[12:40] <leinardi> Hi, I'm trying to distribute GWE via Snap (https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/help-porting-gwe-nvidia-info-and-overclock-app-to-snap/9440) and I was wondering if someone here can give me some real time support.
[12:48] <leinardi> diddledan, popey told me that you have done some gnome stuff recently, do you have some time to help me getting started?
[14:45] <Chipaca> leinardi: maybe during the week...?
[14:45] <Chipaca> people go outside for the weekend
[14:47] <leinardi> Chipaca, I work during the week but I can be available after 18:00 CET. I work on this project on my free time so, usually, during the weekend.
[14:47] <popey> hey leinardi happy to help
[14:47] <Chipaca> popey: go outside! i hear there's icecream
[14:47] <cwayne> Chipaca: what's this "outside" you speak of
[14:47] <leinardi> :D
[14:48] <popey> I went outside. Didn't like it much.
[14:48] <Chipaca> ah, fair enough
[14:48] <cwayne> There's bees and stuff out there
[14:48] <Chipaca> did you say beer
[14:48]  * Chipaca runs
[14:48] <popey> BEES!
[14:49] <popey> leinardi: snap install gnome-3-26-1604
[14:49] <popey> I have seen that error too
[14:49] <popey> it tells you the wrong content snap to use, right?
[14:49] <Chipaca> popey: https://youtu.be/Nni0rTLg5B8?t=40
[14:50] <popey> ooh oooh, i know wht
[14:50] <popey> *why
[14:50] <popey> leinardi: how are you building this given your snap/snapcraft.yaml isn't in the root of the project but buried in dist?
[14:51] <leinardi> popey, yep, that's the error, but I don't get why should I install both gnome-3-26-1604 and gnome-3-30-1804, is that normal?
[14:51] <popey> no, i know why it's happening and want to build here on my laptop to prove it
[14:51] <leinardi> on my local branch is on the root, but I would like to move it to dist if possible
[14:52] <leinardi> I can push another commit so that we have the same location for the snapcraft.yaml
[14:52] <popey> how can i get the latest source and yaml?
[14:55] <leinardi> popey, ok just pushed, you can checkout the branch feature/snap
[14:55] <popey> ok, lemme have a play
[14:56] <leinardi> sure, thanks!
[15:02] <mup> PR snapd#6436 opened: interfaces: add system-backup interface <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6436>
[15:17] <popey> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/5aQABZPM/
[15:18] <popey> ^ leinardi
[15:19] <popey> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/iwsIb2xx/meson-log.txt
[15:20] <leinardi> popey, could it be that you are missing some of the dependencies? Are you able to run GWE with the ./run.sh?
[15:20] <leinardi> deps: sudo apt install python3-pip libcairo2-dev libgirepository1.0-dev libglib2.0-dev libdazzle-1.0-dev gir1.2-gtksource-3.0 gir1.2-appindicator3-0.1 python3-gi-cairo
[15:20] <popey> thats me building it as a snap
[15:20] <popey> will check those are build-packages..
[15:24] <popey> Dependency gtk+-3.0 found: NO found '3.22.30' but need: '>=3.24'
[15:24] <popey> :(
[15:24] <popey> do you really need 3.24?
[15:26] <leinardi> popey, unfortunately yes, due to libdazzle
[15:26] <popey> This is a bit of a blocker. There's ways around it though.
[15:26] <leinardi> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libdazzle/issues/31
[15:27] <popey> One way is to add a ppa from the ubuntu desktop team, which pulls in newer GTK
[15:27] <popey> Another way is to build gtk (and whatever else) from sauce
[15:28] <popey> I believe there is work ongoing to fix this
[15:28] <popey> kenvandine and diddledan are working on a gnome extension for snapcraft
[15:29] <leinardi> the ppa needs to be added to the host machine, right? I guess is needed only for Ubuntu < 18.10. I'm on 18.10 I have the right version
[15:29] <popey> Well...
[15:29] <kenvandine> Build for core18
[15:29] <popey> Snaps are built against a runtime. The main ones are core(16) and core18
[15:29] <popey> kenvandine: i am building for core18
[15:29] <kenvandine> Is my recommendation
[15:30] <popey> but this app needs newer gtk
[15:30] <kenvandine> Oh
[15:30] <kenvandine> The future build snap will help there... But not ready yet
[15:30] <kenvandine> You can also build you own gtk part
[15:31] <popey> got any examples?
[15:31] <leinardi> I'm confused, what is the gnome-3-30-1804 that I have in the snapcraft.yaml? Isn't that providing gtk 3.24?
[15:33] <popey> That's used at runtime, to provide some support libs and a launcher
[15:33] <popey> We're (I'm) stuck at the "building" part
[15:33] <popey> When you built on 18.10, you're going to likely end up with a snap that won't run on anything
[15:33] <popey> Because it will be built against newer libc and friends.
[15:34] <leinardi> I see
[15:34] <popey> We recommend building in a clean container or vm running 18.04 or 16.04
[15:34] <popey> now, 16.04 is too old for your application, so prefer 18.04.
[15:34] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rtv4V37Ddm/
[15:35] <popey> that's the yaml I have so far, note the addition of "base: core18" which tells snapcraft to build against core 18 which is ~ ubuntu 18.04
[15:36] <popey> Unless we go down the path of building the world from scratch, starting with newer GTK, we may have to put this on pause.
[15:36] <popey> I mean, I'm happy to help you move forward, and build these bits to get you moving :)
[15:36] <popey> until the work ken mentioned is done.
[15:37] <popey> This is a pitfall of having a beautiful app on the bleeding edge :)
[15:37] <popey> but you'd likely have to build quite a bit of gtk / gnome / gi to get this working.
[15:38] <leinardi> is there any ETA it? Are we talking about weeks, months or 20.04?
[15:38] <leinardi> *for it
[15:39] <popey> Great question. Might be faster to build those parts :S
[15:39] <leinardi> :)
[15:39] <popey> I was hoping kenvandine might have a repo on gitlab somewhere which we can steal parts from :)
[15:40] <leinardi> sorry for the silly question but it is still not clear to me: shouldn't be enough to have the proper runtime and just build on a host that has GTK 3.24?
[15:40] <popey> 18.10 for example? No, because it will be built against the libc that's in 18.10
[15:41] <popey> So someone on 16.04 installs your snap and it will fall over with horrible LIBC errors in capital letters
[15:42] <kenvandine> https://gitlab.gnome.org/Community/Ubuntu/gnome-3-28-1804-sdk/blob/master/snapcraft.yaml#L297
[15:43] <popey> GOOD LORD
[15:43] <kenvandine> That's a gtk part, just ignore the build-environment line
[15:43] <popey> and bump source-branch?
[15:43] <kenvandine> But, you might run into issues
[15:43] <popey> haha, no shit :)
[15:44] <kenvandine> I gotta run now.. but I can help out on Monday
[15:44] <popey> thanks!
[15:45] <leinardi> mmm please be patient, just need to ask more questions to better understand :) When we are talking about building, we are talking just about libdazzle, right? Because My app is a PyGOpject app, so I don't have to build anything beside libdazzle, or not?
[15:46] <leinardi> what I am expecting is that gnome-3-30-1804 is providing all the gnome 3.30 support, but I still need to provide libdazzle since is not part of it
[15:46] <leinardi> or am I missing something?
[15:47] <popey> gnome-3-30-1804 doesn't provide the stuff needed at *build* time.
[15:47] <popey> only runtime components
[15:48] <popey> The problem is that you're targetting 3.24 which isn't available in Ubuntu 18.04 repos
[15:48] <popey> (I mean, libdazzle needs that)
[15:50] <leinardi> ok but, I don't get why for a user with gnome-3-30-1804 installed would be a problem to run the snap build on my machine, if I bundle libdazzle binary (I'm an Android dev, so not really familiar with C dependencies)
[15:53] <popey> if you build on a system which has newer libc, it likely won't work on a system with older libc
[15:53] <popey> this is part of the reason snaps exist at all. You build in a specific environment (core 16 ~ Ubuntu 16.04, or core 18 ~ Ubuntu 18.04).
[15:54] <popey> When the user instals the snap, they get core16 or core18 which contains the libc the app was built against, no matter what they install the snap on
[15:54] <popey> So whether they install your snap on fedora 28 or arch bleeding edge, your snap works because along comes core18 or core16 snap "runtime"
[15:54] <popey> That's all fine, and isn't the problem we need to solve today.
[15:54] <popey> The problem is *building* the thing at all on 18.04 (not 18.10)
[15:56] <leinardi> ok, now I think is clear, thanks :)
[15:56] <popey> :)
[15:58] <popey> I'll have a chat with Ken on Monday. I'll add it to discuss in our regular catch up meeting to see what our options are, okay?
[15:58] <popey> (and reply on the forum)
[15:58] <leinardi> that would be awesome, thanks a lot!
[16:00] <popey> left a placeholder reply on the forum so others don't waste time on it.
[16:01] <popey> sorry I don't have a quick answer for you
[16:03] <leinardi> no worries, I'm glad to be getting some help, I can work on other thing while we figure out how to build on 18.04 :)
[16:05] <leinardi> popey, one last question for today: do you know if this is possible? https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/specify-custom-build-directory/9671
[16:12] <diddledan> popey: leinardi: building against core18 should give you gnome 3.28 from the 18.04 repo (that's what bionic has natively)
[16:13] <leinardi> diddledan, correct, but I need gnome 3.30 / gtk 3.24
[16:15] <diddledan> aah, gtk. sorry, I misunderstood
[16:25] <diddledan> in that case then popey is right that the only way currently to get a more recent gtk is to rebuild it from source
[16:29] <leinardi> diddledan, I see, thanks. Do you know if it's possible to specify a custom directory for the build output of snapcraft? I'm talking about the parts, prime and stage directories. I'd like to have them inside a build folder.
[16:29] <diddledan> that's not possible
[16:31] <popey> note I tweaked your yaml to not have references to snap in the prefix
[16:31] <diddledan> the idea is that you use a throwaway build system, e.g. a vm, that does everything internally to the vm
[16:31] <popey> it shouldn't be needed
[16:31] <popey> yeah, base: core18 will use multipass to build in an 18.04 vm
[16:31]  * diddledan goes to find a multipass pic
[16:32] <diddledan> https://cdn.instructables.com/FTJ/CYOV/IEB8CSW1/FTJCYOVIEB8CSW1.LARGE.jpg?auto=webp
[16:32] <leinardi> oh ok. popey: thanks, I have already pushed your changes to the feature/snap branch
[16:32] <leinardi> diddledan, :D


[23:32] <pleia2> nhaines: aw, I already have plans wednesday night :(
[23:32] <pleia2> I thought ubuntu gatherings would be thursday!
[23:33] <pleia2> (figured locals wouldn't be around wednesday)


[15:00] <s-fox> Hello
[15:11] <genupulas> s-fox:  Hey
[15:11] <genupulas> s-fox:  how are you man ?
[15:13] <s-fox> Hello genupulas, how are you?
[15:18] <genupulas> s-fox  , i am good boss
[15:18] <genupulas> s-fox:  where are you now ? Home or ?
[15:19] <s-fox> I am at home
[15:19] <s-fox> why?
[15:20] <genupulas> s-fox:  nothing just like that
[15:20] <genupulas> s-fox:   whats the GMT
[15:21] <s-fox> I will check
[15:21] <genupulas> s-fox:  hmm i am trying to motivate my studnets to Ubuntu from 2 years up to now i got one person
[15:21] <genupulas> those guys are still afraid about a word callled Linux
[15:22] <s-fox> 15:21 Sunday (GMT) - Time in United Kingdom
[15:23] <genupulas> oh ok we are opposite then mine 21:00
[15:23] <genupulas> 6 hours
[15:24] <genupulas> s-fox:  main problem we are facing in this area is Intenet
[15:24] <genupulas> a better internet
[15:26] <genupulas> s-fox:  you fell to busy i think , seeya later brother
[15:40]  * SuperEngineer hands s-fox a big bowl of deserved respect
[15:41] <s-fox> Haha, thank you :)
[17:38] <iku-iku> hello, i've been trying to change the login screen, with both gksu gedit /etc/lightdm/unity-greeter.conf and simple light dm manager but it just changed to black... thanks foir your help
[17:42] <iku-iku> AAnderson72, could you maybe help me?
[17:42] <iku-iku> plz...
[20:56] <philipballew> !vpn
[20:56] <ubot2`> For more information on vpn please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VPN
[21:12] <c0ldfyre> Can someone give me some advice? First time Unbuntu user with mild scripting knowledge. Having trouble compiling src because of constant lib errors or other issues
[21:13] <c0ldfyre> Can someone give me some advice? First time Unbuntu user with mild scripting knowledge. Having trouble compiling src because of constant lib errors or other issues
[21:18] <philipballew> c0ldfyre, whats up!
[21:18] <philipballew> I can attempt to help or say where you can find help!
[21:19] <philipballew> first off, how do you like Ubuntu?
[21:19] <c0ldfyre> I love it so far
[21:19] <c0ldfyre> Just been having trouble getting src files to play nice
[21:20] <c0ldfyre> I can post my prints if need be.  Nothing.....
[21:24] <c0ldfyre> Can anyone tell me why I get this error when I try to compile "Sourceinstaller"?
[21:24] <c0ldfyre> can any tell me why I'm getting this error when installing "sourceinstaller"
 checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes
 checking for GTK... no
 configure: error: could not detect required GTK >= 2.4
[21:25] <nlsthzn-work> src files don't respond well to hugging... they need to be taught some binary manners first...
[21:25] <c0ldfyre> sorry for the spam...
[21:25] <nlsthzn-work> c0ldfyre: sudo aptitude install build-essential
[21:26] <geirha> c0ldfyre: sudo apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev
[21:26] <geirha> Each time you get an error like that, you're missing a -dev package
[21:27] <c0ldfyre> the sudo apt install. I can just run these from term as well?
[21:28] <nlsthzn-work> correct
[21:28] <c0ldfyre> right on. lemme try
[21:28] <geirha> yes, or use the software center or synaptic if you prefer that
[21:28] <c0ldfyre> thanks guys
[21:28] <c0ldfyre> ok
[21:29] <c0ldfyre> cool. term is dwnlding them now
[21:29] <c0ldfyre> I've been tearing my hair out since like 12am
[21:29] <c0ldfyre> lol
[21:30] <nlsthzn-work> c0ldfyre: do you really need to be compiling from source?
[21:58] <c0ldfyre> What is happening here?
[21:58] <c0ldfyre> In file included from sourceinstall-gtk.c:24:0:
[21:58] <c0ldfyre> global.h:56:29: fatal error: srcinst/srcinst.h: No such file or directory
[21:58] <c0ldfyre> compilation terminated.
[21:58] <c0ldfyre> make[2]: *** [sourceinstall_gtk-sourceinstall-gtk.o] Error 1
[21:58] <c0ldfyre> make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/user/src/sourceinstall-gtk-2.5'
[21:58] <c0ldfyre> make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
[21:58] <c0ldfyre> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/user/src/sourceinstall-gtk-2.5'
[21:58] <c0ldfyre> make: *** [all] Error 2
[22:08] <jalcine> You have a link to the original tarball of that app you're building there?
[22:09] <c0ldfyre> i can get it for you. one moment while I grab it
[22:09] <c0ldfyre> sorry I didn't use this link earlier . http://paste.ubuntu.com/869003/
[22:11] <c0ldfyre> ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/sourceinstall/sourceinstall-gtk-2.5rc2.tar.gz
[22:11] <c0ldfyre> that's the direct download link
[22:13] <jalcine> Hmm. GTK depends, might have to pull in a few more packages onto Kubuntu.
[22:13] <c0ldfyre> how do I do that? I've got the build essentials
[22:16] <c0ldfyre> ohh.. I didn't read that right the first time..lol
[22:26] <jalcine> Lol
[22:28] <jalcine> c0ldfyre: you know where to find srcinst? the base package?
[22:28] <jalcine> This looks like a UI to a library.
[22:29] <jalcine> However, if that was the case, it shouldn't have configured properly.
[22:29] <jalcine> Hmm.
[22:32] <c0ldfyre> sorry, didn't see your response
[22:32] <c0ldfyre> reading*
[22:32] <c0ldfyre> what would you suggest I do?
[22:35] <jalcine> Find the srcinst dependency, I'm not sure where it is.
[22:35] <c0ldfyre> ok
[22:40] <stlsaint> hey folks
[22:40] <stlsaint> sup all
[22:53] <jalcine> Hey stlsaint
[22:53] <jalcine> I'm finally getting a hang and learning my position in F/OSS.
[22:53] <stlsaint> jalcine: sup
[22:54] <jalcine> Did you check out http://open-advice.org? Best thing I read in a while.
[22:55] <jalcine> Working on code once more. :)
[22:56] <c0ldfyre> wow... it's a nightmare asking for help in some of these channels...  I dun know what's up
[22:58] <c0ldfyre> I've had linux for less than 24hrs so it's expected
[22:59] <c0ldfyre> windows/mac usr
[22:59] <kristian-aalborg> good evening
[22:59] <philipballew> kristian-aalborg, hello
[22:59] <kristian-aalborg> I need to get symlinks working with sshfs
[22:59] <stlsaint> c0ldfyre: thats why i only remain in the BT team channels for support
[22:59] <kristian-aalborg> sshfs user@host:/path/to/mount/ ~/mountpoint -oauto_cache,reconnect,volname=mountname,defer_permissions,transform_symlinks,follow_symlinks
[22:59] <kristian-aalborg> is this proper?
[23:00] <kristian-aalborg> it's from a blog post I found on the subject... the spacing seems wrong
[23:00] <stlsaint> ive never used symlinks over ssh
[23:00] <stlsaint> or sshfs
[23:00] <kristian-aalborg> I'd actually forgotten that they were "sym"
[23:02] <c0ldfyre> ok. Jalcine. what did you mean earlier about the srcinst?
[23:02] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: I've asked you 3 times now in #ubuntu
[23:02] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: WHY are you trying to compile GTK
[23:03] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: gtk is massivly important to your system, so why are you trying to compile this,
[23:03] <c0ldfyre> im not in #unbuntu. And I've responded to you twice now.
[23:03] <c0ldfyre> fail.. wrong window
[23:03] <ikonia> you've just left #ubuntu without responding
[23:03] <ikonia> so why don't you actually answer in the main window here - "why" you are trying to compile gtk
[23:04] <c0ldfyre> I responded to you... twice... scroll back..
[23:04] <jalcine> Is that so, c0ldfyre?
[23:04] <ikonia> you have NOT
[23:04] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: why are you trying to compile gtk #
[23:05] <c0ldfyre> and.. yuo would be incorrect.. if you would like I can C&P my response to you.
[23:05] <c0ldfyre> and...
[23:05]  * jalcine smells smoke.
[23:05] <c0ldfyre> I'm trying to compile a source installer
[23:05]  * jalcine looks to stlsaint for a fire extinguisher.
[23:05] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: "why are you trying to copile gtk"
[23:06] <c0ldfyre> I want to compile a simple program.. I've got errors. I asked for advice on what to do. I'm not really doing anything..
[23:06] <ikonia> you ARE
[23:06] <ikonia> you are trying to compile software, that is what you ARE doing
[23:06]  * jalcine looks at the package's code.
[23:06] <ikonia> I'm asking you "why"
[23:06] <ikonia> what do you want to achieve ?
[23:06] <c0ldfyre> ok.. lets start over
[23:07] <philipballew> How can i unmount a drive when it says its busy? i have no things running
[23:07] <ikonia> philipballew: you probaly do have something using it
[23:07] <ikonia> philipballew: a shell or something will have it open
[23:07] <stlsaint> philipballew: give it a min let whatever process running finish
[23:08] <geirha> He's not compiling gtk
[23:08] <philipballew> probably that
[23:08] <c0ldfyre> I have a src folder.. The src is for a program that auto-compiles as far as I understand. the src is not compiling correctly. so that is where I am and that is what I have DONE
[23:08] <ikonia> geirha that was the question in #ubuntu
[23:08] <c0ldfyre> i have ./configured, but with errors.
[23:08] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: stop
[23:08] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: "what" are you trying to compile
[23:08] <jalcine> philipballew: you could kill the process running on the drive using lsof <drive>
[23:08] <jalcine> geirha: it's just a package compiler, it seems from a quick scan..
[23:09] <c0ldfyre> ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/sourceinstall/sourceinstall-gtk-2.5rc2.tar.gz
[23:09] <philipballew> good point jalcine
[23:09] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: what do you want to actually do ?
[23:09] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: "why" are you trying to compile that
[23:09] <c0ldfyre> auto-compiler
[23:09] <jalcine> ikonia: geriha's right, it's not GTK he's building, but a source compiler.
[23:09] <ikonia> jalcine: in #ubuntu - it was gtk hence why I'm trying to clarify
[23:10] <geirha> Seems to be a sort-of package manager for GNU software
[23:10] <jalcine> ikonia: does it matter?
[23:10] <ikonia> yes
[23:10] <ikonia> as he's had ubuntu 4 hours, he may not actually know what he wants to do the job he wants
[23:10] <jalcine> c0ldfyre: your ./configure gives errors? or the `make` command?
[23:10] <ikonia> compiling a software product with no experience for no reason is not good advice
[23:10] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: "why" do you want this software, - what is your end goal ?
[23:10] <philipballew> mount -rw is mounting for read write right?
[23:11] <geirha> It does indeed not appear useful in an Ubuntu system
[23:11] <stlsaint> philipballew: what you trying to do?
[23:11] <ikonia> hence why I'm asking questions
[23:11] <ikonia> rather than just giving blind info to him
[23:11] <philipballew> stlsaint, mount a flash drive to my server to move keys around
[23:11] <jalcine> Point made, accepted and understood.
[23:11] <stlsaint> have you tried a manual mount?
[23:11] <c0ldfyre> It was suppose to keep me from having to hit terminal everytime I want to compile a src folder.
[23:12] <stlsaint> philipballew: mount /dev/sdc /mnt
[23:12] <stlsaint> ?
[23:12] <jalcine> c0ldfyre: why do you need this built?
[23:12] <c0ldfyre> like i said, it's from what I understand it to be
[23:12] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: there should be no need for you to compile software
[23:12] <ikonia> coalwater: what software do you actually want to build ?
[23:12] <ikonia> oops
[23:12] <philipballew> yeah i ran sudo mount -rw /dev/sdc/ /media
[23:12] <philipballew>  and it mounts (bad front port) but it sayd /media is read only
[23:12] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: what software do you actually want to build ?
[23:12] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: (what software do you want to build that you need/want to use this system for)
[23:12] <philipballew> stlsaint,
[23:13] <c0ldfyre> thanks guys.. but you're stressing me the fuck out.. thanks
[23:13] <c0ldfyre> later..lol
[23:13] <ikonia> c0ldfyre: that language is unacceptable
[23:13] <ikonia> he left #ubuntu as he wouldn't answer questions, there is more going on than he is telling the channel
[23:13] <philipballew> that guy confuses me
[23:14] <jalcine> c0ldfyre, any package or piece of software you'd need would be in Ubuntu's repositories.
[23:14] <geirha> he left
[23:14] <jalcine> There's over 20,000 packages there (last time I checked Muon).
[23:14] <jalcine> mm.
[23:14] <jalcine> philipballew: same here.
[23:15]  * jalcine goes back to hacking Bugzilla.
[23:15] <stlsaint> I would like to remind everyone here that by being in this channel you are offering advice to help new users. Not judge their intentions!
[23:15] <ikonia> no-one was judging him
[23:15] <stlsaint> ikonia: there is no reason for you to tell a user that" there should be no need for you to compile software"
[23:16] <ikonia> stlsaint: so let me get this straight
[23:16] <ikonia> stlsaint: a user who has used linux for 4 hours is trying to compile software for no reason and with no-understanding of what he's doing or why (that he is telling the channel) and you think the best advice is to just blindly give him commands
[23:16] <ikonia> rather than find out what he actually wants to do and advise him properly
[23:17] <stlsaint> ikonia: no, but your method was not one of dealing with a new user. You have to understand...that new user has no idea that software compiling is as advanced as it truly is. To them it might be something simple
[23:17] <ikonia> I know
[23:17] <ikonia> that's why I was ASKING him what he wanted to do
[23:17] <ikonia> what his end goal was
[23:18] <stlsaint> ikonia: again, you stated that there is no reason for them to compile software.
[23:18] <ikonia> that is exactly how to treat new users, ask them what they want to do
[23:18] <ikonia> stlsaint: there isn't
[23:18] <stlsaint> You are wrong
[23:18] <ikonia> stlsaint: until he can explain what he wants to do and show that he "needs" or "genuinly wants" to
[23:18] <stlsaint> now is there a reson for that user to compile gtk? probably not. But to say that there is no reason to compile software is a extremely fasle statement
[23:18] <ikonia> get a grip
[23:19] <ikonia> a 4 hour user of linux - there is NO need to compile software
[23:19] <philipballew> if the user wants to compile sometimes its because they dont know ubuntu has repos
[23:19] <ikonia> if there is he should be in a position to explain why he wants to
[23:19] <stlsaint> So why wont you explain to them what compilation entails instead of telling them they dont need to do it!
[23:19] <ikonia> philipballew: exactly, hence trying to find out what he really wanted to / end result was
[23:19] <ikonia> stlsaint: because he wouldn't tell us what he actually wanted to do
[23:19] <philipballew> if he truly needs to mount, might be an odd situation
[23:19] <philipballew> complie...
[23:19] <ikonia> and he clearly didn't understand what he was doing
[23:20] <philipballew> my mind is on mounting, sorry
[23:20] <stlsaint> ikonia: again this is a new user you are dealing with. If you want to deal with advanced users who think they know everything than feel free to spend your time in #arch channels
[23:20] <ikonia> so in that situation there is no need for a user to compile
[23:20] <ikonia> stlsaint: if you want to miss-guide users spend your time in  another channel
[23:20] <stlsaint> but with a new user our job is to aid, support and educate. Obviously you were not doing that hence they left.
[23:20] <ikonia> stlsaint: clearly not
[23:20] <ikonia> stlsaint: the guy has more info than is letting on
[23:21] <ikonia> that's why he quit #ubuntu channel and came here
[23:21] <ikonia> I put effrot in to try to find out what he actually really wanted to do
[23:21] <ikonia> to try to steer him properly
[23:21] <nlsthzn> assumption
[23:21] <ikonia> that "is" helping a new user properly
[23:21] <philipballew> GUYS!!! MOVE THIS TO #ubuntu-beginners-team
[23:21] <stlsaint> ikonia: im not here to swing swords but ive been in ths channel much longer than you and im telling you....you were wrong in dealing with that user
[23:21] <philipballew> NOW!
[23:21] <philipballew> :)
[23:21] <nlsthzn> lol
[23:22] <philipballew> that is all...
[23:22] <ikonia> philipballew: you can talk normally without the random caplock, people don't need it
[23:22] <philipballew> i know i can.
[23:22] <jalcine> o.o
[23:23] <stlsaint> carry on...
[23:23]  * stlsaint goes to compile some software....just cause.
[23:23] <nlsthzn> ah the fun and games of the internet
[23:24] <jalcine> lol, 'tis the ebb and flow of it, is it not?
[23:32] <stlsaint> LinuxNewb: welcome back
[23:35]  * jalcine should turn on joins/parts.


[02:23] <jeremyA> is anyone still running Lucid?  or has everyone updated to Maverick?
[02:26] <tonyyarusso> Nope, still Lucid on everything here.
[02:27] <jeremyA> I've got a 64-bit install.
[02:27] <jeremyA> AMD Athlon X2 5400+ w/8GB RAM, lots of disk
[02:27] <jeremyA> ran for two years on 8.04.x stably
[02:27] <jeremyA> I upgraded to 10.04 so I could try out KVM
[02:27] <jeremyA> and now the thing is hard hanging a couple of times per day
[02:27] <tonyyarusso> Weird.
[02:27] <jeremyA> I've got it loaded with noacpi as a kernel argument now
[02:28] <jeremyA> but that doesn't seem to help
[02:28] <jeremyA> nothing gets logged in dmesg or /var/log/messages
[02:28] <jeremyA> and there is no apparent slowdown before it halts
[02:28] <tonyyarusso> Try running a command-line-only system for a few hours and see if anything happens.  (To distinguish between a graphics driver problem and something else)
[02:28] <jeremyA> it _is_ command line only
[02:29] <jeremyA> headless setup, usually
[02:29] <tonyyarusso> oh
[02:29] <jeremyA> I've got a cheapo 15" lcd plugged into it now, to read the text consoles.
[02:29] <tonyyarusso> Well now that ain't good.
[02:29] <jeremyA> when it dies, it deactivates the VGA too
[02:29] <jeremyA> and takes my cheapo usb-based KVM switch with it, too
[02:29] <tonyyarusso> Anything in /var/crash/
[02:29] <tonyyarusso> ?
[02:29] <jeremyA> ooh, I'll check
[02:29] <jeremyA> nope, dead empty
[02:29] <tonyyarusso> crud
[02:29] <jeremyA> /var/log/kern* hasn't a thing either
[02:30] <tonyyarusso> /var/log/debug?
[02:30] <tonyyarusso> /var/log/faillog?
[02:31] <jeremyA> debug drops off after xinetd started after the last crash and starts up again with a kernel entry...
[02:31] <jeremyA> Dec  7 16:38:11 localhost xinetd[2567]: removing time
[02:31] <jeremyA> Dec  7 19:48:13 localhost kernel: [    0.000000] e820 update range:<PHONE_NUMBER>000000 -<PHONE_NUMBER>010000 (usable) ==> (reserved)
[02:31] <jeremyA> Dec  7 19:48:13 localhost kernel: [    0.000000] MTRR default type: uncachable
[02:31] <jeremyA> nope, only two failed logins listed in /var/log/faillog -- root on 06/20/10, and me on 06/25/09
[02:32] <jeremyA> this thing is knocking the tar out of me
[02:32] <tonyyarusso> Any chance it's actually a hardware problem that coincidentally is happening after the OS upgrade?
[02:32] <jeremyA> conceivable.
[02:32] <jeremyA> cpuburn didn't turn up any heating problems
[02:32] <jeremyA> dang this is my external gateway.
[02:33] <jeremyA> when I go to bed tonight, I'll bring it down and fire up memtest86+
[02:34] <jeremyA> I'm worried that it could be a SATA controller going, or mobo failing.
[02:34] <jeremyA> after burning 3 days on this, I'm thinking I'm getting to the point where I could throw a new machine at the problem.
[02:35] <tonyyarusso> Does your hard drive support SMART?
[02:35] <jeremyA> yeah, they're all working AOK
[02:35] <jeremyA> though I don't trust SMART too far.
[02:35] <tonyyarusso> 'k
[02:36] <jeremyA> it's kind of dumb when it comes to predicting errors
[02:36] <jeremyA> all six satas say they're aok.
[02:37] <jeremyA> but...it does make me wonder about power...
[02:37] <jeremyA> I wonder if my PS is acting up.
[02:37] <tonyyarusso> You could always read through all of the posts on this thread:  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787
[02:38] <tonyyarusso> ;)
[02:38] <tonyyarusso> (Although waiting for the next LTS might be faster.)
[02:39] <jeremyA> I went through the first 25 pages of that, then skipped ahead to the end
[02:39] <jeremyA> where people say "huh.  no solution found."
[02:39] <jeremyA> mainly because I think there are a lot of different root causes
[02:41] <tonyyarusso> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FaultyHardware might be useful, although it sounds like you already knew these.
[02:44] <jeremyA> 500watt powersupply for six sata drives...I wonder if I'm pushing my luck here
[02:47] <tonyyarusso> Care to list off what else you have in there?  (PCI cards, fans, etc.)
[02:47] <jeremyA> Intel PCI-express NIC
[02:47] <jeremyA> that's it
[02:47] <tonyyarusso> Not a single fan eh?  That could be your problem too :P
[02:47] <jeremyA> a dvd burner that's not even plugged in, because I'm out of sata cables
[02:48] <jeremyA> hahaha
[02:48] <jeremyA> =)
[02:48] <jeremyA> got me.
[02:48] <jeremyA> okay, fan on the back
[02:48] <jeremyA> nice big quiet fan on the CPU
[02:48] <jeremyA> I'd have to look to see if there are others
[02:49] <jeremyA> I'm seeing posts on forums, telling me that other people consider 6 drives on a single 500w P/S to be pushing the envelope
[02:52] <tonyyarusso> jeremyA: what socket is that Athlon?
[02:55] <jeremyA> AM2+ I think
[02:55] <jeremyA> am2
[02:55] <jeremyA> sitting in a biostar a740G M2+ motherboard
[02:55] <jeremyA> with 8gb of ddr2 ram
[02:56] <jeremyA> 65watt Athlon 64X2 5400 brisbane dual-core
[02:57] <tonyyarusso> well this calculator doohickey just recommended 312W, so that doesn't seem bad yet.
[02:57] <jeremyA> wait'll we add in the drives...
[02:57] <tonyyarusso> that's with the drives, assuming 7200rpm
[02:57] <jeremyA> oh, okay.
[02:57] <jeremyA> hrm.
[02:57] <jeremyA> should be fine then
[02:57] <jeremyA> unless the P/S is failing
[02:57] <jeremyA> but it's usually not dying at periods of particularly heavy load
[02:58] <jeremyA> and I'm almost never over 4gb RAM usage
[02:58] <jeremyA> Mem:       8128336    4232644    3895692          0      41628    2135184
[03:00] <jeremyA> two of these drives are ancient 160gb 7200rpm barracudas...but I don't think they'd be taking 100w of power each or anything
[03:01] <jeremyA> where'd you find the calculator, anyway?  :)
[03:02] <tonyyarusso> google "PSU calculator", first result
[03:03] <jeremyA> thx
[03:07] <jeremyA> newegg has one, too:  http://educations.newegg.com/tool/psucalc/index.html
[03:07] <jeremyA> they're suggesting a 408w P/S for me.
[03:22] <jeremyA> tonyyarusso:  are all your machines Intel hardware?
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> jeremyA: Nope.  I'm typing on an AMD Phenom II X4 905e machine currently.
[03:23] <jeremyA> okay, good to know
[03:23] <jeremyA> I've been reading through that thread, and noticed a guy saying "lucid only freezes on my AMD hardware"
[03:23] <tonyyarusso> The rest are, unless you count the ARM gadget.
[03:25] <jeremyA> interestingly, I noted that the BIOS had the ACPI set to to v1.  I set it to v2 when it was down last, and deactivated the onboard sound
[03:27] <tonyyarusso> I have a board here that's on v2 now, but has an option for v3.
[03:27] <jeremyA> yeah, I have to take the gateway down to refsck a disk once my wife is done checking email
[03:27] <jeremyA> but since I'm booted with noacpi, I don't think the acpi version that BIOS is using should matter
[03:28] <jeremyA> bbiab
[03:54] <jeremyA> so...how the heck do I enabled the --mark-- in rsyslog?
[03:55] <jeremyA> I put these lines in /etc/rsyslog.conf
[03:55] <jeremyA> $ModLoad immark  # provides --MARK-- message capability
[03:55] <jeremyA> $MarkMessagePeriod 60
[03:55] <jeremyA> but nowhere in any logfile do I find my MARKs
[03:55] <jeremyA> whoops, my bad
[03:55] <jeremyA> there they are in kern.log
[03:55] <jeremyA> not in messages where I expected them
[03:55]  * jeremyA <-- dummie
[18:57] <jeremyA> hey, tonyyarusso, you around?
[19:18] <tonyyarusso> jeremyA: kinda - at work, but yes.
[19:21] <jeremyA> do any of your amd machines use tsc as a clocksource?
[19:21] <jeremyA> after upgrading to the 2.6.34 kernel, I got a note about my tsc clocksource being unstable.
[19:21] <jeremyA> so I've set it to use clocksource=hpet on the next book
[19:24] <tonyyarusso> um, I have no idea.  I've never touched anything like that.
[19:24]  * tonyyarusso uses default kernels and such