[00:02] <a|wen> neversfelde: bilbo looks all good :)
[00:03] <neversfelde> a|wen: :) I hope it will make it in the archive this time
[00:03] <neversfelde> thanks for reviewing
[00:05] <a|wen> neversfelde: you've got to motu acks now ... so next step the archive admins ;)
[00:05] <neversfelde> yes, it was rejected last time because of the lintian override
[00:05] <neversfelde> Riddell: would you have a look at it, I think this might be special KDE
[00:06] <Riddell> special you say
[00:06]  * Riddell spots ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu in the queue
[00:07] <Riddell> shtylman_: know anything about that? ^^
[00:07]  * ScottK hopes not short bus special
[00:07] <Riddell> neversfelde: no bilbo in the queue
[00:08] <neversfelde> Riddell: it has two advocates on revu, I don't know, if it is auto uploaded?
[00:08] <Riddell> no it needs someone to upload
[00:08] <neversfelde> a|wen: can you upload it?
[00:08] <ScottK> The 2nd advocate should upload it.
[00:09] <a|wen> do i need to do anything but upload it and set the LP bug to fix committed?
[00:09] <Riddell> archive the entry on Revu
[00:10] <Riddell> the bug should fix itself if it's in the changelog
[00:10] <ScottK> a|wen: When you get the changes file back from LP, forward it to ubuntu-motu ML.
[00:11]  * ScottK vanishes again.
[00:11] <a|wen> thx!
[00:12] <shtylman_> Riddell: nope...where did ya spot it? I guess it is time for me to look into that :)
[00:12] <Riddell> shtylman_: it's in New queue
[00:12] <shtylman_> ...don't really know what that means...
[00:14] <Riddell> shtylman_: the package has been uploaded for the first time so it needs to get revired by an archive admin for sanity and licence compliance before it goes into the archive
[00:15] <shtylman_> ahh I see
[00:15] <Riddell> http://launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow
[00:17] <shtylman_> cool
[00:17] <shtylman_> I pulled the code to take a look...interesting...
[00:18] <Riddell> mm, it's just html with javascript to do the slide transition
[00:18] <shtylman_> yep
[00:18] <shtylman_> it is currently gtk
[00:18] <shtylman_> but shouldn't be too hard to make a qt version
[00:19] <shtylman_> would you like me to do that? (and have it take priority over the printer stuff?)
[00:19] <shtylman_> or wait for their codebase to get settled in a bit more?
[00:20] <Riddell> shtylman_: dunno, I guess ask evan what their plans are for it when would be a good time to port it to KDE (assuming we want it)
[00:20] <shtylman_> alright...I will ping him on it...
[00:21] <shtylman_> right now...I am trying to get a KCategorizedView to work...
[00:21] <shtylman_> I want to make that the primary view for the printers and whatnot...
[00:21] <shtylman_> but it is fighting me... !!
[00:22] <shtylman_> the docs...are...a bit ... *sparce* to use the expression lightly...
[00:24] <Riddell> sounds like a new fangled widget
[00:24] <shtylman_> it is the widget that does the System Settings categories
[00:24] <shtylman_> (from what I have learned)
[00:25] <shtylman_> I want to use it to display printers and utility functions
[00:25] <Riddell> yes, some dolphin views too I think
[00:25] <shtylman_> I think it will look clean
[00:25] <shtylman_> yep
[00:32] <a|wen> neversfelde: uploaded!
[00:32] <neversfelde> a|wen: thank you
[00:47] <shtylman_> is it safe to update my system yet to kde 4.3 rc? :)
[00:49] <Riddell> shtylman_: you can test 4.3.0 if you're on karmic
[00:49] <shtylman_> really? ... obviously I am on karmic...why would I run a stable os? I am a developer :p ... but I didn't know 4.3 was out?
[00:50] <Riddell> it's not, it's  top secret
[00:50] <shtylman_> ooo
[00:51] <JontheEchidna> if you've been running an up-to-date karmic you've got the 4.3 RCs
[00:52] <shtylman_> I have been up to date...slacking :)
[00:52] <JontheEchidna> heh
[00:52] <JontheEchidna> I mean, any update in the last few months and you've been using at least 4.3 beta
[01:07]  * shtylman_ wonders if the new kernel update will fix the booting problem...
[01:08] <claydoh> shtylman_: which boting problem?
[01:08]  * claydoh has a karmic booting problem, as well as a typing problem :/
[01:09] <shtylman_> bug 398059
[01:09] <shtylman_> ouch
[01:10]  * claydoh doesn't suffer that one, he thinks
[01:11] <shtylman_> :)
[01:11]  * claydoh prob suffers from an aging laptop
[01:13] <nixternal> ScottK: the keyboard switch is the last thing to impl
[01:19] <shtylman> well...that went...smoothly
[01:19] <shtylman> I have no idea if I am using the new kdm theme though...
[01:19] <Riddell> well it would look different if you were
[01:20] <Riddell> you have to choose it manually it seems
[01:20] <shtylman> yea...I see that...
[01:20] <shtylman> yea..I can confirm that you have to choose it manually
[01:20] <shtylman> I can also confirm that the network manager icon (although showing connected) still has the busy status going
[01:20] <Riddell> busy status?
[01:21] <shtylman> little scrolling circle thing
[01:21] <shtylman> it does it when connecting and getting a lease and whatnot...but even though I am connected...it is still going...
[01:22] <Riddell> shtylman: plasmoid or systray applet?
[01:22] <shtylman> plasmoid
[01:22] <shtylman> is there a systray applet?
[01:22] <Riddell> shtylman: try the new plasma-widget-networkmanagement
[01:22] <shtylman> k
[01:22] <Riddell> and run knetworkmanager
[01:22] <Riddell> version 0.1~svn1002781-0ubuntu2
[01:24] <shtylman> knetworkmanager is not installed
[01:24] <shtylman> and is the new widget installed by default?
[01:24] <shtylman> nvm...I see that it isn't...(installing)
[01:25] <shtylman> ooo
[01:25] <shtylman> knetworkmanager... fancy
[01:25] <shtylman> why does the connected icon not look like it is connected?
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> because the icons are preliminary
[01:26] <shtylman> ahh
[01:26] <shtylman> so is the plasma-widget-networkmanaget just a systray app?
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> the tooltip should be a bit better about things, I've found
[01:26] <shtylman> or a desktop widget?
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> just a systray app, if you add the network manager applet all you get is a nice picture of a cell phone
[01:27] <shtylman> hahaha
[01:27] <JontheEchidna> the plasma applet is undergoing major changes ;-)
[01:29] <JontheEchidna> peeps haven't been using the bzr repo for the Qt packaging ;(
[01:29] <JontheEchidna> *:(
[01:29] <shtylman> I see
[01:39] <JontheEchidna> So I'm doing those QtWebKit patches, anything else needing done wrt Qt?
[01:51] <shtylman> http://paste.ubuntu.com/237777/
[01:51] <shtylman> this crashes (segfaults) on exit for me...
[01:52] <shtylman> can anyone confirm this?
[01:53] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: crashes here too
[01:58] <maco> Riddell: plasma-desktop runs again :)
[01:59] <shtylman> weird...thoughts??
[02:29] <shtylman> model programming in qt is quite hard to grasp
[02:49] <NCommander> ScottK, kdegames and amarok FTBFS fixes merged upstream and into Debian.
[03:01] <shtylman> anyone able to help me out: http://paste.ubuntu.com/237911/
[03:01] <shtylman> that crashes when I run it...
[03:01] <shtylman> am I doing something blatantly dumb??
[03:01] <shtylman> just trying to setup a very basic model first
[04:19] <ScottK> NCommander: Cool.  Thanks.
[04:20] <ScottK> nixternal: OK.  Sounds good.
[04:37] <nixternal> ScottK: right now, I am trying to figure out the best way to expose the application to the shortcut stuff
[04:52] <ScottK> Cool.
[07:43] <ScottK> BTW, arora worked today for me for logging into a t-mobile hotspot.  That's been hit or miss for Konqueror in the past for me.
[09:27] <OdyX> Hi. Debian guy here... I have installed a jaunty Kubuntu under kvm to hunt a bug down (works in Ubuntu and not in Debian). How can I upgrade to karmic ? (:%s/jaunty/karmic/ in /etc/apt/sources.list and aptitude dist-upgrade ?)
[09:34] <neversfelde> OdyX: sudo do-release-upgrade --devel-release
[09:34] <neversfelde> Hi, btw :)
[09:35] <OdyX> neversfelde: trying now. Thanks !
[10:54] <Riddell> my console freezing seems to have stopped with the new linux image, this makes me happy
[10:55] <smarter> hmm, looks like KMail just forgot about all my mail filters :/
[10:56]  * smarter wonders if he should blame ext4
[10:57] <Riddell> I've not been brave enough to touch ext4 yet
[10:58] <davmor2> smarter: no everybody is blaming cigarettes for everything so join the bandwagon :)
[11:19] <jussi01> I thought we were blaming Riddell for everything this week?
[11:19] <jussi01> :P
[11:30] <dpm> Riddell: regarding what we were talking yesterday on which date would be best for fetching desktop_*.po translations from the svn stable branch, upstream told me that the day the tag is created (in our case the 4.3 one) would be best. We can talk about it next week at the sprint.
[11:30] <dpm> and good morning, btw
[11:41] <Riddell> yes, sprint, don't let me forget to go to that
[11:43] <dpm> :)
[11:55] <Riddell> what can I do a talk about at the sprint?
[12:38] <Riddell> http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/Site/Home.html  now there's a cool Kubuntu customisation
[12:42] <dpm> oh dear, but please please do not use that as a topic if you're planning a talk
[12:43] <Riddell> ooh I could do couldn't I
[12:44] <Riddell> "how to attract pre-pubescent girls to free software"
[12:48] <sebas> Riddell: the penguin looks out of place IMO.
[12:49] <sebas> It should be a puppy or something
[12:49]  * sebas sees a fun blog entry coming
[12:56] <Riddell> ooh compositing on intel is working perfectly today
[12:56]  * Riddell turns his windows to maximum wobble
[12:58] <Riddell> I'm not convinced by the affect which brings windows to the front when you hover over them on the taskbar, it clashes with the tooltips
[13:00] <bdgraue> Riddell: isn't there a copyright violation (Hannah Montana)?
[13:01] <Riddell> bdgraue: ssh, Disney will never notice
[13:01] <bdgraue> *rotfl*
[13:03] <Riddell> maco, seele: should we add these patches to Kubuntu for 4.3?  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/389751
[13:04] <Riddell> it'll mean we rely on rosetta for translations (which is fine, bring able to change strings is half the point of rosetta)
[13:04]  * davmor2 slaps Riddell in the hope he comes back to his senses
[13:08] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: The KWin dudes eventually disabled the "bring window to front on taskbar hover" effect by default
[13:08] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: oh right, maybe I just have it left over in my settings from before then
[13:08] <JontheEchidna> prolly
[13:08] <JontheEchidna> I didn't like the effect much either
[13:10] <Riddell> dpm: "The upstream sources are gettextized (actually, qt'ized) but do not contain translations (PO files)."  qt'ised isn't right, Qt uses a different translation mechanism
[13:12] <Riddell> dpm: I'd say "The upstream sources are internationalised using KDE functions for gettext, exctracted to PO files kept in a separate part of SVN from the source"
[13:12] <Riddell> dpm: this is on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Translations/Upstream/KDE/KubuntuTranslationsLifecycle of course
[13:13] <Riddell> dpm: under Packaging the first two bullet points are the same?
[13:13] <JontheEchidna> hmm @ bug 407322
[13:15] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: amarok packaging being the mess it is I don't even know if it generates .pots at all
[13:15] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: but mysql 5.1 should move to main soon I believe so I was planning to  wait for that and we can go back to normal packaging
[13:16] <JontheEchidna> I saw on the server team meeting minutes that they are aiming for 5.1 in main
[13:17] <Riddell> yep
[13:18] <dpm> Riddell: well spotted, thanks! I haven't had the chance to look at this into more detail, but I had put it there as a reminder to check how this was actually working, as sometime ago I read this -> http://blog.venthur.de/2008/09/14/gettext-and-qt4/ (last comment on the blog post), which made me think that KDE were using gettext on top of qt
[13:19]  * dpm is happy that someone is reading the documentation in the wiki!
[13:21] <Riddell> dpm: that commenter is confused
[13:22] <dpm> so am I
[13:23] <Riddell> well KDE is using gettext on top of Qt insofar as KDE uses Qt and it uses gettext. it doesn't use the Qt transltions mechanism at all
[13:26] <dpm> ok, I get it
[13:26] <dpm> (or at least I think I do)
[13:29] <DaskreeCH> ScottK: But Konqueror works better in Gmail than Arora does
[13:29] <DaskreeCH> Arora has bad integration with KDE as well :(
[13:30] <Tm_T> I fail to see what's wrong with slashdot and Konqueror
[13:32] <Tm_T> something to do with comments?
[13:33] <Tm_T> and btw, I'm happy to get good webkit browser in KDE (:
[13:33] <DaskreeCH> how is Rekonq? Anyone tried 0.2 ?
[13:33] <JontheEchidna> Rekonq is in rewrite mode, so it'd be unprudent to include it any time soon
[13:34] <JontheEchidna> it's going to use webkitkde after the rewrite anyway
[13:34] <Tm_T> ...so we could just use Konqueror then?
[13:34]  * Riddell edits Translations/Upstream/KDE/KubuntuTranslationsLifecycle
[13:34] <JontheEchidna> except that webkitkde isn't ready for mainstream use either
[13:34]  * DaskreeCH votes Konqui with aroa being a very visible option
[13:35] <dpm> thanks Riddell
[13:35]  * JontheEchidna likes that too
[13:38] <Riddell> not really the Ubuntu way that, it's always best to pick the best way and go with it
[13:39] <DaskreeCH> There is no best way
[13:39] <JontheEchidna> they all suck equally? :P
[13:39] <JontheEchidna> speaking of, did anybody else know of anything that needs done with Qt aside from those QtWebKit patch cherry picks?
[13:39] <Riddell> they all suck differently
[13:39] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: yes there's a fix arora wanted
[13:40] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: http://code.google.com/p/arora/issues/detail?id=530
[13:40] <JontheEchidna> I have applied a fix for a crash when dragging things out of arora's window, and where arora tries to load mimetypes that it doesn't know in the browser
[13:41] <JontheEchidna> ah! that's it :)
[13:42] <JontheEchidna> I'm preparing a package to throw at my ppa. If it builds I'll push the packaging to bzr
[13:42] <Riddell> we have bzr for qt packaging again?
[13:43] <JontheEchidna> I made one back in the 4.5.1-0ubuntu4 days but it seems it was forgotten
[13:51] <DaskreeCH> I think having a multihead approach is the best way currently :-(
[13:51] <DaskreeCH> So far in My experience Konqueror sucks the least in that things work but not as intended
[13:52] <DaskreeCH> In WEbkittish stuff so far somethings work as intended other stuff jsut doesn't work at all
[15:19] <maco> Riddell: not everything matches exactly
[15:20] <maco> Riddell: kdepim is r1003305 in trunk
[15:20] <maco> the kollision part of kdegames was accepted but no word on the others
[15:21] <Riddell> maco: do you know if the relevant maintainers have seen the patches?  do you know if there even are active maintainers?
[15:21] <maco> i emailed the patches to martin heno, whose name is in the AUTHORS file for lskat and kfourinarow
[15:22] <maco> (he's the only name)
[15:24] <Riddell> maco: he may well not be active, they've had time to respond so if you havn't heard anything I can just commit them myself
[15:24] <Riddell> and add the patchs to the kubuntu packages
[15:25] <maco> hmm no response from kwrite/kate either, though i sent the patch to the mailing list http://lists.kde.org/?l=kwrite-devel&m=124796128028957&w=2
[15:28] <Riddell> ~twitter update why is the Qt towel still covering me in bits of green fluff
[15:28] <kubotu> status updated
[15:31] <ScottK> DaskreeCH: I'm unconvinced either way.  Arora works better for some things and Konqueror other.
[15:31] <DaskreeCH> ScottK: That's what I said :-P
[15:34] <maco> Riddell: ok i said before that plasma-desktop could now run. it was a fake-out. yesterday it worked, today it does not
[15:36] <seele> when do we need to decide about software inclusion? by the september 10th ui freeze or sooner?
[15:40] <maco> seele: feature freeze, i think
[15:40] <seele> aug 27th then?
[15:40] <seele> we should probably have a meeting then :P
[15:41] <seele> when is the developer sprint? does it make sense to try and do it before then?
[15:41]  * seele looks up the release schedule
[15:41] <nixternal> meetings are fun!
[15:41] <nixternal> I don't have the power to vote no anymore though :(
[15:41] <seele> you can vote in spirit! your spirit just wont matter as much ;)
[15:41] <nixternal> haha, thanks :p
[15:42] <seele> hey.. so what's the deal with the job or reenlisting?
[15:42] <seele> when are you moving to DC? :P
[15:42] <Riddell> seele: I was thinking beta but maybe featurefreeze would be better
[15:42] <Riddell> yes we should have a meeting
[15:42] <seele> nixternal: me and scott will have to take you to the pirate bar
[15:42] <nixternal> no reinlisting now...they wouldn't give me the orders I wanted..they wanted to ship me to VA to be an instructor...homey don't play dat
[15:42] <seele> nixternal: norfolk?
[15:42] <nixternal> doubt I will move out there any time soon
[15:42] <Riddell> canonical sprint is all next week so I may not be around in the evenings (or I may be I don't know the situation)
[15:42] <nixternal> Little Creek, which is just right up the street
[15:43] <seele> ah, so shore duty and no ship assignment? boring.
[15:43] <nixternal> shore duty would have been fine, just not an instructor
[15:43] <seele> Riddell: starting on monday?
[15:43] <Riddell> seele: yes
[15:43] <nixternal> and a Gunner's Mate instructor at Little Creek means Magazine Sprinklers...ie. fire surpression, which I absolutely hated while on the ship in the first place
[15:43] <jjesse> nixternal are you joinin the navy
[15:44] <nixternal> jjesse: not any more
[15:44] <jjesse> ah
[15:44] <nixternal> I turned 35 on Wed. so I don't qualify anymore...considered an old fart like ScottK now :)
[15:44] <seele> Riddell: so the week after then?
[15:44] <Riddell> seele: yeah I think so
[15:44]  * ScottK waves
[15:45] <Riddell> nixternal: you know there's a kde-oldies list for the likes of you :)
[15:45] <ScottK> Riddell: Are you going to fix kdesudo and kvkbd?
[15:45] <nixternal> I have been considering a career change...either going with business which is what my degree is in, or something totally off the wall
[15:45] <seele> lol
[15:45] <nixternal> Riddell: hah, didn't know that....maybe I can get on there and talk about my Debian Potato box running old arse KDE still
[15:45] <Riddell> ScottK: gah, yes
[15:46] <nixternal> though I haven't booted it up since last year, and boy did it bring back memories
[15:46] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
[15:46] <seele> nixternal: do physical security! i have a friend who gets paid to break into high-security government buildings. he has to carry a get out of jail free card with him (it doesnt really say that, it just has a phone number on it)
[15:46] <nixternal> I was going to do that when I got out of the Navy the first time in 1998
[15:49] <DaskreeCH> seele: If it said Get out of jail free I'd consider it more strongly
[15:49] <nixternal> hehe
[15:49] <ScottK> Riddell: Can you check and see if boost1.37 is free of rdepends?  I think it's ready for a removal bug, but you guys seem to be able to find obscure stuff I miss.
[15:49] <DaskreeCH> Ah nixternal Why does nvidia and X suck so bad?
[15:53] <nixternal> don't know, I don't use that proprietary garbage
[15:53]  * DaskreeCH cries bitterly in the corner
[15:55] <Riddell> ScottK: build-rdeps is what should be used, but it doesn't work on Ubuntu
[15:57] <JontheEchidna> is that like reverse-build-depends?
[15:58] <Riddell> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/239372/
[15:58] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: yes
[15:58] <Riddell> but from Debian
[15:58] <ScottK> Riddell: We do have reverse-build-depends in ubuntu-dev-tools and I used that.  It's the "Oh, package obscure-lib0 on ia64 hasn't been rebuild since warty and still depends on it" that I miss.
[15:58] <ScottK> I did use reverse-build-depends.
[15:59]  * ScottK thought there was an easy way for people will shell access to discover that.
[15:59] <Riddell> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/239376/
[16:00] <Riddell> so debian-xcontrol foundry and asio  ?
[16:00] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.  I think those are either alternate build-depends or I fixed it, but it didn't get updated yet.
[16:00] <Riddell> ok
[16:01]  * ScottK files bug.
[16:01] <Riddell> so next question is binaries on obscure arches that havn't built
[16:01] <Riddell> don't know is the answer, nothing about it in the docs
[16:02] <ScottK> OK.
[16:03] <ScottK> Thanks for checking.
[16:05] <Riddell> maco: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=1005211
[16:06] <maco> Riddell: great, thanks
[16:06] <ScottK> foundry is an alternate too.
[16:06] <ScottK> Riddell: Bug #407388 is you want to, or I could give it to StevenK because he enjoys that kind of thing.
[16:07] <Riddell> ScottK: Friday: JamieStrandboge  he's the archive man for the day
[16:07] <ScottK> Riddell: OK.  Thanks.
[16:13] <Riddell> maco, seele: how do I comment on review board?
[16:14] <Riddell> and how do I mark that I've committed it
[16:14] <Riddell> and what's the advantage of this over bugs.kde.org anyway?
[16:14] <maco> its for reviewing patches, not triaging stuff
[16:15] <Riddell> bug trackers aren't /for/ triaging stuff, that's just a side affect :)
[16:16] <Riddell> maco: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=1005224
[16:16] <maco> heh alright
[16:17] <maco> well its supposed to be just patch review, not bug discussion
[16:20] <agateau> Hey, I need some packaging help here
[16:21]  * Riddell spots a troop of ninjas swining in to agateau's rescue
[16:21] <agateau> I am trying to package my very rough indicator applet
[16:21] <agateau> :)
[16:21] <agateau> I create a package for my lib, named libindicate-qt
[16:22] <agateau> and am trying to package my applet (plasma-indicatordisplay)
[16:22] <agateau> but dpkg-shlibdeps does not like me:
[16:22] <agateau> dpkg-shlibdeps: error: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libindicate-qt.so.0 (used by debian/plasma-indicatordisplay/usr/lib/kde4/plasma_applet_indicatordisplay.so).
[16:23] <Riddell> agateau: something wrong with the shlib stuff in libindicate-qt package maybe?  can you put the packages somewhere for us to look at?
[16:23] <agateau> libindicate-qt is on my brand new ppa
[16:23] <agateau> let me check if it's build yet
[16:24] <Riddell> "This PPA does not contain any packages yet."
[16:24] <agateau> mmm
[16:25] <agateau> wrong syntax for dput
[16:25]  * agateau hides
[16:25] <agateau> funny how dput did not complain
[16:30] <agateau> Riddell: uploading again
[16:33] <Riddell> agateau: #       dh_makeshlibs
[16:33] <Riddell> that needs to be uncommented
[16:33] <agateau> oh
[16:34] <agateau> thanks!
[16:34]  * agateau wonders if it would be better to recreate the package with cdbs
[16:35] <Riddell> agateau: cdbs does make things much easier, but if you're interested in packaging it may still be best to do some debhelper-only packages first to understand what's going on
[16:35]  * ScottK suggests debhelper for the library and cdbs for the application.
[16:35] <Riddell> agateau: version number should be 0.1.0-0ubuntu1~ppa1
[16:36] <Riddell> Standards-Version: 3.8.1   I think 3.8.2 is the current one
[16:36] <ScottK> Yes. 3.8.2
[16:36] <Riddell> agateau: libindicate-qt1.dirs that file isn't needed
[16:36] <Riddell> nor libindicate-qt-dev.dirs
[16:36] <agateau> ok
[16:37] <Riddell> agateau: not "docs" or "dirs"
[16:37] <Riddell> and obviously debian/copyright isn't complete
[16:37] <agateau> enabling dh_makeshlibs does not add any file to the .deb, it's in the metainfo, right?
[16:37] <ScottK> Yes
[16:39] <Riddell> agateau: "LGPL 2.1 or 3" no and later?  (I forget the canonical policy but it's strange not to have and later since LGPL allows for GPL 2 or later regardless)
[16:39] <agateau> about version numbers, I thought it was a good idea to have my initials in it, to indicate where it comes from. Should I use ppa instead?
[16:39] <agateau> Riddell: I followed the choices made on libindicate
[16:39] <agateau> which was originally LGPL3 only
[16:39] <agateau> but added LGPL2.1 to be able to patch more apps
[16:40] <Riddell> agateau: ~ag is fine too
[16:40] <agateau> ok
[16:40] <agateau> but I must add "ubuntu" before
[16:40] <agateau> that's it?
[16:41] <Riddell> yes (for packages with any chance of getting into debian anyway, which ideally this would at some point)
[16:41] <agateau> ok
[16:41] <Riddell> agateau: libindicate-dev (>= 0.1.99) isn't in the archive so it won't build in your PPA unless you make your PPA depend on a PPA that does contain it
[16:42] <agateau> Riddell: didn't I upload it?
[16:42] <agateau> libindicate-dev is in ... indicator-applet (don't ask)
[16:42] <Riddell> agateau: oh I see, so you did
[16:42] <agateau> took me some time to figure it :)
[16:44] <Riddell> libindicate1 depends on libgtk2.0-0 :(
[16:45] <agateau> Riddell: yes, this will be fixed
[16:45] <agateau> hopefully in Dublin
[16:45] <agateau> ultimately it will depend on glib and dbus only
[16:47] <Riddell> agateau: W: libindicate-qt1: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libindicate-qt0.0.0
[16:47] <agateau> I am not a packager, i guess it shows :/
[16:48] <Riddell> agateau: this is far better than most packages on revu :)
[16:48] <agateau> dh_make did most of the work
[16:48] <agateau> my plasma-indicatordisplay depends on libindicate-qt instead of libindicate-qt1
[16:48] <agateau> any idea?
[16:51] <Riddell> agateau: what's in /var/lib/dpkg/info/libindicate-qt1.shlibs ?
[16:51] <agateau> Riddell: libindicate-qt 0.0.0 libindicate-qt1
[16:53] <Riddell> that should be fine
[16:54]  * agateau rebuilds
[16:55] <agateau> works now
[16:56] <agateau> uploaded!
[17:00] <Riddell> nothing has appeared
[17:11] <nixternal> currently dail !work
[17:42]  * Riddell sets oxygen air as default KDM theme
[17:45]  * ScottK wonders if someone would put together a KDE equivalent of http://davidsiegel.org/distributed-user-testing-archives/
[17:51] <EagleScreen> laptop keys for brightness and suspend does not work in karmic
[17:51] <ScottK> EagleScreen: Sure they do (on my system).  You need to file a bug with the relevant hardware details.
[17:51] <EagleScreen> I did
[17:53] <EagleScreen> is this bug related to HAL?
[17:58] <Riddell> I don't even know if powerdevil handles brightness buttons
[17:59] <ScottK> The do work on karmic on my mini 10v.
[17:59] <ScottK> The/They
[17:59] <ScottK> Not sure what part does it.
[17:59] <nixternal> ditto
[17:59] <nixternal> they work on my other 2 laptops as well
[18:01] <EagleScreen> my laptop is Acer aspire 2920Z: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/403039
[18:01] <Riddell> ScottK: it could just be done in hardware
[18:01] <ScottK> Riddell: True.
[18:02] <ScottK> Although the similar wifi switch doesn't work, so I'm suspecting not.
[18:02] <nixternal> Riddell: ahh, ya...the hardware keys do not effect powerdevil
[18:02] <EagleScreen> powerdevil plasmoid adjust well the brightness
[18:06] <nixternal> none of these darn images are installing for me...not even alpha 3...alpha 3 chokes at grub installation
[18:07] <allee-k> I try tho find out more about bug 390396.  But  bzr branch https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdebase/ubuntu kdebase-ubuntu   complains method not allowed :(
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> allee-k: try bzr branch lp:~kubuntu-members/kdebase-workspace/ubuntu
[18:09] <EagleScreen> other irritating issue is that X crash in Kubuntu at close session to KDM, Bug #371500
[18:10] <EagleScreen> only with kde, xdm is wrong
[18:10] <Riddell> maco: did you submit http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28641540/kde4libs_4.2.95-0ubuntu2.debdiff to anyone?
[18:10] <Riddell> the second change still contains KGuiItem(i18n("&Abort"))
[18:11] <Riddell> and the first one shouldn't need the i18n("Cancel?"), that's the default
[18:11] <allee-k> JontheEchidna: Thx.  So how about using lp: in   VCS-Bzr:  ?
[18:12] <JontheEchidna> fwiw, bzr branch https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdebase/ubuntu  works for me (tm)
[18:13] <maco> Riddell: dang
[18:15] <allee-k> JontheEchidna: strange. not here.  fwiw: Unable to handle http code 405: Method Not Allowed.   Maybe I'm no kubuntu-member anymore? but lp: worked so lets hunt 390396 :)
[18:16] <JontheEchidna> :)
[18:16]  * JontheEchidna wonders if it works for anyone else
[18:16] <Riddell> maco: how about KGuiItem(i18n("&Abort")) -> KGuiItem(i18n("&Stop Script"))  ?
[18:16] <maco> Riddell: aye
[18:16] <Riddell> maco: groovy, I'll commit that
[18:16] <maco> sorry :(
[18:21] <Riddell> maco: committed!
[18:21] <Riddell> maco: that's them all in now
[18:24] <maco> Riddell: thank you! *hug*
[18:30] <JontheEchidna> btw, what's the status of userconfig?
[18:31] <Riddell> yuriy: ^^ ?
[18:45] <maco> Riddell: wait....crud muffins. did you commit the kdm one? that one wasnt changed to meet ossi's standards yet...and i think there was still debate over where it should be changed to "force quit" or if it should have "force quit" with a message about data loss
[18:47] <Riddell> maco: don't worry, I'm not daft enough to commit to kdm without explicit approval from ossi :)
[18:47] <maco> Riddell: but you committed kdebase stuff in kubuntu
[18:48] <maco> wondering if that was included
[18:48] <Riddell> maco: he committed a couple of the changes to KDM and rejected the rest, so I crabbed the ones he committed for our packages
[18:48] <maco> so we dont not-match
[18:48] <maco> ah ok
[18:48] <Riddell> s/cr/gr/
[18:58] <dajomu> I have and idea, but maybe it already exists. Sometimes it is not possible to boot and load a live-cd and it is difficult to file a bug-report. what about making an option in the boot-menu to verbose all messages to a file on a thumbdrive? Could that be possible or does the usb-drive get detected to late in the boot process?
[19:02] <ScottK> Riddell: Are you going to be able to de-lzma qt4-x11 on armel?  My odds of doing it soonish are low and dropping.
[19:03] <Riddell> wasn't JontheEchidna touching qt4 today?
[19:03] <Riddell> I'm just going out but I'll look at it when get back
[19:03] <JontheEchidna> shell scripting is my secret weakness, so if somebody has some de-lzma'ing script I can integrate it
[19:04] <Riddell> it's not shell scripting.  it's shell scripting mixed with Makefile
[19:04] <Riddell> a combination with all the elegance of objective cobal and none of the simplicity
[19:05] <JontheEchidna> heh
[19:15]  * ryanakca scratches his head and wonder's why Amarok's "We recommend you install blah for added functionality" removes amarok under karmic....
[19:22] <davmor2> Riddell: I'm just checking out kubuntu you still get that authorization dialog on startup of the livecd
[19:56] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: when you get back, I've pushed my changes to https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/qt/ubuntu
[20:10] <davmor2> Guys when you click on the friends tab on the opendesktop.org plasmiod is it meant to shrink to the size of the word friends?
[20:14] <davmor2> Riddell: what's up with the live cd the manifest is dated the 24th on todays image :(
[20:14] <davmor2> 201 updates
[20:32] <Riddell> NCommander: JontheEchidna thinks you're just the man to help with his kgraphviewer problem
[20:32] <Riddell> davmor2: hmm, dunno, I'll look when I get a chance
[20:34] <JontheEchidna> NCommander: if you're interested, my kgraphviewer package is at http://jmthomas.toniox.org/www/kgraphviewer_2.0.2-kde4.3.0-0ubuntu1.dsc , and the FTBFS is http://paste.ubuntu.com/239840/
[20:42] <JontheEchidna> yay, arora drag-n-drop crash confirmed fixed with the patch
[20:56] <seele> Riddell: wow, you've been busy. is that all of mackenzie's patches now?
[20:56] <maco> seele: aye
[20:57] <seele> awesome!
[21:41] <davmor2> ScottK: is there an email set up somewhere with a virus (none harmful of course) that could be used to test that clam-av removes it?  Can't test it right now but it would be useful for testing another time.
[21:53] <neversfelde> davmor2: I am using eicar Testvirus for this
[21:54] <davmor2> neversfelde: ta :)
[23:55] <EagleScreen> what about a ubuntuone-client for Kubuntu?
[23:57] <neversfelde> see Launchpad


[00:02] <SpaceGhostC2C> Hey Pici, pleia2 can you help me with something? It's about the mailing list. I believe at least one of you has helped me before.
[00:02] <Pici> SpaceGhostC2C: The #ubuntu-community-team channel is better suited for discussions regarding that mailing list.  #ubuntu-ops is only in control of Ubutntu's IRC presense.
[00:03] <SpaceGhostC2C> Pici: okay. I'll look there.
[00:03]  * Pici fails spelling
[00:03] <Pici> unpossible
[00:05] <SpaceGhostC2C> pleia2: last time we talked, I think it was about the mailing list and Karl. I was wondering who you talked to about getting him moderated, and if I could talk with them about some abuse?
[00:15] <topyli> SpaceGhostC2C, she hasn't been around all day
[00:16] <SpaceGhostC2C> topyli: she'll eventually get it though, right?
[00:17] <topyli> i suppose
[00:17] <Pici> SpaceGhostC2C: Like I said, the best place to ask and discuss is in #ubuntu-community-team, that way other CC members will see it, not just pleia2.
[00:23] <SpaceGhostC2C> Pici: no doubt, but they seem a bit, umm lost... pleia2 has already helped me before, so I want to get her help again. I don't have permission to PM her, so I kinda am stuck asking here. I don't intend to ask every 5 minutes. Just once was good.
[00:38] <q0k> Hi. I don't understand the purpose of #ubuntu-offtopic channel... Could you please read them and tell me whether they are on-topic?
[00:39] <Pici> q0k: They seem to be within guidelines to me, what is your doubt about the current discussion?
[00:39] <q0k> How is their discussion related to Ubuntu?
[00:40] <Pici> Its not.
[00:41] <q0k> Then they should join #offtopic channel (if there is one) , not should they be at #UBUNTU-offtopic ?
[00:41] <Pici> q0k: Its a place for people to relax and talk outside of the support, development and team channels.
[00:41] <q0k> Right, #offtopic channel would be great for this purpose
[00:41] <Pici> q0k: They are more than free to search out other offtopic channels on this network, we just happen to have our own.
[00:42] <Pici> q0k: You may have arrived here via irc.ubuntu.com, but this is freenode (irc.freenode.net), and not everything here is Ubuntu related.
[00:42] <q0k> Suppose a person has a non-support question about Ubuntu and arrives there, sees that strange talks , gets frightened ... No?
[00:43] <Pici> Why would someone come to #ubuntu-offtopic first, and not #ubuntu ?
[00:44] <q0k> First to #ubuntu , but can have a question like "which color theme of Ubuntu do you like" , this isn't a support question
[00:44] <q0k> He'll be directed to #ubuntu-offtopic
[00:44] <q0k> Then he can get wrong impression about Ubuntu because of these strange talks about strange topics
[00:45] <Pici> q0k: And the topic of -offtopic describes what the channel is for.  Chat in the spirit of Ubuntu.  Its not a support channel, and we're not going to penalize people for talking about non-ubuntu things.
[00:45] <q0k> Where is the SPIRIT of Ubuntu? I don't see it... Am I not right?
[00:47] <Pici> q0k: It means to chat within the guidelines laid out by the Ubuntu Code of Conduct, a friendly atmosphere where people can be comfortable.
[00:47] <q0k> If it's normal what is going there, I have no other questions
[00:47] <Pici> Yes, its normal, sorry for any confusion that we might have caused.
[00:47] <q0k> Thanks! Bye.
[00:48] <Pici> Byas.
[00:48] <Dominian> gotta love 'em for trying to help :)
[00:56] <Pici> 19:54:50 <mc44> If I were creative, I'd photoshop a Pope hat onto popey's head onto popeye's body, caption it "Half Pope. Half  Popeye. Half Beast" and send it to his as a valentines day card
[00:57] <Flannel> I fully endorse that endeavor
[03:57] <Seeker`> nalioth: please PM me when you get the chance
[04:53] <bazhang> daemonfc unbanned in -ot?
[04:57] <bazhang> nope, seems to be ban evading
[05:11] <bazhang> and still at it with the FUD
[05:16] <bazhang> ops for #ubuntu-offtopic please take a check on DaemonFC
[05:23] <Flannel> Not ban evading as much as old-banmask-ing
[05:23] <Flannel> Oh, no, it was moved over.
[05:32] <Flannel> Blargh.
[05:32] <Flannel> My op powahz are failing
[05:35] <Flannel> I can't seem to set a ban
[05:36] <Flannel> Works fine in non-ot channels
[05:36] <bazhang> recyclecorn is the chimpout fellow
[05:39] <Flannel> bazhang: Indeed it is
[05:51] <Flannel> yay PEBKAC
[05:55] <Flannel> Howdy rww, how can we help you?
[05:56] <rww> Flannel: Last I checked, providing instructions for jailbreaking iPods is offtopic for Ubuntu channels. Is that still the case?
[05:57] <Flannel> rww: You're referring to rockbox? or what?
[05:57] <Flannel> Which channel?
[05:57] <rww> #ubuntu+1
[05:57] <Flannel> Ah.  You mean jailbreaking iphones?
[05:58] <rww> I would ask for a topic change, but the last time I pointed out that discussing questionably legal stuff in there is a bad thing, I got snark back.
[05:58] <rww> (from the people having the conversation, that is)
[05:59] <rww> Flannel: the method that they're talking about jailbreaks iPhones as well, yes
[05:59] <Flannel> rww: iphones or ipods?  (jailbreaking isn't usually used with the latter)
[05:59] <rww> but the person who originally asked appears to be talking about an iPod
[05:59] <Flannel> !rockbox
[06:00] <Flannel> we even have a factoid for rockbox, but I have no idea what the deal is with the newfangled ones, so I'm likely out of touch
[06:00] <bazhang> there is a PPA for ifuser that requires zero jailbreaking
[06:02] <rww> oh, there it is
[06:02] <rww> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/01/03/%23ubuntu-ops.html
[06:03] <rww> Anyway, if it's offtopic/questionable/whatever, it was getting discussed in #ubuntu+1. Either way, that channel has a tendency to go offtopic recently, which is maybe something that should be looked at :\
[08:56] <mneptok> tsimpson: MWTC_King is back in #ubuntu after you removed the ban. did you speak with him/her?
[08:56] <tsimpson> mneptok: yes, it was apparently "a joke"
[08:57] <mneptok> tsimpson: funny. like a brain tumor.
[08:58] <mneptok> hm ... that didn't last long.
[08:58] <bazhang> going to mute him next time
[08:58] <mneptok> bazhang is in tiger mode.
[08:59] <Tm_T> *graurrrrr*
[08:59] <bazhang> mneptok, happy new year to you too!  :)
[08:59] <mneptok> bazhang: not to be nosy, but are you married? because i'm not. and it's red envelope time ....  ;)
[08:59] <Tm_T> happy sunday to all
[08:59] <tsimpson> well he said he read the rules I linked
[09:00] <bazhang> mneptok, you forgot the last quartet of gong xi fa cai  (hong bao na lai )  :)
[09:00] <mneptok> bazhang: and, of course, i'm kidding. you may deny me an envelope with no ill affects in the coming year. :)
[09:01] <bazhang> well its usually younger give to older, so no way I can give to you :)
[09:01] <mneptok> bazhang: i'm lucky to remember as little simplified Mandarin as i do.
[09:01] <bazhang> hehe
[09:01] <mneptok> bazhang: i'm pretty sure i'm older than you are
[09:01] <bazhang> mneptok, seriously doubt that :)
[09:02] <mneptok> bazhang: 44
[09:02] <bazhang> mneptok, got you beat by 4
[09:02] <bazhang> well soon enough
[09:02] <mneptok> bazhang: i don't believe you. cut off your leg so i can count the rings.
[09:02] <bazhang> mneptok, hehe
[09:05] <mneptok> bazhang: i guess we both now qualify for "您多大年纪"  :/
[09:06] <bazhang> mneptok, nah, Chinese don't call you an adult until you have gone through 5 cycles of the Chinese Animals, ie 12 animals x 5 = 60 years old
[09:07] <mneptok> bazhang: ah. yes. i forgot it was tied to the animals.
[09:07] <mneptok> bazhang: tiger year may be difficult for me. i am a yin wood snake.
[09:08] <bazhang> mneptok, I'd have to look it up :)
[09:43] <Pricey> Could I have a rundown on recent issues in #ubuntuforums please and reactive actions taken?
[09:44] <Tm_T> Pricey: noone wanted to be an op there, now there's ops
[09:45] <Pricey> Tm_T: From what I can see, there's the same set of ops tehre as there's always been.
[09:45] <Pricey> Maybe one extra addition outside the normal set.
[09:45] <Tm_T> ok, I don't know more than that
[09:45] <Pricey> That isn't the question I asked anyway.
[10:14] <elky> ikonia, ping
[10:14] <elky> bacta's game is over in #u
[10:18] <Bacta> meesa banned :(
[10:18] <elky> I can't even begin to imagine how you're going to try explain yourself now.
[10:18] <Bacta> I didn't do it
[10:23] <ikonia> conversation over
[10:24] <Bacta> come on ikonia
[10:24] <Bacta> we need to find a "way forward"
[10:24] <ikonia> please leave the channel
[10:24] <Bacta> to use your words
[10:24] <ikonia> the way forward is your banned
[10:24] <Bacta> yeah well you can get fucked XD
[10:24] <ikonia> perfect.
[10:25] <Myrtti> so much for that "i'll contribute constructively"
[10:25] <elky> he's had more chances than i have hairs on my head
[10:25] <ikonia> he never said that, it's just more backing that something needs to be done about him
[10:26] <elky> he's only a matter of inches away from regressing to his play on the M release name.
[10:26] <Tm_T> he is in -women still
[10:27] <elky> noted.
[10:27] <ikonia> Tm_T: and in my opinion should be removed, I was planning to raise this at the IRCCC meeting but we ran out of time
[10:27] <elky> transferring bans from one channel to another is really not a done thing
[10:27] <ikonia> the whole name space is what needs to happen
[10:27] <Tm_T> sure
[10:27] <tsimpson> ikonia: surely it's a matter for the ops of -women
[10:27] <ikonia> no
[10:27] <ikonia> it's not
[10:28] <Tm_T> tsimpson: it's not that simple
[10:28] <ikonia> it's beyond that now
[10:28] <tsimpson> we can ban in core channels, but we can't realistically ban throughout the entire namespace
[10:28] <ikonia> no, I understand that
[10:29] <elky> It's easier now that the likelihood of being chastised for banning spammers there has reduced recently. he just needs to do something visible.
[10:29] <ikonia> a new channel springs up every day, so that's understandable, but the ones with large numbers that get a large disruption by him being a constant issue need to be controlled
[10:29] <jussi01> Im still very much of the view that if he behaves himself in $channel, he can be there.
[10:29] <Tm_T> jussi01: even if he is there just to cause disturbance?
[10:30] <jussi01> Tm_T: how is he causing disturbance?
[10:30] <ikonia> jussi01: really, even though he's admited to me he's only there to upset elky by making her feel uncomfortable
[10:30] <elky> jussi01, well yes, and providing he doesn't PM harass someone about being able to be there, like he's been doing to ikonia the last fortnight
[10:30] <ikonia> jussi01: is that behaving yourself ?
[10:30] <ikonia> at what point do we actually start to look out for the community
[10:30] <ikonia> what value is this guy to the commnutiy other than taking up time policing his 200+ bans ?
[10:30] <Tm_T> jussi01: also he's been borderlining few occasions, he never talks about the actual topic of the channel and...
[10:30] <elky> ikonia, s/looking out/being proactive/ you mean?
[10:31] <ikonia> elky: the guy openly admits he's there to be an issue, in every ubuntu channel, why put every channel through the weekly cycle of walk on the edge of problem, cross the line, ban, remove, repeat
[10:31] <jussi01> PM issues you need to take to freenode. if he acts out in the channel, then its an issue for the chanops.
[10:31] <ikonia> ok, I'll raise this as an issue to the council then
[10:32] <elky> jussi01, freenode gave him his cloak back while he was actively trolling.
[10:32] <tsimpson> if he makes people in the channel uncomfortable, the ops there should act (IMHO)
[10:32] <ikonia> at some point common sense has to kick in about the interst of the community
[10:32] <elky> tsimpson, he makes around half a dozen people there uncomfortable because he used to harass the linuxchix server
[10:32] <Tm_T> jussi01: just to make this clear, I'm not saying this should be general rule, but he is only negative value in that channel, keeps me and others in the edge there, I see no single reason why _he_ should be there other than causing issues
[10:33] <tsimpson> so why don't the ops ban him?
[10:33] <elky> tsimpson, that's the problem. he's a past aggressor. it's like being stuck in a room with someone who used to make abusive phone calls because he's not currently holding a phone
[10:33] <Tm_T> tsimpson: because he haven't done "enough bad things lately"
[10:33] <ikonia> Tm_T: I want to put in place the opposite of !appeals where persistant long term problem users who have no intention of particiapating go through evaluation for removal from the "core" channels to stop the persistnat disruption and cycle of ban/remove/ban/remove
[10:34] <elky> he's now in +1
[10:34] <Tm_T> ikonia: sounds reasonable if used with extreme care
[10:34] <elky> he's doing it specifically to taunt
[10:34] <ikonia> Tm_T: I agree
[10:34] <tsimpson> Tm_T: it's a team channel, they get to decide who should and should not be there. if bacta feels so strongly about being there, he can follow the appeals process
[10:34] <ikonia> tsimpson: I could only see 2 - 3 times ever this could have been used
[10:34] <ikonia> tsimpson: the appeals process will allow him back in
[10:34] <ikonia> because he's done nothing "at this moment"
[10:35] <tsimpson> you don't know that
[10:35] <ikonia> being realistic about it
[10:35] <ikonia> following the exact letter of applying a ban
[10:35] <tsimpson> we'd take into account previous behaviour
[10:36] <tsimpson> and because -women is a team channel, we would need a very good reason to override them
[10:36] <ikonia> ok, so you're saying common sense is the method, not the letter of the ban placement
[10:36] <ikonia> that's a new approach
[10:37] <tsimpson> there is a reason that humans are there for appeals, rather than a python script
[10:37] <ikonia> (I don't mean applying common sense is new, more that history would be considered rather than the actual ban)
[10:37] <ikonia> tsimpson: yes, but in the past it's always been reviewed as an appeal for that ban at that moment, rather than a ban and the reason behind the ban
[10:37] <Tm_T> tsimpson: so you're saying that if <op> bans him now, applying process would look his previous behaviour in whole freenode, no matter what was the reason of this particular ban?
[10:37] <tsimpson> ikonia: maybe if it was #ubuntu, but not a team channel
[10:37] <elky> ikonia, -women was included in the core at the request of lyz.
[10:38] <ikonia> elky: I don't believe it's included in core yet
[10:38] <Tm_T> elky: included?
[10:38] <ikonia> tsimpson: why would ubuntu be different ?
[10:38] <Tm_T> elky: it's been asked to include but no decision have been made yet
[10:38] <ikonia> tsimpson: surly the users past behaviour (if that is the reason for the ban) would be just as valid as -women
[10:38] <elky> ikonia, i'm pretty sure that was agreed on when I was still IRCC
[10:38] <ikonia> meeting last night suggested otherwise
[10:38] <elky> i recall having a vote about it.
[10:38] <tsimpson> ikonia: because, we are directly responsible for #ubuntu, we are the point of contact. not so with -women
[10:38] <jussi01> elky: no it wasnt.
[10:39] <ikonia> look, bactas just been banned from #ubuntu, straight away joins +1 to flaunt it
[10:39] <elky> ikonia, the -women join was post ban too
[10:42] <Tm_T> I mean, really, we have to discuss about this guy all the time
[10:43] <Tm_T> so we need procedure to handle this kind of situations
[10:43] <Tm_T> and he is in -irc too btw
[10:48] <ikonia> Tm_T: that's what I was looking for, a procedure to evaluate in very serious cases and be proactive towards the community as a whole rather than following the set ban/remove/repeat procedure
[10:48] <ikonia> and now he's pm'ing me
[10:48] <ikonia> bang on queue
[10:48] <ikonia> que even
[10:48] <Myrtti> cue
[10:49] <Myrtti> :->
[10:49] <ikonia> thank you
[10:49] <ikonia> and bragging about it in ##club-ubuntu
[10:49]  * Myrtti puts a stamp in her calendar
[10:49] <Myrtti> :->
[10:50] <elky> ikonia, oh ye gads. that's a thought i don't want.
[10:51] <Tm_T> happy sunday to all (:)
[11:02] <bazhang> happy valentines day and Chinese New Year
[11:07] <ikonia> hello vish
[11:07] <vish> hi..
[11:07] <ikonia> just thought I'd respond to you're question in here as to not disrupt the channel (I know it's quiet)
[11:07] <ikonia> if a user miss-behaves, they don't get banned from all channels, just the one they are in
[11:07] <vish> sure... so the question on +1 was just my curiosity
[11:08] <vish> ah k..
[11:08] <ikonia> you are correct though, that user has been a problem in multiple channels on multiple occasions, but currently there no process in place to resolve that issue
[11:08] <ikonia> his ban wasn't a result of that though,
[11:08] <vish> ikonia: ah , cool thanks :)
[11:09]  * vish jumps out of channels before being told to..
[11:09] <vish> bye all :)
[11:09] <ikonia> no problem
[11:09] <ikonia> just wanted to be clear
[11:09] <ikonia> bye
[11:09] <vish> thanks..
[11:09] <ikonia> for the record bacta is complining in club-ubuntu that I banned him for no reason
[11:10] <ikonia> the threat of additional trolling in pm is why I banned him combined with his recenty activity and past behaviour.
[11:10] <ikonia> if you wish to remove the ban, please do so,
[11:11] <ikonia> now threatening to get Mark Shuttleworth involved.
[11:11] <tsimpson> pre-emptive banning is not something we encourage, if he acts up in +1 we should act
[11:12] <ikonia> great
[11:12] <ikonia> after all I've just said,
[11:13] <tsimpson> ikonia: we need to be consistent, then he can't claim that we don't even abide by our own guidelines
[11:13] <ikonia> there is no guide lines for this ?
[11:13] <ikonia> the guy is threatening more behaviour in pm to me ?
[11:13] <ikonia> do I ignore that
[11:13] <ikonia> keep in mind the guys history
[11:14] <ikonia> never mind, remove the ban
[11:14] <ikonia> you deal with him
[11:15] <tsimpson> see the "Don't retaliate" section of the op guidelines
[11:15] <bazhang> chelz, hi
[11:15] <chelz> hi
[11:15] <ikonia> it's not a retaliation
[11:15] <bazhang> chelz, how can we help you
[11:15] <chelz> yeah i came here over the issue of banning Bacta from #ubuntu+1 and wanted to know the legality of banning a user from an ubuntu channel based on actions outside of that channel.
[11:15] <tsimpson> ikonia: but if someone were to look at the logs, it may seem like it
[11:16] <chelz> i would hope it's not legal but i want to know what the prevailing interpretation is.
[11:16] <tsimpson> chelz: he knows that he needs to ask himself to be unbanned
[11:16] <tsimpson> we will not discuss it with others
[11:17] <chelz> oh ok. so not talking about that one instance, but talking in general about any instance of doing something outside of a channel and having a ban placed on a user by an op in an ubuntu channel, is that legal or illegal?
[11:17] <chelz> or i guess 'case-by-case'?
[11:18] <tsimpson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines lists our guidelines
[11:19] <chelz> ah. i guess it's a balance between "Ban on sight" and "Don't retaliate"
[11:19] <chelz> so 'case-by-case'
[11:20] <chelz> perhaps something that might be a good idea to put in place could be a system of somekind for determining "really abusive users", maybe in a similar method to how wikipedia reaches consensus
[11:20] <chelz> just a suggestion :)
[11:21] <Myrtti> it's on the works
[11:21] <ikonia> chelz: I've raised that myself
[11:21] <chelz> oh that's good to hear
[11:22] <chelz> the more formal the method, the more clearly justification for marking users as 'really abusive users' can be made. to me it's definitely a good idea.
[11:22] <chelz> alright. have a happy valentines day all. :)
[12:03] <ikonia> !logs
[12:12] <Tm_T> !away > b2ag
[12:13]  * jpds plays with gb.archive.
[12:13] <ikonia> as in the repo ?
[12:44] <bazhang> anita has been doing that for several hours now, pretending not to understand that there is an #ubuntu-es
[12:57] <ikonia> forwaded her to -es for an hour or so, see if she gets it
[12:58] <bazhang> thanks ikonia
[14:30] <ShawnRisk> I am curious why java users are banned from #ubuntu?
[14:31] <ikonia> ShawnRisk: to stop it being used as a spam tool
[14:31] <Myrtti> most proxy users are
[14:31] <ShawnRisk> has that happened before?
[14:31] <ikonia> ShawnRisk: when you join ubuntu you should be forwaded to ubuntu-proxy-users where if you read the topic you'll gain access to ubuntu
[14:32] <ShawnRisk> I am not
[14:33] <ShawnRisk> I am using the java irc client on freenode's site
[14:34] <ikonia> Hmmm I thought you should have got forwaded
[14:34] <ShawnRisk> nope
[14:34] <ikonia> show try joining ubuntu-proxy-users
[14:34] <ShawnRisk> I have to go
[14:35] <ShawnRisk> thanks for the info
[16:08] <MenZa> Has someone looked at Bahrain in #u yet?
[16:08] <MenZa> [2010-02-14 16:05:45 GMT]  #ubuntu: < Soul_Shadow> !Ops Bahbrain Join Pm Spammer..
[16:08] <Tm_T> MenZa: I don't get any spam
[16:08] <MenZa> Me neither, hmm.
[16:08]  * MenZa shrugs.
[16:31] <ikonia> !ops ban list is full
[16:31] <ikonia> oughh !!!!
[16:31] <ikonia> no
[16:31] <ikonia> !ops
[16:31] <ikonia> ban list is full
[16:32] <Tm_T> ikonia: nice new factoid :-P
[16:32] <ikonia> doh !
[16:32]  * jrib has 0 bans, just cleared yesterday
[16:33] <jrib> !ops ban list
[16:33] <jrib> :)
[16:33] <Tm_T> so true
[16:34] <ikonia> !!!!
[16:35] <ikonia> !forget !ops ban list
[16:35] <ikonia> really ?
[16:35] <Tm_T> ikonia: drop second !
[16:35] <ikonia> oops
[16:35] <ikonia> !forget ops ban list
[16:35] <ikonia> well spotted
[16:35] <ikonia> thank you
[16:36] <Tm_T> n
[16:37] <bazhang> is idoru setting bans when it kills?
[16:37] <jrib> idoru?
[16:37] <bazhang> the new bot in freenode servers
[16:37] <jrib> oh
[16:38] <Tm_T> no idea
[16:38] <bazhang> anyone spamming more than 6 or so lines is Killed
[17:23] <Myrtti> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f1e2740cc
[17:25] <Myrtti> cmon ubottu....
[17:25] <Myrtti> !test
[17:26] <Tm_T> Myrtti: no paste.ubuntu.com?
[17:26] <Myrtti> Tm_T: I haven't fixed it to do paste.ubuntu.com again yet
[17:27] <Tm_T> ah, roger
[17:32] <Tm_T> tsimpson: whats the situation with new bantracker?
[17:35] <Myrtti> ok, I'll do the quiets now
[17:40] <Myrtti> bazhang, tsimpson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/376321/
[17:41] <Myrtti> !ops | volunteers to clear out verne bans from http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f1e2740cc ??
[17:42] <Myrtti> I can do about twenty or so from the beginning, but having someone else do it too would really help me to not get too pissed off at it...
[17:42] <jrib> why don't we just script this?
[17:43] <jrib> I mean, I'm asking if there is a reason other than "no one has done it"
[17:43] <Myrtti> jrib: thanks, but I'd rather not be replaced by a very small shell script. I *never* remove any bans without checking from bantracker
[17:44] <jrib> idk, I'd rather have a shell script replace me if it means I have to do less tedious work :)
[17:47] <Myrtti> jrib: it also seems you just volunteered to make some script.
[17:47] <jrib> Myrtti: after my movie
[17:51] <Myrtti> intresting that @113.199.*
[17:57] <Myrtti> meh
[17:57] <Myrtti> Error: Can not create a mark for '*!*@12.
[18:15] <ikonia> trying to talk to sebsebseb about pm'ing people to use mandriva
[18:16] <Myrtti> is he *really* doing that?
[18:16] <ikonia> trying to find out
[18:16] <ikonia> it's not the first time, but I was confident he's not do it again
[18:17] <Pricey> How do you know he's been doing that ikonia?
[18:17] <ikonia> he's done it in the past and admited it
[18:17] <ikonia> although I /think/ it was slackware and not mandriva, but not %100 certain
[18:18] <Pricey> yeah i don't think that's important..
[18:18] <Myrtti> as long as he's not suggesting gentoo...
[18:18] <ikonia> he doesn't appear active at the moment, so it may be nonsense
[18:18] <Myrtti> *cough*
[18:18] <ikonia> he may be suggesting it with a genuine reason, eg: it may suit your needs better, which is fine in my view
[18:18] <Myrtti> no, but really, I should try gentoo sometime. When I've learned how to really compile stuff.
[18:18] <ikonia> he may not be doing it at all
[18:18] <ikonia> Myrtti: you've leant how to type emerge you mean
[18:18] <Pricey> How come you're trying to get involved?
[18:18] <Myrtti> yeah, might be mindvirus' idea of fun joke
[18:19] <ikonia> Pricey: involved in what ?
[18:19] <Pricey> this sebsebseb maybe PMing people thing
[18:19] <ikonia> because he's done it a lot in the past
[18:19] <Pricey> but why now?
[18:20] <ikonia> do you find it appropriate someone sat in #ubuntu saying "use mandriva"
[18:20] <Pricey> what's happenned?
[18:20] <ikonia> mindvirus in the channel said sebsebseb pm'd him saying "use mandriva instead"
[18:20] <ikonia> so I'm trying to find out if a.) that's true b.) the reasonsing behind it
[18:20] <ikonia> it may be utterly nothing
[18:20] <Pricey> I think it'd be best if you did something else.
[18:20] <ikonia> however sebsebseb has a history of doing pm stuff to users in the channel
[18:20] <ikonia> Pricey: why ?
[18:20] <Pricey> There must be a multitude of more useful things you could be doing.
[18:21] <Pricey> I hope that's a word.
[18:21] <ikonia> err, sending a pm asking ?
[18:21] <ikonia> it's a 30 second task
[18:21] <Pricey> sure, the PM is...
[18:21] <Pricey> however what it could provoke...
[18:21] <ikonia> provoke what ?
[18:21] <ikonia> if he's done nothing or done it with a reason, it's not a problem
[18:21] <ikonia> which he may well have done
[18:22] <ikonia> or in your view is it acceptable behaviour ?
[18:22] <Pricey> I think its perfectly acceptable, and don't see any reason to interfere with other user's PMs.
[18:23] <Pricey> If mindvirus was being harrassed etc. etc. then he should do more than just mention it in #ubuntu
[18:23] <Pricey> he could let you know the details or ignore sebsebseb or something
[18:23] <Pricey> i don't think this is an important issue though..
[18:23] <ikonia> he didn't say he was being harraessed, but asking for advice and getting a pm saying use mandriva doesn't seem right,
[18:23] <ikonia> I don't think it's an important issue, that's why I just sent him a pm
[18:23]  * Pricey headdesks
[18:23] <Pricey> lets move on
[18:23] <Pricey> bigger fish to fry and all that
[18:24] <ikonia> there is no one to fry
[18:24] <Pricey> oh dear god
[18:24] <ikonia> what now?
[18:24] <Myrtti> look, a flying cake!
[18:24] <Pricey> its just a saying.... there's no reason to take "fry" literally.
[18:24] <ikonia> I wasn't
[18:24] <Pricey> I don't actually think that sebsebseb has gills.
[18:25] <Pricey> That would be quite cool though, imagine having gills.
[18:25] <Pricey> They could make a tv show out of that.
[18:29] <ikonia> ok, sebsebseb was a bit out of line to mindvirus in pm, but he's agreed (again) to stop doing it, he pasted a log and mindvirus asked him to stop and he kept pushing mandriva,
[18:29] <ikonia> not a big deal though
[18:29] <Pricey> You could tell mindvirus about /ignore too?
[18:29] <ikonia> he did
[18:30] <ikonia> the conversation ended with "piss off" and he put him on ignore
[18:33] <ikonia> sebsebseb seems quite happy, he gets a hard time pm'ing people rather than talking in the channel and thinks it's probably best to stop any how
[18:33] <ikonia> which is pretty believable as I said earlier he's had a history of bad pm advice
[18:34] <Myrtti> and in the end the hero got half the kingdom and a princess to marry, and they all lived happily ever after.
[18:34] <ikonia> I think he regreted offering help in pm as soon as he hit "send"
[18:36] <Amaranth> or he is just saying that to you so he can keep doing it
[18:36] <ikonia> no, I don't think he was
[18:37] <ikonia> he seems really genuine about trying to get involved and just keeps getting keen/caught up pm'ing people, (I mentioned earlier he's had a hard time with it in the past) and seemed to regret it as soon as mindvirus responded
[19:16] <Myrtti> I think that was quite skillful line
[19:30] <Tm_T> Myrtti: some banforward?
[19:50] <Myrtti> whutwhere?
[19:51] <Myrtti> no
[20:40] <topyli> !pae
[20:41] <MenZa> !pie
[20:42] <gord> !pye
[20:45] <Myrtti> night night
[20:51] <ikonia> night gord
[20:52] <gord> but i don't want to goto bed yet :(
[20:54] <Flannel> gord: use break instead!
[20:58] <Tm_T> brake
[20:58] <ikonia> for no-one
[21:09] <tonyyarusso> ubottu's having some performance issues again it seems, eh?
[21:10] <ikonia> been a little slow all day
[21:10]  * tonyyarusso checks timestamps
[21:11] <tonyyarusso> !info openoffice.org lucid
[21:11] <tonyyarusso> Not too bad that time, but still non-optimal.
[23:10] <JrodDCx> ikonia: Hey Hows it been?
[23:10] <ikonia> ?
[23:11] <ikonia> JrodDCx: can I help ?
[23:11] <JrodDCx> This is JayCool
[23:11] <ikonia> oh yes
[23:11] <ikonia> hello
[23:11] <ikonia> apologies wasn't paying full attention
[23:12] <JrodDCx> no problems
[23:12] <JrodDCx> once again im very sorry about the whole ordeal
[23:13] <ikonia> well, you seem to have been away and not caused an issue so as long as your confident you can get on with the rules in ubuntu, I've got no issue lifting the ban for you
[23:14] <JrodDCx> Thanks Alot , there will be no more issues
[23:14] <ikonia> I have no doubt, hang on a moment, I'm on an unfamiler keyboard and I'm not massivly quick with it
[23:16] <JrodDCx> oh No Problems. Thanks
[23:16] <ikonia> ok, you should be ok to join, want to give it ago (I may have missed a ban from when you tried to evade)
[23:17] <JrodDCx> ok thanks i'll try
[23:17] <ikonia> ok, it seems your in ok
[23:18] <JrodDCx> Yeah Looks like it works Thanks alot :)
[23:18] <ikonia> any problems re-join here and let us know, as I may well have missed one (I'm sure there was 3 bans)
[23:18] <ikonia> but you seem good to go
[23:18] <JrodDCx> cool thanks dude
[23:18] <ikonia> no problem


[01:38] <eternal> stupid people
[01:44] <ibeardslee> ?
[01:47] <snail> anyone know the scoop on language codes for New Zealand Sign Language?
[01:56] <ibeardslee> snail: the scoop? is that like in terms of new news?
[01:56] <ibeardslee> or just what the current state is?
[01:58] <ojwb> wikipedia has ISO 639-2 and 639-3 codes listed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Sign_Language
[02:04] <snail> ojwb: yes, alas the library community appears to be completely unaware of these
[02:15] <Atamira> ive always wanted to learn more sign language
[02:27] <snail> Atamira: we have tertiary level sources in sign language here, sign up and get credit
[02:27] <snail> s/sources/courses/
[02:28] <Atamira> its a matter of time snail
[02:28] <Atamira> between working midnights, and sleeping
[02:28] <Atamira> i rarely have much time to do anything
[02:28] <Atamira> and cause i have interrupted sleep most times
[02:28] <Atamira> im always having naps
[02:29] <snail> up here, they're called 'lectures'
[02:36] <Atamira> the closest place to me would be aut..or kelson
[02:36] <Atamira> which is on the other side of town
[18:29] <ibeardslee> morning
[18:30] <ajmitch> morning
[18:53] <Atamira> mornin
[19:43] <chilts> morning
[20:42] <ojwb> morning
[21:14] <snail> morena
[21:15] <mwhudson> morning
[22:49] <hads> Morning
[23:08] <hads> Yay, no more IPv4 :)
[23:09] <ibeardslee> you've moved all your stuff IPv6?
[23:09] <ibeardslee> including phones? ;)
[23:09] <hads> I was actually referring to this; http://www.apnic.net/publications/news/2011/delegation
[23:10] <ibeardslee> oh yeah .. you got the smiley face at the top?
[23:10] <hads> But, there are a couple of phones (Yealink, snom) which support IPv6 and FreeSWITCH does.
[23:10] <ojwb> the end of the world seems a more drawn out process than I'd expected
[23:11] <hads> heh
[23:11] <ajmitch> so I guess we should start moving to IPv6 in the next 5-10 years then?
[23:12] <ojwb> let's not be hasty
[23:12] <ojwb> you'll be saying we should use 4 digit years next
[23:12] <ajmitch> what a silly suggestion
[23:13] <ibeardslee> as long as people can adjust when they decide to use my birthdate as the start point
[23:14] <ajmitch> it was so fun importing data last week when it spanned from 1920 to 2005, all with 2-digit years
[23:15] <ojwb> ok, how about we move over gradually
[23:15] <ojwb> 3 digit years to start with, then moving to 4 if that goes ok
[23:16] <ajmitch> I doubt that the dsl modem that I bought only last year supports ipv6, I wonder which ISPs will start providing ipv6 on dsl


[13:28] <meena> I've been invited to the canonical org again!
[13:28] <Odd_Bloke> meena: powersj: Yep, it was so we could request you as a reviewer; we're adding you back ATM.
[13:29] <Odd_Bloke> (Our IS department are introducing automation to sync LDAP and GitHub to ease starter/leaver tasks; you just need adding to an allowlist. :)
[16:32] <Odd_Bloke> https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/493 is no longer WIP, and is ready for review/landing.
[17:42] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: rharper: Given ds-identify should mean that we only use the OpenStack DS when we should expect a response, https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/501 seems like a reasonable change; any thoughts?
[18:02] <smoser> so current behavior is it will try once, with a socket timeout of 10 seconds ?
[18:02] <smoser> before ditching it?
[18:04] <smoser> non-intel is an issue
[18:24] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: I wonder if we should order the 90_dpkg.cfg datsource_list by increasing timeout?   for non-intel, they are trying all ds ; NoCloud, ConfigDrive, OpenNebula, DO, Azure, AltCld, OVF, MAAS, GCE before openstack ;   for intel they'll head right for it (and not trying anything else);
[18:34] <Odd_Bloke> Oh, because non-Intel don't (necessarily) have DMI data?
[18:37] <rharper> correct
[18:38] <rharper> so it's a maybe and you don't get the short list
[18:39] <rharper> beyond optimization; for non-ds id paths;  the change seems fine; though going from 10 to 120 is a big jump for timeouts;    but generally I don't think there's anything wrong with the change;
[20:45] <smoser> its hard... because the truth is, if your metadata service isn't there, its because you have a failed cloud.
[20:46] <smoser> in the past 10 years, i have never seen ec2 metadata service down.
[20:46] <smoser> but, imo because of bad design, every openstack has issues with terribly slow metadata service.
[20:47] <smoser> so one par tof me says "sure, change cloud-init to work better on your little toy"
[20:47] <smoser> and the other part says "fix your silly cloud."
[20:48] <smoser> but we do not want a larrge timeout on non-intel unless there is only one datasource in the list.
[21:06] <rharper> smoser: we had a similar discussion around ipv6 imds for openstack ...   without a non-networky way to know whether it's worth waiting or not; you just end up waiting;