[00:14] <xnox> ali1234: 7 is the default in 12.10.
[00:41] <MaGeD_> Hello , noob question , anyone know an easy fix for this http://i.imgur.com/vepML.jpg  split into volumes option is grayed out
[00:41] <MaGeD_> 10.04
[00:44] <ali1234> no reason to use 7
[00:44] <ali1234> MaGeD_: choose a different archive type maybe? i don't think tar supports multivolume
[00:46] <MaGeD_> it works only with ( rar )
[00:46] <ali1234> well there you go then
[00:46] <ali1234> you can split the file by hand if you really need tar
[00:47] <MaGeD_> yeah but rar makes high cpu load
[00:47] <MaGeD_> found this
[00:47] <MaGeD_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file-roller/+bug/513244
[07:09] <dubac0> i cant move my curser even after rebooting
[07:58] <ali1234> fixed my samsung and put CM10/jelly bean on it
[07:58] <ali1234> i'm pretty pleased with how that turned out
[07:59] <ali1234> now i have to install all apps again
[08:00] <ali1234> and it only took 8 hours of messing around with flashing utilities
[08:06] <ali1234> ok, gmail, maps, streetview, plus, youtube, now, what else am i missing?
[08:07] <ali1234> haha, default alarms: 8:30 weekdays, 9:00 weekend
[08:08] <ali1234> 8:30 is a weird time to get up for work
[08:09] <ali1234> it's too late to make it for 9am start
[08:09] <ali1234> but too early that you could just sleep in
[08:09] <popey> not if you work from home :)
[08:10] <ali1234> true
[08:10] <ali1234> well, no
[08:10] <ali1234> not unless you shower and eat breakfast on company time
[08:11] <ali1234> if you roll out of bed and directly in front of the computer without doing either of those things, or even getting dressed, then maybe
[08:11] <ali1234> but people tell me i'm weird for doing that
[08:13] <theopensourcerer> morning everyone
[08:13] <AlanBell> morning
[08:13] <Myrtti> moin alans
[08:13] <theopensourcerer> \o Myrtti
[08:16] <popey> ali1234, i often check my email from bed before actually getting up
[08:16] <popey> grab phone/tablet and just skim the most recent stuff
[08:17] <theopensourcerer> me too. My SG Tab 10.1 lives by the side of my bed mostly.
[08:17] <ali1234> sometimes i answer the phone while i'm asleep and talk to the other person and then don't remember
[08:18] <Myrtti> ♥  Nexus
[08:18] <ali1234> i don't think i've ever sleep-emailed though
[08:18] <Myrtti> IRC from bed even now
[08:27] <popey> friend of mine reads magazines in her sleep
[08:30] <christel> GOOD MORNING PRETTIES
[08:30] <AlanBell> theopensourcerer: you have the same tablet as the Queen
[08:30] <theopensourcerer> orly
[08:30] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20314882
[08:31] <AlanBell> hers is full of rather dull videos though
[08:31] <theopensourcerer> Ah no. She has the latest model.
[08:31] <diplo> Morning all
[08:35] <ali1234> 150GB of videos in a "digital time capsule" on a tablet computer that will probably break within 5 years
[08:36] <AlanBell> I doubt it would get heavy usage
[08:36] <ali1234> doesn't matter
[08:36] <ali1234> the battery will be the first thing to go
[08:36] <AlanBell> as long as it doesn't grow tin whiskers it will be fine
[08:51] <Myrtti> uuer, N7 Android update to 4.2
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> my Galaxy Nexus has 4.2, it's great :)
[08:52] <Myrtti> not had that yet
[08:52] <MartijnVdS> did it manually
[08:54] <popey> the multi-user thing doesn't work the way I'd hoped
[08:54] <popey> user 1 installs stuff, user 2 can't see those apps
[08:54] <popey> so each user has their own sandboxed apps
[08:54] <popey> which is a waste of space
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> Xoom is no longer supported. Time for a new tablet ;)
[09:30] <jacobw> morning
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> howdy
[09:30] <jacobw> wie gehts?
[09:39] <jacobw> MartijnVdS: does anyone really say 'getwittert' or 'gefacebookt'?
[09:42] <danfish> morning
[09:42] <diplo> I don't know wtf you are on about so no :D
[09:43] <danfish> aces - amazon S3 now supports 'archiving' to amazon glacier
[09:59] <knightwise> morning everyone
[10:03] <czajkowski> popey: when you switch to your guest session does your wifi still work ?
[10:04]  * popey switches
[10:04] <popey> oh, 12.10?
[10:04] <popey> and how are you determining if it works or not?
[10:04] <czajkowski> I cant connect to lp
[10:05] <czajkowski> but can see the wifi thingy still connected
[10:05] <mungojerry> i would expect that guest mode would not remember password
[10:05] <popey> in the normal user go to the wireless icon and click "edit connection"
[10:05] <popey> and see if it's "available for all users"
[10:05] <mungojerry> does that even work for an unauthenticated user?
[10:05] <popey> guest doesn't need to remember passwords for wifi
[10:05] <czajkowski> popey: yup tis ticked
[10:05] <popey> if the main user has already connected
[10:06] <czajkowski> popey: main is connected and it's available to all users
[10:06] <czajkowski> bugger
[10:06] <popey> czajkowski, ticked in wireless -> the wifi connection you're currently using
[10:06] <czajkowski> yup
[10:06] <popey> so you're logged on as you, then you switch to guest?
[10:11] <czajkowski> yup
[10:11] <czajkowski> and then wifi just wouldnt work
[10:11] <czajkowski> so switched to cabel
[10:11] <czajkowski> *cable
[10:32] <Myrtti> where's my USB stick, going to probably downgrade today
[10:33] <lornajane> Myrtti: what are you downgrading?
[10:33] <Myrtti> my laptop from 12.10 to 12.04
[10:34] <Myrtti> Online accounts are flaking out and so Empathy doesn't automatically log itself in for some reason, and the Unity Webapps addons crash and don't work
[10:34] <lornajane> Myrtti: I wondered what wasn't working for you ... I'm just about to upgrade in the opposite direction!
[10:35]  * popey is on 12.04 on his laptop
[10:35] <popey> 12.10 on the desktop
[10:36] <lornajane> I'm home for a few weeks so time for the 12.10 upgrade - this is basically my only machine though, which is why it has to wait for a gap in work committments
[10:36] <lornajane> I am an XFCE girl so I don't see the same gui changes as others do ... in fact right now I'm running chrome, skype, and five terminals.  So it doesn't really matter what X does
[10:38] <Myrtti> yeah I suppose going back to Xubuntu would be an option too
[10:41] <lornajane> I just don't use any window manager features other than having somewhere to put the windows
[10:42] <knightwise> Xubuntu keeps on surprising me
[10:42] <knightwise> it has matured very nicely i think
[10:44] <popey> I hear Lubuntu is nice and lean/fast
[10:44] <lornajane> I tried mint with LXDE and just couldn't get enough things configured the way I wanted them
[10:45] <lornajane> so this is kind of XFCE on top of that
[10:46] <popey> ahh
[10:47] <lornajane> I still have some major omissions but nothing that I really can't live with
[10:47] <knightwise> popey: i tried lubuntu on the old G4 imac
[10:48] <knightwise> it was pretty spiffy
[10:49] <mungojerry> i'm on lxde at the mo
[10:49] <mungojerry> with xcompmgr so i can use a dick
[10:49] <mungojerry> dock
[10:49] <mungojerry> DOCK!
[10:50] <czajkowski> mungojerry: go have a cuppa
[10:51] <mungojerry> cuppa ribena
[10:58] <ali1234> 12.10 is pretty good as long as you don't attempt to use unity
[10:58] <ali1234> so pretty much the same as the last few releases really
[11:04] <selinium> morning all o/
[11:12] <AlanBell> davmor2: popey: czajkowski: other canonipeeps: what is the plan for tomorrow evening?
[11:13] <zleap> what is the crash handler program called ?
[11:13] <AlanBell> whoopsie
[11:13] <davmor2> AlanBell: I have no idea, food, pub I guess
[11:13] <selinium> AlanBell, Tomorrow evening?
[11:13] <zleap> is that the one that comes up with a report when a program crashes
[11:13] <AlanBell> time? general area of London?
[11:13] <popey> no
[11:14] <popey> apport
[11:14] <zleap> ah thanks
[11:14] <davmor2> AlanBell: I got no idea what is around here
[11:14] <popey> apport is the popup, technically apport-gtk, not whoopsie
[11:14] <popey> AlanBell, depends if I can get in, plumber coming back tomorrow
[11:14] <zleap> i am going to file a bug report against it to see if they can make a few enhancements
[11:15] <popey> zleap, such as?
[11:17] <davmor2> AlanBell: I'm happy to go where you popey czajkowski recommend
[11:18] <davmor2> AlanBell: mostly cause czajkowski is trying to be nice to me
[11:18] <czajkowski> I've the CC meeting tmorrow
[11:18] <czajkowski> plus MRI results tomorrow so need to work around my hours
[11:19] <zleap> popey,  1.  when it is compiling the report it the graphic thing going roundf,  perhaps if it said "compiling report, please wait"  users would know what its doing,  2,  with send report clicked ,  if you ten click relaunch,  you get no indication thsat its sending someting
[11:19] <AlanBell> davmor2: it won't last
[11:19] <zleap> popey, looking at the bugs page I am suggesting this on brainstorm as per instructions
[11:19] <popey> zleap, the sending happens in the background
[11:20] <zleap> maybe some sort of indication its doing that would be helpful
[11:20] <popey> so it doesn't make sense to tell you its sending because it might not actually be sending it
[11:20] <popey> it does it later when there's a decent network connection
[11:20] <zleap> ok
[11:20] <davmor2> czajkowski: that doesn't mean you can't recommend somewhere to eat though :P
[11:20] <zleap> what about the first point then
[11:21] <popey> that only appears for people who show details doesn't it?
[11:21] <davmor2> selinium: I'm down from Wolverhampton for a sprint in London so Thursday was the best day for us to get together and finally met up properly
[11:21] <zleap> not sure,  i tried to log back in so skype would crash and bring it up,  but it didn't
[11:21] <zleap> it seemed to be there anyway while compiling the report
[11:21] <popey> yeah, you only get details and the spinny if you ask for it
[11:21] <zleap> ah
[11:22] <selinium> davmor2, Ah.. thought I had missed some memo... :)
[11:23] <czajkowski> davmor2: I only ever go to katzenjammers borough market  close to trains and here
[11:24] <zleap> i will have a look next time i get a crash
[11:32] <Myrtti> Is there a difference in speed or performance between Virtualbox or kvm?
[11:34] <popey> i use virtualbox because it has 3d acceleration, which kvm doesn't
[11:35] <popey> but I think other than that they're comparable
[11:36] <directhex> cpu performance should be identical, since they're both using CPU extensions on modern processors to provide direct-to-cpu computation, not emulating a cpu
[11:37] <Daviey> i'd like to see a benchmark
[11:38] <davmor2> Myrtti: it depends what you need, lxc is good if you need something light, kvm is good if you don't need 3d, virtualbox is great if you need the extra gfx grunt
[11:38] <Myrtti> passing the information to the party interested
[12:02]  * popey scratches Uganda off his "must visit" list
[12:02] <popey> http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/uganda-officially-pass-%E2%80%98kill-gays%E2%80%99-bill121112
[12:02] <popey> *boggle*
[12:05] <mungojerry> wonder why popey is reading that website
[12:05] <ali1234> i think whoever wrote the crash details thing should be made to write a 500 word essay explaining why it is so slow, and that should be displayed in place of the spinner.
[12:07] <AlanBell> mungojerry: it is causing outrage across various forms of social media (rightly so)
[12:11] <mungojerry> i didn't click the link
[12:11] <mungojerry> but the url seems to tell a story
[13:03] <directhex> oops. http://i.imgur.com/yeVUZ.png
[13:09] <diplo> :D
[13:09] <diplo> need m0ar bandwith!!!111!!1!
[13:16] <dwatkins> popey: yeah, I couldn't believe they passed it either.
[13:16] <jacobw> precise shutdowns on laptop each time i remove the AC in
[13:27] <mungojerry> wow ARM shares are on a huge march at the mo
[13:27] <AlanBell> directhex: is that steam?
[13:28] <popey> AlanBell, it is
[13:28]  * popey bought a game at lunchtime in steam, on linux, and played it
[13:28] <popey> win
[13:29] <AlanBell> ok, so it has a blog thing in it then
[13:29] <mungojerry> Apple engineers are "confident" that the custom-designed ARM-based chips which now run the iPhone and iPad will one day be powerful enough to run Mac laptop and desktop computers, Bloomberg reported after talking to three people in the know who wish to remain anonymous.
[13:29] <AlanBell> does it have a support forum type of area?
[13:29] <ali1234> it has eveerything in it
[13:29] <popey> each game can publish news
[13:29] <popey> yes AlanBell
[13:29] <AlanBell> I didn't know it was a communications thing as well as a store
[13:29] <ali1234> it's like everything else these days
[13:29] <popey> it has forums
[13:29] <ali1234> it's a combined social network, IM client, and app store
[13:30] <AlanBell> right, so people wanting support with games should talk to each other in the steam client
[13:30] <knightwise> mungojerry: well it COULD be true someday
[13:30] <popey> thats the usual place people go
[13:30] <popey> http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/
[13:30] <knightwise> they had PPC before they came to intell , who says they just wont pack up and leave again ?
[13:30] <knightwise> Apple is seldom known for its backward compatiility
[13:30] <popey> http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1414  for example for the game I just bought
[13:31] <AlanBell> popey: the question arose as to whether we support steam in #ubuntu or not
[13:31] <popey> yup, and the "best" place is in their forums
[13:32] <ali1234>  agree
[13:32] <AlanBell> !steam
[13:33] <AlanBell> so that is a bit out of date now, right?
[13:33] <popey> yes
[13:33] <popey> the close (hah) beta has started
[13:33] <ali1234> if you want companies to actually spend money supporting linux the best way to do it is totally flood their support channels with linux noobs
[13:33] <ali1234> i'm totally serious btw
[13:33] <AlanBell> ali1234: excellent point
[13:33] <popey> my sarcasm detector was twitching a touch tbh
[13:33] <AlanBell> no, I completely get the point
[13:34] <ali1234> i really mean it
[13:34] <BigRedS> I keep hearing of people speaking of trying Ubuntu in order to look at the steam beta. That sounds like something that'll end well
[13:37] <popey> i see arch and now majero (or whatever it's called today) have steam repackaged in their repos
[13:38] <ali1234> seems reasonable
[13:38] <popey> yeah
[13:38] <ali1234> there's no good reason for it not to work
[13:38] <popey> glad they have
[13:39] <ali1234> the fragmentation argument is stupid
[13:39] <popey> how long before someone makes an steam remix which boots directly into steam
[13:39] <ali1234> you only have to look at the PC vs mac vs amiga vs atari market from ... whenever
[13:39] <ali1234> which of those is was most "fragmented"? and which one won?
[13:39] <BigRedS> popey: I've been wanting that for Windows for years
[13:40] <knightwise> steam is going to be the ember of the fire of change
[13:40] <popey> we're hoping to get some performance improvements in unity & compiz in the next 12.04 SRU
[13:40] <knightwise> just watch
[13:40] <ali1234> nah, that's android
[13:40] <ali1234> the platform is already burning... and it isn't nokia
[13:42] <BigRedS> Is getting into this beta idiot-proof? It's still not *that* hard to reboot, but I'd rather not
[13:42] <ali1234> BigRedS: it used to be rather trivial to set a shell registry key to run whatever.exe instead of explorer.exe and get a single program running fullscreen on login
[13:42] <ali1234> i've not tried that since NT4 though
[13:43] <BigRedS> haha, yeah, I stopped going anywhere near the registry the moment they stopped paying me to
[13:43] <AlanBell> popey: steam could be a desktop environment selected at the login screen presumably
[13:43] <bashrc> The Windows registry was a hellhole
[13:43] <popey> yes, omg posted an article about it today
[13:43] <popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/how-to-login-to-steam-big-picture-mode-in-ubuntu
[13:44] <AlanBell> oh, right :)
[13:44] <ali1234> that's pretty cool
[13:44] <bashrc> heh, that's is the menu doesn't go off the bottom of the screen :-)
[13:45] <czajkowski> one for the cat people on here http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/917888-father-gets-cute-kids-new-pet-after-facebook-cat-bet-backfires
[13:46] <ali1234> he should get 117 cats
[13:46] <directhex> popey, there's a common misconception on "steam for arch" or "steam for fedora"
[13:47] <directhex> what they mean is /usr/bin/steam repackaged for their distros. /usr/bin/steam is a totally barebones downloader, which downloads the actual Steam client to ~/Steam. the actual steam client only has one build right now (with support for more in steam.sh): ubuntu12_32
[13:47] <selinuxium> Suffering from a brain block... What is the server app that gives you a list of services to install?
[13:47] <directhex> doesn't help e.g. the lack of glibc 2.15 in debian (no steam)
[13:48] <popey> true...
[13:49] <directhex> there is only one trustworthy source of info on which games actually work, btw - mine :p
[13:49] <BigRedS> selinuxium: tasksel?
[13:49] <ali1234> so what AAA games work yet?
[13:50] <ali1234> (that aren't already on software center)
[13:50] <selinuxium> BigRedS, Cheer  :)
[13:51] <ali1234> and what is to stop debian packaging a sandboxed glibc 2.15 just for the purpose of running steam?
[13:52] <BigRedS> debian itself?
[13:52] <ali1234> well, whoever wants to do it really
[13:52] <BigRedS> selinuxium: haha, I didn't realise anybody still used it :)
[13:52] <czajkowski> directhex: oh if I could just point you at people who dont know the facts but talk about them like they do, my twitter stream would be quieter :)
[13:53] <popey> czajkowski, just link to this http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/12qs6z/steam_for_linux_its_here_deb_in_the_link/c6xf19p
[13:53] <popey> directhex, i still see dustforce, cave story+ and rochard in my steam
[13:53] <czajkowski> ahhh
[13:53] <directhex> ali1234, AAA refers to advertising budget, of course :)
[13:54] <czajkowski> never really look at reddit, but have had this conversation already with directhex and aquarius
[13:54] <ali1234> yes, ie "ones i might have heard of"
[13:54] <directhex> ali1234, but the closest to that description is Serious Sam 3, which had a high development budget
[13:54] <directhex> although short of AAA
[13:54] <ali1234> i didn't even know they made a 2
[13:54] <directhex> popey, probably related to the "FONV for Linux!" bug
[13:54] <popey> the what?
[13:54] <xnox> directhex: what's the "biggest" working title?
[13:54]  * xnox has not played any games for about 7 years now & i'd like to be impressed.
[13:55] <directhex> popey, the http://i.imgur.com/yeVUZ.png one
[13:55] <directhex> popey, library is a bit screwy since latest beta. new games added, some missing, makes no sense
[13:55] <popey> gotcha
[13:55] <popey> 20k/s :)
[13:55] <ali1234> xnox: probably psychonauts?
[13:55] <directhex> xnox, that you can get with beta bypass? SS3. real beta members have team fortress 2
[13:56] <popey> TF2 is taking an age to download
[13:56] <directhex> ali1234, has a library entry, but is not actually available for download right now (doesn't grab any files)
[13:56] <directhex> ali1234, may be in closed beta
[13:56] <directhex> games may be in their own betas, standalone from the steam beta itself
[13:56] <directhex> you can change beta enrollment via the Betas tab in a game's Properties
[13:57] <directhex> (may require a per-game passphrase)
[13:57] <ali1234> meeeeeeh
[13:57] <directhex> popey, it says 20k because i didn't tell it i had a fast connection (it assumes 56k by default, and the speed is a param you set at install time on windows)
[13:57] <popey> heh
[13:57] <selinuxium> BigRedS, Why not use it? :) i normally use cli but sometimes I like to use it if I am doing several servers at the same time so they are in sync..
[13:57] <directhex> ali1234, it's as if you haven't read http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/12qs6z/steam_for_linux_its_here_deb_in_the_link/c6xf19p !
[13:58] <selinuxium> BigRedS, Should arrange a beer soon... :)
[13:58] <selinuxium> AlanBell, Is there anything in the pipeline for an xmas meet?
[14:00] <AlanBell> yes, kind of
[14:00] <BigRedS> selinuxium: I've packages with the right dependencies 'cause tasksel's never *quite* right
[14:00] <BigRedS> ah yeah - just spoke to work and they're letting me move to London :)
[14:01] <popey> is that good?
[14:01] <BigRedS> I reckon it is
[14:02] <BigRedS> I've lived out of it for 2.5 years now, and still the longest time I've spent continuously not in London is four weeks, and that was eight years ago
[14:03] <selinuxium> BigRedS, great stuff! :)
[14:03] <bashrc> In London everything is expensive
[14:03]  * dwatkins agrees with bashrc
[14:04] <selinuxium> AlanBell, Kind of... Mysterious.. :)
[14:06] <BigRedS> yeah, but I think it's also better :)
[14:06] <BigRedS> admittedly, I am only comparing it to Darkest Cambridgeshire
[14:11] <directhex> why does ubuntu.com still recommend i386?
[14:11] <directhex> there are no processors on the market today that run ubuntu i386 but not ubuntu amd64
[14:11] <directhex> the only "active" product that can't is AMD Geode, which won't run i386 due to compiler flags
[14:13] <directhex> oh, no, i'm told the kernel emulates the missing instructions
[14:15] <BigRedS> I keep wondering that
[14:15] <BigRedS> Oh, wait, it's 686 I don't get
[14:16] <BigRedS> does Ubuntu have a 386, or are you doing what I do and equating all of them? :)
[14:16] <directhex> well, "i386" is the name of the arch in dpkg
[14:16] <BigRedS> Either way, I was surprised when the woman from Unity said that it worked on both 32 and 64 bit machines. I wondered why you'd bother with the former.
[14:16] <directhex> partly because changing i386 to i686 is hellishly hard in dpkg
[14:16] <ali1234> ubuntu wont' run even on 486
[14:17] <ali1234> and any "arch" above 486 is meaningless anyway
[14:17] <directhex> fine.
[14:17] <ali1234> there is no such thing as a standard i686 processor
[14:17] <directhex> ubuntu's apps are all built with compiler flags which means that instructions introduced with Pentium Pro may be emitted, those instructions are not found on amd geode, via c3, and a handful of others
[14:18] <directhex> ubuntu's kernels are built to emulate the missing instructions if needed
[14:19] <ali1234> the geode is of course considerably older than the newest CPUs that don't do 64 bit
[14:19] <Laney> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel/35163
[14:19] <directhex> the newest non-64-bit CPUs i can find are a subset of atoms from 2010
[14:20] <directhex> some 2010 atoms, and all 2011+ atoms, are 64-bit
[14:20] <directhex> all non-geode amd chips have been 64-bit for nearly a decade
[14:20] <BigRedS> is that 32-bit kernels or 32-bit hardware, though?
[14:21] <BigRedS> if everyone is told to use the 386 image, then it'll look like a lot of people are on 386s
[14:21] <ali1234> yeah so basically you're advocating dropping support for anything older than 3 years
[14:21] <directhex> "anything" is a massive exaggeration
[14:21] <BigRedS> for some things older than 3 years
[14:21] <directhex> "some netbooks" is more true
[14:21] <ali1234> why draw the line at CPUs?
[14:22] <ali1234> let's drop all drivers from the kernel for hardware over 3 years old
[14:22] <ali1234> sure would speed up builds
[14:22] <bashrc> That would rule out just about all of my hardware
[14:23] <BigRedS> I wasn't advocating dropping support for it
[14:24] <directhex> the last 32-bit desktop or laptop chip from Intel was in 2006, with Core 1 solo/duo
[14:24] <BigRedS> I just don't get why it'd be a feature. Especially since most people who play games would do so on non-esoteric hardware and, as such, by now probably have an amd64 chip
[14:24] <ali1234> released in 2006
[14:24] <BigRedS> But I don't really play games either, so it might just be me missing the point.
[14:24] <ali1234> so probably still available to buy in 2008
[14:24] <ali1234> and still shipping in OEM hardware in 2009
[14:25] <directhex> they started normalizing on 64-bit in 2005
[14:26] <ali1234> anyway that ML post explains rather well why 32 bit is still recommended
[14:27] <ali1234> if you need to ask that question then 32 bit is the safest answer
[14:27] <bashrc> my laptop and netbook are both 32bit
[14:28] <Laney> hardware
[14:28] <BigRedS> ah, cool :)
[14:29] <directhex> apparently Ubuntu Friendly is full of people using netbooks
[14:29] <ali1234> well yeah
[14:30] <ali1234> ubuntu is, after all, designed for netbooks
[14:30] <popey> s/netbooks/tablets/
[14:30] <ali1234> unity used to be called netbook remix
[14:30] <popey> http://unity3d.com/promo/unity4/
[14:31] <popey> no, unity used to be called netbook launcher
[14:31] <popey> netbook remix contained netbook launcher
[14:32] <ali1234> i've not seen any serious effort to make unity work on tablets yet... handing out tablets to developers doesn't count
[14:32] <ali1234> coming up with a sensible design for how it could work would be a start
[14:32] <czajkowski> ali1234: are you ever really happy with the work Ubuntu is doing to be fair?
[14:33] <ali1234> czajkowski: i was until about 2011
[14:33] <popey> yeah, I was kidding about tablets
[14:33] <ali1234> since then it's just getting worse every day
[14:33] <popey> its what everyone says about unity
[14:34] <ali1234> yeah those people obviously never used a tablet *or* unity
[14:34] <directhex> i liked netbook launcher
[14:34] <directhex> imho it got worse with every release
[14:34] <ali1234> "and now here we are"
[14:35] <popey> Dynamite Jack is quite fun
[14:35] <ali1234> is it like bomb jack?
[14:35] <popey> no
[14:35]  * popey also likes bomb jack
[14:36] <ali1234> lol. it's bomberman meets metal gear solid
[14:37] <ali1234> looks good
[14:39] <popey> yes, thats an accurate description
[14:39] <popey> makes me jump in the same way that MGS used to when they spot you
[14:40] <popey> holy cow TF2 is 12GB!
[14:40] <popey> yay 2nd SSD :)
[14:41] <gord> tf2 is a game from years ago + like 4 years of new game being added to it
[14:41] <gord> they had an awesome halloween event recently
[14:41] <directhex> yeah, what gord said
[14:41] <directhex> it was around 7G when it shipped, iirc
[14:41] <popey> TF2 aint gonna work on my x220 with i7 is it :)
[14:42] <directhex> also, the size of TF2 is related to the shared assets.
[14:42] <gord> works fine on the x220
[14:42] <gord> the x220 has a fairly good gpu
[14:42] <gord> http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=105849181
[14:42] <directhex> there are a bunch of multi-gig bundles of textures etc which are shared across all valve games
[14:42] <gord> it was a fun event
[14:44] <ali1234> popey: 11GB of hats, 1GB of game
[14:45] <popey> :)
[14:59] <Gargoyle> Am I understanding correctly, that if a sources.list file has .somethingelse on the end then it is disabled? (in this case .distUpgrade)
[15:08] <jacobw> Gargoyle: yes
[15:20] <BigRedS> popey: tf2 worksish on my X201 in windows
[15:21] <BigRedS> with a paltry i5 :(
[15:21] <popey> ooh, finished downloading
[15:36] <Azelphur> Is there a decent way for us UK people to do NFC payments on android yet
[15:36] <gord> i thought google wallet can use any credit card now
[15:36] <Gargoyle> Azelphur: Glue your nfc enabled card to the back of your phone?
[15:37] <Azelphur> Gargoyle: haha :p
[15:37] <gord> its just that there is no where that actually supports nfc
[15:37] <Azelphur> gord: dunno, I don't think you can even sign up for it
[15:37] <Azelphur> gord: all the post offices around here and mcdonalds support it, I'm a frequent flier at both places xD
[15:38] <AlanBell> selinuxium: we have an IRC meeting at 20:00 this evening
[15:38] <Gargoyle> Azelphur: Are you posting cheeseburgers to people? ;)
[15:38] <Azelphur> Gargoyle: totally! :P
[15:38] <Gargoyle> I must PM you my address then. There's nothing better than a cold cheeseburger in the post! ;)
[15:40] <Azelphur> gord: it looks like they changed google checkout into google wallet, I still can't get the app without some sneaky stuff, maybe I'll get the app and see what happens
[15:48] <neuro> hey all, jono is now a dad, make sure to pass on your congrats! https://twitter.com/jonobacon/status/268740372891582464
[15:49] <BigRedS> but he did the easy bit
[15:50] <neuro> i'd rather not think about that! :)
[15:51] <BigRedS> haha
[16:04] <theopensourcerer> popey: "Luckily, apps that have been downloaded for one user don't take up extra storage space when downloaded by a second user. According to Google's documentation, the tablet simulates downloading and installing the app, but doesn't actually keep a second copy of the APK file." >> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/hands-on-multiple-users-lock-screen-widgets-round-out-android-4-2
[16:15] <popey> on neat
[16:40] <X3N> popey: Where do I get the vp8 gstreamer encoder from?
[16:41] <X3N> ah maybe I need to enable universe
[16:42] <X3N> hmm nope
[16:43] <X3N> ah sorry was missing the plugins-bad
[16:47] <popey> X3N, did you find someone to help with that bug?
[16:48] <X3N> no, going to try and fix it now, probably just take the patch that's on ubuntu's version of gtk-recordmydesktop
[17:38] <awilkins> I am confused as to where to report problems in libwebkitgtk-1.0
[17:41] <popey> awilkins, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkit
[17:43] <Laney> ubuntu-bug libwebkitgtk-1.0-0
[17:45] <awilkins> Most frustrating. Getting SIGSEGV in libwebkitgtk-1.0 when Eclipse is using it as a brower control
[17:45]  * awilkins wonders if it does this to the main window not just the one you are debugging
[17:45]  * awilkins determines that it does as the internal web browser kills the IDE stone dead
[17:46] <awilkins> Hopefully I can snag a core dump
[17:49] <awilkins> Hmm. How can I make the core dump *useful* ; 1.8GB of raw dump is probably a bit much to upload to Launchpad
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: http://sourceware.org/gdb/download/onlinedocs/gdb/index.html ?
[17:49] <awilkins> TA
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: a full stack trace is what you want :)
[17:51] <MartijnVdS> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/StackTraces#Obtaining_a_stack_trace_from_a_core_dump
[17:59] <awilkins> I presume only the relevant thread is wanted...
[18:00] <awilkins> Shame there are about 30
[18:00] <awilkins> Oh, 45
[18:06] <awilkins> Debug symbols are big
[18:07]  * awilkins synapses are slowly dissolving in alcohol
[18:07] <Darael> Well, yes.  That would be why they're not installed by default.
[18:08] <Darael> Hey hey!  ICS update for my San Diego.  Finally!
[18:10] <Darael> I was getting more than a little tired of being stuck on Gingerbread on a relatively new phone.
[18:21] <awilkins> Nexus 4 : Good phone, or really annoying because it has no SD card slot...
[18:21] <mgdm> My last phone had an SD card slot (HTC Desire)
[18:21] <mgdm> I only used it once, to put a 16GB card in, and then never cared again
[18:23] <awilkins> Yeah, you could counter the whole "Hey, think that mounting them is a mess, and we hate the file permissions thing", etc, by just going "Install a card, once, and we'll format it for LVM and just make it part of the main volume group that we store everything on it
[18:23] <awilkins> "remove it or change it, and you'd better hope you had a backup"]
[18:23] <dwatkins> Very occasionally I need a MicroSD card and one isn't to hand, and once I've taken the one from my phone and used it, but I could have just walked to a shop and bought one instead.
[18:24] <dwatkins> To me it's a bit like the display - it's there, it works, it doesn't need upgrading.
[18:24] <awilkins> Bugger, I just made gdb coredump
[18:24] <awilkins> Is that bad?
[18:24] <ali1234> awilkins: that's basically exactly what windows phone does and everyone complained
[18:24] <mgdm> heh
[18:24] <dwatkins> is it like Inception, where you're coredumping whilst examining a corecump?
[18:24] <awilkins> Installed the JDK debug symbols. It didn't like it.
[18:24] <mgdm> ali1234: I've done that once or twice
[18:24] <mgdm> err, awilkins I mean
[18:26] <awilkins> "Little did the earthlings know, their entire universe was a debugging session running in the memory space of the UberLord, and soon, it would coredump"
[18:26] <popey> :)
[18:26] <mgdm> so deja vu is when they change something in the debugger?
[18:27] <awilkins> Or when they walk up the stack trace a bit and run the same code again
[18:27] <awilkins> (dunno if you can do this in gdb, you can do this in poncey debuggers like Java and .NET)
[18:28] <awilkins> So : can I allocate more resources to gdb, or should I just be content with not having the Java symbols available?
[18:29] <Darael> Hmm.  Orange additions are still ugly on ICS, but they're a lot prettier than the Gingerbread versions.
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> \o/ nexus phones
[18:29] <Darael> I'd like a nexus, but what can I say?  I'm a skint student.
[18:30] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, I wish I still had my Nexus One
[18:30]  * MartijnVdS strokes his Galaxy Nexus
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> my preciousss
[18:30] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: does it have a mluticoloured scroll button? ;)
[18:31] <dwatkins> *multicoloured
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: a multicoloured notification light
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: and only 3 buttons (vol+, vol-, power)
[18:31] <dwatkins> ah neat, the scroll function isn't as useful as the multicoloured aspect
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> after a week you don't miss the scrolling :)
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> my scroll ball didn't scroll up after a few months of use
[18:32] <dwatkins> indeed, I have an HTC Desire HD now
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> when I still had my N1
[18:32] <dwatkins> I now have to put up with red, green or amber notifications
[18:32] <dwatkins> it's such a hard life ;)
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: /r/firstworldproblems ;)
[18:33] <awilkins> Presumably you could have a full-colour notification LED if it had all three colours
[18:33] <mgdm> with alternate firmware you can change the colours
[18:33] <awilkins> Just flash them at different rates
[18:33] <mgdm> I know someone whose notifications are pink
[18:33] <dwatkins> exactly, MartijnVdS :)
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> also /r/firstworldanarchists
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> that one rocks :)
[18:34] <awilkins> My N900 has blue/ amber /green
[18:34] <awilkins> And white
[18:34] <awilkins> Hmm, I wonder if the hardware is capable of others
[19:04] <ali1234> awilkins: yes it is rgb
[19:05] <awilkins> THE NASTY ECLIPSE PROBLEM IS CONFUSING ME
[19:05] <awilkins> WAAH
[19:06] <awilkins> And what's with the eclipse build in Quantal being 3.8, the red-headed stepchild of eclipse builds no-one ever heard of
[19:11] <arsen> is it possible to secure SSH/SSL further to prevent sniffing/decryption?
[19:16] <BigRedS> do you have a specific attack in mind?
[19:16] <BigRedS> You could always stick it down another encrypted tunnel...
[19:17] <ali1234> use certificates
[19:17] <ali1234> swap certificates in person
[19:17] <ali1234> don't accept unknown certificates
[19:17] <ali1234> that's it
[19:17] <arsen> just looking at some firewall appliances that offer ssl/ssh decryption as a feature for monitoring traffic
[19:18] <arsen> wondering how difficult it is to bypass
[19:18] <ali1234> impossible
[19:18] <arsen> and how they go about doing it
[19:18] <BigRedS> oh, yeah
[19:18] <ali1234> they do a very obvious MITM attack on your connection
[19:18] <BigRedS> but if you have to go through that firewall, you can't have it not pretend to be the other end
[19:19] <ali1234> if you have to go through the firewall you either let them sniff the traffic, or you don't send it at all
[19:20] <arsen> well presumably that's how they capture it, but the decryption had me wondering how they do it
[19:21] <BigRedS> they pretend to be the other end
[19:21] <ali1234> they insert their own certificate in place of the server certificate
[19:21] <ali1234> then they get the server certificate
[19:21] <BigRedS> so they decrypt it the same way your intended destination does
[19:21] <ali1234> they get your data encrypted with their cert, decrypt it, encrypt it with the server cert, and send it to the server
[19:22] <ali1234> google man in the middle attack for details
[19:22] <ali1234> his is really obvious to spot btw when you get a cert like "my corporate firewall certificate" instead of "barclays plc" when you go to barclays website
[19:22] <ali1234> at least it is if you are even slightly paying attention
[19:25] <arsen> sure
[19:25] <arsen> but presumably you can block that i guess
[19:26] <ali1234> yeah
[19:26] <ali1234> just send certificates over a secure channel
[19:26] <ali1234> and don't accept invalid ones
[19:27] <ali1234> *might be tricky when you are dealing with websites due to certificate authority BS
[19:27] <ali1234> basically all the security of SSL comes from the way you decide which certificates you trust and which you don't
[19:28] <ali1234> if you leave that decision to certificate authorities you weaken your security
[19:28] <arsen> 5hm
[19:29] <arsen> well, primarly im talking about SSH
[19:29] <arsen> and typically i'd tunnel stuff over ssh
[19:29] <arsen> ill test the ssl thing though, would be interesting.
[19:30] <ali1234> ssh uses many of the same cryptographic systems as SSL
[19:30] <ali1234> that's why you get the certificate warning when the server key changes
[19:30] <arsen> sure
[19:30] <ali1234> with one of these firewall products you would see that warning
[19:30] <arsen> i was looking at websense initially but i looked at the palo alto one too
[19:30] <ali1234> this is exactly the scenario that features is designed to protect against
[19:31] <arsen> we're talking about them in the office, which is cool and all but not a fan of it picking up my tunneled online banking!
[19:45] <AlanBell> meeting in 15 minutes folks
[19:47] <BigRedS> blimey. forgot those happened
[19:49] <AlanBell> well they haven't been happening, so probably about time one did
[19:50] <BigRedS> ah, right. That'd explain it :)
[19:59] <AlanBell> meeting nowish
[20:09]  * AlanBell tickles czajkowski
[20:09] <czajkowski> oi
[20:09] <AlanBell> #ubuntu-uk-meeting
[20:10] <czajkowski> but but... so tired..
[20:10] <AlanBell> but going to talk about hack and talk and christmas parties and installfests and such
[20:49] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[20:51] <pr0ph3t> I just installed the current nvidia drivers from the ubuntu-x-swat PPA, but now nvidia daemons do no recognise my nvidia card?
[20:51] <pr0ph3t> oh my
[20:51] <pr0ph3t> I have an ALienware with OEM card, could that be the problem?
[21:13] <popey> bye bye bot
[21:20]  * SuperEngineer hears the bugler sounding out the last post for bot
[21:59]  * Laney stole some popey scripts
[21:59] <Laney> http://home.orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/
[21:59] <Laney> runs on the panda :3
[22:11] <popey> yay
[22:22] <Azelphur> hmm...the question is, Microsoft or Linux? http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/linux-detergent.jpg
[22:30] <AlanBell> raring ringtail https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fW1ozSkIEqk#!
[22:36] <dogmatic69> Been looking for a new house and started looking at Wales.
[22:36] <dogmatic69> Though roads would work the same there... http://i.imgur.com/76Vih.jpg


[02:05] <braiam> --help
[11:42] <jibel> new ubuntu desktop images posted to the tracker.
[12:28] <patdk-wk> still no iso's?
[12:57] <cjwatson> patdk-wk: they're rebuilding at the moment, you should see them gradually filtering onto the tracker
[12:57] <cjwatson> patdk-wk: any particular images you mean?
[12:57] <patdk-wk> just looking for the server images :)
[12:58] <patdk-wk> still sounds like there will be rebuilds of it yet though
[12:58] <cjwatson> it's in the queue
[12:58] <cjwatson> I'm guessing under an hour
[12:59] <patdk-wk> ok
[14:13] <patdk-wk> wee, updates iso's
[15:01] <charlie-tca> patdk-wk: looks like we have the new images
[15:01] <patdk-wk> ya, about 2 more min, till I'm done downloading
[15:01] <patdk-wk> unless you mean another new batch :)
[15:02] <patdk-wk> running out of time to test them today though :(
[15:02] <patdk-wk> have to head to new office and inspect the installation of new wiring
[15:02] <charlie-tca> The ones dated for 2011-10-11 is all I see. I guess not being at the release sprint means we have to tell each other when things are there now
[15:02] <patdk-wk> then headed down to the datacenter for a opening event
[15:02] <charlie-tca> Have fun
[15:02] <patdk-wk> iso's downloaded :)
[15:03] <patdk-wk> now just need an hour to test them all :)
[15:06] <charlie-tca> Mine are about two hours to download (zsync) and then just 10-12 hours to test
[15:06] <patdk-wk> mine take about 40min to download
[15:07] <patdk-wk> I do 3 tests, on server 64 and 32
[15:07] <patdk-wk> sometimes I'll do a 4th test if time permits
[15:07] <charlie-tca> And if I don't keep a close eye on either the server or the ISO tracker, I don't even know when they get killed again :(
[15:07] <patdk-wk> yep
[15:08] <patdk-wk> guess I have time now to start tests
[15:08] <patdk-wk> guess  Ishould start with the iscsi ones, as I wonder how well my new iscsi envroment works :)
[15:08] <patdk-wk> should make testing much much less painful, and save me 5min per test
[15:08] <patdk-wk> have full iscsi bios boot now :)
[15:19] <charlie-tca> I can't even start testing again until probably noon here now.
[15:21] <skaet> charlie-tca, we'll announce here in this channel, when a respin is going to be needed and why.
[15:23] <charlie-tca> Thank you, skaet
[15:23] <charlie-tca> at least the "we are respinning ???" would be great
[15:23] <charlie-tca> and then the "??? images are ready now" too, would be most helpful
[15:26] <skaet> charlie-tca,  will post here when I see we're respinning.   I'll be monitoring them emerging, but will be checking the iso tracker too, before they emerge.
[15:26] <skaet> s/before/as/
[15:26] <skaet> may miss a few on the iso tracker though, since multiplexing on many other fronts right now.
[15:28] <charlie-tca> Thank you. It just seems with most of Canonical there together, they leave out those of us in the Community side of things more and more.
[15:29] <skaet> charlie-tca, pitti, slangasek, aren't in milbank.  We're still distributed.   Colin just arrived this morning, and went into firefight mode.
[15:30] <skaet> courtesy of last night's regression.
[15:30] <charlie-tca> I apologize for the misconception here. I am just frustrated, I need 10-12 hours to get things tested properly, and I see respins happening so fast, I can't even get one test done
[15:31] <skaet> charlie-tca, I understand.   Its been a bit fustrating all around.
[15:33] <patdk-wk> heh, scared
[15:33] <patdk-wk> the iso is downloading 57 updated packages :)
[15:35] <charlie-tca> and that's the "new" image?
[15:35] <patdk-wk> yep
[15:36] <charlie-tca> yikes!
[15:46] <elopio> Hello testers.
[15:47] <Samsagax> hi there
[15:47] <elopio> I've installed oneiric on my laptop, and I see weird problems that I don't see on my netbook.
[15:47] <elopio> like, a grey top bar, and some invisible unity icons.
[15:47] <elopio> no sound indicator
[15:48] <elopio> no shut down indicator, or whatever it's called.
[15:49] <elopio> seems to be only my problem, but I don't know what's going on. I installed from today's iso. Can it be that I have some previous preferences that are messing it all?
[15:51] <charlie-tca> Did you grab the iso dated October 11, or October 10?
[15:55] <elopio> charlie-tca, october 11.
[15:55] <elopio> I synchronized it one hour ago.
[15:56] <charlie-tca> If you kept /home, it might have previous preferences.
[15:56] <jibel> elopio, and does it work from live cd ? Is it an upgrade or you wiped everything and did a fresh installation ?
[15:57] <elopio> charlie-tca, I kept /home
[15:57] <elopio> jibel, it works from live cd. And I wiped all my /, just kept /home
[15:57] <elopio> what previous preferences should I delete?
[16:52] <patdk-wk> damn network delay still exists, never got a moment to file a report about that :(
[16:56] <jibel> patdk-wk, is this bug 870214 ?
[16:56] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 870214 in open-iscsi (Ubuntu Oneiric) (and 4 other projects) "iSCSI root installation creates manual eth0 configuration + long boot (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/870214
[17:02] <patdk-wk> sounds like it
[17:02] <patdk-wk> I have to head to the datacenter now
[17:02] <patdk-wk> but will update the tracker when I get back
[17:02] <patdk-wk> and hopefully get the esxi tests run
[17:02] <patdk-wk> new iscsi setup here works nice :)
[17:25] <hggdh> jamespage: OK, ad-hoc run fine (meaning as usual)
[17:26] <jamespage> hggdh: do we still have the wrong region?
[17:26] <jamespage> ap-northwest-1
[17:26] <hggdh> jamespage: seems so
[17:26] <jamespage> or is is ap-northeast-1
[17:26] <jamespage> ah - it is - please can we update the config and re-run
[17:26] <jamespage> prior to the big one
[17:27] <hggdh> oops
[17:27] <hggdh> too late ;-)
[17:27] <jamespage> hggdh: oh well - its probably OK :-)
[17:28] <hggdh> but I updated the ad-hoc
[17:29] <hggdh> jamespage: and the big beast has the correct region
[17:29] <hggdh> also, after I updated it it got to be green -- perhaps an older run?
[17:29] <hggdh> yeah
[17:32] <jamespage> yes
[17:39] <elopio> I reported my problem with a screenshot on bug #872400
[17:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 872400 in ubuntu "many UI problems after installing oneiric (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872400
[17:47] <jamespage> hggdh: not looking to bad so far
[17:47] <jamespage> nothing actually related to the ami image itself - just general ec2 issue-ets
[17:47] <jamespage> hggdh: need to take a break - back in a bit
[17:48] <hggdh> k
[18:12] <patrickmw> stgraber, is edubuntu rebuilding due to an ltsp error?  tftp is unable to load pxelinux on 64bit for ubuntu.
[18:32] <jamespage> hggdh: ec2 testing looking OK
[18:33] <jamespage> one test is spinning - but it looks like an ec2 provisioning error
[18:33] <jamespage> will time out in a bit
[18:44] <hggdh> jamespage: finished, two errors reported
[20:03] <bdmurray> How do I figure out who added a bug to the iso testing tracker it so it was tagged iso-testing?
[20:05] <bdmurray> Okay now who is valix?
[21:51] <jibel> charlie-tca, I tested xubuntu alternate and it looks good, I didn't covered xubuntu desktop "resize partition"
[21:52] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[21:52] <charlie-tca> I am running the desktop images
[21:55] <charlie-tca> jibel: I forgot to re-write the screen-reader installation
[22:55] <cjwatson> chadadavis: are you around?  I could use a bit of live debugging on bug
[22:55] <cjwatson> 856826
[22:55] <cjwatson> bug 856826
[22:55] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 856826 in partman-base (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "'guided resize' partioning leaves Mac unbootable (affects: 1) (heat: 58)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856826
[22:56] <chadadavis> Hi cjwatson
[22:57] <chadadavis> I've got a system ready to be resized, if you can tell me what you're looking for.
[22:58] <cjwatson> well, actually, I want other stuff first
[22:58] <cjwatson> can you tell me what 'archdetect' in a terminal in a live session says?
[22:58] <chadadavis> amd64/generic
[22:59] <cjwatson> ok, excellent
[22:59] <cjwatson> that's the simplest kind of wrong
[22:59] <chadadavis> Should there be some Mac/GPT identifier in there somewhere?
[22:59] <cjwatson> yes
[23:00] <cjwatson> that actually doesn't directly matter, but it indicates that parted will be confused in the same way
[23:00] <chadadavis> Anyway I can fudge it and try it?
[23:00] <cjwatson> I'm typing instructions :)
[23:00] <chadadavis> But this is new behaviour. We didn't have this issue with Natty.
[23:00] <chadadavis> Great. Thanks.
[23:00] <cjwatson> yes yes
[23:00] <cjwatson> stop
[23:00] <cjwatson> :-)
[23:01] <cjwatson> I know why it's changed
[23:01] <cjwatson> the change was a bug fix but it has had a bad knock-on effect here
[23:01] <cjwatson> can you install libparted0debian1 from https://launchpad.net/~cjwatson/+archive/ppa and then try the resize install?
[23:02] <cjwatson> (there's a bunch of other random junk in that PPA, sorry)
[23:02] <cjwatson> also extremely tired, sorry if I'm being overly abrupt / not making sense
[23:03] <cjwatson> that parted change does better detection of whether it's on an Apple system that handles some EFI models better
[23:06] <chadadavis> cjwatson, OK, great. Got it. Anything else to note/log before I try it? It's on the way ...
[23:06] <cjwatson> no, I think that should be it, hopefully; I would like the sfdisk output as before though, whether it works or not
[23:07] <cjwatson> as well as regular syslog/partman
[23:07] <chadadavis> Right, will save all of that.
[23:07] <cjwatson> excellent, thank you
[23:07] <cjwatson> really appreciate this
[23:08] <cjwatson> but I think I have to crash now, seeing as I've been up for 19 hours :-/
[23:08] <chadadavis> No problem. Thank you for your help. Will add the logs to the bug report.


[02:27] <qwertuttyty> Same as the 5.4 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/kzCqrB233R/
[12:08] <lotuspsychje> vodiylik: 20.04 is still in development right now
[12:08] <lotuspsychje> vodiylik: meaning breakage & bugs are still possible, feel free to test to daily iso(s)
[12:09] <vodiylik> I mean final release for using in home computer
[12:10] <lotuspsychje> vodiylik: 20.04= april is final release
[12:11] <lotuspsychje> and reccomended to wait till first point release the LTS way, aka 20.04.1
[12:11] <vodiylik> Thank you :-)


[15:32] <pleia2> adding release announcement to fridge
[22:46] <pleia2> could use help collecting news this week, it's been a rough one for me
[22:47] <tsimonq2> pleia2: same here. weird day
[22:47] <tsimonq2> pleia2: I'll try later if I have the time, no promises
[22:47] <pleia2> have tomorrow too
[22:47] <tsimonq2> ok
[22:47] <pleia2> just wanted to throw that out there as early as I could
[22:47] <tsimonq2> :)


[05:28] <mup> Issue operator#585 opened: default value for a config item does not work <Created by sed-i> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/585>
[14:08] <mup> PR operator#581 closed: Fix desynch of charm model on Harness.remove_relation <Created by mmanciop> <Merged by rbarry82> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/581>
[14:08] <mup> PR operator#584 closed: add note for calling before relation_created <Created by sed-i> <Closed by rbarry82> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/584>


[15:51] <ashams> thelinuxer, why we need to decide who can be nominated and who can not? I think this is the reason for a First Council idea, right?
[15:52] <thelinuxer> ashams: hey shams
[15:52] <ashams> thelinuxer, hey ya man
[15:52] <ashams> h r u?
[15:53] <thelinuxer> ashams: fine :)
[15:53] <thelinuxer> of course we need to decide
[15:53] <thelinuxer> ana mesh fahem awi el so2al
[15:53] <ashams> lol
[15:54] <ashams> why we can't just make open for anyone to nominate him/herself
[15:54] <thelinuxer> so we can have a council member who never did anything in the team ?
[15:55] <ashams> confusing
[15:55] <thelinuxer> what's confusing ?
[15:55] <ashams> newcomers won't dare t o nominate themselves
[15:56] <thelinuxer> and y should we count on this ? i guess nominees can only be from the current team members
[15:56] <ashams> meritocracy is a high importance
[15:56] <thelinuxer> current approved team members
[15:56] <thelinuxer> yes of course bas we should protect ourselves against sabotage
[15:58] <ashams> right
[15:58] <thelinuxer> hence we need to provide basic rules for nominations
[15:58] <thelinuxer> bas keda
[15:59] <ashams> yes, but approval is open for any one, team is open to join
[15:59] <thelinuxer> exactly
[15:59] <ashams> this won't help prevent sabotage
[15:59] <thelinuxer> it will help
[15:59] <thelinuxer> council will approve members
[16:00] <thelinuxer> then these members can nominate themselves
[16:00] <ashams> that's exactly what I want to avoid
[16:00] <ashams> ppl will feel like governed by no clear rules
[16:00] <thelinuxer> not necessarily
[16:01] <ashams> any ideas about how to decide who can be approved and who can not
[16:01] <thelinuxer> look what we are trying to achieve is getting the team more organized
[16:01] <ashams> right
[16:02] <ashams> just needs to be clear rules
[16:02] <thelinuxer> ideas about how to approve ...
[16:02] <ashams> how ppl gain the right to nominate themselves
[16:02] <thelinuxer> gaining the right is simply by becoming approved ...
[16:03] <ashams> lol
[16:03] <ashams> and how can they be approved
[16:03] <thelinuxer> becoming approved may have the same rules like ubuntu official membership
[16:03] <ashams> by joining
[16:03] <thelinuxer> that's for starters
[16:03] <ashams> aha now I started to understand
[16:04] <ashams> I think there should be 2 levels of joining
[16:04] <ashams> approved and non-approved
[16:04] <thelinuxer> exactly
[16:05] <ashams> so do you have ideas of conditions for approving ppl?
[16:06] <thelinuxer> sustainable effort in the team
[16:07] <ashams> won't this split the team
[16:07] <thelinuxer> like joining a certain subteam (mansoura team or graphics  teamfor example)
[16:07] <thelinuxer> split ezay ?
[16:08] <ashams> I mean being approved not like being non-
[16:08] <thelinuxer> don't call it unapproved
[16:08] <thelinuxer> call it approval in progress :D
[16:09] <ashams> lol
[16:09] <ashams> nominate yourself for the next elections :P
[16:09] <ashams> in ppls assemply
[16:10] <seif> what r u guys talking about
[16:10] <ashams> seif,  wenta malak ?
[16:11] <ashams> :P
[16:11] <seif> again what r u talking about
[16:11] <seif> ?
[16:11] <thelinuxer> a proposal to have a council for the team
[16:11] <ashams> again, Wenta malak ?
[16:11] <ashams> again :P
[16:11] <seif> ashams, it wasnt funny the first time its not funny the second time
[16:12] <ashams> it is funny funny from here though
[16:12] <seif> as a public irc channel for ppl wanting to join u should try to be more helpful than giving me a hard time to figure something out :)
[16:12] <seif> good for you that you laugh on your own jokes
[16:12] <seif> thelinuxer, u need a council for the team to be an approved loco right?
[16:12] <ashams> :D
[16:13] <thelinuxer> seif: malak grumpy keda leeh he was just kidding
[16:13] <ashams> bad mood
[16:13] <seif> thelinuxer, i am usually straight ot the point guy :)
[16:13] <thelinuxer> seif: no we don't "need" it, it's just something to help us get organized
[16:14] <seif> thelinuxer, very good idea
[16:14] <seif> reading the backlog now
[16:14] <seif> thelinuxer, define <thelinuxer> sustainable effort in the team
[16:14] <ashams> enjoy
[16:15] <thelinuxer> the same thing as it is with the current ubuntu membership process
[16:15] <thelinuxer> we will need to define it even more for our specific case
[16:15] <thelinuxer> this is just a guideline
[16:16] <seif> thelinuxer, i recommend not copying the ubuntu guidelines that much
[16:16] <seif> ubuntu membership does not require you to be active in the ubuntu community
[16:16] <seif> where areas a loco team would require you to be like that
[16:18] <thelinuxer> can u please clarify the last 2 sentences. I don't get it
[16:19] <thelinuxer> seif: first, we will need to define our own rules as I said. Sustainable effort in the team seems reasonable. To be part of the team you have to do something for the team. (We can still discuss this point)
[16:20] <ashams> it can be done throgh history of careers in the team
[16:20] <thelinuxer> history of careers ?
[16:20] <ashams> like support, graphics or so
[16:20] <seif> e.g: some1 like me shouldnt really be an ubuntu-eg loco member :)
[16:20] <seif> i shouldnt get a vote
[16:20] <ashams> exactly
[16:20] <seif> because i dont contribute to the team
[16:21] <seif> although i am an ubuntu member and i get to vote in ubuntu
[16:21] <thelinuxer> seif: so we need to define what contribution is
[16:22] <seif> thelinuxer, exactly
[16:22] <seif> technical contirbution to ubuntu is not technical contirbution to the loco team
[16:22] <thelinuxer> asl it seems reasonable that people working in the team should shape the future of team
[16:22] <seif> excatly
[16:22] <ashams> thelinuxer, I meant, sub-teams, each specialized in something like support team or graphics one
[16:23] <seif> ashams, that is a good idea
[16:23] <seif> but those teams would normally consists out of 2 or 3 ppl
[16:24] <ashams> not our problem as long as it's open for everyone to join
[16:24] <ashams> and only meritocracy governs
[16:25] <seif> yep
[16:25] <seif> just make sure ppl dont "hold" to a position
[16:25] <seif> and be open to let others contirbute
[16:25] <thelinuxer> i guess we agree on almost all the points
[16:25] <ashams> ppl want to join support team, give some support on forums, irc, etc, then prepare application and go for approval to join such focus group
[16:25] <seif> thelinuxer, yep
[16:25] <thelinuxer> the idea behind this is to make things more clear for people to join
[16:25] <seif> ashams, i think it should be more informal
[16:25] <thelinuxer> and have somewhat structured teams
[16:26] <seif> else u take the fun out of it
[16:26] <seif> ubuntu is about having fun
[16:26] <seif> when somethign gets too organized its not much fun
[16:26] <ashams> yeah
[16:26] <seif> i would reocmmend the gnome process over the ubutnu process
[16:26] <thelinuxer> ashams: nope, people can join instantly as long as they can do the job
[16:26] <thelinuxer> approval is needed later.
[16:26] <thelinuxer> seif: tell us the gnome process
[16:27] <seif> thelinuxer, u apply for gnome membership stating things you have done for gnome and adding to referneces to vouch for you work
[16:27] <seif> these 2 references are the questioned
[16:27] <seif> and if they say that your good then u r a gnom emember
[16:27] <seif> :)
[16:27] <thelinuxer> how's that different from the ubuntu membership process ?
[16:28] <seif> no public voting
[16:28] <seif> when u apply u dont have to set up ur wiki for ppl to write statements
[16:28] <seif> but rather do it in private
[16:29] <seif> u send out a formula to gnome-membership with 2 references of already existing gnome members
[16:29] <seif> those are than contacted by the admin to approve the "vouching"
[16:29] <seif> when done its done
[16:29] <ashams> seif, this can involve a lot of "wasta" in here, though I like it :D
[16:29] <thelinuxer> ah ok like the debian-maintainer process
[16:29] <seif> ashams, very true :)
[16:30] <thelinuxer> seif: I guess having things private is not a real privilege
[16:31] <seif> thelinuxer, problem is sometimes grudges are there
[16:31] <ashams> ouch!
[16:31] <seif> example if i werent a gnome member now and would have applied this week with a process liek ubuntu i wouldnt be accepted
[16:31] <seif> because some RH ppl dont like me
[16:32] <thelinuxer> gnome process uses the chain of trust theory
[16:32] <seif> while the gnome process allows curroption the ubuntu process is subject to "discriminatin"
[16:32] <thelinuxer> of 2 members already say ur good then u have to be good
[16:32] <thelinuxer> if*
[16:33] <seif> lets say we are the voting process in ubuntu-members
[16:33] <thelinuxer> while the other process allows you to get membership without knowing anyone involved in the process
[16:33] <seif> and me and ashams dont like X who just applied for membershio
[16:33] <seif> we can acknowldege his wokr but we htink he is a cancer and he will cause harm i nthe community
[16:33] <seif> just because we feel threatend by him
[16:34]  * ashams smells bureaucracy
[16:34] <thelinuxer> yes it can happen
[16:34] <thelinuxer> but i don't feel it will be a real threat
[16:34] <seif> trust me it is
[16:34] <seif> :)
[16:34] <seif> i am in gnome, ubuntu, elementary and kde
[16:34] <thelinuxer> it depends on how we choose our council
[16:34] <seif> i am in the council of elementary
[16:35] <seif> things can get very biased sometimes when accepting new ppl
[16:35] <thelinuxer> i guess the rejection needs to be followed by reasons and guidance to get accepted
[16:37] <ashams> get accepted by who?
[16:37] <thelinuxer> a council
[16:37] <thelinuxer> IMO I guess a public/transparent process will protect the community more than a private one
[16:37] <thelinuxer> specially eno fe3lan el wasta 3andena 7atel3ab awi
[16:37] <seif> i like the idea of a councilo
[16:37] <seif> but the council should not approve/disapprove ppl
[16:38] <seif> the council is for moderating and manmanging the team
[16:38] <ashams> yeah
[16:38] <seif> for membership we should use the gnome process
[16:38] <ashams> so should wehave some another body
[16:38] <seif> some1 wants to apply he send in a letter with 2 names form team who can vouc hfor them
[16:38] <seif> s/them/him
[16:39] <seif> ashams, no need really
[16:39] <seif> one or 2 ppl in the loco team should be repsonsible for moderaint g new membership requests
[16:39] <seif> by receicing them
[16:39] <seif> getting the vouches
[16:39] <seif> then accepting or rejecting
[16:40] <ashams> i prefer if it's more open
[16:40] <seif> ashams, open in terms of transparent ?
[16:40] <ashams> like anyone can share judging the candidate
[16:40] <seif> ofcourse when some1 vouches for or against you you are also cced with the reply
[16:41] <seif> ashams, i dont want be judged by you
[16:41] <seif> that is not fair
[16:41] <ashams> right
[16:41] <seif> i want to pick those who can judge me best
[16:41] <ashams> so you'll ask the whole team to say what they think
[16:41] <seif> no
[16:41] <seif> because u could influence them
[16:41] <seif> :)
[16:42] <thelinuxer> i guess we will go in loops here
[16:42] <thelinuxer> we have the ubuntu process and the gnome process
[16:43] <seif> thelinuxer, ubuntu process is very humiliating if you are rejected in public
[16:43] <seif> and also very weird if u get rejected behind closed doors without knowing why
[16:43] <ashams> seif, don't u think that this will leave some hole for wasta, and on the long run can cause some persons join only coz they know some1 inside
[16:43] <seif> ashams, so?
[16:43] <seif> thsoe ppl will then leave at some point
[16:44] <seif> most of them dont hang around for long
[16:44] <thelinuxer> seif: ur only problem is rejection
[16:44] <seif> as u said its a meritocracy
[16:44] <thelinuxer> people get rejected because they didn't do enough work
[16:44] <seif> its like a german saying
[16:44] <thelinuxer> from the council perspective
[16:45] <seif> if u audition for a porn movie and get rejected you dont want the ppl t know publicly u got rejected for your small dick
[16:45] <seif> lol
[16:45] <thelinuxer> looooooool
[16:45] <ashams> ROFL
[16:45] <thelinuxer> i will have to kick you for using such words :D
[16:45] <seif> that is my only  concern wiht the voting process in ubuntu
[16:45] <thelinuxer> bos
[16:45] <thelinuxer> i don't think it's that big of a deal
[16:46] <seif> its not
[16:46] <seif> i am good either way which pricess u guys choose
[16:46] <seif> i ma just telling you hwat options are there
[16:46] <thelinuxer> we can put a rule like "Don't apply for membership unless you have joined the team for X month"
[16:46] <ashams> great
[16:46] <thelinuxer> in these X month you have to show bla bla
[16:46] <seif> thelinuxer, how do u define "X month"
[16:46] <ashams> and that team leader should be a referance
[16:46] <thelinuxer> trial and error
[16:47] <thelinuxer> make it 3 month el awel and see if it's good enough and re adjust and so on
[16:47] <thelinuxer> we need active team members
[16:47] <seif> thelinuxer, i have a counter proposal
[16:47] <seif> ....
[16:47] <thelinuxer> and we need to know what they are actually doing
[16:47] <seif> we have a membership commitee
[16:47] <thelinuxer> go on ..
[16:47] <seif> a person wants to join the team
[16:48] <seif> he writes a propsoal with his "work for the team" and his references
[16:48] <seif> the references are contacted by the memberhisp committee to approve  or disapprove the vouching
[16:49] <seif> if approved the committee gets to review the proposal again for any last rejections if they feel the person is coming in wasta
[16:49] <ashams> nice
[16:50] <thelinuxer> seif: fine I guess
[16:50] <seif> :)
[16:50] <thelinuxer> and more of less this is what's going to happen
[16:51] <seif> ok cool
[16:51] <thelinuxer> we are a small team, people  will get advise of other team members before applying officially
[16:51] <seif> exactly
[16:51] <seif> so i need advice :)
[16:51] <thelinuxer> masalan people always ask me if they can apply for ubuntu membership delwa2ty walla la2 (zay makoon ana sa7eb el council :D )
[16:51] <seif> problem is i dont live in egypt
[16:51] <seif> :P
[16:51] <thelinuxer> actually this is one of the things we need to improve
[16:51] <thelinuxer> our online activity
[16:52] <seif> yeah
[16:52] <seif> a forum would be awesome
[16:52] <thelinuxer> for distant members to be able to join in
[16:52] <ashams> yeeeeeeeeeeeees
[16:52] <thelinuxer> we have a forum(a dead one)
[16:52] <thelinuxer> people use facebook awi ba2a ...
[16:52] <seif> gnome doesnt have a forum or real facebook page where the mmebrs tlak
[16:52] <seif> its mostly irc and mailing lists
[16:53] <ashams> can we ask members to subscribe to the forum so it revives
[16:53] <thelinuxer> well it's kind of a cultural thing
[16:53] <ashams> maybe redirect support requests to forum from fb too
[16:53] <thelinuxer> ashams: i actually can't find use for the forums, we get almost all questions on facebook
[16:54] <thelinuxer> y bother ourselves with another channel
[16:54] <thelinuxer> i really need to run now
[16:54] <ashams> we can tell ppl to go to forums, shut that on fb and keep open only on forums
[16:54] <thelinuxer> i guess we will have to redirect this talk to the mailing list to get it started ba2a
[16:54] <ashams> yeah
[16:55] <thelinuxer> ashams: y ? people would just run away from us like this
[16:55] <ashams> disadvantage :)
[16:55] <thelinuxer> tayeb I will try to call u tomorrow ba2a to finalize stuff then forward everything to the mailing list
[16:55] <thelinuxer> bye guys
[16:56] <ashams> seif haydrabni
[16:56] <ashams> :P
[16:56] <thelinuxer> seif: balash tedrabo lama amshy :D
[16:56] <thelinuxer> salam ba2a
[16:57] <seif> bye bye
[16:57] <seif> :)
[16:57]  * seif  hits ashams with a stick
[16:57] <ashams> Ouch!
[16:57] <ashams> seif, btw: we don't say 2a7a with "2" we just say a7a
[16:58] <ashams> brb
[17:01] <seif> i am old school


[01:32] <Sarvatt> RAOF: do tell, whats needed for making wine work?
[01:32] <Sarvatt> i havent even considered upgrading to precise because of it
[01:32] <Sarvatt> figured it's going to be a few months
[01:33] <RAOF> Equivs up an empty ia32-libs-multiarch package, then install i386 versions of everything that it depends on that's installable.
[01:33] <RAOF> You miss out on things like Qt and gstreamer, but they're not actually important for the wine use-case.
[01:33] <Sarvatt> sweet, thats all i care about
[01:33] <Sarvatt> screw skype :)
[01:46] <Sarvatt> ivb on 11.10 is proving exceptionally fun, up to 7 kernel cherry-picks that are needed now just from changes in the last week. they broke the world with a bios update, so much for the livecd working when its released :)
[01:46] <RAOF> Another bios update, or the same one that broke the world previously? :)
[01:46] <Sarvatt> oh its the same but we keep finding new issues with it
[01:46] <Sarvatt> mid october update
[01:48] <Sarvatt> s3/s4 is still completely broken, managed to get i915 to actually load and found that out
[01:48] <Sarvatt> oh hey ivb works, but you cant close the lid because gnome decided that should suspend by default
[01:50] <RAOF> In other S3 news, nvidia doesn't seem to suspend on 3.2 on nvd9 :)
[01:50] <Sarvatt> t420s!
[01:50] <Sarvatt> lol
[01:50] <RAOF> On the plus side, 3.2's nouveau actually drives a nvd9
[01:50] <Sarvatt> sad i can make the codename to the private bug
[01:50] <RAOF> Heh.
[01:51] <Sarvatt> oh really? without overriding the firmware?
[01:51] <Sarvatt> we ship it all as nvidia only, you can pass a kernel command line arguement to make it think you're on windows xp instead of windows vista/7 and it wont even try to enable optimus because that doesnt work on xp
[01:52] <Sarvatt> acpi_osi=!windows2009 or something like that
[01:53] <Sarvatt> people were complaiing about broken nvd9 not long ago in #nouveau
[01:53] <Sarvatt> guess they werent using the latest stuff
[01:58] <RAOF> Oh, there's no *acceleration* without an mmiotrace'd context program.
[01:58] <RAOF> But it brings up the card and does XRandR, as long as you don't particularly feel like using the displayport :)
[01:59] <Sarvatt> oh really? even though the displayport is physically routed to the nvidia gpu?
[01:59] <RAOF> Yup.
[02:00] <RAOF> I presume that installing the nvidia driver will cause the DP to get working, but nouveau doesn't realise that anything's plugged in.
[02:41] <Sarvatt> yay https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/892799
[02:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 892799 in ia32-libs (Ubuntu) "[xorg-edgers] 32bit OpenGL applications fail to load i965_dri.so (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Fix released]
[02:41] <Sarvatt> time for a drink
[02:43] <RAOF> Woot!
[02:44] <Sarvatt> is that worth fixing in oneiric?
[02:45] <Sarvatt> the problem is, everything 32 bit on amd64 is using libdrm from ia32-libs instead of the multiarch one
[02:45] <Sarvatt> (in oneiric)
[02:45] <Sarvatt> mesa is using the :i386 one, but it'll still use the ia32-libs libdrm
[02:46] <RAOF> Hm.  Maybe.
[02:46] <Sarvatt> figure i'll care more if i SRU libdrm to oneiric, since 32 bit apps will be using the non-SRUed libdrm
[02:46] <Sarvatt> but there hasn't been anything worth SRUing in libdrm for oneiric yet
[02:49] <Sarvatt> high probabilty if there's a libdrm SRU to oneiric I'll be the one doing it and will poke slangasek/YokoZar, I've been doing craploads of SRUs :P it kinda screws other people doing mesa updates via PPAs though like that oibaf guy
[02:50] <Sarvatt> there's really no need for mesa/libdrm in ia32-libs at this point that i can see, was made multiarch installable when libpciaccess0 was multiarched at the last minute and added to ia32-libs-multiarch
[02:52]  * Sarvatt really needs to get upload permissions to upload this crap himself and not ask other people to upload crazy 580mb source package updates for this trivial stuff
[16:18] <Sarvatt> ricotz: http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/BLH3500-Manual_EN.pdf
[16:18] <Sarvatt> ricotz: go to page 9
[16:18] <Sarvatt> screwed up with cairo in edgers
[16:21] <ricotz> Sarvatt, nice ;)
[16:29] <ricotz> Sarvatt, chris is probably interested in a cairo-trace of this
[16:31] <Sarvatt> ricotz: yeah pinged chris about it, he added the assert its dying on recently
[16:32] <ricotz> Sarvatt, alright, so he is probably on it already
[16:33] <ricotz> Sarvatt, so is it flying? :P
[16:34] <Sarvatt> dunno he hasn't responded yet, someone in #intel-gfx just pointed out that crash with edgers
[16:34] <Sarvatt> ricotz: you see all the ia32-libs crap recently?
[16:35] <ricotz> Sarvatt, ah, ok, i meant the helicopter ;) -- i was thinking you discovered it
[16:35] <Sarvatt> 32 bit dri on intel wasn't working with edgers
[16:35] <Sarvatt> oh haha i didn't even look at it, just made it crash
[16:36] <ricotz> i saw you uploaded ia32-libs, good
[16:37] <ricotz> shouldnt this go into oneiric-proposed too?
[17:02] <Sarvatt> ricotz: fixed already :P
[17:10] <Sarvatt> ricotz: might want to hold off though, he thinks there might be another bug
[17:11] <Sarvatt> unless its not a PITA to update it again tomorrow
[17:11] <Sarvatt> cairo packages were a PITA last time i did them :P
[17:11] <Sarvatt> oh they use dh-autoreconf now dont they \o/
[17:16] <ricotz> Sarvatt, it isnt much of a problem updating them, unless he commits another fix within the next hours ;)
[17:19] <Sarvatt> he usually does
[17:19] <ricotz> nvm, it is on its way