[16:10] <mup> PR operator#749 closed: typing for storage.py <Created by PietroPasotti> <Merged by rwcarlsen> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/749>


[00:22] <kim0> Hi, is there some markup language that generates moinmoin wiki (for w.u.c), html, and pdf easily ?
[00:36] <jbicha> kim0: not sure, what do you need all of that for?
[00:43] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, any pages you need focused on tonight?
[00:43] <Captainkrtek> or just do whatever
[00:43] <jbicha> nothing in particular, did you see my email this morning?
[00:43] <Captainkrtek> umm
[00:43] <Captainkrtek> let me look
[00:44] <Captainkrtek> what was it titled
[00:44] <jbicha> Driver doc page
[00:45] <Captainkrtek> gotcha
[00:45] <Captainkrtek> I can fix that
[00:46] <jbicha> personally I'm mostly done with the Natty docs and we're not ready to mess with Oneiric yet
[00:46] <Captainkrtek> k
[00:46] <Captainkrtek> Im also starting with with ubuntu-manual
[00:47] <jbicha> so I'm working with gnome 3 packaging stuff for fun, and I'll also work with Gnome upstream docs if I make time for it
[00:47] <Captainkrtek> yeah I'll try to figure out the gnome stuff
[00:47] <Captainkrtek> any idea when oneiric work will start?
[00:47] <jbicha> Natty has 2 printing pages that need done, install a printer and set as default but it may take me a few days to get to it
[00:48] <Captainkrtek> I can do that today maybe
[00:48] <Captainkrtek> Ill put natty on a live cd and run it on my downstairs PC
[00:50] <jbicha> oneiric can start once we get natty finalized,  starting before that means we have to merge any natty changes
[00:51] <jbicha> and you can make your own branches for stuff if you want to try something different
[00:51] <jbicha> or have changes that aren't ready for our main branch or something
[00:52] <jbicha> a bzr shared repo would probably be handy for working with multiple branches but I haven't learned how to effectively use one yet
[00:56] <Captainkrtek> was talking to j1mc yesterday
[00:56] <Captainkrtek> about setting deadlines more specifically
[00:58] <jbicha> the way I understand the freeze we're in now for Natty is we can still make necessary changes and we can still add content but we shouldn't make other changes
[00:58] <jbicha> so as not to annoy our translators
[00:58] <Captainkrtek> true
[00:58] <Captainkrtek> so now just work on stuff like stubs
[00:59] <jbicha> not exactly, a lot of those stubs were just for brainstorming and we don't necessarily need them now
[00:59] <Captainkrtek> k
[01:00] <jbicha> I was confused on that myself, the first thing I did was spend a bunch of time on the cheese stub which worked and is useful
[01:00] <Captainkrtek> how long have you been working on ubuntu-docs ?
[01:01] <jbicha> but we don't necessarily need the other app- stubs now, I think Gnome's idea was it was supposed to be a quick advertisement
[01:01] <jbicha> with an install link or documentation link
[01:01] <jbicha> a few weeks but I was interested for a year
[01:01] <Captainkrtek> ahh cool
[01:02] <Captainkrtek> I'm trying to pick this up quickly, appreciate the tips and pointers
[01:02] <jbicha> yeah, no problem, we have to keep new contributors happy or they'll find something else to do :-)
[01:03] <Captainkrtek> hehe
[01:03] <Captainkrtek> feed us more hot pockets ;-)
[01:07] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, one Q for you, how often do our commits get pushed to updates?
[01:08] <jbicha> well, all SRUs have to get approval from the SRU team and first go to -proposed
[01:08] <Captainkrtek> gotcha
[01:08] <jbicha> then if enough good feedback is received on the SRU bug, it is then pushed to -updates
[01:09] <Captainkrtek> how long does that usually take?
[01:09] <jbicha> it could be a few days, if there's no feedback then it can even get removed from -proposed without going to -updates
[01:10] <Captainkrtek> oh interesting
[01:10] <Captainkrtek> still learning the ropes around here hehe
[01:10] <Captainkrtek> there's a process for everything :-)
[01:13] <jbicha> SRUs and backports are a bit of a hassle, it's a lot easier to get stuff fixed before release freeze
[01:13] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[01:13] <Captainkrtek> also, what about editing the official wiki?
[01:15] <jbicha> anyone can do that, do enough good stuff and you can get wiki admin prilileges to edit restricted page or delete pages
[01:15] <Captainkrtek> ahh cool :)
[01:16] <Captainkrtek> was referring to: http://help.ubuntu.com/
[01:16] <Captainkrtek> like the official documentation wik
[01:16] <Captainkrtek> that just our .pages ?
[01:18] <jbicha> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/help.ubuntu.com
[01:18] <Captainkrtek> oh cool
[01:18] <jbicha> and help.ubuntu.com pulls from there overnight or something
[01:18] <Captainkrtek> ahh nice :)
[01:18] <jbicha> that doesn't need SRU or anything
[01:18] <Captainkrtek> very cool
[01:19] <Captainkrtek> going to pull that branch
[01:19] <jbicha> mdke syncs our branch with that one as needed
[01:19] <Captainkrtek> gotcha
[01:19] <Captainkrtek> do you work much with that branch?
[01:20] <jbicha> no, it's just snapshots of the other branches
[01:20] <Captainkrtek> okay
[01:28] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, any projects you can reccomend to work on besides ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-manual?
[01:30] <jbicha> there's the server guide, kubuntu-docs, etc.
[01:30] <Captainkrtek> okay :)
[01:30] <jbicha> you can find some app that needs better docs, like this one for instance:
[01:30] <jbicha> https://live.gnome.org/Evolution/DocRewrite
[01:31] <Captainkrtek> thanks :)
[01:31] <jbicha> there are apps that no one is working on yet, so you can write the whole thing if you want
[01:31] <jbicha> but you probably should work with somebody at first to help you with syntax & writing style
[01:38] <Captainkrtek> just requested permissions to the gitorious
[01:38] <Captainkrtek> on that app
[01:39] <Captainkrtek> thanks for all the help jbicha :-)
[01:41] <jbicha> I'd expect you should introduce yourself too
[02:07] <Captainkrtek> in the mailing list?
[02:15] <jbicha> if you're asking for commit access, the people controlling that want to know you are
[02:15] <Captainkrtek> good point
[02:15] <Captainkrtek> just list my experience?
[02:15] <jbicha> yeah, just say who you're are, what you've done, and why you need it
[02:16] <jbicha> some people like to see patches first, I don't know about this group
[02:17] <Captainkrtek> "why you need it" Should I ask up front then? like "im requesting..."
[02:29] <jbicha> not sure I understand you, but you should say something about why you requested commit privileges
[02:29] <Captainkrtek> oh
[02:29] <Captainkrtek> already sent :/
[02:56] <jbicha> I meant "introduce yourself to the guys using gitorious" but it's good anyway
[02:56] <Captainkrtek> ohhhhh
[02:56] <Captainkrtek> whoooooops
[02:58] <jbicha> because I'm not part of the Evolution docs rewrite, just mentioned it as an example
[02:58] <Captainkrtek> thought you meant for the Ubuntu-docs team
[02:58] <Captainkrtek> whoopsie...
[07:43] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, you online?
[07:44] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, if so: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~steven.richards/+junk/gnome-help/revision/1562
[07:44] <Captainkrtek> fixed that drivers page, or just check your email
[22:32] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, you here?
[23:42] <Captainkrtek> hey Rocket2DMn you have commit rights ?
[23:44] <Rocket2DMn> hi Captainkrtek , yes i do
[23:45] <Captainkrtek> could you look at this patch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~steven.richards/+junk/gnome-help/revision/1562
[23:46] <Rocket2DMn> i'm seeing some spelling mistakes
[23:46] <Captainkrtek> oh
[23:46] <Captainkrtek> let me fix those
[23:46] <Rocket2DMn> "that beings with" "for thee word"...
[23:47] <Captainkrtek> whoops
[23:47] <Rocket2DMn>  Hardward section
[23:48] <Captainkrtek> ill fix all those, one sec
[23:49] <Rocket2DMn>  <item>
1. Run the command  - you dont need to number the list manualy
[23:49] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, I ported this document from the official wiki
[23:49] <Captainkrtek> I know, I had some issues with getting sub-lists
[23:50] <Rocket2DMn> i expect you should be able to embed lists in mallard
[23:50] <Captainkrtek> I tried using <tree>
[23:50] <Rocket2DMn> tbh i'm not a big fan of porting much wiki documentation to the system docs, so much of it is very specific and difficult to maintain
[23:50] <Captainkrtek> it was a syntax nightmare to embed it
[23:50] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[23:51] <Rocket2DMn> anyway, you could probably do <list><item>
<list>...
[23:51] <Rocket2DMn> may not need the

[23:51] <Captainkrtek> tried
[23:51] <Captainkrtek> didn't work
[23:51] <Captainkrtek> :/
[23:52] <Rocket2DMn> hmm documentation seems to indicate that you can
[23:52] <Captainkrtek> I did follow the documentation
[23:52] <Captainkrtek> let me try again
[23:53] <Rocket2DMn> looks like there is a "type" attribute so you can number the list with "numbered" value if that's what oy uwant
[23:53] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[23:54] <Captainkrtek> <list type="numbered">
[23:54] <Captainkrtek> im trying it again
[23:55] <Rocket2DMn> i would take out all the links to the wiki anchors
[23:55] <Captainkrtek> all the other wiki docs online?
[23:55] <Rocket2DMn> not saying dont link to the wiki where appropriate, but were you have something like: Run the command <link href="https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Wireless
[23:55] <Rocket2DMn>
[23:55] <Rocket2DMn> 122
[23:55] <Rocket2DMn> TroubleShootingGuide/Commands#iwlist">sudo iwlist</link>
[23:56] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[23:56] <Captainkrtek> true
[23:56] <Rocket2DMn> not sure if that's just the diff causing problems, but i wouldnt break up a link across lines either
[23:57] <Rocket2DMn> that's a rather large diff, i dont really have time to review it all right now, i literally just walked in from work when i logged in, gotta go make some dinner here shortly
[23:57] <Captainkrtek> okay no problem
[23:57] <Captainkrtek> ill keep working on it
[23:58] <Rocket2DMn> in any case, i wouldnt let the directions get too technical, there is no need to maintain complex directions in the system docs ,you can always link to the wiki for additional support
[23:59] <Rocket2DMn> common troubleshooting steps are good to have though
[23:59] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[23:59] <Captainkrtek> true
[23:59] <Captainkrtek> ill remove some of the steps
[23:59] <Rocket2DMn> like i said, i havent reviewed it all, there could be some great directions in there, it's difficult to see from the diff how complex or difficult they are to follow


[13:23] <`marianne`> hello!
[19:52] <AlanBell> hi `marianne`
[19:52]  * AlanBell always likes to be reminded where to find the backtick key
[20:00] <JanC> AlanBell: it's AltGr+µ (on a Belgian keyboard)  :P
[20:08] <maco> its unshift ~ on a US keyboard
[20:58] <AlanBell> unshifted ¬ on mine
[21:20] <maco> AlanBell: why is that even a main key on your layout?
[21:20] <maco> how many people REALLY do ...whatever kind of math that is.. frequently enough to warrant that?
[21:20] <AlanBell> because I am a crazy brit
[21:21] <AlanBell> set negation operator or something I think
[21:22] <AlanBell> nope, just logical "NOT"
[21:22] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negation
[21:23] <maco> when is it *used* for logical not outside of set theory?
[21:23] <maco> programmers use !
[21:23] <maco> normal people type the word "not"
[21:23]  * AlanBell has ¬ever used it
[21:24] <maco> its like having the upside U for intersection on the keyboard. some maths professor somewhere is happy, and everyone else is confused
[21:50] <JanC> maco: I guess it reflects what people were using computers in the early 1980s...
[21:51] <maco> american keyboards on computers almost completely match typewriters, with one exception: 1 and l are two different keys
[21:51] <JanC> eh
[21:52] <JanC> maco: my parents have an ancient American typewriter, which has separate 1 & l  :P
[21:53] <JanC> an "Underwood" machine
[21:53] <maco> oh, mine just has an l key
[21:53] <JanC> IIRC
[21:54] <JanC> maybe also depends on how old it is
[21:55] <maco> mine's late 80s
[21:55] <maco> i think
[21:57] <JanC> maco: eh, late 1880s or 1980s ?  ;)
[21:57] <maco> 1980s :P
[21:58] <JanC> the machine I'm talking about is definately closer to 100 yo than 30 yo  :P
[22:00] <JanC> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/The_Childrens_Museum_of_Indianapolis_-_Typewriter.jpg --> this looks more or less like it
[22:03] <maco> yeah, mine's electric
[22:03] <JanC> actually, it seems like many of their models lack a "1" key indeed
[22:05] <JanC> I thought it had a "1" key, maybe I should re-check, but I don't remember lacking it
[22:05] <JanC> or maybe they had different models outside the US


[00:42] <arraybolt3> oh I see what went wrong on IRC
[00:42] <arraybolt3> I was typing into the wrong channel the whole time
[00:42] <arraybolt3> mmikowski:
[01:07] <mmikowski> Hey arraybolt3, I think others would love to see your current mockup! Could you post for sgmoore and others?
[01:08] <mmikowski> RikMills ^^
[01:10] <arraybolt3> sorry, had some pending stuff suck me away for a bit
[01:10] <arraybolt3> mockups incoming
[01:12] <arraybolt3> sgmoore, RikMills, mmikowski: Michael and I spent about two and a half hours doing some design revamp work for the installer prompt, currently this is what it looks like: https://i.imgur.com/RhiLWj8.jpeg
 Love it!
[01:16] <mmikowski> Looks great Aaron. The only visual tweak that is probably really useful is adding a white outline to the Try/Install icons.
[01:16] <mmikowski> Looks better than the initial mockups at this point though!
[13:56] <sgmoore> arraybolt3: Good morning, so I just updated the nvidia drivers in the seed, which *may* fix the issues on that computer. They were still the version from 22.04.
[14:03] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[22:39] <mmikowski> RikMills sgmoore arraybolt3 link for Kubuntu 22.04.4 download is broken (see  new.reddit.com/r/Kubuntu/comments/1axfy70/getting_404_when_click_on_download_link/). Can one of you fix it?
[23:42] <mparillo> Could you test in a couple of hours?
[23:44] <santa_> hi everyone
[23:46] <santa_> sgmoore: thanks for the explanation and for not taking offense in my comments :) looking forward to work with you like we did in the beginnings of kf5 in Kubuntu
[23:48] <santa_> RikMills, sgmoore and everyone else: I really need to go offline now for some days
[23:49] <santa_> I'm moving back to the city where I grew up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsf78BS9VE0
[23:49] <santa_> see you in some days
[23:49] <mparillo> I also updated the alternative downloads page. In the past, it took hours to propagate.


[03:51] <xcub> So I plan on porting software to ubuntu using snapcraft. Can someone verify for me that snapcraft is available for all Ubuntu distributions, and not just Ubuntu Core. I am worried that I may have to install a whole new operating system just to complete a simple task.
[03:52] <xcub> Also, is any snappy package created using snapcraft compatible to run in all Ubuntu operating systems. The documentation makes it look like snapcraft is exclusive to Ubuntu Core
[04:21] <woodrowshen> xcub: hi, snapcraft is available via ubuntu 14.04+
[04:23] <xcub> so if I package something in 15.10, it will be available fore Ubuntu Core and all other Ubuntu versions as well?
[04:42] <woodrowshen> xcub: i think the snapcraft is a helper to package snap for Ubuntu core, and i'm not sure if it can available for other Ubuntu versions.
[07:29] <dholbach> good morning
[08:55] <Chipaca> ogra_: mo'in!
[08:56] <Chipaca> ogra_: do you remember, when I pulled the "mbuahaha now every file we write uses AtomicWriteFile" malarkey?
[08:56] <Chipaca> ogra_: you had to scramble to clean up my mess
[08:56] <Chipaca> ogasawara__: do you remember what it consisted of? was it just watchdog?
[08:56] <Chipaca> ogra_ i mean
[08:56] <Chipaca> ogra_: because now we need the same thing done for 15.04 :-)
[10:05] <ogra_> Chipaca, hmm, i thought 15.04 had it
[10:05] <Chipaca> ogra_: from what we can tell it does, but as testing this is slow (needs image build), i thought i'd check with you first
[10:05] <Chipaca> ogra_: the change in ubuntu-core-config is there
[10:06] <Chipaca> ogra_: was there also a change in the livecd thing?
[10:06] <ogra_> it is in live-build/ubuntu-core/hooks/08-etc-writable.chroot ... let me check the PPA package
[10:07] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Monkey Day! 😃
[10:11] <ogra_> Chipaca, xenial vs 15.04 ... looks identical to me http://paste.ubuntu.com/14002856/
[10:12] <Chipaca> ogra_: diff agrees with you
[10:51] <ogra_> Chipaca, so whats the symptom you see on 15.04 ?
[10:52] <Chipaca> ogra_: dinosaurs everywhere! also the air is much more oxigen-rich
[10:52] <ogra_> lol
[11:08] <Chipaca> ogra_: seriously though, ricmm and mvo know more. All I know is they need this fix.
[11:08] <ogra_> well, this fix is there ...
[11:08] <Chipaca> ogra_: the "use atomic writes everywhere" was not in 15.04
[11:08] <ogra_> the question is ... are others missing ... i guess
[11:08] <Chipaca> ogra_: the artifacts were
[11:09] <Chipaca> that is, livecd and ubuntu-core-config had the right bits
[11:09] <Chipaca> but we never backported the fix until now
[11:09] <Chipaca> the _snappy_ fix i mean
[11:09] <ogra_> well, the watchdog files are definitely prepared for atomic
[11:09] <Chipaca> yep
[11:09] <Chipaca> and timezone is a symlink already
[11:09] <ogra_> like hostname
[11:09] <Chipaca> yep
[11:21] <ogra_> Chipaca, mvo_ had an issue with upgradin the initzrd on the weekend ... i belive thats another incarnation of our s-i delta generation bug (the file is always called initrd.img so s-i doesnt consider it for a delta)
[11:22] <ogra_> this is why sergio once switched everything to named files (which exploded i other ways)
[11:22] <ogra_> *in
[11:22] <ogra_> in that light ... the fix could be there but not applied
[11:24] <ogra_> (oops, my brain silently moved on ... i mean the fix that mounts /etc early in the boot (and makes the files actually writable)
[11:30] <mvo_> ogra_: either that or a test artifact from me hacking up the system
[11:31] <ogra_> well, disassemble the running initrd, that will tell
[13:38] <kyrofa> Chipaca, port negotiation isn't done yet, correct?
[13:38] <Chipaca> kyrofa: correct. Existence of a ports stanza is used to order services, nothing more
[13:39] <kyrofa> Chipaca, "order services?" I don't understand
[13:39] <Chipaca> kyrofa: if your snap says it has an external port, it's started after wait4network
[13:39] <kyrofa> Ahh
[13:39] <kyrofa> Chipaca, okay thank you! :)
[13:43] <kyrofa> Chipaca, one more question: assuming you've thought at all about port negotiation, if I setup my .snap to have the port configurable via snappy config, would I be most of the way there when snappy supports negotiation?
[13:44] <Chipaca> kyrofa: there's too many open questions for me to hazard an answer i'm afraid
[13:44] <Chipaca> kyrofa: do whatever is easiest for you today
[13:44] <kyrofa> Chipaca, understood, thank you
[14:30] <plars> elopio: did something break with the bbb images? or is it just me? All of my runs seem to be failing on bbb lately
[14:30] <ogra_> how
[14:30] <elopio> plars: failed to flash? The channels are giving a hard time to udf.
[14:31] <plars> elopio: no, failed to boot
[14:31] <ogra_> yeah, you need /stable appended to the oem name
[14:32] <plars> ogra_: oh?
[14:33] <ogra_> but that would fail your build already ... not the boot
[14:34] <plars> ogra_: so --oem beagleblack/stable
[14:34] <ogra_> yeah
[14:34] <ogra_> but that changed a week ago or so
[14:34] <plars> ogra_: that's about how long it's been failing
[14:34] <plars> let me try
[14:34] <ogra_> well, but why does it not fail the build then
[14:34] <ogra_> u-d-f should bark loudly
[14:37] <plars> ogra_: not sure, I'll check on that
[15:03] <kyrofa> elopio, sergiusens you guys are over a half hour late, come on now
[15:03] <jdstrand> kyrofa: regarding https://launchpad.net/bugs/1466234, the remaining bits the snappy foundations team said they'd handle. mvo, do you recall that? ^
[15:10] <sergiusens> kyrofa, lol
[15:10] <sergiusens> kyrofa, are we doing it now?
[15:11] <kyrofa> sergiusens, yeah, hop in!
[15:11] <sergiusens> elopio, ^
[15:11] <sergiusens> kyrofa, let me get some water and I'll join
[15:11] <kyrofa> sergiusens, sounds good :)
[15:25] <plars> ogra_: it doesn't seem to complain at all with --oem beagleblack
[15:25] <plars> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/jh4UVv7W/
[15:25] <ogra_> weird
[15:26] <ogra_> i definitely need it here
[15:30] <elopio> fgimenez: give me a couple of minutes.
[15:31] <fgimenez> elopio, ok i'm not yet there either :)
[15:31] <elopio> fgimenez: I am now :)
[15:40] <liuxg> in snappy, why do use "sudo" without inputting a password?
[16:15] <stevebiscuit> sergiusens, mvo_: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenwilkin/webdm/use-latest-snappy/+merge/280460
[16:16] <stevebiscuit> ^^ managed to get webdm building against latest snappy, AppArmor stuff is ropey though
[16:29] <mvo_> stevebiscuit: nice! good stuff. I need to leave for dinner soon no proper review from me just yet ut from a quick glance it looks good
[16:30] <stevebiscuit> mvo_: cheers!
[16:34] <stevebiscuit> mvo_: the next step in getting webdm using the snapd API is to decide wether to extend the client lib in snappy to handle the application endpoint and use that in webdm or to manage all the HTTP-over-unix-socket within webdm itself
[16:57] <ogra_> stevebiscuit, mvo_, could we make sure to get webdm on arm64 ? (i noticed it isnt in snappy search output)
[16:58] <beuno> ogra_, we'll likely need the launchpad builders set up for that
[16:58] <beuno> it's WIP by cjwatson
[16:58] <ogra_> oh
[16:58] <beuno> we haven't shipped stevebiscuit any hardware yet
[16:58] <ogra_> we should ;)
[16:58] <beuno> if we don't, we might actually fix things properly!
[17:02] <kyrofa> jdstrand, alright thanks for the update. mvo, safe to assume no progress there?
[17:03] <plars> ogra_: elopio: So y'all are able to boot from the sd with current snappy on bbb? Out of curiosity, have you tried booting with the s2 button held down so you actually load the bootloader off of the sd?
[17:08] <ogra_> plars, i havent booted a BBB in a while, but i cant build any imae here without appending /stable to the oem
[17:09] <ogra_> how exactly does your boot fail ?
[17:10] <mvo_> kyrofa: no progress on #1466234 no
[17:10] <mvo_> jdstrand: -^
[17:10] <kyrofa> Alright, thanks mvo_ :)
[17:11] <mvo_> kyrofa: will you fix it? if so \o/
[17:11] <jdstrand> mvo_: thanks
[17:12] <marchesini> hi! im trying do some stuff on the raspberry pi with ubuntu core, but the new package manager "snappy" doesn't have the package apache, lighhtp, glassfish or mysql... how can i install this apps on my raspb?
[17:13] <kyrofa> mvo_, I'd be happy to. Are you in tomorrow? Maybe we can sync real quick about it?
[17:13] <kyrofa> (tomorrow I mean, I know you're essentially out today)
[17:13] <mvo_> kyrofa: unfortunately not, we could catchup quickly when I'm back later, I play hockey now
[17:13] <kyrofa> mvo_, that would be great if you can swing it :)
[17:14] <mvo_> kyrofa: I ping you when I'm back :)
[17:14] <plars> ogra_: elopio: This is what I'm seeing: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14008126/
[17:14] <kyrofa> mvo_, excellent, talk then. Enjoy hockey!
[17:15] <mvo_> I will, thanks
[17:15] <sergiusens> stevebiscuit, will check in a bit
[17:15] <ogra_> plars, well, thats clearly the kernel
[17:16] <stevebiscuit> sergiusens: appreciated!
[17:16] <marchesini> before when i work with apt-get i only need write apt-get install apache2 on the console, and all will be done. but now with this snappy the things is little bit confusing
[17:17] <ogra_> marchesini, you would have to create a snap package that contains what you need
[17:17] <marchesini> ogra_, you mean that i need download the DEB packages of apache and rebuild with the snappy format?
[17:18] <ogra_> no, there is a tool that can do it for you ...
[17:18] <ogra_> but you wouldnt just build an apache snap
[17:19] <marchesini> i see on my raspb that it have the dpkg, i can install deb packages with dpkg?
[17:19] <ogra_> but rather work a little more project oriented ... i.e. you want to run a forum that requires to use apache, mysql, php, then you would build a forum.snap package that contains all of them and creates a good default setup
[17:19] <ogra_> not in snappy, no
[17:20] <ogra_> there is work going on that supports a mode where you can use debs too, to have an environment to create snap packages more easily
[17:20] <ogra_> but you wont be able to use deb right inside snappy itself
[17:26] <marchesini> well, if i understand what you say, the snappy manager have built for newbies to install a full environment on the system. like if i need wordpress, then someone already build a package with mysql, php, apache and wordpress...
[17:28] <marchesini> it's a new way to do common things
[17:29] <marchesini> but I keep thinking that this system should have a package manager like apt-get
[18:46] <elopio> plars: is that bbb rolling edge #255?
[19:07] <plars> elopio: yes
[19:11] <elopio> plars: yes, Fixing recursive fault but reboot is needed. Please report a bug.
[19:11] <plars> elopio: are you able to reproduce that? or is it something funny with my setup?
[19:12] <elopio> plars: I've just reproduced it.
[19:12] <plars> elopio: will do, one sec and I'll send you the link
[19:17] <plars> elopio: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1526027
[20:18] <sergiusens> elopio, can you explain this to me? it works locally https://travis-ci.org/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/jobs/96815858
[20:29] <Rob1507>  Hello there. Anyone online
[20:29] <Rob1507> ?
[20:31] <beuno> Rob1507, sure what's up?
[20:33] <Rob1507> I am beginner and want to use Snapcraft. I need to choose go project but don't have idea which one is fine. Can you help?
[20:34] <beuno> Rob1507, we can try. What part are you stuck on?
[20:35] <Rob1507> beuno, I understood everything, but it is hard to find a good project to try everything by myself.
[20:37] <beuno> Rob1507, you'll need to be more specific
[20:37] <beuno> I don't really know what to help you with
[20:39] <Rob1507> beuno, Can you suggest a project that is like ones in snapcraft-examples?
[21:51] <wililupy> Can we not "setcap" in snappy?
[22:07] <jdstrand> sergiusens: hey, so I'm preparing a review tools update for xenial that understands all snaps
[22:08] <jdstrand> sergiusens: we discussed me putting them in tools-proposed, but I want to make sure I put them in the right place. iirc, snapcraft for all snaps isn't being put everywhere. can you clarify?
[22:17] <mvo> kyrofa: uh, I forgot to ping you, sorry. I'm here now (for ~45min or so)
[22:29] <jdstrand> mvo: hey, do you want me to approve canonical-pc.canonical?
[22:31] <jdstrand> mvo: and canonical-linux-pc.canonical? (I thought kernels were going to start with linux-...)
[22:32] <jdstrand> mvo: note, your kernel snap should be using 'architectures'
[22:35] <jdstrand> pindonga: hey, fyi, uploaded review tools 0.35 to xenial. this is at r562. there are a couple of very minor fixes in there. fyi for a pull at your convenience
[23:32] <sergiusens> jdstrand, snapcraft for all snaps is going to be xenial only
[23:54] <codeofdusk> Need help packaging something for Snapcraft, not sure about best practices.


[09:37] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Poetry At Work Day! :-D
[11:10] <amjjawad> hi
[11:11] <amjjawad> Ubuntu One is down? I can't login - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2199483
[11:12] <davmor2> amjjawad: indeed might be updating
[11:13] <amjjawad> davmor2, hi and thanks for replying
[11:13] <amjjawad> But just for the record, I can login to Launchpad and Ubuntu Forums but can't update Ubuntu GNOME Website
[11:14] <amjjawad> to update Ubuntu GNOME website, I must be logged in first to Ubuntu One as updating the website is strict to myself and another team leader of Ubuntu GNOME
[11:25] <davmor2> amjjawad: could you try again now please it was an update in progress and it looks like a bug in the RO mode.  fingers crossed it has finished now, I can log in to sites at any rate that I couldn't before
[11:26] <amjjawad> davmor2, indeed it works :D
[11:26] <amjjawad> thanks  a lot :)


[09:53] <MACscr> Ok, so i installed vanilla ubuntu 14.04 on my laptop and its a bit to slow, so did apt-get install lubuntu-desktop and rebooted. it still seemed to load unity 3d. Is there a step i am missing?
[09:55] <silverlion> MACscr : on that login page there must be a way to change the setting in the upper right corner of your screen
[09:55] <silverlion> at least that's where I change the DEs
[09:56] <MACscr> ah, i missed that. Can i select the default there?
[09:57] <silverlion> affirmative
[13:49] <lion> hey peeps
[19:34] <ForTheWin> hi
[19:35] <ForTheWin> how do i change my gfx driver? i had to xforcevesa just to boot
[20:01] <ForTheWin> my nvidia legacy binary driver version 304 has been applying changes for half an hour now and the progress bar hasnt budged a millimeter, help please?
[20:11] <testdr> ForTheWin: nvidia Version 304 is an old one - thats out of my history - version 330+x is up to date
[22:30] <Fudge> pcmanfm 1.2.2+bzr1387+201409300516~ubuntu14.04.1         seeing strange behaviour  "error desktop manager is not active"
[22:30] <ianorlin> Fudge: you are in the lxde session and not openbox
[22:31] <Fudge> actually in unity
[22:33] <ianorlin>  yeah pcmanfm doesn't draw the desktop in unity
[22:35] <Fudge> is there a switch to disable it trying
[22:35] <Fudge> what it is trying to do is this rob       5687  0.1  0.2<PHONE_NUMBER>2 ?        Sl   09:32   0:00 pcmanfm --set-wallpaper /home/rob/.config/variety/Downloaded/nasa_apod/HyadesLodriguss.jpg
[22:36] <Fudge> ah --desktop-off
[23:03] <Hulksmash> hi, as i put 10gb primary ext4 mount point / the rest of my free space becomes unusable
[23:04] <Hulksmash> i need to make 2 logical positions ext4 /home and ext2 swap
[23:04] <Hulksmash> partitions i mean
[23:12] <Hulksmash> guess i had to adds the 2 logical partitions first before making the primary(which was 4th primary)
[23:15] <phillw> Hulksmash: not making a lot of sense...
[23:16] <phillw> as swap is 'swap' it is not ext2 etc.
[23:33] <Hulksmash> i installed lubuntu but it won't boot imgur.com/oLgoYLV help please
[23:36] <Hulksmash> phillw: thank you, noted
[23:36] <Hulksmash> i still need help :(
[23:38] <phillw> Hulksmash: are you booting from CD or USB?
[23:44] <Hulksmash> phillw: usb boot works but post install boot hdd doesn't
[23:45] <phillw> Hulksmash: when you boot the usb device, ask it to do a "check CD". that way we know your USB is not corrupt.
[23:45] <Hulksmash> phillw: i've used this usb to install many distros
[23:45] <phillw> usb writing is some what hit and miss at the moment
[23:46] <phillw> Hulksmash: that matters not, it is if the ISO is corrupted that we need to check... only takes a few minutes :)
[23:47] <Hulksmash> phillw: ok how do i check cd
[23:48] <phillw> boot with it and select 'check CD', this also works on DVD / USB sticks, just a legacy name for doing the full md5 checksum.
[23:50] <Hulksmash> check disc for defects
[23:51] <Hulksmash> no errors found
[23:52] <Hulksmash> it seems to be a problem with uuid?
[23:52] <phillw> Hulksmash: good, that means we have a good ISO to install from
[23:54] <phillw> I'm not familiar with your partition table, can you paste bin up your partition table....
[23:54] <phillw> sudo fdisk -l
[23:59] <Hulksmash> imgur.com/n0dvdB3


[12:25] <LaserJock> hi Se7h
[12:25] <Se7h> hey LaserJock
[12:25] <Se7h> got my xgl running here
[12:31] <Se7h> btw LaserJock, I've uploaded the python lib i was workin on
[12:31] <LaserJock> good
[12:32] <Se7h> how much time takes to get a review on whats uploaded?
[12:37] <LaserJock> well, depends on how much you bug MOTUs ;-)
[12:37] <Se7h> jeje
[12:39] <Se7h> i ask this cus python-pymedia is still as 'new'
[12:41] <LaserJock> Se7h: well, it wouldn't go in Dapper
[12:42] <Se7h> LaserJock no? why not?
[12:43] <LaserJock> Se7h: we are past Feature Freeze
[12:43] <LaserJock> oh wait, it is just an update right?
[12:44] <Se7h> no, the spe was an update, this is a first release
[12:44] <LaserJock> oh, ok
[12:45] <LaserJock> so yeah, it would take an exception to get it in dapper
[12:45] <LaserJock> at this point in the release we are just trying to fix bugs, etc.
[12:45] <Se7h> hmm ok
[12:46] <Se7h> i dunno if you know it, but since alot a people, including the developer was asking me to add it..
[12:46] <Se7h> pymedia is a well made multimedia python lib
[12:48] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what the policy is right now about it new packages
[12:49] <LaserJock> why did you make it  native package (no .orig.tar.gz)?
[12:50] <Se7h> the main dev has its orig source tarball yea
[12:51] <Se7h> if thats what u'r asking
[12:52] <Amaranth> remove it
[12:52] <LaserJock> Se7h: I'm saying that you probably want to make a non-native package
[12:52] <Amaranth> remove it, package a new source tarball
[12:52] <Amaranth> err, create a new source tarball
[12:53] <LaserJock> Se7h: you want the .orig.tar.gz that is the same as the one you download
[12:53] <Amaranth> then add it back in, so it becomes a non-native package and has a proper diff and everything
[12:53] <Amaranth> nevermind...
[12:53] <LaserJock> yeah, what Amaranth said ;-)
[01:01] <Kyral> Oy..
[01:01] <Kyral> I hate installing the GTK2 libs..I keep forgetting what the package is lol
[01:24] <slomo> siretart: i object in using internal faad for mplayer! we should better patch the external one with all this bugfixes...
[01:24] <Kyral> whee time to go sketchy
[01:24] <Kyral> rebuilding Sid libs for dapper
[01:25] <jabra> can I request a module for someone to package?
[01:28] <kelmo> jabra: what is it?
[01:29] <minghua> jabra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
[01:29] <jabra> it is nmap::parser
[01:32] <Kyral> if anyone cares..the latest libneon from Sid builds and installs fine on Dapper
[01:34] <slomo> Kyral: so what? :)
[01:34] <Kyral> just lettin' ya know
[01:34] <Kyral> Sid version is higher than Dapper version
[01:36] <slomo> Kyral: many of the latest sid packages build fine and install fine on dapper an have a newer version... but that doesn't mean they're better or more bugfree... but if you feel that we should get the latest version please file a uvf exception bugreport and ask for an exception with an explanation why you want it
[01:36] <Kyral> I'll see if it works fine when this thing I'm compiling is done :P
[01:37] <Kyral> which is BMPx if you are curious
[01:37] <minghua> what besides subversion uses libneon?
[01:37] <Kyral> BMPx :P
[01:37] <minghua> oh okay
[01:37] <slomo> minghua: gst-plugins-bad ;)
[01:37] <minghua> slomo: Hmm... didn't know that
[01:37] <Kyral> and rumor has it that BMPx is soon to be in Sid
[01:39] <slomo> Kyral: it must go through NEW before... which could take ages... but do the bmpx guys use gstreamer now? or their own media framework?
[01:39] <Kyral> GStreamer
[01:39] <Kyral> it requires the -base, -good, -bad, and -ugly packs
[01:40] <slomo> Kyral: it "requires" -bad?
[01:40] <Kyral> well they say for "Maximum playibitity"
[01:40] <Kyral> and yes I know I misspelled that like CRAZY
[01:40] <slomo> yes, that's true for now unfortunately :/ -bad has some important things :)
[01:42] <Kyral> http://bmpx.beep-media-player.org/site/Downloads
[01:42] <Kyral> look at the Debian section
[01:43] <slomo> ok... hm, what's the difference between bmp and bmpx?
[01:43] <slomo> we now have at least 4 "xmms" projects... xmms, xmms2, bmp and bmpx ;)
[01:44] <LaserJock> I thought bmpx was a rewrite
[01:44] <Kyral> It seems BMPx only uses like 3% of XMMS code
[01:45] <slomo> hm, so it's a winamp-interface-player using gst?
[01:47] <Kyral> meh no like me
[01:47] <Kyral> Unstable it is
[01:51] <Kyral> yanno
[01:51] <Kyral> why mess with perfection *apt-get install beep-media-player*
[01:53] <Kyral> and the original BMP is now called "Audacious"
[01:59] <Kyral> oy,,,and now I'm jumping between Mail Clients like crazy
[01:59] <Amaranth> banshee > *
[03:00] <Kyral> Amaranth: it seemed like banshee had problems
[03:00] <Kyral> as in like "skipping"
[03:00] <Amaranth> err
[03:00] <Amaranth> nothing here
[03:00] <Amaranth> what are your specs?
[03:00] <Kyral> I dunno
[03:00] <Kyral> system?
[03:01] <Kyral> I dumped them in #uf
[03:03] <chillywilly> ello
[03:06] <Amaranth> Kyral: I've only got a 1.42Ghz G4 so banshee wasn't skipping because your computer is too slow. :)
[03:06] <Amaranth> Kyral: does rhythmbox skip on the same songs?
[03:07] <Kyral> Amaranth: no...
[03:08] <Amaranth> Kyral: When was the last time you tried banshee?
[03:08] <Amaranth> Maybe it was a fluke or has already been fixed
[03:11] <Kyral> Sylpheed is nice...but it always "sorts and processes"
[03:12] <Kyral> or is that a property of the MailDir format?
[04:15] <Erlang> Sorry if that sounds silly, but where are the buildd logs??
[04:16] <Hobbsee> Erlang: here?  http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
[04:17] <Hobbsee> there could be some somewhere on launchpad too
[04:17] <Erlang> There are not linked where I've found them on launchpad.
[04:17] <Erlang> where I found to supposed link to it I mean...
[04:18] <Erlang> thank you
[04:24] <crimsun> Erlang: each source package has a link
[04:24] <crimsun> the ~lamont link is obsoleted because of soyuz
[04:27] <minghua> crimsun: do you happen to still have wesnoth 1.0.2-1ubuntu1 source package around? :-)
[04:28] <Erlang> crimsun: it's 'not available'.
[04:28] <Erlang> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/150185
[04:30] <crimsun> Erlang: does it introduce new binary packages? (i.e., NEW)
[04:30] <crimsun> minghua: I might, but I can't check atm because my amd64 pbuilder is offline
[04:31] <Erlang> It introduces the binary package yudit 2.7.8-1... i guess
[04:31] <minghua> crimsun: or if you still remember what "Restore scenario-test.cfg for -t switch." is about
[04:32] <minghua> basically I am working on reverting wesnoth from 1.1 to 1.0.2
[04:32] <minghua> crimsun: looking at other changelogs it seems to be bug #1213
[04:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1213 in wesnoth "wesnoth option -t does not work (error: "Unknown scenario: 'test'")" [Minor,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1213
[04:33] <crimsun> minghua: I believe bmonty worked his magic for that one
[04:34] <minghua> crimsun: thank, I'll ask him then
[04:35] <minghua> I wonder if I should keep all the changelogs for 1.1 if I revert to 1.0.2
[04:36] <minghua> maybe I should
[04:37] <slomo_> yes
[05:03] <dolson> cripes, it happened before
[05:07] <ajmitch> afternoon
[05:09] <whiprush> hi ajmitch
[05:09] <ajmitch> hey whiprush, how's it going?
[05:09] <whiprush> good, yourself?
[05:09] <ajmitch> alright
[05:10] <Erlang> ah my karma just felt
[05:11] <whiprush> ajmitch: hey has anyone heard form \sh lately?
[05:11] <whiprush> I am concerned
[05:11] <ajmitch> nope, not that I know of
[05:11] <whiprush> :-/
[05:12] <ToadZzZztool> gn8
[05:30] <minghua> bug 36671
[05:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36671 in xchat "no german language for xchat" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36671
[05:31] <minghua> seems yes - Debian's xchat package doesn't have any .mo file
[05:57] <trappist> is there any documentation on how to use debdiff?  I've been using ye olde diff to attach patches to bugs, and I know it's not ideal, but I can't seem to find a good debdiff doc.
[05:57] <LaserJock> man debdiff ;-)
[05:58] <LaserJock> but basically "debdiff package1.dsc package2.dsc" for source packages
[05:58] <trappist> yeah that says it diffs between .debs and .udebs, and I don't have one of those
[05:58] <trappist> ah!
[05:58] <trappist> that's what I was looking for.  thanks!
[05:58] <LaserJock> trappist: np
[05:59] <LaserJock> I need to know how to get rid of characters from a different encoding or something
[06:00] <LaserJock> i've got a bunch of <C2><A0> where I should have a space
[06:00] <minghua> easy if you know which charset they are in...
[06:01] <minghua> actually sounds a little like chinese...
[06:01] <trappist> it's great fun trying to match those with regular expressions
[06:02] <LaserJock> hmm, if I open it in emacs it gives \302\240
[06:02] <minghua> Nah.  In zh_CN wide space is A1A1, zh_TW A140
[06:03] <LaserJock> acording to pine it is ANSI_X3.4-1968
[06:03] <minghua> 0xC2 == 0302, so that sounds right
[06:05] <LaserJock> anybody know what I can do with it?
[06:06] <minghua> you know what?  C2A0 is non-breaking space in UTF-8
[06:06] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:06] <minghua> LaserJock: so get a decent text viewer :-)
[06:06] <LaserJock> I got the file in an email so I wonder if it was UTF-8 but got sent as something else
[06:07] <trappist> LaserJock: so I do like, apt-get source packagename, put those files into a directory, do it again into another directory, do my editing on one of them and debdiff from a parent directory?
[06:07] <LaserJock> sure
[06:07] <trappist> ok
[06:07] <LaserJock> you can do it all in the same directory though
[06:07] <trappist> how
[06:08] <trappist> apt-get source will just clobber what I've already got, right?
[06:08] <minghua> you don't need to apt-get twice
[06:08] <LaserJock> well if you bump the version or something then you when you rebuild the source package it will have a different name
[06:08] <trappist> minghua: that's encouraging, since I'm working with kdebase
[06:08] <minghua> just change the version in debian/changelog and you'll get a different .diff.gz/.dsc, then debdiff
[06:09] <trappist> minghua: so I don't need two copies of the source to make a debdiff (the original and my changes)?
[06:09] <minghua> trappist: definitely not, you just need two .dsc/.diff.gz
[06:10] <LaserJock> trappist: yes but the source packages is the .diff.gz .dsc and .orig.tar.gz files
[06:10] <minghua> (I don't know if debdiff will untar them when it's run, though...)
[06:10] <LaserJock> trappist: debdiff will extract the source packages to /tmp
[06:10] <LaserJock> so you'll never see it ;-)
[06:11] <trappist> ok so correct me if I'm wrong here: apt-get source packagename.  edit my files, including the changelog.  copy(?!) the .dsc and the .diff.gz and run debdiff?
[06:11] <LaserJock> s/copy(?!)/build new source package/
[06:12] <trappist> oh, this is starting to make sense - how to do that
[06:12] <LaserJock> debuild -S is the easiest
[06:12] <trappist> ok cool
[06:12] <LaserJock> in the source directory
[06:13] <trappist> and when I edit the changelog, I do it as though I expect it to be patched as-is, incrementing build numbers and such?
[06:14] <LaserJock> trappist: kinda depends on what your doing
[06:14] <LaserJock> trappist: what are you trying to do?
[06:14] <trappist> just fixing a doc problem in kmenuedit
[06:15] <LaserJock> trappist: what is the current version?
[06:15] <trappist> 4:3.5.1-0ubuntu14
[06:15] <LaserJock> so do 3.5.1-0ubuntu15
[06:16] <trappist> yeah that's what I had
[06:17] <Se7h> i hope gaim2 to be that good for the so long delay on the release
[06:19] <Se7h> LaserJock is there any list to check the needing-fix programs on the repo ?
[06:19] <LaserJock> Se7h: I think that is called Malone ;-)
[06:20] <Se7h> malone? :o
[06:20] <LaserJock> there is also an unmet dep list somewhere on revu
[06:22] <Se7h> tauware?
[06:23] <LaserJock> yeah, just a sec
[06:23] <LaserJock> Se7h: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/unmet/dapper-unmet.txt
[06:24] <trappist> wow debuild is way better than dpkg-buildpackage
[06:25] <trappist> which apparently requires sudo and doesn't want to sign the package
[06:27] <LaserJock> debuild is a wrapper around dpkg-buildpackage but it's what I use
[06:27] <Se7h> LaserJock those are dep that didn't reach universe?
[06:28] <LaserJock> Se7h: they are packages that aren't installable because of a dep problem of some kind. Sometimes the deps have had a name change or something like that
[06:28] <minghua> hmm... I've never used debuild before
[06:28] <Se7h> LaserJock thats the thing i dont get. Why do name changes. There should be a default for each
[06:29] <Se7h> minghua its good alright :)
[06:31] <trappist> one I saw today was a dep on libpango10-0 where we now have libpango12-0
[06:31] <trappist> err libpng
[06:32] <LaserJock> Se7h: we also had to do name changes for cxx transition
[06:33] <LaserJock> trappist: you can also do pdebuild if you want to also build the binary package. it is debuild+pbuilder
[06:34] <minghua> okay, this wesnoth seems to working
[06:34] <LaserJock> hmm, I still don't know what to do with this file :(
[06:34] <LaserJock> yeah!
[06:38] <Se7h> LaserJock what file?
[06:38] <LaserJock> I've got a file that has some different encoding or something
[06:39] <LaserJock> so it's full of <C2><A0>
[06:40] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure what the regexp would be to get rid of them :/
[06:45] <Se7h> those '<X>' mean something? or are just text editor codes?
[06:46] <Se7h> heres another app that should go into univ.
[06:47] <Se7h> 'pac - perl audio converter'
[06:47] <LaserJock> Se7h: no they are spaces
[06:48] <minghua> LaserJock: the file doesn't show correctly in gedit (using UTF-8 encoding, that is)?
[06:49] <LaserJock> I don't know about gedit but it doesn in vim or emacs
[06:49] <Se7h> LaserJock something like regrem = re.compile("<??>" (python)
[06:49] <minghua> LaserJock: try gedit ;-)
[06:51] <Se7h> a simple python script would do the job
[06:51] <Se7h> :p
[06:52] <LaserJock> Se7h: it would huh?
[06:52] <minghua> LaserJock: I believe Se7h (not that I can write such a python script) :-)
[06:53] <Se7h> LaserJock yes
[06:53] <LaserJock> minghua: dang, gedit worked fine
[06:53] <Se7h> yay \o/
[06:54] <minghua> hehe
[06:54] <LaserJock> but I tried to save it as something else but it still look weird in emacs and vim :/
[06:55] <minghua> actually I am surprised that vim has problem with it
[06:55] <Se7h> vim shows all encodings the text might have
[06:55] <minghua> LaserJock: when you open it in vim, what does ":set fileencoding" show?
[06:56] <minghua> vim is usually not very smart in automatically recognizing encodings
[06:56] <minghua> I suspect LaserJock's vim was using latin-1
[06:56] <minghua> or something similar
[06:57] <LaserJock> hmm, doesn't say anything
[06:57] <minghua> Hmm, apparently 40M takes a while to upload from a DSL line
[06:57] <Se7h> 40mb ? :o
[06:57] <LaserJock> but in gedit it says that the file is ASCII
[06:58] <minghua> LaserJock: try ":set fileencodings=utf-8", then use ":r file" to open it
[06:58] <minghua> well, gedit lied
[06:59] <Se7h> eheh, i just remembered my weather report tool (python made) :)
[07:02] <LaserJock> hmm, nothing seems to work
[07:02] <minghua> poor LaserJock
[07:03] <Se7h> LaserJock suck when that happens doesn' it? :>
[07:03] <LaserJock> this is so stupid
[07:03] <minghua> LaserJock: try iconv -f utf8 -t ascii file
[07:03] <minghua> LaserJock: maybe iconv will be smart enough to change the non-breaking spaces to ordinary ones
[07:04] <Se7h> didnt gedit fixed it ?
[07:04] <LaserJock> no
[07:04] <Se7h> [05:53:29]  <LaserJock> minghua: dang, gedit worked fine
[07:04] <Se7h> o.0
[07:05] <LaserJock> it views it fine
[07:05] <Se7h> then copy paste the text
[07:06] <LaserJock> minghua: no go, "iconv: illegal input sequence at position 1995" when it hits the bad characters
[07:07] <minghua> LaserJock: yeah, bad luck, then
[07:07] <Erlang> a bug that makes a package useless (SIGSEV at start) on an architecture is of what severity level?
[07:07] <minghua> LaserJock: go learn some python, perhaps?
[07:07] <minghua> :-P
[07:07] <Se7h> :)
[07:07] <Se7h> LaserJock want to send the file ?
[07:09] <minghua> "Accepted wesnoth 1.1+reverted+to+1.0.2-0ubuntu1 (source)"  Yay!
[07:11] <Se7h> Package python2.3-celementtree version 1.0.2-2build1 has an unmet dep:
[07:11] <Se7h>  Depends: python2.3-elementtree
[07:11] <Se7h> what the hell is this ?
[07:11] <Se7h> a package depending on itself?
[07:11] <Se7h> o.0
[07:11] <Erlang> ?
[07:12] <Se7h> oh forget it
[07:12] <Se7h> read it wonrg (im sleepy)
[07:13] <Se7h> *wrong
[07:13] <LaserJock> yeah, both of those are needed for bzr and I made the same mistake
[07:15] <Se7h> LaserJock want to send the file ?
[07:29] <ajmitch> LaserJock: the python-* mess is no surprise considering how many python2.3 packages have been stripped from main, with good reason
[07:31] <LaserJock> hmm, and I'm trying to add 2.3 to gausssum in Debian
[07:34] <Erlang> can anybody answer my question above?
[07:36] <minghua> Erlang: in debian or in ubuntu?
[07:36] <Erlang> Ubuntu
[07:37] <Erlang> "Critical, Major, Normal, Minor, Wishlist", that is.
[07:37] <LaserJock> I think it is for the devs
[07:39] <Erlang> I have not yet read anywhere that severity should only be set by devs.
[07:39] <minghua> if we are talking about bug 3442, I don't think changing the severity has any effect
[07:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3442 in praat "hangs on startup" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3442
[07:40] <Erlang> I've set 'Major' where a package becomes useless because of that bug.
[07:41] <Erlang> but in praat's case, it's only on AMD64... that is why I asked.
[10:19] <siretart> morning
[10:19] <crimsun> 'morning
[10:20] <siretart> slomo_: I asked on malone for opinions for external faad. neither you nor crimsum answered. So lets revert  that the next upload
[10:20] <siretart> hi crimsun!
[10:20] <zakame> hi all
[10:20] <crimsun> siretart: err, I haven't been getting such e-mails...
[10:20] <crimsun> (motu media, correct)
[10:21] <crimsun> hi zak
[10:22] <zakame> heya crimsun
[10:25] <crimsun> bug #34384
[10:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34384 in yelp "Yelp crashes on starting" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34384
[10:25] <crimsun> bug #27844
[10:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 27844 in yelp "No help topics are displayed in yelp" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/27844
[10:25] <siretart> crimsun: oh. interesting. do you receive motumedia mails at all?
[10:25] <crimsun> siretart: nope
[10:25] <siretart> hm. I thought so. slomo told me the same.. interesting
[10:26] <siretart> I'll check why
[11:04] <phanatic> hi people
[11:06] <zakame> heya phanatic
[11:06] <phanatic> hey zakame
[11:09] <Yagisan> G'day zakame, phanatic
[11:10] <phanatic> hello Yagisan
[11:10] <zakame> heya Yagisan
[11:11] <Yagisan> so what have we been up to today ?
[11:12] <siretart> crimsun: ah, I notice that you aren't subscribed at http://tauware.de/mailman/listinfo/motumedia at all
[11:13] <siretart> crimsun: that mailing list is the primary contact list for the motumedia launchpad team, every bug which the motumedia team is subscribed should send mails there
[11:13] <crimsun> that would do it
[11:13] <Yagisan> anyone here still use breezy ?
[11:14] <Yagisan> if so could you see if you can reproduce https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/36616
[11:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36616 in evolution "Repeated crashing on particular spam, if the preview window is open" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[11:15] <Yagisan> I'd love to know I'm not the only one suffering.
[11:16] <crimsun> siretart: done
[11:16] <siretart> should do it now. yes
[12:44] <Tm_T> here too? ;)
[01:45] <Tonio_> hello
[02:00] <Yagisan> ajmitch: any updates on your selinux work ?
[02:01] <Toadstool> hi here
[02:01] <jpatrick> hey Toadstool
[02:01] <Toadstool> o/ jpatrick
[02:02] <jpatrick> bbl, have to have lunch
[02:16] <slomo_> siretart: i'll get the external faad fixed today (with a bit of luck :) ). i only don't want to use the internal one to prevent code duplication. we had enough problems with ffmpeg in the past, no need to get another one ;)
[02:20] <siretart> slomo_: right, good idea
[02:25] <zakame> o/ Tonio_ Toadstool jpatrick
[02:25] <Toadstool> hi zakame
[02:25] <jpatrick> hi zakame
[02:26] <Tonio_> hello zakame :)
[02:27] <slomo_> siretart: btw, do you already have an idea why the media list doesn't like crimsun and me anymore?
[02:43] <siretart> 2006-03-26 14:38:50 1FNUWA-0008LF-99 <=<EMAIL_ADDRESS>H=vserver31.int-colo-nuernberg.priv (tauware.de) [<IP_ADDRESS>]  U=list P=esmtp S=2489<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:43] <siretart> 2006-03-26 14:39:00 1FNUWA-0008LF-99 =><EMAIL_ADDRESS>R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=fungus.sh.nu [<IP_ADDRESS>]  X=TLS-1.0:RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24
[02:43] <siretart> 2006-03-26 14:39:06 1FNUWA-0008LF-99 =><EMAIL_ADDRESS>R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=mail.slomosnail.de [<IP_ADDRESS>]  X=TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32
[02:43] <siretart> slomo_: and I'll happily show you more logs
[02:44] <siretart> slomo_: the problem with crimsum was that he wasn't subscribed. For you I can only suspect spam filters
[02:46] <slomo_> siretart: hm, i'll take a look at it later
[02:59] <slomo_> siretart: hmm... there is actually nothing in the faad2 code in mplayer that could fix anything like this... and the url to the mplayer mailinglist contains a patch for a demuxer in mplayer...
[03:00] <siretart> slomo_: then lets switch to external faad2 code and hope the submitter doesn't notice :)
[03:00] <slomo_> siretart: hehe... let me test some things before :) i'll switch back later
[03:01] <siretart> ok
[03:02] <slomo_> siretart: hm and the mplayer people use a way older faad version than we use...
[03:02] <siretart> slomo_: could be a regression in the faad code then
[03:02] <slomo_> siretart: i'm currently looking at the complete diff... could take some time :) (6000 lines)
[03:04] <slomo_> siretart: would really help to have a test video...
[03:06] <phanatic> hi people
[03:08] <siretart> slomo_: do you really care that much about faad? ;)
[03:09] <slomo_> siretart: i already spent hours on that thing... some more don't hurt now ;) and as more and more people get an ipod or use itunes aac becomes more important unfortunately :(
[03:11] <siretart> oh. right. didn't think about that
[03:12] <slomo_> siretart: someone should convince steve jobs to switch to ogg vorbis ;)
[03:13] <siretart> slomo_: ogg doesn't provide digital restrictions managment. something apples seems to be proud of
[03:13] <siretart> and ppl keep on buying that crap :(
[03:14] <slomo_> siretart: there is a drm implementation for ogg vorbis somewhere... but nobody uses it ;)
[03:15] <siretart> tell me why that doesn't surprise me..
[03:38] <slomo_> siretart: but i can confirm that with the internal faad one movie has sound... and with the external it doesn't
[03:54] <zakame> fellows, can you please check malone 35196
[03:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35196 in eclipse libswt3.1-gtk-java "Rebuild against firefox" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35196
[03:54] <zakame> I've attached a debdiff
[04:03] <bmonty> zakame: do you want people to test build it?
[04:03] <zakame> bmonty: if they can, yes
[04:04] <bmonty> zakame: ok
[04:12] <bmonty> zakame: building now
[04:15] <zakame> bmonty: thanks
[04:15] <zakame> bmonty: It'll take a while though, 2h maybe :/
[04:16] <slomo_> siretart: and somehow the movie works with gstreamer :) so i guess something in mplayer is broken...
[04:16] <phanatic> hi Gloubiboulga
[04:16] <Gloubiboulga> hi phanatic :)
[04:21] <bmonty> zakame: I got time :)
[04:21] <slomo_> siretart: so we better leave it that way for now... faad is fine, mplayer is broken and only wants to decode that file with it's bundled version...
[04:21] <zakame> bmonty: rocking
[04:43] <slomo_> siretart: i'm not in the media team anymore for some reason... and can't join because "Your subscription to this team is expired. You can't join this team."
[04:45] <siretart> wtf?
[04:45] <siretart> slomo_: I readded you
[04:46] <slomo_> siretart: thanks :)
[04:46] <siretart> gnarf. I misclicked and approved xor81 as member
[04:46] <siretart> slomo_: have you heard about him?
[04:47] <slomo_> no... write him a mail and ask who he is :)
[04:47] <zakame> gahh
[04:48] <siretart> slomo_: I made you and crimsun motumedia team administrators
[04:52] <slomo_> siretart: thanks... i'm uploading avidemux now :)
[04:54] <siretart> slomo_: thanks. I didn't get to it for too long time :(
[04:58] <bddebian> Heya folks
[04:59] <bmonty> monring bddebian
[04:59] <bmonty> er...morning
[04:59] <bddebian> Heh, heya bmonty
[04:59] <zakame> heya bddebian
[05:00] <bddebian> Hi zakame
[05:08] <zakame> gn8 all! :D
[05:09] <Tonio_> any reviewer available plz ? we have a few kde packages requiring revu to prepare for UVFe and main inclusion
[05:45] <cyberserver> Hi people.
[05:47] <cyberserver> Do you face problems browsing sites where there are dynamic layer menus and flash, where the menus are not shown because the get behind the flash movie?
[05:47] <cyberserver> For instance, http://www.asus.com.tw/index.aspx
[05:48] <cyberserver> I face this problem on lots of sites... with all browsers, konqueror, forefox, opera...
[05:55] <siretart> it doesn't work anyway on my amd64 workstation
[06:03] <cyberserver> siretart: But... Hmmm... That would solve the problem yes... but.. I would be left without flash then..
[06:03] <cyberserver> siretart: Do you know if other flash plugins could work ? The free one instead of the macromedia?
[06:05] <cyberserver> What amazes me most is that firefox in win$$ does not show the same problem.. being both plugins (win and lin) from macromedia I would expect the same behaviour from both...
[06:06] <siretart> cyberserver: there is a free (as in speech) flash implementation, but I don't know how mature it is.
[06:15] <cyberserver> siretart: Yes, that was the one I was taling about... Last time I tryed it it was ... well... not mature...
[06:15] <siretart> jo
[06:15] <cyberserver> siretart: I asked the same question in #kubuntu ans someone sayd this was fixes in svn for firefox... I'm gonna have a look
[06:16] <siretart> this would be a firefox problem then
[06:19] <cyberserver> Hmmm.. I'm looking... but ... maybe an workaround for the flash problem?
[06:20] <cyberserver> This cant be a firefox problem as I used opera, firefox, konq and galeon... all showed the same behaviour
[06:20] <cyberserver> siretart: oops, sorry: they said "in svn for konqueror", not for firefox :-p
[06:40] <bmonty_> compiling zakame's eclipse package made my other computer unusable :(
[09:23] <Riddell> what's the current status of uploading new packages?
[09:24] <LaserJock> Riddell: NEW new or sync new?
[09:24] <Riddell> NEW new
[09:24] <LaserJock> I think its working
[09:25] <Riddell> so we can just upload after revu?  no UVF or whatever needed?
[09:25] <LaserJock> oh, no
[09:25] <jpatrick> damn
[09:25] <LaserJock> We are still in FeatureFreeeze
[09:26] <LaserJock> you'd have to get an exception
[09:27] <jpatrick> this could take a while
[09:28] <LaserJock> I think mdz does the exceptions
[09:28] <Mithrandir> if it's a totally new package, you can just upload it.
[09:28] <Riddell> Mithrandir: ah good, that's what I wanted to hear :)
[09:28] <Mithrandir> (as long as you don't need new versions of packages already in the archive, naturally)
[09:28] <jpatrick> Mithrandir: Kerry http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2198
[09:29] <LaserJock> Mithrandir: what about Feature Freeze?
[09:29] <jpatrick> so I can just dput this?
[09:30] <Riddell> jpatrick: once you're got two advocated revu's
[09:31] <Mithrandir> LaserJock: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2006-March/005107.html
[09:33] <LaserJock> Mithrandir: hmm, interesting. I wish these things were a little bit more clear
[09:34] <LaserJock> Mithrandir: we had the understanding that FeatureFreeze needed an exception
[09:46] <siretart> Riddell: revu is imo a platform to show/present packages.
[09:46] <siretart> Riddell: NEW packages in universe are generally accepted, IIRC. I think mdz said something like that somewhere
[09:52] <Mithrandir> siretart: if you look at the link I pasted, it's said mail from mdz. :-P
[09:53] <siretart> Mithrandir: Oh, I'm sorry, your right
[09:53] <siretart> I should perhaps deactivate the hilight on 'revu'...
[09:53] <Mithrandir> heh :-)
[09:54] <trappist> is there an appropriate way to get some visibility for a bug where only the reporter and "ubuntu-bugs" are subscribed?
[09:55] <trappist> the package maintainer is a @debian.org so I dunno if anybody's paying attention to it
[09:55] <yves> btw, could someone please review my nwu packages?
[09:55] <yves> 2182
[09:57] <siretart> trappist: just try it :)
[09:57] <trappist> siretart: try what?
[09:57] <trappist> oh the email address
[09:57] <trappist> ?
[09:58] <Erlang> trappist: just for fun, which bug it is?
[09:58] <siretart> jo
[09:58] <trappist> Erlang: 30992
[09:58] <yves> Ubugtu, bug #30992
[09:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30992 in iptables "no ip6 modules" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30992
[11:17] <Toadstool> siretart: hi and yes it looks like ipmasq is a debian native package :/ i didn't know there's no need for an UVF exception for that kind of packages...
[11:17] <siretart> Toadstool: it is currently
[11:17] <siretart> Toadstool: this was meant as a question to the other members of the uvf team
[11:18] <Toadstool> ah ok
[11:20] <ajmitch__> hi
[11:20] <Toadstool> hi ajmitch_
[11:20] <Toadstool> oops not the good ajmitch :)
[11:20] <ajmitch> no, it's his evil twin
[11:20] <Toadstool> :)
[11:53] <Toadstool> good night everybody


[00:28] <wildmanne39> It feels like a mile stone
[07:47] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Raphaël Hertzog: Freexian’s report about Debian Long Term Support, September 2019 @ https://raphaelhertzog.com/2019/10/15/freexians-report-about-debian-long-term-support-september-2019/
[08:34] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Microsoft on “Linux Is a Cancer”: We’re an Open-Source Company Now @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft-on-linux-is-a-cancer-we-re-an-open-source-company-now-527821.shtml (by Bogdan Popa, Microsoft News Editor)
[09:02] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Debian and Ubuntu Patch Critical Sudo Security Vulnerability, Update Now @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/debian-and-ubuntu-patch-critical-sudo-security-vulnerability-update-now-527822.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[09:21] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Didier Roche: Ubuntu ZFS support in 19.10: ZFS on root @ https://didrocks.fr/2019/10/11/ubuntu-zfs-support-in-19.10-zfs-on-root/
[12:23] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Design and Web team summary – 11 October 2019 @ http://ubuntu.com/blog/design-and-web-team-summary-11-october-2019
[13:08] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Linux Kernel 5.2 Reached End of Life, Users Urged to Upgrade to Linux Kernel 5.3 @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/linux-kernel-5-2-reached-end-of-life-users-urged-to-upgrade-to-linux-kernel-5-3-527830.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[13:33] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: KDE Plasma 5.17 Desktop Environment Officially Released, Here's What's New @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/kde-plasma-5-17-desktop-environment-officially-released-here-s-what-s-new-527832.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[13:41] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: KDE Plasma 5.17 Arrives Packed Full of New Features @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=154466 (by Joey Sneddon)
[13:44] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Shadow of the Tomb Raider Arrives for Linux and macOS on November 5th @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/shadow-of-the-tomb-raider-arrives-for-linux-and-macos-on-november-5th-527833.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[13:52] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Fridge:: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 600 @ http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2019/10/14/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-600/ (by wildmanne39)
[13:55] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Major ‘sudo’ Security Flaw is Now Patched in Supported Versions of Ubuntu @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=154489 (by Joey Sneddon)
[16:08] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Ubuntu 19.10 (Eoan Ermine) Enters Final Freeze Ahead of October 17th Release @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-19-10-eoan-ermine-enters-final-freeze-ahead-of-october-17th-release-527831.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[17:32] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Costales: Ubucon Europe 2019 | Sintra edition @ https://costalesmarcos.blogspot.com/2019/10/ubucon-europe-2019-sintra-edition.html (by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(Costales))
[19:53] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Grace Hopper Conference 2019 @ http://ubuntu.com/blog/grace-hopper-conference-2019


[13:05] <mpt> xnox
[13:08] <mpt> xnox, hi, could you please check my last comment in bug 723826 that I understand the requested change?
[13:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 723826 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer – The option to 'Download updates' when installing Ubuntu should be selected by default" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723826
[13:13] <xnox> mpt: read your comment. everything is correct.
[13:17] <mpt> ok
[13:17] <mpt> thanks :-)
[13:18] <mpt> xnox, it's amusing that changing the default is of no consequence as long as bug 761094 is unfixed
[13:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 761094 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) ""Download updates while installing" checkbox does nothing" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761094
[13:19] <mpt> (amusing/galling)
[13:24] <xnox> mpt: imho those comments seemed to be wrong. I can test it again. People download latest daily cd image and test the checkbox. But naturally the daily image is built with latest -updates and -security thus doesn't have any updates.
[13:25] <xnox> mpt: and e.g. comment from 2012-02-20 is completely wrong that "tested precise checkbox and it does nothing" since well we only have updates & security "post-release", not "pre-release" =)


 hi, I trying to use 0.1.9 beta installer on windows 10 (dell venue 11 pro) and the installer can't detect the nexus 5
 using 'adb devices' i can see nexus listed in cmd promt
 try booting into fastboot
 I never had luck with it recognizing any of my devices, always had to boot to fastboot first
 @dohbee, Yep. He has tried multiple times. Seems more deep seated. So bootloader failing?
 perhaps crude but would it be possible to pull a boot img from a working nexus 5 and pushing it to gostranger's? or was that already tried
 or whichever img is needed
 @YougoChats, Already tried
 when he flashes android, it does work?
 @YougoChats, You can see all the tries and everything done until now in the Install group ;)
 that's one mother of a backlog though...
 Yep but is OT to talked about that here. You can ask him too in that group
 A general thought: experience in the Install room points to an increasing rate of failure in supported devices, some of which are quite old. This will start to rival the 15.04 problem. We need to skip forward by 3 years or so
 Any update on nexus 5x
 @leoaslan, It has been very difficult to port apparently. It may even be abandoned? It is not much like Nexus 5
 @Stereofont, Oops that's was the only device available for me to purchase in my region
 @leoaslan, Porting is extremely difficult and specific for each phone. Maybe Dalton will get more time when 16.04 is stable
 @leoaslan, Did you look at the community port, Titan?
 https://ubports.com/blog/ubports-blog-1/post/a-titan-in-the-community-93
 Does anybody have problem with CuteSpotify? It doesn't show any playlists anymore. Cleaned cache, data and even reinstalled it and still not working. Android spotify shows playlists just fine.
 I imagine you have a premium account? Without it does not work
 Iirc the library Cutespotify uses is deprecated...
 @milkor73, Yes I have.
 It worked about week ago.
 Maybe I should install Mopidy again. It worked quite well..
 @samitormanen, can I PM you, it is about UBwriters tutorials
 @milkor73, Ok, sure.
[12:06] <ubptgbot> Furnace McOven was added by: Furnace McOven
[12:07] <ubptgbot> <Furnace McOven> Hey guys. what are the prerequisites for me to install Ubuntu touch on my Nexus 5. … I have already unlocked the bootloader. … The phone is not rooted … I don't have a custom recovery installed … It's on Android 6.0.1
 @Furnace McOven, Welcome Furnace !!! Check this put for more about UBports https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
[12:10] <ubptgbot> <Furnace McOven> Hi. I checked the FAQ out 🙂
[12:10] <ubptgbot> <Furnace McOven> maybe I missed the answer?
[12:11] <ubptgbot> <Furnace McOven> I  just wanted to know if my current phone's config is good? no root, boot unlocked, no recovery
[12:11] <ubptgbot> <Furnace McOven> Android 6.0
 Should be fine afaik. The UBports installer will flash it's own custom recovery, root is not neccesary since everything is done using the fastboot bootloader.
 @Furnace McOven, yes, it's fine. "root" shouldn't matter. as long as bootloader is unlocked you can flash. all data on the device will be wiped and replaced with ubuntu
 Good bye Huawei! We wont see UT on you at any new phone! - https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-stop-providing-bootloader-unlock-codes/
 [Edit] Good Bye Huawei! We wont see UT on you at any new phone! - https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-stop-providing-bootloader-unlock-codes/
 (and Honor also)
 They.Are.Really.Stupid.
 @Flohack, :(
 I was actually talking with a German Honor representative on gamescom last year. I wsa trying to reach them for discussing options for UT. Never received an answer.
 [Edit] I was actually talking with a German Honor representative on gamescom last year. I was trying to reach them for discussing options for UT. Never received an answer.
 To be fair, considering we're so small, Im more supriced by the oportunitys that are actually available to us
 @Flohack, i heard about this.  this is by far the most stupid move they have made and my prediction is that this decision will put the nails in their coffin - period.  Bye bye huawei from all phones.
 I guess they could force their own people to buy it with rifles...
 How about we consider some of these inexpensive Chinese made phones that could actually be a great platform to build something from the ground up?
 Yes but no Mediatek plz xD
 I miss Wiley fox
[14:48] <ubptgbot> <Furnace McOven> Thank you
 @Ismail_ibn_Thomas_Al_Amreeki, Sure. Fine. As long as no locked bootloader ha
 Furnace McOven. I love your name. You are on fire for Ubuntu Touch?
[15:33] <ubptgbot> mukrik_id was added by: mukrik_id
 Hi
 I have problem when install ubintu touch
 I use windows installer
 But when i reboot to bootloader nothing happens
 Can somebody tell me how i can install via windows
 Please private chat me if you can help me solve my problem
 Thanks in advace
[15:41] <ubptgbot> Onilrac was added by: Onilrac
 Welcome @mukrik_id ! Check out this link to get you started and we can try to help in the Welcome & Install room (there's a link on the webpage) https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
 Welcome @Onilrac !!! Check out https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get you up to speed
 @xXx, ?
[16:43] <ubptgbot> Narayan was added by: Narayan
 Welcome Narayan !!! Check this put for more about UBports https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
 Do I need to unlock bootloader to install ubuntu touch on nexus 4.
 Yes
 @UniversalSuperBox, Nice interview Dalton! You firmly confirmed that UBports is still on track and fully operational....well done 😁👍
 Thanks!
 interview?
 @dohbee, The most recent post on the News Channel. Dalton was on LateNightLinux Episode 38.
 I was wondering, is the current Nexus 5 port is based on halium-5.1 or halium-7.1?
 Neither. It uses ubp-5.1 which Halium was based on.
 Ah, OK, thanks. BTW, do you think it'd be worth working on a new port based on halium-7.1 to get the latest versions of the Android BSP libraries?
 @Furnace McOven, Welcome Room if you need assistance
 @slp1605, See my comment above. I think Nexus 5 is showing its age. Moving on would provably be effort better spent
 @slp1605, [Edit] See my comment above. I think Nexus 5 is showing its age. Moving on would probably be effort better spent
 i don't think that's strue
 "more people are having problems now with installing on nexus 5" is only a sign that more people are trying to flash nexus 5 with ubports, not that those problems are necessarily due to bad hardware
 @dohbee, I don't know for certain. Statistically, some will last 20 years but the failure rate overall will increase
 If three years is design life, five is doing well
 FP2 resolves that
 how does fp2 resolve that?
 @Stereofont, Just bought a second hand one, and I don't mind investing some time on that. But I'm not sure if a new BSP would have a noticeable impact on UT.
 @dohbee, It is modular. Not a perfect solution but you can easily repair at no more cost than the component
 it's more servicable, but it doesn't solve many of the related problems. it's not esily upgradable and doesn't account for telcos shutting down 2G (or 3G when that time comes)
 @dohbee, Meanwhile in Poland there are many places where you don't get even 2g signal not speaking of 3g
 It tries at least and the display is housed in an industrial casing 😂
 @VeryOriginalUsername, Sorry, thought it's the ot chat
 Where we go from here with devices is on topic?
 anyway, i don't think attempting to deter people from improving support of nexus 5 or other older phones is a good plan
 @Stereofont, by definition, anything relating to ubports is "on topic" here, considering this is the ubports group :)
 @dohbee, Depends on the time it will rake and the amount of energy required
 Also sn evaluation of alternatives
 not really
 [Edit] Also an evaluation of alternatives
 the topic is the topic
 and a group chat is for chatting. if a few people want to talk about ubports on nexus 5 for an hour, it's still on topic
 might get annoying for some who don't disable notifications for any message to the group, but it's still on topic
 More views on this would be useful. Those are two for starters
 anyway, the goal is to move all devices to halium at some point as i understand it
 and we shouldn't discourage people from wanting to help on that front
 Is there any working port based on halium, or are all ubp-5.1?
 (If I'm asking in the wrong place, please point me in the right direction, thanks!)
 `./` is equivalent to `sudo`, right?
 no
 No
 `./` means 'in the current directory'
 Ok. So what does it suggest if I compile a basic C program in the terminal (installed via Libertine) and it tells me "permission denied"?
 Did you do `chmod +x` on it to mark it executable?
 well, what does `file <yourthing>` say it is?
 Dalton, yes.
 because it's probably not built for the architecture you're trying to run it on
 I would expect "exec format error" in that case
 Rodney: hello_world: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, EABI5 version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=6865eb603050836199cccea861bc93afab2840bb, not stripped
 Is `Permission denied` the only error?
 Yes, compilation goes fine.
 Any apparmor denies in `dmesg`?
 Will check in a sec. But ls -al doesn't show any x's next to the file. I should probably be running chmod +x in the native UT terminal, rather than the Libertine one.
 well there you go
 That doesn't change things. Hmmm. Can't make it executable in either terminal.
 Why would that be?
 Is the file residing in a place that's mounted with `noexec`?
 `mount |grep noexec`
 you're running the command wrong?
 For some reason this seems to be because I was doing it within the SD card folder symlinked into "mount".
 But it works fine from the internal storage, probably because of Dalton's guess.
 is your SD card in vfat? or ext?
 FAT 32 which is I believe the only one UT ordinarily allows.
 well it's the only one that gets auto-mounted
 it's also noexec by default i think, because well fat doesn't really support unix permissions
 so noexec is better for security
 Because otherwise everything is 777 which is potentially dangerous
 This way at least it's 666
[20:47] <ubptgbot> * dohbee kicks on the iron maiden
 Right. I'm fine with FAT 32, this minor disadvantage aside.
 how can I reboot to bootloader a bq e4.5? the installer says power button and volume down, but it seems it doesn't work
 Does anybody have the old version of ut-filemanager, which controlled access to network and smb share with input user and password? Both versions of openstore filemanager doesn't work with these case.
 Fwd from UBports News Channel: Dalton Durst featured on Late Night Linux! … Our very own Dalton Durst has been featured on Late Night Linux Episode 38 talking about Ubuntu Touch, UBports, where the project is, and where we're going in the future! … Show your support for our beloved Dalton (@UniversalSuperBox) and go listen to the
[21:27] <ubptgbot> episode on LateNightLinux.com (Episode 38) or on your favourite audiocatcher with this link! … https://latenightlinux.com/feed/mp3 … #Ubuntu #UbuntuTouch #UBports
 Gj durst!
 Thanks! But in the future, please don't forward whole posts from the news channel. We put them over there because people started getting annoyed with announcements all the time. :)
 [Edit] Thanks! But in the future, please don't forward whole posts from the news channel here. We put them over there because people started getting annoyed with announcements all the time. :)
 Yesyes
[21:40] <ubptgbot> jqhew was added by: jqhew
 @jqhew, Welcome Jq H !!! Check out https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get you up to speed.
 How should I do that?  … 'adb reboot fastboot'? It just seems to boot into bootloader
 @mateosalta, How should I do that?  … 'adb reboot fastboot'? It just seems to boot into bootloader
 Alternatively: is it possible to flash ubports from TWRP?
 @m_rio, it is not. UT is not a standard android ROM
 @m_rio, yes, the bootloader is fastboot mode.
 on windows iirc you need the adb and fastboot drivers and tools installed, and you may need to run ubports-installer with admin privs
 it's best if you join @WelcomePlus for help with installer issues though
 @dohbee, I haven't tried with admin right yet. Thanks, will do
[22:35] <ubptgbot> Aberts10 was added by: Aberts10
 Hi
 I'm thinking of getting a refurbished phone for running Ubport's Ubuntu touch...
 https://www.amazon.com/LG-16GB-Quad-Core-Smartphone-Refurbished/dp/B017RMREL6/ Do you think this nexus model would work?
 @Aberts10, It should work just fine! Welcome to the Supergroup! Check out ubports.com/telegram-welcome to get you started and feel free to ask any questions you may have (like the one you just asked) in here or in our Welcome & Install room! 🙂
[23:16] <r0_> hi
[23:17] <r0_> is it possible to install ubuntu touch on my galaxy s7?
 r0_ i dont think so.
[23:27] <r0_> i youtube'd 'ubuntu touch on galaxy s7' and 1video says he did it with unified halium-boot and Ubports Xenial image. but i have no idea what that is..


[00:55] <poolie> hi all
[04:02] <poolie> hi spiv?
[04:39] <spiv> poolie: hi
[06:19] <poolie> hi there
[06:28] <lifeless> hi
[07:02] <vila> hello poolie !
[08:00] <jam> morning poolie, good to have you back around
[08:12] <poolie> hi jam, it's good to be back
[08:12] <poolie> i had a great trip
[08:13] <vila> poolie: I was a bit worried you get stuck in Europe due to this other volcano ;)
[08:14] <jam> poolie: I'm curious why you're online at this time, though. Just finishing up your day?
[08:41] <poolie> jam it's 17:40 here, not so late
[08:41] <poolie> i will finish up now though
[08:42] <poolie> vila, no, i came back on my scheduled flight
[08:42] <poolie> good night
[08:42] <jam> poolie: sure, you just didn't say "hi there" until 2 hours ago, and I didn't see you chatting earlier
[08:42] <jam> so I thought that you might have been in a different TZ
[08:42] <jam> I now see that you said high 8 hours ago
[08:42] <jam> hi
[08:45] <vila> poolie: cool, enjoy your evening !
[08:49] <poolie> glad we got that straight :)
[09:22] <temporarytao> hi, can anyone tell me how i can generate a .diff file using bzr and then apply a patch using the diff file?
[09:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> temporarytao: 'bzr diff' and 'patch'?
[09:25] <temporarytao> Kamping_Kaiser, i think that's what i need but just to clarify...
[09:26] <temporarytao> i use diff to create the .diff file by piping the output of 'bzr diff' to a file, right
[09:26] <temporarytao> and then use patch to apply the changes in the file
[09:27] <vila> that should work (expect for binary files, renames and so on)
[09:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes. or use merge requests. , bzr help send
[09:27]  * vila nods at Kamping_Kaiser
[09:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> vila: gday
[09:28] <vila> \o_
[09:29] <temporarytao> thanks!
[09:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> np :)
[09:39] <maxb> poolie: Hello. I was wondering if you happened to know the rationale in lp:~bzr-core/bzr/devnotes being owned by ~bzr-core rather than ~bzr ?
[13:50] <Lo-lan-do> Hi all.  Is it possible to ship a shelve?
[13:50] <Lo-lan-do> Or do a bzr send --uncommitted or so
[14:13] <vila> Lo-lan-do: shelves are supposed to be used locally, there are many different available and well supported ways to ship revisions ;)
[14:15] <Lo-lan-do> The point was not to ship a set of revisions, but an uncommitted patch.
[14:15] <Lo-lan-do> (To a remote box, so bzr merge --uncommitted wouldn't work)
[14:17] <vila> I got that, I'm pointing out that, no, shelves are not meant to be shipped, you can try copying the file under ./bzr/checkout/shelf
[14:18] <vila> but there are cases where you won't be able to use it because it's not *meant* to be used this way
[14:18] <Lo-lan-do> I understand.  I'll do with a simple bzr diff then.
[15:46] <santagada> is there a way to associate two repositories with the same project on launchpad?
[15:46] <gour> santagada: group?
[15:47] <santagada> gour, I wanted to do it with a project
[15:47] <santagada> gour, or do I have to have one project for each repository?
[15:47] <maxb> Sorry to bounce you around, but this question is more rightly discussed on #launchpad
[15:47] <maxb> (I know you were just pointed in this direction)
[15:50] <santagada> I am going to guess this is impossible, it is 1 project 1 repo because there is no docs about this
[16:24] <vila> lamont: ping, did you find a solution for your "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'trace' " ? (aka bug #788072)
[16:24] <lamont> vila: I did not
[16:24] <vila> :-/
[16:25] <lamont> it's one of those "busy with other things, this is only mildly  annoying so far" things
[16:25] <vila> I see
[16:27] <smoser> hi, i wonder if i can have some help...
[16:27] <smoser> i've got a branch at lp:ubuntu/python-boto
[16:27] <smoser> bzr diff -r tag:1.9b-1..tag:1.9b-1ubuntu5
[16:27] <smoser> shows a bunch of adds and removes or renames
[16:27] <smoser> and the net is that nothing changed
[16:28] <smoser> it was probably user error that created that, but
[16:28] <smoser> (on my part)
[16:28] <smoser> but a.) is there a way to ignore those in a 'bzr diff'
[16:28] <smoser> b.) is there a way that i can get that to happen by default
[16:46] <smoser> i'm willing to muck around with things now to get that fixed in the future
[16:51] <maxb> I don't believe there's any way to get bzr diff to do what you want
[16:52] <maxb> In similar situations I have bzr export-ed both trees and diffed the result.
[16:52]  * maxb grabs the branch to inspect how it arose
[17:01] <maxb> Ah, right. Yes, it was the manner in which you brought in the debian version which has caused this
[17:03] <maxb> smoser: Hmm. I'm tempted to say that the most expedient way to fix it would be to erase the ubuntu branches and have the importer reimport them
[17:03] <maxb> Unless you can think of any other branches which might have history built on top of these
[17:08] <smoser> maxb, probably not.
[17:08] <smoser> at least not that couldn't be ignored.
[17:08] <maxb> smoser: How much to you know about Bazaar file ids?
[17:08] <maxb> s/to/do/
[17:09] <smoser> i know that you just said "Bazaar file ids" and not much more :)
[17:09] <maxb> Hah
[17:09] <maxb> OK, the very quick summary:
[17:09] <maxb> Bazaar tracks the identity of files via an id that is generated when you add it
[17:10] <maxb> This works great most of the time and allows sensible handling of moved files
[17:10] <maxb> However, if the "same" tree is separately imported in two different branches, odd stuff like you can see tends to result
[17:10] <maxb> This is known as a "parallel import"
[17:11] <maxb> There are ways to mitigate this quite a lot, but they are best applied when first merging the two parallel imports - so applying them after 5 ubuntu releases have happened since that merge isn't optimal
[17:12] <maxb> As the only revisions on the branches which are not generated by the importer anyway, are the ones causing the problem, I'm suggesting a reset and reimport
[17:13] <maxb> People who can make this happen are a subset of ~canonical-bazaar folks
[17:13]  * maxb wonders if vila or spiv is around
[17:13] <maxb> or james_w
[17:13] <smoser> yeah, i think that sounds like the best course of action.
[17:13] <james_w> hi maxb
[17:13] <smoser> i'd rather have the tree look sane
[17:14] <james_w> "bzr diff | filterdiff" might hide them :-)
[17:15] <maxb> james_w: Hi. Would you agree with my assessment that if the only non-importer revisions in some UDD branches are a slightly botched parallel import, it's best to delete the branches and restart the import?
[17:15] <james_w> maxb, sounds about right, but today isn't a good day to ask me anything unfortunately
[17:15] <maxb> OK, fair enough. LP question against udd?
[17:15] <vila> I'm busy freezing bzr-2.4b3 but I can run a command on the importer
[17:16] <james_w> maxb, I'm not sure if I receive those or not, so a bug might be better
[17:16] <maxb> ok
[17:17]  * maxb checks delete_branches_from_lp.py syntax
[17:17] <vila> hmm, if this involve running *that* script, yeah a bug to track the process sounds better
[17:17] <maxb> hmm, that could really do with an --ubuntu-only option
[17:19] <maxb> vila: During the sprint, I observed that delete_branches_from_lp.py had local modifications on jubany. Could you have a look at them and commit them if there is nothing confidential involved?
[17:19] <maxb> That way I can put up a MP adding an --ubuntu-only flag without worrying about conflicts
[17:21]  * vila shudders
[17:21] <vila> yeah, I asked for this changes to be committed with the intent triggering them but... never happened
[17:23] <james_w> IIRC the intent was that the current script is completely broken :-)
[17:24] <vila> argh and branches diverged :(
[17:24] <vila> and whoami not set :(
[17:24] <vila> why did I pop up here !
[17:24] <vila> :)
[17:25] <vila> ok,committed
[17:28] <james_w> heh
[17:29] <james_w> thanks vila
[17:34] <maxb> Could I get a requeue_package.py sysvinit too?
[17:34] <maxb> I expect it to fail, but I want to see if the failure reason has changed
[17:34] <vila> no options ?
[17:34] <maxb> no options
[17:35] <mgz> it seems to have been a cyclic day in my absense.
[17:35] <vila> requeued
[17:35] <vila> ha ha ha
[17:43] <mgz> oh, is 2.4b3 being release today?
[17:44] <vila> frozen, not released ;) Don't start rumors will you ?
[17:44] <mgz> ehhee
[17:55] <smoser> maxb, so do you or vila need me to open a bug ?
[17:56] <smoser> sorry, i was away a bit.
[17:56] <vila> hmm, I understood that maxb will open it but I may be wrong
[17:57] <maxb> I was going to open one once I'd had a look at the existing scripts and figured what needs to be done in detail
[17:57] <maxb> However, if you'd like to open one (under launchpad.net/udd) and subscribe me, that works too, and I'll fill in the details later
[17:57] <maxb> Hmm
[17:58] <maxb> Actually, I wonder if we could do it less brutally
[18:00] <maxb> Yes, we don't need to delete all the branches, we could just remove a few revisions
[18:08] <smoser> so you still want a bug ?
[18:32] <mgz> vila: ouch on bug 785098 I wondered why I couldn't repo that
[18:32] <vila> see my last comment ? Got sphinx ? Got python test files ?
[18:32] <mgz> yeah, reading it. not having sphinx is why.
[18:32] <smoser> bug 788747 opened
[18:33] <mgz> sphinx are being very naughty.
[18:36] <vila> I've got a fix for them
[18:36] <mgz> are you filing an upstream bug?
[18:37] <vila> yup, in progress, patch missing
[18:40] <fbond> Hi, I just got hit by https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/641330 .
[18:40] <fbond> Is there any way to get my shelved content back?
[19:06] <fbond> Maybe I can edit the shelf pack file by hand to remove the root?
[19:15] <fbond> nm, no time for bzr bugs today...
[20:08] <mgz> doh.
[20:08] <mgz> confused by core count detection again.
[20:14] <vila> hmm, wasn't there a patch to rely on python to do that ?
[20:15] <mgz> unless I lie the fork code never gets run on my machine
[20:16] <mgz> because it thinks it knows best based on the fact I only have one cpu
[20:16] <vila> multi-core ? OS ?
[20:17] <mgz> I still need to test that fork works, even on my old machine
[20:17] <mgz> otherwise all you people with fancy new computers will yell at me when my code breaks when you run it
[20:18] <vila> hehe
[20:29] <mgz> bah, this nearly works, there's just an api gap.
[20:29] <maxb> Could I have a "./requeue_package.py --all-of-type xwax" please?
[20:38] <vila> maxb: done
[20:38] <maxb> thanks
[20:39] <maxb> I expect them all to fail, but with new and different tracebacks
[20:39]  * vila returns the thanks ;)
[20:39] <vila> that's a good game
[20:42] <__monty__> How do I start solving a bug, how do I know where to look for the code that's responsible?
[20:43]  * vila blinks
[20:43] <vila> __monty__: in bzr ?
[20:43] <__monty__> Yes.
[20:44] <vila> depends on the bug :) Is it one you encounter yourself or just heard about ?
[20:44] <__monty__> Something I would find on the bug tracker, I don't have a specific bug in mind yet.
[20:45] <vila> ha, hmm
[20:45] <vila> There is no generic answer to such a wide question, there are bugs tagged 'easy' you may want to try first
[20:46] <JFo> or bitesize
[20:46] <vila> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bugs?field.tag=easy
[20:46] <vila> hmm, I. not sure we started using bitesize, that's a good idea
[20:48] <JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize&field.tags_combinator=ALL
[20:48] <vila> mgz: do you expect more feedback on https://code.launchpad.net/~gz/bzr/lazy_hook_test_cleanup_785054/+merge/61586 or should we mark it WIP ?
[20:48] <JFo> lots of packages are using it from the look :)
[20:53] <poolie>  /back
[20:53] <poolie> hi jfo, vila, mgz, maxb
[20:54] <maxb> Hello poolie
[20:54] <maxb> I had a question for you - why is ~bzr-core/bzr/devnotes owned by ~bzr-core rather than ~bzr ?
[20:55] <poolie> the short answer is i don't know
[20:55] <poolie> is ~bzr in ~bzr-core or is it vice versa?
[20:56] <maxb> ~bzr is in ~bzr-core
[20:56] <mgz> vila: well, I probably do need some more input, but it can wip till I have some of these other branches landed
[20:56] <mgz> hey poolie!
[20:56] <maxb> So ~bzr-core does mean more people can write - though the vast majority of branches appear to be on ~bzr anyway
[20:57] <maxb> It's all a bit messy
[20:58] <vila> mgz: no, if you need more feedback just put an additional comment
[20:58] <maxb> Ah well. I think I'll get the code review subscriptions issue sorted first, then attack bugmail
[20:58] <vila> poolie: hey !
[20:59] <vila> poolie: my god, you fall from your bed ?
[20:59]  * vila shuckles poor poolie getting remarks at all hours :)
[21:00] <JFo> hi poolie  :)
[21:01]  * JFo was looking at another computer for a bit :)
[21:01] <poolie> i am a bit
[21:01] <vila> hehe
[21:02] <poolie> what's worse is i've been up for a couple of hours
[21:02] <poolie> how are things here?
[21:03] <JFo> not bad
[21:03]  * JFo has a dinner meeting in a few, so will be away
[21:03] <JFo> better get moving now I've looked at the time :-/
[21:06] <poolie> i bet i've already filed a bug asking for a way to subscribe to all code reviews
[21:06] <poolie> vila, how  have you been?
[21:06] <vila> busy ? :D
[21:10] <vila> 2.4b3 frozen, some chroots configured, some bugs fixed, more filed, some PPing (jelmer is away AIUI)
[21:11] <poolie> ah
[21:11] <poolie> yes, we should have rescheduled that
[21:11] <poolie> he is on holidays
[21:11] <vila> .. and still hoping for some reviews on config :-D
[21:11] <poolie> could you officially take it on for tomorrow?
[21:11] <__monty__> I think this is a good bug to start working on: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/712922
[21:12] <__monty__> However I don't know how to begin.
[21:12] <vila> __monty__: 1) look into bzrlib/symbol_versioning.py and search for the corresponding tests and use cases
[21:13] <vila> 2) start playing with 'bzr selftest -s bt.symbol_versioning'
[21:14] <poolie> hi __monty__
[21:14] <__monty__> hi
[21:14] <poolie> i will try to give you some reviews
[21:14] <vila> 3) write a failing test in bzrlib/tests/test_symbol_versioning.py that will exercise the code you're planning to write
[21:14] <poolie> (you=vila)
[21:14] <poolie> __monty__: are you just looking for some bug to fix?
[21:15] <poolie> there are some tagged easy
[21:15] <poolie> that one should be fairly easy, but involves a bit of metaprogramming
[21:15] <vila> poolie: yeah, np, I was more or less doing it ~officially already
[21:15] <poolie> so depends a bit how much you know python
[21:15] <vila> poolie: great !
[21:15] <poolie> vila, jam, do you think https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/602614 is really conclusively fixed?
[21:17] <vila> No idea, it was mentioned in the news so I marked it fix released, if there are pending issues, it may be worth filing a new one
[21:17] <vila> new bugs are easier to track for all parties involved (we have bugs opened for too long otherwise)
[21:19] <__monty__> Hmm, I don't know about metaprogramming, maybe I should look for another bug?
[21:20] <poolie> well, yes
[21:20] <poolie> but that's a pretty popular bug
[21:20] <poolie> so i think it would be a bit pedantic to mark it closed and ask people to move to another
[21:21] <poolie> i will comment
[21:26] <vila> poolie: I see. Sorry, I was a bit rushed while I cut the release (maxb is doing wonders on the package importer and needed a proxy ;)
[21:27] <poolie> np
[21:27] <poolie> really no problem
[21:27] <poolie> it's good to have multiple eyes
[21:27] <poolie> it's just good on hot bugs like this (especially) not to say it's closed when it's not
[21:27] <poolie> but in this case it seems it may well be
[21:32] <vila> hmm, I add a --browser option to checknewsbug.py, in which section should I mention that ? Internals ?
[21:33] <vila> not a major change but interesting for *some* bzr devs :)
[21:33] <__monty__> Maybe this is a better bug to begin with? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/54624
[21:39] <__monty__> It doesn't sound hard if a file is binary, check the size, if it's bigger than some variable limit, give a warning?
[21:40] <poolie> vila, internals
[21:41] <poolie> or, perhaps better, past to the list
[21:41] <poolie> __monty__: that sounds good
[21:41] <poolie> i wouldn't even bother checking if it's binary
[21:41] <poolie> just if it's more than say 10MB by default, warn
[21:41] <poolie> and ideally take that from a config variable
[21:41] <vila> poolie: the proposal is almost ready, I'll see what reviewers say, no big deal anway
[21:45] <__monty__> poolie: Where should a check like this be? Somewhere in commit.py? And how do I add a config variable?
[21:49] <poolie> __monty__: probably yes, in commit.py
[21:49] <poolie> you should get the wt configuration object
[21:49] <poolie> and then i think just get_user_configuration passing it the name you want
[21:50] <poolie> if you want a really easy one to start https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/364462 would be good
[21:51] <jam> poolie: it is not conclusively fixed, but we have more headroom.
[21:51] <jam> I think the ultimate fix is to not read whole files into memory
[21:51] <jam> without that, we'll always have a case where we fail
[22:12] <__monty__> poolie: Looking at the traceback (in the bug you suggested) it seems the error should be handled in bzrlib/plugins/email/smtp_connection.py However I don't have the email directory, should I install a certain plugin or is it located somewhere else?
[22:14] <poolie> __monty__: it would be in lp:bzr-email
[22:14] <poolie> however
[22:14] <poolie> there are smtp sending wrappers in bzrlib itself
[22:14] <poolie> i think that's where it should be handled
[22:24] <__monty__> poolie: in smtp_connection.py?
[22:26] <poolie> sounds right
[22:26] <poolie> or possibly in crash.py, just to say this error is never an internal error
[22:38] <__monty__> How can I catch the error from within smtp_connection.py or crash.py?
[22:39] <poolie> _
[22:39] <poolie> __monty__: crash.py has a concept of errors that don't indicate bugs
[22:40] <__monty__> So this should go in crash.py? But how does crash.py know this error occurs?
[22:40] <poolie> hm maybe not crash.py
[22:42] <__monty__> smtp_connection.py then?
[22:42] <poolie> ok, it's report_exception in trace.py
[22:43] <poolie> that has the policy about whether something is a bug (and should get a traceback) or just an environmental or user error
[22:43] <poolie> socket.error is normally an environmental error and should be treated as such
[23:16] <__monty__> Is there a prefered pastebin for this channel?
[23:24] <__monty__> poolie: Would this be enough for a fix? http://pastebin.com/uxh5u0ag
[23:26] <poolie> that's almost it
[23:27] <poolie> but socket.error can mean many other things than just a timeout
[23:27] <poolie> you need to get a string about the particular error
[23:27] <ironcamel> anybody got bzr bisect installed and got it to work?
[23:28] <poolie> yes, i have
[23:28] <poolie> what's wrong?
[23:41] <poolie> __monty__: how's it going?
[23:42] <poolie> probably just printing the str form of the excepiton would be a good start
[23:42] <poolie> ideally we would also include something about just which host we were failing to connect to
[23:42] <poolie> i don't know if socket.error includes that
[23:42] <__monty__> I'm still trying to find out how to get the string :s
[23:42] <poolie> str(e) should do it
[23:43] <poolie> the default exception-reporting thing should print that probably
[23:43] <poolie> so you may notneed to specify anything special
[23:45] <__monty__> What do you mean by the default exception-reporting thing, report_user_error()?
[23:45] <poolie> yes
[23:47] <__monty__> Should I pass an advice parameter to report_user_error() or is this fix meant to handle every socket.error?