[12:33] <dutchie> hmm, merging in all these new translations is going to take ages
[12:33] <dutchie> hmm
[17:32]  * dutchie has realised why he should update the translations regularly
[17:32] <dutchie> bloody *enormous* merge conflicts to resolve
[17:34] <dutchie> 36 .po files with conflicts to resolve
[17:38] <dutchie> \o/ shortcut found and utilised
[18:37] <ubuntujenkins> hello the meeting has to be moved it think because there is a meeting booked in #ubuntu-meeting and its not the ubuntu manual project
[18:37] <ubuntujenkins> am i right?
[18:38] <ubuntujenkins> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar ubuntu meeting channel schedule
[18:39] <dutchie> we could have it in here instead
[18:39] <dutchie> we've got MootBot
[18:39]  * dutchie makes an executive decision
[18:39] <ubuntujenkins> I thought that shall i mail the list
[18:40] <dutchie> I'll do it, it's fine
[18:40] <ubuntujenkins> thanks I didn't want to do it my self with out mentioning it here first
[18:43] <ubuntujenkins> shall i do the wiki dutchie?
[18:43] <dutchie> too slow :)
[19:02] <bvb> quick thought ... are we using Oxford commas?
[19:04] <nisshh> godbyk: you would be the best person to answer this.
[19:11] <dutchie> editors would be better
[19:11] <dutchie> I forget who the head of editing is thoug
[19:11] <dutchie> h
[19:13] <bvb> jamin day, perhaps? i feel like i've gotten most editing emails from him
[19:13] <dutchie> might be
[19:16] <bvb> well, i don't know if i can make the meeting later, but i'll least leave xchat running and be back in a bit
[19:25] <ubuntujenkins> I was going to ask the oxford comma question nice ask! I will ask in the meeting if you are not there bvb
[20:00] <nisshh> hmmm, where is benjamin? we need to start soon
[20:01] <dutchie> doesn't seem to be around
[20:01] <nisshh> meh ok
[20:02] <nisshh> we should wait 5 mins and then start you reckon?
[20:02] <dutchie> yeah
[20:02] <nisshh> kk good plan
[20:02] <tacantara> Just checked Google Buzz...Benjamin isn't online
[20:02] <nisshh> hehe he must be busy
[20:03] <dutchie> or asleep :)
[20:03] <tacantara> I hope his new ISP hasn't goofed up on him ;)
[20:04] <nisshh> yea true but he shouldnt be asleep since its 4am for me and hes 3 hours ahead
[20:05] <dutchie> do we have an emergency backup chair, or shall I step in?
[20:05] <voxwoman> hi everyobe
[20:05] <voxwoman> everone
[20:05] <dutchie> hi voxwoman
[20:05] <dutchie> nisshh: wouldn't that make it 7am on a sunday for him? excusable if so...
[20:06] <dutchie> right, any objections to starting without humphreybc?
[20:07] <ubuntujenkins> I think we should wait 5 more mins
[20:07] <thorwil> and i was worried about coming late
[20:08] <nisshh> we should probably get started...
[20:08] <dutchie> 3
[20:08] <dutchie> 2
[20:08] <dutchie> 1
[20:08] <dutchie> #startmeeting
[20:08] <MootBot> Meeting started at 14:08. The chair is dutchie.
[20:08] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[20:08] <dutchie> Everyone here, say PRESENT then
[20:09] <voxwoman> PRESENT
[20:09] <vendaval> PRESENT
[20:09] <ubuntujenkins> PRESENT
[20:09] <KelvinGardiner> present
[20:09] <thorwil> PRESENT
[20:09] <tacantara> PRESENT
[20:09] <dutchie> OK first topic
[20:09] <mattgriffin> PRESENT
[20:09] <dutchie> [TOPIC] 48 hours of Ubuntu Manual learning
[20:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  48 hours of Ubuntu Manual learning
[20:10] <bvb> PRESENT
[20:10] <dutchie> So, as I understand it, this is an UbuntuOpenWeek style affair to help folks learn about how the manual works
[20:11] <dutchie> Tonight, we need to make a start on organising timings and making sure everyone knows what's going on
[20:11] <voxwoman> this is something I need so I can be more productive with the group
[20:11] <ubuntujenkins> we might want some more events otherwise each will be 2 hours long
[20:11] <nisshh> does anyone have any suggestions for more events?
[20:12] <dutchie> I think the intention was to do each one twice to give more people a chance to sit in
[20:12] <nisshh> im happy to do one but im not sure what is left
[20:12] <dutchie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/48hours
[20:12] <dutchie> see that page for more info
[20:12] <nisshh> yes its over 2 days after all
[20:12] <ubuntujenkins> I think the times might need sorting by the people doing it depending on their time zones.
[20:13] <dutchie> this is definitely true
[20:13] <nisshh> yes but its better if they are one after the other
[20:13] <nisshh> not scattered
[20:13] <dutchie> nisshh: definitely
[20:13] <nisshh> so they probably just need reordering
[20:14] <dutchie> OK, humphreybc, godbyk, JaminDay, thorwil, myself, IlyaHaykinson are scheduled to give talks
[20:14] <thorwil> dutchie: it's a mistake if i'm still on that list
[20:14] <dutchie> that's what it says on the wiki
[20:14] <nisshh> thorwil: you oped out?
[20:14] <thorwil> yes
[20:14]  * thorwil fixes wiki
[20:14] <dutchie> do we have any other artists to cover that?
[20:15] <nisshh> hmmm well im not on the artwork team
[20:15] <dutchie> the OpenWeek and DeveloperWeek normally run from 1600UTC
[20:15] <nisshh> and that is a better session time for me too
[20:16] <ubuntujenkins> we need nine hours that work for people who are doing it. What time zones are those people in?
[20:16] <thorwil> i see no need or use in covering artwork there
[20:16] <dutchie> thorwil: what makes you say that?
[20:16] <nisshh> we need to cover screenshot taking
[20:17] <nisshh> since most writers will help out with that too
[20:17] <thorwil> dutchie: it's very unlikely anyone joins the effort who couldn't be instructed if it happens
[20:17] <dutchie> OK, we could replace that with screenshot taking
[20:18] <dutchie> all agreed?
[20:18] <nisshh> have we got the guidelines for screenshot size and whatnot decided yet though?
[20:18] <dutchie> the Docs team have official guidelines
[20:18] <dutchie> might as well use them
[20:18] <dutchie> jaminday: hi
[20:18] <thorwil> dutchie: those that say 8bit?
[20:18] <dutchie> we're discussing the 48 hours thing
[20:18] <jaminday> hi there
[20:18] <nisshh> yes good point
[20:19] <dutchie> thorwil: are they? hadn't looked myself
[20:19] <nisshh> but we should make sure they fit with out layout
[20:19] <nisshh> our layout
[20:19] <jaminday> ah cool. Sorry i slept in!
[20:19] <dutchie> that's godbyk's area
[20:19] <dutchie> it shouldn't be too hard
[20:20] <nisshh> also if thorwil wishes not to cover the screenshots section i will stick my hand up
[20:20] <thorwil> nisshh: cool, as i indeed don't intend to
[20:21] <dutchie> OK, nisshh can do a talk on screenshots
[20:21] <dutchie> [ACTION] nisshh to do a talk on taking screenshots to replace the art team one
[20:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nisshh to do a talk on taking screenshots to replace the art team one
[20:21] <thorwil> provided we know what we want until then?
[20:22] <dutchie> we'll have another meeting by then
[20:22] <godbyk> I'm here now.
[20:22] <godbyk> Totally forgot abut the mtg, sorry.
[20:22] <dutchie> so, are there times that people could/couldn't do?
[20:22] <dutchie> we're looking at Monday/Tuesday afternoon/evening, UTC
[20:23] <dutchie> speak up :)
[20:24] <dutchie> OK, I'll go first then
[20:24] <KelvinGardiner> I can do 1600 UTC  2300 UTC Monday
[20:24] <dutchie> it'd probably be best to start off with humphreybc's intro both days
[20:24] <godbyk> evening UTC is better for me.
[20:25] <dutchie> shall we kick off at 1600 then?
[20:25] <dutchie> I'll set the intro talks for then
[20:25] <dutchie> if we're all agreed
[20:25] <ubuntujenkins> sounds good to me
[20:26] <nisshh> yes sorry i got distracted
[20:26] <nisshh> 1600 utc is good
[20:26] <dutchie> [ACTION] dutchie to set the start time as 1600UTC and schedule humphreybc's intro for then
[20:26] <MootBot> ACTION received:  dutchie to set the start time as 1600UTC and schedule humphreybc's intro for then
[20:26] <dutchie> ok, godbyk
[20:27] <KelvinGardiner> Should the talks be at different times for both days for people in different time zones. e.f. 1600 UTC Monday and 0400UTC Tuesday.
[20:27] <dutchie> KelvinGardiner: I was about to make that point
[20:27] <ubuntujenkins> same
[20:27] <godbyk> I agree.
[20:28] <nisshh> also whoever just edited the wiki just removed my talk slot
[20:28] <dutchie> this is a bit tricky as benjamin is doing half the talks and we don't know when he's free
[20:28] <nisshh> ill add it back in now though
[20:29] <dutchie> godbyk: would you be good to go at 1700 on the monday, and say 2000 on the tuesday?
[20:29] <KelvinGardiner> If Benjamin does the first day, someone else can repeat what he covers if he not about on the second day.
[20:29] <dutchie> hmm
[20:29] <dutchie> http://etherpad.com/ov6YwNDcDi
[20:29] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://etherpad.com/ov6YwNDcDi
[20:29] <godbyk> dutchie: That should be fine, yeah.
[20:29] <dutchie> might be easier to knock up a schedule on there
[20:30] <nisshh> id be happy with anything up to 1900 on either day
[20:30] <ubuntujenkins> shouldn't the times be more apart to allow for other time zones?
[20:31] <dutchie> the open week is normally done every hour
[20:31] <jaminday> yeah the first i could do would be 0530 UTC on tuesday
[20:31] <jaminday> or 0600 tuesday
[20:31] <dutchie> I was basing it on that pretty closely
[20:31] <nisshh> 99% of people get to open week too
[20:31] <dutchie> stick ideas and preferred times on the etherpad
[20:31] <nisshh> their times work well
[20:32] <ubuntujenkins> if monday starts at 1600 then tuesday should be at 0400. every hour makes sense
[20:32] <dutchie> exactly, that's why I was stealing their idea
[20:37] <tacantara> Any possibility of converting slide shows to a You-Tube movie format, or making the slides with lecture notes available for download from the Wiki?  You know, just in case someone can't attend a lecture but wants the info.
[20:37] <dutchie> we'll put logs up for those that can't make it
[20:42] <dutchie> OK, we're going to move on from scheduling the 48 hours
[20:42] <dutchie> it's not done, but keep looking at it when you can.
[20:42] <nisshh> ok
[20:42] <dutchie> feel free to edit the etherpad - it's easier to do than with a wiki
[20:43] <dutchie> OK, next topic
[20:43] <dutchie> [TOPIC] BETA Release milestones
[20:43] <nisshh> next item?
[20:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  BETA Release milestones
[20:43] <dutchie> OK, beta is scheduled for the 18th of March
[20:44] <dutchie> which is the same day as Lucid beta iirc
[20:44] <dutchie> "In this release, the content of the manual should represent what it will look like in the final release - all references, links and images should be in place, and final formatting, color scheme and styles should start to take shape. Translations should be well on their way to completion."
[20:44] <dutchie> is what the wiki says
[20:44] <dutchie> I don't think much needs to be said about that, just get your heads down and work away on it
[20:44] <thorwil> all images in place might become fun
[20:45] <dutchie> we can discuss screenshots next time round
[20:45] <dutchie> anybody else got anything to say on the beta?
[20:45] <tacantara> The alpha release seems to have a lot of information.  Tweaking shouldn't be much of a problem
[20:45] <nisshh> nope
[20:45] <godbyk> We should also make sure the translations are set up to work smoothly.
[20:46] <dutchie> godbyk: yeah, I think I've got a better workflow set up for those now
[20:46] <KelvinGardiner> Is there a list of needed screenshots?
[20:46] <godbyk> And from the formatting side, too, so we have appropriate fonts and designs for each translated language.
[20:46] <godbyk> KelvinGardiner: Some are listed in comments in the .tex files
[20:47] <dutchie> if editors can mark where screenshots are needed with some suitable comment, that'd be useful
[20:47] <jaminday> editing has been slower than hoped so far while waiting on content but hopefully now that there is more it will pick up
[20:47] <godbyk> I will create a \screenshotTODO{Description of the required screenshot.} command today that we can start using as a placeholder.
[20:47] <nisshh> most are
[20:47] <bvb> a global list, with one person assigned to screenshots, might be useful
[20:47] <godbyk> That'll make it easier to track what screenshots we need.
[20:47] <jaminday> yes agreed
[20:47] <jaminday> godbyk - can that placeholder be explained in our wiki somewhere?
[20:47] <KelvinGardiner> godbyk: good plan.
[20:47] <godbyk> We can have the \screenshotTODO command barf out a plain text file containing the list of required screenshots, too.
[20:47] <bvb> cool
[20:47] <dutchie> OK, so shall we say editors comment up the screenshots for next week
[20:47] <godbyk> jaminday: Sure. After I've written it. :)
[20:48] <dutchie> godbyk: is that needed?
[20:48] <dutchie> godbyk: surely just a comment could be grepped and perled into a text file
[20:48] <jaminday> no worries
[20:48] <godbyk> The comments are less structured, whereas the command can insert a placeholder graphic and make a true list of screenshots we still need to get.
[20:49] <nisshh> cool
[20:49] <dutchie> godbyk: if you think that'd help
[20:49] <jaminday> also comments marking screenshots tend to get lost in the sea of other comments
[20:49] <jaminday> whereas a command would be more obvious
[20:49] <godbyk> It'll also help with getting a page count and an idea of the final PDF file size.
[20:49] <bvb> yeah, i think it'd help
[20:50] <dutchie> [ACTION] godbyk to do a \screenshotTODO command to insert placeholder text and produce a list of required screenshots
[20:50] <MootBot> ACTION received:  godbyk to do a \screenshotTODO command to insert placeholder text and produce a list of required screenshots
[20:50] <bvb> would it make sense to have a specific screenshot team (operating with the master list)...?
[20:50] <dutchie> I think just everyone who can does screenshots :)
[20:51] <bvb> ok
[20:51] <dutchie> anything else on the beta?
[20:51] <nisshh> good plan
[20:51] <bvb> i take it specifics (res, etc.) are for next meeting?
[20:51] <bvb> or just "later' :)
[20:51] <dutchie> next meeting
[20:51] <bvb> ok
[20:52] <dutchie> moving on then
[20:52] <dutchie> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Manual Global Jam
[20:52] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Manual Global Jam
[20:52] <dutchie> Who here is planning to go to a Jam?
[20:52] <dutchie> Who here knows what a Jam is?
[20:52] <dutchie> ;)
[20:52] <nisshh> well i dont know much about it to be honest
[20:52] <jaminday> nope never heard of it
[20:52] <nisshh> lol
[20:53] <nisshh> its kind of like a sprint isnt it?
[20:53] <dutchie> basically, yes
[20:53] <dutchie> one moment, I'll pull up a link
[20:53] <nisshh> cool ok and how do we collaborate?
[20:53] <nisshh> ok
[20:53] <dutchie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
[20:54] <dutchie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam/Events
[20:54] <dutchie> check on there for one near you
[20:54] <dutchie> but not many up yet
[20:55] <dutchie> basically, we need to publicise the manual as something to work on during the jam
[20:55] <nisshh> hehe none where i live
[20:55] <dutchie> probably worth checking later on
[20:56] <dutchie> if you can, go along to one and spread the word
[20:56] <nisshh> ok, is a Jam over irc?
[20:56] <dutchie> no, meeting up in a room somewhere
[20:56] <godbyk> What are the discrete tasks that we want people to help with on the manual?
[20:56] <dutchie> doing screenshots by then, probably
[20:56] <dutchie> translations too
[20:56] <KelvinGardiner> nisshh: I think the docs team do a jam via irc.
[20:56] <nisshh> ah right
[20:57] <nisshh> we will have to then too since we all live far apart
[20:57] <dutchie> nisshh: the idea is you go to one near you, and meet up with like-minded folks
[20:57] <nisshh> yea i get it now
[20:58] <dutchie> we could probably say more nearer the time
[20:59] <dutchie> 26th - 28th March 2010 if I didn't mention it
[21:00] <jaminday> Can we keep moving? I have to head off in about 10mins -ish
[21:00] <dutchie> yep, sure
[21:00] <jaminday> sorry didn't mean to sound pushy ;)
[21:00] <dutchie> [TOPIC] Artwork icons
[21:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Artwork icons
[21:00] <dutchie> OK, not quite sure what this topic is about
[21:00] <dutchie> Anybody else know?
[21:01] <jaminday> i think something to do with icons for each chapter or something?
[21:01] <tacantara> Chapter icons, I believe
[21:01] <bvb> jaminday: before you run off (sorry to be off-topic), we were wondering about Oxford commas ...
[21:01] <ubuntujenkins> I guess its about the icons like the warning one
[21:01] <dutchie> ahh, good thinking bvb
[21:01] <nisshh> yea hard to say wiht benjamin
[21:01] <nisshh> without
[21:02] <jaminday> bvb: yes i hadn't forgotten about that - sorry i never replied to your email i was hoping to get some consensus from the US folk around here as to what is standard
[21:02] <godbyk> I vote for serial commas.  Reduces ambiguity.
[21:02] <jaminday> godbyk: agreed that would be my preference
[21:02] <bvb> godbyk: also agreed
[21:02] <dutchie> OK, that was quick and easy :)
[21:03] <bvb> excellent :)
[21:03] <jaminday> dutchie: sorry didn't mean to hijack the meeting!
[21:03] <dutchie> [ACTION] serial commas to be used throughout
[21:03] <MootBot> ACTION received:  serial commas to be used throughout
[21:03] <dutchie> jaminday: don't worry, it's fine
[21:03] <dutchie> ok, back to chapter icons
[21:03] <thorwil> Icons could refer to those we might put on the title page
[21:03] <thorwil> and/or those to be used as mark inside
[21:04] <dutchie> I have no idea what this is about to be honest
[21:04] <dutchie> defer it until we've got someone who knows what it is?
[21:04] <godbyk> we do still need to find an icon to introduce the warning paragraphs and whatever the other one was.. advanced or expert maybe?
[21:04] <nisshh> we need a Q&A "Ask benjamin what the hell he means!"
[21:04] <jaminday> perhaps we should have someone from the design team do some mock-ups to give us some idea
[21:05] <dutchie> there must be that sort of thing hanging around
[21:05] <nisshh> yes good idea
[21:05] <jaminday> ie liaise with benjamin so we have something concrete to discuss next meeting
[21:05] <thorwil> jaminday: if the design team can do mockups, you don't need ideas ...
[21:05] <dutchie> we could probably grab one out of GNOME if it came to it
[21:05] <ubuntujenkins> there is a warning icon in the graphics folder
[21:05] <jaminday> thorwil: sorry i meant have an idea of what we are talking about here
[21:05] <dutchie> OK, this isn't working out :)
[21:06] <dutchie> Deal with it next time?
[21:06] <thorwil> we simply need a list with descriptions of what we need icons for inside the book
[21:06] <nisshh> YES
[21:06] <thorwil> that's all
[21:06] <godbyk> dutchie: sounds good.
[21:06] <dutchie> thorwil: OK then
[21:06] <dutchie> thorwil: put a list in a text file in the source tree maybe?
[21:07] <thorwil> dutchie: said list is for those of us who are supposed to create the icons (or find them)
[21:07] <thorwil> dutchie: that's vish, perhaps wolter, myself
[21:08] <thorwil> dutchie: we don't need that in the source tree
[21:08] <nisshh> there are some good ones included with glade-3
[21:08] <dutchie> thorwil: in the wiki then?
[21:08] <KelvinGardiner> I think we should use the default Ubuntu icons, as these will be familiar to users.
[21:08] <dutchie> I thought a wiki page was overkill
[21:08] <thorwil> dutchie: mailing list
[21:08] <nisshh> yea ok
[21:08] <dutchie> thorwil: something more permanent, surely
[21:09] <thorwil> dutchie: mailing list -> wiki
[21:09] <dutchie> OK, can you sort that?
[21:10] <thorwil> no
[21:10] <dutchie> why not?
[21:10] <thorwil> if godbyk being in charge of the markup is unsure about what cases we have, how am i supposed to find out?
[21:11] <dutchie> why not start a ML thread?
[21:11] <godbyk> The two special commands I made (upon request) were \advanced and \warning.
[21:11] <godbyk> Right now we're just using !! and ! as placeholders.
[21:12] <godbyk> Beyond that, I haven't any idea what other icons we need.
[21:12] <dutchie> Do we need any others?
[21:12] <jaminday> I think Benjamin wanted an icon for each chapter heading - one that reflects the contents of that chapter
[21:12] <KelvinGardiner> maybe info  / tip
[21:13] <jaminday> ie for the one on terminal, a terminal icon next to the heading or something...
[21:13] <dutchie> jaminday: i se
[21:13] <dutchie> e
[21:13] <tacantara> Yes, that was his intention
[21:14] <dutchie> in that case, should the design team do mockups and we can review them at the next meeting?
[21:14] <tacantara> sounds like a good plan, dutchie
[21:15] <dutchie> all agreed on that?
[21:15] <dutchie> [ACTION] Design team to mock up icons for chapters, to be reviewed next meeting
[21:15] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Design team to mock up icons for chapters, to be reviewed next meeting
[21:15] <jaminday> yeah i think that would be best
[21:15] <jaminday> sorry all i'd better run or I'll be late - i think it's mostly design stuff from here on anyways
[21:16] <dutchie> Right, that's the icons done
[21:16] <dutchie> everyone good to move on?
[21:16] <ubuntujenkins> sure
[21:16] <nisshh> yep, but i need to get some sleep
[21:16] <dutchie> nisshh: no worries, last topic :)
[21:16] <nisshh> ill stay anoth 15 and then iv got to sleep
[21:16] <dutchie> [TOPIC] T-t-title page!
[21:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  T-t-title page!
[21:17]  * dutchie raises eyebrows
[21:17] <dutchie> I presume we're discussing the title page tehn
[21:17] <dutchie> then*
[21:18] <dutchie> I'm not a designer, but the one at the moment looks good
[21:18] <thorwil> i don't think there's any use to discuss it without humphreybc and wolter
[21:18] <dutchie> thorwil: agreed
[21:18] <godbyk> I agree with thorwil.
[21:18] <thorwil> and vish, of course
[21:18] <tacantara> I also agree with the design on the Alpha
[21:18] <dutchie> right
[21:19] <dutchie> [TOPIC] Any other business?
[21:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
[21:19] <dutchie> go for it, if you have anything
[21:19] <nisshh> yes agreed
[21:19] <vendaval> hello, I'm new to this
[21:19] <vendaval> but I was hoping to help out. I saw that the Glossary has not been started, can I help with that?
[21:19] <nisshh> hey there
[21:20] <godbyk> vendaval: Welcome.
[21:20] <bvb> vendaval: me too :)
[21:20] <godbyk> I haven't got the code set up for the glossary yet (I'd forgotten about it, actually).
[21:20] <bvb> i noticed an \application tag ... does that just glossarise stuff?
[21:20] <godbyk> But if you want to start highlight words that have been defined or should be defined in a glossary, that will help a lot.
[21:20] <bvb> or is that for the index?
[21:20] <nisshh> its something that should be finished by beta release
[21:20] <thorwil> good night!
[21:20] <godbyk> bvb: It adds an entry to the index, but doesn't add it to a glossary yet.
[21:21] <nisshh> night mate
[21:21] <bvb> godbyk: ok ... is there similar for glossary?
[21:21] <vendaval> ok, I'm not really sure how to work in latex and bazaar, would waiting until the 48 hour meeting explain that?
[21:21] <godbyk> bvb: There isn't yet.  I'll get a couple commands written for that soon and post to the mailing list about them.
[21:21] <godbyk> Are you guys both subscribed to the mailing list?
[21:21] <vendaval> I am.
[21:21] <bvb> yup
[21:22] <godbyk> vendaval: The 48-hour meeting will cover that, yes.
[21:22] <bvb> godbyk: sounds good
[21:22] <godbyk> LaTeX is basically just plain text files with a few \commands scattered throughout.
[21:22] <vendaval> ok, I'll wait until then before trying anything out then.
[21:23] <dutchie> so, godbyk has now been reminded to do the glossary
[21:23] <godbyk> I'll get the glossary stuff set up soon and email the list then.
[21:23] <dutchie> [ACTION] godbyk to set up glossary
[21:23] <nisshh> vendaval: if you like i can go through it with you and help you get started later
[21:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  godbyk to set up glossary
[21:23] <dutchie> anything else?
[21:23] <ubuntujenkins> I am unable to write all of  the section on totem in lucid due to a bug# 521482 . Which after a chat on irc was filled . I can write it but I will have to base it on karmic and check for differences when totem works. I can't see that being a problem just though i would let people know.
[21:23] <vendaval> nisshh: that would be great.
[21:24] <bvb> another thought ... is it worth setting up a ppa for a daily version, just to spread the word?
[21:24] <dutchie> I'm of the opinion that it doesn't need packaging
[21:24] <nisshh> ok awesome, how about straight after the next meeting?
[21:24] <nisshh> the 8 hour one i mean
[21:24] <nisshh> 48 hour one
[21:24] <godbyk> I don't think it needs packaging (yet).
[21:25] <godbyk> But we could look into a daily build sort of thing.
[21:25] <godbyk> I'll see what I can set up.
[21:25] <ubuntujenkins> I am happy to change the version on the main page each day If i can work out how
[21:25] <bvb> that's what i was wondering - it didn't look like the website actually had daily builds
[21:25] <godbyk> dutchie: Can we get the translations to be reincorporated more frequently?  Or will that screw up rosetta?
[21:25] <KelvinGardiner> Can the build script put the bzr rev number in?
[21:26] <godbyk> KelvinGardiner: In the filename or the document itself?
[21:26] <ubuntujenkins> file name sounds good
[21:26] <KelvinGardiner> godbyk: for the cover, during the dev cycle.
[21:26] <nisshh> ok, cya later guys
[21:27] <dutchie> godbyk: I'm just looking
[21:27] <godbyk> KelvinGardiner: Hmm. that may be a bit more difficult.  Could probably be done, but might be a pain. Would involve editing the svg file, then exporting it each time (which takes a while).
[21:27] <godbyk> KelvinGardiner: I could probably set it up to be included on the copyright page for now, though.
[21:28] <dutchie> godbyk: launchpad exports the translations to a bzr branch every day
[21:28] <dutchie> godbyk: I tried merging it in earlier, and there were about 15 million merge conflicts
[21:28] <KelvinGardiner> godbyk: ok
[21:28] <dutchie> I eventually just wiped the old content with the new stuff
[21:28] <tacantara> Have to log out now.  Time to get ready for my annual Valentine's Dinner with the missus :)  Take care, all
[21:28] <godbyk> dutchie: Would we want to merge or overwrite with just the po files from the translated branch?
[21:29] <godbyk> See ya, tacantara.
[21:29] <dutchie> godbyk: in theory, both should accomplish the same thing
[21:29] <dutchie> but I ended up overwriting them
[21:30] <godbyk> I think it'd be useful for the translators to be able to see the effect of their work (the translated PDF).
[21:30] <dutchie> godbyk: sure
[21:30] <godbyk> That way they can yell at me if I need to fix formatting issues for their language.
[21:31] <dutchie> I should be able to get into updating the translations every day
[21:31] <godbyk> I think that all these translations are going to be more time-consuming than what people realize.
[21:31] <dutchie> they certainly are
[21:31] <godbyk> dutchie: I know I keep asking, but just to be sure, we're not irking the translators if we do that, right?  I mean, it doesn't just discard their previous work?
[21:32] <dutchie> not if it's unchanged
[21:32] <godbyk> Okay.
[21:32] <dutchie> obviously, if it is changed, their previous work isn't much use
[21:32] <godbyk> Well, if it's a spelling error or missing comma that's been fixed in a huge paragraph, their previous work is still of use.
[21:32] <godbyk> At this point, we're not rewriting a lot, are we? Just editing now?
[21:33] <godbyk> (I haven't kept up with what people are writing, so I could be completely off base there.)
[21:33] <dutchie> fixing that sort of thing'll be hard to automate
[21:33] <bvb> well, i'm off too...
[21:33] <KelvinGardiner> godbyk: some sections are still unwritten.
[21:33] <godbyk> See ya, bvb.
[21:35] <dutchie> Are we done for the meeting then?
[21:35] <dutchie> godbyk and myself can discuss the automation some other time
[21:35] <godbyk> I guess.  I think everyone left us. :)
[21:36] <dutchie> shout if you want something else...
[21:36] <vendaval> goodbye
[21:36] <ubuntujenkins> are we going to update the version on luanchpad each day then?
[21:36] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: if we ca
[21:36] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'll set up a script to update it daily or something, yeah.
[21:36] <dutchie> n
[21:36] <dutchie> so, next meeting
[21:37] <dutchie> #ubuntu-meeting is in use from 2100 next week
[21:37] <ubuntujenkins> cool a script sounds good I can upload them if nessicary
[21:37] <dutchie> I doubt we'll finish in an hour, going on past performances
[21:37] <godbyk> Can we have the meeting here again?
[21:37] <dutchie> sure
[21:37] <dutchie> everyone agreed then?
[21:37] <KelvinGardiner> Sounds good.
[21:37] <dutchie> 2000UTC here 20/02/10
[21:37] <godbyk> dutchie: Sounds good.
[21:37] <dutchie> brilliant
[21:38] <godbyk> You should add it to the wiki. :)
[21:38] <dutchie> i'll write it up when we've finished
[21:38] <KelvinGardiner> I'm going to buy some milk, see you next time.
[21:38] <dutchie> right, ending then
[21:38] <dutchie> last chance...
[21:38] <godbyk> see ya, KelvinGardiner
[21:38] <dutchie> #endmeeting
[21:38] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:38.
[21:39] <dutchie> and we're done
[21:40] <godbyk> cool
[21:40] <godbyk> that was mostly painless.  nice job! :)
[21:40] <dutchie> now the fun bit
[21:40] <ubuntujenkins> MSG mattgriffin
[22:00] <humphreybc> hi everyone, sorry i missed the meeting this morning - slept in. up late studying last night
[22:00] <humphreybc> how did it go?
[22:02] <dutchie> humphreybc: not too bad
[22:02] <dutchie> just writing it up no
[22:02] <dutchie> w
[22:02] <humphreybc> cool i'm just reading the log :)
[22:02] <humphreybc> nice work on charing it
[22:02] <humphreybc> chairing*
[22:03] <dutchie> humphreybc: you can investigate  http://etherpad.com/ov6YwNDcDi too
[22:06] <dutchie> meh, that'll do
[22:06] <humphreybc> why do i get the gut feeling that 1600 and 0400 are the worst possible times ever for me :P
[22:06] <dutchie> feel free to change it round
[22:06] <humphreybc> 5am and 5pm
[22:06] <humphreybc> that's not that bad
[22:06] <humphreybc> i'll just have to get up super early :P
[22:07] <dutchie> we just thought it'd be best to put your intro first
[22:07] <dutchie> damn
[22:07] <humphreybc> yep that's the intention, good decision
[22:07] <humphreybc> nah it's all good, 5am is workable. i'll get lots done that day
[22:07] <humphreybc> haha
[22:07] <dutchie> forgot to mention my/stuart langridge's IRC talk script
[22:07] <dutchie> only any use for irssi/xchat users
[22:08] <humphreybc> oh yes?
[22:09] <godbyk> What's it do?
[22:09] <dutchie> stuart langridge wrote the original xchat one, then I ported it to irssi
[22:09] <dutchie> hang on
[22:09] <dutchie> http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2009/08/31/delivering-talks-by-irc-an-xchat-plugin
[22:10] <humphreybc> so everyone liked the idea of the 48 hours thing?
[22:10] <dutchie> seemed to
[22:12] <humphreybc> i'm liking the screenshotToDO command thing
[22:12] <humphreybc> neat
[22:13] <humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Jam
[22:13] <humphreybc> technically a jam is over IRC
[22:13] <humphreybc> i mean
[22:13] <humphreybc> technically it's in person
[22:14] <humphreybc> but my plan was for us to work on it over IRC/in person/however we can
[22:14] <dutchie> as I said in the meeting, we need to get people to work on it at the jam
[22:14] <dutchie> going along ourselves would be handy also
[22:15] <humphreybc> yup
[22:15] <humphreybc> i'm trying to organize one in dunedin
[22:16] <humphreybc> but we have a fairly good spread of people around the world, if we can get a few people to some jams to represent the manual team then that would get more word out about our project
[22:16] <humphreybc> hahaha the "artwork icons" topic was basically to discuss icons for everything... the title page, the warning ones, and chapter heading icons. who's going to make them, what they'll look like, where they'll go and how many we need
[22:19] <ubuntujenkins> I have just done a clean install in lucid and can't compile the manual the install script runs fine but running make gives http://paste.ubuntu.com/375761/ theres another package that needs installing and I can't rember it any know?
[22:19] <humphreybc> oh neat there were a couple of new people in the meeting
[22:19] <humphreybc> godbyk: ping - above ^^
[22:22] <humphreybc> dutchie: "I tried merging it in earlier, and there were about 15 million merge conflicts"
[22:22] <humphreybc> "I eventually just wiped the old content with the new stuff"
[22:22] <humphreybc> is that going to mean the end of the world from the translation peopel?
[22:22] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Try apt-get install texlive-fonts-recommended
[22:23] <humphreybc> nice meeting fellas
[22:26] <ubuntujenkins> found it is textlive-fonts-reccomended
[22:27] <humphreybc> dutchie: howcome jamin's editing has a stroke through it on the etherpad?
[22:28] <dutchie> humphreybc: because he couldn't do that time
[22:28] <dutchie> humphreybc: no, it's not
[22:28] <dutchie> humphreybc: I wiped it with their translations
[22:28] <humphreybc> righto
[22:31]  * humphreybc updates the 48 hours wiki with times from etherpad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/48hours
[22:33] <dutchie> there are quite a lot of translations being updated :)
[22:33] <ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk i found it.
[22:34] <godbyk> No problem.
[22:34] <godbyk> I'll be back in a bit.  Gonna shower and find something to eat.
[22:35] <humphreybc> dutchie: take a look at this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid/LernidEvent
[22:35] <dutchie> seen it :)
[22:35] <humphreybc> cool
[22:35] <humphreybc> do you want to write it or should i?
[22:35] <dutchie> not sure where the ones that make it built in should go
[22:36] <dutchie> but I'll do it, if you like
[22:36] <humphreybc> awesome, thanks. i've got exams that i should probably study for and then i have to make slides for all my talks... while also on holiday for 3 days O.o
[22:36] <dutchie> well, you don't have to do slides
[22:36] <humphreybc> (i'm going to a holiday house in the country with 10 friends and the plan is to not take my laptop!)
[22:37] <humphreybc> yeah i will for my lessons though
[22:37] <humphreybc> i'll create some youtube videos too