[07:52] <_mup_> Bug #780334 was filed: Allow formula to specify min number of instances <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/780334 >
[08:55] <kim0> niemeyer SpamapS bcsaller hazmat jimbaker` : we're having a session in an hour .. ringing a bell
[08:55] <niemeyer> kim0: Thanks, we'll be there


[01:19]  * thumper does a little scream
[01:52] <thumper> wallyworld_: ping
[01:52] <wallyworld_> hi
[01:52] <thumper> wallyworld_: will the world explode if I return nil for hardware characteristics in start instance?
[01:52] <wallyworld_> no, but it would be nice to have
[01:53] <wallyworld_> i think nil is ok, but not sure if an empty struct is preferred
[01:53] <wallyworld_> let me check
[01:53] <thumper> kk
[01:54] <wallyworld_> nil is ok
[01:56] <thumper> wallyworld_: ok, ta
[02:53] <thumper> hmm...
[03:05] <thumper> stabby
[03:05] <thumper> stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby v
[03:06]  * bigjools sends calm thoughts across The Ditch
[03:24]  * thumper scratches his head
[03:25] <thumper> jam1: btw, your lxc upgrade check breaks all containers
[03:25] <thumper> jam1: we need to be smarter about them
[03:25] <thumper> jam1: I'm still working out how
[03:34] <thumper> more stabbies
[03:34] <thumper> wtf...
[03:42] <thumper> wallyworld_: we need public address and private address on state.Machine ASAP
[03:42] <thumper> this is driving me crazy
[03:55]  * thumper wonders wtf is going on here
[04:19]  * thumper thinks
[05:38] <wallyworld_> thumper: sorry, i didn't see your message before. i'll talk to martin tonight
[05:38] <thumper> wallyworld_: sure, I felt I was all alone again
[05:39] <wallyworld_> sometimes i don't notice the irc window blink
[05:39] <thumper> :)
[05:39] <wallyworld_> maybe i need two monitors
[05:39] <thumper> I'm this |..| close to getting the local provider working
[05:39] <wallyworld_> awsome
[05:39] <thumper> I found a major(ish) problem though
[05:39] <thumper> which I'm simmering on
[05:40] <wallyworld_> which is?
[05:40] <thumper> I need the storage provider to be running on machine-0 all the time
[05:40] <thumper> and to refactor how the environment gets created
[05:41] <thumper> I want to talk to fwereade about it when he starts
[05:41] <thumper> to get his thoughts on the best way to do this
[05:41] <wallyworld_> by all the time, you mean it is kicked off when juju bootstrap is run?
[05:42] <thumper> yes, and stays running
[05:42] <thumper> so we'd have: mongod, machine-agent, storage provider
[05:42] <thumper> to deploy a charm
[05:42] <thumper> the uniter accesses the storage of the environment
[05:42] <thumper> which isn't listening :)
[05:43] <thumper> or at least, isn't listening in the right place at the right time for the uniter
[05:44] <wallyworld_> yay
[05:44] <wallyworld_> i guess it was all different in py juju
[05:44] <thumper> probably
[08:04] <rogpeppe> morning all!
[08:11] <TheMue> rogpeppe: heya, how have your holidays been?
[08:11] <jam1> hi rogpeppe, good to have you back
[08:11] <rogpeppe> TheMue: great thanks!
[08:12] <rogpeppe> TheMue: we had excellent weather in Norway
[08:12] <rogpeppe> jam: thanks
[08:13] <rogpeppe> i've barely glanced at what's been going on while i've been away. any particularly significant mail threads/changes of direction  i should be aware of?
[08:13] <TheMue> rogpeppe: sounds good. and Norway itself?
[08:13] <rogpeppe> TheMue: really good. expensive though!
[08:14] <rogpeppe> TheMue: particularly alcohol
[08:14] <TheMue> rogpeppe: oh, didn't know. but I remember they have high taxes there.
[08:14] <rogpeppe> TheMue: yeah. beer is about 8-12 euros / 500cl
[08:15] <TheMue> rogpeppe: if it's only alcohol it doesn't hurt you. you surely never drink. :D
[08:15] <rogpeppe> TheMue: surely not
[08:15] <rogpeppe> TheMue: :-)
[08:15] <TheMue> rogpeppe: ouch, that's really expensive
[08:15] <rogpeppe> TheMue: we bought our full quota from the duty free on the way in
[08:16] <rogpeppe> TheMue: 6 bottles of wine and 8 bottles of beer :-)
[08:16] <TheMue> rogpeppe: clever
[08:16] <rogpeppe> TheMue: mandatory :-)
[08:16] <TheMue> rogpeppe: hehe, indeed
[08:18] <TheMue> rogpeppe: regarding the project everything went on fine. the first week a bit slower, as you, Dimiter and for two days me were off
[08:18] <TheMue> rogpeppe: but last week with more speed again
[08:23] <TheMue> rogpeppe: Tim and me found a bad behavior in the http package. here a request takes a Reader, but casts it into a ReadCloser and calls Close() later. this is used in the local storage. so the Seek(0, 0) when writing the fake tools fails.
[08:25] <rogpeppe> TheMue: interestin
[08:25] <rogpeppe> g
[08:25] <rogpeppe> TheMue: i can't see that that behaviour is documented
[08:25] <rogpeppe> TheMue: it's trivial to work around though
[08:28] <TheMue> rogpeppe: Tim is working on it. he stumbled about this behavior.
[08:28] <rogpeppe> TheMue: all you need to do is pass in ioutil.NopCloser(r) to NewRequest
[08:30] <rogpeppe> TheMue: presumably this is only actually a problem when the tools writing fails and is retried?
[08:30]  * rogpeppe goes to get some sun cream
[08:34] <TheMue> rogpeppe: the writing of the first tool file works, but the second file fails because the file is closed.
[09:03]  * TheMue is afk for a moment, bringing his daughter to the railway station (first single longer ride)
[09:04] <dimitern> rogpeppe: hey, welcome back!
[09:04] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yo!
[09:05] <dimitern> rogpeppe: good holiday?
[09:05] <rogpeppe> dimitern: great thanks
[09:05] <rogpeppe> dimitern: two holidays really :-)
[09:05] <dimitern> roh
[09:05] <dimitern> rogpeppe: awesome :)
[09:05] <rogpeppe> dimitern: both in norway, but the first week we rented a cabin in the south; the second we spent in oslo
[09:06] <dimitern> rogpeppe: cool and refreshing weather i presume?
[09:06] <rogpeppe> dimitern: pretty warm, particularly the second week. temp around 22-25
[09:06] <rogpeppe> dimitern: first week cooler, but we were on the sea
[09:06] <dimitern> rogpeppe: oh, compared to 32-34 here is nice
[09:06] <rogpeppe> dimitern: we were v lucky
[09:07] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yeah, perfect
[09:07] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and come back to find the garden has gone mental!
[09:07] <rogpeppe> dimitern: (in a good way)
[09:07] <dimitern> rogpeppe: :)
[10:02] <jam> rogpeppe: I think the big focus last week was that upgrading 1.10 => 1.11.2 showed lots of things broken. I think William and I have managed to track them down, I have a couple patches up for review
[10:03] <jam> We're looking to get a 1.11.3 out this week, with the hopes of it being considered a stable 1.12 with an upgrade path from 1.10
[10:03] <rogpeppe> jam: i was looking at one of your patches and trying to get my head around the underlying issues
[10:03] <jam> rogpeppe: If you need to ask questions, I can give more context
[10:04] <rogpeppe> jam: in particular i was trying to work out what permutations of versions/upgrading would cause the issues to be seen
[10:04] <rogpeppe> jam: let me go back to the CL and have another look.
[10:04] <fwereade> rogpeppe, heyhey, welcome back!
[10:04] <rogpeppe> fwereade: yo!
[10:05] <jam> rogpeppe: bootsrap with 1.10 client starting 1.10 server, upgrade using 1.11.2 (or trunk --upload-tools)
[10:05] <jam> stuff breaks
[10:05] <jam> fwereade: o/
[10:05] <fwereade> jam, heyhey
[10:05] <rogpeppe> jam: ah, yes, i saw that issue, but didn't get to the bottom of it
[10:06] <jam> fwereade:  so the good and bad bits, the good is that I have: https://code.launchpad.net/~jameinel/juju-core/api-set-creds-1199915/+merge/174620 up for review wrt bug 1199915
[10:06] <jam> the bad is that the existing bug actually means only machine-0 sort-of-works after upgrade
[10:06] <jam> because all other workers wait for the main thread to get the list of jobs from the api
[10:06] <jam> but the api can't be connected to because we didn't set the agent's password
[10:07] <jam> bug #1199915
[10:07] <jam> where did the bot go?
[10:07] <jam> _mup_: bug #1199915
[10:07] <rogpeppe> jam: launchpad says it's in the middle of an update
[10:08] <fwereade> jam, heh, LP doesn't want to talk to me
[10:08] <rogpeppe> jam: i was just trying to look at that bug
[10:08] <rogpeppe> jam: how much of these changes are temporary cruft that should go away eventually?
[10:09] <jam> rogpeppe: we generally need to come up with an answer for how we handle changing "stuff" when upgrading. Some of this will last as long as we want to be able to upgrade from 1.10
[10:09] <jam> which may be "short" depends on how long we support 1.10
[10:09] <rogpeppe> jam: yes, i wondered that.
[10:10] <rogpeppe> jam: i think we should make sure that we have comments in the code that indicates when the workaround might be removed
[10:10] <jam> rogpeppe: but generally, I don't think we've done much engineering around "binary 2.X needs these packages and this configuration that 2.X-1 didn't need, how do we configure it after upgrade" ?
[10:11] <rogpeppe> jam: yeah, that's definitely something we need to think about
[10:11] <rogpeppe> jam: packages are possibly easier than config
[10:13] <jam> rogpeppe: so *right* now agents have both a DB connection and an API one, so they can poke the DB connection directly to get their creds updated inside the db. At some point when we cut off direct DB access, upgrading from 1.10 will be infeasible (I think)
[10:14] <jam> rogpeppe: lp seems to be back up
[10:14] <jam> fwereade: ^^
[10:14] <rogpeppe> jam: we should perhaps make it so that the upgraded version sets the API passwords appropriately so that people can get there with an intermediate upgrade
[10:14] <jam> rogpeppe: which is what my patch does
[10:15] <rogpeppe> jam: ah, cool
[10:15] <jam> so you could do 1.10 => 1.12 => version-that-doesn't-have-direct-db-access
[10:15] <fwereade> jam, I'm fine saying that we only cut off direct db access for 2.0, and we only allow upgrades to 2.0 from 1.x versions that have done the requisiste juggling
[10:16] <fwereade> jam, what you said basically :)
[10:18] <jam> oddly enough on my system, "make simplify" is faster than "go fmt ./..." even though the former is passing the '-s' flag. I wonder if 'go fmt' search through the code is slower than 'find *.go'
[10:18] <jam> (1.7s vs 2.1s)
[10:25] <rogpeppe> jam: i think that might be because of an outstanding issue with the go command's package matching
[10:26] <rogpeppe> jam: try find . -name '*.go' | xargs gofmt -w
[10:26] <rogpeppe> jam: i *thought* the issue had been fixed tho
[10:27] <jam> 1.56s
[10:28] <rogpeppe> jam: the problem was that the go command scans all directories in GOPATH anyway, even if there's a fixed prefix
[11:03] <fwereade> frankban, dimitern: responded to https://codereview.appspot.com/11003044/
[11:03] <fwereade> frankban, dimitern: LGTM, but I may be missing some nuance of dimitern's thoughts
[11:04] <dimitern> fwereade, frankban: will take a look again
[11:06] <frankban> thanks fwereade and dimitern!
[11:18] <fwereade> jtv, jam: responded to https://codereview.appspot.com/11234043/
[11:27] <jam> fwereade: sure, you review all the easy ones first :)
[11:28] <fwereade> jam, apart from wallyworld's pipeline which I'm saving for after the meeting, I'm going purely by age, I thin
[11:28] <jam> fwereade, rogpeppe, dimitern, mgz, wallyworld: standup in 3 min: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f497381ca4d154890227b3b35a85a985b894b471
[11:28] <fwereade> jam, I'm on your scary one now :)
[11:28] <jam> fwereade: doesn't mean you didn't get to easy ones first
[11:28] <dimitern> frankban, fwereade: LGTM
[11:54] <rogpeppe> jam: gimme 3 minutes while i sort a couple of things out
[11:55] <jam> rogpeppe: np
[11:58] <jam> fwereade: +1 on the separate provider section, I also worry how we get a provisioner running in each provider (or does the provisioner just run at the lowe
[11:58] <rogpeppe> jam: back
[11:58] <jam> at the state server node, and just knows how to set stuff on each provisioner.)
[11:58] <jam> rogpeppe: starting
[11:59] <fwereade> jam, I am very consciously not thinking about how we fix the code for this, it's still percolating
[11:59] <fwereade> jam, I think it'll be one provisioner per provider though
[12:14] <frankban> dimitern: thanks
[12:15] <dimitern> frankban: yw
[12:18] <fwereade> jam, I think I just understood what you were saying better
[12:20] <fwereade> jam, we'll want the manager node(s) running all the provider provisioners because I Do Not Want to spread manager nodes across clouds until someone can demonstrate that it really is sane & safe to do so
[12:20] <jam> fwereade: right
[12:20] <jam> you have to have an instance running on each cloud you want to provision on isn't great
[12:20] <jam> (an instance running the jujud provisioner code)
[12:21] <fwereade> jam, can't get away with it forever, though, keeping all manager nodes in one cloud renders the whole env susceptible to failures of that cloud
[12:21] <fwereade> jam, not one to fix this year, though
[12:22]  * fwereade lunch
[12:30] <rogpeppe> TheMue: just finished meeting with jam. i've got lunch now. i'll ping you after that, if that's ok.
[12:43] <TheMue> rogpeppe: it's fine with me, yes
[13:47] <rogpeppe> TheMue: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/a969ef2b58bd85872816e26fa3574a46ef3cb428
[13:54] <fwereade> jam, https://codereview.appspot.com/11137044/ reviewed
[13:55] <jam> fwereade: so the SetPassword before setting the Config thing. We are pulling the password out of the existing conf, so we can do it again
[13:56] <jam> If we write-to-disk first, then we can't tell we need to SetPassword
[15:46] <fwereade> if anyone's wondering where dimitern is, he's had a power cut for a while now
[15:46] <mgz> how frustrating
[15:47] <mgz> I take it he's got phone and computer, just no internet?
[15:52] <fwereade> I presume he has at least some power in his battery, and yeah, he texted me
[16:15] <hazmat> what's the recommended way of getting mongodb for dev?
[16:15] <hazmat> and testing
[16:15] <hazmat> per https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1175493 the package and ppa versions don't work
[16:15] <_mup_> Bug #1175493: Tests fail using the mongo package from raring, or ppa <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1175493>
[16:16] <hazmat> nm.. the link is in the readme
[16:38] <Daviey> mgz: Is this expected? http://pb.daviey.com/wIxM/
[16:39] <mgz> Daviey: yup
[16:39] <mgz> to use --upload-tools implies you're compiling locally and want to use your own build stuff
[16:40] <mgz> arguably we want a nicer error/to hide that flag for general users
[16:40] <mgz> see bug 1135564
[16:40] <_mup_> Bug #1135564: juju bootstrap --upload-tools fails, missing dependency <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1135564>
[16:40] <Daviey> mgz: http://pb.daviey.com/wP3I/
[16:41] <Daviey> right now, i feel fubared
[16:41] <mgz> Daviey: you need to follow lp:juju-core README if you actually want to do that
[16:42] <mgz> involves getting all the source and building it
[16:42] <mgz> probably what you really want is not that flag, but to just specify our latest release binaries?
[16:45] <mgz> Daviey: what exactly are you trying to do?
[16:47] <hazmat> Daviey, unless your testing a branch/trunk.. this is probably what you want  $ juju sync-tools
[16:56] <mgz> fwereade: can you cast an eye over codereview.appspot.com/11284044 to see if you have any issues with the suggested model
[16:57] <fwereade> mgz, sorry, just going out; I've opened a tab with it and will give it proper attention later today
[16:57] <mgz> ta
[16:58] <sidnei> mramm: bug #1201503
[16:58] <_mup_> Bug #1201503: Add disk constraint <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1201503>
[16:58] <sidnei> which i believe elmo was poking  you about
[17:00] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ping
[17:00] <rogpeppe> fwereade: oops sorry, just saw you went out
[17:43] <rogpeppe> right, that's me for the day
[17:43] <rogpeppe> see y'all tomorrow
[18:10] <hazmat> are there are any known issues that cause the test suite to just hang and spin on cpu
[18:10] <hazmat> i've tried with mongo 2.2.4 from raring, and from the s3 dist of mongo 2.2.0
[20:52] <thumper> morning
[21:14] <thumper> mramm: did you want to chat at some stage?
[21:15] <mramm> thumper: sure
[21:15] <thumper> mramm: like... when?
[21:16] <mramm> I'm free now
[21:16] <mramm> and in about 2 hours
[21:17] <thumper> now is good
[21:21] <sidnei> hey thumper, i was looking at getting my feet wet with some juju-core and implement a fix for bug #1201503 but wanted some confirmation that it does make sense in the first place
[21:22] <_mup_> Bug #1201503: Add disk constraint <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1201503>
[21:52] <thumper> sidnei: hmm...
[21:52] <thumper> sidnei: I'm not entirely sure, do we have access to the amount of disk?
[21:52] <thumper> sidnei: also
[21:52] <thumper> sidnei: there are some future plans for dealing with mounting "special" block devices on cloud images
[21:52] <thumper> as this is provided by some cloud providers
[21:52] <thumper> but out of scope for right now
[21:54] <sidnei> thumper: nova flavor-list shows disk and ephemeral disk: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5878931/ in prodstack there's some custom flavors with eg 2 CPUs and 10, 20, 50, 100 of disk, as if multiple variations of m1.small with only different disk size
[21:54] <sidnei> s/m1.small/m1.medium
[21:55] <thumper> sidnei: well, if you think it makes sense, and likely that someone wants to do that, then sure, maybe
[21:55] <thumper> sidnei: you may want to run it by fwereade
[21:55] <sidnei> thumper: when i said it wasn't supported i got a 'dude, seriously' from elmo, so yeah. :)
[21:55] <thumper> heh
[21:56] <thumper> I'll take that as a "it will be used" type thing
[21:56] <thumper> you should write that in the bug :)
[21:56] <sidnei> it's somewhat of a workaround to https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1183831 since if instance-type was supported we'd just use that
[21:56] <_mup_> Bug #1183831: ec2 constraints missing <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1183831>
[21:57] <sidnei> i guess workaround is a bad way to put it
[22:07] <fwereade> thumper, sidnei: I've been having some very interesting conversations that may be able to let us do an end-run around the problems with provider-specific constraints, and it seems that sabdfl is very keen on the direction; so while it remains a little up in the air right now, it is more likely than not that we will see movement on that front soon
[22:08] <thumper> fwereade: yeah, just reading your doc
[22:08] <fwereade> thumper, sidnei: a disk constraint is not a bad idea in itself necessarily but we'd need to be quite clear on exactly what it is and is not
[22:08] <fwereade> thumper, sidnei: and I worry about possible interactions with future plans for storage
[22:09] <thumper> yeah, the future storage thing was something I was a bit worried about too
[22:09] <sidnei> yeah, me too. it is somewhat of a blocker though for moving to juju-core, since we don't have instance-type as a forward path either.
[22:09] <fwereade> thumper, sidnei: so my inclination is to discourage and take this as an even-stronger vote for instance-type/flavor constraints
[22:10] <fwereade> sidnei, but if you had them, it would be moot, or at least very low priority?
[22:10] <sidnei> either one of them would be fine, instance-type or disk constraint
[22:11] <sidnei> instance-type would be the less friction one since we wouldn't need to change existing scripts
[22:11] <fwereade> sidnei, all the better then, I'd rather have that too
[22:13] <fwereade> sidnei, can we sync up again on weds evening, at which point relevant plans and schedule discussions will have progressed another couple of steps?
[22:13] <sidnei> sure
[22:13] <sidnei> since i haven't seen the proposal, maybe im talking bullshit but would it make sense to prefix provider-specific constraints with a provider tag? as in ec2:instance-type or openstack:flavor and so on? and if you try to use those in a provider that doesn't support them they would be ignored?
[22:14] <fwereade> sidnei, openstack:flavor is IMO a big no, that was the main problem -- but canonistack:flavor seems just fine
[22:14] <fwereade> sidnei, openstack:flavor looks way more portable than it actually is
[22:15] <sidnei> because one can define custom flavors?
[22:15] <fwereade> sidnei, but prodstack:flavor, or hp:flavor, or whatever, *do* make sense and are also *clearly* not globally portable
[22:15] <fwereade> sidnei, yeah, the vocabularies may have enough overlap to be tempting but trying too apply them too broadly will hurt like hell ;)
[22:17] <fwereade> sidnei, and hopefully in practice we'll be able to infer provider anyway, so it should actually just be "instance-type" or "flavor" in many many cases
[22:17] <sidnei> im thinking in terms of 'openstack:flavor' is a filter that gets passed through to the openstack provider without vocabulary validation; there's no 'hp' or 'prodstack' provider, and neither 'hp' or 'prodstack' are values you specify in the environments config
[23:06] <arosales> quick 'juju init' question regarding the boiler template
[23:18] <davecheney> arosales: shoot
[23:21] <arosales> the boiler template has the following for hpcloud:
[23:21] <arosales>     # Usually set via the env variable AWS_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY, but can be specified here
[23:21] <arosales> should that the HP_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY ?
[23:21]  * arosales not sure if that was intentional or not, thus thought I would ping here.
[23:24] <davecheney> arosales: probably shouldn't be anything, I don't think there is sucha var for HP
[23:24] <davecheney> it's probably copy pasta
[23:24] <arosales> I thought you guys did land keys for hp .. .
[23:24]  * arosales checks env.yaml
[23:25] <davecheney> arosales: yes, but they woukd't be called HP_*
[23:25] <davecheney> we don't have a HP provider, we have an openstack provider
[23:26] <arosales> ah, ok.  Well that was just a comment in the boiler template
[23:26] <arosales> the actualy yaml key was
[23:26] <arosales> secret-key: <secret>
[23:26] <arosales> access-key: <secret>
[23:27] <arosales> basically the stanza http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5879146/
[23:28] <davecheney> hmm, i see what you mean
[23:28] <davecheney> neither is correct
[23:31] <arosales> marteen was trying to make it easier to get started with juju and was trying to script editing the env file and I found the keys for hp and aws to be the same.
[23:31] <arosales> davecheney, ok sounds like I should file a bug for follow up.
[23:34] <arosales> davecheney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1201628
[23:34] <_mup_> Bug #1201628: HP Cloud Boiler-plate (juju init) template has AWS info <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1201628>
[23:35] <davecheney> arosales: ta
[23:35] <wallyworld> arosales: those aws keys do work for openstack
[23:36] <wallyworld> although the openstack ones work too
[23:36] <arosales> wallyworld, I am guessing the key auth does work for openstack (ie hpcloud)
[23:36]  * arosales was just wondering about the AWS comment.
[23:36] <wallyworld> key auth does work now, or is supposed to
[23:36] <wallyworld> i haven't tested it personally
[23:36] <arosales> I think I have seen it work
[23:37] <arosales> bug is out there for triage accordingly
[23:37]  * arosales grabs some dinner
[23:37] <arosales> wallyworld, davecheney thanks for the help.
[23:37] <wallyworld> arosales: np. the AWS key is supported for ease of migration between ec2 and openstack
[23:38] <wallyworld> it looks for openstack specific env vars first
[23:38]  * thumper beats the machine over the head with the local provider stick
[23:38] <wallyworld> but uses the aws ones if there
[23:44] <thumper> hmm...


[02:54] <User> hi there
[02:55] <User> someone here?
[03:25] <lifeless> Sure.
[20:52] <arielsanflo> hello
[20:52] <arielsanflo> canal java speak spanish


[00:19] <GrueMaster> TheMuso: Ping.  Have you seen this issue with alsa 1.0.25? http://paste.ubuntu.com/853433/ Lines 2-4.
[00:20] <GrueMaster> Not sure if it is a pulse issue or an alsa issue.
[00:38] <GrueMaster> definitely new to alsa-lib 1.0.25.  I just reverted to libasound2_<IP_ADDRESS>-4ubuntu1 and I don't get that error.
[00:38] <Neko> maybe it's old or corrupted? :D
[00:39] <GrueMaster> Neko: New image.  Probably just need to kick pulse to work with some change in upstream alsa.
[00:43] <GrueMaster> Guess I'll need to see if I can reproduce this on x86, since it is pulse-alsa.conf.
[00:47] <GrueMaster> Yea, I can reproduce it on an x86 VM instance with "sudo alsactl restore".
[02:28] <GrueMaster> Well, I have a solution to the pandaes audio issue.  Not perfect, but works within the current confines of alsaucm.
[02:28] <GrueMaster> Will upload tomorrow, when my eyes are no longer crossed.
[05:07] <TheMuso> GrueMaster: I just fixed some of those alsa-lib errors you showed me the other day, seems 1.0.25 changed some syntax for its conf files.
[07:45] <NCommander> aramadxp images now building momentary
[08:51] <ppisati> ogra_: why is it called the FINAL arm meeting? do you plan to commit mass suicide after it (e.g. Lemmings)? :)
[09:09] <janimo`> ppisati, the ARM team within Canonical is being dissolved and its memebers assigned to other teams in the company
[09:17] <rbasak> NCommander: around? Daviey asked me about http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise_probs.html - are you aware of the "linux-armadaxp-tools-3.0.0-1500 has no installation candidate" in there, or is that resolved now?
[09:18] <NCommander> !@#$#!@!
[09:18] <NCommander> we shouldn't be building linux-tools
[09:18] <NCommander> ^- cooloney
[09:19] <cooloney> linux-tools built failed under armhf
[09:20] <cooloney> so i disable it in out linux-armadaxp package due to urgent upload request
[09:20] <cooloney> it can be built under armel, i think
[09:23] <NCommander> cooloney: I don't think we even need it
[09:24] <cooloney> NCommander: perf is very useful tool even for arm, we use it a lot for ti-omap4
[09:24] <cooloney> NCommander: and I saw some new tools was added from Marvell LSP
[09:24] <NCommander> cooloney: what would it take to fix it ?
[09:25] <cooloney> NCommander: i guess it's related to compiler, but don't have much time to take a look
[10:18] <infinity> cooloney: Oh, can you merge my latest armadaxp upload into git?
[10:18] <infinity> (I really should request zinc access)
[10:20] <infinity> cooloney: Oh, I see in another channel that you're already on top of it.  Nevermind. :)
[15:50] <GrueMaster> ogra_: Did you get my email on the pandaES audio situation?
[15:50] <ogra_> GrueMaster, yes, looks ok, lets upload it after someone (i.e. infinity) also eyeballed it quickly
[15:51] <ogra_> that udev rule is our hack anyway, adding another few lines for PandaES wont do any harm
[15:55] <infinity> ogra_: I'm sure you and Tobin are enough of a review.  And I'm happy to not take the blame on Panda audio this cycle. ;)
[15:55] <ogra_> haha, ok, then i'll just upload after the call
[16:37] <ogra_> WHEEE!
[16:37] <ogra_> so chromium 17 seems to work just fine on armel
[16:37] <ogra_> looks shiny, but takes twice as long as FF to start
[16:45] <infinity> ogra_: Yeah, no big shock there.  It's just as bloated, just differently. :P
[16:46] <ogra_> yep, but its great to have it after we had to live with 14 for ages
[16:48] <GrueMaster> Not seeing chromium for armhf (at least not on my mirror yet).
[16:52] <ogra_> GrueMaster, thats what we taljked about in the meeting :)
[16:52] <ogra_> only armel yet
[16:53] <ogra_> but it builds there for the first time in years
[16:54] <GrueMaster> ah, ok.
[17:07] <mahmoh> NCommander: armadaxp netinstall uImage resets, bug 939645
[17:07] <mahmoh> (which doesn't exist yet)
[17:07] <NCommander> mahmoh: the image fails to boot?
[17:07] <NCommander> greaaaaaaaaaaaat
[17:07] <mahmoh> right
[17:08] <NCommander> GrueMaster: ^, can you take a look?
[17:08] <mahmoh> ubot2`: ?
[17:08] <GrueMaster> NCommander: Can I nuke the armada here or do you have data that you want to keep?
[17:08] <mahmoh> for me at least, I'm using the 1500.3 uImage and the net installer uInitrd now
[17:08] <NCommander> GrueMaster: nuke and path.
[17:08] <NCommander> *pave
[17:09] <GrueMaster> ok
[17:09] <GrueMaster> I'm in a meeting now, but will be soon.
[17:09] <NCommander> mahmoh: so it doesn't boot at all? You got the bootargs right?
[17:10] <mahmoh> NCommander: it loads and tries to boot but resets immediately
[17:10] <NCommander> mahmoh: ugh, might be an issue with the mkimage commands
[17:10] <infinity> mahmoh: Gets into userspace, or dies in kernel init?
[17:10] <mahmoh> disclaimer: I did tftpboot it though but the checksum was fine so ...
[17:11] <mahmoh> infinity: dies before kernel init, right after load - you should be able to get to the bug
[17:11] <infinity> Oh, shiny.
[17:11] <infinity> (And no, I can't get the bug, I don't have the hardware)
[17:12] <mahmoh> infinity: I meant see the bug (maybe) to see the details of where it fails exactly
[17:13] <mahmoh> Starting kernel ...  interrupt request pc : [<0000803c>]          lr : [<006505cc>] sp : 005ffde0  ip : fffeffff     fp : 006d6ce8 r10: 005fff98  r9 : 00000bdc     r8 : 005fffcc r7 : 00000018  r6 : 005ffdec     r5 : 00000000  r4 : 005ffef7 r3 : 00008010  r2 : 000000f8     r1 : 00000bdc  r0 : 0040ff14 Flags: Nzcv  IRQs off  FIQs off  Mode SVC_32 Resetting CPU ...
[17:13] <mahmoh> NCommander: the good news is the uInitrd looks like it's fine so far ...
[17:30] <NCommander> mahmoh: god thats special
[17:31] <NCommander> mahmoh: try it with a differentuImage
[17:42] <GrueMaster> Yea, I see the same thing.  Will look at the kernel a little.
[17:48] <GrueMaster> Did the linux-armadaxp meta get bumped?  It seems to be pulling linux-image-3.0.0-1500-armadaxp 3.0.0-1500.2 instead of 3.0.0-1500.3
[17:50] <GrueMaster> apt-get dist-upgrade is pulling the kernel in, but usually I should be able to just do apt-get update && apt-get install linux-armadaxp to update the kernel.
[17:53] <GrueMaster> grrr.  resolvconf install error.
[17:56] <infinity> GrueMaster: That trick only works in the case of ABI bumps.
[17:56] <GrueMaster> ok.
[17:56] <infinity> GrueMaster: No ABI bump means no new linux-meta, means you need to upgrade the kernel image itself, not count on linux-meta to do it.
[17:56] <infinity> (But, as you note, apt-get upgrade gets it right)
[18:01] <GrueMaster> Guess I'm just used to more that a minor change with new kernels.
[18:03] <GrueMaster> Ok, the kernel in ubuntu-ports/dists/precise/main/installer-armhf/20101020ubuntu113/images/armadaxp/ is busted.  Not even sure of it's origins.
[18:08] <micahg> infinity: sorry, I started to look at it, but lost my session (forgot to run in screen)
[18:08] <micahg> infinity: for chromium on armhf, if someone else has time to look, feel free
[18:08] <infinity> micahg: Oops.
[18:09] <infinity> I'm pretty craptacularly busy today, but remind me tomorrow to kick off a build, so I can look at it Monday. :P
[18:09] <infinity> GrueMaster: Yeah, I think the SRU 2-week cadence with an ABI bump almost every time has conditioned people to assume that new kernel == new ABI.
[18:12] <micahg> infinity: that's about the same timeframe I have :)
[18:18] <GrueMaster> ppisati: The mmap patch seems to have fallen out of the 2.6.35 omap4 kernel.
[18:21] <ppisati> GrueMaster: uh? it was there
[18:21] <ppisati> GrueMaster: wait
[18:23] <ppisati> GrueMaster: gitweb on kernel.u.com is sloooooooowwww...
[18:24] <ogra_> use bzr !
[18:24] <ogra_> :P
[18:25] <ppisati> ogra_: i'll send a pull req to convert from git to bzr :)
[18:25] <ppisati> GrueMaster: patches are still there
[18:25] <ppisati> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-maverick.git;a=commit;h=2956dd26b949343aca5581356bff6c1cf18a22c2
[18:25] <ppisati> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-maverick.git;a=commit;h=ddc72fa76d3965ca3576cfbc7a1de6e1e4b4a681
[18:25] <ppisati> M/omap4
[18:26] <GrueMaster> Maybe in the tree, but the tests are failing.
[18:26] <GrueMaster> sudo ./mmap-test
[18:26] <GrueMaster> Couldn't allocate the heap: 1902Mb
[18:26] <ppisati> doh!
[18:26] <ppisati> SRU kernel?
[18:26] <GrueMaster> These are the tests included from the earlier bug (can't remember the bug number.
[18:26] <GrueMaster> Yes, latest SRU kernel.
[18:26] <ppisati> ok, i'll check it out
[18:27] <GrueMaster> 2.6.35-903-omap4 #31-Ubuntu
[18:27] <ppisati> remind me where the test are located
[18:27] <ppisati> *these tests
[18:27] <GrueMaster> I'm trying to find the original bug.  It was fix released a while ago.
[18:28] <GrueMaster> (and of course the bug isn't in the test source.
[18:32] <GrueMaster> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/861296
[18:32] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 861296 in linux-ti-omap4 "mmap fails to allocate 2030Mb heap on ARM" [Undecided,Fix committed]
[18:32] <xranby_ac100> GrueMaster: the original bug was that eclipse failed to compile on arm
[18:33] <xranby_ac100> since the eclipse build passed some herejava please use insane amounts of memory plx
[18:33] <xranby_ac100> and this made x86 builds pass while arm where failing due to this bug
[18:33] <GrueMaster> xranby_ac100: I think it was renamed or a new bug with specific info was created (see above).
[18:35] <xranby_ac100> im not sure there exist an original bug.. try ask doko
[18:35] <xranby_ac100> since it was clear mmap did not behave identical on x86 and arm i filed the above bug
[18:35] <GrueMaster> xranby_ac100: I already posted the link (see backscroll).
[18:35]  * xranby_ac100 scrolls back
[18:36] <xranby_ac100> GrueMaster: before i rejoined?
[18:36] <GrueMaster> bug 861296 is what I was referring to.
[18:36] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 861296 in linux-ti-omap4 "mmap fails to allocate 2030Mb heap on ARM" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861296
[18:36] <GrueMaster> It has the mmap-test source.
[18:38] <infinity> xranby_ac100: haskell-src-exts and qtwebkit-source are still FTBFS with OOMing issues.
[18:38] <xranby_ac100> (07:26:30 PM) GrueMaster: Couldn't allocate the heap: 1902Mb  <---- how much swap are in use on your test system?
[18:39] <infinity> I'm not convinced that it's this particular issue, though.  I can get the mmap test to pass on some kernels where the builds will still fail. :/
[18:39] <GrueMaster> SwapTotal:      33554428 kB
[18:39] <xranby_ac100> ok
[18:40] <infinity> I think I probably need to spend some solid time revisiting that next week and hunt down the root cause before we get too close to release.
[18:40] <GrueMaster> xranby_ac100: I run the same SRU test suite on all platforms and kernels.  This passed on the previous kernel for this platform.  Every image is installed from netboot & preseed.
[18:41] <xranby_ac100> GrueMaster: i am convinced
[18:41] <xranby_ac100> btw, thank you for running those tests
[18:41] <GrueMaster> I added them to my SRU regression testing specifically for this reason.
[18:46] <infinity> micahg: Kicking off a chromium testbuild locally now, but yeah, my timeframe for looking at it is probably still Monday. ;)
[18:48] <infinity> micahg: Kicking off a chromium testbuild locally now, but yeah, my timeframe for looking at it is probably still Monday. ;)
[18:53]  * ppisati -> EOD
[18:54] <GrueMaster> ppisati: Also, still missing headers from the dove headers package.
[18:55] <GrueMaster> linux-headers-2.6.32-423 is virtually empty.
[18:55] <GrueMaster> (changelog & copyright info only).
[18:55] <infinity> GrueMaster: Yeah, didn't we agree that we just didn't deeply care anyway? :)
[18:56] <GrueMaster> infinity: really should be a kernel team call on that, but in general yes.
[18:56] <GrueMaster> (and I had thought he was going to look at it).
[18:56] <infinity> GrueMaster: well, yes.  If they care, they can fix it.  But I'm betting they don't if we don't.
[18:56] <infinity> And I'd be shocked if we had any dove users.
[18:57] <ogra_> we do !
[18:57] <ogra_> GrueMaster !
[18:57] <infinity> ogra_: I said users, not QA testers. :P
[18:57] <ogra_> heh
[18:58] <GrueMaster> I think there are commercial users, but maybe not for this specific kernel.
[18:58] <infinity> ogra_: If GrueMaster's desk is representative of our average user, we're doing a pretty poor job of targetting, well, normal people.
[18:58] <ogra_> surely not on dove devboards
[18:58] <GrueMaster> I know HP has a little desktop system (I've seen one at a friends house).
[18:59] <ogra_> did they ever sell that armada ebox they showed in brussels ?
[18:59] <infinity> Ubuntu: Linux for Crazy People?
[18:59] <ogra_> isnt it that ?
[18:59] <GrueMaster> And it has our kernel patches at least.
[18:59] <ogra_> from crazy people for crazy people
[18:59] <infinity> I'm pretty sure I have a t-shirt that says something about Human Beings.
[18:59]  * GrueMaster is having issues with LP.
[18:59] <infinity> QA people don't qualify.
[19:00] <GrueMaster> That's why my blog is titled "Terminal Insanity".
[19:00] <infinity> ;)
[19:00] <ogra_> GrueMaster, about time you gain membership
[19:00] <ogra_> so it shows up on planet
[19:01] <GrueMaster> Yea, I looked into that a while ago.  Lot of hassle.
[19:01] <ogra_> heh
[19:01] <ogra_> not really
[19:01] <GrueMaster> And I just haven't had the spare cycles to jump through the hoops.
[19:01] <ogra_> one wikipage that lists your contributions
[19:02] <ogra_> and one evening to attend the rmb meeting
[19:02] <mahmoh> NCommander: GrueMaster: otherwise, the net-installer works fine as far as I can tell, need to preseed it now to enable nightly install verification testing
[19:02] <NCommander> mahmoh: I'll takea hammer to it
[19:02] <ogra_> you surely got enough bugs under your belt to qualify easily
[19:02] <GrueMaster> mahmoh: I'll pass you my preseed.
[19:02] <mahmoh> thx
[19:04] <GrueMaster> Guhhh.  What is going on with our web servers?  paste.ubuntu.com is slow, lp is almost non-existant.
[19:05] <GrueMaster> and email is also having issues.
[19:06] <infinity> GrueMaster: No issues here, perhaps you're suffering routing issues to the DC?
[19:06] <GrueMaster> Must be.
[19:07] <GrueMaster> ping seems fine.
[19:57] <GrueMaster> mahmoh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/854454/
[19:57] <GrueMaster> That's the preseed I am currently working with.
[19:58] <mahmoh> GrueMaster: thx!
[23:05] <slangasek> janimo`: for this apr upload in the freeze queue, what's the definition of "recent enough" for the kernels?
[23:07] <ogra_> slangasek, hey, thanks for the welcome mail ! :)
[23:07] <slangasek> :-)


[00:41] <goddard> yo
[03:24] <bkerensa> goddard: yo
[03:26] <goddard> bkerensa: whats going on
[03:26] <bkerensa> goddard: just running some updates and trying to stay cool
[03:26] <bkerensa> nathwill: any progress on shroudbnc?
[03:29] <goddard> yep me to
[03:29] <goddard> bkerensa: next to the air conditionor
[03:35] <bkerensa> :D
[03:57] <nathwill> bkerensa, not yet
[03:57] <bkerensa> nathwill: kk
[03:57] <nathwill> i mean, i got it working, but shroundbnc uses these damn tcl files to do everything
[03:57] <nathwill> is very un-friendly
[03:57] <bkerensa> nathwill: if you have a vga monitor we might have to test this mini pc sometime at your place?
[03:57] <nathwill> sure thing :)
[03:57] <bkerensa> when I'm done reviewing it you can have it :)
[03:58] <bkerensa> ^
[03:58] <nathwill> oooh??
[03:58] <bkerensa> yes
[03:58] <nathwill> :D
[03:58] <bkerensa> Although I like gadgets... the volume off stuff I get overwhelms me :P
[03:58] <nathwill> lol
[03:58] <nathwill> so how do you like it so far?
[03:59] <bkerensa> nathwill: well considering I dont have a display its nothing more than a brick to me but the construction and design seems solid :)
[03:59] <nathwill> oooh
[03:59] <nathwill> got it
[03:59] <nathwill> well lets plan on sushi sometime this week
[03:59] <bkerensa> LOL
[03:59] <bkerensa> uhh ok :)
[03:59] <nathwill> anything beats another night of pasta
[03:59] <nathwill> srsly
[04:00] <bkerensa> well I might be slightly broke :P I just funneled my money to ING Direct :) and bought stuff for OSCON
[04:00] <bkerensa> but yeah lets see
[04:00] <bkerensa> :D
[07:06] <r0csteady> ubuntu woooooooooooooooooooo!
[07:18] <bkerensa> r0csteady: ubuntu :D
[07:19] <r0csteady> yaya!
[16:14] <r0csteady> :)/bu 52
[18:29] <tgm4883> bkerensa is everywhere
[18:30] <bkerensa> tgm4883: mostly just on irc
[18:30] <tgm4883> bkerensa, you are a manager of the official ubuntu members team on linkedin
[18:31] <tgm4883> which I just applied to join
[18:31] <bkerensa> oh let me add u
[18:31] <bkerensa> ;)
[18:31] <tgm4883> so you need to add me :)
[18:32] <bkerensa> tgm4883: I didnt know u were a developer
[18:32] <bkerensa> lol
[18:32] <tgm4883> that is my free job
[18:32] <tgm4883> my paid job is system admin
[18:33] <bkerensa> ;p
[18:33] <bkerensa> I have too many free jobs
[18:34] <bkerensa> tgm4883: yeah linkedin sucks for me... about 15 people apply a week who dont even have a launchpad
[18:38] <MarkDude> bkerensa, is there an announcement on Lyz winning award?
[18:38] <bkerensa> MarkDude: They dont announce winners until the day of
[18:39] <MarkDude> Oh
[18:39] <MarkDude> Ty sir


[06:42] <soreau> Where can I ask about problems with packages.ubuntu.com like this one? http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=aclocal&mode=exactfilename&suite=natty&arch=any
[06:42] <soreau> It fails to find which package aclocal belongs to somehow..
[07:59] <cdbs> cjwatson: Rebuilding pidgin should fix the issue I suppose, the proper irssi libs are there now. Just re-build the failed packages without uploading anything
[08:39] <cjwatson> cdbs: OK, I've given it back, thanks
[09:08] <cdbs> cjwatson: It failed again, seems like we need some la file cleanup
[09:10] <cjwatson> feel free to sort that out :)
[17:15] <broder> hmm...how does having NotAutomatic backports impact PPA builds that have backports set as a dependency?
[18:49] <muneeb> it seems that in Natty the directory structure for /usr/lib is changed and that is causing me problems while installing my printer's driver. How can i resolve this?
[18:49] <broder> muneeb: fix the driver
[18:50] <broder> more seriously, are we talking about an open- or closed-source driver?
[18:50] <muneeb> broder: i'm not a  developer :(( it's closed source
[18:51] <broder> ok. well, you should point them at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiarchSpec
[18:51] <broder> it's not something that's easily worked around by anybody but the driver developers
[18:53] <muneeb> broder: they haven't updated their drivers since ages.. i don't think they care about linux anymore.. i'm still not sure whether it's closed source or OSS.. lemme check
[18:54] <muneeb> broder: i think it's open source.. http://support-in.canon-asia.com/contents/IN/EN/0100188102.html
[18:55] <muneeb> broder: how can i fix these.. if you can point me.. i'll try.. btw what are changes in 10.10 and 11.04 regarding this /usr/lib and if anything else
[18:57] <JanC> muneeb: the changes were done to allow installing software for more than one CPU architecture on one system
[18:59] <muneeb> JanC: okay.. i'm reading that page..  but now what should i do to make it work? any coding is required?
[19:09] <muneeb> anyone?
[19:14] <JanC> muneeb: I think the main differences are where libraries are installed to and loaded from; most projects have an option for that in their build system
[19:17] <JanC> in case of printer/scanner drivers, there might be additional issues with CUPS & SANE
[19:17] <muneeb> JanC: hmm.. so i need to dig around a bit.. when i was trying to install this it was complaining  about not able to fine libc6 and more libraries but i had them installed..
[19:18] <JanC> muneeb: do you have the developer libraries installed?
[19:18] <muneeb> JanC: yes.. libc6-dev
[19:20] <muneeb> JanC: i have whole tutorial written by myself for Maverick and below distros.. but it doesn't work for Natty now
[19:20] <muneeb> JanC: i think it tries to find libraries in /usr/lib or some kinda location which are moved now in Natty
[19:21] <JanC> muneeb: maybe you can ask the developers who are more experienced with multiarch in some days (most developers are on their way back from UDS, I think)
[19:23] <JanC> and I agree it probably has something to do with changed locations
[19:23] <muneeb> JanC: okay... thanks for the help btw.. i'll try to understand the source code till that time.. but i ain't developer :((
[19:25] <Ampelbein> muneeb: can you pastebin the error and what command you invoked?
[19:27] <muneeb> Ampelbein: i reinstalled Maverick for now.. i had pasted those errors on paste.ubuntu.com in #ubuntu channel.. i'll see if i can get those..
[19:47] <muneeb> here's pastebinned error.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/607453/
[23:12] <nacef> Hi there


[06:06] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[06:11] <happyaron> morning!
[06:12] <larsu> hi guys
[06:12] <happyaron> seems upload notification email is broken.
[06:15] <seb128> happyaron, hey! you mean the ones you get when you dput something to the archive?
[06:16] <happyaron> yup
[06:49] <seb128> larsu, desrt, could one of you look at bug 1381804?
[06:51] <desrt> seb128: i'll take a peek
[06:51] <seb128> desrt, thanks
[06:53] <seb128> desrt, it hits a "g_main_loop_quit: assertion 'g_atomic_int_get (&loop->ref_count) > 0' failed"
[06:53] <seb128> I've an i386 install/can reproduce if you need info
[06:55] <seb128> desrt, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~daisy-pluckers/whoopsie/trunk/view/head:/src/tests/test_monitor.c#L125
[06:57] <larsu> desrt: let me know if you need help
[07:07] <seb128> the new indicator headers on the phone are nice looking!
[07:09] <desrt> seb128: only on i386?
[07:10] <seb128> desrt, bugs states on !amd64
[07:10] <seb128> desrt, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/whoopsie/0.2.38
[07:10] <desrt> seb128: was just getting there :)
[07:11] <desrt> first theory: testcase is doing something evil :)
[07:11] <seb128> desrt, so yeah, arm, ppc, i386
[07:11] <seb128> yeah, that's possible
[07:11] <seb128> something that used to work with old glib and still work on amd64 for some reason
[07:11] <seb128> but fixing the testcase is a valid fix ;-)
[07:11] <chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, I only just noticed the new headers
[07:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey! they feel nice, don't you think?
[07:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you btw? ;-)
[07:12] <chrisccoulson> yeah, they're much better than before
[07:12] <chrisccoulson> I'm good thanks, how are you?
[07:12] <seb128> I'm good, thanks
[07:13] <seb128> larsu, would you fancy looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1381897 ?
[07:13] <larsu> seb128: sure
[07:13] <seb128> larsu, I think that's something you fixed in the distro patched version of evince we had but that seems buggy in current upstream
[07:14] <seb128> larsu, thanks
[07:14] <seb128> larsu, ctrl-shift-+ vs ctrl-+
[07:15] <larsu> seb128: right, we added <ctrl>= or something for those users
[07:16] <seb128> larsu, maybe you can put a patch upstream up for review, that does that?
[07:18] <desrt> seb128: don't see any mention of atomics in the report
[07:19] <seb128> desrt, that's the output from running the test manually on my box
[07:19] <seb128> I guess the make check run eats stderr
[07:19] <desrt> ** (./test_monitor:9220): WARNING **: Expected file /tmp/whoopsie-test-SLNTNX/fake.uploaded doesn't exist.
[07:20] <desrt> seems like this is the original complaint.... i wonder if you're seeing something different again
[07:20] <seb128> no
[07:20] <seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/186966939/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-armhf.whoopsie_0.2.38_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[07:20] <seb128> " /whoopsie/callback-never-triggered: [04:53:09] Could not read directory (2): /fake
[07:20] <seb128> OK
[07:20] <seb128>  /whoopsie/callback-triggered-once:
[07:20] <seb128> (./test_monitor:7527): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_main_loop_quit: assertion 'g_atomic_int_get (&loop->ref_count) > 0' failed
[07:20] <seb128> Trace/breakpoint trap"
[07:21] <seb128> desrt, see how the could not read gives an OK
[07:21] <seb128> desrt, that's the buildlog from armhf
[07:21] <seb128> well, maybe it's a different issue, but the one that current fails the build is the one I'm seeing locally
[07:23]  * desrt grabs i386 iso
[07:23] <desrt> don't have my VM party when i'm not at home :)
[07:24] <larsu> desrt: ask seb128 to let you ssh into his machine :P
[07:24] <seb128> desrt has ssh access to porter box
[07:24] <seb128> Debian ones at least I think
[07:24] <desrt> i do!?
[07:24] <desrt> oh right.... from ages ago
[07:24] <desrt> i bet i have a new ssh key since then :)
[07:26] <desrt> i think it will be faster to download the iso :p
[07:26] <larsu> seb128: I was kidding...
[07:26] <desrt> code in this test is suspicious
[07:26] <seb128> larsu, I'm not, I ssh to porter box quite often for debugging, easier that vms
[07:58] <willcooke> morning
[08:02] <seb128> hey willcooke, how are you?
[08:02] <larsu> hi willcooke
[08:02] <willcooke> o/
[08:03] <Laney> yo
[08:03] <Laney> there were no pips at 9am just now on radio 4
[08:03] <Laney> so my morning routine is RUINED
[08:03] <willcooke> WHAT?
[08:04] <Laney> seriously
[08:04] <Laney> we're probably being invaded or something
[08:04] <willcooke> Wasn't that some secret signal for WW3?
[08:05] <willcooke> glad I'm getting out of this country tomorrow morning.  It's going to down the pan
[08:05] <larsu> Laney: morning :)
[08:06] <Laney> hey larsu
[08:06] <Laney> how's it going
[08:06] <seb128> hey Laney
[08:07] <seb128> willcooke, flying to Washington tomorrow?
[08:07] <willcooke> seb128, yeah, made the flights about 1/2 the price
[08:07] <seb128> weird
[08:07] <Laney> hey seb128
[08:07] <seb128> or are you coming back on friday evening or saturday?
[08:07] <willcooke> seb128, Friday evening
[08:07] <seb128> k
[08:07] <Laney> that's probably just the saturday rule
[08:07] <seb128> yeah, saturday night rule
[08:08] <seb128> though it should have been cheap on saturday as well
[08:08] <seb128> just not on sunday
[08:08] <willcooke> I dont get that rule. Is it some kind of tourist trap, to make you spend more money?
[08:08] <seb128> willcooke, no, it's what makes business people different from tourists
[08:09] <willcooke> ahh, kk
[08:09] <seb128> willcooke, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday-night_stay
[08:09] <willcooke> ha - I should have known there'd be a Wikipedia page
[08:09] <seb128> :-)
[08:10] <willcooke> seb128, can we work through that Gtk stuff this morning?  I'll document it as well.  Squeeze another blog post out ;)
[08:11] <seb128> willcooke, sure
[08:11] <seb128> let me take my test laptop
[08:12] <willcooke> seb128, shall we do it over IRC?  If so, perhaps a side-channel?
[08:12]  * larsu overheard something about gtk stuff
[08:12] <seb128> willcooke, I think it's going to be a 3 lines IRC discussion
[08:12] <willcooke> oh sweet
[08:12] <willcooke> let's do it here then?
[08:12] <seb128> just need to check again the magic
[08:12] <seb128> yes
[08:13] <seb128> larsu, having gtk apps listed in the unity8 dash on desktop-next
[08:13] <seb128> larsu, so you can run e.g gedit
[08:13] <larsu> we don't?
[08:13] <seb128> no
[08:13] <seb128> because no backend
[08:13] <larsu> doesn't it use the same setting as unity7's dash?
[08:13] <larsu> oh
[08:13] <seb128> so we didn't want to list something not working
[08:13] <larsu> right
[08:13] <seb128> no
[08:13] <seb128> the issue is that they didn't want to list tons of non working stuff
[08:13] <seb128> like x-apps, java, gtk, etc
[08:13] <seb128> so they went with a whitelist approach
[08:14] <seb128> well "whitelist"
[08:14] <larsu> that makes a lot of sense for now
[08:14] <seb128> some new key in the .desktop
[08:14] <seb128> right
[08:14] <seb128> result is that e.g gedit is not listed
[08:14] <seb128> so you need manual hack to use it
[08:14] <seb128> willcooke wants to know the hack
[08:15] <Laney> there's already a "GTK" desktop file category
[08:15] <Laney> FWIW
[08:16] <seb128> Laney, yeah, but Unity8 doesn't use that atm
[08:16] <Laney> I'm sure not
[08:17] <Laney> If that works it's better than modifying tons of desktop files though
[08:17] <seb128> right
[08:17] <Laney> it's at least vaguely upstreamable
[08:17] <seb128> except if they want to make sure to not list buggy softwares
[08:18] <seb128> which they were leaning toward
[08:18] <Laney> good luck with that
[08:18] <seb128> well, the idea was "add the key to the .desktop if it has been tested/confirmed to work"
[08:18] <Laney> sounds scalable and maintainable
 :p
[08:19] <willcooke> this is "only" a quick hack so we can demo to Jane
[08:19] <seb128> willcooke, yeah, we are discussing futur/proper solutions there
[08:19] <seb128> not the demo
[08:19] <willcooke> ahh
[08:19] <willcooke> kk
[08:19] <willcooke> in which case...
[08:19] <willcooke> carry on
[08:19] <willcooke> ;)
[08:20] <seb128> willcooke, so, I think you just need to add "X-Ubuntu-Touch=true" to your .desktop
[08:20] <seb128> willcooke, try adding that to /usr/share/applications/gedit.desktop and restart your unity8 session
[08:20] <willcooke> will do...
[08:21]  * willcooke install gedit first
[08:21] <willcooke> ;)
[08:22] <Laney> oh I should unbrick my phone
[08:22] <willcooke> would it "work" for xchat-gnone too?
[08:22] <Laney> 285 was not good
[08:22] <seb128> Laney, did you wait for a while?
[08:23] <Laney> like 60 minutes
[08:23] <Laney> I forgot about it :p
[08:23] <Laney> also there's some posts on the ubuntu-phone list
[08:23] <seb128> willcooke, worth trying, but I think that had issues due to some widgets/xorg use
[08:23] <willcooke> ack
[08:23] <seb128> Laney, k, complain to ogra then!:
[08:24] <ogra_> hey ... that were slangasek and cjwatson who played with utopic :P
[08:25] <willcooke> seb128, done - it appears in the list, but just crashes
[08:25] <seb128> willcooke, xchat or gedit?
[08:25] <willcooke> seb128, geofft
[08:25] <willcooke> oops sorry geoff
[08:25] <willcooke> seb128, gedit
[08:25] <seb128> :-(
[08:25] <seb128> works on my machine
[08:26] <geofft> aw man, I wanna be a text editor
[08:26] <seb128> well, let me update before claiming that
[08:26] <willcooke> erk
[08:26] <willcooke> seb128, stop!
[08:26]  * seb128 stops
[08:27] <Laney> (hammer time)
[08:27] <willcooke> seb128, now I cant even get lightdm to start
[08:27]  * Laney dances
[08:27] <seb128> shrug
[08:27] <willcooke> after a reboot
[08:27] <willcooke> seb128, dont want you to break your machine too
[08:27] <willcooke> :)
[08:27] <seb128> best time to brick your laptop
[08:27] <willcooke> :)
[08:27] <seb128> before travelling!
[08:27] <willcooke> seb128, I'll upgrade everything and try again
[08:27] <seb128> well, that's a test machine, I'm happy to brick it
[08:27] <seb128> so I can help debugging
[08:27]  * seb128 upgrades
[08:30] <willcooke> :)
[08:36] <willcooke> seb128,  dist-upgrade and I'm back with a GUI
[08:37] <willcooke> seb128, also Store seems to be working now
[08:38] <seb128> nice!
[08:42] <willcooke> seb128, still cant get gedit to load
[08:42] <willcooke> seb128, where should I look for logs?
[08:43] <seb128> willcooke, .cache/upstart/unity8.log
[08:47] <seb128> willcooke, sorry, mine is still dist-upgrade, disk is sloooow, I should change it as well ;-)
[08:47] <willcooke> seb128, looking at the logs
[09:16] <willcooke> seb128, bah - nothing obvious in the log:  http://pastebin.com/vnqdh10a
[09:18] <seb128> willcooke, to me it looks like the recent mir updates made the gtk-mir backend stop working
[09:18] <willcooke> arse
[09:18] <willcooke> oh well, so be it
[09:18] <seb128> willcooke, there is a "application-legacy-geditmir-.log" with a "gdk_mir_event_source_queue_event: code should not be reached"
[09:19] <seb128> willcooke, somebody for robert_ancell to look at, maybe tomorrow
[09:19] <willcooke> cool
[09:19] <willcooke> I'll drop him a line, thanks seb128
[09:20] <seb128> willcooke, I was about to reply to the gtk-mir email, I can do that if you want
[09:20] <seb128> or you do it, that works too ;-)
[09:20] <willcooke> seb128, oh, if you could that would probably be better than me saying "it won't go - I have no idea what I'm doing"
[09:20] <willcooke> :D
[09:20] <seb128> willcooke, ok, doing so
[09:20] <willcooke> thanks
[09:29] <seb128> willcooke, how does that look?
[09:29]  * willcooke reads
[09:30] <willcooke> Laney, is the start up disk creator something you'd still like to work on next cycle?
[09:30] <willcooke> seb128,  excellent, thank you
[09:30] <seb128> willcooke, yw!
[09:39] <Laney> larsu: https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/whoopsie/source/+merge/238539
[09:43] <larsu> Laney: thanks! approved
[09:43] <larsu> (can't top-approve)
[09:45] <Laney> cheers
[09:45]  * Laney uploads
[11:27] <Laney> willcooke: oops, forgot to reply, yes I think so
[11:31] <willcooke> Laney, great - I'll include it in the plans we produce next week, but if I forget - poke me.
[11:50] <larsu> oops, linked the wrong bug
[12:19] <Laney> w00t, new unity
[12:22] <seb128> speaking of unity and keybindings
[12:22] <seb128> is ctrl-alt-L still working for others?
[12:22] <Laney> it changed to super-l for me for some reason
[12:22] <seb128> both are supposed to work no?
[12:23] <Laney> are they?
[12:23] <seb128> I though we said it was not acceptable to stop supporting the legacy combo and had both working
[12:23] <seb128> bregma, Trevinho ^?
[12:24] <seb128> Laney, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/7.1.2+14.04.20140214.1-0ubuntu1
[12:24] <Laney> seems weird to have a random keybinding not exposed in the ui
[12:24] <seb128> "  * Adds Super+L to lock the screen, while keeping the older shortcut
[12:24] <seb128>     around in g-s-d (Ctrl+Alt+L). (LP: #830709)"
[12:24] <seb128> or did g-s-d change the default in the 3.12 update?
[12:24] <Laney> could be
[12:25] <larsu> ctrl+alt+l still works for me
[12:25] <bregma> wasn't a Unity change that removed that key sequence, it was working for me not too long ago
[12:25] <bregma> doesn't work for me now
[12:25] <seb128> -      <default>'<Control><Alt>l'</default>
[12:25] <seb128> +      <default>'<Super>l'</default>
[12:25] <seb128> indeed
[12:25] <seb128> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/186130738/gnome-settings-daemon_<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu15_3.12.2-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
[12:25] <seb128> I guess we should add an override to ubuntu-settings
[12:25]  * seb128 does that
[12:25] <larsu> seb128: why does it wotrk for me then?
[12:25] <seb128> Laney, ^ sounds ok to you?
[12:26] <Laney> -      <default>'<Control><Alt>l'</default>
[12:26] <Laney> +      <default>'<Super>l'</default>
[12:26] <Laney> oh yeah
[12:26] <Laney> you already pasted that
[12:26] <seb128> larsu, because you went to g-c-c since you installed and did ctrl-alt-l in there one day
[12:26] <seb128> larsu, and it's in your user settings since*
[12:26] <Laney> that's probably alright I suppose
[12:26] <larsu> can't remember, but I'm getting older, so might be
[12:26] <seb128> larsu, well, it's enough that you might have tested a bug to see if the keybinding change was working or something
[12:27] <seb128> larsu, gsettings get org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.media-keys screensaver & reset & get
[12:27] <larsu> seb128: indeed, it's set to primary+alt+l
[12:27]  * larsu doesn't reset. muahah
[12:28] <seb128> lol
[12:28] <Laney> I like super-l better
[12:28] <Laney> in your FACE ctrl alt
[12:29] <larsu> Laney: I actually like super+l better too. In theory. Good luck explaining that to my fingers
[12:30] <Laney> reset the key :)
[12:32] <larsu> I'll try. let's see how that goes
[12:32] <larsu> probably results in me losing my private key in DC
[12:33] <seb128> yeah, I had a couple of "screen didn't lock" incidents
[12:50] <seb128> Laney, want to cherrypick https://bug738625.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=288667 on top of your evince upload? that's 1381897
[13:05] <Trevinho> Laney, seb128 they should both work...
[13:06] <seb128> Trevinho, hey, right, we figured out the issue, it's the g-s-d update, it relies on g-s-d to catch ctrl-alt-l while compiz does super-l
[13:06] <Trevinho> seb128: yes, I've just read that as well
[13:06] <Trevinho> seb128: in fact we just rely on that for ctrl+alt+l
[13:06] <Trevinho> while unity does handle super+l with his key settings
[13:36] <Laney> seb128: after it gets review
[13:37] <seb128> Laney, not trusting larsu?!
[13:37] <seb128> ;-)
[13:37] <larsu> right on, I don't trust myself either
[13:37] <Laney> system("keylogger");
[14:05] <larsu> can we get a new epiphany next cycle?
[14:06] <seb128> larsu, does it use gtkheaderbar?
[14:06] <seb128> can we easily add back normal decoration without having a weird UI?
[14:07] <larsu> it would be weird in that case I guess
[14:07] <larsu> because they have the title / locationbar switcher thing
[14:07] <Laney> it's not default, don't see why we would block there
[14:08] <larsu> ya, and maybe next cycle we'll be able to actually resize windows with csds
[14:09] <seb128> Laney, do you know why it was not updated this cycle?
[14:09] <seb128> but yeah, I think it's fine updating
[14:09] <seb128> I doubt many people use !firefox|chrom* anyway
[14:09] <Laney> no idea
[14:09] <seb128> those who do can deal with csd weirdnesses
[14:09] <larsu> :)
[14:10] <larsu> I just want to make fastmail a webapp
[14:10] <larsu> and the current one doesn't seem to work at all anymore
[14:10] <larsu> sluggish scrolling
[14:10] <Laney> and indeed we should make csd work properly
[14:10] <seb128> how are webapp handled?
[14:10] <seb128> it's a standalone browser instance without chrome?
[14:10] <larsu> Laney: still waiting on a compiz fix...
[14:11] <Laney> v-cycle for real guys!
[14:11] <larsu> seb128: yes, exactly. It puts a .desktop file into you .local
[14:12] <happyaron> Laney: NUDT guys spend most of there energy on a big bid for the gov in earlier this cycle, so quite some updates flows in this week.
[14:12] <happyaron> * there -> their
[14:19] <Laney> happyaron: ho hum
[14:19] <Laney> It means that this "new UI" gets almost no testing before the release
[14:20] <happyaron> Laney: the people in charge comes: @JackYu
[14:20] <GunnarHj> Hi pitti
[14:20] <Laney> happyaron: It's ok, I just wanted to highlight it
[14:20] <happyaron> ic
[14:20] <Laney> thanks for replying
[14:20] <happyaron> np
[14:21] <happyaron> local smoke test shows no problem, but could be problems hidden there.
[14:21] <JackYu> Laney, happyaron, I'm back.
[14:23] <Laney> hi JackYu, I approved the FFe now
[14:23] <Laney> I wanted to draw some attention to the lateness
[14:24] <JackYu> Laney, thanks. I answered your comments just now.
[14:24] <Laney> now you only have a week to fix bugs
[14:24] <Laney> scary :)
[14:25] <Laney> I like the new UI more, by the way :P
[14:25] <JackYu> yes^
[14:25] <JackYu> thanks, lol
[14:26] <happyaron> Laney: and maybe a rush for PPU rights, ubuntu-kylin-sso-client.. (sry for pinging again :P)
[14:27] <Laney> bad man
[14:35] <Laney> happyaron: I want to try an experiment first
[14:35] <Laney> (generating the ubuntukylin packageset from seeds)
[14:36] <happyaron> I'm fine, :)
[14:50] <Laney> happyaron: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8574321/
[14:51] <Laney> I think maybe I should override chromium ...
[14:58] <seb128> Laney, wdyt of http://paste.ubuntu.com/8574355/ ?
[14:58] <seb128> Laney, sorry, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8574357/
[15:00] <Laney> LIst?
[15:00] <seb128> Laney, typo, fixed ;-)
[15:01] <Laney> I think you shouldn't repeat the logic
[15:02] <seb128> and otherwise?
[15:02] <Laney> and use QDir::absoluteFileName to get the path instead of concatenating
[15:04] <Laney> you can tell entryList to give you sorted lists too, which should be better for the final sort
[15:04] <seb128> Laney, how does that work?
[15:04] <willcooke> success - slides are finished
[15:04] <willcooke> with the exception of didrocks
[15:04] <willcooke> who will have a nice surprise on Monday morning
[15:04] <Laney> soundsDir.absoluteFileName(dirList[i])
[15:04] <Laney> or so
[15:05] <seb128> hum
[15:05] <seb128> doesn't that take a name as argument?
[15:05] <seb128> can you give it a path?
[15:05] <seb128> I need to prepend the /custom
[15:05] <seb128> not add a filename at the end
[15:05] <Laney> ?
[15:05] <Laney> you list the contents of two directories
[15:06] <seb128> yeah, but "absoluteFileName" is about a filename
[15:06] <seb128> as the name indicate
[15:06] <seb128> not about a dir
[15:06] <seb128> it works if you do "dir.absolutefilename("entry")"
[15:06] <Laney> don't understand
[15:06] <seb128> not sure about "/some/other/dir"
[15:06] <Laney> what does line 17 do?
[15:07] <seb128> oh ok
[15:07] <seb128> I though you were speaking about
[15:07] <seb128>         QDir customSoundsDir("/custom"+dirString);
[15:07] <seb128> sorry
[15:07] <happyaron> Laney: what about packages like youker-assistant?
[15:08] <Laney> oh that's QDir customSoundsDir("/custom").absoluteFilePath(dirString), no?
[15:08] <Laney> pretty sure that works
[15:08] <Laney> happyaron: already in there
[15:10] <happyaron> your list is only additional to the existing right?
[15:10] <Laney> yep
[15:10] <happyaron> cool
[15:11] <seb128> Laney, with dirString = /usr/share/sounds ?
[15:11] <Laney> yeah I think you can do that
[15:11] <seb128> that function is weirdly named
[15:11] <Laney> but try it
[15:23] <GunnarHj> happyaron: Any opinion on bug #1342677?
[15:25] <happyaron> GunnarHj: I don't think the menu is needed either
[15:25] <happyaron> GunnarHj: at least for all derivatives that is using language-selector
[15:26] <GunnarHj> happyaron: Right. Kubuntu would be a special case.
[15:27] <GunnarHj> happyaron: And debian itself. Not very likely that they would start using l-s.
[15:27] <happyaron> I think Osamu is more interesting to something like im-chooser? not sure
[15:28] <GunnarHj> happyaron: What's im-chooser?
[15:28] <happyaron> current IM start-up process isn't all ideal. it doesn't play well with event-driven desktops
[15:29] <happyaron> GunnarHj: the Fedora approach
[15:29] <GunnarHj> happyaron: Well, that's about the overall design of im-config...
[15:30] <happyaron> it's already rewritten once from the old school im-switch
[15:30] <happyaron> much better than before
[15:31] <GunnarHj> happyaron: Yeay, you advocated its implementation at the time. :)
[15:32] <happyaron> it works as designed at least, the problem for event-driven desktops are because of design. the problem in im-switch are more about the implementation.
[15:37] <GunnarHj> happyaron: Ok. To be honest, the expression "event-driven" is over my head.
[15:42] <happyaron> sort of upstart/systemd user session, plus some more dbus activation
[15:42] <happyaron> seb128: am I correct? ^^^^^
[15:42] <seb128> happyaron, about what? sorry, doing several things at the same time
[15:44] <happyaron> seb128: event-driven desktop
[15:44] <seb128> I don't know about the im-config specifics
[15:44] <seb128> but you should be able to get whatever you need to work
[15:45] <seb128> it's just a matter of finding the right events
[15:46] <happyaron> GunnarHj is trying to see what does event-driven desktop means/works
[15:46] <willcooke> ohnoez - didrock's site is down again, and Cloudflair isn't doing its thing
[15:47] <GunnarHj> happyaron: But we have had either upstart or systemd all the time, haven't we?
[15:48] <happyaron> GunnarHj: use the same way of booting system services to manage desktop sessions
[15:49] <happyaron> GunnarHj: so effectively upstart/systemd is managing it
[15:51] <GunnarHj> happyaron: I know we have /usr/share/upstart/sessions/im-config.conf in Ubuntu.
[15:52] <happyaron> but for setting XIM, it's still required to hook into the xsession script sequence
[15:53] <happyaron> and another problem is we aren't to change the variables on the fly, while im-chooser provides some degree of support (but it's not using systemd)
[15:55] <GunnarHj> happyaron: Changing env. variables on the fly is a tricky one for all variables, isn't it?
[15:55] <happyaron> yes I agree, but unfortunately it's that way for ages
[15:56] <happyaron> better to get it changed in Mir/Unity8
[15:56] <GunnarHj> Ok.
[16:02] <seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8574622/
[16:02] <seb128> Laney, without the qWarning of course
[16:03] <seb128> oh, and moving the "    QStringList soundsList;" in the if
[16:09] <Laney> seb128: line 12 dirlist[i]?
[16:11] <seb128> Laney, oh, yeah, thanks
[16:12] <seb128> soundsDir[i] seems to work
[16:12] <seb128> but it wouldn't filter things out
[16:13] <seb128> Laney, otherwise looks ok to you?
[16:13] <Laney> hmm
[16:13] <Laney> operator[] is supposed to work
[16:13] <Laney> i.e. not having dirList at all
[16:13] <seb128> Laney, it does
[16:13] <seb128> Laney, but as said, it wouldn't filter things out
[16:13] <seb128>         soundsDir.setFilter(QDir::Files | QDir::NoSymLinks);
[16:13] <seb128> it would list subdirs
[16:14] <Laney> it's supposed to be the same as using entryList though
[16:14] <seb128> or symlinks
[16:14] <seb128> oh
[16:14] <seb128> with the filter?
[16:14] <seb128> let me try
[16:14] <Laney> I suppose if you call it after setting the filter
[16:14] <Laney> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qdir.html#operator-5b-5d
[16:14] <Laney> and count() instead of size()
[16:15] <seb128> Laney, .size() is what is used in the http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qstringlist.html "Iterating over the strings" example
[16:15] <seb128> Laney, but I can change it
[16:15] <Laney> no no
[16:16] <Laney> count is on the QDir
[16:16] <seb128> oh
[16:16] <seb128> right
[16:16] <Laney> well it's supposed to work
[16:18] <seb128> but it's an uint
[16:19] <seb128> let's make i one as well!
[16:19] <Laney> in line 31 I would use QDir("/custom").absoluteFilePath(dirString)
[16:19] <Laney> might be me being OCD
[16:21] <seb128> yeah, I don't know why you insist so much on .absoluteFilePath ;-)
[16:21] <seb128> it's like doing an extra type conversion to use a QDir
[16:21] <seb128> and call a method on it then
[16:21] <seb128> where you can concatenate 2 strings for the same result
[16:22] <seb128> that code is using accountsservice, it's not like it was going to run on win32 tomorrow :-)
[16:24]  * Laney twitches
[16:27] <seb128> that code is using accountsservice, it's not like it was going to run on win32 tomorrow :-)
[16:27] <seb128> ups
[16:27] <seb128> that change leads to duplicate items
[16:28] <Laney> which?
 in line 31 I would use QDir("/custom").absoluteFilePath(dirString)
[16:29] <seb128>         qWarning() << QDir("/custom").absoluteFilePath(dirString);
[16:29] <seb128> 2014-10-16 18:28:39,587 - WARNING - "/usr/share/sounds/ubuntu/ringtones/"
[16:31] <seb128>         qWarning() << QDir("/custom").absoluteFilePath("/usr/share");
[16:31] <seb128> 2014-10-16 18:30:58,180 - WARNING - "/usr/share"
[16:31] <seb128>
[16:31] <Laney> I just read something that ruins my argument
[16:31] <Laney> Qt uses "/" as a universal directory separator in the same way that "/" is used as a path separator in URLs. If you always use "/" as a directory separator, Qt will translate your paths to conform to the underlying operating system.
[16:31] <seb128> Laney, in any case, seems like .absoluteFilePath doesn't like directories arguments
[16:32] <Laney> isn't it that /custom doesn't exist?
[16:32] <Laney> try with /etc
[16:32] <seb128> it does exist
[16:32] <seb128> I've it with some custom sounds in it
[16:32] <seb128> to make sure they are listed and working
[16:32] <Laney> oh right
[16:32] <Laney> remove the leading /
[16:32] <seb128> "custom"?
[16:32] <Laney> that makes sense
[16:32] <Laney> no
[16:32] <Laney> usr/share
[16:32] <seb128> oh
[16:33] <seb128> I'm not doing type version and then replacement, you are going to have to deal with string concat there :p
[16:34] <seb128> type conversion*
[16:34] <Laney> I would probably give up at this point
[16:35] <Laney> put a space around the + at least? :P
[16:35] <seb128> :-)
[16:35] <Laney> this is like how I get annoyed if drawers aren't shut completely
[16:36] <Laney> or if the curtain isn't fully closed
[16:36] <Laney> orrrrrrr if the CDs aren't lined up on the shelf
[16:36]  * Laney argh
[16:36] <ogra_> shudder !
[16:36] <Laney> ogra_: imagine the duvet isn't the right way up
[16:36] <Laney> so the buttons are AT THE TOP
[16:36]  * Laney screams
[16:36] <ogra_> argh !!!
[16:36] <ogra_> i so feel with you !
[16:37] <seb128> Laney, kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/sound-custom-ringtones/+merge/238595
[16:38] <kenvandine> seb128, i'll look
[16:38] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[16:38] <Laney> seb128: 'oem customization'
[16:38] <seb128> kenvandine, it's sort of important, they added a custom ringtone/sms sound in /custom and the UI was not handling those dirs, so wrong selection and no way to pick back the default sounds if you try something else
[16:38]  * Laney coughs
[16:39] <seb128> Laney, that comment was on the pastebin, feel free to tell me how to change it ;-)
[16:39] <Laney> you wrote eom
[16:40] <ogra_> that still has all three letters though
[16:40] <seb128> oh
[16:41] <kenvandine> seb128, so critical, but not before the image is promoted right?
[16:41] <Laney> it feels weird to have /custom hardcoded like that
[16:41] <Laney> but looks fine
[16:42] <seb128> kenvandine, guess so
[16:43] <seb128> Laney, well, it's our defined scheme, I don't think it's going to change
[16:43] <Laney> I mean inside the function
[16:43] <Laney> a function called listSounds taking a directory which gives you sounds from another directory
[16:43] <Laney> bit weird
[16:44] <Laney> but it's okay I think
[16:44] <seb128> well, it's a directory and its "overlay" in some way
[16:44] <seb128> implementation detail
[16:45] <seb128> it's looking for the same dir under /custom
[16:45] <seb128> but yeah, a bit hackish
[16:46] <Laney> the alternative would be to make it take a list of directories
[16:46] <Laney> oh man that's nicer
[16:48] <seb128> list of directories?
[16:48] <seb128> I don't think it makes a difference in practice
[16:49] <Laney> not claiming it does
[16:49] <seb128> I would sort of like change to look the gtk mir backend issue now
[16:49] <seb128> rather than keep refactoring the settings changeset
[16:49] <Laney> I already said it's okay
[16:50] <seb128> yeah
[16:50] <seb128> feel free to comment on the mp ;-)
[17:19] <Laney> bye!
[17:20] <seb128> have a good evening!
[17:37] <willcooke> g/night
[20:36] <SonikkuAmerica> Why is there no WPA2 Enterprise support?
[20:36] <SonikkuAmerica> (in the GUI)
[20:36] <SonikkuAmerica> (on Unity 8, of course)


[16:05] <Superirale> Help can i run 64 bit ubuntuwith vmware on 32 bit windows 7 host
[16:07] <PeterEH> Superirale, I think not ..
[16:09] <PeterEH> Superirale, ..but then again - try looking at this http://communities.vmware.com/thread/428308?start=0&tstart=0
[21:23] <raub> Have sa bit of a dhcp issue. /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.leases in the box (12.04LTS) properly reports the domain name (option domain-name), but hostname -f only shows the hostname, not the FQDN.


[19:05] <cm-t> hi
[19:06]  * cm-t using webchat, loged on ubuntu-tv, didnt install clien,
[19:59] <bobweaver> ping tgm4883
[19:59] <tgm4883> bobweaver, pong
[19:59] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  can you join google hangout to help with mythtv stuff ?
[20:00] <bobweaver> send me your email and I will send invite
[20:00] <tgm4883> what do you need help with?
[20:00] <bobweaver> france stuff
[20:00] <tgm4883> france stuff?
[20:00] <bobweaver> on remote box for ubuntu-fr
[20:00] <tgm4883> give me  a few minutes
[20:00] <bobweaver> Cool
[20:00] <tgm4883> you sent it right before, I just wasn't available
[20:01] <bobweaver> I will send another one
[20:03] <bobweaver> email has been sent take your time tgm4883
[20:04] <cm-t>   #ubuntu-tv-fr if you need writting to us
[20:12] <tgm4883> bobweaver, I didn't seem to get it this time :/
[20:12] <bobweaver> ok will send again
[23:09] <bobweaverstv> ping mhall119
[23:10] <bobweaverstv> want to join hangout to tell these people more about the community side of things with Ubuntu TV and explain better then I could about how the community is involved and things like the facebook google+ and what not.
[23:11] <bobweaverstv> I will send invite
[23:14] <mhall119> bobweaverstv: now?
[23:15] <mhall119> bobweaverstv: sorry, I can't do it now, it's the middle of dinner time
[23:15] <bobweaver> yeah we are hanging ou now
[23:15] <bobweaver> cool just thought that I would ask
[23:15] <bobweaver> there will be more. It is just that they say that there is going to be alot people there and I do not want to give out bad info so I thought that you would be + person for job.
[23:16] <bobweaver> maybe in the next couple of days ?
[23:24] <mhall119> bobweaverstv: sure, if I know about it ahead of time I will try to join
[23:24] <mhall119> fwiw, you know as much about the TV as I do
[23:25] <olive> the party is 17-18 (november)
[23:48] <bobweaver> mhall119,  we will be meeting tomorrow a couple of hours after noon are time
[23:48] <bobweaver> if you would like I think that it would be a good idea for you to get to know these fine people


[05:28] <rohan2020> can someone help me register or join #ubuntu irc chat
[05:29] <rohan2020> it says register first but how can anyone help me


 Compile your own bread from source!
[07:59] <awilkins> Sadly, this takes 2-3 hours
[08:00] <awilkins> The guy who invents the bread machine with integral time machine that takes it back in time just in time to have the loaf ready would make a mint
[08:02] <Myrtti> the main problem is the lack of hot water
[08:02] <Myrtti> can't start baking bread and not be able to wash my hands properly
[08:03] <DJones> awilkins: Quick setting on bread machine gives passable bread in an hour for me
[08:04] <Myrtti> I'm wondering what kitchen gadgets I could forgo for getting a bread machine
[08:06] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:08] <bashrc> morning
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bread makers rock. Really.
[08:14] <awilkins> I use mine as a "dough maker"
[08:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not only do they produce lovely bread whilst I am asleep, they also make great Pizza dough in 45 minutes (that also works really well for dough-balls and making other roll-type products) & Naan bread dough that's proved in ~2hrs
[08:16] <DJones> Myrtti: If you're going to drop a kichen gadget in favour of a bread maker, I'd forget about a food processor, anyone I know with one gets one with all the attachments and maybe uses it once a year
[08:16] <Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: the word on the street is, though, that they don't make passable proper Finnish rye
[08:17] <Myrtti> DJones: I broke ours a year ago when I was trying to blitz dry onion skins I had soaked for a few days with it :-|
[08:18] <DJones> Myrtti: Out of interest, what would you have used the blitzed onion skins for?
[08:18] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Senior Health & Fitness Day! :-D
[08:19] <Myrtti> yarn dyeing, of course. https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/sets/72157632822139010/
[08:19] <DJones> Myrtti: Ah, didn't think of that, I was trying to think of a food recipe
[08:21] <DJones> What lovely road maintenance and traffic management planning by the highways agency, causing 3 hour minimum delays
[08:22] <awilkins> Hooray!
[08:22] <awilkins> Hope they are at least fixing some potholes
[08:23] <DJones> I think major resurfacing on a section of road that didn't have pothole
[08:29] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:30] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm
[08:31] <DJones> Heh, poor kitty https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=568191693297174&set=vb.196251357157878&type=2&theater
[08:42] <foobarry> Myrtti: my wife was dying wool the other day. stankt he house out
[08:53] <davmor2> Awesome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wByOv2sUZ-c
[09:02] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[09:03] <davmor2> MooDoo: hey dude you having a better day today?
[09:03] <bigcalm> davmor2: how sweet
[09:04] <davmor2> bigcalm: why would you not smile at a ticklish penguin
[09:13] <popey> DJones: I use my food mixer a fair amount ☻
[09:13] <DJones> hmmh, popey is Mary Berry....
[09:14] <popey> made a recipe that was on the front page of reddit last night
[09:15] <popey> http://theculinaryrecipes.com/double-crunch-honey-garlic-chicken-breasts/
[09:15] <popey> was yummy
[09:15] <MooDoo> davmor2: yes thanks :D
[09:16] <MooDoo> this evening I shall be making pork and bulghar stuffed peppers
[09:19] <DJones> Looks nice, but honey is too sweet for me, I'd end up being ill with that
[09:21]  * MooDoo can't stand honey
[09:21] <DJones> I also have a rule about not eating anything produced by rubbing legs together
[09:23] <popey> wierdos
[09:24] <MooDoo> lol
[09:24] <popey> garlic and honey are made for eachother
[09:25] <bigcalm> DJones: rubbing legs together?
[09:25] <DJones> bigcalm: Honey & bee's
[09:25] <bigcalm> Heh, fair enough
[09:26] <Myrtti> we watched the whole series of The Wonder of Bees with Martha Kearney few weeks ago. It was amazing
[09:27] <Myrtti> even started wondering should we get a hive if we get a bigger house with a bigger garden
[09:27] <DJones> If I had a bigger garden, I'd get chickens
[09:28] <Myrtti> that too
[09:28] <Myrtti> chicken and bees
[09:28] <awilkins> It's not the rubbing legs together that's the gross bit about honeyu
[09:28] <awilkins> It's the multi-bee bulimia party involved in processing it
[09:30] <bigcalm> o.O
[09:41] <Myrtti> I'm personally dreaming of this hand mixer http://www.braunhousehold.com/global/all-products/food-preparation/hand-mixers/multiquick-system-hand-mixer-m1070-6-in-1-0x81260901
[09:42] <Myrtti> bees knees, as they say
[09:45] <awilkins> And not the bees "blees" : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/bee-blee.jpg
[09:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> We bought one of these recently - is very good IMHO: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Andrew-James-Powerful-Processor-Attachment/dp/B0051U27RI
[09:46] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Indeed. Eating the morning porridge is always a bit weird when one remembers they are eating bee barf drizzles on heated bovine lacations thickend with oat starch.
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Quite heavy but that's fine by me.
[09:47] <awilkins> Mother has Grandmothers original Kenwood Chef
[09:47] <awilkins> Factory Reconditioned
[09:48] <bigcalm> Audio in left headphone started to deteriorate. Thought that my hearing was going. Turns out to be track I was listening to. Hearing still feels funny though
[09:48] <awilkins> Built like a Soviet Tank
[09:48] <Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, I bought the older model of the Braun multimix years ago when I didn't have a Kenwood Chef. Now I've got my mum's old one and I suppose I wouldn't necessarily need a hand mixer with the dough hooks anymore...
[09:48] <Myrtti> but yeah, need to get it looked at, one of the attachment ports is gone
[09:49] <Myrtti> otherwise works like a charm
[10:15] <ali1234> we've got bees in the roof
[10:15] <ali1234> should probably do something about that
[10:43] <Gargoyle> Can anyone offer any advice/mentoring on getting involved in helping to maintain a ppa ?
[10:45] <MooDoo> Gargoyle: do you have one now?
[10:45] <jussi> Gargoyle: If you have an intrerest, the kubuntu team runs several PPA's that always neeed more contributors, feel free to drop into #kubuntu-devel
[10:45] <MooDoo> have you seen this? - http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/apps/other-forms-of-submitting-apps/ppa/
[10:45] <Gargoyle> I was thinking one of the ubuntu ones. Specifically hadoop
[11:00] <MooDoo> Gargoyle: https://launchpad.net/~hadoop-ubuntu/+archive/dev
[11:01] <MooDoo> Gargoyle: you can contact them here if it's what you're after lol - https://launchpad.net/~hadoop-ubuntu
[11:03] <Gargoyle> MooDoo: Yeah, I've fired off an email to the list. Hopefully with some guidance I can help get that PPA updated to a newer version of hadoop
[11:06] <MooDoo> Gargoyle: brill :D
[11:23] <mapps> hey all
[11:31] <MooDoo> howdy mapps
[11:33]  * MartijnVdS waves as well
[11:37] <bigcalm> Afternoon
[11:38] <MooDoo> wtf - http://action.sumofus.org/a/Facebook-app-taps-phones/?sub=fb sigh
[11:39] <bigcalm> Another reason why I don't use the app :)
[11:41] <mapps> i dont have a facebook ac
[11:41] <mapps> LD
[11:41] <mapps> :D
[11:41] <mapps> too time consuming
[11:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha ha... Look who appears on the first page of this Google search for Sriracha Sauce: https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=Sri+Racha+sauce&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gl=uk
[11:50] <shauno> the oatmeal?
[11:50] <bigcalm> That may be because it's linking results from our G+ accounts
[11:50] <bigcalm> shauno: popey
[11:50] <Myrtti> The Oatmeal
[11:50] <shauno> that's why I was curious.  I don't see anyone from here in the results
[11:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've run out :-(
[11:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh you don't see popey at the bottom?
[11:51] <bigcalm> McDonalds should have Sriracha sauce as an option. I ...
[11:51] <bigcalm> https://plus.google.com/109365858706205035322/.../Sbq2NntJ...
[11:51] <bigcalm> Alan Pope
[11:51] <bigcalm> 23 Sep 2012 - McDonalds should have Sriracha sauce as an option. I might take some with me next time I go. Sriracha makes everything better
[11:51] <Myrtti> no, if you search in porn mode
[11:51] <bigcalm> !pastebin | bigcalm
[11:51] <bigcalm> !pastebin > bigcalm
[11:52] <bigcalm> Oh, > isn't a thing
[11:52] <MartijnVdS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNL8j0jkHeg !
[11:52] <shauno> hm, interesting
[11:52] <shauno> I made bacon-choc-chip once.  that went well
[12:01] <bigcalm> perr14 - perth?
[12:10] <DJones> Heh, email received asking me to "Download file at google disk drive service - dropbox" with a link to a dropbox stored file....Yeah, how daft do they think I am
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> ...
[12:10] <bigcalm> I'd download it just to then pick through the payload
[12:11] <DJones> That would mean me wasting time messing about with it
[12:22] <bigcalm> Wow. OSN just told me that my mouse's battery is low at 25% remaining
[12:22] <bigcalm> That's cool!
[12:23] <TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: Cool. Which mouse? And what doo-mahicky you using to get the reading?
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> OSN?
[12:24] <TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: On Screen Notification
[12:25] <DJones> TwistedLucidity: Its default in Ubuntu, works for me with MS & cheap own brand mice
[12:25] <TwistedLucidity> Hmmm...using a Logitech unit, never seen any setting to get a report on battery health
[12:25] <MartijnVdS> ah.. I thought it was a typo :)
[12:27] <DJones> Trying to think back to when I first saw the battery notification, think it was 13.04 or 13.10
[12:28] <TwistedLucidity> I'm on 14.04 but using KDE; it may not have it
[12:28] <bigcalm> TwistedLucidity: I didn't set it up to do this, it just worked out of the box. Mouse is Logitech M570
[12:28] <DJones> Looks like 13.10
[12:28] <bigcalm> TwistedLucidity: I'm using Unity in 14.04
[12:29] <DJones> bigcalm: Have you noticed this before on the power management page http://i.stack.imgur.com/q28iW.png
[12:29] <bigcalm> DJones: rarely look at that screen. But the 'Wireless mouse' section appears in it for me :)
[12:30] <DJones> bigcalm: I think it only came in from 13.10
[12:30] <bigcalm> Fair enough
[12:30] <bigcalm> It's a cool thing though
[12:30] <bigcalm> I just tried to close the 'Power' window within your screenshot
[12:30]  * bigcalm sighs
[12:30] <TwistedLucidity> Ooo....found the lock key activation/deactiviation notifications though. That'll be handy on the ThinkPad which has no LEDs.
[12:31] <bigcalm> TwistedLucidity: where is that setting, keyboard?
[12:31] <TwistedLucidity> Well, I'm using KDE
[12:32] <bigcalm> Ah
[12:32]  * bigcalm goes back to sleep
[12:36] <TwistedLucidity> I'm using UPower 0.9.23, so I should be able to see the Logitech guff....
[13:00] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: you might want to look at Solaar much nicer for Logitech wireless stuff
[13:01] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Thanks
[13:05] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: http://davmor2.co.uk/~davmor2/screenshots-desktop/solaar.png clicking on each gives you a nice overview and you get an indicator that displays the lowest battery level
[13:06] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Seems to have dependencies on WINE and Mono. Will check it out.
[13:08] <dogmatic69> anyone know why I cant paste more than 20 char over ssh?
[13:09] <dogmatic69> hangs the session
[13:10] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: are you looking from source or ppa the ubuntu build has the following http://paste.ubuntu.com/7536516/
[13:10] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: 'buntu PPA.
[13:11] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: https://launchpad.net/~daniel.pavel/+archive/solaar
[13:11] <TwistedLucidity> That's the one
[13:12] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: thats the one I have installed and those are the deps it might be that the original version did while he figured out stuff
[13:13] <TwistedLucidity> Not sure, just checked what it needed and a whole slew of WINE 1.6 etc came up.
[13:14]  * czajkowski pokes davmor2
[13:16]  * davmor2 grabs his big proddy stick and wallops czajkowski with it, long time no see how's life czajkowski
[13:16] <czajkowski> davmor2: ouchies!!!!
[13:17] <davmor2> czajkowski: Oh come on matchsticks taped together don't hurt that much :)
[13:17] <davmor2> czajkowski: how's life?
[13:18] <czajkowski> busy and good
[13:18] <MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski fight......
[14:02] <MooDoo> wow where has today gone, it's almost time to go home.
[14:12] <bigcalm> MooDoo: you have short days :(
[14:13] <MooDoo> bigcalm: 7 - 3:30
[14:13] <bigcalm> MooDoo: you have poop hours :(
[14:13] <MooDoo> bigcalm: my choice
[14:13] <bigcalm> :)
[14:14] <MooDoo> bigcalm: with two young kids, it's always been easy for me to get up at early [5:30]
[14:15] <bigcalm> Working from home, I struggle to get out of bed before 8.55am
[14:15] <MooDoo> bigcalm: wish I could work from home, would be easier lol
[14:15] <bigcalm> Children would be the death of me
[14:16] <davmor2> bigcalm: your kids would be, but that would be because they would be psycho axe wielding maniacs ;)
[14:17] <bigcalm> I'd better continue to not have children then :D
[14:17] <MooDoo> lol
[14:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
[14:18] <SuperMatt> god damn, all I want to do is install an arch container in LXC, but it seems near impossible
[14:18] <SuperMatt> because you already need pacman installed
[14:18] <SuperMatt> oh well
[14:37] <davmor2> SuperMatt: I thought there was an arch build available maybe I'm wrong
[14:39] <davmor2> SuperMatt: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Linux_Containers this might help
[14:46] <SuperMatt> davmor2: there is a build, but it uses pacman and pacstrap to do a lot of the work
[16:35] <Gargoyle> I'm trying to get hadoop up and running on 12.04, and there's a page on the hadoop site which says "Check that there isn't an entry for your hostname mapped to <IP_ADDRESS> or <IP_ADDRESS> in /etc/hosts (Ubuntu is notorious for this)"
[16:35] <Gargoyle> How should the hostname be correctly configured? Just to the machines real IP ?
[16:41] <bigcalm> Gargoyle: if 127.0.x.y is in /etc/hosts and not pointing at localhost, then it can be safely removed
[17:06] <Gargoyle> bigcalm: So the <IP_ADDRESS> can just be removed, and the <IP_ADDRESS> should only point to localhost and not my.domain.name
[17:07] <daftykins> sounds fine
[17:07] <daftykins> keep a backup of hosts as-is
[17:08] <bigcalm> !backup
[17:08] <bigcalm> Okay, maybe not that level of backup :)
[17:09] <bigcalm> sudo cp /etc/hosts /etc/hosts.dist
[17:16] <Gargoyle> I think it's actually vagrant adding the extra hostnames to the 127* records
[17:20] <bigcalm> That seems likely
[17:20] <bigcalm> I have this in one of my vagrant machines' /etc/hosts files
[17:21] <bigcalm> <IP_ADDRESS> ep-web-dev ep-web-dev
[17:24] <daftykins> <IP_ADDRESS> tends to be dnsmasq too
[17:24] <daftykins> likely present in your resolv.conf
[17:25] <popey> purged resolvconf
[17:25] <popey> silly software
[17:32] <daftykins> manual is definitely far nicer
[18:50] <Azelphur> Anyone have any suggestions on what I should get wifi wise for a small cafe?
[18:54] <ali1234> a cup of tea?
[18:55] <ali1234> bacon sandwich?
[18:55] <ali1234> you're going to want something you can lock down. i heard draytek are good for that
[18:55] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:56] <Azelphur> ali1234: doesn't really need locking down, atm they are just using a very typical plusnet home ADSL setup
[18:56] <Azelphur> and they just have wifi codes on the wall, they aren't too concerned with people standing outside and using it
[18:58] <DJones> Azelphur: "typical home ADSL setup" ? Maybe they need to think about a business setup rather than a home setup
[18:59] <Azelphur> DJones: well mostly they just need a not shit router, it actually works somewhat ok now, they just need a bit better range and something that won't fall over with too many clients connected to it
[18:59] <Azelphur> it's not an internet cafe, just a cafe that has wifi
[19:01] <DJones> Yes, but its still a business thats giving wifi out, that could cause problems trying to use a home network provider, just in terms  of using a home network for a business
[19:01] <Azelphur> DJones: yea, I've already told them they need to get off that ADSL connection, hoping they can get fibre but it's a bit up in the air since the cafe is in a strange location
[19:02] <DJones> I'm just thinking in terms of protecting the owner if something dodgy happens or the service got abuses
[19:03] <Azelphur> DJones: that's a good point, I suppose I should make sure they are on plusnet business not home
[19:05] <DJones> At the end of the day, the owner is responsible, but at least being able to show its a business account rather than a personal account will probably offer a bit more protection
[19:06] <ali1234> oh, i got a helpouts invite
[19:07] <ali1234> i don't even remember asking for one
[19:07] <DJones> Wasn;t that something MooDoo was involved in, ubuntu helpouts ?
[19:07] <DJones> Maybe from  that
[19:07] <ali1234> yeah... that was ages ago
[19:08] <DJones> Can't be that long, my memory of it hasn't faded :)
[19:09] <daftykins> meatspace or online?
[19:12] <Azelphur> but yea, we seem to have drifted over the original question, router suggestions?
[19:12] <Azelphur> I was thinking RT-N16 with OpenWRT
[20:29] <daftykins> Azelphur: got a link for that one?
[20:29] <Azelphur> daftykins: the RT-N16?
[20:29] <daftykins> yes sir
[20:30] <Azelphur> daftykins: it's an asus router, you can buy it pretty much anywhere, it's not hard to find xD
[20:30] <daftykins> yeah i just thought if you had it up already i'd look at the specs and comment
[20:31] <Azelphur> nah I don't have it
[20:31] <daftykins> we're on VDSL over here these days so i don't even know of consumer routers that are appropriate O_O
[20:31] <daftykins> our ISP provides ones, but they're _horrible_
[20:32] <daftykins> non-customisable DNS unless you telnet tweak
[20:32] <Azelphur> VDSL is FTTC right?
[20:32] <daftykins> probably
[20:32] <Azelphur> daftykins: should have a BT infinity router, plugs right into the wan port
[20:33] <daftykins> don't have BT here sir
[20:33] <Azelphur> ah, some weird VDSL then :P
[20:33] <daftykins> well i'm sure it's the same kinda tech, as i get 40/5
[20:33] <daftykins> it's just they don't provide the modems
[20:34] <daftykins> i've got one though :D firmware unlocked Huawei \o/
[20:34] <daftykins> was about £8 on ebay
[20:34] <Azelphur> :)
[20:39] <daftykins> pretty bog standard 'n' there then
[20:39] <Azelphur> indeed
[20:40] <daftykins> 3 antennae but no comment of true x:y streams etc
[21:03] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mlj215wixvqeksx/2014-05-27%2004.34.46.jpg
[21:03] <daftykins> anyone seen this before?
[21:03] <daftykins> my mate has this with trusty on his/our asus laptop with optimus
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> there's your problem
[21:03] <daftykins> ;D
[21:03] <daftykins> i don't think he's even attempting to use the nvidia
[21:04] <daftykins> actually the external display is running on the VGA which comes off the nvidia i believe