[18:35] <lynorian> is lubot down again?
 Maybe lugito
[18:56] <lynorian> yeah sorry got the bots confused
[18:56] <lynorian> no more commit notifications for me
[19:04] <teward> bot is dead long live the bot
[19:48] <wxl> @tsimonq2: the weird ghost desktop files were fixed in libfm-qt 0.14.1-6 but it seems we're on -0. what gives?
[19:48] <wxl> @tsimonq2: actually debian is up to -8 now
 Simon's overworked with exams and crap
 only explanation
[19:56] <wxl> @teward001 for the last month? he's been doing patch pilot stuff in that timeframe.....
[20:00] <wxl> sigh i guess i need to sign up motu or whatever :/
 @teward001 [Simon's overworked with exams and crap], This
 @wxl [<wxl> @teward001 for the last month? he's been doing patch pilot stuff in that t …], Correct
 He had to handwrite 7 java programs
 HAND WRITE
 @UniversalSuperBox [He had to handwrite 7 java programs], *8
 wxl has upload access, why has it taken him a month?
 :P
[20:15] <wxl> because you said you would do it.
[20:15] <wxl> multiple times.
 I have also said that this is the most stressful academic push I've ever had
[20:16] <wxl> also the issue is a sync and i don't quite get that.
[20:16] <wxl> so wait we will i guess.
[20:16] <lynorian> I don't know much packaging but have gotten some of the sddm greeter customizing in the manual
 @wxl [<wxl> @teward001 for the last month? he's been doing patch pilot stuff in that t …], yes he's neglecting Lubuntu in favor of patch piloting.
 :P
 just kidding lol
 but he's had some recent academic chaos headaches
 as he said
 *picks up @tsimonq2 and locks him in a room to study*
[20:17] <lynorian> I remember AP exams and I only had 3 of them
 I took four this year, as well as the ACT, as well as FICB state, as well as finals, as well as starting college, as well as work, and misc school assignments
 I haven't had time for much
 that does sound crazy busy
 It's stressing me out
 wxl nagging me doesn't help. :P
 Please, JFDI
 If you have any questions, ask @acheronuk or @teward001 or someone else with upload access
 Things are improving but I'm not ready to come back completely yet
 > upload access < you mean to Phab?
 or repos?
 *isn't Core Dev yet*
 @teward001 [> upload access < you mean to Phab?], To nginx
 Because general packaging knowledge
 wxl is a Lubuntu Developer
 He has access to upload
 But decides that nagging me is easier :P
[20:38] <wxl> @acheronuk: do you have access/knowledge to sync libfm-qt from debian? we're well behind.
 He's a MOTu
 @wxl [<wxl> @acheronuk: do you have access/knowledge to sync libfm-qt from debian? we' …], Permission wise, yes. Being near a PC I can do that from now, no.
[20:40] <lynorian> @acheronuk you will not be away from a month will you
[20:41] <wxl> @acheronuk sometime in the near future is all that's needed. then i'll probably need a pcmanfm-qt no-change rebuild
[20:41] <lynorian> maybe lximage-qt as well
 I have been busy this week, but next few days I will have time I hope
[20:43] <wxl> that will be fine
[20:44] <wxl> btw simon has scheduled an ubuntu flavors hangup for our standup so that's a thing
[20:45] <kc2bez> ^ ?
[20:47] <lynorian> what do we join the flavors hangup with?
[21:03] <wxl> if anyone does want to join this ubuntu-flavors business https://meet.google.com/dzh-oycg-csx
[21:11] <kc2bez> I would but I am at an event for one of the kids.
[21:12] <wxl> understood
[21:13] <wxl> oh i guess we need to start our own meeting
[21:14] <wxl> that said
[21:14] <wxl> !standup
[21:15] <wxl> who's here?
 \o
[21:15] <lynorian> \o
[21:16] <wxl> anyone else/
[21:17] <wxl> ok i guess that's it then
[21:17] <wxl> why don't we go in order; i'll go last
 I can go, first
 since I have not much to say
 last 3 weeks has been really stressfull at work, I work in statistic office here and we found out that consumer price index have been mapnipulated. So, a lot is happening here, and not much time for lubuntu
[21:19] <wxl> whoa
[21:19] <wxl> well you did one thing that was pretty awesomre
 Giving that, the only thing I did this wee is the wiki page for porting gtk to qt.
[21:20] <wxl> that's the one
[21:20] <wxl> big stuff
 I hope that people can use it and complement it.
 And I'm still learning to pakcage python code, I thought it was easier...
 I hope I wouldn't have the buidl/compile mess of c++
 and I'm noty sure is better....
 anyway, still learning to package the lubuntu-update-notifier
[21:22] <wxl> oh i didn't know you were doing that.
[21:22] <wxl> oh excellent
 EOL/CR
[21:23] <wxl> good job!
[21:23] <wxl> @lynorian: you're up
[21:24] <lynorian> I got some more of sddm base configuration
[21:24] <lynorian> and how to change to a different theme
[21:24] <lynorian> Added many different screenshots
[21:25] <lynorian> added how to customize different shortcuts in Kcalc
[21:26] <lynorian> how to stop annoying notifications on vms from with power manager not finding a battery
 ^what's this?
 I'm not sure I've seen those notifications
[21:27] <lynorian> if you try to enable battery wathcer with no battery it gets an annoying notification every boot
 ooo, only on vm?
[21:28] <lynorian> or desktop
[21:28] <lynorian> thumbnails from lximage
[21:29] <lynorian> noted where slideshow pictures come from in lximage-qt
[21:30] <lynorian> andded recent files in lximage-qt
[21:31] <lynorian> I also had new effects in the effects and filters of vlc which still has a large amount of undocumented stuff
[21:31] <lynorian> but things like the compressor effect I don't really know that much about
[21:31] <lynorian> I also have been moving screenshots closer to the text that describes them when I add new text sometimes I drive too much of a wege
 in case of vlc, wouldn't be easier to link to the vlc manual? (or wiki)
[21:32] <lynorian> and there were a ton of screenshots
 I mean, vlc should be well documented in his site, not like lxqt.
 and focus in things that have weaker documentation.
[21:35] <lynorian> mostly windows screenshots though
[21:36] <wxl> that it?
[21:37] <lynorian> yes it was many different screenshots
[21:38] <wxl> i meant did you have anything else to add? we all know your work is plentiful and we are extremely grateful!
[21:38] <lynorian> I did also have a typo get fixed in upstream trojita
[21:38] <lynorian> that I reported
[21:38] <wxl> oh i saw that! that was cool :)
[21:40] <wxl> ok, i guess i'll go then
[21:40] <wxl> prepare for the spew
[21:40] <wxl>  * BUG TRIAGE
[21:40] <wxl>    * Started exploring apparently many issues related to brightness/backlight: bug 1829641
[21:40] <wxl>  * TASKS
[21:40] <wxl>    * Redirect forum.lubuntu.me to discourse.lubuntu.me https://phab.lubuntu.me/T80
[21:40] <wxl>    * Discourse mailing list mode/reply by email https://phab.lubuntu.me/T81
[21:40] <wxl>    * Backups for Discourse https://phab.lubuntu.me/T79
[21:40] <wxl>    * Added old info and generalized Ubuntu SSO https://phab.lubuntu.me/T35
[21:40] <wxl> * INFRASTRUCTURE
[21:40] <wxl>    * Restored and updated the testing wiki: https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/testing/
[21:40] <wxl>    * Did a major overhaul on the links page, removing deprecated social links, adding Discourse, generalizing Matrix, etc.: https://lubuntu.me/links/
[21:40] <wxl>    * Added Discourse ("forum") to the website menu
[21:40] <wxl>    * Added a link to the Discourse dev category on Phab
[21:40] <wxl>    * Announced Discourse to the mailing lists
[21:40] <wxl>    * Added GitHub logins to Discourse
[21:40] <wxl>  * OTHER UPSTREAM
[21:40] <wxl>    * Answered a question about when new touchpad settings are coming to Lubuntu: https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt-config/issues/405#issuecomment-493651102
[21:40] <wxl>  * MISCELLANEOUS
[21:40] <wxl>    * Answered LOTS of questions on Discourse
[21:40] <wxl>    * Put out a dumpster fire on the mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2019-May/012343.html
[21:40] <wxl>  * TODO
[21:40] <wxl>    * Make a SRU for usb-creator-kde stretching back to xenial through disco: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T51
 wxl: do you saw this right button touchpad thing?
 the two-finger tap?
[21:42] <wxl> the mac one?
 yup
 (I discovered this week that it existed)
[21:43] <wxl> my response (which i left here, not on the question) was that i saw it as a general libinput question
 That's the only configuration I don't know if it's present in 19.04
[21:43] <wxl> the linked question had an answer that solved it by libinput
 the other that I know are.
[21:44] <wxl> problem is i don't have the hardware to play with
 I have a dell xps m1210 (2006) I think I can play with.
[21:45] <wxl> ok
[21:45] <wxl> oh i plan to look a little deeper into the whole brightness thing
[21:49] <wxl> anyone else?
[21:52] <wxl> k i guess we're done :)
 I guess to
[22:18] <kc2bez> My apologies, that event took much longer than I expected.
[22:18] <kc2bez> I have a paste.
[22:18] <wxl> no problem
[22:18] <wxl> fire away
[22:18] <kc2bez> Found and reported bug 1829805
[22:18] <kc2bez> I have added some comments for things I have tried.
[22:18] <kc2bez> Based on the error, it seems as if the file system doesn't get created correctly but you can mount it from a live environment.
[22:18] <kc2bez> Confirmed bug 1829693
[22:18] <kc2bez> Haven't got back to look at it further due to the first bug.
[22:18] <kc2bez> Big news in bug 1826844
[22:19] <kc2bez> That is it from me.
[22:20] <wxl> cool thx
[22:20] <guiverc2> wxl, question: did you see the ubuntu.pad or pastebin or whatever I did?  (brightness, backlight)
[22:20] <wxl> guiverc2: i did. thank you very much!!!!!
[22:21] <guiverc2> :) anytime you've got monkey stuff I can do...
[22:21] <guiverc2> (ditto anyone)
[22:21] <wxl> wow that's really weird i didn't notice that, dan
[22:22] <wxl> does that happen with or without encryption?
[22:22] <kc2bez> I didn't try encryption. Next on the list I guess.
[22:23] <kc2bez> It seems weird that encryption would work.
[22:25] <kc2bez> I haven't tried today's ISO either.
[23:05] <kc2bez> No go on today's ISO and luks on BIOS or EFI both fail too.
[23:05] <kc2bez> Kernel panics all around.
 I'm here way late. I'm on my way to my mom's house for the weekend. I've created a repo on my github to help port redshift from gtk to qt and Hans has been giving me good advice on what to look out for since I tried the docs approach but didn't realize the latest docs are in C++ anyway so you have to take each line and make it Pyt
[23:12] <wxl> thanks Samuel. glad to hear things are coming along, however slowly and surely
[23:12] <wxl> kc2bez: the note about the filesystem being able to mount is kind of telling.
[23:12] <wxl> (in live)
[23:13] <wxl> you should add that to the bug report
[23:13] <kc2bez> I will add that to the report.
[23:13] <wxl> thanks
[23:18] <kc2bez> Any thoughts on logs I should poke at? The install log looks normal like it installed correctly and I don't think the system gets far enough to generate much.
[23:19] <wxl> the problem is i don't think you'll be able to get to any useful info
[23:20] <kc2bez> I was afraid of that.
[23:26] <kc2bez> Two mental roadblocks for me. 1) The live environment seems to work fine, In a way that seems to potentially rule out kernel issues. 2) What do we do different from other flavors besides DE and Installer. For DE see 1). For the installer, that hasn't changed since 19.04
[23:27] <wxl> the kernel has changed tho
[23:27] <kc2bez> True but why does the issue not present itself in live?
[23:28] <wxl> that i'm not sure of
[23:28] <wxl> maybe it's some edge case about how calamares does things that makes new grub and/or kernel grumpy
[23:29] <wxl> seeing a kernel panic makes me think it has to be, well, a kernel panic
[23:29] <wxl> issue i mean
[23:29] <kc2bez> It does point in that direction.
[23:30] <kc2bez> I can pull in 3.2.7 from stable CI and see if that is different.
[23:30] <wxl> that would be interesting
[23:30] <wxl> i mean we're going to have to bring it in anyways
[23:31] <kc2bez> I tested it after I packaged it so it did work at one point.
[23:36] <wxl> maybe kill two birds with one stone and do 3.2.8
[23:37] <wxl> btw why don't we have 3.2.7 uploaded? simon didn't do that for you?
[23:37] <kc2bez> I dunno, he asked me to put it in stable CI so I did.
[23:38] <wxl> uh
[23:38] <wxl> i'm not sure what he's thinking
[23:39] <wxl> could you email him and try to figure it out?
[23:40] <kc2bez> Sure, I can do that.
[23:40] <kc2bez> It doesn't seem to work any better though.
[23:40] <wxl> same problem huh
[23:40] <kc2bez> yup
[23:41] <wxl> sigh
[23:41] <wxl> well it would be nice to have newer cala anyways
[23:42] <kc2bez> True, we were able to drop some of the patches we had.
[23:43] <kc2bez> Seems like big differences in 3.2.8 though. We might need a updated KPMcore.
[23:44] <wxl> yeah i think that's true


[14:46] <bregma> tjaalton, Xmir branch at https://git.launchpad.net/~xmir-team/xorg-server/+git/xmir/?h=xmir-1.19 now builds and tests cleanly on Zesty if you can find the time to integrate into xorg-server
[14:56] <tjaalton> bregma: sweet, thanks! will do that next week when I'm back
[15:16] <greyback> alf_: On https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1667001   I think repowerd is innocent, suspect Mir/kms
[15:17] <greyback> I've attached the log you requested
[15:17] <alf_> greyback: thanks
[15:18] <greyback> alf_: the machine is by me if there's anything else I can offer you
[15:20] <alf_> greyback: if you are willing to recompile repowerd we may get some more hints about what's going wrong
[15:20] <greyback> alf_: Sure. I know it's not a high priority bug though, so only if you want
[15:21] <alf_> greyback: sure, let's do it now that it's hot :)
[15:21] <alf_> greyback: git clone lp:repowerd (assuming you have set the lp: shortcut for git)
[15:21] <greyback> I have
[15:23] <alf_> greyback: build repowerd the usual cmake way (no special options needed)
[15:23] <alf_> greyback: get the deps first of course
[15:25] <alf_> greyback: ... "sudo systemctl stop repowerd" to stop the system one, and from the build dir run the git version with 'sudo REPOWERD_LOG=console bin/repowerd'
[15:25] <alf_> greyback: make sure it works and you can see the same issue as before
[15:25] <greyback> ok
[15:28] <greyback> alf_: my build machine != my test machine, can I just copy over the repowerd binary, or do I need the tools too?
[15:29] <alf_> greyback: not yet, perhaps later depending on the results of our experiments
[15:32] <greyback> alf_: repowerd binary is 10mb!
[15:42] <greyback> alf_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24053613/ <- any idea?
[15:45] <alf_> greyback: do you have repowerd-2017.02 installed on that system?
[15:45] <greyback> alf_: no 2016.12+17.04.20161212.1-0ubuntu1
[15:46] <alf_> greyback: ok, then update (and stop the system repowerd again)
[15:46] <greyback> ok
[15:55] <greyback> alf_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24053671/
[15:55] <greyback> same issue with the newer repowerd
[15:56] <alf_> greyback: good
[15:57] <alf_> greyback: one thing to change to see if it makes a difference: make the turn_on() call to USC synchronous
[15:57] <alf_> greyback: so in src/adapters/unity_display.cpp
[15:58] <dandrader> alan_g, how do I get the top-left position of a miral::WindowInfo?
[15:58] <alan_g> dandrader: wi.top_left()
[15:58] <greyback> alf_: done, trying
[15:59] <alf_> greyback: in ::turn_on() change the dbus call to _sync and remove one "nullptr,"
[15:59] <greyback> alf_: already done ;)
[15:59] <alf_> greyback: ack
[15:59] <greyback> I am still surprised how big the binary is
[16:00] <dandrader> alan_g, ah, you mean windowIndo.window().top_left()
[16:00] <dandrader> *windowInfo
[16:00] <alan_g> dandrader: oh, right. yes
[16:00]  * alan_g isn't a good autocomplete function
[16:00] <greyback> alf_: yes it seems to block on that TurnOn dbus call, as the screen flickers
[16:02] <alf_> greyback: It's all the debug info I guess? The released binary is much smaller (~700kb)
[16:02] <greyback> alf_: yeah probably
[16:03] <alf_> greyback: ok, so this strongly indicates that repowerd is not doing anything strange, but let's experiment a bit more
[16:04] <alan_g> c++ debug symbols are BUG
[16:04] <alf_> greyback: with the screen on stop repowerd (ctrl-c)
[16:05] <alf_> greyback: i.e. I want the backlight to stay on
[16:06] <greyback> yep
[16:07] <alf_> greyback: now just turn USC rendering on/off manually to see what behavior you get: sudo gdbus call --system --dest com.canonical.Unity.Display --object-path /com/canonical/Unity/Display --method  com.canonical.Unity.Display.TurnOff "all"
[16:08] <greyback> alf_: I've actually gone further. A while ago I made this tool: https://code.launchpad.net/~gerboland/+git/display-configurator
[16:08] <greyback> alf_: just extending the mir display config tool, adding display power on/off stuff
[16:09] <greyback> alf_: if I ask mir to turn off the display, and then on, the on causes the same flicker
[16:09] <alf_> greyback: ok, just wanted to test if the backlight state affects this at all
[16:09] <alf_> greyback: it seems not
[16:09] <greyback> alf_: ack
[16:10] <alf_> greyback: ok, so repowerd is out... anything interesting in /var/log/lightdm/unity-system-compositor.log
[16:12] <alf_> greyback: or in /var/log/syslog for that matter? Any drm kernel messages?
[16:20] <greyback> alf_: I tore it down to the simplest elements: mir_demo_server_basic and my test client. From Mir: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24053776/
[16:20] <greyback> there's a small complaint from kms about invalid argument for Gamma setting
[16:20] <greyback> but I see nothing at all relevant in syslog or dmesg
[16:22] <greyback> actually I get the flicker when I turn off the display too
[16:24] <greyback> and setting mir power mode to 1 (on) does not enable the display again
[16:24] <greyback> I have to kill the client to get the display to turn back on
[16:29] <alan_g> greyback: I just submitted a QtMir MP that ran into LTTng errors that seem unrelated. Is there a known problem?
[16:29] <greyback> alan_g: news to me
[16:29] <greyback> dandrader|afk: ^^
[16:31] <alan_g> Hmm, seems to be just my MP.
[16:32]  * alan_g can't ignore it
[16:38] <alf_> greyback: I am out of easy-to-test ideas. I guess next step would be to check if something wrong is going on at the Mir platform/backend level, and if everything is fine there, too, then it's probably a driver or hardware issue.
[16:41] <greyback> alf_: ack. I'm updating the bug with all I've found, but I expect it's driver/hardware
[17:12] <alan_g> greyback: not sure what the cause is, but after "apt update" it is happening locally on a clean lp:qtmir. :(
[17:13]  * greyback trying


[00:54] <Captainkrtek> hello
[01:03] <Rocket2DMn> wow thta was exhausting
[01:03] <Rocket2DMn> just updated all the bugs that were fixed in natty, about 50 of them
[01:03] <Captainkrtek> heh
[01:03] <Captainkrtek> Im about to get started on some more docs
[01:03] <Rocket2DMn> ive only been working on ubuntu-docs, i  might do a fresh install of natty this weekend on my desktop though
[01:04] <Rocket2DMn> then i can work on natty docs moving forward
[01:04] <Captainkrtek> been working on ubuntu-docs
[01:04] <Captainkrtek> in natty now :)
[01:04] <Rocket2DMn> my old laptop has natty but it doesnt support unity
[01:05] <Captainkrtek> what are you using then?
[01:05] <Captainkrtek> (inplace of unity)
[01:05] <Rocket2DMn> it falls back to the classic desktoip
[01:06] <Captainkrtek> ahh right
[01:08] <Rocket2DMn> im running lucid right now on ext3 filesystems
[01:08] <Captainkrtek> im running natty on ext4
[01:08] <Captainkrtek> 6 cores :)
[01:08] <Rocket2DMn> id like to upgrade to ext4, and im not sure if my current /home will work given how much configuration may have been updated
[01:08] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[01:09] <Captainkrtek> im still getting used to unity
[01:09] <Captainkrtek> it's pretty different
[01:09] <Rocket2DMn> i guess i can try with my existing /home, if it has issues ill reformat the partition and install ext3
[01:09] <Rocket2DMn> err ext4 i mean
[01:09] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[01:10] <jbicha> Rocket2DMn: for best results, I'd do a clean partition of ext4 and then paste your former /home into it
[01:11] <Captainkrtek> yeah ^
[01:11] <Captainkrtek> if you need a server to store the files while moving them I can provide an ftp
[01:11] <Rocket2DMn> ugh, means i need an ext3 or ext4 partition to copy from
[01:11] <jbicha> btrfs might be usable for 11.10
[01:11] <Rocket2DMn> the problem with putting them on a ftp or other filesystem is that permissions will be lost
[01:11] <Captainkrtek> hmm
[01:12] <Captainkrtek> use Ubuntu One?
[01:12] <Rocket2DMn> i suppose i can format an old external HD as ext4 for now
[01:12] <jbicha> isn't almost everything in your /home the same permissions? .gnupg is the only thing I'd care about
[01:12] <Rocket2DMn> actually it wont be big enough..
[01:12] <jbicha> and I'd be selective about which . folders I'd transfer
[01:13] <jbicha> the performance difference between ext3 and ext4 probably won't matter too much if it's too big of a hassle
[01:13] <Rocket2DMn> most of the gnome stuff will be irrelevant
[01:13] <Rocket2DMn> jbicha, thats whta i was thinking as well
[01:14] <Rocket2DMn> that's why i might just do ext4 for the installation but leave my home as ext3 and hope the difference between settings in 10.04 and 11.04 are not too significant that the software cant compensate
[01:18] <Rocket2DMn> guess i better prepare some backups and get those out of the way
[01:19] <Captainkrtek> trying to do this: <app>Files & Shares</app>
[01:19] <Captainkrtek> mallard doesnt like ampersands in <app>
[01:22] <Captainkrtek> any ideas?
[01:22] <Captainkrtek> I could just replace it with "and"
[01:23] <Rocket2DMn> can you use a character code or escape the ampersand?
[01:24] <Captainkrtek> I found a workaround
[01:24] <Captainkrtek> choosing a different app
[01:24] <Captainkrtek> heh
[01:24] <Rocket2DMn> boo
[01:24] <Captainkrtek> well
[01:25] <Captainkrtek> actually makes the doc. flow better
[01:25] <Captainkrtek> by using this shortcut
[01:26] <jbicha> & is how you do it
[01:26] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, this sound okay to you? "Open the <app>Home Folder</app> shortcut from the <gui>Unity Launcher</gui>"
[01:26] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, okay
[01:27] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, thanks :)
[01:27] <jbicha> it's just called the launcher, no need to add Unity to the front of it
[01:27] <Captainkrtek> k
[01:27] <Captainkrtek> working on the files-share doc.
[01:29] <jbicha> hmm, I've been capitalizing Launcher but not dash, we'll probably straighten that out in O
[01:29] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[01:29] <Rocket2DMn> im out of the loop on the unity stuff, i need to get caught up
[01:29] <Rocket2DMn> ill be the one asking the questions!
[01:30] <Captainkrtek> Unity is pretty good for dual displays, more viewing space
[01:30] <shaunm> Captainkrtek: it's not a mallard-specific thing. & means something in xml, and you have to escape it as & for a literal ampersand character
[01:31] <shaunm> same for docbook or xhtml or dita or whatever else
[01:31] <Captainkrtek> shaunm, yeah, google helped answer that ;-) Thanks
[01:31] <shaunm> cool
[01:31] <shaunm> google knows all
[01:31] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, what do you need done after files-share?
[01:31] <Captainkrtek> shaunm, skynet hehe
[01:32] <Rocket2DMn> ok fellas im gonna sign off so i can make backups
[01:32] <Rocket2DMn> ill be back tomorrow
[01:32] <Captainkrtek> talk to you later!
[01:36] <jbicha> ah, so we do talk about ccsm (unity-launcher-change-size)
[01:42] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, have a small patch for you to apply
[01:43] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, here ya go :-) http://paste.ubuntu.com/601075/
[01:54] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: ok
[02:13] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, any specific files you need looked at?
[02:36] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: sorry, um you could just check_status and pick something
[03:21] <Captainkrtek> k
[03:33] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, was that patch good?
[03:38] <jbicha> yup, it's good, I'll merge it by tomorrow
[03:38] <jbicha> thank you
[03:38] <Captainkrtek> k :) Ill get another patch done tonight
[03:39] <Captainkrtek> had one question for you
[03:39] <Captainkrtek> should I be submitting patches using: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/natty/+register-merge
[03:49] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: no, that's a proposal to merge our branch with another branch
[03:49] <Captainkrtek> yeah looked different
[03:49] <Captainkrtek> K time to get to work :)
[03:50] <jbicha> but you can bzr push to your own branch and click the Propose Merging button there
[03:53] <Krtek|Busy> k
[03:53] <Krtek|Busy> also what about pages marked as REVIEW, can i proof them and mark as final?
[03:53] <Krtek|Busy> hey Rocket2DMn :)
[03:54] <Rocket2DMn> hello
[03:54] <Rocket2DMn> just did a fresh install of natty, using unity now
[03:54] <Krtek|Busy> how do you like it?
[03:54] <Rocket2DMn> its a little weird, but its not bad
[03:54] <Krtek|Busy> yeah
[03:54] <Krtek|Busy> im so-so about it haha
[03:54] <Rocket2DMn> trying to get it configured with my own little quirky preferences
[03:55] <Rocket2DMn> guess ill take banshee for a spin here
[03:56] <Krtek|Busy> Rocket2DMn, new here, can I review the files marked for REVIEW or is that just for committers?
[03:58] <Rocket2DMn> Krtek|Busy, of course you can, you can post your feedback to the mailing list
[03:58] <Krtek|Busy> okay thanks :)
[04:01] <Krtek|Busy> then mark it from Review to Final? or Candidate?
[04:03] <Rocket2DMn> Krtek|Busy, if you want to make changes, you can either post the bzr patch to the mailing list, or alternatively you can make your own branch and do a merge request
[04:04] <Krtek|Busy> yeah I understand, just wondering if I do: <revision version="11.04" date="2011-04-15" status="review"/> to <revision version="11.04" date="2011-04-29" status="final"/>
[04:06] <Rocket2DMn> hmm, i havent really looked at the gnome user docs actually since i just upgraded
[04:06] <Rocket2DMn> hey jbicha , you here?
[04:07] <Krtek|Busy> k
[04:07] <Krtek|Busy> just wondering what status I set a reviewed file to if it looks good, candidate or final
[04:13] <jbicha> yes, I'm mostly here
[04:14] <jbicha> if the page was already written and you only made minor changes, setting it to final is fine for now
[04:14] <Krtek|Busy> okay
[04:14] <Krtek|Busy> thanks :)
[04:15] <jbicha> candidate is for new pages and review is if it should have a 2nd person look it over
[04:15] <Krtek|Busy> should I set that page I wrote on Internet safety to Candidate then?
[04:17] <Rocket2DMn> after using unity for about an hour now, i think my biggest complaint is that some stuff is just tedious to get to, like configuration utilities and apps that i dont have stored in the bar
[04:17] <Krtek|Busy> yeah
[04:17] <Krtek|Busy> I used to have icons pinned to the top
[04:17] <Krtek|Busy> you can't now as far as I know
[04:18] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i had a row of stuff, and getting to the Adminstration menu was quick
[04:18] <Krtek|Busy> same :/
[04:18] <Rocket2DMn> also, it's a pain to try and open multiple terminals
[04:18] <Krtek|Busy> YES
[04:19] <Krtek|Busy> hahah
[04:19] <Krtek|Busy> i have 3 terminals open
[04:19] <Krtek|Busy> I try to open one and it opens em all
[04:19] <Rocket2DMn> i didnt realize how much i used them until they are difficult to open
[04:22] <Rocket2DMn> id like my workspaces to be visible in the panel too
[04:22] <Krtek|Busy> yeah
[04:24] <Rocket2DMn> it's clear that this panel is not as useful for those who multitask
[04:27] <Rocket2DMn> gonna logout to refresh some settings and play with ym network card, bbl
[04:32] <Krtek|Busy> submitting another diff.
[04:38] <jbicha> Rocket2DMn: the Gnome 3 System Settings is really nice though, it's not in 11.04 though
[04:39] <jbicha> there are tricks to multitasking but they aren't obvious
[04:39] <jbicha> Meta+W is useful but it really needs to have the window titles visible too
[04:42] <Rocket2DMn> ah the meta key brings up the app search
[04:42] <Rocket2DMn> id rather only my favorite apps show in the side panel and other apps be in a bottom panel
[04:42] <Rocket2DMn> convenience is lost if i have to scroll the side panel
[04:43] <Rocket2DMn> cant seem to edit the icons of my cusom launchers in the panel either
[04:45] <jbicha> no, editing the launchers is more complicated
[04:45] <jbicha> I think you can make your own .desktop files but not completely sure how that works
[04:47] <Rocket2DMn> well, i guess i should be happy that my install went smoothly anyway, my /home didnt get messed up
[04:50] <Rocket2DMn> ooooooooooooooo
[04:50] <Rocket2DMn> middle click opens another instance
[04:50] <Rocket2DMn> e.g. of terminal
[04:51] <Captainkrtek> aww
[04:51] <Captainkrtek> wish I had a middle click :|
[04:52] <Rocket2DMn> you on a laptop?
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> nope
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> Microsoft Arc Mouse
[04:52] <Rocket2DMn> you dont have a scroll wheel?
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> I do
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> but it is flat
[04:52] <Rocket2DMn> that is middle click
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> non clickable
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> it's weird haha
[04:53] <jbicha> click left & right buttons at same time to simulate middle click
[04:53] <jbicha> read the help, lol :-)
[04:53] <Captainkrtek> doesnt work, or my coordination is off ;-)
[04:53] <jbicha> oh ok
[04:53] <Captainkrtek> lol
[04:53] <Rocket2DMn> jbicha, nobody here reads documentation, that's blasphemy
[04:53] <Captainkrtek> what documentation?
[04:53] <Captainkrtek> hehe
[04:54] <Rocket2DMn> well i think the 11.04 docs should go online soon
[04:54] <Captainkrtek> yay
[04:54] <Captainkrtek> I can power through some more outdated ones
[04:54] <Captainkrtek> we have like 30ish left
[04:54] <Rocket2DMn> matthew pushed updates to the branch earlier and i believe it gets polled daily for updates that go live to the site
[04:55] <Captainkrtek> very cool!
[04:55] <Captainkrtek> Final: 		 175
[04:55] <Captainkrtek> Outdated: 	 25
[04:56] <Captainkrtek> and my last commit removes another 5 of those I think
[04:56] <Captainkrtek> so < 20
[04:59] <Rocket2DMn> sweet
[04:59] <Rocket2DMn> hmm im missing my xchat tray icon
[04:59] <Captainkrtek> knocking out a few more now
[04:59] <Captainkrtek> same :/
[05:00] <Rocket2DMn> they really need to add the tray back in
[05:00] <Captainkrtek> yea
[05:01] <Captainkrtek> also the sidebar for unity is pissing me off, I hate having to hover over it to get it to pop up
[05:10] <jbicha> you can set it to never hide
[05:10] <Captainkrtek> oh
[05:10] <jbicha> that's how my wife has hers
[05:10] <jbicha> do you ever use gconf-editor?
[05:10] <Captainkrtek> only saw two settings for unity in System Settings
[05:10] <Captainkrtek> yes
[05:11] <Captainkrtek> ill find it in there he
[05:11] <Captainkrtek> then*
[05:11] <jbicha> /apps/compiz-1/plugins/unityshell/screen0/options/launcher_hide_mode
[05:16] <Captainkrtek> there
[05:17] <Captainkrtek> messing with unity hid my xchat window :|
[05:19] <Captainkrtek> that's very odd... just quit f spot photo manager, my whole desktop reinitiated
[05:22] <jbicha> you can also try Unity 2D, it's probably a bit more stable
[08:47] <jbicha> mdke: thank you, I should have checked the code myself to see what was going on but at least it's fixed
[08:48] <mdke> jbicha: :)
[08:50] <mdke> jbicha: think I've sorted the other one too
[09:05] <mdke> jbicha: you in NY? You keep slightly unorthodox hours :D
[09:07] <jbicha> Maryland at the moment
[09:08] <jbicha> going to an online school but I probably should fix my sleep schedule
[09:10] <mdke> ah, that explains it
[13:59] <Lhademmor> ...is the Ubuntu DocTeam dead? According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda it looks that way...
[14:01] <Pendulum> Lhademmor: it's going, just doesn't have meetings regularly
[14:02] <mdke> Lhademmor: funnily enough it's recently been very active
[14:02] <Lhademmor> Ah, okay then. I may be interested in getting back into the documentation writing business (been out for a while), so I guess I'll stick around then :)
[14:05] <mdke> Lhademmor: we're very keen for new contributors and it is quite an exciting time to get involved with a lot of work going on to document Unity changes
[14:05] <mdke> go ahead and sign up to our mailing list to get the hang of what is going on
[14:06] <Lhademmor> Oh.. I'm on Kubuntu right now so I don't know how able I will be at Unity docs.. :/
[14:06] <Lhademmor> But I'll sign up now :)
[14:07] <mdke> Kubuntu docs need help too
[14:08] <Lhademmor> You mean the wiki? Or upstream app documentation?
[14:09] <mdke> I was thinking of onboard help actually
[14:09] <mdke> but probably everything needs help :)
[14:18] <Lhademmor> I've just marked bug 340246 as invalid, seeing as Netbook Remix has been merged into Desktop. I hope I haven't done anything wrong :)
[14:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 340246 in ubuntu-docs "Netbook Remix needs a seperate ubuntu-doc branch" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340246
[14:20] <mdke> good plan
[15:07] <Rocket2DMn> good morning
[16:08] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, are you here?
[16:32] <Rocket2DMn> ok guys, so i'm doing my first change to the gnome user docs, i've reviewed steve's display-2monitors.page thta he emailed a few days ago
[16:33] <Rocket2DMn> i made some changes, moved it from a .stub to a .page, ran ./check_validation on the file, added the file to Makefile.am, ran ./check_makefil
[16:33] <Rocket2DMn> I also updated the revision date and revision status to final
[16:34] <Rocket2DMn> is there anything else that i need to do before i commit?
[16:34] <Rocket2DMn> ping shaunm ^
[18:19] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: that sounds all perfect
[18:29] <Rocket2DMn> hey mdke , alright i'll commit it, will you have a look at the email that is generated please?
[18:33] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: sure
[18:33] <mdke> I look at em all :)
[18:33] <Rocket2DMn> lol my email to the list got put on moderation queue for being too large
[18:33] <mdke> hmm?
[18:34] <Rocket2DMn> i responded to Steve's request for review wher ehe included his diff inline
[18:34] <Rocket2DMn> the bzr diff must have made the email >40kb with my response
[18:35] <mdke> is there an attachment?
[18:35] <Rocket2DMn> no, for whatever reason it didnt come through as an attachment, i twas just text at the bottom of the email
[18:36] <Rocket2DMn> another email of his thta i looked at did have an attachment, so i'm not sure what he did differently
[18:36] <mdke> alright, I've stuck it through, it was only just over the limit
[18:37] <Rocket2DMn> thanks, first time ive had that issue, didnt know there was even a limit
[18:39] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I guess
Note: should be <note>

[18:40] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: also, in the <steps> section, it looks like you could separate out a few more items; like the first item is really two
[18:41] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i was wondering about the note thing, i assumed mallard had such an element but i just wasnt sure.  that's just how he wrote it, i just formatted it
[18:41] <Rocket2DMn> i'll go ahead and make some changes
[18:42] <Rocket2DMn> give me a few though, still getting software loaded on my fresh natty install :)
[18:42] <mdke> I would use "click" instead of "hit"
[18:42] <mdke> or "choose"
[18:42] <mdke> "by default" instead of "at default"
[18:43] <mdke> steve isn't around I guess
[18:44] <Rocket2DMn> +1 to your comments
[18:46] <j1mc> mdke: Rocket2DMn ... is there anything that you all are working on that could benefit from additional attention now?
[18:46] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, when i've been doing work recently, i've been putting new sentences on different lines so statements dont get bundled in translation
[18:46] <Rocket2DMn> hey j1mc , one of the tasks i put on the oneiric page was to do a complete review of bugs
[18:46] <Rocket2DMn> if we dont have other stuff to work on, we can start on some of those
[18:46] <mdke> j1mc: we still have 25 docs marked as outdated that needs reviewing for unity compatibility I guess; also a few files to review and various stubs
[18:47] <Rocket2DMn> unity docs take preference :)
[18:47] <j1mc> ok - i'll take a look at the stubs list
[18:48] <Rocket2DMn> What has been our preferred method for getting to the System Settings in the docs?
[18:49] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: session menu (see mouse-disabletouchpad.page for an example)
[18:49] <mdke> j1mc: the outdated ones are the highest priority if you have the inclination, because if they are wrong then we are changing strings for translators rather than just adding them
[18:50] <Rocket2DMn> ok mdke , so the icon in the top menu then
[18:50] <j1mc> for 11.10 we'll want to look at issues like this: http://i.imgur.com/aQ70u.png
[18:50] <mdke> "Click the icon at the very right of the <gui>top panel</gui> and select <gui>System Settings</gui>."
[18:51] <mdke> j1mc: yeah
[18:51] <j1mc> are we calling it top panel?  :)  we had the discussion on this list about calling it the menu bar.
[18:51] <j1mc> s/this/the
[18:51] <mdke> j1mc: yes, but it would require us to change like 150 files I think
[18:51] <mdke> it's an issue for the next release
[18:52] <j1mc> ok
[18:52] <mdke> maybe that's an exaggeration, 59 :)
[18:53] <mdke> j1mc: also, I'd really like to look into clarifying the terminology with the developers, because it seems a bit unclear. Perhaps you could start this at UDS?
[18:53] <Rocket2DMn> does yelp cache .page files? It doesnt seem to always open the updated ones when i tell it to
[18:53] <mdke> no idea
[18:53] <j1mc> are translators translating our docs now? it wouldn't be that difficult to write a script to change instances of 'top panel' and 'top bar' to 'menu bar'
[18:54] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: i've heard that mentioned before, but i've never experienced that problem.
[18:54] <jbicha> Rocket2DMn: you have to wait a few seconds for yelp to finish closing
[18:55] <jbicha> I run yelp . from the command line and wait for me to get the prompt back
[18:55] <j1mc> yelp does close 5 seconds after you shut it down... ctrl-c will close it immediately
[18:55] <Rocket2DMn> jbicha, that could be it, i usually like to compare the old and new ones side by side in yelp windows though, but i guess i cant do that anymore
[18:55] <jbicha> yeah, that won't work :-(
[18:55] <Rocket2DMn> i right click in nautilus and open with...
[18:55] <mdke> j1mc: no, not right now - hopefully in the next few days
[18:56] <jbicha> as j1mc said, you could just sed it to change the terms
[18:56] <mdke> j1mc: but I think that "top panel" is easily understandable and would personally wait until we have had the discussion about terminology with the design people
[18:57] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, any other suggestions for that display-2monitors page?
[18:57] <j1mc> if we can get it corrected now, though, why not do it before the translators start their work?
[18:57] <j1mc> it will make things more consistent for users.
[18:58] <mdke> j1mc: are we sure it is the right terminology?
[18:58] <mdke> I had understood that it was an open question
[18:59] <Rocket2DMn> i havent had a chance to look at this page, but a fellow forum staff member posted this in a sticky on the forums, could be useufl - http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4795149014/the-power-users-guide-to-unity
[18:59] <j1mc> i didn't read the post from ted gould. it seems inconsistent even amongst canonical folks. none of them call it 'top bar' or 'top panel' though
[18:59] <mdke> I think some of the UI tools refer to panel, don't they?
[18:59] <j1mc> yes
[18:59] <mdke> so any inconsistency isn't really on our side :)
[19:00] <j1mc> oh... no, sorry...
[19:00] <j1mc> i misread what you said.
[19:00] <j1mc> i'm not sure if any ui tools refer to the panel
[19:00] <mdke> The "monitors" one does
[19:00] <j1mc> ah, ok
[19:00] <mdke> "Show monitors in panel"
[19:01]  * mdke looks around for others
[19:03] <mdke> the "clock" one refers to the "menu bar"
[19:03] <jbicha> mdke: I think that's the only one; the power applet says "notification area"
[19:03]  * mdke nods
[19:04] <jbicha> I updated the askubuntu answer to say menu bar also
[19:04] <mdke> well, I don't mind if we change it, if that's the right terminology
[19:06] <j1mc> i'll read over what jbicha linked to from ted gould, but i think there's a decent rationale for 'menu bar' with unity.
[19:06] <j1mc> and we should be at least internally consistent in the docs
[19:06] <mdke> if it was me I would change the whole instruction to "In the <link>Session menu</link>, select <gui>System Settings</gui>".
[19:07] <mdke> with the link pointing at an explanation of what the session menu is
[19:07] <jbicha> we can do that to
[19:07] <mdke> or better a mouseover glossary note
[19:07] <mdke> does Mallard do such mouseover glossary notes?
[19:07] <j1mc> i don't think so - would be a reasonable feature request, though.
[19:08] <jbicha> I like the name "System menu" but obviously, design doesn't use that name so that's probably not a good name now
[19:08] <mdke> the problem is that by adding the system settings, they have totally distorted the session menu
[19:08] <mdke> and it's wholly undiscoverable anyway
[19:09] <mdke> I can't understand why they didn't add it to the launchers underneath Applications
[19:09] <j1mc> yeah, it is a big gripe from users
[19:09] <mdke> brb
[19:09] <jbicha> it's similar to what Gnome 3 does
[19:09] <jbicha> the entire Dash needs a redesign
[19:11] <mdke> a bit of stubbornness from them
[19:12] <mdke> anyway, I think it is up for discussion at UDS, *nudges j1mc*
[19:13] <j1mc> the location of the 'system settings' menu?
[19:13] <jbicha> here's another terminology thing, the "Settings" buttons at the bottom of the indicators are inconsistent
[19:13] <mdke> yeah
[19:13] <j1mc> i will be working on the docs-session proposal this weekend. i'll let the docs team know when it's ready... we can edit it if i've missed something
[19:14] <mdke> ok, I'm off for dinner + doctor who
[19:15] <j1mc> thanks for your help, mdke
[19:16] <j1mc> you too, Rocket2DMn and jbicha   : )
[19:16] <j1mc> and shaunm!
[21:02] <marcoceppi_> Hi
[21:03] <Rocket2DMn> hi
[21:03] <Captainkrtek> hey guys
[21:04] <jbicha> marcoceppi_: hi, welcome!
[21:05] <Captainkrtek> hey jbicha :)
[21:05] <Rocket2DMn> anyone  know if you can rearrange launchers that you have pinned in the panel?
[21:06] <Rocket2DMn> in unity that is
[21:06] <marcoceppi_> For some reason my normal nick marcoceppi has been banned :\ anyways, hello!
[21:06] <jbicha> Rocket2DMn: click the launcher icon and hold for a few seconds than drag it where you want it
[21:06] <Rocket2DMn> ahh thanks jbicha
[21:06] <jbicha> marcoceppi: once you bzr branch, you'll want to cd libs
[21:07] <jbicha> then make gnome-help
[21:07] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: you can also move the launchers by clicking and moving them outside of the launcher area... and then dragging them to where you want them.
[21:08] <Rocket2DMn> what do you mean outside of the launcer area, you mean to the dekstop?
[21:08] <j1mc> yeah... kinda.  just move it out a little to the left
[21:08] <j1mc> i mean, to the right.  :)
[21:08] <Rocket2DMn> oh i see, just sorta swing it around rather than click-and-hold
[21:09] <j1mc> yeah
[21:09] <Rocket2DMn> gracias
[21:09] <j1mc> on unity-2d, only the click-and-hold works
[21:09] <Rocket2DMn> thats sorta random
[21:09] <jbicha> you don't need to move outside the launcher anymore, that was 10.10 and early natty
[21:09] <Rocket2DMn> j1mc, do you think the search docs we ship with natty fix bug 129505
[21:09] <jbicha> but both work
[21:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 129505 in ubuntu-docs "Docs required on desktop search tools" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129505
[21:09] <Rocket2DMn> ie https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/ubuntu-help/files-search.html
[21:10] <j1mc> well, it's another option... another way of doing it
[21:10] <mdke> hey guys
[21:10] <Rocket2DMn> o/
[21:10] <Rocket2DMn> how was dinner and dr who?
[21:10] <mdke> both good thanks
[21:10] <jbicha> mdke: marcoceppi  might be able to help us out with our CSS for the website
[21:11] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: i don't think that fixes it.
[21:11] <mdke> cool, hi marcoceppi
[21:11] <j1mc> i think they want something like tracker or the new search infrastructure that is just getting started
[21:11] <Rocket2DMn> theres _another_ search infrastructure coming?
[21:11] <marcoceppi> Hello! I do a lot of web development stuff, most recently was the fixes to apt.ubuntu.com to allow access not only to Firefox, but Chrome and other Ubuntu browsers (as well as new stylization)
[21:12] <Rocket2DMn> that bug is rather old
[21:12] <j1mc> i can't think of the name... it's what shows you the recent files.
[21:12] <j1mc> zeitgeist
[21:12] <mdke> marcoceppi: we're looking to update help.ubuntu.com for the new website branding in the coming release. It involves updating our static help files and the wiki theme - there is code already available for both I believe which can be ported reasonably easily
[21:12] <jbicha> bless you
[21:13] <j1mc> :)
[21:13] <Rocket2DMn> yeah j1mc i just downloaded an app this morning to configure it zeitgeist a little
[21:13] <marcoceppi> mdke: I'm branching the stuff from LP now
[21:13] <Rocket2DMn> lol jbicha
[21:14] <mdke> marcoceppi: cool. I'm happy to help you find stuff and review. Did you find the existing wiki theme?
[21:15] <mdke> (it's here - lp:~mdke/ubuntu-docs/helpwiki-newtheme)
[21:15] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, thanks for your edits on the display-2monitors doc :)
[21:16] <Rocket2DMn> np man, dual monitors is a lot easier these days than it used to be
[21:16] <Captainkrtek> yeah definetly
[21:16] <Rocket2DMn> 3 or 4 years ago i couldve written a small novel on how to setup dual head
[21:16] <Captainkrtek> can you look at a file for me?
[21:16] <marcoceppi> mdke: Cool, I just branched lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/natty - not sure if that's also another part to look at
[21:16] <Captainkrtek> it's the only candidate now I think
[21:17] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: there was one other thing on the patch earlier. We have been introducing line breaks rather more forcifully in some of these files; say every 80 or 100 characters
[21:17] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, i usually try to put each sentence or statement on a new line
[21:17] <Rocket2DMn> wouldnt that make translations better - to translate a whole sentence, no more no less?
[21:17] <Captainkrtek> mdke, you're Matthew right?
[21:18] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: line breaks don't cause any problems for translations
[21:18] <mdke> Captainkrtek: yes
[21:18] <Captainkrtek> mdke, just wanted to say thanks as well :-)
[21:19] <j1mc> i'll be back later, all.
[21:19] <mdke> marcoceppi: ok so there are two different parts to help.ubuntu.com, there is the static html part (which is generated from our bzr branches for ubuntu-docs) and the wiki part
[21:19] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, i thought each "line" made a new translation string
[21:19] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: nope
[21:19] <mdke> marcoceppi: so the code for generating the static html is all in the gnome-user-docs/natty branch in libs/ubuntu.xsl
[21:19] <Rocket2DMn> so how does it know where a string begins and ends?
[21:20] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: it uses the tags
[21:20] <marcoceppi> Ah, okay
[21:20] <Rocket2DMn> hmm ok
[21:20] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, see bug 510650 :)
[21:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 510650 in ubuntu-docs "Standardize source formatting of ubuntu-docs source xml" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/510650
[21:21] <mdke> marcoceppi: have you worked with xsl before?
[21:21] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, do you think you could look at net-security-tips.page ? need someone to review it
[21:22] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yeah, it's a good idea - perhaps part of rewriting the style guide which j1mc mentioned working on...
[21:22] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, the only way i can think of to really enforce formatting is to use an autoformatter
[21:23] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: pretty difficult to enforce it but we can encourage it. Putting a vertical line in gedit at 80 characters is working to remind me
[21:23] <marcoceppi> mdke: Yes, but limited work. I understand the format
[21:24] <Rocket2DMn> yeah mdke , i have that line as well
[21:24] <mdke> marcoceppi: ok, the file should be reasonably self-explanatory then. Most of the html and css is imported from the default yelp stylesheets, and we just customise the high level stuff
[21:24] <Rocket2DMn> tbh 80 characters is a little short these days, but if people are working out of terminals, it is still the de facto standard i suppose
[21:24] <mdke> 80 or 100 I guess
[21:25] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: ref - http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2011-April/msg00041.html
[21:25] <marcoceppi> mdke: Sounds pretty straight forward. At least you guy use mostly standard class names and such :)
[21:25] <Rocket2DMn> i usually gravitate toward about 120, but that's just me
[21:26] <Rocket2DMn> lol mdke , yeah, i can do that
[21:26] <Rocket2DMn> single sentences dont usually go longer than that anyway
[21:26]  * mdke nods
[21:27] <mdke> marcoceppi: I guess you're familiar with the various templates around for the new branding?
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, the commit i made after the initial one is a little cleaner after i broke up some of the steps and broke down some sentences
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> i can go add some more line breaks now if youd like
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, sorry for being slow here, i can review that pag ein a bit
[21:28] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: it's no big deal, I was just mentioning it. Plenty of other files don't do this
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> ok mdke , duly noted for the future
[21:28] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, thank you very much, check the mailing list for the diff :)
[21:29] <Captainkrtek> no rush
[21:29] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, yup
[21:29] <Captainkrtek> also jbicha submitted the files-share page
[21:29] <Captainkrtek> and some others
[21:29] <Captainkrtek> we should be down to <20 outdated docs
[21:35] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, do you still have the diff available in your branch checkout
[21:35] <Rocket2DMn> the pastebin is not formatted at all
[21:35] <Rocket2DMn> or is that just how you wrote it?
[21:37] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, let me see
[21:37] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, a couple pieces of feedback so far
[21:37] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, I don't :/ the pastebin must've done that
[21:37] <Captainkrtek> let me see if I have another copy
[21:38] <Rocket2DMn> first, please use indentation/formatting of the XML (child elements should be indented further than their parent elements)
[21:38] <Rocket2DMn> second, please try not to use contractions, e.g. say "you are" instead of "you're"
[21:39] <mdke> Captainkrtek: you can try pushing your branch to Launchpad instead of the pastebin. So "bzr push lp:~username/gnome-user-docs/net-security-tips" (after committing). Alternatively attach our patch to a bug report
[21:41] <Captainkrtek> okay
[21:41] <Captainkrtek> thanks :)
[21:41] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2011-April/015671.html
[21:41] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, some of the docs i've been seeing come across as rather informal, lots of usage of "you" - are we OK with this or do we prefer to limit that?
[21:41] <mdke> see Phil's comment above
[21:42] <Rocket2DMn> ah
[21:42] <jbicha> they just keep changing the rules on us! :-)
[21:43] <Rocket2DMn> yeah no kidding
[21:43] <mdke> hooray for Clint Byrum
[21:43] <Rocket2DMn> I usually prefer to keep it professional, it looks cleaner and tends to keep at bay digressions and other material that may not be immediately relevant or is just superflous
[21:44] <mdke> there is quite a difficult balance
[21:44] <Rocket2DMn> for instance, why say, "After you click X, then you can click Y," when you can say, "Click X, then click Y."
[21:45] <mdke> yes, I agree with that - less is more there
[21:45] <mdke> for me some regular contractions are fine to keep things informal, but when you start using informality that could be misunderstood by users or translators, we are in trouble
[21:46] <jbicha> I like to be real concise but I'm learning that I can be misunderstood when I don't use enough words
[21:46] <mdke> can everyone test gnome-user-docs 3.0.0+git20110406ubuntu9 in natty-proposed
[21:46] <Rocket2DMn> jbicha, i think the problem there is that our vocabulary is not consistent or even understood yet
[21:47] <Rocket2DMn> we hvae to say "click the icon in the upper right to open the session menu, then choose X" rather than "go to the session menu and choose X"
[21:48] <mdke> that might be part of the problem
[21:48] <mdke> but informality vs formality is a tricky issue in its own right
[21:48] <mdke> it's really a question of common sense / judgment once we have laid down some basic guidelines
[21:48] <jbicha> I believe the session menu is the only confusing one that requires the extra words
[21:48] <jbicha> but it's mentioned so many times
[21:49] <Rocket2DMn> heh yeah we should just import a string every time we want to open that menu
[21:49] <jbicha> logging out for a bit
[21:49] <Rocket2DMn> &open-session-menu-already!!;
[21:56] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~steven.richards/+junk/gnome-help/revision/1551
[21:58] <Rocket2DMn> sexy
[21:58] <Captainkrtek> :-D
[21:59] <Rocket2DMn> if you really wanted to format it cleanly, everything inside the <page> element would be indented from that, but i know other docs arent doing that so its ok
[21:59] <Rocket2DMn> (like you did with <info>)
[21:59] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, i would get rid of the ... at the end of the description.  a single period is fine
[21:59] <Captainkrtek> okay
[22:00] <Captainkrtek> ill go make more fixes and re-push
[22:00] <Rocket2DMn> let me finish reading before you make extra effort
[22:00] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:01] <Rocket2DMn> "are always vulnerabilities, most of those l"
[22:01] <Rocket2DMn> i would say "are always vulnerabilities, many of which liel"
[22:01] <Rocket2DMn> err sp error, you get the idea
[22:01] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[22:01] <Captainkrtek> whoops
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> in your last list, i would mention to not open attachments from people you dont know
[22:02] <Captainkrtek> sure
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> and dont respond to them
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> or click link
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> s
[22:03] <Captainkrtek> yeah good idea
[22:03] <Rocket2DMn> that seems not necessary -> that seems unnecessary
[22:05] <Captainkrtek> most of those lie --> most of those lay ?
[22:05] <Rocket2DMn> consequences you could have by submitting such infoformation -> consequences if that information is compromised by identity thieves or other criminals
[22:05] <Rocket2DMn> note that you misspelled information as well
[22:05] <Captainkrtek> whoops
[22:05] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[22:06] <Captainkrtek> thought I fixed that last night haha
[22:06] <Rocket2DMn> well-known; providing anyone/anything -> make that two sentences
[22:06] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:07] <Rocket2DMn> use semicolons very rarely, it's difficult enough to use them correctly in english, i can only image how to translate their usage
[22:07] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[22:07] <Rocket2DMn> "running necessary remote-access services that you need" - that is repetitive, just say "running remote access services that you need"
[22:08] <Rocket2DMn> "leaves your computer open to remote access" -> "leaves your computer open to intrusion"
[22:08] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:09] <Captainkrtek> "whether" --> "whether you use"
[22:09] <Rocket2DMn> "You can also ensure secure remote-access by utilizing a firewall" - you can't ensure security.  Maybe say "Consider using a firewall""
[22:10] <Captainkrtek> yeah true
[22:10] <Rocket2DMn> most users may not even know what a firewall is or have any idea that there is such a thing as a hardware firewall
[22:10] <Captainkrtek> how about this
[22:11] <Captainkrtek> "Consider using a firewall to help protect your computer from intrusion,
[22:11] <Captainkrtek> whether you use hardware or software is your choice"
[22:11] <Captainkrtek> true
[22:11] <Rocket2DMn> if there are docs on firewalls, you can link to those
[22:11] <Captainkrtek> ahh there is one I think
[22:11] <Rocket2DMn> there are in the ubuntu-docs i bleieve, and definitely are on the community wiki
[22:12] <Captainkrtek> net-firewall-on-off.page
[22:12] <Captainkrtek> adding
[22:12] <Captainkrtek> Consider using a <link xref="net-firewall-on-off.page">firewall</link> to help
[22:12] <Captainkrtek> protect your computer from intrusion.
[22:12] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i like that
[22:12] <Captainkrtek> sound good? :-)
[22:12] <Captainkrtek> cool :D
[22:13] <Captainkrtek> okay let me just go make some changes and re-read it myself
[22:13] <Captainkrtek> also, this sound good? "there are always vulnerabilities, most of those lay in the hands of the end user."
[22:15] <Rocket2DMn> not really a fan of the second part
[22:15] <Captainkrtek> yeah...
[22:15] <Captainkrtek> ill fix it
[22:15] <Rocket2DMn> first i dont think its necessarily accurate, also "lay in the hands of" sounds weird
[22:15] <Captainkrtek> well the definition of lie does not include placing something
[22:15] <Rocket2DMn> a native english speaker will understand, but it's a cultural phrase
[22:16] <Captainkrtek> hrmm
[22:16] <Captainkrtek> actually lie does include that
[22:16] <Rocket2DMn> not sure what the word im looking for is, but i think you get my point
[22:16] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[22:16] <Captainkrtek> ill re-word it
[22:17] <Captainkrtek> "there are always vulnerabilities, mostly ones that the user is in control of."
[22:18] <Captainkrtek> control of still sounds odd
[22:18] <Captainkrtek> "responsible for" ?
[22:20] <Rocket2DMn> you know, i dont think that second part of the sentence even applies to that list anyway
[22:20] <Rocket2DMn> it applies to the second list about emails and whatnot
[22:20] <Captainkrtek> true....
[22:20] <Captainkrtek> just trying to imply that the user in in control of their own security
[22:21] <Rocket2DMn> "Despite the security measures taken to ensure your installation of Linux is secure, there are always vulnerabilities. As an average..."
[22:21] <Captainkrtek> yeah that does sound good
[22:22] <Captainkrtek> Ill do that then
[22:22] <Captainkrtek> want me to change it to final?
[22:23] <Rocket2DMn> make those changes and push to your branch again
[22:23] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:24] <Captainkrtek> just proofing it one more time
[22:28] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~steven.richards/+junk/gnome-help/revision/1552
[22:32] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, give me 10 minutes
[22:33] <Captainkrtek> no rush :)
[22:33] <Rocket2DMn> gotta finish spamming everyone's inbox with bugmail
[22:33] <Captainkrtek> hehe
[22:33] <Captainkrtek> I had to make a filter in gmail for the bug lists I follow
[22:37] <Rocket2DMn> ok, sorry about that
[22:38] <Captainkrtek> no problem :)
[22:39] <Rocket2DMn> let me grab your branch to see the diff, its confusing looking at a single commit on LP
[22:39] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> for its' robust
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> lose the apostrophe
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> in fact just say "the robust security" since after you say it is
[22:41] <Captainkrtek> oh okay
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> "amount of people that use it," - end the sentence there and start a new one
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> well..
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> hmmm
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> i would say "number of people" not "amount".  if you want it in one sentence, use a dash instead of a comma
[22:43] <Rocket2DMn> i dont think open-source needs the dash though, it's just two words
[22:43] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:44] <Rocket2DMn> "Despite the security measures taken to ensure your installation of Linux is secure" is also repetitive, just say "Despite the measures taken..."
[22:44] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:44] <Rocket2DMn> hold on there are poliec outside my apt
[22:44] <Captainkrtek> uh oh
[22:45] <Captainkrtek> hahahaha
[22:45] <Police2DMn> :|
[22:46] <Rocket2DMn> should be alright, my neighbor downstairs has some type of mental handicap and has been carrying on, maybe somebody called the police.  not sure if they'll knock on my door, but i just wanted to put the gun away so as not to worry anyone
[22:47] <Rocket2DMn> lets continue
[22:47] <Captainkrtek> hehe no problem
[22:47] <Rocket2DMn> "still prone to" - not sure if prone in the right word
[22:47] <Rocket2DMn> maybe susceptible?
[22:47] <Captainkrtek> hmmm sure
[22:47] <Police2DMn> Rocket2DMn: the gun?
[22:48] <Rocket2DMn> i went shooting earlier so i left it out with the intent of cleaning it
[22:48] <Police2DMn> ah, ok. i will stand down now.
[22:48] <Rocket2DMn> i just put it back in the safe for now
[22:48] <Captainkrtek> also, what about userbase to user base?
[22:48] <Captainkrtek> or is it just one word
[22:49] <Rocket2DMn> two words is probably better
[22:49] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:50] <Captainkrtek> and the capitalization of internet?
[22:50] <Captainkrtek> should it be
[22:50] <Rocket2DMn> i dont thin it should unless its the start of a sentence or other pronoun
[22:50] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:51] <Rocket2DMn> are there any links for Phishing scams?
[22:51] <Captainkrtek> I dont think so
[22:51] <Captainkrtek> I could write one later maybe
[22:51] <Captainkrtek> what about linking to external sites?
[22:51] <Rocket2DMn> alright just wondering
[22:54] <Rocket2DMn> I would capitalize or otherwise markup "ssh" and "vnc"
[22:54] <Rocket2DMn> could mark them as apps
[22:54] <Captainkrtek> oh
[22:54] <Captainkrtek> yeah last night I made edits
[22:54] <Captainkrtek> forgot to save
[22:55] <Captainkrtek> oooh do we have an article on ssh?
[22:56] <Captainkrtek> hmm nope
[22:56] <Rocket2DMn> we certainly have one in the serverguide
[22:56] <Rocket2DMn> not sure if anything ships with the gnome docs though
[22:56] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[22:56] <Captainkrtek> I dont think so
[22:56] <Captainkrtek> just looked
[23:04] <Rocket2DMn> well otherwise i think it looks good Captainkrtek
[23:04] <Captainkrtek> :)
[23:04] <Captainkrtek> Ill commit for the final time
[23:04] <Captainkrtek> want me to change "candidate" to "final" ?
[23:06] <Rocket2DMn> sure
[23:07] <Captainkrtek> done, uploading
[23:07] <Captainkrtek> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~steven.richards/+junk/gnome-help/revision/1553
[23:09] <Rocket2DMn> the page doesnt validate
[23:09] <Captainkrtek> ?
[23:09] <Captainkrtek> hmm
[23:09] <Captainkrtek> let me see
[23:09] <Rocket2DMn> use check_validation.sh
[23:10] <Captainkrtek> probably a tag somewhere
[23:10] <Rocket2DMn> just feed it the filename
[23:10] <Captainkrtek> yeah tag error
[23:12] <Captainkrtek> weird...
[23:12] <Captainkrtek> all the tags look okay...
[23:13] <Captainkrtek> ahh
[23:13] <Captainkrtek> I see where
[23:13] <Rocket2DMn> man something is chewing up RAM on my computer
[23:13] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: saw your bug comment about the validation script. Unfortunately the output is terrible
[23:13] <Captainkrtek> how much ram do you have?
[23:13] <Rocket2DMn> 2GB
[23:13] <Captainkrtek> custom pc?
[23:14] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, sorry for all the bugmail with tagging
[23:14] <Captainkrtek> K it validates now
[23:14] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, which comment is that again?
[23:14] <mdke> Even
[23:14] <mdke> the validation checker can be confusing when it spits out a problem, I
[23:14] <mdke> spent a full five minutes trying to track down a silly problem today
[23:14] <mdke> when it told me the document was invalid, and it was a small document at
[23:14] <mdke> that.
[23:15] <Rocket2DMn> ah yeah
[23:15] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~steven.richards/+junk/gnome-help/revision/1554
[23:15] <Captainkrtek> forgot
</item> tags
[23:16] <Rocket2DMn> FF is chewing up 850MB!
[23:16] <Captainkrtek> get chromium :D
[23:16] <Rocket2DMn> some plugin must be leaking
[23:17] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, standby while i fix my memory issue, i keep swapping
[23:17] <Captainkrtek> no problem
[23:17] <jbicha> how many tabs do you have going?
[23:17] <jbicha> Chromium uses more memory than Firefox
[23:17] <Captainkrtek> I have 28 tabs open in Chrome
[23:17] <Captainkrtek> running fine haha
[23:18] <Rocket2DMn> i may need to reinstall my plugins since i installed a 64 bit system using an old 32 bit home directory
[23:19] <mdke> does anyone by any chance understand debian packaging?
[23:20] <Captainkrtek> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ ?
[23:20] <mdke> I mean does anyone in the channel already know debian packaging?
[23:21] <Captainkrtek> I don't sorry :/
[23:21] <jbicha> I know some
[23:21] <mdke> I'm playing with a package of ubuntu-docs for oneiric
[23:22] <mdke> I want to remove the browser homepage because it isn't used anymore (except for epiphany, where I expect a new solution to be implemented)
[23:22] <Rocket2DMn> i was just looking at that bug mdke , still showing 10.10 :)
[23:22] <mdke> there is a weird system of update-alternatives in place
[23:23] <mdke> and I need to remove that
[23:23] <Rocket2DMn> do we have oneiric branches now?
[23:23] <Captainkrtek> I didn't see any when I checked the other day
[23:23] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I have one locally but it will take a long time to upload it...
[23:23] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, i'm in no hurry, i'd rather get as much hammered out in the natty branches as we can first
[23:23] <Rocket2DMn> we still have planning to do anyway
[23:23] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, Im going to get back to work on the outdated docs
[23:23] <mdke> jbicha: so I'm trying an "ubuntu-docs.preinst" as follows: http://paste.ubuntu.com/601499/
[23:24] <jbicha> sometimes they get upset if we don't put the stuff in O first if we're doing a SRU
[23:24] <mdke> jbicha: but I'm way out of my depth so figures I would ask
[23:24] <mdke> exactly, that is the reason I'm looking at it
[23:24] <jbicha> I'm probably out of my depth too but I'll look
[23:24] <mdke> thx
[23:24] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, ok, i just grabbed your branch.  i'll have one last look and commit it
[23:25] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, thanks!
[23:25] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, in the future, when new pages are added you need to add them to the makefile (see check_makefile.sh).  i'll take care of tihs one though
[23:25] <Captainkrtek> oh okay
[23:25] <Captainkrtek> never learned that
[23:25] <Captainkrtek> Ill commit that now
[23:26] <Captainkrtek> the Makefile.am right?
[23:27] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, yeah, i already added it in my checkout
[23:27] <Captainkrtek> okay
[23:27] <Captainkrtek> will make sure to do next time :)
[23:27] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, are you going to keep working out of this branch?
[23:28] <Captainkrtek> yeah I think from now on
[23:28] <Rocket2DMn> ok, it may be OK for a bit, go ahead and add the makefile entry then so we're on the same page
[23:28] <Captainkrtek> already done
[23:28] <Captainkrtek> ./check_makefile.sh
[23:28] <Captainkrtek> 138a139
[23:28] <Captainkrtek> > net-security-tips.page
[23:29] <Rocket2DMn> commit/push please :)
[23:29] <Captainkrtek> k
[23:29] <Rocket2DMn> i'll take your version of it so we dont conflict in future merges
[23:29] <Captainkrtek> bzr add makefile.am right?
[23:30] <Rocket2DMn> no the makefile is already there, in the parent directory
[23:30] <Captainkrtek> the one in gnome-help or natty
[23:30] <Rocket2DMn> gnome-help
[23:30] <Captainkrtek> k
[23:30] <Captainkrtek> hmm...
[23:30] <Rocket2DMn> just add it below the net-security.page line
[23:31] <mdke> careful to add the slash
[23:31] <mdke> otherwise everything breaks :)
[23:31] <Rocket2DMn> boom
[23:31] <mdke> it's a very fragile system!
[23:31] <Captainkrtek> looks good I think...
[23:31] <Captainkrtek> commiting
[23:32] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, no such thing as a sturdy build system
[23:32] <Captainkrtek> pushin
[23:32] <mdke> guess not
[23:33] <Rocket2DMn> yeah its what happens when you want things t obe configurable
[23:33] <Rocket2DMn> however, you're not a true member of any dev team until you break the build :)
[23:33] <mdke> I'd better upload straight away then
[23:34] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, K, check my branch again
[23:34] <Captainkrtek> 1555 is the revision
[23:34] <Rocket2DMn> lol mdke , it means you have the buy the drinks though
[23:34] <mdke> hmm
[23:34] <mdke> ok I'll test it
[23:35] <jbicha> mdke: that commands removes the alternative so I guess it's right
[23:35] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, you see the files-share commit I did yesterday?
[23:35] <jbicha> yes and I meant to get to it by now
[23:35] <Captainkrtek> okay cool
[23:36] <Captainkrtek> there are some docs i want to work on just waiting for that commit to be made so I don't get all messed up in my branch
[23:36] <mdke> Captainkrtek: you can create a new branch for each piece of work you do. If you work in a shared repository, it should be all pretty fast
[23:37] <mdke> Captainkrtek: each time your branch gets merged, just discard it
[23:37] <Captainkrtek> okay
[23:37] <Captainkrtek> I have done that a few times already haha
[23:37] <jbicha> what's the syntax for making new branches like that?
[23:38] <jbicha> or can you point to the help page for that
[23:38] <Captainkrtek> bzr push lp:~steven.richards/+junk/BRANCHNAME
[23:38] <Captainkrtek> replace ~steven.richards with your nick
[23:38] <mdke> start a shared repo: mkdir gnome-user-docs; cd gnome-user-docs; bzr init-repo .
[23:38] <Captainkrtek> oh thought you meant a launchpad repo
[23:38] <mdke> get the main branch bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/natty natty
[23:39] <mdke> start a new branch each time: bzr branch natty sound-work
[23:39] <mdke> start a new branch each time: bzr branch natty hardware-work
[23:39] <mdke> etc
[23:39] <mdke> pushing them to Launchpad is a bit of a pain right now though
[23:39] <Captainkrtek> mdke, worked fine for me
[23:39] <mdke> it's slow
[23:39] <Captainkrtek> not that bad
[23:39] <mdke> because Launchpad uses the upstream Gnome branch as the default stacking branch
[23:39] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, it is committed
[23:39] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, thanks!
[23:40] <mdke> when we move over to the ubuntu-docs project and set the oneiric branch as the main branch, sending new branches will be very fast, because bzr doesn't send all the revision history
[23:40] <mdke> just the new stuff in a particular branch
[23:40] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, no problem, thanks for your work man
[23:41] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, same to you! I'm new here
[23:41] <Captainkrtek> I come from the Android community
[23:41] <Rocket2DMn> oh you're one of those heathens!
[23:41] <Captainkrtek> hahahaha
[23:41] <Rocket2DMn> ;)
[23:41] <Captainkrtek> I develop ROMs and apps
[23:42] <Rocket2DMn> thats cool, ive only done a little android development
[23:42] <Captainkrtek> and host ROMs on a server, about 4~5TB used a month 0_o
[23:43] <Captainkrtek> It might make for a good ubuntu mirror
[23:44] <Rocket2DMn> thats a lot of space
[23:44] <Captainkrtek> that's BW not space, sorry
[23:45] <Captainkrtek> my friend owns a DC, got me a good deal on a nice box
[23:49] <mdke> hmm, no this isn't quite working
[23:50] <mdke> I will have to solicit some -devel help I think
[23:56] <Rocket2DMn> hmm guess ill have to install lucid on a vm now
[23:57] <Captainkrtek> what's up Rocket2DMn ?
[23:59] <Rocket2DMn> well i need a lucid install in order to check some things from time to time
[23:59] <Rocket2DMn> since i was in lucid before i didnt need a vm :)
[23:59] <Captainkrtek> ahh
[23:59] <Captainkrtek> same here
[23:59] <Captainkrtek> getting tired of the unity launcher popping up :/


[14:36] <smoser> magicalChicken, are you around today ?
[15:13] <magicalChicken> smoser: I am out of town, but I can do some work
[15:14] <magicalChicken> I may just be slow to respond
[15:14] <smoser> do you want to ? i got somethign i want to have done today, but i can do it or let you do it :)
[15:14] <magicalChicken> Sure
[15:16] <smoser> ok. give me 10 minutes. and i'll point you at it
[15:17] <magicalChicken> smoser: ok
[15:43] <smoser> bah. almost there,
[15:46] <smoser> magicalChicken, you still there?
[15:51] <magicalChicken> smoser: yeah
[15:52] <smoser> for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1582323 . i regressed that when i "fixed" it.  i want to put the old behavior back in
[15:52] <smoser> git commit is 63501f44 that regressed
[15:54] <magicalChicken> smoser: so it was the fix for LP:1595302 that brought the regression in
[15:54] <smoser> yeah
[15:54] <smoser> so just rewvert the commit
[15:54] <smoser> but need to add some unit tests to make sure i dont stupidly break it again
[15:54] <smoser> :)
[15:55] <smoser> i just read code wrong
[15:55] <smoser> and didn't test
[15:55] <smoser> util.mergemanydict has a wierd function signature
[15:55] <smoser> it kindo f works backwards ...
[15:55] <magicalChicken> smoser: sure, I'll get some unittess written
[15:56] <magicalChicken> smoser: oh, yeah it makes more sense with reverse=True
[16:01] <smoser> magicalChicken, http://paste.ubuntu.com/23659465/
[16:01] <smoser> that is what i had just been playing with
[16:02] <smoser> lots of times i find that decorators get long winded, so this was kind of a way to try to make them less, but still wrap the 3 functions inside that fetch_base_config that basically need tob e wrapped
[16:12] <smoser> magicalChicken, ^ you see that ? if you think you make reasonable tests without my fancy / overengineered wrap_and_call, then feel free :)
[16:13] <magicalChicken> smoser: Yeah, just saw that
[16:13] <magicalChicken> it looks pretty good to me, the decorator is pretty simple
[16:13] <smoser> see test_ntp_handler
[16:13] <smoser> that is what i wanted to kind of avoid
[16:14] <smoser> the large indentation that you get with something liek that
[16:14] <smoser> or the lots-of-decorators if you got that route instead.
[16:14] <magicalChicken> yeah, the with chain gets hard to read
[16:17] <magicalChicken> it may actually be nice to move the multi-wrap function into helpers, the 'cloudinit.stages.util' could be set with a kwarg to make it more generic
[16:20] <smoser> magicalChicken, yeah.
[16:20] <smoser> i was thinking that too
[16:47] <magicalChicken> smoser: I moved the wrap_and_call function into helpers and copied the unittest you had written in
[16:48] <magicalChicken> I've gotta head out for a little bit, but I can the rest of the unittests for fetch_base_config() written this afternoon
[16:49] <smoser> magicalChicken, great.
[17:08] <smoser> magicalChicken, note, i have *kwargs wrong
[17:08] <smoser> should be **kwargs
[17:08] <smoser>         try:
[17:08] <smoser>             return func(*args, *kwargs)
[17:31]  * powersj really needs to get the unit tests on merge requests going :(
[19:15] <aixtools> hi, working on my aix-port. Quick question on /var/lib/cloud/data/ssl (specific case), but also on function and usage of /var/lib/cloud by deployed images
[19:16] <aixtools> i am guessing - but it seems /var/lib/cloud is where the first data-source gets "copied" to, so that on subsequent reboots - the "networked" datasource is no accessed - everything is coming from /var/lib/cloud.
[19:17] <aixtools> I would like a simple world :)
[19:18] <aixtools> re: /var/lib/cloud/data/ssl - is cloud-init (going to copy) that data from there to where "it should be" aka dist default location(s)?
[19:42] <aixtools> new question: keeping it to two sources: what is the difference between source NoCloud and ConfigDrive - both seem to be referencing (virtual) CD/DVD, but how are they different?
[19:48] <aixtools> bbl, have to change wifi networks...
[22:00] <powersj> smoser: Are you going to have a chance this week to look at the integration test merge proposal? I believe all the changes you requested are complete.
[22:53] <magicalChicken> smoser: I got that fixed in the version in helpers. I'm running a bit late, but I will get a pull request submitted for the unittests tonight


[01:03] <s-fox> Goodbye
[03:22] <gyyrog> hello
[07:59] <Myrtti> moin
[08:11] <AlanJenkins> morning
[08:30] <Psychobudgie> brobostigon, that issue with the video flashing started again
[08:31] <Psychobudgie> brobostigon, think I've found the culprit though, it's compiz by the looks of things. If I disable compiz while running an opengl title the issue goes away
[08:36] <AlanJenkins> Psychobudgie: does that happen on opengl games and stuff too or just video playback?
[08:41] <Psychobudgie> AlanJenkins, the issue only occurs when running some opengl titles (minecraft, warzone 2100)
[08:42] <Psychobudgie> AlanJenkins, my display starts flashing black, as if desktop effects are switching on and off
[08:42] <Psychobudgie> doesn't occur at any other time and the only way to stop it happening is to run classic with no effects
[08:43] <Psychobudgie> there are no errors reported in the logs when it happens
[08:52] <AlanJenkins> which graphics driver are you using mate?
[08:54] <Psychobudgie> latest nvidia from repo
[08:55] <AlanJenkins> mmm think I may have had that problem many moons ago, let me see if I can remember what it was (I fixed it so compiz worked without causing the flickering)
[08:55] <AlanJenkins> think it was an xorg.conf option
[08:56] <Psychobudgie> I was thinking along those lines but can't find any reference
[08:59] <Psychobudgie> brb
[09:13] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:39] <AlanJenkins> morning brobostigon
[09:39] <brobostigon> morning AlanJenkins
[10:14] <daubers> morning
[10:14] <bigcalm> Afternoon
[11:05] <Neoti_Laptop> hi all jusy about the buy a Dell inspiron R15 N5010 and would like to make sure there are no problems with ubuntu 11.04 64bit on there... i have had a look on the ubuntu certyfied hardware and i can see inspiron R15 but no mention of 5010... any help ?
[11:07] <brobostigon> Neoti_Laptop: try a live medium, besttest. :)
[12:25] <JGJones> I've been trying to configure my ddclient for updating dyndns and opendns - it works for opendns, but it's not updating my dyndns - getting this error "FAILED:   updating gwallgofi.dyndns.org: nohost: The hostname specified does not exist in the database"
[12:25] <JGJones> gwallgofi.dyndns.org does exist by the way, and have the correct ip address, and is set to dynamic ip (default in ddclient)
[12:29] <JGJones> my ddclient conf for dyndns as followed - http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/636865/
[12:45] <AlanJenkins> JGJones: is that the order the lines come in in your ddclient.conf?
[12:45] <JGJones> AlanJenkins, yes it is
[12:46] <AlanJenkins> sec just gonna post something in the pastebin
[12:46] <AlanJenkins> see if you order them the same way as this if it starts working
[12:46] <AlanJenkins> just a guess =)
[12:47] <AlanJenkins> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/636871/
[12:47] <AlanJenkins> may make no difference at all but its worth a try
[12:48] <JGJones> hmm
[12:48] <JGJones> it does
[12:49] <JGJones> I now get an invalid login...at least it's going somewhere
[12:49] <AlanJenkins> good =)
[12:50] <czajkowski> gord: make it back ?
[12:50] <AlanJenkins> think when it sees a server line it expects the things that describe that server to come after
[12:50] <AlanJenkins> so it wouldnt have set the protocol to dyndns2
[12:54] <AlanJenkins> any luck JGJones
[12:54] <AlanJenkins> ?
[12:57] <JGJones> not sure how to parse login= line
[12:57] <JGJones> my username is jgjones so it's saying login=jgjones
[12:57] <JGJones> and it's invalid
[12:57] <JGJones> so tried it as login='jgjones' and login="jgjones" and no joy either
[12:59] <JGJones> i put the login under the gwallgofi.dyndns.org line btw
[12:59] <AlanJenkins> sec
[13:01] <AlanJenkins> aha just noticed something else too
[13:01] <AlanJenkins> have you got backslashes on the end of the lines?
[13:01] <MartijnVdS> continuation \o/
[13:02] <AlanJenkins> indeed MartijnVdS =)
[13:06] <AlanJenkins> JGJones: try set it to be this http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/636877/
[13:06] <AlanJenkins> obv put your password in
[13:10] <StevenR> hrrm. anyone use daap? I'm streaming a podcast from my server (the ubuntu-uk one actually)... but I can move backwards and forwards ... Like I missed a few seconds because of some outside noise.
[13:10] <StevenR> but I can't seem to make banshee or rhythmbox go backwards
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> StevenR: what kind of daap server do you use?
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> it might not support seeking
[13:10] <StevenR> mt-daapd
[13:10] <StevenR> ahh.
[13:11] <StevenR> MartijnVdS: I'm using the natty-packaged version of mt-daapd
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> I've never used mt-daapd myself, sorry
[13:11] <AlanJenkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_Media_Server << its not been maintained for a while
[13:12] <AlanJenkins> may be worth checking for a more actively maintained one, quite possible the version you have there does not support seeking as StevenR stated
[13:12]  * MartijnVdS switched to DLNA/UPnP
[13:13] <MartijnVdS> those daemons are well-supported, because there are lots of devices (non-apple) that support it
[13:13] <StevenR> MartijnVdS: do you know the name of a daemon I could install to do that?
[13:14] <MartijnVdS> mediatomb used to be great, don't know if it still is
[13:15] <AlanJenkins> yep mediatomb is good
[13:15] <StevenR> (really, I want to have my library on my server, and have two "controls" - I want to play the media out of my laptop's sound card OR control from my laptop and play it out through the server's speakers)
[13:15] <MartijnVdS> and you need a plugin for rhythmbox/banshee on the client end (rhythmbox-plugin-coherence or built-in)
[13:15] <AlanJenkins> StevenR: mpd sounds like a good idea
[13:16] <MartijnVdS> not built-in.. gmm
[13:16] <AlanJenkins> mpd can be setup for that
[13:16] <AlanJenkins> the daemon can be running on a remote machine and has various clients to control playback on the server
[13:18] <AlanJenkins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MPD
[13:18] <StevenR> AlanJenkins: yeah, I was gonna use mpd for "case 2"
[13:18] <AlanJenkins> heh great minds =)
[13:19] <StevenR> but mpd is basically only a control protocol, right? I can't stream the media to my laptop with it?
[13:19] <AlanJenkins> you kind of can
[13:19] <StevenR> oh?
[13:19] <AlanJenkins> you use pulseaudio to transmit the sound from the server to the laptop
[13:19] <AlanJenkins> will require some messing about to get that setup though
[13:21] <AlanJenkins> if you did setup it that way though you can have both of the things you asked for
[13:21] <AlanJenkins> you can use sonata to remotely control the music the server is playing
[13:22] <AlanJenkins> and you can then also tell it to redirect the played audio to your laptop
[13:22] <StevenR> oooo
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> Wow.. that's similar music:
[13:23] <MartijnVdS> "1000000% similar" in banshee :)
[13:24] <AlanJenkins> lol yeah that sounds pretty similar =), infact must be the same track recorded at the same second in the same place by the same guy
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> yeah except it's not
[13:25] <StevenR> MartijnVdS: sure it's not a hardlink ;)
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> I think last.fm added some extra precision on the end (.0000) and banshee is ignoring the .
[13:25] <StevenR> ooops
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> StevenR: I'm sure, I've never heard of the artist :)
[13:28] <AlanJenkins> this looks like it could be interesting for you too StevenR
[13:28] <AlanJenkins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ampache
[13:28] <AlanJenkins> infact that would probs be easier to setup than messing with pulseaudio
[13:28] <AlanJenkins> as pulse can be a pita sometimes
[13:30] <AlanJenkins> what I would recommend you do though is get mpd setup on the server and sonata on your laptop, for local playback on the laptop it may be better to setup upnp on the server to share to the laptop
[13:42] <StevenR> AlanJenkins: yeah, I was thinking that would be simpler, using mediatomb
[13:42] <StevenR> or ampache
[13:43] <JGJones> AlanJenkins, getting hostname does not exist error now with your proposed changes...I'll leave it for later as gotta pop out but thanks for your help anywya :)
[14:55] <matti> MartijnVdS: Hey :)
[14:56] <matti> MartijnVdS: Would you care to try again with the invites? I've got two e-mails this morning but they seem to be expired already.
[16:54] <jacobw> http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/networking/1285735/bt-homehub-doesnt-work-with-dual-boot-linux
[17:10] <rakshasa73> hallo!
[17:10] <rakshasa73> i'm searching for a way to hide my ubuntu host from windows network resources over my lan. Can someone help me?
[17:41] <jacobw> disable the things that identify ubuntu to windows networking things
[17:43] <rakshasa73> how please?
[20:14] <Neoti_Laptop> ok i can confirm that Ubuntu 11.04 and the Dell R15 N5010 work perfectly fine, all the keys and function work right out the box with no tweaks
[20:15] <Neoti_Laptop> though i am stuck at 60h for the screen res... as ideas how to up this
[21:25] <AlanBell> Neoti_Laptop: you can't on a laptop or lcd display (they don't really work like that)
[21:26] <Neoti_Laptop> dam..........
[21:26] <Neoti_Laptop> oh well
[22:28] <matti> :)
[22:28] <brobostigon> :)
[22:32] <matti> Hey brobostigon :)
[23:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Martin Meredith] Google+: Part 1  Circles - http://www.sourceguru.net/google-part-1-circles/
[23:55] <richard> hi
[23:56] <Guest54718> i ahave a problem with firefox, it default to the following automatic config proxy   abine://auto-conf.js
[23:56] <Guest54718> anyone know why?
[23:57] <Guest54718> everytime i start firefox it default to automatic proxy with this setting    abine://auto-conf.js


[12:37] <bizhanMona> !help
[12:41] <jodh> bizhanMona: ?
[12:42] <bizhanMona> jodh: I am trying to get some info on upstart and how to write services
[12:43] <jodh> bizhanMona: have you tried the cookbook yet? http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/
[12:44] <bizhanMona> jodh: thx that is all I needed
[16:52] <bizhanMona> Hi would ubuntu will eventually migrate to systemd? could upstart and systemd co-exist?
[18:40] <SpamapS> bizhanMona: "maybe" and "maybe" are the answers to both questions :)
[18:41] <SpamapS> bizhanMona: There was some discussion and a reasoning behind sticking with upstart posted to ubuntu-devel early in the 12.10 dev cycle
[18:44] <bizhanMona> SpamapS: thx for response.  are there any blogs or pointers on how this has been done (upstart and systemd coexist)? thx
[18:44] <SpamapS> bizhanMona: AFAIK, it has not been done
[18:45] <SpamapS> bizhanMona: the only reason to do it would be if systemd continues to usurp all other daemons into it, and it becomes worthwhile to have a copy of systemd running rather than dbus/udev/etc.
[18:47] <bizhanMona> SpamapS: thx


[00:23] <picoleau> hi
[08:26] <damascene> Hi, I'm trying to connect using virt-view to my kvm machine but it says "waiting for display 1" could you please help me to connect?
[08:28] <lordievader> Is it allowed to connect to the vnc(?) server (over ssh)?
[08:32] <damascene> lordievader, by who?
[08:33] <damascene> how to enable that?
[08:35] <lordievader> What virt-view does is ssh over to the kvm host and from there opens a connection to the vnc (or spice) server.
[08:35] <lordievader> A firewall might easily disallow those connections.
[08:35] <damascene> virt-viewer --connect<EMAIL_ADDRESS>OVM2
[08:36] <damascene> I think there is no firewall issue as when I change the name of the machine to a wrong name it says there is no machine
[08:37] <lordievader> Does the firewall on the kvm host allow connections from localhost to 5900 (or whatever port the vm uses)?
[08:38] <damascene> I'll check that
[08:38] <damascene> I'm connecting from internal network
[08:39] <damascene> so there is no connection problem
[08:39] <lordievader> The loopback interface has nothing to do with the internal network.
[08:47] <damascene> so I should just check if the port 5900 is open and nothing block in.
[08:47] <damascene> ok
[08:48] <lordievader> First check what port the vm is actually using.
[08:48] <lordievader> Also, do you have the same problem with the virt-manager?
[08:52] <damascene> I can run virt-manager on the server but not through ssh -X
[08:53] <damascene> it does not forward it, and it gives no error
[09:11] <damascene> lordievader, I opened the port in the firewall but that did not change things. I had the port shown as filtered before and after putting 5900 in the allowed ports
[09:12] <damascene> however I noticed there is no password set in the vnc tab so I set a short one. it says the ip <IP_ADDRESS> the port 5900
[09:13] <damascene> should I change vnc to spice?
[10:46] <lordievader> You can run virt-manager on clients too.
[10:47] <lordievader> Nah, vnc should work. You could try setting the vnc to the 192.168 address and connect with a regular vnc client.
[11:16] <RoyK> hi all. trying to enable the watchdog on a raspberry pi2 here, I get this http://paste.debian.net/388577/
[11:16] <RoyK> it works if I systemctl start wd_keepalive, but it'd be rather nice if it started automatically as well :P
[11:16] <RoyK> #wrongchannel
[11:40] <BlackDex> Hello there. I have setup a bonding setup with 2 seperate bonding interfaces which are both on different vlans. When i add an IP sometimes i can't ping the gateway of the subnet in that vlan. If i do a tcpdump, i see that the ping goes via the loopback instead of the correct virtual-interface (or physical interface for that matter). Have posted this same question on the ubuntu-forums also with some more details: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php
[11:48] <ertyu> hi there
[11:48] <ertyu> questioN ?
[11:48] <ertyu> when you got a service is down on a server suddently how to identify why ?
[12:02] <BlackDex> ertyu: Check the logs
[12:11] <phpcoder> hello
[12:11] <phpcoder> is good to install 15.10 for a server?
[12:11] <phpcoder> or is too new?
[12:12] <RoyK> phpcoder: you can, but I'd recommend using LTS for servers, meaning 14.04
[12:13] <phpcoder> RoyK, i thought the same
[12:13] <phpcoder> but it has a very old packages
[12:13] <RoyK> and then upgrade til 15.04.1 whenever that happens, probably late 2016
[12:13] <phpcoder> like mysql 5.5
[12:13] <phpcoder> :(
[12:13] <RoyK> phpcoder: well, if you really need newer stuff, then why not
[12:14] <RoyK> 16.04 will be released april 21, so not a long way off
[12:15] <phpcoder> ok
[12:15] <phpcoder> thanks!|
[15:51] <spm_draget> I am installing remindmine from 14.04 on ubuntu. Passenger is used to access the ruby ab, but the app wants to install dependencies using bundler:  http://dpaste.com/0KHG1SR
[15:52] <spm_draget> I assume installing stuff via bundler/gem is not a good idea if I want to keep the system clean
[15:55] <sdeziel> spm_draget: I couldn't find a way to avoid pulling gems. Here is my install guide for Redmine on 14.04: https://sdeziel.info/redmine/index.html
[15:56] <spm_draget> Couldn't it be possible that some gem is installed that also ubuntu tries to install via apt and results in conflicts?
[15:58] <sdeziel> spm_draget: yes, conflicts are possible. In those cases, the gem versions will take precedence because they are installed in /usr/local/bin
[16:05] <spm_draget> Well, it will not really be a conflict… but the version installed by apt will be simply ignored because the other one takes predesence
[17:11] <leitao_> rharper, jgrimm: How should I proceed to upload debian/ppc64el images to images.linuxcontainers.org ?
[17:14] <rbasak> stgraber: ^
[17:15] <stgraber> leitao_: we just got ppc64el hardware again a couple weeks ago and will be adding this back into Jenkins once I have some time, likely after feature freeze
[17:16] <stgraber> leitao_: note that the official Ubuntu images can be downloaded using lxd-images if using LXD or by using the ubuntu-cloud template if using LXC, those images do include a ppc64el build today
[17:16] <leitao_> stgraber, good. I thought I should upload it manually. Thanks!
[17:16] <stgraber> oh, crap, you said Debian, sorry
[17:17] <stgraber> right, so yeah, no ppc64el Debian images today, hopefully we'll have enough CPU time on the ppc64el builder to build those too
[17:17] <stgraber> though the builder being sponsored by Canonical, Ubuntu is obviously the top priority, so we may only build those weekly or something
[17:19] <rbasak> stgraber: can you tell me how to tell lxd to use an http proxy to hit image.linuxcontainers.org please? I'm failing to find any docs on this.
[17:19] <rbasak> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-2308622.html is the best I can do and has no answer.
[17:19] <leitao_> stgraber, right. Is there another way to push the images to images.linuxcontainers.org?
[17:20] <stgraber> rbasak: just have http_proxy and https_proxy set in your envionrment
[17:20] <stgraber> leitao_: no
[17:20] <rbasak> stgraber: ah.
[17:20] <rbasak> stgraber: it is set, but error: Get https://images.linuxcontainers.org:8443/1.0: Forbidden
[17:20] <rbasak> I guess that's my proxy config.
[17:21] <stgraber> rbasak: hmm, that'd be my guess, yeah, images.linuxcontainers.org is a static apache server so I don't think it even can return Forbidden :)
[17:21] <rbasak> lxc remote add images images.linuxcontainers.org:443 worked.
[17:21] <rbasak> I guess it listens on that standard port number too?
[17:21] <rbasak> lxc image list images: seems to work too.
[17:21] <stgraber> it does, yeah, apache is bound to both ports
[17:22] <stgraber> I guess your proxy doesn't allow CONNECT to non-443 ports
[17:28] <rbasak> stgraber: next, "lxc image list images:" shows me the jessie amd64 image I want to start, but lists no alias. So the only identifier it has is a fingerprint. But if I try "lxc launch images:860e3f4bfab7 jessie-test" then after a long delay I get "error: image doesn't exist". Is this supposed to work, and if not, how do I map a listed image to the launch command?
[17:28] <rbasak> Sorry to bug you - if there are docs I should be using instead, then I'd be happy to read them but can't find anything.
[17:28] <spm_draget> 'bundler' on 14.04 wants to pull gcc, ruby-dev and all sorts of things. Is this intended/needed?
[17:29] <stgraber> rbasak: let me check, there sure should be an alias for it
[17:30] <Odd_Bloke> spm_draget: I guess a 'bundle install' could pull in gems that require gcc and ruby-dev to build.
[17:30] <stgraber> | debian/jessie/amd64 (1 more)   | ddfb4f30c17c | yes    | Debian jessie (amd64)   | x86_64  | 96.89MB  | Feb 14, 2016 at 7:32pm (EST)  |
[17:30] <stgraber> rbasak: ^
[17:30] <stgraber> rbasak: so lxc launch images:debian/jessie/amd64 jessie
[17:31] <rbasak> stgraber: ah. http://paste.ubuntu.com/15078417/ is what I saw
[17:31] <stgraber> rbasak: I'd have to check why starting from the short hash failed, my guess is that since the server isn't an actual LXD daemon, it's only got the fake fs tree setup for the full hash, not the partial one
[17:31] <stgraber> rbasak: right, see line 7
[17:31] <rbasak> stgraber: because of the really long output, I only noticed line 108, and wanted to launch that one.
[17:32] <stgraber> ah yeah
[17:32] <stgraber> we had folks who wanted access to the previous builds which we still have on the server (we keep 3) so we're exporting those two without aliases
[17:32] <stgraber> then since most folks pipe the list to | less because it's so long, we made it so that all images with aliases show up first
[17:33] <rbasak> I see. So I should be able to use the fingerprint like that, except there's a problem on the server which means it doesn't work?
[17:33] <rbasak> "lxc launch images:debian/jessie/amd64 jessie-test" is hanging too.
[17:33] <rbasak> I wonder if there's a different issue and I'll be told this image doesn't either in a moment.
[17:34] <rbasak> Yup
[17:34] <rbasak> "error: image doesn't exist
[17:34] <rbasak> "
[17:34] <rbasak> I wonder if that's proxy related.
[17:38] <stgraber> let me try here
[17:39] <stgraber> stgraber@dakara:~/data/code/lxc/lxd (stgraber/master)$ lxc init images:debian/jessie/amd64 jessie
[17:39] <stgraber> Creating jessie
[17:40] <stgraber> Retrieving image: 100%
[17:40] <stgraber> rbasak: ^ so yeah, I'd blame your proxy :)
[17:40] <stgraber> stgraber@dakara:~/data/code/lxc/lxd (stgraber/master)$ lxc init images:187f36b41c02 jssie1
[17:40] <stgraber> Creating jssie1
[17:40] <stgraber> Retrieving image: 100%
[17:40] <stgraber> rbasak: also, note that the actual download is performed by the LXD daemon, so you must have http_proxy and https_proxy set in the daemon's environment too
[17:40] <rbasak> stgraber: that's probably it.
[17:40] <rbasak> Is there a standard way of doing that?
[17:41] <stgraber> rbasak: I have no idea whether systemd respects /etc/environment, if it did, that'd be the easiest way. Otherwise, well, you'd have to write a unit override in /etc/systemd/system or something and then use whatever the environment stanza is in systemd (sorry, on a trusty system right now, can't check here)
[17:44]  * rbasak tries
[19:28] <Razva> does Ubuntu Server has any netinstall, like CentOS, so I can boot the machine from a virtual ISO then continue install from the net?
[19:36] <bearface_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/14.04/
[19:52] <maswan> Razva: Sure, just pxeboot the alternate installer - http://ftp.acc.umu.se/ubuntu/dists/xenial/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/
[20:12] <RoyK> Razva: ubuntu server installs most things over the net except the initial install
[20:16] <patdk-lap> it can do the initial install over the net also, using the net iso/pxe/...
[23:32] <igneus> hey, was wondering if someone would mind helping me with my new ubuntu server 14.04, having issues with picking up the NIC
[23:32] <igneus> got a copy of the interfaces file and ifconfig here http://pastebin.com/QFuQ3H90
[23:39] <tomreyn> igneus: ifup eth0 says what?
[23:39] <igneus> let me check
[23:40] <tomreyn> also look at dmesg -T | less, type (upper case) G to go to the end and look for relevant entries there, scrolling up as needed.
[23:41] <igneus> ifup: interface eth0 already configured
[23:41] <igneus> I'll check the dmesg now as well
[23:44] <tomreyn> igneus: also try "service networking restart" (note this may disconnect you in case you are currently using this computer to chat here)
[23:44] <igneus> yeah, I've tried "/etc/init.d/networking restart" which I believe is the same (correct me if I'm wrong), but I'll try it again
[23:46] <tarpman> tomreyn, igneus: http://askubuntu.com/a/442333
[23:47] <tomreyn> igneus: it's not the same for sure but may provide the same effect
[23:48] <igneus> @tomreyn, I see, well "service networking restart" stated it failed to stop the job, and when it tried to start it, obviously it stated it was already running
[23:48] <igneus> @tarpman, I'll give that a go
[23:50] <igneus> well, "sudo ifdown eth0 && sudo ifup eth0" reported no such process and failed to bring up eth0
[23:53] <tarpman> igneus: might be trying to delete a route (to the configured gateway) that doesn't exist. is there actually such a route right now? if not, commenting out the gateway line might get it through ifdown
[23:53] <tarpman> igneus: that's a wild guess though.
[23:54] <igneus> I see, well if I understand your question, when I "ping <IP_ADDRESS>" it reports no known network, I'll give a go commenting out the gateway line, got nothing to lose lol
[23:55] <tarpman> I don't think you understood my question.
[23:55] <tarpman> you want to read the output of 'route' or maybe 'ip route'
[23:57] <igneus> yeah, definitely did not understand that lol
[23:57] <igneus> let's give those a roll