[15:43] <mup> Bug #1980092 changed: maas does not discover platform devices (including NICs) <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1980092>
[15:55] <mup> Bug #1980092 opened: maas does not discover platform devices (including NICs) <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1980092>
[15:58] <mup> Bug #1980092 changed: maas does not discover platform devices (including NICs) <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1980092>


[12:17] <gotwig> hello
[12:17] <gotwig> mhall119, jo
[12:17] <gotwig> I now restart working on my cooking lens... also for ubuntu mobile devices
[12:17] <gotwig> I don't know where you can change the actual order of the names and icons with the scopes... its a bit mixed by me
[12:22] <gotwig> so how can I change the order of the scopes
[12:22] <gotwig> so its synchronized with the ordner in my lens?
[12:27] <gotwig> oh
[12:27] <gotwig> its model.append
[12:50] <gotwig> hey... there
[12:50] <gotwig> I think my scope is just not working properly.. hm
[12:51] <gotwig> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5561489/
[13:06] <gotwig> heres my new code
[13:06] <gotwig> anything bad here?
[13:06] <gotwig> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5561529/
[13:06] <gotwig> please mail me, because I am AFK...
[13:07] <gotwig><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:54] <gotwig> hey
[13:54] <gotwig> whats wrong here? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5561529/
[15:45] <gotwig> ricotz, howdy


[12:03] <ajmitch> and..?
[12:03] <ajmitch> we know that the package builds, seeing as it's in main
[12:03] <dooglus> and I see the output I pasted in the bug report
[12:03] <ajmitch> dooglus: why not building the package normally?
[12:03] <ajmitch> instead of running ./configure?
[12:05] <dooglus> ajmitch: what's the normal way to build a package?
[12:05] <ajmitch> dpkg-buildpackage, or using debuild, or pbuilder build..
[12:05] <ajmitch> all of which are equivalent
[12:05] <dooglus> ok.
[12:05] <dooglus> I'll try that.
[12:05] <dooglus> how should I have found those commands without you telling me?
[12:06] <ajmitch> debian NM guide, or asking how you build packages
[12:06] <ajmitch> or various wiki pages like PackagingTips
[12:06] <Unfrgiven> slomo: i can package it from here on. thanks for your help. the plan is to put it into backports and into universe in dapper. can you send me the package sources<EMAIL_ADDRESS>thanks again.
[12:06] <ajmitch> or IntroDeveloperDocs, of course
[12:08] <dooglus> "of course"?
[12:08] <ajmitch> Unfrgiven is the author :)
[12:08] <ajmitch> I could hardly forget his contribution
[12:09] <ajmitch> ok, shadow built perfectly fine in pbuilder as expected :)
[12:10] <dooglus> I was using the traditional configure;make incantation.  I wasn't aware of dpkg-buildpackage
[12:11] <ajmitch> they're packaged for a reason
[12:11] <ajmitch> debian/rules controls how configure, make, etc are called
[12:11] <dooglus> ok.
[12:11] <ajmitch> for shadow, debian/patches/324_configure.in-no-debian-dir.dpatch removed that line from configure
[12:12] <dooglus> oh yes!
[12:13] <ajmitch> there are 134 patches for shadow there :)
[12:14] <dooglus> sometimes when I "apt-get source", patches get applied automatically, and other times (like this time) they don't get applied (presumably until I use dpkg-buildpackage)
[12:15] <ajmitch> when you apt-get source, it applies the diff.gz
[12:15] <ajmitch> which contains the debian/ dir
[12:15] <ajmitch> and often other things
[12:15] <ajmitch> these are build-time patches
[12:15] <ajmitch> makes it a lot easier to keep them separate
[12:16] <dooglus> ok
[12:16] <dooglus> thanks for your help.
[12:16] <ajmitch> no problem
[12:17] <dooglus> did you notice I asked about this in #ubuntu-devel before posting the bug?
[12:20] <ajmitch> no I didn't
[12:20] <ajmitch> how long did you wait before posting?
[12:21] <ajmitch> the only thing I see you asking is if bugs go to malone now
[12:26] <chillywilly> yay, Breezy is released
[12:27] <Kyral> Time to rebuild VLC...
[12:27] <ajmitch> yep
[12:27] <chillywilly> were you guys able to accomplish everyting you wanted to for universe?
[12:28] <chillywilly> erm, for the release
[12:28] <ajmitch> of course not
[12:28] <Kyral> nope, for me at least. I didn't gain MOTU Powah
[12:28] <ajmitch> you didn't help us out :P
[12:28] <ajmitch> Kyral: there was hardly time for you to get up to speed on it
[12:28] <chillywilly> bah
[12:28] <Kyral> Yah I know
[12:28] <Kyral> Twas a pun :P
[12:29] <chillywilly> the archive server is slow
[12:29] <chillywilly> probably gettin hammered
[12:29] <ajmitch> no surprise there
[12:29] <chillywilly> :)
[12:30] <chillywilly> I am doing a sudo apt-get -d dist-upgrade on 2 boxes :)
[12:30] <Kyral> I'm pbuildering libdvbpsi
[12:31] <chillywilly> time to go home
[12:32] <Kyral> why does Sid VLC depend on libdvbpsi and Breezy VLC doesn't?
[12:51] <Kyral> I mean I know I would wind up in SID land....but how major would breakage be...
[02:37] <zul> evening
[02:40] <ajmitch> hi
[03:39] <bmonty> hi everyone
[03:39] <ajmitch> hello bmonty
[03:39] <bmonty> enjoying the break?
[03:40] <Kyral> I'm actually bored ;P
[03:42] <bmonty> ajmitch: so what happens now, does automatic syncing with debian get turned on again?
[03:42] <ajmitch> when dapper reopens
[03:42] <ajmitch> the flood starts
[03:42] <bmonty> does that cause lots of breakage?
[03:42] <ajmitch> oh yes
[03:42] <ajmitch> we could have *lots* of breakage :)
[03:43] <ajmitch> it's fun
[03:43] <bmonty> I'm sure
[03:43] <Kyral> Yanno what would cause more breakage?
[03:43] <Kyral> Breezy -> Sid
[03:43] <ajmitch> Kyral: packages out of sync
[03:44] <Nafallo> ajmitch: btw, what to do when I don't have a dapper-pbuilder to build at? :-)
[03:44] <ajmitch> we have to rush to get our ubuntu changes merged in to minimise the breakage
[03:44] <Kyral> ajmitch, no kiddin' I saw what would happen if I did it ;P
[03:44] <ajmitch> Nafallo: dist-upgrade :P
[03:44] <Nafallo> ajmitch: it's not opened ;-)
[03:44] <ajmitch> Nafallo: then use breezy for now
[03:44] <ajmitch> man..
[03:44] <ajmitch> ;)
[03:45] <bmonty> you have to figure breezy and badger will be very similar for at least a couple weeks :)
[03:45] <LaserJock> hi bmonty, I got my IRC port blocking problem fixed
[03:45] <Kyral> Hot ***!
[03:45] <Kyral> the Servers are back!
[03:45] <ajmitch> bmonty: *cough*
[03:45] <ajmitch> bmonty: breezy & dapper? ;)
[03:45] <Kyral> uhh
[03:45] <Nafallo> so... build the debian packages that will ftbfs because of dbus/libdbus against breezy, dist-upgrade to dapper, rebuild them and then dput :-)
[03:45] <bmonty> ajmitch: yeah...whoops
[03:45] <ajmitch> bmonty: there might be a few thousand packages synced in the first couple of weeks
[03:45] <Kyral> anyone getting a GPG Key error on the Breezy Update server
[03:46] <ajmitch> Nafallo: eh?
[03:46] <bmonty> LaserJock: did the "I need IRC to do my studies" story work? :)
[03:46] <Nafallo> ajmitch: no? :-)
[03:46] <ajmitch> Nafallo: you're only going to upload source anyway, so just do the merges like usual
[03:46] <ajmitch> LaserJock: excellent
[03:46] <bmonty> dapper - badger....sounds the same to me :P
[03:47] <LaserJock> bmonty, no I found out that freenode also has port 8001 which wasn't blocked by my university
[03:47] <ajmitch> LaserJock: hah, nice evasion
[03:47] <bmonty> ahh...hopefully they are complacent and don't notice the traffic :)
[03:47] <ajmitch> LaserJock: they're probably mainly trying to stop botnets & illegal filesharing anyway :)
[03:48] <Nafallo> ajmitch: well, I have to merge and build those libs (that's in debian) so that I can use them for building the other parts that's not in debian :-)
[03:48] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah that's why I knew that they wouldn't open the port for me
[03:48] <ajmitch> Nafallo: or you could just wait a few days & have a break :)
[03:48] <Nafallo> ajmitch: and then merge those when they arrive in dapper so that I can send the rest of them to NEW ;-)
[03:49] <ajmitch> Nafallo: just let them sync, FTBFS, and then fix the source
[03:49] <bmonty> grrr, I'm getting tired of the script kiddies probing my ssh server
[03:49] <ajmitch> Nafallo: plenty of other stuff to work on still until dapper opens
[03:49] <Nafallo> ajmitch: oh? :-)
[03:50] <Nafallo> bmonty: :-)
[03:50] <bmonty> you can help me get OpenLDAP and Kerberos working :)
[03:50] <ajmitch> Nafallo: clean up malone, get fixed packages queued for upload
[03:50] <Nafallo> why?
[03:50] <ajmitch> Nafallo: because the packages are still broken & will be broken after dapper opens :P
[03:50] <Nafallo> new versions will probably be merged or synced for most of it anyway?
[03:51] <ajmitch> most, but not all
[03:51] <ajmitch> we've generally merged in a lot of new upstream versions to fix the more serious bugs
[03:51] <Nafallo> baah, we need an *ubuntu* search for Malone then? :-)
[03:51] <ajmitch> what?
[03:51] <Nafallo> to see what's not going to be synced automatically.
[03:52] <ajmitch> oh right
[03:52] <ajmitch> http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/merge-tool/current/merges
[03:52] <bmonty> ajmitch: do you think the freeze on syncs with debian helps or ends up causing more problems....seems like keeping the syncs on longer would cause less problems
[03:52] <Nafallo> :-)
[03:52] <LaserJock> I assume that synced packages don't override packages that have a *ubuntu version number. Is that right?
[03:52] <ajmitch> bmonty: I think it helps, and we'll enforce it more strictly for dapper
[03:52] <ajmitch> LaserJock: correct
[03:53] <ajmitch> LaserJock: which is why we have > 1200 source packages in breezy with an ubuntu* version
[03:53] <lifeless> bmonty: keeping the syncs on longer, means, 'get more changes'
[03:53] <ajmitch> a lot of them will need manually merged
[03:53] <lifeless> bmonty: which means, if debian do, say, a gcc4 transition in the middle of our freeze, 'break everything later'
[03:53] <tseng> that will be pain
[03:53] <ajmitch> sure
[03:53] <bmonty> lifeless: maybe, but it also seems like the way to fix a lot of FTBFS packages was a sync
[03:53] <ajmitch> and you can have a merge that applies cleanly but is still dead wrong
[03:54] <tseng> i always have that
[03:54] <lifeless> bmonty: yes, but its an explicit choice.
[03:54] <tseng> it does stupid stuff with build-deps
[03:54] <ajmitch> bmonty: getting random crack from unstable later into the release just means less chance to fix the bugs that are introduced
[03:54] <bmonty> lifeless: true, maybe we need a different process for getting the syncs done
[03:54] <ajmitch> bmonty: there will be
[03:54] <ajmitch> but it'll stay essentially the same
[03:54] <bmonty> lol
[03:54] <ajmitch> we freeze for a reason
[03:55] <ajmitch> I think sync requests will be done via launchpad at some point
[03:55] <bmonty> yeah, I'm not saying that the freeze is a bad idea, just that based on what I worked on it seemed the freeze cause a good portion of the issues
[03:56] <ajmitch> bmonty: just think of how many more issues you might have seen without the freeze
[03:56] <ajmitch> we're grabbing from debian *unstable*, it's called that for a reason :)
[03:56] <ajmitch> (and not just because of the developers)
[03:56] <bmonty> ajmitch: for packages in main, I would definately agree...universe, I'm not so sure
[03:56] <bmonty> ajmitch: yeah, when sarge was release I stopped running unstable
[03:57] <ajmitch> bmonty: UVF is essential for universe
[03:57] <ajmitch> I know ogra agrees with me on that
[03:57] <LaserJock> the FTBFS packages I was working on where older than testing, how does that happen? Is it just overlooked?
[03:57] <ajmitch> lifeless: btw, python can't import files with a - in the filename?
[03:57] <lifeless> ajmitch: correct
[03:57] <bmonty> well you guys have more experience with this than me, so I'm sure it is the best choice
[03:58] <lifeless> ajmitch: bzr-man is a script :0
[03:58] <Nafallo> ajmitch: I agree with you to fwiw :-)
[03:58] <ajmitch> lifeless: a script, but most of it is a function :)
[03:58] <LaserJock> bmonty: don't feel bad, I thought the same thing ;-)
[03:58] <lifeless> patches accepted gratefully :)
[03:59] <ajmitch> lifeless: yeah, trying to get the manpage to be generated properly by setup.py :)
[03:59] <Nafallo> anyway, ubuntuIM needs galago :-)
[03:59] <bmonty> LaserJock: I'm not really arguing the point...just trying to figure out more about why the freeze was done
[03:59] <ajmitch> Nafallo: mini-dinstall? :)
[04:00] <Nafallo> ajmitch: nope, main only :-)
[04:00] <bmonty> I got mini-dinstall working on my web server...it is very nice :)
[04:00] <Nafallo> post_upload_command = ssh ogre "cd public_html/packages && rm *.changes; apt-ftparchive packages . | gzip > Packages.gz && apt-ftparchive sources . | gzip > Sources.gz"
[04:00] <Nafallo> :-)
[04:00] <bmonty> Nafallo: you can do the same thing with mini-dinstall
[04:01] <Nafallo> bmonty: that's not in main :-)
[04:01] <Nafallo> I ONLY use main on my server :-)
[04:01] <bmonty> ah
[04:01] <tseng> you just need to get back to doing universe-security
[04:01] <tseng> slacker
[04:01] <ajmitch> yes
[04:01] <bmonty> I run debian on my servers, so I didn't notice
[04:02] <Nafallo> hehe :-)
[04:02] <ajmitch> we now unofficially support breezy only for universe security
[04:02] <LaserJock> I started learning packaging with pbuilder and mini-dinstall. I think it has really helped me learn.
[04:02] <Nafallo> but but but... MOTU(IM) is more fun ;-)
[04:02] <ajmitch> unless people still want to do hoary fixes :)
[04:02] <ajmitch> Nafallo: too bad, get fixing
[04:02] <bmonty> LaserJock: less opportunity to mess up your system :)
[04:02] <tseng> yeah
[04:02] <ajmitch> MOTU work isn't about fun
[04:02] <ajmitch> it's about getting whipped into doing stuff ;)
[04:03] <Nafallo> I know. I was just tired about feeling like the only one. and I'm still rather new to programming so... :-P
[04:03] <ajmitch> Nafallo: recruit more
[04:03] <tseng> yes
[04:03] <ajmitch> Nafallo: I was wanting to help out, but it wasn't fun enough
[04:03] <tseng> you need to find some real suckers
[04:04] <ajmitch> bmonty: I was not going to say that ;)
[04:04] <bmonty> oh darn, he isn't on
[04:04] <Nafallo> I know it's not fun... that's why I ended up with half-finished stuff all over the place...
[04:04] <bmonty> I need to get my code for the ubuntu-spy working
[04:04] <bmonty> and packaged
[04:04] <ajmitch> 6 months is a lot shorter than you think :)
[04:04] <ajmitch> so get it done ASAP
[04:05] <ajmitch> putting it off won't work
[04:05] <ajmitch> well the feature demands are rolling in on the forum for dapper
[04:06] <Nafallo> anyway, if everyone does there share on universe security, then it will be easier to do stuff there.
[04:06] <ajmitch> yep
[04:06] <bmonty> Nafallo: how does universe security work?
[04:06] <ajmitch> bmonty: you fix stuff
[04:06] <bmonty> based on what?
[04:06] <ajmitch> pretty much the same as MOTU work really
[04:07] <ajmitch> basically grabbing patches
[04:07] <Nafallo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
[04:07] <ajmitch> and applying them to the current source :)
[04:07] <Nafallo> basically like that
[04:07] <bmonty> I think I can do that :)
[04:08] <Nafallo> patch the stuff minimally to let it not be insecure, send it do the mailing-list, get pitti to like it (hard ;-)) and then do the upload/have someone do the upload :-).
[04:08] <ajmitch> security-review list has been very quiet lately
[04:08] <Nafallo> well, there have been LOTS of stuff todo in breezy
[04:09] <Nafallo> so I'm not surprised...
[04:09] <ajmitch> yes
[04:09] <ajmitch> bbiab
[04:10] <bmonty> Nafallo: count me in
[04:11] <Nafallo> bmonty: :-)
[04:11] <Nafallo> I'm hoping to count everyone in :-)
[04:11] <bmonty> are you going to post vulnerabilities that require a fix, and then assign people to work the package, or do people just work on things they find?
[04:12] <Nafallo> security is just like regular release-cycle. you can't be an expert on everything :-).
[04:12] <Nafallo> we have a tool for that :-)
[04:12] <Nafallo> I just have to find it... :-P
[04:13] <Nafallo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/
[04:14] <bmonty> hmm...lots for mozilla
[04:14] <Nafallo> if upstream (!debian) made a hoary-package-1, which I'm merging, should I use 1ubuntu1 or 0ubuntu1?
[04:15] <bmonty> 1ubuntu0.1?
[04:15] <bmonty> I think that is what the wiki page says
[04:15] <Nafallo> it's not security :-)
[04:15] <bmonty> oh, my bad
[04:15] <Nafallo> it's dapper :-)
[04:20] <ajmitch> Nafallo: it has to be greater than any existing package, but they should be beaten for versioning it like that
[04:20] <Nafallo> ajmitch: oki, thanx
[04:20] <ajmitch> Nafallo: is it in debian yet, and if not, why not? :)
[04:20] <ajmitch> since the simple way might be to get it into sid quickly
[04:21] <Nafallo> ajmitch: I don't know :-). Christian Hammond packaged it for hoary.
[04:21] <Nafallo> it's not in any dist, I found it on the homepage...
[04:21] <Nafallo> packaged as native :-P
[04:22] <ajmitch> ah right
[04:22] <ajmitch> what is it?
[04:22] <Nafallo> http://www.galago-project.org/
[04:23] <ajmitch> what package, I mean
[04:23] <ajmitch> some packages are in debian
[04:23] <Nafallo> all of them :-P
[04:23] <ajmitch>  libgalago  (0.3.3-1) unstable; urgency=low
[04:24] <ajmitch>    * Packaged for Debian, based on upstream work. (closes: #330023 )
[04:24] <ajmitch>  -- Riccardo Setti<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Sun, 25 Sep 2005 12:51:22 +0200
[04:24] <Nafallo> yea, I merged that lib from debian :-)
[04:24] <ajmitch> ok
[04:24] <ajmitch> so that's hardly 'all of them' then
[04:25] <Nafallo> well, I'm taking what's not in debian from upstream's repo ;-)
[04:25] <Nafallo> (found under download)
[04:25] <ajmitch> right
[04:25] <ajmitch> which is what I was asking about - what's not in debian? :P
[04:26] <Nafallo> gnome-preferences-applet, eds-feed for instance
[04:27] <Nafallo> missing the gtk libs to.
[04:27] <Nafallo> galago-sharp and libgalago IS in debian :-)
[04:31] <ajmitch> Nafallo: you could work with the libgalago debian maintainer to get them in
[04:31] <Nafallo> ajmitch: yea, I'll just build them first :-)
[04:31] <Nafallo> hmm, maybe he's doing that to...
[04:32] <Nafallo> I'll mail him tomorrow after a good nights sleep ;-)
[04:32] <Nafallo> it's 4:32 here :-)
[04:32] <ajmitch> ok
[04:32] <ajmitch> sleep well :)
[04:32] <Nafallo> ouch! eds-feed hates me :-P
[04:33] <ajmitch> slomo_: will try & check these in the weekend, for general packaging, and then test them next week..
[04:33] <Nafallo> hmm, gcc-errors here we come! :-)
[04:47] <bmonty> night all
[04:50] <LaserJock> gnight bmonty
[04:56] <Kyral> My Goal for the Dapper Release Cycle: Gain my "MOTU License" ;P
[04:57] <Kyral> but not tonight
[04:57] <Amaranth> My Goal for the Dapper Release Cycle: smeg-gnome, smeg-kde
[04:57] <Amaranth> but not for a month or so ;)
[05:01] <Kyral> well my ultimate Goal for Dapper is to become an Ubuntu Member
[05:01] <Diablo-D3> My Goal for the Dapper Release Cycle: being the cynical bastard I usually am
[05:01] <Kyral> becoming a MOTU is just a step on the path :D
[05:01] <Nafallo> wow
[05:01] <Nafallo> the damn package actually build-deps cvs
[05:02] <Kyral> Anywya, Family Guy calls
[05:09] <bddebian> Damn, everyone wore out from Breezy?? :-)
[05:09] <Diablo-D3> bddebian: yeah, its like some sort of climax
[05:13] <LaserJock> well, I am still trying to fix my bug >;-(
[05:13] <bddebian> Your bug?
[05:14] <LaserJock> # 3112
[05:14] <Nafallo> bddebian: I'm still building packages for it ;-
[05:14] <Nafallo> ;-)
[05:15] <bddebian> Nafallo: Heh
[05:15] <bddebian> LaserJock: Oh the one you submitted? :-)
[05:15] <LaserJock> yeah, you know to get my 0 karma back ;-)
[05:16] <bddebian> heh
[05:18] <LaserJock> apparently I suck at bugfixing >:-(
[05:19] <bddebian> Heh, me too and look at my karma ;-P
[05:19] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[05:20] <ajmitch> hello sir
[05:20] <Yagisan> G'day ajmitch
[05:21] <ajmitch> bddebian: so you've got universe in shape for dapper release?
[05:22] <bddebian> Should be done by tomorrow ;-P
[05:22] <ajmitch> great
[05:22] <LaserJock> what, man you are slacking ;-P
[05:22] <ajmitch> man the MOTU are going to have an easy time of it in dapper
[05:22] <Amaranth> this round of MoM is going to suck
[05:22] <ajmitch> Amaranth: aye
[05:22] <ajmitch> Amaranth: it's going to be fun though
[05:22] <ajmitch> we should have it done in a couple of weeks :)
[05:23] <ajmitch> and then the constant re-merging until UVF
[05:24] <Yagisan> so - that means I should start launching all my security stuff at revu then ajmitch ?
[05:24] <Diablo-D3> Ugh, I'm having an argument with someone
[05:24] <Diablo-D3> does ubuntu's default kernel have pre-empt and low latency?
[05:25] <ajmitch> Yagisan: such as?
[05:25] <Yagisan> Diablo-D3: No
[05:25] <Diablo-D3> Suck.
[05:25] <Diablo-D3> And I loose the argument.
[05:26] <Yagisan> ajmitch - sec tools, modified kernels
[05:26] <ajmitch> Yagisan: sure, might as well start
[05:26] <ajmitch> best to get as much time in the archive as we can get
[05:26] <ajmitch> more exposure == more testing
[05:27] <Yagisan> ajmitch: sure - I asked in #u-k yesterday - they will go with .14 so I base the kernel stuff off that when it's out
[05:28] <ajmitch> that's what I'd have expected
[05:28] <Yagisan> ajmitch: so it should be "easier" to keep in sync (I just steal their patches)
[05:29] <Yagisan> ajmitch - pax has experimental patches for .14 which is nice , and with rsbac you can control which flags are applied
[05:29] <Yagisan> to different apps - without things like chpax
[05:29] <ajmitch> how close is .14?
[05:30] <ajmitch> hm, rc4
[05:30] <ajmitch> looks like it'll be there soon
[05:30] <Nafallo> and ehm, will it build with gcc-4? :-)
[05:30] <Yagisan> ajmitch - who knows - It'll be done when it's done
[05:30] <ajmitch> Nafallo: no idea
[05:31] <ajmitch> anyway, I've got to head away for the weekend
[05:31] <ajmitch> I might be online, if not I'll see you in a couple of days ;)
[05:31] <Amaranth> i thought 2.6.12 built with gcc4, it just sucked
[05:31] <Yagisan> ajmitch: lucky you - I have to do boring admin work this weekend
[05:32] <Yagisan> Amaranth: last time I checked - not everything in the kernel would build on gcc4
[05:32] <crimsun> that's why it's built with 3.4, actually
[05:33] <Nafallo> yea, but I was kind of hoping we didn't need the patch every kernel-module-source :-P
[05:34] <Nafallo> s/the/to/
[05:35] <Yagisan> as long as any patches we do apply to mains kernel - they won't get too pissed with different kernels in universe will they ?
[05:35] <Yagisan> as I recall - they didn't like a .11 kernel in universe
[05:35] <Amaranth> that wasn't 2.6.11
[05:35] <Amaranth> it was a bitkeeper snapshot
[05:35] <Yagisan> Amaranth: a broken bitkeeper snapshot at that
[05:36] <Amaranth> but it couldn't be removed and people were using it, that's why they didn't like it
[05:37] <Nafallo> well, wasn't it fabbione that brought it in? :-)
[05:37] <Yagisan> so, when do we see ubuntu/kfreebsd :) (I see it in universe)
[05:38] <bddebian> kfreebsd bah.  Hurd baby ;-P
[05:38] <Nafallo> not before someone will put energy on it atleast...
[05:38] <crimsun> Yagisan: there should only be one kernel in the repo at all.
[05:39] <crimsun> the kernel in main is and will remain the one kernel to rule them all.
[05:39] <Yagisan> crimsun: one size does not fit all
[05:39] <Nafallo> crimsun: ehm, XEN? :-)
[05:39] <crimsun> Nafallo: we have separate Xen linux-images in main in Breezy?
[05:40] <Nafallo> crimsun: it was not done for breezy, so no :-)
[05:40] <crimsun> well then.
[05:40] <Nafallo> or rather, that bounty was deferred.
[05:41] <Nafallo> not completed in time.
[05:41] <Nafallo> should be completed for dapper I think though...
[05:41] <crimsun> Xen's more of a hypervisor than a kernel.
[05:41] <Yagisan> I'd say xen is more of it's own OS, then can run linux
[05:42] <Yagisan> s/then/that
[05:42] <Nafallo> ehm, still need special kernels, right?
[05:42] <Yagisan> yes it does - it needs to be the Dom) kernel
[05:42] <Yagisan> Dom0
[05:42] <Yagisan> and you need to build the guest kernels as DomU
[05:42] <crimsun> Nafallo: fabbione has that code merged into the source. Whether it's in Breezy is another story.
[05:43] <crimsun> you can grep ubuntu-kernel logs for his remarks getting Xen working with linux-source
[05:43] <crimsun> a couple months ago?
[05:44] <crimsun> (and yes, that bounty is quite sweet)
[05:44] <Nafallo> well, the bounty owner seems to have made stuff a diffrent way then...
[05:44] <Nafallo> http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-users/2005-08/msg00765.html
[05:44] <LaserJock> doh, I just found my bug wasn't really a bug. Dang it. How do you close a bug on launchpad?
[05:45] <crimsun> Nafallo: yes, I know about that.
[05:46] <crimsun> it will still be ridiculous to have more than one linux-image
[05:47] <crimsun> not sure how you would do anything with Xen if you didn't have a linux-image anyhow
[05:48] <Nafallo> anyway
[05:48] <Yagisan> crimsun: why is it ridiculous to have more then one linux-image ?
[05:49] <Nafallo> local time is 05:48. time to hit bed :-P
[05:49] <Nafallo> gnight all
[05:49] <Yagisan> Goodnight Nafallo
[05:49] <crimsun> Yagisan: ok, correction. More than one linux-source.
[05:50] <LaserJock> who can close a bug on launchpad?
[05:50] <Yagisan> crimsun: I think that for some cases - it is needed
[05:50] <crimsun> Yagisan: um...why?
[05:50] <crimsun> Yagisan: there're already kernel-patch-foo...
[05:51] <Yagisan> crimsun: well for starters - my servers would need a linux-source-(a_security_technology_here)
[05:51] <crimsun> keep in mind the kernel team would have to support all these different incarnations of linux-source-foo :(
[05:51] <Yagisan> crimsun
[05:51] <Yagisan> not for universe
[05:52] <Yagisan> crimsun: eg I know ajmitch is doing some selinux stuff, I'm looking at pax+rsbac
[05:52] <crimsun> Yagisan: why wouldn't {kernel,linux}-a_security_technology_here-patch package be more appropriate?
[05:53] <Yagisan> crimsun: show me how to integrate that into the automated build system - and I'll give it a try
[05:53] <crimsun> do you intend to install using the base linux-image-386, enable universe, install linux-image-a_security_technology_here-$arch, and reboot?
[05:54] <Yagisan> crimsun: for now yes
[05:54] <crimsun> "for now"?
[05:54] <Yagisan> crimsun but for dapper +1 no
[05:54] <crimsun> oh dear
[05:54] <crimsun> so you _do_ want the kernel team to support it in dapper+1?
[05:55] <Yagisan> crimsun: no - I want the install cd to download it on install - if I selected it
[05:55] <crimsun> that still makes less sense than integrating the patch into the base linux-source
[05:56] <crimsun> I'm more than happy to help
[05:57] <Yagisan> crimsun: I think we may be misunderstanding each other a bit
[05:58] <Yagisan> crimsun:(13:28:18) Yagisan: ajmitch: sure - I asked in #u-k yesterday - they will go with .14 so I base the kernel stuff off that when it's out
[05:58] <crimsun> right.
[05:59] <crimsun> I certainly hope the goal is to integrate it into linux-source.
[05:59] <crimsun> Of course that's up for discussion at UBZ.
[05:59] <bddebian> Later crimsun
[05:59] <Yagisan> crimsun: I you can show me how to integrate kernel-patch-foo into the build for kernel-source I'd be happy
[05:59] <Yagisan> to test it that way
[05:59] <Yagisan> See you crimsun
[06:01] <Kyral> Good night
[06:09] <LaserJock> bddebian: I found out that the bug I just filed today is not really a bug after all, what do I do with it? I feel really retarded :$
[06:10] <bddebian> Reject it?
[06:10] <LaserJock> how ?
[06:12] <bddebian> Did you file it on bugzilla or Malone?
[06:12] <LaserJock> Malone
[06:12] <LaserJock>  Bug #3112
[06:12] <bddebian> Click on the name of the package and change the status to Rejected
[06:12] <LaserJock> dohh, thanks
[06:13] <bddebian> NP
[06:13] <LaserJock> is it possible to edit comments on Malone?
[06:15] <bddebian> I think only if you made them but I don't know for sure
[06:16] <LaserJock> I can't even seem to do that
[06:16] <LaserJock> Launchpad seems nice, but I am struggling a little bit. I need some documentation or something. I think I must be pretty dense
[06:17] <LaserJock> I was just getting used to wiki's ;-)
[06:19] <bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
[06:34] <bddebian> Well gnight folks
[06:34] <tritium> good night, bddebian
[06:34] <LaserJock> dang, that was fast
[07:08] <crimsun> Yagisan: sure, let's go over that later. Have to catch up with a lot of stuff atm.
[07:09] <tritium> hi crimsun
[07:09] <crimsun> hi tritium
[08:27] <\sh> good morning castle greyskull
[08:43] <pef> hello !
[09:17] <kYotiK> hi all
[09:17] <crimsun> the topic should get you started, kYotiK.
[09:23] <kYotiK> thanks crimsun
[09:23] <crimsun> np
[10:15] <dholbach> hellas
[10:16] <\sh> moins :)
[10:16] <dholbach> hi stephan
[10:34] <siretart> morning
[10:34] <\sh> hey siretart
[10:36] <dholbach> morning reinhard
[10:36] <dholbach> how are you?
[10:36] <dholbach> when is your exam again?
[10:36] <dholbach> was it already?
[10:36] <siretart> it was yesterday. finally finished that stuff! :)
[10:37] <dholbach> how was it?
[10:37] <siretart> I would say okay: 1.7 :)
[10:37] <dholbach> ROCK ON!
[10:37] <dholbach> i knew you'd make it :)
[10:38] <siretart> thanks :)
[10:39] <siretart> how are things in MOTU Land?
[10:39] <dholbach> currently quite quiet :)
[10:40] <siretart> ah, time to work on revu, then *g*
[10:40] <dholbach> yeah, or triage bugs :)
[10:41] <crimsun> I'm starting the multiverse security hunt
[10:41] <crimsun> mplayer's first on the list ;/
[10:41] <dholbach> poor daniel
[10:41] <crimsun> oh no, it'll be better than vlc! :-)
[10:41] <dredg> um
[10:42] <dredg> that sentence no english or thing
[10:42] <slomo_> crimsun: what security bug in mplayer? i fixed one a few weeks before release
[10:42] <dholbach> "... in the face"
[10:42] <dholbach> hey slomo
[10:42] <crimsun> slomo_: oh, you nabbed that one already? excellent!
[10:42] <dredg> yes dammit, IN THE FACE
[10:42] <dholbach> :)
[10:43] <slomo_> crimsun: when it's the pcm-one... yes ;)
[10:43] <slomo_> hi dholbach :)
[10:43] <dholbach> how are you all?
[10:43] <slomo_> tired... and i need to be in train for the next 5 hours ;)
[10:43] <crimsun> I should sleep, but I need to queue a TODO
[10:44] <dholbach> slomo_: going where?
[10:44] <dredg> tired. and resolving to spend some time working on ubuntu for the enterprise.
[10:44] <dholbach> crimsun: how late is it at your place again?
[10:44] <slomo_> dholbach: mannheim... visiting a friend over the weekend
[10:44] <crimsun> dholbach: 4:45 AM
[10:44] <dholbach> ouch
[10:44] <dholbach> slomo_: i'd love to go to mannheim again
[10:44] <dholbach> slomo_: you know where that friend of yours lives?
[10:46] <dredg> actually, extending oem-config to automatically install and configure a system automagically would be good. i'll think about that next week
[10:47] <siretart> dredg: sounds like d-i preseeding
[10:47] <slomo_> dholbach: not exactly in mannheim but in bad drkheim... i think this is how it was called ;) but he takes me from the mannheim hbf so i don't need to know anything ;)
[10:47] <dredg> siretart: yeah, but i'd like options like "switch off automatically adding security.ubuntu.com to sources.list"
[10:48] <dholbach> i see :)
[10:48] <siretart> dredg: this is all preseedable..
[10:48] <dholbach> slomo_: i lived in mannheim for quite a while
[10:48] <slomo_> ok... need to leave ;) see you again on monday =)
[10:50] <dredg> i also really need to beat the person in here who wrote some of the scripts
[10:53] <dholbach> dredg: beat who?
[10:53] <dholbach> hey koke, hjow are you?
[10:53] <koke> hi all!
[10:54] <koke> dholbach: fine, thanks. I think I'll be at UBZ :D
[10:54] <dredg> dholbach: the guy currently working on creating a supported ubuntu in here is completely unfamiliar with debian/ubuntu
[10:54] <dholbach> ROCK
[10:54] <dholbach> ah ok, dredg - i thought you were talking about #ubuntu-motu :)
[10:54] <dredg> dholbach: while he's done a fantastic job (really, he has), some of the methods used to get things working smell of redhat hackery
[10:54] <dholbach> haha :)
[10:54] <koke> the company I work for wants to establish some relations with canonical, so they'll pay my flight :)
[10:54] <dredg> oh sorry, by 'in here' i meant literally 'in these offices'
[10:55] <dholbach> dredg: yeah :)
[10:55] <dholbach> koke: wow cool - what company is it?
[10:55] <dredg> my bad, no offence intended towards anyone in -motu
[10:55] <koke> warp networks http://warp.es/en
[10:55] <dholbach> dredg: don't worry, we're no sissies
[10:56] <dredg> yeah, some of our guys will be at UBZ
[10:56] <dredg> i'll be on training for the next month so i can't make it
[10:56] <dholbach> koke: WAY cool
[10:58] <dredg> i should make the dapper+1 conference though.
[10:58] <dredg> hmm
[10:58] <dredg> might try to convince my boss to send me to ubz
[10:58] <dredg> doubt it will happen though
[10:58] <\sh> redhat hackery?
[10:58] <dholbach> dredg: yeah, talk to him
[11:00] <dredg> dholbach: unlikely. they're already sending me to california for a month for training.
[11:01] <Treenaks> dredg: isn't Montreal _between_ you can California? :)
[11:02] <dredg> Treenaks: it is now. from sunday it won't be :)
[11:02] <dredg> \sh: evil shell scripts designed to do something that can be done entirely without them
[11:05] <dredg> anyway, friday is breakfast-in-the-form-of-assorted-pastries-day
[11:05] <\sh> dredg: hmm...this is not only redhat style ;)
[11:05] <mbreit> good morning
[11:05] <\sh> moin moin mbreit
[11:06] <dredg> \sh: agreed, but since the previous supported linux distribution is a very heavily hacked redhat, i tend to blame it for all my problems at the moment :)
[11:06] <\sh> dredg: believe me, suse is much more worse ,)
[11:07] <Treenaks> \sh: I believe you
[11:07] <Treenaks> (well, SuSE 10 is better than 9, because it has gnome 2.12)
[11:07] <dredg> i hate suse. lots.
[11:07] <dredg> mainly because of the evil evil evil evil way it used to deal with network cards
[11:07] <dredg> dunno if it still does it
[11:08] <Treenaks> dredg: I think it still does
[11:08] <dredg> but wireless cards in particular were handled in an insane manner
[11:08] <Treenaks> dredg: or at least, it's still evil.. dunno if it's the same evil
[11:09] <dredg> Treenaks: the verdict is the same. kill it in the face :)
[11:09] <Treenaks> dredg: then my boss will punch me in the face
[11:09] <Treenaks> dredg: he makes me do i
[11:09] <Treenaks> t
[11:10] <dredg> Treenaks: you need a new boss.... :)
[11:10] <Treenaks> dredg: working on that
[11:10] <dredg> Treenaks: google are hiring ;)
[01:12] <Tonio-> morning everyone
[01:24] <ssam> am i right in thinkthing that firefox 1.5 and kernel 2.6.13 will be put in the universe? like openoffice2 was in hoary. i am sure i heard this discussed a few months ago. is this now more of a backports type thing?
[01:29] <Yagisan> ssam: dapper will use a .14 kernel, so no point for .13 in universe
[02:19] <TMM> Yagisan, might even be a .15 kernel, who knows? :)
[02:21] <Yagisan> TMM: I asked BenC yesterday and was told .14, but yeah or if they are quick a .16 :)
[02:21] <TMM> these days you never know :)
[02:21] <TMM> is dapper open?
[02:22] <ogra> i doubt there will be any kernel image in universe in any future release... the 2.6.11 snapshot in hoary caused to much confusion
[02:22] <ogra> TMM, tuesday
[02:22] <Yagisan> TMM: I see that BenC has already started on .14, dapper opens tuesday
[02:22] <Yagisan> ogra: some of use security types are going to try for some kernels in universe
[02:23] <dholbach> Yagisan: who?
[02:23] <Yagisan> dholbach: I want something in there - but based of mains kernel + patches
[02:23] <dholbach> hrm
[02:23] <\sh> Yagisan: no ways...I do not want to be responsible for any kernel related stuff
[02:24] <ogra> Yagisan, but that will be usable images i guess... the 2.6.11 snapshot was a very early bitkeeper snaphot that broke many systems because people didnt get that it wanst intended for usage
[02:24] <Yagisan> dholbach: if it fails to make the grade - then so be it, but I have a need for it, and it is avaiable for whoever else needs it
[02:24] <\sh> even if the universe is "unsupported" the people are judging ubuntu/kubuntu for the quality, and if something goes wrong with a kernel...no
[02:25] <spacey_ki> i would like to whine about broken scim packages in breezy, quite nasty to have no chinese input support in breezy
[02:25] <spacey_ki> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/scim/+bug/2565
[02:25] <spacey_ki> bug filed long ago
[02:25] <Yagisan> \sh: that's because the universe package was too far removed from mains
[02:25] <ogra> Yagisan, i know there are other kernel related prjects that also want their images in universe... low latency audio stuff for example
[02:26] <spacey_ki> who should i whine to about this?
[02:26] <ogra> spacey_ki, just whine to the world ...
[02:26] <spacey_ki> ogra, :P
[02:26] <ogra> spacey_ki, the archives are locked currently...
[02:26] <\sh> Yagisan: no...not a single kernel should be in universe...never...module yes, fitting for the latest main kernel, ok, but not a kernel itself with patches which we can't test
[02:27] <ogra> \sh, wont work...
[02:27] <spacey_ki> ogra, currently means for a little while?
[02:27] <\sh> ogra: put it on the list for motu meeting and ubz ;)
[02:27] <dholbach> spacey_ki: if you have a patch to make it work, we might consider it for a breezy-updates uploade
[02:27] <Yagisan> \sh: that makes proactive security work moot then
[02:28] <spacey_ki> dholbach, ok, that will be in november then
[02:28] <\sh> dholbach: are we able to use breezy-updates?
[02:28] <spacey_ki> maybe you should switch the bug to WON'T FIX or something :P
[02:28] <dholbach> \sh: with approval, yes
[02:29] <ogra> we'll have universe kernels ... hardened needs to patch directly, low latency needs to be in the tree, not as a module etc
[02:29] <ogra> \sh, i dont want to play with kernel stuff...
[02:29] <ogra> but there is a need for universe kernels...
[02:29] <ogra> spacey_ki, the regular archives repoen on tuesday for dapper
[02:29] <ogra> *reopen
[02:30] <Yagisan> \sh: I won't submit any kernel to universe that is not mains kernel + proactive security patches
[02:30] <spacey_ki> i think we need a breezy-updates ;p
[02:30] <Yagisan> \sh: I don't want to see broken kernels in breezy either
[02:30] <Yagisan> s/breezy/dapper
[02:31] <\sh> Yagisan: what means "proactive security patches"...if there is a need for more security, it should go into main line...
[02:31] <Yagisan> \sh: main line won't take competing patches
[02:31] <\sh> we ca provide packages for other stuff, which uses linux-kernel source and patch methods for the kernel in main line...so the user who needs the stuff can build the kernel themselfs.
[02:32] <Yagisan> \sh: that is no change from now - it makes it a pain in the arse for users
[02:33] <Yagisan> \sh: and makes that proactive security bof at UDU a waste of time (from my point of view)
[02:34] <Yagisan> \sh: can we integrate linux-patch-foo packages into the linux-sources build systems ?
[02:34] <\sh> Yagisan: think about this: how many users (normal ubuntu users) are in need of a different kernel? and how many users are needing hardened server kernels, when running a laptop or a plain desktop? the ammount of users who are using specialized kernels are less and those users are called "admins"..and those admins are working for "DCs" and they know what they're doing...I don't think we should focus on strange kernel configs in universe.
[02:35] <dholbach> i think this shoud be discussed in #ubuntu-kernel
[02:35] <\sh> Yagisan: possible ... we have to see and learn ;)
[02:35] <Yagisan> \sh: how many needless kernel security updates did we need - that could have been avoided with such a patch
[02:36] <dholbach> there might be a need for that, but it has implication which shouldnt just be discussed over here
[02:37] <Yagisan> dholbach: I wanted to discuss this here, to gauge interest/support for initial work
[02:37] <Yagisan> dholbach: so I could make a case to main for dapper + 1 secure by default installs
[02:37] <dholbach> Yagisan: a wiki page and an announcement of the proposal would be better, i guess
[02:39] <Yagisan> dholbach: I'm just following the requests made of me at UDU. Couldn't do it for breezy.
[02:39] <\sh> dholbach: I'll put this as point on motumeeting page...I would like to see benc or fabbione with us in this discussion
[02:39] <dholbach> *nod*
[02:40] <dholbach> \sh: and elmo and the buildd admins for another bunch of kernel packages :)
[02:40] <\sh> dholbach: I think one of the kernel guys should be enough.the rest is only formal ;)
[02:41] <ogra> \sh, dholbach they already gave their statements on the -devel ML when the audio discussio was up...
[02:41] <dholbach> hm
[02:41] <ogra> even mdz did
[02:44] <\sh> ogra: subject was?
[02:44] <Yagisan> If it is technically possible to have linux-source-x.y.z pull in kernel-patch-foo and build -foo kernels, I'll just make a kernel-patch-foo package
[02:44] <Yagisan> that keeps kernels out of universe
[02:45] <\sh> Yagisan: the other way around sounds a bit better...+
[02:45] <\sh> kernel-patch-foo pulls in linux-source  ;)
[02:46] <Yagisan> \sh: as long as it builds kernels for the users that can be installed as aptitude install kernel-foo I'm happy
[02:47] <Yagisan> \sh: I use them, and my customers would use them
[02:47] <\sh> Yagisan: well...then we should think about it in this way: OEM installs require OEM repositories...e.g.
[02:48] <\sh> anyone is reading jdubs release management ideas?
[02:49] <Yagisan> \sh: link please
[02:50] <\sh> Yagisan: Message-ID<EMAIL_ADDRESS><- I'm reading per mail client :(
[02:50] <dholbach> it might be prudent to form a libofx taskforce now? :)
[02:51] <\sh> dholbach: what now? phew..I'm just glad, that ajmitch touched it the last time ;)
[02:51] <dholbach> haha
[02:51] <dholbach> another bug
[02:51] <\sh> oh no
[02:51] <ogra> rather fix the root of the problem.... rewrite gnucash for gnome2.X
[02:51] <dholbach> TrashGnome1BOF
[02:51] <dholbach> :)
[02:52] <\sh> ogra: the correct fix of this bug: "Use Pen & Paper" ,-)
[02:53] <ogra> heh
[02:54] <ogra> there is a long discussion on debian-gtk-gnome about throwing out gnome1 .... but gnucash still keep the crap in :)
[02:54] <dholbach> how are the python/zope teams inlaunchpad called?
[02:54] <\sh> WEEKEND TIME !
[02:55] <\sh> ogra: heading home now...and rushing for trains
[02:55] <\sh> ogra: will give u a call when I'm there...including keyboard and stuff like this
[02:55] <ogra> whoops...
[02:55] <\sh> ogra: forget about this...
[02:55] <ogra> \sh, :)
[02:55] <\sh> later guys
[02:58] <Yagisan> Bye \sh
[03:12] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:20] <dereks__> hiya!
[03:23] <mbreit> hey bddebian!
[03:24] <bddebian> Heya mbreit
[03:24] <bddebian> Hello dereks__
[03:29] <\sh> ogra: 18:07 as train schedule says...
[03:29] <\sh> there is no ice to your place sadley
[03:30] <ogra> heh, nope, they dont stop at this tiny trainstation :)
[03:30] <\sh> ogra: *g* ok..give u a call when i'm there or just on station before...
[03:41] <bddebian> I see Herve e-mailed the ML, where has he been?
[04:12] <chillywilly> is there a way to be notified via email that there are new packages (kinda like how on the desktop the applet lets you know)...I think it would be a nice feature for sysadmin running a server where there's no X
[04:25] <siretart> chillywilly: use aptitude, there is a section with NEW packages
[04:28] <chillywilly> umm, that's not helpful though :)
[04:28] <chillywilly> I want to be notified, I can always periodically check for new packages or security updates
[04:28] <chillywilly> I think I'll just subscribe the the security announce list
[04:32] <azeem> chillywilly: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/breezy-changes ?
[05:40] <dholbach> dredg: could you check ubuntu bug 12230 and see if it's fixed for you?
[05:59] <mpt> yo
[05:59] <dholbach> zyga: did you and the other ruby folks think about opening a ruby project on launchpad?
[05:59] <dholbach> zyga: a "team" rather?
[05:59] <zyga> dholbach: no, I didn't knew we could
[05:59] <zyga> who can register a project?
[05:59] <dholbach> zyga: you can
[06:00] <dholbach> zyga: register a team (on your personal page)
[06:00] <dholbach> people/zyga or something
[06:00] <zyga> checking
[06:02] <zyga> hmm
[06:02] <dholbach> hmm?
[06:02] <zyga> so how do I start the team exactly?
[06:02] <dholbach> doesnt work?
[06:02] <dholbach> ok let me take a look myself
[06:02] <zyga> no no
[06:02] <zyga> I just don't see anything that resembles 'start a team'
[06:03] <dholbach> ok
[06:03] <dholbach> launchpad.net/people -> "create new team" on the right hand side
[06:03] <zyga> got it
[06:03] <dholbach> ROCK
[06:04] <zyga> so a team named Ruby is fine :)
[06:04] <dholbach> just call it something short
[06:04] <dholbach> yeah
[06:04] <dholbach> ROCK
[06:04] <dholbach> i'll assign you all the bugs ;-p
[06:04] <zyga> okay :-)
[06:04] <dholbach> and be sure to tell the other ruby folks
[06:04] <dholbach> wasnt that lathiat and lucas?
[06:04] <zyga> I'll put this on the wiki and notify them
[06:04] <zyga> now we have more :)
[06:04] <dholbach> WOW
[06:05] <dholbach> you guys really make it happen :)
[06:05] <zyga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURuby
[06:06] <tseng> oh
[06:06] <tseng> please fix ruby-snmp first :)
[06:06] <zyga> how long should subscriptions last?
[06:07] <zyga> I'm opting for 360 days
[06:07] <dholbach> i said "always" in the gnome team
[06:07] <tseng> until people unsubscribe?
[06:07] <dholbach> yeah
[06:07] <dholbach> or i chuck them out :-po
[06:09] <zyga> should I put my email address as the contact address?
[06:11] <zyga> hmm there already is a ruby team
[06:17] <zyga> dholbach: ping
[06:17] <zyga> dholbach: check this outh: https://launchpad.net/people/ruby
[06:18] <zyga> dholbach: if you can suggest any sane resolution of this namespace collision I'm all ears
[06:48] <chillywilly> I had written an init script for Unreal IRCd and right now I run the ircd as root, what's the typical way to run a daemon as a different user?
[06:48] <chillywilly>  -u|--user ?
[06:48] <chillywilly> option to start-stop-daemon that is
[06:49] <chillywilly> hmmm, I should package it
[06:49] <chillywilly> :)
[07:03] <dholbach> Lathiat: zyga had a problem with https://launchpad.net/people/ruby - you could go for a "moturuby" team - that's what the media team did too
[07:08] <dholbach> zenrox: if you're interested, you'll get there soon... really
[07:08] <zenrox> tho i have fixed skype 1.0.17 for ubuntu
[07:09] <dholbach> it's all a matter of interest
[07:09] <dholbach> there will be quite a lot of easy tasks, where you can train up, if you'd like to
[07:09] <zenrox> defentaly train up
[07:09] <zenrox> hehehe
[07:09] <dholbach> ROCK
[07:10] <sivang> bddebian: nahh
[07:10] <dholbach> if dapper opens up, we'll have all hands full of work, and i'd like to have you working with us
[07:10] <sivang> stop being modest :)
[07:10] <zenrox> i have made some packages like java, remade skype(from ther offical repos)
[07:10] <zenrox> so i have some skills
[07:10] <zenrox> and a fast inet
[07:10] <zenrox> too
[07:10] <dholbach> cool
[07:10] <dholbach> :)
[07:11] <zenrox> 3.3m/864k
[07:11] <zenrox> thats a must
[07:11] <zenrox> lol
[07:11] <dholbach> it's not everything :)
[07:11] <zenrox> but it helps
[07:11] <chillywilly> no one can answer me?
[07:11] <chillywilly> bddebian: how can I use start-stop-daemon to run a daemon as someone other than root?
[07:12] <dholbach> chillywilly: did you look at any other init script?
[07:12] <dholbach> chillywilly: loads of them run as differnt users
[07:12] <chillywilly> nah, I was off doing a million other things
[07:12] <zenrox> ya see how others are layed out and coppy the exampole
[07:13] <dholbach> Tonio-! KDE chief! :)
[07:13] <dholbach> how are you?
[07:13] <Tonio-> fine and you ?
[07:13] <dholbach> i'm fine too thanks :)
[07:13] <dholbach> still doing bits of bug triage, before i'm off to a party
[07:14] <Tonio-> ;)
[07:14] <Tonio-> I have to take the train to go and see my girlfriend ;)
[07:14] <dholbach> chillywilly: --user
[07:15] <chillywilly> ok then
[07:15] <chillywilly> that what I asked before and no one said anything either :)
[07:15] <dholbach> dbus and uptimed use it
[07:15] <dholbach> (on my box)
[07:15] <zenrox> postfix troo
[07:15] <zenrox> too
[07:16] <chillywilly> what about --chuid?
[07:16] <chillywilly> that's what postgrest does it seems
[07:16] <chillywilly> postgres
[07:17] <chillywilly> klogd too
[07:23] <bddebian> chillywilly: You are asking ME? :-)
[07:24] <chillywilly> seems like some daemons drop priveleges themselves so all you need is to add that user to the system
[07:24] <chillywilly> bddebian: I was :)
[07:29] <dholbach> Mitario: !
[07:30] <Mitario> yeah!
[07:30] <dholbach> how are you?
[07:30] <dholbach> :)
[07:30] <Mitario> hi ;)
[07:30] <Mitario> yeah great, very busy, but great :)
[07:30] <Mitario> so you guys pulled it off right? :)
[07:30] <dholbach> :)
[07:30] <dholbach> we've ben quite busy, yes ;)
[07:51] <zyga> re
[07:51] <zyga> darn cable modem dies all the time
[07:51] <zyga> dholbach: ping
[07:51] <dholbach> pong
[07:52] <dholbach> you could use moturuby
[07:52] <zyga> dholbach: okay
[07:52] <dholbach> that's what the media team used too
[07:52] <dholbach> it's motumedia
[07:52] <dholbach> super
[07:52] <zyga> done
[07:52] <zyga> moturuby
[07:53] <dholbach> super :)
[07:53] <zyga> I'll add all the people from MOTURuby to MOTURuby :)
[07:53] <dholbach> :)
[08:01] <LaserJock> anybody know why xfontsel would give "Unable to load any usable fontset" ?
[08:01] <zyga> LaserJock: when in doubt, grep the source
[08:01] <zyga> it's usually near an if (...) :-)
[08:03] <zyga> MotuRuby done
[08:04] <zyga> dholbach: does the team have any<EMAIL_ADDRESS>or whatever global mailing list?
[08:04] <dholbach> unforunately not
[08:05] <dholbach> if you don't change it to a mailing list all of the member will get a mail
[08:05] <zyga> dholbach: okay, I guess everyone already got an email after being joined into the team
[08:05] <zyga> great
[08:05] <dholbach> and another two for the bugs i assigned :-p
[08:05] <zyga> oh, bug reports already :)
[08:05] <zyga> thanks
[08:05] <dholbach> that was just for testing
[08:05] <dholbach> one of them was already closed
[08:05] <dholbach> so you already have a fixed bug under your belt :)
[08:05] <siretart> we could install a mailman on tiber
[08:06] <siretart> and create some motu mailing lists
[08:06] <zyga> siretart: as soon as the need arises I'll ask you about it :)
[08:06] <Kyral> I <3 FreeNX :D
[08:06] <siretart> but I don't know if thatwould be desired or even counterproductive
[08:06] <zyga> I'll see how the team works together in the next couple of weeks
[08:06] <dholbach> we'll see how it works out
[08:06] <dholbach> yeah
[08:07] <siretart> We'll definitly need a maillinglist for revu2, for accept maillinglist control and buildlogs
[08:07] <zyga> dholbach: is there any way to assign bugs to MotuRuby instead of to me directly?
[08:07] <Kyral> Holy bugs batman
[08:07] <Kyral> Time to have fun :D
[08:07] <dholbach> zyga: just type "moturuby" in the text box
[08:08] <zyga> https://launchpad.net/people/moturuby/+assignedbugs
[08:08] <zyga> okay
[08:08] <LaserJock> zyga: unfourtunately grep didn't help, any other suggestions?
[08:09] <zyga> LaserJock: you didn't find the place that message is printed?
[08:09] <LaserJock> no
[08:09] <zyga> LaserJock: that's strage
[08:09] <LaserJock> well, I think it is a genergic X thing not specific to the apps. I have at least 2 programs that give this error
[08:10] <Kyral> I'm going after 3129
[08:11] <zyga> did someone write that in notepad or what
[08:13] <LaserJock> if you start xfontsel do you get the same error?
[08:13] <Kyral> Can someone assign 3129 to me? I think I can fix it easy
[08:14] <zyga> Warning: Missing charsets in String to FontSet conversion
[08:14] <zyga> Warning: Unable to load any usable fontset
[08:14] <LaserJock> yep, that's it
[08:14] <zyga> is xfontsel used by ANYTHING?
[08:14] <zyga> xbase-clients
[08:15] <LaserJock> well, the real thing I am going after is Xfig
[08:15] <zyga> dholbach: is it possible to alter control file in breezy (after release) to fix this bug/
[08:16] <dholbach> control file after release?
[08:16] <dholbach> to what?
[08:16] <zyga> dholbach: basically to fix dependencies
[08:16] <dholbach> you could upload to breezy-updates
[08:16] <zyga> okay
[08:17] <Kyral> How do we do that?
[08:17] <zyga> I'm not finished reading this yet but I'd like to know my options
[08:17] <dholbach> get approval for it first
[08:17] <dholbach> we can't upload a million of stuff to breezy-updates
[08:17] <Kyral> Yah
[08:17] <dholbach> you basically have one shot to do it right
[08:17] <Kyral> So I fix something then show it to you? :P
[08:17] <dholbach> and very severe issues only
[08:17] <zyga> I understand
[08:18] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vm/+bug/3129 <---This one is confirmed, and I'm gonna try to fix it
[08:18] <zyga> too bad we don't have delta updates yet
[08:18] <dholbach> i'll have to talk to matt/... - dunno how we handle those cases
[08:18] <dholbach> we should fix it first thing in dapper
[08:18] <dholbach> and then look how to do it in breezy
[08:20] <zyga> right
[08:22] <Kyral> hey in the rules file for the vm package, could I just have a POSTINST file that tells it to make install?
[08:22] <LaserJock> brb, gotta test something
[08:22] <dholbach> Kyral: no
[08:22] <Kyral> hmm then...
[08:22] <dholbach> Kyral: you need to make install on the build system
[08:23] <dholbach> the stuff that is installed in thed 'install' target is in the package
[08:23] <Kyral> err wait
[08:23] <Kyral> make :P Not make install :P
[08:23] <dholbach> 'make install' on the side where the package is actually installed (where postinst runs) wouldnt help
[08:23] <dholbach> the same
[08:23] <Kyral> hmm, well somehow it has to get run...
[08:23] <dholbach> you have to heavily distinguish between build system and installation system
[08:23] <Kyral> rules maybe...
[08:24] <dholbach> yeah
[08:24] <dholbach> exactly
[08:24] <Kyral> okay!
[08:24] <Kyral> I'm on it. Fix a typo and change rules :D
[08:24] <dholbach> but that should happen more or less automatically
[08:24] <Kyral> It isn't thats the problem
[08:24] <dholbach> (depending on the build system of the software)
[08:24] <Kyral> See the bug ;P
[08:24] <dholbach> ok looking
[08:25] <dholbach> ok i see
[08:25] <Kyral> I've confirmed both counts
[08:26] <Kyral> Can I go for it? :D
[08:26] <LaserJock> ok, found my problem. If I have my locale set to en_US ISO-8859-1 then the error messages go away
[08:26] <dholbach> counts?
[08:26] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[08:26] <Kyral> the typo in README.Debian
[08:26] <dholbach> ah ok
[08:26] <dholbach> super
[08:26] <Kyral> and the whole having to do "sudo make"
[08:26] <dholbach> did you write "sudo make" in debian/rules?
[08:27] <Kyral> not yet
[08:27] <dholbach> "sudo" is wrong
[08:27] <dholbach> unfortunately
[08:27] <Kyral> I know ;P
[08:27] <dholbach> ok :)
[08:27] <Kyral> I'm pbuildering the original package right now to do a control test ;P
[08:27] <dholbach> ouch
[08:28] <dholbach> the packaging is ... intersting
[08:28] <dholbach> VERY :)
[08:28] <Kyral> vm?
[08:28] <dholbach> yeah
[08:28] <Kyral> howso?
[08:28] <dholbach> 792K in debian/
[08:28] <dholbach> and only 148k in examples
[08:28] <Kyral> eh?
[08:28] <dholbach> i'd drop most of it :)
[08:28] <Kyral> Its a mode for Emacs I think
[08:29] <dholbach> apt-get source vm; du -sh vm*/debian/
[08:29] <Kyral> can't right now, apt is locked
[08:29] <Kyral> pbuilder ;P
[08:29] <dholbach> yeah
[08:29] <dholbach> and you have the source in front of you :)
[08:29] <Kyral> anyway why is that odd?
[08:29] <Kyral> good point...
[08:30] <dholbach> the stuff in debian/common is crack
[08:30] <Kyral> uhh?
[08:30] <dholbach> it contains common scripts to make writing debian/rules easier
[08:30] <Kyral> CDBS?
[08:30] <dholbach> i suppose it's an ancient packaging
[08:30] <LaserJock> does anybody know how to fix my locale problem? Or at least where to look? apparently UTF-8 is the problem
[08:30] <dholbach> today, exactly, you use CDBS
[08:30] <bddebian> Gotta move, bbiab
[08:31] <dholbach> LaserJock: sorry, what causes you grief?
[08:31] <Kyral> So should I just fix it or completely rewrite it?
[08:31] <dholbach> Kyral: that's not necessary, only if you intended to maintain it
[08:31] <Kyral> heck no
[08:31] <dholbach> if we fix stuff, we try to keep the diff small
[08:31] <Kyral> I'm just gonna fix the thing :P
[08:31] <dholbach> readable, but small
[08:32] <Kyral> so can I assign it to me in Launchpad?
[08:32] <LaserJock> some apps give error about "Unable to load any usable fontset" unless ISO-8859-1 is used instead of UTF-8
[08:32] <Kyral> the bug that is
[08:32] <dholbach> Kyral: if you finished and it works for you, you could attach the debdiff to it
[08:32] <dholbach> Kyral: so we all 'd get the mail announcing it and have a look and upload it
[08:32] <Kyral> I havent even started, pbuilder is slow due to the mirror being ravaged
[08:32] <dholbach> yeah
[08:33] <Kyral> I'll confirm it at least
[08:33] <dholbach> it's nice to have you cracking on it
[08:33] <Kyral> eh?
[08:33] <dholbach> be sure to ping me or somebody else to proofread the diff
[08:33] <Kyral> okay
[08:33] <dholbach> ROCK :)
[08:33] <dholbach> and once dapper is open, we fix it for good
[08:33] <Kyral> Comment added
[08:34] <Kyral> should I changed the status to accepted?
[08:34] <dholbach> yeah
[08:34] <Kyral> and assigned to..?
[08:34] <dholbach> leave it to motu
[08:34] <Kyral> right
[08:34] <dholbach> so we all get the mail when you have the patch in place
[08:35] <dholbach> and can act on that
[08:35] <Kyral> yup yup
[08:35] <Kyral> MOTU List is Ubuntu-Devel right?
[08:35] <Kyral> or is there a separate mailing list..
[08:35] <dholbach> yeah
[08:36] <dholbach> but for bugs we have a different one
[08:36] <dholbach> universe-bugs@
[08:36] <Kyral> kk, remind me to subscribe to that one
[08:37] <Kyral> Oh how would I attached a debdiff to it?
[08:37] <dholbach> there's a "add file" somewhere
[08:37] <dholbach> on the bug's page
[08:37] <Kyral> k. and I assume in the changelog I just increment the number after ubuntu?
[08:37] <dholbach> yeah
[08:37] <dholbach> you can use   dch -i -Ddapper  for that
[08:38] <Kyral> k
[08:38] <dholbach> Kyral: please subscribe to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>- you can do so on http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/universe-bugs - this is necessary to have you better informed about bugs in universe, which will help to have universe cleaner, which will make ubuntu nicer and will bring us closer to world domination. i hope you can see the point. thanks for your involvement.
[08:38] <Kyral> and just attach the diff file that dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot makes?
[08:39] <dholbach> debuild -S  is shorter
[08:39] <dholbach> (which will build the source package)
[08:39] <Kyral> okay
[08:39] <dholbach> debdiff bla1.dsc bla2.dsc will give you the debdiff
[08:39] <Kyral> cool
[08:40] <LaserJock> dholbach: some apps give error about "Unable to load any usable fontset" unless ISO-8859-1 is used instead of UTF-8
[08:41] <dholbach> hm
[08:41] <dholbach> did you instlal the language-packs for you?
[08:41] <dholbach> and maybe   dpkg-reconfigure locales
[08:42] <zyga> geez
[08:42] <LaserJock> I did dpkg-reconfigure locales. If I set the default to ISO-8859-1 it is all good, but if I set the default to UTF-8 it gives warnings
[08:42] <zyga> did we get rid of the ./ crowd already?
[08:42] <zyga> I'm fetching de locale and it's pretty slow
[08:42] <Kyral> appending make to rules should fix this...
[08:43] <dholbach> ok, guys, i'm off
[08:43] <dholbach> need to go to a party:)
[08:43] <Kyral> cya
[08:43] <LaserJock> cya
[08:43] <dholbach> have a good time!
[08:43] <zyga> bye
[09:06] <LaserJock> heha \sh
[09:06] <\sh> joho LaserJock
[09:08] <LaserJock> i've got a problem with locales
[09:08] <\sh> and I have my free time :)
[09:09] <LaserJock> some programs give warnings like "Unable to load any usable fontset" if locale is set to UTF-8
[09:10] <\sh> u have the language selector installed? which is installed via ubuntu-desktop...
[09:10] <\sh> and now I'll give my laptop to suse, ogra's better half
[09:11] <LaserJock> \sh: yes language selector is installed
[09:12] <LaserJock> when I do dpkg-reconfigure locales and set the default to ISO-8859-1 the warning go away
[09:13] <LaserJock> try starting xfontsel and see if it gives you these warnings
[09:16] <Mez> w00hoo
[09:16] <Mez> my own computer
[09:16] <Mez> *pets it*
[09:17] <zyga> Mez: good for you
[09:17] <zyga> Mez: anything less common than i386
[09:18] <Kyral> Waiiiit.
[09:18] <Mez> Linux apathy 2.6.12-8-k7 #1 Thu Sep 15 22:09:23 UTC 2005 i686 GNU/Linux
[09:18] <Kyral> You don't need to compile el files....do you...
[09:18] <Mez> i686?
[09:18] <Mez> should be k7
[09:19] <LaserJock> Mez, same thing here "Linux lambda 2.6.12-9-k7 #1 Mon Oct 10 13:47:52 BST 2005 i686 GNU/Linux"
[09:20] <LaserJock> what the heck is BST?
[09:20] <Kyral> Okay, 3129 just got easier
[09:28] <saintsjd> I am working with the debianGIS group.  We have just updated the gdal package to from 1.2.6 to 1.3.1.  Its the first of many packages that we would like to sync it to ubuntu. What are the steps I should take to get started?
[09:28] <plugwash> BST is british summer time
[09:29] <Mez> saintsjd, it should be auto-synced across for dapper
[09:31] <saintsjd> Great for drapper. is there a way that we could update the breezy packages also? perhaps via new upstream release? or is it too late?
[09:33] <Mez> saintsjd, once it goes into dapper, as long as it builds for breezy, I can auth it for backports
[09:33] <Mez> but thats about the only place you'll get it in now if it isnt already in the archives
[09:34] <saintsjd> Mez, ok. That makes sense.  I should just focus then on getting things into debian unstable.  When will packages be synced for drapper?
[09:35] <saintsjd> Mez, Its builds on breezy. I am running it now.
[09:35] <ivoks> backports?
[09:35] <ivoks> why in backports?
[09:35] <Mez> saintsjd, I'm not too sure about dapper stuff, as elmo or keybuk... but it should stat syncing everything across soon
[09:35] <ivoks> backported from where?
[09:35] <Mez> ivoks from dapper to breezy
[09:35] <ivoks> Mez: once it gets in dapper, yes
[09:35] <ivoks> but not before that...
 saintsjd, once it goes into dapper, as long as it builds for breezy, I can auth it for backports
[09:36] <ivoks> Mez: yeah, my mistake, sorry
[09:36] <Mez> :P
[09:40] <Kyral> if I'm attaching a debdiff to a bug that fixes it, should I mark it as a Patch?
[09:40] <saintsjd> Thanks Mez.
[09:40] <Mez> Kyral, yes
[09:40] <Kyral> kk. I assume filename doesn't matter?
[09:41] <Mez> saintsjd, watch packages.ubuntu.com as soon as it gets into breezy, email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and let me know and I'll clear it
[09:41] <Mez> Kyral, It'll probably be renamed anyways
[09:41] <Mez> what bug is it
[09:41] <Kyral> 3129 in Launchpad
[09:43] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vm/+bug/3129
[09:43] <Kyral> Just a typo...I already fixed it ;P
[09:45] <Kyral> should I go ahead and attach the debdiff?
[09:45] <Mez> yeah
[09:45] <Mez> and I'll fix it in a sec
[09:45] <Kyral> I already did :P
[09:46] <Kyral> and attached
[09:46] <Mez> Kyral, you fxied and uploaded?
[09:47] <saintsjd> Mez, I will watch the packages site. Thanks... the Ubuntu community is always so responsive.
[09:47] <Mez> saintsjd, we try :D
[09:47] <Kyral> Mez I can't upload
[09:47] <Kyral> I'm just a MOTU-In-Training
[09:48] <Mez> Kyral, hence why I said I'd fix it
[09:48] <Mez> aka upload it
[09:48] <Kyral> oh okay :D
[09:48] <Kyral> sorry :P
[09:48] <Kyral> Can I mark it fixed?
[09:49] <Mez> no
[09:49] <Mez> I've marked it PendingUpload
[09:49] <Mez> pluys I dont think you have access to
[09:49] <Kyral> ah okay
[09:49] <Kyral> I can change status, but then go into hold until someone reviews them
[09:51] <Kyral> Oh well, Bug Squished either way :D
[09:51] <LaserJock> do any of you have xfig installed?
[09:57] <Kyral> yo Seveas
[09:57] <Seveas> oi
[09:58] <Kyral> wait...Mez did you mean upload rights to REVU?
[09:59] <Mez> no
[09:59] <Kyral> okay. Too...many...upload...thigns...
[09:59] <Kyral> *THUD!*
[10:00] <Kyral> ;P Thanks everyone for putting up with my stupid questions all the time :D
[10:00] <Mez> ogra: ping
[10:01] <siretart> Mez: hi dude!
[10:01] <Mez> siretart: hey
[10:01] <siretart> Mez: I just read your email on u-backports
[10:01] <Mez> lol
[10:01] <Mez> the one I just sent?
[10:01] <siretart> Mez: I thought the mirrormax mirror is already closed, so I'm a bit confused now
[10:01] <Mez> I'm a bit behind
[10:02] <Kyral> I know jdong is using MirroxMax to host Breezy-Extras-Staging
[10:04] <siretart> I also think I read that he wanted to maintain some sort of staging directory
[10:04] <Kyral> I heard that its his equivelent to Debian Marrilat
[10:04] <Kyral> or something like that
[10:05] <Mez> I'm trying to contact him now
[10:08] <siretart> Kyral: he had a directory 'hoary-extras' where he did stuff in like libdvdcss and w32codecs
[10:08] <siretart> Kyral: but he already removed these, 'for legal reasons'
[10:12] <Kyral> More bugs to be squished...
[10:12] <Mez> siretart: no I removed some cause people were bitching (bob2 mainly)
[10:13] <siretart> Mez: ah.
[10:13] <Kyral> yo bddebian
[10:14] <LaserJock> Mez: so is there a place to get the extras or is that just discontinued altogether?
[10:21] <bddebian> Heya Kyral
[10:21] <Mez> LaserJock - I'm not oo sure
[10:23] <LaserJock> ok, I was able to figure out my locale problem, I think. If I run "xset fp rehash" the warnings go away in the old X apps
[10:23] <LaserJock> but how does that relate to fixing the bug?
[10:44] <sivang> bddebian: so, what works are still left to do to get more changlogs entries?
[10:47] <bddebian> sivang: Probably not much until Dapper :-)
[10:48] <bddebian> sivang: Maybe some bugfixing on Malone :-)
[10:48] <Kyral> Yah
[10:49] <Kyral> The BugFixing is ripe today
[10:49] <sivang> bddebian: ah I see, well, what are the plans for dapper?
[10:49] <Kyral> minor typos :D
[10:49] <sivang> Kyral: yo :)
[10:49] <sivang> Kyral: whassup with you dude?
[10:49] <Kyral> Squashed my first bug :D
[10:49] <sivang> bddebian: no more trasitions to be made??
[10:49] <bddebian> sivang: There will be a ton of merges once Dapper opens I think
[10:49] <LaserJock> Kyral: dang it, I've been trying to get my first all day ;-)
[10:50] <Kyral> just a typo in a readme, but it snagged me a changelog entry :D
[10:50] <bddebian> What good is that doing if you can't upload?
[10:50] <Kyral> Mez is gonna upload it for me
[10:50] <bddebian> Mez can't upload either
[10:50] <Mez> yes I can
[10:50] <bddebian> To what?
[10:50] <Kyral> lol there he is
[10:50] <Mez> universe
[10:50] <bddebian> Breezy?
[10:51] <Mez> yes
[10:51] <bddebian> It thought it was locked?
[10:51] <Mez> oh... lol
[10:51] <Mez> yeah
[10:51] <Kyral> ...then why couldn't I stick it in REVU?
[10:51] <Kyral> oh nm :P
[10:51] <Mez> Kyral: change it to accepted
[10:51] <Kyral> This is why dholbach told me to change the Distro on the changelog to Dapper :D
[10:51] <Kyral> you got it
[10:52] <Kyral> So when Dapper opens, it will get uploaded?
[10:52] <Mez> yeah
[10:53] <Mez> prob at UBZ
[10:53] <Kyral> Couldn't I have done that :P
[10:53] <Mez> not if you dont have upload rights
[10:54] <\sh> Dapper is opened from tuesday on
[10:54] <sivang> guys, dapper will open from tuesday
[10:54] <Kyral> I can upload to REVU
[10:54] <Kyral> or do you mean other upload rights?
[10:55] <sivang> so no more packages requiring love in universe? I'm alwasy too late :)
[10:55] <\sh> sivang: wait until tuesday
[10:55] <sivang> anyway, more time to work on my goals and bofs, produce some demos, and give some DB2 love to ubuntu :)
[10:55] <Kyral> Oh someone look over my DCBU already. It should be fully polished :P
[10:55] <sivang> \sh: sure, will allow me to also read some stuff to be prepared.
[10:56] <sivang> Kyral: that's the package selection thinigy?
[10:56] <\sh> sivang: hehe.debian-new-maintainer-guide :)
[10:56] <Kyral> its hte config backup thingy
[10:56] <Kyral> So basically we fix packages and as soon as Dapper opens we send them all to REVU?
[10:57] <sivang> \sh: nahh, that's passe - I'm in need for reviewing the policy :)
[10:57] <\sh> sivang: hehe
[10:57] <\sh> btw...cheers guys
[10:57] <Mez> hey \sh
[10:57] <sivang> \sh: really, I've read the NM guide for a dozen of times, never supplied to full view I was looking,
[10:57] <\sh> hey Mez
[10:57] <sivang> \sh: I wish I was fluent with packaging as I am fluent with code :)
[10:57] <\sh> sivang: as I just said to ogra...we don't know nothing
[10:58] <\sh> ;)
[10:58] <Kyral> Mez: If its okay with you I'll upload the package to REVU on Tuesday
[10:58] <Mez> Kyral: if it's just a patch, there's no need
[10:59] <Mez> I just use the patch, then upload
[10:59] <Kyral> okay
[10:59] <LaserJock> does anybody know where X puts commands that it executes on startup?
[10:59] <Kyral> Still, its my first fix :D
[10:59] <Kyral> and first changelog entry :D
[11:00] <Kyral> and cya guys later :P
[11:00] <Kyral> Dinner calls
[11:01] <Mez> LaserJock, X doesnt, the weindow manager does
[11:15] <LaserJock> Mez: well, doesn't X start things at the beginning, before a window manager?
[11:16] <Mez> yea, the window manager
[11:16] <LaserJock> ok, well as I understand it the font's are supposed to be updated every time X is started
[11:17] <LaserJock> but I am having to execut xset fp rehash every time
[11:27] <LaserJock> hmm, well this is frustrating but I don't know if there is anything I can do about it


[05:49] <pitti> Good morning
[07:55] <jibel> Good morning
[09:37] <slickymaster> morning all
[11:00] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:03] <slickymaster> morning davmor2
[12:44] <rbasak> pitti, jibel: do you have any thoughts on adding armhf dep8 testing to -proposed migration gating, please? I presume you need hardware, of course, but if I could provide a suitable chassis, then are there any other implications to doing this?
[12:44] <pitti> rbasak: we actuall had that running for a while, but tore it down again because it was too unreliable
[12:45] <pitti> at least at that time there was no suitable virtualization technology, and RAM/storage was too small even for LXC
[12:45] <pitti> rbasak: with a Calxeda box that should probably work; do we have one available now?
[12:45] <rbasak> pitti: we may do. I'm trying to figure that out. What hardware were you running on before?
[12:46] <pitti> rbasak: Panda boards
[12:46] <rbasak> I see.
[12:46] <pitti> rbasak: I take it we'd start with adt-virt-lxc?
[12:46] <pitti> (as there's no qemu)
[12:46] <rbasak> I'm not sure. That's up for discussion, I guess.
[12:46] <pitti> rbasak: I think tests without "Restrictions: needs-root" should probably mostly get along with lxc
[12:46] <pitti> things like udisks, upstart, or gvfs won't
[12:47] <rbasak> We do have rudimentary qemu now I believe, but that would require an A15 box, and I'm not sure about availability of those.
[12:47] <pitti> but I think the majority of our tests don't need root, so having at least those covered by ARM would be great
[12:47] <rbasak> An alternative would be to do bare metal, and reinstall every time. Depending on how many nodes are available that may not be too bad.
[12:47] <pitti> rbasak: well, it's better to start small anyway; so if we have a box big enough to run lxc on, that'd already be something
[12:47] <pitti> rbasak: no, we tried that, and it was maintenance hell
[12:47] <pitti> that's what we did with the panda
[12:48] <pitti> s
[12:48] <rbasak> I have had automated install running well and reliably on highbanks in the lab for years
[12:48] <pitti> those would be nice for running the needs-root tests, of course
[12:49] <rbasak> This hardware needs to go into a dedicated lab, right? So it can't share resources with anywhere else?
[12:49] <pitti> rbasak: I don't know much about the lab organization, I'm afraid
[12:49] <rbasak> Who do I need to ask about that?
[12:49] <pitti> rbasak: my gut feeling is that having reliable network access to them is sufficient
[12:50] <pitti> rbasak: retoaded and jibel are good people to talk about that, I think
[12:50] <pitti> rbasak: that'd be great indeed
[12:50] <rbasak> If remote, then do the nodes still need to be permanently allocated to Jenkins?
[12:50] <rbasak> Or is there any opportunity for a more dynamic mechanism?
[12:50] <pitti> rbasak: also, I haven't yet tried running tests in the ubuntu emulator; that might also be worth a try at least for the no-root ones
[12:51] <pitti> rbasak: I think you can add/remove executors to jenkins fairly dynamically; but again, that's jibel's area
[12:51] <rbasak> I think I can get you a suitable chassis or access to one. It's not certain yet, though, but I'd like to progress further with figuring out how this would work.
[12:51] <pitti> rbasak: nice! thanks for that
[12:52] <rbasak> I'll wait for jibel to see this I guess. Thanks!
[12:55] <jibel> rbasak, autopkgtest have been running on pandaboards in LXC with external drives for a while. But they were constantly dying under load and required most of the time required manual intervention. Maintenance cost was clearly too high compared to the benefit.
[12:55] <jibel> if there is something more reliable why not
[12:55] <pitti> ah, they already used lxc
[12:56] <jibel> rbasak, the other point is that we'll want to not gate everything on ARM testing because that'd would slow down the whole publication
[12:57] <jibel> and we'd need to be able to select which package to run on which architecture
[12:57] <rbasak> jibel: that makes sense. Is it possible to have a list of packages that we care about, and just test those?
[12:58] <pitti> I think at first we want to run all (non-root) tests but don't gate on them
[12:58] <jibel> rbasak, it is possible, but requires changes in the interface with britney
[12:58] <pitti> to see how many tests need adjusting and how stable the system is
[12:59] <jibel> pitti, that's easy because it is how it was running before I disabled it
[12:59] <rbasak> jibel: OK, so what should we do next? If I get you a chassis, would that be useful, or would it need to sit unused while we sort out the infrastructure changes?
[13:00] <rbasak> jibel: also, does the chassis need to go to a particular lab, or is remote access OK?
[13:00] <retoaded> pitti, we do have a Calxeda available within the lab and have 4 nodes on it allocated for jibel
[13:01] <retoaded> pitti, with a possibility of allocating a few more if needed
[13:01] <pitti> retoaded: nice! I guess they are beefy enough to host one or two GB (temporarily)?
[13:01] <retoaded> pitti, should be
[13:03] <retoaded> pitti you can log into cyclops-node02 if you want to check one of the nodes out
[13:04] <pitti> retoaded: Host cyclops-node02.ubuntu-ci not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
[13:04] <pitti> retoaded: I guess I need some other gateway?
[13:05] <pitti> retoaded: sorry, forgot to start VPN after reboot
[13:05] <retoaded> pitti, shouldn't. let me check it; may not have added the shotname cname value to DNS
[13:05] <pitti> retoaded: asks me for password
[13:05] <retoaded> pitti, ahhh, that could explain it too
[13:05] <pitti> retoaded: (as pitti)
[13:05] <retoaded> pitti, see PM
[13:06] <pitti> thanks
[13:06] <retoaded> np
[13:06] <pitti> /dev/sda2        46G  1.6G   42G   4% /
[13:06] <pitti> holy crap, 42 GB? that's an ARM machine! :-)
[13:06] <pitti> /dev/sda3       409G   71M  388G   1% /data
[13:07] <pitti> retoaded: can I install lxc and autopkgtest on that, etc.?
[13:08] <retoaded> pitti, yep. that is one of the systems allocated to jibel so do what you want :-)
[13:08] <pitti> retoaded: so even dist-upgrade to saucy, or even trusty? (not sure how much maintenance their base systems get from you)
[13:08] <pitti> retoaded: sweet, thanks
[13:08] <retoaded> pitti, I haven't done anything with them since the base install
[13:09] <retoaded> pitti, you have node02 to node05 allocated atm
[13:09] <pitti> rbasak, jibel: I'll set up cyclops-node02 for saucy, create a trusty LXC container on it and run a few autopkgtests to get a feeling
[13:10] <pitti> retoaded: ah, packages seem a bit broken, running apt-get -f install; is "reboot" safe?
[13:11] <pitti> (/boot is full, cleaning up a few old kernels)
[13:18] <pitti> retoaded: ok, reboot worked fine, and kernels cleaned up
[13:18] <retoaded> pitti, ack
[13:32] <jibel> retoaded, ah, I completely forgot this system, thanks for reminding me :)
[13:33] <pitti> jibel: I'll fix and upgrade node03 in the meantime
[13:33] <jibel> retoaded, are we free to do what we want with these nodes and there is some kind of CI procedure to follow?
[13:43] <WebbyIT> Hey balloons :-)
[13:48] <pitti> jibel, retoaded: meh, I'm afraid I already killed cyclops02 -- it seems it doesn't like the saucy kernel?
[13:48] <pitti> sorry about that
[13:49] <jibel> pitti, ah, it wasn't long :)
[13:49] <jibel> rbasak, that's how it goes with testing on ARM ;)
[13:49] <pitti> I'll try and keep the raring kernel on cyclops03
[13:50] <retoaded> jibel, yes, you are completely free to do what you need with those 4 nodes
[13:50] <rbasak> What you want is a one-command "restore this machine" tool, that works out-of-band so doesn't care about the state of the machine.
[13:51] <rbasak> IMHO, this should be the case for any deployment anywhere. I wrote this for pandaboards and later extended to the highbanks. Then breaking a node no longer matters :)
[13:51] <pitti> $ fix-machine --boot-raring-kernel cyclops-node02
[13:52] <rbasak> Pretty much, yeah. My command took URLs or paths to d-i kernel, initrd, kernel parameters, etc, ran expect on the serial console, and exited with a zero status on success.
[14:23] <balloons> hey WebbyIT
[14:25] <WebbyIT> balloons, I hope you are fine :-) What's about https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/ubuntu-calculator-app/cmake/+merge/202176?
[14:28] <balloons> WebbyIT, using cmake is going to allow you to test easier using a new tool sergio wrote
[14:28] <balloons> he used calculator as the test
[14:28] <WebbyIT> balloons, interesting! So, I leave to you the honour to review it ;-)
[14:29] <balloons> WebbyIT, :-) I'll leave some details about how it works
[14:29] <WebbyIT> yeah, awesome, thanks!
[14:40] <pitti> rbasak: hey, maybe you know: I dist-upgraded that arm node from raring to saucy, but I want it to boot with the raring kernel
[14:41] <pitti> rbasak: i. e. I'd move the /boot/vmlinuz and initrd.img symlinks to the old kernel
[14:41] <pitti> rbasak: do I need to run anything else to activate that, or will the boot loader just work? (that's /boot/boot.scr apparently, and just says "vmlinuz")
[14:43] <pitti> I might need to run flash-kernel for that?
[14:43] <pitti> retoaded: ^ or maybe you know
[14:44] <pitti> retoaded: so cyclops-node02 is fully upgraded to saucy (3.11.0-15 kernel) and didn't come back after reboot; node04 is just a plain upgrade to current raring (-35 kernel), and came back; node03 is upgraded to saucy, but didn't reboot yet; I'd like to reboot with the raring kernel to avoid the same fate as node02
[14:44] <retoaded> pitti, hmmm .....
[14:45] <pitti> retoaded: ah, I'll ask ogra about that, he'll know
[14:45] <retoaded> pitti, ack. in the mean time I'll look at node02
[14:46] <rbasak> pitti: I don't recall, off the top of my head. Running "sudo flash-kernel" won't hurt.
[14:46] <rbasak> pitti: can you pastebin boot.scr and `ls /boot`?
[14:48] <pitti> rbasak: /etc/kernel/postrm.d/zz-flash-kernel calls that with an ABI
[14:48] <pitti> rbasak: I haven't changed anythign yet, doing now
[14:50] <retoaded> pitti, node02 did come back up but assigned the wrong interface in the default route
[14:50] <retoaded> it's fixed now
[14:51] <pitti> retoaded: ah, good to know
[14:51] <pitti> retoaded: what did you change, so that I can do the same change to node03 before I reboot?
[14:53] <retoaded> pitti, I set eth1 to manual in /etc/network/interfaces
[14:53] <pitti> indeed, I wonder what the second one is
[14:53] <rbasak> pitti: IIRC, on highbank, flash-kernel does very little, since U-Boot can read /boot/vmlinuz directly. I think the boot.scr just points to it and sets parameters and that's all. But it's been a while.
[14:53] <pitti> rbasak: right; now that I know that both kernels work and it's due to /e/network/interfaces, I can verify that safely :)
[14:55] <pitti> <IP_ADDRESS>       <IP_ADDRESS>         <IP_ADDRESS>   U     0      0        0 eth0
[14:55] <pitti> <IP_ADDRESS>       <IP_ADDRESS>         <IP_ADDRESS>   U     0      0        0 eth1
[14:55] <pitti> retoaded: ^ indeed, that's from the (not yet rebooted) node03; that looks wrong
[14:56] <retoaded> that is does
[15:09] <pitti> retoaded: nice trick with ipmitool; node05 isn't reachable via network (and I haven't touched that at all yet); I salvaged that as well
[15:09] <retoaded> pitti, sweet
[15:09] <pitti> so same old by now, fix overflowing /boot, fix apt, upgrade to saucy
[15:26] <pitti> rbasak: ah, too bad -- adt-virt-lxc only works with a cloud image (we really need to fix that), and lxc-create -t ubuntu-cloud barfs with "confused by argument: armhf"
[15:26] <pitti> I take it we don't have armhf cloud images?
[15:26] <pitti> hm, actually we do on http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/trusty/current/
[15:35] <rbasak> pitti: is that an lxc bug? I think lxc-create should work with armhf on -t ubuntu-cloud.
[15:35] <pitti> rbasak: figured it out; I took trusty's cloud-image-utils, worked now
[15:35] <pitti> saucy's is too old for armhf
[15:35] <rbasak> Ah, OK.
[15:39] <pitti> rbasak: adt-virt-lxc still doesn't seem to like them, though :(
[15:40] <pitti> RuntimeError: Failed to find host root directory for container 'adt-virt-lxc-qcayey'.
[15:40] <pitti> "sudo lxc-start-ephemeral -o trusty-cloud" works perfectly, though
[15:42] <pitti>         host_guest_root = '/var/lib/lxc/%s/%s' % (lxc_name, subdir)
[15:42] <pitti> ooh
[15:42] <pitti> that's not true, I have containers in /data/lxc/
[15:42] <pitti> we need to teach that to read the LXC config
[15:43] <pitti> hah!
[15:44] <rbasak> That whole area of the code is a hack.
[15:45] <rbasak> The moment we can have lxc-wait support, it can all go away
[15:45] <rbasak> bug 1266808
[15:45] <pitti> *nod*
[15:47] <pitti> meh, cloud images' apt sources use archive.u.c. instead of ports
[15:52] <slickymaster> hey DanChapman
[16:02] <DanChapman> hey slickymaster :-)
[16:04] <pitti> retoaded, jibel: so cyclops-node0[2345] are now running up-to-date saucy and reboot reliably; cyclops-node0[23] have lxc installed and "trusty" and "trusty-cloud" (cloud-image) containers
[16:04] <pitti> $ sudo adt-run -B libpng_1.2.49-5ubuntu1.dsc --- adt-virt-lxc --ephemeral trusty-cloud
[16:04] <pitti> jibel, rbasak ^ succeeds at last \o/
[16:04] <pitti> I had to fix and upgrade the trusty cloud image
[16:04] <slickymaster> DanChapman: thanks for that, mate. I really appreciate it
[16:04] <retoaded> pitti \o/
[16:04] <jibel> pitti, wow
[16:04]  * jibel is impressed
[16:05] <pitti> I'll set up apt-cacher-ng on node2/3 to speed up things
[16:05] <DanChapman> slickymaster, No worries when is the membership meeting? I will try to turn up aswell :-)
[16:06] <jibel> pitti, they should have access to apt proxy on tachash
[16:06] <pitti> jibel: ah, is that squid or apt-cacher-ng or something else?
[16:06] <jibel> it is running on port 8000
[16:07] <jibel> pitti, squid
[16:07] <slickymaster> DanChapman: the meeting will be held on February 6th, 2014 at 22:00:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net
[16:08] <slickymaster> DanChapman: if you're willing, which I thank you, I'll ping you coming the day
[16:08] <pitti> jibel: works fine, thanks; I'll configure it on all four nodes
[16:08] <jibel> pitti, that's what upgrade tests are using and it works quite well
[16:13] <pitti> jibel: done
[16:15]  * pitti tries the postgresql-plsh autopkgtest, that's more elaborate
[16:19] <pitti> works
[16:20] <pitti> jibel: that looks quite promising indeed!
[16:20] <pitti> jibel: want me to set up the other two nodes while I'm at it?
[16:21] <jibel> pitti, if you have time for it,  go ahead
[16:45] <pitti> jibel: I suggest we don't create fresh trusty-cloud containers daily, but instead dist-upgrade that instance
[16:45] <pitti> jibel: today's armhf cloud instance is horribly outdated (dist-upgrade takes like 20 mins), and it needs some adjustment after creation
[16:55] <pitti> jibel: ok, all four nodes are now ready to run autopkgtests; I tested libpng on all four
[16:55] <pitti> jibel: in case you wonder, containers are in /data/lxc/, /etc/lxc/lxc.conf configures that
[16:55] <pitti> jibel: as /data/ has tons of space
[16:56] <pitti> rbasak: ^ FYI
[16:56] <rbasak> utlemming: ^^ - I guess we need to sort these out?
[16:57] <pitti> utlemming: ah, are you building the armhf cloud images? their apt sources use archive.u.c. instead of ports.u.c., and are very outdated (trusty)
[16:58] <pitti> well, either it's the cloud images themselves, or the lxc-create ubuntu-cloud template (not sure what creates the apt sources)
[16:58] <pitti> sorry, need to run to Taekwondo now, have a nice evening everyone!
[16:58] <utlemming> pitti: er, they use ports now, not archive. IF not then there is an issue
[16:59] <utlemming> pitti: or an issue with cloud-init
[17:12] <slickymaster> bbl ->
[19:18] <elfy> balloons: ok - how about "Proceed with the test in your native language. Note that the testcase will remain in English and you will need to translate instructions to suit"
[19:19] <balloons> hmm.. a bit wordy.. Perhaps we place in italics?
[19:19] <balloons> wordy as in long, but if we shorten it's likely to be confusing.. it's well said, just the explaination is long :-)
[19:19] <elfy> Proceed in your native language. Instructions will remain in English
[19:19] <elfy> Proceed in your native language if you wish. Instructions will remain in English
[19:21] <elfy> balloons: 2 more to choose from then ^^ :p
[19:21] <balloons> i like the shortest I guess :-)
[19:21] <elfy> :p
[19:21] <elfy> ok - so who to italicise it ?
[19:22] <elfy> how ...
[19:26] <balloons> mm strong bolds it
[19:26] <balloons> I think <i> still works
[19:27] <elfy> ok
[19:28] <elfy> I'll plan to get them done by the time your about tomorrow then

[19:29] <knome> for emphasize
[19:30] <elfy> ta
[19:31] <balloons> ^^ knome's got it
[19:31] <elfy> :)
[19:31] <balloons> I know <b> and <i> are SO old school
[19:31] <balloons> ty much elfy
[19:31] <elfy> you know more than me balloons - it's all voodoo as you are aware :p
[19:32] <knome> well <b> and <i> should still work i guess, but they refer to specific *style* rather than the *purpose*
[19:33] <elfy> woooosh
 and <em> are meaningful for screen-readers too, because they know to read something in a *strong* or *emphasized* way, rather than read something... "bold" or "italic" ?
[19:33] <elfy> stuck in the wall above my head that is :p
[19:33] <knome> hooray for more semantic web!
[19:47] <Letozaf_> balloons, hello
[19:48] <balloons> Letozaf_, hello
[19:49] <Letozaf_> balloons, I've fixed some autopilot calendar app tests that failed for localization problems, but I think I have found a bug on other tests
[19:49] <balloons> Letozaf_, I'm working on calendar still today as well.. What did you find?
[19:49] <balloons> I'm confused why it's failing on dashboard atm
[19:49] <Letozaf_> balloons, for instance if I run calendar_app.tests.test_weekview.TestWeekView.test_current_week_is_selected test
[19:50] <Letozaf_> balloons, it fails because calendar app gets sunday as fist day of weed but in Italy it's supposed to be monday
[19:52] <balloons> Letozaf_, ahh.. ok, that is supposed to be accounted for in the test
[19:52] <balloons> see _get_first_day_of_week
[19:52] <balloons> what day of the week does it say is the first day
[19:52] <Letozaf_> balloons, I get "Locale has Sunday as first day of week"
[19:52] <Letozaf_> balloons, but it should be monday
[19:53] <Letozaf_> balloons, the value of daystart property is wrong
[19:54] <balloons> ahh, well.. weird. Does the calendar show Sunday as first or Monday as first?
[19:54] <elfy> good job I'm not doing that - my week starts on a Thursday :(
[19:54] <Letozaf_> balloons, if I open calendar app with autopilot launch the first day of weed is Monday, but let me try agian just to be sure
[19:55] <Letozaf_> elfy, :D
[19:55] <balloons> elfy, :-P Nice!
[19:55] <balloons> Letozaf_, yes confirm it. It should be reading it correctly from the app. The app itself should be reading the locale
[19:56] <Letozaf_> balloons, that's why I'm a bit confused as the app launched with autopilot launch is right, the first day of week is monday
[19:56] <balloons> ok.. heh.
[19:56] <balloons> that's good, so the app is getting it correct :-)
[19:56] <Letozaf_> balloons, but firstDay = self.week_view.firstDay.datetime is wrong
[19:57] <Letozaf_> balloons, it should be 20 jan instead it's 19
[19:57] <Letozaf_> balloons, so the test fails with MismatchError: 19 != 20
[19:57] <balloons> right.. the dayStart comes from the qml file, have a look
[19:58] <balloons> property var firstDay: dayStart.weekStart(Qt.locale().firstDayOfWeek);
[19:58] <balloons> oops..
[19:58] <balloons> property var dayStart: new Date()
[19:58] <balloons> we need the firstDay property
[19:58] <balloons> ohh, lol.. I thought it was wrong for a second.. looks ojk
[19:59]  * Letozaf_ is looking at qml file
[20:00] <balloons> WeekView.qml
[20:00] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes thanks
[20:00] <balloons> brb
[20:05] <balloons> kk
[20:06] <Letozaf_> balloons, I'm not so good in QML so I'm googling a bit :P
[20:07] <balloons> hehe
[20:07] <balloons> Letozaf_, I don't think the answer is in the qml.. the firstDay is set according to the locale
[20:07] <balloons> we should make sure it's telling us Monday in the test.. if so, then the test isn't working properly
[20:08] <Letozaf_> balloons,  I saw that in the test the value of firstDay is 19 instead of 20, but have to find out why now
[20:09] <balloons> add a couple debug prints, see what values we get from the qml, etc
[20:10] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes I did it but maybe I will try again to see if I can find the reason why the test fails
[20:11] <Letozaf_> balloons, now I'm quite sure I'm doing it right :P
[20:25] <balloons> chihchun_afk, i greet you nonetheless. hola mi amigo
[20:30] <balloons> Letozaf_, so what have you learned?
[20:30] <Letozaf_> balloons, the fistDay property contains 19 jan (I used print to get it's value) : self.week_view.firstDay.datetime it must come from qml -  I am trying to figure out how to transform the value<PHONE_NUMBER> in the property (got this with autopilot vis) in a formatted date
[20:30] <balloons><PHONE_NUMBER> sounds like a unix timstamp
[20:30] <Letozaf_> balloons, I was googling for that
[20:31] <balloons> Sun, 19 Jan 2014 23:00:00 GMT
[20:31] <Letozaf_> balloons, lol Sun, 19 Jan 2014 23:00:00 GMT was about to write it
[20:32] <balloons> :-) So basically everything looks correct then. The locale is telling us the week starts on Monday, but it doesn't
[20:32] <Letozaf_> balloons, I'm a bit confused as calendar app has the week displayed coreclty
[20:32] <Letozaf_> balloons, it starts on mon and ends on sun
[20:33] <balloons> ok, so let's peer into the qml the
[20:33] <Letozaf_> balloons, but the value of the property is wrong... :?
[20:33] <balloons> Letozaf_, well I mean it's not what we need
[20:33] <balloons> the qml might make further changes to it, so it's starting on Monday like it should
[20:34] <Letozaf_> balloons, oh! yes maybe
[20:34] <balloons> lol.. not that I see
[20:34]  * balloons was grasping at straws
[20:34] <balloons> ^^ there's an odd saying for you
[20:34] <Letozaf_> balloons, :D yes
[20:34] <Letozaf_> balloons, love odd sayings
[20:35] <balloons> I was hoping the qml would have an answer, but it doesn't
[20:35] <balloons> so the locale returns Sunday as the first day, but it shows up properly as monday
[20:35] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes
[20:39] <balloons> I can't figure out why autopilot isn't working for me on my desktop.. ugh
[20:39] <Letozaf_> balloons, weekStart property is not the same as dayStart the first has<PHONE_NUMBER> the latter<PHONE_NUMBER>
[20:39] <Letozaf_> balloons, weekStart is in PathViewBase
[20:40] <Letozaf_> balloons, Sun, 12 Jan 2014 23:00:00 GMT  ?
[20:41] <Letozaf_> balloons, another sunday instead of monday
[20:41] <balloons> :-)
[20:45] <balloons> Letozaf_, I'm playing here: lhttps://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/ubuntu-calendar-app/debug-ap-tests/+merge/202691
[20:47]  * Letozaf_ is looking at it
[20:50] <Letozaf_> balloons, the other day autopilot also did not work for me... after some updates it started working again :O
[20:51] <balloons> it's only calendar.. I borked something somewhere.. there's a bad import but it doesn't make sense
[20:54] <Letozaf_> balloons, :(
[20:56] <balloons> oO narrowed it down :-
[20:57] <Letozaf_> balloons, I've found something weired too
[20:58] <Letozaf_> balloons, in the TimeLineHeader there's a label LUN (monday) but the date is Sun, 12 Jan 2014 23:00:00 GMT
[20:58] <Letozaf_> balloons, so label and date differ
[21:00] <Letozaf_> balloons, same on the other HeaderDateComponent, label LUN and date Sun, 19 Jan 2014 23:00:00 GMT
[21:02] <balloons> whoa, weird
[21:03] <Letozaf_> balloons, I am quite convinced something's wrong in the qml file, but cannot find where :(
[21:04] <balloons> Letozaf_,  if you believe it to be a bug, then let's file one
[21:04] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok I will
[21:10] <elfy> balloons: if you're using trusty and have a minute to spare on a game - try horizontally resizing sudoku if it's installed
[21:10] <elfy> then try it on a small screen :p
[21:11] <balloons> seems fine
[21:11] <elfy> mmm - might be Xubuntu issue then - can't resize it <--> at all
[21:11] <balloons> ugh.. yea, I can resize everything just fine here
[21:12] <balloons> my trusty is updated to today
[21:12] <elfy> mmm - that was worth mentioning then
[21:12] <elfy> mine too
[21:22] <Letozaf_> balloons, I reported bug 1271726
[21:22] <balloons> Letozaf_, I think I might have an insight into why this is
[21:23] <Letozaf_> balloons, the labels display 20 and MON but the date is Sun 19 Jan
[21:23] <balloons> Letozaf_, they are adding and subtracting days, but you see the datetime has a time value in it
[21:23] <balloons> might be the issue.. I wonder if a screenshot would be helpful?
[21:23] <balloons> it's a bit confusing I'd guess to explain
[21:23] <Letozaf_> balloons, sure I will attach one now
[21:24] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes quite difficult to explain
[21:38] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok added three screenshots hope  the "problem" is clearer now
[21:39] <balloons> Letozaf_, ohh that's perfect
[21:39] <Letozaf_> balloons, :D
[21:39] <balloons> Pretty clear to see the issue from the screenshots
[21:43] <balloons> Letozaf_, very good find. And it's confusing, heh
[21:43] <balloons> might help explain some of these weird errors I'm seeing
[21:43] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes it's confusing
[21:44] <Letozaf_> balloons, hope this helps also for your weired errors :)
[21:44] <balloons> well.. now as to good ole reminders app.. I'm guessing it's about time for you to say ciao
[21:45] <balloons> Letozaf_, here's an example veebers did of mocking: https://code.launchpad.net/~veebers/stock-ticker-mobile-app/mock-server-for-testing/+merge/194971
[21:45] <balloons> I might steal that for trying with reminders
[21:45] <Letozaf_> balloons, cool thanks I will take a look at it
[21:46] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes sounds like it will be useful for reminders-app too
[21:47] <veebers> balloons: that reminds me, have we had any luck communicating with the stock-ticker-app dev?
[21:47] <Letozaf_> balloons, going to bed now :P be back tomorrow
[21:47] <balloons> Letozaf_, buonasera
[21:48] <Letozaf_> balloons, buonanotte :)
[21:48] <balloons> veebers, :-) not since before xmas.. It's not a primary core app, so there's less focus on it
[21:49] <veebers> balloons: ok. It sucks that there is that MR still sitting there for it, but I don't really have time to do anything about it _right_ now. I'll try and chase it up in the near future
[21:49] <balloons> veebers, I'll ping again. Still, the work you've done on it I think will be useful into solving the issues we have with reminders and weather
[21:49] <veebers> balloons: also, hi how are you :-)
[21:49] <veebers> is this regarding a mock server?
[21:49] <balloons> so if you do have time, I'd suggest putting it into mocking the server for weather or reminders :-p
[21:49] <balloons> veebers, yes
[21:50] <balloons> weather is moving to TWC api, and there's a branch with some work done for it
[21:50] <balloons> but in general, we don't have a good solution for mocking yet
[21:50] <balloons> I've been holding your MR as an example to look at when I needed to start
[21:50] <veebers> balloons: right, I took the example of the server mock from another app (can't remember the name right now) but there has been talk about making a generic mockable server that we can re-use
[21:50] <balloons> that day is more or less here
[21:51] <veebers> balloons: ah ok. I'm pretty sure it's something we intend to discuss during the sprint. But that's not today :-)
[21:51] <balloons> veebers, elopio and I ran into the same issue with needing to setup an online account as part of a test
[21:51] <balloons> so it's another piece in the mocking puzzle
[21:52] <balloons> yes, it might take the sprint.. but likely I'll have some examples good or bad before then heh
[21:55] <veebers> balloons: ah, sweet
[22:05] <elopio> veebers, balloons: about sharing a base fake http server, the scope devs told me that the code we would share is so small that it's better to copy it. Most things are specific to the real server we are mocking.
[22:05] <elopio> here's the one I like the most so far:
[22:05] <elopio> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-hackers/unity-scope-click/trunk/files/head:/src/tests/autopilot/unityclickscope/
[22:05] <elopio> comes with a nice fixture to start it during set up :D
[22:05] <veebers> elopio: sounds awesome
[22:06] <veebers> perhaps we need to promote it as an example other people can work off
[22:08] <elopio> veebers, balloons: maybe the three of us can come up with a perfect server example, and balloons can blog about it.
[22:09] <elopio> whatever balloons says in his blog is holy word.
[22:09] <balloons> elopio, veebers we also have an app developer week with presentations :-)
[22:09] <balloons> elopio, lol.. yes I need to post about a few of these toys
[22:10] <elopio> balloons: hey, when's the developer week?
[22:11] <elopio> I would like to talk about a domain specific language for user acceptance tests.
[22:11] <balloons> elopio, oO
[22:12] <balloons> zzz.. I JUST now realized the week is the same time as our sprint in oakland
[22:42] <LucaBiolcati> Hello!!
[22:56] <balloons> LucaBiolcati, hello
[22:56] <LucaBiolcati> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/WhoWeAre#preview
[22:57] <LucaBiolcati> balloons, where is the error?
[22:58] <balloons> LucaBiolcati, oO.. I'll have a look
[22:59] <balloons> LucaBiolcati, all fixed
[23:00] <balloons> LucaBiolcati, you were missing the last column