 It uses encrypted /boot/ so GRUB needs its cryptodisk/luks/etc... modules built into core image (grubx64.efi), but for some reasons despite my keep on removing them, upgrades reinstall the -signed- Canonical packages which don't contain those modules (despite my reporting the bug about 2 years ago!) and they replace the locally built grubx64.efi. If the device reboots it cannot access the
[04:41] <TJ-> /grub/ file-system, and as it's a tablet-ish format has only 1 USB port, which has to have the USB keyboard attached (because the Bluetooth detachable keyboard isn't accessible at this point)
[04:41] <TJ-> Got hit by this previously and removed all traces of the -signed- GRUB packages, but seems they've come back.
[04:41] <TJ-> Cannot recall now how I managed to get past it either, grrr
[04:42] <lotuspsychje> sounds like a job for eric
[04:43] <TJ-> Looks like I have to get it to boot into a USB install directly that already has the Bluetooth keyboard authorised
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> whats the device brand TJ-
[04:44] <TJ-> This is my Asus T300CHI
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> lets c
[04:47] <TJ-> The model makes no difference; this is an Ubuntu problem due to -signed- GRUB packages getting reinstalled and over-writing the locally created grubx64.efi
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2289159
[04:50] <lotuspsychje> http://www.jfwhome.com/2016/01/04/latest-steps-to-install-ubuntu-on-the-asus-t100ta/
[04:59] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: bug abandoned for 2y lol classic
[05:00] <lotuspsychje> breakfast first
[05:00] <TJ-> That's core Ubuntu all over nowadays... devops chasing the shiny new rather than engineers securing the foundations
[05:01] <lotuspsychje> indeed
[05:01] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: should be divided in teams
[05:02] <lotuspsychje> maybe they think volunteers chasing bugs enough :p
[05:03] <TJ-> It is, but as far as I can see the old-time Debian engineering-minded developers have moved on and haven't been replaced. E.g. Colin Watson used to be the God of GRUB, he's also a GRUB project committer, but he resigned from that in 2014 I think it was... and no one at Canonical has stepped up
[05:04] <lotuspsychje> alot of new effort needed in IOT these days
[05:04] <lotuspsychje> have you looked at canonical vacancys lol?
[05:04] <TJ-> It's the same across the board. Ubiquity installer is so fragile now he's moved on no-one dare touch it, and we know what happened with the server version of it (subiquity)
[05:04] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: mostly cloud devops and oem sales/support
[05:05] <lotuspsychje> https://www.canonical.com/careers/all-vacancies
[05:05] <lotuspsychje> cloud engineers what a list
[05:06] <lotuspsychje> brb
[05:06] <TJ-> right, more and more I consider going back to Debian
[05:51] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: i still like ubuntu's vanilla ease and phylosophy
[05:52] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: but as you say a solid foundation is to be cared for, on every Os
[05:53] <TJ-> yay! managed to build a custom grubx64.efi inside an LXD container on this BIOS-based system, stick it on a USB storage device as /EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI, and use the EFI setup to add it as an entry to the bootmenu on there. From that I was able to unlock the LUKS /boot/, reset root= and prefix= correctly, and do "insmod normal", "normal" to bring up the system's usual boot menu
[05:53] <lotuspsychje> nice one TJ- did you add it to the bug story
[05:53] <TJ-> as this channel is logged I'll copy the command I used to build the grub EFI file
[05:53] <lotuspsychje> morning guiverc
[05:53] <TJ-> No I didn't but I shall
[05:54] <TJ-> grub-mkimage -v -p /boot -o /boot/efi/EFI/UBUNTU/grubx64.efi -O x86_64-efi part_gpt fat ext2 efi_gop cryptodisk luks gcry_rijndael gcry_sha1 usb usbms usb_keyboard efifwsetup efinet iso9660 help gcry_sha256 loopback lsefi lsefimmap lsefisystab lvm mdraid09 mdraid1x part_msdos ntfs ntfscomp squash4 tftp http udf ufs1 ufs2 exfat ehc
[05:54] <TJ-> i uhci cat
[05:54] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[05:58] <guiverc> howdy lotuspsychje
[06:02] <lotuspsychje> seems like the spammers gone to sleep?
[06:02] <mwsb> Let's hope so.
[06:02] <mwsb> Hasn't been anything in my channels for a while now.
[06:02] <lotuspsychje> mwsb: wich are your channels?
[06:03] <mwsb> 55 or so random channels. I'm not really going to enumerate them all, but a few of them have been pretty god targets for the last week or so (due to decent size user base and minimum ops)
[06:03] <mwsb> s/god/good
[06:03] <lotuspsychje> kk
[06:04] <lotuspsychje> lets hope they release lts upgrade path now, so we can build up some more users
[06:04] <mwsb> guiverc: Aussie though
[06:06] <mwsb> Ahh, unfortunately they are back
[06:06] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:06] <guiverc> aussie?  aussie; wanna vegemite sandwich?
[06:07] <mwsb> No
[06:08] <guiverc> sorry - i didn't recognize who you were mwsb ... i finally got around to clicking your name & recognizing ....
[06:09] <mwsb> Ouch, I'm sorry you recognise me.
[06:09] <mwsb> lotuspsychje: ##guitar just got hit again - I guess the other channels have +r'd up :(
[06:11] <lotuspsychje> maybe they wakeup on this timezone
[06:11] <lotuspsychje> they were in discuss here aswell and has -r now
[06:11] <mwsb> They've also hit #-ops since, so
[06:12] <lotuspsychje> mwsb: lol guitar gives auto op to users?
[06:12] <mwsb> Yeah :/
[06:12] <lotuspsychje> the bots too? :p
[06:12] <ducasse> good morning
[06:12] <mwsb> Yep
[06:13] <lotuspsychje> not the greatest idea
[06:13] <lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
[06:14] <mwsb> lotuspsychje: Hey, we're guitar players, not smart people.
[06:15] <lotuspsychje> mwsb: you want the auto voice chanserv command?
[06:15] <mwsb> Nah
[06:23] <Guest32399> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[06:23] <Guest32399> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[06:23] <Guest32399> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[06:24] <mwsb> Ouch
[06:24] <mwsb> lotuspsychje: I blame you!
[06:24] <TJ-> I think writing up how to fix the failed signed EFI boot took longer than fixing it!
[06:24] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:24] <lotuspsychje> there we go again mwsb
[06:28] <acheronuk> there is not much of that spam in here compared to some of the channels
[06:28] <lotuspsychje> weird acheronuk
[06:31] <acheronuk> a lot of core chans are now +r. but it was weird which got spammed more even before that
[06:31] <acheronuk> maybe I expect people who ultimately drive the bots to have more brains than they deserve credit for
[06:33] <lotuspsychje> acheronuk: the way i see it, botnet spamming is always a risk and pretty dumb thing to do...
[06:33] <lotuspsychje> so not sure if they can 'outsmart' much
[06:34] <mwsb> My project at the moment concerns botnets
[06:34] <acheronuk> lotuspsychje: yeah, don't get me wrong. we are dealing with a sliding scale on dumbass here. I realise that
[06:35] <mwsb> But don't really have a use-case for this particular scenario.
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> acheronuk: :p
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> mwsb: im interested, whats your project about?
[06:36] <mwsb> Ummm, I can't really tell you much more.
[06:36] <lotuspsychje> dont worry, we are also in a logged channel here so
[07:15] <CGML23> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[07:41] <ced1174> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[07:41] <PKBot3> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[07:55] <EriC^^> morning all
[07:58] <TJ-> G'morning
[08:30] <ptx029> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[09:53] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[09:58] <lotuspsychje> hey there BluesKaj
[10:04] <BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
[10:06] <lotuspsychje> patato salad with ham & haricots for lunch here
[10:08] <BluesKaj> mmm, sounds good !
[11:52] <tomreyn> TJ-: not being able to lock the screen and having to restart X whenever i leave the computer for some minutes on this ubuntu 16.04 system was getting on my nerves, so i just installed ubuntu-desktop in addition to the previously installed xubuntu-desktop, as well as gdm3 in addition to lightdm, and made gdm3  the default (i'm still using xubuntu, though). and ... everything's fixed.
[11:53] <tomreyn> 'groups' lists all groups, i can lock the screen and reactivate it.
[11:59] <TJ-> tomreyn: well nothing has changed in lightdm for a long time - that was something I checked for. So I think the changes in policykit-1 and/or systemd-logind have had unintended consequences. I allowed my T300CHI (also Xubuntu) to upgrade packages but by bit earlier, and even after all upgrades installed it doesn't get affected.
[12:00] <TJ-> tomreyn: I'm beginning to wonder if it is a timing issue. You saw it in a VM (which is relatively slow)and my affected PC is a 2007 Dell XPS Core 2 Duo
[12:00] <TJ-> that doesn't explain why I can consistently reproduce it by the order I open a shell though
[12:01] <TJ-> From what I've seen so far, it's the way sessions and users are handled - the session is supposed to be asociated with a user and their groups. I think when it goes wrong that is failing
[12:08] <tomreyn> maybe, i'm not really able to make a good guess at this point.
[12:08] <tomreyn> just want / need things to work, sorry...
[12:09] <TJ-> Yeah same here. At least there's a way to be sure it does (TTY login first )
[12:11] <tomreyn> this would not have fixed my other issues. but it's good that you found this workaround for the 'groups mismatch' issue
[12:12] <daftykins> sounds like a tangled web alright
[12:13] <daftykins> TJ-: you'd be so proud, i bought a multimeter! :D
[12:13] <TJ-> tomreyn: the no-lock bit, is that Xubuntu? is it using light-locker? I had loads of problems with that and eventually removed it
[12:13]  * TJ- awards daftykins the Hawkins medal :)
[12:14] <tomreyn> TJ-: i didnt spend much time looking for a root cause, so i dont really know.
[12:14] <daftykins> :D
[12:14] <TJ-> tomreyn: "ps -efly | grep lock" :)
[12:15] <tomreyn> it is and was using light-locker, yes
[12:16] <TJ-> tomreyn: anything regarding in xsession-errors?
[12:16] <tomreyn> nothing at all , nor xorg log
[12:17] <tomreyn> i can't reproduce it now, luckily, so it doesn't make much sense trying to debug it now
[12:20] <TJ-> right, the best kind of bug that dies on its own
[12:24] <tomreyn> it's probably still there, just not in this current constellation of installed packages.
[13:24] <lotuspsychje> hey pragmaticenigma
[13:24] <pragmaticenigma> howdy
[13:43] <pragmaticenigma> testing testing ... is this thing on?
[13:43] <lotuspsychje> yes
[13:43] <lotuspsychje> :p
[13:43] <pragmaticenigma> looks like I've got fun connectivity issues today... yay!
[13:43] <lotuspsychje> ask some money back @ isp :p
[13:44] <lotuspsychje> or..dont download & irc hehe
[13:44] <daftykins> \o/
[13:44] <pragmaticenigma> hopefully it's stable now
[18:26] <nacc> wow, super spam-y in #ubuntu today?
[18:26] <nacc> not the spam attack, but random users
[18:27] <tomreyn> looks like
[18:27] <tomreyn> yay, it's an acer!
[18:27] <nacc> lol
[18:27] <nacc> just throw it in the trash :-P
[18:27] <nacc> (i would never just throw a computer in the trash)
[18:32] <pragmaticenigma> it usually is when they don't cooperate
[18:47] <tomreyn> i was thinking it was one of the old netbooks at first, but apparently this is just some rare but well equipped model
[18:47] <daftykins> netbooks definitely belong in the bin
[18:48] <daftykins> where 'bin' is an official ewaste recycling point of course (:
[18:49] <tomreyn> :)
[18:49] <nacc> daftykins: +1 :)
[19:33] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[20:33] <tomreyn> hi
[20:33] <tomreyn> server-live-installer lvm partitioning bug: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1785321
[20:33] <daftykins> hahaha
[20:34] <daftykins> did you see the one where if a disk had a partition table already, subiquity would fail?
[20:34] <tomreyn> no
[20:34] <daftykins> i think it's all been sorted now though, but it was still present on release of 18.04
[20:35] <tomreyn> geez, i really hope whoever made that decision to call it stable is on a loooong trip now.
[20:35] <daftykins> :D
[20:44] <lotuspsychje> lucky that user came to ubuntu
[21:09] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: could this be related to ltsupgrades holdups?
[21:09] <lotuspsychje> that commit is 31/7
[21:09] <tomreyn> lotuspsychje: this is really young
[21:10] <lotuspsychje> right
[21:10] <tomreyn> i'm not sure how to tell whether this is or will be in an alsa release for bionic
[21:13] <lotuspsychje> ah he's getting answered in -release
[21:33] <toto_> hi
[21:36] <daftykins> lo
[21:36] <lotuspsychje> what can we do for you toto_
[21:39] <daftykins> we should sing 'Africa' acapela until we know (:
[21:39] <lotuspsychje> lol
[21:39] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: you gonna make an ubuntu circle with me?
[21:39] <lotuspsychje> hahaha
[21:39] <lotuspsychje> or dualboot
[21:40] <daftykins> :D who will be our #3?
[21:42] <lotuspsychje> you skared him :p
[21:42] <tomreyn> il parle francais, tu sais...
[21:42] <lotuspsychje> ahh duh...
[21:42] <lotuspsychje> we should have seen proxad
[21:43] <tomreyn> maybe english, too, idk
[21:43] <daftykins> oh yeah that was the guy in from last night
[21:44] <tomreyn> oh the one with the finnish ubuntu installation
 i have just finish ubuntu 18 installation on my computer
[21:45] <daftykins> really o0
[21:45] <daftykins> for those who really want a challenge :D
[21:45] <tomreyn> i assume they meant 'finished' though
[21:47] <daftykins> hehe oh right in that sentence, yeah that's not too far wrong i would say :D
[22:29] <alienated> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[22:29] <alienated> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[23:25] <hggdh> hum
[23:26] <daftykins> bug
[23:26] <daftykins> :)
[23:28] <hggdh> heh. While it is an eventual spam, I think we are still better off without +r. If it gets more frequent (even though they are being killed) we can go +r for another while.
[23:31] <tomreyn> there was this other complex mode where only channel ops get spammer but not non-ops. i liked this ;-)
[23:31] <tomreyn> and it doesn't require +r
[23:31] <tomreyn> #freenode would know
[23:34] <hggdh> tomreyn: ends up being similar -- it is a quiet for non-registered, with the +z mode
[23:34] <hggdh> the end result is, still, non-registered cannot chat
[23:35] <hggdh> (this is how #freenode is running right now)


[11:01] <guptan> can some one tell me about pango,fontconfig and xft?
[11:01] <nalioth> shackan: is that is real name?
[11:01] <dbw_> IIIEars: vi file.run
[11:01] <scifiordie> NALIOTH i use amd 64
[11:01] <dbw_> IIIEars: but in general, there's no way to do it
[11:01] <IcemanV9> AikenDrum: oh yeah. it'll be the same plus more once you installed
[11:01] <bob2> guptan: what about it?
[11:01] <shackan> bob2, yes, it's the libraries
[11:02] <AikenDrum> cool - I wanna know how to get aps etc
[11:02] <shackan> bob2, but the binary is missing
[11:02] <shackan> nalioth, it's glademm... what do you mean ?
[11:02] <nalioth> scifiordie: that is why you fail, try the i686 arch for more user compatibility
[11:02] <kosmo> nalioth: Thanks!
[11:02] <bob2> shackan: what binary?
[11:02] <bob2> shackan: to generate C++ code from the xml file?
[11:02] <scifiordie> ok thank you
[11:02] <shackan> bob2, yes, the gui editor, basically
[11:02] <IIIEars> Ah okay Thank You. :)
[11:02] <IcemanV9> AikenDrum: two methods - apt-get in terminal or use gui synapatic
[11:02] <guptan> bob2, i was trying to patch pango, to get a better rendering for malayalam language, so just came across fc and xft
[11:03] <IcemanV9> AikenDrum: it IS very easy to use, really
[11:03] <Quest-Master> nalioth: prelink doesn't speed up things much either
[11:03] <AikenDrum> ok, lost me already....
[11:03] <nalioth> IIIEars: you can do the "file filename.run" and see what it is
[11:03] <nalioth> IIIEars: or you can have a look with a hex editor
[11:03] <IIIEars> << -- going to give ghex a try (has ttrust issues - lol)
[11:03] <AikenDrum> I think i need to do some reading up first :)
[11:03] <nalioth> Quest-Master: on all the different hardware combos, i have no answer for you
[11:04] <nalioth> Quest-Master: on my iBook, it runs great
[11:04] <shackan> bob2, I could get the debian binary, but fear to do so
[11:04] <bob2> shackan: that's in the glade-2 package
[11:04] <guptan> bob2, i copied two files, module-xft.so and module-xft.la to /usr/lib/pango/version/modules directory
[11:04] <shackan> uh
[11:04] <Belutz> nalioth: i use linux-386, should i change to linux-586 ?
[11:04] <Quest-Master> nalioth: :(
[11:04] <nalioth> Belutz: what processor do you have?
[11:04] <IcemanV9> AikenDrum: ha. ok. System > Administration > Synaptic
[11:04] <Belutz> nalioth: Centrino
[11:04] <IcemanV9> AikenDrum: play with it. it's so easy to install new apps
[11:05] <ska-fan> I somewhere subscribed my email to bugs about the postgresql package. Where can I cancel that subscription?
[11:05] <ska-fan> (in the debian bts)
[11:05] <nalioth> Belutz: i believe centrino = pentiumIII = i586
[11:05] <AikenDrum> excellent - cheers due :-))
[11:05] <bob2> ska-fan: presuambly on bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[11:05] <bob2> nalioth: no
[11:05] <ahvargas> nalioth: how do i make the vmliuz image for the client?
[11:05] <AikenDrum> *dude
[11:05] <Belutz> nalioth: so i should change it?
[11:05] <shackan> bob2, I have glade, it doesn't seem to have gtkmm support
[11:05] <nalioth> bob2: thank you, i'm not certain on intel hardware
[11:05] <Belutz> centrino is pentiumIV
[11:05] <bob2> centrino = i8XX video + ipw2x00 wireless + pentium m
[11:05] <nalioth> Belutz: then you need i686
[11:05] <bob2> which is derived fro mthe p3, but different
[11:05] <bob2> shackan: what exactly are you asking for?
[11:06] <ska-fan> actually, i[89] xx video
[11:06] <bob2> shackan: a tool to generate C++ code from glade files?
[11:06] <Belutz> nalioth: ok.. btw, may i private message you?
[11:06] <shackan> bob2, exactly
[11:06] <IcemanV9> AikenDrum: you'll be an expert in a week once you play with ubuntu :)
[11:06] <CarlFK> in passwd I have irc:x:39:39:ircd:/var/run/ircd:/bin/sh - where did that come from?
[11:06] <bob2> shackan: that's deprecated, the brave new way is to load the xml file at runtime with libglade
[11:06] <AikenDrum> thanks - I'm hoping ill pick it up
[11:06] <bob2> CarlFK: from you installing an irc server
[11:06] <bob2> CarlFK: ah, it comes by default
[11:06] <CarlFK> bob2  - don't scare me like that ;)
[11:07] <davidandrew> After I log in I get a message - "Could not look up internet address for ." and a warning that gnome may not operate correclty - I then find that I can not connect to many websites and email servers - whats up?
[11:07] <shackan> bob2, ok, but after I load the xml files, I'll have to invoke methods on my gui objects :D
[11:07] <AikenDrum> will this install them to hd - as i'm only running ubuntu from disk.....
[11:07] <bob2> shackan: yes
[11:07] <bob2> shackan: thats how libglade works
[11:07] <stodge> HI folks. Is there something I have to run to setup g++ and gcc? I have gcc3.3 installed, but the files gxx and gcc don't exist
[11:07] <shackan> bob2, uh great, thanks!
[11:07] <IcemanV9> AikenDrum: nope. you'll need an install CD
[11:07] <shackan> :-)
[11:07] <AikenDrum> I have that
[11:07] <nalioth> stodge: install "build-essential"
[11:08] <kbrooks> What is the location of the directory of C header files that match your running
[11:08] <kbrooks> kernel? [/usr/src/linux/include]
[11:08] <IcemanV9> AikenDrum: well. yes.
[11:08] <kbrooks> I'm trying to install vmware.
[11:08] <LokeDK> can I get a trashcan on my desktop too?
[11:08] <bob2> shackan: but you seem to be right, glade-- isn't in ubuntu, afaict
[11:08] <nalioth> Belutz: what did you need with a PM?
[11:08] <stodge> Ok thanks
[11:08] <mcphail> zone17: Bazaar and baz-ng http://www.bazaar-ng.org/
[11:08] <ahvargas> kbrooks:you have to dowload does files
[11:08] <bob2> kbrooks: sudo aptitude install linux-headers-$(uname -r)
[11:08] <bob2> kbrooks: then lok in /usr/src/
[11:08] <IcemanV9> LokeDK: yes, you can
[11:09] <desrt> aw crud
[11:09] <bob2> zone17: and HCT, which isn't public yet
[11:09] <LokeDK> how? I can't .. er .. move it from the panel or something
[11:09] <desrt> that MOBARMEG guy is gone
[11:09] <shackan> bob2, but the libraries are, you showed me two minutes ago :)
[11:09] <bob2> shackan: yeah, libglademm has nothing to do with generating C++ code from glade xml files
[11:10] <shackan> bob2, I know, that's why I was asking
[11:10] <Belutz> nalioth: i'm compiling ieee8211 and i got errors... maybe you could find where the mistakes are?
[11:10] <shackan> thank you bob
[11:10] <zone17> Thank you very much!!
[11:10] <bob2> shackan: gazpacho is another glade editor, aiui
[11:10] <nalioth> Belutz: pastebin it
[11:10] <mumbles> bored ..
[11:11] <shackan> bob2, never heard about it :)
[11:11] <nalioth> mumbles: go ask a question in #debian
[11:11] <mumbles> hehe
[11:11] <bob2> please don't troll other channels
[11:11] <desrt> i love how #debian is a channel in which asking a question automatically qualifies you as a troll
[11:11] <bob2> no, that's not true
[11:11] <Belutz> nalioth: ok
[11:11] <bob2> also, this is off-topic
[11:12] <davidandrew> Hi can anyone ehlp - After I log in I get a message - "Could not look up internet address for ." and a warning that gnome may not operate correclty - I then find that I can not connect to many websites and email servers - whats up?
[11:12] <desrt> i asked for dpkg help in there once.. quite on-topic
[11:12] <desrt> i mentioned i was running ubuntu -> kickban
[11:12] <nalioth> davidandrew: does it say only the dot?
[11:12] <davidandrew> Yes
[11:12] <bob2> desrt: I really doubt that was the case, unless you have logs to demonstrate it
[11:12] <nalioth> davidandrew: what is your computer name (is it just a dot)?
[11:12] <Belutz> nalioth: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/683
[11:12] <davidandrew> no
[11:13] <dataw0lf> desrt: Who did it?  I don't think that happened.
[11:13] <desrt> bob2; well, it was.  and no, i don't log irc
[11:13] <bob2> desrt: when was it then? I'll look it up myself.
[11:13] <shackan> bob2, I'm trying gazpacho now, seems even better than glade :D
[11:13] <bob2> shackan: hehe
[11:13] <desrt> shackan; see also: stetic
[11:13] <Belutz> nalioth: i was following this how-to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=26623
[11:13] <nalioth> davidandrew: open as root, the file /etc/hosts  and put in teh top right under "localhost  <IP_ADDRESS>" your computername         <IP_ADDRESS>
[11:14] <AikenDrum> ok, easier optioni. floppy boot disks for me to use on my old lappy...? I know it won't boot from cd...
[11:14] <mbirkis> how do i mount a directory with a specific user as owner using fstab?
[11:14] <guptan> which is the best place to know more about pango, fontconfig and xfc?
[11:14] <guptan> xft*
[11:14] <AikenDrum> so I can install ubuntu on that
[11:14] <nalioth> Belutz: did you run ./configure first?
[11:14] <bob2> mbirkis: uid=<youruid>
[11:15] <pax> It is a fact that some scriptkiddies at debian channel are turning that community to an elitist bunch of arrogant snubs.
[11:15] <shackan> desrt, sorry it's not in my apt-cache
[11:15] <Belutz> nalioth: no, the how to said no ./configure and there's no configure file
[11:15] <Will_> pax: Why?
[11:15] <mumbles> anyone know any good flying sim games
[11:15] <desrt> mbirkis; uid= under the options section in fstab
[11:15] <pax> Will_: go hang there and find out.
[11:15] <mbirkis> bob2: thnx... how do i find the uid? it is a number right?
[11:15] <desrt> mbirkis; you can use your username
[11:16] <bob2> mbirkis: by running the "id" command as your user
[11:17] <MrKeuner> hi, does anybody have any experience on beagle? roughly how long does it take to index a 2GB user space? 1-2 hours? 1-2 days?
[11:18] <trinidad> beagle?
[11:18] <trinidad> i do believe that is PCB software?
[11:18] <denizinha> hi, i got an ubuntu live cd, how many ram do i need to run it?
[11:18] <desrt> beagle = real-time search tool
[11:18] <MrKeuner> no beagle is mono software
[11:18] <loftus> MrKeuner, 1-2 hours
[11:18] <bob2> desrt: 256MB or so
[11:18] <MrKeuner> loftus/ thanks
[11:18] <hondje> how stable is breezy vs sid right now?
[11:19] <hondje> now that sid has gone wild with gcc and xorg
[11:19] <desrt> bob2; hm?
[11:19] <desrt> oh.
[11:19] <desrt> denizinha; 256MB or so :)
[11:19] <bob2> desrt: 256MB or so, but doesn't the package tell you that?
[11:19] <loftus> hondje, breezy seems pretty stable to me. x breaks every now and then thou ;)
[11:19] <nalioth> davidandrew: how are we doing?
[11:19] <desrt> bob2; misfire.
[11:20] <denizinha> thank you :( i only have 96mb here lol
[11:20] <bob2> bah
[11:20] <denizinha> will it run slow, or wont it run?
[11:20] <desrt> denizinha; livecd probably won't run
[11:20] <hondje> loftus: good deal, thanks
[11:20] <desrt> denizinha; if you install it it will probably run quite slow
[11:20] <jasoncohen> MrKeuner, i think xorg is still broken in breezy
[11:20] <jasoncohen> MrKeuner, see /topic
[11:21] <denizinha> really? i though it needed just a little  to install :(
[11:21] <MrKeuner> jasoncohen/ ?
[11:21] <desrt> denizinha; if you install the server install it needs like 32meg
[11:21] <jasoncohen> denizinha, the livcd needs enough ram for the system to run off of
[11:21] <Will_> Oh my god. Ubuntu base install has emacs?
[11:21] <vladuz976> hi does anybody know a convenient way of setting up dvorak and being able to switch easily to qwerty?
[11:21] <desrt> denizinha; but if you want to run gnome with 96megs it will be quite slow
[11:21] <Will_> <-giggles
[11:22] <desrt> vladuz976; there's a panel applet for that purpose
[11:22] <denizinha> i think i'll run text mode... lol
[11:22] <jasoncohen> MrKeuner, /topic says not to upgrade xorg past 6.8.2-36 because it's broken
[11:22] <vladuz976> desrt: in gnome?
[11:22] <desrt> vladuz976; "keyboard indicator"
[11:22] <desrt> vladuz976; yes
[11:22] <stodge> Is the openssl-devel package available for ubuntu?
[11:23] <MrKeuner> well, I don't use ubuntu. :)
[11:23] <desrt> stodge; yes.  but it's probably called libopenssl-dev or something
[11:23] <jmspeex> jasoncohen: just curious, how could you upgrade anyway, I don't see it with apt?
[11:23] <Hexstream> Hi, I threw a bad mv command that TRASHED MY USR/LOCAL, how do I recover from an hydrogen bomb?
[11:23] <stodge> I search synaptic for openssl but it didnt come up
[11:23] <desrt> stodge; libssl-dev
[11:23] <jasoncohen> stodge, libssl-dev
[11:23] <hondje> Hexstream: just get your backups out
[11:23] <stodge> Oh yeah - it doesn't find it if I search for just ssl :P
[11:23] <stodge> Thanks
[11:23] <Hexstream> which backups ;P
[11:23] <jasoncohen> jmspeex, you shouldn't upgrade to breezy now
[11:24] <bob2> Hexstream: reinstall whatever you put in there, or restore your backups
[11:24] <denizinha> Well, guys, thanks for the information, see you later :)
[11:24] <jasoncohen> jmspeex, you mean xorg? the newest version is -42 i think
[11:24] <jmspeex> jasoncohen: breezy is the upcoming release?
[11:24] <bob2> Hexstream: /usr/local/ isn't managed by any of the ubuntu package tools
[11:24] <jasoncohen> jmspeex, yes
[11:24] <desrt> jmspeex; october
[11:24] <jasoncohen> jmspeex, you would have to change your sources.list from hoary to breezy
[11:24] <davidandrew> Malioth - the hosts fi;e top line reads - "<IP_ADDRESS> localhost.localdomain localhost david"- david is the comuter name
[11:24] <jasoncohen> it won't be released until mid october
[11:24] <desrt> don't install breezy
[11:24] <jmspeex> jasoncohen: Is there some kind of "unstable" too?
[11:24] <jasoncohen> it is unstable
[11:24] <jasoncohen> breezy is like debian sid but more unstable
[11:25] <desrt> breezy isn't installable right now
[11:25] <Hexstream> how do I reinstall just that /usr/local stuff?
[11:25] <desrt> although you might succeed at upgrading it
[11:25] <mumbles> whats th eserch command under $ ?
[11:25] <desrt> mumbles; locate
[11:25] <vladuz976> desrt: you mean the keyboard indicator>
[11:25] <vladuz976> ?
[11:25] <desrt> vladuz976; yes.  i suspect that's what i meant when i said "keyboard indicator" :)
[11:25] <bob2> Hexstream: that's entirely your responsibility; anything in there was put there by you, not ubuntu
[11:26] <desrt> vladuz976; btw... if you're just learning dvorak, then switching back and forth to qwerty is a very bad thing to do
[11:27] <vladuz976> desrt: no, i just want to be able to switch it back for my girlfriend, when she writes her emails
[11:27] <jasoncohen> jmspeex, until very recently sid was reasonably stable
[11:27] <jasoncohen> since the release of sarge it has shifted to gcc 4 and xorg so it's quite unstable now
[11:28] <stodge> Oh no not gcc4
[11:28] <desrt> stodge; are you installing breezy?
[11:29] <stodge> breezy?
[11:29] <desrt> i suppose not :)
[11:29] <stodge> :)
[11:29] <desrt> breezy is the new version of ubuntu based on gcc4
[11:29] <stodge> Ah
[11:29] <stodge> I used gcc4 on Fedora Core 4, and it wouldn't compile a couple of things for me
[11:29] <vladuz976> desrt: i can't figure out how to switch to dvorak with that
[11:29] <jmspeex> jasoncohen: I found sid reasonnably stable. I changed because it didn't like being moved to another disk and installing ubuntu was faster.
[11:30] <Burgundavia> jmspeex, sid was fairly stable until sarge released
[11:30] <jasoncohen> when did you switch?
[11:30] <desrt> vladuz976; you have to setup a dvorak layout in the gnome keyboard settings
[11:30] <bob2> that's usually broken code, not broken gcc
[11:30] <jmspeex> jasoncohen: is 4.0.1 avaialble for ubuntu?
[11:30] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:30] <jmspeex> jasoncohen: 3-4 days ago.
[11:30] <stodge> That may be true, but it's things I don't have the time or knowledge to fix
[11:30] <jmspeex> (before upgrading to xorg though)
[11:31] <jmspeex> bob2: gcc 4.0.0 is badly broken AFAIK.
[11:31] <Thewarmachine> what is afaik
[11:31] <Thewarmachine> ?
[11:31] <desrt> jmspeex; that's fairly untrue
[11:31] <desrt> as far as i know
[11:32] <Hexstream> I never touched /usr/local before yet there was plenty of directories and stuff.... mb they were just empty... but doesn't the installer sometimes install ANYTHING in it?...
[11:32] <Thewarmachine> gcc 4.0 presents certain problems
[11:32] <vladuz976> desrt: in there pick the uk one? is that ok for us english?
[11:32] <mcphail> Hexstream: no
[11:32] <bob2> Hexstream: it makes some empty directories.  it's ok if they're gone, though.
[11:32] <IcemanV9> is there a channel for breezy discussion? like #ubuntu-breezy
[11:32] <jmspeex> desrt: google for "gcc miscompiles KDE"
[11:32] <desrt> vladuz976; i don't know
[11:32] <Burgundavia> Hexstream, apt doesn't install anything into /usr/local
[11:32] <stodge> Ubuntu installed nicely onto my new SATA drive BTW - thanks for a great job :)
[11:32] <bob2> IcemanV9: no
[11:32] <Hexstream> good, I trashed the only system/wide directory I could trash safely ;P   thx..
[11:32] <Thewarmachine> afaik what is ?
[11:33] <nalioth> whats the command to install kernel headers (you'd think i'd c/p it into a file)
[11:33] <stodge> afaik = as far as I know
[11:33] <Thewarmachine> nevermind
[11:33] <desrt> jmspeex; no hits
[11:33] <Thewarmachine> lo
[11:33] <Thewarmachine> i just remembered it
[11:33] <bob2> nalioth: sudo aptitude install linux-headers-$(uname -r)
[11:33] <mcphail> Hexstream: you could trash /opt as well...
[11:33] <bob2> /opt/ doesn't exist by default on ubuntu
[11:33] <jmspeex> desrt: Not to mention the general tendency for gcc to make sure they break some non-conformant code with every new release, but not too much because they need to save some for the next release.
[11:33] <Hexstream> well at least that dir sounds as... OPTIONAL as it is
[11:33] <bob2> or maybe it does now
[11:33] <mcphail> bob2: it's on mine
[11:34] <nalioth> ty, bob2  (am pasting it now)
[11:34] <desrt> jmspeex; i generally agree with gcc on this one
[11:34] <signbarn> I just bought a new 200 gig hard drive and an external usb 2.0/firewire casing for it. I'm going to use it to store anime and movies. Should I make numerous 32 gig FAT32 partitions so it can play nicely with linux _and_ windows?
[11:34] <nalioth> signbarn: do you run 2k or xp?
[11:34] <desrt> jmspeex; it's up to gcc to make a C compiler.... not to support people's broken code
[11:34] <jmspeex> desrt: e.g. http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1004
[11:35] <signbarn> nalioth: i dual boot with xp
[11:35] <nalioth> signbarn: i'd recommend ext3 as there is an ext3 driver for xp and 2k
[11:35] <desrt> jmspeex; you see stuff like this all the time
[11:35] <stodge> Hmm no anjuta in the repositories
[11:35] <nalioth> signbarn: there is a filesize limit with fat32
[11:35] <signbarn> fantastic!
[11:35] <desrt> jmspeex; to these people i say: write a small testcase that unambiguously shows gcc to be at fault
[11:35] <desrt> jmspeex; at which point they usually sulk about being too busy or something and then go and fix their broken code
[11:35] <Goshawk> hi
[11:35] <jmspeex> desrt: the issue with kde and gcc 4 is a *gcc* bug. They actually fixed it.
[11:36] <signbarn> nalioth: so just google for ext3 drivers windows xp?
[11:36] <desrt> jmspeex; ah.  that's good, then.
[11:36] <bob2> stodge: sure there is
[11:36] <desrt> happen to know the gcc PR #?
[11:36] <bob2> stodge: anjuta - A GNOME development IDE, for C/C++
[11:36] <Goshawk> why is there not the ndiswrapper-util package for amd64 arch? it's in the repo for only i386.
[11:36] <nalioth> signbarn: its a project at sourceforge, i believe
[11:37] <bob2> Goshawk: do you have a 64-bit windows NDIS driver for your card?
[11:37] <signbarn> much obliged! :-)
[11:37] <stodge> bob2: maybe I don't have all the right repositories setup
[11:37] <stodge> bob2: I get no hits on anjuta
[11:37] <bob2> stodge: enable universe (read /etc/apt/sources.list)
[11:37] <Goshawk> bob2,  i think not
[11:37] <jmspeex> desrt: I also have a problem with the fact that breaking code almost seems like a goal for the gcc devs.
[11:37] <bob2> Goshawk: then it doesn't matter
[11:37] <stodge> *doh* universe
[11:37] <desrt> jmspeex; it's not a goal.  it's a side effect of their goal of writing a C compiler
[11:37] <jmspeex> So is removing their extensions at random.
[11:37] <desrt> jmspeex; code that isn't C will break
[11:38] <Goshawk> bob2,  but i have to compile ndiswrapper-utils by myself...
[11:38] <bob2> Goshawk: compiling it won't help you
[11:38] <bob2> Goshawk: since then you still won't have a 64-bit NDIS windows driver
[11:38] <jmspeex> desrt: At least if they broke all non-conpliant code once instead of breaking more stuff for every release.
[11:39] <desrt> jmspeex; if they tried to do that, they'd have to stop releasing gcc for quite a while
[11:39] <Goshawk> bob2, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=31926
[11:39] <jmspeex> desrt: Not to mention that inline assembly is now completely unreadable thanks to the removal of multi-line strings with no replacement at all.
[11:39] <desrt> jmspeex; plus.. when they finally did release it, people would be even more unhappy than normal
[11:39] <desrt> huh?
[11:39] <desrt> "you "
[11:39] <desrt> "mean "
[11:39] <desrt> "this "
[11:39] <desrt> "doesn't "
[11:39] <desrt> "work?"
[11:39] <jmspeex> "I
[11:39] <jmspeex> mean
[11:39] <jmspeex> this
[11:39] <jmspeex> doesn't
[11:39] <jmspeex> work"
[11:39] <desrt> that's not legal C.
[11:40] <Goshawk> bob2, even if i don't have the 64 bit drivers, ndiswrapper-utils should be added to the repo, isn'it?
[11:40] <bob2> that's pretty annoying, guys
[11:40] <IIIEars> bot2 - okay, - 64bit processors provide security against buffer overflows. - but there isn't a net connection wrapper that uses the no execute bit?
[11:40] <jmspeex> desrt: It's not legal C, but neither is inline asm, although it's necessary.
[11:40] <IIIEars> sry "bob2" - (embarrased)
[11:40] <bob2> IIIEars: no, it has nothing to do with "64-bit" processors
[11:40] <jmspeex> Now, instead of having asm ("
[11:40] <jmspeex>    mov ....
[11:40] <jmspeex>     add ....
[11:40] <Antinomy> Who wants to help a n00b?!?
[11:40] <jmspeex>      ");
[11:40] <Will_> Antinomy: Just ask the question!
[11:40] <desrt> Antinomy; it's best to just ask your question
[11:40] <jmspeex> You have to write: asm (
[11:41] <bob2> IIIEars: the amd64 archtecture has some instructions that help with that, yes.  I'm not sure what a "net connection wrapper" is, though.
[11:41] <jmspeex> "mov... \n\t"
[11:41] <jmspeex> "add... \n\t"
[11:41] <jmspeex> );
[11:41] <bob2> IIIEars: you mean somehow filtering all data comign in via the network?
[11:41] <Antinomy> oh, well, that was my FIRST question, I guess you've answered it
[11:41] <Antinomy> :)
[11:41] <Antinomy> but lessee
[11:41] <bob2> Goshawk: I'd assume it's not there because ndiswrapper only recently started doing useful things on amd64
[11:41] <desrt> jmspeex; or you could do it without the \t
[11:41] <jmspeex> whereas any other compiler would just allow the "asm { }"
[11:41] <IIIEars> ndis wrapper? - the software that acts as a bridge to normal linux instruction to the OS.
[11:41] <desrt> gcc does allow that
[11:41] <Antinomy> ok, how do I install a media player on ubuntu that can play a wide variety of formats?
[11:42] <desrt> use -fasm-blocks
[11:42] <jmspeex> desrt: I think some assemblers want the \t
[11:42] <desrt> (and run mac os x) :)
[11:42] <Quest-Master> Antinomy: VLC for video
[11:42] <Thewarmachine> vlc-esd
[11:42] <Antinomy> What is that, an application?
[11:42] <bob2> IIIEars: you're asking if ndiswrapper uses the no execute bit?
[11:42] <Goshawk> the post that i'm reading is old from 5 may 05...
[11:42] <Antinomy> I'm a super noob
[11:42] <HrdwrBoB> Antinomy: http://wiki.ubuntulinux/RestrictedFormats
[11:42] <PlanarPlatypus> Antinomy, http://www.ubuntuguide.org
[11:42] <Antinomy> Ubuntu guide doesnt help. Sorry.
[11:42] <HrdwrBoB> Antinomy: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.com/RestrictedFormats
[11:42] <IIIEars> bob2 - yes.
[11:42] <HrdwrBoB> even
[11:43] <bob2> IIIEars: it can't, the windows driver runs in the kernel, so it could simply disable the bit anyway
[11:43] <Antinomy> and the link you gave, Hrdwr, is not taking me anywhere
[11:43] <desrt> jmspeex; i'll agree that it'd be nice if -fasm-blocks got merged into the main tree
[11:43] <IIIEars> bob2  -Ouch!  - lol
[11:43] <jmspeex> desrt: Right, is that a gcc policy ("everyone switch to OS X")?
[11:43] <Goshawk> bob2, it's 2 months for me, ok i'll compile ndiswrapper. is there a way to start a process to add it into the default repo?
[11:43] <bob2> Antinomy: explain which bit of that page you don't understand, then.
[11:43] <nalioth> PlanarPlatypus: please dont advise blind use of the ubuntuguide
[11:43] <desrt> no
[11:43] <desrt> that's just apple's policy :)
[11:43] <Antinomy> which page?
[11:43] <Antinomy> I'll tell you both:
[11:43] <nalioth> PlanarPlatypus: send users to a specific place in it, pleae
[11:43] <bob2> Goshawk: it's already in the archive, you just need to demonstrate that it does something useful on amd64
[11:44] <jmspeex> desrt: The main point is that multi-line strings were necessary because of the brain-dead inline assembly and then they just went on and removed it for no useful reason other than annoying people.
[11:44] <Antinomy> 1) Ubuntuguide - I went there like a good noob oughta, and one set of instructions - where I'm replacing text in a file - was ascking me to replace text that didnt exist
[11:44] <Antinomy> the "restrictedformats" page link above did not open
[11:44] <bob2> Antinomy: so, you're being uselessly vague.  which text didn't exist?  which exact section were you reading?
[11:45] <Goshawk> bob2, no it's in the i386 archive, not in the amd64 one, so all the ubuntunians with amd64 processors need to compile ndiswrapper first.
[11:45] <desrt> jmspeex; is there something inside of you that thinks that inline assembly hacks are supposed to be elegant? :)
[11:45] <HrdwrBoB> Antinomy: the second ling
[11:45] <HrdwrBoB> link
[11:45] <jmspeex> jmspeex: gcc motto: "Look at this nice extension" "Look it's gone now"
[11:45] <bob2> Antinomy: then you typed in the wrong url.  wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[11:45] <Goshawk> bob2, instead of "just install" their drivers
[11:45] <bob2> Goshawk: no, that's nowt how the archive works.  the source is i nthe archive, now all that needs to happen is for it to be built on amd64.
[11:45] <kbrooks> i need
[11:45] <kbrooks> What is the location of the directory of C header files that match your running
[11:45] <kbrooks> kernel? [/usr/src/linux/include]
[11:45] <jmspeex> desrt: Assembly is already ugly enough that I see no reason to make it even uglier on purpose.
[11:45] <bob2> Goshawk: which cards have 64-bit NDIS drivers?
[11:45] <kbrooks> anyone?
[11:45] <Antinomy> look at the link above. that wasn't what was typed. sorry. I'll try this one now. Thanks.
[11:45] <bob2> kbrooks: dude, stop it, I told you the answer
[11:45] <kbrooks> bob2: doesnt work
[11:45] <Goshawk> bob2, there is a generic one
[11:46] <Goshawk> for all the broadcom g and b modes
[11:46] <TheCello> grueziwohl
[11:46] <bob2> kbrooks: and what does "doesn't work" mean?  the command sets your cat on fire?
[11:46] <nalioth> kbrooks: have you instlled the headers?
[11:46] <bob2> kbrooks: it kicked you in the face?
[11:46] <HrdwrBoB> kbrooks: they are in /usr/src/linux-headers-$(uname -r)
[11:46] <kbrooks> bob2: ok, sorry
[11:46] <bob2> kbrooks: or did aptitude print an error?
[11:46] <HrdwrBoB> kbrooks: assuming you have the package installed
[11:46] <kbrooks> HrdwrBoB: what do i do?
[11:46] <HrdwrBoB> run apt-get install linux-headers-$(uname -r)
[11:46] <funkyHat> bob2, i use kernel headers to set all my neighbor's cats on fire
[11:47] <kbrooks> HrdwrBoB: i did
[11:47] <Thewarmachine> LOL
[11:47] <desrt> the official location is /lib/modules/`uname -r`/build
[11:47] <PlanarPlatypus> nalioth, point taken, apologies
[11:47] <HrdwrBoB> unless you're trying to install the nvidia drivers, in which case you get the package
[11:47] <Thewarmachine> kbrooks whats yiour version of gcc
[11:47] <desrt> it will be a symlink to wherever your source is, if it's installed
[11:47] <Goshawk> bob2, look at http://www.linuxant.com/driverloader/drivers.php you can find some drivers for 64 bit
[11:48] <Antinomy> ok, can someone explain what a repository is, and what the universe and multiverse is?
[11:48] <kbrooks> desrt: ok, now do i point vmware to that?
[11:48] <desrt> kbrooks; you're on your own :)
[11:48] <bob2> Antinomy: a repository is a set of packages.  universe is a set of Free Software packages, multiverse is a set of random other ones.
[11:48] <kbrooks> desrt: in general?
[11:48] <desrt> kbrooks; if it doesn't auto-detect it for itself, it's probably because they're not installed
[11:49] <funkyHat> Antinomy, a repository is a online database of software packages you can download and install on your system
[11:49] <Antinomy> ok. a package is the material I need to install an application?
[11:49] <kbrooks> desrt: ok
[11:49] <desrt> what kernel subtype are you running?  386? 686?
[11:49] <bob2> Antinomy: sort of
[11:49] <nalioth> Antinomy: how bout you visit wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation   ?
[11:49] <bob2> kbrooks: you paid for vmware, won't the vmware company help you?
[11:49] <Antinomy> nalioth: I have, thanks, but I find it obtuse and hard to navigate.
[11:49] <Thewarmachine> thats the thing
[11:49] <kbrooks> bob2: i downloaded the demo!
[11:49] <desrt> bob2; heh :)
[11:49] <nalioth> Antinomy: really?
[11:49] <Thewarmachine> lies
[11:49] <Knowledge_> ro quiet splash <---would that being in my my menu.lst disable the bootsplash?
[11:49] <Antinomy> nalioth: really.
[11:49] <Thewarmachine> lol
[11:50] <Antinomy> nalioth: no offense if you wrote it or something.
[11:50] <Thewarmachine> ahhhh, the smell of pirated software in the afternoon
[11:50] <nalioth> Antinomy: reposotories are where the software binaries are stored
[11:50] <Antinomy> ok.
[11:50] <nalioth> Antinomy: universe and multiverse exist due to various licensing reasons
[11:50] <Antinomy> now: universe repositories are "official"? am I right?
[11:50] <desrt> vmware can't price a product at $200 and expect nobody to pirate it :P
[11:50] <nalioth> Antinomy: uni and multi are "official"
[11:50] <Antinomy> ok
[11:51] <desrt> kbrooks; if you answer my question i can help you....
[11:51] <kbrooks> desrt: and that is?
[11:51] <desrt> what type of kernel are you running?
[11:51] <desrt> the output of uname -r is sufficient
[11:51] <kbrooks> it detected
[11:51] <Antinomy> so what's the difference between uni and multi? where they are stored?
[11:51] <kbrooks> desrt: ty ty ty
[11:51] <desrt> Antinomy; multiverse contains some stuff of questionable legality
[11:51] <desrt> ie: non-free stuff
[11:51] <Antinomy> I see
[11:51] <Antinomy> ok.
[11:52] <desrt> Antinomy; universe is just stuff basically ported from debian
[11:52] <Antinomy> So in general, if I want to stick it to the bastards, stick with universe repositories
[11:52] <nalioth> Antinomy: why limit yourself, use uni and multi
[11:52] <desrt> shrug.
[11:52] <desrt> use uni, multi and marallit (sp?) :)
[11:52] <stodge> Wow you guys even have Soya3d in the repositories :)
[11:53] <kbrooks> desrt: marillat is incompatible
[11:53] <teferi> hey neat, bluetooth works with minimal hackery
[11:53] <teferi> very nice
[11:53] <nalioth> desrt: please dont adivse marrilat
[11:53] <kevin> he he I am using 386 lol, I am learning lots from this channel
[11:53] <Antinomy> ok, some definitions - debian is the baseline version of linux that ubu is built on
[11:53] <Antinomy> ?
[11:53] <desrt> ah.  marrilat served me well for quite some time
[11:53] <kbrooks> Antinomy: debian sid
[11:53] <nalioth> Antinomy: stay away from marillat repository (as mentioned in ubuntuguide)
[11:53] <nalioth> desrt: it's currently incompatible here
[11:53] <Antinomy> nali: got it
[11:53] <desrt> rawr.
[11:53] <Antinomy> nali: thanks
[11:53] <HrdwrBoB> the only thing you may want from there is w32codecs
[11:53] <desrt> i haven't been on hoary for a while so i failed to notice :)
[11:54] <HrdwrBoB> they are highly legally questionable, however also highly useful
[11:54] <Antinomy> nali: when I download a package from the uni, where is it coming from?
[11:54] <desrt> Antinomy; ftp.ubuntu.com or a mirror
[11:54] <desrt> main/multi/uni/security all come off of there
[11:54] <Antinomy> des: thanks, so from the official packager of Ubuntu
[11:55] <desrt> Antinomy; the universe stuff is handled by the MOTU (masters of the universe)
[11:55] <kbrooks> Antinomy: there's none
[11:55] <Antinomy> who are?
[11:55] <Knowledge_> ro quiet splash is in my menu.lst for grub, is that what's disabling my bootsplash?
[11:55] <Antinomy> the community.
[11:55] <Antinomy> I see.
[11:55] <Antinomy> ok
[11:55] <desrt> Antinomy; some guys who manage the ubuntu universe pacakges :)
[11:55] <kbrooks> Knowledge_: no.
[11:55] <Antinomy> Gotcha gotcha - trusted and beloved members of the ubuntu community
[11:55] <Knowledge_> kbrooks: thank you
[11:55] <kbrooks> Knowledge_: do you think bootsplash is in ubuntu?
[11:56] <desrt> Antinomy; fine folks like crimsun  :)
[11:56] <Knowledge_> kbrooks: I ono
[11:56] <Antinomy> aha!
[11:56] <Antinomy> ok
[11:56] <nalioth> Antinomy: you'll trigger my bell if you use my whole nickname (you can hit the tab key to complete it)
[11:56] <Antinomy> nalioth: oh ok, thanks. I'm new to IRC too.
[11:56] <signbarn> oohh i have a nice splash screen for GRUB from the wiki :-)
[11:56] <desrt> bootsplash is a sign of weakness
[11:56] <nalioth> Antinomy: when you use peoples whole nicks, the various clients signal attention
[11:57] <Knowledge_> desrt: How so?
[11:57] <Antinomy> nalioth: may I ask a general question?
[11:57] <hmrocha> Hello
[11:57] <hmrocha> I have w32codecs installed
[11:57] <desrt> if you care about your bootup screen so much i suspect you're doing too much rebooting :)
[11:57] <hmrocha> How can I download the package only?
[11:57] <nalioth> Antinomy: ask anything you like
[11:57] <hmrocha> I want to copy the deb file to a friend of mine.
[11:57] <nalioth> hmrocha: you can get a tar.gz from www.mplayerhq.hu  (or he can)
[11:58] <nalioth> hmrocha: it's on the download page and called essential codecs or something
[11:58] <Antinomy> nalioth: thanks for being patient. I'd like to ask you a specific question and then ask you about related concepts.  It's the way I learn. It's why I have trouble with Wikis and forums.
[11:58] <Knowledge_> desrt: lol, I suppose, however it's because I can't hibernate because my battery will drain, and there's no other way of booting up except for a full boot up
[11:58] <kevin> I don't use mplayer on this laptop, it is only a p1 233 lol
[11:58] <kevin> with 64 mb ram
[11:58] <Knowledge_> desrt: just want something pleasing to the eyes
[11:58] <desrt> Knowledge_; ahh
[11:58] <nalioth> Antinomy: ask away
[11:58] <desrt> how bad is your hibernate?
[11:58] <Antinomy> nalioth: plus I think that I need some real basic definitional stuff that alot of the forums/docs take for granted, but which I do not know :)
[11:58] <kevin> mine works like a charm
[11:59] <Knowledge_> desrt: in terms of how long the battery will last?
[11:59] <desrt> ya
[11:59] <Knowledge_> desrt: my batt has dead cells
[11:59] <desrt> i think mine sleeps for like a week
[11:59] <Knowledge_> Not long at all
[11:59] <desrt> gotcha.
[11:59] <kevin> I do 3x a day, it is like this I take it to work and to customers
[11:59] <Antinomy> nalioth: ok, thanks. So. I'm running Ubuntu on an old desktop until I get used to it enough to use it on my newer laptop.
[11:59] <Antinomy> nalioth: so that's done.
[11:59] <Knowledge_> it'd be cool if you could just save to hard drive so it can completely shut the compuyter dow
[11:59] <Knowledge_> n
[11:59] <Antinomy> nalioth: it's cool, I dig it.
[11:59] <desrt> Knowledge_; ok.  so i hold by my statement :)
[11:59] <signbarn> i boot a lot because my friends don't use linux and i play games in windows. i haven't quite figured out wine yet. but i will :-)
[12:00] <desrt> Knowledge_; bootsplash is a sign of weakness.... in the battery :)


[10:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2892 Generating diffs
[10:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2892 Failed to build (artful/nux, artful/unity). Successfully built (artful/compiz)
[11:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2958 Abandoning ticket
[11:49] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2964 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[12:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2964 Failed to build
[15:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho kenvandine, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2965 Preparing packages
[15:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2892 Publishing packages
[15:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2892 Publish failed: Failed to build
[15:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho kenvandine, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2965 zesty/ubuntu-themes: Failed to add changelog message
[15:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2892 Generating diffs
[15:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2892 Failed to build (artful/nux, artful/unity). Successfully built (artful/compiz)
[15:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho kenvandine, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2965 Ready to build
[15:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2966 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[16:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2966 Failed to build
[16:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2966 Failed to build
[17:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho kenvandine, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2965 Preparing packages
[18:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho kenvandine, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2965 Successfully built


[06:58] <pitti> Good morning
[07:26] <tgpraveen> i hope this  is the right place to discuss about the changes to notify osd in karmic ie dx-karmic-notify-osd
[07:28] <tgpraveen> in that there is a Consistent feedback for multimedia keys item
[07:29] <tgpraveen> does this mean i will get a notification for every time i click play, forward, next on my keyboard. if so then is it not a abuse of the notification system. it really does not notify me of anything as i am the one who clicked and hence this would be useless
[07:30] <tgpraveen> the correct way would be that banshee upon clicking play puts a notification of the song being played <--- and this is a bug on banshee bugzilla which is being/has been fixed and now if we give notification for play key. then each time i hit play there will be two notifications one for play key and one from banshee
[07:31] <tgpraveen> am i wrong in interpreting this blueprint?
[08:04] <pitti> robert_ancell: why are bug 195737 and bug 392368 two separate bugs with two contradicting proposals?
[08:04] <pitti> robert_ancell: I'm about to sponsor the first one, but the second one confuses me
[08:06] <didrocks> good morning pitti
[08:07] <pitti> hey didrocks
[08:08] <robert_ancell> pitti, the second one is not for sponsorship. There was a lot of comments in the former bug about using fade over glide.  I opened the latter so the former can be closed without complaints
[08:09] <pitti> robert_ancell: so 195737 is "invalid"? (that's also an identified paper cut bug)
[08:09] <pitti> but why didn't you just update the bug title?
[08:11] <robert_ancell> No, 195737 is valid.  There was a request to change both animations to glide to be consistent which was agreed by everyone that this was better than the previous case (mixed animations).  The papercuts project agreed.
[08:12] <robert_ancell> As part of the discussion though people were suggesting that we shouldn't use glide at all, but instead use fade.  This has had less discussion (there are almost certainly performance effects of using fade)
[08:13] <robert_ancell> I took the position we should change from glide1+glide2 to glide2 for both and we may in the future change to fade if that is better (needs more discussion though)
[08:13] <pitti> robert_ancell: ok, could you please make 392368 a duplicate of 195737 and update the bug status/title?
[08:14] <pitti> I'm happy to sponsor this, but right now I have no idea what to change
[08:14] <pitti> so far I prepared a glide1 -> glide2 update, but then I noticed the other bug
[08:14] <robert_ancell> pitti, they are not duplicates.  195737 is essentially "be consistent" and 392368 is "fade is smoother than glide"
[08:15] <pitti> but one says "set open animation to glide-2", the other "set open animation to fade"
[08:15] <pitti> they really shouldn't both be open
[08:15] <robert_ancell> one says "open animation" the other says "open/close animations"
[08:16] <pitti> still, same contradiction for open
[08:16] <robert_ancell> "Set "open" animation to glide 2, not glide 1" = "Set open animation to be the same as close animation (i.e. glide 2)"
[08:17] <robert_ancell> "Set default window open/close animation to fade" = "Change window animations from glide to fade"
[08:17] <robert_ancell> These are probably better description, I will update them if that makes more sense
[08:18] <pitti> thanks
[08:19] <robert_ancell> pitti, updated
[08:20] <lool> yop
[08:20] <pitti> asac: bug 280214 has a simple patch; I can't commit to ~network-manager, though, can you please apply it?
[08:29] <pitti> robert_ancell: xscreensaver> nice, does that mean that the new version is actually smaller than 5.07?
[08:30] <robert_ancell> pitti, I didn't check size but it dropped a number of screensavers so I expect so!
[08:30] <pitti> \o/
[08:31] <robert_ancell> pitti, :)  Is there an easy way to query the installed size from the .deb?
[08:31] <pitti> robert_ancell: dpkg -I .deb
[08:31] <pitti> robert_ancell: but .deb size is more interesting, though
[08:31] <robert_ancell> 2160 now
[08:31] <pitti> (compressed)
[08:31] <robert_ancell> 718k
[08:31] <robert_ancell> pitti, also xscreensaver has been targeted by the papercuts proj so it will almost certainly be split (with only ~5 left in the default install)
[08:32] <pitti> nice
[08:32] <pitti> robert_ancell: 718k is -data ?
[08:32] <robert_ancell> 448k data
[08:33] <robert_ancell> 2M for -gl
[08:33] <pitti> ok, so it shrunk a little
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i figured out the gnome-screensaver upgrade issue last night
[08:53] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson, hey seb128
[08:53] <pitti> chrisccoulson: wow!
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> the screensaver issue is quite an easy fix. basically what is happening, is the old jaunty gnome-screensaver process tries to spawn the new karmic gnome-screensaver-dialog when you try to unlock the screen, and it passes it a deprecated option, causing it to fail to start
[08:55] <hyperair> what's supposed to launch devicekit-power?
[08:56] <hyperair> it doesn't seem to start up automatically =\
[08:56] <chrisccoulson> the fix is basically http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/gnome-screensaver/upgrade-fix/revision/32#debian/patches/06_unbreak_upgrade_from_jaunty.patch
[08:58] <pitti> hyperair: d-bus activated
[08:58] <pitti> hyperair: if you have -1ubuntu1, you need to dist-upgrade (that was brokeN)
[08:58] <hyperair> aha!
[08:58] <hyperair> okay then =p
[08:59] <pitti> chrisccoulson: great work!
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> pitti - if you think the patch looks correct, i'll push it to the ubuntu-desktop branch:)
[09:05] <pitti> chrisccoulson: it makes sense, anyway
[09:05] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I guess you tested it :)
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> i did, and it seems to work ok
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[09:50] <seb128> re
[09:50] <seb128> hello chrisccoulson pitti
[09:50] <seb128> nice for gnome-screensave
[09:50] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[09:56] <asac> pitti: committed. thanks
[09:56] <pitti> asac: danke
[09:58] <asac> pitti: http://pastebin.com/f1f5027de
[09:58] <asac> pitti: withotut that i cannot link against libgudev
[09:59] <asac> seems the .la files dont get the /usr/lib/ dir
[09:59] <pitti> asac: ah, indeed
[10:00] <pitti> asac: that doesn't break the .so -> so.0 symlink?
[10:00] <asac> NM builds properly with it
[10:00] <asac> let me check
[10:00] <asac> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  1022 2009-06-28 23:55 /usr/lib/libgudev-1.0.la
[10:00] <asac> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root    21 2009-06-28 23:59 /usr/lib/libgudev-1.0.so -> libgudev-1.0.so.0.0.0
[10:00] <asac> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root    21 2009-06-28 23:59 /usr/lib/libgudev-1.0.so.0 -> libgudev-1.0.so.0.0.0
[10:00] <asac> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 25800 2009-06-28 23:55 /usr/lib/libgudev-1.0.so.0.0.0
[10:01] <pitti> asac: I built devkit-disks, g-d-u etc. against it just fine
[10:01] <pitti> asac: ah right, I thought libgudev was in /lib
[10:01] <asac> no its not
[10:01] <asac> you installed them manually in usr/lib, even though make install puts them  in lib/
[10:02] <pitti> right, then libdir makes sense
[10:02] <asac> pitti: so what i could do is build NM ... however, building applet against NM would fail
[10:02] <pitti> $ grep libdir /usr/lib/libgudev-1.0.la
[10:02] <pitti> libdir='/lib'
[10:02] <asac> seems the pkg-config files of NM would get busted this way
[10:02] <pitti> ah-ha
[10:03] <pitti> asac: ok, makes sense; want to upload yourself, since you have it ready?
[10:03] <asac> pitti: yes.
[10:03] <asac> pitti: i guess i shall commit it
[10:03] <pitti> please do
[10:04] <pitti> asac: I check udev in the meantime (when Keybuk uploads this, gudev will be built by udev source, and u-extra goes away)
[10:04] <asac> pitti: ok.
[10:04] <pitti> asac: right, fixed in udev bzr head
[10:05] <asac> pitti: 20090615+1-4 is still UNRELEASED. forgot to push?
[10:06] <pitti> asac: no, forgot debcommit -r; fixed and pushed, sorry
[10:06] <asac> thx
[10:06] <pitti> asac: thanks for fixing this
[10:11] <asac> pitti: is that a native branch?
[10:11] <pitti> asac: no orig.tar.gz, yes
[10:12] <asac> pitti: the version confuses bzr builddeb then
[10:12] <asac> i think
[10:12] <asac> at least
[10:12] <asac> it has a -4 (pkg revision)
[10:12] <pitti> it's not bd'ed
[10:12] <pitti> just debuild -S
[10:13] <asac> yeah. bzr in theory bzr builddeb should work with all legal branches ;)
[10:16] <Keybuk> pitti: even my hand import of udev is failing at the moment
[10:17] <asac> pitti: i might be dense or the previous upload was dirty; just debuild -S in the branch gives me this debdiff: http://pastebin.com/f62b82257
[10:18] <pitti> asac: ah, you don't use -i?
[10:18] <pitti> asac: anyway, I can do the upload for you, might be quicker
[10:18]  * pitti does
[10:19] <asac> pitti: yeah. but even then the Makefile.in stuff et all .... also consider to use a real native version (e.g. without -1) ... that would  not confuse all the tools ;)
[10:19] <asac> pitti: thanks
[10:19] <pitti> asac: uploaded
[10:19] <asac> pitti: its all committed
[10:19] <asac> cool
[10:19] <pitti> asac: debian/README.source has some bits, but it's pretty mad for this
[10:19] <pitti> since you manually have to generate the autobreak bits :/
[10:20] <asac> pitti: hmm. put it in debian/rules ;)
[10:20] <asac> anyway. thanks. i will try to keep out of that ;)
[10:20] <pitti> well, the entire package will disappear in a matter of days :)
[10:20] <asac> good ;)
[10:30] <Keybuk> pitti: am guessing that kay has rebased this tree in some way :-/
[10:31] <pitti> yay rebase
[10:32] <Keybuk> ah, no
[10:32] <Keybuk> just a non-trunk merge
[10:32] <Keybuk> bzr fast-import is not very good
[10:32] <Keybuk> if someone does their own development, merges from trunk, then pushes
[10:33] <Keybuk> sometimes it can't work it out
[10:38] <Keybuk> of course, this now means I have to push --overwrite and upset everyone ;)
[10:38] <pitti> I'll remember to pull --overwrite :)
[10:40]  * didrocks prepares to be upset :)
[10:54] <Keybuk> pitti: uploaded GIT head
[10:54] <Keybuk> let's see if it builds ;)
[10:54] <pitti> Keybuk: thanks!
[11:19] <andreasn> mpt, did any more action happen on this? http://live.gnome.org/Nautilus/ProgressWindow
[11:19] <mpt> andreasn, not that I know of
[11:20] <andreasn> I wonder if it's easier to implement in baby steps. Right now the thing that hurts my eyes the most with that dialog is the lack of a word in the cancel button, so I'm looking into fixing that by hand
[11:40] <seb128> ok, I've cleaned my emails backlog from the weekend, took me some hours
[11:46] <pitti> seb128: \o/
[11:47] <pitti> Keybuk: seems udev didn't actually get accepted?
[11:48] <Keybuk> yeah, dunno why ;)
[11:49] <Keybuk> think I forgot the tarball
[11:49]  * Keybuk uploads again
[11:58] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, some *.install file is broken, it seems (scsi -> ata renaming?)
[11:58] <Keybuk> pitti: yeah was just reading that
[11:58] <Keybuk> I think Kay dropped scsi_id.config ;)
[12:02]  * Keybuk tries again
[12:10] <Keybuk> oh arse, missed the udeb
[12:56] <seb128> hey mvo
[12:57] <mvo> hey seb128
[12:57] <seb128> mvo, did you have a chance to review my update-notifier changes? ;-)
[12:58] <mvo> seb128: not yet, let me do it now
[12:59] <seb128> mvo, no hurry I was just curious don't bother if you are busy with other things
[13:13] <mvo> seb128: merged
[13:13] <mvo> seb128: I upload in a bit
[13:14] <seb128_> re
[13:14] <seb128_> mvo, I was saying that I pushed a minor change
 seb128: merged
[13:15] <seb128_> dunno if you read that or wrote something
[13:15] <mvo>  seb128: I upload in a bit
[13:15] <mvo> uploaded
[13:15] <mvo> yes, I saw the change
[13:15] <seb128_> ok cool
[13:15]  * seb128_ hugs mvo
[13:39] <pitti> Keybuk: I updated ubuntu-meta to not pull in udev-extras any more
[14:06] <pitti> udev-extras killed from archive, too
[14:07] <Keybuk> cool
[15:29] <rickspencer3> pitti: hi. so can I try automagic python build on Jaunty?
[15:31] <pitti> rickspencer3: https://edge.launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/apport-retracer has backports for hardy, intrepid, and jaunty
[15:32] <rickspencer3> pitti: so should we go ahead and implement $quickly package?
[15:32] <pitti> rickspencer3: I did a ton of fixes and improvements over the weekend, so the upstream build/install part works wonderfully now
[15:32] <pitti> apport and jockey are fully converted
[15:32] <rickspencer3> !
[15:32] <pitti> rickspencer3: well, it doesn't build a debian/ dir for you yet
[15:32] <rickspencer3> I can try it on bug-zapper later today
[15:32] <rickspencer3> what does it do?
[15:33] <pitti> rickspencer3: "./setup.py build" and "./setup.py install" now DTRT
[15:33] <pitti> they know how to generate POTFILES.in, extract translations, where *.ui and D-BUS files need to go, all that
[15:33] <rickspencer3> pitti: can we just write a few lines of code in package.py to kick of building the deb?
[15:34] <rickspencer3> wow
[15:36] <pitti> rickspencer3: for a general template, yes; figuring out build/binary dependencies is the tricky part
[15:45] <mpt> mvo, glatzor_: How many top-level application categories are there for a .desktop file? Ubuntu has ~6 out of the box (Accessories, Games, Graphics, Internet, Office, Sound & Video), but how many others are there?
[15:46] <mvo> mpt: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html should have them
[15:47] <mvo> mpt: well, all of them :)
[15:47] <mpt> ah, great, thank you
[15:49] <mpt> mvo, is there an easy way at the moment of browsing the Ubuntu applications that are in those "Additional Categories"?
[15:55] <mvo> mpt: not from the top of my head, maybe seb128 knows? the information is available in /usr/share/app-install/data
[16:39] <pitti> kenvandine: for quite a while, most of the time the u1 file sync is disconnected for me; do you have this as well? is it intended?
[16:46] <pitti> rickspencer3, didrocks: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-quickly is still in drafting, can this get ready this week?
[16:46] <rickspencer3> pitti: yes ... sorry, thought it was done
[16:48] <pitti> rickspencer3: FYI, we are down to 4 specs in drafting
[17:58] <didrocks> pitti, rickspencer3: I modified and integrated pitti's remark a week ago.
[17:59] <pitti> didrocks: oh, can you please set it back to 'review' then, when you are done with editing?
[17:59] <didrocks> pitti: I just first wanted that rickspencer3 agrees to my changes. That's why I didn't set it to "review" yet :)
[18:00] <didrocks> pitti: can you please send me or pastebin an example of setup.py file for AutomagicPythonBuildSystem so that I can work on it for quickly?
[18:01] <pitti> didrocks: the one on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/AutomagicPythonBuildSystem is actually still relevant
[18:01] <didrocks> pitti: perfect, thanks :)
[18:01] <pitti> didrocks: the real jockey setup.py looks slightly more complicated:
[18:01] <pitti> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ejockey-hackers/jockey/trunk/annotate/head%3A/setup.py
[18:02] <pitti> didrocks: but that's just to be nice to other upstreams who package it (distutils version check), you don't need that
[18:02] <pitti> and two special cases in the source layout (which are uncommon for your class of apps as well)
[18:03] <didrocks> pitti: ok. I will just try to figure out the changes (distutils version check ;)) just for my self understanding :)
[18:42] <pitti> good night everyone
[18:46] <artir> o/
[22:17] <didrocks> rickspencer3: I think you really should bzr pull now :)
[22:17]  * rickspencer3 pulls
[22:17] <didrocks> rickspencer3: I added support for executing any command wherever you are in the project tree
[22:17] <rickspencer3> didrocks: that is soooo awesome!
[22:18] <didrocks> rickspencer3: the good news is that it's transparent for templates command ;) You just have to act as if you are always in the directory root path :)
[22:19] <didrocks> so, I didn't have the time to work on release command. I will do it tomorrow
[22:19] <didrocks> time to go to bed. Have a good evening!
[22:20] <rickspencer3> sweet!
[22:20] <rickspencer3> it seems to work very well
[22:20] <rickspencer3> g'night!
[22:21] <didrocks> great ;)
[22:21] <didrocks> thanks, you too!
[22:23] <seb128_> 'night didrocks
[22:30] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128_ - you happy with the gnome-screensaver patch i mentioned earlier? i was going to push it to bzr before i go to sleep
[22:31] <seb128_> chrisccoulson, where is it? I've not seen the code change but what you described made sense
[22:31] <seb128> urg, wrong click
[22:32] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - the patch is here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/gnome-screensaver/upgrade-fix/revision/32#debian/patches/06_unbreak_upgrade_from_jaunty.patch
[22:33] <seb128> looks correct yes
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> cool, i'll push that change now
[22:33] <seb128> can you push to bzr I will upload
[22:33] <seb128> thanks
[22:34] <Laney> I have no luck getting this hardy pidgin patch to work
[22:34] <Laney> something wrong with ssl
[22:34] <seb128> did you look at what other distros do?
[22:36] <Laney> couldn't find it easily
[22:36] <Laney> i'll see if we can at least backport 2.5.7
[22:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've pushed the gnome-screensaver change in to ubuntu-desktop branch now
[22:43] <seb128> just curious but how did you debug this one?
[22:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you send the change to GNOME?
[22:46] <chrisccoulson> not yet. i can attach the patch to the upstream bug report though
[22:46] <seb128> uploaded
[22:46] <chrisccoulson> thanks:)
[22:46] <seb128> I see that you commented, you can as well add the patch too
[22:47] <seb128> thank you for the work on that, I was not sure how to debug it but I know that could be annoying issue for users ;-)
[22:47] <seb128> btw did you apply for motu now? ;-)
[22:47] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i was expecting it to take a while to debug, as i don't know the gnome-screensaver code all that well, but it only took 30 minutes
[22:48] <chrisccoulson> i havent got around to applying just yet. i keep getting side-tracked with other work at the moment
[22:48] <seb128> how did you debug it?
[22:48] <chrisccoulson> i need to set aside some time this week really;)
[22:48] <seb128> there was something interesting in the log? or stracing?
[22:48] <chrisccoulson> i just ran gnome-screensaver --debug and watched the console output
[22:48] <seb128> debug logs can be useful ;-)
[22:48] <chrisccoulson> the error messages from gnome-screensaver-dialog get piped back to gnome-screensaver and then printed on the console
[22:49] <chrisccoulson> nice and easy:)
[22:49] <seb128> if you don't hurry for motu you might be after the archive reorganization and have no motu team to join ;-)
[22:49] <chrisccoulson> i'll try and sort it this week then;)
[22:50] <seb128> cool
[22:50] <seb128> ok, enough work for me for today, good night everybody
[22:50] <seb128> see you tomorrow
[22:51] <chrisccoulson> good night seb128
[22:52] <pochu> night seb
[22:57] <djsiegel> seb128 rickspencer3-afk pitti: any idea who could handle a bug like this: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/389212
[22:58] <djsiegel> I want to get some more info on it, and maybe get someone looking into the complexity of the change.
[22:59] <seb128> djsiegel, I would say pitti or me, the description seems misleading though
[22:59] <djsiegel> just changed it :)
[22:59] <seb128> djsiegel, what is an internal partition for you?
[22:59] <djsiegel> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/389212
[22:59] <djsiegel> seb128: oh, you saw the new description
[23:00] <djsiegel> an internal partition is at least a partition on the save physical disk as your main partition
[23:00] <seb128> djsiegel, we don't show icons for things automatically mounted at boot on the desktop, that's a policy we have since ubuntu has been created
[23:00] <djsiegel> same*
[23:00] <djsiegel> seb128: right, I agree
[23:00] <seb128> djsiegel, we don't display those on the desktop right now
[23:00] <djsiegel> I am just being explicit
[23:00] <djsiegel> seb128: yes, I know
[23:00] <seb128> what we display is ie your vista partition if you mounted it
[23:00] <seb128> which you disagree with?
[23:00] <djsiegel> yes, I get it...
[23:00] <djsiegel> no
[23:00] <djsiegel> ahh
[23:01] <seb128> so I don't understand the bug
[23:01] <djsiegel> I am saying, internal partitions should mount at boot
[23:01] <seb128> sounds a complicate discussion
[23:01] <chrisccoulson> djsiegel - that should be for the adminstrator to decide by specfying them in fstab
[23:01] <chrisccoulson> shouldnt it?
[23:01] <seb128> we explicitly don't do that
[23:01] <djsiegel> well, we need to discuss it
[23:01] <seb128> otherwise you quickly hit the "n mount counter"
[23:01] <seb128> which means long fsck on boot, etc
[23:01] <djsiegel> seems like it's something administrators wouldn't rely on as a default
[23:02] <seb128> we decide to mount partition "on demand" right now
[23:02] <djsiegel> and many users have multiple partitions and are confused by fstab
[23:02] <seb128> that avoid all the trouble about accessing something you don't use
[23:02] <seb128> there is a bug requesting to have an property option to select what partitions to mount on boot
[23:02] <djsiegel> seb128: yes, I see that one
[23:03] <seb128> I think that would be the right way
[23:03] <seb128> but that's not a papercut, too much work for that
[23:03] <djsiegel> right
[23:03] <pitti> djsiegel: no, spare internal partitions should absolutely not be automounted at boot by default; this does happen on the live CD, but that's a bug (I'm on it)
[23:03] <djsiegel> Well, I have nominated this one from a user-centered design perspective.
[23:03] <djsiegel> pitti: why?
[23:03] <djsiegel> pitti: I am here to find out why
[23:03] <djsiegel> pitti: I am representing the user only here
[23:03] <pitti> djsiegel: especially not if they are windows partitions
[23:04] <djsiegel> users are confused and want access to their data
[23:04] <pitti> they might have a hibernation image, or be unclean, and then mounting them could wreak havoc
[23:04] <seb128> djsiegel, for one reason you would trigger the disk check for those partitions you don't use every n boot which take a while
[23:04] <pitti> they can mount their windows partition in the places menu
[23:04] <djsiegel> hmm
[23:04] <pitti> djsiegel: also, we can't automount them anyway since that requires admin powers, thus we need to ask for the users' password
[23:04] <djsiegel> pitti: do we block them from mounting their parition if it has a hibernation image?
[23:05] <pitti> and "their" data is on /home
[23:05] <seb128> pitti, (not really true, the system could mount everything on boot)
[23:05] <pitti> djsiegel: no, we don't, but if you explicitly mount it, you can have an UI which points out problems, etc.
[23:05] <pitti> seb128: right, but we don't want that
[23:05] <djsiegel> pitti: really?
[23:06] <djsiegel> Well, I am still convinced we need to explore this further, technical problems withstanding.
[23:06] <djsiegel> I hear "absolutely not! no way! we don't do it that way!", but if it still creates a bad user experience, I am still interested
[23:06] <seb128> djsiegel, why do you want to mount everything on boot?
[23:06] <djsiegel> sounds like it's not a paper cut though
[23:06] <seb128> the computer location icons make it transparent
[23:06] <pitti> this was discussed several times already, actually, and IIRC the main blockers for automounting were potential data integrity breakage
[23:06] <Laney> pidgin hardy-backports seems to work at least
[23:06] <seb128> users don't have to know if things are mounted or not, they just have to use those
[23:07] <seb128> the system will do the mounting in an almost transparent way if required
[23:07] <djsiegel> seb128: bug reports from users who have multiple partitions indicating problems with those partitions not being mounted
[23:07] <djsiegel> trouble making them automount
[23:07] <djsiegel> etc.
[23:07] <seb128> let's fix those bugs?
[23:07] <pitti> djsiegel: "multiple partitions" in what sense?
[23:07] <djsiegel> this is one way to fix them
[23:07] <pitti> djsiegel: everything which has the Ubuntu system is set up by the installer
[23:07] <seb128> I can guaranty you you will get higher number of bugs the other way around
[23:07] <djsiegel> pitti: people with a media partition, or a windows partition, or an HFS+ partition in my case
[23:07] <djsiegel> they share music or photos, desktop wallpapers
[23:08] <seb128> the right way is to let you select what partitions to auto-mount
[23:08] <djsiegel> machine boots, does not mount the partition, and things misbehave
[23:08] <pitti> djsiegel: it would be nice to make it configurable to automount some partition by default indeed
[23:08] <seb128> not to auto-mount 15 partitions you don't use at every boot
[23:08] <djsiegel> seb128: do users have 15 partitions?
[23:08] <pitti> but I don't think we should greedily mount everything we can
[23:08] <seb128> triggering disk checks for those, etc
[23:08] <djsiegel> pitti: I agree
[23:08] <djsiegel> pitti: that's what I want to find out about this bug
[23:08] <seb128> djsiegel, it's a slight exageration but I've 7-8 of those on my old desktop install
[23:09] <djsiegel> I definitely think we should not do it if users have above a certain number
[23:09] <djsiegel> like 3
[23:09] <seb128> 2 linux install with user directory, user,etc , one xp etc etc
[23:09] <pitti> djsiegel: so perhaps we can rename it to "offer possibility to automount a particular partition"?
[23:09] <djsiegel> pitti: so, that needs discussion
[23:09] <seb128> djsiegel, why would you want to automount the system partition of an another linux install?
[23:09] <djsiegel> pitti: what kind of users have extra partitions?
[23:09] <djsiegel> will they know what automount is?
[23:10] <djsiegel> where to look for it?
[23:10] <djsiegel> I am assuming very basic users who cannot figure this out
[23:10] <djsiegel> but maybe users with multiple partitions are usually advanced?
[23:10] <pitti> djsiegel: I don't think that "very basic" users will care at all
[23:10] <pitti> but a second windows partition is probably pretty common
[23:10] <seb128> very basis users click on the icon in nautilus and the mounting is transparent
[23:10] <djsiegel> pitti: well, below a certain threshold, yes :)
[23:10] <pitti> second/third linux partitions less so -> those are the power users
[23:10] <seb128> I don't see the issue with that
[23:11] <seb128> they don't even know if was not mounted
[23:11] <djsiegel> so, I used to use Mac OS
[23:11] <seb128> but we avoid all the technical issue
[23:11] <pitti> well, they get asked for their pwd
[23:11] <djsiegel> and it doesn't have this concept of present-but-not-mounted in the Finder
[23:11] <djsiegel> internal partitions are just there
[23:11] <djsiegel> just like "Macintosh HD"
[23:11] <djsiegel> your main partition
[23:11] <seb128> well do you know that partitions are not mounted in nautilus?
[23:11] <djsiegel> yes
[23:11] <seb128> how?
[23:11] <djsiegel> what's your point?
[23:12] <seb128> let's make those look like they are mounted
[23:12] <seb128> users don't need to know they are not if that happens transparently
[23:12] <djsiegel> well, part of the problem is not explicit user action
[23:12] <seb128> so you don't trigger unrequired mounts at boot and users are not confused
[23:12] <djsiegel> it's importing music or videos or photos from another partition
[23:12] <djsiegel> or setting a desktop wallpaper
[23:12] <djsiegel> after reboot, this content seems missing
[23:13] <seb128> well any application accessing one of those devices should mount it if it's not
[23:13] <djsiegel> I agree, we definitely should have automount control in something easier to use than ftab
[23:13] <djsiegel> like that other bug says
[23:13] <seb128> +1 from me
[23:13] <djsiegel> but I am also wondering if there is any way to make an intelligent guess for the user
[23:13] <seb128> there might be but that's not a papercut bug
[23:14] <djsiegel> If Ubuntu guesses I want a certain partition and mounts it at boot, that is a huge ease-of-use win
[23:14] <djsiegel> well, what about a simple heuristic?
[23:14] <seb128> we need to think carefully about all the bugs you will hit
[23:14] <djsiegel> like, your Windows partition?
[23:14] <seb128> like disk check every n mount
[23:14] <djsiegel> ah, but the hibernation problem
[23:14] <seb128> the hibernation issue
[23:14] <djsiegel> does mounting a hibernated disk mess it up necessarily?
[23:15] <seb128> you don't want to get your 300gig vista disk blocking your boot for an hour if you don't use it
[23:15] <seb128> not sure about the hibernation thing
[23:15] <djsiegel> that's for sure
[23:15] <djsiegel> well, we should definitely not fsck partitions we don't own by default
[23:16] <chrisccoulson> do you want a feature like this: http://flomertens.free.fr/disk-manager/features.html ?
[23:16] <seb128> some of the partitions might also be password protected
[23:16] <pitti> also, once a windows partition gets a slightly corrupted FS, and we keep automoutning it, it will only aggravate
[23:16] <pitti> and we don't have perfect tools to fix them
[23:16] <pitti> of course that's more of an "excuse" than a solid technical reason, but we have to live with not having those tools
[23:16] <djsiegel> chrisccoulson: yes, maybe something more like that
[23:17] <djsiegel> "It appears your hard disc contains the following additional partitions:"
[23:17] <chrisccoulson> i've used it before, but that project is unmaintained now. might be a good starting point though
[23:17] <djsiegel> then the use can choose to mount them at startup
[23:17] <djsiegel> ok, this looks way to big to be a paper cut now
[23:17] <djsiegel> but still, I think we made some progres
[23:17] <djsiegel> s
[23:18] <djsiegel> too*
[23:28] <seb128> ok, really enough for this time, see you tomorrow
[23:28] <djsiegel> pitti chrisccoulson: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/393645
[23:28] <djsiegel> what do you think?
[23:31] <chrisccoulson> djsiegel - i'm not sure about just dropping "encrypt" or "sign" - i sometimes use them at the moment, but i'm not sure how many other people use them. if they were dropped, then i wouldn't know how else to access this functionality, or where else the functionality would belong.
[23:31] <chrisccoulson> but i agree that the current context menu looks quite cluttered
[23:34] <djsiegel> chrisccoulson: many people use them, but fifty times as many do not and are confused by them (my assumption) :)
[23:34] <djsiegel> does nautilus have a plugins window?
[23:34] <djsiegel> to easily enable and configure plugins?
[23:34] <chrisccoulson> quite possibly. but if they were removed, the functionality would have to go elsewhere
[23:34] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure about plugins
[23:34] <djsiegel> chrisccoulson: I think they are in a plugin already
[23:34] <djsiegel> it's just installed by default
[23:35] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think they are. i don't know if its possible to disable them at runtime though
[23:56] <awalton> djsiegel, they're installed by seahorse
[23:56] <awalton> and no, nautilus doesn't have a plugin window nor a way to disable/add plugins at runtime
[23:57] <djsiegel> awalton: ok, thanks, that's what I thought
[23:57] <awalton> yw


[01:16] <bittin> i ended up on the new FreeBSD Foundation website: https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/what-we-do/grants/ o:
[01:39] <daftykins> bittin: why are you cross posting that?
[01:39] <daftykins> it's not really welcome behaviour.
[02:58] <m0nkey_> heh
[02:58] <m0nkey_> you're going to hate me
[02:58] <m0nkey_> i like freebsd
[02:58] <daftykins> i just saw it in another channel, normally it's trolls that attack the same set of channels at once
[05:16] <ali1234> daftykins: why are trolls posting a boring website? was it defaced earlier or something?
[08:08] <LibreSponge> Morning all https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/25566396561/in/photostream/
[08:09] <LibreSponge> Happy Good Friday :) https://www.gov.uk/bank-holidays
[08:13] <knightwise> morning
[08:15] <LibreSponge> knightwise: Hey About being Scarey yesterday :) ....
[08:16] <LibreSponge> knightwise: My name isn't Wayne's (World) !
[08:17] <knightwise> :)
[08:17] <LibreSponge> Take a chill pill .. http://www.u2.com/media/player/112/5
[08:17] <LibreSponge> :)
[09:45] <LibreSponge> "1% of the world is enough to change the world" https://twitter.com/buzzgen/status/703281477568450560
[09:48] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[12:23] <knightwise> hey brobostigon
[12:24] <brobostigon> hi knightwise
[12:24] <knightwise> Grr .. need to figure out to sync a folder from my raspberry pi across to my other machines
[12:24] <knightwise> dropbox doesnt seem to want to coöperate
[12:27] <zmoylan-pi> rasp pi doesn't do dropbox properly, does it?
[12:34] <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: no :(
[12:35] <knightwise> I was thinking of installing podget on the rasp and then syncing over the downloaded files to my different machines
[12:37] <TwistedLucidity> knightwise: ownCloud, sugarsync...rsync madness?
[12:37] <zmoylan-pi> you'd think by now someone would have made a rasp pi client...
[12:37] <knightwise> plain Rsync might do the trick
[12:39] <TwistedLucidity> As long as it's one-way; probably easiest
[12:40] <knightwise> ok , so i'm running nautilus and  mount a folder on my pi over ssh
[12:40] <knightwise> it turns up on the nautilus app .. but how do i access this folder from the command line ?
[12:40] <knightwise> its not mounted in /media/
[12:42] <zmoylan-pi> does nautilus not show a url indicating it's mount?
[12:42] <penguin42> oh it's probably fuse mounted somewhere; or possibly entirely userspace with nothing through the kernel
[12:42] <knightwise> gotit !
[12:43] <knightwise> i can just rightclick the folder and choose 'open in terminal'
[12:43] <zmoylan-pi> and if you use pwd what does it say?
[12:44] <knightwise> run/user .. etc etc
[12:44] <knightwise> cant copy paste it , opened it up in a vm , sorry
[12:45] <penguin42> is it something like /home/knightwise/.gnome/magicgump/stuff/mount ?
[13:11] <knightwise> nope
[13:11] <knightwise> it also has the sftp link in there and stuff.
[13:29] <knightwise> ok ,
[13:30] <lopta> Do Dell in the UK sell laptops with Ubuntu on them?
[13:31] <zmoylan-pi> yes, you just have to find them
[13:32] <lopta> I'm in the U.S. and noticed today that they're prominent on the Dell Website here.
[13:32] <lopta> Looks as though they have four models, mostly high-end.
[13:35] <lopta> Sorry, five models.
[13:37] <knightwise> lopta: i have dell xps13 , bought it in Belgium.
[13:49] <lopta> I thought that was nice, anyway.
[13:55] <TwistedLucidity> Yeah, better than where they used to hide them. I think they might still be treated like a leper in the UK though. Dunno. I treat Dell like a leper!
[17:16] <diddledan> TwistedLucidity: you mean you take them into your home and care for their affliction like the charitable person you are?
[17:17] <diddledan> TwistedLucidity: or do you mean you stick your middle finger up at them and pretend they don't exist?
[17:18] <diddledan> someone's honking
[17:19] <diddledan> lord, were you there, were you there.
[17:19] <TwistedLucidity> diddledan: I meant in the sense of "I avoid them"
[17:20] <TwistedLucidity> Which I believe is the typical meaning when "such-and-such is treated like a leper"
[17:20] <TwistedLucidity> Maybe I'm wrong
[17:20] <diddledan> yeah, most people hide lepers away but the kind care for them :-p
[17:21] <zmoylan-pi> as long as they print ascii character 7 every few seconds i don't mind them...
[17:22]  * diddledan wanders-off to find an ascii card
[17:22] <diddledan> chart*
[17:22] <diddledan> aha, bell
[17:38] <m0nkey_> https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bruce+Wayne's+Residence/@42.7623411,-83.283347,17.75z/data=!4m6!1m3!3m2!1s0x0:0x621ac62e50ef15c!2sBruce+Wayne's+Residence!3m1!1s0x0:0x621ac62e50ef15c
[17:38] <knightwise> ha !
[17:38] <knightwise> Setup podget on my Raspberry pi to download my daily dose of podcasts.
[17:39] <knightwise> That way i can stream them off there from anywhere I want :)
[19:02] <mappps> new crminal minds series isnt horrible
[19:02] <mappps> beyond borders
[19:03] <daftykins> time for an outdoor hobby mappps ;)
[19:04] <daftykins> speaking of - had the maiden voyage of my clients' DJI drone today
[19:04] <zmoylan-pi> it sank?
[19:04] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/e96k9fjnojg9opu/VID_20160325_152814.mp4?dl=0
[19:05] <daftykins> nope!
[19:07] <mappps> i try paddle and im hopeless daftykins
[19:07] <mappps> ;[
[19:07] <daftykins> aww
[19:07] <daftykins> like a canoe or kayak?
[19:27] <knightwise> ha
[19:27] <knightwise> serversalive is a great app on the ipad
[19:27] <knightwise> ssh into pi, run irssi from there
[19:30] <daftykins> so it's just an SSH client?
[19:33] <knightwise> my pi ?
[19:34] <knightwise> does podcasts, rss feed etcetc
[19:34] <knightwise> podcatcher
[19:34] <zmoylan-pi> it's your sidekick, your igor...
[19:34] <knightwise> indeed
[19:34] <daftykins> no the serversalive app
[19:35] <daftykins> on android i use JuiceSSH
[19:35] <knightwise> always funny to see the cheapest computer in the house gets the most action
[19:35] <knightwise> serversalive is a general ssh client
[19:35] <daftykins> just shows you're doing the wrong things with the rest! ;)
[19:35] <knightwise> depends
[19:35] <zmoylan-pi> you can leave the pi on 24x7 and not worry about leccy bill or it over heating
[19:36] <knightwise> i just love using command line apps because they are pretty distraction free
[19:36] <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: indeed
[19:37] <knightwise> its been up for almost 90days now
[19:37] <penguin42> doesn't worry about his low power x86 either, it's still more than a Pi, but at about 25w it's still only a few pence a day
[19:37] <zmoylan-pi> mine averages 6 months between various reboots
[19:37] <penguin42> and that's not a really low power build
[19:38] <knightwise> also have a reddit client , word prosessor , rss reader, youtube downloader ...
[19:38] <zmoylan-pi> mine runs on a phone charger :-)
[19:38] <knightwise> so does mine
[19:38] <knightwise> gotta go . tme for netflix and chill
[19:38] <zmoylan-pi> newsbeuter for rss, irssi for irc, tmux to run both on screen at same time.  ttytter for twitter i use sometimes...
[19:38] <daftykins> i'm typing to you now from an SSH session into a VM running irssi, it's not on a Pi though ;)
[19:39] <daftykins> CLI is indeed ace
[20:04] <mappps> daftykins,  noo paddle tennis
[20:05] <mappps> played in spain and south america and in gib
[20:11] <daftykins> is that the same as table tennis?