[16:22] <jvrbanac> mhall119, quick question, in general, how much do you want to push to the views opposed to the models before it gets pushed into the database. Last night, I pushed in that quick change to deal with the line breaks within the doc string, but I did it before it was stored in the database. However, I wasn't sure how much you wanted to manipulate the content going into the db.
[16:24] <mhall119> jvrbanac: in general, I'd like to disturb the data as little as possible between the GIR and the database
[16:25] <mhall119> unless there's a good benefit to doing so
[16:25] <jvrbanac> Got it. You want me to move that code into the view then?
[16:26] <mhall119> what change are you making?
[16:28] <jvrbanac> It was that linebreak clean up and replacement that I pushed up last night. I think it was merged into that pull that you merged into this master this morning.
[16:29] <mhall119> oh, I didn't notice it, let me go back and look at it
[16:30] <mhall119> jvrbanac: so I've been thinking about what to do with these docs
[16:30] <mhall119> being in docbook is kind of a pain for embedding them within a page
[16:30] <mhall119> also, if we're going to support Qt APIs and others, we can'd depend on them all being the same markup
[16:31] <mhall119> I'm wondering if we should run an XML translation on the GIR docbook text, and convert it to something like Markdown
[16:33] <jvrbanac> That would certainly make things easier on the rendering side.
[16:34] <mhall119> I haven't found any simple python docbook library though, so we may have to work with the XML directly
[16:35] <jvrbanac> ehh, it shouldn't be too hard... famous last words.
[16:42] <mhall119> heh
[16:48] <jvrbanac> mhall119, do you want me to put together a util to do that conversion or do you want to wait and mess with it later?
[16:55] <mhall119> jvrbanac: if you can do that, it would certainly make everything else easier
[16:58] <jvrbanac> mhall119, sure. I have written a few proprietary xml format readers for my day job over the past few years. Never in python, but it shouldn't be too much different.
[22:12] <mterry> nope


[20:16] <mup> PR operator#1067 opened: feat: secret owners do not auto-peek, and can use refresh <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1067>
[23:53] <mup> PR operator#1068 opened: Pyproject build 893 <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1068>


[01:12] <james_w> yay, new -intel, thank you
[01:21] <bryce> james_w, yep, hope it's stable.  Was looking like the number of issues fixed by updating it was greater than my interest in continuing to cherrypick ;-)
[01:22] <james_w> well, it closed the bug that I thought was mine, so I'll be happy if that was the case
[01:22] <james_w> I'll hopefully be able to suspend next time I'm away from home :-)
[01:22] <bryce> yeah the suspend fix was the biggie
[01:23] <bryce> I was a bit aggressive at guessing on some bugs that I *think* are going to be fixed.  I figure the users will be bold in reopening the bugs if I'm wrong :-)
[01:27] <james_w> yeah, I don't think you'll have a problem with that :-)
[01:28] <james_w> I saw Jesse's post on possibly being able to capture a GPU dump when it freezes, that would be great
[01:33] <Sarvatt> i made sure every bug closer i added to the dpms off fix was fixed for the original reporter by the update in x-updates, resume from suspend would be more in a kernel fix i would think unless dpms is getting turned off before suspend for some reason? there was a fix for most peoples suspend/resume problems in 2.6.31-rc2 and <IP_ADDRESS>
[01:34] <bryce> james_w, yeah I need to pull that patch and take a look at it
[01:35] <bryce> Sarvatt, yeah I actually went and added several more bug#'s on top of yours.  I'm sure yours are accurate, but less confident on mine :-)
[01:35] <james_w> Sarvatt: I could suspend and resume fine, but I had no X afterwards, and dpms would sometimes lead to the same thing as well
[01:35] <Sarvatt> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=9e06dd39f2b6d7e35981e0d7aded618686b32ccb
[01:36] <Sarvatt> ah, any idea if it only happen when compiz was enabled james_w?
[01:36] <james_w> I'm happy to have the bug marked as fixed either way, as I never did what I should and invested the time to delve in to the problem
[01:36] <james_w> if it's not fixed then I will do so
[01:36] <james_w> yeah, I never tried without it actually
[01:37] <james_w> -intel has been too solid otherwise so far for me in karmic that I never thought to try without it :-)
[01:37] <Sarvatt> theres someone reporting that 965+ isnt resuming right with compiz enabled still even after the ordering fix but he hasnt been able to figure out why
[01:38] <james_w> I'm 945 for what it's worth
[01:38] <Sarvatt> ah good
[01:38] <Sarvatt> do you use KDE?
[01:39] <Sarvatt> i think KDE locks the session and does a dpms off on suspend
[01:44] <Sarvatt> seemed like most of the people having problems with it were using KDE, thats why I filed one of the bugs against acpi-support because it was using the screenblank script in there under KDE causing problems, getting rid of the screenblank script and letting just KDE handle dpms fixed it for a few people before it was fixed in the driver
[01:47] <Sarvatt> that was just for people with hangs on lid close though
[01:48] <james_w> nah, GNOME
[01:54] <Sarvatt> heads up btw
[01:54] <Sarvatt> Setting up xserver-xorg-core (2:<IP_ADDRESS>+git20090709.e8121033-0ubuntu0sarvatt) ...
[01:54] <Sarvatt> dpkg: warning: obsolete option '--print-installation-architecture', please use '--print-architecture' instead.
[01:57] <Sarvatt> whenever xserver gets updated, new dpkg change
[01:58] <Sarvatt> xorg-server/debian/xsfbs/xsfbs.sh:ARCHITECTURE="$(dpkg --print-installation-architecture)"
[02:02] <Sarvatt> ah it'll be pulled in from debian anyway http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/xserver/xorg-server.git;a=commit;h=7deebf983f53c505bc25171ab77fdc408f250a6e
[02:03] <Sarvatt> adding patches on top of the current xserver will give the error though (not that it hurts anything)
[02:04] <bryce> :-)  <kees> "Launchpad can now import code from Git repositories." whoa
[02:09] <kees> bryce: http://blog.launchpad.net/bazaar/git-imports
[02:11] <bryce> kees: bryce@chideok:/tmp$ bzr branch lp:xserver-xorg-video-intel
[02:11] <bryce> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:xserver-xorg-video-intel": xf86-video-intel has no default branch.
[02:11] <bryce> hrm
[02:15] <james_w> woop, seems to be fixed. Thanks all
[02:20] <Sarvatt> bryce: do you have to link it first somewhere?
[02:22] <bryce> probably
[02:22] <bryce> james_w, nice :-)
[02:23] <Sarvatt> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/+code-imports/+new
[02:33] <Sarvatt> bzr branch lp:ubuntu/karmic/mesa and libdrm work
[05:33] <bryce> Sarvatt, sweet!
[06:38] <kees> ~[6~[6~[6~[6~/win 13
[06:38] <kees> argh
[08:35] <Sarvatt> speak of the devil, they fixed that bug in pixman tjaalton -- http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pixman/commit/?id=0fce356762864572ae126733f657600fbb9116ce
[08:39] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: nice
[08:43] <tjaalton> FYI, I'll be more or less offline the next two weeks..
[08:43] <tjaalton> bryce: ^^
[08:44] <tjaalton> here's hoping that 1.7beta is released by then ;)
[08:45] <bryce> tjaalton, okay hope it's for something fun :-)
[08:45] <tjaalton> bryce: yeah, back to vacation. tomorrow I'll participate in a rowing contest, but just for fun
[08:46] <tjaalton> 60km on a boat with seven pairs and a captain
[08:46] <tjaalton> my butt will be sore :/
[08:48] <tjaalton> other than that it's just lazying at the summer cottage
[08:48] <bryce> ah good, was worrying a bit you might be rowing to Ireland for some plundering ;-)
[08:49] <tjaalton> yeah, there must be some viking blood in my veins :)
[08:59] <Ng> ooh, -intel update
[09:10] <RAOF> Yeah, with bonus crazy 60Hz mode.
[09:11] <hyperair> crazy 60Hz mode?
[09:14] <bryce> RAOF, you mean return of vblank sync?
[10:53] <RAOF> bryce: No, I mean trying to drive my LVDS with a 60Hz mode that the display doesn't like one bit.
[10:53] <RAOF> There'll be a bug filed with cool screenshots.
[10:57] <bryce> ok
[13:17] <apw> Sarvatt, how far away do we think the ati kms userspace support is?
[13:55] <ScottK> james_w: It looks like dontzap is still setting xorg.conf, but that doesn't have the effect in Karmic that it did in Jaunty.  Do you know how that's supposed to be set now?
[13:56] <james_w> through the keyboard layout
[13:56] <james_w> so it's now per-user and doesn't require an X restart
[13:56] <ScottK> I see.
[13:56] <ScottK> tseliot: Did you plan on updating dontzap?
[13:57] <tseliot> ScottK: yes, sure
[13:57] <jcristau> what's the use for dontzap at this point?
[13:58] <ScottK> jcristau: Making ctal-alt-backspace work.
[13:58] <jcristau> well, no
[13:58] <jcristau> the gnome kbd applet does that
[13:59]  * ScottK doesn't use Gnome.
[13:59] <jcristau> the kde kbd applet, then
[14:00] <tseliot> the last time I tested it, setting dontzap with setxkbmap didn't work
[14:00] <ScottK> jcristau: It doesn't support that.
[14:00] <tseliot> in Karmic but it worked in Fedora
[14:00] <jcristau> tseliot: so fix the server to have DontZap off by default
[14:01] <tseliot> jcristau: isn't it off by default again now?
[14:01] <jcristau> it is upstream and in fedora
[14:02] <tseliot> in the past we used what upstream decided so as to minimise maintenance
[14:03] <ScottK> tseliot: I built xserver-xorg-input-synaptics for karmic in my PPA with your patch for settling the touchpad down and it's made a huge difference with my mini 10v
[14:03] <tseliot> ScottK: yes, unfortunately it can't be upstreamed as it's very specific to the mini 10v
[14:04] <ScottK> tseliot: Thanks for the patch.
[14:04] <tseliot> james_w: does setxkbmap work for you to enable/disable zapping in Karmic? (I'm still using jaunty)
[14:04] <james_w> Haven't tried actually
[14:04] <tseliot> ScottK: it's my job (OEM) ;)
[14:05] <ScottK> tseliot: Just because you got paid to do it doesn't mean I can't appreciate it.
[14:05] <tseliot> tjaalton: ^^ (setxkbmap)
[14:05] <tseliot> ScottK: I'm glad it helped :-)
[14:07] <ScottK> I'll also look at the KDE systemsetting module and see how hard that would be to patch instead.
[14:07] <ScottK> Maybe maco will do it since she want's to improve her C++
[14:08] <james_w> ScottK: you don't need to
[14:08] <james_w> as I see it
[14:08] <ScottK> How so?
[14:08] <james_w> I could confirm if I could fathom the way through this twisty path
[14:08] <james_w> the magic of good software design :-)
[14:08] <james_w> where will ./kcontrol/kxkb/kxkb_part.cpp end up?
[14:09] <james_w> or how can I access that part I mean?
[14:09] <maco> do what?
[14:09] <ScottK> maco: We're discussing making dontzap work for KDE in Karmic
[14:09] <maco> it doesnt?
[14:10] <james_w> doesn't work for anyone in karmic
[14:11] <maco> oh. good to know, i was just about to try it
[14:11] <maco> since suddenly, today, my vga claims to have nothing connected to it. which is a lie. and it worked on wednesday
[14:12] <maco> and no, this isnt the 13 hours ago upload of -intel. im still on the version from a few days ago. and randomly deciding to ignore my VGA port after resuming from suspend isn't a first :-/
[14:12] <tseliot> I wanted to set the xkb option in xorg.conf and use setxkbmap to apply settings without having to restart X. This way it's DE agnostic
[14:13] <jcristau> that's because there's no need for it in karmic... if the default is changed to off in the server, and kde/gnome both use libxklavier, they'll just have the option in their applet already
[14:13] <jcristau> and things will just work
[14:13] <ScottK> jcristau: OK.  So how come I don't have this option then?
[14:14] <jcristau> i don't know.  i don't use kde :)
[14:14] <ScottK> jcristau: OK.  So there is work to do and I'm trying to understand what.
[14:19] <ScottK> james_w: That should be in systemsettings
[14:20] <james_w> found it
[14:21] <james_w> Only-Show-In=kde for half of the parts used by systemsettings is a bit odd
[14:22] <tseliot> I think I found it
[14:22] <tseliot> click on  Regional & Language
[14:22] <ScottK> james_w: KDE gets yelled at for 'duplicate' menu entries if stuff like that isn't done.
[14:22] <ScottK> tseliot: Yes?
[14:23] <tseliot> there's a label which says "Command" and then there's a text entry which says something like setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout it,es -variant ,
[14:23] <james_w> it only shows
[14:23] <james_w> in the system settings though doesn't it?
[14:23] <james_w> not found it in my menu
[14:23] <james_w> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jamesw/layout.png
[14:24] <ScottK> Interesting.
[14:24] <ScottK> I have that section, but it's greyed out/locked.
[14:24] <tseliot> james_w: did you set the xkb option manually?
[14:25] <james_w> you need to "Enable keyboard layouts" on the first tab there
[14:25] <ScottK> Ah
[14:26] <tseliot> james_w: or was the "Key sequence to kill the X server" already there?
[14:27] <james_w> I did nothing
[14:27] <james_w> just chased down the GNOME stack and then up the KDE stack to find where the equivalent settings are
[14:27] <tseliot> nice, so, problem solved?
[14:28] <tseliot> when X is updated
[14:28] <ScottK> Interesting.  Works too.
[14:29] <ScottK> james_w: Very nice.  Thanks.
[14:29] <ScottK> tseliot: Yes.  Problem solved.
[14:29] <tseliot> ScottK: ok, so we can remove my patch from kdebase
[14:29] <tseliot> \o/
[14:29] <ScottK> tseliot: Yes.
[14:30] <maco> key sequence to kill the X server is in the Advanced tab
[14:32] <tseliot> jcristau: do you know if gnome has something similar in its xkb applet?
[14:32]  * tseliot hopes so
[14:34] <jcristau> tseliot: it does
[14:34] <ScottK> So the remaining question is xfce?
[14:35] <jcristau> that uses xklavier as well
[14:35] <tseliot> great, this means that we can drop dontzap (the package)
[14:35] <tseliot> \o/
[14:35] <jcristau> so it should just work, reading the options from /usr/share/X11/xkb/evdev.xml
[15:16] <razor7> hello..iḿ quite confused about ATi drivers...can anyone help? Thenka a lot!
[15:21] <razor7> hello..i'm quite confused about ATi drivers...can anyone help? Thanks a lot!
[15:22] <razor7> Hello I have an ATi x1950pro video card, but there is no more support from ATi/AMD since they say that this 2 years old card (worth u$s 200 at buytime) is no longer supported by ATi
[15:22] <razor7> In this repo I see theese two drivers:
[15:22] <razor7>     fglrx-installer - 2:8.620-0ubuntu3~jaunty
[15:22] <razor7>     xserver-xorg-video-ati - 1:6.12.2-0ubuntu1~xup~1
[15:22] <razor7> I have added the repo and installed xserver-xorg-video-ati - 1:6.12.2-0ubuntu1~xup~1, but the program glmark just hangs wit message "Segmnentation fault"
[16:09] <superm1> tseliot, why can't that patch be upstreamed?
[16:10]  * ScottK wonders too.
[16:10] <ScottK> While Mini 10v is where it really helps it seems like a generally good idea.
[16:10] <tseliot> superm1: because it's a workaround. A generic solution can't be found as the touchpad doesn't support multi-finger detection and reports some weird finger width/pressure values
[16:11] <ScottK> tseliot: Are there cases where the values it supresses are valid with other hardware?
[16:11] <tseliot> ScottK: yes
[16:12] <superm1> tseliot, so if that's the case, why not just try to detect the specific model of this one, and only do the weird stuff on this one then?
[16:12] <tseliot> superm1: I thought about that too but I doubt that upstream would include it
[16:13] <superm1> tseliot, well it's not like it's some archaic wanna-be synaptics touchpad.  it's a real synaptics touchpad that just reacts a little differently than others.
[16:14] <ScottK> tseliot: I'd settle for something we could ship in our package as a quirk.
[16:14] <superm1> so i can't see why upstream wouldn't want to see it fully functional albeit with a separate code path for its quirks
[16:15] <tseliot> ScottK: that could be done
[16:15] <tseliot> superm1: I'm not upstream ;) but I can ask them
[16:16] <ScottK> Upstream is better, but if it's something we can at least get in the archive, that'll help a lot of users.
[16:16] <tseliot> here's the bug report in upstream's bugzilla: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21614
[16:17] <tseliot> my second patch will be adopted (well, sooner or later): http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21613
[16:21] <superm1> so both patches help it in different ways then, or are these two separate problems?
[16:22] <tseliot> yes
[16:23] <superm1> i suppose i worded that poorly, did you mean yes to the former or latter?
[16:23]  * tseliot missed the "or"
[16:24] <tseliot> yes, they are separate problems
[16:25] <superm1> ah okay
[16:25] <superm1> so the first one is what would need such a case statement to flag on the broken model #
[16:26] <tseliot> yep
[16:29] <tseliot> superm1: if you want you can add a comment in the 1st report and ask upstream directly about adding the quirk
[16:29] <superm1> tseliot, so the thing is i think that's actually a problem on all synaptics touchpads though, is it not?
[16:30] <superm1> i'm on a studio 1340 right now, and the same thing happens, but it's not as frequent because the buttons aren't built into the pad
[16:30] <tseliot> superm1: no as there are different kinds of Synaptics touchpads
[16:30] <superm1> but if i touch the top right and bottom left corners of the "pad" it will happen just the same
[16:31] <tseliot> superm1: therefore, if the touchpad has multi-finger detection (not emulation), a different solution can be found
[16:31] <superm1> ah
[19:56] <Sarvatt> jbarnes: seen this? xrandr broke in UMS somewhere between git20090630.cec9fc6f and git20090701.1e4784bf https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xrandr/+bug/394490
[20:03] <jbarnes> Sarvatt: hm, maybe 7e79fc?
[20:04] <jbarnes> from fdo bug #19578
[20:11] <Sarvatt> actually it might have been something in the xserver update at the same time
[20:11] <Sarvatt> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?h=server-1.6-branch&id=8d65439d5c950ea01ec8e1e4dd989aff0fb4c3f0
[20:11] <jbarnes> ah possible yeah
[20:11] <Sarvatt> uploaded that on july 1st
[20:52] <Sarvatt> yeah for sure it is an xserver problem, sorry about that jbarnes. one guy reverted to xserver-xorg-video-intel_2%3a<IP_ADDRESS>1+git20090611.6d062e9e-0ubuntu0sarvatt~jaunty_i386.deb
[20:52] <Sarvatt> and still had the problems
[20:52] <Sarvatt> when it was working before
[20:53] <jbarnes> cool
[20:53] <jbarnes> should be reported upstream if it hasn't been already
[20:58] <bryce> jbarnes, btw I finally went through all the 8xx reports that confirmed their problem on karmic alpha-2 and sent them up.  There were actually fewer than I initially estimated since some were dupes, and others were mis-tested.
[20:59] <bryce> there's another dozen tested/confirmed of 9xx bugs I'll be sending up hopefully today
[20:59] <Sarvatt> if its dri support in KMS dont they need mesa 7.6?
[21:00] <bryce> and then there's another 120 which no one's replied at all, that we can probably just close :-)  -- but I'm going to give them a couple more weeks to respond
[21:04] <jbarnes> bryce: cool
[22:40] <Sarvatt> do you want us to test the newer pixman on edgers server 1.6 branch at all? or any other packages that might have problems getting updated?
[22:46] <Sarvatt> yep for sure this is a problem in xserver 1.6.2 that will pop up when karmic updates to it https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/394490
[22:50] <Sarvatt> i'm knee deep in a ton of packaging and need to get it uploaded asap and am working at the same time if anyone else wouldnt mind upstreaming it, will try to do it later tonight if not
[22:55] <Sarvatt> uploading mesa on a 15kb/second cellphone connection is fun :)
[23:44] <RAOF> There we go.  One funky scanout bug filed at bug #398026
[23:51] <Sarvatt> hmmmm http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28897374/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-amd64.xserver-xorg-video-intel_2%3A<IP_ADDRESS>1%2Bgit20090710.4e4b947f-0ubuntu0sarvatt_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[23:52] <Sarvatt> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=aafcae79d17c1f802bc880d2142af7171fed75d8 ....?
[23:53] <Sarvatt> compiles fine on i386 but fails everywhere else


[13:59] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[16:35]  * arraybolt3 boots up the latest daily to see what happens
[16:35] <arraybolt3> hmm, still booting into an autologin KDE session
[16:36] <arraybolt3> and the casper version is fully up-to-date
[16:36] <arraybolt3> alright, so that's wrong
[16:37] <arraybolt3> the installer prompt session is there though...
[16:44] <arraybolt3> gah, I see what I did wrong
[16:45] <arraybolt3> slipped past vorlon too so I don't feel quite so bad :P
[22:52] <arraybolt3> ok, I have hit very strange behavior with the new kubuntu-installer-prompt.
[22:52] <arraybolt3> In a VM, it works fine.
[22:52] <arraybolt3> On physical hardware (HP Pavilion dv7) it instantly segfaults.
[22:53] <arraybolt3> Files are identical, ISO download is good, flash drive is good according to both balenaEtcher's verification and casper-md5check.
[22:53]  * tsimonq2 hands arraybolt3 a valgrind, a GDB, and a large hammer
[22:53] <arraybolt3> ...wha?!
[22:53] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2: thanks :P
[22:53] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: Warning, it will break your brain for like four hours the first goaround. :P
[22:53] <arraybolt3> meh, I've used both those tools before, no big deal.
[22:53] <arraybolt3> valgrind is slow though
[22:54] <tsimonq2> To be fair, it does a *lot*. ;)
[22:54] <arraybolt3> alright, hitting it with gdb and debuginfod
[22:55] <tsimonq2> <3
[22:55] <arraybolt3> this is the first time in my life I've had software I wrote have a hardware-triggered failure.
[22:55] <arraybolt3> which probably means I've been lucky up until now :P
[22:55] <tsimonq2> bah my gut tells me it's related to NM
[22:56] <tsimonq2> or perhaps the multi screen logic
[22:56] <arraybolt3> oh that could be true
[22:56] <arraybolt3> either that or my ancient NVIDIA card throwing a tantrum, but more likely that.
[22:57] <tsimonq2> old NVIDIA cards are prone to tantrums, I wouldn't rule that out so quickly ;P
[22:57] <tsimonq2> (I no longer have that opinion about new NVIDIA cards after talking to Mike btw)
[22:58] <arraybolt3> yeah this machine is old enough there aren't proprietary drivers for the card anymore.
[22:58] <arraybolt3> It's Nouveau or bust (or patch the NVIDIA drivers which is questionably legal and definitely risky)
[23:04] <tsimonq2> niceeeeeeee
[23:08] <arraybolt3> ooof, yeah I definitely shouldn't rule out the NVIDIA card, I have ample evidence that this machine is... on its last leg.
[23:09] <arraybolt3> (opened System Monitor and the graphics are berzerk)
[23:09] <arraybolt3> (looks like possible VRAM failure)
[23:09] <arraybolt3> and now a total system freeze. Nice.
[23:17] <arraybolt3> I don't see any obvious memory management errors looking at the code, so I'm going to hope it's a graphics driver issue.
[23:17] <arraybolt3> Switching to an Intel-based machine now.
[23:57] <arraybolt3> *an Intel-based machine with crummy Broadcom WiFi


[11:51]  * PaulW2U thinks nearly there - just 10 cloud summaries to be done
[16:19] <pleia2> seeing as how canonical+huge the cloud section is, we're going to bullet-point it this week
[16:20] <pleia2> maybe next week will also consider how important some of these items are
[16:20] <pleia2> I don't actually know much about how cloud-focused our readers are, maybe we should do a survey about what parts of the newsletter people like
[16:26] <pleia2> hmm, where is everyone else this weekend
[16:40] <pleia2> jose: can you lend your spanish-speaking-ness to the article in LoCo news to makes ure I got the important bit?
[16:43] <pleia2> also added one last article to Planet (haven't summarized yet)
[16:46] <PaulW2U> pleia2: re cloud articles and survey, I had same thoughts earlier too :)
[16:47] <pleia2> :D
[22:13] <PaulW2U> added another phone article and written summary
[22:14] <PaulW2U> need to reboot PC so shutting down until tomorrow


[09:20] <sagaci> head_victim:
[10:52] <head_victim> sagaci: pong
[11:11] <sagaci> would it be worth investigating state locos
[11:11] <sagaci> head_victim: ^
[11:12] <head_victim> sagaci: depends on if you believe in "build it and they will come" I guess.
[11:12] <head_victim> My logic is we don't have enough to staff a national loco properly so I can't imagine how well we'd go staffing individual state groups
[11:15] <head_victim> Happy to have some sort of trial for it, but I think we risk alienating most of the states
[11:17] <sagaci> the couple of people in each state?
[11:17] <head_victim> That and the large number of states with only one or two semi regualr contributors
[11:18] <sagaci> I'd say there's a lot of ubuntu contributors but loco contributors?
[11:19] <head_victim> Yeah, that's pretty much it. As well as vast numbers of Ubuntu Users not even knowing loco's exist
[11:21] <head_victim> More than happy for you to put it to the list as an option and see what reaction it gets.
[11:21] <head_victim> If we have 7 people put their hands up it might be worth a shot.
[11:23] <sagaci> 7 per state
[11:24] <head_victim> Even one energised person per state is more than we have now
[11:26] <sagaci> yup
[11:30] <head_victim> I'd be completely against formalising entire councils for each state
[11:31] <head_victim> But setting state organisers would be something worth investigating.
[11:31] <head_victim> My view is someone who is responsible for organising events. Not necessarily running them all themselves but providing assistance in getting them off the ground.
[11:32] <head_victim> We have lots of people keen but very few people putting up hands at the moment when it comes to event organising.
[11:36] <head_victim> I have to head off to do some other boring stuff but it's a good point you raise and happy to hear what others think on the topic.
[11:53] <ikt> anyone got a huawei 3g usb modem to work on 12.04?
[11:54] <sagaci> the e1762 worked
[11:57] <ikt> oh
[11:57] <ikt> tha'ts the one i've got here
[11:57] <ikt> it doesn't connect
[11:59] <ikt> GSM connection failed: (32) No cause information available
[12:10] <sagaci> at least it used to
[12:10] <sagaci> no fiddling but that would have been with 10.04/10, 11.04
[12:36] <ikt> sagaci, did you do anything special to get it working?
[12:59] <sagaci> nope, just connected, and went through the network manager setup and used the internode as the apn
[12:59] <sagaci> the internode option from the menu
[13:00] <sagaci> I plugged it in and you have to wait a good 30-45 seconds sometimes


[00:00] <wxl> i should build a desktop one of these days
[00:01] <wxl> would be nice to have a massive amount of ram so i could test all the images at the same time XD
[00:01] <lynorian> wxl vt-x about two years ago
[00:01] <lynorian> 16 GB here
[00:02] <wxl> at present i have a surplus of HDMI tvs. i could use them for a monitor :)
[00:03] <wxl> i currently have a mere 6GB :(
[00:05] <wxl> i can take 16 GB tho
[00:05] <wxl> should probably pick up to 8GB sticks
[00:18] <tsimonq2> wxl: o
[00:18] <tsimonq2> wxl: m
[00:18] <lynorian> hmm not many people finding bugs in sylpheed lately but I just found one.
[00:18] <tsimonq2> wxl: g
[00:18] <tsimonq2> wxl: Where is it?
[00:18] <wxl> dude
[00:18] <tsimonq2> wxl: I can't find it
[00:18] <wxl> are you stoned? :)
[00:18] <wxl> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/372/builds
[00:19] <tsimonq2> All it shows is ready and rebuolding
[00:19] <tsimonq2> *rebuilding
[00:19] <wxl> yes
[00:19] <wxl> that's the problem
[00:19] <wxl> it's been rebuilding since about 1600 UTC
[00:19] <tsimonq2> O__o
[00:19] <tsimonq2> So where are the logs?
[00:19] <wxl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing#When_images_build
[00:21] <tsimonq2> wxl: Yes, I'm as stoned as your pet rock :P
[00:23] <tsimonq2> wxl: (see, it's a joke because you don't have a pet rock, and I'm as high as a nonexistent thing...oh whatever it was a lame joke anyways :P)
[00:23] <wxl> um, i do have a pet rock
[00:23] <wxl> so
[00:23] <wxl> you're
[00:23] <wxl> hella
[00:23] <wxl> stoned
[00:23] <tsimonq2> SHIT
[00:23] <tsimonq2> :P
[00:23] <wxl> !language | tsimonq2
[00:23] <tsimonq2> Oh that's right
[00:23] <tsimonq2> Urgh
[00:23] <wxl> XD
[00:23] <wxl> better get on it
[00:23] <wxl> adam's getting pissy
[00:24] <tsimonq2> wxl: How can you tell he's pissy?
[00:24] <tsimonq2> wxl: WTF WHERE IS MY LOGGGG https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntuhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntuhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntuhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntuhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntuhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/
[00:24] <tsimonq2> +livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntuhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntuhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntuhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntuhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntuhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntuhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage
[00:24] <wxl> 1622 < infinity:#ubuntu-release> tsimonq2: Lemme know when you've sorted it (or just want me to do it), I'm blocking on you.
[00:24] <tsimonq2> /+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntuhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntu
[00:24] <tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/lubuntu
[00:25] <tsimonq2> wxl: Ok so HELLLPPP MEEE
[00:25] <tsimonq2> It's not there
[00:26] <tsimonq2> wxl: Seeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
[00:26] <tsimonq2> Neener neener neener :P
[00:36] <wxl> lynorian: not sure you saw on -release but make sure to double check thumbnailing on a/v in pcmanfm, not to mention a/v players
[00:37] <wxl> changes documented here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ffmpeg/+bug/1664403
[00:51] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop i386 [Xenial 16.04.2] has been updated (20170216)
[00:52] <wxl> ^^
[00:52] <wxl> don't forget to email the list, tsimonq2
[00:52] <tsimonq2> wxl: k in like a couple mins
[00:59] <lynorian> wxl I downlaoded an ogg and it shows up correctly in pcmanfm
[01:00] <lynorian> I get some wierd oss4 error message but playback works
[03:51] <lynorian> tsimonq2, well at least ogg playback works
[03:51] <lynorian> I get a wierd error message about oss4 which I am pretty sure we do not ship and is deprecated
[03:52] <lynorian> it still plays audio so I do not think it is critical
[03:52] <lynorian> just annoying
[18:48] <wxl> anyone want to do the auto resize tests?
[21:13] <tsimonq2> wxl: Did this get done yet?
[21:13] <wxl> no
[21:13] <tsimonq2> wxl: I won't be home for another hour yet :P
[21:14] <tsimonq2> wxl: Not and say we did? :P
[21:14] <wxl> feel free to call it as you wish
[21:14] <wxl> i'd probably recommend just going for it
[21:15] <tsimonq2> I think so too
[21:15] <wxl> the only one not done is auto-resize
[21:15] <wxl> maybe doing ONE Of those would be nice just to be completist
[21:17] <wxl> tsimonq2: you do have release notes done right?
[21:18] <tsimonq2> wxl: Almost
[21:18] <wxl> tsimonq2: ok well don't let infinity get the jump on you :)
[21:19] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop amd64 [Xenial 16.04.2] has been marked as ready
[21:19] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop i386 [Xenial 16.04.2] has been marked as ready
[21:20] <tsimonq2> wxl: Bah, Lubuntu can wait an hour to release our announcement if needed. No big deal.
[21:21] <wxl> okie dokie
[21:23] <tsimonq2> wxl: :)
[21:24] <tsimonq2> wxl: Reset link for lubuntu.me please? :P
[21:26] <wxl> oh for god's sake man
[21:26] <wxl> would you get a password manager?
[21:27] <Unit193> !info keepassx
[21:27] <wxl> yikes
[21:27] <wxl> i use the daily ppa
[21:27] <Unit193> 0_o
[21:28] <wxl> https://launchpad.net/~keepassx/+archive/ubuntu/daily
[21:29] <Unit193> wxl: You see the fork of it?
[21:29] <wxl> which?
[21:29] <Unit193> http://bugs.debian.org/855173
[21:31] <wxl> ooh qt too
[21:33] <tsimonq2> wxl: I have one :P
[21:33] <wxl> tsimonq2: well then freaking use it and stop locking yourself out!!!!
[21:33] <tsimonq2> wxl: Fine :P
[21:34] <wxl> Unit193: if you see that make it in debian, let me know!
[21:35] <Unit193> Fine, will do.
[21:36] <wxl> ooh favicons


[09:09] <studio-user511> hi
[16:03] <blanki> hi guys does anybody uses pcloud ?
[19:48] <studio-user951>  /join help
[23:35] <emitattuo> Hi, I have 16.10, and I'm trying to get my Novation Ultranova, which has a built-in audio/MIDI interface, to work.
[23:40] <emitattuo> I was told it's class-compliant, so I'm not sure what issue I'm running into.
[23:45] <emitattuo> Neither aplay -l or amidi -l show anything relevant.
[23:46] <emitattuo> I do see it on lsusb, however.
[23:50] <emitattuo> Hello
[23:50] <emitattuo> How are you, Elysion?
[23:51] <Elysion> Hey, good thanks, yourself?
[23:51] <emitattuo> All right, just trying to get my new synth to work, but running into a wall.
[23:55] <emitattuo> Elysion, I don't suppose you have any ideas of what to try next?  Neither aplay -l or amidi -l show anything relevant, but I do see it on lsusb.
[23:57] <Elysion> I'd love to help, but Im quite new to ubuntu studio and linux audio in general
[23:58] <emitattuo> In that case, is there anything I could try to help you with?


[04:24] <Guest77033> hi. I recently switched over from mint sarah to ubuntu studio... am having a problem installing the i2p network
[04:25] <Guest77033> I run sudo apt-add-repository ppa:i2p-maintainers/i2p
[04:25] <Guest77033> sudo apt-get update
[04:25] <Guest77033> sudo apt-get install i2p
[04:26] <Guest77033> and before it finishes get
[04:26] <Guest77033> E: Unable to locate package i2p
[04:31] <Guest77033> ^^ this error does it mean the software package is unavailable in the software repository?
[05:27] <Guest77033> nobody?
[05:59] <krytarik> Guest77033: Do you get any other error messages in the process?  Otherwise, from all I can tell, it should work.
[06:01] <Guest77033> krytarik I get an error message just as it ends
[06:03] <Guest77033> krytarik is it possible I need to install some new packages instead of what is mentioned in the link https://geti2p.net/en/download/debian#ubuntu
[06:04] <Guest77033> it always ends with message    E: Unable to locate package i2p
[06:05] <krytarik> Guest77033: What Ubuntu Studio version are you using anyway?
[06:05] <Guest77033> yaktaky yak
[06:06] <Guest77033> I think under xfce
[06:06] <Unit193> Has packages up until Xenial.
[06:06] <Guest77033> it was the latest version i installed
[06:06] <Unit193> s/until/though/
[06:11] <Guest77033> yes so the only ppa
[06:11] <Guest77033> I have added to my synaptic manager is http://ppa.launchpad.net/i2p-maintainers/i2p/ubuntu
[06:11] <Guest77033> but I stll get an error E: Unable to locate package i2p
[06:12] <Guest77033> maybe it isn't available yet in that package?
[06:12] <krytarik> Yep, like Unit193 just said.
[06:13] <Guest77033> so I need to roleback the software repository site?
[06:15] <krytarik> Well, you can just wait and see if they build packages for Yakkety sometime too - it's not even released yet.
[06:16] <Guest77033> so can't I run xenial packages then?
[06:18] <krytarik> Well, you can try of course, might give dependency issues though.
[06:19] <Guest77033> ahh ok
[06:20] <Guest77033> thanks guys
[06:21] <krytarik> Sure.
[06:21] <Guest77033> even the .jar dosen' work


[00:01] <awilkins> Blech, don't you just love to hate MS sometimes.
[00:02] <awilkins> I just found a weird file called DCBC2A71-70D8-4DAN-EHR8-E0D61DEA3FDF.ini my user profile
[00:02] <awilkins> It's an archive of 128-byte compressed thingies
[00:03] <awilkins> Turns out it's where WMP8 stores it's "recent files" tripe
[00:03] <awilkins> I wasted 10 minutes figuring out what that was
[00:25] <uws> I'm a little concerned.
[00:25] <Peng> Me too.
[00:25] <uws> If indeed Bazaar is becoming a GNU Project... (see http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/91263 for evidence)
[00:26] <uws> ...will I be forced to grow my beard as a happy Bazaar user?
[00:26] <uws> Please clarify. Love, /me.
[00:26] <Peng> Just a moustache will be acceptable.
[00:28] <Peng> You could always switch to Mercurial. They only require lustrous eyebrows.
[00:30] <uws> Okay. For Gnome I'm still using SVN on a daily basis... centralized haircuts perhaps?
[04:29] <bob2> http://www.advogato.org/person/apenwarr/diary/371.html <- git luvin'
[05:17] <Parker-> awww
[05:17] <Parker-> Isn't that cute
[05:45] <jamesh> bob2: is he really saying that it is remarkable that you can store files in less space than a conventional filesystem if you don't want to modify them?
[06:11] <ferringb> jamesh: compression (rw on compressed blocks is a pita), fs overhead, etc...
[06:12] <ferringb> 'course that guy is calling git a fs, which is a bit odd in my eyes ;)
[06:14] <jamesh> ferringb: I realise that.  I am just a bit surprised that he doesn't appear to realise it
[06:15] <jamesh> of course, that might just indicate that the jobs he is working on fit the model of git's object database
[07:40] <speakman> hi ppl!
[08:35] <ubotu> New bug: #148783 in olive ""Unknown error" (DBus) when trying to commit" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/148783
[09:00] <james_w> http://chistera.yi.org/~adeodato/blog/entries/2008/03/05/one_day_with_git.html
[09:00] <james_w> dato: hi. Are you around?
[09:01] <awilkins> Hmm, VCS are filesystems ; git was even written by the king of filesystem design, Torvalds
[09:04] <awilkins> It would seem that people like the pre-commit feature of git ; what would the chances of puttin it in bzr be?
[09:05] <awilkins> I have to admit, thinking about it, it would be pretty cool.
[09:06] <james_w> awilkins: what do you mean by pre-commit?
[09:07] <awilkins> This git add -p thing.... putting things into a sort of special "to be committed" revision is how I'm thinking about it
[09:07] <awilkins> Like "I'm reviewing all my diffs and this bit is ok, so I'll put it in pre-commit, where it will wait until I'm finished, but now lit no longer distracts me in diff operations because it doesn't show up"
[09:08] <awilkins> A bit like shelve in reverse, I suppose
[09:09] <dato> james_w: hi
[09:10] <james_w> hi dato. How are you?
[09:10] <james_w> awilkins: I think it should be possible. I'm not sure where it would fit, maybe a new command?
[09:11] <dato> james_w: I'm actually quite well, thanks. just suffering a bit with Uni, but I guess that's normal :-)
[09:11] <james_w> dato: yeah.
[09:11] <james_w> dato: thanks for the post, I found it very interesting.
[09:12] <awilkins> james_w: Reading the (horrible) man page, it also appears that you can just "pre-commit" hunks of the file.
[09:12] <james_w> awilkins: add --interactive?
[09:12] <dato> james_w: great
[09:13] <james_w> dato: and thanks for doing the packaging of bzr. I hope you'll keep doing it while you still use bzr, you do a great job.
[09:14] <james_w> dato: and I hope that you we can improve bzr so that you don't feel the need to leave.
[09:14] <awilkins> james_w: I'm not sure, that blog page you posted earlier says git add -p
[09:14] <awilkins> james_w: The --interactive mode is where you can commit just hunks, yes
[09:14] <dato> yeah. I would even continue to do it if nobody else is available, is doesn't need much time.
[09:14] <james_w> dato: cool. Thanks.
[09:15] <james_w> awilkins: yeah, it's quite nice.
[09:15] <dato> igc: around? I was impatient and took a stab at implementing bzr-fast-export.py. I didn't need to use any code from your fastimport plugin, though. also, I dubbed it (though still mostly unpublished) bzr-crude-export.py, as not to conflict with your prospective -export.py. would you like to take a look? I have no idea if I'm making good use of the bzrlib API or not.
[09:16] <james_w> awilkins: I think making it something you explicitly do on top would be ok. I think the "git add file; edit file; git commit" not committing the current state is something that we don't want.
[09:16] <dato> igc: it can import single branches, preserving merges, even -r 0..-1 merges. importing several related branches into a same git repository is next in my TODO.
[09:16] <james_w> awilkins: unless you have staged hunks perhaps.
[09:17] <awilkins> james_w: Yes, we don't want to let the "creeping evil" of git in by trying to adopt it's features
[09:17] <james_w> awilkins: :)
[09:17] <awilkins> THe comparison with git/vi is fair
[09:17] <awilkins> (I don't use git, it's windows non-nativeness puts me off)
[09:18] <awilkins> But people forget that more and more non-techy users are now having to use VCS systems
[09:18] <james_w> yeah, I think it might be. However I wouldn't mandate that all contributors to my project use vi.
[09:18] <james_w> that would be too much, so I'll let you use emacs, but that still excludes people.
[09:19] <awilkins> I have a hard enough time teaching non-programmers to use SVN
[09:19] <awilkins> I think git would be a bridge too far
[09:19] <igc> dato: hi. I'd be happy to take your work so far as a basis for mine
[09:20] <awilkins> dato: Could I see it too? My interest is seeing an example of fast-import format generation in a language I understand better than C.
[09:20] <igc> dato: it would be great to get things round-tripping as best we can between us
[09:20]  * awilkins may have to write mks-fast-export *shudder*
[09:21] <dato> http://chistera.yi.org/~adeodato/tmp/2008-03-05/bzr-crude-export.py is yesterday's version
[09:22] <dato> right now I was converting REVISION_LIST to a dict, and there's a bug with filenames that contain non-ascii, but that's easily fixed (haven't committed yet)
[09:22] <dato> oh, and I was hoping to diagnose some problem I was having with quotes
[09:22] <igc> dato: ok, let me know when you're happy with it and I'll bundle it inside fastimport if that's ok
[09:22] <awilkins> dato: You _know_ you should be uploading a bzr branch to that server, right? :-P
[09:23] <dato> igc: ack
[09:23] <igc> and open up the plugin to multiple committers
[09:23] <awilkins> Or maybe you could both just start a launchpad branch for it
[09:23] <dato> awilkins: well, tbh I was unsure where to put it, and whether to try git *g*
[09:24] <dato> no, seriously, I'll get this figured out soon
[09:25] <dato> igc: is two revision_trees + changes_from + get_file_text the proper way to do it?
[09:26] <dato> igc: answer whenever you can, in some hours or days ;)
[09:27]  * dato leaves for class now.
[09:27] <igc> dato: I hadn't thought about it yet sorry :-)
[09:28] <igc> I'll think about it today, ask abentley, etc.
[09:28] <dato> igc: yeah, np.
[09:28] <dato> oh, that'd be awesome, but feel no pressure.
[09:28] <dato> bbl
[10:31] <lifeless> less ~/bin/drop-caches
[10:31] <lifeless> #!/bin/sh
[10:31] <lifeless> # get written data to disk (not that its guaranteed)
[10:31] <lifeless> sync
[10:31] <lifeless> # (drop the unmodified pages)
[10:31] <lifeless> echo 1 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
[10:31] <lifeless> LarstiQ: ^
[10:32] <poolie> lifeless: that tee command is not write
[10:32] <poolie> right
[10:32] <poolie> it does not write :)
[10:32] <poolie> you need um
[10:32] <soren> lifeless: Why 1?
[10:33] <poolie> 1 for on
[10:33] <soren> No.
[10:33] <LarstiQ> 1 for pagecache
[10:33] <soren> 1 to free pagecache.
[10:34] <soren> 3 to free both pagecache, dentries and inodes (i.e. everything that can be freed).
[10:34] <soren> -NOCONTEXT, so Idon't know what you're trying to do exactly, but I find that usually 3 is what people really want.
[10:35] <LarstiQ> 3 does make it slower
[10:35] <LarstiQ> soren: what we're doing is looking at cold cache startup time
[10:35] <soren> s/NOCONTEXT/ENOCTXT/, obviously.
[10:42] <jamesh> lifeless: I uploaded a pair of branches to implement half of my proposed changes to bzr-dbus
[10:43] <jamesh> lifeless: with those changes applied, it should provide equivalent functionality
[11:25] <mrevell> beuno: Did you get the Ogg file?
[11:26] <beuno> mrevell, yeap, thanks!  Ping me when it's up on Launchpad blog and I'll post on the planet
[11:27] <mrevell> cool, will do
[11:51] <lifeless> soren: its changed since I first wrote the script :)
[11:51] <lifeless> soren: thanks for th details
[12:08] <soren> lifeless: Hm... Not that it matters much, I'm sure it's always been this way, actually.
[12:29]  * spiv likes "man proc"
[13:42] <beuno> james_w, this might be useful: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-March/000395.html
[13:47] <james_w> beuno: thanks.
[14:15] <james_w> beuno: I forgot to bring my wiki login password. Is it ok if I add to the page at the weekend?
[14:15] <beuno> james_w, it's alright, I'll add the bits you sent and you can tweak it if you feel it's not well represented
[14:16] <beuno> just thought I'd poke you to do work for me  :p
[14:16] <james_w> :-)
[14:55] <ubotu> New bug: #199147 in bzr-svn "svn: revision identifiers don't work even in bzr-svn branches" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199147
[15:01] <lazy1> How do I view the log for a directory (including all files and subdirectories)
[15:02] <beuno> lazy1, just do:  bzr log dir/
[15:02] <james_w> lazy1: that doesn't work right at the moment I'm afraid.
[15:02] <beuno> james_w, no?  I ust fired it off and it seemed to work fine
[15:02]  * beuno re-checks
[15:03] <lazy1> It shows only the log for the directory, but not for the files inside
[15:03] <james_w> beuno: it shows the first revision that adds the dir, at least for me.
[15:03] <beuno> aaah, that's right
[15:03] <james_w> and maybe renames of the directory.
[15:03] <beuno> lazy1, listen to james_w  :D
[15:03] <ubotu> New bug: #132191 in bzr-gtk (universe) "installs unuseable desktop file to bzr commit-notify" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132191
[15:03] <lazy1> I will, thanks
[15:04] <lazy1> james_w, any intentions to implement this?
[15:04] <james_w> lazy1: yes, there is. I can't remember what is blocking it at the moment.
[15:04] <lazy1> OK, thanks
[15:10] <ubotu> New bug: #199150 in bzr "AssertionError during merge of two branches with similar content but no shared base revision" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199150
[15:29]  * beuno waves to jelmer
[15:30] <jelmer> hey beuno
[15:30] <beuno> how was your flight?
[15:30] <jelmer> I came closer than ever to missing it
[15:30] <jelmer> but other than that it was ok :-)
[15:31] <jelmer> anything interesting happening @ the sprint today?
[15:31] <beuno> jelmer, no fire alarm yet, if that's what you're hinting at
[15:32] <jelmer> I meant more in terms of topics that have been discussed :-)
[15:32] <beuno> launchpad bashing was fun
[15:32] <jelmer> ah, heh
[15:33] <beuno> and the gpg-signing bit was interesting too
[15:33] <jelmer> that's probably the only nice thing about closed software from a user pov
[15:33] <Odd_Bloke> jelmer: I was about to phone you for bzr-svn support, but spiv helped me out. :p
[15:33] <Faithful> Hi, can I use Bazaar is binary files like jpg or autocad drawings?
[15:33] <jelmer> you can complain about stuff that sucks without being told "patches are welcome" ;-)
[15:33] <jelmer> Odd_Bloke, :-)
[15:33] <jdong> Faithful: yes
[15:34] <Faithful> and it still does diffs of revisions?
[15:34] <jdong> umm... internally, yes. If you try to diff two revisions with binary changes, I don't know what it'll display
[15:34] <spiv> jelmer: I now have a svn-import of Twisted at http://people.ubuntu.com/~andrew/twisted/.  Thanks!
[15:35] <jelmer> spiv: w00t
[15:41] <awilkins> Ok, % formatting a string ; why doesn't this work "my %s string %s %s" % ["sexy", "is", "cool"]
[15:41] <elmo> % () not % []
[15:42] <awilkins> Hmm, better
[15:42] <awilkins> Still getting error, but different error :-)
[16:14] <ubotu> New bug: #199166 in bzr "Move revisionloader.py into core" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199166
[16:31] <bast> hi everyone
[16:31] <bast> i've a strange problem
[16:32] <bast> i use bzr all the time
[16:32] <bast> i manage a lot of project with it
[16:32] <bast> and suddendly i can'to anything with it
[16:32] <bast> bzr status/branch/commit/ etc
[16:32] <bast> nothing works
[16:32] <bast> my processors is used at 100%
[16:33] <bast> no output
[16:33] <bast> i don't understand :s
[16:40] <awilkins> Try the same command with --no-plugins
[16:45] <phanatic> beuno: you shouldn't have said that about the fire alarm... see what happened :P
[16:46] <bast> awilkins: nothing changes
[16:47] <bast> obliged to do a ctrl+Z then to kill
[16:48] <luks> check ~/.bzr.log
[16:50] <bast> luks: i'w watching it
[16:52] <bast> 0.158  encoding stdout as sys.stdout encoding 'UTF-8'
[16:52] <bast> 0.159  bzr arguments: [u'init']
[16:52] <bast> 0.160  looking for plugins in /Users/bast/.bazaar/plugins
[16:52] <bast> 0.160  looking for plugins in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/plugins
[16:52] <bast> 0.160  Plugin name __init__ already loaded
[16:52] <bast> 0.160  Plugin name __init__ already loaded
[16:52] <bast> 0.214  encoding stdout as sys.stdout encoding 'UTF-8'
[16:52] <bast> 0.444  created control directory in file:///private/tmp/
[16:52] <bast> 0.452  creating repository in file:///private/tmp/.bzr/.
[16:52] <bast> 0.464  creating branch <bzrlib.branch.BzrBranchFormat6 object at 0x1c1c890> in file:///private/tmp/.bzr/
[16:52] <bast> my processor is at 100%
[16:52] <bast> and the init on an empty dir
[16:53] <bast> isn't finished
[16:53] <bast> i have a macbook on mac os x
[16:53] <luks> hmm
[16:56] <bast> i used it all the time and it begin to error with no reason
[16:56] <bast> i have python 2.5.2
[16:56] <bast> bzr 1.2
[16:57] <luks> I don't really know how to debug something like this
[16:58] <luks> `python -m trace --trace /path/to/bzr` is what I personally would do, but that's extremly verbose and only useful if you know some python
[16:59] <bast> i don't know python :s
[17:00] <luks> well, you can still try and see where it ends
[17:00] <luks> but as I said, expect lots of text in the terminal :)
[17:07] <poolie> luks, bast: what are you trying to do?
[17:07] <bast> i tried another shell
[17:07] <bast> :s
[17:07] <bast> nothing change
[17:08] <bast> to know where is the bzr command it's whereis no ?
[17:08] <phanatic> http://changelog.complete.org/posts/698-If-Version-Control-Systems-were-Airlines.html
[17:08] <luks> poolie: find out why bzr hangs
[17:09] <poolie> on unix, try pressing ctrl+backslash?
[17:10] <bast> i'm on mac os
[17:10] <bast> it's don't work
[17:11] <LarstiQ> phanatic: executive summary?
[17:14] <spiv> luks: isn't there an strace-like tool you can attach to a running process?
[17:14] <phanatic> LarstiQ: tla fork + BeOS competitor... :)
[17:14] <luks> I have no idea :)
[17:15] <poolie> it was funnier 15 years ago...
[17:17] <LarstiQ> phanatic: ah :)
[17:18] <awilkins> Gah, tinymce's new plugin style is annoying, it confuses JSEclipse
[18:12] <beuno> might be of interest: http://changelog.complete.org/posts/698-If-Version-Control-Systems-were-Airlines.html
[18:17] <LarstiQ> beuno: phanatic just mentioned that
[18:22] <beuno> LarstiQ, right, fire thing threw me off
[18:22] <LarstiQ> beuno: heh
[18:23] <mwhudson> getting thrown off the millbank tower would be unfortunate
[18:24] <LarstiQ> mwhudson: it would be a lot faster than walking all the stairs each day.
[18:25] <Toksyuryel> interesting
[18:25] <Toksyuryel> I'm not sure the author like bzr :(
[18:25] <Toksyuryel> seems like a fan of git =/
[18:26] <james_w> for a few days now at least.
[18:27]  * Toksyuryel supposes that once bzr's been rewritten in C or some other compiled language, more people will wake up to how awesome it is :)
[18:27] <dato> james_w: heh
[18:27] <james_w> Toksyuryel: that should be any day now.
[18:27] <beuno> james_w, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12471357/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.baz_1.4.2-5.4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[18:27] <TFKyle> hmm, someone should see if they can get bzr translated via. rpython :D
[18:28] <Toksyuryel> I'll use it as-is though... I don't care how much slower python is, I more than make up for in the time I'm not spending fighting with it to do what I want it to do
[18:29] <Toksyuryel> james_w: cool, I didn't realize it would be so soon, I figured they'd want to deal with all the bugs and missing features first, but seeing how fast this thing moves they'll probably show up soon enough anyway
[18:37] <orospakr> Toksyuryel, god, why?
[18:39] <beuno> james_w, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bazaar/1.4.2-5.3
[18:41] <Odd_Bloke> spiv: I just got http://paste.pocoo.org/show/31944/ using the stable 0.4 tip.
[18:44] <Odd_Bloke> Hmm, I also seem to be getting it with the latest stable.
[18:45] <Toksyuryel> orospakr: ?
[18:45] <orospakr> Toksyuryel, why would anyone want to rewrite bzr in a different language?
[18:48] <Toksyuryel> orospakr: There is a perception that bzr is "slow" because python is an interpreted language. While it is true that bzr the program would run a hell of a lot faster written in a compiled language such as C, most people miss that bzr is still faster than other VCSes because even though the code runs slower you get more work done faster because you aren't fighting with the software
[18:49] <Toksyuryel> orospakr: however, it's still a worthwhile change and it'll get a lot more people interested in bzr. and according to james_w it's almost done anyway :)
[18:49] <orospakr> That is my opinion, actually.  Hence my remark asking why anyone would want to rewrite it. :P
[18:49] <orospakr> ack.
[18:49] <orospakr> But the Python code has unit tests, doesn't it?
[18:49] <orospakr> Does this C implementation have all the tests and features that the original python version does?
[18:49] <luks> Toksyuryel: the fact that bzr is "slow" is not that much relevant to python
[18:49] <orospakr> I still with the Python version, thanks.
[18:49] <orospakr> s/I still/I'll stick/
[18:50] <james_w> Toksyuryel: sorry, I was being sarcastic.
[18:50] <orospakr> Toksyuryel, it really wouldn't be a worthwhile change.
[18:50] <james_w> It's exactly the opinion of the bazaar team that the increased ease of programming more than offsets any speed costs of an interpreted language.
[18:51] <Toksyuryel> james_w: oh, good; I was hoping such a rewrite would be saved until after essential features are implimented and most bugs worked out :)
[18:51] <orospakr> In fact, it would be a big waste of time.  If they want to fix any performance issues, they should profile the software and work on any problem spots.
[18:51] <orospakr> Which they have done, in fact.
[18:51] <orospakr> I don't find bzr slow, in fact.
[18:51] <orospakr> There are some facts for you. ;)
[18:53] <Toksyuryel> I remember someone mentioned before that it was in the plans, was implied to be very far off plans and happy to see that attention is being paid more where it's needed :)
[18:53] <james_w> Toksyuryel: I don't think it is anyone's plans.
[18:53] <LarstiQ> Toksyuryel: the option has been held open, but don't expect to see that happen
[18:54] <james_w> anyway, time to eat. Bye all.
[18:54] <LarstiQ> right
[18:54] <Toksyuryel> enjoy your meal
[18:54] <orospakr> Declaring a "rewrite in a compiled language" is the worst way to optimize software. :)
[18:55] <orospakr> Mostly because you go from having tested, working software to no software at all.
[18:55] <Toksyuryel> better than writting code that needs comments the length of a docteral thesis
[18:56] <Toksyuryel> but I don't think bzr is going to go there anytime soon :) too many features to add and bugs to fix
[18:57] <fredreichbier> hello
[18:58]  * Toksyuryel personally would still use bzr if it were written in BASIC or hell, even java- it'd still be faster to use than anything else because of the way it works
[18:59] <fredreichbier> how do i change the remembered default location of `bzr push`?
[18:59] <awilkins> bzr push --remember
[19:00] <Toksyuryel> anyway, time for bed for me... getting sleepy and incoherent :) good night everyone *waves*
[19:02] <fredreichbier> hm awilkins that didn't work. i just changed the value in ~/.bazaar/locations.conf, seems to work now
[19:02] <fredreichbier> thank you anyway
[19:03] <awilkins> bzr might work on IronPython one day, that's sort-of-compiled
[19:13] <apol> is there anybody from ide integrationg around?
[19:14] <apol> *integration :P
[19:16] <apol> if there isn't anyone, could anybody point me out who should I ask?
[19:41]  * apol feels alone
[19:49] <LeoRochael> This is probably a FAQ, but, I'm using the launchpad bzr packages for ubuntu, and there doesn't seem to be a bzr-1.2 compatible version of bzr-svn
[19:49] <dato> there isn't one yet
[19:50] <LeoRochael> can I compile from source or is bzr-svn 0.4.7 not compatible with bzr 1.2?
[20:07] <LeoRochael> or maybe the bzr-svn "trunk" has bzr 1.2 support?
[20:07] <mwhudson> i must admit i generally just do "cd ~/.bazaar/plugins; bzr get lp:bzr-svn svn"
[20:09] <yacc> lp:bzr-svn ?
[20:09] <LeoRochael> yacc: I assume it means the launchpad repository for bzr-svn
[20:10] <yacc> oh ;)
[20:10] <yacc> Is that a general shortcut?
[20:10] <LeoRochael> yacc: I suppose so, for launchpad hosted projects...
[20:13] <johnny> now if only launchpad was open source..
[20:13]  * johnny wants to hack on it..
[20:13]  * johnny wants XMPP messaging..
[20:16] <blueyed> Can you have multiple branches in a single directory? so that you can switch to one of them, commit and switch back?
[20:19] <johnny> i don't understand that workflow method personally..
[20:19] <LeoRochael> blueyed: bzr shelve perhaps?
[20:19] <johnny> but it seems like you can with hselv right?
[20:29] <LeoRochael> johnny: I can understand this workflow when you have a lot of external systems that point to your directory and you don't want to keep changing them to other directorys to keep two branches in parallel
[20:29] <LeoRochael> quick example
[20:29] <LeoRochael> say you're managing your ~/public_html with bzr
[20:30] <luks> use a lightweight checkout and 'bzr switch'?
[20:30] <bob2> blueyed: you can have a repository with multiple branches, then use "bzr switch" to switch a single checkout between them
[20:32] <johnny> hmm... LeoRochael   aha.. now i get it.. i do that all the time with monotone, but i wonder if i'm missing anything
[20:35] <zepard> hi people
[20:35] <zepard> I am wondering why the http://bazaar-vcs.org/ReleaseRoadmap is showing the latest version upcoming = 0.92
[20:37] <bob2> no one has updated it since september - guess lp has replaced it
[20:39] <zepard> ok its there for historical reasons I guess but google still indexing it first
[20:40] <zepard> the first page shows the 1.2 download though
[20:41] <zepard> :(
[20:42] <blueyed> my workflow is: branch the vcs-import branch from launchpad (for a mega-feature-foo branch) and while refactoring, I want to make changes there which should go to another, new branch "trunk".. so I'd like to switch to "trunk" (in the same directory, basically the current branch without the locally modified changes; needs to be created) and commit only some files there. Then switch back.
[20:43] <blueyed> http://bazaar-vcs.org/ReleaseRoadmap needs to redirect somewhere useful.. or needs an update (for a long time already).
[20:47] <zepard> redirecting would more simple but not smooth since the updated page is in lp.
[20:49] <zepard> an update then :)
[20:50] <zepard> since there is not a huge activity on this page
[20:57] <bob2> blueyed: that can work - branch from lp to some other location, then checkout that location somehwere and work in the checkout
[21:02] <blueyed> bob2: sure, but that would require me to change the directory for testing that subbranch/-feature.. think DocumentRoot entry in Apache..
[21:03] <blueyed> ..so it's far more comfortable to check this into the same other-feature branch, which is bad.
[21:08] <LeoRochael> blueyed: what about "bzr shelve" or "bzr switch"?
[21:09] <dato> MadCoder: I see you were the last to touch unquote_c_style() in 7fb1011. could you investigate, who is at fault here: http://dpaste.com/38299/
[21:10] <dato> er, EWIN
[21:13] <bob2> blueyed: eh, no
[21:14] <bob2> blueyed: you bzr switch amongst branches stored outside the checkout, which doesn't require you to move or edit different files
[21:31] <andrei_> hey guys! I love bzr :). quick question: are you going to participate on summer of code this year?
[21:32] <andrei_> cause i'd be interested, as a student
[21:33] <andrei_> i see something on http://bazaar-vcs.org/SummerOfCode
[21:33] <andrei_> but i guess these are the projects from last year, right?
[21:38] <mnemoc> hi, what's the command equivalent to svn export http://.... in bzr?
[21:38] <luks> bzr export http://...
[21:38] <mnemoc> uh
[21:39] <mnemoc> luks: thanks :)
[21:49] <blueyed> LeoRochael, bob2: I would certainly get away using "bzr branch ... new", "bzr shelve", "bzr switch new", "bzr unshelve", "bzr ci", "bzr switch ." or something similar, but sounds dirty.. ;) isn't git able to switch to another branch more easily in the current directory/checkout?
[22:00]  * mwhudson dumps the "efficiency over NFS thread" unread
[22:00] <mwhudson> am i missing anything?
[22:15] <mnemoc> can i list the tags on a remote location?
[22:25] <Peng> Oh, I didn't know you offered bzr under other licenses.
[22:39] <dato> Peng: ref?
[22:40] <Peng> Homepage.
[22:40] <Peng> "Free. Bazaar is available under the GPL v2 or later. If you want to embed Bazaar into your products under a different license, please contact us."
[22:40] <dato> ah
[22:41] <dato> thanks
[22:48] <Odd_Bloke> apol: You want beuno and Verterok, I think.
[22:49] <apol> um, hello beuno and Verterok?
[22:52] <beuno> apol, yeah, hello
[22:53] <Verterok> apol: hi :)
[22:53] <apol> i'm a kdevelop developer and i'd like to know how prepared is bzr to work with ide's
[22:54] <apol> are there any libraries and so?
[22:54] <apol> haven't investigated yet :P
[22:54] <Odd_Bloke> apol: http://bazaar-vcs.org/SprintLondonMarch08/Brainstorms#head-a1f0e77d00a77e7f4634334e12dd5703e44fd8aa has some thoughts from the sprint that is ongoing.
[22:55] <apol> is there anything of this done?
[22:55] <apol> beuno: Verterok: ^
[22:56] <beuno> apol, sorry, yeah
[22:56] <beuno> well, we've just started putting a plan together
[22:56] <beuno> so I can't point you to anything specific
[22:57] <beuno> but I can get back to you with pointers and some general information
[22:57] <Verterok> apol: for Java (aka Eclipse) I'm using bzr-xmloutput plugin
[22:57] <apol> beuno: ok, that's a good place to start :P
[22:57] <beuno> eclipse is using xml to talk to bzr
[22:57] <beuno> so there is no reason you can't do that today
[22:58] <beuno> apol, and visual studio integration is using an embedded python interpreter
[22:58] <beuno> apol, can you bind to python?
[22:59] <apol> beuno: well, I'm working on a kross plugin, that would enable this possibility
[22:59] <apol> that's why i was asking actually
[23:00] <beuno> apol, than you can talk to bzrlib directly
[23:00] <beuno> and it's fairly straightforward
[23:00] <beuno> let me get a link for you
[23:00] <beuno> apol, http://bazaar-vcs.org/Integrating_with_Bazaar
[23:01] <apol> thanks beuno
[23:01] <Verterok> apol: I'm looking http://kross.dipe.org/, and it seems to provide python bindingss
[23:02] <LeoNerd> I find quote a lot, I use "shelve" to take out changes, to "commit" the rest, then "unshelve" the others back in, in order to do a partial commit of my changes. Is there perhaps a way to do this more directly..?
[23:02] <apol> Verterok: yes sure, that's what i meant :P
[23:03] <apol> looks like integration using python is what i was looking for
[23:03] <Verterok> apol: yeap
[23:04] <apol> Verterok: why don't you use that on eclipse? can't bind to python?
[23:05] <Verterok> apol: Eclipse is Java based, for the moment there is no decent Java-python bridge
[23:06] <apol> oh ok
[23:06] <Verterok> apol: so, I use a wrapper, with multiple implementation, the current one uses bzr executable + xmloutput
[23:06] <apol> well, I'll look into that this weekend
[23:06] <Verterok> apol: when Jython reacchs 2.5, it will be jython based :D
[23:06] <Verterok> apol: great!
[23:07] <apol> maybe I'll try to apply on that kross+bzr thing for gsoc
[23:07] <apol> Verterok: yes i was thinking of jython
[23:07] <apol> seems like sun hired some hackers to work on it
[23:07] <Verterok> apol: it's in 2.3 compatibility, bzr needs 2.4 :(
[23:08] <Odd_Bloke> apol: lifeless or poolie are probably people to talk to regarding GSoC.
[23:08] <Verterok> apol: if you decide to apply for gsoc, please contact pooli
[23:08] <Verterok> Odd_Bloke: exactly :)
[23:09] <apol> Odd_Bloke: I would try to apply on the kdevelop side i think
[23:09] <apol> but i'll contact them anyway
[23:09] <beuno> apol, yes,, we really want IDE integration
[23:09] <beuno> so it's a good time to jump in and get a lot of help
[23:09] <Odd_Bloke> LeoNerd: What would you envision a more direct approach looking?
[23:10] <beuno> make sure you keep us updated on progress
[23:10] <beuno> and don't hesitate to contact me or the list directly
[23:10] <LeoNerd> bzr interactive-commit  =>
[23:10] <LeoNerd> Then it goes to a shelve-like yes/no list of hunks
[23:10] <LeoNerd> At the end, it asks  "Commit? (y/n)" and then offers to enter a message
[23:10] <apol> beuno: I will :) thanks
[23:11] <beuno> apol, thanks
[23:11] <LeoNerd> I.e. interactive commit would be literally like shelve + commit + unshelve, but with the yes/no reversed
[23:11] <apol> np
[23:15] <beuno> apol, if you could drop me an email anyway so I have your details when we have a document prepared and send them to you<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:16] <apol> beuno: are you from argentina? :P (i'm spanish/catalan)
[23:17] <beuno> apol, yeap, feel free to use spanish if it's easier for you  (so is Verterok)
[23:18] <apol> :P ok
[23:18] <apol> not really easier, but more familiar you know ;)
[23:18] <beuno> apol, I do  ;)
[23:20] <apol> sent
[23:22] <Odd_Bloke> LeoNerd: If you're interested in writing it, you could do that from a plugin.  It's probably too niche to go into the core, but I (and guys on the list) could probably give you some pointers.
[23:28] <LeoNerd> Niche?
[23:28] <LeoNerd> Heh.. I only mention it 'cause I'm having an argument with a darcs fan who says that's how darcs commit works :P
[23:28] <LeoNerd> I wondered if it's be nice to have in bzr, to wave back
[23:31] <Odd_Bloke> LeoNerd: It's probably non-trivial, and probably wouldn't get used by that many people.
[23:31] <Odd_Bloke> That said, if it's there, people will use it.
[23:32] <LeoNerd> Well, I for one would use it loads
[23:32] <LeoNerd> Almost every commit I make is shelve-assisted
[23:32] <Odd_Bloke> Me too, but I want to be able to assess my tree-state and perhaps make some modifications.
[23:32] <Odd_Bloke> So I probably wouldn't use it.
[23:33] <Odd_Bloke> However, if your workflow is different, that's cool.
[23:34] <james_w> sorry, I missed the start of this conversation. Are you discussing darcs record's hunk level commit?
[23:34] <LeoNerd> Yah
[23:34] <james_w> have you tried bzr's record plugin?
[23:34] <LeoNerd> Ah, no
[23:34] <LeoNerd> Shall look into that, thanks
[23:34] <james_w> http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrPlugins
[23:35] <james_w> http://projects.collabora.co.uk/~asabil/bzr/bzr_record/
[23:35] <Odd_Bloke> james_w: That second link is broken. :(
[23:36] <james_w> oh dear.
[23:37] <Peng> That's not good.
[23:38] <james_w> http://people.collabora.co.uk/~asabil/bzr/bzr_record/
[23:39] <james_w> Can someone edit the wiki page please?
[23:40] <Odd_Bloke> james_w: Done.
[23:41] <james_w> thanks.
[23:43] <Odd_Bloke> james_w: It seems that 'record' doesn't actually do commits, just creates patches of the changes you've made.
[23:43] <LeoNerd> Ah.. :/
[23:45] <Odd_Bloke> LeoNerd: That said, it demonstrates how to integrate the shelf stuff into a separate command.
[23:45]  * LeoNerd nod
[23:46] <james_w> Maybe we should post to the list for some clues on how to integrate it with commit.
[23:47] <Odd_Bloke> TBH, this functionality can be replicated with "bzr shelve && bzr commit -m '<message>' && bzr unshelve --all".
[23:47] <LeoNerd> Yes.. that's exactly what I do now
[23:48] <LeoNerd> I just sometimes get confused in my head and say yes when I mean no, or vice versa
[23:48] <LeoNerd> You have to shelve away the things you _don't_ want
[23:48] <LeoNerd> Whereas interactive commit would say yes to the things you _do_ want.
[23:48] <Odd_Bloke> Ah, yeah, I see.
[23:48] <james_w> I know a lot of people love "darcs record".
[23:50] <Odd_Bloke> LeoNerd: So the record plugin seems to have its various concerns fairly well separated, so a lot of what you want to do could fairly easily be scavenged. :)
[23:56] <james_w> night guys
[23:58] <Peng> I like "hg record", but it was weird to get used to after "bzr shelve".


[20:23] <YGOfan> hello there
[20:23] <YGOfan> does someone speak english please?
[20:24] <YGOfan> I need some japanese help
[20:26] <YGOfan> guys, hello?