[06:05] <toyowheelin> how much ram do you have riley
[06:05] <pyramid> mosty, well many people have sent me papers that they wanted signed and faxed back..so i can only tell you from my own experience.
[06:06] <riley> toyowheelin, that's pretty good figuring in the $300 processor.  i haven't found out my exact cost, but it was between $1100 and $1200
[06:06] <riley> toyowheelin, 1GB
[06:06] <riley> i got 2 512KB at $75 a piece
[06:06] <toyowheelin> yeah I got 1GB of DDR 3200 corseir
[06:06] <riley> i got corseir 4000
[06:07] <riley> wait i was thinking of something else 3200
[06:07] <pyramid> mosty, one time i was going to buy a house and they had to have a faxed signature on the contract.
[06:07] <toyowheelin> 400mhz ram is the max my board supports
[06:07] <toyowheelin> 3200=400mhz
[06:07] <riley> i'm just wondering, can multiple linux distros use the same swap partition
[06:08] <mosty> yes
[06:08] <toyowheelin> I dont know
[06:08] <riley> yeah that's what i was thinking, 400 mhz
[06:08] <pyramid> mosty, and it is sickening that Brother and HP are MS bitches and make sure their stuff works on MS but not on Linux.
[06:08] <mosty> if 99.9% of their customers use windows, it's not sickening
[06:09] <toyowheelin> riley, sounds like our pcs are almost identicle
[06:09] <rev_trance> riley: i've had up to 5 distros on my machine, sharing the same swap
[06:09] <riley> toyowheelin, yeah lol it's just my crappy mobo
[06:09] <toyowheelin> :)
[06:09] <pyramid> mosty, but don't you see...if they all support MS like NERO,Norton,etc...then it is a vicious circle because everyone will want MS so they will have to support it again and again.
[06:10] <toyowheelin> riley, what mobo was it again?
[06:10] <riley> rev_trance, cool, i was wondering because i'm going to partition my old pc so that i can install 8 distros at the same time lol
[06:10] <mosty> you're confusing me now, nero and norton are software...
[06:10] <pyramid> mosty, everyone wants MS because everyone supports MS...until this stops nothing will change.
[06:10] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: a lot of the problem is at the school level
[06:10] <LeeColleton> riley: only if they aren't using the swap concurrently
[06:10] <riley> toyowheelin, SOYO SY-K8USA DRAGON, http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-139-136&depa=0
[06:10] <HrdwrBoB> MS provide windows cheap/free to schools
[06:10] <pyramid> mosty, MS has many bitches...software and hardware wise.
[06:10] <HrdwrBoB> students use it
[06:11] <HrdwrBoB> so people know it
[06:11] <HrdwrBoB> etcetc
[06:11] <riley> LeeColleton, they won't be, is it even possible for two distros on the same os to be running at the same time?
[06:11] <toyowheelin> riley, you have an atx board
[06:11] <mosty> pyramid, X uses Y, therefore X is Y's bitch?
[06:11] <toyowheelin> mine is mini atx
[06:11] <riley> toyowheelin, atx only matters for cases right?
[06:11] <pyramid> mosty, i don't even think Solomon the wise had as many bitches as MS has.
[06:11] <toyowheelin> yea
[06:12] <riley> toyowheelin, bear with me, this is the first pc i ever built lol
[06:12] <toyowheelin> and you have more pci and memory slots than I do
[06:12] <pyramid> mosty, no X writes software or builds hardware for Y therefore X is Y's bitch.
[06:12] <riley> yeah well that doesn't really matter if it won't run lol
[06:13] <mosty> pyramid, by that reasoning, every hardware and software manufacturer is somebodies bitch
[06:13] <pyramid> mosty, well hey...if they choose to be an MS bitch what difference does it make to me?
[06:13] <LeeColleton> riley: swap is essentially like RAM, but slower.  Assuming the drive is only accessible by one computer system, you won't have a problem.  If it was a remote volume then you might have a problem, but that only matters for dickless workstations
[06:14] <pyramid> mosty, but i am saying that until people stop being MS bitches nothing will change.
[06:14] <toyowheelin> riley, http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-128-203&DEPA=1 thats my mobo
[06:15] <rev_trance> I don't know what i'd do with out MS, i like running an OS thats better than theirs.
[06:17] <LeeColleton> From the linuxprinting.org docs it seems that hpoj-0.91-3 should support scanning with sane, yet when I run sane it says no devices can be detected.  What gives?
[06:18] <HrdwrBoB> LeeColleton: what sort of a retard runs remote swap?
[06:18] <toyowheelin> HrdwrBoB, wtf you talking about
[06:18] <LeeColleton> HrdwrBoB: retards with linux installed on their airport WAP
[06:18] <riley> toyowheelin, cool
[06:19] <HrdwrBoB> what a terrible solution  to a silly problem
[06:19] <t35t0r> what retards with linux on their wap?
[06:19] <t35t0r> linksys wrt54g ?
[06:19] <HrdwrBoB> wrt54gs
[06:20] <HrdwrBoB> more ram
[06:20] <HrdwrBoB> more storage
[06:20] <t35t0r> how much more
[06:20] <t35t0r> interesting
[06:20] <HrdwrBoB> twice as much
[06:20] <t35t0r> i wonder if you can inject it with VPN
[06:20] <t35t0r> support
[06:20] <t35t0r> that would be "badass"
[06:20] <toyowheelin> ssh tunnel
[06:20] <toyowheelin> lol
[06:21] <riley> toyowheelin, so would you recommend Gigabyte mobos?
[06:21] <t35t0r> gigabyte is good if you've got the money
[06:21] <t35t0r> they make solid server mobos
[06:21] <toyowheelin> I havent found anything thats bad about it
[06:21] <t35t0r> if you want desktop go msi or asus
[06:22] <LeeColleton> HrdwrBoB: I didn't say it was a good idea to run remote swap, I'm just pointing out that it's the only way to have a conflict in sharing swap partitions between multiple operating systems
[06:22] <t35t0r> simply because so many people have them you'll get good support if something goes wrong
[06:22] <toyowheelin> so yeah I would...but than again I have had it for a lil over a month
[06:22] <pyramid> does anybody know what the problem is with www.shiite.com/caver....i am very worried about this.
[06:23] <HrdwrBoB> LeeColleton: yes, but until you mentioned it, no-one even considered doing that for a second, because it should never be done
[06:23] <mosty> leecollecton: what's wrong with local swap files?
[06:23] <HrdwrBoB> if you have to have a PC on for remote swap for the airport
[06:23] <HrdwrBoB> ... couldn't you just do that stuff on the PC
[06:23] <pyramid> how many people are keeping up with www.shiite.com/caver?
[06:23] <t35t0r> what is that?
[06:23] <LeeColleton> pyramid: sponsored links for ISLAM?
[06:24] <t35t0r> ahh shiite
[06:24] <pyramid> it is very worrisome....no it is not about ISLAM...read it
[06:24] <toyowheelin> lol
[06:24] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: go to the url
[06:24] <t35t0r> is there a web.archive.org link for it?
[06:24] <pyramid> i told you www.shiite.com/caver
[06:24] <t35t0r> or maybe a nyud.net coral cache
[06:24] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[06:24] <HrdwrBoB> go there
[06:24] <t35t0r> i went there its not there
[06:24] <t35t0r> what used to be there
[06:24] <t35t0r> the document you requested is tno there
[06:25] <toyowheelin> riley, I think linux just dont like your chipset
[06:25] <pyramid> ok sorry it is www.holyshiite.com/caver
[06:25] <LeeColleton> caver?  is that like http://www.infiltration.org/
[06:25] <pyramid> no read it ...it is very troublesome. and very important.
[06:25] <toyowheelin> my mobo has a via chipset, not the best but its got support
[06:26] <pyramid> it seems to be contact with the supernatural.
[06:26] <pyramid> but something has happened and it has not been updated for quite some time.
[06:26] <topgun601> ok i formated, reinstalled, followled the help at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto
[06:27] <riley> toyowheelin, yeah a few other people have said that
[06:27] <toyowheelin> oh you got one of them fancy memory card readers cool
[06:27] <LeeColleton> miners suck
[06:27] <pyramid> you have not been reading www.holyshiite.com/caver
[06:27] <topgun601> and it still hangs on my 9800 pro any sugestions ?
[06:28] <riley> yeah but i don't know if it's going to work with linux or not
[06:28] <pyramid> i fear something terrible has happened.
[06:28] <t35t0r> whip's dog loks like mine
[06:28] <toyowheelin> riley, I must admit you got a lot more stuff with your mobo
[06:29] <t35t0r> being very very clausterophobic i would not enter a cave
[06:29] <t35t0r> especially one so "tight"
[06:30] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:30] <LeeColleton> This fellow appears to be an idiot: http://www.edaddyo.com/images/caver/squeeze.jpg
[06:30] <pyramid> t35t0r, i bet you would not enter that cave....after you read what we have on the subject...but something has happened in the middle of it.
[06:30] <riley> toyowheelin, it came in a discount bundle off of newegg
[06:30] <toyowheelin> 9:29pm fabbione
[06:30] <toyowheelin> lol
[06:30] <t35t0r> i'm just looking at pictures
[06:30] <t35t0r> spelunking would not be by preferred profesison
[06:30] <toyowheelin> how much did you end up paying for it riley
[06:31] <pyramid> t35t0r, well it is only 10 pages or so to read and gather as many facts as you can.
[06:32] <fabbione> toyowheelin: ain't my fault if you live in the wrong side of the world ;)
[06:32] <pyramid> t35t0r, the author writes a bit too much detail for me...but sift through it to get the important stuff.
[06:32] <toyowheelin> lol fabbione
[06:32] <riley> toyowheelin: $300 for mobo and processor
[06:32] <toyowheelin> not bad
[06:32] <riley> yeah but now i
[06:33] <riley> but now i'll prbly end up giving the mobo to my dad since he can put it to use with windoze
[06:33] <toyowheelin> yeah
[06:33] <toyowheelin> you gonna buy a differnt mobo
[06:33] <t35t0r> pyramid, so what is that round rock? looks like they came upon some historical anthropological dig
[06:33] <pyramid> t35t0r, i fear the author paid a very high price to give you that little information.
[06:34] <riley> yeah i'll probably end up having to
[06:34] <t35t0r> i don't really understand what that thing is
[06:34] <t35t0r> they found some kind of symbol
[06:34] <pyramid> t35t0r, well from the strange smells, loud screams, physical manifestations and so on ...this is very bothersome.
[06:34] <toyowheelin> well this gigabyte is working fine
[06:34] <riley> i've tried everything i know to try and i can't get it to work
[06:34] <t35t0r> maybe it's just ancient cave drawings ..maybe a burial tomb
[06:34] <toyowheelin> and it prefoms well
[06:34] <t35t0r> pyramid, i don't believe very much in the supernatural ..
[06:34] <riley> and since it's not the processor i can't think of what else could be the problem
[06:35] <pyramid> t35t0r, well just read the facts that we have...and give it some thought.
[06:35] <toyowheelin> riley, whats it do in linux?
[06:35] <t35t0r> pyramid, heh well i was in the middle of listening to RMS on software patents
[06:35] <toyowheelin> is it just not seeing everythin
[06:35] <riley> toyowheelin, linux just refuses to work, particularly X doesn't like it
[06:36] <pyramid> t35t0r, well RMS has a very important point but unfortunately IBM and MS have lots of $$$$ and this buys costly patents.
[06:36] <toyowheelin> riley, that could be your video card too
[06:36] <riley> and yeah it doesn't see the nic
[06:36] <toyowheelin> oh...
[06:36] <toyowheelin> yeah
[06:36] <riley> and in ubuntu sudo doesn't work
[06:36] <riley> so i can't do anything about it
[06:36] <toyowheelin> sudo su
[06:36] <toyowheelin> password
[06:36] <t35t0r> pyramid, i'm thinking of patenting some ehrmm software
[06:36] <kremlyn> Heathen!
[06:37] <kremlyn> Software patents will be the death of us all!
[06:37] <t35t0r> its actually worse
[06:37] <pyramid> t35t0r, but i think www.holyshiite.com/caver and RMS are both making important points...
[06:37] <riley> no matter what i do with sudo, it breaks the terminal so that i have to shut down with the power button
[06:37] <kremlyn> I am meeting RMS in 4 days :-D
[06:37] <t35t0r> pyramid, its better to be down to earth
[06:37] <Treenaks> riley: that sounds.. strange..
[06:37] <t35t0r> kremlyn, where is he giving a speech?
[06:37] <t35t0r> au?
[06:37] <pyramid> t35t0r, caver is down to earth as you can get....it is below the earth.
[06:37] <t35t0r> pyramid, heh funnny
[06:38] <t35t0r> yea but caver could be completely phoney
[06:38] <toyowheelin> riley, have you tried redownloading the iso and burning another copy
[06:38] <encKe`> hiya P
[06:38] <t35t0r> riley, how about md5suming the thing
[06:38] <t35t0r> jeez
[06:38] <toyowheelin> or that
[06:38] <toyowheelin> lol
[06:38] <pyramid> t35t0r, no i don't think it is a hoax...the writing is too bad to be a hoax...something really happened and the dog sensed it.
[06:38] <t35t0r> pyramid, you're naivete will be the end of you
[06:39] <riley> no, i haven't mdsummed it, but since it happens with a bunch of distros that's probably not the problem, but i'll try it anyway
[06:39] <pyramid> t35t0r, well at least i won't have that Satanic shadow bothering me like www.holyshiite.com/caver
[06:39] <toyowheelin> humm I dont know but its past my bed time so I am off
[06:40] <toyowheelin> nice talking to you riley
[06:40] <riley> you too toyowheelin
[06:40] <toyowheelin> c-ya everyone
[06:40] <supertux_> is anyone haveing serious problems with firefox and mozilla?
[06:41] <t35t0r> you can't fight software patents there are too many dumb people
[06:41] <t35t0r> if you can't beat 'em join 'em
[06:41] <Treenaks> fabbione: do you think the strace is usable/
[06:41] <t35t0r> and if they get beat well i'll just have to innovate
[06:43] <t35t0r> kremlyn, btw most of the world thinks nix users are heathens heh
[06:43] <t35t0r> its sad but true
[06:44] <fabbione> Treenaks: hold on a sec.. i am trying to understand if i am alive first ;)
[06:45] <fabbione> Treenaks: do you think you can install -dbg and give me a gdb backtrace instead?
[06:45] <fabbione> i will be back in 10 minutes...
[06:47] <riley> how do you do that think where you say your username does whatever (sorry, i'm an IRC newb if you can't tell :-D)
[06:47] <crimsun> riley: /me
[06:48] <crimsun> riley: or /action
[06:48] <t35t0r> Usage: ME <action>, sends the action to the current channel (actions are written in the 3rd person, like /me jumps)
[06:49] <riley> thanks crimsun!
[06:50] <riley> also, how do you leave a message when you leave? just /quit <message> ?
[06:51] <t35t0r> I'm going to patent this software just to create havoc
[06:51] <t35t0r> so that people can see that's its a bad idea
[06:51] <t35t0r> :>
[06:51] <t35t0r> and hopefully get more media attention on the issue
[06:51] <t35t0r> which is what needs to be done
[06:52] <fable> yeah media attention rocks
[06:55] <LeeColleton> except the media doesn't have any attention
[06:55] <LeeColleton> the media has focus, that's it
[06:55] <t35t0r> that's what i meant put its focus on the issue
[06:56] <LeeColleton> they travel and think in packs, demonstrating a massive defecit of serious attention to anything
[06:56] <fable> oh i disadgree, the media has so much attention...
[06:56] <fable> people focus their attention on the media...
[06:56] <t35t0r> yea its funny how they are like hyenas
[06:56] <fable> giving it attention
[06:56] <t35t0r> i've stopped watching tv
[06:57] <t35t0r> like a year ago
[06:57] <fable> i dont what the fsck im saying
[06:57] <fable> same
[06:57] <fable> well i watch some things
[06:57] <t35t0r> heh i don't know if it was good or not ..probably been spending more time on the keyboard
[06:57] <fable> but i dont watch most networks anymore
[06:58] <fable> tv , computer... same stuff
[06:58] <topgun601> hi all
[06:58] <t35t0r> well i can be doing something productive
[06:58] <t35t0r> discussing etc as i am now
[06:59] <fable> rather than nothing at all
[06:59] <fable> so the computer is a much better sorce for information than tv
[06:59] <t35t0r> i thoroughly believe that having ADD is not a disease
[06:59] <LeeColleton> fable: the television is a broadcast medium, where one channel communicates to many viewers.  The Internet opens the possibility of many channels communicating to many viewers, who can in turn become active participants.
[06:59] <t35t0r> fable: yes you get to research on your own
[07:00] <t35t0r> hehe that's why i can't sit ther and watch the television
[07:00] <LeeColleton> the Internet is much more democratic than the tele, which is why The Corporation fears it.
[07:00] <fable> heh yeah
[07:01] <t35t0r> you'll never hear RMS even on PBS
[07:01] <LeeColleton> Do we have any Microsoft employees in the channel?
[07:01] <LeeColleton> Don't be afraid, we won't bite.
[07:01] <t35t0r> probably
[07:01] <t35t0r> i'm on winxp atm
[07:01] <t35t0r> heh
[07:01] <fable> I'm against microsoft all the way
[07:01] <t35t0r> i don't even have a nix box of my own
[07:01] <fable> just by what im using
[07:02] <fable> modded xbox, downloaded windows xp
[07:02] <fable> corporate
[07:03] <LeeColleton> fable: using Microsoft products is a way of showing your support for their company
[07:03] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, you can
[07:03] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, there's an entire book written on it
[07:03] <t35t0r> i'm not surprise it hasn't been banned by DMCA in the usa
[07:03] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: I have a v1.5 xbox.  The GPU is incompatible
[07:04] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, hrrmm nothing is "incompatible"
[07:04] <LeeColleton> rather, there are no drivers for the v1.5 GPU
[07:04] <t35t0r> that' doesn't mean its incompatible
[07:04] <LeeColleton> no open source drivers
[07:04] <t35t0r> it just needs to be reversed
[07:04] <t35t0r> no open source means it has to be reversed
[07:04] <riley> there's a book on installing linux on an xbox? lol that's awesome, of course i will never give m$ $150 so it doesn't matter...
[07:05] <LeeColleton> right, but that's a difficult thing when you're talking about an IC that deals with HF and unpublished codecs
[07:05] <joem> buy one used
[07:05] <riley> lol that works
[07:05] <LeeColleton> joem: what, am I made of money?
[07:05] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, you have to see what inputs give what outputs on the ic its very complicated ..prohibitive
[07:05] <joem> was taking to riley in regards to giving microsoft money
[07:05] <LeeColleton> I'm probably going to trade my xbox for an older version
[07:06] <fable> yeah gentoox is a really good os done
[07:06] <fable> its for the xbox
[07:07] <fable> and if i only have spent 150 toward all the M$ products
[07:07] <fable> then its not really helping their companies
[07:07] <soleblaze> question..i'm trying to setup ubuntu using debootstrap.. but I can't find which mirror to use
[07:07] <t35t0r> you've probably spent much more money on nix
[07:07] <t35t0r> you're time
[07:07] <soleblaze> anyone know which mirror i use?
[07:07] <fable> actully i have
[07:08] <fable> i spent money on usb cables for the xbox for linux
[07:08] <fable> my other harddrive has slack10 on it
[07:08] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: I just spent an evening getting my printer to work (which it now does).  I can't quite figure out what I did though...
[07:08] <fable> just got that working a couple of days ago
[07:08] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, yea thats nix
[07:08] <soleblaze> can someone tell me a ubuntu mirror?
[07:09] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, linux-wlan-ng fried my built-in prism3 USB wireless device in my laptop
[07:09] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, now it won't even work in XP
[07:09] <t35t0r> when i dual boot
[07:09] <LeeColleton> Linux.  It's only free if your time isn't worth anything.
[07:09] <fable> ive never tried wifi... is it any good
[07:09] <t35t0r> the things we do to get stuff working in nix
[07:09] <joem> xboxs are sold at a loss iirc
[07:09] <joem> they make their money on games
[07:09] <fable> i buy games to support the company making the game
[07:09] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: that is from 2001
[07:10] <fable> like i have a preorder on halo 2... just to support bungie
[07:10] <LeeColleton> fable: but that company pays huge licensing fees to MS
[07:10] <LeeColleton> I'm going to buy halo 2 myself.. probably.
[07:10] <fable> I don't know... well i geuss i am wrong
[07:10] <fable> bungie is owned by M$
[07:10] <t35t0r> yea pretty much pwned
[07:11] <t35t0r> they can't live without each other at the moment
[07:11] <fable> i just got the preorder so i could get the game WHEN it comes out
[07:11] <fable> i couldnt get Fable 2 weeks after it was released
[07:11] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: WTF does pwned mean?  Is that supposed to be some clever misspelling of owned?
[07:11] <bob2> bungie is OWNED by MS
[07:11] <elmaya> how do i set the clock to not use utc
[07:12] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwned
[07:12] <t35t0r> ya
[07:12] <t35t0r> its annoying
[07:12] <t35t0r> pwn3d
[07:12] <bob2> elmaya: edit /etc/default/rcS, but have you checked the BTS if you're having a clock problem?
[07:12] <fable> i know thats what i said
[07:12] <elmaya> bts?
[07:12] <fable> MS has the rights toward the coompany Bungie
[07:13] <fable> pure OWNAGE
[07:13] <LeeColleton> is that similar to slavery?
[07:13] <LeeColleton> ownership of another human
[07:13] <bob2> no, it just bought them out.
[07:13] <bob2> elmaya: /topic
[07:13] <fable> yeah what bob2 said
[07:15] <riley> what's the command to create a new user?
[07:15] <bob2> riley: adduser
[07:15] <t35t0r> add it manually to passwd
[07:15] <fable> yeah i also screw M$ over by softmodding xboxs
[07:15] <LeeColleton> Never been easier.. to turn users off of Linux
[07:15] <riley> bob2: thanks
[07:15] <t35t0r> and etc group
[07:15] <bob2> fable: that's not screwing them, you bought an xbox from them.
[07:16] <fable> but they lose money when people buy xboxs
[07:16] <LeeColleton> oh, if I put ubuntu on my computer then my kids will be able to download music and look at porn.  Great! chinese food
[07:16] <bob2> fable: they lose more if it sits in their warehouse.
[07:16] <fable> haha
[07:16] <LeeColleton> bob2: they lose even more if those warehouses catch fire
[07:17] <t35t0r> how are people able to sell these xboxes on ebay with like 120games on them ..its so illegal
[07:17] <fable> yeah where are their warehouses anyways
[07:17] <fable> ive softmodded all my friends boxs
[07:17] <t35t0r> see the thing is you can sell modchip's its just illegal to sell premodded xboxes
[07:17] <t35t0r> fable: see that's illegal
[07:17] <bob2> fable: so by buying them, all you've done is give MS money.
[07:17] <fable> i know
[07:17] <LeeColleton> foriegn countries, mostly.  Malaysia and china I think.. Maybe Mexico
[07:18] <t35t0r> fable: and if you were making money you would definately be a felon heh
[07:18] <bob2> t35t0r: only in some oppressive countries like the USA and Australia.
[07:18] <fable> also ive copied 24 or so xbox games today
[07:18] <t35t0r> bob2, yes
[07:18] <fable> fucking them over more
[07:18] <bob2> fable: this is not a warez channel.
[07:18] <t35t0r> bob2, most of western eurpon too
[07:18] <soleblaze> anyone here familiar with setting up ubuntu on a diskless system?
[07:18] <fable> sry ill stop
[07:18] <LeeColleton> http://www.xbox-linux.org/docs/manufacturing.html
[07:18] <bob2> t35t0r: yeah :/
[07:18] <bob2> fable: thank you.
[07:18] <fable> linux is legal on xboxs
[07:18] <t35t0r> linux is not legal
[07:18] <t35t0r> on xboxes
[07:18] <fable> I think, if you use a opensorce bios
[07:19] <joem> sony ps 2 linux kit
[07:19] <t35t0r> because it allows you to rip the games
[07:19] <fable> is there such thing?
[07:19] <joem> yea
[07:19] <t35t0r> in the us anyways
[07:19] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: what I do with my xbox in the privacy of my home is my business
[07:19] <bob2> This seems fairly off-topic, guys.
[07:19] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, yes
[07:19] <LeeColleton> can we install ubuntu on the xbox?
[07:19] <fable> bob2: really off topic
[07:19] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, i imagine it would be the same as installing any other
[07:19] <bob2> yeah.
[07:19] <bob2> LeeColleton: no.
[07:20] <fable> LeeColleton: someone with some linux/xbox programming skill could port it
[07:20] <t35t0r> mang it gets boring addressing n00bs "I CAN't get dOom3 to work, hep me!!
[07:20] <t35t0r> hehe
[07:20] <t35t0r> what are we t odo ??!
[07:20] <fable> doom3 in linux?
[07:20] <t35t0r> fable: it's just a joke heh
[07:20] <fable> is that possible?
[07:20] <t35t0r> cedega says so
[07:20] <soleblaze> so no one here has any idea how to get ubuntu working bootless?
[07:20] <HrdwrBoB> fable: I use winex to play doom3 in linux
[07:20] <fable> thats BULL...
[07:20] <topgun601> thy have beta
[07:21] <fable> HrdwrBoB: doom 3 run well?
[07:21] <LeeColleton> Someone on the mailing list suggested having ubuntu's xchat connect to this channel by default.
[07:21] <HrdwrBoB> not really
[07:21] <HrdwrBoB> :)
[07:21] <HrdwrBoB> nah it's ok
[07:21] <HrdwrBoB> about a 15% performance hit though
[07:21] <t35t0r> doom3 was such a disappointment for me  ..it just doesn't have the fun factor of a game like ut2k4
[07:21] <HrdwrBoB> t35t0r: it's a horror game
[07:22] <fable> ut2004 rocks...
[07:22] <topgun601> more like horable
[07:22] <t35t0r> Hrdwr_BoB, so was doom , doom II, but they pwned
[07:22] <fable> i want to play on linux... but my cd2 is scrached
[07:22] <pyramid> why do so many people want to put ubuntu on xbox,ps2 , and now gamecube just to steal all the games.
[07:22] <bob2> pyramid: they don't.
[07:22] <t35t0r> pyramid, they don't
[07:22] <bob2> pyramid: it's a very small group, but they're very vocal
[07:22] <fable> yeah nobody does...
[07:22] <t35t0r> pyramid, its just a challenge ..like linux from scratch
[07:22] <bob2> pyramid: the vast majority of linux users take copyright seriously
[07:22] <fable> there is already software that does that..
[07:22] <t35t0r> or like building your own box for the first time
[07:23] <t35t0r> bob2, that's so not true
[07:23] <pyramid> well i saw the gamecube linux server and it had over 40 pirated games online for download...buy why?
[07:23] <fable> pyramid: people choose to save the money of not buying games...
[07:24] <t35t0r> i hate games in general ..except for ut2k4 cause i like blowing things up and venting anger stress
[07:24] <t35t0r> hehe
[07:24] <t35t0r> and running over people in the hummer and tank
[07:24] <pyramid> bob2,  i mean i don't care...i am not paid by MS or anyone to care...but i just don't understand why so many people like to pirate all the games.
[07:24] <t35t0r> and hearing them scream
[07:24] <fable> haha
[07:24] <t35t0r> muahwbhaahha
[07:24] <bob2> pyramid: I don't get it either
[07:24] <fable> and getting the thing that goes
[07:25] <fable> crap cant remember...
[07:25] <bob2> anyway, pirating games for any OS is entirely off-topic here
[07:25] <HrdwrBoB> I have an xbox
[07:25] <bob2> go to #warez or something if you want to continue it
[07:25] <HrdwrBoB> I chipped it so I could use xbox media center
[07:25] <fable> XBMC ROCKS!
[07:25] <t35t0r> bob2, little do they know what happens if you go t #warez
[07:25] <pyramid> bob2, i mean it is no big deal they have all the tools on Linux to write their own multimillion dollar games so why pirate somebody else's.
[07:25] <fable> so much
[07:25] <HrdwrBoB> ... to play my pirated movies!!
[07:25] <t35t0r> i think you get auto k=linked
[07:25] <fable> BEST MEDIA CENTER FOR ANY OS!
[07:25] <t35t0r> k-lined
[07:25] <HrdwrBoB> wellm no
[07:25] <fable> beats ANYTHING!
[07:25] <bob2> t35t0r: oh, good point
[07:26] <bob2> go to #warezkiddies or something then.
[07:26] <HrdwrBoB> fable: it's irritating because my xbox is an unstable useless heap of crap and I can't get XMBC for linux
[07:26] <q2> hey
[07:26] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, why do so many people want to pirate movies also.
[07:26] <bob2> pyramid: I don't know, it's always seemd fairly pathetic to me
[07:26] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: because they're expensive
[07:26] <topgun601> any one have problems installing the drivers for a 9800 pro after following the dirctons in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto ?
[07:26] <pyramid> bob2, i mean they have all the tools on Linux to create their own multimillion dollar movies so why pirate somebody else's
[07:26] <t35t0r> heh i would if (join() =~ /warez/) { kline($user); }
[07:26] <HrdwrBoB> a new movie in au can be  $30-40
[07:26] <fable> HrdwrBoB: I think its really cool... I use to watch movies and stuff off the computer
[07:26] <bob2> pyramid: exactly
[07:27] <HrdwrBoB> not to mention we get movies literally MONTHS after other countries
[07:27] <bob2> HrdwrBoB: then order from overseas.
[07:27] <bob2> oh, wait, you can't.
[07:27] <t35t0r> haha
[07:27] <t35t0r> yea you cna't
[07:27] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well who wants a movie anyway...who wants to hear all that propoganda.
[07:27] <t35t0r> DVD region 1
[07:27] <t35t0r> DVD region 2
[07:27] <t35t0r> blah blah
[07:27] <fable> I want to see Ghost in the Shell 2
[07:28] <t35t0r> really ..has anyone see that "you don't know bleep" movie
[07:28] <fable> Region Free owns
[07:28] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: I watch movies to enjoy myself
[07:28] <fable> havent heard of it...
[07:28] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, it is all propoganda and someone else's belief system...so why bother.
[07:28] <HrdwrBoB> I'm not sure what movies you're watching
[07:28] <t35t0r> its not out here until oct 15
[07:28] <t35t0r> i'll go watch it ..just because it's "different"
[07:28] <t35t0r> hehe
[07:28] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: sounds like you are a bit of a wowser
[07:29] <HrdwrBoB> "why pirate movies"
[07:29] <t35t0r> the thing with propaganda is it can be funny to listen to or watch ..just make up your own mind
[07:29] <HrdwrBoB> "because X"
[07:29] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, no after spending 20years in college listening to everyone else's propoganda...i don't want to hear anymore.
[07:29] <HrdwrBoB> "well then why watch it at all"
[07:29] <HrdwrBoB> there's your problem
[07:29] <HrdwrBoB> overeducation :)
[07:29] <fable> haha
[07:29] <t35t0r> heh i'm gonna listen to some more rms
[07:29] <q2> My screensavers get horrible frame rates.  Libranet got awesome ones
[07:29] <LeeColleton> I would like to use my webcam with ubuntu.  It is a sn9c102.  V4L2 recognizes it and assigns /dev/video0
[07:30] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, i mean really...why bias your thought system with Matrix, or Van Helsing.
[07:30] <LeeColleton> None of the cam apps will work with it.  What to do?
[07:30] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: or you could just watch it
[07:30] <fable> never used a netcam in linux...
[07:30] <bob2> q2: do ou have hardware accelration enabled?
[07:30] <q2> not sure
[07:30] <fabbione> LeeColleton: xawtv should do
[07:30] <t35t0r> movies no matter what "propaganda" they may have are always a form of art ..which should be appreciated simply because it is art ..art for its own sake
[07:30] <fable> Yeah make sure you have the right modules in...
[07:30] <fabbione> LeeColleton: it grabs data from V4L
[07:30] <t35t0r> even if the movie is terrible
[07:30] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, but even watching it subconcsientously affects your mentality.
[07:31] <bob2> q2: what sort of card do you have?
[07:31] <fabbione> LeeColleton: just check the man page to see how to use /dev/video0
[07:31] <q2> Voodoo 3 PCI 16aMB
[07:31] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: OH NOES my mentality
[07:31] <t35t0r> mang some people use some funky old hardware
[07:31] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: do you have a tinfoil hat?
[07:31] <q2> ya
[07:31] <fable> I don't know much of what is supported in ubuntu
[07:31] <t35t0r> pyramid does have a tinfoil hat
[07:31] <q2> i also do
[07:31] <t35t0r> he was talking about that crazy stuff in the cave
[07:32] <pyramid> t35t0r, well art can be very misleading...just becasue you label it ART doesn't mean it should have a HALO around it.
[07:32] <HrdwrBoB> but it doesn't mean you should be scared of looking at it
[07:32] <t35t0r> pyramid, no but it still can be appreciated ...nazi art is still art ..albeit grotesque
[07:32] <HrdwrBoB> because it might affect you
[07:32] <fable> pyramid: Most people look at art as a form of entertainment
[07:32] <LeeColleton> fabbione: yeah, it pops up a window labled "???" that is completely black
[07:32] <t35t0r> even the MS BSOD is a form of art
[07:32] <LeeColleton> Gives some errors about "no way to get: 384x288 32 bit TrueColor (LE: bgr-)"
[07:32] <fabbione> LeeColleton: please check the man page. I am sure that it can do it. I just can't remember the switches
[07:32] <q2> I LOVE BSOD!
[07:32] <pyramid> fable, well the Greeks have been asking for thousands of years what is entertainment...they tried drama, music, art, etc.
[07:33] <q2> FROM ALL OSs!
[07:33] <t35t0r> the white on blue relaxes you into thinking nothing is wrong
[07:33] <t35t0r> its interesting they could have made the screen RSOD
[07:33] <t35t0r> red screen of death ..but made it blue ..calming
[07:33] <fable> Art can be seen as a expression through anything
[07:34] <fable> music, films, paintings, drawings, etc
[07:34] <t35t0r> even nix has it's black screen of death :>
[07:34] <LeeColleton> fabbione: the default device is /dev/video0, which is what came up in dmesg
[07:34] <t35t0r> i got one trying to modprobe linuxant's hsf winmodem drivers
[07:34] <LeeColleton> I think the issue is that the camera uses something called "bayer rgb"
[07:34] <t35t0r> I think that was too much taint for the kernel to handle
[07:34] <t35t0r> it just died
[07:34] <pyramid> my point is that ART conveys, biases,prejudices, propoganda and so on.
[07:34] <fable> Yeah it does...
[07:34] <fabbione> LeeColleton: unfortunatly i don't have a webcam to test with
[07:34] <t35t0r> pyramid, yea have you read MAUS
[07:35] <LeeColleton> none of the standard apps can read it, although v4l-info shows a bunch of information from the driver
[07:35] <fabbione> LeeColleton: the V4L is a standard. if the camera is hooked up, it should work.
[07:35] <pyramid> t35t0r, no I have not read MAUS...i don't wish to mess up my mind anymore with misleading thoughts,ideas,advice, and so on.
[07:35] <fabbione> LeeColleton: let me see if there is something we can try
[07:35] <fable> When the first release of Ubuntu are they sending cds out?
[07:36] <t35t0r> pyramid, i woudln't blame you
[07:36] <t35t0r> pyramid, in today's world of over extra sensory input
[07:36] <fable> because that would really help me with my dialup problem
[07:36] <t35t0r> pyramid, sometimes ignorance can be...
[07:36] <pyramid> t35t0r, well after 20years of reading all kinds of crap...and getting a PhD...i prefer to concentrate on nothingness.
[07:36] <jgeorgeson> i don't see an rc.local file, what do i use in place of it?
[07:36] <t35t0r> pyramid, what was your phd in
[07:37] <fable> how can you concentrate on nothing
[07:37] <pyramid> t35t0r, honestly my PhD was in Skotology...if you know Greek.
[07:37] <fable> also brings up does "nothing" exist
[07:37] <fabbione> LeeColleton: i think you can try webcam or came
[07:37] <pyramid> t35t0r, that would be Skatology
[07:38] <pyramid> if you do not know Greek...then the study of S#!@t
[07:38] <t35t0r> pyramid, i didn't think you were serious at first i had to look it up
[07:38] <t35t0r> are you serious?
[07:38] <LeeColleton> fabbione: camE sez "/dev/video0: no v4l device" and webcam sez "can't get rgb24 data"
[07:39] <LeeColleton> I think they're stymied by the "bayer rgb" thing
[07:39] <t35t0r> pyramid, just my opinion but i don't see how anyone could study anything much more worthless
[07:39] <pyramid> t35t0r, well actually the University would not admit such a thing so they labeled it Finance and Economics and Physics and Psychology...but i call it all S#@!t.
[07:39] <jgeorgeson> so, what do i use in absence of rc.local?
[07:39] <t35t0r> ahhh i see
[07:39] <fable> Well im going...
[07:39] <t35t0r> quite the cynic are we
[07:39] <fable> see you all later
[07:39] <fable> can't wait to try Ubuntu
[07:40] <t35t0r> i hope i'm not cynical after i get my phd ..
[07:40] <t35t0r> or too cynical
[07:41] <pyramid> t35t0r, well when you study quantum chemistry and find out that space is missing and because of that electrons follow peculiar orbits around protons..and also if you study quantum physics and find out that space and time are curved and frame dragging may exist...and so on.
[07:41] <t35t0r> i want to do my masters in photonics
[07:41] <t35t0r> its a bit more practical
[07:42] <t35t0r> frame dragging ..is that anything like phase shifting?
[07:42] <pyramid> t35t0r, no it is more like a spinning object dragging empty space and time around with it.
[07:43] <t35t0r> pyramid, i can't wait for the LIGOS BOINC project to get going
[07:43] <HrdwrBoB> it's quite obvious everything is relative
[07:43] <fabbione> LeeColleton: i think i found something.. i am checking the documentation
[07:43] <sabdfl> morning fabbione
[07:43] <t35t0r> pyramid, have you heard about it?
[07:43] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, if everything is relative..then how can we agree on the speed of light.
[07:44] <HrdwrBoB> the whole point is that humans don't work well if they actually understand all sorts of things like that
[07:44] <pyramid> in a vacuum and for the average photon speed.
[07:44] <HrdwrBoB> so I have a suspicion that you've broken your brain
[07:44] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, yes i have been legally insane for 15 years now.
[07:44] <fabbione> sabdfl: good morning :-)
[07:44] <LeeColleton> fabbione: thank you for even looking, I think that the development version of xawtv has support for bayer rgb
[07:45] <HrdwrBoB> who's to say you can't build a universe where pi=72 and the speed of light is slightly less than it is now
[07:45] <fabbione> LeeColleton: you need this: http://go.lamarinapunto.com/modules/mydownloads/
[07:45] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, remember for a vacuum and average photon speed.
[07:45] <t35t0r> you mean the speed of light in a vacu,
[07:45] <t35t0r> uum
[07:45] <t35t0r> heh
[07:45] <fabbione> LeeColleton: it's a patched xawtv that supports the bayer rgb format AND v4l2
[07:45] <fabbione> LeeColleton: the driver should be ok.
[07:46] <fabbione> LeeColleton: but there are updated sn9c10x drivers too.
[07:46] <t35t0r> c = sqrt (relative permeability * relative permittivity) ?
[07:46] <topyli> HrdwrBoB: well, i can't do it, that's pretty sure (for now)
[07:46] <t35t0r> i think that's correct
[07:46] <LeeColleton> fabbione: should I uninstall the prepackaged version of xawtv?
[07:46] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, if you want to talk about individual photons going faster or slower than light this does not necessarily affect the average.
[07:46] <fabbione> LeeColleton: up to you.. i would first try to compile the new xawtv and run it in the local/build dir
[07:46] <fabbione> LeeColleton: there is no real need to de-install the other one
[07:47] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: no, what about a theoreticaly unverse that has different constants
[07:47] <LeeColleton> yeah, I guess I could just leave it in /usr/local/bin
[07:47] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well you can construct anything in your mind but if you make it phsical the big bang might destroy it.
[07:48] <HrdwrBoB> but if you can think it, then it can be
[07:48] <HrdwrBoB> because the only truly existing world is the world inside your head
[07:48] <HrdwrBoB> everything else could be lies
[07:48] <LeeColleton> does the steady state model of the universe still hold any credence?  or is it on par with the flat earth theory
[07:49] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well notice that the earth could in fact be flat with round edges.
[07:49] <LeeColleton> the world is topologically flat (except for tunnels)
[07:50] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, in fact the width of the earth could actually just be a dot to a fast traveler.
[07:50] <t35t0r> pyramid, you would like the "you don't know bleep movie"
[07:50] <t35t0r> pyramid, it's all about reality in a "quantum" universe
[07:51] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, just oversimplifying with some risk the Lorentz contraction.
[07:51] <LeeColleton> fabbione: when I try to ./configure then make xawtv I get "make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/3.2.2/include/stddef.h', needed by `console/dump-mixers.o'.  Stop."
[07:51] <pyramid> t35t0r, well Planck was always bothered about the time.
[07:51] <t35t0r> http://www.whatthebleep.com/
[07:51] <fabbione> LeeColleton: amen :-) that needs some work
[07:52] <t35t0r> pyramid, i have to run a perl script on this nix box every 30 mins to set its time
[07:52] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: http://www.dougaustin.com/tlcaves/pdf/Thefearofdarkness.pdf
[07:52] <t35t0r> i mean on this winxp laptop
[07:52] <HrdwrBoB> that is the source of that story
[07:52] <LeeColleton> fabbione: so, can I comment something out?  this seems to be needed for redhat but maybe not debian?
[07:52] <fabbione> LeeColleton: i can try to look at it later. but it won't be before a few hours
[07:52] <HrdwrBoB> which is entirely a work of fiction
[07:52] <HrdwrBoB> (though a good one)
[07:52] <fabbione> LeeColleton: i need to look at the code
[07:52] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, i prefer to worry about that individual that wondered into the cave in www.holyshiite.com/caver
[07:52] <t35t0r> pyramid, how was planck botherd about time
[07:52] <fabbione> LeeColleton: difficult to say without ;)
[07:53] <HrdwrBoB> er
[07:53] <HrdwrBoB> no
[07:53] <HrdwrBoB> the link I pasted is a short story almost exactly the same as that story
[07:53] <HrdwrBoB> which predates it by ... a long time
[07:53] <pyramid> t35t0r, well planck was convinced that elements of time do not exist at all..that it may occur only in quantum intervals.
[07:53] <HrdwrBoB> yes, the instant of time
[07:53] <HrdwrBoB> the tick of the universe
[07:53] <t35t0r> pyramid, well that's precisely the theory behind quantum / atomic clocks is it not?
[07:54] <ionrock> does anyone know how I can get tap support on my touchpad?
[07:54] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well if time and space are missing...what is in their place.
[07:54] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: magic
[07:54] <ionrock> I looked at tpconfig but there is some issue with 2.6 and how it handles the mouse that makes it not really work.
[07:54] <t35t0r> ionrock, when i just tap the touchpad it double clicks you mean
[07:54] <t35t0r> ionrock, fix i
[07:54] <t35t0r> ionrock, fix it
[07:54] <ionrock> t35t0r, yeah
[07:55] <ionrock> It won't click now
[07:55] <t35t0r> i've never tried that on my laptop
[07:55] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well magic is another way of saying that something might be going on at www.holyshiite.com/caver
[07:55] <t35t0r> i always use an external mouse
[07:55] <t35t0r> then again i never really use my laptop on my lap
[07:55] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: no, that would be bloody mindedness
[07:55] <t35t0r> it's just a desktop replacement
[07:55] <ionrock> t35t0r, I am using mine on my lap right now :)
[07:56] <t35t0r> ionrock, yea thought so ..don't burn your testicles off
[07:56] <t35t0r> ionrock, or your werr .weell
[07:56] <ionrock> I noticed in my xf86config that the mouse is setup as a IMPS or whatever it is instead of a touchpad.
[07:56] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well it is a fact that even if we had an earlier sun that exploded after creating the heavier elements and formed our planets and everything we see around us..still how did living bacteria and algae form out of inorganic elements.
[07:56] <ionrock> I am thinking changeing that would do it
[07:57] <ionrock> I just wish I had a little more insight on the topci
[07:57] <t35t0r> pyramid, it's chance
[07:57] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: yes, and I agree that it's certainly odd
[07:57] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, think about this seriously...because even if we are just an evolved form of stinking bacteria...still that bacteria had something magical about it.
[07:57] <HrdwrBoB> but if you're using that as a reason to beleive in that story when it's obviously plagiariesd
[07:57] <HrdwrBoB> it makes you an idiot
[07:57] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: I could not agree more
[07:57] <t35t0r> pyramid, its statistical probability that if you put such and such chemicals together they will combine to form amino acids ...proteins ..cells etc
[07:58] <t35t0r> pyramid, i'm sure you know that there has been work at creating "life in a bottle"
[07:58] <t35t0r> pyramid, but it takes billions of years
[07:58] <pyramid> t35t0r, you are referring to very complex molecular behavior even in simple bacteria...how did atoms get up and decide to get together to form living breathing eating crapping bacteria.
[07:58] <t35t0r> pyramid, you don't know much about biology
[07:59] <t35t0r> pyramid, i work in a protein crystallography lab ..
[07:59] <pyramid> t35t0r, even with trillions of years...how did inorganic elements get up and collect together in very sophisticated patterns.
[07:59] <t35t0r> pyramid, it's statistical probability ..and to you statistics is probably a "bunch of lies"
[07:59] <t35t0r> so i can't expect you to understand ..you're too preconditioned
[07:59] <pyramid> t35t0r, lies, damn lies, and more damn lies.
[07:59] <LeeColleton> pyramid: uh.. have you ever seen crystals form?
[07:59] <t35t0r> i thought so hehe
[08:00] <LeeColleton> crystals form by magic.  PFM
[08:00] <t35t0r> i can't blame you .. i really hate statistics
[08:00] <pyramid> LeeColleton, i am talking about living/breating,eating,crapping bacteria...not inorganic crystals.
[08:00] <t35t0r> its my worst subject
[08:00] <t35t0r> pyramid, it's the same process
[08:00] <pyramid> LeeColleton, everyday the bacteria takes a crap in your mouth.
[08:01] <t35t0r> pyramid, what are the bacteria made of
[08:01] <LeeColleton> pyramid: the difference between crystal formation and organic self-assembly is slight
[08:01] <pyramid> t35t0r, no not even with the wildest imagination is it the same process...heat a rock all you want..does it come alive.
[08:01] <t35t0r> pyramid, it's not jut simply heating a rock
[08:01] <pyramid> t35t0r, ok put pressure on a rock all you want ...does it come alive.
[08:01] <LeeColleton> in a sense, we are all huge liquid crystals due to the properties of the continuious connective tissues throughout our bodies
[08:02] <t35t0r> pyramid, once again you are completely misrepresenting it
[08:02] <t35t0r> its not just a rock
[08:02] <LeeColleton> collagen is a superconductor of high freq at room temperatures
[08:02] <t35t0r> it's a collection of elements in the right amount namely C H N O P & S
[08:02] <pyramid> t35t0r, i am not misrepresenting it...the point is that we know life came to this earth...since it did it could have come again and manifested itself inside the Virgin Mary.
[08:02] <t35t0r> that make life .."as we know it" ..i can't speak for Si based life if there is such a thng
[08:03] <t35t0r> oh great
[08:03] <t35t0r> i'm not discussing this any further
[08:03] <t35t0r> hhe
[08:03] <pyramid> t35t0r, think about the sophistication of even a simple molecule like DNA....how could atomic elements get up one day and organize themselves into such complex and brilliant patterns.
[08:04] <t35t0r> pyramid, because its one of the most efficient ways to organize that much dat
[08:04] <t35t0r> a
[08:04] <t35t0r> it's a matter of evolution
[08:04] <pyramid> t35t0r, rocks don't evolve to become alive.
[08:04] <t35t0r> if you know aything about life and how it supposedly began
[08:05] <t35t0r> cells didn't even use DNA in their very infancy
[08:05] <t35t0r> they used RNA
[08:05] <t35t0r> to hold their genetic information
[08:05] <pyramid> t35t0r, you might explain the inorganic elements we find but not the appearance of organic life.
[08:05] <daWhippa> it began with God at his *NIX terminal
[08:05] <t35t0r> and RNA is much less advanced ..but cells did this for millions of years ..then it became DNA during the course of evolution
[08:06] <t35t0r> pyramid, no ..only god can ..since once again its statistical
[08:06] <pyramid> t35t0r, even RNA is a brilliant molecular structure
[08:06] <t35t0r> pyramid, brilliant yes ..but as you said it ..not as complex as dna
[08:06] <t35t0r> i could easily see how RNA could have formed itself
[08:06] <t35t0r> that's why i avidly believe that we are not  alone in this universe hhe
[08:07] <pyramid> t35t0r, you see it seems to take very sophisticated patterns to sustain life....how could inorganic elements decide to get together and form these kinds of patterns.
[08:07] <t35t0r> bah i can't discuss anythign with you
[08:07] <fridge> rhythmbox really needs to come with more radio station presets
[08:07] <daWhippa> it aint so much the molecular structures that are amazing as the replication processes
[08:07] <t35t0r> pyramid, i'm just trying to give you a scientific explanation believe it or not doesn't matter
[08:07] <pyramid> t35t0r, that is fine..that you believe life came from somewhere else in the universe but how did stinking bacteria form there....life came...we know that..and it may have come again in the Virgin Mary.
[08:07] <ionrock> does anyone know why I get an error when trying to apt-get update with the universe sources? I get a gzip error, as though the pkg list is messed up or something
[08:08] <t35t0r> no i didn't say life came here from somewhere in the universe
[08:08] <pyramid> Jesus said he alone was Life....he was not willing to share this title with anyone else.
[08:08] <HrdwrBoB> oh yay
[08:08] <HrdwrBoB> religion
[08:09] <HrdwrBoB> the bible is a book.
[08:09] <t35t0r> i said that since life formed here from elementary elements -> rna -> dna etc i think its highly probable that it exists elsewhere in the universe
[08:09] <HrdwrBoB> written by men.
[08:09] <HrdwrBoB> end of story.
[08:09] <t35t0r> yea i don't know where the virgin mary should come up in the context of this discussion
[08:09] <pyramid> t35t0r, elements can't organize into living patterns....whether here or somewhere else.
[08:09] <t35t0r> i have the utmost respect for catholics
[08:09] <opi> http://grgaud.exchristian.info/
[08:09] <opi> ;-)
[08:10] <Xyverz> is it possible to convert an existing debian box to ubuntu? is that in the documentation anywhere?
[08:10] <Xyverz> (we're talking debian sarge)
[08:10] <t35t0r> Xyverz, heh i still don't understand the difference between debian and ubuntu
[08:11] <t35t0r> it uses apt-get / dpkg as its main package management..are some startup/user scripts different?
[08:11] <LeeColleton> Xyverz: it isn't safe to do so at this time.  Recommend you do a clean install
[08:11] <Xyverz> hmmmm
[08:11] <Xyverz> I was considering it on my laptop, but no CD drive.
[08:11] <Xyverz> well, that and my laptop is too slow to comfortable run GNOME anyway.
[08:11] <Xyverz> hmmm
[08:11] <topyli> Xyverz: some packages are named differently, so there may be confusion. script, persmission differences as well
[08:11] <Xyverz> maybe I'll just keep it at sarge for the time being.
[08:11] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: ubuntu is debian on a fixed release schedule.
[08:12] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, ahh i see now
[08:12] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, will it be possible to update just using apt-get ?
[08:12] <opi> backup -- try it -- report back :)
[08:12] <LeeColleton> plus it's supported by a profit motivated corporation (Canonical Inc.)
[08:13] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: yes.  same tools, different repositories.
[08:13] <LeeColleton> standard debian packages can be installed on an ubuntu system but it isn't advised
[08:13] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, well im seeing that currently there is no bleeding edge support
[08:13] <t35t0r> like xorg 6.8 etc
[08:13] <t35t0r> or am i wrong ? ...as far as apt-get packages are concerned
[08:14] <t35t0r> for the ubuntu repository
[08:14] <LeeColleton> dpkg only handles dependencies based on version numbers, so it's thrown off by the repackaging into PACKAGE-ubuntuX.Y.Z
[08:14] <t35t0r> its not really bleeding edge since i think xorg 6.8+ i'm not sure what minor version it is ..my cygwin is at xorg <IP_ADDRESS> or something hehe
[08:15] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: ubuntu is a subset of debian, with some bugs fixed
[08:15] <Elim_ppc>  could someone tell me if the /boot/.map files which should be in lilo.conf is that the system.map-kernel-2.6.8 file?
[08:15] <LeeColleton> so, no; they might not have the same bleeding edge experimental software that you can get on a straight debian system
[08:16] <t35t0r> Elim_ppc, huh
[08:16] <t35t0r> Elim_ppc, those map files have nothing to do wit hthe boot loader
[08:16] <Elim_ppc> im doing a x86 install and i need to configure thelilo.conf
[08:17] <t35t0r> ok?
[08:17] <bob2> Elim_ppc: no you don't.
[08:17] <bob2> Elim_ppc: ubuntu uses grub, and sets it up for you by default.
[08:17] <Elim_ppc> well all i get is 99 9 9 9 99 so yes i do
[08:17] <bob2> Elim_ppc: grub didn't install itself successfully?
[08:18] <Elim_ppc> can't handle grub its confusing
[08:18] <bob2> Elim_ppc: what's confusing about it?
[08:18] <Elim_ppc> no it all went pear shaped with grub
[08:19] <Elim_ppc> i think its the way it labels the hard drives really odd i dont know how it works
[08:20] <giorsat> serious bug of ubuntu in a sis chipset. at first boot even with noapic nolapic nopcmcia apci=off in grub the sistem hangs with a usb1-1 timeout in usbepoin.out. I dont' know what to do. any help will be welcomed as soon as it comes. please..
[08:21] <t35t0r> girosat: what's the SIS chipset
[08:21] <Elim_ppc> ill go on google again and keep searching.
[08:21] <LeeColleton> Elim_ppc: just run "update-grub" and forget about it
[08:21] <LeeColleton> "sudo update-grub"
[08:21] <bob2> giorsat: has someone filed that bug yet?
[08:22] <giorsat> sis 5530. it works with mandrake 10 (kernel 2.6.3)
[08:22] <bob2> Elim_ppc: if the default grub config doesn't work, it's a serious bug; can you double-check and file a bug please?
[08:22] <giorsat> it's a all in one computer lcd with sis650 graphic card. I know for sure pcmcia gives problems. bios doesn't allow to do mauch
[08:23] <giorsat> no filed bug. where?
[08:24] <Elim_ppc> ill file a bug in a minute i just want to try and get it working to see if it was my fault which it probably was.
[08:25] <t35t0r> giorsat, what's the kernel on the ubuntu?
[08:26] <Elim_ppc> <IP_ADDRESS> or similar.
[08:27] <giorsat> <IP_ADDRESS> the one of ubuntu previe 4.10
[08:27] <t35t0r> sometimes having usb support built into the kernel or as module vice versa has these kinds of problems
[08:27] <t35t0r> so toggle it
[08:28] <giorsat> how to toggle?
[08:28] <t35t0r> make menuconfig from /usr/src/linux
[08:28] <t35t0r> i'm sure you've configured you're own kernel before?
[08:29] <t35t0r> if its built into the kernel compile it as a module
[08:29] <bob2> Elim_ppc: the default grub config should work.  did you change it?
[08:29] <Elim_ppc> i have a felling it might be grub  from sid....
[08:29] <giorsat> never compiled anything. how can I if I don't' boot?
[08:30] <t35t0r> ohh boy
[08:30] <bob2> Elim_ppc: did you install ubuntu or upgrade from sid?
[08:30] <Elim_ppc> sid
[08:30] <t35t0r> figure out how to compile your own kernel ..
[08:30] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, you seem bothered by the fact that the bible was written by men....but remember these were not ordinary men...they were inspired by something capable of existing over eons of time
[08:30] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[08:31] <HrdwrBoB> I know people that have taken acid
[08:31] <fridge> I've taken heaps of acid
[08:31] <HrdwrBoB> tell me you wouldn't be hallucinating after 40 days without food
[08:31] <HrdwrBoB> a man is a man.
[08:31] <HrdwrBoB> end of story
[08:31] <fridge> thats a funny story
[08:31] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well i fail to see what acid has to do with Elias especially since he chose to be sawed in half...ordinary men don't do these things.
[08:32] <HrdwrBoB> haha
[08:32] <fridge> why is ubuntu discussin religion?
[08:32] <HrdwrBoB> do you know much about hallucinogenic drugs?
[08:32] <HrdwrBoB> fridge: good question
[08:32] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: timecube.com
[08:32] <HrdwrBoB> that site is for you
[08:33] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, Jesus said that he alone in the entire universe was life...he said before the universe was...I am...and that he was the alpha and the omega...the beginning and the end of all things.
[08:33] <HrdwrBoB> I can say that too
[08:33] <HrdwrBoB> but you would dismiss me as a fucking crackhead
[08:33] <topyli> fridge: desmond tutu inspiration is starting to take over at #ubuntu :)
[08:33] <HrdwrBoB> so I put it to you that jesus was a crackhead
[08:33] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, not really...did i dismiss the person at www.holyshiite.com/caver
[08:34] <HrdwrBoB> no but I did because it's a fiction story
[08:34] <HrdwrBoB> stolen from elsewhere
[08:34] <HrdwrBoB> and butchered to suit
[08:34] <fridge> topyli, haha
[08:34] <HrdwrBoB> *fictional
[08:34] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well your belief system won't allow you to analyze the facts because how could it be fiction if it was unfinished.
[08:35] <LeeColleton> pyramid: I'm noticing a trend; you seem to be taken in easily by fictional stories
[08:35] <HrdwrBoB> my beleif system told me to do a fucking basic search on google before accepting it was true
[08:35] <t35t0r> hahahaha
[08:35] <HrdwrBoB> which showed another story
[08:35] <HrdwrBoB> written YEARS earlier
[08:35] <LeeColleton> pyramid: Okay, I've got one...
[08:35] <HrdwrBoB> which was almost identical
[08:35] <pyramid> LeeColleton, well...to me fiction is how the inorganic elements formed SUFFICIENTLY COMPEX molecules in order to sustain life.
[08:36] <topyli> HrdwrBoB: doesn't make it untrue. or true. it's up to you
[08:36] <giorsat> so... what can I do? or where find info ?
[08:36] <topyli> HrdwrBoB: Hrdwr_BoB very much fucks up my tab completion
[08:36] <HrdwrBoB> yeah sorry about that, that's me at home
[08:36] <LeeColleton> pyramid: what does sufficiently complex mean?  Sufficient to overcome your deliberate disbelief?
[08:37] <t35t0r> pyramid, simply because you or i cannot understand doesn't mean there isn't a scientific explanation
[08:37] <HrdwrBoB> topyli: it makes it so incredibly unlikely to be true that it should be assumed that it isn't unless it's proven otherwise
[08:37] <topyli> and HrdwrBoB is supposed to be someone who doesn't believe in supernatural things!
[08:37] <fridge> but, in absence of that explanation
[08:37] <pyramid> LeeColleton, no the molecules must be very strategically put together to have SUFFICIENT complexity to SUSTAIN life.
[08:37] <HrdwrBoB> especially given that that's a mirror or the site which also links to something awful
[08:37] <t35t0r> science and western religions always have a difficult time ..this is not so with eastern cultures
[08:37] <topyli> two places at the same time!
[08:37] <fridge> saying god created it is just as valid as saying that theres an unexplained scientific phenonema at work
[08:38] <pyramid> LeeColleton, if they cannot sustain life it would cease to exist.
[08:38] <HrdwrBoB> t35t0r: indeed
[08:38] <HrdwrBoB> topyli: OMG! :)
[08:38] <topyli> heh
[08:38] <LeeColleton> pyramid: okay, here's a great fiction:  One day, a ball of clay was covered by crystaline RNA that attracted free floating ammino acids which folded up into protiens and encapsulated the RNA and the ball of clay.  Thusly the first "living" cell was born out of "non-living" matter.
[08:39] <LeeColleton> Voila, life.
[08:39] <HrdwrBoB> no
[08:39] <HrdwrBoB> that's not true
[08:39] <HrdwrBoB> I made life
[08:39] <|trey|> I have tried suns and blackdowns java... for some reason, it is deciding not to let me launch yahoo's java games (firefox dies instantaniously), anyone know what I could try, this has Just Work'ed TM in the past  :/
[08:39] <|trey|> (symlinked as required)
[08:39] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: launched firefox on a console to see what the error is?
[08:39] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, you still miss the point where and how did the RNA form
[08:39] <|trey|> Java is working on other sites
[08:39] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: I made it
[08:40] <bob2> |trey|: did you get the right version of the JRE?
[08:40] <wig> hey, i orderd the cds. how long that take to get to my ass?
[08:40] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, then you are God.
[08:40] <HrdwrBoB> correct
[08:40] <|trey|> bob2: before last install, this exact version worked...
[08:40] <bob2> wig: they'll be shipping soon after warty releases on the fifteenth of october.
[08:40] <HrdwrBoB> now we're getting somewhere
[08:40] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, you see protein folding doesn't explain life.
[08:40] <HrdwrBoB> ah but I can fold space
[08:40] <HrdwrBoB> he who controls the spice controls the universe!
[08:41] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, you can't even fold space where it doesn't exist.
[08:41] <HrdwrBoB> that's what you think
[08:41] <wig> how many cds you allowed to order?
[08:41] <bob2> wig: how many do you want?
[08:41] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: hmm, running it from the console fixes it... still not working from launcher in panel though, weird...
[08:41] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: haha heisenberg attacks again
[08:41] <wig> bob2, lol. i was just wondering how much they could do. cause remember that microsoft guy and he orderd 150?
[08:42] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, the only thing Heisenberg got right was that we will be uncertain.
[08:42] <bob2> wig: I'm sure lots of MS people have ordered Ubuntu cds.
[08:42] <wig> bob2, no i mean the sp2 cds
[08:42] <wig> bob2, some guy ordered 150
[08:42] <bob2> wig: sp2 = Windows Service Pack 2?
[08:42] <t35t0r> wth would ms people do with ubuntu
[08:42] <wig> bob2, yeah
[08:42] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: thats annoying... cept its saying something about maybe I'm behind a firewall? can't connect still... this is going to make me mad, yahoo pool is my time killer  :(
[08:42] <bob2> wig: oh, ok...
[08:43] <wig> bob2, yeah, he ordered 150
[08:43] <wig> cost m$ 1052 dollars. i ordered five myself.
[08:43] <wig> (the limit)
[08:43] <LeeColleton> the fact that space doesn't exist makes it so much easier to fold.
[08:43] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: are you behind a firewall?
[08:43] <t35t0r> maybe he has a beowulf cluster
[08:44] <pyramid> LeeColleton, i fail to see how you manipulate something that doesn't exist in certain areas for you to have it to manipulate.
[08:44] <aspro> Hello
[08:45] <jalil> hello all
[08:45] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, you see the bible was not written by one man...buy by many speaking with one constant voice over eons of time.
[08:45] <aspro> can anybody point me to where i might be able to configure sound card settings on ubuntu, i cant get my sound blaster audigy to play sound
[08:45] <neighborlee> where do I get  kernel source package for ubuntu ? ( 2.6.8)..i'm not finding it in apt
[08:45] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: you don't know that
[08:46] <HrdwrBoB> neighborlee: it should be on the CD now iirc
[08:46] <bob2> neighborlee: linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS>-3 or so
[08:46] <bob2> aspro: it wasn't setup automatically?
[08:46] <neighborlee> nope..uname -r shows: <IP_ADDRESS>-2-386
[08:46] <neighborlee> ill check cd
[08:46] <aspro> well it was, along with about 7 other devices, and i think it may be playing to the wrong one
[08:46] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, yes i do....take the predicions of Isaiah...follow time to see that the constant voice was again and again...through many people....and remember Jesus said I AM.
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> I AM
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> I said that too
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> ^ see
[08:47] <bwlang> uh... this channel is about ubuntu linux right?
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> it's even logged
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> bwlang: ubuntu and existenialism :/
[08:47] <neighborlee> heh
[08:47] <t35t0r> identity is formed by community ? wow never would have guessed that
[08:47] <bob2> bwlang: yes, but there's lots of off-topic chatter at the moment
[08:47] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well remember what Moses reported hearing and then I AM will begin to make sense.
[08:48] <aspro> so, no manual config program? like, say the Red Hat sound config program?
[08:48] <bob2> aspro: no
[08:48] <bob2> aspro: if it didn't get it to work by default, please file a bug
[08:48] <aspro> dang, well ill have to keep fiddling ;)
[08:48] <aspro> i dont think its a bug
[08:48] <bob2> aspro: if sound doesn't Just Work, it's a bug
[08:49] <bob2> (imho)
[08:49] <aspro> no, i have more than one soundcard installed
[08:49] <aspro> (cant remove onbaord)
[08:49] <neighborlee> HrdwrBoB, its not on cd...the cd is in my sources.list yet its only showing up to 2.6.7 ;-)
[08:49] <bwlang> aspro: you can probably disable it completey in the bios ...
[08:49] <aspro> probably
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> neighborlee: oh, that sucks, it will be in the repo though
[08:50] <t35t0r> "A self-sufficient human being is subhuman. I have gifts that you do not have, so consequently, I am unique--you have gifts that I do not have, so you are unique. God has made us so that we will need each other. We are made for a delicate network of interdependence." ..so am i to assume i will get no RTFM's in this channel no matter how ridiculously inept the question is ? hehhehe
[08:50] <neighborlee> HrdwrBoB, well oddly enough I can't find 2.6.8 source 'anywhere'
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> t35t0r: we are but human
[08:50] <t35t0r> Hrdwr_BoB, so says Tutu
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> one of our faults may be intolerance of stupidity :)
[08:50] <bob2> neighborlee: linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS> - Linux kernel source for version <IP_ADDRESS> with Debian patches
[08:50] <bwlang> t35t0r: what's that quote from?
[08:50] <bob2> neighborlee: (as I said before)
[08:50] <t35t0r> bwlang, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/books/ubuntutheology
[08:51] <topyli> tutu sounds like marx :)
[08:51] <t35t0r> he sounds like he's ahead of his time
[08:52] <HrdwrBoB> not reall
[08:52] <HrdwrBoB> y
[08:52] <t35t0r> topyli, i hope you don't equate marx with communism
[08:52] <HrdwrBoB> humans have not really changed over the last few thousand years
[08:52] <nux> how to i register as a member of the Ubuntu community???  i cant find anything on the website
[08:52] <topyli> t35t0r: surely not. not really with christianity either
[08:53] <t35t0r> topyli, rockefeller had the same ideals
[08:54] <topyli> t35t0r: ideals scmideals. i'm interested in his analysis :)
[08:54] <t35t0r> his analysis being that we can learn a great deal from each other ..to always look for the best in others
[08:54] <t35t0r> "what can i learn from this dude"
[08:54] <t35t0r> put bluntly
[08:54] <topyli> oh you mean tutu. i'm talking about marx
[08:55] <neighborlee> I presume the kernel source for ubuntu would be in warty right?..problem is apt-get update keeps giving me this for warty:: Err http://archive.ubuntu.com warty/main Sources
[08:55] <neighborlee>   Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[08:55] <t35t0r> ahh he was a socialist utopian
[08:56] <topyli> marx? certainly not. he did analysis of capitalism, that's all really
[08:56] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: happening again, says "Allocating more space for read msg 231; Segmentation fault" -- hopefully this is more enlightening for you then it is for me...
[08:56] <t35t0r> i'm sure he had to to look at both sides ..but a socialist he very much was
[08:56] <|trey|> Just tells me it died, I could see that  :/
[08:56] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: unfortunately not
[08:57] <LeeColleton> nux: the Ubuntu communtiy is more a frame of mind than a roll call.  You can sign up for the mailing list or make a page on the Wiki or something.  There isn't an offical community members list AFAIK
[08:57] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: that sucks... for some reason, it appears to work on the 20th try each time  :/
[08:57] <|trey|> Annoying  :/
[08:57] <bwlang> |trey|: segmentation fault means that the program has attempted to allocate memory that is already owned by another process... the OS disallows it... There is a bug in the program you're running
[08:58] <|trey|> I hate these little surprises when I reinstall  :/
[08:58] <Treenaks> LeeColleton: .. and why would there be :)
[08:58] <nux> how to i register as a member of the Ubuntu maintainer community???  i cant find anything on the website
[08:58] <|trey|> bwlang: I know what a seg fault is... I meant it doesn't enlighten me as to how to fix it... its official java... not much you can do  :/
[08:59] <LeeColleton> Treenaks: so we can be rounded up and arrested more easily?
[08:59] <|trey|> nux: on the site, under community >> participate
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> because we are all subverting the common good
[09:00] <LeeColleton> Freelance Subversion
[09:00] <jblack> Darnit. I can't get my printer to work.
[09:00] <|trey|> nux: also maintainers in the same list you found participate
[09:00] <LeeColleton> jblack: is it at least collecting unemployment?
[09:00] <jblack> Works fine on another machine with magicfilter, but doesn't work with cups on ubuntu.
[09:00] <jblack> leecolleton: Nope.
[09:00] <LeeColleton> jblack: throw the bum out!
[09:00] <jblack> but if I don't get it to work, then I might.
[09:01] <bwlang> jblack: what happens...
[09:01] <LeeColleton> jblack: ...when you run Computer > System Configuration > Printing
[09:02] <jblack> D [04/Oct/2004:03:02:22 -0400]  [Job 10]  Process dying with "The renderer command line
[09:02] <jblack>  returned an unrecognized error code 255.", exit stat: 1
[09:03] <LeeColleton> jblack: what kind of printer is it?
[09:03] <jblack> Lee, actually, I'm not using gnome. But the same should still hold because cups is involved.
[09:03] <jblack> lee: Its an epson stylus color 820. Its worked with magicfilter and lprng for ages on another machine.
[09:03] <topyli> jblack: why not use magicfilter and lprng then?
[09:03] <bwlang> jblack: are you printing from windows?
[09:03] <jblack> D [04/Oct/2004:03:02:22 -0400]  [Job 10]  renderer command:
[09:03] <jblack> D [04/Oct/2004:03:02:22 -0400]  [Job 10]  renderer return value: 255
[09:04] <Treenaks> jblack: maybe you're missing a program magicfilter requires?
[09:04] <jblack> topyli: Because that machine is in the basement. I'd like the printer here with this machine. :)
[09:04] <Treenaks> (ghostscript, for example)
[09:04] <toolchest> alright, just trying out ubuntu... where's modconf???
[09:04] <jblack> treenaks: No. It works fine with magicfilter on the old machine. On this machine, which has ubuntu on it, printing no go.
[09:04] <Treenaks> toolchest: you don't need it, everything is loaded/detected automgically
[09:04] <Treenaks> toolchest: otherwise, edit /etc/modules manually
[09:04] <topyli> jblack: so? use lprng on the ubuntu box too
[09:05] <jblack> Well, Mark told me that cups was great, so I'm trying to get it to work. :)
[09:05] <toolchest> Treenaks: ok.
[09:05] <topyli> jblack: doesn't seem so great though does it?
[09:06] <topyli> jblack: i tried cups too, now i'm running lpr :)
[09:06] <bwlang> jblack: i know cups works with your printer... - how is your printer connected?
[09:06] <jblack> bwlang: I've tried two ways, one through a parallel cable hooked up to a docking stations (which seems to be a usb device) and via a usb cable.
[09:07] <bwlang> try this to be sure that your computer is recognizing the printer... unplug the usb cable and plug it back in.
[09:08] <bwlang> jblack: then run 'dmesg' from a command prompt... you should see something about the printer in the last couple of lines
[09:08] <jblack> Yes. when I remove the computer from the docking station, /dev/lp0 and /dev/lp1 disapear, and when I plug it back in, they show back up
[09:09] <jblack> Here's one:
[09:09] <jblack> usb 7-1: new full speed USB device using address 3
[09:09] <jblack> drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: usblp0: USB Bidirectional printer dev 3 if 0 alt 1 proto 2
[09:09] <jblack>  vid 0x067B pid 0x2305
[09:09] <jblack> and here's the other:
[09:09] <jblack> usb 4-4.1: new full speed USB device using address 12
[09:09] <jblack> drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: usblp0: USB Bidirectional printer dev 12 if 0 alt 0 proto
[09:09] <jblack> 2 vid 0x04B8 pid 0x0005
[09:09] <bwlang> jblack: okay so remember usblp0
[09:09] <bwlang> go to this web page  http://localhost:631/
[09:09] <|trey|> jblack: the removal and appearance of the printer is normal via sysfs/udev
[09:09] <jblack> You mean /dev/usb/lp0 and /dev/usb/lp1 ?
[09:10] <jblack> bwlang: Ok. I'm there
[09:10] <bwlang> jblack: go to the manage printers link...
[09:11] <jblack> Ok. I'm there.
[09:11] <bwlang> jblack: then click on modify button for your pinter
[09:11] <jblack> It says the device URI is usb://EPSON/Stylus%20Photo%20820
[09:11] <jblack> and it says the printer state is idle and accepting jobs
[09:12] <bwlang> jblack: you should get a page with a name... just conitnue..
[09:12] <jblack> Actually, when I clicked on "manage printers" It took me to a page showing epson.
[09:12] <jblack> regarding continue, I don't see a continue button
[09:12] <jblack> I can print a test page, reject jobs, modify printer, etc.
[09:13] <bwlang> jblack: i'm about to lose my battery power ... jblack: then click on modify button for your pinter
[09:13] <soleblaze> is there a package for the kernel source used with ubuntu?
[09:13] <jblack> wants a username and password.
[09:14] <bwlang> somebodyl else will have to take over... use your username and password... i'm outtta juice
[09:14] <bwlang> good luck
[09:14] <jblack> thanks
[09:14] <jedi> is this the official home of the ubuntu live cd?: http://people.no-name-yet.com/~mdz/ubuntu-live/current/
[09:15] <|trey|> jedi: mdz is usually here... I don't think thats an official part of ubuntu yet...
[09:15] <LeeColleton> jedi: you mean http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/ubuntu-live/current/ ?
[09:15] <Mithrandir> jedi: it's not official as it is fairly outdated; we'll be having an official livecd at some point
[09:16] <jedi> ok thanks all!
[09:17] <|trey|> speak of the devil  :)
[09:18] <LeeColleton> might the acpi interface be fixed to support the IBM thinkpad X30?  I'm getting really tired of shutting down my laptop whenever I move it.
[09:18] <jedi> hehe
[09:18] <|trey|> mdz: jedi here is wondering about the ubuntu livecd  :)
[09:18] <LeeColleton> I've tried booting with acpi=off and loading the apm module but the machine hangs with a black screen on resume
[09:19] <mdz> |trey|: we have a new live CD release which should go up today
[09:19] <jblack> Hmmm. I wonder if having cupsys-driver-gimpprint would help
[09:19] <mdz> v5
[09:19] <|trey|> mdz: yay  :)
[09:19] <jedi> awesome!
[09:19] <clee> mdz: so when are the shipit CDs going out? :)
[09:19] <mdz> clee: once we have a final release to put on them :-)
[09:19] <clee> mdz: so... tomorrow? :)
[09:20] <mdz> clee: 13 October
[09:20] <mdz> is the target
[09:20] <clee> mdz: dude, sweet.
[09:20] <LeeColleton> mdz: great!  That's just in time for the NWSocialForum
[09:21] <|trey|> LeeColleton: makes sense, a lot of things will probably get better set up at release time... right now its a very young project  :)
[09:22] <LeeColleton> |trey|: http://planet.ubuntulinux.org/
[09:23] <Treenaks> |trey|: "fedorazine" sounds like some kind of medication
[09:23] <|trey|> Treenaks: heh... www.fedorazine.com
[09:23] <|trey|> LeeColleton: thanks  :)  still not really the same, but I enjoy reading planets  :)
[09:24] <joem> eww, that site has way to much going on
[09:24] <joem> makes my eyes bleed
[09:24] <|trey|> joem: heh... just saying the stuff on the right  :)
[09:24] <|trey|> the left is kinda busy though  :/
[09:25] <tvon> tis a bit much...the double-left-column thing only really works well when they are very cleanly done
[09:26] <bob2> LeeColleton: is suspend under linux known to work on your on your laptop?
[09:27] <soleblaze> hey what do i need to put in the source.list file for the archive.debian.com mirror?
[09:27] <bob2> soleblaze: you mean ubuntu?
[09:27] <tvon> soleblaze: not a good idea unless you really know what you are doing...buuuuuut:
[09:27] <bob2> soleblaze: uncomment the lines for universe that are there.
[09:27] <tvon> #deb     http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free
[09:28] <soleblaze> i'm trying to get this working via a diskless setup
[09:28] <mdz> |trey|: we have Ubuntu Traffic for that
[09:28] <soleblaze> and i'm working on it inbetween the first and second install part.. and it didn't have source.list setup
[09:28] <soleblaze> i gota friend to send me it..thanks
[09:29] <jblack> whoo. I got print
[09:29] <tvon> ignore what I pasted then
[09:29] <LeeColleton> bob2: yes.  It's worked with Redhat and Debian for the past two years
[09:29] <tvon> soleblaze: http://paste.plone.org/1618
[09:29] <bob2> LeeColleton: fil a bug on the linux-image package
[09:29] <LeeColleton> Never got it to work with acpi but apm has been fine
[09:30] <kremlyn> Wow the take-up for ubuntu is phenomenal.
[09:30] <tvon> kremlyn: it took Gentoo 3 slashdottings to get this many people into IRC :-D
[09:31] <kremlyn> I wonder if ubuntu will ever compete with Fedora
[09:31] <bob2> it already competes with Fedora
[09:31] <kremlyn> It's got a much better base to start with ;-)
[09:32] <soleblaze> diskless is a major pita to setup
[09:36] <|trey|> grrr @ java still... we really need a package in universe that doesn't suck... I'm on my 4th or 5th different external source, and I'm about to start shooting people  :'(
[09:37] <|trey|> All doing the same thing... I don't get it  :(  maybe is yahoo's fault, but it works like 1/30 tries... odd  :(
[09:38] <fabbione> |trey| java packages that i use: deb http://jrfonseca.dyndns.org/debian ./
[09:38] <jblack> Ok. Got it working.
[09:39] <LeeColleton> right.  apm does horrible things to my laptop.  several bug reports are filed on this matter already.
[09:40] <|trey|> fabbione: trying, need to symlink with that?
[09:41] <fabbione> |trey|: works out of the box for me
[09:42] <|trey|> ps, someone kick the servers, getting less then 100kb/s  :(
[09:42] <fabbione> of coruse you will have to restart mozilla & co. to recongnize the new plugin
[09:42] <El_Che> big channel and only beta out :)
[09:42] <|trey|> fabbione: k, thanks, firefox?
[09:42] <fabbione> but that's it
[09:42] <fabbione> |trey|: dunno for firefox. i use mozilla
[09:42] <fabbione> (the full version)
[09:42] <y0ann> i get a big kernel crash installing with 2 network card
[09:43] <|trey|> fabbione: ahh, ok, then probably... ouch @ mozilla though... that thing hates me  :(
[09:43] <El_Che> I am to by an wireless router and wireless pcmcia network card. Any tips of something well supported in ubuntu/linux?
[09:43] <jblack> apparently I was missing a package or two.
[09:44] <bob2> El_Che: orinoco shipsets still seem to be the best supported
[09:44] <|trey|> fabbione: ahh, for future reference, it does indeed provide plugin for firefox also, fingers crossed as to whether it works though  :)
[09:44] <El_Che> bob2: have a look at that, thx
[09:44] <|trey|> fabbione: nope, same thing  :/
[09:45] <|trey|> fabbione: care to try games.yahoo.com/pl real fast for me?
[09:45] <|trey|> Click on a table, tell me if it works
[09:46] <|trey|> Hmm, its saying the plugin isn't there  :/
[09:48] <fabbione> |trey|: seems to work ok here
[09:48] <ronaldraygun> how would one go about installing ubuntu to a laptop with no cd-rom drive?
[09:48] <bob2> ronaldraygun: can it boot using PXE or netboot or something?
[09:48] <ronaldraygun> no pxe, and i'm not even sure what netboot is
[09:49] <ronaldraygun> i tried doing something with debian but it won't boot the floppies i write from the img files
[09:49] <bob2> how old is it?
[09:49] <ronaldraygun> i'm not sure if it's my img writer or the computer
[09:49] <ronaldraygun> 7 years old
[09:49] <|trey|> fabbione: grr... still nothing here... this is annoying... each plugin has worked on other sites  :/
[09:49] <bob2> that would be pretty slow at running gome...
[09:49] <bob2> er, gnome...
[09:50] <aspro> okay ive narrowed my problem down, how can i change the sound device that ALSA uses by default?
[09:50] <ronaldraygun> i'm not interested in a gui
[09:50] <ronaldraygun> all i really need is network capabilities and mplayer
[09:50] <kremlyn> Then install debian :-)
[09:50] <ronaldraygun> yes, well, seeing as i can't get the floppies to boot
[09:50] <kremlyn> Weird..
[09:50] <ronaldraygun> and fedora won't fit on floppies
[09:51] <kremlyn> If you aren't interested in a GUI, don't use Fedora
[09:51] <bob2> if it can't boot floppies, or network and has no cd...
[09:51] <ronaldraygun> i don't know about the network
[09:51] <bob2> check if you're making the floppise correctly
[09:51] <ronaldraygun> it's a pcmcia network card that i've got for it, but i haven't got a clue about netboot
[09:52] <ronaldraygun> bob: yeah, i already have.  i'd try it on a different computer but i don't have one handy
[09:52] <bob2> you've checked the md5sums match?
[09:52] <ronaldraygun> how do i do that?
[09:54] <bob2> stick the disk in a machine and run "md5sum /dev/fd0"
[09:57] <ronaldraygun> well it looks like it may be my floppy drive misbehaving because it's giving i/o errors for md5sum
[09:58] <ronaldraygun> this laptop boots the win98 disc fine
[09:59] <ronaldraygun> is it possible to put an iso of the cd on the drive somewhere and install fro mthere?
[10:00] <|trey|> What is the difference between a link that shows up red with black bg, and an aqua link?
[10:01] <|trey|> Other plugins are former, java is latter... could be why its not working?
[10:01] <aspro> hm
[10:02] <ronaldraygun> brb
[10:06] <|trey|> NO one here can tell me the difference?
[10:06] <|trey|> gjaklfdshjkgdsjfdhk
[10:07] <bob2> maybe no one knows?
[10:07] <doko> |trey|: the red one points to nirwana. try ls -lL <symlink>
[10:07] <Titbread> hey channel
[10:08] <Titbread> i'm pretty much a newbie to linux altogether
[10:08] <Titbread> i have a mandrake 9.2 box but i'm waiting for my copy of ubuntu to come in the post
[10:08] <Titbread> i was wondering if I could help out on the development of it - im a graphic designer
[10:08] <|trey|> doko: ahh, thanks
[10:09] <|trey|> grr... I just don't get it... why would java work everywhere but one site... the only site I even download java for  :/
[10:09] <|trey|> 5 or 6 different versions of java, none work on the site I want them to  :/
[10:09] <bob2> |trey|: what file had a red symlink?
[10:10] <|trey|> bob2: flash plugins... not important right now, I guess I'll reinstall flashplayer-mozilla tomorrow or something  :/
[10:10] <cypher1001> hey channel, just installed ubuntu :), i installed kernel source throught synaptic, but it's not int /usr/src/2.6.x.x ?? where can i find kernel source? pls?
[10:11] <Treenaks> cypher1001: dpkg -L <package name> to see what's in a package
[10:11] <Treenaks> cypher1001: on a command line
[10:11] <bob2> cypher1001: er, are you sure you need it?
[10:12] <bob2> Titbread: I'm sure your offer would be appreciated, try posting to the ubuntu-devel list?
[10:12] <Titbread> im like brand new to linux
[10:12] <Titbread> whats a devel list?
[10:12] <clee> Titbread: a development mailinglist
[10:12] <Titbread> (sorry for my ignorance im sure its anoying)
[10:12] <bob2> Titbread: it's the mailing list where discussions about the developmentof Ubuntu happen
[10:12] <Se7h> YEY
[10:12] <calc> clee: still awake :)
[10:13] <Se7h> Cedega rulz
[10:13] <Titbread> ok how can i use that
[10:13] <Se7h> :D
[10:13] <clee> calc: dude, I don't sleep.
[10:13] <bob2> Titbread:  http://lists.ubuntu.com/
[10:13] <Titbread> right
[10:13] <bob2> Titbread: go and subscribe to it, and then just send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:13] <bob2> Titbread: if you don't want to subscribe, mention thaty in your message so people will CC you
[10:13] <Titbread> and then that sends an email to all the subscripers?
[10:13] <clee> Titbread: yep.
[10:13] <Titbread> CC?
[10:14] <bob2> Titbread: yes.
[10:14] <bob2> Titbread: CC = carbon copy...
[10:14] <Titbread> ohhh right
[10:14] <Titbread> bob2: would you know how i can broadcast internet radio from my linux box?
[10:14] <|trey|> Titbread: look into icecast
[10:14] <bob2> Titbread: icecast, I guess
[10:15] <Titbread> |trey|: Thanks alot mate
[10:15] <|trey|> a lot
[10:15] <Titbread> bob2: Thanks
[10:15] <cypher1001> yes, i need the kernel-source, looks like its in kernel-package? correct..i need to compile kernel module for my wireless nic...i have done this on Suse 9.1, and FC2 where kernel-source is in /usr/src/2.XXX...where is it in ubuntu?
[10:15] <Titbread> |trey|: no need to be pickey on spelling dude ;)
[10:15] <|trey|> Titbread: not having a good night...
[10:15] <Treenaks> cypher1001: are your sure your wireless nic is not supported in Ubuntu ?
[10:16] <Titbread> bob2: I will hopefully be able to produce some better graphics for the linux community -- AND FUCK MICROSOFTS SHITTY OS OVER!!!
[10:16] <bob2> cypher1001: no, it's not
[10:16] <bob2> cypher1001: it's in the linux-source-2.6.8 package
[10:16] <cypher1001> not sure, smc 2635w pcmcia
[10:16] <Titbread> bob2: Check my companies site http://www.retinalnerve.com
[10:16] <bob2> cypher1001: it's probably supported out of the box
[10:16] <Treenaks> cypher1001: that's just prism54 -- and supported natively
[10:16] <|trey|> Titbread: what is shitty about Microsofts software in your eyes?
[10:16] <bob2> cypher1001: if it has Free drivers, at least
[10:16] <Treenaks> cypher1001: otherwise it's atmel-based, and that works too
[10:17] <Treenaks> cypher1001: just plug it in
[10:17] <|trey|> Titbread: and how will graphics overcome this?
[10:17] <Titbread> |trey|: Well I build a new machine, installed it, went online and within 15 minutes my pc starts behaving odly (programs hang, os hangs, lags, its slow)
[10:17] <Titbread> |trey|: People are naive - they think good graphics = good programming, and good software
[10:17] <|trey|> Titbread: good luck with that philosophy  :/
[10:17] <Titbread> |trey|: look at the average user... they think windows xp is better then windows 2000 or 98 just because its got a smoother interface
[10:18] <bob2> |trey|: please stop it.
[10:18] <Titbread> |trey|: If linux is ever going to become what it should, then making it look gorgues is gotta be a benefit
[10:18] <|trey|> bob2: sorry
[10:18] <cypher1001> this smc uses ralink rt2400 chip, i have it working under suse just fine, all i need is kernel source...:) thanks for replys
[10:18] <lypanov> i built a machine with ubuntu linux and my screen doesn't work wireless certainly doesn't work and i've no idea how to use my dvd burner, with linux otoh, all worked :P
[10:18] <lypanov> s/linux/xp/
[10:18] <Titbread> |trey|: I just think ur propaly some geek who's sooo burning up with hate that he doesnt like new ideas and wished everyone would just use comand prompt - but that cant be the way forward
[10:18] <bob2> cypher1001: then it's highly likely ubuntu includes it already
[10:19] <lypanov> Titbread: sure it can
[10:19] <plovs> morning
[10:19] <lypanov> Titbread: just gotta make the command prompt all pretty
[10:19] <cypher1001> yeah, i have the source for rt2400, i just need kernel source...that's all
[10:19] <Treenaks> cypher1001: No, we mean it's highly likely it works with the DEFAULT kernel
[10:19] <Titbread> |trey|: Remember like 70% of the world are dumb as fuck - if u want linux to take over u gotta cater for them 2, and yeh they think something tht looks good - is good
[10:19] <lypanov> cypher1001: apt-get install linux-source-2.6.8-1
[10:20] <plovs> cypher1001, wouldn't kernel headers be enough? or linux-restricted-modules?
[10:20] <Titbread> lypanov: Then retinalnerve.com will make the command prompt look pretty
[10:20] <|trey|> Titbread: dude, stfu, I was asked to stop rebutting you.
[10:20] <Titbread> |trey|: Stfu ur self
[10:20] <Titbread> |trey|: Im only trying to help the community
[10:20] <|trey|> lol such maturity, no seriously
[10:21] <Titbread> |trey|: maturity? lol im 17
[10:21] <lypanov> Titbread: :p
[10:21] <|trey|> Titbread: never would have guessed...
[10:21] <Titbread> |trey|: and i run a web design business - please lets not let this get personal
[10:21] <bob2> |trey|: Titbread please?
[10:21] <joem> guys, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct
[10:21] <Titbread> |trey|: and what are you some 30 year old looser who's fucked about 2 girls in his entire life .. nice one :)
[10:21] <lypanov> anyways
[10:21] <|trey|> 20
[10:21] <Titbread> |trey|: stop being a dick
[10:21] <bob2> Titbread: stop it
[10:21] <crimsun> guys.
[10:21] <Titbread> k i'll stop
[10:21] <crimsun> this need go no further.
[10:21] <lypanov> Titbread: prove yourself :) just make the pics and he'll have nothing to say
[10:22] <bob2> Titbread: please can you remain civil?
[10:22] <clee> lypanov: dude, don't encourage him.
[10:22] <Titbread> not only will i proove myself
[10:22] <lypanov> clee: well if the guys good who cares
[10:22] <steved> Hrm. Is ubuntulinux.org's Documentation Search feature searching search.plone.org for anyone else? :)
[10:22] <Titbread> i'll make linux accessable
[10:22] <cypher1001> apt-get install linux-source-2.6.8*
[10:22] <cypher1001> did the trick
[10:22] <lypanov> cypher1001: yay
[10:22] <|trey|> Soo...     They should be available in synaptic.
[10:30] <clee> lypanov: nice :)
[10:30] <steved> Hmm. tseng's mono repo seems to be....dead. Is there a backup anywhere?
[10:30] <Titbread> naah cant be bothered now
[10:30] <lypanov> is there a ndiswrapper repo btw?
[10:30] <lypanov> self compiling kinda sux :/
[10:30] <dyn> plovs: lol thanks, gotta read other faq too then
[10:30] <dyn> crimsun: let me google on that..
[10:30] <Titbread> for every open minded linux user there's like 50 like |trey|
[10:30] <lypanov> lol
[10:30] <plovs> dyn, it has the marillat repo in it
[10:30] <Titbread> whats the point in helping people who'll just be arrogant
[10:31] <dyn> crimsun: though i still seem to prefer good-ol'-console apt, not synaptic
[10:31] <crimsun> dyn: try the faq as plovs suggested
[10:31] <Titbread> i'll jus keep making money
[10:31] <lypanov> maybe main faq should have a Q: Is there another faq?:  :P
[10:33] <|trey|> plovs: /ignore <user> all
[10:33] <Titbread> not untill he apologises and says he will change his attitude towards newbies trying to help the linux community - its people like him that put me off ever wanting to help
[10:34] <Titbread> |trey|: apologise
[10:34] <plovs> lypanov, i use irssi, but with xchat  on top
[10:34] <steved> ignore Titbread
[10:34] <steved> er
[10:34] <lypanov> hehe
[10:34] <joem> You are preventing help from being given by flooding the chan with garbage nobody needs nor cares to read
[10:34] <Titbread> ok ez
[10:34] <lypanov> someone just go into #freenode
[10:34] <joem> if you have a genuine question, then ask
[10:34] <Titbread> soz
[10:34] <lypanov> find the op's that are available and get him banned
[10:35] <Titbread> soz channel ez
[10:35] <|trey|> lypanov: only bad thing about that... they don't let everyone talk  :/
[10:35] <lypanov> clee: i switched over to darcs btw :)
[10:35] <clee> lypanov: darcs? wtf for?
[10:35] <lypanov> clee: arch sux :)
[10:35] <calc> lypanov: just get him klined ;)
[10:35] <clee> dude, that's even more obscure than tla :)
[10:35] <lypanov> clee: it works :P
[10:35] <lypanov> clee: i didn't have to read any docs, it just worked
[10:36] <lypanov> clee: freaked me out
[10:36] <clee> I'm quite happy with tla so far
[10:36] <Titbread> well cheers for the email an stuff, safe
[10:36] <lypanov> clee: i have a 2gb revlib on my laptop that only has 4gb of space
[10:36] <clee> lypanov: ... so remove some shit from it.
[10:36] <lypanov> clee: i'm not my computers mum. i'm sick of admining stuff that can't just control itself
[10:37] <clee> lypanov: or - god forbid - buy a laptop with a larger-than-4g-hd :)
[10:37] <lypanov> clee: my linux part was tiny
[10:37] <lypanov> clee: oh btw. i'm on ubuntu on my laptop now at last :)
[10:37] <lypanov> clee: no more windoze :>
[10:37] <mkyc-ubuntu> anyone know if there is a citrix ica client as a deb ?
[10:37] <clee> lypanov: congrats. :)
[10:37] <lypanov> clee: shame that default ubuntu is a *bitch* to install on this thing
[10:38] <bob2> mkyc-ubuntu: it's Free Sofwtare?
[10:38] <mkyc-ubuntu> dont know bob2
[10:38] <petemc> there is
[10:38] <petemc> it wont work through a ssl relay though
[10:39] <mkyc-ubuntu> actually i think i may need to do an install of the citrix one for this
[10:39] <mojo> hi all ppl,!
[10:39] <joem> hi mojo
[10:40] <mojo> I feel a bit annoyed about GNOME Ubuntu new menu system
[10:40] <mojo> the Java 2 Webstart was not added to the menu like other distro
[10:40] <azeem> mojo: what's Java 2 Webstart?
[10:40] <|trey|> azeem: java prefs... usually unneeded  :/
[10:40] <clee> mojo: dude, Java 5 is out. ;)
[10:41] <mojo> when u install J2SDK
[10:41] <mojo> they will install the icon on the menu
[10:41] <mojo> yah
[10:41] <mojo> I mean J2SDK 1.50 for 5
[10:41] <clee> god. Sun's naming conventions are so screwed.
[10:41] <dyn> clee: it's not a clear choice for users though
[10:41] <azeem> mojo: does ubuntu support J2SDK? I guess not
[10:41] <dyn> it's about marketing+politics
[10:41] <|trey|> azeem: no
[10:41] <mojo> at least Ubuntu should modify to let Sun Java icon added
[10:41] <dyn> not naming conventions
[10:42] <azeem> mojo: fix Sun Java
[10:42] <mojo> Sun Java installer is generic for all distros
[10:42] <azeem> mojo: I don't think ubuntu has it blacklisted or anything
[10:42] <mojo> b/c Ubuntu is a bit tweaked
[10:42] <mojo> so...
[10:42] <mojo> not turn out like I want
[10:42] <azeem> so Sun Java should be adopted to ubuntu as well
[10:43] <Se7h> dammm
[10:43] <azeem> perhaps you can just edit the .desktop file the Sun Java installer installs?
[10:43] <Se7h> cedega realy owns
[10:43] <mojo> yah
[10:43] <Se7h> does anyone uses it?
[10:43] <|trey|> azeem: easier said then done... you have to get a license from sun to distribute it...
[10:43] <mojo> yeah
[10:43] <azeem> |trey|: oh ;)
[10:43] <mojo> it'd be nice
[10:43] <azeem> then get Sun to fix it...
[10:43] <mojo> if developers give a patch
[10:43] <|trey|> azeem: the only distro with a license that I know of is SUSE...
[10:43] <mojo> when you install Sun Java
[10:44] <mojo> then .desktop file will be added in
[10:44] <mojo> darn...
[10:44] <mojo> some1 must jump in
[10:44] <mojo> and give Ubuntu a hand on doc
[10:45] <Se7h> guess not
[10:45] <Se7h> well u should ;P
[10:45] <mojo> documentation rite now for Ubuntu is quite poor
[10:45] <bob2> mojo: you can help.
[10:45] <plovs> mojo, ubuntu is not even out yet
[10:45] <mojo> I'm really bad at English, I can only program Java
[10:46] <mojo> seems to me
[10:46] <mojo> not many ppl here are German
[10:47] <mojo> Se7h: hey I got cedega runs super well here!
[10:47] <Se7h> mojo :D
[10:47] <Se7h> it rokx man
[10:48] <Se7h> at the first view it seemed to run better than windows
[10:48] <mojo> it runs War3 faster
[10:48] <mojo> dun know y it runs faster
[10:48] <opi^work> re from work
[10:48] <mojo> weird heh? emulation is faster than native
[10:48] <Se7h> eheh
[10:48] <Se7h> well
[10:48] <Se7h> on their homepage
[10:48] <Se7h> ups
[10:49] <joem> its not emulation
[10:49] <Se7h> not there
[10:49] <Se7h> but i red somewhere
[10:49] <plovs> how do i get a list of *all* the bugs in bugzilla?
[10:49] <Se7h> "it runs better in cedega"
[10:49] <mojo> Se7h: u got PointtoPlay?
[10:50] <Se7h> sure
[10:50] <joem> plovs select every possible status and query with no terms
[10:50] <plovs> joem, ok
[10:51] <plovs> joem, duh, that was too easy, time for coffee
[10:51] <joem> heh
[10:53] <opi^work> plovs: oh, coffee.. thanks for reminder ;p
[10:57] <dyn> s/win32codecs/w32codecs/g @ http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
[10:57] <dyn> if someone got the rights to correct the docos on wiki
[11:02] <tof--> is there some mirror for source.list ?
[11:02] <Treenaks> tof--: what do you mean?
[11:02] <opi^work> tof--: like, other FTP hosts with Ubuntu packages?
[11:03] <tof--> yep
[11:03] <bob2> yup.
[11:03] <Mithrandir> tof--: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive
[11:03] <tof-->  http://archive.ubuntu.com is very slow for me
[11:04] <fridge> use a mirror
[11:04] <opi^work> there's a list of mirrors there
[11:04] <mkyc-ubuntu> ok i must be confused
[11:04] <mkyc-ubuntu> how does one 'run' a shell script
[11:05] <aspro> mkyc-ubuntu, sh script.sh
[11:05] <opi^work> mkyc-ubuntu: first line of script
[11:05] <opi^work> mkyc-ubuntu: add #!/bin/myfavshell
[11:05] <mkyc-ubuntu> ahh i see
[11:05] <opi^work> mkyc-ubuntu: then chmod u+x
[11:05] <opi^work> or ue aspro way :)
[11:05] <opi^work> use
[11:06] <aspro> :)
[11:06] <mkyc-ubuntu> aspro ?
[11:06] <mkyc-ubuntu> oh i see
[11:06] <opi^work> his way, aspro way ;P
[11:07] <mkyc-ubuntu> worked like a charm - cheers
[11:08] <mkyc-ubuntu> bah @ citrix and its need to have netscape installed to install the client
[11:09] <mkyc-ubuntu> hope it accepts mozilla as netscape seeing as how it doesnt accept firefox :P
[11:10] <petemc> mkyc-ubuntu: have you tried tsclient?
[11:11] <iMicX> mkyc-ubuntu, which citrix is that? I've never had netscape?
[11:11] <mkyc-ubuntu> yes but doesnt appear to work properly with my full desktop thru csg
[11:11] <mkyc-ubuntu> linux client
[11:11] <petemc> mkyc-ubuntu: citrix secure gateway? good luck with that
[11:11] <mkyc-ubuntu> tell me about it - i support it for a living :(
[11:11] <petemc> mkyc-ubuntu: you'll need to try the java client, and embed the certificate in it, its a royal pita
[11:12] <iMicX> mkyc-ubuntu, I just dl the client from citrix and install it. no problem so far, but no csg either :)
[11:12] <mkyc-ubuntu> so it seems but i have a client who needs to do it on linux.... and work said they can so i have t o work out how :)
[11:13] <petemc> dont waste your time on anything other than the java client tho
[11:13] <mkyc-ubuntu> but its a good thing for me to learn as it means i can move one step closer to linux only here :)
[11:13] <petemc> and you need the java sdk installed on the linux machine, and use keytool to import the cert
[11:13] <mkyc-ubuntu> i may not need to.. thinking about it now..
[11:13] <mkyc-ubuntu> hmm
[11:13] <petemc> keep thinking that :)
[11:14] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol no i mean it may work another way
[11:14] <petemc> i know
[11:14] <mkyc-ubuntu> yes well i can pray :)
[11:14] <petemc> well, it doesnt for me, running nfuse on apache tomcat
[11:15] <iMicX> citrix used to be good, but it's gone to wack
[11:15] <mkyc-ubuntu> well the server isnt here, im just trying to connect to it
[11:16] <iMicX> you'd think their mac and unix clients would be their best, but no, it's windows they concentrate on...
[11:16] <morganc> Can anybody recommend an RSS aggregator on ubuntu?
[11:17] <Zindar> morganc, I use blam
[11:17] <Zindar> morganc, add deb http://www.getsweaaa.com/~tseng/ubuntu/debs ./
[11:17] <iMicX> blam, but I havent done it on ubuntu
[11:17] <mkyc-ubuntu> well iMicX citrix IS designed to run on windows servers so it does sort of make sense i guess in a sad way
[11:17] <morganc> Zindar: Thanks, I'll check it out.
[11:17] <Zindar> blam works great on ubuntu
[11:17] <martyn> hey all
[11:18] <iMicX> mkyc-ubuntu, seur, but it was supposed to be thin client any client
[11:18] <martyn> just installed ubuntu (first time user of a debian type system) - must say - its *superb*
[11:18] <iMicX> bbl teatime
[11:19] <mkyc-ubuntu> i know iMicX but it does work on any client, its just the web stuff with CSG is a bit painfull on some
[11:21] <kremlyn> How can one bring up/down an interface based on the configuration settings in /etc/network/interfaces
[11:21] <kremlyn> Rather than using ifconfig, which requires all the parameters etc.
[11:21] <Hrdwr_BoB> kremlyn: ifup
[11:21] <Hrdwr_BoB> ifdown
[11:21] <Kamion> kremlyn: 'ifup eth0', 'ifdown eth0', and similar.
[11:21] <kremlyn> Ahh ok, and they will check /etc/network/interfaces
[11:22] <Hrdwr_BoB> ps:you suck wang
[11:22] <kremlyn> Thanks people :-)
[11:22] <Hrdwr_BoB> I mean hi :)
[11:22] <kremlyn> heh, y0 Hrdwr_BoB
[11:22] <kremlyn> It was news to me about ifup/ifdown
[11:22] <kremlyn> I thought they were Red Hat things
[11:22] <kremlyn> :-/
[11:22] <Hrdwr_BoB> they are generic now
[11:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> though I have nothing against them
[11:23] <kremlyn> Well they can't be generic, they have to be modified to look at the right underlying script ;-)
[11:23] <azeem> Debian/Ubuntu is not using RedHat's implementation of ifupdown
[11:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> generic commands you tool :P
[11:23] <kremlyn> heh
[11:24] <Treenaks> kremlyn: no, in a general computer mag. :)
[11:25] <kremlyn> Treenaks: Yeah that too :-)
[11:30] <andred> Should it be possible to use Firefox's update feature to apply a security fix, or does that require root priviliges? Trying to use it here fails.
[11:33] <Kamion> andred: no, if anything we should remove that feature from our Firefox.
[11:33] <Kamion> There should be an updated package with the security fix soon, if there isn't already.
[11:33] <Treenaks> there isn't yet
[11:33] <Treenaks> at least, not according to the warty-changes list
[11:33] <kremlyn> What's the security issue?
[11:34] <james_> has there been any talk of an ubuntu forum yet?
[11:34] <andred> Kamion, That's what I'm thinking, we probably shouldn't have Firefox's update thing there if we do our own fixes.
[11:34] <Kamion> james_: lots. there will be one as soon as we figure out how to integrate it with the mailing lists (if we can)
[11:35] <plovs> andred, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1985
[11:36] <lypanov> whats the suggested gnome pdf viewer these days?
[11:36] <andred> plovs:thanks
[11:36] <andred> lypanov, gpdf
[11:36] <subterrific> gpdf if you don't need to print
[11:36] <Zindar> xpdf is default in ubuntu
[11:36] <subterrific> xpdf if you need to print
[11:36] <lypanov> i just want a nice looking interface :P
[11:36] <Zindar> because gpdf can't do some font, searching and print
[11:36] <Zindar> xpdf is also faster
[11:37] <plovs> lypanov, acroread is in universe
[11:37] <clee> acroread doesn't have a "nice interface"
[11:37] <clee> not by a long shot
[11:37] <lypanov> gpdf is cute :)
[11:38] <lypanov> plovs: acroread looks awful :)
[11:38] <lypanov> acroread crashes all the time even on windows
[11:38] <lypanov> its useless
[11:38] <ashgan> hi
[11:38] <tof--> lo
[11:38] <Riddell> isn't universe ment to be all free software?
[11:39] <plovs> lypanov, it doesn't crash here but yes, it looks *awfull*
[11:39] <bob2> Riddell: no, it's nearly all of Debian sid
[11:39] <bob2> which is nearly all of it
[11:40] <lypanov> plovs: haven't crashed it on linux. but a few times when using multiple docs on windows
[11:41] <plovs> lypanov, serves you right, windows! :)
[11:42] <Riddell> so what is multiverse?
[11:43] <andred> bob2, So why the distinct "restricted"?
[11:43] <Kamion> andred: that's a distinction from main, not from universe.
[11:43] <Kamion> Riddell: something that doesn't exist yet, but was being discussed at the last technical board meeting ...
[11:44] <Riddell> ah, ok
[11:45] <nunag> would someone do a ps aux and tell me if the PIDs are contiguous?
[11:45] <Treenaks> nunag: uh?
[11:45] <bob2> nunag: no, they will not be
[11:45] <Zindar> nunag, why would they be
[11:45] <Zindar> ?
[11:45] <bob2> andred: restricted is non-Free driver stuff, afaik
[11:45] <Kamion> we don't do AIX-style randomized pids, mind
[11:46] <nunag> they are on my slackware
[11:46] <maswan> Kamion: Neither does AIX, in my experience.
[11:46] <Treenaks> maswan: openbsd does..
[11:46] <bob2> nunag: only to begin with
[11:46] <lypanov> plovs: i switched to linux on saturday at last
[11:46] <Kamion> they won't be *entirely* contiguous, but they are allocated contiguously
[11:46] <Kamion> maswan: maybe my memory's faulty; I'm sure it did when I used to work with it
[11:46] <nunag> mmm
[11:46] <lypanov> plovs: switched away from linux to windows over 8 months ago now....
[11:46] <clee> lypanov: you mean "back to linux"
[11:46] <lypanov> plovs: its nice to be back :)
[11:47] <lypanov> clee: :P
[11:47] <maswan> ftp-deb@churchill:~> ps | grep grep
[11:47] <maswan>  36062  pts/1  0:00 grep grep
[11:47] <maswan> ftp-deb@churchill:~> ps | grep grep
[11:47] <maswan>  36064  pts/1  0:00 grep grep
[11:47] <Zindar> hi maswan :)
[11:47] <maswan> yeah, seems like a normal unixy system to me
[11:47] <Zindar> maswan, installed ubuntu yet?
[11:48] <maswan> Zindar: Nope, have to try a kernel.org kernel on ravel first to see if there is an upstreams problem or a ubuntu-specific problem with the mpt-fusion driver.
[11:49] <Zindar> maswan, ahh.. alright.. I'm extremly happy with ubuntu...  got 3 ppl running it here at the office now :)
[11:49] <maswan> Kamion: Well, there have been lots of changes since really old AIX, these days it is mostly a fairly normal unix, with a few quirks.
[11:50] <Treenaks> maswan: like most unixen..
[11:50] <Kamion> maswan: maybe I'm thinking OpenBSD then, dunno
[11:50] <Kamion> maswan: bet the linker's still mad :-)
[11:50] <maswan> Kamion: Yes, that's the primary quirk I was thinking of. :)
[11:50] <nunag> OpenBSD randomizes PIDs
[11:51] <nunag> which would seem sensible
[11:51] <maswan> Kamion: I reacted because this isn't the first time I've seen a reference to "AIX-style randomized pids", but I've never actually seen it on AIX. :)
[11:51] <Kamion> maswan: TBH I have no particular inclination to go back to AIX to find out ... :-)
[11:52] <maswan> Zindar: We'll see, I might try it on the new laptop when I get that.
[11:53] <Treenaks> maswan: aix? on a laptop?
[11:53] <maswan> Treenaks: No, ubuntu
[11:55] <plovs> lypanov, yes, using linux feels lijke coming home, using windows is like visiting your rich rather eccentric aunt, who has plenty of stuff you can use, but it will never be *yours*
[11:55] <smeggy> no
[11:55] <smeggy> windows is like visitng your rich aunt with dementure.. who has good days... but on her bad days soils herself often and dribbles.. meaning you need to looka fter her
[11:56] <lypanov> yup :P
[11:56] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol
[11:56] <lypanov> plovs: yup. i'm home now :)
[11:56] <lypanov> plovs: strangely i switched vcs, os, distro (used to be gen2 user), and moved flat all in the same weekend :>
[11:56] <lypanov> plenty of fun
[11:56] <lypanov> but i'm tired and wanna be at home not in work :P
[11:57] <plovs> lypanov, i rather move flat then os's :)
[11:58] <nunag> I switched from Linux to FBSD a couple of years ago, for one reason: the FreeBSD Handbook. Is the documentation getting any better (it used to be 10 year old HOWTOs)?
[11:58] <lypanov> plovs: yer ur on the sane one :P
[11:59] <nunag> yes, I agree, lypanov - but better than I could find in the penguin world
[11:59] <Treenaks> nunag: man, wikis... mailing lists..
[11:59] <lypanov> Treenaks: sorry thats no answer
[12:00] <lypanov> Treenaks: ml's and wiki's are very often incomplete and difficult to find
[12:00] <lypanov> Treenaks: and they are *online*
[12:00] <lypanov> Treenaks: the handbook otoh is installed by default
[12:00] <lypanov> what if you can't get your eth working? :P
[12:01] <Treenaks> lypanov: you read the manual that came with your packaged distribution
[12:01] <lypanov> ml's are also very high latency, and somtimes i need an answer in 5 minutes not two days
[12:01] <Treenaks> lypanov: otherwise, you already know
[12:01] <lypanov> Treenaks: i don't by packaged distros
[12:01] <lypanov> s/by/buy/
[12:01] <lypanov> Treenaks: sorry. what? how can you already know? it differs from distro to distro
[12:01] <nunag> I'm not really a technically adept - just a user. I find I can do stuff (like get an eth card working) easily with BSD
[12:02] <smeggy> BSD makes me happy
[12:02] <smeggy> but the GNU/Linux licensing makes me happier
[12:02] <lypanov> bsd now has better hardware support so i'm pondering switching
[12:02] <lypanov> (ndis is much easier to use)
[12:02] <nunag> I'm thinking of going back to GNU/Linux
[12:03] <smeggy> they really need a better abbreviation
[12:03] <lypanov> nunag: how come?
[12:03] <smeggy> GNUL or something
[12:03] <smeggy> GNU/Linux is a pain to type
[12:03] <smeggy> :P
[12:03] <smeggy> yeah but thats wrong
[12:03] <smeggy> and proper nerds are pedantic
[12:03] <Kamion> nunag: the Debian installation manual is pretty good nowadays; we're in the process of adapting it for Ubuntu
[12:04] <nunag> I like unstable software :)
[12:04] <nate> it's not like it's all GNU though
[12:04] <nate> there's Perl and Apache and BSD stuff as well
[12:04] <lypanov> yup
[12:04] <lypanov> so gnu/linux is just as wrong
[12:05] <lypanov> if not worse as with linux you don't specify
[12:05] <Kamion> the GNU and Linux argument is rarely productive; let's not have it here. We decided to call our distribution simply "Ubuntu" to avoid the whole debate. :-)
[12:05] <nate> The Hideous Bizarre Mutant Operating System Of Which Linux Is A Small But Key Part
[12:05] <lypanov> nate: :P
[12:05] <dyn> oh shit.. anyone knows how to fix the "NTLDR is missing" problem of windows XP after installing ubuntu to an other partition?
[12:05] <smeggy> Kamion, aww but Ubuntu the Happy Smiley Friendly Distribution of GNU/Linux is so much better :P
[12:05] <nunag> Lignux - just tell RMS the g is silent
[12:05] <Kamion> dyn: http://lwn.net/Articles/86835/, perhaps?
[12:05] <lypanov> nunag: lol
[12:06] <dyn> Kamion: let me see.. my gf gonna kill me if i dont solve that until evening :))
[12:06] <dyn> "it's important not to panic" - huh that docs is for me
[12:06] <dyn> ;P
[12:06] <lypanov> hehe
[12:07] <smeggy> any ETA on a forum?
[12:08] <darkersatanic> smeggy: Forum? Ewww. What's wrong with a mailing list?
[12:08] <smeggy> they annoy me :P
[12:09] <dyn> Kamion: still reading, but i wonder how come that you got that url handy immediately? :)
[12:09] <darkersatanic> Heh. Forums send me right up the wall... :)
[12:09] <smeggy> meh
[12:09] <smeggy> I really have nothing against mailing lists
[12:09] <smeggy> Just if you want to attract newbie desktop users
[12:09] <smeggy> you'll need a forum
[12:10] <mkyc-ubuntu> preferably with pr0n
[12:10] <mkyc-ubuntu> newbies like pr0n :)
[12:10] <joem> forums turn into junk so quick
[12:10] <joem> mailing lists are much easier to moderate
[12:12] <Kamion> dyn: bug #1566
[12:12] <Kamion> dyn: may not be the same thing, but it's high on my list at the moment ...
[12:13] <dyn> Kamion: ahh, i see
[12:13] <ForsaKen`> i got a ubuntu mirror, i already transfered all the files, i must rsync evry 6 houers, and i am intersted in building some script that will auto run the like for rsync, could anyone help me ?
[12:13] <dyn> Kamion: fact is, that i HAD run into that installing freebsd the other day to a box, but ended up with reinstalling the whole box, i couldn't find an answer
[12:13] <ForsaKen`> line *
[12:13] <dyn> Kamion: but let's see if i can blow up that box with sfdisk, i'm already close to the end of the docs :)
[12:13] <ashgan> dyn> some hints here: http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm
[12:15] <dyn> ashgan: that last time i just mentioned i tried to fix the issue with the winxp rescue console, but it did not fix anything
[12:15] <dyn> ashgan: so i'm going with sfdisk this time, that lwn article seems sensible and helpful enough
[12:15] <plovs_work> ForsaKen`, the best i could find: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/rsync.xml
[12:17] <ashgan> dyn>did you try a fixboot, instead?
[12:17] <dyn> Kamion: "Warning: partition 1 does not end at a cylinder bounday", sfdisk kindly refuses to set these
[12:17] <dyn> ashgan: i tried that too, no help
[12:17] <dyn> (partition 1 is the windows one)
[12:18] <vertical98> could someone point me to documentation on how to manually install a network driver?
[12:19] <dyn> and the problem is that the old situation *is* correct and the new situation would make partition 1 does not end correctly
[12:20] <dyn> would it help if i could look up the exact geometry of that hdd?
[12:21] <dyn> i know it's an IBM DTLA-307030
[12:25] <dyn> Kamion?
[12:29] <Kamion> dyn: sorry, I'm not sure enough of my ground beyond that
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> HDD Details:
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> Model: DTLA-307030
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> P/N: 07N3929
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> LBA: 60.036.480 Sectors
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> RPM: 7200
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> MLC: F80033
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> CHS: 16383/16/63
[12:31] <dyn> that's what hdparm -I reports of my drive too
[12:32] <dyn> but according to fdisk it's configured to 16 heads, 63 sectors/track, 59560 cylinders
[12:32] <Hrdwr_BoB> that's ... a lot of cylinders
[12:32] <dyn> haha
[12:32] <dyn> appearently, yeah :)
[12:33] <dyn> but i'm afraid (no problems, just mentioning) that ubuntu install changed that
[12:33] <dyn> now i wonder if i set back the original geometry with sfdisk, why partition 1's end would change
[12:33] <dyn> especially as i installed ubuntu on 2 already existing partitions
[12:34] <dyn> so i did NOT delete/create partitions during the install
[12:37] <maswan> Mithrandir: btw, regarding that, did you get around to compile a kernel?
[12:41] <Mithrandir> maswan: oh, sorry. /:
[12:41] <maswan> Mithrandir: I'll do it now then
[12:43] <Mithrandir> maswan: ok
[12:55] <sabdfl> is there any difference between gnome-terminal and multi-gnome-terminal?
[12:56] <mjr> at least some while back multi-gnome-terminal was gnome 1.x stuff
[12:57] <mjr> and since gnome-terminal now has tabs, I don't think multi is very useful anymore
[12:58] <plovs_work> mjr, and if you really  *need* lots of tabs you should be using screen instead
[12:59] <mjr> quite possibly yes
[01:02] <Riddell> t
[01:04] <sabdfl> mjr: thanks
[01:12] <mkyc-ubuntu> really dumb question probably but i will ask : is there an active sync compatible type app for linux?
[01:12] <Baumi> look for syncE
[01:12] <mkyc-ubuntu> oh there is.. cool
[01:12] <mkyc-ubuntu> does it talk to pocketpc ?
[01:14] <lothario> would ppc ubuntu work on a clamshell ibook??
[01:15] <mdz> sabdfl: yeah, multi-gnome-terminal is obsoleted by modern gnome-terminal
[01:16] <Kamion> lothario: if that's the one that our release manager charmingly refers to as the "toilet-seat iBook", then yes, it will
[01:16] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol @ toilet seat
[01:17] <daniels> Kamion: clamshell is white plastic, iirc
[01:17] <Kamion> oh, not the same then
[01:17] <joem> I don't know, it kind of looks like a toilet seat
[01:18] <Kamion> daniels: http://www.macstuff.nl/support/iBook.html suggests it's the same type as Jeff's though
[01:19] <Mithrandir> jdub's the green one.
[01:19] <Kamion> lothario: anyway, all iBooks are NewWorld, so yes, it should work fine
[01:19] <Mithrandir> iirc
[01:19] <lothario> Yay!!
[01:19] <sabdfl> mdz: ok, thanks
[01:20] <aj> daniels: eh? clamshell is coloured plastic; white ibooks are the newer dual-usb versions
[01:22] <dpro> Hey!
[01:22] <dpro> have a little problem.. at some pages mozilla firefox crashes? how can that be
[01:23] <dpro> ?
[01:23] <merriam> what pages?
[01:24] <dpro> like realplayers homepage
[01:24] <dpro> when i press install instrucktions
[01:24] <dpro> and friendup.com
[01:25] <dpro> its pretty annoying
[01:25] <fabbione> Does Luc irc?
[01:25] <Kamion> sounds like a bug you should report (see the topic) ...
[01:25] <dpro> cant i compile my own mozilla firefox?
[01:25] <dpro> cause that would be much cooler
[01:25] <dpro> its pretty slow
[01:25] <Kamion> it's already optimized for Pentium 4
[01:26] <Kamion> you can if it makes you feel better, though :-)
[01:26] <dpro> well.. i have a Transmeta!
[01:27] <dpro> Kamion: i want it to be complied for a Transmeta Crusoe TM5800
[01:27] <dpro> and i want to compile it myself
[01:27] <dpro> well i need to compile a new kernel too
[01:27] <dpro> hmm..
[01:27] <Zindar> dpro, what's stopping you?
[01:28] <dpro> ehm... cant find out how to compile a kernel
[01:28] <spiv> apt-get install kernel-package ; zless /usr/share/doc/kernel-package/README.gz
[01:28] <darkersatanic> dpro: http://www.hantslug.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxHints/KernelBuilding
[01:28] <darkersatanic> dpro: http://www.hantslug.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxHints/KernelCompiling
[01:29] <darkersatanic> May be useful.
[01:29] <dpro> i'll try that
[01:29] <merriam> dpro: processor-specific optimizations rarely make a big difference.  if you really want to compile things like firefox, maybe you want gentoo
[01:30] <darkersatanic> merriam: I'd like to recompile firefox on Ubuntu,
[01:30] <dpro> well i tried gentoo last week, i came so far as to install the bootloader, and then i couldnt figure out how to come further
[01:30] <darkersatanic> but I have a specific problem that I know can be fixed by recompiling eith gcc3.4 :)
[01:30] <merriam> dpro: do you have a url or file that causes firefox to crash?
[01:31] <dpro> 2 sec
[01:32] <dpro> merriam: its a javascript popup
[01:32] <dpro> ahh now i think why its crashing
[01:32] <dpro> maybe i symlinked the wrong libjava file
[01:33] <merriam> things run a lot more smoothly without things like java and real
[01:34] <dpro> i need java and realplayer
[01:34] <dpro> omg!
[01:34] <dpro> thats why im installing it!
[01:35] <HcE> javascript crashes firefox?
[01:35] <HcE> dpro: I made Java 1.4.2_05 work fine with my firefox
[01:35] <dpro> HcE: JRE
[01:35] <HcE> ok
[01:35] <HcE> apt-get JRE or JRE from SUN?
[01:36] <dpro> from sun
[01:37] <HcE> which libjavaplugin did you symlink?
[01:37] <dyn> Kamion: *pheeew* solved the issue
[01:37] <dyn> Kamion: no sfdisk magic helped, but i switched the hdd config in the bios to 'Large' mode, and winxp booted instantly
[01:37] <merriam> dpro: you can compile things with portage without installing a bootloader.  no partitions or rebooting -- run gentoo chrooted under ubuntu
[01:37] <dyn> now lets see if i can still boot ubuntu :)
[01:37] <HcE> dpro: I use i386/ns610-gcc32/libjavaplugin_oji.so
[01:38] <dpro> HcE: /home/username/jre1.5.0/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so
[01:38] <HcE> dpro: oh, I don't use jre1.5, jre1.4.2_05 for me
[01:38] <dyn> i've got the idea from the original mail mentioned the start of the LWN post
[01:39] <mkyc-ubuntu> 5.0 sucks
[01:39] <mkyc-ubuntu> badly
[01:39] <HcE> hehe
[01:39] <merriam> dpro: that way you can easily see how much compiling it yourself helps.  this is to darkersatanic too
[01:40] <darkersatanic> merriam: The recompilation bit for firefox is a known bug with a known fix.
[01:41] <darkersatanic> merriam: I'm running AMD64, and there's a compiler bug in gcc 3.3 that causes FF to be extremely unstable.
[01:41] <merriam> darkersatanic: so there will be a fixed official binary soon?
[01:41] <darkersatanic> Recompiling with gcc 3.4 is known to fix the problem.
[01:41] <Kamion> dyn: ah, good
[01:41] <darkersatanic> I don't know.
[01:42] <darkersatanic> I know that there were some issues with running gcc 3.4 binaries on a system compiled with gcc 3.3,
[01:42] <dyn> Kamion: i think that could be also added to the Ubuntu FAQ or even to Release Notes
[01:42] <merriam> have you tried mozilla.org builds of firefox?
[01:42] <darkersatanic> but it's worth a try, IMO.
[01:42] <darkersatanic> Do mozilla.org do amd64 builds?
[01:42] <mkyc-ubuntu> i sometimes think adobe are the most evil people on earth... and a special place should be reserved in hell for modern PDF's made with acrobat
[01:42] <smeggy> whats that mkyc-ubuntu?
[01:42] <Kamion> dyn: would MUCH rather fix it so it doesn't happen in the first place
[01:43] <Kamion> dyn: I hate documenting workarounds rather than applying fixes
[01:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> smeggy, just sick of the bloared file size of adobe readers
[01:43] <smeggy> heh
[01:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> the ppc one is 9mb
[01:43] <smeggy> yeah I guess
[01:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> i mean come on 9mb
[01:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> sigh
[01:43] <smeggy> still
[01:43] <smeggy> I couldnt live without pdfs :/
[01:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> me neither
[01:44] <smeggy> i'm a bitch to adobe
[01:44] <smeggy> and google
[01:44] <smeggy> :/
[01:44] <mkyc-ubuntu> but i could live without adobe readers.... ahhh xpdf
[01:44] <dyn> Kamion: you're right ofc.. and thanks for your suggestions :)
[01:44] <dyn> time to start work ;)
[01:44] <merriam> darkersatanic: i haven't looked into it.  if they don't, you could try an unofficial build from a mozillazine regular
[01:44] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol time for bed here
[01:44] <darkersatanic> merriam: It doesn't look like they do.
[01:45] <darkersatanic> I'm happy to try the recompilation, TBH.
[01:49] <merriam> darkersatanic: http://www.srijith.net/firefox/
[01:50] <merriam> darkersatanic: if you want to do it yourself, it's best to look at how other people have done it
[01:51] <darkersatanic> Thanks.
[01:52] <Mithrandir> darkersatanic: firefox is stable for me on amd64.
[01:53] <darkersatanic> Mithrandir: I've had it fall over a few times last night.
[01:54] <Mithrandir> darkersatanic: uhm, we _are_ already using gcc 3.4
[01:54] <Mithrandir> for firefox at least.
[01:55] <darkersatanic> Ah. I hadn't appreciated that.
[01:55] <darkersatanic> I saw that the default gcc was 3.3.4, and assumed that everything was built using that.
[01:56] <Mithrandir> all of mozilla is done with 3.4
[01:56] <Juz_visiting> if someone has been using debian sid for their main disro .. do you think they will be satisfied with ubuntu?
[01:56] <Mithrandir> I guess hoary will be done with 3.4 as default on amd64.
[01:56] <darkersatanic> In which case, I shall try to identify a reliable crash and report it.
[01:56] <Mithrandir> darkersatanic: that would be appreciated.
[01:57] <Mithrandir> not that I _like_ to hack mozilla, though..
[01:57] <darkersatanic> :)
[01:57] <darkersatanic> I did have one page which seemed to crash quite reliably.
[01:58] <darkersatanic> It's got some information on it that I'd rather not release to the wide world, though.
[01:58] <Juz_visiting> also is it possible to upgrade to the final warty from the version I'm downloading now? I'm
[01:59] <Mithrandir> darkersatanic: if you can release it to just me, you have my pgp key.  Or, it's in the Debian keyring, at least.
[01:59] <Juz_visiting> hmmm so much for the responcive community I was reading about ........ thanks all
[01:59] <darkersatanic> Mithrandir: Sure. I'll send it to you this evening, when I can access my AMD64 box.
[01:59] <cybernout> oh
[02:00] <Zindar> Juz_visiting: yes it is
[02:00] <cybernout> thats a lot of users
[02:00] <cybernout> :)
[02:00] <cybernout> i am amazed-----
[02:00] <topyli> Zindar: he's gone. patience lasted about 1 min 20 sec :)
[02:01] <Kamion> I sent him a message
[02:01] <cybernout> so who can enlighten me about the sudo and root of the ubuntu system?
[02:01] <cybernout> i treid updating it , but failed
[02:02] <merriam> cybernout: sudo apt-get update
[02:02] <azeem> cybernout: in what way did it fail?
[02:02] <cybernout> in setting an passwd
[02:02] <Kamion> cybernout: what command did you run, and what error message did it produce?
[02:03] <merriam> cybernout: it's the password you logged in with.  if you don't have the password for sudo, you can't have logged in
[02:03] <cybernout> no error just returns and is not changed
[02:03] <cybernout> hmm...
[02:03] <Kamion> cybernout: what command did you run?
[02:03] <cybernout> sudo passwd
[02:03] <cybernout> usual debian way
[02:04] <Kamion> I think you need 'sudo passwd root', but remember that that sets root's password, not the password sudo asks for.
[02:04] <topyli> that's not usual
[02:04] <cybernout> ah
[02:04] <cybernout> i got it
[02:04] <cybernout> its the users name that opens the root
[02:04] <topyli> sudo asks for you password, not roots
[02:05] <topyli> hrmh. your, root's
[02:05] <azeem> if you get an dialog box asking for the root password, that would be a bug
[02:05] <superted> root doesnt have a password on ubuntu
[02:05] <cybernout> okey , lets go over this step by step..
[02:06] <cybernout> if i wanto open an root console - it will prompt for the passwd
[02:06] <cybernout> right?
[02:06] <topyli> no
[02:06] <KnoppixUSER> no?
[02:06] <topyli> you don't want to open a root console
[02:06] <topyli> use sudo
[02:06] <cybernout> why not?
[02:07] <Treenaks> cybernout: you want to run some commands as root. you almost never want a complete root console.
[02:07] <Mayday> what do i apt-get to get the full desktop? i went for base when installing...
[02:07] <Kamion> cybernout: if you want to open a root terminal, it will ask for your password; sudo is set up by default to allow that for the initially-created user.
[02:07] <Kamion> Mayday: aptitude install '~tubuntu-desktop'
[02:07] <topyli> cybernout: if you really really want a root terminal, pick it up from the menu. it will ask for your password, not root's
[02:08] <topyli> Kamion: heh. we agree i guess
[02:08] <cybernout> whats the filosophy behinds this?
[02:08] <Mayday> Kamion: thanks
[02:08] <topyli> not to be root and break stuff by accident
[02:09] <cybernout> hmm, okey, but how secure will it be? any one can do sudo on my system?
[02:09] <Zindar> I think this usage of sudo will be default in most distributions within a few years....
[02:09] <Zindar> cybernout, only you by default
[02:10] <topyli> cybernout: only if they have your username and password
[02:10] <merriam> :)
[02:10] <cybernout> okey, i am starting to get the picture here..
[02:10] <azeem> isn't sudo access controlled by a group? 'adm' or so?
[02:10] <topyli> azeem: /etc/sudoers
[02:10] <Zindar> azeem: cat /etc/sudoers shows you
[02:11] <Zindar> azeem, not in ubuntu by default
[02:11] <azeem> except I don't have ubuntu installed right now :)
[02:11] <azeem> okie, thanks
[02:11] <_mikal> can someone cat their /etc/sudoers for me
[02:11] <_mikal> I did a dist-upgrade from xandros+debian testing
[02:11] <nate> there ought to be a /etc/evildoers
[02:11] <Zindar> Defaults        !lecture,tty_tickets
[02:11] <Zindar> # User privilege specification
[02:11] <Zindar> root    ALL=(ALL) ALL
[02:11] <Zindar> # Added by Ubuntu installer
[02:11] <Zindar> bagfors ALL=(ALL) ALL
[02:11] <_mikal> ok, thanks
[02:12] <_mikal> Then I did it right
[02:12] <topyli> nate: it's aliased to sudoers
[02:12] <topyli> so as not to scare newbies
[02:13] <nate> /etc/evildoers: no such file or directory
[02:13] <Kamion> andrey_: there is a root account, it's just disabled
[02:13] <nate> yippee! The war against Evil is won
[02:13] <topyli> nate: you should file a bug :)
[02:13] <ElBast> hey, has anyone managed to get gdesklets working from universe?
[02:14] <andrey_> Kamion: Thanks for the clarification. I should've stated that I like the setup surrounding the root account... :)
[02:14] <cybernout> is there an ftp site mirror list?
[02:14] <Mithrandir> cybernout: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive
[02:14] <topyli> actually i already nullified the nice ubuntu root thing and enabled root :)
[02:15] <cybernout> thank you
[02:15] <topyli> firestarter and <something i forget> want the root password
[02:15] <Treenaks> topyli: then those programs are b0rken
[02:16] <topyli> Treenaks: no, they are from unstable, not ubuntu
[02:16] <cybernout> any tips on an good program for the bttv tv card?
[02:16] <Zindar> cybernout, xawtv works
[02:16] <Treenaks> topyli: still, they should use an external program to become root, which in ubuntu would do sudo, and in unstable su
[02:16] <Treenaks> topyli: something like that
[02:16] <topyli> Treenaks: yeah, gksu i guess
[02:16] <cybernout> ok
[02:17] <topyli> Treenaks: i may fix it later, because the ubuntu way is better
[02:18] <topyli> Treenaks: all i would need to do is change the menu entry for those to do 'gksu firestarter' etc. Then i can disable root again
[02:18] <Treenaks> topyli: uh, yes..
[02:19] <elFarto> hello everyone
[02:19] <merriam> elFarto: hello.  new to irc?
[02:20] <elFarto> nope
[02:20] <elFarto> new here tho
[02:20] <Celettu> suppose someone liked Ubuntu very much, but doesn't have a lot of experience with either Gnome or Debian, and has some troubles configuring everything, would this be the place to ask? :)
[02:20] <elFarto> i just wanted to give some feedback about ubuntu
[02:20] <topyli> Treenaks: that wouldn't fix ubuntu wrt alien programs in general though, just my installation :)
[02:20] <elFarto> i've just installed it
[02:20] <Treenaks> topyli: if it was packaged differently it might work
[02:20] <merriam> Celettu: yes
[02:20] <maswan> Mithrandir: Ok, hopefully ravel will come up now. :)
[02:21] <Treenaks> topyli: gksu should work on "plain" debian as well
[02:21] <elFarto> i only had 2 problems installing it..
[02:21] <merriam> Celettu: but see the help on the site too
[02:21] <topyli> Celettu: if there ever was such a person, they would probably be well advised to come in a place such as this one