[06:41] <Nutubuntu> disasm - you seem to know about ext3 - does it make any difference (vs ext2) if the drive starts to go bad (throw bad sectors)?
[06:41] <archaios> shawnr_, significantly more efficient
[06:41] <NickRivers> tritium: why "yikes" ?
[06:41] <Madpilot> NickRivers, picking an FS known for crashing for backups seems... odd, at least ;)
[06:41] <archaios> Nutubuntu, not really
[06:41] <Sarra_> Grr
[06:41] <archaios> Nutubuntu, ext3 doesn't protect against physical failure
[06:41] <Sarra_> It's being dumb
[06:41] <LajujKej> so would I 'rmmod bcm43xx'
[06:41] <Sarra_> brb I need to modify fstab again
[06:41] <tritium> NickRivers: just a scary thought of trusting reiserfs to backup your data
[06:42] <shawnr_> Madpilot, which fs is know for crashing?
[06:42] <NickRivers> tritium: didn't know it was an issue
[06:42] <cafuego_> LajujKej: blacklist it (or get rid of ndiswrapper and use bcm43xx, which usually works fine).
[06:42] <disasm> Nutubuntu: a few bad sectors i would think the journal would help, but if there is a significant amount no fs is going to help, that's what backups are for
[06:42] <Madpilot> shawnr_, reiser
[06:42] <archaios> disasm, it doesn't.
[06:42] <Nutubuntu> archaios - yeah,  nothing would - if data is stored to an area that fails, the data'd be munged. I must be tired out, I I should know that.
[06:42] <archaios> ext3 does not mark bad blocks, disasm -- if the write fails, it's not corrected
[06:42] <Nutubuntu> Amen to backups, disasm
[06:42] <Ademan> in the *.ISO file there's a dir called "casper" and in it there's filesystem.manifest, and it looks to be a list of packages to be installed upon installation , is that true?
[06:42] <brendonjt> madpilot:  what is the better FS  to use
[06:42] <disasm> archaios: ok
[06:42] <archaios> 1st-gen journalling filesystems do not provide such protection
[06:42] <motin> the playback device "hw:0" is already in use. Please stop the application using it <-- how do I know which is the process?
[06:42] <archaios> reiser4 is more resilient to that sort of damage
[06:43] <shawnr_> Madpilot, so you agree that ext3 is good for my backups?
[06:43] <archaios> but reiser4 is not widely deployed and thus not highly tested yet
[06:43] <Madpilot> brendonjt, Ubuntu's default is ext3
[06:43] <archaios> shawnr_, ext3 primarily prevents data loss through sudden power failures, etc -- it also saves lengthy fscks and such
[06:43] <archaios> shawnr_, it won't save you from failing hardware
[06:43] <wweasel> shawnr_: Yes, use ext3. ext2 is not more stable or whatever kool-aid that other guy is feeding you
[06:43] <disasm> archaios: good to know
[06:44] <brendonjt> madpilot:  i mean for say a second harddrive orpartition
[06:44] <archaios> reiser3 is faster, but it's a matter of personal opinion
[06:44] <Sarra_> Okay, wtf
[06:44] <archaios> as to what you prefer
[06:44] <Sarra_> oh, duh, hold on
[06:44] <archaios> certainly, I'm a big fan of Hans Reiser's work
[06:44] <archaios> XFS and JFS aren't bad, either
[06:44] <xelados> Sarra_: Any luck with your drive/partition?
[06:45] <Sarra_> What the hell
[06:45] <Sarra_> It's not letting me mount it at all now
[06:45] <LajujKej> I think I've removed bcm43xx, but I still cannot connect to these networks I see
[06:46] <xelados> What command and error are you getting?
[06:46] <xelados> Are you using the 'remount' option?
[06:46] <Sarra_> It's not giving an error
[06:46] <CarlFK> how do I tell what version of a package is installed, like ImageMagick ?
[06:46] <aeruz> Hello there!!!!
[06:46] <xelados> CarlFK: imagemagick --help ?
[06:46] <Nutubuntu> archaios-  about journaling - does that mean that a write is not complete until it's committed, so to speak, to the journal? So that if system crashes while data is being written, it's as if it hasn't been written? I should probably look this up ...
[06:47] <Sarra_> Okay, there
[06:47] <xelados> or --version?
[06:47] <Sarra_> Fixed fstab right
[06:47] <ladydoor> CarlFK: which imagemagick
[06:47] <Sarra_> Whoa, thanks a ton xelados
[06:47] <archaios> Nutubuntu, well, there is two forms of journalling
[06:47] <Sarra_> I can actually read/write with full permissions now. :D
[06:47] <archaios> data journalling and structure journalling
[06:47] <CarlFK> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/graphics/imagemagick
[06:47] <Nutubuntu> ladydoor - which tells you where the software lives, not what version, I think
[06:48] <CarlFK> xelados: it is a package name, not a command
[06:48] <aeruz> I used gentoo for quite some time, and I remember I could see the binary files trough xterm nicely with the source code, nowwith ubuntu I can't do that, why is that??
[06:48] <xelados> Sarra_: No problem. Mounting can be a pain sometimes. :D
[06:48] <archaios> Nutubuntu: ext3 by default writes all data to the journal, in a record-centric manner, immediately - i.e. it is not cached
[06:48] <Sarra_> lmao nice pun
[06:48] <ladydoor>  oh, lol...i thought zie was just trying to see whether it was installed period. maybe i should read more carefully
[06:48] <archaios> Nutubuntu: the actual commit to the filesystem is done in a lazy (write-back caching) manner
[06:48] <Nutubuntu> archaios - I think I understand that
[06:48] <archaios> Nutubuntu: if the system crashes, there is a copy of the data in the journal which can be used to recover
[06:48] <archaios> reiser3 does partial journalling, so it's significantly faster
[06:48] <xelados> CarlFK: I think Synaptic allows you to check the properties of a package, including the version you have installed.
[06:48] <archaios> it stores primarily FS integrity records
[06:49] <archaios> but reiser3 is more liable to experience data loss with a crash, though filesystem integrity will be intact
[06:49] <NickRivers> what would I use to change the fs on my backup hdd?
[06:49] <archaios> there's a trade off between journalling form and filesystem speed
[06:49] <AWOSDev> Is there any place that sells Linux-compatible modems open during a hurricane?
[06:49] <archaios> NickRivers, ext3 or reiser3 with data journalling enabled
[06:49] <archaios> or xfs
[06:49] <CarlFK> xelados: hoping for a command line way so I can cut/paste int an email
[06:49] <Nutubuntu> archaios - got it - I will go hunt me down more info via google, and not tie up the chan on it, this is interesting to me - the trade-offs in particular
[06:49] <ladydoor> CarlFK: and aptitude definitely does
[06:49] <NickRivers> archaios: not which fs... which program do i use to change the fs?
[06:49] <archaios> Nutubuntu: namesys.com has a great overview of journalling
[06:49] <Nutubuntu> t/y archaios
[06:50] <archaios> NickRivers, you can't change fs without backing it up and performing an mk*fs
[06:50] <archaios> well
[06:50] <archaios> some partition management programs can do it
[06:50] <archaios> but not many
[06:50] <archaios> you can switch from ext2 to ext3 easily
[06:50] <archaios> and vice-versa
[06:50] <archaios> tune2fs -j, etc
[06:50] <xasaya> hello
[06:51] <archaios> NickRivers, if you're currently using ext2, it's a simple matter to change to ext3
[06:51] <xelados> Anyone know where fluxbox stores its included styles by any chance?
[06:51] <NickRivers> archaios: ok... lemme be more specific... I don't care if I wipe out the data on my backup hdd - there's nothing on there that isn't on my system hdd... what prgram do i use to repartition it with a different fs?
[06:51] <archaios> xelados, /usr/share or /usr/local/share somewhere I think
[06:51] <archaios> possibly lib if it's not there
[06:51] <xelados> archaios: Alright, thanks. I'll check.
[06:51] <archaios> NickRivers, well, you don't need to repartition
[06:51] <CarlFK> NickRivers: the ubuntu install cd will do it
[06:51] <archaios> NickRivers, if you want to change to ext3: mke2fs -j
[06:51] <archaios> NickRivers, if you want to change to reiserfs: mkreiserfs
[06:52] <archaios> in either case
[06:52] <NickRivers> archaios: it's reiserfs atm... I want to change it to ext3
[06:52] <xelados> archaios: Yep, it was usr/share/fluxbox/styles
[06:52] <archaios> NickRivers, I recommend you stay with reiserfs
[06:52] <archaios> and enable data journalling
[06:52] <archaios> which is easy enough
[06:52] <corndog_> Anyone have an idea why my computer crashes when I burn a cd? 64bit ubuntu... both gnomebaker and k3b
[06:52] <archaios> higher performance and the same level of safety
[06:52] <NickRivers> archaios: ok - how do I enable data journaling?
[06:52] <CarlFK> NickRivers: why do you want to change, and do you want a fresh OS install?
[06:52] <archaios> NickRivers: one moment
[06:52] <brendonjt> archaios:  what about from fat32
[06:52] <LajujKej> I am still confused about this wireless card.  Ndiswrapper shows the driver and hardware present, but I cannpt connect to networks.
[06:53] <brendonjt> archaios:  what about from fat32 to say ext3  or reiser
[06:53] <archaios> NickRivers, do you have the device name for your backup drive?
[06:53] <LajujKej> I am pretty sure I blacklisted the other driver
[06:53] <AWOSDev> LajujKej: Try wlassistant
[06:53] <NickRivers> archaios: yes
[06:53] <archaios> brendonjt, the only option there is to backup and repartition
[06:53] <archaios> NickRivers, ok, edit /etc/fstab
[06:53] <michael> on the topic of file systems, whats the opinion if ur sharing w/windows?
[06:53] <archaios> NickRivers, find the relevant line
[06:53] <michael> vfat?
[06:53] <archaios> for the backup device
[06:53] <archaios> and paste it
[06:53] <brendonjt> archaios:  i have a backup drive and it is fat32
[06:53] <Madpilot> michael, there are Windows drivers for ext3 available
[06:53] <casey_> michael: i've been using ntfs-3g which has been nice for ntfs support.
[06:54] <CarlFK> michael:  www.fs-driver.org It provides Windows NT4.0/2000/XP with full access to Linux Ext2 volumes (read access and write access).
[06:54] <LajujKej> AWOSDev that command isn't found
[06:54] <michael> but does it corrupt?
[06:54] <xelados> michael: I'd suggest FAT32. Windows and Linux can both read and write to them. However, I think NTFS write support was recently implemented.
[06:54] <NickRivers> archaios: /dev/sda1       /backups        reiserfs        defaults,notail 0       0
[06:54] <casey_> michael: not so far, it doesn't.
[06:54] <archaios> NickRivers, ok
[06:54] <archaios> change that to...
[06:54] <AWOSDev> LajujKej: try sudo apt-get install wlassistant first :)
[06:54] <Axe_>  /I'm having trouble with a launcher in my applications menu.
[06:54] <archaios> /dev/sda1       /backups        reiserfs        defaults,notail,data=journal 0       0
[06:54] <Axe_> It launches a shell script
[06:54] <michael> tx, ill check it out
[06:54] <Axe_> Yet the terminal opens up and closes real quick
[06:54] <archaios> NickRivers: so, add ",data=journal" after notail
[06:54] <Axe_> why?
[06:54] <NickRivers> archaios: can i do that for my system hdd as well?
[06:54] <archaios> and save the file
[06:55] <archaios> NickRivers: sure
[06:55] <NickRivers> thnx
[06:55] <Axe_> If I double click on said script in nautilus it works fine
[06:55] <LajujKej> AWOSDev is this program similar to network manager, which is what I am running?
[06:55] <archaios> NickRivers: all you need to do is add ,data=journal to the fourth field (the one that contains 'defaults')
[06:55] <xasaya> somebody can help to resolv a problem of rendering under cinelerra?
[06:55] <archaios> NickRivers: then reboot
[06:55] <xelados> Thanks for the help, guys.
[06:55] <AWOSDev> LajujKej: No, it shows you all the different wireless networks available in your range
[06:56] <LajujKej> AWOSDev but I can see these already?
[06:56] <archaios> michael: you can use RFSTool and related GUIs to access ReiserFS Linux partitions from Windows, too
[06:56] <archaios> there's plenty of tools for ext2/3 access of course
[06:57] <zoidberg> what else do i need to play  .wmv .avi quikticme and realplayer fiels that are streaming from a webpage
[06:57] <jpjacobs> zoidberg, mozilla-mplayer?
[06:57] <archaios> mplayer is a good choice
[06:57] <zoidberg> guys is there a gxine plugin for playing streaming files in firefox including .wmv
[06:58] <jpjacobs> zoidberg, there is
[06:58] <archaios> zoidberg, MPlayer is a much better media player in my view
[06:58] <zoidberg> really
[06:58] <archaios> it supports a great deal more formats
[06:58] <zoidberg> damn
[06:58] <zoidberg> okay
[06:58] <zoidberg> so what do i need to install
[06:58] <xasaya> cinelerra? one more time...
[06:58] <archaios> zoidberg, mplayer and mozilla-mplayer as jpjacobs suggested
[06:58] <Nutubuntu> archaios:   thanks for pointing me to namesys.com, interesting site, lots to read there :)
[06:58] <Nutubuntu> Be well, all
[06:58] <archaios> Nutubuntu: yes, it's quite interesting, has in-depth discussion of reiserfs
[06:58] <archaios> damn
[06:58] <archaios> missed him!
[06:58] <jpjacobs> zoidberg, indeed, i tried it, and (maybe it has improved ) back then it sucked: it just opened a new gxine window, and with a whole lot of luck it was playing
[06:59] <archaios> mplayer is very fast and efficient, even played DVDs well on my old celeron 333 without any hardware decoding support
[06:59] <archaios> better than any windows app!
[06:59] <hitjim> 2.6.12-10-386 has a date of Jul 18 this year, is that still the most recent kernel?
[07:00] <zoidberg> i just thought gxine would be better
[07:00] <zoidberg> i like it for playing stuff form my hard drive
[07:00] <zoidberg> but i guess its the way to go for streaming stuff
[07:00] <archaios> hitjim, if you're talking about vanilla kernels, no
[07:00] <archaios> <IP_ADDRESS> is out, and 2.6.18-rc5
[07:00] <signius> Hi guys
[07:01] <hitjim> figures... used an old install cd
[07:01] <hitjim> thx
[07:01] <zoidberg> by the way guys
[07:01] <signius> Has anyone here managed to succesfully get the version of Evolution in dapper drake to connect to an Exchange 2003 Server
[07:01] <zoidberg> anyone know how to get ATI TV-Wonder card to work on dapper?
[07:01] <Madpilot> hitjim, if you've installed Ubuntu, you'll be updated to the most recent kernel in the repos automatically...
[07:01] <signius> I just get constant authentication failures
[07:02] <hitjim> ya, it's just ubuntu w/kubuntu-desktop &packages etc
[07:02] <cracka12> does anyone know how i software raid 2 drives, these will just data drives (raid0) and mount them on /home
[07:02] <xasaya> its crazy, all ubuntu channel (ubuntu-fr, ubuntu-tw, ubuntu, cinelerra) don't respond me....
[07:02] <kerwonz> :-)
[07:02] <hitjim> ya kind of threw me with vanilla there
[07:02] <xasaya> and it's an important software for linux users like me
[07:02] <archaios> hitjim: sorry, I tend to use vanilla kernels... I'm a little unorthodox ;)
[07:02] <hitjim> hah, fair enough
[07:03] <hitjim> so what flavor is the standard install?
[07:03] <meathead> exit
[07:03] <rage> Can someone point me in the right direction for a package that can be used to be a roaming profile server for Windows boxes? or better yet a guide on how to setup one for a small network?
[07:03] <cracka12> does anyone know how i software raid 2 drives, these will just data drives (raid0) and mount them on a user account
[07:03] <BHSPitLappy> !root
[07:03] <ubotu> sudo is a command to run programs with superuser privileges ("root"). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for all information.
[07:04] <kitsuneofdoom> I have been using screen, irssi, ssh, and bitlbee together for a little while, but now I'm suddenly having a whole host of problems. Screen keeps quitting on me and doing funky things, irssi hangs as well
[07:04] <xasaya> houhou, there is someone?
[07:04] <hitjim> well... back to trying to get my onboard broadcom wifi to work.  ndiswrapper, here we come
[07:05] <kitsuneofdoom> Actually, it's only had problems when I've been talking over wifi
[07:05] <cafuego_> hitjim: A 4306 or 4318 can use the normal free driver (with firmware).
[07:05] <dougsko> umm...what do you guys get when you run 'which cd'? for some crazy reason, it doesnt return anything for me
[07:05] <dougsko> i cant find the cd command. but it does work
[07:06] <brendonjt> i formated my second hdd to ext3  how do i automount it
[07:06] <dougsko> i know it should be at /bin/cd, but its not
[07:06] <Jukru> dougsko: maybe "cd" is shell built-in command?
[07:06] <kitsuneofdoom> Ok. I have been using screen over ssh to access an irssi session which also has bitlbee running over it, and everything started to spontaneously quit on me when I accessed it over wifi.
[07:06] <hitjim> hmm... i'll give it a shot
[07:06] <hitjim> thx
[07:06] <dougsko> brendonjt: add it to /etc/fstab
[07:07] <kitsuneofdoom> well, not quit, it hung. and then stopped working
[07:07] <dougsko> kitsuneofdoom: maybe your connection  lost strength?
[07:07] <hitjim> is that the madwifi?
[07:07] <brendonjt> ok and the options for all users?
[07:07] <CarlFK> dougsko: man bash... /cd... "HOME   The home directory of the current user; the default argument for              the cd builtin command.  ":
[07:07] <hitjim> cafuego?
[07:07] <dougsko> Jukru: hmm...i didnt know it worked like that. i thought cd was its own program
[07:07] <kitsuneofdoom>  dougsko: but the screen session on the SERVING computr crashed
[07:08] <Ademan> is there any easy way to change the packages that the liveCD will run with?
[07:08] <kitsuneofdoom> dougsko: if the connection was lost, if I looked at the serving computers scren session, it should still be operational
[07:08] <dougsko> kitsuneofdoom: thats wierd
[07:08] <cafuego_> hitjim: wiki.ubuntu.com -> search for bcm43xx - follow the instructions :-)
[07:09] <hitjim> indeed.  ty
[07:09] <Ashex> what's the proper syntax for checking out from an svn?
[07:09] <dougsko> kitsuneofdoom: yeah
[07:09] <AWOSDev> I found that for the 4318, it's easier and works better if you use NDISwrapper.
[07:09] <Ashex> such as this one: http://publicsvn.songbirdnest.com/trac/browser/trunk
[07:09] <dougsko> kitsuneofdoom: does screen crash during the use of other programs?
[07:09] <kitsuneofdoom> dougsko: Well, I haven't tested it much, I'm normally using irssi and bitlbee
[07:10] <dougsko> kitsuneofdoom: its gotta be something small. im using that exact same setup right now
[07:10] <SpComb> cracka12: mdadm --create --level=0 --raid-devices=2 /dev/md0 /dev/sdc /dev/sdb && mkfs.ext3 /dev/md0 && mkdir /mnt/data/ && mount /dev/md0 /mnt/data/ .... tell me if you figure out how to make it automatically assemble the raid on bootup though
[07:10] <CarlFK> Ashex:  svn checkout svn://...
[07:10] <CarlFK> Ashex: not sure about svn and http access
[07:10] <dougsko> does it work ok if youre wired?
[07:11] <kitsuneofdoom> dougsko: oddly enough, I don't recall as much problems when the laptop I had been connecting to it over wifi was on windows
[07:11] <brendonjt> dougsko: what about the options  and the likes  don't really get that  off hand
[07:11] <Ashex> yeah, i'm don't feel like downloading one file at a time
[07:11] <blfisher> When using iptables to masquerade my LAN, I can get on the internet but cannot connect to IRC from the LAN
[07:11] <kitsuneofdoom> dougsko: no problems wired
[07:11] <blfisher> Does anyone know why this might be happening?
[07:11] <kitsuneofdoom> dougsko: it might be an error with the Linux wifi driver?
[07:11] <kitsuneofdoom> dougsko: I have a broadcom 4319
[07:12] <wubrgamer> how do i change ssh from port 22 to port 443
[07:12] <dougsko> kitsuneofdoom: thats always a possibility i guess. wireless and linux really kinda sucks
[07:12] <wubrgamer> to listen etc.
[07:12] <Jukru> wubrgamer: edit /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[07:12] <cafuego_> kitsuneofdoom: I don't know if that one is actually supported yet by the version of bcm43xx in Dapper.
[07:12] <dougsko> brendonjt: what options do you mean?
[07:12] <cafuego_> wubrgamer: edit /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[07:12] <kitsuneofdoom> cafuego_ and dougsko: you got to admit, it's a really odd bug
[07:13] <wubrgamer> what about /etc/ssh/ssh_config
[07:13] <wubrgamer> not the sshd one but just ssh
[07:13] <wubrgamer> cause there are two files
[07:13] <wubrgamer> and i'm confuzzles
[07:13] <brendonjt> read write for all users
[07:13] <cafuego_> wubrgamer: No, I'd have said it if I had meant that one ;-)
[07:13] <Jukru> wubrgamer: just edit sshd_config
[07:13] <dougsko> kitsuneofdoom: yeah, what wlan driver do you use?
[07:13] <brendonjt> dougsko: read write for all userws
[07:13] <wubrgamer> but what IS ssh_config ? what's the difference ?
[07:13] <kitsuneofdoom> dougsko: the fwcutter one
[07:13] <archaios> ssh_config is for the client
[07:13] <mikey3521> Hey, Would anyone here beable to offer me some support with a DellPowerEdge/ UbuntuServerInstall & PercRaid? I've had the server for almost 2 weeks and havn't beenable to get it working, and no-one seems to have an answer...
[07:14] <wubrgamer> that's the main thing confuzzling me
[07:14] <archaios> sshd_config is for the server
[07:14] <wubrgamer> aah
[07:14] <wubrgamer> thank you
[07:14] <wubrgamer> so one more thing
[07:14] <wubrgamer> if i DO edit the client one
[07:14] <wubrgamer> what happens ?
[07:14] <dougsko> kitsuneofdoom: oh, ive never even heard of that one... :P
[07:14] <archaios> nothing
[07:14] <archaios> wubrgamer, if you add a server parameter to the client config, it won't do anything
[07:14] <wubrgamer> no
[07:14] <cafuego_> wubrgamer: You could add an entry on client to ssh_config and tell it to sue port 443 when connection to that specific server.
[07:14] <wubrgamer> no
[07:14] <archaios> 443 is SSL
[07:14] <archaios> why would you do that?
[07:14] <wubrgamer> but what if i replace 22 to 443
[07:15] <cafuego_> archaios: Hole in firewall
[07:15] <wubrgamer> so i can evade my schools blocking of port 22
[07:15] <wubrgamer> thank you
[07:15] <dougsko> brendonjt: im sorry, what program are you setting up?
[07:15] <archaios> wubrgamer, if port 22 is blocked, use another port
[07:15] <CarlFK> mikey3521: I would post to the -server list - the raid is goingto need someone special
[07:15] <archaios> not a "well-known" port
[07:15] <archaios> besides
[07:15] <wubrgamer> i am
[07:15] <archaios> many schools/universities/etc. block port 80 and 443, or require transparent proxying
[07:15] <wubrgamer> what ?
[07:15] <archaios> better to use an unusual port
[07:15] <wubrgamer> really ?
[07:15] <brendonjt> dougsko: fstab  to allow me access to my second harddrive
[07:15] <archaios> wubrgamer, yes
[07:16] <archaios> my institution, for one, blocks port 80 unless you use their proxy
[07:16] <mikey3521> Carlfx, Where can i post to this list?
[07:16] <dougsko> brendonjt: oh ok, my fault :)
[07:16] <wubrgamer> oh
[07:16] <wubrgamer> but can't i just use their proxy to connect to my home account ?
[07:16] <wubrgamer> on port 443 ?
[07:16] <brendonjt> dougsko: noworries
[07:16] <dougsko> brendonjt: a good thing to do is just look at how your other drives are mounted
[07:16] <archaios> wubrgamer, yes
[07:16] <kitsuneofdoom> Ok. I've got a bizarre problem here. When I try to connect to a screen session over secure shell running irssi and bitlbee with my 64-bit laptop to my 32-bit desktop, both running Dapper 6.06, using my broadcom 4319 card and the fwcutter driver (the 64 bit one) screen or irssi crash a lot
[07:16] <archaios> even through a proxy, you can
[07:16] <archaios> because CONNECT is permitted explicitly for 443 on all proxies that support SSL HTTP
[07:16] <CarlFK> mikey3521: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
[07:17] <archaios> wubrgamer, but if you can use a port other than 443
[07:17] <archaios> I would advise it
[07:17] <wubrgamer> kk
[07:17] <dougsko> brendonjt: you have it mounted already you said?
[07:17] <wubrgamer> i'll try em both out
[07:17] <NickRivers> anyone know how I would go about adding terminal to the right-click menu on my desktop?
[07:17] <wubrgamer> @nickrivers what are you using ?
[07:17] <archaios> wubrgamer, use a non-standard port so that you're not conflicting with a "well-known" service port
[07:17] <dougsko> NickRivers: what wm?
[07:17] <cafuego_> NickRivers: install nautilus-open-terminal
[07:17] <NickRivers> wubrgamer: gnome
[07:17] <archaios> wubrgamer, lest you need to run an SSL-capable httpd someday
[07:17] <wubrgamer> what do you mean conflict ?
[07:18] <stacy> hi all... I got the "Blue screen of death" when I tried to upgrade to dapper... I saw this: http://www.ubuntu.com/FixForUpgradeIssue and did everything it says, but I still get the bluescreen when I boot into Ubuntu... any help?
[07:18] <archaios> wubrgamer, ports are allocated with the IANA (/etc/services et al) for specific purposes
[07:18] <brendonjt> nope i formated it  to ext3  and trying to mount it
[07:18] <archaios> you can use any port for any service
[07:18] <wubrgamer> oh wow
[07:18] <archaios> but it's not recommended
[07:18] <cafuego_> wubrgamer: As long as the port you want to run sshd on is not already in use, pick whichever one you want.
[07:18] <brendonjt> dougsko:nope i formated it  to ext3  and trying to mount it
[07:18] <archaios> because it can cause all sorts of confusion
[07:18] <dougsko> brendonjt: what's the drive called?
[07:18] <dougsko> brendonjt: like /dev/hdb4 or something?
[07:18] <archaios> wubrgamer, are you able to make outgoing connections on ports > 5000 for example?
[07:18] <wubrgamer> i'm not sure
[07:19] <wubrgamer> but the main thing is that i'm not going to be hosting anything on 443
[07:19] <archaios> wubrgamer, find out, and preferably use such a port :P
[07:19] <brendonjt> dougsko: /dev/hdb1  <mount point> /media/misc
[07:19] <wubrgamer> but i'm not HOSTING anything on 443
[07:19] <archaios> wubrgamer, I know you're not, but it's best practice
[07:19] <archaios> wubrgamer, anyway, if they force you to use a proxy for outgoing HTTP and SSL connections, 443 may not be the best choice
[07:19] <brendonjt> dougsko: i want it so all users  can access it read/write
[07:19] <wubrgamer> why not ?
[07:19] <archaios> wubrgamer, do you require a proxy setup in your browser at school?
[07:20] <wubrgamer> @archaios, move into Pm, we are dominating the channel
[07:21] <dougsko> brendonjt: add a line to /ets/fstab like this:
[07:21] <dougsko> /dev/hdb4       /mnt/hdb        ext3    defaults        0       0
[07:22] <dougsko> change the /dev/ and the mount point
[07:22] <dougsko> and that's all on one line
[07:22] <corndog_> Whats the best way to trace a system crash?
[07:23] <dougsko> corndog_: dmesg is helpful sometimes
[07:23] <stacy>  hi all... I got the "Blue screen of death" when I tried to upgrade to dapper... I saw this: http://www.ubuntu.com/FixForUpgradeIssue and did everything it says, but I still get the bluescreen when I boot into Ubuntu... any help?
[07:23] <dougsko> brendonjt: did you add the line?
[07:24] <corndog_> dougsko, thanks ill read up on that
[07:24] <tomasz27> is it hard to setup DREAMWEAVER using WINE under Ubuntu?
[07:24] <brendonjt> dougsko: yip thanks
[07:24] <dougsko> corndog_: just type 'dmesg'
[07:24] <fyrestrtr> stacy: what kind of video card do you have?
[07:24] <fr500> hello
[07:24] <dougsko> brendonjt: ok, now to mount it, type 'mount -a'
[07:25] <dougsko> brendonjt: and then type 'mount' to confirm that it worked
[07:25] <xasaya> some cinelerra users?
[07:25] <corndog_> dougsko, is this mainly used for bootup?
[07:25] <stacy> fyrestrtr: not sure... how do I check?
[07:26] <dougsko> corndog_: yes, but if you crash, you can boot into single user mode and read it. it writes over itself on boot
[07:26] <corndog_> dougsko, ok thanks.. time to go force the crash then
[07:26] <fr500> when i try to install gstreamer-plugins ugly multiverse it says liblame not available, why?
[07:27] <irawan> dear all, I've got xubuntu, what would be the easy app to manage printers?
[07:27] <AWOSDev> If I unplug my PCMCIA wireless card I won't have to reboot to get it working again right?
[07:27] <dougsko> corndog_: read up on how to get into single user mode, i forget how to stop the boot process
[07:27] <irawan> or easy way to manage printers
[07:27] <dougsko> corndog_: then you type something like, boot -s
[07:27] <brendonjt> dougsko: it is there just going to check to see if i can read write to it now
[07:27] <dougsko> brendonjt: cool
[07:28] <AWOSDev> It's a Broadcom Air Force 4318
[07:28] <AWOSDev> with NDISwrapper drivers
[07:28] <brendonjt> dougsko: ok  should there be a folder there  called lost+found ?
[07:28] <dougsko> brendonjt: yeah
[07:28] <dougsko> brendonjt: you can get rid of it
[07:28] <cafuego_> ndiswrapper, who knows?
[07:29] <brendonjt> dougsko: ok  thank you i have learnt something from you today  something to add to my lessons
[07:29] <AWOSDev> That better be sarcasm I hear in your voice, cafuego_ :)
[07:29] <AWOSDev> I guess it's worth a shot, here goes, well, my perfect uptime rating
[07:29] <dougsko> brendonjt: np
[07:30] <castillo> hey, what's up!! i'm new in linux, any good advice?
[07:30] <fr500> castillo: try it!
[07:30] <AWOSDev> Get the "Beginning Ubuntu" book that just came out
[07:30] <castillo> where can i find it?
[07:30] <AWOSDev> At any bookstore :P
[07:31] <brendonjt> dougsko: umm only root has write permission  what  do i need to do to change it to all users
[07:31] <AWOSDev> I personally saw it the other day while browsing the UNIX section in Barnes & Noble Booksellers.
[07:31] <archaios> brendonjt, mount -o uid=xx,gid=xx
[07:31] <AWOSDev> How do I know if Ubuntu detected my new PCMCIA card or not?
[07:31] <castillo> yeah, i know that but the thing is that i live in guatemala
[07:31] <archaios> brendonjt, or specify it in the fourth field of fstab
[07:32] <archaios> brendonjt, there's also umask=xxx
[07:32] <archaios> and mode=xxx
[07:32] <archaios> any of those will help you set the appropriate permissions
[07:32] <AWOSDev> castillo: Try the Internet
[07:32] <archaios> brendonjt, who do you want to have access to this mount?
[07:32] <cafuego_> AWOSDev: `dmesg' is your favourite command.
[07:32] <brendonjt> dougsko: ok  i want to do that at boot up  so in the 4th field  change the 0 to umask=xxx
[07:33] <xasaya> new channel #ubuntu-jp
[07:33] <michelp> directly off topic, but can anyone who speaks german tell me what Biete means?  I swear it's indirectly related to Ubuntu ;)
[07:33] <brendonjt> dougsko: all users  on my system
[07:33] <archaios> brendonjt, ok
[07:34] <castillo> didin't you ment bitte?
[07:34] <archaios> brendonjt, change field 4 from "defaults" to "defaults,mode=777"
[07:34] <archaios> brendonjt, in /etc/fstab
[07:34] <archaios> then save it and reboot
[07:34] <michelp> no, Biete, as in a link on a app i'm trying to translate entitled 'Biete - Suche'
[07:34] <archaios> that will give all users write access, brendonjt
[07:34] <AWOSDev> cafuego_ -- uh, there's nothing in there since boot time
[07:34] <AWOSDev> and then the "eth1 removed"
[07:34] <archaios> actually, brendonjt
[07:34] <archaios> is that ext3?
[07:34] <archaios> if so, forget what I just said
[07:34] <archaios> and do...
[07:35] <cafuego_> AWOSDev: Then I would hazard it didn't redetect the wifi card.
[07:35] <archaios> chmod -R 777 /mnt/hdb
[07:35] <archaios> when /mnt/hdb is mounted
[07:35] <archaios> (as root)
[07:35] <archaios> so,
[07:35] <archaios> sudo chmod -R 777 /mnt/hdb
[07:35] <AWOSDev> No, I removed the WiFi card to insert a PCMCIA modem
[07:35] <AWOSDev> I'm downgrading :P
[07:35] <cafuego_> archaios: 775; Note using groups.
[07:35] <brendonjt> dougsko: so i change it back  to what  it was and type the above then
[07:36] <AWOSDev> Is there something like lspcmcia?
[07:36] <castillo> do you guys know wich antivirus is the best for linux?
[07:36] <AWOSDev> If there's an lspci, lsmod, ...
[07:36] <archaios> cafuego_, he said all users
[07:36] <archaios> 777 is appropriate for all users
[07:36] <AWOSDev> castillo: That's the beauty
[07:36] <AWOSDev> castillo: We don't have viruses! :)
[07:36] <AWOSDev> castillo: Okay, we've had two in 15 years.
[07:36] <AWOSDev> castillo: Still worried?  :P
[07:37] <cafuego_> archaios: Yes, except he's better off not letting 'nobody' access the files and use a specific group.
[07:37] <miked> is there a way to make it so if your using nautilus over ssh/ftp you can chmod files?
[07:37] <castillo> i don't know because i changed switched today from windows to linux
[07:37] <signius> Finally got Evolution to connect to the Exchange Server and it has the most unclear way of connecting that really needs to be addressed
[07:37] <AWOSDev> castillo: I know, I was just saying :)
[07:38] <signius> it requires domain\username for the username not just the username
[07:38] <archaios> cafuego_, I'm just going by what he said... but nobody is not a concern if you're not running any daemons as that uid
[07:38] <castillo> yea
[07:38] <luigi> is safe to update after that bugged one?
[07:38] <luigi> i haven't updated that one yet
[07:38] <cafuego_> archaios: Invariably people are. it's better to keep it more secure.
[07:38] <signius> none if that is explained in the evolution full documentation
[07:38] <brendonjt> dougsko: so will i have to do that command  when i boot up each time?
[07:38] <castillo> that's why i have millions of questions about linux
[07:38] <infidel> anyone install xgl here that can give me a quick hand?
[07:39] <thomas> can anyone tell me why my wireless will get an ip on the network, but won't be able to access anything on it?\
[07:39] <castillo> but aventually they will vanish
[07:39] <AWOSDev> thomas: Same problem here, still don't know why :(
[07:39] <jake1> is anyone aware of a program that is compatable with Microsoft Entourage and Outlook schedules
[07:39] <thomas> argh!
[07:39] <jake1> for Ubuntu
[07:39] <archaios> cafuego_, if I were running a server, I wouldn't be using ubuntu, since it's aimed primarily at end-users...
[07:39] <AWOSDev> jake1: Evolution
[07:40] <AWOSDev> jake1: At least it was last I used it (which was in Novell/SuSE)
[07:40] <cafuego_> archaios: No excuse is good enough for bad security behaviour.
[07:40] <cafuego_> Not even never turning the system on and puring it in concrete.
[07:40] <jake1> AWOSDev: will that sync with schedules from people who use outlook
[07:40] <jake1> or entourage
[07:40] <jake1> if they invite me
[07:40] <AWOSDev> archaios: Um, Ubuntu actually just got the eWEEK Best Linux Server OS award :)
[07:40] <wweasel> Does anyone here know how to make the aMSN menus look nicer? I've read it's possible, but I forget how
[07:40] <AWOSDev> jake1: I believe so, I didn't really get to use it very much
[07:41] <AWOSDev> jake1: I
[07:41] <jake1> supposebly microsoft will be releasing a linux version of their office
[07:41] <AWOSDev> jake1: I'm too busy for a schedule :P
[07:41] <luigi> lol
[07:41] <Lilandra> huh?
[07:41] <AWOSDev> jake1: If that actually happens
[07:41] <fr500> wweasel: hmmm use gaim wweasel
[07:41] <AWOSDev> jake1: I'll will be first in line to buy it :)
[07:41] <XxXBrAnDoNXxX> I DONT LIKE MICROSOFT
[07:41] <XxXBrAnDoNXxX> lol
[07:42] <Lilandra> and how much would they charge us?
[07:42] <wweasel> fr500: When I ask a question for support for one App, and people say "Use this app, I use it" it pisses me off. Know why? Cause it's completely counter-productive. Clearly you don't know how to help me, keep it to yourself.
[07:42] <luigi> is safe to update after that bugged one, i havn't updated since i knew it was bad
[07:42] <stacy> fyrestrtr: Trident Video Accelerator CyberBlade XP Ai1 v59030 008A 22ICDNP
[07:42] <archaios> stacy: eww
[07:42] <archaios> that's a terrible graphics card :P
[07:42] <archaios> I used to have one
[07:42] <stacy> its olk
[07:42] <bluefox83> jake1, why the hell would microsoft release a linux version of MS office when we already have OpenOffice?
[07:42] <archaios> it's very unfriendly on Linux
[07:42] <stacy> old
[07:42] <archaios> runs horrifically slowly
[07:43] <archaios> stacy, yeah I know
[07:43] <luigi> is safe to update after that bugged one, i havn't updated since i knew it was bad
[07:43] <stacy> can i run dapper on it?
[07:43] <archaios> I had one up until a year ago :P
[07:43] <jake1> it's more for outlook than their entire office package
[07:43] <archaios> stacy, sure
[07:43] <corndog_> wweasel, you must also realize this is the second or third time you have come into an OS support channel requesting software support
[07:43] <archaios> stacy, but X (the GUI) doesn't run well on it
[07:43] <stacy> so how do I fix the BSOD?
[07:43] <jake1> outlook is very important to business ppl
[07:43] <archaios> stacy, it runs very slowly
[07:43] <bluefox83> jake1, we don't need outlook, there's evolution...
[07:43] <luigi> is safe to update after that bugged one, i havn't updated since i knew it was bad
[07:43] <archaios> stacy, because it doesn't have hardware accelerated support, even with the trident driver
[07:43] <irawan> found it, I just install gnome-cups-manager for printer management in xubuntu
[07:43] <archaios> stacy, (no OpenGL, no DRI)
[07:43] <corndog_> wweasel, people offer other packages that you might not be aware of and you still get an attitude
[07:44] <rredd4> luigi  you mean for x, yes.. make sure your repo is updated    sudo apt-get update
[07:44] <fr500> wweasel: well sorry man, then, fiddle with qt settings a bit, but it's not much you can do
[07:44] <stacy> archaios: sorry... i don't know what that means
[07:44] <archaios> stacy, I suggest you get a new gfx card if you want to be able to run anything demanding, like anything 3D (OpenGL)
[07:44] <castillo> does anybody know what games are aviable for ubuntu?
[07:44] <luigi> kkkkkk THANK RREDD4
[07:44] <fr500> wweasel: it's like xmms, i never get it to look right
[07:44] <archaios> stacy, it means that the graphics card will run very slowly on Linux
[07:44] <stacy> don't need 3D
[07:44] <stacy> that's ok
[07:44] <rredd4> luigi  you should be downloading  version 10.4
[07:44] <stacy> i just want to be able to run gdm
[07:44] <wweasel> castillo: Check it out under Add and Remove Programs.
[07:44] <archaios> stacy, should work
[07:44] <rredd4> luigi  10.3 was the buggy one
[07:44] <archaios> stacy, it did for me
[07:44] <stacy> i still get the BSOD
[07:45] <castillo> ok, thanks
[07:45] <archaios> stacy, what does the BSOD say exactly
[07:45] <stacy> i tried to upgrade during the buggy thingo
[07:45] <wweasel> fr500: Sorry I snapped at you, I've clearly been awake too long. It is a pet peeve of mine, but you didn't deserve that.
[07:45] <jake1> bluefox83: but can you accept invites from clients or colleagues who use outlook
[07:45] <rredd4> luigi  you can go to the ubuntu web site for help also
[07:45] <jake1> or entourage
[07:45] <fr500> wweasel: np
[07:45] <jake1> i haven't tried it yet
[07:45] <stacy> archaios: just like it shows here: http://www.ubuntu.com/FixForUpgradeIssue
[07:45] <jake1> but i want to see if it works
[07:45] <archaios> jake1: outlook may be important to you
[07:45] <bluefox83> jake1, what kind of invites?
[07:45] <castillo> sorry for asking stupid quiestions but it's my first day as a ubuntu user
[07:45] <archaios> but it's not "very important for business ppl"
[07:45] <jake1> schedule syncing
[07:45] <archaios> most people I know only use outlook as a basic mail client, jake1
[07:46] <archaios> all my business clients included
[07:46] <bluefox83> jake1, possibly..i've never tried it before
[07:46] <jake1> wow......... ur bussiness clients are dumb
[07:46] <archaios> jake1, no they're not...
[07:46] <jake1> i use it to schedule my mettings
[07:46] <archaios> jake1, it's just not necessary -_-
[07:46] <jake1> meetings*
[07:46] <wweasel> fr500: Check this out, this guy has it right: http://www.lnxteam.com.ar/downloads/pub/pics/amsn/Icons/Emerald-Skin_mainWindow.png :P
[07:46] <bluefox83> actually using outlook like that is a bad idea concidering how bad of a security vulnerability it is
[07:46] <jake1> and keep in sync with ppl at work
[07:46] <archaios> jake1, Outlook is highly insecure anyway
[07:47] <archaios> as bluefox83 rightly points out
[07:47] <brendonjt> what is the terminal  command for move?
[07:47] <hitjim> mv
[07:47] <jake1> that's not the point
[07:47] <archaios> jake1, but I doubt Ubuntu supports what you want
[07:47] <hitjim> I got one!
[07:47] <archaios> schedule syncing and such are proprietary Microsoft features
[07:47] <Green_Mage> Hello
[07:47] <stacy> archaios: it does seem to be a video problem... when I go to the login prompt, the bottom 2 inches are always black... i can't see what's happening
[07:47] <archaios> and I don't think there's any open source client for that
[07:47] <hitjim> or to play it safe, you could just use "cp"
[07:47] <archaios> jake1, it may be possible to run Outlook using WINE though
[07:47] <castillo> so, all the programs i need are in add and remove?
[07:47] <jake1> which is probably why microsoft is releasing a linux version
[07:47] <hitjim> and rm the old file, when the new one is in the place you want
[07:48] <Green_Mage> I'm trying to install Ubuntu, but I keep getting a "CD-ROM not detected, please insert driver disk" error
[07:48] <archaios> jake1, wine can run Outlook to do what you want
[07:48] <hitjim> all those were for "brendonjt"
[07:48] <bluefox83> archaios, there's no reason to think you couldn't do that with a simple plugin in evolution...
[07:48] <jake1> archaios i dnt think that my computer can take WINE
[07:48] <archaios> stacy: it's plausible that it does not support your graphics card without a work-around
[07:48] <jake1> cuz it's a 64-bit
[07:48] <fr500> wweasel: let's see
[07:48] <archaios> stacy: I remember that the CyberBlade XP is only supported using the vesa driver
[07:48] <archaios> the Ubuntu setup may not be using it
[07:48] <stacy> anybody know a linux geek in Tucson, AZ who could help me?  I can pay... a bit...
[07:49] <archaios> BlueEagle, the communications protocols are closed and proprietary
[07:49] <archaios> err
[07:49] <archaios> bluefox83 even
[07:49] <archaios> bluefox83, whilst it could be done, I don't think it actually has been done
[07:49] <brendonjt> hitjim:  as i backup some stuff onto my ipod and wanting to move it back,  in X  it tell me i/o error
[07:49] <archaios> bluefox83, few people actually use it
[07:49] <archaios> even among business Outlook users...
[07:49] <thomas> is there a network manager applet for kde?
[07:49] <AWOSDev> stacy, if you want to fly out to Florida after the hurricane I can help :P
[07:49] <bluefox83> archaios, i don't think any business would be foolish enough to actually rely on anything like that..least i hope not..
[07:49] <archaios> bluefox83, I agree
[07:49] <rredd4> stacy  ask your question, maybe we can help you!
[07:49] <AWOSDev> I only charge ~$50 (depending on what's wrong)
[07:50] <archaios> bluefox83, none of my clients (even all those in the IT industry) use that feature
[07:50] <bluefox83> AWOSDev, what part of florida you in?
[07:50] <archaios> bluefox83, it's actually a relic that dates back to Windows for Workgroups 3.11 -- Schedule+
[07:50] <AWOSDev> the South area
[07:50] <archaios> bluefox83, they simply rebranded it and integrated it into Outlook
[07:50] <AWOSDev> like where the hurricane's going :P
[07:50] <hitjim> so you're wanting to move stuff from your ipod to your linux box?
[07:50] <bluefox83> AWOSDev, i live up by Gainesville
[07:50] <AWOSDev> closer to West Palm Beach than Miami
[07:51] <AWOSDev> but I don't disclose actual locations on IRC :)
[07:51] <archaios> jake1, can't take WINE? WINE is a Windows emulator, if you're thinking it's something else
[07:51] <archaios> jake1, but any modern PC can use it
[07:51] <AWOSDev> I'm so confused
[07:51] <archaios> jake1, it requires minimal system resources
[07:51] <HellDragon> ne 1 cn help me i nd a real time lin00kx
[07:51] <dangson> does anyone know where I can download the glib package?
[07:51] <HellDragon> lol just kidding
[07:51] <bluefox83> AWOSDev, heh..just wondering if you weren't an old freind of my family...he used to live in Ocala and would fix my parent's computers back in the dos days
[07:51] <jake1> archaios no.... not if it's a 32-bit build
[07:51] <AWOSDev> No, but I know more about DOS than any decent person ought to :P
[07:51] <bluefox83> HellDragon, you have the same nick as my grilfreind..that's kinda creepy..
[07:52] <HellDragon> lol really ?
[07:52] <archaios> jake1, x64 Linux installations can use 32-bit binaries...
[07:52] <jake1> sometimes
[07:52] <dmsantam> dangson apt-cache search glib| grep ^libglib
[07:52] <bluefox83> AWOSDev, your name wouldn't be Dan would it?
[07:52] <stacy> rredd4: I'm still getting the BSOD even after doing the fix recommended after installing a bad version of Dapper
[07:52] <AWOSDev> No, it's actually Andrew
[07:52] <Lilandra> what about ppc and wine?
[07:52] <jake1> i've heard wine does not work on the amd 64
[07:52] <archaios> jake1, also, wine can be built for 64-bit
[07:52] <archaios> no.
[07:52] <bluefox83> ok..lol
[07:52] <archaios> it does work.
[07:52] <archaios> I assure you!~
[07:52] <dangson> dmsantam, thanks!
[07:52] <archaios> jake1, my AMD64 4000+ certainly runs wine as both a 32-bit and a 64-bit binary
[07:52] <infidel> how come every time i search for something in synaptics i gt no return/
[07:52] <AWOSDev> Does anybody know where I could find PCMCIA anything on Linux?
[07:53] <dmsantam> dangson np
[07:53] <rredd4> stacy    you mean the x bug?
[07:53] <AWOSDev> NOT CardBus, real, raw, PCMCIA from the 1990s.
[07:53] <archaios> rredd4, it's not an X bug in her case
[07:53] <Lilandra> Can I run wine on PPC?
[07:53] <archaios> she's using a highly unsupported graphics card, rredd4
[07:53] <bluefox83> infidel, make sure your sources.list isn't empty...
[07:53] <rredd4> oh
[07:53] <rredd4> i c
[07:53] <rredd4> hmmm
[07:53] <archaios> rredd4, the Trident CyberBlade XP isn't supported by any X installation except as a framebuffer (vesafb) or vesa driver
[07:53] <stacy> rredd4: looks just like it does here: http://www.ubuntu.com/FixForUpgradeIssue
[07:53] <AWOSDev> Please?  I need the modem because of the hurricane.  It's the only way I'll be able to connect (seeing as I have cable)
[07:53] <hitjim> exit
[07:53] <jake1> actually it would require some fussing with in order to get it to work
[07:53] <archaios> stacy: yes, the same message, but a different cause
[07:53] <infidel> bluefox83: i have several repositories checked
[07:54] <archaios> jake1: wine always requires configuration
[07:54] <archaios> jake1: it's not meant to be "easy"
[07:54] <archaios> jake1: it's meant to be functional
[07:54] <meathead> I'll paypal four dollars to anyone who can help me burn one dvd in ubuntu
[07:54] <stacy> can I just go back to Breezy?
[07:54] <AWOSDev> Actually, archaios, I just downloaded the binaries and instantly I got it to work
[07:54] <bluefox83> infidel, what are you looking for?
[07:54] <Green_Mage> How does one go about getting help in here? Is there a line?
[07:54] <meathead> I'd like to note, that ubuntu sucks, and every burning program I've tried gives me strange errors
[07:54] <AWOSDev> meathead -- I can help!
[07:54] <dmsantam> meathead $4? you're gonna have to go to #ubuntu-slave-labor
[07:54] <archaios> AWOSDev, yes, but if you want to optimise it and get it running well
[07:54] <archaios> you really do need to edit wine_config
[07:54] <dmsantam> :P
[07:55] <AWOSDev> archaios: it's called winecfg, super easy
[07:55] <meathead> AWOSDev: you SURE you can help?
[07:55] <archaios> AWOSDev, especially if you're using apps that are heavily reliant on windows-specific features
[07:55] <archaios> such as TAPI
[07:55] <archaios> AWOSDev, I don't like it!
[07:55] <Axe_> meathead: what apps have you tried
[07:55] <AWOSDev> meathead, I can sure give it a shot for $4 :P
[07:55] <bluefox83> meathead, you sure you aren't experiencing ID10T errors?
[07:55] <mkquist_> hey is the update safe now?
[07:55] <stacy> archaios: can I just go back to Breezy?
[07:55] <dmsantam> Green_Mage just ask a good question
[07:55] <infidel> bluefox83: xgl, compiz, plugins, flash
[07:55] <archaios> stacy: have you tried the fix given on the site?
[07:55] <Green_Mage> I'm having trouble installing Ubuntu
[07:55] <dmsantam> mkquist_ what update?
[07:55] <meathead> gnomebaker, the built in ubuntu support, nerolinux
[07:55] <jake1> well archaios show me a link that explains how to do it
[07:55] <stacy> archaios: yes
[07:55] <dmsantam> Green_Mage that's not a question. let alone a good question.
[07:55] <jake1> cuz i've been looking
[07:55] <archaios> stacy: and it didn't work?
[07:55] <Green_Mage> It says there's no CD-ROM drive detected
[07:56] <infidel> bluefox83: i didn't have the unerversal checked though
[07:56] <meathead> bluefox83: positive.
[07:56] <mkquist_> the one that crashed everyones x server last week
[07:56] <stacy> archaios: nope
[07:56] <meathead> bluefox83: I'm no meathead.
[07:56] <Green_Mage> And it asks for a driver disk
[07:56] <Axe_> meathead: I just installed ubuntu last night, I installed gnomebaker, it works fine
[07:56] <bluefox83> infidel, you need to make sure you have the unsupported and restricted boxes checked for all your sources...
[07:56] <archaios> jake1: AWOSDev may be able to help more than I can, I tend to configure such things manually
[07:56] <dfd> hello
[07:56] <meathead> Axe_: good for you. die.
[07:56] <bluefox83> meathead, riiiight
[07:56] <archaios> stacy: try going back to breezy...
[07:56] <Axe_> meathead: Have you considered the fact that the problem might be with your burner and not with ubuntu
[07:56] <archaios> stacy: but I think it's really time to get a new gfx card
[07:56] <archaios> stacy: even an old geforce 2 only costs $20 or so
[07:56] <Axe_> meathead: don't be fag, we are trying to help you here :P
[07:56] <dmsantam> meathead your nickname is a good description of you
[07:56] <Axe_> a
[07:56] <meathead> Axe_: I have, except that it works fine in windows, with every windows program
[07:56] <Lynoure> !language
[07:56] <ubotu> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
[07:57] <meathead> dmsantam: thank you. die
[07:57] <stacy> archaios: it's a laptop... that might be expensive
[07:57] <archaios> meathead: are you using ide-scsi or directly as IDE?
[07:57] <meathead> IDE
[07:57] <archaios> stacy: true
[07:57] <Green_Mage> So my question is: "Why do I get a 'CD-ROM drive not detected' error when I try to install Ubuntu?"
[07:57] <jake1> archaios: every article i am reading are ppl complaining over the fact that they cnt get Wine to work on AMD64
[07:57] <Axe_> meathead: is it a DVD burner too, or just a regular cd burner, and what is the model
[07:57] <jake1> due to the fact that it requires 32-bit libraries
[07:57] <archaios> stacy: I had an AGP card that used that chipset.. it was unusual, because that chipset was mainly used in laptops
[07:57] <AWOSDev> meathead: do you have dvd+rw-tools?
[07:57] <xasaya> new channel #ubuntu-netart
[07:57] <archaios> jake1: that depends on what build you're using
[07:57] <dmsantam> xasaya what is it for
[07:57] <jake1> which do not exist on the 64bit build of Dapper
[07:57] <archaios> jake1: I build from source.
[07:57] <jason> hello.?
[07:57] <archaios> jake1: which is guaranteed to work
[07:57] <meathead> I have dvd+rw-tools installed, newest version, it's an "optowrite" I believe, generic brand..
[07:58] <foo> How can I clear the mailq with postfix?
[07:58] <archaios> meathead: you'll probably need to play with the kernel
[07:58] <archaios> specifically
[07:58] <meathead> burns audio cds fine and reads discs fine, so I know it works
[07:58] <archaios> ide-scsi (SCSI emulation) enabled and disabled
[07:58] <archaios> until you get a working configuration
[07:58] <jason> am i on here or what?
[07:58] <archaios> jason, you are
[07:58] <jason> cool
[07:58] <meathead> archaios: that's why there's money
[07:58] <AWOSDev> meathead: Try dvdrtools
[07:58] <xasaya> dmsantam, there isn't a community of ubutun artist , right?
[07:58] <meathead> archaios: because I don't know how to do that.
[07:59] <jason> so who's in here?
[07:59] <archaios> meathead: heh.. nobody said it's easy to diagnose complicated problems on any OS :P
[07:59] <meathead> AWOSDev: is that CLI?
[07:59] <Green_Mage> :(
[07:59] <archaios> meathead: yes
[07:59] <archaios> dvdrtools is CLI
[07:59] <Madpilot> jason, you and 758 other people :)
[07:59] <archaios> it provides cdrecord/dvdrecord/etc.
[07:59] <jason> good lord
[07:59] <cafuego_> foo: 'postsuper -d all' will trash whatever is in the mail queue. (no undo)
[07:59] <meathead> archaios: that's great. how do I burn an image with dvdrtools?
[08:00] <dfd> [Q]  During the installation process the sound card on my pc worked (I heard the gnome start sound), now that ubuntu is installed on my hd it doesn't work. I read no errors, but I can't hear anything (the volume is not muted). What should I check?
[08:00] <archaios> meathead: cdrecord dev=0,0,0 <path to ISO image file>
[08:00] <meathead> since, after installing dvdrtools, typing "dvdrtools" at CLI doesn't do anything
[08:00] <jason> no , imean anyone from ubuntu forums
[08:00] <AWOSDev> meathead: mkisofs?
[08:00] <archaios> AWOSDev: he said image
[08:00] <cafuego_> foo: 'postsuper -d all deferred' will trash messages that have been loitering
[08:00] <meathead> I used cdrecord to burn a dvd image?
[08:00] <meathead> err
[08:00] <archaios> meathead: you have a pre-existing .iso?
[08:00] <meathead> use*
[08:00] <Madpilot> jason, I imagine lots of ppl here also use the forums...
[08:00] <meathead> yeah
[08:00] <archaios> meathead: ok
[08:00] <meathead> iso, dvd size
[08:00] <archaios> meathead: use cdrecord -vvv dev=0,0,0 <path to ISO>
[08:00] <archaios> from the CLI
[08:00] <archaios> if that fails
[08:00] <archaios> meathead: use cdrecord -vvv dev=/dev/hdx <path to ISO>
[08:01] <AWOSDev> meathead: qdvdauthor?
[08:01] <archaios> where hdx is the name of your DVD-RW device
[08:01] <mkquist_> dfd- http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=205449
[08:01] <AWOSDev> meathead: nevermind
[08:01] <archaios> AWOSDev: I'm trying to get him to use dvdrtools itself! :P
[08:01] <mkquist_> dfd-good place to start
[08:01] <stacy> archaios: how do i specify that I want to go back to an older version?
[08:01] <foo> cafuego_: hm, didn't seem tow ork
[08:01] <dfd> mkquist_, I will read, thank you
[08:01] <AWOSDev> Does anybody here know how the *heck* to get PCMCIA modem working on this laptop?
[08:01] <AWOSDev> I'm getting upset
[08:01] <mkquist_> dfd-g/l
[08:01] <cafuego_> foo: Add a 'sudo'
[08:02] <Green_Mage> Why do I get a "CD-ROM drive not detected" error when I try to install Ubuntu?  What can I do to fix this?
[08:02] <AWOSDev> I've tried *everything* and nothing and nobody seems to say *anything* about PCMCIA modems
[08:02] <jason> throw it out a window
[08:02] <archaios> AWOSDev: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/base/pcmcia-cs
[08:02] <archaios> have you installed that?>
[08:02] <foo> cafuego_: Doing it as root
[08:02] <foo> hm
[08:02] <foo> cafuego_: Any other ways?
[08:02] <zanpakuto> hello if I need to set shell variables or modify PATH where do I put it? .bashrc or .bash_profile?
[08:03] <AWOSDev> archaios: Yes I did
[08:03] <archaios> AWOSDev: did you reboot?
[08:03] <meathead> cdrecord: There are unsettled issues with Linux-2.5 and newer.
[08:03] <meathead> cdrecord: If you have unexpected problems, please try Linux-2.4 or Solaris.
[08:03] <meathead> TOC Type: 1 = CD-ROM
[08:03] <meathead> scsidev: '0,0,0'
[08:03] <meathead> scsibus: 0 target: 0 lun: 0
[08:03] <AWOSDev> archaios: e.g. my WLAN PCMCIA is detected
[08:03] <meathead> cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open '/dev/pg0'. Cannot open SCSI driver.
[08:03] <meathead> yeah, pastebin
[08:03] <archaios> meathead: ok
[08:03] <archaios> meathead: now try
[08:03] <archaios> meathead: use cdrecord -vvv dev=/dev/hdx <path to ISO>
[08:03] <archaios> meathead: I assume you know the name of your DVD-RW device
[08:03] <archaios> hdc or something?
[08:03] <AWOSDev> archaios: No of course I didn't reboot.  Why would I reboot?  I never reboot.
[08:03] <meathead> hdx? i want to burn hdd?
[08:03] <cafuego_> 'postsuper -d  ALL'
[08:03] <archaios> AWOSDev: I take it you're being sarcastic
[08:04] <archaios> AWOSDev: ps axuwww|grep cardmgr
[08:04] <archaios> AWOSDev: see if that's running
[08:04] <AWOSDev> archaios: No, I'm not being sarcastic.
[08:04] <archaios> AWOSDev: oh, well, you need to be running cardmgr
[08:04] <archaios> to detect and initialise PCMCIA devices
[08:04] <AWOSDev> cardmgr[32112] : could not adjust resource: IO ports 0x3e0-0x4ff: Function not implemented
[08:05] <AWOSDev> and a bunch of other stuff just like it appear on the screen
[08:05] <meathead> okay, enough about burning cds
[08:05] <AWOSDev> when I type "sudo cardmgr"
[08:05] <meathead> cause it's not working
[08:05] <archaios> meathead: did you try what I just said?
[08:05] <cafuego_> AWOSDev: Well, don't do that.
[08:05] <meathead> i have two windows xp image files
[08:05] <archaios> specifying the device as /dev/hdx?
[08:05] <meathead> archaios: yeah
[08:05] <archaios> meathead: what was the output then?
[08:05] <meathead> archaios: didn't work
[08:05] <archaios> meathead: output is important...
[08:05] <meathead> archaios: let me make this easier on you.
[08:05] <cafuego_> AWOSDev: Those tools are started via init scripts. (/etc/init.d/pcmciautils)
[08:05] <meathead> archaios: I need to install windows from an image file
[08:06] <meathead> I just got a new job and I need to run photoshop and dreamweaver ASAP
[08:06] <archaios> meathead: I need the output from the 2nd cdrecord command
[08:06] <archaios> namely the error messages
[08:06] <AWOSDev> cafuego_ cardmgr is now running
[08:06] <archaios> AWOSDev, ok
[08:06] <archaios> it should automatically detect your PCMCIA devices
[08:06] <AWOSDev> cafuegp_ thanks!
[08:06] <dfd> mkquist_, I solved the problem, thanks
[08:06] <archaios> AWOSDev, cardmgr can normally be run by itself, but I gather you didn't have the PCMCIA modules loaded
[08:06] <AWOSDev> [4639051.839000]  pcmcia: Detected deprecated PCMCIA ioctl usage.
[08:06] <AWOSDev> [4639051.839000]  pcmcia: This interface will soon be removed from the kernel; please expect breakage unless you upgrade to new tools.
[08:06] <dfd> mkquist_, I had 2 sound cards.. ubuntu did choose the one I don't like as the default one ;-)
[08:06] <archaios> AWOSDev, that's fine
[08:07] <AWOSDev> Oh okay
[08:07] <archaios> AWOSDev, it just means that your kernel is newer than your pcmcia-cs package
[08:07] <AWOSDev> That's the latest message in dmesg
[08:07] <archaios> AWOSDev, your devices should be detected if they're supported...
[08:07] <archaios> AWOSDev, if not
[08:07] <AWOSDev> archaios: Don't say it
[08:07] <archaios> what PCMCIA device do you want?
[08:07] <archaios> err
[08:07] <archaios> are you using, rather
[08:07] <AWOSDev> archaios: A very old modem
[08:07] <archaios> AWOSDev: brand? model?
[08:08] <AWOSDev> archaios: Because during the hurricanes with no electricity I have no cable.
[08:08] <AWOSDev> archaios: I have no clue, not even Windows knows
[08:08] <jake1> WOAH............ that was crazy
[08:08] <AWOSDev> archaios: Just a simple, ordinary, modem
[08:08] <archaios> AWOSDev, shouldn't it be marked on the card?
[08:08] <stacy> archaios: how do i specify that I want to go back to an older version?  Do I need to just edit the repository file?
[08:08] <jake1> i was jst downloading at 14000kbps
[08:08] <meathead> cdrecord: Unspecified command not implemented for this drive.
[08:08] <meathead> cdrecord: Data will not fit on any disk.
[08:08] <meathead> cdrecord: Cannot write more than remaining DVD capacity.
[08:08] <jburd> Where is the default httpd.conf file for Apache 2 on Ubuntu?
[08:08] <AWOSDev> archaios: All it says is "Sky Link Express Data/Fax Modem"
[08:08] <archaios> meathead: seems that your drive is very non-standard
[08:08] <jake1> that's 14MBPS
[08:08] <meathead> which is bullshit by the way, cause I've burned the iso on a dvd in windows ten times.
[08:08] <jburd>  /etc/apache2/httpd.conf is empty...
[08:08] <archaios> AWOSDev: it's supported
[08:08] <archaios> AWOSDev: you just need to load the module
[08:08] <archaios> meathead: it's not bullshit, your drive really is non-standard
[08:09] <AWOSDev> sudo modprobe ...
[08:09] <infidel> bluefox83: thank you for your help
[08:09] <archaios> normal devices will burn using normal ATAPI commands
[08:09] <Green_Mage> 1.4 MBPS
[08:09] <AWOSDev> pcmcia?
[08:09] <archaios> AWOSDev: wait
[08:09] <archaios> finding module name
[08:09] <meathead> I've had this drive for over a year and a half, and not ONCE have I had a single problem with it..
[08:09] <archaios> meathead: on windows
[08:09] <meathead> til I switched to ubuntu
[08:09] <Green_Mage> have to divide by 8
[08:09] <archaios> meathead: Linux uses standard interfaces for burning
[08:09] <bluefox83> infidel, sure thing...no idea how i helped..but no prob :)
[08:09] <meathead> I noticed
[08:09] <archaios> meathead: in case you didn't realise
[08:09] <archaios> meathead: most hardware manufacturers don't provide specs for Linux driver development
[08:10] <archaios> meathead: if your drive is non-standard, it will most likely not be supported
[08:10] <meathead> Linux uses standard interfaces for everything. my extremely popular mouse only get's half the buttons working... after an hour of tweaking
[08:10] <AWOSDev> meathead: Windows does very screwy things to drives -- Linux only supports standards
[08:10] <archaios> meathead: that's not Linux's fault
[08:10] <archaios> that's the hardware manufacturer, meathead
[08:10] <archaios> they're the ones who aren't writing capable Linux drivers
[08:10] <archaios> or supplying specifications
[08:10] <archaios> don't assign blame to the OS -_-
[08:10] <infidel> bluefox83: it was operator head space but thanks for your patience
[08:10] <meathead> can't imagine why.
[08:10] <archaios> AWOSDev: sudo modprobe pcnet_cs
[08:10] <Axe_> Because some companies suck?
[08:11] <Axe_> Generic ones especially
[08:11] <AWOSDev> meathead: Because they have contracts with Microsoft?
[08:11] <mkquist_> so whats to gain by not supplying specs?
[08:11] <mkquist_> like canon?
[08:11] <bluefox83> infidel, no problem
[08:11] <Teh_wrk1n|Dog> what is the minimum requirements to run ubuntu?
[08:11] <mkquist_> oh i saw that..lol
[08:11] <Green_Mage> It prevents corporate espionage, maybe
[08:11] <archaios> meathead: Microsoft has a serious monopoly on HW manufacturers... they get paid to develop devices that only run on Windows
[08:11] <mkquist_> M$
[08:11] <archaios> there's all sorts of anti-competitive measures
[08:11] <archaios> Green_Mage: not really
[08:11] <AWOSDev> Teh_wrk1n|Dog: Well
[08:11] <archaios> Green_Mage: it's more due to a lack of industry expertise in writing Linux drivers, firstly, and secondly, contracts with Microsoft and such
[08:12] <AWOSDev> Teh_wrk1n|Dog: bare minimum, Pentium/166
[08:12] <archaios> Green_Mage: the Windows logo program for hardware devices is almost "lock-in", it has an exclusivity requirement
[08:12] <Green_Mage> Then it's probably only a matter of time before more people start releasing linux drivers
[08:12] <AWOSDev> Teh_wrk1n|Dog: but for usability, prolly a P2/300 with ~128+MB RAM would work
[08:12] <archaios> well
[08:12] <archaios> all my computers have worked out of the box with Linux
[08:12] <archaios> because I buy generic hardware :P
[08:12] <wolfmanz> How do i move e-mail and setting from one thunderbird client to another?
[08:12] <mkquist_> think someone was trying to load onto a p2 300 last nite and no go for them
[08:13] <Green_Mage> How can you buy something like a generic video card or a generic CPU?
[08:13] <mkquist_> think he was short on the ram part tho
[08:13] <Green_Mage> There's only two brands for each of those
[08:13] <AWOSDev> WvDial: cannot open /dev/modem: No such file or directory
[08:13] <archaios> Green_Mage: not CPU/gfx cards
[08:13] <Teh_wrk1n|Dog> Green_Mage: Ok just needed the memory requirements actually thanks
[08:13] <archaios> Green_Mage: but CPUs are guaranteed to be compatible
[08:13] <archaios> Green_Mage: the instruction set, etc. is completely standardised
[08:13] <AWOSDev> Green_Mage: If the CPU isn't compatible I'd *really* LOVE to hear about it :P
[08:13] <archaios> Green_Mage: gfx cards are proprietary, but there is a strong incentive to develop drivers for Linux
[08:13] <archaios> which is why nvidia and ATI provide Linux drivers
[08:13] <Sarra_> While Using firefox for Ubuntu x64, it keeps saying "OMG, you need a PLUGIN that doesn't exist! Click here to be told that it doesn't exist yet!" How do I disable that? Flash doesn't exist fro x64 yet, and that darn message is wasting screen space
[08:13] <Teh_wrk1n|Dog> Green_Mage: My friend tried to install it on a 133mhz wif 64mb ram
[08:14] <Teh_wrk1n|Dog> :/
[08:14] <mkquist_> lol thats funny tho
[08:14] <archaios> Teh_wrk1n|Dog, 133mhz with 64MB RAM?
[08:14] <AWOSDev> Teh_wrk1n|Dog: Try something lighter
[08:14] <archaios> that's unusual
[08:14] <archaios> most 133mhz boxes didn't have over 16MB RAM
[08:14] <AWOSDev> Teh_wrk1n|Dog: like Red Hat 5 or something
[08:14] <Teh_wrk1n|Dog> i said he should should try gentoo
[08:14] <archaios> at the time 133mhz boxes were in vogue
[08:14] <meathead> hmm, so microsoft actuallys pays people to write drivers for their OS so that people don't have to write their own drivers when they get a peice of hardware! obscene
[08:14] <Teh_wrk1n|Dog> :P
[08:14] <archaios> 16MB and 32MB were the norms
[08:14] <birdfish> Okay, now that I have ip masquerading working somewhat, I have another problem.  I can get connected to the internet from my LAN clients, but cannot connect to irc servers from them.
[08:14] <Teh_wrk1n|Dog> it scared the shi outta him
[08:14] <AWOSDev> archaios: I'm personally insulted -- I love my 133MHz box and I can get 128MB into it!
[08:14] <Green_Mage> What about motherboards and northbridges, do those ever cause problems with linux?
[08:14] <archaios> meathead, Microsoft provides monetary incentives for writing drivers for Windows
[08:14] <birdfish> Is there something else that I need to install in order to get this functionality?
[08:14] <archaios> meathead, for Linux, there is no such program
[08:15] <Green_Mage> *above to archaios
[08:15] <archaios> meathead, given that < 2% of the market uses Linux
[08:15] <birdfish> Or is iptables blocking them perhaps?
[08:15] <archaios> manufacturers have no incentive to write Linux drivers, really
[08:15] <archaios> Green_Mage: not particularly
[08:15] <archaios> Green_Mage: some southbridge on-board devices aren't supported, though
[08:15] <birdfish> I can't figure out why I can surf the net and download various applications, but cannot get connect to an irc server
[08:15] <archaios> Green_Mage: very rarely a mainboard will not operate at all with Linux
[08:15] <AWOSDev> birdfish: Sounds like iptables problem
[08:15] <Green_Mage> archaios: like what?
[08:15] <zanpakuto> birdfish, are you manually handcrafting your iptables?
[08:15] <ezu> Hi, am new to linux (from windows) and am trying to understand few thing. I installed java but it asked me to remove xpti.dat from firefox folder. how do I get in as administrator to delete this file?
[08:15] <AWOSDev> birdfish: I recommend fwbuilder
[08:15] <Khamael> are there any gamedesigners or programmers here?
[08:16] <zanpakuto> birdfish, i mean iptable rules
[08:16] <birdfish> Actually, all I really did was install and start dnsmasq and ipmasq
[08:16] <AWOSDev> Khamael: I'm both
[08:16] <mkquist_> ezu-sudo in terminal
[08:16] <archaios> Green_Mage: like temperature/fan speed monitors (too many chipsets to name), like on-board sound, LAN (though these are usually supported these days -- my nforce3 mainboard wasn't until recently), etc.
[08:16] <Khamael> AWOSDev: I`ve got an idea for a game
[08:16] <archaios> Khamael: I'm an experienced programmer
[08:16] <AWOSDev> Khamael: Not that good at game programming yet :)
[08:16] <archaios> but not a game developer
[08:16] <archaios> sorry
[08:16] <ezu> mkquist: sudo???
[08:16] <archaios> 14 years in C and assembly experience
[08:16] <AWOSDev> Khamael: I can write a whole OS but can't even get a game menu screen to work :P
[08:16] <mkquist_> ezu-use the command sudo (for root control) and rm (files)
[08:17] <Green_Mage> archaios: What about CD and DVD drives?
[08:17] <mkquist_> ezu-have u looked in the ubuntu forums?
[08:17] <birdfish> I also edited /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward to enable forwarding
[08:17] <archaios> Green_Mage: almost all are standard ATAPI devices
[08:17] <mkquist_> ezu-lotsa good stuff there
[08:17] <archaios> AWOSDev: OS development is a moot point... writing a non-standard OS is absurd these days
[08:17] <Khamael> AWOSDev and archaios I was thinking about OpenJones. A free clone of "Jones in the fast lane"
[08:17] <AWOSDev> ezu: Yes, sudo.  Super User DO.  e.g. instead of Administrator, on Linux it's called root (or Super User)
[08:17] <Madpilot> ezu, installing java shouldn't require tweaking anything else
[08:17] <brendonjt> Kia Ora all  back
[08:17] <archaios> AWOSDev: when you can use an out of the box kernel
[08:17] <birdfish> zanpakuto or AWOSDev: do either of you know of a good tutorial that I could read through in order to get myself fixed up?
[08:17] <archaios> like Mach, or Linux or any of the BSD derivatives
[08:17] <Madpilot> ubotu, tell ezu about java
[08:17] <archaios> AWOSDev: admittedly writing an OS teaches you a lot about the architecture
[08:17] <archaios> but ultimately
[08:17] <Green_Mage> archaios: I can't figure it out then; I can't get Ubuntu to install since it keeps telling me it can't detect the CD-ROM drive
[08:17] <archaios> it's fairly useless
[08:18] <zanpakuto> birdfish, you might like to try firehol. enable universe at /etc/apt/sources.list, then sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install firehol
[08:18] <archaios> Green_Mage: I've never had such a problem
[08:18] <birdfish> what is firehol?
[08:18] <archaios> AWOSDev: you're better off kernel hacking on Linux or somesuch
[08:18] <Green_Mage> archaios: Who should I ask for help then?
[08:18] <AWOSDev> birdfish: I still recommend firewall builder (fwbuilder)...it's great and my network is working great
[08:18] <brendonjt> Madpilot:  umm what is ubotu  just out of interest
[08:18] <zanpakuto> birdfish, http://firehol.sourceforge.net/
[08:18] <AWOSDev> archaios: Yeah I know but I love OS programming, it's so interesting to learn about what's "inside the box" :)
[08:18] <Madpilot> brendonjt, a bot, and by far the most useful being on this channel ;)
[08:18] <fallingdutch> !initramfs
[08:19] <AWOSDev> archaios: I'm seriously considering helping the WINE project, actually
[08:19] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about initramfs - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[08:19] <Madpilot> ubotu, tell brendonjt about yourself
[08:19] <archaios> AWOSDev: well, I was interested in OS programming when I was first learning asm
[08:19] <zanpakuto> birdfish, there is a very short and intuitive tutorial there.
[08:19] <ezu> okay I'll play with it. I got ubotu. thanks,
[08:19] <archaios> AWOSDev: but after coding a relatively capable console protected-mode OS
[08:19] <AWOSDev> !ubotu
[08:19] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbotuUsage
[08:19] <archaios> I lost interest, to be honest
[08:19] <brendonjt> Madpilot:  thanks  fo that
[08:19] <archaios> AWOSDev: I do professional kernel development for Linux and Windows, though
[08:19] <AWOSDev> archaios: I'm getting there.  Did you open-source your OS?
[08:19] <fallingdutch> how do the initramfs-tools work or where is a documentation of how it works?
[08:19] <AWOSDev> archaios: You developed the Windows kernel?
[08:20] <birdfish> I'll check it out and be back if I have any other questions =)
[08:20] <archaios> I said for
[08:20] <birdfish> Thanks guys!
[08:20] <archaios> kernel development
[08:20] <archaios> device drivers
[08:20] <archaios> kernel-mode security software
[08:20] <archaios> all kinds of stuff
[08:20] <AWOSDev> archaios: Oh, I thought you were once employed by the Evil Empire; glad you weren't :P
[08:20] <archaios> AWOSDev: I've access to the Windows kernel source
[08:21] <fetale> I'm trying to mount mount some of my samba shares but I've been getting errors left and right
[08:21] <AWOSDev> I still don't have a PCMCIA Linux modem
[08:21] <archaios> as part of the shared source program
[08:21] <archaios> but I don't work for them
[08:21] <AWOSDev> archaios: WOW -- that would be SO cool to see inside -- and yet, so empty :)
[08:21] <archaios> AWOSDev, pcnet_cs didn't help?
[08:21] <archaios> it says it supports
[08:21] <archaios> 	Ark Sky Link Express PA2600
[08:21] <AWOSDev> archaios: No, pcnet_cs modprobe'd but it didn
[08:21] <archaios> and
[08:21] <AWOSDev> 't do anything else
[08:21] <archaios> 	Sky Link Express
[08:21] <AWOSDev> No messages, no dmesg, no "Hey you have a modem!", no /dev/modem softlink created, nothing
[08:22] <brendonjt> awosdev:  hmm i have thinking about that  umm not sure where to go now  with that one
[08:22] <AWOSDev> brendonjt: You mean about my modem?
[08:22] <archaios> AWOSDev: I could help you if you had a Lucent PCMCIA winmodem
[08:22] <brendonjt> awosdev:  yip
[08:22] <archaios> AWOSDev: there's support for the sky link express ethernet
[08:22] <AWOSDev> archaios: just pretend it *is* a Lucent :)
[08:22] <archaios> but not for the modem
[08:22] <AWOSDev> No modem?
[08:22] <archaios> AWOSDev: I guess you could write your own driver :P
[08:22] <AWOSDev> *NO MODEM?*
[08:23] <AWOSDev> YOU MEAN that I'm fudged come hurricane time?
[08:23] <AWOSDev> Ooh I'm very upset
[08:23] <AWOSDev> very upset indeed
[08:23] <AWOSDev> I NEED my Internet during the power outage -- and the only way is with a modem
[08:24] <AWOSDev> archaios: I know 0 and nada about the Linux kernel, let alone device drivers
[08:24] <AWOSDev> can I use NDISwrapper for modems too?  I have a Win95 driver for it...
[08:24] <ezu> New user question again: When I am switching b/n user's the program I was running sleeps and I can't use it.  What's the proper way?
[08:24] <Green_Mage> archaios: It appears my motherboard is incompatible with the linux install: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1417783 :(
[08:25] <yacc> AWOSDev: I don't thing that modems have NDIS drivers on Windows?
[08:25] <archaios> AWOSDev: modems don't use NDIS
[08:25] <archaios> AWOSDev: they use a serial-type API
[08:25] <archaios> which is not supported on Linux, sadly
[08:25] <AWOSDev> Well poo.
[08:25] <hamdan> i installed win32 codecs but i cant play movies
[08:25] <AWOSDev> So I'm sunk?
[08:25] <AWOSDev> 100% sunk?
[08:25] <archaios> Green_Mage: well, that sucks
[08:25] <archaios> Green_Mage: I only use AMD mainboards
[08:26] <archaios> AMD processors are better, anyway
[08:26] <AWOSDev> Because I can't get Windows back on here and Linux doesn't support modems?
[08:26] <archaios> and more compatible! :P
[08:26] <AWOSDev> archaios: AMD sucks, every single computer I've had with AMD has died
[08:26] <archaios> AWOSDev: yeah
[08:26] <archaios> AWOSDev: basically
[08:26] <archaios> AWOSDev: err
[08:26] <archaios> no
[08:26] <treitter> is there a new Times font included in Edgy?
[08:26] <archaios> AMD processors were bad in the old days of the Duron
[08:26] <archaios> and before
[08:26] <archaios> but since then
[08:26] <AWOSDev> archaios: I'm not sunk?
[08:26] <hamdan> i installed win32 codecs but i cant play movies
[08:26] <archaios> they've advanced to produce a significantly better processor than Intel
[08:26] <archaios> AWOSDev: no, AMD is now better than Intel
[08:26] <archaios> my old Duron 900 MHz ran extremely hot
[08:26] <AWOSDev> archaios: Yeah I have all K6's
[08:27] <archaios> 120 degrees Celsius in summer
[08:27] <brendonjt> hamdan: have you installed the video codecs
[08:27] <hamdan> yes
[08:27] <AWOSDev> archaios: Never got another AMD after those two K6s died
[08:27] <Green_Mage> The new intel chips are top of the line though
[08:27] <archaios> AWOSDev: Athlons and AMD64 processors are very capable, and much higher performance than Intel at an equivalent clock rate
[08:27] <AWOSDev> hamdan: Do you have xine?
[08:27] <Green_Mage> The core 2 duo stops on anything AMD has out now
[08:27] <archaios> AWOSDev: Durons and before were the bad old days
[08:27] <Green_Mage> *stomps
[08:27] <ezu> Why do programs disapear when I switch user's ??
[08:27] <archaios> Green_Mage: far from it
[08:27] <hamdan> awisdev yes
[08:27] <AWOSDev> archaios: I just need to get the stupid modem working
[08:27] <Jobberwacky> Intels are probably still not as hot as AMDs though
[08:27] <archaios> Green_Mage: for a start, dual core processors proffer minimal advantage for most applications
[08:27] <AWOSDev> archaios: Is there *ANYTHING* ELSE I can do?
[08:28] <archaios> Green_Mage: since they require apps to be designed with SMP in mind
[08:28] <archaios> second,
[08:28] <Jobberwacky> AWOSDev, you could get another modem
[08:28] <AWOSDev> hamdan: Is there an error?
[08:28] <archaios> Intel focusses on clock rate in its designs
[08:28] <Green_Mage> It's not the dual core nature that I brag about, it's the raw speed of the chip
[08:28] <archaios> compromising cycle efficiency
[08:28] <AWOSDev> Jobberwacky: With a hurricane 18 hours away?
[08:28] <archaios> Green_Mage: that's absolute crap
[08:28] <Green_Mage> Intel changed its design with the core 2 duo
[08:28] <eric__> hello all
[08:28] <archaios> Green_Mage: Intels have much higher clock rates
[08:28] <archaios> yes, including the core 2 duo
[08:28] <Green_Mage> They emphasize feature sets over clock rates
[08:28] <archaios> but their cycle efficiency is much lower, Green_Mage
[08:28] <archaios> Green_Mage, yes, including your "new" processor
[08:29] <Green_Mage> Then how are they beating out higher clocked AMD chips?
[08:29] <AWOSDev> I suppose I could look and see if Office Depot is open tomorrow -- what kind of modem is compatible with Linux?  Would it say on the box?
[08:29] <archaios> Green_Mage, they're only "beating them" in SMP-capable apps
[08:29] <AWOSDev> Green_Mage -- run a benchmark and then tell us who's better :)
[08:29] <archaios> Green_Mage, most apps, believe it or not
[08:29] <hamdan> awosdev totem could not play "     "  you dont have a decoder installed to handle ...
[08:29] <Jobberwacky> AWOSDev, if you're talking about dialup, an external serial modem
[08:29] <archaios> lack SMP capability
[08:29] <archaios> AWOSDev: benchmarks aren't good tests
[08:29] <Green_Mage> I'm talking about real world preformance here
[08:29] <Green_Mage> Games and Programs
[08:30] <archaios> AWOSDev: for example, since it's a dual core processor, the "added performance" relies on SMP
[08:30] <AWOSDev> Jobberwacky: I have a Parallel Port US Robotics modem, would that work?
[08:30] <Mitrovarr> Does anyone know a fast way to restore the default top/bottom menu bars?
[08:30] <archaios> Green_Mage: that's absolute rubbish
[08:30] <Green_Mage> The core 2 duo gets higher FPS ratings in all major PC Games out on the market
[08:30] <archaios> Green_Mage: AMD performance at equivalent clock rates is almost 150% faster
[08:30] <Jobberwacky> AWOSDev, I'm not sure but you could try it
[08:30] <brendonjt> awosdev:  yip
[08:30] <archaios> Green_Mage: FPS has nothing to do with the processor
[08:30] <archaios> and most to do with the graphics coprocessor on the damn graphics card
[08:30] <hamdan> AWOSDev totem could not play "     "  you dont have a decoder installed to handle ...
[08:30] <AWOSDev> I just don't have the parallel cords, I lost them in one of my moves :(
[08:30] <brendonjt> awosdev:  i had one of them  and it worked straight out of the box
[08:30] <archaios> Green_Mage: it's absurd to claim that your processor is responsible for the higher FPS
[08:30] <archaios> I guarantee that it is nbot
[08:30] <Green_Mage> When the only difference between the two setups is the motherboard and processor, then the CPU has all the difference
[08:30] <AWOSDev> I guess *those* wouldn't be too expensive
[08:30] <archaios> -b
[08:31] <archaios> Green_Mage, not at all
[08:31] <archaios> Green_Mage, the motherboard has the primary influence in that case
[08:31] <brendonjt> awosdev:  bugga ae
[08:31] <Nitrobass24> anyone know how to network windows with a linux server?
[08:31] <AWOSDev> brendonjt: bugga ae?  what's a bugga ae?
[08:31] <hamdan> how i can reinstall the kernal ?
[08:31] <AWOSDev> Nitrobass24: Samba
[08:31] <crparr> What is the best way to setup postfix with spamassassin and clamav?
[08:31] <Green_Mage> You're telling me that a motherboard would have more of a difference than the CPU, how is that possible?
[08:31] <Nitrobass24> yea i am using that
[08:31] <AWOSDev> hamdan, you don't need to
[08:31] <archaios> Green_Mage, in terms of CPU speed and efficiency, AMD has won over Intel for years... and still is.
[08:31] <Green_Mage> Maybe if you used a cheap mobo
[08:31] <archaios> Green_Mage, how?
[08:31] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  Are you trying to say that you could take an identical setup with identical motherboards, compare the lowest processor it can handle to the best one, and get the same FPS?  That's insane.
[08:31] <AWOSDev> Nitrobass24 have you consulted the Wiki?
[08:32] <archaios> Green_Mage, because the f'ing bus speed is the primary determinant
[08:32] <Nitrobass24> when i browse in windows and try to connect to my linux server it ask me for a username and password
[08:32] <archaios> Mitrovarr: no
[08:32] <archaios> Mitrovarr: but I'm saying
[08:32] <Green_Mage> If you use a Intel and an AMD mobo that are relatively similar, then how can it matter?
[08:32] <Nitrobass24> no
[08:32] <archaios> when it comes to high end processors
[08:32] <hamdan> AWOSDev there are errors in kernel
[08:32] <AWOSDev> Nitrobass24
[08:32] <loopyzort> i've read a few threads that firestarter (firewall) is just an interface to iptables/default firewalling
[08:32] <loopyzort> is that true?
[08:32] <archaios> the graphics coprocessor has the primary influence
[08:32] <AWOSDev> !wiki > Nitrobass24
[08:32] <Green_Mage> The new AMD boards have a FSB that's just as fast, or faster than the intel boards
[08:32] <archaios> Green_Mage: there is a very major confounding factor
[08:32] <AWOSDev> hamdan -- what makes you say that?
[08:32] <archaios> Green_Mage: the northbridge.
[08:32] <archaios> Green_Mage: and I'm sorry, all the benchmarks right now contradict your claim
[08:32] <Green_Mage> What benchmarks are you using?
[08:32] <eric__> can someone help me out with setting up synaptic package manager?
[08:33] <archaios> Green_Mage, I'm using CPU instruction set benchmarks
[08:33] <AWOSDev> Does Office Depot or something sell parallel cables like I would need?
[08:33] <archaios> Green_Mage, that actually test processor speed and cycle efficiency
[08:33] <AWOSDev> sorry dumb question nevermind my last
[08:33] <archaios> and right now
[08:33] <hamdan> AWOSDev because i see errors in kernal in boot
[08:33] <archaios> Intel is only close to AMD
[08:33] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  That is partly but not entirely right.  What matters is the constraining factor; generally CPU requirements for a given game don't vary much by detail settings, but graphics card requirements vary a ton.  So, with an insufficient CPU, it will be slow all the time.  An insufficient graphics card will be slow in good detail settings but fast in low ones.
[08:33] <Green_Mage> archaios: http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/08/02/thg_tuning_test/
[08:33] <AWOSDev> eric__ It should already be installed, under System->Tools->Synaptic or something like that
[08:33] <archaios> Mitrovarr: erm. we're talking about similar speeds
[08:33] <AWOSDev> hamdan, what errors?
[08:33] <archaios> Mitrovarr: the difference between processors is minimal
[08:33] <Green_Mage> archaios: http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/14/core2_duo_knocks_out_athlon_64/
[08:34] <archaios> Green_Mage: it's also spurious to compare them
[08:34] <hamdan> i dont know :)
[08:34] <archaios> Green_Mage: because the Athlon 64 isn't dual-core
[08:34] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  Ah, you were making some rather blanket statements that concealed that factor.
[08:34] <eric__> AWOSDev - I thought so too.. but it won't load even when i gave it my root pw
[08:34] <Jobberwacky> but again don't intels run cooler?
[08:34] <Green_Mage> So? It's all AMD has on the market right now
[08:34] <AWOSDev> hamdan, I'm gonna need the errors, or else I can't help you further
[08:34] <hamdan> AWOSDev i dont know
[08:34] <archaios> Green_Mage: compare Intel's single-core offering to AMD processors
[08:34] <archaios> Green_Mage: and I'm sorry
[08:34] <archaios> Intel is utterly useless
[08:34] <archaios> Green_Mage: as soon as AMD's newest line of processors is released
[08:34] <AWOSDev> I still like Intel better but I guess I should give AMD a shot on my next major computer purchase, yes?
[08:34] <Green_Mage> That's not planned for another 6 months or more
[08:34] <archaios> Intel will completely lose the perceived advantage
[08:34] <AWOSDev> ^ to archaios up there
[08:35] <Green_Mage> And who knows what intel will have out by then
[08:35] <archaios> Green_Mage, put it this way
[08:35] <archaios> AMD are the ones who are calling the shots now
[08:35] <Mitrovarr> archaiosA:  What on Earth are you talking about?  Core 2 Duo absolutely walks all over AMD's best offerings.  The X2 gets DESTROYED.  It's not even close.
[08:35] <archaios> Intel is not the market leader anymore
[08:35] <AWOSDev> archaios: Should I give AMD a shot on my next major computer purchase?
[08:35] <Green_Mage> Intel still controls over 70% of the market share
[08:35] <archaios> Mitrovarr: "destroyed"? absolute rubbish
[08:35] <Green_Mage> How could you say it's not the leader?
[08:35] <archaios> Green_Mage: market control, perhaps
[08:35] <Green_Mage> That's absurd
[08:35] <archaios> but in terms of technical prowess
[08:35] <AWOSDev> archaios: And if it doesn't work can I blame you?  :)
[08:35] <archaios> AMD is the market leader
[08:35] <brendonjt> awosdev:  you  cant find ya cable
[08:35] <eric__> AWOSDev --- I thought so too.. but it won't load even when i gave it my root pw
[08:35] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  Seriously, check the benchmarks.  The Core 2 Duo beats the X2 all across the board often by 20% or more.
[08:36] <AWOSDev> brendonjt: Yeah no fun is it
[08:36] <archaios> Green_Mage: there are several very significant developments to back my claim
[08:36] <AWOSDev> eric__ No errors?
[08:36] <hamdan> any one know about speedstream 4060 ??
[08:36] <archaios> Mitrovarr: the apps in question are compiled with Intel-specific optimisations
[08:36] <archaios> Mitrovarr: so, it's spurious
[08:36] <Green_Mage> Have you actually researched this at all, archaios?
[08:36] <AWOSDev> eric__ I would say on that note just use command-line-based aptitude
[08:36] <archaios> Green_Mage: I'm sorry
[08:36] <archaios> Green_Mage: you are foolish
[08:36] <brendonjt> awosdev:  pitty u can't use a genric driver
[08:36] <archaios> Green_Mage: AMD set the 64-bit standard
[08:36] <Green_Mage> It's pretty much a well accepted fact that core 2 is a better chip
[08:36] <archaios> they designed the x86-64 instruction set
[08:36] <Green_Mage> That's true, but what does that matter?
[08:36] <AWOSDev> eric__ aptitude is basically Synaptic but on the command line
[08:36] <archaios> Green_Mage, it matters because they turned the tide
[08:36] <archaios> and they're now setting the standards
[08:36] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  Every single benchmark and game is optimized for Intel?  That would make it the smarter choice anyway.
[08:36] <Green_Mage> What tide?
[08:36] <archaios> Mitrovarr, most of them are
[08:37] <Green_Mage> Who cares about who's setting the standards?
[08:37] <archaios> the Microsoft compilers are optimised for Intel
[08:37] <Green_Mage> I only care about who has the better product
[08:37] <archaios> if you do tests on Linux, Mitrovarr
[08:37] <Green_Mage> Screw brand loyalty
[08:37] <AWOSDev> Mitrovarr - the only thing I see that Intel is innovating is Centrino
[08:37] <archaios> you'll find the opposite to be the case
[08:37] <Green_Mage> I want who ever treats me best
[08:37] <damnhil> archaios: How did you know?
[08:37] <archaios> damnhil, how did I know what?
[08:37] <AWOSDev> I guess I'll go dig up my old parallel modem
[08:38] <Jobberwacky> so a large number of optimized games for amd are on the horizon?
[08:38] <archaios> Mitrovarr, essentially the entire Windows environment is optimised for Intel processors due to industry partnership with Intel and the MS compiler development group
[08:38] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  Well, I can't exactly do tests since I haven't got the stuff, but I'll keep that in mind and see if I see anything.  I know the Core 2 Duo is considered innovative across the board though, it's got lower power usage too, and it uses a smaller process.
[08:38] <Green_Mage> archaios: So you're telling us that Intel has a conspiracy with Microsoft to knock AMD out of the market?
[08:38] <Green_Mage> AND with the entire PC hardware review market, to boot
[08:38] <archaios> Green_Mage, conspiracy, no
[08:38] <archaios> Green_Mage, Intel has a partnership agreement with Microsoft
[08:38] <hamdan> how i can install deb pkg  ?
[08:38] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  Hmm.... I don't know about that, that would give AMD a commanding lead on Linux and I haven't heard about that.
[08:38] <archaios> as virtually everyone knows
[08:39] <archaios> Mitrovarr: ...Windows leads the market in the case of hardware
[08:39] <archaios> Mitrovarr: consumer buying is influenced almost exclusively by the agitprop developed on Windows
[08:39] <damnhil> archaios: how did you know the Microsoft compiler is optimized for Intel x86?
[08:39] <AWOSDev> Ah bug -- I can't find the stupid thing
[08:40] <archaios> damnhil, please... this is a well known fact! Intel works closely with the MS compiler development group, this association has been around for decades
[08:40] <archaios> damnhil, there's references to it everywhere
[08:40] <damnhil> archaios: Windows leads the market of hardware? what does it mean?
[08:40] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  I know that but I was under the impression that Linux benchmarks didn't favor AMD (any more or less than Windows ones, anyway)
[08:40] <hamdan> how i can install deb pkg  by terminal ?
[08:40] <Jobberwacky> I haven't had terrible experiences with either Intel or AMD
[08:40] <AWOSDev> hamdan -- dpkg -i nameofpackage.deb
[08:40] <archaios> there was an article on it in a backissue of DDJ
[08:40] <Mitrovarr> Anyways, does anyone know how to restore the upper and lower menu bars if they crash out or otherwise are lost?
[08:40] <hamdan> AWOSDev thanks
[08:40] <damnhil> hamdan: dpkg -i Package_Name.deb
[08:41] <eric__> AWOSDev --- thanks I'll look into apt
[08:41] <Mitrovarr> I know how to recreate them from scratch, but it's annoying.  Is there some simple way to restore to defaults?
[08:41] <archaios> Mitrovarr: Linux benchmarks more impartial, insofar as if it is compiled with AMD-specific optimisations, Intel processors also perform poorly
[08:41] <AWOSDev> hamdan no provlem
[08:41] <AWOSDev> eric__ no problem
[08:41] <archaios> Mitrovarr: basically, the compiler has a very strong influence on benchmarks
[08:41] <RivercityOperato> hi, what linux kernel version does Dapper Drake use?
[08:41] <AWOSDev> 2.6.15-23-386
[08:41] <archaios> Mitrovarr: the number of ways to bias a benchmark is insane
[08:41] <AWOSDev> RivercityOperato it uses 2.6.15-23-386
[08:42] <archaios> Mitrovarr: according to Microsoft, IIS is more efficient than Apache
[08:42] <archaios> Mitrovarr: in actual testing, this is highly dependent on the Linux configuration
[08:42] <AWOSDev> RivercityOperato -- to be more specific - I'm running Linux Lappy 2.6.15-23-386 #1 PREEMPT Tue May 23 13:49:40 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
[08:42] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  Well, those benchmarks are in some cases real-world configurations
[08:42] <chris_> anyone familiar with the install process for xgl?
[08:42] <archaios> Mitrovarr: real-world or not, they're still biased
[08:43] <damnhil> chris_: what';s xgl?
[08:43] <AWOSDev> chris_ -- um, sudo apt-get install xgl?  I don't know
[08:43] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  Like a game benchmark.  It's the game running in a real-world (or at least emulated) situation.  If Intel beats AMD there, then it'll beat it in a real game, which is good enough for users.
[08:43] <archaios> in the infamous words of Benjamin Disraeli
[08:43] <archaios> there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
[08:43] <chris_> AWOSDev: lol way more complex
[08:43] <RivercityOperato> with that kernel version, is Ubuntu subject to the vulnerability in the linux kernel found the 23rd of this month?
[08:43] <Guest666> why apt-get install rar can't find rar package ?
[08:44] <Mitrovarr> archaios: yeah, well, unless you have another way of judging processors besides Benchmarks, Getting a Doctorate in Computer Engineering, and Listening to You, I'd like to hear it.
[08:44] <archaios> Mitrovarr: good enough for users? perhaps, but it's still not representative of the processor's true performance when apps are optimised for it
[08:44] <Hellevater> can someone tell me the default installation directory for gaim?
[08:44] <archaios> Mitrovarr: processor-specific optimisation heavily influences the results
[08:44] <archaios> Mitrovarr: mainstream benchmarks simply cannot be trusted, because they are far too simplistic
[08:44] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  So what is?  No one but a computer engineer could judge a processor on it's technical merits, so what is anyone supposed to use but benchmarks?
[08:45] <archaios> Mitrovarr: put it this way
[08:45] <archaios> the Pentium III was faster than the Pentium IV in most benchmarks initially
[08:45] <Jobberwacky> they should use their perception maybe?
[08:45] <archaios> because the floating-point support required specific optimisations to run at capacity
[08:45] <RivercityOperato> AWOSDev, have you seen this? http://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2006-3745
[08:45] <Guest666> What repostory have rar package ?
[08:46] <Healot> multiverse for unrar
[08:46] <archaios> Intel works closely with the MS compiler development group -- AMD does not -- meaning that any optimisations to the industry standard compilers are aimed at Intel processors!
[08:46] <Mitrovarr> Jobberwacky:  You'd have a hard time finding something less accurate than analysis via simple perception
[08:46] <archaios> this is an absurd situation
[08:46] <Healot> universe for unrar-free
[08:46] <archaios> it means that benchmarking non-Intel processors against Windows is completely and utterly biased
[08:46] <Jobberwacky> Mitrovarr, true, but if we speak of users, isn't that all that matters?
[08:46] <MZM> how to check wich src pkg versions I can build?
[08:47] <damned[office] > can anybody tell which packet|program allows flashplugin to play sound?
[08:47] <archaios> Mitrovarr: do you not see my point? benchmarks are extremely subjective
[08:47] <hamdan> where i can but win32 codecs fortotem
[08:47] <Jobberwacky> They're both darned fast, and the AMD/Intel rivalry gives better products
[08:47] <hamdan> fot totem
[08:47] <Mitrovarr> Jobberwacky:  well, I can't 'percieve' differences until I own both processors, so it's useless in that regard anyway.  And no, not really, since subtle differences are hard to see but those differences might matter a lot up the road.
[08:47] <hamdan> for totem
[08:47] <RivercityOperato> I got them recently using automatix, hamdan
[08:47] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  I understand, but you didn't propose an alternative.
[08:47] <AWOSDev> RivercityOperato -- no I hadn't and yes Dapper is vulnerable
[08:48] <Jobberwacky> Mitrovarr, there's no way to prove which is better if you're going to consider that many layers
[08:48] <treitter> has anyone else run into non-antialiased fonts in Edgy?
[08:48] <treitter> it looks like Times New Roman on Windows, and it's driving me crazy
[08:48] <archaios> Mitrovarr: indeed I have not, but it's pure propaganda to claim that Intel is faster than AMD or vice-versa without using benchmarks each optimised for their host system's processors
[08:48] <archaios> and even in that case
[08:48] <Mitrovarr> Jobberwacky:  I know, which is why I favor real-world tests.  If I see a test that shows that X proccy is better than Y proccy at playing Unreal Tournament and I'm buying it to play UT, then I know X is probably better.  Good enough.
[08:48] <archaios> they're not comparable
[08:48] <Madpilot> treitter, #ubuntu+1 for Edgy issues, please
[08:49] <Jobberwacky> What will all the subtle differences mean to the user anyways? a split second difference in the actions stopping?
[08:49] <archaios> you simply cannot feasibly compare the performance of two processors
[08:49] <treitter> Madpilot: thanks!
[08:49] <archaios> because subtle differences can heavily impact results on different apps
[08:49] <Jobberwacky> yeah, that's true, so it's a good idea to just get what you think will run for what you use
[08:49] <archaios> i.e. AMD processors are much faster at floating-point math, and thus, for scientific applications, are significantly better
[08:49] <archaios> while Intel processors are faster at string processing
[08:49] <Healot> aren't AMD CPU contains Intel CPU instructions?
[08:49] <Mitrovarr> Jobberwacky:  Well, the differences in performance between the new intels and AMDs is not subtle.  The intels beat the AMDs (if you trust the benchmarks) by something like 5%-50%.  If you get the 50%, it matters.
[08:49] <archaios> there's all sorts of so-called "minor" differences
[08:49] <archaios> Healot, yes
[08:49] <archaios> Healot, but that isn't the point
[08:49] <AWOSDev> Would this work with Linux?
[08:49] <Healot> like sse/sse2/sse3
[08:49] <AWOSDev> http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=450232&N=200135&An=browse
[08:50] <archaios> Healot, the CPU microcode used to implement the instruction set varies considerably
[08:50] <archaios> as a result
[08:50] <archaios> the performance is highly variable
[08:50] <Jobberwacky> I'd have to see it to believe it, I've seen a lot of bollocks benchmarks by people who don't know what they were talking about
[08:50] <archaios> and extremely dependent on the choice of compiler, OS, and benchmark
[08:50] <Healot> well, i know AMD didn't implement all the Intel microcode
[08:50] <archaios> [16:49.51]  <Mitrovarr> Jobberwacky:  Well, the differences in performance between the new intels and AMDs is not subtle.  The intels beat the AMDs (if you trust the benchmarks) by something like 5%-50%.  If you get the 50%, it matters. < that's the case only for the specific software setup they employed
[08:50] <archaios> if you're using a different setup
[08:50] <archaios> the reverse may be true
[08:51] <Jobberwacky> yeah, what he said
[08:51] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  No doubt, but it could also be true that it wouldn't be. They might actually be better.
[08:51] <archaios> it is absurd to claim "AMD is faster than Intel" or vice-versa, because it's so dependent on random variables, the choice of application, the OS, the mainboard
[08:51] <iter> archaios: got any benchmarks to back that up?
[08:51] <archaios> and all sorts of confounding factors
[08:51] <iter> cause I've seen a few the other way
[08:51] <archaios> iter: I hope you're being ironic
[08:51] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  Well, I favor tests that run as close to what you want to do as possible.
[08:51] <archaios> iter: benchmarks are meaningless except in reference to the original system and applications you're benchmarking with
[08:51] <AWOSDev> I'm sorry -- I *HATE* repeating questions -- but -- would http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=450232&N=200135&An=browse work with Dapper Drake?
[08:52] <iter> nah I'm just buying cooler chips now
[08:52] <iter> server room is too fsckin hot
[08:52] <Jobberwacky> me too, I will choose the cooler chip
[08:52] <iter> so 5150s please
[08:52] <archaios> iter: my Duron 900 MHz processor used to ran at 120 degrees Celsius in summer
[08:52] <RivercityOperato> AWOSDev, that link didn't bring anything up
[08:52] <archaios> iter: enough to melt plastic
[08:52] <Jobberwacky> the heat is getting ridiculous with these things
[08:52] <iter> archaios: no thanks ouch
[08:52] <archaios> Jobberwacky: nothing compared to what I endured
[08:52] <archaios> nothing
[08:52] <archaios> Jobberwacky: the case of my old PC got too hot to touch
[08:52] <iter> be having hdds die right and left
[08:52] <cowo-fresh-bdg> zfdhDhfsh
[08:52] <cowo-fresh-bdg> gsngn
[08:52] <AWOSDev> My 500MHz runs at 52 degrees celcius
[08:53] <cowo-fresh-bdg> fdgh ng
[08:53] <cowo-fresh-bdg> gasg
[08:53] <cowo-fresh-bdg> dafg
[08:53] <cowo-fresh-bdg> dag
[08:53] <iter> haha
[08:53] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  And it's not always absurd to make such a claim.  Imagine comparing a new Core 2 Duo to something like, a old Athlon 900.  Surely at some point, you can claim one is better all confounding factors aside.
[08:53] <cowo-fresh-bdg> fgb
[08:53] <cowo-fresh-bdg> d
[08:53] <cowo-fresh-bdg> hg
[08:53] <cowo-fresh-bdg> db
[08:53] <cowo-fresh-bdg> fdh
[08:53] <archaios> iter: actually, it was surprisingly resilient
[08:53] <cowo-fresh-bdg> f
[08:53] <archaios> iter: my hardware never died
[08:53] <AWOSDev> My 1.6GHz runs at 90+ degrees Celsius
[08:53] <Jobberwacky> archaios, well that's a big selling point
[08:53] <AWOSDev> both Intel Celeron
[08:53] <archaios> Mitrovarr: to some degree... but you can't sit there and make claims if the processors are sufficiently similar
[08:53] <Jobberwacky> and dynamic cpu fans, oh boy, those are from hell
[08:53] <AWOSDev>  Ativa 56K V.92 External RS232/Serial Modem
[08:53] <AWOSDev> ^ that's the modem
[08:54] <Jobberwacky> chea fans* that is, noisy things
[08:54] <archaios> Mitrovarr: in fact, I know of several benchmarks showing that the newer AMD processors beat the Duo
[08:54] <archaios> Mitrovarr: so, ultimately
[08:54] <Mitrovarr> archaios:  Well, I'll look into linux performance.  If both OSs mirror each other, I think the claim is sufficiently valid (if not 'intrinsically' for most users)
[08:54] <archaios> it depends on the confounding factors
[08:54] <iter> archaios: where are the benchmarks
[08:54] <RivercityOperato> yeah, AWOS, I don't know if I fsked up or my browser did when I first clicked on it.  but second time I clicked the link it came up right
[08:54] <Mitrovarr> anyways, I'm off guys.  Laters!
[08:54] <Madpilot> Jobberwacky, archaios & others - please take the processor chat to #ubuntu-offtopic, it's not really a tech support issue - thanks...
[08:55] <AWOSDev> fsck -- that's just so funny -- it's supposed to be File System ChecK but it can be used for other things :)
[08:55] <iter> anyone here use synergy
[08:55] <AWOSDev> But please remember
[08:55] <AWOSDev> !language
[08:55] <ubotu> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
[08:55] <iter> my clipboard is flakey
[08:55] <AWOSDev> iter: I use Klipper
[08:55] <Healot> oh bugger
[08:55] <Jobberwacky> yeah, I should unplug anyways, have a nice day or night
[08:55] <AWOSDev> RivercityOperato -- well will it work?
[08:55] <sishgupta> hey, does WoW work in wine with the cvs versions of mesa?
[08:56] <AWOSDev> Jobberywacky -- bye!
[08:56] <RivercityOperato> hmmmm, with NDISWrapper it might
[08:56] <AWOSDev> NDISwrapper for modems?
[08:56] <Krinns> hai whan am going to set my printer on kubuntu
[08:56] <archaios> iter: the benchmarks are around... I performed many of my own, but as I've said repeatedly, there are so many confounding factors you cannot clearly say one processor is superior to another
[08:56] <archaios> anyway
[08:56] <archaios> end of discussion
[08:56] <RivercityOperato> just a guess
[08:56] <AWOSDev> I thought NDISwrapper was for NICs
[08:56] <Krinns> i go to administraotr mode it gives me errro
[08:56] <RivercityOperato> yeah probably
[08:56] <iter> AWOSDev: klipper can be used to sync clipboard between computers?
[08:56] <fabi> Hi all what program do I need to run windows program in linux
[08:56] <Krinns> su returned with an error
[08:56] <Krinns> what does it mean
[08:56] <Healot> WINE, fabi
[08:56] <iter> Krinns: sudo -s
[08:56] <AWOSDev> iter: No, Klipper doesn't do that -- sorry I misunderstood you
[08:56] <Healot> !wine
[08:56] <ubotu> wine is a compatibility layer for running windows programs on GNU/Linux. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wine for more information.
[08:56] <Krinns> how
[08:57] <Krinns> am using GUI
[08:57] <fabi> healot, where do I get it?
[08:57] <AWOSDev> AFK?
[08:57] <Healot> !info wine
[08:57] <Krinns> i just press administrator mode
[08:57] <ubotu> wine: Microsoft Windows Compatibility Layer (Binary Emulator and Library). In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.9-0ubuntu2 (dapper), package size 8578 kB, installed size 40460 kB
[08:57] <RivercityOperato> does Ativa have a useful website, AWOSDev?
[08:57] <Krinns> ideally is should ask for root password
[08:57] <Healot> install it, fabi, from the repos
[08:57] <AWOSDev> RivercityOperato -- they are made by Office Depot themselves, so I don't think so :(
[08:57] <Healot> Krinns: your password is needed instead
[08:57] <AWOSDev> RivercityOperato -- that's the only result on Office Depot's website for Modems and not Cable modems
[08:58] <RivercityOperato> ok.  gotta go
[08:58] <fabi> am new user. thanks I'll try it. later,
[08:58] <AWOSDev> RivercityOperato -- I personally know nothing about them, I'm gonna have to purchase the $50 thing
[08:58] <AWOSDev> Ah dang he's gone
[08:58] <AWOSDev> archaios, could you tell me if this modem would work?
[08:58] <AWOSDev> http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=450232&N=200135&An=browse
[08:58] <sishgupta> can anyone help me revert to the mesa packages in the offical ubuntu repository? when i try to force to the version in synaptic it forces me to uninstall packages like ubuntu-desktop.
[08:59] <Green_Mage> archaios: If I disable legacy USB support to install Ubuntu, will I be able to use legacy USB in the OS? Or will I get an error when I try to boot it?
[09:00] <dong520> who can speak chinaese
[09:00] <AWOSDev> Holy moly!  $104.98 for an external modem?
[09:00] <Healot> wo bu xing, dong520
[09:00] <Healot> !zh
[09:00] <ubotu> For Ubuntu help in Chinese  #ubuntu-cn  #ubuntu-tw   #ubuntu-hk
[09:00] <dong520> who come for china
[09:00] <hamdan> tar xzf  command run only with tar.gz ?
[09:00] <AWOSDev> gzip -d whatever.tar.gz
[09:01] <AWOSDev> tar xf whatever.tar
[09:01] <AWOSDev> cd whatever
[09:01] <iter> hamdan: tar zxf
[09:01] <Kream> how do I see what files were installed by a particular package ?
[09:01] <AWOSDev> ^ that's what I use
[09:01] <MZM> how can I check wich pkg versions I can build with apt-get -b source?
[09:01] <Guest666> unrar-free not support winrar3 archives ?
[09:01] <AWOSDev> Kream, go into Synaptic and right click -- there should be properties
[09:01] <AWOSDev> Well I have to go
[09:01] <AWOSDev> Bye!
[09:01] <Kream> AWOSDev:  from the command line ?
[09:02] <AWOSDev> Kream -- no Synaptic is System-->Tools-->Synaptic
[09:02] <hamdan> hamdan@hamdan-laptop:~/Desktop$ sudo tar zxf xine-lib-1.1.2.tar.bz2
[09:02] <hamdan> gzip: stdin: not in gzip format
[09:02] <hamdan> tar: Child returned status 1
[09:02] <hamdan> tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors     why ?
[09:02] <AWOSDev> or mayve System-->Administration-->Synaptic
[09:02] <AWOSDev> hamdan
[09:02] <Kream> AWOSDev:  thanks :) . how do I find out using the command line ?
[09:02] <AWOSDev> bunzip2
[09:02] <Healot> Guest666: no, but unrar does. unrar is the non-free version
[09:02] <AWOSDev> Kream -- I think aptitude
[09:02] <iter> hamdan: tar jzxf xine-blah
[09:02] <AWOSDev> Well anyway, good bye all!
[09:02] <iter> hamdan: j is for bz2
[09:02] <Kream> thanks AWOSDev
[09:03] <AWOSDev> No problem Kream
[09:03] <MZM> hamdan: -z for tgz -j for tar.bz2
[09:03] <Guest666> where i can found unrar ?
[09:04] <Healot> !info unrar
[09:04] <ubotu> unrar: Unarchiver for .rar files (non-free version). In component multiverse, is optional. Version 1:3.5.4-0.1 (dapper), package size 84 kB, installed size 216 kB
[09:04] <trygg> How do i edit so that 'startx' starts fluxbox instead of gnome?
[09:04] <Guest666> what repository hace it ?
[09:04] <Healot> unrar will replace unrar-free
[09:04] <Healot> Guest666: multiverse, read what ubotu said
[09:04] <wweasel> I am building a package from source, and i'd like to exclude a file when it installs it. How can I get it to do that?
[09:05] <RadenX> ubotu i have an qestion
[09:05] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about i have an qestion - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[09:05] <hamdan> hamdan@hamdan-laptop:~/Desktop$ sudo tar jzxf xine-lib-1.1.2.tar.bz2
[09:05] <hamdan> tar: Conflicting compression options
[09:05] <hamdan> Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information.
[09:05] <RadenX> ubotu i have an question
[09:05] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about i have an question - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[09:05] <Madpilot> RadenX, ubotu is a bot, not a person...
[09:05] <rugbythomas> I am just starting to learn ubuntu, I'm a computer sci major and I have to make my first make file, what is the best program to do this
[09:05] <RadenX> aha
[09:05] <RadenX> ok
[09:05] <Krinns> Healot am using GUI
[09:06] <Krinns> its wont ask me for root password
[09:06] <Krinns> just says
[09:06] <Krinns> su returned with an error
[09:06] <trygg> RadenX: Just ask the question? :)
[09:06] <iter> Krinns: open terminal and do sudo passwd root
[09:06] <RadenX> i`m searcing for  root password in cd mode
[09:06] <Lilandra> rugbythomas: a text editor?
[09:06] <Guest666> what is adres of working multiserve reposoitory where i can found unrar nonfree ?
[09:07] <wweasel> rugbythomas: I believe what you are looking for is autoconf. I am not an expert though, so I'm just pointing in what I think is the right direction.
[09:07] <Lilandra> oh! autoconf...how does that work?
[09:07] <Madpilot> RadenX, there isn't one on the LiveCD - just use sudo, it'll work w/o password
[09:07] <Krinns> but how i set my printer from command line
[09:07] <Madpilot> Krinns, you to - use sudo + your own user pw...
[09:07] <rugbythomas> text editor would world, I was think there had to be a program meet for doing it
[09:07] <wweasel> Lilandra: I don't understand it, I just know I needed to use it to rebuild a make file when I merged some SVN patches into a stable I was installing. So I think that's what he needs.
[09:08] <RadenX> i need SU pass
[09:08] <RadenX> ?
[09:08] <bbrazil> rugbythomas: yes, automake. You really want to use a text editor
[09:08] <iter> Krinns: RadenX: run that command to enable root account
[09:08] <Madpilot> RadenX, on the LiveCD there is no password.
[09:08] <Lilandra> rugbythomas: well if you're just typing it up and u know what you're typing, any text editor
[09:08] <Lilandra> wweasel: i can only do SIMPLE make files...i need to learn
[09:08] <bbrazil> rugbythomas: info make has some good docs
[09:08] <Madpilot> iter, there is no good reason to enable a root pw in Ubuntu, and all the GUI tools are configured to use sudo instead...
[09:09] <wweasel> Does anyone here know how to help me exclude a file from a program I am installing from source?
[09:09] <Lilandra> Madpilot: so if i want someone else to ahve root access, i need to add them to sudoers?
[09:09] <iter> Madpilot: don't you think enabling it might solve the error returned by su for Krinns ?
[09:09] <Madpilot> Lilandra, yes
[09:09] <iter> since su barfs if there is no root acct?
[09:09] <Lilandra> sudo su
[09:09] <Madpilot> iter, that's why I told him to use sudo, not su...
[09:09] <Madpilot> !sudo
[09:09] <Krinns> ya doing
[09:09] <ubotu> sudo is a command to run programs with superuser privileges ("root"). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for all information.
[09:10] <Krinns> its doing
[09:10] <Lilandra> but the first time i realized there was no root, boy was i confused
[09:10] <Guest666> ubotu, what repositoty have unrar ?
[09:10] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about what repositoty have unrar ? - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[09:10] <bbrazil> iter: please don't give people that command while in here. Point them to the RootSudo wiki page
[09:10] <fallingdutch> how do the initramfs tools work? i need to add a binary to the initial ramdisk and a script to do some work, so what do i have to do in /usr/shar/initramfs-tools/ ? any links to documentations or howtos are very welcome, too
[09:10] <iter> bbrazil: su was throwing an error from gui mode
[09:10] <bbrazil> fallingdutch: check /usr/share/doc, there's a hook directory somewhere.
[09:11] <bbrazil> iter: yes, because ubuntu doesn't use su
[09:11] <iter> so I'm supposed to tell him to use cli to enable printer ?
[09:11] <archaios> AGITPROP
[09:11] <bbrazil> iter: there's a gnome-printing-manager thingy you have to use. Major brokenness in the CUPS web interface
[09:11] <Lynoure> ubuntu does use su if you ask it to
[09:12] <wweasel> You guys were just discussing make files...I am installing tk from source, and I want to exclude a specific file when I run "make install". How?
[09:12] <archaios> wweasel, you can't
[09:12] <archaios> without editing the makefile
[09:12] <iter> bbrazil: if I understand Krinns, it was gnome-printing mgr that was throwing the error
[09:12] <irawan> iter: I just installed gnome-cups-manager
[09:12] <bbrazil> iter: that sounds more like bug report territory
[09:12] <irawan> iter: you may try
[09:12] <Madpilot> iter, all the GUI tools should work with sud/the user's pw, so how su came into this, I'm not sure...
[09:12] <wweasel> archaios: Fair enough. Would it be hard to just tell it to exclude a file by editing the makefile? (We're not talking about a key thing, we're talking about a README doc)
[09:13] <iter> jeez he just wanted to use hit printer
[09:13] <hamdan> hamdan@hamdan-laptop:~/Desktop$ sudo tar jzfx xine-lib-1.1.2.tar.bz2
[09:13] <hamdan> tar: Conflicting compression options
[09:13] <iter> so I'm not allowed to tell him how to get it working?
[09:13] <archaios> wweasel: no, look for the install: section
[09:13] <iter> instead its cli or bug report?
[09:13] <iter> hmmm
[09:13] <archaios> wweasel: there may be a makefile in the docs dir
[09:13] <archaios> or it may be in the main package dir
[09:13] <bbrazil> iter: we don't encourage setting a root password without understanding the reasoning behind why there isn't a root password
[09:14] <Madpilot> iter, gnome's print manager GUI thing should work just fine w/ the user's own pw (does it even need a pw at all?)
[09:14] <hamdan> tar: Conflicting compression options
[09:14] <hamdan> ??
[09:14] <narg> hamdan: j = bzip2, z = gzip xvf perhaps?
[09:14] <Krinns> iter it gives Radeon hardware not found in lspci output
[09:14] <blfisher_> Okay, I'm definitely not understanding why internect connection sharing isn't working.  I went through the entire tutorial for firehol and still nothing
[09:14] <blfisher_> Does anyone know of a quick and efficient way to get internet connection sharing up and running?
[09:14] <archaios> AHAHAHA
[09:15] <iter> Krinns: I thought you were setting up the printer?
[09:15] <hamdan> narg sudo tar jzfx xine-lib-1.1.2.tar.bz2
[09:15] <Krinns> yes
[09:16] <narg> hamdan: sudo tar -xjf xine-lib-1.1.2.tar.bz2
[09:17] <archaios> it doesn't matter what comes, fresh goes better with life
[09:17] <archaios> with mentos freshness full of life
[09:17] <richiefrich> the f must be at the end
[09:18] <archaios> actually
[09:18] <archaios> you don't need the j
[09:18] <zanpakuto> blfisher_,  can I see your firehol.conf?
[09:18] <archaios> you can tar xvf any .tar.gz or .tar.bz2
[09:18] <archaios> it will autodetect the format.
[09:18] <archaios> only older versions of tar require j or z
[09:18] <richiefrich> yes but
[09:18] <richiefrich> u need the f last
 narg sudo tar jzfx xine-lib-1.1.2.tar.bz2  <-- that wont work
[09:18] <archaios> richard, no you don't
[09:18] <archaios> I assure you
[09:18] <blfisher_> zanpakuto: sure.    Now I can surf the internet again, but I can't connect to IRC once again as well :/
[09:20] <archaios> root@gateway:/usr/src# tar vfx squid-2.6.STABLE3.tar.gz
[09:20] <archaios> squid-2.6.STABLE3/
[09:20] <archaios> squid-2.6.STABLE3/cfgaux/
[09:20] <archaios> squid-2.6.STABLE3/cfgaux/compile
[09:20] <archaios> squid-2.6.STABLE3/cfgaux/config.guess
[09:20] <archaios> squid-2.6.STABLE3/cfgaux/config.sub
[09:20] <archaios> squid-2.6.STABLE3/cfgaux/depcomp
[09:20] <Healot> z - zipped
[09:20] <archaios> wanna bet?
[09:21] <archaios> :)
[09:21] <Healot> x - uncompress
[09:21] <archaios> it works just find, richiefrich
[09:21] <archaios> Healot, you don't need the z or the j
[09:21] <Healot> v - show details of files
[09:21] <archaios> Healot, oh god
[09:21] <archaios> we're not stupid
[09:21] <Healot> my favorite
[09:21] <Healot> archaios: soundsw like you are
[09:21] <blfisher_> zanpakuto: when I try to connect to IRC, I get the error message "software caused connection abort"
[09:21] <archaios> Healot, I've been programming for 14 years
[09:21] <richiefrich> then on gentoo it's borked
[09:21] <archaios> I'm a professional kernel developer for Linux and Windows
[09:21] <archaios> I do contract work for fortune 500 companies
[09:21] <blfisher_> zanpakuto: but I'm positive it's not the software's fault.    2. I've been nothing but polite. 3. I was merely demonstrating rapidly that the position of the 'f' argument to tar does not matter.
[09:23] <Healot> archaios: just sounds like you are, i dont need to know what you've done etc. etc. :)
[09:23] <richiefrich> ra1 rsync
[09:23] <blfisher_> zanpakuto: yeah.  I edited it to say start=YES and wait for "eth0"
[09:23] <archaios> Healot: how do I "sound" stupid? I just showed that the position of the f parameter doesn't matter
[09:23] <blfisher_> I couldn't get firehol to start without editing it
[09:23] <archaios> you're claiming that it does
[09:23] <Madpilot> Healot, you be polite too, or I'll just make things easier by kicking the pair of you... :|
[09:23] <archaios> narg: tar (GNU tar) 1.15.1
[09:23] <blfisher_> zanpakuto: but I still have the original file if you want me to put it back
[09:23] <richiefrich> tar (GNU tar) 1.15.91
[09:23] <ra1> richiefrich: what is advantage of rsync comparing with unison
[09:23] <archaios> Healot: in fact, I've said nothing even remotely stupid
[09:24] <Healot> we know it doesn't matter
[09:24] <iter> ra1: unison uses rsync
[09:24] <archaios> richiefrich: my version of tar does not care where the f parameter is, and nor should yours
[09:24] <archaios> it uses getopt_long()
[09:24] <archaios> which definitely does not care where the filename argument is
[09:24] <iter> ra1: unison goes both ways, rsync only one
[09:24] <narg> archaios: interesting, same as mine, but mine does need f at the end.  I wanna work on my home laptop (ubuntu) through remote desktop from my office
[09:25] <archaios> dmsantam: you may not like it, but I'm no fool
[09:25] <dmsantam> archaios what is your webpage?
[09:25] <iter> ra1: yes unison uses the rsync protocol to do its transfers
[09:25] <richiefrich> archaios i'll try it that why.. when im done syncing from this svn :P
[09:25] <iter> ra1: and while rsync can do server A -> server B unison can do server A <-> server B data transfers
[09:25] <zanpakuto> blfisher_, I never used reverse, can you try the simpler one first? comment the router internet2home stuff and add router home2internet then put masquerade  and client all accept then restart firehol?
[09:25] <KrakensDen> jatt, you might want to look into either vnc or nx/nomachine
[09:25] <archaios> dmsantam: website? haha. I don't even have one... I don't need to advertise to reach business contacts, dmsantam, because I've been in the business for nigh on 15 years
[09:25] <ra1> k what abt the memory usage comparing with rsync
[09:26] <stephans> jatt, what do you want to do?
[09:26] <blfisher_> zanpakuto: sure.  But this is the output I get from firehol when I start it without the edited /etc/default/firehol >> " FireHOL ...Stopping: /etc/default/firehol forbids it."
[09:26] <stephans> just rdp to a windows box from ubuntu?
[09:26] <jatt> KrakensDen: thanks. I've tried vnc in the past but it is terribly slow. what do you mean by nx/nomachine?
[09:26] <KrakensDen> jatt, http://freenx.berlios.de/
[09:26] <richiefrich> archaios what kernel do u work on ?
[09:27] <jatt> stephans: the other way around: I want to rdp to a linux box from windows
[09:27] <richiefrich> archaios mm git ?
[09:27] <KrakensDen> jatt, it's basically compression for X11 protocol
[09:27] <ra1> iter: k what abt the memory usage comparing with rsync
[09:27] <richiefrich> archaios or i mean what one do u patch for
[09:27] <zanpakuto> blfisher_, yup. put your edited default/firehol file (ie enabled firehol)
[09:27] <archaios> richiefrich: my kernel development is contractual work
[09:27] <KrakensDen> jatt, as far as I know, RDP is based on the assumption that the server is running windows
[09:27] <iter> ra1: can't speak to it, sorry
[09:27] <archaios> richiefrich: I modify whatever kernel my client requires
[09:27] <richiefrich> archaios so all custom
[09:27] <iter> ra1: they both seem to work fine
[09:27] <yoshiznit123> hey everyone, is there a way to share a raid drive between ubuntu and windows?
[09:27] <dmsantam> archaios who is your biggest client?
[09:28] <KrakensDen> jatt, there are binaries available
[09:28] <stephans> ljatt, inux does not support rdp as a server service... you have to use X or vnc, or Tarantella...
[09:28] <KrakensDen> jatt, I don't really have experience with it though :/
[09:28] <ra1> iter: regarding memory usage which one u suggest rsync or unison
[09:28] <jatt> stephans, KrakensDen you are right rdp may be only for windows servers. On http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/3408501 I read about VNC integration in an earlier version of gnome (2.8(
[09:28] <archaios> dmsantam: as of now, I'm doing a large amount of work for several start-ups. there is a rapidly diminishing market among larger corporations due to outsourcing, but I'm still in the business.
[09:28] <stephans> you can enable the "remote Desktop" in ubuntu... and use a vnc client...
[09:28] <archaios> dmsantam: my former employer was IBM
[09:28] <richiefrich> archaios  did u by chance check out the new slack ver ?  thats a 2.6 kerenl now by default?
[09:28] <narg> yoshiznit123: not formatting it ntfs?
[09:28] <iter> ra1: should be pretty much the same same
[09:29] <KrakensDen> richiefrich, it is?
[09:29] <iter> ra1: rsync is a little simpler to implement
[09:29] <richiefrich> im askin
[09:29] <KrakensDen> richiefrich, I thought 11 was still putting that off?
[09:29] <jatt> stephans: I think I miss the package ofr the remote desktop option. Under System->Preferences I don't have that option.
[09:29] <KrakensDen> 2.6 is ridiculously unstable
[09:29] <ra1> iter: k tk
[09:29] <richiefrich> KrakensDen im asking
[09:29] <ricperry1> Sorry for spamming the room, but are there any networking gurus in here?  I'm having a little difficulty in correcting a windows networking problem while I migrate my configuration to linux-only.
[09:29] <KrakensDen> richiefrich, as of a few weeks ago, no
[09:29] <archaios> dmsantam: I did contractual work for IBM Global Services Australia primarily for z/OS, on loan to a major telecommunications company
[09:29] <archaios> these days
[09:29] <richiefrich> KrakensDen  what do u mean ridiculously ?
[09:29] <archaios> I'm independent
[09:29] <stephans> jatt, it is there ...  system>preferences> remote desktop
[09:29] <yoshiznit123> narg, i have 2 drives that are raided together, and i'd like to have a vfat/ntfs/ext3 partition that's readable from both linux and windows
[09:29] <KrakensDen> richiefrich, it is highly unstable
[09:30] <ra1> iter: is there is good tool available on linux to take backup incremental
[09:30] <Guest666> The program 'totem' received an X Window System error.
[09:30] <Guest666> This probably reflects a bug in the program.
[09:30] <Guest666> The error was 'BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)'.
[09:30] <Guest666>   (Details: serial 71 error_code 11 request_code 141 minor_code 19)
[09:30] <Guest666>   (Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously;
[09:30] <Guest666>    that is, you will receive the error a while after causing it.
[09:30] <KrakensDen> richiefrich, especially if you do anything bus intensive on non-high end hardware
[09:30] <Guest666>    To debug your program, run it with the --sync command line
[09:30] <Guest666>    option to change this behavior. You can then get a meaningful
[09:30] <richiefrich> KrakensDen  im been on they lastest kernel for  and had no problems
[09:30] <Guest666>    backtrace from your debugger if you break on the gdk_x_error() function.)
[09:30] <Guest666>  - what is this ?
[09:30] <Healot> !paste
[09:30] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[09:30] <KrakensDen> richiefrich, you've been very, very lucky
[09:30] <jatt> stephans: not on my desktop :( (dapper). I think I don't have the package installed for it.
[09:30] <stephans> jatt, you can use the "add/remove" program to add it...
[09:30] <irawan> has anyone try www.gnome-dock.org in dapper yet?
[09:30] <KrakensDen> richiefrich, I have a box running ubuntu that goes down twice a day at least
[09:30] <richiefrich> KrakensDen  why do u say that. so u run 2.4 ?
[09:30] <blfisher_> zanpakuto: http://pastebin.com/778617
[09:30] <Madpilot> Guest666, next time, use a pastebin!!!
[09:30] <archaios> dmsantam: if you wish to challenge my credentials, feel free to do it in private... it's clearly off-topic
[09:30] <KrakensDen> richiefrich, nope, the hardware support in 2.6 is better
[09:30] <richiefrich> KrakensDen i never heard of such a thing
[09:31] <KrakensDen> richiefrich, I only boot into slack if I need to do hardcore offline work
[09:31] <narg> yoshiznit123: I'm not knowledgeable about raids, but my (single disk) partitions share just fine when needed. except for the ntfs one.
[09:31] <richiefrich> im shocked u didnt goto arch
[09:31] <Guest666> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21955 - why totem not works ?
[09:31] <KrakensDen> richiefrich, google around, lots of people are having trouble
[09:31] <blfisher_> zanpakuto: also, I let my irc client on the LAN computer run for a while, and it finally connected.  But I don't think I should have to wait 20 retries before I can finally get connected to a server
[09:31] <MZM> how can I build deb from source using aditional repo defined in sources.list? apt-get source always gives pkg from main repo...
[09:31] <Guest666> Madpilot, ok, sorry
[09:31] <KrakensDen> arch looks nice, but I don't really have the time
[09:31] <yoshiznit123> narg, okay (you might want to try ntfs-3g :-)
[09:31] <KrakensDen> I already have a working slack install ;)
[09:32] <yoshiznit123> does anyone else know if it's possible to share a raided partition between windows and ubuntu?
[09:32] <richiefrich> KrakensDen  why chose a distro thats cmopiled on i386  instead of one thats on i686 ?
[09:32] <zanpakuto> blfisher_, so you are now able to connect?
[09:32] <narg> yoshiznit123: pft, I boot into windows once at month at best, and I only have games on ntfs. Not worth the effort ;)
[09:32] <richiefrich> KrakensDen unless  u have an old box