[05:10] <setuid> infinity: Why no manpage for usplash?
[05:10] <setuid> tsk tsk!
[05:11] <setuid> And some wacky README about BOGL, but not usplash
[05:12] <setuid> oh, n/m... but the missing manpage is kind of a buggefr
[05:12] <setuid> er, bugger
[05:13] <lh317> i think I'm of the mind bootup should be so fast tehre is no need for a splash screen ;)
[05:14] <lh317> and on a server, why does it even have a monitor? ;)
[05:14] <setuid> I was just poking at it
[05:14] <setuid> it doesn't do anything anyway
[07:18] <bintut> is ubuntu already good as production server?
[07:35] <lh317> define "good"
[07:35] <lh317> and "production"
[07:36] <bintut> mail server.. stable for production.. supported by community especially on security fixes..
[07:38] <fabbione> yes
[07:38] <lh317> well, the latter is questionable, as you have to run universe, adn universe isn't 'offically supported'
[07:39] <bintut> fabbione: you mean, ubuntu is already much like debian for its support?
[07:39] <lh317> if you need an actual contracted support for security, you're stuck with RHEL or SUEL pretty much.
[07:39] <fabbione> lh317: wrong
[07:39] <lh317> sine when have they reversed their universe policy?
[07:39] <fabbione> bintut: we do provide security updates for everything that is in main
[07:40] <fabbione> bintut: and that's for free
[07:40] <fabbione> bintut: time is about 18 months for breezy and 5 years for dapper
[07:40] <fabbione> bintut: if you need way more than that, i suggest you discuss a possible support contract with canonical
[07:40] <fabbione> lh317: no changes in that direction
[07:41] <lh317> fabbione: then what I said is true.
[07:41] <lh317> you have to run universe, unless all you want is just postfix or exim.
 if you need an actual contracted support for security, you're stuck with RHEL or SUEL pretty much.
[07:41] <fabbione> this is wrong
[07:41] <fabbione> because Canonical do offer contracted support
[07:41] <lh317> fabbione: for universe?
[07:41] <fabbione> and security for main has been always free
[07:41] <fabbione> lh317: if you need support for universe you can get it if you pay
[07:41] <lh317> curiosity, link?
[07:41] <fabbione> but that's something you need to agree with Canonical
[07:42] <bintut> fabbione: i'm about to setup a server.. i can actually support my server but not the security fixes
[07:42] <fabbione> www.canonical.com ?
[07:42] <lh317> link to pay support contracts for universe?
[07:42] <bintut> brb.. i have a phone call
[07:42] <fabbione> bintut: if your server is made only by pkgs in main, you get security for free
[07:42] <bintut> fabbione: i'll talk to you later..
[07:42] <fabbione> lh317: that's something you discuss on a per contract base
[07:42] <bintut> fabbione: yeah..
[07:43] <lh317> fabbione: which means if you're not willing to deal, you're stuck.  I'll amend then, if you need OOB support, you're stuck with RHEL or SUEL.
[07:44] <fabbione> lh317: ok.. let's put it in another way since you don't understand...
[07:44] <lh317> can I buy a ubuntu cd and get unvierse support OOB?
[07:44] <fabbione> there are no ubuntu cd you can buy
[07:44] <lh317> No.  Therefore, if you need out of box security contract for the full offering, you arent running Ubuntu.
[07:44] <fabbione> ubuntu is free
[07:45] <lh317> i didn't literally mean buy a cd.
[07:45] <fabbione> jeee you are so way out of your mind
[07:45] <lh317> i can't get a universe support contract without negoiating.
[07:45] <lh317> I can go to redhat.com and buy a contract with jsut a credit card and a mouse click.
[07:45] <fabbione> no because that would utterly expensive
[07:45] <lh317> that is a big deal for some groups.
[07:45] <fabbione> how many packages are in rh?
[07:45] <fabbione> how many in universe?
[07:46] <fabbione> make a comparison
[07:46] <fabbione> than
[07:46] <fabbione> then
[07:46] <fabbione> think this way
[07:46] <fabbione> you have all main for freee
[07:46] <lh317> fabbione: compared main to rhel, especially for a server.
[07:46] <fabbione> that's about dunno.. 4400 binary pkgs?
[07:46] <fabbione> if you need one or two pkgs from universe you pay only for those
[07:46] <fabbione> instead of paying BIGFAT amount for stuff you don't even need to care about
[07:47] <fabbione> but of course..
[07:47] <fabbione> if you want to pay for everything you don't need.. go redhat
[07:47] <lh317> ... you obviously missed the whole OOB part.
[07:47] <lh317> if I'm installing a box for a customer, negoiating a support contract for a single box is out of the question.
[07:48] <lh317> they won't do it, adn I can't act for them.
[07:49] <lh317> of course, tbf, RHEL is a double-edged sword anyway.  they have a package that can do what you want.  But it isn't the package you want or the version you want.
[07:50] <bintut> fabbione: in that case, if i'll use dapper now as a server, the packages i fethed from the universe will not be updated to the latest security fixes?
[07:50] <fabbione> as i said many other times.. you choose what fits you best :)
[07:50] <fabbione> bintut: universe is not supported by default. so no.
[07:50] <fabbione> bintut: if you need support for universe you want to talk with Canonical
[07:51] <fabbione> bintut: also.. take into account that Dapper is still in development
[07:51] <bintut> fabbione: who provide the packages for universe?  is it canonical or the community?
[07:51] <fabbione> bintut: community
[07:51] <bintut> fabbione: yeah, i know that dapper is in dev stage
[07:51] <fabbione> bintut: but if you need support for them, Canonical will provide them for you
[07:52] <fabbione> bintut: you get the idea.. i guess
[07:52] <bintut> fabbione: are you connected with canonical?
[07:52] <fabbione> bintut: yes. i have been working for canonical since the beginning of light
[07:52] <bintut> fabbione: cool!  :)
[07:53] <fabbione> bintut: but i am not the person you want to talk about contracts or support.. really
[07:53] <fabbione> bintut: there is an email address on canonical.com
[07:54] <bintut> fabbione: i'll ask you personally and hopefully you won't be biased: do you think that the community that provides the packages in the universe will provide their own security updates for dapper later on?
[07:54] <fabbione> bintut: i can tell from experience that it happens sporadicaly
[07:54] <fabbione> but not on a regular base
[07:55] <fabbione> i mean i do use universe packages myself
[07:56] <fabbione> but i know that i can't rely on them on supersecure servers
[07:56] <bintut> fabbione: is there additional patches that are being applied when packaging software in the universe?
[07:56] <fabbione> http://www.ubuntu.com/support
[07:56] <bintut> fabbione: yeah
[07:56] <fabbione> bintut: probably.. that depends from package to package
[07:56] <fabbione> there are about 11000 pkgs in universe.. i somehow lack the time to look at all of them :
[07:57] <bintut> fabbione: how will i know the server packages that will be included in the main source for dapper?
[07:57] <fabbione> there is a FAQ for that..
[07:57] <fabbione> let me find the link
[07:57] <bintut> fabbione: yes, please..
[07:57] <fabbione> i am not a big www/wiki lover
[07:57] <lh317> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/ubuntu-server-dapper/server
[07:57] <fabbione> that one
[07:57] <lh317> is what I had, dunno if it's the most update source or not.
[07:57] <fabbione> thanks lh317
[07:57] <fabbione> it is
[07:58] <lh317> they still need to seriously beef their mail server package sets.
[07:58] <fabbione> lh317: did you file wishlist bugs?
[07:58] <fabbione> or do you expect people to read your mind?
[07:59] <fabbione> (on the note: that list will be considered final only 15 days from release)
[07:59] <fabbione> (more or lesS)
[07:59] <lh317> no, I haven't, but it should be obvious that SA, one of amavais or mailscanner, etc ought to be included.
[08:00] <fabbione> that's exactly where community should be
[08:00] <fabbione> there is no such thing as obvious
[08:00] <lh317> ...
[08:00] <bintut> same comment here..
[08:01] <fabbione> lh317: you want SA and whatever scanner.. i don't.. somebody else wants it but in another brand/pkg versions
[08:01] <fabbione> (just an example of course)
[08:01] <fabbione> so there is no obviuos...
[08:01] <lh317> well, I understand that.  that's one thing.  But I haven't seen a, "pick which scanner will be in drake" thread or discussion or request of the community either, or even a bug to vote on.
[08:01] <fabbione> if community doesn't express wishes,,
[08:02] <fabbione> so consider yourself at fault for not bringing up the topic
[08:02] <lh317> fabbione: in this case, this is fundamental enough something should be selected.  Now, if you picked opposite my chocie and I didn't voice, i'd stfu.  but this is like selling a car and saying, tires optional IMO.
[08:02] <fabbione> fundamental to you
[08:02] <fabbione> and your working env
[08:03] <fabbione> are you aware that in some states/companies, spam filters are illegal?
[08:03] <lh317> i can't think of that many email environments where mailscanning isn't essential.
[08:03] <fabbione> i do :)
[08:03] <lh317> i'm aware.
[08:04] <bintut> postfix, sa, amavis-ng, clamav, openldap, samba, openvpn, squid, dansguardian, sarg, nagios, snort, ejabberd, etc..
[08:05] <fabbione> anyway.. time to wake up wife and start weekend :)
[08:05] <bintut> where can i post my request? sorry, i'm an ubuntu/debian newbie.. i'm a mandriva user for years..


[07:59] <ubotu> pastebin is, like, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/, a site for pasting long texts so you don't disrupt the channel - or install webboard in Gnome: http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1269
[08:00] <Benix> k
[08:00] <gringo> :)
[08:00] <richard> Good taking to all of you. ...going to now install Ubuntu on my 2nd hard drive. . ..
[08:00] <gringo> mart: this is what I love using Linux: You have the choice :D
[08:00] <mart> yeah... I need to put kdesvn on a second harddrive.
[08:01] <_icke> hi
[08:01] <Benix> gringo: http://kanotix.pastebin.com/715606
[08:01] <gringo> Benix: can you do a apt-get update, apt-get upgrade?
[08:02] <Benix> gringo: I told kubuntu to set language to german. Could this be a problem as there is no native kde-i18n-de
[08:02] <Benix> gringo: no, no loginshell appears. But chroot is possible
[08:02] <Benix> gringo: tried it few hours ago, but X didn't start either. Now it is a fresh install again
[08:02] <mart> Benix: lack of language packs is probably not the issue
[08:02] <gringo> Benix: Switch to console and do an upgrade
[08:03] <Benix> gringo: can't switch to any console
[08:03] <_icke> i fear i did something bad; I had troubles logging in. Someone suggested that My partition was too full, so I checked and this was true, it was 100% full. So I checked apt-get for any usefull femoval things and I noticed "apt-get clean" which supposedly would clean downloaded archives.
[08:03] <Benix> mart: hm,. ok
[08:03] <gringo> Benix: Why don't can that?
[08:03] <gringo> Benix: ctrl+alt+f1 for example
[08:04] <Benix> gringo: Because the system doesn't load any loginshell.
[08:04] <Benix> gringo: Yes, I know how to change a tty. Only tty1 and tty8 are present, but don't recognize any key-hits
[08:04] <_icke> now I have 1,6 GB free again and can log in @ the loginscreen, but some stuff is messed up; For example, the desktop/kicker does not load and my windows do not have any edges :
[08:05] <Lynoure> I found the way
[08:05] <_icke> did the "apt-get clean" throw away too much :S ?
[08:05] <mart> _icke: more likely your settings were corrupted because they couldn't be written.
[08:05] <Lynoure> _icke: It does not remove any installed stuff
[08:05] <_icke> thank god Lynoure
[08:06] <gringo> Benix: have you tried to use the recovery mode?
[08:06] <_icke> ill try a reboot
[08:06] <mart> _icke: it removes stuff from /var/cache/apt/archives
[08:06] <Benix> gringo: Well, kubuntu didn't install grub so I needed to use my "own" grub
[08:06] <_icke> but Mart, does that explain the weirdness i experience?
[08:06] <Benix> gringo: I was wondering why the installer didn't asked my to use lilo or grub
[08:07] <Benix> s/my/me
[08:07] <mart> _icke: no, but an overfull disk explains any weirdness.
[08:07] <Lynoure> _icke: It only gets rid of old installation packages. So it is pretty safe to do, I've only regretted it once (did it before testing that the new updates were fine and one of them broke my network... and at that point I did not have the installation file for the old versio anymore and had to get it on a floppy)
[08:07] <_icke> yes, but it is not overfull anymore
[08:07] <mart> Benix: I think you only get a choice in expert mode?
[08:08] <Benix> mart: possible. Didn't know that there is an expert mode ;)
[08:08] <gringo> mart: hmm no the installer asked me about grub installer in basic mode
[08:08] <gringo> installer/installation
[08:08] <mart> oh, right.  I heard they'd moved it.  I assumed it only asked because I was using XFS partitions.
[08:08] <Benix> gringo: I tried to install kubuntu today three times. It never asked me for grub or lilo
[08:08] <Benix> mart: I use xfs, too
[08:08] <Ahmuck> does kubuntu come with comiler tools :?
[08:08] <mart> yep
[08:09] <Ahmuck> compiler ?
[08:09] <Icke2> it does?
[08:09] <mart> sudo aptitude install build-essentials
[08:09] <melkor> Does anybody here use auctex?
[08:09] <evert_> hello , i'm having a little problem ... i can't get in X any more :( , since i tried to get 2 monitors working
[08:09] <mart> oh, not by defalt, if that's what you mean.
[08:09] <mart> melkor: sure.
[08:10] <mart> melkor: emacs-snapshot, preview-latex, tetex-extra seems to get everything I need for latex.
[08:10] <melkor> I've installed it but I ddon't what binary files to run
[08:10] <gringo> Benix: is there another Linux installed?
[08:10] <Benix> gringo: There has been a debianinstallation just before, but I removed it with mkfs.xfs
[08:11] <mart> melkor: er, just run emacs.
[08:11] <Benix> gringo: the installer formated it also again
[08:11] <Ahmuck> Reading package lists... Done
[08:11] <Ahmuck> Building dependency tree... Done
[08:11] <Ahmuck> E: Couldn't find package build-essentials
[08:11] <mart> sorry, drop the last s
[08:11] <mart> sudo aptitude install build-essential
[08:11] <mart> typo.
[08:13] <Benix> gringo: I also checked the DVD (CD-Version on it) successfully [via md5verification?!]
[08:13] <Ahmuck> why does apt-get require the cdrom to download a package from http ?
[08:13] <_icke> hmmm, reboot did not help
[08:13] <mart> Ahmuck: maybe some of the packages are coming from the CD and some from the server.
[08:13] <gringo> Benix: do you use a physically seperated /boot partition?
[08:13] <mart> _icke: what's wrong again?
[08:13] <Benix> gringo: yes, I do
[08:14] <Benix> gringo: shall I tell the kubuntu fstab to use that seperated /boot ?
[08:15] <Benix> gringo: But I don't believe that this might be the problem .... It would even start, I guess
[08:15] <_icke> I had a full disk so I could not login; did an "apt-get clean" so I have enough space free and now I am logged in, but there seems to be an issue with KDE; I can view the konsole and konversation windows, but the have no borders and i can not resize them, and there is no Kicker for example
[08:15] <Benix> wouldn't
[08:15] <gringo> Benix: hast /boot been formatted, too?
[08:15] <_icke> perhaps an problem with kdm methinks?
[08:15] <mart> Benix: the installer should write the fstab correctly
[08:15] <Benix> gringo: no, I need the files in /boot
[08:15] <gringo> Benix: I don't think that this has something to do with the login shell but with the grub thing
[08:15] <mart> _icke: what happens if you run kicker from the konsole?
[08:15] <Benix> gringo: thats possible
[08:16] <mart> _icke:  it could just be your session that's broken.
[08:16] <_icke> just launched kicker from Konsole, that worked
[08:16] <Delicate_Shadow> hi guys ... I'm back
[08:16] <melkor> mart: If I run emacs I don't have the LaTex menu, should that be there or do I have to do something to load auctex?
[08:16] <mart> _icke: run kwin?
[08:16] <_icke> YAY \o/
[08:16] <_icke> thanks
[08:17] <mart> melkor: you've opened a .tex file?
[08:17] <slow-motion> hallo
[08:17] <Delicate_Shadow> sorry gringo but I had to leave ... any luck ???
[08:17] <_icke> i think my session was messed up
[08:17] <melkor> no
[08:17] <melkor> can I make a new one?
[08:17] <mart> yes
[08:17] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: hi, didn't look further because you left :)
[08:17] <_icke> i'll log out and see if I had another session in my list, thanks a lot mart!
[08:17] <Benix> gringo: I know that this release is still beta . . . But I am a bit disappointed of kubuntu
[08:18] <_icke> ah
[08:18] <mart> _icke: you don't see the session list
[08:18] <_icke> i see i started a failsafe session
[08:18] <mart> _icke: no,
[08:18] <mart> no
[08:18] <Delicate_Shadow> it ok gringo
[08:18] <mart> _icke: I meant KDE session,
[08:18] <gringo> Benix: yes I can understand your feelings but I hove no idea, yet. Maybe someone in here can help? Common Guys!
[08:18] <gringo> have
[08:18] <Benix> gringo: Thanks so far
[08:18] <mart> what's Benix' problem?
[08:18] <_icke> just a sec
[08:19] <gringo> Benix: you're welcome
[08:19] <Delicate_Shadow> I found this Kwifimanager app gringo but I couldn't find any network !!!
[08:19] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: What problem are you talking about? :)
[08:19] <Benix> mart: After installing kubuntu succesfully, it hangs at: Entering Runlevel 7: No processes in this runlevel left.
[08:19] <Delicate_Shadow> I can't start the WIFI on my laptop gringo !!!!
[08:20] <mart> Benix: what's 7? isn't that reboot?
[08:20] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: ok, step by step :)
[08:20] <Delicate_Shadow> ok
[08:20] <Benix> mart: Hm, as a debianuser I would say init 7 does not exist
[08:20] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: First of all: what wifi adapter and what AP?
[08:20] <Benix> mart: init 6 is reboot
[08:20] <Benix> mart: but it really says Runlevel 7
[08:21] <Delicate_Shadow> how can I find out gringo ?
[08:21] <mart> hmm, 6 can't be reboot, there is an /etc/rc6.d
[08:21] <Benix> mart: ok, than ubuntu differs from debian in that case
[08:21] <mart> 7 must be reboot.
[08:21] <mart> Benix: I was pretty sure it was the same... I use debian also
[08:22] <Delicate_Shadow> I'm not that bad gringo but I don't want to make any mistakes
[08:22] <mart> Benix: debian has a /etc/rc6.d right?
[08:22] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: please type 'iwconfig' in console and pastebin it
[08:22] <gringo> !pastebin
[08:22] <ubotu> I heard pastebin is http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/, a site for pasting long texts so you don't disrupt the channel - or install webboard in Gnome: http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1269
[08:23] <_icke> mart; I fixed it; I logged out, back to the loginscreen, selected my "default" session and logged in
[08:23] <_icke> and now everything is as good as new
[08:23] <Benix> mart: well, I am just using Kanotix which is nearly debian sid. Kano, the maintainer of kanotix just told me, that if I count the parameter -S, then there are seven ;)
[08:23] <mart> cool
[08:23] <_icke> indeed
[08:23] <Delicate_Shadow> gringo found on on eth0
[08:23] <_icke> this is why i love kubuntu
[08:23] <mart> Benix: I'm pretty sure that debian and kubuntu use the same runlevels.
[08:23] <mart> Benix: so at what point does it hang?
[08:23] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: pastebin plz
[08:24] <Benix> mart: Just after: configuring network ... [ok]
[08:24] <Delicate_Shadow> eth0      unassociated  ESSID:off/any  Nickname:"default"
[08:24] <Delicate_Shadow>           Mode:Managed  Channel=0  Access Point: 00:00:00:00:00:00
[08:24] <Delicate_Shadow>           Bit Rate=0 kb/s   Tx-Power=20 dBm
[08:24] <Delicate_Shadow>           Retry limit:7   RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off
[08:24] <Delicate_Shadow>           Encryption key:off
[08:24] <Delicate_Shadow>           Power Management:off
[08:24] <Delicate_Shadow>           Link Quality:0  Signal level:0  Noise level:0
[08:24] <gringo> ...
[08:24] <Delicate_Shadow>           Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0
[08:24] <Delicate_Shadow>           Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0
[08:24] <mart> hey
[08:24] <gringo> !pastebin
[08:24] <ubotu> well, pastebin is http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/, a site for pasting long texts so you don't disrupt the channel - or install webboard in Gnome: http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1269
[08:24] <melkor> Okay I am reading a .texi file and I want to read it ... properly, can I do that from emacs?
[08:24] <mart> Delicate_Shadow: read the pastbin comment.
[08:25] <mart> melkor: texi? as in texinfo?
[08:25] <Benix> mart: I am just doing a dist-upgrade in chroot. This will may help, dunno
[08:25] <Delicate_Shadow> what do you mean by pastebin ?
[08:25] <melkor> Yes its the quick start file
[08:25] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: next time go to http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/ and just paste the link you'll get there :)
[08:26] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: ok, your wlan card seems to be detected properly
[08:26] <Benix> I am curious to find out if dapper is really more stable a debian sid ;)
[08:26] <mart> Benix: the development versions are pretty much the same
[08:26] <Delicate_Shadow> ok how can I turn it on and off for the battary !!!!
[08:26] <prospero2005> Does anyone know how to make firefox open thunderbird as the default mail client?
[08:27] <Benix> mart: Do you know if the ubuntu-project gives anything back to debian?
[08:27] <mart> Benix: yes
[08:27] <nico8481> re
[08:27] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: sudo ifdown eth0
[08:27] <Delicate_Shadow> ok
[08:28] <mart> Benix: they do, more so than, say, kanotix.
[08:28] <Delicate_Shadow> is there somewhere else I can do this from ??? gringo
[08:28] <Benix> mart: Well, kanotix is not comparable to (k)ubuntu
[08:29] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: Yes: open the menu: System Settings -> Network Settings -> Administrator Mode -> Disable
[08:29] <Benix> mart: And for kanotix there are some developers who uploads debs to incomong.debian.org. So they do offer something
[08:29] <mart> Benix: the debian QA system regularly pulls ubuntu patches and makes them available to debian devs.
[08:29] <mart> Benix: likewise for kubuntu.
[08:29] <Benix> mart: ah, interesting
[08:30] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: Tell me about the WLAN you want to connect to. Is ist using WEP/WPA? Has it a hidden SSID?
[08:30] <mart> Benix: remember that many of the ubuntu packagers are also debian devels
[08:30] <Delicate_Shadow> it's a dsl modem with wireless hub
[08:30] <Benix> mart: Yes, I read that in some debian mailinglists
[08:31] <Delicate_Shadow> I have disabled all the security stuff
[08:31] <Delicate_Shadow> loooooooooooooooooooooool
[08:32] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: ^^ remember to enable all that security 'stuff' after getting it running
[08:32] <Delicate_Shadow> yupe that's sure gringo
[08:32] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: so open KWifiManager
[08:33] <Delicate_Shadow> ok
[08:33] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: klick on 'Scan for Networks'
[08:34] <Delicate_Shadow> done
[08:34] <mart> melkor: what news?
[08:34] <Delicate_Shadow> I'm connected to the modem now gringo .... thank you very much
[08:35] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: you are welcome and now activate that security stuff :)
[08:35] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: I propose to install KNetworkManager
[08:35] <Delicate_Shadow> ok gringo I'm now
[08:36] <Delicate_Shadow> ok
[08:36] <Benix> mart: all in all I have to say that the kubuntu live is still far away from other installable live-cds.
[08:37] <mart> Benix: oh, never tried the live cd
[08:37] <Benix> mart: yeah, I will may have to use that textmode install
[08:37] <mart> Benix: text mode install is very pleasant if you're used to debian.
[08:38] <Delicate_Shadow> where can I find it gringo ?
[08:38] <Benix> mart: can't be more crazy than gentoo ;)
[08:38] <Benix> mart: I also installed breezy badger with textmode a few months ago
[08:39] <mart> Benix: well, at least it has an installer - I'm not sure you could say that about gentoo :)
[08:39] <Benix> .. so I wonder why the live-cd is recommented on ubuntu.com
[08:39] <Benix> mart: hehe
[08:39] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: sudo apt-get install knetworkmanager
[08:39] <Delicate_Shadow> gringo I have tried apt-get but couldn't find it
[08:39] <mart> Benix: gets you up and running faster I guess - if it works
[08:39] <Benix> mart: gentoo is the slowest distri, not the fastest
[08:40] <Delicate_Shadow> E: Couldn't find package knetworkmanager
[08:40] <Delicate_Shadow>  .............. gringo
[08:40] <mart> Benix: I don't care about that.  what annoys me is the number of bug reports I get from gentoo users
[08:40] <Benix> mart: If you stop all the time you need to install and compile your apps....
[08:40] <mart> Benix: I --> we
[08:40] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: activate the universe and multiverse repos
[08:40] <Benix> mart: oh
[08:40] <gringo> !repos
[08:40] <ubotu> To enable Universe and Multiverse see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto - Official sources.lists here: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6047 (Breezy) or http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6666 (Dapper) see also !easysource
[08:40] <mart> Benix: heh, there's a classic gentoo bug....
[08:41] <Delicate_Shadow> gringo I hate to be pain the @$$ but how can I do this ?>
[08:42] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: [20:40]  <ubotu> To enable Universe and Multiverse see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto - Official sources.lists here: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6047 (Breezy) or http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6666 (Dapper) see also !easysource
[08:43] <Delicate_Shadow> thank you very much gringo
[08:43] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: it is an easy step to do this, no worries
[08:43] <Delicate_Shadow> ok ok thanx pal
[08:43] <Benix> mart: which debian do you use? sid, testing or sarge?
[08:44] <gringo> Delicate_Shadow: yo're still welcome :)
[08:45] <mart> Benix: depends on the machine.
[08:45] <Benix> mart: freak ;)
[08:46] <mart> ?
[08:47] <Benix> mart: Not everyone has more than one pc
[08:47] <Benix> mart: but thats not unusual ;)
[08:47] <mart> Benix: some of us run servers.
[08:47] <mart> and they're not all PCs ;)
[08:47] <Benix> mart: cool.
[08:48] <mart> Benix: check this: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35890
[08:48] <mart> ^--- funny link.
[08:50] <Benix> mart: whaha. Very funny discussion ;)
[08:51] <Benix> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35890
[08:51] <Benix> ah
[08:51] <Benix> wrong part in my clipspace ...
[08:52] <Benix> So, completed d-u in chroot. Hope that helped .. Thanks so far mart and gringo
[08:52] <Benix> bbl
[08:52] <hastesaver> mart, wow, wth is that link? And the reporter is the Gaim author, right?
[08:53] <ahmeni> poor gentoo'ers :\
[09:07] <prospero2005> I just built a usb device that sends a 6 volt shock straight to my testicles every time my website gets a hit. --damn!
[09:08] <melkor> Hey thanks mart
[09:09] <gringo> prospero2005: ^^
[09:09] <mart> was that sarcasm?  or did the guy actually find me helpful?
[09:13] <edo> ciao
[09:13] <Eduz> come state?
[09:20] <gringo_> grr
[09:29] <evert_> hello all
[09:34] <monkee13> what is the best way to hook up kontact to my gmail and google calander?
[09:36] <mart> You can get it on you Kontact/Calendar component by pressing Add... button and selecting "Callendar in remote file" and then pasting this url:
[09:36] <mart> http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/<email-address>/public/basic
[09:36] <mart> according to something in my mail box
[09:36] <freemanen> Anyone who knows have to make ctrl works as second buttton on a mac with ubuntu?
[09:36] <mart> never actually tried it
[09:38] <gringo> freemanen: k menu -> run -> kcontrol -> Regional & ... -> Keyboard Shortcuts
[09:38] <freemanen> thanks
[09:39] <freemanen> is there any config file to look in? like in etc?
[09:39] <gringo> monkee13: the problem ist that google calendar only allows ical reading and not writing!
[09:40] <gringo> monkee13: they just released an API for that so it is a question of time time ;)
[09:42] <gringo> freemanen: i'm sure there is one but I don't know wich
[09:42] <mart> anyone managed to get mysql working in breezy?
[09:45] <monkee13> thanks gringo, i hope they someone creates it soon
[09:46] <_bbeck> mart: what's wrong?
[09:47] <mart> _bbeck: it won't install properly: http://rafb.net/paste/results/rvs3Hv46.html
[09:47] <mart> that's installing on a terminal with tail -f /var/log/syslog running in the background
[09:47] <litb> hi!
[09:48] <litb> my friend has problems booting the livecd
[09:48] <litb> it hangs on http://www.directupload.net/images/060513/v6Id6mOj.jpg
[09:50] <kkathman> litb: I'd hazard a guess its a bad CD
[09:50] <litb> i said that too
[09:50] <kkathman> no reason it should hang there at all
[09:50] <litb> but it's a fresh burnt one
[09:51] <kkathman> doesnt matter if it was burned wrong tho
[09:51] <litb> and the ISO has the correct md5sum
[09:51] <mart> I had to install from a different CD drive to the drive that I burned an iso from.
[09:52] <mart> the CD drive couldn't even read the CD it had written, so I had to boot from a DVD drive.
[09:52] <kkathman> litb all that step does is read the CD and load it into memory...and thats done within like 1 second
[09:52] <_bbeck> mart: Are you upgrading, or is this a new install?
[09:53] <mart> _bbeck: new install of mysql server.  I've tried purging it, then reinstalling it too.
[09:54] <mart> _bbeck: just rebooted to try without /tmp mounted on tmpfs
[09:54] <mart> _bbeck: ok, it starts now... but it still gives the warning about not being able to read my.cnf
[09:54] <mart> _bbeck: I wonder why that's missing.
[09:56] <litb> ok, cu
[10:00] <mart> _bbeck: ok, works now, with /tmp on disk, and it seems there's no my.cnf by default
[10:03] <ingrato_> hi
[10:03] <ingrato_> I'm trying to install libxine-codecs, but I can't find it in adept manager
[10:04] <ingrato_> what url do i have to add?
[10:04] <ingrato_> or should I say repository
[10:05] <ingrato_> so I can get mp3 playback support in amarok
[10:05] <ajross_> !mp3
[10:05] <ubotu> hmm... mp3 is a non-free format. To enable mp3 capability, read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[10:06] <ingrato_> I found this article http://amarok.kde.org/amarokwiki/index.php/MP3_on_Kubuntu_6.06
[10:06] <ingrato_> so that's why I'm trying to install libxine-codecs
[10:09] <ingrato_> got it!
[10:09] <gringo> !mp3
[10:09] <ubotu> rumour has it, mp3 is a non-free format. To enable mp3 capability, read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[10:12] <julian01> hellow
[10:13] <julian01> #
[10:13] <julian01> hello sophie
[10:13] <sophie_> julian01: hello
[10:14] <julian01> are you able to see dvd in ubantu?
[10:14] <hastesaver> julian01, if you mean that as a general question about whether dvd playback is possible, the answer is yes
[10:14] <hastesaver> !dvd
[10:14] <ubotu> DVD playing is possible in ubuntu. You may need libdvdcss2, which is available via http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages (section extras)
[10:14] <sophie_> julian01: yep put you have to install "unofficial" packages
[10:15] <julian01> thank you
[10:15] <sophie_> !xgl
[10:15] <ubotu> XGL on Ubuntu: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/XglHowto - Join #ubuntu-xgl for all the XGL fun on Ubuntu systems. It works ONLY on dapper. Pretty videos on http://www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/
[10:15] <julian01> Yes I ment to say play dvd
[10:23] <leo_> how can i configur fetchmail
[10:24] <BuffaloMan> gawd. fetchmail.  that brings back memories.
[10:26] <leo_> i cant  downlod mails
[10:31] <jack1> who knows which mobile phones work very good with kontact reg. synchronizaion?
[10:47] <_patrick> Still don't have Adept Package Manager working after it crashed a couple of days ago. Any ideas how to repair it, or get Synaptic.
[10:47] <_patrick> I tried apt-get update, but it wouldn't function.
[10:48] <_patrick> Then when I tried to get Synaptic from terminal my sources.list was messed up.
[10:48] <_patrick> I think that happened when I was working with it when it crashed. I was trying to fetch a repository and it just blew up on me. Go figure.
[10:52] <tchize> Hello everyone, i just downloaded latest dapper drake. Am wondering what this message in console means:
[10:52] <tchize> bcm43xx: Error: Microcode "bcm43xx_microcode5.fw" not available or load failed
[10:53] <tchize> and it seems to imply my wireless card is not recognized
[10:54] <GazzaK> wooo, thats me on kubuntu flight 7
[10:54] <tchize> GazzaK: great: mine does not install :)
[10:55] <GazzaK> oh, thats a shame - this was a bit of a pain, but not that had
[10:55] <I_Eat_Plastic> amaroK won't play any mpeg files, but xmms will. Any solutions?
[10:56] <tchize> GazzaK: it seems it does not recognize my network card :'(
[10:56] <GazzaK> erm, tried the restrctedformats wiki?
[10:56] <GazzaK> my partner had great fun getting his wifi card working, we have only just got it working okay
[10:57] <gringo> !xgl
[10:57] <ubotu> XGL on Ubuntu: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/XglHowto - Join #ubuntu-xgl for all the XGL fun on Ubuntu systems. It works ONLY on dapper. Pretty videos on http://www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/
[11:00] <GazzaK> I_Eat_Plastic, tried using Kaffine, once you have run the restrictedformats wiki guide? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[11:02] <I_Eat_Plastic> GazzaK: I'll give it a try.
[11:02] <heinkel_111> which mailclients work best with kubuntu? k-mail?
[11:03] <heinkel_111> and is there any way i can import old mails from thunderbird?
[11:03] <GazzaK> Kontact works fine for me heinkel_111
[11:03] <r0xz> Is there a common method to install both (and keep update) the developversion of an app and the distro version?
[11:03] <GazzaK> erm, not sure about importing
[11:03] <heinkel_111> i am disappointed with my thunderbird :(
[11:03] <GazzaK> r0xz, not that I know of...
[11:03] <GazzaK> suppose there must be, but I don't know how
[11:04] <tchize> Anybody can tell me how to provide wpa/wpa2 key for wifi at kubuntu installer?
[11:04] <sulan> ACPI-related issue with Dapper Drake Flight 6-7 (and maybe earlier also): On my HP NC6000, the display brightness buttons don't work at all. The do, however, work just fine on Breezy Badger.
[11:04] <tchize> it asks for a wep key :/
[11:06] <thedowd> anyone here running compiz under KDE?
[11:08] <r0xz> thanks GazzaK, i was hoping "make" had an option for this.
[11:09] <r0xz> thedowd: not any more, you have problems?
[11:10] <r0xz> tchize: i don't know, sorry
[11:10] <I_Eat_Plastic> amaroK correctly plays mp3s, but it seems to "speed" though them silently, why is this?
[11:10] <thedowd> r0xz: yeah, the window decorations are gone
[11:11] <thedowd> r0xz: the title bars, etc
[11:11] <r0xz> tchize: you can probably enter this after the installation process
[11:11] <GazzaK> I_Eat_Plastic, thats a thingy answered by running through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats I belive
[11:12] <I_Eat_Plastic> GazzaK, I've already installed all of the codecs I need, XMMS plays mpeg's just fine. But amaroK is at a loss of something. :(
[11:13] <r0xz> thedowd: sounds like a kwin problem
[11:13] <ahmeni> I_Eat_Plastic: it's probably a lack of plugins for gsteamer
[11:13] <GazzaK> sorry, I don't know, but earlier I had a similar sounding issue, and runing though most of the ideas on the wiki solved it
[11:13] <r0xz> thedowd: there are some posts on the forum about it, i don't know the solution myself
[11:13] <GazzaK> is there a tool in kubuntu to change the control/border/icon sets?
[11:14] <I_Eat_Plastic> GazzaK thanks for the help though.
[11:14] <GazzaK> np I_Eat_Plastic
[11:14] <GazzaK> is it tasty :)
[11:14] <ahmeni> I_Eat_Plastic: did you sudo apt-get install  gstreamer0.8-mad?
[11:15] <I_Eat_Plastic> ahmeni: Yes, I've done everything the page told me to do, i'm trying to install more plugins now.
[11:16] <r0xz> Gazzak: kcontrol-> appearance and then you can alter color, icons, style or theme
[11:16] <gringo> where can I edit KDE Sessions?
[11:16] <r0xz> and decorations
[11:17] <r0xz> Gazzak: decoration is that you look for i guess
[11:22] <melissa_> hmmm
[11:25] <gringo> how do I restart X?
[11:26] <melissa_> how do I display a different nickname?
[11:26] <gringo> melissa_: /nick blablub
[11:27] <GazzaK> woo, thanks r0xz
[11:29] <thedowd> alright, new question... getting the composite manager to run without all the draw errors?
[11:37] <darkphantompoet> interesting.... no one seems to chat in here
[11:39] <h3sp4wn> darkphantompoet: what do you need to know ?
[11:39] <darkphantompoet> need to know?  nothing... just trying this out and seeing what it's like
[11:43] <GazzaK> how do I make weblinks in xchat use firefox as the default web browser?
[11:45] <sorush20> hi guys is there a more enhanced version of klipper I could use..
[11:45] <sorush20> I keep getting silly errors now..
[11:46] <jack1> how does the nokia 6310i works together with Kontact?
[11:46] <jack1> work
[11:50] <sorush20> what don't you take a look at google .. just type 6310i linux
[11:53] <jack1> sorush20 yes thx for your help   u r a bright light
[11:57] <samuli> gazzak, try settings - preferred applications.
[11:58] <samuli> gazzak, or wherever that was (not in in the kde now to check out)
[11:58] <awesometaylor> hello
[11:59] <litb> hi! is there a disk management tool in kubuntu?
[11:59] <awesometaylor> how can i remove items from the menus?
[11:59] <GazzaK> I can't see anything "similar" to "preferred applications"
[11:59] <r0xz> sorush20: like have the another klipboard memory than the latest copy action? I have that too, really anoying yes...
[11:59] <litb> for managing fstab and so on?
[11:59] <awesometaylor> litb: i know of a program named kwikdisk
[12:00] <sorush20> r0xz: I don't know what you just said.. could you repeat?
[12:00] <sorush20> I can't make it out?


[09:33] <immu> hi
[09:44] <immu> i wanted to ask is it ok to install gnome along with unity? from a upgrade point of view
[13:39] <rfleming> Greetings!
[13:44] <immu> greetings
[13:57] <rfleming> How goes it?
[13:57] <rfleming> ... and how do I get GNOME to turn off my displays at lock? :)
[14:24] <dsynapse> greetings
[14:59] <dsynapse> rfleming:  I dont' have gnome up right now (at work) but I want to say that's in the screensaver settings?
[14:59] <dsynapse> or power saving settings
[17:04] <rfleming> Greetings!
[17:05] <rfleming> Is the nautilus that ships with Ubuntu-GNOME 17.04 different from the one in Debian Stretch?
[17:05] <rfleming> What I mean is in terms of hard-coded configuration, not version
[17:06] <rfleming> most specifically with regards to context menus
[17:09] <jbicha> yes, Ubuntu's Nautilus is different but could you be more specific?
[17:10] <rfleming> Yeah.  Under Ubuntu, pressing the 3-dot context menu brings up... you know what?  Let me make some screen captures
[17:11] <jbicha> Ubuntu does not customize that menu
[17:14] <rfleming> http://imgur.com/a/wEP35
[17:15] <rfleming> On Debian, the view mode just toggles the view from list to icon.
[17:15] <jbicha> that's because stretch has a newer version of nautilus than 17.04
[17:16] <rfleming> Aaaah
[17:16] <rfleming> I completely forgot to look at that
[17:16] <jbicha> 17.10 will get the newer version
[17:17] <rfleming> how 'usable' are the daily builds? :)
[17:18] <jbicha> how good are you at fixing your Ubuntu when it breaks? have you run Ubuntu betas before?
[17:18] <rfleming> yeah
[17:18] <rfleming> just not with GNOME...
[17:18] <rfleming> I'm an XFCE convert
[17:18] <rfleming> I got used to the Windows 10 workflow at work, and XFCE was found wanting
[17:19] <jbicha> of course, this will be a more disruptive development cycle than normal but if you don't mind fixing your computer and reinstalling if things break, then you're welcome to try it out
[17:19] <rfleming> I'll think about it.  Maybe run in a VM
[17:20] <jbicha> I recommend you make sure that you do not have proposed updates enabled
[17:20] <jbicha> if you want to run the development version of Ubuntu
[17:20] <rfleming> good thinking 99
[17:20] <jbicha> personally, I am still on 17.04 and have 17.10 in a VM so that I can verify 17.04 Stable Release Updates easier
[17:21] <jbicha> but several people do run the development versions continuously as a sort of rolling release
[17:21] <rfleming> I'm still teeter-tottering between Debian and Ubuntu :)
[17:21] <rfleming> at least I have GNOME worked out
[17:22] <jbicha> a lot of the GNOME packaging is shared between Debian and Ubuntu
[17:22] <rfleming> So how is the change from Ubuntu-GNOME to just Ubuntu going to work?
[17:22] <rfleming> I know you guys pride yourselves on a 'pure' experience.  What's the main group going to do for customisations?
[17:23] <jbicha> basically Ubuntu will get gnome-shell and drop Unity in the next month or two
[17:23] <jbicha> decisions about specific apps, customizations, theming haven't really been made yet
[17:24] <rfleming> hopefully consideration will be made this time about what people want in their DE and not force something unchangeable down the throats
[17:25]  * rfleming isn't interested in having specialized versions of software that deviate from developer design plans
[17:25] <jbicha> I don't think anything is being forced anywhere
[17:25] <jbicha> people don't all want the same thing
[17:25] <rfleming> I understand completely :)
[17:27] <jbicha> I mean Unity is not being actively developed now so it's a problem for those who really liked Unity but there are more choices now than there were in the GNOME 2 days
[17:28] <rfleming> I liked Budgie, it was modern, but simple.  Will be interesting to see where they go moving to QT libs
[17:28] <rfleming> it is modern
[17:28] <rfleming> used was because I stopped using it. :)
[17:29] <rfleming> I'm just settling into GNOME and working out little niggles here and there.
[21:39] <rfleming> is anyone having issues with GNOME and NVidia drivers where the displays aren't going to sleep on lock?  With the nouveau driver they turn off...


[00:00]  * jdong quietly blames upstart/udev and reboots
[00:26] <jdong> it IS kinda cool when btrfs can tear down a pbuilder as fast as reiserfs did
[00:37] <geser> pbuilder on tmpfs :)
[00:42] <jdong> haha that's what I used to do
[00:42] <jdong> the downfall was what to do about the aptcache ;-)
[00:44] <jdong> and then there's those obscene builds like openoffice :)
[00:44] <jdong> not saying btrfs handles that any better
[00:48] <jdong> HOLY CRAP thunderbird final linking balloons a lot of RAM!
[01:12] <TheMuso> bdrung: I will have a look at eclipse on powerpc. I use sbuild, so I can replicate an eenvironment where arch all packages don't get built.
[01:13] <TheMuso> I can also look on amd64/i386
[06:29] <trip0> what's the procedure for submitting a patch to a package?
[06:29] <trip0> launchpad?\
[07:07] <tonyyarusso> Can anyone tell me the name of the site that a lot of FLOSS devs use for collecting donations?  I'm totally blanking on the one I'm thinking of...
[07:14] <fabrice_sp> trip0, yes: open a bug report, attach the debdiff, and subscribe Ubuntu Sponsors for Universe
[07:15] <trip0> kk
[07:16] <trip0> tonyyarusso: paypal?
[07:16] <tonyyarusso> trip0: I was thinking of something that would show progress towards a goal.  I'm hoping I'll recognize the name if someone comes up with it, but it's not just the payment service itself.  (ie you could use paypal to make a donation on foo)
[07:58] <fale> hi
[08:11] <fabrice_sp> hi fale
[08:11] <fale> I tried to bring libboost from debian to a ppa... but it fails with this error: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33809173/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.boost1.40_1.40.0-2ubuntu0_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz any idea?
[09:37] <geser> fale: one problem is, that it tries to build with python2.4 (karmic has python2.6 as default)
[09:50] <fale> geser: I have to force the installation of python 2.5 and the compile of it?
[09:52] <geser> fale: it already installs python2.5 and python2.6 via build-depends but somewhere force it to use python2.4
[09:52] <geser> "Detecting Python version... 2.6
[09:53] <geser> but later -I"/usr/include/python2.4"
[09:54] <geser> perhaps the 'echo "using python : 2.4 : /usr ;" >> user-config.jam' causes it
[09:57] <geser> fale: you might want to look at the patch to boost1.38 to see what's needs to be changed to build with the current python versions in ubuntu (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26972978/boost1.38_1.38.0-6_1.38.0-6ubuntu1.diff.gz)
[09:58] <fale> geser: I see.. than I'll try to make it using 2.5
[10:26] <fale> geser: I'm creating the package... soon I'll upload it.. and wait to see if I fixed it :)
[10:27] <geser> fale: if you use pbuilder you can test it yourself if you don't want to wait on the PPA builders and only upload it when you're done
[10:29] <fale> geser: :) I'll install pbuilder, than :)
[10:34] <jetienne> q. what is the correct directoryh to put a python executable ?
[10:45] <geser> like any other executable, /usr/bin
[10:49]  * fale is compiling... hoping the best
[10:50] <fale> geser: If it does compile correctly, I could try to push boost 1.40 in lynx?
[10:57] <jetienne> geser: nothing special because it is noarch ?
[10:58] <fale> jetienne: nope
[10:58] <jetienne> ok thanks
[11:00] <fale> again http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33823851/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.boost1.40_1.40.0-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz :(
[11:01] <geser> fale: it took me some time to realise that with lynx you not meant the text webbrowser but the next ubuntu release (lucid) :)
[11:02] <fale> geser: ops, I call (wrongly) lynx... I'll try to change behave ;)
[11:02] <geser> fale: as boost1.40 is Debian unstable it will get auto-synced once lucide opens but will need the fix you're working now on
[11:03] <fale> geser: oki ;)
[11:03] <fale> geser: I rebuilted it... but it seems that there are problems with enums :(
[11:04] <fale> geser: I think is an error in some config, because debian is able to compile it ( http://packages.debian.org/sid/libboost1.40-dev )
[11:07] <geser> fale: don't forget that debian still builds with gcc 4.3 as default while ubuntu uses already gcc 4.4 as default
[11:08] <fale> geser: that can be a huge problem...
[11:09] <fale> geser: an OT question: because ubuntu and debian are very similar and bring packages back and forth... woudn't be easyer to have a unique repo?
[11:10] <geser> I'm not saying that this might be the problem but as there are differences in the toolchain between debian and ubuntu, a package which builds in debian might fail in Ubuntu for different reasons
[11:11] <geser> fale: not really possible, as e.g. Debian and Ubuntu have different speed of development (e.g. Debian releases once in around 2 years, while Ubuntu once every 6 months)
[11:12] <fale> I see
[11:13] <geser> and trying to coordinate which version went when into to common repo would be pretty hard
[11:15] <fale> I see
[11:16] <geser> Debian uses gcc 4.3, Ubuntu gcc 4.4; Debian uses eglibc 2.9, Ubuntu already eglibc 2.10; Debian catched now up to Gnome 2.28 like in Ubuntu, and so on
[11:17] <fale> geser: well, I don't think that debian is behind because they want it, but more because they don't have enough human-power to do everything
[11:21] <jetienne> q. what is the control files's Architecture for python code ? i tried any and all
[11:21] <joaopinto> jetienne, it should be "all" if it's entirely python
[11:21] <jetienne> ok thx
[11:23] <joaopinto> there are some efforts in progress to synchronize the toolchaing between Debian and UBuntu
[11:53] <jetienne> q. is there a way to make dh_make not to ask interactive questions ? especially the "are you sure" ones
[11:57] <joaopinto> jetienne, man dh_make
[11:57] <jetienne> joaopinto: you mean yes or no ?
[11:58] <joaopinto> jetienne, I mean it's on the manual, we can help you but we are not a replacement for the man
[11:58] <jetienne> ok :)
[11:59] <jetienne> joaopinto: well if you dont wanna help this is ok
[11:59] <jetienne> joaopinto: and yes/no wont kill you
[11:59] <jetienne> and dont assume i didnt read it
[11:59] <jetienne> no hard feeling
[11:59] <joaopinto> jetienne, If I didn't want to help I would not have answer you, which I did with a pointer to the answer
[12:00] <joaopinto> :)
[12:00] <jetienne> well i will wait and ask again
[12:00] <jetienne> as i read the "pointer" you refer to
[12:01] <jetienne> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} <- where can i find the definition of those macro ?
[12:04] <joaopinto> jetienne, man deb-substvars
[12:05] <jetienne> joaopinto: well if you dont have anything to say except rtfm, please ignore me
[12:08] <joaopinto> hum, misc:Depends is not described on the manpage, it's used by debhelper, not sure for which purposes
[12:08] <jetienne> the first part is not defined either
[12:09] <joaopinto> yes it is
[12:09] <joaopinto>        shlibs:dependencyfield
[12:09] <joaopinto>               Variable settings with names of this form are generated by dpkg-shlibdeps.
[12:09] <jetienne> :)
[12:09] <joaopinto> it is set to the list of shared libraries identified by dh_shlibdeps
[12:09] <jetienne> this is not a description this is a single line saying nothing :)
[12:10] <jetienne> like what it is doing ?
[12:10] <joaopinto> jetienne, at the bottom of the man page there is a section with other relevant pages, I guess you want to understand what is dpkg-shlibsdeps is about
[12:10] <joaopinto> man dpkg-shlibdeps
[12:11] <jetienne> nah
[12:11] <jetienne> i want to make a deb and find help to do so :)
[12:11] <jetienne> i do understand you are a rftm person
[12:12] <joaopinto> jetienne, to summarize, the shlibs varialble will be replaced with the package names that provide the share libaries used by binaries on your package
[12:12] <jetienne> this is ok please ignore me, please
[12:12] <jetienne> lets be civil
[12:13] <joaopinto> jetienne, if you want to create a .deb without learning manuals, you are on the wrong place
[12:13] <jetienne> joaopinto: well many people here are ok to help
[12:13] <joaopinto> the only people feeling offended is you, I am just answering to your questions, and you don't like the help :)
[12:13] <jetienne> joaopinto: well ok. please ignore me
[12:13] <joaopinto> just ignore the answers if you don't like them, other people on the channel may like :)
[12:13] <jetienne> i dont want to fight :)
[12:14] <joaopinto> jetienne, I don't like to ignore people, again, you are the one offended, feel free to ignore me :)
[12:14] <jetienne> im not offended, just not willing to fight with somebody who think rftm is more important than coc
[12:15] <jetienne> this is ok
[12:15] <joaopinto> I am not simply rftm, I am pointing the specicif manual pages you should read related to your questions :)
[12:15] <jetienne> joaopinto: yeah right. credible
[12:15] <jetienne> you are right
[12:15] <jetienne> now please ignore me, you are discouraging other people to help
[12:17] <joaopinto> jetienne, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete - it also describes the purpose of those variables you have asked about
[12:17] <jetienne> PLEASE IGNORE ME
[12:17] <joaopinto> !caps | jetienne
[12:18] <jetienne> !coc | joaopinto
[12:18] <jetienne> see if you can read that
[12:18] <joaopinto> I have read and signed, tks :)
[12:21] <jetienne> well honor your word then
[12:22] <jetienne> ok will be back during the week
[13:45] <jetienne> q. how to update the debian/changelog automatically ?
[13:46] <joaopinto> jetienne, use the dch utility
[13:46] <joaopinto> jetienne, dch -i or dch -a
[13:46] <joaopinto> jetienne, man dch for more details
[13:47] <jetienne> joaopinto: ok sorry i will have to ignore you as you keep intervinning.
[13:47] <jetienne> no hard feeling just trying to be productive
[13:49] <joaopinto> man, you must have serious problems, you get the answers and still complaining about it :)
[13:49] <directhex> yeah, wtf?
[14:07] <iulian> Oh well, he obviously doesn't like reading manual pages.
[14:08] <jetienne> arf
[14:09] <jetienne> debchange -i doesnt work if it is a native package. as opposed to what the man page say
[14:13] <iulian> Eh?
[14:13] <iulian> Are you sure you're reading the right man page?
[14:14] <iulian> "Increment either the final component of the Debian release  number or, if this is a native Debian package, the version number."
[14:14] <jetienne> yep and this add ubuntu2
[14:35] <geser> jetienne: what was the original version, what did you get and what did you expect to get as version?
[14:36] <jetienne> geser: the original version ? not sure to undersand this is a code of mine im packaging. i used dh_make --single --email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>--native to generate it
[14:37] <jetienne> --increment added ubuntu suffix even i used --native, as opposed to the man page
[14:37] <jetienne> but honnestly i would not have complain without the rftm episode i experienced
[14:37] <geser> why did you use --native? it's mostly for software written only for Debian/Ubuntu
[14:38] <jetienne> geser: because this is only for ubuntu
[14:38] <geser> jetienne: the package or the software?
[14:38] <jetienne> both
[14:39] <geser> dch applies by default the ubuntu versioning scheme on Ubuntu
[14:39] <jetienne> geser: this is ok, writing my own script to update changelog fix it
[14:39] <jetienne> geser: not according to the manual :)
[14:41] <geser> true, it does it always as it hard to difference between modifying Debian packages and Ubuntu-only packages
[14:41] <geser> but even then it's a good idea to use the ubuntu postfix if it's not clear from the package name that the package is Ubuntu-only
[14:42] <jetienne> noted
[14:42] <geser> just curious: what kind of application is it, that it will only be useful to Ubuntu and not Debian too?
[14:43] <jetienne> is there a tool parsing "debian/changelog" able to give the current version
[14:43] <jetienne> geser: we do not plan to support debian by lack of time to support/test it
[14:49] <joaopinto> jetienne, but some on Debian may decide to adopt your package, and if you make it native your are just making their life harder
[14:49] <joaopinto> someone
[15:03] <ys___> hi, I need some help with the ppa building system, can somebody help me?
[15:04] <ys___> I'm trying to build a package but it's current build status is "Dependency wait"
[15:04] <ys___> what should i do now?
[15:10] <jetienne> ys___: wild guessing. maybe you depend on a .deb which is not available, and the build assume it will, and so wait for it
[15:11] <ys___> the build assume it will? when?
[15:11] <jetienne> ys___: no idea. i was wild guessing
[15:11] <ys___> oh, thanks
[15:11] <jetienne> debchange -b --changelog changelog --newversion "0.01build`date +%Y%m%d%k%M%S`" "Automatic packaging" <- im focusing on this kind of thing :)
[15:14] <ys___> i don't understand that
[15:14] <randomaction> ys___: you should probably look at the build log and see which build-dependency is missing. probably you mistyped the package name, or try to depend on a package not available in Ubuntu
[15:15] <ys___> Missing build dependencies: libgconf2.24-cil
[15:15] <ys___> oh, that's truth
[15:18] <ys___> thank you, i'm retrying :)
[15:49] <dtchen> zul: WRT whois: you probably need to update config.h's VERSION macro, too
[15:59] <dtchen> zul: http://pastebin.com/dc948ea6
[17:29] <LLStarks> hi. wicd needs a package update and there's also the problem that the dbus daemon it relies on won't load.
[17:29] <LLStarks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wicd/+bug/454067
[19:47] <LordMetroid> Master of the Universe please take a look at the CouchDB package installation dependencies, they are broken and couchdb can not be installed properly nor launched due to this
[20:00] <dtchen> jdong: you have a macbook 5,1 , correct?
[20:00] <dtchen> (or rather, anyone with a macbook 5,1 running os x)
[20:02] <jdong> dtchen: macbookpro 5,2
[20:04] <dtchen> jdong: does jack sense work in current Karmic?
[20:04] <dtchen> i'm having a heckuvatime finding the drivers for Darwin
[20:05] <dtchen> not even sure they're exposed, but i'm looking for the init verbs for 5,1 and 5,2
[20:08] <jdong> dtchen: no, jack sense doesn't, I have a LP bug open regarding that...
[20:08] <dtchen> jdong: i'll need some info from the mac os x side
[20:08] <jdong> dtchen: but yeah I have the system booted into OS X right now if you need me to grab anything from it
[20:09] <dtchen> jdong: since i'm unfamiliar w/ os x, i don't know offhand if the init verbs are exposed anywhere
[20:09] <jdong> ok lemme poke around a bit
[20:10] <dtchen> jdong: if we can find those, we can pretty easily patch it in using the new patch infrastructure for HDA
[20:10] <dtchen> i.e., we write a text file and put it in /lib/firmware/$(uname -r)/foo, and you pass the filename to snd-hda-intel patch=foo
[20:11] <dtchen> anyhow, let me know if you find anything; i'm offline until tomorrow afternoon. i need a break from this sound mess.
[20:15] <jdong> dtchen: sounds good (haha sorry for that awful pun); you'll hear from me if I find anything that looks useful
[20:19] <jdong> dtchen: the only thing that looks remotely "useful" is http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/AppleHDAPlatformDriver.kext_Info.plist within the driver...
[20:19] <jdong> dtchen: seems like some sort of mapping, though I don't have the knowledge to make heads or tails out of it
[20:20] <jdong> one of the most eye opening XML files I've seen in a while too....
[20:22] <jdong> dtchen: might be old news to you, but various internet noise like http://bbs.pcbeta.com/redirect.php?tid=349924&goto=newpost seems to have insight on what the big-blobs-of-BASE64 mean.
[20:41] <quidnunc> Is checkinstall safe if the installer is untrusted?
[20:41] <quidnunc> In other words, will checkinstall provide a reasonable degree of protection by installing in a chroot?
[20:41] <jdong> is it even safe if the installer is trusted?
[20:42] <joaopinto> quidnunc, is just as safe as the install
[20:42] <jdong> but the answer is no
[20:42] <superm1> jdong, the old problems that plagued it have been fixed AFAIK
[20:42] <jdong> checkinstall I believe uses LD_PRELOAD to trap attempts to install stuff, to divert them to a deb package
[20:42] <quidnunc> joaopinto: I thought it used a chroot so it wouldn't actually touch my filesystem
[20:42] <superm1> (security wise)
[20:42] <superm1> it still won't produce policy compliant packages of course
[20:42] <jdong> superm1: oh, I was unaware of that...
[20:43] <joaopinto> quidnunc, the install is regular, it just tracks the installed files and builds a .deb from it
[20:43] <jdong> but even a chroot is inappropriate for UNTRUSTED installers.
[20:43] <jdong> root can still circumvent chroots :)
[20:44] <joaopinto> a root process running from a chroot can break it ?
[20:44] <quidnunc> I basically want to see what the installer is going to try to do and manually grant it permissions but I also want to use checkinstall so I can easily uninstall it afterwards
[20:44] <jdong> joaopinto: absolutely
[20:44] <joaopinto> quidnunc, make -n install
[20:44] <jdong> joaopinto: in fact the truly concerned sysadmin doesn't even want to run non-root users unconfined in a chroot...
[20:44] <quidnunc> joaopinto: It is a binary installer
[20:44] <joaopinto> quidnunc, run it from a chroot :)
[20:45] <jdong> quidnunc: you can log what the installer does by putting an apparmor null complain profile around it :)
[20:45] <jdong> then your audit logs will spew over everything the installer is doing.
[20:46] <quidnunc> jdong: Yes I thought of that but it will actually do those things. I don't want it to do those things because I want to use checkinstall to make sure I can uninstall it.
[20:46] <quidnunc> joaopinto: Isn't that what checkinstall does?
[20:47] <jdong> checkinstall will do it for cooperating installers.
[20:47] <jdong> if you're concerned about a *malicious* installer, then no.
[20:47] <quidnunc> I guess I would want some kind of combination of checkinstall and apparmor
[20:47] <jdong> that's a much more challenging situation
[20:47] <joaopinto> quidnunc, no, checkinstall does not install over a chroot
[20:47] <jdong> you can use checkinstall in a chroot with apparmor protection :)
[20:47] <jdong> though that's a pain to set up ;-)
[20:49] <quidnunc> joaopinto: But it doesn't actually install right?
[20:51] <quidnunc> checkinstall says it has fstrans
[20:51] <quidnunc> An --fstrans options "causes the install to proceed in a temporary directory, thus not actually touching your system"
[20:52] <joaopinto> it does install, i mean, with the default options, i am not familiar with thtat option
[23:14] <mrooney> YokoZar: what do we do about bugs like http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20288 where the user can't file it in Ubuntu because it's the PPA version but upstream says it is our problem?
[23:16] <ScottK> mrooney: If it's in a PPA, it's not "our" in the sense of MOTU's problem.
[23:16] <mrooney> I meant "our" in the larger Ubuntu sense :)
[23:20] <ScottK> I think PPA problems are the problems of the PPA owner
[23:46] <jdong> mrooney: hopefully the PPA owner has set up a launchpad product or some other way to track bugs then
[23:46] <jdong> I know the Mozilla team and some Kubuntu PPA documents suggest filing Ubuntu bugs on their PPA packages, and heck even that practice seems somewhat controversial around here
[23:56] <ScottK> The difference in those cases is that the same people maintain the packages and they are generally used as prestaging for stuff going into the archive.
[23:58] <jdong> right, forgot to mention that :)