[07:14] <lordievader> Good morning
[14:18] <apurkrt> hello - how to upgrade kernel (semi)automatically, when I do not want to use "apt-get dist-upgrade"?
[14:18] <apurkrt> simple "apt-get upgrade" won't touch kernel
[14:27] <rbasak> apurkrt: why don't you want to use apt-get dist-upgrade?
[14:30] <apurkrt> scared it could remove some packages... found some superficial info that "upgrade" is safer
[14:31] <apurkrt> rbasak: ^^
[14:32] <sdeziel> apurkrt: "apt-get dist-upgrade -V" will show you a nice overview of what it would like to do and will let you accept or abort
[14:32] <sdeziel> I find "-V" to be easier to visualize
[14:33] <rbasak> apurkrt: so there are effectively three settings here: 1) no new package additions or removals; 2) new package additions but no removals; 3) allow package additions _and_ removals
[14:33] <rbasak> apt-get has a simple CLI for 1 and 3 (upgrade and dist-upgrade). Achieving 2 via apt-get requires setting apt_preferences manually AFAIK
[14:34] <apurkrt> sdeziel: thanks!
[14:34] <apurkrt> rbasak: ok listening
[14:34] <rbasak> apurkrt: "apt upgrade" will do 2, but it isn't intended for automated use yet (unstable CLI).
[14:34] <rbasak> So if you care and really want 2, then you need to write your own apt_preferences file I think
[14:34] <rbasak> See apt_preferences(5).
[14:35] <rbasak> However, I wouldn't worry about the difference between 2 and 3 if you're using a stable Ubuntu release and don't have third party repositories enabled that will mess with you.
[14:35]  * apurkrt looking into it now
[14:35] <apurkrt> rbasak: ok
[14:35] <apurkrt> rbasak: thank you very much!
[14:36] <rbasak> I might have missed some easier way to achieve 2 with apt-get.
[14:36] <rbasak> You're welcome!
[15:20] <apurkrt> after logging in to ubuntu, I see "X packages can be updated.". How this works? This imo requires running "apt-get update" regularly - but grepping for in in /etc I do not see it set in /etc/cron.{hourly,daily,weekly}
[15:21] <pragmaticenigma> apurkrt: it's not using apt-get to perform the check
[15:21] <rbasak> apurkrt: look up update-motd.d
[15:22] <pragmaticenigma> rbasak: That's just the notification... not the cause
[15:22] <rbasak> apurkrt: /etc/update-motd.d/90-updates-available
[15:22] <weedmic> apurkrt: i do not understand what you want, do you want the process to list, then upgrade the items, or to set when they are checked for?
[15:22] <oerheks> i htink it is part of MOTD ?  /etc/update-motd.d/90-updates-available
[15:22] <pragmaticenigma> no no no no no
[15:22] <pragmaticenigma> that's not what they're looking for guys
[15:22] <oerheks> https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-change-welcome-message-motd-on-ubuntu-18-04-server
[15:22] <rbasak> From the update-notifier-common package
[15:22] <apurkrt> I'm basically just interested how it works
[15:22] <rbasak> /etc/cron.daily/update-notifier-common
[15:22] <pragmaticenigma> rbasak: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic
[15:23] <pragmaticenigma> https://www.garron.me/en/linux/turn-off-stop-ubuntu-automatic-update.html
[15:23] <rbasak> pragmaticenigma: I know how it works. I'm trying to provide information about the trail to help with the big picture.
[15:24] <pragmaticenigma> I have no idea what you mean by that rbasak
[15:24] <pragmaticenigma> sorry... meant tag the requestor
[15:25] <pragmaticenigma> apurkrt: in file /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic there is a setting "APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists" ... switch its value to zero
[15:25] <pragmaticenigma> apurkrt: https://www.garron.me/en/linux/turn-off-stop-ubuntu-automatic-update.html
[15:25] <rbasak> He didn't ask how to turn it off.
[15:26] <pragmaticenigma> rbasak: Perhaps not, but he was looking for where the setting was
[15:26] <rbasak> He asked how it works, not where the setting was.
[15:27] <rbasak> But anyway, I'm not going to argue.
[15:27] <rbasak> I'll leave it to you to help as needed, thanks.
[15:28] <pragmaticenigma> the config file is how it works... it's part of apt configuration which triggers all the rest of the behaviors they were discussing
[15:31] <apurkrt> thank you all!
[15:31] <Elzington> I'm curious how this works too. How does the system know that there are "X packages can be updated" when you first log into the system prior to running the command "apt-get update"? Does it run when you first log in?
[15:31] <oerheks> Elzington, see the url, it contains a script that looks for new update packages
[15:32] <Elzington> thanks
[15:32] <oerheks> some complain about the 50-motd-news thingy ..
[15:32] <oerheks> phone home, et!
[15:33] <pragmaticenigma> Elzington: Apt is setup to periodically check for updates. There is a script that is located as part of login motd that will check if apt has left a flag indicating there are updateable packages
[15:36] <Elzington> pragmaticenigma: thanks! that is interesting to know
[15:36] <Elzington> oerheks: Yeah, I can see why there would be concern with it automatically on all the time
[15:37] <pragmaticenigma> I disable them only because they slow down the login process
[15:38] <Elzington> That's a good point! I'll have to consider this now
[15:38] <oerheks> :-)
[15:39] <pragmaticenigma> the *motd-news does at least cache its response locally... so it doesn't do it every login


[00:10] <antarus> I jsut look at the source code to usb-imagewriter
[00:10] <antarus> and cry
[00:10] <antarus> one of these days I will find a tool that works ;(
[00:11] <xnox> antarus: dd ? or usb-creator. both can flash desktop/iso and armhf/sdcard images
[00:12] <xnox> antarus: and usb-imagewriter was removed from the archive. last release it was published in was quantal.
[00:15] <antarus> xnox: yeah I tnoiced
[00:16] <antarus> xnox: I haven't tried usb-creator yet
[00:16] <antarus> I'm too stupid to use dd
[00:16] <antarus> isnt' there some magical thing I need to do to make it bootable?
[00:32] <infinity> antarus: No, dding our ISOs to a USB stick should Just Work.
[00:33] <infinity> antarus: dd if=foo.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=4M
[00:33] <infinity> antarus: That's all there is to it.
[00:33] <infinity> antarus: You only need fancy things like usb-creator if you're trying to create a key with persistent session support and such.
[00:40] <antarus> excellent
[00:40] <antarus> I guess easier than burning ISOs
[00:40] <antarus> stupid cdrecord
[00:40] <antarus> we still use PXE at work, so I ignore everything else ;)
[00:45] <infinity> antarus: Yeah, I netboot a lot at home too, just to avoid sneakernetting things around.
[00:45] <infinity> 10 minutes of bootp/tftp setup for a lifetime of laziness.
[00:46] <antarus> have you set up booting over the network with UEFI?
[00:47] <infinity> Nope.  No UEFI-only machines here that I need to care about, so I'll wait until people like cjwatson and stgraber tell me that it's dirt easy and it all Just Works, and cargo-cult someone else's setup. :P
[00:47] <antarus> we are also avoiding this
[00:47] <antarus> ;)
[00:48] <antarus> mostly we want to do some form of secure network booting
[00:49] <antarus> my current plan (not yet staffed) is to write an android app that downloads a Goobuntu image to your phone over wifi, and you plug your phone into yoru workstation and the phone is responsible for image verification
[00:49] <antarus> which is slightly better than unencrypted tftp ;)
[00:49] <antarus> afaik though, I think you need to root your phone to be able to do it
[00:49] <antarus> which is not so nice ;(
[01:03] <devicenull> antarus: why not use ipxe and https
[01:03] <devicenull> iirc you can embed your own CA, so you could verify all the images that way
[01:05] <antarus> devicenull: not following how I get my secure verifiably copy of ipxe?
[01:05] <devicenull> dd it onto a usb stick ;)
[01:05] <devicenull> or burn it into the NIC
[01:07] <antarus> well thats the ticket innit ;)
[01:07] <devicenull> well at least you only need dd :)
[01:07] <antarus> teh support org wants to move away from a centralized inventory process
[01:07] <antarus> so it might be tricky ;)
[01:08] <antarus> thats why I nominally like the phone idea
[01:08] <antarus> everyeon already has one, we nominally trust the phone anyway
[01:10] <devicenull> I'm not following how having the phone implies no central inventory
[01:13] <antarus> ahh
[01:13] <antarus> well the former implies a supply chain problem
[01:13] <antarus> buying USb sticks
[01:13] <antarus> managing the versions of stuff on them
[01:14] <antarus> how do you get sticks to weird locations like the middle of Africa
[01:15] <antarus> an app on the phone may disallow you from using an older copy of the software
[01:15] <antarus> users already have phones (so no procurement issues)
[01:16] <antarus> I'm not familiar enough with putting new firmware on NICs to really evaluate that one..but it nominally has similar problems
[10:26] <stgraber> antarus: I haven't tried it myself yet but I know slangasek got UEFI netboot working over both IPv4 and IPv6 using grub and shim, so booting machines that have secureboot enabled.
[10:27] <stgraber> antarus: from what I remember the actual setup is trivial, the problems were with shim being buggy and needing fixing (which we've now done)
[10:28] <stgraber> antarus: on the dhcp server side all you have to do is point to shim's .efi binary rather than pxelinux.0 (you'll likely want to vendor/platform check to only have that done for EFI machines) and on the tftp server side you need to have a directory with shim.efi, grub.efi and any required config.
[10:29] <stgraber> I haven't tried this myself (well, I did but it was broken back then) but it's on my home todo list as I've got to rebuild my tftp server anyway (but I'm not home now so it'll have to wait until I'm back on the other continent)
[21:49] <antarus> stgraber: good to hear someone got it working ;)


[05:54] <heed> how do i upgrade 13.04 to 13.10
[05:55] <heed> last time i tried the automatic script/whuteva it crashed my whole system ('-')