[05:13] <katnip> https://irc-attachments.kde.org/96TjjH1z/file_30223.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x719) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/5r0dgxt2/file_30231.jpg Hey. Who faced such a problem by displaying the use of RAM. How can this be?
 Worst of all, the system hangs hard.  So I created (and unlocked) the partitions manually before the installation. But it seems that the installer now does not realize that these are encypted, since I don't get prompted a password on boot and just end up in the initramfs conso
[09:50] <kubuer> le. Is there something in the installer that I'm missing or do I need to create crypttab, grubconfig and whatever manually now? :)
[11:30] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[12:02] <viewer|47> hey guys - just installed kubuntu on my laptop for the first time and a bit worried about having lost my wifi connection in the middle of the installation process...will this cause issues with the OS down the line? would appreciate your help...thanks
[12:09] <BluesKaj> viewer|47, you need an internet connection to complete your installation, so if an ethernet connection is available then use that
[12:10] <viewer|47> the installation has already completed
[12:10] <viewer|47> i'm now just worried about future issues that could crop up as a result
[12:10] <BluesKaj> is your wifi working ?
[12:10] <viewer|47> i'm just not sure if the loss of a wifi connection during the install is serious or not
[12:11] <viewer|47> it is now but it's dropping out randomly all week and decided to do so during the installation of kubuntu
[12:11] <viewer|47> everything seems to be working fine right now but i don't know how essential an intact wifi connection is during theinstallation
[12:13] <BluesKaj> try to run sudo apt update; sudo apt full-upgrade to make sure you have all the needed packages
[12:15] <viewer|47> thank you for that...it said all packages up to date and 0 to upgrade...i assume this means i'm in the clear?
[12:15] <BluesKaj> yup
[12:17] <viewer|47> thank you so much for your help - i'd hate for shit to go wrong and me to constantly wonder if it was because of the wifi dropout
[12:19] <BluesKaj> just update and upgrade every few days and any fixes will be included
[12:20] <viewer|47> will do - thanks :)
[12:21] <BluesKaj> not sure about your intermittent wifi issue if it stll persisits or not ...guess time will tell
[12:22] <viewer|47> it's a provider issue...they finally sent a technician over last week and found some cabling damage but it hasn't resolved the issue completely
[12:22] <BluesKaj> you could try changing wifi channels on your router especially if you live in an apartment where all your neighbours are on the default channel 6
[12:24] <viewer|47> i'm definitely going to try that - right now they (my ISP) still have no idea what's causing the dropouts, i don't know if you're familiar with Australia's NBN system but it's way behind the rest of world's speed and connectivity efficiency
[12:25] <viewer|47> unfortunately they're now just doing a "monitor and see" approach
[12:26] <viewer|47> fingers crossed they get their shit sorted soon so i can avoid verging on a breakdown whenever it drops out during something important
[12:27] <BluesKaj> not familiar with NBN
[12:29] <viewer|47> that's fortunate
[12:41] <BluesKaj> here in Canada we're bit behind the US and the EU in terms of internet technology, but our ISPs do try to keep with the latest technology albeit they're slower to adopt due to the costs of providing internet in a vast country with a relatively small population
[12:45] <viewer|47> vast country and small population down under as well - only we've privatised our infrastructure to a corp that now has a monopoly with little competition and little drive to truly update what is (clearly) an outdated system
[12:45] <viewer|47> spent 5 years in canada as an international student btw - miss it everyday :)
[12:46] <BluesKaj> that is a bummer about the monopoly
[12:47] <BluesKaj> where in Canada were you located
[12:47] <BluesKaj> ?
[12:47] <viewer|47> halifax NS
[12:48] <aire88> where you at?
[12:50] <BluesKaj> I'm 400km N of Toronto
[12:50] <BluesKaj> near a small city, Sudbury
[12:52] <BluesKaj> my area is commonly known as Northern Ontario
[12:52] <BluesKaj> where you in Oz ?
[12:53] <aire88> right in the center of our red desert - small rural town of Alice Springs :)
[12:56] <BluesKaj> ahh yes I've heard of Alice Springs
[12:57] <BluesKaj> from travel books about Australia
[13:00] <BluesKaj> don't think i could handle the climate there
[13:07] <aire88> I didn't think I could handle it either - nor Canadian winters for that matter, but you end up adjusting despite yourself...that said it is my first year in Alice (previously in Brisbane)
[13:09] <BluesKaj> looks like a neat area though
[13:10] <BluesKaj> neat/interesting
[13:16] <aire88> i was surprised to find very eclectic mix of people and the town easily grows on you - much to your own surprise, always thought i was a city person thru and thru
[13:16] <aire88> but you settle in quite nicely, etc
[13:16] <aire88> i used to do a lot of camping in canada and Alice is perfect if that's what you like to do
[13:23] <BluesKaj> right, we had a family "camp" as they're called here, which is a summer cottage near a lake
[13:24] <BluesKaj> very common in this part of the country due to the thousands of lakes and rivers
[13:26] <BluesKaj> we really should move this conversation to #kubuntu-offtopic
[13:44] <BluesKaj> bbl, have to do some switching
[13:46] <aire88> no worries - will switch to offtopic
[17:16] <oerheks> :-)
[17:26] <if3vvd> If someone with graphics/resolution+wine experience is here, could he or she take a look into this issue? https://pastebin.com/qN2E2DS2
[17:26] <nikolaj_basher> Is there any who has experinced that KDE start lacking when you plugin the dockstation and disable the laptopscreen?? When all screens is activated (to external screens) and the laptop nothing lacks
[17:27] <if3vvd> nikolaj_basher, what graphics driver? What is the dmesg output?
[17:28] <nikolaj_basher> if3vvd, how do I check which graphics driver it use?
[17:30] <if3vvd> nikolaj_basher, can you pastebin your complete dmesg output? That would help to understand more about your hardware
[17:30] <nikolaj_basher> if3vvd, should i make a before and after dump?
[17:35] <nikolaj_basher> if3vvd, This is before i disable the screen
[17:35] <nikolaj_basher> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Qjnqj9ZzQs/
[17:35] <nikolaj_basher> if3vvd, this is after (when lacking) https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/SRZ6v7qtbv/
[17:37] <if3vvd> ok, there are no main driver issues listed there. could you show the output of /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
[17:40] <nikolaj_basher> if3vvd, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/syWj4spRnP/
[17:46] <emanuel_> Hi everybody, I need a little help, my internet connection is intermittent
[17:46] <if3vvd> nikolaj_basher, there are no errors anywhere. You have to talk with the graphics experts and show them the dmesg and xorg output. Join #dri-devel and ask there
[17:47] <nikolaj_basher> if3vvd, Thanks :-D
[18:53] <nikolaj_basher> I maded a group called webdev and added two users and added af library in /var/test and set chown to root:webdev and set the promission to 775 but the user is denied to write files to the test, what can cause this problem
 not sure but also try: sudo chown www-data:www-data /var/test/
[19:46] <Intelo> I switch user, and it behaves like I logout user. All previous work is gone. What could be wrong and how to fix it. I am using kubuntu LTS 18.x
[19:46] <Intelo> even if I press ctrl+alt+f1 or f2 I can switch but it behaves just like logout
[19:47] <Intelo> same like https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/6kn35z/is_kdes_user_switching_broken/
[20:42] <Emanuel_> Hi, I need little help, my internet connection is unstable
[23:04] <dillon> can someone help me?
[23:07] <dillon> I am very new to linux (first install) and I think I'm in over my head
[23:11] <genii> dillon: Which things are troubling you the most?
[23:12] <dillon> well I installed kubuntu on my predator and then again on my brothers laptop (really old, really slow with windows) and my wireless works great but his doesn't.  Is there a reason for this?
[23:14] <dillon> it was with the same .iso and the same process to install both
[23:15] <oerheks> probably different hardware
[23:16] <dillon> it is, and I am wondering how can I get his wireless to work correctly?
[23:16] <Dragnslcr> Especially if it's an older WiFi chipset that never got Linux support
[23:16] <oerheks> some wireless brands/devices are better supported
[23:16] <dillon> it is a HP 15-da32wm
[23:17] <dillon> I also was wondering (without using wine) to get dropbox to work with my predator?
[23:24] <Dragnslcr> dillon- from a terminal, you can use lspci to list devices, which should include the WiFi adapter
[23:25] <Dragnslcr> Then you can search on the web for the manufacturer and model to find out if it's supported at all
[23:28] <dillon> ok, thanks I'll try it out.  What about vpns for linux?  I have nord (i bought it before all that stuff happened) I used it on windows and my phone but can I use it on linux?
[23:29] <Dragnslcr> Most likely. There are VPN clients for Linux that should work with standard VPNs, but some services might not follow the standards.
[23:32] <Dragnslcr> Looks like they have Linux packages that you can download, but I'm usually paranoid about installing third-party packages, especially for functionality that's already included
[23:32] <Dragnslcr> https://support.nordvpn.com/Connectivity/Linux/1047409422/How-can-I-connect-to-NordVPN-using-Linux-Terminal.htm has instructions for using openvpn, though
[23:33] <dillon> oh ok, thank you so much.  So my brother has a realtek semiconductor Co. ltd rtl8821ce 82.11ac PCIe Wireless Network Adapter using lspci command
[23:34] <Dragnslcr> System Settings -> Network -> Connections also lets you add VPN connections
[23:35] <dillon> ok, thank you so much, what about my brothers wireless issue?
[23:38] <Dragnslcr> Yeah, a search on Google is saying that there's no official driver
[23:39] <dillon> is there anyway around it?  Even with a generic driver?
[23:41] <dillon> I found a github page with the driver but I'm not sure how to go about installing it after I download it
[23:41] <Dragnslcr> Did you find https://github.com/tomaspinho/rtl8821ce ?
[23:42] <dillon> https://github.com/FreedomBen/rtl8188ce-linux-driver  this is the one I found and it lists his hardware
[23:43] <Dragnslcr> Looks like that one is for different adapters than what he has
[23:43] <Dragnslcr> There is a rtl8821ce-dkms package, though, which might work
[23:44] <Dragnslcr> I would have thought the driver manager would have found that
[23:47] <dillon> is there a way to get it from my laptop to his?  I do see the freedomben github page
[23:53] <Dragnslcr> There's probably an easier tool, but worst case, you can run "apt install -s rtl8821ce-dkms" on his laptop to get the list of packages needed, then "apt install --download-only ..." on your machine
[23:54] <dillon> Would that work without him having internet?
[23:54] <Dragnslcr> It should. "-s" means simulate, so it doesn't actually download or install any packages.
[23:55] <dillon> ok, Thank you again for all the help
[23:57] <Dragnslcr> No problem. I have to leave for a while, but hopefully someone else can help more if you need it.


[22:05] <Jw> Hi to everyone!!!
[22:12] <Jw> Someone can help me? I have installed the system but I can't update it.
[22:13] <Jw> It say there are not more support.
[22:13] <Eickmeyer[m]> Jw: Which version of Ubuntu Studio?
[22:13] <Eickmeyer[m]> !yy.mm
[22:16] <Jw> Where can I see the version? I don't find it.
[22:17] <Eickmeyer[m]> Jw: You would already know if you had just downloaded/installed it. You need to download a supported version from https://ubuntustudio.org/download.
[22:17] <Eickmeyer[m]> But, you can open a terminal and type "lsb_release -a" to find out.
[22:18] <Jw> My version is 18.10
[22:19] <Eickmeyer[m]> !cosmic | Jw
[22:19] <Eickmeyer[m]> Jw: You can no longer update that version. You need to download a version on the link I gave you before.
[22:19] <Jw> :(  Then I was losing my time downloading and installing...
[22:20] <Jw> Thank you so much!!
[22:20] <Jw> I will download and install the next version!
[22:20] <Eickmeyer[m]> Jw: Where did you download from?
[22:21] <Jw> From the official page but some months before
[22:21] <Jw> I have saved the .ISO
[22:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> Jw: Considering we release a new version every 6 months, that probably wasn't wise.
[22:24] <Jw> Well, thank you so much! I will start to download and install.
[22:24] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, good luck. :)


[16:59] <KE1HA> charlie-tca:  you around at the moment ?
[17:11] <charlie-tca> yeah
[17:17] <KE1HA> charlie-tca:  is there a fixed number of ISO point releases for LTS versions ?
[17:17] <charlie-tca> 4
[17:18] <KE1HA> cool, and for the non-LTS they dont do point releases correct?
[17:18] <charlie-tca> Although that could change
[17:18] <charlie-tca> correct, no point releases for non-LTS
[17:19] <KE1HA> and for syncing LTS ISO's, if you use the basename say, 10.04, is is ln -s to the latest point release?
[17:19] <KE1HA> is it*
[17:20] <charlie-tca> don't know
[17:21] <KE1HA> Hmm, need to test that. was just wondering if you sync the base ISO, if it will link to the latest point release.
[17:22] <charlie-tca> I just sync from current, so for me, it doesn't use the point
[17:22] <KE1HA> as looking in the release directory for 10.04, they list both 10.04 and 10.04.1 at least for Ubuntu & Kubuntu
[17:22] <charlie-tca> point only counts if you sync from "release", not from daily
[17:22] <KE1HA> roger that, current it dev, and I've got my scripts workign for dev, was just working on migration from dev to release.
[17:23] <charlie-tca> Why? If you have the latest daily, it is what the release will be
[17:24] <charlie-tca> lucid point releases are tested from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/lucid/
[17:24] <KE1HA> some folks like to keep a repository for previous release ISO's, so was woking on somethign to zsync them.
[17:25] <charlie-tca> I see
[17:25] <KE1HA> that's a good point though, point release testing is diffrent than release, and current / dev
[17:25] <charlie-tca> None of the images ever have the .1, .2, etc
[17:26] <charlie-tca> the name doesn't change, only a file on the image changes to show it is a .1 image
[17:27] <KE1HA> but if your only syncing current, that's dev, and not release .. I forgot about point release syncs
[17:27] <charlie-tca> You have to download from a different directory, instead of a different file name. Once they hit the mirrors, the mirrors will not all maintain the different versions, some will only keep the latest
[17:27] <charlie-tca> for any release, the last development image before the release is still the released image
[17:27] <KE1HA> yeah, it's a bit complicated when for scripting.
[17:29] <KE1HA> so to test a point release where should your base sync be from, releases?
[17:29] <charlie-tca> I don't know that there is any advantage of zsync vs downloading for final images of anything. If you have an image, there is no need to zsync it, and if you don't have it, zsync won't work anyway.
[17:29] <charlie-tca> lucid point releases are tested from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/lucid/
[17:29] <KE1HA> well, yes and no, if you dont ahve it, and it's there, it will download it.
[17:30] <charlie-tca> If you are maintaining all the images, and it zsyncs, it will replace the current image you have, won't it?
[17:30] <KE1HA> if it's in the same dir, yes, but if you create dir's for the point it wont.
[17:31] <charlie-tca> okay
[17:31] <KE1HA> it also depends on the ISO name.
[17:31] <charlie-tca> they maintain the same names
[17:31] <KE1HA> like, you could zsync 10.04.iso then, merely move it to 10.04.1 and zsync for a lot less bandwidth usage, but with mv, you'd loose 10.04 base ISO
[17:32] <charlie-tca> yup
[17:32] <charlie-tca> not much point in moving it if you are going to replace it anyway
[17:32] <KE1HA> so to keep both, 10.04.0 merely cp ./10.04.0 to ./10.04.1 and zsync that image.
[17:33] <charlie-tca> yup
[17:33] <KE1HA> I suppose it all depends on how many ISO's one wants to keep on hand :-)
[17:33] <charlie-tca> but you don't start with .0
[17:33] <KE1HA> rr on no .0 it's merely 10.04
[17:33] <charlie-tca> the first release is 10.04, then we start adding points
[17:34] <charlie-tca> Yes, and each one takes a lot of space
[17:34] <charlie-tca> I maintain all the active server, ubuntu, and xubuntu images
[17:34] <charlie-tca> and sometimes, I also add in mythbuntu and studio for testing
[17:34] <KE1HA> this is al a mute point for non-point releases, which was what I was after, figuring out how dev operates, v.s. LTS point release.
[17:35] <KE1HA> charlie-tca:  your gonna  like what Im working on :-)
[17:35] <charlie-tca> I rsync, since my machines are old and slow
[17:36] <KE1HA> it's not ready for prime-time, but can send you a pre-alfa to ahve a look see.
[17:36] <charlie-tca> okay
[17:39] <KE1HA> can I send a file through here, or is it better to e-mail ?
[17:39] <charlie-tca> email
[17:40] <KE1HA> ok
[17:48] <KE1HA> ok, sent it too you. Several of the funcitons areant ready yet, and of cource the docs are finished.
[17:48] <KE1HA> opps docs are not finished.
[17:48] <charlie-tca> I will look at it
[17:49] <KE1HA> its' optimised for a terminal windos size of 130x25 or so.
[17:52] <KE1HA> I just finished the Selection Function: Main >> Configure >> View List .. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu config screens are working, haven't codded EDubuntu yet. Zync is what Im working on still so it's not codded yet.
[17:55] <KE1HA> charlie-tca:  also on the Config Menu >> Configure Options is borked still, that's why I was asking about point releases.
[17:56] <charlie-tca> Okay
[17:58] <KE1HA> when it's done, all ya gotta do is select what ISO's ya want, and away it goes, or that's the theory any way :-)  You may want to comment on how easy it is to see the menu's, I tried to use High-Contrast coloring.
[17:58] <charlie-tca> um, it will be a few minutes before I run it
[17:59] <KE1HA> no worries.
[19:45] <KE1HA> charlie-tca:  sent you an updated version with some functions disabled and error handling, that way you dont get the trapped error [1] status / shutdowns.
[20:02] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit, umm, gnumeric in its present is unusable in Maverick
[20:03] <charlie-tca> You can not enter relative cell addresses, every time you need to enter data in a new cell, you must point and click that cell with the mouse, pointing a t a cell with data in it erases the entry
[20:06] <charlie-tca> and, it zips the file when saving, instead of saving in gnumeric file format
[20:28] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Is this going to be fixable?
[20:32] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I don't understand/can't reproduce the first issue
[20:32] <mr_pouit> and afaik, gnumeric file format is gzipped
[20:33] <charlie-tca> but the saved format won't open unless I change name from ???.zip to ???.gnumeric
[20:34] <charlie-tca> great... When I am entering data, I can not use the keyboard at all to move from the cell when the data is entered. I also can not use keyboard to copy/paste data
[20:35] <mr_pouit> mmh, it saves as .gnumeric here :/
[20:36] <mr_pouit> and for the other bug, could you give me a simple test case?
[20:36] <charlie-tca> Maverick? maybe it is something to do with updates aren't quite the same as the new installation?
[20:37] <charlie-tca> If I enter =sum(A1,B1) and copy it, the cell references do not change
[20:39] <mr_pouit> mmh, works here too, if I copy it, it'll set the new one to e.g. sum(B1;C1)
[20:39] <charlie-tca> nice
[20:40] <charlie-tca> Well, when the bug reports come in after release, they will be valid, anyway.
[20:40] <mr_pouit> you should try with a new profile, to see if it's reproducible
[20:40] <charlie-tca> okay
[20:41] <charlie-tca> As soon as I can get this spreadsheet finished. I had to install OO.o to get a usable app


[01:42] <user|57924> having an issue with tar thru kde causing system lockup. Tried to run kbackup and also tried tar script via konsole. Both cause system to lock with data going to USB 1.5TB HD partition. I can run the same script from a console login and it completes.
[01:44] <user|57924> note that this is an almost complete system backup
[01:45] <user|57924> Kubuntu version 16.04 LTS is being used for OS
[05:06] <timmybee> Hi everyone
[05:07] <timmybee> Trying to remove the space above the firefox tabs. Ive tried creating a userChome.css and adding some settings in the there however this doesnt seem to work
[06:25] <onlyabyte> Hey guys, how do you find Kubuntu 18.04 LTS?
 @onlyabyte, What do you mean?
[06:25] <onlyabyte> I'm planning on using it but I have one question about KDE on it. Will it stay on 5.12 LTS but still get the other updates eg: 5.12.5 LTS etc.
[06:26] <onlyabyte> ie: bug fixes
[06:26] <onlyabyte> I'm in love with KDE so I want to use something stable where I can get high uptime :)
 @onlyabyte, I'm pretty sure it will update
[06:27] <onlyabyte> Debian is too old so Kubuntu LTS is the best candidate
 @onlyabyte, I mean, it's the same as Ubuntu, Gnome was just updated to 3.28.2
[06:27] <onlyabyte> Oh goodie!
 @onlyabyte, Debian has KDE Plasma 5.8 LTS
[06:27] <onlyabyte> I doubt Ubuntu 18.04 would get 3.30 though
 @onlyabyte, Yeah, that will be up for 18.10
[06:27] <onlyabyte> I'm sick of GNOME, ugh.
[06:28] <onlyabyte> Been using it for so long and I put KDE on my system just to test and boy oh boy, is it fast!
[06:28] <acheronuk> 5.12.5 is in our updates PPA for the impatient to get it, but is also currently in testing for updates via the main archive
 @onlyabyte, Yeah, Plasma has freaking improved
[06:28] <onlyabyte> I'm not very impatient. Just curious, will the LTS stay on LTS KDE?
[06:28] <onlyabyte> I prefer stability :)
 @onlyabyte, AFAIK yes, until the next LTS
[06:29] <onlyabyte> Yay!
[06:29] <acheronuk> onlyabyte: for archive or our updates ppa, yes
[06:29] <onlyabyte> 5.12 is already so good (right now on Fedora)
[06:29] <onlyabyte> Oh okay, so if I wanted updates, I would need your official PPA?
[06:29] <onlyabyte> Or is it unofficial (ie: not from Kubuntu)
[06:30] <acheronuk> https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu/PPAs
 @onlyabyte, IK there is the Kubuntu official ppa for backports
 @onlyabyte, Yeah, I think it's official
[06:31] <onlyabyte> That's awesome!
[06:31] <acheronuk> Kubuntu updates PPA = updates we intend to try to get into the archive eventually
[06:31] <onlyabyte> I cannot wait to switch over to Kubuntu LTS!
[06:31] <onlyabyte> I see...
[06:32] <acheronuk> Kubuntu backports PPA = backports of much new things we probably won't for 18.04
 @acheronuk, Here: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa
 @ccarguelo, Correct for the updates one
 @acheronuk, This one? … https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/ppa?field.series_filter=bionic
 Ups, sent it filtered
 Sorry, yes. That is the 'updates' one
 Great, isn't that ppa aded by default on Kubuntu?
[06:36] <onlyabyte> acheronuk: How would you comment on the stability of Kubuntu 18.04? Would you say KDE and Ubuntu is no longer known as the "unstable" distro?
 @ccarguelo, No. It's officailly ours, and the packages are basically what we intend to ship as real archive updates, but we can't have PPAs enabled by default. Ubuntu policy. Which I do agree with.
[06:40] <onlyabyte> I'll be back, going to migrate to Kubuntu!
[07:58] <batteronizer> Hi, sometimes when I change brightness using the function keys on my laptop, the brightness changes accordingly but within a few moments reverts to what it was before my adjustment.
[07:59] <batteronizer> I use Kubuntu 18.04. And for my fellow countryme, that's the correct usage of the word "revert".
[07:59] <batteronizer> *countrymen
[08:18] <obert> but how to upgrade to kubuntu 18? lsb_release wasn't enough to checkk for a new version?
[08:47] <batteronizer> obert: what is your current version?
[08:48] <batteronizer> upgrade to 18.04 from 16.04 would be available after 18.04.1, around July
[08:48] <obert> batteronizer: 17
[08:49] <batteronizer> obert: 17 what?
[08:49] <obert> 17.94 I guess
[08:49] <obert> 04
[08:49] <obert> the lts one
[08:49] <batteronizer> What do you mean guess? Check
[08:49] <obert> how to check it then? I don't remember the command
[08:49] <batteronizer> Use google
[08:50] <obert> ...
[08:50] <obert> Ubuntu 17.10 \n \l
[08:52] <batteronizer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes?_ga=2.185750953.1477541786.1526806216-1488121166.1526806216#Upgrading_from_Ubuntu_17.10
[08:52] <obert> anyway an answer like 'use google' in a chat where people should be glad to talk it is a bit ridiculous
[08:53] <obert> thanks
[08:54] <batteronizer> obert: What's ridiculous is saying "I guess" when you want help and not putting effort to look for a simple command.
[08:58] <obert> batteronizer: it is easier to paste the right command without let people getting mad on find infos in the whole web
[08:59] <obert> especially if someone got a slow internet
[08:59] <batteronizer> obert: It's easier for someone helping you if you don't say things like "I guess"
[09:00] <onlyabyte> Hi all!
[09:00] <onlyabyte> I'm loving Kubuntu 18.04! :D
[09:00] <onlyabyte> Finally, I've found the right distro for me.
[09:01] <onlyabyte> Just wanted to say thank you to the people who contributed to this distribution. It's superb!
[09:20] <acheronuk> onlyabyte: great to hear :)
[09:27] <ktecho> Yeah, kubuntu is amazing :)
[11:26] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[12:07] <gmozafarian> hi
[12:08] <diogenes_> hi
[12:57] <obert_> got kubuntu 18.04 thanks people
[20:47] <inspectorcluseau> ;;tlast
[21:23] <R13ose> I am getting this error when I test disc for defects on live usb: check finished: errors found in 2 files.  How do I fix this?
[21:34] <skomorokh> Upgraded 17.10->18.04, all worked out well except one thing: my favourites disappeared and when I add some back, log out and back in again... they're gone once more.
[21:35] <skomorokh> Is that a familiar situation to anyone? Any hints where I might look?
[21:45] <valorie> skomorokh:
[21:46] <valorie> you might have some permissions problems which means your favs are not being saved properly
[21:46] <valorie> perhaps from running a gui app as root
[21:50] <valorie> you might have to chmod $HOME to fix
[21:55] <skomorokh> valorie: Hm, it was just working on 17.10, pretty sure the upgrade wouldn't have changed the perms. Any idea which file holds the favs so I can check it?
[21:56] <valorie> it would be in ~/.local or ~/.config
[21:56] <skomorokh> But like... .config/k-button-thingy?
[21:57] <valorie> perms are just a few bits, so they do sometimes mess up because..... the world is imperfect
[21:57] <R13ose> Any thoughts on my question?
[21:57] <valorie> I don't know which one, but those are just text files
[21:57] <valorie> you can read 'em
[21:58] <skomorokh> valorie: Heh, there's rather a few to read through.
[21:58] <valorie> R13ose: I was a bit unclear on whether the problem was in your install, or on your USB
[21:58] <valorie> skomorokh: sure, but most are obviously not what you need
[21:58] <valorie> people in #kde might know more
[21:59] <R13ose> valorie: I am not sure what the defect checks but I am hoping is on my HDD.  The HDD can't get through the full bootup as it get stuck but unsure why.
[22:00] <valorie> R13ose: `sudo apt install -f`
[22:00] <valorie> where f=fix
[22:00] <valorie> should reinstall anything messed
[22:00] <R13ose> valorie: will that delete files?  I am using the try kubuntu on the live usb
[22:01] <valorie> oh
[22:01] <valorie> hmmm
[22:01] <valorie> so not an install
[22:01] <valorie> do you have any other computers to try that USB on?
[22:02] <valorie> I would hesitate to advise going ahead if you aren't even booting up on the live USB
[22:02] <R13ose> valorie: meaning?
[22:03] <R13ose> I have another computer
[22:03] <valorie> I would try it there and see what happens
[22:03] <valorie> I don't have the expertise to give you more advice I'm afraid
[22:04] <R13ose> I tried fsck but still problems
[22:06] <R13ose> valorie: I am using the live usb
[22:07] <valorie> R13ose: I would make a backup of that HDD right now
[22:07] <valorie> how old is it?
[22:07]  * valorie has lost 3 HDs or SSDs in the past few months
[22:07] <valorie> one literally right after I made a full backup
[22:08] <R13ose> valorie: I did make a backup
[22:08] <valorie> good
[22:08] <valorie> IMO it is time to order a replacement
[22:08] <valorie> I mean, there are programs that will lock out badblocks
[22:08] <valorie> but that just tides you over until the new one arrives IMO
[22:10] <R13ose> How can this be done if I get to kubuntu screen and the boot locks after awhile on that screen
[22:11] <valorie> I think bad blocks runs in the commandline
[22:12] <valorie> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Badblocks
[22:14] <R13ose> valorie: thanks, trying some of them
[22:14] <valorie> !info e2fsprogs
[22:15] <valorie> best of luck, R13ose
[22:15] <valorie> I know the budget doesn't always welcome dying drives
[22:17] <R13ose> Thanks
[22:27] <xponent> I am using a System 76 laptop which has just a trackpad with no left or right buttons; just left or right click on the trackpad itself.  There is no functionally for right click.
[22:28] <valorie> xponent: i'm using s sys76 as well - right click works fine for me
[22:28] <valorie> even using both works as middle-click
[22:29] <valorie> Sysinfo for 'valorie-Oryx-Pro': Running inside KDE Plasma 5.12.5 on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS (Bionic Beaver) powered by Linux 4.15.0-20-generic, CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz at 3346-3389/3800 MHz, RAM: 31762/32119 MB, Storage: 279/1144 GB, 279 procs, 620.41h up
[22:29] <valorie> when you say "no functionality" what do you mean?
[22:32] <xponent> When I place the cursor on the wallpaper, right click on trackpad does not open a menu.
[22:33] <valorie> :(
[22:33] <valorie> works for me
[22:33] <valorie> did that work in popOS or whatever was installed when you got it?
[22:34] <valorie> I guess it would be pop or ubuntu
[22:34] <acheronuk> they quit
[22:36] <valorie> :(
[22:36] <valorie> I wonder why people do that
[22:36] <acheronuk> perhaps they had turned off the right click on desktop action? that is possible in 'mouse actions' but right click would stay functional everywhere else
[22:37]  * acheronuk shrugs
[22:37] <valorie> seems a bit crazy to do that, unless you have kids who mess with your laptop or so
[22:37] <valorie> cats
[22:37] <valorie> :-)
[22:38] <acheronuk> someone on here the other day had their toddler press the PC power button in the middle of a 17.10 to 18.04 upgrade!
[22:39] <valorie> ouch!


[00:05] <lifeless> jamesh: thanksgiving ... tab-completion
[00:27] <floam> tab-completion? being python it can probably use optcomplete and get it for free
[00:27] <floam> assuming it uses optparse
[00:28] <sabdfl> moin all
[00:30] <poolie> sabdfl, hi
[00:30] <sabdfl> howdy poolie
[00:30] <poolie> sabdfl, if you're free i'd like to talk to you later
[00:31] <sabdfl> sure
[00:45] <lifeless> floam: we derive from it
[00:46] <Peng> Oh, bundle is a hidden command? Why? Because of send?
[00:46] <lifeless> floam: but we have subcommands and stuff
[00:46] <lifeless> Peng: yes
[00:46] <floam> now just make completions for fish..
[00:46] <floam> (yes, I'm a weirdo)
[01:17] <thumper> lifeless: ping
[01:18] <thumper> lifeless: unping
[02:25] <lifeless> thumper: ?
[03:30] <Peng> Hmm. I just noticed that a couple small branches of mine haven't been converted to packs yet. And I messed up their shared repo situation.
[03:32] <alla> Hello! Bzr is great, all hail bzr.. But.. there's this feature I noticed on the darcs wiki which looks pretty neat: http://wiki.darcs.net/DarcsWiki/SpontaneousBranches  ... in bzr is there a way to merge in a bunch of patches that all have a log message starting with a common identifier eg: RT#3242  ?
[03:33] <alla> at the moment I'm sort of doing: bzr log -m "9036"
[03:33] <alla> to get the revision numbers, and then merging the patches in manually..
[03:36] <Peng> Well, you shouldn't use patches.
[03:37] <Peng> Hmm, I don't think you can do that.
[03:45] <alla> Sorry perhaps my terminilogy is off.. er s/patches/bundles/  ?
[03:45] <alla> *terminology!
[03:46] <beuno> alla, how is this solved in Darcs?
[03:46] <Peng> If you mean bundles, then okay.
[03:46] <Peng> I don't think you can do that with bzr.
[03:47] <Peng> I don't think that's even compatible with bzr.
[03:48] <alla> Well to my mind the way to solve it would be to extend the revisionspec to include matches against log file messages.. but I don't know squat :D
[03:48] <poolie> alla, you could get the revision numbers from log and then cherrypick-merge them
[03:48] <Peng> Oh.
[03:48] <poolie> it won't be as slick as on darcs, because they just treat branches as a bag of patches
[03:48] <poolie> alla, that might be interesting
[03:48] <poolie> you could write a python script to merge them all
[03:48] <Peng> What I was just talking about was with exactly what bzr was talking about.
[03:49] <Peng> Not what you were talking about.
[03:50] <alla> poolie: is cherrypick-merge a special plugin/functionality? Or does that just refer to the process of merging with revision numbers?
[03:58] <sabdfl> i seem to have badly locked my central server repo
[03:58] <sabdfl> bzr break-lock works, but then the next invocation of bzr complains about another lock
[03:58] <Peng> sabdfl: Packs?
[03:58] <sabdfl> this server has 0.17
[03:58] <sabdfl> nope
[03:58] <Peng> Oh.
[03:59] <Peng> Shouldn't hurt to upgrade.
[03:59] <sabdfl> not my server
[03:59]  * beuno used to delete the lock/ dirs manually when 0.17 locked itself that way
[03:59] <Peng> bzr+ssh?
[04:00] <sabdfl> beuno: how do i do that?
[04:00] <sabdfl> oh, heck, didn't see the time, got to run
[04:00] <sabdfl> thanks for any help typed here!
[04:01] <beuno> sabdfl, if you've got ssh, you should be able to delete the folders inside .bzr
[04:01] <alla> hmmm.. is there a way to merge in multiple revisions in one go..? Something like bzr merge ../somerepo/ -r 3..4,10..12
[04:01] <beuno> ah, np, good evening/morning  :D
[04:01] <alla> Which would give you revision 4, 11 and 12 I guess.
[04:01] <alla> Because subsequent merges, require subsequent commits...
[04:02] <alla> Where are a bzr merge ../somerepo/ -r 10..12   .. pulls two revisions over, but only requires one commit.
[04:03] <beuno> alla, you want to merge each revision individually?  because otherwise, normal merging will bring in all of the revisions
[04:03] <alla> beuno: Yes individually.. cherry picking only the relevant changesets across.
[04:05] <alla> Ie, if there are 10 changeset (10 commits) in the branch, and I want to only grab the changesets with revision numbers: 3, 6, 8, then from what I can see I need to perform three separate merges and three separate commits.
[04:05] <alla> Whereas ideally, I would perform 1 merge consisting of three changesets, and 1 commit.
[04:06] <Peng> Ideally with Bazaar, I guess you should change your workflow to not use so many cherrypicks.
[04:06] <beuno> alla, you could use PQM to solve that
[04:07] <beuno> alla, http://bazaar-vcs.org/PatchQueueManager
[04:08] <beuno> (the workflow, maybe not the specific case)
[04:10] <beuno> and/or something like bunddle buggy: http://bundlebuggy.aaronbentley.com/
[04:43] <lifeless> sabdfl: bzr break-lock centra-server-url
[05:20] <alla> beuno: I don't think my workflow / use case is particularly exceptional. I just want to merge in a bunch of changes from a fellow developers branch. Ie pull over the relevant changesets into my branch, and merge them in.
[05:32] <baijum> hi all
[05:32] <baijum> While pushing my branch to bzr in launchpad I am getting an error like this:
[05:32] <baijum> No handlers could be found for logger "bzr"
[05:32] <baijum> Is this related to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/152746
[05:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 152746 in launchpad-bazaar "bzr commit to bzr+ssh hangs on 'No handlers could be found for logger "bzr"'" [High,In progress]
[05:34] <baijum> any work around for this problem ?
[05:37] <lifeless> baijum: you can replace bzr+ssh with sftp for now/
[05:40] <baijum> lifeless, with sftp, I am getting an error like this:
[05:40] <baijum> bzr: ERROR: Can't rename /srv/sm-ng/push-branches/00/00/1a/46/.bzr/repository/lock/6cwjx3rh21.tmp to /srv/sm-ng/push-branches/00/00/1a/46/.bzr/repository/lock/held: /srv/sm-ng/push-branches/00/00/1a/46/.bzr/repository/lock/held already exists
[05:49] <lifeless> baijum: thats probably due to hitting ctrl-C on the previous operation
[05:49] <lifeless> baijum: bzr break-lock sftp://.... will fix that
[05:52] <baijum> lifeless, thank you very much, that worked  !
[05:52] <baijum> lifeless, Can I switch back to bzr+ssh later ?
[05:54] <lifeless> probably right now if you like
[05:56] <baijum> lifeless, thanks !
[06:12] <sabdfl> lifeless: i've done that a couple of times
[06:12] <sabdfl> both remotely, and locally on the server
[06:13] <alla> Hi, is there a way to merge in multiple non-sequential revisions in one go..? Something like bzr merge ../somerepo/ -r 3..4,10..14
[06:14] <lifeless> sabdfl: is it devpad, or bazaar.lp.net ?
[06:14] <lifeless> alla: no; but you can do 'bzr merge ../somebranch/ -r 3..4'; 'bzr bzr ../somebranch/ -r 10..14 --force'
[06:19] <sabdfl> lifeless: devpad
[06:19] <Peng> Gaack!
[06:19] <lifeless> what branch is giving you trouble ?
[06:19] <Peng> I'm frequently getting "bzr: ERROR: The branch format Bazaar-NG meta directory, format 1 is already at the most recent format." when trying to bzr upgrade.
[06:20] <Peng> In this case, it was switching from dirstate-tags to dirstate to see what would happen.
[06:21] <lifeless> Peng: I don't think we have a downgrader written for that; there is nearly no reason to do so.
[06:22] <sabdfl> lifeless: my /code/mark/launchpad/project-news branch
[06:23] <Peng> It was after reading a mailing list message in the rich-root thread that said "Our framework for conversion doesn't handle the case of "might be compatible, depending on features used" very well.".
[06:23] <Peng> I was curious what the error would be.
[06:23] <lifeless> Peng: dirstate and dirstate-tags both have the same repository format; you can't trigger what aaron talks about between the two
[06:24] <Peng> ...
[06:24] <lifeless> Peng: you'd need knit3 and knit, for instance, but don't have knit3 exposed as its not supported yet
[06:24] <Peng> They're a different branch format?
[06:24] <lifeless> dirstate and dirstate-tags differ only in branch format
[06:25] <lifeless> sabdfl: ls project-news/.bzr/branch/lock/held -ld
[06:25] <lifeless> drwxr-sr-x 2 mark lpteam 4096 2007-11-21 03:53 project-news/.bzr/branch/lock/held
[06:25] <lifeless> sabdfl: its definately held; and your repository isn't locked
[06:25] <sabdfl> held?
[06:26] <sabdfl> nothing should be accessing that branch/repo right now
[06:26] <lifeless> sabdfl: when you break-lock, does it error ?
[06:26] <sabdfl> no, it asks me twice, i say y both times
[06:26] <sabdfl> the next operation says it can't get the lock
[06:26] <sabdfl> rinse and repeat
[06:27] <Peng> lifeless: If they're a different branch format, why does it just mention the repository format in the error, then? It gives me the impression that it only checked the repository and not the branch or working tree.
[06:27] <sabdfl> i have a flaky connection from here (:-)) and had to ^C a push earlier
[06:27] <sabdfl> btw, what's /var/lib/misc/passwd.db and why does bzr try to access it?
[06:29] <Peng> sabdfl: Google says "[PAM] [c]aches name service directories (passwd and group) locally in /var/lib/misc/passwd.db and /var/lib/misc/group.db."
[06:31] <Peng> Hmm. I guess it's just a UI issue with the error message.
[06:31] <lifeless> sabdfl: getent
[06:31] <lifeless> sabdfl: I would guess that is.
[06:31] <lifeless> sabdfl: please break-lock, and don't do anything else. Tell me when you've done so.
[06:32] <sabdfl> locally on the machine, or remotely?
[06:32] <lifeless> give bzr the remote url
[06:32] <lifeless> as in, do what you have been doing so far
[06:32] <sabdfl> i did it locally
[06:34] <alla> lifeless: My desire is to be able to merge in multiple non-sequential changesets that are functionally related. The changes will conflict when running the second merge with --force.
[06:35] <lifeless> alla: it will only conflict if it would have conflicted in a single command
[06:35] <AfC> Has anyone else observed `bzr serve` instances leaving connections in CLOSE_WAIT for a *long* time?
[06:35] <alla> lifeless: ok maybe I didn't test it right.
[06:39] <lifeless> AfC: I don't think so; jml is son leave and he'd know for sure from the supermirror
[06:40] <AfC> lifeless: want a bug report for the observation? I only noticed because (obviously) we get low traffic and it's really obvious...
[06:40] <lifeless> AfC: please
[06:44] <AfC> Launchpad is borked. I'll try to do it later.
[06:44] <lifeless> AfC: thanks
[06:44] <lifeless> AfC: borked how ?
[06:44] <AfC> +filebug reporting error page
[07:45] <alla> Is this a bug?: If the revision that you specify to merge, occurs after the point of divergence then the actual changesets seem to get lost. For example:
[07:45] <alla> Say you had two branches that diverged at revision 300. Then both branches had another say ten different commits added to them both.
[07:45] <alla> If I'm in one branch and I run: `bzr merge ../otherbranch -r 305..306`, then run `bzr status`, it does _not_ report that there are pending merges awaiting commit.
[07:45] <alla> Whereas if I had run the merge command from the point of divergance: `bzr merge ../otherbranch -r 300..306`,then `bzr status` reports pending merges. bzr ver 0.92.0
[07:50] <igc> bbiab
[07:50] <lifeless> alla: this is documented I believe on our cherrypicking web page.
[07:50] <lifeless> alla: basically, we allow you to *do* cherrypicks, but not to *record* them. We will be fixing this in the future, hopefully shortly after correcting our network performance.
[07:52] <Peng> How is network performance going to be improved. I mean, what are you planning to do?
[07:57] <lifeless> two main things
[07:58] <lifeless> streaming push and pull fine tuning
[07:58] <lifeless> in hpss, this is largely there but not all the way
[07:58] <floam> the network performance seems not too bad to me anymore, with the newest type of storage
[07:58] <lifeless> secondly, the negotiation to decide what is being pushed/pulled will be tuned
[07:58] <floam> worst part for me is waiting for SSH to connect
[07:58] <lifeless> reduce round trips
[07:58] <lifeless> send relevant data, that sort of thing
[07:59] <floam> and then a second time, to update. takes 3-4 seconds usually just to establish a connection typically
[08:03] <alla> lifeless: Ok cool. Thanks for the info.
[08:50] <ubotu> New bug: #164288 in bzr "bzr serve leaves connections in CLOSE_WAIT a *long* time" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164288
[10:07] <Peng> Yuck. Pushing a 1.6 KB pack on a 100 KB repo took like 20 seconds. Whee round-trips.
[10:42] <vila> can someone confirms that james_w here is james westby in RL, I want to get in touch with him
[10:47] <dato> vila: yes
[10:47] <vila> dato: thanks
[11:18] <lifeless> Peng: interesting; we try to optimise out round trips by reading 64KB at a time; did something else happen? how many packs do you have in the repo? was there a progress bar and what did it say was happening ?
[11:18]  * lifeless sleeps
[11:21] <Peng> lifeless: There were about 4 remote packs, the largest 20 KB and the rest about 2.
[11:21] <Peng> lifeless: Several more local packs from things I've uncommitted.
[11:23] <Peng> lifeless: No progress bar.
[12:13] <theSoftMan> hello :-)
[12:13] <theSoftMan> there is somebody ?
[12:13] <theSoftMan> how does it work ?
[12:17] <theSoftMan> hello
[12:18] <theSoftMan> fgsd
[12:23] <dato> theSoftMan: just ask your question, and if somebody who knows the answer is around, they will answer you.
[12:25] <theSoftMan> ok thanks ( it's the first time i use an irc chat )
[12:25] <theSoftMan> my question is :
[12:25] <theSoftMan> what GUI can i use for bazaar on windows system ?
[12:26] <theSoftMan> what's the most user friendly ?
[12:26] <theSoftMan> like the winCVS program then i use actually.
[12:52] <mwhudson> theSoftMan: i hear that QBzr is ok
[12:53] <mwhudson> (don't use a gui for bazaar or windows myself, so take this with a pinch of salt)
[12:53]  * mwhudson files bug 164324
[12:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164324 in bzr "pushing to non-ascii url breaks both with bzr+ssh and sftp" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164324
[13:00] <ubotu> New bug: #164324 in bzr "pushing to non-ascii url breaks both with bzr+ssh and sftp" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164324
[13:34] <theSoftMan> thanks for answering... i see the last version was released on november 2007, i try it immediatly
[13:38] <Peng> Bazaar has pretty frequent releases.
[13:40] <Peng> Usually just about monthly.
[14:09] <jelmer> hey schierbeck
[14:12] <schierbeck> hi jelmer :)
[14:14] <schierbeck> jelmer, am i the only one who thinks that the development of bzr-gtk has come to an abrupt halt?
[14:15] <schierbeck> it's been more than a week since the last new revision in trunk, despite there being so much work to do...
[14:15] <jelmer> nope :-) I'm busy with some other things at the moment, don't have time to look into bzr-gtk
[14:15] <schierbeck> jelmer: what about phanatic?
[14:16] <jelmer> the same appears to be the case for Szilveszter
[14:16] <jelmer> do you have some open merge requests?
[14:16] <jelmer> abentley: ping
[14:16] <schierbeck> well, the menubar branch for starters
[14:16] <schierbeck> it contains a lot of improvements
[14:16] <schierbeck> and i have other branches based on that
[14:17] <schierbeck> but i never seemed to get a definitive answer on whether it was approved or not
[14:20] <jelmer> schierbeck: Can you bring it up on the mailing list again?
[14:21] <jelmer> I'll see if I can get bundlebuggy for bzr-gtk back up
[14:22] <panosl> New bzr user switching from svn. Single developer on multiple machines.On svn I stored the main repository on a server and did checkouts. Can the same accomplished with bzr's shared repository, but without losing the ease of local branching?
[14:22] <Lo-lan-do> Hi all
[14:22] <Lo-lan-do> For once, I'm not coming to report a bug :-)
[14:22] <schierbeck> jelmer: okay
[14:22] <jelmer> hey Lo-lan-do
[14:23] <jelmer> hi panosl
[14:23] <Lo-lan-do> I'm looking for insights about rebasing.
[14:23] <Lo-lan-do> If I rebase a branch of mine, and some people have branched off it, will then encounter problems?
[14:23] <jelmer> panosl: If I understand you correctly, yes.
[14:24] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do, bzr will consider your branch to have diverged
[14:24] <jelmer> so they'll have to "bzr pull --overwrite"
[14:24] <Lo-lan-do> jelmer: Hm.  And if they did commits on their branch, they'll have to rebase too, right?
[14:25] <jelmer> yes
[14:25] <Lo-lan-do> Okay.  I'll probably reserve my rebasing to local, temporary branches then.
[14:25] <Lo-lan-do> Thanks!
[14:25] <Lo-lan-do> Also, I need to thank you again for bzr-svn: I haven't had a problem with if for weeks :-)
[14:26] <jelmer> cool, that's great to hear :-)
[14:26] <panosl> jelmer: a project has already branched. If I want to move that a shared repository, can I do so without it having prior knowledge that is was branched? Since i will do a checkout from each machine after that point.
[14:26] <Lo-lan-do> Although the setup isn't quite simple: I work in lightweight checkouts of branches stored in a shared repo, one of which is bound to the upstream SVN repo
[14:27] <Lo-lan-do> But "cd ~/debian/gforge-trunk ; bzr pull ../gforge-sid" does exactly the right thing, and that's very very nice.
[14:28] <jelmer> panosl: Shared repositories are just a storage optimization - they don't change what you can or can't do with a branch
[14:30] <Lo-lan-do> Ah, question: is there a way to have "bzr missing" use --line by default?
[14:30] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do, you can define a new alias
[14:30] <jelmer> something like "[ALIASES]\nmissing=missing --line\n" in ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf
[14:31] <jelmer> schierbeck: also, garyvdm seems to have disappeared :-/
[14:33] <Lo-lan-do> Yay :-)
[15:24] <scorpioxy> Hey guys. I have a general question regarding some source code from bzr. For communication over ssh, If i launch it with serve --inetd, it uses pipes exclusively right? Otherwise, it opens up a socket for its communication. Is that correct?
[17:24] <jam-laptop> lifeless, sabdfl: I'm pretty sure I know what is happening. You are trying to push over bzr+ssh to a locked location. This starts a bzr process, which starts attempting a lock. You ^C and run break-lock, which breaks the original lock
[17:24] <jam-laptop> but the process is still there
[17:24] <jam-laptop> and sees that now it can grab the lock
[17:24] <jam-laptop> and then immediately stops
[17:24] <jam-laptop> so you actually need to "bzr break-lock" 2 times
[17:24] <jam-laptop> once to clean up the really stale lock
[17:25] <jam-laptop> and a second after the process you spawned realizes it
[17:25] <Peng> Does this have to do with pushing packs over bzr+ssh?
[17:25] <jam-laptop> the process would clean itself p after about 5 minutes
[17:25] <jam-laptop> Peng: no, pushing knits
[17:25] <jam-laptop> Peng: the bug with packs is something else entirely
[17:25] <Peng> Okay.
[17:25] <jam-laptop> though if we fixed the current pack problem
[17:25] <jam-laptop> we would then run into this as well
[17:25] <Peng> Nice.
[17:25] <jam-laptop> with the caveat that packs don't need to hold the lock as long
[17:26] <jam-laptop> so it would be harder to trigger
[17:26] <Peng> Oh.  It isn't always triggered.
[17:27] <jam-laptop> Peng: correct
[17:27] <jam-laptop> this only happens if you try to push to a branch which is already locked
[17:27] <jam-laptop> it then takes 5 minutes
[17:27] <jam-laptop> or 2 break-lock commands to clean it up
[17:28] <jam-laptop> (5 minutes + 1 break-lock, or 2 break-locks)
[17:44] <elmo> Committing revision 4 to "/etc/".
[17:44] <elmo> modified postfix/main.cf
[17:44] <elmo> Committed revision 4.
[17:44] <elmo> when did bzr become that verbose?  and is it staying that way?
[17:45] <Odd_Bloke> elmo: Which part are you talking about?  The location line, or the status line(s)?
[17:45] <Odd_Bloke> (Or both)
[17:45] <elmo> Odd_Bloke: it's till me twice it's committing/committed to revision 4.  I suppose I'm mostly talking about the first line, which is new (to me and/or 0.92)
[17:46] <Odd_Bloke> It's reasonably new, though I can't remember exactly which version it was introduced in (as I tend to track bzr.dev).
[17:51] <Peng> 0.92, I think. Maybe 0.91.
[17:55] <ubotu> New bug: #164370 in bzr-eclipse "first 5 lines are missing from old version in diffview" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164370
[18:17] <scorpioxy_> Hey guys. I have a general question regarding some source code from bzr. For communication over ssh, If i launch it with serve --inetd, it uses pipes exclusively right? Otherwise, it opens up a socket for its communication. Is that correct?
[18:31] <mwhudson> yay for running "bzr selftest" instead of "./bzr selftest"
[18:32]  * mwhudson reads abentley's latest mail with interest
[18:33] <mwhudson> abentley: interesting how the TransformPreview tests you sent me fail with "AttributeError: 'PreviewTree' object has no attribute 'inventory'"
[18:33] <mwhudson> abentley: thanks a lot for that mail, by the way
[18:43] <jelmer> abentley: have there been schema upgrades for bundlebuggy recently?
[18:43] <jelmer> abentley: I'm getting the following error:
[18:43] <jelmer>     raise exceptions.InvalidRequestError("This SchemaItem is not connected to any Engine or Connection.")
[18:43] <jelmer> sqlalchemy.exceptions.InvalidRequestError: This SchemaItem is not connected to any Engine or Connection.
[18:43]  * jelmer isn't quite teh turbogears guru
[18:44] <Peng> Oh, BB is TurboGears too?
[18:47] <jelmer> yup
[19:24] <lifeless> Peng: interesting
[19:25] <Peng> What is? Slow pushing?
[19:35] <Peng> Hmm. "bzr send -o foo" == "bzr bundle >foo"?
[19:36]  * Peng has fun with locations.conf.
[19:38] <schierbeck> jelmer: have you looked at the signing features of bzr?
[19:38] <jelmer> schierbeck: yes
[19:39] <schierbeck> i'm trying to implement a ui for it, but it seems i'm only able to get the raw signature text
[19:39] <schierbeck> it'd be nice with some helper methods...
[19:40] <schierbeck> like signature_is_valid()
[19:40] <schierbeck> are such helpers planned?
[19:41] <jelmer> they are planned, but nobody has worked on them yet
[19:41] <lifeless> hi coffeedude
[19:41] <jelmer> I think there should be a spec or two up on launchpad
[19:41] <lifeless> all hands was frenetic, I haven't fixed that bug yet sorry.
[19:41] <schierbeck> jelmer: darned!
[19:41] <lifeless> schierbeck: Would love it if you worked on validation
[19:42] <schierbeck> lifeless: i've been looking at PyMe, which is mentioned on the bzr wiki, but it seems overly complicated
[19:42] <lifeless> there may be better bindings now
[19:42] <lifeless> I think jamesh wrote something
[19:42] <schierbeck> perhaps i should ask him, then
[19:43] <jelmer> schierbeck, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+spec/bzr-gpg-keysigning
[19:43] <schierbeck> i can't seem to find any good bindings
[19:43] <schierbeck> :)
[19:43] <lifeless> options
[19:43] <lifeless> http://py-gnupg.sourceforge.net/
[19:44] <lifeless> http://www.amk.ca/python/code/gpg
[19:44] <jelmer> I looked at one for pqm that was quite nice
[19:44] <jelmer> can't remember the name though
[19:47] <schierbeck> i've looked at both solutions, but neither seem perfect
[19:48] <lifeless> pyme
[19:48] <lifeless> and obviously :)
[19:49] <coffeedude> lifeless: hey.  Busy channels today.  Didn't see you pop up.
[19:51] <schierbeck> http://www.amk.ca/files/python/GPG.txt seems promising
[19:51] <schierbeck> at least it's simple
[19:52] <schierbeck> i think i'll hook it up directly with the ui -- if it works well, i'll send in a patch to bzr
[19:53] <woei> Is this error known, or is there something wedged in my python setup ? http://pastebin.com/m7f87cd35
[19:55] <jelmer> woei: That's definitely a bug, one way or another
[19:57] <jelmer> are you sure revision 1 contains that particular file?
[19:58] <woei> I've also had python core dump when using bzr gannotate, so I suspect it's not completely bzr's fault: http://pastebin.com/m6ceb218f
[19:59] <woei> jelmer: when doing bzr -ci, it said 'added bar/baz\nCommitted revision 1.' So I'd reckon it should be there
[20:00] <jelmer> the identity of the file has changed though
[20:00] <lifeless> coffeedude: :)
[20:00] <jelmer> I guess this is why the svn folks have "peg_revision"
[20:00] <jelmer> woei: the file bar/baz in r1 is not the same file as bar/baz in r3
[20:01] <jelmer> bazaar tries to find revision 1 of the file bar/baz in r3
[20:01] <woei> jelmer: you mean you can't delete a file, add it (or another file with the same name) later and then get back at the contents of the first file ?
[20:01] <lifeless> woei: you totally can
[20:01] <lifeless> jelmer: thats an internal error, not NoSuchFile
[20:02] <jelmer> lifeless: yes, I think the bug is that the error is unclear
[20:02] <jelmer> lifeless: it shouldn't mention the file ids
[20:02] <lifeless> jelmer: and look at the inventory
[20:02] <lifeless> baz', parent_id='bar-20071121194931-1hkhbeykywwxmvhz-1',
[20:02] <lifeless> bar', parent_id='TREE_ROOT'
[20:02] <lifeless> bar/baz is there
[20:02] <lifeless> jelmer: users won't see that error
[20:02] <lifeless> this is something different
[20:03] <jelmer> hmmok
[20:03] <lifeless> jelmer: though I *may* be wrong
[20:03] <lifeless> jelmer: we normally search out for all file ids in all the trees given
[20:04] <woei> would the trackback in ~/.bzr.log be of any help ?
[20:04] <lifeless> woei: looking still more closely; "baz-20071121195029-sf17yppaiamx4ul0-1" != 'baz-20071121194944-ypbqg5bh6okxs8fc-1'
[20:05] <lifeless> woei: so jelmer's initial comment is probably the right answer; this is a genuine bug
[20:05] <lifeless> woei: could you please file a bug
[20:05] <lifeless> woei: that pastebin is enough
[20:05] <woei> trackback: http://pastebin.com/m797641e5
[20:05] <woei> ok, I'll file a bug on launchpad
[20:09] <schierbeck> jelmer: okay, i've got a working implementation
[20:09] <schierbeck> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dasch/bzr-gtk/signatures
[20:10] <schierbeck> lifeless: would this be a start?
[20:11] <jelmer> schierbeck: I think this is a start
[20:11] <jelmer> schierbeck: but it would be nice if you could also show the key id
[20:11] <jelmer> trust level, etc
[20:11] <schierbeck> i'm thinking that we could add a more comprehensive description below the first paragraph
[20:12] <schierbeck> jelmer: yeah, i'll look into it
[20:12] <jelmer> I can now create a key with uid that matches your email address
[20:13] <jelmer> and it will the revision has a signature
[20:13] <lifeless> there are two key things to validating signatures
[20:13] <lifeless> 1) is the signer the author
[20:13] <lifeless>   - you want a trust level from gpg that is high enough to assert this. baz has all the code to do this, written for gpgme.
[20:14] <lifeless> 2) is the author authorised to push code to that branch
[20:14] <jelmer> we already discussed a little bit of this on the bzr-gtk list
[20:15] <jelmer> going for just (1) first would be the easiest thing to do, and all the required things for that are already present in bzr core
[20:15] <lifeless>   - this requires mapping identity to policy; doesn't really apply when checking revisions you are merging from etc, its mainly a policy thing for fetch, but it could be expanded etc
[20:15] <lifeless> yes, agreed
[20:15] <jelmer> (except for some utility functions for checking signatures, etc)
[20:18] <schierbeck> jelmer: this is by no means ready for the public -- i'm incrementally making it secure
[20:19] <schierbeck> jelmer, lifeless: could i get you guys to sign your future commits to bzr and bzr-gtk?
[20:19] <jelmer> schierbeck, do you know 'bzr sign-my-commits' ?
[20:20] <schierbeck> jelmer, i do, but i would like other signatures, besides my own
[20:20] <schierbeck> and i'm too lazy to set up a test branch with 'fake' signatures
[20:20] <jelmer> schierbeck, If you need an example, bzr-svn has most revisions signed
[20:20] <ubotu> New bug: #164395 in bzr "Unclear error message instead of NoSuchFile" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164395
[20:20] <schierbeck> i'd like to have some test data when making the ui
[20:20] <schierbeck> jelmer: great
[20:22] <lifeless> schierbeck: most of mine should be signed already
[20:22] <jelmer> I think I've signed most of my revisions for bzr-gtk
[20:22] <lifeless> and all pqm's should be signed
[20:22] <jelmer> but there's no way to push signatures atm afaik
[20:27] <schierbeck> lifeless: did you say that bzr already had support for some of these things?
[20:27] <lifeless> hmm ?
[20:27] <jelmer> schierbeck: no, baz - the previous incarnation of bazaar
[20:28] <schierbeck> shoot
[20:28] <schierbeck> can it be easily ported?
[20:29] <lifeless> its in C
[20:29] <lifeless> and it uses gpgme
[20:29] <lifeless> but it might be useful for inspiration, or not.
[20:32] <schierbeck> lifeless: well, there is PyMe, although i haven't quite figured out how to use it for our purposes
[20:32] <schierbeck> the implementation i added seems to work pretty well -- we could customize it for bzr
[20:33] <schierbeck> that is, the one from http://www.amk.ca/files/python/GPG.txt
[20:33] <lifeless> I'm not trying to tell you how to do it
[20:33] <lifeless> I was just letting you know what prior art I know of
[20:33] <schierbeck> i don't mind inspiration at all :)
[20:34] <schierbeck> i haven't used gpg much, so some things are not obvious to me
[20:38] <komputes> is anyone able to do http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[20:38] <komputes> i tried the tutorial but ran  into a few errors
[20:40] <lifeless> komputes: could you pastebin them somewhere ?
[20:40] <komputes> will do
[20:41] <schierbeck> does any of you guys know how to deal with custom icons in the application?
[20:41] <schierbeck> i guess they need to be installed in a special place and stuff
[20:43] <schierbeck> *do
[20:54] <komputes> lifeless, http://pastebin.com/m15942a13
[20:55] <Jug> what is the recommend way of setting up the bzr server? using the dedicated ot bzr over ssh?
[20:55] <lifeless> bzr+ssh is the most secure
[20:57] <lifeless> komputes: ah!
[20:57] <lifeless> komputes: so, do you have an sftp account at gmail.com
[20:57] <lifeless> ?
[20:58] <lifeless> komputes: you need an sftp server running and an account on it, to push to sftp somewhere.
[20:59] <arjenAU> Jug: ssh works well for me.
[21:00] <lifeless> its also the simplest.
[21:03] <komputes> lifeless, tutorial on that?
[21:03] <komputes> i dunno does gmail do sftop?
[21:03] <komputes> sftp
[21:04] <komputes> do i need an acct for ssh?
[21:05] <radix> no, gmail does not do sftp :)
[21:38] <lifeless> komputes: well you need a server to push to; if you don't have one already you can use a free hosting service like launchpad
[22:27] <lifeless> morning poolie
[22:27] <poolie> hello
[22:27] <poolie> is it still the case that we don't have dapper debs?
[22:28] <lifeless> yes
[22:28] <lifeless> we have no bananas
[22:36] <ubotu> New bug: #164423 in bzr "test_fetch should be per-inter-repo" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164423
[22:51] <pygi> yo
[22:55] <igc> morning
[22:56] <poolie> hi
[22:56] <igc> hi poolie
[22:57] <pygi> poolie is here! Long time no see :)
[22:57] <poolie> hello
[22:58] <poolie> i was on holiday last week, and at UDS and the canonical conference before that
[23:00] <lifeless> I'm in
[23:00] <igc> me to
[23:01] <pygi> :)
[23:03] <abentley> lifeless: plenty of us are bananas :-)
[23:04] <abentley> mwhudson: Yes, you correctly guessed what got me started on the diff update.  It would be nice if PreviewTree didn't need an inventory at all.
[23:30] <schierbeck> hi guys
[23:30] <schierbeck> has anyone here played with the visual studio integration?
[23:38] <Acro> LarstiQ> You there?


[00:01] <vychune> HEEEEEEELLLLLLOOOO anybody home?
[00:01] <linuxman410> i am here
[00:01] <vychune> hey how you doing
[00:02] <linuxman410> doing ok got my netbook fixed and running jolicloud on  it
[00:02] <vychune> how is it?
[00:03] <linuxman410> pretty fast i have a old asus eeepc 701
[00:03] <vychune> wow thats nice
[00:04] <linuxman410> yeah the asus eeepc 701 is old but i hate to give up on any machine no matter how old
[00:05] <vychune> i know thats right
[00:05] <linuxman410> latest version of jolicloud is based on ubuntu 10.04
[00:05] <vychune> really i didnt know that
[00:07] <linuxman410> the 701 was my first laptop even though its a netbook so it has sentimental value
[00:07] <vychune> lol
[00:08] <vychune> im about to try it
[00:08] <linuxman410> they still sell for over a hundred dollars on ebay
[00:10] <vychune> wow really
[00:11] <linuxman410> yep
[00:12] <vychune> well moms being an ass again gotta go
[00:13] <linuxman410> seee ya later
[02:02] <cyberanger> now over 120G, yikes
[02:03] <cyberanger> says another 7 Gigs or so
[02:06] <cyberanger> should be done in 4 hours or less
[03:14] <wrst> cyberanger: hope you have plenty of drive space!
[03:46] <cyberanger> wrst: drive space is covered, 250G drive, system uses 22G of it
[03:47] <cyberanger> that's counting swap, btw
[03:47] <cyberanger> not to metion I trimmed the system down, with a backup 300G portable drive JIC
[03:48] <cyberanger> making the mirror priority one for the moment
[03:48] <cyberanger> plan on upgrading from the  250G to a 1TB or more
[03:48] <cyberanger> which'll solve the issue for a few years
[03:49] <cyberanger> and I didn't gauge security, so it's actuall gonna be between 130 and 131GB
[03:50] <cyberanger> when it's all done
[03:50] <cyberanger> source and binary, hardy and lucid
[03:50] <cyberanger> all packages
[03:50] <cyberanger> just gotta finish the security branches
[04:10] <wrst> sounds fun :)
[04:11] <wrst> well good night cyberanger finally got my wireless working with natty so letting the updates come in while i sleep
[04:11] <cyberanger> wrst: cool
[04:12] <cyberanger> when I fininsh this, I'll have the whole repo for ubuntu
[04:12] <cyberanger> but that's a month down the road at least
[04:21] <cyberanger> it'll come in handy for an installfest
[12:32] <wrst> cyberanger: when you get that set up does it stay updated?
[12:33] <cyberanger> yes and no
[12:34] <cyberanger> I've gotta cron the script
[12:34] <cyberanger> but by default all it does is update
[12:34] <cyberanger> if you've got 0 files, you gotta update everything
[12:34] <cyberanger> by downloading everything
[12:35] <wrst> which takes forever +5 days :)
[12:35] <cyberanger> sorta like wget -c
[12:35] <wrst> ahh ok
[12:35] <cyberanger> it can continue from 0, but to do so, it's gotta grab everything
[12:36] <cyberanger> I've grabbed anything, so if something changes, it'll just grab the changes
[12:36] <wrst> oh and good morning cyberanger :)
[12:36] <cyberanger> and actually I can tweak it to use rsync (which I'm actually gonna do for the long term)
[12:37] <cyberanger> which will be better, than if a file changes, it'll only grab what actually changes
[12:37] <wrst> that would be a lot easier it would seem
[12:37] <cyberanger> well, debmirror is really a useful tool, very very flexable
[12:37] <cyberanger> netritious uses it too
[12:37] <cyberanger> and it'll use http, ftp or rsync
[12:38] <cyberanger> for grabbing all files, it was a coin toss (and did take two days)
[12:38] <cyberanger> for the confrence, gonna use http
[12:38] <wrst> that much in two days probably would have taken me 10 :)
[12:38] <cyberanger> avoid firewall issues
[12:39] <cyberanger> 133G
[12:39] <cyberanger> well, actually less
[12:39] <cyberanger> I gotta do a little cleanup
[12:39] <cyberanger> but if you don't need source, and pull security from it's default
[12:39] <wrst> i remember when we only had hard drives measured in MB's cyberanger :\
[12:40] <cyberanger> you can really be flexable about it
[12:40] <cyberanger> wrst: I would say your old, but I can recall those machines too
[12:40] <cyberanger> so doing that would be a low blow
[12:40] <wrst> ha ha first machine i had was a 500 something MB machine so i'm not overly ancient
[12:40] <cyberanger> even for my low standards
[12:40] <wrst> however i did have a commodore 64 when i was about 10
[12:41] <cyberanger> Tandy something or other
[12:41] <cyberanger> supposidly a laptop (thus I joke about the model being a Tandy Suitcase)
[12:41] <cyberanger> somewhere in between those two
[12:42] <cyberanger> I can't recall for sure
[12:42] <cyberanger> but my first computer was 13.9 GB (the first one that was 100% mine, could do anything I wanted with it)
[12:43] <cyberanger> and even now, that's old, 250GB is as low as anyone seems to go
[12:43] <cyberanger> and yet, I've fit my entire system here under 20GB
[12:43] <cyberanger> not that I needed to
[12:44] <wrst> i remember there were commodore 64 "laptops" that were like a suitcase nuke or something
[12:44] <wrst> yeah if not for things like music, i could easily be happy with 20GB
[12:44] <cyberanger> there's no proof suitcase nukes exist, but ok
[12:44] <wrst> if i'm not running windows atleast, if so i think win 7 64 takes about that much space
[12:44] <cyberanger> ;-)
[12:45] <wrst> yes and israel doesn't have nukes either...
[12:46] <chibihogoshino> we used to have one
[12:46] <cyberanger> well, isreal does, but our program was more advanced than the russians, closest is the M-29 Davy Crockett (which I saw at the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum)
[12:46] <wrst> a suitcase nuke chibihogoshino?
[12:47] <chibihogoshino> yeah
[12:47] <wrst> oh yes israel does cyberanger just funny how they always denied it
[12:47] <wrst> chibihogoshino: can we take a look ? :)
[12:47] <chibihogoshino> used to
[12:47]  * wrst waves hi to the CIA
[12:48]  * wrst voluntarily signs up for several government watch list
[12:48] <chibihogoshino> i think it was a texas instruments 5" screen
[12:48] <cyberanger> wrst: it's their policy, they don't deny it either
[12:48] <wrst> their for a while they did
[12:48] <wrst> been years maybe before your time on this planet
[12:48] <chibihogoshino> two 5" disc drives
[12:49] <chibihogoshino> no hard disc tho
[12:49] <cyberanger> they apply the same policy of neither confirming or denying most of thir black ops
[12:49] <chibihogoshino> the keyboard snapped on the front
[12:49] <cyberanger> such as targetting Hamas in the UAE
[12:50] <cyberanger> both the us and russia could have had suitcase nukes, but it was seen as pointless as a nuclear hand grenade
[12:51] <wrst> why throw a hand grenade when you can toss the sink at people
[12:51] <chibihogoshino> ahh.. this was it http://oldcomputers.net/compaqi.html
[12:53] <cyberanger> and we didn't miniturize quite that far, the russians were a bit behind us, given the timeline and our achivements, I doubt it didn't happen, at least until after the fall of the soviet union (and kgb, which most of the suitcase theroies say had control of the system, not the GRU, which would have made more sense)
[12:53] <cyberanger> chibihogoshino: cool
[12:54] <chibihogoshino> it was funny to think people carted them around with how small laptops are today
[12:54]  * cyberanger gives his netbook a hug, says I'm sorry I called you an outdated pos
[12:56]  * cyberanger hears the motherbord crush under the pressure of the hug D'Oh
[12:56] <chibihogoshino> heh
[12:57] <chibihogoshino> i always wanted one of these http://oldcomputers.net/compaqiii.html
[12:58] <cyberanger> MS-DOS 3.31
[12:58] <cyberanger> that's not bad
[12:58] <wrst> nice chibihogoshino
[12:59] <wrst> i love the pic of the guy getting on the plane
[13:00] <chibihogoshino> yeah .. id like to see some one try that now..
[13:00] <chibihogoshino> but.. this is my laptop ..
[13:05] <wrst> oh goodness the security people would have a hissy
[13:06] <cyberanger> well, TSA is Thousands Standing Around, idk, might go off smoothly
[13:09] <chibihogoshino> this thing is almost a baby lenovo http://oldcomputers.net/zeos-ppc.html
[13:11] <chibihogoshino> i wonder if they had power plugs for the old laptops on planes
[13:27] <cyberanger> chibihogoshino: better question, I wonder if they had power plugs on the older planes
[13:27] <cyberanger> the ones I fly never do
[13:27] <chibihogoshino> iv never flown on one ..
[13:28] <chibihogoshino> closest i got was afterburner at the arcade
[13:30] <cyberanger> never flown
[13:30] <cyberanger> you don't know what your missing
[13:31] <chibihogoshino> yeah.. i used to watch wings..
[13:31] <chibihogoshino> its like knowing a secret no one else knoes
[13:31] <chibihogoshino> knows
[13:34] <cyberanger> how to be groped by another man, without visiting a gay bar
[13:35] <cyberanger> "is that a gun or are you just happy to see me?"
[13:39] <chibihogoshino> heh
[13:40] <cyberanger> and of course, a strip search is just more fun when we do it web 2.0 style
[13:41] <chibihogoshino> they should put them on ustream .. make more money
[13:44] <cyberanger> idk which side of the debate your on, if that's your suggestion
[13:45] <cyberanger> hopefully your being scarstic
[13:45] <chibihogoshino> yeah
[13:45] <chibihogoshino> they need to stop
[13:46] <chibihogoshino> its proven it dosnt work .. so why spend the wasted time and money
[13:47] <chibihogoshino> just like gun control dosnt stop gun related crime
[13:50] <chibihogoshino> this is really cool.. http://www.chasertv.com/watch/video-wall-chat/
[13:50] <chibihogoshino> you can see live weather streams
[13:51] <chibihogoshino> i forgot about it.. but during summer i was watching people chase tornadoes
[14:21] <wrst> Xpistos: good morning
[14:21] <Xpistos> hey
[15:23] <Dan9186[MM]> ok so question about pipes
[15:25] <Dan9186[MM]> i've piped stuff to get down to a particular PID of a friend who uses my box to get to IRC, but he leaves it up every night and i want to kill it once a nice
[15:32] <Dan9186[MM]> once a nite*
[15:33] <Dan9186[MM]> so i'm able to get all the way down to the PID, but piping that to kill doesn't work
[15:33] <Dan9186[MM]> so how would you do just that?
[16:15] <cyberanger> Dan9186[MM]: why do you want to kill it every night, bandwidth?
[16:17] <Dan9186[MM]> rather than leave a screen session up and close his terminal he just leaves it connected, i just don't like having a tunnel left connected ALL the time like that
[16:18] <cyberanger> ah, so he's using a tunnel, not gnu screen
[16:18] <cyberanger> and a client on your machine
[16:18] <Dan9186[MM]> we're also likely not supposed to be doing it here at work, and leaving it up over night when there is less activity on the network makes it stand out more
[16:18] <Dan9186[MM]> yup
[16:19] <cyberanger> I think creating it as a bash script could help, instead of piping it to kill, you have a script that grabs the PID (as you've done) and that output defines a varible (in this example, I'll call it $IRCPID)
[16:19] <Dan9186[MM]> though Svpernova09 educated me in the folly of my ways on how i was trying to do it :)
[16:20] <cyberanger> so IRCPID=$(insert commands for getting the PID here, leave the parentheses)
[16:20] <cyberanger> kill $IRCPID
[16:20] <cyberanger> kill -9 $IRCPID
[16:20] <Dan9186[MM]> yup more or less what he set me towards :)
[16:20] <Dan9186[MM]> prolly more correct, but dont tell him that
[16:21] <cyberanger> well, I don't need to, you just did ;-)
[16:21] <Dan9186[MM]> yeah wanted to see how well he pays attention
[16:21] <Dan9186[MM]> obviously not so well
[16:21] <cyberanger> however the best way of all, is have him logout, or don't let him login
[16:22] <Dan9186[MM]> yeah i've provided some instruction and suggestions and that doesn't seem to happen
[16:23] <Dan9186[MM]> so before removing access i'm gonna try this
[16:23] <cyberanger> why's he logging into a work machine where it might not be allowed
[16:23] <Dan9186[MM]> he's not logging into a work machine
[16:23] <Dan9186[MM]> he's logging into a vm i have back home
[16:23] <cyberanger> oh, your machine, from work
[16:24] <Svpernova09> -.-
[16:24] <Dan9186[MM]> providing him access to irc even though they have it blocked
[16:24] <Dan9186[MM]> Svpernova09: hey how's it goin?
[16:24] <cyberanger> did they say why they block it?
[16:24] <Svpernova09> >.> just fine :_D
[16:25] <Dan9186[MM]> i'm sure they do, but i've not gone looking
[16:26] <Dan9186[MM]> i'm assuming it is something to do with accidentally putting out patient data, but neither he nor i have access to any patient data
[16:26] <cyberanger> healthcare
[16:27] <cyberanger> also explains them leaving open port 22
[16:27] <cyberanger> ssh and sftp
[16:27] <Dan9186[MM]> yup :)
[16:28] <cyberanger> why is he using your box, and I'd assume he's using pidgin portable or another usb client
[16:28] <cyberanger> I mean, instead of his
[16:32] <cyberanger> the way I see it, it's not worth the risk (afterall, you have a cell phone, use an IRC client on it)
[16:32] <Dan9186[MM]> i'll be nice and leave it at that he claims he can't hit his IP from work for some odd and unforseen reason
[16:32] <Dan9186[MM]> i'm already logged into it in the same fashion for my irc instance
[16:33] <Dan9186[MM]> he's using putty
[16:33] <cyberanger> his firewall, or he's done this before and got flagged
[16:33] <cyberanger> putty isn't an irc client
[16:33] <Dan9186[MM]> no but it gets you to irssi
[16:33] <cyberanger> I'm wondering why he's tunneling
[16:34] <cyberanger> as you can ban tunneling, and he can still use ssh and irc
[16:34] <Dan9186[MM]> he's not setting up an "actual" tunnel
[16:34] <Dan9186[MM]> he just sshs into my box and then runs irssi
[16:35] <Dan9186[MM]> i know that it's not for being flagged before
[16:35] <wrst> cyberanger: you care to look and see if you could do anything nasty on my network?
[16:35] <wrst> sometime cyberanger
[16:35] <wrst> :)
[16:35] <Dan9186[MM]> but past that, i've no clue why the world he "can't" access his network from here
[16:36] <Dan9186[MM]> his excuse was that he couldn't ping it, which i laughed at and told him it probably wouldn't respond to ping, but who knows with him
[16:39] <wrst> Dan9186[MM]: I'm not for sure but isn't there a way to set a timeout on ssh connections to your machine?
[16:42] <cyberanger> wrst: why look, I already know so
[16:43] <cyberanger> after all, you have the nastiest thing already on it
[16:43] <cyberanger> vist
[16:43] <cyberanger> a
[16:43] <wrst> ha ha oh no cyberanger its not just a repair job
[16:44] <cyberanger> wrst: timeout won't work, due to tcp keepalives
[16:44] <Dan9186[MM]> wrst: wouldn't that carry to my sessions too? i don't wana kick myself out :P
[16:44] <cyberanger> unless you set screen to detach after 300 seconds
[16:44] <wrst> ha ha Dan9186[MM] that's right and cyberanger is correct if you have putty set up sending keep alives that won't do it anyway
[16:44] <cyberanger> and a tmout value of 60
[16:45] <cyberanger> the tmout value counts idle of 60, closing the terminal
[16:45]  * Dan9186[MM] doesn't use putty
[16:45] <Dan9186[MM]> i actually run a real OS on my machine
[16:45] <cyberanger> and the screen idle value will detach it, after 300 seconds
[16:45] <cyberanger> (about 6 minutes unattended)
[16:46] <cyberanger> thus closing the ssh session
[16:46] <wrst> Dan9186[MM]: but saying you probalby have putty on the other machine set up that way
[16:46] <cyberanger> and Dan9186[MM] your client also would have the same bit of tcp keepalives
[16:46] <wrst> Dan9186[MM]: i take it you aren't referring to windows xp as a real OS?
[16:46] <cyberanger> wrst: if he is, I'm not
[16:47] <wrst> nipit
[16:47] <cyberanger> Dan9186[MM]: what is his irc client
[16:47] <wrst> hmmm
[16:47] <wrst> weird
[16:47] <Dan9186[MM]> true true, and probably for the better, i think he might be screwed if he had something other than winblows on his box
[16:47] <wrst> sorry for my typing carrying into another winder
[16:47] <cyberanger> Micro$uck Winblows, the next generation of last generation computing
[16:48] <Dan9186[MM]> started getting into *nix and put Ubuntu on every box i have about 6 months ago
[16:48] <Dan9186[MM]> including my work one
[16:48] <Dan9186[MM]> cyberanger: he uses irssi just cause that's what i already have installed on that vm
[16:49] <cyberanger> ah, so he is using gnu screen and irssi
[16:49] <cyberanger> he's just not logging out
[16:49] <cyberanger> I'd take away his ability to tunnel, set screen's idle to 300 and detach
[16:49] <Dan9186[MM]> he does winsucks->putty->terminal on my box->irssi
[16:49] <cyberanger> and set $TMOUT to 60
[16:50] <Dan9186[MM]> and then he leaves putty up for days on end
[16:50] <Dan9186[MM]> unless his connection dies here at work
[16:50] <cyberanger> if he's idle for 5 minutes, screen detaches, another minute, session closes
[16:50] <Dan9186[MM]> i can't even get him to use screen
[16:50] <Dan9186[MM]> it's like pointing two mirrors at each other for him
[16:50] <cyberanger> keepalives are useless for that, since the server is issueing the command
[16:50] <wrst> wow Dan9186[MM] you know typing: screen irssi is just so complicated :)
[16:51] <cyberanger> Dan9186[MM]: is irssi the only thing he uses?
[16:51] <Dan9186[MM]> yup
[16:51] <cyberanger> wrst: you left out screen -U
[16:51] <cyberanger> irssi likes utf-8
[16:51] <wrst> yes its a might ugly using putty without it
[16:51] <Dan9186[MM]> wrst: hey it never ceases to amaze me
[16:52] <cyberanger> Dan9186[MM]: ok, so tell him your helping him, by having irssi autostart
[16:52] <wrst> Dan9186[MM]: i understand why he cant connect to his network now
[16:52] <cyberanger> and really your autostarting screen, which is starting irssi
[16:52] <cyberanger> and code in the timeout metioned above
[16:53] <wrst> cyberanger: you know what would really help them out would be a shell account somewhere else to get the trouble off of Dan9186[MM]'s machine
[16:53] <cyberanger> since the issue isn't IRC, but ssh
[16:53] <cyberanger> wrst: yes, well, what'd really help him might also be not using irc at work
[16:53] <Dan9186[MM]> he has a silenceisdefeat account
[16:54] <cyberanger> or better yet, a better understanding of linux and ssh
[16:54] <wrst> well cyberanger thinking of getting Dan9186[MM] immediate releif :)
[16:57] <Dan9186[MM]> lol
[16:57] <cyberanger> if you kill the account, he might cause more issues, not less though
[16:57] <pace_t_zulu> wrst: libreoffice has replaced openoffice in natty
[16:57] <cyberanger> thus the balancing act
[16:58] <wrst> pace_t_zulu: i pulled that in last night, nice, just wish it had a better name
[16:58] <Dan9186[MM]> yeah i'm looking to not stir up a whole bunch of stuff as much as i am to let him to come to the conclusion he wants to either do it right or do something else
[17:01] <pace_t_zulu> wrst: at least it isn't oracle
[17:01] <pace_t_zulu> too bad virtualbox still is
[17:03] <Dan9186[MM]> lol
[17:09] <cyberanger> Dan9186[MM]: well, I can help you with an ideal solution in a few hours
[17:09] <cyberanger> gotta get ready for chattacon here
[17:09] <cyberanger> actually, I guess I can squeeze it in now, if you can Dan9186[MM]
[17:11] <cyberanger> Dan9186[MM]: are you wanting a method that forces him to use screen, and disconnect him when idle
[17:11] <cyberanger> without killing his irc client
[17:16] <Dan9186[MM]> that wouldn't be a terrible thing at all
[17:17] <Dan9186[MM]> i can't actually execute it at this very moment, but i'll take notes and can come back with questions later if that works for you
[17:17] <Dan9186[MM]> hell i wana know how to do that just for the sake of learning it anyways :)
[17:18] <wrst> pace_t_zulu: oh yes i think libreoffice is a step in a great direction i just don't like the name, but hey i didn't like the titan's uniforms but when they went to a super bowl i forgot all about that too
[17:25] <pace_t_zulu> wrst: wish they'd get back to the super bowl... and win it
[17:25] <wrst> yes pace_t_zulu probably not for a year or two will be interesting to see how the coaching/qb stuff all works out
[17:26] <cyberanger> Dan9186[MM]: well, is later better?
[17:26] <cyberanger> I can write a howto, tell you now (with a timecrunch) or tell (and if needed, guide) you later
[17:27] <cyberanger> there's three files in his home directory to tweak, so (as is allways a good idea) back them up
[17:28] <cyberanger> sudo su <hisaccount>
[17:28] <cyberanger> cp ~/.bashrc ~/.bashrc.backup
[17:28] <cyberanger> cp ~/.bash_profile ~/.bash_profile.backup
[17:28] <pace_t_zulu> wrst: you think we're going to draft, trade or sign a free agent qb?
[17:29] <cyberanger> cp ~/.bashrc ~/.bashrc.backup
[17:29] <cyberanger> cp ~/.screenrc ~/.screenrc.backup
[17:30] <cyberanger> ah, crud, I let time sneak up on me
[17:30] <cyberanger> Dan9186[MM]: when are usually around?
[17:30] <wrst> pace_t_zulu: probably a free agent maybe... wouldn't be surprised of any of the above but with fisher having 1 year left i think he will try to go veteran, maybe a trade, well actually probvably a trade now that i think about it
[17:30] <wrst> what do you think pace_t_zulu?
[17:30] <pace_t_zulu> wrst: i just don't know who is out there
[17:31] <pace_t_zulu> wrst: i think fisher is just a bit too conservative for today's NFL
[17:31] <cyberanger> Dan9186[MM]: I gotta run, I'll be online later, and can howto this also (which is actually ideal, others may find this useful)
[17:31] <pace_t_zulu> wrst: he will always opt for the safe option...
[17:36] <Xpistos> hey I need some help. I need to setup a gaming rig but I want to check if the hardware will support linux too
[17:36] <Xpistos> XFX ATI Radeon HD 4350
[17:37] <Xpistos> and do PCIe cards work in linux?
[17:38] <cyberanger> Xpistos: PCIe cards do
[17:39] <Xpistos> cool
[17:39] <Xpistos> all this just to play DCU Online... sad
[17:39] <cyberanger> and it appears (erring on the side of caution here) that that card has a linux catlyist driver
[17:40] <cyberanger> man, I'm gonna have to lock up my cable modem, if I cannot keep my focus on getting things ready, lol
[17:41] <cyberanger> Xpistos: chattacon is getting in motion, tonight I setup, tommorow is day one of a gaming marathon
[17:41] <Xpistos> Good Luck Brother!!!
[17:42] <cyberanger> it'll be a blast (COD Black Ops has enough virtual C4 to insure that ;-))
[17:43] <cyberanger> I've mirrored hardy and lucid's repos for the xubuntu rigs, so between linux and the consoles, oh boy :-D
[17:43] <Xpistos> You can play COD on Linux?
[17:44] <cyberanger> yes, COD4 modern warfare at least
[17:45] <cyberanger> with wine, and without punkbuster
[17:45] <cyberanger> but that's a console game for the confrence
[17:46] <cyberanger> licensing concerns
[17:53] <wrst> pace_t_zulu: keep hearing cobb and orton, but neither thrills me in the long run and agree too conservative
[18:10] <cyberanger> woot, I have sucessfully hijacked dns results for *archive.ubuntu.com and security.ubuntu.com (on my lan only, I should add)
[18:10] <cyberanger> this will come in handy
[18:13] <cyberanger> (normally this would be a bad thing, but knowledge is knowledge, issue is in application, and this case, it's the best it can be)
[18:26] <Dan9186[MM]> cyberanger: i'm around most days during work hours, and off and on in the evenings, otherwise all this is logging for me anyways so i can pull it up at any point in time
[18:27] <cyberanger> well, tonight I'll be around, after setting up
[18:27] <cyberanger> or tommorow
[18:27] <Dan9186[MM]> sounds good
[18:27] <cyberanger> esp in the morning and around lunch
[18:27] <Dan9186[MM]> just ping me and if i don't respond in 5 then i'm busy with the pr0n
[18:28] <cyberanger> I'll do that
[18:28] <cyberanger> and if your not on, expect a wordpress article
[18:28] <Dan9186[MM]> rofl
[18:28] <Dan9186[MM]> that'll always work
[18:28] <vychune> QUESTION: how do you know how many subnets to use in a network? o and hi
[18:29] <cyberanger> vychune: hi
[18:29] <vychune> hey cyber
[18:29] <cyberanger> vychune: can you explain it out further
[18:29] <cyberanger> it's a condidional question
[18:30] <vychune> oh
[18:30] <cyberanger> a home network will never have 250+ machines, so it usually gets a <IP_ADDRESS> subnet
[18:30] <vychune> like if you have a Class C IP for maybe 10 host
[18:30] <cyberanger> but you can shrink that further, or raise it
[18:30] <vychune> oh ok
[18:30] <cyberanger> class c, <IP_ADDRESS>
[18:31] <cyberanger> as long as you have enough non-conflicting ip addresses, that's what the subnet is based off of
[18:31] <vychune> ok i thought maybe custom subnets would come in to play
[18:31] <vychune> like <IP_ADDRESS>
[18:32] <cyberanger> well, they can, but we can afford to go large on a class c for a home network
[18:32] <cyberanger> now my network is fragmented like that a little
[18:32] <cyberanger> firewalls in the middle
[18:33] <cyberanger> if it's a conventional use, use it conventional, helps when things go wrong
[18:33] <cyberanger> my setup is unconventional
[18:33] <cyberanger> but I have an unconventional demand, requiring it
[18:34] <vychune> oh ok
[18:35] <vychune> thanks
[18:35] <cyberanger> <IP_ADDRESS> gives you 254 addresses (1-254, broadcast on 255)
[18:36] <cyberanger> even if a home network has 10 machines, most consumer routers will use an ip range of <IP_ADDRESS>-254 or <IP_ADDRESS>-254, and that subnet
[18:37] <cyberanger> you can adjust it, make a subnet smaller or larger, I could have a subnet with only one usable ip address, or one for a class a
[18:37] <cyberanger> that's what's nice about it being classless now
[18:38] <vychune> wow you really know your stuff
[18:38] <cyberanger> and yet I have my days of failure too
[18:40] <vychune> lol
[18:40] <cyberanger> but I really had a desire to learn about networking (one could say obsession) and that got me into linux
[18:40] <cyberanger> and I've branched out, but allways learning something new in linux, networking and more
[18:41] <vychune> thats awesome
[18:42] <cyberanger> I think you'll find similar stories for most here
[18:43] <vychune> most likely
[18:43] <cyberanger> the other story is usually hating windows, which is also true here ;-)
[18:43] <vychune> thats mine lol
[18:44] <cyberanger> hating windows was one reason (I had constraints for class though, so I used both linux and windows, got heavilly involved on the networking bit due to that)
[18:44] <cyberanger> but when I was able to ditch windows, I did so with a short chain and a boat anchor
[18:45] <vychune> again sounds like me
[18:45] <vychune> lol
[18:45] <vychune> a boat anchor really?
[18:46] <vychune> anyway well thanks for the advice and th story
[18:46] <vychune> i gonna go find a JOB! lol
[18:46] <vychune> see ya
[18:46] <vychune> thanks again
[18:47] <cyberanger> you and me both
[18:48] <cyberanger> but in the mean time I'll settle for a confrence
[18:48] <cyberanger> back to packing
[18:49] <cyberanger> I think a mouse has more focus than me
[23:55] <wrst> hello chris4585
[23:56] <chris4585> hey wrst
[23:59] <wrst> activating vista err
[23:59] <wrst> mercy


[21:35] <pleia2> akgraner: think you can take a look at the fridge calendar again to delete the old UW meeting times? (I will add the new ones)
[21:36] <akgraner> hmmm dang it  - I did that once already
[21:36] <akgraner> grrrrrr
[21:36]  * akgraner looks now
[21:38] <pleia2> just delete the current ones, I'll add the new ones from the UW calendar
[21:38] <akgraner> ok look now
[21:42] <pleia2> akgraner: thanks! and updated :)
[21:42] <akgraner> awesome
[21:42] <akgraner> I must have deleted it from one of my other calenders
[21:42] <akgraner> :-/