack has to go there too
[14:41]  * jcastro nods
[14:44] <dimitern> rogpeppe: for SetStatus I'll need a way to get the entity from it's tag, so I can call SetStatus on it
[14:44] <rogpeppe> dimitern: that's what the State.Entity method will do
[14:45] <dimitern> rogpeppe: is that in yet?
[14:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe: will.. so probably not then
[14:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: no, sorry, i just got distracted by the dubious code in testing.TestLockingFunction
[14:49] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok, I'll work with the assumption it's there already
[14:49] <rogpeppe> dimitern: cool. you can call State.Lifer for the time being
[14:51] <dimitern> rogpeppe: how so? that only gets me Tag() and Life()
[14:52]  * rogpeppe just managed to get the go compiler to go into an apparently infinite loop using up all of memory
[14:52] <rogpeppe> dimitern: Entity will only return a Tagger, probably
[14:52] <rogpeppe> dimitern: you can type convert
[14:53] <dimitern> rogpeppe: so I can do entity, err := state.Lifer(tag) and then if statusSetter, ok := entity.(state.StatusSetter); ok { statusSetter.SetStatus(...) } ?
[14:54] <rogpeppe> dimitern: exactly
[14:54] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok, cool
[15:06] <TheMue> so, both CLs are ready for review: https://codereview.appspot.com/12347043/ and https://codereview.appspot.com/12343045
[15:08] <dimitern> TheMue: will take a look
[15:10] <TheMue> dimitern: thx
[15:12] <dimitern> TheMue: so is it possible to say "remove the setting" if the default is !nil or "" ?
[15:12] <dimitern> TheMue: like juju set <svc> x= ?
[15:13] <dimitern> TheMue: or juju set <svc> --default x= (set the default to empty) ?
[15:15] <dimitern> rogpeppe: it seems you reverted back one of the panics?
[15:15] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i reverted back the panics that were necessary
[15:17] <dimitern> rogpeppe: why not just return some error there?
[15:18] <TheMue> dimitern: remove a string should only be possible if it is configured as default: null and you say set <svc> --default thatOption
[15:18] <rogpeppe> dimitern: which one are you referring to?
[15:18] <rogpeppe> https://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=6016
[15:19] <TheMue> dimitern: but that only with the 2nd cl. the first one doesn't change the behavior of set option=
[15:20] <dimitern> rogpeppe: in rpc_test
[15:20] <dimitern> TheMue: so what will now juju set <svc> option= do?
[15:20] <dimitern> TheMue: can you do as well juju set <svc> --default option= ?
[15:21] <rogpeppe> dimitern: because if we hit that line, something horrible has gone wrong
[15:21] <dimitern> rogpeppe: wow :) you actually found a compiler bug, again? :)
[15:21] <rogpeppe> dimitern: because it really should be unreachable
[15:21] <rogpeppe> dimitern: seems like it
[15:22] <dimitern> rogpeppe: awesome!
[15:22] <dimitern> rogpeppe: seems like we're one of the main sources of go bugs :)
[15:22] <TheMue> dimitern: as said, the 1st cl only adds --default as an alternative to option=, you cannot mix it.
[15:22] <TheMue> dimitern: but you can do set option=
[15:22] <rogpeppe> dimitern: erm, have you seen how many open bugs there are?!
[15:22] <TheMue> dimitern: both set to default
[15:22] <TheMue> dimitern: with the 2nd cl this changes
[15:22] <dimitern> TheMue: I think that's confusing
[15:23] <dimitern> TheMue: and needs more tests to verify all such cases
[15:23] <TheMue> dimitern: then string option will be set to an empty string with option=
[15:23] <dimitern> TheMue: and --default cannot take = after option or a value?
[15:23] <TheMue> dimitern: you have to see both cls combined, only splitted in two cls
[15:23] <dimitern> rogpeppe: haven't checked lately
[15:24] <TheMue> dimitern: which case do you want to be tested?
[15:24] <TheMue> dimitern: are you talking about the 1st cl?
[15:24] <TheMue> dimitern: i already said twice, it cannot. why should it?
[15:24] <dimitern> TheMue: --default option= and --default option=x at least
[15:25] <dimitern> TheMue: because if you're able to do that without --default, people will expect you can do it with, and it should be tested
[15:25] <TheMue> dimitern: it is, as those are detected as illegal options ;)
[15:25] <dimitern> TheMue: I can only see --default invalidoption
[15:26] <dimitern> TheMue: not --default validoption= or --default validoption=blah
[15:26] <TheMue> dimitern: option= is an invalid option too, and option=x also
[15:26] <dimitern> TheMue: ok, let's have 2 more tests for that then
[15:26] <dimitern> TheMue: I'll commet it on the review
[15:26] <TheMue> dimitern: i can add it, it helps you as a developer, but not the user
[15:27] <dimitern> TheMue: it's exactly the other way around I think
[15:28] <dimitern> TheMue: the tests should cover user stories, especially client-facing stuff like the CLI
[15:29] <dimitern> TheMue: so --default is a flag?
[15:29] <dimitern> TheMue: so we need tests that mix --default and other key=value pairs as well
[15:31] <dimitern> TheMue: users might try juju set <svc> key1=val1 --default key2 key3=val3
[15:32] <dimitern> TheMue: that's why I don't think --default should be a flag
[15:32] <TheMue> dimitern: that flag has been the  result of a longer discussion. what would you propose?
[15:33] <dimitern> TheMue: it should apply to the argument immediately following it, then it's obvious (and should be documented) it's an argument
[15:33] <dimitern> TheMue: like --default=x (with or without the =)
[15:34] <TheMue> dimitern: an argument looking like a flag?
[15:34] <dimitern> TheMue: is --config a flag?
[15:34] <dimitern> TheMue: it's not and it has an argument
[15:34] <TheMue> dimitern: btw, also --default a b c d is working
[15:35] <dimitern> TheMue: yeah, there are no tests for that as well
[15:35] <TheMue> how do you handle multiple defauls in one tx?
[15:36] <dimitern> TheMue: sorry? is it working or now?
[15:36] <dimitern> not*
[15:37] <TheMue> dimitern: in the cl set --default opta optb optc sets all three to default
[15:37] <TheMue> dimitern: how should the call look like in your opinion?
[15:38] <dimitern> TheMue: it can look like --default opta --default optb --default optc
[15:38] <TheMue> dimitern: userfriendly?
[15:39] <dimitern> TheMue: at least it's explicit, rather than key1=val1 --default key2 key3=val3 failing
[15:39] <TheMue> dimitern: yeah, that's not optimal
[15:40] <dimitern> TheMue: it has to be documented that --default has to be last
[15:40] <TheMue> dimitern: but the explicit way is not user friendly
[15:40] <dimitern> TheMue: i don't think is unfriendly, but that's another thing
[15:40] <TheMue> dimitern: why has it to be the last?
[15:41] <dimitern> TheMue: because of k=v --default x w=v
[15:43] <TheMue> dimitern: ???
[15:44] <dimitern> TheMue: it has to be last, otherwise the user might assume he can continue passing key=value pairs after --default <something>
[15:45] <dimitern> TheMue: oh, I see, so you assume in the code there's either --default or not and it comes first
[15:46] <dimitern> TheMue: ok, this simplifies things, but has to be documented better - there are 2 ways to invoke juju set: 1) <svc> key=value ... pairs, 2) --default name name...
[15:47] <TheMue> dimitern: yes, the doc is currently not enough
[15:49] <natefinch> is there a keyboard shortcut to tell ubuntu to make a window half the screen size? Like when you drag it up against the side of the screen? It's the one thing I miss from WIndows, and I use it all the time.
[15:51]  * TheMue works with fullscreen on four virtual screens
[15:53] <natefinch> I like being able to see stuff side by side, and with big monitors, making things fullscreen is usually a waste of space
[15:54] <dimitern> TheMue: reviewed the first one
[15:54] <TheMue> dimitern: thx
[15:54] <dimitern> natefinch: there are all sorts of shortcuts - if you install ccsm you can set them yourself
[15:55] <dimitern> apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager
[15:56]  * fwereade observes that a very small insect has somehow managed to get inside his laptop screen
[15:56] <natefinch> google figured it out for me, ctrl-super-<direction arrow>
[15:56] <dimitern> then run ccsm - go to to Window Management - Grid
[15:56]  * fwereade wonders how long it will crawl around in there for
[15:56] <TheMue> fwereade: inside? that's strange
[15:56] <dimitern> fwereade: wow :)
[15:56] <fwereade> TheMue, yeah, indeed
[15:56] <fwereade> TheMue, blasted countryside
[15:56] <fwereade> TheMue, full of life
[15:56] <natefinch> I tried installing ccsm on my last ubuntu VM and was not successful. The default shortcut is fine by me, especially since it is nearly the same as I'm used to on Windows
[15:57] <TheMue> fwereade: thought you were in london?
[15:57] <fwereade> TheMue, suffolk today
[15:59] <sidnei> reviews: https://codereview.appspot.com/12352043
[15:59] <dimitern> TheMue: reviewed the second as well
[16:00] <sidnei> fwereade: mramm told me to bug you about the cloud-init message i sent to the list. i suspect that's already on the schedule for being discussed next week?
[16:00] <dimitern> natefinch: also it's worth mentioning that dragging the window around the edges will also put it left/right or maximize it
[16:01]  * fwereade tries to load state for sidnei, just a mo
[16:01] <natefinch> dimitern: yeah, that's what I've been doing, but if I can avoid using the mouse, it's preferable
[16:01] <mramm> sidnei: it isn't yet, but I'm adding it now
[16:01] <sidnei> thanks mramm
[16:01] <natefinch> dimitern: it's also finicky with multiple monitors, easy to overshoot
[16:01] <TheMue> dimitern: thx
[16:01] <dimitern> natefinch: the defaults for grid window placement is ctrl+alt+keypad #
[16:02] <natefinch> ahh, neat
[16:02] <dimitern> sidnei: can you repropose please, the diff is not there
[16:02] <sidnei> yeah, just noticed. doing it.
[16:03] <dimitern> man.. i have sticky keypad now after yesterday's little beer spill
[16:03] <natefinch> haha
[16:03] <TheMue> i have no keypad
[16:03] <dimitern> it good it's the external kbd, rather than the laptop
[16:04] <sidnei> dimitern: there, fixed
[16:04] <dimitern> sidnei: looking
[16:04] <natefinch> dimitern: I did the same thing last week (soda, not beer)... also external kbd . Luckily no damage after letting it dry out overnight.
[16:04] <dimitern> sidnei: wow, i never heard of install before
[16:05] <dimitern> natefinch: i have to submerge it in water and leave it to dry :)
[16:05] <fwereade> mramm, thanks; sidnei, I think I understand your need but smoser's points are good ones; I'm a bit leery of exposing cloud-init directly to users, even sophisticated ones
[16:06] <natefinch> dimitern: yikes, good luck with that! Hope it's not an expensive keyboard
[16:06] <fwereade> sidnei, what does cloudinit do for you, beyond (say) runcmd and add-package?
[16:06] <dimitern> or probably just dismantle it and clean it up carefully
[16:08] <fwereade> sidnei, because it seems potentially viable for juju to expose those in some way itself, and just happen to implement them with cloudinit
[16:09] <fwereade> sidnei, (sorry, of course, apt-proxy as well)
[16:14] <dimitern> sidnei: reviewed
[16:24] <rogpeppe> dimitern, fwereade, anyone else: https://codereview.appspot.com/12354043/
[16:24] <dimitern> rogpeppe: looking
[16:28] <rogpeppe> mgz: do you think the dependency file should contain dependencies for a) just cmd/juju and cmd/jujud; b) the entire tree or c) the entire tree plus testing deps too ?
[16:28] <dimitern> rogpeppe: lgtm
[16:28] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ta
[16:28] <mgz> rogpeppe: the lot
[16:28] <rogpeppe> mgz: okey dokey
[16:29] <dimitern> oh, yeah, the lot +1
[16:45] <natefinch> getting an error building trunk after my last pull:
[16:45] <natefinch> # launchpad.net/juju-core/environs/azure
[16:45] <natefinch> ../juju-core/environs/azure/storage.go:149: context.GetContainerProperties undefined (type *gwacl.StorageContext has no field or method GetContainerProperties)
[16:45] <rogpeppe> i just saw a failure in MachineSuite.TestWatchMachine
[16:45] <rogpeppe> though i can't reproduce it reliably
[16:45] <mgz> natefinch: see gwacl, pull that
[16:45] <sidnei> fwereade: there's a lot of stuff in cloud-init. things like apt_mirror_discover_from_dns or whatever it's spelled are interesting. it looks up an ubuntu-mirror.%(domain)s hostname and uses that as the default mirror for example. it might be more interesting to people which are heavy cloud-init users indeed.
[16:45] <rogpeppe> machine_test.go:594:
[16:45] <rogpeppe>     testing.NewNotifyWatcherC(c, s.State, w).AssertOneChange()
[16:46] <rogpeppe> testing/watcher.go:85:
[16:46] <rogpeppe>     c.Fatalf("watcher sent unexpected change: (_, %v)", ok)
[16:46] <rogpeppe> ... Error: watcher sent unexpected change: (_, true)
[16:46] <rogpeppe> anyone seen that before?
[16:46] <mgz> yeah, not sure I have any other context for you though
[16:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe: it's intermittent
[16:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: you've seen it too?
[16:46] <mgz> just remember complaining to william that the assert didn't show anything useful
[16:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe: i've seen it like 3-4 times out of 50 runs
[16:46] <fwereade> sidnei, yeah, the trouble is that if we expose it we end up relegating anything we don't provision with cloud-init to a second class citizen
[16:47] <sidnei> fwereade: that's also smoser's concern yes.
[16:48] <sidnei> fwereade: for now i'd settle on simply fixing https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1203816 the simplest way, and then we can discuss further.
[16:48] <_mup_> Bug #1203816: local provider should support use of local proxy <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203816>
[16:48] <fwereade> sidnei, yep, that sounds good to me
[16:49] <fwereade> sidnei, triaged high
[16:50] <fwereade> sidnei, and next week is bug week
[16:50] <fwereade> sidnei, so hopefully the immediate issue will be handled while we try to figure out the bigger ones
[16:51] <sidnei> fwereade: if i didn't make it clear, im working on a branch already. and i'll be at the sprint next week.
[16:51] <natefinch> mgz: thanks, that fixed me up
[16:51] <fwereade> sidnei, ah, I didn't spot that -- many thanks then
[16:54] <sidnei> dimitern: trying to make a const as you suggested in the review, but im failing to make it better to read. help?
[16:54] <sidnei> dimitern: or something like this is ok? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5940759/
[16:55] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i think i see how it can happen
[16:56] <rogpeppe> dimitern: but i'm not yet sure how to fix the test so it's reliable
[16:57] <dimitern> sidnei: my suggestion was (perhaps failed to mention) to use ` quotes
[16:57] <dimitern> sidnei: that way you don't need to concat the lines
[16:58] <sidnei> dimitern: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5940764/ ?
[16:59] <dimitern> sidnei: something like this http://paste.ubuntu.com/5940765/
[16:59] <dimitern> sidnei: yeah :)
[16:59] <sidnei> dimitern: your version adds an extra \n at the beginning. is it possible to avoid that with `\ like in python?
[17:00] <dimitern> rogpeppe: well, it happes rarely
[17:00] <dimitern> sidnei: no, for version seems better actually, if it works for you use it - it reads better already
[17:00] <sidnei> oki
[17:00] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it's important that tests are reliable
[17:01] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and that we know why they're failing
[17:01] <dimitern> rogpeppe: i agree completely
[17:01] <dimitern> rogpeppe: but i failed to see a reason why that particular one could fail
[17:02] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it depends on the state/watcher implementation, and whether that will send an event or not
[17:02] <dimitern> rogpeppe: can you make it fail more often than not?
[17:03] <dimitern> rogpeppe: not can you make it, but does it do that with you
[17:03] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i thought i'd be able to, but i haven't succeeded yet, which might mean my theory is bollocks
[17:05] <rogpeppe> dimitern: right, i can now make it fail reliably
[17:07] <natefinch> I'm getting some weird build failures trying to run go test in my new branch...
[17:07] <natefinch> cmd/environmentcommand_test.go:44: undefined: cmd.GetDefaultEnvironment
[17:07] <dimitern> rogpeppe: what was needed?
[17:07] <dimitern> natefinch: did you pull trunk recently?
[17:07] <natefinch> ...except that cmd.GetDefaultEnvironment is properly defined in a _test.go file
[17:07] <natefinch> yeah
[17:07] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i changed AssertOneChange to this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5940791/
[17:08] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and called that function at the end of TestWatchMachine
[17:08] <dimitern> rogpeppe: well, commenting out the sync stuff will surely cause any time-sensitive watcher test to fail
[17:08] <rogpeppe> dimitern: in theory, making those changes should not affect the behaviour of the test
[17:08] <natefinch> dimitern: yeah, just pulled. Do I need to clean something out?
[17:08] <rogpeppe> dimitern: not really
[17:09] <rogpeppe> dimitern: the poll interval of state/watcher is 5s, considerably shorter than testing.LongTimeout
[17:09] <dimitern> natefinch: can you paste the log you're getting with the errors?
[17:09] <dimitern> rogpeppe: but the sync stuff is needed to get the changes after triggering them one the line just before the assert, right?
[17:10] <natefinch> dimitern: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5940792/   (plus a lot more)
[17:10] <rogpeppe> dimitern: only if you don't want to wait for the state/watcher to get around to polling
[17:10] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it's a short cut, not essential
[17:11] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I had to add it to a lot of tests to cause them to pass at all
[17:11] <dimitern> natefinch: pulling trunk and trying now myself
[17:12] <rogpeppe> dimitern: that's because the timeout was probably less than 5s
[17:13] <dimitern> rogpeppe: most of the time it's a lot less
[17:14] <dimitern> natefinch: so the cmd.GetDefaultEnvironment should be in cmd/export_test.go - can you see it there?
[17:14] <rogpeppe> dimitern: these days, the worst case timeout should always be testing.LongWait (10s)
[17:14] <natefinch> dimitern:  yep. it's there
[17:15] <natefinch> dimitern:  the code looks correct, but go test seems to disagree
[17:15] <dimitern> natefinch: try cd cmd/ && go test -gocheck.vv
[17:15] <natefinch> dimitern: same log output, same failures
[17:16] <dimitern> natefinch: it seems like there shouldn't be any failures, because it fails to build the tests
[17:16] <natefinch> sorry... I meant same failure to build
[17:16] <dimitern> natefinch: ok, but hmmm..
[17:17] <dimitern> natefinch: try pasting "go env"
[17:18] <natefinch> dimitern: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5940823/
[17:18] <natefinch> dimitern:  go version go1.1.1 linux/amd64
[17:19] <dimitern> natefinch: I think your gopath is wrong
[17:19] <dimitern> natefinch: it should be just one path, not a list of paths
[17:20] <rogpeppe> dimitern: here's a sketch of what i think is going on: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5940824/
[17:21] <dimitern> rogpeppe: did you try the race detector?
[17:21] <rogpeppe> dimitern: there's no memory race
[17:21] <rogpeppe> dimitern: plus unfortunately we can't use the race detector currently because of the bug i linked to earlier
[17:22] <sidnei> rogpeppe: can i get your blessing on https://codereview.appspot.com/12352043
[17:22] <rogpeppe> sidnei: looking
[17:22] <dimitern> rogpeppe: these 2 simple code paths have some serious and nasty complications
[17:22] <rogpeppe> dimitern: how do you mean?
[17:22] <dimitern> rogpeppe: we need to sync watchers so they don't compete like this
[17:23] <natefinch> dimitern: gopath can be a list of paths... https://code.google.com/p/go-wiki/wiki/GOPATH
[17:23] <dimitern> natefinch: it can be, but it's better that it's not
[17:23] <dimitern> natefinch: it's tricky and flaky, trust me
[17:24] <dimitern> rogpeppe: i mean the entitywatcher should somehow wait for the state watcher to poll first
[17:24] <TheMue> so, will step out into vacation
[17:24] <TheMue> dimitern: review is handled
[17:24] <dimitern> TheMue: have a great holiday!
[17:24] <dimitern> TheMue: thanks
[17:25] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i *think* the problem in this case may be solved simply by calling Sync rather than StartSync
[17:25] <TheMue> will keep an eye on further reviews so that i can push the stuff during some spare time
[17:25] <TheMue> dimitern: thanks
[17:25] <rogpeppe> dimitern: alternatively, it would be great if StartSync didn't allow a window for other events to arrive before actually starting to sync
[17:26] <rogpeppe> dimitern: although fixing that implies restructuring the state/watcher control loop a bit
[17:27] <dimitern> rogpeppe: yeah, a whole new can of worms i suspect
[17:27] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it shouldn't be too bad, in theory
[17:28] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i don't understand this comment, BTW
[17:28] <rogpeppe> // NewLaxNotifyWatcherC returns a NotifyWatcherC that runs a full watcher
[17:28] <rogpeppe> // sync before reading from the watcher's Changes channel, and hence cannot
[17:28] <rogpeppe> // verify real-world coalescence behaviour.
[17:28] <dimitern> rogpeppe: me neither, you should ask jam
[17:28]  * dimitern steps out for 10m
[17:28] <natefinch> dimitern: changed gopath to just the first directory, which is now reflected by go env, but same problem
[17:29] <natefinch> dimitern: take your time, I'll go work on something else, no big deal
[17:32]  * fwereade is off again, back again later
[17:37] <dimitern> natefinch: try and paste go list all
[17:41] <natefinch> dimitern: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5940890/
[17:44] <dimitern> natefinch: I think there's your problem
[17:44] <dimitern> natefinch: you have multiple copies of juju-core in your gopath
[17:45] <dimitern> natefinch: if you try removing all juju-core* dirs except juju-core2 from $GOAPTH/src/launchpad.net/
[17:45] <dimitern> natefinch: or moving them out of the way at least
[17:45] <natefinch> hmm ok
[17:46] <dimitern> natefinch: and also, rename $GOPATH/src/launchpad.net/juju-core2 to juju-core
[17:46] <dimitern> natefinch: import paths and work dir checkouts must match the import paths
[17:47] <dimitern> natefinch: yeah, too many import paths :)
[17:49] <natefinch> dimitern: right, right... silly me.  I don't usually have multiple branches going of the same code in Go... forgot you can't just call them something else
[17:51] <natefinch> that did it
[17:51] <dimitern> natefinch: cool!
[17:52] <natefinch> dimitern: thanks... I'll remember that for next time - gotta rename the branch I'm building to juju-core first
[17:52] <dimitern> natefinch: np :)
[17:59] <dimitern> natefinch: and now, after you fixed you lbox woes and everything is up and running, please don't forget to lbox propose your branch
[18:00] <natefinch> dimitern: yep. Gotta write tests for my change first, which is why I was trying to run the tests in the first place. Probably by EOD though.
[18:00] <dimitern> natefinch: no worries, it's good you have it running smoothly anyway
[18:00] <natefinch> yep
[18:01]  * dimitern reached eod: happy weekend everyone!
[18:01] <natefinch> dimitern: have a good weekend!
[18:02] <dimitern> natefinch: cheers, you too!
[18:07] <rogpeppe> mgz: https://codereview.appspot.com/12361043
[18:39]  * rogpeppe has reached eod too
[18:39] <rogpeppe> g'night and happy weekends all
[18:44] <natefinch> rogpeppe: g'night!
[18:45] <sidnei> bummer, no review from rog. natefinch: are you into doing reviews yet?
[18:46] <natefinch> sidnei: I don't think I'm qualified to do reviews yet. I can certainly review the quality of the code, but as for how it interacts with the rest of the system... I'm going to miss anything that's more than a little subtle
[18:47] <natefinch> sidnei: in other words, I can review, but it won't count for much :)
[18:47] <sidnei> natefinch: tis fine, a mostly trivial branch. https://codereview.appspot.com/12352043/
[19:10] <natefinch> sidnei: done.  lgtm.
[19:13] <natefinch> sidnei: if it were me, I'd rename addscripts to AddRunCmds or something similar, but that's really more of a complaint against the original code, not your changes
[19:13] <sidnei> natefinch: i think it's a good suggestion, i'll make the change.
[19:13] <natefinch> sidnei: cool.


[12:14] <nixternal> actually..it was fixed..and then they changed the theme up again
[12:14] <nixternal> my fault on that one..sorry
[02:14] <uni`nix> heya jono, enjoy the radio interview..im at the uni so i won't be able to catch it live
[02:14] <jono> uni`nix, thanks! no worries :)
[03:20] <LaserJock> jono: hi!
[03:21] <LaserJock> little belated ;-)
[03:23] <uni`nix> 1.5 hours to go!
[05:01] <theCore> hello, LaserJock
[05:06] <LaserJock> hi theCore
[05:06] <theCore> how are you?
[05:07] <LaserJock> pretty good
[05:09] <theCore> any updates planned for the Packaging Guide?
[06:30] <nixternal> jjesse: if there is anything you want added to the kubuntu meeting, go ahead, or anything you can think of..i will be back at about 16:00 CST, 17:00 your time
[07:53] <Riddell> Burgwork, mdke_: could you add me to ubuntu-doc on launchpad
[07:54] <jjesse> grin :)
[07:55] <Burgwork> Riddell, given you have commit rights, yes
[07:55] <jjesse> why did that sound like yoda talk to me?
[07:56] <Burgwork> because you use KDE?
[07:56] <jjesse> lol
[07:56] <jjesse> i'm sick of seeing all those big gnome footprints on planet :)
[08:00] <jjesse> nixternal: updated release notes please verify them when the patch is applied
[08:02] <Riddell> planet does smell of big feet quite a bit today
[08:02] <Riddell> :)
[08:31] <Riddell> Burgwork: going to add me then? (username jr)
[08:32] <LaserJock> hehe, Riddell just wants to collect some more emblems ;-)
[08:42] <Riddell> actually I want to import docs svn into bzr and see what happens
[08:45] <LaserJock> Riddell: yeah, I tried that
[08:45] <LaserJock> Riddell: I'm not very great with bzr
[08:46] <LaserJock> Riddell: I can use it ok, but I had a hard time because of the large number of commits
[08:50] <jjesse> stupid %#%#%@$ computer
[09:36] <Burgwork> Riddell, will do
[10:00] <philbull> Hey guys
[10:01] <jjesse> hiya philbull
[10:01] <philbull> hey jjesse
[10:01] <philbull> we have 7 days to finish the SFW guide
[10:02] <jjesse> i don't know if its going to get done by feature freeze for edyg
[10:02] <philbull> i have a massive patch for /ubuntu
[10:02] <jjesse> awesome :)
[10:02] <philbull> isnt feature freeze today?
[10:03] <jjesse> ment doc freeze
[10:03] <philbull> ah, ok
[10:04] <philbull> i've done most of applications, dual-boot, installing and preparing
[10:04] <jjesse> wow put me to shame sorry bout that
[10:04] <philbull> that leaves intro, whyswitch, migrating and authentication
[10:04] <philbull> no worries, most of this happened within the last 24hrs
[10:05] <philbull> it needs some serious reviewing, so ill send a patch to u-doc list tonight, when ive finished working on migrating.xml
[10:05] <jjesse> awesome i look forwared to reviewing it
[10:06] <philbull> its in a vaguely usable state, no eye-candy though
[10:06] <philbull> i think i can get it finished by the 14th
[10:07] <philbull> ive imported a small amount of info from the wiki and cleaned it up
[10:08] <jjesse> that's great news
[10:08] <philbull> this will be the theme for tonight's session i think...


[15:07] <untitled1> Hello there I have a Read-Only File system on my Touch and would like to make it so I do not.  I tried s to remount as readable and writable but it will not work.  Any tips ?
[15:08] <untitled1> or a good channel top ask this question ?
[22:58] <iamsvkris> hey!, i am a newbie in ubuntu app development. I am going through the tutorials in developer.ubuntu.com. The thing is when i created a sample ubuntu-htmui project, no .qml file is being created as explained in the tutorial. Not even app.js file is being created. my qt creater version is 2.8.1 and it is based on qt 5.0.2
[22:59] <iamsvkris> Somebody please help me!
[23:02] <iamsvkris> this screenshot shows my project structure
[23:02] <iamsvkris> http://imgur.com/oxeBzQ6


 @julienlavergne tested kvantum. I LOVE IT!!
 (Photo, 800x600) http://i.imgur.com/S4uBcxf.jpg
 but pcmanfm-qt doesn't use Qt themes, I don't know why
[17:11] <wxl> that icon is barf
 that one also matches Lubuntu perfectly!
 which one, wxl?
[17:12] <wxl> the kvantum one
[17:12] <wxl> for a theme manager you think they could do a LITTLE better :)
 yes, if we use it, I'll change it
 it looks... ancient
[17:12] <wxl> yeah
 HELLO WALTER!!!!!!!!
[17:12] <wxl> WULFIE!!!!!!!!!!!!
 :* :* :* :* :* :*
 also, look at the panel. the battery's green circle is killing me. also the qlipper one.
[17:13] <wxl> so our mastodon instance is working on a indiegogo campaign to fund a silkscreening kit for our artist @Famine. i told him to have a go at a Lenny shirt. might be a nice thing for the future and of course Canonical will pay him which they'll ilke :)
[17:14] <wxl> yeah klipper has always been an issue
 he can get Lenny's PDF anytime :)
[17:14] <wxl> oh i think i'll make his own take on it
[17:14] <wxl> which will be interesting :)
 yup
[17:14] <wxl> that battery icon tho
[17:14] <wxl> i kind of like it
[17:15] <wxl> i don't like it aesthetically but i like the idea graphically
[17:15] <wxl> i assume the black changes when it's plugged in or not
 it's supposed to mimic the CyanogenMod battery circle. but the colours are awful!
[17:15] <wxl> yeah a little too harsh
[17:15] <wxl> also no reason to have that empty circle
 what empty circle?
[17:17] <wxl> in between the black and green
 ah yer, weird design. a simple circle should be enough.
 "horror vacui", I guess
[17:17] <wxl> well like i said if the black changes, that's a good idea
 like "omg, an empty space! I should place a dot there! because of reasons!"
[17:18] <wxl> does it change based on whether or not it's plugged in?
 yes
[17:18] <wxl> see, that's a nice idea
 (Photo, 800x600) http://i.imgur.com/f5Bk5WJ.jpg unplugged
 I don't like it
 and as always, I imagine it's hard coded
[17:25] <wxl> but of course XD
 ._____.
 there. some people always making things easy.
 @VikingRedwolf you theme that yourself?
 Or did it show up by default?
 Because the latest Qt will land in less than a week
 And we have the newest Qupzilla thanks to mitya57
 no, that's the thing. it's a new theme named "Kvantum" with some example presets. The one called "kvGnome" matches Lubuntu's colours PERFECTLY!
 I don't even have to make an SVG theme from scratch
 the problem is to make that ALL apps use this engine. pcmanfm-qt doesn't.
 Kvantum has been around for ages
 not this package :)
 @VikingRedwolf, File a bug upstream
 you do it. tell the pcmanfm that latest build only uses Breeze
 @VikingRedwolf, Nope. YOU do it. .__.
 I'm on Go-Karts soon
 I'm too busy watching Star Trek Voyager
 (Photo, 1280x720) http://i.imgur.com/3VDLNYZ.jpg
[17:46] <wxl> is that drug code?
 @VikingRedwolf, Lazy! .__.
[17:46] <wxl> all hopped up on go-karts?
 @wxl, HAH no look at the pic XD
 O.o
[17:46] <wxl> it's not a webp so i will not
 .____.
 so you don't look to any picture that isn't webp anymore?
 LOL at those go-carts
[17:47] <wxl> no, it's sarcasm
 oh
[17:47] <wxl> i will NOT look at webps, which tsimonq2 insists on using
[17:47] <wxl> also his dumb file server is blocked on our firewall
 there's a snap for that
[17:47] <wxl> i'm actually thiking about boycotting all of his media until he gets mediagoblin set up
 wxl, simon is considered spam in Lubuntu mailing lists!
[17:48] <wxl> hahahah
[17:48] <wxl> not surprised
 yer
 machines know things
 @VikingRedwolf, Really?  I tried
[17:53] <wxl> works fine on mine
 also, there's no plugin for Ubuntu's build to handle direct dav access
 so you need to rely on the sync client
[17:54] <wxl> sooooo ?
 ugly solution
[17:54] <wxl> bah
 AND keepass doesn't support TOTP
 and that's very very bad
[17:55] <wxl> you want 2FA for your password manager? i guess it makes sense
 temporary codes. keepass doesn't have them
 nor FidoKey / Yubikey support
[17:55] <wxl> i have freeotp for that
 too many apps
 also, I use TOTP in my laptop too. how do you sync freeotp?
[17:56] <wxl> so what i'm hearing you say is that you hate freedom
 because you can't create two TOTPs
 no.  Odin commands you.
 Omg
 O.o
 But yeah, in Go-Karts I think if I didn't get out of there I would have been kicked out.   But now you can erase the social part.
 Dunno how.
 is FB down in the UK?


[18:23] <Miriup> nlsthzn: Re Arabic: Been hanging out in #arabeyes for a while.
[18:23] <Miriup> Asked the guys, where is an Arabic tech channel.
[18:24] <Miriup> ... so I could listen and learn Arabic.
[18:24] <Miriup> There is none!
[18:24] <nlsthzn> Ouch...
[18:24] <Miriup> Even in #arabeyes they speak English.
[18:24] <nlsthzn> I guess then the LoCo has got to pull up its socks and get people in here helping :)
[18:24] <Miriup> But I eventually found a forum. But since then I haven't had the time yet to get my head into it.
[18:25] <Miriup> Yeah, but it seems it won't happen in Arabic, though.
[18:25] <Miriup> I had once an interesting discussion with a Arab life guard at Mushrif park swimming pool.
[18:25] <Miriup> I asked him some stuff in Arabic and in the beginning he didn't understand me.
[18:26] <Miriup> When he realised I'm talking Arabic he told me he was so unprepared for that, that he just didn't recognise what I said.
[18:26] <nlsthzn> :)
[18:26] <Miriup> He said even the locals would speak English, because for them it meant they will project themselves as educated people.
[18:26] <Miriup> It's kind of sad.
[18:26] <Miriup> Because it's really a beautiful language.
[18:27] <Miriup> So grammatic, that I think if you want to teach a computer understanding language it'd be much easier to do it with Arabic than with Englihs.
[18:27] <Miriup> It's a content programming language.
[18:27] <Miriup> ;)
[18:27] <nlsthzn> Not sure about that... beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;)
[18:28] <Miriup> Do you speak it?
[18:28] <nlsthzn> Nope
[18:28] <Miriup> I do you at least understand it?
[18:28] <nlsthzn> Nope
[18:28] <Miriup> Where are you from? Which languages do you speak?
[18:28] <nlsthzn> I already speak 2 languages... that is enough for me (English and Afrikaans)
[18:29] <Miriup> Oh. :) Cool.
[18:30] <Miriup> Well, both of them are indo-germanic. Even if you were speaking Urdu or Hindi, which are indo-european (parent family of indo-germanic), you'd be pretty much speaking the same language with different words.
[18:30] <nlsthzn> Lots of people have a thing for languages... I guess I am not one of them :p
[18:30] <Miriup> But not so with Arabic. It's completely different. You have very few basic meanings and then you have grammar to derive detail from it.
[18:31] <Miriup> So when you have the word for writing for example, you can built writer, the written (book), correspondancfe, etc, using very grammitcal rules.
[18:32] <nlsthzn> :)
[18:32] <Miriup> So with a handful of word-stems you can express a density of information in a single word that you need whole sentences or paragraphs in English.
[18:33] <Miriup> And you can easily create a word for a new idea, but deriving meaning from another word you already know.
[18:33] <Miriup> It's really cool. I wished I had the time to properly learn it.
[18:33] <nlsthzn> ... and in the end the same thing is achieved... communication...
[18:33] <Miriup> Anyhow... ;)
[18:34] <nlsthzn> It is good to have a passion... something that makes us excited... I hope you get more time to explore it further :)
[18:35] <Miriup> Well, with the communication. It's like Linux and Windows. Yes, you can click your way around. But eventually if you want to express something with a deeper meaning, there's not much the console would provide you.
[18:35] <Miriup> Not so on Linux.
[18:35] <Miriup> You might argue both are just operating systems.
[18:36] <Miriup> But one quite limits you in your communication with the machine and the other doesn't.
[18:36] <nlsthzn> This sounds a bit like apples and oranges to be honest...
[18:36] <Miriup> Comparing two operating systems?
[18:38] <nlsthzn> comparing arabic the language vs english to windows vs linux ;)
[18:39] <Miriup> No, but I felt your "... and in the end the same thing is achieved... communication..." is like apples and oranges to me.
[18:39] <Miriup> ;)
[18:40] <Miriup> So I tried to nail it down to a comparision that limits communication in the same way and would be on-topic on this channel. ;)
[18:45] <Miriup> Probably better talked about in person. Need to bring my daugher to bed. Was nice speaking to you. :) CU
[18:45] <nlsthzn> Well, I will take your word for it ... I am happy to click around in english :) I will use the terminal in Linux however
[18:45] <nlsthzn> Miriup: cheers


[00:06] <Mish> Hey Len are you there?
[04:30] <cfhowlett> Len-nb: FYI, I queried Full Circle Magazine for a list of recommended publishing application.  Will share their response.
[04:45] <Len-nb> great. I'll see what we can do with it
[14:24]  * al4nc4ds http://www.wifislax.com/
[16:05] <Submarine> howdie
[16:06] <Submarine> I use Rosegarden for sequencing, Ardour for recording, Hydrogen for drums, FluidSynth and LinuxSampler for sampler sounds. Is there a great app that I have missed?
[16:07] <holstein> qtractor?
[16:07] <holstein> maybe harmonyseq or seq24
[16:07] <holstein> JAMin is nice for "mastering"
[16:08] <Submarine> thanks for the suggestions
[16:08] <holstein> maybe an arpeggiator?
[16:08] <holstein> rakarrack is nice, and not just for guitars
[16:09]  * Submarine looks at arpeggiators
[16:10] <Submarine> regarding soft synths, I've used Yoshimi, Aeolus...
[16:10] <Submarine> and the Hammond B3 emulator
[16:10] <holstein> xsynth and whysynth are fun
[16:12] <holstein> i would check out http://wootangent.net/category/music/tutorials/
[16:12] <holstein> you prolly know a lot of it already
[16:14] <Submarine> well, I still encounter mysteries
[16:14] <harry__> DAW is a constant learning process
[16:14] <Submarine> like how to have uneven speed
[16:14] <Submarine> and everything keeps in sync
[16:15] <Submarine> one problem is that just every apps like to believe it is the master time
[16:15] <holstein> i would just play something in analog that is going to keep the time
[16:15] <holstein> call that the "master" and play everything along with it
[16:15] <Submarine> I mean, how do you call it, these tempo tracks
[16:15] <holstein> i do very little MIDI though, and usually just do things like
[16:15] <holstein> live*
[16:16] <holstein> Submarine: you can always create a tempo track
[16:17] <holstein> how do the pro's do it?
[16:17] <holstein> they dont use JACK and the tools we use.. they dont necessarily have the opportunity to do it all at once like that
[16:17] <Submarine> I suppose they use software that can effectively use a tempo track without mishaps.
[16:18] <holstein> they would create some master tempo track somehow though
[16:18] <holstein> Submarine: you just need to learn to make one, and use it
[16:18] <holstein> i would literally tap the tempo out near a mic while humming the tune
[16:18] <holstein> then, start replacing
[18:52] <ollie_> Hey, what benefits do I get from installing this instead of another distro if I wasn't planning on using the supplied DAW, but Reaper in WINE instead?
[18:58] <mlpug> ollie_, I guess not much
[18:59] <mlpug> its one of the much used distros so my argument to use it that you find more related information from various forums, irc etc
[18:59] <ollie_> I'm using an ubuntu based distro as it is though
[19:00] <ollie_> I assume the low latency kernel is still useful, right?
[19:39] <MaynardWaters> What is Reaper ?
[19:39] <MaynardWaters> mlpug
[19:42] <magicguitarman> It's a DAW. http://www.reaper.fm/ meant to be cheap and pretty good
[19:42] <magicguitarman> I haven't used it myself but my bass player has and likes it.
[19:43] <MaynardWaters> thanks magicguitarman
[19:44] <magicguitarman> no problem
[19:44] <MaynardWaters> ive been able to get ableton to work under wine, that along with cool edit pro 2.0 seem to run well on ubuntu
[19:45] <magicguitarman> My only experience of WINE is the odd game. I'm happy with Ardour and RoseGarden when I do any recording/arranging
[21:08] <devtekalpha> Can you make just as good audio productions on linux as you can with windows?
[21:10] <devtekalpha> I want to move to using linux and freeware will i still be able to make professional sound?
[21:11] <magicguitarman> Yes, I would say so, but it's going to take some learning. Like with any move, there's new ways of doing things
[21:13] <devtekalpha> Well as long as it is possible im willing to learn :)
[21:14] <magicguitarman> What do you use at the moment?
[21:14] <devtekalpha> Vista. Reaper. Free vsts. Sound forge. Wavelab
[21:15] <magicguitarman> Reaper will actually work using WINE. But I'd recommend making the leap as native apps run better.
[21:16] <devtekalpha> Cool. What would you reccommend instead of using reaper and soundforge
[21:16] <magicguitarman> I suggest reading up on, and testing Ardour, RoseGarden, Hydrogen,FluidSynth and LinuxSampler
[21:17] <magicguitarman> That should give you a start
[21:17] <devtekalpha> Cool thanks ill look them up
[21:17] <magicguitarman> No problem


[05:07] <pleia2> adding final beta announcement to the fridge
[06:00] <pleia2> ..eventually
[06:32]  * pleia2 sleep &
[20:53] <pleia2> newsletter shaping up nicely this week
[20:53] <pleia2> move dholbach's post up to the planet (other community news should be for non-planet things, dholbach's blog goes to the planet)
[21:03] <ahoneybun> pleia2: hello


[00:28] <prpplague> just fyi for anyone interested, the call for participation for ELC-E end august 1 - https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/embedded-linux-conference-europe/cfp
[01:52] <lilstevie> janimo: well, personally I do not trust his stuff as far as I can throw him, he has been a massive pain with things like not being even able to identify the root device, and he doesn't really know what he is doing
[06:41] <janimo> lilstevie, I don't know whom you are referning to anymore, I saw about 3 3.1 based kernel trees on xda :(
 lilstevie, do you know anything about the status of the 3.1 jhinta kernel for tf101? It sort of boots here, but hangs on starting network manager
[07:14] <lilstevie> ^^ that one
[07:20] <janimo> lilstevie, ah ok. INdeed that's the last one I tried. It boots but touchpad at least does not work
[07:22] <lilstevie> janimo: I have had serious problems with him in the past
[07:24] <janimo> lilstevie, it baffles me that in such a large community there's no 'blessed' git tree where everyone tries to build from an improve on. Instead there are from scratch ports and people posting binaries and zips around on megaupload for others to test
[07:25] <lilstevie> janimo: welcome to the world of donation hustling
[10:26] <sveinse> I'm running qemu-debootstrap to fetch natty armel. However, often than not, it fails with could not download package, or failed to get release file. The server it's using is a local mirror on our lan (and its working fine). Have anyone else had any experience with this issue?
[12:26] <tinti> sveinse: which error?
[13:17] <Just-in> so running into a issue when trying to unpack the 12.04 image for Beagleboard XM. Im running the comand md5sum ubuntu-12.04-r3-minimal-armhf.tar.xz and it gives me errors.
[13:19] <Just-in> tar: xz: Cannot exec: No such file or directory I checked and the file is in home. Did the md5sum check and it picked the file right up.
[13:21] <ogra_> unpacking ?
[13:21] <ogra_> where did you get that image from ? thats definitely not an official one
[13:21] <ogra_> (there is nothing to unpack with the official ubuntu images)
[13:22] <Just-in> got it from here http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu#Demo_Image
[13:23] <ogra_> right, not an ubuntu image,  ask the creator
[13:23] <ogra_> (which is likely robert c. nelson (rcn-ee), judging by the url)
[13:24] <Just-in> is there a better image for the beagle board xm you may know of?
[13:24] <ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP that links to the official images
[13:25] <Just-in> sweet got it.
[13:44] <smplman> xranby_ac100: yea i looked at linaro stuff
[13:50] <Just-in> WOO sd card is written and set up. Thanks for the help!
[13:51] <ogra_> note that the desktop install requires a monitor for the initial setup
[13:51] <ogra_> if you want to use serial you need to use the server image
[13:53] <Just-in> Im useing the desktop one so ill grab a monitor with dvi.
[13:53]  * ogra_ sighs, still no sign of life with the ac100 images
[13:53] <Just-in> thats not good
[13:54] <ogra_> janimo, did you ever look into why we cant use more than 2M for the ac100 initrds ?
[13:54] <ogra_> seems the quantal one is 2.6M ... and quantal images hang at the toshiba splash
[14:57] <janimo> ogra_, never looked at that, only knew - from you - that there is a limit
[14:58] <janimo> ogra_, is this a know limitation of the bootloader, known by the whole ac100 community?
[15:33] <ogra_> janimo, well, i dont know if its known by anyone, i just see it exploding if i pass a certain size
[15:34] <janimo> ogra_, O
[15:34] <janimo> I mean I'll have a look too :)
[15:36] <janimo> ogra_, what did quantal add that increased the initramfs size? I recall you saying that's the reason we should not add Ubuntu SAUCE as cryptsetup would increase the size too much
[15:36] <ogra_> well, i tink binaries just got bigger
[15:36] <ogra_> though ...
[15:37] <ogra_> it seems dropping the cmdline makes it boot ?!?
[15:39] <ogra_> (which is indeed bad since i cant get a working tty without console=tty1)
[15:52] <janimo> ogra_, so droppping the cmdline entirely lets it boot but any cmdline options causes hangs? that is indeed weird
[15:52] <janimo> ogra_, is console=tty1 needed as a workaround for plymouth + 3.1 kernel issues?
[15:53] <ogra_> no, its needed for the broken kernel
[15:53] <ogra_> afaik marvin24 still waits for a fix from nvidia for that one
[15:53] <janimo> ogra_, but the same thing that chmod -x plymouthd works around?
[15:53] <ogra_> you dont get any tty output without it
[15:53] <ogra_> so i got it booting but have a black screen
[15:57] <janimo> ogra_, even X does not show?
[15:58] <ogra_> no X in the installer :)
[16:07]  * ogra_ tries with only console=tty1 added
[16:16] <ogra_> janimo, hmm, ok, seems i got it up to a point where i get output and dont hang in the bootloader, but now it panics
[16:16] <janimo> ogra_, ah the tarball installer. But good, progress :)
[16:16] <ogra_> "stack-protector: Kernel stack is corrupted in: c06a594c"
[16:16] <ogra_> no idea what to do with that ... especially since i cant scroll back now
[16:17] <janimo> your own zImage or quantal deb?
[16:17] <ogra_> quantal deb
[16:17] <janimo> a cusotm kernel built is likely needed to debug it
[16:17] <janimo> I can try debugging it
[16:17] <ogra_> sigh, i feared that
[16:18] <ogra_> well, i have a shiny new fast desktop workstation here ... just finished building it ... i guess i should start trying a cross build one day ;)
[16:18] <janimo> ogra_, it's an excellent time to start cross compiling :)
[16:19] <ogra_> haha
[16:19] <janimo> if it is shiny new and fast you may get 2-3 minute kenrel builds
[16:19] <ogra_> not really, once we have the calxeda HW cross building will so be last century
[16:19] <janimo> my oldish core duo takes 20 min for a deb, and mucxh less for a barebones zImage
[16:19] <ogra_> you will just build with -j2048 and get 30sec kernel builds :)
[16:20] <janimo> you mean in 2015 :) ?
[16:20] <janimo> or do you know somethig I don't
[16:20] <ogra_> well, once we have the calxeda HW accessible for devs in the DC
[16:20] <janimo> by that time 32 core Core i9 will kick any ARM server's butt anyway :)
[16:20] <ogra_> lol
[16:21] <ogra_> well, we worked with Martyn for two years to make sure we dont need to do any bringup work, so we had a guarantee that we can immediately put the HW into the london DC ...
[16:21] <janimo> I used quad armadaxp for some builds and it is fast, but not quite as my laptop. is calxeda supposed to be much faster?
[16:22]  * ogra_ still doesnt get why that stuff went to lex ... but hey ... no more arm team, ...
[16:22] <ogra_> calxeda is supüposed to be much *more* ... not much *faster* :)
[16:23] <ogra_> you will simply drown in spare cores ;)
[16:23] <janimo> leave it to libreoffice builds to shame any hardware
[16:26] <ogra_> pfft
[16:26] <ogra_> if you build a kernel you can have a job for every .c file ... that should be really speedy ...
[16:27] <ogra_> for LibO its indeed bound to the slowest step of the build
[16:27] <janimo> memory will be a bottleneck for large c++ builds
[16:27] <janimo> I am not sure how much RAM calxeda hw has
[16:27] <ogra_> they have DIMM sockets afaik
[16:28] <janimo> it may not make sense to have more than -j8 if that fills up 2-3Gigs
[16:28] <ogra_> like the armadaxp you should be able to just pulg in ram ... though i think it can only address up to two G
[16:28] <janimo> well 32bit still, so limited indeed
[16:28] <ogra_> right
[16:29] <ogra_> the big advantage of claxeda is that you simply can throw cores at  a task if you need them ...
[16:29] <ogra_> s/cores/machines/
[16:29] <ogra_> would be good if the kernel could just merge the ram of these into one big chunk ;)
[16:41] <robher_> 4G RAM on calxeda
[16:45] <Just-in> Does the 12/04 arm image come with SGX video acceleration on it?
[16:49] <marvin24> janimo, ogra_: if you give me something to test, I can try it here
[16:50] <ogra_> well, i doubt you would see much more than i on your screen :)
[16:50] <marvin24> btw, we could try with a 2 MB zero file in the initrd to check if it is a loader or and expander problem
[16:50] <marvin24> ogra_: but I have a serial interface
[16:50] <janimo> Just-in, try the linaro panda images, those have sgx by default
[16:50] <janimo> make sure you pick the right flavour, only some have x11+sgx enabled
[16:51] <Just-in> will that work on a Beagle board xm?
[16:51] <ogra_> 12.04 has full SGX support
[16:51] <ogra_> oh, not on omap3
[16:51] <ogra_> and linaro wont have that either
[16:51] <Just-in> thats what i was afraid of.
[16:51] <ogra_> TI doesnt release the omap3 SGX drivers built for hardfloat
[16:52] <Just-in> should i back down to 11.10 then
[16:52] <ogra_> robher_, oh, how do you address the last GiG then ? PAE ?
[16:52] <Just-in> not sure how smooth it will run with out SGX
[16:53] <ogra_> what do you want to run ?
[16:53] <Just-in> so far all it will be is a pc for people to use during breaks till i get a tower in.
[16:53] <ogra_> the framebuffer driver is fine for all 2D stuff, its pretty usable even without SGX for normal desktop bits
[16:53] <Just-in> im sure they will want to watch youtube and all that.
[16:53] <ogra_> LOL
[16:53] <ogra_> you surely picked the wrong arch
[16:54] <Just-in> im starting to agree
[16:54] <ogra_> (no flash for arm linux ...)
[16:54] <Just-in> then they have no youtube
[16:54] <Just-in> they can live
[16:54] <ogra_> right
[16:54] <robher_> ogra_:  1G kernel, 3G user
[16:54] <janimo> Just-in, listen to ogra, I am not uptodate with panda/sgx
[16:54] <ogra_> janimo, not panda, beagle :)
[16:55] <Just-in> i wonder if Zsnes will run ok.
[16:55] <ogra_> i dont think that needs 3D support in any way
[16:55] <Just-in> shouldnt
[16:55]  * ogra_ has to run out and pick up his GF from a 50km away dentist appointment ...
[16:56] <Just-in> ouch
[16:56] <ogra_> i wonder if other peoples GFs pick their dentist in the town they live in :P
[16:56] <Just-in> mine didnt
[16:56] <ogra_> heh, so i'm not alone
[16:56] <Just-in> i think it so we have to go and get them
[16:56] <Just-in> and listen to the drugged up convos on the drive home.
[16:57] <ogra_> haha
[16:58] <Just-in> aww man i just remebered i have some old usb game pads for the old cable set top boxes i could use for zsnes...
[16:58] <Just-in> today is a great day
[17:13] <marvin24> ogra_: I've put a 10MB file (full of zeros) into the initrd and it still boots
[17:20] <marvin24> a 3MB file full of "randoms" gives an oops on boot ;-)
[17:27] <janimo> marvin24, does a 10Mb initrd fit in the boot partition?
[17:27] <marvin24> sure, if it's full of zeros it will be compress very well :-)
[17:27] <marvin24> oops -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1088351/
[17:28] <janimo> marvin24, ah uncompressed 10M
[17:28] <Just-in> what hardwar eyou running that on?
[17:29] <marvin24> Just-in: ac100
[17:29] <marvin24> the oops looks like it cannot find the root fs
[17:29] <Just-in> well isnt that a neat looking netbook
[17:30] <Just-in> dear god that came with 2.1 on it
[17:30] <marvin24> sure my dear
[17:30] <marvin24> yes, that was an epic fail
[17:30] <marvin24> but a nice hw ;-)
[17:30] <Just-in> man
[17:31] <Just-in> would have liked to see 1gb ram matched with the tegra
[17:32] <marvin24> given that most other have 1GB ...
[17:33] <marvin24> chromeos would have been better on it
[17:33] <marvin24> but linux desktop also works nice with zram enabled
[17:33] <janimo> indeed, a new toshiba with tegra3 and 2Gb of RAM would be an awesome netbook. Too bad there's no market for it
[17:33] <Just-in> yeah
[17:33] <Just-in> i like my little netbook
[17:34] <Just-in> best 700 i ever spent
[17:34]  * marvin24 only spend 120 ...
[17:34] <marvin24> for his 2nd one
[17:34]  * Just-in has a I7 and nvidia 335m
[17:34] <Just-in> nothign better then gaming on a plane ride
[17:35] <marvin24> and you call this a netbook?
[17:35] <marvin24> time has passes sooo fast ...
[17:36] <Just-in> it has a 11 inch screen and no cd drive so..
[17:36] <Just-in> a uber netbook?
[17:36] <marvin24> or a heater
[17:36] <Just-in> lol
[17:37] <Just-in> Shockley doesnt get to hot
[17:39] <marvin24> ah, "Initramfs unpacking failed: uncompression error"
[17:40] <marvin24> so likely a kernel thing
[18:05] <janimo> ogra_, git clone -b packaging-3.1  git://kernel.ubuntu.com/jani/ubuntu-ac100.git
[18:05] <janimo> CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabihf-  ARCH=arm make paz00_defconfig
[18:06] <janimo> CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabihf-  ARCH=arm make  -j 16 zImage
[18:06] <janimo> or whatever, depending how many cores you have :)
[18:06] <janimo> you probably get a zImage in 1 minute
[18:11] <stgraber> ogra_: are today's omap4 images working for you?
[18:17] <ogra_> stgraber, i havent tested omap4 since the alpha release
[18:17] <ogra_> but they should
[18:21] <stgraber> ogra_: it's failing with "oem-config/enable doesn't exist" here... I haven't been able to install for a reason or another for over a week now :) (testing with edubuntu though, but shouldn't make a difference)
[18:22] <stgraber> starting an install with -d now, hopefully I can figure out what's going on
[18:56] <marvin24> ogra_: I think the compressed initrd is either not loaded completely, or the end is overwritten after load
[18:57] <marvin24> I tried to increase initrd_phys, but no change
[19:04] <infinity> marvin24: With which bootloader?
[19:04] <infinity> marvin24: If this is under uBoot, try setting "setenv initrd_high 0xffffffff"
[19:05] <infinity> marvin24: If fastboot, no idea.
[19:06] <marvin24> fastboot ...
[19:06] <marvin24> I ask a u-boot user to try on #ac100
[19:06] <infinity> If it's just too big, it could be getting truncated in the boot partition?
[19:18] <marvin24> no, nvflash would fail
[19:19] <marvin24> infinity: but if the kernel uncompresseds the initrd over the compressed initrd, we have a problem
[19:19] <marvin24> AFAIK, the mem layout is kernel, compressed initrd, uncompressed initrd
[19:19] <marvin24> there is also something tiny before the kernel
[19:24] <ogra_> stgraber, erm ... are you sure you are testing a live image ? we dont roll preinstalleds anymore apart from ac100
[19:24] <ogra_> (i dont think live does anything with oem-config by default)
[19:27] <stgraber> ogra_: it's definitely a live image ;)
[19:27] <ogra_> weird
[19:27] <stgraber> ogra_: it's crashing right after hw-detect so I'm testing the new ubiquity as Colin added some debugging in that area of the code
[19:28] <ogra_> i wonder where that comes from then ... we used to use oem-config indeed on the preinstalleds
[19:28] <stgraber> based on some other bug reports on LP, the error might be completely unrelated to the problem ;)
[19:29] <ogra_> heh, hopefully
[19:32] <stgraber> well, maybe for you, but I'm not looking forward to debug something where the only error message has nothing to do with the problem :)
[19:33] <stgraber> though it's pretty rare to get an "obvious" ubiquity bug these days, they're all weird race conditions triggering a crash 5 minutes after the actual problem happened
[19:41] <Inoperable> hi
[19:41] <Inoperable> anybody alive in here?
[19:42] <ogra_> stgraber, i'll test omap4 tomorrow, in case you didnt get to the issue yet, i'll take a look as well
[19:43] <ogra_> omap4 was simply out of my focus for a few days ... fighting with debian-cd and the ac100 issues
[19:47] <Inoperable> ogra_, ac100 is a tegra2 thing, right?
[19:47] <Inoperable> im trying to get debian on eee pad transformer
[19:47] <Inoperable> is working pretty well as far as you use the console ;)
[19:49] <ogra_> Inoperable, lilstevie does the same with ubuntu :)
[19:54] <Inoperable> ogra_, yeah i know - just got his OLife opened on the console ;)
[19:54] <Inoperable> and flashing it like 234 time
[19:55] <Inoperable> i guess i'm gonna fry that flash ram sooner or later
[19:56] <Inoperable> lilstevie, what is this tegra 2 flash thing? i wanted to beta test ;)
[20:07] <marvin24> btw, will ubuntu pack http://nv-tegra.nvidia.com/gitweb/?p=tools/tegrarcm.git;a=summary ?
[20:07] <marvin24> it is an open-source nvflash replacement
[20:08] <infinity> Oo.
[20:08] <infinity> Works on all the same devices?
[20:08] <infinity> And does the same thing?
[20:08] <marvin24> works on all tegra devices
[20:09] <marvin24> only for flashing via usb
[20:09] <ogra_> marvin24, i'm on it but it moved down on my TODO
[20:09] <ogra_> srwarren pointed me to is two weeks ago
[20:09] <ogra_> s/is/it/
[20:09] <marvin24> ogra_: cool, thanks!
[20:11] <infinity> ogra_: Do you maintain anything in Debian?
[20:11] <ogra_> infinity, its the free nvflash that exists way longer than nvflash already (internally at nvidia)
[20:11] <infinity> ogra_: I'd either (a) sponsor that for you, or (b) do the Debian maintenance.
[20:11] <ogra_> infinity, well, i was wondering about DD :)
[20:12] <infinity> Right, well, you maintaining and me sponsoring it for you is a good step on the road to DDship.
[20:12] <ogra_> but essentially i'm doing that since i started at canonical ...
[20:13] <ogra_> though being flash-kernel uploader in debian would massively help, stuff starts piling up again already ...
[20:58] <Inoperable> marvin24, any docs for tegra-rcm?
[20:58] <Inoperable> i just compiled it and it runs - but i dont know how to use it hehe
[21:00] <Inoperable> the readme does not says a lot ;)
[21:08] <Inoperable> well nevermind
[21:08] <Inoperable> does anybody got a working 3.1 kernel on tegra2?


[07:57] <knome> Unit193, right, yes
[15:24] <Unit193> pa, verve, whisker up.  Latter two can sync.
[16:38] <Iolo> j #xubuntu-offtopic
[16:38] <Iolo> oops, sorry about that
[17:43] <Unit193> knome: You gonna fix 'em permissions for me?
[17:48] <Tonialv> hola
[17:49] <Tonialv> alguien ha instalado freecad en xubunto 18.04?
[17:50] <Unit193> You may wish to use #xubuntu for support, or #ubuntu-es if you plan to speak in Spanish.
[17:51] <Tonialv> Has anyone installed freecad in xybuntu 18.04?
[17:52] <Unit193> Someone somewhere might have, I don't know really.  I haven't.
[17:53] <Tonialv> my problem is that the icon is not installed in the menu
[21:20] <ochosi> bluesabre: we may want to pull in this tiny fix to 18.04 asap, otherwise the ratings in gnome software remain broken... https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/commit/9efbd4a14cbae1a8b05536afff262b67ead6d33e
[21:21] <bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty, sounds like a plan
[21:45] <ochosi> ali1234: mousepad doesnt have a "disable-server" option here, what's that supposed to do?
[21:45] <ali1234> stops it from opening a new window in the existing process and then immediately exiting
[21:46] <ochosi> odd, why would it not have that option here
[21:46] <ochosi> so you just manually replaced the colors in mousepad in each file..?
[21:46] <ali1234> yes
[21:46] <ochosi> oh ok
[21:47] <ochosi> wouldn't a sed type of replacement with python have been much easier?
[21:47] <ochosi> or was that too error-prone for some reason
[21:47] <ali1234> it would have taken much longer to code it
[21:47] <ali1234> doing it by hand only took about 20 minutes
[21:48] <ochosi> true, plus that's still much less than doing it with inkscape :D
[21:56] <ochosi> ali1234: i just tried with a similar use-case with atom (search and replace over the whole project) and it took 1min :>


[10:43] <guiverc> Fallen, just fyi, but I believe I have access to fridge.calendar, but I don't use google.calendar myself & with so few requests to change details on the fridge calendar I'd say I'm 'rusty' at best..  (I have changed stuff before, but it was a long time ago & rarely)
[10:43] <Fallen> Good to know guiverc , thank you! It is fairly straightforward via calendar.google.com, but I'm also happy to help with requests if you get any!
[10:44] <alocer> guiverc: fridge calendar? can i help?
[10:44] <guiverc> I have no need, my response was to a ML email I just read
[10:45] <guiverc> but thanks alocer
[10:45] <alocer> LOL, I thought thats a new application, sorry mate, i'm still laughing to myself.
[10:50] <guiverc> uwn 745 posted to fb (what I didn't have time this morning for)
[10:53] <krytarik> Fallen: I've just checked to make sure I remember right, and I also have access to make changes to the calender, but indeed can't add other people to its access list.
[15:21] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Sunamu is a Slick ‘Now Playing’ Widget for Your Desktop @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/07/sunamu-now-playing-linux-desktop-widget (by Joey Sneddon)
[21:23] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Fridge:: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 745 @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2022/07/25/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-745/ (by guiverc)
[21:33] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Omnichannel Enablement: 4 technology success factors @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/omnichannel-enablement-4-technology-success-factors


[14:30] <cpaelzer> pre-ping for MIR Meeting - sarnold doko didrocks ddstreet jamespage joeubuntu
[14:30] <jamespage> o/
[14:30] <jamespage> afternoon/good morning
[14:30] <ddstreet> o/
[14:31] <didrocks> hey
[14:31] <cpaelzer> hiho, let us get this started
[14:31] <cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
[14:31] <sarnold> good morning
[14:31] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 26 14:31:49 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:31] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[14:31] <cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
[14:32] <cpaelzer> no open actions left
[14:32] <cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
[14:32] <cpaelzer> this will be intereting this week :-)
[14:32] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
[14:32] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
[14:32] <cpaelzer> many things were mentioned before
[14:32] <didrocks> FYI, I will take care of appstream
[14:32] <cpaelzer> so we don't need to talk about maas or apport
[14:32] <cpaelzer> thanks for appstream didrocks
[14:33] <cpaelzer> heat is on jamespage and he is aware (last week)
[14:33] <cpaelzer> two entries are new
[14:33] <cpaelzer> kazoo -> some pytohn libs
[14:33] <cpaelzer> does anyone know wht we have kazoo for?
[14:33]  * jamespage sighs
[14:33] <jamespage> guess
[14:34] <cpaelzer> so it is part of your (ka)zoo of packages jamespage
[14:34] <cpaelzer> can we leave it to you unless you call out ot us then?
[14:34] <jamespage> yah
[14:35] <cpaelzer> ok, now the more awkward case
[14:35] <cpaelzer> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfile-desktopentry-perl into ... a lot
[14:35] <cpaelzer> I was pinging on #ubuntu-devel a few minutes ago if this is known with the people on +1 duty
[14:35] <sarnold> wow
[14:35] <cpaelzer> but at least paride didn't hear anything
[14:37] <sarnold> here's the diff from focal https://launchpadlibrarian.net/480983756/libfile-desktopentry-perl_0.22-1_0.22-2.diff.gz -- I can'
[14:37] <cpaelzer> I was checking dependencies Focal vs Groovy
[14:37] <sarnold> can't spot anything that looks related either..
[14:37] <cpaelzer> Recommends: x-terminal-emulator
[14:37] <cpaelzer> that is new
[14:38] <cpaelzer> is that a provides that randomly pulls in any of the providers?
[14:38] <cpaelzer> yep
[14:38] <cpaelzer> I'd assume we have gnome-terminal in main didrocks right?
[14:38] <didrocks> of course :)
[14:39] <cpaelzer> so this is a case where I think I need to touch the tools rendering this report
[14:39] <sarnold> similar to the apport -> terminator thing?
[14:39] <cpaelzer> it is as apport->terminator
[14:39] <cpaelzer> yeah
[14:39] <cpaelzer> let me take this as an action
[14:39] <didrocks> yeah, alternatives and provides are complex between apt and livecd-rootfs build
[14:40] <cpaelzer> ok, I've taken a note
[14:40] <cpaelzer> no promise it will work, but I'll have taken a look by next week
[14:40] <cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
[14:40] <sarnold> :)
[14:40] <cpaelzer> this contains only one which is the one to complete jamespage trio of todos toda
[14:41] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[14:41] <cpaelzer> the one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jeepney/+bug/1861268
[14:41] <cpaelzer> jamespage: you did the review and then you postponed it until >20.04
[14:41] <cpaelzer> I think this is ready now and in the past you said it needs security
[14:41] <cpaelzer> so if you could give it a quick look and if that is correct assign the security team for a review?
[14:42] <cpaelzer> that probably is a 1 min task for you jamespage and then a new trello card in the queue for sarnold
[14:43] <cpaelzer> ok to leaver that with you jamespage?
[14:43] <cpaelzer> s/leaver/leave/
[14:43] <jamespage> yep - I can re-visit as I think we agreed todo this this cycle
[14:43] <cpaelzer> ok, bug assigned to you
[14:43] <jamespage> ta
[14:43] <cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
[14:43] <sarnold> another bug currently in Incomplete but perhaps raising at the moment is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openscap/+bug/1877696
[14:43] <jamespage> kazoo - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-tooz/+bug/1880705
[14:43] <jamespage> btw
[14:43] <cpaelzer> there was only one update where doko pinged on a bug
[14:43] <cpaelzer> nothing to discuss here
[14:43] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[14:43] <cpaelzer> therefore we can go on to
[14:44] <cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
[14:44] <didrocks> nothing for me
[14:44] <cpaelzer> ok we got fast and efficient - <15 min despite having content in most categories
[14:44] <cpaelzer> anything from anyone that needs to be discussed here?
[14:44] <cpaelzer> ok then we will stop (some new and interesting counting methods) at 300
[14:45] <cpaelzer> 0.03
[14:45] <cpaelzer> 0.3
[14:45] <cpaelzer> 3
[14:45] <cpaelzer> 30
[14:45] <cpaelzer> 300
[14:45] <didrocks> :)
[14:45] <cpaelzer> ok we are good, thanks everyone
[14:45] <sarnold> :) thanks!
[14:45] <cpaelzer> see you next week
[14:45] <ddstreet> o/
[14:45] <didrocks> thanks!
[14:45] <cpaelzer> #endmeeting
[14:45] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 26 14:45:26 2020 UTC.
[14:45] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-05-26-14.31.moin.txt
[14:46] <jamespage> thanks cpaelzer
[16:27] <luna_> also i remembered todays Firefox 77 Meeting collides so can't attend anyways :P