[11:33] <MrChrisDruif> Community Council meeting over?
[11:34] <soren> There's been no meeting in here for at least 24 hours.
[11:35] <MrChrisDruif> According to the Fridge there should be a meeting now <_<"
[11:36] <soren> Indeed.
[11:36] <soren> However, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda says 11 UTC.
[11:36] <soren> That's in 24 minutes.
[11:36] <soren> Lesson: Don't believe everything you read.
[11:37] <czajkowski> timezones are a large pita
[11:38] <soren> Timezones aren't that bad. People are :)
[11:38] <czajkowski> soren: in reading calendars :)
[11:39] <MrChrisDruif> Google calendar fail :)
[12:01] <dholbach> popey, sabdfl: is it the three of us?
[12:01] <sabdfl> looks like it
[12:02]  * jussi waves and watches from the sidelines.
[12:02] <dholbach> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda we have one agenda item, as pleia2 is very likely sleeping
[12:02] <dholbach> is Nathan Bahn around?
[12:03] <sabdfl> whois nathan-bahn
[12:03] <sabdfl> erk
[12:03] <sabdfl> doesn't look like it
[12:03] <sabdfl> he's got "Revisit" but no other commentary
[12:04] <sabdfl> has there been a big "save sounder" movement?
[12:04] <czajkowski> so last meeting they didnt know it was on the agenda, this time it's on the agenda but non of the sounder folks are here :s
[12:04] <MrChrisDruif> What?
[12:04] <nigelb> There was a big #blame popey movement though :)
[12:04] <dholbach> AFAIK there's been a google group set up
[12:05] <popey> There's a been some OT on -users
[12:05] <popey> more than usual, which I kinda expected
[12:06] <popey> and a few snide comments directed at me, but nothing worth worrying about
[12:06] <dholbach> I personally don't see a reason in the current discussion to change my opinion about the decision
[12:06] <sabdfl> agreed
[12:06] <dholbach> and with nobody here to discuss the point, I think it's safe to move on
[12:07] <sabdfl> this is two rounds, it's sufficient.
[12:07] <sabdfl> done
[12:07] <popey> cool.
[12:07] <dholbach> Does anybody have any other business?
[12:07] <sabdfl> popey, thanks for your broad shoulders and thick skin :-)
[12:07] <popey> np
[12:07] <dholbach> I just have a quick question for popey and sabdfl: did you get my mail about the google doc that I set up to help organise the CC discussions?
[12:08] <dholbach> at UDS pleia2 and Technoviking told me they hadn't gotten the mail
[12:08] <sabdfl> haven't read it dholbach
[12:08] <popey> uhm
[12:08] <dholbach> ok, I'm happy to re-send it
[12:08] <dholbach> I'll do it later on
[12:08]  * sladen waves just incase anyone from the sounder camp claims that nobody knew/nobody could attend
[12:08] <sabdfl> dholbach: looks like i didn't get it either
[12:08] <popey> I honestly do read your mail, but don't recall that one dholbach
[12:08] <dholbach> alright - thanks - I'll take care of it later on
[12:09] <dholbach> that's all from me - does anyone else have any business to discuss?
[12:09] <popey> sabdfl: i have a question if you dont mind.
[12:09] <popey> some of the press have picked up on comments you made during your keynote at UDS
[12:09] <popey> specifically about the copyright assignment
[12:10] <popey> wondered if you had a timeline for opening that discussion up ?
[12:12] <sabdfl> i will blog about it asap
[12:12] <sabdfl> just got a lot to juggle right now
[12:12] <popey> ok, ta
[12:12] <sabdfl> also, been invited to a panel in berlin at Guadec on the subject
[12:12]  * popey looks when guadec is
[12:12] <sladen> week after the week after Debconf
[12:12] <sabdfl> feedback has been positive that folk are glad to see someone at least discussing the rationale from Canonical's perspective
[12:12] <sabdfl> long overdue
[12:14] <dholbach> popey, is your question answered?
[12:14] <popey> yes
[12:14] <dholbach> awesome
[12:14] <dholbach> I'm happy to write the team report, it looks like it's going to be a short one ;-)
[12:14] <popey> \o/
[12:14] <sabdfl> thanks all!
[12:14] <dholbach> meeting adjourned then :)
[12:14] <sabdfl> great UDS
[12:15] <dholbach> thanks and have a great day everyone
[12:15] <popey> thanks for coming sladen :)
[16:51] <zul> do do do
[17:00] <zul> who is running the meeting today?
[17:00] <zul> 1 2 3 not it ;)
[17:00]  * smb is trying to run away... :-P
[17:01] <SpamapS> Unless smoser forgot to change the page.. he's up. :)
[17:01] <SpamapS> smoser: ping!
[17:01] <Daviey> Hello!
[17:02]  * Daviey raises a smoser ping.
[17:02] <Daviey> bah
[17:02] <Daviey> zul, If smoser doesn't arrive shortly are you okay to drive?  (next in list)
[17:02] <smoser> i am most certainly not up
[17:02] <SpamapS> right
[17:02] <smoser> hold on.
[17:02] <Daviey> smoser, Hmm... are you sure?
[17:02] <SpamapS> smoser is starting his 6 month sru rotation
[17:02] <SpamapS> no meetings for him. ;-)
[17:02] <zul> i aint up for it either :)
[17:02] <smoser> I last did it on 2011-04-19
[17:02] <SpamapS> are you guys forgetting to update the page?
[17:03] <zul> probably..
[17:03] <Daviey> We didn't have a meeting for the last two weeks, and before that kirkland drove... right?
[17:03] <SpamapS> ok well in the interest of getting on with it, I'll get on with it
[17:03] <SpamapS> #startmeeting
[17:03] <Daviey> which looks like smoser is next, or am i mistaken?
[17:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:03. The chair is SpamapS.
[17:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:03] <Daviey> SpamapS, good stuff.
[17:03] <SpamapS> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[17:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[17:03] <SpamapS> there were none, moving on
[17:04] <SpamapS> [TOPIC] Oneiric Development
[17:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Development
[17:04] <Daviey> Hello!
[17:04] <Daviey> No doubt everyone is still recovering from the rather successful week at UDS in Budapest last week.
[17:04] <Daviey> Whilst the sessions are still fresh in our mind, we need to turn to adding work items to the blueprints.  We should strive to have a first draft of blueprints done by the end of the week.  Some blueprints do not yet have a drafter assigned.  Between myself and Robbie, these will be allocated amongst the team with a a best effort of fair and logical choice.
[17:04] <smoser> (note, i did not send out meeting minutes after 2011-04-19, or add a meeitn page. i will do that now)
[17:04] <SpamapS> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric
[17:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric
[17:04] <Daviey> I will send a mail outlining the hows and whys following the meeting.
[17:04] <SpamapS> Totally worthless right now, but thought I'd share.
[17:04] <Daviey> i know smoser will cry if i paste it here.
[17:05] <Daviey> and when not spec'ing... merge, merge, merge!
[17:06] <smoser> if only we had services that could take a paste and turn it into a link.
[17:06] <Daviey> But blueprints our the priority right now :)
[17:06] <smoser> or a tool that could do that from stdin
[17:06] <SpamapS> and when not merging, triage! We're ridiculously behind
[17:06] <Daviey> smoser, is that possible?
[17:06] <Daviey> SpamapS, yes - well caught.
[17:06] <SpamapS> Anything else?
[17:06] <Daviey> That is all for now.  Thanks.
[17:07] <SpamapS> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
[17:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
[17:07] <zul> SpamapS: it was more ridiculous yesterday morning
[17:07] <SpamapS> zul: yes nice job hammering it down :)
[17:07] <zul> and hallyn as well
[17:08] <SpamapS> Since we were all at UDS .. anybody else going to be somewhere or think we should be somewhere in the next month or so?
[17:09] <Daviey> not here, thank you :)
[17:09] <zul> at home resting our livers
[17:09] <SpamapS> Alright then
[17:09] <SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:09] <SpamapS> hggdh: good morning!
[17:09] <hggdh> good morning
[17:10] <hggdh> we are still working on the changes for this cycle, so input on what we should test for is welcome
[17:10] <SpamapS> hggdh: I'd be curious to hear how the build-time testing PPA that you had worked out last cycle.
[17:10] <SpamapS> Meant to ask at UDS
[17:11] <hggdh> it is there ;-) but we are not running a lot of builds
[17:11] <Daviey> hggdh, Is it documented anywhere?
[17:11] <hggdh> what we are looking for is to add in more packages with build-time checks (like, say, coreutils)
[17:11] <hggdh> just a sec and I will get the current list
[17:12] <SpamapS> I get a failure for pkgbinarymangler in my email quite often
[17:12] <hggdh> yes -- have to talk with pitti about that, been in the backburner
[17:12] <SpamapS> hggdh: shouldn't we be opening bugs for any failures we see?
[17:13] <hggdh> we can -- perhaps we should, actually
[17:13] <hggdh> so I will start doing it
[17:13] <Daviey> hggdh, \o/
[17:13] <SpamapS> I would almost think we could automate it, except we're limited in what recipes can do.
[17:13] <hggdh> I also have to update it for building on oneiric
[17:14] <SpamapS> Cool, well anyway, anything else to report? Otherwise I think we'll move on.
[17:14]  * Daviey ^5's hggdh
[17:15] <hggdh> move on, dear sir, move on. Just please note that we need more packages on the daily build
[17:15] <SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[17:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[17:15] <smb> good tod
[17:15] <smb> I would have two questions
[17:16] <smb> One, to smoser, I was digging for the srpm for a amazon ami kernel. Does the get_reference_source command ring a bell to you?
[17:16] <smoser> smb, yeah, i gave you that in the etherpad
[17:16] <smoser> thats what you need to use
[17:16] <smoser> that will get you an SRPM
[17:17] <smb> smoser, damn missed that there somehow
[17:17] <smb> Ok thanks
[17:17] <smb> The other thing is iscsitarget
[17:17] <Daviey> erk.
[17:18] <smb> Currently there is two versions one ubuntu specific driver in the kernel and a dkms package. The kernel version currently does not compile (maybe got a fix there) and the dkms likely will fail on install
[17:18] <smb> Probably first thing to ask, do we have hardware to test this thing?
[17:18] <adam_g> which driver are we talkin about? ietd or the newer upstream generic target framework?
[17:19] <smb> Second would be whether it being a dkms module would be sufficient, so we could drop the kernel one
[17:19] <smb> iscsi_trgt.ko
[17:19] <SpamapS> can't it be tested using tgt ?
[17:20] <hggdh> (for the record: daily build for Natty: libvirt postgresql-8.4 mysql-5.1 openldap php5 python2.7 coreutils clamav cups gcc gdb pkgbinarymangler pkg-create-dbgsym)
[17:20]  * smb was hoping the server team knew how to test. :-P
[17:20] <SpamapS> hggdh: ty
[17:20] <adam_g> you can test using any block device/LV or raw file within a virtual machine
[17:21] <smoser> smb, just forwarded you mention of this: https://silverline.librato.com/blog/main/EC2_Users_Should_be_Cautious_When_Booting_Ubuntu_10_04_AMIs
[17:21] <smb> adam_g, Hm, ok. Maybe there is some simple howto for the setup...?
[17:21]  * Daviey fears adam_g just signed up to help test it :)
[17:21] <smb> smoser, ookay...
[17:21] <adam_g> smb: ive worked with it a bunch in the past, its very easy to setup (assuming we're talking about the same iscsi target)
[17:21] <adam_g> sure, i can help
[17:22] <zul> wait i thought tgt got promoted to main or something
[17:22] <SpamapS> Filename: pool/main/t/tgt/tgt_1.0.13-0ubuntu2_amd64.deb
[17:22] <smb> That would be cool
[17:22]  * zul shuts up
[17:22] <Daviey> adam_g / smb  (http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/ServeriSCSIRoot/KVMExample)
[17:23] <SpamapS> smb: I had a general question about bugs that we think might be kernel related..
[17:23] <smb> zul, package seems in universe for oneiric still
[17:23] <smb> SpamapS, Ok
[17:23] <smb> Daviey, Thanks
[17:23]  * RoAkSoAx thinkgs that adam_g just signed up to write documentation and test it :)
[17:23] <SpamapS> smb: thus far I've just added a task against the 'linux' source package and left it as New. Does that work within the kernel triaging framework? Like, will it ever be seen that way?
[17:24] <smb> SpamapS, I started to use a tag to make them searchable for me and give JFo some hints. Reminds me that I need to tell him (and you now) which exactöly
[17:25] <adam_g> yes, i can help with iscsi testing/docs. im still a bit unclear as to which target we're using (im the new guy), since there a few
[17:25] <SpamapS> smb: if you don't have the tag list handy, you can send it to me offline later and I'll include it in the minutes.
[17:26] <smb> SpamapS, Here it is, I user kernel-server
[17:26] <smb> used even
[17:26] <SpamapS> adam_g: you can always assert which one you think we *should* be using.
[17:26] <SpamapS> smb: ty
[17:26] <SpamapS> ok, moving on?
[17:26] <adam_g> SpamapS: certainly
[17:26] <smb> Ok, I think I got a lot to work on
[17:27] <smb> adam_g, Will come back to you in case I need more info. :)
[17:27] <SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[17:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[17:27] <adam_g> smb: yeah, id like to find out which the kernel team prefers, as theres been a lot of work in this area upstream the last couple of kernels
[17:28] <Daviey> For community...
[17:28] <Daviey> Just a note that peer reviews of blueprints will be appreciated.
[17:29] <hggdh> and test proposals ;-)
[17:29] <Daviey> Yes!
[17:29] <zul> and SRUs
[17:29] <Daviey> and ensemble recipies :)
[17:29] <SpamapS> Pretty much anything short of insults to our mothers will be appreciated. :)
[17:29] <Daviey> This cycle we should see more interaction, and areas of oppertunity.
[17:29] <zul> we are that easy :)
[17:30] <SpamapS> I think we should also start thinking about acknowledging just how much of the Debian Development effort is centered around servers, and therefore, part of our community.
[17:31] <SpamapS> Anything else?
[17:31] <Daviey> not here.
[17:31] <SpamapS> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[17:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[17:32]  * Daviey waves to adam_g
[17:32] <SpamapS> Great UDS everybody!
[17:32] <SpamapS> hallyn_: you were missed.
[17:32] <zul> next time ill tape the demo
[17:32] <Daviey> adam_g is the newest member of the team, and is shortly going to show us how awesome he is.
[17:32]  * SpamapS covers his eyes
[17:32] <Daviey> zul, it was recorded.
[17:32] <adam_g> hi
[17:32] <adam_g> :)
[17:32] <zul> Daviey: seriously?
[17:33] <Daviey> zul, yeah, i thought they all were.
[17:33] <SpamapS> All plenaries are taped
[17:33] <Daviey> look out on youtube.
[17:33] <zul> oh...shoot :)
[17:33] <Daviey>  http://www.youtube.com/user/ubuntudevelopers <-- keep and eye out for our own zul
[17:33] <SpamapS> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
[17:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
[17:34] <SpamapS> Tuesday, May 24th 2011 16:00 UTC
[17:34] <SpamapS> See you all there!
[17:34] <smoser> just an fyi, was reported to have been on my flight home.
[17:34] <smoser> err... "JAMES PAGE" was reported to have beeen on that flight.
[17:34] <SpamapS> smoser: REALLY
[17:34] <adam_g> confirmed
[17:34] <SpamapS> OMG
[17:34] <SpamapS> Thanks everybody
[17:34] <SpamapS> #endmeeting
[17:34] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:34.
[17:35] <Daviey> thanks o/
[21:04] <paultag> Hey guys
[21:04] <paultag> I  guess we should meet or something
[21:04] <itnet7> hey there!
[21:04] <paultag> :)
[21:04] <paultag> #startmeeting
[21:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:04. The chair is paultag.
[21:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:04] <paultag> ok ok ok, agenda time
[21:05] <paultag> Nothing on the a-friend-a.
[21:05] <paultag> There's a bit from last week WRT LoCo SWAG, is the most fine Mrs. czajkowski in?
[21:06] <paultag> or if leogg or itnet7, you guys have anything
[21:06] <itnet7> Hold on, I need to get a quick link
[21:07] <leogg> I have nothing
[21:07] <leogg> anything new on the swag front?
[21:07] <itnet7> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-lococouncil-plans
[21:07] <paultag> ah, super
[21:07] <paultag> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-lococouncil-plans
[21:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-lococouncil-plans
[21:08] <itnet7> While at UDS-0 I just added this blue print for our cycle's plans
[21:08] <paultag> Oh, my ISO code shin-dig
[21:08] <paultag> itnet7: you rock my socks
[21:08] <itnet7> we were asked to do a couple of items, so I had added the ones that I was aware of
[21:09] <paultag> itnet7: awesome. I added that bit about ISO codes
[21:09] <paultag> anyone want to chat about that?
[21:09] <itnet7> Yeah, I noticed that
[21:09] <paultag> unclean URLs bug me :)
[21:09] <paultag> I should not have to go to google to find a loco's URL :)
[21:09] <paultag> (or the LD, I'm lazy)
[21:09] <itnet7> I do then we should do that... but is there a way to easily migrate them once they have ppa's?
[21:10] <itnet7> Or rather if they already have PPA's for the team, I mean?
[21:10] <paultag> itnet7: I have no clue. We should talk with LP about how we can practically set up a migration (and a forward if they could) and make sure the LD can handle it
[21:10] <itnet7> Sounds good to me
[21:11] <paultag> leogg: whatcha think?
[21:11] <leogg> paultag, yep, I agree
[21:11] <paultag> radical
[21:12] <paultag> [ACTION] Let's talk with LP about getting LoCo Team team-page's URLs together
[21:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Let's talk with LP about getting LoCo Team team-page's URLs together
[21:12] <paultag> good 'nuf for goverment work
[21:13] <highvoltage> hello
[21:13]  * paultag waves to highvoltage
[21:14] <paultag> highvoltage: any ideas? We're just sitting here :)
[21:14] <paultag> figure they pay us by the hour
[21:14] <highvoltage> I just kind of stumbled in and I'm not even sure which meeting this is
[21:14] <paultag> highvoltage: LoCoCoUnCiL
[21:15] <paultag> It's a ghost-town in here right now
[21:15] <highvoltage> ideas for the LoCo Team team-page specifically?
[21:15] <highvoltage> I guess they could all be members of a group called loco-teams
[21:15] <paultag> ~locoteams :)
[21:16] <paultag> there's also ~locoteams-approved, and loco.ubuntu.com
[21:16] <highvoltage> otherwise I'm vaguely planning on doing some loco stuff in Sherbrooke
[21:16] <paultag> highvoltage: killer!
[21:16] <stgraber> highvoltage: yay!
[21:16] <highvoltage> currently we're kind of dead loco wise and that needs fixing
[21:16]  * paultag waves to stgraber
[21:16] <stgraber> hey paultag
[21:16] <paultag> highvoltage: let us/me know if you need help with anything at all
[21:16] <highvoltage> stgraber: don't say yay so quick, I'm thinking of a part at our apartment or something when I buy the bbq :)
[21:16] <highvoltage> *party
[21:17] <paultag> please tell me you're IRCing from the same room
[21:17] <highvoltage> paultag: almost, he's in the room next to me
[21:17] <stgraber> nope, I'm in my office and he's in the open space
[21:17] <paultag> hahaha
[21:17] <stgraber> so a good 20s walk from each other
[21:17] <highvoltage> usually it's less than that though
[21:17] <paultag> or a nice brisk shout
[21:18]  * highvoltage hasn't had an ubuntu bbq in a long time
[21:18] <paultag> OK, who's doing logs?
[21:18] <paultag> 1,2,3, NOTME!
[21:18] <highvoltage> well it will be a gas bbq, so no logs
[21:19] <highvoltage> :p
[21:19] <stgraber> :)
[21:19] <paultag> itnet7: leogg: whoever says NOTME first gets to avoid log work :)
[21:19] <paultag> highvoltage: oh you! :)
[21:19] <itnet7> not me
[21:19] <leogg> not me
[21:19] <itnet7> :-)
[21:19] <leogg> ;)
[21:19] <paultag> highvoltage: I just got that as soon as I typed it :)
[21:19] <paultag> Ahh! Look at that :)
[21:19] <highvoltage> paultag: oh me?
[21:20] <paultag> OK, anyone have serious loco-council work?
[21:20] <paultag> highvoltage: who me?
[21:20] <highvoltage> 16:24 < paultag> highvoltage: oh you! :)
[21:20] <paultag> could'nt be!
[21:20] <paultag> says who?
[21:20] <paultag> Going once!
[21:20] <paultag> Twice!
[21:20] <head_victim> sold?
[21:21] <paultag> Thrice!
[21:21] <paultag> Sold!
[21:21] <paultag> #endmeeting
[21:21] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:21.
[21:21] <paultag> highvoltage: P.S. -- ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a96TmrxZRXY
[21:21] <paultag> wait, I did not watch that, I hope it's right
[21:21] <paultag> wait, that's so not it
[21:21] <itnet7> highvoltage: was good to see you again! and you to stgraber !!
[21:21] <itnet7> of course
[21:22] <paultag> I feel like such a lamer, that link is no good
[21:22] <paultag> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C6cIpkcwdw <-- that's a better one (but not the original)
[21:22] <highvoltage> itnet7: likewise!
[21:22] <stgraber> itnet7: was good seeing you too! had a good flight back home?
[21:23] <highvoltage> (although next time we should properly hang out)
[21:23] <itnet7> stgraber: very good
[21:23] <itnet7> highvoltage: yes, especially if you're able to come to Orlando!!
[21:24] <highvoltage> yeah!
[21:25] <paultag> Oh, my life rules right now. Grades posted (I did well!), new episode of House is on Hulu, and I've got an app in mind :)
[21:25] <paultag> time to zone out
[21:26]  * highvoltage is also watching House tonight
[21:26] <paultag> highvoltage: ^5
[21:26] <highvoltage> paultag: ^5!
[21:26] <paultag> :)
[21:26]  * DraZoro just started watching house yesterday
[21:27] <paultag> DraZoro: how awesome is it?
[21:27] <stgraber> highvoltage: oh right, plenty of TV shows tonight (I didn't watch any of what was on TV yesterday yet)
[21:27] <paultag> DraZoro: the only downside is that you start calling people idiots when you're making a point
[21:27] <highvoltage> season 4 + 5 ftw. I want to re-watch it some time
[21:27] <DraZoro> paultag: Dr House is very smart
[21:27] <paultag> highvoltage: truth
[21:27] <paultag> DraZoro: :)
[21:27] <DraZoro> paultag : I just started with Season 5 ....
[21:27] <highvoltage> if you combine the worst attributes of paultag, myself and stgraber, then you get House
[21:28] <paultag> DraZoro: there are different people in season 5 then in season 1 :)
[21:28] <highvoltage> (well he gets the clever parts too)
[21:28] <DraZoro> paultag: I must get the collection
[21:28] <paultag> highvoltage: Who's the one addicted to vicoden?
[21:28] <paultag> DraZoro: for sure!
[21:29] <DraZoro> This is nice to see highvoltage and paultag in one room ....:)
[21:29] <paultag> DraZoro: we're bffs
[21:29] <paultag> i decay, my bff highvoltage
[21:29] <highvoltage> paultag: I don't know, but you can take the vicoden if I can take cuddy
[21:29] <paultag> highvoltage: it's cool, I got 13
[21:30] <highvoltage> deal
[21:30] <paultag> :)
[21:31] <paultag> alright, well that about does it. I'll be over in locoteams if anyone wants to keep this going :)
[21:31] <highvoltage> DraZoro: nice? more like.. dangerous. all of IRC could melt down
[21:31] <highvoltage> yes, nice locoteams meeting, paultag!
[21:31] <stgraber> that was an interesting locoteam meeting :)
[21:31] <paultag> highvoltage: hahaha
[21:31] <paultag> highvoltage: Oh gee, thanks! :)
[21:32] <stgraber> *lococouncil
[21:32] <paultag> stgraber: this is why czajkowski hates letting me chair
[21:32] <paultag> :)
[21:32] <stgraber> hehe
[21:32] <DraZoro> highvoltage : Yeah
[21:33] <paultag> cat - > Freenode/#ubuntu-locoteams
[21:33] <DraZoro> paultag : I tried to read the code for fgdesk then I notice my kunfu on c++ is very basic.
[21:34] <DraZoro> I still have a lot to learn ....
[21:34] <paultag> DraZoro: it's hard to read because it's some of the worst code I've written in my life :)
[21:34] <paultag> DraZoro: it "works", but not nearly as good as I'd like, the Marble-widget Qt stuff is not really designed to be a GPS
[21:34] <DraZoro> paultag: I am getting there
[21:35] <paultag> DraZoro: :) let me know if I can help
[21:36] <DraZoro> paultag: I have not yet compiled it ...I still have to install libqt4-dev or qt3-dev-tools
[21:36] <DraZoro> paultag: Just that internet is very limited for me ...but I will make a plan
[21:36] <paultag> DraZoro: aye! :) you have to run fg with an enable telnet feature (it uses the socket to talk flight gear with the app)
[21:36] <MrChrisDruif> LoCo Council meeting?
[21:37] <paultag> DraZoro: I was planning to fix it up after I get some time :)
[21:37] <xardas008> MrChrisDruif: is over now
[21:37] <paultag> MrChrisDruif: it was :)
[21:37] <paultag> MrChrisDruif: have something you need? We have the bar until 5:00
[21:37] <paultag> (my time)
[21:37] <DraZoro> paultag: Let work more on my coding .....I will be done with exams on 24 May ...from there I will dedicate +- 10 hours on ubuntu work per day
[21:37] <DraZoro> paultag: If I work hard I might be fixing it :)
[21:37] <paultag> DraZoro: don't burn out! :) -- if you end up fixing up fgdash, I'd be so stoked :)
[21:38]  * DraZoro is happy his fluxbox is get better
[21:38] <MrChrisDruif> paultag; I'll assume that is about 20 mins ;) Anyhow, was there any progress in the Dutch LoCo as far as you know?
[21:38] <paultag> Oh wait, whoh
[21:38] <paultag> fbdesk, I thought you meant my little app fgdash
[21:38] <paultag> oh, right right. fbdesk is confusing too, but I did not write that :)
[21:38] <DraZoro> paultag: I mean fgdash
[21:39] <paultag> Oh, awesome awesome :)
[21:39] <paultag> DraZoro: I'm glad fluxbox is rocking for you
[21:39] <paultag> MrChrisDruif: humm.
[21:39] <paultag> MrChrisDruif: let me go through my records for anything, one sec
[21:39] <DraZoro> paultag : Yeah just have to configure urxvt-unicode to show colours ....
[21:40] <MrChrisDruif> paultag; I've got time, next meeting is mine...well, of the UBT Wiki FG ;)
[21:40] <DraZoro> paultag: I get used to this stuff of reading and following manuals
[21:40] <paultag> MrChrisDruif: yes, and it's in great shape. We had a bit of a bump when we ignored a mail for about 4 months, but we tried to get back
[21:40] <paultag> MrChrisDruif: sense is doing a great job
[21:40] <paultag> DraZoro: aye! :)
[21:40] <paultag> MrChrisDruif: Oh, awesome!!
[21:40] <paultag> MrChrisDruif: I'll stick around for it (and if you need the place early, we're not doing anything)
[21:40] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, good to hear. Any notice about when we might be an approved LoCo again?
[21:41] <paultag> MrChrisDruif: We've recieved no application yet, but sense mentioned waiting until the new structure is in place
[21:41] <MrChrisDruif> Meh, mail etc said 9 PM UTC, so we're still cool
[21:41] <paultag> MrChrisDruif: which I support totally
[21:41] <DraZoro> paultag: There more I get back to the code for fgdash there more I figure out I am still in level 1
[21:41]  * DraZoro hopes will pass a patch soon to paultag
[21:41] <paultag> DraZoro: fgdash can be confusing because it uses so much Qt
[21:41] <paultag> DraZoro: please!!! :)
[21:41] <paultag> people have no idea how much I *LOVE* patches
[21:41] <paultag> they make my day
[21:42] <DraZoro> paultag : I know better
[21:43] <paultag> :P
[21:47] <MrChrisDruif> But thanks for the lowdown paultag :)
[21:47] <MrChrisDruif> Made the LoCo happy ;)
[21:48] <paultag> sure thing :)
[21:48] <paultag> MrChrisDruif: keep on rocking, you guys have always been a kickass bunch
[21:48] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks, I never knew that :)
[21:49] <paultag> :)
[21:52] <UndiFineD> .. in a free world
[21:52] <MrChrisDruif> There is no need for money ;)
[21:55] <UndiFineD> I love neill young for that song
[22:00] <MrChrisDruif> Everyone in for the UBT Wiki FG meeting?
[22:00] <paultag> o7
[22:01] <xardas008> ay
[22:01] <head_victim> Morning
[22:01] <UndiFineD> #startmeeting
[22:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:01. The chair is UndiFineD.
[22:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[22:01] <UndiFineD> hello everyone, who is here ?
[22:02]  * head_victim waves
[22:02] <xardas008> me
[22:02] <AndrewMC> me
[22:02] <UndiFineD> and not MrChrisDruif
[22:02]  * MrChrisDruif me
[22:02] <UndiFineD> :P
[22:02] <coalwater> im just gonna see how a meeting is like lol :D
[22:02] <UndiFineD> #topic New members
[22:02] <MrChrisDruif> A single /me doesn't work
[22:02] <MrChrisDruif> <_<"
[22:02] <paultag>    [TOPIC] MrChrisDruif
[22:02] <UndiFineD> heh
[22:03] <paultag> #topic is nothing :)
[22:03] <MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; it's [TOPIC] New members
[22:03] <paultag> Oh sorry, UndiFineD
[22:03] <paultag> my fauly
[22:03] <paultag> sed s/y/t/g
[22:03] <UndiFineD> we have 3 new members: Chris Druif [[MrChrisDruif]] , Jens Leineweber [[NRWlion]] and Joseph James Mills [[bobweaver]]
[22:04] <MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; Topic hasn't changed
[22:04] <UndiFineD> [TOPIC] New members
[22:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  New members
[22:04] <UndiFineD> we have 3 new members: Chris Druif [[MrChrisDruif]] , Jens Leineweber [[NRWlion]] and Joseph James Mills [[bobweaver]]
[22:04] <UndiFineD> welcome
[22:04] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks :)
[22:04] <xardas008> welcome
[22:04] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks again :)
[22:05] <UndiFineD> after some time in the dark, it is great to pick this team up again and get going
[22:05] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed, +1
[22:05] <UndiFineD> [TOPIC] tag pages
[22:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  tag pages
[22:06] <UndiFineD> One of our first and important works will be to tag pages
[22:06] <UndiFineD> as requested, find pages that can be deleted
[22:06] <MrChrisDruif> Like 8.04 and older?
[22:06] <head_victim> As long as it's not something that can be reworked to make it relevant
[22:07] <UndiFineD> yes, 8.04 went EOL last month
[22:07] <UndiFineD> so they should be save to be marked
[22:07] <MrChrisDruif> As long as there's no relevant info on it of course
[22:08] <eaespinoza0> I'm here
[22:08] <MrChrisDruif> Great, you've made it eaespinoza0
[22:08] <UndiFineD> however, any admins around ? we can not delete them immediatly, we still need to see if there is important information on them that needs to be rewritten for current and future page versions
[22:08] <MrChrisDruif> That reminds me...
[22:08] <head_victim> UndiFineD: I was looking at becoming and admin but not one yet
[22:09] <UndiFineD> well, with the big clean ups we have at hand, it might be safer not to have that right just yet
[22:10] <UndiFineD> other things we are looking for are for example: pages that mention shipit
[22:11] <xardas008> that should be easily done by searching for that keyword
[22:11] <UndiFineD> just comment those things out I think
[22:11] <MrChrisDruif> It should refer to the ShipIt page is what I am thinking. No need to duplicate data
[22:11] <xardas008> i found a paragraph just yesterday
[22:11] <MrChrisDruif> It still exist right? But no longer free afaik
[22:11] <UndiFineD> are there any more of those silly things everyne forgot about ?
[22:12] <head_victim> MrChrisDruif: shipit as it was is gone, you can buy them through the store is my understanding
[22:12] <UndiFineD> overall, there are +4000 community wiki pages
[22:12] <MrChrisDruif> How do you mean UndiFineD ?
[22:13] <UndiFineD> I do not expect them to be done overnight
[22:13] <UndiFineD> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UndiFineD/documentation
[22:13] <xardas008> ok shipit seem to be just 4 pages
[22:13] <UndiFineD> I did that in a week
[22:13] <MrChrisDruif> Just have them ready at next meeting ;)
[22:14] <eaespinoza0> may I ask what is shipit?
[22:14] <head_victim> UndiFineD: Tagging makes it easier for those of us who don't have lots of time to trawl to get in and make changes
[22:15] <DraZoro> eaespinoza0: A free ubuntu cd service which Conanical use to provide
[22:15] <UndiFineD> now what I started to do there was marking nearly every page with tags:  <<Include(Tag/ContentCleanup)>> <<Include(Tag/StyleCleanup)>> <<Include(Tag/NeedsExpansion)>>
[22:16] <UndiFineD> that is NOT the way, so I corrected myself
[22:16] <UndiFineD> instead we really should work here with the documentation team on creating and refreshing pages
[22:16] <UndiFineD> preferrable in mallard xml format
[22:17] <MrChrisDruif> So we do not mark the pages, but instead work on them?
[22:17] <MrChrisDruif> Work on those that have been tagged*
[22:18] <UndiFineD> well, you do not want to leave some 4000 pages all hooked up with tags that they need altering
[22:18] <UndiFineD> it is not very community friendly
[22:18] <MrChrisDruif> xD
[22:19] <MrChrisDruif> But what I said was correct?
[22:19] <UndiFineD> instead pick a (few) pages for reservation and rework them as part of the Summer of Documentation
[22:20] <UndiFineD> by placing those pages on the SoD list you mark them
[22:20] <UndiFineD> so yes MrChrisDruif
[22:21] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, I think that this is clear, maybe move to the next topic?
[22:21] <UndiFineD> any comments or questions ?
[22:21] <MrChrisDruif> And thanks for explaining UndiFineD :)
[22:22] <UndiFineD> [TOPIC] Style guide
[22:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Style guide
[22:22] <eaespinoza0> [AGREED]
[22:23] <UndiFineD> the documentation team is wanting to rework their style guide, great, Mallard has some default styles that are listed in some UDS blueprint that I forgot to copy
[22:24] <UndiFineD> I can look it up but would taks me some time
[22:24] <MrChrisDruif> eaespinoza0; Those [COMMAND] things are for the chair, you don't need to use them :)
[22:24] <eaespinoza0> ok
[22:24] <UndiFineD> I will send that off on the ML latoron if thats ok
[22:25] <xardas008> ok
[22:25] <MrChrisDruif> Sure I guess :)
[22:25] <eaespinoza0> what's ML latoron?
[22:25] <UndiFineD> it has some mentionings like copyright, email etc
[22:25] <MrChrisDruif> eaespinoza0; ML = Mailing-list
[22:25] <UndiFineD> eaespinoza0, Mailing list - later on
[22:25] <MrChrisDruif> Latoron should be later on
[22:26] <eaespinoza0> understand!
[22:26] <eaespinoza0> it's ok for me
[22:26] <UndiFineD> [TOPIC] Mallard xml
[22:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mallard xml
[22:26] <MrChrisDruif> But the doc team is changing/updating it's style?
[22:27] <UndiFineD> now my guess is most of us do not know what mallard is exactly or how to write it, even I who looked into it, would prefer some lessons
[22:27] <eaespinoza0> agree!
[22:27] <UndiFineD> MrChrisDruif, yes, but it is already pretty well defined, just not very visible
[22:28] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, so we can read all about it in the ML?
[22:28] <xardas008> i hear of it the first time
[22:28] <xardas008> but xml is not that difficult
[22:28] <UndiFineD> is there anyone who does know how to write mallard and could give us some help in that ?
[22:28] <MrChrisDruif> Because of the agenda I heard about it before today
[22:28] <UndiFineD> there is http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/index.html
[22:29] <MrChrisDruif> Maybe we could ask someone from #ubuntu-doc
[22:29] <head_victim> UndiFineD: so where does mallard sit in the scheme of things, I assumed, probably incorrectly, it was just a way of putting help files in Ubuntu but from what you're saying it is actually a way of writing wiki pages?
[22:31] <UndiFineD> head_victim, mallard is the chosen way of writing documentation, it can be converted to wiki or system documentation or ubuntu manual
[22:31] <MrChrisDruif> And what is the effect of mallard to the wiki pages? New syntax?
[22:31] <UndiFineD> so, once written, we can transform it to all of them
[22:31] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, so it's like a unified base for all three systems in place? :)
[22:31] <MrChrisDruif> *that are in place*
[22:32] <UndiFineD> I actually suggested, to hack on fckeditor that could produce mallard and moin wiki format
[22:32] <xardas008> seems that mallard uses internally the functionallity of xslt
[22:33] <UndiFineD> xardas008, might be, did not read into the finer details yet
[22:33] <MrChrisDruif> [LINK] http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/index.html
[22:33] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/index.html
[22:33] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks MootBot
[22:33] <xardas008> xslt is an xml processor for transforming so this was my first thought
[22:33] <UndiFineD> :)
[22:34] <UndiFineD> yeah that seems quite logic xardas008 , thanks
[22:34] <UndiFineD> well, I think we need to find ourselves a teacher here
[22:35] <xardas008> looks not very difficult on the first sight
[22:35]  * phillw will collar someone from the docs team to get in touch.
[22:35] <UndiFineD> jbicha ?
[22:35] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks phillw, I didn't want it on my plate just yet :)
[22:35] <phillw> is oaky, I'm on thier ML anyway :)
[22:35] <UndiFineD> thank phillw
[22:36] <UndiFineD> [TOPIC] help.ubuntu.com
[22:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  help.ubuntu.com
[22:36] <MrChrisDruif> [ACTION] phillw will collar someone from the docs team to teach Mallard
[22:36] <MrChrisDruif> Meh...
[22:36] <UndiFineD> as I understand this will be one of the primairy sources of information in english and for LoCo languages
[22:36] <MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; copy my action post
[22:37] <UndiFineD> [ACTION] phillw will collar someone from the docs team to teach Mallard
[22:37] <MootBot> ACTION received:  phillw will collar someone from the docs team to teach Mallard
[22:37] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks :)
[22:38] <UndiFineD> that would likely look something like this: https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/nl/index.html (404)
[22:38] <MrChrisDruif> Source of that info? As I think it's odd in my eyes that the LoCo teams would use it.
[22:38] <UndiFineD> this comes from UDS too
[22:38] <MrChrisDruif> Or would it just move all the LoCo pages to the help.u.c place?
[22:39] <head_victim> MrChrisDruif: the loco reference is for non english speaking loco's
[22:39] <MrChrisDruif> head_victim; That's why I thought it was odd
[22:39] <UndiFineD> the default english pages would be put up for translation, and offers the benefit of a central repository for all languages help
[22:40] <UndiFineD> I do not think this is a question any more and will happen
[22:40] <jbicha> UndiFineD: sorry I've got too much going on this week
[22:40] <UndiFineD> it allows for online help from the desktop applications
[22:40] <MrChrisDruif> That would be nice, but a lot of the doc items are already translated? The docs supplied with the installation for instance?
[22:40] <UndiFineD> jbicha, thats ok
[22:41] <jbicha> http://projectmallard.org/ and there's a decent amount of gnome help in the format already, just check the source code and copy the good parts
[22:41] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://projectmallard.org/ and there's a decent amount of gnome help in the format already, just check the source code and copy the good parts
[22:41] <jbicha> yikes, it's a bot
[22:41] <UndiFineD> heh
[22:41] <MrChrisDruif> Only problem was that it recieved a [LINK] without the command ;)
[22:42] <UndiFineD> MrChrisDruif, the current documentation loco teams have, they can keep it, but would likely become out of date in the future
[22:42] <MrChrisDruif> Or maybe a good opportunity to let the LoCo help with the move?
[22:43] <MrChrisDruif> Maybe even get some extra admins? O:-)
[22:43]  * MrChrisDruif is hopeful ;)
[22:43] <UndiFineD> I suggested that too, that the loco's get help transforming
[22:45] <UndiFineD> mmm, depending on the new structure, we might need to reform the community part as well
[22:45] <UndiFineD> just thought of this
[22:45] <head_victim> New structure of what?
[22:45] <MrChrisDruif> Reform the community?
[22:45] <MrChrisDruif> New structure?
[22:45] <UndiFineD> being relative the same as the official help
[22:46] <UndiFineD> https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/nl/index.html (404)
[22:46] <UndiFineD> is what I think it may look like
[22:46] <UndiFineD> the url that is
[22:46] <MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; That's a 404 with me
[22:47] <MrChrisDruif> As in not findable
[22:47] <xardas008> it was just an example for the url not the page
[22:47] <MrChrisDruif> That way the docs would get VERY version dependent =-O
[22:47] <UndiFineD> currently we have pages named like JapaneseFontsSetup
[22:48] <UndiFineD> bad example, as it may have 2 meanings
[22:48] <UndiFineD> but might need to be renamed to 11.04/jp/fonts/setup
[22:49] <spynappels> Does that mean that there may be multiple versions of a page?
[22:49] <MrChrisDruif> Maybe without the version
[22:49] <spynappels> one version for each supported release?
[22:49] <MrChrisDruif> And explain possible difference on the page
[22:49] <spynappels> or can they be linked?
[22:49] <spynappels> like a "symlink"
[22:49] <xardas008> when i understood that correct it should be an online help for the programs in ubuntu? So it is by default version independent
[22:49] <MrChrisDruif> Or redirect from the new page to the old if things haven't changed
[22:49] <UndiFineD> spynappels, there is <<include>> :)
[22:50] <MrChrisDruif> Spynappels?
[22:50] <spynappels> yes?
[22:50] <MrChrisDruif> Ow....never noticed it was your nick, sorry :)
[22:50] <spynappels> no prob
[22:51] <UndiFineD> often the best way here, is to recreate the pages and mark the old ones for deletion with comment pointing to the new url
[22:51] <MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; So just include the older page?
[22:51]  * MrChrisDruif doesn't get it. Recreate the page, mark old onces for deletion?
[22:52] <UndiFineD> JapaneseFontsSetup to 11.04/jp/fonts/setup
[22:52] <spynappels> Then would it be an idea to maintain a master page with all pertinent information and include that with any version specific changes/additions?
[22:52] <UndiFineD> page JapaneseFontsSetup is tagged for deletion and in comment there is a pointer to the new 11.04/jp/fonts/setup
[22:52] <UndiFineD> this is not the greatest example
[22:53] <UndiFineD> spynappels, that is why we have our Summer of Documentation project :)
[22:53] <UndiFineD> you mark a pages as yours in remake
[22:54] <MrChrisDruif> I think it's better to redirect then to delete
[22:54] <MrChrisDruif> That way when people have bookmarked a page they get to the new page instead of an empty page
[22:55] <xardas008> or maybe only delete after support time is over?
[22:55] <phillw> +1
[22:55] <MrChrisDruif> phillw; Yeah, I learn quickly ;)
[22:55] <UndiFineD> yeah, that might be a great idea
[22:56] <spynappels> @xardas008 That seems a reasonable suggestion, natural wastage will get rid of the pages eventually anyway
[22:56] <jbicha> I don't think putting a version number as part of every page's title is a good idea
[22:56] <phillw> I am loathe to delete a page. If it is a couple of years out of date, then yeah.
[22:56] <head_victim> jbicha: I concur, it will require a large effort each release to check, confirm and copy each page for every release
[22:56] <jbicha> you could use a category & a table of contents heirarchy to mark a set of pages for a particular version
[22:56] <phillw> but redirects are the best way.
[22:57] <jbicha> that way it could be in multiple versions easily
[22:57] <MrChrisDruif> +1 on jbicha
[22:57] <UndiFineD> jbicha, it would make community more compatible with the official help
[22:57] <UndiFineD> jbicha, that is also true
[22:57] <jbicha> well the Desktop Guide only has the version number in it because that's where it's stored, it doesn't require renaming pages
[22:57] <MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; I think that it will be defined in the Styling Guide?
[22:57] <spynappels> it would also make updating easier, if a release is no longer supported, only a small section needs to be removed.
[22:58] <UndiFineD> jbicha, well I think we go with that for now then, only need to make versionable categories then
[22:59] <MrChrisDruif> spynappels; There are a lot of pages
[22:59] <UndiFineD> spynappels, +4000
[22:59] <MrChrisDruif> So "a small" section I wouldn't call it.
[22:59] <UndiFineD> I would like to wrap this topic and move on
[22:59] <MrChrisDruif> But UndiFineD, won't it be defined in the new styling guide?
[23:00] <UndiFineD> I hope so :)
[23:00] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, then I think it's indeed time for the next [TOPIC]
[23:00] <UndiFineD> [TOPIC] Summer of Documentation 2011
[23:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Summer of Documentation 2011
[23:01] <UndiFineD> yes I am skipping Ubuntu Manual
[23:01] <MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; There is no meeting planned after this one, so it's alright if we run late
[23:01] <MrChrisDruif> We are already running late ;)
[23:02] <xardas008> MrChrisDruif: but i will fell asleep soon i think xD
[23:02] <UndiFineD> for the 4th year in a row we have our Summer of Documentation projects, most details are already given above
[23:02] <UndiFineD> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Docs/SoD2011
[23:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Docs/SoD2011
[23:03] <UndiFineD> there are some more pages to be expected to be put up there by people, but feel free to pick some and add your name to the list of the pages you want to rework
[23:03] <MrChrisDruif> Alright
[23:04] <UndiFineD> This can be all across the *buntu family including Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu and Lubuntu
[23:04] <MrChrisDruif> Maybe add that Ubuntu Manual accessibility to that page?
[23:04] <MrChrisDruif> Yay for Lubuntu :D
[23:05] <MrChrisDruif> \o/
[23:05] <UndiFineD> MrChrisDruif, AlanBell actually wrote something up yesterday they might be able to use
[23:05] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, great :)
[23:06] <UndiFineD> so Last point MrChrisDruif
[23:06] <UndiFineD> [TOPIC] Regular meetings
[23:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Regular meetings
[23:06] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, I think UndiFineD would agree with me (as he started with a comment similar) I would like to have regular intervals between the meetings
[23:07] <UndiFineD> I do
[23:07] <UndiFineD> what would be good ? 2 weeks a month ?
[23:07] <MrChrisDruif> I don't think bi-monthly meeting is a bit long, so either a weekly, bi-weekly or monthly meeting would be great :)
[23:08] <UndiFineD> anyone else ?
[23:08] <MrChrisDruif> xardas008 fell asleep ;)
[23:08] <xardas008> not yet xD
[23:08] <xardas008> depends on the topics i think
[23:09] <xardas008> if there are important ones weekly would be good, but bi-weekly is also enough i think
[23:09] <UndiFineD> well as I have shown above all the topics are linked, so they are most likely to stay
[23:09] <MrChrisDruif> I think I would be a +1 on bi-weekly
[23:09] <UndiFineD> we just get more into the details
[23:09] <MrChrisDruif> Weekly is a bit much :D
[23:10] <UndiFineD> it has a +1 from me too
[23:11] <MrChrisDruif> IMHO anyway
[23:11] <MrChrisDruif> Alright...so bi-weekly?
[23:11] <xardas008> +1
[23:11] <MrChrisDruif> Alright...same day?
[23:12] <phillw> provided someone pokes me before it starts :)
[23:12] <UndiFineD> seems agreeable next meeting then somewhere in 2 weeks, timing with a more flexible doodle
[23:12] <MrChrisDruif> Even more flexible? :P
[23:12] <UndiFineD> since some people could not make it tonight
[23:13] <MrChrisDruif> Only 3 of the 9 couldn't make it tonight
[23:13] <UndiFineD> well, I think that is it for tonight.
[23:13] <UndiFineD> any thing else ?
[23:13] <MrChrisDruif> One of which has stops all activity on freenode
[23:13] <MrChrisDruif> stopped*
[23:14] <UndiFineD> :/
[23:14] <MrChrisDruif> I'd like to set the next meeting if that's alright
[23:14] <UndiFineD> no doodle ?
[23:14] <MrChrisDruif> Preferably not O:-)
[23:15] <MrChrisDruif> Anyone?
[23:15] <UndiFineD> phillw, xardas008 ?
[23:16] <xardas008> hm?
[23:16] <UndiFineD> head_victim, ?
[23:16] <MrChrisDruif> Next meeting; doodle or set it now
[23:16] <phillw> I'm pretty flexible on times
[23:16] <UndiFineD> eaespinoza0, ?
[23:16] <xardas008> i'm free with everything
[23:16] <eaespinoza0> yea
[23:16] <head_victim> My times constantly change so I just come when I can or read logs
[23:16] <eaespinoza0> yeah?
[23:17] <UndiFineD> seems we have a flexible group
[23:17] <MrChrisDruif> It's not a two man show eaespinoza0, hence we want some input on when to plan the next meeting
[23:17] <MrChrisDruif> ;)
[23:18] <eaespinoza0> okay sorry job toke me away a few minutes and lost the attention
[23:18] <UndiFineD> we will pick a free slot in 2 weeks
[23:18] <eaespinoza0> I'm going for doodle to figure out a window for everyone
[23:19] <phillw> UndiFineD: as long as it posted up on the topic for the room a.s.a.p. that gives most of us chance to make arrangements or scream!
[23:19] <UndiFineD> eaespinoza0, well we can, but are limited to the fridge too
[23:19] <MrChrisDruif> phillw; the topic redirects to the wiki page
[23:19] <MrChrisDruif> Just keep an eye out for the update of the bulletin ;)
[23:19] <UndiFineD> #endmeeting
[23:20] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:19.
[23:20] <MrChrisDruif> Timewarp hole =-O
[23:20] <UndiFineD> heh
[23:20] <MrChrisDruif> I thought it was 12:20 AM :P
[23:21] <phillw> do not forget, if ubuntu-meeting is booked, you do have meetingology on your channel.
[23:21] <MrChrisDruif> phillw; I know how to "book" the channel :)
[23:21] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: not if someone got there 1st :P
[23:22] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed, that's why I wanted to book this evening ;)
[23:22] <xardas008> ok i will be off for now, sleep well everybody
[23:22] <MrChrisDruif> Sleep well xardas008
[23:22] <UndiFineD> gn xardas008
[23:22] <phillw> tc xardas008
[23:22] <MrChrisDruif> But will we put out an doodle?
[23:23] <UndiFineD> well we can but are limited to the fridge i thing
[23:24] <MrChrisDruif> It's pretty open in 2 weeks
[23:28] <MrChrisDruif> So a doodle it is?


[02:00] <halvors> Hi! I want to setup NAT with iptables.
[02:00] <halvors> Any ideas how to do it?
[02:01] <halvors> I will simply nat from inside interface to outside interface and allow anybody from the inside.


[08:35] <tgpraveen> hi can anyone tell me how do i use bonjour/link local to chat from my laptop to another laptop user near me via wifi via pidgin/empathy
[08:45] <tgpraveen> anyone?
[09:50] <rski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/374250
[13:07] <cwillu> """A bug in the kitten-sitter package in some cases leads to kittens being swallowed whole by systems running Karmic Alpha 1, nom nom."""
[13:07] <cwillu> very nice
[16:11]  * maxb crosses fingers and begins upgrade :-)
[16:21] <dazjorz> So
[16:21] <dazjorz> I guess everybody here already knows about kdelibs5-dev: trying to overwrite `/usr/include/KDE/Plasma/AbstractRunner', which is also in package libplasma-dev
[16:21] <dazjorz> what's happening? libplasma-dev going away? :)
[17:02] <maxb> Quirky. Seems an upgrade to karmic has changed my mouse pointer sensitivity :-)
[17:19] <maxb> Well, this is disturbing
[17:19] <maxb> update-grub is silently failing to update my boot options
[17:24] <maxb> Ah... because I chose "keep" during the release-upgrader run and ucf was overly aggressive about caching that decision
[17:28] <maxb> How predictable :-)
[17:28] <maxb> Naturally audio is broken in karmic
[17:31] <dazjorz_> and kdelibs5/libplasma-dev are/is broken too
[17:41] <maxb> Hm. Playing an mp3 is working fine. I get pops/crackles from a DVD though
[17:49] <dazjorz_> I do get the idea we're talking to a wall here
[18:01] <maxb> It's the weekend
[18:31] <FFForever> has anyones system actually broken from any of the ubuntu alpha releases?
[18:32] <rski> define broken
[18:33] <FFForever> well the topic says it will surely break ur system..., out of all of the alpha's i have ran (since the 7.10) none of them have broken my system to an unuseable state
[18:33] <Amaranth> FFForever: I know at one time the ati driver had a bug that would cripple video cards unless you managed to blindly boot into a windows install that had a working ati driver
[18:33] <Amaranth> but I think that was before ubuntu existed, actually
[18:34] <FFForever> wow thats one heck of a bug
[18:34] <FFForever> :D
[18:34] <Amaranth> if you didn't have windows installed the card was trash
[18:34] <Amaranth> problem: some of these were laptops
[18:36] <rski> wait what
[18:36] <rski> you couldnt plop in a bootmedia with windows installed after the crash?
[18:36] <Amaranth> rski: can you install WinXP blindly?
[18:36] <rski> yes
[18:36] <Amaranth> and then go online, download, and install the ati driver blindly?
[18:36] <rski> no
[18:37] <rski> but
[18:37] <rski> if i have a hdd.
[18:37] <rski> with windows +ati driver
[18:37] <rski> i couldn't use that?
[18:37] <rski> there was some kind of time-constraint
[18:37] <rski> that it had to boot back into windows
[18:37] <Amaranth> no but transferring a windows install to another machine just makes it blue screen on boot
[18:38] <rski> it can
[18:38] <rski> it dosent do it 100&
[18:38] <rski> 100%
[18:38] <Amaranth> it does if you have different hardware
[18:38] <rski> depends on how different
[18:39] <Amaranth> they'd have to have the same chipset
[18:40] <maxb> Then there was the kernel that bricked certain intel ethernet adaptors
[18:40] <Amaranth> yeah, that was fun
[18:40] <Amaranth> I stopped booting ubuntu when that came up then reinstalled from a LiveCD when it was fixed
[18:40] <Amaranth> didn't even try to boot and upgrade
[18:41] <maxb> And as far as less permanant breakage is concerned, it looks like I'll need to dual-boot jaunty if I want to watch a DVD right now
[18:41] <rski> libdvdcss is borked?
[18:42] <maxb> Something pulse/alsa-ish
[18:42] <maxb> I assume
[18:42] <maxb> I get lots of crackling on DVD audio. But not on .mp3 audio, oddly
[18:42] <rski> well
[18:43] <rski> audacious gives perfect sound
[18:43] <rski> mplayer does not
[18:43] <rski> youtube works fine also
[18:43] <maxb> Indeed, it seems to only be affecting DVDs.
[18:43] <rski> i haven't played a single dvd but i still get crackling audio in mplayer
[18:43] <rski> it's not dvd-specific
[19:26] <DanaG> Once I found out about that ethernet bug, I just blacklisted e1000e.
[19:27] <virtuelv> uh? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview#line-57
[19:29] <rski> dont take is seriosly
[19:29] <rski> it's just a warning it may eat your data
[19:30] <virtuelv> While I appreciate humor, I'd prefer if it said that, if it's a real risk (and I assume it is, if karmic is moving to ext4)
[19:30] <rski> it's not even out yet virtuelv
[19:31] <rski> notice the "Karmic Alpha 1 eats"
[19:38] <dazjorz> so
[19:38] <dazjorz> the kdelibs5-dev / libplasma-dev issue? is it known?
[19:39] <dazjorz> I'm guessing it's not needed to e-mail any maintainer
[20:06] <wilhart_> Ubuntu-Studio 9.10 (Karmic Koala) Daily Build, was this one stable? or released properly?
[20:07] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: it's a daily from a pre-alpha
[20:07] <BUGabundo> why would you even think to expect it to be stable?
[20:07] <wilhart_> BUGabundo: is it bugged? much
[20:07] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: dunno
[20:07] <wilhart_> BUGabundo: it has ext4 ?
[20:07] <BUGabundo> why don't you test it and report the bugs you find ?
[20:07] <wilhart_> but jaunty has ext3
[20:08] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: the installer has ext4 support since mid jaunty devel cycle
[20:08] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: jaunty had ext4 and still does!
[20:08] <wilhart_> BUGabundo: oh, so should i got jaunty or karmic ?
[20:09] <nperry> wilhart_ got jaunty, Karmic is very buggy at the mo
[20:10] <BUGabundo> nperry: not for me. its as stable as jaunty at this point
[20:10] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: all depends on how experience you are, what makes you want to test
[20:10] <nperry> BUGabundo Had one problem, but that was my own messing :P
[20:10] <wilhart_> nperry: ok and the file is: ubuntustudio-9.04-alternate-i386.iso          21-Apr-2009 20:53  1.3G  Alternate install DVD for PC (Intel x86) computers (standard download)
[20:10] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: if you like to report and follow up on bugs, and if you really need a stable system
[20:11] <wilhart_> nperry: this is right?
[20:11] <BUGabundo> devel cycle system can and WILL cause breakage
[20:11] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: what are you trying to do?
[20:11] <BUGabundo> to troll us ?
[20:11] <dazjorz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4libs/+bug/374580 - filed it
[20:11] <wilhart_> BUGabundo: hmm
[20:12] <BUGabundo> dazjorz: I have a similar
[20:12] <BUGabundo> there seem to be a few depencies on kde5
[20:12] <dazjorz> kde5 even :P
[20:12] <wilhart_> BUGabundo: i would like to install ubuntustudio
[20:12] <dazjorz> kdelibs5 I guess
[20:12] <dazjorz> yeah it looks as if libplasma-dev was merged into kdelibs5-dev
[20:13] <dazjorz> but, it doesn't conflict yet, so apt doesn't remove it before kdelibs5-dev
[20:13] <wilhart_> BUGabundo: last time i installed it it gave red windows with alerts so
[20:13] <dazjorz> so it fails to install etc
[20:13] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: then go with Desktop version of Studio jaunty
[20:13] <wilhart_> BUGabundo: sorry what is that?
[20:14] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/jaunty/release/
[20:15] <wilhart_>  ubuntustudio-9.04-alternate-i386.iso, i have this so it's right
[20:15] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/jaunty/release/
[20:16] <BUGabundo> that's the 32bits
[20:16] <BUGabundo> do you want 32 or 64bits?
[20:16] <wilhart_> 32 !
[20:16] <BUGabundo> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/jaunty/release/ubuntustudio-9.04-alternate-i386.iso.torrent
[20:16] <dazjorz> why the -alternate- ?
[20:16] <dazjorz> isn't there a -desktop- ?
[20:16] <dazjorz> or standard or w/e
[20:17] <BUGabundo> dazjorz: studio as no Destop
[20:17] <BUGabundo> just alternate
[20:18] <wilhart_> BUGabundo: how do i check if the .iso file is good for burning ?
[20:18] <wilhart_> what was the command hmm
[20:18] <wilhart_> metalink ?
[20:19] <BUGabundo> its a torrent
[20:19] <BUGabundo> it should auto check after download
[20:19] <BUGabundo> but if you want to be really sure, just check the md5
[20:19] <dazjorz> BUGabundo: oh, ok
[20:19] <BUGabundo>  !md5
[20:20]  * maxb ponders the feasibility of using debootstrap to install a new system, not having any isos handy
[20:20] <maxb> let's try it and see :-)
[20:20] <BUGabundo> maxb: I would like to have a better way to do installs too
[20:20] <BUGabundo> maxb: how is that method?
[20:20] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: now leave us to do karmic stuff and ask further help on #ubuntu
[20:21] <wilhart_> where do i  get tthe .md5 file ?
[20:21] <BUGabundo>  !md5 > wilhart_
[20:21] <dazjorz> heh
[20:21] <dazjorz> maxb: I installed my current system through that :P
[20:22] <dazjorz> it just wouldn't install off the CD, giving an error a few minutes in the process every tie
[20:22] <dazjorz> time
[20:22] <dazjorz> so I just mounted the disk, debootstrapped, chrooted, installed some packages, linux and grub, and then rebooted, worked flawlessly
[20:22] <BUGabundo> dazjorz: maxb how is that?
[20:22] <BUGabundo> I used to add a line to grub to lunch the iso
[20:22] <BUGabundo> but that stop working a while ago
[20:23] <maxb> I'm hoping I can debootstrap a jaunty chroot into a new partition, from my running karmic system, chroot into it, install a kernel, install a desktop environment, and boot into it
[20:23] <wilhart_> so i get ext4 in jaunty ?
[20:23] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: should
[20:23] <dazjorz> BUGabundo: easy, and fast, and nice :)
[20:23] <dazjorz> it's just... good :)
[20:24] <dazjorz> wilhart_: you get a choice during installation
[20:24] <BUGabundo> dazjorz: so man debootstrapped and im done?
[20:24] <wilhart_> hope this works, i burned with 2.6k/sec
[20:24] <BUGabundo> dazjorz: I'm not sure Studio has ext4, due to several bugs with the RT kernel
[20:24] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: don't you have a 2GiBs usb stick?
[20:25] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: I'm not sure Studio has ext4, due to several bugs with the RT kernel
[20:25] <wilhart_> BUGabundo: i got 16gig stick
[20:25] <DanaG> odd thing ntfs-3g is giving me:
[20:26] <DanaG> d????????? ? ? ? ?                ? Weeks 5-7
[20:26] <DanaG> d????????? ? ? ? ?                ? Weeks 8-10
[20:26] <DanaG> instead of drwxrwxrwx
[20:26] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: the use usb-creator instead burning to DVD
[20:26] <DanaG> "weeks 5-7" is the folder name.
[20:26] <BUGabundo> DanaG: system was suspended?
[20:26] <wilhart_> BUGabundo: it's too difficould
[20:26] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: its two clicks! how can that be hard?
[20:27] <wilhart_> what? :D
[20:27] <DanaG> That dir is just corrupt.
[20:28] <wilhart_> BUGabundo: i need to put bios settings booti with usb-stick ?
[20:29] <ikonia> wilhart_: with the greatest respect, if you don't know how to get your machine to boot a usb device you should not be playing with super early development releases
[20:29] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: you may! but you also need to do that for the CD/DVD
[20:29] <wilhart_> BUGabundo: never booted with usbstick
[20:29] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: further help on that on #ubuntu, ok? this is for karmic
[20:29] <BUGabundo>  !usb
[20:30] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: read this links !
[20:31] <wilhart_> ok that really sucks
[20:31] <dazjorz> BUGabundo: it's not all, but
[20:32] <dazjorz> BUGabundo: debootstrap only installs a very basic system, you need to install a linux-kernel, and a bootloader, etc, but it will work, yeha
[20:32] <wilhart_>  ubottu> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see
[20:32] <wilhart_>                 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see:
[20:32] <wilhart_>                 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
[20:32] <wilhart_> sorry
[20:32] <wilhart_> wrong button
[20:33] <wilhart_> windows xp/visdta is "alawys" unstable release
[20:33] <wilhart_> never stable
[20:34] <BUGabundo> wilhart_: if you are on Windows, best/easy way to get Ubuntu (even Studio) is to use Wubi!
[20:34] <BUGabundo>  !wubi | wilhart_
[20:35] <wilhart_> ubottu: i've triedthat didnt like it
[20:37]  * dazjorz never succesfully used Wubi, and only tried once
[20:37] <dazjorz> a looong time ago
[20:37] <wilhart_> yea it's crap
[20:37] <wilhart_> thanks!
[20:38] <BUGabundo> dazjorz: used it many many times, works 90% of the time
[20:38]  * BUGabundo is glad the troll left us
[20:39] <dazjorz> did you think it was a troll?
[20:40] <BUGabundo> dazjorz: he wouldn't accept any tips...
[20:41] <BUGabundo> and was only repeting questions
[20:42] <dazjorz> hmm
[20:42]  * dazjorz isn't very good at recognizing trolls
[20:43] <BUGabundo> dazjorz: ok he was just a noob, but had already several bad ideas set
[20:48]  * dazjorz wonders if he removes libplasma-dev, if the problems will be gone
[20:48] <dazjorz> ewww
[20:48] <dazjorz> kdelibs5-dev depends on libplasma-dev
[20:52] <BUGabundo> cycling depends....
[20:52] <dazjorz> well actually: kdelibs5-dev depends on libplasma-dev but installs files that libplasma-dev installs too
[20:52] <dazjorz> so it's kind of a mess atm
[20:53] <BUGabundo> yep
[20:53]  * dazjorz force removes libplasma-dev
[20:54] <dazjorz> aaaand it's installed, seems ok
[20:56] <BUGabundo> hum ok nice
[20:56] <dazjorz> looks like the newest kdelibs5 doesn't Depend on libplasma-dev now
[21:08] <wilhart> i need help installing ubuntustudio from usbstick can someone help
[21:09] <wilhart> that's hard! omg


[12:49] <Eimann_> ü/win 23
[12:49] <Eimann_> oops
[22:19] <t0rx__> anyone know how to remedy bcmwl from messing up a kernel compile?


[14:24] <cjohnston> anyone a mac user?
[14:32] <mhall119> :P
[14:32] <mhall119> I think zoopster has a mac, but I don't know if he still has OSX on it
[14:35] <cjohnston> need someone to do a switching from os x session
[14:36] <mhall119> kind of last minute to recruit instructors isn't it?
[14:36] <cjohnston> thats what happens when someone cancels last minute
[15:41] <zoopster> yes and yes
[17:48] <govatent> itnet7, ping