[21:02] <Eickmeyer> Hey youngbin_ ! The IRC ops team are looking into the #ubuntu-kr issue, and the only thing an RT can do is put ubuntulog in the channel for logging purposes. Other than that, it's an IRCC thing.


[06:57] <bddebian> How can I tell for sure that libofx2 conficts and/or replaces libofx1c2 ?
[06:57] <azeem> why should they conflict?
[06:57] <infinity> Or replace, for that matter.
[06:57] <bddebian> azeem: On installing the new gnucash
[06:58] <infinity> ...
[06:58] <azeem> bddebian: so you want libofx1c2 removed when upgrading gnucash?
[06:58] <azeem> bddebian: this should be left to the admin/the APT frontend
[06:58] <infinity> bddebian : If they have different SONAMEs, they shouldn't need to conflict, that's kinda the point.
[06:58] <\sh> guys...TB reschedule meeting @ 20 UTC?
[07:02] <bddebian> azeem / infinity: trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libofx.la', which is also in package libofx1c2
[07:03] <azeem> bddebian: .la files should be in -dev packages, no?
[07:03] <infinity> .la files shouldn't be in the library package.
[07:03] <infinity> (Well, we really shouldn't ship them at all, but if you must, they should be in the -dev package)
[07:03] <bddebian> hmm
[07:03] <azeem> having the -dev libraries conflict is alright
[07:04] <azeem> Thomas Bushnell, BSG is responsible for this Debian package
[07:04] <azeem> bah
[07:04] <infinity> bddebian : So, move the .la to the -dev package, and have the -dev package "Replaces: libofx1c2, libofx1, lobofx1c102" (or whatever packages had that .la file in them)
[07:05] <bddebian> azeem: Aye ;-)
[07:05] <infinity> bddebian : Alternately, just say "screw it, it's wrong, but I refuse to deal with it right now", and have the library package do the replaces, and file a report with Thomas to get his act in gear.
[07:05] <bddebian> Heh, OK
[07:05] <infinity> bddebian : Either way, no need to Conflict, just use Replaces to overwrite the file.
[07:06] <desrt> this is why the archive appears to be offline, i suspect:
[07:07] <desrt> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/06/level3_cogent/
[07:08] <infinity> Damn, makes me wish I was an affected Cogent customer.
[07:08] <desrt> the two places i can't hit it from are on cogent
[07:08] <infinity> A year of free bandwidth, when I don't even want to talk to L3 customers, sounds pretty good.
[07:15] <Amaranth> infinity: you probably have to sign a contract
[07:34] <pitti> Hi mdz
[07:35] <mdz> nothing like a solidly wedged video card to help one wake up with confidence
[07:35] <bddebian> Heh.  Good morning mdz
[07:35] <mdz> thanks to whoever moderated the announcement...I realized when I woke up this morning that I forgot to do it
[07:36] <\sh> guys...u really made my day...the first time in the last months I don't have to tweak the initrd of the installer iso :)
[07:37] <mdz> \sh: tweak the initrd?
[07:37] <\sh> mdz: sk98lin problem
[07:38] <\sh> mdz: before I could install breezy I had to open initrd and include a separate sk98lin driver and put it back into the installer media
[07:43] <mdz> Zomb: thanks for the nasty comments.  I sent the patch upstream ages ago.
[07:45] <bddebian> Doh
[07:46] <\sh> bddebian: conflicts/replaces i think is a good idea for libofx2
[07:46] <bddebian> \sh: Or I should probably fix it correctly as infinity pointed out..
[07:46] <\sh> bddebian: yes this would be better
[07:47] <infinity> \sh : No need to conflict for a file overwrite.  Just replaces.  Please.
[07:47] <Zomb> mdz: does not change the fact that it has been broken in Debian for months, fixed in Ubuntu for months, and nobody did know about that except of the few Ubuntu developers. And upstream does not care unless some bug hits him directly.
[07:47] <infinity> \sh : There's no reason why two libraries with different SONAMEs should ever have to conflict.
[07:48] <mdz> Zomb: that is no excuse
[07:48] <\sh> because of the .la?
[07:48] <mdz> Zomb: you asked me for help, I answered your questions gladly, and you responded with rudeness in your changelog
[07:49] <infinity> \sh : What about it?... That doesn't make the packages conflict, just means the new one needs to overwrite the file in the old one.  That's what "Replaces" does.
[07:49] <\sh> infinity: *bang* yes
[07:49] <infinity> \sh : Again, two packages that have libraries with different SONAMEs should (almost) never conflict.  If they do, you break smooth transitions, locally-compiled packages, etc.
[07:49] <Lathiat> infinity: i think you need to write a guide on this stuff :)
[07:50] <bddebian> Oh, hehe, libofx2 does have Replaces but the -dev doesnt
[07:50] <infinity> Lathiat : It's called Debian Policy. :)
[07:50] <Lathiat> with easy steps for diagnosing what you need to do :)
[07:50] <bddebian> Weird
[07:50] <spayne> doko: ping
[07:50] <Lathiat> heh
[07:50] <\sh> bddebian: not in your package
[07:50] <bddebian> \sh: I just re-pulled the source
[07:51] <bddebian> Package: libofx2
[07:51] <bddebian> Architecture: any
[07:51] <bddebian> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
[07:51] <bddebian> Replaces: libofx1c2
[07:51] <Zomb> mdz: fine, see it as you wish. IMO "rude" is a bit different.
[07:51] <\sh> bddebian: from whom?
[07:51] <bddebian> \sh: apt-get source libofx
[07:51] <\sh> bddebian: in debian libofx.diff.gz there is nothing to see
[07:52] <infinity> bddebian : That should probably be a longer list (1, 1c2, 1c102), I'm betting the .la file has been there forever.
[07:52] <mdz> Zomb: I took time to talk with you about it even though we were in the middle of preparing a release.  The least that you could do was to be civil.
[07:52] <doko> spayne: pong
[07:52] <infinity> bddebian : And yes, I see no Replaces on the libofx2 package in the archive.
[07:52] <\sh> +Package: libofx2
[07:52] <\sh> +Architecture: any
[07:52] <spayne> doko: when i go to change the icon theme in OOo2, there are no options
[07:52] <\sh> +Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
[07:52] <\sh> this is the diff from debian
[07:53] <spayne> doko: so i can't change it to the standard one - is this a known bug?
[07:53] <bddebian> Well it's there.. WTF???
[07:53] <mdz> Zomb: if you have a complaint about me in the future, talk to me rather than writing it in a changelog.
[07:53] <zyga> hello
[07:53] <infinity> bddebian : Oh, it's there in -3ubuntu2, which isn't built/uploaded yet.  La la la.
[07:53] <zyga> who build the live cds?
[07:53] <\sh> lol
[07:53] <Lathiat> maswan: about?
[07:53] <infinity> bddebian : My most recently available binary is -3ubuntu1
[07:53] <\sh> my source as well was -3ubuntu1
[07:54] <doko> spayne: you can file an enhancement request, very low priority ...
[07:54] <infinity> bddebian : Anyhow, a -3ubuntu3 that fleshes out that Replaces line would be nice.
[07:54] <spayne> doko: a few versions ago, i could do it
[07:54] <bddebian> Smurf fixed it
[07:54] <spayne> doko: but seems to have disappeared in recent uploads
[07:55] <\sh> hmmm...
[07:55] <Lathiat> maswan: it seems my rsync client has problems dealing with your symlinks
[07:55] <bddebian> But he only added libofx1c2 not libofx1
[07:55] <Lathiat> maswan: e.g. the isos symlink to ../.pool/
[07:56] <Zomb> mdz: hookay, the next issue will go through open mailing lists first... no irc, no changelog comments.
[07:56] <infinity> bddebian : Hrm, probably no need to add libofx1c102, looks like it never was in a stable Debian or Ubuntu release.  But yes, please add libofx1, it's in Sarge at least.
[07:57] <bddebian> Ahh, WTF happened to gnome-launch-box?? :-(
[07:58] <ogra> mdz, the "|| true" solution wont give me the opportunity to notify the user what to do, will it ? (re: ltsp)
[07:58] <mdz> ogra: you mean if they read base-config.log?
[07:59] <ogra> mdz, nope, if i add a debconf notification... i didnt plan to have any echo stuff in a final version, its just to outline the principle
[07:59] <mdz> ogra: it is too late to add debconf templates
[07:59] <ogra> ok
[08:00] <mdz> keep it absolutely dead simple
[08:00] <ogra> so only a "|| true" and a notification in the install notes then... better than the current state at least
[08:01] <mdz> mvo: around?
[08:01] <mvo> mdz: yes
[08:03] <mdz> mvo: never mind, I see you attached the patch in bugzilla
[08:03] <mvo> mdz: which one in particular? gnome-system-tools?
[08:04] <mdz> pitti: is there any possibility for these fontconfig changes to affect non-greek languages?
[08:04] <mdz> mvo: yes
[08:04] <mvo> mdz: I have fixed another crash (on amd64, services-admin). I would like to fix it too
[08:04] <pitti> mdz: in theory yes, since it moves priority of the Asian fonts below mgopen
[08:04] <mvo> mdz: one line fix: G_TYPE_INT -> G_TYPE_POINTER
[08:04] <Kamion> Lathiat: those aren't his symlinks, they're my symlinks
[08:04] <pitti> mdz: but in practice Kamion, ogra, and I checked that Asian fonts work as before
[08:05] <Kamion> Lathiat: there are rsync options to deal with that
[08:05] <Riddell> Kamion: kubuntu amd64 CDs are good, i386 DVD is good
[08:05] <Kamion> pitti: I didn't test this myself; I only quickly eyeballed the diff
[08:05] <Kamion> Riddell: yep, amd64/install working for me
[08:05] <Lathiat> Kamion: oh, what do i have to pass?
[08:05] <pitti> mdz: since mgopen does not provide Asian fonts, it does not "shadow" them
[08:05] <Lathiat> Kamion: unfortunately just using rsync with no flags makes it die
[08:05] <Kamion> ogra: there are Edubuntu CDs and DVDs waiting for you to test if you're going to do a release candidate
[08:05] <Riddell> Kamion: great, can you put them on the server?
[08:05] <Kamion> Lathiat: man rsync, search for 'symlink'
[08:06] <mdz> dholbach: gparted?
[08:06] <Kamion> Riddell: we have many servers :-)
[08:06] <Kamion> Riddell: but I'll assume you meant "please release the Kubuntu RC" and do that ;)
[08:06] <ogra> Kamion, i didnt plan a RC way to much stuff to fix... but i can test the isos indeed
[08:06] <Riddell> Kamion: that'll be the one
[08:06] <mdz> mvo: sounds fine
[08:07] <dholbach> mdz: it's a couple of fixes from cvs, upstream advised me to get in
[08:07] <mdz> dholbach: we're post-RC; we need to be very cautious
[08:09] <dholbach> mdz: the changes all made sense and were reported either in out BTSs or in gnome's one, but if you want me to do a patch for more clearity, i can do so
[08:09] <dholbach> mdz: a cherrypicked patch
[08:09] <mdz> pitti: so mgopen contains only greek glyphs?
[08:09] <Riddell> do uploads still have to be vetted by mdz or Kamion?
[08:09] <mdz> Riddell: all uploads still require manual approval, through the final release
[08:09] <Riddell> mdz: ok
[08:10] <mdz> Riddell: you don't need to ask in advance if it's obvious and safe
[08:11] <mdz> pitti: there are many more speakers of asian languages than greek; we don't want to cause problems for them ;-)
[08:11] <pitti> mdz: mgopen probably also contains latin glyphs, but we have higher priority fonts for them
[08:11] <pitti> mdz: right, I checked Japanese and Chinese, and mgopen does not contain *any* asian glyphs
[08:12] <mdz> pitti: ok, thanks
[08:12] <pitti> mdz: I compared a Japanese and CHinese desktop without and with the patch
[08:12] <pitti> mdz: I didn't see any difference in terms of glyphs
[08:14] <pitti> mdz: btw, would it be possible for uploads to only appear at b-changes after they are actually accepted?
[08:15] <pitti> mdz: in the case of a rejected upload the mail cannot be undone...
[08:15] <mdz> pitti: that's an elmo question, but I suspect it isn't worth the effort
[08:15] <mdz> this is a temporary hack for breezy
[08:15] <pitti> mdz: propably depends on the number of uploads that are actually rejected
[08:16] <Kamion> pitti: UNACCEPTing stuff is nasty anyway
[08:16] <mdz> pitti: they can't be rejected because they've already been accepted
[08:16] <mdz> I don't expect to reject anything
[08:16] <pitti> ok
[08:16] <mdz> only hold things until after release
[08:16] <Kamion> pitti: we don't reject stuff generally, we either ignore them or get people to supersede them with different uploads that resolve problems
[08:16] <Kamion> (e.g. bash)
[08:21] <bddebian> infinity: Did kmymoney2 ubuntu2 come through?  It's been a while since changes got accepted and it's not showing up on lamonts site
[08:22] <mvo> mdz: gnome-system-tools uploaded with a amd64 crash fix for services-admin
[08:23] <fabbione> mvo: is that ubuntu9 or ubuntu10?
[08:24] <mvo> fabbione: ubuntu10 is the updated one, ubuntu9 fixes another amd64 crash
[08:25] <mdz> jbailey: ping
[08:26] <fabbione> mvo: thanks
[08:26] <fabbione> mvo: i mean.. thanks for making my life impossible ;) i am trying to build get the last 2 pkgs built for sparc to have RC CDs :P
[08:27] <fabbione> super itaglish++
[08:27] <bddebian> infinity: Never mind :-)
[08:27] <fabbione> but you get the point :P
[08:28] <mvo> fabbione: is the sparc a 64 bit arch? if so, you probably need ubuntu10 :)
[08:29] <fabbione> mvo: yes it's a 64 bit kernel arch, but userland is 32
[08:30] <mvo> fabbione: can I help you in some way? send you the ubuntu10 packages or something?
[08:31] <fabbione> mvo: nah.. don't worry.. just stop fixing bugs :)
[08:32] <mvo> fabbione: heh :) ok
[08:33] <mdz> lamont: did you or infinity flush the amd64 cloop?
[08:33] <mdz> ogra: is 16726 actually a bug, or just sabdfl's screensaver selection?
[08:34] <spayne> doko: i've took a screenshot (http://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/OOo2-NoIcon.png) and it looks like there is a fault with the actual chaning of icon themes as the correct .zip files are present
[08:34] <ogra> mdz, i'll have to look at it...
[08:35] <ogra> mdz, normally rss-glx shoud add the screensavers in postinst to /etc/X11/app-defaults
[08:35] <ogra> i didnt change a thing on this package except settin the default volume for skyrocket to zero during this release cycle
[08:37] <spayne> doko: this feature works fine on Debian and SUSE
[08:39] <Kamion> mdz: I believe lamont did it a week or so back
[08:39] <bddebian> Where is the "missing" stuff on people.u.c/~cjwatson   ??
[08:39] <Kamion> ogra: not that I'm complaining about having less to do, but it must be nice to have a choice about whether to do an RC ;-)
[08:39] <Kamion> bddebian: eh?
[08:40] <jbailey> mdz: pong
[08:40] <bddebian> Kamion: Doesn't he have a page that shows "missing" stuff. (I.E. NEW) ?
[08:40] <Kamion> bddebian: dude, *I* am cjwatson
[08:40] <mdz> ogra: it doesn't have a postinst and I see no mention of it being removed
[08:40] <bddebian> Kamion: The reason that I ask is that I still don't see the libaqbanking 1.5.99... binary stuff yet?
[08:41] <Kamion> and no, I do not have anything that monitors the state of the NEW queue. The closest I have to what you might be thinking of is http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/, which is main-only
[08:41] <ogra> Kamion, the current image is lacking fixes... i dont see that it should be a RC before these are in... since it will take time i think a RC before release doesnt make sense
[08:41] <bddebian> Kamion: Oohhh *red face*
[08:41] <mdz> ogra: don't waste time on it; it isn't a regression
[08:41] <mdz> ogra: the package didn't have a postinst in hoary either
[08:41] <ogra> mdz, i didnt say i removed a postinst... and except me nobody touched it... give me time to look at it
[08:41] <ogra> mdz, exactly...
[08:42] <Kamion> ogra: I hope you realise that you can only get a very, very limited class of fixes into the archive from now on
[08:42] <ogra> Kamion, yes i'm discussing with mdz since yesterday for my most critical one...
[08:42] <Kamion> you will have to cut your losses at some point; better do it at a point when the problems are well-understood
[08:43] <bddebian> Kamion: Is the libaqbanking-libgwenhwfar-plugin still hung up in NEW ?
[08:43] <Kamion> bddebian: YES
[08:44] <bddebian> Oh :-(
[08:44] <bddebian> Why the caps?  How would I know that?
[08:44] <Kamion> NEW processing is not instant, nor will it be; I've been processing it since your last question about it a whole three minutes ago
[08:44] <bddebian> Kamion: I thought you did it this morning, sorry.
[08:44] <Kamion> sorry to be tetchy, but I mean, really
[08:44] <ogra> Kamion, yes, but this one was a installation blocker it needed fixage
[08:45] <Kamion> ogra: in universe
[08:45] <Kamion> I am also busy dealing with the Kubuntu release
[08:45] <mdz> Kamion: he's talking about edubuntu
[08:45] <Kamion> ah
[08:45] <Kamion> fair enough
[08:45] <mdz> bddebian: coincidentally, I was just processing queue/new while you were nagging :-P
[08:45] <ogra> Kamion, err you meant MOTU ?
[08:45] <bddebian> I'm not trying to NAG.. Sheesh :-(
[08:45] <ogra> heh
[08:46] <ivoks> calm down guys... you are doing great stuff...
[08:46] <bddebian> Is there any chance of getting someone appointed later on to handle Universe specific stuff so we don't have to bug you main guys?  Kind of a laison or something?
[08:46] <Kamion> mdz: um ... you can't do universe NEWs like that
[08:46] <Kamion> there is an obscure and undocumented process :-/
[08:47] <mdz> Kamion: I thought the process was "just do it and then move it later"
[08:47] <Kamion> oh, well, I guess you can
[08:47] <mdz> that's what elmo recommended to me
[08:47] <Kamion> there's a new_universe program in katie's path
[08:47] <Kamion> you add the output to the overrides using natalie, and then move everything back into queue/unchecked/
[08:48] <Kamion> then it goes straight into universe
[08:48] <Kamion> bddebian: ultimately it'll all be in Launchpad; any processes we define now will change anyway ...
[08:50] <Kamion> mdz: I had to ask elmo a couple of times how he did it before he told me that method; for some reason he seems to believe it's a bit of a hack ;-)
[08:50] <bddebian> Kamion: I didn't mean immediately obviously, just thinking out loud.
[08:51] <Kamion> bddebian: ok - release day is not the best time for all of us, really :-)
[08:51] <ivoks> :)
[08:51] <ivoks> as i said... calm down :)
[08:51] <bddebian> Kamion: I know sorry.  I have goals too ya know.. ;-P
[08:53] <Kamion> bddebian: I know, no problem. I did try to do a universe version of http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/ a while back, since it's been on my to-do list for some time and I know it'd be helpful - but it took longer than the cron.daily cycle to generate
[08:53] <Kamion> so I need to get it going on some other machine with a full mirror, probably rookery itself (i.e. people)
[08:53] <Kamion> takes a shedload of memory though
[08:54] <bddebian> I can imagine
[08:54] <ogra> mdz, there is a mechanism in xscreensaver (thom added it i think) to prevent GL screensaver to be run in software rendering mode... i guess thats the prob with rss-glx...
[08:54] <infinity> bddebian : No, you probably can't imagine, until you've seen britney in action.
[08:54] <infinity> bddebian : It's twelve kinds of scary.
[08:54] <bddebian> If I stay at this job maybe I'll throw up a mirror
[08:54] <bddebian> infinity: Heh
[08:56] <Kamion> britney used to be ulimited to 900MB of memory in Debian. It overflowed that on a regular basis ...
[08:58] <infinity> (and a fix uploaded)
[09:00] <slomo> infinity: you mean cabal? or something else?
[09:02] <infinity> slomo : No, tipa.  Bad remove/purge conffile handling.
[09:04] <mvo> mdz: is #17172 something that should be fixed for -final?
[09:04] <Kamion> Riddell: Kubuntu release is syncing out to mirrors now; will be a while
[09:04] <Kamion> Riddell: sorry for the delay
[09:05] <jbailey><EMAIL_ADDRESS>2005-10-06 19:53 UTC  Target Milestone  ---  Ubuntu 5.10
[09:05] <jbailey> Is my clock, or the DCs confused?
[09:06] <Riddell> Kamion: no problem, thanks for that
[09:06] <Riddell> Kamion: are the DVDs there as well?
[09:06] <tseng> jbailey: i thought bugzilla was in UK local time for some reason
[09:06] <Kamion> Riddell: yeah
[09:06] <Kamion> tseng: shouldn't be claiming UTC, then :)
[09:07] <Riddell> Kamion: did you or jbailey test the AMD64 DVD?
[09:07] <tseng> this is true.
[09:07] <Kamion> Riddell: I didn't; I don't think jbailey did either
[09:07] <jbailey> 'k,np.  I knew Matt was super-human, but this was a new one to me. ;)
[09:07] <Kamion> but if the Ubuntu DVDs work (which they do) and the Kubuntu amd64/{install,live} CDs work (which they do), then I'm not too worried
[09:08] <infinity> jbailey : bugzilla is in Europe/London, but in certain places claims to be UTC.  Known issue.
[09:09] <jbailey> infinity: Luvly, thx.
[09:10] <mdz> bugzilla calls Europe/London UTC for some reason
[09:11] <lamont> mdz/Kamion: I manually reset the amd64 cloop a bit ago
[09:11] <mdz> lamont: ok
[09:12] <mdz> lamont: depending on how pressed we are for space, we may need to do it again
[09:12] <lamont> but since we hadn't deployed sladen's zero-er earlier, I was unwilling to deploy it post-preview on amd654
[09:12] <mdz> Kamion: have you done a build since all your changes?
[09:12] <lamont> (ia64 has it turned on in the daily script, to give us testing)
[09:13] <lamont> mdz: np.  it's a straightforward run of the python script... the long part is the diff of the entire fs afterwards, just to be pedantic....
[09:13] <lamont> (when I reset it, it was copy, zero, mount both, diff, make sure we're happy, replace.)
[09:13] <Kamion> mdz: not yet, no
[09:14] <lamont> mdz/kamion: and btw, I'll be mostly offline from tomorrow morning until monday evening...
[09:15] <lamont> wait.. this is thursday...  off and on tomorrow, gone sat-am thru mon late evening
[09:21] <grayman> When you install something in synaptic you get that status bar with terminal. The questions is... can i use it in my own application in someway, because i noticed that gnome-app-install uses the same one too
[09:22] <mvo> grayman: yes you can, please join #synaptic for details (I don't want to be too OT in this channel)
[09:22] <grayman> i can? thanks
[09:23] <lamont> mdz: actually, the only one I reset was ubuntu-live... still need to reset the others.
[09:26] <lamont> mdz/kamion: since I know how much you love changes just before release....
[09:27] <lamont> ia64 has been running sladen's zero-er for a couple weeks, with no ill effects... we could consider just turning it on...
[09:30] <jbailey> Anyone able to install pieces in the chroot on concordia?
[09:31] <fabbione> jbailey: i guess both elmo and Znarl can
[09:31] <lamont> mdz: I'll reset all of the amd64 images today sometime, in any case.
[09:31] <lamont> the advantage of deploying the zero-er is that the image then has no wastage, instead of 'just today's wastage'
[09:32] <jbailey> fabbione: YEah, probably not the right timezone for them.
[09:32] <jbailey> Ah well.  /me fires up the test build on a slow local machine.
[09:33] <lamont> fabbione: and pretty much only them.
[09:34] <fabbione> lamont: yeah
[09:43] <mvo> mdz: sorry for pestering you, I wonder if #17172 is something that can/should be fixed for -final (one line fix)?
[09:44] <zyga> mvo: one line fix that fixes an issue is a good fix
[09:44] <mdz> mvo: that's fine
[09:44] <mdz> mvo: remember that you already have 3 existing bugs with 5.10 milestone, though; don't forget about those
[09:45] <mdz> jbailey: did I already ask you about #14456?  something to be concerned about for 5.10, or not?
[09:45] <Kamion> ooh, need a preset query for me + 5.10 milestone
[09:45] <mdz> Kamion: you only have 2 and you are quite aware of them already ;-)
[09:46] <Kamion> yep, just checked
[09:46] <jbailey> mdz: Adding the define would allow us to match the kernel change from the end of September.  Nothing is relying on it, though.
[09:47] <jbailey> mdz: So path of least resistance is 'no', path of completeness is 'yes'.  I don't know inotify well enough to know if anyone would notice if it weren't there.
[09:48] <mdz> jbailey: so the things that use inotify in breezy are  including their own copy of the header?
[09:48] <mvo> mdz: thanks for reminding me :) I'm not sure if #8502 is a "must-fix" for 5.10 and I'm not sure if it is possible to produce a "simple and obvious" fix for this. what do you think?
[09:49] <mdz> mvo: you are the one who set the milestone to 5.10 :-)
[09:49] <mdz> mvo: if it isn't fixed upstream and the fix isn't obvious, let's defer it
[09:49] <jbailey> mdz: The header is there.  There's one define that's missing because the feature wasn't in the kernel when I added the header.  Ben added the feature at the end of September, so most things either include their own header or use this one without the define.
[09:49] <jbailey> mdz: It's not a standard feature in 2.6.12, it's one we added, so I don't think it's high-impact to not have it in.
[09:50] <mvo> mdz: I set that months ago :)
[09:50] <tepsipakki> mdz: #17151, yes the swap is on LVM, sorry for not making that more clear
[09:50] <mdz> jbailey: oh, the patch made it look as if l-k-h wasn't shipping the header at all
[09:51] <bddebian> Hello sabdfl
[09:51] <mdz> tepsipakki: please follow up to Bugzilla so that this information is recorded there
[09:51] <sabdfl> hey bddebian
[09:51] <fabbione> hey sabdfl
[09:51] <sabdfl> mdz: T-8mins, right?
[09:51] <tepsipakki> mdz: sure, just can't do it from here ;)
[09:51] <fabbione> tepsipakki: there is already a bug open for it
[09:52] <jbailey> mdz: Right.  I added it partway, then marked it as upstream, since it wasn't part of 2.6.12.  Ben patched inotify after.
[09:52] <tepsipakki> fabbione: oh?
[09:52] <fabbione> it's a duplicate of another one...
[09:52] <jbailey> mdz: It's literally adding the line: +#define IN_MASK_ADD0x20000000
[09:52] <jbailey> mdz: To the header.
[09:52] <ajmitch_> morning all
[09:52] <jbailey> tepsipakki: What sort of problem are you facing?  I tested resume from lvm swap 2 days ago on my laptop with no problems.
[09:52] <tepsipakki> jbailey: i tested it several times on monday
[09:53] <mdz> sabdfl: er, I never heard back from you or scott
[09:53] <mdz> sabdfl: or claire
[09:53] <sabdfl> ok
[09:53] <tepsipakki> jbailey: I'll test it tomorrow to make sure, and to get the message from boot
[09:53] <jbailey> tepsipakki: First take a look at /etc/mkinitramfs/initramfs.conf.  Is the RESUME= line set?
[09:53] <mdz> so I didn't announce a meeting
[09:53] <sabdfl> i'm here, just :-)
[09:54] <tepsipakki> jbailey: yes
[09:54] <\sh> hmm..who is responsible for the wiki.ubuntu.com?
[09:54] <mdz> jbailey: if that's the only change, then let's get it in
[09:54] <Kamion> mdz: running daily-live builds now, so we'll see how the sizes look. I've re-enabled the cron jobs.
[09:55] <mdz> Kamion: sounds good
[09:55] <Kamion> can't believe we were shipping all those powerpc initrds; I should've checked /install/ earlier :)
[09:56] <jbailey> tepsipakki: 'kay.  I will need you to add the word 'break' to your kernel command line.
[09:56] <tepsipakki> jbailey: sounds cool ;)
[09:56] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Then when you're inside the initramfs-tools, make sure that your RESUME= line is defined in /conf/initramfs.conf
[09:56] <jbailey> tepsipakki: What's the path that's there?
[09:57] <doko> mdz: please accept openoffice.org2-amd64_1.9.129-0.1ubuntu3-0ubuntu3, openoffice.org2-amd64_1.9.129-0.1ubuntu3-0ubuntu2 had too tight deps
[09:57] <mdz> doko: it's already in the archive
[09:57] <tepsipakki> jbailey: in /etc/mkinitramfs/initramfs.conf? /dev/mapper/poo-swap
[09:58] <sabdfl> fabbione: why?
[09:58] <jbailey> tepsipakki: 8-P
[09:58] <jbailey> tepsipakki: 'kay, so when you're in the initramfs, that should trigger it fine.
[09:58] <doko> mdz: thanks, checked some minutes before
[09:58] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Do you have another machine that you can use to IRC from while you're looking at this?
[09:58] <fabbione> sabdfl: never mind.. it's yet another ISP in the middle falling apart
[09:58] <sabdfl> ok
[09:58] <tepsipakki> jbailey: the "break" makes it to boot interactively?
[09:59] <fabbione> never had so many problems recently
[09:59] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Right.  That tells it to give you a shell inside the initramfs
[09:59] <\sh> fabbione: you don't have problems with level3 and cogent?
[09:59] <tepsipakki> jbailey: well, maybe my home installation uses lvm too, don't remember
[09:59] <fabbione> \sh: no.
[10:00] <\sh> but my company has *gnarf* we can't reach parts of romania anymore :(
[10:00] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Well.  If you can remember, set the RESUME variable exactly as you see it in that file.  Then look in scripts/local-premount
[10:00] <mdz> has anyone checked if the torrent tracker is working for RC?
[10:00] <mdz> the status page is giving its usual 'server error'
[10:01] <jbailey> tepsipakki: There's a script in there called 'suspend'
[10:01] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Follow the commands in there by hand, and let me know which one isn't behaving right.
[10:01] <jbailey> tepsipakki: The echo ${major}:${minor} >/sys/power/resume
[10:02] <jbailey> tepsipakki: command shouldn't return.
[10:02] <tepsipakki> jbailey: ok, I'll write these down ;)
[10:02] <bddebian> Heh
[10:03] <mdz> mvo: what can we do about 16678 for 5.10, if anything?
[10:05] <mvo> mdz: I have no idea yet, the strange thing is that it doesn't happen for "de and fr", I was only able to reproduce it for it_IT
[10:05] <mdz> mvo: curious
[10:05] <mvo> mdz: yes
[10:05] <mdz> mvo: so it is supposed to work?
[10:06] <seb128> gdm doesn't detect new locale without beeing restarted
[10:06] <mvo> mdz: seb128 thinks that gdm should be restarted in any case if new locales are generated
[10:06] <seb128> restart = /etc/init.d/gdm restart
[10:07] <fabbione> is there anything that actually detects locales changes when in "daemon" mode?
[10:07] <seb128> mvo: that's my experience with it from before hoary
[10:07] <fabbione> since the daemon inherits the env from the moment in which it's executed
[10:07] <fabbione> seb128: imho NOTABUG
[10:08] <mvo> seb128: curiously it did work for fr and de (see pitts comment too)
[10:08] <jbailey> mvo: Doesn't restarting gdm cause the session to restart?
[10:08] <pitti> fabbione: it's not about the env
[10:08] <fabbione> pitti: it's a dameon..
[10:08] <pitti> fabbione: it's about re-reading "locale -a" when the current session ends
[10:08] <seb128> fabbione: what I said
[10:08] <jbailey> Otherwise it's easy to add to the list.
[10:08] <seb128> jbailey: yep it does
[10:08] <fabbione> pitti: locale -a | wc -l
[10:08] <fabbione> 17
[10:09] <fabbione> pitti: which one should pick than?
[10:09] <pitti> fabbione: all
[10:09] <seb128> fabbione: the issue is
[10:09] <seb128> - run gdm
[10:09] <jbailey> mvo, seb128: Then restarting automatically would be a fairly large mistake, I think.
[10:09] <pitti> fabbione: the problem is not that gdm itself has the wrong locale
[10:09] <seb128> generate a new locale
[10:09] <mvo> jbailey: yes, we can't do that
[10:09] <seb128> pick it from the language menu on login screen
[10:09] <pitti> fabbione: but that it does not offer new locales for the next session
[10:09] <seb128> you get a message saying it's a known language
[10:10] <fabbione> i am with seb128 on this one
[10:10] <pitti> somewhere in the gdm code there must be a function that reads available locales
[10:10] <fabbione> i might temporary add locales for other reasons
[10:10] <fabbione> and i don't want them available on gdm
[10:10] <mvo> the strange thing is that gdm offer the it locale but then complains on login
[10:10] <pitti> fabbione: if there is a locale *after* the session ended, it shuold be available for the next one
[10:10] <mvo> s/it/"it_IT"/
[10:11] <pitti> right
[10:11] <fabbione> pitti:not necessarely
[10:11] <pitti> fabbione: gdm shuold either not offer the new locale at all, or it should work for the next session
[10:11] <pitti> fabbione: so either way you look at it, it's a bug
[10:12] <seb128> pitti: we have it since warty
[10:12] <fabbione> pitti: it's a chicken egg
[10:12] <fabbione> pitti: i would rather leave it as it is
[10:12] <pitti> seb128: sure, I'm not arguing that we must/can fix it for breezy
[10:12] <fabbione> well known behaviours
[10:12] <fabbione> -s
[10:12] <pitti> I'm just confirming that this is broken
[10:12] <seb128> yeah, that's known to be since before hoary :)
[10:12] <seb128> but nobody cared enough to fix it before
[10:12] <seb128> so it can wait after 5.10 now
[10:12] <pitti> so, some locales just have bad luck :-)
[10:13] <fabbione> pitti: who cares about it_IT anyway
[10:13] <fabbione> ;)
[10:13] <mvo> heh :)
[10:13] <sistpoty> is (rescheduled) TB-meeting now?
[10:13] <pitti> fabbione: they should make good spaghettis, not good locales :-)
[10:13] <mvo> and great pizza
[10:13] <mvo> *yum*
[10:14] <fabbione> pitti: that's why i cook and my desktop is in pure english :)
[10:14] <pitti> fabbione: I like your attitude
[10:14] <diamond> is there a known hindi display glitch in the installer? searching bugzilla for 'hindi' shows up nothing. this is a (very bad) photo of the issue: http://diamond.nonado.net/misc/pics/hindi.jpg
[10:14] <diamond> this is from the rc btw
[10:14] <pitti> fabbione: I have a German desktop and don't cook every day
[10:14] <fabbione> pitti: heheh
[10:14] <pitti> diamond: yes, known bug
[10:14] <diamond> pitti: grand, thanks
[10:14] <fabbione> i don't cook everyday either
[10:16] <poningru> did someone say hindi?
[10:16] <Simira> hi fabbione, how are you?
[10:16] <fabbione> hey Simira !
[10:16] <fabbione> Simira: i am fine thanks and you?
[10:16] <poningru> oh
[10:16] <Simira> fabbione: harassing Tollef to get the kitchen done. Have to get things in order for the party on saturday. Moving-in-party
[10:17] <tepsipakki> jbailey: just crossed my mind: would it suffice if I opened up the initrd-img and see what's inside?
[10:17] <fabbione> Simira: hehehe
[10:17] <seb128> mdz: can we drop the gdm Depends on ubuntu-artwork and "desktop" it instead?
[10:17] <jbailey> tepsipakki: that would let you make sure the conffile was updated, but I generally assume it is.
[10:17] <jbailey> tepsipakki: The problem is likely elsewhere.
[10:17] <tepsipakki> jbailey: ok
[10:18] <jbailey> tepsipakki: I include that step for completeness because if it's *not*, we could spend hours troubleshooting a very simply problem. ;)
[10:19] <tepsipakki> jbailey: it's my laptop, but it is online so I can easily take a look
[10:19] <mdz> seb128: I would prefer not to do any seed changes before final.  what bugs would it fix?
[10:20] <mdz> s/seed/desktop or minimal or standard seed/
[10:20] <sabdfl> does anything require the artwork in minimal? usplash?
[10:20] <seb128> mdz: people complaining because they have forced to use the panel logo branding
[10:21] <seb128> mdz: would a panel patch with a gconf key for that been accepted?
[10:21] <jdong> hey, I'm trying to make flashplayer/msttcorefonts style fetcher packages for w32codecs and libdvdcss
[10:22] <jdong> any pointers? ;)
[10:22] <jdong> decided breezy-extras needs to be a bit more legal
[10:22] <mdz> seb128: for kubuntu and edubuntu, or someone else?
[10:23] <mdz> well, not kubuntu obviously
[10:23] <seb128> mdz: for anybody who wants to change the panel logo
[10:23] <mdz> seb128: people who want to run ubuntu but with the gnome foot?
[10:23] <seb128> mdz: let's say GNOME liveCD
[10:23] <mdz> I see
[10:23] <seb128> by example
[10:24] <infinity> jdong : There's no way to make that legal.
[10:24] <seb128> I don't really get why we force the artwork installation
[10:24] <infinity> jdong : The difference is that flash and msttcorefonts are freely available, we're just not allowed to distribute them.
[10:24] <mdz> I thought we added that dep intentionally to solve a problem
[10:24] <seb128> mdz: the workaround are easy, we can keep that the current way for 5.10 if you prefer
[10:24] <jdong> infinity: no; but it shifts the legality from me to the users :)
[10:25] <jdong> infinity: Gentoo's been doing this for ages, and nobody's gone after them
[10:25] <infinity> jdong : w32codecs, on the other hand, is not freely available at all.  The only legal package you could do is one that copies the files from the user's Windows partition.
[10:25] <seb128> mdz: gdm default theme is ubuntu one, I though it was due to that
[10:25] <mdz> seb128: sounds right
[10:25] <mdz> seb128: I really prefer not to change the dep at this late stage
[10:25] <mdz> seb128: what are the workarounds currently? dpkg-divert?
[10:25] <Riddell> Kamion: there's no torrents for the kubuntu install CDs
[10:26] <infinity> jdong : For w32codecs, where would you fetch it FROM?.. In the end, someone's still distributing it illegally, so you may as well just point users at that remote deb, if that's what they really want to do.
[10:26] <fabbione> hmmm
[10:26] <mdz> there is no gconf key etc. to set the panel logo currently?
[10:26] <\sh> jdong: gentoo pulls in the sources from somewhere...it's source...not distributed by gentoo
[10:26] <jdong> infinity, \
[10:26] <fabbione> what did pull libaqbanking into main without the source??
[10:26] <jdong> infinity, \sh: it's from mplayer.hu... the authoritative source of w32codecs :)
[10:26] <seb128> mdz: install a variant of the icon for your the theme you use, or divert it
[10:26] <seb128> s/your//
[10:26] <bddebian> fabbione: How did it go to main??
[10:26] <\sh> jdong: which means, it doesn't distribute the source package
[10:27] <fabbione> mdz: sorry that was for you
[10:27] <jdong> \sh: they're binaries....
[10:27] <\sh> jdong: sure..but you know what I mean
[10:27] <\sh> jdong: the source of distribution is not gentoo :)
[10:28] <jdong> \sh: yeah, but how's that different from what I'm trying to accomplish?
[10:28] <mdz> fabbione: don't panic; new packages go into main by default and then get moved
[10:28] <fabbione> bddebian: how did it go to main without source
[10:28] <infinity> \sh : Yes, that's what he's driving at anyway, with a "fetcher package"... My point is that, no matter where you DL w32codecs from, it's still illegal, so why did you bother to add indirection?
[10:28] <fabbione> mdz: ah ok. wasn't the other way around before?
[10:28] <bddebian> fabbione: It should be Universe??
[10:29] <bddebian> Ohh
[10:29] <jdong> infinity: so the Backports team is free of legal blame
[10:29] <fabbione> bddebian: it's a completely different problem.. i am asking about the source..
[10:29] <seb128> mdz: what do you think about patch from http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17049 ? is that ok to upload ?
[10:29] <mdz> fabbione: did it build?
[10:29] <\sh> infinity: that's the idea of gentoo...they're pointing you to anywhere else...what gentoo is, is only python/bash scripts..nothing else..the rest comes from unknown places...they don't care
[10:29] <mdz> fabbione: I was waiting for the binaries so I could move it
[10:29] <infinity> jdong : Meh.  Fair enough.  If you need/want help with it, post-release, ping/mail me.
[10:29] <fabbione> mdz: it's on my local mirror.. that's why i noticed
[10:30] <jdong> infinity: sure... I'll see if I can modify the msttforeconts source to work in the meantime
[10:30] <jdong> (err, wow I'm dyslexic today)
[10:30] <mdz> seb128: hmm, I don't like it too much; I would rather disable the button honestly
[10:30] <bddebian> fabbione / mdz: You two are confusing me.  What of libaqbanking is in main?  apt-cache madison shows both in Universe here??
[10:30] <infinity> jdong : Make sure the files get installed to the same paths as they are in the current .deb
[10:30] <jdong> yep
[10:30] <mdz> bddebian: all of its binary packages
[10:31] <seb128> mdz: what's wrong about it? (not that I care either way)
[10:31] <mdz> bddebian: and I've just moved tem
[10:31] <bddebian> mdz: OK, gotcha, thx
[10:31] <mdz> seb128: not wrong, just intrusive
[10:32] <mdz> seb128: it's also ok with me to just leave it as-is for 5.10
[10:33] <mdz> hehe, we are in that time of the release when bug reporters start to lobby for their pet bugs to be fixed
[10:33] <Seveas> :)
[10:33] <bddebian> Heh
[10:34] <Seveas> it was not my pet bug (i created the patch) but I just didn't like the security issue disks-admin gives
[10:34] <Seveas> disbling the button would work too, this was just as easy though :)
[10:34] <seb128> mdz: right :)
[10:34] <seb128> Seveas: what security issue?
[10:35] <Seveas> seb128, browsing things as root
[10:35] <Seveas> or running gnome-cd/totem as root
[10:36] <seb128> Seveas: that as secure as running g-s-t tools or gdmsetup or synaptic with sudo imho
[10:37] <Seveas> agreed for totem/gnome-cd, but not for nautilus
[10:39] <fabbione> Kamion, mdz: one of your last ubuntu-meta uploads did kill ubuntu-desktop on sparc..
[10:39] <fabbione> is there any chance to get it fixed?
[10:39] <tepsipakki> jbailey: the initrd-img is fine
[10:39] <Zomb> mdz: again, please take my appologies for the bad sarcasm... and Knopper says he did not receive any fix.
[10:40] <fabbione> mdz:  powermanagement-interface and openoffice.org2* should be removed.. (they were not there, but apparently a refresh did add them back)
[10:40] <jbailey> tepsipakki: 'kay.  So you'll need to step through it and figure out why it's not poking the major:minor in.
[10:40] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Can you look to see what's in /sys/power/resume now?
[10:40] <jbailey> tepsipakki: (Just cat it, it's a plain file)
[10:40] <tepsipakki> jbailey: but the machine is not at my hands currently, so I can check those things tomorrow
[10:41] <tepsipakki> jbailey: or is there something I _can_ do it via ssh?
[10:41] <jbailey> tepsipakki: cat /sys/power/resume can be done now. =)
[10:41] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Let's see if it's actually being set in the first place.
[10:41] <tepsipakki> jbailey: 0:0
[10:41] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Yup, not set. =)
[10:41] <jbailey> tepsipakki: So I definetly need you to walk through that fiel and figure out why it's not being run.
[10:42] <mdz> Zomb: thank you.  if there is an upstream mailing list for cloop, please tell me and i will send patches there instead so that you receive them also
[10:42] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Putting your initramfs somewhere I can download it would help me look quickly for obvious things, too.
[10:42] <Zomb> mdz: Knopper has left LinuxTag and is constructing something on alioth right now
[10:42] <tepsipakki> jbailey: the image you mean?
[10:42] <jbailey> tepsipakki: S=)
[10:43] <ogra> thanks :)
[10:43] <doko> fabbione: could you start on OOo2 test build without java, please?
[10:44] <fabbione> doko: on what arch?
[10:44] <doko> sparc
[10:44] <fabbione> doko: yes in theory
[10:45] <doko> no, I mean in practice
[10:45] <tepsipakki> jbailey: http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/tmp/
[10:45] <fabbione> doko: yes.. in a few minutes it will be practise
[10:46] <doko> thanks
[10:46] <fabbione> doko: is it just a random test to see if it builds, or is it know to fix the FTBFS?
[10:50] <jdong> SUCCESS :)
[10:50] <jdong> lol
[10:53] <jdong> I just put the installation and removal code in postinst/postrm... is that a no-no? ;)
[10:54] <fabbione> doko: ??
[10:55] <xTina> Is the daily installer from yesterday (Oct. 5) the same as the RC? I tested the automated installs in our labs just last night with that one, but I definitely would test the RC again if it isn't the same.
[10:55] <doko> fabbione: AFAIK, the build failure is in java related code, therefore the retry without java
[10:55] <fabbione> doko: ok
[10:56] <doko> fabbione: maybe keep the build tree around
[10:56] <fabbione> doko: yes.. i am doing it in a dedicate chroot
[10:57] <jbailey> jordi: File a bug against the translator for bad LC_COLLATE implementation ;)
[10:59] <sistpoty> mdz: is the rescheduled TB-Meeting today?
[11:00] <jordi> jbailey: maybe it was a BUG IN HIS LOCALE DATA!
[11:00] <hunger> Hehe... The RC announcements are all over the web, but I can't spot it on www.ubuntu.com:-)
[11:00] <jbailey> jordi: See?  And if it was all in Rosetta...
[11:00] <jordi> haha
[11:00] <hunger> Good work, guys. Breezy is a really great distri!
[11:01] <jordi> "you've got mud on your face...", Queen music for our wrestling,
[11:01] <[-Jarod-] > i agree :)
[11:01] <mdz> sistpoty: no, I didn't hear back from anyone in time
[11:01] <sistpoty> mdz: ok, thanks
[11:02] <jbailey> jordi: It's as good as any I can think of. =)
[11:03] <jcohen85> jbailey, well, the last update has slowed my startup by 10 seconds. There's a delay when setting up the network that i never had before.
[11:03] <jbailey> jcohen85: I thought we agreed that you were never updating again? ;)
[11:03] <jcohen85> i didn't
[11:03] <jcohen85> from the previous update
[11:17] <fabbione> doko: ENABLE_JAVA is already off on sparc
[11:18] <fabbione> i can try to rebuild tho
[11:18] <fabbione> i didn't test it for a while
[11:18] <doko> if you do have the cpu time ...
[11:19] <fabbione> doko: i will make space..
[11:19] <fabbione> not that i have much given release is close
[11:33] <zyga_amd64> hi
[11:37] <Kamion> fabbione: ubuntu-desktop does not depend on either powermanagement-interface or oo.o2 on sparc
[11:38] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, we just verified that, but i can't understand why they get pulled in..
[11:38] <fabbione> or better.. by waht
[11:38] <fabbione> what
[11:38] <zyga_amd64> I've just installed RC for amd64
[11:38] <fabbione> in a chroot is ok.. not on install
[11:38] <ploum> jdub, can I annoy you with planet ?  (I just want a 1.0 tarball)
[11:38] <fabbione> there must be a difference that's triggering the problem
[11:38] <zyga_amd64> I don't know if that is a known issue but users-admin pretty much crashes all the time
[11:39] <Kamion> (as per elsewhere, it's due to lack of architecture-specific Task: headers)
[11:40] <Kamion> zyga_amd64: I thought mvo fixed that today; have you tried upgrading to current?)
[11:41] <mvo> zyga_amd64: do you run 1.4.0-0ubuntu10?
[11:44] <doko> mdz: I think I found all bugs, for building and using OOo2 help. but I need another OOo2 upload (followed by an OOo2-amd64 upload)
[11:46] <mdz> doko: send me a diff, please
[11:47] <mdz> doko: this would enable help on all architectures?
[11:48] <doko> mdz: yes
[11:48] <g14> Will gnome integrate any of the patches for improving gnome startup time?
[11:49] <tseng> in 2.14 they will surely have a look
[11:50] <g14> tseng: One of the patches got rejected, because it breaks backwards compatibility for people who have gnome < 2.6 installed side by side with newer gnome
[11:50] <g14> But that one improves startup time for me personally about 6 seconds
[11:50] <tseng> sorry, you'll have to take that up with the gnome developer in question
[11:50] <Kamion> I think you'd be better off asking GNOME upstream directly about what they plan to do
[11:50] <Kamion> we're just another distributor, albeit one with fairly close connections to GNOME
[11:51] <g14> It doesnt make sense for gnome to distribute it if it breaks backwards compat
[11:51] <g14> But ubuntu doesnt have a problem with backwards compat
[11:51] <g14> So why not?
[11:52] <g14> Im not trying to flame, breezy is amazing
[11:52] <Kamion> I don't understand that claim, since people NFS-mount home directories between different distributions quite frequently
[11:53] <g14>  gconf-merge-tree /usr/local/gnome/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults
[11:53] <Kamion> in any case, these patches only seem to have been produced well after the stage in our release process when we could have considered integrating it for breezy
[11:53] <HiddenWolf> Oh My. JaneW, did you just about double the size of the wiki, or what? ;)
[11:53] <g14> gnome < 2.6 doesn't support merged configuration files
[11:53] <g14> No, for dapper
[11:53] <g14> Not breezy
[11:53] <fabbione> g14: wait to ask after breezy is released :)
[11:53] <tseng> file a bug in a few weeks :)
[11:53] <Kamion> we haven't started dapper development yet; we are concentrating very hard on getting breezy out the door right now.
[11:53] <fabbione> we are all a bit overloaded
[11:53] <g14> understood
[11:58] <fabbione> night everybody
[12:01] <HiddenWolf> can anyone braindump on those spec-pages?
[12:01] <HiddenWolf> wiki


[07:06] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:09] <diplo> Morning all
[07:14] <knightwise> morning peeps
[07:30] <brobostigon> morning knightwise and diplo
[07:59] <foobarry> /join #europe
[08:03] <diplo> :P
[08:03] <diplo> !politics
[08:03] <diplo> :D
[08:04] <SuperMatt> 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🇪🇺
[08:11] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:21]  * awilkins thinks he will Remain... within the channel
[08:35] <diplo> :P
[08:36] <foobarry> justin
[08:44] <diplo> bieber?
[08:52] <MooDoo> take your politics elswhere :p
[08:56]  * Seeker` votes for more chocolate
[08:57] <zmoylan-pi> vote chocolate hobnob, vote mug of tea
[08:57]  * popey pops out to vote
[09:01] <diplo> !vote chocolate!
 Sorry, I don't know anything about 'vote chocolate!'
[09:01] <diplo> :D
[09:01] <zmoylan-pi> !up the kitkats \o/
[09:02] <foobarry> actually voted 2 weeks ago
[09:03] <foobarry> which makes this whole horrible thing more unpleasant
[09:03] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy EU Referendum Day! 😃
[09:03]  * diplo just hasn't had telly on, although Europens on G+ are saying more about it than UK people i follow
[09:04] <diplo> And I try to keep away from FB as much as poss
[09:06] <zmoylan-pi> also the anniversary of the battle of plassey when in 1757 clive of india beat up some locals...
[09:12] <MooDoo> I'm old, so I'll vote non of the abovr
[09:13] <zmoylan-pi> no to chocolate??
[09:13] <MooDoo> no to snything lol
[09:13] <knightwise> Mate vm running in a tiny window on my Surface Pro in Win 10 :)
[09:13] <knightwise> Best integration of the Linux Shell in Windows you can want :Ã
[09:13] <zmoylan-pi> can't stop the linux mal
[09:14] <TwistedLucidity> What's all the "Vote chocolate" about?
[09:14]  * TwistedLucidity is out of the loop and chocolate is vital to life
[09:16] <diplo> Exactly, so vote to keep chocolate :)
[09:17] <JamesTait> Remember the story about the Belgians wanting us to rename our chocolate to "vegetable-based confectionary" or something, because they claimed the cocoa content was too low?  I assume it's a reference to that.
[09:17] <TwistedLucidity> But is that in or out?
[09:17] <zmoylan-pi> vegelate
[09:17] <TwistedLucidity> The UK doesn't make much good chocolate
[09:17] <zmoylan-pi> uk chocolate is poor, but also cheap, so plentiful
[09:17] <foobarry> milk chocolate is so meh
[09:18] <foobarry> except for eurpean ferrero rocher etc
[09:18] <zmoylan-pi> kinda how we all look down on american chocolate
[09:18] <knightwise> American chocolate is NOT chocolate
[09:18] <JamesTait> And beer.
[09:18] <foobarry> trying to decide if i prefer 70% cocao or 85%, i think 70% i slightly nicer
[09:18] <zmoylan-pi> it's also a small % of cockroach
[09:18] <TwistedLucidity> knightwise: Candlewax
[09:18] <diplo> French beer is sooooo much smoother than the same branded stuff here
[09:19] <TwistedLucidity> Beer + Picon = Win
[09:20] <JamesTait> I had a bar of 85% G&B here in the office with me when we had the hot weather a few weeks ago.   (Theobromine poisoning)
[09:26] <awilkins> Had some Green and Blacks last week
[09:26] <awilkins> COuldn't decide whether Mondelez have ruined it or no
[09:26] <awilkins> Will have to get some of the Milk and see
[09:27] <awilkins> The ginger has too many wee bits in it to gauge mouth feel properly
[09:27] <TwistedLucidity> LD50 is ~1g/kg; so 80g for an 80kg human. Dark chocolate can have >14g/kg. So you'd need to eat ~5.7kg of the good stuff to be at risk.
[09:28] <diplo> Can tell what sort of channel we're in when you get answers like that
[09:28] <diplo> Albeit we *are* on IRC :)
[09:29] <TwistedLucidity> The TDLO is only 26mg/kg though; so 2.08g for an 80kg human. Or about 140g. That's doable.
[09:29] <TwistedLucidity> I said chocolate was important
[09:30] <TwistedLucidity> That and cheese
[09:30] <zmoylan-pi> so if you sent someone 20kg of chocolate would that be considered a crime...
[09:31] <TwistedLucidity> Only if they ate it all at once
[09:31] <TwistedLucidity> If you want to kill someone with 50kg of chocolate, just hit them with it
[09:31] <TwistedLucidity> s/50/20
[09:32] <zmoylan-pi> death by kitkat...
[09:32] <zmoylan-pi> no wait that has wafer... death by wispa
[09:32] <TwistedLucidity> That has air and not enough cocoa
[09:32] <foobarry> i think only dogs suffers from theobromides
[09:32] <zmoylan-pi> death by bournville
[09:33] <zmoylan-pi> cats too
[09:33] <foobarry> my dog ate 2 easter eggs and cost us 250£ to get stomach pumpage
[09:33] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: No, humans too. We can tolerate *much* more though
[09:33] <TwistedLucidity> Onions, grapes...it's a wonder dogs have made it this far!
[09:33] <zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine_poisoning#In_other_species
[09:33] <popey> \o/ voted
[09:33] <popey> Nothing like a brisk walk to the voting booth in the rain
[09:33] <zmoylan-pi> throwing up and pooping the rest clears out a lot of bad stuff
[09:35] <TwistedLucidity> I shall be voting at luncheon
[09:37] <MooDoo> tonight for me
[09:38] <foobarry> my dog keeps picking up bird feathers. the other day i had to extract one from the back of his throat like a guy putting his head inside a crocs mouth
[09:38] <foobarry> the last little end bit was visible and i retrieved it
[09:39] <foobarry> he just loves those feathers
[09:39] <TwistedLucidity> "LEAVE!"
 She has no "leave", yet
[09:40] <foobarry> DROP DROP DROP
[09:40] <foobarry> you have to swap with something of equal or higher value
[09:40] <foobarry> like a sausage
[09:40] <foobarry> or chicken
[09:40] <zmoylan-pi> or harsh language
[09:40] <TwistedLucidity> The mutt was a street dog and would hoover up anything. One of the first things he learnt was "leave"
[09:41] <Seeker`> popey: do we get to blame you when everything goes wrong?
[09:41] <foobarry> worst thing it cities is fried chicken
[09:41] <foobarry> bones
[09:41] <TwistedLucidity> Seeker`: Only if he voted the wrong way
[09:41] <Seeker`> TwistedLucidity: I'm not sure that comes in to it
[09:41] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Yup. Why people can't use a bin....
[09:41] <TwistedLucidity> Seeker`: LOL
[09:41] <foobarry> because teenager
[09:41] <foobarry> and chavs
[09:41] <popey> Seeker`: sure
[09:42] <Seeker`> popey for president?
[09:42] <popey> I'd rather "remain" in my current role thanks Seeker`
[09:42] <foobarry> if REMAIN wins then farage shold go to the tower for the division he has caused this country
[09:43] <foobarry> or send him back home
[09:43] <Seeker`> popey: remaining in your current role sounds like a good idea
[09:44] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: The fact his wife is German always cracks me up
[09:44] <foobarry> racists are full of contradictions
[09:44] <foobarry> like that EDL guy who had a black wife
[09:44] <TwistedLucidity> Yeah, I think he likes the "right kind" of immigrant
[09:44] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Whut?
[09:44] <popey> or the people who are immigrants who say "close the border, no more immigrants"
[09:44] <popey> "I'm okay though"
[09:45] <foobarry> that happens every day on the train
[09:45] <foobarry> move down the carriage, let me on. when they are on they get to next stop and tell the people on platform to F off, we're full
[09:45] <foobarry> lifeboat mentality
[09:45] <Seeker`> popey: you mean like 99% of the people in the US who say that?
[09:46] <TwistedLucidity> We're all immigrants if you go back far enough. That's what I'd like to know, where do they draw the line?
[09:46] <popey> heh
[09:46] <diplo> The last years is my ffeeling TwistedLucidity
[09:46] <diplo> 2 years*
[09:46] <popey> "since I got in"
[09:46] <diplo> heh
[09:46] <popey> i think is the benchmark
[09:47] <popey> foobarry: totally right
[09:48] <TwistedLucidity> Have a revolution, make me your leader for life and I'll ensure I'm fine.
[09:48] <popey> Be interesting to see what the BBC / YouGov / Whoever exit poll at 10pm will be.
[09:48] <TwistedLucidity>  /\ At least I'm honest
[09:49] <zmoylan-pi> vote for zmoylan-pi i'll ban mondays...
[09:49] <foobarry> i'll ban eastenders
[09:49] <MooDoo> how many people vote with pencils ;)
[09:49] <TwistedLucidity> You can be vice-leader for life. foobarry can me culture secretary for life
[09:49] <zmoylan-pi> and bring in a voted of the island once a year to banish the person who gets the most votes...
[09:49] <Seeker`> popey: it'll be more interesting to see if the polls have been as wrong as the general election ones
[09:50] <foobarry> a few weeks ago i though t65/35 due to not knowing anyone voting brexit. certainly nobody decent
[09:50] <foobarry> the polls have surprised me
[09:51] <Seeker`> I've seen people saying that they'll vote to leave because they don't like Cameron
[09:51] <Seeker`> and they think that leaving will get him to step down. Worst reason to vote ever.
[09:51] <TwistedLucidity> I know maybe 1 or 2 people voting Leave, everyone else is Remain. There again, most of the folks I know are highly educated and in IT
[09:51] <foobarry> the rule of referenda seems to tend towards 50/50
[09:51] <foobarry> as time goes on
[09:52] <foobarry> general elections are good for that, not generational referenda
[09:54] <popey> https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisstokelwalker/faster-than-a-speeding-ballot?utm_term=.ye3w5YYyVq#.orKr9JJ8zM is a fun read
[09:58] <Myrtti> I've heard of someone saying that they voted out because they want to see Boris as a pm, because 'it would be fun'
[09:58] <foobarry> eejits
[09:59] <TwistedLucidity> So....someone just to the right of Atilla the Hun would be "fun"?
[09:59] <foobarry> its not the vehicle to do any of that
[10:00] <Myrtti> UK election system fogs up the meaning of election to so many
[10:00] <TwistedLucidity> We had the chance to fix it, but the odds were stacked against and the public choked
[10:00] <Myrtti> yup
[10:03] <Myrtti> I'm just worried that outside EU Tories or whatever idiots are in at the time are allowing themselves to be led into bad trading deals because there's no oversight
[10:03] <Myrtti> like pigs to slaughter
[10:04] <Myrtti> TTIP isn't much loved in any EU country as far as I can tell
[10:11] <foobarry> i stand by my statement that i don't know any decent people voting out
[10:12] <TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Apart from the UK. I'm pretty sure the Tories love it because their paymasters tell them to
[10:12] <Myrtti> yeah
[10:12] <foobarry> the EU does good work against mega corp anti competition too
[10:13] <foobarry> although i'm not sure where the $500M MS fine went to
[10:13] <Myrtti> who knows, maybe that's the real reason for the referendum
[10:14] <Myrtti> to get UK out from European oversight and to be ripped to shreds by multinational companies for their shareholders profit
[10:15] <TwistedLucidity> Well, that's the plan for the NHS
[10:15] <TwistedLucidity> So that £140m per week we save will go to some company from the BVI
[10:15] <Myrtti> anyway, this is politics and I should know better
[10:15] <TwistedLucidity> Surely we're allowed a pass today of all days?
[10:16] <Myrtti> I wish I could vote :-(
[10:17] <TwistedLucidity> The g/f gets all the In/Out stuff addressed to her, she can't vote. I, who can vote, don't get sent a thing. Odd.
[10:22] <popey> my daughter had a debate at school a few weeks ago about it
[10:22] <popey> they had to take sides, do research and then debate it.
[10:22] <popey> she really enjoyed it
[10:34] <Seeker`> popey: which side did she take?
[10:39] <popey> Seeker`: remain
[11:10] <TwistedLucidity> popey: Good, and thanks
[11:11] <TwistedLucidity> And I totally misread that; sorry
[11:11] <popey> I did wonder
[11:59] <TwistedLucidity> The deed is done, now the trepidation can begin
[12:01] <diplo> Me too, leave the TV off tonight, wake up to whatever has happened tomorrow
[12:02] <foobarry> is the football having a day off?
[12:02] <popey> awww, I'm staying up to watch the nonsense
[12:02] <popey> fun thursday night telly
[12:02] <foobarry> really? speculation and garbage all night from numpties?
[12:02] <diplo> Really?!? It drives me insane
[12:02] <diplo> Yeah exactly how I feel foobarry
[12:02] <foobarry> 1 min after polls closed "well we don't know the result and can't change it now, how do you think it went"
[12:03] <foobarry> i've only seen 1 thing on TV or internet about it
[12:03] <foobarry> i've ignored it all but watched newsnight last night because my friend was on the panel
[12:05] <DJones> foobarry: 2 days of from the football
[12:05] <foobarry> :(
[12:06] <foobarry> at least england are still in it
[12:06] <foobarry> and wales
[12:06] <DJones> And Ireland & Northern Ireland
[12:06] <foobarry> what pos did NI finish?
[12:06] <DJones> I think 3rd, but got through as a better loser
[12:07] <foobarry> i watched SWE BEL yesterday, surprised to see ROI beat ITA
[12:07] <DJones> Wales play NI
[12:07] <foobarry> heh
[12:07] <foobarry> 20 yrs of quake
[12:08] <DJones> So at least 1 UK team will be in the next round
[12:08] <foobarry> arsene wenger predicted a good showing from wales in this tournament, he's been proved very right
[12:08] <DJones> Wonder if the footballers have voted by post, or will they allcome home if the vote is "Out"
[12:09] <foobarry> judging by all their tattoos, i think they would all vote the same way, in a herd
[12:12] <foobarry> they even all have the same hair
[12:14] <SuperMatt> !football
[12:15] <SuperMatt> darn, the bot doesn't recognise that
[12:16] <foobarry> its lunchtime so its job hunting time
[12:19] <foobarry> experiencing post-pastie regret
[12:19] <foobarry> pasty
[12:27] <SuperMatt> surely there's no such thing?
[12:28] <foobarry> feel all greasy and meh
[12:28] <foobarry> need an apple to cleanse my palate
[12:29] <SuperMatt> or maybe some ginger
[12:33] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Whut? ROI beat ITA? 8-O
[12:34] <TwistedLucidity> Iceland Vs Hengalund will be fun
[12:40] <DJones> Go Wales :)
[12:52] <TwistedLucidity> Or, as the T-shirts North of the border say "A.B.E. Anyone But England" :-P
[13:04] <popey> yay, yougov survey o'clock
[13:06] <popey> http://imgur.com/KF4ijXc
[13:06] <daftykins> :D
[13:06] <daftykins> it doesn't go high enough!
[13:07] <daftykins> perhaps the question should be flipped in this modern age; "How often do you not use the internet?"
[13:24] <Seeker`> never not use the internet
[13:55] <dwatkins> "whilst I'm conscious"
[13:56] <dwatkins> "sometimes whilst I'm not..."
[13:56] <daftykins> nothing worse than that sleep IRCing
[14:19] <dwatkins> I was apparently laughing in my sleep the other night, perhaps I'd had a dream about something I found on reddit.
[14:48] <foobarry> my dog started humping in his sleep
[15:05] <TwistedLucidity> Nice
[15:07] <brmbrmcar> ooh
[15:16] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p03xpwbw/professor-green-dangerous-dogs <- Very interesting
[17:19] <directhex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRxcSNaVCPA
[17:21] <popey> haha
[17:23] <popey> thats excellent
[17:23] <popey> can't believe I've never seen it
[17:28] <popey> "The Steam Store is experiencing some heavy load right now. Please try again later."
[17:28] <popey> fany that
[17:29] <daftykins> if only they had preempted a sale they pick the date for and somehow beefed up a nice HA site
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> Ooh the new Citation Needed episode.. about "a Pope Infestation"
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> popey: ^
[17:59] <popey> hah
[17:59] <popey> not seen that podcast
[17:59]  * popey adds it to podbird
[18:01] <MartijnVdS> it's a youtube series
[18:01] <MartijnVdS> or do they do audio versions too?
[18:01] <popey> seems like it
[18:01] <foobarry> just realised the neighbours theme tune is actually about the referendum
[18:02] <zmoylan-pi> i thought it was about making the rest of the world suffer for all those convict jokes... :-P
[18:03] <foobarry> spent the whole evening last night moving to a new ISA. tedious
[20:23] <diddledan_> evenin
[20:25] <daftykins> hello chap, how goes it?
[20:25] <diddledan_> not bad ta
[20:25] <diddledan_> heading home tomorra
[20:25] <diddledan_> wales will have to suffer my absence
[20:26] <daftykins> the valleys will not be the same, i'm sure
[20:26] <diddledan_> aye
[20:26] <diddledan_> they are lush tho
[20:26] <daftykins> my trip there for the bike park gave me the feeling it's a tough place to find work in? that anywhere near the truth?
[20:26] <diddledan_> yeah I believe so
[20:27] <diddledan_> especially in the north and the south. and the bits inbetween
[20:27] <diddledan_> WHEEEE
[20:28] <diddledan_> daftykins: do the islands get to vote in this eu nonsense?
[20:29] <daftykins> wholly separate government, i don't know if anyone would get refused if they were in England... i don't know if they'd be checking ID or what have you
[20:29] <daftykins> we're already outside the EU so it probably wouldn't fit
[20:29] <diddledan_> I don't actually know what the political landscape is between the british and the islands
[20:30] <daftykins> to be blunt, we're the UK gov's whipping targets
[20:31] <diddledan_> still, at least you're thought-of :-p
[20:31] <daftykins> any deal is bound to make us suffer one way or another :P
[20:31] <diddledan_> yeah. sucky nuts.
[20:31] <daftykins> haha, only for what we might be doing wrong... i had to calm myself when i saw some idiot parroting the 'tax haven channel islands' rubbish the other day
[20:32] <zmoylan-pi> daftykins can't light his cigars with £50 notes anymore and has had to cut back to using fivers... :-P
[20:32] <daftykins> good ol' Sark over there (*points*) wasn't long ago still feudal :)
[20:32] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: preci... hey wait a minute!
[20:33] <daftykins> :D
[20:33] <diddledan_> wait, they're not feudal anymore?
[20:33] <daftykins> don't think so
[20:33] <diddledan_> ooh. progress
[20:33] <daftykins> 'tis a simple land, over thar :)
[20:34] <daftykins> gotta get yourself booked into a hotel for the annual sheep race!
[20:34] <zmoylan-pi> no more watery bints handing out swords? :-)
[20:34] <diddledan_> that silly woman would give a sword to any tom frank or harry
[20:35] <daftykins> i'd imagine they can still be punished with a thin cane in local law, shuold they step uot
[20:35] <zmoylan-pi> but the violence inherent in the system hopefully is still there... :-P
[20:35] <daftykins> out, ugh it really is well past new keyboard time
[20:35] <diddledan_> I mean Arthur of all people. why should he get one?
[20:35] <popey> not long now brexiters!
[20:36] <popey> welp, day one of steam sale, only bought one game
[20:36] <popey> I call that success
[20:36] <diddledan_> popey: I hope not
[20:36]  * diddledan_ wants to be firmly inside
[20:36] <popey> we'll soon see
[20:36] <popey> I predict the BBC will do an exit poll and it will be accurate
[20:36] <zmoylan-pi> was the game minecraft and you intend to build functional versions of all the other games in it? :-D
[20:37] <daftykins> pixel by pixel
[20:38] <diddledan_> I like pixies
[20:38] <zmoylan-pi> then build a functional minecraft in minecraft and get a refund...
[20:38] <diddledan_> perhaps there should be a market for selling creations made in minecraft
[20:38] <daftykins> and a free copy of Inception on blurry
[20:39] <diddledan_> then we need a steam inside minecraft
[20:43] <diddledan_> isn't it interesting how the word inception has changed in meaning from "creation" to "recursion" since the movie?
[20:47] <daftykins> indeed!
[20:51] <zmoylan-pi> words change all the time... i have one ocd mate who is slightly upset that the dictionary definition of literally is no longer literal...
[20:51] <zmoylan-pi> that and they removed gullible from the dictionary...
[20:54] <daftykins> >:)
[20:54] <daftykins> i bet the Welsh dictionary is a delight
[20:55] <zmoylan-pi> hard to get past L in it...
[20:56] <daftykins> must be costly to print :)
[20:57] <zmoylan-pi> they leave it blank after the L's and no one has noticed so far...
[21:00] <popey> booo
[21:00] <popey> no exit poll
[21:03] <zmoylan-pi> might need an hour or two for last numbers to be punched into lotus 123 and fiddled with...
[21:05] <daftykins> db errors fixed by hand ;D
[21:05] <zmoylan-pi> damn that bobby drop tables!!
[21:06] <daftykins> diddledan_: Louis is the man - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM6EO7_5cho
[21:07] <zmoylan-pi> guardian has a page ready for when the numbers start coming in... http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-live-results-and-analysis
[21:07] <diddledan_> popey: what happened to it?
[21:11] <diddledan_> gibraltar got to vote, but the channel islands don't!
[21:12] <diddledan_> they had turnout of 84% apparently on the rock
[21:12] <zmoylan-pi> they'd just eat the polling cards...
[21:15] <daftykins> :D
[21:15] <daftykins> http://guernseypress.com/news/2016/06/23/islanders-stock-up-on-euros-before-referendum/
[21:15] <diddledan_> daftykins: are you all morons as zmoylan-pi suggests?
[21:15] <daftykins> hahaha
[21:17] <zmoylan-pi> i didn't suggest they were morons, just hungry...
[21:18] <daftykins> i thought that was a pizza i just ate
[21:18] <diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: you're backtracking now :-p
[21:18] <diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: you should have a stronger backbone :-D
[21:19]  * diddledan_ giggles
[21:21] <daftykins> i'm still watching the jagermeister repair
[21:22] <diddledan_> swapping devices. brb
[21:24] <diddledan> Moo
[21:24] <daftykins> wouldn't want the mac to see the repair video, very wise
[21:45] <ali1234> will 16.04.1 release before 15.10 goes out of support?
[21:46] <diddledan> It's supposed to
[21:46] <diddledan> I think?
[21:46] <ali1234> i ask because i have a mix of 14.04 and 15.10 machines and i want to upgrade them all at the same time
[21:46] <ali1234> 16.04.1 is supposed to release on july 21st
[21:47] <daftykins> that does remind me that i feel there was a time where there was a delay between o0 not sure if i'm imagining it though
[21:47] <ali1234> well 13.10 has 2 years support didn't it?
[21:47] <ali1234> had*
[21:48] <ali1234> no, it didnt
[21:48] <ali1234> 13.10 EOL on july 17th
[21:48] <ali1234> 2014
[21:49] <ali1234> 14.04.1 released on july 23rd
[21:49] <daftykins> yeah there's the gap
[21:49] <ali1234> yeah
[21:49] <ali1234> that's mildly annoying
[21:49] <daftykins> seem to remember some #ubuntu types whinging at the time, i suggested many a refund be requested those few days
[21:49] <daftykins> ;)
[21:50] <ali1234> one time i asked if i could buy single user support that would actually guarantee my bugs get fixed, or at least someone assigned to them
[21:51] <daftykins> how'd that go?
[21:51] <ali1234> they said no?
[21:51] <daftykins> d'aww, i don't have a clue on the paid support options from Canonical
[21:52] <diddledan> Shut up and take my money
[21:54] <ali1234> they have paid support options... but i don't need that kind of support
[21:54] <ali1234> "have you tried turning it off and then on again"
[21:54] <diddledan> Ooh, good idea
[21:54]  * diddledan tries
[21:56] <zmoylan-pi> but because it's linux you do it backwards by turning it on and off again
[21:56] <diddledan> Nope it's still broken
[21:57] <diddledan> Wait, it's supposed to display an image?!
[21:57] <diddledan> Ooooooh
[22:01] <diddledan> Has anyone won, yet?
[22:12] <awilkins> No returns yet
[22:38] <popey> haha, unsurprising 19k of 20k votes in Gibralta are remain
[22:39] <czajkowski> only anbother 381 more to declare :)
[22:46] <diddledan> Newcastle about to declare
[22:47] <zmoylan-pi> they prefer wine over ale
[22:47] <diddledan> Lots of thumbs are being twiddled right now
[22:47] <daftykins> i'm not fussy, i'll have a small wale please
[22:47] <diddledan> Whale?
[22:48] <zmoylan-pi> mmmm, battered whale and chips...
[22:49] <diddledan> Poor Whale getting battered. That's animal cruelty
[22:49] <diddledan> Call the RSPCA
[22:50] <zmoylan-pi> it was coming right at us...
[22:50] <diddledan> I'm swipey typey using SwiftKey. Funky
[22:51] <diddledan> Gotta love tablet IRC
[22:52] <daftykins> tough dose to swallow ;)
[22:57] <diddledan> Aye
[23:00] <diddledan> Close
[23:01] <popey> here we go
[23:01] <popey> 129,072 / remain 65,404 / leave 63,598
[23:01] <popey> wow, thats stupid close
[23:02] <czajkowski> very very close
[23:02] <czajkowski> 49.3% leave 50.7% remain - not much in it
[23:03] <Filbert> need to change my host mask...
[23:03] <Filbert> lest I get burned at the stake
[23:03]  * popey gets the matches
[23:03] <czajkowski> Orkney also are remain
[23:04] <czajkowski> but still not a massive remain there
[23:04] <Filbert> no cameras in Orkney
[23:04] <Filbert> they're all in bed
[23:04] <diddledan> Silly delay on the TV from Sunderland
[23:06] <daftykins> my folks asked if i want a 17" CRT kept, from their place :D
[23:06] <diddledan> Err
[23:06] <daftykins> that'd be a blast from the past!
[23:06] <diddledan> Methinks burn it with fire
[23:07] <daftykins> it'd implode!
[23:07] <czajkowski> John Curtis is not seeing the funny side of the chatter on the BBC
[23:12] <popey> hah, i like the meter at the top of http://www.theguardian.com/uk
[23:12] <Filbert> getting rid of the miserable woman on the beeb
[23:13] <Filbert> the woman who can't do 382-3
[23:13] <czajkowski> angry lady is back on
[23:13] <Filbert> good man dave, pointing out her inability to do maths
[23:17] <daftykins> there'll be a backlash later on social notworking
[23:18] <czajkowski> hmm
[23:18] <popey> 134,400 / remain 51,930 / leave 82,394
[23:19] <popey> hm
[23:19] <popey> who are all these imbeciles who mark both boxes?
[23:19] <czajkowski> numpties
[23:20] <Filbert> people deliberately spoiling the ballot?
[23:20] <popey> people are weird
[23:20] <Filbert> hence we have people voting leave ;)
[23:20] <popey> well indeed
[23:21] <Filbert> I wanted to go to bed :(
[23:21] <popey> think i might and put telly on in bed
[23:21] <czajkowski> Pound has already had a knock from the Dollar :(
[23:22] <Filbert> big uptick in the pound and FTSE today
[23:22] <Filbert> much volatility tomorrow I suspect
[23:23] <Filbert> wow, just seen... pound taken a huge knock
[23:23] <zmoylan-pi> remain it does well, exit and it tanks
[23:26] <czajkowski> grand job, at least hotel check out tomorrow is at 12, so I can in fact stay up all night to watch the results
[23:27] <popey> where u?
[23:27] <czajkowski> london - waterloo in fact
[23:27] <czajkowski> speaking tomorrow at an event
[23:30] <diddledan> Wow the pound is being pummelled
[23:31] <Filbert> czajkowski: https://dwq4do82y8xi7.cloudfront.net/x/YWZZA5Ie/
[23:32] <czajkowski> really do we actually need to have the news during this, nothing has changed and we're all watching the results come in so covering them again seems rather pointless
[23:32] <czajkowski> Filbert: doesn't look goo d
[23:34] <Filbert> yeah they need to fill the airtime some how
[23:34] <Filbert> only so long that david can carry on without suffering a stroke
[23:34] <daftykins> yay for the €35 on my desk XD
[23:34] <Filbert> (seriously though, news is a good way to let the presenters have a bog/cigarette/etc. break)
[23:34] <popey> dimblebot is a machine
[23:34] <diddledan> daftykins: is that your contingency fund?
[23:35] <czajkowski> dimblebot?
[23:35] <daftykins> diddledan: yep, i shall buy a kingdom
[23:35] <popey> how can you not know dimblebot!
[23:35] <popey> https://twitter.com/dimblebot
[23:35] <daftykins> not everyone twatters!
[23:36] <diddledan> Twits
[23:36] <ahayzen> omg the website http://dimblebot.com/
[23:37] <popey> worth following during Question Time
[23:38] <Filbert> what's this mad woman on about?
[23:38] <Filbert> good on you bbc, not showing what the mad ukip woman is talking about
[23:39] <popey> never seen a ukipper who didnt come across as a loon when pressed
[23:39] <popey> carswell is about as sober as they get
[23:39] <Filbert> fair point
[23:40] <Filbert> crumbs, now it's the academic that makes other academics look like proles
[23:40] <czajkowski> this guy looks like death warmed up
[23:40] <diddledan> I've got some Welsh bit currently
[23:40] <popey> nice blue rinse that chap has
[23:41] <Filbert> channel 4 logo!
[23:41] <Filbert> ah, alas not
[23:41] <czajkowski> the referrendum looksjust reminds me of Google
[23:41] <Filbert> oh, a forrin person
[23:41] <czajkowski> *logo
[23:42] <Filbert> she doesn't sound polish
[23:42] <czajkowski> Filbert: well neither do I!
[23:42] <Filbert> it's very confusing, all these people with strange surnames but non-matching accents
[23:42] <LauraFautley> Good Day
[23:42] <Filbert> no.
[23:42] <popey> wat
[23:43] <popey> cztab no longer works
[23:43] <popey> this will not do
[23:43] <diddledan> I'm still getting used to your new surname LauraFautley
[23:43] <Filbert> popey: she did this on the other network a few days ago, it's rather annoying
[23:43] <Filbert> diddledan: nor am I!
[23:43] <LauraFautley> Filbert: your face is annoying
[23:43] <LauraFautley> popey: it confuses me at times as it's similar to Filbert sister first name
[23:43] <LauraFautley> keep thinking she;s doing similar stuff!
[23:44] <LauraFautley> popey: lau tab works
[23:45] <popey> bah
[23:45] <popey> we dont like change
[23:45] <LauraFautley> lol
[23:45] <diddledan> Czajkowski is too recognisable to lose :-p
[23:45] <LauraFautley> bah
[23:45] <czajkowski> are you all happy now
[23:45] <diddledan> :-p
[23:46] <Filbert> much better
[23:46] <Filbert> hm, I have run out of scotch
[23:46] <Filbert> (well, this bottle...)
[23:46] <diddledan> Drunkard
[23:46] <czajkowski> Filbert: try the birthdat port!
[23:46] <Filbert> nah
[23:46] <Filbert> its not a port sort of evening
[23:46] <popey> hah
[23:46] <czajkowski> Filbert: honey mead?
[23:46] <popey> i had half a bottle of port earlier
[23:46] <czajkowski> or the new gin
[23:47] <czajkowski> do not touch my honey cider!
[23:47] <popey> ooh, milliband
[23:47] <popey> pass the bacon sarnies
[23:47] <czajkowski> his mouth just moves weirdly
[23:47] <Filbert> popey: marginally more forgivable than half a bottle of scotch!
[23:47] <diddledan> You'll drunkards
[23:47] <Filbert> at least I'm being patriotic (sort of)
[23:47] <diddledan> Spellcheck
[23:47] <popey> smashing cheese grommit
[23:48] <diddledan> Was supposed to be ya'll
[23:48]  * Filbert remembers he has work tomorrow :/
[23:48] <Filbert> but depending on the result, perhaps not for much longer...
[23:48] <popey> hah
[23:48] <popey> i mean :(
[23:48] <czajkowski> :o
[23:49] <czajkowski> Filbert: ok you cna stay at home and tend to the pets and do the housework so
[23:49] <Filbert> hmm
[23:49] <Filbert> no.
[23:49] <popey> house husband?
[23:49] <Filbert> I'll move to Dublin
[23:49] <Filbert> with my new found citizenship
[23:49] <czajkowski> Filbert: you need me to move there with you to get that and I'm not budging from here, I've invaded and planted my flag!
[23:50] <Filbert> I don't think I do - I just need to demonstrate that I've been there for 3 years
[23:50] <daftykins> hehe
[23:50] <czajkowski> http://bit.ly/28P310v  my slide for tomorrow!
[23:50] <Filbert> czajkowski: at least you got the flag the right way up!
[23:51] <czajkowski> Filbert: yes I do remember you saying something about the flag recently
[23:51] <Filbert> fat stripe top left
[23:52] <popey> https://twitter.com/darrenh1/status/746107541717934080
[23:52] <Filbert> popey: olde.
[23:52] <popey> oh
[23:53] <czajkowski> Swindon!
[23:53] <Filbert> here we go...
[23:53] <diddledan> K, I'm gonna have to get some sleep
[23:53] <czajkowski> diddledan: dont leave us!
[23:54] <czajkowski> wos didn't see that coming
[23:54] <Filbert> expected
[23:55] <Filbert> it's a shithole
[23:55] <daftykins> diddledan: back to the grind 'pon the morrow?
[23:55] <Filbert> (sorry to any Swindonites here)
[23:55] <diddledan> Travelling tomorrow
[23:55] <daftykins> ah
[23:55] <daftykins> true, many Guernseys to be driven
[23:56] <diddledan> :-D
[23:56] <daftykins> gl sir!


[09:40] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples. critters and everything else
[10:49] <waltman> Morning
[21:34] <waltman> With Zesty due out in 2 days, I'm surprised at how little chatter there's been about it. Are these non-lts releases pretty routine at this point?
[21:34] <waltman> I've never updated an ubuntu version before. Does it just install a bunch of new packages, or is there more of an install to it?
[21:36] <rmg51> more of an install
[21:36] <rmg51> updates everything
[21:36] <waltman> hopefully it won't also break everything :)
[21:37] <rmg51> removes stuff that's no longer needed
[21:37] <rmg51> it has been known to happen