[09:00]  * apw yawns
[09:03]  * smb notes the world is brighter outside today
[09:04] <smb> Must be that white stuff that suddenly appeared
[09:06] <apw> heh .. we may have a sunny day here for the first time in at least a month
[09:09] <smb> We had some of that too until today, which is dry but cold. Soon it is supposed to get warmer again and wet...
[09:11]  * apw wills the grass to grow
[14:01] <zequence> infinity: Hi. Will do right away. Been away for a couple of days
[14:46] <TooLmaN> Hi guys.  I'm building my first Core system.  What 12.04 kernel file should I grab from packages.ubuntu.com/precise/kernel/?  The test unit only has 1GB RAM so I'm guessing 'linux-generic'?  Thanks
[14:51] <TooLmaN> The kernel file is only a 1.7KB .DEB.  Is that correct?
[14:51] <TooLmaN> seems way too small
[14:54] <TooLmaN> ok found a 35MB file that seems the right size.  linux-image-3.2.0-56-generic-pae_i386
[14:54] <apw> TooLmaN, linux-generic is the meta package not eh kernel itself
[14:55] <TooLmaN> apw: well that would make sense  lol
[14:55] <TooLmaN> following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core/InstallationExample.  It just says to grab a kernel from packages.ubuntu.com.  Pretty vague to me
[14:59] <apw> TooLmaN, yeah it makes sense when you know what you are writing, but not to a new person, it is a wiki so if you have better words do change it, or add an example or something
[15:00] <TooLmaN> apw: I'll get it working before I try to change the wiki.  Thanks for the info.
[15:01] <apw> TooLmaN, sure, just do fix it if it is confusing, as the next one will glad of it
[15:03] <TooLmaN> apw, will do.  Trying to revive some older Wyse terminals as minimal Ubu boxes.
[15:05]  * ppisati disappears for a bit
[15:26] <sforshee> rtg: I've been messing with this module signing thing some more, and when I build the package the modules are all signed
[15:26] <rtg> sforshee, thats what I found. I'm just downloading from the archive to check those packages
[15:27] <sforshee> rtg: I'm pretty sure I did that yesterday and found that they really aren't signed
[15:27] <rtg> sforshee, well, what extra step does the buildd perform ? I wonder if an sbuilder could reproduce this ?
[15:28] <apw> sforshee, what not working with signing for you ?
[15:28] <apw> rtg, ^^
[15:28] <sforshee> apw: all the modules that come from the kernel package (i.e. not in -extras) are lacking signatures
[15:28] <apw> if you build it locally?
[15:29] <sforshee> no, they're there if I build locally
[15:29] <rtg> apw, and I just confirmed that.
[15:30] <rtg> how odd
[15:30] <rtg> apw, is that signed bullshit ?
[15:31] <rtg> is this*
[15:31] <sforshee> huh, actually if I download the package and unpack it the signatures are there
[15:31] <apw> which files are you checking if not hte ones in the package ?
[15:32] <rtg> sforshee, I'm not finding _any_ signatures in linux-image-3.12.0-4-generic_3.12.0-4.10_amd64.deb
[15:32] <rtg> dpkg -x linux-image-3.12.0-4-generic_3.12.0-4.10_amd64.deb tmp;find . -name "*.ko"|while read f;do if ! egrep -q "Module signature appended" $f;then echo $f;fi;done
[15:32] <sforshee> rtg: you're right, I checked the wrong file
[15:33] <rtg> apw, so, I'll bet this has something to do with the way the signed kernel is built, huh ?
[15:41] <apw> rtg, i think we have no problem :)
[15:41] <rtg> apw, explain ?
[15:43] <infinity> Are you stripping one package differently from the other?
[15:44] <infinity> Can't see how it would relate to the signed kernel, since that happens in an entirely different package, and is just vmlinux.
[15:45] <rtg> infinity, well, it doesn't happen with a local build. linux-image from the archive has no signatures. therefore, it seems that it must be something that happens on the builder (like the signing process).
[15:46] <infinity> The module signing process, perhaps, but not the kernel signing process.
[15:46] <infinity> It has to be something that happens during the linux build, not any other package.
[15:47] <infinity> And if it can't be reproduced locally, your local setup might not be as close to a proper package build as you think.
[15:47]  * infinity grabs the source to test.
[15:47] <rtg> infinity, all modules are signed the same way regardless of the package they ultimately end up in.
[15:48] <infinity> rtg: Yes, and then some are being "unsigned".  But that can only be happening during the package build, as we don't touch the packages once the buildd has given us a hash of all the debs it just created. :P
[15:49] <rtg> infinity, don't you have to touch linux-image in order to sign vmlinuz ?
[15:50] <infinity> rtg: No, vmlinuz isn't signed in linux-image.
[15:50] <infinity> rtg: Only in linux-signed-image.  Which pulls a copy of vmlinuz to sign it.  But certainly doesn't do ANYTHING to the original package.
[15:50] <infinity> (Not that we could even if we wanted to)
[15:58] <apw> right (sorry had a contractor here)
[15:58] <apw> module and kernle signing is separate
[15:58] <apw> you are saying some modules are unsigned, which ones
[15:59] <rtg> apw, yep, I see that signing _is_ separate
[15:59] <rtg> apw, so, even on ckt this is happening. linux-image modules are unsigned, whereas linux-image-extra _are_ signed.
[16:00] <apw> rtg, and yet in the main archive not ?  (i assume it must be the same in the main as well)
[16:00] <apw> which version are you checking
[16:00] <rtg> apw, yes, it is the same in the main archive as well
[16:01] <apw> that seems unexpected as we make the extra package by making the main package as normal
[16:01] <rtg> apw, I've been looking at trusty in ckt (but I don't think version really matters)
[16:01] <apw> and hten moving the modules from the install to a new package
[16:01] <infinity> Version matters, as this is a recently-introduced bug.
[16:02] <rtg> infinity, actually, its been going on for awhile
[16:02] <infinity> How far back?
[16:02] <rtg> at least saucy for sure
[16:02] <infinity> What's the LP bug again?
[16:02] <apw> so give me a module which is in main so i can check on my saucy box
[16:02] <rtg> apw, lib/modules/3.13.0-0-generic/kernel/sound/pci/snd-ens1370.ko
[16:03] <infinity> apw: dpkg -L linux-image-$(uname -r) | grep modules
[16:04] <jsalisbury> **
[16:04] <jsalisbury> ** Ubuntu Kernel Team Meeting - Today @ 17:00 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
[16:04] <jsalisbury> **
[16:04] <apw> rtg, and how are we confirming they are unsigned
[16:05] <sforshee> apw: I'm looking for the string "Module signature appended" at the end
[16:05] <rtg> apw, find /lib/modules/`uname -r` -name "*.ko"|while read f;do if ! egrep -q "Module signature appended" $f;then echo $f;fi;done
[16:05] <rtg> apw, make sure you installed from the archive and not some local crack
[16:06] <sforshee> apw: I've got a saucy install here which seems to have the same results as with trusty
[16:07] <infinity> So, yeah, definitely unsigned in image and signed in image-extra here on 3.11.0-13-generic
[16:07] <infinity> Weeeeird.
[16:07] <infinity> Would be nice to figure out when this started being true.
[16:08] <apw> so that makes some sense, as extra is the 'left overs' from a proper install
[16:08] <apw> i can only assume we are stripping them as we move them over
[16:08] <apw> though i thought we used mv
[16:08] <rtg> apw, we're not as far as I can tell
[16:08] <rtg> I mean, we _are_ using mv
[16:09] <apw> yeah, we are  ... so it is some post processing on linux-image which differs
[16:10] <apw> the package processing is the same too ?
[16:10] <rtg> skipdbg ?
[16:11] <apw> skipbdg ?
[16:11] <apw> we do run depmod on the ones in the main package
[16:12] <apw> and not on the ones in the other
[16:12] <rtg> apw, depmod isn't supposed to update anything.
[16:12] <apw> right i assume it is not but i was looking for differnces
[16:13] <apw> for 'skipdbg' we are makgin a separate version
[16:13] <apw> a separate install out of the kernel tree
[16:13] <rtg> apw, yeah, we're also doing an objcopy.
[16:14] <apw> yeah just saw that and yep i bet that is breaking it
[16:14] <apw> who got us to add that, kamal maybe
[16:14] <infinity> So, extra is definitely built in a "special" way.  I imagine linux-image is getting stripped, and extra not.
[16:14] <rtg> lemme build with skipdbg=false
[16:14] <apw> infinity, no i think this is the objlink thing
[16:15] <kamal> apw, we're talking about what now?
[16:15] <rtg> infinity, I think its a post processing step that only happens on the buildds 'cause skipdbg keeps us from locally building a _giant_ debug file
[16:15] <rtg> kamal, we're pretty sure its your fault
[16:15] <kamal> rtg, well obviously, but it doesn't ring a bell to me
[16:16] <kamal> (not that that means much)
[16:16] <rtg> actually, this may go back a long ways. perhaps feisty.
[16:16] <kamal> soooo before my time
[16:17] <rtg> yeah, we're just yanking your chain.
[16:17] <kamal> yup
[16:30] <apw> rtg, so if the key has not been wacked when we package you might be able to do this again:
[16:30] <apw> Makefile:mod_sign_cmd = perl $(srctree)/scripts/sign-file $(CONFIG_MODULE_SIG_HASH) $(MODSECKEY) $(MODPUBKEY)
[16:31] <rtg> apw, yep, just looking at that file
[16:31] <apw> if we can resign them then it might be easier
[16:31] <apw> rather than changing the the main kernel makefiles
[16:32] <apw> and if it is there we should once we are finished make sure it is wacked
[16:32] <rtg> apw, yep, that is my thinking
[16:35] <apw> rtg, great
[16:36] <rtg> apw, starting a V=1 build with skipdbg=false. it'll take a bit, but I should have sufficient log to figure out the key business.
[16:38] <apw> yeah sometimes it is just work letting gomeisa take the strain
[16:50] <jsalisbury> ##
[16:50] <jsalisbury> ## Kernel team meeting in 10 minutes
[16:50] <jsalisbury> ##
[17:35] <lfaraone> apw: re 1206387 , the package currently in the queue restores OpenAFS functionality on 3.11 , so we're current through linux-lts-saucy, but that SRU does not contain the fix for trusty's config  (bug 1246675)
[17:35] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1246675 in openafs (Ubuntu) "OpenAFS fails to build on trusty kernel 3.12 [openafs-modules-dkms <IP_ADDRESS>-1: openafs kernel module failed to build]" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1246675
[17:35] <lfaraone> bug 1206387
[17:35] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1206387 in openafs (Ubuntu Precise) "openafs-modules-dkms 1.6.1-1+ubuntu0.2: module FTBFS on 3.8.0" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206387
[17:35] <lfaraone> apw: Ideally I'd like the current package accepted and we'll just update for trusty's kernel once it gets closer to release.
[17:39] <apw> lfaraone, yeah that is an appropriate approach as we won't have 3.12 for very long
[17:41] <lfaraone> the only reason I bothered to introduce a delta this early in the cycle for openafs is because I'm running trusty on my laptop, and (some of) my email is in AFS maildirs. :P
[17:45] <apw> heh :)
[17:48] <apw> lfaraone, am i correct in thinking that we have released all of the versions you have penidng
[17:50] <apw> lfaraone, that reminds me, if you want to get a preview of the 3.13 kernel we have early (-rc1 ish) kernles in our PPA: https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-team/+archive/ppa/+packages
[17:53] <lfaraone> apw: no, <IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> is still waiting to get accepted to precise-proposed
[17:53] <apw> lfaraone, /me wonders why queue isn't showing it to him
[17:53] <lfaraone> sory <IP_ADDRESS>-1~ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>
[17:54] <apw> ahh there it is, finger fail on my side.  thanks
[17:54] <lfaraone> I messed up the first upload's version number, so I requested that it be rejected.
[17:55] <apw> ahh thats what it is
[17:56] <apw> lfaraone, i assume you are tyring to commonise the version here with that in trusty ?
[17:57] <lfaraone> apw:  <IP_ADDRESS>-1~ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> is a backport of  <IP_ADDRESS>-1 , which is in Saucy.
[17:58] <apw> lfaraone, is it a backport of <IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu1 ?
[17:58] <lfaraone> apw: No.
[17:59] <apw> so i think the number might be a litle odd, i am unsure that the ~ would be neeed, as ubuntu0 is before ubuntu1 but, as long as it is 'before' i assume it is ok
[18:00] <lfaraone> apw: right, I uploaded the SRU before I uploaded the new verison in trusty.
[18:02] <apw> but i assume your version isn't newer than <IP_ADDRESS>-1 which is what your currnet number implies, but ... not sure its a problem
[18:04] <lfaraone> apw: the SRU is the same code as <IP_ADDRESS>-1, but if you upgrade your system should install the <IP_ADDRESS>-1 package replacing the backported version. So, we need to make the SRU less than the version in the development release.
[18:05] <lfaraone> <IP_ADDRESS>-1~ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> is less than <IP_ADDRESS>-1 , the latter of which was previously in trusty. Its also less than <IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu1, so upgrades will still work.
[18:05] <apw> ahh i see, got you
[18:32] <apw> lfaraone, there is a heap of change between what is applied in trusty (<IP_ADDRESS>-1 not th ubuntuN versions) and what was backported, in debian/rules which i thought i might have seen an upload to undo, but cannot find now
[18:33] <lfaraone> apw: the debian/rules changes were in Anders' original debdiff as changes needed to build on precise, I believe.
[18:34] <apw> hmmm, ok
[18:36] <lfaraone> apw: in any case, it just moves logic from override_dh_install-arch to override_dh_install
[18:37] <lfaraone> and removes override_dh_install-arch. Perhaps the disntinction between override_dh_install-arch and override_dh_install-indep didn't exist in precise's debhelper?
[18:37] <apw> yeah that is believeable
[18:38] <lfaraone> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/12/msg00092.html implies the options were new in Debian in late 2011, so I imagine they may not have made it to precise before DIF / FF
[18:38] <apw> yeah thanks
[18:47] <infinity> Could relate to this:
[18:47] <infinity> debhelper (9.20120608) unstable; urgency=low
[18:47] <infinity>   * dh: When there's an -indep override target without -arch, or vice versa,
[18:47] <infinity>     avoid acting on packages covered by the override target when running
[18:48] <infinity>     the command for packages not covered by it. Closes: #676462
[18:48] <infinity>  -- Joey Hess<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Fri, 08 Jun 2012 13:15:48 -0400
[18:48] <apw> nnng what language is that written in
[18:50] <infinity> apw: I think it's saying that if you have "foo-indep", "foo" would run for those same packages again, unless you also have a "foo-arch".
[18:50] <infinity> (In which case, "foo" wouldn't happen at all, just the two overrides)
[18:51] <infinity> So, the fix could be to simply add an override_dh_install-indep that calls dh_install -i
[18:51] <infinity> But I haven't looked at the diff, as long as it's sane, I don't care.
[18:53] <apw> switches to the omre normal overrides
[19:00] <apw> lfaraone, i asusme this has been tested with at least the P and S kernels as it seems to carry a bump for everything
[19:03] <apw> lfaraone, i wonder when we went to 3.5 we just plled in the updates for the kernel componet, not the test of it, why are we not doing the same for this one?
[19:11] <lfaraone> apw: the cherrypick needed would be really bit, ref https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openafs/+bug/1206387/comments/2
[19:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1206387 in openafs (Ubuntu Precise) "openafs-modules-dkms 1.6.1-1+ubuntu0.2: module FTBFS on 3.8.0" [High,Confirmed]
[19:11] <lfaraone> *big
[19:15] <lfaraone> apw: this has been in the OpenAFS PPA for a month, and I believe is in use by everyone at MIT running the HWE kernels. I had installed the packages on my system running non-HWE and they worked for me.
[19:16] <lfaraone> I believe CMU is also running <IP_ADDRESS> on Precise via the PPA.
[19:16] <apw> if my memory of hte main users of afs that might well be pretty much all of them ...
[19:16] <apw> lfaraone, and i guess we get more change for 3.12 and likely again for 3.13
[19:17] <infinity> The more important question isn't "does this work on 3.8", but "does it break on 3.2"?
[19:17] <apw> i think we do need to know it has been tested in all the valid combinations P P+Q P+R P+S
[19:18] <lfaraone> apw: is P+Q supported, still?
[19:18] <apw> lfaraone, not for much longer i suspect indeed
[19:18] <apw> i do so wish the HWE backports were in per series PPAs and not in the archive
[19:19] <infinity> All of them are supported until after 14.04 comes out.
[19:19] <lfaraone> apw: yeah… me too.
[19:19] <infinity> But it seems unlikely that you'd craft a kernel module that works on 3.2 and 3.8 but not 3.5...
[19:19] <apw> infinity, yeah that
[19:19] <lfaraone> Anyway, I can install ALL the kernels in a VM and double check.
[19:20] <apw> lfaraone, that would be great
[19:24] <stgraber> rtg: ping
[19:24] <rtg> stgraber, on the phone
[19:25] <stgraber> rtg: ok. When you're back, can you let me know what package your verification-done-precise applies to in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1205284?
[19:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1205284 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "linux-tools naming is not scalable to multiple source packages" [Medium,Fix committed]
[19:25] <stgraber> rtg: if that's apt, then I'll release it to -updates. The rest will go through the standard kernel SRU process.
[19:25] <rtg> stgraber, bug apw about that
[19:28] <apw> stgraber, hi ... which package are you considering the bug for sru wise
[19:29] <stgraber> apw: apt
[19:30] <stgraber> apw: the sru report says apt has been in -proposed for long enough and if rtg's verification-done-precise tag applies to it, then I can release it, but due to the high number of sources linked to that bug and lack of comment, I can't know whether the tag was meant for apt or for some of those linux sources...
[19:31] <bjf> stgraber, i believe rtg was responding to the previous comment from my bug spamming asking for testing/verification
[19:31] <bjf> stgraber, that would make it (the rtg tag) applicable to the linux package
[19:31] <apw> i don't expect rtg's does apply there... infinity your apt update for that linux-tools bug was about getting the apt "mark as autoinstalled" stuff right for toosl right ?
[19:31] <apw> infinity, if so i can veryify that ...
[19:32] <apw> stgraber, and yeah these tags are uttrely usless on these bugs, can we get them fixed somehow to include the package where there is more than one/
[19:32] <apw> ?
[19:32] <rtg> yeah, my change to the tag would have been for linux, not apt
[19:34] <apw> stgraber, i believe i understnad that apt change and can verify it
[19:34] <stgraber> apw: I guess we could extend the syntax to be verification-done[-<source name>][-<series name>] which should work for those cases (at least so long as we don't have source package names that match series name ;))
[19:34] <stgraber> apw: that'd be great!
[19:34] <stgraber> bdmurray: ^
[19:35] <bjf> stgraber, does anyone other that the kernel team use those verification tags?
[19:35] <stgraber> bjf: sure, all SRUs do
[19:35] <bjf> huh
[19:36] <bjf> i don't remember using that as an example but I must have
[19:36] <stgraber> and that usually ends up being a bit of a mess when multiple sources are concerned as we need to differentiate which have been tested and which haven't :)
[19:51] <infinity> apw, stgraber: I can verify that apt change DTRT... When you have tools installed with the new naming scheme.
[19:51] <infinity> (Which is only lts-saucy at this point, isn't it?... I don't recall now)
[19:52] <stgraber> infinity: the bug report lists linux-lts-saucy and linux as affected for precise
[19:55] <infinity> stgraber: Well, it's not fixed in the current precise-proposed...
[19:56] <infinity> Looks like the bug ref in the changelog was just about updating the wrappers, not about the packaging.
[19:56] <infinity> apw: ^
[19:57] <apw> infinity, linux is affected as it carries the new wrappers for all releases, but does not get switched to that form
[19:57] <apw> stgraber, ^
[19:57] <infinity> apw: Did we intent to switch the package names for linux/precise too, or just leave it be?
[19:57] <infinity> s/intent/intend/
[19:57] <apw> only linux-lts-saucy is using the new form indeed, so the apt changes only affect there
[19:58] <apw> i was not intending on changing the older releases unless somone whined no
[19:58]  * infinity nods.
[20:05]  * rtg -> lunch
[20:11] <apw> infinity, so are you or am i, verifying this apt thingy
[20:12] <apw> infinity, i have a vm availble to do it
[20:17] <infinity> apw: Go nuts, if you're all set up to verify.
[20:39] <rtg> ogasawara, re: bug #1255297 - were you gonna send a patch to the list ? Its been at least 15 minutes.
[20:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255297 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "XPS 15 SD Card Reader Support" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255297
[20:40] <ogasawara> rtg: sheesh, I'm about to hit send
[20:41] <rtg> :)
[21:06] <bjf> ogasawara, it looks like the next SRU cycles kernels will be the one for 12.04.4
[21:07] <ogasawara> bjf: ack, I figured it would be
[21:07] <ogasawara> bjf: can we make sure that patch for 1255297 lands in it
[21:07] <bjf> ogasawara, i'm thinking this next cycle is going to be kinda long given holidays and release prep
[21:08] <bjf> ogasawara, as long as it doesn't cause any regressions i don't see why it won't make it
[21:08] <ogasawara> bjf: ack
[21:08] <ogasawara> bjf: and ack on making this next cycle a little longer
[21:09] <bjf> ogasawara, but just for you i can make sure that commit gets in :-)
[21:09] <ogasawara> bjf: heh, thanks :)
[21:16] <apw> stgraber, ok i've confired the apt changes (added same to the bug) and vairous other bits
[21:41] <stgraber> apw: cool, thanks. I'll release the apt SRU then.
[21:42] <apw> stgraber, wonderful thanks
[21:50] <apw> rtg, that sign fix turned out nice and simple, and the where of its occurance says why i have never seen it, as i nearly always am running your latest shiney kernel hand compiled
[21:51] <rtg> apw, yep, though I'm still struggling to get a trusty upload to build so that I can be absolutely sure.
[21:51] <rtg> FTBS: make[2]: Leaving directory `/build/buildd/linux-3.12.0/debian/build/tools-perarch/tools/lib/traceevent'
[21:51] <rtg>     LINK perf
[21:51] <rtg> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -liberty
[21:52] <rtg> apw, I think 'UBUNTU: [Config] switch build-depends to libiberty-dev' fixes the FTBS (buils testing as we speak)
[21:52] <rtg> build*
[21:53] <apw> ahh i didn't realise he was wacking it from the old place ...
[21:53] <rtg> yeah, its gone
[21:53] <apw> that was rather quick :)
[21:54] <apw> i figured we had as long as it took to get 3.13 in, seems i was wrong
[22:31]  * rtg -> EOD


[19:45] <balloons> bdmurray, can you give me a sanity check to ensure I've setup the hug day for tomorrow properly? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20140710
[20:03] <bdmurray> balloons: ubiquity is kind of challenging as to recreate the bug you need to test an install
[20:04] <balloons> bdmurray, mmm.. perhaps I aimed too high.. I was planning on having folks doing some installer testing as well so I thought it would go well together
[20:04] <bdmurray> balloons: oh, it would if people are prepared to do install testing
[20:05] <balloons> bdmurray, yes, but, hmm.. probably should try and do something a bit easier for the next one
[20:06] <balloons> I wasn't able to CONvince anyway else to come demo triaging tomorrow; do you think you might be interested in doing so bdmurray ?
[20:07] <bdmurray> balloons: I'm super swamped with the error tracker and armhf crashes and other fun stuff, otherwise I would
[20:07] <balloons> no worries.. they'll just have to get me and my newbishness ;-)
[20:07] <bdmurray> balloons: I'm happy to answer any questions
[20:08] <bdmurray> balloons: some the incomplete bugs like bug 1333769 don't require any more work as they were modified by my bot
[20:09] <balloons> bdmurray, high, yet incomplete?
[20:09] <balloons> I suppose you want confirmation it happens on 12.04.4
[20:10] <bdmurray> balloons: right, yeah maybe it shouldn't be high (that's done for all log files with a Traceback)
[20:13] <bdmurray> balloons: otherwise the list seems sane


[13:29] <Eighth_Doctor> falcojr: hey, could you take a look at this (trivial) PR? https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1345
[16:39] <blackboxsw> falcojr: did you say there was a 2nd PR up related to https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1339. I think your suggestions on that PR make sense and we want the generator to emit /run/cloud-init/disabled makes sense
[16:40] <blackboxsw> was the ask there to cobble up a unit test for generator logic?
[17:11] <blackboxsw> working through schema review 1341
[17:35] <holmanb> henk: Sorry for the delayed response. I just refreshed my memory on cloud-init locale code, it seems my former statement was incorrect. Assuming you're running on a debian-based distro (per the apt keys in your cloud config), this is a relevant section of code: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/main/cloudinit/distros/debian.py#L395. It seems locales are not regenerated when you set locale to `C.UTF-8`.
[17:36] <holmanb> henk: I'd suggest opening a bug report or PR with your requested changes.
[19:02] <henk> holmanb: yes, that was my understanding of the code as well.


[01:28] <brucet927> Hi there, I've setup ubuntu on my mother in-law's laptop, and will be installing it on her currently broken desktop.
[01:28] <brucet927> Can I use ubuntu one to automatically have everything she does in her home folders sync or is it like dropbox, things need to be put in a specific folder on your system?
[01:36] <jgdx> brucet927: Hi, take a look at https://one.ubuntu.com/help/faq/can-i-synchronize-a-folder-outside-my-home-folder-117/ <- answer is sadly no
[01:37] <jgdx> brucet927: sorry, misunderstood. The answer is yes. But it kinda sounds like you want a backup being made daily/weekly instead?
[01:37] <jgdx> The Backup application can create backups and upload them to ubuntu one
[01:40] <brucet927> jgdx, no, it's more a case that she has teenage kids, so she'll obviously be swapping from desktop to laptop a lot
[01:40] <brucet927> And would like it so that when she's working in libreoffice on her desktop, for example, when she hits save, the file will then appear in its new form on her laptop.
[01:41] <brucet927> (After syncing, of course)
[01:43] <jgdx> brucet927: oh, then yes. Open "Ubuntu One" and "Add a folder from this computer"
[01:43] <brucet927> Ah, that's great
[01:44] <brucet927> Does it sync automatically as soon as it detects changes to the files?
[01:44] <jgdx> brucet927: afaik, yes.
[01:44] <jgdx> brucet927: just note that .mozilla/.firefox folders and the like will result in perpetual syncing
[01:45] <brucet927> I thought that might be the case, so if possible I'd probably only set up her documents/picture folders
[01:54] <dobey> you can't sync all of the home directory
[01:54] <dobey> you can only choose to sync folders within it though
[01:55] <dobey> there is lots of stuff in home that would turn out very bad if you tried to sync it
[02:00] <brucet927> Yeah, dobey, like I said, I anticipated that, so I will just be setting her docs and pics to sync
[08:38] <Moscherkobold> good morning everyone
[08:38] <Moscherkobold> is there a way to get the files client without google account
[08:39] <Moscherkobold> i have a new phone and i want to have as less google on it as possible :)
[09:18] <JamesTait> Happy end-of-the-world day, everyone! :-D
[11:22] <gatox> good morning!
[11:25] <czajkowski> ello
[14:01] <chaselivingston> Moscherkobold: you can get the apk here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntuone-android-files
[15:08] <Tm_T> hmmm, shouldn't ubuntu one music store have same tracks and albums available than 7digital.com ?
[15:12] <chaselivingston> Tm_T: not necessarily, depends on the country you're in
[15:18] <Tm_T> chaselivingston: hmmm, even if I compare to local 7digital store and UK store?
[15:19] <chaselivingston> Tm_T: possibly. we're working on bringing the catalogs more up to speed on our end, there are several upgrades we're performing that we hope to have live after the first of the year
[15:20] <Tm_T> chaselivingston: allright, currently atleast one band has only 1 (or two, depending on how you count it) album in ubuntu store while 7digital offers ... 20+?
[15:20] <chaselivingston> joshuahoover: ^^^
[15:21] <Tm_T> band name contains Ö so I wonder if that has anything to do


[01:44] <jose> just got home
[01:44] <jose> working on publishing
[02:25] <jose> Welcome to the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, Issue 434 for the week September 7 - 13, 2015 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue434
[02:27] <jose> PaulW2U: still around?
[02:39] <jose> urgh, fridge scripts are not working
[02:43] <Unit193> Great, ca-certs is screwed up, that's why the issue didn't validate...
[02:47] <jose> wat
[04:47] <PaulW2U> jose: silly error - issue 343 -didn't spot until now - sorry - first line of newsletter !
[04:47] <jose> oh damn!
[04:47] <jose> let's edit the wiki for that one
[04:48] <jose> also, g'morning, early bird!
[04:48] <jose> thanks for the heads up, edited
[04:49] <PaulW2U> still half asleep here :)
[04:50] <PaulW2U> and the forum copy?
[04:59] <jose> oh, right, let me fix that real quick!
[05:00] <jose> verified that fridge is good
[05:00] <jose> so that means discourse should be good to
[05:02] <jose> and g+/facebook updated too. twitter is unchangeable, though :)
[05:03] <PaulW2U> jose: just done that - thought you'd gone
[05:04] <PaulW2U> forum ^
[05:05] <jose> I've been struggling with forums lately
[05:05] <jose> logs me out randomly
[05:06] <PaulW2U> other people say that too
[05:17] <jose> huh. I'll have to check tomorrow with IS
[05:29] <PaulW2U> do you live at home or on university campus?
[05:31] <PaulW2U> I ask as some are finding their IP address changes which means an automatic logout from the forum
[05:32] <jose> I live at home, and when I do something I don't tend to change machines
[05:32] <jose> I believe it's a bug - I've seen it when I double-clicked by mistake, I just need to confirm
[05:33] <PaulW2U> ok, anyway must go to work now, g'night :)
[05:34] <jose> have a great day!
[16:33] <pleia2> woo dyslexia (swapped numbers, sorry)


[02:40] <burnbrighter> cheez0r: thanks.  I started over.  We'll see how it goes this time.
[05:07] <burnbrighter> cheez0r: ut?
[06:28] <burnbrighter> bigjools: how exactly should the /etc/hosts file look for the primary maas node?  There seems to be some confusion around this.
[06:30] <bigjools> you don't need one, cobbler updates your dns
[06:38] <burnbrighter> I see two entries - <IP_ADDRESS> for localhost - the usual
[06:38] <burnbrighter> then I see <IP_ADDRESS> for my host's name
[06:38] <burnbrighter> (maas01)
[06:39] <burnbrighter> cheez0r experienced ssh problems in juju because of his dual-homed set up - which is what I have
[06:40] <burnbrighter> and I continue to see problems with commissioning
[06:40] <burnbrighter> sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't
[06:52] <burnbrighter> and, cobbler updates internal dns, how about external dns?
[06:52] <burnbrighter> like when you need to update packages and such or maas-import-isos?
[06:53] <burnbrighter> my external dns doesn't seem to work
[06:53] <bigjools> it updates the dns server you configured on it, which is probably your local dnsmasq
[06:53] <burnbrighter> if I try to update resolvconf/resolv.conf/base or something else, that mucks with the required <IP_ADDRESS> entry
[06:54] <bigjools> yes, resolv.conf defers to dnsmasq locally
[06:54] <burnbrighter> anything in resolvconf overwrites resolv.conf
[06:55] <burnbrighter> and if you add something to base in resolvconf, it messes up the external dns
[06:55] <burnbrighter> so how can you get around that?
[06:56] <burnbrighter> am I missing some basic configuration?
[06:56] <burnbrighter> or are these known issues
[06:58] <bigjools> you don't need to change this stuff
[06:58] <bigjools> if the box is multi homed then make dnsmasq serve on all addresses
[07:03] <burnbrighter> do you have hints on how I would go about doing this?
[07:04] <bigjools> I don't know without looking but I'd start with "man dnsmasq" :)
[07:05] <burnbrighter> isn't a dual-homed system for the maas server one of the common configurations, out of curiosity?
[07:06] <burnbrighter> I mean, how are people deploying them mostly
[07:06] <bigjools> most people will use bind for real deployments - dnsmasq is not proven in larger environments
[07:07] <bigjools> and in fact we are removing support for dnsmasq in the next revision of maas
[07:16] <burnbrighter> interesting, ok
[11:52] <cheez0r> burnbrighter: the trick is to ensure that you have two hosts configured- one for your eth0 ip and one for your eth1 ip; to have whichever of those two networks is your MaaS network's hostname in /etc/hostname; and to ensure that you've installed maas, maas-dhcp and ensured that either during the install or with dpkg-reconfigure you've specified the IP data of the MaaS network.
[11:54] <cheez0r> I find that building the initial MaaS install by specifying the public or 'outside' IP network and DNS servers that are reachable, and then adding the MaaS network to the machine, setting the hostnames up, then dpkg-reconfigure maas, and apt-get install maas-dhcp to be the easiest procedure.
[14:00] <roaksoax> rvba: yui is shipping some non free files right?
[14:01] <rvba> roaksoax: off-hand, I've got no idea.
[14:03] <roaksoax> rvba: what about these two? rm maas-$(VER).orig/src/maasserver/static/jslibs/yui/3.4.1/build/uploader/assets/uploader.swf rm maas-$(VER).orig/src/maasserver/static/jslibs/yui/3.4.1/build/io-xdr/io.swf
[14:05] <rvba> roaksoax: note that in the version we currently use (3.5.1), uploader.swf is in ./src/maasserver/static/jslibs/yui/uploader-deprecated/assets
[14:06] <roaksoax> rvba: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-javascript-devel/2012-June/003761.html
[14:06] <roaksoax> Daviey: ^^
[14:07] <rvba> roaksoax: io.swf is a tiny flash component required (I think) to circumvent some of the limitations of the browsers.
[16:43] <burnbrighter> cheez0r: any chance I could see what your host file looks like?  And did you have to do any dnsmasq tweaking?  Did you have external dns resolution issues there?
[17:01] <cheez0r> burnbrighter: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1052955
[17:02] <cheez0r> THe /etc/dnsmasq.conf file is populated from a cobbler template at /etc/cobbler/dnsmasq.template so that's where those dhcp-host lines are located, and then when you maas-import-isos it moves that file into place at /etc/dnsmasq.conf and does service dnsmasq restart for you.
[17:02] <burnbrighter> thanks - what did you do with the <IP_ADDRESS> address maas created?  did you get right of that?
[17:02] <cheez0r> It never created such an address for me.
[17:03] <cheez0r> when you do the initial install you configure the public side network (outside)
[17:03] <cheez0r> then you add the internal network and reconfigure maas, then install the maas-dhcp package
[17:04] <cheez0r> <IP_ADDRESS> is a loopback address and should remain; I'm unclear where the <IP_ADDRESS> address is originating from.
[17:04] <burnbrighter> that was confusing for me because the hostname actually points to that address
[17:04] <cheez0r> shouldn't.
[17:05] <burnbrighter> for example, my host name is maas01, so that was pointed to <IP_ADDRESS>
[17:05] <cheez0r> weird. <IP_ADDRESS> should point to localhost
[17:05] <cheez0r> your hostname should point to the maas network IP address
[17:05] <cheez0r> and a second host should be configured for the public IP side
[17:05] <burnbrighter> and everything just worked for you?
[17:06] <cheez0r> yeah
[17:06] <burnbrighter> how about external dns resolution problems?
[17:06] <burnbrighter> sorry, I haven't read everything you wrote above - too many meetings :)
[17:06] <cheez0r> none- if you do the initial install with the public IP configured, you can reference your real DNS servers
[17:06] <cheez0r> that should eliminate any issues once you install maas-dhcp and that installs dnsmasq
[17:09] <burnbrighter> hmmm.  I'm seeing dnsmasq or resolvconf overwriting dns
[17:09] <burnbrighter> I mean resolv.conf
[17:09] <burnbrighter> it always gets written to <IP_ADDRESS>
[17:09] <cheez0r> yeah you have to configure dns-nameserver to /etc/network/interfaces
[17:09] <cheez0r> so on your public interface you configure dns-nameservers and then service network restart and it should populate /etc/resolv.conf appropriately.
[17:09] <burnbrighter> and you set each one separately there?
[17:10] <cheez0r> one line, multiple servers separated with spaces
[17:10] <cheez0r> gotta run- good luck, I'll respond in ~1hr when I get back
[17:10] <burnbrighter> ahhh...resolv.conf is populated based on the interfaces file???
[17:10] <burnbrighter> ok, thanks for the info
[18:43] <cheez0r> burnbrighter: with resolvconf they are, and resolvconf is on the MaaS node by default.
[18:46] <burnbrighter> I don't think I see any entries in resolvconf from maas
[18:47] <cheez0r> MaaS has nothing to do with resolvconf.
[18:47] <burnbrighter> exactly
[18:47] <cheez0r> when you configure the node during the install of MaaS, you supply DNS server IP addresses.
[18:47] <cheez0r> It inserts them into the /etc/network/interfaces file, from which the resolv.conf is generated.
[18:47] <burnbrighter> ? I don't it does
[18:47] <burnbrighter> s/don't/don't think/
[18:48] <cheez0r> During the install of the MaaS node it prompts you for DNS servers.
[18:48] <cheez0r> You must've typed in <IP_ADDRESS>.
[18:48] <burnbrighter> k, I don't remember that part
[18:48] <burnbrighter> no, I definitely do not
[18:48] <burnbrighter> I never put in <IP_ADDRESS>
[18:48] <burnbrighter> that's populated by maas
[18:48] <cheez0r> <IP_ADDRESS> is a loopback address. It is present on most unix/linux systems.
[18:49] <burnbrighter> which version are you using.  and yes I know that
[18:49] <cheez0r> I'm installing from the Ubuntu 12.04 CD.
[18:49] <burnbrighter> are you using the regular apt-get version?
[18:49] <burnbrighter> yeah - I don't recall it asking about DNS, and I know for certain I've never put in the loop back address
[18:49] <cheez0r> No, you install the MaaS head node by booting it from the Ubuntu ISO and choosing to install MaaS, and then having it install Ubuntu for you.
[18:50] <burnbrighter> correct
[18:50] <cheez0r> If you're doing it a different way I've got no experience with it and therefore can't help you.
[18:50] <burnbrighter> the only two ways I know how to do it are the one you mention, the other is installing base 12.04, then adding maas after the fact
[18:52] <burnbrighter> in any case, back to our conversation above - are you saying what's in /etc/network/interfaces gets written to /etc/resolv.conf by the OS?
[18:52] <cheez0r> No, by the resolvconf package.
[18:53] <burnbrighter> ok, and you can set it separately for each interface?
[18:53] <cheez0r> yes, but generally you dont.
[18:54] <cheez0r> You only set it for the interface that can see that DNS server, and then it resolves there for the entire box.
[18:54] <burnbrighter> my problem is I either get internally resolvable dns OR external dns, but never both together
[18:54] <cheez0r> what does that statement mean?
[18:54] <cheez0r> What is an 'internally resolvable dns'?
[18:55] <burnbrighter> the internally resolvable addresses for dns created by maas-dhcp
[18:55] <burnbrighter> or cobbler
[18:55] <burnbrighter> not sure which
[18:55] <cheez0r> You are creating a MaaS network. You are installing the MaaS node. It should have 'external' DNS servers that the MaaS node resolves against. The MaaS node should resolve hosts for the rest of the MaaS cluster.
[18:55] <burnbrighter> let me explain a little...
[18:56] <burnbrighter> if I do a ping against node-0050c06467.maas.local and my resolv.conf has nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>, it works
[18:56] <burnbrighter> if I do a ping against www.cnn.com with nameserver set to same, it doesn't
[18:57] <cheez0r> I don't know enough about dnsmasq to help with that issue.
[18:57] <cheez0r> If you follow the steps I gave, it will work. Beyond that I don't know.
[18:57] <burnbrighter> if I change resolv.conf to external dns, or even my router which passes dns ie. <IP_ADDRESS>, then pinging www.cnn.com works, but node-0050c06467.maas.local doesn't
[18:58] <burnbrighter> bigjools was suggesting tweaking the dnsmasq config, but also informed me they are dropping support in the next release anyways
[18:59] <cheez0r> My solution to that was to statically map my DNS entries in /etc/hosts and to statically assign DHCP entries in /etc/dnsmasq.conf
[18:59] <cheez0r> you saw that configuration.
[19:00] <burnbrighter> yeah, I'm going to try it.  I've been trying to get this right for two weeks and I'm becoming a bit frazzled
[19:00] <cheez0r> I hear ya, I've been banging on mine for about a month now
[19:01] <burnbrighter> I'm trying to do this in a VM too
[19:01] <burnbrighter> with fully virtualized network
[19:01] <burnbrighter> well, not fully
[19:01] <burnbrighter> bridging the set up adds its own set of complications
[19:02] <burnbrighter> eventually I will need to add a third network in for a third party piece of software the works with openstack
[19:02] <burnbrighter> that needs to communicate over a bridged dmz interface.  been having problems with bleed over in bridging


[10:35] <croute_fan> hi, i want to put GPG keys for APT config but cloud-init fail & stop, can you tell me what's wrong https://pastebin.com/WFKcDYdw (example with google & firefox repositories). It's worked when i put plain content of keys but not with keyserver method.
[14:44] <holmanb> Hi croute_fan: Do you see any warnings or errors in the logs? Per the docs, I expect you will need to use the $KEY_FILE replacement variable rather than a hard-coded file path. https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/modules.html#apt-configure
[19:51] <blackboxsw> holmanb: one final pass if you are game https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1334 on ssh-import-id
[19:52] <blackboxsw> oops and I put that review in as ubuntu-server-builder github acct :/
[19:52] <holmanb> was about to ask, no worries
[19:57] <holmanb> @blackboxsw: looks good to me, just commited to the branch
[20:18] <blackboxsw> approved pending CI
[20:47] <blackboxsw> holmanb: along the lines of ssh-import-id, I just filed the following https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+filebug
[20:47] <blackboxsw> fail... https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1969526
[20:47] <blackboxsw> I think we might be able to onboard new cloud-init team additions with a task like this.
[20:48]  * blackboxsw added `bitesize` tag to the bug
[20:53] <holmanb> @blackboxsw: +1,  don't most clouds provide some version of a "serial console" that allows non-ssh instance access?
[20:54] <holmanb> either way, good call
[20:54] <blackboxsw> yes and another good example is LXD provides images for many distros by default without openssh-server because you can lxc exec direct into the instance w/out ssh
[20:55] <blackboxsw> I'm fixing a failure path in PR 1391 now. expect one more commit from me and an additional unittest
[21:00] <holmanb> blackboxsw: ack, will review after
[21:39] <blackboxsw> holmanb: just pushed a single commit on top of 1334 as my log suggestion was not flake8 compat :/ awaiting CI one more time
[21:40] <blackboxsw> and 1391 is updated with all I plan
[22:13] <holmanb> @blackboxsw: thanks for the review on 1334, and the quick fix - merging
[22:14] <blackboxsw> thx holmanb. I'll now bump my ubuntu/devel branch to include a `Suggests: ssh-import-id`
[22:14] <blackboxsw> once that lands
[22:15] <holmanb> blackboxsw: +1 just merged - looking at 1391
[22:16] <holmanb> I expect review will likely spill into tomorrow as eod is approaching
[22:44] <minimal> blackboxsw: not just a potential problem in my cloud images ;-) BTW I'm been meaning to sit down and figure out how to add tinyssh and/or dropbear as SSH server options for cloud-init...


[00:00] <Hashcode> it's bombing out building the boot.img, something isn't where it's expected
[00:00] <rsalveti> right
[00:19] <Leon1990> hello
[00:20] <Leon1990> I was wondering if anyone was around that could help answer a question about detecting ubuntu touch, installed on a nexus 4 on a ubuntu laptop
[00:27] <bact> detecting?
[00:32] <Leon1990> after install ubuntu touch on the phhone i pluged it into my laptop in order to use the dd commands to make a clone of the hard drive. however the phone does not show up when doing any fdisk commands
[00:33] <Leon1990> I've checked with a normal usb stick and that comes up on fdisk. it just seems the phone dosent show up. which is odd since i can access the phones storage though the GUI
[00:34] <Leon1990> it also shows up when i use the lsusb command
[01:12] <dobey> Leon1990: it's not a disk. it's an MTP device. it's not using usb storage, but MTP
[01:14] <Leon1990> thank you dobey. I've been readding though the technical support for it and i think my best bet is to ssh into the phone and do the ssh though there as i cant seem to make a clone though the adb commands
[01:16] <Leon1990> do the dd though there*
[01:20] <dobey> why are you trying to create a disk image of your phone anyway?
[01:20] <dobey> it's a phone, not a disk
[01:23] <Leon1990> curious to see whats left on the phone after converting from android to ubuntu touch.
[01:23] <Leon1990> the best was i thought of doing this was using dd to clone it. though its become a lot more hassle than i thought
[01:27] <Leon1990> unless anyone has a simple way of being able to clone a ubuntu touch phone's harddrive
[01:47] <bact> Leon1990: you own a smartphone with a harddrive? Goodness gracious
[01:49] <Leon1990> oh you know what i mean, tiny little flash disk probbably
[01:49] <Leon1990> on the + side i did finally find the directory for the MTP phone without ssh
[01:49] <dobey> same "hard drive" that's in the chromebook
[01:50] <Leon1990> hiding inside the user/myusername/gvfs/
[01:50] <dobey> i wonder what the heck is going on with audio and ofono on the nexus5 though
[01:50] <Leon1990> theres a nexus 5?
[01:50] <cwayne> dobey, i did notice audio issues, but ofono was working fine on mine
[01:52] <dobey> cwayne: well, i presume it's ofono. i've been using my voicemail number to test with, and right now my phone is in this weird state where the first time, the call will go through, but there will be no audio. then i can call again, and there will be audio. and then all further calls just get dropped
[01:52] <dobey> it's really weird
[01:53] <dobey> and i'm not fond of how the contacts stuff works right now. not sure if there's anything i can do to fix it though
[01:56] <nhaines> dobey: I actually haven't managed to make any phone calls with my phone yet.  :)
[01:57] <nhaines> I've noticed if I play music long enough on the Nexus 5, it stops distorting.
[01:59] <dobey> nhaines: just switching "stations" in grooveshark a couple times results in smooth audio in that app at least
[01:59] <dobey> i only have on song on the phone at the moment (i don't tend to use my phone for music anyway)
[02:06] <dobey> anyway, gotta go
[02:42] <not-rww> popey: I was asked to ask when Stallboard is coming to Ubuntu Desktop
[03:20] <nhaines> hahaha
[03:20] <nhaines> not-rww: it'll run already if you grab the files.
[03:36] <george__> hello all :)
[04:59] <Hashcode> ping rsalveti
[06:58] <dholbach> good morning
[07:38] <n3tJ4ckr> Morning
[08:03] <slvn_> hello
[08:03] <slvn_>  put the UbuntuPhone image #303 on my tablet Nexus10. The scrolling is very slow / jerky / flickering !
[08:08] <ogra_> slvn_, in the browser you mean ?
[08:10] <slvn_> yes, in the web-browser only.  The main *desktop* scrolling is fine. also the left/right panels scrolling are fine.
[08:10] <ogra_> mind to file a bug ? the N10 didnt get as much attention as the 2013 N7
[08:10] <ogra_> against webbrowser-app
[08:11] <ogra_> (or probably davmor2 or popey know if there is one open already
[08:11] <ogra_> )
[08:12] <popey> not aware of that
[08:14] <slvn_> ogra_, ok, I can file a bug report  and/or check if one is already opened !
[08:26] <slvn_> ogra_,  done, created : https://bugs.launchpad.net/webbrowser-app/+bug/1312588
[08:27] <ogra_> thanks !
[08:27] <davmor2> slvn_: there is a bug for ugliness of the n10 and scrolling
[08:28] <davmor2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/webbrowser-app/+bug/1301380
[08:30] <slvn_> davmor2, Sorry, I couldn't find it though I try to search for some ! (I am a new user to launchpad)
[08:31] <davmor2> slvn_: it's not a worry
[08:34] <slvn_> also, a little user feedback :  It would be nice to have a way to disable the "haptic" feedback when touching the screen.
[08:45] <davmor2> slvn_: yeah still early days really.  we also need haptic feedback to be enabled on the keyboard which is where most people have it turned on, and also turned off when taking a photo so it doesn't blur pictures etc etc we'll get there though honest :)
[08:46] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:47] <slvn_> davmor2, ok, I understand!
[08:48] <davmor2> slvn_: I think the main plan is to get everything working before we work on making it not we are mostly there but not quite :)
[08:50] <slvn_> I have a more precised question. I want to develop apps in C/C++ for UbuntuPhone. Actually my apps already exists for Android/Ios/WinRT/WinPhone. They are build on top of SDL and I want to port them for Ubuntu Phone.
[08:52]  * popey looks for the question ...
[08:52] <slvn_> Any Idea how to port SDL to Ubuntu Phone and/or to  develop app in c/c++ for UbuntuPhone ? I dont need QT but I can include dummy file/stuff.
[08:53] <popey> SDL already has support for Mir, that was added a while back, however I don't think SDL devs have released a version since which includes it
[08:55] <slvn_> Yes, I saw there was support for Mir/Wayland added. I use the SDL trunk anyway.
[08:55] <slvn_> I try to foresee the steps to get SDL compiled for UbuntuPhone.
[08:56] <slvn_> I guess I should cross compiled it for ARMEAB + enable MIR ?
[08:56] <popey> that would be an interesting exercise
[08:56] <popey> I have had that at the bottom of my to-do list for ages
[08:57] <popey> but things keep arriving at the top of the stack, pushing it down
[08:58] <slvn_> Which toolchain should I use ? the one from the Android NDK ? I also should have the MIR Header Sync-ed ?
[08:59] <popey> Not sure, might be better asking in #ubuntu-mir tbh
[08:59] <slvn_> I have the Ubuntu 14.04 install on my machine, but I think this version is not yet using MIR.
[08:59] <slvn_> ok, will ask :)
[09:03] <popey> no, desktop doesn't use mir, but you can certainly install the deps needed to build things against it
[09:04] <popey> although you'll need an armhf chroot to build for the phone
[09:41]  * ogra_ finally found the time to update the manual install instructions
[09:43] <davmor2> popey: I thought that was multiarch now or is that just for debugging and I'm getting mixed up
[09:44] <popey> yes
[09:45] <davmor2> popey: ah it's debugging I couldn't remember if I'd had to build a package aswell as dbg-sym'ing one
[11:27] <jammy_> hi
[11:29] <jammy_> is it pssible to install ubuntu in my sony mobile
[11:29] <jammy_> now it is working with android ics
[11:46] <davmor2> jammy_: probably not
[11:52] <ogra_> !devices| jammy_
[11:52] <ogra_> jammy_, if it is not on that list you would have to do a port yourself (which is non-trivial)
[11:52] <jammy_> k
[11:53] <ogra_> (you can also search on the xda forums, sometimes there are ports that are not listed on the wiki)
[12:11] <Tassadar> "generic" and "generic_x86" devices on s-i.u.com are for the emulator, right?
[12:11] <Mirv> dbarth: is there a sort of summary on what's using Oxide and what's using QtWebKit still? mitya57 would like to sync up Debian's QtWebKit 5.2 to Ubuntu (14.10), and I'm wondering whether we've some blockers still
[12:12] <tvoss> jdstrand, lool did you guys have a chance to look at http://androidxref.com/4.4.2_r2/xref/hardware/libhardware/include/hardware/keymaster.h
[12:12] <Mirv> dbarth: for example, do the OpenGL game website apps still use QtWebKit or Oxide?
[12:15] <sergiusens> Tassadar: yes
[12:15] <jdstrand> tvoss: I have not seen it until just now. I guess that corresponds to https://android.googlesource.com/platform/system/security/+/70e3a86abd2c412d602a018967c01c177eb6cf4e
[12:15] <dbarth> Mirv: hi
[12:16] <tvoss> jdstrand, yup, seems so
[12:16] <tvoss> jdstrand, just stumbled across it, too
[12:16] <dbarth> Mirv: you mean the webapps using the new oxide runtime, vs the old qtwebkit one?
[12:16] <dbarth> Mirv: th selection is made with the framework
[12:16] <Mirv> dbarth: yes
[12:17] <dbarth> framework 13-10 is qtwebkit only
[12:17] <dbarth> 14.04{-dev} is oxide only
[12:17] <jdstrand> well, the html5 stull is still qtwebkit, no?
[12:17] <Mirv> dbarth: right, so old framework == qtwebkit, and if an app has not been updated from 13-10 it's still qtwebkit?
[12:17] <jdstrand> like hangonman is using the html5 container
[12:17] <dbarth> Mirv: hmm, modulo the UbuntuView release numer, but for webapps that's irrelevant
[12:17] <jdstrand> (and cordova)
[12:18] <dbarth> Mirv: yes, correct; and we transparently do the qtwebkit redirection for old apps
[12:18] <jdstrand> s/stull/stuff/
[12:18] <dbarth> jdstrand: correct yes
[12:18] <jdstrand> Mirv: so it is more than just webapps that should be considered
[12:18] <dbarth> Mirv: ^^ html5 apps, ie apps written with the html5 SDK use qtwebkit still
[12:18] <dbarth> the switch to oxide is in progress, for next week or so
[12:18] <jdstrand> nice
[12:19] <Mirv> dbarth: ok. eventually the qtwebkit does need to be updated (in 1-2 months) in 14.10 anyhow, so I guess we mostly need to make sure those OpenGL game apps are updated that had problems running with 5.2
[12:19] <Mirv> oh, nice, more oxide migration
[12:19] <lool> tvoss: you mean it might be affected by recent OpenSSL issues?
[12:20] <lool> tvoss: this looks like the java keystore API, with pluginified storage
[12:20] <jdstrand> Mirv: my sarcasm detector is confused :) I'm going to strip out the sarcasm and say "why, yes it is :)"
[12:20] <jdstrand> s/the/any/
[12:20] <tvoss> lool, nope, more like "interesting stuff", wonder if anyone else has stumbled across it
[12:20] <Mirv> jdstrand: no sarcasm intended, sincere "nice" :)
[12:21] <Mirv> since qtwebkit is not security updated among else
[12:21] <jdstrand> yes! :)
[12:30] <sil2100> dbarth: hi!
[12:31] <sil2100> dbarth: do you think any of your landings (lines 34, 36, 37) can be assigned for an SRU?
[12:31] <sil2100> dbarth: I see 36 is not ready and 37 is rather U, but what about 34?
[12:32] <sil2100> dbarth: could you prepare the bugs for SRU? :)
[12:32] <sil2100> Or is that non-SRUable
[12:32] <didrocks> sil2100: seems they are not set as "ready yes", no?
[12:32] <sil2100> didrocks: 34 is set to ready yes
[12:32] <sil2100> didrocks: as I mentioned, this one is of interest to me
[12:32] <didrocks> yep
[12:34] <dbarth> sil2100: i love to have a silo yes
[12:34] <dbarth> sil2100: are there some available now?
[12:34] <dbarth> sil2100: the SRU pack one should be made of SRU bugs, or close to
[12:34] <dbarth> sil2100: ie, i can add the SRU stanza to those missing it
[12:34] <sil2100> dbarth: we have 1 free right now (more soon), but since it doesn't make sense to assign for U right now, we're looking for anything that is 'SRU-related' that we can use it for
[12:35] <sil2100> dbarth: so just poke me once you have a landing that we can assign
[12:36] <pmcgowan> popey, how do terminal app users enter things like Ctrl? or do they just not
[12:36] <ogra_> pmcgowan, tap and hold
[12:36] <sil2100> pmcgowan: there's an additional menu appearing on long-press
[12:37] <popey> what they said
[12:38] <pmcgowan> so I see the other chars, but how do I get ctrl-c?
[12:38] <ogra_> pmcgowan, tap and hold until the circle shows ... move thumb to C
[12:38] <pmcgowan> oh wowser
[12:39] <pmcgowan> ogra_, thanks, was tapping the osk
[12:39] <ogra_> heh
[12:39] <pmcgowan> how about alt?
[12:39] <ogra_> pmcgowan, double tapping gets you the tab key
[12:39]  * ogra_ hasnt seen alt
[12:39] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: also, for things not listed in the long press (eg, Esc), there is a toolbar entry for exposing various panels
[12:40] <jdstrand> something fast for Esc would be cool
[12:40]  * pmcgowan never used terminal
[12:40] <ogra_> we could add it to the hud
[12:40] <ogra_> next to the "Hack into NSA" option :)
[12:40] <pmcgowan> hud going away at some point
[12:41] <jdstrand> yeah, I just noticed that
[12:41] <popey> could we have a custom keyboard layout for terminal?
[12:41] <jdstrand> if someone decides on a custom kb layout, make sure they are a vim user
[12:41] <jdstrand> :)
[12:41] <ogra_> ++
[12:41] <popey> we have had people ask for dvorak for example
[12:41] <pmcgowan> popey, thats the bug I was looking at
[12:41] <pmcgowan> not sure how to do that
[12:41] <Tassadar> ogra_: I've updated the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices page a little bit and added my server
[12:42] <popey> surely it's just another layout like UK, US, FR etc?
[12:42] <pmcgowan> yeah but do you want it on all the time?
[12:42] <dbarth> sil2100: i think line 36 applies, let me ping you back once the bugs are ready for it
[12:42] <dbarth> sil2100: but keep the silo for me please ;)
[12:42] <ogra_> Tassadar, yay, thanks a lot !!!
[12:43] <Tassadar> at least it no longer refers to 'quantal' ^^
[12:43] <ogra_> pmcgowan, hud going away like ... going away completely ?
[12:43] <jdstrand> yeah, I thought it was just being redone or something
[12:43] <pmcgowan> ogra_, until it emerges redesigned I am told
[12:43] <pmcgowan> make way for the bottom edge
[12:44] <ogra_> yup, i heard that ... just not that the hud would go away
[12:44] <popey> pmcgowan: pretty sure dvorak users use dvorak 100% of the time.
[12:44] <sergiusens> Tassadar: ogra_ that devices page is so outdated I don't know where to start fixing.. :-/
[12:45] <ogra_> yeah :(
[12:45] <popey> Q: "How do you know someone uses dvorak layout?". A: "Aysh ostt isa!"
[12:45] <Tassadar> yeah, me too, so I left most of it as-is :/
[12:45] <ogra_> especially since most ports are pretty dead or use the quantal MWC image
[12:57] <fps> hi, i got this nexus 4 mainly to checkout ubuntu touch. but it's too unstable for me (as could be exepcted) and now i think about dual booting..
[12:57] <fps> for this i need to install an android first though it seems
[12:58] <ogra_> dbarth, hmm, is there a bug open for "webapp does not take any input anymore after external link was opened in webbrowser" ?
[12:58] <fps> is there a guide for how to install a custom android rom on a phone that has ubuntu touch?
[12:58] <fps> it seems i need to install android first to be able to then install ubuntu touch for dual booting
[13:01] <fps> ok, i found it i think :D
[13:08] <pmcgowan> ogra_, osk won't come up or any input?
[13:08] <ogra_> i cant scroll
[13:08] <ogra_> i can releav the toolbar but hitting back does nothing
[13:08] <ogra_> *reveal
[13:08] <pmcgowan> hmm
[13:09] <dbarth> ogra_: uh
[13:09] <dbarth> ogra_: no there is not
[13:09] <dbarth> ogra_: no input, like touches?
[13:10] <ogra_> pmcgowan, to reproduce: install golem-de app ... click on "ticker" in the menu at the top, pick the "Init-dienst" article ... scroll down to last paragraph and click on any link
[13:10] <ogra_> then close the browser via the hud, swipe the golem app back on screen and notice you can move anything
[13:10] <dbarth> hmm, ok, trying now
[13:10] <pmcgowan> dbarth, do we use url dispatcher I assume?
[13:11] <pmcgowan> been seeing several focus related issues lately
[13:16] <dbarth> pmcgowan: yes
[13:16] <dbarth> ogra_: can you file a bug for this one please?
[13:16] <ogra_> will do
[13:33] <dbarth> ogra_: i can reproduce the issue, but do you think that's the container or the shell that is stealing input?
[13:33] <ogra_>  i think it is the renderer losing it
[13:33] <ogra_> input is till there on shell level ... you can swipe in the toolbar and hud
[13:34] <ogra_> you can just not do anything with the content
[13:41] <pmcgowan> dbarth, I clicked a link in an SMS and everything worked fine fwiw
[13:46] <lool> pmcgowan: first WAP push!
[13:46] <pmcgowan> lool, what where
[13:46] <lool> pmcgowan: a link in an SMS...
[13:46] <lool> ;-)
[13:47] <ogra_> dbarth, bug 1312754
[13:54] <pmcgowan> lool, ah, does that count ;)
[14:04] <jdstrand> dbarth: hey, I tried the googlecalendar webapp but it stopped being able to launch. is this a known issue?
[14:05] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: hey, I keep hearing about calendar sync in the calendar app. are there instructions on how to use it?
[14:06] <dbarth> ogra_: thanks
[14:06] <dbarth> jdstrand: nope
[14:06] <dbarth> jdstrand: where does it stop?
[14:06] <dbarth> jdstrand: you're talking about the mobile one?
[14:06] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, enable your gogle account and turn on sync I believe
[14:09] <pmcgowan> oSoMoN, is this bug still valid https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-keyboard/+bug/1236360
[14:33] <jdstrand> dbarth: yes, the mobile one. I got it to start once, logged in, then never have been able to get it to start. the screen just flashes when I click the icon on in the dash
[14:33] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: ah-- and that will work with 2fa? (ie, the canonical calendar?)
[14:33] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, I beleive that got that fixed, but I have not tried recently
[14:34] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, checking with renato
[14:34] <jdstrand> now I need to decide if I want to negate the benefit of 2fa since I have the authenticator app on the phone...
[14:35] <jdstrand> dbarth: ie, it worked once, then never again
[14:42] <dbarth> jdstrand: any error message?
[14:42] <dbarth> jdstrand: i just retested and closed and opened it again here
[14:42] <dbarth> hmm, on 302 though
[14:42] <dbarth> might need to update a bit
[14:45] <jdstrand> dbarth: no error message. I don't even see the browser-- just a flash and its gone. I don't see anything output in .cache/upstart either
[14:46] <jdstrand> dbarth: I have to step away for a bit. I'll try to delete all the app specific directories and try again
[14:46] <pmcgowan> dbarth, there's nothing newer than 302 really
[14:48] <dbarth> pmcgowan: right, but in any case, i'm trying
[14:49] <dbarth> jdstrand: don't forget to re-add the extra pattern file for now
[14:49] <dbarth> jdstrand: unless you want to help test silo 005 with the new oauth code
[14:49] <dbarth> pmcgowan: this should eliminate the need for the conf. file soon
[14:50] <jdstrand> ok
[14:50] <pmcgowan> dbarth, great
[14:53] <cwayne> ogra_, huh, bootchart doesn't seem to make any pngs after the first run of phablet-bootchart
[14:53] <ogra_> oh ?
[14:53] <ogra_> any errors ?
[14:53] <ogra_> works here
[14:53] <cwayne> ogra_, yeah, after some reboots i just have the .tgz, but no .pngs
[14:54] <ogra_> you should have a png in the dir where you executed phablet-bootchart ... thats weird
[14:54] <cwayne> ogra_, i did for that first boot
[14:54] <ogra_> what is your host running ?
[14:55] <cwayne> but after phablet-bootchart's run once, shouldnt i get it in /var/log/bootchart on each reboot?
[14:55] <ogra_> probably a bug in pybootchartgui
[14:55] <ogra_> no
[14:55] <ogra_> no pngs on the device
[14:55] <ogra_> they get created on your desktop from the tarball data
[14:56] <cwayne> oooh ok
[15:51] <popey> beuno / cjwatson do you know if we're planning on adding cryptographically signing to click packages?
[15:52] <popey> one of our devs brought up the idea that Alice could send Bob a 'com.ubuntu.facebook.click' which bob installs because it has smileys, it replaces the onboard com.ubuntu.facebook and that app now has access to his data.
[15:52] <popey> Now it does mean he has to push the file to the device and manually install it, circumventing the store.
[15:52] <popey> but it's possible.
[15:53] <cjwatson> We talked about it a while back, there's a design, not currently on the roadmap although not *hugely* hard
[15:53] <cjwatson> Although I didn't think that com.ubuntu.facebook.click would automatically get access to com.ubuntu.facebook's data
[15:54] <cjwatson> But I don't know the apparmor policies that well
[15:54] <popey> well it's effectively the same app, so figured it must
[15:54] <cjwatson> Oh, you mean com.ubuntu.facebook_VERSION_ARCH.click
[15:54] <cjwatson> Not com.ubuntu.facebook.click_VERSION_ARCH.click
[15:54] <popey> yeah, a package crafted to look like any other click package
[15:54] <popey> which isnt hard to create, but the store would reject it
[15:55] <popey> because it's outside Alice's namespace
[15:55] <cjwatson> I think we still want to be able to force that locally, but it should indeed produce a warning of some kind
[15:55] <cjwatson> The Android approach is that it has to be the same key as last time, roughly
[15:55] <cjwatson> But you can uninstall/reinstall
[15:55] <popey> Right.
[15:55] <cjwatson> (I've used this myself to install modified versions of free software apps)
[15:56] <cjwatson> But I have to go nowish, sorry
[15:56] <popey> ok ☻
[15:58] <cjwatson> popey: there are some links in the fifth row of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppStore/Decisions FWIW
[15:58] <popey> ta
[16:04] <oSoMoN> pmcgowan, yes, bug #1236360 is still valid (just tested on N7) (sorry for the delay, just saw your ping)
[16:05] <pmcgowan> oSoMoN, ok will update and assign it then, is it in osk or jst uitk?
[16:05] <oSoMoN> pmcgowan, in uitk I think
[16:06] <oSoMoN> pmcgowan, the attached reproducers are outdated, I’ll attach an updated one
[16:06] <pmcgowan> oSoMoN, ok ty
[16:20]  * daker thinks that all .de webapps on the store are coming from ogra_
[16:20] <ogra_> lol
[16:20] <ogra_> could be :)
[16:20] <ogra_> someone is competing with me with .fr apps now though :)
[16:20] <mhall119> shouldn't they be region-specific?
[16:20] <ogra_> (why doesnt the click lens not show the developer name anymore)
[16:21] <ogra_> mhall119, uh, why ? i dont want to exclude americans that can read german from my apps
[16:21] <daker> mhall119: yes but it's optionnal, it's up to the dev to specify the region
[16:22] <mhall119> ogra_: are they language-specific, or geography specific?
[16:22] <ogra_> language
[16:22] <mhall119> ah, ok, nevermind then
[16:22] <ogra_> most of them are webapp wrappers for news sites
[16:22]  * ogra_ has a script to mass-produce them ...
[16:23] <mhall119> apps like LaPoste....don't seem like they'd be useful to an American even if they spoke french
[16:23] <ogra_> looking up stamp prices while you travel in france ?
[16:23] <mhall119> then I can install it while I'm in france
[16:24] <seb128> you can poste letters to somebody in France using the service
[16:24] <mhall119> seb128: I can use that app to send letters *from* the USA?
[16:24] <seb128> like if you want to send a traditional mail letter to didrocks
[16:24] <seb128> mhall119, yes, you can type online and have them print/deliver it
[16:24] <ogra_> SMS to paper :)
[16:25] <mhall119> that's a thing?
[16:25] <ogra_> or message to paper
[16:25] <seb128> dunno anyone doing it, but they provide the service
[16:25] <ogra_> german postal service offers that too ...
[16:25] <ogra_> but its cheaper to travel to the person and say it in his/her face :P
[16:25] <mhall119> maybe what's needed then is a language filter for the dash
[16:26] <ogra_> (with a rental car)
[16:26] <mhall119> you've convinced me that LaPoste may be useful to me, as an American in the USA, but I can't *read* it
[16:26] <ogra_> a good reason to take a frenc course then :)
[16:26] <mhall119> I did
[16:26] <ogra_> *french
[16:26] <ogra_> tzen blame your teacher
[16:26] <ogra_> *then
[16:27] <mhall119> I blame the language, the syntax was too unstructured, white space was barely relevant to flow control, and it had strong gender typing
[16:28] <popey> NERD
[16:28] <mhall119> :)
[16:29] <dobey> popey: no, in french it's LE NERD
[16:29] <mhall119> oh, so nerd is masculine?  Why's it got to be that way?
[16:29] <ogra_> LOL
[16:30] <popey> Owl has no time for your nerd games  (ʘ∇ʘ)ク 彡 ┻━┻
[16:30] <dobey> The owls are not what they seem.
[16:55] <mhall119> bzoltan1: I'm trying to build Trojita on a click chroot, but I'm getting http://paste.ubuntu.com/7331105/
[16:56] <mhall119> working on unmodified upstream
[17:05] <popey> mhall119: DanChapman was trying to build in qtc also earlier and coming a cropper
[17:07] <DanChapman> mhall119:  I had that earliercreating a new click target seemed to solve it. I'm now struggling with it saying can't open / find manifest
[17:08] <mhall119> DanChapman: I created the new click target, still having that issue :(
[17:10] <DanChapman> mhall119: do the click files have to be in the root of the build dir? I've placed them in trojita/qtc_packaging/click_ubuntu/ since jkt will not accept a patch for them to be in the src rootdir :-/
[17:11] <mhall119> DanChapman: what we can do is have cmake copy them from qtc_packaging/click_ubuntu/ into the build target directory root
[17:11] <mhall119> I agree with jkt on this, they shouldn't be in the trojita project root
[17:12] <DanChapman> mhall119: that's what i'm trying :-) and it don't work atm. Plus QtC is going to create new manifests in root each time you open the project even though we have put them elsewhere
[17:13] <mhall119> yeah, I talked to bzoltan1 about qtcreator always making new ones in the project root a while ago
[17:13] <mhall119> for now, we can tell git to ignore them so they won't get placed into the repo
[17:16] <DanChapman> mhall119: ok cool, do these look ok to you https://github.com/dpniel/trojita/tree/run_on_touch/qtc_packaging/click_ubuntu
[17:19] <mhall119> DanChapman: the only thing I'm not sure about is the name, I'd been using net.flaska.trojita
[17:19] <mhall119> popey: ^^ can we use a name like that in the click store?
[17:19] <DanChapman> cool i'll change that. That wouldn't stop it from running now though would it?
[17:19] <mhall119> or will it need to be com.ubuntu.developer.*
[17:20] <mhall119> DanChapman: it wont' stop it, no, as long as it matches what's in the applicationName property of the MainView
[17:20] <mhall119> my only concern is the app store policy
[17:20] <mhall119> beuno: ^^ maybe you can weight in on that
[17:29] <dobey> pmcgowan: yay! you assigned my keyboard bug. will be very happy to see that fixed :)
[17:29] <pmcgowan> dobey, it is annoying I admit
[17:33] <dobey> pmcgowan: indeed. even more so now that i have a device that ubuntu supports screen rotation on. sometimes the keyboard will pop up in the wrong orientation (but not sure where exactly that bug belongs yet)
[17:33] <Tassadar> dobey: on my n5, it tries to rotate every time the phone vibrates for some reason, the sensitivity is way to high
[17:33] <dobey> possibly a side effect of the rotation sensing being overly sensitive, and the "oh you tapped something" vibration existing
[17:34] <dobey> Tassadar: yeah, same here
[17:34] <dobey> Tassadar: but sometimes only the keyboard is rotated, the app will remain in portrait mode, but the keyboard pops up in landscape
[17:34] <Tassadar> but I don't think the screen rotation is in a state bug reports like that are valuable
[17:34] <Tassadar> yet
[17:34] <pmcgowan> dobey, it should not pop in wrong orientation, thought we fixed all of those
[17:34] <Tassadar> heh, didn't notice that, but I don't use it very much
[17:34] <dobey> pmcgowan: it does sometimes on my nexus 5
[17:35] <pmcgowan> dobey, file against keyboard then
[17:35] <dobey> pmcgowan: but it could be something else causing it there. like Tassadar, the rotation/vibration bit is extremely sensitive
[17:35] <pmcgowan> especially if you can reproduce it
[17:35] <pmcgowan> that would be down lower in the service
[17:36] <dobey> yeah
[17:36] <pmcgowan> wonder if its worse on n5
[17:36] <pmcgowan> but being out of sycn with the app rotation is osk
[17:36] <dobey> probably, the n5 is lighter than the n4 at least
[17:36] <dobey> hmm, ok
[17:36] <pmcgowan> I mean, it could be the service and timing, but fine to track it there
[17:36] <dobey> i'll take a screenshot next time it happens
[17:36] <pmcgowan> ok
[17:45] <DanChapman> mhall119: where is the run configuration defined? it seems to be set to 'trojita' as default which doesn't seem right since binary etc is 'trojita-ubu'
[17:47] <Hashcode> rsalveti: ping
[17:47] <mhall119> DanChapman: under the "project" section, I found I had to remove the run configuration and re-add it, then it worked
[17:48] <mhall119> fwiw, mine was looking for ${BUILD_DIR}/armhf/trojita-ubu not ${BUILD_DIR}/trojita
[17:48] <mhall119> DanChapman: I noticed that with the latest upstream, we're back to showing the oldest email at the top, rather than the newest, was that intentional?
[17:49] <DanChapman> mhall119:  o.O let me check that, is that the latest as in last 30 mins or so?
[17:50] <DanChapman> What's the 'Ubuntu Project'  run configuration?
[17:51] <mhall119> no idea, I don't have that
[17:52] <mhall119> DanChapman: v0.4.1-182-g7970633 is the version I'm testing
[17:56] <DanChapman> mhall119: that would be a bug. I'll fix that now
[19:03] <rsalveti> Hashcode: pong
[19:03] <Hashcode> rsalveti: i got a build to roll last night
[19:03] <Hashcode> I had a question about this ramdisk.img check
[19:04] <Hashcode> And then I can post a review item
[19:04] <Hashcode> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=e0dZwpR4
[19:04] <Hashcode> rsalveti: That first change needs to be fixed
[19:04] <Hashcode> I basically removed the extra check for "ramdisk.img"
[19:04] <Hashcode> But
[19:04] <rsalveti> cool
[19:04] <Hashcode> I think the right way to fix that would be pull the "not" items outside the () or ()
[19:04] <Hashcode>  so that if both aren't there it fails
[19:05] <Hashcode> rather than failing if either one isnt there
[19:05] <rsalveti> right, makes sense
[19:05] <Hashcode> In your prebuilt devices is there a ramdisk.img?
[19:05] <rsalveti> yup, that's the ubuntu initramfs, and needed for the boot.img
[19:06] <Hashcode> I don't ever see a "ramdisk.img" in that area
[19:06] <Hashcode> I have BOOT/RAMDISK
[19:06] <Hashcode> which fulfills the 1 check
[19:06] <rsalveti> do you have it at out?
[19:06] <rsalveti> you should have
[19:06] <Hashcode> I do have it at out
[19:06] <rsalveti> android-ramdisk.img
[19:06] <Hashcode> I have both
[19:06] <rsalveti> and ramdisk.img
[19:06] <rsalveti> ok
[19:06] <Hashcode> did you want to change the location of that check?
[19:06] <Hashcode> I don't think it'll ever be in sourcedir
[19:07] <rsalveti> not in sourcedir
[19:07] <rsalveti> don't think android does
[19:07] <Hashcode> os.path.join(os.getenv('OUT'), "ramdisk.img")
[19:07] <rsalveti> I thought yesterday it was able to find the ramdisk.img, but just not able to find the right files in it
[19:07] <Hashcode> would be a better check?
[19:07] <rsalveti> let me check the code
[19:07] <Hashcode> It uses the expanded "RAMDISK" files under "BOOT"
[19:07] <Hashcode> in my buikd
[19:08] <Hashcode> which I think also works
[19:08] <Hashcode> that's the ubuntu ramdisk
[19:09] <rsalveti> right, then it's fine
[19:09] <rsalveti> we just need to change it to not expect any android ramdisk specific file
[19:09] <Hashcode> right
[19:09] <Hashcode> so maybe removing that "ramdisk.img" check entirely is ok
[19:10] <rsalveti> probably
[19:10] <Hashcode> I can put this up on review, but it'd be great to another another user test it
[19:10] <rsalveti> as long you have a boot.img containing the kernel + ubuntu initramfs, you're good
[19:10] <rsalveti> inside the ota zip
[19:10] <Hashcode> yeah I do
[19:10] <rsalveti> sure
[19:10] <Hashcode> I haven't begun testing the actual boot yet
[19:11] <Hashcode> I re-wrote the bootloader on my test device so that I can change partition layouts etc
[19:11] <rsalveti> cool
[19:11] <Hashcode> (data/media)
[19:11] <Hashcode> I never had the right storage setup before
[19:11] <Hashcode> on my serial out device anyway
[19:29] <Hashcode> rsalveti: is there a hook you're using to get an auto "Signed-off-by" line in gerrit?
[19:29] <rsalveti> Hashcode: just git commit -s
[19:29] <Hashcode> Ajh
[19:29] <Hashcode> thanks
[19:59] <SilasGb> Hey all, I just started looking into Ubuntu touch, but I don't think it is quite what I am looking for.  I want to turn my old phone into a linux / ubuntu device, maybe add a external power source and hard drive, not use it as a phone but as a mini-computer / server.  Any thoughts or know where I can look for this more? (Galaxy s1 or s2)
[20:10] <lotuspsychje> SilasGb: look here for the supported devices: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[20:12] <SilasGb> thanks lotuspsychje; I saw that before and wasn't sure I wanted to use ubuntu touch as I am less concerned with the screen and phone, and more want to use the hardware.  I'll give it a go though.  Thanks again
[20:12] <lotuspsychje> SilasGb: the new ubuntu touch works pretty nicely on nexus7 and nexus4
[20:14] <lotuspsychje> SilasGb: it can only get better, as ubuntu will come out later this year on meizu phones
[20:18] <SilasGb> I have no doubt.  But I don't want to use my old phone as a phone, I want it for other work, robots copters and such.  I figure it already has a lot of the hardware I need, but I don't want to write a custom android or os.  I would rather just make it an embedded linux box that I can connect to via minicom to push stuff and run commands, connect via wireless for debug and new instructions; then just drop some code in python or c to run the commands I
[20:18] <SilasGb>  want.
[20:18] <SilasGb> was going to start with the linux core first and make sure that all works, then try to incorporate new hardware with some pic controllers or something.
[20:19] <lotuspsychje> cool project :p
[20:19] <SilasGb> yeah, lot of work and most of it over my head, but I need to do something and it sounds fun.
[20:20] <SilasGb> but starting is always the hard part.
[20:20] <lotuspsychje> i didnt like the smell of android the moment i tasted it :p
[20:20] <SilasGb> I actually have liked it.  I don't like the "never close anything we'll do that for you" way of programing.
[20:21] <lotuspsychje> i like the security of ubuntu now :p
[20:21] <lotuspsychje> on my n7 :p
[20:24] <SilasGb> I actually haven't used anything ubuntu in a while.  Ubuntu 11 didn't work out of the box on my laptop and I had no idea what I was doing.  ubuntu 12 never worked quite right for me and so I jumped to fedora for a while (PITA), then to mint. but the phone stuff has looked interesting and I've been thinking of trying it on my old devices.
[20:25] <lotuspsychje> you should try 14.04 trusty
[20:25] <SilasGb> my devices are i777 though, so I don't think there is a port working yet.
[20:25] <lotuspsychje> its has improved alot
[20:25] <lotuspsychje> well hopefully for you the final ubuntu touch will support more devices then
[20:26] <lotuspsychje> i bought me a n7 specially for ubuntu, i couldnt wait other devices release
[20:26] <lotuspsychje> and dont like ipads or androids so
[20:27] <lotuspsychje> got me ubuntu on all my devices at home
[20:28] <Hashcode> SilasGb: my laptop never ran all that well on ubuntu 11/12.xx releases
[20:28] <Hashcode> but it runs quite well on 14.04
[20:28] <Hashcode> kernel updates have a lot to do with it
[20:29] <verdeP> is there like an ubuntu penguin or something lotuspsychje to go along with it? xD
[20:29] <SilasGb> it's his device charger
[20:29] <lotuspsychje> verdeP: lolz
[20:29] <lotuspsychje> verdeP: ive been messing with linux for long while can you tell :p
[20:30] <SilasGb> Hashcode: yeah I had some kernel issues on the mint side to. One of these days I will break down and try building from source for my computer to just see if it goes well.
[20:30] <verdeP> lotuspsychje: aye, only 12 years for me q.q
[20:31] <lotuspsychje> verdeP: time has no importance in learning :p
[20:31] <Hashcode> SilasGb: try 14.04 it's quite nice.  Uses 3.13.x kernel line
[20:31] <verdeP> thats some positive thinking ^^
[20:31] <lotuspsychje> Hashcode: agree, trusty is real nice
[20:32] <verdeP> I still gotta decide when to upgrade my server to 14 xD
[20:32] <lotuspsychje> verdeP: running 12.04 server?
[20:32] <dobey> hmm
[20:32] <verdeP> yep
[20:32] <lotuspsychje> verdeP: as what?
[20:32] <verdeP> as everything under the sun lol xD
[20:33] <lotuspsychje> lol
[20:33] <lotuspsychje> that sounds malicious :p
[20:33] <verdeP> its just for fun, actually mostly just for my irc
[20:35] <lotuspsychje> i run trusty 64bit on samsung ssd 120gig evo on acer netbook
[20:35] <lotuspsychje> rocketfast with all tweaks
[20:36] <verdeP> ah nice, my home computers are still macs for the most part, but server stuff linux all the way
[20:37] <verdeP> I watch this channel mostly cause I want this to happen lol, cause I don't like android and I don't like where iOS is going, and someday I'm gonna want a new phone lol
[20:37] <lotuspsychje> lol
[20:37] <lotuspsychje> same here mate
[20:37] <lotuspsychje> ipads and androids
[20:38] <lotuspsychje> that google play store is like a nightmare
[20:38] <verdeP> ah yeah
[20:38] <lotuspsychje> playground for malicious apps
[20:38] <verdeP> yeah one of my friends is planning to switch from iOS to Android and they are extremely computer illiterate and I'm like oh god pls no xD cause I don't wanna have to keep tabs on them so they don't get hosed or something xD
[20:39] <lotuspsychje> lol
[20:39] <dobey> when ubuntu has as many apps as android does in the app store, i'm sure some might say the same of it. malicious people are going to upload malicious things to all the app stores
[20:39] <verdeP> yeah that is true
[20:39] <verdeP> but somehow it feels different
[20:39] <lotuspsychje> there are dangerous ppa's for ubuntu now aswell
[20:39] <dobey> verdeP: get them a nexus 4 and put ubuntu on it :)
[20:40] <lotuspsychje> but its harder for intrusion to takeover ubuntu
[20:40] <dobey> a lot of the PPAs that are dangerous are just people not knowing how to build packages correctly
[20:40] <dobey> not really malicious
[20:40] <verdeP> mmm
[20:41] <dobey> if you find malicious stuff in a PPA though, please do report it on https://answers.launchpad.net/answers
[20:41] <lotuspsychje> dobey: didnt find anything unusual yet on touch
[20:42] <lotuspsychje> ive installed nmap and other terminal stuff
[20:42] <lotuspsychje> just to test things out
[20:42] <lotuspsychje> cant find any pdf support neither too
[20:42] <verdeP> wireshark on phone would be nice
[20:42] <lotuspsychje> verdeP: some guy tested it in here last time
[20:43] <verdeP> ah cool
[20:43] <lotuspsychje> verdeP: seemed like it didnt pickup the capture
[20:43] <lotuspsychje> didnt work well
[20:43] <verdeP> oh
[20:43] <lotuspsychje> nmap works good for me
[20:43] <lotuspsychje> irrsi too
[20:43] <lotuspsychje> links2 not
[20:44] <MrTurkelton> helle i have a litte questions about the new ubuntu tocu, i know the old nexus 7 2012 is not maintend, but is there any solution to run the new image on the old nexus?
[20:45] <lotuspsychje> MrTurkelton: i dont think its supported
[20:45] <dobey> if there are community builds for it, you can run those
[20:45] <dobey> but there are no images for it on the official images server any more
[20:45] <MrTurkelton> dobey; Where i can find this images
[20:46] <lotuspsychje> xda forum maybe?
[20:46] <MrTurkelton> i haven´t find anything in xdas about custom ubuntu touch roms
[20:46] <dobey> ubuntu-device-flash --channel devel-proposed --server="http://system-image.tasemnice.eu" maybe
[20:47] <lotuspsychje> http://www.xda-developers.com/android/installing-ubuntu-touch-on-the-2012-nexus-7-xda-developer-tv/
[20:48] <MrTurkelton> @lotuts thsi is the last supportet image from canoncial
[20:50] <lotuspsychje> not sure
[20:52] <dobey> that post is also 6 months old
[20:52] <lotuspsychje> not latest then
[20:52] <dobey> that was for when it ws supported, and when phablet-flash was the tool to use
[20:52] <dobey> well it will be whatever the latest image is in the channel referenced, assuming there is an image in the channel
[20:55] <Hashcode> rsalveti: more questions when you get the time
[21:18] <tonetheman> once you run the command ubuntu-device-flash do you need to do anything on the device? mine is sitting at a record screen
[21:30] <rsalveti> Hashcode: sure
[21:31] <Hashcode> rsalveti: just some observations ..
[21:31] <Hashcode> and I'm not sure if this is how current devices are booting
[21:31] <Hashcode> but the busybox I'm getting in the ubuntu ramdisk is linked
[21:31] <Hashcode> libc and libld
[21:31] <rsalveti> right, I think there's a minimal libc in there as well
[21:31] <rsalveti> let me extract it here
[21:32] <Hashcode> under /lib?
[21:32] <rsalveti> the android build process doesn't build it, just grabs the binary from the archive
[21:32] <Hashcode> right
[21:32] <Hashcode> its named this in /lib
[21:32] <Hashcode> klibc-JsQhEnahZRs4zAFAYMqmbGmjTlY.so
[21:32] <rsalveti> right
[21:33] <rsalveti> there are a few other libs in there as well
[21:33] <Hashcode> but the busybox bin is linked against libc.so.6
[21:33] <Hashcode> as far as references
[21:33] <Hashcode> and ld-linux-armhf.so.3
[21:33] <Hashcode> which is there
[21:34] <Hashcode> ah
[21:34] <rsalveti> don't you have it under /lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf?
[21:34] <Hashcode> I see libc there yeah
[21:34] <Hashcode> so it's odd
[21:34] <Hashcode> if I replace it with a static binary
[21:34] <Hashcode> it does execute
[21:34] <Hashcode> but right off the bat if I don't
Failed to execute /init
Kernel panic - not syncing: No init found.  Try passing init= option to kernel. See Linux Documentation/init.txt for guidance.
[21:35] <Hashcode> Just making sure my ramdisk build is standard, I guess
[21:35] <rsalveti> weird, it should be
[21:35] <Hashcode> The other issue I notice
[21:35] <rsalveti> as I said, it's not modified at all
[21:35] <Hashcode> grep / find commands in the touch script don't seem to be working
[21:35] <Hashcode> And I don't notice those commands linked to busybox in /bin
[21:36] <Hashcode> But then, maybe I'm not understanding how those are working
[21:38] <rsalveti> right, there's indeed no link in there
[21:38] <Hashcode> er
[21:38] <rsalveti> wonder if it's exported to your env somehow once you open the terminal with busybox
[21:39] <Hashcode> yeah could be
[21:39] <Hashcode> I'd have to stop the boot process there and access it w/ adb somehow to test that
[21:39] <rsalveti> right, I believe we have a hook for that, ogra_ added one
[21:39] <Hashcode> yeah I saw the adb spawning
[21:39] <rsalveti> yeah, adbd is also part of the initramfs
[21:40] <rsalveti> see if you can have access via adb, then it's way easier to debug
[21:41] <Hashcode> lemme see if that works
[21:42] <Hashcode> The problem I think is that I get a panic at that point for some reason
[21:43] <rsalveti> do you get any useful message before it gives <4>Failed to execute /init ?
[21:46] <Hashcode> no not really
[21:46] <Hashcode> but like I said, I could replace it with a static busybox and it boots
[21:46] <Hashcode> into the init / touch scripts anyway
[21:46] <Hashcode> perhaps I'm missing something basic here
[21:48] <rsalveti> if busybox related, wonder how it could only break with your system
[21:48] <rsalveti> the same busybox is used on our default image
[21:48] <rsalveti> and same initramfs
[21:50] <Hashcode> yep
[21:50] <Hashcode> here's a more basic setup question
[21:50] <Hashcode> using the new 4.4.2 repos
[21:50] <Hashcode> the android part is a very simple setup
[21:51] <Hashcode> repo init
[21:51] <Hashcode> bring your gits in
[21:51] <Hashcode> lunch full_<name>-eng
[21:51] <Hashcode> make -j# otapackage
[21:51] <Hashcode> there's no special patching these days w/ phablet-tools right?
[21:51] <rsalveti> no, the only additional thing you need is the vendor blobs
[21:52] <Hashcode> ah see
[21:52] <Hashcode> but that's device specific no?
[21:52] <rsalveti> if building for a nexus device, you can grab the android-src-vendor
[21:52] <rsalveti> right
[21:52] <Hashcode> I have mine
[21:52] <rsalveti> then that's all you need
[21:52] <Hashcode> hrm
[21:52] <Hashcode> I'll do some more debugging :p
[21:52] <Hashcode> thanks for the help
[21:52] <rsalveti> np
[21:53] <Hashcode> You wouldn't have a copy of the legacy GNex kernel config would you?
[21:54] <rsalveti> let me take a look
[21:54] <rsalveti> Hashcode: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-trusty.git;a=blob;f=debian.maguro/config/config.common.ubuntu;h=e1440b73df25fdc231bbade51fe806eb9b3db9e0;hb=refs/heads/maguro
[21:55] <Hashcode> thanks again
[22:40] <doomlord_>  whats this change with mutable vs immutable closures..
[23:10] <Sense36> what is the version name of the current ubuntu touch? i am trying to use multi-rom on nexus 7
[23:28] <bact> devel


[07:38] <rickchristie1> hi i need some advice on channel scanning kaffiene gets great reception but myth is crap
[12:17] <qwebirc68520> I am still using a CRT as my wife has little time for TV
[12:18] <qwebirc68520> The problem I have is overscan. I have tried the setup in myth frontend and it
[12:19] <qwebirc68520> does not seem to work as expected, is there a zoom feature on video card driver for nvidia
[13:29] <qwebirc68520> does anyone know how to fix overscan issues. I have been trawling forums for ages trying different things wih no luck
[13:30] <qwebirc68520> I tried usig the mythtv gui but although it does scale the image it does not offset the left corner
[13:30] <mycosys> nvidia?
[13:30] <qwebirc68520> yes nvidia proprietry
[13:30] <mycosys> what output?
[13:31] <qwebirc68520> tried nvidia-settings but no slider and tried the attributes but I get an error when I list then
[13:31] <qwebirc68520> them
[13:31] <mycosys> what output
[13:31] <qwebirc68520> PALB TVOUT
[13:31] <qwebirc68520> or TV-0
[13:32] <qwebirc68520> with an CRT. My wife does not believe we need a widescreen yet
[13:32] <mycosys> yeah
[13:32] <mycosys> run nvidia-settings
[13:32] <qwebirc68520> she thinks it may cause the kids to watch more tv
[13:33] <mycosys> Nvifia linux Chapter 16. Configuring TV-Out
[13:33] <mycosys> grrr
[13:33] <qwebirc68520> nvidia-settings gui does not have the slider in the gui at lease that I can can see
[13:33] <mycosys> http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/173.14.09/README/chapter-16.html
[13:33] <Zinn> [us.download.nvidia.com] Chapter 16. Configuring TV-Out
[13:33] <mycosys> should be under tv-0
[13:33] <qwebirc68520> looking at it now
[13:33] <mycosys> the slider
[13:34] <mycosys> but you only use that for figuring out which setting you need
[13:34] <mycosys> you need to set tv standard in xorg.conf
[13:35] <qwebirc68520> any idea why a get this error when running nvidia-settings -q all
[13:35] <qwebirc68520> he program 'nvidia-settings' received an X Window System error. This probably reflects a bug in the program. The error was 'BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)'.   (Details: serial 420 error_code 8 request_code 140 minor_code 4)   (Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously;
[13:35] <mycosys> you also need to add nividia settings to your .xsessionrc to set overscan and turn off powermiser and turn on flicker filter
[13:35] <mycosys> no idea
[13:38] <mycosys> i have 'nvidia-settings -a GPUOverclockingState=1 -a [gpu:0]/GPU2DClockFreqs=300,450 -a GPU3DClockFreqs=300,450 -a [gpu:0]/GPUPowerMizerMode=1 -a [gpu:0]/TVFlickerFilter=1 -a [gpu:0]/TVOverScan=66' in my xsessionrc but the first three are for underclocking it
[13:39] <qwebirc68520> how do I turn off powermiser and what is it
[13:39] <qwebirc68520> ignore that last question, I get it
[13:40] <mycosys> yo9u will probably need to create ~/.xsessionrc
[13:41] <qwebirc68520> does it need elevated priveledges
[13:41] <mycosys> no
[13:41] <qwebirc68520> I guess not, silly question its only a config file and not private key
[13:42] <mycosys> is a user config, not a machine config is more the isuue lol
[13:42] <mycosys> *issue
[13:45] <qwebirc68520> just my luck cant paste to vnc session. some other bug
[13:47] <mycosys> ew @ vnc
[13:48] <mycosys> try winswitch / xpra
[13:49] <mycosys> or plain ol x forwarding if thats ur preference
[14:03] <qwebirc68520> no luck with scaling although the flicker filter works well
[14:03] <qwebirc68520> text is silky smooth


[21:52] <meoblast001> hi
[21:52] <meoblast001> why odnt we ever take the windows aproach?
[21:52] <meoblast001> make a good program
[21:52] <meoblast001> and make it linux only
[21:52] <meoblast001> cut microsoft's balls off
[21:53] <sbc> meoblast001: With open source that is kind of hard. Once you have a great program linux only with the source out there it should be pice of cake to make a windows / OSX port
[21:54] <meoblast001> sbc: we should make a few closed source ones (only a few)
[21:54] <meoblast001> sbc: that is one advantage microsoft has
[21:54] <meoblast001> they get all the programs we hav
[21:54] <meoblast001> e
[21:54] <meoblast001> sure... LMMS is an exclusive
[21:55] <meoblast001> but seriously.... what else is a good Linux exclusive
[21:55] <meoblast001> sbc: are we gonna get silverlight?
[21:56] <sbc> meoblast001: Proberly not right away.
[21:56] <meoblast001> sbc: it said it will only be made for Linux throught Novel
[21:56] <meoblast001> that means... SUsE only right?
[21:58] <sbc> meoblast001: Once they make a suse port it should not be hard bringing it to other linux distributions
[21:58] <meoblast001> sbc: do we currently have a way to convert SUsE packages?
[21:58] <meoblast001> does SUsE use RPM?
[21:58] <meoblast001> never triedSUse
[21:59] <sbc> meoblast001: I'm not sure, but it should not be impossible
[22:00] <meoblast001> sbc: i'll check the wine status on silverlight
[22:00] <meoblast001> i want to see if this is any good
[22:02] <meoblast001> nope it fails
[22:02] <meoblast001> youtube time
[22:12] <jonpackard> meoblast001: have you seen Moonlight? I think it's still in Beta, but the idea is it's a OSS replacement for Silverlight
[22:12] <jonpackard> here's a link if you're interested: http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
[22:13] <meoblast001> already there
[22:13] <meoblast001> what do you mean "OSS replacement"
[22:13] <meoblast001> OS replacement?
[22:13] <jonpackard> OSS = open source software
[22:13] <meoblast001> oh
[22:13] <meoblast001> shaweet
[22:13] <meoblast001> installing
[22:14] <jonpackard> like... Gnash hopefully will completely replace adobe flash for most Linux users when it is perfected =)
[22:14] <meoblast001> NOOO
[22:14] <meoblast001> i think different
[22:14] <meoblast001> Adobe should open the flash format up
[22:15] <meoblast001> GNASH is so buggy that the idea of it being good enough is hard to believe
[22:15] <meoblast001> and then Adobe would switch a bunch of stuff and GNASH would need fixed
[22:15] <jonpackard> or another example.. Nouveau can provide 3D for nvidia users instead of using proprietary modules.. it's usuable for older cards but not much love for my Geforce8 series card yet
[22:16] <meoblast001> GeForce8 isnt linux compatible?
[22:16] <meoblast001> moonlight is SLOW
[22:16] <jonpackard> I agree at this time Gnash is very limited.. I tried it and ended up switching back to Flash =(
[22:16] <meoblast001> me too
[22:16] <meoblast001> i havent had any problems with Flash proprietary edition
[22:16] <meoblast001> well
[22:17] <jonpackard> nouveau for Geforce 8 series is not quite there yet
[22:17] <meoblast001> i change my mind
[22:17] <meoblast001> i have
[22:17] <meoblast001> but it was repaired
[22:17] <meoblast001> and i use Wine + Flash 8
[22:17] <meoblast001> runs great
[22:18] <meoblast001> what does moonlight do?
[22:18] <meoblast001> lock up my browser?
[22:18] <meoblast001> its quite good at that
[22:18] <jonpackard> Wine is great but to have to use it for a program that's been ported to Lunix seems odd to me
[22:18] <meoblast001> no
[22:18] <meoblast001> Flash MX 8
[22:18] <jonpackard> ohh... i see
[22:19] <meoblast001> what is mono?
[22:20] <meoblast001> jonpackard: ?
[22:21] <jonpackard> hmm "flash for linux".. still in beta of course =) http://f4l.sourceforge.net/
[22:21] <jonpackard> mono = open source development platform based on the .NET framework
[22:21] <meoblast001> and that means?
[22:22] <meoblast001> its like WIndows for Linux?
[22:22] <jonpackard> no idea.. im a bit behind on programming.. basically it's a set of libraries for programming
[22:22] <meoblast001> oh
[22:22] <meoblast001> Novel owned?
[22:22] <jonpackard> .NET is big in windows programming now.. Novell sponsors it
[22:23] <jonpackard> mono that is.. not .NET
[22:23] <meoblast001> oh
[22:23] <meoblast001> so its supposed to encourage programmers to port to linux by easing the porting process?
[22:24] <jonpackard> not only that but to add the same capabilities for linux programs as well =)
[22:24] <jonpackard> it's not all about porting from windows
[22:25] <meoblast001> oh
[22:25] <meoblast001> that's because Microsoft is evil
[22:25] <meoblast001> we need to make them have to do the same thing
[22:25] <jonpackard> lol.. microsoft did pretty darn good for their time.. but that time is ending very quickly
[22:26] <meoblast001> not really
[22:26] <meoblast001> most ppl dont know what an OS is
[22:26] <meoblast001> and as long as it's put on their computer when they buy it
[22:26] <meoblast001> and they recognize it from the commercials
[22:26] <meoblast001> or the name
[22:26] <jonpackard> most people don't need to know.. they just want something that works
[22:26] <meoblast001> they'll use it and think that it being slow is normal
[22:27] <meoblast> ok
[22:27] <meoblast> im back
[22:28] <jonpackard> wb =)
[22:28] <meoblast> jonpackard: sorry i got disconnected
[22:28] <meoblast> so i have to wait for my old name to disappear
[22:28] <meoblast> so i can take it back
[22:28] <meoblast> anyways
[22:28] <meoblast> how are we supposed to make ppl open minded
[22:28] <meoblast> and try ubuntu out
[22:28] <meoblast> my friend eric completely dispises it but has never used it
[22:29] <meoblast> jonpackard: we need to find a way to get ppl in contact with ubuntu and break their adiction to windows
[22:29] <jonpackard> lol.. sounds like os prejudice.. how can he hate something he's not seen?
[22:29] <pep> one of the ideas is a web-accessed try out...  I haven't seen the flyers yet
[22:35] <meoblast> and hope they dont throw them right in the garbage
[22:35] <meoblast> with a live cd
[22:35] <meoblast> im waiting it out incase Intrepid comes out before school starts
[22:35] <meoblast> i'd rather give them a copy of Intrepid
[22:35] <jonpackard> make sure to have http://www.wubi-installer.org/ on there.. "one-click" Ubuntu install inside windows
[22:35] <meoblast> jonpackard: OH YEAH
[22:36] <meoblast> i forgot
[22:36] <meoblast> wubi is in the new cd's =P
[22:36] <meoblast> from Hardy +
[22:36] <meoblast> didnt know that?
[22:36] <jonpackard> i prefer to hand out CDs.. but that is the best way over the net
[22:36] <meoblast> ok had to turn compiz fusion on
[22:37] <meoblast> they need to make an easier way to adjust window opacity
[22:37] <jonpackard> gotta go catch a bus.. perhaps we can continue this tomorrow =)
[22:37] <meoblast> i like mine sitting at 85 percent
[22:37] <meoblast> k cya
[22:37] <meoblast> nice talking to you
[22:38] <jonpackard> you can change the opacity steps for Alt-Mousewheel in the compiz-settings-manager
[22:38] <jonpackard> ohh you don't usually use compiz
[22:39] <jonpackard> nice talking with you too meoblast :) later!