[00:06] <jarnos> cjwatson, here is the ppa: https://launchpad.net/~jarnos/+archive/ubuntu/ppa-purge though apt update fails after you add it due to some signing issue.
[00:07] <cjwatson> jarnos: If you only just created it, give it a little bit - it takes a short while for some of the signing bits of entirely new PPAs to be generated.
[00:09] <cjwatson> You can see on https://launchpad.net/~jarnos/+archive/ubuntu/ppa-purge/+packages that your upload hasn't been published yet, so wait for that
[00:16] <jarnos> cjwatson, oh, I do not quite understand what is the meaning for the "Publish" setting in "Change details" dialog of the ppa. Currently I have it disabled.
[00:19] <cjwatson> jarnos: Why would you disable that?
[00:20] <cjwatson> I mean, it's on by default and you manually turned it off - why fiddle with a setting you don't understand?
[00:21] <cjwatson> It also says what it means in language that I think is fairly clear: "Whether or not to update the apt repository. If disabled, nothing will be published. If the archive is private then additionally no builds will be dispatched."
 I do not remember anymore, maybe because I created the ppa page, but was not able to create or upload packages. I also tried to change the setting, but it did not help right away. But as you said, I'll have to give it time to publish.
[00:24] <mwhudson> cjwatson: seeing as you are here, any idea when launchpad-buildd will be rolled out?
[00:25] <cjwatson> mwhudson: It's in IS's hands.  https://portal.admin.canonical.com/C122831
[00:25] <mwhudson> cjwatson: thanks
[00:26] <jarnos> cjwatson, apparently the setting does not affect to the visibility of the ppa in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=ppa-purge
[00:28] <cjwatson> jarnos: Probably because you've never actually allowed Launchpad to publish packages there (the "publish" flag still appears to be off) so the PPA is empty.  It shows up if you select "Including descriptions of empty PPAs"
[00:28] <cjwatson> jarnos: Oh, you mean that it doesn't make it invisible if you turn it off?
[00:29] <jarnos> cjwatson, something like that
[00:29] <cjwatson> jarnos: Right, so now that I look, a pending publication is enough to make the PPA search consider it non-empty.  *shrug*
[00:31] <cjwatson> jarnos: Disabling the "Enabled" flag would make it invisible in the PPA search.  But alternatively you could just check "Publish" and let it sort itself out ...
[00:32] <cjwatson> (Which will take a short while - publishing is a cron job that cycles through all PPAs that have changed since the last time)
[00:34] <jarnos> ok, I have enabled the flag.
[00:39] <jarnos> cjwatson, BTW. the I want to publish the ppa for many distributions, not just bionic. I suppose it can be done at https://launchpad.net/~jarnos/+archive/ubuntu/ppa-purge/+copy-packages
[00:43] <jarnos> cjwatson, ppa-purge is a shell script so maybe "Rebuild the copied sources" would do or is the other option better? I also had to do some settings in debian/compat and debian/control files that might restrict which distribution can be used, right?
[00:46] <jarnos> I had to put only "bionic" in the changelog, though, because otherwise I got some error when building.
[01:00] <jarnos> cjwatson, the publishing went fine for the bionic distribution. I copied it to some other distributions using "Copy existing binaries" option and will see, if they succeed, too.
[13:25] <cpaelzer> rafaeldtinoco: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/d/debci/bionic/armhf is odd
[13:25] <cpaelzer> rafaeldtinoco: it seems to ahve failed for about always and I'm sure a badtest is in place
[13:25]  * rafaeldtinoco checks
[13:25] <cpaelzer> it is in place
[13:26] <cpaelzer> I guess something (tm) failed and made it detect the version as "unknown"
[13:26] <cpaelzer> since the badtest is only for 1.7.1 it didn't detect that
[13:26] <cpaelzer> I have restarted it
[13:26] <cpaelzer> hopefully it detects 1.7.1 properly and will then handle it as badtest as expected
[13:27] <rafaeldtinoco> but if it was already as bad test
[13:28] <rafaeldtinoco> why would it have failed before ?
[13:28] <rafaeldtinoco> 2019-11-15 18:06:33 UTC
[13:28] <rafaeldtinoco> for example ?
[13:28] <cpaelzer> rafaeldtinoco: result => fail, but badtest let it pass
[13:28] <rafaeldtinoco> gotcha
[14:58] <teward> cjwatson: raysession for Studio is still returning lintian fail on source-contains-unsafe-symlink in policy, which suggests that just putting in the .links file is not enough to 'solve' the core issue.  Not sure what to do about that one, or whether we should handwave that for upload inclusion.  It'll take another point release upstream for them to actually fix the unsafe symlink issue in the source code.
[14:58] <cjwatson> It should not be handwaved.  Somebody should actually debug it
[14:59] <teward> cjwatson: that's what i thought.  we know the cause though
[14:59] <teward> Upstream has a hardcoded link in 0.8.2
[14:59] <cjwatson> It doesn't require an upstream release
[14:59] <cjwatson> I mean obviously that's ideal but it's not a requirement
[14:59] <cjwatson> I gave a collection of possible tools you (plural) could use to deal with it
[14:59] <cjwatson> .links was just one of them
[14:59] <teward> you mean Eickmeyer can use :P
[14:59] <teward> Eickmeyer's the one managing this
[14:59] <cjwatson> Not my problem to assign work :)
[14:59] <teward> so I'm assuming then that this is NACKed then :P
[15:00] <teward> Eickmeyer: ^ NACK on the upload request until we *really* dig into this and fix it.  Or upstream fixes it :P
[15:00] <cjwatson> Not that I'm particularly authoritative, but I would nack that, yes
[15:00] <teward> right now i walked into the workplace and discovered a literal ton of email evils I have to fix
[15:00] <teward> looks like the mail gateways stopped filtering spam :?
[15:00] <teward> (Bypass mode anyone? >.>)
[15:05] <rafaeldtinoco> cpaelzer: im finishing up ndctl "testcase" for the sru template
[15:05] <rafaeldtinoco> not sure if I can reproduce
[15:05] <rafaeldtinoco> i *think* recent qemus changed place where virtual nvdimm labels are placed, unsure if bug can be reproduced, will give a try a little bit more
[15:06] <rafaeldtinoco> best would be to have the user to verify :\
[15:10] <cpaelzer> rafaeldtinoco: you mean new qemu will have it working while the bug as reported against xx ?
[15:10] <cpaelzer> old HW or old qemu?
[15:10] <rafaeldtinoco> cpaelzer: im trying to find out that, but, yes
[15:11] <rafaeldtinoco> QEMU v2.7.0 and later implement the label support for vNVDIMM devices.
[15:11] <cpaelzer> if we can't get it happen to us then sponsoring to the SRU queue should wait until the reporter checked the affected HW with the PPAs
[15:11] <rafaeldtinoco> basically im trying to have a label-size as big as 256k, that would trigger the error in some kernels afaik.
[15:11] <cpaelzer> I'd not want to bother the SRU team with an issue we can't confir on our side
[15:11] <rafaeldtinoco> cpaelzer: +1 on that
[15:11] <rafaeldtinoco> im not super confident if they can't say it fixed the issue
[15:11] <cpaelzer> ok, let me know later on how these tests turned out
[15:11] <rafaeldtinoco> and its not *that* important
[15:12] <cpaelzer> ack, you are free to require some participation of the reporter - especially for a universe package that you just want to kindly fix while coming along
[15:13] <rafaeldtinoco> failed to create namespace: Inappropriate ioctl for device
[15:13] <rafaeldtinoco> alright
[15:13] <rafaeldtinoco> its 3 bug in one
[15:13] <rafaeldtinoco> i can reproduce this one ^
[15:13] <rafaeldtinoco> :o)
[15:13] <rafaeldtinoco> will comment in case after lunch, bbs
[15:27] <Eickmeyer> teward, cjwatson: Upstream fixed, will be working on this later.
[15:34] <cjwatson> Eickmeyer,teward: FYI the .links approach would have worked fine if you'd got the arguments the right way round.
[15:34] <cjwatson> Eickmeyer,teward: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/hTvsCJ9dnD/
[15:35] <teward> heh, indeed
[15:35] <cjwatson> (I ran the build with DH_VERBOSE=1, peered at the output for 10s or so, and it became clear)
[15:37] <teward> pushed that alteration, thanks cjwatson.  Hopefully lintian won't explode this time :)
[15:38] <Eickmeyer> cjwatson: Cool. Though, probably all for not, upstream fixed the problem and did a 0.8.3 release.
[15:38] <cjwatson> Education for next time :)
[15:39] <teward> cjwatson: fun fact though...
[15:39] <teward> even with that change, it still triggers the same source-contains-unsafe-symlink Lintian error against the source package
[15:39] <Eickmeyer> cjwatson: Indeed. I'll pull what you've got and see what you did, because education is FUNdamental (tm).
[15:40] <teward> so while there's no issue in the generated binaries, it errors with source pkg's src/bin/ray_control because *that* symlink is still bad
[15:40] <teward> (in the orig tarball)
[15:40] <teward> at least AFAICT
[15:40] <Eickmeyer> Yes, that's exactly what I was running into as well.
[15:40] <teward> but since 0.8.3 was released and contains a fix, i'll wait for that
[15:40] <teward> then we can strip the .links file out and then make sure everything works
[15:42] <cjwatson> teward: If it were necessary to upload this before 0.8.3, then the source package error could be ignored
[15:42] <cjwatson> It's tolerable as long as the binary is correct
[15:44] <cjwatson> (It's still not great because the source package might do weird things if unpacked on some systems.)
[18:05] <Odd_Bloke> I just ran `ubuntu-bug /var/crash/...` for a focal crash I saw.  I didn't get redirected to a Launchpad page (as `ubuntu-bug` does under normal/other operation), is that expected?  If so, what should I expect to happen next?
[18:44] <rbasak> Is urgent action needed on bug 1853614?
[18:44] <rbasak> I'm not sure how we handle microcode regressoins.
[19:10] <tjaalton> tyhicks: ^
[19:13] <sarnold> tyhicks is out this week; as is sbeattie. we've only ever reverted a cpu microcode update in the past when intel asked us to. we don't know what issues are fixed or mitigated in this update nor what is broken.
[19:36] <infinity> sarnold: Given the "me toos" on the bug, seems pretty clear that (at least) the EPYC 7xxx series is just entirely broken by the update.
[19:37] <infinity> Do we have contacts at AMD to escalate to?
[19:37] <sarnold> infinity: I'm not sure; I've emailed the firmware uploader and amd's psirt team, hopefully they'll know someone who has some idea what's in that update
[19:38] <infinity> sarnold: I mean, even if we don't know what's in it, while "can't boot" is the most secure state of all, I'm pretty sure "can boot, but has some bugs" is more appealing to customers. :P
[19:56] <seb128> hum, one autopkgtest question for the channel
[19:56] <seb128> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/c/chiark-tcl/focal/amd64
[19:56] <seb128> the test use 'Restrictions: skip-not-installable'
[19:57] <seb128> which I guess leads to the result being a code
[19:57] <seb128> but then https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#tcl8.6 considers those as a fail
[19:58] <seb128> what component is to blame?
[19:58] <seb128> autopkgtest to return the wrong result?
[19:58] <seb128> Laney, vorlon, juliank, ^ one of you might know?
[20:02] <juliank> I guess britney needs to learn about exit code 14, like it does for other exit codes
[20:02] <juliank>         # allow some skipped tests, but nothing else
[20:02] <juliank>         passed = exitcode in [0, 2, 8]
[20:02] <juliank> needs 14 in it
[20:03] <juliank> OTOH, 14 is listed as 14   erroneous package and at least one test skipped
[20:03] <juliank> seb128: There is a crypto--def          FAIL badpkg
[20:03] <juliank> hence it's 14
[20:04] <seb128> juliank, ah, thanks
[20:58] <Odd_Bloke> Reupping my earlier question (with a different tool used): if I run `apport-cli /var/crash/_usr_bin_neomutt.1000.crash` and select send report, I get a bunch of dots on screen and then the program exits with no further output.  Should I be being directed to a Launchpad bug report form, or is this expected behaviour?  If this is the expected behaviour, how can I find out what happened to my crash report?
[20:58] <rbasak> Ah
[20:58] <rbasak> I do know the answer to that I think ;)
[20:59] <rbasak> Normally it uploads to LP and then you get a unique URL to go to to finish the report in the web UI
[20:59] <rbasak> And it also tries to open the URL using xdg-open or similar.
[20:59] <rbasak> Is it possible that your XDG link opening is broken?
[21:00] <rbasak> Does "xdg-open https://www.ubuntu.com" work
[21:00] <rbasak> ?
[21:00] <juliank> hmm standard monospace rendering seems broken, at least in gedit, it renders underscores as spaces
[21:00] <mwhudson> Odd_Bloke, rbasak: it should print the url too i think
[21:01] <rbasak> Yes but I'm wondering if it does that before or after attempting the XDG open
[21:01] <rbasak> If before, and that crashes, then that might explain this behaviour
[21:01] <mwhudson> i thought before, as in it prints the url then asks you if you want it to open the link\
[21:01] <mwhudson> but let me check
[21:02] <Odd_Bloke> xdg-open is working fine.
[21:02] <mwhudson> Odd_Bloke: this is the output i get https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/tPGRK5bkYg/
[21:02] <mwhudson> Odd_Bloke: can you pastebin yours?
[21:05] <Odd_Bloke> mwhudson: This time it just exited after I pressed "s".
[21:06] <mwhudson> Odd_Bloke: nice
[21:06] <Odd_Bloke> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9VwdCfrMsv/
[21:06] <mwhudson> Odd_Bloke: $?
[21:08] <Odd_Bloke> mwhudson: Prompt.
[21:21] <mwhudson> Odd_Bloke: sorry i mean, is it exiting with code 0 or something else?
[21:32] <infinity> Odd_Bloke: Is this on a stable or devel release?
[21:33] <infinity> Or focal, which is still in stable mode...
[21:33] <Odd_Bloke> This is on focal, and it's exiting 0.
[21:34] <infinity> Pretty sure this behaviour is by design.
[21:35] <infinity> bdmurray: Say, should we make apport's bug reporting behaviour be based on distro-info telling us if we're stable or devel, instead of having to manually flip it around?
[21:35] <infinity> Odd_Bloke: OOI, try reverting the last hunk of http://launchpadlibrarian.net/446044154/apport_2.20.11-0ubuntu7_2.20.11-0ubuntu8.diff.gz and see if it behaves in a way you expect.
[21:40] <Odd_Bloke> infinity: Yep, that lets me go through the full flow I would expect.
[21:58] <bdmurray> infinity: Martin previously had opinions about enabling apport later on in the devel cycle and turning it off early but I think that's outdated and using distro-info might be better.
[22:01] <infinity> bdmurray: Well, one could use distro-info-data and parse the actual dates.
[22:01] <infinity> bdmurray: If we wanted to, say, delay by two weeks to allow the first auto-sync to settle, or whatever.
[22:02] <infinity> Although, one can synthesize that with distro-info too, by asking it about future/past dates.  Which is probably the "correct" way.


[00:49] <ali1234> Azelphur: gnome-tweak-tool
[00:56] <Azelphur> fun, I ended up using ubuntu tweak
[01:16] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Heading Towards 0.2 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/22/heading-towards-0-2/
[02:34] <kat_> Hi
[06:16] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu 12.04: Parentally Precise - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/22/ubuntu-12-04-parentally-precise/
[07:03] <AlanBell> morning people
[07:05] <Azelphur> AlanBell: morning, did you see the news on phoronix? :D
[07:06] <AlanBell> about text tracking zoom in wayland?
[07:06] <Azelphur> yep :D
[07:06] <Azelphur> pc going to good use already hehe
[07:11]  * popey points Azelphur at soreau
[07:11]  * Azelphur knows :D
[07:12] <soreau> :-)
[07:23] <diplo> Morning all
[07:31] <AlanBell> http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ everything is GO again
[07:31] <diplo> popey: Can you say something in bitfolk ive just added an ignore for joins/parts in irssi and i wonder if it's ignored everything
[07:31] <diplo> :)
[07:31] <diplo> ta
[07:33] <popey> woohoo! dropped a disk from my btrfs array
[07:34] <popey> whilst online and under active use
[07:35] <DJones> popey: Was that done as a test to see what happened, or just because you could
[07:35] <popey> because I need to juggle disks about
[07:35] <popey> wanted to make sure I could
[07:35] <popey> diplo: done
[07:36] <diplo> ta, I'd say /ignore is set then :D
[07:40] <Nafallo> morning!
[07:40] <diplo> morning, that was enthusiastic Nafallo :)
[07:41] <Nafallo> so is my trippel expresso. sooo needed this morning.
[07:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings
[07:41] <diplo> Moaning :)
[07:41] <diplo> T Minus 3 minutes!
[07:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> I thought is was meauning?
[07:42] <Azelphur> is that the private launch again?
[07:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> until what diplo
[07:42] <diplo> Well I'm moaning, kids wore me out last night, and woke me up at 5am this morning
[07:42] <diplo> spaceX
[07:42] <diplo> http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
[07:43] <Nafallo> breakfast time!
[07:43] <Nafallo> early at work, so yeah...
[07:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> what is spaceX diplo?
[07:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Apart from a rocket that is?
[07:43] <diplo> Private rocket, first one to visit the Space Station
[07:43] <Nafallo> sabdfl's fork of Xorg?
[07:43] <diplo> heh
[07:43] <Nafallo> oh
[07:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - This is the unmanned one right?
[07:43] <diplo> yeah
[07:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
[07:44] <AlanBell> this one is a robot, but I think they have one that will take 7 people
[07:44] <Azelphur> i bet they are all sitting there thinking "It better work this time" lol
[07:44] <diplo> lol
[07:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
[07:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> late again!
[07:44] <diplo> 10 seconds.....
[07:45] <diplo> It's going up
[07:45] <Azelphur> woo, working xD
[07:45] <Azelphur> inb4 it blows up
[07:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> where was it launched from?
[07:45] <AlanBell> cape canaveral
[07:46] <Azelphur> vehicle is supersonic o.O
[07:46] <AlanBell> looks like it is working well this time
[07:47] <Azelphur> indeed, looks like they've got it :D
[07:48] <Azelphur> there goes the detach
[07:49] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:49] <Azelphur> hello
[07:49] <Azelphur> haha, only going 6710mph
[07:50] <Azelphur> 7605 now \o/
[07:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bring on Sabre - there has to be a better way to get into space than that. http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre.html
[07:51] <diplo> has it been tried yet TheOpenSourcerer ?
[07:51] <Azelphur> up to 9000mph now xD
[07:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> They have built a test engine yes. In oxford.
[07:51] <Azelphur> clearly needs to go faster \o/
[07:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cools incoming air from 1000'c to -110'c in <100ms or something mad like that.
[07:52] <diplo> jeesh
[07:52] <Azelphur> 11,184mph :o
[07:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17864782
[07:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> "The message is that Britain has the next step beyond the jet engine; that we can reduce the world to four hours"
[07:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> plunge the intake gases to minus 140C in just 1/100th of a second.
[07:54] <Azelphur> yay clapping people :D
[07:54] <diplo> heh it's in Orbit, good work
[07:55] <Azelphur> they almost have as many monitors as I do
[07:55] <diplo> Just going to have a read TheOpenSourcerer
[07:55] <diplo> then i suppose i better to do some work
[07:55] <diplo> :P
[07:55] <Azelphur> that awkward moment when you realise you have more monitors than the average NASA employee
[07:56]  * diplo is using 4 atm
[07:56] <Azelphur> same xD
[07:57] <andylockran> anyone else watching spacex.com/webcast ?
[07:57] <Azelphur> yep, that's what we are all talking about
[07:57] <diplo> heh
[07:57] <andylockran> was scrolled up
[07:58] <andylockran> looks like someone could have tidied up the cabling...
[07:58] <Azelphur> haha, better cabling than I have :x
[07:59] <andylockran> is this not anchorman 2?
[08:00] <Azelphur> suddenly huge technology downgrade
[08:00] <Azelphur> you can see the budget cuts lol
[08:01] <andylockran> their twitter account fail :
[08:01] <andylockran> NASAKennedy #dragonlaunch successful - Spacecraft is not in orbit after on-time launch. twitpic.com/9nx6mo
[08:01] <Azelphur> lmao
[08:01] <Azelphur> they deleted it :P
[08:01] <hoover> morning all
[08:05] <Azelphur> guess that's all xD
[08:05] <diplo> heh
[08:12] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:27] <daubers> Morning
[08:27]  * daubers has given up with Thunderbird and it's wacky SSL cert oddities and gone back to mutt
[08:28] <bigcalm> Morning
[08:30]  * gord does his daily fist shaking at thunderbird
[08:36] <christel> morning
[08:37] <AlanBell> o/ christel
[08:37] <christel> hello AlanBell :)
[08:38] <popey> gord: you using an external display on your x220 at the moment
[08:38] <popey> ?
[08:39] <popey> if I plug a display into mine, the system locks up hard
[08:39] <popey> i have to REISUB to reboot. suggestions welcome!
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> REISUB?
[08:39] <popey> sysrq, you know
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> ah.. SUB :)
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> I don't do the REI bit
[08:40] <popey> i dunno where to look
[08:40] <MartijnVdS> popey: kernel log?
[08:41] <popey> which one?
[08:43] <daubers> syslog or kern.log probably (if it's a driver thing)
[08:43] <gord> popey, nope, but didn't have any issues with plugging into displays in oakland
[08:44] <popey> neither did I
[08:44] <popey> but this only started yesterday afternoon
[08:44] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:44] <daubers> o/
[08:45] <brobostigon> o/
[08:45] <bigcalm> \o/
[08:45] <gord> popey, see if neil is having problems? he drives a bunch of monitors from his
[08:52] <bigcalm> gord: you've been infected by an American phrase "bunch of"
[08:55] <gord> bigcalm, thats american? the song "lover-ley bunch of coconuts" begs to differ
[08:55] <bigcalm> gord: that's acceptable. When something like that can be called a bunch (see flowers)
[09:12] <czajkowski> bah no balor
[09:12]  * czajkowski hugs christel
[09:15] <christel> thanks i needed that
[09:26] <awilkins> Is it just me, or is Ruby horrible?
[09:26] <s-fox> Hello MooDoo :)
[09:27] <awilkins> I suppose it might just be the tutorial I'm doing that makes Ruby look horrible
[09:31] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: Ruby is the bastard child of Perl, Python and PHP
[09:32] <diplo> heh MartijnVdS, RoR seems ok when I looked at it, but tbh I cba to look/learn another language
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> diplo: does the language support unicode yet? :)
[09:35] <directhex> but is it webscale?
[09:35] <directhex> IME the problem with ruby is it eats all the ram
[09:35] <directhex> ALL THE RAM
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> yeah
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> we run puppet
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> it does that too
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> it's ruby
[09:37] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, I'm just doing a tutorial and really hating things like the Dir class having methods... and an indexer (for searching on wildcards).. and the FileUtils.cp method being "cp"
[09:38] <directhex> also, ruby's developers are incredibly hostile towards distributions
[09:38] <directhex> debian almost dropped it totally
[09:38] <diplo> MartijnVdS: Seems it does in v1.9?
[09:38] <awilkins> Just adopted Redmine, hence the Ruby
[09:39] <awilkins> Almost wish Redmine didn't suit us so well now I have have a semi-formed opinion of the language based on 20 minutes of tutorials
[09:39] <directhex> awilkins, ditto
[09:40] <directhex> ruby is shit, but redmine is best-of-class
[09:40] <diplo> I've not heard of it
[09:40] <directhex> erk, sorry, forgot which channel i was in
[09:40]  * diplo googles
[09:40] <awilkins> Class being "open source software project forges"
[09:40] <christel>
[09:41] <diplo> Seems exactly what I wanted, not sure I want a Ruby app either though
[09:41] <awilkins> TBH I like it better than the proprietary ones I've encountered which admittedly is a limited set (CollabNet, mostly)
[09:42] <awilkins> The RPC interface on CollabNet performs like a dead greyhound nailed to the ground with a railway spike.
[09:42] <AlanBell> I think you have to have a macbook air to use Ruby
[09:42] <AlanBell> and the right kind of sunglasses
[09:42] <directhex> haha
[09:42] <directhex> AlanBell++
[09:42] <diplo> heh, all the tutorials I saw were on macs
[09:43] <directhex> twittered
[09:43] <awilkins> Yeah, I saw a tutorial on Git that conveyed that impression, was Ruby-on-Rails with Git on a Mac
[09:44] <popey> s/macbook air/dell ultrabook/ ;)
[09:46] <directhex> y'know, i don't think i like many frameworks for development on linux
[09:47] <directhex> php is terrible - but it's fast to do things with, ubiquitous, and great webapps like mediawiki are made with it
[09:47] <directhex> python just pisses me the hell off
[09:47] <directhex> ruby would be inoffensive, if not for the developers believing their "packages are evil!" bull
[09:49] <directhex> perl, that's the future that is
[09:53] <diplo> I used to use Perl a lot, rarely touch it now
[09:54]  * bigcalm takes exception to these Exceptions being thrown
[09:57] <directhex> i haven't done any serious perl since i discovered c#
[09:57] <davmor2> morning all
[09:57] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[09:58] <czajkowski> davmor2: ello me old chapp
[09:58] <davmor2> directhex: perl is easy it's what comes after knit one
[09:58] <directhex> perl isn't great for gui app design though
[09:59] <davmor2> directhex: use python then
 python just pisses me the hell off
[09:59] <awilkins> >-<   The Object IDs for small integers in Ruby ... 0 is 1... 1 is 3... 2 is 5 ... and 100 is 201 ; that's utterly barmy
[10:00] <diplo> :D
[10:00] <awilkins> Is there some deeper purpose there I just don't get, or is it specifically designed to make your brain curl up and cry?
[10:00] <diplo> Hadn't got that far awilkins , and I agree
[10:03] <bigcalm> Anybody used their UK T-Mobile or Orange contract in Northern Ireland?
[10:03] <bigcalm> I'm wondering what to expect next week
[10:04] <awilkins> bigcalm, Dunno about NI, Southern Island you usually get a roaming text message as the ferry pulls into dock
[10:04] <awilkins> s/Isl/Ire/
[10:05] <bigcalm> Ireland will be for another holiday :)
[10:07] <directhex> http://www2.orange.co.uk/servlet/Satellite?c=OUKPage&cid=1096359194359&itemid=1044130409898&mid=1147441289806&pagename=OUKPersonal&t=OUKP-FAQs&tab=1&topic=1098209181221
[10:07] <directhex> i.e. NI is the UK, is served by UK networks at UK prices
[10:08] <bigcalm> Good :)
[10:08] <bigcalm> Then I hope my T-mobile contract works just the same :)
[10:09] <davmor2> directhex: use python to just create a webkit window and then do it all in html then
[10:10] <directhex> i could do that in c# :p
[10:10] <directhex> bit of the ol' webkit#
[10:44] <MooDoo> hello all
[10:44] <brobostigon> hello MooDoo
[10:53] <andylockran> muah
[10:53] <andylockran> this is awesome
[10:53] <directhex> yes, i am
[10:53] <andylockran> chilling out on the roof of the office in the sunshine :)
[10:53] <MooDoo> andylockran: bugger off :)
[10:53] <andylockran> got a brolly and my aptop
[10:53] <andylockran> laptop
[10:54] <andylockran> now, if only I didn't have clients this job would be perfect
[10:55] <davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT9i99D_9gI
[10:59] <bigcalm> Has anybody experienced ctrl-c not working in a shell?
[11:00] <brobostigon> bigcalm: yes, when the system load, has been huge, almost to the point of being non-responsive.
[11:01] <bigcalm> But not under normal load?
[11:01] <brobostigon> no.
[11:01] <bigcalm> Everything else about these servers seems to be OK, but ctrl-c isn't working
[11:01] <brobostigon> bigcalm: for some programs, it takes time to die, but still works.
[11:02] <bigcalm> This is even in bash :(
[11:02] <brobostigon> weird.
[11:03] <brobostigon> bigcalm: is that keydtroke, mapped or directly built into bash, and is unchangable?
[11:04] <bigcalm> brobostigon: key stroke
[11:05] <bigcalm> I have no idea what the rest of your sentence means
[11:06] <brobostigon> ok,
[11:06] <diplo> bigcalm: Defo not been remapped ?
[11:06] <diplo> By someone else ?
[11:08] <diplo> Type stty and see what intr is set to
[11:15] <AlanBell> anyone know about configuring hp raid controllers with hpacucli?
[11:15] <bigcalm> $ stty
[11:15] <bigcalm> speed 38400 baud; line = 0;
[11:15] <bigcalm> -brkint -imaxbel
[11:16] <davmor2> AlanBell: Nope you'll be after the sysadminy types I guess
[11:16] <bigcalm> Whoops, that was the wrong server
[11:16] <bigcalm> iain@web1:~$ stty
[11:16] <bigcalm> speed 38400 baud; line = 0;
[11:16] <bigcalm> -brkint -imaxbel
[11:17] <bigcalm> Heh, same anyway
[11:19] <awilkins> bigcalm, So break causes interrupt?
[11:19] <bigcalm> awilkins: I don't know about these things
[11:19] <awilkins> bigcalm, Try the break key
[11:20] <bigcalm> Nothing
[11:20] <bigcalm> Nor with any combination of shift, ctrl, alt, alt gr
[11:21] <awilkins> Try opening another shell and using kill to send SIGINT to the process you want to die
[11:21] <bigcalm> Would that be kill -SIGINT <pid>?
[11:22] <bigcalm> No change
[11:22] <awilkins> kill -INT pid?
[11:23] <awilkins> kill -2 pid?
[11:23] <bigcalm> Again no change
[11:23] <awilkins> Bah
[11:24] <awilkins> It's possible to disable ctrl-C thusly : http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/unix-linux-shell-scripting-disable-controlc/
[11:26] <awilkins> so trap `'echo Horsefeathers' 2 `just makes ctrl-C echo stuff
[11:26] <awilkins> Only seems to do it for the one terminal, so it would have to be in your profile if this method is being used
[11:27] <awilkins> just `trap 2` ough to turn it off
[11:29]  * bigcalm tests
[11:30] <bigcalm> Just `trap 2` on the cli with the back-ticks?
[11:30] <awilkins> Without
[11:30] <bigcalm> No change
[11:30] <awilkins> I'm in "askubuntu.com" mode
[11:30] <awilkins> Wiki markup
[11:31] <awilkins> What kind of sick spud disables interrupt signals...
[11:31] <bigcalm> Ok, I've never written in a wiki :)
[11:31] <directhex> me!
[11:31]  * directhex disables interrupt signals
[11:32] <awilkins> Ask ^ him how to fix it
[11:32] <bigcalm> directhex: fix my ctrl-c :)
[11:32] <awilkins> He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing
[11:32] <directhex> bigcalm, NO! muahahahahahaha!
[11:33]  * bigcalm bleeps
[11:33] <bigcalm> Time for foods
[11:34] <awilkins> What does `stty -a` say?
[11:35] <awilkins> adrian@tachikoma:~/koans$ stty -a
[11:35] <awilkins> speed 38400 baud; rows 46; columns 129; line = 0;
[11:35] <awilkins> intr = ^C;  <snip>
[11:35] <awilkins> The intr = ^C bit is significant here
[11:36] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1000656/
[11:36] <awilkins> Ok, well, your interrupt key is still ctrl-C
[11:36]  * awilkins headdesk
[11:39] <bigcalm> Can I change it to be something else?
[11:40] <czajkowski> bigcalm: why?
[11:40] <diplo> Yes you can bigcalm
[11:40] <bigcalm> To see if it works
[11:40] <diplo>  >stty
[11:40] <diplo> speed 38400 baud; line = 0;
[11:40] <diplo> intr = ^O;
[11:41] <diplo> Seeing if I can remember how :)
[11:41] <diplo> http://superuser.com/questions/310333/how-can-i-remap-ctrlc-to-send-an-interrupt-signal-with-another-key
[11:41] <bigcalm> Ta
[11:41] <diplo> Torch just about to enter my town
[11:42] <diplo> Want to know how they are live streaming this
[11:42] <diplo> No jitters/buffering or anything
[11:43] <davmor2> diplo: I'd say that was amasing but unless they have David Tenant in his Doctor Who gear running into the stadium with the torch it's all for nothing :D
[11:43] <bigcalm> stty intr q
[11:43] <bigcalm> Does nothing :(
[11:44] <bigcalm> To the fooding shop!
[11:45] <diplo> Can't move in my town :(
[11:54] <awilkins> Bah humbug to the Olympics
[11:57] <diplo> heh same here awilkins
[11:57] <diplo> Lazy git walking at the mo, he's like 20 years younger than the last guy!
[12:00] <awilkins> Oh, Ruby
[12:00] <awilkins> You are truly nutzoid
[12:00] <awilkins> "In ruby 1.8, single chars are represented by integers. In ruby 1.9, they are represented by strings"
[12:04] <directhex> :D
[12:25] <DJones> For an office server, what type of raid would you recommend it should have
[12:26] <DJones> I've been asked to get a price from Dell for a replacement server so we'll have something to compare our IT support's quote with
[12:29] <directhex> DJones, depends on the price/performance ratio you want to aim for
[12:29] <DJones> The "boss" wants supercomputer performance, with pen & paper price
[12:29] <directhex> raid 10
[12:30]  * bigcalm returns with foods
[12:30] <DJones> or, as cheap as possible but good performance
[12:30] <directhex> i.e. create a number of raid 1 pairs, then stripe them.
[12:31] <directhex> this means you get 50% of the storage capacity you pay for, and can sustain a number of disk failures between 1 and x, where x is the number of raid1 pairs you have, but only if the *correct disks fail
[12:31] <daubers> DJones: Is this hardware RAID or software RAID?
[12:31] <directhex> i.e. if both disks in the same raid1 pair die, you're stuffed
[12:32] <directhex> raid5 is the most cost-effective redundant storage option, but performance sucks
[12:32] <DJones> I would go with hardware raid, just looking at the dell website anyway
[12:32] <daubers> RAID6 with a decent RAID card performs pretty well these days
[12:32] <directhex> so you need to decide how much storage you want, versus how much to pay
[12:33] <directhex> as a random example, if you use consumer-grade 2T SATA disks, and want 4T of storage, with raid5 you need three disks, with raid10 you need 4.
[12:33] <directhex> plus a hotspare for best practice, in both
[12:33] <daubers> DJones: Is this for general office files, and for how many users?
[12:33] <DJones> As far as I can tell, the current server/enigma machine has roughly 40Gb of storage
[12:33] <directhex> for 10T of storage with 2T disks, that's 6 disks with raid5, or 10 disks with raid10
[12:34] <DJones> It is a pile of junk
[12:35] <DJones> Thanks for the thoughts anyway, seem to be looking at about £1250 for a server with raid5, 4 drives etc
[12:35] <AlanBell> DJones: if you don't need masses of storage then small SSD might be worth considering for supercomputer performnace
[12:35] <daubers> DJones: How many users?
[12:36] <DJones> daubers: About 4 users in total
[12:36] <daubers> DJones: Then anything will do really. If it's officey type files more spindles will be better performance wise
[12:36] <directhex> raid5 is fine, if you don't mind crap performance.
[12:37] <directhex> you can't make raid5 fast. you can fake it, by adding buckets of cache in front, which is why more expensive raid controllers have more cache
[12:37] <DJones> AlanBell: I don't think SSD will benefit anything apart from speed, and the network here is held together with string so its not the best
[12:37] <daubers> directhex: Modern RAID cards do really well in RAID 5/6, got a RAID 6 box downstairs that will keep par with a raid 10 setup
[12:37] <daubers> (this is large files, cache doesn't help)
[12:39] <directhex> daubers, i'm not sure how you can possibly overcome the inherent problem with needing to calculate parity data and write to every disk, for every stripe. that's just not going to be fast
[12:39] <daubers> directhex: The disks are still the slow point
[12:39] <directhex> daubers, right. so n disks means n seek times per write
[12:39] <directhex> the idea with raid performance is to maximize spindles for reading, and minimize for writing. which is, of course, impossible. hence balancing acts of different raid schemas
[12:40] <daubers> directhex: yep, the RAID cards can calculate the parity faster than they can write to disks
[12:41] <daubers> directhex: Good example, I have a RAID 50 set downstairs comprised of 24 SSD's. In that point, all of the RAID card cleverness (cachine and what not) is turned off and it performs as well as the same set in a RAID 10
[12:41] <daubers> the RAID card caching stuff slows that set down
[12:42] <daubers> The problem I have with that box is that the network cards can't keep up with it. The TCP offload engines aren't good enough
[12:43] <daubers> directhex: I've also found that different filesystems make a massive difference, much bigger than that of the RAID mode
[12:43] <directhex> that's easy. XFS all the things! :D
[12:43] <daubers> Yup
[12:44] <daubers> Really hoping btrfs can start to outperform XFS, but it's not quite there yet
[12:44] <directhex> butterfs. does it have fsck yet?
[12:45] <daubers> It does... not completley useful yet though
[12:45] <daubers> "Latest btrfs-progs (c. 26 Mar 2012)
[12:45] <daubers> btrfsck can now repair some forms of filesystem breakage"
[12:46] <directhex> until it has a usable fsck i wouldn't even use it on a personal system. maybe a test VM.
[12:47] <daubers> I tinker with it now and again. Hoping that it'll be really useable by late next year as some of the snapshotting features are very useful
[12:49] <directhex> xfsdump!
[12:52] <popey> btrfs is fun
[12:52] <davmor2> popey: have you tried snapshots yet?
[12:52] <popey> no
[12:52] <popey> i dont need them for what I'm doing
[12:53] <davmor2> popey: oh I thought you were just having a play with the btrfs features
[12:53] <popey> no, I am using it
[12:54] <popey> on my home server
[12:54] <davmor2> popey: yes using == playing honest :D
[13:00] <davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKkaLM9NcSo this version of the 80's classic still sends chills up my spine
[13:03] <gord> greatest thing i ever received in the post ever? http://ubuntuone.com/6k4qBUfeMN92zgZVb9CJr4
[13:04] <popey> lol
[13:04] <davmor2> gord: Hmmm Japanese cat food disguised as sweets ;)
[13:09] <diplo> That is great gord :P
[13:10] <czajkowski> gord: words fail me
[13:10]  * diplo is in two minds whether this Olympic Torch will make it round the country, at the speed it's done my town I doubt it!
[13:12] <davmor2> diplo: it has 70 days
[13:14] <diplo> Still... davmor2 :P
[13:14] <davmor2> diplo: no if they are Still you're right it'll never make it ;)
[13:19]  * dwatkins shakes his head at Unity refusing to let him login via NX
[13:19] <andylockran> aww
[13:19] <dwatkins> oh, it let me in the end, it was just annoying about it
[13:21] <davmor2> dwatkins: are you using unity 2d for login?  if not I don't think nx works right with 3d currently, I could be wrong
[13:24] <dwatkins> davmor2: it appears it defaulted to 2D
[13:25] <dwatkins> I'm not sure what I need to put in the 'custom' field for NX, mind.
[13:26] <davmor2> dwatkins: yeap so you would of had the time delay where is ran the test trying to login into 3d realised it couldn't and then logged into the 2d version instead
[13:26] <dwatkins> aha, gnome-session --session=ubuntu-2d
[13:26] <davmor2> dwatkins: that should all be a thing of the past in 12.10 apparently we'll see
[13:26] <dwatkins> ah ok
[13:27] <dwatkins> I only just updated this 'server' to 11.04, probably will leave it there a while
[13:29] <diplo> gord: Remind me to not let you in my kitchen!
[13:30] <daubers> So where is canonical moving too?
[13:31] <directhex> turkmenistan. in a giant corporate airship.
[13:32] <davmor2> directhex 's house
[13:32] <daubers> directhex: Cool!
[13:32]  * daubers wishes he worked in an airship
[13:32] <directhex> corporate airship would be the best thing ever.
[13:36] <vedreamer> sdfsdf fsdfsdf
[13:37] <shauno> what's that lassie?  little timmy's stuck in the well?
[13:37] <vedreamer> Oops. just trying out irc clients in Ububtu
[13:42] <awilkins> Richard Branson might be the sort to have a corporate airship
[13:43] <directhex> for a while aeroscraft were marketing them as an alternative to private jets
[13:43] <awilkins> Is 12.10 supposed to be Wayland, or just "available Wayland"
[13:43] <directhex> never sold any though afaik
[13:53] <ed_> hi, I want to install kubuntu 64bit version, the website lists a "kubuntu-12.04-desktop-amd64.iso" file, does this work only on amd cpu or intel aswell? (my machine has an i5 cpu) thanks
[13:53] <popey> no, it works on intel and amd64 64-bit chips
[13:53] <popey> (except itanium)
[13:54] <popey> it's just that AMD named the architecture
[13:54] <ed_> ok then, thanks
[13:54] <popey> np
[13:55] <directhex> surprising how often that comes up
[13:55] <directhex> nobody is confused that i386 works on non-intel chips
[13:55] <popey> i dont think people know what "i386" actually means
[13:55] <gord> ipod from the future
[13:56] <davmor2> geek and magic combo http://vimeo.com/4336830
[14:00] <diplo> Beer at lunch time wasn't such a good idea :'(
[14:01] <diplo> I wasn't doing very well before, doing worse now!
[14:43] <cocoa117> with e-sata port on the motherboard, can you use it as internal SATA with internal hard disk?
[14:48] <bigcalm> It's a different shape connector I thought
[14:52] <awilkins> The internal connectors are usually the same
[14:52] <awilkins> You're just supposed to use them with a breakout plate
[14:52]  * bigcalm nods
[14:52] <awilkins> Don't see why not
[14:52] <directhex> cocoa117, as far as the OS is concerned, they're the same thing. physically, it might be more challenging
[14:52] <awilkins> They're just rated for longer cables AFAIK
[14:53] <directhex> laptops sometimes have hybrid ports which are usb2 and esata
[14:55] <awilkins> With my mobo the esata is just a bonded socket on the backplane
[14:55] <popey> AlanBell: do you still have my mic and lead?
[14:56] <directhex> i don't have esata per se... my motherboard came with a bracket which connects to sata ports on the motherboard & presents esata connectors on the back of the case
[14:56] <directhex> but unpowered, so there's a second bracket for power connectors
[14:56] <directhex> then breakout cables - esata to sata, and molex to sata
[15:00] <cocoa117> directhex, so if they are physically the same, i can just use them as they are right? they looks phyically same to me, except its paint it in red, :)
[15:01] <popey> sata and esata cables/connectors are not the same
[15:01] <directhex> cocoa117, esata isn't physically the same. similar, but the power pins will likely get in the way
[15:02] <cocoa117> directhex, in that case, put it this way, if i can use normal sata cable connection from mobo e-sata port, i should be good to go right?
[15:04] <cocoa117> on the mobo, they look exact the same to me, i can even easily plug-in normal internal sata cable
[15:39] <awilkins> It's too hot in here
[15:39] <awilkins> They're skimping on the aircon again
[15:40]  * awilkins shakes his fist at the beancounters
[15:43]  * bigcalm draws the curtains and opens a window
[15:44] <bigcalm> Oh that is so much better
[15:45] <czajkowski> herro
[15:48] <davmor2> czajkowski: been let back in for good behaviour?
[15:48] <czajkowski> yup
[15:49] <davmor2> czajkowski: I don't know what more worrying, them letting you in or you being good :P
[15:49]  * czajkowski is always good
[15:50] <davmor2> czajkowski: and the devil never lies.....oh wait :P
[15:55] <gord> czajkowski, what was in the cat packet: http://ubuntuone.com/1eKZzXUDUd0AgDxSnu1QYM http://ubuntuone.com/1sFfpo3GLcq8bm3H7HJMTr - worth every penny.
[15:56] <czajkowski> gord: you know how I feel about cats
[15:56] <czajkowski> gord: and I brought you TEA and bikies!
[15:56] <czajkowski> never again :/
[16:01] <MooDoo> hello all
[16:07] <davmor2> czajkowski: but I bought you a kitten as a house warming pressie
[16:07] <czajkowski> >:(
[16:08] <davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
[16:08] <davmor2> czajkowski: what?
[16:10]  * SuperMatt thinks reddit.com/r/ubuntu/new needs more love
[16:10] <MooDoo> davmor2: how's hot going
[16:10] <MooDoo> czajkowski: prd!
[16:11] <davmor2> MooDoo: have you lost the ability so say prod all of a sudden?
[16:11] <bigcalm> Is it ok to complain about the weather yet?
[16:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: NO!!!!!
[16:11] <MooDoo> davmor2: no it wasn't a full prod, more like a half hearted attempt due to the time of day :)
[16:12] <davmor2> MooDoo: hahaha
[16:12] <MooDoo> bigcalm: don't worry it's going to rain again from sunday
[16:12] <bigcalm> Yippie
[16:12] <davmor2> MooDoo: BOOOO!!!!!
[16:12] <bigcalm> Just in time for our holiday in NI
[16:12]  * MooDoo going to devon
[16:13] <davmor2> I'm off to Shrewsbury doesn't sound nearly as good
[16:13] <bigcalm> davmor2: what business do you have in my fair county?
[16:13] <MooDoo> woolacoombe to be more precise
[16:14] <davmor2> bigcalm: RKM wools for wifey
[16:15] <bigcalm> davmor2: enjoy :)
[16:23]  * awilkins is going to London for NHSHackDay
[16:39]  * popey pokes AlanBell
[16:40]  * Laney bells AlanPoke
[16:40] <popey> AlanBell: do you have my mic and stand and cable perchance?
[16:42] <bigcalm> Oh dear, that'll make podmaxing difficult
[16:43] <popey> indeed
[16:43] <popey> unless I have them but can't find them
[16:43]  * bigcalm thinks nobody got the reference :(
[16:44] <popey> I did ☺
[16:44] <bigcalm> \o/
[16:44] <popey> NONSENSE NONSENSE NONSENSE!
[16:44] <bigcalm> Hehehe
[16:44] <bigcalm> I always wanted to be a member of Black Squadron
[16:44] <popey> heh
[16:44] <bigcalm> But couldn't face the world at that time
[16:47] <bigcalm> $ host beta.totalderivatives.com
[16:47] <bigcalm> Host beta.totalderivatives.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
[16:47] <bigcalm> Anybody else get that?
[16:47] <Laney> beta.totalderivatives.com has address <IP_ADDRESS>
[16:48] <bigcalm> Maybe because I asked before it had been actioned, my dns is caching it
[16:49] <bigcalm> Laney: thanks. whatsmydns.net says the same
[16:51] <davmor2> popey: you'll just have to sit cheek to cheek with tonytiger
[16:52] <bigcalm> Cosy
[16:52]  * bigcalm pokes the server with an ssl stick
[16:52] <bigcalm> Silly thing isn't responding
[16:53] <bigcalm> Bytemark VMs don't come with firewalls, do they?
[16:54] <alexcockell> Who's gonna be laughing at Eurovision tonight?
[16:54] <bigcalm> That's still a thing?
[16:58] <davmor2> alexcockell: You by the sound of it
[16:58] <dogmatic69> what is a decent home/small office 'backup' solution
[16:58] <bigcalm> I've enabled ssl on apache2 with a2enmod ssl, but the port seems to be closed still. Any thoughts?
[16:58] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: rsync!
[16:59] <BigRedS> depends what you want to do, we use backuppc here and it doesn't seem too much faff for only a few hosts
[16:59] <davmor2> dogmatic69: Ubuntu one, a usb/esata caddy, rsync
[16:59] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: sorry, talking more hardware side first off.
[16:59] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: off-site harddrive dedicated to your backups running rdiff-backup (this is what I do)
[16:59] <bigcalm> Actually, it's what I do for my parents
[16:59] <bigcalm> I don't have anything of worth to backup here
[17:00] <davmor2> bigcalm: can you hear it....no....I'm playing the worlds smallest violin just for you
[17:01] <bigcalm> davmor2: you know I can work from any machine :P
[17:01]  * davmor2 makes a note to learn to play the violin it's squeaking like hell
[17:01] <dogmatic69> davmor2: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0kox1EZGj1qkismz.gif
[17:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: I'll loan you my laptop some time muhahahahahaha
[17:02] <bigcalm> Yay, got https working - had to add Listen 443 to /etc/apach2/ports.conf
[17:02] <bigcalm> davmor2: then I shall plug in a USB kb ;)
[17:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: wuss
[17:02] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: drop the bloat, cherokee ftw
[17:03]  * bigcalm rolls his eyes
[17:03] <bigcalm> Not going to happen any time soon
[17:03] <dogmatic69> :(
[17:03] <dogmatic69> nginx...
[17:03] <bigcalm> Business doesn't work that quickly
[17:04] <davmor2> dogmatic69: depending on how much data you have, do a deja-dup to U1 or and external hd and done
[17:04] <dogmatic69> davmor2: 100G+
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> hence ".. or and external hd"
[17:04] <davmor2> dogmatic69: external hd
[17:14] <bigcalm> https works, yay
[17:14] <bigcalm> Time for a walk
[17:19] <the-penguin> Hi I can't update my system. No keyrings installed in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/
[17:20] <the-penguin> Had no problems updating a few days ago and my sources list looks ok
[17:45] <vedreamer> Can someone remind me how to suppress join quit messages, I can't seem to get the syntax right.
[17:45] <brobostigon>  /help ignore
[17:45] <mh0> vedreamer: XChat has a feature for that
[17:47] <vedreamer> I'm using XChat-GNOME but couldn't see it
[17:47] <mh0> Probably not then
[17:47] <mh0> Weird, I can't even seem to find the setting anymore
[17:48] <mh0> OH
[17:48] <mh0> vedreamer: I think it can also be channel specific
[17:48] <vedreamer> i know it's /ignore <something> QUIT JOIN
[17:49] <mh0> vedreamer: It's channel dependant. Right click your channel > Settings > Hide Quit/Join Messages
[17:52] <vedreamer> Do you mean in the channel pane on the left?
[17:52] <mh0> yeah
[17:53] <vedreamer> Not in mione :-(
[17:53] <mh0> hm
[17:53] <mh0> xchat-gnome is rather different from the actual xchat
[17:53] <mh0> And is much, much older
[17:53] <mh0> 0.3.0
[17:53] <mh0> Mine is 2.8.8
[17:54] <vedreamer> Thanks, I'll drop it then and switch to Xchat.
[18:02] <vedreamer> ah much better. Thanks
[18:32] <Azelphur> hmm, what's the usual pdf viewer in ubuntu?
[18:33] <Azelphur> I don't seem to have it for some reason
[18:33] <stgraber> evince
[18:33] <Azelphur> was uninstalled for some reason, odd *shrug*
[19:09]  * AlanBell listens to the podcast
[19:18] <dogmatic69> Is there anything I can setup to monitor a folder for new files and then run a command when there is something new / changed/
[19:19] <dogmatic69> been trying google but only getting back stuff related to finding and searching for files
[19:24] <gord> dogmatic69, inotifywait
[19:37] <dogmatic69> gord: thanks, seems like that will do the trick
[19:38] <dogmatic69> gord: do you know if it is ok to run that for days / weeks on end?
[19:43] <BigRedS> I've done it before with no ill effect
[19:50] <gord> dogmatic69, its fine, that is the point of inotify
[20:25] <mrevell> What's up #ubuntu-maas?
[20:29] <mattt> mrevell: WRONG WINDOW
[20:30] <mrevell> mattt, Ah, damn, no, just stupid typing. I meant to type #ubuntu-uk but got distracted...
[20:31]  * AlanBell thinks everyone should join #ubuntu-maas and say hi to Daviey who is very lonely in there
[20:32] <mrevell> :)
[20:32] <mrevell>  #maas is where it's at
[20:32] <AlanBell> ooh canonical and your out-of-namespace channels
[20:33] <mrevell> AlanBell, Ach. We had a discussion about this earlier and the other two people on the call were very happy to palm the decision off onto me :) So, I Picarded it and went with #maas ... it's for the upstream project of MAAS, so, erm, that's my justification.
[20:33] <mrevell> :)
[20:38] <AlanBell> thats fine :)
[20:42] <Daviey> AlanBell: i'm going to make a forward from #ubuntu-maas to #maas.  Unless you want to handle it? :)
[20:53] <AlanBell> go for it Daviey, you should be able to part and rejoin to get ops and set it up
[21:02] <Daviey> AlanBell: bah, i hoped i managed to get you to do it :)
[21:14] <SuperEngineer> Hi folks.  Has anyone tried the Gimp 2.8 ppa? Is it safe in 12.04 as claimed?
[21:23] <AlanBell> SuperEngineer: where is it claimed that it is safe?
[21:25] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: 2 secs
[21:26] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~otto-kesselgulasch/+archive/gimp the description on the PPA indicates that there should be no dependency problems and that it should install, it does not promise to be safe for future upgrades
[21:26] <AlanBell> Otto is one of the maintainers and if I was going to install gimp 2.8 that is where I would install it from
[21:26] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: you beat me to it!
[21:27] <ali1234> i'm going to install it and if it breaks it's all your fault AlanBell
[21:27] <AlanBell> but it is not 'safe' it is quite explicitly 'at your own risk'
[21:27] <SuperEngineer> ...but it is the future that woories me too... if only I could remember where I parked the time machine!
[21:28] <ali1234> definitely your fault
[21:31] <AlanBell> do I get the credit if it works?
[21:31] <ali1234> no
[21:31]  * SuperEngineer wonders if ali1234 could have my time machine.. if so - let me know if you find any probs pretty please
[21:32] <ali1234> i know that gimp 2.8 has an annoying design regression where it won't let you save a file unless it is already .xcf
[21:32] <SuperEngineer> ooops
[21:32] <ali1234> so before you could open screenshot -> crop -> save
[21:33] <ali1234> now you have to open screenshot -> crop -> export -> select format -> type filename -> etc
[21:33] <ali1234> i plan to go and complain about this as soon as i've installed it
[21:34] <SuperEngineer> that's my mind made up - thanks ali1234 - think I'll wait awhile [& can I have my time machine back please]
[21:34] <ali1234> i really want single window mode though
[21:34] <ali1234> i've been waiting for it for like 5 years
[21:35] <SuperEngineer> yup - that was my only reason for even thinking about it
[21:36] <SuperEngineer> so many people begging for it - now we just need a stable version that does itr
[21:36] <ali1234> of course that design regression wouldn't be nearly as bad if gnome/ubuntu hadn't rippled the printscreen function
[21:36] <dogmatic69> anyone used fibre channel HDD's?
[21:39] <ali1234> sccording to gimp.org "There are some optimizations for alternative   workflows such as opening a jpg, polishing it, and quickly exporting   back to the original file."
[21:40] <AlanBell> printscreen is working fine again I think
[21:40] <AlanBell> alt-printscreen does what you would expect, with options to save or copy
[21:41] <ali1234> in classic gnome it screenshots 1 window
[21:41] <AlanBell> unless I fixed mine myself, not sure
[21:41] <AlanBell> yeah, it screenshots one window
[21:41] <ali1234> i can't test it in unity because i killed it with fire
[21:43] <ali1234> anyone know how to enable single window mode then?
[21:43] <ali1234> oh. that's not very good
[21:43] <ali1234> something is broken with my gtk, menu bars don't wrap any more
[21:44] <ali1234> if menu wider than window, the rest of the items just get cut off
[21:44]  * AlanBell congratulates ali1234 for finding something good about global menus
[21:45] <ali1234> global menus are almos certainly the reason why nobody has noticed this regression
[21:49] <ali1234> hmm single window mode isn't actually as good as it could have been
[21:50] <ali1234> it doesn't use MDI like photoshop. it has a weird tabbed interface like firefox
[21:50] <ali1234> so you can't view two images side by side
[21:51] <ali1234> you can't move tool windows over the image you've working on
[21:51] <ali1234> and the toolbox always has to be in the top right
[21:52] <SuperEngineer> it *is*a first try - & a point to move forward from though - I hope.
[21:53] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: but the tapped layers sounds good [but you're the one who's using it so I'm only going from your edescription
[21:54] <ali1234> tapped layers?
[21:54] <SuperEngineer> ooops
[21:54] <SuperEngineer> tabbed
[21:54] <ali1234> it's not for layers
[21:54] <ali1234> layers interface is exactly the same
[21:54] <ali1234> it's if you open multiple windows
[21:54] <ali1234> er... multiple images
[21:55] <ali1234> the images still appear under the "windows" menu though lol
[21:56] <SuperEngineer> hmmm - so they're not windows, but are "windows"
[21:56] <ali1234> yeah
[21:56] <ali1234> there not even MDI child windows
[21:58] <ali1234> i'm really surprised they've actually managed to make something even worse
[21:58] <SuperEngineer> well, I suppose it's as I said, it's a first try  - only way is up
[21:58] <ali1234> they could surprise me again and continue to make it worse in each release
[22:00] <ali1234> ok, there's a menu item for imported images (ie not xcf) to directly export them back to the original file with one step. so that's good
[22:00] <ali1234> i want to use xcf the rest of the time anyway
[22:01] <Azelphur> ali1234: I spoke to Logitech, they blame my horrible hong kong ebay bought USB devices
[22:01] <SuperEngineer> ...they could *charge* for it... me, I say thanks
[22:01] <SuperEngineer> - but I stay at current stable version
[22:01] <Azelphur> which I guess is possible, I'mma try unplugging all the things for a while
[22:01] <ali1234> and also it remembers the export settings so once you've exported once you ctrl-e and it's like "save" except to the jpeg copy
[22:02] <ali1234> so you don't have to remember to save as xcf then save as jpeg to keep the two files in sync
[22:02] <ali1234> you just press ctrl-s ctrl-e
[22:02] <ali1234> that's awesome :)
[22:02] <AlanBell> nice
[22:03] <AlanBell> could be nicer and remember a bunch of output resolutions to save an xcf as
[22:03] <ali1234> you mean like export to multiple different resolutions in one ctrl-e?
[22:04] <ali1234> you need adobe for that still :)
[22:04] <AlanBell> or rather, I have one xcf file, and on save of that I want a .gif this size, a png that size and two jpegs of these settings . . .
[22:05] <SuperEngineer> thanks for all the feedback ali1234
[22:13]  * SuperEngineer is now off to the room with pillows in it - have fun folkies ;)


[03:25] <Takyoji> Am I heretic for questioning my faith in Ubuntu? :P
[03:26] <Takyoji> I'm in limbo of what distro to even recommend to people (aside from Mint); as I feel Unity would completely uncomfortable for convertees.


[17:58] <stas> guys, is this the new landing page for firefox in lucid?
[17:59] <stas> http://start.ubuntu.com/10.04/
[18:00] <jpds> stas: Yes.
[18:00] <stas> jpds: is it final?
[18:01] <stas> it looks like that bar is broken :)
[18:02] <cjohnston> stas: there is already a bug on it if your talking about the border thing on the google page
[18:02] <cjohnston> (if its google vs yahoo vs whoever else you customize against)
[18:03] <stas> nope, talking about that image or whatever it is that looks half square


[02:03] <west> how do I start terminal using ctrl alt + t
[02:14] <inahd> hey all, any ideas how to fix this pulseaudio conflict that causes me to need a restart to connect jack, after i use certain programs that play audio such as netflix?
[02:15] <inahd> its like pulseaudio gets taken over and can't let go
[02:23] <OvenWerks> inahd: which version of ubuntustudio are you using?
[02:24] <inahd> errr mint 14 actually
[02:24] <inahd> no one in the mint forum seems to know much about these things
[02:24] <OvenWerks> that version of pulse has a bug. there is a workaround though
[02:25] <inahd> learn me!
[02:25] <OvenWerks> Assuming you are using qjackctl to start jack...
[02:25] <inahd> yes
[02:25] <OvenWerks> there is in qjackctl setup on the second tab, four lines for scripts.
[02:26] <OvenWerks> It is called options
[02:26] <inahd> gotcha
[02:27] <OvenWerks> check the first one and add this line to it:
[02:27] <OvenWerks> pasuspender -- sleep 1 &
[02:28] <OvenWerks> It gets pulse to drop the devices long enough for jack to grab it
[02:28] <inahd> fancy1
[02:28] <inahd> !
[02:29] <inahd> you have saved me untold frustrations..
[02:30] <OvenWerks> so long as it works
[02:31] <OvenWerks> mint 15 should have the new pulse if I remember right.
[02:31] <inahd> true
[02:32] <inahd> i guess i should see if it works
[02:44] <inahd> any movie suggestions for the test :P?
[02:46] <OvenWerks> I found any use of pulse made jack not start. with the mod you should be able to start jack even while pulse is streaming
[02:48] <OvenWerks> If you have module-jackdbus-detect it should be possible to also get the audio to continue through pulse and jack
[02:49] <OvenWerks> Anyway, I have to go as my wife needs this machine for her homework
[02:51] <inahd> :)
[02:57] <Guest59443> does the choice of window manager have a significant impact on audio quality (latency, etc.)?
[02:57] <Guest59443> I'm having difficult getting used to xfce and thinking about switching
[02:57] <Guest59443> to something more familiar
[03:01] <inahd> Guest59443: how nice is your machine?
[03:01] <holstein> Guest59443: switch to what you want
[03:02] <holstein> nothing will make your computer any faster of slower.. just might use less resources
[03:02] <Guest59443> It is about three years old (Toshiba Satellite A505)
[03:02] <Guest59443> I'm used to Unity from Ubuntu plain.
[03:02] <holstein> Guest59443: try adding what you like, and choose it from the login screen..
[03:02] <holstein> Guest59443: install plain ubuntu with unity and add what you like
[03:03] <holstein> or, install unity in ubuntustudio
[03:03] <inahd> ugh, unity...
[03:03] <Guest59443> yeah I know I might be the only one that likes it :)
[03:04] <holstein> lots of folks use and like it.. and you can too
[03:04] <Guest59443> I miss being able to press the win key and type the program I want to start (like in Windows 7 too)
[03:04] <holstein> i dont plan on using it anytime soon
[03:04] <holstein> Guest59443: you can add that functionality
[03:04] <holstein> Guest59443: you can use alt+F2
[03:05] <holstein> Guest59443: you can use kupfer or synapse.. or type what you like into the terminal
[03:05] <holstein> OR, use keyboard shortcuts..
[03:06] <inahd> i have seen panel apps that put something like that on your panel
[03:06] <holstein> yup
[03:07] <holstein> its not a thing that was invented with win7.. or unity.. but, you certainly can and should use either of those if you want them.. but, we just didnt put that into ubuntustudio because we didnt
[03:07] <Guest59443> Of course there is several things.
[03:08] <holstein> Guest59443: i assure you, since everything is open, you can get what you want in XFCE.. though, you are also free to use unity
[03:08] <holstein> Guest59443: i would suggest installing main ubuntu, and just add the few apps you might be using
[03:08] <holstein> Guest59443: what are you using from ubuntustudio?
[03:09] <Guest59443> I'm not sure how to set up USB audio, multi monitor, stop the scroll wheel from switching workspaces... It is probably easier for me to switch than to customize.
[03:09] <holstein> the USB audio will be the same
[03:09] <Guest59443> Today's actually my first day using UbuntuStudio.
[03:09] <holstein> Guest59443: then, i would just move on.. unless you plan on doing any audio production
[03:09] <Guest59443> holstein, I don't see the sound config. in the settings window
[03:09] <holstein> Guest59443: "the" sound config?
[03:10] <holstein> what are you looking fof?
[03:10] <holstein> for*
[03:10] <holstein> pavucontrol?
[03:10] <Guest59443> holstein, Yes I'm using it specifically for audio production
[03:10] <holstein> Guest59443: using JACK?
[03:12] <Guest59443> In Ubuntu you can go to Settings > Sound and select which sound output and input you want to use. (Useful for casual use when I don't have Ardour and JACK running)
[03:13] <Guest59443> I have built-in audio and external audio when the laptop is plugged in
[03:15] <holstein> Guest59443: install pavucontrol if its not there
[03:16] <holstein> Guest59443: pavucontrol is the sound control app that i complain about not having when im on main ubuntu
[03:18] <Guest59443> holstein, thanks for the pointer.
[03:27] <Guest59443> In pavcontrol I'm trying to understand the "fallback" button. Does that mean like "second default choice"? How do I set the first default choice?
[03:28] <Guest59443> (appears in the Input Devices tab)
[03:28] <holstein> Guest59443: get sound playing, then route with pavucontrol
[03:28] <Guest59443> (and Output Devices tab)
[03:28] <holstein> Guest59443: i have never used "fallback"
[03:58] <Guest59443> With QJackCtrl I'm not able to use less than 1024 Frames/Period. Does this just mean my soundcard is terrible?
[03:58] <Guest59443> I'm using Periods/Buffer 3 per http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/list_of_jack_frame_period_settings_ideal_for_usb_interface
[03:59] <Guest59443> (and sample Rate 48000 per the same page)
[04:04] <holstein> Guest59443: what sound card?
[04:04] <holstein> Guest59443: i pesonally dont use USB devices or internal deivces
[04:04] <holstein> devices*
[04:04] <holstein> but, folks use USB devices often with good results
[04:04] <holstein> i would ask in #opensourcemusicians for suggestions
[04:12] <Guest59443> holstein: here's the output of aplay -l
[04:12] <Guest59443> http://pastebin.com/mV03mBc3
[04:12] <Guest59443> (I wasn't sure how to look up my soundcard)
[04:14] <holstein> Guest59443: is it in the machine?
[04:14] <holstein> the scarlet might be something you could use with decent quality
[04:15] <Guest59443> I have a USB "preamp" (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2) that should be decent
[04:15] <holstein> right
[04:15] <holstein> but, might not have low latency
[04:15] <Guest59443> Plus a laptop with a built-in soundcard
[04:15] <holstein> not that you need it
[04:15] <holstein> latency is a buzz word
[04:15] <holstein> if you need low latency, you know you do and you get it
[04:15] <holstein> otherwise, it really doesnt matter
[04:15] <Guest59443> It would be useful for MIDI synth
[04:16] <holstein> right
[04:16] <holstein> softsynths or realtime effects
[04:16] <holstein> and i like to have around 12ms latency minimum
[04:16] <holstein> otherwise, i really dont care if its 200ms
[04:26] <Guest59443> I'm trying to remember how to set up MIDI in Ardour. I don't see my keyboard listed in the Ardour MIDI Connection Manager, but I do see it listed in QJackCtrl > Connections > ALSA
[04:26] <holstein> Guest59443: ardour 3?
[04:26] <Guest59443> yes
[04:26] <holstein> Guest59443: they have a channel
[04:26] <Guest59443> 3.2
[04:26] <holstein> #ardour
[04:27] <Guest59443> okay
[04:27] <holstein> i dont do much midi.. though, you can also ask in #opensourcemusicians
[04:27] <holstein> otherwise, i just make the connections manually
[04:27] <holstein> make a midi channel.. connect the keyboard manuall
[04:27] <holstein> its likely that you need to use a2jmidid
[04:34] <Guest59443> I don't see it in the Software Center. What is the equivalent of apt-get for xfce?
[04:34] <holstein> Guest59443: ?
[04:34] <holstein> Guest59443: xfce is just the desktop manager
[04:34] <holstein> ubuntustudio *is* ubuntu
[04:34] <holstein> apt-get is apt-get
[04:34] <holstein> Guest59443: you run a2jmidid from the terminal
[04:34] <holstein> !info a2jmidid
[04:35] <Guest59443> Okay
[04:39] <OvenWerks> Best place to run a2jmidid is from qjackctl.
[04:39] <holstein> OvenWerks: can you elaborate about that? i havent used it that way..
[04:40] <OvenWerks> The second tab in the setup menu is options.
[04:40] <OvenWerks> there are four places to run a script. use the second.
[04:40] <OvenWerks> tick the check box at the front of that line and add:
[04:41] <OvenWerks> a2jmidid -e &
[04:41] <OvenWerks> in the text space.
[04:41] <OvenWerks> It will auto close when jack goes away
[04:41] <holstein> Guest59443: are you getting this? ^^
[04:42] <Guest59443> I see. I'm not sure how to use it yet though.
[04:42] <Guest59443> OvenWerks: I'm hoping to connect my keyboard to Ardour
[04:43] <holstein> Guest59443: this will hopefully facilitate that
[04:43] <OvenWerks> When you use the connections window from qjckctl. there are three tabs the midi tab is the best place to make all connections.
[04:44] <OvenWerks> so once jack is running, if you go to the midi tab on the connections window, you will see a2j
[04:44] <Guest59443> I see the MIDI tab, with a2j in it
[04:44] <Guest59443> I can connect it to Ardour
[04:44] <OvenWerks> click on the little > in front of it and you should see the midi in where your KB is connected.
[04:45] <Guest59443> But I'm not sure how to connect my MIDI keyboard to a2j
[04:45] <Guest59443> okay I'll look
[04:45] <OvenWerks> Mine has the name of my card and the word cature.
[04:46] <Guest59443> oh, I see midi thru. And I can connect my keyboard to MIDI Through in the ALSA tab
[04:46] <OvenWerks> Shouldn't have to.
[04:46] <OvenWerks> did you use the -e with a2jmidid?
[04:47] <OvenWerks> If you do any cannecting on the alsa pannel they 'may" be timing issues.
[04:48] <OvenWerks> I haven't had any personally, but I don't do very much midi outside of testing to make sure it works :)
[04:48] <Guest59443> Okay, got it now with the -e option. Is the & part of the command (above)
[04:48] <OvenWerks> Yes.
[04:48] <OvenWerks> The & makes it go to background and not hold qjackctl from doing other things.
[04:52] <Guest59443> Thanks OvenWerks! MIDI input is working now
[04:53] <OvenWerks> Cool
[04:54] <OvenWerks> It's always nice when something just starts working.
[04:54] <Guest59443> :)
[05:15] <Guest59443> In firefox when I click on the Download "Open file location" It opens Audacious instead of the file manager
[05:15] <Guest59443> Anyway to fix that?
[05:15] <Guest59443> I'm using a fresh install of Ubuntu 13.04
[05:17] <Guest59443> It looks like there is a bug report for this on archlinux:
[05:17] <Guest59443> https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/31616
[05:17] <Guest59443> Should I file a bug for Ubuntu Studio?
[05:18] <Guest59443> Looking at the support page, I'm not sure where to file bugs:
[05:18] <Guest59443> http://ubuntustudio.org/support/
[18:14] <angel> i have problem with my ubuntu studio 13 , it can't connect any wifi
[18:16] <angel> can you help me
[18:18] <angel> please
[18:19] <inahd> you might try the regular ubuntu forum... more activity for non music related problems...
[18:23] <angel> ok this channel is for music
[18:23] <angel> are musicians?
[18:24] <inahd> kind of
[18:24] <inahd> ohhh
[18:24] <angel> i need a algorythmic application and i'm electroaoustical musician
[18:24] <inahd> i mean non artistic stuff
[18:24] <angel> ok
[18:24] <angel> thanks
[18:24] <inahd> wireless is like a common thing for all ubuntu users
[18:25] <angel> here we can what?
[18:27] <angel> thanks i think i go back to Mac then
[18:27] <inahd> sigh
[19:05] <ssj71> hi all, I've got something weird going on in the desktop background recently. I'm on 13.04, the wallpaper appears right after I login, then suddenly its covered/dissappears and the background is a strange black and white stripe thing
[19:05] <ssj71> anyone have a guess what might be going on?
[20:50] <jukka> Moi. Mistä kohtia voi asentaa Ubuntu Studiolle näyttiksen ajurit automaattisesti? Normi Ubuntulla se menee kätevästi sieltä asetuksista, mutta miten Studiossa?
[21:05] <cub> jukka, if you re-write your question in English more people might be able to help
[21:05]  * cub only understands "moi"
[21:05] <Unit193> !fi
[21:34] <deevad> Hi, I enjoy installing and testing 13.04 Ubuntu Studio. I have a issue with Thunar , may someone help me  ?  I have this dialog when I create a new custom action : http://www.davidrevoy.com/XYZ/Screenshot27062013.png  , and I can't add a new right click item. Thx in advance.
[22:06] <nimbiotics> I dont know how my son managed to do it but I do not have the panels anymore. Please tell me how to restore the panels, this is making my life miserable. TIA!
[22:18] <deevad> nimbiotics, try Alt+F3 or Alt+F2 for the launcher / appfinder, enter 'settings' ; in settings icon, you have the panel menu.
[22:32] <holstein> nimbiotics: or just make a new user.. or remove the config for the current user.
[22:38] <Unit193> ~/.config/xfce4/panel/
[22:39] <holstein> yup.. blow that out ^^ and it'll come back as default nimbiotics
[22:40] <Unit193> Once you relogin or xfce4-panel -r
[22:40] <nimbiotics> deevad: Thanks, will try!
[22:52] <nimbiotics> deevad: Thanks for your answer. The settings That showed up were kinda complicated for me. I did, however fix the problem using the "Quick Fix" in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XubuntuPanels. The link was given to me by yofun at #ubuntu. One more time; thanks a lot!


[13:18] <smoser> thnee, thats a fair point.  for your info, though, you should be hesitant of anything that asks you for a private key.
[13:29] <larsks> back from a week of vacation...does https://code.launchpad.net/~larsks/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/329661 need anything more, or is it good to go?
[14:35] <smoser> hey all, just a reminder, we have a status/discussion meeting in ~ 2 hours (Tue, 05 Sep 2017 16:30:00 +0000).
[14:35] <smoser> we will discuss
[14:35] <smoser> some of the things listed at https://lists.launchpad.net/cloud-init/msg00094.html
[15:42] <smoser> blackboxsw, cloudinit/net/dhcp.py
[15:42] <smoser> i think dhcp_discovery should take the interface back down if it brought it up
[15:42] <smoser> shouldnt it ?
[15:43] <smoser> ie, it has a side affect of leaving the 'ip link set dev <interface> up'
[15:44] <smoser> and EphemeralIPv4Network may have that too ?
[16:09] <blackboxsw> larsks: hi there welcome back, I had forgotten about the vacation, I'll back my branch donw
[16:09] <blackboxsw> larsks: hi there welcome back, I had forgotten about the vacation, I'll back my branch down
[16:32] <smoser> hey.
[16:32] <smoser> this is time for meeting now.
[16:33] <powersj> \o/
[16:34] <smoser> anyone else here for this ?
[16:34] <smoser> larsks,  no ajorgens, robjo ?
[16:35] <robjo> sorry chasing an urgent issue, not really here
[16:35] <smoser> no worries.
[16:37] <smoser> for this meeting, i'll just run through
[16:37] <smoser>  https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/cloud-init-meeting
[16:38] <smoser> # Recent Changes / Highlights
[16:38] <smoser>  *     integration of robjo's opensuse items
[16:38] <smoser>  *     summit results posted to mailing list https://lists.launchpad.net/cloud-init/msg00094.html
[16:38] <smoser> #     In Progress Development / Highlights
[16:39] <smoser>     Trello Board: [https://trello.com/b/hFtWKUn3/daily-cloud-init-curtin]
[16:39] <smoser>     Bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init
[16:39] <smoser>     Opensuse builds: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/Cloud:Tools:Next/cloud-init
[16:39] <smoser> that pasted poorly
[16:39] <blackboxsw> #startmeeting cloud-init status update
[16:39] <blackboxsw> :)
[16:39] <smoser> we also have a SRU in progress. information at https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
[16:39] <smoser> ... blackboxsw  do we have the both ere now ?
[16:39] <smoser> sorry.
[16:40] <blackboxsw> yeah meetingology is here now :)
[16:40] <larsks> smoser: sorry, lunch, here now :)
[16:40] <smoser> ok. well, for next time i guess blackboxsw
[16:40] <smoser> put some info on bot meetingology at https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/cloud-init-meeting ?
[16:41] <smoser> # topic: open Discussion
[16:41] <smoser> The biggest followup item really was to discuss release items such as frequency and version numbers.  'Proposal: Roll over to 1.0.0' in the post is generally accepted by myself and others.  So I think that we will probably move to 1.0.0
[16:41] <blackboxsw> sure will do
[16:41] <blackboxsw> strange that it's not here anymore. will get that up for next meeting
[16:41] <smoser> i think that targetting 3 month release cycles seems sane.
[16:42] <larsks> +1 on that.
[16:42] <powersj> sweet
[16:43] <powersj> smoser: https://code.launchpad.net/~powersj/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/327646 can that get a review? ;)
[16:43] <powersj> pretty please
[16:43] <smoser> the 3 month ish release cycles im' more sold on. as semantic versioning is kind of hard for me to find a obvious mapping.
[16:43] <smoser> because
[16:44] <blackboxsw> heh, yep powersj smoser and I both said it'd be on our radar for today
[16:44] <smoser> a.) we generally try to be backwards compatible always
[16:44] <smoser> b.) we don't really offer/support python api (but rather just config module input and such)
[16:44] <smoser> c.) "major feature" on one platform is not necessarily anything to another platform (datasource)
[16:44] <larsks> smoser: I'm certainly not a stickler for semantic versioning, just for rational versioning that communicates somehow that magnitude of changes between releases.
[16:45] <smoser>    even the addition of a new datasource... which is clearly a big deal (we added Scaleway) means nothing for others.
[16:45] <smoser> larsks, it is still hard...
[16:45] <rharper> smoser: generally discussing the roadmap, what we expect to land in the upcoming release should I think bring about any discussion needed about "major" version bumps and what not
[16:46] <larsks> Sure.  I guess an alternative, with a regular release cadence, is ubuntu-style month/year based versioning.
[16:47] <smoser> it certainly seems to me that unless you intend to service the right-most digit of X.Y.Z (or X.Y) then it has no value.
[16:47] <rharper> some downstreams may be interested in just that
[16:48] <larsks> I guess.  I mean, I would argue that if a release consistents pretty much exclusively of bug fixes, that's a .Z release, and if a release introduces new data sources or major internal changes, that's a .Y, and if the behavior changes significantly, that's a .X.
[16:48] <smoser> ie, at this point i do not have intention of upstream maintaining a 1.0 branch to 1.0.1 and 1.0.2 ... (or <IP_ADDRESS> ... )
[16:48] <blackboxsw> so a major.minor bump then based on release cadence ++ an eye to major changes might be of interest
[16:49] <dpb1> smoser: then perhaps a YY.MM scheme might be better
[16:49] <dpb1> since it more closely matches the release scheme
[16:49] <smoser> yeah.
[16:49] <rharper> I think the majority of our "major" features are known within a 6 months timeframe (even 3 months)
[16:50] <rharper> so, whatever the numbers are, discussing the features/roadmap here will make folks interested in the numbers aware of what they mean
[16:52] <smoser> i think that i like the idea of time based release numbers
[16:52] <smoser> and documenting what changes/features/function are in each
[16:52] <larsks> That seems fair.
[16:53] <smoser> hm..
[16:54]  * smoser just can't bring himself to type high version numbers
[16:55] <rharper> 17.09 is just around the corner
[16:55] <rharper> 0.7.9 -> 17.09?  mostly the same numbers, just reordered
[16:55] <smoser> yeah.. i noticed that too.
[16:55] <larsks> Ha :)
[16:55] <dpb1> numerology, fantastic
[16:55] <smoser> and arguably so is 7.9
[16:55] <rharper> the stars are alined
[16:55] <rharper> aligned
[16:55] <smoser> (dropping 2010 years)
[16:55] <dpb1> all hail the 17.09
[16:56] <rharper> yeah, 17.9 would work
[16:56] <rharper> 17.9 -> 17.12 -> 18.3 -> 18.6 etc ?  or do we want the extra zero for comfort ?
[16:57] <smoser> well, the other option is openstack based.
[16:57] <smoser> they dont mark months
[16:57] <smoser> just releases in that year
[16:57] <smoser> 17.1 and 17.2
[16:58] <dpb1> I like that
[16:58] <larsks> Yes, but then you'll endup with people spawning cloud-init sub-projects with names like "Zarkon" and "Farfnagle".
[16:58] <blackboxsw> hah
[16:58] <smoser> larsks, this is a good point.
[16:58] <blackboxsw> (can we call that a "feature" :) )
[16:58] <dpb1> larsks: may it never be!
[16:58] <dpb1> smoser: so
[16:58]  * larsks has the branch name for his next patch.
[16:58] <smoser> it feels to me like i'd keep 17.XX including the zero
[16:58] <rharper> larsks: those are great names!
[16:58] <dpb1> one thing we had in previous projects
[16:58] <dpb1> is the month would change out while qualling the release
[16:59] <larsks> dpb1: "qualling"?
[16:59] <dpb1> then we were like "should we keep it .06 or .07"
[16:59] <dpb1> qualing
[16:59] <dpb1> or quailing
[16:59] <smoser> because Ubuntu 17.10 having cloud-init 17.1 (which was released in the 9th month of 2017) is confusing.
[16:59] <dpb1> doing QA/bug fixing
[16:59] <larsks> Ah, got it.
[16:59] <powersj> smoser: does that mean SRUs to xenial will have 16.04 and a 17.09 in the version?
[16:59] <rharper> powersj: yeah it would
[17:00] <powersj> :\
[17:00] <dpb1> yup
[17:00] <smoser> powersj, numbers mean nothing
[17:00] <powersj> then use 1.0.0 ;)
[17:00] <rharper> except to those who think they do
[17:00] <dpb1> I thought we just established they mean everything and we should hail them
[17:00] <rharper> however, only for 18.04;  16.04 will forever have 0.7.X.16.04.  ... even if it's cloud-init 17.12 or whatever
[17:01] <smoser> rharper, no
[17:01] <smoser> if we new-upstream-snapshot back to 16.04 it will get a new upstream version
[17:01] <smoser> and that is perfectly fine
[17:01] <rharper> ok, so it'll look strange no matter what
[17:02] <smoser> dpb1, you mentioned concern that "qualing" could change the month
[17:02] <rharper> smoser: so on new-upstream release in say xenial, would we ever have a ~16.04.x value?
[17:02] <dpb1> just that it happened often for us
[17:02] <smoser> rharper, well it gets a 16.04.1 value, but that is only to make it < the package version in another ubuntu release.
[17:02] <dpb1> we would start mid september, name the release 17.09, then come october, we would be done and go "oops, now we need to rename to 17.10"
[17:03] <smoser> (that is the only reason those exist... to account for upgrades xenial -> yakkety -> zesty -> aa ... )
[17:03] <rharper> we wouldn't rename a release
[17:03] <dpb1> in the end it didn't matter, as you mentioned, but it bugged us
[17:03] <dpb1> yes
[17:03] <dpb1> I think in our case, we don't name it till we ship it, that's fine
[17:04] <smoser> it does kind of get named.
[17:04] <smoser> at some point you change cloudinit/version.py
[17:04] <dpb1> smoser: it's why I said I liked the "17.1, 17.2" scheme
[17:04] <smoser> i dont know.
[17:04] <dpb1> but, it's minor
[17:04] <dpb1> and in the end it didn't really matter
[17:04] <dpb1> was more of a programmer brain thing
[17:05] <smoser> dpb1, my only issue with that is confusion with ubuntu
[17:05] <smoser> similar but different
[17:05] <dpb1> yes
[17:05] <dpb1> well, making it different helps
[17:05] <dpb1> with powersj's concern
[17:06] <rharper> but not different enough (for ubuntu folks)
[17:06] <dpb1> 16.04...17.1
[17:06] <rharper> but maybe that's just our problem
[17:06] <dpb1> you get used to it, but ya, it can be slightly confusing.
[17:07] <smoser> ok.. .so ignoring that
[17:07] <dpb1> openstack has the same issue, so it's at least not crazy
[17:07] <smoser> lets target a release say on 21 of Sept
[17:07] <smoser> as a stick in the mud
[17:08] <smoser> and that would be called either 17.9 or 17.1
[17:08] <dpb1> week before rally
[17:08] <dpb1> fyi
[17:08] <smoser> that seem sane ?
[17:08] <dpb1> +1
[17:08] <rharper> +1
[17:08] <rharper> though not sure how we resolve the .9 or .1 part
[17:08] <dpb1> wise sage once told me if there truly is no best choice, coin flip
[17:09] <larsks> rharper: flip a coin + documentation, I guess.
[17:09] <blackboxsw> release sounds good , we can get heads together at the rally if we need to work out SRU issues
[17:09] <rharper> larsks: hehe
[17:09] <dpb1> actually, there is a better one
[17:09] <dpb1> you coin flip
[17:09] <smoser> https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&hs=VJz&channel=fs&q=flip+a+coin&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAHvEaMct8PLHPWEp00lrTl5j1OcSyylKS0wuyS-qtHIrzUvKrwjOzC3ISRUS5WIpqSxIFeLl4pbiTM7PzItPy8ks4AEAyHBN80EAAAA
[17:09] <dpb1> then, if you are dissapointed, you choose the opposite
[17:09] <rharper> lol
[17:10] <smoser> other htan ubuntu tie in... i really prefer using only the year.
[17:10] <smoser> ie... 17.1 -> 17.2 independent of the month
[17:10] <dpb1> it's my preference still
[17:10] <dpb1> (slight)
[17:11] <powersj> I like without the month as well
[17:11] <blackboxsw> I'm all for either, I'd like to avoid where the month ends up being incorrect because of release slip due to testing etc
[17:11] <rharper> I like the month, feels like a forcing function since the version is fixed but I don't care that much, and it would make the version different than the ubuntu numbers
[17:12] <smoser> ok. so i'm ready to be done with this. so heres what i propose
[17:12] <blackboxsw> ... though I realize this discussion walking fairly close to bikeshed territory. I'm up for whatever folks think is sane
[17:13] <smoser>  * i pretend that i flipped a coin and it came up in favor of my preference (no minor version linked to month)
[17:13] <smoser>  * i write to mailing list with that as the plan and suggesting the target release date of 17.1 on the 21.
[17:13] <smoser>  * ask for anyone who would *strongly* oppose to say so
[17:13] <smoser> objections ?
[17:14] <larsks> Sounds good to me.
[17:14] <smoser> alright.
[17:15] <smoser> so i'm gonna call this meeting "done" for now. and office hours for the next 30 minutes or so.
[17:15] <smoser> (although i'm going to step out for 5)
[17:15] <smoser> objections before i step out ?
[17:15] <rharper> +1 smoser
[17:15] <blackboxsw> none here
[17:16] <blackboxsw> larsks: I just landed your move tests/unittests/helpers -> cloudinit/tests branch. thank you for the attention there https://code.launchpad.net/~larsks/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/329661
[17:16] <larsks> blackboxsw: awesome, thanks!
[17:16] <larsks> On a completely different topic: is there somewhere in launchpad a link to https://launchpad.net/cloud-init/+activereviews? I can never find it when I want it and end up googling the answer.
[17:16] <blackboxsw> larsks: https://code.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+activereviews
[17:17] <blackboxsw> is what I review daily.
[17:17] <larsks> That...is the same thing I just pasted. I mean, is there a link somewhere ("show all active reviews") that goes there?
[17:18] <powersj> here: https://code.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+ref/master click on "20 branches"
[17:18] <blackboxsw> heh. oops
[17:18] <larsks> powersj: Ah, thanks!
[17:18] <powersj> it includes work in progress, but gets you that same list
[17:19] <powersj> larsks: also sent you mail last week, if you wouldn't mind looking for it sometime after catching up would be much appreciated
[17:19] <larsks> powersj: yah, catching up on oodles of email today :)
[17:19] <powersj> I'm sure :)
[17:19] <powersj> no rush
[17:20] <blackboxsw> harlowja: I noticed your irc client joined mid meeting, figured I'd touch base on this in case you were watching.  I was touching cc_resizefs and saw something that appears to us like vestigial config option "resize_rootfs_tmp"  the only thing the module does with this is ensure_dir to create the directory "/run" if it doesn't exist.
[17:20] <harlowja> hallo
[17:20] <harlowja> will look in a sec blackboxsw (in standup)
[17:20] <blackboxsw> +1: hiya harlowja.  I was going to drop the resize_rootfs_tmp if you didn't think it had any meaning anymore
[17:21] <blackboxsw> http://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/modules.html#resizefs
[17:24] <blackboxsw> a review point  for smoser I think. I'm good w/ sankar's https://code.launchpad.net/~sankaraditya/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/319866 for OVF.  I *think* it's in state to land but wanted to make sure you were good w/ the rewriting of the broken /etc/network/interfaces which adds back the "include /etc/network/interfaces.d" that he's doing there.
[17:25] <smoser> blackboxsw, also see topic
[17:25] <smoser>  http://bit.ly/ci-reviews
[17:26] <blackboxsw> meh, I keep using the bzr review url without realizing it. force of habit
[17:26] <blackboxsw> for shame
[17:30] <blackboxsw> smoser: I pinged in #meetingology channel to try to get that bot added again for us. it dropped out on Aug15th I think looking at IRC logs
[17:35]  * blackboxsw has to run an errand, back in ~20 mins
[17:57] <powersj> smoser: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1715095 another good bug report worth a comment
[17:57] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1715095 in cloud-init "network is only configured on first boot" [Undecided,New]
[19:22] <blackboxsw> yay!
[21:56] <blackboxsw> #startmeeting  cloud-init status meeting
[21:56] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  5 21:56:34 2017 UTC.  The chair is blackboxsw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[21:56] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[21:57] <blackboxsw> #subtopic valuable subthread
[21:57] <blackboxsw> #link https://cloud-init.io
[21:57] <blackboxsw> #endmeeting
[21:57] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  5 21:57:47 2017 UTC.
[21:57] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/cloud-init/2017/cloud-init.2017-09-05-21.56.moin.txt
[21:57] <blackboxsw> this concludes a test broadcast
[21:58] <dpb1> hi meetingology!
[21:58] <blackboxsw> I wasn't sure why it left us. but wanted to make sure we queued up one meeting so it didn't detach due to idle time or something
[22:02] <dpb1> hrmph
[22:02] <dpb1> blackboxsw: how did you get it back in?
[22:02] <blackboxsw> I talked to jose in #meetingology channel on freenode
[22:03] <dpb1> blackboxsw: did he say why it left?
[22:03] <dpb1> does he just not like us?
[22:03] <blackboxsw> it just involved him (as admin) running       meetingology: join #cloud-init
[22:03] <dpb1> two separate "he"s there
[22:03] <blackboxsw> no but I'll ask to be sure