[12:50] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[12:50] <didrocks> hey seb128!
[12:51] <seb128> lut didrocks
[12:51] <TheMuso> I'll say good morning over IRC because I cannot see where you folks are. :p
[12:51] <didrocks> some of us are on a standing desk
[12:51] <seb128> desrt, larsu, can you look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/8632284/ if you have any idea about what the issue could be? it's an hang of unity8-dash
[12:51] <seb128> I'm in the "what can land in rtm" session
[12:53] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is bug #1384357 fixed yet? ;-)
[12:59] <chrisccoulson> seb128, it was never broken. You just imagined it
[13:09] <larsu> greyback: there's *a lot* of threads in there...
[13:09] <larsu> greyback: do you know if they share the dbus-1 connection?
[13:10] <larsu> it's known to not work well (or at all) with multiple threads
[13:11] <larsu> greyback: it is...
[13:11] <larsu> can you turn that off?
[14:15] <willcooke> seb128, can you ask didrocks to send me that link to the wiki?
[14:16] <seb128> willcooke, done
[14:16] <didrocks> willcooke: seems my IRC timed out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Desktop
[14:17] <didrocks> willcooke: look as well at the "known issues" section (there is already a lightdm content)
[14:18] <willcooke> thx
[14:20] <didrocks> yw!
[14:22] <desrt> greyback: hey... i figured out the issue
[14:22] <desrt> greyback: it's pretty complicated -- we need to talk
[14:23] <desrt> i think we can fix it by changing the client-side code of networkmanager stuff in the dash
[14:23] <desrt> but it's a tricky general problem that's difficult to avoid and there could be other instances of it
[14:24] <desrt> greyback: long story short is that you cannot create the new network manager access point objects on the spot after receiving the DeviceAdded signal
[14:25] <desrt> because the dbus connection recursive lock is held at this point
[14:25] <desrt> and entering QtDBus with that lock held means that you risk an inversion
[14:25] <desrt> since QtDbus will first try to acquire its own lock before attempting to (re)acquire the dbus lock in the same thread
[14:25] <desrt> meanwhile on the same thread, the locks are acquired in the other order: Qt first, then dbus internal recursive lock
[14:26] <desrt> so we need to create the new objects from a place where no lock is held -- ie: from an idle dispatch or something
[14:26] <desrt> kinda bad architecture from libdbus-1 made worse by some questionable locking practice inside of QtDbus
[14:27] <desrt> greyback_: you missed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8641209/
[14:32] <Laney> jibel: are you in the QA room?
[14:33] <Laney> I want to come nick a copy of the candidate image from you on a USB stick if possible :)
[14:33] <Laney> slow download is slow
[14:38] <jibel> Laney, I'm in the release team room
[14:39] <Laney> ah, the dungeon of doom
[14:40] <Laney> actually it looks like my stick isn't big enough :(
[14:40] <Laney> NO RUDE JOKES PLEASE
[14:41] <mvo> Laney: right…
[14:41]  * Laney stares at mvo
[14:44] <Laney> jibel: willcooke gave me a bigger one, I'm comingdown to grab a copy
[14:44] <willcooke> this stuff just writes itself
[15:13] <greyback_> desrt: thanks for the paste, I did miss it
[15:19] <seb128> desrt, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+filebug
[15:59] <seb128> larsu, Laney: seems like the overlay scrollbars session just vanished from the schedule
[16:02] <Laney> seb128: we saw, asking msm now
[16:03] <Laney> seb128: is willcooke close to you?
[16:03] <seb128> Laney, yes, sitting together in a session, why?
[16:03] <Laney> asking if he knew/asked for it to be changed
[16:03] <seb128> Laney, our guess is that JohnLea is not available and deleted the event from the calendar without letting anyone know, but it's a guess
[16:03] <Laney> ok
[16:04] <seb128> Laney, no, he doesn't know
[16:04] <Laney> so if they don't care> up to us. NICE.
[16:06] <seb128> yeah
[16:09] <willcooke> Laney, I'm done testing the 32bit desktop image.  Ran live and installed, did "some stuff" in it - no problems found
[16:09] <willcooke> can you tick it off for me?
[16:10] <Laney> yeah me too
[16:11] <Laney> Don't know if jibel had some more testing to do
[16:14] <jibel> Laney, nothing more from me. I covered most of the case excepted installation in VMWare which requires a windows machine.
[16:14] <jibel> *cases
[16:14] <Laney> cool, fine by me
[16:14] <Laney> done
[16:24] <willcooke> thx Laney
[17:32] <seb128> tiheum, hey, do you have a recommendation on what icon we should be using for battery in the touch settings grid?
[17:53] <desrt> cyphermox: i'm working on the connection-type patch fwiw
[17:53] <desrt> just a heads-up so we don't do each others work :)
[17:53] <cyphermox> don't spend too much time on it, you have next to nothing to do
[17:53] <cyphermox> there is nothing to do in NM...
[17:53] <desrt> it's a pretty simple patch
[17:54] <desrt> i'm already nearly done -- writing docs now :)
[17:54] <cyphermox> patch where?
[17:54] <cyphermox> as above, there is no patch necessary in NM :)
[17:54] <desrt> there is
[17:54] <cyphermox> nop
[17:54] <desrt> i've been chatting with dcbw about what it should look like
[17:54] <cyphermox> PrimaryConnection
[17:54] <desrt> i want PrimaryConnectionType though
[17:54] <desrt> and this is what i'm adding
[17:54] <cyphermox> alright
[17:54] <cyphermox> knock yourself out then ;)
[17:56] <cyphermox> desrt: mine is already finished; so I'll be happy to review too when you're done
[17:56] <desrt> cyphermox: where is your patch?  in unity?
[17:56] <desrt> or the other thing you were talking about earlier?
[17:56] <cyphermox> yes, the other thing
[17:57] <cyphermox> wireless power saving
[18:08] <cyphermox> desrt: are you basing your patch on git master or <IP_ADDRESS>?
[18:08] <desrt> master
[18:09] <desrt> it'll backport cleanly, i'm sure
[18:11] <cyphermox> alrighty :)
[18:44] <desrt> cyphermox: hey... i'm having some trouble backporting this patch
[18:44] <cyphermox> yeah?
[18:44] <cyphermox> should I come by?
[18:45] <desrt> maybe.  i think i might have found the relevent piece just now
[18:45] <cyphermox> I could use a bit of walking, my back is killing me
[18:45] <desrt> basically, it seems that there is no connection_type accessor on the connection object in our NM version
[18:45] <desrt> come to say hi, then :)
[18:54] <desrt> cyphermox: http://paste.fedoraproject.org/144680/14140904/
[18:56] <cyphermox> shiny
[18:59] <Laney> who knows about the new GtkGesture stuff in 3.14?
[18:59] <Laney> vs. libgrip
[18:59] <Laney> does this obsolete it?
[19:00] <didrocks> Laney: stop it! :)
[19:00] <seb128> Laney, bregma
[19:07] <cyphermox> desrt: do you have an ubuntu bug for this?
[19:08] <desrt> yes-ish
[19:09] <seb128> Laney, you can probably try on desrt's laptop, he has a touch screen and current gtk
[19:09] <seb128> so you should be able to see how pinching, etc is working
[19:11] <desrt> cyphermox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1384776
[19:11] <desrt> cyphermox: this is the closest we have
[19:11] <cyphermox> that's good enough, I'll just add a network-manager task
[19:12] <cyphermox> there is still work needed in unity8 in this case, correct?
[19:15] <desrt> cyphermox: yes.
[19:15] <desrt> i will talk to albert about this
[19:16] <cyphermox> alright
[19:16] <cyphermox> so far so good, works fine here
[19:16] <cyphermox> i'll try wired later
[19:21] <kenvandine> rickspencer3__, that missing depends was a result of autopilot getting removed from the image yesterday
[19:22] <kenvandine> rickspencer3__, i filed a bug and it's being fixed
[19:24] <Laney> seb128: good idea
[19:59] <desrt> larsu: http://ur1.ca/ii3sw
[20:00] <desrt> larsu: keeping this patch up to date is probably going to be a bit annoying...
[20:00] <desrt> since we can't backport mir fixes properly...
[20:01] <larsu> desrt: up to date in gtk master?
[20:01] <larsu> thanks
[20:01] <desrt> i mean we're probably going to be making fixes in gtk master this cycle
[20:01] <desrt> getting those fixes backported into the package will be annoying
[20:02] <larsu> we probably won't backport fixes in the backend api
[20:03] <ochosi> i know this might be a bit early to ask, but what are you guys planning with respect to gtkheaderbars?
[20:03] <ochosi> (in 15.04, that is)
[20:03] <desrt> ochosi: LOVE
[20:03] <ochosi> :]
[20:05] <ochosi> no i mean seriously, i presume patching them out for every gtk3 release won't be much fun
[20:05] <Laney> there's an approach like we did for evince of treating them like toolbars and adding the decorations back
[20:06] <larsu> desrt: nice shirt
[20:07] <larsu> ochosi: there aren't any plans to have apps with headerbars right now
[20:07] <larsu> so we'll keep patching like Laney said
[20:07] <ochosi> right
[20:07] <ochosi> good to know
[20:08] <Laney> I personally think we should take them though, but there are a couple of arguments against
[20:08] <Laney> ...
[20:08]  * Laney walks off
[20:10] <ochosi> i guess both taking them and keeping up the patching creates headaches
[20:23] <larsu> ochosi: thats what we're doing though. The patches check for !GNOME
[20:24] <ochosi> larsu: i know, and i would never complain about it. we're benefitting from that in xubuntu ;)
[20:31] <desrt> cyphermox: your PPA version is working great
[20:31] <desrt> at least as far as the property is concerned :)
[20:31] <cyphermox> awesome
[20:31] <cyphermox> it's in silo RTM 14 now
[20:31] <cyphermox> or rather, it's building
[20:31] <desrt> i don't know what that means, but it sounds nice :)
[20:31] <cyphermox> means I'll land it in RTM soonish
[20:32] <cyphermox> depends a lot more on build time and QA testing time than anything else
[20:32] <desrt> i guess this is out-of-band with utopic
[20:33] <cyphermox> yes
[20:33] <desrt> since as of today we're in SRU land there
[20:33] <cyphermox> won't land in utopic, this will go in V
[20:33] <desrt> sounds good
[20:33] <desrt> session time -- gotta run
[20:33] <cyphermox> unless you explicitly need that as an SRU in utopic, in which case I'll get just that patch SRUd
[20:34] <desrt> larsu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1384776
[20:34] <desrt> cyphermox: this is not useful for utopic
[20:34] <desrt> at least not for ubuntu-desktop
[20:34] <cyphermox> that's what I thought
[20:37] <desrt> larsu: looks like Saviq is on the case :)
[20:37] <Saviq> desrt, I am? ;)
[20:37] <desrt> Saviq: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1384776 has the patched NetworkManager fwiw
[20:38] <desrt> erm.
[20:38] <desrt> https://launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/+archive/ubuntu/nv-build/+packages i mean
[20:38] <desrt> mispaste
[20:38] <Saviq> greyback, ↑
[21:00] <tiheum> seb128: hi, you can use a white version of the battery indicator https://code.launchpad.net/~tiheum/ubuntu-themes/new-indicators
[21:01] <seb128> tiheum, is that in the current rtm package?
[21:42] <Laney> Job: gtk+3.0_3.14.3-0ubuntu1.dsc
[21:42] <Laney> Machine Architecture: amd64
[21:42] <Laney> Package: gtk+3.0
[21:42] <Laney> Package-Time: 627
[21:42] <Laney> Source-Version: 3.14.3-0ubuntu1
[21:42] <Laney> Space: 864432
[21:42] <Laney> Status: successful
[21:47] <Sweet5hark> didrocks: schnappi!
[21:50] <darkxst> Laney, how is your upstart foo? we seem to have an issue with shutdown which suppose could be caused by user session. basically gnome-shell is continually respawning
[21:51] <Laney> can't look now
[21:51] <darkxst> (after clicking shutdown/restart)
[21:51] <Laney> but dunno
[21:51] <Laney> you can make it verbose by editing the Xsession.d script to add --verbose
[21:51] <Laney> and redirect it to some file
[21:51] <Laney> then look at the output
[21:52] <didrocks> darkxst: he's telling sh**, he's singing right now and just slacking :)
[21:53] <Sweet5hark> .oO(schnauze schnappi)
[21:55] <darkxst> Laney, which script do I add that to? I don't see anything upstart in Xsession.d
[21:58] <TheMuso> darkxst: There is a 99upstart file, not sure if thats the one Laney is referring to...
[22:02] <didrocks> darkxst: Laney tells: « it's the one that says STARTUP="init --user" or so »
[22:02] <darkxst> oh yes, I was look in the wrong folder
[22:03] <didrocks> but he's too lazy to go on the other side on the table
[22:08] <darkxst> didrocks, ok
[22:35] <darkxst> upstart --user --verbose doesnt generate any output? where do the event logs go?


[19:17] <sprung> hello Linden940
[19:17] <sprung> i almost became your coworker if you are Linden Labs
[19:18] <sprung> i am a Racker
[19:41] <Linden940> lol
[19:41] <Linden940> no i am not linden labs
[19:41] <Linden940> i do own a company tho
[19:47] <spridel> sprung: where in TX are you a racker?
[19:49] <sprung> spridel, San Antonio
[19:49] <spridel> I'm in Austin and just applied to a position up here
[19:49] <sprung> spridel, thats excellent
[19:50]  * spridel hopes to not get the standard Rackspace reject letter
[19:50] <sprung> there's a standard rackspace reject?
[19:51] <sprung> i let them know i was a racker and i just needed to be officially be called one
[19:51] <sprung> the fanatical support is not just a slogan
[19:51] <sprung> it's how they do everything
[19:52] <sprung> and yeah, really, it's not just a job, you're a fanatic
[19:52] <spridel> yep, "Thank you, your skills and abilities are impressive, however we have chosen to pursue more closely qualified applicants."
[19:53] <spridel> I've seen it 2x, hoping this is the one that gets me an interview
[19:53] <sprung> basically, we're not a job, we're a lifestyle
[19:53] <sprung> if you're going to need to be here 20 hours to fix a problem you're going to do it, voluntarily
[19:53] <sprung> because you need to and because this is what you want to do
[19:54] <spridel> What function are you in?
[19:54] <sprung> not that 20 hours ever happens
[19:54] <sprung> thats just an extreme example
[19:54] <sprung> i operate part of the cloud.
[19:54] <spridel> cool
[19:54] <sprung> beyond that, i am a linux admin.
[19:54] <sprung> i cannot tell you more.
[19:55] <sprung> the culture is incredible.
[19:55] <sprung> managers that are actually managers
[19:55] <spridel> linux admin would have been acceptable, i figured hosting
[19:55] <sprung> managers that help rather than control
[19:56] <sprung> spridel, all we do is hosting
[19:57] <sprung> spridel, so you're in austin? i have heard we are expanding
[19:57] <sprung> into austin
[19:57] <spridel> you have a small office here in Austin
[19:57] <sprung> i dont know in what way exactly
[19:57] <sprung> yeah i just started here 2 weeks ago
[19:57] <sprung> im from kansas city
[19:57] <sprung> by way of omaha
[19:58] <spridel> i think it is a small datacenter actually, I applied for a Network Security Admin
[19:58] <sprung> so i moved from omaha to san antonio two weeks ago
[19:58] <spridel> San Antonio is an awesome city
[19:58] <sprung> spridel, what are your credentials?
[19:59] <spridel> BBA MIS/CIS
[19:59] <sprung> spridel, i just saw Tron on the company dime, three rows had pieces of paper on the seats saying "reserved for rackers"
[19:59] <spridel> If hired I need to get a CCNA in 60 days, which i'm already studying for whether or not i get the position
[19:59] <sprung> of course it got packed
[20:00] <spridel> a company that gets making your employees happy, awesome
[20:00] <sprung> i need an RHCE, no deadline but im going to get it fast as shit
[20:00] <sprung> yeah in Rackspace they usually don't do deadlines
[20:00] <sprung> they expect things done before they need to set deadlines
[20:00] <spridel> Security division they do
[20:01] <sprung> yeah because they are security division
[20:01] <spridel> We want you to know what the ____ is going how
[20:01] <sprung> they plan and limit everything
[20:01] <sprung> which is great
[20:01] <spridel> s/how/no
[20:01] <spridel> s/how/on
[20:02] <sprung> well that goes into the Racker spirit
[20:02] <sprung> Transparency
[20:02] <sprung> thats a big part of it
[20:02] <sprung> we let you know what you are getting into
[20:02] <sprung> no surprises
[20:03] <sprung> i want you to understand this is not just a job it is a lifestyle
[20:03] <sprung> you are becoming a racker
[20:04] <spridel> everyone i know in the security industry is the same way, Learn it, Love it, share it, repeat.
[20:04] <sprung> and if you really want to be a racker, and they are taking a while to respond, send them an email in pseudo-essay form about how you are already a racker
[20:04] <sprung> i did that
[20:05] <sprung> spridel, rackspace is not the rest of the security industry
[20:06] <spridel> thanks for the tip. My previous experiences is that the form rejection letter was in my inbox in about 2 days, if I don't see anything by end of business monday I'll hope I've passed under a Lucky star
[20:07] <sprung> spridel, i applied for a customer facing support position, but i stutter and while that's something i can't help it's also something they can get away with ignoring even though it's a disability
[20:08] <sprung> so they put me on server side
[20:08] <sprung> where i wouldn't face customers
[20:08] <sprung> thats actually a way better deal
[20:08] <sprung> that put me in ops
[20:08] <sprung> i skipped support
[20:09] <sprung> its funny, i did call center, customer facing etc for years and years
[20:09] <sprung> i stuttered but i always had high rankings
[20:09] <sprung> here they let me skip all the phone shit
[20:09] <sprung> i'm like "okay!"
[20:09] <sprung> it was not my favorite
[20:10] <spridel> That is win
[20:10] <sprung> yes
[20:10] <sprung> through being competent enough and what i do and being shitty enough and what i don't like to do i obtained advancement
[20:11] <sprung> my references helped too, my former two bosses had nothing but great things to say about me
[20:16] <spridel> sweet. Right now, I'm mainly working as a contractor for an acquaintance/friend of mine.  He says he'll put in a reference for me, he understands, that where I am, and where his company(startup) can't work together much longer unless his business picks up drastically.
[21:25] <sprung> spridel, get him to write you a recommendation on LinkedIn
[21:26] <sprung> our HR department is one of the most amazing parts of the company in selecting people
[21:26] <spridel> Good Call
[21:27] <sprung> they will look past some of education for personality fit and experience
[21:28] <spridel> technically I'm "overeducated" for the position
[21:38] <sprung> spridel, i would never say what you just said again
[21:38] <sprung> it sounded arrogant
[21:39] <sprung> spridel, education can never match experience, it can't even come close
[21:39] <sprung> you can never be overeducated to work at rackspace
[21:39] <sprung> everybody is learning all the time, and studying all the time
[21:40] <sprung> i hope this makes sense, and as you grow for a few years you will realize that education means a lot less than experience
[21:42] <sprung> one can cheat getting experience by getting lots of certifications
[21:42] <sprung> i did that
[21:43] <sprung> experience means you can solve hard problems
[21:43] <sprung> certifications means you can solve a hard test
[21:43] <spridel> what i mean is that they are looking for an Associates and I have a bachelors
[21:43] <sprung> they get you through the door
[21:43] <sprung> spridel, meaningless
[21:44] <sprung> i have nothing
[21:44] <sprung> i have 3 years towards a bachelors and no degree
[21:44] <sprung> what i am saying is all that stuff your mom and dad tried to prep you for just doesn't matter
[21:45] <sprung> we only hire fanatics
[21:45] <spridel> i agree with the education != Experience
[21:45] <sprung> i turned down a job that would have paid 13k more
[21:46] <sprung> to work here
[21:46] <sprung> because i'm a fanatic
[21:46] <sprung> that's how much this is not a job it is a lifestyle
[21:49] <spridel> I see
[21:51] <sprung> spridel, if you had an opportunity to work on the starship enterprise or something cool like that, would you lose money to do it?
[21:52] <sprung> well, i'm a trekkie and thats why i did it
[21:53] <spridel> to work at a place i felt comfortable, hell yeah
[21:53] <sprung> there you go
[21:54] <sprung> also there is, even in the winter, a 30 degree difference in temperature
[21:54] <sprung> no winters anymore
[21:55] <spridel> hehe
[22:00] <spridel> I've been trying to find a position in Security since May when I graduated, I've applied to a few higher Level positions, this is the first Entry-level one I've seen.
[22:09] <sprung> spridel, and one of the few in the entire country you could get
[22:11] <spridel> sprung: you are probably very right about that
[22:11] <sprung> spridel, even in this economy, the company is taking off
[22:12] <sprung> i cant tell you anything more than that
[22:15] <spridel> sprung: that's because businesses wised up to the fact that they shouldn't be in the business of running a datacenter when their core is Finance/acct/advertising/etc.
[22:19] <sprung> it is humorous you would say that
[22:19] <sprung> spridel, this company can't exist without great marketing/advertising/accounting
[22:19] <sprung> well actually lol
[22:19] <sprung> it can
[22:20] <sprung> it can't exist without a fanatical IT ops and support staff
[22:20] <sprung> This company can't be successful without great marketing/advertising/accounting
[22:21] <sprung> but in this company we have all decided we are fanatical in what we do and that's it
[22:21] <sprung> we give even our janitors and security guards the same benefits and they are fanatical too
[22:22] <sprung> and they're CONTRACTORS
[22:23] <spridel> that's awesome
[22:25] <sprung> spridel, just don't act like you already have credentials because you went to this and that school.
[22:26] <sprung> rackspace already has some of the best and the brightest, i'm not either but they picked me. what you need is to realize that you not only know nothing but can
[22:26] <sprung> rackspace already has some of the best and the brightest, i'm not either but they picked me. what you need is to realize that you not only know nothing but cant wait to have the opportunity
[22:26] <sprung> to know more
[22:34] <spridel> sprung how was tron?


[00:20] <JoseeAntonioR> jono: forgot to mention in the email, ubuntuonair.com has now a link to marathon.ubuntuonair.com at the top
[00:20] <jono> yeah I saw that, thanks JoseeAntonioR
[04:50] <czajkowski> morning
[04:53] <JoseeAntonioR> hey, czajkowski! early today, huh
[04:55] <czajkowski> cant sleep went to bed at 12
[04:56] <JoseeAntonioR> ouch, good luck with that
[04:56] <czajkowski> so working on my bug mail
[06:49] <dholbach> good morning
[07:18] <elfy> morning dholbach
[07:18] <elfy> good luck with the ling day :)
[07:18] <elfy> long one as well ...
[07:19] <dholbach> hi elfy
[07:19] <dholbach> elfy, that's on Thursday :)
[07:19] <dholbach> thanks
[07:19] <elfy> yea I know it's on Thursday - not got a very good memory, so thought I'd say when I remembered lol
[07:20] <elfy> nice bit of money being donated :)
[07:22] <dholbach> :-)
[11:49] <daker> czajkowski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juqyzgnbspY :)
[12:08] <cjohnston> mhall119: I have something else that needs manual testing in your branch... When a BP gets imported, it defaults to two slots.. if we change that to one slot in Summit, will the next import change it back to 2? It shouldn't, but it could cause issues
[12:11] <cjohnston> dholbach: ^
[12:15] <czajkowski> at least alan cox has a sense of humour https://plus.google.com/u/0/102921374554385564572/posts/LYmtX1ttjF7
[13:07] <mhall119> cjohnston: it shouldn't default to 2 slots anymore
[14:59] <jono> mhall119, dpm hey
[14:59] <jono> setting up the hangout now
[15:00] <jono> just finalizing my updates first
[15:00] <dpm> jono, ok
[15:00] <dpm> all set
[15:03] <jono> dpm, mhall119 https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/14c10e73f986bad20d7c9b87fffe003a77ea3b73?authuser=0&hl=en-US
[15:03] <jono> it is running, will be there in one sec, need to take something downstairs for Erica
[15:05] <dpm> ok, no worries
[15:21] <czajkowski> good news http://blog.launchpad.net/general/burning-down-critical-bugs
[15:22] <smartboyhw> :)
[16:00] <dholbach> popey, how did you like the new mix? :)
[16:00] <dholbach> you said I should do more of the same :)
[16:00] <czajkowski> dholbach: loved it!
[16:00] <dholbach> :-)
[16:11] <popey> dholbach, not had a chance to listen yet!
[16:11] <popey> saw the notification though
[16:13] <mhall119> cjohnston: do you know what is required for somebody to be allowed to approve BPs for uds-r?
[16:13] <mhall119> is there an LP team or something?
[16:14] <JoseeAntonioR> mhall119: I think they need to be set as track leads at summit, and be at the uds organizers team
[16:14] <mhall119> summit doesn't control BP approval
[16:15] <JoseeAntonioR> then, uds organizers team, I think
[16:15] <JoseeAntonioR> as they're listed as meeting drivers
[16:16] <mhall119> thanks JoseeAntonioR
[16:16] <cjohnston> uds org for BPs mhall119
[16:16] <mhall119> thanks cjohnston
[16:16]  * dholbach hugs popey
[16:16] <popey> :)
[16:21] <czajkowski> http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/02/travel/american-airlines-problem/  ooer
[16:25] <jcastro_> hey dholbach
[16:25] <dholbach> hey jcastro_
[16:25] <jcastro_> I like getting emails from you every day on your next day off
[16:25] <jcastro_> it reminds me that I should move to Germany
[16:26] <jono> jcastro_, hey
[16:26] <jono> can you go and add what you want to focus on to the 13.04 spreadsheet
[16:26] <jono> I want to get this finalized ASAP
[16:26] <jcastro_> yeah
[16:26] <jono> thanks
[16:26] <jcastro_> we never talked about my 13.04 plans
[16:26] <jcastro_> other than "MORE MORE"
[16:26] <jono> yup, I wanted you to add them first and then we could review them
[16:26] <jcastro_> but I can have that done in an hour or so
[16:27] <dholbach> jcastro_, just make sure that you move to another place than Berlin - we have 9 public holidays - on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_the_United_States I counted 11
[16:27] <jono> thanks jcastro_, lets chat today about them
[16:27] <jono> the rest of the team is good to go
[16:27] <jcastro_> nod
[16:27] <jono> and then we can get our BPs together
[16:27] <jono> cheers
[16:27] <jcastro_> I'll be done within the hour
[16:27] <jcastro_> not in an hour, that would be slacking
[16:27] <dholbach> jcastro_, and we don't have the concept of "bank holidays" either - if a holiday is on a sunday that's bad luck
[16:28] <jcastro_> ah
[16:28] <dholbach> so if you find a good place with lots of public holidays, let me know :-P
[16:28] <jcastro_> but you have octoberfest
[16:28] <jcastro_> so it all evens out
[16:28] <dholbach> in Bavaria
[16:28] <czajkowski> dholbach: ireland :)
[16:28] <czajkowski> and we have holy days also
[16:29] <dholbach> I'll never forget the early days in Canonical when there was a wiki page where all the holidays in all the countries of Canonical employees were listed
[16:29] <dholbach> to me it looked like there were a million and two holidays in Thailand
[16:29] <dholbach> and the names of them all looked like they were from a Thai menu from a restaurant around the corner
[16:30] <czajkowski> LOL
[16:34] <popey> dholbach, other music I like includes http://cerror.bandcamp.com/
[16:34] <popey> which is music in a game called Nikki and the robots, which is good
[16:35] <dholbach> haha, great
[16:36] <dholbach> in terms of 8-bit music, I can recommend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOrlmuprm-8 :-)
[16:36] <popey> hehe
[16:37] <dholbach> do you know it?
[16:38] <popey> no, listened to a bit tho
[16:38] <dholbach> make sure you listen past 0:55 :)
[16:38] <popey> yeah, i skipped to that
[16:38] <dholbach> alright, I've got to rush out to the shop, so see you later :)
[16:38] <popey> :D
[16:38] <popey> o/
[16:38] <dholbach> hugs to you all
[16:39] <cjohnston> mhall119: if you pass '-s 2' when running lpupdate on the cron, it will default all the meetings to two slots.. What I am asking is, when we go into the admin and change a meeting from 2 slots to 1 slot, is lpupdate going to change it back to 2
[16:48] <snap-l> popey: Are you familiar with 8-Bit Weapon?
[16:50] <mhall119> cjohnston: no, it won't
[16:59] <cjohnston> ok.. mhall119 we need to figure out what the story is with this openid traceback that has come back again
[17:09] <popey> snap-l, no
[17:10] <mhall119> cjohnston: the what?
[17:10] <cjohnston> look at your email
[17:10] <cjohnston> for summit errors
[17:10] <mhall119> oh damn :(
[17:10] <mhall119> that's a lot of errors
[17:11] <mhall119> I thought you sent a fix for that?
[17:11] <cjohnston> i did
[17:11] <cjohnston> if you look, it started last night
[17:11] <mhall119> was it reverted?
[17:11] <mhall119> what changed last night?
[17:12] <cjohnston> nothing tmk
[17:12] <cjohnston> last time it happened for 2 hours, I talked to IS and they didnt know of anything that changed, but it stopped on its own after two hours
[17:23] <JoseeAntonioR> cjohnston: what happens if I want to uninstall summit and get my lighttpd server back up?
[17:24] <cjohnston> umm.... im not sure what you did? django has a built in web server
[17:24] <cjohnston> so it shouldnt mess with lighttpd
[17:25] <JoseeAntonioR> well, I'm installing summit, but in my local machine, but it's also running lighttpd for file hosting
[17:25] <JoseeAntonioR> so, will it cause any probs at all, or will it work separately, in another port?
[17:25] <cjohnston> mhall119: ^
[17:25] <cjohnston> JoseeAntonioR: I don't think so, just do everything in a virtualenv
[17:26] <JoseeAntonioR> yeah, that's what I'm doing
[17:26] <cjohnston> and use ./manage.py runserver which would happen on :8000
[17:26] <JoseeAntonioR> I hope everything goes fine
[17:26] <JoseeAntonioR> hmm, ok
[17:26] <AlanBell> different port JoseeAntonioR, the local instance just gets served up by django's built in server
[17:27] <JoseeAntonioR> oh, great, thanks AlanBell!
[17:27] <mhall119> JoseeAntonioR: you'll want to use manage.py runserver <IP_ADDRESS>:8000 to make it listen to all IPs, otherwise it only listens on <IP_ADDRESS>
[17:27] <mhall119> and is only accessible from the same host
[17:28] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, /me tries
[17:29] <AlanBell> ./manage.py runserver --settings=ubuntu_settings <IP_ADDRESS>:8000
[17:29] <AlanBell> for summit :)
[17:31] <JoseeAntonioR> Error: No module named django_openid_auth, is this usual?
[17:31] <snap-l> popey: http://www.8bitweapon.com/ (some good chiptune music, if you're in to that sort of thing)
[17:31] <popey> ta
[17:31] <popey> I am a bit
[17:31] <popey> not obsessively though ;)
[17:32] <mhall119> JoseeAntonioR: did you install all the dependent packages?
[17:32] <mhall119> sudo make depends
[17:32] <pleia2> or could use the VM-based instructions that daker gave me for my blog post (then it doesn't add all this stuff directly to your desktop)
[17:33] <pleia2> http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=6662
[17:33] <pleia2> he wrote a bunch of stuff to make it easier :)
[17:33] <daker> for summit or LTP ?
[17:34] <cjohnston> pleia2: summit :-)
[17:34] <pleia2> oh
[17:34] <pleia2> oops :)
[17:34] <JoseeAntonioR> :P
[17:34] <cjohnston> not a bad idea to make it work for Summit too
[17:34] <mhall119> most of the instructions will probably work for summit too
[17:34] <JoseeAntonioR> urgh, there's no python 2.6
[17:34] <cjohnston> 2.7 work
[17:34] <cjohnston> works
[17:35] <mhall119> JoseeAntonioR: right, it works iwth 2.7 though
[17:35] <mhall119> just have to change the Makefile
[17:36] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, finishing install
[17:37] <daker> i can propose a patch :)
[17:37] <cjohnston> daker: I'm not aginst that :-)
[17:37] <cjohnston> mhall119: https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/summit/changing-python-ver/+merge/127553
[17:39] <cjohnston> mhall119: I also figured out part of the menu problem
[17:39] <cjohnston> just not a fix
[17:40] <mhall119> cjohnston: what did you figure out?
[17:41] <cjohnston> So I got it to where http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/ is working, but http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/2012-10-29/ isn't
[17:42] <cjohnston> mhall119: it looks for if item.current... so https://github.com/rossp/django-menu/blob/master/menu/templatetags/menubuilder.py#L76 is where the code that makes it work/not work
[17:42] <cjohnston> the startswith doesn't seem to be working
[17:43] <cjohnston> tho in my other app it is working
[17:43] <JoseeAntonioR> same error, depends installed
[17:44] <cjohnston> JoseeAntonioR: what error?
[17:44] <cjohnston> mhall119: actually, i thinki just got it http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~summit-hackers/summit/trunk/view/head:/summit/common/templatetags/menubuilder.py#L52
[17:44] <JoseeAntonioR> Error: No module named django_openid_auth
[17:44] <JoseeAntonioR> and it's been installed
[17:44] <cjohnston> JoseeAntonioR: are you inside the virtualenv?
[17:44] <JoseeAntonioR> yep
[17:45] <cjohnston> paste me the results from 'pip freeze' please
[17:46] <JoseeAntonioR> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1256465/
[17:47] <cjohnston> your missing a bunch.. pip install -r requirements.txt
[17:47] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, re-running
[17:48] <mhall119> cjohnston: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/support-short-slots/+merge/127557
[17:53] <JoseeAntonioR> cjohnston: are we still working on bug 984282?
[17:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 984282 in summit "Breaks and lunch are incorrectly being given the private css class" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984282
[17:53] <mhall119> JoseeAntonioR: I wasn't getting that on my local dev
[17:53] <cjohnston> JoseeAntonioR: i dont know why it was displaying wrong last cycle, but its right this cycle, it would be nice to figure out, but i dont know that, with it working this cycle, its a high priority
[17:54] <mhall119> can it be reproduced locally?
[17:56] <JoseeAntonioR> let me check
[18:00] <JoseeAntonioR> there's no type lunch :S
[18:02] <JoseeAntonioR> oh, figured out how to
[18:08] <JoseeAntonioR> mhall119: http://joseeantonior.com:8000/test-summit/2012-10-02/display if you scroll down, I don't see any problems
[18:09] <cjohnston> like I said, I've only seen it the one uds
[18:11] <JoseeAntonioR> weird
[19:49] <jcastro_> jono, when you get back from lunch, at the top of the hour I can retest your G+ if you want
[19:53] <jono> jcastro_, I am good now, thanks
[19:53] <jono> it works :-)
[19:53] <jono> jcastro_, did you finish your 13.04 plan?
[19:56] <akgraner> jono - gotta luv Rikki's competitive emails. :-)  I plan on beating you for this issue!
[19:56] <jono> akgraner, :-)
[19:57] <jcastro_> jono, yeah, we can talk about that if you want
[19:57] <jcastro_> I AM READY TO BE FLAMED
[19:57] <jono> jcastro_, can we do it in about an hour?
[19:57] <jcastro_> sure
[21:08] <jono> jcastro_, two mins and then lets go
[21:11] <jcastro_> okey
[21:12] <jcastro_> jono, let's do dis.
[21:12] <jono> jcastro_, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f0141028f3995378403d059d4a55feec92ee834a?authuser=0&hl=en-US
[22:44] <jono> jcastro_, can you link me to the Charm Quality Rating
[22:44] <jono> the public page
[22:45] <jcastro_> https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/charm-quality.html
[22:45] <jcastro_> #1 hit on google now!
[22:45] <jono> thanks!
[23:03] <greg-g> jcastro_: in your personal bubble, of course ;)
[23:07] <JoseeAntonioR> jcastro_: are you free for a test hangout now?
[23:42] <JoseeAntonioR> jono: busy atm?
[23:43] <jono> JoseeAntonioR, I am right now
[23:43] <jono> whats up?
[23:43] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, wanted to test a couple things
[23:44] <JoseeAntonioR> as for example, what happens if the one who created the hanogut disconnects
[23:44] <JoseeAntonioR> but can do that with another person, don't worry
[23:44] <jono> thanks JoseeAntonioR


[09:53] <sam-c> on security?
[09:57] <sam-c> Is ubuntu Quantel Alpha as safe as ubuntu Precise 12.04 LTS ? at presnt??
[10:12] <jussi> sam-c: I seriously doubt it
[11:57] <scout1340793703> ciao a tutti!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[15:24] <oCean> zykotick9: how come you think Ubuntu is cutting edge?
[15:24] <oCean> I haven't had a crash or non-working device in years (litteraly)
[15:24] <oCean> Which I frequently do have using fedora for example :p
[15:25] <Jagst3r15> so i want to rant about ubuntu and updates
[15:25] <oCean> rant?
[15:25] <oCean> it is -discuss
[15:25] <zykotick9> oCean: comparing package age of ubuntu to enterprise grade distros like debian or RHEL and you'll see a HUGE difference
[15:26]  * AlanBell checks for updates on quantal
[15:26] <oCean> oh right, that is true, but those have an entirely different market
[15:26] <DJones> Jagst3r15: As the topic says, no ranting here please
[15:26] <zykotick9> oCean: also, if you want stable - i'd look elsewhere then ubuntu
[15:26] <Jagst3r15> sorry i meant discuss
[15:26] <oCean> zykotick9: actually, in my experience - no. Ubuntu has been stable for me on 3 different lap/desktops and various servers
[15:27] <AlanBell> stable can mean "doesn't change much" which is the debian meaning of it, or "doesn't crash lots" which isn't the Microsoft definition
[15:27] <zykotick9> oCean: i used to think ubuntu was stable - but it breaks a lot...  just look at #ubuntu for examples of that
[15:27] <Jagst3r15> dont you think its a problem that canonical wants to release ubuntu on stuff like dell computers - seems kind of problematic to include LTS distros on them when alot of software is out of date
[15:27] <AlanBell> I find Ubuntu pretty solid, unity used to be flakey but now it is much better
[15:28] <AlanBell> Jagst3r15: not much in 12.04 is out of date
[15:28] <Jagst3r15> yes but just wait a year or two, right?
[15:28] <zykotick9> oCean: compared to old-school gentoo (where i came from) - ubuntu is a rock ;)
[15:28] <AlanBell> firefox and thunderbird will be up to date, kernels will be backported too
[15:29] <oCean> zykotick9: I think the larger part of issues mentioned in #ubuntu channel are because of users that want exotic stuff (i.e. non-standard)
[15:29] <AlanBell> libreoffice as well I think
[15:29] <Jagst3r15> i also dont understand why chrome isnt allowed in the software center
[15:29] <DJones> Jagst3r15: But thats one of the "benefits" of an LTS, packages will change, if you want later, newer packages, you do get the option to upgrade every 6 months anyway
[15:29] <AlanBell> chromium-browser is
[15:29] <Jagst3r15> not chromium, but google chrome - they have an official distro
[15:29] <Jagst3r15> google chrome is better IMO
[15:30] <AlanBell> which is non-free
[15:30] <oCean> Last weekend I bought a brand new "ultrabook", booted from Xubuntu USB, 15 minutes later everything (graphics, sound, wireless, bluetooth) worked
[15:30] <zykotick9> oCean: agreed.  there is a "user" element to MANY of the issues.  but general updates on ubuntu do break more then they should.
[15:30] <DJones> I thought Chrome wasn't included because google had their own distribution system & their own repo which keeps it under their own control
[15:30] <oCean> zykotick9: I still have to experience that, really. An update breaking anything for me
[15:30] <oCean> zykotick9: granted, I do not use Unity
[15:30] <Jagst3r15> DJones I think your right
[15:30] <oCean> so, no experience there
[15:31] <Jagst3r15> oCean what do you use then?
[15:31] <oCean> xubuntu, xfce
[15:31] <Jagst3r15> oh i c
[15:32] <Jagst3r15> so when 12.10 is release do all of the things in the software center recive an upgrade?
[15:32] <oCean> no
[15:32] <DJones> I only use one app that consistently crashes and thats installed from a ppa, everything else in a default ubuntu install including unity has been rock solid for me
[15:33] <oCean> !sru | Jagst3r15
[15:35] <Jagst3r15> thanks
[15:35] <Jagst3r15> forigive me I am a noob and am tryint to understand how it works :)
[15:35] <oCean> Jagst3r15: not considered a noob at all.
[15:36] <oCean> I wonder how difficult it would be to combine stable and latest releases. I mean, give the user a choice to tick the box "gimme al the latest" or (by default) only stable updates
[15:37] <oCean> (I don't know very much about that process and the possibilities)
[15:38] <Jagst3r15> i think skype will get update
[15:38] <Jagst3r15> because microsoft is like a partner?
[15:46] <Jagst3r15> oCean is xubuntu updated frewuently?
[15:46] <Jagst3r15> every six months right
[15:47] <oCean> Jagst3r15: it is exactly as ubuntu, only that it uses XFCE, not Gnome/Unity.
[15:47] <oCean> It uses same repositories etc
[15:47] <Jagst3r15> ahh so its like a wordpress theme u can just change in and out
[15:47] <oCean> well, almost
[15:48] <oCean> there are more: KDE (Kubuntu) and LXDE (Lubuntu) for example
[15:49] <Jagst3r15>  ah
[15:50] <Jagst3r15> oCean what is the term for updated repos?
[15:50] <Jagst3r15> is that PPA?
[15:50] <Jagst3r15> its like ones maintained by others
[15:50] <Jagst3r15> not ubuntu official ones
[15:51] <oCean> !ppa
[15:52] <Jagst3r15> ahh thanks
[15:52] <oCean> As it says "3rd party packages" So no guarantees
[15:52] <Jagst3r15> but if its like from google.com its probably cool?
[15:52] <Jagst3r15> like chrome
[15:53] <oCean> well, you could do a little research on the PPA, how often it is used/updated etc. But still, even a stable PPA might cause issues in the future. With "no guarantees" I mean that the maintainers of those PPA's have no obligation to keep updating their software
[15:54] <Jagst3r15> oh i c
[15:57] <Jagst3r15> thanks for help oCean. I am off to lunch
[18:11] <Jagst3r15> for ubuntu 12.10 what does it mean that it will include a vanilla version of gnome as an option ?
[18:44] <AlanBell> Jagst3r15: it means a version without patches to make it more ubuntuish
[18:44] <AlanBell> and all the bits of gnome
[18:46] <Jagst3r15> AlanBell u know where i can find a list of the Main - Officially supported software?
[18:46] <Jagst3r15> as per https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu
[18:46] <AlanBell> http://packages.ubuntu.com/
[18:47] <Jagst3r15> how would i see a list of officially supported ones
[18:47] <Jagst3r15> i.e. ones that are continuously updates like firefox
[18:48] <AlanBell> ah, that is different
[18:48] <AlanBell> officially supported ones are everything in main
[18:48] <AlanBell> as in they get updates by canonical
[18:48] <Jagst3r15> where would i see that?
[18:48] <Jagst3r15> like a list
[18:49] <AlanBell> the other bits (universe,multiverse,restricted) can get updates from the community, but not so many
[18:49] <AlanBell> generally supported means they keep those versions going
[18:50] <AlanBell> does not mean they drop in new versions with new features, just bug fixes
[18:50] <Jagst3r15> ones in main recieve new features tho?
[18:50] <AlanBell> no
[18:50] <Jagst3r15> how come firefox is same version as one for windows then
[18:50] <AlanBell> there are a very small number of packages with strong upstreams where new versions are updated
[18:51] <AlanBell> like really really small
[18:51] <Jagst3r15> oh like under 10? like that small
[18:52] <AlanBell> like I am not sure if it is anything other than firefox
[18:53] <Jagst3r15> maybe gedit and libreoffice?
[18:53] <AlanBell> not gedit
[18:53] <AlanBell> ati and nvidia binary drivers might get updates
[18:53] <Jagst3r15> oh itsjust coincidence that its the same version
[18:54] <Jagst3r15> because last version of gedit was early april and 12.04 was released in april
[18:54] <AlanBell> yeah
[18:54] <Jagst3r15> someone told me that it was firecly deabted about having everything with strong upstreams
[18:55] <Jagst3r15> but they decided on stable release instead of rolling
[18:56] <AlanBell> yes, however the development version of Ubuntu (Quantal at the moment) is basically a rolling release
[18:56] <Jagst3r15> until they freeze it?
[18:56] <AlanBell> they have changed things to make it more likely that it basically works every day
[18:56] <AlanBell> yeah, until freeze, then you can upgrade again to the latest crack
[18:56] <Jagst3r15> cuz dont they freeze it before they are gonna release stable
[18:57] <Jagst3r15> ah
[18:57] <Jagst3r15> i cant get past the fact that they dont update programs in software center
[18:57] <Jagst3r15> bothers me
[18:57] <AlanBell> final freeze is only a week or two before release (and it isn't *that* frozen)
[18:57] <AlanBell> depends how they are in software centre and who updates them
[18:57] <IdleOne> Ubuntu aims for stability that is why not every applications is the latest version
[18:58] <Jagst3r15> true but for something like chromium
[18:58] <Jagst3r15> its already a version behind
[18:58] <Jagst3r15> two years from now it will be really behind
[18:58] <Jagst3r15> if u use LTS
[18:58] <AlanBell> and works just fine
[18:59] <Jagst3r15> im not saying its a problem for me particularly
[18:59] <Jagst3r15> but for users who buy a laptop from dell like they do in inida now
[18:59] <IdleOne> security updates are added and they do point releases for LTS which means apps like chromium could be upgraded to newer versions
[18:59] <Jagst3r15> is it up to the package maintaner to release a newer version or do they hve to get canoinical approval
[19:00] <IdleOne> I am not sure how that gets decided
[19:00] <IdleOne> maybe AlanBell knows
[19:01] <Jagst3r15> again im not complaining, just trying to think whats best for ubuntu and users who dont know about this kind of stuff
[19:01] <AlanBell> it varies
[19:01] <AlanBell> for apps that go in via the app review board they can get updates whenever
[19:02] <Jagst3r15> whats an example of that
[19:02] <AlanBell> for stuff that is in the main repositories then updates sometimes go via debian first
[19:02] <AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/
[19:03] <Jagst3r15> doesnt debian have rolling release
[19:06] <Jagst3r15>  AlanBell im also asking because i see there are alot of paid apps
[19:06] <Jagst3r15> and ud think they would need new features
[19:36] <AlanBell> no, debian doesn't have rolling release, they have the same kind of strategy, but they only release when they feel like it, not on a regular basis. The stable version of Debian can be very old.
[19:37] <AlanBell> paid apps get updates I think, they are not in the main repositories
[21:35] <Pecker> Why does unity have so much overhead?


[03:08] <pleia2> quiet weekend :) but it looks like we've got things done
[03:09] <pleia2> Unit193: link check? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue406
[03:12] <Unit193> Lookin' good.
[03:12] <pleia2> thanks :)
[19:42] <jose> from a quick look, everything looks good


[14:38] <elacheche> o/
[15:23] <pavlushka> elacheche o/
[15:34] <elacheche> wassup pavlushka :)
[15:35] <pavlushka> elacheche: my nose, it's up and running
[15:54] <elacheche> hahahah.. Good at least soùething is up and running x)


[01:04] <xrfang> how can I get the current disk write cache size? thanks
[05:31] <noahmg123_> imback
[05:41] <noahmg123_> leave
[08:46] <eXistenZe> hateball: thank you for the invite. So what bugs are we talking about?
[08:46] <hateball> eXistenZe: Just that Plasma is generally unstable in the default release
[08:46] <hateball> eXistenZe: It shouldnt lead to corruption however
[08:47] <hateball> eXistenZe: And like I said, pretty much everyone uses this PPA https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports
[08:47] <hateball> Solves most issues with dual/external monitors and such also
[08:47] <hateball> eXistenZe: Problem is that backporting newer plasma requires newer Qt, and that might break regular Ubuntu
[08:48] <hateball> I havent checked on 16.10 but I assume that will fix much headache
[08:49] <eXistenZe> mine logged into black screen every few days. And some files in plasma config got most lines erased. Restoring them solved the issue
[08:50] <eXistenZe> I like plasma aver unity or gnome, but this bug made me abandon kubuntu
[08:50] <hateball> Understandable, certainly if you did not try using the PPA
[08:50] <hateball> I dont really have any issues after that
[08:50] <eXistenZe> nope. Never heard of it.
[08:50] <hateball> anyhows, 16.10 is out in not-long, if I were adventerous and doing a fresh install I'd probably go for that myself
[08:51] <eXistenZe> So I install kubuntu, the the repo, and just update?
[08:51] <hateball> (altho that is bad advice since it is not yet supported)
[08:51] <hateball> eXistenZe: Yep
[08:52] <hateball> eXistenZe: And if you use an nVidia GPU, you probably want to use the nVidia PPA as well
[08:52] <eXistenZe> thanks
[08:52] <eXistenZe> gonna give it a try again this weekend
[08:54] <eXistenZe> It's a shame so few apps are developed for linux
[08:54] <eXistenZe> And office filetypes compatibility is also horrible
[08:55] <hateball> All depends what you need I suppose
[08:58] <eXistenZe> proper docx, xlsx, accdb and pptx suport would be awesome
[08:59] <hateball> Not really a Linux/Kubuntu problem however
[08:59] <eXistenZe> true
[09:01] <eXistenZe> Already asking on the proper #
[09:13] <eXistenZe> What do you call plasma in relation with KDE or unity with gnome?
[09:14] <eXistenZe> Are they all DEs?
[09:14] <hateball> KDE is a community
[09:14] <hateball> Plasma is the DE
[09:15] <hateball> and you have KDE Applications which is the rest of the bits, pretty much
[09:16] <hateball> well, they all depend on Frameworks
[09:16] <eXistenZe> What are KDE apps? Apps that change the DE itself?
[09:16] <hateball> eXistenZe: No, things like Kate and Okular and so on
[09:16] <hateball> without them you'd just have plasmashell and kwin
[09:31] <eXistenZe> but why are they kde apps? They don't work on other DEs? Or is it just because they were made by the team and are pre-installed?
[09:32] <jubo2> eXistenZe: I dunno. I hear Konversation could easily work in Gnome but I've preferred KDE since oogles ago
[09:33] <jubo2> Gnome .. just .. doesn't .. feel .. as .. good
[09:36] <jubo2> And I don't get no hatin' for likin' KDE
[09:43] <eXistenZe> Visually, plasma is awesome
[09:44] <gradon> KDE is amazing, I feel like it runs lighter than everything else.
[09:45] <hateball> eXistenZe: because they were made by the KDE community yes. of course they run anywhere if dependencies are met
[09:46] <eXistenZe> Any linux app runs in any distro, right?
[09:46] <eXistenZe> dependencies met
[09:46] <Smurphy> yes.,
[11:19] <moein> HI
[11:19] <hateball> hello
[11:19] <moein> No body?
[11:20] <moein> Can i install unity on kubuntu?
[11:20] <hateball> If you like, yes
[11:20] <moein> How?
[11:20] <hateball> moein: apt install unity
[11:20] <moein> Thanks
[11:21] <hateball> and then pick what DE you like when you login
[11:36] <noahmg123_> imback
[11:47] <konrados> Morning :)
[11:50] <konrados> I have a file which I can execute as normal user (konrad) and I can't as sudo, here are the permissions: -rwxrwxr-x  1 konrad konrad ... why is that?
[11:53] <hateball> konrados: pastebin your exact commands and results
[11:59] <konrados> hateball, - https://gist.github.com/konrados/a461e1e6850347461aa27a7a90f51714
[12:00] <hateball> sorry, no idea about npm
[12:02] <konrados> hateball - this is a node package manager which is a js file, which is then run by node.  But the error isn't related to npm its self, these are permission issues.
[12:02] <hateball> konrados: chances are you'll get more response in #ubuntu since it's not plasma related
[12:03] <konrados> ah no, sorry it says: sudo: npm: command not found but I think this are permissions, hateb
[12:03] <konrados> hateball, ^
[12:03] <hateball> konrados: well what does "which npm" say when you run it as your user?
[12:05] <konrados> fdddg
[12:05] <konrados>  /home/konrad/.nvm/versions/node/v6.4.0/lib/node_modules/npm/bin/npm-cli.js
[12:06] <hateball> that's not going to be in roots path, so
[12:06] <konrados> oh, I think I understand!
[12:07] <konrados> I have a different $PATH when doing as sudo, and doing sudo which npm gives me nothing...
[12:07] <hateball> yes
[12:07] <konrados> thank you hateball!
[12:07] <hateball> :)
[12:26] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:15] <onlineq> Hello, is there any wifi / wpa_supplicant  guru ?   I have a weird problem with my new notebook (Lenovo T560) in Xenial.
[13:16] <hateball> !anyone
[13:16] <hateball> come on now
[13:16] <hateball> !help | onlineq
[13:19] <onlineq> okay.. I am trying to connect the notebook with WIFI... with the open network it's perfectly okay. I am trying with our company wifi network , which is WPA-EAP... there's machine authentication against AD.    Problem is , that once I use the wpa_supplicant with the WIFI  (it's Intel Corp. Wireless 8260 (rev 3a),   8086:24f3) and turn on the debug l
[13:19] <onlineq> og, it is constantly saying that  "No suitable network found" even if the ESSID is correct. I am using the completely same setup on my old notebook and it works...
[13:19] <onlineq> surely it never connects with the new notebook.
[15:18] <kante_> test
[15:29] <threebar> hey everyone
[15:29] <threebar> i updated and installed latest bitcoin-qt but im still on 0.9.4 and i get a message that my version is old
[15:29] <threebar> is xenial not keeping up with the latest bitcoin-qt?
[15:30] <dax> !info bitcoin-qt
[15:30] <dax> didn't think so
[15:30] <dax> threebar: we don't package bitcoin-qt, you're probably using a PPA or something, talk to whoever you got the package from
[15:31] <threebar> how do i tell what PPA its coming from?
[15:31] <seam_install> hello
[15:32] <seam_install> in the mood to help anybody?
[15:33] <seam_install> Have an upgraded Kubunti 16.4.1 and want to install steam, but it tells me there are unsatified dependencies.
[15:34] <seam_install> aptitude suggeste to deinstall 600+ packages.
[15:34] <seam_install> can't beleve this.
[15:34] <seam_install> can anybody guide me to install steam client?
[15:36] <threebar> dax, i ran "apt-cache showpkg bitcoin-qt" and it shows me "0.9.4-trusty1 (/var/lib/dpkg/status)"
[15:37] <threebar> seam_install, that's probably unrelated. check above or below that message for the actual reason it won't install. read carefully
[15:38] <seam_install> there isn't much to missinterprete...
[15:38] <seam_install> steam:i386 : Hängt ab von: libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 soll aber nicht installiert werden
[15:39] <threebar> so you're missing your libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 package
[15:40] <threebar> o has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[15:40] <threebar> errr
[15:40] <threebar> http://askubuntu.com/questions/588024/steam-install-error-on-14-04-ubuntu-64bit
[15:40] <threebar> try that
[15:40] <dax> threebar: I think that's from https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/ubuntu/bitcoin
[15:40] <seam_install> sudo apt-get install steam libgl1-mesa-glx:i386
[15:40] <seam_install> sudo apt-get install steam libgl1-mesa-glx:i386
[15:41] <dax> threebar: (which is a PPA, so not officially supported, so use at your own risk basically)
[15:41] <seam_install> libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 : Hängt ab von: libxdamage1:i386 (>= 1:1.1) soll aber nicht installiert werden
[15:41] <seam_install> sudo apt-get install steam libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 libxdamage1:i386
[15:42] <seam_install> http://pastebin.com/9e4c7pHX
[15:43] <seam_install> according to this it should work out of the box:
[15:43] <seam_install> https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-install-steam-on-ubuntu-16-04-xenial-xerus
[15:47] <seam_install> when I have aptitude to resolve the conflicts it sugests either not to install steam or to remove 600+ packages
[15:47] <seam_install> neither one is what I want... :o(
[15:50] <threebar> dax, they list the PPA on their website
[15:50] <dax> i meant "officially" as in by us
[15:50] <threebar> https://bitcoin.org/en/download
[15:50] <dax> probably bitcoin supports it, yes
[15:51] <threebar> oh ok
[15:51] <threebar> whatever, i just downloaded their tgz
[15:51] <threebar> thanks
[15:51] <dax> that's what i do, personally :)
[16:32] <yocs0000> what is the best environment to develop in python under kubuntu?
[16:33] <Pici> 'environment'?
[17:06] <collins> hello
[17:07] <collins> hello
[17:08] <collins> I am need assistance in installing onedrive on my newly installed Kubuntu OS
[17:08] <collins> I have tried this http://xmodulo.com/sync-microsoft-onedrive-linux.html but I encountered an error along the line
[17:12] <collins> :~/onedrive-d$ ./inst install
[17:12] <collins> bash: ./inst: No such file or directory
[17:12] <collins> when I try the command "./inst install"
[17:17] <allesszz> hi guys. I have an issue with akonadi service
[17:18] <allesszz> I am on kubuntu 16.04
[17:18] <Dragonslicer> collins- It's hard for us to support software that isn't in the Ubuntu repository
[17:18] <Dragonslicer> My best guess, though, is to make sure that you're in the directory with the "inst" program and that it's marked as executable
[17:18] <allesszz> I have changed to auto-login and kontact stopped working
[17:19] <allesszz> after removing auto-login it sill wont start and kontact does not like that at all ;-(
[17:19] <allesszz> any ideas?
[17:20] <collins> @Dragnslicer Thanks for your response. please how do I know if I am in the directory that has the "inst"
[17:20] <Dragonslicer> collins- ls -al inst
[17:21] <Dragonslicer> If that gives something like "No such file", try just ls -al
[17:21] <collins> I am new to Linux and only followed the guidelines I found here http://xmodulo.com/sync-microsoft-onedrive-linux.html
[17:23] <Dragonslicer> collins- the instructions there are probably incorrect, then
[17:23] <collins> I would like to start afresh, please how do I uninstall this command "git clone https://github.com/xybu92/onedrive-d.git"
[17:24] <Dragonslicer> That page is dated 2014, so things may have changed in the software
[17:24] <collins> Okay
[17:24] <Dragonslicer> Looking at the github page, I don't see an "inst" program
[17:25] <collins> How do I undo everything I have done starting with "git clone https://github.com/xybu92/onedrive-d.git"
[17:25] <collins> So I can start afresh with correct guideline
[17:27] <Dragonslicer> It looks like the software page is at https://github.com/xybu/onedrive-d-old
[17:27] <Dragonslicer> You might find better instructions there
[17:29] <collins> okay. Thanks. please can you help me to remove what I have done so far? I don't know where and how to do that.
[17:30] <allesszz_> I think I know how akonadi got broken. I installed maria db and removed the existing mysql installation which akonadi uses
[17:30] <allesszz_> ahhhh!! ;-(
[17:32] <Dragonslicer> collins- if all you did was clone the git repository, you can just delete the directory that it created
[17:33] <collins> that's the onedrive-d directory?
[17:33] <collins> I am already in that directory "cd onedrive-d" please what command do I need to delete it?
[17:34] <Dragonslicer> cd ..
[17:35] <Dragonslicer> rm -rf onedrive-d
[17:35] <Dragonslicer> Or you can just use a GUI file manager, e.g. Dolphin
[17:37] <allesszz_> starting akonadi server reveals this error message: Fatal error: Please consult the Knowledge Base to find out how to run mysqld as root!
[17:38] <collins> thanks. deleted now. let me try the new instructions now
[17:39] <collins> please is there any material like ebook that can help me to master the use of Kubuntu fast
[17:43] <sadario> Hi. After an hour or so of googling, I still haven't found a solution for something that shouldn't be a problem at all. Ubuntu does it easily, but Kubuntu doesn't seem to have the option to
[17:43] <sadario> easily swap between two connected audio-devices (USB-headset and 5.1-speakers). Is there anyone who would be able to enlighten me on this?
[17:44] <BluesKaj> sadario, you should be able to so in pavucontrol
[17:45] <Dragonslicer> collins- http://docs.kubuntu.org/ is probably a good place to start
[17:45] <sadario> BluesKaj: Can't see the option to swap in PavuControl either
[17:46] <BluesKaj> or system settings>multimedia>hardware preferences
[17:46] <BluesKaj> sadario, audio outputs in pavucontrol ??
[17:47] <daum_> hi guys to upgrade from 14.04 to 16.01 it's just do-dist-upgrade right from the cli?
[17:47] <sadario> BluesKaj: Yeah. Don't see a button to swap to the correct output. I need a easy way to swap between speakers and headset
[17:48] <collins> okay
[17:48] <sadario> waaaait, nvm. Found it. Thanks a lot!
[17:50] <Dragonslicer> daum_- I think it's do-release-upgrade
[17:50] <Dragonslicer> You should also be able to do it from the update manager
[17:51] <daum_> Dragonslicer, er right - sorry ok good
[17:51] <daum_> it's downloading currently=p
[17:51] <BluesKaj> daum_,  sudo do-release-upgrade =, but make sure your update manager is set to LTS only and also update and upgrade your existing packages first
[17:52] <daum_> thanks!
[17:52] <BluesKaj> daum_, forget the =
[18:00] <Guest76875> test
[20:06] <daum_> hey guys - anyone else notice the fonts are really different after upgrading from 14.04 to 16.04/
 We moved from Oxygen or Ubuntu font to Noto Sans
[20:40] <allesszz> anyone willing to help me with a kontact issue?
[20:47] <clivejo> allesszz: most people run away screaming when you mention kontact
[20:47] <clivejo> but whats the issue?
[20:51] <daum_> IrcsomeBot, thanks - i think that was pointed at me that helped changing them back to oxygen for me
[21:59] <existenze> hey guys
[21:59] <existenze> what's the repo for plasma fixes?
[23:02] <mparillo> !backports


[00:00] <kksilvery> Thank you :)
[00:01] <tomreyn> you're welcome :)
[00:02] <tomreyn> kksilvery: actually, contacts are provided on the top of where there "Contribute" -> "User Manual" link points to on https://kdenlive.org/en/
[00:03] <kksilvery> I will check the webpage and find the IRC channel.
[00:06] <kksilvery> I must say, the open-source projects lack proper support.
 I need to confirm one more thing as well. My current version is Kubuntu 22.10 Development Branch and this happened when I removed zsh shell. Also my current SDDM isn’t the default one I’m using a third party SDDM from which the login fails. (re @IrcsomeBot: <arraybolt3[m]> @CrustyCrab55: I had a similar problem the other day (just kept getting "Unlocking failed" when trying to unlock the screen). I solved it by switching to a TTY (pr
 Is it related to bugs or common with every releases Ubuntu? (re @CrustyCrab55: I need to confirm one more thing as well. My current version is Kubuntu 22.10 Development Branch and this happened when I removed zsh shell. Also my current SDDM isn’t the default one I’m using a third party SDDM from which the login fails.)
[06:54] <arraybolt3[m]> I experienced this problem on Ubuntu Studio 22.04. I am quite certain this is a bug. I have never experienced this on Ubuntu 22.04 (GNOME desktop).
 GOMK
 c5@6
 K4P
 OE9R
 oE9r
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 finally
 the captcha were difficult
 Hi
 Is making my swap file 8 gb in kubuntu 22.04
 Is making my swap file 8 gb in kubuntu 22.04 is the same as 20.04
 Is making my swap file 8 gb in kubuntu 22.04 is the same as 20.04?
 Is making my swap file 8 gb in kubuntu 22.04 the same as 20.04?
[11:54] <tomreyn> should be
[12:18] <kksilvery> Hi
[12:30] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:41] <Elliria> Hey there. I came across the https://userbase.kde.org/Plasma/Krunner page and have been trying out some of the stuff in it. It says you can issue shell commands (like ls ~/Documents ), but nothing happens when I do that if I issue the command and press the Enter key.
[13:42] <Elliria> It works if I issue the command in Krunner and then click the little Konsole icon next to the search result, but I must do that.
[13:42] <Elliria> Is it a bug that pressing the Enter key doesn't give the same result?
[13:43] <Elliria> Interestingly, I can issue a pkill command to kill an existing process and that succeeds when the Enter key is pressed. It seems that anything that produces output is what's being prevented from working when the Enter key is pressed.
[13:43] <BluesKaj> I just use the konsole directly
[13:44] <Elliria> Yep, me, too. It's just kind of interesting what all you can do in Krunner.
[13:44] <BluesKaj> haen't used krunner much lately
[13:44] <BluesKaj> haven't
[13:45] <Elliria> Me, neither. I only use it for searches. Then I came across that page and saw a ton of things it can be used for.
[13:48] <oerheks> try ls /home/$USER/Documents  # with full path
[13:48] <mparillo> I frequently use it to launch programs that are not in my kicker favorites, and to do quick calculations (like if I have used 300 GB on the 12th of the month, am I in danger of hitting my cap ((300/12)*31)
[13:48] <BluesKaj> mostly  either in / with "view" with optional "hidden files" in dolphin when searching for files
[13:50] <Elliria> Same issue, oerheks. Nothing happens when I press the Enter key, but the terminal opens and I get output if I click the Konsole icon inside the Krunner search result.
[13:51] <Elliria> Yep. It works fine for things that don't need to produce output. I'm able to open Geany and then type pkill geany into Krunner and press the Enter key and it kills the Geany process.
[13:51] <Elliria> But I can't get a listing in a terminal window without clicking that Konsole icon.
[13:52] <Elliria> By the way, this is in a up-to-date copy of Kubuntu 22.04 LTS.
[14:01] <mparillo> And when I click on the Konsole icon, the command runs, but I do not get a prompt when it completes, so I simply close the window.
[14:07] <Elliria> Yep. Clicking the program's icon in the Krunner search result seems to work flawlessly. It's the press of the Enter key after putting a command into Krunner that doesn't always work, at least not with anything that produces output.
[14:07] <Elliria> I can type geany and press Enter and it just opens Geany.
[14:08] <Elliria> But if I type which geany and press the Enter key, nothing happens.
[14:08] <Elliria> And if I type which geany and click the Konsole icon in the search result, I get the expected output in Konsole.
[14:09] <Elliria> I looked for a bug report on this and there isn't one, so I'll make one.
 Please anyone here uses flstudio 20 on kubuntu? A music production daw
[17:09] <oerheks> PJtunes more likely in #ubuntu-studio , as it gives KDE as desktop too
[17:10] <oerheks> oh, and it is not free, paid.. less likely to find support in opensource channels
 Ohh ok thanks man
[17:37] <kksilvery> FL Studio. Nice.
[18:12] <kksilvery> Is there any Documentation contributor here?
[18:27] <oerheks> the documentation team work with mailinglists https://launchpad.net/kubuntu-docs
[18:27] <oerheks> maybe ahoneybun is online https://kubuntu.org/the-kubuntu-team/
[19:20] <sigma_> hi can you help , i have broken package qtbase-abi-5-15-3.  i try every thing , reinstall libqt5core5a , dist-upgrade but doesnt work !?
 I never used krunner, konsole is easier to use for me
[19:22] <sigma_> it can be for resposetory ?
 Go to #lau or to #opensourcemusicians, they can help you i think (re @PJtunes: Please anyone here uses flstudio 20 on kubuntu? A music production daw)
 But better to use ardour, because its opensource and have a 451 sote long documentation
 Site*
[19:39] <kksilvery> Let me ask them oerheks!
 Ok I'll check it out (re @Oski146: But better to use ardour, because its opensource and have a 451 sote long documentation)
 😊
[20:04] <kksilvery> :)


[02:14] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[07:22] <ducasse> good morning
[07:23] <lordievader> Good morning
[11:36] <croraf> Hi, I'm using GNOME terminal, and I see it is based on VTE. I'm confused on what the VTE provides, and what GNOME terminal provides on top?
[11:39] <croraf> Does VTE like provide all these graphical elements (which are customizable) and GNOME put them together?
[11:44] <ducasse> croraf: aiui vte is just the terminal widget
[11:45] <ducasse> i might be wrong, though, you should ask the gnome people
[11:50] <croraf> I'm confused about the term "widget". From my understanding widgets are buttons, scrolls, scroll wrappers, labels, plain panels. Every UI element is one widget.
[11:50] <croraf> ducasse,
[11:50] <croraf> what do you mean by gnome people, you mean irc gnome channel?
[11:51] <croraf> (if such exists)
[11:51] <ducasse> yeah, they have their own irc network, see their website
[11:52] <ducasse> the terminal inside the window is a widget
[11:52] <ducasse> aiui, at least
[12:39] <croraf> thanks
[19:37] <ash_worksi> so, once upon a time, several people helped me understand how the names of various services fit in the heirarchy of an ubuntu OS; re-reading the logs (thank you ducasse, sarnold, mgedmin, daftykins) I am left with 2 questions:
[19:42] <tomreyn> i think you have 4 people (those you just highlighted) waiting in tight anticipation for those 2 questions now.
[19:42] <ash_worksi> lol
[19:42] <ash_worksi> I keep proofing my questions
[19:43] <ash_worksi> and hopefully those 4 people just feel appreciated :)
[19:45] <ash_worksi> nonetheless, the general feeling I got was that dwm doesn't seem like a trival thing to implement especially (perhaps?) in an Ubuntu environment, but clearly people do..... rereading it, I think someone was saying it's just not easy to switch back-and-forth between gnome-shell and dwm so maybe that's not a question
[19:46] <ash_worksi> the other more direct question is: if you use something other than one of the main underlying programs associated with gnome (for example, dwm instead of gnome-shell), is it "gnome" anymore? and consequently is it ubuntu anymore?
[19:53] <sarnold> ash_worksi: there's a lot that goes into "ubuntu": the default choices made for every level of the stack, security support, community support, etc
[19:54] <sarnold> ash_worksi: there's kubuntu and xubuntu and lubuntu and ubuntu studio and I'm sure i"m missing some..
[19:54] <sarnold> ash_worksi: all are various takes on what it means to be "ubuntu"
[19:55] <sarnold> ash_worksi: dwm is far from trivial to implement because the way to configure dwm is to edit the source code and recompile it; that doesn't work well with tens of millions of users :) you're going to have a small group at best, and they'll all want it to be something different
[19:58] <ash_worksi> sarnold: so what are people running dwm on? archlinux or something?
[19:58] <sarnold> ash_worksi: or ubuntu or debian or gentoo or slackware or something they maintain themselves or void or nix or .. :)
[20:00] <ash_worksi> and are you basically saying, "it wouldn't be gnome because the pieces of software that make gnome are so tightly inter-dependant, that swapping one would effectively evolve a different DE" ?
[20:00] <ash_worksi> I see
[20:08] <sarnold> yeah once you take gnome-shelkl out of gnome, then you're 'just' using gnome applications with your own window manager :)
[20:14] <ash_worksi> thanks sarnold


[13:42]  * Kartagis is now playing Mabel Matiz - Barisirsa Ruhum
[14:31] <information_poor> selamlar


[00:10] <poolie> ah
[00:11] <poolie> i see vila updated the wiki page to be pilot again this week
[00:20] <james_w> hi poolie
[00:22] <james_w> we should have a call this week
[00:27] <poolie> ok
[00:27] <poolie> can be in 5m if you like, or earlier tomorrow
[00:28] <poolie> are you still in ca?
[00:28] <james_w> I'm not
[00:32] <james_w> I'm happy to chat now though
[01:05] <james_w> night
[04:55] <poolie> spiv, want to approve or object to https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mbp/bzr/progress/+merge/15997
[04:55] <poolie> it's pretty small
[04:59] <spiv> poolie: sure
[05:16] <poolie> thanks
[05:28] <wgrant> poolie: So the progress bar is not easily fixable? :(
[05:28] <poolie> in the sense of making it proportional to overall progress?
[05:29] <poolie> not _easily_
[05:29] <poolie> it is possible but it will be a bit street-by-street
[05:29] <wgrant> poolie: Or just volume downloaded, which is nearly correct and much easier.
[05:29] <poolie> i guess there is a risk with this patch the underlying overall progress will be worse
[05:29] <poolie> that would be easy to add
[05:33] <poolie> wgrant: in places where we do have an accurate overall count like "building files %d/%d" that will still show - and actually be more prominent
[05:38] <wgrant> poolie: How hard is that to do for the download involved in the initial checkout?
[05:38] <poolie> wgrant: maybe i should make a faq
[05:38] <poolie> there are a few things
[05:38] <poolie> the progress bar model is that there is a tree of tasks
[05:39] <poolie> and you compute the fractional completion across that tree
[05:39] <poolie> sometimes that tree structure doesn't correspond to what actually takes time
[05:39] <wgrant> Right.
[05:39] <poolie> 2- we try to do streaming operations that by design don't know up front how much work they're going to do
[05:40] <poolie> actually are you asking about showing the total download to date, or the total that will be downloaded?
[05:41] <wgrant> poolie: Both.
[05:41] <wgrant> poolie: Surely the server can tell you somehow how much there is to stream?
[05:42] <poolie> actually
[05:42] <poolie> do, or do-not
[06:08] <assad> i did a bzr  branch lp:~ but after doing the the fetching part it is not able to copy. how can i make it copy the fetched data i.e. complete the bzr process!
[06:09] <spiv> What do you mean by "it is not able to copy"?  Perhaps pastebin the error you are getting?
[07:48] <poolie> hi vila?
[08:04] <vila> hey  poolie
[08:04] <vila> hi all
[08:06] <poolie> hi there
[08:09] <poolie> still piloting this week?
[08:11] <vila> yup, there was no volunteer and it felt wrong to leave the patches without pilot :)
[08:11] <vila> I won't be able to do that next week though :)
[08:16] <poolie> ok
[08:16] <poolie> you don't _have_ to do it this week but it could be nice
[08:17] <vila> It's ok, there are still some rough edges in *my* workflow I'd like to polish :)
[08:19] <lifeless> I would like folk to clearly say how much time it took
[08:19] <lifeless> so that people that feel busy can assess whether they can do it
[08:19] <poolie> well
[08:20] <poolie> it may be a bit elastic
[08:20] <lifeless> sure
[08:20] <poolie> so we can try "i was really busy and could only give it 2h and ... (it still seemed useful | i was thrashing and it sucked | ...)"
[08:20] <lifeless> but data will help figure that out
[08:20] <lifeless> yes
[08:22] <vila> It can vary greatly depending on whether you "just" review or do some coding to help the patch succeeds
[08:24] <vila> but anyway, raw numbers says 14hours last week for me
[08:25] <vila> courtesy of the hamster time tracker applet (it rocks :)
[08:27] <lifeless> jwow
[08:56] <bialix> hello bzr
[09:23] <saedelaere> hi
[09:23] <saedelaere> i was asking this already a week ago, but i had to leave and i'am still unsure what to do.
[09:24] <saedelaere> i started using bazaar with the solo way described here
[09:24] <saedelaere> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.0/en/user-guide/solo_intro.html
[09:27] <saedelaere> now, i do want to release a stable version. in order to be able to continue development i need to make a new branch?!
[09:27] <saedelaere> so what i want to do is developing new code and have the original code of my stable release so i can fix errors if any occur.
[09:27] <saedelaere> i was reading about branches and so on, but i'Am not sure what to do, and a bit afraid i could mess up things...
[09:35] <saedelaere> ok for example i start with,
[09:35] <saedelaere> bzr branch bzr://foo-bar-baz stable.081
[09:35] <saedelaere> so this will create a new directory with the name stable.081
[09:35] <saedelaere> do i have to make this in the root directory of my main branch or i can i do it everywhere?
[09:35] <saedelaere> will the new branch and my main branch share history?
[09:36] <saedelaere> if it is important, the project is hosted by sourceforge.net
[09:46] <bialix> saedelaere: to ensure 2 branches will share history you need to put them into shared repository
[09:46] <bialix> otherwise 2 branches will be completely standalone
[09:47] <bialix> saedelaere: you can create as many branches as needed, you won't mess things
[09:48] <saedelaere> ok, this sounds good :)
[09:48] <saedelaere> the shared repo thing, is this recommended? or would you run different branches?
[09:48] <bialix> shared repo is recommended in most cases
[09:48] <bialix> it helps to reduce the size of storage for related branches
[09:49] <bialix> also creating copy of new branch inside shared repo is much quicker
[09:49] <bialix> because you don't need to copy entire history
[09:50] <saedelaere> ok then i have to reread the documentation about shared repos. but in general it is now problem to move my current project to a shared repo with the complete history?
[09:50] <saedelaere> s/now/no
[09:52] <saedelaere> ehm, when i started a project like this
[09:52] <saedelaere> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.0/en/user-guide/starting_a_project.html#starting-a-new-project
[09:52] <saedelaere> isn't this already a shared repository?
[09:53] <bialix> if you already executed init-repo command, then it is
[09:53] <bialix> you can check this easily with `bzr info` command
[09:53] <bialix> if it says about shared repo location, then your branch already uses shared repo
[09:54] <bialix> if you created shared repo after you created branch, you can reconfigure your branch to use shared repo, with `bzr reconfigure` command
[09:54] <saedelaere> so this doesn't look like a shared repo.
[09:54] <saedelaere> http://www.pastebin.org/64665
[09:55] <bialix> what says `bzr info<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[09:55] <bialix> your local branch is not used shared repo, yes
[09:58] <saedelaere> bialix: http://pastebin.org/64667
[09:58] <bialix> you have shared repo and the branch on the server
[09:59] <bialix> usually branches placed one level behind repo root
[09:59] <bialix> but your setup will work too
[09:59] <saedelaere> hmm it was no special setup :D
[10:00] <bialix> you just need to create new branches under tv-viewer.bzr.sourceforge.net/bzrroot/tv-viewer/
[10:04] <saedelaere> bialix you mean something like this?
[10:04] <saedelaere> bzr branch bzr://tv-viewer.bzr.sourceforge.net/bzrroot/tv-viewer/<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:04] <bialix> yep
[10:07] <saedelaere> bialix: http://pastebin.org/64668
[10:07] <saedelaere> this is it , right?
[10:07] <saedelaere> ha
[10:07] <bialix> saedelaere: perfectly
[10:07] <saedelaere> thank you very much for your time!
[10:07] <bialix> happy to help
[10:09] <saedelaere> cd ls
[10:09] <saedelaere> ups
[10:16] <saedelaere> bialix one more question. if i want to work on the code for the stable release is it better to do a checkout of the branch or do it with bzr branch?
[10:16] <bialix> it depends how you feel more comfortable
[10:17] <bialix> checkout will automatically copy all your new revisions on the server
[10:19] <bialix> with branch you need push your new revisions from time to time manually
[10:27] <saedelaere> i'Am currently searching for an alternative server where i could push my bazaar repos. i know of sourceforge and launchpad, is there a list somewhere of free alternatives?
[10:27] <bialix> also savannah
[10:27] <lifeless> and that .fr hosting service
[10:27] <bialix> but you can use any cheap web-hosting with ssh/ftp access
[10:27] <bob2> berlios
[10:28] <bialix> hmm, I did not know
[10:28] <bialix> hi all
[10:30] <lifeless> hi ;)
[10:31]  * bialix waves to lifeless
[10:36] <saedelaere> ok there are some alternatives out there. have to check them. thanks for all your help!
[15:02] <jam>  morning all
[15:18] <rubbs> morning jam
[15:44] <bialix> morning jam
[16:35] <vila> jam: morning !
[16:51] <jam> hey vila
[16:52] <vila> jam: you're still the RM for 2.0.3 right ?
[16:52] <jam> Supposedly
[16:52] <jam> I didn't do that good of a job on 2.0.2 / 2.1.0b3 :)
[16:52] <jam> since they *still* aren't officially announced
[16:52] <jam> but yeah, I should be doing the 2.0.3 / 2.1.0b4 prep work
[16:53] <vila> jam: I see, "procastinate long enough and it will disapear" ftw !
[16:53] <jam> or I get fired and somebody else does the work, yeah something like that
[16:53] <jam> but nobody really likes releasing
[16:54] <vila> and you don't seem to get fired any time soon :)
[16:54] <jam> at least, nobody is clamoring to do it
[16:55] <vila> is that the same nobody that wanted to be patch pilot this week ? :-)
[16:55] <jam> vila: yeah, nobody is pretty active lately
[16:56] <vila> nobody: take it easy, we don't want you to burn out !
[16:57] <vila> We should do more Call For Participation for both patch pilot and release manager (though PP may have higher requirements surprisingly...)
[16:58] <vila> And I've yet to be a real RM (that may be due to all my mistakes when I've been acting RM :)
[16:58] <rubbs> I'd help out, if I knew what I was doing ;) as it happens, I'm still bumbling around with doc patches. Nothing serious yet.
[16:59] <vila> doc is serious, you may do even more damage with doc than with code !
[16:59] <vila> haha, only half joking
[17:01] <rubbs> fair enough
[17:24] <jam> rubbs: "It is safe to rm -rf / at any time"
[17:24] <jam> would be a pretty nasty doc bug :)
[17:24] <jam> sorry
[17:24] <jam> "sudo rm -rf /"
[18:17] <hsn> who removed eclipse bzr plugin download from bazaar-vcs.org?
[18:18] <hsn> it was at http://bazaar-vcs.org/releases/3rd-party/bzr-eclipse/
[18:24] <mtaylor> arrrg. bzr-notify bubbles could really go away when I mouse over them.
[18:26] <jam> hsn: It was never 'actually' there, but we had a redirect to the actual place
[18:27] <jam> it got lost in the shuffle of transitioning to bazaar.canonical.com
[18:28] <jam> hsn: http://qbzreclipse.tribalo.com.ar is the actual hosting location
[18:31] <hsn> jam, it seems to be different plugin
[20:07] <jam> ah sorry, you wanted bzr-eclipse not qbzr-eclipse, I'm not sure where the official location is, or if it just hasn't updated in a long time
[21:28] <davidstrauss> What happens if you use the --directory option on a merge and there's a conflict?
[21:28] <davidstrauss> Or must --directory be a local tree?
[21:52] <lifeless> jam: hi
[21:53] <lifeless> jam: wondering if you'd like to review the subunit2junitxml patch I wrote for you :)
[21:57] <poolie> jam: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jaunty/en/man7/tcp.7.html
[22:19] <jam> hi lifeless, I knew I'd see you around :)
[22:21] <lifeless> jam: :)
[22:21] <lifeless> personal itches getting scratched
[22:27] <lifeless> jam: jml is releasing testtools this lunchtime, and reviewing my subunit protocol branch. After which, we'll be able to land my subunit branch of bzr
[22:27] <lifeless> which has had only comments so far ;)
[22:28] <lifeless> but it makes selftest --parallel include the log file, etc.
[22:29] <jam> poolie: looking at the openssh source code, the only time SO_SNDBUF is mentioned is in a "get_snd_buf_size" it doesn't seem to ever get set.
[22:30] <jam> so a) there doesn't seem to be any way for us to set it, and b) ssh itself doesn't seem to set it to anything bigger than the 4k default
[22:32] <lifeless> LD_PRELOAD ? :P
[22:32] <jam> you have to set the option on the socket between the time when you allocate it and when you call connect or listen
[22:34] <lifeless> jam: yes, wrap socket()
[22:35] <lifeless> on b.l.n. we don't use openssh anyway
[22:35] <jam> sure
[22:35] <jam> paramiko doesn't have a hook point for it either
[22:35] <jam> I don't know about twisted
[22:35] <jam> I was hoping to test it via chinstrap
[22:35] <jam> but that looks to be difficult
[22:38] <jam> as I don't think I can just "bzr serve" and I can't get at the ssh socket options...
[22:40] <lifeless> use a linode or something
[22:40] <lifeless> or an ec2 instance
[22:40] <lifeless> (europe zone)
[22:41] <lifeless> but as I think I've said already, get it sorted without ssh first, as ssh is known to mess with this.
[22:41] <jam> Well, just getting it out of my home machine would be a benefit.
[22:41] <jam> Even if it was US
[22:41] <lifeless> we do have an allowance for clcoud experiments
[22:41] <jam> I had tried vila's babune, but his upload cap is lower than my download cap
[22:41] <jam> On the plus side, we fully utilize it without problems :)
[22:43] <tsmith> bzr on Win32 is *kicking my ass* today!
[22:43] <tsmith> when I do a $ bzr diff on a *single* file, either via the commandline or Tortoise, i get this:  bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.NoSuchRevision: KnitPackRepository('file:///c/www/adportal/.bzr/repository/') has no revision
[22:44] <jam> tsmith: is this on a bzr-svn revision?
[22:44] <tsmith> yes
[22:44] <tsmith> jam: yes
[22:45] <jam> this is probably the "bzr diff doesn't work with ghosts" issue
[22:45] <jam> tsmith: bug #393837
[22:45] <tsmith> what's a ghost?
[22:46] <tsmith> something VERY peculiar happened to SVN... branches i created w/ bzr-svn *disappeared*
[22:46] <tsmith> and then this problem happened
[22:46] <tsmith> i lost like 4 weeks worth of work
[22:47] <jam> tsmith: a ghost is a revision which is mentioned but not actually present
[22:48] <jam> pushing from bzr => svn will tend to create them for merge revisions
[22:48] <tsmith> how do i recover it???
[22:48] <jam> because svn will not actually contain the merged revisions
[22:48] <jam> I'm not really sure what the issue is for branches disappearing
[22:48] <jam> did someone delete them ?
[22:48] <jam> Can you check the svn log directly?
[22:48] <jam> as for bzr
[22:48] <tsmith> no i mean i had ~40 comits in one then i came back 3 weeks later and only the initial "create branch" revision was there
[22:49] <jam> well, if someone is mutating your svn repo in destructive ways, it is going to cause problems for br
[22:49] <jam> bzr
[22:49] <tsmith> i was thinking hard drive failure, honestly
[22:50] <jam> so if the revisions were originally in bzr somewhere
[22:50] <jam> then 'bzr pull'ing from that bzr repo
[22:50] <jam> rather than via svn
[22:50] <jam> would be a way to fill in the ghosts
[22:51] <tsmith> i dont know
[22:51] <tsmith> how do i fix ghost revisions?
[22:52] <jam> tsmith: you 'bzr pull -r revid:XXXX' whatever revision was missing from wherever they actually exist
[22:53] <tsmith> revno: 156 [merge]
[22:53] <tsmith>  would that be a "ghost revision"?
[22:53] <jam> presumably someone pushed changes to svn
[22:53] <tsmith> how do i find out the missing revision?
[22:53] <jam> and then you pulled from svn rather than the original bzr branch
[22:53] <jam> tsmith: at the moment, by figuring out what revision is part of the traceback
[22:53] <tsmith> you're speaking greek
[22:54] <tsmith> do you mean the missing revision is mentioend in the crash debug message?
[22:55] <tsmith> http://pastebin.ca/1714989 <-- error
[22:55] <tsmith> revision<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:55] <tsmith>
[22:55] <tsmith> is *that* the "revision number"?
[22:56] <jam> tsmith: if you did the work locally in bzr, then you wouldn't have lots the work. I honestly don't have a good understanding of how your are interoperating with bzr and svn
[22:56] <tsmith> ok
[22:56] <tsmith> it's like this
[22:56] <jam> tsmith: that is the "revision id"
[22:56] <tsmith> i am programming a website
[22:56] <jam> and yes, that is what you are looking for
[22:56] <tsmith> i have several branches for each defect/feature
[22:56] <tsmith> when i program one, i branch the SVN repository,i commit locally, push to SVN branch, test on server
[22:57] <tsmith> then when it's time to do the next feature, I bzr switch to another SVN branch, commit locally, push to SVN branch, test on server
[22:57] <tsmith> i assumed SVN was storing copies of my work, so i didn't
[22:57] <tsmith> 3 weeks go by on different projects, come back, work is gone, had just reformatted my computer too
[22:58] <jam> tsmith: are you using a 'shared repository' locally?
[22:58] <tsmith> no via https:// over the internet
[22:59] <jam> tsmith: so, #1, you'll want to do "bzr init-repo ." above all of your feature branches
[22:59] <jam> that will make creating them much faster, etc, etc.
[22:59] <jam> then you can do
[22:59] <jam> bzr reconfigure --use-shared
[22:59] <jam> in each one
[22:59] <tsmith> i asked someone about that several weeks ago
[22:59] <jam> at that point, I *think* your ghosts will be gone
[22:59] <jam> as all the branches will talk to eachother and fill in appropriate history
[22:59] <jam> not positive, though
[23:00] <tsmith> did you know that cygwin bzr doesn't support https:// authentication?
[23:04] <jam> tsmith: It probably does if you find the python-ssl package for cygwin somehow
[23:05] <jam> personally, I find cygwin bzr to be crappy to start with, so I've avoided it entirely
[23:09] <jam> lifeless: well, there also seems to be: "They can        be    set    globally    with   the   /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_wmem   and        /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_rmem files" though that would mean having root on chinstrap, which isn't going to happen :)
[23:45] <poolie> james_w: hi, still around, want to chat?
[23:45] <james_w> hi poolie
[23:45] <james_w> not tonight really
[23:46] <poolie> ok
[23:46] <poolie> no problem
[23:47] <poolie> we could talk tonight my time if you like?
[23:47] <poolie> just suggest a time?
[23:47] <james_w> no, I've got a personal day tomorrow
[23:48] <james_w> so either tomorrow night or thursday morning your time is best for me