[08:05] <diplo> Morning
[08:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning
[08:44] <daubers> 3Morning
[09:02] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks!  Or a plague of locusts be upon you or something
[09:51] <Laney> that'll be a timelapse at the end of the day
[09:52] <Laney> it's one of those magic trees :D
[09:52] <popey> magic?
[09:52] <Laney> like http://www.instructables.com/id/Grow-your-own-Magic-Crystal-Tree-or-any-other-sha/
[09:52] <popey> i have a "magic" meerkat round here somewhere
[09:52] <popey> oh haha
[09:52] <popey> like the stupid bird one I did recently
[09:52] <Laney> although not home made (that's a cool idea)
[09:52] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:52] <czajkowski> oh a laney
[09:53] <czajkowski> welcome back Laney
[09:53] <Laney> ello
[09:53] <Laney> getting up early today has hurt me
[09:55] <czajkowski> Laney: have you put away the christmas jumper?
[09:55] <Laney> I got a new one :D
[09:57] <czajkowski> dpnt put it in the washing machine :)
[09:57] <Laney> this one can be washed
[09:57] <Laney> it's not 100% wool ... ¬_¬
[09:58] <Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/jumper.jpg
[09:58] <Laney> ignore the weird face
[09:59] <czajkowski> heh
[09:59] <czajkowski> Nice jumper
[09:59] <diplo> Laney: That is awful! :)
[10:00] <popey> nice face ☺
[10:00] <Laney> >:|
[10:01] <Laney> I found out the pattern is called "fair isle"
[10:01] <Laney> so now I know what to look for to buy LOADS MORE
[10:02] <Laney> these left handed pens feel weird
[10:09] <mungojerry> left handed pen?
[10:10] <diplo> What does your better half think of them Laney ?
[10:10] <Laney> she gets me them
[10:10] <Laney> well, this one was from her parents actually
[10:11] <Laney> so I think it's a seal of approval :P
[10:13] <diplo> Oh dear....
[10:13] <diplo> :P
[10:19] <diplo> BigRedS: Did you have any luck with that app for android ?
[10:20] <BigRedS> I found something that claimed to do it, and have installed it, but haven't tested it yet
[10:20] <BigRedS> can't remember off the top of my head what it was, though :)
[10:20] <BigRedS> 'Setting Profiles Lite'
[10:22] <diplo> I'll let you test and let me know
[10:22] <diplo> :P
[10:22] <diplo> I'm very limited for space, really must try the hack mungo or someone in here tried expanding fs to sd card
[10:23] <mungojerry> yes that was me
[10:24] <mungojerry> brought new life to my phone
[10:25] <diplo> Will try soon
[10:25] <diplo> Wasn't sure if it was you so didn't want to highlight :P
[10:25] <mungojerry> somehow i've nearly used the extra 100mb i added :S
[10:27] <diplo> My sd card, say once amonth seems to unmount, what damage would that do to the phone ?
[10:28] <dwatkins> Is this 'Setting Profiles Lite', mungojerry, or just moving apps to the SD card?
[10:28] <BigRedS> I've tried app2sd which seems to have had no ill effect on the apps
[10:29] <mungojerry> it's S2E where you partition your SD card as SD-ext and your phone treats it has proper internal storage
[10:29] <dwatkins> Cyanogenmod has a built-in option to move an app to the SD card, I use it a lot to save internal space
[10:29] <mungojerry> app2sd still keeps filling up /data
[10:29] <mungojerry> the only proper fix is s2e ,
[10:30] <mungojerry> the only downside is seems to use a bit more battery, probably sd card gets spun down more often in normal use
[10:30] <diplo> dwatkins: yeah, I still don't have enough space, that's why I like mungojerry option
[10:30] <diplo> Must get off my arse :)
[10:31] <mungojerry> i wrote some instructions
[10:31] <mungojerry> did i send them to you?
[10:32] <diplo> Wrote some on here a while ago, but I didn't save them off :)
[10:32] <diplo> Was going to google s2e when I was ready
[10:34] <BigRedS> diplo: when you say it unmounts is that pure software? I keep having the SD card physically eject on my galaxy S2
[10:34] <BigRedS> which I suspect is the cause of it dying the other week
[10:40] <diplo> Software based yeah, my wildfire is all encased
[10:40] <diplo> Reboot the phone and it's fine
[10:42] <mungojerry> is anyone good at long words? i'm trying to think of a word and it's annoying me
[10:43] <mungojerry> it's a slightly obscure one, but my google-fu is failing me
[10:44] <popey> !ask
[10:44] <popey> ☺
[10:45] <mungojerry> :P
[10:46] <mungojerry> i was getting to it, but someone came to my desk
[10:46] <mungojerry> it's a word (long) that describes the radio5 type attitude of giving equal credence to views of a professor who has researched the subject for years, and a binman who has just phoned up while doing his rounds
[10:48] <popey> happy new year aptanet
[10:48] <popey> "balance" ☺
[10:49] <popey> sounds like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_man_on_the_Clapham_omnibus
[10:50] <mungojerry> its a long word like postsupralapsarian
[10:50] <aptanet> likewise popey  -  scary, I tried to put an @ before your nick then!!
[10:50] <popey> hah
[10:52] <Laney> beautiful south ♥
[10:52] <mungojerry> popey, got it
[10:52] <mungojerry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracrepidarianism
[10:53] <popey> blimey
[10:53] <mungojerry> its a useful word
[11:04] <mungojerry> the other word for the day is Zugzwang
[11:04] <popey> Numberwang™
[11:04] <davmor2> morning all
[11:30] <neuro> Wordwang!
[11:37] <mungojerry> how can i get weechat working on the command line with ssl?
[11:44] <dwatkins> I'd almost forgotten that IRC does SSL.
[11:44] <mungojerry> irc: cannot connect with SSL because WeeChat was                            | not built with GnuTLS support
[11:44] <mungojerry> meh, answers my que
[11:44] <mungojerry> this is not for freenode
[11:44] <dwatkins> ah ok
[11:45] <dwatkins> I'll just paste the link I was reading in case anyone else is curious: http://www.weechat.org/files/doc/devel/weechat_user.en.html
[11:50] <mungojerry> hmm irssi on these RH boxes doesn't seem to do it either
[11:50] <mungojerry> was trying to move to screen on an ssh host instead of using a bouncer
[11:52] <czajkowski> screen + irssi = win!
[11:53] <mungojerry> czajkowski, i'm not used to irssi, how do i do a simple one liner to connect?
[11:53] <kvarley> czajkowski: +1
[11:54] <mungojerry> on weechat i can do weechat-curses irc://user:pass@server
[11:54] <BigRedS> mungojerry: rhel? ew
[11:54] <BigRedS>  /connect <server name>
[11:54] <czajkowski> mungojerry: /connect irc .whatever
[11:54] <mungojerry> user/pass?
[11:54] <czajkowski> then /j to #channelname
[11:54] <kvarley> mungojerry: http://askubuntu.com/questions/61549/how-do-i-configure-irssi
[11:55]  * kvarley recently switched using that guide and a few searches on how to detach/reattach
[11:56] <czajkowski>  ctrl a+d to detach screen-r reattach
[12:00] <kvarley> Naming the sessions is useful too, I have a bunch of scripts on my pi to create a named session for irc, etc
[12:01] <kvarley> czajkowski: Is there any way for the terminal window to notify me when somebody mentions my name in chat though? That's one thing it's missing.
[12:02] <mungojerry> and does irssi have colours?
[12:02] <czajkowski> kvarley: yes highlight
[12:03] <kvarley> mungojerry: Yes, but you have to configure them yourself AFAIK
[12:03] <mungojerry> :(
[12:03] <czajkowski> mungojerry: I'm sure it does I dont really bother about them
[12:03] <mungojerry> weechat seems superior
[12:03] <czajkowski> name changes are highlighted yellow for me
[12:03] <AlanBell> you need more plugins mungojerry
[12:03] <kvarley> mungojerry: I'm sure people will have posted their own colour configs online tho
[12:03] <mungojerry> how to switch between channels ?
[12:04] <AlanBell> nickcolor.pl does colours
[12:04] <AlanBell> alt+left/right
[12:04] <kvarley> czajkowski: Ah yeah. I meant is there anyway for the window to take focus when my name is mentioned or something along those lines. It's the only thing I miss about Pidgin.
[12:04] <mungojerry> thanks
[12:04] <dwatkins> wow, I never knew about alt+left/right, thanks AlanBell :)
[12:04] <czajkowski> kvarley: god no!
[12:04] <czajkowski> :)
[12:05] <czajkowski> or ctrl p or n is handy
[12:05] <AlanBell> adv_windowlist.pl mouse.pl chanact.pl hilightwin.pl are all good things too
[12:05] <mungojerry> i want coloured nicks
[12:05] <czajkowski> but I;ve all my windows aliased so alt t goes to a spefic channel as does alt q,s,d,f,etc
[12:05] <czajkowski> mungojerry: I'm sure there is a plugin
[12:06] <mungojerry> yeah will have a look over lunch cheers guys
[12:06] <AlanBell> scriptassist.pl is a thing that you should install first then you can easily install other scripts
[12:07] <AlanBell> http://scripts.irssi.org/ is where they all come from
[12:08] <mungojerry> how to apply it please AlanBell ?
[12:08] <mungojerry> ah, i see top of that page
[12:11] <mungojerry> ok one more pleas..
[12:11] <mungojerry> how to scroll up?
[12:11] <AlanBell> page up or mousewheel if you have mouse.pl
[12:11] <mungojerry> it scrolls my command history
[12:12] <kvarley> czajkowski: Found this - https://code.google.com/p/irssi-libnotify/wiki/MainPage - could be interesting :)
[12:12] <AlanBell> oh, move it about or wait a few seconds until the mouse cursor changes to a pointer rather than an I beam
[12:14] <mungojerry> can't replicate that behaviour, stange
[12:15] <mungojerry> oh silly me, page up works, (mouse wheel not)
[12:19] <solarcloud_3scrn> AlanBell, Was there a note in with the envelope or did you just see the paper-money-note ??
[12:24] <AlanBell> solarcloud_3scrn: got the note as well, thanks
[12:31] <solarcloud_3scrn> Oh, OK . brilliant .. thought I'd Deadmau5'd again , thanks-again !!
[12:32] <kvarley>  I get some sort of DBus error message when loading a script in irssi. Any ideas? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1495216/
[12:32] <kvarley> The script I'm loading is here https://irssi-libnotify.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/notify.pl
[12:33] <mungojerry> hello mungbean
[12:40] <kvarley> Nvm, it was a dependency issue :)
[12:48] <kvarley> Doing "/SET notify_remote <IP_ADDRESS>" in IRSSI results in " Unknown setting notify_remote
[12:56] <popey> hmm, i'd like notifications too
[12:56] <popey> but my irssi is on a remove vps
[13:00] <czajkowski> kvarley: there is an #irssi channel on freenode btw
[13:00] <marxjohnson> afternoon
[13:01] <popey> hello marxjohnson
[13:05] <mungbean> dont you love it when you are called customer services and after 5 mins of ringing you get passed to a message that says sorry, call back later...dead line
[13:28] <kvarley> popey: It forwards them via dbus a libnotify so you can do it to a remote client :)
[13:30] <kvarley> czajkowski: Thanks, asked there :)
[13:30] <czajkowski> kvarley: np
[13:36] <mungbean> quick irssi question again, if i load a script e.g. nicklist, when does it take effect?
[13:46] <dwatkins> when people write things
[13:46] <dwatkins> i.e. previous lines aren't affected
[13:49] <mungbean> nicklist is supposed to create a userlist on the RHS though
[13:49] <dwatkins> oh sorry, I read that as nick_color.pl, my bad
[13:50] <kvarley> popey: Couldn't get notfy.pl to play nice with irssi. Using this method instead http://jonathanbeluch.com/blog/2011/03/remote-notify-irssi-screen/ it works pretty well :)
[13:52] <mungbean> got it, /nicklist screen
[14:27] <bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
[14:28] <kvarley> \o bigcalm
[14:30] <popey> yo
[14:32] <bigcalm> Ooo, a RPi user. Is your password still raspberry? ;)
[14:32] <bigcalm> popey: what's new?
[14:33] <popey> uhhhm
[14:33] <czajkowski> hows the cat
[14:33] <czajkowski> we've not had caturday in a while
[14:34] <bigcalm> I seriously need a UI designer for my photo booth app. It looks horrible right now
[14:34] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I have an URL for you!
[14:34] <czajkowski> oh cool
[14:35] <bigcalm> Which my brain keeps reading as 'regretting' some how
[14:36] <popey> I'll post some caturday pics tomorrow ☺
[14:39] <dwatkins> bigcalm: that makes me wonder how long it will be until someone starts finding Raspberry Pi boxes connected to the internets and hacking into them....
[14:40] <bigcalm> dwatkins: 'hacking' in the same sense as accessing somebody's voice mail account because they haven't changed the default password
[14:52] <dwatkins> bigcalm: yes, although if I had a RPi on my network and someone could log in to it, they would then be potentially able to access my other computers more easily
[14:53] <dwatkins> (see 'total cost of pwnership' or whatever that confusingly-titled document was about the damage a linux machine can do compared to the damage a windows machine can do if it's compromised)
[14:55] <dwatkins> http://www.immunitysec.com/resources-papers.shtml - August 12, 2004 Dave Aitel - Microsoft Windows, a lower Total Cost of Ownership (note the zero in the word '0wnership')
[15:17] <Laney> I think my magic tree timelapse is going to be boring
[15:17] <Laney> still doesn't look magic :(
[15:17] <brobostigon> :(
[15:27] <bashrc> I assume that folks have seen this http://youtu.be/sLtcj7FdIYA
[15:29] <SuperMatt> not yet
[15:29] <bashrc> it's a nice demo
[15:29] <bashrc> definitely looks like something which would sell
[15:29] <SuperMatt> you say that, but lots of people seem to think that mobile manufactures won't buy in to it
[15:30] <bashrc> why not?
[15:30] <SuperMatt> because they already have the choice between android and windows phone
[15:30] <SuperMatt> and symbian
[15:30] <SuperMatt> and now tizen, or whatevs
[15:31] <bashrc> I think the average person who is not obsessed with operating systems will look at this and just think it's Android.  The screen transitions are very similar.
[15:31] <SuperMatt> oh yes
[15:33] <bashrc> But even if manufacturers don't like it (and I don't see why they wouldn't) he says in the video that it will be possible to unstall the Ubuntu phone OS onto existing Android phones.
[15:33] <SuperMatt> one thing that would be nice of Upho: dial boot
[15:33] <bashrc> *install
[15:35] <SuperMatt> *dual
[15:35] <SuperMatt> bashrc: the thing is that you need to root the phone before you can install ubuntu
[15:36] <SuperMatt> I have an s3, and I belive that samsung have locked it down quite hard
[15:36] <bashrc> yes, but I think that's common
[15:37] <bashrc> I guess that's a question of judicious purchasing.  If you buy a device knowing that you won't be able to have root access on it then I suppose that you deserve to live in a digital prison.
[15:37] <SuperMatt> well, when I bought the s3 it was because it was the best, not because I knew ubuntu phone was coming
[15:38] <bashrc> which goes back to the Stallman quote about "perceived convenience"
[15:38] <kvarley> SuperMatt: Samsung may try to lock it down but there are countless guides on how to unlock it.
[15:39] <bashrc> yes that does seem to be the case
[15:39] <popey> 15:29:48 < SuperMatt> you say that, but lots of people seem to think that mobile manufactures won't buy in to it
[15:39] <popey> not in our experience
[15:39] <popey> we've had very positive feedback from handset manufacturers
[15:39] <SuperMatt> oh sweet
[15:39] <SuperMatt> I should of course stop reading slashdot
[15:40] <bashrc> ;-)
[15:40] <bigcalm> I'm surprised that people still do read /.
[15:40] <popey> ditto
[15:40] <mungbean> popey: how does launcher work in ladscape mode
[15:41] <popey> dunno, not turned one sideways ☺
[15:41] <mungbean> never seen a clip yet of it sideways
[15:41] <mungbean> or making a phone call
[15:42] <bashrc> maybe it doesn't have a landscape mode...yet
[15:42] <SuperMatt> /. is ok for getting some news articles, but the problem is that the comments are akin to those on the daily mail website
[15:43] <bashrc> the daily fail
[15:43] <SuperMatt> mostly misinformed or out of date
[15:44] <popey> mungbean: when they got the phone stack working, they immediately called Jane Silber, the CEO, from across the office. Was a happy day ☺
[15:46] <SuperMatt> nice!
[15:46] <SuperMatt> how long has it been in development for?
[15:47] <SuperMatt> also: what does the phone stack stuff mean for desktops? if we plug in a sim card, will we be able to make calls?
[15:47] <SuperMatt> no, of course not
[15:47] <SuperMatt> don't be so stupid matthew
[15:47] <Laney> https://twitter.com/avoidcomments
[15:48] <dwatkins> is the Ubuntu phone kernel the 'standard' linux kernel, Android or something else?
[15:48] <SuperMatt> Laney: awesome!
[15:49] <SuperMatt> though I do tend to read anything ubuntu related on /. to see just how malinformed people are
[15:49] <SuperMatt> I get a bit of a kick out of it
[15:49] <bashrc> "The problem with internet comments is that you can never really know who's saying them." -- Winston Churchill
[15:49] <mungbean> comments from dinotards on ubuntu realted slashdot articles are funny
[15:50] <popey> SuperMatt: 2 years or so
[15:50] <SuperMatt> "I USED UNITY BACK WHEN IT WAS IN DAPPER AND IT WAS RUBBISH THEN SO I HAVEN'T TRIED IT SINCE"
[15:50] <bashrc> haters gonna hate
[15:50] <SuperMatt> popey: has it been a constant thing, or has it ramped up recently?
[15:51] <popey> ramped up for CES
[15:51] <mungbean> my mouse keeps stopping working, requiring reseating in usb slot..weird
[15:51] <dwatkins> "The probably with making up quotes is that anyone can do it" - Margaret Thatcher
[15:51] <mungbean> slashdot commenters are so ultracrepidarian :D
[15:52] <bashrc> that's a new word
[15:53] <bashrc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracrepidarianism
[15:54] <popey> its mungbean's word of the day
[15:56] <bigcalm> It's what happens to me when I get drunk
[15:56] <bigcalm> I try not to get too drunk for this sort of reason
[15:57] <mungbean> lol
[16:02] <SuperMatt> oh fedora, why do you keep slipping?
[16:03] <bigcalm> SuperMatt: head not big enough?
[16:03] <SuperMatt> hah
[16:03] <SuperMatt> no, it's their new bloody installer
[16:04] <SuperMatt> Even when ubuntu changed theirs, it didn't make a differnce to the release date
[16:05] <davmor2> mungbean: the thoughts count for floccinaucinihilipilification
[16:08] <mungbean> we need a bot which automatically explains the meaning of long words
[16:08] <SuperMatt> anything over 12 characters?
[16:09] <davmor2> this is the biggest real word I know to pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis
[16:09] <SuperMatt> better make it 15 characters as automatically is 13 :P
[16:11] <dwatkins> floccinaucinihilipilification
[17:08] <ubuntubhoy> Got hold of a cheapo USB 2 data link cable, and wan't to transfer a shitload of data from a Ubuntu install to a Win8 machine, is there any easy way to use this thing ?
[17:17] <bigcalm> !ohmy | ubuntubhoy
[17:18] <solarcloud_3scrn> ubuntuboy Errata . Use shedload next time.
[17:18] <davmor2> http://t.co/MB7fYmBn muhahahaha
[17:18] <bigcalm> ubuntubhoy: quickest way would be to take the HDD out of the Windows machine and hook it up to the Ubuntu one. Mount it there and copy your load
[17:21] <solarcloud_3scrn> davmor2, I thought mwahahaha or variants was saved for !Batman posts although the addition of a 'u' would indicate a #hashtag logg.
[17:22] <davmor2> solarcloud_3scrn: I think a big cat killing a snowman is evil so it gets an evil laugh, his next plan is to take over the world
[17:27] <solarcloud_3scrn> .. I don't think his hund legs will last the arthritis. davmor2, All cats come from a gemini Siaese cat called Congress.
[17:27] <solarcloud_3scrn> **Siamese
[17:27] <ubuntubhoy> bigcalm: laptop's, and no external HDD caddy :(
[17:28] <davmor2> ubuntubhoy: would a simply crossover cable not of been much cheaper?
[17:29] <ubuntubhoy> had the data cable lying around
[17:29] <ubuntubhoy> ethernet cable might be better though
[19:49] <Azelphur> well, that was unexpected
[19:49] <locodir-user> hello ?
[19:49] <Azelphur> I just announced to my gaming community that my upstream advertiser was forcing us to play 18 second adverts, this was met with a 100% positive response o.O
[19:49] <Azelphur> locodir-user: hi
[19:49] <locodir-user> i got a question
[19:50] <locodir-user> i am new to ubuntu
[19:50] <Azelphur> !ask | locodir-user
[19:50] <locodir-user> ok
[19:50] <ali1234> Azelphur: i found this option in tf2 "show text only motd" and i haven't seen an advert on any server since. what's that all about?
[19:50] <Azelphur> ali1234: does what it says on the tin
[19:50] <davmor2> locodir-user: welcome ask away
[19:51] <ali1234> so um, why does anyone even bother putting ads on there?
[19:51] <Azelphur> ali1234: vast majority of users don't press that button, servers cost money.
[19:51] <ali1234> really?
[19:51] <locodir-user> i want to install the driver for my videocard (gtx610m laptop) i know a bit how the terminal works
[19:51] <Azelphur> ali1234: yep
[19:51] <Azelphur> locodir-user: 12.10?
[19:51] <locodir-user> no downgraded to 12.04
[19:52] <locodir-user> tought it was easier
[19:52] <Azelphur> ubuntu button > hardware drivers
[19:52] <Azelphur> press button receive driver
[19:52] <locodir-user> i have it in dutch language
[19:53] <Azelphur> !nl | locodir-user
[19:53] <locodir-user> haha
[19:53] <davmor2> locodir-user: look for jockey-gtk is the apps name you may still find that
[19:54] <Azelphur> I scared him off :P
[19:54] <davmor2> Azelphur: not surprising have you looked in a mirror lately ;)
[19:55] <Azelphur> Yea, a handsome man stared back at me xD
[19:55] <davmor2> Azelphur: Mirrors tend to be silver dude you were looking in a window :D
[19:55] <Azelphur> lol
[20:07] <davmor2> well ladies and gentlefolk it is that time of day have a great weekend everyone
[20:56] <ali1234> ok, how do i report bugs on the ubuntu phone preview sdk?
[21:00] <popey> ali1234: problems with the kit or qt5?
[21:00] <ali1234> yes, and problems with the instructions on the website
[21:01]  * popey finds out
[21:01] <popey> standby!
[21:07] <ali1234> why do we have to use qmlscene instead of qmlviewer?
[21:08] <ali1234> oh, they just renamed it in Qt5
[21:14] <ali1234> what's a gu?
[21:15] <AlanBell> resolution independent distance
[21:17] <AlanBell> ali1234: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/resolution-independence.html
[21:17] <ali1234> so it's like points, xcept different?
[21:18] <AlanBell> a bit, yeah
[21:18] <AlanBell> points are supposed to be a fraction of an inch and should know about dpi
[21:18] <AlanBell> but they are hardly ever right
[21:18] <ali1234> and not actually resolution independent :(
[21:18] <AlanBell> I don't think this claims to be size consistent across devices
[21:19] <ali1234> exactly
[21:19] <ali1234> so it isn't resolution independent
[21:19] <ali1234> it's just arbitrary
[21:19] <AlanBell> yes, it is a device appropriate unit of smallness
[21:19] <ali1234> yes. but not independent of resolution. it depends on resolution and also another thing
[21:20] <AlanBell> yeah, it is going to be smaller on a smartphone than on a laptop screen
[21:20] <ali1234> what does it do on a 7" tablet?
[21:20] <ali1234> what about 10"?
[21:20] <AlanBell> actually I am not sure it is going to be smaller on a smartphone
[21:21] <AlanBell> I dunno, it doesn't look massively well thought out does it.
[21:21] <ali1234> no
[21:21] <ali1234> it looks like it has all the problems of using pixels and all the problems of using points combined into one system
[21:22] <AlanBell> yes
[21:22] <ali1234> thanks, but no thanks. i will just use pixels
[21:22] <ali1234> as a bonus that means my app won't rely on ubuntu components, thus it will run on other mobiles as well
[21:24] <AlanBell> if I was going to do such a unit I would define it as 1/1024 of the longest dimension of the screen
[21:24] <AlanBell> or something like that
[21:24] <ali1234> well yu can trivially do that in qml anyway
[21:24] <ali1234> well, based on top level parent actually
[21:24] <ali1234> i dunno, maybe it's not so easy
[21:26] <AlanBell> "For example, if the destination size of the bitmap is 10 gu * 10 gu and the developer targets a Smart Phone (1 gu = 18 px) and a laptop (1 gu = 8 px) then he/she only needs to create a bitmap of 144 px * 144 px to support both devices."
[21:26] <AlanBell> erm. . .
[21:26] <AlanBell> someone is smoking the strong stuff there I think
[21:27] <AlanBell> 8*18 is indeed 144, but that means it gets upscaled to 180x180 on the smartphone and downscaled to 80x80 on the laptop, neither of which is a clean scale of 144px
[21:27] <ali1234> yeah
[21:28] <AlanBell> well when popey finds where the bugs go, that one will be added to the collection
[21:29] <ali1234> qml simply isn't meant to be cross platform anyway
[21:29] <ali1234> it's meant to be so easy you just make a different version of your interface for laptop, desktop, phone, tablet...
[21:30] <AlanBell> I expect that is the plan, I think the "One system for all platforms" thing is marketing
[21:31] <ali1234> can i use qt mobility stuff or is there a special ubuntu version of it?
[21:32] <AlanBell> pro tip http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/
[21:32] <einonm> AlanBell: If you were designing the perfect "One system for all platforms", you'd need different images in that case, or be happy to rely on intensive scaling in places anyway? Isn't there no easy way to fix that issue?
[21:34] <AlanBell> einonm: scaling images isn't a big deal, the problem is getting a fully responsive design that reflows and works with touch vs mouse/keyboard
[21:34] <ali1234> einonm: yeah exactly. you're supposed to use different images and different QML with all the backend in a C++ library
[21:34] <ali1234> also you are supposed to use vector graphics as much as possible :)
[21:37] <einonm> AlanBell: ah yes, like windows 8... :-/
[21:39] <AlanBell> haven't seen that yet
[21:42] <popey> seems the project doesn't have a bug tracker configured, might have to wait till monday, keep a note of the issues pls
[21:42] <AlanBell> ok
[21:43] <AlanBell> is the project separate to the documentation?
[21:49] <ali1234> AlanBell: that's the ubuntu stuff, but you'll need to use qml standard stuff too. some of which is in add on modules which may or may not be available
[21:51] <AlanBell> Captain Jack should not be lowering himself to panto http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20915946
[21:51] <ali1234> wat
[21:52] <ali1234> hmm QtMultimedia doesn't like ogg files
[21:58] <einonm> AlanBell: Because Captain Jack should be lowering himself to Ianto?
[21:58] <AlanBell> oooh clever :)
[21:58] <einonm> sorry.  Optional is a DSLR that works with gphoto2 (my Canon EOS 350D does) but not vital at this stage
[22:37] <popey> czajkowski: saw http://imgur.com/gallery/OWtoF and thought of you
[22:39] <czajkowski> popey: BOING!!!
[22:39] <czajkowski> so want a pug!
[22:40] <bigcalm> czajkowski: dress Jon as one good enough for now?
[22:42] <czajkowski> I think he might argue against that
[22:43] <bigcalm> I wonder if I can get Pug type costume bits to go with the photobooth ;)
[22:43] <czajkowski> nn folks :)
[22:44] <bigcalm> Toodles
[23:15] <AlanBell> anyone know what the HUD process is?
[23:15] <AlanBell> the thing that sits on dbus and is not the UI but is the thing that does the menu searching
[23:33] <AlanBell> ah, that is running but it isn't seeing any menus
[23:33] <popey> unity-panel-service running?
[23:34] <AlanBell> no, running in gnome-shell at the moment
[23:35] <AlanBell> I think the applications are not exporting their menu items to the dbusmenu or something
[23:35] <ali1234> well have you got the right environment variables set up so that all that stuff actually runs?
[23:36] <AlanBell> the hud service runs, but doesn't have any content
[23:36] <ali1234> like DESKTOP_SESSION and and one for dbus menu
[23:36] <AlanBell> gdbus call --session --dest com.canonical.hud --object-path /com/canonical/hud --method com.canonical.hud.StartQuery "file" 5
[23:36] <AlanBell> returns an empty result, but it does get an answer
[23:39] <ali1234> hmm
[23:39] <ali1234> qml item has properties scale and rotation
[23:41] <ali1234> LOL


[07:11] <anders> is there some way to make upstart verbose? trying to make it work on arch linux, but it's just doing nothing here atm
[07:11] <anders> i suppose i'll rtfm
[07:12] <anders> duh, --debug
[07:14] <anders> dang, seems like the arch scripts don't like that :)
[07:30] <anders> bleh, i give up (for now)
[14:32] <Keybuk> ...with invalid argument
[14:32] <Keybuk> BAD: wrong value for error.name, expected 'com.netsplit.Nih.IllegalValue' got 'org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply'
[14:32] <Keybuk> 	at tests/test_com.netsplit.Nih.Test.c:232 (test_str_to_int).
[14:32] <Keybuk> *sigh*
[16:05] <sadmac2> Keybuk: how's 0.5 comming?
[16:05] <sadmac2> :)
[16:07] <Keybuk> sadmac2: still battling D-Bus
[16:08] <sadmac2> Keybuk: ahh. Decided on flags or profiles yet?
[16:08] <Keybuk> no, not yet
[16:08] <Keybuk> that's a 0.5.x issue
[16:08] <Keybuk> 0.5.0 won't have either
[16:08] <Keybuk> likewise 0.5.0 won't have states
[16:10] <Keybuk> 0.5.0 will be largely complete from a service management point of view, so rc2 can be moved over
[16:10] <Keybuk> with more complex things coming throughout 0.5.x as we need them :-)
[16:11] <sadmac2> cool
[16:50] <Keybuk> right now, I'm still getting d-bus to play nicely
[19:28] <Keybuk> hurrah
[19:28]  * Keybuk has a valgrind suppressions file that covers most of libdbus now :)
[19:31] <ion_> :-)
[20:24] <sadmac2> Keybuk: what are you wrestling with right now wrt dbus?
[20:26] <Keybuk> sadmac2: just joining all the dots up
[20:27] <sadmac2> Keybuk: yes, dots were kind of a poorly thought out feature. In the last version they used triangles. It was much more structured.
[20:27] <Keybuk> heh
[20:27] <Keybuk> 2/3 of my dbus-related test suites now pass valgrind
[20:28] <Keybuk> which is good
[20:28] <Keybuk> though I'm convinced that two suppressions are dbus bugs
[20:28] <Keybuk> and they itch, and I'm going to end up investigating them :p
[20:28] <Keybuk> it doesn't look like it _quite_ cleans up the userdb cache properly in the case of shutdown()
[20:28] <Keybuk> which, admittedly, is only a concern for test suites ... but hey :p
[20:28] <sadmac2> s3nd p4tch3s
[20:31] <Keybuk> oh, patches already in bugzilla
[20:31] <sadmac2> sweet
[20:31] <Keybuk> I make sure of that :)
[20:32] <Keybuk> ==5778== Invalid read of size 8
[20:32] <Keybuk> ==5778==    at 0x4E3E05D: _dbus_connection_read_write_dispatch (dbus-connection.c:3414)
[20:32] <Keybuk> ==5778==    by 0x4E3E3E4: dbus_connection_read_write_dispatch (dbus-connection.c:3491)
[20:32] <Keybuk> ==5778==    by 0x404C56: test_bus_disconnected (test_control.c:384)
[20:32] <Keybuk> ==5778==    by 0x404EF0: main (test_control.c:422)
[20:32] <Keybuk> ==5778==  Address 0x542b880 is 8 bytes inside a block of size 256 free'd
[20:32] <Keybuk> *sigh*
[20:32] <Keybuk> this, I think, is my last one
[20:35] <Keybuk> that just looks like read_write_dispatch *NEVER* expects the spanish inquisition
[20:36] <Keybuk> I mean that it never expects to be used to dispatch the disconnected message ;)
[20:36] <Keybuk> which is a biiiit odd
[20:36] <Keybuk> missing ref I suspect
[20:37] <Keybuk> actually, since the docs explicitly say that it terminates when disconnected has been processed, it should damned well expect the last ref to go away :p
[20:40] <sadmac2> sweet
[20:40] <sadmac2> and the world is a better place. Open source makes me tingly
[20:44] <Keybuk> and patch uploaded
[20:45] <Keybuk> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=dbus&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&emailreporter1=1&emailtype1
[20:45] <Keybuk> =exact&email1=scott%40netsplit.com&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=
[20:46] <ion_> Pretty URL
[21:07] <sadmac2> my IRC client ate it
[21:07] <sadmac2> :(
[21:58] <sadmac2> Keybuk: looks like one is fixed already. That's not too bad a response rate


[07:22] <lotuspsychje> that was a quickfix :p
[07:23] <icey> lotuspsychje: indeed :)
[07:27] <nb-ben> ok I managed to boot without u-boot
[07:28] <nb-ben> that's pretty cool. saved me some suffering
[09:28] <DK2> i have a pxe installation with initrd.gz and linux file for the installation. the installation does not find the nic of the server. i have the source files for the driver but i dont know how to integrate that in my initrd.gz any good guides to that?
[10:21] <Jenshae> Hi all. I am getting very frustrated with ZFS at the moment. I made a RAIDZ (RAID 5) with 4x SSD drives. Every time that I reboot or shutdown and boot up, I get a different status. Now, "zpool status" shows all drives "ONLINE" and CKSUM = 0. However, sometimes they are all "DEGRADED" and yesterday I had one degraded and the rest online.
[10:22] <Jenshae> I have tried S.M.A.R.T. I have tried scrubbing and I have rebuilt the pool from scratch.
[10:22] <Jenshae> I don't know how to diagnose this further, to work out where the problem lies, particular disk, ZFS itself, the hard drive controller, BIOS or some sort of kernel problem.
[10:23] <Jenshae> Corruption is happening, "zpool status -v" listing the files, I go to them and I can't open them.
[10:25] <Jenshae> (I also checked that all the drive cables are firmly and fully plugged in)
[11:51] <Jenshae> Anyone got some terms I could search around to try and figure this out?
[12:06] <RoyK> Jenshae: is this native zfs or fuse-zfs?
[12:06] <RoyK> Jenshae: also, please pastebin zpool status -v
[12:06] <Jenshae> I don't know what fuse-zfs is.
[12:06] <RoyK> Jenshae: I've seen zfs finding errors the drive didn't know about (so-called "silent" errors)
[12:07] <RoyK> zfs-fuse, perhaps - anyway - that's zfs running under fuse, that is, in usermode. If you have the spl/zfs kernel modules, it's native
[12:08] <Jenshae> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/wK3nSVfMFX/
[12:18] <Jenshae> RoyK: Sorry, took awhile to sanitise it, most of my folders and file names are a bit too descriptive, so this is just a snippet https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/Yj4PHpTZbP/
[12:19] <RoyK> hm… that's wierd - too many errors on all four drives?
[12:19] <RoyK> which version of ubuntu and zfs/zpool is this?
[12:20] <Jenshae> Yeah, it is weird, some boot ups, all listed as "ONLINE" without "DEGRADED" against them, sometimes all drives are "DEGRADED" and only yesterday did I have a single drive result.
[12:20] <RoyK> weird, even
[12:21] <RoyK> how are these connected? standard sata from onboard controllers or something more fancy?
[12:21] <Jenshae> Ubuntu 18 ... what is the -v / -version, etc to get the ZFS version?
[12:21] <Jenshae> Standard board SATA, yes.
[12:21] <RoyK> probably --version
[12:21] <RoyK> I haven't worked with zfs for a while
[12:22] <RoyK> *in* a while
[12:22] <RoyK> damn
[12:22]  * RoyK complains about "bad language day"
[12:23] <Jenshae> zfsutils-linux is already the newest version (0.7.5-1ubuntu16.9).
[12:23] <Jenshae> I find that I get temporary brain damage and my typing goes to hell if I deprive myself of sleep.
[12:24] <Jenshae> Like, 3 hours sleep on day 1, 14 hours on day 2, 3 hours on day 3 but on the fourth day, still typing like I am malfunctioning.
[12:25] <Jenshae> (Have had one of those weeks, hence the slow responses and "like" twice in a sentence."
[12:25] <Jenshae> ... and a " instead of a ) ...
[12:26] <RoyK> https://xkcd.com/859/
[12:27] <Jenshae> Are you trying to cast a hex on me?! :o
[12:28] <Jenshae> What are these about? " vol2:<0x241ec> " I could restore the other files but I don't know how to manually fix what ever that is.
[12:29] <RoyK> hehe
[12:29] <RoyK> does it allow you to start a scrub?
[12:53] <Jenshae> scan: scrub in progress since Wed Jul  8 13:52:36 2020
[12:53] <Jenshae> 	2.13G scanned out of 593G at 545M/s, 0h18m to go
[12:53] <Jenshae> 	0B repaired, 0.36% done
[12:53] <Jenshae> Yes.
[12:55] <Jenshae> I am not too concerned about the data. I have backups. I just don't want to throw away money on a motherboard or drives a set of drives without knowing where the fault is and I am getting tired of restoring data while this problem persists.
[13:13] <RoyK> Jenshae: I can understand - it's rare to get errors on all drives at the same time
[13:14] <RoyK> Jenshae: btw, can you pastebin smart data from the drives?
[13:16] <Jenshae> RoyK: Is there a terminal interface for SMART? I can't copy out the GUI results.
[13:17] <RoyK> smartctl -a /dev/sdX | pastebinit
[13:17] <RoyK> that is - wait
[13:17] <RoyK> for dev in sd[abcd] ; do echo [13:17] <RoyK> for instance
[13:18] <RoyK> replace [abcd] with the real device names
[13:18] <Jenshae> Hmm ... "sudo: smartctl: command not found". I have Gnome Disks installed.
[13:18] <RoyK> apt install smartmontools
[13:19] <Jenshae> "sudo apt install msartmontools" I am so msart
[13:19] <RoyK> hehehe
[13:19] <Jenshae> Oh no, I am infected! M$-Art ...
[13:21] <RoyK> this has nothing to do with M$ ;)
[13:21] <Jenshae> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Smartmontools describes the three tests but doesn't say how to initiate one.
[13:22] <RoyK> smartctl -t short /dev/sdX
[13:23] <Jenshae> " smartctl --test=long /dev/sda /dev/sdb /dev/sdc /dev/sdbd " will work?
[13:23] <RoyK> smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdX (or smartctl -a /dev/sdX - it'll normally show progress as well)
[13:23] <RoyK> no, it doesn't take more than one argument, so better 'for dev in /dev/sd{a..d} ; do smartctl -t long $dev ; done
[13:24] <RoyK> '
[13:24] <RoyK> well, it takes several arguments, but only one drive, for some reason
[13:24] <Jenshae> " sudo smartctl --test=long /dev/sda && sudo smartctl --test=long /dev/sdb && sudo smartctl --test=long /dev/sdc && sudo smartctl --test=long /dev/sdd "
[13:24] <RoyK> btw, if you have /dev/sdbd, it means you have a *lot* of drives :D
[13:25] <Jenshae> *Flex*
[13:25] <RoyK> that also works, obviously, but I prefer a little for loop
[13:26] <RoyK> just remember that with &&, it will only run the next command (etc) if the first succeeds
[13:26] <Jenshae> "RoyK: btw, if you have /dev/sdbd, it means you have a *lot* of drives :D" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFk2_5RkwlA
[13:27] <RoyK> hehe
[13:28] <RoyK> linux starts off with sda, then sdb and so on until it reaches sdz and then starts over with sdaa, sdab etc, so if you have sdbd, it means you should have at least 55 drives
[14:05] <hallyn> what, vimoutliner package was removed in focal?
[14:15] <Jenshae> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/3ZZPDJCkxJ/ https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/9F9MRWT99c/ https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/3HhZtmGMrP/ https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/25zJRCVd8G/
[14:15] <Jenshae> RoyK: Results are in.
[14:17] <Jenshae> Extended tests, all passed, no failures shown.
[14:18] <RoyK> hm - those "unknown attributes" - I wonder if you can find out something more if you compile smartmontools from scratch
[14:18] <RoyK> no need to install it - just run it from the source dir
[14:18] <Jenshae> Got a cmd for that?
[14:19] <RoyK> Jenshae: https://github.com/smartmontools/smartmontools
[14:19] <RoyK> Jenshae: mkdir -p src/git
[14:19] <RoyK> cd src/git
[14:19] <RoyK> git clone https://github.com/smartmontools/smartmontools.git
[14:20] <RoyK> cd smartmontools/smartmontools/
[14:20] <RoyK> ./autogen.sh ; ./configure ; make
[14:22] <Jenshae> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/3HBKrX9JQp/
[14:24] <Jenshae> nvm, step by step.
[14:24] <RoyK> you may need some packages like the build-essential metapackage
[14:24] <Jenshae> It wouldn't "sudo ./autogen.sh" and needed "sudo sh ./autogen.sh" after that then each one with sudo in front of it.
[14:24] <RoyK> no need for sudo there
[14:25] <Jenshae> It didn't work without it. Done now. Command to run the compiled one?
[14:25] <RoyK> unless you ran 'sudo mkdir -p src/git'
[14:26] <RoyK> ./smartctl
[14:26] <RoyK> add a sudo in front of that and use the same parameters as last time
[14:27] <RoyK> looks like 6.6 is the one installed on my machine (debian buster 10) while the one from git is 7.2, so probably some new stuff there
[14:27] <RoyK> just check smartctl --version and ./smartctl --version
[14:28]  * Jenshae crosses fingers
[14:29] <Jenshae> See you again in 30+ minutes
[14:29] <Jenshae> Do you work with servers or do it as a hobby?
[14:29] <RoyK> a bit of both :D
[14:30] <RoyK> I've worked with IT and servers since around 1996
[14:30]  * Jenshae waves a feather duster around >;P
[14:30] <Jenshae> Actually, I started work in IT in 1998. IT cafe after school and weekends.
[14:31] <Jenshae> I haven't managed to get through my Linux+ manual yet. >.>
[14:32] <Jenshae> Keep going a few chapters on, then realising I can't remember anything from a chapter or two back. Go back and re-read.
[14:33] <Jenshae> I also keep having a background thought of, "I am unlikely to use that. I could look it up."
[14:34] <Jenshae> I am getting to the point where I might save up for a System76 work station. Building and configuring my own ones ... I am starting to doubt myself or the industry as a whole.
[14:35] <RoyK> hehe
[14:35] <RoyK> I first started working "mosttime" with linux in 1998 and fulltime in 2000
[14:36] <RoyK> linux has luckily evolved a bit since the first slackware 2.1 I installed in 1994
[14:47] <RoyK> Jenshae: btw, you don't ned to run a new test - that's done by the drive itself. Just run ./smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdX
[15:42] <Muligan> hey fellas, I've a server setup w/ldap access.  What/how would you suggest I give a single user from ldap ssh/sudo access?
[15:55] <Jenshae> Muligan: Personally, I would create a group, assign permissions to it and work from there but I am not an expert.
[15:55] <Jenshae> RoyK: Better results? https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/Tq3NB965rq/
[15:57] <Jenshae> They all passed with nothing in the Failed column.
[15:59] <RoyK> Muligan: using visudo should do
[15:59] <Muligan> Jenshae, I would agree
[15:59] <Muligan> I've just limited visibility/knowledge into our ldap server(s)
[15:59]  * Muligan is an old school AD guy
[15:59] <Muligan> :\
[16:00] <Muligan> anyhow, I'll get it figured out
[16:00] <RoyK> Muligan: but check with getent passwd first to see if the users are visible there
[16:00] <RoyK> Jenshae: looks good. How is the scrub going?
[16:01] <Jenshae> When you get used to " sudo chown user:group /folder[and/or file] " then it can be quite handy.
[16:02] <Jenshae> "scan: scrub repaired 1.08M in 0h8m with 120 errors on Wed Jul  8 14:01:23 2020"
[16:02] <RoyK> damn
[16:03] <RoyK> can you pastebin zpool status -v ?
[16:03] <RoyK> perhaps censor the filenames, they are irrelevant to me
[16:03] <Jenshae> All the really weird ones with <hexcode> looking stuff is gone.
[16:05] <Jenshae> I don't think it could have repaired any of these files if the data was missing.
[16:06] <Jenshae> It has actually managed to reduce errors this time, instead of finding more.
[16:07] <Jenshae> Going to restore the files, run the scrub and see if I can clear down the log.
[16:18] <RoyK> Jenshae: it's good you have a backup. Now, restore those files and reboot the thing, preferably cutting the power suddenly or something to see if you can provoke the error that way
[16:18] <RoyK> or just reboot -f
[16:19] <RoyK> if it fails again, well, there's a bug or something
[16:19] <RoyK> I doubt this is a hardware error
[16:27] <RoyK> Jenshae: also, if you experience this in the future, make sure to check dmesg. you should be able to find issues in the logs too, as in /var/log/kern.log.something
[16:27] <Jenshae> Thank you. Will let you know how it goes.
[16:28] <RoyK> Jenshae: You could check the old kernel logs now to see if you find anything from last crash
[16:28] <RoyK> as in whence the errors originated
[16:31] <Rusty_Almighty> Is there a way using the installer's busybox implementation to get disk manufacturer?
[16:31] <Rusty_Almighty> and model?
[16:33] <RoyK> I don't think so
[16:33] <Jenshae> I just saw that smartctl provided that.
[16:33] <RoyK> better use a live boot
[16:33] <Jenshae> Inxi also gives you the model number
[16:34] <RoyK> you can find it with 'ls -l /dev/disk/by-id/' too, but that requires udev and I'm not sure if busybox installs have that
[16:34] <Jenshae> Royk: These are listed as the important errors in my logs - https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/rnJBHB8qcR/
[16:34] <RoyK> Jenshae: from which file was that?
[16:38] <Jenshae> Other: Lightdm sends the pam error, Hardware: is the amdgpu error, Applications: spice-vdagent send the redhat.spice one, Other: systemd sent the Postfix one.
[16:39] <Jenshae> Is there a ZFS filter I can apply to look for something related to my problem?
[16:42] <RoyK> again, from which file were these error messages_
[16:42] <RoyK> ?
[16:43] <Jenshae> I don't know, as usually looking at a GUI, it has Important, All, Applications, System, Security and Hardware down the side as category options.
[16:44] <RoyK> oh
[16:44] <RoyK> learn the terminal, dude ;)
[16:46] <Jenshae> So much in the logs. :(
[16:48] <RoyK> Jenshae: just pastebin output of 'ls /var/log' and I'll do my best to guide you :)
[17:24] <Jenshae> RoyK: Sent via IM. Could it be a hard drive driver problem since SMART didn't pick every thing up the first time?
[17:27] <Jenshae> Could it also be my DE not doing a polite shutdown because it isn't notifying the ZFS subsystem that it is shutting down?
[17:34] <RoyK> Jenshae: nothing really suspicious there
[17:34] <RoyK> some wee errors, but that's normal
[17:42] <teward> rbasak: thanks for handling that bug triage.  It's nice when we have defined triage cases that come up regularly isn't it xD
[17:54] <Jenshae> Is there a command for a very polite shutdown, such as, "zfs umount pool2 && poweroff"?
[17:56] <rbasak> teward: :)
[18:08] <RoyK> Jenshae: poweroff should do that for you anyway
[18:40] <Jenshae> RoyK: I don't seem to have all of these options, only zpool status? https://docs.joyent.com/private-cloud/troubleshooting/disk-replacement
[18:44] <RoyK> Jenshae: zfs should anyway be robust enough to allow you to pull the plug at any time without the whole raidz going down. I started working with zfs on solaris some 12 years ago and it really works. I've done lots of "oops" reboots and similar. I guess an upgrade to 20.04 may help this if there's a more recent version of zfs there
[18:45] <Jenshae> Is there a checklist for in place upgrades? I haven't had any success with them so far.
[18:47] <RoyK> not really a checklist - just remember to backup what's important. I've done it several times without major issues. Some hichups sometimes, but not really anything that breaks major stuff
[18:47] <RoyK> that's with do-release-upgrade
[18:47] <RoyK> with 20.04 today, you'll need -d with that since 20.04.1 isn't out yet
[19:42] <Jenshae> It would also be the first time I was on the cutting edge of Ubuntu, I normally wait 6+ months for them to iron out bugs after general release.
[19:42] <RoyK> hehe
[19:42] <Jenshae> The other work station is still rocking 14.04
[19:42] <RoyK> well, good luck
[19:42] <RoyK> that isn't supported anymore, though - hope it's not available on the net
[19:45] <Jenshae> https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle still gets security updates.
[19:45] <Jenshae> I should try a kernel update on it when this one is fixed.
[19:46] <RoyK> that's Extended Security Maintenance (ESM), which you have to pay for
[20:00] <Jenshae> Sorry, getting my versions confused. Getting tired. It is on 16 and this one is 18. Thought for a moment it was 14 and 16
[20:02] <Jenshae> ... would manual upgrading work? Kernel, then repositories?
[20:03] <sarnold> it's usually better to just run do-release-upgrade and let the upgrader sort it out
[20:03] <Jenshae> Piece by piece to see where it fails?
[20:03] <sarnold> but I'm not aware of the context of your zfs problems
[20:03] <Jenshae> I am not sure about my ZFS problems. I seem to get corrupted files every time I reboot or shutdown and boot back up again.
[20:05] <sarnold> ouch :/
[20:05] <Jenshae> What is this resilvering thing about? Would it help?
[20:06] <sarnold> 'resilvering' is when zfs detects errors on a drive and repairs the errors with data from other drives or copies
[20:07] <Jenshae> Is it automatic and therefore won't help?
[20:07] <sarnold> if you've got errors in files visible to userspace but eg zpool status doesn't report errors, then perhaps it's bad memory or something similar?
[20:07] <Jenshae> As it has tried it?
[20:07] <sarnold> you could kick off a scrub, zpool scrub, to look for errors
[20:07] <Jenshae> I have a boot drive and then a ZFS pool. System files should be safe.
[20:08] <Jenshae> Yup, about to go and delete the remaining results of "zpool scrub -v", saved the list then reboot.
[20:10] <Jenshae> Umm ... I am discovering single corrupt files in empty folders that should be full ...
[20:13] <sarnold> hmm, lone files in directories that used to be full *might* also be files in a *mountpoint*, not in zfs; normally zfs refuses to mount datasets if the mountpoint has any files or directories in it, which means it's pretty easy for *one* failed mount for whatever reason to lead to data being in multiple places ..
[20:14] <sarnold> but if mount output shows a zfs dataset mounted in that location, then it's very strange, and might reinforce my thought that you've got bad memory, or perhaps memory errors due to power supply problems, etc
[20:17] <Jenshae> It is a fairly simple setup, four drives, freshly built into a RAIDZ (RAID 5), mounted to user folder point and data dumped in there.
[20:18] <Jenshae> Same goes for the other work station.
[20:18] <RoyK> zfs can withstand an unexpected reboot quite well
[20:18] <RoyK> this must be either a bug or some hardware issue
[20:19] <Jenshae> Which and where is the question.
[20:19] <RoyK> with four drives tagged TOO MANY ERRORS at once, well, there's the controller that might be the problem
[20:19] <RoyK> who knows
[20:19] <RoyK> it may also be the memory, unless it's ECC
[20:20] <RoyK> (which reminds me that producing ECC costs a cent or two more than non-ECC-memory, but costs the double, since they want to skim off a lot for "server" stuff)
[20:20] <Jenshae> It is not. This is a fairly budget build at about £800
[20:21] <RoyK> Jenshae: so better visit http://memtest.org/ and do a memory test
[20:21] <RoyK> you just download an iso and put in on a usb drive or something and boot directly into it
[20:21] <RoyK> some distros even come with it preinstalled in grub
[20:22] <RoyK> seems ubuntu is one of them
[20:22] <Jenshae> Will do.
[20:23] <Jenshae> Will run it over night.
[20:23] <Jenshae> I really wish that terminal was smart enough to read a space and figure out if it was a file name.
[20:23] <RoyK> Jenshae: I know a guy that works with supermicro machines and he said it usually failed before test 4 or 5 and the early tests are rather quick
[20:24] <Jenshae> scp /folder/file name.something can be such a nuisance.
[20:24] <RoyK> 'scp /folder/file\ name' or just 'scp "/folder/file name"'
[20:26] <Jenshae> Being able to do a find and replace to change "/home/etc" into "rm /home/etc" then straight up copy and paste them would be handy
[20:27] <Jenshae> I think I am picking up a pattern, it looks like a particular main folder within the pool had a problem.
[20:27] <Jenshae> Maybe something went wrong when I copied it over.
[20:27] <Jenshae> Could scp be at fault?
[20:28] <RoyK> nah
[20:28] <Jenshae> Does it have a buffer limit? Do I need to move subfolders individually?
[20:28] <RoyK> it works in userspace - the filesystem is in kernelspace
[20:39] <Jenshae> Could the other workstation have put its disk to sleep or scp's permission timed out?
[20:40] <Jenshae> If we figure this out and I ever end up lecturing IT, I will try and recreate the problem to give them a tough assignment.
[21:22] <Jenshae> Thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers. Please send me them, they apparently all that is needed. https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/D9ttcHmFnk/
[21:43] <Jenshae> RoyK: Okay, shutdown, waited awhile, booted up, ran a scrub and still no errors. So, I am thinking it might be a write or incomplete copy problem?
[21:44] <RoyK> that would have been fixed in the journal
[21:44] <RoyK> and not affected the filesystem itself, just the file
[21:45] <RoyK> so something is fishy there
[21:45] <Jenshae> "RoyK: that would have been fixed in the journal" I need some more context.
[21:45] <Jenshae> Are there any I/O stress tests that will tell me if there is an error reading or writing with ZFS?
[21:46] <RoyK> the filesystem has a journal, like all modern filesystems. when something is written, a journal entry is made and synced. when the file is commited to disk, another journal entry is made and commited, saying "this block is ok"
[21:47] <RoyK> you have to go back to FAT32 or ext2 and similar stuff to find filesystems lacking a journal
[21:48] <Jenshae> If it is a write problem, as a work around, can scrub and rsync work together?
[21:49] <Jenshae> I won't attempt to restore tonight, do a very cold boot in the morning.
[21:49] <RoyK> if there's a write problem, it'll be reported in dmesg and the kernel log
[21:49] <RoyK> and if there are no silent errors, the error is elsewhere
[21:49] <RoyK> I'll put my money on the memory
[21:50] <Jenshae> Haven't had any random application crashes.
[21:51] <Jenshae> Everything to, from and using the boot drive has given me no problems.
[21:51] <RoyK> so try a memory test first - if it fails, clean the memory connectors, both the motherboard and the chips, with isopropylic alcohol (if you can find it somewhere in these coronean times) and run a new test
[21:51] <RoyK> using a brush to clean the motherboard sockets is usually the way to go
[21:52] <Jenshae> I use the boot drive for my personal stuff because it isn't shared.
[21:52] <RoyK> but check the memory first, so that you can see if there's something there
[21:52] <RoyK> but I'm tired - ttyl
[21:52] <Jenshae> Sleep well.
[21:52] <Jenshae> Thank you for all the help.
[21:52] <RoyK> thanks
[21:53] <Jenshae> I have been asking around this problem for months on and off, this has gotten me a lot further than anywhere or anyone else.
[21:54] <quadrathoch2> i guess, zfs for linux is still pretty new, so not alot of people know stuff Jenshae
[21:55] <Jenshae> Trying to give Roy-K more of an accolade than critise the community.
[21:56] <quadrathoch2> I never thought you would critize the community
[21:57] <Jenshae> Sorry, read it more as an excuse or defence than an explanation.
[22:06] <Jenshae> See you all tomorrow / Friday. Thanks again for the help. o7


[07:48] <kjackal> Good morning Juju world!
[12:16] <moe_> Hi, I use the python-libjuju library and was wondering if the implementation of the manual provisioning functionality for libjuju is planned in the future? Meaning the adding of already existing virtual machines to a Juju model.
[14:48] <Zic> hi here, quick question, does the return of "juju status" is cURL-able through the GUI or the API?
[14:53] <tvansteenburgh> Zic: technically it might be possible, but it's a websocket api, not http
[14:54] <tvansteenburgh> Zic: i think the reasonable answer is no
[14:54] <tvansteenburgh> Zic: it would be much easier to use libjuju
[14:56] <tvansteenburgh> Zic: is there a reason you can't just use `juju status`?
[14:59] <bdx> charmhelpers api docs are down http://imgur.com/a/AGmDC
[15:02] <Zic> tvansteenburgh: it's to put in a Naemon check :) but if no API is curl-able, I will do a Naemon remote check which exec "juju status" directly on my juju-controller, not a blocking problem :)
[15:10] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: pythonhosted.org is maintained by the PSF, nothing we can do sorry. probably a temporary outage
[16:58] <arosales> magicaltrout: hello
[16:59] <arosales> magicaltrout: hey I was looking at integrating your https://jujucharms.com/u/spicule/saiku-hadoop-spark/ bundle with the new bigtop hadoop charms (https://jujucharms.com/hadoop-processing/)
[17:00] <arosales> one point of integration is the bigtop hadoop charms are only on Xenial so your Thrift and saikuanalytics-enterprise trusty-based charms, which are subs, won't relate to the xenial bigtop hadoop charms
[17:00] <arosales> magicaltrout: was wondering if you had any plans to update those charms to Xenial?
[17:01] <arosales> those = saikuanalytics-enterprise and thrift
[18:57] <stormmore> lp|Kubecon, hows kubecon?
[20:20] <petevg> cory_fu: I updated the conjure-up support for matrix PR (even switched to using automagic): https://github.com/juju-solutions/matrix/pull/107 Thx for the comments ...