[00:07] <len-dt> falktx, I would imagine. It only matters where more than one kind of kernel may be used.
[00:08] <len-dt> Audio users have different needs than most. It is not uncommon to have more than one kernel in use. or more than one drive set up. Labeling of some sort is needed.
[00:10] <len-dt> On this machine I have Ubuntu, Ubuntu and Ubuntu on three drives...
[00:14] <len-dt> Three different versions, My bios can boot at any one of them. So three Grub partitions too.
[00:26] <falktx> I bet the other ubuntu based distros will want this too
[00:26] <falktx> having only 'Ubuntu' is kinda bad
[00:32] <micahg> Ubuntu is the platform
[00:33] <micahg> it's an Ubuntu kernel (at least the generic one)
[00:36] <len-dt> micahg, some of us use both a generic (on battery) and low latency (on power)
[00:40] <micahg> len-dt: I think that either way, it's really an Ubuntu kernel though
[00:41] <micahg> the login manager asks which DE you want, not grub
[00:41] <len-dt> Yes, but the user might like to know which one they are booting
[00:41] <micahg> so, it should say whether it's lowlatency or generic
[00:41] <len-dt> Yes.
[00:41] <len-dt> And probably only if both are present
[00:42] <len-dt> micahg, it would probably be ok to have Ubuntu and Ubuntu low latency
[00:42] <micahg> nah, I think it needs to be descriptive of what's installed, does it not do that now?
[00:42] <len-dt> Not if you have more than one type.
[00:43] <micahg> It should say Ubuntu, 3.5.0-18-generic; and Ubuntu, 3.5.0-18-lowlatency
[00:44] <len-dt> That would be ok, but I think "they"  are trying to get away from scarey looking startups
[00:44] <len-dt> "they" being whoever is setting up GRUB
[00:45] <micahg> well, grub isn't shown by default
[00:45] <micahg> you have to hold down shift or something
[00:46] <len-dt> I think if we want it changed, we need to come up with a patch that leaves Ubuntu generic as is
[00:46] <len-dt> Some do and some don't seem to. My wife's netbook always shows it
[00:46] <len-dt> She has 12.04 vanilla
[00:47] <len-dt> This machine shows it (12.10) but my netbook doesn't
[00:48] <micahg> yes, but it should show up in the grub list as lowlatency if grub is shown
[00:48] <micahg> *already show up
[00:48] <len-dt> This one just shows Ubuntu
[00:48] <len-dt> I agree the word low latency would be good
[00:50] <micahg> yes, but in the version string it should show the flavor of the kernel
[00:50] <len-dt> OK
[00:50] <micahg> the structure is: platform, version-flavor
[00:51] <len-dt> Sounds good, but right now it isn't
[00:51] <micahg> ah, yes, so that's a bug then
[00:51] <len-dt> I think the back kernels are though
[00:51] <micahg> on 12.04?
[00:51] <len-dt> I thought it had just been changed for 12.10
[00:51] <len-dt> 12.10
[00:52] <len-dt> 12.04 shows the whole thing
[00:53] <micahg> Ubuntu 12.10, kernel 3.5.0-18-generic on my regular system
[00:53] <len-dt> Interesting
[00:53] <micahg> what does /boot/grub/menu.lst show?
[00:54]  * micahg is also using the old grub though
[00:54] <len-dt> that file is not here
[00:54] <micahg> ok, check /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[00:56] <len-dt> Where do I look?
[00:56] <micahg> towards the end
[00:57] <micahg> grep menuentry /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[01:00] <len-dt> The ones under Advanced options for Ubuntu look good.
[01:02] <len-dt> I'm going to reboot for a minute
[01:09] <len-dt> micahg, things have changed. There is only one kernel on this drive. But it shows on the submenu.
[01:09] <micahg> hrm, I'm not sure how that's supposed to work
[01:10] <len-dt> So there is a "Ubuntu" entry that seems to point to the latest one on the drive. Then there is a submenu with the same kernel with full name and a second rescue entry.
[01:10] <len-dt> It looks like as much as can be is hidden in sub menus.
[01:11] <len-dt> We will have to document it a bit I think for those who want to use two kernel versions
[01:12] <len-dt> as an aside, 10.10 was picked up but not my 12.04 drive.
[01:12] <len-dt> I think it was mounted playing music during install :)
[02:31] <Hypnotoad> len-dt: Yes, "ubuntu" was noticed by myself as well and counted as unacceptable and fixed. :P
[02:32] <Hypnotoad> It is "normal" to have it like that.
[02:33] <len-dt> if uninformative
[02:33] <len-dt> I think it does make sense for the vanilla out of the box experience... maybe not for Studio
[04:10] <len-dt> ailo, another problem with volti... when I try it with my D66 it wants to control all my DACs with the volume control in the tray. And it locks them all to what ever the tray volume is set to.
[04:11] <len-dt> So I can't even turn one of them down with mudita24 for example.
[04:12] <ailo> len-dt: That's not the case for me
[04:13] <len-dt> Last change was made in dec 2010.
[04:13] <len-dt> gotta go. Yf needs help with schoolwork.
[04:14] <len-dt> ailo,  may be you ADCs it locks. It locked those on me when I first started it.
[04:17] <ailo> len-dt: Doesn't lock anything for me. the master volume isn't doing anything. But, while mudita24 receives changes to volumes from alsa, volti only seems to look up those during startup, so if I change a volume in mudita24, it won't change in volti
[04:18] <ailo> I never actually tried any of the controls before. I guess I was mostly interested in that it lived in the systray. Yeah, it's not very mature
[04:26] <ailo> len-dt: Perhaps we should instead add a starter for a generic alsa mixer in the volume tray?
[04:27] <ailo> That would improve the chance for people with non standard cards to get their audio working
[05:20] <astraljava> ailo: Backlog is TL;DR, why won't the Pulse mixer do? I'm still partial to getting it more wide-spread, and as it's the way vanilla wants to go, it'd be easier to follow. At least I'd like to get the issues fixed in PA, rather than switch back to alsa.
[05:23] <ailo> astraljava: No ones talking about switching back to Alsa. Just adding asla controls to the PA area
[05:24] <ailo> astraljava: Yes, it would be nice if the PA mixer also had all of the Alsa HW controls :)
[05:25] <astraljava> But you can change what controls the mixer actually affects, so at least on Xfce, you can just add a new mixer applet, and have it control alsa instead. Though I haven't tested, but in theory, this should work, no?
[05:26] <ailo> astraljava: I'm not on XFCE right now, but I believe the mixer started from the volume applet is pavucontrol
[05:26] <astraljava> Adding two control areas in the volume tray just feels messy to me, but maybe that's just me. :)
[05:26] <ailo> Well, it is messy already
[05:27] <astraljava> Yes it is.
[05:27] <astraljava> Yes it is.
[05:27] <ailo> Clear naming would help
[05:27] <astraljava> *smirk*
[05:27] <astraljava> Hmm... will have to play tonight.
[05:31] <astraljava> ailo: Ok, I only now read up on it on mailing list. I'll spend more time on investigating before giving further (lacking) opinions on the matter. :)
[05:40] <ailo> astraljava: No worries. I often miss things because of the same reason. Not easy keeping track of everything being said
[05:40] <ailo> But, if we document everything we want to do in blueprints, that will serve as a good reference point, I think
[05:58] <astraljava> True dat.
[09:28] <ailo> I'm going to the Ubuntu Developer Summit
[09:28] <ailo> So, if anyone has any tips or thoughts, just let me know
[09:28] <ailo> It's next week
[10:07] <knome> ailo, ooh!
[10:07] <knome> ailo, we should meet there then
[10:07] <ailo> knome: Absolutely
[10:08] <ailo> I haven't yet had the chance to look at where, when and how, other than it's in Copenhagen. I'll be staying with my uncle in Malmö hopefulle
[10:08] <astraljava> ailo: Please run the US flavor presentation, then! :)
[10:09] <knome> ailo, heh :)
[10:09] <ailo> astraljava: I was afraid someone would suggest something like that
[10:09] <knome> ailo, we will be in copenhagen most of the day on friday too with pleia2, maybe you want to join us then too :)
[10:09] <astraljava> *smirk*
[10:10] <ailo> knome: I'll probably just be there during the three days
[10:11] <knome> three?
[10:11] <knome> ailo, uds is four days ;)
[10:11] <ailo> Oh, well, four than :)
[10:15] <ailo> knome: I'll see about Friday. I won't know until we get there :)
[10:16] <knome> ailo, hehe. yeah, let's work on the details later
[10:16] <ailo> Just called my uncle. He was sober, and willing to let me stay, so no I only need to book a train ticket
[10:24] <knome> eh:)
[10:29] <astraljava> That's the weirdest looking smiley I've ever seen. What is it supposed depict?
[10:34] <knome> :P
[10:34] <knome> a funny hat?
[10:34] <astraljava> Is it a man wearing a cap, with a cat laying on top of that?
[10:35] <knome> maybe
[10:35] <astraljava> Or maybe pacman is about to eat the man wearing a cap.
[10:44] <knome> ;)
[13:15] <len-dt> astraljava, we don't (so far as I know) want to replace the tray mix app. pavucontrol is probably the best one.
[13:18] <drupin> hey smartboyhw how ya buddy
[13:18] <smartboyhw> Hi drupin
[13:18] <len-dt> however there are getting to be more USB mutitrack Audio IFs (4 and 8 and more tracks) that work with Linux and it would be nice to have a good ALSA mixer that people could use with them when using jackd.
[13:18] <drupin> nice to see you master
[13:18] <smartboyhw> ailo, youa re sure gonna do that Ubuntu Studio UDS talk:P
[13:20] <smartboyhw> Ah ailo-w actually:P
[13:30] <astraljava> len-dt: Thanks, yeah I got my confusion sorted with ailo already. :)
[13:30]  * smartboyhw finds today's logs more difficult to consume than yesterday:D
[13:30] <drupin> which log master
[13:31] <smartboyhw> drupin, 1. stop calling me as master and 2. The channel logs which you can find in irclogs.ubuntu.com
[13:31] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: I haven't come that far yet, but if it serves a purpose, I will, since from what I understand, I will be the only participant from Ubuntu Studio
[13:31] <ailo-w> I'll be meeting the kernel team about -lowlatency
[13:31] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, wait aren't scott-work attending?
[13:31] <ailo-w> And have the chance to hang out with the guy(s) from Xubuntu, etc
[13:31] <drupin> ok
[13:32] <astraljava> smartboyhw: I believe he said he couldn't take that trip this time.
[13:32] <smartboyhw> astraljava, ah...... ailo-w good that you are attending, if not there will be NOBODY:D
[13:32] <astraljava> smartboyhw: It's fine, it's not mandatory.
[13:32] <smartboyhw> astraljava, :D
[13:34] <ailo-w> I'm taking the chance, as it's only about 300km from here
[13:34] <smartboyhw> Hey scott-work ailo-w will be attending UDS I think assign him to the Ubuntu studio session on UDS:P
[13:34] <drupin> ohh god so many channels in log
[13:34] <scott-work> morning smartboyhw
[13:34] <scott-work> len-dt: good email about ugprades, panels, etc
[13:34] <ailo-w> scott-work: morning
[13:35] <scott-work> morning ailo-w
[13:35] <scott-work> ailo-w: didn't you have a wiki link in your email about brainstorming for R?
[13:35] <scott-work> i coldn't find it
[13:35] <scott-work> although i really thought i had seen one
[13:35] <smartboyhw> scott-work, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PreliminaryBlueprintsDraft1304
[13:35] <scott-work> len-dt: your email touches on several points that i had thought about and is what i was suggesting about mission statement, etc
[13:36] <ailo-w> scott-work: I'm kind in the middle of cleaning up the wiki. There is a link for it now in UbuntuStudio Team Resources page
[13:36] <scott-work> len-dt: i think we also need to discuss and define clearly what the purpose of the releases
[13:36] <scott-work> len-dt: i.e. lts->lts are production machines and everything between is just for play
[13:37] <scott-work> which means we may choose NOT to support lts->whatever or whatever->lts for upgrades, but we WILL support (somehow) lts->lts upgrades, maybe not
[13:37] <ailo-w> scott-work: Old pages are put under "Old Pages" in this page, temporarily https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamResources
[13:37] <scott-work> ailo-w: i had a 'deprecated pages' somewhere also
[13:37] <smartboyhw> ailo, good page
[13:37] <scott-work> just for the same purpose, we probably should consolidate them
[13:38] <ailo-w> scott-work: There is one in the community wiki, but haven't seen one in the regular wiki
[13:38] <scott-work> ailo-w: is there any talk about when we should sort through the suggestions and pick/prioritize?
[13:38] <scott-work> ailo-w: ah! i believe you are right
[13:38] <smartboyhw> scott-work, on the "start meeting " part in your mail I think the best time should be around this time or so (aka 13:30 UTC to 15:00 UTC since almost everyone is here:P)
[13:40] <ailo-w> scott-work: Now that you're back, I think you should handle that. But, one important thing I will be doing this cycle is to document all the steps during the development process. So, I'd appreciate if we could go through many of the things you and others do during next cycle
[13:40] <smartboyhw> scott-work, I wonder about something: Can we revive https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReportingPage back ?
[13:40] <ailo-w> scott-work: Like, when and how the blueprints should be listed
[13:45] <ailo-w> scott-work: Yea, so, I am attending UDS, as it's close to my home terf
[13:46] <smartboyhw> Yeah when UDS goes to Asia I will attend:P
[13:46] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, you live in Europe right?
[13:46] <ailo-w> scott-work: Never mind the spelling :). You were there last year, correct?
[13:46] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: Sweden, yes
[13:47] <ailo-w> scott-work: Or, this year even? Anyway, I just wanted to let you know, and if you have any suggestions, just let me know
[13:47] <knome> ailo-w, blueprints should be filed under correct names and then be proposed to the "track leads" so they can schedule them
[13:47] <ailo-w> knome: Yeah. I think scott-work will do that. So far, we're just brainstorming, and collecting ideas.
[13:48] <knome> ailo-w, oh, ok.
[13:48]  * smartboyhw is thinking of what to add to the blueprint suggestions:D
[13:48] <ailo-w> scott-work: I'm meeting up with the kernel team to discuss -lowlatency. A new source tree for Precise is already done. I will be testing it this afternoon.
[13:49] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, didn't you already take over the maintenance of precise -lowlatency ?
[13:49] <ailo-w> scott-work: We'll be going through the specifics of uploading the source, etc. So, by the end of UDS, I'll probably have that item in place.
[13:50] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: Nope, but we were discussing it.
[13:50] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, oh.....I thought you already did:P
[13:50] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: The kernel for Precise hasn't been updated for a few months now, but will be soon :)
[13:51] <ailo-w> Something like 100+ bug fixes since then
[13:51] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, yeah saw it in kernel.ubuntu.com/git for the ubuntu-precise-lowlatency.git by apw:D
[13:53] <ailo-w> Ok, busy day. Going home. bbs
[14:04] <len-dt> scott-work, our support for graphics needs some work. We may have to work with xfce devs to get what we need.
[14:05] <len-dt> the display settings app needs to have color support as well as dual monitor support
[14:06] <len-dt> in some ways it may be easier to use a gnome wm with the xfce panels.
[14:08] <len-dt> But I should at least play with some of this stuff as is. I think getting rid of thunar as a desktop would be a good idea though.
[14:08]  * len-dt has a wandering mind this morning.
[14:08] <smartboyhw> len-dt, LOL
[14:09] <len-dt> we do need to be able to have the right ICC file loaded at login though
[14:10] <len-dt> The user should not have to write a script to do so.
[14:10] <smartboyhw> len-dt, if the user has to write a script they will not use Ubuntu Studio, so let's forget about that:P
[14:11] <len-dt> Having xfce display settings able to do dual monitors would be nice too... as it saves the settings from session to session.
[14:11] <len-dt> smartboyhw, that is why we need to do it for them and have a gui to set it up
[14:11] <smartboyhw> :D
[14:12] <len-dt> I am just not sure if we should have one big control app to do audio/graphics/video set up or smaller applets for each
[14:13] <len-dt> I think smaller applets so the right one can be part of the associated meta.
[14:13] <len-dt> scott-work, I think we need to put the same energy into our other workflows as we have to audio
[14:14]  * len-dt is off to work.
[14:14] <len-dt> bye all
[14:14] <smartboyhw> len-dt, bye
[14:28] <scott-work> ailo: i was at the last uds, yes
[14:33] <scott-work> ailo: i don't mind creating and filing the blueprints
[14:33] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i would like to get back to the reporting, yes
[14:33] <smartboyhw> scott-work, yeah
[14:33] <scott-work> ailo: good news about the kernel, that is awesome actually
[14:34] <scott-work> len-dt: i really thought there was an icc manager, and i thought we included it, although i suppose it might be a command line application
[14:36] <scott-work> len-dt: agreed about the other workflows and giving it thought, i am hoping to translate my experience with video and graphics into an improved workflow for each, not great perhaps, but certainly better, although i probably will not be able to help much with photography or publishing at this point
[14:37] <ailo> scott-work: Actually, I would like to do the blueprints myself, if it's ok with you? Now that I've started the process. Deadline at around feature freeze, right?
[14:37] <scott-work> ailo: oh sure, that would be awesome
[14:37] <smartboyhw> ailo, er shouldn't that be the project lead's job?
[14:37] <smartboyhw> Anyway scott-work says yes
[14:37] <smartboyhw> I don't think the deadline is feature freeze though
[14:38] <smartboyhw> ailo, better to ask skaet on #ubuntu-release
[14:38] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i would expect that we, as a group, will decide on what we want to do, so getting the blueprints together is more of a technicality at that point
[14:38] <scott-work> but i really want us to focus on making reasonable goals this cycle
[14:38] <ailo> smartboyhw: Well, let me rephrase. Feature Definition Freeze
[14:39] <ailo> It's Nov 22
[14:39] <smartboyhw> scott-work, at the moment I think the work items are great, just that we need to decide who should work on it sicne last cycle we got a lot of POSTPONED items (except len-dt )
[14:39] <smartboyhw> ailo, ah OK now I understand:P
[14:39] <scott-work> a good process might be to aggregate the list, make a first pass at what we think would be good, have people commit to tasks, and then re-evaluate the list per commitments
[14:40] <scott-work> if we don't have commitments for tasks then we might drop those for this cycle
[14:40] <ailo> I think everyone will do what they know and like to do, and we just make sure not two people are doing the same work twice
[14:40] <smartboyhw> scott-work, since you wanted to start meetings: Maybe we should plan a meeting to approve those workitems on the blueprints and that who should do it
[14:41] <scott-work> smartboyhw: that is a good idea
[14:41] <smartboyhw> :D
[14:41] <scott-work> although i am not sure that during the week, at least at this current time, is good for me to attend meetings, much less lead them
[14:41] <ailo> Somewhere around one week before feature definition freeze
[14:41] <smartboyhw> scott-work, maybe ailo should lead then
[14:42] <scott-work> i cannot commit to contiguous uninterrupted time at any point throughout the work day
[14:45] <smartboyhw> ailo, look at this
 smartboyhw,  blueprints should be registered and accepted prior to the start of UDS if they need to be discussed there.   Otherwise, blueprints are accepted until planning freeze.
 oops... s/planning freeze/feature definition freeze/
[14:45] <smartboyhw> ailo, so you are correct
[14:46] <scott-work> i've got to do some work for a bit
[14:46] <smartboyhw> bye scott-work
[14:46] <ailo> smartboyhw: We were talking about using social channels for news reporting. Anything Ubuntu Studio related, really. There are channels called Ubuntu Studio on facebook, and g+
[14:47] <ailo> smartboyhw: Maybe you would like to be a part of generating the content?
[14:47] <smartboyhw> ailo, for g+
[14:47] <smartboyhw> I don't have facebook but I do have g_
[14:47] <smartboyhw> *g+
[14:47] <smartboyhw> ailo, I can help:D
[14:48] <ailo> smartboyhw: Not from your own account. Scott is the admin of those accounts. But someone needs to produce the content too
[14:48] <smartboyhw> ailo, I can
[14:48] <smartboyhw> I do write things on 2buntu.com (aka the unofficial Ask Ubuntu guys blog)
[14:49] <ailo> Those would be official Ubuntu Studio channels, but from my point of view, and I'm sure I'm not alone, the content could be quite liberal, as long as it's somehow related to Ubuntu Studio and linux multimedia
[14:49] <smartboyhw> So I have some experience
[14:49] <smartboyhw> ailo, :D
[14:49] <ailo> smartboyhw: Ok, well. That is one of the blueprint items we need to go through during this cycle anyway
[14:50] <smartboyhw> ailo, :D
[14:55] <smartboyhw> ailo, for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PostRelease you said "Update topics on ubuntustudio IRC channels" that is real difficult, only some people have op rights (I don't think you have too)
[15:05] <ailo> smartboyhw: Optimally it would fall under one persons responsibilities to do those things
[15:06] <ailo> smartboyhw: It's like playing football. If everyone is chasing the ball, who is guarding the goal?
[15:06] <ailo> smartboyhw: Everyone does their bit, to which they are assigned. Someone should with the proper rights handles the irc channels
[15:07] <ailo> smartboyhw: I know it is not always like that, as you have seen.
[15:07] <ailo> smartboyhw: But, in general, it is IMO the only sane approach to team work
[15:08] <ailo> smartboyhw: You are young, ambitious, and willing to participate
[15:09] <ailo> smartboyhw: My advice to you is to find work items that are suitable for you. Either ones that already exist, or you suggest new ones, and then focus on them
[15:09] <smartboyhw> ailo, ok.....Just wonder who CAN do the job.....
[15:10] <ailo> smartboyhw: Do what job?
[15:10] <smartboyhw> ailo, the "change the topic of IRC channels"
[15:11] <ailo> smartboyhw: A few people. I haven't kept track of that.
[15:11] <holstein> smartboyhw: i can change the topic in #ubuntustudio
[15:11] <smartboyhw> ailo, give it to holstein then
[15:11] <holstein> smartboyhw: just ping me or whatever.. this is the first cycle i have been able to, and forgot :)
[15:11] <smartboyhw> holstein, LOL
[15:11] <holstein> i used to ping someone and ask
[15:12] <smartboyhw> bye ailo holstein scott-work
[15:12] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i think holstein, astraljava , and myself can change the IRC topic now, in both channels
[15:12] <scott-work> by smartboyhw
[15:12] <holstein> smartboyhw: i wouldnt worry about the topic here too much
[15:12] <smartboyhw> gotcha sleep worrying about the Open Week session tmr:P
[15:12] <holstein> smartboyhw: o/
[15:12] <smartboyhw> ailo, prepare for your session on 17:30 UTC:P
[15:13] <ailo> smartboyhw: Don't worry about me :)
[15:13] <ailo> smartboyhw: Good luck tomorrow
[15:13] <smartboyhw> ailo, OK. Just that you need to prepare (as told by many people who have done the sessions before). Bye
[18:05] <ailo> Seems like I messed up the IRC session
[18:05] <ailo> Well, one learns
[18:06] <knome> hehe:)
[19:00] <scott-work> ailo: if you are going to UDS-R, would you mind doing a very short presentation on where ubuntu studio is going?
[19:05] <ailo> scott-work: No problem. I already mailed jorge
[19:08] <ailo> scott-work: It's only something like 5 mins, right?
[19:13] <scott-work> ailo: cool. i think it might even be less than that. we were supposed to do 2.5 minutes last time
[19:36] <ailo> scott-work: Yeah, that's almost a little comical
[19:37] <ailo> scott-work: I can do some kind of draft during the coming couple of days, and present it to you
[19:37] <ailo> In case you have ideas and opinions
[19:38] <scott-work> ailo: to be honest, i think this fits in nicely with deriving a roadmap for the next few cycle
[19:42] <ailo> scott-work: That is something that I wouldn't mind discussing actually
[19:43] <ailo> scott-work: A roadmap for the future that is
[19:44] <ailo> scott-work: One of my main concersn at the moment is how do we get more activity into Ubuntu Studio development. Especially how do we integrate people who are willing to help, but not experienced in any of the sort of tasks we do, plus the structure of the whole things.
[19:46] <scott-work> like someone mentioned in the blueprint planning page, having things spelled out (in blueprints, roadmaps, documentation) will probably lower the threshold for involvement and encourage more people to help....hopefully
[19:46] <ailo> scott-work: So, what I see as an answer to that problem is of course communicating outwards, and clearly so, that we need help, and that anyone can help. But, before we can do that.
[19:46] <ailo> ..we need docs, right
[19:46] <ailo> So, that is my main priority for this cycle
[19:47] <scott-work> so this cycle could be setting documentation for dev and testing as main priorities
[19:47] <scott-work> oh, hehe, you typed the same basically :P
[19:47] <ailo> :)
[19:50] <ailo> scott-work: About workflow applications. That is a bit different I think. For that, you need software developer(s). If you can find someone that is willing to do the coding, we already have willing testers, and people in the community who can provide good feedback
[19:51] <ailo> scott-work: Another thing, which I adressed a bit during the Open Week IRC chat, is we should become better att communicating upstream about bugs and issues
[19:52] <ailo> On that part, we do need docs for people who don't know how that all connects
[19:52] <ailo> And, we need people willing to spend time on it too
[19:53] <ailo> For one thing, we have a pretty serious bug with qjackctl + jackdbus, which is existing on both 12.04 and 12.10
[19:53] <ailo> That kind of thing we should be able to solve, one way or another.
[19:54] <ailo> Well, those kind of bugs don't happen that often, but when they do, it would be nice if we could squash them
[19:55] <scott-work> ailo: very true about the bugs
[19:57] <scott-work> ailo: for the work flow applications, i feel very strongly about that we should develop a specification for this, especially if non-ubuntu studio developers are going to work on it
[19:57] <scott-work> i would be most happy to help in this regard
[19:57] <ailo> scott-work: Sounds like a good idea to me
[19:57] <scott-work> i should note that i am beginning to work on an animation that would show how i think a few things could work that users would appreciate
[19:58] <ailo> That should be most helpful in deed
[19:58] <scott-work> this is "pie in the sky" ideas. not everyone will agree with them and some might not be practical to develop
[19:58] <scott-work> BUT, it will give an indication of how things _could_ change, and this might inspire someone as well :)
[20:00] <ailo> I've done some UI developing, and even if I get something done which I'm pleased with, if I start again from scratch, it usually ends up being a bit different and improved each time
[20:00] <ailo> But, you gotta start somewhere
[20:01] <ailo> Impossible to plan things like that in advance. Each time you try it in practice, your idea of it changes
[20:02] <ailo> scott-work: Like Eisenhower said, "Plans are worthless, but planning is everything"
[20:04] <ailo> scott-work: Would you mind if I add your blueprint suggestions to the blueprint draft wiki page? I wouldn't mind just going through everything, just to keep track of things
[20:05] <scott-work> ailo: absolutely, i'll be added some of my other things to it tonight or tomorrow
[20:06]  * scott-work printed the wiki and the email thread and has correlated both and made notes of things to add
[20:08] <ailo> scott-work: I won't do anything just now, but sometime tomorrow morning (just about to hit the hay sack). When America sleeps, and Europeans are silently working (for some strange reason the channels are awefully quite during European work hours)
[20:09] <scott-work> hehe, i won't be doing anything for several hours at the soonest
[20:09] <ailo> I don't know if that means Europeans are actually busy slaving, or if they're just very asocial sort of people
[20:09] <scott-work> but i am going home early, it's been quite a day today at work
[20:09] <scott-work> i might log in to irc later tonight though


[00:39] <AliTabuger7> anyone here?
[08:35] <Flannel> Well, I just miss all the conversations now don't I.
[08:37] <shahriar86> what ?
[08:37] <Flannel> Nothing
[08:37] <shahriar86> :)
[08:38] <shahriar86> actually the conversation happens late night over here
[08:54] <shahriar86> hi do anyone have any blog posts regarding open source or free software
[08:55] <shahriar86> it will also help if anyone have any writeup importance of Open source against piracy
[16:12] <AliTabuger7> Hi shahriar, are you still looking for those blog posts?
[19:05] <AliTabuger7> Anyone here?
[19:38] <pep> evening
[19:38] <AliTabuger7> Hello pep!
[19:39] <pep> Hey, I'm jsut writing an email
[19:41] <pep> AliTabuger7: I though you wanted to use your own machine for testing and developing the drupal theme, etc.. ?
[19:42] <AliTabuger7> I don't really care that much.
[19:42] <pep> Sorry I'm a little slow at replying to emails and not so much online, been handing in some university work lately...
[19:43] <pep> About the server issues, the problem is that I have little access to Houbsi's server actually :/
[19:43] <pep> but I'll finish the e-mail..
[19:43] <AliTabuger7> Its ok. I don't know if you've looked at the test site, but I've managed to get some things done without the access.
[19:44] <pep> I'm looking at ti
[19:44] <pep> it*
[19:55] <AliTabuger7> don't worry about the upload permission error, it is fixed, but not the way it probably should be.
[19:56] <pep> nah, this is p**** me off to be honest
[19:56] <AliTabuger7> actually what should be done is maybe a directory should be created in /files called "temp" so temporary uploads could go into "/files/temp". I think temp files should have their own directory, not use the "/files" directory they are currently using. Other than that, it probably doesn't matter what directory they use.
[19:57] <pep> The thing is that there is a conflict with the owners of the other site hosted on the same ftp account
[19:57] <pep> best is to use another server imo
[19:59] <AliTabuger7> Do you really want a domain name? I'm at a university campus that gives me a constant 1mbps up and 1mbps down. They certainly wouldn't mind me letting you guys run a TEST server, that wouldn't use nearly that much. It's crazy. I actually have like a 3ms ping to google. Anyway, you'd have to enter the IP of my ubuntu computer, which is always on.
[20:01] <pep> not a problem imo
[20:01] <AliTabuger7> I forgot to mention that my computer has it's own dedicated/semi-static (static dhcp) ip
[20:01] <pep> as I said before that's a perfectly viable option for me
[20:15] <AliTabuger7> hubuntu has already began putting a test server up on his computer, which actually has a domain name. He hasn't quite got ftp working yet
[20:33] <pep> AliTabuger7: I see, well if you have a university connection with the ping you say and a static dhcp ip, it's maybe best to set it up on your computer.. do as you wish :)
[20:34] <AliTabuger7> Ok. I may not be able to get it done until much later, if not tomorrow
[22:53] <AliTabuger7> Hi everybody!


[05:04] <Ticked> Please someone tell me they can tell me how to make a problem with my linux system stop I am using gnome desktop 3.4.2 debian wheezy stable I just finished a fresh install and install some of the apps I play around with and I logged out and the back into gnome 3 and the mouse pointer is shaped like cross hairs and is taking screenshots of everything I click and I am about to flip my lid and go nuts over this
[06:35] <RJ45> palimpsest (AKA gnome-disk-utility) benchmarks using both 'Mb' and 'MB', both conveying the same number, check for yourself, I just gotta know, which is it?, Megabits, or MegaBytes? o.O
[06:36] <RJ45> the axis on the chart says 'MB', but the number outputs below say 'Mb'
[06:41] <RJ45> apparently a conformed bug about 3 months shy of 2 years ago;  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-disk-utility/+bug/919606
[06:44] <RJ45> I really need to know which it is, the results I'm seeing are suggestive of it being MegaBytes/s
[06:45] <RJ45> (especially when compared with a real live transfer of files)
[07:26] <darkxst> RJ45, sounds like an upstream bug
[07:27] <darkxst> I would think its actually MB/s
[07:29] <RJ45> darkxst: lol, 'upstream bug', isn't everything linux just one big 'upstream bug'? :P
[07:29] <darkxst> RJ45, nope, lots of bugs are caused by Ubuntu patches/packaging
[07:31] <RJ45> it's all just repos derived from repos, derived from other repos, it's repos all the way down I say! :P
[07:32] <darkxst> upstream doesnt have repos!
[07:32] <RJ45> aaanyways, yeah, from my own tests, I's suspect it to be MB/s.
[07:34] <darkxst> RJ45, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=675686
[07:34] <RJ45> darkxst: Hundreds of PPAs -> Debian .debs -> Ubuntu .debs
[07:35] <darkxst> RJ45, what does that have to do with upstream?
[07:35] <RJ45> *shrugs*
[09:15] <starnix> Hello people!
[09:16] <starnix> out of curiosity, what difference is ubuntugnome, if I installed ubuntu and then gnome-desktop?


[02:17] <jo-erlend> nice! Desktopcouch works again :)
[08:30] <JamesTait> Morning all!
[09:00] <rye> mornings!
[09:40] <rye> Directory browsing is broken at the moment on the web ui, we are aware of this issue
[09:41] <rye> same on edge
[10:41] <j0nr_> hey ho... does copying files into UbuntuOne directory via commandline (i.e. cp) work?
[10:41] <j0nr_> or does it have to be via GUI?
[10:48] <karni> j0nr: It does work. U1 does not care if you paste it with mouse or cp
[10:53] <j0nr> cool
[10:54] <ralsina> morning!
[10:59] <j0nr> can I start the daemon remotely via ssh? if I try u1sdtool --start it looks like it is erroring about X11...
[11:00] <j0nr> does this mean it is running?:
[11:00] <j0nr> ps aux | grep ubuntu
[11:00] <j0nr> jonr      1715  1.0  3.6<PHONE_NUMBER>4 ?        Sl   Sep20   9:04 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/ubuntuone-client/ubuntuone-syncdaemon
[11:18] <karni> j0nr: you're talking about headless ubuntuone? That's a very different question.
[11:18] <karni> I'm not sure what's are the possibilities for headless u1.
[11:27] <j0nr> karni: not headless, just accessing my home computer remotely, so only have ssh access
[11:29] <karni> j0nr: I see
[12:36] <gatox> ralsina, ping
[12:36] <ralsina> gatox: pong
[12:36] <gatox> ralsina, good morning, how are you?
[12:36] <ralsina> gatox: fine, but with my kid at home because he was sick last night, so I don't know how much I will be able to work
[12:36] <gatox> ralsina, oops.... ok....
[12:37] <gatox> ralsina, i'm fighting with the .ico........ i tested several things... but, the problem seems to be with png2ico or windows... because the .ico file looks ugly, is not related to u1
[12:37] <ralsina> ok, we can build the ico using something else, surely
[12:37] <gatox> ralsina, i'm trying to generate the ico with something else to test if the problem is in the program or in windows
[12:37] <ralsina> we could even try just putting one lare icon in the .ico
[12:37] <ralsina> large icon
[12:38] <gatox> ralsina, yes, because the program will scale it....
[12:38] <ralsina> right
[12:38] <ralsina> just put a 128x128 and see what happens
[12:38] <gatox> ralsina, yep
[12:40] <gatox> ralsina, looks ugly...... let me try with another program
[12:40] <ralsina> ok
[12:42] <gatox> ralsina, i was able to generate a .ico that looks really nice with gimp... i will try to put it in the installer now and look how it is resized
[12:43] <ralsina> cool
[12:50] <ralsina> gatox, dobey, alecu: standup in 10'
[12:50] <gatox> ralsina, ok
[12:52] <ralsina> gatox: you have a MSDN, right?
[12:53] <gatox> ralsina, mmmmmmmmm nop....
[12:53] <ralsina> gatox: ok
[13:00] <gatox> me
[13:01] <ralsina> me
[13:02]  * ralsina is about to start calling all developers phones 5 minutes before standup
[13:02] <gatox> ralsina, i think today there isn't much people around :P
[13:02] <ralsina> mandel is on a plane, I think, nessita is on vacation, noone else has excuses ;-)
[13:02] <dobey> meh
[13:02] <gatox> right
[13:02] <ralsina> thanks dobey!
[13:02] <ralsina> gatox: go
[13:03] <gatox> DONE:
[13:03] <gatox> Learn how to generate the installer. Some work with application icon.
[13:03] <gatox> TODO:
[13:03] <gatox> Keep fighting with application icon and another UI bugs.
[13:03] <gatox> BLOCKED:
[13:03] <gatox> No
[13:03] <gatox> ralsina, go
[13:03] <ralsina> DONE: reviews, proposed a branch for notif. icon, lots of IRL, mgmt call, lots of bug triaging
[13:03] <ralsina> TODO: more of the same, start packaging
[13:03] <dobey> λ DONE: fixed #791736, some gtk3/twisted debugging/hacking
[13:03] <dobey> λ TODO: bug #854754, bug #851187
[13:03] <dobey> λ BLCK: None.
[13:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 854754 in ubuntuone-client-gnome (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Share dialog has extremely small contact selection widget (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854754
[13:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 851187 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Progress bar does not appear on launcher (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851187
[13:03] <ralsina> BLOCKED: no
[13:03] <ralsina> dobey: precocious
[13:03] <dobey> doh
[13:03] <alecu> holla
[13:03] <ralsina> alecu, go!
[13:04] <dobey> ralsina: you switched from single line mode! cheater.
[13:04] <ralsina> dobey: I was typing it :-)
[13:04] <ralsina> dobey: also, shows you don't actually *read* standups ;-)
[13:04] <dobey> i'm not a manager :)
[13:05] <dobey> also, knowing everyone else on my team is working on windows, doesn't really help me much :)
[13:05] <ralsina> dobey: standups are not just for managers. They are also a way for peers to know what the rest of the team is doing, and offer/ask assistance
[13:05] <ralsina> dobey: then there is that ;-)
[13:05] <dobey> and launchpad spams me with mail for bug/branch changes
[13:06] <ralsina> dobey: yes, there has been a lot of churning these last few days. It should settle eventually
[13:06] <ralsina> dobey: do you have access to the canonistack tarmac? It seems to be stuck
[13:06] <gatox> ralsina, the icon looks ok, if it doesn't contain several png insides... but, once it is resized begin to looks ugly... i think that maybe we can choose the most common size and make the .ico in that size... to ensure that is going to be pretty in *most* cases...
[13:06] <ralsina> and sidnei is not here yet
[13:07] <ralsina> gatox: make it look pretty on 7
[13:07] <ralsina> I think that's 64x64 or maybe 48x48
[13:07] <alecu> DONE: made syncdaemon run IRL when the clock is wrong, with a storage-protocol branch for review; found a few more places to fix like this
[13:07] <alecu> TODO: finish sso branch with this fix, work on control panel and sd webcalls (create shares, public files)
[13:07] <alecu> BLOCKED: it's more work than anticipated
[13:07] <alecu> NOTE: happy spring!
[13:07] <gatox> ralsina, yes, i will try with those
[13:08] <gatox> ralsina, really bad management of icons on windows...
[13:08] <alecu> ralsina, so, mandel should be 4 hours on his first flight already
[13:08] <ralsina> alecu: I think so, yes
[13:09] <ralsina> alecu: take it easy on the clock/oauth, I am dropping it from tomorrow's release. Do it right, and aim for next week's
[13:10] <ralsina> alecu: also, could you check if I did the right diagnosis on bug #855513
[13:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 855513 in ubuntuone-client "unexpected keyword argument 'n_bytes_read' (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855513
[13:10] <alecu> ralsina, ok. I'm already trying to do it right, because I know it's sensitive
[13:10] <dobey> ralsina: i do
[13:10] <ralsina> alecu: yes, I am just taking away the time pressure ;-)
[13:10] <ralsina> dobey: could you take a quick look? We have a few branches waiting to merge
[13:11] <dobey> well, i did, before the instance apparently died :)
[13:11] <ralsina> dobey: that explains it ;-)
[13:11] <dobey> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
[13:11] <ralsina> So, it's "wait for sidnei's puppet" time!
[13:13] <alecu> ralsina, from what I see, it seems that the above bug will happen on linux too
[13:13] <dobey> ralsina: when did windows get symlinks?
[13:14] <ralsina> alecu: I thought it was that the windows notification stub lacked arguments
[13:14] <ralsina> dobey: they have .lnk files
[13:14] <ralsina> dobey: except for they not working from CMD, it's the same concept
[13:15] <dobey> it's the same concept if symlinks on unix were .desktop files
[13:15] <alecu> ralsina, hmm... it will be safely ignored, but we won't see detailed progress on downloads
[13:16] <ralsina> dobey: it serves the same purpose.
[13:17] <ralsina> alecu: ok, so let's queue that one up for linux too
[13:17] <dobey> my truck also serves as a key for locked gates, but just because i can open those gates, doesn't mean i drive around smashing through gates to unlock them :)
[13:18] <ralsina> dobey: that's just because the zombiecalypse is not here yet. How about "for a regular windows user, a .lnk serves the same purpose as a symlink serves for a regular linux user"?
[13:20] <dobey> i have to disagree. a) i see zombies everywhere i go, and b) "Confucious say, do not use cannon, to kill mosquito."
[13:23] <dobey> wtf? how is bug #855419 even possible?
[13:23] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 855419 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "Multiple instances of ubuntuone-syncdeamon are running, extremly slowing down system (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855419
[13:24] <ralsina> dobey: it's weird and unusual
[13:24] <ralsina> my guess is, his dbus session is broked beynd belief
[13:27] <dobey> hrmm
[13:27] <dobey> ralsina: will the ssl certs in ubuntuone-storage-protocol having unix line endings break on windows?
[13:28] <ralsina> nope
[13:28] <ralsina> I mean, I don't know
[13:28] <ralsina> I would be surprised if it broke because of that, though
[13:29] <dobey> can we test that?
[13:29] <ralsina> sure
[13:29] <ralsina> let me convert mine
[13:29] <dobey> well, the new openssl apparently broke because they have DOS line endings :)
[13:32] <ralsina> dobey: one of the certs was DOS the other was UNIX
[13:32] <ralsina> dobey: the original certs usually have unix EOLs
[13:32] <ralsina> dobey: that's why it would surprise me if it broke :-)
[13:34] <dobey> hmm, ok
[13:34] <ralsina> seems to work ok
[13:34] <ralsina> I converted them to unix EOLs and was able to login
[13:34] <dobey> ok
[13:34] <ralsina> starting sync now to see if that's ok too
[13:36] <dobey> yeah, syncdaemon is the big one. i don't think control panel/sso/wahtever uses them
[13:37] <dobey> although given that one of the certs is already unix EOLs, i suppose it does work
[13:37] <dobey> or syncdaemon just hasn't worked on windows ever :)
[13:38] <gatox> ralsina, i have 2 branches that are not landing... and they have commit message.... do you know what can be happening?
[13:38] <dobey> gatox: tarmac died
[13:38] <gatox> dobey, ahhhh jeje ok
[14:10] <gatox> ralsina, SSO is not working for me..... ( http://paste.ubuntu.com/694472/ ), i'm going to try to restore the vm to see if i broke something
[14:10] <ralsina> gatox: no, don't
[14:10] <ralsina> gatox: that's because you never ran the installer
[14:11] <gatox> ralsina, ahhh ok...... i'll do that and then uninnstall it
[14:11] <ralsina> it sets two keys in the registry, with the paths and command lines for SSO and syncdaemon
[14:11] <ralsina> if you uninstall the keys go away :_)
[14:11] <gatox> ralsina, ahhhhhhhh okok...... thanks!
[14:11] <ralsina> just run it and then ignore it :-)
[15:07] <dobey> lunch; bbiab
[15:21] <ralsina_> alecu_: I could really use a second review here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ralsina/ubuntuone-windows-installer/no-icon-without-arguments/+merge/76129
[15:21] <alecu_> ralsina_, sure
[15:21] <ralsina_> alecu_: thanks
[15:22] <ralsina_> Argh, I am going to kick manuel's ass tomorrow
[15:22] <ralsina_> i set a needsfixing on his branch yesterday morning, and no comment from him whatsoever
[15:27] <ralsina_> blah, I'll put a try/catch on the release code. CRAP
[15:31] <ralsina_> gatox: do you have the large icon png handy?
[15:36] <gatox> ralsina_, yes
[15:36] <gatox> ralsina_, let me upload it
[15:36] <ralsina_> gatox: thx
[15:38] <gatox> ralsina_, this one is the .ico in 256: http://ubuntuone.com/01MQHJolJVT2XF7TeWf6Gm
[15:38] <gatox> ralsina_, and this is the png: http://ubuntuone.com/2nmlUPxNgzqctuOhV7NW9x
[15:44] <gatox> ralsina_, ping
[15:44] <ralsina_> gatox: pong
[15:44] <gatox> ralsina_, i'm looking at this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-windows-installer/+bug/845737
[15:44] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 845737 in ubuntuone-windows-installer "When entering email to reset password, errors are not highlighted (affects: 1) (heat: 22)" [Medium,In progress]
[15:44] <ralsina_> right
[15:44] <gatox> ralsina_, which shows the error in the top of the window like this: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/79437286/error-not-highlighted%20.png
[15:45] <ralsina_> right
[15:45] <gatox> ralsina_, it says that is not highlighted... but i also think that the error should appear at the bottom of the window as everything else...
[15:45] <gatox> it's a really easy fix
[15:45] <gatox> but i wanted to check with you
[15:45] <ralsina_> go ahead then
[15:45] <gatox> ralsina_, thx
[15:45] <ralsina_> but how many branches do you have "in progress" right now?
[15:46] <gatox> ralsina_, 8....... this is one of them...... and 2 are waiting for tarmac to go live again to merge that branches
[15:46] <ralsina_> that's waaaay too many. But anyway, I have to stop for lunch, so, go ahead, we'll talk and prioritise when I come back
[15:47] <gatox> ralsina_, okok
[16:55] <ralsina> alecu, gatox, did you see the failing merges?
[16:55] <gatox> ralsina, nop
[16:55] <ralsina> gatox: ok, you have one ;-)
[16:55] <gatox> ::S
[16:55] <ralsina> gatox: lp:~diegosarmentero/ubuntu-sso-client/834152
[16:56]  * gatox looking...
[16:56] <gatox> wowwww...... what happend there.......
[16:56] <alecu_> ralsina, I did not
[16:56] <alecu_> ralsina, btw: I've approved your icon branch
[16:56] <ralsina> alecu_: it's the sso branch
[16:57] <ralsina> alecu_: saw it, thanks!
[16:58] <alecu_> doh, a pylint issue! dumb me.
[16:59]  * alecu_ will fix that after moving the bed, desk and chairs to the office.
[16:59]  * ralsina has let down the spirit of nessita by not pylint-checking before approving. Seppuku is required.
[17:04] <ralsina_> Seppuku suspended because I couldn't find the katana unit test.
[17:10] <gatox> ralsina_, i need a review please: https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntu-sso-client/reset845737/+merge/76452
[17:11] <ralsina_> gatox: looking
[17:12] <ralsina_> gatox: that's the reset password page?
[17:12] <gatox> ralsina_, the name of the branch is wrong...... is forgotten password page really
[17:12] <ralsina_> ack
[17:16] <ralsina_> gatox: it works and everything, but it breaks at least one test in ubuntuone-windows-installer
[17:16] <ralsina_> specifically: ubuntuone_installer.gui.qt.tests.test_gui.MainWindowTestCase.test_forgotten_password_controller_error
[17:16] <ralsina_> So you will have to do a small branch on -installer too
[17:16] <gatox> ralsina_, on installer?? ok, on it!
[17:16] <ralsina_> gatox: here's the pastebin http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/694613/
[17:17]  * gatox fixing...
[17:18] <ralsina_> gatox: confirmes that works against sso trunk. So you seem to have changed some bit of API
[17:18] <gatox> yeo
[17:18] <gatox> yep
[17:19] <ralsina_> if you could keep the API the same instead of doing a fix n -installer it may be saner
[17:19] <dobey> oh wow, sunlight
[17:23] <ralsina_> alecu: after the unicode-usernames branch lands, could you ask gatox to do an installer and pass it onto elopio so he can test it on his brazillian XP?
[17:24] <ralsina_> I want to be sure that bug is really gone, and the SSO logs end in the right place
[17:30] <dobey> meh
[17:30] <ralsina_> mooo
[17:31] <elopio> windows installation will complete in approximately 33 minutes. That's saying since approximately 34 minutes.
[17:32] <elopio> I just hope it's enough to set it on portuguese, and not to download the portuguese installer.
[17:32] <dobey> so it seems this issue likely won't be fixable for another 6 months :(
[17:32] <ralsina_> elopio: I suspect it's not enough, but let's try it :-(
[17:33] <ralsina_> elopio: in any case, create a user called something like "çáéñ" and that should have the same effect
[17:33] <elopio> ralsina_, that should have been easier :)
[17:34] <elopio> anyway, I'll leave the download during lunch, so we have the image if required again.
[17:34] <ralsina_> elopio: cool. We probably will. On Windows_pt the system folders are non-ascii. And I know no other windows with that "feature" and a language I kinda can read :-)
[17:35] <elopio> btw, I have access to a lot of downloads through msdn , in case you need something. My prices are cheap.
[17:37] <gatox> ralsina_, sorry....... should i made an installer for elopio ?
[17:37] <ralsina_> gatox: after alecu's unicode name branches land
[17:37] <gatox> ralsina_, ok
[17:37]  * ralsina_ is delegating!
[17:53] <gatox> ralsina_, re-review: https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntu-sso-client/834152/+merge/76026
[17:59] <ralsina_> gatox: on it!
[18:02] <ralsina_> gatox: set to approved again
[18:02] <gatox> ralsina_, ok
[18:06] <ralsina_> I have to go babysit now, mail me review requests if needed, will be back in one hour
[19:13] <jo-erlend> if the Ubuntu One folder is always synced, that means it'll automatically be recreated as soon as I log into U1, right?
[19:13] <jo-erlend> I don't want to sync everything, but I would like to keep all the synced stuff in one hierarchy. Any ideas how to achieve that without having two different Ubuntu One folders?
[19:14] <dobey> uhm; that depends on what ou mean exactly by 'recreated'
[19:14] <dobey> you simple disconnected and deleted it?
[19:14] <dobey> jo-erlend: we don't sync symlinks; so you could put the stuff you don't want somewhere else, and symlink to it i guess
[19:15] <jo-erlend> I haven't done that yet, because I have several gigabytes of data that I don't want to up and download lots of times as an experiment.
[19:15] <dobey> but that will break/work differently, if we ever sync symlinks
[19:17] <jo-erlend> I'm a musician and I store my projects in ~/Music. I have 150GB of data there, and I don't want to store that on U1. But I also have other music in ~/Music that I do want to sync, and I do want them to be available in ~/Music on the other computers. I also don't want a very large list of folders to select when adding a new computer.
[19:23] <jo-erlend> because if I choose to sync ~/Music/Nellie_McKay and ~/Music/The_Doors, then they will get their own top-level folders on U1, right?
[19:25] <dobey> yes
[19:26] <dobey> jo-erlend: if you don't want to sync your project files, maybe move them to ~/Music Projects/ or something instead, that isn't synced?
[19:31] <jo-erlend> yes, that works. But I might want to sync Nellie McKay on all my computers, but not Frank Sinatra, for instance. Then that would become two different hierarchies.
[19:32] <jo-erlend> something like ~/Synced Music/ and
[19:32] <jo-erlend> ~/Unsynced Music/
[19:32] <jo-erlend> that's not elegant, to say the least.
[19:35] <j0nr> hey.... ok, so I drag a folder to another U1 synced folder and it starts syncing. Before it finishes I change my mind and pull it back out... what happens??
[19:36] <j0nr> The folder I pulled back out still looks like it is trying to sync
[19:36] <j0nr> and something is uploading
[19:39] <j0nr> ok maybe its not uploading... but it still has the 'refresh' sync in progress symbol on the folder
[19:42] <ralsina> j0nr: eventually, everything in the folder will be removed from the server
[19:42] <ralsina> j0nr: at least that's what's supposed to happen
[19:46] <j0nr> ralsina: but would it have to all upload if i removed it before it finished uploading?
[19:47] <ralsina> j0nr: no, it should finish whatever file it was uploading then start deleting. More or less.
[19:47] <dobey> jo-erlend: i can't think of any solution to that, which would be elegant, really; if you *actually* want to sync only some of your music library
[19:47] <j0nr> something seems to have got it stuck. the U1 panel says sync in progress, but theres nothing uploading
[19:50] <jo-erlend> dobey, I do. I would like my music to be available, but I might not want to stay connected for weeks before my favorite music became available.
[19:50] <jo-erlend> I wish synced folders would retain their parents. That would solve the whole thing.
[19:51] <dobey> jo-erlend: move everything out of the way temporarily; make an empty folder ~/Music; synchronize it; add only your favorite music; wait for it to sync; add everything else
[19:51] <jo-erlend> dobey, what does that mean?
[19:51] <dobey> what does "retain their parents" mean?
[19:52] <dobey> jo-erlend: it means your "favorite" music will sync first, and you will have all your music synced after
[19:52] <jo-erlend> let's say I'm spending the weekend at my fathers house. So I get an account at his desktop and I log onto my u1 account so I can listen to some music. I now have to either download 50GB of music in order to listen to one album, or use the web interface and download files one by one.
[19:52] <dobey> or get music streaming, and just stream the songs
[19:54] <jo-erlend> is there any chance that Ubuntu one will support filesystem hierarchies in the near future? A flat structure like this is very difficult to deal with.
[19:55] <j0nr> dobey: are yoiu referring to the Android app? Is there a desktop ap to stream music?
[20:00] <jo-erlend> it's not really a problem for me to copy and paste directories as I need them, but it does mean deleting and redownloading those directories on all my computers each time. It's currently impossible for me to sync my music folder to my laptop since it has a small SSD.
[20:00] <dobey> jo-erlend: what did you mean by "retain parents"?
[20:01] <jo-erlend> dobey, that ~/Music/Nellie_McKay should be synced as ~/Music/Nellie_McKay and not as Nellie_McKay
[20:01] <dobey> i think it is
[20:02] <dobey> am pretty well sure it is, in fact
[20:02] <dobey> and easy enough to test
[20:02] <dobey> mkdir -p foo/bar; synchronize foo/bar, go to other computer and subscribe to foo/bar
[20:05] <j0nr> once a new music file is uploaded, how before I could expect to see it in U1 music on android
[20:06] <dobey> j0nr: between 0 and infinity seconds
[20:06] <j0nr> heh ok.
[20:07] <dobey> j0nr: if it's on the server already i'd guess it should show up pretty soon
[20:07] <dobey> beuno: ^^ how often do new files get scanned?
[20:07] <j0nr> hmmmmmmm
[20:07] <ralsina> gatox: ping
[20:08] <j0nr> following u1sdtool --current and uploads seem to be restarting?
[20:09] <dobey> hrmm, my sd is "waiting for connection to end" :(
[20:09] <jo-erlend> dobey, ah, it just took some time before I was notified that I could get those directories. Thanks.
[20:10] <dobey> jo-erlend: mind, syncing all those directories will get you lots of folders in the subscribe list, that you will have to individually subscribe to on each machine
[20:11] <jo-erlend> dobey, yes, but it's far quicker than manually creating the folders and downloading file by file, and certainly _much_ faster than downloading everything, even if that was possible.
[20:12] <dobey> jo-erlend: well, as i said before; you could just subscribe to music streaming, and you wouldn't have to bother with either of those; you could just pick which songs you want to listen to in the streaming app
[20:12] <jo-erlend> I don't know how to do that.
[20:12] <jo-erlend> where can I get it?
[20:13] <dobey> https://one.ubuntu.com/services/music/
[20:13] <jo-erlend> and does it allow to play offline? Because I pay 4 euros per megabyte when I'm on the laptop away from home
[20:13] <jo-erlend> oh, I thought that was only for Android and iOS.
[20:13] <dobey> yes it does; the android/iphone apps have caching
[20:14] <dobey> well, android does have an emulator thing that runs on linux, so you could use it on a real computer too
[20:14] <jo-erlend> I don't want to install Android on my laptop. I want to keep using Ubuntu.
[20:14] <gatox> ralsina, pong
[20:14] <ralsina> gatox: on https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-windows-installer/forgotten845737/+merge/76462
[20:15] <ralsina> gatox: why are you removing the overlay.hide?
[20:15] <dobey> i'm not suggesting not using ubuntu; just saying it is possible to run the android app on top of ubuntu
[20:15] <jo-erlend> oh, I didn't know that was possible.
[20:15] <gatox> ralsina, because now the overlay is executed always in the critical method (before that method wasn't called), so it is no longer neceessary there, and it was called twice
[20:16] <ralsina> ok, +1 then
[20:16] <gatox> :D
[20:16] <ralsina> gatox: but considering the time, I don't think any more branches are getting in this package
[20:16] <dobey> jo-erlend: a bit complex, but definitely possible
[20:17] <ralsina> unless you can get a review from alec-u and I do the build late at night
[20:17] <dobey> jo-erlend: http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Run-Android-Applications-on-Ubuntu-115152.shtml
[20:17] <gatox> alecu, are you free  for a review?
[20:17] <gatox> :P
[20:17] <alecu> gatox, always for you, mister
[20:17] <jo-erlend> dobey, but if I only sync those albums I want to have everywhere, that'll only be a few dozens. Except for the UI in the client, is that a problem?
[20:17] <gatox> alecu, that's the spirit!
[20:18] <beuno> dobey, fairly instanty
[20:18] <jo-erlend> I mean, I'm completely fine with having to check the boxes for each album on each computer.
[20:18] <dobey> j0nr: ^^ "fairly instantly" it is :)
[20:18] <gatox> alecu, https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntu-sso-client/reset845737/+merge/76452  -  https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-windows-installer/forgotten845737/+merge/76462
[20:18] <beuno> dobey, 5 minutes wouldn't surprise me, there's a 4 minute cache
[20:18] <gatox> ralsina, is the sso branch ok?? i saw you just approve the installer one
[20:18] <dobey> beuno: cool, thanks
[20:18] <ralsina> gatox: have not checked that one yet
[20:18] <gatox> ralsina, ok
[20:19] <dobey> jo-erlend: you can do that; i'm just making suggestions that might be easier for you in the long run.
[20:19] <ralsina> alecu: how is the lint fix for the sso unicode-usernames branch going?
[20:20] <alecu> ralsina, uh, I totally forgot about that. I pushed and was waiting for launchpad to rescan. Let me set it to approved again.
[20:20] <ralsina> alecu: ack
[20:21] <ralsina> because after that we still have to merge the other one :-)
[20:21] <alecu> done.
[20:21] <ralsina> gatox: approved the sso branch, but I feel I am doing crappy reviews today, I hardly slept last night :-(
[20:23] <gatox> ralsina, wow :S .... well you'll have a few days to relax and change the air at pycon
[20:24] <ralsina> gatox: puking kids wake me up, what can I say.
[20:24] <gatox> jejeje
[20:26] <jo-erlend> dobey, ok. I guess I'll figure it out somehow. If I now make ~/Music synced and move all files from ~/Ubuntu One/Music over to ~/Music, will that cause me to have to download everything again, or will it handle that properly?
[20:29] <dobey> i don't think that will result in more downloads; moving files out should result in them being "deleted" on the server in that location; you might want to copy, then delete after everything gets synced though, instead of straight move; if you have the available space in your quota
[20:36]  * alecu will be offline for 10minutes, moving the router around
[20:49] <dobey> have a good evening all
[20:50] <jo-erlend> dobey, it did upload :(
[20:54] <ralsina> bye dobey!
[20:54] <alecu> ralsina, gatox: I need to run to pick up amelia because her mother needs to do some errands
[20:54] <ralsina> alecu: ok
[20:54] <alecu> gatox, I'll finish the review in an hour or so.
[20:54] <gatox> alecu, ack
[20:54] <gatox> alecu, np
[20:55] <ralsina> ok, then I will stop for a couple of hours so I can start putting the binaries together after that
[21:39] <alecu> gatox, double approval!
[21:39] <gatox> alecu, awesome! thanks
[21:39] <gatox> :D
[21:39] <alecu> gatox, I've already set to "approved" the sso branch
[21:40] <gatox> alecu, thanks!
[21:40] <alecu> gatox, should we wait for it to land before setting approval on the installer branch?
[21:40] <gatox> alecu, no need
[21:40] <alecu> gatox, cool, then I'm setting the second branch to approved too.
[21:40] <alecu> now, let's see about my branches pending land...
[21:41] <gatox> alecu, are you anxious about BG game?? jeje
[21:45] <ralsina> alecu: ping
[21:46] <ralsina> alecu: I am not sure how far away the oauth branch is but, ahem, there is not as much time as I had in my mind
[21:46] <ralsina> alecu: basically, we need it to be ready by monday noon or so
[21:46] <ralsina> alecu: do you think it can be done tomorrow?
[21:47] <alecu> ralsina, I'll try
[21:47] <ralsina> alecu: cool, that's as much as I can ask for :-)
[21:47] <alecu> ralsina, I still have some work hours today ahead
[21:47] <alecu> ralsina, also, I'm not coming on monday :P
[21:47] <ralsina> alecu: I know, that's why I ask for it for tomorrow :-)
[21:48] <alecu> ralsina, right. It's that or it's working on friday night, and letting gatox play BSG without me.
[21:48] <ralsina> haha
[21:48] <alecu> ralsina, and I would not let that happen!
[21:48] <ralsina> can I join the BG match? ;-)
[21:49] <gatox> jeje
[21:49] <alecu> ralsina, sure!
[21:49] <gatox> awesome!
[21:50] <alecu> ralsina, then I think we are almost full... it's a 5 or 6 player game I think, and facundo already reserved spot.
[21:50] <ralsina> ok
[21:50] <ralsina> I can also not play if someone with more boardgame experience wants to jin
[21:50] <ralsina> join
[21:50] <alecu> oh, and x-ip as well
[21:50] <ralsina> I suspect I will be dead busy doing my saturday talk on friday night
[21:50] <alecu> ralsina, it's a diplomacy and backstabbing game, so no board game experience needed.
[21:51] <ralsina> Oh, I am good at diplomacy and backstabbing
[21:51]  * ralsina brings his backstabbing knifes to Junin
[21:51]  * alecu remembers he needs to finish his friday morning talk :P
[21:51] <alecu> ouch
[21:51] <ralsina> I have to start my friday talk, too
[21:51] <ralsina> and my lightning
[21:51] <alecu> hahahah
[21:51] <gatox> alecu, i have to finish one of my friday talks too......
[21:51] <ralsina> and think about the panel
[21:51] <gatox> we're very responsable
[21:51] <gatox> jeejje
[21:51] <alecu> ok, I'm grabbing a bite, then I'll keep working too.
[21:52] <ralsina> we are busy people
[21:52] <alecu> gatox, it's the windows port!
[21:52] <gatox> of course!
[21:52] <alecu> it's sucking our life away!
[21:52] <gatox> jejjee
[21:52]  * ralsina is taking a shower, and then probably building binaries
[21:52] <ralsina> and tomorrow up at 5:30 to push the signing RT
[21:52] <ralsina> and then all over again on monday/tuesday
[21:53] <ralsina> but I am not doing all the bug triaging next wednesday dudes ;-)
[21:53] <alecu> damn
[21:53] <alecu> tarmac is not picking the latest sso version: https://code.launchpad.net/~alecu/ubuntuone-client/unicode-usernames/+merge/76145
[21:54] <alecu> I'll try again.
[21:54] <alecu> damn
[21:55] <alecu> It won't pick it up, it probably gets it from the nightlies.
[21:55] <alecu> ralsina, houston
[21:56] <alecu> ralsina, my -client branch depends on the changes on the -sso branch
[21:56] <alecu> ralsina, and it seems tarmac is not picking those -sso changes when running the tests for -client
[21:57] <alecu> ralsina, my guess is tarmac is using -sso from packages.
[21:57] <alecu> probably nightlies
[21:58] <toodida>  I just set up Ubuntu one with a shared folder, how to make a friend to download file from my share folder? Do he need an account?
[21:58] <toodida> is there someone experience with ubuntu one setup?
[21:58] <ralsina> alecu: ping sidnei quckly
[21:58] <ralsina> alecu: if that doesn't work, I will have to merge them manually
[21:59] <ralsina> in the release, I mean
[21:59] <ralsina> toodida: you can publish the file (and anyone with the URL can get it), or yes, he needs to create an account
[21:59] <alecu> ralsina, there's no sidnei around :-(
[22:02] <toodida> got that ralsina.....yesterday, I uploaded 6 files in the shared folder, but Ubuntu One did not show or update any file.....is there a bug or something wrong?
[22:03] <toodida> ralsina,,,,,another question: once you had the ubuntu one account setup....Can you upload your data/file from any computer/system or must strictly upload from only one system?
[22:05] <toodida> are U still around ralsina?
[22:24] <elopio> this windows world is so not funny. There is no unicode characters on brazilian portuguese version. It has "Meus documentos".
[22:25] <elopio> ralsina, I created a user with a unicode name. Please let me know if that will do, or if should I look for another weird language.
[22:28] <toodida> elopio....do you want another LANG in mozilla/firefox or in another Application?
[22:30] <elopio> toodida, I wanted a weird character in the path to the user documents and settings. Not related to the language.
[22:32] <toodida> then you should look at the application of the Doc Property to if there are fonts/Chars.....What kind of this Doc App?
[22:33] <elopio> toodida, about your question, you will be able to synchronize files from and to any device connected to your account.
[22:33] <elopio> I didn't understand what you have just said.
[22:34] <alecu> toodida, re: your question above: you should be able to upload from any system
[22:34] <toodida> can you explain clearer what you try to accomplish?
[22:35] <alecu> elopio, ditto.
[22:36] <toodida> alecu, yes I've done it, but more than 24 hrs....those files were not updated, not land into the folder....does it mean that I have to SYNC after uploading?
[22:37] <elopio> toodida, I'm not trying to accomplish anything.  That's it :)
[22:37] <alecu> elopio, lol on the "meus documentos". You should be able to create a weirdly named folder as a sibling of that folder, and make a UDF out of it.
[22:37] <alecu> elopio, it should work as well for the purposes of these tests
[22:38] <alecu> toodida, you should not have to sync after uploading, no.\
[22:38] <alecu> toodida, it should happen automatically.
[22:38] <ralsina> elopio: we are having trouble merging the branches to test that, so don't worry, you can test it tomorrow before the release
[22:38] <toodida> alecu, then why there is none of the file upload? is there a bug of Ubuntu One?
[22:38] <alecu> toodida, if you try uploading "new" files thru the web (one.ubuntu.com), are they downloaded to the "Ubuntu One" folder?
[22:38] <elopio> alecu, that sounds good too. I'll try with that and a weird name. But your branch is refusing to land anyway.
[22:39] <alecu> elopio, yup, it's still refusing to land :-(
[22:40] <elopio> ralsina, sure. Using the weird name and the weird sibling of meus documentos seems like a good test. I'll be pending on the new installer to verify it.
[22:40] <toodida> alecu, I did try to upload it from one.ubuntu.com, during the upload there is no error at all....but nothing in the folder!
[22:40] <ralsina> elopio: ack
[22:41] <alecu> toodida, sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean "upload it *to* one.ubuntu.com"?
[22:41] <toodida> yes, alecu
[22:41] <alecu> toodida, and that file shows up on the folder on the web?
[22:42] <toodida> nup
[22:42] <toodida> that what I meant
[22:42] <toodida> looks like U miss understood my question earlier Alecu
[22:42] <toodida> do you actual use Ubuntu One?
[22:43] <toodida> Alecu?
[22:43] <alecu> toodida, that's very weird, I've never seen anything like that.
[22:43] <alecu> toodida, yup, I work on it.
[22:43] <toodida> well....look like you don't have experience yet....just start learning?
[22:44] <elopio> jeje. Funny guy.
[22:44] <elopio> toodida, so, you are trying to upload a file to a shared folder using the website, right?
[22:45] <elopio> have you tried reloading the page and opening the folder again?
[22:45] <alecu> toodida, no, it's been a year and a half. But I'm not a native english speaker, so I sometimes have trouble understanding some people
[22:45] <toodida> correct elopio
[22:46] <toodida> how long have U been using UbuntuOne, alecu?
[22:46] <alecu> toodida, more than two years. What about you?
[22:46] <toodida> just 2 days
[22:46] <elopio> toodida, have you tried reloading the page and opening the folder again?
[22:51] <toodida> elopio/alecu.....nothing showed even refresh the page!
[22:51] <elopio> toodida, is weird. I have just tried to do it and I got my files uploaded. There is a small issue with the reload, though.
[22:52] <elopio> toodida, can you give me the steps to reproduce your problem?
[22:52] <elopio> perhaps I'm doing something different.
[22:58] <toodida> elopio: here is the basic step: 1) login to your ID + pwd at one.ubuntu.com -- 2) under Files -> upload file: select it and it open a browser for the user to select file to upload --3) after select the specific file, choose open , then it starts to upload..--4) the upload processing shows the blue/green bar on the screen until it disappear without error....That's it...The user supposes to see the file in the share folder.....Why
[22:58] <toodida> don't you try to reproduce it and let me know?
[22:59] <toodida> I think Ubuntu One QA Engineer failed to test this basic feature!
[23:00] <toodida> it's just a baby toy --- non professional tool
[23:00] <toodida> it's a crab
[23:00] <elopio> toodida, jeje, you are right. I'm a QA Engineer and I failed to test that :)
[23:00] <elopio> I'm sorry.
[23:01] <toodida> well what does the QA lead to release it?
[23:01] <elopio> but I did what you said. And then refreshed the page, and the file is uploaded. I'm reporting the bug about the refresh.
[23:01] <elopio> toodida, it's kinda complex, but we are working on improving the process so this things don't happen again.
[23:01] <toodida> can you allow me to take a look of your shared folder, elopio?
[23:02] <elopio> toodida, sure. What's your email?
[23:03] <toodida> ok elopio<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:04] <elopio> toodida, shared.
[23:04] <toodida> It's so glad to know you are the QA Eng.....do U think it allows to upload the entire folder or multiple files at one?
[23:06] <elopio> toodida, I think I haven't fully understood your question.
[23:07] <elopio> from your computer, if you move an entire folder to your Ubuntu One folder, it will upload the entire folder contents, one file at a time.
[23:09] <elopio> toodida, your issue #855973, in case you want to subscribe to follow the status.
[23:09] <elopio> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+bug/855973
[23:09] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 855973 in ubuntuone-servers "uploaded files are not shown (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,New]
[23:09] <toodida> ok....but if you are travel and using different system, but you already had the entire folder, can you do the same?
[23:10] <toodida> Thanks for the bug ID.
[23:10] <jamesw> hello, how can i synchronize another folder other than the Ubuntu One folder?
[23:10] <elopio> toodida, still don't understand. If you are in another system, and connect to your ubuntu one account, it will download all the files you have uploaded.
[23:10] <jamesw> the context menu item doesn't seem to work
[23:10] <elopio> and they will be kept synchronized.
[23:11] <toodida> got it and Thx elopio
[23:11] <elopio> jamesw, what operating system are you using?
[23:11] <jamesw> natty
[23:12] <elopio> jamesw, let me update and check.
[23:12] <jamesw> i am trying to synchronize a folder in .Private but it is completely ignored
[23:13] <toodida> elopio, one more basic question for you: How did you send the share folder to friend to access just like you just send a "test" folder to me?
[23:13] <elopio> toodida, from the website, theres a link "More" next to your browser. Open it, click share and enter your friend's address.
[23:14] <elopio> toodida, or you can do that from nautilus too.
[23:16] <toodida> ok....elopio....let's me test it and send it to you to see if you can get it...can you let me know you email pls?
[23:20] <elopio> toodida<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:24] <toodida> ok...elopio....can you confirm whether you can see a mp3 file in there? it
[23:24] <toodida> it's pretty slow, elopio
[23:25] <elopio> toodida, it depends on your upload speed.
[23:26] <elopio> I haven't received any share notification yet.
[23:26] <toodida> elopio, this file is only 21mb, but still load the email to you....more than 1.3 mins
[23:27] <toodida> hmm....still load....sorry for the slowness
[23:30] <toodida> do you receive it yet elopio?
[23:55] <elopio> jamesw, sorry for the delay. I don't have nautilus integration either. Will investigate...
[23:56] <jamesw> i have the integration
[23:56] <jamesw> i tell it to synchronize and it doesn't give any feedback and the folder does not appear in the u1 control panel
[23:58] <elopio> ah, I found my integration.
[23:58] <elopio> jamesw, I could synchronize a folder outside ubuntu one. And I see it on the panel and on the website.
[23:59] <elopio> do you have any other issues? can you adding a file to the ubuntu one folder and check for it on the website?


[00:18] <OvenWerks> wonko: good. I did not put a logging message in to catch this particular problem. You may see extra "device = <your usb device> play: <something> capture: <something>
[00:19] <wonko> well, at this point zero log entries at all, so I guess that's good then. :)
[00:19] <OvenWerks> If you see those in the log file and your setup doesn't quit/lockup/otherwise misbehave, then we have fixed it.
[00:19] <wonko> I'll check on it in the morning
[00:19] <wonko> I'll keep an eye out for those then
[00:20] <wonko> Thanks for fixing that, btw!
[00:20] <OvenWerks> your welcome, thanks for pointing it out.
[11:14] <wonko> OvenWerks: so far so good
[11:14] <wonko> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/hXhk3rsrm8/
[11:16] <wonko> oh, that thing in the udevd logs is the wireless mouse receiver, not the audio device.
[11:16] <wonko> so unrelated anyway
[15:28] <studiobot> KaioHenriquebr was removed by: KaioHenriquebr
[15:55] <wonko> OvenWerks: It just happened again. :(
[16:04] <OvenWerks> your log from last night shows a lot of xruns
[16:05] <OvenWerks> which latency are you using?
[16:05] <OvenWerks> and I forget, are you using the lowlatency kernel?
[16:07] <OvenWerks> wonko: what does cat /etc/default/rtirq |grep RTIRQ_NAME_LIST show
[16:10] <wonko> wonko@deepthought:~/Documents/projects/BattleTech/RTWikiBot$ cat /etc/default/rtirq |grep RTIRQ_NAME_LIST
[16:10] <wonko> # RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="rtc snd usb i8042" # old
[16:10] <wonko> RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="snd usb i8042"
[16:10] <wonko> Linux deepthought 5.0.0-27-lowlatency #28-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Tue Aug 20 20:33:37 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[16:11] <wonko> 128 latency
[16:12] <OvenWerks> wonko you use your USB device as jack master?
[16:13] <OvenWerks> If so, usb should be before snd
[16:13] <OvenWerks>  also usb should be changed.
[16:13] <OvenWerks> I would guess you have USB mouse and kb?
[16:14] <wonko> usb device as jack master
[16:14] <wonko> yes on the mouse/kbd
[16:16] <OvenWerks> your mouse is at the same (maybe higher priority as your audio.
[16:17] <Eickmeyer> That happens a lot if it's a mouse with a high pull rate, like a lot of gaming mice.
[16:22] <OvenWerks> wonko: if you type usb-devices do you find that your Sound Device is on the same Bus as you r mouse?
[16:22] <OvenWerks> does changing the USB plug you use on your computer change that? (it doesn't on my computer)
[16:24] <wonko> mouse: T:  Bus=03 Lev=02 Prnt=02 Port=00 Cnt=01 Dev#= 15 Spd=12  MxCh= 0
[16:24] <wonko> audio: T:  Bus=03 Lev=01 Prnt=01 Port=01 Cnt=02 Dev#= 13 Spd=480 MxCh= 0
[16:25] <wonko> *everything* is on bus 3
[16:25] <wonko> I only need usb2 for the KA6
[16:25] <wonko> I should see if moving that to one of the usb2 ports would put it on a different bus (currently everything is plugged into the usb3 ports)
[16:25] <OvenWerks> Yeah, the new mother boards route all the plugs to one usb bus
[16:26] <OvenWerks> That means it is sharing time with whatever else is there.
[16:28] <wonko> nope, still on bus 3
[16:28] <wonko> time to go plug the usb pcie card I have in. :)
[16:28] <OvenWerks> yeah that may make a difference
[16:29] <OvenWerks> I would be interested to know
[16:30] <wonko> should I update usb before snd as well?
[16:30] <wonko> i still need to find that card and make the time to stick it in
[16:30] <wonko> and remember what I did with the screws for the bulkhead
[16:31] <OvenWerks> wonko: first you want to get your device on a different usb bus if you can... then do "usb3 snd usb"
[16:31] <OvenWerks> assuming usb3 is your device usb...it may not be
[16:31] <wonko> it's a usb2 device, so that wouldn't be right
[16:32] <OvenWerks> not the same thing.
[16:32] <OvenWerks> in this case usb3 is the bus not the type.
[16:33] <wonko> oh, ok.
[16:40]  * OvenWerks wonders if using a usb 3.0 hub to plug in a USB 2.0 audio device would separate the audio device to another bus.
[16:45] <wonko> I don't think so
[16:47] <OvenWerks> A USB3.0 device should get it's own bus... there are 4 buses those other three buses must be there for some reason
[16:48] <OvenWerks> A USB3.0 hub should act as a 3.0 to 2.0 device.
[16:48] <OvenWerks> that is, it should be a 2.0 host
[17:08] <wonko> usb card added
[17:08] <wonko> what a colossal pain in the ass
[17:08] <wonko> but, now the audio device is on its own bus
[17:14] <wonko> OvenWerks: should I tweak rtirq or do you want to see what happens now?
[17:21] <OvenWerks> wonko: when you plug your audio device into that plug which usb bus does it end up on?
[17:24] <wonko> the new bus5
[17:25] <wonko> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/M3wK7BT9SW/
[17:25] <wonko> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ks3FGGdprb/
[17:27] <OvenWerks> Cool! so change you  rtirq line to "usb5 snd usb"
[17:27] <wonko> do I need to restart/reboot/etc to get that into effect?
[17:27] <OvenWerks> (or whatever just make sure the plain usb is at the end)
[17:27] <OvenWerks> yes
[17:28] <OvenWerks> you would need to reboot
[17:28] <wonko> ok
[17:28] <OvenWerks> you can run the rtirq again but it does not remove priority
[17:48] <OvenWerks> wonko: what does /etc/init.d/rtirq status
[17:48] <OvenWerks> show
[18:03] <wonko> lots. :)
[18:04] <wonko> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/KHm2FvvVSj/
[18:09] <OvenWerks> wonko: That still shows snd on top
[18:09] <wonko> RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="usb5 snd usb i8042"
[18:10] <wonko> is what I put in /etc/default/rtirq
[18:10] <OvenWerks> OK, so the usb5 trick doesn't work any more
[18:12] <OvenWerks> we need to find out which of those irq goes to your audio device
[18:13] <OvenWerks> (and wonder if it will stay there)
[18:15] <OvenWerks> Mind ifirq18/38 is your card, that would be ok too
[18:15] <OvenWerks> wonko: do you get less xruns?
[18:15] <wonko> how do I even check? I don't know without Claudia. :)
[18:15] <wonko> just check the log file?
[18:16] <wonko> is that the state = Triggered thing?
[18:16] <OvenWerks> Huh, something else I should add to controls I guess
[18:16] <wonko> that would be nice. :)
[18:16] <OvenWerks> it should show client not finished for an xrun
[18:17] <OvenWerks> adding xruns would mean a redesign of a good portion of things
[18:17] <wonko> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/bXJKDzZXH3/
[18:22] <OvenWerks> hmm
[18:23] <OvenWerks> I would guess we are not quite there
[18:23] <OvenWerks> rtirq does nto understand usb5.
[18:30] <OvenWerks> wonko: there is another script that does similar to rtirq that may work better for you but it does not come as a package
[18:31] <wonko> I'm ok with that
[18:31] <wonko> Is any of this still valid: https://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration
[18:32] <OvenWerks> some of that is out of date.
[18:32] <wonko> I ran that script and this is what "failed"
[18:33] <wonko> Checking access to the high precision event timer... not readable - not good
[18:33] <wonko> Checking access to the real-time clock... not readable - not good
[18:33] <wonko> Kernel with Real-Time Preemption... not found - not good
[18:33] <wonko> the rest all checks out
[18:33] <wonko> anyway, bbiab, need to get the kid from the bus stop
[18:33] <OvenWerks> however, it does remind me of something... in -controls on the system tab
[18:33] <OvenWerks> (system Tweaks)
[18:34] <OvenWerks> make sure CPU governor is set to performance and boost (if it is changable) to off.
[18:37] <OvenWerks> https://github.com/jhernberg/udev-rtirq
[18:38] <OvenWerks> wonko: ^^
[18:46] <wonko> first thing I did was set performance and boost off
[18:47] <wonko> so you guys aren't enabling threadirqs?
[18:49] <OvenWerks> I don't know
[18:49] <OvenWerks> something to find out
[18:49] <wonko> I don't see that you are, so I've added that
[18:50] <OvenWerks> cool where?
[18:50] <wonko> I changed GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash" to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="threadirqs quiet splash" in /etc/default/grub
[18:50] <wonko> so looks like another reboot. :)
[18:50] <OvenWerks> thank you
[18:50] <OvenWerks> yes
[19:09] <wonko> ok
[19:10] <wonko> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Q4x2BpRqfb/
[19:11] <wonko> no xruns so far
[19:21] <wonko> just got a couple
[19:28] <OvenWerks> wonko: after a few reboots and so far no sign I actually changed the priority of anything by plugging in a usb device...
[19:29] <OvenWerks> I have found that I can turn xhci off in bios after which my usb devices show up on different usb buses
[19:29] <wonko> hmm
[19:29] <wonko> interesting
[19:29] <wonko> so the bus is virtualized by xhci
[19:29] <OvenWerks> where everything was on usb3 before, now my mouse is on usb2 and my audio is on usb1
[19:48] <wonko> Ok better
[19:48] <wonko> now Quassel-Core won't restart every time I reboot my computer
[19:49] <wonko> oh no!
[19:49] <wonko> jack server restarted. :(
[20:03] <wonko> OvenWerks: Who wrote Carla? you guys?
[20:03] <OvenWerks> no falktx did
[20:03] <OvenWerks> same as all the kxstudio stuff
[20:04] <wonko> It would be nice if it reconnected to jack when it came back. Minor annoyance though, nothing serious
[20:04] <OvenWerks> I haven't found any application that does that...
[20:06] <OvenWerks> The only way to do that I know of is to keep trying to reconnect and fail till it comes back
[20:06] <OvenWerks> bugging jackdbus via dbus may work too, but seems not too rliable.
[20:18] <wonko> Ah well, would have been nice, but again, not a major issue
[20:20] <wonko> major issue being that jack crashed even with all this new stuff going on. :(
[20:23] <wonko> xruns being way down is awesome though
[20:31] <OvenWerks> The udev-rtirq doesn't seem to work for me
[20:33] <OvenWerks> I was able to more my usb irq by hand: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/RHGxDRd7s7/
[20:34] <OvenWerks> irq20 is my USB1 and irq23 is sub2
[20:35] <wonko> how do I find out which irq maps to what?
[20:37] <wonko> I mean, xruns are *way* down, so that's good
[20:37] <OvenWerks> when I did: cat /proc/interrupts I got  20:    2810586          0         30          0   IO-APIC  20-fasteoi   ehci_hcd:usb1
[20:37] <wonko> so maybe it's not super important and is "good enough"?
[20:38] <wonko> I have 56 cores. That's some ugly output. :)
[20:38] <OvenWerks> I guess it depends on what you are doing.
[20:38] <OvenWerks> 56 cores? that may be the problem
[20:39] <OvenWerks> The low latency tests I have seen tend to favour fewer cores
[20:39] <OvenWerks> Also hyperthreading will raise the lowest latency
[20:39] <wonko> Well then I'll be happy with the results I have now. :)
[20:40] <wonko> I don't even see usb5 in /proc/interrupts
[20:40] <OvenWerks> I purposely bought an i5 with 4 cores and no hyperthreads rather than the i7
[20:40] <wonko> irq19 is usb1 and usb3
[20:41] <wonko> irq18 is usb2
[20:42] <OvenWerks> one of the ehci/xhci must be your pcie card
[20:43] <OvenWerks> I would say one of the 4* ones
[20:44] <OvenWerks> 18 and 38 will be linked and 19/39 too
[20:44] <wonko> can I expect zero xruns to be a reasonable goal or is 5 every couple of minutes not terrible
[20:45] <OvenWerks> I don't know, try going from 128 to 256 for buffer size
[20:47] <OvenWerks> I am pretty sure there some more tricks
[20:49] <OvenWerks> I do know that I can do better with what I have. I haven't done a lot of testing lately so I don't know what newer kernels and even this MB are good for. I used to be able to get down to a buffer size 16 with no xruns for hours.
[20:49] <OvenWerks> but that was with a pci audio device
[20:52] <OvenWerks> You can see that have a whole lot shorter irq list too. All of those megasas and ens1 things you have listed must be one per core.
[20:53] <OvenWerks> tying you irq for your usb device along with your audio chain to one core might do wonders too. I know of people who have gotten their buffer size to less than 64 (32/3 I think) even with a usb device
[21:23] <OvenWerks> wonko: I wonder if the webcam is causing any odd stuff.
[21:23] <wonko> Yeah, let's not get crazy just yet. Mic should be here Monday. Then I'll stop using the webcam
[21:23] <wonko> Then we'll see what happens
[21:24] <wonko> And leave CPU pining for last. 😁
[21:24] <OvenWerks> maybe the webcam doesn't like 64 for a buffer
[21:24] <OvenWerks> cpu pinning is a task and a half I think
[21:24] <OvenWerks> And I don't know if it would help anyway.
[21:25] <OvenWerks> What I do know is that you seem to have 128 extra irqs that most cpus don't have
[21:26] <OvenWerks> I don't know how often they have to tale to each other, but that may be enough to do things.
[21:26] <OvenWerks> s/tale/talk/
[21:37] <wonko> The joys of not having desktop CPUs


[09:56] <rEnr3n> hi, is tagalog allowed here?
[13:26] <six519> ,names
[13:27] <six519> rEnr3n: cyempre...
[13:27] <six519> :D
[23:12] <newbie_11> hi guys! linux newbie here. need help. anyone?