[00:18] <racarr> Derp! I was using
[00:18] <racarr> sequenced expectations to wake up a series of wait conditions
[00:18] <racarr> but didn't actually sequence the expectations
[00:19] <racarr> Got a free bonus from this derp of spending a good hour reading InputDispatcher.cpp *facepalm*
[00:27] <RAOF> Whoops!
[00:30] <racarr> Any opinions on https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/rebuild-input-focus-selection/+merge/158505 ?
[00:38] <RAOF> racarr: Looks OK to me.
[00:41] <racarr> RAOF: Ok. Thanks :) Once I finish my branch (needs a few fixes...but after 11 hours it is...not computer time) will switch this one to approved if no one finds anything
[08:18] <alan_g> duflu: could you re-review https://code.launchpad.net/~kdub/mir/fix-shutdown-bug/+merge/158710 - thanks
[08:20] <duflu> alan_g: Done. Sorry but I've obviously been busy with my own branches today
[08:21] <alan_g> duflu: np - was an easy one to clear
[08:22] <duflu> Wow, gcc is so bad at error messages. I just spent 10 minutes trying to decipher various errors. None of which told me the truth -- missing closing parenthesis
[08:23] <duflu> Almost switched to clang
[08:24] <alf_> duflu: I've heard that g++-4.8 has improved error messages a lot
[08:24] <alan_g> alf_: I've heard that too. (From one of the developers. ;)
[08:45] <alan_g> Actually, thinking about it - from one of the *library* developers, so that's more convincing.
[09:07] <alf_> alan_g: Regardless of how much it has improved, at least (and at last) there is some interest in it... the benefits of competition :)
[09:08] <alf_> alan_g: a.k.a. why even wayland supporters should be excited about Mir ;)
[09:11] <alan_g> alf_: I don't think the mir protocol is in the same solution space as Wayland.
[09:14] <alf_> alan_g: Perhaps not, but they are *conceived* as being competing technologies, and that's enough to drive competition.
[09:37] <duflu> alan_g: Could you please ignore my branches for the next hour or two. Otherwise my day will never end :)
[09:38] <alan_g> duflu: Sure.  Alternatively, you could also ignore my comments for the next hour or two. ;)
[09:38] <duflu> alan_g: Yeah I normally close my email for the last hour or so of the day. Just missed the cut-foff
[09:38] <duflu> cut-off
[10:09] <alan_g> kgunn: Good morning
[15:05] <kdub> good morning! status, bumped our scripts to raring, trying to think of a way to ease reviewing my display branch, and working on getting galaxy nexus to look nice again
[15:12] <alf_> status: working on vt switching communications management, currently blocked on improving our test infrastructure so I can perform needed tests
[15:14] <alf_> kdub: alan_g: racarr: It seems that all this time our display server test process (launch_server_process(...)) didn't exit() after the server finished. I am trying to make it exit(), but it seems a lot of tests depend on the broken behavior in some way or another.
[15:15] <alan_g> alf_: "this time"?
[15:16] <alan_g> alf_: "all this time"?
[15:18] <alf_> kdub: alan_g: racarr: I mean "since the beginning" :)
[15:21] <alan_g> alf_: I find that hard to believe - I occasionally saw zombi server processes near the beginning, but AFAIK that got fixed.
[15:21] <alan_g> alf_: What makes you think it isn't exiting?
[15:25] <alf_> alan_g: There is no exit() after the server finishes, so after finishing, the server process continues executing into the test code. In tests up to now this wasn't visible because we let the test infrastructure kill the server process after the test. However, in a test I am working on, the server is terminated during the test and all of this becomes apparent.
[15:26]  * alan_g looks
[15:27] <kdub> hmm
[15:28] <alan_g> alf_: why doesn't it exit in tear_down_clients()?
[15:33] <alan_g> alf_: I guess you meant: "all this time the server exited in tear_down_clients() - not in launch_server_process() where I'd now like it to".
[15:34] <alf_> alan_g: s/tear_down_clients/tear_down_server/?
[15:36] <alan_g> alf_: I'm still not following
[15:37] <alf_> alan_g: kdub: hangout?
[15:37] <alan_g> Was just about to suggest it
[15:37] <kdub> sure
[15:37] <alf_> alan_g: kdub: creating one
[15:39] <alf_> alan_g: kdub: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/ba672682fda0c13019ca0531e91417dc0ce83b39?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:16] <racarr> Morning
[16:34] <kdub> hello racarr
[16:37] <racarr> Hey :)
[17:57] <racarr> ugh
[17:57] <racarr> was finally ready to propose my new input dispatcher controller stuff and
[17:57] <racarr> realized I based it off ease-shell-configuration
[17:57] <racarr> because it required changing session manager arguments
[18:11] <racarr> only 12 conflicts to remove it!
[18:39] <kgunn> tvoss: can you sanity check my whiteboard entry on this bp ?
[18:39] <kgunn> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-unity-ui-windowmanager
[18:40] <tvoss> kgunn, tomorrow fine with you?
[18:40] <kgunn> sure :)
[18:40] <tvoss> kgunn, cool, thx
[19:42] <racarr> https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/reflow-input-focus-selection/+merge/159225 new DispatcherController :)
[19:42] <racarr> couldn't get bzr to cooperate so had to manually back out ease-shell-configuration
[19:43]  * mlankhorst couldn't get bzr to work, at all, now using git-bzr :)
[20:08] <thomi> morning
[20:25] <racarr> MORNING!
[20:25] <racarr> *descends in to hunger psychosis as lunch becomes later and later...*
[20:28] <racarr> ah phew its here
[21:56] <kgunn> robert_ancell: i'd love to make the team meeting...but had another 5am start.
[21:56] <robert_ancell> kgunn, fair enough!
[21:57] <kgunn> i'll be on later during baseball practice....gonna go eat right now


[06:51] <superm1> where are the translation files stored for people who wanted to help translate?
[06:51] <superm1> i was poking around launchpad and not coming to them
[09:16] <cjwatson> superm1: they're under /ubuntu/hardy/+source/debian-installer
[09:53] <xivulon> I took the liberty to add debug boot parameter to /etc/init.d/ubiquity
[09:53] <xivulon> hope it's ok
[09:53] <xivulon> discussed that with evand a couple of days ago'
[10:08] <soren> cjwatson: Can you give me a hint? (I think) I need to add _netdev to the fstab options of any iscsi mount point (and add a bit of code to mountall.sh to match it, but never mind that for now)... Which d-i component should I be looking at?
[10:12] <cjwatson> soren: anything that ships /lib/partman/fstab.d
[10:13] <cjwatson> though I guess you don't want to change all of them individually!
[10:13] <cjwatson> soren: partman-target/finish.d/fstab_hd_entries is probably the place to start
[10:27]  * soren looks
[10:28] <soren> cjwatson: I'm not sure I understand what you mean by changing them individually? I'm not going to involve the user in this, I hope.
[10:28] <soren> cjwatson: Oh.
[10:28] <soren> cjwatson: I get it.
[10:28] <cjwatson> I should possibly have investigated first rather than doing stream-of-consciousness
[10:29] <soren> No worries :)
[10:30]  * soren taps his finger while bzr finishes fetching partman-target
[10:45] <soren> Ah, right, networking is brought up by udev these days! So if I just start open-iscsi before mountall, I'll probably be fine.
[10:45]  * soren tests it
[10:49] <soren> \o/
[11:05] <tjaalton> new kernel is out, perhaps a time to roll out a new d-i as well?
[11:08]  * soren seconds that wish
[11:09] <tjaalton> whizzbang features for the masses! :)
[11:09] <soren> cjwatson: I'm assuming apt-install won't let me install universe packages?
[11:09] <soren> tjaalton: Yeah, virtio ftw!
[11:09] <tjaalton> :P
[11:12] <cjwatson> soren: hmm, I think probably not
[11:18] <CIA-24> debian-installer: cjwatson * r874 ubuntu/ (10 files in 4 dirs): * Move to 2.6.24-7 kernels.
[11:18] <tjaalton> whee
[11:23] <soren> cjwatson: Ok, that's good.
[11:23] <soren> cjwatson: Because then I have an explanation for my final iscsi related problem.
[11:32] <CIA-24> debian-installer: cjwatson * r875 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20070308ubuntu28
[11:32] <cjwatson> soren: are you installing from CD?
[11:32] <cjwatson> soren: I think if you install from netboot (possibly netboot mini.iso) it'll let you use universe
[11:32] <soren> cjwatson: I'm using the mini.iso, actually.
[11:33] <cjwatson> soren: or you could add universe to /cdrom/.disk/base_components
[11:33] <cjwatson> that's a little odd then, not sure
[11:33] <soren> I'll check and see what's up.
[11:36] <t105> hello ... has anybody a clue with that one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/37527
[11:36] <t105> i'm having that during net install from the mini-iso
[11:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 37527 in initramfs-tools "Unable to install initramfs-tools in Dapper 64" [Medium,Confirmed]
[11:36] <t105> yeah thanks, botty ;)
[11:37] <cjwatson> t105: this is usually because something else failed to configure. We need to see the *full* /var/log/syslog (you can extract it using "Save debug logs" from the installer's main menu) to diagnose further
[11:37] <t105> but it seems, the regular installer is broken in some way, too: i cant install from sata-cdrom
[11:38] <t105> ah okay i'll grab the info
[11:38] <cjwatson> the comments at the end of the bug indicate that not using a separate /boot partition may be a workaround
[11:38] <t105> i'm at the point in the installer, where i can start a mini-httpd
[11:38] <cjwatson> problems installing from particular types of devices are typically kernel bugs
[11:38] <t105> yes i read that, but i'm not sure if i can do that. because i'm using a net install
[11:39] <cjwatson> I don't see how a net install is relevant
[11:39] <t105> so as i understand i would have to start up some different system
[11:39] <t105> and copy some files and edit menu.lst
[11:40] <cjwatson> that doesn't make sense to me, I'm afraid
[11:41] <cjwatson> the suggestion is simply to avoid specifying /boot as a separate partition in the installer's partitioner
[11:41] <t105> quote: The workaround suggested by BitJam worked for me as well: I restarted the installation using only /, not telling it about the existing /boot, then declined to install grub (why does it claim that's a fatal error?), then booted into another system to move the new kernel files into the real /boot partition and edited menu.lst to point to them.
[11:42] <t105> well, i'm confused about "booted into another system..."
[11:42] <t105> while... there is none =)
[11:42] <cjwatson> that's somebody who is really desperate to use a separate /boot
[11:42] <cjwatson> doing so is not usually required, except on old systems
[11:43] <cjwatson> you don't need to mess around with any of that if you're just doing a standalone install on a reasonably current machine
[11:43] <t105> ah ok. but theres one thing... my root will be on a raid1
[11:43] <cjwatson> and I assume that something with a SATA CD-ROM is fairly current
[11:43] <cjwatson> ah
[11:43] <t105> yes it's a dell t105
[11:43] <t105> it is sata-only
[11:44] <t105> theregular cd starts fine, but the installer is dumb on mounting the cd it is loaded from ;)
[11:44] <cjwatson> it is my understanding that /boot can be placed on RAID1 as long as you use LILO
[11:45] <cjwatson> that's actually unlikely to be installer dumbness
[11:45] <cjwatson> the CD booting just indicates that your BIOS can find it
[11:45] <t105> yes lilo was the possibility... some helpful guy on #xubuntu suggested that lilo is ill
[11:45] <cjwatson> whereas the installer needs the Linux kernel to be able to find it too
[11:45] <cjwatson> hence, probably a kernel bug
[11:45] <cjwatson> a newer release of Ubuntu, or even the 6.06.2-to-be CDs that are in testing at the moment, might help
[11:46] <t105> hm. what i read regulary that there is a problem with enumeration and sata-controllers...
[11:46] <cjwatson> (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/dapper/daily/current/)
[11:46] <t105> i've downloaded xubuntu installer yesterday, that seems pretty up-to-date?
[11:46] <cjwatson> in any case, if you post your syslog I can have a look at the initramfs-tools problem
[11:47] <cjwatson> Xubuntu what version?
[11:47] <t105> 7.10
[11:47] <cjwatson> you pointed to a dapper bug, I assumed you meant that
[11:47] <cjwatson> ok
[11:47] <t105> err... no
[11:47] <t105> sorry for confusing
[11:47] <cjwatson> please post syslog then
[11:48] <t105> ok lets see (it takes some time to go through all these steps again)
[11:50] <t105> p.s. i'm using the net install atm
[11:53] <t105> { in the regular install (alternate cd) i can't seem to do anything, it just says "insert cdrom". when i press "help", there are some messages unable to mount the cd dir }
[12:05] <xivulon> any issue if I move wubi to gpl-v3? main reason is to exchange code with win32-loader
[12:07] <t105> the first error occurs (i switch to the log console): debootstrap: cannot find /lib/modules/2.6.22-14-generic, then update-initramfs: failed for /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-14-generic
[12:07] <t105> dpkg: subprocess post-installation script returne error exit status 1
[12:10] <t105> p.s.: using the amd64 7.10. minimal cd
[12:11] <t105> cjwatson: how can i post syslog to you? it's pretty long, i guess irc is flood protected
[12:12] <cjwatson> t105: attach it to the bug; certainly don't put it on IRC
[12:12] <t105> the area where initramfs fails is:
[12:13] <t105> ah ok i need an account hm
[12:13] <cjwatson> you could also use paste.ubuntu.com, but it should really be attached to the bug otherwise it's liable to get lost
[12:14] <cjwatson> the log posted at the start of the bug sort of looks like the kernel didn't get installed, but it isn't entirely clear
[12:15] <cjwatson> soren: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KvmVirtManagerEtc doesn't indicate it, but gfxboot just displays a blank screen for me in hardy too; is that known?
[12:15] <cjwatson> (I forget if I've asked you before)
[12:15] <soren> cjwatson: Your kernel is not up-to-date, I'm guessing?
[12:16] <soren> cjwatson: Ah.. bootstrap-base, which calls install_extra, which installs the queued packages from apt-install, has installer-menu-item 6500. apt-setup has 7000... So no universe for queued apt-install stuff.
[12:16] <cjwatson> -5 I think
[12:16] <soren> Is there a Contents file for all the installer stuff?
[12:17] <soren> cjwatson: You need -7.
[12:17] <cjwatson> base-installer will use universe if you do the base_components thing above, though
[12:17] <cjwatson> ah, ok, thanks
[12:18] <cjwatson> d-i Contents> I don't think so unfortunately
[12:18] <soren> cjwatson: Ah, yes, sure. I'm not trying to force it for local testing. I just wanted to identify if moving open-iscsi to main would fix my problem, and that seems to be the case.
[12:18] <cjwatson> nod
[12:18]  * soren -> lunch
[12:32] <t105> cjwatson: ok, here we go: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/37527
[12:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 37527 in initramfs-tools "Unable to install initramfs-tools in Dapper 64" [Medium,Confirmed]
[12:50]  * t105 gets some food
[12:55] <cjwatson> t105: so were you installing onto a partition that already had some data on it?
[12:57] <CIA-24> apt-setup: cjwatson * r119 apt-setup/ (17 files in 8 dirs):
[12:57] <CIA-24> apt-setup: * Pre-populate apt's lists directory with signed Release files for
[12:57] <CIA-24> apt-setup:  archive.ubuntu.com (and mirrors) and security.ubuntu.com, to protect
[12:57] <CIA-24> apt-setup:  against downgrade attacks right from initial installation.
[13:03] <xivulon> evand, on winfoss replacement, had a preliminary look and nsis does not support onmouseover/onmouseclick.
[13:05] <xivulon> so the alternatives are, wrapping a dll plugin for the control (nlikely for friday), have a simpler dialog with 3 radio buttons + next + cancel (difficult to deuglify), have a go with pywin (~2MB)
[13:07] <xivulon> second option seems more plausible
[13:08] <xivulon> it will look a bit like our old interface: http://omattos.co.uk/ubuntuscreens/4.JPG
[13:09] <xivulon> except that the 3 radio will be for "Demo and Full Installation", "Install within Windows",  "More Info" and icons to match
[13:11] <CIA-24> apt-setup: cjwatson * r120 apt-setup/debian/changelog: releasing version 1:0.31ubuntu3
[13:13] <xivulon> Icon 1 = Tango CD, Icon 2 = ???, Icon 3 = Tango help, Header =???
[14:01] <CIA-24> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2442 ubiquity/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
[14:01] <CIA-24> ubiquity: * Fetch http_proxy and no_proxy from gconf (if possible) immediately
[14:01] <CIA-24> ubiquity:  before configuring apt.
[14:16] <evand> xivulon: given those options, perhaps heno would be more willing to use buttons for the option titles.
[14:17] <evand> imho, a clicking a radio box, then a button, is far too much work :)
[14:30]  * cjwatson wonders what the self.popcon is not None business in on_advanced_button_clicked is all about
[14:30] <cjwatson> trying to see how it could ever be other than None without getting past that ...
[14:30] <evand> hrm
[14:31] <cjwatson> oh, I see, ubiquity.components.summary does it
[14:31] <cjwatson> (I'm adding a proxy configuration bit to the advanced dialog, per networkless-installation-fixes
[14:31] <cjwatson> )
[14:33] <evand> fantastic
[14:36] <tjaalton> yeah, noshell-hack works
[14:40] <xivulon> evand, sure we can have buttons as well, but those are basic buttons no pixmap in there
[14:43] <evand> that shouldn't be a problem, but I'm curious to see what heno says in his reply given the options.
[15:10] <t105> cjwatson: err... was asleep some time =] not really existing data. it was just the 4th or so try, i just kept the partitions. reformatted them. dunno about /boot, but i'd suppose its overwritten anyway?
[15:14] <cjwatson> t105: problem is that if there's already an initramfs on /boot then update-initramfs will try to update it, and will break because the kernel isn't installed at that point
[15:14] <cjwatson> t105: are you sure you didn't skip past a warning about installing to an unclean partition?
[15:14] <cjwatson> something like this:
[15:14] <cjwatson> _Description: Proceed with installation to unclean target?
[15:14] <cjwatson>  The target file system contains files from a past installation. These files
[15:14] <cjwatson>  could cause problems with the installation process, and if you proceed,
[15:14] <cjwatson>  some of the existing files may be overwritten.
[15:15] <t105> yes there was a warning like that
[15:15] <cjwatson> it meant it
[15:15] <cjwatson> "could cause problems with the installation process" :-)
[15:15] <t105> but i could only proceed... or not?
[15:15] <cjwatson> it's a boolean question, you can answer no
[15:15] <t105> becaus it happened the first time, too
[15:16] <cjwatson> you need to format that partition
[15:16] <t105> it appeared the first time when everything was virgin, and all other times didn't change
[15:17] <t105> so i thought it has no effect
[15:17] <cjwatson> depending on the status of the previous installation, you may be lucky
[15:17] <cjwatson> the breakage is not guaranteed
[15:18] <t105> hehe, not guaranteed?
[15:19] <cjwatson> I'm not sure I believe you that everything was virgin when it appeared the first time, TBH
[15:19] <cjwatson> the check is very simple
[15:19] <cjwatson> "does /target/bin/sh exist?"
[15:19] <CIA-24> base-installer: cjwatson * r323 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog library.sh):
[15:19] <CIA-24> base-installer: * If base-installer/use_unclean_target is asked, emit a warning to the
[15:19] <CIA-24> base-installer:  logs so that we know about it when diagnosing problems.
[15:20] <t105> well i just said "reformat everything", but installer keeps on moaning that there is data.. hm
[15:20] <cjwatson> I think you must have missed something
[15:20] <cjwatson> somehow or other
[15:21] <t105> well i said "no" to the unclean install question, went back to the partitioning screen and changed everything to reformat
[15:21] <cjwatson> I would recommend rebooting at that point to make sure
[15:22] <cjwatson> it is possible to do it without that but there are ways to get it wrong
[15:22] <t105> sounds wise
[15:22] <cjwatson> soren: shouldn't there be a bug closure for that AMD family 16 thing in base-installer?
[15:24] <soren> cjwatson: Hm... Yes, I guess there should.
[15:26] <soren> cjwatson: It was marked as private, but I guess that shouldn't matter. Don't know why I thought it should.
[15:27] <cjwatson> oh, maybe best to upload without then
[15:27] <cjwatson> it can be useful for tracking though
[15:27] <cjwatson> let me know, I'll do an upload shortly
[15:27] <CIA-24> net-retriever: cjwatson * r342 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.18ubuntu2
[15:29] <t105> cjwatson: there was an extra option for the partition: delete all data. formatting alone did nothing. well it takes ages to delete, but maybe that's needed. i guess rebooting makes no sense, since partitioning is in the workflow and doesn't ask to reboot
[15:30] <cjwatson> oh, I have to admit I have no idea whether that's been tested recently
[15:30] <cjwatson> reboot and tell the partitioner to format the partitions right from the start
[15:30] <t105> there was an option "leave existing data" or "format  partition". the latter had no effect, i think he wasn't evven formatting anything
[15:30] <cjwatson> the latter sets a flag and causes the partition to be formatted later
[15:31] <t105> hm. :confused:
[15:31] <t105> is there an option for that? i started boot: cli
[15:32] <cjwatson> an option for what?
[15:32] <t105> for the installer
[15:32] <cjwatson> to do what?
[15:32] <t105> to partition first and what you said
[15:32] <t105> cjwatson	reboot and tell the partitioner to format the partitions right from the start
[15:33] <cjwatson> yes, of course
[15:33] <t105> yes but thats what i did... i manually configured the partitions and so it went
[15:34] <cjwatson> you can either use the guided partitioning options (erase whole disk, etc.) or use manual partitioning and make sure it says "Format the partition: yes" in the detailed view for each of the partitions you're going to mount
[15:34] <t105> yes i did enter everything manually
[15:34] <t105> because root will be on a raid partition
[15:35] <t105> just boot has an own small partition for grub
[15:35] <cjwatson> I guess it's possible there's some craziness going on with RAID
[15:35] <cjwatson> it might be worth clearing everything out first with mdadm
[15:35] <cjwatson> though that shouldn't affect /boot
[15:35] <t105> because someone suggested lilo is somewhat ill whilst can boot from raid
[15:35] <cjwatson> there are no errors in the log that might indicate trouble formatting disks, though
[15:36] <cjwatson> "ill"?
[15:36] <t105> nah, i don't remember the exact word but... so i said ok, let's use grub
[15:37] <t105> maybe it is easier to recover if /boot is a regular partition?
[15:37] <t105> and not on raid1
[15:37] <cjwatson> I thought you said you did have /boot on a regular partition
[15:37] <cjwatson> that would be likely to simplify things, yes
[15:38] <t105> so i did, /boot is a small ext3 partition
[15:39] <soren> cjwatson: I think we should put the bug nr. in the changelog. If the bug ever gets unprivated, it'll be useful. If not, no harm done.
[15:39] <cjwatson> soren: ok, go for it
[15:40] <t105> but as i said, in manual partition config i told him to reformat /boot. i thought all data would be lost? but obviously it didn't format it
[15:40] <cjwatson> this is getting to the point of being extremely hard to figure out what's going on without sitting in front of the machine and watching you operate it :-/
[15:41] <t105> heell yes ;-)
[15:41] <cjwatson> to get past it, I'd be inclined to boot in rescue mode, mount /boot, and rm everything on it
[15:41] <t105> i will wait till "delete all data" on root is ready, then i'll delete all data on /boot, and let's see what happens
[15:41] <CIA-24> base-installer: soren * r324 base-installer/debian/changelog: Add reference to bug 187869 in debian/changelog.
[15:41] <ubotu> Bug 187869 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/187869 is private
[15:42] <t105> yes kinda like that. but.. deleting 240 gig takes ages...
[15:42] <t105> i don't want to stop him right now ;)
[15:42] <t105> who knows... *magic*
[15:43] <t105> i'll go to the drugstore meanwhile *g*
[15:43] <cjwatson> 240GB? hope you have backups :)
[15:44] <cjwatson> do you mean "Delete the partition" rather than "Delete all data"?
[15:45] <t105> no, data
[15:46] <cjwatson> and this is 7.10?
[15:46] <t105> there is none, btw ;)
[15:46] <t105> well its german btw, so i translate back on the fly ;)
[15:46] <cjwatson> what is the German text? I can look it up
[15:46] <cjwatson> it always helps to know exactly what you're doing
[15:46] <t105> it sais.. dfelete all data on partition
[15:47] <t105> Lösche Daten auf RAID1 Gerät #0
[15:47] <t105> so my daughter pulls me... brb ;)
[15:47] <cjwatson> OH
[15:47] <cjwatson> you're using the crypto erase thing
[15:48] <cjwatson> you might as well let it go now I guess, but it isn't what you want
[15:48] <cjwatson> the way to erase the contents of a partition is to format it
[15:49] <cjwatson> the crypto erase tool might well not even work properly on RAID; I'm honestly not sure
[15:49] <cjwatson> I wonder how you ended up seeing that; that option is only presented if you tell the installer to make that partition encrypted
[15:57] <soren> cjwatson: Hmm... preseed is not in bzr?
[15:57] <soren> cjwatson: Is that on purpose?
[16:00] <cjwatson> it's not modified in Ubuntu
[16:00] <cjwatson> and looks like we've never imported it
[16:00] <cjwatson> you can either go through the dance to register and import it, or else just upload a modified source package
[16:02] <CIA-24> hw-detect: soren * r77 hw-detect/ (debian/changelog debian/disk-detect.templates disk-detect.sh): Add preliminary iSCSI support.
[16:03] <soren> I'll just upload it for now, and add the import thing to my todo list. I'm under a bit of time pressure.
[16:06] <cjwatson> sure
[16:06] <cjwatson> (that's what I'd probably do too, though I have got a bunch of stuff imported in the past)
[16:07] <soren> ISTR that you did special magic to import certain bits? Something about you having history that wasn't available elsewhere?
[16:14] <CIA-24> hw-detect: soren * r78 hw-detect/debian/changelog: Releasing 1.58ubuntu2
[16:17] <soren> cjwatson: It seems more appropriate if it's the installer team that imports preseed, though. </lameexcuse>
[16:17] <soren> :)
[16:17] <t105> cjwatson: back. ehm.. no, i didn't select any encryption stuff. as the base package failed, i went back to the oartition menu, and voila there was that option. but not mentioned about encryption
[16:20] <t105> btw, "erase" is still 84%. i suppose: the data, if any, is gone. ;D
[16:28] <evand> Is it reasonable to make the free space slider work over the entire partition, stopping at the min and max sizes, and converting that value to the percentage of the maximum percentage of the free space behind the scenes?
[16:28] <evand> Or would it be more clear to continue working in percentage of available space.
[16:29] <evand> cjwatson: ^
[16:40] <cjwatson> soren: you can be in the installer team if you like
[16:40] <cjwatson> soren: as long as you're prepared with mail filters, since ubuntu-installer is subscribed to all ubiquity bugs
[16:41] <cjwatson> soren: I did by-hand imports for ones that had historically had lots of Ubuntu uploads
[16:41] <cjwatson> (based on Launchpad imports) but that's not the case here
[16:41] <cjwatson> evand: my gut reaction is that the former gives you a better idea of scale
[16:41] <evand> yay, I was hoping you'd say that
[16:42] <evand> now to just figure out how to do it
[16:42] <soren> cjwatson: Re becoming member of installer team: I was afraid you were going to say that :)
[16:42] <evand> (getting the real size of the partition that is, as the question itself is of no help)
[16:42] <soren> cjwatson: I'll think about it.
[16:42] <evand> I've already got the min and max stopping done, so that's not an issue.
[16:48] <t105> *whooot*? i'm trying to repartition my hds, but i can't delete a new raid md1... but i cant't: "probably in use"
[16:49] <t105> the partition tool seems to get confused... hm
[16:51] <t105> well ok it is deleted, but i can't remove the first raid1 entry.
[16:54] <t105> let's see, if it is still there after reboot . i deleted ALL partitions and i hope he git it
[17:06] <t105> q: is there a way to start partitioning from the installer in a way i can delete all partitions? because i have no chance to do that from the regular install routine, as it keeps asking for root before writing partition tables
[17:09] <t105> kinda boot option boot: partman
[17:17] <seb128> hi
[17:17] <seb128> is there a known bug about having no LANG or LANGUAGE set to /etc/environment on new installs?
[17:25] <cjwatson> t105: not as a boot option; normally you would just delete all partitions, create the new ones, and *then* say "Finished with partitioning"
[17:25] <cjwatson> t105: it only issues the warning you're talking about if you try to proceed past partitioning without creating some partitions that the rest of the installer can work with
[17:28] <cjwatson> t105: that said, if that isn't working, then a possible workaround would be to delete all the partitions, then select "Configure the Logical Volume Manager"; that ought to cause it to prompt you whether you want to write changes to disk, at which point you'd say yes
[17:28] <cjwatson> then you can create the partitions you want
[17:29] <cjwatson> seb128: that was intentionally removed, and it only writes to /etc/default/locale now
[17:29] <cjwatson> seb128: the changelog is:
[17:29] <cjwatson>   * No longer write locale settings to /etc/environment after #389466 was
[17:29] <cjwatson>     fixed.
[17:29] <evand> localechooser sets /etc/default/locale presumably rather than /etc/environment.  Is this an error?
[17:29] <cjwatson> seb128: is that bug fixed in Ubuntu's gdm?
[17:29] <evand> ah, nevermind
[17:29] <cjwatson>    * Parse /etc/default/locale in gdm pam files, for now (closes: #389466)
[17:29] <cjwatson> seems to be fixed in our gdm too
[17:30] <cjwatson> auth    required        pam_env.so readenv=1 envfile=/etc/default/locale
[17:30] <seb128> cjwatson: no it's not, which means currently english is used for everybody on login
[17:30] <cjwatson> seb128: so what's the line above doing? :-)
[17:30] <cjwatson> /etc/default/locale is becoming standard, and is neater - I think we should honour it
[17:31] <seb128> cjwatson: well, /etc/init.d/gdm has
[17:31] <seb128> if [ -r /etc/environment ]; then
[17:31] <seb128>   if LANG=$(pam_getenv -l LANG); then
[17:31] <seb128>     export LANG
[17:31] <seb128>   fi
[17:31] <seb128>   if LANGUAGE=$(pam_getenv -l LANGUAGE); then
[17:31] <seb128>     export LANGUAGE
[17:31] <seb128>   fi
[17:31] <seb128> fi
[17:31] <seb128> which was how we used to set the LANG and LANGUAGE to use
[17:32] <seb128> cjwatson: is pam_getenv supposed to use /etc/default/locale?
[17:33] <seb128> because pam_getenv -l LANG gives nothing
[17:33] <seb128> and there is no LANGUAGE set /etc/default/locale neither
[17:34] <cjwatson> hmm, might be worth bugging slangasek about this; I think pam_getenv -l should nowadays also check /etc/default/locale
[17:34] <cjwatson> its manual page hints at that
[17:35] <cjwatson>         # We set LANGUAGE only if the languagelist is a list of
[17:35] <cjwatson>         # languages with alternatives. Otherwise, setting it is useless
[17:35] <t105> cjwatson: the problem was, i deleted all partitions, but somehow an old raid device survived and i couldn't get rid of it. i made a simple root partition, started, rebooted, and then i was able to delte partitions and NO old raid was there.
[17:35] <cjwatson>         if echo "$LANGLIST" | grep -q ":"; then
[17:35] <cjwatson>                 sed -i 's/^# LANGUAGE=$/LANGUAGE=\"'"$LANGLIST"'\"/' $DESTFILE
[17:35] <cjwatson>         fi
[17:35] <cjwatson> seb128: in other words it's not an error if LANGUAGE isn't set there
[17:36] <t105> cjwatson:  btw, i'm doing a fresh install. i selected another mirror (ireland) this time, so let's see if it works
[17:36] <cjwatson> t105: ok, I'm sorry but at the moment you're outside my experience
[17:37] <seb128> cjwatson: ok
[17:37] <t105> i was just wondering if there might have been some inconsistent mirror last time my install broke
[17:37] <t105> does that happen?
[17:38] <cjwatson> it is possible, but would not match your symptoms
[17:39] <t105> because... i did everything as the first time but used other mirror, now it sais "install ok"
[17:40] <t105> and voila, kernel is up
[17:42] <t105> *phew* that was one hard thingy
[17:43] <t105> now it's installing xubuntu ;-)
[17:43] <t105> cjwatson: thank you very much!
[17:45] <cjwatson> interesting
[17:45] <cjwatson> glad to help, even though I'm still not entirely sure what went wrong ...
[17:48] <t105> yes, me too
[17:49] <t105> but as i read the syslog i had the feeling, that some packages where installed in wrong order - or wrong place
[17:49] <t105> whatever that had caused
[17:50] <cjwatson> no, I understand where that impression came from but it's not the case
[17:51] <cjwatson> initramfs-tools is installed before the kernel, correctly so - however it is a bug in initramfs-tools that it fails to handle being configured on a system that has /boot/initrd.img-BLAH but not /lib/modules/BLAH
[17:51] <t105> ;-)
[17:51] <cjwatson> evand: this grub-installer stuff in summary.py is breaking for me
[17:52] <cjwatson> evand: I can see one obvious fix (it's handling subp.communicate output wrongly), but it seems weird for it to be using os-prober to get the list of possible targets for grub at all?
[17:52] <t105> hm. looking at the problems those other people had, maybe there is a bug in initramfs-tools?
[17:52] <cjwatson> t105: yes, there is
[17:52] <cjwatson> t105: that is why there is a bug open on initramfs-tools ;-)
[17:53] <evand> cjwatson: Ok, I'll take a look at it.  The use of os-prober is to get human readable names.
[17:53] <cjwatson> evand: right, but it only works if there's something there already
[17:53] <t105> well... then this is a monday bug. or a bug depending on nationality (server) {insert wild guessing here}
[17:53] <cjwatson> oh
[17:53] <cjwatson> I think I understand
[17:54] <cjwatson> t105: I think I explained it adequately above, at least to my own satisfaction ;-)
[17:54] <evand> right, so if a partition isn't going to be there in the future it doesn't include it in the list.
[17:55] <CIA-24> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2443 ubiquity/ubiquity/components/summary.py: handle the output of subp.communicate correctly; [0] is stdout, then splitlines to get a list of items one per line
[17:55] <cjwatson> evand: how does that look? beforehand it crashed for me (os-prober's output was empty)
[17:57] <evand> ah, much better.  Sorry about that, I thought I tested os-prober being empty, but apparently not.
[17:57] <cjwatson> looks better now. slightly odd that it still defaults to (hd0) which isn't in the list though
[17:57] <cjwatson> maybe default to the first disk instead? but otherwise it looks great, an excellent improvement
[17:58] <evand> that's still somewhat I work in progress.  I have to finish off the KDE bits and obviously do some more testing.  But I've been stock piling ubiquity branches as of late :/.
[17:58] <evand> ah, will do
[17:59] <evand> and thanks
[18:52] <CIA-24> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2444 ubiquity/debian/ (changelog ubiquity.install-any): * Update installed file list for apt-setup 1:0.31ubuntu3.
[19:27] <cjwatson> hmm, apt-setup's signed Release handling is a little bit broken wrt pockets; will fix when I get a chance
[19:28] <cjwatson> in fact, very broken. argh.
[20:06] <CIA-24> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2445 ubiquity/ (87 files in 6 dirs):
[20:06] <CIA-24> ubiquity: * GTK frontend:
[20:06] <CIA-24> ubiquity:  - Add proxy configuration to the advanced dialog (LP: #131421).
[20:19] <CIA-24> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2446 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog ubiquity/components/summary.py):
[20:19] <CIA-24> ubiquity: * Import DebconfError correctly in summary component (thanks, Jesus L.
[20:19] <CIA-24> ubiquity:  Alvaro; LP: #177442).
[21:56] <evand> cjwatson: do you think this is reasonable? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/4359/
[22:47] <t105> cjwatson: i found some strange entries in my debug.0 : "... CFI: Found no ck804xrom @ffc00000 device at location zero
[22:47] <t105> JEDEC: Found no ck804xrom @ffc00000 device at location zero"
[22:48] <t105> googles has some resources about that... nvidia... driver... >=4 gb ram .... kernel-patch?... well that kind of stuff no one wants to run into ;)
[22:49] <t105> i guess there is no chance including nvidia-stuff in the installer
[23:14] <t105> hm, sata-nv IS in ubuntu... strange
[23:52] <cjwatson> evand: I think you should be able to use PARTITION_INFO $oldid rather than iterating over PARTITIONS
[23:53] <cjwatson> evand: I'm having a hard time figuring out what totsize actually is - it doesn't seem to be the total of anything. Is it the original size of the partition being resized?
[23:53] <cjwatson> t105: can't help you here, try #ubuntu-kernel
[23:53] <cjwatson> the installer is strictly userspace :)
[23:54] <cjwatson> evand: maybe use $hcursize instead?
[23:55] <cjwatson> in fact - looks like you could just use the value of new_size, unless I'm misunderstanding something; the current size returned by GET_RESIZE_RANGE should be the same as what you get back from iterating over PARTITIONS
[23:56] <cjwatson> but I haven't seen the ubiquity code so am not entirely sure


[14:37] <penguin42> brrrr
[14:59] <zxmpi> temp as dropped to a balmy 21c atm down from 25+ this time last week
[18:59] <davef> Temps were great last week. 25C on the top of the South Downs, absolute bliss.
[19:02] <zxmpi> anything above 20c is awful, >25c is oh god i want to die and >30c i am going to die
[20:02]  * penguin42 thinks he prefers about 21c
[20:14] <zxmpi> about 14c is my comfy zone
[23:14] <daftykins> operation cool the heck down is in full swing here, having just got home from pool night :)
[23:18] <penguin42> is that a thing with 6 pockets and a cue or a thing with no pockets and a deep end?
[23:18] <daftykins> lol, the former
[23:19] <daftykins> i won 3 of my 4 frames tonight! that's my personal record in the summer league
[23:24] <penguin42> well done!
[23:24] <daftykins> thanks :D


[04:37] <bemis> I am currently unable to install lirc-modules-source in a fully updated maverick install - not sure if it is buggy package or weak admin though
[04:38] <bemis> (initially complains about being unable to find include/linux/autoconf.h - when i symlink include/generated/autoconf.h over it then just bombs out completely - implicit declaration of functions - assignment makes pointer without cast, etc)
[10:16] <HappyNwb> http://ubuntuforums.org/ seem to be down on my computer, I guess these things happen from time to time.
[10:18] <jpds> HappyNwb: Yes; they're down for maintenance.
[11:35] <Fudge> hi guys, is there a guide on how to update my lucid to alpha2? or woudl i be better off installign the iso
[11:36] <gnomefreak> !upgrade
[11:37] <gnomefreak> Fudge: that is what you are looking for i think
[11:37] <Fudge> k ty mate
[11:38] <gnomefreak> np
[11:48] <Fudge> i didnt see on those links upgrading from lucid lts to the alpha2 of maverick. did i not look properly?
[11:51] <BUGabundo_remote> Fudge: in on lucid, just $ update-manager -d
[11:51] <BUGabundo_remote> that's it
[11:52] <Fudge> great thankyou :D
[11:55] <gnomefreak> not really
[11:55] <gnomefreak> you need to change prompt==normal. it says it on the second link
[11:56] <gnomefreak> look for networkupgrade (recommended)
[11:56] <gnomefreak> network upgrade using ubuntu servers i think is the name of it
[11:59] <mvo> gnomefreak: I think that is actually no longer needed (the change to "normal")
[11:59] <mvo> but confirmation if that works (or not) would be nice
[11:59] <BUGabundo_remote> mvo: it should
[12:00] <BUGabundo_remote> since LTS always default to LTS upgrades
[12:00] <gnomefreak> mvo: cool
[12:00] <BUGabundo_remote> unless -d does some magic
[12:01] <mvo> there is some new magic, I hope it works
[12:01] <gnomefreak> mvo: new magic?
[12:03] <BUGabundo_remote> lunch
[12:03] <kickingintender> what is ist time for release of alpha2
[12:03] <BUGabundo_remote> kickingintender: unknown
[12:03] <BUGabundo_remote> when its ready
[12:04] <kickingintender> ok the release date is today itself right
[12:04] <Fudge> quadcores report cpu loads yuckyly
[12:05] <gnomefreak> kickingintender: that does not mean it will be released this week
[12:06] <Fudge> is Luke from the dev team in this chan?
[12:06]  * gnomefreak hoopes they get to normal sixe ISO,s before A2 release
[12:06] <gnomefreak> s/sixe/size
[12:06] <gnomefreak> Fudge: that depends luke is a common name
[12:07] <Fudge> he does a lot of accessibility stuff
[12:07] <gnomefreak> Fudge: better off asking in #ubuntu-bugs
[12:07] <Fudge> thanx for heads up
[12:07] <gnomefreak> Fudge: the whole core dev team does that
[12:07] <Fudge> ah ok
[12:11] <Fudge> i was curious if the new speakup had been fixed for the alhpa yet but not sure where to fin dout
[14:34] <kickingintender> alas when will the alpha 2 will release
[14:44] <bazhang> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule kickingintender
[14:48] <patdk-wk> heh, I totally misread the slashdot header today :)
[14:48] <patdk-wk> empathy is for the birds
[15:16] <h00k> patdk-wk: Then I thought of Empathy vs Pidgin, etc
[15:16] <patdk-wk> what I was thinking
[15:18] <h00k> I was all Telepathy FTW! :3
[15:19]  * patdk-wk really doesn't want his im program talking for me
[15:21] <BUGabundo_remote> nothing like jumping off a bridge to learn how to fly
[15:21] <BUGabundo_remote> h00k: pidgin FTW
[15:22] <h00k> BUGabundo_remote: :(
[17:23] <iddo> alpha2 is out?
[17:27] <Pici> Not yet.
[17:28] <iddo> but website changed alpha-1 dir to alpha-2
[17:33] <Pici> iddo: When A2 comes out there will be an annoucement on the devel-announce mailing list and we will update the topics here.  Just because someone created a new directory on the webserver doesn't mean that isos are finished testing or even close to finishing.
[17:34] <iddo> is there a chance that the image i'm downloading now will be same as A2 ?
[18:15] <iddo> where is the devel announcement ?
[18:21] <Pici> iddo: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-July/000731.html
[18:22] <iddo> thanks
[18:22] <Pici> np
[18:24] <iddo> i'm gonna try to install it now
[18:24] <Pici> good luck
[18:24] <iddo> using usb-creator of jaunty, i hope it's ok
[18:49] <sdk> Quick question: 10.10 - any idea why prntscrn key won't take screenshot?
[18:57] <z0rt|work> press it harder
[19:05] <callaghan> What additional software is included in the DVD version?
[19:07] <guntbert> callaghan: mainly language support
[19:08] <callaghan> guntbert: ah, ok, thanks
[19:09] <guntbert> callaghan: you're welcome :-) see http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/alternative-download#dvd
[19:12] <callaghan> guntbert: thanks, that is what I was looking for
[19:12] <guntbert> callaghan: no problem
[19:46] <om26er> did the download links die?
[19:47] <om26er> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/maverick/alpha-2/ is empty
[19:59] <janisozaur> why were the alpha 2 images taken down?
[19:59]  * Pici looks for answers
[20:07] <janisozaur> ubuntu seems to be back online, but not kubuntu. any changes since initial release?
[20:10] <Pici> I suspect shuffling of stuff on Canonical's servers.
[21:21] <iddo> can i choose btrfs when installing alpha2? grub2 supports it?
[21:23] <arand> iddo: You need to use the alternate installer and /boot needs to be on non-btrfs (default ext3 afaik).
[21:23] <iddo> oh
[21:23] <iddo> i already downloaded the normal installer
[21:23] <iddo> i wonder why it lets me choose btrfs
[21:24] <arand> Oh it does? That's new..
[21:24] <iddo> i wonder if i should continue....
[21:25] <iddo> i'm in manual partitioning screen in installer now
[21:25] <arand> Well, btrfs in ubuntu is unstable... That's one thing to take in cntext...
[21:26] <iddo> i'm trying the whole / in single partition... so far it didnt complain that i chose btrfs
[21:26] <iddo> but i wonder if grub2 would work?
[21:26] <arand> Afaik, it doesn't, yet.
[21:27] <iddo> so i'll just waste time and have to install again, i guess?
[21:27] <iddo> i tried to ask in #grub
[21:29] <iddo> ahh installer says not supported when trying to contuinue
[21:29] <iddo> sorry for misinfo :(
[21:32] <iddo> how big should the /boot partition be?
[21:34] <Ian_corne> why do you need to create a seperate boot partition?
[21:34] <arand> I think 300-500 is standard in some cases, but don't take my word for that..
[21:34] <Ian_corne> $ du -sch /boot/
[21:34] <Ian_corne> 92M	/boot/
[21:34] <Ian_corne> 92M	total
[21:34] <arand> Ian_corne: btrfs
[21:34] <Ian_corne> $ du -sch /boot/
[21:34] <Ian_corne> 199M    /boot/
[21:34] <Ian_corne> 199M    total
[21:34] <Ian_corne> ah ok
[21:34] <Ian_corne> grub still doesn't work with btrfs?
[21:34] <Ian_corne> I'd go for 500mb just to be sure
[21:35] <void^> it depends on how regularly you kill old kernels
[21:35] <Ian_corne> the 199 one has alot of old ones
[21:35] <sebsebseb> Hi
[21:35] <Ian_corne> I never do it manually :p
[21:35] <iddo> person in #grub says it doesnt work because of gpl2 license issue<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:35] <arand> It's in progress I think, that dear licensing issue...
[21:36] <Ian_corne> ok
[21:36] <void^> i don't think you need more than 200mb unless you go through entire alpha+beta without cleaning up
[21:36] <iddo> so should /boot be ext3 ? or ext2 ?
[21:37] <SwedeMike> iddo: mine is ext3
[21:38] <sebsebseb> whats this btrfs talk?
[21:39] <void^> btrfs is the new kid on the block
[21:39] <iddo> trying to see if normal alpha2 install will work with btrfs
[21:39] <sebsebseb> void^: yep, altough not that new
[21:40] <knittl> is ubuntu one currently broken in nautilus?
[21:43] <Ian_corne> knittl: last I heard - Yes
[21:43] <knittl> Ian_corne: ok, thanks
[21:43] <knittl> :)
[21:53] <Spirits-Sight> Was wondering what folder does empathy keep all the user data so I can back it up and move it to a fresh install
[21:55] <arand> Spirits-Sight: ~/.missin-control5 or something for account data, ~/.telepathy might have some... etc..
[21:55] <Spirits-Sight> thanks will check this is under the username right?
[21:56] <arand> Spirits-Sight: Indeed. But that's an #ubuntu question, right?
[21:57] <Spirits-Sight> yes yes I am trying to back up the stuff so I can install latest ubuntu :-)
[21:58] <Spirits-Sight> sorry it could be both I believe here and #ubuntu but no one is answering over there the question
[21:59] <sebsebseb> This looks interesting https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-grub2-boot-framebuffer  ,but what does it mean that Grub 2 and Plymouth won't be so horrible in 10.10? I hope so :)
[22:01] <arand> Goal is to boot like apple I guess... Only with purple and bongo-drums..
[22:03] <void^> i've just downgraded to grub1 and killed everything that smelled like a splash. my nerves can only take so much.
[22:07] <sebsebseb> void^: oh?
[22:07] <sebsebseb> arand: well the boot up really does suck for 10.04,  they haven't done Plymouth properly, unlike other distros
[22:08] <sebsebseb> arand: and then it gets even worse for loads of us that do propritary Nivida or ATI drivers
[22:08] <arand> Yea I know, although at least it's reasonable quick, so I don't get the blackscreen for too long..
[22:09] <sebsebseb> arand: someone has even been trying to remove Plymouth from 10.04, without messing up the system recently, but he hasn't had much luck so far it seems
[22:09] <patdk-wk> heh?
[22:09] <patdk-wk> I thought it was easy to remove plymouth
[22:09] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: @ what?
[22:09] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: nope
[22:09] <sebsebseb> not properly
[22:09] <patdk-wk> and my systems don't seem to be broken at all
[22:09] <sebsebseb> unless you want to take a load of stuff that should be installed with it
[22:09] <patdk-wk> I just delete all plymouth stuff out of /etc/init and /etc/init.d
[22:10] <patdk-wk> defently not recommended, but hasn't broken any of my systems (yet)
[22:10] <arand> Nah, dunno if they made it a dependency when it turnen out their testers were uninstalling it and refusing to put it back in fear of it breaking during the test cycle >_< ...
[22:10] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: I do this like text boot fix, that isn't exactly working properly on the other computer.
[22:10] <sebsebseb> arand: Plymouth is part of ubuntu-desktop
[22:10] <patdk-wk> the issue is, fsck is piped to plymouth
[22:10] <arand> I heard something like that, dunno if that was the cause though...
[22:11] <patdk-wk> so if you completely kill plymouth, and your harddrive needs checking, your screwed
[22:11] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: oh?
[22:12]  * patdk-wk should submit patchs to debian
[22:12] <arand> Yea, mountall-plymouth became very integral as it turned out, and now we're stuck with it. I don't personally complain, but as far as I can see it's a bit WFM..
[22:12] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: andersk  anyway and can't just do xsplash instead, even though its in the repo
[22:13] <sebsebseb> arand: yeah Plymouth is well some people no problem with it at all, and many others yep problems
[22:13] <sebsebseb> arand: probably most Ubuntu users don't really get issues with it, because they aren't even installing propritary drivers
[22:14] <arand> Well I guess you  could run fsck from another root, but the scheduled or forced check might be lost with mountall...
[22:14] <void^> according to the plymouth readme file, removing the theme packages is one clean way to stop it from splashing
[22:14] <void^> that seems to work for me
[22:14] <sebsebseb> however even without the propritary driver on the other computer, it wasn't always working properly
[22:14] <arand> Oh, I would actually guess the majority of ubuntu users are on the blobby drivers..
[22:15] <sebsebseb> well I hope 10.10 really does improve the boot up,  including Grub,  and by the looks of that blueprint I liked to, that may be indeed the case
[22:15] <sebsebseb> linked to, above
[22:16] <void^> i'm not so sure about grub2 in vbe mode. it might be good if you never use the grub menu, but then how does it matter either way?
[22:16] <sebsebseb> also I hope this transparent feature that is coming will be worth it,  for me 10.04's default themes are really half baked
[22:16] <sebsebseb> I mean the two new themes for 10.04 one of which is the default
[22:16] <sebsebseb> void^: I am not sure what vbe mode is even
[22:17] <arand> Yea, Scott talked about the issue with blob drivers particularly and how plymouth wasn't really all the way there, at UDS, so at least they're very aware of it.
[22:17] <sebsebseb> yeah the propritary drivers don't work properly with Plymouth and such
[22:17] <void^> vesa graphics mode. on my system it features horrible redrawing performance, selecting a boot option a little further down the list feels becomes unpleasant.
[22:18] <void^> -feels
[22:19] <sebsebseb> void^: well  as long as Grub 2 and Plymouth,  look good, but also work properly on the computer,  I will be happy I guess or happy enough I guess.
[22:19] <void^> i'm not sure i get what it is all about
[22:19] <sebsebseb> oh and of course  accounts once logged in as long as things work alright there as well, but i'll have more stuff to remove in 10.10 for accounts I guess, but I don't know exactly what yet
[22:20] <void^> initially your system boots in text mode, why is it important to switch to a graphics mode in grub?
[22:20] <sebsebseb> void^: most people dual boot with Windows that use Ubuntu,  so Grub needs to show
[22:21] <patdk-wk> most people?
[22:21]  * patdk-wk doesn't know anyone
[22:21] <sebsebseb> void^: and I guess like 10.04  it will show, when its a dual boot, but without a dual boot nope, and press esc if wanting it.
[22:22] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: well I say most people,  going by #ubuntu  ,but to be exact thats only a selection of users,  however I guess even on the forums most people are dual booting with Windows.
[22:22]  * patdk-wk would assume the reason they are in the irc channel or the forums asking for help is they are windows users in thefirst place :)
[22:22] <void^> well for dual booting it's even worse, bios in text mode -> grub in graphics mode -> windows loader in text mode ..?
[22:23] <patdk-wk> I have >30 systems with ubuntu, none dualboot
[22:23] <sebsebseb> void^: bios?  what?  people don't see their bios, unless they go into it
[22:23] <patdk-wk> bios in text mode? all my bios are in graphics modes
[22:23] <sebsebseb> same here some sort of graphical bios thingey
[22:24] <void^> that's your bios setup, typically your system is in text mode when the bios initiates the boot process
[22:24] <sebsebseb> void^: when a computer boots, it will show a manufacutre logo useually and yeah text
[22:25] <sebsebseb> void^: thats what you mean?
[22:25] <void^> i think we're not really connecting in this discussion
[22:26] <sebsebseb> void^: yeah maybe not quite.  Anyway by the way why did you downgrade to Grub 1? Grub legacy
[22:26] <void^> less mode switching delay, no problems with btrfs
[22:27] <patdk-wk> heh?
[22:27] <void^> there's a few other things that don't work in grub2 yet, but i can't remember..
[22:27] <patdk-wk> I have no mode switching in grub2 (but I have grub2 in text mode I think)
[22:27] <sebsebseb> void^: mode swithcing delay meaning?   also I would have thought that btrfs was needed with Grub 2
[22:27] <patdk-wk> and no issues with btrfs
[22:28]  * sebsebseb still haven't done a 10.10 vm with btrfs,  but soonish
[22:28] <void^> maybe they've patched it now, that was a 10.04 grub2
[22:28] <sebsebseb> hasn't, above
[22:28] <patdk-wk> you have /boot formatted with btrfs?
[22:28] <void^> of course not
[22:28] <patdk-wk> then it doesn't matter what grub you use :)
[22:29] <sebsebseb> that sucks when meant to have a seperate /boot
[22:29] <patdk-wk> I always do a seperate everything
[22:29] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: why?
[22:29] <patdk-wk> normally I make / 2gigs
[22:29] <cclocker> Hello everyone, I just tried to install Maverick Alpha 2 with a 1GB ext4 (/boot) partition and the rest as a btrfs (/) file system. After restarting, i get the following message: FATAL: Error inserting btrfs, and a initramfs prompt. I guess it still doesn't work?
[22:29] <patdk-wk> doesn't matter much anymore
[22:29] <void^> it does when grub-probe chickens out upon (not) detecting btrfs
[22:29] <patdk-wk> but when I was using freebsd, it would always pause to check root
[22:29] <patdk-wk> and do the others in the background
[22:29] <patdk-wk> so if root was small
[22:30] <patdk-wk> it would boot fast :)
[22:30] <sebsebseb> cclocker: why Ext4 for boot not Ext3?
[22:30] <patdk-wk> my /boot is ext4
[22:30] <patdk-wk> on lucid and maverick
[22:30] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: ok why did you go with Ext4 not Ext3?
[22:30] <cclocker> sebsebseb: ehm, no idea, maybe because it was at the top :)
[22:30] <patdk-wk> cause that is the installer default :)
[22:31] <patdk-wk> are you using grub2?
[22:31] <patdk-wk> actually that doesn't matter
[22:31] <patdk-wk> cause you made it to inittab
[22:31] <patdk-wk> initramfs
[22:31] <sebsebseb> anyway if  btrfs needs a seperate boot, by the time Ubuntu uses btrfs by default probably in 11.04, I guess things will be sorted out,  so that people don't need to make seperate /boot :)
[22:31] <patdk-wk> heh
[22:32] <patdk-wk> there are craploads of laptops that can't access the harddrive >128gigs still
[22:32] <patdk-wk> those still need seperate boots
[22:32] <sebsebseb> I nearly did 9.04 with XFS,  or whatever, but needed sepeate /boot and I was like, nah bugger that
[22:32] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: whats that?
[22:32] <patdk-wk> what is what?
[22:33] <sebsebseb> the lap top thing
[22:33] <sebsebseb> ?
[22:33] <void^> even grub2 can handle xfs now i think
[22:33] <patdk-wk> the laptop thing I just explained?
[22:33] <patdk-wk> I explained it, so what is to what about it?
[22:33] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: ok I read again
[22:33] <patdk-wk> ya, grub2 does xfs
[22:33] <sebsebseb> now I understand
[22:33] <sebsebseb> lap tops that cant access a hard drive if it is bigger than 128GB
[22:33] <patdk-wk> yep
[22:34] <patdk-wk> I still have systems that can't access >8gig harddrives
[22:34] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: a harddrive yiou meant partition?
[22:34] <patdk-wk> no
[22:34] <sebsebseb> ok so why do those lap tops need seperate /boot ?
[22:34] <patdk-wk> I mean the bios can only access the first 128gigs of drive
[22:34] <patdk-wk> so the bios can locate all the boot files it needs
[22:34] <patdk-wk> if your root has /boot on it
[22:34] <patdk-wk> and you start to fill the drive
[22:34] <patdk-wk> your new kernel will be >128gigs
[22:34] <patdk-wk> and your system won't boot
[22:35] <patdk-wk> happens all the time
[22:35] <sebsebseb> the new kernel, will be put on towards the end of the hard disk space, you mean?
[22:35] <patdk-wk> if your /boot partition is at the start of the time, that problem will never happen
[22:35] <patdk-wk> well, with ext, if it places it after 128gig mark
[22:35] <patdk-wk> I guess it doesn't have to be full for ext
[22:35] <patdk-wk> used to ntfs always having this issue
[22:35] <patdk-wk> cause most peple have xp on them :)
[22:36] <sebsebseb> ah right
[22:36] <patdk-wk> resize c: to <128gig, no problem
[22:36] <sebsebseb> well I didn't know this stuff
[22:36] <patdk-wk> the bios is always the limit
[22:36] <patdk-wk> first it was 32megs
[22:36] <patdk-wk> then 512megs
[22:36] <patdk-wk> then 2gigs, 4gig 8gig 32gig 128gig, ...
[22:37] <sebsebseb> Why does btrfs want seperate /boot though?
[22:37] <patdk-wk> I don't see support for btrfs in grub2 yet
[22:37] <sebsebseb> or XFS for that matter,  well maybe not now
[22:38] <sebsebseb> seperate /boot when the boot loader lacks support for the file system ?
[22:38] <cclocker> patdk-wk: so this means that btrfs should work with a separate /boot?
[22:38] <patdk-wk> cclocker, I have no issues :)
[22:38] <patdk-wk> ext4 /boot and btrfs /
[22:39] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: how big is your /boot ?
[22:39] <patdk-wk> 500m
[22:39] <sebsebseb> yeah I was thinking  something like that as well
[22:39] <cclocker> patdk-wk: did you use the standard maverick alpha 2 cd?
[22:39] <sebsebseb> 500MB or whatever I was thinking before
[22:39] <patdk-wk> na, I upgraded from lucid awhile ago
[22:39] <sebsebseb> cclocker: oh uhmm the ot her day
[22:40] <sebsebseb> cclocker: on omgubuntu.co.uk
[22:40] <sebsebseb> cclocker: they mentioned how the dailys got btrfs support, but
[22:40] <sebsebseb> cclocker: only the alternate CD
[22:40] <sebsebseb> I haven't tried this stuff yet
[22:41] <sebsebseb> or read something, so I don't know if the desktop CD installer has support now, I guess it does
[22:41] <patdk-wk> I manually converted my system, didn't use the installer or any gui thing to do it
[22:41] <arand> It install quite easily, you need to go manual though..
[22:41] <sebsebseb> arand: well ok, but thats what it was like with 9.04 and the optional Ext4 support as well
[22:41] <arand> I haven't figured out how to delete snapshots yet though, which I guess is an inceonvenience..
[22:41] <patdk-wk> that is easy :)
[22:41] <sebsebseb> which apparnatly wasn't perfectly stable, since  people lost data before, and the kernel or whatever, I naver had problems though :)
[22:41] <arand> Yea, and that's the plan afaik..
[22:42] <cclocker> hm, I just tried it using the "select your partitions manually" option, I had to create a separate /boot, then it installed without problems, after a reboot i get this: http://forum.nginx.org/read.php?31,103432
[22:42] <cclocker> well, i will go with the alternate, then
[22:42] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: well if its like Ext3 being converted to Ext4, you can't quarrantee you then have the proper thing,  some will  say you have it, others will say do a new partition with the file system
[22:42] <sebsebseb> cclocker: so you tried with the destop CD and manual install and did btrfs and won't work?
[22:42] <patdk-wk> heh?
[22:43] <patdk-wk> I have no idea what your talking about
[22:43] <dupondje> Oh oh, Alpha 2 is out :)
[22:43] <cclocker> sebsebseb: exactly
[22:43] <patdk-wk> sebsebseb, ext3 -> ext4 is nothing at all like * -> btrfs
[22:43] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: I am saying the Ext3 to Ext4 conversion may not be good enough for those wanting complete support for the file system,  and that Ext4 to btrfs conversion will probably be like that as well
[22:43] <patdk-wk> maybe you should learn what ext3, ext4, btrfs are before commenting
[22:43] <sebsebseb> dupondje: yes
[22:44] <sebsebseb> dupondje: doesn't seem to offer much advantage though from what I read
[22:44] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: I know that Ext  and btrfs are rather differnet
[22:44] <patdk-wk> but do you know what is different between all 3 of them?
[22:45] <patdk-wk> if you don't, how can you even talk about it?
[22:45] <dupondje> Ah well we go with the flow :)
[22:45] <patdk-wk> ext3 to ext4 is fine, you don't benifit from extents with your old files though
[22:45] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: to be honest I don't know much about btrfs yet, since I haven't read much about it yet, or tried it
[22:45] <dupondje> some archive admin needs to accept Opal btw :P
[22:45] <patdk-wk> but btrfs is completely different and works totally differently
[22:46] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: altough I will be trying btrfs in a vm soon, altough probably better to  test a file system on real hardware than in a vm occasionally really.
[22:46] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: yes next generation file system,  with snapshots and such, and the alternative to the Solaris ZFS which apparently is the best file system
[22:46] <patdk-wk> no
[22:46] <patdk-wk> that is what the user sees
[22:46] <sebsebseb> patdk-wk: no?
[22:46] <patdk-wk> completely not how it works :)
[22:47] <patdk-wk> I hate zfs
[22:47] <sebsebseb> why?
[22:47] <patdk-wk> it's nothing but a pain
[22:47] <sebsebseb> How so?  and yes I have never used it
[22:47] <patdk-wk> everyone I know is trashing it also
[22:48] <sebsebseb> trashing as in replaceing with another file system? replacing with what?
[22:48] <patdk-wk> the only people keeping it around I believe is solaris
[22:48] <patdk-wk> yep
[22:48] <patdk-wk> I dunno what they are switching too, or even they know yet
[22:48] <void^> i must say converting ext->btrfs is neat; you get the old ext fs as a file in the new fs
[22:48] <sebsebseb> void^: oh?
[22:48] <patdk-wk> as a snapshot
[22:48] <sebsebseb> oh right
[22:49]  * sebsebseb needs to read a bit more about btrfs really, and  yeah try in a virtual machine at least
[22:49] <patdk-wk> 302megs of updates :(
[22:49] <dupondje> lol
[22:49] <sebsebseb> void^: so basically the old Ext4 data is there,  in a snapshot or what?
[22:49] <patdk-wk> yep
[22:50] <patdk-wk> btrfs is basically a cow system
[22:50] <void^> it does mean that you need over 50% free space to convert
[22:50] <patdk-wk> it never overrites
[22:50] <sebsebseb> void^: well my vms have that
[22:50] <patdk-wk> void, no
[22:50] <patdk-wk> you only need enough space to double your inodes
[22:50] <patdk-wk> not data
[22:50]  * sebsebseb should maybe try converting one of his 10.10 vms or both of them, from Ext4 to btrfs ?
[22:51] <sebsebseb> that was  in 3rd person or whatever its called :D ^
[22:51] <sebsebseb> my 10.10 vm is a bit odd acstaully, doesn't show  all of the top panel like its meant to
[22:51] <sebsebseb> desktop version
[22:52] <void^> hmm, right. in theory it shouldn't take as much space.
[22:52] <void^> maybe i've had more modified files than expected
[22:52] <sebsebseb> void^: how to convert Ext4 into btrfs anyway?
[22:53] <cclocker> patdk-wk: did you do it like that?: https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Conversion_from_Ext3
[22:53] <void^> ^ that link explains it well enough
[22:53] <patdk-wk> pretty much
[22:53] <patdk-wk> http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=246520
[22:54]  * sebsebseb will probably clean install the other computer,  when Ubuntu uses btrfs by default.
[22:54] <sebsebseb> altough that just came from someone who hasn't tried btrfs in a vm yet, or read more about it
[22:54] <cclocker> ok, this looks good, i'll give it a try, thanks
[22:55] <patdk-wk> still downloading updates :(
[22:56] <patdk-wk> oh, openoffice update :(
[22:56] <patdk-wk> I should uninstall openoffice
[22:56] <cclocker> are you using a 56k modem or what? ;)
[22:57] <patdk-wk> downloading at 6-8mbit
[22:58] <patdk-wk> I should probably setup one of my colo servers as a mirror
[22:59] <patdk-wk> it's the download from uk thing that slows it down
[22:59] <patdk-wk> dunno why, but, us.archive.ubuntu.com always points to a uk mirror
[23:00] <BUGabundo> because its IP balanced?
[23:00] <BUGabundo> ask jpds
[23:00] <BUGabundo> its his doings
[23:00] <patdk-wk> heh :)
[23:00] <patdk-wk> well, once I download it once, it's cached for my other systems
[23:01] <dupondje> archive.ubuntu.com is quite fast here :)
[23:01] <patdk-wk> doesn't help I only have one maverick system so it's never cached for it :)
[23:01] <patdk-wk> us.archive.ubuntu.com and archive.ubuntu.com gives me the same exact ip's
[23:02] <patdk-wk> all in the uk
[23:04] <DrHalan> vlc audio does stutter here
[23:04] <DrHalan> any help?
[23:05] <patdk-wk> using 10.04?
[23:05] <DrHalan> 10.10
[23:06] <fagan> patdk-wk: the main canonical servers are in the uk so they are the same
[23:06] <fagan> sometimes the irish ones are better than the uk ones though
[23:07] <patdk-wk> I would use the usa ones
[23:07] <fagan> our ones are on a 20 gigabit line
[23:07] <patdk-wk> but they seem to get outdated fast :(
[23:07] <fagan> patdk-wk: are you in the us?
[23:07] <patdk-wk> d.c.
[23:07] <fagan> then dont use the main or uk ones
[23:07] <fagan> because they would have a serious lag for you
[23:08] <patdk-wk> hmm, that is why I use us.*
[23:08] <fagan> between the use and eu is 4 seconds
[23:08] <fagan> ok
[23:08] <patdk-wk> if ubuntu has updated ubuntu mirrors in the us, shouldn't it have us servers?
[23:08] <patdk-wk> and us to eu is 100ms
[23:08] <patdk-wk> dunno where you get 4000
[23:08] <patdk-wk> freaking you can go around the whole world in 400ms
[23:08] <DrHalan> any help with vlc? i am using pulse-output but still the sound stutters. video is fine...
[23:09] <patdk-wk> just installed vlc
[23:09] <patdk-wk> now I need a video to test :)
[23:09] <fagan> when I play heroes of newerth between ireland and the us is 600 ms - 1500ms
[23:09] <dupondje> patdk-wk: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
[23:09] <fagan> oh ok
[23:09] <DrHalan> oh thanks patdk-wk
[23:10] <fagan> patdk-wk: ask the mirror admins to update it more then
[23:10] <fagan> most mirror admins have it ok
[23:10] <fagan> the uk mirror is only updated every 6 hours
[23:10]  * patdk-wk notes only 7 of the usa mirrors are uptodate
[23:11] <cclocker> where can I disable the disappearing mouse pointer feature?
[23:11] <patdk-wk> also, how can I find the person that controls us.archive.ubuntu.com?
[23:11] <patdk-wk> isn't that the issue?
[23:11] <fagan> cclocker: sudo apt-get remove unclutter
[23:11] <patdk-wk> the ip's of offical mirrors should be on that dns entry, cause that is the whole point of having it :)
[23:11] <cclocker> fagan: thanks
[23:11] <patdk-wk> I don't want to point my stuff at some mirror, then next year they take that mirror offline
[23:12] <patdk-wk> and find out later none of my stuff is patched anymore cause I didn't realise the mirror was gone
[23:12] <fagan> patdk-wk: click on them and look at the owner
[23:12] <fagan> some of them are unofficial though
[23:12] <patdk-wk> I fail to see a place to click on "us.archive.ubuntu.com"
[23:13] <fagan> I think that just defaults to the nearest archive
[23:13] <fagan> just go here https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
[23:13] <fagan> and it has all the details
[23:13] <patdk-wk> it only takes a very simple script to make us.archive.ubuntu.com only have ubuntu mirrors that have uptodate contents in it
[23:14] <fagan> patdk-wk: its harder than you think because maybe they dont want to check it that often
[23:14] <fagan> it takes lots of bandwidth as it is
[23:14] <patdk-wk> that isn't hard at all
[23:15] <patdk-wk> if they don't want to be uptodate then they shouldn't be an OFFICAL mirror
[23:15] <patdk-wk> and shouldn't be in the list
[23:15] <patdk-wk> cause then everyone would get security updates late
[23:15] <fagan> patdk-wk: most of them are run by outside people like colleges or govergnment departments
[23:15] <fagan> so you cant give out too much
[23:15] <fagan> its a service they give for free so dont complain
[23:15] <patdk-wk> still, not relevent to this topic
[23:15] <patdk-wk> I said OFFICAL
[23:16] <patdk-wk> if the goverment or college wants to be an offical mirror, so be it
[23:16] <patdk-wk> if they don't, no problem, let them list on that page if they want
[23:16] <patdk-wk> but don't use their ip in the us.archive.*
[23:16] <fagan> patdk-wk: the official ones are official because they offer high bandwidth
[23:16] <patdk-wk> I don't see the issue
[23:17] <fagan> there is no other criteria to being an official mirror than high bandwidth, high uptime and mirroring the entire archive
[23:17] <fagan> they dont say when they have to update
[23:17] <patdk-wk> yes
[23:18] <patdk-wk> you only pic offical mirrors that are updated (like <6hours) to be in the dns roundrobin
[23:18] <fagan> the reason is because stable releases dont happen often enough to warrant the entire system updating every time the mirror changes
[23:18] <patdk-wk> otherwise they just work like they do now, on the webpage
[23:19] <patdk-wk> dunno, I don't see the mirror system as a *stable relase* issue, but as a push out security update issue
[23:19] <fagan> patdk-wk: its the same system
[23:19] <patdk-wk> I don't want to get my security updates from a 2day out of sync mirror
[23:19] <fagan> its not a big deal really
[23:19] <fagan> 2 days is nothing
[23:20] <fagan> some mirrors get updated weekly
[23:20] <fagan> some monthly
[23:20] <fagan> it depends on the bandwidth costs
[23:20] <patdk-wk> yep, and those systems should not be in the dns roundrobin, so I don't see the issue
[23:20] <patdk-wk> but the ones that want to be I think should be
[23:20] <patdk-wk> but right now, NONE are
[23:20] <patdk-wk> I don't get that
[23:21] <patdk-wk> there has to be atleast one person that wouldn't mind being in it
[23:21] <fagan> portland is
[23:21] <fagan> loads of them are according to the list
[23:21] <patdk-wk> ya, according to the list
[23:21] <patdk-wk> I'm going according to dns requests over a month
[23:22] <patdk-wk> NEVER have I got someting outside uk
[23:22] <fagan> hmmmm
[23:22] <patdk-wk> doing dns requests directly to ubuntu dns servers
[23:23] <fagan> ah well its one of those issues that you have to get on to the mirror admins about
[23:29] <dupondje> somebody happen to have vsftpd installed ? :)
[23:29] <patdk-wk> yep
[23:29] <dupondje> maverick ?
[23:29] <patdk-wk> nope
[23:31] <dupondje> or debian squeeze ? :)
[23:46] <DrHalan> lol unclutter doesnt hide tooltips
[23:52] <fagan> DrHalan: that sounds like something you have to file a bug about
[23:53] <DrHalan> fagan: yeah i will
[23:54] <fagan> DrHalan: or just mention it on #ayatana and see what they say
[23:54] <fagan> maybe not this time at night though
[23:55] <fagan> it might be intentional
[23:55] <fagan> I cant remember tooltips being talked about
[23:55] <jpds> wut.
[23:55] <DrHalan> i will
[23:55] <jpds> patdk-wk: Hi.
[23:56] <jpds> Oh Dear God, a us.archive conversation.
[23:56] <fagan> jpds: i tried my best :)
[23:58] <jpds> patdk-wk: us.archive is pointed at the master archive servers in London, as no US mirror is capable of handling the load of traffic it sees.
[23:58] <johndee> Is there any way to disable automounting of USB drives in Lucid?