[05:24] <jbailey> lamont-away: Do you want me to reenable the testsuite on hppa glibc?
[05:25] <lamont-away> jbailey: how did it die before?
[05:25] <jbailey> Hang during build, process needed to be killed, IIRC.
[05:29] <jbailey>     * Fix symbol problems on sparc32/sparc64.
[05:29] <jbailey>       - debian/patches/ubuntu-new-binutils.dpatch: Same patch as needed
[05:29] <jbailey>         for powerpc.
[05:29] <jbailey>     * Fix stricted iitlbp handling on hppa:
[05:29] <jbailey>       - debian/patches/hppa-iitlbp.dpatch: New file.
[05:29] <jbailey>       - debian/patches/00list: Update.
[05:29] <jbailey>     * Don't do parallel on hppa, it gets sad.
[05:29] <jbailey>       - debian/sysdeps/hppa.mk: Force NJOBS to be 1.
[05:29] <jbailey> Anyone have any further requests?
[05:35] <lamont-away> can't think of any immediate needs
[01:53] <jbailey> fabbione: Something else changed in the sparc64 toolchain:
[01:53] <jbailey> checking for sparc64 TLS support... no
[01:54] <jbailey> checking for sparc64 TLS support... yes
[01:55] <jbailey> fabbione: And for some reason I wasn't explicit with the fact that they need to be disabled.
[01:56] <jbailey> My guess is that the binutils is now simply ready for it.
[01:56] <fabbione> ah
[01:56] <fabbione> interesting
[01:56] <jbailey> Which on one hand is *great*
[01:56] <jbailey> The compiler appears to support __thread, as well.
[01:56] <jbailey> So it might mean that sparc64 should get nptl on the next upload.
[01:56] <fabbione> jbailey: you are welcome to poke in that chroot
[01:56] <fabbione> it has the binutils symbol duplication patch
[01:57] <fabbione> or otherwise just dselect update
[01:57] <jbailey> This'll be too interactive for such a laggy connection.  I think I'll plug in my local sparc box.
[01:57] <fabbione> and get the latestet from archive
[01:57] <fabbione> ok
[01:57] <jbailey> Your box is just a u5, right?
[01:58] <fabbione> netra t1
[01:58] <fabbione> a bit faster than a u5
[01:58] <jbailey> Hmm.
[01:58] <jbailey> 876 bogomips
[01:58] <jbailey> Might be faster than mine.
[01:58] <jbailey> Of course, you're runnign builds in the background as well.
[01:59] <jbailey> So it's probably an overall win to do this here.
[01:59] <fabbione> but i have a fresh ccache :)
[01:59] <jbailey> This change will invalidate it.
[01:59] <fabbione> ah
[01:59] <fabbione> ok
[01:59] <jbailey> Hmm
[01:59] <jbailey> Actually, only for sparc64.
[02:00] <jbailey> The other two might be fine.
[02:00] <jbailey> Hmmhmmhmm
[02:00] <jbailey> No, it will invalidate it everywhere.
[02:00] <jbailey> I'll be changing elf/tls.h
[02:01] <fabbione> ok :)
[02:04] <jbailey> Did Sparc do flight-1 CDs?
[02:05] <fabbione> no AFAIk
[02:05] <fabbione> i didn't even bother to ask Kamion because of the buildd being way behind
[02:06] <jbailey> 'kay.
[02:06] <jbailey> I'm not setup for netboot, is there any chance of making flight-2?
[02:06] <jbailey> My box is runnign and all, but it was a hacked-up installation to work around the broken CD.
[02:06] <jbailey> Now that apt is fixed, I would love to be able to do a proper install.
[02:13] <fabbione> i hope so
[02:13] <fabbione> you can still just dist-upgrade
[02:13] <fabbione> or install ubuntu-desktop
[02:15] <jbailey> Eh?
[02:15] <jbailey> I did all the partitioning, the silo install, etc.
[02:15] <jbailey> by hand
[02:15] <jbailey> So the system isn't a standard install.  I loaded the CD, ran debootstrap and such on it myself.
[02:16] <jbailey> A total rescue operation. =)
[02:21] <fabbione> ah ok
[02:21] <fabbione> ehehe
[08:27] <jbailey> fabbione: Sparc64 with nptl just passed configure.
[08:27] <jbailey> We'll see how it goes. =)
[08:27] <fabbione> jbailey: coolish :)
[08:29] <jbailey> fabbione: If this works, I'll make this change when I do the merge.  That should be the next upload.
[08:30] <fabbione> sure
[08:30] <fabbione> perfect
[08:30] <fabbione> it works for me
[08:30] <fabbione> i am in no hurry to build X
[08:30] <fabbione> that's the only blocker i have atm


[01:16] <TheLordOfTime> ScottK, standard "subscribe ubuntu-sponsors" method for bugfixing a raring package, or do I need to follow a different procedure than standard?
[01:21] <xnox> TheLordOfTime: ubuntu-sponsors should be subscribed if there is something to sponsor - like a debdiff or a patch.
[01:22] <xnox> if there is branch merge proposal, it's already subscribed.
[01:22] <TheLordOfTime> xnox, its a debdiff
[01:22]  * TheLordOfTime can't use bzr effectively to save his life, so... :P
[01:22] <xnox> subscribe ubuntu-sponsors if the next step ;-)
[01:22] <TheLordOfTime> xnox, done.  :P
[01:22] <TheLordOfTime> xnox, do they get a notification that they've been subscribed?
[01:22] <TheLordOfTime> or do I have to say something after subscribing them?
[01:22] <xnox> TheLordOfTime: better, we have a queue: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
[01:23] <TheLordOfTime> cool
[01:23] <xnox> and we have schedule of daily patch pilots reviewing and uploading patches
[01:23] <TheLordOfTime> xnox, by priority or just by whatever's at the top of the list?
[01:23] <TheLordOfTime> xnox, because we've got a case of a Universe package not working out of the box due to a faulty default config file.
[01:24] <TheLordOfTime> (in Raring)
[01:24] <xnox> TheLordOfTime: bug number?
[01:24] <TheLordOfTime> xnox, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/+bug/1132678
[01:24] <TheLordOfTime> easy workaround (add something on a line)
[01:24] <TheLordOfTime> that "Fix Committed" was done by the debian maintainers
[01:25] <TheLordOfTime> not but it throws an "emerg" and then doesn't run correctly
[01:25] <TheLordOfTime> xnox, TBPH i'd like to get this in ASAP, but if there's higher priority stuff then i'll be as patient as I can be with the emails about it.
[01:26] <TheLordOfTime> bleh, random words on my keyboard, time to check my OS again for bugs... >.>
[01:30] <ScottK> TheLordOfTime: Standard.
[01:31] <TheLordOfTime> ScottK, you were ninja'd by xnox :P
[01:31] <TheLordOfTime> but *shrugs*
[01:31] <ScottK> I saw, but I still like to answer the questions directly asked of me.
[01:31] <TheLordOfTime> I'll leave this be, apparently my keyboard's being stupid :P
[02:20]  * xnox checks the pilot schedule, damn it's me again actually.
[02:39] <ESphynx> xnox: Should I be assigning my Ubuntu FFe bug to ubuntu-sponsor as well? :) Also should I be bugging someone to assign it to Raring? :)
[02:40] <xnox> ESphynx: what FFe bug?!
[02:42] <ESphynx> xnox: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ecere-sdk/+bug/1153763 this one =)
[02:46] <xnox> ESphynx: there is no need for FFe, "converted" to a sync request.
[02:47] <ESphynx> xnox: convoluted? :P
[02:49] <ESphynx> Does that mean it's more likely to be fixed for Raring or less likely? :)
[02:50] <ESphynx> thanks for triaging :P
[02:53] <ScottK> xnox: You don't think that needs an FFe?  Seems to me like it has new features (BTW, needs sponsoring in Debian too before it can be sync'ed)
[02:54] <ESphynx> all depends on what you can 'features' really, to me that's a very vague term :P
[02:54] <ESphynx> at any rate I'd really appreciate if it could make it into Raring, as I've invested a great number of overtime hours to the detriment of my health to get this ready =)
[02:55] <ESphynx> but yeah, the main new 'feature' is 64 bit support... that is really a bug fix if you think about it, but it required fixing the whole SDK including the compiler to support it :)
[02:56] <ScottK> Feature includes major invasive changes, so it counts.
[02:56] <ScottK> xnox: If you sponsor in Debian, I'll approve the FFe.
[02:56] <ESphynx> sounds like a deal :) many thanks to both of you ;)
[02:57] <xnox> ScottK: ok. but i do need to read the diff & build it for debian & test, it's not a quick to review & sponsor package =))))
[02:57] <ESphynx> xnox: a milestone ahead is 'haste' which will focus on speeding up the compiler, hopefully we'll go from 23 minute build to less :P
[02:57] <ScottK> xnox: I have not given it a review.  If you sponsor, you're responsible (as usual in Debian).
[02:58] <ESphynx> xnox: Sorry to have landed on you :(
[03:15] <ESphynx> xnox: I missed 2 lintian warnings overrides, sorry
[03:16] <xnox> not your fault, I do end up sucked into weird packages all the time. I guess it's karma =)
[07:45] <dholbach> good morning
[09:43] <freeflying> are we still using revu for package review/sponsorship seeking?
[09:43] <freeflying> or there is similar website
[09:47] <tumbleweed> there's also mentors.debian.net (and we prefer new packages to be added to Debian, not Ubuntu)
[09:47] <tumbleweed> and for changes to packages already in the archive, just stick a debdiff in a LP bug
[09:48] <freeflying> tumbleweed: what about a new upstream release in Ubuntu
[09:49] <tumbleweed> freeflying: debdiff restricted to the debian directory?
[09:49] <tumbleweed> or a bzr merge proposal
[09:50] <freeflying> tumbleweed: not restricted to debian dir
[09:51] <tumbleweed> freeflying: ?
[09:53] <freeflying> tumbleweed: like upstream has a new release, and maintainer has it packaged, which is the best workflow for him to seek for sponsoring upload
[09:53] <tumbleweed> I suggested two: a debdiff filtered on /debian/ or a bzr merge proposal
[09:53] <tumbleweed> both are fine
[09:53] <tumbleweed> also, don't forget we are past feature freeze, so getting new releases in is hard
[10:14] <freeflying> tumbleweed: indeed
[14:00]  * xnox ponders to ship a package emacs-os, it will override and replace .desktop files, for example gnome-calculator.desktop Exec=emacs --eval '(calc)' and so on.
[14:01] <ogra_`> will it overrride the kernel ?
[20:37] <jtaylor> noooooo
[20:37] <jtaylor> pbuilder-dist does not take --save-after-login?
[20:37] <jtaylor> just lost 4 hour scipy compilation I wanted to reuse
[20:38] <tumbleweed> it takes arbitrary arguments
[20:38] <tumbleweed> (IIRC)
[20:39] <jtaylor> apparently not save-after-login
[20:39] <jtaylor> in raring
[20:39] <jtaylor> it does accept bindmounts
[20:39] <jtaylor> (but not bindmount)
[20:40] <tumbleweed> no, seriously, arguments are passed through unmodified
[20:40] <jtaylor> why doesn't it work then?
[20:41] <jtaylor> also does it really pass through?
[20:41] <tumbleweed> that's for you to find out :)
[20:41] <tumbleweed> yes
[20:41] <jtaylor> it explicitly rejects bindmount
[20:41] <jtaylor> whereas save-after-loginis just silently ignored
[20:42]  * tumbleweed can't see any code to reject bindmount
[20:42] <jtaylor> so at least something is inconsistent
[20:42] <tumbleweed> --debug-echo is your friend btw
[20:43] <jtaylor> hm
[20:43] <jtaylor> it only drops save-after-login with powerpc
[20:43] <jtaylor> not amd64
[20:44] <tumbleweed> lol
[20:44] <jtaylor> kind of sucks as its more useful with ppc :/
[20:45] <jtaylor> oh no I just overlooked it
[20:45] <jtaylor> so its a pbuilder issue
[20:45] <tumbleweed> \o/
[20:45] <tumbleweed> seriously?
[20:46] <jtaylor> an ordering issue
[20:46] <tumbleweed> ah
[20:46] <jtaylor> pbuilder-dist puts it to the end of the line
[20:46] <jtaylor> putting it behind the --login works
[20:46] <tumbleweed> if the ordering matters, we can force the right ordering
[20:50] <jtaylor> hm no
[20:50] <jtaylor> its not related to ordering
[20:51] <jtaylor> its qemu :/
[20:51] <jtaylor> if I trigger a unsupported ioctl in the chroot
[20:51] <jtaylor> the chroot is not stored
[20:51] <jtaylor> unfortunately triggering it is easy, just press °c
[20:51] <jtaylor> ^C
[20:52] <tumbleweed> hehe
[20:52] <tumbleweed> how does pbuilder know that you triggered an unsupported ioctl?
[20:52] <tumbleweed> does it get a signal?
[20:53] <jtaylor> I don't think pbuilder handles that
[20:53] <tumbleweed> pbuilder does the storing of the chroot when you are done with it
[20:54] <jtaylor> yes I wonder how the ioctl could mess that up
[20:54] <jtaylor> maybe not the chroot shell gets the ^C but pbuilder itself
[20:54] <jtaylor> so pbuilder aborts?
[20:56] <tumbleweed> dunno. strace/gdb?
[20:56] <tumbleweed> the one odtity with qemu-user-static chroots is that you can't have setuid binaries, but I can't see how that's relevant here
[20:57] <tumbleweed> s/one/usual/
[20:58] <jtaylor> pbuilder is a shells script, not so nice for gdb
[20:58] <jtaylor> on the other hand I can just put echos in
[21:01] <jtaylor> yes it gets the signal from the chroot
[21:01] <jtaylor> it traps that so it cleans up after itself
[21:01] <jtaylor> but it does not handle save-after-login anymore
[21:01] <tumbleweed> rigth
[21:02] <tumbleweed> schroot++


[11:29] <freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
[11:29] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 26 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 21:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Apr 06:00: Kubuntu
[12:23] <lucasvo> @schedule gmt+1
[12:23] <lucasvo> @schedule GMT+2
[12:24] <lucasvo> Ubugtu is dead?
[12:24] <lucasvo> @schedule
[12:24] <Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
[12:24] <lucasvo> @schedule GMT+2
[12:25] <lucasvo> @schedule UTC+2
[12:25] <lucasvo> @schedule Berlin
[12:25] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Apr 00:00: Kubuntu
[12:41] <ubuntu_lt> @schedule Vilnius
[12:41] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 25 Apr 23:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 16:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 05:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Apr 01:00: Kubuntu
[09:30] <zul> meeting is half hour isnt it?
[09:32] <mjg59> Yup
[09:32] <simira> which?
[09:32] <zul> TB
[09:32] <simira> tech
[09:32] <simira> when's the next cc?
[09:33] <zul> next week i think
[09:36] <Seveas> not yet set
[09:55] <ogra> hmm the agenda is emty again
[09:55] <ogra> *empty
[09:55] <janimo> candidates
[09:56] <ogra> i dont see a valid main candidate
[09:56] <dholbach> mdz, mjg59, Keybuk: gloubigoula (Gauvain) asked me to tell you that he'd be 30 minutes late
[09:56] <ogra> and the universe candidates didnt change much either
[09:56] <dholbach> wasabi?
[09:56] <Keybuk> dholbach: given the agenda, he's likely to miss the meeting
[09:56] <dholbach> I'm very sorry that it has to happen. He's a real asset for Universe.
[09:57] <mdz> Keybuk: we have sfllaw as well
[09:57] <Keybuk> mdz: we do, how?
[09:57] <janimo> seconded, gloububoulga is very good
[09:58] <janimo> very helpful in xubuntu land
[09:58] <Keybuk> mdz: HE ISN'T ON MY LIST :p
[09:58] <mdz> Keybuk: well, he can speak for himself, but I presume he'd like to be able to upload
[09:58] <Keybuk> sfllaw: add yourself to the list <g>
[09:59] <mdz> sfllaw: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev
[09:59] <sfllaw> So many lists to add myself to.
[09:59] <ogra> membership ?
[09:59] <sfllaw> I didn't even know I was on the Core Development Team until five seconds ago.
[09:59] <sfllaw> Ta da!
[09:59] <ogra> (will that be sorted afterwards ?)
[10:00] <mdz> sfllaw: you aren't yet
[10:00] <sfllaw> Well there we go.
[10:01] <mdz> sfllaw: the basic process for gaining upload privileges in Ubuntu is to apply for membership in the appropriate team and turn up at a meeting (like this one) to be considered
[10:01] <Keybuk> random thought, why doesn't irc.ubuntu.com point to freenode?
[10:01] <mdz> sfllaw: typically you bring along an existing member who has worked with you and can speak on your behalf
[10:01] <ogra> mdz, couldnt we just make employees automatically members ?
[10:01] <ogra> (i think its worth a policy change)
[10:02] <ogra> i mean signed contract yadda yadda ...
[10:02] <mdz> ogra: that strikes me as inappropriate, and if I'm not mistaken, sabdfl has explicitly spoken against it
[10:02] <Keybuk> Let's Get It Started!
[10:02] <ogra> ok
[10:02] <mdz> sfllaw: presumably jbailey would advocate you; is he available by any chance?
[10:03] <sfllaw> I'm under the impression that he's "being a booth babe".
[10:03] <sfllaw> But let me look.
[10:03] <sfllaw> He doesn't seem to be online.
[10:03] <sfllaw> I'm afraid that I can't say whether jbailey would absolutely vouch for me.
[10:03] <sfllaw> But I'm presuming he would.
[10:04] <mdz> I'll try his mobile
[10:05] <dholbach> I can try to say some bits: I was in touch with sfllaw around 2 years ago, when I used wvstreams for a project - at that time I was impressed on how fast he reacted, analyzed the problem I had and got the fix either into Debian or fixed it directly upstream. That's what I can say about his Debian / packaging skills.
[10:05] <dholbach> sfllaw: for how long have you been a Debian maintainer now?
[10:06] <mdz> jbailey was just walking onto an airplane, he won't be able to make it
[10:06] <ogra> dholbach, thats already 2 years ago ? woah
[10:06] <Keybuk> mdz: if it crashes, we're blaming you
[10:06] <ogra> *back
[10:07] <dholbach> Keybuk: don't make that kind of jokes shortly before release :)
[10:07] <sivang> was ubuntu existing then? :)
[10:07] <ogra> sivang, dholbach and i met in #ubuntu at that time
[10:08] <ogra> so it existed, yes
[10:08] <dholbach> or maybe it was even longer ago
[10:08] <sivang> ogra: ah, so we already met each other probably
[10:09] <mdz> sfllaw: have you wandered off?
[10:09] <sfllaw> mdz: Nope.
[10:10] <sfllaw> dholbach: I've been looking...
[10:10] <dholbach> ah... ok :-)
[10:10] <mdz> sfllaw: it's probably best if we wait until the next meeting for this, when you have some time to prepare
[10:10] <sfllaw> Fair enough.
[10:11] <mdz> dholbach: heard from gloubigoula?
[10:11] <sfllaw> dholbach: January 2000 was when I started.
[10:11] <dholbach> mdz: yeah, as I said: he'll be 30m late, so ~20m he should be here
[10:11] <mdz> is there any other business?
[10:11] <dholbach> the only other applicant (that really meant it) was afaik wasabi
[10:11] <ogra> lifeless isnt around by chance ?
[10:11] <mjg59> Daf is around if we want to do his motu?
[10:12] <wasabi> I was an applicabt?
[10:12] <wasabi> applicant? I was wondering why you were yelling at me.
[10:12] <dholbach> wasabi: for ubuntu-dev?
[10:12] <wasabi> Already in.
[10:12] <dholbach> wasabi: I tried to highlight on all your nicks :-)
[10:12] <dholbach> wasabi: Oh sorry, I must have missed that. I just rememberd you signed up with the team.
[10:12] <wasabi> Yeah, I was "missed" in the LP migration somehow, and was too busy to notice.
[10:13] <mdz> wasabi: who took care of that for you?
[10:13] <wasabi> keybuk
[10:13] <ogra> daf sounds like a good start ...
[10:13] <mdz> ogra: daf isn't here
[10:13] <mjg59> mdz: Shall I grab daf?
[10:13] <mjg59> (He's physically here)
[10:13] <mdz> this is possibly the most chaotic tech board meeting yet ;-)
[10:13] <mdz> mjg59: his choice
[10:13] <ogra> heh
[10:14] <mjg59> 30 seconds
[10:14] <mjg59> There we go
[10:14] <wasabi> Hmm. I think I was in ubuntu-core-dev, too.
[10:14] <wasabi> But I haven't had to work on my packages in main in a long while.
[10:14] <ogra> hey daf
[10:15] <dholbach> hello daf!
[10:15] <Keybuk> wasabi: only found your ubuntu-dev meeting
[10:15] <wasabi> k. No biggy.
[10:15] <wasabi> I'm done with Java stuff anyways.
[10:16] <mdz> wasabi,Keybuk: the archive keyring was authoritative at the time
[10:16] <mdz> and that's what I worked from when migrating to LP
[10:16] <mdz> daf: welcome
[10:17] <mdz> daf: care to tell us a bit about your involvement with ubuntu and plans for future involvement?
[10:17] <daf> mostly been involved with Rosetta stuff
[10:17] <daf> occasional patches
[10:18] <daf> my impetus for upload privileges is to be able to upload stuff to Ubuntu at the same time as I upload to Debian
[10:18] <mdz> daf: you're a Debian developer as well, yes?
[10:18] <daf> aye
[10:18] <mdz> daf: which packages do you maintain there?
[10:18] <daf> er
[10:19] <daf> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=Dafydd+Harries&comaint=yes
[10:19] <daf> various things
[10:19] <daf> plus I've recently joined the GNOME team
[10:21] <mdz> daf: have you done any Ubuntu uploads through an existing developer?
[10:21] <daf> no, don't think so
[10:21] <dholbach> daf: didn't I uploaded a patch and new gnome-gpg or something?
[10:21] <dholbach> daf: or you worked on it and I synced it?
[10:22] <daf> that was a sync
[10:22] <dholbach> Ok.
[10:22] <raphink> hi there
[10:23] <raphink> hi Gloubi|AFK
[10:23] <raphink> and hi Riddell :)
[10:23] <Gloubi|AFK> hi
[10:23] <dholbach> then we investigated a bit in the gossip package
[10:23] <raphink> tb is @ 22UTC right ?
[10:23] <mdz> raphink: it's at 20UTC as always, and it's in progress right now
[10:23] <raphink> ouch sorry mdz :(
[10:23] <daf> dholbach: indeed
[10:23] <mdz> dholbach: care to comment on your experience working with daf?
[10:24] <dholbach> mdz: he was very easy to work with, we discussed some gossip bugs and had a look on a new gnome-gpg version and he was always easy to work with.
[10:25] <dholbach> He answered quickly and things were done in no time. I was happy. :-)
[10:25] <mdz> Keybuk: any questions?
[10:26] <Keybuk> mdz: no questions
[10:26] <mdz> ok
[10:26] <mdz> votes
[10:26] <mjg59> +1 on the basis that I can hit him in person if he does anything wrong
[10:27] <ogra> heh
[10:27] <Keybuk> +1 from me
[10:27] <dholbach> hahaha
[10:27] <mdz> +1 from me based on Debian experience and dholbach's advocacy
[10:27] <mdz> daf: done and done
[10:27] <mdz> daf: welcome
[10:27] <daf> thank you
[10:27] <dholbach> Excellent news! :-)
[10:27] <raphink> :)
[10:27] <ogra> welcome daf
[10:27] <mdz> Gloubiboulga: I believe you're next?
[10:27] <Riddell> daf: well done
[10:28] <mjg59> Gloubiboulga: So, what do you want to do in Ubuntu?
[10:28] <Gloubiboulga> I guess I'm the next one mdke
[10:28] <Gloubiboulga> mjg59, my work has been centered on Xubuntu for a month
[10:28] <janimo> s/work/great work/
[10:29] <Gloubiboulga> I'd like to keep working on this, even if Xfce is in main now:)
[10:29] <mdz> janimo: have you been uploading his packages?
[10:29] <janimo> mdz, yes
[10:29] <janimo> all his xfce work
[10:29] <mdz> janimo: and reviewing them before upload, presumably. ;-)  what is your assessment of his work?
[10:30] <janimo> mdz, very nice work.
[10:30] <janimo> thorough
[10:31] <mdz> Gloubiboulga: presumably you will continue to work through janimo for Xubuntu packages for now; is there any other area where you would like to work as a MOTU?
[10:31] <Gloubiboulga> mdz, not really a particular aera
[10:31] <janimo> mdz, there are still some bits left in ubinverse for xubuntu
[10:31] <janimo> he has some new uploads from xfce upstream in the queu
[10:31] <janimo> e
[10:32] <Gloubiboulga> I'm really interesting in helping new packagers
[10:32] <Gloubiboulga> I've comment some packages on REVU, it's an important part of the MOTU work imo
[10:32] <Gloubiboulga> *commented
[10:32] <ogra> yes, thats true ...
[10:33] <raphink> yes, I have advocated comments on REVU for Gloubiboulga as he sent them to me
[10:33] <ogra> Gloubiboulga is very helpful to people in -motu
[10:33] <raphink> most of good interest
[10:33] <raphink> Gloubiboulga: have you gotten in touch with laserjock to help with packaging guide?
[10:33] <dholbach> Yeah, I personally liked how he steppd up in ubuntu-bugs as well, took care of patches for issues in universe-bugs, etc
[10:33] <dholbach> I'm pleased with his work there
[10:33] <mdz> ok
[10:33] <Gloubiboulga> raphink, nop, I read his guide, discussed a few thing with him, that's it
[10:34] <mdz> Keybuk,mjg59: any questions for Gloubiboulga?
[10:34] <Keybuk> nope, no questions from me
[10:35] <mjg59> Gloubiboulga: What are your aims for xfce?
[10:35] <Gloubiboulga> mjg59, Xfce itself is fine, but Xubuntu can provide a much more usable desktop
[10:36] <Gloubiboulga> It's easily installable, comes on an iso
[10:36] <Gloubiboulga> everything is done to have a clean, stable distro using this desktop
[10:37] <mdz> Gloubiboulga: is there anything in particular that you feel is missing which you would like to work on adding?
[10:37] <janimo> Gloubiboulga has been in touch with xfce panel plugin writers, about them being in time for dapper
[10:37] <Gloubiboulga> mdz, yes, some tools are missing, like keyboard, printer manament
[10:37] <lucasvo> imho notebook support in xubuntu is poor
[10:37] <Gloubiboulga> managment*
[10:38] <Gloubiboulga> lucasvo, true
[10:38] <janimo> lucasvo: true. the only thing there is susp/hib form logout menu
[10:38] <lucasvo> janimo: exactly
[10:38] <lucasvo> no battery status etc.
[10:38] <janimo> lucasvo: there's a battrey plugin in main since yesterday
[10:38] <mdz> Gloubiboulga: are there good solutions for keyboard and printer functionality which exist but are not in Xubuntu yet?
[10:38] <Gloubiboulga> mdz, Xfce only cannot satisfy a desktop user imo
[10:38] <janimo> was in universe
[10:38] <lucasvo> janimo: ah, ok
[10:39] <janimo> Gloubiboulga actually works on the xkb plugin now, but for some reason not mentioningit
[10:39] <Gloubiboulga> mdz, you can't easily set up different keuboard layouts for exemple
[10:40] <Gloubiboulga> mdz, janimo just told it, I'm working on the xkb plugin to solve this
[10:41] <Gloubiboulga> editing xorg.conf is not an easy for most users :)
[10:41] <Gloubiboulga> esay thing even
[10:41] <mdz> ok
[10:41] <mdz> Keybuk,mjg59: votes?
[10:42] <Keybuk> +1 from me, good to get more xfce work
[10:42] <mdz> +1 for Gloubiboulga based on several MOTU recommendations and good work demonstrated with janimo
[10:43] <mdz> did we lose mjg59?
[10:43] <mdz> Gloubiboulga: at any rate you have a majority, congratulations and welcome
[10:43] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: congrats :)
[10:43] <dholbach> congratulations Gloubiboulga! welcome to the team!
[10:43] <Gloubiboulga> thanks :)
[10:43] <ogra> congrats Gloubiboulga
[10:43] <raphink> welcome Gloubiboulga :)
[10:44] <raphink> a fait plaisir de t'avoir comme dev :)
[10:44] <mdz> I believe that's the end of the agenda?
[10:44] <Gloubiboulga> merci raphink ;)
[10:44] <ogra> yep
[10:44] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, dholbach, ogra thanks a lot :)
[10:44] <dholbach> thanks everybody
[10:44] <mdke> mdz, i have a quick question, if you have time. I've written it already so it should be fast.
[10:44] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: anytime - you deserved the praise
[10:44] <mdz> mdke: shoot
[10:44] <mdke> I've vaguely followed the meeting since I joined the channel, is it correct that ubuntu membership is no longer required for becoming a developer (some of the candidates considered are not members, and some of the core-dev team don't appear to be either)? If so, I think we should update the website: it gives a slightly misleading account of the community governance process. Or alternatively, the ubuntu-members LP group may be incomplete.
[10:45] <ogra> mdke, its still required
[10:45] <mdke> so the latter?
[10:45] <mdz> mdke: they're somewhat disconnected at the moment; people generally go through the processes separately
[10:45] <mjg59> Whoops, sorry about that
[10:45] <mdz> indeed, they're handled by different groups
[10:45] <mdke> mdz, does it matter which goes first?
[10:45] <mjg59> But I agree
[10:46] <mdz> mdke: for my part, I don't mind which goes first, but they should happen close together
[10:46] <mdz> folks who are in ubuntu-dev but not members should go through the membership process
[10:46] <mdke> ok, the website is definitely misleading then
[10:47] <raphink> indeed
[10:47] <mdz> what we wanted to avoid was folks having to wait 3 weeks or more, and attend adjacent meetings, to go through the process
[10:47] <mdz> this is probably something to be discussed at CC next week
[10:47] <mdke> ok fine
[10:47] <mdz> logically, it would make sense for membership to be a prerequisite, but we've been somewhat flexible for practical reasons
[10:47] <mdz> mdke: would you put it on the CC agenda?  I'll try to be there to discuss
[10:48] <mdke> mdz, be happy to.
[10:48] <mdke> it's two problems I suppose
[10:48] <lifeless> Keybuk: am I too late?
[10:48] <mdz> lifeless: well hello, we were just about to close up
[10:49] <Keybuk> I think we can just squeeze him in
[10:49] <lifeless> thank you
[10:49] <mdz> lifeless: care to introduce yourself?
[10:49] <lifeless> Hi, I'm lifeless
[10:49] <sivang> he has a french dictionary named after him :)
[10:49] <lifeless> I'm here hoping to get upload rights to universe as a MOTU
[10:50] <ogra> yay
[10:50] <ogra> lifeless,
[10:50] <lifeless> indeed, the Robert-Collins dictionary
[10:50] <ogra> often missed here
[10:50] <lifeless> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertCollins describes most of the Ubuntu focused things I get up to
[10:51] <mdz> lifeless: you maintain a few packages in Debian as well, yes?
[10:51] <mdz> ah, it's on your wiki page
[10:51] <lifeless> yup, bicyclerepair, fl-cow, opensync, testresources
[10:52] <mdz> lifeless: who sponsors the bzr uploads to ubuntu? jbailey?
[10:52] <Mithrandir> lifeless: I don't think Ubuntu runs well on S/360s.  I don't know about S/390s, though..
[10:52] <mdz> lifeless: do you do most of the packaging work for the uploads which go directly to ubuntu?
[10:52] <lifeless> mdz: yes. bzr is currently packaged by jbailey himself
[10:53] <mdz> lifeless: are you a Debian developer, or does someone sponsor your uploads there?
[10:53] <lifeless> mdz: I'm a DD, though still a relatively new one
[10:54] <sivang> lifeless: what about i5/OS ? ;-)
[10:54] <mdz> (I asked because your Maintainer fields don't have a debian.org address)
[10:54] <lifeless> I tend to get someone to eyeball my uploads if I'm working in a new area of packaging I'm not familiar with
[10:54] <lifeless> mdz: ah.
[10:54] <Keybuk> mdz: that's not so unusual?  When I was a DD, I never used my debian.org address
[10:55] <mdz> Keybuk: not everyone does, but when they don't, it isn't immediately obvious whether they're a DD or not
[10:55] <lifeless> this is true. I guess I think of myself as 'me' and as being a DD as one facet.
[10:56] <mdz> and I'm far too lazy to go beyond apt-cache show to confirm ;-)
[10:56] <lifeless> its the same with canonical work, I usually use my home address except in rare circumstances
[10:56] <Keybuk> lifeless: so, what makes you want to join the MOTU?
[10:56] <Keybuk> what about Ubuntu interests and excites you
[10:56] <Keybuk> and what would you like to change and make better?
[10:57] <lifeless> so
[10:57] <lifeless> I want to join MOTU to be able to complete the loop when I'm helping out in #ubuntu-motu
[10:58] <lifeless> for instance, azeem and I want to make the mobile syncing stuff in ubuntu really rock for dapper +1
[10:58] <lifeless> which is why we are working on all the opensync, discussing issues with upstream
[10:58] <lifeless> and so on.
[10:58] <mdz> lifeless: what are the issues there? I'm interested
[10:59] <lifeless> mdz: multisync is essentially abandoned upstream, and the 'new' codebase 'opensync' is very unstable
[10:59] <mdz> I want to be able to sync contacts between my phone and evolution, in particular
[11:00] <mdz> does opensync have that sort of use case as a target?
[11:00] <lifeless> we've hit a number of issues in packaging - the test suite is location fragile
[11:00] <lifeless> oh yes, thats exactly what opensync is about, multisync 0.8x may well do it already
[11:01] <mdz> cool, maybe I'll find time to play with it one of these days
[11:01] <Keybuk> would opensync also let me sync the evolution address book on my laptop with that on my desktop?
[11:01] <lifeless> but the multisync 0.8 ui is (at best) crackful - the 0.9 ui based on opensync should be much much better once it all comes together
[11:01] <mjg59> Keybuk: Yes
[11:01] <lifeless> Keybuk: yes
[11:01] <lifeless> Keybuk: syncml + evo on the desktop, evo + syncml on the laptop
[11:01] <mjg59> Synchronisation is something we've really been missing out on
[11:02] <mdz> any further questions?
[11:02] <mdz> votes
[11:03] <lifeless> answering what about ubuntu interests and excites me is rather hard - I find *everything* fascinating and interesting--- its just a matter of triaging down to the things I have time to actually look at
[11:03] <mjg59> +1 based on past record and intention to work on important stuff
[11:03] <mdz> +1 based on Debian history, sanity of existing packages, etc.
[11:03] <Keybuk> +1
[11:03] <Keybuk> even though he's at least partly responsible for Arch
[11:03] <Keybuk> :)
[11:04] <mdz> lifeless: congrats
[11:04] <lifeless> I'm also 'at least partly responsible' for the solution!
[11:04] <lifeless> mdz: thank you
[11:04] <lifeless> thank you mjg59 and Keybuk too
[11:04] <mdz> any other business before workrave strangles me?
[11:05] <mdke> mdz, I've added the agenda item for the CC
[11:05] <mdz> mdke: thanks
[11:05] <ogra> yay lifeless
[11:05] <ogra> finally :)
[11:05] <mdz> not hearing any other business, adjourned
[11:05] <mdz> thanks all
[11:05] <ogra> thanks mdz
[11:05] <raphink> congrats lifeless
[11:07] <Tonio_> seems I'm a bit late this time ^^
[11:07] <raphink> huhu