[01:20]  * popey yawns
[06:02] <MartijnVdS> Bad weather coming: http://www.estofex.org/cgi-bin/polygon/showforecast.cgi?text=yes&fcstfile=2013072806_201307252133_2_extendedforecast.xml
[06:07] <popey> morning ☻
[06:08] <popey> met one of your co-workers today MartijnVdS
[06:08] <popey> very nice chap, didnt get his name though
[06:10] <MartijnVdS> popey: At Oscon?
[06:10] <popey> yes
[06:10] <popey> there was a booking.com stand
[06:10] <jussi> 500k overnight wasnt a bad effort.
[06:10] <MartijnVdS> popey: there's always a booking.com stand ;)
[06:10] <popey> heh
[06:10] <jussi> MartijnVdS: you work with Dennis? :D
[06:11] <MartijnVdS> jussi: Not anymore (if you mean kiwi)
[06:11] <MartijnVdS> jussi: he left just over a year ago
[06:11] <jussi> MartijnVdS: no, I meant Seveas. (or maybe Im remembering wrong)
[06:12] <MartijnVdS> jussi: ah, no, never worked in the same company as him.
[06:12] <MartijnVdS> jussi: IRCed with him a lot in the early days of Ubuntu though
[06:13] <jussi> MartijnVdS: but you work at booking.com?
[06:13] <MartijnVdS> jussi: no, I work at xs4all.nl
[06:13] <jussi> ok, thats why I was confuzzled :D
[06:13] <MartijnVdS> jussi: it's just that I noticed there's a booking.com stand at *every* open source event :)
[06:13] <jussi> hehe
[06:13] <jussi> (Dennis works at booking.com)
[06:14] <MartijnVdS> but, as my department is being axed, I might send my CV their way soon
[06:57] <MooDoo> morning all
[06:58] <MartijnVdS> \o MooDoo
[06:59] <MooDoo> :D
[06:59] <MooDoo> we the only ones up MartijnVdS ?
[06:59] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: popey was here earlier
[06:59] <MooDoo> he's in the states though
[06:59] <MartijnVdS> then I guess we're the only ones
[07:00] <MartijnVdS> PARTAY
[07:02] <MooDoo> lol
[07:02] <shauno> not sure I'd claim to be awake :/
[07:02] <MartijnVdS> shauno: it's FRIDAY, FRIDAY
[07:02] <MartijnVdS> etc.
[07:02] <MooDoo> well there i that seeing as i'm at work already, need moar coffee
[07:03]  * MartijnVdS has fresh black tea
[07:03] <shauno> 6am shifts are terrible.  I find for the first few hours, I'm barely compus mentus.  start waking up in time for breakfast, to discover I've already deleted most my email
[07:06] <MooDoo> hehe
[07:06] <diplo> Morning all
[07:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning - here's something to lighten your day: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jul/23/nigeria-match-fixing-life-ban-goals
[07:15] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: i might have to send them my bank details :D
[07:18] <MartijnVdS> one of the teams is called "Police Machine"?
[07:20] <MooDoo> ho ho
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: also, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23452097
[07:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ha.
[07:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's a joke. Surely.
[07:52] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[07:57] <MooDoo> morning bigcalm
[08:25] <mungbean> wakes up and checks http://ubuntu-edge.info/
[08:25] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:27] <mungbean> article on the guardian about the phone and the comments are like slashdot for 5yr olds
[08:27] <mungbean> "Ubuntu lost me with unity.  All Ubuntu of course.
[08:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> oops /me
[08:35]  * TheOpenSourcerer said that ^-^
[08:37] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: don't you use them anyway?
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes - this our 5th server
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ordered yesterday
[08:37] <MooDoo> cool
[08:41] <shauno> curious how you handle VMs on hetzner; buy IPs for each VM?
[08:42] <SuperMatt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoBhq9xZD4Qv <- sysadmin appreciation day
[08:42] <neuro> don't know if anyone's noticed, but kimsufi are doing dual core atoms with 2GB RAM, 500GB disk and 5TB transfer
[08:42] <neuro> for 3 quid a month
[08:42] <neuro> incl vat
[08:42] <MartijnVdS> but atoms
[08:42] <neuro> but 3 quid
[08:42] <MartijnVdS> but atoms
[08:42] <neuro> but 3 quid
[08:42] <MartijnVdS> yeah, but
[08:43] <neuro> a physical server
[08:43] <neuro> with an ipv4 address
[08:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: Yes - we use KVM and buy a /29 or /28 subnet depending on the performance of the host
[08:43] <neuro> and an ipv6 /64
[08:43] <neuro> and 100Mbps
[08:43] <neuro> for 3 quid a month
[08:45] <shauno> neuro: would be kinda nice if they included a cpu though ;)
[08:45] <MooDoo> my friends site - https://clients.5switch.com/cart.php not quite £3 and still atoms
[08:45] <MooDoo> £15 is the cheapest
[08:45] <neuro> haha
[08:45] <neuro> they're kimsufi/ovh boxes
[08:45] <neuro> he's reselling them
[08:46] <MooDoo> ah
[08:46] <neuro> sorry ;)
[08:46] <MooDoo> neuro: nothing to say sorry for
[08:47] <neuro> blimey, whitburn
[08:47] <MooDoo> ?
[08:47] <neuro> the company
[08:47] <MooDoo> ah right
[08:48] <neuro> your friend
[08:48] <neuro> is in whitburn
[08:48] <MooDoo> yeah
[08:49] <neuro> you should tell him he has the wrong company number in his website footer ;)
[08:52] <MooDoo> neuro: what's up with it, a seach on companies house shows the correct details or am i missing something?
[08:53] <neuro> unless your mate is called Robert and owns a company in Banchory called "West End Properties (Aberdeen) Limited", it's wrong ;)
[08:53] <MooDoo> http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo
[08:53] <neuro> huh, it's changed
[08:54] <neuro> it's literally just now changed
[08:54] <neuro> oh, no
[08:54] <neuro> it hasn't
[08:54] <neuro> i see where i saw it
[08:54] <neuro> http://5switch.com/about.php
[08:54] <neuro> compare the one under "The Legal Stuff" with the one in the site footer
[08:54] <neuro> and i don't use companies house
[08:54] <MooDoo> yes i get ya, thanks chaps
[08:54] <neuro> awful awful interface
[08:54] <neuro> duedil ftw
[08:55] <MooDoo> not my website :p
[08:56] <neuro> ?
[08:56] <mungbean> not my circus, not my monkey
[08:56] <MooDoo> sorry thought you were on about my mates website :d
[08:56] <neuro> i meant companies house, ya daftie! :)
[08:56] <mungbean> Nie mój cyrk, nie moje małpy
[08:57] <neuro> ではない私のサーカスではなく、私の猿。
[08:57] <neuro> Non circo, non simia esse.
[08:57] <MooDoo> i wish people would talk proper like what I does
[08:58] <neuro> Nid yw fy syrcas, nid yw fy mwnci.
[08:58] <neuro> i love the welsh word for monkey
[08:58] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy One Voice Day! :-D
[08:58] <mungbean> its just english with heavy welsh accent
[08:58] <neuro> lol
[08:58] <MooDoo> JamesTait: morning and shush neuro is speaking ;)
[08:58] <neuro> wat?
[08:59] <MooDoo> neuro: it's one voice day i was being silly
[08:59] <shauno> JamesTait: it's http://sysadminday.com and you picked One Voice day?  sheesh :p
[08:59] <JamesTait> MooDoo, it looks more like he sat on his keyboard. ;)
[09:00] <neuro> why do i always forget sysadmin day
[09:00] <shauno> blame the firewall.  it's always the firewall
[09:00] <mungbean> blame the previous guy
[09:00] <MooDoo> shauno: i've just made a mental note to check BOFH excuse of the day as it can't be the firewall
[09:00] <neuro> good shout
[09:01] <neuro> i can't really blame the previous guy
[09:01] <neuro> the previous guy at my current job snuffed it :(
[09:01] <JamesTait> I thought sysadmin day was in September. :-/
[09:01] <mungbean> neuro: was he planning to?
[09:01] <neuro> don't think so, died of a heart attack
[09:01] <neuro> JamesTait: you're thinking of international talk like a pirate day
[09:01] <mungbean> i don't know if it's wrong but i'd kind of milk the fact there was no handover
[09:02] <mungbean> people wouldn't argue either
[09:02] <neuro> it *is* wrong, and don't get me started on that :)
[09:02] <mungbean> but is it true?
[09:02] <neuro> well duh
[09:02] <neuro> unless we whip out a ouija board
[09:02] <shauno> I had an employer do that.  it sounds disgusting, but it's quite handy to have a reference that cannot be questioned
[09:02] <mungbean> well he might have done read-only fridays like me
[09:03] <neuro> wait, what?
[09:03] <mungbean> and done documentation , loads of it
[09:03] <neuro> "read-only fridays"?
[09:03] <mungbean> yeah, no changes to system after 2pm on friday
[09:03] <neuro> that's a pretty common thing
[09:03] <mungbean> but you're in pub at 12pm on friday, because its friday
[09:03] <neuro> no planned operational changes on fridays, because no-one wants to get called out on a saturday
[09:03] <mungbean> so use the r/o flag to write documentation
[09:04] <neuro> something i'm trying to instill here
[09:04] <mungbean> this place aint good enough for me
[09:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Don't you just love it when a customer emails you and says please can you send me a big invoice :-D
[09:04] <mungbean> too many mkneys
[09:04] <neuro> today i'm working on web stats code that i'll roll out next week
[09:05] <neuro> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, i've had to refer customers to finance teams before
[09:05] <neuro> on the phone, too
[09:05] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: yes i had one of those myself the other day "I'm not paying you enough, let me pay you more"
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I've had those as well :)
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: yeah, that was the basic gist of it
[09:05] <MooDoo> albeit this was for a photo shoot lol
[09:05] <neuro> "sorry, i'd love to action your request, but could you call our finance team first on 0845 ..."
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> ugh.. office-speak ;)
[09:06] <neuro> "yes, I understand that you are desperate to get this done, but could you please call our finance team on 0845 ..."
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> verbing weird nouns
[09:06] <mungbean> americanisms
[09:06] <MooDoo> I so need to start doing consulting and remove support lol
[09:06] <MooDoo> s/remote
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: they do it in Dutch here as well.. *shudder*
[09:07] <mungbean> native dutch?
[09:07] <neuro> "no, i'm not trying to be obstructive, but ... OK, yes, I am being obstructive, because there's a note on your account here which says can you please call our finance team on 0845 ..."
[09:07] <neuro> they got the message eventually
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: yeah, they put in weird management-speak Dutch words.. or English ones
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: "English-ish" more like
[09:07] <neuro> my two pet hates are ones i can barely say
[09:07] <neuro> "going forward"
[09:07] <mungbean> ferrets and snakes?
[09:07] <neuro> "take this offline"
[09:08] <neuro> boils my blood
[09:08] <neuro> really does
[09:08] <mungbean> have you done ITIL?
[09:08] <neuro> hell no
[09:08] <mungbean> its complete garbage
[09:08] <neuro> yup
[09:08] <mungbean> the words don't even mean what they're supposed to
[09:08] <neuro> it's like getting certification for stuff
[09:08] <mungbean> i pulled them up on it  and they said, just learn it for the exam
[09:08] <mungbean> "its the ITIL way"
[09:08] <neuro> when you think about it, it's pointless
[09:08] <mungbean> but its wrong
[09:09] <mungbean> i took a vmware VCP course
[09:09] <mungbean> i have an exam voucher
[09:09] <mungbean> didn't use it because was too busy ACTUALLY DOING THE REAL WORK
[09:09] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: i'm wanting to that course, it's a week :D
[09:09] <Linux-guy> Hello guys
[09:09] <neuro> mungbean: haha
[09:09] <MooDoo> sorry mungbean :)
[09:09] <mungbean> in interview..why didnt you do the exam?
[09:10] <mungbean> upper managers wouldn't understand
[09:10] <mungbean> the course is an enabler, not an end in itself
[09:10]  * mungbean calms down
[09:10] <neuro> :)
[09:10] <neuro> have a cuppa
[09:11] <mungbean> forgot my breakfast juice!
[09:11] <MooDoo> never mind, not be too long before you can have weekend juice
[09:11]  * neuro has already had some copella cloudy apple juice
[09:11] <neuro> om nom
[09:12] <mungbean> 50-50 OJ+water
[09:13] <mungbean> urbandictionary definition of sky: 1) go outside
[09:13] <mungbean> -look up
[09:13] <mungbean> -viola
[09:13] <mungbean> viola??? run!!!!
[09:14] <neuro> INVASION OF THE TINY VIOLINS!
[09:14] <MooDoo> mungbean: is this your crazy friday hour?
[09:14] <mungbean> aren't violas big like cellos?
[09:14] <mungbean> MooDoo: maybe, is that in my schedule?
[09:14] <MooDoo> mungbean: you tell me, 10 - 11 go crazy ?
[09:15] <mungbean> 9-10 on friday  i usually check emails and eat breakfast and generally warm up to the fun of the day
[09:15] <mungbean> sometimes it spills over
[09:15] <mungbean> all my workmates have all left so the company irc is dead now
[09:15] <mungbean> used to be a thriving hotbed of bitterness and bile against project managers
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: we have one of those, but the bitterness and bile is mostly against *all* managers
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: project managers are the least bad here ;)
[09:33] <mgdm> Violas are slightly larger than violins
[09:34] <mungbean> PMs have elevated status here
[09:35] <mungbean> they are clueless but are used for things that techies should be doing. hence every project fails
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> heh, sounds familiar
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> also, techies only get involved in projects when they're too invested in them to fail
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> so when we say "That's impossible" we have to hack some way around it anyway
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> (or "that's hard, it'll take 6 months" "you have 2")
[09:46] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: the reply to that is, you paying overtime?
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: no, the reply is "OK", and still take 5 months ;)
[09:47] <mgdm> overtime is dangerous
[09:47] <mungbean> they had a party last night for all the people involved in a project
[09:47] <mgdm> if you make it known that you will do it, you can end up doing loads of it
[09:47] <mungbean> classic IT crowd scene.
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: and sticking to the schedule we told them about, instead of the one they forced on us
[09:47] <mungbean> guess who did a large chuink and wasn't invited
[09:48] <MooDoo> mungbean: they don't like you :p
[09:48] <mungbean> guess who turns up instead? suits, starbucks dwellers and chancers
[09:48] <mungbean> i don't exist
[09:48] <MooDoo> mungbean: until something breaks
[09:48] <mungbean> guess who actually did real work
[09:48] <mungbean> not any more
[09:48] <mungbean> i moved to different dept
[09:48] <mungbean> screw them
[09:49] <mungbean> :D
[09:49] <mungbean> anyone ever seen an oracle/sun 7410 cluster?
[09:49] <mungbean> the thing panics and reboots upon any actions perform in the vicinity of it
[09:50] <mungbean> replace a failed disk, panic reboot,
[09:50] <mungbean> change the email addresses in the web ui, reboot
[10:04] <diplo> Sounds a fun more mungbean :/
[10:06] <diplo> morning*
[10:06] <neuro> it is, isn't it :(
[10:07] <neuro> roll on beer o clock
[10:07] <mungbean> 'twas yesterday, i am reading firmware changelogs today :)
[10:07] <mungbean> ctrl-F panic WHOAH
[10:07] <shauno> odd question .. any suggestions for online resources to test an applicant's written english?
[10:07] <mungbean> shauno: i've seen them before
[10:07] <MooDoo> shauno: http://www.bbsi.co.uk/online_english_language_test
[10:07] <mungbean> maybe in the guise of typing tests
[10:08] <davmor2_> neuro: you know somewhere in the world it's already beer o'clock you should celebrate this fact with say a beer
[10:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Did someone just say beer ;-)
[10:08] <mgdm> if there was a yardarm nearby I'm sure the sun would be over it
[10:09] <neuro> TheOpenSourcerer: http://isitbeeroclock.com/
[10:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's rather an old saying mgdm bet most of the "youngsters" in here don't know what you mean.
[10:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks neuro
[10:09] <mgdm> Hehe
[10:10] <mgdm> there *is* a tall ship about half a mile down the river, thinking about it
[10:11] <jussi> tallships <3
[10:11] <brobostigon> loadsa beer tmrw, birthday boy, :)
[10:12] <brobostigon> 31 i will be, getting old.
[10:13] <MooDoo> brobostigon: old at 31 eh
[10:13] <brobostigon> MooDoo: in another ten years, i might worry.
[10:13] <shauno> MooDoo: disappointing, I got 77% on that :(
[10:14] <MooDoo> shauno: you're japanese right
[10:14] <shauno> I'm english :(
[10:14] <neuro> ahhhhhhhh domo
[10:15] <MooDoo> shauno: i was kidding.
[10:15] <MooDoo> domo arigato gozaimaz
[10:15] <neuro> Anata no nenrei wa kankei arimasen. Anata no chie ga jūyōna nodesu.
[10:16] <MooDoo> Doitashimashite
[10:17] <neuro> Appuru wa jūsu!
[10:17] <neuro> could be worse
[10:17] <neuro> could be welsh
[10:17] <MooDoo> lol
[10:18] <neuro> llcchllhclhclhchchchlhllclhhclhclhlhlchlhhchchclchlhlhchclch isn't it
[10:18] <mgdm> boyo
[10:18] <neuro> i love the bill bailey bit about the dutch and welsh fascination with toasties
[10:19] <neuro> dutch: we've got ham toasties ... and we've got cheese toasties
[10:19] <neuro> maybe we go a bit crazy and make ham and cheese toasties
[10:19] <neuro> welsh: ham *AND* cheese?
[10:19] <mgdm> that's brilliant!
[10:20] <neuro> it's flat, it just slides right in
[10:20] <jussi> welsh rarebit... do they even actually come from Wales?
[10:21] <neuro> Made in China
[10:22] <neuro> apparently, it's possibly a joke
[10:22] <neuro> dates from the 1700s
[10:22] <neuro> it may have referred to how rabbit was the poor Englishman's meat
[10:23] <neuro> but in Wales it was cheese, as they were so poor
[10:23] <neuro> or crap at hunting rabbits
[10:32] <shauno> I've always wondered about these 'traditional' dishes, and just how traditional they really are
[10:32] <neuro> haggis is very traditional
[10:32] <shauno> I mean, I can't imagine ireland without potatos, or italy without tomatos; but both came from the americas
[10:33] <neuro> potatoes?
[10:33] <neuro> what, just potatoes? :)
[10:33] <neuro> i think of colcannon :)
[10:34] <shauno> I guess it doesn't stick in the mind because they never had a cabbage famine
[10:35] <neuro> hehe
[10:35] <neuro> maybe they did and no-one noticed because of the potatoes
[10:37] <shauno> they're just particular ones that strike me as very dominant across europe, but non-native
[10:38] <neuro> a lot of places are like that
[10:39] <neuro> we (scots) owe a lot of our cuisine from french influences
[10:40] <shauno> of course, the famous barre de chocolat frits  ;)
[10:40] <neuro> *yawn* :)
[10:40] <neuro> le tourist twaddle :)
[10:49] <mgdm> neuro: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-23464418
[10:50] <neuro> lol
[10:50] <bigcalm> The networking stuff came back to me to deal with. Given up on the seperate subnet. VPN now works (I think). My brain is being turned to mush with all of this new information
[10:51] <Linux-guy> Hello
[10:52] <Linux-guy> Why is it always quite in here
[10:54] <Linux-guy> Can some Linux commands work on mac cuz mac is Unix
[10:54] <mgdm> pretty much
[10:59] <SuperMatt> it's not always quite in here
[11:00] <SuperMatt> I guess it's lunch time so everyone is here is picking food out of their neck beards
[11:00] <SuperMatt> I jest, of course
[11:00] <marxjohnson> mmm crunchy
[11:01] <marxjohnson> got a new keyboard, I'm so happy. I've been using a tesco value £1.99 special with dodgy spacebar and it's been driving me up the wall. I'm just typing a long message now for the joy of it. lalala
[11:02] <SuperMatt> I never use anything but cherry keyboards
[11:02] <marxjohnson> I had a cherry keyboard but it went nuts and decided that when i pressed space i was also pressing #, and when I pressed / I was also pressing ;
[11:02] <marxjohnson> which makes coding somewhat tricky
[11:02] <SuperMatt> did you try removing the crumbs from between the keys?
[11:02] <MartijnVdS> no DAS KEYBOARD for you then?
[11:03] <marxjohnson> I've got a Das Keyboard at work
[11:03] <MartijnVdS> http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate/
[11:03] <SuperMatt> I would be quite tempted by a daskeyboard
[11:03] <marxjohnson> I've the got the brown switch version so as not to piss of my colleages :p
[11:03] <MartijnVdS> marxjohnson: your co-workers must hate you, or have good headphones
[11:04] <SuperMatt> though not at those prices
[11:04] <marxjohnson> The one that broke had white switches, which aren't as nice
[11:05] <marxjohnson> Someone kindly freecycled me an ancient mitsumi keyboard which has quite a siliar feel to the brown cherrys
[11:05] <marxjohnson> similar*
[11:05] <marxjohnson> my Das was a christmas present, I wasnt going to spend that much of my own money either
[11:06] <SuperMatt> the problem with buy such an expensive keyboard is that I would want two of them, one for home and one for work
[11:07] <marxjohnson> haha yeah I had that dilemma
[11:07] <SuperMatt> I've already got 2xleft handed mice
[11:07] <SuperMatt> http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-mice/razer-deathadder-left-hand-edition
[11:07] <SuperMatt> the best thing about having left handed mice? watching everyone FLAIL when using my pc
[11:07] <SuperMatt> bwa ha ha ha
[11:11] <neuro> holy mother of distant thunder ...
[11:11] <SuperMatt> what?
[11:11] <neuro> it's thundery here
[11:11] <SuperMatt> oh right
[11:11] <neuro> lol
[11:11] <SuperMatt> that makes sense
[11:11] <SuperMatt> carry on
[11:11] <neuro> see, this is why i like macs
[11:12] <neuro> single finger tap/click = do stuff
[11:12] <neuro> double finger tap/click = context
[11:12] <SuperMatt> are you talking touchpad?
[11:12] <neuro> yeah
[11:12] <SuperMatt> I don't use touchpads much
[11:12] <SuperMatt> only on my laptop
[11:12] <SuperMatt> when I'm in bed
[11:12] <neuro> you can do the same with the mighty mouse too iirc
[11:12] <neuro> argh
[11:12] <SuperMatt> I have desktops for everything else
[11:12] <neuro> not mighty mouse, the magic mouse
[11:12]  * neuro points at his full-size apple usb keyb + magic trackpad ;)
[11:13] <neuro> i haven't used a mouse on this machine for ages
[11:13] <shauno> I can barely right-click with the mighty mouse lol .. what a fail that was
[11:13] <neuro> tho i do have one plugged in just in case
[11:13] <mgdm> neuro: I have the same setup
[11:14] <mgdm> I have a mouse down the back somewhere though so that when IT need to do things they can :)
[11:14] <neuro> apple keyboards are epic
[11:14] <mgdm> I don't get on with the wee bluetooth one
[11:14] <neuro> definitely my favourite keyboards now, followed closely by sun type 5 keybs
[11:14] <neuro> no?
[11:14] <mgdm> Well, generally when I use one it's 'cos I'm borrowing a machine
[11:14] <mgdm> and I've just switched off the full-size one
[11:15] <neuro> i have one on my mac mini
[11:15] <neuro> my TV mac
[11:15] <mgdm> and the keys are narrower, so I type utter nonsense for a while until I get used to it
[11:15] <neuro> narrower than what?
[11:15] <neuro> the full size keyb?
[11:15] <mgdm> yeah
[11:16] <neuro> i thought everything was the same other than the bottom row
[11:16] <SuperMatt> I wouldn't mind an apple keyboard, except the layout drives me potty
[11:16] <mgdm> I think it's different, but not by much
[11:16] <neuro> hmm
[11:16] <neuro> SuperMatt: yeah, me too
[11:16] <mgdm> also ctrl is in the wrong place, and I'm the only person in here who remaps caps lock to be another ctrl
[11:17] <neuro> i always do a soft remap to put \ and # in the right places
[11:17] <neuro> confuses people who are used to mac keybs, but i touch type, so i need consistency :)
[11:17] <MartijnVdS> neuro: between enter and backspace, and shift+3?
[11:17] <SuperMatt> caps lock would do well to be replaced with something else, though I'm not sure about ctrl
[11:17] <shauno> I've used them so long the PC keyboard drives me nuts :/
[11:17] <mgdm> For a while I ran Ubuntu on my THinkpad with a Mac keyboard attached
[11:17] <mgdm> that was 'fun'
[11:17] <neuro> see, i've always been a bottom-right-hand ctrl person
[11:17] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Chromebooks have a "Search" button where capslock should be
[11:18] <SuperMatt> yarb, but not everything uses a search key these days
[11:18] <neuro> MartijnVdS: begone with your odd keyboards
[11:18] <SuperMatt> I wonder what else it could be
[11:18] <neuro> uk english layout ftw
[11:18] <shauno> I've switched away from the UK layout too.  it's silly.
[11:18] <SuperMatt> you know, I think it'd be fun to replace capslock with an application switcher
[11:19] <neuro> SuperMatt: you're questioning google, a company built around a search engine, why they'd put a search key on their keyboard? :)
[11:19] <neuro> shauno: how so?
[11:19] <SuperMatt> oh, I'm not questioning them, I just don't think it's needed on a normal keyboard
[11:19] <neuro> :)
[11:19] <SuperMatt> because not ever app I run on my desktop requires a search
[11:19] <neuro> i don't think chromebooks qualify as "normal"
[11:20] <SuperMatt> no, they dont
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: That's why I disabled Unity's menu search thing (HUD?), and never use the "Dash", only Alt+F2
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> I know what I'm looking for dammit
[11:20] <neuro> this is why ubuntu desktop frustrates me so much
[11:20] <SuperMatt> ah, now there's an idea
[11:21] <neuro> i shouldn't have to feel like i have to disable a core UI component to make the thing feel "useful"
[11:21] <SuperMatt> replace capslock with win+a, so it only allows me to search applications
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: replace capslock with shutdown
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> you'll learn not to touch it
[11:21] <neuro> YOU'LL NEVER TAKE CAPS LOCK FROM MEEEEE!
[11:21] <SuperMatt> hahaha
[11:22] <SuperMatt> chromebook go around capslock by requiring you to press both shifts
[11:22] <MartijnVdS> neuro: you'll still have shift
[11:22] <neuro> hehe, it would turn into the BREAK key from the BBC Micro
[11:22] <SuperMatt> which I think is nice
[11:22] <neuro> the amount of times i whacked that key was ridiculous
[11:22] <shauno> neuro: on the mac, # is shift-3 and £ is alt-3.  I use the 'international english' layout so they're reversed
[11:22] <neuro> i even managed the unrecoverable ctrl+break a few times
[11:22] <shauno> that way I can let alt be meta in a terminal, and lose the £ key rather than #
[11:23] <neuro> shauno: on your mac, maybe
[11:23] <SuperMatt> how on earth did you press ctrl break?
[11:23] <neuro> but yeah, i grok that
[11:23] <neuro> SuperMatt: just keyboard mashing
[11:23] <SuperMatt> my fingers are just never over there
[11:23] <shauno> not being in the UK anymore, the £ key is kinda useless, yaknow
[11:23] <neuro> i have always been a fast typist, even when in high school, but sometimes i just went into mash mode
[11:23] <neuro> shauno: :)
[11:24] <neuro> here, have a few: ££££££££
[11:24] <neuro> stick em in your clipboard
[11:24] <neuro> just don't lose them
[11:24] <SuperMatt> shauno: sure, but there's no need to take it out on poor british users trying to press £ on a mac keyboard
[11:24] <neuro> SuperMatt: i press shift+3 to get a £ sign
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> I press shift+altgr+4
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> £
[11:24] <SuperMatt> D:
[11:24] <SuperMatt> this is all wrong
[11:24] <neuro> which sounds mental, but since it's not your currency, that's fair enough
[11:24] <SuperMatt> just gimme a standard uk layout!
[11:25]  * neuro *has* a standard uk layout :)
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> neuro: but € is AltGr+5 and $ is Shift+3
[11:25] <bigcalm> Eugh
[11:25] <shauno> keyboards would be so much more simple if you'd just give up and join the euro
[11:25] <neuro> MartijnVdS: given the age of £ and $ vs € ...
[11:25] <neuro> euro? NEVER
[11:25] <shauno> g'wan!
[11:25]  * neuro likes having interesting banknotes issued by three different banks
[11:25] <bigcalm> neuro: what currency will you adopt once you leave the UK? ;)
[11:25] <neuro> plus whatever tat the BoE prints off
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> If Scotland becomes independent, they should join the Euro
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> just out of spite
[11:26] <shauno> that half the UK doesn't accept :p
[11:26] <neuro> bigcalm: at the moment, the plan is to run with sterling
[11:26] <neuro> and operate a Sterling Zone, akin to the Eurozone
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> neuro: join the euro side
[11:26] <neuro> nope
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> we have cookies
[11:26] <neuro> no, you don't
[11:26] <shauno> they have special cookies
[11:27] <neuro> they have stroopwafel, which i can get from Lidl's, so rack off!
[11:27] <neuro> £p is only 42 yrs old, we haven't had time to settle in
[11:27] <MartijnVdS> those aren't proper stroopwafels
[11:27] <neuro> from hundreds of years of £sd
[11:28] <neuro> buggered if i'll let our country go €c
[11:28] <neuro> (he said as though he had a say in it)
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> neuro: but it's so easy to not have to bother changing money when traveling
[11:28] <bigcalm> :)
[11:28] <neuro> wut?
[11:28] <neuro> who needs to change money?
[11:28] <shauno> agreed.  it feels so old-fashioned having to swap sacks of coins when I go to the UK :/
[11:28] <neuro> credit card + ATM
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> neuro: yes, then you end up with bags of small change
[11:29] <shauno> I atleast managed to pick up one of those oyster gizmos so I can get to the hotel before I have to worry about what currency's in which pocket
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> where "small" is relative, because 2p coins are the size of hubcaps
[11:29] <neuro> i usually leave my change behind
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> or is that 1p?
[11:29] <neuro> not telling
[11:30] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: there's a shop here that sells the same type i got last time I was in AMS. So neeeeeeh. :P
[11:30] <shauno> you don't have a policeman on your island?
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: the best are freshly made  :)
[11:30] <neuro> shauno: i just grab some euros when i get through arrivals at whatever airport i'm in
[11:30] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: 2p coins weigh twice what 1p do (because you can weigh a bag of mixed 1p and 2p coins to work out how much it is)
[11:30] <neuro> when i was bouncing over to bcn a lot, the rate off the airport ATMs was pretty good
[11:30] <shauno> neuro: right, and then you have to figure out how to get a metro ticket with a €50  lol
[11:31] <neuro> i use these things called "taxis"
[11:31] <neuro> but then again, i was on expenses, so ...
[11:31] <shauno> I avoid that .. they tend to see me coming, and want the whole €50 :/
[11:32] <neuro> i only ever had one problem like that with a bcn cab driver
[11:32] <neuro> all i had was a €50
[11:32] <shauno> far too many places seem to want to take me on the magical mystery tour
[11:32] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: so the 2p coins are the hubcaps ;)
[11:32] <neuro> and while i was saying ATM, ATM, which was literally just round the corner, he drove off from my destination, to a petrol station nearby so that I could buy something to make change
[11:32] <neuro> muppet
[11:32] <neuro> bought a 2l bottle of coke with a €50 note :P
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> neuro: that's on the expensive side though
[11:33] <neuro> hmmm?
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> 2l of coke for €50
[11:33] <neuro> watch out, everyone, we've got a comedian over here!
[11:34] <shauno> hungary was a blast from the past as far as having to deal with funnymoney went :/
[11:34] <shauno> luckily everywhere I need to go on a regular basis is on the euro now
[11:35] <neuro> apparently the hungarians may be replacing the forint with the euro
[11:35] <MartijnVdS> neuro: in 2024 or something
[11:35] <MartijnVdS> Latvia is first, I think
[11:35] <shauno> they've been working on it for years.  same as the czechs.  but they have to get their ducks in a row first
[11:35] <neuro> aye
[11:35] <neuro> see, all this hassle
[11:35] <MartijnVdS> shauno: get rid of corruption, mostly
[11:36] <neuro> we can just stick with the pound :)
[11:36] <MartijnVdS> neuro: but you've been pre-approved! ;)
[11:36] <shauno> MartijnVdS: nah, that's not a requirement.  Just look at Italy ;)
[11:36] <MartijnVdS> shauno: true, and Greece
[11:37] <shauno> czceh's another one where I end up doing finger math to figure out if I'm being taken for a ride
[11:37] <shauno> er, czech
[11:37] <neuro> much prefer our own banknotes
[11:37] <neuro> they're brilliant
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> shauno: at a UDS in Prague, we had a €20 bottle (1l) of water
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> in the hotel reoom
[11:38] <shauno> that sounds like most minibars
[11:38] <shauno> it's just more difficult to tell when they're using imaginary numbers
[11:38] <neuro> http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/banknote_denominations.php
[11:39] <neuro> http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/media/scottish_banknotes_poster_2009.pdf
[11:39] <^2fC> lo
[11:39] <neuro> it's server boy :)
[11:39] <HoT|2fC^> :}
[11:39] <shauno> I Think I've still got some scottish notes around here somewhere.  they're a nuisance trying to get changed
[11:40] <^2fC> up and running !
[11:40] <neuro> woot
[11:40] <^2fC> <-- Ubuntu 13.04.2 LTS !
[11:40] <^2fC> ;)
[11:40] <neuro> 12.04, no?
[11:40] <^2fC> sorry 12.04.2
[11:40] <^2fC> :p
[11:40] <neuro> :)
[11:41] <neuro> now as long as it has power and ethernet, you can stick it in a corner and forget about it
[11:41] <^2fC> Indeed :)
[11:42] <^2fC> I will SSH from my iPhone? :o
[11:42] <^2fC> How do I make a static IP :\
[11:42] <neuro> you'll need to configure it in /etc/network/interfaces
[11:42] <^2fC> Will it be ok on overnight ?
[11:42] <neuro> it's pretty straightforward to do, just read up on it first
[11:43] <neuro> will it be ok overnight? :)
[11:43] <neuro> these things are built to be on for years
[11:43] <^2fC> yeah
[11:43] <^2fC> left on
[11:43] <neuro> just make sure it is well ventilated
[11:43] <^2fC> yeah true lol :D
[11:43] <neuro> the easier way actually
[11:43] <neuro> to set static ip
[11:43] <neuro> do it in your router
[11:43] <^2fC> ah ok ok
[11:43] <neuro> you can get the ethernet interface's MAC address from the 'ifconfig' command
[11:43] <^2fC> yup
[11:44] <davmor2> neuro: is the Scottish/English pound exchange rate still the same?
[11:44] <neuro> then most routers have an option to set a statically assigned LAN IP using the MAC
[11:44] <^2fC> indeed yes
[11:44] <^2fC> I will go do that now :o
[11:44] <neuro> davmor2: all scottish and NI banknotes are pound sterling
[11:44] <^2fC> eth0 or lo ?
[11:44] <shauno> davmor2: not always, oddly enough.  despite what they'll tell you otherwise
[11:44] <neuro> eth0
[11:44] <^2fC> ok ok
[11:44] <^2fC> ty
[11:45] <neuro> every scottish banknote is backed by the corresponding value in the Bank of England
[11:45] <shauno> but it's not unknown to be charged a different exchange rate
[11:45] <neuro> so £1 here = £1 everywhere else in the UK
[11:45] <neuro> "exchange rate" what are you talking about?
[11:45] <neuro> :)
[11:46] <shauno> well, the rate offered when you exchange them
[11:46] <neuro> i don't understand
[11:46] <^2fC> neuro: I done that now Address Reservation :o
[11:46] <neuro> ^2fC: means you don't have to futz too hard with the server :)
[11:46] <^2fC> :o
[11:46] <davmor2> neuro: It's a joke from either Bill Bailey or Michael MacIntyre
[11:47] <neuro> ah, i see
[11:47] <neuro> that Bill Bailey ... *shakes fist*
[11:47] <neuro> :)
[11:47] <neuro> the fun thing is
[11:47] <shauno> it's actually something that crops up - eg, http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/business-consumer/travellers-scottish-bank-notes-better-1863134
[11:47] <neuro> scottish banknotes aren't legal tender in England or Wales
[11:47] <neuro> but
[11:47] <neuro> no banknotes are legal tender in Scotland
[11:47] <shauno> I've also seen the reverse, where scottish notes were charged a higher rate
[11:48] <^2fC> neuro: can I install a dedicated game server away from home to ?
[11:48] <^2fC> say a Source one from Steam.
[11:48] <^2fC> CS:S or something CS:GO
[11:48] <neuro> i don't know, can you/
[11:48] <neuro> ?
[11:48] <^2fC> :o
[11:48] <^2fC> I don't know its all CommandLine now Steam servers.
[11:49] <neuro> like i said, last time i installed a game server was ET
[11:49] <^2fC> So I should guess so :)
[11:49] <^2fC> yeah ET haha
[11:49] <^2fC> Sorry I forgot..
[11:49] <neuro> :)
[11:49] <^2fC> Well I am off to work!
[11:49] <MooDoo> i'm running a minecraft server lol
[11:49] <neuro> yeah but minecraft people are "special" ;)
[11:49] <^2fC> Speak soon thanks ever so much for your help neuro, AlanBell, MartijnVdS, mungbean, MooDoo, popey, all you guys!
[11:49] <^2fC> Ubuntu rocks!
[11:49] <^2fC> Peace.
[11:49] <MooDoo> neuro: can't deny that :D
[11:49] <neuro> you're welcome dude
[11:49] <^2fC> :>
[11:49]  * ^2fC runs off..
[11:49] <davmor2> neuro: I think it ran along the line of, I was in Scotland and got some of their fivers and went to pay for something and...........then went into it must be the exchange rate maybe a Scottish Pound is different to and English one....No it's a POUND!!!
[11:50] <mgdm> That was Michael McIntyre
[11:50] <MooDoo> oh hello davmor2 I blatently ignored you ;)
[11:50] <mgdm> which I'm surprised I know, given I don't like his stuff much
[11:51] <davmor2> MooDoo: nothing new there dude ;) how am ya?
[11:51] <neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z3OKE_Os1M (contains swears)
[11:51] <MooDoo> davmor2: cracking lad :) ready for the weekend?
[11:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nom, Just had a Bombay Bad Boy Pot Noodle for my lunch. Kids gave it me as a going away gift.
[11:52] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: I love them, not hot enough though :) lol
[11:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Exactly. I added some extra chilli sauce
[11:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm off to the IoW tomorrow. Going to this: http://www.isleofwightchillifiesta.co.uk/
[11:53] <davmor2> neuro: that'll be the one  :)
[11:53] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: yes you're doing the pizza thing right?
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: "On second thought, let's not go to the IoW. 'tis a chilli place."
[11:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Possibly yes.
[11:54] <neuro> he nails it
[11:54] <neuro> it's brilliant
[11:54] <neuro> especially the first bit about the glasgow airport thing
[11:54] <neuro> why oh why al qaeda thought glasgow airport would be a good target i don't know
[11:54] <davmor2> neuro: told you it was one or the other of those comedians they are the ones we tend to watch the most :)
[11:54] <neuro> :)
[11:55] <neuro> davmor2: you should watch some kevin bridges, he is genius
[11:55] <davmor2> neuro: yeah got his dvd too
[11:55] <mgdm> neuro: did you ever see him on Would I Lie To You?
[11:55] <neuro> no :(
[11:56] <neuro> "i seen a sign that said 'have you seen this man?' I phoned up and said '... naw'. I might be a few things but i'm no a grass" :)
[11:56] <mgdm> neuro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkXxmMUIx8k
[11:57] <davmor2> neuro: I think it was frankie Boyle on mock the week who said what were al qaeda thinking, they sent a burning man into glasgow airport, for a bunch of scots who were off to malaga to get burnt was it just irony?
[11:59] <shauno> the truth's probably a lot more boring.  they were working in paisley.  they weren't singling out glasgow airport.  simply 'the airport'.
[12:00] <zleap> any idea how to run clamav to scan a flash disk
[12:00] <zleap> clamav isn't working from command line, can't fimd a man page either
[12:05] <MooDoo> can't you just run sudo clamscan -r /folderlocation?
[12:21] <davmor2> zleap: if you are on a desktop just install clamtk and run it from the gui :)
[12:26] <mungbean> i saw somebody on secret eaters yesterday who i recognise :S
[12:26] <^2fC-iPhone> Ah nice on my iPhone :o
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: secret-eaters?
[12:38] <diddledan> mungbean: someone you know or just know of?
[12:46] <Myrtti> AlanBell: http://www.buzzfeed.com/peggy/positively-dreamy-chicken-coops
[12:47] <SuperMatt> 4
[12:47] <SuperMatt> oop
[12:49] <mungbean> someone i recognise from the train
[12:49] <mungbean> used to take my train to work
[13:31] <bigcalm> Anybody know how long VPN rules take to take effect on a Rackspace firewall?
[13:36] <bigcalm> Oh, it's working \o/
[13:40] <SuperMatt> so about 5 minutes then?
[13:40] <bigcalm> SuperMatt: or it was instant but I didn't work out how to test it until just now
[13:43] <SuperMatt> ah right
[13:43] <SuperMatt> it's always good to know when something is instant
[13:43] <SuperMatt> I hate waiting for stuff
[13:43] <SuperMatt> this is IT dammit!
[13:44] <bigcalm> :)
[13:44] <bigcalm> I think I should let my parents know that it's sysadmin day
[13:47] <SuperMatt> do you sysadmin for them a lot?
[13:53] <mungbean> i know its useless internet points but when your link hits the top of a subreddit and the upvotes start flying up, its quite fun
[13:55] <SuperMatt> which is this?
[13:56] <mungbean> huh?
[13:56] <SuperMatt> which post on which subreddit?
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: /r/vxjunkies
[13:57] <SuperMatt> ...
[13:57] <SuperMatt> you're not mungbean
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: still, you should read there :)
[13:57] <mungbean> its not a default sub so it won't be on THE front page
[13:58] <mungbean> doesn't matter *which* story today, but its generally fun
[13:58] <mungbean> although self.post != link karma (more useless internet points)
[13:58] <SuperMatt> aww man]
[13:58] <SuperMatt> I had no idea
[13:59] <mungbean> you can't do anything with reddit karma
[13:59] <mungbean> and i have > 5 user accounts anyway
[13:59] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: impress friends, maybe
[14:00] <mungbean> depending on which sub i'm posting in, disclsing personal info etc
[14:00] <mungbean> i even destroy my irc karma once a year
[14:02] <mungbean> http://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/
[14:02] <mungbean> cool sub
[14:30] <diplo> heh, just looking at  /r/wtf :)
[14:33] <popey> Morning
[14:35] <bigcalm> Good evening
[14:42] <shauno> is /r/all not in the default subs?
[14:43] <mgdm> that wouldn't really make sense, would it?
[14:44] <shauno> I don't see why not, because only the top of /r/all would make it to the front page
[14:45] <SuperMatt> poor /r/atheism
[14:45] <shauno> so it'd seed the default frontpage with the most interesting posts from everywhere else
[14:45] <mungbean> sad angry ignorant children in that sub
[14:46] <SuperMatt> it was a nice place to go to see funny images
[14:49] <mgdm> The only reason I have a reddit account is to remove /r/atheism
[14:49] <mungbean> lol
[14:49] <mungbean> i rarely sub to default ones
[14:49] <mungbean> i prefer midlyinteresting and pareidolia
[14:50] <mungbean> unsub all the biggies as its mostly dupes and kids discovering facts of life for the first time
[14:50] <mungbean> TIL there was a man on the mOON!
[14:50] <shauno> and he's made of cheese!
[14:50] <mgdm> what's 'pareidolia'?
[14:51] <mungbean> things that look like other things, usually faces
[14:51] <mungbean> its funny
[14:51] <mgdm> ahh, yes
[14:51] <mgdm> I knew I'd seen the word but couldn't remember what it was
[14:51] <mungbean> cos a handdrier has a face liek -_-
[14:52] <mgdm> my favourite of those is the evil plotting boxes
[14:52] <mgdm> http://richardwiseman.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/boxes.jpg
[14:53] <SuperMatt> so good
[14:53] <bigcalm> Soon
[15:02] <mungbean> i like the boxes
[15:02] <mungbean> eeebil
[15:20] <mungbean> its clear what the line is that people want to pay for ubuntu edge phone
[15:21] <mungbean> also, would people normally balk at $30 shipping cost?
[15:23] <bigcalm> It's relative to the cost of the purchase
[15:37] <HoT|2fC^> Anyone know why I can't access SSH anymore?
[15:37] <HoT|2fC^> It's just stopped working saying It cant find connection, I have internet on.
[15:38] <diddledan> I shut off access
[15:38] <HoT|2fC^> :o
[15:38] <diddledan> I was fed up with "haxx0rs"
[15:38] <HoT|2fC^> You did what :D
[15:38] <HoT|2fC^> Noway!
[15:38] <mungbean> packets were leaking all over the floor
[15:38] <HoT|2fC^> waaa
[15:38] <diddledan> yeah, that too
[15:38] <HoT|2fC^> Seriously?
[15:39] <HoT|2fC^> When I try use Putty it says the host im entering does not exist :\
[15:39] <brobostigon> are you using ip or hostname ?
[15:39] <HoT|2fC^> both brobostigon still wont work im doing it from my windows machine..
[15:39] <mungbean> what is the exact error
[15:39] <HoT|2fC^> Ive been in and out on the iPhone to on my travels.
[15:39] <mungbean> and can you ping the host from your pc
[15:39] <HoT|2fC^> mungbean yeah ping works on that server IP
[15:40] <brobostigon> can you ping the hostname?
[15:40] <HoT|2fC^> not sure :\
[15:40] <diddledan> ping is THE most useful program evar!
[15:40] <HoT|2fC^> let me see
[15:40] <HoT|2fC^> nope says bad request
[15:40] <diddledan> followed shortly by dogz
[15:40] <SuperMatt> nmap the host to see if the port is open
[15:40] <brobostigon> issue partly solved,
[15:40] <mungbean> what are you typing
[15:41] <HoT|2fC^> ping hostname ?
[15:41] <mungbean> exactly
[15:41] <HoT|2fC^> in CMD promt lol
[15:41] <mungbean> what is the hostname
[15:41] <HoT|2fC^> why?
[15:41] <HoT|2fC^> :)
[15:41] <mungbean> what exact characters are you typing
[15:41] <HoT|2fC^> I know it ..
[15:41] <mungbean> your pc doesn't know it
[15:41] <HoT|2fC^> ping "myhost"
[15:41] <HoT|2fC^> did before :\
[15:41] <mungbean> in "quotes"?
[15:41] <brobostigon> dont use ""
[15:41] <HoT|2fC^> why not now :/ no I didnt use ""
[15:41] <mungbean> what exact characters are you typing
[15:41] <mungbean> what exact characters are you typing
[15:42] <mungbean> gettit?
[15:42] <HoT|2fC^> ping hostname
[15:42] <mungbean> is it a host in your house?
[15:42] <SuperMatt> are you typing hostname in here to protect your hostname, or are you actually typing hostname?
[15:42] <HoT|2fC^> mungbean yes
[15:42] <HoT|2fC^> typing hostname to protect my hostname
[15:43] <mungbean> ok the host has an ip address.
[15:43] <HoT|2fC^> I did that :)
[15:43] <mungbean> but your PC can't translate the hostname to IP
[15:43] <mungbean> can you ping the ip
[15:43] <mungbean> ping <IP_ADDRESS>
[15:43] <HoT|2fC^> mungbean: yes
[15:43] <mungbean> and if you type that in putty?
[15:44] <HoT|2fC^> I get on PuTTY: Network Error: Timed out.
[15:44] <mungbean> because sshd is not running on the server maybe
[15:44] <HoT|2fC^> I rebooted the server?
[15:44] <HoT|2fC^> How would it turn its self off ?
[15:44] <mungbean> ps -ef | grep sshd
[15:44] <HoT|2fC^> I cant access the server mungbean how would I do ps -ef | grep sshd :(
[15:45] <HoT|2fC^> Even if I go down it says Out of range on my screen anyway \o/
[15:45] <HoT|2fC^> Also the screen I use, I am using now for my PC in my room.
[15:45] <HoT|2fC^> So short of screens :o
[15:45] <mungbean> but it returns ping?
[15:45] <HoT|2fC^> yes
[15:45] <mungbean> are you sure it is the correct host?
[15:45] <mungbean> maybe your phone is using that IP now
[15:45] <HoT|2fC^> yeah
[15:45] <HoT|2fC^> :o
[15:46] <HoT|2fC^> I tried on my phone an it wont let me connect either
[15:46] <mungbean> look on the wifi router to see which IPs are allocated
[15:46] <MooDoo> is the sshd running on the server?
[15:46] <MooDoo> sorry if i'm interferring
[15:46] <diddledan> networking concepts should be taught at primary schools
[15:46] <HoT|2fC^> MooDoo it should be yeah
[15:46] <HoT|2fC^> lol diddledan indeed!
[15:46] <MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: should?
[15:47] <HoT|2fC^> it should be running ?
[15:47] <HoT|2fC^> on the server Monotoko
[15:47] <HoT|2fC^> MooDoo*
[15:47] <MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: no the answer should yes it is, if you're not sure it might not be which could be causing your problems :D
[15:47] <HoT|2fC^> When I go on accteched devices I get my server name "Host" and "IP" with "MAC"
[15:48] <HoT|2fC^> MooDoo, so why did it work before :]
[15:48] <MooDoo> hmmmm interesting
[15:48] <HoT|2fC^> gets me..
[15:48] <mungbean> you could type blindly into the server if screen is bust
[15:48] <mungbean> ctrl-alt-f1
[15:48] <mungbean> username ->
[15:48] <mungbean> password
[15:49] <mungbean> sudo service ssh restart
[15:49] <diddledan> ooh, debian import freeze - that means we're getting close, right?
[15:49] <mungbean> password
[15:49] <diddledan> 13.10**
[15:49] <HoT|2fC^> mungbean, ahh ok ok :)
[15:49] <HoT|2fC^> I will go ahead and try that now then...
[15:49] <brobostigon> diddledan: a few more months to go. :)
[15:50] <diddledan> only 2
[15:50] <diddledan> that's a couple, not a few :-p
[15:52] <HoT|2fC^> mungbean just tried that and still no luck :( says Connection Timed out again.
[15:53] <MooDoo> hmm something doesn't sound right
[15:53] <HoT|2fC^> yeah I know :\
[15:53] <HoT|2fC^> weird..
[15:53] <MooDoo> did you give the server a static ip or is it DHCP?
[15:53] <HoT|2fC^> I gave it a DHCP :\
[15:53] <HoT|2fC^> It was static but I then changed it...
[15:53] <HoT|2fC^> was working fine
[15:53] <MooDoo> I would of left it as a static IP
[15:53] <HoT|2fC^> It was dhcp
[15:54] <HoT|2fC^> then changed to static, then back to dhcp an no problems...
[15:54] <MooDoo> if you've set it up right it being static should have no prblems if setup ok
[15:54] <HoT|2fC^> It was ok on my phone I was installing SteamCMD
[15:55] <HoT|2fC^> logged out an now when I try it on my phone or PC it wont work.
[15:55] <MooDoo> ok so what's the IP of the server now?
[15:56] <HoT|2fC^> same its always been :/
[15:56] <HoT|2fC^> I added it to my Router > LAN
[15:56] <HoT|2fC^> so it makes it static? I just added the server with IP 192.168.0.xxx
[15:57] <MooDoo> you shouldn't have to add it to the router....if all machines on your lan are dhcp then it should just work, you ssh from the machine your on to the server using it's IP and if SSHD is enabled it should respond.
[15:57] <HoT|2fC^> mmm I see ok so must be down on the server ...
[15:57] <MooDoo> router <IP_ADDRESS>    server <IP_ADDRESS>   pc <IP_ADDRESS> as and example and you should be able to just ssh
[15:57] <HoT|2fC^> I must go try this screen now as I changed in the GRUB before the res to 1024x768
[15:58] <MooDoo> yeah you need to be able to see the server so you can watch what's going on
[15:58] <MooDoo> and can access it
[15:58] <HoT|2fC^> Yeah
[15:58] <HoT|2fC^> Brb :) will go see.
[16:03] <HoT|2fC^iPad> on my phone i can see tty now i did sudo service ssh restart an get ssh stop/waiting.. ssh start/running, process xxx
[16:03] <MooDoo> do a ifconfig and confirm the servers ip
[16:04] <MooDoo> look for eth0
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> ip addr show dev eth0
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> ifconfig = old & deprecated
[16:05] <HoT|2fC^iPad> eth0: 192.160.0.xxx yes its correct IP.
[16:05] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: i know but it's a one word command
[16:05] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: but old & busted :)
[16:05] <MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: ok what os is on the laptop/pc?
[16:05] <MattJ> `ifc<TAB>eth0` is too easy
[16:06] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Ubuntu Server 12.04.2 LTS on DL380 G3
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> MattJ: alias i='ip addr show dev'
[16:06] <bigcalm> Anybody know if Spotify have a support route for reporting badly ripped tracks? The one I was listening to just now was really skippy
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I think that's up to the label
[16:06] <bigcalm> Oh :|
[16:06] <SuperMatt> I just do ip a
[16:06] <MattJ> bigcalm, sure it's the actual audio? Sometimes I get that, but it's fixed by restarting
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: ip a s eth0 ?
[16:07] <SuperMatt> that'll do
[16:07] <bigcalm> MattJ: all tracks are fine until I get to this one track: http://open.spotify.com/track/7lUEfgYUsAyGw1dNClLU35
[16:07] <MattJ> bigcalm, but in general no, they don't handle reports for any of the music, including incorrect metadata (quite annoying)
[16:07] <bigcalm> Shame
[16:07] <SuperMatt> that's annoying
[16:08] <bigcalm> It is, as I really like Fish
[16:08] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: what's wrong with that track?
[16:08] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: part way though it starts skipping
[16:08] <HoT|2fC^iPad> dam connection
[16:08] <HoT|2fC^iPad> it pings from my server to my pc
[16:08] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: how far in?
[16:08] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: 3:07
[16:08] <MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: so what ok is on your pc?  windows?
[16:08] <MooDoo> sok
[16:08] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: agreed. it's not on your end :)
[16:08] <bigcalm> :)
[16:09] <HoT|2fC^iPad> yes windows
[16:09] <MooDoo> so using putty what happens when you ssh to the servers IP address?
[16:09] <HoT|2fC^iPad> same message :/ Connection lost: Timed out
[16:10] <HoT|2fC^iPad> I have restarted the server now
[16:10] <MattJ> bigcalm, yeah, it's definitely broken, it keeps repeating "fish" over and over
[16:10] <MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: on the server sudo netstat -alnp |grep :22
[16:10] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Loading it back up, can I get intothe GUI instead of this TTY .. Ctrl>Alt>F1
[16:11] <bigcalm> MattJ: :D
[16:11] <HoT|2fC^iPad> I get out of range again arghhh
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: are you on the same network?
[16:11] <HoT|2fC^iPad> i did crrl alt f1
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> or are you on another network (different DHCP server, or mobile instead of home, etc.)
[16:11] <HoT|2fC^iPad> MartijnVdS,  yes
[16:12] <HoT|2fC^iPad> on my home network
[16:12] <HoT|2fC^iPad> not using mobiles network now
[16:13] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Im annoyed cant access an console on server as says out of range still
[16:14] <SuperMatt> reboot again, but when grub comes up, go in to failsafe mode
[16:14] <HoT|2fC^iPad> I cant see SuperMatt ??
[16:15] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Cant see my grub!
[16:15] <SuperMatt> nothing at all? that seems weird
[16:15] <SuperMatt> I would have thought grub would pick a safe resolution
[16:15] <HoT|2fC^iPad> i get _ blink top left an then out of range on screen
[16:15] <SuperMatt> ok, jam in a usb/cd and reconfigure stuff
[16:15] <HoT|2fC^iPad> its to do with BIOS ON THIS system sorry caps
[16:15] <SuperMatt> rather than say sorry caps, why didn't you just fix it?!
[16:16] <SuperMatt> it wasn't too late!
[16:16] <HoT|2fC^iPad> mmm then hat with the disc in??
[16:16] <HoT|2fC^iPad> what*
[16:17] <DJones> HoT|2fC^iPad: You may want to to remember that us thus ubunt-uk so Enlish is the expected language, "HoT|2fC^iPad> mmm then hat with the disc in??
[16:17] <DJones> Make absoloutley no sense at all all
[16:17] <HoT|2fC^iPad> DJones, you try and type via iphone lol
[16:18] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Ok booted up with ubuntu serer 12.04.2 lts in and will boot from cd yes ?
[16:19] <HoT|2fC^iPad> booted now what lol
[16:19] <DJones> HoT|2fC^iPad: I use android myself, however I do read what I write before pressing enter
[16:19] <SuperMatt> well, if you can see the screen, you can mount your disk and fix the resolution issues
[16:19] <SuperMatt> and also check your networking
[16:19] <HoT|2fC^iPad> I can yes SuperMatt when I boot from the disc..
[16:20] <SuperMatt> never underestimate the power of a live cd/usb
[16:20] <HoT|2fC^iPad> :o
[16:21] <MooDoo> isn't it a pain when something so simple just doesn't work :S
[16:21] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Yes :( I know the feeling.
[16:24] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Ok I got, Install Ubuntu Server, Multiple server install with MASS, Check disc for defects, Test memory, Boot from first hard disk, Rescue a broken system then i have F1: Help, F2 Language, F3: Keymap, F4: Modes, F5: Accessibility, F6: Other options
[16:24] <HoT|2fC^iPad> So what now? :)
[16:28] <MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: are you wanting to just install server? then i would install ubuntu server, when it asks you what options to pick make sure it's SSH server
[16:29] <HoT|2fC^iPad> MooDoo, I did that :/
[16:29] <HoT|2fC^iPad> I have it installed already.
[16:29] <MooDoo> HoT|2fC^iPad: then you're doing something wrong, a simple ubuntu install with a ssh server should just work
[16:29] <HoT|2fC^iPad> The OS and SSH is installed..
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> and ping works as well?
[16:30] <HoT|2fC^iPad> MartijnVdS, yes
[16:30] <DJones> HoT|2fC^iPad: What happens when you ssh to the server then?
[16:31] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Same thing as before :/
[16:31] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Connection timed out
[16:31] <HoT|2fC^iPad> ising host name to connect ip and external ip
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> connection timed out makes me think there's a firewall
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> that's dropping packets
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> or you're mis-typing the IP
[16:31] <HoT|2fC^iPad> ohh crap
[16:32] <HoT|2fC^iPad> I did fire wall settings off here ...
[16:32] <HoT|2fC^iPad> http://www.ctrlalttech.com/steamCMD_Ubuntu_Linux
[16:32] <DJones> HoT|2fC^iPad: Presumably you have done the obvious thing and allowed your router to enable ssh connections to your server
[16:32] <HoT|2fC^iPad> I followed those steps amd enabled firewall that explains it then :O
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: don't follow random HOWTOs of the internet when you ask other people to help you
[16:32] <HoT|2fC^iPad> I have to reinstall the os and do it agaim
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: *first* fix the boot stuff, so you can use the screen
[16:33] <HoT|2fC^iPad> True but im like that lol I should not really i know z
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: *then* set up the firewall (preferrably using "ufw")
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: don't run commands you don't know the meaning of, basically
[16:33] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Yeah true I will this time
[16:33] <HoT|2fC^iPad> ok :o thanks MartijnVdS
[16:36] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: no problem, just a precaution for next time :)
[16:36] <HoT|2fC^iPad> MartijnVdS, indeed! I ised entire disc to install I only have one 36GB SCSI drive.
[16:37] <HoT|2fC^iPad> used*
[16:37] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Is that ok? or would i of needed to do a swap file and ext4 pr something
[16:39] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: that's what the "full disk" install does automatically I think
[16:39] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Ah okok :) no need to worry there then.
[16:50] <HoT|2fC^iPad> shell i no install grub as it will be the only OS on my hard drive? its asking Install the grub boot loader on a hard disk?
[16:51] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: select the option that installs it in "mbr" or "master boot record"
[16:51] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Can I not just select "no" ? As its messing my res up anyway
[16:51] <MartijnVdS> it won't boot without a boot loader
[16:51] <HoT|2fC^iPad> oh right ok good job I didnt hit no lol
[17:44] <HoT|2fC^> ok Im back and running, so I have Ubuntu Server 12.04.2 LTS (32Bit) running on my server... and when I turn it on I get "Out of Range" along my 17inch LCD monitor, so I have SSH installed and I am able to access it via my Windows PC using PuTTY.
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: yay :)
[17:44] <HoT|2fC^> I am now in the System, what do I do from here?
[17:44] <HoT|2fC^> hehe MartijnVdS ;) ty ty!
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: I sent you a HOWTO yesterday, to fix grub
[17:45] <HoT|2fC^> Framebuffer?
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> http://askubuntu.com/questions/92276/how-do-i-boot-into-true-text-mode -> Jorge Castro's answer
[17:45] <HoT|2fC^> wiki how one ..
[17:45] <HoT|2fC^> ah ok ok :)
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> ^ that fixes grub
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> after that, we fix the kernel :)
[17:45] <diddledan> what's wrong with the kernel?
[17:45] <diddledan> o_O
[17:45] <HoT|2fC^> Ok I see :)
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: his monitor claims to support a resolution it doesn't support
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: so the kernel happily drives it at the high resolution
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: but the screen goes "EEP"
[17:46] <HoT|2fC^> yes diddledan what he said.
[17:46] <diddledan> oh dear
[17:46] <HoT|2fC^> Yeah it's kinda bad, but fixable :)
[17:46] <diddledan> nomodeset :-p
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: yeah but *grub* also uses a nonstandard graphics mode these days
[17:47] <diddledan> ergh
[17:47] <HoT|2fC^> yeah
[17:47] <diddledan> that's annoying
[17:47] <HoT|2fC^> bummer :)
[17:47] <HoT|2fC^> indeed!
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: monitors should just have proper info embedded
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: how old are your screens? :)
[17:47] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS its a Digimate 17inch LCD its around 8 years
[17:47] <diddledan> very old by the sounds
[17:47] <HoT|2fC^> more..
[17:48] <HoT|2fC^> I have another one but a Samtron 17inch LCD thats busted :)
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: yeah, current monitors have proper ID chips in them.. old ones (especially off-brand ones) don't :)
[17:48] <HoT|2fC^> Ah yeah I understand...
[17:48] <HoT|2fC^> hey MartijnVdS am I right in doing this after I installed Ubuntu...
[17:49] <HoT|2fC^> sudo apt-get update > sudo apt-get upgrade
[17:49] <HoT|2fC^> ?
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: that updates the package list, then upgrades all packages that have updates available
[17:49] <HoT|2fC^> I nice nice
[17:49] <HoT|2fC^> Ah8
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: 'man apt-get' will tell you what it does exactly
[17:51] <HoT|2fC^> http://pastebin.com/6SUfzyvB
[17:51] <HoT|2fC^> thats what I get when I do "man apt-get"
[17:52] <diddledan> ok, grub-pc (2.0) uses the option "GRUB_TERMINAL=console" to disable the gfx - not sure how to do it in grub 1 anymore
[17:52] <diddledan> that's in /etc/default/grub
[17:52] <HoT|2fC^> guys could I remote desktop it ?
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: yeah, that's the manual :)
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: uh.. you ssh'd to it
[17:52] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, oh man I fail LoL
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you would you also remote-desktop? :)
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: press 'q' to quit the pager
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: there are manuals for most (if not all) commands you can run
[17:53] <HoT|2fC^> nice :)
[17:53] <HoT|2fC^> 'q' is a nice one
[17:53]  * popey heads home
[17:53] <Laney> zoom zoom
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> popey: *woosh*
[17:53]  * HoT|2fC^ hands him some petrol moneys..
[17:54]  * Laney heads to read his book in the park
[17:54] <HoT|2fC^> go super fast! :D only kidding, safe journeys.
[17:54] <Laney> stupid Qt has annoyed me of the computer
[17:54] <Laney> off
[17:54] <diddledan> don't listen to the william tell overture!
[17:54] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: ?
[17:55] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, so now I go to edit /etc/default/grub
[17:55] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: makes you drive too fast
[17:55] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: yes, like the post on askubuntu explains how
[17:56] <HoT|2fC^> how would I edit it ?
[17:56] <HoT|2fC^> do I need to use vim
[17:56] <diddledan> nano
[17:56] <HoT|2fC^> or some editer
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you can use any editor you like
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> nano is probably the easiest
[17:57] <HoT|2fC^> so id do nano then /etc/default/grub
[17:57] <diddledan> I like nano except that it uses ^w for find so I get used to it and then try the same combo in my gui editors >.<
[17:57] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: well, that file can only be edited by the superuser
[17:57] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: so you have to run nano as superuser: sudo nano /etc/default/grub
[17:57] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: man sudo ;)
[17:58] <diddledan> HoT|2fC^: ofc, if you have trouble with man, try: man man :-p
[17:58] <HoT|2fC^> lol
[17:58] <HoT|2fC^> :)
[17:58] <HoT|2fC^> ok im in
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> no really
[17:59] <HoT|2fC^> ah right haha thats cool :)
[17:59] <diddledan> self-hosting ftw
[17:59] <diddledan> gcc compiles gcc,etc.
[17:59] <HoT|2fC^> so I add these lines to my grub menu ?
[18:00] <diddledan> the lines should already be there
[18:00] <diddledan> you just need to change them to be the same as shown
[18:00] <HoT|2fC^> ah ok :)
[18:00] <HoT|2fC^> ty diddledan
[18:00] <diddledan> line 11 needs a # at the beginning, and line 20 needs the # removed
[18:01] <HoT|2fC^> really?
[18:01] <diddledan> (according to the answer on the askubuntu page)
[18:02] <HoT|2fC^> :o
[18:02] <diddledan> you could change line 11 instead of putting the # leave it as is but replace "quiet splash" with "nomodeset"
[18:02] <HoT|2fC^> to edit in nano what do I press to edit ?
[18:02] <HoT|2fC^> ok
[18:02] <diddledan> erm.. anything?
[18:02] <HoT|2fC^> just type
[18:03] <HoT|2fC^> lol
[18:03] <diddledan> yup, it's not arcane like vim
[18:03] <HoT|2fC^> ah ok nice :)
[18:04] <HoT|2fC^> and for my gfx res size shell I do 1024x768?
[18:04] <diddledan> I think I'm a coke addict
[18:04] <diddledan> HoT|2fC^: you shouldn't need to touch the resolution if you uncomment GRUB_TERMINAL=console
[18:05] <HoT|2fC^> if I uncomment beep at grub start will it beep
[18:05]  * neuro has just ordered a bunch of stuff to upgrade his esxi server this w/e
[18:05] <diddledan> it should do if your server has a speaker embedded
[18:06] <HoT|2fC^> diddledan, but that (grub-pc only) does that not mean not for a server
[18:06] <diddledan> neuro: esxi requires windows to manage it, doesn't it?
[18:06] <HoT|2fC^> ah yeah it beeps has speaker.
[18:06] <neuro> sadly
[18:06] <neuro> which is why i keep a dell vostro hanging around
[18:06] <neuro> and win7 VMs on my macbook pros
[18:07] <neuro> should be pretty funky
[18:07] <diddledan> HoT|2fC^: no, grub-pc means the version of grub, (for BIOS based computers as opposed to EFI/uEFI based)
[18:07] <neuro> the 1tb that the machine shipped with is knackered, i'm pretty sure
[18:07] <neuro> so have ordered a 500gb wd black to replace it
[18:07] <HoT|2fC^> diddledan, ty
[18:07] <neuro> and a synology ds213j with 2x wd red 2tb for vm storage
[18:08] <diddledan> neuro: I'm jealous
[18:08] <neuro> quarterly bonus time \o/
[18:08] <diddledan> no fair
[18:08] <neuro> bit mad, ebuyer were doing a bundle deal
[18:08] <diddledan> I haven't checked how much I got paid yet today
[18:08] <neuro> ds213j with 2x wd red 2tb preinstalled
[18:08] <diddledan> ooh
[18:08] <neuro> for about 360 quid
[18:08]  * diddledan clickies
[18:08] <neuro> but they're doing a special on 2tb reds until the 31st
[18:09] <neuro> so it's actually cheaper to buy the bare ds213j and the 2tb reds separately
[18:09] <neuro> comes out to about 230 quid
[18:09] <neuro> erk
[18:09] <neuro> 320 quid
[18:10] <neuro> first time playing with synology stuff, so should be interesting
[18:10] <HoT|2fC^> diddledan, after I have done sudo update-grub
[18:10] <HoT|2fC^> can I remote test it then ?
[18:10] <diddledan> synologys are quite nice
[18:10] <HoT|2fC^> so I can see whats on screen (IE: Login Screen).
[18:10] <HoT|2fC^> Access the desktop ?
[18:11] <HoT|2fC^> on my server be nice !
[18:11] <diddledan> HoT|2fC^: you installed server, there is no desktop
[18:11] <neuro> also means i can shut down my old esxi 4 server, so this'll save electricity in the long run :)
[18:12] <diddledan> HoT|2fC^: the point of server is that it is bare-minimum to operate so that you can run mission critical workloads without things like gui desktop providing attack vectors
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> (or memory/cpu load)
[18:12] <neuro> or using up additional system resources
[18:12] <neuro> yeah
[18:12] <diddledan> yeah, them too
[18:12] <neuro> those pesky rams
[18:13] <diddledan> baaa
[18:13] <HoT|2fC^> lol yhaha yeah nice
[18:13] <HoT|2fC^> I see
[18:13] <diddledan> how dare you incite my welshness?!
[18:13] <HoT|2fC^> :}
[18:13] <HoT|2fC^> how do I save in nano now im done?
[18:14] <diddledan> press ctrl+x and then type y followed by enter
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> like it says at the bottom
[18:14] <HoT|2fC^> done now sudo update-grub
[18:14] <diddledan> yup
[18:15] <HoT|2fC^> ok thats done
[18:15] <HoT|2fC^> now kernal :o
[18:15] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, where are ya :D
[18:15] <neuro> i must admit, i was tempted to buy more toys off ebuyer but i'm gonna save some pennies to get an xbox one in november :)
[18:16] <diddledan> :-o microsnot?! </troll>
[18:16] <neuro> if microsoft do one thing well, it's hardware
[18:16]  * neuro hugs his 360
[18:16] <diddledan> which happens to be quite ironic for a software company
[18:16] <neuro> in fact i'll be off to play some battlefield 3 soon
[18:17] <neuro> ha yeah
[18:17] <diddledan> ergh, my work siren just went off
[18:17] <diddledan> something's broke
[18:17] <neuro> wow, this is the first order i've placed with ebuyer since august
[18:17] <neuro> when i bought all my stuff to build my esxi box
[18:18] <neuro> ram, nics etc
[18:19] <HoT|2fC^> how do you unzip a tar.gz file ?
[18:20] <diddledan> HoT|2fC^: tar zxvf file.tar.gz
[18:21] <HoT|2fC^> diddledan, thanks I was just doing that before and I got a error let me see...
[18:22] <neuro> bear in mind that will unpack the tarball into the current directory
[18:22] <neuro> you can see what's inside by using the test flag: tar tvzf file.tar.gz
[18:22] <neuro> and i usually create a temp or scratch or fish or bob or whatever subdirectory, cd in and unpack in there
[18:23] <neuro> tar xvzf ../file.tar.gz
[18:23] <HoT|2fC^> yeah Im doing "steam"
[18:23] <HoT|2fC^> so id be in steam directtory
[18:23] <HoT|2fC^> an unpack the SteamCMD
[18:23] <HoT|2fC^> to install CS:S
[18:23] <diddledan> mkdir foo; tar zxvf file.tar.gz -C foo
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> man tar
[18:24] <HoT|2fC^> whos man and what does man do :o
[18:24] <diddledan> man man
[18:24] <HoT|2fC^> :D
[18:34]  * popey moos from portland airport
[18:34] <neuro> pdx?
[18:34] <popey> ya
[18:34] <neuro> saucy
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> popey: long wait?
[18:39] <popey> a few hours
[18:39]  * popey has found a power socket
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: it only delivers half the voltage though
[18:39] <popey> yeah, charger gets twice as hot
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: had a good time in Portland, overall?
[18:39] <popey> very
[18:40] <popey> gave the phone demo so many times
[18:40] <popey>  booth was constantly busy with people wanting to see it
[18:40] <popey> and people kept coming back to tell us they had backed the campaign after seeing us demo it
[18:41] <diddledan> nice
[18:41] <diddledan> that's good to hear
[18:41] <mungbean> yeah
[18:41] <diddledan> we're not advancing fast enough tho.. still only on 6.6
[18:42] <mungbean> do a demo on youtube, or is there one~?
[18:42] <diddledan> there's a teaser promo
[18:42] <diddledan> as featured on the indiegogo
[18:43] <popey> yeah, could do a demo of the latest state of the system
[18:43] <popey> in fact
[18:43]  * popey flashes his phone with latest image while on airport wifi
[18:43] <diddledan> lol
[18:43] <neuro> christ, you're brave
[18:43] <diddledan> that's impressive dedication!
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> he's going to try to get the entire plane to pledge on the flight bakc
[18:45] <diddledan> how long's the flight? in fact, do a presentation once the stewards have done theirs
[18:46] <popey> portland -> vancouver -> london
[18:46] <popey> arrive tomorrow at 11am
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> popey: portland -> vancouver is just a small hop though right?
[18:47] <neuro> speaking of pledges
[18:47] <popey> no idea
[18:47] <neuro> yesterday was 32K/hr
[18:47] <neuro> today so far is 21K/hr :(
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> popey: it's a 1 hour flight
[18:48] <popey> oddly flew london -> calgary -> portland on the way here
[18:48] <popey> i no longer check the indiegogo page now I have an indicator showing me the current level ☻
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> popey: (there's also a Vancouver just north of Portland in WA)
[18:49] <popey> yeah, some people from domain.com were in the booth next to us and came from there
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> but Vancouver, WA (in the US) has no airport, because it's next to the Portland International one :)
[18:49] <mungbean> going to portland UK for my holiday this year :D
[18:50] <diddledan> ok, so.. I _need_ a siren to go off whenever there's a new email in a specific gmail label. how easy will it be to code up a thingy for ubuntu touch that will do that for me so I always get alerted when something breaks? (note, I'm php+javascript by trade)
[18:50] <diddledan> that's the only thing that I require out of my android that I'm not willing to lose
[18:51] <diddledan> other than phone, obv
[18:51] <ali1234> well currently you would have to do it through web apps
[18:51] <diddledan> hmm
[18:51] <ali1234> it would be fairly easy
[18:51] <ali1234> the gmail webapp already list the number of unread emails in each labels
[18:51] <shauno> php will hit up imap easy enough, it's not ridiculuous.  but are web apps allowed to stay resident?
[18:51] <ali1234> the siren part could be hard though
[18:52] <ali1234> you probably are limited to only ubuntu notifications without a lot of excessive hackery
[18:52] <ali1234> php is not involved
[18:52] <ali1234> webapps are javascript. they work exactly like greasemonkey with an extra javascript api for unity integration
[18:53] <ali1234> in fact the mozilla version is a fork of greasemonkey, or used to be
[18:53] <shauno> just thinking that's how I'd do it, personally.  an app on the phone that pings a server every so often.  the server replies with a little json that gives you a count of how many mails are in that imap folder.  webapp goes nuts when that value doesn't match the previous
[18:54] <ali1234> there is no reason to use webapps if you do it that way
[18:54] <ali1234> Qt would be a better choice. it can easily monitor a json-rpc
[18:56] <ali1234> the only reason to use webapps instead of Qt is because the gmail webapps already exists
[18:56] <HoT|2fC^> anything I can type to get up my usage, processes etc in terminal ?
[18:57] <diddledan> HoT|2fC^: top
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: top?
[18:57] <diddledan> or ps aux
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: ps (it needs a few command line options -- see 'man ps'
[18:57] <shauno> htop!
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> shauno: no swearing
[18:57] <HoT|2fC^> LoL
[18:57] <diddledan> shauno: you gone sweedish? (shtop...)
[18:57] <shauno> gek nederlandeer!  htop has teh pretties
[18:57] <HoT|2fC^> yeah I remember that htop nice one shauno
[18:57] <HoT|2fC^> What about temps :o
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> shauno: *gekke Nederlander
[18:58] <HoT|2fC^> Interesting, an that fan speed LoL its noisey the server.
[18:58] <diddledan> HoT|2fC^: servers always are
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> servers tend to sound like airports
[18:58] <popey> apparently a De Havilland Canada DHC-8-300 Dash 8
[18:58] <shauno> that's quite normal for a server.  mine has .. I think 16 fans?
[18:58] <diddledan> popey: and you!
[18:58] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, yeah lol nice an load its in basement so its ok :)
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> popey: I flew in one of those to B'ham and back
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> popey: not too bad, but no intercontinental airliner :)
[18:59] <popey> looks cozy
[18:59] <shauno> be afraid, it's british :p
[19:00] <neuro> wat?
[19:00] <shauno> De Havilland are, or were at least, british
[19:01] <neuro> DHC stands for de Havilland Canada
[19:01] <neuro> and they're made by Bombardier now, canadian company
[19:01] <diddledan> I wonder how I'd get on if I upgraded to saucy sausage 2 months early
[19:01] <popey> wasn't canonical one a Bombardier plane?
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: works fine here
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> popey: it is
[19:01] <popey> he has a new one now I think
[19:01] <popey> not the same plane
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> popey: Canonical Two?
[19:01] <popey> heh
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> or is it a title that passes to the next plane?
[19:02] <neuro> bombardier global express
[19:02] <HoT|2fC^> anyway of getting syste, and cpu temps up in terminal?
[19:02] <neuro> owned by HBD Venture Capital
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: depends
[19:02] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, just something basic.
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you'll need to google that one.. system temps - no idea
[19:03] <HoT|2fC^> Ok :)
[19:03] <HoT|2fC^> ty
[19:03] <shauno> 'sensors' is about as basic as it gets (package lm_sensors I think)
[19:03] <neuro> aye
[19:03] <neuro> but read about it first
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> isn't lm_sensors old & busted?
[19:04] <neuro> it's still in the repos
[19:04] <shauno> no idea.  seems to work fine on my machines.  but they're no spring chickens either
[19:04] <HoT|2fC^> I did lm-sensors
[19:04] <HoT|2fC^> not found :/
[19:05] <neuro> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/lm-sensors
[19:05] <shauno> if it's been abandoned instead of fixed, that'll make me *sigh*
[19:05] <neuro> it's in universe
[19:05] <neuro> it's not
[19:05] <neuro> and i'll wager 2fC hasn't enabled universe
[19:05] <neuro> or multiverse
[19:05] <HoT|2fC^> neuro can I get in terminal ?
[19:06] <neuro> you can get anything in the termainl
[19:06] <neuro> s/termainl/terminal/
[19:06] <neuro> if you've just done a basic install, your package sources are probably a bit of a mess right now
[19:07] <HoT|2fC^> its not a basic
[19:07] <HoT|2fC^> its a full install :o
[19:07]  * neuro sighs
[19:07] <neuro> :)
[19:07] <HoT|2fC^> :o
[19:07] <neuro> if you want, and i've no doubt i'll get shouted at for suggesting this, you can edit /etc/apt/sources.list as root
[19:08] <neuro> blank it
[19:08] <neuro> and just have these three lines:
[19:08] <neuro> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ precise main restricted universe multiverse
[19:08] <neuro> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ precise-updates main restricted univers
[19:08] <mungbean> i just watched the ubuntu edge video on the IGG site
[19:08] <neuro> e multiverse
[19:08] <neuro> (stupid cropping)
[19:08] <neuro> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu precise-security main restricted universe multiverse
[19:08] <mungbean> related videos...video of stallman dissing ubuntu
[19:08] <neuro> argh
[19:08] <neuro> THE BEARDED ONE
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: like I said, don't run commands you don't know
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> neuro: Please use pastebin :P
[19:08] <neuro> i would have
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: what does "apt-get install lm-sensors" say?
[19:08] <neuro> but it's only three lines ;)
[19:09] <neuro> it'll say not found, because i'll wager he doesn't have universe enabled
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> neuro: it's enabled by default
[19:09] <neuro> you sure?
[19:09] <shauno> we're about to find out ;)
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> neuro: it is on my install, and I haven't enabled it
[19:09] <neuro> i usually need to futz about with my sources
[19:09] <neuro> hmm
[19:09] <neuro> good point
[19:09] <neuro> nonetheless, i usually remove the source repos anyway
[19:09] <neuro> i never use them
[19:09] <neuro> and tidying up sources.list is just an old habit i have
[19:09] <mungbean> and use return key less often :P
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> mungbean:
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> why
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> ?
[19:10] <neuro> http://pastebin.com/dGqThGmH
[19:10] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/nbWnvPHQ
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> wut..
[19:11] <neuro> although my usual sources list looks like this: http://pastebin.com/FgLDNC8e
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: did you install any packages?
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: manually?
[19:11] <HoT|2fC^> no
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: then.. apt-get dist-upgrade please, to install *all* security updates
[19:11] <neuro> have you done an apt-get dist-upg.... ha snap
[19:13] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/NkDuzMXr
[19:13] <neuro> something has messed up during a previous upgrade
[19:14] <HoT|2fC^> neuro, when I started the server I did, apt-get update and apt-get upgrade
[19:14] <HoT|2fC^> ive not restarted since :/
[19:14] <neuro> restarting doesn't matter
[19:14] <HoT|2fC^> mm ok
[19:14] <neuro> not at the moment anyway
[19:14] <HoT|2fC^> :]
[19:14] <HoT|2fC^> dont say that
[19:15] <HoT|2fC^> :(
[19:15] <neuro> ?
[19:15] <neuro> you'll need to restart if and when new kernels are installed
[19:15] <HoT|2fC^> I want it to stay alive :d
[19:15] <HoT|2fC^> yeah
[19:15] <diddledan> that's one of my bugbears, actually. the automated security updates system on ubuntu server prompts for rebooting far too regularly
[19:16] <neuro> that's why i don't run the automated updates :)
[19:16] <diddledan> (as does the desktop updates tool)
[19:16] <neuro> i'd do an apt-get remove lm-sensors ; apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade
[19:17] <HoT|2fC^> neuro, me ?
[19:17] <neuro> no, the *other* guy installing ubuntu server ;)
[19:17] <neuro> yes you :)
[19:17] <HoT|2fC^> LoL
[19:17] <HoT|2fC^> ah ok :) so you want me to type all those commands
[19:17] <HoT|2fC^> in one with ; ;
[19:17] <neuro> if you're at a root shell, yes
[19:17] <neuro> if not just prefix each apt-get with sudo
[19:17] <neuro> in fact
[19:18] <neuro> change the ; to &&
[19:18] <neuro> just to be safe
[19:19] <HoT|2fC^> do I need to put install to ?
[19:19] <HoT|2fC^> aget apt-get
[19:19] <neuro> ?
[19:19] <HoT|2fC^> after*
[19:19] <neuro> let's just sort this problem first before we create new ones
[19:19] <Azelphur> just heard a "horror story" from one of my friends that we might all be interested in
[19:19] <neuro> sudo apt-get remove lm-sensors && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[19:20] <HoT|2fC^> wont work
[19:20] <HoT|2fC^> get same message as before about -f
[19:20] <Azelphur> Someone stole a friend of mines laptop, he reported it to the police, as you do, the thieves got caught, so in an effort for revenge, they told the police that he had child porn on the laptop, the police arrested him and he got stuck in jail for a month
[19:20] <Azelphur> (Obviously, no such thing on the laptop)
[19:20] <Azelphur> but pretty crazy
[19:20] <neuro> wtf
[19:20] <HoT|2fC^> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
[19:21] <neuro> so do this: sudo apt-get -f install
[19:21] <Azelphur> makes me want to encrypt all the things
[19:21] <neuro> Azelphur: RIPA
[19:21] <Azelphur> neuro: yea, this was in USA
[19:21] <neuro> you'd be forced to hand over your keys
[19:21] <neuro> oh right
[19:21] <Azelphur> oh wow, we have force to hand over your keys laws?
[19:21] <neuro> have done for years
[19:21] <Azelphur> that's broken \o/
[19:21] <Azelphur> yay for testifying against yourself
[19:22] <neuro> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/23/contents
[19:22] <HoT|2fC^> ok working all precise security updates
[19:23] <Azelphur> neuro: makes me want to do something that makes it so that even if I give them the keys, they still can't access it
[19:23] <HoT|2fC^> neuro, there done then :)
[19:23] <neuro> now do: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[19:23] <neuro> just to be on the safe side
[19:24] <HoT|2fC^> Roger that!
[19:24] <neuro> yay, all my ebuyer goodies are coming from the same warehouse
[19:24] <neuro> single delivery \o/
[19:25] <HoT|2fC^> I love that single delivery! hate Amazon when the send 1-by-1 lol
[19:25] <neuro> i don't mind that so much
[19:25] <neuro> but all this stuff is tied together
[19:25] <neuro> i need the wd reds to install in the nas to connect to the esxi server that i'm putting the wd black into
[19:26] <neuro> ahhh just realised i need to do some GigE switch shenanigans to accomodate another nas :P
[19:28] <diddledan> most switches these days can be daisy-chained
[19:28] <neuro> yeah, that's the plan
[19:28] <neuro> i have a spare linksys to plug into the procurve
[19:28] <neuro> move my laptop and desktop over to it
[19:28] <diddledan> annoying, however, is that they don't like loops
[19:28] <neuro> that'll free up a port and i can plug the new nas in there
[19:29] <neuro> keep the throughput up so it's port to port to the esxi box
[19:29] <neuro> dammit
[19:29] <neuro> that's what else i meant to buy
[19:29] <neuro> http://www.ebuyer.com/225328-hp-v1410-16g-gigabit-switch-j9560a
[19:30] <neuro> my current one is only an 8-port
[19:30] <neuro> too late to change the order :(
[19:31] <diddledan> why you using esxi rather than kvm or xen, if I may be so bold?
[19:31] <HoT|2fC^> neuro, there done :)
[19:31] <neuro> just preference
[19:31] <neuro> nominally one less OS to worry about
[19:31] <diddledan> fair enough
[19:31] <neuro> since it's lighter than running ubuntu + kvm
[19:31] <neuro> 2fC: cool, have fun :)
[19:32] <neuro> though it does have the pain in the bum of needing windows to manage it more easily
[19:32] <HoT|2fC^> neuro, awesome thanks for that and you MartijnVdS, diddledan, MooDoo :)
[19:32] <neuro> yw
[19:32] <HoT|2fC^> brobostigon you to buddy!
[19:32] <shauno> I keep meaning to play with esxi, and keep running into the same problem :/
[19:34] <diddledan> there's proxmox for a linux+kvm/openvz solution, but it doesn't really stand up against the big players
[19:34] <diddledan> http://proxmox.org/proxmox-ve
[19:34] <shauno> I still find openstack very interesting, but it's a complete beast to configure
[19:36] <mungbean> cloudstack easier
[19:37]  * HoT|2fC^ pokes TheKernalMan
[19:40] <neuro> "Order Despatched"
[19:41] <neuro> good grief
[19:41] <neuro> i only ordered it at 7pm
[19:41] <diddledan> when's delivery?
[19:41] <neuro> sometime tomorrow
[19:41] <diddledan> impressive
[19:41] <diddledan> that's quick shiny turnaround
[19:41] <neuro> oh no
[19:41] <neuro> OH NO
[19:42] <neuro> "This part of your order will be delivered by Yodel."
[19:42] <neuro> NOOOOOOOOOO </vader>
[19:42] <diddledan> dear dog!
[19:42] <neuro> hope it makes it alive
[19:42] <neuro> hope i actually get it tomorrow
[19:42] <shauno> hope you actually get it :/
[19:43] <neuro> if they put a card through the door, i will go postal (no pun intended)
[19:43] <neuro> looks like tomorrow is "sit in the office and play simcity" day
[19:43] <neuro> office is right next to the front door
[19:44] <diddledan> they'll find a way for you to miss them
[19:44] <mungbean> which version SC?>
[19:44] <diddledan> they'll wait till you pee
[19:44] <diddledan> then pounce
[19:44] <neuro> i'll see anyone walking up to the door, so if they come up to the door, don't knock, and put a card through, i'll bloomin' well have them
[19:44] <neuro> diddledan: i can hold it :)
[19:44] <mungbean> i think royal mail should sell lockable mail boxes at cost price , would work out cheaper if everyone had a drop box
[19:44] <mungbean> outside their house
[19:44]  * neuro can go 24h without a wee wee if necessary
[19:45] <diddledan> nice to know
[19:45] <neuro> mungbean: they'd need to be made of titanium encased in concrete and have 480V running through them
[19:45] <mungbean> i went from 5-11 without doing a wee at school
[19:45] <mungbean> school toilets were an open sewer
[19:45] <diddledan> mungbean: 6 years?!
[19:45] <neuro> lol
[19:45] <neuro> i thought you'd meant 5am-11am
[19:46] <neuro> mungbean: anyway, to distract the conversation's current direction, the latest simcity
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> neuro: 5am to 11pm
[19:47] <neuro> am waiting patiently for the delayed mac version to come out so i can play simcity in the living room without having to run it in a VM
[19:47] <mungbean> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23460709
[19:47] <mungbean> the plague?
[19:47] <neuro> yeah, saw that
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: the black one
[19:47] <neuro> the squirrels are carriers
[19:47] <mungbean> bubonic?
[19:47] <neuro> yup
[19:47] <neuro> so they have to double check if the squirrel was just a carrier and died of natural causes, or if it was the plague that killed it
[19:47] <neuro> happens every few years over there
[19:48] <neuro> but, of course, it's the news, so PLAGUE ZOMG RUN!
[19:49] <neuro> speaking of bubonic plague, time to order up my payday pizza from dominos
[19:49] <diddledan> what a good idea
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: payday pizza?
[19:49] <diddledan> nah, the plague! :-/
[19:49] <diddledan> :-p
[19:49] <neuro> "We're sorry but you can't complete your order without entering your full postcode."
[19:49] <neuro> but i'm logged in
[19:49] <shauno> careful, you'll start to sound like dan brown :p
[19:49] <neuro> why don't you know my postcode?!
[19:50] <diddledan> shauno: I've got the right name
[19:50] <shauno> there used to be a script to order dominos
[19:50] <diddledan> really?
[19:50] <diddledan> dominos API?!
[19:50] <neuro> hehe
[19:50] <neuro> wouldn't surprise me
[19:50]  * diddledan needs
[19:50] <neuro> na, scraper most likely
[19:51] <diddledan> ./dominos -o something_hot -t NOW
[19:51] <neuro> i remember ordering online from them in 2000 when i was working in chelmsford
[19:51] <neuro> cash only :)
[19:52] <diddledan> who remembers sandra bullock's pizza ordering in "the net"?!
[19:52] <neuro> haha
[19:52] <neuro> some of the worst Movie OS examples are in that movie
[19:52] <diddledan> hell yeah
[19:52] <neuro> not quite as egregious as what you see in most Jerry Bruckheimer movies ...
[19:53] <neuro> but still ...
[19:53] <shauno> hm, perhaps I was wrong .. all I can find now are scripts that parse the tracker
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> wow.. that's 18 years old already
[19:53] <diddledan> I don't get why film makers insist on faking it
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: because it's flashier
[19:53] <mungbean> there's an odd/boring programme called 4 rooms on atm
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: on where?
[19:54] <mungbean> ch4
[19:54] <shauno> if people realised that at nuclear subs use win2k, they're be worried
[19:54] <shauno> *our
[19:54] <mungbean> seems to be so many programmes all about money and wheeler dealers
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: isn't it the film? "Four Rooms"?
[19:54] <shauno> I can't type anymore.  I almost always find real words, but they're not always the same ones my head had in mind
[19:54] <diddledan> they actually created physical three-dimensional models for the ui in hackers because computer generated graphics weren't realistic enough
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: with Madonna and Tarantino?
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113101/
[19:54] <neuro> this will be good once they populate it more: http://www.noteloop.com/kit/fui/
[19:55] <mungbean> no, its a programme
[19:55] <diddledan> shauno: are you sure it's 2000, and not NT3.51?
[19:56] <shauno> it's 2k on the trident boats
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010111 + the next week of comics
[19:56] <shauno> that was done during a refit :/
[19:56] <diddledan> how progressive of them
[19:57] <neuro> and for your viewing pleasure ...
[19:57] <neuro> http://www.oooii.com/wp-content/uploads/2003/06/OOOii_IJ_v10.png
[19:57] <neuro> NAME THAT FILM!
[19:57] <mungbean> http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/23/4551114/wwi-submarine-graveyard-discovered-by-underwater-archaeologists
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> neuro: enemy of the state?
[19:58] <neuro> nope
[19:58] <diddledan> nope
[19:58] <diddledan> that's a tough one
[19:58] <neuro> and no-one go using google image search :)
[19:58] <neuro> no cheaty!
[19:58] <diddledan> the italian job 2.0
[19:59] <neuro> *ding*
[19:59] <neuro> winner
[19:59] <diddledan> wow
[19:59] <diddledan> good guess
[19:59] <mungbean> ther's a IJ2?
[19:59] <neuro> the reboot
[19:59] <mungbean> ugh hate hollywood
[19:59] <diddledan> mungbean: remake
[19:59] <shauno> it wasn't called 2, but .. yeah
[19:59] <neuro> with marky mark and whats her face theron
[19:59] <neuro> and THE STATHAM
[20:00] <shauno> with americans and germinis :(
[20:00] <neuro> germinis? :))))
[20:00] <neuro> like it
[20:00] <shauno> although they did include one scene with an actual mini
[20:00] <neuro> aye, near the start
[20:00] <neuro> when she's boosting about philly being a crazy driver
[20:01] <neuro> DOMINO'S REALTIME ORDER TRACKER ENGAGED!
[20:01] <shauno> I was thinking about the safecracker showing up in a lil red one
[20:01] <neuro> yes
[20:01] <neuro> that's the same scene i was talking about
[20:01] <diddledan> lol @ that img - they've got a command "DWORD PTR"
[20:01] <neuro> i hate to admit it ... i actually liked the reboot
[20:01] <neuro> remake
[20:01] <neuro> whatever
[20:01] <shauno> it wasn't terrible.  it just wasn't the italian job
[20:01] <neuro> no
[20:01] <neuro> true
[20:02] <diddledan> the problem was.. america
[20:02] <neuro> if they took out the line "we'll do it like the italian job" and changed the minis for something else, it could have been called anything
[20:02] <diddledan> if america didn't exist it would have been fine
[20:02] <diddledan> no american actors, and it would have actually been in italy
[20:02] <neuro> not sure the original would have existed :)
[20:03] <shauno> reminds me, my old mini's being entered in an event that's aimed at the new minis :D
[20:03] <shauno> http://www.minionthemack.com .. my mother's taking my 1974.  she's totally gonna confuse the yanks
[20:03] <neuro> i misread that url
[20:03] <neuro> i was like "who's Minion the Mack?"
[20:04] <diddledan> too much pixar for you
[20:04] <neuro> wut
[20:04] <ali1234> what do you mean "misread", that is what it says
[20:05] <neuro> diddledan: you know despicable me has nothing to do with pixar, right? :)
[20:05] <mungbean> my christmas tree died this week :(
[20:05] <mungbean> forgot to water it
[20:05] <diddledan> really? it's not a pixar?
[20:05] <diddledan> dreamworks then?
[20:05] <neuro> you're mocking me, aren't you?
[20:05] <shauno> I just can't wait for the pics.  they're handing out antenna flags to the entrants.  my mini doesn't have an antenna.  or radio.  or .. anything it didn't need
[20:06] <diddledan> shauno: bricks for wheels?
[20:06] <neuro> diddledan: illumination entertainment
[20:06] <shauno> nah. it needs wheels :)
[20:06] <neuro> part of Universal
[20:06] <diddledan> I've not heard of them
[20:06] <neuro> founded by the guy who used to be in charge of Fox Animation
[20:07] <diddledan> shauno: reverse gear?
[20:07] <ali1234> any two bit movie studio can make a 3d animated film these days
[20:07] <ali1234> it's no longer difficult nor considered risky
[20:07] <shauno> diddledan: if you can find it
[20:07] <diddledan> not any two bit studio can make a good one tho
[20:07] <neuro> yeah, that
[20:07] <neuro> same can be said of live action movies too now
[20:08] <neuro> anyone with a decent hd camcorder and final cut pro can make a movie
[20:08] <diddledan> can I? sweet
[20:08] <ali1234> well, making a good movie is more about having a good script
[20:08] <neuro> cha ching
[20:08] <ali1234> which to be honest is more likely to happen when you don't have a massive studio lots of meddling execs
[20:09] <diddledan> sharknado is totally one to look out for
[20:09] <neuro> i can't wait to see this though
[20:09] <neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Umbrella_(2013_film)
[20:09] <diddledan> the strapline is "enough said"
[20:09] <neuro> it looks Stunning
[20:09] <neuro> as in stunning with a capital S
[20:11] <diddledan> preview clip anyplace?
[20:12] <neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVFNRrL79w0
[20:12] <diddledan> yey, advert for sainsbury's
[20:12] <neuro> y u no adblock
[20:12] <neuro> http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/24/4457542/saschka-unseld-pixar-photorealism-and-making-the-blue-umbrella
[20:13] <neuro> oh, 1080p version of that clip in that verge article
[20:13] <neuro> and my pizza is on its way \o/
[20:14] <neuro> right troops, talk to you all later ;)
[20:21] <mungbean> http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/26/new-version-of-monopoly-that-addresses-dwindling-attention-spans-will-exclude-some-pretty-important-aspects-of-the-game/
[20:21] <mungbean> is thisreal?
[20:22] <mungbean> "Parents and children tell us they want a quick in-and-out, frictionless gaming experience"
[20:22] <mungbean> ooer missis
[20:25] <mungbean> i wonder if there has ever been a death attributed to momnopoloyl
[20:31] <diddledan> probably monopoly-related violence
[20:32] <diddledan> that damned iron hurts!
[20:32] <mungbean> do you play full scale 1:1 version?
[20:32] <mungbean> drive to mayfair..
[20:32] <diddledan> that'ld be an awesome app
[20:33] <mungbean> surprised top gear aint dunnit already
[20:35] <mungbean> man, researching my lancaster 1:72 build taking ages, havent even got it out of packet yet
[20:36] <mungbean> this is epic music http://bips.channel4.com/programmes/the-returned/articles/all/listen-to-the-returned-soundtrack
[20:38] <shauno> :/  dominos have renamed my favourite meal-deal the 'all-american special'.  now I feel fat and I'm not sure I wanna order
[20:39] <ali1234> dominos is just horrible. why would you even go there
[20:39] <diddledan> I like herbies
[20:39] <ali1234> even the local kebab shop pizzas are less revolting
[20:39] <shauno> because I can order online, which is awesome
[20:39] <mungbean> i ate pizza hut yesterday and had a dodgy  gut today
[20:40] <diddledan> shauno: does ireland have herbies - you can order online from them and they're way better than dominos
[20:40] <mungbean> papajohns?
[20:40] <shauno> they have a 'thing' here for giving all the new builds gaelic names.  which is great, but galway has a very high immigrant population (50% aren't from the county, 25% aren't from the country).
[20:40] <diddledan> yeah papajohns are good too
[20:40] <shauno> so I end up trying to give a street address that I can't pronounce, to a bangladeshi who wouldn't understand it even if I did
[20:41] <shauno> which isn't to fault them any more than it faults me.  gaelic results in some crazy streetnames
[20:41] <shauno> the last place I lived, I couldn't even spell after 3 years, let alone pronounce
[20:42] <diddledan> shauno: try my surname :-p
[20:42] <diddledan> mind you, my surname is quite sane compared to irish
[20:42] <shauno> eh, I've had that one figured out ever since that flamboyant interior designer showed up on TV
[20:43] <shauno> I Think there was even one in harry potter.  it's not actually an uncommon name.  it's just rather welsh
[20:43] <diddledan> welsh is awesome
[20:44] <shauno> I won't go there :)
[20:44] <diddledan> too many sheep?
[20:44] <shauno> I'm still scarred from living on the wrong side of the hill, and only being able to receive s4c
[20:45] <shauno> when all of school was talking about Friends, and mine was dubbed in nonsense
[20:45] <diddledan> lol
[20:45] <diddledan> pobol y cwm is where's it's at now
[20:46] <diddledan> lass from torchwood is in that
[20:46] <diddledan> she's hawt in a welsh sort of way
[20:46] <shauno> dominos have forgotten my address :(
[20:46] <diddledan> \o/
[20:46] <diddledan> that's impressive
[20:46] <shauno> it's not.  now I have to go outside and find out what it is :(
[20:47] <diddledan> lol
[20:48] <diddledan> you'll get acosted by a garda and have to admit that you have no idea where you live. they might plop you in an asylum for that
[20:50] <shauno> seriously, I hate these things that try to match you against the post office db
[20:50] <shauno> if I spell it with an 'a' it thinks I'm in leitrim, if I spell it with an á it thinks I'm dublin.  I'm neither
[20:51] <diddledan> you got the wrong á
[20:51] <shauno> don't even
[20:51] <diddledan> and I just had to go on a hunting mission for that one
[20:52] <diddledan> aparently it's alt_gr+;, a
[20:52] <shauno> another reason I <3 my weirdo keyboard layout
[20:52] <shauno> I need things like č far too often.  I need some sensible deadkeys
[20:52] <diddledan> what layout do you use?
[20:53] <diddledan> if you say dvorak I might have to punch you
[20:54] <shauno> apple's "international english", which is basically US english on an iso (vs ansi) layout.  but with a fantastic selection of deadkeys hiding behind Alt
[20:54] <diddledan> aah
[20:54] <diddledan> yeah apple's british english is seriously limited in terms of deadkeys
[20:55] <shauno> since I need to type slovak quite often, and romanian less often but still too often, they're handy
[20:55] <shauno> some odd characters like ţ are nary to be seen on a UK layout
[20:55] <diddledan> ṭ
[20:56] <diddledan> nope
[20:56] <shauno> but like this, cedilla (like the c in français) is a deadkey
[20:56] <diddledan> hmm.. how does one do that on ubuntu?
[20:56] <diddledan> (I'm using ubuntu's mac layout)
[20:56] <shauno> honestly, that's one of the big reasons I don't use it on the desktop.  after 3 days of trying to smash my face against xkbd I gave up
[20:56] <diddledan> which isn't the same as real mac layout
[20:57] <diddledan> ţ
[20:57] <diddledan> alt_gr+=, t for that
[20:58] <shauno> but where do you put thorns then?
[20:58] <diddledan> all the european addons to letters must be on the symbol keys near the enter key
[20:58] <shauno> ah, I missed the comma
[20:58] <diddledan> the comma was a separator
[20:59] <shauno> I thought you meant alt+t, which is þ on mine
[20:59] <diddledan> to indicate that alt_gr+= is separate from t
[20:59] <shauno> but this is why I like apple's take on it.  they're not just all crammed in there.  there's actually some logic
[20:59] <diddledan> alt+t = ŧ
[20:59] <shauno> cedilla is alt+c.  so for ç, it's alt+c, c.  for ţ, it's alt+c, t.
[21:00] <diddledan> yeah, I like that from apple
[21:00] <shauno> for čžš, it's alt+v.  again, the same shape as the diacritic
[21:00] <diddledan> the accents make sense
[21:00] <shauno> I'm not very good at foreignese.  I need all the help I can get
[21:00] <diddledan> alt+e for ´
[21:01] <diddledan> alt+u for ¨
[21:01] <diddledan> apple's way makes so much more sense
[21:01] <shauno> alt+u is an odd one.  on one hand it makes sense because we've all seen it on ü.  on the other hand, I only ever need it on ö for slovak
[21:02] <diddledan> I like that they give you a hint as to what diacritic you've selected before you put the letter with it
[21:03] <shauno> either way, trying to re-learn them bites.  and trying to rename them bites moar.
[21:07] <shauno> the best way I can explain it is trying to use an azerty keyboard.  they're all there.  and you can find them easy enough.  but you can't remap your muscle-memory.  typing is measured in expletives-per-minute
[21:07] <diddledan> I wonder if I won the eurolottery
[21:08] <HoT|2fC^> Do you guys know if I can copy files from my doom3 disks ? to /usr/local/games/doom3 ?
[21:08] <HoT|2fC^> there cdrom and I want to install it over SSH
[21:09] <HoT|2fC^> I have the disks an can put them in the server 1-by-1 so I can ssh it maybe  and copy over files I need to /usr/local/games/doom3/base/
[21:09] <HoT|2fC^> but via Terminal :) thans.
[21:10] <diddledan> o_O
[21:10] <shauno> easy answer is yes, but I've no idea where doom3 expects to find them
[21:11] <shauno> scp is the tool you're looking for though.  something like scp *wad hostname:/where/you/want/them
[21:11] <HoT|2fC^> So when my doom 3 disc is in the rom cant I just copy over files I need to dir's ?
[21:11] <HoT|2fC^> ah nice ok :)
[21:11] <HoT|2fC^> can I upload them via windows ?
[21:12] <shauno> (or more likely, just scp *wad hostname:   they'll land in your home folder, since you'll probably want sudo to move them into somewhere else)
[21:12] <diddledan> nice.. drwho 50th is going to be worldwide simulcast
[21:12] <shauno> there does exist winscp, but I'm less familiar with it.  the same logic, I can't spoonfeed the UI though
[21:12] <shauno> it does what it says on the can, I just don't know where the buttons are :)
[21:12] <HoT|2fC^> ah ok shauno
[21:14] <shauno> (not trying to be funny; I know it works because I've told customers to use it.  but I've never used it myself)
[21:33] <diddledan> typical, I had to phone for my pizza because of a "technical incident"
[21:33] <diddledan> I'm thinking the cleaner plugged the vacuum into the ups feed
[21:34] <diddledan> shauno: how much do you hate vacuum cleaners in datacentres?! :-p
[21:35] <shauno> hah, actually, our biggest problem with that is an american "big box store"
[21:35] <shauno> they have one unit in each store, but something like 7,000 stores
[21:36] <shauno> and obviously retail staff, not tech staff
[21:37] <shauno> so that's always our first step with them.  go check all the orange outlets, then visit the front panel and tell me what it says
[21:38] <diddledan> it invariably says "overload", right? :-p
[21:38] <shauno> heh, yeah.  bypass :/
[21:38] <diddledan> or "you knackered my batteries"
[21:39] <shauno> (that shouldn't cause issues, just feed the load utility input.  but if you just get a call for "it's beeping", that's what they've done)
[21:39] <shauno> and it's not the vacuum.  it's that big whirly gizmo they use to buff the floors
[21:39] <diddledan> I've got my own ups now - an APC smart-ups 750
[21:39] <shauno> (except for one time, where it was actually a deer.  I have a video of that somewhere)
[21:39] <diddledan> those whirly things are evil
[21:40] <diddledan> a deer?!
[21:40] <diddledan> lmao
[21:40] <shauno> yes.  a deer.  entered the store, ran around like it lost its mind, and then faceplanted a 20k UPS
[21:40] <diddledan> eejit
[21:40] <shauno> it actually wrote off the frame, and carried on running
[21:40] <shauno> (the deer running, not the UPS)
[21:40] <diddledan> they're pretty strong creatures
[21:41] <shauno> the UPS was actually fine though.  it just needed a new chassis.  which is a baddie, since the backplane isn't a module, it's part of the frame
[21:42] <shauno> I'm actually suprised how well the big ones do.  I came across one in new orleans, with a note against it to say it was banned from all service agreements and warranty repairs.  because it'd been completely submerged during katrina
[21:43] <diddledan> still working?
[21:43] <shauno> they're still using it, we just can't honour a warranty on that
[21:43] <diddledan> lmao
[21:43] <diddledan> impressive
[21:45] <shauno> poor dominos guy.  "I'm at number 3.  where's number 2?"  welcome to Ireland, man
[21:46] <diddledan> ouch
[21:46] <diddledan> poor guy
[21:46] <diddledan> so.. where _is_ number 2 compared to 3?
[21:46] <shauno> I hated that on my last street.  there was four different number 5's
[21:46] <diddledan> wtf
[21:46] <shauno> it's a little culdesac off the main road
[21:46] <shauno> 2 is actually on the main road :)
[21:47] <diddledan> that makes as much sense as sharknado
[21:47] <shauno> the last place, they had a thing for knocking down houses that had big gardens, and seeing how many more houses they could fit in the garden
[21:47] <shauno> so you'd have # (name of development), name of street
[21:47] <diddledan> *ding* twice in one day, totally scored on the irrelevant reference count!
[21:48] <shauno> so we had 5, name of street.  5, suncourt, name of street.  5 aisling court, name of street, and one or two more
[21:48] <diddledan> that's nucking futs
[21:49] <diddledan> though it's the kind of thing that britain is doing now, too
[21:49] <shauno> it wouldn't be so bad, but their system that tries to match us against an post's db likes to junk 'spare' words
[21:49] <shauno> so "5 suncourt, name of street" would be labelled on the box as "5, name of street".  and then the poor chap has to phone me
[21:49] <diddledan> tech. who'd trust it
[21:50] <shauno> this is why we need postcodes
[21:50] <shauno> (last I heard, they're planned for 2017)
[21:50] <diddledan> y'all don't have postcodes?
[21:50] <shauno> dublin has postcodes
[21:50] <diddledan> there's a lot of ireland that isn't dublin
[21:50] <shauno> indeed
[21:51] <shauno> on that one, my pet peeve.  ryanair's website demands a postcode.  an irish company.  demands a postcode.
[21:51] <diddledan> lmao
[21:52] <diddledan> htf did they manage to duck that one up?!
[21:52] <shauno> ryanair is like murphy's law - with wings
[21:52] <diddledan> http://i2.wp.com/www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/chair.jpg?resize=600%2C857
[21:52] <diddledan> random meme
[21:53] <diddledan> there's a reason murphy's law was named after an irishman, I guess :-)
[21:53] <shauno> reminds me of my roomba getting stuck under my rack :/
[21:54] <shauno> oh, and on the UPS topic since you went there.  I no longer do tech support \o/
[21:56] <diddledan> oooh
[21:56] <shauno> there was some fantastic catty infighting when someone told the US that if they wanted us to keep covering their weekends, they needed to be introduced to our budget.  but the end result, I support network integration for project managers & field techs, but no more end-user support for north america
[21:58] <shauno> which is just amazing.  end-user support needs a special breed.  and I ain't it
[21:59] <shauno> I have various short-circuits between my brain and my mouth.  I once told a customer "don't worry, I'm sure your mother still loves you"
[22:00] <diddledan> heh, I'll bet they loved that one
[22:00] <popey> moo
[22:00] <AlanBell> o/ popey
[22:00] <diddledan> allo popey
[22:01] <AlanBell> edge thing is going rather well still isn't it
[22:01] <shauno> I had a customer big-red-button.  I was trying to explain to him that it had only affected that room, we showed 19 out of 20 green.   my mouth picked up the ball and just ... ran with it
[22:05] <popey> AlanBell: yeah, enjoying having the indicator on my desktop
[22:09] <diddledan> I wonder what the official response will be if it fails to reach 32m
[22:10] <shauno> the page says they'll concentrate on other handsets if it doesn't get there.  so I imagine just that, padded out with some "we had to try" stuff
[22:12] <AlanBell> diddledan: I imagine they will talk a lot about all the crowdfunding records that were broken (especially if it tops out over $11M which looks reasonably likely)
[22:13] <HoT|2fC^> mmm when I use WinSCP, and connect ok... and when I find the dir's I want to copy files to I get this message, "scp: /usr/local/games/doom3/base/pak000.pk4: Permission denied"
[22:13] <AlanBell> and they will have plausibly good data on what price the market will bear for a high end configuration ($600 seems popular, $700 is a bit of a struggle)
[22:14] <AlanBell> and hopefully they will be compiling a list of categories of people who were unable to take part in that sales method
[22:14] <shauno> HoT|2fC^: most likely you'll want to copy them to your home folder, and then ssh in and move them to the right place
[22:14] <HoT|2fC^> shauno, ouch sounds painful :o
[22:14] <shauno> HoT|2fC^: chances are your normal user doesn't have write-access to /usr/local, so you'll need an intermediary step so you can use sudo mv later
[22:15] <popey> \o/ boarding
[22:15] <popey> diddledan: official response is we don't make the device
[22:15] <AlanBell> have a good flight
[22:15] <HoT|2fC^> popey, have a gooden popes!
[22:16] <HoT|2fC^> shauno, ah ok I see now :) I am copying to /home/doom3/ now :)
[22:16] <HoT|2fC^> so how do I get write-access to /usr/local?
[22:17] <AlanBell> I expect it will be quite encouraging stuff for someone else to repurpose a device if it doesn't quite get there
[22:17] <diddledan> long answer is you don't, short answer is sudo - ironically the long answer is the one you should be listening to
[22:18] <ali1234> for <40k sales?
[22:18] <diddledan> aparently it's sysadmin day?
[22:19] <ali1234> the lumia line has sold several million and it is still considered a failure
[22:19] <AlanBell> there are oodles of android handsets out there, with varying sales volumes
[22:20] <ali1234> i doubt there are any with such low volume
[22:21] <shauno> it wouldn't be crazy for someone to pick it up as a differentiator though
[22:21] <ali1234> in fact this is probably the first time someone has attempted to sell such a small number of devices
[22:21] <ali1234> mobiles anyway
[22:22] <AlanBell> well if you are aiming to sell a small number of devices, indiegogo is the way I would do that to limit the market as much as possible!
[22:22] <ali1234> yeah. the trouble is it won't "prove" anything
[22:22] <shauno> especially in the android market where the middle-ground is awefully same-ish.  if it gives someone a tick-box they can hit that no-one else does, they might tick it just to have something new to claim
[22:23] <ali1234> what does it really do that nobody else does, except for the built in desktop stuff, which has already been proven to be something most consumers don't want?
[22:23] <AlanBell> if someone has an android board developed, that they can pump out there as a PR thing to gain some coverage, perhaps in the angular case, perhaps in whatever it is in, they might do it
[22:25] <shauno> well they could run with ubuntu out of the box.  that'd be something you can't already buy on the highstreet
[22:25] <AlanBell> now this http://shop.geeksphone.com/en/phones/8-peak.html tempts me
[22:26] <ali1234> "it runs ubuntu!" isn't a feature that many people care about
[22:26] <ali1234> what does this ubuntu thing allow me to do?
[22:26] <diddledan> which is a shame
[22:27] <shauno> I'm not sure it has to be.  most people don't care about fingerprint readers.  it still gets bolted on there so they can add another bullet point
[22:27] <diddledan> I don't get the mozilla concept at all
[22:28] <diddledan> it's a browser, and that's all it is. apple tried that and failed
[22:28] <diddledan> I'm not sure the world has moved on from that point very far yet
[22:28] <ali1234> oh it has, massively
[22:28] <shauno> chrome tried it and are still building on it
[22:28] <diddledan> everyone's about "what apps can I install"
[22:29] <AlanBell> with the mozilla thing, HTML 5 apps are native. There is no QML/Dalvik/C#/objective C stuff
[22:29] <ali1234> that's why sailfish will have android compat
[22:29] <ali1234> HTML5 can never be native
[22:29] <HoT|2fC^> Now I have copied files to my /home//dir/xx
[22:29] <ali1234> until someone finds a way to compile it to machine code
[22:30] <HoT|2fC^> how do I move them via ssh? to /usr/local/games/doom3
[22:30] <diddledan> ali1234: that's my point
[22:30] <diddledan> ali1234: I meant the world hasn't moved on from the "browser doesn't work" point
[22:30] <ali1234> and QML isn't really that different to HTML5 either. they just have a different set of widgets that you can use
[22:30] <AlanBell> HoT|2fC^: if it is a single user computer you could chown that directory to yourself if you want to write to it a lot
[22:31] <AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, but I can't serve that up from a server
[22:31] <ali1234> actually you can
[22:31] <ali1234> there is even a wrapper that will serve QML apps to any HTML5 browser
[22:31] <ali1234> there's one of those for Gtk too actually
[22:31] <AlanBell> interesting
[22:32] <ali1234> and horrifying
[22:32] <diddledan> so qml is the new "what mozilla did"
[22:32] <diddledan> I can't think what they called the mozilla thing
[22:32] <AlanBell> the return of XUL
[22:32] <ali1234> everything has so many layers of abstraction that there is almost no differentiation any more
[22:32] <diddledan> xul
[22:32] <diddledan> yeah
[22:32] <diddledan>  that's it
[22:32]  * AlanBell has a big fat book about xul
[22:32] <shauno> that's pretty much it, no?  if firefox is the OS, then a firefox addon is native?
[22:32] <ali1234> you can't even put a window on the screen without invoking 3 layers of runtime translation
[22:33] <ali1234> firefox addons are written in javascript
[22:33] <diddledan> shauno: not quite, becuase the firefox addon is written in js
[22:33] <ali1234> a plugin would be native though
[22:33] <diddledan> shauno: js doesn't compile down to native code
[22:34] <diddledan> I don't believe the firefox os does plugins tho?
[22:34] <ali1234> probably not
[22:35] <diddledan> lol @ http://shop.geeksphone.com/en/4-accessories
[22:36] <diddledan> "wonderful accessories for your device"... "there are no products in this category"
[22:36] <AlanBell> yup, it is early stuff, that is kind of a dev phone outlet
[22:36] <HoT|2fC^> im to confused :(
[22:37] <HoT|2fC^> I have files in /home/username/doom3/ and want to copy all 5 files to /usr/local/games/doom3/
[22:37] <HoT|2fC^> How can I do this? with commands I tried and it says no permission
[22:37]  * AlanBell is very tempted, they even appear to know the tax status of what they are selling which is more than Ubuntu/Indiegogo do
[22:37] <diddledan> AlanBell: lol
[22:38] <diddledan> what kind of schedule are geeksphone running for the peak+?
[22:38] <AlanBell> HoT|2fC^: you don't have permission. You need to use sudo to do the copy, or use sudo to change the owner
[22:38] <AlanBell> diddledan: they sold out of the peak, peak+ is September
[22:38] <HoT|2fC^> I did sudo and nothing happens I just get _ blink
[22:38] <HoT|2fC^> How do I change the owner using sudo?
[22:39] <AlanBell> what is your username HoT|2fC^?
[22:39] <diddledan> it's actually pretty well specced for such a cheap phoen
[22:39] <ali1234> geeksphone is so unlikely to succeed it's not even worth making snarky comments about it
[22:39] <HoT|2fC^> AlanBell, username
[22:39]  * AlanBell guesses it is "martin"
[22:39] <diddledan> snapdragon s4 1.2GHz*2 is impressive at that price
[22:39] <HoT|2fC^> AlanBell, yeah :o
[22:40] <AlanBell> so sudo chown -R martin: /usr/local/games/doom3
[22:40] <AlanBell> that will change the owner (and group) of that folder and everything below it to yourself
[22:40] <ali1234> the only two you should consider buying are sailfish (because it's made by people who know what they are doing) and ubuphone (because they have the sheer bloody-mindedness to carry on no matter what)
[22:41] <diddledan> I don't know sailfish
[22:41] <AlanBell> that means it will have the same permissions as your home directory has, it is yours to play with
[22:41] <HoT|2fC^> thanks AlanBell :)
[22:42] <AlanBell> geeksphone is not that much more than an official development phone for firefoxOS
[22:42] <ali1234> yeah... you shouldn't really consider firefoxOS...
[22:44] <ali1234> HTML has been a bloated, slow, poorly designed collection of hacks and workarounds since it was invented
[22:44] <AlanBell> true
[22:44] <ali1234> and everything thy bolt on just makes it worse
[22:45] <AlanBell> trueish
[22:45] <diddledan> how many names has sailfish gone through to get to sailfish?!
[22:45] <diddledan> maemo, moblin, meego
[22:45] <diddledan> and now sailfish
[22:46] <ali1234> maemo and moblin were two totally different thing which merged to become meego
[22:46] <ali1234> meego then became tizen
[22:46] <diddledan> forgot about tizen
[22:46] <ali1234> sailfish uses mer which is a fork of meego
[22:47] <ali1234> well, basically meego split into the community (mer) and the linux foundation (tizen)
[22:47] <ali1234> and then nokia left entirely and fired all their staff who formed sailfish
[22:47] <AlanBell> so that is 6 names that nobody outside the industry has ever heard of
[22:47] <ali1234> yeah
[22:48] <ali1234> but since nobody has heard of them it doesn't matter if there is 1 or 100
[22:49] <diddledan> I don't get the difference between mer and nemo
[22:49] <AlanBell> so, can I buy a handset with sailfish?
[22:49] <AlanBell> oh, and jolla, that is 7 names nobody has heard of
[22:51] <diddledan> AlanBell: then there's plasma active (kde?) and cordia and seadot
[22:51] <diddledan> in addition to nemo and mer
[22:51] <diddledan> and sailfish
[22:51] <AlanBell> wow
[22:51] <ali1234> no
[22:51] <ali1234> all of those run on top of mer
[22:52] <ali1234> jolla is the name of the company that makes sailfish
[22:52] <diddledan> see, it doesn't even make sense to us technophiles
[22:52] <HoT|2fC^> wow my first dedicated server now up and running on Doom3 !! first ever Enterprise one tho, it's always been on my PC :D
[22:52] <HoT|2fC^> Awesome guys, thanks a bunch.
[22:52] <AlanBell> huh, UK based in part, at least the mer thing has UK contact details
[22:52] <diddledan> doom 3 running on a server?!
[22:52]  * HoT|2fC^ off to play some Doom
[22:52] <diddledan> why?
[22:52] <ali1234> mer has uk contact details? that's news to me
[22:53] <HoT|2fC^> diddledan, Thats my hole point in doing this server \o/
[22:53] <HoT|2fC^> To host games.
[22:53] <ali1234> anyway the mer lead developer works for jolla now
[22:53] <AlanBell> http://www.merproject.org/about.html
[22:53] <ali1234> ah yeah lbt is a brit
[22:54] <diddledan> that's brave, listing a mobile phone number is asking for an aussie to phone at midday
[22:55] <ali1234> anyway, sailfish is like unity, mer is like ubuntu, cordia, nemo, seadot are like Xubuntu, Kubuntu etc
[22:55] <AlanBell> aussies are surfing at midday
[22:55] <diddledan> good point
[22:56] <diddledan> maybe when they get off their high boards
[22:56] <diddledan> or should that be get off their high white horses
[22:59] <ali1234> oh and the other thing of course is that libhybris, which enables ubuntu-touch at all, was developed originally by the mer project
[22:59] <ali1234> i think firefoxOS uses it too
[23:03] <HoT|2fC^> mmm dunno if anyone knows why when I close PuTTY it closes my doom 3 game server?
[23:03] <AlanBell> heh, because your ssh connection is the parent process
[23:03] <AlanBell> easy way is to use byobu, that gives you a persistent shell
[23:04] <AlanBell> so log in as normal, type byobu
[23:04] <AlanBell> then run your server, you can then break the connection, log in again, type byobu and it will reconnect you to the window you were on, with your server still running
[23:05] <HoT|2fC^> on windows? :o
[23:05] <HoT|2fC^> I do this in SSH AlanBell
[23:05] <AlanBell> yeah, byobu runs on the server side
[23:05] <diddledan> I'm still unclear as to what "game server" is referring in this case
[23:05] <AlanBell> diddledan: it is a central process that tracks the xy coordinates of each player
[23:06] <AlanBell> and serves out the map to the game clients
[23:06] <diddledan> AlanBell: yes, usually you'd be right, but I'm thinking not in this instance
[23:07] <diddledan> mostly because the cd/dvd has been copied to /usr/local/games/doom3
[23:07] <AlanBell> isn't that just copying the map there? presume that has to be on the server
[23:07] <diddledan> maybe
[23:07] <HoT|2fC^> mmm
[23:07] <diddledan> as I say, I'm unclear
[23:07] <AlanBell> or do all the clients have the map and the server just bounces coordinates of players and bullets?
[23:07] <HoT|2fC^> Thats why its saved yes to /usr/local/games/doom3
[23:07] <AlanBell> !byobu
[23:08] <HoT|2fC^> lol !byobu
[23:08] <AlanBell> wake up bot
[23:08] <diddledan> what does byobu actually stand for, if anything?
[23:08] <AlanBell> !screen
[23:08] <AlanBell> diddledan: it is a japanese room divider
[23:08] <diddledan> bring your own blinking updates
[23:08] <AlanBell> or a screen :)
[23:08] <diddledan> aah
[23:09] <AlanBell> http://int.kateigaho.com/mar04/images/antique-byobu.jpg
[23:10] <diddledan> nice!
[23:12] <diddledan> I'm failing to find the scrollback keys for a byobu sub-window
[23:13] <AlanBell> page up/down
[23:13] <HoT|2fC^> damn I get nothing but colors now when I type byobu
[23:13] <HoT|2fC^> :o
[23:13] <AlanBell> oh, sorry, that is for irssi in byobu
[23:13] <AlanBell> F7 gets you to scrollback mode
[23:13] <diddledan> aha, thankyou
[23:13] <AlanBell> HoT|2fC^: you should get some colourful numbers and stuff in the bottom right
[23:14] <diddledan> wow, it saves a TON of scrollback
[23:14] <HoT|2fC^> yeah I do AlanBell
[23:14] <AlanBell> ok, and you have a $ prompt as well
[23:14] <HoT|2fC^> But hows this going to keep my server on? if I shutdown my PC now it closes PuTTY and my server then goes down...
[23:14] <HoT|2fC^> I want it on 24/7
[23:14] <AlanBell> type something at that $ prompt
[23:14] <AlanBell> like "hello I am here"
[23:14] <AlanBell> then close putty
[23:14] <AlanBell> then open putty and log on again
[23:15] <AlanBell> and type byobu
[23:15] <AlanBell> you should see the text you typed before
[23:16] <AlanBell> oh, I appear to be in a timezone where it is 01:16, I should go to sleep.
[23:16] <AlanBell> night all o/
[23:16] <diddledan> ok, so I'm running byobu locally - have been since yesterday when I discovered it. I'm wondering what would happen if I wanted to run byobu on a remote system too
[23:16] <diddledan> nn AlanBell
[23:17] <diddledan> I guess you're in mainland europe
[23:17] <HoT|2fC^> nn mate thanks for help!
[23:17] <HoT|2fC^> so will this stop my dedicated game server from shutting down ??
[23:18] <ali1234> it will only stop it shutting down when you log out
[23:18] <ali1234> it won't automatically restart it if it crashes so it is probably not what you want
[23:18] <ali1234> what you want instead is an upstart script
[23:18] <ali1234> that is rather complicated though
[23:22] <HoT|2fC^> yeah I know :(
[23:22] <HoT|2fC^> I dont get how when its loaded an I close puTTY it shuts the server down :(
[23:22] <HoT|2fC^> must be away of keeping it on while I turn off SSH
[23:23] <ali1234> yeah
[23:23] <ali1234> there is
[23:23] <ali1234> alanbell told you it
[23:23] <ali1234> but this is not a good way to run a server
[23:23] <HoT|2fC^> I see
[23:23] <HoT|2fC^> using this byobu?
[23:23] <ali1234> yes
[23:24] <HoT|2fC^> so id open another puTTY? login then type byobu
[23:24] <HoT|2fC^> an leave that open ?
[23:24] <ali1234> no, you can close it
[23:24] <HoT|2fC^> so what about the console of the game server?
[23:24] <ali1234> it will be inside byobu
[23:25] <ali1234> when you run it again you will see it
[23:25] <HoT|2fC^> ok
[23:25] <HoT|2fC^> so if I run byobu, close the server puTTY console down > log out...
[23:25] <HoT|2fC^> it will be on still? then I just close byobu an its still up an not disconnecing my players?
[23:28] <diddledan> has anybody tried googling "scotland's national animal" lately?
[23:28] <diddledan> apparently it's a unicorn
[23:28] <diddledan> you'd expect it to be a deer, or a haggis
[23:36] <shauno> you can't take photos of haggis.  it's against the rules
[23:37] <ali1234> wow, i just learned that a jackalope is not a real animal :S
[23:43] <diddledan> you mean the J series was illegal?!
[23:43] <diddledan> the rules stipulate that only real but obscure animals be used
[23:50]  * HoT|2fC^ is so confused on how to keep a processe up and running once closing SSH (PuTTY)
[23:52] <ali1234> it's perfectly natural
[23:57] <Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: it's pretty easy, you need to use screen
[23:57] <Azelphur> ever heard of it?
[23:57] <Azelphur> (well, you don't /need/ to use screen, there are other ways, this is one of many)
[23:57] <diddledan> Azelphur: he's been advised byobu
[23:57] <Azelphur> oh
[23:58] <ali1234> Azelphur: you don't run your server in screen do you? please tell me you don't...
[23:58] <Azelphur> I haven't ever used byobu in all honesty, I've always been a screen person
[23:58] <Azelphur> ali1234: srcds? yes why not?
[23:58] <Azelphur> that's what 99.9% of the planet does
[23:58] <ali1234> :(
[23:58] <Azelphur> how would you do it?
[23:58] <ali1234> i would write an upstart script
[23:58] <Azelphur> ali1234: how would you replace screen -X stuff?
[23:59] <ali1234> it would log to a file
[23:59] <Azelphur> that ... doesn't replace screen -X stuff
[23:59] <ali1234> what does screen -X do again?
[23:59] <Azelphur> screen -X stuff (stuff is actually the command) it "stuffs" stuff into stdin
[23:59] <Azelphur> so I can send commands to the server
[23:59] <ali1234> those things have an interactive command line?
[23:59] <Azelphur> yup