[00:00] <beuno> JamesJRH, no, Launchpad uses Ubuntu One as it's OpenID provider
[00:00] <beuno> it used to mask that behind its own branding
[00:00] <beuno> but it doesn't anymore
[00:03] <JamesJRH> beuno: I thought Launchpad predated Ubuntu One by quite a bit. I first used Launchpad in 2008, and it was around before that.
[00:03] <beuno> JamesJRH, indeed it did. But the OpenID parts were split out years ago
[00:03] <beuno> into its own service
[00:03] <beuno> it was called Ubuntu Single Sign On first
[00:03] <beuno> then just Ubuntu One
[00:06] <JamesJRH> 2004, same year that Ubuntu began: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
[00:06] <JamesJRH> Oh. I thought Ubuntu SSO was a rebranding of the Launchpad OpenID.
[00:06] <JamesJRH> ?
[00:06] <beuno> not sure how that's different, but sure
[00:07] <beuno> it was split out
[00:07] <beuno> and re-branded
[00:07] <beuno> so that's where it is today
[00:12] <JamesJRH> I never quite understood. When I log in to an external website, I see Launchpad as always. When I log into an Ubuntu service I sometimes see Ubuntu SSO, sometimes Ubuntu One, and occassionally Launchpad.
[00:13] <JamesJRH> I much prefer Launchpad, I don't know why it all had to be messed-up.
[00:30] <JamesJRH> To be fair, Launchpad as a whole has very notably avoided being messed up, and this pleases me.
[00:39] <xnox> JamesJRH: originally launchpad had the OpenID, later U1 was introduced and then SSO got split into separate identity provider that the two share. However U1 wanted strong branding hence it was presented with U1 interface, instead of a generic SSO, or launchpad.
[00:39] <xnox> JamesJRH: there were other branding excercises and reorganisations in process.
[00:40] <xnox> JamesJRH: i think SSO (external sites) and Launchpad (launchpad id's / authentications) are to stay for now with U1 phased out.
[00:40] <xnox> JamesJRH: http://www.notboring.com/jokes/work/3.htm
[00:42] <JamesJRH> And all of that strong branding is now defunct. Shame.
[00:42] <JamesJRH> Hi..
[00:43] <JamesJRH> xnox: Is that Dmitrijs?
[00:45] <xnox> JamesJRH: that's my old name, yes. My current name is Dimitri.
[00:45] <xnox> JamesJRH: https://people.debian.org/~xnox/changeofname/Change%20of%20Name%20Declaration.pdf
[00:50] <JamesJRH> Oh.
[00:50] <JamesJRH> xnox: All this rebranding business.. :-P
[00:53] <xnox> in my case it was a revert of a historical mistake
[00:55] <JamesJRH> Okay, I was about to say that I find it sad that you westernised your name, but not sure what the mistake was about.
[01:07] <JamesJRH> xnox: I've never seen the ‘L̦’ before. That's ‘L’ with U+0326 COMBINING COMMA BELOW. Is that right?
[01:08] <JamesJRH> s/Is that right?/Was that right?/
[01:09] <xnox> haha.
[01:10] <JamesJRH> What?
[01:15] <JamesJRH> xnox: Or ‘Ļ’ (U+013B LATIN CAPITAL LETTER L WITH CEDILLA).
[01:28] <JamesJRH> xnox? What did you find funny, or was it a different sort of haha? (I can think of a few ways of saying that, something I find annoying about text chat.)
[01:37] <JamesJRH> xnox: I went to the Netherlands for my first time last year, I now can't help noticing that ‘rijs’ looks very Dutch, and also ‘j’ is pronounced like English ‘y’ there (as in many languages and IPA). By any chance was there a Dutch influence to your original first name.
[01:40] <JamesJRH> Not sure what you mean by ‘historical mistake’ because isn't that where all spelling variations and language dialects came from?
[01:51] <JamesJRH> Well, I always try to spell and pronounce people's names as locally accurate as I can, as well as place names and other foreign words, out of respect for people and their cultures. So I'll have to be sure to remember this name change. So anyway...
[01:53] <JamesJRH> xnox: Hello again, Dimitri John Ledkov! :-)
[02:00] <JamesJRH> And of course good night seeing as I 'spect you've long since gone to bed. :-]
[02:01] <JamesJRH> xnox: Btw., I liked your 3 envelopes joke.
[08:11] <JamesJRH> How do I download and restore metadata?
[09:04] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Uncommon Instrument Awareness Day!  :-D
[12:36] <dobey> huh
[14:41] <JamesJRH> How do I download and restore metadata?
[14:44] <JamesJRH> Can someone from Canonical please send me my metadata before they delete it?
[14:47] <dobey> metadata?
[14:48] <dobey> you mean your files, or something else?
[14:49] <JamesJRH> dobey: Timestamps, modes, ownership, etc..
[14:49] <JamesJRH> Tbh., the download tool is shit.
[14:50] <JamesJRH> And the Ubuntu One application doesn't seem to let me download anymore.
[14:51] <JamesJRH> I have all of the files now, but I can't sort by date modified (usefully).
[14:54] <dobey> filesystem attributes are not stored in u1
[14:54] <JamesJRH> According to the download tool, all hashes are correct. But I had to redownload the whole of my ~/Documents/ directory and a couple of others just in order to download a couple of directories that contained photos from my Android phones.
[14:56] <JamesJRH> dobey: Well that sucks. At least some dates are visible in the Web interface, I assume that's date modified.
[14:57] <dobey> that's the date it was last uploaded to the server
[14:57] <JamesJRH> Having those dates at least would allow decent chronological sorting.
[14:58] <JamesJRH> I wish I'd never even used Ubuntu One.
[14:58] <dobey> if the u1-downloader tool is not setting the dates, then there is no way to grab them from the server, sorry
[14:58] <dobey> you don't need to be rude
[14:58] <JamesJRH> I have completely lost trust in Canonical.
[15:02] <JamesJRH> dobey: Rude? No seriously. I'm never going to use cloud services again, and I'm going to try to move as much as I can away from Google as well. I.e. I'll eventually self-host my emails and contact-synch, and change my email address.
[15:04] <dobey> that's fine
[15:05] <dobey> but yes, calling something "shit" and saying "i wish i'd never used it" is a bit rude
[15:07] <JamesJRH> dobey: It is though. Its poor design was probably a major factor to its downfall. No denying that it was riddled with flaws.
[15:09] <JamesJRH> dobey: Also, Canonical have hyped and dropped so many things. I'm tired of their superficial hype. I've felt that way since 2011 with the release of Oneiric.
[15:09] <JamesJRH> Anyway..
[15:10] <dobey> like i said. rude.
[15:12] <JamesJRH> Anyway, I don't know how Ubuntu One stores things, but if it's just in a normal *nix filesystem, it should be simply a couple of commands to collect all of the timestamps from my files.
[15:36] <JamesJRH> dobey: I apologise for saying ‘shit’. Sorry. Apart from this word, which I should have instead said something like ‘of atrociously rushed quality’, I don't think that I've been rude. Everything I've said is totally honest. “I wish I'd never even used Ubuntu One.” is true and not rude.
[15:37] <JamesJRH> Also sorry for “Well that sucks.”.
[15:39] <JamesJRH> ‘Well that is very disappointing.’*
[16:06] <JamesJRH> Any Canonical staff here?
[16:08] <JamesJRH> Assuming Ubuntu One Files uses a standard *nix filesystem, please could someone with Ubuntu One Files admin access run these commands from my directory and send me the output dumps:
[16:09] <JamesJRH> find ./ -print0 > names
[16:09] <xnox> JamesJRH: it doesn't use *nix filesystem, it uses cloud storage buckets / object store.
[16:09] <JamesJRH> find ./ -exec stat {} + > attributes
[16:10] <JamesJRH> find ./ -exec sha256sum {} + > hashes
[16:10] <JamesJRH> Oh.
[16:10] <xnox> JamesJRH: no, nobody can run any commands for you like that. Canonical staff does not have access to your data =) that would privacy policy violations.
[16:10] <JamesJRH> Okay.
[16:10] <xnox> JamesJRH: also sync access has been disabled. You should download your content using https://one.ubuntu.com/shutdown/ otherwise it will be deleted today.....
[16:12] <JamesJRH> xnox: I have the files content and directory structure, using the shutdown u1_downloader tool, but I realised earlier that timestamps are broken.
[16:13] <JamesJRH> All hashes reported okay, but having no true timestamps is a bit of a problem for organisation.
[16:19] <JamesJRH> There's a directory from an old Android device (which won't turn on anymore) which I don't seem to have another copy of, other than the u1_downloaded copy with useless timestamps.
[16:23] <JamesJRH> xnox: I guess I'll have to manually traverse the Ubuntu One Files Webif, taking archives of each directory page of necessary directories, and then somehow use this to restore a level of usefulness in the timestamps.
[16:24] <JamesJRH> xnox: What do the timestamps represent? Local date modified? Or upload date i.e. server date modified?
[16:25] <JamesJRH> Aah...
[16:26] <xnox> JamesJRH: i downloaded tarball, and it clearly does have last modification timestamp in it.... http://ubuntuone.com/u1-downloader/u1-downloader.tar.gz
[16:26] <xnox>  --atime-preserve
[16:26] <xnox> is the option you probably want when extracting it....
[16:27] <JamesJRH> Um.
[16:27] <xnox> JamesJRH: or like open the tarball with file-roller / xdg-open *.tar.gz
[16:27] <JamesJRH> I didn't think the excutable took any options; it didn't respond to --help.
[16:32] <JamesJRH> xnox: ‘--atime-preserve’ is an option to tar. I'm not such what you're suggesting to do. The last modification timestamp of the u1_downloader binary isn't necessary.
[16:34] <xnox> JamesJRH: .... http://ubuntuone.com/u1-downloader/u1-downloader.tar.gz
[16:34] <xnox> JamesJRH: right.
[16:34] <xnox> JamesJRH: oh, that's the wrong thing, not actual data.
[16:34] <xnox> horum.
[16:34] <JamesJRH> Or are you saying it's also an option to the u1_downloader binary? Should I try?: ./u1_downloader --atime-preserve
[16:34] <JamesJRH> Okay.
[16:35] <xnox> JamesJRH: nah, file syncing is off, and even that never preserved modification times on new syncs.
[16:35] <xnox> JamesJRH: if you are an active user, you should have had an uptodate synced machine with all modification timestamps.
[16:35] <xnox> JamesJRH: if you don't, then that's it.
[16:35] <xnox> JamesJRH: honestly, timestamps shouldn't matter as much as you think they do.
[16:35] <JamesJRH> New synchs?
[16:35] <JamesJRH> Did it change?
[16:35] <xnox> no, it never change...
[16:36] <xnox> bye James.
[16:36] <JamesJRH> xnox: I have all but a couple of directories. They must have been accidentally unchecked.
[16:36] <JamesJRH> Oh, bye. :-)
[16:38] <JamesJRH> xnox: “and even that never preserved modification times on new syncs.” – Do you mean if a file was updated in place?
[17:03] <JamesJRH> I don't like this, the Webif only has day precision. Well at least it's better than nothing, but I'm sure the full timestamps are somewhere.


[00:00] <slicktux> I apologize I am just noticing a lot of things, like the afromentioned, and it is propagating curiosity. . .
[00:01] <slicktux> XD
[00:01] <genii> Curiosity is good.
[00:02] <slicktux> agreed.
[00:03] <genii> slicktux: The other issue with su - is that for this to work requires giving root a password. So it introduces a way for someone to try and bruteforce a known admin accountname, instead of randomusername
[00:05] <slicktux> genii: Sensical, I'm going to have to read about sudo then; I want to know how the internals work before I install it again.
[00:05]  * slicktux likes to know what is going on the background.
[00:05]  * slicktux "dig deep; stay deep" --slicktux
[00:09] <genii> slicktux: There's generally someone around in the channel to answer questions, I'm usually here weekdays from work, I'm leaving shortly for today.
[00:10] <slicktux> genii: Well, thank you genii you've been helpful!
[00:10] <genii> Glad to assist
[00:11] <slicktux> cheers!
[04:07] <AciD`> hi
[04:08] <AciD`> since a few days, when I lock my screen, go away then come back, the screen do not get a signal back and stays black
[04:09] <AciD`> how can I fix that?
[04:10] <AciD`> tl;dr : how to tell kde that it should wake the f* up?
[04:16] <cbip> hi, geek
[04:21] <cbip> I installed kubuntu 16.04. in the BIOS I set the UTC time, in KDE I have installed my correct time zone (+7 UTC). in the console, the date command shows me the correct time. and the clock widget on the panel in KDE displays the time in 14 hours less than I have now.
[04:22] <cbip> how do I fix this?
[04:26] <AciD`> cbip > you can force the timezone in the settings of such widgets
[04:28] <cbip> I put up my right zone (Asia / Tomsk)
[06:30] <vboxler> test
[06:56] <AciD`> since a few days, when I lock my screen, go away then come back, the screen do not get a signal back and stays black, how can I fix that?
[06:56] <AciD`> tl;dr : how to tell kde that it should wake the f* up? :|
 @slicktux -- the included applications.
 we do KDE applications for the most part
[08:08] <john_s> when I installed Cinnamon it changed the baviour of "startx". After purging all of Cinnamon's files, startx now defaults to nothing. How do I set it backto kde system wide?
[08:09] <hateball> dont use startx
[08:09] <john_s> I didn't ask that.
 @john_s how about sudo apt install kubuntu-desktop
 you might have to also install sddm and configure it; I don't remember
[08:14] <john_s> a bot really can't answer a question you know...
[08:15] <john_s> I don't know what package from KDE generates the x config.
[08:18] <john_s> why does it show random shit ....
 that sounds like a very bad install
[08:20] <john_s> I don't even know how to remove KDE and reinstall it because the meta package won't uninstall the components I think.
 btw I'm not a bot; merely using interfacing with IRC via Telegram from Qtcon/Akademy
 there is no "KDE" -- just the components
[08:21] <john_s> Oh...
[08:21] <john_s> sorry
 and it's true that even purging a meta-package will not get rid of all the components
[08:21] <john_s> I thought so in the beginning but I started doubting ;-).
 you might try sudo apt install -f where -f equals "fix"
[08:22] <john_s> if there is that kernel panic it cannot find the root fs
 re-install sounds best then
[08:22] <john_s> and
[08:22] <john_s> it may indicate trying to use the efi signed image on a non-efi system.
 imo I would verify the ISO first using md5
[08:22] <john_s> make sure you are not booting efi
 the bot won't work from here but you can get more info by typing !md5 here in the channel
[08:23] <john_s> In any case I don't know which KDE component (or Plasma) generates its x config.
[08:24] <john_s> sddm works fine otherwise I wouldn't be here :).
[08:24] <Unit193> !md5
[08:27] <john_s> @abel tanak I'm just saying you may need to fix or check your grub config from the grub menu to see if you can make it work.
[08:40] <cbip> installed kubuntu 16.04. in the BIOS I set the UTC time, in KDE I have installed my correct time zone (+7 UTC). in the console, the date command shows me the correct time. and the clock widget on the panel in KDE displays the time in 14 hours less than I have now.
[08:40] <cbip> how do I fix this? I put up my right zone (Asia / Tomsk)
[08:42] <Smurphy> You sure youre at +7 UTC ? What about -7 UTC ?
[08:51] <john_s> I reconfigured every package that had kde in the name that was relevant, and every package that had plasma in the name that could ever be relevant. I reconfigured sddm.
[08:51] <john_s> still nothing
[08:51] <john_s> i can use "startx /usr/bin/startkde" but then it won't load my user config.
[09:59] <atdprhs> Hi All
[10:00] <atdprhs> I'm having a trouble with setting up a /media/someshare to my router's shared usb drive
[10:00] <atdprhs> but it's working with me, anyone have good knowledge in folder sharings and mounting here?
[10:01] <atdprhs> (it's not working with me*)
[10:04] <atdprhs> I have visited almost 50 links because of this issue, but nothing seems to be working
[10:04] <atdprhs> I keep getting either: mount error: could not resolve address for readyshare: Unknown error or mount: unknown filesystem type 'smbfs'
[10:11] <Frans> Hi, I'm trying to install Kubuntu 16.04.01 under virtual box and somehow I cannot get beyond the "Preparing to install Kubuntu" screen. Irrespective of whether I tick the checkboxes. The continue button does not seem to be active at least has no effect. The back button works and brings me to the language selection. Anyone an idea on this? (network
[10:11] <Frans> connectivity is ok)
[10:14] <atdprhs>  I have netgear D7800, and I have attached my USB external HDD to it, and it's available for access via Windows: \\readyshare\myhdd, ubuntu:smb://readyshare/myhdd, now I have installed cifs-utils, and modified my fstab: //readyshare/myhdd /media/WorkDrive cifs workgroup=workgroup,iocharset=utf8,gid=1000,uid=1000,file_mode=0777,dir_mode=0777 0 0 I have obtained my uid and gid via id myusername, what I'm getting is either "mount error: could
[10:14] <atdprhs> not resolve address for readyshare: Unknown error" or "mount: unknown filesystem type 'smbfs'" if I used "smb" in the url, I have followed so many different articles and blogs, answers, including this >> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MountWindowsSharesPermanently
[10:14] <Frans> (actually I did the an install earlier today without problem; <scratches head>)
[10:15] <atdprhs> @frans, I also did install it without issues
[10:15] <Frans> yeah no idea why it did not work the 2nd time
[10:15] <atdprhs> Check the machine settings?
[10:15] <atdprhs> What error do you get?
[10:16] <Frans> no error, the continue button is not active at all, It does not proceed; back remains working
[10:16] <atdprhs> Check "Right Click on Machine" >> "Show Logs"
[10:17] <Frans> @atdprs wrt your problem: can you ping readyshare? That is a probably a samba name (or samba to ip name resolution is not working); it has been quite a while since I was there
[10:18] <Frans> log gives no problem althoug some message on guest size-hint
[10:21] <atdprhs> When I installed Android in VirtualBox the first time, the mouse wasn't working, or (clicking I would say)
[10:22] <atdprhs> restarting and retrying worked, not sure what was the reason
[10:24] <atdprhs> @frans, have you tried alternative dvd?
[10:25] <atdprhs> or iso?
[10:27] <Frans> atdprhs: I used iso, same iso as earlier today when it worked;
[10:27] <Frans> it is about lunchtime here, will try a reboot of the VM after that to retry (unless someone comes up with a suggestion before)
[10:27] <Frans> thanks for your suggestions!
[10:33] <atdprhs> [20:30] <atdprhs> How much memory assigned to the machine?
[10:38] <atdprhs> @Frans, can you send me the log for the machine, use http://paste.ubuntu.com
[10:45] <atdprhs> Have any one managed to configure Skype for Business on Kubuntu?
[10:46] <atdprhs> Yahoo is desupporting KDE Telepathy and the protocol that it used to use will be blocked :( , no gmail, no skype (but I"m using normal Skype :D)
[11:11] <Frans> coming back on my earlier question; I went away for lunch and after that the button worked; guess it was downloading the updates in the background
[11:13] <Frans> been too optimistic, I got to the partition menu, went back to the preparing menu and have the same issue again :-(
[11:22] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:40] <hazamonzo> Howdy BluesKaj
[11:41] <BluesKaj> hey hazamonzo
[11:42] <Frans> for those following my problem, I found what it is, virtualbox will by default give ubuntu 8GB storage which is probably not enough. WHen I changed to 100 and tried again all worked!
[11:45] <BluesKaj> Frans, yes especially if you install more packages than default
[13:12] <nlsthzn> peeps, how do I change the steam system tray icon?! it used to work to change the file found in /usr/share/pixmaps/ to the one you want but it isn't working anymore?!
[13:23] <acheronuk> nlsthzn: It still does, but you may have to clear plasma related cache items in ~/.cache/ and/or /var/tmp/kde-yourusername/ and restart plasma for it to take *immediate* effect
[13:25] <nlsthzn> acheronuk: me checks it out, thanks.
[13:26] <nlsthzn> worked, thansk
[13:26] <nlsthzn> *thanks
[13:26] <acheronuk> nlsthzn: yep, just tried here as well http://i.imgur.com/3uI4jr1.png
[13:26] <acheronuk> Good :D
[13:26] <nlsthzn> thanks acheronuk
[13:27] <nlsthzn> no to find a better icon >.<
[13:27] <nlsthzn> this one doesn't fit the theme
[13:28] <acheronuk> lol. yes. as a note, resnet plasma 5 seems to hold on to it's cached icons and svg elements with a firmer grip than previous version did, so you may well get the same trying to edit other things
[13:28] <acheronuk> *recent plasma
[13:29] <nlsthzn> will keep it in mind
[14:51] <GeekK> hi, iḿ using the classic menu in kubuntu, but the recent document and recent applications are greyed out. Anything to be done about this?
[16:04] <Smurphy> Ok. Had various crashes while copying files through kdeconnect from my desktop to my pixel c. ... Upgrade kdeconnect to 1.0, and the crashes went away.
[16:04] <Smurphy> Nice.
 Where did you get kdeconnect 1.0?
 Smurphy
[16:53] <Smurphy> here http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2016/08/install-kde-connect-1-0-ubuntu-16-04/
 Grrrr
 Back port landing should not be added to stable system
[19:04] <Smurphy> Yes. Just for the installation I did it though. And it worked fine.
[19:05] <Smurphy> When I use version 0.9 from 16.04 and listen to Music over NFS (Flac files), the network stack crashes. So I didn't really have a choice.
[19:05] <Metamorphosis> hello. noob here. i installed ubuntu. how can i change that to kubuntu
[19:06] <Metamorphosis> what package to install and how to make it default?
 'sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop' would do most of it
[19:09] <Smurphy> You don't have to make it default. Once you logged in, and choosed Plasma/KDE - next time it will be the default.
[19:09] <Smurphy> Of course, it will have to be installed first -> as IrcsomeBot stated.
 .....as Rik Mills stated
 ircsomebot is just a bot
 Yes Rik not the not lol
 *bot
 missing you Aaron
 I was just going to say lol
 Its midnight now there?
 Must be


[12:09] <LaserJock> ogra: I found the problem
[12:09] <LaserJock> ogra: there is a wrapper script. I just isn't installed into the deb
[12:10] <ogra> gah
[12:10] <ogra> my mistake then
[12:11] <LaserJock> ogra: but there needs to be some symlinks (it expects everything in /usr/lib/squeak/ and we install in /usr/share/squeak/)
[12:11] <ogra> just change the script ? i dont think its upstream ...
[12:12] <ogra> my packages were based on some guadalinex sourcepackages ...
[12:13] <LaserJock> apparently the script is pretty popular
[12:15] <ogra> but why should we add unecessary symlinks ?
[12:15] <ogra> change the location of the target then ?
[12:16] <ogra> i.e. lets just install to /usr/lib ...
[12:16] <LaserJock> just a sec, I think the script is created by ./configure so I'm not entirely sure how to switch it
[12:16] <LaserJock> ogra: we could do that too
[12:17] <ogra> if there is no policy violation through installing to /usr/lib ... (which i doubt) ...
[12:29] <LaserJock> ogra: initsqueak is created by ./configure so I think it would be better to symlink or change install targets
[12:31] <ogra> lets change targets then
[12:32] <ogra> there is no danger that we clash with debian any day before apple is broke
[12:32] <LaserJock> lol
[12:33] <ogra> and i think the upstream code didnt change since ages, did it ?
[12:33] <LaserJock> I don't think so
[12:33] <LaserJock> but now I got #squeak arguing about inisqueak so...
[12:34] <ogra> heh
[12:34] <LaserJock> see inisqueak is ok from CLI
[12:34] <LaserJock> but as far as putting something in the menu, it isn't so good
[12:35] <LaserJock> somebody over there has a little zenity script but I'm not sure if that is a great solution either
[12:35] <ogra> it needs to check if the user has a writable image ... if so, it should start the vm ... if not, it should create a default image ...
[12:35] <ogra> doesnt it do that ?
[12:35] <ogra> why should zenity be needed ?
[12:36] <LaserJock> it copies the default image to `pwd` if one isn't found
[12:36] <ogra> i dont see any need for user interaction ...
[12:36] <LaserJock> what would `pwd` be for a menu item?
[12:36] <ogra> and i dont see why we shouldnt be able to run it from a .desktop file
[12:37] <ogra> cd ~ && inisqueak ?
[12:37] <LaserJock> yeah, that was just what was suggested in #squeak
[12:37] <ogra> but i think you can make it a lot more elegant ...
[12:37] <LaserJock> is a .desktop file installed?
[12:38] <LaserJock> I didn't see one offhand
[12:38] <ogra> iirc there is an option in the xdg spec for the working dir
[12:38] <ogra> it should at least be in the source
[12:39] <LaserJock> ok, so here is what I'll do. I'll fix the targets to put .changes .image and .sources in /usr/lib/squeak and then make sure a .desktop is installed that runs inisqueak
[12:43] <LaserJock> ogra: I think Path might work in the .desktop
[12:46] <LaserJock> I think I can also get rid of /etc/alternatives stuff in squeak-image since alternatives are essentially handles by inisqueak
[01:29] <iGotNoTime> ogra are you here?
[01:30] <iGotNoTime> I just was at this page: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki and at the bottom it says....
[01:30] <iGotNoTime>  Edubuntu 5.10   ogra is the lead person
[01:31] <iGotNoTime> I feel so bad about asking for so much help from someone sooooo far ahead of what I could ever do with Linux, just wanted to say I appreciate the help you gave me and the time
[01:31] <ogra> thats been an old spec
[01:31] <iGotNoTime> just a thank you :)
[01:31] <ogra> i should just lead the development on it ...
[01:31] <ogra> :)
[01:32] <ogra> actually i didnt know that page still exists :)
[01:32] <iGotNoTime> yeah it was the main :D
[01:32] <ogra> it was the frontpage when we started and had a separate wiki
[01:34] <ogra> oh, its still linked as the frontpage from the website :) i didnt know that
[01:35] <iGotNoTime> honored you are :D
[01:37] <iGotNoTime> I have a suggestion... It took me forever to find how to add a "start-up program", maybe that could be in it's own menu dialogue rather than under sessions?
[01:38] <iGotNoTime> Unless you are looking to avoid the Windows feel :P
[01:38] <iGotNoTime> just a suggestion from a guy with XP still very fresh in his head :)
[01:39] <ogra> there is an easier way :)
[01:39] <ogra> just save your session ...
[01:39] <ogra> (alt-f2 and type gnome-session-save)
[01:40] <iGotNoTime> I am scared how much temp space it would take to do that :)
[01:40] <ogra> it will then start up whats currently running
[01:40] <ogra> none at all
[01:40] <iGotNoTime> I never reboot anyway, just a thought for those who do
[01:40] <iGotNoTime> that's very cool :)
[01:41] <ogra> it just saves a list of the currently running programs and their open files ...
[01:41] <ogra> and restores the session to match that list
[01:41] <iGotNoTime> I do actually save session on my laptop, but I have issues with it so I don't use now
[01:41] <iGotNoTime> the fan does not work with edubuntu LOL
[01:41] <iGotNoTime> I could cook eggs on it
[01:42] <ogra> whats that for a laptop ?
[01:42] <iGotNoTime> Averatec 3200 series
[01:42] <iGotNoTime> I think 3250
[01:42] <ogra> amd64 ?
[01:42] <iGotNoTime> no big deal, I just run it for no more than 10 minutes these days because of it :)
[01:42] <ogra> or i386
[01:43] <iGotNoTime> it is AMD but I don't know what chip
[01:43] <ogra> but its clearly a bug ...
[01:43] <iGotNoTime> could just be my brand
[01:43] <iGotNoTime> I am not blaming edubuntu :)
[01:43] <ogra> unless you have an amd64 and run the i386 version on it
[01:43] <ogra> blame edubuntu ...
[01:43] <iGotNoTime> edubuntu is too cute to blame for anything bad :D
[01:44] <ogra> its supposed to work and should be fixed :)
[01:44] <iGotNoTime> I had a nightmare experience with CentOS a couple weeks ago
[01:44] <iGotNoTime> completely crashed my bios
[01:44] <iGotNoTime> had to buy a new motherboard
[01:44] <ogra> how that ?
[01:44] <iGotNoTime> I don't know
[01:45] <iGotNoTime> I never would have thought a distro could do anything like that
[01:45] <iGotNoTime> I always had to flash my bios before
[01:45] <iGotNoTime> couldn't re-flash this one because bios is not public yet
[01:45] <iGotNoTime> so here it sits
[01:45] <iGotNoTime> they said in IRC they have seen it before
[01:46] <iGotNoTime> crazy
[01:46] <iGotNoTime> anyway I am back to the wiki :)
[01:46] <iGotNoTime> have a great night :)
[01:55] <ogra> night :)
[01:58] <LaserJock> ogra: ok, I actually found a shell script from Lex Spoon that does exactly what we want
[01:58] <ogra> cool
[01:58] <ogra> did you get my last messages before my line dropped ?
 iirc there is an option in the xdg spec for the working dir
 it should at least be in the source
 the .desktop file is in the linex dir in squeak-vm
[01:59] <LaserJock> yeah, I found the .desktop
[01:59] <ogra> there is also an inisqueak (called just squeak)
[01:59] <LaserJock> but inisqueak is interactive so it put me in an infinite loop :-)
[02:00] <ogra> sadly its spanish ...
[02:00] <ogra> and my spanish is nonexistent :)
[02:00] <LaserJock> but this script I found really does the same thing but better, for now
[02:00] <ogra> yep
[02:00] <ogra> the linex one is pretty evil
[02:01] <ogra> ensuredir()
[02:01] <ogra> {
[02:01] <ogra>   if [ ! -d "${1}" ]  ; then
[02:01] <ogra>     if mkdir "${1}" ; then
[02:01] <ogra>         echo squeak: Creado ${1}
[02:01] <ogra>         if [ -d $GNOME_DESKTOP ] ; then
[02:01] <ogra>                 cp /usr/share/applications/squeak.desktop $GNOME_DESKTOP/
[02:01] <ogra>         fi
[02:01] <ogra>     else
[02:01] <ogra>       echo squeak: <A1>No se ha podido crear ${1}!
[02:01] <ogra>     fi
[02:01] <ogra>   fi
[02:01] <LaserJock> the inisqueak script is good for installing multiple versions because it asks you which .image you want to install
[02:01] <ogra> }
[02:01] <ogra> it copies the .desktop file on your desktop if its not there yet ...
[02:02] <ogra> if you delete it and start suqeak, it will reappear
[02:03] <LaserJock> ok, so to make squeak working we can install this script to /usr/bin/squeak and have squeak-image
[02:04] <ogra> yep
[02:04] <LaserJock> ok, I'll have it done shortly
[02:19] <iGotNoTime> I have a noob question.... some programs start in usr/bin/ and some start from usr/share/
[02:19] <iGotNoTime> what's the difference?
[02:21] <iGotNoTime> For example Gdesklets is in /usr/bin/ yet Asterisk is in /usr/share/
[02:22] <iGotNoTime> oops just double-checking I meant sbin not share :P
[02:23] <Sergi0>  /share are alot of stuf data for the programs, normaly the executable should be in /usr/bin
[02:23] <Sergi0> sbin if system task, a normal user would need them, sudo or root does use them
[02:24] <iGotNoTime> ok
[02:24] <Sergi0> a normal user would not need them :P
[02:24] <Sergi0> bad typo :)
[02:24] <iGotNoTime> so more like system utilities and such?
[02:24] <Sergi0> yup
[02:25] <iGotNoTime> ok
[08:13] <iGotNoTime> Anyone know the TFTP default root directory in edubuntu?
[09:48] <JaneW> Here's a feature we DON'T need for Edubuntu  http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2002/paperclip-p1.php
[09:48] <Burgundavia> http://www.nongnu.org/pyscitrivia/howto.html
[09:48] <Burgundavia> hmm, looks nifty
[09:49] <Burgundavia> too bad it needs pygame
[09:53] <vandenoever> hello, yesterday i posted a msg to the mailing list
[09:53] <vandenoever> it's awaiting moderation
[09:53] <vandenoever> does that usually take long?
[09:54] <Burgundavia> JaneW: it might be smart to register edubuntu.com
[09:54] <Burgundavia> oh, wait, nev mind
[09:57] <Burgundavia> ogra: you awake?
[10:01] <jamey2> my college is interested in setting up an edubuntu/ubuntu network, can someone please advise me on a few things?
[10:01] <Burgundavia> jamey2: shoot. I might be able to answer
[10:02] <jamey2> thanks
[10:02] <jamey2> ok, well our first worry is how the servers will work... how do multiple servers work together, and what sort of spec will we need?
[10:03] <Burgundavia> jamey2: there are a number of ways, but I understand quite well. I am not the expert on this
[10:03] <jamey2> i've been reading on the wikis, it seems they recommend a base of 256 mb + about 50 mb per client
[10:03] <jamey2> but then other sites recommend varying amounts of RAM per client
[10:03] <jamey2> what do you think?
[10:04] <Burgundavia> edubunt is a little bit heavier than some other ltsp, from what I understand
[10:04] <jamey2> ah ok, i see
[10:04] <Burgundavia> I think our recommendation is 128 per client
[10:04] <jamey2> woah
[10:04] <Burgundavia> let me just find
[10:05] <jamey2> right... that means 256 + (128 * 250)... 32256 mb
[10:05] <jamey2> ok
[10:06] <Burgundavia> ok, Edubuntu documentation is a mess
[10:06] <jamey2> yeah it's a bit disorganized
[10:06] <Burgundavia> jamey2: anyway, what other questions did you have?
[10:06] <jamey2> how do the servers work together?
[10:07] <jamey2> i've searched a while but can't find much on multiple servers under ltsp/*ubuntu
[10:08] <Burgundavia> I believe it is possible, but to be honest, I am not certain how, nor can I point you at a doc
[10:08] <jamey2> ok thanks anyway
[10:09] <jamey2> i do have another question: how do you find edubuntu for education in general?
[10:09] <Burgundavia> good and getting better
[10:10] <jamey2> great
[10:10] <Burgundavia> the current stable release is first release, with a few kinks
[10:10] <jamey2> brill
[10:10] <Burgundavia> s/is/is a
[10:10] <Burgundavia> our next stable release is on July 1st
[10:10] <Burgundavia> this next release will be supported for 3 years
[10:11] <ogra> Burgundavia, we're not clear about that yet for edubuntu .
[10:11] <Burgundavia> ogra: oh?
[10:11] <ogra> since we say server distros are supported 5 years
[10:11] <jamey2> ah
[10:11] <ogra> and edubuntu defaults to a server install
[10:11] <jamey2> ogra, do you have in idea about multiple server configs?
[10:11] <ogra> but its not a classic server
[10:12] <Burgundavia> no
[10:12] <Burgundavia> effectively, that would mean supporting gnome for 5 years
[10:12] <ogra> jamey2, you maen clustering like openmosix etc ?
[10:12] <jamey2> um, not exactly
[10:12] <jamey2> i've read on a few pages that you can simply have multiple ltsp/edubuntu servers which spread the load
[10:12] <ogra> just a bootserver and an appserver then ?
[10:12] <jamey2> ah yeah
[10:13] <jamey2> well i thought one would be the file server, the rest app servers or something?
[10:13] <ogra> we use simple ssh tunnels to forward the display, so every machine with a ssh server and some kind of desktop installed can be a server
[10:14] <ogra> you could then also split out the booting to a separate server (which likely makes no sense)
[10:14] <ogra> and add a nfs server with home dirs
[10:14] <jamey2> i see
[10:16] <ogra> in principle you can split ltsp into one server per task if you really want that
[10:17] <ogra> for real clustering you should talk to neuralis, he experimented a lot with openssi
[10:17] <ogra> he's usually in #ltsp
[10:17] <jamey2> i'm talking to him now :)
[10:17] <ogra> oh, i see
[10:17] <ogra> heh
[10:18] <jamey2> sorry for sounding so naive, but what i meant is...
[10:18] <ogra> wasnt in that tab today yet :)
[10:18] <Burgundavia> ogra: have we ever considered pygame?
[10:18] <ogra> Burgundavia, dont we ship it in the ubuntu default install already ?
[10:18] <jamey2> we have a large college with 250 machines spread out over a large area but all on the same subnet. we want any student to be able to login from any terminal and get their home dir /apps
[10:18] <Burgundavia> ogra: universe
[10:19] <ogra> ah
[10:19] <jamey2> so would a nfs server with the home dirs work, and does edubuntu/ltsp deal with this config?
[10:19] <ogra> most likely nobody stepped up to support it for main yet ...
[10:19] <jamey2> sorry for all the questions
[10:19] <Burgundavia> ogra: it would mean pulling more of sdl in
[10:19] <ogra> not out of the box, you'll need some tweaking
[10:20] <ogra> Burgundavia, yep ... i doubt pitti would be happy
[10:20] <ogra> but it shouldnt be to hard to achieve that
[10:20] <Burgundavia> jamey2: no questions means nobody is using edubuntu, so questions are good :)
[10:20] <ogra> (i.e. likely only an entry in the clients fstab)
[10:21] <ogra> since i'm currently the walking documentation for ubuntu ltsp (dont let me get hit by a bus) ... go and ask ;)
[10:21] <ogra> s/go/go on/
[10:22] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PythonEduLab <-- lets make pitti tear his hair out for dapper+1 :)
[10:23] <ogra> the title sounds suspicious like a jelkner thing ...
[10:23] <Burgundavia> it is
[10:24] <highvoltage> ogra: does nexenta contain all the packages that ubuntu does
[10:24] <ogra> lol
[10:24] <highvoltage> ?
[10:24] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: mostly
[10:24] <highvoltage> (hi, btw)
[10:24] <ogra> highvoltage, i'd guess so, yes
[10:24] <ogra> as far as they compile
[10:24] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: would you be able to do a apt-get install edubuntu-desktop in nexenta?
[10:24] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: don't know if they do the meta packages
[10:24] <ogra> highvoltage, you would if they did :)
[10:25] <highvoltage> ogra: what do you mean?
[10:25] <Burgundavia> wxwidgets, pygame, sdl, where does the crack stop?
[10:25] <ogra> Burgundavia, ask jelkner :)
[10:25] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: hollywood, baby
[10:26] <ogra> highvoltage, you would be able to install edubuntu on nexenta if they would build it
[10:26] <highvoltage> ok.
[10:26] <ogra> we'll have our own sparc port soon, then ltsp will work on sparc and we'll have edubuntu on sparc ...
[10:26] <ogra> (dapper+1)
[10:28] <Burgundavia> is sparc going official for dapper+1?
[10:29] <ogra> i think so ...
[10:29] <ogra> but there is nothing final yet
[10:29] <Burgundavia> I should be in Germany in July, so we can chat more then
[10:33] <ogra> i'm not sure if *i* am in germany in july ...
[10:33] <Burgundavia> why not?
[10:33] <ogra> we'll pretty sure not have our conference her
[10:33] <ogra> e
[10:33] <Burgundavia> oh
[10:33] <Burgundavia> while silly people are kicking around a silly black and white ball?
[10:33] <ogra> soccer championship starts mid june
[10:34] <ogra> i rather hide from that :)
[10:35] <Burgundavia> it is a real shame that schoolforge is basically dead
[10:41] <highvoltage> :(
[10:42] <Burgundavia> as is seul/edu
[10:42] <Burgundavia> in fact, I think the most active educational stuff in Linux has been centered around ltsp
[10:43] <spacey> mhz had some educational content ideas as well
[10:43] <spacey> but i didn't read anything about it after he proposed it
[10:43] <Burgundavia> I wish I had more time in the day
[10:43] <spacey> yeah
[10:44] <spacey> or my lifespan would be longer
[10:44] <spacey> or need less sleep :P
[10:44] <spacey> no time !:P
[10:49] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: that's not a silly black and white ball :P
[10:49] <jsgotangco> trying to hit a puck with a stick is much sillier :P
[10:50] <Burgundavia> I was arguing about a silly b/w ball, nothing to do with another silly sport involving a puck
[10:51] <ogra> Burgundavia, schoolforge dead ?
[10:51] <ogra> what makes you think that ?
[10:52] <Burgundavia> ogra: the app list is barely maintained and hideous
[10:52] <jsgotangco> well 3/4 of the world beg to differ on the b/w ball heh
[10:52] <Burgundavia> only because it takes less equipment to play
[10:52] <ogra> Burgundavia, that might be true, but schoolforge itself was at least alive in january
[10:52] <ogra> (i met one of the guys at a conference)
[10:53] <Burgundavia> which conference?
[10:53] <ogra> a thin from the EU
[10:53] <ogra> *thing
[10:53] <Burgundavia> http://www.schoolforge.net/ <-- this schoolforge?
[10:53] <ogra> yes
[10:53] <JaneW> guys, we have been asked what text we would like on the edubuntu CD covers...?
[10:54] <ogra> oh, do we ?
[10:54] <highvoltage> :)
[10:54] <jsgotangco> with a dragon yin yang tatoo
[10:54] <Burgundavia> "this computer will cause your teacher to be happy. Use with caution"
[10:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: what about updating the text that were on the old covers?
[10:54] <ogra> if anyone is fond of helping to test flight-6, its due for today
[10:55] <jsgotangco> ohhh
[10:55] <jsgotangco> should i grab an image?
[10:55] <highvoltage> kewl
[10:55] <ogra> yeah, grab it :)
[10:56] <pips1> ogra, there is  http://www.schoolforge.net/ and http://schoolforge.org.uk/ . The latter is maintained by John Ingleby who we met in London :-)
[10:56] <jsgotangco> shold i get the currend daily?
[10:56] <Burgundavia> pips1: the former is still active, but appears to be US oriented
[10:56] <ogra> pips1, ahh, then i muddled them
[10:57] <ogra> Burgundavia, i meant .co.uk
[10:57] <pips1> org.uk ;-)
[10:57] <ogra> err, yes
[10:58] <ogra> do they also need their own namespace on the internt ?
[10:59] <JaneW> we had this for the CDs before (unofficial) https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCdLabelAndSlip
[10:59] <Burgundavia> well, good night. I need to sleep
[11:00] <ogra> night Burgundavia
[11:00] <ogra> JaneW, we should adjust that a bit, but i think its still fine
[11:01] <JaneW> ogra: I think so too
[11:02] <JaneW> ogra: think we should list some of the applications and uses?
[11:02] <highvoltage> night Burgundavia
[11:02] <jsgotangco> probably the more obvious ones
[11:03] <ogra> JaneW, i woldnt ... the app selection slowly starts to differ between the arches due to our space problems
[11:04] <highvoltage> JaneW: there was another cd slip too, wasn't there? or was that Ubuntu
[11:05] <highvoltage> JaneW: i remember seeing a nice edubuntu one with a breezy badger on it
[11:06] <JaneW> highvoltage: no that was never official or accepted
[11:06] <JaneW> it was created by Sebastein Loss
[11:07] <JaneW> he put a huge amount of effort in and I was a bit annoyed that none of his stuff was used
[11:07] <JaneW> or even acknowledged as far as I know
[11:09] <highvoltage> i've always liked his stuff. i feel a bit bad that his stuff wan't used either, but as far as i can recall, it was just because no printed cd's were planned?
[11:09] <highvoltage> JaneW: i loved his design though
[11:09] <highvoltage> (still do)
[11:13] <ogra> ok, i386 live seems good ...
[11:13] <jsgotangco> crickey so i get to test amd64 for edubuntu flight 6 jeez
[11:14] <ogra> yeah
[11:14] <jsgotangco> ok 1 hour to go
[11:15] <JaneW> ogra: did you see silb's message for edubuntu artwork links?
[11:17] <highvoltage> ogra: is this the flight 6 cd? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/dapper-install-i386.iso
[11:18] <jsgotangco> im getting the current as well
[11:18] <jsgotangco> well that's the candidate for flight 6
[11:19] <ogra> highvoltage, yep
[11:19] <ogra> live will likely se a rebuild to get the latest network-manager in
[11:58] <pips1> ogra, the header info still says MEETING: March 15 at 12:00 UTC instead of March 29 12:00 UTC ... also, I just realised that in Europe, we now have +2 hours off-set from UTC, because of daylight saving time...
[11:59] <ogra> feel free to chane :)
[11:59] <ogra> *change
[11:59] <ogra> the topic isnt locked
[12:03] <ogra> JaneW, according to silbs request, we'll likely have another text it seems
[12:03] <JaneW> ogra: huh?
[12:03] <JaneW> ogra: she sent me a mail asking for CD civer text, which I replied to
[12:03] <ogra> JaneW, see her last mail
[12:04] <JaneW> ogra: now she wants install instructions
[12:04] <JaneW> and min specs
[12:04] <ogra> yes
[12:04] <ogra> the'll fill the cover already
[12:04] <JaneW> ogra: can you respond
[12:04] <JaneW> to make sure it's correct
[12:04] <ogra> yep
[12:04] <JaneW> thanks
[12:04] <JaneW> be consise!
[12:05] <ogra> waiting for your reply to hit my inbox ...
[12:05] <ogra> meh, install CDs need a rebuild too
[12:06] <JaneW> ogra: I'll fwd
[12:06] <JaneW> the first mail didn;t have you CCed
[12:06] <ogra> ah, k
[12:06] <ogra> then it gets hard to check :)
[12:10] <ogra> JaneW, dont we also offer commercial support as well ?
[12:11] <JaneW> ogra: er, I donlt know, not officially yet afaik
[12:11] <JaneW> but I am sure we would/could if there was demand
[12:12] <ogra> we have a special http://www.ubuntu.com/support/supportoptions/paidsupport talks about "Cluster and Thin Client Support"
[12:12] <ogra> *special offer
[12:15] <JaneW> oic
[12:23] <ogra> jsgotangco, the kbd-chooser changes were forgotten ... you might have probs installing with a non english keyboard
[12:23] <ogra> (there is a CD rebuild pending)
[12:23] <jsgotangco> its ok i'll test it on an en_us keyboard
[12:23] <jsgotangco> the only non-us keyboard i have here are my 2 laptops
[12:23] <ogra> and live is missing the latest artwork ...
[12:24] <jsgotangco> oh not that much of an issue then
[12:24] <ogra> thanks to a rebuild of the complete KDE world ...
[12:24] <jsgotangco> except the kbd
[12:24] <jsgotangco> weee
[01:45] <Bluekujaa> jonathan?
[01:48] <JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 12 mins
[01:49] <Bluekujaa> yeah i remember it :)
[01:49] <Bluekujaa> i will arrive 5 minutes later
[01:49] <Bluekujaa> ;)
[01:55] <highvoltage> i'm here i'm here i'm here!
[01:55] <highvoltage> geez, traffic is dense, and i'm in time for the meeting :)
[01:56] <ogra> arent you using gprs anyway ?
[01:56] <ogra> you could do it from a traffic jam :)
[01:57] <highvoltage> ogra: i've used IRC on gprs from my laptop while driving before, it won't be the first :)
[01:57] <highvoltage> (although right now i'm at work with nice, free bandwidth)
[01:57] <ogra> heh
[03:04] <bobulator> afternoon, it's all gone a bit wrong. i did a fresh flight 5 install, and im getting 'Error 17: CAnnot mount selected partition' any ideas?
[03:06] <ogra> bobulator, looks like a BIOS issue, set the acess mode for your disk to LBA
[03:08] <bobulator> ogra, hmm do you know what section thats in? i cant see it... brb
[03:08] <ogra> no idea ... anywhere in the HD settings of the BIOS
[03:10] <bobulator> k
[03:13] <bobulator> ogra, ah got it, LBA mode is on. just checking... i put GRUB on the main partition of the system drive (its not asked me that question before, incidentally). and it also says it cant read the filesystem type
[03:14] <ogra> err, you need to put GRUB into the MBR, unless you already have a bootloader
[03:15] <bobulator> wheres the MBR?
[03:15] <bobulator> its jsut odd its not asked me where to put it before...
[03:19] <bobulator> where should i be installing grub then if not on the main partition?
[03:19] <highvoltage> bobulator: MBR is your master boot record
[03:19] <highvoltage> it's located at the beginning of the disk, it's where your bios looks for information about your bootloader
[03:20] <highvoltage> if your hard disk is /dev/sda, then specifying /dev/sda as your location to install grub will install it to MBR
[03:20] <bobulator> ok... i think thats what i did though.
[03:20] <highvoltage> if you specify a partition, such as /dev/sda1, then it won't write to your MBR, which is useful for dual-booting.
[03:20] <bobulator> maybe i did /dev/hde1, would that mess it up?
[03:20] <bobulator> ahhhh
[03:21] <highvoltage> 'mess up' is perhaps a strong word
[03:21] <bobulator> do you think thats my problem? im getting "Error 17: CAnnot mount selected partition"
[03:21] <highvoltage> you could chroot into your installation and do a 'sudo grub-install /dev/hde' and it could re-install it on MBR
[03:21] <bobulator> and the grub thing was the only thing in the install process i was unsure of
[03:22] <highvoltage> i don't know, it's possible, though.
[03:22] <bobulator> ok :)
[03:22] <bobulator> hmm how can i chroot into a half installed system though? methinks i need to start again... argh
[03:23] <bobulator> it wont let me ssh in anyway
[03:23] <ogra> highvoltage, pfft ...
[03:23] <ogra> "<highvoltage> you could chroot into your installation and do a 'sudo grub-install /dev/hde' and it could re-install it on MBR"
[03:23] <ogra> the CD has a rescue mode ...
[03:23] <ogra> with an option to fix the grub install ;)
[03:23] <highvoltage> ah, right! sorry, i'm a bit old school.
[03:23] <bobulator> ah ok :D
[03:23] <ogra> you just select it :)
[03:23] <bobulator> thats the kind of answer i wanted ;) haha
[03:24] <highvoltage> bobulator: yes, use the nice, shiny rescue mode.
[03:24] <highvoltage> :)
[03:24] <bobulator> the new install screen is pretty, btw
[03:24] <ogra> (needs testing as well :) )
[03:24] <bobulator> yeah theres some weird ggraphics glitch when it loads the progress bar, but i dont think it really matters...
[03:26] <highvoltage> bobulator: you have an intel extreme 2 display card? i've seen something similar to that before.
[03:26] <bobulator> its an ati something something
[03:26] <bobulator> mack 64 II+ extra blah blah
[03:27] <bobulator> ogra, hmm ok, its giving me a choice of devices to use as a root file system, and i have no idea which is which... its listing them as /dev/disk/
[03:27] <ogra> wow, mach 64 is ancient
[03:27] <bobulator> hmm ill double check when it boots
[03:28] <ogra> choose the MBR of your first disk ...
[03:28] <ogra> (not a partition)
[03:28] <bobulator> the options are all in the form /discx /partx
[03:29] <bobulator> so maybe /disc0/part1?
[03:29] <bobulator> that sounds like a partition though
[03:30] <highvoltage> bobulator: what does your bios boot from? /dev/hda?
[03:30] <bobulator> hde
[03:31] <highvoltage> bobulator: then i suggest you try /dev/hde
[03:31] <bobulator> for some reason, even though its on IDE0
[03:31] <bobulator> thats not an option
[03:31] <highvoltage> what are your options?
[03:31] <bobulator> the options are... /dev/disks/disc0/part1 part2 part5, and /dev/disks/disk1/part1 part2 part5, or dev/disks/disk2/part1
[03:32] <bobulator> oh god im being an idiot this is just asking me what i want to use as my rtoot file system
[03:32] <bobulator> argh
[03:32] <highvoltage> hehe :)
[03:33] <bobulator> hmm although, theres no option to reinstall grub if i do select one?
[03:33] <bobulator> the options are... 'execute a shell in /dev/disks/...,' 'execute a shell in the installer environment', 'choose a diff root file system'
[03:34] <highvoltage> i don't know, let me boot from edubuntu CD and check...
[03:34] <bobulator> cool :)
[03:39] <highvoltage> bobulator: did you choose "Re-install GRUB bootloader"?
[03:39] <highvoltage> you are then given a field where you can type in the device
[03:41] <bobulator> there was no option for that
[03:41] <bobulator> hmm
[03:41] <bobulator> ill try again
[03:41] <bobulator> if i go back a bit i can get to 'install the grub boot loader' but theres no 'reinstall' option
[03:41] <bobulator> ill reset anwyay
[03:44] <bobulator> highvoltage, yup ok, so the first option is what to use as a root file system, probably disc0/part1 right?
[03:45] <bobulator> ahhhhh
[03:45] <bobulator> ok the drives are back to front, that explains it
[03:47] <bobulator> highvoltage, still doesnt work :p
[03:48] <highvoltage> :/
[03:48] <bobulator> is there any equivalant of df in grub so i can double check the disks?
[03:48] <ogra> alt-f2
[03:49] <bobulator> doesnt do antyhing? :S
[03:51] <JaneW> gah, I am sick again :(
[03:52] <jsgotangco> hey
[03:52] <JaneW> hey jsgotangco
[03:52] <jsgotangco> you need ubuntu soup
[03:52] <jsgotangco> JaneW: i hope everything is well on your side
[03:52] <JaneW> I am half way through the mailing list mail to jdub and am stuck
[03:52] <JaneW> do we want everyone subscribed to both?
[03:52] <jsgotangco> err
[03:52] <jsgotangco> you need another list?
[03:52] <bobulator> ogra, highvoltage: maybe i should get the latest breezy install then update it manually?
[03:53] <JaneW> I have had som many conflicting opinions and requests that I don't know anymore
[03:54] <Pygi> JaneW: bah, no good :-/
[03:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: i think we should get everyone who's currenlty on -devel on -users
[03:54] <ogra> JaneW, yes !
[03:54] <JaneW> so can I asked for e-devel + e-users and subscribe everyone to both and they can unsub at will?
[03:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: after that, people can subscribe/re-subscribe as they please
[03:54] <JaneW> it's around 380 ppl
[03:55] <highvoltage> ctrl+c, ctrl+v :)
[03:55] <ogra> JaneW, we want them on both, quote me on that and send complaints to me
[03:55] <JaneW> ok deal !
[03:55] <JaneW> :)
[03:55] <ogra> :)
[03:55] <highvoltage> :)
[03:55] <Pygi> :)
[03:56] <ogra> ok, next i386 testinstall running
[03:56] <ogra> that really sucks, i had to cancel some appointments this afternoon, the CDs were ready this morning :(
[03:56] <JaneW> ok sent
[03:56] <Pygi> ogra: huh :-/
[03:57] <ogra> but now it looks like another nightshift ...
[03:57] <highvoltage> :(
[03:57] <ogra> Pygi, shit happens
[03:58] <Pygi> ogra: what happened exactly? (except me and "my" patch ) ^_^
[03:58] <ogra> you and your patch
[03:58] <ogra> and a bug in the kdb-chooser of the install Cd
[03:58] <Pygi> o joy :'(
[03:58] <Pygi> sorry for that ogra :-//
[03:58] <ogra> Pygi, its ok ...
[03:59] <Pygi> nah, it's not really :-/
[03:59] <ogra> would have been my first CD set where everything work flawless
[03:59] <ogra> it never happens :)
[03:59] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:59] <jsgotangco> ogra: well for consolation, amd64 installed nicely
[03:59] <highvoltage> anyone seen mhz around lately?
[03:59] <Pygi> ogra: yes, but this time It's my fault :-P
[03:59] <ogra> jsgotangco, what keymap ?
[03:59] <jsgotangco> US
[03:59] <ogra> heh, ok
[04:00] <ogra> all others are buggy on your version :)
[04:00] <jsgotangco> meh
[04:00] <ogra> the fix went in after you downloaded ...
[04:00] <jsgotangco> it seems even n-m isn't working
[04:01] <Pygi> jsgotangco: ok, what is the problem with n-m this time?
[04:01] <ogra> nope, and i dont understand the reason behind switching to 0.6.x on the current CD ... its known to be broken and in flux
[04:02] <Pygi> ogra: actually, drivers and wpasupplicant is more broken that n-m itself
[04:02] <bobulator> help :( ive triple checked everything and i cant work out whats wrong at allll. im gonna install breezy and update unless anyone has any better ideas...
[04:02] <jsgotangco> bobulator: what exactly is the problem? i have no scrollback
[04:03] <bobulator> standard install off a flight 5 disk, and im getting 'error 17: cannot mount selected partition'
[04:03] <ogra> Pygi, but we already know its broken ... testing is pointless in that case
[04:04] <Pygi> ogra: agreed :-/
[04:04] <Pygi> ogra: hopefully 0.6.2 is better
[04:04] <Pygi> much better
[04:04] <Yagisan> ogra: <pc mode=off>we know the reason. All the pussies on the m-l and forums<pc mode=on>
[04:05] <ogra> pc mode ?
[04:05] <ogra> wasnt that CoC mode ? ;)
[04:05] <Yagisan> politically correct
[04:05] <ogra> Pygi, with all the effort you guys put into it, it would be a miracle if it wouldnt :)
[04:06] <Pygi> ogra: bah ;) Everyone makes it's share of work ... that's why dapper will rock ;)
[04:06] <Yagisan> many viable alternatives, but people want to torture themselves
[04:07] <Yagisan> is there really enough time to properly test n-m 0.6 ?
[04:08] <ogra> we have until june 1st :)
[04:08] <bobulator> jsgotangco, any better ideas or shall i do what i suggested?
[04:08] <ogra> and its ugly to revert versions
[04:09] <Pygi> ogra: yup, true ;) now tell me the mail where I request UVF exception, preety please? ^_^
[04:09] <ogra> Pygi, see the wikipage Kamion posted
[04:09] <Pygi> Yagisan: we are working on that as much as we can... I haven't slept for 4 days :-P
[04:09] <bobulator> taking about reverting versions, openoffice seems loads better than openoffice2 to me...
[04:09] <ogra> Pygi, sleep is for the weak
[04:09] <jsgotangco> yes sleep is for the weak
[04:09] <ogra> or the week ?
[04:10] <Pygi> yes, yes, very interesting indeed ^_^
[04:10] <ogra> bobulator, thats not reverting versions :)
[04:10] <jsgotangco> bobulator: hmmmm
[04:10] <jsgotangco> that's going back to the past
[04:10] <ogra> bobulator, its just a new package name ... the version is different
[04:10] <Yagisan> Pygi: that's sort of my point. it is a lot of work. (and someone will whinge for 0.7 the moment you finish)
[04:10] <ogra> jsgotangco, nope, ooo switched the name upstream
[04:11] <jsgotangco> eh?
[04:11] <ogra> they'll drop the 1.X line
[04:11] <jsgotangco> oh goodie
[04:11] <Pygi> Yagisan: hm, If I ever learned something while developing things, I learned that there is no such thing as "finished"
[04:11] <ogra> so the 2 isnt needed anymore in the package name
[04:11] <jsgotangco> ahh
[04:11] <jsgotangco> well it makes sense though
[04:12] <Yagisan> Pygi: sure there is. It's the moment you make a release. the you get a new task.
[04:12] <Yagisan> hmm gcc takes a while to build
[04:12] <Pygi> Yagisan: you are wrong ^_^ release is not "finished"
[04:12] <Pygi> wanna bet there are a lot that should have gone into release, fixed or something, and it isn't there? :P
[04:12] <Pygi> if we would go that way, we would never have a release ;)
[04:13] <Yagisan> Pygi: pfft - of course a release is finished. It's I'm finished, no more is going in that version.
[04:14] <Pygi> o joy, I don't consider that to be like that, but I'll let you be ;)
[04:15] <Yagisan> Pygi: I think your lack of sleep is affecting your sense of humor
[04:15] <Pygi> Yagisan: agreed ;)
[04:15] <Yagisan> Pygi: have kids yet ?
[04:16] <Pygi> sec pls, I'll be back ASAP
[04:17] <Pygi> k, I am back
[04:17] <Pygi> nah
[04:19] <Pygi> JaneW: still here?
[04:19] <JaneW> Pygi: yep
[04:20] <Yagisan> Pygi: 3 more days without sleep, and you are ready to deal with the sleep deprivation that comes with them
[04:20] <Pygi> JaneW: do you want me to mail you log of meeting "tommorow" (at least for me), or you'll just look it up on that logs page?
[04:20] <Pygi> Yagisan: lol ^_^
[04:21] <Yagisan> mhz!
[04:22] <mhz> Yagisan: !
[04:22] <mhz> whaz up?
[04:25] <Yagisan> mhz: cleaning up my deng repo
[04:25] <Yagisan> mhz: trying to ignore crying kids
[04:25] <Yagisan> mhz: yourself ?
[04:27] <mhz> finally, finding out some stuff regarding my 128 MB CF and getting some perspective to get at least money to pay one month rent :D
[04:28] <JaneW> Pygi: yes please (re log)
[04:28] <Yagisan> mhz: hope it goes well for you. moneys tight here too now
[04:28] <JaneW> Pygi: else I donlt mind looking it up either
[04:29] <mhz> Yagisan: the CF inserted to a PCMCIA adapter is recognized as a /dev/hdc in my case
[04:29] <Pygi> JaneW: oki, I'll send the  log to you once meeting is done ^_^
[04:29] <JaneW> Pygi: ty vm
[04:29] <Pygi> JaneW: I hope we'll have some good decisions, and none bad ^_^
[04:29] <JaneW> Pygi: yes!
[04:29] <mhz> and it seems to me the CF may be damaged because it is not possible to mount it using the USB reader
[04:30] <Pygi> JaneW: I suppose we are to update cookbook for version after dapper that are yet to come, right?
[04:30] <Pygi> s/version/versions
[04:31] <JaneW> Pygi: yes, as relevant
[04:31] <JaneW> try to make it as generic as possible where you can, but obviously we'll have some version specifics
[04:31] <Pygi> JaneW: kk, but first work on this one needs to be finished ^_^ We'll get it ready for dapper I believe
[04:32] <Pygi> JaneW: yes, ofcourse ... we can't avoid some things that are "too version specific"
[04:33] <Pygi> anyway, ogra, will you be reviewing the cookbook? ^_^
[04:33] <jsgotangco> that's nice to know that the cookbook is finally taking steam
[04:34] <Pygi> jsgotangco: yes, after so much "standing period", it's good ;)
[04:34] <Pygi> but a lot more work to be done remains ;)
[04:34] <ogra> Pygi, i plan to help writing it :)
[04:34] <jsgotangco> my apologies I wasn't that much help this cycle
[04:35] <Pygi> ogra: oh, thanks ^_^ Then I'll review your writing ^_^
[04:35] <JaneW> jsgotangco: yes spacey and Pygi have taken the reigns
[04:35] <JaneW> jsgotangco: and ably so it seems \o/
[04:35] <Pygi> :-P
[04:36] <ogra> Pygi, will be hard to review, there wont be any reference to check i'm not writing rubbish apart from the code of ltsp :)
[04:36] <ogra> so you'll have to check the scripts for all the options i write about :)
[04:36] <Pygi> ogra: bah, I know you are no writing rubbish, no worries ;) but I believe we will have to check what other people write ...
[04:37] <Pygi> ogra: that won't be a problem ... as long as it's not ruby or whitespace or some weirder language ;)
[04:37] <ogra> Pygi, i'd appreciate if someone reviews my writing ...
[04:37] <ogra> i tend to make a lot of errors in english ...
[04:37] <Pygi> ogra: no worries ^_^
[04:37] <ogra> ask JaneW about my grammar in the flight announcements :)
[04:37] <jsgotangco> ruby isnt weird :P
[04:37] <ogra> Pygi, its shell and python
[04:37] <JaneW> ogra: it is usually very good!
[04:37] <Pygi> jsgotangco: but whitespace is :-P
[04:38] <jsgotangco> hehe
[04:38] <Pygi> ogra: ah, shell and python are ok ^_^ I can check that out, no probs :P
[04:38] <ogra> JaneW, i remember a very odd one where nobody got what i meant :)
[04:38] <JaneW> ogra: heh
[04:38] <ogra> Pygi, its just that our ltsp is written from scratch, so all docs will be completely new ones ...
[04:39] <Pygi> ogra: ah, no problem ... we'll manage it somehow ^_^ as we always did ;)
[04:39] <ogra> sure :)
[04:40] <Pygi> ogra: but I must remember not to ask for patch inclusion anymore :-P, at least while we are in that freeze thingy ;)
[04:41] <ogra> Pygi, only during the days where we do milestone releases :)
[04:41] <ogra> edubuntu i386 install is gold btw
[04:41] <Pygi> JaneW, ogra: Can we rename the cookbook to "How to cook Edubuntu" ? preety please? ^_^
[04:41] <ogra> we can do everything we want, sure
[04:42] <Pygi> :)
[04:42] <Pygi> we are going to get a lot of bugs report if n-m 0.6.1 doesn't work for people on flight 6
[04:43] <Pygi> and we already had so much duplicates :-/
[04:47] <Pygi> ogra: have a few minutes? I need few lections of how "Main" and updating packages there works ^_^
[04:47] <ogra> later, i'm a bit busy testing CDs now
[04:47] <JaneW> Pygi: why?
[04:48] <Pygi> ogra: ok, sorry ^_^ enjoy testing ;)
[04:48] <JaneW> Pygi: Call it the Edubuntu Cookbook
[04:48] <JaneW> and subtitle 'How to cook with Edubuntu'
[04:48] <Pygi> JaneW: ah, ok :-P
[04:48] <JaneW> Pygi: :)
[04:50] <Pygi> joy. wpasupplicant fixed ;)
[06:30] <bobulator> ok, i reinstalled, upgraded and the server display still isn't working
[07:39] <cbx33> Hi Bluekuja
[07:41] <Bluekuja> hey man
[07:41] <Bluekuja> :)
[07:41] <Bluekuja> how are you?
[07:42] <cbx33> yeh good you?
[07:43] <Bluekuja> really good too
[07:43] <cbx33> excellent
[08:38] <lns> Hey all
[08:38] <ogra> hi
[08:39] <lns> I'm not sure if there's been a bug report filed already but are you aware of a bug in dapper with gnome-applets when you do an apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade?
[08:39] <ogra> thats fixed in edubuntu-artwork 0.1.0-20
[08:40] <lns> ok..just checking. =) thanks!
[08:40] <ogra> i guess you mean the gconf errors :)
[08:40] <lns> yep
[08:40] <lns> the line 56 file not found errors
[08:41] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/37081
[08:41] <lns> in /usr/sbin/update-gconf-defaults
[08:41] <ogra> if yu see further errors with 0.1.0-20, feel free to reopen it :)
[08:41] <lns> ok, for sure. =)
[08:41] <ogra> thanks :)
[08:42] <lns> hey, thank YOU! =)
[08:42] <lns> so
[08:42] <ogra> :)
[08:42] <lns> I'm testing Dapper flight 5... got a couple qs
[08:42] <ogra> shoot
[08:42] <lns> i can't figure out where to change the default wm
[08:42] <lns> i'm sure ldm isn't finished yet
[08:43] <ogra> it is ...
[08:43] <lns> oh ok
[08:43] <lns> well i can't figure out where to change the default wm... i'm wanting to test out fluxbox since it is much less resource intensive than gnome
[08:43] <ogra> the default wm is selected systemwide through update-alternatives
[08:43] <ogra> you need to update the alternative for x-session-manager
[08:44] <lns> ok, awesome
[08:44] <lns> thank you
[08:44] <ogra> additionally ldm starts /etc/X11/Xsession ... which for example reads ~/.xsession
[08:44] <ogra> so either do it user based with that file, or system wide with the alternatives system
[08:45] <lns> ok, jeez i never heard of update-alternatives. learn something new every day. =)
[08:45] <ogra> i'm working on a mode for ldm session selection and a config gui for the october release
[08:45] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
[08:46] <lns> nice!
[08:46] <lns> oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[08:46] <lns> looks awesome ogra
[08:47] <ogra> :)
[08:47] <lns> so i'm sure this really isn't something that we can deal with easily, but what about the gfx rendering in tuxtyping / tuxmath and such?
[08:48] <lns> they're barely useable in an ltsp env. :(
[08:48] <ogra> yep, but thats by design ...
[08:48] <ogra> the upstream developers need to rework that
[08:48] <lns> yeah i agree
[08:48] <ogra> you cant fix it easily without conceptual changes
[08:49] <lns> have you (or anyone) tested edubuntu/ltsp in a gigabit ethernet env?
[08:49] <lns> with gigabit clients AND server that is
[08:49] <ogra> i'm not sure, i think highvoltage runs his servers with gigabit but the clients with 100M
[08:50] <lns> k...that's gonna be my env. - gbit server and 100m clients
[08:52] <ogra> should work fine
[08:53] <lns> yeah...ok dumb ltsp q: so there's 5 kids on 5 thin clients, all using openoffice
[08:53] <lns> is the memory utilization on the server for 5 full openoffice process trees?
[08:53] <ogra> nope
[08:53] <lns> or is it shared between them
[08:54] <lns> ok
[08:54] <ogra> its partially shared and partially not ..
[08:54] <lns> =) that makes me feel better though
[08:54] <ogra> but the bigger amount is the shared one
[08:54] <lns> ok...good news again. =) i only have one client / server to test with so it's good to know it won't be that much worse with say, 10 clients probably
[08:55] <lns> but i also need more than 512mb ram on the server. ;)
[09:07] <lns> k, just requested to join the edubuntu launchpad site ( https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu/+join ).
[09:08] <lns> I feel all involved now ;)
[09:10] <mhz> Yagisan: wow!!11
[09:10] <mhz> \o/ \o/ \o/ Yagisan
[09:11] <Yagisan> summary - project failed. not going in Ubuntu until cleaned up
[09:11] <lns> Sock it to em!
[09:16] <lns> ok off to test!
[09:39] <neurogeek> mhz, how is it going??
[09:40] <mhz> neurogeek: hi
[11:14] <harlock> hello
[11:14] <Pygi> hi harlock
[11:14] <Pygi> spacey: around?


[05:29] -dmwaters(i=dmwaters@freenode/staff/dmwaters)- {global notice} Good day all. We had a problem with one of our rotation servers that segfaulted. We are currently working on the problem, and i will give any further updates in wallops, thank you for your time, and thank you for using freenode!
[07:50] -dmwaters(i=dmwaters@freenode/staff/dmwaters)- {global notice} Hi all! freenode is currently looking for both main rotation  servers and a hub in Europe. if you are interested in sponsoring a server for freenode please see: http://freenode.net/hosting_ircd.shtml Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
[11:32] !dmwaters:*! Hi all, looks like we're still having some problems with that rotation server from earlier, we're still working on the problem, thank you for your time, and thank you for using freenode!
[11:47] -dmwaters(i=dmwaters@freenode/staff/dmwaters)- {global notice} hi all! I need to do some emergency maintenence on 2 rotation servers to help get more rotation servers back into the rotation. This will be mildly disruptive, and i will give more information in wallops as i go. /mode your_nick +w to see them. Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
[11:54] !dmwaters:*! Good day all. the first server i'm going to restart has about 4200 users on it. i'll do it in about 5 minutes or less
[11:59] !dmwaters:*! Ok all, first server done.


[00:00] <rlameiro> Wine is a compatibility layer for windows software
[00:00] <_guitarman_> Ray_ME: i dont miss anything
[00:00] <_guitarman_> Ray_ME: there are tonnes of plugins to play with ... judge for yourself
[00:01] <Ray_ME> i did a bit of reading about wine
[00:01] <Ray_ME> have you tried using adobe audition 3 by any chance?
[00:01] <rlameiro> why would i?
[00:01] <rlameiro> hehe
[00:01] <Ray_ME> with ubst wine set up?
[00:01] <Ray_ME> :P
[00:02] <_guitarman_> Ray_ME: from what i see- wine is a headache ...
[00:02] <rlameiro> you have ardour
[00:02] <rlameiro> why do you need audition?
[00:02] <_guitarman_> Ray_ME: why not dual boot
[00:03] <Ray_ME> no i own it, ive been using the cool edit family since back in the day
[00:03] <_guitarman_> see how you like it.  adobe audition is a fine daw...
[00:04] <Ray_ME> ive been thinking about switching because my gear is outdated but i dont want to upgrade, xp crashes way too much
[00:04] <_guitarman_> ahhhh there you go
[00:05] <_guitarman_> Ray_ME: do you have the means to install it alongside your XP?
[00:05] <rlameiro> well :D welcome then
[00:05] <stochastic> Ray_ME, I've always loved the Cool Edit family when on windows, but since moving to Ardour (for multi tracking) and Rezound (for editing) I've been very happy.
[00:05] <_guitarman_> enough hd space, or a spare disk drive
[00:05] <Ray_ME> i built my own pc so i had to install xp on it
[00:06] <Ray_ME> cool, im going to take a look at those daws stochastic
[00:07] <Ray_ME> i built it about 2 years ago just for my studio work, but only recently learned about ubuntu studio
[00:07] <_guitarman_> Ray_ME: if you do just audio then ardour for the daw, if you do audio and midi then look up Qtractor.
[00:08] <Ray_ME> thanks for all the input, i just want more options and stable results
[00:08] <_guitarman_> here's a Q though... what audio card/interface do you have Ray_ME
[00:08] <rlameiro> Ray_ME: hang around in here
[00:08] <Ray_ME> hehe i use the c-port st audio
[00:08] <rlameiro> lots of info can be exchanged in the channel
[00:08] <Ray_ME> i will, im digging this room, its been years since ive been in a irc
[00:09] <rlameiro> Ray_ME: which sound interface you have?
[00:10] <Ray_ME> dsp2000 c-port
[00:11] <rlameiro> dont know it
[00:11] <_guitarman_> looks like maybe its supported by alsa
[00:11] <rlameiro> well, i am not an expert also, so its natural :D
[00:11] <_guitarman_> google says it knows
[00:14] <Ray_ME> so what are you all in to, music, graphics, multi-media ect...
[00:16] <_guitarman_> music is fun. il ike it
[00:21] <Ray_ME> hello, komputes
[01:57] <eein> is anyone familiar with sound forge?  I am trying to find a wave editor that can do acid functionality like half selections, show in measures when a set bpm is chosen, mix in a paste, and snap selection to a zero sine.  I have been trying to work with audacity for the longest time but it just doesn't work well for what I am looking for (or at least I dont know how to make it work)
[02:02] <komputes> hi Ray_ME
[02:03] <Ray_ME> hi
[02:04] <Ray_ME> not familiar with audacitys functions eein, sorry
[02:05] <eein> Ray_ME, are you familiar with any wave editors that would do that functionality?
[02:06] <holstein> live gig http://holstein.shacknet.nu:8227/stream.ogg
[02:21] <Ray_ME> sorry i was afk. i just use adobe audition 3 because im very comfy using it.
[02:22] <rlameiro> eein: i dont know what you want to do, but did you tried ardour?
[02:23] <Ray_ME> if you are trying to get a wave to snap at zero and its lining the wave at an off time. you should just be able to high-light the start of the wave and hit delete to remove the offset
[02:25] <eein> my main issue with audacity is i want to set a bpm for the wave file and then have the time represented in measures, this helps to find a note that is off
[02:25] <eein> it only displays in time, smaples, and various video time
[02:30] <Ray_ME> might want to try some other programs keyed to in depth editing.  iver tried audacity for a few minutes and i didnt like the work flow
[02:30] <rlameiro> eein, Ardour works with bpm and bars etc
[04:38] <Fezzler> Is there a REAPER IRC channel?
[09:22] <AutoStatic> Is there any news regarding 10.04 and a possible RT kernel?
[09:49] <jussi> AutoStatic: yes there is, its available for testing!
[09:51] <jussi> AutoStatic: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all
[10:26] <AutoStatic> oh sorry, I was busy with something else
[10:26] <AutoStatic> I'll check it out right away!
[10:27] <AutoStatic> Thanks jussi
[10:27] <jussi> :)
[10:31] <AutoStatic> so as in yellow is the new orange
[10:31] <AutoStatic> preempt is the new rt? ;)
[10:31] <AutoStatic> and the daily build includes the 2.6.31-rt headers
[10:31] <AutoStatic> but not a 2.6.31-rt image?
[16:47] <sib> Hello, there. I've got an external drive that seems to be changing permissions on me. How do you guys set permissions on external drives that travel between several different boxes?
[16:49] <holstein> hey sib
[16:49] <holstein> for me
[16:49] <holstein> i got a firewire/USB drive
[16:49] <sib> holstein: hey there...
[16:49] <holstein> external
[16:50] <holstein> and i just mount it each time
[16:50] <holstein> and i havent had any issues
[16:50] <sib> holstein: karmic?
[16:50] <holstein> yup
[16:50] <holstein> but its been like that for a while
[16:50] <holstein> hardy
[16:50] <holstein> sib: what is the error?
[16:50] <holstein> is this gnome?
[16:50] <sib> holstein: huh. I'm having the stupidest time with it right now.
[16:51] <sib> holstein: gnome, yes.
[16:51] <holstein> hmmm
[16:52] <holstein> SO
[16:52] <sib> holstein: first, I recorded audio onto an external drive (esata), that I can't even remember how, but I finally got permissions on.
[16:52] <holstein> OH, USB ?
[16:52] <holstein> OH
[16:52] <holstein> ok
[16:52]  * holstein has not used an Esata drive
[16:53] <sib> holstein: then, using grsync (rsync front end) I backed up the session to an external firewire drive that just mounted.
[16:53] <holstein> what have you tried?
[16:53] <holstein> did you try to mount it
[16:53] <holstein> into a mount point
[16:53] <holstein> and chown that dir ?
[16:53] <holstein> i added a PATA drive to my system
[16:53] <holstein> in etc/fstab
[16:53] <sib> holstein: now, again with rsync, rsync sees the exact same disk (the FW external) as read only, and I've not changed any permissions on it...
[16:54] <holstein> and when it was added, i didnt have write permissinos
[16:54] <holstein> permissions*
[16:54] <sib> holstein: the esata drive is behaving itself, but the fw is flipping out, somehow.
[16:54] <holstein> that is strange
[16:55] <holstein> sib: my user is in the video group
[16:55] <holstein> because i have a firewire audio interface
[16:55] <sib> holstein: I've tried using "gksudo nautilus" to change the permissions, but no dice. they just don't "take"
[16:57] <sib> holstein: hmmm... "video" group, eh? I made an "audio" group and gave it permissions, they seem to be on the drive, I'm in the audio group, but now I can't even create a folder (as normal or super user) and rsync contantly bitches that it's a "read-only" system.
[16:58] <sib> holstein: I guess I'll just chmod it to give everyone permission. I don't like the idea of that, but I'm not sure why; it's not a system disk or anything.
[17:15] <sib> anybody here have netjack (particularly alsa_in and alsa_out) working in Karmic?
[17:17] <sib> holstein: BTW, I forgot to mention that both external drives in question are HFS+, and that may be adding to or even causing my problems...
[17:33] <holstein> sib: thats a lot of variables that im not familiar with
[17:34] <holstein> i have only had FW/USB drives FAT formatted
[17:34] <holstein> i still would not expect the formatting to effect permissions
[17:34]  * holstein gotta run
[17:35] <holstein> i did some successful netjack tests on karmic
[17:35] <holstein> sib: check out #opensourcemusicians
[17:35] <sib> holstein: cool. thanks.
[17:35] <holstein> my tests were local
[17:36] <sib> holstein: have you used alsa_in and alsa_out?
[17:36] <holstein> some guys in there were doing it VIA lan
[17:36] <holstein> sib: its been so long
[17:36] <holstein> i forget what all i tested
[17:36] <holstein> i know i had my firewire device going on my main box
[17:37] <holstein> and a 'dummy' device on the other
[17:37] <holstein> and thats the main configuration i used
[17:37] <holstein> and that would not be using alsa
[20:31] <milanbv> hi there! any dev around?
[23:48] <vlada> hi
[23:49] <vlada> are ppl awake here?
[23:50] <vlada> since 10.04 release is near, and 9.10 is my first ubuntu linux ever, I want to know what is the proper way of upgrading...
[23:51] <vlada> is it safe to do already, or should I wait for famous "New release available" button to appear
[23:51] <vlada> ?


[21:56] <icee> Anyone know who owns mainline builds?  Any chance we can get "one more patch" into the set of things that are applied so we can get linux-perf packages for the mainline builds?
[21:56] <icee> er, linux-tools with perf, etc
[21:57] <apw> icee, mostly that is me ... we don't produce tools generally for those, because we cross build many of the architecutes
[21:57] <icee> apw: aw :(  would be really nice for x86-64
[21:58] <icee> i understand it's a bit niche, but there's a few times it'd have really helped me
[22:00] <icee> (basically i have a habit of ending up with machines that the dist kernel just barely runs on and i have to leap to mainline and then measure stuff that's going on)
[22:47] <White_Light> icee, it's pretty quick to build perf


[03:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mardy dbarth, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1924 Cancelled build (yakkety/account-polld-plugins-go). Failed to build (vivid/account-polld-plugins-go, xenial/account-polld-plugins-go). Successfully built (vivid/account-polld, xenial/account-polld, yakkety/account-polld)
[16:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- greyback, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2077 Dependency wait (vivid/qtmir, vivid/qtmir-gles). Failed to build (vivid/miral, vivid/unity-api, xenial/qtmir, xenial/qtmir-gles, xenial/unity-api, yakkety/qtmir, yakkety/qtmir-gles, yakkety/unity-api). Needs rebuild due to new commits (yakkety/miral). Successfully built (xenial/miral)
[16:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- alan_g, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2067 Needs rebuild due to new commits
[16:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- alan_g, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2068 Needs rebuild due to new commits (yakkety/miral). Successfully built (xenial/miral)


[07:01] <prabhu> how to upgrade from 10.10 to 11.04
[07:23] <holstein> hey prabhu
[07:23] <holstein> i would suggest waiting a bit longer
[07:23] <holstein> maybe looking at it in virtual box
[07:24] <holstein> that being said
[07:24] <holstein> update-manager -d
[07:25] <holstein> OH
[07:25] <holstein> nevermind
[07:25] <holstein> i see its too late ;)
[07:26] <holstein> you already got help over in #ubuntu+1
[07:26] <holstein> anyhow... GN
[07:28] <prabhu> gn


[01:32] <lifeless> mkanat: hi
[01:32] <mkanat> lifeless: Hello.
[01:32] <lifeless> mkanat: do you know if we've deployed your fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/loggerhead/+bug/643497 yet ?
[01:33] <mkanat> lifeless: I've never seen that bug before.
[01:33] <mkanat> lifeless: Oh wait.
[01:33] <mkanat> lifeless: Yes, you have deployed that.
[01:33] <mkanat> lifeless: That is a dup.
[04:11] <lifeless> spm: ping
[04:11] <lifeless> spm: is it possible that nagios etc are generating 7K requests a day per loggerhead instance?
[04:11] <lifeless> spm: including direct, and via ha proxy and via apache
[04:18] <poolie> ok, out for a bit
[04:54] <spm> lifeless: not that I'm seeing - I did a grep on check_http on prod-1, and only saw ~ 15 an hour. Tho ... now the brain engages, we have two. behind a haproxy. which does it's own separate check. betcha dollars to peso's....
[05:14] <AfC> Gotta love proxies. "Yes, the web site is responding. And rapidly at that!" "With what?" "Dunno. Does 404 mean anything to you?"
[06:27] <chx> how can i see changes made in a branch, no merges?
[06:38] <AfC> $ bzr status --no-pending
[06:45] <chx> AfC: i mean, the already committed changes to the branch
[06:45] <chx> AfC: log shows the branch the commit "branch nick" and whether it's a merge or not, i juts want a cumulative diff for the commits to the current branch , no merges.
[06:48] <AfC> $ bzr diff -r -2..-1
[06:48] <chx> ahhhh
[06:48] <chx> ancestor:
[06:48] <chx> gotcha!
[06:48] <AfC> Oh. You're asking about relative to _another_ branch. You didn't say that.
[06:48] <AfC> Yes, ancestor:../mainline (or whatever) is very useful indeed
[06:49] <chx> mmm beautiful
[06:49]  * chx staples the diff to a pink slip and mails to his boss
[06:49] <chx> just as i thought...
[06:50] <chx> very useful indeed.
[07:05] <jelmer> good morning #bzr
[07:25] <GaryvdM_work> chx: also, if you have a submit branch set, submit: is a short cut for ancestor:<path to submit>
[07:48] <vila> GaryvdM_work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/559415/ (sorry I forgot to mail this yesterday)
[07:49] <vila> goooood morning jelmer !
[07:51] <chx> GaryvdM_work: good to know. next time i need to fire a developer based on his (non) work i can use that :D
[08:00] <GaryvdM_work> vila: thanks - My suspicion  was wrong, but I now have a better idea where to look.
[08:00] <vila> GaryvdM_work: excellent !
[08:01] <vila> GaryvdM_work: feel free to poke me at anytime if you want more tests, I know how hard it is to debug something any mean to reproduce and this one seem like a damn stealth bug
[08:01] <vila> poolie: hey !
[08:01] <GaryvdM_work> vila: did you sleep well?
[08:01] <vila> GaryvdM_work: I *slep* which is a huge progress :D
[08:02] <vila> slept, rats
[08:02] <vila> I still feel a bit like crap, but that's at 8pm instead of 11 or 12...
[08:03] <vila> poolie: well done with the kanban stuff, I just found a bug that I forgot to mark fixed released !
[08:04] <vila> poolie: the card give links for both the bug and the branch ! Awesome !
[08:05] <vila> poolie: when are the pages updated ?
[08:19] <jelmer> hi vila, poolie, Gary!
[08:19] <GaryvdM_work> Hi jelmer
[08:20] <vila> maxb: any update about SRU/MRE for 2.2.3 ?
[08:22] <maxb> update?
[08:23] <vila> maxb: what is left to be done, where are we ?
[08:24] <vila> lp:~maxb/ubuntu/maverick/bzr/sru/ doesn't include 2.2.3 and
[08:24] <maxb> I don't think anyone has tackled updating the packaging for 2.2.3 yet. I could look into that over the weekend
[08:25] <vila> lp:ubuntu/maverick/bzr/ is still at 2.2.0
[08:25] <vila> maxb: that would be awesome
[08:25] <mgz> morning all.
[08:25] <jelmer> hi mgz
[08:25] <vila> maxb: tell me if I can help here
[08:25] <vila> hi mgz
[08:26] <maxb> NB lucid is in SRU freeze at the moment
[08:27] <maxb> Although we somehow seem to have not started discussing SRUing lucid, even though it's the LTS
[08:27] <vila> maxb: from your explanations I thought we should start with maverick
[08:28] <poolie> hi vila, jelmer, gary, maxb
[08:28] <vila> maxb: which is 2.2 and that's the one I mostly interested in, lucid is only at 2.1
[08:28] <poolie> vila, at the moment i built the kanban on my laptop and uploaded it
[08:28] <maxb> Well, we need to include maverick, certainly
[08:28] <poolie> i might see about running it somewhere more central
[08:28] <poolie> let's say roughly daily for now
[08:29] <vila> poolie: daily is fine by me to start with but if we can target hourly it will be better in the long run
[08:29] <GaryvdM_work> Hi poolie, maxb, mgz!
[08:29] <maxb> Lucid is going to need a SRU sooner or later to clear up those pesky references to the LP beta API that got left in
[08:29] <maxb> Because the LP beta API is supposed to expire on the death of Karmic
[08:30] <vila> maxb: sure, I'm forgetting lucid, but I'd like maverick first
[08:30] <vila> meh
[08:30] <maxb> (i.e. in three months)
[08:30] <vila> I'm *not* forgetting
[08:31] <vila> maxb: And I'm not *that* concerned about LP beta API, there are other clients and I suspect LP will have to take them into account even after we manage the lucid SRU
[08:31] <maxb> mm
[08:31] <maxb> https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/
[08:32] <maxb> Warning has been given
[08:32] <vila> maxb: I've landed the relevant patches on all releases for bzr, *we* are ready
[08:32] <poolie> vila, i'd just need to get the dependencies installed on devpad or whatever
[08:32] <poolie> at the moment it is staff-only
[08:32] <maxb> oh - neat
[08:32] <poolie> it might be better off public, if we omitted private bugs
[08:32] <maxb> right, byebye, I should go to the office now
[08:33] <vila> maxb: enjoy !
[08:33] <poolie> jelmer, are you back at work today or just saying hi?
[08:33]  * vila set mode +just_say_hi
[08:33] <vila> :)
[08:34] <jelmer> poolie: I'm back at work
[08:34] <poolie> vila, really all references to beta are gone? just recently?
[08:35] <poolie> welcome back; i wondered if you would help vila push our srus through?
[08:35] <poolie> also, i'm going to the developer membership board on monday evening utc to ask for ppu for bzr
[08:35] <poolie> maybe you should too?
[08:35] <vila> poolie: yes, but we may need to cut releases for 2.1 and 2.0,
[08:36] <vila> poolie: but 2.2 first
[08:36] <jelmer> poolie, vila: Sure, I'd be happy to
[08:37] <poolie> vila, bzr.2.2 in bzrlib/plugins/lp_api still has hardcoded urls for the beta service root
[08:37] <poolie> they probably shouldn't be hardcoded at all but they may predate lplib facilities to get them
[08:37] <vila> meh, for 2.2.3 ?
[08:37] <poolie> in 2.2 tip
[08:38] <vila> haaaaa beta not edge !
[08:38] <vila> maxb: ^ I was wrong
[08:38] <poolie> yes, there are two similar but different things
[08:38] <poolie> edge, and beta
[08:38] <poolie> edge is a bit more urgent
[08:39] <vila> edge is done
[08:40] <poolie> there's a separate bug about beta
[08:40] <vila> hmm, and I suspect we have no tests about whether we use 1.0 supported features :-/
[08:40] <poolie> hm
[08:41] <poolie> i don't think we have any tests about interaction with lp
[08:41] <poolie> which would be the main way to catch it

[08:41] <poolie> in theory you can statically check against the wadl, but not so easily in python, or with the approach lplib takes
[08:43] <vila> poolie: The more I think about it, the more I feel the launchpad plugin should not be in core but part of launchpad itself
[08:44] <vila> poolie: this way we could stop worrying about 1) testing it properly 2) being compatible with launchpad
[08:46] <vila> poolie: we will still package it in our installers and other packagers should be warned to do it too if/when we switch
[08:48] <poolie> mm
[08:48] <poolie> we still need to work out how to test it
[08:48] <poolie> but it does create some special cases by being in the tree and yet a plugin
[08:49] <poolie> i would probably test it by having an environment variable giving the service root to test against
[08:49] <poolie> and making the tests skip if that's not set
[08:50] <vila> poolie: so lp devs can test it properly ? Sounds fine to me and could even be set on babune if/when I manage to run a local lp vm
[08:51] <vila> but that's still significantly more work for me than for an lp dev
[08:54] <poolie> anyone who changes the plugin code, or things it relies on, needs to test it
[08:54] <poolie> if we use a variable, they can test it either locally or against staging
[08:54] <poolie> if it makes minimal assumptions about what will be in the instance
[09:06] <GaryvdM_work> vila: how long does it take for you to run the whole test suit?
[09:06] <vila> GaryvdM_work: < 10 minutes with ---parallel=fork
[09:07] <vila> poolie: meh, where are you :(
[09:07] <jelmer> vila: is there a bug # for the SRU?
[09:08] <GaryvdM_work> vila: Is there a way to run the test suit across multiple computers?
[09:08] <GaryvdM_work> --parallel=cluster :-)
[09:08] <vila> jelmer: bug #687653 will be a good candidate for 2.2.3
[09:09] <vila> GaryvdM_work: there is a plugin for that named ec2 something
[09:09] <GaryvdM_work> Oh - cool
[09:12] <vila> GaryvdM_work: without plugins it's ~5 minutes
[09:29] <GaryvdM_work> vila: cool - I have managed to reproduce
[09:38] <vila> GaryvdM_work: cool !
[10:36] <jelmer> vila: I've pushed a branch to lp:~jelmer/ubuntu/maverick/bzr/proposed-2.2.3
[10:37] <vila> jelmer: rock&roll
[10:38] <vila> branching
[10:45] <vila> jelmer: the test were run and passed during build right ?
[10:47] <jelmer> they should have been, but the package did build fairly quickly. Let me double check
[10:47] <vila> debian/rules contains a selftest invocation at least
[10:59] <vila> jelmer: regarding bug #704647 does  http://paste.ubuntu.com/559471/ looks correct to you ?
[11:00] <vila> jelmer: I needed it to lp-propose a bug branch
[11:00] <vila> jelmer: i.e. not related to  a packaging branch
[11:01] <vila> jelmer: and should I attribute the lag since your 'Let me double-check' as an indication that something went wrong ?
[11:03]  * jelmer looks
[11:04] <jelmer> vila: no, I'm waiting for the package to build
[11:04] <jelmer> vila: +1 on that patch
[11:04] <vila> ha good, not so fast then ;)
[11:05] <vila> jelmer: ok, I'll make a proposal for it then
[11:06] <vila> jelmer: I'll take your branch as a base to see if you added tests for it (unlikely as it seems to be closely tight to lp anyway :-/)
[11:06] <jelmer> vila: no, there aren't any tests for this code unfortunately :-/
[11:06] <vila> jelmer: np
[11:13] <vila> jelmer: https://code.launchpad.net/~vila/bzr/704647-lp-propose/+merge/47790
[11:14] <jelmer> vila: +1, thanks!
[11:14] <jelmer> heh, we voted Approve within 3 seconds of each other :-)
[11:14] <vila> jelmer: my pleasure
[11:14] <vila> hehe
[11:15] <vila> but I sent it to pqm first !
[11:16] <jelmer> :)
[14:04] <vila> GaryvdM_work: any news ?
[14:04] <vila> jelmer: any news ?
[14:04]  * vila sets mode +any_news
[14:05] <jelmer> vila: what kind of news are you looking for?
[14:06] <vila> jelmer: the test were run and passed during build right ?
[14:10] <vila> jelmer: I'm waiting for your feedback to nominate bug #687653 for SRU
[14:10] <vila> jelmer: or did I misunderstood something ?
[14:11] <jelmer> vila: yeah, that's a good one for the SRU
[14:11] <jelmer> garr, looks like I should enable swap on my laptop again.. it goes bonkers without it
[14:12] <vila> jelmer: I want to say that the tests passed during build, hence my question :)
[14:12] <vila> jelmer: buy a real desktop ;)
[14:19] <jelmer> vila: I've got one.. it's just not the machine I was running the tests on :-)
[14:20] <vila> oooh, you mean the build is still running ?
[14:50] <jelmer> vila: looks like there was actually one failing test
[14:50] <vila> which one ?
[14:50] <jelmer> vila: the packaging required 'test' to be specified in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS, it didn't enable them by default. I've fixed that now, too.
[14:51] <jelmer> vila: the test_locale issue we fixed last week. I'm cherrypicking the fix.
[14:51] <vila> jelmer: you rock, don't forget to fire a mp for lp:bzr/2.3 too
[15:02] <vila> good morning jam !
[15:05] <jelmer> hi John!
[15:19] <jam> hi vila
[15:19] <jam> and jelmer
[15:44] <jam> Peng: if you're around, I had a loggerhead Q for you
[16:03] <exarkun> http://buildbot.twistedmatrix.com/builders/lucid32-py2.6-select/builds/513/steps/bzr/logs/stdio
[16:03] <exarkun> I dunno if that's the same basic problem as https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/701940 or not.  It happened in the same place under (one supposes) roughly the same circumstances.
[16:04] <exarkun> It looks kind of similar, in that the error seems to be about a missing .pack file.  But it's not reported /exactly/ the same way.
[16:04] <jelmer> bug 701940
[16:20] <vila> exarkun: what bzr version are you using, this bug is fixed in 2.2.3 (released), 2.3.0 (unreleased) and trunk
[16:21] <exarkun> vila: I'm using 2.2.3
[16:22] <exarkun> The one packaged for lucid in http://ppa.launchpad.net/bzr/ubuntu/
[16:23] <vila> that's bad :( File a new bug mentioning 701940
[16:23] <exarkun> okay, will do
[16:24] <vila> IIUI, issuinga 'bzr pack' locally should work around the problem
[16:25] <vila> the weird thing is that it occurs on a buildbot instance which should do commits by itself, only pulls no ? Ha, wait, there may be concurrent pulls there..
[16:25] <vila> s/issuinga/issuing a/
[16:25] <vila> s/should do/shouldn't do/
[16:26] <exarkun> vila: Yes, it is concurrent.
[16:27] <vila> exarkun: 'bzr pack' during happy hours :-}
[16:27] <vila> and definitely file a bug
[16:28] <vila> exarkun: no-on is pushing there with a different bzr version right ?
[16:28] <exarkun> right
[16:28] <exarkun> it's only pulls
[16:37] <vila> exarkun: so forcing 'bzr pack' should reduce the occurrence of the bug
[16:38] <exarkun> vila: Once?  Once in a while?  Before any pull?
[16:38] <vila> exarkun: well, depends on how often it occurs, *between* the pulls if there is such a time slice
[16:39] <exarkun> This is the first time I've seen it happen, over probably about a month of operation.
[16:39] <exarkun> But that probably just means a hidden variable suddenly changed and the probability when from ~0% to ~100%
[16:40] <vila> or two pulls were identical ?
[16:40] <exarkun> They're probably usually identical, I guess
[16:41] <jelmer> that's what the other bug was related to, too
[16:41] <exarkun> There's two builders on the machine using a shared repository
[16:41] <exarkun> So when a build is triggered they both probably try to pull exactly the same thing into it
[16:41] <vila> a more drastic workaround would be to use one shared repo by builder until the bug is fixed :-/
[16:42] <exarkun> if it turns out to happen with much frequency, I'll probably do that
[16:42] <exarkun> if not, I'd rather leave it in this configuration and keep reporting bugs :p
[16:42] <exarkun> someday it will have to work right, right?
[16:42] <vila> exarkun: that's more valuable for us :) Yeah, definitely
[16:43] <vila> mention that in the bug too (2 builders probably pulling the same revisions) that may help
[16:43] <exarkun> okay
[16:50] <exarkun> vila: 'bzr pack' doesn't look like it can deal with the state the repository is in now, though
[16:50] <exarkun> Maybe you didn't mean that it would fix the state, just that it would help after I manually fix the state
[16:50] <vila> yup
[16:51] <vila> exarkun: do you need help to fix the state ?
[16:53] <exarkun> I think it's fixed, I moved the .pack from obsolete_packs into packs and the other files into indices
[16:53] <exarkun> And then 'bzr pack' worked
[16:53] <vila> perfect thne
[16:53] <exarkun> and filed bug 709349
[16:54] <vila> oh ! didn't link the nick and the lp login name :)
[16:57] <exarkun> :)
[17:09] <vila> jelmer: can I nominate the bug for the sru now ?
[17:19] <jelmer> vila: tests *still* running
[17:19] <vila> jelmer: oh my...
[17:20] <vila> . o O (Who said "a laptop is good enough for bzr dev" :-)
[17:25] <jelmer> hehe
[17:26] <jelmer> vila: it's passed
[17:26] <jelmer> vila: ... and I've pushed
[17:27] <vila> cool, thanks a lot, I should really do this myself, I'll look at your branch anyway
[17:39] <maxb> My laptop is good enough for bzr dev :-)
[17:40] <jelmer> argh, python 2.7 has broken bzrtools
[17:40] <jelmer> "ReadError: empty header" from bzrtools
[17:40] <jelmer> 'evening max
[17:44] <maxb> jelmer: yeah, I think I filed that bug already
[17:44] <maxb> bug 708268
[17:49] <kire> any ideas if bzr 2.3 will get to lenny backports (I am currently unable to install a decent ubuntu release on my server)?
[17:50] <jelmer> kire: please request a backport using the normal channels
[17:50] <kire> okay
[17:56] <maxb> kire: The standard debian backports rules prevent it being updated until squeeze releases and testing thaws
[17:59] <vila> Soo, I have a jubany VM, with a first package tracking its depedencies (ouch, based on hardy so bzr-2.1.1 so far)
[17:59] <jelmer> maxb: of course, squeeze should be out soon. before 2.3 hopefully (or is that too hopeful?)
[17:59] <maxb> I tend to the cautious where Debian stable is concerned
[18:01] <vila> maxb: by the way, bug #687653 has been nominated for the 2.2.3 sru, thanks to jelmer providing a branch
[18:01] <jelmer> abentley: hi
[18:02] <vila> I wasn't able to create to nominate for maverick, some weird lp backtrace about not being owner and as such lacking permissions
[18:02] <vila> s/to create//
[18:02] <abentley> jelmer, hi.
[18:03] <jelmer> abentley: bzrtools' tests/upstream_import.py has some strange code that appends more data to a tarfile that is already present
[18:03] <jelmer> (around line 125)
[18:04] <abentley> jelmer, is this related to the 2.7 incompatibility?
[18:04] <jelmer> abentley: Removing that code unbreaks bzrtools' tests on python2.7, but I wonder why it's there in the first place.
[18:04] <kire> maxb, thanks (and of course i meant 2.2.3, not 2.3 but my question is answered anyway :))
[18:04] <jelmer> abentley: yep
[18:05] <abentley> jelmer, I don't know the answer right away, and I'm taking the rest of the day off for a trip.  I'll look into it, though.
[18:05] <jelmer> abentley: thanks, no hurry
[18:14] <vila> Oh, for the record, the vm use a 32GB HDD but the package importer currently uses ~90GB. Most of it being logs, debug files and maybe some working trees that could be re-created
[22:16] <Peng> jam: Obviously, i wasn't around. :P Feel free to ask me anything, but I may or may not know the answer.
[22:17] <jam> Peng: did you see the discussion about the launchpad team taking stewardship for loggerhead?
[22:17] <jam> (I think most of the *discussion* took place on launchpad-dev, but some summary stuff showed up on bazaar@)
[22:18] <Peng> jam: No. I've been doing an even worse job reading my email than following bzr/lh/lp. :P
[22:18] <Peng> I think someone mentioned it here a week ago, though?
[22:19] <jam> Peng: anyway, Launchpad is trying to take more direct responsibility for code they rely on, loggerhead being one of those things
[22:19] <jam> at the same time, loggerhead "trunk" is not 100% ready to be just deployed on launchpad
[22:19] <jam> so they wanted to move it 'to the side' as a future-work branch
[22:19] <jam> I didn't know how much that would specifically affect you, since you've run some bleeding edge loggerhead stuff
[22:20] <Peng> Ergh, I'm not awake yet... And like I said, I've fallen out of bzr/lh/lp.
[22:21] <Peng> Why isn't LH trunk usable for LP? Because it's, well, a not-always-stable trunk branch?
[22:22] <Peng> jam: Thanks for the heads-up. I'll dig into the list archives today.
[22:24] <jam> Peng: not-always-stable, and without tweaking the launchpad side of things, history-db is an initial perf regression
[22:25] <jam> (once caches are filled, it is generally a big win, but the first load is slower than the existing code)
[22:27] <jam> Peng: looking at it, the launchpad branch of loggerhead also has some site-specific customization. But the "launchpad code team wants to start with a stable base" is the big thing they want to move trunk to the side for
[22:27] <jam> I've been poking at it a bit, because I'd really like to see my code deployed
[22:27] <jam> and I've been given some leeway to push on that
[22:29] <Peng> ISTM, even if the LP folks mangle trunk for a while, I could just pull future, no?
[22:30] <Peng> This is encouraging me to finally update LH, which I haven't done in a while, so I'll feel like I really deserve to have input on this. :P


[16:57] <alan_g[m]> Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/d39bdee944f9717733f513af9a1a6fcb178a9afa>)
[21:57] <mattkae[m]> Today 🏄
[21:57] <mattkae[m]> - Did half of the HR trainings in the morning
[21:57] <mattkae[m]> - Met with Alan to discuss last week + work for this sprint
[21:57] <mattkae[m]> - Started working on this ticket: https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2629. Figured out what is happening here and why this is a bit tricky, but I see a pretty solid solution on the horizon that I am in the middle of implementing. We'll see how it holds up tomorrow