[00:00] <BobJonkman1> #startmeeting Canadian Team IRC meeting in #ubuntu-ca Thursday, 28 November 2013
[00:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Nov 29 00:00:33 2013 UTC.  The chair is BobJonkman1.  Who are you, where are you from, and what exciting things do you do with Ubuntu?
[00:01] <BobJonkman1> #chair dscassel
[00:01] <meetingology> Current chairs: BobJonkman1 dscassel
[00:02] <jose> so, who's going first?
[00:02] <jose> I think BobJonkman1 should :)
[00:02] <BobJonkman1> I'm Bob Jonkman from Elmira, Ontario, Canada (just a snowball's throw north of Waterloo). I'm one of the contacts for Ubuntu Canada
[00:02] <Neo31> Hello everybody
[00:03] <BobJonkman1> Hi dscassel, bregma, aruna, josa, Neo31!
[00:03] <BobJonkman1> s/josa/jose (oops)
[00:03] <jose> :)
[00:04] <jose> I'm José Antonio Rey, just a normal person doing normal things, point of contact at Ubuntu Peru and current member of the LoCo Council
[00:04] <dscassel> I'm Darcy in Waterloo Ontario and I guess I'm still a co-contact, although it's probably getting close to the time where I should step down considerately...
[00:04] <BobJonkman1> Agenda for those following along at home: hawkfromahandsaw
[00:04] <BobJonkman1> Nope.
[00:04] <BobJonkman1> Agenda here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Meetings/2013/2013-11-28
[00:06] <aruna> I'm Aruna from Toronto and I love python and javascript
[00:07] <BobJonkman1> Seems there's a holiday south of our border today, so guest attendance may not be as robust as I had hoped.
[00:09] <Neo31> I am Ahmed Sghaier aka Neo31, Ubuntu-TN (Tunisia) LoCo contact and I do most of the things with Ubuntu, but mostly interested in contributing to Ubuntu and Ubuntu Touch including Translation/Testing/Documentation/Development and promote it Tunisia.
[00:09] <BobJonkman1> Welcome, everybody!
[00:10] <BobJonkman1> I sat in on the LoCo Council meeting last week. The Ohio team leader, skellat, (Stephen Michael Skellat) happened to talk about promoting Ubuntu activities in Ohio, and I asked if the LoCo Council could help us with that too
[00:10] <dscassel> Pesky American Thanksgiving.  At least stuff's on sale.
[00:10] <BobJonkman1> #link Here are the minutes from that LoCo Council meeting: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-11-19-20.07.html
[00:11] <BobJonkman1> The LoCo Council members and LoCo Team leaders across the globe have kindly offered to participate in today's Ubuntu-ca meeting
[00:12] <BobJonkman1> So, Yay Local Community!
[00:12] <BobJonkman1> Let's pop into the first Agenda item, which illustrates my concern
[00:12] <BobJonkman1> #topic Events
[00:13] <BobJonkman1> Saucy Salamander was released in October
[00:13] <BobJonkman1> We had a great Ubuntu Global Jam in Kitchener, but as far as I know only Toronto had an Ubuntu Release party
[00:15] <dscassel> A confluence of events forced me to cancel the Kitchener party (at least my part in it).  Kwartzlab wasn't available any time I was.
[00:15] <dscassel> And even when I was, stuff came up.
[00:15] <dscassel> :/
[00:17] <BobJonkman1> Sadly, it seemed there was no interest to hold one in another venue. Kwartzlab has been great to Ubuntu-ca-kw (thanx, dscassel!) but I had hoped to hold a party even if Kwartzlab wasn't available
[00:17] <dscassel> I hope to make up for it for Trusty, but no guaratees, really.  It's hard for me to plan anything these days.
[00:18] <BobJonkman1> Likewise, we've been getting pretty good turnout for Ubuntu Hours in Kitchener, but there hasn't been much activity for the Waterloo Ubuntu Hour.
[00:19] <BobJonkman1> And even in Kitchener there was no Ubuntu Hour this month...
[00:19] <dscassel> My hope with the Waterloo hour is we could get UW students.  But I never got around to advertising to students.  Now I can't even make it out regularly so... yeah.
[00:19] <dscassel> I'm fine with just having a Kitchener hour.  I enjoy it when I'm able to go. :)
[00:20] <aruna> Why don't we ask Tyler to advocate ? I think he is at UW. I met him at the global jab in kithcner
[00:20] <aruna> typo oops dats global jam
[00:20] <BobJonkman1> I do like the social events. But I think most people consider Ubuntu Hours as technical events, no social events.
[00:21] <aruna> we can always integrate the social aspect say before or after the event ?
[00:22] <BobJonkman1> It was great to see so many people at the Ubuntu Global Jam, but it's a bit much to ask people from Toronto to come to KW for an hour (Toronto is about 130km from Kitchener Waterloo)
[00:22] <dscassel> That is one of the challenges with LoCos in general.  Getting people to socialize around an operating system, in a way that's not just "make my computer work, please."
[00:22] <jose> in my personal opinion, Ubuntu Hours are a mix between both of them, but mostly social - people get together for a drink or a snack
[00:22] <aruna> Hell no I would not have mised that bus ride in a million years I wanted to BE there
[00:23] <BobJonkman1> And there are no Ubuntu Hours in Toronto.  Canada's largest city, and no Ubuntu users?
[00:23] <dscassel> If you have a good core group, it works fine.  Figuring out how to grow it beyond the core or franchise it to other cities where teh core doesn't exist is tricky.
[00:24] <BobJonkman1> In my experience, every computer club meeting I go to (LUG, Cryptoparty &c.) always have a social part.  Either a get-together after the main meeting, or it's held at a social venue like a restaurant or coffeeshop.
[00:24] <BobJonkman1> So why so much trouble attracting people to Ubuntu?
[00:25] <dscassel> KWLUG has the social stuff as a side effect.  The main event is a talk about a Linux thing.
[00:25] <dscassel> People go to that and eventually get sucked into the social part.
[00:25] <aruna> There are users ( I am one ) and I would set up a ubuntu hour but I need support and the hardest thing I have seen getting my friends to convert is they all think ubuntu is for techies. And most feel uncomfortable with the desktop we have in Gnome or Unity and I have tried with limited sucess
[00:26] <BobJonkman1> I've heard two conflicting theories: 1) Ubuntu is too niche, and there aren't enough people interested; 2) Ubuntu is too mainstream, and doesn't need a LUG
[00:26] <jose> so, what do you guys think about starting a virtual ubuntu hour for people in that zone?
[00:26] <jose> maybe a google+ hangout would work, just to have some geeky talk
[00:26] <dscassel> Bob won't like that. :)
[00:27]  * dscassel hinting that Bob is as Google-free as possible, on principle.
[00:27] <aruna> Too niche ? Remeber Dell instaled ubuntu as the OS of choice on the laptop and then I dunno what went wrong
[00:27] <BobJonkman1> jose: Great idea, but I'd like to see it implemented with Free Software, preferable hosted on Ubuntu servers
[00:27] <jose> BobJonkman1: you can use any software you want, you name it
[00:27] <BobJonkman1> But yes, virtual meetings would really help in a place as big as Canada (5 1/2 time zones!)
[00:27] <jose> if you have enough audience then you can move on to have physical ubuntu hours, which would *then* have that level of attendance you wanted
[00:27] <aruna> I think thats a great idea jose
[00:28] <BobJonkman1> We're having a virtual meeting now; but is IRC too geeky/technical/oldfashioned?
[00:28] <FiReSTaRT> BobJonkman1: yep
[00:28] <FiReSTaRT> involves installing a client and no real IM capabilities
[00:29] <FiReSTaRT> if you wanna attract mainstream users to the desktop
[00:29] <FiReSTaRT> the irc is a BAD platform
[00:29] <BobJonkman1> FiReSTaRT: So you want something that works in the browser
[00:29] <Neo31> FiReSTaRT, installing a client is an option
[00:29] <dscassel> IRC has its uses, but building a social community is... well, people do it, but to me it feels unnatural.
[00:29] <jose> I'd say video calls would make the thing more real
[00:29] <Neo31> in a browser : webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#ubuntu-ca
[00:29] <FiReSTaRT> BobJonkman1: java chat that connects to the irc is not a bad option but even then
[00:30] <FiReSTaRT> some people might see it as too technical
[00:30] <jose> hmm, googling 'open source video calls' returned jitsi.org
[00:30] <FiReSTaRT> java *barf*
[00:30] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: And I advertise that URL in the e-mail reminders I send out, and it's on the Ubuntu-ca meetings page. Doesn't seem to draw folks in, though
[00:30] <aruna> i like video calls too but we need to be mindful about bandwidth and network speed as some folks may not have the required bandwidth or speed such as say resource poor settings
[00:31] <BobJonkman1> Most video chats have audio-only fallback, and a text chat window too.
[00:31] <FiReSTaRT> how about a youtube channel?
[00:31] <FiReSTaRT> keep the content very streamlined
[00:31] <Neo31> it's good to use social networks to promote your community to new people!
[00:31] <FiReSTaRT> and you can do youtube broadcasts with live commenting
[00:32] <Neo31> but concerning your event i wanted to know how many people do you want to have!?
[00:32] <BobJonkman1> But I think the text-only participants tend to get ignored when there's video for everyone else.
[00:32] <dscassel> BobJonkman1: What was that thing at FSOSS a couple years ago? Blue something?
[00:32] <KombuchaKip> BobJonkman1 & dscassel: Sorry I'm late. Hey folks, Kip here. Project lead behind Avaneya, a cerebral sci-fi for Ubuntu. www.avaneya.com
[00:32] <Neo31> BBB
[00:32] <BobJonkman1> dscassel: Big BLue Button
[00:32] <Neo31> big blue button ?
[00:33] <jose> bigbluebutton.org
[00:33] <dscassel> Yeah, that.
[00:34] <dscassel> Anyway, tools is probably something we should take offline.  It's easy to get sucked into that sort of discussion.
[00:34] <BobJonkman1> OK, seat-of-the-pants experiment.  I'm running Jitsi now.  Who can contact me with XMPP (Jabber protocol) at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>? We should be able to set up a video link...
[00:35] <jose> I'll do it, let's keep moving with this :)
[00:35]  * FiReSTaRT doesn't own a webcam lol
[00:35] <FiReSTaRT> well i have a laptop with one but my wife is currently using it for when she does some contract work for me
[00:37] <aruna> downloading jitsi as well :-)
[00:37] <BobJonkman1> #action Schedule a video chat for Ubuntu Canada
[00:37] <meetingology> ACTION: Schedule a video chat for Ubuntu Canada
[00:38] <BobJonkman1> OK, that's something we'll give a try.
[00:38] <aruna> Yaaaay... it's official we can see everybodeee now
[00:39] <Neo31> BobJonkman1, I honestly don't think Jitsi is a better solution than Google Hangout or Youtube!
[00:39] <aruna> hangouts is gud
[00:39] <Neo31> if you are trying to reach new people and grow the community
[00:40] <dscassel> Yeah, Bob. :)
[00:40] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: Fair enough. Personally, I'm partial to finding a Free Software solution.
[00:40] <BobJonkman1> But I realize we have to reach out to where the people are
[00:40] <BobJonkman1> And if they're already on Google Hangouts, then that's where we'll find them.
[00:41] <Neo31> hangout provides a Youtube broadcast that will be available for people who misses the event and it is easy for everybody to check
[00:41] <Neo31> that's it BobJonkman1
[00:41] <BobJonkman1> But the same would apply to Facebook; does anyone recommend that?
[00:42] <Neo31> if the information itself is free and doesn't require privacy then Google is fine I think
[00:42] <FiReSTaRT> google? privacy? lol
[00:42] <FiReSTaRT> we have to make some sacrifices though
[00:42] <Neo31> and you should think more with the marketing mind to reach more people
[00:42] <Neo31> what's private about an event promoting Ubuntu?
[00:43] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: It's the requirement to load non-free software to make use of Google Hangouts that's holding me up
[00:43] <Neo31> I think the more people we can reach the better!
[00:44] <Neo31> i see BobJonkman1, convincing! it's a sacrifice
[00:44] <Neo31> i'm not sure if BBB can record a classroom!
[00:44] <aruna> Like bob said if we are to reach more folks we need to access them using what they use ? Over time we can show them what is possible with open source and alternatives  ? what is important is for us to start connecting with others
[00:45] <Neo31> I think that is possible, but it costs money if you can afford it!
[00:46] <aruna> why can't we ask for funding  ? I dunno who though would be intereted in supporting
[00:46] <aruna> am willing to start pasting ubuntu posters all over Toronto
[00:46] <BobJonkman1> Anyway, I'll find a way to make video conferencing  happen for me.
[00:47] <BobJonkman1> Posters would be good
[00:47] <aruna> Yeeeash :-)
[00:48] <aruna> what we lack is advertising and marketing
[00:48] <BobJonkman1> I would say, find a place you like, maybe arrange with the owner/manager for a small group reservation, then put up the posters.
[00:48] <aruna> gud idea and will do
[00:49] <Neo31> the main concern here is how to bring more people to ubuntu-ca right ? and more active and participating people! right ?
[00:49] <BobJonkman1> #action aruna to arrange, advertise and market an Ubuntu Hour Toronto
[00:49] <aruna> why not inside city hall ? Then show them what ubuntu is and can do and ask for support
[00:49] <meetingology> ACTION: aruna to arrange, advertise and market an Ubuntu Hour Toronto
[00:50] <aruna> Heyyy hold on I need support
[00:50] <BobJonkman1> aruna: City Hall would be great! Would you try to book a room there, or just meet in the lobby?
[00:50] <aruna> book a room means lots of red-tape
[00:50] <aruna> lobby IS a public space
[00:50] <aruna> they can't stop me
[00:50] <aruna> :-)
[00:50] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: Yes, trying to bring more people to Ubuntu, but just getting the existing Ubuntu users to come to community events.
[00:51] <BobJonkman1> First, there have to be community events, and Aruna is working on one of those now :)
[00:52] <aruna> We should agree on a standard poster no  ? Or I fly by night  ?
[00:52] <Neo31> right
[00:52] <dscassel> Nah.  Do your own thing.
[00:52] <BobJonkman1> aruna: There are probably some sample posters or other marketing materials on the Ubuntu Wiki.  I'll poke around after the meeting
[00:52] <aruna> Oki darcy will follow my heart :-)
[00:53] <BobJonkman1> But this is a do-ocracy. Anything you *do* is good.
[00:54] <aruna> Jose how have you tried to access people in Peru  ? What sort of posters if any do u guys use  ? How do u reach out ?
[00:54] <jose> aruna: we usually post on Facebook, which has a great audience, and people invite us to physical events
[00:54] <jose> there's where we get most people involved, if any
[00:55] <aruna> I see, well we can easily duplicate that
[00:55] <BobJonkman1> So, should we set up an Ubuntu Canada Facebook page?
[00:55] <aruna> I think we shud
[00:55] <Neo31> don't you have any social network media un ubuntu-ca ?
[00:55] <aruna> ummm.... not right now I don think so
[00:55] <dscassel> http://spreadubuntu.org/ has some, but I never find anything I like very much.
[00:56] <Neo31> I think facebook/twitter/Google+ and any social networking media is very important for marketing your events
[00:56] <dscassel> I have some Ubuntu Canada brand work sitting on my harddrive, but just using Ubuntu stuff is fine.
[00:56] <dscassel> We have a Facebook group, but it's probably best to just let it die.  Facebook groups are useless.
[00:56] <dscassel> A page is okay.
[00:56] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: There's a Twitter account for UbuntuWaterloo, and the !Fediverse has the !Ubuntuca group: http://sn.jonkman.ca/group/ubuntuca
[00:56] <BobJonkman1> Also http://sn.jonkman.ca/group/ubuntu
[00:57] <Neo31> un ubuntu-tn we use the mailing list irc and launchpad only for community members, preparation organisation contact and stuff
[00:57] <Neo31> but for reaching people we have two techniques
[00:57] <dscassel> I've got twitter.com/UbuntuWaterloo.
[00:58] <dscassel> Rather than setting up an UbuntuCanada one, I figure it's better to have them be city-focused.
[00:58] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: I'm not much good at Google/Facebook/Twitter
[00:58] <Neo31> if we are organizing the event and we want to reach as many people as possible we use every bit of social network possible
[00:58] <Neo31> and as many posters as possible
[00:58] <dscassel> I'm not sure what I'd say on @UbuntuCanada, besides retweeting @ubuntu and @jonobacon all the time.
[00:58] <dscassel> And people can just follow them.
[00:58] <Neo31> but generally social networks are viral and are good enough
[00:59] <BobJonkman1> dscassel: Certainly have a focus for each city with active Ubuntu people, but should there also be an umbrella Ubuntu-ca group/page ?
[00:59] <Neo31> our second technique is our university contacts
[00:59] <dscassel> Twitter doesn't have groups/pages in the sense you mean.
[00:59] <Neo31> we can actually step back and let our university club do the invitation/organisation and just provide some help
[01:00] <dscassel> I'm not stopping someone else from doing @UbuntuCanada. I just see it as having... limited usefulness.
[01:00] <Neo31> that is very effective as with time we have built a very good clubs network in the country
[01:00] <BobJonkman1> #action Discuss setting up Google+/Facebook/Twitter accounts for Ubuntu-ca and each City chapter, eg. Ubuntu-ca-kw, Ubuntu-ca-Toronto
[01:00] <meetingology> ACTION: Discuss setting up Google+/Facebook/Twitter accounts for Ubuntu-ca and each City chapter, eg. Ubuntu-ca-kw, Ubuntu-ca-Toronto
[01:01] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: I was just at some Computer Science Club lectures at the University of Toronto. There were maybe 10 people there, mostly Windows and Mac users.
[01:01] <dscassel> UbuntuCanada does have a Google+ page.  I've mostly abandoned it (like the rest of G+), though.  If someone wants to take it over, let me know.
[01:01] <BobJonkman1> I got the impression that University people are too busy to do anything social off-campus
[01:02] <BobJonkman1> And on-campus social events need a sponsor from the University (so it couldn't come from me, for example)
[01:03] <dscassel> Yeah.  Any contacts I have at the UW computer science club have graduated.
[01:03] <dscassel> But on-campus Ubuntu activity pretty much has to come from on-campus.
[01:03] <BobJonkman1> ***I was at University of Waterloo lectures, not Toronto
[01:04] <Neo31> i agree dscassel, but if you have contacts you can push it a little bit
[01:04] <dscassel> University students are really transient.  UW even more so, given their co-op program.
[01:04] <aruna> Ahmed aka neo31 what do you feel ? Any suggestions please ?
[01:04] <dscassel> It's hard to set up anything lasting.
[01:05] <BobJonkman1> I've got some contacts in the UofW CSClub now; I've invited them to our next KWLUG meeting. We can see how that goes as a template for Ubuntu activity
[01:05] <Neo31> I am not so sure of what I would recommend for ubuntu-ca as the country and culture may be a little bit different
[01:06] <dscassel> And we run into the same problem that we have trying to set up in other cities.  Someone might show up and say they're interested, but it's hard to get them to start anything.
[01:06] <dscassel> Or even communicate what a LoCo is and what they can do.
[01:06] <Neo31> but as far as i know based on my experience, afk meetings/activity/events are the best way to build a good community core, then you have to maintain it and extend it
[01:07] <BobJonkman1> #action Invite University Computer Club people to Ubuntu events
[01:07] <meetingology> ACTION: Invite University Computer Club people to Ubuntu events
[01:07] <Neo31> i agree with dscassel
[01:07] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: We've been having the events, but participation is dwindling.
[01:08] <BobJonkman1> And eventually the organizers become discouraged. The last few Ubuntu Hours in Waterloo was just me, and whatever family members I could convince to come.
[01:09] <dscassel> Not even Charles?
[01:09] <CrankyOldBugger> did I miss all the fun?
[01:09] <dscassel> CrankyOldBugger: we're still going. :)
[01:09] <BobJonkman1> Ubuntu Hours in Kitchener have been more successful than Ubuntu Hours in Waterloo.  Don't know why.
[01:09] <CrankyOldBugger> cool.  sorry I'm late
[01:09] <Neo31> how many ubuntu-ca active states do you have ? and what's the average members of every state ?
[01:09] <BobJonkman1> Hi CrankyOldBugger! Glad you could come. I'll post a summary and meeting logs when we're done
[01:10] <dscassel> Kitchener works mostly because it's you and Charles dragging the Computer Recycling and KWLUG people out.
[01:11] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: There's an active group in Kitchener, but even the largest city in Canada, TOronto, hasn't had an active community. We've just seen some participation in Guelph (5 people), about 20 km from Kitchener.
[01:11] <dscassel> Every once in a while Kitchener gets a new person.  I think they're promoted a bit more..
[01:12] <Neo31> so only Kitchener and Waterloo ?
[01:12] <Neo31> and Guelph
[01:12] <BobJonkman1> There's a group of 5-6 that meet in Mississauga. They started out as the Mississauga Ubuntu Meet Up (MUMU), but migrated away from Ubuntu so now they're just the Mississauga Linux User Group (about 60km from Kitchener)
[01:13] <dscassel> Neo31: Ubuntu Canada is mostly Ubuntu Kitchener-waterloo.  We had Ottawa, Toronto and Guelph at various times in the past.  (I think Verdi is still doing Guelph things, but I haven't heard from him in a while).
[01:13] <dscassel> In Canada the country, there's also ubuntu Vancouver and Ubuntu Quebec (mostly Montreal), but tehy're separate organizations.
[01:13] <BobJonkman1> And there's KombuchaKip's group in Vancouver, about 5000km from Kitchener.  We don't hear much about them because their group is closed (on MeetUp)
[01:14] <dscassel> Ubuntu Canada draw people from all over English-speaking Canada to our online resources (mailing list, IRC, etc.) But in person, it's pretty much Kitchener right now.
[01:14] <KombuchaKip> BobJonkman1: Kind of. It's actually open, but we don't like lurkers. We like people to register, come on in, and participate.
[01:14] <BobJonkman1> I think Aruna is about to add Toronto to the list of active cities
[01:15] <dscassel> Hurray!
[01:15] <Neo31> good job aruna
[01:15] <BobJonkman1> Certainly the Ubuntu-ca mailing list is active, with maybe 15 people regularly posting
[01:15] <aruna> I am and will try but wud be nice if someone experienced like Kip is there to support
[01:16] <Neo31> may be you can build cooperation with groups like "Mississauga Linux User Group"
[01:16] <BobJonkman1> aruna: If you build it, I will come. Let me know when and where.
[01:16] <aruna> Thank Bob and everyone else up in Kitchner I would not even be here right now if it wasn't for that eamil bob sent out by 'mistake'
[01:17] <aruna> done-deal !
[01:17] <Neo31> actually if you share the same interest and value or something like that it is a great opportunity to cooperate in events
[01:17] <BobJonkman1> That "mistake" was sending something to the Launchpad membership list. I should have done that for this IRC meeting too.
[01:18] <Neo31> or maybe invite other groups to some of your events
[01:19] <BobJonkman1> I've been to several MUMU/MLUG gatherings. It's just what I expect an Ubuntu Hour to be like. Sadly, they don't want to use the Ubuntu name any more.
[01:19] <BobJonkman1> But Victor, the founder of MUMU came to our Kitchener Ubuntu Hour last month, so there does exist good rapport between the groups
[01:20] <Neo31> the idea is if you use MUMU/MLUG + Ubuntu-CA on their event
[01:20] <Neo31> and the same on your event
[01:21] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: When I send out an e-mail about release parties and global jams I usually include the other LUGs that I'm a member of. But I don't want to look like I'm spamming their lists with Ubuntu propaganda
[01:21] <Neo31> well they will have their name on both events and the same for you
[01:21] <Neo31> then you will have more people to come to both events
[01:22] <Neo31> i am not sure but I guess involving more groups in a single event is good for all parties as long as they share the same values
[01:22] <Neo31> (FOSS)
[01:22] <BobJonkman1> #idea What about holding a cooperative event for all LUGs, like a Linuxfest? Would there be Canonical support for tthat?
[01:23] <dscassel> MLUG had one guy who was very anti-Ubuntu or something.  I don't know if he's still around.
[01:23] <dscassel> But anyway... politics.
[01:23] <aruna> well am anti unity soo... long live gnome classic :)
[01:23] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: We did something  like that for Software Freedom Day. I used the UbuntuCanada LoCo portal to announce the event, it was held at Kwartzlab, the KWLUG people did a lot of work.
[01:24] <BobJonkman1> But it's generally the case that it's the same people in those different groups. So really, the same group.
[01:24] <Neo31> lol aruna I prefere KDE/awesome
[01:25] <azend> dscassel: I'm around but school is trying to sink me :)
[01:25] <BobJonkman1> dscassel: Yes, that one guy is still around (who wanted a corporate focus on Linux software for the MUMU group)
[01:25] <dscassel> azend: Yeah, it does that. :)
[01:25] <BobJonkman1> Hi azend!
[01:26] <azend> Hi BobJonkman1!
[01:26] <BobJonkman1> OK, we've got some solid suggestions and two actual things were going to do.
[01:27] <aruna> Am thinking maybe post stuff in TTC and Subway too ?
[01:27] <BobJonkman1> I think it's been a very productive meeting!
[01:27] <Neo31> if the group leader is anti-ubuntu do not bother much of cooperating with that group as it is clear you do not share the same values, otherwise if he is just a member or that most of the group members this ubuntu shares the same values maybe you can still cooperate with them
[01:27] <BobJonkman1> aruna: Post stuff whereever you have permission to do so. Don't want to have Ubuntu-ca-Toronto fall afoul of local bylaws
[01:28] <azend> I'm a co-chair of the IEEE student branch at Conestoga College
[01:28] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: It wasn't the group leader, but still...
[01:28] <aruna> hmmm..... so I get to put up posters inside don jail as well then bud :-0
[01:28] <azend> I can put up some posters or something here too
[01:28] <BobJonkman1> aruna: LOL
[01:28] <aruna> will be careful bob, understand your concerns well
[01:29] <Neo31> azend, do you think your IEEE student branch might be interested with FOSS or Ubuntu ?
[01:29] <azend> Yes but our school is a microsoft shop to its core
[01:30] <Neo31> ouch!
[01:30] <azend> I think the students here though may be a bit more open minded
[01:30] <BobJonkman1> azend: Microsoft sponsorship for the labs and such?
[01:30] <azend> Some of them I think yeah
[01:31] <BobJonkman1> Funny, at the UofW disk encryption lecture this week, Microsoft file systems were mentioned only as an afterthought. The focus was all ext and LUKS and such
[01:31] <azend> Pretty much every tool I am forced to use is a microsoft exclusive tool which requires windows to run
[01:31] <Neo31> so that makes it impossible for the IEEE student branch to host any ubuntu/foss related events ?
[01:31] <aruna> Set up ONE desktop and teach the IEEE student branch
[01:32] <aruna> they fall in love like I did and then word spreads
[01:32] <Neo31> that's the idea aruna
[01:32] <aruna> doable ?
[01:33] <Neo31> you can also have an install party during the event where students gets assistance and support for installing Ubuntu in Dual Boot
[01:34] <aruna> nice idea
[01:34] <aruna> divide dat partitoion and rule
[01:34] <aruna> :-)
[01:34] <Neo31> hhh
[01:35] <Neo31> last year we had only a Linux leader with two other students at a university, we gave him support and this year he runs a club with more than 10 active members
[01:35] <BobJonkman1> azend: Could you set up an event at the college? Perhaps with the venue sponsored by the IEEE Student Branch. I'll ask txwikinger for the Ubuntu banner, or maybe you could supply another cool poster
[01:35] <aruna> wow that's progress
[01:36] <Neo31> another club started last year with 4 active members to attract more members, and they did impressive events organization
[01:36] <Neo31> this year they are the leader FOSS club in their city
[01:36] <azend> We're sort of wrapping up for the semester but I can totally do something like this at the start of next semeser
[01:36] <azend> semester
[01:36] <BobJonkman1> Having Ubuntu branded tchotkes (small giveaway items like buttons, keyrings, stickers) really helps attract attention.
[01:37] <Neo31> so maybe if you can get a good core group of 3 to 5 students in that university and you provide good support you'll have more supporters in a year
[01:37] <dscassel> UW depends on the faculty.  Math/CS is very Unix/Linux-focused (the main undergrad network is all Ubuntu) while Engineering, Arts, etc is all Windows.
[01:37] <BobJonkman1> Can Canonical provide those items to encourage newcomers?
[01:37] <dscassel> Although Engineering does have access to some Linux servers.
[01:38] <BobJonkman1> I really miss the disks, which I handed out at many different places (NaNoWriMo write-ins, Web Developer user groups, &c.
[01:38] <azend> My friend and I are setting up a small server closet for the IEEE
[01:38] <Neo31> system76 provides stickers
[01:38] <azend> Hosting some Ubuntu VMs shouldn't be a problem
[01:38] <Neo31> ubuntu provides loco packs for approved loco teams
[01:38] <azend> We just need to make sure they get access to teh outside world
[01:38] <Neo31> 250 dvds i guess
[01:38] <Neo31> and events packs
[01:39] <Neo31> with lanyards stickers
[01:39] <Neo31> two t-shirts and two caps
[01:39] <dscassel> Yeah, we got one for Ontario Linux Fest a few years ago.
[01:40] <dscassel> (sadly defunct)
[01:40] <Neo31> you can get those resources at least once every release
[01:40] <jose> afaik, it's 150 Desktop DVDs, 25 Server CDs
[01:41] <dscassel> Waterloo Mini Maker Faire is coming back in June.  Probably a good opportunity to set up a table and get a conference pack.
[01:41] <BobJonkman1> Neo31: We've got     hakimsheriff distributing System76 stickers on request...
[01:41] <BobJonkman1> #action Get an Ubuntu Conference Pack for the Waterloo Mini Maker Faire
[01:41] <meetingology> ACTION: Get an Ubuntu Conference Pack for the Waterloo Mini Maker Faire
[01:42] <Neo31> it was great to join you meeting, nice to meet you ubuntu-ca members
[01:42] <BobJonkman1> dscassel: If we can get enough interest between KW, Toronto, Guelph and Mississauga, perhaps we can resurrect the Ontario GNU/Linuxfes
[01:42] <BobJonkman1> t
[01:42] <Neo31> I wish you luck improving your community
[01:42]  * Neo31 has to leave, it's 2:40 am in Tunisia
[01:42] <BobJonkman1> Thank you for all your great advice, Neo31!
[01:43] <BobJonkman1> !tzaf  - Time Zone Appropriate Farewell!
[01:43] <dscassel> txwikinger was talking about that at one point.  Man, though, it's a lot of work.
[01:43] <aruna> gud god its 2:40am in tunisisa
[01:43] <BobJonkman1> dscassel: And expensive if attendance isn't there.
[01:44] <BobJonkman1> OK, let's finish off.
[01:44] <BobJonkman1> #Other Topics
[01:44] <BobJonkman1> #topic Other Topics
[01:44] <Neo31> please carry on BobJonkman1 just excuse me for leaving before it is done
[01:44] <BobJonkman1> np Neo31. Thanx for being here!
[01:45] <aruna> thank u for participating Neo31 and thank u for all the great advice
[01:45] <BobJonkman1> So, anything else?
[01:46] <BobJonkman1> How's Saucy Salamander working out for everyone?
[01:46] <aruna> yet to upgrade
[01:46] <stephenw_> some of us have already moved on to Trusty :)
[01:47] <BobJonkman1> I've got Xubuntu 13.10 installed in a new partition, but right now I'm still running from 12.04
[01:47] <BobJonkman1> stephenw_ Brave man!
[01:48] <BobJonkman1> #subtopic Next meeting
[01:49] <BobJonkman1> I think we should skip an IRC meeting on the fourth Thursday in December. Too much partying going on at that time.
[01:49] <BobJonkman1> So, when shall we three (or more) meet again?
[01:50] <BobJonkman1> How about early January, and try to make it a Video Conference?
[01:50] <aruna> sounds good to me
[01:51] <BobJonkman1> We could hold it at the same time as local Ubuntu Hours, so we can conference with each other between cities
[01:51] <BobJonkman1> But that might be difficult -- I always have trouble coordinating myself at Ubuntu Hours when there's also an IRC meeting happening
[01:51] <BobJonkman1> and Video might make that worse.
[01:52] <aruna> actually no, u can leave the video streaming and attend to buisness ?
[01:52] <aruna> unless there is a question ?
[01:53] <BobJonkman1> aruna: That would be OK, unless there are participants who can't manage the video. Don't want to make text-only participants second-class citizens
[01:53] <aruna> that was my original concern :-(
[01:53] <aruna> especially folks not in north america
[01:54] <BobJonkman1> When jose and I tried a video link a few minutes ago, we couldn't get the sound to work. Too busy with the meeting. And you know about 32- and 64-bit compatibility issues :)
[01:54] <aruna> yes I do :-)
[01:55] <BobJonkman1> So, how about a video meeting on Thursday, 23 January 2014 ?
[01:55] <aruna> so instead of doing off the pants maybe we shud have a system set up ready to go  ?
[01:56] <dscassel> I can make no promises, but tentatively, sure, I have no current conflicts.
[01:56] <BobJonkman1> We can discuss in the mailing list what software to use, and have a couple of Ubuntu Hours or installfests before so anyone who wants to participate can get it installed and working before the meeting
[01:56] <aruna> works fo rme
[01:57] <BobJonkman1> #action next meeting: Video Conference on Thursday, 23 January 2014
[01:57] <meetingology> ACTION: next meeting: Video Conference on Thursday, 23 January 2014
[01:58] <BobJonkman1> So that's done.
[01:58] <BobJonkman1> #subtopics Final comments
[01:59] <BobJonkman1> My clock just cuckoo'd nine times, so we've been at this for two hours.
[01:59] <BobJonkman1> It was a wonderful, productive meeting!
[01:59] <aruna> very happy here
[02:00] <BobJonkman1> Thanx ever so much to all our guests and regular Ubuntu-ca members!
[02:01] <BobJonkman1> So, good night, everyone!
[02:01] <BobJonkman1> #endmeeting
[02:01] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Nov 29 02:02:11 2013 UTC.
[02:01] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-ca/2013/ubuntu-ca.2013-11-29-00.00.moin.txt
[02:01] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-ca/2013/ubuntu-ca.2013-11-29-00.00.html
[02:05] <BobJonkman1> I'm going to have some dinner, so if anyone wants to pop the minutes into the agenda page, feel free!
[02:10] <dscassel> Thanks, BobJonkman1  :)
[15:47] <genii> Apologies for not being able to make the meeting last night, I got an emergency call from work and had to rush in, didn't get out until almost midnight
[15:50] <genii> ( one of the steam radiators in a unit snapped a pipe off of it and the whole floor was full of steam like a sauna and water everywhere which had to get cleaned up and emergency boiler service people called in for repairs )


[00:14] <minimal> blackboxsw: files cloudinit/apport.py, cc_snap.py also affected
[00:20] <Rick41> thanks!
[02:18] <blackboxsw> thx miminal, added to the bug
[16:52] <blackboxsw> holmanb: falcojr or aciba, minor PR up to ensure Oracle testing on Jammy can succeed https://github.com/canonical/pycloudlib/pull/200
[16:53] <blackboxsw> with this in place I can now run aciba's integration test on Oracle w/ VM shape VM.GPU2.1. will test VM.GPU2.3
[16:53] <blackboxsw> with this in place I can now run aciba's integration test on Oracle w/ VM shape VM.GPU2.1. will test VM.GPU3.2
[16:57] <holmanb> blackboxsw: +1
[20:44] <blackboxsw> ok sorted my oracle test setup woes. 2nd pycloudlib fix to handle configuring instances on the right subnet for oracle based on availability_domain https://github.com/canonical/pycloudlib/pull/201
[21:02] <ryland> hey guys, i am trying to deploy a RHEL 8 VM to VMware vSphere 7.0. I think I have the right metadata and userdata. cloud-init 22.1-1 says that everything is valid and creates a correct network configuration. But the interface is not brought up. If i go in and do "ifup" the interface comes up. I got a python traceback, I have added the info here,
[21:02] <ryland> together with the userdata and metadata. Any comments or ideas would be very appreciated. thanks in advance! https://gist.github.com/jbfriedrich/348e988ba26a5a8631d7b33395a0ca90
[21:32] <blackboxsw> ryland: thanks for the ping looking "grep render /var/log/cloud-init" tell you?
[21:33] <blackboxsw> ryland: thanks for the ping looking "grep render /var/log/cloud-init.log" tell you?
[21:34] <ryland> blackboxsw: "Selected renderer 'sysconfig' from priority list: None"
[21:35] <ryland> blackboxsw: i think this might be related: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1894837. i am not using the RHEL provided version as I need the VMware datasource that is not included in the old RHEL provided cloud-init version. so "NM_CONTROLLED=no" is in there
[21:36] <blackboxsw> ryland: another question is what cloud-init "saw" from network config too "grep Applying network configuration /var/log/cloud-init.log"
[21:38] <ryland> blackboxsw: it has the right network config, but it says "bringup=False"
[21:39] <ryland> blackboxsw: I have added the screenshot to the gist
[21:40] <ryland> I have not seen any configuration that would allow me to chose if i want to bring up the interface or not. maybe i am missing something
[21:47] <blackboxsw> bringup=False generally means network confg files are being detected during cloud-init's init-local boot stage before the system networking in officially brought up. So, cloud-init will rely on systemd-networkd or NetworkManager etc to bring up the written network config once cloud-init finished the init-local datasource and network-config writing operation https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/boot.html#local.
[21:49] <ryland> blackboxsw: thanks for the clarification! that would make sense then and bring me back to the patch that I need to apply, as NM is ignoring the device
[21:54] <blackboxsw> ryland: I'm rereading the bug you referenced and I think that is the patch you want https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1894837/comments/8
[21:55] <blackboxsw> yes,  and I see that that patch still hasn't upstreamed to main for cloud-init. I know we recently landed a patch from rhel and centos folks that upstreamed some of RedHat's downstream patches, but this didn't get promoted to tip of main
[22:09] <ryland> Blackboxsw: thank you! I will apply that patch tomorrow and rebuild the template and then try again. Thats a relief that I now know what to look for. Thanks again!


[16:05] <DJones> jpds: Are you around for a bot query?
[16:06] <jpds> Yes.
[16:08] <DJones> Just a quick one, I've noticed that the clone I've got running & the cron job to update the database doesn't seem to be updating to the latest and wondered if the location of the ubuntu.db had changed? The cron job seems to be running fine & updates hourly, but the latest amendments don't appear if I ask my clone a factoid
[16:10] <DJones> I also tried downloading the ubuntu.db from http://www.ubottu.com/ubuntu.db and manually updating and that did the same thing
[16:13] <Pici> DJones: Looks like something weird happened with the migration of ubottu to the new host.
[16:13] <Pici> Let me bug someone about it
[16:13] <DJones> Pici: Ok, i guess that means its not just me thats affected then
[16:14] <jpds> DJones: Yes; it broke with the new host.
[16:16] <DJones> jpds: ok, thanks for letting me know, I'll leave the settings as they are for now
[16:17] <jussi> DJones: just in future, it would be best to ask that kind of stuff in #ubuntu-bots-team ;)
[16:18] <DJones> jussi: I didn't even think about that channel, is there any no idling policy in that channel, or is it just ok to join
[16:18] <jussi> DJones: you are more than welcome to idle there
[16:18] <DJones> Thanks


 @fredldotme [It's something we've talked about in our porting podcast (or "portcast") and sti …], You have a porting podcast? Where can we find it?
 soundcloud was the last time i saw a porting podcast
[03:59] <ubptgbot> Louisejq was added by: Louisejq
[04:08] <ubptgbot> @UNKNOWN was added by: @UNKNOWN
 Does ubtouch collect any data
 No it does not, I put several hours of research into it too. I can confirm, that UBTouch does NOT collect data, thats more than even Ubuntu itself can do tbh
 In Ubuntu 16.04 it has been shipped with Amazon based trackers and app,
 @KaiLoveLinux [No it does not, I put several hours of research into it too. I can confirm, that …], On what basis are you telling this
 @bhuvaneshduvvuri [In Ubuntu 16.04 it has been shipped with Amazon based trackers and app,], No
 @bhuvaneshduvvuri [On what basis are you telling this], Network tracking from both a pinephone leant by a friend and a VM
 @dohbee [No], There is an Amazon web application on 16.04 LTS
 (Photo, 1080x2340) https://irc.ubports.com/qx7WnXKB.png
 My phone ignored the fact that Ive been charging it for last 10 hours
 Baterry icon was green
 network-manager-openvpn-gnome isn't provided by default on any Ubuntu flavour, right?
 @mrcyjanek [<reply to media>], Thats nothing, you should see battery graphs from some years ago. It can also do the time warp ;)
 @Flohack [Thats nothing, you should see battery graphs from some years ago. It can also do …], It didnt
 Its actually 11% now
 Twrp confirmed
 Okay then its a hardware issue. Did you drop your phone recently?
 I didnt
 Because I had the case where a cable got loose after a drop. Reconnecting it fixed charging again
 I mean look at the chart, thr line is straight, when it would be disconnected it should go down about 10% over night
 It means that it have received the power from cable
 (and baterry ison was green)
 If it does not charge in twrp this bad news. Because twrp uses vanilla Android charging, it has nothing to do with Ubuntu Touch
 @Flohack [If it does not charge in twrp this bad news. Because twrp uses vanilla Android c …], It charge now
 After a reboot and reconnevtion of cable it started charging
 But at night it didnt charge a single %
 Ok but still, Ubuntu Touch does nothing with charging, this is just a kernel driver. Which device is it
 Oneplus 6t github.com/ubports-oneplus6
 @mrcyjanek [Oneplus 6t github.com/ubports-oneplus6], Cant say much about it, since still work in progress. You can expect such issues in this state
 Yeah, but I daily drive it since about a month and I didnt had issue like that.. I've just wanted to say that it happened
 @Flohack [Ok but still, Ubuntu Touch does nothing with charging, this is just a kernel dri …], Repowerd can't “deny” the charging?
 @mrcyjanek [Yeah, but I daily drive it since about a month and I didnt had issue like that.. …], You need to tell the porter. Also, try to capture dmesg log next time, as it might show relevant infos
 @mrcyjanek [Repowerd can't “deny” the charging?], No.
 Its just reacting on events
 @Flohack [You need to tell the porter. Also, try to capture dmesg log next time, as it mig …], Sadly I'm the porter :(
 Ah lol
 Dmesg is your friend :)
 Also, please move this discussion to porting group, its OT here
 Oh, okay.
 @TartanSpartan [network-manager-openvpn-gnome isn't provided by default on any Ubuntu flavour, r …], Btw, yes this question does have UT-specific bearing.
 @mrcyjanek [Repowerd can't “deny” the charging?], https://github.com/UbPorts-sagit/android_kernel_xiaomi_msm8998/commit/9c77e07472add345717fdaf2d828c36cff5d5799
 Fix charging halium9.0
 <3 thanks, I'll check it now
[08:52] <ubptgbot> Amitkranand was added by: Amitkranand
 @hacker1024 [You have a porting podcast? Where can we find it?], On the UBports Soundcloud, the last episode is quite some months old now, maybe we should do another one.
 @fredldotme [On the UBports Soundcloud, the last episode is quite some months old now, maybe …], Uh yeah lets do it
 Finally I got sound Clo
 @fredldotme [On the UBports Soundcloud, the last episode is quite some months old now, maybe …], Found it, thanks
 @Flohack [Uh yeah lets do it], I'd love to hear about Halium-9 and 64 bit rootfs progress
 It's a shame that it's so hard to port to newer devices
[09:51] <ubptgbot> <ma ma> hey there, if i close teleports by swiping it up, how is it running in the backround, cause it gives me notifications about new messages? or more general: is there a differenc in swiping an app up and really quitting it?
 @hacker1024 [I'd love to hear about Halium-9 and 64 bit rootfs progress], what is your issue that is solved by 64-bit rootfs?
 Volla Phone is Halium 9/arm64 rootfs though
 @NotKit [what is your issue that is solved by 64-bit rootfs?], I don't have an issue, it would just be better
 aarch64 has more registers available for userspace programs
 I meant that aarch64 rootfs is available, but it is more a topic for Porting group
 @NotKit [I meant that aarch64 rootfs is available, but it is more a topic for Porting gro …], Available where though? I couldn't find one. Also, I was replying to a message about a porting podcast
 @ma ma [hey there, if i close teleports by swiping it up, how is it running in the backr …], bump, I didn't found anything about daemons in api-docs.
 @ma ma [hey there, if i close teleports by swiping it up, how is it running in the backr …], Its a push service, the app is closed, but the push client receives messagea from the server. Its a system function, generic
 @mrcyjanek [bump, I didn't found anything about daemons in api-docs.], The daemon is in ubuntu-push repo in case anyone is interested
 @Flohack [The daemon is in ubuntu-push repo in case anyone is interested], I'll take look at it
 An App just registers for push on startup
 So the push client gives a token and this we send to telegram.
 So they send notifications with the token and then our push server can map it to the device
[10:27] <ubptgbot> Viraj175 was added by: Viraj175
[10:28] <ubptgbot> Pepper_Hug was added by: Pepper_Hug
[10:30] <ubptgbot> <ma ma> @Flohack [An App just registers for push on startup], ok i think i get it. i guess all installed apps do it on startup of the system (not on startup of the app). thanks!
 @ma ma [ok i think i get it. i guess all installed apps do it on startup of the system ( …], Actually only on startup, but servers usually remember the token for some time. So even if the app is off for some time you will still get push msgs
 Wait
 @Flohack [So they send notifications with the token and then our push server can map it to …], Push server have access to my telegram messages?
 @mrcyjanek [Push server have access to my telegram messages?], Yes
 Oh
 You can turn it off but thats currently how it works
 hm ok
[11:58] <ubptgbot> KIEK13 was added by: KIEK13
 Same for tg push notification on Android served by google
 Small little postcards
 Anyone know if Sturm reader has book marks or some way of restarting at the last page you read?
 ^ It has the latter, yes.
 How do you turn it on then?
 It just restarts there as soon as you reopen the file for the book.
 @bhuvaneshduvvuri [There is an Amazon web application on 16.04 LTS], There are no amazon trackers. And Ubuntu Touch does not use unity7 or its scopes
 Have an Pixel XL One. It is not in the supported list, but will it work with UT? A Nexus 5 will arrive next days but maybe I can use the Pixel?
 @Ben [Have an Pixel XL One. It is not in the supported list, but will it work with UT? …], @fredldotme
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/nSntzEO6.png 😍😍
 @Flohack [@fredldotme], THX, just wrote him
 @Ben [THX, just wrote him], I'm working on the Pixel 3a. I remember someone working on a port for the original Pixel in the @Halium group. Maybe you should ask there.
[16:07] <ubptgbot> OleOnit was added by: OleOnit
 Does Nextcloud integration work?
 @anibyl [Does Nextcloud integration work?], Works for calendar. Although only manual sync. There are some apps in OpenStore to sync files and notes. Contacts does only work via a script that you would need to configure manually.
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/Bv7jM1oY.png
 this is the problem ^
 @TartanSpartan [It just restarts there as soon as you reopen the file for the book.], Hmm wonder if there's a problem with it on the BQ tablet then because it seems a bit hit and miss on mine.
 I mean, it can lose it's place like if you "abuse" it by spamming forward or backwards really fast (say to skim read or find a page you were looking for in that fashion), or if there's a memory leak with too many other apps open it'll also lose it's place by a few pages that way.
 Have you been doing either of those things? If not, yeah then it might be a bug I'm unaware of (my M10 is still on Vivid).
 Hello everyone, I found a bug, When you start music or video in the browser, the phone starts beeping until you lock the screen
[17:17] <ubptgbot> Justus was added by: Justus
[17:34] <ubptgbot> wrobell was added by: wrobell
[18:35] <ubptgbot> RodrigoErazoHermosilla was added by: RodrigoErazoHermosilla
 @TartanSpartan [I mean, it can lose it's place like if you "abuse" it by spamming forward or bac …], OK Thanks, I'll give it another try
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/f69m54Kt.webp