[08:51] <toosa> ping
[08:57] <toosa> hallo ...
[01:47] <freeflying> @schedule shanghai
[01:47] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 18 Sep 22:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 20:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Sep 04:00: Technical Board | 28 Sep 04:00: Edubuntu
[02:41] <irvin> @sked manila
[02:42] <jsgotangco> your puny filipino slang won't work here irvin!
[02:42] <jsgotangco> :D
[02:42] <irvin> :p
[02:43] <irvin> @sched manila
[02:44] <irvin> bah
[02:46] <jsgotangco> @schedule manila
[02:46] <Ubug2> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 18 Sep 22:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 20:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Sep 04:00: Technical Board | 28 Sep 04:00: Edubuntu
[02:46] <jsgotangco> :D
[02:54] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[02:54] <Ubug2> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 19 Sep 00:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 22:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 22 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Sep 06:00: Technical Board | 28 Sep 06:00: Edubuntu
[03:35] <MehdiHassanpour> -
[03:46] <blaa_> hi hi
[03:46] <jono> hey
[03:47] <blaa_> how do I dump database from gentoo to ubuntu
[03:48] <elkbuntu> this isnt a support channel
[03:48] <blaa_> sorry
[03:49] <dsas> blaa_: Please see #ubuntu for support.
[03:49] <blaa_> dsas, thx
[03:56] <jono> ok we will start in about 5mins :)
[03:57] <jsgotangco> dum dummmmm
[03:58] <jono> :P
[04:00] <freeflying> hi all
[04:00] <elkbuntu> how many people are here for this LoCo meeting so far?
[04:01] <jono> ok
[04:01] <david`bgk> I'm, but from office, so not really active
[04:01] <jono> yeah, could everyone who is in the meeting say so :)
[04:01] <MehdiHassanpour> me too ;)
[04:01] <elkbuntu> me, ubuntu-au
[04:02] <newz2000> me, ubuntu webmaster
[04:02] <jsgotangco> yay
[04:02] <jono> ok, could someone else also save the log, my IRC client is a bit screwy
[04:02] <Gekitsuu> I'm here for the meeting
[04:02] <freeflying> jono: fabbione has log
[04:02] <elkbuntu> surely there's a logbot in here
[04:02] <jono> cool
[04:02] <jono> right, lets begin then
[04:03] <jono> I know a bunch of you already,but let me introduce myself
[04:03] <freeflying> jsgotangco: hi, long time haven;t seen you :)
[04:03] <jono> I am Jono Bacon and I the Ubuntu Community Manager working at Canonical
[04:03] <jono> when I started, one of the key things I wanted to work on is LoCo teams
[04:03] <jono> I think that LoCo teams are really centrally important to a strong Ubuntu with plenty of vitality and growth
[04:04] <jono> we have a number of teams who have formed, and some teams are very strong and some need some help and assistance
[04:04] <jono> when I started, one thing was clear though
[04:04] <jono> there was *very little* communication between teams
[04:05] <jono> we had a bunch of teams, many in regionally close areas, but with little or no communication
[04:05] <jono> so, the first plan of action on my "list of things to do to make LoCo teams kiss ass" was to help teams collaborate together
[04:05] <elkbuntu> o.O
[04:05] <jono> erm
[04:05] <jono> kick ass :P
[04:06] <jono> hehe
[04:06] <Gnomonic> Right.
[04:06] <Gnomonic> Got a bit scared, there.
[04:06] <jono> ass kissing is tolerated though if needed :P
[04:06] <jono> so, to help with this I have tried to get loco-contacts on its feet again
[04:06] <elkbuntu> indeed, try avoid the hairy ones though
[04:06] <jono> and that list is intended for groups to talk together and share experiences
[04:07] <elkbuntu> i think many would agree you've made a good start on that, jono :)
[04:07] <jsgotangco> well
[04:07] <jsgotangco> some teams do communicate
[04:07] <MehdiHassanpour> this sharing is very important
[04:07] <jsgotangco> in a server POV
[04:07] <jsgotangco> ;)
[04:07] <jono> thanks elkbuntu
[04:07] <jsgotangco> especially those sharing in one server
[04:07] <MehdiHassanpour> but how
[04:07] <jsgotangco> but that's it
[04:07] <jono> so, communication is clearly important
[04:08] <jono> now, there are a few other plans too:
[04:08] <jono>  * tidy up the New Teams on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
[04:08] <jono> there are lots of teams on that list who have not been accepted as official teams yet
[04:08] <jono> I plan on getting to that when I return from my holiday around oct 7th
[04:09] <jono> also
[04:09] <jono> there is a combination of many different types of team, some confident and experienced, and some not so
[04:09] <jono> I was thinking of methods in which we can level the playing field out a little, and one of the plans is for LoCo teams to mentor each other
[04:10] <jono> some teams are very strong and active, and they could help get teams on their feet
[04:10] <jono> you can think of this as an outsourcing of myself - I just don't have time to attend to *every* team, so mentoring helps spread the load
[04:10] <jono> I have been working with elkbuntu on this, and there is going to be a trial of one team mentoring another and then we will open it up to the full LoCo community
[04:11] <elkbuntu> you also cant speak every language either ;)
[04:11] <jono> hehe
[04:11] <jono> I can barely speak english :P
[04:11] <elkbuntu> ;)
[04:11] <jono> so, the aim of this meeting is to share this progress
[04:11] <elkbuntu> but anyway yeah, should we go into more details?
[04:11] <jono> but to also get ideas for ways we can work together
[04:12] <jono> elkbuntu, sure, do you want to fill people in :)
[04:12] <elkbuntu> sure
[04:12] <Gnomonic> Interruption: Does this meeting have an agenda, or is it just free-talking?
[04:12] <jono> :)
[04:12] <MehdiHassanpour> jono, how and where we can get other teams experiences ?
[04:12] <jono> Gnomonic, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
[04:12] <jono> fairly short agenda
[04:12] <jono> MehdiHassanpour, we will discuss that soon
[04:12] <jono> elkbuntu, shoot :)
[04:13] <elkbuntu> when jono first joined the community, he spoke to me and mentioned this idea about mentoring
[04:13] <elkbuntu> i thought about it for a week or so and said 'yeah, lets give it a go'
[04:14] <Yann2> don't know for you, but I barely have the time to handle -fr, so for other locoteams... :p
[04:14] <elkbuntu> i nominated helping the new zealand loco team, since they're close and through one of their members that lurks in our channel, i had found out they were not going so well
[04:14] <elkbuntu> Yann2, this is my second meeting today, 2 of 4 over 2 days. im going insane ;)
[04:14] <jono> :P
[04:14] <Yann2> I don't think that this kind of mentoring would be really helpful
[04:15] <elkbuntu> Yann2, i also have the benefit of a self-maintaining loco that just needs the occasional prod
[04:15] <elkbuntu> Yann2, what we're doing is a feasability case study
[04:15] <Yann2> ok :p
[04:15] <elkbuntu> to see how it goes, whether it works and so forth
[04:16] <elkbuntu> 4 hours ago, was the -au fortnightly meeting, and in that meeting i invited the nz members i could find and jono to join in
[04:16] <Gnomonic> It doesn't have to be the Team leader or even the LoCo-contact to help. Yann2, couldn't you find a normal team-member to be a sort of Team-mentor-liason?
[04:16] <jono> lets discuss it in a sec folks, and let elkbuntu finish :)
[04:16] <elkbuntu> it was fairly lively, got the nz guys thinking and we have a meeting organised for tomorrow to fling ideas around
[04:16] <david`bgk> jono, I've added a fourth item on the agenda, ok with that?
[04:16] <jono> david`bgk, sure
[04:17] <elkbuntu> so really, things are just starting in this study, and we hope to be able to figure out ways that work and so forth
[04:18] <jono> yes, this is jus a test at first
[04:18] <elkbuntu> did you want to add anything, jono?
[04:18] <Gekitsuu> is it going to be just the one trial or will there be a few?
[04:18] <jono> Gekitsuu, just one at first
[04:18] <elkbuntu> one at a time
[04:18] <elkbuntu> baby steps ;)
[04:18] <jono> let me make clear what I mean by mentoring:
[04:19] <jono> mentoring is not the same process in all scenarios, but it is helping a LoCo group to develop their own culture and way of working
[04:19] <phanatic> hey loco people, sorry for being late...
[04:19] <Ju> (Hi all) for a start, helping other loco, each already running team could describe their platform (tool for wiki, planet, forum and how to combine them) and/or provide the css theme to adapt for each loco, for example some other locoteams were interested by the ubuntu-fr theme
[04:19] <jono> this does not mean "doing stuff" for that group, but will largely involve IRC meetings, and exchanging emails
[04:19] <elkbuntu> guys, hush, jono is speaking
[04:19] <jono> the idea is in keeping the communication channels open between teams and helping those new at setting up teams to get on their feet
[04:20] <jsgotangco> that's supposed to be the purpose of the locoteams channel right?
[04:20] <jono> part of the reason why we are trialling it is so we can identify good mentors - mentors *need* to be good and open at running teams, with random mentoring that is more difficult
[04:20] <elkbuntu> jsgotangco, yep, which is fine if the teams have managed to get some form of order and nominate an actual contact etc
[04:21] <jono> so much of this is about documentation best practice when it comes to mentoring
[04:21] <Yann2> btw, the -locoteams channel has nothing official :)
[04:21] <jono> the grand plan is to develop a community of real community building experts
[04:21] <jono> instead of just building ad-hoc teams, much of this is about developing an education in community building
[04:21] <jono> this will make the community more inclusive, closer and more efficient
[04:22] <jono> ok, thats me done
[04:22] <jono> so any questions
[04:22] <jono> or thoughts :)
[04:22] <Yann2> I love the "sharing locoteams experience" part :)
[04:22] <MehdiHassanpour> I think before mentoring, teams can describe what they do and have done to shape a team
[04:22] <MehdiHassanpour> agree
[04:22] <jono> yes
[04:22] <Yann2> some way to resume what locoteams achieved, and how they did... why not even "recipes"
[04:22] <jono> good point MehdiHassanpour
[04:23] <jono> much of this is about documentation on the wiki :)
[04:23] <jono> lt me answer this:
 (Hi all) for a start, helping other loco, each already running team could describe their platform (tool for wiki, planet, forum and how to combine them) and/or provide the css theme to adapt for each loco, for example some other locoteams were interested by the ubuntu-fr theme
[04:23] <Gnomonic> In my mind, there are several phases of starting a team.
[04:23] <jono> Ju, that is the kind of thing that is important too
[04:23] <newz2000> jono: I can chime in on your comment when you're ready for feedback
[04:23] <jono> I am also interested in exploring how to centralise resources
[04:23] <philwyett> Are you looking at a set of common team goals for locoteams as a whole for a common base to build upon?
[04:24] <jono> ok one sec guys
[04:24] <jono> newz2000, shoot
[04:24] <Gnomonic> I believe that the initial start-up have to come from the team itself, where mentoring is a good solution for getting over the bar for being a full team.
[04:24] <jono> then we can do philwyett
[04:24] <newz2000> Some of you have met me, I'm the Ubuntu webmaster, and have been helping the newer teams get websites.
[04:24] <jono> Gnomonic, definitly
[04:25] <newz2000> If you don't have a website yet for your loco, please talk to me and I can help you get free hosting
[04:25] <jono> newz2000, just as a side note, I am developing some ideas about centralising LoCo resources so it is easier for teams to get going - I will arrange a meeting with you and the Launchpad dudes :)
[04:25] <freeflying> newz2000: where is the server hosted?
[04:25] <newz2000> We have several servers, most in the US, some in EU.
[04:26] <freeflying> jono: centralise locoteam resource? it will be a nightmare for many guys from china
[04:26] <elkbuntu> when newz2000 is finished, i'd like to add something to the comment MehdiHassanpour made
[04:26] <jono> freeflying, good point
[04:26] <newz2000> jono: OK, then I'll guess I'll leave at that for now.
[04:27] <jono> newz2000, cool, thanks!
[04:27] <newz2000> elkbuntu: go ahead
[04:27] <jono> elkbuntu, shoot
[04:27] <elkbuntu> just going back to MehdiHassanpour's comment about before mentoring... the truely successful teams stand out themselves anyway, such as the indonesia team which has managed to get some media lately. jono initially approached me after my appearance in mainstream media here
[04:28] <MehdiHassanpour> that DVD is really usefull for our team too
[04:28] <elkbuntu> i think it's important to keep an eye out for the work of teams that may not necissarily be vocal in the central locoteam channel or who may not know what's goign on outside their area
[04:29] <jono> I think it is important that teams start out themselves and then get mentoring where they need it
[04:29] <jono> mentoring may be a patchy experience, only applied where needed
[04:29] <Gnomonic> :-)
[04:29] <elkbuntu> thats not to say we dont plant the seed and let them decide to come ask for help
[04:30] <jono> yes
[04:30] <jono> ok
 Are you looking at a set of common team goals for locoteams as a whole for a common base to build upon?
[04:31] <jono> philwyett, this is part of the plan
[04:31] <Gnomonic> The sharing of team experiences and projects, I think, is a very good way to plant seeds. Wasn't there a 'ideas for a locoteam'-page at some point?
[04:31] <jono> I am interested in developing some guidence for running a team
[04:31] <jono> Gnomonic, yep
[04:31] <jono> I think we need the following core docs on the wiki:
[04:32] <jono>  * how to run a loco team - a guide about how to run a loco effectively, encourage new members etc
[04:32] <jono>  * things you can do as a loco team - details and ideas of activities a loco can do
[04:32] <jono> I am also developing a document that outlines what a loco team needs to do to get accepted as an official team
[04:32] <MehdiHassanpour> this will be great help, jono
[04:33] <jono> any other questions?
[04:33] <Yann2> (may we have a dedicated website, or will we have to work on the official english wiki?)
[04:33] <MehdiHassanpour> and ask teams to announce what they do
[04:33] <MehdiHassanpour> or have started
[04:34] <jono> Yann2, dedicated site for loco teams?
[04:34] <philwyett> For sharing whats happening in different teams - A live bookmarks feed like the fridge to allow people to see whats happening and maybe move out of their loco-team more?
[04:34] <Gnomonic> I agree with MehdiHassanpour. It helps on the efficiency of a project, when you are in some way 'accountable' for your projects.
[04:34] <jono> Yann2, I would like to see us get out wiki pages up to scratch and then a move to a dedicated site may be an option
[04:34] <Yann2> with wiki, blog, documents for getting approved as official locoteam, hosting, [...]
[04:34] <jono> philwyett, I have been talking to the fridge people about getting far more loco news on there
[04:35] <philwyett> jono: Ah, OK
[04:35] <jono> I think we need loco teams to be able to see what other teams are doing and it will inspsire them to do their own things
[04:35] <philwyett> True
[04:35] <jono> I posted to loco-contacts for case studies and stories, do send them over :)
[04:35] <MehdiHassanpour> many of these projects can be localized and customized by other teams for their local use too
[04:36] <jono> any final questions?
[04:37] <jono> ok
[04:37] <jono> lets cover this item:
[04:37] <jono> Improving communication between LoCo teams and Canonical/Ubuntu orientations
[04:37] <jono> David - want to outline what you mean?
[04:37] <Yann2> david`bgk, ping
[04:37] <jono> thanks Yann2 :)
[04:38] <david`bgk> yes, we don't know what ubuntu/canonical want about locos
[04:38] <jono> right
[04:38] <elkbuntu> afaik thats why we now have jono ;)
[04:38] <MehdiHassanpour> ;)
[04:38] <jono> david`bgk, this is what I am interested in helping with
[04:39] <jono> I want to realise the full potential of the LoCo community
[04:39] <Gnomonic> Every home needs a Jono.
[04:39] <jono> heh
[04:39] <elkbuntu> lol
[04:39] <jono> david`bgk, in answer to your question:
[04:39] <david`bgk> elkbuntu, yes but what about locos and canonical projects? we can do it together (for example spreading ubuntu at the office, etc)
[04:40] <Yann2> david`bgk 's afraid about competition between canonical and community, i think :)
[04:40] <elkbuntu> i think the fact that canonical has hired jono should make it clear that they take the community seriously. jono -is- part of canonical
[04:40] <jono> Canonical have ideas about how LoCo teams can help, and I have stacks of ideas, but part of what I want to do is to help the LoCo community develop cool ideas, schemes and more
[04:40] <david`bgk> Yann2, not at all but what can we do together to promote ubuntu
[04:40] <jono> canonical take community *extremely* seriously
[04:41] <elkbuntu> rightly so since it is the one thing that makes ubuntu awesome
[04:41] <jono> david`bgk, so you mean methods in which we can advocate ubuntu?
[04:41] <david`bgk> jono, yes for example when did they want to promote officially ubuntu in france?
[04:41] <jono> david`bgk, what do you mean 'officially' ?
[04:41] <elkbuntu> david`bgk, you're free to drop into the marketing team channel at any time, btw
[04:42] <david`bgk> yes in terms of marketing
[04:42] <jono> david`bgk, you mean canonical marketing or the ubuntu community marketing?
[04:43] <Yann2> mmmh. in other words, we heard canonical wants to hire someone in france, essentially to do some advocacy
[04:43] <david`bgk> jono, is there a difference between those? (and what about foundation?)
[04:43] <jono> david`bgk, I don't think an effective LoCo structure is for Canonical to say "we want you to do this" and LoCo teams just do it
[04:43] <Yann2> we were surprised they didn'nt ping us, and wondered where our work start, and where it stops :)
[04:43] <jono> Canonical want LoCo teams to be their own entity in many ways
[04:43] <david`bgk> jono, not "want" but maybe "suggest" ;)
[04:43] <elkbuntu> i think there's a distinct line between the responsibilities of canonical and the responsibilities of the community
[04:43] <jono> david`bgk, sure, and we can certainly suggest ideas :)
[04:44] <jono> as for canonical and ubuntu marketing - remember, ubuntu is its own project, but canonical sponsor it
[04:44] <jono> canonical does not rule ubuntu and controll it
[04:44] <Yann2> don't want to troll but... that's not that clear, sorry :/
[04:44] <jono> Yann2, what isnt?
[04:44] <Yann2> well that's another debate
[04:44] <Yann2> that canonical/ubuntu foundation thing
[04:45] <jono> right
[04:45] <elkbuntu> im going to suggest that since this isnt a loco based thing as such it be brought up with the CC
[04:45] <jono> yes
[04:45] <Yann2> let's stick to the topic
[04:45] <Gnomonic> Maybe it would be great with an informational-meeting about that topic?
[04:45] <jono> Gnomonic, I agree
[04:45] <elkbuntu> feel free to suggest it to the CC
[04:45] <Yann2> already have my answer,  from mark himself, just not that satisfied with it :p
[04:46] <jono> I think we need to remember that LoCo teams are not there to just do work for Canonical, but they are there to help and promote Ubuntu
[04:46] <elkbuntu> there is a CC meeting tomorrow
[04:46] <Gnomonic> It you just pop into that an make a suggestion?
[04:46] <jono> david`bgk, if you are interested in Canonical establishing how LoCo teams fit in with the Canonical marketinbg strategy, I think we should think about it
[04:47] <jono> Gnomonic, add it to the agenda
[04:47] <david`bgk> jono, ok now or on the mailing-list?
[04:48] <Gnomonic> Just before we get back on topic. Could anyone check up on it, because I probably won't be able to attend.
[04:48] <MehdiHassanpour> I think loco teams can have some kind of professional support and charge customers too, to cover their costs
[04:49] <jono> david`bgk, I don;t think we have time now, plus I would like to get our Marketing manager along to a meeting about that
[04:49] <jono> david`bgk, maybe at the next LoCo meeting
[04:49] <jono> this brings me onto the subject of LoCo meetings
[04:49] <jono> I would like us to have regular meetings where possib
[04:49] <jono> possible
[04:49] <david`bgk> jono, ok good idea
[04:49] <elkbuntu> yep
[04:49] <jono> but we need to hit the different time zones fairly
[04:49] <jono> so everyone can participate
[04:49] <Gnomonic> I was thinking about suggesting that.
[04:49] <elkbuntu> jono, you know about the timeanddate.com meeting planner?
[04:49] <jono> nope
[04:49] <jono> let me see
[04:50] <elkbuntu> http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
[04:51] <jsgotangco> we alway use that to sched events on diff tzs
[04:51] <jsgotangco> or juse something like tzwatch
[04:51] <jono> elkbuntu, wow thats cool
[04:51] <elkbuntu> timeanddate.com == teh awesome
[04:53] <Yann2> (is the meeting over?)
[04:53] <elkbuntu> not sure
[04:53] <elkbuntu> i think jono's playing with the site
[04:53] <jono> sorry, phone call
[04:53] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:53] <elkbuntu> or that
[04:53] <jono> ok, any final questions or comments?
[04:53] <Yann2> (I noted a lots of good intentions, but nothing really concrete)
[04:54] <jono> the aim of these meeting is not to create actions, but to just discuss some ideas
[04:54] <grimace> damn I've missed it ;)
[04:54] <jono> one concrete decision should be to have regular meetings
[04:54] <elkbuntu> grimace, yeah sorry. the logs will be up soon or so
[04:54] <Gnomonic> I have an idea: What about a LoCo idea pool?
[04:54] <jono> I am thinking every two weeks on a Monday
[04:54] <Gargoyle> I am very new to ubuntu, and the UK team. But I like what <MehdiHassanpour> said.
[04:54] <jono> Gnomonic, good idea, a wiki page where people can add ideas
[04:55] <philwyett> Slight OT question. The wiki is getting slower of late. Is this issue being addressed?
[04:55] <jono> Gargoyle, which point
[04:55] <grimace> elkbuntu: no worries and thanks
[04:55] <Gnomonic> excactly
[04:55] <elkbuntu> philwyett, i believe it is being looked in to
[04:55] <jono> philwyett, it has been, I have been onto the sysadmins about it, I will poke them again
[04:55] <Yann2> 1 every two weeks is a lot :(
 I think loco teams can have some kind of professional support and charge customers too, to cover their costs
[04:55] <philwyett> elkbuntu and jono: Good - thanks.
[04:56] <Hobbsee> jono: ping (at the end of your meeting)
[04:56] <elkbuntu> Yann2 the meetings dont have to be long or in depth, they can be simply a catchup and a chance to ask jono a question in a group environment
[04:56] <jono> I think we need to do meetings fortnightly - so one meeting a month is one timezone, and the other is another
[04:56] <jono> Hobbsee, ok :)
[04:56] <jono> elkbuntu, exactly
[04:57] <Yann2> elkbuntu, it's just my own opinion ;)
[04:57] <freeflying> jono: I still need your help :)
[04:57] <elkbuntu> Yann2, also note what jono said. they'll end up monthly for most people anyway
[04:57] <jono> lets try every two weeks and see how we get on, nothing is cast in stone :)
[04:57] <Gnomonic> What time-zone was this meeting?
[04:57] <jono> gnomefreak, UTC
[04:58] <jono> europe mainly
[04:58] <MehdiHassanpour> I agree with every 2 weeks
[04:58] <jono> although east coast US could fit in and elkbuntu is in .au
[04:58] <elkbuntu> its now 1am here
[04:58] <Gnomonic> I would like to propose that the next 'europe'-meeting be set at least an hour later.
[04:59] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: will be used to having dodgy timezones.  it's a curse of living her.e
[04:59] <jono> heh
[04:59] <jono> right, lets finish up them
[04:59] <elkbuntu> fitting times to people is part of getting into the meeting mode
[04:59] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, aye
[04:59] <jono> I will schedule another meeting, but the next one I won't be there as I am on holiday
[05:00] <Yann2> jono, may I have two words with you after the meeting? :)
[05:00] <jono> Yann2, sure :)
[05:00] <jono> ok, thanks people :)
[05:00] <elkbuntu> jono, how long are you on holiday?
[05:00] <jono> elkbuntu, two weeks
[05:00] <jono> I return Oct 6th
[05:00] <Gnomonic> So the next meeting will be on monday the 2. of october at some-or-the-other time.
[05:00] <Gnomonic> Then no.
[05:00] <elkbuntu> jono, make it after you return, and start the schedule from then
[05:00] <jono> Gnomonic, yep
[05:00] <jono> ok
[05:00] <jono> can do
[05:00] <Gnomonic> I agree with the elk.
[05:00] <jono> maybe start on Oct 10th
[05:00] <MehdiHassanpour> I agree
[05:01] <jono> cool :)
[05:01] <jono> obviously you can't get enough jono, which is understandable :P
[05:01] <Gnomonic> It's a deal then.
[05:01] <jono> cool
[05:01] <MehdiHassanpour> set it whenever you are and have time
[05:01] <elkbuntu> you're effectively the point of these meetings jono, so your attendance is priority
[05:01] <jono> ok cool :)
[05:01] <MehdiHassanpour> ;)
[05:02] <Gnomonic> :-)
[05:02] <jono> thanks for attending people, and keep using loco-contacts :)
[05:02] <elkbuntu> meeting closed then?
[05:02] <jono> dsas, haha
[05:02] <Gnomonic> i guess so.
[05:03] <elkbuntu> goodnight all :)
[05:04] <Gnomonic> bye
[05:04] <MehdiHassanpour> nice to meet you all
[06:22] <poningru> frack
[06:22] <poningru> I missed the meeting
[06:22] <poningru> again


[02:31] <nagromlt> who here likes ubuntu
[05:20] <pitti> Good morning
[05:21] <pitti> infinity: ah, ok; they don't have anything in particular in their status other than an obsolete error message, so I didn't dare and turn them to auto again
[05:23] <pitti> infinity: oops, did you see that glibc fails to unpack now?
[05:23] <pitti> infinity: I'm aware of debian bug 776257, could it be that?
[05:24] <pitti> would be weird if patch would have gotten broken in two different ways
[05:31] <pitti> rbasak: did you see that mysql-5.5 is stuck in -proposed as it seems to make pinba-engine-mysql-5.5 uninstallable?
[06:18] <infinity> pitti: I saw the test failure, but I can't reproduce it, so I have no idea what autopkgtest is doing differently.
[06:18] <infinity> pitti: Downloading the source and running dpkg-source -x works fine.
[06:18] <pitti> infinity: I can reproduce it easily here
[06:19] <pitti> infinity: i. e. mere apt-get source glibc under vivid
[06:19] <infinity> pitti: Oh.  Maybe my patch isn't up to date.  Didn't see the bug was patch, not dpkg.
[06:19] <pitti> infinity: do you have patch 2.7.3-1?
[06:19] <infinity> pitti: No, 2.7.1-7 ... Hence why I couldn't reproduce.
[06:19] <infinity> pitti: Anyhow, I *could* fix the git-updates patch, but really, patch needs fixing.
[06:20] <pitti> infinity: in the systemd package I worked around that by changing my patch to not create a dangling symlink, but it was trivial there
[06:20] <pitti> infinity: yes, indeed
[06:20] <infinity> pitti: Given that my git-updates patch is auto-generated, I don't really want to mangle it to work around bugs.
[06:20] <pitti> anyway, I need to leave for the train station, bbl
[06:20] <infinity> pitti: Thanks for the bug pointer, though, I was stumped.
[07:07] <pitti> infinity: yeah, me too when I saw the systemd bug report
[07:08] <pitti> infinity: was that what you pinged me about last night?
[07:25] <dholbach> good morning
[07:49] <infinity> pitti: It was, yeah.
[07:55] <mlankhorst> morning
[07:55] <mlankhorst> infinity: that might be on purpose
[07:56] <mlankhorst> not 100% sure
[07:56] <mlankhorst> in case other packages depend on it
[07:57] <mlankhorst> infinity: /usr/share/bug/xserver-xorg-core/script is a symlink to ../xserver-xorg-core-lts-utopic/script
[08:05] <mlankhorst> oh you mean the specific packages, hmm..
[08:06] <mlankhorst> I'll fix that for the -vivid backprot
[09:07] <pitti> jibel: did you see anything weird about the gmsh test? i. e. always failed on i386, always passed on amd64, but britney considers it a regression?
[09:11] <jibel> pitti, I didn't find why. And it is just for gmsh/mesa.
[09:11] <jibel> pitti, you can force the result in the history file
[09:16] <pitti> jibel: ok, doing that then; I did the same for a similar case recently, but it's happending seldomly enough
[09:21] <pitti> jibel: ok, doing that then; I did the same for a similar case recently, but it's happending seldomly enough
[09:21] <Laney> (echo in here)
[09:22] <pitti> I got disconnected after lagging for 5 mins, I wasn't sure if my last message went through :)
[09:22] <Laney> :P
[09:22] <pitti> ... through .... through
[09:22] <pitti> mlankhorst: I forced gmsh, mesa should propagate now
[09:27] <highvoltage> wom 21
[09:27] <highvoltage> oh my
[09:31] <mlankhorst> thanks
[09:42] <LocutusOfBorg1> hi dear developers
[09:43] <LocutusOfBorg1> mdeslaur, how do you feel about getting openssl 1.0.2 into vivid? Just asking since you said that the merge was in hold until the next release
[09:43] <LocutusOfBorg1> of course I can do the merge and give it to you for review
[09:55] <LocutusOfBorg1> hi folks, why virtualbox/precise-proposed didn't migrate yet?
[09:55] <LocutusOfBorg1> in proposed since  2015-01-16
[10:05] <rbasak> pitti: no, I wasn't aware (it was a security upload). I'll look - thanks.
[10:13] <rbasak> Looks like pinba-engine-mysql just needs a no change rebuild every time there's a new microrelease of MySQL.
[10:14] <rbasak> I wonder if that means its uninstalling in stable releases as well.
[10:23] <rbasak> Indeed it does.
[10:23] <rbasak> mdeslaur: ^^ something to be aware of. Looks like a no change rebuild is required for every release for every mysql 5.5 microrelease if we don't want to break pinba-engine-mysql.
[10:24] <rbasak> I'd argue that the strict versioning is wrong, mind. There should not be any ABI breaks in microreleases.
[10:24] <rbasak> Nobody has complained, either. There are no Launchpad bugs for the package.
[10:26] <rbasak> Ubuntu popcon reports: 1 install, no votes.
[10:28] <rbasak> Looks like it's been blocked from jessie for almost a year for the same reason.
[10:28] <Laney> Don't think Ubuntu popcon really works any more, so I wouldn't use that for data
[10:28] <rbasak> No uploads in Debian in that time.
[10:32] <rbasak> (unrelated) How do I find reverse dependencies for a virtual package?
[10:32] <rbasak> apt-cache rdepends doesn't seem to know about these; nor "reverse-depends"
[10:32] <rbasak> Do I need to resort to grep-dctrl?
[10:51] <pitti> Laney, cjwatson: hm, so I don't understand why systemd breaks libguestfs at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt
[10:52] <pitti> systemd in -proposed drops the obsolete libsystemd-{login,journal,daemon,id128-}0 libs, but there are no reverse dependencies any more
[10:52] <pitti> all of these binary packages install just fine in a vivid-proposed schroot
[10:52] <pitti> and libguestfs0 now depends on libsystemd0 only
[10:52] <pitti> (and that rebuild already propagated)
[10:53] <pitti> any idea what I can do to find out what britney is complaining about?
[10:53] <pitti> there's some NBS involved here, but I can't possibly remove the old libs from vivid before -6ubuntu1 gets promoted to vivid
[10:54] <Unit193> Laney: Re: popcon.  At least right now, it's broken (not updating the page correctly) again, but since it's opt-in anyway...  Normally rt needs poked to fix it, and it seems to break every few months.
[10:54] <Unit193> And indeed, congrats making it another year.
[10:56] <pitti> didrocks: btw, I sorted out https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+source/systemd/+imports
[10:56] <pitti> should appear in the next langpacks
[10:59] <sitter> didrocks: heya, I hear we are getting bluez5 in vivid? any ETA on that? ;)
[10:59] <pitti> sitter: I think that's more a question for cyphermox?
[11:01] <ogra_> and i guess it really depends how fast the phone can get ported over
[11:02] <brainwash> can someone please move xfdesktop4 from trusty-proposed to -updates? bug 1365965
[11:02] <Laney> pitti: hmm, let's see
[11:04] <sitter> ogra_: that isn't even ported yet :O
[11:06] <cjwatson> pitti: libguestfs0 still Depends: libsystemd-journal0
[11:06] <cjwatson> pitti: if you tried to rebuild to make shlibdeps go away, then I think perhaps it has a hardcoded dep in debian/control
[11:09] <Laney> It's put in there by a substvar which comes from some data in the source tree
[11:10] <cjwatson> ah yeah
[11:10] <cjwatson> ./appliance/packagelist.in:81:  libsystemd-journal0
[11:16] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: the merge for isdnutils from unstable is quite ready, but now came another problem. libcapi20-3 is now in separated package, which we need yet to sync.
[11:43] <pitti> Laney, cjwatson: no, I already checked that debian/control doesn't have a hardcoded dep (it did, but I fixed those)
[11:43] <pitti> I rebuilt it locally, and it only depends on libsystemd0; ubuntu4 now also does that
[11:44] <pitti> ah, I'll try to update ./appliance/packagelist.in too, although I don't see how that affects the built debs
[11:45] <cjwatson> It's via a twisty chain of stuff
[11:45] <cjwatson> I didn't bother to fully investigate but it's fairly clear from ${appliance:Depends}
[12:02] <didrocks> sitter: depends on the phonefundation team for Touch, blocked on their kernel and integration
[12:02] <didrocks> sitter: I noticed that rsalveti put that on their list for the next few weeks
[12:03] <sitter> goody, thanks for the update :)
[12:03] <didrocks> yw!
[12:07] <rbasak> infinity: around?
[12:07] <rbasak> (mysql)
[12:20] <mdeslaur> rbasak: hrm, interesting, but also a PITA for something potentially nobody uses :)
[12:28] <rbasak> mdeslaur: yeah. I'm tempted to ignore it unless someone complains, given that it's not in jessie and appears unmaintained.
[12:29] <mdeslaur> rbasak: +1
[12:29] <rbasak> mdeslaur: (except to no-change rebuild in vivid and future development releases which we need for proposed migration)
[12:29] <mdeslaur> oh, vivid didn't migrate? sorry about that, I had not noticed
[12:34] <xnox> didrocks: pitti: i'm starting to work on "/dev/null to remove wants" set of patches for systemd
[12:34] <xnox> at the moment only did a trivial: systemctl --system --global enable to generate symlinks in /lib
[12:34] <xnox> instead of /etc
[12:34] <xnox> where shall i send this work in progress?
[12:34] <xnox> and/or publish.
[12:35] <didrocks> xnox: maybe we should get some kind of upstream agreement?
[12:35] <xnox> didrocks: we do.
[12:35] <didrocks> hum, I missed that message on the ML
[12:36] <xnox> didrocks:  in december archives lennart said that he will take patches that cleanly implement logic as specified to "unwant if symlink target is to /dev/null" I believe i've added links to the messages from lennart on the pad
[12:36]  * xnox makes a git repository
[12:36] <xnox> on github
[12:36] <didrocks> xnox: but not on the --global -> symlinks
[12:37] <xnox> didrocks: yeah, but it's kind of convenient to have whilst hacking on these things =)
[12:37] <xnox> didrocks: plus e.g. i imagine we would want packaging to use --system --global to genere symlinks at package built time or some/such.
[12:37] <xnox> otherwise running --enable and iterating moving things from /etc to /lib is pain.
[12:41] <didrocks> xnox: well, I would really wait for the sprint, as there is no clear agreement, even with debian, on the finale decision
[12:42] <xnox> didrocks: i need this not for debian ;-)
[12:43] <mitya57> cjwatson: hi, can you please look at bug 1409433?
[12:43] <didrocks> xnox: and not in ubuntu then ?
[12:43] <xnox> didrocks: elsewhere
[12:46] <cjwatson> mitya57: Just the demotions?
[12:50] <mitya57> cjwatson: yes, not only perlqt, but the list in bug description
[12:50] <cjwatson> Yeah, I think you missed a couple from that even, but I'm checking component-mismatches
[12:51] <cjwatson> qimageblitz and smokegen can go too
[12:52] <mitya57> Great
[12:58] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: I uploaded your ppp from -proposed, libcapi20-3 from unstable and merged isdnutils to my PPA.
[12:59] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: Every from those packages built fine. You can try to use it. (https://launchpad.net/~ari-tczew/+archive/ubuntu/testing/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=vivid)
[13:00] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: libcapi20-3 is already in NEW. (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=)
[13:03] <cjwatson> I'd be wary of NEWing libcapi20-3 until the new isdnutils source is also on its way into the archive
[13:03] <ari-tczew> If new libcapi goes to -release, we have to rebuild all reverse depends. (http://paste.ubuntu.com/9897689/)
[13:03] <cjwatson> Just to avoid problems with the overwritten binary
[13:04] <cjwatson> The new libcapi won't go to the release pocket until all reverse-dependencies are rebuilt, I wouldn't expect?  proposed-migration should ensure that
[13:04] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: should do I to upload isdnutils right now?
[13:04] <cjwatson> Unless the dependencies are wrong
[13:04] <cjwatson> I don't know, I haven't reviewed it :)
[13:05] <cjwatson> mitya57: .
[13:05] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: do you need to review? I thought I have permissions ;-)
[13:05] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: I don't, but you asked me a question to which I don't have the answer without reviewing it :)
[13:06] <mitya57> cjwatson: thanks a lot
[13:07] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: so if you'd be nice to answer it would be good, because we're staying in the place :)
[13:07] <ari-tczew> However, isdnutils needs ppp to get built.
[13:07] <mitya57> cjwatson: launchpad still thinks pyqt5 is in main: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyqt5/5.4+dfsg-1~ubuntu1/+publishinghistory
[13:07] <ari-tczew> ppp is waiting in -proposed. :(
[13:07] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: I'm not blocking it
[13:08] <cjwatson> If you have the technical permission to upload it, you're taking responsibility for it, you think it's correct, and nobody's objecting, you should probably upload it :)
[13:08] <cjwatson> I'm happy to accept the libcapi20-3 sync once there's an isdnutils dep-waiting on it
[13:09] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: ok, I'll upload it
[13:10] <cjwatson> mitya57: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyqt5/+publishinghistory clarifies, there was a separate upload in release vs. -proposed
[13:10] <cjwatson> mitya57: sorted now
[13:12] <mitya57> cjwatson: oh yes, I should have said that, thanks anyway
[13:12] <doko> urgh, everybody moves away from isdn ...
[13:32] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: ok, isdnutils is dep-waiting already
[13:48] <doko> pitti, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/195907605/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-ppc64el.openjdk-8_8u40~b22-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[13:49] <doko> ugh, and is there a way to tell oemstrip to leave some files untouched?
[14:11] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: libcapi20-3 accepted
[14:12] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: cool, thanks. I'll rebuilt all reverse-depends.
[14:12] <ari-tczew> s/rebuillt/rebuild
[14:35] <pitti> doko: hm, is that a timeout or something? I don't see an error message
[14:36] <pitti> ah yes, I see it at the end
[14:36] <doko> pitti, yes, but a timeout during stripping? and how can I tell oemstrip not to touch libjvm.so?
[14:38] <pitti> (it's pkgstriptranslations)
[14:38] <pitti> doko: could it be that this is just a large build tree, and finding/taring the *.po files is slow on that builder?
[14:39] <doko> there are no .po files
[14:39] <doko> and ppc64el should be one of the fastest
[14:39] <pitti> doko: as for your question, debian/rules can export NO_PKG_MANGLE=1
[14:40] <doko> pitti, that would be all or nothing
[14:44] <cyphermox> ari-tczew: thanks for looking into isdnutils
[14:44] <cyphermox> I had started but couldn't make sense of the new libcapi20-3, I didn't think to look in new
[14:44] <cyphermox> what's the source package for it?
[14:46] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: you're welcome,
[14:46] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcapi20-3/1:3.27-1
[14:46] <cyphermox> ah
[14:47] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: these two binaries were shipped in isdnutils, but they have been splitted out to separate source libcapi20-3 (link above)
[14:48] <cyphermox> yeah, I saw
[14:48] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: I saw you've merged nm-applet. have you been dreaming about that?
[14:48] <cyphermox> what do you mean?
[14:48] <cyphermox> it's not quite a merged
[14:48] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: I guess you've spent a half of night :P
[14:48] <cyphermox> I've taken it a few steps closer to being mergeable
[14:49] <cyphermox> nah, actually it took far less time than I had expected
[14:49] <cyphermox> I had more trouble with an accessibility patch than with the indicator patch
[14:49] <ari-tczew> not bad
[14:50] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: what are the next steps to do?
[14:50] <ari-tczew> plugins from universe?
[14:50] <cyphermox> network-manager-pptp, which I had already started
[14:50] <cyphermox> that will unblock things
[14:51] <cyphermox> after that yes, the other plugins
[14:51] <cyphermox> also, whatever libcapi reverse-depends.
[14:52] <pitti> doko: hm, if it doesn't have any desktop files, gnome help, or translation files, then it's basically just a bunch of "find" commands; I can't see from the log where it's stuck :/ we'd need a set -x output, or just retry the build and see whether it gets further/hangs at a different place, and maybe inspect dmesg to see if it has a stuck process?
[14:53] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: I'm on it in the evening
[14:53] <ari-tczew> till all libcapi20-3 builds are ready
[14:54] <ari-tczew> arm64 is still waiting
[14:54] <cyphermox> ari-tczew: ok, in that care let me know when you have time, because I'll start on them
[14:54] <pitti> hallyn, stgraber: ah, systemd with the user lxc cgroup permission fix finally went in
[14:55] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: ok. I hope in a few hours rebuilds are ready.
[14:55]  * ari-tczew is going away. exams @school this weekend.
[14:59] <stgraber> pitti: yay!
[15:27] <taihsiang> hi, I tried the latest vivid-server-amd64.iso  today http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/20150127/
[15:27] <taihsiang> and found an issue: Jan 27 14:39:30 in-target: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[15:28] <taihsiang> Jan 27 14:39:30 in-target:  perl : Depends: perl-base (= 5.20.1-4) but 5.20.1-5 is to be installed
[15:28] <taihsiang> but I am not sure where is the best place to report this bug.
[15:28] <taihsiang> May someone tell me where to report this issue? Thanks.
[15:38] <cjwatson> taihsiang: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage since that's an image build problem
[15:41] <caribou_> I would need some help from some AA to remove makedumpfile from the sync-blacklist so I can sync it from experimental
[15:42] <taihsiang> cjwatson, thanks
[15:43] <taihsiang> cjwatson, if I remember correct, it is very usual issue when playing around with a daily image. This kind of issues (package dependency, especially perl-*) happened to me several times.
[15:44] <cjwatson> taihsiang: This one is because the image build system's mirror didn't get properly updated when that image was being built, possibly a locking issue that we've run into before.
[15:46] <taihsiang> cjwatson, understood. thanks for the clear explanation.
[15:48] <cjwatson> caribou: done
[15:49] <caribou> cjwatson: many thanks sir
[16:21] <alexbligh1> rbasak, any news on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/apache2/+bug/1366174 ?
[16:21] <pitti> jibel: bah, so who broke php :)
[16:21] <rbasak> pitti: o/
[16:22] <pitti> rbasak: I got a gazillion test regressions as php seems uninstallable now
[16:22] <rbasak> pitti: yeah, that's expected. I needed to rebuild a new php-json after uploading php5. That's done now.
[16:22] <pitti> right, that's one of the first items in the pkgProblemResolver output
[16:23] <pitti> rbasak: ah, so we only need to rebuild few packages, not all of them?
[16:23]  * pitti restarts a random one to see
[16:23] <rbasak> pitti: need to rebuild everything that depended on the old ABI. About 50. I just uploaded the rebuilds a few minutes ago.
[16:24] <rbasak> I'm not sure how that maps to the dep8 tests exactly.
[16:24] <rbasak> So I wasn't going to ask for retests until those builds had finished.
[16:24] <pitti> rbasak: ah nice; so every package which did get an upload will at least trigger its own test and thus auto-fix itself
[16:24] <pitti> rbasak: and the rest we just retry tomorrow morning then
[16:24] <pitti> rbasak: thanks for the heads-up
[16:25] <rbasak> pitti: ack. Sorry I didn't warn in advance. I don't know how else I could have approached this, but I'll warn next time.
[16:25]  * cjwatson re-enables adare and ross for now
[16:25] <pitti> rbasak: no problem at all -- the smiley was deliberate :)
[16:26] <rbasak> :)
[16:26] <cjwatson> Though not totally sure they're going to manage openjdk-6 in finite time.  Oh well
[16:26] <pitti> rbasak: we have -proposed exactly for this; I was just a bit surprised when I looked in my mailbox
[16:31] <kirkland> pitti: howdy, systemd question for you....
[16:32] <kirkland> pitti: does /usr/sbin/service need any additional logic to start/stop/status systemd services?
[16:32] <kirkland> pitti: it does a good job of being a layer of abstraction between sysvinit and upstart services
[16:33] <kirkland> pitti: it crosses my mind that perhaps some new logic might be needed for systemd services...
[16:33] <pitti> kirkland: what do you mean wrt. "new logic"?
[16:34] <pitti> kirkland: btw, if you want to write anything which is portable between init systems, don't use systemctl, but invoke-rc.d (for package maintainer scripts) or "service" (for programs)
[16:34] <pitti> these get alogn with sysv, upstart, and systemd
[16:35] <pitti> like "service foo start"
[16:35] <kirkland> pitti: exactly :-)  (fwiw, I wrote /usr/sbin/service many moons ago)
[16:35] <pitti> kirkland: oh, that was you? didn't know that :)
[16:35] <kirkland> pitti: indeed :-)
[16:35] <pitti> #   * August 2008 - Dustin Kirkland<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:36] <kirkland> pitti: the earliest code was a port from RH, but it grew far beyond that, with upstartedness
[16:36] <kirkland> pitti: anyway, I was just wondering if it needed anything else to support upstart, and I was checking if you guys were already on top of it
[16:37] <pitti> kirkland: as far as I'm aware, invoke-rc.d and service fully support all three now
[16:37] <pitti> kirkland: utopic's still had some bugs, though, so I'm talking "vivid" here
[16:37] <kirkland> pitti: fantastic, I should have known you were on top of it :-)
[16:38] <kirkland> pitti: ah, look at that (I just opened the code, which I should have done BEFORE opening my mouth) :-)
[16:38] <pitti> kirkland: no worries at all :)
[16:40] <ivoks> CVE-2015-0235
[16:40] <ivoks> ubottu: thanks, that was fast :)
[16:52] <rbasak> alexbligh1: sorry, I haven't forgotten. I'm asking around to see if anybody else can take it on. Otherwise it'll probably after I've got mysql 5.6 done, which is taking longer than I expected.
[16:52] <alexbligh1> rbasak, no problem. If there's anything I can do to speed things up do drop me a line.
[16:55] <pfsmorigo> hi, I'm setting a preseed. What's the diff between d-i apt-setup and apt-mirror-setup?
[16:56] <pfsmorigo> hmm.. maybe that's not the channel for this doubt, sorry
[17:05] <pitti> stgraber: oh, and if you could confirm that your machine with the bond interface is booting/working correctly now, I'd appreciated
[17:06] <pitti> stgraber: I made some guesses about reproducing it (do you use ifenslave?)
[17:06] <stgraber> pitti: that machine uses ifenslave, yes and I'll check in about two weeks
[17:06] <stgraber> being 7000km away from it, not feeling like taking the chance :)
[17:06] <pitti> stgraber: ok; using ifenslave is the most important bit of it (I don't know if there's another way)
[17:07] <pitti> stgraber: with ifenslave, the reason for the hang was quite clear
[17:08] <stgraber> ah yeah, ifup bond0 waits for ifup of ethX (or the other way around depending on the order they're brought up)
[17:08] <pitti> stgraber: so, should be all good now
[17:11] <ogra_> stgraber, tks ... 7000km ... just strech your arm a bit
[17:21] <doko> pitti, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/195961040/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-ppc64el.openjdk-8_8u40~b22-1ubuntu1_UPLOADING.txt.gz  so no processes hanging, now just building with PKG_NO_MANGLE
[17:33] <semiosis> DktrKranz: ping?
[17:33] <semiosis> DktrKranz: regarding https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343376
[17:48] <infinity> rbasak: I was not around, it was 5am.
[17:50]  * cyphermox -> lunch
[17:54] <jamespage> doko, apologies its taken me a while to find time but component-mismatches is now alot cleaner - less maven explosion
[17:57] <rbasak> infinity: I never know what timezone you're in :)
[17:57] <rbasak> infinity: I'm EOD now. Can we chat tomorrow?
[17:58] <infinity> rbasak: I never know what timezone I'm in either, and sure.
[18:00] <doko> jamespage, much appreciated
[21:52] <alexbligh1> I have made a cockup on some software which has been deployed to some of our customers. In essence, when Ubuntu was at 12.04, I shipped package A with a version number of X (which was our internal s/w version and nothing to do with package A's version). Trusty now ships a more modern version of package A (let's say version Y), but unfortunately X>Y. This means apt-get upgrade doesn't upgrade the packages.  Package A is brought in by a package we ship.
[21:56] <semiosis> alexbligh1: i think you can make your package depend on a specific version (or range of versions, less than X) so that apt will pull in the trusty universe package
[21:58] <alexbligh1> semiosis, mmm. OK. So if I depend on 'foo<N' and foo 0.01 is in one repo, and foo 9.00 is in another, that will automatically take foo 0.01 rather than ignore foo 0.01 because it's outdated?
[21:59] <semiosis> seems worth a try
[22:00] <alexbligh1> semiosis, this is all a bit of a mess as (to my shame) I actually cocked up three of four packages which depend on eachother
[22:00]  * alexbligh1 buries head in hands
[22:14] <nijopa> Afternoon everyone
[22:15] <nijopa> Is this the appropriate channel to ask a quick question about getting debug symbols for the GCC toolchain under Ubuntu 14.04 LTS?
[22:15] <nijopa> If not, can you suggest an appropriate one?
[22:24] <RAOF> nijopa: #ubuntu would also be appropriate. In general, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash#Installing_debug_symbols_manually
[22:25] <RAOF> nijopa: (The gcc tools have a bunch of -dbgsym packages with the stripped symbols)
[22:40] <nijopa> RAOF - thanks
[22:41] <nijopa> I've found the debug packages, and I know about how to do the install
[22:42] <nijopa> I'm actually having trouble installing them (getting dependency errors) and also, the contents don't appear to be what I'd expect.
[22:42] <nijopa> For example, what appears to be the top level debug symbol package only contains a handful of files
[22:43] <nijopa> when I'd expect it to contain more, or install a bunch of dependencies.
[22:43] <nijopa> It's not a big deal - I can build the toolchain from scratch easily enough
[22:47] <RAOF> nijopa: Yeah, you'd need to install all the individual debug packages; we don't do a “install all the symbols for the whole stack” metapackage.


[00:00] <micahg> hggdh: the question is that if an upstream project which uses LP already has a bug for something that's in ubuntu and there is a bug in ubuntu, what do we do?
[00:10] <hggdh> ah
[00:11] <hggdh> micahg: then yes, I think dupping against the upstream would make sense. But this would have to be always done -- it does not make sense to have different options
[00:12] <micahg> hggdh: well, 1. should upstream see ubuntu bug spam?
[00:12] <micahg> 2. can LP have an upstream task to itself?
[00:14] <hggdh> two good questions, no easy answer. But (1) they already see bug spam (or, at least, can see if they so want); (2) it can, but does not make much sense, similar to the chicken and egg issue
[00:15] <micahg> ok, so dupe and open an ubuntu task
[00:16] <micahg> hggdh: right?
[00:16] <hggdh> this is how I would go, yes. Of course, mileage can vary
[00:16] <micahg> should I add a wiki page for it?
[00:16] <hggdh> I asked the same thing during UDS, and did not get a firm position
[00:17] <micahg> should I add it to the meeting agenda again for next month or ML it?
[00:17] <hggdh> Micah... not sure it warrants a wiki by itself, but at least a comment, yes
[00:17] <hggdh> ML it, if you do not mind
[00:17] <micahg> that's the main question I had for last months meeting :)
[00:18] <hggdh> this is a question I have had for a while ;-)
[00:18] <micahg> hggdh: well, the wiki shows info about the upstream bug trackers
[00:18] <micahg> and LP qualifies
[00:18] <micahg> with it's own process
[00:18] <micahg> *its
[00:18] <hggdh> yes. The problem is we are under LP
[00:18] <micahg> hggdh: -control or squad ML?
[00:18] <hggdh> we can go ortodox, but does it really make sense?
[00:18] <hggdh> -control
[00:19] <hggdh> methinks
[00:25] <micahg> hggdh: done
[00:27] <hggdh> I will add my .02 cents to it
[00:28] <hggdh> and yes, it is a .02 cents. Inflation adjustments
[00:55] <SoftwareExplorer> I'm getting ready to report a Lucid bug. Every time an application starts to play a sound or stops playing a sound there is a pop/click. Does anyone know if I should report this as a bug for the pulseaudio package or the linux package?
[00:57] <BUGabundo> SoftwareExplorer: ask crisum in #ubuntu+1
[00:57] <BUGabundo> PA / alsa is his domain
[00:59] <SoftwareExplorer> BUGabundo: OK, I will thanks
[01:00] <BUGabundo> np
[02:01] <rCX> I contacted the upstream developers for bug #472818 and they confirmed that this behavior is intentional and not a bug.
[02:01] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 472818 in playonlinux "guiv3.py crashed with IndexError in AutoReload() (dup-of: 392513)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/472818
[02:01] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 392513 in playonlinux "guiv3.py crashed with IndexError in AutoReload()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392513
[02:02] <rCX> oops I meant bug #472918
[02:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 472918 in quick-lounge-applet "Applet does not respect a size of 1 with 2 items" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/472918
[02:02] <rCX> Should it be marked as a wishlist item?
[02:03] <rCX> Should I mark it as invalid? thanks!
[02:04] <micahg> rCX: did they say they are willing to modify the behaviour?
[02:04] <rCX> micahg: no
[02:05] <micahg> so they won't change it, right?
[02:05] <rCX> micahg: yup, not going to change it
[02:05] <micahg> rCX: please comment with what they told you and I will mark Won't Fix
[02:06] <rCX> micahg: ok thanks
[02:08] <rCX> micahg: I commented but it won't let me select "won't fix" :(
[02:08] <micahg> rCX: that's why I said I'll mark it won't fix :)
[02:08] <micahg> only bug-control members can set it
[02:09] <rCX> micahg: Ok thanks :D
[02:09] <micahg> rCX: done
[05:53] <dnm> is any one using ubuntu on dell xps
[05:53] <dnm> wanted some help
[05:55] <dnm> can some one help... i am new to ubuntu and i cant use my wifi
[05:57] <JFo> dnm, the #ubuntu channel is your best bet.
[05:57] <dnm> thnaks
[05:57] <JFo> my pleasure
[06:01] <roark_deviated> I'm new to ubuntu bugs, learning how to triage. Do you know where I can find bugs that have been properly triaged so I can see how its done. I already read the how-to but I need an example to better guide me.
[10:59] <thekorn> bug 500000
[10:59] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 500000 in usplash "wrong aspect ratio boot splash on widescreen screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/500000
[10:59] <thekorn> nice!
[12:17] <Guest35297> hi there, I'm fairly sure I've found a bug in kubutntu but I have no diea what package it might be with.
[12:17] <Guest35297> it's very similar to this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgphoto2/+bug/355998 but with an mp3 player not a camera
[12:17] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 355998 in libmtp "usb-storage: waiting for device to settle before scanning" [Undecided,Fix released]
[12:17] <Guest35297> also, it's kubuntu 9.10. any suggestions?
[12:25] <vmos> anyone?
[12:25] <vmos> dust?
[12:28] <vmos> I've tried  ubuntu-bug storage but it insists on a package name, any advice on narrowing it down?
[12:45] <qense> vmos: try executing just 'ubuntu-bug', that should provide you with a list of one item where you can choose the storage problems from.
[13:15] <vmos> thanks qense but when I try that it says "You need to specify a package or a PID. See --help for more information", I saw help and it didn't help
[14:37] <tgrundle> i am experiencing a bug in Luicid that has been reported in debian, should i create a bug report in launchpad and reference the debian? tickethttp://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=559289
[14:37] <ubot4> Debian bug 559289 in hplip "/lib/udev/rules.d/56-hpmud_support.rules: udev warnings: SYSFS{}= will be removed in a future udev version..." [Normal,Open]
[16:02] <qense> tgrundle: I would only report the issue here as well if it requires action from Ubuntu developers as well, otherwise it's just extra work to keep track of it.
[16:04] <charlie-tca> hggdh: you around?
[16:09] <hggdh> charlie-tca: I am
[16:09] <hggdh> charlie-tca: hope you are OK
[16:09] <charlie-tca> Never mind. I answered my question already
[16:09] <hggdh> heh
[16:10] <charlie-tca> Hey, I must be doing better.
[16:10] <hggdh> :-)
[16:10] <charlie-tca> I signed off that xchat bug report from karmic alpha3
[16:11] <hggdh> oh
[16:11] <hggdh> and I moved away from xchat, into weechat (git head)
[16:11] <charlie-tca> oh
[16:12] <hggdh> current dev version looks really nice
[16:13] <charlie-tca> I got too many things I am trying to get my head around again now
[16:54] <micahg> hggdh: if I send a frozen app a SIGSEGV, will the apport crash show why it froze?
[17:33] <hggdh> micahg: probably
[17:33] <hggdh> you will have to look at the threads, but if there is a deadlock somewhere you will see the wait
[17:34] <hggdh> (of course, discard the segv frames)
[17:40] <micahg> hggdh: ok, I'll try it
[17:42] <ali1234> micahg: my firefox bug?
[17:43] <micahg> ali1234: yep
[17:44] <micahg> ali1234: I just added instructions to the bug
[17:46] <ali1234> don't i have to start some service to get apport dumps if i'm not running a beta?
[17:46] <ali1234> oh yeah you wrote it, sorry
[17:46] <micahg> ali1234: it's in the bug
[17:48] <ali1234> ok, got it
[17:49] <ali1234> The problem cannot be reported because I have obsolete software
[17:50] <micahg> ali1234: ok, so that ususally means you have to upgrade a few packages
[17:50] <ali1234> libgtk2.0-common - but I need this version installed because there are no dbgsyms for 2.1, and i need those for another bug
[17:50] <ali1234> ah whatever, i'll try to upgrade it
[17:50] <micahg> ali1234: no, the upgrade is not to 2.1
[17:51] <ali1234> yeah, you're right, the upgrade is ubuntu1 to ubuntu2
[17:51] <ali1234> however, there's no debug symbols package for -ubuntu2
[17:51] <micahg> 2.18.3-1ubuntu2.1
[17:52] <micahg> ali1234: libgtk2.0-0-dbg
[17:53] <ali1234> yes, when i attempted to install that package the other day i got a message like "depends on =...-ubuntu1 but ...-ubuntu2 is going to be installed"
[17:53] <ali1234> so i had to force version to get it installed
[17:53] <micahg> ali1234: apport retraces the crash server side so you don't need the dbg syms for it, if you need it for yourself, that's another story
[17:54] <ali1234> i needed the debug symbols because somebody asked me to install them in another bug
[17:54] <micahg> ali1234: if you're done with that, you don't need them anymore
[17:55] <ali1234> i'm not
[17:55] <micahg> ok
[17:55] <ali1234> until the bug is closed :)
[17:56] <micahg> ali1234: do you know how to do a manual gdb backtrace?
[17:56] <ali1234> yes
[17:56] <ali1234> but i can already tell you what it's gonna say :)
[17:57] <ali1234> java plugin is causing the freeze
[17:57] <micahg> ali1234: ok, that works too, can you reproduce the freeze and generate a full backtrace?
[17:57] <ali1234> ok retrying apport
[17:57] <micahg> on a clean profile
[17:58] <ali1234> the complete report is 172mb
[17:58] <ali1234> i guess i should send the reduced one?
[17:58] <micahg> wow...either way should be fine
[17:59] <ali1234> well i'll do reduced for now
[17:59] <ali1234> otherwise it wont upload before xmas
[18:00] <ali1234> wow there's loads of bug reports about this already, mine is probably a dupe of one of those...
[18:02] <micahg> :)
[18:02] <ali1234> ok you want me to do a new bug still? i see you;ve already replied to a bunch of these
[18:02] <micahg> ali1234: are any of them triaged?
[18:03] <ali1234> they're all in various states of incomplete, new, or invalid
[18:03] <micahg> ali1234: that generally means that the problem was on the user side in those cases or they're not responding
[18:03] <micahg> you can file a new one
[18:03] <micahg> and we'll try to get to the bottom of it :)
[18:04] <micahg> of apport finds the stacktrace is a dupe, it will mark the bug as such
[18:05] <ali1234> i'll mark my original report a dupe
[18:05] <ali1234> bug 500184
[18:05] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 500184 in firefox-3.5 "firefox freezes on pages with java" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/500184
[18:06] <micahg> ugh, that should be private
[18:06] <micahg> nm
[18:06] <ali1234> why?
[18:07] <micahg> well, usually there's a coredump, but I guess since it's a reduced report, there isn't one
[18:07] <ali1234> yeah, that part was 170MB
[18:07] <hggdh> too many missing symbols
[18:07] <micahg> yeah, I was about to say that :)
[18:08] <ali1234> what's that apport-retrace command again?
[18:08] <hggdh> sudo apport-retrace -o a.file.name /var/crash/crash-whatever
[18:09] <hggdh> it will download & install all dbgsyms needed
[18:09] <hggdh> (as long as you have the ddebs in the sources.list)
[18:09] <ali1234> a.file.name = what?
[18:10] <micahg> hggdh: that's actually really good to know :)
[18:10] <ali1234> nvm got it
[18:11] <hggdh> ali1234: apport-retrace requires an output file
[18:12] <ali1234> yeah, i figured it out. how do i resubmit the resulting regenerated report?
[18:12] <hggdh> ali1234: just upload the GDB output to the bug, micahg will follow up
[18:13] <hggdh> (i.e., run apport-retrace -g)
[18:15] <hggdh> and, of course, tell us. Probably good to run 'thread apply all bt full' and 'bt full' (so that we know the active thread)
[18:15] <ali1234> hmm, i don't think this is working right
[18:16] <ali1234> http://pastebin.com/m1d99a65b
[18:16] <ali1234> (it's still running, but warns about missing packages - i have ddebs with the key imported)
[18:16] <ali1234> oh and now it crashed
[18:17] <ali1234> Exception ImportError: ImportError('No module named shutil',) in <bound method __AptDpkgPackageInfo.__del__ of <apport.packaging_impl.__AptDpkgPackageInfo instance at 0x933c44c>> ignored
[18:17] <hggdh> ali1234: there are many dbgsyms on wrong versions
[18:20] <ali1234> fail
[18:20] <ali1234> the backtrace is still missing almost all symbols
[18:21] <ali1234> great, now i have 12 broken packages on my system too :)
[18:22] <ali1234> firefox-3.5-gnome-support-dbgsym: Depends: firefox-3.5-gnome-support (= 3.5.3+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu6) but 3.5.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> is installed
[18:23] <ali1234> and loads of crap like that
[18:23] <hggdh> ali1234: weird, this is a bug on itself
[18:23] <ali1234> yep
[18:23] <ali1234> same bug i ran into the other day with libgtk
[18:24] <hggdh> this happened of old on apport (it would force-install wrong versins), but it was corrected
[18:24] <hggdh> so it is a regression :-(
[18:24] <ali1234> this happened the other day when i tried to install the libgtk symbols in synaptic
[18:25] <ali1234> basically afaict the ddebs repository is lagging behind the main repo by a few versions
[18:25] <ali1234> so the only way to make it work is to install older versions of everything
[18:25] <hggdh> well, there are two different issues here
[18:25] <hggdh> (1) ddebs lagging behind official versions: expected, this happens
[18:26] <hggdh> (2) force-install of *wrong* dbgsym versions: this should *NOT* happen
[18:26] <ali1234> the thing about (1) is, apport won't submit a report unless you have the newest version of everything, but without the ddebs, it can't submit a useful report
[18:27] <hggdh> I agree, almost a catch-22. But this is contention on finite resources -- the build machines --, and not much we can do on it
[18:28] <hggdh> except wait...
[18:30]  * ali1234 waits
[18:35]  * mac_v kicks the 5-a-day bot!
[18:35] <hggdh> heh
[18:36] <mac_v> the stats havent been updated for nearly a week... almost 1-3 days ,as soon as i joined :(
[18:36] <hggdh> mac_v: you might want to ping bdmurray about it
[18:37] <hggdh> oh, just did it ;-)
[18:37] <mac_v> hehe :D
[20:20] <SantaBUG> Merry xtmas every one
[20:21] <matti> Thanks ;]
[20:24] <SantaBUG> hey matti
[20:25] <micahg> ali1234: I see you found your problem :)
[20:25] <ali1234> yeah
[20:26] <ali1234> i bet there's a few more dupes of this too
[20:27] <micahg> ali1234: you need to be careful with those
[20:27] <micahg> just because someone's having an issue with java, doesn't make it a dupe
[20:27] <micahg> like bug 478263
[20:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 478263 in firefox-3.5 "[KARMIC]Firefox 3.5.4 can't run java applets (dup-of: 484148)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/478263
[20:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 484148 in firefox-3.5 "apparmor-profiles freezes Firefox when using Java applets (Sun JRE)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484148
[20:27] <SantaBUG> micahg: speaking of bugs
[20:27] <SantaBUG> if Sun Java is being left behind
[20:28] <SantaBUG> shouldn't ubuntu-restricted stop pulling it ?
[20:28] <ali1234> micahg: sure, but hopefully they'll read the comment i just wrote on the main bug, and then try the workaround, and then we'll know
[20:28] <micahg> SantaBUG: it hasn't been made official yet
[20:28] <micahg> ali1234: the kern.log shows no apparmor issue with java
[20:28] <ali1234> micahg: but stopping apparmor makes the issue not happen so...
[20:29] <micahg> ali1234: apparmor should NEVER be stopped entirely
[20:29] <ali1234> hah
[20:29] <ali1234> well, fix the bug then, and i won't have to
[20:31] <micahg> ali1234: that's not how it works...you can disable the firefox profile
[20:32] <ali1234> yes, i see "sudo touch /etc/apparmor.d/disable/path.to.bin"
[20:34] <ali1234> i read this too "Since Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic), AppArmor ships with a profile for Firefox which is disabled by default. "
[20:34] <ali1234> i never enabled it so what gives?
[20:34] <ali1234> maybe this is the wrong channel for this type of question
[20:34] <micahg> well, was is enabled?
[20:34] <micahg> there was a bug with earlier FF35 packages that might have enabled it
[20:35] <ali1234> yes, i see messages about firefox and apparmor all the time
[20:35] <micahg> ah, ok, well then, you might indeed have a duplicate
[20:39] <ali1234> bug 489278
[20:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 489278 in apparmor "Apparmor should notify the user when it blocks access" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489278
[20:39] <ali1234> this is the same reason why torrents don't open in transmission any more
[20:39] <ali1234> that's been happening since the day i upgraded to karmic
[20:39] <micahg> there's already a bug for that
[20:39] <ali1234> yep
[20:40] <ali1234> all these bugs are caused because apparmor is turned on
[20:40] <ali1234> that bug ^ mentions torrents, and it just clicked
[20:40] <micahg> bug 476299
[20:40] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 476299 in firefox-3.5 "Firefox apparmor profile does not allow access to transmission" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476299
[20:42] <ali1234> so, looks like all i need to do is disable the profile (which i never enabled) and my firefox will stop sucking
[20:42] <micahg> ali1234: yep
[20:43] <ali1234> so, got a bug for that?
[20:43] <micahg> which one?
[20:43] <micahg> transmission?
[20:43] <ali1234> "there was a bug with earlier FF35 packages that might have enabled it"
[20:43] <ali1234> that one
[20:43] <micahg> idr
[20:44] <ali1234> there's also bug 455792
[20:44] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 455792 in firefox-3.5 "deluge doesn't open .torrent files from firefox while apparmor is on" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455792
[20:45] <ali1234> and a load of others for various plugins and external files
[20:45] <ali1234> but i don't see one about the profile getting enabled
[20:45] <micahg> ali1234: it was only for daily users
[20:45] <micahg> iirc
[20:45] <ali1234> i upgraded this machine to karmic about 4 hours before the final ISO went public
[20:46] <ali1234> and pretty much the first thing i noticed was torrents didn't open automatically any more
[20:46] <micahg> ali1234: daily ff users
[20:46] <ali1234> nope, never used that afaik
[20:46] <micahg> hmmm
[20:46] <hggdh> so, ali1234 -- was your ffox apparmour profile enabled or disabled>
[20:46] <hggdh> ?
[20:47] <ali1234> i'm not 100% sure how i tell
[20:47] <vmos> hi there, I've got a problem with karmic not recognising my mp3 player. I'm pretty sure it's a bug but I have no idea what package is at fault. any suggestions?
[20:47] <ali1234> but i think it is enabled
[20:47] <ali1234> given that i'm suffering from every single bug involved firefox, and having apparmor enabled for it
[20:48] <micahg> ali1234: bug 436221
[20:48] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 436221 in firefox-3.5 "apparmor profile is not disabled on upgrade from jaunty firefox-3.5" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436221
[20:48] <hggdh> ali1234: ps auxZ
[20:49]  * micahg also can't get java to work with apparmor enabled...
[20:49] <ali1234> yeah it's enabled then
[20:50] <ali1234> hmm ok, that bug doesn't tell me how to disable it now it's been erroneously enabled
[20:51] <ali1234> if just updating the package is supposed to do that, then obviously there's been a regression
[20:51] <micahg> ali1234:  I commented in the last bug you posted in about it
[20:51] <micahg> ali1234: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/910overview#New profiles
[20:59] <ali1234> ok, rebooting to get my apparmor back how it's supposed to be
[20:59] <micahg> ali1234: ??
[21:00] <ali1234> i stopped it, remember?
[21:00] <micahg> ali1234: sudo /etc/init.d/apparmor start
[21:00] <ali1234> that doesn't seem to work, now *all* my running processes are "unconfined" except the ones that i started after i restarted apparmor
[21:01] <micahg> oh, yeah, I guess that's a problem
[21:09] <ali1234> right, apparmor profile disabled, ff works properly now
[21:12] <micahg> ali1234: :)
[21:14]  * micahg forgot how much trouble that profile can cause
[21:15] <micahg> on the next ff3.6 update, I'll try to run ff with it enabled so that I can try to find the bugs in advance
[21:21] <micahg> ali1234: BTW, I filed bug #500215 about apparmor not warning people when disabling it entirely
[21:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 500215 in apparmor "apparmor should warn users before allowing itself to be disabled/stopped" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/500215
[21:24] <ali1234> micahg: yeah i saw it when logging in again :)
[21:25] <ali1234> also, is the bug widely known about? i have a feeling a lot of people might be affected by it and no idea what's going on...
[21:25] <ali1234> well, anyone who upgraded on day 1 basically
[21:25] <micahg> ali1234: it shouldn't be affecting too many people
[21:26]  * micahg needs to get an ubuntu blog...
[21:26] <micahg> ali1234: it was fixed a month before release...
[21:27] <ali1234> hmm..... well, must have regressed at some point then
[21:27] <ali1234> although i don't know how
[21:28] <ali1234> my other machine that i was using to test alphas (starting with a fresh install) was not affected, only the one i upgraded from jaunty
[21:31] <micahg> ali1234: do you still have your upgrade logs?
[21:31] <ali1234> i didn't even know they existed
[21:31] <ali1234> where would i find them?
[21:32] <micahg> /var/log/dist-upgrade/
[21:32] <ali1234> 20091029-0819 - so yeah
[21:33] <micahg> ok, so I might ask you for them later, I need to talk with someone about the issue
[21:34] <ali1234> no problem


[05:00] <Kellyni> What do you make of this?
[05:00] <Kellyni> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkZvYglefsU
[05:04] <dax> i think this is not really on-topic for #ubuntu-discuss
[05:08] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:10] <lotuspsychje> the new xenial wallpapers: http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-lts-xenial-xerus-default-wallpapers-revealed-gallery-502692.shtml
[06:26] <Ben64> hmm... i have an ssd in this machine now, just got a replacement
[06:27] <Ben64> 240 -> 500GB.... what's the easiest way to migrate?
[06:27] <Ben64> could dd the whole thing, but then i'd want to move partitions around a little
[06:28] <dax> dd and then do partition manipulation with gparted afterwards?
[06:28] <Ben64> i suppose, but there's got to be a better way
[06:29] <Ben64> make partitions, dd over grub, dd over sdx1, dd over sdx2, fsck?
[06:29] <dax> i usually just put in new drive and restore from backup tbh
[06:29] <dax> how is that easier than what i said
[06:29] <Ben64> well less writes
[06:29] <dax> is there stuff on the source disk other than sdx1 and sdx2
[06:30] <Ben64> nope
[06:30] <dax> how is that less writes :\
[06:30] <Ben64> if i dd'd the whole thing over, then i'd move sdx2 start position, that's like writing sdx2 all over again
[06:30] <dax> oh, you want to make sdx1 bigger
[06:30] <Ben64> yeah
[06:30] <dax> meh, it's not enough writes that i'd care personally
[06:30] <dax> i guess you could if you want
[06:30] <Ben64> i'm the guy who actually fills up the root partition somehow
[06:31] <dax> i just don't have a /home partition so *shrug*
[06:32] <Ben64> oh
[06:32] <Ben64> new ssd is rated for 1 Petabyte of writes
[06:33] <Ben64> yeah, i suppose that's fine
[06:34] <lotuspsychje> Ben64: wich brand did you buy?
[06:35] <Ben64> samsung 850 evo
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> i bought the 850 pro 128gig few days ago :p
[06:36] <Ben64> fancy
[06:36] <lotuspsychje> 94 euro
[06:36] <Ben64> 850 evo 500GB $140
[06:36] <lotuspsychje> neat price
[06:37] <Ben64> yeah, my old 240GB one is going to my mom's computer which i'm going to revive the next couple days
[06:37] <lotuspsychje> also linux, or she on windows?
[06:37] <Ben64> after repeatedly having to fix the windows problems on her computer, ubuntu
[06:38] <lotuspsychje> nicee
[06:38] <Ben64> was working fine till the old 400GB sata drive died
[06:39] <lotuspsychje> Ben64: wich brand died? im always curious
[06:40]  * Ben64 walks over to it
[06:40] <Ben64> ouch, seagate
[06:40] <lotuspsychje> oh oh
[06:40] <Ben64> 4th seagate to die for me in the past year?
[06:40] <lotuspsychje> what the...
[06:40] <Ben64> i have lots of hard drives
[06:40] <lotuspsychje> i never had a dead seagate before weird
[06:40] <Ben64> what really
[06:41] <Ben64> and one folder i didn't back up properly and lost some stuff :(
[06:41] <dax> we stopped buying seagates at work
[06:41] <Ben64> although might be able to hack a fix
[06:41] <dax> apparently all of our seagates died so that lotuspsychje's didn't have to
[06:41] <Ben64> seems like a firmware/board/chip/something problem
[06:42] <lotuspsychje> dax: wich drives your company buys usually then?
[06:42] <dax> WD
[06:42] <Ben64> last two drives i bought were hitachi/hgst now
[06:42] <dax> enterprisy ones, i forget the exact model
[06:42] <lotuspsychje> i had many dead WD before, wd books, and old types wd's under 100gig
[06:43] <Ben64> yeah they seem to go in waves
[06:43] <elky> WD external stuff isn't enterprise
[06:43] <lotuspsychje> thats why i bought the 850 pro, 10 years warranty
[06:43] <Ben64> the problem is spinny drives are just bad
[06:44] <Ben64> but you can't beat that price/GB
[06:44] <dax> yeah, warranties on our WDs are 5 years. so we don't really care if they break
[06:44] <dax> plus we have more hot swaps than we can count so while they're busy overnighting to us we're fine
[06:44] <lotuspsychje> dax: how many gigs are those wd enterprise?
[06:45] <dax> 4TB
[06:45] <lotuspsychje> wows
[06:46] <lotuspsychje> big change against those oldskool wd raptors lol
[06:56] <lotuspsychje> laterz
[08:01] <Ben65> :D 230MB/s dd from ssd1 to ssd2
[09:45] <Ben64> after a little boot-repair for some reason, it works!
[13:06] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:09] <Bashing-om> o/ BluesKaj . Top o' the morn'n to ya .
[13:10] <Bashing-om> !netflix
[13:10] <ubot5`> If you use Netflix, there is an unofficial solution for using it in Ubuntu detailed in http://www.compholio.com/netflix-desktop/ - bug reports in https://bugs.launchpad.net/netflix-desktop
[13:25] <BluesKaj> Hey Bashing-om, how's things oday?
[13:25] <BluesKaj> today even :-)
[13:27] <Bashing-om> Here, and that is a good thing .. considering going back to bed and finish my nap .. that would be a good thing too .
[20:18] <DaniKitten> Hello
[20:20] <DaniKitten> Well, Tell me if this is true or false. My computer with 1 GB RAM runs Ubuntu 12.04. If I change to Lubuntu on April 2017, I will be good. True or false?
[20:20] <DaniKitten> With support
[20:20] <DaniKitten> "Good" means for me "with support"
[20:22] <Bashing-om> DaniKitten: " If I change to Lubuntu on April 2017," 16.04 ?
[20:22] <DaniKitten> The newest version on April 2017
[20:23] <Ben64> the newest version will probably be 17.04, but you'll probably want 16.04
[20:23] <Bashing-om> DaniKitten: Good chance good .. but need to ask that in #ubuntu+1 channel .
[20:23] <DaniKitten> LTS is better
[20:23] <daftykins> nothing will run well on 1GB RAM
[20:24] <DaniKitten> Why
[20:24] <daftykins> because that has been a poor amount of RAM for the last x years
[20:24] <Ben64> 1GB was kind of low 10 years ago
[20:24] <daftykins> *nod*
[20:24] <DaniKitten> I spend a lot of money buying a business 1 GB RAM laptop and someone says that "Nothing run well on 1 GB RAM"
[20:24] <daftykins> it's time to let the mini go
[20:25] <daftykins> a mini is *not* business.
[20:25] <DaniKitten> HP 2140
[20:25] <DaniKitten> Tell me about it
[20:25] <Ben64> oh that's slow
[20:25] <TJ-> depends what you want to do with it; I have perfectly usable Vaio notebooks with 384MB of RAM!
[20:25] <daftykins> that is a very bad netbook
[20:25] <Ben64> you should look to get a better computer by april 2017
[20:26] <DaniKitten> And I don't want a newer computer because some new laptops have compatibility issues with FreeDOS or DOS legacy functions
[20:26] <daftykins> there have been kernel regressions ruining the 945 express chipset for the last 3+ years, i don't think that machine will ever be usable again
[20:26] <daftykins> so keep that one around for DOS only.
[20:27] <DaniKitten> That's hard, because is too good for using only DOS, but is too slow to run modern OS
[20:27] <DaniKitten> 1 GB RAM
[20:27] <daftykins> yep time to retire it
[20:28] <DaniKitten> And was my favorite PC for a big time
[20:28] <DaniKitten> Except if I buy a new 2 GB RAM
[20:28] <DaniKitten> for my laptop
[20:28] <DaniKitten> Most laptops can be upgraded
[20:28] <Ben64> ram isn't the only problem with it
[20:29] <daftykins> no it's old DDR2 so it will be prohibitively expensive, plus as i said the kernel has regressed so the motherboard chipset inside it is now useless
[20:29] <DaniKitten> And the manual says: "The HP Mini 2133 can use from 512 MB to 2 GB RAM. The 2140 Ran use only 1 or 2 GB RAM"
[20:29] <DaniKitten> And the manual says: "The HP Mini 2133 can use from 512 MB to 2 GB RAM. The 2140 can use only 1 or 2 GB RAM"
[20:29] <Ben64> the cpu itself is slower than a pentium 3
[20:30] <DaniKitten> Yeah... the CPU
[20:30] <DaniKitten> My CPU
[20:30] <DaniKitten> the expensive CPU now is trash
[20:30] <Ben64> "expensive"
[20:32] <DaniKitten> About 450 US dollars
[20:33] <Ben64> in 2008?
[20:33] <daftykins> you have enquired about this same system multiple times - and multiple users have given the same advice each time, nobody can in good conscience suggest that keeping that system for Linux use is a wise decision
[20:33] <DaniKitten> That PC is 2008, is a big reason for still having it
[20:34] <daftykins> based on what?
[20:34] <DaniKitten> Someday, will be known as "One of the first laptops being Mini"
[20:34] <DaniKitten> Just think on those PCs with 1 MB RAM or less
[20:34] <daftykins> i disagree, i was supporting ultraportables from Sony for years before netbooks came out
[20:34] <Ben64> netbooks had a tiny window where they were worthwhile. before phones got really good, and before tablets existed
[20:35] <DaniKitten> Now the people spend a lot of money buying too new machines, while I better want to save money... maybe on a laptop
[20:35] <DaniKitten> A 2015 or older laptop because "Older is cheaper"
[20:35] <Ben64> laptops aren't really good choices on saving money
[20:36] <DaniKitten> Yeah
[20:36] <daftykins> however less than $200 US can buy a far more capable system than a netbook
[20:37] <DaniKitten> But, I will buy a laptop, because smartphones aren't IBM PC compatible
[20:44] <DaniKitten> Well, thanks for the info. Bye


[05:36] <mrooney> Hello dear paper cutters, is anyone able to add me as a member of the project? I'm a BugControl and Ubuntu member and am helping out with the triaging but I can't mark as Triaged or set an Importance without being a member or having some sort of affiliation with the project it appears.
[08:23] <SiDi> yay, i managed to get two sync notifications at the same time :|
[08:25] <SiDi> http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7678/capture4n.png
[08:25] <SiDi> MacSlow: do you know if there is a bug report for this case yet ?
[08:26] <MacSlow> SiDi, OMG *sigh*
[08:26] <MacSlow> SiDi, that's new... I can't recall a bug-report stating this
[08:26] <SiDi> I know how to reproduce it though :)
[08:27] <MacSlow> SiDi, yes please do file that on lp against notify-osd (and probably gnome-settings-daemon)
[08:27] <SiDi> I trigerred a sync notification when an async one was fading out already, and then trigerred another sync which went to its free slot
[08:27] <SiDi> Its my own daemon, not g-s-d, though :p
[08:27] <MacSlow> SiDi, if you can deterministically reproduce it even better
[08:28] <MacSlow> SiDi, very often I can reproduce some bugs people report on my own systems.. makes debugging hard
[08:28] <SiDi> can't, you mean ?
[08:28] <MacSlow> yeah can't
[08:28] <MacSlow> still earyl in the morning
[08:28] <SiDi> :D
[08:29] <MacSlow> what I don't understand is that, the new sync. notification is not just replacing the contents of the older sync. one
[08:29] <MacSlow> but created a new bubble
[08:29] <SiDi> btw, is it possible to add some code in notify-osd for xfce panels support ? At the moment it just puts the bubbles in the top-right without checking their height
[08:29] <MacSlow> that's super odd
[08:30] <MacSlow> SiDi, if xfce does advertise it's size like gnome-panel does it should work
[08:31] <SiDi> i'll have a look at the code then and see whats wrong ther
[08:31] <SiDi> +e
[08:31] <MacSlow> one issue atm is the time when *-panel and notify-osd start upon session initialization after a user logged in
[08:32] <MacSlow> if notify-osd gets started before the panel the information about its sizing is lacking an thus notify-osd places bubbles as if no panel was present
[08:32] <SiDi> Oh, that may be a recurrent problem with xfce then. Cause the session is _very_ long to start (fixed upstream though)
[08:35] <SiDi> MacSlow: when you check if there already is a synchronous notification, you check on the top location first, and then on the bottom one ?
[08:59] <MacSlow> hey njpatel
[08:59] <MacSlow> SiDi, gee... do you have a script for this bug?
[08:59] <njpatel> MacSlow: morning dude
[09:00] <MacSlow> SiDi, I can't reproduce this manually or with some of the examples from notify-osd
[09:00]  * njpatel realises there a way too many people here whose name begins with 'ma'
[09:00] <njpatel> MacSlow: thanks for the code, I'll test it out as soon as I can :)
[09:00] <njpatel> MacSlow: and I just realised that it's not code, but api :D
[09:01] <njpatel> that proves that I'm just waking up :)
[09:01] <MacSlow> njpatel, sorry it's taking so long... but well *sigh*
[09:01] <MacSlow> njpatel, sticking to the high standards this time around in the cycle isn't make me work faster
[09:01] <SiDi> MacSlow: i dont have a script :/ But i got it three times manually
[09:01] <njpatel> MacSlow: np, the api should be a drop-in replacement for the current code
[09:02] <SiDi> MacSlow: want me to record it in a vid ?
[09:02] <MacSlow> njpatel, what I presented there is just for internal use in notify-osd mainly... can of course be used else where
[09:02] <njpatel> MacSlow: we need an effects library ;-)
[09:03] <njpatel> with some useful cairo bling in it, maybe eggtimeline too
[09:03] <MacSlow> njpatel, for a proper cairo integration it'll look different... I already have some ideas that should be welcomed by cairo upstream... but then I'll not ahve the time to do the implementation for that :/
[09:08]  * MacSlow a call right now
[09:12] <SiDi> MacSlow: http://filebin.ca/vwfana/out-2.ogv | attaching to my bug report
[09:20] <SiDi> MacSlow: 	if (g_strcmp0 (class_hints.res_name, "gnome-panel"))     goto failed; <- wont be helpful for xfce panels support :|
[10:06] <SiDi> Why do i need Mono to build notify-osd ?
[10:11] <lamalex> because MS wants your soullll
[10:25] <njpatel> SiDi: you don't
[10:30] <SiDi> njpatel: it actually requires mono-gmcs for compiling some of the examples. Which i rm'd afterwards.
[10:31] <njpatel> SiDi: ah right, but there isn't a build-depends on mono
[10:32] <SiDi> nop
[12:49]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[13:07] <popey> if I have a bug to nominate for papercuts, how does one do that?
[13:10] <SiDi> "Also affects project"
[13:10] <SiDi> theres such a link in the launchpad bugs interface
[13:11] <popey> ok, and then what?
[13:11] <SiDi> and then use the search form to find the name of  hundredpapercuts
[13:12] <popey> the UI doesn't make that obvious, i have two fields, 3 radio buttons, none that are search
[13:12] <popey> one asks for a url, the other an email address
[13:12] <popey> ahh, choose other project. thanks!
[18:33] <danrabbit> djsiegel, I've got a papercut for you
[18:50] <mrooney> danrabbit: that sounds kind of like a threat out of context
[18:50] <danrabbit> LOL
[18:51] <danrabbit> Well, I was just doing some icons when I noticed some magic before my eyes
[18:51] <danrabbit> I have long waited for the day when nautilus would use custom icons for some of the default folders in ~/
[18:52] <danrabbit> However
[18:52] <danrabbit> They forgot downloads :(
[18:52] <danrabbit> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/388570


[16:43] <rbasak> Please could someone accept my nomination for a precise task on bug 1085593?
[16:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1085593 in bind9 (Ubuntu) "bind 9.8.1-P1 crashes with an assertion failure" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1085593
[16:44] <TheLordOfTime> did you test quantal too?
[16:44]  * TheLordOfTime can't accept the nomination, but is curious whether it happens in quantal
[16:45] <TheLordOfTime> since i see raring and precise mentioned
[16:45] <micahg> rbasak: I'm reluctant to accept that based on your comments...not sure that'll fly as an SRU
[16:46] <micahg> unless you were planning to cherry pick
[16:46] <rbasak> micahg: which part? Identifying and cherry-picking the fix will, surely?
[16:46] <micahg> yeah, ok, task granted
[16:46] <rbasak> Thank you!
[16:47] <rbasak> I wasn't planning on asking for a micro release exception. I was just explaining that this was the process to answer the reporter's question
[16:47] <micahg> ok
[18:53] <pietro98-albini> hello
[18:53] <pietro98-albini> i don't know how to triage this bug:
[18:53] <pietro98-albini> bug 1086506
[18:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1086506 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network Manager applet wireless connections refresh too slow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1086506
[18:53] <pietro98-albini> it is a bug?
[20:49] <penguin42> hmm - what's the right thing to do with bugs that an update on the current version has stopped booting/killed X, and so they gave up and installed Windows - it seems wrong to mark invalid for a bug where a minor update did that, but there's not much I can do with the bug if they can't get any more debug
[20:53] <penguin42> in this case bug 1085541
[20:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1085541 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Latest updates break X" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1085541
[22:05] <chilicuil> I'd had done the same, it's incomplete IMO penguin42
[23:21] <penguin42> chilicuil: yeh that's what I settled on; I like to try and hang on as much as possible to something that could be a serious bug